The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/von.ebersdorf.johannes/usenet/2009/v.ebersdorf.200901


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:51 EST 2009
Article: 1975100 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: Auschwitz-Birkenau: Layman's Guide (1/2)
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:06:34 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg

Nizkor is junk history and pretty transparent propaganda. It really
isn't worth the bother to click on it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:51 EST 2009
Article: 1975101 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: Auschwitz-Birkenau: Layman's Guide (1/2)
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:vmh9l4pjuh7qvu9slsnst5j1ba5h1r7h0l@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:56:53 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 24/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:mec4l4924tbmc8t54c1cfa2lt646bef1t7@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:02:10 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 23/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>news:Ud94l.318$%v1.279@edtnps83: 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everytime someone disagrees with them they will go on a search and
>>>>>> destroy mission do discredit anyone who does not eat the holocaust 
>>>saga
>>>>>> hook line and sinker. one just must take a good look at the show 
>>>trials
>>>>>> where they do an all out effort to discredit anyone that is in their
>>>>>> way. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Every time someone asks you a question you will call them names, 
>>>> 
>>>> The chief name-callers on this newsgroup are the members of the local
>>>> holocaust™ lobby.
>>>
>>>That's true. ben hebe cramer, kosher cuny and daniel bernard most 
>>>certainly are the chief name callers.
>> 
>> That hasn't been my observation here.
>
>
>For you since obviously you are used to being called a cunt.

Actually no, that would be a first.  LOL
>
> Generally Ben and the others
>> respond to ad hominem attacks by McVey and consorts.
>
>
>Actually, you would be hard pressed to find any responses by the filth 
>mongers, cramer kc and bernard, that isn't an ad hominem
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Of course this has nothing to do with the general idiocy of kunt knoll.
>>>
>>>
>>> Anybody who expresses any doubt at all, even about
>>>> the most preposterous of the holocaust™ stories, is immediately
>>>> shouted down as a new Hitler, a Nazi, a denier, or whatever else they
>>>> can dredge up to call people.
>>>
>>>Interesting assertion. You seem to have a general antipathy to 
>responding 
>>>to criticism of your remarks. You also seem to have a very strong, one 
>>>would almost say racial, hatred of the Allies which you aren't adverse 
>to 
>>>repeating.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> I've seen this technique in use before, and I'm not impressed.
>>>
>>>No one is impressed by your groups use of this technique.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Various
>>>> insane homophobes regularly use the same techniques by immediately
>>>> branding any gay person as a "child molestor", even though all the
>>>> available statistics say otherwise.
>>>
>>>
>>>What you aren't addressing is the proclivity of your group, when pressed 
>>>into a corner, to project their perversions on others.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> The homophobic lobby is full of shit,
>>>
>>>Yet I do not recall ever seeing you telling this to cramer, kc or daniel 
>>>bernard when they bring it up. Do you have a problem telling them your 
>>>feelings?
>>>
>>> and so apparently is the holocaust™ lobby. Both lobbies are
>>>> running on empty, and hence need to resort to rhetoric and
>>>> intimidation to keep their nonsense upright.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, your group has been on empty so long, it has lost track of its 
>>>position
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>intimidate and knoll, but you never answer questions
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:ad6dnf_hxpIQYc3UnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:4950e1e3$0$4780$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  >
>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>message 
>>>>>>>>> news:494fa495$0$4789$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>>>>>>>>>I do not need one gord . While living in Nuremberg whe the show
>>>>>>>>>>>trial was on id did listening to it every day. What irks me the 
>>>most
>>>>>>>>>>>is when the accused wanted to give an explanatotion. The
>>>>>>>>>>>transmission was interrupted and we were allowed to the 
>religious
>>>>>>>>>>>service of the local Synagogue. You must also remember it was 
>the
>>>>>>>>>>>Germans who did pay for the rebuilding of the synagoe war time 
>by
>>>>>>>>>>>the allied. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As a former Nuremberger, You may also be familiar with this:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * The Nuremberg Laws were designed by Hitler to define the 
>status 
>>>of
>>>>>>>>>> Jews in Germany and to restrict them in political and social 
>life.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which was a very clever move, given the yids had all but 
>destroyed 
>>>>>>>>> Germany and had publicly stated that their goal was to finish the
>>>>>>>>> job. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From this I understand that You are not a denier of The Holocaust 
>>>but
>>>>>>>> a justifier of it, belonging to the group B of revisionists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Topi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the yids who have declared me to be a denier sunschein, simply 
>>>>>>> because I don't swallow the entire story wholesale.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lay off the vodkkka.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>
>>>BTW, I thought you had plonked me. Yet another failure of your computer 
>>>skills?
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:52 EST 2009
Article: 1975103 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:27:08 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <0ri9l4l1fn73102luv79c88e2q801mqpm4@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg

All you have to offer is propaganda drivel from nizkor. It just isn't
worth reading. I've seen all that crap before.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:52 EST 2009
Article: 1975104 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:54:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:Q%45l.974$%v1.164@edtnps83: 
>
>> They cannot effectively counter his measurements, so they attack him
>> personally. They have done this countless times before with other
>> people.
>
>
>Yes, mr skaliks, you attack others constantly.

Skaliks isn't on this newsgroup. Kindly put an end to this silly
nonsense if you want a reply, otherwise you'll have to wait for
Skaliks, and that will be a very long wait. He is never going to see
your message.

>
>
>> 
>> ; "please"  wrote in message 
>> news:gj2iis$6p2$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>> In article <0ri9l4l1fn73102luv79c88e2q801mqpm4@4ax.com>,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>
>>> [snippage]
>>>
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-
>belsen/images/b
>>> elsen01.jpg 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-
>belsen/images/b
>>> elsen02.jpg 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf
>>> -02.jpg 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//nordhausen/images/nord
>>> hausen-01.jpg 
>>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//buchenwald/images/buch
>>> enwald01.jpg 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:52 EST 2009
Article: 1975105 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <2ld4l49j0ahlkulinq2j8id864hpqgsggu@4ax.com>  <14j9l45ii52edc5lrsl748gl2bebpo8t2q@4ax.com> 
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:29:24 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <14j9l45ii52edc5lrsl748gl2bebpo8t2q@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 18:55:38 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
>
>> These guys are behind the times. The gassing story has long since
>> moved to two off-site farmhouses which are now conveniently torn down
>
>That is,  of course,  an utter and complete lie,  much like
>everything you post.  I thought that "Cramer" was the biggest
>liar here,  but you beat him hands down.

LOL

You're full of shit.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:53 EST 2009
Article: 1975106 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:30:41 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
 [ridiculous insanity crap snipped]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:53 EST 2009
Article: 1975107 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:13:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>You are the only one who believes in your nizkor organ. Who will you cheat 
>lie and extort next.

The whole concept of having the name nizkor, a paid propaganda site,
in the same line as "truth" or "fact" is preposterous.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:gj2jjg$vcv$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>   (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>>
>>   Deal with the facts,  please.  Thank you.
>>
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
>>
>>
>>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>
>>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>> death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>
>>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>> in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>
>>   
>>
>> RJ. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:53 EST 2009
Article: 1975108 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
 wrote:

>Yet you all too happily accept the mile high flames over the fire storms 
>of Dresden and Hamburg. LOL

Nobody has ever claimed "mile high flames" over either city, but those
were real atrocities that were very well documented by both the
victims and the perpetrators.

By contrast, the geysers of blood story makes even Alice in Wonderland
seem realistic by comparison.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:54 EST 2009
Article: 1975109 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli blockade forces Palestinians to suffer the consequences of their actions
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4e7bl4thbmbi802ds06i02ld87km4mj06n@4ax.com>
References: <5110a87e-0314-47e1-95be-495460e2137a@i18g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <5a171532-9978-4c81-ac32-90e6b61e1b3a@40g2000prx.googlegroups.com>     <6311bdb2-3848-48ec-a216-2c52999132fb@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <7I45l.969$%v1.425@edtnps83> 
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:22:46 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:7I45l.969$%v1.425@edtnps83: 
>
>> The Palestinians have no weapons to fight back.
>
>Really? The rockets that land in Israel must come from germany then.

That is highly doubtful, like most of the rest of your babble.

>
>
> I am very sure you
>> people will screw them long enough till they ere exterminated what will
>> your next line be.
>
>
>You are Jewish
>
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>> "dsharavi"  wrote in message 
>> news:6311bdb2-3848-48ec-a216-2c52999132fb@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> "Boedi...@isp.com"  wrote:
>>> The Gaza has always been Palestinian
>> 
>> "Always" here being approximately fifty years.
>> 
>>>and once was completely inhabited by The Philistines.
>> 
>> The Pleshtim, a contingent of the Sea Peoples, invaded and occupied
>> the coastal strip of southwestern Retenu (Canaan), which belonged to
>> Egypt, in the 12thC BCE. They were defeated by Israel, and eradicated
>> by Babylon in the 7thC BCE.
>> 
>>> The Philistine Delilah lived there when she was involved with >Samson.
>> 
>> If they existed.
>> 
>>> OTOH Abraham  was an Iraqi
>> 
>> There was no Iraq when Abraham existed.
>> 
>>> before he moved to Hebron. Abraham's eldest son is the
>>> father of the Muslims,
>> 
>> Wrong. Abraham's eldest son, the bastard Ishmael, was the father of
>> the Edomites and some northern Arabic tribes.
>> 
>>>that's why Muslims celebrate their holiday of
>>> Eid and slit the throats of all those poor sheep.
>> 
>> They would slit throats in any case.
>> 
>> Deborah
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:54 EST 2009
Article: 1975110 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holocaust deniers logic. What tells the DOGMA. 900 workers and a lot of jobs.
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On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:46:49 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

 [preposterous insanity crap deleted]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:55 EST 2009
Article: 1975178 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: Auschwitz-Birkenau: Layman's Guide (1/2)
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:05:26 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:rh6bl4145l7cc6ufqr30fmcskgq68j0kqm@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:vmh9l4pjuh7qvu9slsnst5j1ba5h1r7h0l@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:56:53 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 24/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>news:mec4l4924tbmc8t54c1cfa2lt646bef1t7@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:02:10 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 23/12/08"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>>>news:Ud94l.318$%v1.279@edtnps83: 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Everytime someone disagrees with them they will go on a search and
>>>>>>>> destroy mission do discredit anyone who does not eat the holocaust 
>>>>>saga
>>>>>>>> hook line and sinker. one just must take a good look at the show 
>>>>>trials
>>>>>>>> where they do an all out effort to discredit anyone that is in 
>their
>>>>>>>> way. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Every time someone asks you a question you will call them names, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The chief name-callers on this newsgroup are the members of the 
>local
>>>>>> holocaust™ lobby.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's true. ben hebe cramer, kosher cuny and daniel bernard most 
>>>>>certainly are the chief name callers.
>>>> 
>>>> That hasn't been my observation here.
>>>
>>>
>>>For you since obviously you are used to being called a cunt.
>> 
>> Actually no, that would be a first.  LOL
>
>
>So you say

Yes, that's what I say, which is why I wrote it.

>
>
>>>
>>> Generally Ben and the others
>>>> respond to ad hominem attacks by McVey and consorts.
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, you would be hard pressed to find any responses by the filth 
>>>mongers, cramer kc and bernard, that isn't an ad hominem
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Of course this has nothing to do with the general idiocy of kunt 
>knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody who expresses any doubt at all, even about
>>>>>> the most preposterous of the holocaust™ stories, is immediately
>>>>>> shouted down as a new Hitler, a Nazi, a denier, or whatever else 
>they
>>>>>> can dredge up to call people.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting assertion. You seem to have a general antipathy to 
>>>responding 
>>>>>to criticism of your remarks. You also seem to have a very strong, one 
>>>>>would almost say racial, hatred of the Allies which you aren't adverse 
>>>to 
>>>>>repeating.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've seen this technique in use before, and I'm not impressed.
>>>>>
>>>>>No one is impressed by your groups use of this technique.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Various
>>>>>> insane homophobes regularly use the same techniques by immediately
>>>>>> branding any gay person as a "child molestor", even though all the
>>>>>> available statistics say otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>What you aren't addressing is the proclivity of your group, when 
>pressed 
>>>>>into a corner, to project their perversions on others.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The homophobic lobby is full of shit,
>>>>>
>>>>>Yet I do not recall ever seeing you telling this to cramer, kc or 
>daniel 
>>>>>bernard when they bring it up. Do you have a problem telling them your 
>>>>>feelings?
>>>>>
>>>>> and so apparently is the holocaust™ lobby. Both lobbies are
>>>>>> running on empty, and hence need to resort to rhetoric and
>>>>>> intimidation to keep their nonsense upright.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, your group has been on empty so long, it has lost track of its 
>>>>>position
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>intimidate and knoll, but you never answer questions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:ad6dnf_hxpIQYc3UnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>message 
>>>>>>>>> news:4950e1e3$0$4780$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  >
>>>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>>>message 
>>>>>>>>>>> news:494fa495$0$4789$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>I do not need one gord . While living in Nuremberg whe the 
>show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>trial was on id did listening to it every day. What irks me 
>the 
>>>>>most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>is when the accused wanted to give an explanatotion. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>transmission was interrupted and we were allowed to the 
>>>religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>service of the local Synagogue. You must also remember it was 
>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Germans who did pay for the rebuilding of the synagoe war time 
>>>by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>the allied. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> As a former Nuremberger, You may also be familiar with this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * The Nuremberg Laws were designed by Hitler to define the 
>>>status 
>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews in Germany and to restrict them in political and social 
>>>life.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Which was a very clever move, given the yids had all but 
>>>destroyed 
>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and had publicly stated that their goal was to finish 
>the
>>>>>>>>>>> job. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From this I understand that You are not a denier of The 
>Holocaust 
>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>> a justifier of it, belonging to the group B of revisionists.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Topi
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's the yids who have declared me to be a denier sunschein, 
>simply 
>>>>>>>>> because I don't swallow the entire story wholesale.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lay off the vodkkka.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, I thought you had plonked me. Yet another failure of your 
>computer 
>>>>>skills?
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:55 EST 2009
Article: 1975179 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 03:45:17 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>The nizkor side is an element of deception. McVay and his consort are here 
>to promote the Holocaust saga in any way and shape the can. But the do 
>definitely go overboard when the harass anyone who does not belie in their 
>version of manipulated histories. Anyone who gets harassed by them are 
>getting twice shy. Why would anyone trust this tow faced hoodlums.

The holocaust™ mafia does what it can to maintain the story, and
intimidation is part of the tool kit.

>Kurt Knoll.
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:s57bl4t0vgvv9kfrljeq4hm27cb2onnkl5@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:13:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>You are the only one who believes in your nizkor organ. Who will you cheat
>>>lie and extort next.
>>
>> The whole concept of having the name nizkor, a paid propaganda site,
>> in the same line as "truth" or "fact" is preposterous.
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"RJ11"  wrote in message 
>>>news:gj2jjg$vcv$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>>>>
>>>>   Deal with the facts,  please.  Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>>>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>>>
>>>>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>>>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>>>> death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>>>
>>>>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>>>> in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>>>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>> RJ.
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:55 EST 2009
Article: 1975180 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:06:27 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>news:s57bl4t0vgvv9kfrljeq4hm27cb2onnkl5@4ax.com: 
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:13:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>You are the only one who believes in your nizkor organ. Who will you
>>>cheat lie and extort next.
>> 
>> The whole concept of having the name nizkor, a paid propaganda site,
>> in the same line as "truth" or "fact" is preposterous.
>
>
>Of course, we have seen your documentation

What "documentation" are you babbling about? Most of the
"documentation" is allied propaganda dreck consisting of, partial or
complete forgeries. I have numerous relatives who lived in Germany at
the time, and they don't believe so why should I believe your stuff
over their personal experiences?




>...oh wait a minute, you knoll
>
>
>> 
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"RJ11"  wrote in message
>>>news:gj2jjg$vcv$1@pcls6.std.com... 
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>>>>
>>>>   Deal with the facts,  please.  Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-
>belsen/images/
>>>> belsen01.jpg 
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-
>belsen/images/
>>>> belsen02.jpg 
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdru
>>>> f-02.jpg 
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//nordhausen/images/nor
>>>> dhausen-01.jpg 
>>>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF 
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?
>camps//buchenwald/images/buc
>>>> henwald01.jpg 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>>>
>>>>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>>>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>>>> death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>>>
>>>>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored
>>>>   investigation 
>>>> in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>>>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>> RJ. 
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:56 EST 2009
Article: 1975205 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:13:02 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:t87bl4tjej2auqgithbj1rg8cfdovq83br@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Yet you all too happily accept the mile high flames over the fire storms 
>>>of Dresden and Hamburg. LOL
>> 
>> Nobody has ever claimed "mile high flames" over either city,
>
>
>Of course they didn't...but wait, here are two nil sites that do just 
>that. How do you explain this (and note that it's THREE MILE HIGH FLAMES)
>
>http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/blitz.html
>http://www.nazi-lauck-nsdapao.com/eng-uk-004.htm
>
>
> but those
>> were real atrocities that were very well documented by both the
>> victims and the perpetrators.
>
>
>Yes, those THREE MILE HIGH FLAMES must have made quite an impression. 
>Wonder if they got that high in London or Coventry?

London and Coventry were minor affairs compared to Hamburg or Dresden.
The total civilian death toll in Britain over the entire war was about
60,000 or slightly less than the typical traffic toll over a 5-year
period. Coventry was an attack on the aircraft industry in which,
unfortunately, a few HUNDRED civilians lost their lives. Hamburg and
Dresden differ dramatically from London and Coventry because in the
former pair the civilian residents were the actual targets. The models
the Americans built up in the western deserts to practice their
butchery were models of densely inhabited downtown workers districts,
not factories or other such installations. The allied aims here were
the same as those you claim for Auschwitz, but simply using different
methods.


>
>
>> 
>> By contrast, the geysers of blood story makes even Alice in Wonderland
>> seem realistic by comparison.
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:56 EST 2009
Article: 1975206 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli blockade forces Palestinians to suffer the consequences of their actions
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:14:18 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:4e7bl4thbmbi802ds06i02ld87km4mj06n@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:22:46 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>news:7I45l.969$%v1.425@edtnps83: 
>>>
>>>> The Palestinians have no weapons to fight back.
>>>
>>>Really? The rockets that land in Israel must come from germany then.
>> 
>> That is highly doubtful, like most of the rest of your babble.
>
>
>So where did the rockets that the palestinians don't have come from? Maybe 
>you should ask those little girls that were killed today...by palestinian 
>rockets.

Canadian news outlets describe them as "homemade", but certainly not
manufactured in Germany, except possibly in your demented
hallucinations.

>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> I am very sure you
>>>> people will screw them long enough till they ere exterminated what 
>will
>>>> your next line be.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are Jewish
>>>
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>> 
>>>> "dsharavi"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:6311bdb2-3848-48ec-a216-
>2c52999132fb@g1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "Boedi...@isp.com"  wrote:
>>>>> The Gaza has always been Palestinian
>>>> 
>>>> "Always" here being approximately fifty years.
>>>> 
>>>>>and once was completely inhabited by The Philistines.
>>>> 
>>>> The Pleshtim, a contingent of the Sea Peoples, invaded and occupied
>>>> the coastal strip of southwestern Retenu (Canaan), which belonged to
>>>> Egypt, in the 12thC BCE. They were defeated by Israel, and eradicated
>>>> by Babylon in the 7thC BCE.
>>>> 
>>>>> The Philistine Delilah lived there when she was involved with >
>Samson.
>>>> 
>>>> If they existed.
>>>> 
>>>>> OTOH Abraham  was an Iraqi
>>>> 
>>>> There was no Iraq when Abraham existed.
>>>> 
>>>>> before he moved to Hebron. Abraham's eldest son is the
>>>>> father of the Muslims,
>>>> 
>>>> Wrong. Abraham's eldest son, the bastard Ishmael, was the father of
>>>> the Edomites and some northern Arabic tribes.
>>>> 
>>>>>that's why Muslims celebrate their holiday of
>>>>> Eid and slit the throats of all those poor sheep.
>>>> 
>>>> They would slit throats in any case.
>>>> 
>>>> Deborah
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:56 EST 2009
Article: 1975207 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holocaust deniers logic. What tells the DOGMA. 900 workers and a lot of jobs.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:15:24 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:2g7bl45eptrp798nks8hbc3h3dbq0s1uop@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:46:49 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>  [preposterous insanity crap deleted]
>
>
>
>In article <20k9l4dsq5t947j9rqdpe59qj5mk2qpvim@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/camps/belsen/kramer.shtml
>Joseph Kramer,  commandant of Belsen.  Also served
>in Auschwitz.  Hanged.
>
>http://max.mmvi.de/ssfrauen/bormann.jpg
>Johanna Bormann,  female member of the SS.  Served in
>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged.
>
>http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/SS-Women.jpg
>More female members of the SS,  who served in Belsen.
>
>http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/OldPhotos/FranzHoessler.jpg
>SS Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler.  Served  in
>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged
>
I'm familiar with the various allied atrocities in postwar Germany.
You don't need to remind me of the actions of various allied kangaroo
courts.

There is a reason that one of the first things that happened when
power was restored to German authorities was the abolition of the
death penalty. The allied kangaroo courts put far more people to death
than Justice Freisler's court ever did.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:57 EST 2009
Article: 1975313 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:31:20 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , Zulu   wrote:
>
>> And what about those "survivors" who pretended to guess the nationality
>> of the burning corpses according with the color of the smoke?
>
>What the witness really said is that they could guess whether the
>victims were emaciated or not,  and based on that,  know the
>country of origin.  I see no reason to doubt this;  crematorium
>workers have reported that burning corpses of overweight people
>results in phenomena which are different from those when other
>people are cremated.
>
>"Body size (obese weight) and levels of body fat have considerable effects on 
>the operation of your cremation equipment. A body weighing more than 300 
>pounds should be treated with extreme caution. Due to the high fat content, 
>obese human remains generate tremendous amounts of heat. Equipment damage 
>e.g., warping of the primary chamber, uncontrolled fires, copious amounts of 
>smoke, secondary fires from pooling of melted body fat and explosions from 
>same have all occurred."
>
>True,  I don't suppose many deportees were over 300 pounds,  but this
>does prove that the percentage of fat results in different effects
>during cremation.
>
>But if you really want to see some crazy testimonies,  have a look at
>the testimonies by Germans about the bombing of their cities.  "Puddles
>of melted flesh",  "three-mile high flames",  and my favorite -- people
>"shriveled in one second to the size of a child"...

I don't know about the "one second" bit of your babble, but my mother
had the sad task of picking up human remains in Frankfurt a/M at the
age of 16, and they had indeed shrivelled to the size of a small doll.
It is an experience that has traumatized her for the rest of her life.
Jews don't have a monopoly on suffering as you would like to suggest.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:57 EST 2009
Article: 1975324 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Warhol 
wrote:

>On 27 dec, 16:14, jgarbuz  wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 10:08 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>> > ISRAEL'S air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip
>> > today killing at least 140 people and wounding 200 medical officials say.
>>
>> > The strikes targeted several police compounds of the the radical Islamic
>> > group Hamas, the elected leaders of Palestine.<
>>
>> Israel has to do to the elected leaders of Hamas the same as what the
>> USAF did to the elected leaders of Nazi Germany:bomb them into their
>> bunkers and hopefully Hamas will shoot or poison themselves too.
>
>
>
>It shows who the real terrorists are. The zionists.

Israel is just another vicious settler-state.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:57 EST 2009
Article: 1975325 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:14:30 -0500, xpenenyx@earthlink.net wrote:

>
>>One accidentally struck a northern Gaza house killing two Palestinian 
>>sisters, aged five and 13, and wounding a third, Palestinian medics say. 
>
>You've got this part ass backwards.  It was a Hamas misfired rocket
>that killed the two sisters.

Even if that were true, and I rather doubt it, the Israeli monsters
and mass-murderers have massacred thousands of children over the years
to maintain their illegal blood-bespattered murderous settler-state.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:58 EST 2009
Article: 1975326 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:01:58 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:20:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Yet you all too happily accept the mile high flames over the fire storms 
>>> of Dresden and Hamburg. LOL
>
>> Nobody has ever claimed "mile high flames" over either city,
>
>You're correct:  German "witnesses" stated the flames were
>*three* mile high!
>
>http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Dissenters1/HRP/Walsh.htm
>
>"As Hamburg burned the winds feeding the three mile high flames reached
>twice hurricane speed to exceed 150 miles per hour."

The winds overturned streetcars and physically threw them towards the
centre of the low pressure area. The 250 km/h winds are well
documented in Hamburg, and also in large-scale forest fires where a
fire-storm has taken hold. The "flames" reference is simply bad
terminology, but the superheated gases would undoubtedly be glowing as
they rose, and could indeed be mistaken for "flames" at night. The
allied air crews noted the same phenomenon as they departed from the
scene.

>
>And this from a "revisionist" website,  no less! 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:58 EST 2009
Article: 1975327 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:14:36 -0800 (PST), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Dec 27, 10:08 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> ISRAEL'S air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip
>> today killing at least 140 people and wounding 200 medical officials say.
>>
>> The strikes targeted several police compounds of the the radical Islamic
>> group Hamas, the elected leaders of Palestine.<
>
>Israel has to do to the elected leaders of Hamas the same as what the
>USAF did to the elected leaders of Nazi Germany:bomb them into their
>bunkers and hopefully Hamas will shoot or poison themselves too.

So you're not really against war crimes in principle, just when they
impact on your favourite folk.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:31:59 EST 2009
Article: 1975328 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:23:42 +0100, "albertus.magnus XLIV."
 wrote:

>
>"Tim Miller"  schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
>news:gj5uol$gii$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> UncleRemus wrote:
>>> "Tim Miller"  wrote in message 
>>> news:gj5h98$rpa$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>>> Heinrich wrote:
>>>>> ISRAEL'S air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip 
>>>>> today killing at least 140 people and wounding 200 medical officials 
>>>>> say.
>>>>>
>>>>> The strikes targeted several police compounds of the the radical 
>>>>> Islamic group Hamas, the elected leaders of Palestine.
>>>> Excellent news, thanks!
>>>>
>>
>>>What?  No "crimes against humanity" when non-Jews are killed?
>>
>> Naah, it was just a bunch of cowardly terrorists finally
>> getting what they deserved. Israel has been MUCH to patient
>> with those pissants.
>>
>>>>
>>>> BTW, last I heard, 145 of those terrorists were killed and 310 wounded!
>>>
>>
>> MORE good news! It's OVER 200 dead terrorists now!
>
>
>not enough...

Right on, you haven't seen enough dead five-year-olds to satisfy your
insane blood-lust.

Why don't you just fuck off, you murdering bastard?

>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:00 EST 2009
Article: 1975329 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RACIST JEW BUTCHERS
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 14:04:43 -0500, "UncleRemus"
 wrote:

>
>"Caduceus"  wrote in message 
>news:qttcl4l7ekds6qpoutk3q8plvkuj1r6v30@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:24:52 -0500, "UncleRemus"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Dec 27, 8:29 AM (ET)
>>>
>>>By IBRAHIM BARZAK
>>>
>>>GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli warplanes retaliating for rocket fire
>>>from the Gaza Strip pounded dozens of security compounds across the
>>>Hamas-ruled territory in unprecedented waves of airstrikes Saturday, 
>>>killing
>>>at least 155 and wounding more than 310 in the single bloodiest day of
>>>fighting in recent memory.
>>>
>>>Hamas said all of its security installations were hit and responded with
>>>several medium-range Grad rockets at Israel, reaching deeper than in the
>>>past. One Israeli was killed and at least four people were wounded.
>>>
>>>Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said "the operation will last as long 
>>>as
>>>necessary," but it was not clear if it would be coupled with a ground
>>>offensive. Asked if Hamas political leaders might be targeted next, 
>>>military
>>>spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich said, "Any Hamas target is a target."
>>>
>>>The strikes caused widespread panic and confusion in Gaza, as black clouds
>>>of smoke rose above the territory, ruled by Hamas for the past 18 months.
>>>Some of the Israeli missiles struck in densely populated areas as children
>>>were leaving school, and women rushed into the streets frantically looking
>>>for their children.
>>>
>>>In Gaza City's main security compound, bodies of more than a dozen 
>>>uniformed
>>>security officers lay on the ground. One survivor raised his index finger 
>>>in
>>>a show of Muslim faith, uttering a prayer. The Gaza police chief was among
>>>those killed. One man, his face bloodied, sat dazed on the ground as a 
>>>fire
>>>raged nearby.
>>>
>>>It wasn't immediately clear how many civilian casualties there were.
>>>
>>>Said Masri sat in the middle of a Gaza City street, close to a security
>>>compound, alternately slapping his face and covering his head with dust 
>>>from
>>>the bombed-out building.
>>>
>>>"My son is gone, my son is gone," wailed Masri, 57. The shopkeeper said he
>>>sent his 9-year-old son out to purchase cigarettes minutes before the
>>>airstrikes began and now could not find him. "May I burn like the
>>>cigarettes, may Israel burn," Masri moaned.
>>>
>>>Defiant Hamas leaders threatened revenge, including suicide attacks. Hamas
>>>"will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood," vowed 
>>>spokesman
>>>Fawzi Barhoum.
>>>
>>>Israel told its civilians near Gaza to take cover as militants began
>>>retaliating with rockets, and in the West Bank, moderate Palestinian
>>>President Mahmoud Abbas called for restraint. Egypt summoned the Israeli
>>>ambassador to express condemnation and opened its border with Gaza to 
>>>allow
>>>ambulances to drive out some of the wounded.
>>>
>>>Protests erupted in the Abbas-ruled West Bank and across the Arab world.
>>>
>>>Several hundred angry Jordanians poured protested outside a U.N. complex 
>>>in
>>>the capital Amman. "Hamas, go ahead. You are the cannon, we are the
>>>bullets," they cried, some waving the signature green Hamas banners.
>>>
>>>In Beirut, dozens of youths hit the streets and set fire to tires. In
>>>Syria's al-Yarmouk camp, outside Damascus, dozens of Palestinians 
>>>protested
>>>the attack as well, vowing to continue fighting Israel.
>>>
>>>Israeli leaders approved military action against Gaza earlier in the week.
>>>
>>>Past limited ground incursions and air strikes have not halted rocket
>>>barrages from Gaza.
>>>
>>>But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce
>>>expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according 
>>>to
>>>the military's count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the 
>>>military
>>>to crush the gunmen.
>>>
>>>Earlier this month, Israeli security officials told the government that
>>>militants possess rockets with ranges capable of reaching farther from 
>>>Gaza
>>>than ever before, including the cities of Beersheba and Ashdod.
>>>
>>>Gaza militants fired several rockets Saturday, including one that struck a
>>>new target, the town of Kiryat Gat. A missile hit on the town of Netivot
>>>killed an Israeli man and wounded four people, rescue services said. In
>>>Ashkelon, TV cameras showed people huddle against a wall as a rocket alert
>>>sounded.
>>>
>>>Barak, the Israeli defense minister, said that the coming period "won't be
>>>easy and won't be short for the communities in the south (of Israel).
>>>
>>>Israel declared a state of emergency in Israeli communities within a 
>>>12-mile
>>>(20-kilometer) range of Gaza, putting the area on a war footing.
>>>
>>>The first round of air strikes came just before noon, and several more 
>>>waves
>>>followed.
>>>
>>>Hospitals crowded with people, civilians rushing in wounded people in 
>>>cars,
>>>vans and ambulances. "We are treating people on the floor, in the 
>>>corridors.
>>>We have no more space. We don't know who is here and what the priority is 
>>>to
>>>treat," said a doctor at Shifa Hospital, Gaza's main treatment center. He
>>>hung up the phone before identifying himself.
>>>
>>>Dr. Moawiya Hassanain, a Gaza Health Ministry official, said at least 145
>>>people were killed and more than 300 wounded.
>>>
>>>Frantic civilians drove wounded people to hospitals in their cars.
>>>
>>>In the West Bank, Hamas' rival, Abbas, said in a statement that he 
>>>"condemns
>>>this aggression" and called for restraint, according to an aide, Nabil Abu
>>>Rdeneh. Abbas, who has ruled only the West Bank since the Islamic Hamas
>>>seized power in Gaza in June 2007, was in contact with Arab leaders, and 
>>>his
>>>West Bank Cabinet convened an emergency session.
>>>
>>>Israel has targeted Gaza in the past, but the number of simultaneous 
>>>attacks
>>>was unprecedented.
>>>
>>>Israel left Gaza in 2005 after a 38-year occupation, but the withdrawal 
>>>did
>>>not lead to better relations with Palestinians in the territory as Israeli
>>>officials had hoped.
>>>
>>>Instead, the evacuation was followed by a sharp rise in militant attacks 
>>>on
>>>Israeli border communities that on several occasions provoked harsh 
>>>Israeli
>>>military reprisals.
>>>
>>>The last, in late February and early March, spurred both sides to agree to 
>>>a
>>>truce that was to have lasted six months but began unraveling in early
>>>November. In recent days, Israeli leaders had been voicing strong threats 
>>>to
>>>launch a major offensive.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The Israelies should have nuked the rag heads.
>>
>>
>> There are hundreds of millions of more "rag heads" who are dedicated to 
>> killing you racist CRIMINAL Jews.
>Racist Israel will NEVER know a moment's peace.  No racist Jew in Israel 
>will ever know a moment's safety.
>No Jew child will ever escape the sins of its fathers.
>Yup. 
>
This evil settler-state will eventually fall victim to its own folly,
and decent people everywhere will justly rejoice.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:01 EST 2009
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:45:48 -0600, Caduceus
 wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:24:52 -0500, "UncleRemus"
> wrote:
>
>>Dec 27, 8:29 AM (ET)
>>
>>By IBRAHIM BARZAK
>>
>>GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Israeli warplanes retaliating for rocket fire 
>>from the Gaza Strip pounded dozens of security compounds across the 
>>Hamas-ruled territory in unprecedented waves of airstrikes Saturday, killing 
>>at least 155 and wounding more than 310 in the single bloodiest day of 
>>fighting in recent memory.
>>
>>Hamas said all of its security installations were hit and responded with 
>>several medium-range Grad rockets at Israel, reaching deeper than in the 
>>past. One Israeli was killed and at least four people were wounded.
>>
>>Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said "the operation will last as long as 
>>necessary," but it was not clear if it would be coupled with a ground 
>>offensive. Asked if Hamas political leaders might be targeted next, military 
>>spokeswoman Maj. Avital Leibovich said, "Any Hamas target is a target."
>>
>>The strikes caused widespread panic and confusion in Gaza, as black clouds 
>>of smoke rose above the territory, ruled by Hamas for the past 18 months. 
>>Some of the Israeli missiles struck in densely populated areas as children 
>>were leaving school, and women rushed into the streets frantically looking 
>>for their children.
>>
>>In Gaza City's main security compound, bodies of more than a dozen uniformed 
>>security officers lay on the ground. One survivor raised his index finger in 
>>a show of Muslim faith, uttering a prayer. The Gaza police chief was among 
>>those killed. One man, his face bloodied, sat dazed on the ground as a fire 
>>raged nearby.
>>
>>It wasn't immediately clear how many civilian casualties there were.
>>
>>Said Masri sat in the middle of a Gaza City street, close to a security 
>>compound, alternately slapping his face and covering his head with dust from 
>>the bombed-out building.
>>
>>"My son is gone, my son is gone," wailed Masri, 57. The shopkeeper said he 
>>sent his 9-year-old son out to purchase cigarettes minutes before the 
>>airstrikes began and now could not find him. "May I burn like the 
>>cigarettes, may Israel burn," Masri moaned.
>>
>>Defiant Hamas leaders threatened revenge, including suicide attacks. Hamas 
>>"will continue the resistance until the last drop of blood," vowed spokesman 
>>Fawzi Barhoum.
>>
>>Israel told its civilians near Gaza to take cover as militants began 
>>retaliating with rockets, and in the West Bank, moderate Palestinian 
>>President Mahmoud Abbas called for restraint. Egypt summoned the Israeli 
>>ambassador to express condemnation and opened its border with Gaza to allow 
>>ambulances to drive out some of the wounded.
>>
>>Protests erupted in the Abbas-ruled West Bank and across the Arab world.
>>
>>Several hundred angry Jordanians poured protested outside a U.N. complex in 
>>the capital Amman. "Hamas, go ahead. You are the cannon, we are the 
>>bullets," they cried, some waving the signature green Hamas banners.
>>
>>In Beirut, dozens of youths hit the streets and set fire to tires. In 
>>Syria's al-Yarmouk camp, outside Damascus, dozens of Palestinians protested 
>>the attack as well, vowing to continue fighting Israel.
>>
>>Israeli leaders approved military action against Gaza earlier in the week.
>>
>>Past limited ground incursions and air strikes have not halted rocket 
>>barrages from Gaza.
>>
>>But with 200 mortars and rockets raining down on Israel since the truce 
>>expired a week ago, and 3,000 since the beginning of the year, according to 
>>the military's count, pressure had been mounting in Israel for the military 
>>to crush the gunmen.
>>
>>Earlier this month, Israeli security officials told the government that 
>>militants possess rockets with ranges capable of reaching farther from Gaza 
>>than ever before, including the cities of Beersheba and Ashdod.
>>
>>Gaza militants fired several rockets Saturday, including one that struck a 
>>new target, the town of Kiryat Gat. A missile hit on the town of Netivot 
>>killed an Israeli man and wounded four people, rescue services said. In 
>>Ashkelon, TV cameras showed people huddle against a wall as a rocket alert 
>>sounded.
>>
>>Barak, the Israeli defense minister, said that the coming period "won't be 
>>easy and won't be short for the communities in the south (of Israel).
>>
>>Israel declared a state of emergency in Israeli communities within a 12-mile 
>>(20-kilometer) range of Gaza, putting the area on a war footing.
>>
>>The first round of air strikes came just before noon, and several more waves 
>>followed.
>>
>>Hospitals crowded with people, civilians rushing in wounded people in cars, 
>>vans and ambulances. "We are treating people on the floor, in the corridors. 
>>We have no more space. We don't know who is here and what the priority is to 
>>treat," said a doctor at Shifa Hospital, Gaza's main treatment center. He 
>>hung up the phone before identifying himself.
>>
>>Dr. Moawiya Hassanain, a Gaza Health Ministry official, said at least 145 
>>people were killed and more than 300 wounded.
>>
>>Frantic civilians drove wounded people to hospitals in their cars.
>>
>>In the West Bank, Hamas' rival, Abbas, said in a statement that he "condemns 
>>this aggression" and called for restraint, according to an aide, Nabil Abu 
>>Rdeneh. Abbas, who has ruled only the West Bank since the Islamic Hamas 
>>seized power in Gaza in June 2007, was in contact with Arab leaders, and his 
>>West Bank Cabinet convened an emergency session.
>>
>>Israel has targeted Gaza in the past, but the number of simultaneous attacks 
>>was unprecedented.
>>
>>Israel left Gaza in 2005 after a 38-year occupation, but the withdrawal did 
>>not lead to better relations with Palestinians in the territory as Israeli 
>>officials had hoped.
>>
>>Instead, the evacuation was followed by a sharp rise in militant attacks on 
>>Israeli border communities that on several occasions provoked harsh Israeli 
>>military reprisals.
>>
>>The last, in late February and early March, spurred both sides to agree to a 
>>truce that was to have lasted six months but began unraveling in early 
>>November. In recent days, Israeli leaders had been voicing strong threats to 
>>launch a major offensive.
>>
>>
>>
>
>The Israelies should have nuked the rag heads.

Somebody should treat the Israelis to that remedy. It is high time
that this murderous settler-state were dispatched to its master in
hell.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:01 EST 2009
Article: 1975331 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'? That's so stupid but you must swallow it, buddy. That's the DOGMA's law.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:38:16 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , Zulu   wrote:
>
>> Bombing raids by the Allied aviation provoked 67,178 deaths and
>> 75,660 wounded among French civilian population.
>
>Source?
>
That is well known. Don't you know anything at all, or just your silly
propaganda?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:02 EST 2009
Article: 1975459 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holocaust deniers logic. What tells the DOGMA. 900 workers and a lot of jobs.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:18:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:l5acl4dp8o6v4r6qtlna3m3i1snbtf9s8s@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:15:24 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:2g7bl45eptrp798nks8hbc3h3dbq0s1uop@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:46:49 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>  [preposterous insanity crap deleted]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In article <20k9l4dsq5t947j9rqdpe59qj5mk2qpvim@4ax.com>,
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>
>>>[snippage]
>>>
>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/camps/belsen/kramer.shtml
>>>Joseph Kramer,  commandant of Belsen.  Also served
>>>in Auschwitz.  Hanged.
>>>
>>>http://max.mmvi.de/ssfrauen/bormann.jpg
>>>Johanna Bormann,  female member of the SS.  Served in
>>>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged.
>>>
>>>http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/SS-Women.jpg
>>>More female members of the SS,  who served in Belsen.
>>>
>>>http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/OldPhotos/FranzHoessler.jpg
>>>SS Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler.  Served  in
>>>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged
>>>
>> I'm familiar with the various allied atrocities in postwar Germany.
>> You don't need to remind me of the actions of various allied kangaroo
>> courts.
>> 
>> There is a reason that one of the first things that happened when
>> power was restored to German authorities was the abolition of the
>> death penalty. The allied kangaroo courts put far more people to death
>> than Justice Freisler's court ever did.
>> 
>
>What about ALL of the courts

Death penalty cases generally went to the supreme court in Germany,
which at that time was the court of Justice Freisler.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:03 EST 2009
Article: 1975460 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: Auschwitz-Birkenau: Layman's Guide (1/2)
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:57:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:j49cl45899s6f79p4sgkgv2cpek27k92bp@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:05:26 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:rh6bl4145l7cc6ufqr30fmcskgq68j0kqm@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>news:vmh9l4pjuh7qvu9slsnst5j1ba5h1r7h0l@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:56:53 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 24/12/08"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>>>news:mec4l4924tbmc8t54c1cfa2lt646bef1t7@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:02:10 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 
>23/12/08"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>news:Ud94l.318$%v1.279@edtnps83: 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Everytime someone disagrees with them they will go on a search 
>and
>>>>>>>>>> destroy mission do discredit anyone who does not eat the 
>holocaust 
>>>>>>>saga
>>>>>>>>>> hook line and sinker. one just must take a good look at the show 
>>>>>>>trials
>>>>>>>>>> where they do an all out effort to discredit anyone that is in 
>>>their
>>>>>>>>>> way. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Every time someone asks you a question you will call them names, 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The chief name-callers on this newsgroup are the members of the 
>>>local
>>>>>>>> holocaust™ lobby.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's true. ben hebe cramer, kosher cuny and daniel bernard most 
>>>>>>>certainly are the chief name callers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That hasn't been my observation here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>For you since obviously you are used to being called a cunt.
>>>> 
>>>> Actually no, that would be a first.  LOL
>>>
>>>
>>>So you say
>> 
>> Yes, that's what I say, which is why I wrote it.
>
>
>Which makes it totally meaningless

No, meaninglessness seems to be a characteristic of your writing, not
mine.

>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Generally Ben and the others
>>>>>> respond to ad hominem attacks by McVey and consorts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, you would be hard pressed to find any responses by the filth 
>>>>>mongers, cramer kc and bernard, that isn't an ad hominem
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Of course this has nothing to do with the general idiocy of kunt 
>>>knoll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anybody who expresses any doubt at all, even about
>>>>>>>> the most preposterous of the holocaust™ stories, is immediately
>>>>>>>> shouted down as a new Hitler, a Nazi, a denier, or whatever else 
>>>they
>>>>>>>> can dredge up to call people.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Interesting assertion. You seem to have a general antipathy to 
>>>>>responding 
>>>>>>>to criticism of your remarks. You also seem to have a very strong, 
>one 
>>>>>>>would almost say racial, hatred of the Allies which you aren't 
>adverse 
>>>>>to 
>>>>>>>repeating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've seen this technique in use before, and I'm not impressed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No one is impressed by your groups use of this technique.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Various
>>>>>>>> insane homophobes regularly use the same techniques by immediately
>>>>>>>> branding any gay person as a "child molestor", even though all the
>>>>>>>> available statistics say otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What you aren't addressing is the proclivity of your group, when 
>>>pressed 
>>>>>>>into a corner, to project their perversions on others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The homophobic lobby is full of shit,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yet I do not recall ever seeing you telling this to cramer, kc or 
>>>daniel 
>>>>>>>bernard when they bring it up. Do you have a problem telling them 
>your 
>>>>>>>feelings?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and so apparently is the holocaust™ lobby. Both lobbies are
>>>>>>>> running on empty, and hence need to resort to rhetoric and
>>>>>>>> intimidation to keep their nonsense upright.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, your group has been on empty so long, it has lost track of its 
>>>>>>>position
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>intimidate and knoll, but you never answer questions
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>> news:ad6dnf_hxpIQYc3UnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>>>message 
>>>>>>>>>>> news:4950e1e3$0$4780$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>>>>>message 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:494fa495$0$4789$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I do not need one gord . While living in Nuremberg whe the 
>>>show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trial was on id did listening to it every day. What irks me 
>>>the 
>>>>>>>most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is when the accused wanted to give an explanatotion. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>transmission was interrupted and we were allowed to the 
>>>>>religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>service of the local Synagogue. You must also remember it 
>was 
>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Germans who did pay for the rebuilding of the synagoe war 
>time 
>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the allied. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a former Nuremberger, You may also be familiar with this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * The Nuremberg Laws were designed by Hitler to define the 
>>>>>status 
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews in Germany and to restrict them in political and social 
>>>>>life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which was a very clever move, given the yids had all but 
>>>>>destroyed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and had publicly stated that their goal was to finish 
>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> job. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> From this I understand that You are not a denier of The 
>>>Holocaust 
>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>>> a justifier of it, belonging to the group B of revisionists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Topi
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's the yids who have declared me to be a denier sunschein, 
>>>simply 
>>>>>>>>>>> because I don't swallow the entire story wholesale.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Lay off the vodkkka.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>BTW, I thought you had plonked me. Yet another failure of your 
>>>computer 
>>>>>>>skills?
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:03 EST 2009
Article: 1975461 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:46:37 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"David Hartung"  wrote in message 
>news:e56dnZDer-lGwcvUnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 10:53 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>> Karl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:hqydnbP05fTo1svUnZ2dnUVZ_tXinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>> Next, they will tell us that they are the victims and call you an
>>>>>>> antisemite for even mentioning the innocents these ZioScum murdered.
>>>>>>> They will continue to murder innocent and helpless people until
>>>>>>> somebody steps on them.
>>>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:22 pm, last_permutat...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> America of course officially approves.
>>>>>>>> GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people in 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years.
>>>>>>>> Palestinian militants responded with rocket salvoes that killed an
>>>>>>>> Israeli man and wounded several others, medics said.
>>>>>>>> The missiles struck as children were leaving school, leading to
>>>>>>>> widespread confusion and panic.
>>>>>>>> Plumes of black smoke rose above Gaza City, as sirens wailed and
>>>>>>>> mothers ran through the rubble searching desperately for their
>>>>>>>> children.
>>>>>>>> Television footage showed Gaza City hospitals crowded with people 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> civilians transporting the wounded in their cars.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> So lessee, one Israeli dead, nearly 200 Palestinians dead so far; 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> number keeps rising.
>>>>>> Let me see, Palestinian Arabs can attack and kill all the Jews they
>>>>>> wish, but if the Israelis try to go after the killers, they are wrong.
>>>>>> Do I have it right?
>>>>> You do not. You ignore what is the real cause.
>>>> You mean the refusal of the Arabs to accept that Israel is a real
>>>> country, and is not going anywhere
>>>
>>> One day, your dumb ass may comprehend concepts like stolen land,
>>> illegal occupation, apartheid conditions, dozens of UN resolution
>>> violations,
>>> countless war crimes and crimes against humanity.  Your corrupt, dumb
>>> ass supports such a place.   At least three of Is-it-real's PM's were
>>> documented
>>> terrorists and war criminals.   Now move along.
>>
>> Just for the sake of discussion, what do you see as the solution to the 
>> issues in Israel?
>
>The existence of Israel is the issue.

The world would be a better more humane place if Israel didn't exist.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:03 EST 2009
Article: 1975463 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 01:11:36 +0100, Zulu  wrote:

>I'll Always Be 26/12/08 escribió:
>> Bent Attorney  wrote in news:33e97db0-438f-
>> 4c9f-b73a-6b1dbca74a8e@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>> 
>>> On Dec 25, 1:52 pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll > @citywest.ca> 
>>> wrote:
>>>>> I know what you did is beyond of the capacity of your brain.
>>>> Frau Pikelhaube is simply envious of those of us who HAVE brains.
>>>> Those of us, for instance, who see the sentence above as complete
>>>> jibberish.
>>>>
>>> One thing you can't dispute is that Leuchter was an engineer.
>> 
>> Of course we dispute it. He was as much an engineer as kurt is a shade 
>> tree mechanic.
>> 
>> 
>>   He may
>>> not have received credibility/licensing from the government or from
>>> engineering licensing bodies, but since he did engineering he was an
>>> engineer
>> 
>> There is absolutely no proof that he did any engineering. Please cite 
>> examples of this claim
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> and did not lie under oath when asked whether he was an engineer.
>> 
>> Of course he knolled. He has no engineering skills, no degrees, no 
>> training, no licenses...he was a fraud
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> If I can drive a car well enough to pass any licensing test with
>>> flying colours, but don't bother with obtaining a license does that
>>> mean that I can not drive a car?
>> 
>> A better analogy would be that the fact that you can put gasoline into a 
>> car doesn't make you a mechanic
>> 
>> 
>>   Yes and no.  I am quite able to
>>> drive a car, but am not allowed to drive a car because I didn't pay
>>> the guv their cut.
>> 
>> 
>> Lifes a bitch. And then you die
>> 
>
>Explain us how the fact that Leuchter was not an engineer reflects on his work about 
>"gas chambers" topic?
>
>Do I use the fact that Pressac wasn't an engineer either to rebate all his 
>considerations about technical matters?
>
>I rebate Pressac because he was WRONG, not because he was not an engineer nor a plumber.

That position at least makes some sense. All this harping about
qualifications is just obfuscation.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:04 EST 2009
Article: 1975464 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toilet seats crushing christian boys penis's
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:10:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Heavy toilet seats can be a danger to little boys
>Wooden toilet seats' popularity may lead to rise in 'crush' injuries, doc 
>says
>	
>
>
>Parents of newly toilet-trained boys should take a few simple steps to 
>keep their sons' penises safe when they go to the bathroom, a team of UK 
>urologists advises.
>
>There's evidence that crush injuries due to falling toilet seats may be on 
>the rise, Dr. Joe Philip of Leighton Hospital in Crewe in England and 
>colleagues warn in a letter in BJU (British Journal of Urology) 
>International.
>
>While he and his colleagues typically see just one or two such cases a 
>year, if any, Philip told Reuters Health, they treated four different 2- 
>to 4-year-old boys with penile crush injuries in the past several months.
>Story continues below ?advertisement | your ad here
>
>"Thankfully all of the four had only the foreskin swelling, but obviously 
>there's a lot of anxiety for the parents and the kids," Philip said. All 
>of the boys were kept in the hospital overnight until they were able to 
>urinate, but none of them suffered lasting physical damage, he added.
>
>In each case, the youngster was trying to urinate on his own and had 
>lifted the toilet seat, only to have it fall back down. An industry report 
>states that wooden toilet seats are becoming more popular as a possible 
>explanation for the increase in injuries.
>
>Philip and his colleagues offer the following tips to help families of 
>young boys prevent these injuries from happening:
>
>    * Install "soft fall" toilet seats in every bathroom in the home, and 
>ban heavy toilet seats made of wood or ceramic from homes with young boys.
>    * Leave the toilet seat up at all times, until all of the boys in the 
>household can hold the seat up on their own.
>    * Supervise children every time they visit the bathroom.
>
>Constant supervision can be difficult, Philip conceded, especially during 
>holiday gatherings when a youngster may steal off on his own to 
>demonstrate his newly-found skill. "Children want to show that they are 
>independent," he said.

They would need to be hung to pretty heroic proportions to be at risk
of clamping their penis with the toilet seat. This doesn't sound that
probable. Their injuries are most likely of some other cause than
toilet seats.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:04 EST 2009
Article: 1975465 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:46:10 +0100, "albertus.magnus XLIV."
 wrote:

>
>"Graf Rotz von Juckemich"  wrote:
>
>shit

You're just another murderous moron with the morals of a pit viper.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:05 EST 2009
Article: 1975550 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLOCAUST FAQ: Auschwitz-Birkenau: Layman's Guide (1/2)
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:34:47 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:o8pdl4hv00ttma7tsdevphra5f7dfssn53@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 20:57:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:j49cl45899s6f79p4sgkgv2cpek27k92bp@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:05:26 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>news:rh6bl4145l7cc6ufqr30fmcskgq68j0kqm@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 19:16:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 26/12/08"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>>>news:vmh9l4pjuh7qvu9slsnst5j1ba5h1r7h0l@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:56:53 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 
>24/12/08"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>>>>>news:mec4l4924tbmc8t54c1cfa2lt646bef1t7@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:02:10 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 
>>>23/12/08"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>news:Ud94l.318$%v1.279@edtnps83: 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Everytime someone disagrees with them they will go on a search 
>>>and
>>>>>>>>>>>> destroy mission do discredit anyone who does not eat the 
>>>holocaust 
>>>>>>>>>saga
>>>>>>>>>>>> hook line and sinker. one just must take a good look at the 
>show 
>>>>>>>>>trials
>>>>>>>>>>>> where they do an all out effort to discredit anyone that is in 
>>>>>their
>>>>>>>>>>>> way. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Every time someone asks you a question you will call them names, 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The chief name-callers on this newsgroup are the members of the 
>>>>>local
>>>>>>>>>> holocaust™ lobby.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's true. ben hebe cramer, kosher cuny and daniel bernard most 
>>>>>>>>>certainly are the chief name callers.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That hasn't been my observation here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For you since obviously you are used to being called a cunt.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Actually no, that would be a first.  LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So you say
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, that's what I say, which is why I wrote it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which makes it totally meaningless
>> 
>> No, meaninglessness seems to be a characteristic of your writing, not
>> mine.
>
>
>Oh, it's perfectly obvious that your overwhelming characteristic is 
>knolling. You even foist some of your lies on your mother, who saw people 
>shriveled down to the size of dolls, an interesting feat considering it's 
>impossible to shrink bones.

Stick your head back into the sand.  LOL

If the rest of your crap is as silly as what you have said above, then
there isn't much point to any continuation of discussions with you.




> But she wouldn't lie, would she? Or how fast 
>and furious you are backpedalling away from your claim that no one has 
>ever claimed mile high flames over the firebombed cities...only to be 
>shown two "revisionist" sites that make that very claim.
>
>So Mr Meaningless, dazzle us with your tap dancing
>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Generally Ben and the others
>>>>>>>> respond to ad hominem attacks by McVey and consorts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually, you would be hard pressed to find any responses by the 
>filth 
>>>>>>>mongers, cramer kc and bernard, that isn't an ad hominem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Of course this has nothing to do with the general idiocy of kunt 
>>>>>knoll.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anybody who expresses any doubt at all, even about
>>>>>>>>>> the most preposterous of the holocaust™ stories, is immediately
>>>>>>>>>> shouted down as a new Hitler, a Nazi, a denier, or whatever else 
>>>>>they
>>>>>>>>>> can dredge up to call people.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Interesting assertion. You seem to have a general antipathy to 
>>>>>>>responding 
>>>>>>>>>to criticism of your remarks. You also seem to have a very strong, 
>>>one 
>>>>>>>>>would almost say racial, hatred of the Allies which you aren't 
>>>adverse 
>>>>>>>to 
>>>>>>>>>repeating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've seen this technique in use before, and I'm not impressed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No one is impressed by your groups use of this technique.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Various
>>>>>>>>>> insane homophobes regularly use the same techniques by 
>immediately
>>>>>>>>>> branding any gay person as a "child molestor", even though all 
>the
>>>>>>>>>> available statistics say otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What you aren't addressing is the proclivity of your group, when 
>>>>>pressed 
>>>>>>>>>into a corner, to project their perversions on others.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The homophobic lobby is full of shit,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yet I do not recall ever seeing you telling this to cramer, kc or 
>>>>>daniel 
>>>>>>>>>bernard when they bring it up. Do you have a problem telling them 
>>>your 
>>>>>>>>>feelings?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and so apparently is the holocaust™ lobby. Both lobbies are
>>>>>>>>>> running on empty, and hence need to resort to rhetoric and
>>>>>>>>>> intimidation to keep their nonsense upright.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, your group has been on empty so long, it has lost track of 
>its 
>>>>>>>>>position
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>intimidate and knoll, but you never answer questions
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ad6dnf_hxpIQYc3UnZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>>>>>message 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:4950e1e3$0$4780$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Ben Cramer"  >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Toivo Kottarainen"  wrote in 
>>>>>>>message 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:494fa495$0$4789$9b536df3@news.fv.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I do not need one gord . While living in Nuremberg whe the 
>>>>>show
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>trial was on id did listening to it every day. What irks 
>me 
>>>>>the 
>>>>>>>>>most
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>is when the accused wanted to give an explanatotion. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>transmission was interrupted and we were allowed to the 
>>>>>>>religious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>service of the local Synagogue. You must also remember it 
>>>was 
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Germans who did pay for the rebuilding of the synagoe war 
>>>time 
>>>>>>>by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the allied. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As a former Nuremberger, You may also be familiar with 
>this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * The Nuremberg Laws were designed by Hitler to define the 
>>>>>>>status 
>>>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews in Germany and to restrict them in political and 
>social 
>>>>>>>life.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which was a very clever move, given the yids had all but 
>>>>>>>destroyed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany and had publicly stated that their goal was to 
>finish 
>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From this I understand that You are not a denier of The 
>>>>>Holocaust 
>>>>>>>>>but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a justifier of it, belonging to the group B of revisionists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Topi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's the yids who have declared me to be a denier sunschein, 
>>>>>simply 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I don't swallow the entire story wholesale.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lay off the vodkkka.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>BTW, I thought you had plonked me. Yet another failure of your 
>>>>>computer 
>>>>>>>>>skills?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:05 EST 2009
Article: 1975551 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: holocaust deniers logic. What tells the DOGMA. 900 workers and a lot of jobs.
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:31:22 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:eapdl4tmssak19d8ukcto4mjihffqnritd@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:18:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:l5acl4dp8o6v4r6qtlna3m3i1snbtf9s8s@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 05:15:24 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 27/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>>>news:2g7bl45eptrp798nks8hbc3h3dbq0s1uop@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 26 Dec 2008 12:46:49 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  [preposterous insanity crap deleted]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>In article <20k9l4dsq5t947j9rqdpe59qj5mk2qpvim@4ax.com>,
>>>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[snippage]
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/camps/belsen/kramer.shtml
>>>>>Joseph Kramer,  commandant of Belsen.  Also served
>>>>>in Auschwitz.  Hanged.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://max.mmvi.de/ssfrauen/bormann.jpg
>>>>>Johanna Bormann,  female member of the SS.  Served in
>>>>>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/SS-Women.jpg
>>>>>More female members of the SS,  who served in Belsen.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/OldPhotos/FranzHoessler.jpg
>>>>>SS Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler.  Served  in
>>>>>Auschwitz and Belsen.  Hanged
>>>>>
>>>> I'm familiar with the various allied atrocities in postwar Germany.
>>>> You don't need to remind me of the actions of various allied kangaroo
>>>> courts.
>>>> 
>>>> There is a reason that one of the first things that happened when
>>>> power was restored to German authorities was the abolition of the
>>>> death penalty. The allied kangaroo courts put far more people to death
>>>> than Justice Freisler's court ever did.
>>>> 
>>>
>>>What about ALL of the courts
>> 
>> Death penalty cases generally went to the supreme court in Germany,
>> which at that time was the court of Justice Freisler.
>> 
>> 
>
>Generally. So, what about ALL of the courts? Of course it doesn't really 
>matter. There were more german kangaroos that deserved the death sentence.

So, you're not all that different from the Nazis you like to bash. You
have absolutely no commitment to justice or decency, which is what I
have suspected all along.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:06 EST 2009
Article: 1975552 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:38:12 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> The world would be a better more humane place if Israel didn't exist.
>
>The world would be a better more humane place if Germany didn't exist.

European civilization wouldn't exist. There is no Europe without
Germany. Germany is the centre-piece, the jewel of European
civilization.

>
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
>
>
>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>
>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>
>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>
>   


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:07 EST 2009
Article: 1975554 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:19:30 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>lamevas@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 3:29 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>> lame...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 10:36 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> Next, they will tell us that they are the victims and call you an
>>>>>> antisemite for even mentioning the innocents these ZioScum murdered.
>>>>>> They will continue to murder innocent and helpless people until
>>>>>> somebody steps on them.
>>>>>> On Dec 27, 3:22 pm, last_permutat...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> America of course officially approves.
>>>>>>> GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded the
>>>>>>> Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people in the
>>>>>>> bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years.
>>>>>>> Palestinian militants responded with rocket salvoes that killed an
>>>>>>> Israeli man and wounded several others, medics said.
>>>>>>> The missiles struck as children were leaving school, leading to
>>>>>>> widespread confusion and panic.
>>>>>>> Plumes of black smoke rose above Gaza City, as sirens wailed and
>>>>>>> mothers ran through the rubble searching desperately for their
>>>>>>> children.
>>>>>>> Television footage showed Gaza City hospitals crowded with people and
>>>>>>> civilians transporting the wounded in their cars.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> So lessee, one Israeli dead, nearly 200 Palestinians dead so far;  the
>>>>>>> number keeps rising.
>>>>> Let me see, Palestinian Arabs can attack and kill all the Jews they
>>>>> wish, but if the Israelis try to go after the killers, they are wrong.
>>>>> Do I have it right?
>>>> Check the word "disproportionate" in the dictionary.
>>> When Hams attacks Israeli civilians, the Israelis try to tack out the
>>> source of the attack.
>> 
>> Women and children? Israel can do better than that
>
>Pay attention.
>
>Palestinian terrorists deliberately locate their batteries and such in 
>heavily populated areas, this makes it difficult, if not impossible for 
>the Israelis to attack them without killing civilians. When Israel does 
>attack, and civilians are killed, the terrorists get a PR boost from 
>gullible people such as you.

Bullshit.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:07 EST 2009
Article: 1975556 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:36:14 -0800 (PST), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Dec 27, 4:24 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:21:00 -0800 (PST), Warhol 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 27 dec, 16:14,jgarbuz wrote:
>> >> On Dec 27, 10:08 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > ISRAEL'S air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip
>> >> > today killing at least 140 people and wounding 200 medical officials say.
>>
>> >> > The strikes targeted several police compounds of the the radical Islamic
>> >> > group Hamas, the elected leaders of Palestine.<
>>
>> >> Israel has to do to the elected leaders of Hamas the same as what the
>> >> USAF did to the elected leaders of Nazi Germany:bomb them into their
>> >> bunkers and hopefully Hamas will shoot or poison themselves too.
>>
>> >It shows who the real terrorists are. The zionists.
>>
>> Israel is just another vicious settler-state.<
>
>You mean like the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand? No unlike the
>former, we Jews did not exterminate the people living on our land in
>our absence. That was perhaps the mistake made in 1948.

You're in the vile business of doing that now.

Incidentally, Canada did not annihilate its native population. You are
confusing us with the vicious USA, your evil patron.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:07 EST 2009
Article: 1975558 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:39:35 -0800 (PST), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Dec 27, 4:24 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 07:14:36 -0800 (PST),jgarbuz
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Dec 27, 10:08 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> >> ISRAEL'S air force fired about 30 missiles at targets in the Gaza Strip
>> >> today killing at least 140 people and wounding 200 medical officials say.
>>
>> >> The strikes targeted several police compounds of the the radical Islamic
>> >> group Hamas, the elected leaders of Palestine.<
>>
>> >Israel has to do to the elected leaders of Hamas the same as what the
>> >USAF did to the elected leaders of Nazi Germany:bomb them into their
>> >bunkers and hopefully Hamas will shoot or poison themselves too.
>>
>> So you're not really against war crimes in principle, just when they
>> impact on your favourite folk.<
>
>It's not a crime to kill those coming to kill you. They taunted and
>begged for war and "martydom," so I hope Israel gives them plenty of
>it in spades.  It's what they say they want. to die fighting the
>"infidels." So let them take their families to Muzzie paradise and
>enjoy the virgins waiting for them.

You will eventually be dropped by your patron, and on that day the
bill for your crimes will come due.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:08 EST 2009
Article: 1975559 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 19:40:14 -0800 (PST), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Dec 27, 4:24 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:14:30 -0500, xpene...@earthlink.net wrote:
>>
>> >>One accidentally struck a northern Gaza house killing two Palestinian
>> >>sisters, aged five and 13, and wounding a third, Palestinian medics say.
>>
>> >You've got this part ass backwards.  It was a Hamas misfired rocket
>> >that killed the two sisters.
>>
>> Even if that were true, and I rather doubt it, the Israeli monsters
>> and mass-murderers have massacred thousands of children over the years
>> to maintain their illegal blood-bespattered murderous settler-state.<
>
>The problem was, that they should have killed millions, not
>"thousands."

LOL

So tell me, how do you differ from the Nazis you like to excoriate?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:08 EST 2009
Article: 1975561 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:40:54 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> That position at least makes some sense. All this harping about
>> qualifications is just obfuscation.
>
>Qakifications are a guarantee of a certain minimal standard.
>
>Would you allow yourself to be operated on by a person who had learned how
>to remove tonsils through self instruction, but had never attended medical
>school?

I probably wouldn't, but that isn't the issue here. Testing a wall for
cyanide residue using a chemical testing kit isn't all that different
>from the pool boy testing the pool water for chlorine using a chemical
testing kit. Nobody has ever suggested that the pool boy needs a PhD
to validate his test results.

>
>Would you accept such a person as an expert witness for the defense if you
>had initiated a complaint against a surgeon for malpractice?
>
>The Leuchter report reveals clearly that its author was in way beyond his
>depth. Its primary error is Leuchter's contention that the structures and
>ruins that he examined could not possibly have been used for gassing
>humans because they lacked the engineering safety features that are
>attributes of American penal gas chambers, and that the minute traces of
>cyanide exposure found in them after more than four decades of exposure to
>the elements are the consequeces of routine but undocumented fumigations.
>Since it takes far higher concentrations of and longer eposure to cyanide
>to fumigate an enclosure than it does to kill people, any place that could
>be fumigated using the cyanide generated by Zyklon-B could also be used to
>kill people using the cyanide generated by Zyklon-B, the lack of
>engineering safety features notwithstanding. Zyklon-B was specifically
>developed as a product that would allow a competent exterminator to expose
>perfectly ordinary rooms, buildings, ships, train cars, and even tents,
>none of them having engineering safety features, to the high concentratios
>of cyanide needed for killing vermin, concentrations as much as fifty
>times higher than what is necessary for killing humans.
>
>According to Leuchter's logic the fatal accidents involving cyanide
>poisoning that happen in tanks, ship holds, and wells cannot occur because
>the structures in question lack the enginering safety features that are
>attributes of American penal gas chambers.
>
>Its second, equally absurd, argument is that carbon monoxide is unsuitable
>as an execution gas because the people locked into a sealed room who were
>forced to breathe it would die of suffocation before it could kill them.
>Once again, the thousands of fatal accidents involving carbon momoxide
>poisoning that take place every year belie Leuchter's claim.
>
>No court or scientifically literate person would accept a document making
>such claims as expert witness testimony, nor would they accept the author
>of such a document as competent in the area concerned.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:09 EST 2009
Article: 1975591 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:51:51 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> European civilization wouldn't exist. There is no Europe without
>> Germany. Germany is the centre-piece, the jewel of European
>> civilization.
>
Your nizkor historical fiction does not change the facts. Germany was,
and is, one of the principal pillars of European civilization, the
greatest civilization the world has ever known.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:09 EST 2009
Article: 1975592 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gaza Massacre -- PHOTOS
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:17:01 GMT, "drref"
 wrote:

>
>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>news:koA5l.905$z%.857@edtnps82...
>> Was there a Jewish nation before 1948 ?. where did all the Jews come from.
>> KK
>a- historically there was

That is highly doubtful. Judaism is a religion, not a nation or a
race. Ancient Israel became extinct with the Babylonian Captivity, but
the religion known as Judaism survived with new adherents.

>b- There was no Palesimian nation ever

No, there were never any Palesimians, only Palestinian people. If
Palestinians are simians, then so are Jews. They are the same ethnic
stock, at least real Jews are.

>These people are nothing but thugs, so Israel is going to defend its people 
>against terrorists like Hamas that indiscriminately kill their own people," 
>Johndroe said in Texas as President George W. Bush was spending the week 
>before New Year's at his ranch here. "They need to stop. We have said in the 
>past that they have a choice to make. You can't have one foot in politics 
>and one foot in terror." 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:10 EST 2009
Article: 1975594 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gaza Massacre -- PHOTOS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 06:52:09 -0800 (PST), Aviroce
 wrote:

>These Israelis are colonial settlers and they will be unsettled.  Your
>people are the real thugs.

I've seen a few TV interviews with Israeli settlers and they are
disgusting beyond words. They make Aryan nations fanatics sound
reasonable by contrast.

>
>
>On Dec 28, 9:17 am, "drref"  wrote:
>> "Aviroce"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:c25557b0-21b0-4537-9866-73038e248dc1@m22g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>> The change in definition of a "semite" originated with me.  I never
>> was wrong.  A semite is now a Jew.  A semite is an atrocious savage.
>> A jew is an atrocious savage.  Enjoy the blood as it changes to yours.
>>
>> These people are nothing but thugs, so Israel is going to defend its people
>> against terrorists like Hamas that indiscriminately kill their own people,"
>> Johndroe said in Texas as President George W. Bush was spending the week
>> before New Year's at his ranch here. "They need to stop. We have said in the
>> past that they have a choice to make. You can't have one foot in politics
>> and one foot in terror."


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:11 EST 2009
Article: 1975598 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gaza Massacre -- PHOTOS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 07:03:37 -0800 (PST), Peace Power
 wrote:

>On Dec 28, 6:52 am, Aviroce  wrote:
>> These Israelis are colonial settlers and they will be unsettled.  Your
>> people are the real thugs.
>
>jeffie knws that - it is the reason jeffie is posting so much, scared
>of another Holocaust(tm) over the latest fiasco in Gaza committed by
>irsraHELL.

Neo-Israel will eventually suffer the same fate as the European
crusader states on that same site. Decent people everywhere will
rejoice when that day arrives.

>
>It looks as though the zionist-jews are making arrangements for
>another Holocaust(tm).
>This time, the world will not come and put their lives on the line or
>their pocket books to help the Jews, since everyone is fed up with
>what zionist have done to Judaism. People no longer distinguish the
>difference between a zionist and a Jew. The recent actions of israel
>are not the only reason the world is completely fed up with zionist,
>there are the bank scandals, the endless multitude of jewish lobbies
>that run foreign policies for governments, holding dual israeli/
>American, etc.. citizenship.
>
>Gaza, 27 December, 2008: The day Israel betrayed peace-loving Jews,
>creating world wide anti-Semitism:
>
>It has been the age-old intention of Zionism to intentionally stir up
>anti-Semitism anywhere possible, and even more commonly, to take
>advantage of any Jewish suffering anywhere in order to enhance its
>cause. Indeed, hatred of Jews and Jewish suffering is the oxygen of
>the Zionist movement, and from the very beginning has been to
>deliberately incite hatred of the Jew and then, in feigned horror, use
>it to justify the existence of the Zionist state – this is, of course,
>Machiavellianism raised to the highest degree. Thus, the Zionists
>thrive on hatred and suffering of Jews, and seek to benefit thereby
>through keeping Jews in perpetual fear, causing them to ignore the
>true nature of Zionism, and instead to consider the Zionist state is
>their salvation.
>
>http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/zanda.cfm
>
>Section 50 of the Hague Convention forbids collective punishment of a
>civilian population
>in response to actions perpetrated by individual members of that
>population.
>
>“Civilian objects shall not be the object of attack or of
>reprisals.” (Geneva Conventions, Protocol 1, art.52(1)
>
>PHOTOS OF THE CHANUKAH MASSACRE:
>http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/12/28/photos-of-the-chanukah-massacre/
>
>> On Dec 28, 9:17 am, "drref"  wrote:
>>
>> > "Aviroce"  wrote in message
>>
>> >news:c25557b0-21b0-4537-9866-73038e248dc1@m22g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
>> > The change in definition of a "semite" originated with me.  I never
>> > was wrong.  A semite is now a Jew.  A semite is an atrocious savage.
>> > A jew is an atrocious savage.  Enjoy the blood as it changes to yours.
>>
>> > These people are nothing but thugs, so Israel is going to defend its people
>> > against terrorists like Hamas that indiscriminately kill their own people,"
>> > Johndroe said in Texas as President George W. Bush was spending the week
>> > before New Year's at his ranch here. "They need to stop. We have said in the
>> > past that they have a choice to make. You can't have one foot in politics
>> > and one foot in terror."


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:11 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: fucking jews paid visit to gaza
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:13:45 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"PB1952"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gj7rqa$2ue$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> "PB1952"  wrote in message 
>> news:gj7rd4$u65$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6rovovF1vgv4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1102100/Israel-takes-bloody-revenge-More-200-killed-Gaza-strikes-halt-Hamas-rockets.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the name of the town you live in?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I suddenly realised my question could be misread  as a threat,
>> It's not.
>> I was going to suggest that you imagine missiles raining down on you on a 
>> regular basis .
>> What would you want your government to do about it? Nothing?
>> -- 
>> PB1952@gmail.com
>>
>
>i agree and see the point you are making but you donot throw 670kilos of 
>explosives on innocent people. israel should accept the fact that the hamas 
>government was elected in a fair election and should accept the 
>consequences.on the other hand the rockets used by the terrorists are 
>nothing but firecrackers and donoto harm in anyway.
>
>as long as israel refuses to enbter into negotiations with hamas nothing 
>will change 

USreal is all infavour of democratic elections as long as they are
rigged to go in favour of USreal.

Israel and its American patrons really don't like democracy at all.
They prefer to deal with strong-men and dictators whom they can
control more easily.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:12 EST 2009
Article: 1975601 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews paid visit to gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:10:48 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"PB1952"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gj7rd4$u65$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:6rovovF1vgv4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1102100/Israel-takes-bloody-revenge-More-200-killed-Gaza-strikes-halt-Hamas-rockets.html
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the name of the town you live in?
> that is confidentiual information i donot want to get a visit by the mossad 

Quite appart from that possibility is the chance of encountering
zionist arsonists or murderers.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:12 EST 2009
Article: 1975718 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds.  Way to go, again, ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4p2gl41a57k28anvbvh3ibhhqmhkrqe3ll@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:39:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:%SP5l.1687$%v1.1367@edtnps83: 
>
>> You have a simple mind mentality could it because you are living on
>> stolen land.
>
>But you proved that Jews have always lived there.
>
>
> After more than 2000 year absence the is no such thin as
>> ancestral right.
>
>
>Then there is no ancestral right for ethnic germans in any country they 
>were forced out of.

Those claims are a lot more recent than 2000 years, and they are much
better supported than Jewish claims based on religious myths.

>
>
> The main interest of the jewie state is exterminate all
>> the Palestinians.
>
>
>You are Jewish
>
>
> Do you know of any other race is having so much more
>> that Palestinians who have liver there for centuries.
>
>
>Yes, you remember, you lived in germany.
>
>
> You consider your
>> self very lucky with your primitive American basic education out there.
>
>What education do you have?
>
>
>
>> You have noting do be proud of go back to your comic boos you are only
>> an undereducated vegetable.
>
>
>Why is it you try to intimidate?
>
>
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>> "Ich bin ein Amerikaner"  wrote in message 
>> news:cg7fl41s85dv1484j7i5034rn2dbd0hs36@4ax.com...
>>> David Hartung    wrote:
>>>
>>>>last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> America of course officially approves.
>>>>>
>>>>> GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded the
>>>>> Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people in
>>>>> the bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Palestinian militants responded with rocket salvoes that killed an
>>>>> Israeli man and wounded several others, medics said.
>>>>>
>>>>> The missiles struck as children were leaving school, leading to
>>>>> widespread confusion and panic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plumes of black smoke rose above Gaza City, as sirens wailed and
>>>>> mothers ran through the rubble searching desperately for their
>>>>> children.
>>>>>
>>>>> Television footage showed Gaza City hospitals crowded with people and
>>>>> civilians transporting the wounded in their cars.
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> So lessee, one Israeli dead, nearly 200 Palestinians dead so far; 
>>>>> the number keeps rising.
>>>>
>>>>The article tells us what Israel did. Why did they do it?
>>>>
>>>>Historically, Israel does not just randomly attack and kill
>>>>Palestinians, they always have a reason, and usually, it is a pretty
>>>>good reason.
>>>
>>> The reasons why Israel retaliates is quite forward. The Palestinians
>>> under Hamas rule are retards. They do not understand the concept of
>>> cause and effect. If Gaza insists on launching rockets and grenades
>>> into Israel, expect the consequences. Don't whine about it.
>>>
>>> I don't feel sorry for the Gazans.
>>>
>>> ===USA===
>>>
>>> Justice will be served
>>> And the battle will rage
>>> This big dog will fight
>>> When you rattle his cage
>>> And youll be sorry that you messed with
>>> The U.S. of A.
>>> cause well put a boot in your ass
>>> Its the American way
>>>
>>> -Toby Keith, "Courtesy Of The Red, White & Blue" 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:13 EST 2009
Article: 1975719 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:56:33 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Tim Miller   wrote:
>
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>>> Your nizkor historical fiction does not change the facts. Germany was,
>>> and is, one of the principal pillars of European civilization, the
>>> greatest civilization the world has ever known.
>
>> Welcome to Earth! What color is the sky on YOUR planet??
>
>Shit-brown,  like an SA shirt.

Poor little moron a-very-little-sanity has spoken.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:13 EST 2009
Article: 1975720 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:38:03 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Your nizkor historical fiction does not change the facts. Germany was,
>> and is, one of the principal pillars of European civilization, the
>> greatest civilization the world has ever known.
>
 [historical fiction by nizkor deleted]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:14 EST 2009
Article: 1975722 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:59:14 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Israel is a fake nation and the biggest terrorist state in the region.
>> The fact that it produces no oil is all the more reason to call
>> it worthless to the United States.
>
>Upon what facts do you base this opinion?

Religious myths and "facts" are two different things.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:14 EST 2009
Article: 1975723 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 16:57:06 GMT, Ich bin ein Amerikaner
 wrote:

>With Barney the Dinosaur as a mentor,  last_permutation@yahoo.com
>wrote:
>
>>On Dec 27, 1:34 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> > On Dec 27, 5:53 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>> >> Bent Attorney wrote:
>>> >>> Had Jewish people emigrated there
>>> >>> peacefully you would not have this problem.
>>> >> The original Jewish immigrants to Palestine wanted nothing more than to
>>> >> live in peace. They bought their land, and did endeavored to live in
>>> >> peace with their neighbors.
>>>
>>> > This is a lie. Jews started terrorizing and wiping out Palestinian
>>> > villages long before the UN resolution creating Israel.
>>>
>>> I would be interested in seeing your source for this information.
>>>
>>> > Most Palestinians would accept two states based on the UN resolution
>>> > creating Israel but the Jews do not want peace.
>>>
>>> You are aware that Jordan was created as a Palestinian state?
>>>
>>> You are aware that the West Bank and Gaza were taken by Israel in a
>>> defensive war?
>>>
>>> You are aware that since the creation of Israel, in every war between
>>> the Arabs and Israel, the Arabs were the aggressors?
>>>
>>> > The illegal settlements,
>>>
>>> Illegal according to whom?
>>>
>>> > collective punishment of an entire population, bulldozing
>>> > of Palestinian homes, murdering of Palestinian men, women and children
>>> > are designed to destroy the Palestinians.
>>>
>>> Have you considered that all of the above actions were in response to
>>> attacks on Israelis? Usually in response to attacks on unarmed Israeli
>>> civilians.
>>>
>>> > The Jew media would have us believe that it is the Palestinians and
>>> > not the Jews who are the aggressors and the real terrorists.
>>>
>>> You sir, are a bigot.
>>
>>Me thinks me beginning to smell bagels and lox.
>
>Kosher predates Halal by several centuries.
>
>===USA===
>
>Justice will be served
>And the battle will rage
>This big dog will fight
>When you rattle his cage
>And youll be sorry that you messed with
>The U.S. of A.
>cause well put a boot in your ass
>Its the American way
>
>-Toby Keith, "Courtesy Of The Red, White & Blue"

"Ich bin ein Amerikaner" ist eigentlich nur ein Arschloch.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:15 EST 2009
Article: 1975770 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli blockade forces Palestinians to suffer the consequences  of their actions
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:15:23 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:TPS5l.1016$z%.684@edtnps82: 
>
>> All I see here is a holocaust against the Palestinians.
>
>Oh my god, are the germans in palestine?

No, far worse, Israelis.
>
>
>And there are
>> still of under educated idiots and the that trust the Jews.
>
>
>There is no one that trusts the Jew knoll.
>
> First they
>> steal the Palestinians homeland and then play Russian roiled with the
>> Palestinian rights.
>
>
>How can you steal what is yours?
>
>
>And the do get away with murder what their press is
>> reporting to us is only a tiny fraction what really goes on in the
>> middle east.
>
>
>How do you know what is going on in the middle east if no one is reporting 
>it?
>
>
> Kurt Knoll
>>  wrote in message 
>> news:GoR5l.1584$BC4.1231@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>>>
>>> On 26-Dec-2008, Lazarus Cain  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Dec 23, 2:46 pm, a-little-sanity,  please 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > In article ,
>>>> > Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj  wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > It's actually the other way around.
>>>> > > The Palestinians shoot of a couple of rockets and the Israelis
>>>> > > answer with a large artillery barrage + a bombing air strike.
>>>> >
>>>> > Let's see. The Palestinians have been shooting at Israeli cities
>>>> > for weeks now. When was the last time that Israelis answered
>>>> > "with a large artillery barrage" or "a bombing air strike"?
>>>>
>>>> LEBANON???????
>>>
>>> As well they should - & thanks for proving us all correct.
>>>
>>> Susan 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:15 EST 2009
Article: 1975771 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:30:32 -0800 (PST), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=6794
>
>Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
>
>by Bill Levinson
>Now that Israel has FINALLY retaliated against Hamas for Hamas’
>ongoing litany of mindless violence and breaches of regional peace, it
>needs to heed the advice of the British air marshal who supervised the
>bombing campaigns of the Second World War. With regard to
>justification of the bombing campaign in the first place, just replace
>“Nazis” with “Palestinians” (easy enough) and the names of the Allied
>cities with those of the Israeli cities at which the Palestinians have
>fired rockets.
>
>
>      The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion
>that they were going to bomb everyone else,

That is nonsense. It was the allies who owned the holocaust fleet, not
Germany. The allies had already planned mass civilian atrocities by
1935 and built the type of aircraft needed for this type of
dishonourable work.

> and nobody was going to
>bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw,

You have your timeline all wrong, ejaculito. Rotterdam was a defended
city as was Warsaw. Both places had German armies on the ground in a
position to capture them, so the bombardments were quite legal. London
was only attacked after a series of terrorst attacks against Berlin.

Celebrating harris is like celebrating Eichmann. You're a complete
arsehole, ejaculito.






 and half a hundred other
>places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed
>the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
>
>
>With regard to the advisability of using Israeli ground troops (who
>would suffer heavily in combat with guerrillas–house to house fighting
>is a combat soldier’s worst nightmare):
>
>      I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of
>Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.
>
>The whole of Gaza is similarly not worth the bones of one IDF soldier,
>if bombing the place into rubble will end the conflict without ground
>combat. Civilian casualties are admittedly regrettable, but they are
>the responsibility of the Hamas terrorists who hide among civilians
>(often with the civilians’ consent and encouragement, because they
>support Hamas’ agenda of terror). Harris had some good advice about
>this too:
>
>      The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously
>stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German
>workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany.
>
>      It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public
>utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on
>an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and
>at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are
>accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-
>products of attempts to hit factories.
>
>A similar bombing campaign by the IAF should similarly traumatize the
>population of Gaza to such an extent that the dazed and vacant-eyed
>survivors will never again think of lifting a finger to Israel, or
>being caught in possession of so much as a model rocket (let alone a
>Katyusha). Even if some might still be inclined to commit violence,
>they will not have the means to commit it because they will be
>struggling to find enough to eat in the rubble.
>
>The above may sound harsh, but most normal people learn in
>kindergarten not to hit other people unless they want to be hit back.
>Most adults know that you don’t shoot at other people (even in the
>absence of police) unless you want them to shoot back at you. As
>stated by Harris, Nazi Germany did not understand this, or did not
>care, so England turned Dresden into a giant crematorium. Hamas
>clearly does not understand this either, so Israel is 100 percent
>justified in turning Gaza into a giant crematorium if that is what it
>takes to make the rockets and mortar shells stop.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:16 EST 2009
Article: 1975772 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: UK and Vatican Call for Cease Fire in Gaza
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:39:42 -0800 (PST), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=6837
>
>UK and Vatican Call for Cease Fire in Gaza
>
>by Bill Levinson
>
>The United Kingdom has called for an “immediate halt” to violence in
>Gaza, while the Pope called upon “all sides” to end the violence.
>
>We do not recall either Britain or the Vatican speaking up when Hamas
>was pouring rockets and mortar shells into Israel.

Israel is an illegal settler-state and illegal occupier of somebody
else's country. The Israelis need to end their oppressive occupation
that makes German occupations in Europe during WW2 look postively
benign by comparison.





> We therefore do not
>see why Israel should even listen to anything that either entity has
>to say now that Hamas is reaping what it has sown.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:16 EST 2009
Article: 1975773 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:18:31 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:JpU5l.1813$%v1.954@edtnps83: 
>
>> Israel was created with deception. It was created with the power of
>> American who did have the greatest influence in the UN.
>
>Not true. It's the Jewish homeland, even you admitted Jews have always 
>been there

There have indeed been a handful of Jews in that area, but most of
them were dumped in later.

>
>
>
>
>> After the ottoman empire did collapse. and part of Jordan.
>
>
>No, before that.
>
>
> The first contingent of
>> the Jews from Russia did settle in about 1882.
>
>
>Interesting, can you show us the census records? Originals, no copies.
>
>
> Today the Jews tell us
>> they have always been in Palestine.
>
>
>So do you.
>
> This certainly is an outright lie.
>
>Then it is a lie you told
>
>
>
>> but with the help of America it did make or created a turmoil.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message 
>> news:9ZSdnYUQ5_IgmcXUnZ2dnUVZ_h0AAAAA@giganews.com...
>>> last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Israel is a fake nation and the biggest terrorist state in the region.
>>>> The fact that it produces no oil is all the more reason to call
>>>> it worthless to the United States.
>>>
>>> Upon what facts do you base this opinion? 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:17 EST 2009
Article: 1975774 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds.  Way to go, again, ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:13:36 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:4p2gl41a57k28anvbvh3ibhhqmhkrqe3ll@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:39:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>news:%SP5l.1687$%v1.1367@edtnps83: 
>>>
>>>> You have a simple mind mentality could it because you are living on
>>>> stolen land.
>>>
>>>But you proved that Jews have always lived there.
>>>
>>>
>>> After more than 2000 year absence the is no such thin as
>>>> ancestral right.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then there is no ancestral right for ethnic germans in any country they 
>>>were forced out of.
>> 
>> Those claims are a lot more recent than 2000 years, and they are much
>> better supported than Jewish claims based on religious myths.
>
>
>They are no better supported than your mothers claim to shovel up the 
>remains of people who had shriveled to the size of dolls.

You're entitled to your delusions. You will not be able to suppress
the truth of allied crimes forever.

>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> The main interest of the jewie state is exterminate all
>>>> the Palestinians.
>>>
>>>
>>>You are Jewish
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you know of any other race is having so much more
>>>> that Palestinians who have liver there for centuries.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, you remember, you lived in germany.
>>>
>>>
>>> You consider your
>>>> self very lucky with your primitive American basic education out 
>there.
>>>
>>>What education do you have?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You have noting do be proud of go back to your comic boos you are only
>>>> an undereducated vegetable.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why is it you try to intimidate?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>> 
>>>> "Ich bin ein Amerikaner"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:cg7fl41s85dv1484j7i5034rn2dbd0hs36@4ax.com...
>>>>> David Hartung    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>> America of course officially approves.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded 
>the
>>>>>>> Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people in
>>>>>>> the bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Palestinian militants responded with rocket salvoes that killed an
>>>>>>> Israeli man and wounded several others, medics said.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The missiles struck as children were leaving school, leading to
>>>>>>> widespread confusion and panic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Plumes of black smoke rose above Gaza City, as sirens wailed and
>>>>>>> mothers ran through the rubble searching desperately for their
>>>>>>> children.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Television footage showed Gaza City hospitals crowded with people 
>and
>>>>>>> civilians transporting the wounded in their cars.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So lessee, one Israeli dead, nearly 200 Palestinians dead so far; 
>>>>>>> the number keeps rising.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The article tells us what Israel did. Why did they do it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Historically, Israel does not just randomly attack and kill
>>>>>>Palestinians, they always have a reason, and usually, it is a pretty
>>>>>>good reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reasons why Israel retaliates is quite forward. The Palestinians
>>>>> under Hamas rule are retards. They do not understand the concept of
>>>>> cause and effect. If Gaza insists on launching rockets and grenades
>>>>> into Israel, expect the consequences. Don't whine about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't feel sorry for the Gazans.
>>>>>
>>>>> ===USA===
>>>>>
>>>>> Justice will be served
>>>>> And the battle will rage
>>>>> This big dog will fight
>>>>> When you rattle his cage
>>>>> And youll be sorry that you messed with
>>>>> The U.S. of A.
>>>>> cause well put a boot in your ass
>>>>> Its the American way
>>>>>
>>>>> -Toby Keith, "Courtesy Of The Red, White & Blue" 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:17 EST 2009
Article: 1976030 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli blockade forces Palestinians to suffer the consequences  of their actions
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 22:35:13 -0800 (PST), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>On Dec 29, 4:15 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:15:23 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> >news:TPS5l.1016$z%.684@edtnps82:
>>
>> >> All I see here is a holocaust against the Palestinians.
>>
>> >Oh my god, are the germans in palestine?
>>
>> No, far worse, Israelis.
>
>In  fact there were German Templers that settled in Israel , =
>"Tempelgesselschaft,
>Templer , who built here several colonies ,,,
>Many of their children mooved later to Australia ,

The Templars were not primarily German. The German Order was German
and it still exists, but the Templars were wiped out by the French
King in the late middle ages.

>
>mirjam


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:18 EST 2009
Article: 1976031 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli blockade forces Palestinians to suffer the consequences  of their actions
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 07:49:49 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 29/12/08"
 wrote:

>mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote in
>news:731b673c-87ae-45da-927d-23a5d9592168@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com: 
>
>> On Dec 29, 4:15 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:15:23 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>>
>>>  wrote:
>>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>> >news:TPS5l.1016$z%.684@edtnps82:
>>>
>>> >> All I see here is a holocaust against the Palestinians.
>>>
>>> >Oh my god, are the germans in palestine?
>>>
>>> No, far worse, Israelis.
>> 
>> In  fact there were German Templers that settled in Israel ,
>> "Tempelgesselschaft, Templer , who built here several colonies ,,,
>> Many of their children mooved later to Australia ,
>
>
>That figures

It is also nonsense.

>
>
>> 
>> mirjam
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:18 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds.  Way to go, again, ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:24:00 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:22cgl4hmilu6e1trg41offplnf8ilma49g@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:13:36 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:4p2gl41a57k28anvbvh3ibhhqmhkrqe3ll@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:39:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>>news:%SP5l.1687$%v1.1367@edtnps83: 
>>>>>
>>>>>> You have a simple mind mentality could it because you are living on
>>>>>> stolen land.
>>>>>
>>>>>But you proved that Jews have always lived there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> After more than 2000 year absence the is no such thin as
>>>>>> ancestral right.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Then there is no ancestral right for ethnic germans in any country 
>they 
>>>>>were forced out of.
>>>> 
>>>> Those claims are a lot more recent than 2000 years, and they are much
>>>> better supported than Jewish claims based on religious myths.
>>>
>>>
>>>They are no better supported than your mothers claim to shovel up the 
>>>remains of people who had shriveled to the size of dolls.
>> 
>> You're entitled to your delusions. You will not be able to suppress
>> the truth of allied crimes forever.
>
>
>I notice that you just can't bring yourself to address the lies your 
>mother told and that you posted here. Why is that?

They are not lies and she was hardly the only person involved in
collecting the remains of the dead after an allied terrorist attack on
Frankfurt a/M.

You are full of shit, and after this latest crap you are going into a
"mark as read" filter.

>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The main interest of the jewie state is exterminate all
>>>>>> the Palestinians.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are Jewish
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know of any other race is having so much more
>>>>>> that Palestinians who have liver there for centuries.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, you remember, you lived in germany.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You consider your
>>>>>> self very lucky with your primitive American basic education out 
>>>there.
>>>>>
>>>>>What education do you have?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You have noting do be proud of go back to your comic boos you are 
>only
>>>>>> an undereducated vegetable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why is it you try to intimidate?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Ich bin ein Amerikaner"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:cg7fl41s85dv1484j7i5034rn2dbd0hs36@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> David Hartung    wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> America of course officially approves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli warplanes and combat helicopters pounded 
>>>the
>>>>>>>>> Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip on Saturday, killing at least 155 people 
>in
>>>>>>>>> the bloodiest day for Palestinians in more than 20 years.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Palestinian militants responded with rocket salvoes that killed 
>an
>>>>>>>>> Israeli man and wounded several others, medics said.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The missiles struck as children were leaving school, leading to
>>>>>>>>> widespread confusion and panic.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Plumes of black smoke rose above Gaza City, as sirens wailed and
>>>>>>>>> mothers ran through the rubble searching desperately for their
>>>>>>>>> children.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Television footage showed Gaza City hospitals crowded with people 
>>>and
>>>>>>>>> civilians transporting the wounded in their cars.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So lessee, one Israeli dead, nearly 200 Palestinians dead so far; 
>>>>>>>>> the number keeps rising.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The article tells us what Israel did. Why did they do it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Historically, Israel does not just randomly attack and kill
>>>>>>>>Palestinians, they always have a reason, and usually, it is a 
>pretty
>>>>>>>>good reason.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reasons why Israel retaliates is quite forward. The 
>Palestinians
>>>>>>> under Hamas rule are retards. They do not understand the concept of
>>>>>>> cause and effect. If Gaza insists on launching rockets and grenades
>>>>>>> into Israel, expect the consequences. Don't whine about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't feel sorry for the Gazans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ===USA===
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justice will be served
>>>>>>> And the battle will rage
>>>>>>> This big dog will fight
>>>>>>> When you rattle his cage
>>>>>>> And youll be sorry that you messed with
>>>>>>> The U.S. of A.
>>>>>>> cause well put a boot in your ass
>>>>>>> Its the American way
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Toby Keith, "Courtesy Of The Red, White & Blue" 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:23:01 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:i4cgl45r1rvahhotsa9kcse5eqqad4a112@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:18:31 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>news:JpU5l.1813$%v1.954@edtnps83: 
>>>
>>>> Israel was created with deception. It was created with the power of
>>>> American who did have the greatest influence in the UN.
>>>
>>>Not true. It's the Jewish homeland, even you admitted Jews have always 
>>>been there
>> 
>> There have indeed been a handful of Jews in that area, 
>
>
>So now we have two revisionists admitting that Jews have always been 
>there.
>
>
>> but most of them were dumped in later.
>
>
>Dumped there? By a big mysterious Mack?

No, idiot-boy, by British colonialists who had no basic rights to the
area either.

>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> After the ottoman empire did collapse. and part of Jordan.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, before that.
>>>
>>>
>>> The first contingent of
>>>> the Jews from Russia did settle in about 1882.
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting, can you show us the census records? Originals, no copies.
>>>
>>>
>>> Today the Jews tell us
>>>> they have always been in Palestine.
>>>
>>>
>>>So do you.
>>>
>>> This certainly is an outright lie.
>>>
>>>Then it is a lie you told
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> but with the help of America it did make or created a turmoil.
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>> 
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>> 
>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:9ZSdnYUQ5_IgmcXUnZ2dnUVZ_h0AAAAA@giganews.com...
>>>>> last_permutation@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Israel is a fake nation and the biggest terrorist state in the 
>region.
>>>>>> The fact that it produces no oil is all the more reason to call
>>>>>> it worthless to the United States.
>>>>>
>>>>> Upon what facts do you base this opinion? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:20 EST 2009
Article: 1976034 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:11:04 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>Kurt Knoll wrote:
>> Israel was created with deception. It was created with the power of American 
>> who did have the greatest influence in the UN. After the ottoman empire did 
>> collapse. and part of Jordan. The first contingent of the Jews from Russia 
>> did settle in about 1882. Today the Jews tell us they have always been in 
>> Palestine. This certainly is an outright lie. but with the help of America 
>> it did make or created a turmoil.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
>I believe that if you do some research, you will find that there have 
>been Jews in Palestine since well before the founding of the USA. In all 
>probability, there have been Jews living in that part of the world since 
>the day that the Children of Israel first crossed the Jordan. During the 
>past 2000 years, there weere likely not large numbers, but they have 
>been there.

Be that as it may, the vast bulk of today's Israelis are Russians and
Poles.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:20 EST 2009
Article: 1976035 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:12:04 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>Crash wrote:
>>  in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,  On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 David Hartung
>> said about: 
>>  Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,
>> ZioScum 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> You are aware that the West Bank and Gaza were taken by Israel in a 
>>> defensive war?
>> 
>> Claims are like assholes.   So what.  Fact is, they are
>> not part of Israel.  
>
>Check your history, who won the war in 1967.

Who cares? Winning the 1967 war entitles Israel to nothing. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:21 EST 2009
Article: 1976037 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 05:22:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 29/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:o6Z5l.1093$z%.136
>@edtnps82:
>
>> Sure the Jews won the 67 war but this does not give them ownership 
>without 
>> international consent.
>
>
>They have international consent and have had it for 50 years. Do study 
>history before proving you are a knoll

They had the permission of an organization founded, and at that time
controlled, by the USA. What is so surprising about that?

>
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message 
>> news:UomdnanyWPJyrMXUnZ2dnUVZ_oLinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Crash wrote:
>>>>  in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,  On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 David Hartung
>>>> said about: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, 
>>>> again,
>>>> ZioScum
>>>>> You are aware that the West Bank and Gaza were taken by Israel in a 
>>>>> defensive war?
>>>>
>>>> Claims are like assholes.   So what.  Fact is, they are
>>>> not part of Israel.
>>>
>>> Check your history, who won the war in 1967. 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:21 EST 2009
Article: 1976040 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:47:55 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On Dec 29, 2:21 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On Dec 28, 12:47 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 28, 11:15 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>> Karl wrote:
>>>>>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> Palestinian terrorists deliberately locate their batteries and such in
>>>>>>>>> heavily populated areas, this makes it difficult, if not impossible
>>>>>>>>> for the Israelis to attack them without killing civilians.
>>>>>>>> You tell lies.
>>>>>>>> Israel uses Palestinian children as shields. Look at the video of them
>>>>>>>> entering Jenin some years back. They had Palestinian woman and children
>>>>>>>> being forced ahead of them with guns in their backs.
>>>>>>> I have been wrong before, and I could be again.
>>>>>>> Post the video.
>>>>>> I have seen the video and it was disgusting. Lot of videos
>>>>>> unflattering to Jews disappears.
>>>>> Sorry, that excuse doesn't wash.
>>>> Here it is and mark my words:
>>>> There is always a pay back for everything and Jews will have to pay
>>>> the piper for all the misery they caused and cause.
>>>> Try not to whine too much when it happens.
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18058725
>>>> Israeli troops used Palestinian as human shield
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> "There is always a pay back" you said. Have you stopped to consider that
>>> Israeli excesses just might be because the Israelis are tired of the
>>> constant attacks?-
>> 
>> Some examples of ZioScum aggression are the illegal occupation, the
>> illegal settlements, the illegal wall, the illegal blockade, the
>> illegal starving and systematic extermination of Palestinians. 
>
>Illegal according to whom?

Everything Israel has done since its founding is in violation of the
very regulations that the allied hypocrites put in place after 1945.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:21 EST 2009
Article: 1976042 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 06:00:32 -0600, David Hartung 
wrote:

>Ben Cramer wrote:
>> 
>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message 
>> news:brWdnUu34oxLN8XUnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On Dec 29, 2:21 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 28, 12:47 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 11:15 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Karl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian terrorists deliberately locate their batteries and 
>>>>>>>>>>> such in
>>>>>>>>>>> heavily populated areas, this makes it difficult, if not 
>>>>>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>>>>> for the Israelis to attack them without killing civilians.
>>>>>>>>>> You tell lies.
>>>>>>>>>> Israel uses Palestinian children as shields. Look at the video 
>>>>>>>>>> of them
>>>>>>>>>> entering Jenin some years back. They had Palestinian woman and 
>>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>>> being forced ahead of them with guns in their backs.
>>>>>>>>> I have been wrong before, and I could be again.
>>>>>>>>> Post the video.
>>>>>>>> I have seen the video and it was disgusting. Lot of videos
>>>>>>>> unflattering to Jews disappears.
>>>>>>> Sorry, that excuse doesn't wash.
>>>>>> Here it is and mark my words:
>>>>>> There is always a pay back for everything and Jews will have to pay
>>>>>> the piper for all the misery they caused and cause.
>>>>>> Try not to whine too much when it happens.
>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18058725
>>>>>> Israeli troops used Palestinian as human shield
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> "There is always a pay back" you said. Have you stopped to consider 
>>>>> that
>>>>> Israeli excesses just might be because the Israelis are tired of the
>>>>> constant attacks?-
>>>>
>>>> Some examples of ZioScum aggression are the illegal occupation, the
>>>> illegal settlements, the illegal wall, the illegal blockade, the
>>>> illegal starving and systematic extermination of Palestinians.
>>>
>>> Illegal according to whom?
>> 
>> The international community has declared the settlements to be illegal, 
>> as has the United Nations.
>
>I see.
>
>Israel took possession of the West bank and of Gaza during the 2967 war, 
>in which Egypt and Jordan were among the aggressors.
>
>It seems to me that Israel has earned both territories, 

Nobody can acquire territory by conquest. The West Bank and Gaza are
under Israeli occupation, and at no point were they annexed, an action
which would also have been illegal.




>and that the 
>international community has no business inserting itself into the equation.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:22 EST 2009
Article: 1976044 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: fucking jews kill 140 in airraids
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:04:19 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:0ipdl4t0ujpaohqegec5ofa26befosakkc@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:46:10 +0100, "albertus.magnus XLIV."
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Graf Rotz von Juckemich"  wrote:
>>>
>>>shit
>>
>> You're just another murderous moron with the morals of a pit viper.
>
>It's the same individual as that "I'll always be here" thing.
>
>Ignore it and it will have nothing to respond to.
>
Thanks for the information. At this point I'm starting to think that
both of these demented "personalities" need to be added to a "mark as
read" filter.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:23 EST 2009
Article: 1976046 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 04:43:37 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:6bcgl4p7u1g8gm1gvci36cqrd5fn5quplp@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:30:32 -0800 (PST), Michael Ejercito
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=6794
>>>
>>>Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
>>>
>>>by Bill Levinson
>>>Now that Israel has FINALLY retaliated against Hamas for Hamas’
>>>ongoing litany of mindless violence and breaches of regional peace, it
>>>needs to heed the advice of the British air marshal who supervised the
>>>bombing campaigns of the Second World War. With regard to
>>>justification of the bombing campaign in the first place, just replace
>>>“Nazis” with “Palestinians” (easy enough) and the names of the Allied
>>>cities with those of the Israeli cities at which the Palestinians have
>>>fired rockets.
>>>
>>>
>>>      The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion
>>>that they were going to bomb everyone else,
>> 
>> That is nonsense. It was the allies who owned the holocaust fleet, not
>> Germany. The allies had already planned mass civilian atrocities by
>> 1935 and built the type of aircraft needed for this type of
>> dishonourable work.
>
>
>Of course it was the nazis that bombed Guernica, so it doesn't really 
>matter who had what, but it does matter who does what.

Guernica was a Spanish military operation in which, unfortunately,
some civilians were killed. By contrast, in allied bombings, the
civilians were the actual target.

>
>
>> 
>>> and nobody was going to
>>>bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw,
>> 
>> You have your timeline all wrong, ejaculito. Rotterdam was a defended
>> city as was Warsaw.
>
>
>Which has what to do with timelines?
>
> Both places had German armies on the ground in a
>> position to capture them, so the bombardments were quite legal. 
>
>That just isn't true. The germans were not anywhere near Warsaw when they 
>bombed it.
>
>
>From the very first hours of World War II, Warsaw, the capital of Poland, 
>was a target of an unrestricted aerial bombardment campaign by the German 
>Luftwaffe. Apart from the military facilities such as infantry barracks 
>and the Oke;cie airport and aircraft factory, the German pilots also 
>targeted civilian facilities such as water works, hospitals, market places 
>and schools. In addition, civilians were strafed from the air with machine 
>gun fire in what became known as a terror bombing campaign.
>
>
>The germans didn't reach Warsaw until Sept 8...so much for your grasp of 
>history
>
>
>
>
>
>About 1,150 bombing sorties by German aircraft were flown against Warsaw 
>on September 25, 1939, in an effort to terrorize the defenders into 
>surrendering. 500 tons of high explosive bombs and 72 tons of incendiary 
>bombs were dropped on the city.
>
>The Germans did not hesitate to bomb civilian targets and hospitals marked 
>with the Red Cross symbol. However, not all bombs found their intended 
>target as some bombers dropped their load in error on German troops in the 
>northwestern suburbs of the city.
>
>
>
>
>
>London
>> was only attacked after a series of terrorst attacks against Berlin.
>
>Sorry ebensdork, but you have your timeline wrong.
>
>During a raid on Thames Haven, on 24 August, some German aircraft (one 
>commanded by Rudolf Hallensleben who went on to win the Knights Cross for 
>other actions)[6] strayed over London and dropped bombs in the east and 
>northeast parts of the city, Bethnal Green, Hackney, Islington, Tottenham 
>and Finchley. This prompted the British to mount a retaliatory raid on 
>Berlin the next night with bombs falling in Kreuzberg and Wedding, causing 
>10 deaths. Hitler was said to be furious, and on 5 September, at the 
>urging of the Luftwaffe high command, he issued a directive "for 
>disruptive attacks on the population and air defences of major British 
>cities, including London, by day and night". The Luftwaffe began day and 
>night attacks on British cities, concentrating on London. This relieved 
>the pressure on the RAF's airfields.
>
>
>
>> 
>> Celebrating harris is like celebrating Eichmann. You're a complete
>> arsehole, ejaculito.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  and half a hundred other
>>>places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed
>>>the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
>>>
>>>
>>>With regard to the advisability of using Israeli ground troops (who
>>>would suffer heavily in combat with guerrillas–house to house fighting
>>>is a combat soldier’s worst nightmare):
>>>
>>>      I do not personally regard the whole of the remaining cities of
>>>Germany as worth the bones of one British Grenadier.
>>>
>>>The whole of Gaza is similarly not worth the bones of one IDF soldier,
>>>if bombing the place into rubble will end the conflict without ground
>>>combat. Civilian casualties are admittedly regrettable, but they are
>>>the responsibility of the Hamas terrorists who hide among civilians
>>>(often with the civilians’ consent and encouragement, because they
>>>support Hamas’ agenda of terror). Harris had some good advice about
>>>this too:
>>>
>>>      The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive…should be unambiguously
>>>stated [as] the destruction of German cities, the killing of German
>>>workers, and the disruption of civilized life throughout Germany.
>>>
>>>      It should be emphasized that the destruction of houses, public
>>>utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on
>>>an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and
>>>at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are
>>>accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-
>>>products of attempts to hit factories.
>>>
>>>A similar bombing campaign by the IAF should similarly traumatize the
>>>population of Gaza to such an extent that the dazed and vacant-eyed
>>>survivors will never again think of lifting a finger to Israel, or
>>>being caught in possession of so much as a model rocket (let alone a
>>>Katyusha). Even if some might still be inclined to commit violence,
>>>they will not have the means to commit it because they will be
>>>struggling to find enough to eat in the rubble.
>>>
>>>The above may sound harsh, but most normal people learn in
>>>kindergarten not to hit other people unless they want to be hit back.
>>>Most adults know that you don’t shoot at other people (even in the
>>>absence of police) unless you want them to shoot back at you. As
>>>stated by Harris, Nazi Germany did not understand this, or did not
>>>care, so England turned Dresden into a giant crematorium. Hamas
>>>clearly does not understand this either, so Israel is 100 percent
>>>justified in turning Gaza into a giant crematorium if that is what it
>>>takes to make the rockets and mortar shells stop.
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:23 EST 2009
Article: 1976095 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:06:33 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:4lhhl4pkc31l0omer7utou9r5u2sq1k6ji@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 20:12:04 -0600, David Hartung 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Crash wrote:
>>>>  in alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,  On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 David Hartung
>>>> said about:
>>>>  Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,
>>>> ZioScum
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You are aware that the West Bank and Gaza were taken by Israel in a
>>>>> defensive war?
>>>>
>>>> Claims are like assholes.   So what.  Fact is, they are
>>>> not part of Israel.
>>>
>>>Check your history, who won the war in 1967.
>>
>> Who cares? Winning the 1967 war entitles Israel to nothing.
>
>This clod seems to think that war was started by Egypt and Jordan.
>
>He's not too clued up on history.
>
Mr. Hartung seems to be another Israel apologist.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:23 EST 2009
Article: 1976099 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel continues to win hearts and minds. Way to go, again,  ZioScum
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:05:46 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:tshhl4dhtgtr9f6joano303mqhlsuopm5h@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 06:00:32 -0600, David Hartung 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message
>>>> news:brWdnUu34oxLN8XUnZ2dnUVZ_tTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 29, 2:21 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 12:47 pm, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 28, 11:15 am, David Hartung  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Karl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "David Hartung"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian terrorists deliberately locate their batteries and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> such in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavily populated areas, this makes it difficult, if not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the Israelis to attack them without killing civilians.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You tell lies.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Israel uses Palestinian children as shields. Look at the video
>>>>>>>>>>>> of them
>>>>>>>>>>>> entering Jenin some years back. They had Palestinian woman and
>>>>>>>>>>>> children
>>>>>>>>>>>> being forced ahead of them with guns in their backs.
>>>>>>>>>>> I have been wrong before, and I could be again.
>>>>>>>>>>> Post the video.
>>>>>>>>>> I have seen the video and it was disgusting. Lot of videos
>>>>>>>>>> unflattering to Jews disappears.
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, that excuse doesn't wash.
>>>>>>>> Here it is and mark my words:
>>>>>>>> There is always a pay back for everything and Jews will have to pay
>>>>>>>> the piper for all the misery they caused and cause.
>>>>>>>> Try not to whine too much when it happens.
>>>>>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18058725
>>>>>>>> Israeli troops used Palestinian as human shield
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "There is always a pay back" you said. Have you stopped to consider
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> Israeli excesses just might be because the Israelis are tired of the
>>>>>>> constant attacks?-
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some examples of ZioScum aggression are the illegal occupation, the
>>>>>> illegal settlements, the illegal wall, the illegal blockade, the
>>>>>> illegal starving and systematic extermination of Palestinians.
>>>>>
>>>>> Illegal according to whom?
>>>>
>>>> The international community has declared the settlements to be illegal,
>>>> as has the United Nations.
>>>
>>>I see.
>>>
>>>Israel took possession of the West bank and of Gaza during the 2967 war,
>>>in which Egypt and Jordan were among the aggressors.
>>>
>>>It seems to me that Israel has earned both territories,
>>
>> Nobody can acquire territory by conquest. The West Bank and Gaza are
>> under Israeli occupation, and at no point were they annexed, an action
>> which would also have been illegal.
>
>The clown also stuffed up when he stated Egypt and Jordan started the 67 
>war. Ersatz israel started that all on her own.

Neo-Israel will eventually be presented with the bill for her crimes,
especially if times change and Israel is dropped by its patron, the
USA.

The original Israel was an historical flash-in-the-pan, and
neo-Israel's arrogant strutting on the world stage will be even
shorter.

>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>and that the
>>>international community has no business inserting itself into the 
>>>equation. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:24 EST 2009
Article: 1976196 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: UK and Vatican Call for Cease Fire in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <04thl4pe8gl02k6i9ee926a1e8pg6210nu@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 07:27:59 -0800 (PST), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Dec 28, 6:15 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 17:39:42 -0800 (PST),Michael Ejercito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=6837
>>
>> >UK and Vatican Call for Cease Fire in Gaza
>>
>> >by Bill Levinson
>>
>> >The United Kingdom has called for an “immediate halt” to violence in
>> >Gaza, while the Pope called upon “all sides” to end the violence.
>>
>> >We do not recall either Britain or the Vatican speaking up when Hamas
>> >was pouring rockets and mortar shells into Israel.
>>
>> Israel is an illegal settler-state and illegal occupier of somebody
>> else's country. The Israelis need to end their oppressive occupation
>> that makes German occupations in Europe during WW2 look postively
>> benign by comparison.
>   Assuming that Israel invades Gaza, how would the occupation be
>illegal?

Israel has imported its citizens into the occupied territories in
crass violation of international law. ALL the settlements are illegal,
as are the private roads, checkpoints, and other oppressive features
Israel has in place.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:24 EST 2009
Article: 1977184 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: UK and Vatican Call for Cease Fire in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <6roll4po4qugemkjl8an1ilci61pi6k1mm@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:50:57 -0800 (PST), z 
wrote:

>On Dec 29, 2:36 am, "Karl"  wrote:
>
>> The Jews are bringing all this on themselves by being brutal occupiers for
>> sixty years. Before that they are terrorists.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>if the jews were occupiers for sixty years, how did they invade and
>capture gaza in 1967? more antisemitic genius.

All of neo-Israel is stolen land, and the whole Zionist enterprise is
illegitimate.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:25 EST 2009
Article: 1977185 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another fabricated Holocaust story exposed!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:55:30 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:9b9f997a-4b17-4f8b-8720-8b1b28fd3feb@w39g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 30, 2:26 pm, Yosarian  wrote:
>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> > On 12/29/2008 10:20 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>
>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>> >>news:n93jl4tun1r7fhtg4eqg9pnrb6e7dbvqkv@4ax.com...
>> >>> On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:23:10 +1000, in
>> >>> , "Ben Cramer"
>> >>>  wrote:
>>
>> >>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>> >>>>news:2584c422-3c12-4e85-ba3b-ee20cd81ed95@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >>>> On Dec 28, 9:08 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> >>>>> "NEW YORK - It's the latest story that touched, and betrayed,
>> >>>>> the world.
>>
>> >>>>> "Herman Rosenblat and his wife are the most gentle, loving,
>> >>>>> beautiful people," literary agent Andrea Hurst said Sunday,
>> >>>>> anguishing over why she, and so many others, were taken by
>> >>>>> Rosenblat's story of love born on opposite sides of a
>> >>>>> barbed-wire fence at a concentration camp.
>>
>> >>>>> "I question why I never questioned it. I believed it; it was an
>> >>>>> incredible, hope-filled story."
>>
>> >>>>> On Saturday, Berkley Books canceled Rosenblat's memoir, "Angel
>> >>>>> at the Fence." Rosenblat acknowledged that he and his wife did
>> >>>>> not meet, as they had said for years, at a sub-camp of
>> >>>>> Buchenwald, where she allegedly sneaked him apples and bread.
>> >>>>> The book was supposed to come out in February."
>>
>> >>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/...caust_memoir_9And this
>> >>>>> proves what? Tell, me:If an American GI was caught exagerrating
>> >>>>> his deeds in WWII, does that prove that WWII never happened?
>> >>>> It proves the yid version of history is based on b'ullshit,
>> >>>> b'luto.
>>
>> >>> No it doesn't. It proves that this one individual was a liar.
>>
>> >> As have most of the authors of their nonsensical memoirs.
>>
>> > No they haven't. Why do you lie so transparently?
>>
>> >>> If I recall correctly, he was in Buchenwald, which was not a death
>> >>> camp in any event.
>>
>> >> And just what has that to do with the price of eggs ferchrissake?
>>
>> > Ben's ignorance of the Holocaust is shown to all the world.
>>
>> Not to mention the price of eggs, what ever that has to do with the
>> Holocaust I have no idea.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>>That's one of Cramer's favorite tricks. When someone says something he
>>doesn't agree with, he pretends he doesn't understand it..
>
>You've missed the yid trick, b'luto. It's called deflection, distortion and 
>camouflage. You've ALL decided to ignore the fact this author LIED. That is 
>the central issue. The rest of the crap you and your lot have introduced is 
>nothing more than diversionary tactics to take the topic of conversation 
>away from the very awkward and inconvenient truth.

You should be pretty familiar with that tactic by now, since I have
seen it used countless times in this newsgroup every time questions
arise to which there is no pre-packaged nizkor answer.

>
>Be off with you now. You've egg to wipe from your gormy old phiz.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:25 EST 2009
Article: 1977186 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another fabricated Holocaust story exposed!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:42:02 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:5ebf4102-06b5-4c7a-bb6b-e0d4c2797b9a@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>On Dec 29, 1:23 am, "Ben Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:2584c422-3c12-4e85-ba3b-ee20cd81ed95@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 28, 9:08 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "NEW YORK - It's the latest story that touched, and betrayed, the world.
>>
>> > "Herman Rosenblat and his wife are the most gentle, loving, beautiful
>> > people," literary agent Andrea Hurst said Sunday, anguishing over why 
>> > she,
>> > and so many others, were taken by Rosenblat's story of love born on
>> > opposite
>> > sides of a barbed-wire fence at a concentration camp.
>>
>> > "I question why I never questioned it. I believed it; it was an
>> > incredible,
>> > hope-filled story."
>>
>> > On Saturday, Berkley Books canceled Rosenblat's memoir, "Angel at the
>> > Fence." Rosenblat acknowledged that he and his wife did not meet, as 
>> > they
>> > had said for years, at a sub-camp of Buchenwald, where she allegedly
>> > sneaked
>> > him apples and bread. The book was supposed to come out in February."
>>
>> >http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/...caust_memoir_9
>> >And this proves what? Tell, me:If an American GI was caught
>> >exagerrating his deeds in WWII, does that prove that WWII never
>> >happened?
>>
>> It proves the yid version of history is based on b'ullshit, b'luto. 
>> Stories
>> like this and many, many more have been used as education tools for 
>> decades.
>> Unfortunately it's against the law in most European nations to question 
>> the
>> veracity of this rubbish.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>>ROTFL!The Holocaust evidence consists of more than just verbal
>>testimony.
>>There are oodles of documents, most of them written by the Nazis
>>themselves.

Sorry for intruding here, Ben, but I couldn't let this pass without
comment. Most of the Nuremberg "documents" are of doubtful
authenticity. Practically all of them are copies of a copy of a copy,
and the originals are generally nowhere to be found.

>
>None of which have ever been forensically tested for authenticity, b'luto.
>
>Remember the charter for the Nuremberg "Trials" which, in part said "normal 
>rules of evidence will not apply?"
>
>>See www.nizkor.org
>>Or the Avalon Project.
>
>Oh, I've seen them, b'luto.
>
>>It's illegal in some European countries to publicly deny the
>>Holocaust.
>>Questioning it is done all the time.
>
>Questioning is akin to denial according to the hebes.
>
>It is all but impossible to defend yourself in European courts against a 
>charge of denial because the defence counsel would also be guilty of crimes 
>in defending you.
>
>The Holocaust(tm) is the greatest confidence trick and extortion racket ever 
>foist upon mankind and all supported by the mother of all protection 
>rackets.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:25 EST 2009
Article: 1977187 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:40:06 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article <6bcgl4p7u1g8gm1gvci36cqrd5fn5quplp@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> You have your timeline all wrong, ejaculito. Rotterdam was a defended
>> city as was Warsaw. Both places had German armies on the ground in a
>> position to capture them, so the bombardments were quite legal. 
>
>So why isn't the bombing in Gaza legal?  And say,  no one was
>firing rockets from Rotterdam into Germany,  were they?

Gaza is terror bombing simply to produce civilian casualties as some
sort of perverse Israeli notion of collective punishment for electing
people the Israelis don't like.

Rotterdam, by contrast, was a military operation on the ground with a
German army in position to capture the city. Unfortunately, there were
civilian casualties, but unlike Gaza they were not the target.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:26 EST 2009
Article: 1977188 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why would Israel bomb a university?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 11:25:02 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Dec 30, 6:59 pm, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>  Israel itself chose
>> to wage its wars to eliminate the indigenous people of Palestine
>
>You'd imagine that some-one so knowledgeable would know that the
>current 'Palestinian'  population are not native to the area.

No indeed, most of the current population of Israel consists of
Russian and Polish Jews who are most certainly not indigenous to the
area.


>If Israel wanted to be rid of the 'Palestinian' occupants of Gaza she
>should follow the Palis mantra and push those people into the sea..
>Why don't they ?
>Because the Israeli are the only civilised people in the area


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:26 EST 2009
Article: 1977189 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:58:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:K_m6l.125$Db2.8@edtnps83:
>
>> What do you expect the palis to do. It was the Jews who stole their
>> land. Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>The Jews should do it to germany...the germans stole the Jews land, money 
>and wealth

Germany belongs to Germans, not to jews. Germans and Germany owe
absolutely nothing to jews, most of whom came from Poland as penniless
beggars after WW1. The jews became wealthy because of the confusion
and chaos following WW1.


>
>
>
>
>> 
>> "PB1952"  wrote in message 
>> news:gjcrfi$4do$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Horror, fear, hysteria, weeping , involuntary urinating, fever and
>>>> trauma affect the children of Gaza due to the death of their friends,
>>>> parents, relatives and seeing the blood covering the streets and the
>>>> ruins of the destroyed houses. Trauma spreads across the children of
>>>> Gaza due to the increased number of funerals in the streets, and the
>>>> loud noise of the Israeli F16s flying over their heads, bombing
>>>> everything around them. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suggest you do some research into suffering of the residents of
>>> Sderot. They suffer similarly, but then they are Jews so you don't give
>>> a s**t. 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PB1952@gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:26 EST 2009
Article: 1977190 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 10:50:30 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Jews are allowed to this things like  no one else is allowed to do the same 
>thing.

There is the old German saying to the effect that when two do the same
thing it somehow isn't the same.

The Israelis are cynical hypocrites.

>kk
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6ruagfF3d7nnU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "PB1952"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:gjcrfi$4do$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Horror, fear, hysteria, weeping , involuntary urinating, fever and 
>>>> trauma affect the children of Gaza due to the death of their friends, 
>>>> parents, relatives and seeing the blood covering the streets and the 
>>>> ruins of the destroyed houses. Trauma spreads across the children of 
>>>> Gaza due to the increased number of funerals in the streets, and the 
>>>> loud noise of the Israeli F16s flying over their heads, bombing 
>>>> everything around them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I suggest you do some research into suffering of the residents of Sderot. 
>>> They suffer similarly, but then they are Jews so you don't give a s**t.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> PB1952@gmail.com
>>>
>> what about sederot a couple of rockets fired at them who do not hit 
>> anything ? that cannot be compaired to what the cruel jews are doing in 
>> gaza. it is another attemptto blow up the complete infra structure of gaza 
>> and in fact it has some resemblance with the ghetto of warsaw 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:27 EST 2009
Article: 1977824 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the forest.
>
>You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz concentarion camp 
>as if its relevance or meaning were in those stones. It was there and it is 
>there. Its purpose was to kill jews and soviet prisoners of war and other 
>unwanted people by heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with 
>cyanide. This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants not 
>to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks with this 
>questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny millions of bricks that 
>represent all those people that died there.

The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
Auschwitz. I take them as authoritative unless there is really
compelling evidence to show that the camp personnel kept fraudulent
records.

>
>Topi
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:27 EST 2009
Article: 1977828 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:52:41 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"
 wrote:

>Zulu  wrote in news:1faa8650-0b04-4ac0-97d6-
>80a37b6e21ff@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On 28 dic 2008, 21:11, "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gj8fmo$m3s$2@news.motzarella.org:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > I'll Always Be 27/12/08 escribió:
>>> >> Zulu  wrote innews:gj6lil$pae$5@news.motzarella.org:
>>>
>>> >>> I'll Always Be 27/12/08 escribió:
>>> >>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gj6l7e$pae$2
>@news.motzarella.org:
>>>
>>> >>>>> Tim Miller escribió:
>>> >>>>>> Zulu wrote:
>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Explain us how the fact that Leuchter was not an engineer 
>reflect
>> s
>>> >>>>>>> on his work about "gas chambers" topic?
>>> >>>>>> Because he was a lying sack of shit, and didn't understand what
>>> >>>>>> he was talking about?
>>> >>>>> Some FACTUAL Example?
>>>
>>> >>>> He lied about being an engineer
>>> >>> I talk about his work on "gas chamber" topic, idiot.
>>>
>>> >> He didn't know that it takes less zyklon to kill a human than 
>insects.
>>>
>>> > But, according with holoks they used similar dosis...
>>>
>>> That is not true.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Just to waste more Zyclon than necessary for the fun?
>>>
>>> Or to speed up the death process?
>> 
>> NOPE. To speed the process, heating Zyclon B pellets was the best.
>> But, as we know, SS was idiots and they preferred to spend overdoses
>> of ZB and expect that "body heat or breathing" would make better the
>> job. Then, after each "gassing operation"· they thew away ZB pellets
>> with atleast 50% HCN remaining in for the fun.
>
>
>Why did they throw away perfectly useable pellets? Those nazi thugs were 
>getting kickbacks from the manufacturer of zyklon

That is most doubtful. We're not talking about the corrupt USA here.

>
>
>> That hoax sucks...
>> 
>
>So does your DOGMA


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:27 EST 2009
Article: 1977833 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:55:08 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"
 wrote:

>Zulu  wrote in news:13d61f3c-0650-4b9f-a643-
>d526aa7fde59@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On 29 dic 2008, 23:05, "I'll Always Be 29/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gjbhc4$n21$1@news.motzarella.org:
>>>
>> 
>>> > Explain why those SS were so idiot.
>>>
>>> Because the SS was a thugocracy and the motivators were personal hate 
>and
>>> greed
>> 
>> That does not explain why they wasted half or even more on supposed
>> "gassing operations" the quantity of Zyclon B allowed per day for
>> delousing.
>> 
>> Something hard tom explain.
>
>
>Not at all. The fact that you insist the thugs should do something the 
>difficult way is your problem. The fact that any waste occurred has never 
>been proven. The fact that the nazi thugs were undoubtedly getting 
>kickbacks from the makers/sellers of zyklon explains it all

You are unlikely to be able to show any evidence for your alegation,
let alone proof. Zyklon B was an insecticide. It is highly unlikely
that anybody got "kickbacks" for anything. Kickbacks are largely an
American phenomenon.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:28 EST 2009
Article: 1977836 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 08:07:22 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Are you sure Mauthausen did have a train station ?. They also say the 
>prisoners did get killed just as soon the did arrive in the camp by train. I 
>would be interested how they did manage to taht when there was no railing 
>into the camp.

Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
simply make no sense.

>
>Kurt Knoll
>"I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B85C1A61826DTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:t7S6l.893$PH1.578@edtnps82:
>>
>>>
>>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9B858316A5306Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:m5Q6l.811$PH1.386
>>>> @edtnps82:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Gord how many Jews fit into a German gas wagon.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you changing the subject?
>>> Because I am curious.
>>
>> No, you are Jewish, therefore you are a liar.
>>
>>
>> From mauhausen to Gussen is only 7 kilometres. The
>>> stories has the transported prisoner from mauthause to gusen and killed
>>> them in gas wagon.
>>
>>
>> Actually, you said they were killed at the train station, why are you
>> changing what you said?
>>
>> In return trip they did transport prisoner from gusen
>>> to mauthausen and gassed them to death.
>>
>>
>> But you've just said they had already killed them, why are you changing
>> your story?
>>
>>
>> Sometimes whe they found
>>> prisoner being death, Then thy dumped into the nearest ditch. This are
>>> stories from your brethrens believe it or not.
>>
>> Prove it
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:bxP6l.46415$se4.42040@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>> On 12/30/2008 6:39 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:holman-3012082049530001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>> In article <_-idnZXaue16lcfUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben
>>>>>>>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:ebn6l.127$Db2.96@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>> Wrong again. He did send the sample to an America laboratory
>>>>>>>>>> not telling them were they cam from. Lying is a Jewish
>>>>>>>>>> specially no on can compete with it.
>>>>>>>>> What I find totally amazing is that the jewish chemist, Roth,
>>>>>>>>> admitted that had he known where the samples came from, he would
>>>>>>>>> have arrived at a different conclusion.
>>>>>>>> What's so strange about that? Leuchter gave him bulk samples and
>>>>>>>> said that hey were from an industrial accident involving cyanide.
>>>>>>>> If Leuchter had simply said that the samples were gauged out of a
>>>>>>>> wall, the surface of which had allegedly been exposed to cyanide,
>>>>>>>> Roth would have constriucted a different analytical procedure and
>>>>>>>> come to a different result.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh dear. Apologia gone made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh dear, Cramer puts foot in mouth again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The chemist was given samples and asked to ascertain what, if any,
>>>>>>> the levels of cyanide were contained within. That is all he needed
>>>>>>> to know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope.  He needed to know how they were obtained, as has been
>>>>>> explained dozens of times.  The fact that your knowledge of chemistry
>>>>>> is as bad
>>>> as
>>>>>> Leuchter's does not change the facts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [Blather deleted]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Gord McFee
>>>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:28 EST 2009
Article: 1977838 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:42:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:_Q_6l.610$Db2.417@edtnps83: 
>
>> Are you sure Mauthausen did have a train station ?.
>
>Yes, and an international airport

This is an example of the inaccuracy of your babble.

>
>
> They also say the 
>> prisoners did get killed just as soon the did arrive in the camp by
>> train. 
>
>
>Yes, that's what you have said.
>
>
>I would be interested how they did manage to taht when there was
>> no railing into the camp.
>
>
>What happened to the gas vans you mentioned?
>
>
>> 
>> Kurt Knoll
>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in message
>> news:Xns9B85C1A61826DTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>> news:t7S6l.893$PH1.578@edtnps82:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in
>>>> message news:Xns9B858316A5306Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:m5Q6l.811$PH1.386
>>>>> @edtnps82:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Gord how many Jews fit into a German gas wagon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you changing the subject?
>>>> Because I am curious.
>>>
>>> No, you are Jewish, therefore you are a liar.
>>>
>>>
>>> From mauhausen to Gussen is only 7 kilometres. The
>>>> stories has the transported prisoner from mauthause to gusen and
>>>> killed them in gas wagon.
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, you said they were killed at the train station, why are you
>>> changing what you said?
>>>
>>> In return trip they did transport prisoner from gusen
>>>> to mauthausen and gassed them to death.
>>>
>>>
>>> But you've just said they had already killed them, why are you changing
>>> your story?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sometimes whe they found
>>>> prisoner being death, Then thy dumped into the nearest ditch. This are
>>>> stories from your brethrens believe it or not.
>>>
>>> Prove it
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:bxP6l.46415$se4.42040@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> On 12/30/2008 6:39 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:holman-3012082049530001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>>> In article <_-idnZXaue16lcfUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben
>>>>>>>>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:ebn6l.127$Db2.96@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong again. He did send the sample to an America laboratory
>>>>>>>>>>> not telling them were they cam from. Lying is a Jewish
>>>>>>>>>>> specially no on can compete with it.
>>>>>>>>>> What I find totally amazing is that the jewish chemist, Roth,
>>>>>>>>>> admitted that had he known where the samples came from, he would
>>>>>>>>>> have arrived at a different conclusion.
>>>>>>>>> What's so strange about that? Leuchter gave him bulk samples and
>>>>>>>>> said that hey were from an industrial accident involving cyanide.
>>>>>>>>> If Leuchter had simply said that the samples were gauged out of a
>>>>>>>>> wall, the surface of which had allegedly been exposed to cyanide,
>>>>>>>>> Roth would have constriucted a different analytical procedure and
>>>>>>>>> come to a different result.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh dear. Apologia gone made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh dear, Cramer puts foot in mouth again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The chemist was given samples and asked to ascertain what, if any,
>>>>>>>> the levels of cyanide were contained within. That is all he needed
>>>>>>>> to know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.  He needed to know how they were obtained, as has been
>>>>>>> explained dozens of times.  The fact that your knowledge of
>>>>>>> chemistry is as bad
>>>>> as
>>>>>>> Leuchter's does not change the facts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [Blather deleted]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> Gord McFee
>>>>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:28 EST 2009
Article: 1977842 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 17:41:29 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>Gaza is terror bombing simply to produce civilian casualties as some
>>sort of perverse Israeli notion of collective punishment for electing
>>people the Israelis don't like.
>
>Which, of course, is why the bombing started immediately after the
>elections.

Perhaps the Canadian news outlets are wrong, but they were talking
about an upcoming election.

>
>No, wait....
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:29 EST 2009
Article: 1977845 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:38:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:lgpll4d773r00s2vthoitbls42shmg7uoi@4ax.com:
>
>
>And here I thought you had plonked me, mr cramer.
>
>
>
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:58:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:K_m6l.125$Db2.8
>@edtnps83:
>>>
>>>> What do you expect the palis to do. It was the Jews who stole their
>>>> land. Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Jews should do it to germany...the germans stole the Jews land, 
>money 
>>>and wealth
>> 
>> Germany belongs to Germans, not to jews. Germans and Germany owe
>> absolutely nothing to jews, most of whom came from Poland as penniless
>> beggars after WW1.
>
>
>The germans stole and destroyed Jewish buildings, businesses, money and 
>lives...all of which belonged to the Jews. 

The jews were parasites in Germany, and what wealth they had was
obtained by theft or fraud.

>The germans were thugs and it 
>is only fitting that they be treated for what they did the way KK 
>suggests.

LOL, your ranting is becoming out and out funny.

>
>
> The jews became wealthy because of the confusion
>> and chaos following WW1.
>
>
>So once again, you are admitting the christians are inept and 
>incompetent...after all the confusion was there for everyone, but the Jews 
>managed to somehow not be as confused as the christians.

This has nothing to do with Christians. The jews in Germany were alien
carpet-baggers who arrived to fill their pockets at the expense of
people who were temporarily not in a position to stop them. The
depredations of the jews were another side-effect of Versailles.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> "PB1952"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:gjcrfi$4do$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> Horror, fear, hysteria, weeping , involuntary urinating, fever and
>>>>>> trauma affect the children of Gaza due to the death of their 
>friends,
>>>>>> parents, relatives and seeing the blood covering the streets and the
>>>>>> ruins of the destroyed houses. Trauma spreads across the children of
>>>>>> Gaza due to the increased number of funerals in the streets, and the
>>>>>> loud noise of the Israeli F16s flying over their heads, bombing
>>>>>> everything around them. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest you do some research into suffering of the residents of
>>>>> Sderot. They suffer similarly, but then they are Jews so you don't 
>give
>>>>> a s**t. 
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> PB1952@gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:29 EST 2009
Article: 1977846 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:08:00 -0800 (PST), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>On Dec 31, 5:31 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:58:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote innews:K_m6l.125$Db2.8@edtnps83:
>>
>> >> What do you expect the palis to do. It was the Jews who stole their
>> >> land. Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> >The Jews should do it to germany...the germans stole the Jews land, money
>> >and wealth
>>
>> Germany belongs to Germans, not to jews. Germans and Germany owe
>> absolutely nothing to jews, most of whom came from Poland as penniless
>> beggars after WW1. The jews became wealthy because of the confusion
>> and chaos following WW1.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> "PB1952"  wrote in message
>> >>news:gjcrfi$4do$1@news.motzarella.org...
>> >>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>> >>>news:6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net...
>> >>>> Horror, fear, hysteria, weeping , involuntary urinating, fever and
>> >>>> trauma affect the children of Gaza due to the death of their friends,
>> >>>> parents, relatives and seeing the blood covering the streets and the
>> >>>> ruins of the destroyed houses. Trauma spreads across the children of
>> >>>> Gaza due to the increased number of funerals in the streets, and the
>> >>>> loud noise of the Israeli F16s flying over their heads, bombing
>> >>>> everything around them.
>>
>> >>> I suggest you do some research into suffering of the residents of
>> >>> Sderot. They suffer similarly, but then they are Jews so you don't give
>> >>> a s**t.
>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> PB1...@gmail.com- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>In the fall of 1743 , a 14 year old boy entered Berlin at the
>Rosenthaler Tor, the only gate in the city wall through which Jews
>[and cattle] were allowed to pass, the boy came from Dessau, this boy
>would later grow to be the philosopher Moses Mendelssohn.

Prussia was much more tolerant of differences, especially with respect
to religion, than were many other European jurisdictions at the time.
The specific scenario is probably true, but the intent of the story is
distortion and deception.

>mirjam


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:30 EST 2009
Article: 1977847 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hamas gets blamed
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:20:35 -0600, Yosarian 
wrote:

>Ben Cramer wrote:
>> 
>> "Yosarian"  wrote in message 
>> news:Uvz6l.7893$8_3.4968@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>> Ben Cramer wrote:
>>> [deletia]
>>>> Why do you never go back to the root cause, mister professional jew, 
>>>> to wit, the swiping of Palestine by the Zionista.
>>>
>>>
>>> Wrong again. Current facts on the ground are what concerns that little 
>>> girl.
>> 
>> Oh dear. The poor little professional yid is ignoring the root cause of 
>> this conflict.
>> 
>> 
>No, Hamas is the root cause

That is nonsense. Zionism is the root cause of all the problems in the
Middle East over the last century or so.



> and will soon have its ranks depleted


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:30 EST 2009
Article: 1977848 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hamas gets blamed
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On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:24:12 -0600, Yosarian 
wrote:

>Ben Cramer wrote:
>> 
>> "Yosarian"  wrote in message 
>> news:Ltz6l.7891$8_3.4089@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>>> Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Yosarian"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:uiq6l.15863$ZP4.14618@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>>> IsraelNN.com) A young Arab girl whose family members were killed 
>>>>> Sunday in Gaza says in a TV interview, "I say Hamas is the cause of 
>>>>> all wars."
>>>>>
>>>>> In a Dec. 29 Al-Aqsa TV interview, the girl told of how she woke in 
>>>>> the morning and part of her room had collapsed:
>>>>>
>>>>> Gaza Girl Blames Hamas for War
>>>>
>>>> Good. That makes it all kosher then.
>>>
>>> Not what I said, but when has that ever stopped you from putting words 
>>> into my post, like never, dude.
>> 
>> You certainly seemed to be of that opinion, mister professional jew.
>
>Hard to admit you are wrong isn't it Mr. Cramer.

He doesn't admit to being wrong because he isn't wrong.

>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keep on with the murdering, Israel. You've just been given carte 
>>>> blanche to do so by a little Arab girl.
>>>
>>> No, I honestly don't believe she gave any, "carte blanche". I do think 
>>> that she knows like many other Arabs who live under the Hamas rule of 
>>> law that they have gotten what Hamas wanted. A nice photo op of dead 
>>> civilians, and for this all Hamas had to do was continually lob 
>>> missles into Israel, till Israel got fed up and decided to do 
>>> something about it. So you see, the child knows who the murderers are, 
>>> they are her own people, her leaders.
>> 
>> I rest my case.
>
>I guess such a devestating response does require you to rest, tah old guy,
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tally ho.
>>>
>>>
>>> Good bye
>> 
>> Ta ta.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>Follow ups deleted to deny Mr. Cramer what he wants, and audience.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:30 EST 2009
Article: 1978253 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:29:05 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the forest.
>>>
>>>You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz concentarion 
>>>camp
>>>as if its relevance or meaning were in those stones. It was there and it 
>>>is
>>>there. Its purpose was to kill jews and soviet prisoners of war and other
>>>unwanted people by heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with
>>>cyanide. This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants not
>>>to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks with this
>>>questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny millions of bricks that
>>>represent all those people that died there.
>>
>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>> Auschwitz.
>
>Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.

If THAT were the case, then it wouldn't make any sense to keep ANY
records at all. This stuff was never intended to fall into allied
hands, so why would anybody keep deliberately incomplete or falsified
records for themselves?

Accurate record-keeping has been a kind of religion for German
governments for centuries. What you are suggesting is well beyond the
pale of probability.

>
>>  I take them as authoritative unless there is really
>> compelling evidence to show that the camp personnel kept fraudulent
>> records.
>
>The records that you refer to are partial.
>
>The issue is not that those records are fraudulent, it is that they are not 
>complete.
>
>What *is* fraudulent is the attempt to claim that those records are an 
>accurate representation of those killed at the Auschwitz complex.
>
>In addition, many of those killed were never registered at the camp at all; 
>they were shipped there and immediately killed.   The records that pertain 
>to those people are the *transport* records.
>
> -pk
>
>
>
>>>
>>>Topi
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:31 EST 2009
Article: 1978255 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:32:27 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/1/2009 7:35 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> news:FbOdnQUSxpVszMDUnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>>> news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the
>>>>> forest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz
>>>>> concentarion camp as if its relevance or meaning were in those
>>>>> stones. It was there and it is there. Its purpose was to kill
>>>>> jews and soviet prisoners of war and other unwanted people by
>>>>> heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with cyanide.
>>>>> This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants 
>>>>> not to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks
>>>>> with this questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny
>>>>> millions of bricks that represent all those people that died
>>>>> there.
>>>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at 
>>>> Auschwitz.
>>> Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>> 
>> That's right. The other million or so (or whatever number the
>> industry has declared now) were offed as they stepped from the
>> trains.
>> 
>> So much for German efficiency and their anal record keeping
>> fixations.
>
>Quite efficient actually.  Kill them and don't waste paper keeping
>statistics, since they already existed anyway.

If what you say were true, they wouldn't have kept any records at all.
Partial records are a waste of the effort needed to keep them.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:31 EST 2009
Article: 1978256 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:57:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:ithql41bs4nu8v1dff5bgm8pql23nr67b2@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:52:41 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Zulu  wrote in news:1faa8650-0b04-4ac0-97d6-
>>>80a37b6e21ff@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On 28 dic 2008, 21:11, "I'll Always Be 28/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gj8fmo$m3s$2@news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > I'll Always Be 27/12/08 escribió:
>>>>> >> Zulu  wrote innews:gj6lil$pae$5
>@news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>> I'll Always Be 27/12/08 escribió:
>>>>> >>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gj6l7e$pae$2
>>>@news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Tim Miller escribió:
>>>>> >>>>>> Zulu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Explain us how the fact that Leuchter was not an engineer 
>>>reflect
>>>> s
>>>>> >>>>>>> on his work about "gas chambers" topic?
>>>>> >>>>>> Because he was a lying sack of shit, and didn't understand 
>what
>>>>> >>>>>> he was talking about?
>>>>> >>>>> Some FACTUAL Example?
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>> He lied about being an engineer
>>>>> >>> I talk about his work on "gas chamber" topic, idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> >> He didn't know that it takes less zyklon to kill a human than 
>>>insects.
>>>>>
>>>>> > But, according with holoks they used similar dosis...
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not true.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Just to waste more Zyclon than necessary for the fun?
>>>>>
>>>>> Or to speed up the death process?
>>>> 
>>>> NOPE. To speed the process, heating Zyclon B pellets was the best.
>>>> But, as we know, SS was idiots and they preferred to spend overdoses
>>>> of ZB and expect that "body heat or breathing" would make better the
>>>> job. Then, after each "gassing operation"· they thew away ZB pellets
>>>> with atleast 50% HCN remaining in for the fun.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why did they throw away perfectly useable pellets? Those nazi thugs were 
>>>getting kickbacks from the manufacturer of zyklon
>> 
>> That is most doubtful. We're not talking about the corrupt USA here.
>
>
>That's true, we are talking about the thugocracy of nazis.
>
>We are also talking about German mothers who tell their sons that bodies 
>shrunk to the size of dolls as a result of the firestorm in Hamburg

Your stupid notions that bones cannot be shrunken will be a major
surprise to some of the people who used to produce shrunken heads in
South America.

>
>We should be talking about the children who believe such stories
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>> That hoax sucks...
>>>> 
>>>
>>>So does your DOGMA
>> 


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Article: 1978257 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:15:45 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:42iql4ltrhjib3u8qsa1jquoac82c4atcl@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:55:08 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Zulu  wrote in news:13d61f3c-0650-4b9f-a643-
>>>d526aa7fde59@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On 29 dic 2008, 23:05, "I'll Always Be 29/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gjbhc4$n21$1@news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> > Explain why those SS were so idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the SS was a thugocracy and the motivators were personal hate 
>>>and
>>>>> greed
>>>> 
>>>> That does not explain why they wasted half or even more on supposed
>>>> "gassing operations" the quantity of Zyclon B allowed per day for
>>>> delousing.
>>>> 
>>>> Something hard tom explain.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not at all. The fact that you insist the thugs should do something the 
>>>difficult way is your problem. The fact that any waste occurred has 
>never 
>>>been proven. The fact that the nazi thugs were undoubtedly getting 
>>>kickbacks from the makers/sellers of zyklon explains it all
>> 
>> You are unlikely to be able to show any evidence for your alegation,
>> let alone proof.
>
>Oh no, more three mile high flames

Here we go with the old "change of subject" technique again. LOL

>
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=yDkumtRi97oC&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57
>&dq=nazi+graft&source=bl&ots=y7t_nepSRv&sig=Gr4MSvnMbZRZo3XTnvjasP8DlQA&hl
>=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
>
>http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=38
>
>http://www.jstor.org/pss/3079340
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=trU7nY-T-4EC&pg=PA68&lpg=PA68
>&dq=bribes+by+nazis&source=web&ots=sCDf63qYnJ&sig=LlCPrimXFnVtFANuf6hx_uhI
>LHc&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result
>
>http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Chaim-Michael-Dov-Weissmandl
>
>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1014425.html
>
>http://shalom-magazine.com/Print.php?id=440306
>
>http://www.holocausteduqca.com/holocaust_hero_turns_100_years_o.htm
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=poikX8ecYRwC&pg=PA90&lpg=PA90
>&dq=corruption+by+nazis+-
>schindler&source=web&ots=WZruZ7EGqz&sig=skoZHdzcQ9aqRQq7PF1lofen1Go&hl=en&
>sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
>
>http://www.pbs.org/auschwitz/learning/guides/episode_4.html
>
>The SS also profited from the belongings of those they killed—so much so, 
>that in the summer of 1943, an investigation was launched into corruption 
>in the camp and Rudolf Höss, the commandant, was removed.
>
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/Surviving-Hitler-Choices-Corruption-
>Compromise/dp/0671022636
>
>
>
>> 
>> Surviving Hitler: Choices, Corruption and Compromise in the Third Reich 
>(Paperback)
>> by Adam LeBor (Author), Roger Boyes (Author)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Zyklon B was an insecticide.
>
>Insecticides are inimical to human life
>
>
> It is highly unlikely
>> that anybody got "kickbacks" for anything. Kickbacks are largely an
>> American phenomenon.
>
>
>Apparently the nazis weren't aware of this fact
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:32 EST 2009
Article: 1978258 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:10:10 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:42iql4ltrhjib3u8qsa1jquoac82c4atcl@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:55:08 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Zulu  wrote in news:13d61f3c-0650-4b9f-a643-
>>>d526aa7fde59@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On 29 dic 2008, 23:05, "I'll Always Be 29/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> Zulu  wrote innews:gjbhc4$n21$1@news.motzarella.org:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> > Explain why those SS were so idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because the SS was a thugocracy and the motivators were personal hate
>>>and
>>>>> greed
>>>>
>>>> That does not explain why they wasted half or even more on supposed
>>>> "gassing operations" the quantity of Zyclon B allowed per day for
>>>> delousing.
>>>>
>>>> Something hard tom explain.
>>>
>>>
>>>Not at all. The fact that you insist the thugs should do something the
>>>difficult way is your problem. The fact that any waste occurred has never
>>>been proven. The fact that the nazi thugs were undoubtedly getting
>>>kickbacks from the makers/sellers of zyklon explains it all
>>
>> You are unlikely to be able to show any evidence for your alegation,
>> let alone proof. Zyklon B was an insecticide.
>
>And was very well known to be extremely toxic to humans, vastly more toxic 
>to humans than to insects.    Specifically, about one fifty-third of the 
>concentration needed to kill lice would kill a human in about close to one 
>two-hundredths of the time.
>
>Were you unaware of this feature of its chemistry?

Humans are generally more easy to poison than insects. What is your
point, if there actually is one?

>
>Zyklon was quickly lethal, cheap, easy to handle, and on hand in large 
>quantities.   It was easy to hide its statistical use as a murder weapon in 
>it legitimate use.
>
>
>> It is highly unlikely
>> that anybody got "kickbacks" for anything. Kickbacks are largely an
>> American phenomenon.
>
>So you say, and now, if you can prove that the Nazi leadership never stole 
>or lied, you'll be on your way to credibility.
>
>-pk 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:32 EST 2009
Article: 1978259 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>news:8Yq6l.385$PH1.21@edtnps82...
>> Get real Eugene was the room really big enough to hold 2000 Jews. Is it 
>> also true it really took 15 minutes cremate a Jew. Can any modern 
>> crematorium >
>
>And so we see that Kurt still doesn't know how to make a valid comparison 
>either.
>
>Here's a hint, Kurt.   How many bodies to modern funeral crematory units 
>hold at one time?

The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
designed to deal with one body at a time. Mulitiple corpses in baffles
designed for one would dramatically slow things down, not speed them
up. Your various scenarios defy the laws of physics and chemistry, and
is one of the big reasons that I no longer believe your stories.

>
>-pk
>
>> Ps Non commercial crematorium do the same thing and waht was the standard 
>> before 1945.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-3012080740420001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even if Leuchter would be the foremost expert you would be discrediting 
>>>> him.
>>>> It is part of your Jewish diet.
>>>
>>> Anybody can make a mistake, even an expert. Leuchter's mistake was quite
>>> simple and one that no expert would make: he worked on the assumption 
>>> that
>>> a mass execution gas chamber has to be similar in form, design, and
>>> function to an American penal gas chamber. Even if confronted with a
>>> perfectly ordinary room, such as the auditorium at the Dubrovka Theater 
>>> in
>>> Moscow where a terrorist attack in 2002 ended with a fast-operating
>>> anesthetic being introduced to the ambient air and more than 120 of the
>>> people trapped inside being killed by it, he would not regard the
>>> auditorium as a "gas chamber" because it lacks the formal attributes of 
>>> an
>>> American penal gas chamber despite its having the same functionality from
>>> the standpoint of the victims. For details, see e.g.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis.
>>>
>>> Thus, everything reduces to definitions. The Nazis do not seem to have
>>> used anything resembling an American penal gas chamber to kill their
>>> victims at their death camps, but they *did* have structures that enabled
>>> them to kill large numbers of people by trapping them inside and then
>>> introducing poison gas to the air they were forced to breathe. Their
>>> objective was *not*, as erroneously assumed by Leuchter and Faurisson, to
>>> replicate an American penal gas chamber in form and design, but rather to
>>> create and manage the conditions obtaining during a fatal gassing
>>> accident, thus replicating functionality only. In the most general sense 
>>> a
>>> gas chamber is an enclosed structure that can be used to kill people by
>>> manipulating the content of the air anyone trapped inside is forced to
>>> breathe. Leuchter's arguments to the contrary, no engineering safety
>>> features, ocean-proof glass, or observance of California norms defining
>>> minimum floor space per executee to assure proper circulation of the
>>> lethal agent are necessary.
>>>
>>> Everyone knows that fatal gassing accidents, sometimes involving dozens 
>>> of
>>> people, take place in quite ordinary rooms, ship holds, garages, wells,
>>> mines, automobiles, cellars, kitchens, and living rooms. In 1995
>>> terrorists in Japan managed to kill people in several Tokyo subway
>>> stations and trains, places that were not sealed and in which powerful
>>> ventilation systems were running, by introducing a sufficient amount of
>>> the nerve gas sarin to the ambient air to reach a lethal concentration.
>>> For details, see e.g.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway.
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eugene Holman
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:32 EST 2009
Article: 1978260 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:18:14 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:jaiql499n5r7o06otf69rm69d7t2tc60cs@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:42:11 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>news:_Q_6l.610$Db2.417@edtnps83: 
>>>
>>>> Are you sure Mauthausen did have a train station ?.
>>>
>>>Yes, and an international airport
>> 
>> This is an example of the inaccuracy of your babble.
>
>
>Oh, I'm sorry, I meant to say that as a result of the firebombing of 
>Mauthausen, bodies were shrunk to the size of dolls.

That's it, keep trumpeting your ignorance. 

>
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> They also say the 
>>>> prisoners did get killed just as soon the did arrive in the camp by
>>>> train. 
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, that's what you have said.
>>>
>>>
>>>I would be interested how they did manage to taht when there was
>>>> no railing into the camp.
>>>
>>>
>>>What happened to the gas vans you mentioned?
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> Kurt Knoll
>>>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in 
>message
>>>> news:Xns9B85C1A61826DTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>>> news:t7S6l.893$PH1.578@edtnps82:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in
>>>>>> message news:Xns9B858316A5306Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:m5Q6l.811$PH1.386
>>>>>>> @edtnps82:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hey Gord how many Jews fit into a German gas wagon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you changing the subject?
>>>>>> Because I am curious.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you are Jewish, therefore you are a liar.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From mauhausen to Gussen is only 7 kilometres. The
>>>>>> stories has the transported prisoner from mauthause to gusen and
>>>>>> killed them in gas wagon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, you said they were killed at the train station, why are you
>>>>> changing what you said?
>>>>>
>>>>> In return trip they did transport prisoner from gusen
>>>>>> to mauthausen and gassed them to death.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But you've just said they had already killed them, why are you 
>changing
>>>>> your story?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sometimes whe they found
>>>>>> prisoner being death, Then thy dumped into the nearest ditch. This 
>are
>>>>>> stories from your brethrens believe it or not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Prove it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:bxP6l.46415$se4.42040@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>> On 12/30/2008 6:39 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:holman-3012082049530001@ke-hupnet233-
>25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <_-idnZXaue16lcfUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com>, 
>"Ben
>>>>>>>>>>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:ebn6l.127$Db2.96@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong again. He did send the sample to an America laboratory
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not telling them were they cam from. Lying is a Jewish
>>>>>>>>>>>>> specially no on can compete with it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find totally amazing is that the jewish chemist, Roth,
>>>>>>>>>>>> admitted that had he known where the samples came from, he 
>would
>>>>>>>>>>>> have arrived at a different conclusion.
>>>>>>>>>>> What's so strange about that? Leuchter gave him bulk samples 
>and
>>>>>>>>>>> said that hey were from an industrial accident involving 
>cyanide.
>>>>>>>>>>> If Leuchter had simply said that the samples were gauged out of 
>a
>>>>>>>>>>> wall, the surface of which had allegedly been exposed to 
>cyanide,
>>>>>>>>>>> Roth would have constriucted a different analytical procedure 
>and
>>>>>>>>>>> come to a different result.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh dear. Apologia gone made.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh dear, Cramer puts foot in mouth again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The chemist was given samples and asked to ascertain what, if 
>any,
>>>>>>>>>> the levels of cyanide were contained within. That is all he 
>needed
>>>>>>>>>> to know.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope.  He needed to know how they were obtained, as has been
>>>>>>>>> explained dozens of times.  The fact that your knowledge of
>>>>>>>>> chemistry is as bad
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> Leuchter's does not change the facts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [Blather deleted]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:33 EST 2009
Article: 1978261 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:55:35 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>news:f8iql4lugbq6nqvtn98lo7etqlo0gdall7@4ax.com: 
>
>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 08:07:22 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>Are you sure Mauthausen did have a train station ?. They also say the 
>>>prisoners did get killed just as soon the did arrive in the camp by
>>>train. I would be interested how they did manage to taht when there was
>>>no railing into the camp.
>> 
>> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>> simply make no sense.
>
>
>Yet you believe your mothers stories about bodies shrunk to the size of 
>dolls

That phenomenon had been reported in numerous instances, and my mother
has no reason to lie about her personal experiences as a young girl of
sixteen. I certainly find her a lot more credible than any of the
industry crap that you try to flog.

>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>Kurt Knoll
>>>"I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in message
>>>news:Xns9B85C1A61826DTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>> news:t7S6l.893$PH1.578@edtnps82:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I'll Always Be 31/12/08"  wrote in
>>>>> message news:Xns9B858316A5306Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:m5Q6l.811$PH1.386
>>>>>> @edtnps82:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Gord how many Jews fit into a German gas wagon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you changing the subject?
>>>>> Because I am curious.
>>>>
>>>> No, you are Jewish, therefore you are a liar.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From mauhausen to Gussen is only 7 kilometres. The
>>>>> stories has the transported prisoner from mauthause to gusen and
>>>>> killed them in gas wagon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually, you said they were killed at the train station, why are you
>>>> changing what you said?
>>>>
>>>> In return trip they did transport prisoner from gusen
>>>>> to mauthausen and gassed them to death.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But you've just said they had already killed them, why are you
>>>> changing your story?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes whe they found
>>>>> prisoner being death, Then thy dumped into the nearest ditch. This
>>>>> are stories from your brethrens believe it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Prove it
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:bxP6l.46415$se4.42040@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>> On 12/30/2008 6:39 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:holman-3012082049530001@ke-hupnet233-
>25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>>>>>> In article <_-idnZXaue16lcfUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben
>>>>>>>>>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:ebn6l.127$Db2.96@edtnps83...
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong again. He did send the sample to an America laboratory
>>>>>>>>>>>> not telling them were they cam from. Lying is a Jewish
>>>>>>>>>>>> specially no on can compete with it.
>>>>>>>>>>> What I find totally amazing is that the jewish chemist, Roth,
>>>>>>>>>>> admitted that had he known where the samples came from, he
>>>>>>>>>>> would have arrived at a different conclusion.
>>>>>>>>>> What's so strange about that? Leuchter gave him bulk samples and
>>>>>>>>>> said that hey were from an industrial accident involving
>>>>>>>>>> cyanide. If Leuchter had simply said that the samples were
>>>>>>>>>> gauged out of a wall, the surface of which had allegedly been
>>>>>>>>>> exposed to cyanide, Roth would have constriucted a different
>>>>>>>>>> analytical procedure and come to a different result.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Oh dear. Apologia gone made.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh dear, Cramer puts foot in mouth again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The chemist was given samples and asked to ascertain what, if
>>>>>>>>> any, the levels of cyanide were contained within. That is all he
>>>>>>>>> needed to know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope.  He needed to know how they were obtained, as has been
>>>>>>>> explained dozens of times.  The fact that your knowledge of
>>>>>>>> chemistry is as bad
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> Leuchter's does not change the facts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [Blather deleted]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>> Gord McFee
>>>>>>>> I'll write no line before its time
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>>>>>>>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> 
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:33 EST 2009
Article: 1978263 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel: Heed Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:16:32 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
>Hans-Peter Skaliks (posting as "ebersdorf") fully justifies the
>massive Nazi bombings of Holland and Poland,  countries which have
>not attacked Germany,  yet he gets all purple in the kisser when
>Israel defends itself against an enemy which wants to annihilate
>it and which,  for years,  fired thousands of rockets at Israeli
>cities.
>
>Strange little critter,  that Skaliks.

LOL

We have religious freedom, so you can believe whatever nonsense you
like, including your ranting about my alleged "real" identity. You
have failed to get any mileage out of your silly skaliks routine in
the past, and it won't bear any fruit in the future either.

The Nazi bombings in the Netherlands and Poland were hardly "massive".
If you tried to graph them on the same piece of graph paper as allied
terrorist efforts they wouldn't register against the allied efforts.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:34 EST 2009
Article: 1978264 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 23:20:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:lmiql411spp6fbc9m4dln7eb5q7pglnfm1@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:38:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>>>news:lgpll4d773r00s2vthoitbls42shmg7uoi@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>And here I thought you had plonked me, mr cramer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Dec 2008 19:58:07 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 30/12/08"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:K_m6l.125$Db2.8
>>>@edtnps83:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you expect the palis to do. It was the Jews who stole their
>>>>>> land. Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The Jews should do it to Germany...the Germans stole the Jews land, 
>>>money 
>>>>>and wealth
>>>> 
>>>> Germany belongs to Germans, not to jews. Germans and Germany owe
>>>> absolutely nothing to jews, most of whom came from Poland as penniless
>>>> beggars after WW1.
>>>
>>>
>>>The Germans stole and destroyed Jewish buildings, businesses, money and 
>>>lives...all of which belonged to the Jews. 
>> 
>> The jews were parasites in Germany, and what wealth they had was
>> obtained by theft or fraud.
>
>
>That can't be. Theft and fraud are the earmarks of German commerce

That must explain why the term "Jewed" in English is a synonym for
defrauded or cheated, while nobody on the planet says "Germaned" as a
synonym for cheated or defrauded.


>
>
>Surviving Hitler: Choices, Corruption and Compromise in the Third Reich 
>(Paperback)
>by Adam LeBor (Author), Roger Boyes (Author)
> 
>
>
>
>> 
>>>The germans were thugs and it 
>>>is only fitting that they be treated for what they did the way KK 
>>>suggests.
>> 
>> LOL, your ranting is becoming out and out funny.
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> The jews became wealthy because of the confusion
>>>> and chaos following WW1.
>>>
>>>
>>>So once again, you are admitting the christians are inept and 
>>>incompetent...after all the confusion was there for everyone, but the 
>Jews 
>>>managed to somehow not be as confused as the christians.
>> 
>> This has nothing to do with Christians. The jews in Germany were alien
>> carpet-baggers who arrived to fill their pockets at the expense of
>> people who were temporarily not in a position to stop them. The
>> depredations of the jews were another side-effect of Versailles.
>
>
>In other words, the germans, who are christians, were inept and 
>incompetent
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "PB1952"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:gjcrfi$4do$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>>>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> Horror, fear, hysteria, weeping , involuntary urinating, fever and
>>>>>>>> trauma affect the children of Gaza due to the death of their 
>>>friends,
>>>>>>>> parents, relatives and seeing the blood covering the streets and 
>the
>>>>>>>> ruins of the destroyed houses. Trauma spreads across the children 
>of
>>>>>>>> Gaza due to the increased number of funerals in the streets, and 
>the
>>>>>>>> loud noise of the Israeli F16s flying over their heads, bombing
>>>>>>>> everything around them. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest you do some research into suffering of the residents of
>>>>>>> Sderot. They suffer similarly, but then they are Jews so you don't 
>>>give
>>>>>>> a s**t. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>> PB1952@gmail.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:34 EST 2009
Article: 1978266 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:22:38 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> The jews were parasites in Germany, 
>
>Crazy old Nazi.  You folks never learn,  do you?  

The Nazis were long gone by the time I was born, Bozo. Right wing
movements such as the American Republicans, the German Nazis, or
Harper's Tories have never enjoyed much support from me.  LOL

Like all your other stuff, this latest rant is just another pile of
horse-dung. Why should I believe your version of WW2 when your other
stuff is so totally ridiculous? When you spout nonsense about things
where I know the truth for certain, then you don't have much
credibility when you try to convince me of things where I might be
less familiar.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:35 EST 2009
Article: 1978267 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:32:29 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <6rtrptF3994gU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Heinrich  wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
>Too bad,  but this is what happens when you declare your intent to
>annihilate a neighboring country,  when -- for years -- you fire
>thousands of rockets at its cities,  and when you ignore dozens
>of warning to stop doing it.

The Zionists have had the intent to destroy the native population of
their colonial conquest for decades. You are babbling mindlessly and
fraudulently.

>
>Sorry!


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:35 EST 2009
Article: 1978277 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:51:57 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"a-little-sanity"; "please"  wrote in message 
>news:gjkjet$uk1$1@pcls4.std.com...
>
>Pest sprayed 

LOL

Your approach to a-very-little-sanity and his alter-ego may be the
wisest course. They never have anything to say besides gratuitous
invective anyway.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:36 EST 2009
Article: 1978278 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hamas gets blamed
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <2p6sl4h9t4rjavpabfa5rm6fbriguff4oj@4ax.com>
References:  <4rudnUfrrslgZ8fUnZ2dnUVZ_uydnZ2d@giganews.com>  <52jql419ja062ltkdjt6hbpqqlurr1q6is@4ax.com>  
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:51:36 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"someone-who-knows"  wrote in message 
>news:gjkj98$ksn$1@pcls6.std.com...
>
>Pest sprayed 

 Thanks, these pests are hard to eliminate.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:36 EST 2009
Article: 1978279 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 06:21:45 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would Gazans 
>enjoy the same freedoms as other nations? Would they be able to open their 
>sea port to foreign ships and rebuild and operate their airport? Would they 
>be able to import and export and carry on trade and develop their economy 
>and prosper like other countries?

No, it would just make it easier for Israel to exterminate them. It
has always been the Zionist intention to eliminate all non-Jews from
the area specified for the mythical kingdoms of David and Solomon.

>
>Would they be allowed to exploit and develop their offshore gas field? Would 
>their fishermen be allowed to fish in unpolluted waters? Would their young 
>people be able to come and go and take up places at foreign universities?
>
>Would Israel clear out of Gazan airspace permanently? Would the Israeli navy 
>cease its piracy and stay out of Palestinian territorial waters? Would you 
>and I be able to visit Gaza direct?
>
>Fat chance. None of this would suit Israel. So Gazans would be no better 
>off. Their tormented half-existence would continue.
>
>There are no rockets coming out of the West Bank. Yet the illegal Israeli 
>occupation there continues and so does the ethnic cleansing, the land theft, 
>the illegal settlements, the colonization, the demolition of Palestinian 
>homes, the throttling of the economy, the abduction and 'administrative 
>detention' of civilians and the massive interference with freedom of 
>movement. Nothing has changed for West Bank Palestinians who DO NOT fire 
>rockets. There is no sign of an end to their misery.
>
>The bloody assault on Gaza therefore has much more to do with Israel's 
>ambition to expand racial dominance in the Holy Land than crude and erratic 
>rocket-fire. Hamas and the Palestinians holed up in Gaza are simply in the 
>way of the Grand Plan and have to be removed or totally subdued.
>
>The international community needs to keep their eye on the ball - the big 
>issue - which is the ending of the occupation and Israel's withdrawal to 
>recognized pre-67 borders as required by international law. In short, they 
>need to stop wringing their hands and start delivering justice, which is 
>long overdue.
>
>Palestinians in Gaza will hardly wish to give up armed resistance until they 
>receive copper-bottomed guarantees of a normal life unmolested by Israel... 
>and see concrete evidence of it.
>
>
>Stuart Littlewood
>1st January 2009
>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:37 EST 2009
Article: 1978280 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 05:37:32 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
 wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in
>news:6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net: 
>
>> Palestinians in Gaza will hardly wish to give up armed resistance until
>> they receive copper-bottomed guarantees of a normal life unmolested by
>> Israel... and see concrete evidence of it.
>
>Israelis are hardly likely to give up the "armed struggle" until they receive 
>copper-bottomed guarantees of a normal life unmolested by palestinian suicide 
>bombers and rockets 

Perhaps the rest of Middle East is hoping for an environment where
they don't have to put up with vicious Jewish colonialists?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:37 EST 2009
Article: 1978283 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:37:42 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net...
>> What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? 
>
>What if Hamas and their masters dumped their insistence that Israel has no 
>right to exist and should be destroyed, tomorrow?

Since Israel believes in the "right of conquest", a holdover from the
early middle ages, then nobody has a right to exist since conquest
cuts in two directions. Today Israel lords it over the Middle East,
and perhaps tomorrow somebody else will lord it over the Middle East.
That is the way the "right of conquest" works.

The Israeli concept seems to be that now that they have successfully
stolen the area from the indigenous population, their theft should be
recognized as legitimate. That is unreasonable. The Arabs have every
right to attempt recovery on the same basis that the European Jewish
colonialists stole it in the first place.

>
>Would they then be forced to finally work towards some sort of justice and 
>peace for the Palestinian people?
>
>-pk
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:37 EST 2009
Article: 1978284 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 07:04:38 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Heinrich  wrote:
>
>> What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would Gazans 
>> enjoy the same freedoms as other nations?
>
>Yes.

Given Israel's record in the past, that is highly doubtful. Every time
peace threatened to break out in the Middle East, Israel has arranged
for some provocation such as new settlements on stolen land, or some
gratuitous massacre or another to keep things stirred up.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:38 EST 2009
Article: 1978303 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:47:34 +1300, "PB1952" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net...
>> What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would Gazans 
>> enjoy the same freedoms as other nations? Would they be able to open their 
>> sea port to foreign ships and rebuild and operate their airport? Would 
>> they be able to import and export and carry on trade and develop their 
>> economy and prosper like other countries?
>
>If thePalestinians  had remained peaceful after the pullour from Gaza the 
>answer is yes.

The trouble has been largely of Israeli origin, so nothing the
residents of Gaza could do would make any difference. The Israelis
want them gone, so their basic choice is resist or die.

>Gaza was viewed as a test by most Israelis. Had everything gone peacefully 
>Israelis would have handed back most of the West Bank in a spirit of 
>co-operation and Palestinians would have a a much better life.
>Now most Israelis are frightened of would happen if the W Bank was handed 
>back. It would probably be used to fire rockets
>at even closer range.
>
>
>> Would they be allowed to exploit and develop their offshore gas field? 
>> Would their fishermen be allowed to fish in unpolluted waters? Would their 
>> young people be able to come and go and take up places at foreign 
>> universities?
>
>Yes probably.
>.
>>
>> Would Israel clear out of Gazan airspace permanently? Would the Israeli 
>> navy cease its piracy and stay out of Palestinian territorial waters? 
>> Would you and I be able to visit Gaza direct?
>
>Yes probably.
>>
>> Fat chance. None of this would suit Israel. So Gazans would be no better 
>> off. Their tormented half-existence would continue.
>
>Hamas are a resistance group, they want things this way It is the basis of 
>their ideology and agenda.
>That is the reason they have been provoking with rockets .(even during the 
>truce)
>If there is nothing to resist they are out of business.
>
>>
>> There are no rockets coming out of the West Bank. Yet the illegal Israeli 
>> occupation there continues and so does the ethnic cleansing, the land 
>> theft, the illegal settlements, the colonization, the demolition of 
>> Palestinian homes, the throttling of the economy, the abduction and 
>> 'administrative detention' of civilians and the massive interference with 
>> freedom of movement. Nothing has changed for West Bank Palestinians who DO 
>> NOT fire rockets. There is no sign of an end to their misery.
>
>
>That isn't true. The economy in the W Bank has much improved and goods flow 
>between them and Israel.
>>
>> The bloody assault on Gaza therefore has much more to do with Israel's 
>> ambition to expand racial dominance in the Holy Land than crude and 
>> erratic rocket-fire. Hamas and the Palestinians holed up in Gaza are 
>> simply in the way of the Grand Plan and have to be removed or totally 
>> subdued.
>
>What crap.
>>
>> The international community needs to keep their eye on the ball - the big 
>> issue - which is the ending of the occupation and Israel's withdrawal to 
>> recognized pre-67 borders as required by international law. In short, they 
>> need to stop wringing their hands and start delivering justice, which is 
>> long overdue.
>>
>> Palestinians in Gaza will hardly wish to give up armed resistance until 
>> they receive copper-bottomed guarantees of a normal life unmolested by 
>> Israel... and see concrete evidence of it.
>
>The same can be said for the Israelis.
>>
>>
>> Stuart Littlewood
>> 1st January 2009
>>
>>
>>
>>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:38 EST 2009
Article: 1978304 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:06:03 +1300, "PB1952" 
wrote:

>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:BYSdnROlQOWLVcDUnZ2dnUVZ_oTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "PB1952"  wrote in message 
>> news:gjkgqn$nq3$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would Gazans 
>>>> enjoy the same freedoms as other nations? Would they be able to open 
>>>> their sea port to foreign ships and rebuild and operate their airport? 
>>>> Would they be able to import and export and carry on trade and develop 
>>>> their economy and prosper like other countries?
>>>
>>> If thePalestinians  had remained peaceful after the pullour from Gaza the 
>>> answer is yes.
>>
>> They tried to be. The yids immediately closed all the borders and jailed 
>> them.
>
>Because they started firing rockets within 24 hours of the pullout.

Like most Israeli "gestures", that one too was a fraud. What changed
was rather than having Israeli concentration camp guards INSIDE the
giant concentration camp known as Gaza, they were moved to the
exterior. The inhuman conditions inside the camp remained as before.
>
>
>>
>>> Gaza was viewed as a test by most Israelis. Had everything gone 
>>> peacefully Israelis would have handed back most of the West Bank in a 
>>> spirit of co-operation and Palestinians would have a a much better life.
>>
>> What a crock of shit.
>
>It's true.Most Israelis wanted the Gaza pullout to be a success and a 
>rehearsal for pulling back from the W Bank.
>Opinions have hardened since. They have no reason to believe anything would 
>be different  than they are now if they pulled back to the 1967 borders. 
>Hamas want the annhilation of Israel They will be happy with  nothing less.
>
>>
>>> Now most Israelis are frightened of would happen if the W Bank was handed 
>>> back. It would probably be used to fire rockets
>>> at even closer range.
>>
>> That's what happens when you swipe someone elses country and brutally 
>> oppress the original occupants.
>
>Obvioulsy you agree wiuth them.
>Point proven.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Would they be allowed to exploit and develop their offshore gas field? 
>>>> Would their fishermen be allowed to fish in unpolluted waters? Would 
>>>> their young people be able to come and go and take up places at foreign 
>>>> universities?
>>>
>>> Yes probably.
>>
>> Horseshit.
>
>  You know better 
>
>
>>
>> British Gas is working with Israel AT THIS VERY MOMENT to get their claws 
>> on the offshore gas fields.
>
>
>Israel has gas offshore, in fact they found petroleum recently.
>>
>>> .
>>>>
>>>> Would Israel clear out of Gazan airspace permanently? Would the Israeli 
>>>> navy cease its piracy and stay out of Palestinian territorial waters? 
>>>> Would you and I be able to visit Gaza direct?
>>>
>>> Yes probably.
>>
>> Balls.
>
>It was possible before, it would be possible again.
>>
>>>>
>>>> Fat chance. None of this would suit Israel. So Gazans would be no better 
>>>> off. Their tormented half-existence would continue.
>>>
>>> Hamas are a resistance group, they want things this way It is the basis 
>>> of their ideology and agenda.
>>> That is the reason they have been provoking with rockets .(even during 
>>> the truce)
>>> If there is nothing to resist they are out of business.
>>
>> They are NOT just a resistance group. They are mainly a welfare group.
>
>
>lol.  Rubbish.
>They define themselves as a resistance group you idiot.
>
>
>> Britain is so well aware of this they have only declared the militant wing 
>> to be a terrorist organisation.
>
>The Brits are slow at everything.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are no rockets coming out of the West Bank. Yet the illegal 
>>>> Israeli occupation there continues and so does the ethnic cleansing, the 
>>>> land theft, the illegal settlements, the colonization, the demolition of 
>>>> Palestinian homes, the throttling of the economy, the abduction and 
>>>> 'administrative detention' of civilians and the massive interference 
>>>> with freedom of movement. Nothing has changed for West Bank Palestinians 
>>>> who DO NOT fire rockets. There is no sign of an end to their misery.
>>>
>>>
>>> That isn't true. The economy in the W Bank has much improved and goods 
>>> flow between them and Israel.
>>
>> Horsefuckingshit.
>
>It's true. The economy has greatly improved.People are far better off in the 
>W Bank than in Gaza.
>Do a Google.The BBC had something about this two days ago.
>
>>>>
>>>> The bloody assault on Gaza therefore has much more to do with Israel's 
>>>> ambition to expand racial dominance in the Holy Land than crude and 
>>>> erratic rocket-fire. Hamas and the Palestinians holed up in Gaza are 
>>>> simply in the way of the Grand Plan and have to be removed or totally 
>>>> subdued.
>>>
>>> What crap.
>>
>> The crap is from you, twatty. As usual.
>> The yids are using Gaza for political and colonial ends.
>>>>
>>>> The international community needs to keep their eye on the ball - the 
>>>> big issue - which is the ending of the occupation and Israel's 
>>>> withdrawal to recognized pre-67 borders as required by international 
>>>> law. In short, they need to stop wringing their hands and start 
>>>> delivering justice, which is long overdue.
>>>>
>>>> Palestinians in Gaza will hardly wish to give up armed resistance until 
>>>> they receive copper-bottomed guarantees of a normal life unmolested by 
>>>> Israel... and see concrete evidence of it.
>>>
>>> The same can be said for the Israelis.
>>
>> Over sixty years and Ersatz israel is STILL trying to secure their 
>> population. By any measure, that's an indication the experiment has 
>> failed.
>
>
>Rubbish.
>Oh and BTW ir's obvious Heinrich didn't respond to me.The response is too 
>well written!!!!


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:38 EST 2009
Article: 1978320 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:47:05 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:57:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
>>  wrote:
>
>>> We are also talking about German mothers who tell their sons that bodies 
>>> shrunk to the size of dolls as a result of the firestorm in Hamburg
>
>> Your stupid notions that bones cannot be shrunken will be a major
>> surprise to some of the people who used to produce shrunken heads in
>> South America.
>
>I believe they removed the skull first.  But anyway,  the story your
>mother told you -- that Germans whose cities were bombed have "shrunk
>to the size of a doll" is a truly insane lie,  like so many other
>things which your parents told you.

LOL

You are full of shit to your eyeballs, someone-who-knows-nothing.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:39 EST 2009
Article: 1978321 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:00:46 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
>> designed to deal with one body at a time. 
>
>Nope.
>
>Multiple cremation is very efficient,  and was (illegally of course)
>used in some cremation houses in order to save time and fuel.  That's
>why the law forbids it: see http://www.icfa.org/cremation_procedures.htm,
>Section 4.1.  See also http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,967605,00.html
>
>You're a truly disgusting little liar.

You're full of shit, a-very-little-sanity, like most of your fellow
holocaust™ cultists.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:39 EST 2009
Article: 1978324 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:45:50 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>> >news:8Yq6l.385$PH1.21@edtnps82...
>> >> Get real Eugene was the room really big enough to hold 2000 Jews. Is it 
>> >> also true it really took 15 minutes cremate a Jew. Can any modern 
>> >> crematorium >
>> >
>> >And so we see that Kurt still doesn't know how to make a valid comparison 
>> >either.
>> >
>> >Here's a hint, Kurt.   How many bodies to modern funeral crematory units 
>> >hold at one time?
>> 
>> The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
>> designed to deal with one body at a time. Mulitiple corpses in baffles
>> designed for one would dramatically slow things down, not speed them
>> up. Your various scenarios defy the laws of physics and chemistry, and
>> is one of the big reasons that I no longer believe your stories.
>> 
>
>But there's one little tiny detail you've failed to take into account: 
>the Nazis weren't interested in "cremation," by anyone's standards. They 
>were incinerating bodies, not cremating them. Comparisons to modern 
>crematoriums isn't valid.

Incomplete cremation would leave a lot of residue in the form of bone
fragments, etc. resulting in rather more leftovers than the usual
kilogram and a half of mineral ash. Even if one assumes complete
cremation, the million people you claim were cremated would leave
mineral ashes amounting to 1500 tonnes, none of which has been found.
When you add to that fuel deliveries totally inadequate to the task
and crematorium operations (flames belching from chimneys) that defy
the laws of physics and chemistry, you have a story with lots and lots
of room for doubt.


>> >
>> >-pk
>> >
>> >> Ps Non commercial crematorium do the same thing and waht was the standard 
>> >> before 1945.
>> >> Kurt Knoll.
>> >>
>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:holman-3012080740420001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>> >>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"  
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Even if Leuchter would be the foremost expert you would be discrediting 
>> >>>> him.
>> >>>> It is part of your Jewish diet.
>> >>>
>> >>> Anybody can make a mistake, even an expert. Leuchter's mistake was quite
>> >>> simple and one that no expert would make: he worked on the assumption 
>> >>> that
>> >>> a mass execution gas chamber has to be similar in form, design, and
>> >>> function to an American penal gas chamber. Even if confronted with a
>> >>> perfectly ordinary room, such as the auditorium at the Dubrovka Theater 
>> >>> in
>> >>> Moscow where a terrorist attack in 2002 ended with a fast-operating
>> >>> anesthetic being introduced to the ambient air and more than 120 of the
>> >>> people trapped inside being killed by it, he would not regard the
>> >>> auditorium as a "gas chamber" because it lacks the formal attributes of 
>> >>> an
>> >>> American penal gas chamber despite its having the same functionality from
>> >>> the standpoint of the victims. For details, see e.g.
>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thus, everything reduces to definitions. The Nazis do not seem to have
>> >>> used anything resembling an American penal gas chamber to kill their
>> >>> victims at their death camps, but they *did* have structures that enabled
>> >>> them to kill large numbers of people by trapping them inside and then
>> >>> introducing poison gas to the air they were forced to breathe. Their
>> >>> objective was *not*, as erroneously assumed by Leuchter and Faurisson, to
>> >>> replicate an American penal gas chamber in form and design, but rather to
>> >>> create and manage the conditions obtaining during a fatal gassing
>> >>> accident, thus replicating functionality only. In the most general sense 
>> >>> a
>> >>> gas chamber is an enclosed structure that can be used to kill people by
>> >>> manipulating the content of the air anyone trapped inside is forced to
>> >>> breathe. Leuchter's arguments to the contrary, no engineering safety
>> >>> features, ocean-proof glass, or observance of California norms defining
>> >>> minimum floor space per executee to assure proper circulation of the
>> >>> lethal agent are necessary.
>> >>>
>> >>> Everyone knows that fatal gassing accidents, sometimes involving dozens 
>> >>> of
>> >>> people, take place in quite ordinary rooms, ship holds, garages, wells,
>> >>> mines, automobiles, cellars, kitchens, and living rooms. In 1995
>> >>> terrorists in Japan managed to kill people in several Tokyo subway
>> >>> stations and trains, places that were not sealed and in which powerful
>> >>> ventilation systems were running, by introducing a sufficient amount of
>> >>> the nerve gas sarin to the ambient air to reach a lethal concentration.
>> >>> For details, see e.g.
>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway.
>> >>>
>> >>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Eugene Holman
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:39 EST 2009
Article: 1978325 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:03:54 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:55:35 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 01/01/09"
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Yet you believe your mothers stories about bodies shrunk to the size of 
>>> dolls
>
>> That phenomenon had been reported in numerous instances, 
>
>It's fucking nonsense.  Snap out of it,  crazy guy.  Heat cannot
>cause a corpse to shrink to the size of a doll.

Yawn...

Rant on old fool.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:40 EST 2009
Article: 1978331 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:12:13 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article <9j3sl4thl06r7c4gui819917i9pk0aec3d@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:22:38 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> The jews were parasites in Germany, 
>
>>> Crazy old Nazi.  You folks never learn,  do you?  
>
>> The Nazis were long gone by the time I was born, Bozo.
>
>You were born in 1945 in Germany.

Actually no, but close. The Nazis were long gone.

>Your parents were Nazis,

Actually no, they were not. They were Social Democratic and Christian
Democratic respectively. Here is the first point where you are full of
shit.

>and you're a Nazi.

That too is false. I don't believe in their program or that of any
other right-wing political organization. This is the second point on
which you are totally full of shit.

>And yes,  you guys just don't learn.

Everybody in the family has a university education, so once again you
are full of shit. That is already the third strike, so formally you
are now out.

>Why
>filth like your family and the Knolls was allowed to enter
>Canada I can't understand. 

The Canadian authorities obviously didn't regard us as "filth", or
they wouldn't have invited us. There seem to be huge mountains of
stuff that you fail to understand. You have proven time and time again
that you are a fool.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:41 EST 2009
Article: 1978332 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:14:56 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"someone-who-knows"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gjl3rd$t8v$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article <9j3sl4thl06r7c4gui819917i9pk0aec3d@4ax.com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:22:38 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
>>>  wrote:
>>
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>>>>> The jews were parasites in Germany,
>>
>>>> Crazy old Nazi.  You folks never learn,  do you?
>>
>>> The Nazis were long gone by the time I was born, Bozo.
>>
>> You were born in 1945 in Germany.  Your parents were Nazis,
>> and you're a Nazi.  And yes,  you guys just don't learn.  Why
>> filth like your family and the Knolls was allowed to enter
>> Canada I can't understand.
>
>there is a lot more what you donot understand but that is because you are a 
>cunt. 

You're probably unfairly maligning cunts in your analysis.  LOL



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:41 EST 2009
Article: 1978333 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Days and Nights of Israeli Horror in Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:15:09 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:32:29 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Too bad,  but this is what happens when you declare your intent to
>>> annihilate a neighboring country,  when -- for years -- you fire
>>> thousands of rockets at its cities,  and when you ignore dozens
>>> of warning to stop doing it.
>
>> The Zionists have had the intent to destroy the native population of
>> their colonial conquest for decades. 
>
>So I guess that's why the Arab population in the region -- both
>inside and outside Israel -- has multiplied by a factor of five
>since Israel was created in 1948?

Their population has not increased nearly as quickly as that of the
Russians and Poles in Israel.

>
>> You are babbling mindlessly and fraudulently.
>
>Point my factual errors then,  you lying sack.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:42 EST 2009
Article: 1978336 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: police killed student in german uniform
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:15 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gjl0fv$po9$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>
>> In article <6s6efsF4d6rnU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>>>       Read the article;  the guy seems to have been a fucking loon.  But
>>>> anyway,  hopefully we will soon kill real Nazis.
>>
>>> keep on dreaming jew cunt
>>
>> Why?  We killed you cocksucking Nazis before,  didn't we?  And we
>> didn't have H-bombs then.  Next time,  it will be much easier.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>as i toldyou in an earlie reply you better continue draming because you 
>cannot face reality and start talking baby talk 

TallHenry is simply somebody who cannot organize himself to take his
psychiatric medications on a regular basis. The guy is obviously a few
sandwiches short of a picnic as they like to say in Canada.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:42 EST 2009
Article: 1978338 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: police killed student in german uniform
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:29:18 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gjl184$88r$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article <6s6eshF4fb8eU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>> as i toldyou in an earlie reply you better continue draming
>>
>>          As I told you in an earlier reply,  learn English and
>> stop posting when you're drunk,  you God-damned shiteating Nazi
>> freak.
>>
>sorryfor the typing errors but that is what you get reading a posting fromn 
>you the freak of nature 

Well, if Nazis opposed crazy babblers like TallHenry, then they
couldn't have been all bad, despite their known faults.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:43 EST 2009
Article: 1978339 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: police killed student in german uniform
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <6s6ap1F4e94bU1@mid.individual.net>  <2b14b240-2919-40f2-a1ec-4f0575b08984@l38g2000vba.googlegroups.com>
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 04:25:16 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Jan 2, 7:07 am, TallHenry  wrote:
>> In article <6s6ap1F4e94...@mid.individual.net>,
>>
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>        (deletia)
>>
>>        Here's the part you forgot to quote,  cocksucker:
>>
>>        "Uniformed police officers warned the man several times to drop his
>> weapon. He didn't, Kappel said, and he pointed it at one of the officers. Two
>> officers shot him several times. He died at a hospital Thursday morning, Kappel
>> said."
>>
>>        Read the article;  the guy seems to have been a fucking loon.  But
>> anyway,  hopefully we will soon kill real Nazis.
>
>Why wait?  Get out there and do what you preach.  Walk the walk oh
>limp one.

TallHenry is clearly mentally deranged, and in civilized countries
would be provided with a secure residence in a mental hospital as
opposed to being doomed to be a street person like in the USA.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:43 EST 2009
Article: 1978348 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:00:15 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:00:46 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
>>>> designed to deal with one body at a time. 
>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> Multiple cremation is very efficient,  and was (illegally of course)
>>> used in some cremation houses in order to save time and fuel.  That's
>>> why the law forbids it: see http://www.icfa.org/cremation_procedures.htm,
>>> Section 4.1.  See also http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,967605,00.html
>
>> You're full of shit, a-very-little-sanity, like most of your fellow
>> holocaust™ cultists.
>
>So,  I proved that you're a liar,

All you have shown is that you are an idiot with very little sanity.

>and you retaliate by name-calling.

LOL

You are a hypocrite as well as a fool.

>
>Is your mommy still around so you can run to her and cry?  Is she still
>making you happy by telling you funny stories about Germans who were
>shrunk to the size of a doll?  Cripes,  what a family.  Someone should
>write a paper about you.

After talking to you, holocaust™ jokes don't seem so gross anymore.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:43 EST 2009
Article: 1978349 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:56:09 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:47:05 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
>>  wrote:
>
>>> I believe they removed the skull first.  But anyway,  the story your
>>> mother told you -- that Germans whose cities were bombed have "shrunk
>>> to the size of a doll" is a truly insane lie,  like so many other
>>> things which your parents told you.
>
>> LOL
>>
>> You are full of shit to your eyeballs, someone-who-knows-nothing.
>
>The joke's on you,  stupid.  You're the one who believes that
>when human beings are exposed to heat,  they will "shrink to
>the size of a doll".  Such a crazy little turd you are.

So whine in the ears of the people who wrote the books reporting these
phenomena. My mother wasn't alone in collecting human remains after an
allied terrorist attack against Frankfurt a/M, and her observations
and experiences are attested to by others, but then I really shouldn't
be wasting my time giving you a reply to your crap, which had no other
purpose but to annoy.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:44 EST 2009
Article: 1978351 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:51:51 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <0g7sl41qt5k61lafi5davs3c4l5c7h6foq@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 07:04:38 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article <6s5mj8F4c3pvU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>
>>>> What if Hamas dumped all their rockets in the sea tomorrow? Would Gazans 
>>>> enjoy the same freedoms as other nations?
>
>>> Yes.
>
>> Given Israel's record in the past, that is highly doubtful. Every time
>> peace threatened to break out in the Middle East, Israel has arranged
>> for some provocation such as new settlements on stolen land, or some
>> gratuitous massacre or another to keep things stirred up.
>
>What crap.  Israel left South Lebanon and Gaza in order to promote
>peace,

They had no business being there in the first place, so leaving is not
a subject for which people are obliged to have much gratitude.

>and the Islamists took over these locations and used them
>to launch thousands of rockets at Israeli cities.

The "Islamists" you reference in your bigot-speak, are just
freedom-fighters opposing a vicious and merciless enemy, who is
dedicated to the destruction of their people, by whatever limited
means are at their disposal.

>You're such a
>loathsome little liar.

Unlike you, I don't tell lies.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:44 EST 2009
Article: 1978352 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:13:33 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <017sl4ls1bb7osdc3bof1u8e2s9mo7h64k@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> No, it would just make it easier for Israel to exterminate them. It
>> has always been the Zionist intention to eliminate all non-Jews from
>> the area specified for the mythical kingdoms of David and Solomon.
>
>So that's why the Arab population both in and next to Israel
>increased by a factor of five since Israel was founded in 1948?

The Russian and Polish population in Israel increased even more.

>
>How many members of your family ended their life in a mental
>asylum?  I'm serious,  by the way.  You're crazy,  and from
>what you've written about your parents,  so were they.

Nobody from my family has ever needed psychiatric care. You're
essentially batting zero with your silly babble. You are simply the
object of laughter and derision.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:45 EST 2009
Article: 1978354 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:03:30 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article <6s6v51F4he1sU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Heinrich  wrote:
>
>> But Gaza committed no crime against Israel. 
>
>Firing thousands of missiles at civilian targets is not a crime?

Israel managed to turn Lebanon into an orgy of civilian atrocities, so
why hypocritically whine about a few home-made rockets?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:46 EST 2009
Article: 1978519 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:12:41 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:aa2sl45phjuc7727voht2nipqaujqacibd@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:32:27 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/1/2009 7:35 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>> news:FbOdnQUSxpVszMDUnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the
>>>>>>> forest.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz
>>>>>>> concentarion camp as if its relevance or meaning were in those
>>>>>>> stones. It was there and it is there. Its purpose was to kill
>>>>>>> jews and soviet prisoners of war and other unwanted people by
>>>>>>> heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with cyanide.
>>>>>>> This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants
>>>>>>> not to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks
>>>>>>> with this questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny
>>>>>>> millions of bricks that represent all those people that died
>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>>>>>> Auschwitz.
>>>>> Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>>>>
>>>> That's right. The other million or so (or whatever number the
>>>> industry has declared now) were offed as they stepped from the
>>>> trains.
>>>>
>>>> So much for German efficiency and their anal record keeping
>>>> fixations.
>>>
>>>Quite efficient actually.  Kill them and don't waste paper keeping
>>>statistics, since they already existed anyway.
>>
>> If what you say were true, they wouldn't have kept any records at all.
>
>I'm sure that the Nazi leadership would have appreciated your input.
>
>> Partial records are a waste of the effort needed to keep them.
>
>On the other hand, Hitler had learned not to keep records of orders when the 
>German population found out that he'd been killing German children in the 
>T-4 program.
>
>If you think that Germans kept meticulous records of *all* their activities, 
>then please show us the order from Hitler authorizing the invasion of 
>Russia.

Chancellors don't authorize invasions. Since this operation involved
more than 3.5 million front-line troops, it was obviously authorized
by the Reichstag or there wouldn't be any money for it.

>
>Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we do in fact 
>have records about those other people who arrived at the camps and were 
>summarily killed there.   They are the transport records of those who were 
>shipped in, and never left.
>
>Your imaginings don't affect the reality of what happened.
>
>
>-pk
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:47 EST 2009
Article: 1978522 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:00:43 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 02/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>news:iihsl4dcphradfa8gq5janqa1tumpjdeus@4ax.com: 
>
>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:45:50 -0600, Sara Salzman
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>>>> >news:8Yq6l.385$PH1.21@edtnps82...
>>>> >> Get real Eugene was the room really big enough to hold 2000 Jews.
>>>> >> Is it also true it really took 15 minutes cremate a Jew. Can any
>>>> >> modern crematorium >
>>>> >
>>>> >And so we see that Kurt still doesn't know how to make a valid
>>>> >comparison either.
>>>> >
>>>> >Here's a hint, Kurt.   How many bodies to modern funeral crematory
>>>> >units hold at one time?
>>>> 
>>>> The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
>>>> designed to deal with one body at a time. Mulitiple corpses in baffles
>>>> designed for one would dramatically slow things down, not speed them
>>>> up. Your various scenarios defy the laws of physics and chemistry, and
>>>> is one of the big reasons that I no longer believe your stories.
>>>> 
>>>
>>>But there's one little tiny detail you've failed to take into account: 
>>>the Nazis weren't interested in "cremation," by anyone's standards. They
>>>were incinerating bodies, not cremating them. Comparisons to modern 
>>>crematoriums isn't valid.
>> 
>> Incomplete cremation would leave a lot of residue in the form of bone
>> fragments, etc. resulting in rather more leftovers than the usual
>> kilogram and a half of mineral ash. Even if one assumes complete
>> cremation, the million people you claim were cremated would leave
>> mineral ashes amounting to 1500 tonnes, none of which has been found.
>> When you add to that fuel deliveries totally inadequate to the task
>> and crematorium operations (flames belching from chimneys) that defy
>> the laws of physics and chemistry, you have a story with lots and lots
>> of room for doubt.
>
>
>You just never learn, do you?
>
>Cremation is the act of reducing a corpse by burning, generally in a 
>crematorium furnace or crematory fire. Contrary to popular belief, the 
>remains are not ashes, but rather bone fragments which are then crushed in 
>a device called a cremulator. In funerals, cremation can be an alternative 
>funeral rite to the burial of a body in a grave.

There isn't anything new here. What is your point? The degree of
reduction to mineral ashes depends on how long the cremation process
was allowed to continue.

>
>
>> 
>> 
>>>> >
>>>> >-pk
>>>> >
>>>> >> Ps Non commercial crematorium do the same thing and waht was the
>>>> >> standard before 1945.
>>>> >> Kurt Knoll.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>>>> >> news:holman-3012080740420001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>>> >>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"
>>>> >>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Even if Leuchter would be the foremost expert you would be
>>>> >>>> discrediting him.
>>>> >>>> It is part of your Jewish diet.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Anybody can make a mistake, even an expert. Leuchter's mistake was
>>>> >>> quite simple and one that no expert would make: he worked on the
>>>> >>> assumption that
>>>> >>> a mass execution gas chamber has to be similar in form, design,
>>>> >>> and function to an American penal gas chamber. Even if confronted
>>>> >>> with a perfectly ordinary room, such as the auditorium at the
>>>> >>> Dubrovka Theater in
>>>> >>> Moscow where a terrorist attack in 2002 ended with a
>>>> >>> fast-operating anesthetic being introduced to the ambient air and
>>>> >>> more than 120 of the people trapped inside being killed by it, he
>>>> >>> would not regard the auditorium as a "gas chamber" because it
>>>> >>> lacks the formal attributes of an
>>>> >>> American penal gas chamber despite its having the same
>>>> >>> functionality from the standpoint of the victims. For details, see
>>>> >>> e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thus, everything reduces to definitions. The Nazis do not seem to
>>>> >>> have used anything resembling an American penal gas chamber to
>>>> >>> kill their victims at their death camps, but they *did* have
>>>> >>> structures that enabled them to kill large numbers of people by
>>>> >>> trapping them inside and then introducing poison gas to the air
>>>> >>> they were forced to breathe. Their objective was *not*, as
>>>> >>> erroneously assumed by Leuchter and Faurisson, to replicate an
>>>> >>> American penal gas chamber in form and design, but rather to 
>>>> >>> create and manage the conditions obtaining during a fatal gassing
>>>> >>> accident, thus replicating functionality only. In the most general
>>>> >>> sense a
>>>> >>> gas chamber is an enclosed structure that can be used to kill
>>>> >>> people by manipulating the content of the air anyone trapped
>>>> >>> inside is forced to breathe. Leuchter's arguments to the contrary,
>>>> >>> no engineering safety features, ocean-proof glass, or observance
>>>> >>> of California norms defining minimum floor space per executee to
>>>> >>> assure proper circulation of the lethal agent are necessary.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Everyone knows that fatal gassing accidents, sometimes involving
>>>> >>> dozens of
>>>> >>> people, take place in quite ordinary rooms, ship holds, garages,
>>>> >>> wells, mines, automobiles, cellars, kitchens, and living rooms. In
>>>> >>> 1995 terrorists in Japan managed to kill people in several Tokyo
>>>> >>> subway stations and trains, places that were not sealed and in
>>>> >>> which powerful ventilation systems were running, by introducing a
>>>> >>> sufficient amount of the nerve gas sarin to the ambient air to
>>>> >>> reach a lethal concentration. For details, see e.g.
>>>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin_gas_attack_on_the_Tokyo_subway.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> 
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Regards,
>>>> >>> Eugene Holman
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 
>>>> >


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:47 EST 2009
Article: 1978524 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:56:25 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:iihsl4dcphradfa8gq5janqa1tumpjdeus@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:45:50 -0600, Sara Salzman
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:8Yq6l.385$PH1.21@edtnps82...
>>>> >> Get real Eugene was the room really big enough to hold 2000 Jews. Is 
>>>> >> it
>>>> >> also true it really took 15 minutes cremate a Jew. Can any modern
>>>> >> crematorium >
>>>> >
>>>> >And so we see that Kurt still doesn't know how to make a valid 
>>>> >comparison
>>>> >either.
>>>> >
>>>> >Here's a hint, Kurt.   How many bodies to modern funeral crematory 
>>>> >units
>>>> >hold at one time?
>>>>
>>>> The commercial funeral equipment at the various camps was also
>>>> designed to deal with one body at a time. Mulitiple corpses in baffles
>>>> designed for one would dramatically slow things down, not speed them
>>>> up. Your various scenarios defy the laws of physics and chemistry, and
>>>> is one of the big reasons that I no longer believe your stories.
>>>>
>>>
>>>But there's one little tiny detail you've failed to take into account:
>>>the Nazis weren't interested in "cremation," by anyone's standards. They
>>>were incinerating bodies, not cremating them. Comparisons to modern
>>>crematoriums isn't valid.
>>
>> Incomplete cremation would leave a lot of residue in the form of bone
>> fragments, etc. resulting in rather more leftovers than the usual
>> kilogram and a half of mineral ash.
>
>As they say, so what?

The more than 1500 tonnes of ash and bone fragments were never found.

>
>The purpose was not to cremate the bodies to the minimum volume of ash.
>
>Comparisons to modern funeral crematory practices are not valid.
>
>I realize that you have to try to make the comparison as it's the best you 
>can do.
>
>
>> Even if one assumes complete
>> cremation, the million people you claim were cremated would leave
>> mineral ashes amounting to 1500 tonnes, none of which has been found.
>> When you add to that fuel deliveries totally inadequate to the task
>> and crematorium operations (flames belching from chimneys) that defy
>> the laws of physics and chemistry,
>
>If you think that flames from chimneys  "defy the laws of physics and 
>chemistry", you are very wrong, as Mr. Moran previously learned.
>
>If you look back, you will find Mr. Moran's encounter with Mr. Montesruc, an 
>engineer familiar with the subects of combustion and incineration, in which 
>it becomes apparent that the flaring in no way defies "the laws of physics 
>and chemistry".
>
>-pk
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:47 EST 2009
Article: 1978526 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:28:02 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>> simply make no sense.
>
>Hams Scholl of *die weiße Rose* was a student of medicine in his eighth
>semester who had served the Reich treating wounded and dying soldiers in
>France as well as on the Eastern Front. The Reich had obviously invested a
>considerable amount in him, and he had begun to pay dividends on this
>investment. Nevertheless, instead of sentencing him to be a physician in a
>concentration camp or some other facility where the investment the Reich
>had mad in him could be recovered, he was sentneced to death for being
>involved in the opposition to the Hitler regime and beheaded, along with
>his sister and a fellow medical student, Christoph Probst, the same
>afternoon.
>
>Does that make sense?

What happened to the political opponents of Stalin? Why do you find
this type of thing surprising? It tends to be the nature of a
dictatorship.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:48 EST 2009
Article: 1978527 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:21:55 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article <477sl4h6pgrk5db345upfvk8pfii88jebg@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Since Israel believes in the "right of conquest",
>
>But Israel left both South Lebanon and Gaza.

Yes, but not willingly in the case of Lebanon and the departure from
Gaza was a deceptive farce.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:48 EST 2009
Article: 1978530 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: police killed student in german uniform
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:35:44 +0100, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  schreef in bericht 
>news:vkisl41rd2e7glkoe0ietst4jpmg7pl5tf@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:15 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht
>>>news:gjl0fv$po9$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>>>
>>>> In article <6s6efsF4d6rnU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>       Read the article;  the guy seems to have been a fucking loon. 
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> anyway,  hopefully we will soon kill real Nazis.
>>>>
>>>>> keep on dreaming jew cunt
>>>>
>>>> Why?  We killed you cocksucking Nazis before,  didn't we?  And we
>>>> didn't have H-bombs then.  Next time,  it will be much easier.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>as i toldyou in an earlie reply you better continue draming because you
>>>cannot face reality and start talking baby talk
>>
>> TallHenry is simply somebody who cannot organize himself to take his
>> psychiatric medications on a regular basis. The guy is obviously a few
>> sandwiches short of a picnic as they like to say in Canada.
>
>so you are from Canada, i regret to say that most fruitcakes in this 
>newsgroup are from your side of the ocean especially from cowboyland 

Please don't confuse Canada with the totally fucked up and ridiculous
USA. We share a continent, but the two societies are totally
different.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:49 EST 2009
Article: 1978531 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:43:22 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Israel managed to turn Lebanon into an orgy of civilian atrocities, 
>
>No.  That was the PLO's work,  and later the Hezbollah's.

Oh tell me another funny. Israel was 100.0% the villain in the Lebanon
piece.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:49 EST 2009
Article: 1978534 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:54:23 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <6s726sF4hlmuU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Heinrich  wrote:
>
>> "a-little-sanity"; "please"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:gjljnq$c85$1@pcls6.std.com...
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> Israel managed to turn Lebanon into an orgy of civilian atrocities,
>
>>> No.  That was the PLO's work,  and later the Hezbollah's.
>
>> wrong again 
>
>Not wrong.  Lebanon was a peaceful country until invaded by
>the PLO barbarians.

Lebanon is a cobbled together state that is another disaster of
European colonialism, as is Israel, but in a different way.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:50 EST 2009
Article: 1978541 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:53:17 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Jan 3, 5:53 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>
>>
>> Gaza-2008-9 is very much like Dresden-1945. And as Dresden was annihilated
>> by the RAF toward the end of the Second World War, the 1.5 million
>> inhabitants of Gaza are being decapitated and thoroughly terrorized by the
>> Israeli army, the Wehrmacht of our time.
>
>be very very careful what you wish for.
>So far the Israeli have been very careful to bomb infrastructure and
>hamas.
>Dresden was where the Allies perfected the Fire-storm method of city
>destruction

That is why they needed a virgin target with lots of medieval
buildings. The best efforts of the allies were unable to set Berlin on
fire since the streets are too wide and the buildings too new. It is
interesting to note how you whine piteously about alleged jewish
suffering, but rejoice in allied atrocities. Clearly you are a
hypocrite.

>be very very careful what you wish for.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:50 EST 2009
Article: 1978866 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> > In article ,
>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>
>> >> [...]
>> >>
>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we do in
>> >> > > fact
>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the camps and 
>> >> > > were
>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >> >
>> >> > NO you don't.
>> >> >
>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >>
>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no rebuttal.
>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.  It's
>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >
>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> 
>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>
>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>
>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of children 
>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were killed 
>at Auschwitz.

They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
other location. The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
unfounded supposition.

>
>It proves Mr. Keenan's point, and demonstrates that you are not being 
>honest.
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>Sara
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>> >
>> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:50 EST 2009
Article: 1978867 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:56:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:32:56 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:32:27 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On 1/1/2009 7:35 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:FbOdnQUSxpVszMDUnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> >>> news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>> >>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen" 
>> >>>>  wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>> This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the
>> >>>>> forest.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz
>> >>>>> concentarion camp as if its relevance or meaning were in those
>> >>>>> stones. It was there and it is there. Its purpose was to kill
>> >>>>> jews and soviet prisoners of war and other unwanted people by
>> >>>>> heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with cyanide.
>> >>>>> This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants 
>> >>>>> not to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks
>> >>>>> with this questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny
>> >>>>> millions of bricks that represent all those people that died
>> >>>>> there.
>> >>>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at 
>> >>>> Auschwitz.
>> >>> Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>> >> 
>> >> That's right. The other million or so (or whatever number the
>> >> industry has declared now) were offed as they stepped from the
>> >> trains.
>> >> 
>> >> So much for German efficiency and their anal record keeping
>> >> fixations.
>> >
>> >Quite efficient actually.  Kill them and don't waste paper keeping
>> >statistics, since they already existed anyway.
>> 
>> If what you say were true, they wouldn't have kept any records at all.
>
>Not at all.  They didn't need to keep records of the people killed
>upon arrival because they already had the transportation records

Only, the Reichsbahn didn't apparently keep any records either, since
much of what you claim as documentation simply doesn't exist.

You claim that the Reichsbahn transported millions of people to
Auschwitz. The Reichsbahn doesn't transport anything or anybody for
free, and there appears to be dramatically lacking documentation of
the payments for these alleged transports.

Similarly, the coal and fuel transports to Auschwitz are totally
inadequate to the task of cremating the huge numbers of people you
claim were cremated.

No matter where one looks, there are huge holes and gaps in the
holocaust™ story.

> and
>that would have been needless duplication in the case of people who
>were dead.  But they did need to keep records for the people who were
>admitted to the  camp and registered, and required to carry out
>various functions.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:51 EST 2009
Article: 1978872 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:00:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:31:29 -0500, in
><342sl4pd9c1o02nqgt61sv8hds5et92rtq@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:29:05 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> >news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>> >> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the forest.
>> >>>
>> >>>You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz concentarion 
>> >>>camp
>> >>>as if its relevance or meaning were in those stones. It was there and it 
>> >>>is
>> >>>there. Its purpose was to kill jews and soviet prisoners of war and other
>> >>>unwanted people by heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with
>> >>>cyanide. This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants not
>> >>>to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks with this
>> >>>questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny millions of bricks that
>> >>>represent all those people that died there.
>> >>
>> >> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>> >> Auschwitz.
>> >
>> >Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>> 
>> If THAT were the case, then it wouldn't make any sense to keep ANY
>> records at all. This stuff was never intended to fall into allied
>> hands, so why would anybody keep deliberately incomplete or falsified
>> records for themselves?
>> 
>> Accurate record-keeping has been a kind of religion for German
>> governments for centuries. What you are suggesting is well beyond the
>> pale of probability.
>
>They kept records of the individuals for whom it made some sense to
>keep records, i.e., those admitted to the camp and registered.  It did
>not make sense to keep records for the people killed upon arrival
>because (1) they were dead and (2) the transportation records already
>existed.

That would be somewhat convincing except for the fact that the
Reichsbahn didn't get paid for the alleged transports, and believe me,
the Reichsbahn was not in the habit of transporting anything for
nothing.

Besides, Reichsbahn records would be of no use to the people
organizing the camps. They would have kept their own records. The
holocaust™ bunch alternately claims that the German authorities kept
meticulous records or that they were the world's most slovenly inept
record-keepers on earth on a par with Uganda during the reign of Idi
Amin, all depending on their needs at the time. 



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:51 EST 2009
Article: 1978883 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:04:08 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <0aitl4tqk3k0ct2p9q3rt34s0hk6qjo4bk@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:28:02 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article ,
>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>> >> simply make no sense.
>> >
>> >Hams Scholl of *die weiße Rose* was a student of medicine in his eighth
>> >semester who had served the Reich treating wounded and dying soldiers in
>> >France as well as on the Eastern Front. The Reich had obviously invested a
>> >considerable amount in him, and he had begun to pay dividends on this
>> >investment. Nevertheless, instead of sentencing him to be a physician in a
>> >concentration camp or some other facility where the investment the Reich
>> >had mad in him could be recovered, he was sentneced to death for being
>> >involved in the opposition to the Hitler regime and beheaded, along with
>> >his sister and a fellow medical student, Christoph Probst, the same
>> >afternoon.
>> >
>> >Does that make sense?
>> 
>> What happened to the political opponents of Stalin? 
>
>They were typically sent off to the gulag to work as slave labor, many of
>them eventually dying of overwork and abuse. But we are not talking about
>Stalin, who had enough manpower and allies to sustain more than 25,000,000
>deaths and still crush Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany was notoriously short of
>manpower, resources, and allies of substance right from the beginning.

That is exactly why I take the allied version of WW2 with a large
grain of salt. WW2 was an allied project, not a German one.

> Its
>only chance of winning the war would have been for the USSR to be as
>successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the roughly eight weeks between
>June 22 and mid-August, when north-western Russia has the first night
>frosts.

That is nonsense. The USSR had three times the population of Germany,
whereas Poland was a relative light-weight at half the population of
Germany. The USSR was attacked because the German authorities believed
that there was no other choice. The foreign minister, von Ribbentrop
returned from a meeting with his Soviet counterpart, Molotov,
convinced that the USSR was planning an invasion of Germany for July.
The German invasion in June was an attempt to pre-empt that
possibility.

>
>> Why do you find this type of thing surprising? It tends to be the nature of a
>> dictatorship.
>
>I find it surprising that Nazi Germany would simply kill off people in
>whom it had made such an investment. But then again, it is consistent with
>their practice elsewhere and is one of the main reasons that they lost the
>war.

No, Eugene, they lost the war because it was a country of 84 million
residents fighting against a world coalition with more than 1250
million inhbitants and virtually endless amounts of resources. Germany
was attacked by Britain and France, not the other way around.
Virtually all of Germany's actions were reactions to the initiatives
of somebody else. It certainly wasn't Hitler or his National
Socialists who controlled the timetable of WW2.

> Their strategy was to move into a place and complain that the Jews
>dominated professions such as medicine and dentistry. They passed laws
>forbidding these people from practicing on anyone but Jews , eventually
>rounding up these Jewish physicians and dentists, and killing them, hence
>producing a severe shortage of physicians and dentists. Killing off
>non-Jews in the last stage of qualifying to fill these vacant positions
>just because of their political beliefs makes absolutely no sense and is
>stupider than stupid. 
>
>Regards,
>Egene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:51 EST 2009
Article: 1978887 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>news:rwE7l.1941$PH1.1259@edtnps82: 
>
>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the
>> Palestinians who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>
>
>Are you proud of how the palestinians want to exterminate the Jews who 
>have lived there for the last 2000 years?
>
>
> Up until 1880
>> there were next to no Jews in Palestine.
>
>
>Which means, and thank you for proving this, that up until there were in 
>fact Jews living there.

Yes, there were indeed a FEW Jews living in Palestine in 1850, but no
Russians or Poles, the contingent that makes up the bulk of today's
Israeli population.

>
> Let us know where all of them
>> came from. Is it not the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of
>> their homeland.
>
>It's not the palis homeland, you've proved that Jews have been there for 
>2000 years
>
>
> Is America proud to supply all the killing machines to
>> Israel. Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>Are you proud of the little pali boys that strap on explosives and blow up 
>school busses?
>
>
>> 
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-0301090904080001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> In article <0aitl4tqk3k0ct2p9q3rt34s0hk6qjo4bk@4ax.com>,
>>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:28:02 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >In article ,
>>>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>>>> >> simply make no sense.
>>>> >
>>>> >Hams Scholl of *die weiße Rose* was a student of medicine in his
>>>> >eighth semester who had served the Reich treating wounded and dying
>>>> >soldiers in France as well as on the Eastern Front. The Reich had
>>>> >obviously invested a
>>>> >considerable amount in him, and he had begun to pay dividends on this
>>>> >investment. Nevertheless, instead of sentencing him to be a physician
>>>> >in a
>>>> >concentration camp or some other facility where the investment the
>>>> >Reich had mad in him could be recovered, he was sentneced to death
>>>> >for being involved in the opposition to the Hitler regime and
>>>> >beheaded, along with his sister and a fellow medical student,
>>>> >Christoph Probst, the same afternoon.
>>>> >
>>>> >Does that make sense?
>>>>
>>>> What happened to the political opponents of Stalin?
>>>
>>> They were typically sent off to the gulag to work as slave labor, many
>>> of them eventually dying of overwork and abuse. But we are not talking
>>> about Stalin, who had enough manpower and allies to sustain more than
>>> 25,000,000 deaths and still crush Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany was
>>> notoriously short of manpower, resources, and allies of substance right
>>> from the beginning. Its only chance of winning the war would have been
>>> for the USSR to be as successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the
>>> roughly eight weeks between June 22 and mid-August, when north-western
>>> Russia has the first night frosts.
>>>
>>>> Why do you find this type of thing surprising? It tends to be the
>>>> nature of a
>>>> dictatorship.
>>>
>>> I find it surprising that Nazi Germany would simply kill off people in
>>> whom it had made such an investment. But then again, it is consistent
>>> with their practice elsewhere and is one of the main reasons that they
>>> lost the war. Their strategy was to move into a place and complain that
>>> the Jews dominated professions such as medicine and dentistry. They
>>> passed laws forbidding these people from practicing on anyone but Jews
>>> , eventually rounding up these Jewish physicians and dentists, and
>>> killing them, hence producing a severe shortage of physicians and
>>> dentists. Killing off non-Jews in the last stage of qualifying to fill
>>> these vacant positions just because of their political beliefs makes
>>> absolutely no sense and is stupider than stupid.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Egene Holman 
>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:52 EST 2009
Article: 1978889 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:02:03 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Kurt Knoll"
> wrote:
>
>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the Palestinians 
>> who have lived there for the last 2000 years. 
>
>Kurt, you are changing the subject.
>
>> Up until 1880 there were next 
>> to no Jews in Palestine. Let us know where all of them came from. Is it not 
>> the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of their homeland. Is America 
>> proud to supply all the killing machines to Israel.
>
>
>There has always been some type of Jewish presence in the region,
>Jerusalem being what it is.  I am on record here as having said that, for
>the most part, I disapprove of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians.
>Israel does, howver, have the right to defend itself.

There have been a few people of Chinese extraction in southern Ontario
for quite a long time also, but they have not made any attempt to
import Chinese people in such numbers as to overthrow the local order
and establish a state in southern Ontario dedicated to people who are
ethnically Chinese. That scenario is exactly what happened in
Palestine. The indigenous people were swamped by European
colonialists, mainly from Russia and Poland, who have used their
artificially created majority to impose an alien state on the local
people. 

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:52 EST 2009
Article: 1978894 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 20:47:25 -0800 (PST), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>On Jan 3, 4:18 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:43:22 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >In article ,
>> >Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> >> Israel managed to turn Lebanon into an orgy of civilian atrocities,
>>
>> >No.  That was the PLO's work,  and later the Hezbollah's.
>>
>> Oh tell me another funny. Israel was 100.0% the villain in the Lebanon
>> piece.
>
>Israel was attacked , by Bombing as well as attackcs from the sea , +
>the Christian people in the south Begged Isreal for help ,
>mirjam

The Slovaks asked Hitler for help against the Czechs. I've seen these
lines before.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:53 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: difference between Dresden and Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 04:19:25 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>How many hospital in Germany destruct.

Don't confuse "I'll always be here" with facts. The fact is that
neither Guernica or Warsaw or even London amount to a blip on the
screen compared to allied anti-civilian work. To mention them in the
same sentence as Hamburg, Dresden, or Köln is itself an exercise in
deception. Much of the damage in Warsaw was done by the Communists
(read allies) during the final stages of WW2, and not by any bombing.


>Kurt Knoll
>
>"I'll Always Be 02/01/09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B87BDB594BA9Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>> news:ptitl49uqkjjh6cgt7un2bm7ohmrmm7ql4@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:53:17 -0800 (PST), george 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Jan 3, 5:53 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gaza-2008-9 is very much like Dresden-1945. And as Dresden was
>>>>> annihilated by the RAF toward the end of the Second World War, the 1.5
>>>>> million inhabitants of Gaza are being decapitated and thoroughly
>>>>> terrorized by the Israeli army, the Wehrmacht of our time.
>>>>
>>>>be very very careful what you wish for.
>>>>So far the Israeli have been very careful to bomb infrastructure and
>>>>hamas.
>>>>Dresden was where the Allies perfected the Fire-storm method of city
>>>>destruction
>>>
>>> That is why they needed a virgin target with lots of medieval
>>> buildings. The best efforts of the allies were unable to set Berlin on
>>> fire since the streets are too wide and the buildings too new. It is
>>> interesting to note how you whine piteously about alleged jewish
>>> suffering, but rejoice in allied atrocities. Clearly you are a
>>> hypocrite.
>>
>> What atrocity are yo talking about? The one in Guernica when the Condor
>> Legion bombed innocent Spanish civilians or the one where the germans
>> bombed the hospitals in Warsaw
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>be very very careful what you wish for.
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:53 EST 2009
Article: 1978921 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GOEBBELS OF ISRAELI PROPAGANDA UNLEASHES LIES AND DECEIT.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:22:56 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
 wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in news:6s8dgaF4ocsdU1
>@mid.individual.net:
>
>> Remi Kanazi
>
>Yet another nazi

No, jackass, you have that market cornered.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:53 EST 2009
Article: 1978933 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:25:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>>> > In article ,
>>>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>>>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> [...]
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we 
>>>> >> > > do in
>>>> >> > > fact
>>>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the camps 
>>>> >> > > and
>>>> >> > > were
>>>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > NO you don't.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no rebuttal.
>>>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.  It's
>>>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>>>> >
>>>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>>>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>>>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>>>>
>>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>>>
>>>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>>>
>>>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of children
>>>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were killed
>>>at Auschwitz.
>>
>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> other location.
>
>In which case there would be records of them leaving.

Why would they record them leaving if they didn't bother with
recording their arrival?

>
>> The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> unfounded supposition.
>
>If you belive that, then by all means, produce the transit records showing 
>that they went elsewhere.

There are few, if any, transit records showing their arrival. It is
all unfounded supposition. The basic holocaust™ paradigm is that
anybody in Europe whose fate is unknown died at Auschwitz. That is the
ultimate foundation of the myth and cult pushed by the holocaust™
industry.

>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>It proves Mr. Keenan's point, and demonstrates that you are not being
>>>honest.
>>>
>>>Hope that helps.
>>>
>>>Sara
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > -- 
>>>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>>>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>>>> >
>>>> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:54 EST 2009
Article: 1978935 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:10:23 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-0301091602030001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the Palestinians
>>> who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>>
>> Kurt, you are changing the subject.
>>
>>> Up until 1880 there were next
>>> to no Jews in Palestine. Let us know where all of them came from. Is it 
>>> not
>>> the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of their homeland. Is 
>>> America
>>> proud to supply all the killing machines to Israel.
>> 
>>
>> There has always been some type of Jewish presence in the region,
>> Jerusalem being what it is.  I am on record here as having said that, for
>> the most part, I disapprove of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians.
>> Israel does, howver, have the right to defend itself.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman
>
>Look at it this way, the Palestinians have lived there for the last 2000 
>years and the Jews are returning after 2000 years. Who gives them right to 
>drive the Palestinian their homeland.

If you've been listening to some of the participants on this
newsgroup, it is because they regard jews as more important than
others.

>Kurt Knoll.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:54 EST 2009
Article: 1978938 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:40:35 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>news:jSN7l.1233$Db2.706@edtnps83...
>>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-0301091602030001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the 
>>>> Palestinians
>>>> who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>>>
>>> Kurt, you are changing the subject.
>>>
>>>> Up until 1880 there were next
>>>> to no Jews in Palestine. Let us know where all of them came from. Is it 
>>>> not
>>>> the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of their homeland. Is 
>>>> America
>>>> proud to supply all the killing machines to Israel.
>>> 
>>>
>>> There has always been some type of Jewish presence in the region,
>>> Jerusalem being what it is.  I am on record here as having said that, for
>>> the most part, I disapprove of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians.
>>> Israel does, howver, have the right to defend itself.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eugene Holman
>>
>> Look at it this way, the Palestinians have lived there for the last 2000 
>> years
>
>So did Jews.
>
>But it was never "Palestinian" land; it was Roman or Ottoman.

No, they were just some more conquistadors who came and went over the
centuries. What they stole wasn't theirs. They just exercised the
totally bankrupt "might is right" philosophy.

>
>> and the Jews are returning after 2000 years. Who gives them right to drive 
>> the Palestinian their homeland.
>
>Kurt, the Palestinians could have had a state in 1948.   Everything was in 
>place, but their Arab "brethren", for political reasons, refused to allow 
>them to have it.
>
>There's a good argument that the Arab states have more responsibility for 
>the tragedy of the Palestinians than anyone else.
>
>-pk
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:54 EST 2009
Article: 1978939 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: police killed student in german uniform
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 11:45:40 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Jan 2, 9:16 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:35:44 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  schreef in bericht
>> >news:vkisl41rd2e7glkoe0ietst4jpmg7pl5tf@4ax.com...
>> >> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:16:15 +0100, "Heinrich" 
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht
>> >>>news:gjl0fv$po9$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>
>> >>>> In article <6s6efsF4d6r...@mid.individual.net>,
>> >>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>       Read the article;  the guy seems to have been a fucking loon.
>> >>>>>> But
>> >>>>>> anyway,  hopefully we will soon kill real Nazis.
>>
>> >>>>> keep on dreaming jew cunt
>>
>> >>>> Why?  We killed you cocksucking Nazis before,  didn't we?  And we
>> >>>> didn't have H-bombs then.  Next time,  it will be much easier.
>>
>> >>>as i toldyou in an earlie reply you better continue draming because you
>> >>>cannot face reality and start talking baby talk
>>
>> >> TallHenry is simply somebody who cannot organize himself to take his
>> >> psychiatric medications on a regular basis. The guy is obviously a few
>> >> sandwiches short of a picnic as they like to say in Canada.
>>
>> >so you are from Canada, i regret to say that most fruitcakes in this
>> >newsgroup are from your side of the ocean especially from cowboyland
>>
>> Please don't confuse Canada with the totally fucked up and ridiculous
>> USA. We share a continent, but the two societies are totally
>> different.
>
>Canadians are mostly OK.  Beware the Newfoundlander though.  When the
>Newfie fisherman goes on holidays what does he do?  He goes fishing.

What else is there to do in Newfoundland?  LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:55 EST 2009
Article: 1979040 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4nrvl45reck36mobavdnkdf37cj95rh29r@4ax.com>
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:32:11 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> other location. 
>
>430,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
>of 1944.  Since entire populations were deported,  about
>100,000 of them were children.  What happened to these
>children?

If they went to Auschwitz, why do U.S. military photographs of the
region taken during the time-frame in question not show any trace of
them?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:55 EST 2009
Article: 1979042 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:00:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:erhtl4hmgasrqfpvrk1ke1rtqebkfe5d5u@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:12:41 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:aa2sl45phjuc7727voht2nipqaujqacibd@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 01 Jan 2009 20:32:27 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 1/1/2009 7:35 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:FbOdnQUSxpVszMDUnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the
>>>>>>>>> forest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz
>>>>>>>>> concentarion camp as if its relevance or meaning were in those
>>>>>>>>> stones. It was there and it is there. Its purpose was to kill
>>>>>>>>> jews and soviet prisoners of war and other unwanted people by
>>>>>>>>> heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with cyanide.
>>>>>>>>> This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants
>>>>>>>>> not to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks
>>>>>>>>> with this questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny
>>>>>>>>> millions of bricks that represent all those people that died
>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>>>>>>>> Auschwitz.
>>>>>>> Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's right. The other million or so (or whatever number the
>>>>>> industry has declared now) were offed as they stepped from the
>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So much for German efficiency and their anal record keeping
>>>>>> fixations.
>>>>>
>>>>>Quite efficient actually.  Kill them and don't waste paper keeping
>>>>>statistics, since they already existed anyway.
>>>>
>>>> If what you say were true, they wouldn't have kept any records at all.
>>>
>>>I'm sure that the Nazi leadership would have appreciated your input.
>>>
>>>> Partial records are a waste of the effort needed to keep them.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, Hitler had learned not to keep records of orders when 
>>>the
>>>German population found out that he'd been killing German children in the
>>>T-4 program.
>>>
>>>If you think that Germans kept meticulous records of *all* their 
>>>activities,
>>>then please show us the order from Hitler authorizing the invasion of
>>>Russia.
>>
>> Chancellors don't authorize invasions.
>
>Chancellors are also not dictators.
>
>> Since this operation involved
>> more than 3.5 million front-line troops, it was obviously authorized
>> by the Reichstag  or there wouldn't be any money for it.
>
>Perhaps you are unaware of Hitler's role in the German military.

No, I'm not unaware of how the German government works. Hitler may
have been a dictator, but nothing he did negated the powers of the
Reichstag and Reichsrat, which controlled the purse strings.

>
>I would suggest that you educate yourself as to what his role actually was.

LOL  You are so pompous and condescending that it is funny.

>
>In  the meantime, you can also produce the orders originating the 
>authorisation of the invasion of Russia.

The general staff would have produced a recommendation to this effect.
No order from Hitler was required. The foreign minister was convinced
that Stalin was going to attack Germany by July of 1941, in which case
no "order" by the Chancellor would have been required.

>
>-pk
>
>>
>>>
>>>Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we do in fact
>>>have records about those other people who arrived at the camps and were
>>>summarily killed there.   They are the transport records of those who were
>>>shipped in, and never left.
>>>
>>>Your imaginings don't affect the reality of what happened.
>>>
>>>
>>>-pk
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:56 EST 2009
Article: 1979043 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:33:46 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> You claim that the Reichsbahn transported millions of people to
>> Auschwitz.
>
>Including 430,000 Hungarian Jews in the summer of 1944:
>
>http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/html/de/aktualnosci/news.php?rok=1999

Why did American military photographs show no sign of them?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:56 EST 2009
Article: 1979047 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:36:31 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:72dvl4pu5m8f7umjnfqs049m52orlht4fh@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:00:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:31:29 -0500, in
>>><342sl4pd9c1o02nqgt61sv8hds5et92rtq@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:29:05 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>> >news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>>>> >> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>> >>  wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the 
>>>> >>>forest.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz 
>>>> >>>concentarion
>>>> >>>camp
>>>> >>>as if its relevance or meaning were in those stones. It was there and 
>>>> >>>it
>>>> >>>is
>>>> >>>there. Its purpose was to kill jews and soviet prisoners of war and 
>>>> >>>other
>>>> >>>unwanted people by heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing 
>>>> >>>with
>>>> >>>cyanide. This is very well witnessed by survivors and the 
>>>> >>>participants not
>>>> >>>to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks with this
>>>> >>>questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny millions of bricks 
>>>> >>>that
>>>> >>>represent all those people that died there.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>>>> >> Auschwitz.
>>>> >
>>>> >Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>>>>
>>>> If THAT were the case, then it wouldn't make any sense to keep ANY
>>>> records at all. This stuff was never intended to fall into allied
>>>> hands, so why would anybody keep deliberately incomplete or falsified
>>>> records for themselves?
>>>>
>>>> Accurate record-keeping has been a kind of religion for German
>>>> governments for centuries. What you are suggesting is well beyond the
>>>> pale of probability.
>>>
>>>They kept records of the individuals for whom it made some sense to
>>>keep records, i.e., those admitted to the camp and registered.  It did
>>>not make sense to keep records for the people killed upon arrival
>>>because (1) they were dead and (2) the transportation records already
>>>existed.
>>
>> That would be somewhat convincing except for the fact that the
>> Reichsbahn didn't get paid for the alleged transports,
>
>How do you know this?   Have you examined the records?
>
>They do exist and can be examined, you know.   That's part of how we know 
>how many were sent into the camps and never left.
>
>> and believe me,
>
>Why on earth would *anyone* believe you?
>
>> the Reichsbahn was not in the habit of transporting anything for
>> nothing.
>>
>> Besides, Reichsbahn records would be of no use to the people
>> organizing the camps.
>
>But they are of use to us, and they are available to scholars. 

That is nonsense. Much of the material consists of pretty clumsy
forgeries. I've seen too many Nuremberg "documents" obviously typed on
American typewriters on non-standard paper to be impressed with
anything that was ever in the hands of the allies.

We do have freedom of religion, so you're entitled to believe whatever
you want, and I'm also entitled to reject your beliefs.


>   These 
>records have informed us of the people who arrived at the camps, and never 
>left.
>
>> They would have kept their own records.
>
>And there was no need to record those who were not added to the camp 
>population.
>
>Those who were selected for death as they came off the trains were not added 
>to the camp populations.
>
>
>> The
>> holocaustT bunch alternately claims that the German authorities kept
>> meticulous records or that they were the world's most slovenly inept
>> record-keepers on earth
>
>Again, you are incorrect.   The Germans did keep meticulous records.  And 
>there are massive amounts of records that have survived; they could not 
>destroy them all as they lost the war.   That fact is why we have so many of 
>them, and why the Bad Arolson archives contain around 26 km of records.
>
>In some cases, orders were not written, in particular orders that directed 
>commission of criminal acts.   This is what Hitler learned when the German 
>population discovered that he had been murdering German children in the T-4 
>program.
>
>-pk
>
>
>> on a par with Uganda during the reign of Idi
>> Amin, all depending on their needs at the time.
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:56 EST 2009
Article: 1979048 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:28:47 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> The more than 1500 tonnes of ash and bone fragments were never found.
>
>Such a tiresome,  lying fool you are.

You are the fool. I ask about ashes at Auschwitz, and you babble on
about mass graves (which wouldn't even be required if the people were
cremated) at some other location. You are clearly a jackass who knows
little about anything, despite your stupid pseudonym.

>
>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>
>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>
>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>
>   
>
>   A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was 
>conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists,  headed by
>Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland,  who is the
>author of more than 130 papers on archaeology.  The team studied the site
>of the death camp,  drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core 
>samples.  The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA: 
>"BELZEC.  THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES. 
>Excavations 1997-1999".  ISBN 83-905590-6-4).  The study has recovered 
>human remains over a very large area,  to a depth of up to six meters. 
>The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:56 EST 2009
Article: 1979049 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:32:57 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
 wrote:

>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in news:IRI7l.1189$Db2.333
>@edtnps83:
>
>> 
>> "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"  wrote in message 
>> news:Xns9B88F542C0C3Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>> news:rwE7l.1941$PH1.1259@edtnps82:
>>>
>>>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the
>>>> Palestinians who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you proud of how the palestinians want to exterminate the Jews who
>>> have lived there for the last 2000 years?
>> If they did live there why denn did the imigrate there.
>
>Why did you emigrate to Canada?

My parents took me along. What the hell do you think?



> It's not your homeland.
>
>
>> Kurt Knoll.
>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Up until 1880
>>>> there were next to no Jews in Palestine.
>>>
>>>
>>> Which means, and thank you for proving this, that up until there were 
>in
>>> fact Jews living there.
>>>
>>> Let us know where all of them
>>>> came from. Is it not the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of
>>>> their homeland.
>>>
>>> It's not the palis homeland, you've proved that Jews have been there 
>for
>>> 2000 years
>>>
>>>
>>> Is America proud to supply all the killing machines to
>>>> Israel. Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you proud of the little pali boys that strap on explosives and blow 
>up
>>> school busses?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:holman-0301090904080001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>> In article <0aitl4tqk3k0ct2p9q3rt34s0hk6qjo4bk@4ax.com>,
>>>>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:28:02 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >In article ,
>>>>>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>>>>>> >> simply make no sense.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Hams Scholl of *die weiße Rose* was a student of medicine in his
>>>>>> >eighth semester who had served the Reich treating wounded and dying
>>>>>> >soldiers in France as well as on the Eastern Front. The Reich had
>>>>>> >obviously invested a
>>>>>> >considerable amount in him, and he had begun to pay dividends on 
>this
>>>>>> >investment. Nevertheless, instead of sentencing him to be a 
>physician
>>>>>> >in a
>>>>>> >concentration camp or some other facility where the investment the
>>>>>> >Reich had mad in him could be recovered, he was sentneced to death
>>>>>> >for being involved in the opposition to the Hitler regime and
>>>>>> >beheaded, along with his sister and a fellow medical student,
>>>>>> >Christoph Probst, the same afternoon.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Does that make sense?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What happened to the political opponents of Stalin?
>>>>>
>>>>> They were typically sent off to the gulag to work as slave labor, 
>many
>>>>> of them eventually dying of overwork and abuse. But we are not 
>talking
>>>>> about Stalin, who had enough manpower and allies to sustain more than
>>>>> 25,000,000 deaths and still crush Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany was
>>>>> notoriously short of manpower, resources, and allies of substance 
>right
>>>>> from the beginning. Its only chance of winning the war would have 
>been
>>>>> for the USSR to be as successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the
>>>>> roughly eight weeks between June 22 and mid-August, when north-
>western
>>>>> Russia has the first night frosts.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you find this type of thing surprising? It tends to be the
>>>>>> nature of a
>>>>>> dictatorship.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it surprising that Nazi Germany would simply kill off people 
>in
>>>>> whom it had made such an investment. But then again, it is consistent
>>>>> with their practice elsewhere and is one of the main reasons that 
>they
>>>>> lost the war. Their strategy was to move into a place and complain 
>that
>>>>> the Jews dominated professions such as medicine and dentistry. They
>>>>> passed laws forbidding these people from practicing on anyone but 
>Jews
>>>>> , eventually rounding up these Jewish physicians and dentists, and
>>>>> killing them, hence producing a severe shortage of physicians and
>>>>> dentists. Killing off non-Jews in the last stage of qualifying to 
>fill
>>>>> these vacant positions just because of their political beliefs makes
>>>>> absolutely no sense and is stupider than stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Egene Holman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:57 EST 2009
Article: 1979050 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:37:04 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in 
>news:oudvl4h0duhdg61k3lgfo4cfoccu1onnhj@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:30:27 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>>>news:rwE7l.1941$PH1.1259@edtnps82: 
>>>
>>>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the
>>>> Palestinians who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>>>
>>>
>>>Are you proud of how the palestinians want to exterminate the Jews who 
>>>have lived there for the last 2000 years?
>>>
>>>
>>> Up until 1880
>>>> there were next to no Jews in Palestine.
>>>
>>>
>>>Which means, and thank you for proving this, that up until then there 
>>>were in fact Jews living there.

Nobody is disputing that some Jews lived in Palestine.

>> 
>> Yes, there were indeed a FEW Jews living in Palestine in 1850, but no
>> Russians or Poles, the contingent that makes up the bulk of today's
>> Israeli population.
>
>
>Once again, thank you for admitting that Jews have always lived in 
>palestine.
>
>
>> 
>>>
>>> Let us know where all of them
>>>> came from. Is it not the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of
>>>> their homeland.
>>>
>>>It's not the palis homeland, you've proved that Jews have been there for 
>>>2000 years
>>>
>>>
>>> Is America proud to supply all the killing machines to
>>>> Israel. Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>
>>>Are you proud of the little pali boys that strap on explosives and blow 
>up 
>>>school busses?
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:holman-0301090904080001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>> In article <0aitl4tqk3k0ct2p9q3rt34s0hk6qjo4bk@4ax.com>,
>>>>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:28:02 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>>>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >In article ,
>>>>>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> Why even bother to transport them in the first place? The stories
>>>>>> >> simply make no sense.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Hams Scholl of *die weiße Rose* was a student of medicine in his
>>>>>> >eighth semester who had served the Reich treating wounded and dying
>>>>>> >soldiers in France as well as on the Eastern Front. The Reich had
>>>>>> >obviously invested a
>>>>>> >considerable amount in him, and he had begun to pay dividends on 
>this
>>>>>> >investment. Nevertheless, instead of sentencing him to be a 
>physician
>>>>>> >in a
>>>>>> >concentration camp or some other facility where the investment the
>>>>>> >Reich had mad in him could be recovered, he was sentneced to death
>>>>>> >for being involved in the opposition to the Hitler regime and
>>>>>> >beheaded, along with his sister and a fellow medical student,
>>>>>> >Christoph Probst, the same afternoon.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Does that make sense?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What happened to the political opponents of Stalin?
>>>>>
>>>>> They were typically sent off to the gulag to work as slave labor, 
>many
>>>>> of them eventually dying of overwork and abuse. But we are not 
>talking
>>>>> about Stalin, who had enough manpower and allies to sustain more than
>>>>> 25,000,000 deaths and still crush Nazi Germany. Nazi Germany was
>>>>> notoriously short of manpower, resources, and allies of substance 
>right
>>>>> from the beginning. Its only chance of winning the war would have 
>been
>>>>> for the USSR to be as successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the
>>>>> roughly eight weeks between June 22 and mid-August, when north-
>western
>>>>> Russia has the first night frosts.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you find this type of thing surprising? It tends to be the
>>>>>> nature of a
>>>>>> dictatorship.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find it surprising that Nazi Germany would simply kill off people 
>in
>>>>> whom it had made such an investment. But then again, it is consistent
>>>>> with their practice elsewhere and is one of the main reasons that 
>they
>>>>> lost the war. Their strategy was to move into a place and complain 
>that
>>>>> the Jews dominated professions such as medicine and dentistry. They
>>>>> passed laws forbidding these people from practicing on anyone but 
>Jews
>>>>> , eventually rounding up these Jewish physicians and dentists, and
>>>>> killing them, hence producing a severe shortage of physicians and
>>>>> dentists. Killing off non-Jews in the last stage of qualifying to 
>fill
>>>>> these vacant positions just because of their political beliefs makes
>>>>> absolutely no sense and is stupider than stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Egene Holman 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:57 EST 2009
Article: 1979054 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
 wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>news:l1ivl4dgioe584elllmrd33rudav8ghjf4@4ax.com: 
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:40:35 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>"Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message 
>>>news:jSN7l.1233$Db2.706@edtnps83...
>>>>
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:holman-0301091602030001@ke-hupnet233-25.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>> In article , "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Eugene are you proud of how the Jews want to exterminate the 
>>>>>> Palestinians
>>>>>> who have lived there for the last 2000 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kurt, you are changing the subject.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Up until 1880 there were next
>>>>>> to no Jews in Palestine. Let us know where all of them came from. Is
>>>>>> it not
>>>>>> the coal of Israel to drive the Palestinians of their homeland. Is 
>>>>>> America
>>>>>> proud to supply all the killing machines to Israel.
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> There has always been some type of Jewish presence in the region,
>>>>> Jerusalem being what it is.  I am on record here as having said that,
>>>>> for the most part, I disapprove of Israeli policy towards the
>>>>> Palestinians. Israel does, howver, have the right to defend itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Eugene Holman
>>>>
>>>> Look at it this way, the Palestinians have lived there for the last
>>>> 2000 years
>>>
>>>So did Jews.
>>>
>>>But it was never "Palestinian" land; it was Roman or Ottoman.
>> 
>> No, they were just some more conquistadors who came and went over the
>> centuries. What they stole wasn't theirs. They just exercised the
>> totally bankrupt "might is right" philosophy.
>
>
>Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?

That is an allied fabrication. I'm slowly getting annoyed with your
stupid rudeness with the grammatical errors in English. National
descriptions, such as German are capitalized in English. The fact that
you deliberately neglect that convention when discussing Germany
suggests to me that you are an ignorant bigot and jackass with whom it
just isn't worth the bother to have a conversation.

At this point, you go into a filter that marks your stuff as read
before I see it. I really don't need to see your nonsense and your
insults.

>
>
>> 
>>>
>>>> and the Jews are returning after 2000 years. Who gives them right to
>>>> drive the Palestinian their homeland.
>>>
>>>Kurt, the Palestinians could have had a state in 1948.   Everything was
>>>in place, but their Arab "brethren", for political reasons, refused to
>>>allow them to have it.
>>>
>>>There's a good argument that the Arab states have more responsibility
>>>for the tragedy of the Palestinians than anyone else.
>>>
>>>-pk
>>>
>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:58 EST 2009
Article: 1979055 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This is not about rockets
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:20:17 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:21:55 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
>>  wrote:
>
>>> But Israel left both South Lebanon and Gaza.
>
>> Yes, but not willingly in the case of Lebanon and the departure from
>> Gaza was a deceptive farce.
>
>Irrelevant crap.  Israel left these locations,  and they continued
>to viciously attack Israel.  Whatever calamity falls upon their heads,
>they have only themselves to blame.  Much like the Nazis.

Give it a fucking rest. Most of the world just isn't buying into your
lies and distortions anymore. There just isn't that much difference
between you and the Nazis you love to bash so much.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:58 EST 2009
Article: 1979061 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gassings in Auschwitz-Birkenau. Where was the actual big activity on 25th August 1944?
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On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:07:30 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , Zulu   wrote:
>
>> a-little-sanity escribió:
>
>>> Let's start with the 430,000 Hungarian Jews deported to Auschwitz
>>> in the summer of 1944.  Since entire populations were deported,
>>> about 100,000 of them were children.  How many Jewish children were
>>> released from Nazi concentration camps?
>
>> LOL.
>> See on those aerial photos how much *busy" was that "killing zone*
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2004/jan/17/photography.highereducation
>
>Now,  tell us what happened to these 430,000 Hungarian Jews.  But
>no speculations.  Hard facts only.

Only enough, a prosecution in Germany failed because the pits could
not be located, and American photographs taken during the time showed
nothing.

A "photograph" that surfaces 60 years after the fact is pretty
suspicious, especially given that all manner of wonderful illusions
are possible today with computer software.

The air photograph shown could be anything at all, and the only
"evidence" is the caption that claims that it is an aerial photograph
of Auschwitz. There have been thousands of photgraphs that have been
misrepresented using false captions. I'm not impressed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:59 EST 2009
Article: 1979475 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>>  wrote:
>
>
>
>> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>> 
>> That is an allied fabrication. 
>
>How so?
>
>Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria

Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.

>and the
>incorporation of the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in 1938.

The Sudetenland had an almost exclusively German population that
should never have been assigned to Czechoslovakia in the first place.
There were a hell of a lot more Germans in the farce known as
Czechoslovakia than there were Slovaks, but their name doesn't even
appear in the title. Czechoslovakia was an arbitrary and capricious
Versailles-state.

>He continued
>with the reduction of the Czech lands to a German  protectorate

The Slovaks wanted out from under the Czechs in 1938, and they finally
achieved their independence from the Czech louts in 1990.

>and the
>invasion of Poland in 1939 and the incorporation of some of its western
>parts into the Reich,

That was a stolen property recovery. The western portions of Poland
were areas stolen from Germany, and actually still are.

> the incorporation of Luxembourg and Alsace into the
>Reich in 1940,

Alsace was ripped off from Germany by Louis XIV. It has pretty much
exclusively German town names and a German population. Luxembourg was
not annexed, but occupied.

> and then, the ultimate project, the attack on the USSR on
>June 22, 1941, which produced at least the incorporation of the Baltic
>countries into the expanded Reich as Ostland, with Riga as its capital.

Riga started out life as a German trading post, and Latvia became part
of Russia in 1721. It was the treaty of Brest-Litovsk that created the
independent country known as Latvia as a result of Russia's 1917
defeat by Germany.

>Nazi policy in occupied Poland, the Baltic countries, Byelorussia, the
>Ukraine, and western Russia, populated, according to the Nazis by
>*Untermenchsen*, was exceptionally brutal and well documented by both
>victims and perpetrators, e.g.
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/gif/img001.gif.
>
>The concept of *Lebensraum* antedates Nazism. Indeed, it has been a part
>of the policy carried out by various German states and smaller political
>units since the Crusades. Roughly speaking, everything German east of the
>Elbe is the result of German eastern expansion.

That analysis has been significantly outdated. Slavic is not an ethnic
group, but a language group. In AD800, there were no Slavs in Europe.
Germanic peoples covered all the terrain from the Ural mountains to
the Atlantic.  Slavs are a creation of the Roman Catholic Church
designating mostly Germanic people who were not RC as "slaves of the
devil", later Slavs. The Slavic language group is largely the creation
of the monks Cyrill and Methodius, and that relatively recently.

>Every student of German
>history knows that the city names Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, and Chemnitz
>are of Slavic origin, that the Sorbs of south-eastern Germany (Bzk.
>Bautzen) are the last remnants of the Slavic population that was mostly
>killed off or forcibly absorbed into the Germans

The Sorbs are speak a Slavic language, but they are not ethnically
different from the rest of the bunch in the area. There is no Slavic
type, but there actually IS a Nordic type.

Your diatribe is junk history with no foundation in fact.

>, that the Prussians were
>originally a Baltic tribe also killed off or forcibly absorbed,

The Pruss were in fact Balts, but they were hardly killed off or
absorbed, except in self-serving modern Polish mythology.

> with their
>name recycled, and that the Baltic German communities in Latvia and
>Estonia trace their roots to the medieval Knights of the Sword. 

Germans brought civilization to those areas. Riga and Talinn are
German foundations.

>
>Hitler wrote extensively about *Labensraum* in *Mein Kampf*

Bully for him, but that doesn't mean much. The guy was entitled to his
opinions, some of which make sense and some don't. He also thought of
Jews as a race, which is totally ridiculous. Jews are a diverse bunch
of people who subscribe to the religion known as Judaism.


, and it is
>also mentioned in the speeches given by him and other Nazi leaders. To
>call it an Allied fabrication is historically inaccurate. For more on the
>concept, see
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml.

Sure, give me a self-serving British propaganda site as a reference.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:32:59 EST 2009
Article: 1979476 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:03:55 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:08:28 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:04:08 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> > Its
>> >only chance of winning the war would have been for the USSR to be as
>> >successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the roughly eight weeks between
>> >June 22 and mid-August, when north-western Russia has the first night
>> >frosts.
>> 
>> That is nonsense. The USSR had three times the population of Germany,
>> whereas Poland was a relative light-weight at half the population of
>> Germany. The USSR was attacked because the German authorities believed
>> that there was no other choice. The foreign minister, von Ribbentrop
>> returned from a meeting with his Soviet counterpart, Molotov,
>> convinced that the USSR was planning an invasion of Germany for July.
>> The German invasion in June was an attempt to pre-empt that
>> possibility.
>
>That is the propaganda reason given by the German government at the
>time, but there is not a shred of evidence to support it, since it was
>made up.

The bulk of the Soviet forces were captured within a few kilometres of
the demarcation line through Poland. That is not a defensive position.
They were simply surprised in the process of putting together an
invasion. The German military authorities had actually expected the
invasion to be tougher, and it would have been, had the USSR been in a
classical defensive position.

> The first plans to invade the Soviet Union were issued in
>December 1940 - yes, 1940.

The British had been planning to attack Germany as early as 1930, or
do you think that fleets of 4-engined holocaust bombers can be created
in a few milliseconds after war breaks out. All European countries had
contingency plans involving various neighbours, and being
double-crossed by Stalin was always a possibility, so I don't doubt
that there were contingency plans.

The USA probably has contingency plans for an invasion of Canada, but
that doesn't mean that it will actually happen any time soon.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:00 EST 2009
Article: 1979477 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cross Examination-A Tool To Insure Accurate Verbal Testimony
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On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:30:32 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:7a900a7d-1e64-4ebf-aa50-d7d542f4b6c2@g3g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>On Jan 2, 4:06 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:f1088e04-9a23-4adf-afa5-723cfa685ce7@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 1, 11:23 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> >news:ef6a1dd9-48ec-42d1-a796-c72f5ee55fd7@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Jan 1, 1:04 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>> > > "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> > >news:ta%6l.62851$ly1.24029@newsfe19.iad...
>>
>> > > > "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message
>> > > >news:2OKdnbtBd9K9yMHUnZ2dnUVZ_r3inZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> > > >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>> > > >>news:a1fol45pqi22miu7u12pa1u6fjkn0mjkk7@4ax.com...
>> > > >>> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 11:19:32 +1000, in
>> > > >>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> > > >>>  wrote:
>>
>> > > >>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>> > > >>>>news:11ff43f4-b118-43a5-a00a-089cd9ef1911@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> > > >>>> >http://www.abanet.org/publiced/courts/crossexam.html
>>
>> > > >>>> There was little or no corss-examination at the Nuremberg 
>> > > >>>> "trials"
>> > > >>>> was
>> > > >>>> there, b'luto.
>>
>> > > >>> Actually, there was. A Google search on "cross examination at
>> > > >>> Nuremberg" returns 36,900 hits.
>>
>> > > >> Which hardly qualifies for what today is considered to be
>> > > >> cross-examination
>>
>> > > > I see. Tell us all where you went to law school, passed the bar exam
>> > > > and
>> > > > practiced law.
>>
>> > > You passed b'ollocks, b'luto.
>>
>> > > Every time you open your gob you make mistakes or just downright lie.
>> > > You've
>> > > just finished making a fool of yourself over your total nonsense about
>> > > the
>> > > timing of navy bells, semi-automatic rifles, collisions between ships
>> > > etc.
>>
>> > > You're a total dickhead, b'luto.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>> > >I never said I passed the bar exam. I never even took it. Among your
>> > >other glaring deficiencies, you can't read.
>>
>> > It's you who cannot read, b'luto. I did not ask you that question.
>>
>> Here is the conversation verbatim:
>>
>> > > I see. Tell us all where you went to law school, passed the bar exam 
>> > > and
>> > > practiced law.
>> > You passed b'ollocks, b'luto
>> >I never said I passed it, which makes your comment completely
>> >irrelevant and calls into serious question your ability to comprehend
>> >written English.
>>
>> BBBWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
>> Two comments from two different people and you tell ME I cannot read.
>>
>> Get a grip you stupid, worn out old fool.
>>
>> >You are the one who claimed the quality of the cross examinations at
>> >Nuremberg was poor. That was after Gord proved you were lying when you
>> >said there were no such cross-examinations.
>>
>> I did NOT say there was NO cross examination, liar. I said it was
>> rudimentary at best, when it existed.- Hide quoted text -
>
>
>>Here is what you said:
>
>> "There
>>was little or no corss-examination at the Nuremberg "trials" was
>>there, b'luto."
>
>>You're lying again.
>
>Learn to read, b'luto.
>
>It's you who is lying. Again. Still.
>
>
You are correct, Ben. All allied documents, regardless of how clumsy a
forgery they might have been, were by allied definition "truth", and
could not be challenged or even examined by the defendants or their
lawyers.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:00 EST 2009
Article: 1979479 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Sderot, Israel - A town built on the ashes of an ethnically cleansed and defaced Palestinian village
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:32:00 -0600, Yosarian 
wrote:

>Geno4321 wrote:
>> That's the name of the game zionazi. More punch means less Jews.
>
>In this case a whole lot less Islamo-Nazi-facists, as they will rest in 
>small plots of land.

LOL

You have worked that terminology pretty much to death. Every minor
strongman who as ever challenged American control of the world has
been denounced as a "new Hitler". That whole rhetoric is losing its
punch.

I just laugh when I hear some ridiculous airhead babbling Bush isms
such as Islamofascist. It seems that you are an illiterate who isn't
even able to spell fascist accurately.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:01 EST 2009
Article: 1979481 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-Summary of Major Evidence of The Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:30:21 +0100, Zulu  wrote:

>Joe Bruno escribió:
>>  Major Evidence of the Holocaust
>> 
>> Nizkor Website
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.nizkor.org/
>> 
>> 
>> Testimony of Auschwitz Commandant Hoess
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest....
>> 
>> 
>> Statement by the American Historical Association:
>> 
>> 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/6bc3bf4f1df8fc08
>> 
>> 
>> The Avalon Project-Transcripts of the Nuremberg Trials
>> None of the defendants ever denied the exterminations
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm#proc
>> 
>> 
>> Where Does the Six Million Number Come From
>> 
>> 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/73663db2f3555bfe
>> 
>> 
>> NOTE: The 4 million number for Auschwitz was a estimate, based on
>> faulty assumptions, compiled by Soviet forensic scientists in a hurry
>> for Stalin. It is not included in the six million computation.
>> 
>> 
>> The Holocaust History Project
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
>> 
>> 
>> The Postwar SS escape Attempts:Behavioral Evidence of Guilt
>> It was notable that none of the German Soldiers, Sailors or Airman
>> Tried to Escape
>> The secret organization ODESSA who helped only SS men escape Justice;
>> 
>> 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.revisionism/msg/cb5bcd0558fd5ebd
>> 
>> 
>> Holocaust Denial on Trial at Emory University:
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.hdot.org/
>> 
>> 
>> Adolf Eichmann in His Own Words:He never denied the exterminations.
>> His sole defense was
>> that he was just following Orders:
>> 
>> 
>> http://remember.org/eichmann/ownwords.htm
>> 
>> 
>
>Please give us JUST ONE material proof that "gas chambers" and "homicidal gassing 
>operations" have taken place at Birkenau...

The whole holocaust™ story consists of a blizzard of paper recording
assorted hearsay.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:01 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:22:29 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> You are the fool. I ask about ashes at Auschwitz,
>
>Which were found,  over a very wide area.  Look up the Hydrokop tests.
>
>> and you babble on about mass graves (which wouldn't even be
>> required if the people were cremated) 
>
>Learn to read,  for Christ's sake.
>
>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>
>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>
>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>
>   
>
>   A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was 
>conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists,  headed by
>Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland,  who is the
>author of more than 130 papers on archaeology.  The team studied the site
>of the death camp,  drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core 
>samples.  The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA: 
>"BELZEC.  THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES. 
>Excavations 1997-1999".  ISBN 83-905590-6-4).  The study has recovered 
>human remains over a very large area,  to a depth of up to six meters. 
>The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.
>
The Poles continued to use most of the well known NS concentration
camps until about 1950 to murder the indigenous German population of
the lands they were fraudulently awarded after WW2. That mass graves
were found isn't really all that surprising, but the find proves
nothing about what happened at these locations DURING WW2. Polish
stupidity has destroyed most of the evidence. Mass graves only prove
that people were buried at that location. Unless you can also prove
who the people were, it sheds no light on your holocaust claims.

If the people were cremated, as you claim, then the residues couldn't
possibly occupy a volume of 21,000 m³. Most funeral ashes will
comfortably fit into a 1 litre container. Even if they absolutely
filled the container, each m³ contains 1000 L, so your graves would
accomodate a minimum of 21 million people, and more realistically 42
million people, or almost the entire loss of life during WW2. There
are not 42 million Jews in the world, and there never were.

I get tired of reading this kind of bullshit. Please spare me.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:01 EST 2009
Article: 1980125 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:36:48 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>"Zulu"  wrote
>>zip<
>
>Denial of the Holocaust and the genocide in Auschwitz
>
> Contributed by Dr. Franciszek Piper

 < material snipped for brevity >

Why would people find the musings of a "house historian" convincing?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:02 EST 2009
Article: 1980127 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:06:22 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:a7d2m4ha4qg1orhjgdolkcrb7fi90he2aq@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>>>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>>>>
>>>> That is an allied fabrication.
>>>
>>>How so?
>>>
>>>Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>>
>> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>>
>>>and the
>>>incorporation of the Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia in 1938.
>>
>> The Sudetenland had an almost exclusively German population that
>> should never have been assigned to Czechoslovakia in the first place.
>> There were a hell of a lot more Germans in the farce known as
>> Czechoslovakia than there were Slovaks, but their name doesn't even
>> appear in the title. Czechoslovakia was an arbitrary and capricious
>> Versailles-state.
>>
>>>He continued
>>>with the reduction of the Czech lands to a German  protectorate
>>
>> The Slovaks wanted out from under the Czechs in 1938, and they finally
>> achieved their independence from the Czech louts in 1990.
>>
>>>and the
>>>invasion of Poland in 1939 and the incorporation of some of its western
>>>parts into the Reich,
>>
>> That was a stolen property recovery. The western portions of Poland
>> were areas stolen from Germany, and actually still are.
>>
>>> the incorporation of Luxembourg and Alsace into the
>>>Reich in 1940,
>>
>> Alsace was ripped off from Germany by Louis XIV. It has pretty much
>> exclusively German town names and a German population. Luxembourg was
>> not annexed, but occupied.
>>
>>> and then, the ultimate project, the attack on the USSR on
>>>June 22, 1941, which produced at least the incorporation of the Baltic
>>>countries into the expanded Reich as Ostland, with Riga as its capital.
>>
>> Riga started out life as a German trading post, and Latvia became part
>> of Russia in 1721. It was the treaty of Brest-Litovsk that created the
>> independent country known as Latvia as a result of Russia's 1917
>> defeat by Germany.
>>
>>>Nazi policy in occupied Poland, the Baltic countries, Byelorussia, the
>>>Ukraine, and western Russia, populated, according to the Nazis by
>>>*Untermenchsen*, was exceptionally brutal and well documented by both
>>>victims and perpetrators, e.g.
>>>http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/gif/img001.gif.
>>>
>>>The concept of *Lebensraum* antedates Nazism. Indeed, it has been a part
>>>of the policy carried out by various German states and smaller political
>>>units since the Crusades. Roughly speaking, everything German east of the
>>>Elbe is the result of German eastern expansion.
>>
>> That analysis has been significantly outdated. Slavic is not an ethnic
>> group, but a language group. In AD800, there were no Slavs in Europe.
>> Germanic peoples covered all the terrain from the Ural mountains to
>> the Atlantic.  Slavs are a creation of the Roman Catholic Church
>> designating mostly Germanic people who were not RC as "slaves of the
>> devil", later Slavs. The Slavic language group is largely the creation
>> of the monks Cyrill and Methodius, and that relatively recently.
>>
>>>Every student of German
>>>history knows that the city names Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, and Chemnitz
>>>are of Slavic origin, that the Sorbs of south-eastern Germany (Bzk.
>>>Bautzen) are the last remnants of the Slavic population that was mostly
>>>killed off or forcibly absorbed into the Germans
>>
>> The Sorbs are speak a Slavic language, but they are not ethnically
>> different from the rest of the bunch in the area. There is no Slavic
>> type, but there actually IS a Nordic type.
>>
>> Your diatribe is junk history with no foundation in fact.
>>
>>>, that the Prussians were
>>>originally a Baltic tribe also killed off or forcibly absorbed,
>>
>> The Pruss were in fact Balts, but they were hardly killed off or
>> absorbed, except in self-serving modern Polish mythology.
>>
>>> with their
>>>name recycled, and that the Baltic German communities in Latvia and
>>>Estonia trace their roots to the medieval Knights of the Sword.
>>
>> Germans brought civilization to those areas. Riga and Talinn are
>> German foundations.
>>
>>>
>>>Hitler wrote extensively about *Labensraum* in *Mein Kampf*
>>
>> Bully for him, but that doesn't mean much. The guy was entitled to his
>> opinions, some of which make sense and some don't.
>
>However, being as how Hitler was also the supreme autocratic leader of 
>Germany, his opinions had the force of law.

LOL  This wasn't ancient Persia. There were definite limits to
Hitler's power.

>
>And they had this force even if they made no sense or condemned millions to 
>death.

Oh horseshit.

>
>And in that group of millions, I include the German soldiers Hitler sent 
>into the USSR just before winter, without permitting them winter gear - 
>soldiers he abandoned when the going got tough.

That too is a distortion. Hitler made a tactical error by not allowing
a retreat as the general staff had recommended. Since the campaign had
NOT been extensively planned, but had been a response to Stalin's
plans,  most things were ad hoc, and the winter gear was simply not
available in adequate amounts, fast enough. The general staff figured
that they could always advance again in the spring, but Hitler was
more atuned to "image" and "appearance" rather than substance. 

>
>> He also thought of
>> Jews as a race, which is totally ridiculous.
>
>Excuse me, but were you under the impression that National Socialist "racial 
>science" had a rational basis?

Do you read?

>
>> Jews are a diverse bunch
>> of people who subscribe to the religion known as Judaism.
>
>Please don't pretend that this is anything other than your opinion, which 
>has no relation to or bearing on the facts of the matter.

They are not a race, and never have been. Some sub-groups of Jews
could be considered "races", but not the category "Jews".

>
>The National Socialist racial ideology required that "Jewishness" is 
>hereditary, and was punishable by death.   This is why, for example, SS 
>applicants had to show that they had no Jewish ancestry going bac, IIRC, 
>three hundred years.
>
>In the National Socialist racial ideology, there was simply no way to get 
>out of Jewishness.
>
>You can continue to make up the stuff you post, but don't expect anyone to 
>take it seriously.

What are you babbling about? I don't give a flying shit what the
National Socialists may have thought. Jews are practitioners of
Judaism, and nothing more. Jews are like Americans, surface in all
shapes, sizes, and colours. They do not constitute a people, a nation,
or a race. Jews are a religious group. Lutherans are not a race, a
nation, or a people either, although some sub-groups among Lutherans
might be.

>
>-pk
>
>
>>
>>
>> , and it is
>>>also mentioned in the speeches given by him and other Nazi leaders. To
>>>call it an Allied fabrication is historically inaccurate. For more on the
>>>concept, see
>>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml.
>>
>> Sure, give me a self-serving British propaganda site as a reference.
>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:02 EST 2009
Article: 1980132 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:40:13 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> 
>> > the incorporation of Luxembourg and Alsace into the
>> >Reich in 1940,
>> 
>> Alsace was ripped off from Germany by Louis XIV. It has pretty much
>> exclusively German town names and a German population. Luxembourg was
>> not annexed, but occupied.
>
>Luxembourg was annexed and incorporated into the Moselgau in August, 1942.
>Luxembourgers became citizens of the Reich and were conscripted into the
>German military.

Luxemburg had been part of the first Empire. Some of the princes of
Luxemburg had held the title of German Emperor. There was no legal
entity called the "Third Reich", so it was incapable to annexing
territory. Any and all accessions to Germany would have to be approved
by the Reichsrat, and as far as I know, this had never happened. The
rest is just wikipedia babble, a notoriously unreliable source.

>
>Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg
>
>
>
>Luxembourg was invaded and occupied by Germany during the First World War,
>but was allowed to maintain its independence and political mechanisms. It
>was again invaded and subject to German occupation in the Second World War
>in 1940, and was formally annexed into the Third Reich in 1942.
>
>
>
>Source:http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/ftp.py?imt//tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>
>
>Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>Last-Modified: 1999/09/16
>
>          VERBATIM PROCEEDINGS OF THE INTERNATIONAL
>           MILITARY TRIBUNAL SITTING AT NUREMBERG,
>                           GERMANY
>                              
>                       FORTY-NINTH DAY
>                              
>                SATURDAY, 2ND FEBRUARY, 1946
>                              
>THE MARSHAL: May it please the Court, I desire to announce that the
>defendants Kaltenbrunner, Seyss-Inquart, and Streicher will be absent
>from this morning's session due to illness.
>
>M. FAURE: Gentlemen: I shall ask the Tribunal to be kind enough now to
>take the file which is entitled "Luxembourg."
>
>The Tribunal has already been informed of the essential elements of the
>situation concerning Luxembourg by the testimony of President Reuter,
>who was heard during yesterday's session. I will, therefore, be able to
>shorten my explanations of this file, but it is nevertheless
>indispensable that I should submit some documents to the Tribunal.
>
>The annexation of Luxembourg has quite a special character, in that it
>carried with it the total abolition of the sovereignty of this occupied
>country.
>
>It therefore concerns a case which corresponds to the hypothesis which
>we call "dabellatio" in classic law, that is to say, the cessation of
>hostilities by the disappearance of the body of public law of one of the
>belligerents.
>
>This total annexation of Luxembourg completes the proof that there was
>criminal premeditation on the part of the Reich against this State, to
>which it was bound by diplomatic treaties, notably the Treaty of London,
>of 11th May, 1867, and the Treaty of Arbitration and Conciliation of 2nd
>September, 1929. The Tribunal knows by the testimony of M. Reuter that
>these pledges were confirmed, first by a spontaneous diplomatic step
>taken in 1939 by M. von Radowitz, the Minister Plenipotentiary for
>Germany, and afterwards by a reassuring declaration a few days before
>the invasion, in circumstances which have already been explained to the
>Tribunal.
>
>In view of the fact that Luxembourg-unlike Alsace and Lorraine, which
>were French departments-I say, in view of the fact that Luxembourg was a
>State, the Germans, in order to carry out this defacto annexation, had
>to issue special regulations concerning the suppression of public
>institutions; and this they did. Two decrees of 2nd and 9th October,
>1940, announced, on the one hand, the dissolution of the Chamber of
>Deputies and the State Council, and, on the other hand, banned
>Luxembourg's political parties. These two decrees are submitted as
>exhibits under RF 801 and 802. I request the Tribunal only to take
>judicial notice of these documents, which are public documents.
>
>Moreover, on 26th August, 1940, a German decree had abolished the
>constitutional executive formula, according to which justice is rendered
>in the name of the sovereign. A formula according to which justice is
>rendered in the name of the people was substituted at that time for this
>executive formula.
>
>On 15th October, 1941, the formula was again modified in a more obvious
>way and became: "In the name of the German people."
>
>I shall now follow in my supplementary explanation the order of ideas
>which I adopted for Alsace and Lorraine, and naturally I shall dwell
>only on those circumstances which are peculiar to Luxembourg.
>
>                                                                [Page 2]
>
>As in the case of Alsace and Lorraine, the Germans attempted to
>extirpate the national sentiment of Luxembourg and to render impossible
>all minifestations of the traditional culture of this country. Thus, the
>decrees of 28th August, 1940, and of 23rd October, 1940, banned all
>associations of a cultural or educational nature.
>
>As in Alsace and Lorraine, the Germans imposed Germanisation of family
>names and Christian names. This is clear from a decree of 31st January,
>1941, concerning the change of Christian names and family names in
>Luxembourg, Exhibit RF 803. I point out in passing that the wearing of a
>beret was also forbidden in Luxembourg, by decree of 14th February,
>1941.
>
>At the same time as they did away with national institutions, the
>Germans set up, according to their custom, their own administration and
>appointed a Gauleiter in the person of Gustay Simon, the former
>Gauleiter of Koblenz-Trier.
>
>From the administrative point of view, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg was
>administered as a "Bezirk" (district) of the Chief of the Civilian
>Administrative Service, but by the German Administrative Service. From
>the point of view of the National Socialist Party, it was officially
>joined to the Reich, as a dependency of the Mosel Gau.
>
>I shall not dwell on the introduction of German civilian and penal
>institutions, which were introduced in the same way as in Alsace and
>Lorraine. Sufficient proof of this must be considered to have been given
>by the submission of the official report of the Government of the Grand
>Duchy.
>
>As regards nationality and conscription, we also notice a parallel
>between the provisions which concern Luxembourg and those which concern
>other annexed countries.
>
>On 30th August, 1942, two decrees were promulgated. It must be pointed
>out that these two decrees, the one concerning nationality and the other
>military service, bear the same date.
>
>The decree concerning military service is submitted as Exhibit RF 804
>and the decree concerning nationality is submitted as Exhibit RF 805.
>The legislation concerning nationality includes, moreover, a provision
>which is peculiar to Luxembourg, although it is in conformity with the
>general spirit of German legislation concerning nationality in annexed
>countries.
>
>The Germans had created in Luxembourg various organisations of the Nazi
>type, of which the main one was the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung" (German
>Movement), and here is the special circumstance which I wish to point
>out. The decree concerning nationality, of 30th August, 1942, grants
>German nationality to persons who gave their adherence to this
>association, the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung," but this nationality could be
>revoked. This is shown in the last paragraph of the title of this
>decree. In fact, the conferring of nationality in this special case was
>valid for two years only. It was provisional.
>
>At the same time as the Nazis were establishing conscription, they made
>it compulsory for all young Luxembourgers to serve in the pre-military
>formations of the Hitler Youth. This is laid down in a decree of 25th
>August, 1942, concerning the Hitler Youth camps, which is Exhibit RF
>806. Just as in Alsace and Lorraine, compulsory labour was imposed in
>Luxembourg, not only for men, but also for women, and also for work of
>military importance. These provisions are found in three decrees; the
>decree of 23rd May, 1941, the decree of 10th February, 1943, and the
>decree of 12th February, 1943. These last two decrees are introduced as
>Exhibits RF 807 and 808.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 
>> > and then, the ultimate project, the attack on the USSR on
>> >June 22, 1941, which produced at least the incorporation of the Baltic
>> >countries into the expanded Reich as Ostland, with Riga as its capital.
>> 
>> Riga started out life as a German trading post, and Latvia became part
>> of Russia in 1721. It was the treaty of Brest-Litovsk that created the
>> independent country known as Latvia as a result of Russia's 1917
>> defeat by Germany.
>> 
>> >Nazi policy in occupied Poland, the Baltic countries, Byelorussia, the
>> >Ukraine, and western Russia, populated, according to the Nazis by
>> >*Untermenchsen*, was exceptionally brutal and well documented by both
>> >victims and perpetrators, e.g.
>> >http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/gif/img001.gif.
>> >
>> >The concept of *Lebensraum* antedates Nazism. Indeed, it has been a part
>> >of the policy carried out by various German states and smaller political
>> >units since the Crusades. Roughly speaking, everything German east of the
>> >Elbe is the result of German eastern expansion.
>> 
>> That analysis has been significantly outdated. Slavic is not an ethnic
>> group, but a language group. 
>
>So is Germanic.
>
>> In AD800, there were no Slavs in Europe.
>
>There were certainly peoples who spoke Slavic languages.
>
>> Germanic peoples covered all the terrain from the Ural mountains to
>> the Atlantic.  
>
>Nonsense. These areas were inhabited by people speaking Slavic, Baltic,
>and Finno-Ugric languages. The Germanic peoples are relative latecomers to
>these areas, the first ones being the Goths, and related tribes such as
>the Gepids, Vandals, and Langobardians who expanded southward (from their
>homeland in eastern Sweden), eastward, and westward during the first
>post-Christian millennia, replacing or coexisting with and often
>subjugating Celtic, Roman, Baltic, Slavic, Finno-Ugric, and Turkic
>populations. The Goths and related East Germanic tribes, never numerous,
>were virtually extinct by the year 1000 AD. The Varangians (Vikings) were
>also involved in eastern expansion, and they have left their genetic
>imprint on the peoples of north-western Russia and Ukraine.
>
>> Slavs are a creation of the Roman Catholic Church
>> designating mostly Germanic people who were not RC as "slaves of the
>> devil", later Slavs. The Slavic language group is largely the creation
>> of the monks Cyrill and Methodius, and that relatively recently.
>
>More nonsense. Cyrill and Methodius invented a system for writing the
>already highly developed Slavic language variously known as Old Burlgarian
>or Old Church Slavonic. This language most certainly did not appear out of
>nowhere. Cyrill and Methodius also worked in Moravia, among peoples
>speaking a different Slavic language, the ancestor of modern Czech and
>Slovak. The Baltic and Slavic languages evidently split during the first
>pre-Chritian millennium, but they have remained in close contact,
>continuously cross-fertilizing each other.
> 
>> >Every student of German
>> >history knows that the city names Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, and Chemnitz
>> >are of Slavic origin, that the Sorbs of south-eastern Germany (Bzk.
>> >Bautzen) are the last remnants of the Slavic population that was mostly
>> >killed off or forcibly absorbed into the Germans
>> 
>> The Sorbs are speak a Slavic language, but they are not ethnically
>> different from the rest of the bunch in the area. There is no Slavic
>> type, but there actually IS a Nordic type.
>
>That is a matter of opinion and an artefact of classification. Nordic or
>Scandinavian populations have genetic links to German, Dutch, and Flemish
>populations in the southern and western part of the region, and to Sámi,
>Finnic, Baltic, and Slavic populations in the northern and eastern part.
>The northern parts of Norway and Sweden still have sizeable Sámi and
>Finnish-speaking minorities.
>> 
>> Your diatribe is junk history with no foundation in fact.
>
>Like your claim that Luxembourg was not annexed by Nazi Germany or that
>the Slavic language group is largely a relatively recent creation of the
>monks Cyrill and Methodius?
>
>> >, that the Prussians were
>> >originally a Baltic tribe also killed off or forcibly absorbed,
>> 
>> The Pruss were in fact Balts, but they were hardly killed off or
>> absorbed, except in self-serving modern Polish mythology.
>
>They were overwhelmed and marginalized by and assimilated into
>German-speaking colonists, in addtion to which they were decimated by
>plague and famine.
>
>> > with their
>> >name recycled, and that the Baltic German communities in Latvia and
>> >Estonia trace their roots to the medieval Knights of the Sword. 
>> 
>> Germans brought civilization to those areas. 
>
>That's what olonists and crusader always say...
>
>> Riga and Talinn are German foundations.
>
>Except that Tallinn [sic] was originally an Estonian settlement that was
>captured by the Danes in 1219: Tallinn < taani 'Danish' + linn(a)
>'city/castle'.
>
>> >Hitler wrote extensively about *Labensraum* in *Mein Kampf*
>> 
>> Bully for him, but that doesn't mean much. 
>
>It meant quite a lot for the peoples of Europe who were victimized by
>German expansionist policies between 1938 and 1945.
>
>> The guy was entitled to his
>> opinions, some of which make sense and some don't. He also thought of
>> Jews as a race, which is totally ridiculous. Jews are a diverse bunch
>> of people who subscribe to the religion known as Judaism.
>> 
>> 
>> , and it is
>> >also mentioned in the speeches given by him and other Nazi leaders. To
>> >call it an Allied fabrication is historically inaccurate. For more on the
>> >concept, see
>> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml.
>> 
>> Sure, give me a self-serving British propaganda site as a reference.
>
>Respond to the message, not the messenger.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:03 EST 2009
Article: 1980136 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:36:44 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>> >>  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>> >> 
>> >> That is an allied fabrication. 
>> >
>> >How so?
>> >
>> >Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>> 
>> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>
>No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.

Yes, Gord, it had been expelled from the Germanic confederation in
1866 against its will. Post WW1, it expressed the wish to rejoin the
federation, but this wish was thwarted by the idiots who gave us
Versailles and its consequences: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, the Yugoslav
war, and numerous other European disasters. All the dead of the
Yugoslav civil war can still be counted as victims of Versailles, as
can all the deaths of WW2.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:04 EST 2009
Article: 1980139 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:44:13 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:4tg5m4dp64ge30couc90qpsm7rkfailg3f@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>
>>> >In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>>> >>
>>> >> That is an allied fabrication.
>>> >
>>> >How so?
>>> >
>>> >Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>>>
>>> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>>> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>>> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>>
>> No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.
>
>I seem to recall hearing something in grade school about a couple of 
>empires,  named after a country that sounded a lot like "Austria"..... hmmm, 
>what *were* those names?

Austria only became separate in 1866. It was a multi-ethnic state with
a German core, called Deutsch-Österreich. It was kicked out of the
Germanic confederation because it refused to divest itself of its
non-German holdings, such as Hungary and the Balkans. After WW1, when
the non-Germanic portions of Austria-Hungary were lost,
Deutsch-Österreich wanted to rejoin the Germanic confederation, but
was prevented from doing so by the same idiots who gave the world
Versailles.

>
>Must have been somewhere else.   Another planet, perhaps?

Are you really that stupid, Patrick, or do you just like to create
that image?

>
>-pk
>
>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:04 EST 2009
Article: 1980140 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:06:00 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 05/01/09"
 wrote:

>Gord McFee  wrote in 
>news:4tg5m4dp64ge30couc90qpsm7rkfailg3f@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in
>> , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>>> 
>>> >In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>>> >> 
>>> >> That is an allied fabrication. 
>>> >
>>> >How so?
>>> >
>>> >Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>>> 
>>> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>>> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>>> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>> 
>> No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.
>> 
>
>Strange that he's never heard of Austro-Hungary

There was never any such place. The state was called
Österreich-Ungarn, or Austria-Hungary in English. When you exhibit
such gross ignorance of European history, it makes it hard to take you
seriously when you babble about the alleged events of WW2.

Austria was settled by people from Bavaria in the sixth century, so
they are ethnically identical to Bavarians, and are also
German-speaking.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:04 EST 2009
Article: 1980144 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:58:49 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "I'll
>Always Be 05/01/09"  wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee  wrote in 
>> news:4tg5m4dp64ge30couc90qpsm7rkfailg3f@4ax.com:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in
>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>>
>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> That is an allied fabrication. 
>> >> >
>> >> >How so?
>> >> >
>> >> >Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>> >> 
>> >> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>> >> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>> >> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>> > 
>> > No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.
>> > 
>> 
>> Strange that he's never heard of Austro-Hungary
>
>Actually, Herr von Ebersdorf, works with a nebulous concept of Germany.

LOL  Hardly.

>When we were discussing the "geography lesson" included im the first
>stanza of the German national anthem, "von der Maas bis an die Memel, von
>der Etsch bis an den Belt", he stated that this refers to Germany as a
>linguisic and culture space, not as a country. In a manner of speaking, I
>understand his perspective: Germany as a political state only emerged from
>hundreds of Lichtenstein-like principalities and statelets under Otto von
>Bismarck in 1871.

That circumstance was a consequence of the Thirty Years War. There was
the First Empire from AD768 until AD1806.

>This state united people of various ethnicities who had
>had a pan-German identity forced onto their older and stronger Holsteiner,
>Prussian, Frankish, Bavarian, Saxon, Swabian, Frisian, etc. local
>identities.

They were hardly different ethnicities. They already collectively
called themselves "Deutsch" before the end of the ninth century.

>Indeed, it was only some two centuries before that High German
>(Hochdeutsch) had been forced on the northern part of the country where
>Low German (Plattdeutsch) and Frisian, different languages, not just sets
>of dialects, had been current.

Plattdeutsch, Frisian, Danish, English, Swedish, etc. are all Germanic
languages, but Hochdeutsch had been in use for many centuries as the
common language of the whole Empire. People spoke their local
languages, and Hochdeutsch. Nobody was "forced" to do anything.

>For a number geopolitical reasons,
>Bismarck's German state did not include German-speaking Luxembourg or
>Liechtenstein, the German-speaking parts of France, the multilingual dual
>monarchy Austria-Hungary, or multilingual but German-speaking majority
>Switzerland.

I see, Germans are expected to accept the results of French
imperialism and simply bow to the whims of foreigners who detached
portions of the Empire during periods of weakness. What a bunch of
hypocrites.

>The objective of German supernationalists such as Adolf Hitler was to make
>the German state congruent with the space where German culture and
>identity dominated, and then direct the energies of this densely populated
>superstate to capturing and depopulating territory, *Lebensraum*, from the
>Poles, Russians, Byelorussians, and Ukrainians, all of them regarded by
>the Germans as racially and culturally inferior to them. Germany, which
>became an empire too late to be able to grab choice overseas colonies,
>would build its empire in eastern Europe. This is not an "allied
>fabrication" but rather a basic fact of post-Bismarckian German
>nationalism.
>
>Hitler, a citizen of Austria-Hungary by birth, latched on to this
>pan-German nationalism at an early age, emigrating to Germany, fighting in
>the German army, writing a book dealing with the objectives of German
>nationalism, and taking German citizenship. Austria was not a separate
>state because of Versailles, but rather Austria-Hungary was divided up
>along linguistic lines because of Versailles, with the German-speaking
>part becoming Austria and Vienna an imperial capital without an empire.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman

This is the typical American historical babble with which they have
made an ungodly mess wherever they have gone, most recently
Afghanistan and Iraq. Americans rushed into all these areas with
half-baked notions about local conditions and totally fraudulent
pictures of the local history, similar to the ones being spouted here
about Germany by Eugene. I meet American jackasses all the time who
try to explain Canada to me, and how Canadian society works. They are
generally 100% wrong, but they are so pompous and self-important that
they are beyond instruction. They are as ignorant there as they tend
to be of Germany, and they are so out of it that they don't even
realize that they are out of it.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:05 EST 2009
Article: 1980146 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:44:55 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:54 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:03:55 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:08:28 -0500, in
>> >, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:04:08 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>> >
>> >[...]
>> >
>> >> > Its
>> >> >only chance of winning the war would have been for the USSR to be as
>> >> >successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the roughly eight weeks between
>> >> >June 22 and mid-August, when north-western Russia has the first night
>> >> >frosts.
>> >> 
>> >> That is nonsense. The USSR had three times the population of Germany,
>> >> whereas Poland was a relative light-weight at half the population of
>> >> Germany. The USSR was attacked because the German authorities believed
>> >> that there was no other choice. The foreign minister, von Ribbentrop
>> >> returned from a meeting with his Soviet counterpart, Molotov,
>> >> convinced that the USSR was planning an invasion of Germany for July.
>> >> The German invasion in June was an attempt to pre-empt that
>> >> possibility.
>> >
>> >That is the propaganda reason given by the German government at the
>> >time, but there is not a shred of evidence to support it, since it was
>> >made up.
>> 
>> The bulk of the Soviet forces were captured within a few kilometres of
>> the demarcation line through Poland. That is not a defensive position.
>> They were simply surprised in the process of putting together an
>> invasion. The German military authorities had actually expected the
>> invasion to be tougher, and it would have been, had the USSR been in a
>> classical defensive position.
>
>I would suggest the results of the invasion indicate that it was very
>tough indeed,

Sure, conditions were so tough that they covered the more than 1,000
km from the Polish boundary to Moscow before the onset of winter. You
like your history trivial and superficial, which is understandable,
given your propaganda needs.


> but I digress.  However, where is your evidence that the
>Soviet troops were concentrated on the demarcation line (and why would
>that have been surprising anyway)?

It wasn't surprising, but it is not a defensive position. It is
madness as a defensive position because it is eary to punch through
that sort of deployment, and the German forces did exactly that.

> 
>> > The first plans to invade the Soviet Union were issued in
>> >December 1940 - yes, 1940.
>> 
>> The British had been planning to attack Germany as early as 1930, or
>> do you think that fleets of 4-engined holocaust bombers can be created
>> in a few milliseconds after war breaks out.
>
>Where are the British plans?  I showed you the German plans.
>
>[...]


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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 21:47:30 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:32:51 +1000, in
><18Cdnc354MAAKvzUnZ2dnUVZ_vKdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:frq1m4h0uqg7njp1omauqs0f9jhshvqhuk@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:08:28 -0500, in
>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:04:08 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> >> > Its
>> >> >only chance of winning the war would have been for the USSR to be as
>> >> >successfully blitzed as Poland was, during the roughly eight weeks 
>> >> >between
>> >> >June 22 and mid-August, when north-western Russia has the first night
>> >> >frosts.
>> >>
>> >> That is nonsense. The USSR had three times the population of Germany,
>> >> whereas Poland was a relative light-weight at half the population of
>> >> Germany. The USSR was attacked because the German authorities believed
>> >> that there was no other choice. The foreign minister, von Ribbentrop
>> >> returned from a meeting with his Soviet counterpart, Molotov,
>> >> convinced that the USSR was planning an invasion of Germany for July.
>> >> The German invasion in June was an attempt to pre-empt that
>> >> possibility.
>> >
>> > That is the propaganda reason given by the German government at the
>> > time, but there is not a shred of evidence to support it, since it was
>> > made up.
>> 
>> So it could become part of the Holocaust(tm) dogma, huh?
>
>It has nothing to do with the Holocaust.  Try to read what you are
>replying to for once.

Sorry Gord, but your whole fabric of superfical history, lies, and
distortions about other things, make me totally sceptical of your
holocaust claims.

If your holocaust claims have the same validity as your German
history, then your stories have no validity at all.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:05 EST 2009
Article: 1980150 of alt.revisionism
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:36:20 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> 
>> > the incorporation of Luxembourg and Alsace into the
>> >Reich in 1940,
>> 
>> Alsace was ripped off from Germany by Louis XIV. It has pretty much
>> exclusively German town names and a German population. Luxembourg was
>> not annexed, but occupied.
>
>Luxembourg was annexed and incorporated into the Moselgau in August, 1942.
>Luxembourgers became citizens of the Reich and were conscripted into the
>German military.
>
>Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg
>
>
>
>Luxembourg was invaded and occupied by Germany during the First World War,
>but was allowed to maintain its independence and political mechanisms. It
>was again invaded and subject to German occupation in the Second World War
>in 1940, and was formally annexed into the Third Reich in 1942.
>
>
>
>Source:http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/ftp.py?imt//tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>
>
>Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>Last-Modified: 1999/09/16
>
>          VERBATIM PROCEEDINGS OF THE INTERNATIONAL
>           MILITARY TRIBUNAL SITTING AT NUREMBERG,
>                           GERMANY
>                              
>                       FORTY-NINTH DAY
>                              
>                SATURDAY, 2ND FEBRUARY, 1946
>                              
>THE MARSHAL: May it please the Court, I desire to announce that the
>defendants Kaltenbrunner, Seyss-Inquart, and Streicher will be absent
>from this morning's session due to illness.
>
>M. FAURE: Gentlemen: I shall ask the Tribunal to be kind enough now to
>take the file which is entitled "Luxembourg."
>
>The Tribunal has already been informed of the essential elements of the
>situation concerning Luxembourg by the testimony of President Reuter,
>who was heard during yesterday's session. I will, therefore, be able to
>shorten my explanations of this file, but it is nevertheless
>indispensable that I should submit some documents to the Tribunal.
>
>The annexation of Luxembourg has quite a special character, in that it
>carried with it the total abolition of the sovereignty of this occupied
>country.
>
>It therefore concerns a case which corresponds to the hypothesis which
>we call "dabellatio" in classic law, that is to say, the cessation of
>hostilities by the disappearance of the body of public law of one of the
>belligerents.
>
>This total annexation of Luxembourg completes the proof that there was
>criminal premeditation on the part of the Reich against this State, to
>which it was bound by diplomatic treaties, notably the Treaty of London,
>of 11th May, 1867, and the Treaty of Arbitration and Conciliation of 2nd
>September, 1929. The Tribunal knows by the testimony of M. Reuter that
>these pledges were confirmed, first by a spontaneous diplomatic step
>taken in 1939 by M. von Radowitz, the Minister Plenipotentiary for
>Germany, and afterwards by a reassuring declaration a few days before
>the invasion, in circumstances which have already been explained to the
>Tribunal.
>
>
>
>From the administrative point of view, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg was
>administered as a "Bezirk" (district) of the Chief of the Civilian
>Administrative Service, but by the German Administrative Service. From
>the point of view of the National Socialist Party, it was officially
>joined to the Reich, as a dependency of the Mosel Gau.
>
>I shall not dwell on the introduction of German civilian and penal
>institutions, which were introduced in the same way as in Alsace and
>Lorraine. Sufficient proof of this must be considered to have been given
>by the submission of the official report of the Government of the Grand
>Duchy.
>
>As regards nationality and conscription, we also notice a parallel
>between the provisions which concern Luxembourg and those which concern
>other annexed countries.
>
>On 30th August, 1942, two decrees were promulgated. It must be pointed
>out that these two decrees, the one concerning nationality and the other
>military service, bear the same date.
>
>The decree concerning military service is submitted as Exhibit RF 804
>and the decree concerning nationality is submitted as Exhibit RF 805.
>The legislation concerning nationality includes, moreover, a provision
>which is peculiar to Luxembourg, although it is in conformity with the
>general spirit of German legislation concerning nationality in annexed
>countries.
>
>The Germans had created in Luxembourg various organisations of the Nazi
>type, of which the main one was the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung" (German
>Movement), and here is the special circumstance which I wish to point
>out. The decree concerning nationality, of 30th August, 1942, grants
>German nationality to persons who gave their adherence to this
>association, the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung," but this nationality could be
>revoked. This is shown in the last paragraph of the title of this
>decree. In fact, the conferring of nationality in this special case was
>valid for two years only. It was provisional.
>
>At the same time as the Nazis were establishing conscription, they made
>it compulsory for all young Luxembourgers to serve in the pre-military
>formations of the Hitler Youth. This is laid down in a decree of 25th
>August, 1942, concerning the Hitler Youth camps, which is Exhibit RF
>806. Just as in Alsace and Lorraine, compulsory labour was imposed in
>Luxembourg, not only for men, but also for women, and also for work of
>military importance. These provisions are found in three decrees; the
>decree of 23rd May, 1941, the decree of 10th February, 1943, and the
>decree of 12th February, 1943. These last two decrees are introduced as
>Exhibits RF 807 and 808.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> 
>> > and then, the ultimate project, the attack on the USSR on
>> >June 22, 1941, which produced at least the incorporation of the Baltic
>> >countries into the expanded Reich as Ostland, with Riga as its capital.
>> 
>> Riga started out life as a German trading post, and Latvia became part
>> of Russia in 1721. It was the treaty of Brest-Litovsk that created the
>> independent country known as Latvia as a result of Russia's 1917
>> defeat by Germany.
>> 
>> >Nazi policy in occupied Poland, the Baltic countries, Byelorussia, the
>> >Ukraine, and western Russia, populated, according to the Nazis by
>> >*Untermenchsen*, was exceptionally brutal and well documented by both
>> >victims and perpetrators, e.g.
>> >http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/gif/img001.gif.
>> >
>> >The concept of *Lebensraum* antedates Nazism. Indeed, it has been a part
>> >of the policy carried out by various German states and smaller political
>> >units since the Crusades. Roughly speaking, everything German east of the
>> >Elbe is the result of German eastern expansion.
>> 
>> That analysis has been significantly outdated. Slavic is not an ethnic
>> group, but a language group. 
>
>So is Germanic.
>
>> In AD800, there were no Slavs in Europe.
>
>There were certainly peoples who spoke Slavic languages.

Sure, Eugene, the earliest examples of what is known is "church
slavonic", the pre-cursor of modern slavic languages was around 1400.
Your American "history" claims that people in Europe spoke slavic
languages more than six hundred years before any slavic languages
surfaced. That is one of the reasons that for me, American is
synonymous with garbage. What Americans don't know or understand would
fill entire libraries.


>
>> Germanic peoples covered all the terrain from the Ural mountains to
>> the Atlantic.  
>
>Nonsense. These areas were inhabited by people speaking Slavic, Baltic,
>and Finno-Ugric languages. The Germanic peoples are relative latecomers to
>these areas, the first ones being the Goths, and related tribes such as
>the Gepids, Vandals, and Langobardians who expanded southward (from their
>homeland in eastern Sweden), eastward, and westward during the first
>post-Christian millennia, replacing or coexisting with and often
>subjugating Celtic, Roman, Basque, Baltic, Slavic, Finno-Ugric, and Turkic
>populations. The Goths and related East Germanic tribes, never numerous,
>were virtually extinct by the year 1000 AD. The Varangians (Vikings) were
>also involved in eastern expansion, and they have left their genetic
>imprint on the peoples of north-western Russia and Ukraine.
>
>> Slavs are a creation of the Roman Catholic Church
>> designating mostly Germanic people who were not RC as "slaves of the
>> devil", later Slavs. The Slavic language group is largely the creation
>> of the monks Cyrill and Methodius, and that relatively recently.
>
>More nonsense. Cyrill and Methodius invented a system for writing the
>already highly developed Slavic language variously known as Old Bulgarian
>or Old Church Slavonic. This language most certainly did not appear out of
>nowhere, but was one of several localized continuations of
>Proto-Indo-European via Proto-Baltic-Slavic and Proto-Slavic. Cyrill and
>Methodius also worked in Moravia, among peoples speaking a different
>Slavic language, the ancestor of modern Czech and Slovak. The Baltic and
>Slavic languages evidently split during the first pre-Christian
>millennium, but they have remained in close contact,
>continuously cross-fertilizing each other.
> 
>> >Every student of German
>> >history knows that the city names Berlin, Leipzig, Dresden, and Chemnitz
>> >are of Slavic origin, that the Sorbs of south-eastern Germany (Bzk.
>> >Bautzen) are the last remnants of the Slavic population that was mostly
>> >killed off or forcibly absorbed into the Germans
>> 
>> The Sorbs are speak a Slavic language, but they are not ethnically
>> different from the rest of the bunch in the area. There is no Slavic
>> type, but there actually IS a Nordic type.
>
>That is a matter of opinion and an artefact of classification. Nordic or
>Scandinavian populations have genetic links to German, Dutch, and Flemish
>populations in the southern and western part of the region, and to Sámi,
>Finnic, Baltic, and Slavic populations in the northern and eastern part.
>The northern parts of Norway and Sweden still have sizeable Sámi and
>Finnish-speaking minorities. Within Scandinavia there is a core
>dolichocephalic, long-limbed, blue-eyed type surrounded in the north and
>east by a marginal, and evidently older and thus more indigenous,
>brachycephalic, short-limbed gray-eyed type.
>> 
>> Your diatribe is junk history with no foundation in fact.
>
>Like your easily refuted claims that Luxembourg was not annexed by Nazi
>Germany or that the Slavic language group is largely a relatively recent
>creation of the
>monks Cyrill and Methodius?
>
>> >, that the Prussians were
>> >originally a Baltic tribe also killed off or forcibly absorbed,
>> 
>> The Pruss were in fact Balts, but they were hardly killed off or
>> absorbed, except in self-serving modern Polish mythology.
>
>They were overwhelmed and marginalized by and assimilated into
>German-speaking colonists, in addition to which they were decimated by
>plague and famine.
>
>> > with their
>> >name recycled, and that the Baltic German communities in Latvia and
>> >Estonia trace their roots to the medieval Knights of the Sword. 
>> 
>> Germans brought civilization to those areas. 
>
>That's what colonists and crusaders always say...
>
>> Riga and Talinn are German foundations.
>
>Except that Tallinn [sic] was originally an Estonian settlement that was
>captured by the Danes in 1219: Tallinn < taani 'Danish' + linn(a)
>'city/castle'.
>
>> >Hitler wrote extensively about *Lebensraum* in *Mein Kampf*
>> 
>> Bully for him, but that doesn't mean much. 
>
>It meant quite a lot for the peoples of Europe who were victimized by
>German expansionist policies between 1938 and 1945.
>
>> The guy was entitled to his
>> opinions, some of which make sense and some don't. He also thought of
>> Jews as a race, which is totally ridiculous. Jews are a diverse bunch
>> of people who subscribe to the religion known as Judaism.
>
>The Nazis gave considerable thought to defining the essence of Judaism,
>eventually coming to the conclusion that it is a four-tiered entity
>involving religion, race, social contacts, and behavior/appearance. This
>issue is discussed in considerable detail in the Wannsee Conference
>Protocol.
> 
>> , and it is
>> >also mentioned in the speeches given by him and other Nazi leaders. To
>> >call it an Allied fabrication is historically inaccurate. For more on the
>> >concept, see
>> >http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwtwo/hitler_lebensraum_01.shtml.
>> 
>> Sure, give me a self-serving British propaganda site as a reference.
>
>Respond to the message, not the messenger.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:06 EST 2009
Article: 1980157 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:30:41 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/5/2009 2:54 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:hi52m49carevpjs7jthop4gfaqg60i8eql@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:52:08 +1000, in
>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> news:dhvvl4p0sfg693atk394kq5bq750ud28cq@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:06:30 +1000, in
>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:r8htl45886343auvl6f0iggg7kt1v0efru@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:37:33 +1000, in
>>>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:x9e7l.38087$kG.32288@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>> On 1/1/2009 7:35 PM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:FbOdnQUSxpVszMDUnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@supernews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> forest.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz
>>>>>>>>>>>>> concentarion camp as if its relevance or meaning were in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stones. It was there and it is there. Its purpose was to kill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jews and soviet prisoners of war and other unwanted people by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing with cyanide.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is very well witnessed by survivors and the participants
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> with this questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny
>>>>>>>>>>>>> millions of bricks that represent all those people that died
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>>>>>>>>>>>> Auschwitz.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>>>>>>>>>> That's right. The other million or so (or whatever number the
>>>>>>>>>> industry has declared now) were offed as they stepped from the
>>>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So much for German efficiency and their anal record keeping
>>>>>>>>>> fixations.
>>>>>>>>> Quite efficient actually.  Kill them and don't waste paper 
>>>>>>>>> keeping
>>>>>>>>> statistics, since they already existed anyway.
>>>>>>>> Oh dear. How you twist and dodge.
>>>>>>> Can't address the issue, eh?
>>>>>> Not at all. There is no issue to address.
>>>>> There is if you try.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why make records when the records
>>>>>>> already existed?  What is "twisting and dodging" about that?
>>>>>> Where are these "records?"
>>>>> The transportation records.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do you people accept the yid lie that people were offed 
>>>>>> immediately
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> got of a trains etc with NO evidence to support it.
>>>>> There is evidence to support it, most of it from the Germans.
>>>> There is NO verifiable evidence to support it at all. NONE.
> >>
>>> You are going to have to define your terms if you expect to discuss
>>> this seriously.
>> 
>> How much more specific can I be?
>
>Pay attention.
>
>> There is NO verifiable evidence to support your nonsense.
>
>OK.  How do you define (1) verifiable and (2) evidence.

LOL, Gord. You sound like a religious fundamentalist spouting his
beliefs as "truth". Objectively, the glorious Kingdoms of David and
Solomon never existed, or if it did, oddly nobody else noticed their
existence. The exodus from Egypt never happened, if only because
nobody noticed it and the destination area was still Egyptian
controlled territory. The Roman scattering of the Jews didn't happen.
These are all religious myths. I regard the holocaust stories much
like Jewish religious lore about the 4 BILLION Jews killed in an
obscure town in the Roman empire. 

We have religious freedom in Canada, Gord, so you are free to believe
whatever you please. I am NOT required, however, to accept the tenets
or foundation beliefs of your cult, any more than I am obliged to
forego the wearing of short-sleeved shirts because some groups of
Muslims might find them obscene.

>
>Also, "nonsense" is too imprecise a word.
>
>>>> Nor are there photographs of gas chambers or anything associated with 
>>>> them
>>>> or their use. NOTHING. There are photographs of every other aspect of 
>>>> life
>>>> in the camps but not that tiny wee element. Don't you find that fact 
>>>> alone
>>>> is cause to question?
> >>
>>> No.
>> 
>> Do you know what you've just admitted?
>
>Please tell me.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:07 EST 2009
Article: 1980159 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:58:41 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:1o92m4hsmc788u0lghrqk9a4f7uigmln1m@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:43:59 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>> news:V6mdnT0mCv00u_3UnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>> > news:8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com...
>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:25:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>> >>>news:0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com...
>>> >>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>>> >>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>>> >>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>>> >>>>>> > In article ,
>>> >>>>>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>>> >>>>>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>>>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>>> >>>>>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> [...]
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out 
>>> >>>>>> >> > > that
>>> >>>>>> >> > > we
>>> >>>>>> >> > > do in
>>> >>>>>> >> > > fact
>>> >>>>>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the 
>>> >>>>>> >> > > camps
>>> >>>>>> >> > > and
>>> >>>>>> >> > > were
>>> >>>>>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > NO you don't.
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>>> >>>>>> >> >
>>> >>>>>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>>> >>>>>> >>
>>> >>>>>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no
>>> >>>>>> >> rebuttal.
>>> >>>>>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.
>>> >>>>>> >> It's
>>> >>>>>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>>> >>>>>> >
>>> >>>>>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>>> >>>>>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>>> >>>>>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>>> >>>>>children
>>> >>>>>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>>> >>>>>killed
>>> >>>>>at Auschwitz.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>>> >>>> other location.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>In which case there would be records of them leaving.
>>> >>
>>> >> Why would they record them leaving if they didn't bother with
>>> >> recording their arrival?
>>> >
>>> > Please pay attention.
>>> >
>>> > There *are* records of them arriving - the transport records.
>>>
>>> Right. Accepted.
>>>
>>> Now - how the hell can you, the little man who insists on evidence being
>>> provided to prove the sun will be visible tomorrow (if it's said by a 
>>> goy)
>>> now tell us the arrivees were offed immediately without being able to
>>> provide a shred of evidence, in even the most remote way, that this
>>> happened?
>>
>> No one says that this means they were killed "immediately".  It means
>> that they arrived at the camp and never left, and have never been seen
>> again.  That means they likely died.  *How* they died is established
>> using different evidence.
>
>It does not mean they died. That they died is ONE possibility.

Holocaustorians use the alleged gas chambers as the default
explanation for anybody whose disappearance cannot be easily
explained. Various inept police departments have used similar
approaches to find scape-goats for various crimes, as a substitute for
competent police work. 

>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:07 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:49:40 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:58:41 +1000, in
><2K2dncHrn7IpIPzUnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:1o92m4hsmc788u0lghrqk9a4f7uigmln1m@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:43:59 +1000, in
>> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> news:V6mdnT0mCv00u_3UnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> > news:8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com...
>> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:25:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>news:0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com...
>> >> >>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>> >> >>>>  wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> >>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> >>>>>> > In article ,
>> >> >>>>>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> >>>>>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> >>>>>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> [...]
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out 
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > that
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > we
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > do in
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > fact
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the 
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > camps
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > and
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > were
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > NO you don't.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no
>> >> >>>>>> >> rebuttal.
>> >> >>>>>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.
>> >> >>>>>> >> It's
>> >> >>>>>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >> >>>>>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >> >>>>>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>> >> >>>>>children
>> >> >>>>>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>> >> >>>>>killed
>> >> >>>>>at Auschwitz.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> >>>> other location.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>In which case there would be records of them leaving.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would they record them leaving if they didn't bother with
>> >> >> recording their arrival?
>> >> >
>> >> > Please pay attention.
>> >> >
>> >> > There *are* records of them arriving - the transport records.
>> >>
>> >> Right. Accepted.
>> >>
>> >> Now - how the hell can you, the little man who insists on evidence being
>> >> provided to prove the sun will be visible tomorrow (if it's said by a 
>> >> goy)
>> >> now tell us the arrivees were offed immediately without being able to
>> >> provide a shred of evidence, in even the most remote way, that this
>> >> happened?
>> >
>> > No one says that this means they were killed "immediately".  It means
>> > that they arrived at the camp and never left, and have never been seen
>> > again.  That means they likely died.  *How* they died is established
>> > using different evidence.
>> 
>> It does not mean they died. That they died is ONE possibility.
>
>OK.  What are the others?

Obviously, their death is a possibility, but it wouldn't have had to
be at Auschwitz, nor would it have to have been by means of the
alleged gas chambers.

Just because somebody Jewish died during a war that killed almost
sixty million people, it does not follow that they were gassed. The
gassing is an article of faith among the holocaust devotees, but it is
hardly under the heading of proven fact. Your stories leave loads of
room for doubt.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:07 EST 2009
Article: 1980165 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:  <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>  <8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com>   <1o92m4hsmc788u0lghrqk9a4f7uigmln1m@4ax.com> <2K2dncHrn7IpIPzUnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com> 
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:10:07 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <2K2dncHrn7IpIPzUnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:1o92m4hsmc788u0lghrqk9a4f7uigmln1m@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:43:59 +1000, in
>> > , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> news:V6mdnT0mCv00u_3UnZ2dnUVZ_oninZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> > news:8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com...
>> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:25:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>news:0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com...
>> >> >>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>> >> >>>>  wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> >>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> >>>>>> > In article ,
>> >> >>>>>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> >>>>>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> >>>>>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> [...]
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out 
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > that
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > we
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > do in
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > fact
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the 
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > camps
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > and
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > were
>> >> >>>>>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > NO you don't.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >>>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >> >>>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no
>> >> >>>>>> >> rebuttal.
>> >> >>>>>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.
>> >> >>>>>> >> It's
>> >> >>>>>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >> >>>>>> >
>> >> >>>>>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >> >>>>>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >> >>>>>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>> >> >>>>>children
>> >> >>>>>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>> >> >>>>>killed
>> >> >>>>>at Auschwitz.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> >>>> other location.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>In which case there would be records of them leaving.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why would they record them leaving if they didn't bother with
>> >> >> recording their arrival?
>> >> >
>> >> > Please pay attention.
>> >> >
>> >> > There *are* records of them arriving - the transport records.
>> >>
>> >> Right. Accepted.
>> >>
>> >> Now - how the hell can you, the little man who insists on evidence being
>> >> provided to prove the sun will be visible tomorrow (if it's said by a 
>> >> goy)
>> >> now tell us the arrivees were offed immediately without being able to
>> >> provide a shred of evidence, in even the most remote way, that this
>> >> happened?
>> >
>> > No one says that this means they were killed "immediately".  It means
>> > that they arrived at the camp and never left, and have never been seen
>> > again.  That means they likely died.  *How* they died is established
>> > using different evidence.
>> 
>> It does not mean they died. That they died is ONE possibility.
>> 
>Then please explain where they are, or why so many thousands of children 
>"conveniently" died?

Are you saying that ALL the children deported from France vanished
without a trace? Anything I have read indicated that substantial
numbers of them returned home after the war.

>
>> 
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Gord McFee
>> > I'll write no line before its time
>> >
>> > Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> > http://www.holocaust-history.org


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:08 EST 2009
Article: 1980169 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:57:20 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <8qhvl4dtrvq35jdojjd6svhs314tfu7fic@4ax.com>,
> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:25:29 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>> >news:0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com...
>> >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >>>> > In article ,
>> >>>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >>>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >>>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >>>> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> [...]
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we 
>> >>>> >> > > do in
>> >>>> >> > > fact
>> >>>> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the camps 
>> >>>> >> > > and
>> >>>> >> > > were
>> >>>> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > NO you don't.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no rebuttal.
>> >>>> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.  It's
>> >>>> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >>>> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >>>> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >>>
>> >>>I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >>>
>> >>>You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of children
>> >>>arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were killed
>> >>>at Auschwitz.
>> >>
>> >> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> other location.
>> >
>> >In which case there would be records of them leaving.
>> 
>> Why would they record them leaving if they didn't bother with
>> recording their arrival?
>
>But they DID record it. They recorded the children getting on trains in 
>France and going to Auschwitz.

That is another diversion. The French children represent a relative
handful, whereas the holocaust story suggests huge masses were brought
by train in order to be immediately put to death. Why would you invest
in train rides for people you planned to kill. It would have been more
cost-efficient to do that without the train ride. The Poles had all
their victims walk, for example.

>
>
>> 
>> >
>> >> The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> >> unfounded supposition.
>> >
>> >If you belive that, then by all means, produce the transit records showing 
>> >that they went elsewhere.
>> 
>> There are few, if any, transit records showing their arrival. It is
>> all unfounded supposition. 
>
>Lie. They were recorded as boarding trains to Auschwitz. 
>
>>The basic holocaust™ paradigm is that
>> anybody in Europe whose fate is unknown died at Auschwitz. That is the
>> ultimate foundation of the myth and cult pushed by the holocaust™
>> industry.
>
>Thousands and thousands of people were transported to Auschwitz, by the 
>Nazis own records. Where are they?
>> 
>> >
>> >-pk
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>It proves Mr. Keenan's point, and demonstrates that you are not being
>> >>>honest.
>> >>>
>> >>>Hope that helps.
>> >>>
>> >>>Sara
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > -- 
>> >>>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> >>>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08 
>> >


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:08 EST 2009
Article: 1980170 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <5nu7m41jv66b1b79gj0cp5kpbb3d671eg8@4ax.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:26:34 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <4nrvl45reck36mobavdnkdf37cj95rh29r@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:32:11 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> 430,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to Auschwitz in the summer
>>> of 1944.  Since entire populations were deported,  about
>>> 100,000 of them were children.  What happened to these
>>> children?
>
>> If they went to Auschwitz, why do U.S. military photographs of the
>> region taken during the time-frame in question not show any trace of
>> them?
>
>Because they were murdered.

No idiot boy, there was no trace of them BEFORE they were murdered, or
before anything else happened to them. There is certainly no trace of
them afterwards, but there should have been.

None of the burning pit stories survived the American aerial
photographs of the period, and yet this legend still persists.


>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:09 EST 2009
Article: 1980173 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:57:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:03:20 +1000, in
>, "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:00a2m4104vpsjgu81r7h7g78unh5lu5g7u@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:30:34 +1000, in
>
>[...]
>
>> >> >> >You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>> >> >> >children
>> >> >> >arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>> >> >> >killed
>> >> >> >at Auschwitz.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> >> other location. The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> >> >> unfounded supposition.
>> >> >
>> >> > But they didn't.
>> >>
>> >> How do you know?
>> >
>> > Because they never left the camp.
>> 
>> I see. YOU say they never left the camp (which is entirely unpoved) ergo, 
>> they must have been killed.
>
>I didn't say that.  I said there is a record of them arriving at the
>camp, and no record of them leaving.  And they have never turned up
>anywhere in over 60 years.  That doesn't leave very many other
>possibilities.

Let me paraphrase your analysis. There is no evidence of seventy
Chinese orphans arriving on Jupiter, and no record of them leaving
Jupiter. None of them have turned up anywhere in over sixty years.
They must have been murdered on Jupiter.

The other possibility is that the little group never existed in the
first place, much like the WW1 groups of Belgian children whose hands
were allegedly cut off by German soldiers.  Propaganda is pretty
powerful stuff that creates all manner of legends and hallucinations.

> 
>> Well done. It doesn't take much "evidence" to create a Holocaust(tm).
>
>Nice troll.
>
>> >> >That is the point.  And they were nowhere to be
>> >> > found after the war.
>> >>
>> >> How do you know?
>> >
>> > Because they never turned up anywhere and have not since.
>> 
>> Not by the name they were jailed under.
>
>Now this begins to get interesting.  On what do you base that,
>documentary evidence of course?
> 
>> How many did not want to be associated with anything Jewish at the end of 
>> the war? How many might have changed their names and country of origin? How 
>> many children were taken in by families and raised as their own (I know this 
>> happened in Poland)
>
>I don't know.  You tell me, and provide the evidence that supports
>your statements.
> 
>> >> >The fact that they were killed at Auschwitz is
>> >> > quite obvious.
>> >>
>> >> There is no "fact" involved, old feller. It is pure speculation. 
>> >> Speculation
>> >> of the worst kind. People were hanged as a result of this type of
>> >> "evidence."
>> >
>> > You may think that your feigning ignorance is clever.  It isn't.
>> 
>> I am feigning no ignorance because there is no ignorance involved on my 
>> part. Nice try at a trap, by the bye.
>
>You just fell into one.  See above.
>
>[troll deleted]


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:09 EST 2009
Article: 1980174 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:58:49 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:46:24 +1000, in
>, "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:k2a2m4l5oin2b72hi6ajqjrfov3u2l1dmf@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:16:11 +0100, in
>> > , Zulu  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Gord McFee escribió:
>> >> > On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:48:50 -0500, in
>> >> > <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >> >  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> >>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> >>>>> In article ,
>> >> >>>>> Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> >>>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> >>>>>>  wrote:
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> >>>>>>> news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> >>>>>> [...]
>> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>>> Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we 
>> >> >>>>>>>> do in
>> >> >>>>>>>> fact
>> >> >>>>>>>> have records about those other people who arrived at the camps 
>> >> >>>>>>>> and
>> >> >>>>>>>> were
>> >> >>>>>>>> summarily killed there.
>> >> >>>>>>> NO you don't.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >> >>>>>>> You're a liar, keenan.
>> >> >>>>>> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no 
>> >> >>>>>> rebuttal.
>> >> >>>>>> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal. 
>> >> >>>>>> It's
>> >> >>>>>> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >> >>>>> Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >> >>>>> Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >> >>>>> children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >> >>>> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >> >>> I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>> >> >>> children
>> >> >>> arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>> >> >>> killed
>> >> >>> at Auschwitz.
>> >> >> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> >> other location. The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> >> >> unfounded supposition.
>> >> >
>> >> > But they didn't.  That is the point.  And they were nowhere to be
>> >> > found after the war.  The fact that they were killed at Auschwitz is
>> >> > quite obvious.
>> >>
>> >> You don't know if they didn't.
>> >
>> > Produce the evidence that they left.  The evidence that they arrived
>> > is already in existence.
>> 
>> That evidence either does not exist or has been nixed by the Holocaust(tm) 
>> industry.
>
>What are you trying to do - bail the whole bunch of denier losers out?

Given it a rest, Gord. Just because people do not subscribe to your
cult beliefs does not imply that they are "losers". You accept your
cult beliefs on faith, but many others simply don't share that faith.

>I see the rest of them have fled.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:09 EST 2009
Article: 1980175 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 19:54:04 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>,
> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> > "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>> >> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article ,
>> >> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [...]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that we do 
>> >> >> > > in
>> >> >> > > fact
>> >> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the camps and 
>> >> >> > > were
>> >> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > NO you don't.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no rebuttal.
>> >> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.  It's
>> >> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >> 
>> >> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >
>> >I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >
>> >You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of children 
>> >arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were killed 
>> >at Auschwitz.
>> 
>> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> other location. The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> unfounded supposition.
>> 
>So the Nazis recorded their train trip to Auschwitz but didn't bother to 
>record their train trip out?

This really has little to do with Nazis, but with basic operation of a
railroad. If the Reichsbahn sent a train to location X, then there
will most definitely be a record of it leaving, right down to the
closest second. There are an average of 60,000 train runs in Germany
scheduled each day, and their positions and speeds are known to the
nearest second, or there would be grizzly collisions.

If there is no record of the train arriving somewhere, and no record
of it departing, then there was no train run in the first place.

>
>How many trains left Auschwitz with people on them? And where did they 
>go?   
>
>The simple question is: where are those children? 
>
>Your mystery trains are the only unfounded suppositions here.
>
>> >
>> >It proves Mr. Keenan's point, and demonstrates that you are not being 
>> >honest.
>> >
>> >Hope that helps.
>> >
>> >Sara
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> >
>> >> > -- 
>> >> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> >> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:10 EST 2009
Article: 1980180 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:51:36 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>> news:catamont-4F066F.20080205012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> > In article ,
>> > "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >> news:catamont-49D2AC.19540404012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> > In article <0mcvl4ti22irrdk63if5739sn6tdejj7i6@4ax.com>,
>> >> > Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:52:53 -0600, Sara Salzman
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >In article <_LWdnRfHZ6aLfcPUnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> >> >> > "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:catamont-5C295D.21053802012009@news-40.giganews.com...
>> >> >> >> > In article ,
>> >> >> >> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:04:17 +1000, in
>> >> >> >> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> >> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > "Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message
>> >> >> >> >> > news:zJ6dnU2fqYAXDMPUnZ2dnUVZ_hednZ2d@supernews.com...
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> [...]
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > > Now, though you snipped this a while ago, I pointed out that 
>> >> >> >> >> > > we
>> >> >> >> >> > > do
>> >> >> >> >> > > in
>> >> >> >> >> > > fact
>> >> >> >> >> > > have records about those other people who arrived at the 
>> >> >> >> >> > > camps
>> >> >> >> >> > > and
>> >> >> >> >> > > were
>> >> >> >> >> > > summarily killed there.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > NO you don't.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > You SURMISE is all.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > You're a liar, keenan.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> That is the kind of thing you always say when you have no 
>> >> >> >> >> rebuttal.
>> >> >> >> >> And we all know (but you won't admit) why you have no rebuttal.
>> >> >> >> >> It's
>> >> >> >> >> because Mr Keenan is spot on.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Mr. Cramer claimed to have read a copy of French Children of the
>> >> >> >> > Holocaust. It contains a very complete listing of all the French
>> >> >> >> > children who were sent to Auschwitz. Thousands of them.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> How does that take away from the fact Keenan is a liar?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I love it when you play at being stupid.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >You know damned well what it means. It means that thousands of 
>> >> >> >children
>> >> >> >arrived at Auschwitz, WERE NOT REGISTERED at Auschwitz, and were 
>> >> >> >killed
>> >> >> >at Auschwitz.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> They could have simply passed through Auschwitz on their way to some
>> >> >> other location. The addition "and were killed at Auschwitz" is
>> >> >> unfounded supposition.
>> >> >>
>> >> > So the Nazis recorded their train trip to Auschwitz but didn't bother 
>> >> > to
>> >> > record their train trip out?
>> >> >
>> >> > How many trains left Auschwitz with people on them? And where did they
>> >> > go?
>> >> >
>> >> > The simple question is: where are those children?
>> >>
>> >> Which does not justify your adopting the simple answer of "They were all
>> >> offed by the Germans."
>> >>
>> >> Why do you insist on proof to the nth degree when we goyim make a claim, 
>> >> yet
>> >> you clowns expect us to swallow your Holocaust(tm) horseshit, based on
>> >> nothing more than "because I say so," in wholesale fashion?
>> >>
>> >> What gives here?
>> >
>> > Please stop trying to change the subject and answer the question. Where
>> > are those children?
>> 
>> I am not changing the subject. My questions were totally related to this 
>> thread.
>> 
>> As I said earlier, I have no idea what happened to those children. Nor do 
>> you. Not with any factual certainty.
>
>Factual certainty is this: the children arrived at Auschwitz.

That is a supposition rather than a fact if the names of the people
were not recorded.

>They did not leave Auschwitz.

The absence of documentation means only that there is no
documentation, not that the people didn't leave.

> When Auschwitz was liberated, the children were not 
>there.

Neither was Simon Wiesenthal, but he was definitely not murdered. He
chose to go with his allegedly ultra-vicious guards rather than take
his chances with the Soviet "liberators".

> People who WERE there, prisoners and guards alike, said the 
>children had been killed and their bodies burned.

The guards had all departed, since I don't believe anybody would want
to find out what sort of treatment the Soviets had in mind for enemy
officials, so the non-existent guards woud have said nothing. The
inmates would not necessarily have been in a position to know who
suffered what fate, other than through rumour or heresay.





>
>Anything in the above paragraph you disagree with?
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>> >
>> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:10 EST 2009
Article: 1980185 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:37:08 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:09:49 -0500, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:00:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> >> Since this operation involved
>> >> more than 3.5 million front-line troops, it was obviously authorized
>> >> by the Reichstag  or there wouldn't be any money for it.
>> >
>> >Perhaps you are unaware of Hitler's role in the German military.
>> 
>> No, I'm not unaware of how the German government works. Hitler may
>> have been a dictator, but nothing he did negated the powers of the
>> Reichstag and Reichsrat, which controlled the purse strings.
>
>The Reichsrat was abolished in 1934.  After July 1933, only Nazis
>could be deputies to the Reichstag.

LOL

That would have been a real surprise to all the Christian Democrats
who voted for NS legislation in 1934, 1935, and later. Nothing the NS
government did affected the powers of the Reichstag and Reichsrat,
since the constitution remained in effect. Certain portions were
suspended by emergency legislation, but not the powers of the state
organs.




  The supreme power from that time
>on belonged to Hitler, when he combined the offices of the President
>and Chancellor into one office - his.
>
>> >I would suggest that you educate yourself as to what his role actually was.
>> 
>> LOL  You are so pompous and condescending that it is funny.
>> 
>> >In  the meantime, you can also produce the orders originating the 
>> >authorisation of the invasion of Russia.
>> 
>> The general staff would have produced a recommendation to this effect.
>> No order from Hitler was required. The foreign minister was convinced
>> that Stalin was going to attack Germany by July of 1941, in which case
>> no "order" by the Chancellor would have been required.
>
>The Foreign Minister did not determine if and when Nazi Germany
>invaded countries.

Perhaps not, but his advice did.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:10 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:57:59 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:goe5m45mksm2pc3vaa2lhfo6budooua0t7@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:04:15 +1000, in
>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:93b2m45sv1hqjr3vknqlkkn9ibh3m3o20k@4ax.com...
>>> > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:46:46 +1000, in
>>> > <5bydnbbtBK9tm_3UnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:RvudnWoEELXtK8LUnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@vex.net...
>>> >> > In article ,
>>> >> > Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > [...]
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>Only, the Reichsbahn didn't apparently keep any records either, 
>>> >> >>since
>>> >> >>much of what you claim as documentation simply doesn't exist.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The Reichsbahn kept meticulous records of all those deported to the
>>> >> > camps,
>>> >> > and they are available to scholars in Germany.
>>> >>
>>> >> Why are the records not available to all people, faigelah?
>>> >
>>> > Who says they not?
>>>
>>> I know damned well they are not. I have been denied access. I thought I'd
>>> give it a shot after Irving was denied access.
>>
>> Bullshit.  Prove it.
>
>How do you propose I prove it? Do you want me to mail you the letter I 
>received from the archivists at Bad Arolsen?

There is nothing at Bad Arolsen that hasn't passed through American
hands, so all of it is of dubious historical value. Gord has never
done any original historical research, so he wouldn't be aware of the
swamp of false documents, amended documents, and outright forgeries
that act as the shield for allied historical nonsense.


>>
>>> How do you like them apples?
>>
>> Those are lies, not apples.
>
>No they are not.
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:11 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:04:19 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:93b2m45sv1hqjr3vknqlkkn9ibh3m3o20k@4ax.com...
>> > On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:46:46 +1000, in
>> > <5bydnbbtBK9tm_3UnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>> >> news:RvudnWoEELXtK8LUnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@vex.net...
>> >> > In article ,
>> >> > Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > [...]
>> >> >
>> >> >>Only, the Reichsbahn didn't apparently keep any records either, since
>> >> >>much of what you claim as documentation simply doesn't exist.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Reichsbahn kept meticulous records of all those deported to the 
>> >> > camps,
>> >> > and they are available to scholars in Germany.
>> >>
>> >> Why are the records not available to all people, faigelah?
>> >
>> > Who says they not?
>> 
>> I know damned well they are not. I have been denied access. I thought I'd 
>> give it a shot after Irving was denied access.
>> 
>> How do you like them apples?
>
>I think they are the product of an overactive imagination. Please 
>provide some proof that a) you went to Germany; b) you applied for 
>access to view the records in question; and c) you were denied access.

I read historical literature in the original German, and numerous
authors report the same access problems. I'll give you the benefit of
the doubt, and assume that you simply don't know.

>
>At that point, I will offer you my sincerest apologies for now calling 
>you a bald-faced liar.
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Gord McFee
>> > I'll write no line before its time
>> >
>> > Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> > http://www.holocaust-history.org


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:11 EST 2009
Article: 1980191 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:19:24 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:34:04 +1000, in
>, "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:8b10m4hi56gaarjojk2mpn4cl4k11p1gtn@4ax.com...
>> > On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 13:58:40 -0500, in
>> > <72dvl4pu5m8f7umjnfqs049m52orlht4fh@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:00:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Fri, 02 Jan 2009 07:31:29 -0500, in
>> >> ><342sl4pd9c1o02nqgt61sv8hds5et92rtq@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:29:05 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> >> >news:qmhql41drnps4f1of5kj83tebokjmclbj9@4ax.com...
>> >> >> >> On Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:14:42 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>> >> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>>This is strange. You are talking about the trees instead of the 
>> >> >> >>>forest.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>You are talking about the bricks of the walls of Aushcwitz 
>> >> >> >>>concentarion
>> >> >> >>>camp
>> >> >> >>>as if its relevance or meaning were in those stones. It was there 
>> >> >> >>>and it
>> >> >> >>>is
>> >> >> >>>there. Its purpose was to kill jews and soviet prisoners of war and 
>> >> >> >>>other
>> >> >> >>>unwanted people by heavy work, malnutrition and, indeed by gassing 
>> >> >> >>>with
>> >> >> >>>cyanide. This is very well witnessed by survivors and the 
>> >> >> >>>participants not
>> >> >> >>>to mention the head of the camp, Höss. You can deny bricks with 
>> >> >> >>>this
>> >> >> >>>questinniable Leuchter report, but You cannot deny millions of 
>> >> >> >>>bricks that
>> >> >> >>>represent all those people that died there.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The camp records say that approximately 78,000 people died at
>> >> >> >> Auschwitz.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Yes, and those record *some* of those who died there.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If THAT were the case, then it wouldn't make any sense to keep ANY
>> >> >> records at all. This stuff was never intended to fall into allied
>> >> >> hands, so why would anybody keep deliberately incomplete or falsified
>> >> >> records for themselves?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Accurate record-keeping has been a kind of religion for German
>> >> >> governments for centuries. What you are suggesting is well beyond the
>> >> >> pale of probability.
>> >> >
>> >> >They kept records of the individuals for whom it made some sense to
>> >> >keep records, i.e., those admitted to the camp and registered.  It did
>> >> >not make sense to keep records for the people killed upon arrival
>> >> >because (1) they were dead and (2) the transportation records already
>> >> >existed.
>> >>
>> >> That would be somewhat convincing except for the fact that the
>> >> Reichsbahn didn't get paid for the alleged transports, and believe me,
>> >> the Reichsbahn was not in the habit of transporting anything for
>> >> nothing.
>> >
>> > That is simply not true.  The Reichsbahn indeed was paid for the
>> > transports and there is a great deal of analysis of this, along with
>> > copious references, in volume 2 of Hilberg's "Destruction of the
>> > European Jews".

Just because Hillberg wrote it doesn't make it true. Post a copy of
the waybill. I know some people who worked for the Reichsbahn and who
could instantly tell whether it was real or was an allied forgery like
so much of what passes for "documentation" on this topic.

>> 
>> Is that the same work that has been called an academic disgrace?
>
>No.  You must be confusing it with works by Germar Rudolf, Arthur Butz
>or Robert Faurisson.
> 
>> Is that the same work which uses people such as the proven liars Wiesel and 
>> Wiernik as a sources for "facts?"
>
>No.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:11 EST 2009
Article: 1980193 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:21:13 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
 wrote:

>As there are experts in telling wich documents are forged, I`d like to ask:
>Are The Nuremberg Laws (The Reich Citizenship Law of 15 September 1935, The 
>Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor, also of 15 September 1935, 
>and The First Supplementary Decree of 14 November 1935) all forged?

You have the titles of these laws in English. The laws actually did
exist.
>
>And what about the Protocols of The Wannsee conference of 20 January 1942?

The Protocols were written using an American typewriter having no SS
runes.

>
>Topi
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Jan  6 20:33:12 EST 2009
Article: 1980194 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 19:04:43 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <49623379$0$4790$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>, "Toivo Kottarainen"
> wrote:
>
>> As there are experts in telling wich documents are forged, I`d like to ask:
>> Are The Nuremberg Laws (The Reich Citizenship Law of 15 September 1935, The 
>> Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor, also of 15 September 1935, 
>> and The First Supplementary Decree of 14 November 1935) all forged?
>> 
>> And what about the Protocols of The Wannsee conference of 20 January 1942?
>
>There are several people in this forum who think that the Wannsee Protocol
>is a forgery and that the documents on display at the Wannsee museum
>(http://www.ghwk.de/engl/kopfengl.htm) are post-war fabrications. A few
>are certain that the Wannsee Protocol has been deliberately mistranslated,
>arguing that since the Jews control the Grman-to-English translation
>business, the publishing of German-English dictionaries, and the academic
>teaching of German, it can never be translated accurately. For the case
>that the entire document is a forgery, have a look at Johannes Ney's
>article at http://www.codoh.com/found/fndwannsee.html. For the argument
>that it cannot be translated accurately due to Jewish control of the
>translation industry, do a Boolean search for "Cramer" and "Wannsee".
>Crajer claims to have invested big (Australian) bucks in having the
>document retranslated into English, but wound up being stonewalled with no
>possibility of recovering the advance he had paid when the translation
>agency realized what document it had been asked to translate. Cramer,
>wihtout knowing German himself, also claims that the meanings of so many
>German words and phrases have changed during the past sixty-odd years that
>nobody can be sure that a translation offered by a speaker of contemporary
>German is accurate.
>
>Holocaust revisionism is supposed to be the intellectual adventure of the
>century :-)
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman

You're way behind the times, Eugene. The Wannsee conference is already
widely dismissed as being of any great significance.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:04 EST 2009
Article: 1980448 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:09:38 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article <8dp7m499emckdm2n9l3i7jtg6qh9jce1jv@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 21:22:29 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
>>  wrote:
>
>>>    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>>
>>>    Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>>> death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>>
>>>    The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>>> in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>    A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was 
>>> conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists,  headed by
>>> Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland,  who is the
>>> author of more than 130 papers on archaeology.  The team studied the site
>>> of the death camp,  drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core 
>>> samples.  The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA: 
>>> "BELZEC.  THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES. 
>>> Excavations 1997-1999".  ISBN 83-905590-6-4).  The study has recovered 
>>> human remains over a very large area,  to a depth of up to six meters. 
>>> The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.
>
>> The Poles continued to use most of the well known NS concentration
>> camps until about 1950 to murder the indigenous German population of
>> the lands they were fraudulently awarded after WW2. 
>
>Bullshit. 

Not at all. Auschwitz continued to be used by your buddies the Poles
until 1950. You sophistically managed to dredge up a couple of camps
that were not, but that really doesn't prove anything nor does it
negate what I said.





 Belzec and Sobibor were razed to the ground by the SS
>and there was never any "camp for Germans" in them.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:05 EST 2009
Article: 1980449 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:31:46 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Always the same stupid question I was too young.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"I'll Always Be 06/01/09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B8BCB57720B2Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in 
>> news:xxT8l.2245$Db2.518@edtnps83:
>>
>>>
>>> "Tim Miller"  wrote in message
>>> news:gk0vfi$2ev$2@news.motzarella.org...
>>>> Topaz wrote:
>>>>> Here are some quotes from Mein Kampf:
>>>>
>>>> No one cares what you convicts "think".
>>>
>>> When did you become a confict.
>>> kk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> When did you become a hitler youth? 

The cretin posting as "I'll always be" is truly an ignorant jackass.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:05 EST 2009
Article: 1980452 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:38:34 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <9sq7m4h9kkb7tii6q8ocatefe5v1lndkqg@4ax.com>,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:40:13 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article ,
>> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>> >> 
>> >
>> >> 
>> >> > the incorporation of Luxembourg and Alsace into the
>> >> >Reich in 1940,
>> >> 
>> >> Alsace was ripped off from Germany by Louis XIV. It has pretty much
>> >> exclusively German town names and a German population. Luxembourg was
>> >> not annexed, but occupied.
>> >
>> >Luxembourg was annexed and incorporated into the Moselgau in August, 1942.
>> >Luxembourgers became citizens of the Reich and were conscripted into the
>> >German military.
>> 
>> Luxemburg had been part of the first Empire. Some of the princes of
>> Luxemburg had held the title of German Emperor. There was no legal
>> entity called the "Third Reich", so it was incapable to annexing
>> territory. 
>
>Tell that to the Luxembourgers. Luxembourgers were forced to serve in the
>German army, local Jews were forced to wear the yellow star and were
>eventually deported, and Luxembourg was incorporated into the Moselgau. 

Why do you use a French spelling for a country that isn't French
speaking? Are you also a shill for Napoleon, who actually did annex
Luxemburg and change the spelling to the silly French "bourg".

>
>> Any and all accessions to Germany would have to be approved
>> by the Reichsrat, and as far as I know, this had never happened. The
>> rest is just wikipedia babble, a notoriously unreliable source.
>
>Note that in addition to the brief summary of the issue from Wikipedia I
>also posted a detailed account of the process based on evidence presented
>at the Nuremberg Tribunal. It's slainet point is: "The annexation of
>Luxembourg has quite a special character, in that it carried with it the
>total abolition of the sovereignty of this occupied country."
>
>>
>>Source:http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/imt/ftp.py?imt//tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>> >
>> >
>> >Archive/File: imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-06/tgmwc-06-49.01
>> >Last-Modified: 1999/09/16
>> >
>> >          VERBATIM PROCEEDINGS OF THE INTERNATIONAL
>> >           MILITARY TRIBUNAL SITTING AT NUREMBERG,
>> >                           GERMANY
>> >                              
>> >                       FORTY-NINTH DAY
>> >                              
>> >                SATURDAY, 2ND FEBRUARY, 1946
>> >                              
>> >THE MARSHAL: May it please the Court, I desire to announce that the
>> >defendants Kaltenbrunner, Seyss-Inquart, and Streicher will be absent
>> >from this morning's session due to illness.
>> >
>> >M. FAURE: Gentlemen: I shall ask the Tribunal to be kind enough now to
>> >take the file which is entitled "Luxembourg."
>> >
>> >The Tribunal has already been informed of the essential elements of the
>> >situation concerning Luxembourg by the testimony of President Reuter,
>> >who was heard during yesterday's session. I will, therefore, be able to
>> >shorten my explanations of this file, but it is nevertheless
>> >indispensable that I should submit some documents to the Tribunal.
>> >
>> >The annexation of Luxembourg has quite a special character, in that it
>> >carried with it the total abolition of the sovereignty of this occupied
>> >country.
>> >
>> >It therefore concerns a case which corresponds to the hypothesis which
>> >we call "dabellatio" in classic law, that is to say, the cessation of
>> >hostilities by the disappearance of the body of public law of one of the
>> >belligerents.
>> >
>> >This total annexation of Luxembourg completes the proof that there was
>> >criminal premeditation on the part of the Reich against this State, to
>> >which it was bound by diplomatic treaties, notably the Treaty of London,
>> >of 11th May, 1867, and the Treaty of Arbitration and Conciliation of 2nd
>> >September, 1929. The Tribunal knows by the testimony of M. Reuter that
>> >these pledges were confirmed, first by a spontaneous diplomatic step
>> >taken in 1939 by M. von Radowitz, the Minister Plenipotentiary for
>> >Germany, and afterwards by a reassuring declaration a few days before
>> >the invasion, in circumstances which have already been explained to the
>> >Tribunal.
>> >
>> >In view of the fact that Luxembourg-unlike Alsace and Lorraine, which
>> >were French departments-I say, in view of the fact that Luxembourg was a
>> >State, the Germans, in order to carry out this defacto annexation, had
>> >to issue special regulations concerning the suppression of public
>> >institutions; and this they did. Two decrees of 2nd and 9th October,
>> >1940, announced, on the one hand, the dissolution of the Chamber of
>> >Deputies and the State Council, and, on the other hand, banned
>> >Luxembourg's political parties. These two decrees are submitted as
>> >exhibits under RF 801 and 802. I request the Tribunal only to take
>> >judicial notice of these documents, which are public documents.
>> >
>> >Moreover, on 26th August, 1940, a German decree had abolished the
>> >constitutional executive formula, according to which justice is rendered
>> >in the name of the sovereign. A formula according to which justice is
>> >rendered in the name of the people was substituted at that time for this
>> >executive formula.
>> >
>> >On 15th October, 1941, the formula was again modified in a more obvious
>> >way and became: "In the name of the German people."
>> >
>> >I shall now follow in my supplementary explanation the order of ideas
>> >which I adopted for Alsace and Lorraine, and naturally I shall dwell
>> >only on those circumstances which are peculiar to Luxembourg.
>> >
>> >                                                                [Page 2]
>> >
>> >As in the case of Alsace and Lorraine, the Germans attempted to
>> >extirpate the national sentiment of Luxembourg and to render impossible
>> >all minifestations of the traditional culture of this country. Thus, the
>> >decrees of 28th August, 1940, and of 23rd October, 1940, banned all
>> >associations of a cultural or educational nature.
>> >
>> >As in Alsace and Lorraine, the Germans imposed Germanisation of family
>> >names and Christian names. This is clear from a decree of 31st January,
>> >1941, concerning the change of Christian names and family names in
>> >Luxembourg, Exhibit RF 803. I point out in passing that the wearing of a
>> >beret was also forbidden in Luxembourg, by decree of 14th February,
>> >1941.
>> >
>> >At the same time as they did away with national institutions, the
>> >Germans set up, according to their custom, their own administration and
>> >appointed a Gauleiter in the person of Gustay Simon, the former
>> >Gauleiter of Koblenz-Trier.
>> >
>> >From the administrative point of view, the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg was
>> >administered as a "Bezirk" (district) of the Chief of the Civilian
>> >Administrative Service, but by the German Administrative Service. From
>> >the point of view of the National Socialist Party, it was officially
>> >joined to the Reich, as a dependency of the Mosel Gau.
>> >
>> >I shall not dwell on the introduction of German civilian and penal
>> >institutions, which were introduced in the same way as in Alsace and
>> >Lorraine. Sufficient proof of this must be considered to have been given
>> >by the submission of the official report of the Government of the Grand
>> >Duchy.
>> >
>> >As regards nationality and conscription, we also notice a parallel
>> >between the provisions which concern Luxembourg and those which concern
>> >other annexed countries.
>> >
>> >On 30th August, 1942, two decrees were promulgated. It must be pointed
>> >out that these two decrees, the one concerning nationality and the other
>> >military service, bear the same date.
>> >
>> >The decree concerning military service is submitted as Exhibit RF 804
>> >and the decree concerning nationality is submitted as Exhibit RF 805.
>> >The legislation concerning nationality includes, moreover, a provision
>> >which is peculiar to Luxembourg, although it is in conformity with the
>> >general spirit of German legislation concerning nationality in annexed
>> >countries.
>> >
>> >The Germans had created in Luxembourg various organisations of the Nazi
>> >type, of which the main one was the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung" (German
>> >Movement), and here is the special circumstance which I wish to point
>> >out. The decree concerning nationality, of 30th August, 1942, grants
>> >German nationality to persons who gave their adherence to this
>> >association, the "Volksdeutsche Bewegung," but this nationality could be
>> >revoked. This is shown in the last paragraph of the title of this
>> >decree. In fact, the conferring of nationality in this special case was
>> >valid for two years only. It was provisional.
>> >
>> >At the same time as the Nazis were establishing conscription, they made
>> >it compulsory for all young Luxembourgers to serve in the pre-military
>> >formations of the Hitler Youth. This is laid down in a decree of 25th
>> >August, 1942, concerning the Hitler Youth camps, which is Exhibit RF
>> >806. Just as in Alsace and Lorraine, compulsory labour was imposed in
>> >Luxembourg, not only for men, but also for women, and also for work of
>> >military importance. These provisions are found in three decrees; the
>> >decree of 23rd May, 1941, the decree of 10th February, 1943, and the
>> >decree of 12th February, 1943. These last two decrees are introduced as
>> >Exhibits RF 807 and 808.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:06 EST 2009
Article: 1980455 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:10:16 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 09:58:49 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>> 
>> >This state united people of various ethnicities who had
>> >had a pan-German identity forced onto their older and stronger Holsteiner,
>> >Prussian, Frankish, Bavarian, Saxon, Swabian, Frisian, etc. local
>> >identities.
>> 
>> They were hardly different ethnicities. They already collectively
>> called themselves "Deutsch" before the end of the ninth century.
>
>But *deutsch* is merely a collective term, based on Old High German tiudsk
>(tiud 'people' + -sk 'ADJECTIVE FORMATIVE'), originally designating not an
>ethnicity, but rather the fact that the language in question was that of
>the people rather than Latin.
>
>> >Indeed, it was only some two centuries before that High German
>> >(Hochdeutsch) had been forced on the northern part of the country where
>> >Low German (Plattdeutsch) and Frisian, different languages, not just sets
>> >of dialects, had been current.
>> 
>> Plattdeutsch, Frisian, Danish, English, Swedish, etc. are all Germanic
>> languages, but Hochdeutsch had been in use for many centuries as the
>> common language of the whole Empire. 
>
>Unfortunately, the term *Hochdeutsch* has two meanings:
>
>1. The German dialects spoken in the southernmost parts of Germany, in
>Austria, and in the German-speaking parts of Switzerland. It is defined as
>the West Germanic dialects that have completely undergone the High German
>Sound Shift (zweite Lautverschiebung). These dialects, Swabian, Allemanic,
>Bavarian, stand in opposition to Mittledeutsch (e.g Frankish,
>Rhine-Franconian, Saxon), the dialects of which have undergone it
>partially, and Niederdeutsch, the dialects of which have not undergone it
>at all.
>
>2. The normalization of German, based largely on the usage of the Saxon
>Chancellery in the 16th century, that spread to northern German with the
>Luther Bible and had replaced Plattdeutsch as the administrative, but not
>spoken, language by the year 1700.
>
>> People spoke their local
>> languages, and Hochdeutsch. Nobody was "forced" to do anything.
>
>Plattdeutsch speakers were forced, by social pressure if nothing else, to
>learn "Luther German" if they wanted to get ahead. Plattdeutsch, the
>language o0f the Hansa and a considerable body of literature, lost its
>status as a language of administration and culture and was reduced to that
>of a patois. North Germans became effectively bilingual in High German,
>which was propagated by the Lutheran church and, later, the schools and
>media, and their local variant of Low German, which they used in a
>decreasing sphere on contexts in everyday life.
> 
>> >For a number geopolitical reasons,
>> >Bismarck's German state did not include German-speaking Luxembourg or
>> >Liechtenstein, the German-speaking parts of France, the multilingual dual
>> >monarchy Austria-Hungary, or multilingual but German-speaking majority
>> >Switzerland.
>> 
>> I see, Germans are expected to accept the results of French
>> imperialism and simply bow to the whims of foreigners who detached
>> portions of the Empire during periods of weakness. What a bunch of
>> hypocrites.
>
>Unlike the Germans, not everyone was trying to establish linguistically
>and ethnically homogenous states. France still has areas were Alsatian (=
>German), Basque, Corsican, Flemish, and Occitan are the local languages.

France was the expansionist frog in the European pond for many
centuries. They really liked to force themselves on people.

> 
>> >The objective of German supernationalists such as Adolf Hitler was to make
>> >the German state congruent with the space where German culture and
>> >identity dominated, and then direct the energies of this densely populated
>> >superstate to capturing and depopulating territory, *Lebensraum*, from the
>> >Poles, Russians, Byelorussians, and Ukrainians, all of them regarded by
>> >the Germans as racially and culturally inferior to them. Germany, which
>> >became an empire too late to be able to grab choice overseas colonies,
>> >would build its empire in eastern Europe. This is not an "allied
>> >fabrication" but rather a basic fact of post-Bismarckian German
>> >nationalism.
>> >
>> >Hitler, a citizen of Austria-Hungary by birth, latched on to this
>> >pan-German nationalism at an early age, emigrating to Germany, fighting in
>> >the German army, writing a book dealing with the objectives of German
>> >nationalism, and taking German citizenship. Austria was not a separate
>> >state because of Versailles, but rather Austria-Hungary was divided up
>> >along linguistic lines because of Versailles, with the German-speaking
>> >part becoming Austria and Vienna an imperial capital without an empire.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Eugene Holman
>> 
>> This is the typical American historical babble with which they have
>> made an ungodly mess wherever they have gone, most recently
>> Afghanistan and Iraq. 
>
>Says the man who denies that Luxembourg was annexed by Germany during WW
>II, and that the Slavic languages are an invention of Sts. Cyrill and
>Methodius...
>
>> Americans rushed into all these areas with
>> half-baked notions about local conditions and totally fraudulent
>> pictures of the local history, similar to the ones being spouted here
>> about Germany by Eugene. 
>
>The things about my account that you claim to be fraudulant are not.
>Luxembourg was indeed annexed by Nazi Germany, and the Slavic languages
>are direct linear descendants of Proto-Indo European, having emerged as
>spoken languages in someting approximating their present form during the
>first pre-Christian millennium. The Oldest written documents on Old Church
>Slavonic date from the late 10th and the early 11th centuries, not from
>the 14th as you claim in another posting. The spoken language, of course,
>is much older. For details, see e.g.
>http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/ocsol-0-X.html.
>
>> I meet American jackasses all the time who
>> try to explain Canada to me, and how Canadian society works. They are
>> generally 100% wrong, but they are so pompous and self-important that
>> they are beyond instruction. They are as ignorant there as they tend
>> to be of Germany, and they are so out of it that they don't even
>> realize that they are out of it.
>
>Rather than make general accusations, point out a specific error
>concerning German history that I have made.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:06 EST 2009
Article: 1980458 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:04:39 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:06:00 +0000 (UTC), in
>, "I'll Always Be
>05/01/09"  wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee  wrote in 
>> news:4tg5m4dp64ge30couc90qpsm7rkfailg3f@4ax.com:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in
>> > , Johannes von Ebersdorf
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>,
>> >> >ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be 03/01/09"
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> >Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> That is an allied fabrication. 
>> >> >
>> >> >How so?
>> >> >
>> >> >Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of Austria
>> >> 
>> >> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It has it
>> >> own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum hardly applies.
>> >> Austria was a separate state because of Versailles.
>> > 
>> > No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.
>> 
>> Strange that he's never heard of Austro-Hungary
>
>Or the Congress of Vienna!

The city is Wien and always was. Austro-Hungary has never existed. The
so-called Congress of Vienna did happen but is totally irrelevant to
the topic at hand.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:07 EST 2009
Article: 1980459 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:41:18 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>[snippage]
>
 [more snippage]

LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:07 EST 2009
Article: 1980462 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:18:38 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>> >> In AD800, there were no Slavs in Europe.
>> >
>> >There were certainly peoples who spoke Slavic languages.
>> 
>> Sure, Eugene, the earliest examples of what is known is "church
>> slavonic", the pre-cursor of modern slavic languages 
>
>It most certainly is not. Old Church Slavonic was one of several
>co-existent Slavic dialects used during the 9th century when Sts. Cyrill
>and Methodius devised a writing system to enable them to do missionary
>work among the Slavs living to the north of their native Greece. People do
>not (with rare exceptions such as Zamenhof's Esperanto) make languages up,
>and languages have far longer histories than their first written
>attestations.
>
>> was around 1400.
>> Your American "history" claims that people in Europe spoke slavic
>> languages more than six hundred years before any slavic languages
>> surfaced. That is one of the reasons that for me, American is
>> synonymous with garbage. What Americans don't know or understand would
>> fill entire libraries.
>
>Source: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/ocsol-0-X.html
>
>
>
>Although Old Church Slavonic (OCS) is the oldest documented Slavic
>language, it is not the language from which the other Slavic languages
>evolved any more than Sanskrit is the language from which the other
>Indo-European languages evolved. Rather OCS is now thought to be a dialect
>of one of the branches of the Slavic languages.
>
>We may imagine that the community which later became Slavic speakers was
>at some time a dialect group of Proto-Indo-European (PIE). When the speech
>community became sufficiently separated from other PIE speakers to allow
>for independent language evolution, over time their dialect developed into
>what we may term Common Slavic (CS) or Proto-Slavic (PSl). Subsequently
>the same process happened again whereby, through the course of migration
>and the vying for power of different neighboring and internal kingdoms or
>empires, divisions of the Common Slavic speech community became isolated
>from one another. By the time of Late Common Slavic (LCS), three distinct
>dialects had emerged: East, West, and South Slavic. Modern examples of
>this dialectal division would be Russian in the East, Czech and Polish in
>the West, and Serbo-Croatian and Bulgarian in the South.
>
>Certain linguistic features show Old Church Slavonic to be a member of the
>South Slavic group of languages. For instance, the front nasal  of LCS
>retains its front quality in South Slavic, whereas it develops a back
>quality in both the East and West dialects. Thus OCS has mso where Czech,
>for example, has maso. Likewise, South Slavic retains the nasal  in the
>accusative plural of ja-stem nouns, whereas in East and West Slavic the
>nasality is lost. Hence OCS konj in contrast to Old Russian kon (East
>Slavic) and Polish konie (West Slavic).
>
>It is supposed, however, that in the 9th Century the dialectal differences
>were still minor enough that mutual intelligibility was possible across a
>wide expanse of the Slavic-speaking community. This view is supported by
>the fact that the efforts of Cyril and Methodius were conducted through
>the medium of OCS alone; presumably they chose this language so that their
>translations would be suitable for conversion of the pan-Slavic community.
>It is not quite clear to what degree the language of the OCS manuscripts
>resembles the actual spoken language of the region. It is often assumed
>that the language is the same as that which was spoken in the centuries
>preceding the work of Cyril and Methodius; but by the time of the extant
>manuscripts were written, the actual spoken language was beginning to
>diverge from the written language. Nevertheless, the written language
>continued to exert an influence of its own, even beyond the regions of its
>origin. For example, in the 11th Century one finds in Old Russian, on the
>geographical extremity of the Slavic community, constant stylistic and
>lexical borrowings from OCS as its own literature develops.
>
>
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman

It still doesn't alter the fact that there is no slavic type in a
racial sense. Today's Slavs are the descendants of Vandals, Goths,
Lombards, and various other Germanic tribes that were bastardized by
the Huns, Mongols, and other invaders from the east.

Polish land claims against Germany were and are absurd.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:07 EST 2009
Article: 1980463 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hamas treatment of Political opponents
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:12:33 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
wrote:

>
>"Yosarian"  wrote in message 
>news:v0x8l.16874$ZP4.2101@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>> "Yosarian"  wrote in message 
>>> news:s568l.15950$Ws1.5810@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
>>>> Kurt Knoll wrote:
>>>>> Interesting I guess Israel has their hand in game. Now we have as you 
>>>>> say Fatha and Hamas not trusting each other. The Jews do like it, is 
>>>>> called divide and conquer.
>>>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>>
>>>> What this shows Mr. Knoll is that Hamas and other Arab/muslim-islamo 
>>>> facists, have not the slightest intention of ever allowing democracy to 
>>>> flourish.
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever asked them whether they wanted democracy, mister 
>>> professional jew? I think not.
>>
>> You would ask a dictatorial/Arab-Islamo-Nazi-Facist group if they would 
>> want democracy?
>
>Yet Dubya has tried to shove it down their throats. The yids screech that 
>they are (incorrectly) the only democracy in the Middle East, implying 
>democracy should be embraced by all.

Israel is anything but a democracy.

>
>You're a bit of a silly Billy, aren't you, mister professional jew.
>
>You open your mouth and place both feet squarely in side said "norf'n'souf.
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> After having seen Israeli and US "democracy" at work over the past couple 
>>> of decades, I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to follow 
>>> those models.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Democracy is much better then the lunatic Hamas/Hizbollah/Al Qeida/ 
>> Arab/Islamo-Nazi-facist dictatorships.
>
>Agreed. But democracy is not for everyone. (There's a touch of satire there 
>if you're capable of seeing it)
>
>
>>
>>
>> Oh, follow ups trimmed. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:08 EST 2009
Article: 1980465 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 12:05:06 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>> news:6685356b-47d1-45f2-bb87-894ce2c3ae89@r15g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>
>> 
>> >In reality, you can understand the gist of many documents without
>> >translating every single word.
>> 
>> We aren't seeking "gist" b'luto. We are seeking ABSOLUTES.
>
>Human language isn't physics. All linguistic communication has a large
>amount of redundancy, metaphor, and simile. When the Wannsee Protocol
>states that:
>
>"Šwerden die arbeitsfähigen Juden straßenbauend in die Gebiete geführt,
>wobei zweifellos ein Großteil durch natürliche Verminderung ausfallen
>wird."

That is pretty pathetic German, and not likely to appear on an
official document. It looks as if it were put together by some
befuddled Yankee. I have never seen š used for anything in German. I
think it appears to Czech.


>
>anybody who knows German understands that "ausfallen", lit. "out-fall"
>means "perish" and not "fall out", just as anyone who speaks English knows
>that if you say "I had a falling out with my boss" knows that harsh words
>were exchanged.
>
>Language is by nature a fuzzy medium. If it were absolute, it could not be
>used to construct statements about novel events, entities, and situations.
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:08 EST 2009
Article: 1980467 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:13 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-0501091904430001@ke-hupnet143-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article <49623379$0$4790$9b536df3@news.fv.fi>, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> As there are experts in telling wich documents are forged, I`d like to 
>>> ask:
>>> Are The Nuremberg Laws (The Reich Citizenship Law of 15 September 1935, 
>>> The
>>> Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor, also of 15 September 
>>> 1935,
>>> and The First Supplementary Decree of 14 November 1935) all forged?
>>>
>>> And what about the Protocols of The Wannsee conference of 20 January 
>>> 1942?
>>
>> There are several people in this forum who think that the Wannsee Protocol
>> is a forgery and that the documents on display at the Wannsee museum
>> (http://www.ghwk.de/engl/kopfengl.htm) are post-war fabrications. A few
>> are certain that the Wannsee Protocol has been deliberately mistranslated,
>> arguing that since the Jews control the Grman-to-English translation
>> business, the publishing of German-English dictionaries, and the academic
>> teaching of German, it can never be translated accurately. For the case
>> that the entire document is a forgery, have a look at Johannes Ney's
>> article at http://www.codoh.com/found/fndwannsee.html. For the argument
>> that it cannot be translated accurately due to Jewish control of the
>> translation industry, do a Boolean search for "Cramer" and "Wannsee".
>> Crajer claims to have invested big (Australian) bucks in having the
>> document retranslated into English, but wound up being stonewalled with no
>> possibility of recovering the advance he had paid when the translation
>> agency realized what document it had been asked to translate. Cramer,
>> wihtout knowing German himself, also claims that the meanings of so many
>> German words and phrases have changed during the past sixty-odd years that
>> nobody can be sure that a translation offered by a speaker of contemporary
>> German is accurate.
>
>Which is another brilliant example of the distortions, partial truths and 
>skewed nonsense you have made your stock in trade, yougenie.
>
>WHOOOOOPS - Another ten years in the slammer for Cramer.

Actually, German has changed so little in the last 500 years that
texts by Luther, unlike texts by Shakespeare, can still be easily read
and understood. The idea that texts a mere sixty years old are now
unintelligible to speakers of German is typical American horsepucky.

>
>
>>
>> Holocaust revisionism is supposed to be the intellectual adventure of the
>> century :-)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:08 EST 2009
Article: 1980479 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:48:13 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:21:13 +0200, "Toivo Kottarainen"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >As there are experts in telling wich documents are forged, I`d like to ask:
>> >Are The Nuremberg Laws (The Reich Citizenship Law of 15 September 1935, The 
>> >Law for the Protection of German Blood and Honor, also of 15 September 1935, 
>> >and The First Supplementary Decree of 14 November 1935) all forged?
>> 
>> You have the titles of these laws in English. The laws actually did
>> exist.
>> >
>> >And what about the Protocols of The Wannsee conference of 20 January 1942?
>> 
>> The Protocols were written using an American typewriter having no SS
>> runes.
>
>Mensch, wie Du spinnst!

Many documents that I have seen have the SS runes added by hand, as
well as the various umlauts. It didn't matter, since neither the
defendant or his lawyers would ever be permitted to see the document.
There is a good reason that originals are generally not available, and
only "certified copies". Many of the forgeries are so inept that a
grade 5 pupil would be ashamed of the work, but it still didn't
matter. By definition, any allied document was "truth", no matter how
ridiculous.

>
>Go to http://www.ghwk.de/deut/proto.htm and download "Seite 2". You will
>see that the typewriter used had the SS runes, which are used several
>times in the titles of people listed, as well as the German leters ä, ö,
>ü, and ß. These are not characters that you would find on a standard
>American typewriter of the time.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:09 EST 2009
Article: 1980728 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:24:58 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/6/2009 8:11 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 19:57:59 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:goe5m45mksm2pc3vaa2lhfo6budooua0t7@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:04:15 +1000, in
>>>> , "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:93b2m45sv1hqjr3vknqlkkn9ibh3m3o20k@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:46:46 +1000, in
>>>>>> <5bydnbbtBK9tm_3UnZ2dnUVZ_rXinZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:RvudnWoEELXtK8LUnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only, the Reichsbahn didn't apparently keep any records either, 
>>>>>>>>> since
>>>>>>>>> much of what you claim as documentation simply doesn't exist.
>>>>>>>> The Reichsbahn kept meticulous records of all those deported to the
>>>>>>>> camps,
>>>>>>>> and they are available to scholars in Germany.
>>>>>>> Why are the records not available to all people, faigelah?
>>>>>> Who says they not?
>>>>> I know damned well they are not. I have been denied access. I thought I'd
>>>>> give it a shot after Irving was denied access.
>>>> Bullshit.  Prove it.
>>> How do you propose I prove it? Do you want me to mail you the letter I 
>>> received from the archivists at Bad Arolsen?
>> 
>> There is nothing at Bad Arolsen that hasn't passed through American
>> hands, so all of it is of dubious historical value. Gord has never
>> done any original historical research, so he wouldn't be aware of the
>> swamp of false documents, amended documents, and outright forgeries
>> that act as the shield for allied historical nonsense.
>
>That was wrong right down the line.

The great Gordie has spoken!  LOL

You're not the pope yet, Gordie, who gets to speak excathedra. Your
opinions are just that, opinions.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:09 EST 2009
Article: 1980729 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rethinking the Gaza Situation
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On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 04:32:58 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>Why did Hamas shoot some low grade rockets into Israel?  What did they
>hope to accomplish?  Instill fear in the Israeli population?  OR did
>they hope to provoke a psycho response from Israel?  So that the world
>could see how bad Israel really is.???
>I wonder if they expected (hoped for?) what they got, the murder of
>hundreds of innocents.

If Israel were an individual, rather than a political state, it would
definitely be categorized as a psychopath.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:10 EST 2009
Article: 1980730 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:38:26 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:31:03 -0500, in
><4it7m4p9e0jmj9bi0d5l4jifrkca3nqik1@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>[a troll which has been deleted]

The principal trolls on this newsgroup are Gordie McFool and Kenny
McFuck. Is there some genetic problem among Scots that results in IQs
smaller than their shoe-sizes?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:10 EST 2009
Article: 1980731 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forgeries
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:59:16 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:27:13 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Which is another brilliant example of the distortions, partial truths and 
>> >skewed nonsense you have made your stock in trade, yougenie.
>> >
>> >WHOOOOOPS - Another ten years in the slammer for Cramer.
>> 
>> Actually, German has changed so little in the last 500 years that
>> texts by Luther, unlike texts by Shakespeare, can still be easily read
>> and understood. The idea that texts a mere sixty years old are now
>> unintelligible to speakers of German is typical American horsepucky.
>
>Don't blame the Americans for this nonsense. Cramer is an Austrialian, and
>the "controversy" about the allegedly changed meanings of
>*ausrotten/Ausrottung* has been maintained by the British pseudohistorian
>David Irving.

Irving was right. The meaning of "Ausrotten" depends on the context,
and it does not have to mean "exterminate" any more than "remove" has
to mean "exterminate". Irving has much better qualifications than
American fools such as William L. Shirer who was a journalist and who
wrote stuff that lies below the quality of articles in the National
Enquirer.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:11 EST 2009
Article: 1980732 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:50:36 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:18:38 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>> 
>> It still doesn't alter the fact that there is no slavic type in a
>> racial sense. 
>
>Neither is there a Germanic type.

A number of world atlases say otherwise, and I find them more credible
than some American mouthpiece for Israel.

>
>> Today's Slavs are the descendants of Vandals, Goths,
>> Lombards, and various other Germanic tribes that were bastardized by
>> the Huns, Mongols, and other invaders from the east.
>
>Today's speakers of Germanic languages, particularly the larger ones
>English, German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Afrikaans, also
>have large bodies of speakers representing every race under the sun. There
>is and never was a "Germanic type", since Germanic languages have spread
>by conquest, assimilation, and communicative convenience just like other
>languages.

That is absolutely false within Europe. 
> 
>> Polish land claims against Germany were and are absurd.
>
>Possession is nine tenths of law, as they say.

Fine, then you won't complain when in some future year the areas are
reclaimed and the new residents dealt with the same way as the
original ones.




> Poland is now in possession
>of former Upper and Lower Silesia, Pomerania, and part of former East
>Prussia, and there isn't much anyone can do about it. The lands were
>originally sparsely inhabited by various Finno-Ugric and Baltic-speaking
>tribes before various *eastern* Germanic tribes such as the Goths and
>Gepids expanded into the area starting some two thousand years ago, and
>they were followed, as you note above, by the Huns and Mongols before the
>Slavs expanded into the area during the first post-Christian millennium.
>Only during the second post-Christian millennium do we see "German"
>colonial expansion, this being led by Low-German-speaking Saxons spreading
>Christianity and a "western" lifestyle, into the area. Those of the locals
>who are not killed off were subjugated as serfs to the Baltic German
>landowning and urban classes, a situation that lasted until the 19th
>century in what are now Estonia and Latvia, or forcibly assimilated, the
>Sorbs of south-eastern Germany being an interesting and unique exception.
>
>Polish land claims against Germany on the basis of certain territory being
>originally Polish are just as absurd as German land claims against Poland
>on the basis of certain territory being originally German. Poland gained
>territory from Germany as compensation for what Germany did to Poland
>during WW II

What exactly did Germany do to the murderous racist Poles? The Poles
were a minority in the artificial state known as Versailles-Poland.
They mistreated everybody else.




>; that is why Posen is now Poznan, Danzig Gdansk, and Stettin
>Szczecin.

As you said, nothing is permanent. Some future year these areas will
be returned to their rightful owners and the thieves liquidated.





>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:11 EST 2009
Article: 1980733 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber gives up the denier ghost
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:27:56 -0600, Yosarian 
wrote:

>Gord McFee wrote:
>> Another one bites the dust and the antisemite, always lurking therein,
>> comes to the fore.
>> 
>> http://www.ihr.org/weber_revisionism_jan09.html
>> 
>Well that was always a given. Scratch a Holocaust Denier and what do you 
>find? Why a Jew Hateing Antisemite.

That is total horsepucky. While some people who have trouble accepting
the holocaust™ at face value do harbour anti-Jewish sentiments, most
do not.

The holocaust™ is a political topic, and as such, should be open for
discussion without the threats, hysteria, and general intimidation
tactics used by its proponents. The very fact that the proponents feel
that threats, histrionics, and character assassination are essential
tools to defend their story, suggests very strongly that the story is
weak and in need of such desperate measures.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:11 EST 2009
Article: 1980734 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. Pressac wasn't an engineer either, so what?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:53:52 +0000 (UTC), someone-who-knows
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Not at all. Auschwitz continued to be used by your buddies the Poles
>> until 1950. You sophistically managed to dredge up a couple of camps
>> that were not, but that really doesn't prove anything nor does it
>> negate what I said.
>
>So what about the vast amounts of charred human remains in Sobibor
>and Belzec?
>
>You claim that the Poles and the Allies "murdered" many Germans
>after the war,  and you cannot show any trace of the remains of
>these alleged victims.  Yet,  you deny the well-documented Nazi
>genocide.  You're plain crazy.

You have it ass-backwards. The Polish/Soviet ethnic cleansing and
murder of the indigenous population of the eastern provinces of
Germany is 100.0% certain whereas the holocaust™ is a compendium of
tall tales about geysers of blood, jumping buckets of flesh, and
crematoria that belch flames.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:12 EST 2009
Article: 1980735 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:21:32 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/6/2009 8:08 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:37:08 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:09:49 -0500, in 
>>> , Johannes von
>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:00:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan"
>>>>  wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> 
>>>>>> Since this operation involved more than 3.5 million
>>>>>> front-line troops, it was obviously authorized by the
>>>>>> Reichstag  or there wouldn't be any money for it.
>>>>> Perhaps you are unaware of Hitler's role in the German
>>>>> military.
>>>> No, I'm not unaware of how the German government works. Hitler
>>>> may have been a dictator, but nothing he did negated the powers
>>>> of the Reichstag and Reichsrat, which controlled the purse
>>>> strings.
>>> The Reichsrat was abolished in 1934.  After July 1933, only Nazis 
>>> could be deputies to the Reichstag.
>> 
>> LOL
>> 
>> That would have been a real surprise to all the Christian Democrats 
>> who voted for NS legislation in 1934, 1935, and later.
>
>No they didn't.  Name one thing they voted for, with a reference.

They voted FOR the Enabling Act and they continued to sit in the house
after that. The Christian Democrats were also sitting in the postwar
DDR. They are nothing if not flexible.

>
>> Nothing the NS government did affected the powers of the Reichstag
>> and Reichsrat, since the constitution remained in effect. Certain
>> portions were suspended by emergency legislation
>
>They were suspended by the Ermächtigungsgesetz, which was never
>repealed.  Hence, they were suspended from 1933 to 1945.
>
>> , but not the powers of the state organs.
>
>Were subordinate to the Führer.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:12 EST 2009
Article: 1980736 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hamas treatment of Political opponents
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:54:24 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Jan 7, 3:17 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 20:12:33 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Israel is anything but a democracy.
>>
>
>I don't like democracy.  Ancient Rome was a democracy. 

Rome was never a democracy, ever. Ancient Athens was a democracy, but
it certainly had some wrinkles of its own.


> We don't have
>gladiators fighting to the death in arenas it's true.  We don't have
>slaves except for the taxpayers, who have to pay off the sharks at the
>top first.  There are two politicians contained in each politicians
>body.  The one politician sort of deals or mis-deals with issues.
>This is the person that most of the public sees.  The other does
>whatever it takes to get re-elected, get a different creamy posting,
>get appointed to the senate and get a fat pension.  This person laughs
>at us.
>Generally, we have more money than the peasants did prior to the
>French Revolution.
>We have two fundamental freedoms in Canada; the freedom to vote, and
>the freedom to do as we're told.
>Now gay people have the 'right' to get married.  Straight people also
>have the 'right' to get married.  Why is the government in the
>marriage granting racket in the first place?
>Note that it is the government that grants us these 'rights' in the
>first place.  


>Why support a group of crooks who decide what 'rights'
>they will grant the so called free citizens?  That is democracy.

People are too easy to manipulate by means of false news in the media.
If you control the media, you can get the sheeple to support anything
you want. The current USA is typical. The U.S. public gets fed lies by
the people in charge, and the naive Americans buy it. The Athenians
would never have accepted that system as democracy either.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:12 EST 2009
Article: 1980737 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bruno's Worldwide Opinion Poll
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 15:16:26 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Kurt Knoll"
> wrote:
>
>> Eugene no one can indentify the outenentie of a document unless the are 
>> allowed to see the original and not a photo copy. You should know paper ages 
>> and changes colour only an original does not lie.
>
>I know this very well. On the other hand, most researchers have to work
>with photocopies of documents for the reasons you state above. If everyone
>approached every document with total skepticism, demanding to take his or
>her own samples and run fresh forensic tests, there would soon be no
>documents. At some point we have to take the authenticity of a document as
>a given.

Your paragraph here does make some sense, but it seems strange that
only copies exist for literally thousands of documents, and often the
copies differ from one another.

>
>
>
>Regards,
>ERugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:13 EST 2009
Article: 1980756 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Weber gives up the denier ghost
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:20:17 -0600, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> Gord McFee  wrote:
>
>> On 1/7/2009 8:17 PM, Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>> 
>> > In article ,
>> > Gord McFee   wrote:
>> >> Another one bites the dust and the antisemite, always lurking therein,
>> >> comes to the fore.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.ihr.org/weber_revisionism_jan09.html
>> > 
>> > An already severely marginalized bunch of racist loons takes it on the
>> > chinny chin chin:
>> > 
>> > "This shift has also been noticed at the Institute for Historical Review.
>> > Over the past ten years, sales of IHR books, discs, flyers and other items
>> > about Holocaust history have steadily declined, along with inquiries about
>> > Holocaust history and requests for interviews on this subject."
>> > 
>> > I could have written it with more punch:
>> > 
>> > "We 'revisionists' have failed utterly to promulgate our racist message, 
>> > and have been increasingly been seen as the hate-motivated liars we are."
>> > 
>> > Feel free to use it, Mr. Weber, without attribution.
>> > 
>> > Perhaps they'll be closing soon, and starting a new White supremacist
>> > party with Greg Raven and Mark Weber as the, er, Fuehrers.
>> > 
>> > Should be good for a laugh.
>> 
>> Yes.
>> 
>> By the way, I think you wrote it *much* better.  :-)
>
>I dunno, I like:
>
>"Having been unable to convince anyone that our flat-out denial of the 
>Holocaust is the truth, we've decided to fall back on our blatant 
>anti-Semitism and call it "anti-Zionism."

Most Jews are not Semites, and most Arabs actually ARE Semites, so the
term anti-Semitism is ludicrous as a term to describe antipathy
towards Jews. In addition, Zionism and Judaism are two totally
separate things. Many Jews are themselves anti-Zionist, but not
necessary anti-Judaism.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:13 EST 2009
Article: 1980776 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:29:39 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/7/2009 3:12 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 20:04:39 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:06:00 +0000 (UTC), in 
>>> , "I'll Always
>>> Be 05/01/09"  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Gord McFee  wrote in 
>>>> news:4tg5m4dp64ge30couc90qpsm7rkfailg3f@4ax.com:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:49:39 -0500, in 
>>>>> , Johannes von
>>>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:05:23 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi
>>>>>> (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In article <1jsvl4dkhlairhvs3dfgbcf84kcnfa38o0@4ax.com>, 
>>>>>>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:35:13 +0000 (UTC), "I'll Always Be
>>>>>>>> 03/01/09"  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Oh, you mean the german concept of "lebensraum"?
>>>>>>>> That is an allied fabrication.
>>>>>>> How so?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hitler started to expand the Reich with the Anschluß of
>>>>>>> Austria
>>>>>> Austria has been part of Germany since the ninth century. It
>>>>>> has it own resident population, so the concept of Lebensraum
>>>>>> hardly applies. Austria was a separate state because of
>>>>>> Versailles.
>>>>> No, it was a separate state long before Versailles.
>>>> Strange that he's never heard of Austro-Hungary
>>> Or the Congress of Vienna!
>> 
>> The city is Wien and always was. Austro-Hungary has never existed.
>> The so-called Congress of Vienna did happen but is totally irrelevant
>> to the topic at hand.
>
>You could not possibly have better demonstrated your complete ignorance
>on this subject.  Thanks.

LOL

No Gordie, I was just using a little sarcasm to show your complete
ignorance of German and European history. To me, Gordon McFee is a
synonym for clueless jackass.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:13 EST 2009
Article: 1980803 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cross Examination. Accurate Verbal Testimony. Whips gassing version. 4 min to kill and 8 min to open the door.
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:26:19 +0100, Zulu  wrote:

>B.H. Cramer escribió:
>> 
>> "Zulu"  wrote in message 
>> news:gjr3fl$hef$1@news.motzarella.org...
>>> Gord McFee escribió:
>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 00:51:43 +0100, in
>
>>>> ..... We were all so trained to obey orders without even thinking that
>>>> the thought of disobeying an order would never have occurred to
>>>> anybody. 
>>>>
>>>> http://www.adl.org/education/dimensions_19/section2/testimonies.asp
>>>>
>>>>> His testimony is SO accurate....
>>>>
>>>> Indeed it is.
>>>
>>> You believe it is, you are a true BELIEVER.
>>>
>>> Just a point.
>>>
>>> Why did Hoess tell about only 1 introduction hole for the zyclon B 
>>> whilst the dogma tells there were 4?
>>>
>>> BTW. No "wire mesh columns of introduction" on his tale...
>> 
>> He couldn't remember the script?
>> 
>
>I am afraid that the "right script" was written AFTER the war by making something 
>with the mix of the numerous versions available and a minimum of technical credibility...
>
>THat is the reason which explains that Nuremberg we have several and various versions 
>according the the fantasy of the talkers.
>
>For instance, that "version" doesn't tell neither about a supposed "undressing room" 
>nor about "fake showers" to make the victims enter peacefully into the "gas chambers"
>
>The victims stripped "in front of the gas chamber" and whips were used to drive them 
>)through the 1 m wide door) into the underground "gas chamber".
>
>The total Time mentioned of 12 min, including 4 to kill and 8 to the ventilation, is 
>quite the record registered in "gassing operations".
>
>
>
>GENERAL R. A. RUDENKO (Chief Prosecutor for the U.S.SR.)
>
>I will now quote an extract of the appeal to the public opinion of the world from the 
>representatives of several thousand former internees at Auschwitz:
>
>"The gassing of unbelievable numbers of people took place upon the arrival of 
>transports from various countries: France, Belgium, Holland, Greece, Italy, Hungary, 
>Czechoslovakia, Germany, Poland, the U.S.S.R., Norway, and others. The new arrivals 
>had to pass before an SS doctor or else before the SS commandant of the camp. The 
>latter pointed his finger to the right or left. The left meant death by gas. Out of a 
>transport of 1,500, an average of 1,200 to 1,300 were immediately to be gassed. 
>Rarely the quota of people sent into the camp was a little higher. It often occurred 
>that the SS doctors Mengele and Thilo performed this selection while whistling a 
>lively tune. The people destined to be gassed were obliged to strip in front of the 
>gas-chambers, after which they were driven with whips into the gas-chambers. Then the 
>door of the underground gas-chamber was closed, and the people were gassed. Death 
>occurred approximately 4 minutes later. After 8 minutes the gas chamber was opened, 
>and workmen belonging to a special commando, the so-called Sonderkommando, 
>transported the bodies to the cremation ovens which burned day and night.
>
>"There was a shortage of ovens at the time of the arrival of transports from Hungary; 
>consequently enormous ditches were dug for the purpose of cremating the bodies. Fires 
>made of wood soaked in gasoline were laid in these ditches and the bodies were thrown 
>into them. However, the SS men frequently hurled live children and adults into those 
>ditches, where these unhappy victims died a terrible death. To save gasoline, the 
>fats and oils necessary for cremations were partly derived
>
>174
>
>8 Feb. 46
>
>from the bodies of gassed people. Fats and oils for technical purposes and for the 
>manufacture of soap were also obtained from the corpses.
>
>The appeal ends with the following words:
>
>"Together with 10,000 rescued inmates of all nationalities, we demand that the crimes 
>and the inconceivable atrocities of the Hitlerites should not remain unpunished."

Inconceivable is definitely the operative word here, not to mention
terms such as improbable and incredible.

>
>This just demand is supported by the entire civilized world and by all freedom-loving 
>people. The organized mass annihilation of prisoners of war constitutes one of the 
>vilest crimes of the Hitlerite conspirators.
>
>
>
>http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/02-08-46.asp


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:14 EST 2009
Article: 1980968 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:10:30 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:50:36 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> >
>> >Today's speakers of Germanic languages, particularly the larger ones
>> >English, German, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, and Afrikaans, also
>> >have large bodies of speakers representing every race under the sun. There
>> >is and never was a "Germanic type", since Germanic languages have spread
>> >by conquest, assimilation, and communicative convenience just like other
>> >languages.
>> 
>> That is absolutely false within Europe. 
>
>Well, many historical linguists regard Germanic as having originated as a
>contact-language, also known as a pidgin that became a creole, as a
>consequence of the imperfect efforts of the hunting and gathering speakers
>of an older, pre-Indo-European substrate language, to learn the language
>of culturally more advanced Indo-European-speaking agriculturalists
>entering what are now northern Germany and Poland from the south. This
>would explain the systematic series of mispronunciations known as the
>Germanic Sound Shift (die erste Lautverschiebung, das Grimms'che Gesetz),
>the drastic restructuring of the Indo-European vowel system, the radical
>simplification of the morphological system, as well as the large stock of
>non-Indo-European words of substrate language origin in Proto-Germanic.
>Thus, right from the start, Germanic was a language spoken by ethnically
>distinct and thus heterogeneous groups of people.
>
>The predecessors of language that we call German today spread to
>territories where the older inhabitants spoke Celtic, Romance, Baltic,
>Finno-Ugric, and Slavic languages during the past two millennia. These
>people represented a variety of anthropological types. Restricting
>ourselves to Germany proper, the "typical" Swabian is quite different from
>the "typical" Holsteiner, Prussian, or Bavarian.   If we extend our survey
>to the perimeter of the European Germanic-speaking world, the "typical"
>Englishman, Scot, Swede, Alsatian, Tyrolian, or Austrian represent quite
>different anthropological types and arguably have more in common with
>their substrate Celtic, Finno-Ugric, Slavic, northern Italian, and Magyar
>neighbors than they have with each other.
>
>The Nazis' idea of an ideal, racially "pure" Nordic Germanic type is pure
>hogwash, particularly since Sweden, the "mother of nations", was mostly
>inhabited by Finno-Ugric speakers before Germanic cultural and linguistic
>expansion during the first pre-Christian millennium.
>

LOL

Did you fabricate all this stuff yourself? It pretty much contradicts
all the experts. You're a funny man, Holman.

>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:14 EST 2009
Article: 1981262 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie. A PROOF that morgues were fumigated at Kremas. HCN traces explained.
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:52:51 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:10:30 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>> 
>
>> >
>> >Well, many historical linguists regard Germanic as having originated as a
>> >contact-language, also known as a pidgin that became a creole, as a
>> >consequence of the imperfect efforts of the hunting and gathering speakers
>> >of an older, pre-Indo-European substrate language, to learn the language
>> >of culturally more advanced Indo-European-speaking agriculturalists
>> >entering what are now northern Germany and Poland from the south. This
>> >would explain the systematic series of mispronunciations known as the
>> >Germanic Sound Shift (die erste Lautverschiebung, das Grimms'che Gesetz),
>> >the drastic restructuring of the Indo-European vowel system, the radical
>> >simplification of the morphological system, as well as the large stock of
>> >non-Indo-European words of substrate language origin in Proto-Germanic.
>> >Thus, right from the start, Germanic was a language spoken by ethnically
>> >distinct and thus heterogeneous groups of people.
>> >
>> >The predecessors of language that we call German today spread to
>> >territories where the older inhabitants spoke Celtic, Romance, Baltic,
>> >Finno-Ugric, and Slavic languages during the past two millennia. These
>> >people represented a variety of anthropological types. Restricting
>> >ourselves to Germany proper, the "typical" Swabian is quite different from
>> >the "typical" Holsteiner, Prussian, or Bavarian.   If we extend our survey
>> >to the perimeter of the European Germanic-speaking world, the "typical"
>> >Englishman, Scot, Swede, Alsatian, Tyrolian, or Austrian represent quite
>> >different anthropological types and arguably have more in common with
>> >their substrate Celtic, Finno-Ugric, Slavic, northern Italian, and Magyar
>> >neighbors than they have with each other.
>> >
>> >The Nazis' idea of an ideal, racially "pure" Nordic Germanic type is pure
>> >hogwash, particularly since Sweden, the "mother of nations", was mostly
>> >inhabited by Finno-Ugric speakers before Germanic cultural and linguistic
>> >expansion during the first pre-Christian millennium.
>> >
>> 
>> LOL
>> 
>> Did you fabricate all this stuff yourself? 
>
>No, I have done acadenic research in this area. Finno-Ugric is
>pre-Indo-European, and Indo-European cultural expansion of the Baltic,
>Slavic, and Germanic languages in north-eastern Europe has taken place at
>the expense of Finno-Ugric.
>
>> It pretty much contradicts all the experts. 
>
>How do your experts explain the undeniable fact that Proto-Germanic is a
>radically modified and simplified dialect of Indo-European?

Supposedly, modern German is one of the closest languages to the
original Indo-European.

>
>> You're a funny man, Holman.
>
>I can back up every claim I made with references to thw writings of
>experts in historical linguistics. Who are your experts?

I've read quite a few books on this topic, and your stuff is totally
alien to what others have found.

You are clearly just another anti-German bigot, and it is quite
obvious that for you anything German is bad, substandard, or of little
value. You talk about German people the same way that KKK types talk
about Blacks. This level of insane bigotry must come from your
American background.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:14 EST 2009
Article: 1981263 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:01:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/8/2009 12:21 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:38:26 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:31:03 -0500, in
>>> <4it7m4p9e0jmj9bi0d5l4jifrkca3nqik1@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> [a troll which has been deleted]
>> 
>> The principal trolls on this newsgroup are Gordie McFool and Kenny
>> McFuck. Is there some genetic problem among Scots that results in IQs
>> smaller than their shoe-sizes?
>
>I think you just proved who the troll is here.

You're a funny man, Gordie.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:15 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/8/2009 12:27 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:21:32 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/6/2009 8:08 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:37:08 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:09:49 -0500, in 
>>>>> , Johannes von 
>>>>> Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:00:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> [...]
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Since this operation involved more than 3.5 million 
>>>>>>>> front-line troops, it was obviously authorized by the 
>>>>>>>> Reichstag  or there wouldn't be any money for it.
>>>>>>> Perhaps you are unaware of Hitler's role in the German 
>>>>>>> military.
>>>>>> No, I'm not unaware of how the German government works.
>>>>>> Hitler may have been a dictator, but nothing he did negated
>>>>>> the powers of the Reichstag and Reichsrat, which controlled
>>>>>> the purse strings.
>>>>> The Reichsrat was abolished in 1934.  After July 1933, only
>>>>> Nazis could be deputies to the Reichstag.
>>>> LOL
>>>> 
>>>> That would have been a real surprise to all the Christian
>>>> Democrats who voted for NS legislation in 1934, 1935, and later.
>>> 
>>> No they didn't.  Name one thing they voted for, with a reference.
>> 
>> They voted FOR the Enabling Act and they continued to sit in the
>> house after that.
>
>I have tried to be gentle with you, but you are so stupid, I can't
>anymore.  You are obviously an illiterate and vulgar troll.
>
>As anyone even remotely familiar with the facts knows, there was *no"
>Christian Democratic party in the Reichstag.

Oh get off the pot, you fucking simpleton. The Enabling Act passed by
a vote of 441 to 94. The only opposition was from the Communists and
Social Democrats (that is the 94), and there were nowhere near 441
Nazi deputies in the house. All parties, except the socialists,
supported the Enabling Act.

With this latest blunder on your part, I can safely dismiss everything
you have ever said on this newsgroup as horsepucky. My education is
much better than yours, I'm anything but illiterate, and if anybody is
a vulgar troll, it is you and your pack of hyenas.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_political_parties
>
>[...]
>
>Dismissed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:15 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was soll unter "palaestinensischem Land" zu verstehen sein?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 21:20:15 +0100, Ingo Gideon Becker
 wrote:

>Am Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:00:24 GMT schrieb Kurt Knoll:
>
>> Was ist überig von Palestina.
>
>Wovon? Was soll palästinensisches Land sein?

Was soll Israelisches Land sein? Die Bevölkerung Israels besteht
hauptsächlich aus Russen and Polen. Die haben bestimmt kein Recht auf
Land in Palestina. Sie sind nur Räuber and Piraten.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:15 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was soll unter "palaestinensischem Land" zu verstehen sein?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:48:30 +0100, Norbert Müller
 wrote:

>Kurt Knoll schrieb:
>> "Ingo Gideon Becker"  wrote in
>> message news:oeqmxhvie2h0.11ixii36huwh5.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> Am Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:23:26 -0800 (PST) schrieb rootless
>>> cosmopolitan (jan perlwitz):
>>>
>>>> Herrlich, wie merkbefreit das Knoll ist.
>>>
>>> Knoll hat es dreifach schwer:
>>>
>>> Er ist bar jeglichen sprachlichen Verständnisses.
>>> Er ist ein elender Faschist.
>>> Er ist ein Fall für die Geronto-Psychatrie
>>>
>> Was gibt es sonst noch neues. Ihr waret schon immer die meister Lügner
>> Geschichte verdrehter und andere aus zu schmieren weltweit bekannt.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>
>Die ärgsten Geschichteverdreher sind die Nazis,

Die Nazis sind echte Waisenkinder gegen die Raubtiere die gegenwärtig
in Israel walten.





> Knolli, drum muß man auf sie 
>besonders aufpassen, dass sie keinen Schaden mehr anrichten können. Einmal 
>war genug!
>
>
>mfg, NM 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:16 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was soll unter "palaestinensischem Land" zu verstehen sein?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:27:05 +0100, Norbert Müller
 wrote:

>Kurt Knoll schrieb:
>> Look whats left of palestine. Was ist überig von Palestina.
>> Kurt Knoll
>>
>>
>> http://www.initiative.cc/Artikelfotos/Israel01.jpg
>
>
>Jordanien gehört auch zu Palästina, das wurde schon aufgeteilt. Rechne es 
>mal hinzu!

Jah, das ist aber wunderbar. Franzosen and Deutsche sind beide
europäische Völker, aber niemand würde sich freuen wenn eine
nicht-europäische Gruppe die Franzosen vertreiben und auf Deutschland
absetzen würde. 

Deine Behauptung ist alte israelische Propaganda. Vertreibungen können
einfach nicht unterstützt werden, wenn man sich weiter als Mensch
betrachten will.


>
>
>NM 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:16 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
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On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:37:18 -0800 (PST), Calimero 
wrote:

>On Jan 10, 12:34 am, "."  wrote:
>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>> curriculum.
>
>
>Why not?
>It is quite valuable to know the history of your country.

It isn't the "history" of the country, except in the eyes of the
enemies of Germany. These cult sites should be paved over and made
into shopping centres, the way they would have been long ago already
in the USA.

>
>
>"Dubya" Calimero


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:17 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:52:34 +0100, Lars Bräsicke 
wrote:

>A very little . wrote:
>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>> curriculum.
>
>Why should children hate themselves?
>Because of their knowledge of history?
>
>So I assume thou dost not hate thyself, dost thou?
>Because of thy lack of any knowledge ...
>
>Thou art really a little dot.
>
>Lars

They have been subjected to a relentless barrage of destructive
propaganda to the effect that everything German is bad by definition.
Actually, people are starting to reject the "reeducation" crap.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:17 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:56:32 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Well Lars did you know the commander of Dachau was charge with starving the 
>prisoners. He did have the right answer. It was the allied who did bomb the 
>railing into the camp so no food could get in there.

The allies also extensively starved prisoners, but they do not have
the excuses of damaged railway tracks or food shortages. Allied
starvation was planned, deliberate abuse and mass murder.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Lars Bräsicke"  wrote in message 
>news:6sq69uF7mhikU1@mid.individual.net...
>>A very little . wrote:
>>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>>> curriculum.
>>
>> Why should children hate themselves?
>> Because of their knowledge of history?
>>
>> So I assume thou dost not hate thyself, dost thou?
>> Because of thy lack of any knowledge ...
>>
>> Thou art really a little dot.
>>
>> Lars 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:17 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:40:52 +0100, Zulu  wrote:

>. escribió:
>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>> curriculum.
>> 
>> http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=86792
>
>Is a tour to Gaza included?

Indeed! Both Gaza and the West Bank have been giant concentration
camps for the last sixty years.


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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:01:37 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 09/01/09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B8EC45CEF559Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in 
>> news:gcT9l.4050$Db2.1391@edtnps83:
>>
>>>
>>> "."  wrote in message
>>> news:b3e73158-4c95-4eca-b477-0e47b05f4edc@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>>>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>>>> curriculum.
>>>>
>>>> http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=86792
>>>
>>> Are they allowed to ask questions.
>>> kk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Were you allowed to ask questions when you lived under hitler?

Naturally you could ask questions, on the same basis as in postwar
Germany, as long as you don't contradict the powers that be.

>Sure did answer question why not.
>kk
>


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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:53:16 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"."  wrote in message 
>news:b3e73158-4c95-4eca-b477-0e47b05f4edc@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>> curriculum.
>>
>> http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=86792
>
>Are they allowed to ask questions.

They can ask questions, as long as the questions don't produce the
impression that the questioner might doubt what is being presented. If
the questioner expresses doubt, he/she could very well face legal
problems in allegedly "democratic" Germany.

>kk
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:18 EST 2009
Article: 1981301 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:00:10 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 09/01/09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B8EC48AAA93ATheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:kfT9l.4052$Db2.2137@edtnps83:
>>
>>> Well Lars did you know the commander of Dachau was charge with starving
>>> the prisoners.
>>
>> Yes, he was
>>
>> He did have the right answer. It was the allied who did
>>> bomb the railing into the camp so no food could get in there.
>>
>>
>> Yet all of the germans in and around the camp were well fed. How do you
>> explain that?
>>
>Have you seen them I did look like a Skelton and so did the others.

"I'll always be" is just a silly jackass. There isn't much point to
responding to his crap.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Lars Bräsicke"  wrote in message
>>> news:6sq69uF7mhikU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>A very little . wrote:
>>>>> Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>>>>> of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>>>>> curriculum.
>>>>
>>>> Why should children hate themselves?
>>>> Because of their knowledge of history?
>>>>
>>>> So I assume thou dost not hate thyself, dost thou?
>>>> Because of thy lack of any knowledge ...
>>>>
>>>> Thou art really a little dot.
>>>>
>>>> Lars
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:19 EST 2009
Article: 1981399 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rocket, Mortar and Suicide BomB Attacks on Israel From Gaza
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On Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:47:30 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>The Jews are the oppressors. Just look at the cat and mouse game they mouse
>to get the Palestinians exited. Lets also not forget most of the news about
>Palestine is coming from Israel. Certainly it is censored first.

It was a series of deliberate provocations by Sharon, may he rot in
peace, that set off the second Intifada.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"I'll Always Be 09/01/09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B8E8128169ECTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:qqJ9l.4046$PH1.3655@edtnps82:
>>
>>> The Jews are the oppressors.
>>
>> Can you prove it?
>>
>>
>> Just look at the cat and mouse game they
>>> mouse to get the Palestinians exited. Lets also not forget most of the
>>> news about Palestine is coming from Israel.
>>
>> Can you prove it?
>>
>>
>> Certainly it is censored
>>> first. Kurt Knoll.
>>
>>
>> You think?
>>
>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:19 EST 2009
Article: 1981415 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Every German child to be taught to hate themselves
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 9 Jan 2009 15:34:24 -0800 (PST), "."
 wrote:

>Bavaria, Germany - German children will be obliged to visit the site
>of a Nazi concentration camp as part of their regular school
>curriculum.
>
>http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=86792

The vast bulk of injured police officials have been injured by leftist
demonstrators and rioters. This program will fail and is a waste of
valuable teaching time. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:20 EST 2009
Article: 1981817 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kraut Buggers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:37:25 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>Tonight I ran into a kraut.  I wish I hadn't.  She's down where I went
>for some Chinese takeout.  So I start talking to her in German.
>Better German than what she had.  I can speak a pretty good simple
>German if I put my mind to it.  So like we're rappin.  She's from East
>Prussia.  Then I drop the bomb and say that my folks are ethnic
>Germans from Hungary.  Needless to say the conversation stopped
>immediately.  Them Krauts think that every ethnic German from Hungary
>is a Gypsy.  Little do they know that German was the official language
>in Hungary for many years.  So was Latin.  Up with Krauts.  I got no
>use for them right now.  They aren't fit to polish the ass of 'I'll
>Always Be Whatever'.
>Fuckin' Krauts.  Up them yo-yos.

In all fairness, the people have been fed allied misinformation for
decades and no longer know or understand their own history.

I assume here that you are from Sieben Bürgen, called Transylvania in
English?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:20 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter's Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:24:26 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/10/2009 6:47 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:13:35 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 1/8/2009 12:27 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:21:32 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/6/2009 8:08 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:37:08 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:09:49 -0500, in 
>>>>>>> , Johannes von
>>>>>>>  Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:00:46 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Since this operation involved more than 3.5 million 
>>>>>>>>>> front-line troops, it was obviously authorized by the
>>>>>>>>>>  Reichstag  or there wouldn't be any money for it.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you are unaware of Hitler's role in the German
>>>>>>>>>  military.
>>>>>>>> No, I'm not unaware of how the German government works. 
>>>>>>>> Hitler may have been a dictator, but nothing he did
>>>>>>>> negated the powers of the Reichstag and Reichsrat, which
>>>>>>>> controlled the purse strings.
>>>>>>> The Reichsrat was abolished in 1934.  After July 1933, only
>>>>>>>  Nazis could be deputies to the Reichstag.
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That would have been a real surprise to all the Christian 
>>>>>> Democrats who voted for NS legislation in 1934, 1935, and
>>>>>> later.
>>>>> No they didn't.  Name one thing they voted for, with a
>>>>> reference.
>>>> They voted FOR the Enabling Act and they continued to sit in the 
>>>> house after that.
>>> I have tried to be gentle with you, but you are so stupid, I can't 
>>> anymore.  You are obviously an illiterate and vulgar troll.
>>> 
>>> As anyone even remotely familiar with the facts knows, there was
>>> *no" Christian Democratic party in the Reichstag.
>
>[juvenile troll deleted]
>
>The fact remains, Mr Moron, that here was *no* Christian Democratic
>party in the Reichstag.

You wouldn't know a fact if it were to fall on you, simpleton.

>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_political_parties


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:20 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:08:01 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Neil
>Harrington"  wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>> news:holman-0901090703190001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> >
>> > Cyanide generated by Zyklon-B. Entire ships and factory halls were
>> > fumigated using the same method, so there is no technical problem here,
>> 
>> I think there are plenty of problems there, technical and otherwise. 
>
>There aren't. Zyklon-B was designed to be used specifically for this
>purpose by a trained exterminator.

It wasn't intended or designed to kill people. It was designed and
intended as an insecticide.

>
>> But just dealing with this one -- you say:
>> 
>> > The Nazis perfected the methodology for carrying out mass gassings within
>> > the framework of the T-4 euthanasia program.
>> 
>> According to the stories, the "mass gassings" of Jews et al. in "Nazi gas
>> chambers" was done 2,000 at a time. 
>
>Not always in batches that large, but so what. Comsidering that most of
>the victims were womenm, children, infants, and frail elderly people, that
>is four to six rush-hour packed subway cars full. Do you really find the
>prospect of generating a concentration of cyanide somehwat in excess of
>300 ppm in a volume the size of four to six subway cars so difficult?
>
>> I'm pointing out that unless the T4
>> program killed comparably large "batches" of people simultaneously, the idea
>> that its methodology could have served in concentration camps as well does
>> not seem at all reasonable. 
>
>Why? The T-4 program typically killed people in batches of about 25. Once
>the method had been perfected, a trained exterminator could calculate how
>much Zyklon-B was needed to attaim a lethal concentration in an enclosure
>of a specific volume. Zyklon-B had been designed specifically for this
>purpose, and training in its use involved solving equations with the
>relevant variables.
>
>> But there are far bigger problems with the story
>> than that.
>
>What you mentioned is not a problem. Any professional exterminator has to
>know how to calculate the appropriate amount of poison to apply to a
>target of specfic volume. Zyklon-B was used to fumigate premises as large
>as ship holds and factory halls, and as small as tents and branches of
>trees wrapped in oilcloth.
> 
>> > especially considering that most of the people gassed were those
>> > considered incapable of work: small children, women with infants in their
>> > arms, and frail elderly people. A single New York City subway car can
>> > accommodate 250 adults, so the floor space of eight such cars, one train,
>> > would accommodate 2,000 adults, fully clothed and some of them sitting.
>> > Perhaps half to three quarters as much space, four to six subway cars,
>> > would be sufficient to accommodate 2,000 small children, women with
>> > infants in their arms, and frail elderly people, naked and all standing.
>> >
>> > 
>> 
>> Here's another problem with the story that I haven't seen touched on here:
>> 
>> Zyklon B was designed to kill insects. The metabolism of insects is entirely
>> different from that of warm-blooded animals such as humans. In the inactive
>> state, and with larva, insects do not require oxygen, do not breathe as
>> humans do, and therefore are relatively hard to kill with cyanide gas.
>> 
>> You have pointed out yourself that this is so, many times.
>> 
>> This was the whole raison d'être for Zyklon B, wasn't it -- it was
>> specifically designed to release the cyanide gas SLOWLY, over a period of
>> several hours, because it takes a long period of high concentrations of
>> cyanide to kill the insects. 
>
>Quite the opposite. It was designed to release cyanide quite robustly,
>because killing the insects and other vermin required attaining and
>maintaining a lethally high concentration for as long as 72 hours. R.
>Irmscher's 1942 research paper on the release of cyanide from Zyklon-B
>using various carriers at different temperatures demonstrates quite
>clearly that more than half of the cyanide impregnated in the carrier,
>whether cardboard disks or erco cubes, is released within the first hour
>at a room temperature of 15°C, with an even more rapid rate of release to
>be expected at higher room temperatures
>[http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.en]. 
>
>> That is exactly the OPPOSITE mechanism that you
>> would want to use if the object were to kill human beings. You would want to
>> get all the gas released immediately, or as quickly as possible. You claim
>> "ten to fifteen minutes" to kill human beings with cyanide gas -- but after
>> that period of time the Zyklon B pellets would still be outgassing, and
>> would continue to do so long after the victims were dead.
>
>A trained exterminator could figure out how much Zyklon-B would be
>necessary to rapidly reach a concentration somewhat in excess of the 300
>ppm needed to kill people, given the temprature and volume of the chamber
>concerned.
> 
>> The pellets would still be releasing poison gas while (according to the
>> Holocaust stories) the sonderkommandos would be going in and out of the gas
>> chamber, wearing NO GAS MASKS and NO PROTECTIVE CLOTHING, hauling out the
>> corpses. 
>
>The first Sonderkommando members to enter the chamber did have gas masks,
>according to testimony given by surviving Sonderkommando members. But
>that's not really the point. Accounts that we have of the gassing, such as
>Hoess's, indicate that the gas chamber was ventilated for at least half an
>hour before the door was opened and body removal started. Cyanide
>dissipates rapidly in the ambient air, and Kremas II and III at
>Auschwitz-Birkenau had robust aeration (Belüftung) and ventilation
>(Entlüftung) systems. Once again, a competent exterminator would know how
>much cyanide was necessary to reach a concentration lethal to humans in an
>enclosure of a given volume and with air of a given temperature, how
>quickly the cyanide was outgassed from the Zyklon-B, and how long it would
>take to replace the cyanide-laden air, given the capacity of the
>ventilation and aeration systems. So precise was this knowledge that the
>designers of Kremas IV amd V found that they could dispense with the
>aeration and ventilation systems altogether and dissipate the cyanide by
>cross vemnilation.
>
>You must also remember that the Sonderkommandos were expendable work force.
>
>> To haul out 2,000 corpses must take a considerable period of time.
>> Even if the sonderkommando crew, working feverishly, could drag out ten
>> corpses per minute (one every six seconds without pause, which seems rather
>> unlikely), 
>
>Many were infants and small children...
>
>> the job would take more than three hours to complete. More than
>> THREE HOURS, going without any protection in and out of the room still
>> filled with cyanide gas at lethal levels, the gas being continuously
>> replenished by the outgassing Zyklon B pellets!
>
>No. If an amount of Zyklon-B is used that will only produce a
>concentration of cyanide, say, twice the lethal concentration, most of the
>cyanide will have been outgassed within the first half an hour. With an
>additional half hour of ventilation, the amount of cyanide remaining in
>the chamber would be well below the 300 ppm needed to kill people. Once
>again, every fire department in the world has the expertise necessary to
>deal quickly with cyanide accidents involving conventrations slightly over
>the lethal limit. 
> 
>> Does any of that seem believable or even possible to you, Eugene?
>> 
>> Why would the Nazis employ such an inefficient and impractical method in the
>> first place?
>
>Because your comments show that you do not undertand the advantages.
>
>Between June 22, 1941 and the end of that year the Nazis' preferred
>methodology for implementing genocide was mass shooting operations.
>SS-Obergruppenführer Friedrich Jeckeln perfected a methodology for
>implementing mass shooting where the victims buried themselves before
>being shot, *Sardinenpackung*, which made it possible to kill as many as
>12,000 a day, as happened at Babi Yar, Rumbula, and elsewhere along the
>eastern front. However, making the preliminary arrangements, getting the
>people and ammunition to the killing site, dealing with stragglers,
>would-be escapees, panic, and eyewitnesses, drawing as little attention to
>the operation as possible, cleaning up afterwards, dealing with problems
>of personal responsibility and public relations, and the psychological
>impact on the gunmen of spending day after day shooting unarmed men,
>women, children, and elderly people convinced Jeckeln, Himmler, Eichmann,
>and other top Nazis that this was not the way to go. In A. Ezergailis's
>book *The Holocaust in Latvia: 1941-1944* he notes that news of the
>Rumbula massacre on November 30, 1941, was broadcast on the BBC, Radio
>Sweden, and Radio Moscow on that very evening, and that it was a primary
>topic of discussion among the inhabitants of Nazi-occupied Riga, who had
>no way of knowing whether they, as non-Aryans, might eventually be
>subjected to similar treatment.
>
>Work on more discrete facilities using gas chambers was begun during the
>fall of 1941, and the pilot extermination camp, Chelmno, opened for
>business on December 6, 1941. The methodology used there, pumping the
>exhaust gas from the internal combustion enghines of the mobile gas
>chambers used to transport prisoners into the sealed compartment where
>they were, gassing them during the journey from the camp to the mass
>graves, demonstrated itself to be inefficient. Input from the experience
>gained killing batches of people within the framework of the T-4 program
>was used to improve the methodology, and the onstruction of the three
>Aktion Reinhard camps, Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka, began the following
>year, as did work on gas chambers at Auschwitz, Auschwitz-Birkenau, and
>Majdanek. 
>
>
>> WHY WOULD THEY USE ZYKLON B?
>
>Because it did the job, was cheap, efficient, and universally available,
>thus allowing the possibility of denial.
>
>> If they wanted to kill people with hydrogen cyanide gas, why not produce it
>> on the spot, the way it's done in execution gas chambers in the U.S.? 
>
>Because the US method is wasteful, inefficient, and dangerous. Why use a
>concentration of 8,000 to 10,000 ppm when a concentration of 600 ppm will
>suffice to do the job? Why use a hi-tech gas chamber that requires all
>kinds of engineering safety features and other paraphernalia when a large,
>sturdily built room with an air-tight door and robust aeration and
>ventilation system, or windows designed for thorough cross ventilation,
>will do the job? Why use a method that has a specific person assume the
>role of excutioner, when the killing can be done collectively with no
>person identifiable has being personally responsible?
>
>> It's
>> extremely easy to do. Sodium cyanide is dumped into dilute sulfuric acid,
>> and you get as much cyanide gas as you want, immediately. 
>
>Actually, you get far more cyanide than you need. American executions with
>cyanide have to ensure that the victim is not subjected to "crue and
>unusual punishment", hence a quantity of gas far in excess of what is
>needed to kill is used to ensure that the excutee loses consciousness as
>quickly as possible. The Nazis were not subject to such constitutional
>constraints.
>
>> No need to
>> manufacture the HCN somewhere else and then go through all the bother of
>> getting it into slow-release pellets, which are the last thing you'd want to
>> use for killing people.
>
>The Americans execute overtly, so ordering consignments of sodium cyanide
>for executions does not raise any eyebrows. The Nazis were killing
>covertly and going to considerable lengths to cover their tracks and
>prevent a paper trail from accumulating. Diverting a small percentage of
>the Zyklon-B that was on hand at every concentration camp for purposes of
>mass execution would hardly be noticed. Nor, as Dr. Irmscher's tables
>show, were Zyklon-B pellets "slow release", quite the opposite.
>
>> The more closely you look at it, the more ridiculous the "Nazi gas chambers"
>> story becomes.
>
>Not at all. The more you think about, the cleverer the Nazi low-tech
>covert gas chamber reveals itself to be: you simply emulate the conditions
>obtaining during  a lethal gassing accident using a cheap, effective,
>lethal, easily controlled, and readily available fumigant.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:21 EST 2009
Article: 1983088 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kraut Buggers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:09:21 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Jan 12, 7:58 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:37:25 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >Tonight I ran into a kraut.  I wish I hadn't.  She's down where I went
>> >for some Chinese takeout.  So I start talking to her in German.
>> >Better German than what she had.  I can speak a pretty good simple
>> >German if I put my mind to it.  So like we're rappin.  She's from East
>> >Prussia.  Then I drop the bomb and say that my folks are ethnic
>> >Germans from Hungary.  Needless to say the conversation stopped
>> >immediately.  Them Krauts think that every ethnic German from Hungary
>> >is a Gypsy.  Little do they know that German was the official language
>> >in Hungary for many years.  So was Latin.  Up with Krauts.  I got no
>> >use for them right now.  They aren't fit to polish the ass of 'I'll
>> >Always Be Whatever'.
>> >Fuckin' Krauts.  Up them yo-yos.
>>
>> In all fairness, the people have been fed allied misinformation for
>> decades and no longer know or understand their own history.
>>
>> I assume here that you are from Sieben Bürgen, called Transylvania in
>> English?
>
>I'm from Canada.  My folks are all from 'Schwabian Turkey' in Hungary,
>in the county of Somodgy.
>Krauts are OK again today, but I've been called a Gypsy ever since I
>was a kid growing up with 'real' Germans.  We call ethnic Germans from
>Transylvania 'Saxons.'  Whether they originated from Saxony, I don't
>know.

The Transylvania group came from a variety of places in Germany. I'm
not at all sure how the "Saxon" terminology got started.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:22 EST 2009
Article: 1983091 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kraut Buggers
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:06:36 -0800 (PST), Ozimandius
 wrote:

>On Jan 13, 12:09 am, Bent Attorney  wrote:
>> On Jan 12, 7:58 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:37:25 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
>>
>> >  wrote:
>> > >Tonight I ran into a kraut.  I wish I hadn't.  She's down where I went
>> > >for some Chinese takeout.  So I start talking to her in German.
>> > >Better German than what she had.  I can speak a pretty good simple
>> > >German if I put my mind to it.  So like we're rappin.  She's from East
>> > >Prussia.  Then I drop the bomb and say that my folks are ethnic
>> > >Germans from Hungary.  Needless to say the conversation stopped
>> > >immediately.  Them Krauts think that every ethnic German from Hungary
>> > >is a Gypsy.  Little do they know that German was the official language
>> > >in Hungary for many years.  So was Latin.  Up with Krauts.  I got no
>> > >use for them right now.  They aren't fit to polish the ass of 'I'll
>> > >Always Be Whatever'.
>> > >Fuckin' Krauts.  Up them yo-yos.
>>
>> > In all fairness, the people have been fed allied misinformation for
>> > decades and no longer know or understand their own history.
>>
>> > I assume here that you are from Sieben Bürgen, called Transylvania in
>> > English?
>>
>> I'm from Canada.  My folks are all from 'Schwabian Turkey' in Hungary,
>> in the county of Somodgy.
>> Krauts are OK again today, but I've been called a Gypsy ever since I
>> was a kid growing up with 'real' Germans.  We call ethnic Germans from
>> Transylvania 'Saxons.'  Whether they originated from Saxony, I don't
>> know.
>
>Germans have plenty of Hun blood if you read history.

Aside from silly British propaganda, Germans have no connection with
Huns at all. If they had, then the British would themselves be Huns,
since they settled Britain starting around AD 600, quite some time
after the Huns were defeated at Chalons by the Germanic Franks.

>The blond ones
>are probably not but the rest for sure.

Like most of the Germanophobic bunch on this newsgroup, you are full
of shit.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:22 EST 2009
Article: 1983092 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kraut Buggers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:23:03 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Jan 12, 10:06 am, Ozimandius  wrote:
>> On Jan 13, 12:09 am, Bent Attorney  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 12, 7:58 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:37:25 -0800 (PST), Bent Attorney
>>
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > >Tonight I ran into a kraut.  I wish I hadn't.  She's down where I went
>> > > >for some Chinese takeout.  So I start talking to her in German.
>> > > >Better German than what she had.  I can speak a pretty good simple
>> > > >German if I put my mind to it.  So like we're rappin.  She's from East
>> > > >Prussia.  Then I drop the bomb and say that my folks are ethnic
>> > > >Germans from Hungary.  Needless to say the conversation stopped
>> > > >immediately.  Them Krauts think that every ethnic German from Hungary
>> > > >is a Gypsy.  Little do they know that German was the official language
>> > > >in Hungary for many years.  So was Latin.  Up with Krauts.  I got no
>> > > >use for them right now.  They aren't fit to polish the ass of 'I'll
>> > > >Always Be Whatever'.
>> > > >Fuckin' Krauts.  Up them yo-yos.
>>
>> > > In all fairness, the people have been fed allied misinformation for
>> > > decades and no longer know or understand their own history.
>>
>> > > I assume here that you are from Sieben Bürgen, called Transylvania in
>> > > English?
>>
>> > I'm from Canada.  My folks are all from 'Schwabian Turkey' in Hungary,
>> > in the county of Somodgy.
>> > Krauts are OK again today, but I've been called a Gypsy ever since I
>> > was a kid growing up with 'real' Germans.  We call ethnic Germans from
>> > Transylvania 'Saxons.'  Whether they originated from Saxony, I don't
>> > know.
>>
>> Germans have plenty of Hun blood if you read history. The blond ones
>> are probably not but the rest for sure.
>
>Huns?  Do you even know where the Hun comes from?  Europe is made up
>of a good mix of Germanic tribes, Celts, Romans, Sarmatians, Persians,
>Jews,  etc.

The guy has bought into the silly WW1 British propaganda.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:23 EST 2009
Article: 1983107 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:24:13 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:bffmm4td5kif4verlu0ggqhckdmrs6uamt@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:08:01 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , "Neil
>>>Harrington"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:holman-0901090703190001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Cyanide generated by Zyklon-B. Entire ships and factory halls were
>>>> > fumigated using the same method, so there is no technical problem 
>>>> > here,
>>>>
>>>> I think there are plenty of problems there, technical and otherwise.
>>>
>>>There aren't. Zyklon-B was designed to be used specifically for this
>>>purpose by a trained exterminator.
>>
>> It wasn't intended or designed to kill people. It was designed and
>> intended as an insecticide.
>
>The only difference is the target species, and the quantities required.
>
>Zyklon was well known to be extremely toxic to humans, hence the warnings on 
>the label.
>
>You really are reaching here, and not grasping.

That doesn't follow at all. From a chemical and financial point of
view, rapid release would be more efficient than a special preparation
intended to release CN slowly. That is the reason that the Americans,
who actually DID use CN to kill people, did not use slow-release
preparations such as Zyklon B. They simply dropped fairly cheap
pellets of NaCN or KCN into a pail of sulphuric acid. The CN is
released immediately and can then be quickly vented, rather than
having chemicals lying on the floor that emit CN for hours.

>
>
>
> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:23 EST 2009
Article: 1983856 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews shot gazans flying white flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:30:11 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Jan 16, 3:59 am, $Discount$ 
>wrote:
>> In article <6t8pniF9q0q...@mid.individual.net>, Heinr...@Ruhrgasnet.De says...> waving white flags
>>
>> they were just drying their diapers.  pallies should always be shot no matter
>> what they are doing.
>
>What happened to all those brave hamas 'fighters' who were going to
>fight the IDF and destroy them to a man ?
>Blood was going to run in the streets.
>Remember the Iraqi minister of information ?
>I think the Palestinians have employed him

There is a limit to what one can do when the enemy has superior
equipment and also hugely outnumbers your own forces. Hamas is being
heroic, while the IDF are basic cowardly thugs.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:23 EST 2009
Article: 1983857 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WW II all British army run away at Dunkerque. Evacuation they called it.
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On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:05:09 +0100, Zulu  wrote:

>Joe Bruno escribió:
>> On Jan 12, 8:26 am, TallHenry  wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>> Joe Bruno   wrote:
>>>
>>>> There was a French resistance to the Nazi occupation, but it was
>>>> nowhere near as large as the Yugoslav partisans under Tito or the
>>>> partisan movement in the USSR.
>>>          Seehttp://www.express.co.uk/features/view/46420
>> 
>> I've seen similar articles before.
>> They had a glorious example from their leader DeGaulle. He ran away
>> when the Nazis invaded.
>> 
>> Stalin and Tito did not run, nor did the Czechs.

LOL

The Czechs didn't resist in the first place. As a consequence, they
suffered less than any other European country.

>
>AS all British army did at Dunkirk.
>French wasn't an island to be safe from Wermahrt advance.
>
>Brits called it "evacuation" or "Operation dynamo".
>
>Dunkirk in World War II
>
>     Main articles: Battle of Dunkirk and Dunkirk evacuation
>
>In May 1940, during the battle of France, the British Expeditionary Force in France 
>aiding the French, were cut off from the rest of the French Army by the German 
>advance. Encircled by the Germans they retreated to the area around the port of 
>Dunkirk. The German land forces could have easily destroyed the British expeditionary 
>force, especially when many of the British troops, in their haste to withdraw, had 
>left behind their heavy equipment. For some unexplained and still unknown reason, 
>Adolf Hitler ordered the German army to stop the attack, favouring bombardment by the 
>Luftwaffe. Some say it was because Hitler was still hopeful of establishing 
>diplomatic peace with Britain before 1940 so the Germans could have a potential 
>allied force against the Russians, while others contest that the unfavourable terrain 
>(which was not suited to armoured vehicles) and a strategic German desire to retain 
>strength for future operations was the real explanation. This lull in the action gave 
>the British a few days to evacuate by sea. Winston Churchill ordered any ship or boat 
>available, large or small, to pick up the stranded soldiers, and 338,226 men 
>(including 120,000 French soldiers) were evacuated - the miracle of Dunkirk, as 
>Churchill called it. It took over 900 vessels to evacuate the Allied forces. More 
>than 40,000 vehicles as well as massive amounts of other military equipment and 
>supplies were left behind; their value being less than that of trained fighting men. 
>The British evacuation of Dunkirk through the English Channel was codenamed Operation 
>Dynamo.
>
>Operation Dynamo
>
>The Dunkirk evacuation, codenamed Operation Dynamo by the British, was the evacuation 
>of Allied soldiers from the beaches and harbour of Dunkirk, France, between May 26 
>and June 4, 1940, when British, French and Canadian troops were cut off by the German 
>army during the Battle of Dunkirk in the Second World War. Winston Churchill called 
>it the greatest military defeat for many centuries, warning that "the whole root, the 
>core, and brain of the British Army" was stranded in Dunkirk. He hailed their 
>subsequent rescue as a "miracle of deliverance."[1]
>
>On the first day only 7,000 men were evacuated but by the ninth day a total of 
>338,226 soldiers — 198,229 British and 139,997 French [2]— were rescued by the 
>hastily assembled fleet of 860 boats. Many of the troops were able to embark from the 
>harbour's protective mole onto 42 British destroyers and other large ships, while 
>others had to wade from the beaches toward the ships, waiting for hours to board, 
>shoulder deep in water. Others were ferried from the beaches to the larger ships, and 
>thousands were carried back to England, by the famous "little ships of Dunkirk", a 
>flotilla of around 700 merchant marine boats, fishing boats, pleasure craft and RNLI 
>lifeboats — the smallest of which was the 15-foot fishing boat, Tamzine, now in the 
>Imperial War Museum — whose civilian crews were called into service for the 
>emergency. The "miracle of the little ships" remains a prominent folk memory in 
>Britain.[3][4]
>
>Operation Dynamo took its name from the dynamo room in the naval headquarters below 
>Dover Castle, which contained the dynamo that during World War I provided the 
>building with electricity. It was in this room that British Vice Admiral Bertram 
>Ramsay planned the operation and briefed Winston Churchill as it was underway.[5]
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dynamo


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:24 EST 2009
Article: 1984260 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:04:05 -0500, "Neil Harrington" 
wrote:

>Eugene Holman wrote:
>> In article , "Neil
>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>
>>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>>> In article , "Neil
>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>>
>>>> There is an interesting and subtle difference in our take on this
>>>> matter. You want to restrict the term "gassing" to killing people
>>>> with a *poisonous* gas. I want to extend the meaning of the term
>>>> somewhat to include killing with a *lethal* gas.
>>>
>>> That's a distinction without a difference. "Poisonous gas" and
>>> "lethal gas" mean the same thing.
>>
>> And I claim that all gases are potentially lethal to humans, if they
>> are forced to breathe them in their pure form. A person forced to
>> breathe pure oxygen, pure hydrogen, or pure nitrogen is going to die,
>
>Lots of people in hospitals (and often even out of hospitals) are given pure 
>oxygen to breathe; it not only doesn't kill them, it is necessary to keep 
>them alive. But of course I understand you mean being given 100% of the 
>particular gas, nothing else mixed in the breathable gas even in small 
>quantities.

Pure oxygen will damage the lungs and kill you in short order as well.
Oxygen is one of the most corrosive substances known in nature.

>
>If someone is (in that way) given 100% hydrogen or nitrogen, of course they 
>will suffocate since they require oxygen to live. That does not make 
>hydrogen or nitrogen a poison gas. Indeed, if nitrogen were a poison gas 
>we'd all be dead, since it makes up about 80% of the air we breathe.
>
>
>> as surely as a person forced to breathe pure cyanide or pure carbon
>> monoxide. The difference is in the percentage of the gas that is in
>> the air that the person is forced to breathe as well as in the length
>> of time the person takes to die. Cyanide is "poisonous"  because it
>> takes a far lower percentage and length of time for it to be lethal
>> than nitrogen does.
>
>No. Cyanide is poisonous, period. Whether breathed or taken by mouth, or 
>absorbed through the skin, it is poisonous. Nitrogen is not poisonous in the 
>least. As far as the body is concerned, nitrogen is just an inert gas -- the 
>body makes no use of it at all as far as I know; the only thing it does is 
>dilute the oxygen to the level our respiratory and circulatory systems 
>accept as "normal," and the reason for that is that we've evolved to live 
>and function in this particular atmospheric environment.
>
>
>> Nevertheless, a person forced to breathe pure
>> nitrogen for ten to fifteen minutes will die.
>
>Again: if by "pure nitrogen" you mean he's not allowed to breathe anything 
>*but* nitrogen, of course he will die since he's being deprived of oxygen.
>
>You're confusing the *lack* of an element necessary to sustain life with 
>"poison." They are two different things entirely, and have nothing to do 
>with each other.
>
>It isn't just oxygen we need to live. We need water also, and deprived of 
>water we will die. That doesn't mean the absence of water is "poison."
>
>It's exactly analogous:
>
>1. Deprived of water we will die.
>2. Given water, taken with a quantity of cyanide, we will also die, but by 
>an entirely different mechanism. Death by cyanide poisoning is not in any 
>way related to death from thirst.
>
>1a. Deprived of oxygen we will die.
>2a. Given plenty of oxygen-containing air, but air to which a quantity 
>cyanide gas has been added, we will also die, but by an entirely different 
>mechanism. Death by cyanide poisoning is not in any way related to death 
>from suffocation.
>
>>
>>> Forcing someone to rebreathe his own exhalation until
>>> the oxygen is used up does not make that exhalation a lethal gas.
>>
>> Of course it does. If the sole cause of death is breathing air that
>> has too low an oxygen content to sustain life, the exhalation gas is
>> lethal.
>
>Not at all. The exhalation (provided it does not contain something 
>poisonous, like cyanide) is perfectly safe to breathe; there is nothing 
>lethal about it. Cyanide gas, or any lethal gas, is *not* perfectly safe to 
>breathe.
>
>
>[ . . . ]
>>
>>>> My argument is that the word "poisonous" is relative. Cyanide in
>
>No, it is not. It's not like "tall" or "short" or "light" or "heavy" --  
>those are relative terms. In order to be "poisonous," a substance must have 
>some toxic effect all by itself, in a relatively small quantity, not 
>requiring any other change in the subject's environment. A spider or 
>poisonous snake for example injects a very small amount of venom which may 
>injure, incapacitate or kill its victim even though that victim was 
>previously in a condition of perfect health, well fed, not thirsty, plenty 
>of good air to breathe, normal body temperature, and so on. The absence or 
>modification of any of those *other* conditions might also cause the 
>individual to become incapacitated or to die, but any of those would not be 
>examples of "poisoning" or of any lethal substance.
>
>
>>>> concentrations lower than 150 ppm will make people sick, but will
>>>> not kill them, at least in the short and medium term. In contrast
>>>> to this, nitrogen, which comprises 79% of the air that we normally
>>>> breathe, in a concentration of 90%, will kill people forced to
>>>> breathe it. Even breathing pure oxygen, 21% of the air we normally
>>>> breathe, can have a lethal effect in the shorter term, see e.g.
>>>> http://science.howstuffworks.com/question493.htm. Oxygen and
>>>> nitrogen are not poisonous, but they can be lethal.
>>>
>>> Again, that would not be an example of gassing.
>>
>> Call it what you want. It is an example of killing people by
>> manipulating the content of the air that they are forced to breathe.
>> It could be characterized as a superset of gassing.
>
>Not at all. "Gassing" in the sense of killing people in a gas chamber, 
>specifically means the use of a poison gas.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:24 EST 2009
Article: 1984261 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:22:16 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Eugene we all know gases can be lethal. The delousing chamber was a gas 
>chamber is a gas chamber why was it not used for killing the Jews. I still 
>like to figure out how the Germans did get than gas thru the shower heads. 
>Do you have a logical explanation for it including the blueprints.

If the gas had to be pumped through the shower-head plumbing, then
Zyklon-B would have been the worst possible choice. To get a gas, or
any other fluid, to move through a pipe, there needs to be some
pressure. The slow, lazy release characteristics of Zyklon-B do not
fit this requirement very well at all.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-1801091348490001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Neil
>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>
>>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>> > In article , "Neil
>>> > Harrington"  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> >
>>> > There is an interesting and subtle difference in our take on this
>>> > matter. You want to restrict the term "gassing" to killing people
>>> > with a *poisonous* gas. I want to extend the meaning of the term
>>> > somewhat to include killing with a *lethal* gas.
>>>
>>> That's a distinction without a difference. "Poisonous gas" and "lethal 
>>> gas"
>>> mean the same thing.
>>
>> And I claim that all gases are potentially lethal to humans, if they are
>> forced to breathe them in their pure form. A person forced to breathe pure
>> oxygen, pure hydrogen, or pure nitrogen is going to die, as surely as a
>> person forced to breathe pure cyanide or pure carbon monoxide. The
>> difference is in the percentage of the gas that is in the air that the
>> person is forced to breathe as well as in the length of time the person
>> takes to die. Cyanide is "poisonous"  because it takes a far lower
>> percentage and length of time for it to be lethal than nitrogen does.
>> Nevertheless, a person forced to breathe pure nitrogen for ten to fifteen
>> minutes will die.
>>
>>> Forcing someone to rebreathe his own exhalation until
>>> the oxygen is used up does not make that exhalation a lethal gas.
>>
>> Of course it does. If the sole cause of death is breathing air that has
>> too low an oxygen content to sustain life, the exhalation gas is lethal.
>>
>>> If it did,
>>> you wouldn't even need cyanide in the first place, would you?
>>
>> Which is precisely the point I have been making. Neither an American
>> high-tech gas chamber, nor a Nazi low-tech one, really need the cyanide.
>> Since they are both air tight, people trapped in either one will be dead
>> in a short time. Unlike the Americans, who usually execute one person at a
>> time in a chamber that has a proportiontely large volume of ambient air
>> compared to the volume of the executee, the Nazis built their gas chambers
>> with low ceilings and packed them with people, thus ensuring a
>> correspondingly lower volume of ambient air to begin with.
>>
>>> You could just
>>> have executioners exhaling into the "gas chamber" and their breath would
>>> kill everyone.
>>
>> Correct, although it would be far easier to use the breath exhaled by the
>> people to be executed. Ethical and legal constraints prevent or prevented
>> this simple methodology from being used.
>>
>>> People in a real (as opposed to fictional) gas chamber still have plenty 
>>> of
>>> oxygen in the air they breathe. What kills them is not the lack of 
>>> oxygen,
>>> but the presence of cyanide.
>>
>> In an American gas chamber this is true; such a high concentration of
>> cyanide is used in the relatively large chamber containing one person that
>> he is overscome by the cyande before the air goes bad. In the Nazi gas
>> chambers a far lower concentration of cyanide was used and the chamber was
>> packed with people. When they realized what was happening to them, they
>> screamed, flailed, and banged on the walls, thus depleting the good air
>> all the more rapidly as the cyanide, which their exertions caused them to
>> breathe in all the more deeply, was also killing them.
>>
>>> > This is not my whim,
>>> > but rather consistent with the meaning of the German verb "vergasen",
>>> > literally, "to fully accomplish something by using gas".
>>>
>>> Exactly the point. That isn't what happens in suffocation.
>>
>> The point is that both cyanide poisoning and suffocation are deaths caused
>> by manipulation of th air that the targeted population is forced to
>> breathe.
>>
>>> > My argument is that the word "poisonous" is relative. Cyanide in
>>> > concentrations lower than 150 ppm will make people sick, but will not
>>> > kill them, at least in the short and medium term. In contrast to this,
>>> > nitrogen, which comprises 79% of the air that we normally breathe, in
>>> > a concentration of 90%, will kill people forced to breathe it. Even
>>> > breathing pure oxygen, 21% of the air we normally breathe, can have a
>>> > lethal effect in the shorter term, see e.g.
>>> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/question493.htm. Oxygen and nitrogen
>>> > are not poisonous, but they can be lethal.
>>>
>>> Again, that would not be an example of gassing.
>>
>> Call it what you want. It is an example of killing people by manipulating
>> the content of the air that they are forced to breathe. It could be
>> characterized as a superset of gassing.
>>
>>> > Being poisonous to humans is thus not an inherent quality of gasses,
>>> > but rather it is a function of the *proportion* of a specific gas in
>>> > the air that a person breathes.
>>>
>>> No, if a gas is poisonous then it's poisonous. Whether or not there's 
>>> enough
>>> of the poison gas to kill someone does not change the fact that it's
>>> poisonous. Arsenic is famously poisonous, but it does not kill unless 
>>> given
>>> in sufficient amounts. Very small amounts have no noticeable effect. 
>>> Carbon
>>> monoxide is definitely a poison gas, but cigarette smokers inhale small
>>> amounts of it day after day for years on end without ever showing 
>>> symptoms
>>> of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>>
>> Which only underlines my point. Nitrogen is not regarded as a poisonous
>> gas (although the German word for Nitrogen *Stickstoff*, means
>> "smother-substance*), but it kills if it makes up sigificantly more than
>> 79% of the composition of the air that people are forced to breathe. The
>> only difference between carbon monoxide and nitrogen is in the percentage
>> that a person muct breathe to be killed by it.
>>>
>>> > This understood, we can see that the American idea of gassing a
>>> > executee with cyanide is only one of several modalities for using
>>> > cyanide to kill people. The difficulties that some people have
>>> > accepting that the Nazis killed people by gassing, in the German
>>> > sense, with cyanide is a consequence of an inability understand this.
>>>
>>> No, the "difficulties that some people have" in accepting those stories 
>>> is
>>> that there are just too many things wrong with the stories.
>>
>> Such as what? You yourself have admitted here that both the Nazis and the
>> Americans could kill people in gas chambers by allowing them to smother,
>> and before we agreed on this point you were wondering why the Nazis used
>> Zyklon.B to produce relatively low concentrations of cyanide, rather than
>> the Amercian one and produce much higher ones. I think that issue has been
>> addressed.
>>
>>> Nazi gas chamber
>>> stories are like flying saucer abduction stories,
>>
>> 
>>
>> Oh really? The Nazi gas chambers at death camos evolved from their
>> experience using gas chambers within the T-4 euthanasia program. This is
>> well documented and hardly controversial. The pseudo-controversy with Nazi
>> gas chambers is that people such as Fred Leuchter have been unable to
>> understand that a fatal gassing accident or fumigation aborted after half
>> an hour proovide a far better étalon for devising a methodoly for killing
>> people efficiently by manipulating the composition of the air that they
>> are forced to breathe than an American penal execution using excessive
>> concentrations of cyanide does.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:25 EST 2009
Article: 1984263 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: List Of Israel's Child Victims In Gaza
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:12:40 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in bericht 
>news:Xns9B956E119DBFFTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in news:6tc1q8Fa20r2U1
>> @mid.individual.net:
>>
>>>
>>> "I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in
>> bericht
>>> news:Xns9B956832690A8Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in
>>>> news:6tc0q9Fa4q0tU1@mid.individual.net:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in
>>>>> bericht news:Xns9B95666E1A7FBTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in news:6tbfq6Fa3jl2U1
>>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://daledamos.blogspot.com/2006/08/123-israeli-children-killed-
>> by.htm
>>>>>> l
>>>>>
>>>>> jewsare nothing but a bunch of maniac killers and should ber presented
>>>>> wityh the bill for ytheir behaviour asap
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You sound angry. Good.
>>>
>>> yes i am angryudid you see the ageson that list? i am god damned
>>> veryangeryaboutthose fucking murderersof jews !!!!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> But those murderous palestinians are fine by you?
>at least they donot use f15, artillery and tanks against innocent people. 

Of course, in American mythology, murdering people using expensive
equipment somehow makes it acceptable, whereas the poor man's weapons
of slingshots, gasoline bottles, and suicide bombers are evil.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:26 EST 2009
Article: 1984264 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: List Of Israel's Child Victims In Gaza
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 11:28:07 -0800 (PST), george 
wrote:

>On Jan 18, 7:59 am, "I'll Always Be 17-01-09"
> wrote:
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in news:6te7auFafrdrU1
>> @mid.individual.net:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in
>> bericht
>> >news:Xns9B956E119DBFFTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> >> "Heinrich"  wrote in news:6tc1q8Fa20r2U1
>> >> @mid.individual.net:
>>
>> >>> "I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in
>> >> bericht
>> >>>news:Xns9B956832690A8Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> >>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in
>> >>>>news:6tc0q9Fa4q0tU1@mid.individual.net:
>>
>> >>>>> "I'll Always Be 16-01-09"  schreef in
>> >>>>> berichtnews:Xns9B95666E1A7FBTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> >>>>>> "Heinrich"  wrote in news:6tbfq6Fa3jl2U1
>> >>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>
>> >>>>>>http://daledamos.blogspot.com/2006/08/123-israeli-children-killed-
>> >> by.htm
>> >>>>>> l
>>
>> >>>>> jewsare nothing but a bunch of maniac killers and should ber
>> presented
>> >>>>> wityh the bill for ytheir behaviour asap
>>
>> >>>> You sound angry. Good.
>>
>> >>> yes i am angryudid you see the ageson that list? i am god damned
>> >>> veryangeryaboutthose fucking murderersof jews !!!!
>>
>> >> But those murderous palestinians are fine by you?
>> > at least they donot use f15, artillery and tanks against innocent
>> people.
>>
>> No, they just strap bombs on themselves and walk into/onto buses, pizza
>> parlors, schools, wedding parties...all high priority military targets
>>
>> They must be dutch
>
>No. He's one of the nastier types of nazi.
>Notice how its the Palestinian kids he mentions and never the Jewish
>kids ?

You can count the number of Jewish victims on your fingers. It is the
IDF that specializes in mass murder, not Hamas or any other
Palestinian group.

>
>Some of us don't differentiate


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Jan 18 16:26:26 EST 2009
Article: 1984265 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Arab Attacker Killed by his Own Rock
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:00:34 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6tfralF97t6oU1@mid.individual.net...
>>A Palestinian Authority Arab who stoned cars in Samaria was killed by one 
>>of his own rocks, police have concluded. A Jewish man held in connection 
>>with the death has been released.
>> The Arab teenager hurled heavy stones at Israeli-owned vehicles along a 
>> Samaria highway last Tuesday evening. He managed to hit one car, which was 
>> driven by a resident of the nearby town of Emmanuel.
>>
>> Fearing further attacks, the driver fired a single shot in the air to 
>> frighten away the stone-thrower. He then contacted local security officers 
>> to report both the attack and his own response.
>>
>>
>> A short time later, Israeli paramedics received a report of an Arab teen 
>> found unconscious and badly wounded next to a highway. The teen suffered a 
>> serious head injury that appeared to be a bullet wound. Medical personnel 
>> rushed to the scene but were unable to save the young man, who died a 
>> short time later.
>>
>> Police originally believed that the resident of Emmanuel who reported 
>> firing in the air had in fact fired at his attacker, killing him. The man 
>> was arrested and questioned. However, an initial forensic report showed 
>> that the attacker had not been killed by a bullet, and the detainee was 
>> released.
>>
>> A final forensic report, released over the weekend, showed that the 
>> attacker was killed when a stone he threw hit the car driven by the man 
>> from Emmanuel. The stone hit the car's tire and bounced back at high 
>> speed, hitting the attacker and leaving him with a fatal head injury.
>
>
>BBBWWWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa
>
>Thank you for that, Heinrich. I needed a good laugh.
>
>There seems to be no end to the lies these hook nosed cunts will entertain.

I suppose that this story is at least as plausible as some of the
holocaust™ tales.

>
>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:28 EST 2009
Article: 1984796 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:51:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>I like to hang you mouth on a oxygen bottle just do find out how are doing.

The person calling itself "I'll always be" is full of shit. Nobody
administers "pure" oxygen, even in oxygen tents. It is merely air with
an enriched percentage of oxygen. Pure oxygen will destroy the alveoli
in the lungs and kill the person in a very short time.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"I'll Always Be 18-01-09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B978502F2C3ATheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>> news:db47n41s3i958pmb1urrdcp1oef41q0fl7@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Pure oxygen will damage the lungs and kill you in short order as well.
>>> Oxygen is one of the most corrosive substances known in nature.
>>
>> That must come as a surprise to emergency medics who frequently give 100%
>> oxygen at flow rates of up to 15 LPM to victims of all sorts of 
>> emergencies.
>>
>> Try again 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:29 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:11:43 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:8b68dc35-08e2-4e54-a993-e75b18038a83@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>On Jan 18, 1:04 pm, "I'll Always Be 18-01-09"
> wrote:
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote 
>> innews:db47n41s3i958pmb1urrdcp1oef41q0fl7@4ax.com:
>>
>> > Pure oxygen will damage the lungs and kill you in short order as well.
>> > Oxygen is one of the most corrosive substances known in nature.
>>
>> That must come as a surprise to emergency medics who frequently give 100%
>> oxygen at flow rates of up to 15 LPM to victims of all sorts of 
>> emergencies.
>>
>> Try again
>
>>Pure Oxygen is also used by Navy divers. It helps them to adjust to
>>normal atmospheric pressure after they come up from a deep dive. It
>>helps to avoid the bends, which is painful and can kill.
>
>
>Do you know HOW wrong you are, b'luto. On SO many fronts?
>
>Do a little research before opening your gob, b'luto.
>
>
His babble about divers is typical of his stuff, including his
holocaust™ comments. Everything he spouts is very low quality.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:29 EST 2009
Article: 1984811 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:43:21 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ae47n4l319fjjbvidt3pbiiq6labr91fj3@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:22:16 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Eugene we all know gases can be lethal. The delousing chamber was a gas
>>>chamber is a gas chamber why was it not used for killing the Jews. I still
>>>like to figure out how the Germans did get than gas thru the shower heads.
>>>Do you have a logical explanation for it including the blueprints.
>>
>> If the gas had to be pumped through the shower-head plumbing, then
>> Zyklon-B would have been the worst possible choice. To get a gas, or
>> any other fluid, to move through a pipe, there needs to be some
>> pressure. The slow, lazy release characteristics of Zyklon-B do not
>> fit this requirement very well at all.
>
>
>The yids would have us the gas was released in an alarmingly violent manner. 
>The jacobsOn turd is forever spouting some nonsense about the "vehemence" of 
>release. I'ver searched high and low for a scientific description of his 
>"vehemence" but have been unable to do so. I'd like to know how it is 
>measured.

I've never seen "vehemence" quantified in a scientific sense, but the
holocaust™ industry reports all manner of amazing phenomena.

>
>
>
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>news:holman-1801091348490001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>> In article , "Neil
>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>>>> > In article , "Neil
>>>>> > Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> >
>>>>> > There is an interesting and subtle difference in our take on this
>>>>> > matter. You want to restrict the term "gassing" to killing people
>>>>> > with a *poisonous* gas. I want to extend the meaning of the term
>>>>> > somewhat to include killing with a *lethal* gas.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a distinction without a difference. "Poisonous gas" and "lethal
>>>>> gas"
>>>>> mean the same thing.
>>>>
>>>> And I claim that all gases are potentially lethal to humans, if they are
>>>> forced to breathe them in their pure form. A person forced to breathe 
>>>> pure
>>>> oxygen, pure hydrogen, or pure nitrogen is going to die, as surely as a
>>>> person forced to breathe pure cyanide or pure carbon monoxide. The
>>>> difference is in the percentage of the gas that is in the air that the
>>>> person is forced to breathe as well as in the length of time the person
>>>> takes to die. Cyanide is "poisonous"  because it takes a far lower
>>>> percentage and length of time for it to be lethal than nitrogen does.
>>>> Nevertheless, a person forced to breathe pure nitrogen for ten to 
>>>> fifteen
>>>> minutes will die.
>>>>
>>>>> Forcing someone to rebreathe his own exhalation until
>>>>> the oxygen is used up does not make that exhalation a lethal gas.
>>>>
>>>> Of course it does. If the sole cause of death is breathing air that has
>>>> too low an oxygen content to sustain life, the exhalation gas is lethal.
>>>>
>>>>> If it did,
>>>>> you wouldn't even need cyanide in the first place, would you?
>>>>
>>>> Which is precisely the point I have been making. Neither an American
>>>> high-tech gas chamber, nor a Nazi low-tech one, really need the cyanide.
>>>> Since they are both air tight, people trapped in either one will be dead
>>>> in a short time. Unlike the Americans, who usually execute one person at 
>>>> a
>>>> time in a chamber that has a proportiontely large volume of ambient air
>>>> compared to the volume of the executee, the Nazis built their gas 
>>>> chambers
>>>> with low ceilings and packed them with people, thus ensuring a
>>>> correspondingly lower volume of ambient air to begin with.
>>>>
>>>>> You could just
>>>>> have executioners exhaling into the "gas chamber" and their breath 
>>>>> would
>>>>> kill everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Correct, although it would be far easier to use the breath exhaled by 
>>>> the
>>>> people to be executed. Ethical and legal constraints prevent or 
>>>> prevented
>>>> this simple methodology from being used.
>>>>
>>>>> People in a real (as opposed to fictional) gas chamber still have 
>>>>> plenty
>>>>> of
>>>>> oxygen in the air they breathe. What kills them is not the lack of
>>>>> oxygen,
>>>>> but the presence of cyanide.
>>>>
>>>> In an American gas chamber this is true; such a high concentration of
>>>> cyanide is used in the relatively large chamber containing one person 
>>>> that
>>>> he is overscome by the cyande before the air goes bad. In the Nazi gas
>>>> chambers a far lower concentration of cyanide was used and the chamber 
>>>> was
>>>> packed with people. When they realized what was happening to them, they
>>>> screamed, flailed, and banged on the walls, thus depleting the good air
>>>> all the more rapidly as the cyanide, which their exertions caused them 
>>>> to
>>>> breathe in all the more deeply, was also killing them.
>>>>
>>>>> > This is not my whim,
>>>>> > but rather consistent with the meaning of the German verb "vergasen",
>>>>> > literally, "to fully accomplish something by using gas".
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly the point. That isn't what happens in suffocation.
>>>>
>>>> The point is that both cyanide poisoning and suffocation are deaths 
>>>> caused
>>>> by manipulation of th air that the targeted population is forced to
>>>> breathe.
>>>>
>>>>> > My argument is that the word "poisonous" is relative. Cyanide in
>>>>> > concentrations lower than 150 ppm will make people sick, but will not
>>>>> > kill them, at least in the short and medium term. In contrast to 
>>>>> > this,
>>>>> > nitrogen, which comprises 79% of the air that we normally breathe, in
>>>>> > a concentration of 90%, will kill people forced to breathe it. Even
>>>>> > breathing pure oxygen, 21% of the air we normally breathe, can have a
>>>>> > lethal effect in the shorter term, see e.g.
>>>>> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/question493.htm. Oxygen and nitrogen
>>>>> > are not poisonous, but they can be lethal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, that would not be an example of gassing.
>>>>
>>>> Call it what you want. It is an example of killing people by 
>>>> manipulating
>>>> the content of the air that they are forced to breathe. It could be
>>>> characterized as a superset of gassing.
>>>>
>>>>> > Being poisonous to humans is thus not an inherent quality of gasses,
>>>>> > but rather it is a function of the *proportion* of a specific gas in
>>>>> > the air that a person breathes.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, if a gas is poisonous then it's poisonous. Whether or not there's
>>>>> enough
>>>>> of the poison gas to kill someone does not change the fact that it's
>>>>> poisonous. Arsenic is famously poisonous, but it does not kill unless
>>>>> given
>>>>> in sufficient amounts. Very small amounts have no noticeable effect.
>>>>> Carbon
>>>>> monoxide is definitely a poison gas, but cigarette smokers inhale small
>>>>> amounts of it day after day for years on end without ever showing
>>>>> symptoms
>>>>> of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>>>>
>>>> Which only underlines my point. Nitrogen is not regarded as a poisonous
>>>> gas (although the German word for Nitrogen *Stickstoff*, means
>>>> "smother-substance*), but it kills if it makes up sigificantly more than
>>>> 79% of the composition of the air that people are forced to breathe. The
>>>> only difference between carbon monoxide and nitrogen is in the 
>>>> percentage
>>>> that a person muct breathe to be killed by it.
>>>>>
>>>>> > This understood, we can see that the American idea of gassing a
>>>>> > executee with cyanide is only one of several modalities for using
>>>>> > cyanide to kill people. The difficulties that some people have
>>>>> > accepting that the Nazis killed people by gassing, in the German
>>>>> > sense, with cyanide is a consequence of an inability understand this.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, the "difficulties that some people have" in accepting those stories
>>>>> is
>>>>> that there are just too many things wrong with the stories.
>>>>
>>>> Such as what? You yourself have admitted here that both the Nazis and 
>>>> the
>>>> Americans could kill people in gas chambers by allowing them to smother,
>>>> and before we agreed on this point you were wondering why the Nazis used
>>>> Zyklon.B to produce relatively low concentrations of cyanide, rather 
>>>> than
>>>> the Amercian one and produce much higher ones. I think that issue has 
>>>> been
>>>> addressed.
>>>>
>>>>> Nazi gas chamber
>>>>> stories are like flying saucer abduction stories,
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Oh really? The Nazi gas chambers at death camos evolved from their
>>>> experience using gas chambers within the T-4 euthanasia program. This is
>>>> well documented and hardly controversial. The pseudo-controversy with 
>>>> Nazi
>>>> gas chambers is that people such as Fred Leuchter have been unable to
>>>> understand that a fatal gassing accident or fumigation aborted after 
>>>> half
>>>> an hour proovide a far better étalon for devising a methodoly for 
>>>> killing
>>>> people efficiently by manipulating the composition of the air that they
>>>> are forced to breathe than an American penal execution using excessive
>>>> concentrations of cyanide does.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eugene Holman
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:30 EST 2009
Article: 1984812 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-1901090752040001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> >
>> > Look at the slope of Irmscher's charts,
>> > http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.en. In
>> > this context "vehement" (or "robust"), is used to describe a reaction, the
>> > release of hydrogen cyanide into the ambient air, that is 70 to 80 per
>> > cent completed within an hour of its having begun.
>> 
>> Again - NO description of what "vehemence" means, silly man.
>> 
>> Therefore - DO hold your gormy tongue as you were instructed.
> 
>You really are being more obtuse than usual today. The caracterization
>"vehement" means "intense", "rapid", as can be seen by the angle of the
>slope of percentage of HCN released vs. time function. The steeper the
>slope of the curve, the more "vehement", "intense", or "rapid" the
>reaction. Comparison of the curves obtained for different temperatures
>indicates that the "vehemence" of the reaction, a function of the slope of
>the curve, is directly proportional to the temperature of the ambient air
>in which it takes place. The warmer the air, the more rapid and intense
>the reaction.
>
>This is also quite consistent with the purpose of Zyklon-B. If enough has
>to be applied to generate a concentration in excess of 10,000 ppm that
>will last for several days, one would expect a concentration in that range
>to be reached within the first hour of the procedure.
>
>Now, do go and review your elementary algebra if the concepts of angle of
>the slope of a simple function and its ability to serve as an index of
>intensity still elude you, that's a good lad.

The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent. It was
specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY. To generate gases under
pressure, other approaches would have been required.

>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:30 EST 2009
Article: 1984813 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 23:04:16 -0500, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ae47n4l319fjjbvidt3pbiiq6labr91fj3@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:22:16 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Eugene we all know gases can be lethal. The delousing chamber was a gas
>>>chamber is a gas chamber why was it not used for killing the Jews. I still
>>>like to figure out how the Germans did get than gas thru the shower heads.
>>>Do you have a logical explanation for it including the blueprints.
>>
>> If the gas had to be pumped through the shower-head plumbing,
>
>Which isn't what was done, so it is an irrelevant comment.  It was generally 
>added through holes in the ceilings.
>
>> then
>> Zyklon-B would have been the worst possible choice. To get a gas, or
>> any other fluid, to move through a pipe, there needs to be some
>> pressure. The slow, lazy release characteristics of Zyklon-B do not
>
>These characteristics do not exist.
>
>Zyklon was designed to outgas rapidly, so that a high concentration - 
>between 11,000ppm and 17,000 ppm could be reached, and maintained for a day 
>or two or three, quickly.

To maintain a high concentration for several days requires a SLOW
release. Rapid release is something that does its thing in a few
seconds or a few minutes, as would KCN in sulphuric acid.

>
>Only 300ppm is necessary to killl humans in 15 minutes or so.
>
>-pk
>
>
>> fit this requirement very well at all.
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:30 EST 2009
Article: 1985576 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:02:18 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l99cn45f9n8ll10pavfp5r9h745e4v9v9k@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:51:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I like to hang you mouth on a oxygen bottle just do find out how are 
>>>doing.
>>
>> The person calling itself "I'll always be" is full of shit. Nobody
>> administers "pure" oxygen, even in oxygen tents. It is merely air with
>> an enriched percentage of oxygen. Pure oxygen will destroy the alveoli
>> in the lungs and kill the person in a very short time.
>
>I suspect the person calling itself "I'll always bee..." is jacobsOn. It 
>uses the same language, it posts (endlessly) the same b'ullshit and it has 
>the same rather tenuous hold on reality as the jacobsOn clown.
>
>Here is the latest list of jacobsOn's aliases.
>
>
>truth-will-win
>Relaxed Aussies
>Kramer-is-Krazy
>hellfire
>someone-who-knows
>
>spam-me-not
>Someone-Somewhere
>NoSpamAtMyAccount
>NoSpamAtAllHere
>NO SPAM AT ALL
>truthshallwin
>me-is-away
>NoSpamHere
>Tall Henry
>Alan Jones
>TALL HENRY
>RJ11
>CONCERNED AUSSIES
>S. JONES
>FREEDOM FOR GAZA
>A LITTLE SANITY
>me is away
>Alan-from-Elimbah
>
>>
>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>>"I'll Always Be 18-01-09"  wrote in message
>>>news:Xns9B978502F2C3ATheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote in
>>>> news:db47n41s3i958pmb1urrdcp1oef41q0fl7@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> Pure oxygen will damage the lungs and kill you in short order as well.
>>>>> Oxygen is one of the most corrosive substances known in nature.
>>>>
>>>> That must come as a surprise to emergency medics who frequently give 
>>>> 100%
>>>> oxygen at flow rates of up to 15 LPM to victims of all sorts of
>>>> emergencies.
>>>>
>>>> Try again
>>>
>> 
It sounds like somebody with no life outside of usenet. It is truly
pathetic.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:31 EST 2009
Article: 1985577 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 21:14:50 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>Holman) wrote:
>
>  
>
>>>> > Look at the slope of Irmscher's charts,
>>>> > http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.en. In
>>>> > this context "vehement" (or "robust"), is used to describe a reaction, the
>>>> > release of hydrogen cyanide into the ambient air, that is 70 to 80 per
>>>> > cent completed within an hour of its having begun.
>
>>>> Again - NO description of what "vehemence" means, silly man.
>>>> 
>>>> Therefore - DO hold your gormy tongue as you were instructed.
>
>>The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent. It was
>>specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY. To generate gases under
>>pressure, other approaches would have been required.
>
>In what way is releasing 70 - 80% of its total concentration of HCn
>within an hour for a job known to take days "slow?"

Compared to a handful of KCN in sulphuric acid, which releases its HCN
within a few minutes, if not seconds if the KCN is in powder form, it
is very slow, especially in view of the claim that it killed all these
thousands of people within ten minutes.

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:31 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 08:30:51 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article ,
>ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>
>
>
>> The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent. 
>
>The fact remains that you are making a claim without being able to refer
>to research backing it up. Dr. Irmschr's research and curves
>(http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.de), as
>well as Dr. Peters'  manual *Blausäure zur Schädlingsbekämpfung*
>(http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/peters-1933/htm/intro00.htm)
>contradict your unsubstantiated claim.

We used to produced HCN for some experiments at university. I don't
need to "substantiate" anything. I KNOW, and I also know that you are
spouting nonsense.

>
>> It was specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY. 
>
>No it wasn't. It was specifically designed to generate enough cyanide to
>reach the concentration needed to kill vermin as quickly as possible.
>According to Dr. Irmscher's research, all of the cyanide would have
>evaporated from the carrier within the first two hours at 15 degrees C,
>with the timeframe for complete evaporation being even shorter at higher
>temperatures.
>
>If a fumigation requires a concentration of 10,000 to 15,000 ppm to be
>maintained for 72 hours, a product that released cyanide into the ambient
>air very slowly, taking several hours to reach the required concentration,
>would be extremely inefficient and unnecessarily prolong the process.
>
>> To generate gases under pressure, other approaches would have been required.
>
>Who has ever claimed that it generated cyanide under pressure? Cyanide
>boils at 26 degrees C, it begins to evaporte into the ambient air at a
>much lower temprature. Dr. Irmscher's research demonstrates that at 15
>degrees centigrade between 70 and 80 percent of the cyanide in a given
>quantity of Zyklon-B has evaporated within the first hour, with the rate
>of evaporation being proportional to the temperature. In a room packed
>with people, the temperature of the ambient air, even if 15 degrees when
>the operation started, would quickly rise to something approaching body
>temperature due to the heat of exhaled air and the lack of ventilation. A
>trained exterminator would easily be able to calculate the amount of
>Zyklon-B that needed to be introduced to the room to generate a
>concentration somewhat in excess of the 300 ppm needed to kill people
>within five to ten minutes, but would nevertheless be relatively harmless
>after half an hour of cyanide evaporation at a temperature considerably in
>excess of 15 degrees C, and another half hour of robust aeration and
>ventilation.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:31 EST 2009
Article: 1985579 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:07:18 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2101090830510001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article ,
>> ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>>> Holman) wrote:
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>>> The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent.
>>
>> The fact remains that you are making a claim without being able to refer
>> to research backing it up. Dr. Irmschr's research and curves
>> (http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.de), as
>> well as Dr. Peters'  manual *Blausäure zur Schädlingsbekämpfung*
>> (http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/peters-1933/htm/intro00.htm)
>> contradict your unsubstantiated claim.
>>
>>> It was specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY.
>>
>> No it wasn't. It was specifically designed to generate enough cyanide to
>> reach the concentration needed to kill vermin as quickly as possible.
>
>
>You say this, yet earlier stated the gas was designed to remain in high 
>concentration for days.

That, naturally, would require the Zyklon-B to release HCN for "days",
making it a slow release agent. Eugene likes to play meaningless
word-games.

>
>Do you not see a conundrum here, yougenie?
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:31 EST 2009
Article: 1985580 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:41:40 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2101090830510001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> > In article ,
>> > ebersdorf@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> >> Holman) wrote:
>> >>
>> > 
>> > 
>> >
>> >> The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent.
>> >
>> > The fact remains that you are making a claim without being able to refer
>> > to research backing it up. Dr. Irmschr's research and curves
>> > (http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.de), as
>> > well as Dr. Peters'  manual *Blausäure zur Schädlingsbekämpfung*
>> > (http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/peters-1933/htm/intro00.htm)
>> > contradict your unsubstantiated claim.
>> >
>> >> It was specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY.
>> >
>> > No it wasn't. It was specifically designed to generate enough cyanide to
>> > reach the concentration needed to kill vermin as quickly as possible.
>> 
>> 
>> You say this, yet earlier stated the gas was designed to remain in high 
>> concentration for days.
>> 
>> Do you not see a conundrum here, yougenie?
>
>No. It was specifically designed to generate a lethal concentration of
>cyanide that would last for days *within a sealed enclosure*. Once the
>lethal concentration had been reached, it would remain in the ambient air
>until the cyanide-laden air in the enclosure was exchanged and replenished
>by ventilation and aeration, Dummkopf.

It was intended to fumigate the holds of ships, and those are hardly
airtight.

>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:32 EST 2009
Article: 1985581 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:05:56 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:uvacn4pikuqanak895e96e1rpiojf9tguo@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:48:46 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>>
>>>In article , "Ben Cramer"
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>> news:holman-1901090752040001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>>
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > Look at the slope of Irmscher's charts,
>>>> > http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/irmscher-1942/htm/p036.htm.en. 
>>>> > In
>>>> > this context "vehement" (or "robust"), is used to describe a reaction, 
>>>> > the
>>>> > release of hydrogen cyanide into the ambient air, that is 70 to 80 per
>>>> > cent completed within an hour of its having begun.
>>>>
>>>> Again - NO description of what "vehemence" means, silly man.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore - DO hold your gormy tongue as you were instructed.
>>>
>>>You really are being more obtuse than usual today. The caracterization
>>>"vehement" means "intense", "rapid", as can be seen by the angle of the
>>>slope of percentage of HCN released vs. time function. The steeper the
>>>slope of the curve, the more "vehement", "intense", or "rapid" the
>>>reaction. Comparison of the curves obtained for different temperatures
>>>indicates that the "vehemence" of the reaction, a function of the slope of
>>>the curve, is directly proportional to the temperature of the ambient air
>>>in which it takes place. The warmer the air, the more rapid and intense
>>>the reaction.
>>>
>>>This is also quite consistent with the purpose of Zyklon-B. If enough has
>>>to be applied to generate a concentration in excess of 10,000 ppm that
>>>will last for several days, one would expect a concentration in that range
>>>to be reached within the first hour of the procedure.
>>>
>>>Now, do go and review your elementary algebra if the concepts of angle of
>>>the slope of a simple function and its ability to serve as an index of
>>>intensity still elude you, that's a good lad.
>>
>> The fact remains that Zyklon-B is not a rapid-release agent. It was
>> specifically designed to release HCN SLOWLY. To generate gases under
>> pressure, other approaches would have been required.
>
>If the ZyklonB was designed to be a rapid-release agent (as the 
>Holocaust(tm) Industry stories neeed) the gas would hardly have been stored 
>in basic tin cans with simple rolled joints and lids.

If a rapid-release agent of a gas is enclosed in a container, then it
would have to be a very strong container to avoid the gas pressure
bursting the container. Obviously the canned Zyklon-B exhibited a very
low vapour pressure, indicating slow release.

>
>
>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Eugene Holman
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:32 EST 2009
Article: 1985583 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:04:36 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:pqacn4hb9a6sql66r6gk97k76r0iki5npj@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:43:21 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:ae47n4l319fjjbvidt3pbiiq6labr91fj3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 18 Jan 2009 16:22:16 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Eugene we all know gases can be lethal. The delousing chamber was a gas
>>>>>chamber is a gas chamber why was it not used for killing the Jews. I 
>>>>>still
>>>>>like to figure out how the Germans did get than gas thru the shower 
>>>>>heads.
>>>>>Do you have a logical explanation for it including the blueprints.
>>>>
>>>> If the gas had to be pumped through the shower-head plumbing, then
>>>> Zyklon-B would have been the worst possible choice. To get a gas, or
>>>> any other fluid, to move through a pipe, there needs to be some
>>>> pressure. The slow, lazy release characteristics of Zyklon-B do not
>>>> fit this requirement very well at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>The yids would have us the gas was released in an alarmingly violent 
>>>manner.
>>>The jacobsOn turd is forever spouting some nonsense about the "vehemence" 
>>>of
>>>release. I'ver searched high and low for a scientific description of his
>>>"vehemence" but have been unable to do so. I'd like to know how it is
>>>measured.
>>
>> I've never seen "vehemence" quantified in a scientific sense, but the
>> holocaustT industry reports all manner of amazing phenomena.
>
>Indeed they do. I particularly like the perpetual motion thingie they had 
>going with the Germans being able to reduce human bodies to invisible ash by 
>using other bodies as fuel.

LOL

Any funeral director will tell you that human corpses do not make very
good fuel, even when they include 500 lb of ugly fat, like your
average American. A corpse is principally water, so it takes enormous
amounts of fuel, in today's circumstances natural gas, to reduce a
corpse to anything even close to mineral ash. In practice, there are
usually large chunks of bone left as well.

>
>And who can forger the mathematical genius of the Holocaust(tm) Industry 
>huxters, where 6m - 2.9m = 6m.
>
>A mitzvah already.
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Kurt Knoll.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:holman-1801091348490001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>>>>> In article , "Neil
>>>>>> Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>>>>>> > In article , "Neil
>>>>>>> > Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > There is an interesting and subtle difference in our take on this
>>>>>>> > matter. You want to restrict the term "gassing" to killing people
>>>>>>> > with a *poisonous* gas. I want to extend the meaning of the term
>>>>>>> > somewhat to include killing with a *lethal* gas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a distinction without a difference. "Poisonous gas" and 
>>>>>>> "lethal
>>>>>>> gas"
>>>>>>> mean the same thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I claim that all gases are potentially lethal to humans, if they 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> forced to breathe them in their pure form. A person forced to breathe
>>>>>> pure
>>>>>> oxygen, pure hydrogen, or pure nitrogen is going to die, as surely as 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> person forced to breathe pure cyanide or pure carbon monoxide. The
>>>>>> difference is in the percentage of the gas that is in the air that the
>>>>>> person is forced to breathe as well as in the length of time the 
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> takes to die. Cyanide is "poisonous"  because it takes a far lower
>>>>>> percentage and length of time for it to be lethal than nitrogen does.
>>>>>> Nevertheless, a person forced to breathe pure nitrogen for ten to
>>>>>> fifteen
>>>>>> minutes will die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forcing someone to rebreathe his own exhalation until
>>>>>>> the oxygen is used up does not make that exhalation a lethal gas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course it does. If the sole cause of death is breathing air that 
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> too low an oxygen content to sustain life, the exhalation gas is 
>>>>>> lethal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it did,
>>>>>>> you wouldn't even need cyanide in the first place, would you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which is precisely the point I have been making. Neither an American
>>>>>> high-tech gas chamber, nor a Nazi low-tech one, really need the 
>>>>>> cyanide.
>>>>>> Since they are both air tight, people trapped in either one will be 
>>>>>> dead
>>>>>> in a short time. Unlike the Americans, who usually execute one person 
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> time in a chamber that has a proportiontely large volume of ambient 
>>>>>> air
>>>>>> compared to the volume of the executee, the Nazis built their gas
>>>>>> chambers
>>>>>> with low ceilings and packed them with people, thus ensuring a
>>>>>> correspondingly lower volume of ambient air to begin with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could just
>>>>>>> have executioners exhaling into the "gas chamber" and their breath
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> kill everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct, although it would be far easier to use the breath exhaled by
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> people to be executed. Ethical and legal constraints prevent or
>>>>>> prevented
>>>>>> this simple methodology from being used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People in a real (as opposed to fictional) gas chamber still have
>>>>>>> plenty
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> oxygen in the air they breathe. What kills them is not the lack of
>>>>>>> oxygen,
>>>>>>> but the presence of cyanide.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In an American gas chamber this is true; such a high concentration of
>>>>>> cyanide is used in the relatively large chamber containing one person
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> he is overscome by the cyande before the air goes bad. In the Nazi gas
>>>>>> chambers a far lower concentration of cyanide was used and the chamber
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> packed with people. When they realized what was happening to them, 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> screamed, flailed, and banged on the walls, thus depleting the good 
>>>>>> air
>>>>>> all the more rapidly as the cyanide, which their exertions caused them
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> breathe in all the more deeply, was also killing them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > This is not my whim,
>>>>>>> > but rather consistent with the meaning of the German verb 
>>>>>>> > "vergasen",
>>>>>>> > literally, "to fully accomplish something by using gas".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly the point. That isn't what happens in suffocation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is that both cyanide poisoning and suffocation are deaths
>>>>>> caused
>>>>>> by manipulation of th air that the targeted population is forced to
>>>>>> breathe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > My argument is that the word "poisonous" is relative. Cyanide in
>>>>>>> > concentrations lower than 150 ppm will make people sick, but will 
>>>>>>> > not
>>>>>>> > kill them, at least in the short and medium term. In contrast to
>>>>>>> > this,
>>>>>>> > nitrogen, which comprises 79% of the air that we normally breathe, 
>>>>>>> > in
>>>>>>> > a concentration of 90%, will kill people forced to breathe it. Even
>>>>>>> > breathing pure oxygen, 21% of the air we normally breathe, can have 
>>>>>>> > a
>>>>>>> > lethal effect in the shorter term, see e.g.
>>>>>>> > http://science.howstuffworks.com/question493.htm. Oxygen and 
>>>>>>> > nitrogen
>>>>>>> > are not poisonous, but they can be lethal.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, that would not be an example of gassing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Call it what you want. It is an example of killing people by
>>>>>> manipulating
>>>>>> the content of the air that they are forced to breathe. It could be
>>>>>> characterized as a superset of gassing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > Being poisonous to humans is thus not an inherent quality of 
>>>>>>> > gasses,
>>>>>>> > but rather it is a function of the *proportion* of a specific gas 
>>>>>>> > in
>>>>>>> > the air that a person breathes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, if a gas is poisonous then it's poisonous. Whether or not there's
>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>> of the poison gas to kill someone does not change the fact that it's
>>>>>>> poisonous. Arsenic is famously poisonous, but it does not kill unless
>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>> in sufficient amounts. Very small amounts have no noticeable effect.
>>>>>>> Carbon
>>>>>>> monoxide is definitely a poison gas, but cigarette smokers inhale 
>>>>>>> small
>>>>>>> amounts of it day after day for years on end without ever showing
>>>>>>> symptoms
>>>>>>> of carbon monoxide poisoning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which only underlines my point. Nitrogen is not regarded as a 
>>>>>> poisonous
>>>>>> gas (although the German word for Nitrogen *Stickstoff*, means
>>>>>> "smother-substance*), but it kills if it makes up sigificantly more 
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> 79% of the composition of the air that people are forced to breathe. 
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> only difference between carbon monoxide and nitrogen is in the
>>>>>> percentage
>>>>>> that a person muct breathe to be killed by it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > This understood, we can see that the American idea of gassing a
>>>>>>> > executee with cyanide is only one of several modalities for using
>>>>>>> > cyanide to kill people. The difficulties that some people have
>>>>>>> > accepting that the Nazis killed people by gassing, in the German
>>>>>>> > sense, with cyanide is a consequence of an inability understand 
>>>>>>> > this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, the "difficulties that some people have" in accepting those 
>>>>>>> stories
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> that there are just too many things wrong with the stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such as what? You yourself have admitted here that both the Nazis and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Americans could kill people in gas chambers by allowing them to 
>>>>>> smother,
>>>>>> and before we agreed on this point you were wondering why the Nazis 
>>>>>> used
>>>>>> Zyklon.B to produce relatively low concentrations of cyanide, rather
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> the Amercian one and produce much higher ones. I think that issue has
>>>>>> been
>>>>>> addressed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nazi gas chamber
>>>>>>> stories are like flying saucer abduction stories,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh really? The Nazi gas chambers at death camos evolved from their
>>>>>> experience using gas chambers within the T-4 euthanasia program. This 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> well documented and hardly controversial. The pseudo-controversy with
>>>>>> Nazi
>>>>>> gas chambers is that people such as Fred Leuchter have been unable to
>>>>>> understand that a fatal gassing accident or fumigation aborted after
>>>>>> half
>>>>>> an hour proovide a far better étalon for devising a methodoly for
>>>>>> killing
>>>>>> people efficiently by manipulating the composition of the air that 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are forced to breathe than an American penal execution using excessive
>>>>>> concentrations of cyanide does.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Eugene Holman
>>>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:33 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:06:09 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> There is a video clip on youtube (or at least it used to be there) of a 
>> bunch of young men being put into a sealed shed and a can or two of zyklonB 
>> being opened whilst they were inside.
>
>It is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ36oGB3ww8.
>
>> Can't remember how long they were inside now, but it was quite some minutes.
>
>They were allegedly in the sealed shed with Zyklon-B for an hour. If the
>shed was properly sealed, they would have suffocated, even without the
>application of any Zyklon-B, within far less than an hour. You noticed, of
>course, that the physician who applied the alleged Zyklon-B was wearing a
>gas mask.
>
>No information was given about the manufacturer or composition of the
>substance alleged to be Zyklon-B, nor was information given about the
>volume of air in or the air-tightness of the shed. There was no control,
>nor was there any gas detector or other instrument measuring the
>concentration of cyanide inside the shed during the time the men were in
>the shed or when they were released.
> 
>> They all walked out perfectly healthyily with NO signs of having suffered 
>> ANY effects of gassing whatsoever.
>
>Which simply demonstrates how gullible you are.
>
>1. People trapped in a small sealed shed for an hour will exhaust the
>oxygen in the ambient air and die of suffocation.

Your exhalations still contain more than enough oxygen to sustain
somebody else who inhales what you have exhaled.  A "shed" is not
generally airtight, and the alleged NS gas chambers were clearly not
airtight either, since the photographs I've seen show a very large gap
under the wooden doors. It is most unlikely that a group sitting in a
garden shed, for example, would ever suffocate, even after some hours.
You are talking through your hat here.

>
>2. People trapped in a small sealed shed with a substance intended to
>serve as a fumigation agent by generating cyanide in a concentration in
>excess of 10,000 ppm will certainly be exposed to a concentration of at
>least 150 ppm, enough to kill them already within half an hour.
>
>3. People trapped in a sealed shed for an hour with a substance designed
>to generate a concentration of cyanide in excess of 10,000 ppm that will
>last for three days will certainly perish from cyanide poisoning,
>suffocation, or both.
>
>4. The young men were healthy and robust. The people typcially gassed by
>the Nazis had spent the previous two or three days in cattle cars with
>little or no food or water. They were typically frail elderly people and
>women with infants
>or small children. The reason that they were gassed was that the Nazis
>considered them to be incapable of doing physical work.
>
>> Because this simple 
>
>You misspelled "simple-minded".
>
>> experiment wasn't conducted by yougenie holmanstein and 
>> a bunch of academics, the entire episode must, of course, be discounted.
>> 
>> That's the way academe works, yanno.
>
>I've seen the video and can testify that it does not come up to any kind
>of scientific standard. Would you conduct it on yourself?
>
>Zyklon-B was designed to generate cyanide concentrations lethal to vermin,
>that is to say, between 10,000 and 15,000 ppm, that would last for as long
>as 72 hours. Since between 70 and 80 percent of the cyanide used by the
>Nazis evaporated from the Zyklon-B carrier within the first hour of
>exposure to the ambient air at a temperature of 15 degrees C, it is
>obvious that a concentration lethal to humans, 300 ppm within five to ten
>minutes, would have been generated within a few minutes of exposure of the
>Zyklon-B to the ambient air, the temperature at the time of the
>"experiment" having been 15.7 C according to their thermometer.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:33 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:52:08 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2101091006090001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "Ben Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>
>>> There is a video clip on youtube (or at least it used to be there) of a
>>> bunch of young men being put into a sealed shed and a can or two of 
>>> zyklonB
>>> being opened whilst they were inside.
>>
>> It is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ36oGB3ww8.
>>
>>> Can't remember how long they were inside now, but it was quite some 
>>> minutes.
>>
>> They were allegedly in the sealed shed with Zyklon-B for an hour. If the
>> shed was properly sealed, they would have suffocated,
>
>Horseshit. By what flawed method did you arrive at that conclusion?

He clearly makes it up as he goes along. People only use up a small
proportion of the oxygen when they inhale and exhale a litre of air.

>
>>even without the
>> application of any Zyklon-B, within far less than an hour. You noticed, of
>> course, that the physician who applied the alleged Zyklon-B was wearing a
>> gas mask.
>>
>> No information was given about the manufacturer or composition of the
>> substance alleged to be Zyklon-B, nor was information given about the
>> volume of air in or the air-tightness of the shed. There was no control,
>> nor was there any gas detector or other instrument measuring the
>> concentration of cyanide inside the shed during the time the men were in
>> the shed or when they were released.
>>
>>> They all walked out perfectly healthyily with NO signs of having suffered
>>> ANY effects of gassing whatsoever.
>>
>> Which simply demonstrates how gullible you are.
>>
>> 1. People trapped in a small sealed shed for an hour will exhaust the
>> oxygen in the ambient air and die of suffocation.
>
>What a crock of shit.
>
>We often spent time in such "sheds" during mines rescue training, to harden 
>ourselves to the rigours of rescue, you idiot.
>
>I've had to snipe the rest of the wanker's supposition and totally unfounded 
>b'ullshit.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:34 EST 2009
Article: 1985590 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:22:09 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <6ICdndxKDqEcbevUnZ2dnUVZ_s3inZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2101091006090001@ke-hupnet15-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> >
>> > They were allegedly in the sealed shed with Zyklon-B for an hour. If the
>> > shed was properly sealed, they would have suffocated,
>> 
>> Horseshit. By what flawed method did you arrive at that conclusion?
>
>
>> >
>> >> They all walked out perfectly healthyily with NO signs of having suffered
>> >> ANY effects of gassing whatsoever.
>> >
>> > Which simply demonstrates how gullible you are.
>> >
>> > 1. People trapped in a small sealed shed for an hour will exhaust the
>> > oxygen in the ambient air and die of suffocation.
>> 
>> What a crock of shit.
>
>You deny that people trapped in a room that is sealed off from the outside
>world and with no input of fresh air or expulsion of stale air will die as
>the oxygen in the ambient air is replaced with the carbon dioxide that
>they exhale?

If the container is truly sealed, and I have never encountered a
"shed" or any other building that is truly airtight, then yes,
EVENTUALLY there will be a problem, but not over a course of an hour
or two.

>
>> We often spent time in such "sheds" during mines rescue training, to harden 
>> ourselves to the rigours of rescue, you idiot.
>
>If the sheds were really sealed and air tight, if you sat in one for an
>hour you would not be here to tell us about it, mate.
>
>> I've had to snipe the rest of the wanker's supposition and totally unfounded 
>> b'ullshit.
>
>Ben has evidently never heard of hypoxia, nor does he understand what is
>going to happen to people if they are trapped for an hour in a small,
>crowded, unaerated, unventilated, air-tight room.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:34 EST 2009
Article: 1985593 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:04:04 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2201090959140001@ke-hupnet162-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article <59udnX1MeoVhjeXUnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>> news:holman-2201090722090001@ke-hupnet162-24.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> 
>>
>>> > Ben has evidently never heard of hypoxia, nor does he understand what 
>>> > is
>>> > going to happen to people if they are trapped for an hour in a small,
>>> > crowded, unaerated, unventilated, air-tight room.
>>>
>>> I think I might know significantly more about hypoxia than you, yougenie.
>>>
>>> I also know you have made claims you can not support.
>>
>> Never.
>
>What rot. You're the one who said, without a shred of evidence or support, 
>that the shed in the video would not support life for one hour.
>
>Not a SHRED of evidence to support your absolute nonsense.

His technique is "proof by assertion". Just because Eugene says
something, it does not follow that the something is correct.

>
>
>>You are the one [in]famous for such debating strategies. Your
>> unsubstantiated claims that Deborah Lipstadt libeled David Irving, that
>> the Jews baffled Judge Charles Gray into ruling against David Irving, that
>> Fred Leuchter proved that the Nazis had no gas chambers, that Zyklon-B
>> releases hydrogen cyanide extremely slowly, or that Dr. Christine Gosden
>> is a Jew, are laughed at all over the planet by young and old, Christian,
>> Jew, and Muslim, white, black, and yellow, and men and women alike.
>>
>>> You have made no calculation on the volume of air in the shed. None. Just
>>> another of yougenie's very wordy "because I say so" and "you will not
>>> disagree with me because I'm an academic and I've got Interpol as my
>>> watchdog."
>>
>> I'm saying no such thing. I'm saying that people locked up in a small,
>> air-tight shed with no air ventilation or replacement will die of
>> suffocation long before an hour has passed. You don't need precise
>> calculations to be able to conclude that on the basis of the views of the
>> shed shown in the video.
>>
>>> You're a loon.
>>
>> So you say. Yet you stand by your position that three men locked up in an
>> airtight shed of the dimensions shown in the video and with an exposed
>> shelf covered with hydrogen cyanide-emitting Zyklon-B can emerge an hour
>> later with no ill effects whatsoever.
>>
>> Why was the can marked with a skull and crossbones and the words *Danger
>> Poison"?
>>
>> Why did the doctor wear a gas mask when distributing the Zyklon-B?
>>
>> If Zyklon-B is so harmless to humans why did the Germans require it to
>> have an olfactory warning agent to alert people of its presence?
>>
>> If Zyklon-B is so harmless to humans why did the Germans require a person
>> to go through a training course before being licensed to use it?
>>
>> If Zyklon-B is so harmless to humans why did Fred Leuchter base his
>> argument on the unsuitability of the structures and ruins he examined to
>> have functioned as gas chambers on the position that Zyklon-B is so
>> dangerous without the engineering safety features he was looking for that
>> using it risked the danger of poisoning the entire camp?
>>
>> Who is the loon?
>
>Judging by the shite above, most definitely you. Wordy, gobby, dishonest, 
>skewed, one-eyed. Very, very poor scholarship, yougenie.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:34 EST 2009
Article: 1985597 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:26:24 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> There is a video clip on youtube (or at least it used to be there) of a 
>> bunch of young men being put into a sealed shed and a can or two of zyklonB 
>> being opened whilst they were inside.
>> 
>> Can't remember how long they were inside now, but it was quite some minutes. 
>> They all walked out perfectly healthyily with NO signs of having suffered 
>> ANY effects of gassing whatsoever.
>
>In other words, you are claiming that an hour's exposure to the cyanide
>that evaporates from Zyklon-B when the air temperature is 15.7 degrees C
>is harmless to humans, even though Zyklon-B was designed to generate and
>maintain a concentration of cyanide in excess of the 10,000 ppm needed to
>kill vermin for three whole days, while a concentration of cyanide as low
>as 150 ppm will kill human beings in half an hour, one of 300 ppm within
>five to ten minutes.

That is all very well, but the claims say that ALL of the several
thousand people in the "gas chamber" died within ten minutes of the
Zyklon-B being introduced. If Zyklon-B generated lethal amounts of the
HCN in less than 15 minutes, then there is no way that it would have
the staying power to maintain 10 thousand ppm for several days.
Something that dangerous would not have been so cavalierly packed and
handled as it clearly was.

>
>How do you explain the facts that:
>
>1. The tin from which the alleged Zyklon-B was poured bears a crudely
>printed label with a skull and crossbones and the words "Vorsicht Gift" -
>"Careful Poison"
>
>2. The tin does not bear the name of the manufacturer or of its contents.
>
>3. Hydrogen cyanide is a bright blue liquid below its boiling point of 26
>degrees C. If impreganted in a bearer, typically in the form of porous
>chips, pellets, or granules, it will dye the bearer blue. Nevertheless,
>the "Zyklon-B" administered in the video was a white, fine-grained powder.
>
>4. The doctor administering the alleged Zyklon-B wears a gas mask.
>
>5. By law, industrial Zyklon-B contains an irritant that makes breathing
>difficut and warns people of its presence. If the video is legitimate, why
>were the young men not affected by the irritant?
>
>6. The people who perfoprmed the experiment had a tank of pure oxygen
>available in case something went wrong. But pure oxygen does not suffice
>as a treatment for hydrogen cyanide poisoning. Antidotes, specifically
>sodium nitrite followed by sodium thiosulfate, must also be administered
>to derail the poisoning. For details, see e.g.
>http://www.health.state.ny.us/environmental/emergency/chemical_terrorism/cyanide_tech.htm.
>
>
>Ben, you've been had. The video is far more than a bad joke; it is
>criminally irresponsible. This is already evident from the fact that none
>of the performers were willing to show their faces or identify themselves.
>Any persons attempting to duplicate its results would die very quickly,
>and the people that produced this video would bear criminal responsibility
>for their deaths.
>
>If you accept this crap with no reservations it is hardly surprising that
>you remain convinced that Fred Leuchter "proved" that there were no Nazi
>gas chambers. 
>
>
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:35 EST 2009
Article: 1985605 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:50:50 -0800 (PST), "Relevant.Search.Result"
 wrote:

>On Jan 21, 9:34 pm, hol...@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene Holman) wrote:
>> In article <-s6dnRFagOErbevUnZ2dnUVZ_rHin...@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>> >news:holman-2101091126240001@c518-m3.eng.helsinki.fi...
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> > > In other words, you are claiming that an hour's exposure to the cyanide
>> > > that evaporates from Zyklon-B when the air temperature is 15.7 degrees C
>> > > is harmless to humans, even though Zyklon-B was designed to generate and
>> > > maintain a concentration of cyanide in excess of the 10,000 ppm needed to
>> > > kill vermin for three whole days, while a concentration of cyanide as low
>> > > as 150 ppm will kill human beings in half an hour, one of 300 ppm within
>> > > five to ten minutes.
>>
>> > I'm saying, shithead, I know what I saw.
>>
>> And I am saying, oh gullible one, that you were deceived.
>>
>> 1. There is no proof that the stuff administered was really Zyklon-B.
>> Indeed if it were genuine Zyklon-B it would have been in the form of
>> large, blue granules, pellets, or chips, not fine white poweder.
>>
>> 2. The crudely printed label on the can did not state that the substance
>> was Zyklon-B or who manufactured it, but it *did* warn with both a skull
>> and crossbones symbol and words that it was poison.
>>
>> 3. If it was poison, why were the young men not affected by an hour's
>> exposure to it?
>>
>> 4. Industrial Zyklon-B contains a mandatory irritant, but the young men
>> did not cough, wheeze, or complain of nausia, as would have been the case
>> if the mandatory irritant were present.
>>
>> 5. The physician spreading the stuff did not calculate how much was needed
>> to reach a specific concentration in a specific volume at a certain
>> temperature, but just spread it out, quite unprofessionally.
>>
>> 6. She did, however, protect herself from poisoning by wearing a gas mask.
>>
>> 7. The only antidote that was shown was a tank of oxygen and a single mask
>> for administering it, yet there were four men in the shed, meaning that if
>> all four were overcome, only one at a time could be given oxygen.
>>
>> 8. Pure oxygen is insufficient to halt cyanide poisoning, specific
>> antidotes must be administered. There was no mention of such antidotes,
>> even though these were already known to professionally licensed
>> exterminators using Zyklon-B in Nazi Germany.
>>
>> 8. In order for a dangerous fumigant to work, the enclosure in which it is
>> used has to be air tight, lest the fumigant leak into the surroundings and
>> the concentration of the lethal gas within it be diluted by incoming fresh
>> air. If four men are locked into a really airtight shed as shown in the
>> picture for an hour, they would have died of suffocation.
>>
>> You dismiss these issues as verbiage and semantics, but you have to deal
>> with them if you claim that what you see in the video actually took place
>> and was not a hoax for the gullible.
>>
>> Sorry about that. mate.
>>
>> 
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman
>
>How did the Germans get the Zyklon bollocks through the shower heads
>without
>clogging the taps?

The most recent variations of the story claim that the Zyklon-B was
scattered on the floor from entry points in the roof, and that the
shower heads were not involved. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:35 EST 2009
Article: 1985667 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:32:49 -0500, "Neil Harrington"
 wrote:

>Eugene Holman wrote:
>> In article , "Ben
>> Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>[ . . . ]
>>
>>> It's exactly what they did in the Iriving vs
>>> Lipstadt event. They managed to baffle the poor ole judge with
>>> bullshit. Took 'em $13m to do so though. In a case that was
>>> frivilous.
>>
>> Wrong again. It was easy to demonstrate that David Irving was a
>> dishonest historian. Even the two expert witnesses that he summoned
>> to testify on his behalf turned against him. Far from being baffled,
>> the "poor ole judge" chided Deborah Lipstadt for having gone to easy
>> on David Irving in her criticism of his dishonest historiography.
>
>Then that sounds like a judge with an agenda of his own. It's hard to 
>imagine any fair, unbiased judge going that far overboard in ruling for a 
>defendant.
>
>Am I correct in understanding from this that there was no jury, and the 
>verdict was entirely up to the judge? Is this the usual case for libel or 
>defamation trials in the UK?
>
The judge did say, that "hard evidence" for the holocaust™ was hard to
find. The holocaust™ basically amounts to a blizzard of paper,
supposedly "confessions" and various German documents whose originals
appear to have vanished, so that nobody can accuse them of having been
forged.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:35 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another problem with the Zyklon B stories
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 23:12:21 +0200, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article <5b2dnRpU26FEJuXUnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews.com>, "Neil
>Harrington"  wrote:
>
>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>> > In article , "Ben
>> > Cramer"  wrote:
>> >
>> [ . . . ]
>> >
>> >> It's exactly what they did in the Iriving vs
>> >> Lipstadt event. They managed to baffle the poor ole judge with
>> >> bullshit. Took 'em $13m to do so though. In a case that was
>> >> frivilous.
>> >
>> > Wrong again. It was easy to demonstrate that David Irving was a
>> > dishonest historian. Even the two expert witnesses that he summoned
>> > to testify on his behalf turned against him. Far from being baffled,
>> > the "poor ole judge" chided Deborah Lipstadt for having gone to easy
>> > on David Irving in her criticism of his dishonest historiography.
>> 
>> Then that sounds like a judge with an agenda of his own. It's hard to 
>> imagine any fair, unbiased judge going that far overboard in ruling for a 
>> defendant.
>
>The judge was one of the UK's leading experts in libel law.

When you take judicial notice of the principal item in dispute, then
the trial becomes a farce.

>
>David Irving had brought suit against Deborah Lipstadt, for having written
>a critique of his historiography, and against Penguin Books Ltd., for
>habing published and distributed it in the UK. David Irving claimed that
>the book was libelous, had sullied his reputation as a historian, and had
>made it virtually impossible to continue earning a living by publishing
>works dealing with what he called "real history".
>
>
>
>> 
>> Am I correct in understanding from this that there was no jury, and the 
>> verdict was entirely up to the judge? Is this the usual case for libel or 
>> defamation trials in the UK?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:36 EST 2009
Article: 1985669 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "[Anti-Semitism] is an understandable reaction to Jewish defects"  - Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:27:56 -0800 (PST), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Jan 20, 9:54 am, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>> Kurt Knoll  wrote:
>> >The Jews are constant hate mongers. No wonder they do have a major problem.
>> >And the whole world knows it.
>>
>> The whole world certainly knows that Kurt Knoll has a major problem, in
>> that he is a documented, proven serial liar.
>   But what Nazi ISN'T?
>
>   Defense of Nazism requires dishonesty and invincible ignorance.

I have yet to see Kurt Knoll offer a "defence" of Nazism. He just
doesn't believe your stories, and that is a totally different thing.
Your stories are not credible, and that has nothing to do with Nazism.

If all you have to offer is character assassination, then you really
have nothing.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:36 EST 2009
Article: 1985672 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel, Nazis the same
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:17:04 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"someone-who-knows"  schreef in bericht 
>news:gl993a$egc$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> Ben Cramer  wrote:
>>
>>> Why don't you give the Palestinians a taste of freedom,
>>
>> Israel left Gaza,  remember?
>>
>idiot. go to a pawnshop and buy some brain cells 

Indeed, it was merely a case of the vicious guards moving from inside
the concentration camp to outside the concentration camp. Thanks to
Israeli efforts, there has been too little food, too little fuel, too
little electricity, too little medical care, etc. for the people of
Gaza because the vicious guards control the land, sea, and air access
to Gaza. What the Israelis are doing amounts to genocide. It appears
that the Israelis became impatient that their starvation blockade was
taking too long, and desided to accelerate the dying.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:36 EST 2009
Article: 1985673 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israel, Nazis the same
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:14:19 -0600, American Eagle  wrote:

>someone-who-knows wrote:
>> In article ,
>> Ben Cramer  wrote:
>> 
>>> Why don't you give the Palestinians a taste of freedom, 
>> 
>> Israel left Gaza,  remember?
>
>The Genociders ran out of Ammunition and fuel. America didn't resupply 
>the dirty bastards as demanded.

The USA is the evil hand behind Israel. They have supplied the
genocidal maniacs in Tel Aviv and Jerusalme for decades.

>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:37 EST 2009
Article: 1985684 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: sorry for bering palestinian, plse donot kill me
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:07:34 -0800 (PST), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matza_restaurant_suicide_bombing
>
>
>The Matza restaurant suicide bombing occurred on March 31, 2002, when
>a Palestinian Hamas suicide bomber detonated his bomb inside the Matza
>restaurant in Haifa, Israel, killing 15 people and injuring over 40.
>[1]
>
>The attack occurred at 14:45 during the Passover vacation in Israel,
>and the restaurant was crowded with families having their lunch.
>Despite the Passover suicide bombing which occurred just four days
>earlier in Netanya, and the tense atmosphere following it, the clients
>and restaurant owners were not particularly worried about security:
>The Matza restaurant is operated by an Israeli Arab family, and its
>multi-ethnic nature was thought to make it an unlikely choice for a
>terrorist attack.
>
>The military wing of Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack,
>stating that the bombings would continue as long as the siege of then
>President of the Palestinian National Authority, Yasser Arafat in
>Ramallah.[2]
>
> Victims
>Of the 15 victims, 14 were local Haifa residents, and one a waiter
>from a nearby town. Two families were completely wiped out, and other
>families suffered death and grave injuries to multiple family members.
>
>The Ron family lost father Aviel (54), daughter Anat (21) and son Ofer
>(17), leaving just the mother alive.
>The Koren family lost father Shimon (52), son Ran (18), and son Gal
>(15).
>Soheil Adawi (32), waiter
>Dov Chernobroda (47), architect
>Moshe Levin (52)
>Daniel Menchel (22)
>Orly Ofir (16), a soccer player on the Maccabi Haifa girls team.
>Yaacov Shani (53)
>Adi Shiran (17), high school student
>Daniel Carlos Wegman (51), engineer
>
>
>See also
>List of massacres committed during the Al-Aqsa Intifada
>Palestinian political violence

Lists of victims of Israeli crimes are dramatically longer than the
lists of Israeli victims you have drawn up here.

Israel is simply disgusting.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:37 EST 2009
Article: 1985686 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel's plan to invade Poland
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:45:21 -0800 (PST), Attalus Soter
 wrote:

>It is generally accepted among orthodox scholars that the plan to
>invade Poland was formulated by Wilhelm Keitel, and initiated on April
>3, 1939.  It is further asserted that the timing of the September 1,
>invasion was established at the time the plan was issued.
>
>Has that timing ever been disputed by revisionists?

The pentagon probably has plans in some filing cabinet to invade
Canada, but that is not exactly proof that they are planning such a
military adventure.

All countries have contingency plans for possible problems with
neighbours, and the Poles are not particularly easy neighbours to
tolerate.

Germany had very poor relations with Poland over the corridor seizures
for years prior to the National Socialists coming to power. There
would likely be military contingency plans to recover the corridor
territories long before the advent of the Nazis.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:37 EST 2009
Article: 1985689 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gaza 'Holocaust' vigil in Berlin
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:04:18 -0800, The Magic Jewgro
 wrote:

>In article <6trb6sFcdo89U1@mid.individual.net>, Heinrich@Ruhrgasnet.De says...
>> The National Democratic Party (NPD), a German neo-Nazi party, announced on 
>> its Web site Monday that it will hold a solemn vigil on January 27 in 
>> downtown Berlin to "stop the Israeli holocaust in the Gaza Strip."
>> 
>then they will ajourn to the public park for robust fucking ans sucking of hard 
>nazi cock

LOL

You sound like somebody with experience.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:38 EST 2009
Article: 1985690 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Report: Hamas Lied About Gaza Casualties
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:57:09 -0800, The Magic Jewgro
 wrote:

>Hamas needs to get buggered by a herd of goats

You seem to be projecting. Zoophilia is rather disgusting.

>
>In article , nospamhere@not.home says...
>> Italian journalist Lorenzo Cremonesi, who works with the Corriere
>> della serra newspaper, reported Thursday that Hamas had vastly
>> overstated the number of civilian deaths in Gaza. While Hamas claims
>> that 1,330 residents of Gaza were killed in the operation and
>> approximately 5,000 wounded, the real number of casualties was far
>> lower, Cremonesi says.
>> 
>> Cremonesi's report was based on his own findings after touring
>> hospitals in Gaza and talking to families of those killed or
>> wounded. "It is sufficient to visit several [Gaza] hospitals to
>> understand that the numbers don't add up", he explained.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Cremonesi estimated that between 500 to 600 people were killed in the
>> fighting. Most were young men between the ages of 17 and 23 who were
>> members of Hamas, he said.
>> 
>> Many hospitals had several empty beds, he reported. Hamas has stated
>> that Gaza hospitals are filled to capacity due to the large number of
>> victims, with many of the wounded being turned away due to the
>> shortage of doctors and supplies.
>> 
>> The Italian report also confirmed Israeli allegations that Hamas had
>> used civilians as human shields and used ambulances and United Nations
>> buildings in the fighting. Those who tried to drive the terrorists
>> away in order to protect their families were beaten.
>> 
>> Civilians told Cremonesi that they shouted at Hamas and Islamic Jihad
>> terrorists to leave the area to avoid drawing Israeli fire on
>> civilians. The terrorists responded by calling them
>> "traitors", "collaborators" and "cowards", and insisted that any
>> civilians killed would be martyrs destined for paradise.
>> 
>> Civilians also reported that Hamas terrorists disguised themselves as
>> paramedics and drove ambulances during the fighting. In addition,
>> terrorists launched rockets from UN buildings.  Many of these actions
>> are defined as war crimes.
>> 
>> "The knew they were weaker, but they wanted them [the Israelis] to
>> fire on our houses, so they could accuse them of war crimes", a
>> resident of the Gazan village Tel Awa explained.
>> 
>> Source:  http://www.nowpublic.com/world/report-hamas-lied-about-gaza-casualties
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:38 EST 2009
Article: 1985861 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:49:58 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:41:10 -0500, in
>, "Neil Harrington"
> wrote:
>
>> Gord McFee wrote:
>> > On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>> >> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"  wrote:
>> >>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>> >>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington" 
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>> >>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's victory over
>> >>>>>> Hitler and the Nazis with a military parade.
>> >>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently have made a
>> >>>>> much bigger impression on the Russians than he did on us, because
>> >>>>> we've mostly forgotten about all that -- except for the constant
>> >>>>> exertions of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>> >>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't even recognize
>> >>>>> the name Hitler.
>> >>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was. The USSR lost 27
>> >>>> million dead, half of them civilians, in that war.
>> >>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million murdered" at
>> >>> Auschwitz?
>> >>
>> >>> No, it has never changed. The Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual
>> >>> count but a
>> >>> rough estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>> >>> scientists.
>> >>
>> >> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools for decades,
>> >> b'luto?
>> >
>> > They didn't.
>> >
>> >> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>> >
>> > Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny it too?
>> 
>> Are people who question any part of the Battle of Hastings accounts called 
>> "Battle of Hastings deniers"? 
>
>People don't deny the Battle of Hastings, Neil.

Perhaps not, Gordie, but if they did, few people would care. The
holocaust™, on the other hand, is a religious cult whose adherents are
trying to foist their fables on everybody else using coercion and
threats.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:38 EST 2009
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:18:18 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:13 +1000, in
><35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:pefin4tkr73tro8of4f87l54ajvhcjg2jc@4ax.com...
>> > On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:42 +1000, in
>> > , "Ben Cramer"
>> >  wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>> >> news:4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>> >> > On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >> On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"  wrote:
>> >> >>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>> >> >>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington"  wrote:
>> >> >>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>> >> >>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's victory over 
>> >> >>>>>> Hitler
>> >> >>>>>> and the Nazis with a military parade.
>> >> >>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently have made a much
>> >> >>>>> bigger impression on the Russians than he did on us, because we've
>> >> >>>>> mostly forgotten about all that -- except for the constant 
>> >> >>>>> exertions
>> >> >>>>> of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it weren't for 
>> >> >>>>> them,
>> >> >>>>> most Americans probably wouldn't even recognize the name Hitler.
>> >> >>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was. The USSR lost 27
>> >> >>>> million dead, half of them civilians, in that war.
>> >> >>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million murdered" at 
>> >> >>> Auschwitz?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> No, it has never changed. The Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual count
>> >> >>> but a
>> >> >>> rough estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>> >> >>> scientists.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools for decades,
>> >> >> b'luto?
>> >> >
>> >> > They didn't.
>> >>
>> >> They certainly did in Australia. Until quite recently actually.
>> >
>> > What a horrible indictment of the Australian education system (if
>> > true).
>> 
>> Really? Not a horrible indictment of the stinky yids who permitted this lie 
>> to have been perpetuated for decades?
>
>If the Australian education system is that screwed up, it is beyond
>rescue.
>
>> >> Why do you lie about this?
>> >
>> > I am not a denier; I have no need to lie.
>> 
>> You are most certainly a denier. You deny any and all the right to closely 
>> scrutinise the yid's most productive extortion racket. That makes you a liar 
>> of monumental proportion.
>> >
>> >> >> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>> >> >
>> >> > Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny it too?
>> >>
>> >> Oh dear. Now ole gourd is changing the subject.
>> >
>> > No, I am not.
>> 
>> You most certainly attempted to do so.
>> 
>> >The fact that you are too stupid to understand the
>> > connection is not my fault.  Of course, the fact is that you *do*
>> > understand the connection and are fleeing again.
>> 
>> Oh god. Ole gourd has been forced to his "you're fleeing" b'ullshit again.
>> 
>> Your analogy is pathetic, gourd. Your entire argument base is pathetic. YOU 
>> are pathetic.
>
>All you deniers ever can do when invited to debate is insults and ad
>hominem.

Nonsense, those bankrupt techniques are your specialty.

>That is because you have no case.  All you have is hatred.

Take a good look at yourself in the mirror sometime, Gord. You may be
shocked.

>It must suck to be you.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:39 EST 2009
Article: 1986090 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel's plan to invade Poland
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 09:33:25 -0800 (PST), Attalus Soter
 wrote:

>On Jan 22, 6:41 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:45:21 -0800 (PST),AttalusSoter
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >It is generally accepted among orthodox scholars that the plan to
>> >invade Poland was formulated by Wilhelm Keitel, and initiated on April
>> >3, 1939.  It is further asserted that the timing of the September 1,
>> >invasion was established at the time the plan was issued.
>>
>> >Has that timing ever been disputed by revisionists?
>>
>> The pentagon probably has plans in some filing cabinet to invade
>> Canada, but that is not exactly proof that they are planning such a
>> military adventure.
>>
>> All countries have contingency plans for possible problems with
>> neighbours, and the Poles are not particularly easy neighbours to
>> tolerate.
>>
>> Germany had very poor relations with Poland over the corridor seizures
>> for years prior to the National Socialists coming to power. There
>> would likely be military contingency plans to recover the corridor
>> territories long before the advent of the Nazis.
>
>That certainly makes sense.  The same though crossed my mind.  I have
>not read the book, but extensive reviews of Suvorov's _Icebreaker_
>reveal that he contends that the German move into Poland was a
>tactical exigency to counter immanent Soviet aggression.

The Soviet officials were not exactly saints, it is true, and Russia
in all forms has a long history of expansionism.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:39 EST 2009
Article: 1986553 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com>   <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>   
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:54:32 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/24/2009 6:38 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:18:18 -0500, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:13 +1000, in 
>>> <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:pefin4tkr73tro8of4f87l54ajvhcjg2jc@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:42 +1000, in 
>>>>> , "Ben Cramer" 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>  On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> victory over Hitler and the Nazis with a military
>>>>>>>>>>>> parade.
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently
>>>>>>>>>>> have made a much bigger impression on the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>> than he did on us, because we've mostly forgotten
>>>>>>>>>>> about all that -- except for the constant exertions
>>>>>>>>>>>  of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>>>>>>>>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>> even recognize the name Hitler.
>>>>>>>>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was.
>>>>>>>>>> The USSR lost 27 million dead, half of them
>>>>>>>>>> civilians, in that war.
>>>>>>>>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million
>>>>>>>>> murdered" at Auschwitz? No, it has never changed. The
>>>>>>>>> Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual count but a rough
>>>>>>>>> estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>>>>>>>>>  scientists.
>>>>>>>> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools
>>>>>>>> for decades, b'luto?
>>>>>>> They didn't.
>>>>>> They certainly did in Australia. Until quite recently
>>>>>> actually.
>>>>> What a horrible indictment of the Australian education system
>>>>> (if true).
>>>> Really? Not a horrible indictment of the stinky yids who
>>>> permitted this lie to have been perpetuated for decades?
>>> If the Australian education system is that screwed up, it is beyond
>>>  rescue.
>>> 
>>>>>> Why do you lie about this?
>>>>> I am not a denier; I have no need to lie.
>>>> You are most certainly a denier. You deny any and all the right
>>>> to closely scrutinise the yid's most productive extortion racket.
>>>> That makes you a liar of monumental proportion.
>>>>>>>> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>>>>>>> Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny
>>>>>>> it too?
>>>>>> Oh dear. Now ole gourd is changing the subject.
>>>>> No, I am not.
>>>> You most certainly attempted to do so.
>>>> 
>>>>> The fact that you are too stupid to understand the connection
>>>>> is not my fault.  Of course, the fact is that you *do* 
>>>>> understand the connection and are fleeing again.
>>>> Oh god. Ole gourd has been forced to his "you're fleeing"
>>>> b'ullshit again.
>>>> 
>>>> Your analogy is pathetic, gourd. Your entire argument base is
>>>> pathetic. YOU are pathetic.
>>> All you deniers ever can do when invited to debate is insults and
>>> ad hominem.
>> 
>> Nonsense, those bankrupt techniques are your specialty.
>
>You are dismissed until you answer the question I put to you, from which
>you have been running.  Off you go.

LOL

You're a funny man, Gourd.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:39 EST 2009
Article: 1986555 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:03:40 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:B%Mel.141217$zQ4.131398@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 1/24/2009 6:38 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:18:18 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:13 +1000, in 
>>>> <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:pefin4tkr73tro8of4f87l54ajvhcjg2jc@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:42 +1000, in 
>>>>>> , "Ben Cramer" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>  On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> victory over Hitler and the Nazis with a military
>>>>>>>>>>>>> parade.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently
>>>>>>>>>>>> have made a much bigger impression on the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>> than he did on us, because we've mostly forgotten
>>>>>>>>>>>> about all that -- except for the constant exertions
>>>>>>>>>>>>  of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>>>>>>>>>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> even recognize the name Hitler.
>>>>>>>>>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was.
>>>>>>>>>>> The USSR lost 27 million dead, half of them
>>>>>>>>>>> civilians, in that war.
>>>>>>>>>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million
>>>>>>>>>> murdered" at Auschwitz? No, it has never changed. The
>>>>>>>>>> Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual count but a rough
>>>>>>>>>> estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>>>>>>>>>>  scientists.
>>>>>>>>> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools
>>>>>>>>> for decades, b'luto?
>>>>>>>> They didn't.
>>>>>>> They certainly did in Australia. Until quite recently
>>>>>>> actually.
>>>>>> What a horrible indictment of the Australian education system
>>>>>> (if true).
>>>>> Really? Not a horrible indictment of the stinky yids who
>>>>> permitted this lie to have been perpetuated for decades?
>>>> If the Australian education system is that screwed up, it is beyond
>>>>  rescue.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you lie about this?
>>>>>> I am not a denier; I have no need to lie.
>>>>> You are most certainly a denier. You deny any and all the right
>>>>> to closely scrutinise the yid's most productive extortion racket.
>>>>> That makes you a liar of monumental proportion.
>>>>>>>>> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>>>>>>>> Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny
>>>>>>>> it too?
>>>>>>> Oh dear. Now ole gourd is changing the subject.
>>>>>> No, I am not.
>>>>> You most certainly attempted to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that you are too stupid to understand the connection
>>>>>> is not my fault.  Of course, the fact is that you *do* understand the 
>>>>>> connection and are fleeing again.
>>>>> Oh god. Ole gourd has been forced to his "you're fleeing"
>>>>> b'ullshit again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your analogy is pathetic, gourd. Your entire argument base is
>>>>> pathetic. YOU are pathetic.
>>>> All you deniers ever can do when invited to debate is insults and
>>>> ad hominem.
>>>
>>> Nonsense, those bankrupt techniques are your specialty.
>>
>> You are dismissed until you answer the question I put to you, from which
>> you have been running.  Off you go.
>
>Hahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>The old "you're fleeing" tactic again.
>
>You are soooooooo predictable, gourd. You never fail to disappoint.
>
Poor Gourd is a great source of laughter. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:40 EST 2009
Article: 1986558 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:58:03 -0500, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 1/23/2009 6:54 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 22:49:58 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:41:10 -0500, in
>>> , "Neil Harrington"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"  wrote:
>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's victory over
>>>>>>>>>> Hitler and the Nazis with a military parade.
>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently have made a
>>>>>>>>> much bigger impression on the Russians than he did on us, because
>>>>>>>>> we've mostly forgotten about all that -- except for the constant
>>>>>>>>> exertions of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>>>>>>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't even recognize
>>>>>>>>> the name Hitler.
>>>>>>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was. The USSR lost 27
>>>>>>>> million dead, half of them civilians, in that war.
>>>>>>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million murdered" at
>>>>>>> Auschwitz?
>>>>>>> No, it has never changed. The Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual
>>>>>>> count but a
>>>>>>> rough estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>>>>>>> scientists.
>>>>>> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools for decades,
>>>>>> b'luto?
>>>>> They didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>>>>> Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny it too?
>>>> Are people who question any part of the Battle of Hastings accounts called 
>>>> "Battle of Hastings deniers"? 
>>> People don't deny the Battle of Hastings, Neil.
>> 
>> Perhaps not
>
>You are dismissed.

That isn't in your power.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:40 EST 2009
Article: 1986561 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:07:52 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:u4Nel.141222$zQ4.50911@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 1/23/2009 10:23 AM, Neil Harrington wrote:
>>
>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:41:10 -0500, in 
>>>> , "Neil Harrington" 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Gord McFee wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>>>>>> Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny it
>>>>>> too?
>>>>> Are people who question any part of the Battle of Hastings
>>>>> accounts called "Battle of Hastings deniers"?
>>>> People don't deny the Battle of Hastings, Neil.
>>>
>>> I shouldn't think they would. I'd also be very surprised if there
>>> were no facts or assumed facts about it that were never questioned or
>>> disputed.
>>>
>>> And I'd be absolutely ASTONISHED if anyone who did question or
>>> dispute any of the beliefs about the Battle of Hastings could be
>>> thrown in prison for doing so. Especially in what we euphemistically
>>> call "the free world."
>>>
>>> See the difference, Gord?
>>
>> I see you employing the classic denier dogma that denial of something is
>> the same as questioning it.
>
>That's what the yids have declared it to mean, stupid, forgetful old man.
>
Gourd keeps babbling about the old "denier" terminology. Their whole
argument is an empty shell consisting of name-calling. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:40 EST 2009
Article: 1986562 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Keitel's plan to invade Poland
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 10:30:16 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:MyMel.141204$zQ4.109755@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 1/23/2009 1:25 AM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>> news:hfgin4dm1ib4jr6r8dqukooorbkvi5pn78@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 09:45:21 -0800 (PST), in 
>>>> <6fa8e944-8a32-4981-b458-7f1bcf4b42e8@s36g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>  Attalus Soter  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It is generally accepted among orthodox scholars that the plan to
>>>>>  invade Poland was formulated by Wilhelm Keitel, and initiated on
>>>>> April 3, 1939.  It is further asserted that the timing of the
>>>>> September 1, invasion was established at the time the plan was
>>>>> issued.
>>>> No it isn't.
>>>
>>> Really? You can prove that, of course?
>>
>> If you knew the facts rather than just being an ignorant bigot, you
>> wouldn't even ask such a stupid question.
>
>I see - "Because I say so" is evidence enough when used by you lot, huh?
>
>Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, laddie.

Gourd has consistently used "proof by assertion" on this newsgroup.
Fundamentally, Gourd has nothing to say.

>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:41 EST 2009
Article: 1986570 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazi murder of priests and nuns
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:51:11 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>And who gives an outcasts like you to exist. We would have peace on earth 
>without you hate mongers.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:glflfq$u1h$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>   http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=472
>>
>>   "There is no disputing the simple fact that the Jews were
>> the principal victims of the Third Reich. It was an essential
>> tenet of the Nazi creed that the New Europe could not be born
>> until every Jew on the continent had been exterminated. And
>> the Nazis went about their task with inhuman efficiency.
>>
>>   Yet Nazi hatred was expansive, even ambitious. It embraced
>> Slavs and Gypsies; pacifists and Communists; Soviet POWs; Catholic
>> priests, monks, nuns, lay brothers and seminarians; Jehovah's
>> Witnesses and Protestant pastors; and anyone with a physical or
>> mental impairment. Nazi hatred knew no limits, and by
>> 1945 at least five million gentiles had fallen victim to it."
>>
>>   "The Catholic Church in Poland was especially hard hit by
>> the Nazis. In 1939, 80 percent of the Catholic clergy and five
>> of the bishops of the Warthegau region had been deported to
>> concentration camps. 




>In Wroclaw, 49.2 percent of the clergy were
>> dead;

"Wroclaw" didn't even exist during the NS period, and it certainly
wasn't Polish. Breslau was a German city from its founding not quite
eight hundred years ago until 1946. 

{Sorry Kurt, I couldn't let that nonsense pass without comment.}






 in Chelmno, 47.8 percent; in Lodz, 36.8 percent; in Poznan,
>> 31.1. In the Warsaw diocese, 212 priests were killed; 92 were
>> murdered in Wilno, 81 in Lwow, 30 in Cracow, thirteen in Kielce.
>> Seminarians who were not killed were shipped off to Germany as
>> forced labor."
>>
>>   "A Polish Martyrology for 1939-45 lists six bishops, 2,030
>> priests, 127 seminarians, 173 lay brothers and 243 nuns murdered
>> by the Nazis."
>>
>> RJ. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:41 EST 2009
Article: 1986572 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Already in 1925,  Hitler was obsessed with gassing Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 18:45:17 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Interesting waht you claim and we have no way to verify it.

RJ11 doesn't read very well. Hitler was talking about the WW1 poison
gas attacks he had experienced, and RJ11 is distorting the comments to
mean something that he wants them to mean. 

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:glflsn$u80$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>   "If at the beginning of the War [WW1] and during the War twelve
>> or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had
>> been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands
>> of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of
>> millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary:
>> twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the
>> lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future." -- Vol. 2,
>> chapter 15 of Hitler's "Mein Kampf",  1925.
>>
>>   This is quite "modest",  compared to what Hitler eventually
>> did -- after all,  it was only 1925,  and he was being careful
>> with what he said -- but there you have all of his psychosis:  he
>> believed that by gassing Jews,  he will "save" Germany.  A very
>> revealing paragraph which "revisionists" find especially infuriating
>> -- not because they don't agree with it,  but because it refutes
>> their "thesis".
>>
>> RJ. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:42 EST 2009
Article: 1986575 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Already in 1925,  Hitler was obsessed with gassing Jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 17:17:51 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"I'll Always Be 25-01-09"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B9DD347FD24CTheonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:7lQel.6793$PH1.5684@edtnps82:
>>
>>> I never did read anything Hitler wrote and do not even care about it.
>>
>> Of course you don't. He killed millions of germans and you would never
>> want to know why. Why is that?
>
>The only explanation I do have is yours how can I read what the other side 
>has to explain.

It is interesting how "I'll always be" portrays allied atrocities as
being "Hitler's fault". Atrocities are the responsibility of the
people who did them, so allied atrocities are the responsibility of
the allies and nobody else.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>> What I care about is about you falsehood
>>
>> You mean like your falsehood that 45000 people died in a single air raid
>> on Nuremberg? Or do you mean like your falsehood that german ships were
>> harassed by the british prior to WW2?
>>
>>
>> and I would not trust a cook
>>> sucker like you if you paid me for it.
>>
>>
>> What makes you think anyone would pay you for anything? Isn't that why you
>> went out of business?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>> news:jeCdnXtqWNjfUObUnZ2dnUVZ_sWWnZ2d@vex.net...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Kurt Knoll  wrote:
>>>>>Who care about what Hitler wrote I want to know what was written in the
>>>>>German news papers about the sanctions that were imposed on to Germany
>>>>>and the hate mongering against the Germans by the Jews.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently YOU care what Hitler wrote, since it was YOU who asked how
>>>> YOU could verify a quote from Mein Kampf.
>>>>
>>>> Now you claim you do not care.
>>>>
>>>> It must be difficult to spend one's life as confused as you clearly
>>>> are.
>>>>
>>>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:K5ydnXACL7Q5PubUnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@vex.net...
>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>> Kurt Knoll  wrote:
>>>>>>>Lets face the facts sucker about world war II only what the Germans
>>>>>>>are allowed to read is what the can read. Can you tell us what was
>>>>>>>written in
>>>>>>>the German news paper from 1918 till 1939.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you trying to change the subject, Herr Knoll? We were talking
>>>>>> about why you were incapable of reading Mein Kampf, not German
>>>>>> newspapers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>>>>>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>>>>>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>>>>>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>>>>>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>>>>>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>>>>>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>>>>>> as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>>>>>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>>>>>> have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>>>>>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>>>>>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>>>>>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>>>>>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>>>>>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>>>>>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>>>>>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>>>>>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>>>>>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have
>>>>>> claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>>>>>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>>>>>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>>>>>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>>>>>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>>>>>> within the treaty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>>>>>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>>>>>> light" as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or
>>>>>> not materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are
>>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of
>>>>>> newspapers
>>>>>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim
>>>>>> about gassings at Dachau.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque
>>>>>> exists outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever
>>>>>> gassed there, as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>>>>>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>>>>>> claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is
>>>>>> so easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>>>>>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> "Since all you knowledge is coming out of your holocaust
>>>>>> Fairydale book I will not your naivety holding against
>>>>>> you." (K. Knoll, Leading Revisionist Scholar)
>>>>>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> 'I fully accept this, it's a fact. The discussion on Auschwitz, the gas
>>>> chambers and the Holocaust is finished ... it's useless to dispute it'.
>>>> (David Irving on Holocaust denial, as quoted by his Austrian lawyer)
>>>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:42 EST 2009
Article: 1986577 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: pope rehabilitates holocaust denier
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 07:43:58 +0000 (UTC), NoSpamAtAll
 wrote:

>In article <6u2a1pFd2f9dU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Heinrich  wrote:
>
>> VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict Saturday rehabilitated a 
>> traditionalist bishop who denies the Holocaust,
>
>What do you expect from a fucking Krout who was in the Hitler Youth?
>
What do you expect from a fucking illiterate moron and bigot who
cannot even spell his hate objects correctly? Krout???  LOL


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:43 EST 2009
Article: 1986580 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kenneth McVay and Nizkor are a fraud. They do NOTHING to inform, they just spread propaganda.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <6krpn4t2o66ldgslectgcngn9er0c80moo@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:03:53 -0600, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Zulu wrote
>         in message <497cb0d7@news.x-privat.org>: 
>
>>However, as most of my inquiries related with specific facts or documents have been 
>>remained without any ANSWER or even consideration I can assume that McVay and his 
>>collaborators on the Nizkor site are a COMPLETE FRAUD.
>
>You can assume that if you like.
>
>The rest of us notice that with all your "inquiries" (actually phrased
>as demands) you have *yet* to get off your but and make any attempt to
>locate the information you insist someone else hand you on a plate.
>You justify this by maintaining that this information you have never
>seen will support your irrational denial of history.
>
>And so, you are simply not worth anyone's time.

He is much more informative than you have ever been, Roger.

>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:44 EST 2009
Article: 1986891 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:03:14 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:i1qpn4p5rsjtrteqtkl7ot34lrlr3cvq6b@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:54:32 -0500, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 1/24/2009 6:38 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:18:18 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:13 +1000, in
>>>>> <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:pefin4tkr73tro8of4f87l54ajvhcjg2jc@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:42 +1000, in
>>>>>>> , "Ben Cramer"
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>  On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> victory over Hitler and the Nazis with a military
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have made a much bigger impression on the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>>> than he did on us, because we've mostly forgotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all that -- except for the constant exertions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> even recognize the name Hitler.
>>>>>>>>>>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The USSR lost 27 million dead, half of them
>>>>>>>>>>>> civilians, in that war.
>>>>>>>>>>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million
>>>>>>>>>>> murdered" at Auschwitz? No, it has never changed. The
>>>>>>>>>>> Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual count but a rough
>>>>>>>>>>> estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>>>>>>>>>>>  scientists.
>>>>>>>>>> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools
>>>>>>>>>> for decades, b'luto?
>>>>>>>>> They didn't.
>>>>>>>> They certainly did in Australia. Until quite recently
>>>>>>>> actually.
>>>>>>> What a horrible indictment of the Australian education system
>>>>>>> (if true).
>>>>>> Really? Not a horrible indictment of the stinky yids who
>>>>>> permitted this lie to have been perpetuated for decades?
>>>>> If the Australian education system is that screwed up, it is beyond
>>>>>  rescue.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do you lie about this?
>>>>>>> I am not a denier; I have no need to lie.
>>>>>> You are most certainly a denier. You deny any and all the right
>>>>>> to closely scrutinise the yid's most productive extortion racket.
>>>>>> That makes you a liar of monumental proportion.
>>>>>>>>>> The entire Holocaust(tm) thingie is a rough estimate.
>>>>>>>>> Not half as rough as the Battle of Hastings.  Do you deny
>>>>>>>>> it too?
>>>>>>>> Oh dear. Now ole gourd is changing the subject.
>>>>>>> No, I am not.
>>>>>> You most certainly attempted to do so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that you are too stupid to understand the connection
>>>>>>> is not my fault.  Of course, the fact is that you *do*
>>>>>>> understand the connection and are fleeing again.
>>>>>> Oh god. Ole gourd has been forced to his "you're fleeing"
>>>>>> b'ullshit again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your analogy is pathetic, gourd. Your entire argument base is
>>>>>> pathetic. YOU are pathetic.
>>>>> All you deniers ever can do when invited to debate is insults and
>>>>> ad hominem.
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense, those bankrupt techniques are your specialty.
>>>
>>>You are dismissed until you answer the question I put to you, from which
>>>you have been running.  Off you go.
>>
>> LOL
>>
>> You're a funny man, Gourd.
>
>Funny "peculiar"
>
>Not funny "ha-ha."

I would have thought that he qualifies for a bit of both, Ben.  LOL

>
>
>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Jan 31 12:14:44 EST 2009
Article: 1986932 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German police ban Israeli flags
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References:   <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>       <5tudnd2P6vf9O-DUnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@giganews.com>
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 22:00:29 +1000, "B. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ui8rn4d096nj5hsue8eh6h6fl102ljlomn@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:03:14 +1000, "Ben Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:i1qpn4p5rsjtrteqtkl7ot34lrlr3cvq6b@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 24 Jan 2009 17:54:32 -0500, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 1/24/2009 6:38 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 23:18:18 -0500, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 23 Jan 2009 15:20:13 +1000, in
>>>>>>> <35adnYuAX_tUzuTUnZ2dnUVZ_tCWnZ2d@giganews.com>, "Ben Cramer"
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:pefin4tkr73tro8of4f87l54ajvhcjg2jc@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Jan 2009 19:50:42 +1000, in
>>>>>>>>> , "Ben Cramer"
>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:4x9dl.134697$9i5.122488@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1/18/2009 8:18 PM, Ben Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:a54133a2-c99a-472c-8776-16c3f4b3932c@e1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Jan 17, 10:09 am, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 15, 12:18 pm, "Neil Harrington"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every year, the Russian military celebrates it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> victory over Hitler and the Nazis with a military
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> parade.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. Every year, you say? Hitler evidently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have made a much bigger impression on the Russians
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than he did on us, because we've mostly forgotten
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about all that -- except for the constant exertions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  of the Holocaust promotion crowd, of course. If it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weren't for them, most Americans probably wouldn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even recognize the name Hitler.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> America was not invaded by the Nazis.The USSR was.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The USSR lost 27 million dead, half of them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilians, in that war.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is that 27 million something like the "4 million
>>>>>>>>>>>>> murdered" at Auschwitz? No, it has never changed. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Auschwitz 4 mil was not an actual count but a rough
>>>>>>>>>>>>> estimate based on faulty assumptions by Soviet forensic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  scientists.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why did the yids let the 4m number be taught in schools
>>>>>>>>>>>> for decades, b'luto?
>>>>>>>>>>> They didn't