The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/von.ebersdorf.johannes/usenet/2008/v.ebersdorf.200810


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:42 EDT 2008
Article: 1945239 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:05:31 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>Then you are pathetic as he is.  You are a bunch of mindless sheep who
>can only hate and can't think for themselves.  

Get off the pot, McFee. I don't hate either you or Jews. I just don't
buy into the legends of your cult.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1945240 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:43:46 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>You never tried to understand it, and you fool no one.  You came into
>the newsgroup looking for trouble, and you lack the basic decency to
>admit it.  You simply vomit your preprogrammed lines.  Sheep, Ben.

You are quite wrong here, McFee. This newsgroup is a discussion
vehicle for revisionists, whereas you have tried to transform it into
a trumpet for holocaust™ propaganda.

Set up your own newsgroup to trumpet your propaganda, but have the
basic courtesy to avoid disrupting the newsgroups of others.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1945241 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 06:54:20 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>"The real reason for Holocaust revisionism is to make National Socialism 
>a viable political alternative."

That is nonsense, Sara. I do not agree with most of the fundamental
notions within National Socialism nor do I agree with the foundation
myths of your holocaust™ cult.

Politically, I'm strictly at the centre of the political spectrum.
Most Americans I find are lunatic right.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1945242 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:49:57 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>Are you a Nazi,  B.H.?  You sure sound like one:

One could also ask whether you actually ARE an idiot, or only sound
like one.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:44 EDT 2008
Article: 1945243 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 16:23:00 -0700 (PDT), Karl
 wrote:

>On Oct 3, 8:44 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:catamont-50D943.06540503102008@news-40.giganews.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article ,
>> > Gord McFee  wrote:
>>
>> >> On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:24:45 +1000, in
>> >> , "B.H. Cramer"
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >> > "Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>> >> >news:02j4e4t5jsg1mc0unpkmlmb5s30frjevlu@4ax.com...
>> >> > > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:55:41 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>> >> > >  wrote:
>>
>> >> > >>"Karl"  wrote in message
>> >> > >>news:0810d9bd-51ba-4236-bcb3-3987368099d2@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> >> > >>On Sep 29, 7:10 pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> >> > >>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> >> > >>> Karl  wrote:
>> >> > >>> > I've never denied the holocaust Matthews. I question it, as
>> >> > >>> > should
>> >> > >>> > everyone.
>>
>> >> > >>> Where have you been at? You're forbidden from questioning any
>> >> > >>> aspect of
>> >> > >>> the jewish version of WW-ll.
>>
>> >> > >>> When a poor little persecuted jew tells you that he was gassed
>> >> > >>> 6-times
>> >> > >>> -
>> >> > >>> you must throw common sense out the window and believe.
>>
>> >> > >>> When jews talk of steam-rooms, mass electrocution chambers, soap
>> >> > >>> and
>> >> > >>> lampshades 'you must believe' even thou no evidence exists to
>> >> > >>> support
>> >> > >>> this lunacy, you must believe, failure to do so will get you
>> >> > >>> labeled as
>> >> > >>> Nazi, Anti-Semite.
>>
>> >> > >>>You've got that right.  That's the first thing 'they' do when you
>> >> > >>>first post here asking reasonable questions.
>>
>> >> > >>Dead right.
>>
>> >> > >>It's these dickheads who manufacture anti-semites and deniers.
>>
>> >> > > You are quite right. It was McVay and McFee who convinced me that the
>> >> > > holocaustT was a political instrument rather than an episode in
>> >> > > history.
>>
>> >> > Too right. I have a parallel experience.
>>
>> >> Then you are pathetic as he is.  You are a bunch of mindless sheep who
>> >> can only hate and can't think for themselves.
>>
>> >> > There were a few other names I must mention - Ron Goldman, Steve Wolk,
>> >> > William Daffer, Sara Salzman - they all played an integral part in
>> >> > making
>> >> > me
>> >> > realise, by dint of their over the top screeching, whining and
>> >> > nastiness,
>> >> > that they had something terribly fragile to protect.
>>
>> >> > I've enjoyed every step of the journey.
>>
>> >> No you haven't.
>>
>> >> [...]
>>
>> > I'm fascinated how a man murdered by OJ Simpson played an "integral
>> > part" in convincing Cramer of anything.
>>
>> What the fuck are you blathering about, you brain-dead twat?
>>
>>
>>
>> > But there is a stopped clock moment. The Holocaust IS a political
>> > instrument, used by deniers to rehabilitate Hitler and the Nazis. Harold
>> > Covington said it best, but it's nice to see that Cramer is willing to
>> > admit it.
>>
>> Oh dear. What a bunch of yid lies. Shoving unsaid words in my mouth is
>> typical of you, salzman.
>>
>
>Look at salzman's statement.  First of all she assumes that
>rehabilitating Hitler is in itself a bad idea.  Let's just say for a
>moment that the 'deniers' are right.  Wouldn't it then follow that
>Hitler has been, actually I think rehabilitated is the wrong word, how
>about vindicated.  Wouldn't it follow that if Hitler had not ordered
>the holocaust, then he should be vindicated of ordering the
>holocaust?  I would think so.  Look at her quote at the bottom of this
>post.  She doesn't even want people to say 'I don't know' when
>questioned about whether the holocaust happened.  In her dark, dank
>vision of society, questioning the party line is a no-no.

Hitler certainly isn't the sort of person I would likely support
politically, but I figure that the demonization of the guy has passed
all reasonable limits and that much of our resulting picture is
totally bogus.

>
>> > "The real reason for Holocaust revisionism is to make National Socialism
>> > a viable political alternative."
>>
>> Which is a lie, of course. But don't let that stop you from propagating it,
>> salzman. You've quite a history of spraying lies about willy-nilly.
>>
>>
>>
>> > --
>> > "I don't know" can be a very bad answer when it is disingenuous.
>> > You can't answer "I don't know if that happened" about the Holocaust.
>>
>> > - Penn Jillette, 7/3/08


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:44 EDT 2008
Article: 1945245 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:02:56 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>Why is it that you denier trash are incapable of independent thought?

One could reasonably ask the holocaust™ propagandists the same
question.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:44 EDT 2008
Article: 1945246 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:01:42 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>No, you are robots.

No McFee, you seem to be the mindless robot. You are totally illogical
and hysterical most of the time.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:45 EDT 2008
Article: 1945247 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 4 Oct 2008 13:13:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:b3nde492m6ads0on6r57avbsfre16g1qcm@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 12:50:39 +1000, in
>> <4eKdnaUHwJcWFXjVnZ2dnUVZ_qfinZ2d@giganews.com>, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>> news:q7vae4huk2bvuv74nuvfrv2tm6m6irf1qr@4ax.com...
>>> > On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:01:45 -0400, in
>>> > <02j4e4t5jsg1mc0unpkmlmb5s30frjevlu@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
>>> >  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:55:41 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>> >>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >"Karl"  wrote in message
>>> >> >news:0810d9bd-51ba-4236-bcb3-3987368099d2@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> >> >On Sep 29, 7:10 pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>>> >> >> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Karl  wrote:
>>> >> >> > I've never denied the holocaust Matthews. I question it, as 
>>> >> >> > should
>>> >> >> > everyone.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Where have you been at? You're forbidden from questioning any 
>>> >> >> aspect
>>> >> >> of
>>> >> >> the jewish version of WW-ll.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> When a poor little persecuted jew tells you that he was gassed
>>> >> >> 6-times -
>>> >> >> you must throw common sense out the window and believe.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> When jews talk of steam-rooms, mass electrocution chambers, soap 
>>> >> >> and
>>> >> >> lampshades 'you must believe' even thou no evidence exists to 
>>> >> >> support
>>> >> >> this lunacy, you must believe, failure to do so will get you 
>>> >> >> labeled
>>> >> >> as
>>> >> >> Nazi, Anti-Semite.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>You've got that right.  That's the first thing 'they' do when you
>>> >> >>first post here asking reasonable questions.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Dead right.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >It's these dickheads who manufacture anti-semites and deniers.
>>> >> >
>>> >> You are quite right. It was McVay and McFee who convinced me that the
>>> >> holocaustT was a political instrument rather than an episode in
>>> >> history.
>>> >
>>> > Good God, then you are even stupider than I thought, and that is going
>>> > some.
>>>
>>> Still can't accept responsibility for your actions, huh?
>>
>> I am not responsible for your stupidity.
>
>The stupidity resides within you clowns, old feller. Expecting us to swallow 
>your Holocaust(tm) horseshit wholesale, based on nothing else but "because I 
>say so."

Argument by assertion is their standard fare. They are illogical
air-heads.

>
>>
>>> > Why is it that you denier trash are incapable of independent thought?
>>>
>>> We are.
>>
>> No, you are robots.
>
>Balls. It's you clowns who are forced to work from a prepared script who are 
>the robots.
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:45 EDT 2008
Article: 1945249 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:47:08 -0600, Caduceus 
wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT), Honest Aryan
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>>>> Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>>>> 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>>>> (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>>>> in (thankfully).
>>>> Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>>>>   that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>>>> You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>>>      And what exactly did Britain 'win'?
>> 
>> They won the right to be America's foremost vassal state and principal
>> lackey.
>> 
>
>What we have here is a Kraut whose ass is still hurting from the ass
>kicking the American gave the Nazis.

The Americans were/are money people and war profiteers, nothing more.
Americans are among the world's most inept and unprofessional
soldiers. Their favourite targets are civilians, since they are the
safest to attack.

>
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From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:45 EDT 2008
Article: 1945250 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Education In Nazi Germany
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 03:54:56 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:0e780973-24e3-462c-97ee-848e5c424d3d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Thiis from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", by William Shirer,
>> page 343:
>
>Shirer's work has largely been discounted by real historians.

Poor Shirer was a totally incompetent babbler. Very little of his book
makes any sense.

>
>
>>
>> The result of so much Nazification was catastrophic for German
>> education and for German
>> learning. History was so falsified in the new textbooks and by the new
>> teachers that it became
>> ludicrous..
>>
>> The teaching of the natural sciences, in which Germany had been so pre-
>> eminent for generations, deteriorated rapidly. Great teachers such as
>> Franck in Physics, Haber and Warburg in Chemistry were fired or
>> retired. Those whio remained were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and
>> attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they
>> called
>> German Physics, German Chemistry, and German Mathematics.
>>
>> Tha hallucinations of these Nazi Scientists became unbelievable, even
>> to a layman.
>> "German Physics"?? asked Professor Philip Lenard of Heidelberg
>> University, one of the most renowned scientists of his day. Science is
>> international." It is false".
>>
>> Professor  Tomaschek, director of the Institutes of Physics ar
>> Dresden,wrote:
>> "Modern Physics" is an instrument of World Jewry for the destruction
>> of Nordic science." 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:46 EDT 2008
Article: 1945251 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Education In Nazi Germany
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:05:20 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:d86cac72-42b4-4294-a5c3-eb7aca8ae030@i76g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 30, 8:54 pm, "Truth Will Out" 
>wrote:
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:0e780973-24e3-462c-97ee-848e5c424d3d@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > Thiis from "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", by William Shirer,
>> > page 343:
>>
>> Shirer's work has largely been discounted by real historians.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > The result of so much Nazification was catastrophic for German
>> > education and for German
>> > learning. History was so falsified in the new textbooks and by the new
>> > teachers that it became
>> > ludicrous..
>>
>> > The teaching of the natural sciences, in which Germany had been so pre-
>> > eminent for generations, deteriorated rapidly. Great teachers such as
>> > Franck in Physics, Haber and Warburg in Chemistry were fired or
>> > retired. Those whio remained were bitten by the Nazi aberrations and
>> > attempted to apply them to pure science. They began to teach what they
>> > called
>> > German Physics, German Chemistry, and German Mathematics.
>>
>> > Tha hallucinations of these Nazi Scientists became unbelievable, even
>> > to a layman.
>> > "German Physics"?? asked Professor Philip Lenard of Heidelberg
>> > University, one of the most renowned scientists of his day. Science is
>> > international." It is false".
>>
>> > Professor Tomaschek, director of the Institutes of Physics ar
>> > Dresden,wrote:
>> > "Modern Physics" is an instrument of World Jewry for the destruction
>> > of Nordic science."- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>>PROOF????????????????????????
>
>For a start, historians do NOT take the work of a fucking journalist as 
>scholarship, you fucking retard.

Shirer wasn't even a good journalist. His book is complete trash.

>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:46 EDT 2008
Article: 1945252 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fewer killed in Dresden attack than previously thought.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 13:19:28 +1300, "Tilly" 
wrote:

>New commission finds some 25,000 killed, far fewer than previous reports

Obviously the current regime in Germany needed to counter the negative
impact of people pointing out Dresden, so they put together a
"political" commission to deflate the impact of Dresden. It is in the
best tradition of the Communists in the former USSR, who figured that
history was bunk designed to deceive the masses in the interests of
the people in power.

If if one were to discount the 400,000 refugees in the city from the
east and only focus on the 650,000 regular residents, a death toll of
only 25,000 would be totally at variance with experiences in other
German cities in which a fire-store occurred. The commission's claimed
casualty list would amount to a survival rate of 975,000/1,000,000 or
97.5% if one takes the refugees into account, or 625,000/650,000 =
96.2% if one ignores the refugees. Either number is totally
preposterous given that in Hamburg, where people had dramatically
superior protection from bombing, the survival rate in the fire-storm
area was only 55%.

If I were to take the findings of the "commission" seriously, then a
sun-umbrella would have been more than adequate protection from the
rain of allied explosives and incendiaries, since according to the
claims, 97.5% of the people camped in tents in parks and wooden wagons
in the streets survived the 950°C temperatures in the streets caused
by the fire storm.
>
>
>BERLIN - The Allied firebombing of the eastern German city of Dresden in 
>1945 killed no more than 25,000 people - far fewer than scholars' previous 
>estimates running as high as 135,000 - a special commission has found.
>
>The team of a dozen experts, including university professors, archivists and 
>military historians, said Wednesday that four years of research so far has 
>confirmed 18,000 deaths and showed that police and city administrators at 
>the time believed there were about 25,000 victims of the bombing.
>
>Since the end of World War II, scholars have varied in their tally of people 
>killed by waves of British and U.S. bombers on Feb. 13-14, 1945. Some 
>estimates have run to 135,000 or more. In his 2005 book on the bombing, 
>British historian Frederick Taylor argued the real toll was between 25,000 
>and 40,000
>
>The high civilian death toll in Dresden and the devastation of the 
>centuries-old city center have been a source of controversy for decades - as 
>has the dispute over whether the Allies were justified in targeting the 
>refugee-choked city. The Allies hoped the bombing would hurt the Nazis where 
>they would feel it most, and help force their capitulation.
>
>Recently, neo-Nazis in Germany have talked of 500,000 to 1 million victims, 
>calling the raid a "bombing Holocaust" and comparing it to Adolf Hitler's 
>murder of 6 million Jews. They accused Britain and the United States of 
>committing mass murder.
>
>It was after the far-right NPD party won seats in Saxony's parliament in 
>2004 and gave greater voice to these claims that state officials decided a 
>commission was needed to put the matter to rest.
>
>"The commission, in this preliminary report, believes there were a maximum 
>of 25,000 people who died during the February aerial attack," a team 
>statement said Wednesday. The research is to continue until 2009.
>
>Cowering in basements
>Nazi authorities had failed to provide adequate air raid shelters for 
>Dresden. That left people cowering in basements where many were asphyxiated 
>or buried by collapsing buildings. The town's anti-aircraft guns had been 
>removed for use against the approaching Soviets, letting the bomber crews 
>take undisturbed and deadly aim.
>
>The fire made superheated air rise rapidly, creating a vacuum at ground 
>level that produced winds strong enough to uproot trees and suck people into 
>the flames. Some who managed to get through the blinding sparks and fiery 
>debris staggered into the Grosser Garden park, where many were killed by a 
>second bomber wave.
>
>But the exact death toll has always been a question.
>
>Nazi propaganda from 1945 put the toll at some 200,000. Under communist East 
>Germany, authorities agreed upon 35,000. The neo-Nazis offered a sharply 
>inflated figure.
>
>The team of experts has pored through more than 2,600 linear feet (800 
>linear meters) of files in the Dresden state archives and interviewed dozens 
>of witnesses.
>
>The commission has also consulted studies on aerial attacks, rescue 
>operations, firefighting, and archaeological evidence.
>
>Despite the chaos during the final days of the war and the devastation of 
>the bombing, they said they found that records of the recovery and burial of 
>the dead from the raid was "remarkably orderly."
>
>"Through this work of the commission the victims get a face and a name," 
>said Dresden Mayor Helma Orosz. "Behind every single victim is ... suffering 
>and we should remember this."
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26977893/
>
>
>
>
>boffin@gmail.com
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:46 EDT 2008
Article: 1945253 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fewer killed in Dresden attack than previously thought.
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On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT), Karl
 wrote:

>On 1 Okt., 20:49, "Joe Bruno"  wrote:
>> "Karl"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:71b7d396-ec5a-484f-bdce-4ba20abdcc34@x35g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>> On 1 Okt., 20:29, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 1, 5:19 pm, "Tilly"  wrote:
>>
>> > > New commission finds some 25,000 killed, far fewer than previous reports
>>
>> > > BERLIN - The Allied firebombing of the eastern German city of Dresden in
>> > > 1945 killed no more than 25,000 people - far fewer than scholars'
>> > > previous
>> > > estimates running as high as 135,000 - a special commission has found.
>>
>> > > The team of a dozen experts, including university professors, archivists
>> > > and
>> > > military historians, said Wednesday that four years of research so far
>> > > has
>> > > confirmed 18,000 deaths and showed that police and city administrators
>> > > at
>> > > the time believed there were about 25,000 victims of the bombing.
>>
>> > > Since the end of World War II, scholars have varied in their tally of
>> > > people
>> > > killed by waves of British and U.S. bombers on Feb. 13-14, 1945. Some
>> > > estimates have run to 135,000 or more. In his 2005 book on the bombing,
>> > > British historian Frederick Taylor argued the real toll was between
>> > > 25,000
>> > > and 40,000
>>
>> > > The high civilian death toll in Dresden and the devastation of the
>> > > centuries-old city center have been a source of controversy for
>> > > decades - as
>> > > has the dispute over whether the Allies were justified in targeting the
>> > > refugee-choked city. The Allies hoped the bombing would hurt the Nazis
>> > > where
>> > > they would feel it most, and help force their capitulation.
>>
>> > > Recently, neo-Nazis in Germany have talked of 500,000 to 1 million
>> > > victims,
>> > > calling the raid a "bombing Holocaust" and comparing it to Adolf
>> > > Hitler's
>> > > murder of 6 million Jews. They accused Britain and the United States of
>> > > committing mass murder.
>>
>> > > It was after the far-right NPD party won seats in Saxony's parliament in
>> > > 2004 and gave greater voice to these claims that state officials decided
>> > > a
>> > > commission was needed to put the matter to rest.
>>
>> > > "The commission, in this preliminary report, believes there were a
>> > > maximum
>> > > of 25,000 people who died during the February aerial attack," a team
>> > > statement said Wednesday. The research is to continue until 2009.
>>
>> > > Cowering in basements
>> > > Nazi authorities had failed to provide adequate air raid shelters for
>> > > Dresden. That left people cowering in basements where many were
>> > > asphyxiated
>> > > or buried by collapsing buildings. The town's anti-aircraft guns had
>> > > been
>> > > removed for use against the approaching Soviets, letting the bomber
>> > > crews
>> > > take undisturbed and deadly aim.
>>
>> > > The fire made superheated air rise rapidly, creating a vacuum at ground
>> > > level that produced winds strong enough to uproot trees and suck people
>> > > into
>> > > the flames. Some who managed to get through the blinding sparks and
>> > > fiery
>> > > debris staggered into the Grosser Garden park, where many were killed by
>> > > a
>> > > second bomber wave.
>>
>> > > But the exact death toll has always been a question.
>>
>> > > Nazi propaganda from 1945 put the toll at some 200,000. Under communist
>> > > East
>> > > Germany, authorities agreed upon 35,000. The neo-Nazis offered a sharply
>> > > inflated figure.
>>
>> > > The team of experts has pored through more than 2,600 linear feet (800
>> > > linear meters) of files in the Dresden state archives and interviewed
>> > > dozens
>> > > of witnesses.
>>
>> > > The commission has also consulted studies on aerial attacks, rescue
>> > > operations, firefighting, and archaeological evidence.
>>
>> > > Despite the chaos during the final days of the war and the devastation
>> > > of
>> > > the bombing, they said they found that records of the recovery and
>> > > burial of
>> > > the dead from the raid was "remarkably orderly."
>>
>> > > "Through this work of the commission the victims get a face and a name,"
>> > > said Dresden Mayor Helma Orosz. "Behind every single victim is ...
>> > > suffering
>> > > and we should remember this."
>>
>> > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26977893/
>>
>> > > bof...@gmail.com
>>
>> > Just as long as some of the dead were Nazis, I'm happy.
>>
>> How do you know that there weren't any Jews killed/maimed?  You still
>> happy Bruno?
>>
>> Yes. I figure the death of one fucking Nazi saves at least 5 Jews.
>
>OK.  What about Gentiles?  How many Gentiles are worth one Jew?

To paraphrase the late unlamented Menachem Begin, the finger-nail of a
German child is worth a trillion Jews.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:47 EDT 2008
Article: 1945254 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fewer killed in Dresden attack than previously thought.
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 00:49:45 -0700, "Protagonist" 
wrote:

>Some 30,000 refuges were in the city of Dresden, sleeping in parks without 
>shelters.
>Where is the record , how many of them died?
>JS

Actually, the city was swollen to almost twice its normal size by the
huge columns of refugees from Silesia and West Prussia. The usual
estimate for the refugees was 400,000 and not 30,000.

>
>"Tilly"  wrote in message 
>news:gc142i$kle$1@aioe.org...
>> New commission finds some 25,000 killed, far fewer than previous reports
>>
>>
>> BERLIN - The Allied firebombing of the eastern German city of Dresden in 
>> 1945 killed no more than 25,000 people - far fewer than scholars' previous 
>> estimates running as high as 135,000 - a special commission has found.
>>
>> The team of a dozen experts, including university professors, archivists 
>> and military historians, said Wednesday that four years of research so far 
>> has confirmed 18,000 deaths and showed that police and city administrators 
>> at the time believed there were about 25,000 victims of the bombing.
>>
>> Since the end of World War II, scholars have varied in their tally of 
>> people killed by waves of British and U.S. bombers on Feb. 13-14, 1945. 
>> Some estimates have run to 135,000 or more. In his 2005 book on the 
>> bombing, British historian Frederick Taylor argued the real toll was 
>> between 25,000 and 40,000
>>
>> The high civilian death toll in Dresden and the devastation of the 
>> centuries-old city center have been a source of controversy for decades - 
>> as has the dispute over whether the Allies were justified in targeting the 
>> refugee-choked city. The Allies hoped the bombing would hurt the Nazis 
>> where they would feel it most, and help force their capitulation.
>>
>> Recently, neo-Nazis in Germany have talked of 500,000 to 1 million 
>> victims, calling the raid a "bombing Holocaust" and comparing it to Adolf 
>> Hitler's murder of 6 million Jews. They accused Britain and the United 
>> States of committing mass murder.
>>
>> It was after the far-right NPD party won seats in Saxony's parliament in 
>> 2004 and gave greater voice to these claims that state officials decided a 
>> commission was needed to put the matter to rest.
>>
>> "The commission, in this preliminary report, believes there were a maximum 
>> of 25,000 people who died during the February aerial attack," a team 
>> statement said Wednesday. The research is to continue until 2009.
>>
>> Cowering in basements
>> Nazi authorities had failed to provide adequate air raid shelters for 
>> Dresden. That left people cowering in basements where many were 
>> asphyxiated or buried by collapsing buildings. The town's anti-aircraft 
>> guns had been removed for use against the approaching Soviets, letting the 
>> bomber crews take undisturbed and deadly aim.
>>
>> The fire made superheated air rise rapidly, creating a vacuum at ground 
>> level that produced winds strong enough to uproot trees and suck people 
>> into the flames. Some who managed to get through the blinding sparks and 
>> fiery debris staggered into the Grosser Garden park, where many were 
>> killed by a second bomber wave.
>>
>> But the exact death toll has always been a question.
>>
>> Nazi propaganda from 1945 put the toll at some 200,000. Under communist 
>> East Germany, authorities agreed upon 35,000. The neo-Nazis offered a 
>> sharply inflated figure.
>>
>> The team of experts has pored through more than 2,600 linear feet (800 
>> linear meters) of files in the Dresden state archives and interviewed 
>> dozens of witnesses.
>>
>> The commission has also consulted studies on aerial attacks, rescue 
>> operations, firefighting, and archaeological evidence.
>>
>> Despite the chaos during the final days of the war and the devastation of 
>> the bombing, they said they found that records of the recovery and burial 
>> of the dead from the raid was "remarkably orderly."
>>
>> "Through this work of the commission the victims get a face and a name," 
>> said Dresden Mayor Helma Orosz. "Behind every single victim is ... 
>> suffering and we should remember this."
>>
>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26977893/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> boffin@gmail.com
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:47 EDT 2008
Article: 1945255 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fewer killed in Dresden attack than previously thought.
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 22:28:35 -0700 (PDT), alpy
 wrote:

>>
>> In other words: what does this all mean.
>>
>
>wasn't it a "firestorm" pretty unique in that people died of oxygen
>starvation more often than burning

In any fire, even those in Toronto from time to time, most fire deaths
are from toxic gases rather than the fire itself.

Firestorms frequently happen naturally in large forest fires. It is a
case of heated air rising above the fire, pulling in new air from all
directions near the ground. That in turn fans the fire, increasing the
speed of the cycle. The earth's rotation starts the air masses
turning, much like the air in a hurricane or tornado. In Dresden,
multi-ton streetcars were thrown through the air by the wind heading
inward toward the fire.

It is really hard to imagine a 98% survival rate for unprotected
people under those conditions. The German "commission" has to be a
postwar propaganda exercise.

The reason for the initial "Nazi" official figure of 202,000 was that
135,000 human remains had been recovered and experience in other
German cities indicated that for each corpse recovered, there was at
least one additional one that was beyond recovery, either buried,
dismembered or totally incinerated. Normally the projection would have
been 270,000 but obviously it was NOT in the political interests of
the NS regime to emphasize losses, so they low-balled the estimate to
202,040. When the Russians arrived on May 8, 1945, they simply took
the city records and struck the leading one off the figure of 135,000
leaving 35,000 as the "official" allied figure for many decades, until
this latest political commission decided to further deflate the
numbers by means of various scientific flim-flam to yield the totally
unbelievable and preposterous 98% survival rates.

Obviously they wasted their money in Hamburg with the construction of
practically indestructible air protection shelters that only produced
a 55% survival rate whereas simple canvas tents in Dresden produced a
98% survival rate. One should suggest canvas tents to all the victims
of American bombing attacks around the world.




From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:47 EDT 2008
Article: 1945256 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fewer killed in Dresden attack than previously thought.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 15:15:12 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>
>"Kosher Cunny"  wrote in message 
>news:gc4rik$6dg$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>> Getting cooked alive !
>>
>> Some people survive and write about it, i.e. Kurt Vonnegut.
>
>But poor old Kurt was daft enough to use Irvine as a source,  so his book 
>has lost most of its power these days.  You see it's just too easy to 
>rubbish anything that uses that well known Holocaust Denier and Hitler 
>Sympathiser as a source.

Lots of other people besides Irving have written about Dresden. Your
98% survival rates don't have much credibility.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:48 EDT 2008
Article: 1945258 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How Many Died in the Bombing of Dresden?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 19:22:31 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>The question of how many people died in the World War II Allied bombing of 
>Dresden has been politically charged for decades. Now, a commission of 
>historians has said the real total could be much lower than previously 
>thought. But the debate likely won't go away.
>
>
> Calculations of the death-toll from the Anglo-American bombing of Dresden 
>in February 1945 have varied widely, but never ceased to be dramatic. 
>Figures suggested have ranged from 35,000 through 100,000, and even up to 
>half a million at the wilder fringes of speculation.
>
>It is easy to see why. Dresden was a magnificent city of three quarters of a 
>million people, its population further swollen by hordes of anonymous 
>refugees from the Eastern Front. Its historic heart was destroyed in one 
>apocalyptic night by aircraft armed with more than 4,500 tons of high 
>explosive and incendiary bombs. This devastated area amounted to around 13 
>square miles (34 square kilometers).
>
>The firestorm that destroyed Dresden's architectural treasures and so much 
>of its civilian population became a byword for the horrors of modern warfare 
>and a stain on the Allies' claim to have fought a "good war" against Nazism. 
>This was a truly catastrophic event to which only very big numbers seemed 
>able to do justice.
>
>
>An Interactive Bird's Eye View of the Damage to Dresden
>Now, more than 60 years later, it seems we must lower our estimates. After 
>four years' work, an impressive commission of German historians this week 
>filed its report on this issue, and it seems that even the lowest figure so 
>far accepted may be an overestimate. Drawing on archival sources, many never 
>previously consulted, on burial records and scientific findings -- including 
>street-by-street archaeological investigations -- plus hundreds of 
>eye-witness reports, the "Dresden Commission of Historians for the 
>Ascertainment of the Number of Victims of the Air Raids on the City of 
>Dresden on 13/14 February 1945" has provisionally estimated the likely 
>death-toll at around 18,000 and definitely no more than 25,000.
>
>These conclusions, to be elaborated on in a full report due out next year, 
>are convincing. However, despite the eminence of the commission's experts, 
>including Germany's most distinguished historian of the air war, Dr. Horst 
>Boog, they will be controversial, especially in Dresden itself. Many of 
>those who lost families, homes and loved ones in the catastrophe have found 
>dignity and meaning in the sheer magnitude and dark grandeur of the event, 
>and to see the Dresden casualty figures reduced from the hundreds of 
>thousands to more "normal" (though still horrendous) levels seems 
>incredible, even insulting.
>
>And there are the political distortions. The Nazis were the first to 
>exaggerate the number of victims for propaganda purposes, and the communists 
>were liable to push the numbers up during the post-war period, in order to 
>discredit the Anglo-Americans, who had been the Soviets' allies until 1945 
>but were now their Cold War enemies. Finally, neo-Nazis in modern Germany 
>conjure up dizzyingly high figures running into the hundreds of thousands, 
>while at the same time playing down or denying the World War II mass murder 
>of the Jews and the Roma and Sinti, hoping thereby to convince their 
>fellow-citizens that the Allied bombing of Germany was an even worse 
>"holocaust" than the actual one.
>
>
>
>Hence the commission's establishment in 2004 was opposed by many in Dresden 
>and its work has since been subject to political chicanery. That it has 
>finally issued its report seems something of a miracle. And that its members 
>have courageously and doggedly followed the logic of the evidence, knowing 
>the unpopularity it may bring, speaks strongly for the integrity of the 
>historians involved.
>
>So can we say "case closed"? Almost certainly not. Many Dresdeners, 
>understandably, cling to their memories and traditions even in the face of 
>historical evidence. The far right will undoubtedly persist with a line of 
>propaganda central to its aim of undermining the democratic German state and 
>rehabilitating the Nazi past. For all these people, interpretation of the 
>Dresden death-toll will likely remain an article of faith rather than a 
>matter of fact.
>
>
>
>
Somebody will have to explain to me why canvas tents are more
effective against allied bombs than the hardened bomb shelters of
Hamburg that were built to withstand direct hits by 10,000 kg
air-mines.

If I believe this latest politically-motivated commission, then the
canvas tents produced an impressive 98% survival rate while the
massive air-shelters only a 55% survival rate.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:48 EDT 2008
Article: 1945329 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:08:58 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:ftjfe49jnrqgt90d9ff97oqa8ieunj5q2u@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:43:46 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>You never tried to understand it, and you fool no one.  You came into
>>>the newsgroup looking for trouble, and you lack the basic decency to
>>>admit it.  You simply vomit your preprogrammed lines.  Sheep, Ben.
>>
>> You are quite wrong here, McFee. This newsgroup is a discussion
>> vehicle for revisionists, whereas you have tried to transform it into
>> a trumpet for holocaustT propaganda.
>>
>> Set up your own newsgroup to trumpet your propaganda, but have the
>> basic courtesy to avoid disrupting the newsgroups of others.
>
>There are already many other newsgroups for them to infest, but they prefer 
>to stick around here, trying to defend their ridiculous Holocaust(tm) story 
>by deploying the age-old yid tactics of labeling, shooting the messenger, 
>changing the direction of uncomfortable conversations, lying, threatening 
>etc.
>
>This McFee character is supposedly an intelligent man who holds a senior 
>position within the Canadian Government. How the hell he manages to keep his 
>job, given the filth, hatred and downright inhuman content many of his posts 
>display, is beyond me. If the boot were on the other foot, and he was 
>attacking the hebes, his career would have ceased decades ago.

That is for sure. Saying anything critical of Jews is a
career-limiting move in North America and a possible jail sentence in
Germany.

>
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sun Oct  5 14:29:48 EDT 2008
Article: 1945330 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 10:05:07 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:rqjfe4hdodr8gpehrekrljgf0hgp79ohla@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:05:31 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Then you are pathetic as he is.  You are a bunch of mindless sheep who
>>>can only hate and can't think for themselves.
>>
>> Get off the pot, McFee. I don't hate either you or Jews. I just don't
>> buy into the legends of your cult.
>
>They won't buy that, Johannes. If you don't agree with them 110%, tug the 
>forelock, kiss their tushies etc., you're destined to forever be known as a 
>denier, denier trash, denier filth, anti-semite, jew-hater blah blah blah.
>
>I had never given the turds so much as a second though for decades until I 
>was attacked by the Holocaust(tm) pitbulls.
>
It is their shrill hysteria that makes me smell a rat and severely
doubt their stories. In many cases, the stories themselves are
patently ridiculous, like the jumping buckets of flesh or the geysers
of blood.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:20 EDT 2008
Article: 1945643 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:13:39 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:20:58 -0400, in
>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 22:43:46 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >You never tried to understand it, and you fool no one.  You came into
>> >the newsgroup looking for trouble, and you lack the basic decency to
>> >admit it.  You simply vomit your preprogrammed lines.  Sheep, Ben.
>> 
>> You are quite wrong here, McFee. This newsgroup is a discussion
>> vehicle for revisionists, whereas you have tried to transform it into
>> a trumpet for holocaust™ propaganda.
>
>I am afraid it is you who is wrong.  It is an open newsgroup and
>anyone can post and has been doing so since the early 1990s.  There
>are no revisionists posting here in any event.  Just a bunch of decent
>folks on one side and denier trash like you on the other.
> 
>> Set up your own newsgroup to trumpet your propaganda, but have the
>> basic courtesy to avoid disrupting the newsgroups of others.
>
>I can understand how a fair debate would scare denier trash like you.

LOL

You're an idiot, McFee.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:21 EDT 2008
Article: 1945644 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:21:12 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:27:51 -0400, in
><6dkfe4l902re9937rddet2oh4ttonieavj@4ax.com>, Johannes von Ebersdorf
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:02:56 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Why is it that you denier trash are incapable of independent thought?
>> 
>> One could reasonably ask the holocaust™ propagandists the same
>> question.
>
>The difference is that the honest folks here *are* capable of
>independent thought.

There certainly is nothing honest about you, McFee. Your brain,
insofar as you ever had one, seems to have stopped working.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:22 EDT 2008
Article: 1945645 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 10:03:09 +1100, B J Foster 
wrote:

>princeandy wrote:
>> "Krudd the Dudd"  wrote in message 
>> news:20081005215843.5e5031fe@linux-k6os.site...
>...
>
>Anyone for genocide?
>
>Easy, join the revisionists!
>(and get a lobotomy)
>
>> 
>> no gassing at auschwitz
>> 
>
>"Denial
>
>Every genocide is followed by denial. The mass graves are dug up and 
>hidden.  The historical records are burned, or closed to historians. 
>Even during the genocide, those committing the crimes dismiss reports as 
>propaganda.  Afterwards such deniers are called 'revisionists'.

Revision is a NORMAL process in legitimate history. That the
holocaust™ needs protection from revision suggests very much that it
is not legitimate history.




>  Others 
>deny through more subtle means: by characterizing the reports as 
>'unconfirmed' or 'alleged' because they do not come from officially 
>approved sources; by minimizing the number killed; by quarreling about 
>whether the killing fits the legal definition of genocide 
>('definitionalism'); by claiming that the deaths of the perpetrating 
>group exceeded that of the victim group, or that the deaths were the 
>result of civil war, not genocide.  In fact, civil war and genocide are 
>not mutually exclusive.  Most genocides occur during wars".
>The 8 stages of genocide, Stage 8
>http://www.genocidewatch.org/8stages1996.htm


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:22 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <7ftie4hmrmu6d76pi466mnpshu3b22d8pf@4ax.com>
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On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 15:51:47 -0700 (PDT), MikeinCamden@aol.com wrote:

>On 5 Oct, 03:41, ZULU  wrote:
>> 1- Any British citizen enjoying his free speech rights in his country is potentially
>> extraditable to France or Germany.
>>
>> 2- Any citizen of any country is potentially extraditable to France or Germany by the
>> simple fact of being in UK soil.
>>
>> Amazing, isn't it?
>
>How to give so-called Holocaust denial more publicity and attract
>interest and sympathy for its cause. Remembering of course that
>Holcaust denial actually means disagreeing with anything the Zionists
>say and not necessarily what the title 'denial' suggests.

Yes, the word "denier" as used by McFee and consorts is NewSpeak for
anybody who has doubts about their fables.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:23 EDT 2008
Article: 1946805 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 19:14:09 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>
>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcdf76$io3$1@aioe.org...
>> William Black wrote:
>>
>>> "ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcd96f$bvd$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>>
>>>>My unanswered question:
>>>>
>>>>A - If "5,754,400 Jews were exterminated by nazis during W.W.II"
>>>>
>>>>Then,
>>>>
>>>>B- How many more died by natural causes, disease, accident, in combat or 
>>>>under bombings?
>>>>
>>>>C- What is FINALLY the total amount A + B of Jews died in Europe during 
>>>>W.W.II?
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.  Nobody cares.  People who are killed by legitimate military action 
>>> are tragic victims.
>>>
>>> 2.  People do care about murder.
>>>
>>
>> And bombings on civilians are not murders...
>>
>
>Nope.
>
>They weren't dropping bombs on the civilians.

The areas attacked by the allies were the medieval cores of old
cities. Who do you suppose lives there, other than civilians?

>
>Read the 'dehousing paper'.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1946809 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:27:43 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>William Black wrote:
>
>> "ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcdf76$io3$1@aioe.org...
>> 
>>>William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcd96f$bvd$1@aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>My unanswered question:
>>>>>
>>>>>A - If "5,754,400 Jews were exterminated by nazis during W.W.II"
>>>>>
>>>>>Then,
>>>>>
>>>>>B- How many more died by natural causes, disease, accident, in combat or 
>>>>>under bombings?
>>>>>
>>>>>C- What is FINALLY the total amount A + B of Jews died in Europe during 
>>>>>W.W.II?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>1.  Nobody cares.  People who are killed by legitimate military action 
>>>>are tragic victims.
>>>>
>>>>2.  People do care about murder.
>>>>
>>>
>>>And bombings on civilians are not murders...
>>> 
>> Nope.
>> 
>> They weren't dropping bombs on the civilians.
>> 
>> Read the 'dehousing paper'.
>> 
>
>Explain what were the military targets for Dresde, Hiroshima, Nagasaki...

The military target argument is false, especially if the topic is a
large area bombing. Even if Hiroshima had some installations of
military significance, it would not justify the destruction of the
whole city. Dresden, Hiroshima, and Nagazaki were all war crimes, as
was Tokyo before that. The allies are hypocrites and complete frauds.
There was nothing noble about the allied cause.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1946812 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 18:56:52 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>parris_k@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> On 7 Okt, 11:27, ZULU  wrote:
>> 
>>>William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>>"ZULU"  wrote in messagenews:gcdf76$io3$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>>>>William Black wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>"ZULU"  wrote in messagenews:gcd96f$bvd$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>>>>>>My unanswered question:
>>>
>>>>>>>A - If "5,754,400 Jews were exterminated by nazis during W.W.II"
>>>
>>>>>>>Then,
>>>
>>>>>>>B- How many more died by natural causes, disease, accident, in combat or
>>>>>>>under bombings?
>>>
>>>>>>>C- What is FINALLY the total amount A + B of Jews died in Europe during
>>>>>>>W.W.II?
>>>
>>>>>>1.  Nobody cares.  People who are killed by legitimate military action
>>>>>>are tragic victims.
>>>
>>>>>>2.  People do care about murder.
>>>
>>>>>And bombings on civilians are not murders...
>>>
>>>>Nope.
>>>
>>>>They weren't dropping bombs on the civilians.
>>>
>>>>Read the 'dehousing paper'.
>>>
>>>Explain what were the military targets for Dresde, Hiroshima, Nagasaki...-
>> 
>> 
>> Done several times. Your ignorance of history is hardly our problem,
>> Lulu-ladderboy.
>> 
>> Dresden was a railyway hub and marshalling yard, othe rmilitary
>> targets included a factory making optics for weapons.

None of those installations, if they indeed existed, were in the
downtown core of the city that was actually attacked. Dresden was a
war crime, as were the bulk of the attacks on German cities.

>> 
>> " Hiroshima was a city of some industrial and military significance. A
>> number of military camps were located nearby, including the
>> headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's
>> 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of
>> southern Japan.

An attack on those specific facilities might have had some
justification, but an attack on the whole city was and is a war crime.


> Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for
>> the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage
>> point, and an assembly area for troops" (wikipedia)
>> 
>> Nagasaki was a major port with lots of military industry.
>
>After exposing what tells the propaganda, what if you tell the truth?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1946813 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 14:38:20 +0100, "William Black"
 wrote:

>
>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcfa2t$55i$2@aioe.org...
>> William Black wrote:
>>
>.
>>>
>>> They weren't dropping bombs on the civilians.
>>>
>>> Read the 'dehousing paper'.
>>>
>>
>> Explain what were the military targets for Dresde, Hiroshima, Nagasaki...
>>
>
>Dresden was the rail yards.  It was bombed at the direct request of the USSR 
>to stop reinforcements reaching the front.

All German cities have rail yards. Trains were running through Dresden
again a few hours after the attack. The refugees from Silesia were the
target of the attack, not any supposed industrial or military targets.
The railway yards have been there for more than 150 years, but the
city had never been bombed previously. Obviously these features were
not considered very important except as a lame attempt to excuse an
obvious war crime.


>
>The other two had military headquarters within them.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1946816 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:00:15 +1100, B J Foster 
wrote:

>ZULU wrote:
>> B J Foster wrote:
>> 
>>> ZULU wrote:
>>>
>>>> B J Foster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ZULU wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article ,
>>>>>>> princeandy  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:48e89d4d$0$4449$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "ZULU"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>> news:gca5kv$hqb$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1- Any British citizen enjoying his free speech rights in his 
>>>>>>>>>>> country is potentially extraditable to France or Germany.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2- Any citizen of any country is potentially extraditable to 
>>>>>>>>>>> France or Germany by the simple fact of being in UK soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Amazing, isn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't know about amazing. Nothing amazes me about the perfidy 
>>>>>>>>>> of the yids.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What it is, is criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whatever. Hope he rots
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Typical response from the jews and friends, freedom ? they dont 
>>>>>>>> know what it is , look at israel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.html
>>>>>>>> I, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There 
>>>>>>>> are persons
>>>>>>>> with PhD's in various fields who
>>>>>>>> also deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Until
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is this "6 million canard," and which historians cite the 
>>>>>>> estimated
>>>>>>> Jewish death toll at 6 million?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't that magic "6 million" number valid anymore?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good, one more point revised!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The 6-million is a useful number because it self-identifies 
>>>>> denialists aka Nazis.
>>>>>
>>>>> No normal human being would regard the holocaust as less of a 
>>>>> holocaust if 5 million and not 6 million were murdered, and no 
>>>>> normal functioning person would regard it as less of a holocaust if 
>>>>> Poles not Germans were murdered.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's up to you whether you want to join the human race or not. Maybe 
>>>>> you'd like to comment on what an earthrise looks like from Pluto.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, can you answer that question now?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The DOGMA tells:
>>>>
>>>> A - The *revised* holokost is "5 to 6 millions" Jews exterminated by 
>>>> nazis during W.W.II"
>>>>
>>>> Then,
>>>>
>>>> B- How many more died by natural causes, disease, accident, in combat 
>>>> or under bombings?
>>>>
>>>> C- What is FINALLY the total amount A + B of Jews died in Europe 
>>>> during W.W.II?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why do you ask?
>> 
>> Because I don't know the answer.
>
>A = Holocaust victims
>B = Ingrown toenails
>
>A + B = ?

You don't seem to take the holocaust™ too seriously yourself, so why
the sanctimonious hypocrisy about the doubts of others?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1946819 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:32:18 +1100, B J Foster 
wrote:

>B.H. Cramer wrote:
>> 
>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>> news:48ea0b80$0$4450$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:48e9c3cc$0$4453$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>> Truth Will Out wrote:
>>>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:48e9440d$0$28217$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:48e8b023$0$18426$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>>>> princeandy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>> news:48e89d4d$0$4449$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "ZULU"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:gca5kv$hqb$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1- Any British citizen enjoying his free speech rights in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> his country is potentially extraditable to France or Germany.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2- Any citizen of any country is potentially extraditable to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> France or Germany by the simple fact of being in UK soil.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazing, isn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't know about amazing. Nothing amazes me about the perfidy 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the yids.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What it is, is criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever. Hope he rots
>>>>>>>>>> Which reflects the jewish contribution , they use the same 
>>>>>>>>>> rhetoric even if it is an honest jew trying to correct the lies 
>>>>>>>>>> and use of the lies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ah the Goebellian rat-a-tat-tat of the send button....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ever heard of Godwin's law? Well, you're #361
>>>>>>>> Cease with the whining, jew cunt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Listen up, fool. Your side surrendered in 1945.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please do as Ben asked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A woman, while at the funeral of her own mother, met a guy whom she 
>>>>> did not know. She thought this guy was amazing. She believed him to 
>>>>> be her dream guy so much, that she fell in love with him right 
>>>>> there, but never asked for his number and could not find him. A few 
>>>>> days later she killed her sister.
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: What is her motive for killing her sister?"
>>>>
>>>> What the fuck are you smoking, s'tupid m'oron?
>>>>
>>>
>>> See? No answer. Not a clue. ROTFL
>> 
>> I don't play stupid jew games, jew cunt.
>> 
>> Go away.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 's'tupid' 'm'oron
>>>>>>
>> 
>
>q.e.d.

Is BlowJob Foster another sock puppet for one of the regular players
or a totally new imbecile?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1946821 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4q3oe41dui1fg4vh6hvnhkuuref52i4p5p@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:14:10 +1100, B J Foster 
wrote:

>Truth Will Out wrote:
>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>> news:48e945e3$0$28217$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>>>> In article ,
>>>> princeandy  wrote:
>>>>> "B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:48e8a283$0$4448$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>> B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>>>>> "Krudd the Dudd"  wrote in 
>>>>>>> message news:20081005215843.5e5031fe@linux-k6os.site...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 20:52:32 +1000, somebody claiming to be B.H. 
>>>>>>>> Cramer
>>>>>>>> (benjisere@yourservice.com) sprouted forth in
>>>>>>>> xc-dnThX-MrnAXXVnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@giganews.com:-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nothing amazes me about the perfidy of the yids.
>>>>>>>> ... or the stupidity of BH Cramer.
>>>>>>> Oh dear. Who are you today?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>> Who do you hope rots?
>>>>>> [unquote]
>>>>> http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973
>>>>> HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET
>>>> Try and intimidate them into silence, as David Irving tried to do with 
>>>> Dr.
>>>> Lipstadt?
>>>>
>>>> In the recently concluded libel trial wherein British faux historian
>>>> David Irving attempted to censor an American historian, Judge Gray said 
>>>> (Excerpts - see URL for complete document):
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-13-01.html
>>>>
>>>> "I am satisfied that in most of the instances cited by the Defendants 
>>>> Irving has significantly misrepresented what the evidence, objectively 
>>>> examined, reveals."
>>>>
>>>> "I have concluded that Irving has misrepresented the evidence."
>>> Surely there is a point where bending over backwards to listen to these 
>>> morons is pointless. I sense the kernel here of a case for censorship (or 
>>> a gag order) but I am not going to be the one to make it.
>> 
>> There most certainly is a need for a gag order. And it's the professional 
>> liars such as McVay who should be gagged.
>> 
>
>Pathological liars are people who don't know that they are lying. It 
>follows that they will then accuse the other person of being the liar.
>
>Look in the mirror, moron. Do you like what you see?

You should take your own advice, BlowJob.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1946822 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DIESELS are the heart of the Holocaust Hoax
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:35:08 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:01fdd90d-bd25-4910-a7f9-9eb9f4535358@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 5, 12:17 pm, "hoaxbus...@earthlink.net"
> wrote:
>> The heart of the hoax--DIESELS
>>
>
>
>>No, they are not. The number asphyxiated with Diesel exhaust was tiny.
>
>>You don't need toxic elements in the exhaust to kill people in a
>>confined space, dumdum.
>>All you need do is lower the oxygen content of the air they breathe
>>below the minimum required to support human life.
>
>>The Diesel exhaust, forced into the chamber, will displace the normal
>>air they breathe, and VOILA, they don't get enough Oxygen,and they
>>suffocate.
>
>In that case, b'luto, why did the Nazis bother with the engine at all?  The 
>area these persons were allegedly jammed into held bugger all free air so 
>they would have suffocated anyway.
>
>Your stories are falling apart, b'luto.

So many of the holocaust™ tales are so utterly preposterous that one
needs to take them with the same level of derision exhibited by
BlowJob Foster in his diatribes.
>
>But please continue screeching. It's dreadful to see you descending into the 
>pits of insanity, but compelling just the same.
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:28 EDT 2008
Article: 1946830 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For All You USS LIBERTY Fans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
 wrote:

>On Oct 6, 6:59 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire
>
>I am on the Israeli side on this one.
>They proved that the small nation of Israel can defend itself
>against the Anglo-American Imperialists.

I'm not a big fan of the USA, but Israel is exactly the kind of
pipsqueak country that the USA specializes in attacking. Normally,
Irael would have vanished from the earth's surface, but clearly
somebody in Washington prevented this from happening.

There is no earthly way that Israel could defend itself against the
USA. Israel is a client state of the USA.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:29 EDT 2008
Article: 1946842 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank House 'not worth saving'
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:16:34 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>Will the Dutch Govenment of that time now be on the Simon Wisenthal Centre's 
>list of most wanted?

Simon will need a fresh batch of victims to pursue soon, since the
numbers of originals, unlike holocaust™ "survivors", is gradually
dwindling.

>
>
>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6kupv4F9qm2gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>      The Dutch government in the 1950s had no objections to tearing down 
>> the house where Anne Frank wrote her wartime diary, a newspaper report 
>> said on Sunday.
>>
>>      The place where the young Jewish girl described life hiding from 
>> persecution by the Nazis was not considered worthy of preservation, De 
>> Telegraaf said, quoting from a letter written by Joseph Luns, the foreign 
>> minister at the time.
>>
>>      Luns said the house where Anne and her family hid from 1942 until her 
>> betrayal in 1944 was "not a historical monument of the Netherlands" and 
>> unremarkable from an architectural point of view.
>>
>>      The letter, dated May 3, was sent to the Dutch ambassador to the 
>> United States, informing him of the official position of the Ministry of 
>> Education, Art and Science toward the Anne Frank House.
>>
>>      The newspaper said the letter was discovered recently when the part 
>> of the ministry's archives was being moved to a new home.
>>
>>      According to the Anne Frank Foundation, it was apparently written in 
>> response to questions by Americans as to why the house was not declared a 
>> historic building.
>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:30 EDT 2008
Article: 1946844 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 06 Oct 2008 03:06:41 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"B J Foster"  wrote in message 
>news:48e94b6f$0$31803$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> MikeinCamden@aol.com wrote:
>>> On 5 Oct, 16:03, B J Foster  wrote:
>>>> princeandy wrote:
>>>>> "Krudd the Dudd"  wrote in 
>>>>> message
>>>>> news:20081005215843.5e5031fe@linux-k6os.site...
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Anyone for genocide?
>>>>
>>>> Easy, join the revisionists!
>>>> (and get a lobotomy)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> no gassing at auschwitz
>>>> "Denial
>>>>
>>>> Every genocide is followed by denial. The mass graves are dug up and
>>>> hidden. ?The historical records are burned, or closed to historians.
>>>> Even during the genocide, those committing the crimes dismiss reports as
>>>> propaganda. ?Afterwards such deniers are called 'revisionists'. ?Others
>>>> deny through more subtle means: by characterizing the reports as
>>>> 'unconfirmed' or 'alleged' because they do not come from officially
>>>> approved sources; by minimizing the number killed; by quarreling about
>>>> whether the killing fits the legal definition of genocide
>>>> ('definitionalism'); by claiming that the deaths of the perpetrating
>>>> group exceeded that of the victim group, or that the deaths were the
>>>> result of civil war, not genocide. ?In fact, civil war and genocide are
>>>> not mutually exclusive. ?Most genocides occur during wars".
>>>> The 8 stages of genocide, Stage 
>>>> 8http://www.genocidewatch.org/8stages1996.htm
>>>
>>> Sounds like the way the murder by communists of 100m people has been
>>> played down for the last 50 years.
>>
>> Sure. One wishes that the victims would be more vocal.
>> Whoops, *are* there any survivors?
>
>There are more *survivors* today than there were at the end of the War.
>
>Isn't that amazing?
>
>
That is the only unique thing about the holocaust™. The number of
holocaust™ "victims" swells from year to year rather than declines as
is the natural pattern in real events.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:31 EDT 2008
Article: 1946845 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Toben's case and its amazing collateral effects.
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:23:16 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <4atie4ljgck7fup7bkos6h3imjj9ee623g@4ax.com>: 
>
>>Revision is a NORMAL process in legitimate history. 
>
>... which reinterprets old evidence in light of new evidence.
>
>Which is not what deniers such as yourself do.
>
>>That the
>>holocaust™ needs protection from revision suggests very much that it
>>is not legitimate history.
>
>Of course, this premise is flawed in that no such "protection" is
>needed nor exists.

Are you stupidly saying that article 130 of the German penal code does
not exist? It is easy enough to find.

>
>C'omn -- be the *first* denier to actually *document* that all those
>people "resettled to the East" actually arrived somewhere.
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:31 EDT 2008
Article: 1946846 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DIESELS are the heart of the Holocaust Hoax
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 02:49:26 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:83d93fe1-edc7-45f1-8464-0a6881b9f48a@e17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 6, 8:14 am, "hoaxbus...@earthlink.net"
> wrote:
>> Another major problem for the hoaxers is that the self-described
>> "EYEWITNESSES" said the corpses appeared "blue" or "bluish" which
>> would not have been the case if death would have been from gasoline
>> engine exhaust with its very high CO content. Deaths from carbon
>> monoxide result in RED CORPSES.
>
>>Says who?
>
>Says every medical manual ever printed, fuckwit.
>
>Try Merck.
>
>
>>Red or pink tissue comes with Cyanide poisoning and it's
>>only the lungs that get red.
>
>Who said anything about cyanide, fuckstain?
>
>>Bodies deficient in oxygen often turn blue. Heart attack victims often
>>turn blue.
>
>People killed by CO are pink to red, fuckstain.
>
>Cease with the bluster, lies and b'ullshit.
>
>
B'luto clearly knows very little about chemistry. It is mindless
babblers like B'luto that first made me have serious doubts about the
holocaust™. Many of the stories are just totally absurd.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1946847 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 23:40:21 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:d9ba2c98-5499-4aad-8d7d-f537affe7c83@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 6, 6:31 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>> On Oct 6, 6:28 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>
>> > If the SS commited no war crimes and killed nobody, why did so many of
>> > them flee Germany and hide under false names in South America?
>>
>> > The German soldiers and sailors and pilots didn't run away and hide.
>>
>> > Eichmann and Mengele were the two most notorious of the SS who ran
>> > away, but there were many others.
>>
>> > Here is Doctor Mengele in all his glory:
>>
>> >http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/history/mengele/epi...
>>
>> > There was a secret organization called ODESSA that helped former SS
>> > men escape.
>> > I'll cover that in a succeeding post..
>>
>> Here is Eichmann:
>>
>> http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/gangsters_outlaws/cops_others/eich...
>
>
>>Here is the ODESSA
>
>>http://greyfalcon.us/The%20Real%20Odessa.htm
>
>And here is Joe Bruno - Faggot

His IQ is far too low for that.

>
>http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/BenCramer1/JoeBruno.jpg
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1946848 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: visit Auschwitz and vo9te for Haider/Strache
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 6 Oct 2008 14:01:44 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>An activist in an Austrian organization commemorating the Holocaust, who 
>traveled last month with a group of 16-year-olds from his country to visit 
>the Auschwitz Nazi death camp in Poland, found to his horror that the 
>youngsters were planning to vote for the extreme right wing political 
>parties in the Austrian elections.
>
>The activist, in his twenties, said that despite their far-right leaning, 
>the teens expressed a genuine interest in learning about the Holocaust, and 
>approached the tour with the appropriate seriousness.
>
>The election, in which far-right parties doubled their representation at the 
>end of last month, was the first election in which the young students were 
>eligible to vote. The activist said he overheard the students saying they 
>were planning to vote for Heinz-Christian Strache's Freedom Party or Joerg 
>Haider's Alliance for the Future of Austria - "because of the foreigners."
>
>It was in fact those who were most interested in learning about the 
>Holocaust were the ones who led this trend, said the activist. In response, 
>the group's counselors tried to stress in their discussions the relationship 
>between the lessons of the past and judgments on the present - but were 
>unsuccessful. "The youngsters were unable to make the connection," the 
>activist reported with regret. 

The propaganda making the holocaust™ "unique" is at fault. Unique
means that it was a one-time phenomenon of that time and place and
hence has no bearing on modern Austrians or anybody else. Indeed, a
unique holocaust™ is irrelevant in the modern world except as an
extortion tool to be used against the children and grand-children of
the alleged perpetrators.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1946849 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <5b5oe4h3sprrge588ildlaqfuklgv7hv6r@4ax.com>
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:24:18 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Karl"  wrote in message 
>news:73fdb2ea-eaa2-4137-9ef3-7e6e2e95caf3@h60g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On 6 Okt., 09:33, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:b785e77a-8933-4c5d-9552-cbdca1ad1424@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > If the SS commited no war crimes and killed nobody, why did so many of
>>> > them flee Germany and hide under false names in South America?
>>>
>>> Probably for much the same reason many yid crooks flee from the Jewnited
>>> States to Ersatz israel.
>>
>> I'm sure they killed quite a few people.  The Waffen SS (peace be upon
>> those brave fellows) kicked ass big time.  That in itself is not a war
>> crime.  I'm sure some of them committed atrocities like every other
>> unit in the armed forces.  Look at Eisenhower's death camps for
>> starters.  Need I mention the A bombing of Japan, not to mention the
>> firebombing of Tokyo.  But then the Japs weren't exactly lambs were
>> they?  But then neither was anyone else.
>
>It's only the defeated who commit war crimes, because only the victors write 
>the history.

Victors only write history for a short time. Eventually revisionists
will peel away the layers of self-serving lies to expose the truth
underneath. That is the function of revisionism on any historical
topic. 

>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Oct  7 22:35:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1946850 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <0f5oe4prfac3ifgkmgi88dv93ce8gci1aq@4ax.com>
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On Tue, 7 Oct 2008 17:51:15 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Karl"  wrote in message 
>news:73fdb2ea-eaa2-4137-9ef3-7e6e2e95caf3@h60g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On 6 Okt., 09:33, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:b785e77a-8933-4c5d-9552-cbdca1ad1424@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > If the SS commited no war crimes and killed nobody, why did so many of
>>> > them flee Germany and hide under false names in South America?
>>>
>>> Probably for much the same reason many yid crooks flee from the Jewnited
>>> States to Ersatz israel.
>>
>> I'm sure they killed quite a few people.  The Waffen SS (peace be upon
>> those brave fellows) kicked ass big time.  That in itself is not a war
>> crime.  I'm sure some of them committed atrocities like every other
>> unit in the armed forces.  Look at Eisenhower's death camps for
>> starters.  Need I mention the A bombing of Japan, not to mention the
>> firebombing of Tokyo.  But then the Japs weren't exactly lambs were
>> they?  But then neither was anyone else.
>
>The Einsatzgruppen were engaged in knocking off partisans and common 
>criminals. The yids would have us believe they were engaged in nothing else 
>but hunting down jews to murder.

Jews were simply not worth that much effort. Partisans, by contrast,
were an immediate and dangerous problem.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1949018 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DIESELS are the heart of the Holocaust Hoax
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 12:13:05 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> So many of the holocaust™ tales are so utterly preposterous 
>
>You keep saying that,  but you provide no evidence to support
>your assertions.

The Diesel nonsense speaks for itself. No additional evidence is
needed. The story is simply ridiculous.

>
>You want utterly preposterous stories?  Look at the stories
>about the alleged "terrible bombings" of German cities:
>
>Source: http://zgrams.zundelsite.org/pipermail/zgrams/2004-February/000754.html
>"As Hamburg burned the winds feeding the three-mile high flames
>reached twice hurricane speed to exceed 150 miles per hour."

I don't know about the three-mile-high flames, but the winds were
strong enough to toss around streetcars having a mass of more than
8,000 kg.

>
>Source:  http://www.rense.com/general19/flame.htm
>"MELTING HUMAN FLESH
>Others hiding below ground died. But they died painlessly--they
>simply glowed bright orange and blue in the darkness. As the heat
>intensified, they either disintegrated into cinders or melted into a
>thick liquid--often three or four feet deep in spots."
>
>Want more?  I got more.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1949019 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For All You USS LIBERTY Fans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 19:14:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:gn4oe4ploack6uvvc51t57kbtsogb9tbh3@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>On Oct 6, 6:59 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire
>>>
>>>I am on the Israeli side on this one.
>>>They proved that the small nation of Israel can defend itself
>>>against the Anglo-American Imperialists.
>>
>> I'm not a big fan of the USA, but Israel is exactly the kind of
>> pipsqueak country that the USA specializes in attacking. Normally,
>> Irael would have vanished from the earth's surface, but clearly
>> somebody in Washington prevented this from happening.
>>
>> There is no earthly way that Israel could defend itself against the
>> USA. Israel is a client state of the USA.
>
>Arse about face, Johannes.
>
>It is the USA which is the client state of Ersatz israel.
>
>The tail wags the dog.

In many ways that is true, but not from a physical, military
perspective.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1949020 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:23:07 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message <0f5oe4prfac3ifgkmgi88dv93ce8gci1aq@4ax.com>: 
>
>>>The Einsatzgruppen were engaged in knocking off partisans and common 
>>>criminals. The yids would have us believe they were engaged in nothing else 
>>>but hunting down jews to murder.
>
>>Jews were simply not worth that much effort. 
>
>Why, then, do their reports specifically single out Jews as a group,
>distinct from partisans?
>
>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>understanding of English?

Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
he was forced to sign them. Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.

It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
foreign language. 

>
>
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1949044 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:10:50 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Höss'[Hoess']  "confessions" were written for him in English 
>
>His autobiography is in German.

I would have expected his autobiography to be in German. Having it
appear in English, Zulu, or Hottentot would have been odd, which is
why I find confessions written in foreign languages rather peculiar.

>  Can you stop lying for one day,
>please?

I'm not lying about anything, which is a lot more than what I can say
about you. You are either incredibly stupid or you are cynically
trying to float various rather obvious fabrications.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1949430 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 09:16:07 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 13, 10:48 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>> > On Oct 13, 8:54 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>
>
>
>>
>> Thanks: Now please, give us the situation of anti-Semitism in the following countries
>>
>> A
>>
>>      *  Abkhazia – Republic of Abkhazia[5]
>>      *  Afghanistan – Islamic Republic of Afghanistan... ad infinitum<
>
>I can't do that, but I can give you just the tip of the iceberg with a
>few highlights:
>
>http://christianactionforisrael.org/antiholo/summanti.html
>
>This historical background of centuries of anti-Semitism eventually
>exploded in the 20th century "Holocaust". The hostility and hatred
>manifested in the holocaust was therefore not new. As we have stated
>ancient writings contain much anti-Semitism. In pre-Roman times most
>people did not read or write. At times, Rome tried to eradicate
>Judaism and "Jewishness". Followers were assumed to be treasonous and
>subversive. This in turn led to major revolts on the part of the
>Jewish community.
>
>The following is a brief summary of Incidents involving Jews in
>History... 135 B.C
>Antiochus Epiphanes desecrates Second Jewish Temple; leading to
>Hasmonean Revolt against Rome.
>
>70 A.D.
>Titus took Jerusalem - second revolt. Over one million Jews killed.

That is likely more Jews than existed in the world in 70 AD.

>
>136 A.D.
>580,000 men destroyed, 985 towns destroyed - third revolt.
>
>300 A.D.
>Purim festival celebrating God's deliverance to Mordecai and the Jews
>through Esther and the fasting. Lies spread that Jews kill Christians
>for sacrifice. Emperor Severus also said the Jews purchased 90,000
>Christians to kill them.
>
>306 A.D.
>Council in Spain banned Christians & Jews meeting or marrying.
>
>325 A.D.
>Constantine changed the celebration of Easter on the calendar so that
>it did not coincide with the Jewish Passover.
>
>379 A.D.
>Vicious writing by St. John Chrysostom and St. Ambrose in Milan who
>said: "The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous,
>greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They
>worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the
>odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation
>possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease
>vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always
>hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them." He was
>called the Bishop with the Golden Tongue. St. Ambrose, Bishop of the
>Church offered to burn the synagogue himself.
>
>395 A.D.
>St. Gregory of Nyssa in sermons and writings characterized Jews as
>assassins of the Prophets, companions of the Devil, a race of vipers,
>a Sanhedrin of Demons, enemies of all that is beautiful, hogs and
>goats in their lewd grossness.
>
>415 A.D.
>Bishop Severus BURNED THE SYNAGOGUE IN THE VILLAGE OF MAGONA. BISHOP
>OF
>ALEXANDRIA, ST. CYRIL EXPELLED JEWS FROM ALEXANDRIA AND GAVE THE MOB
>JEWISH PROPERTY.
>ACCUSATION of Ritual murder by the Jews during Purim. Christians
>confiscated synagogues in ANTIOCH.
>These were not hooligans but Church Fathers!
>AUGUSTINE, JEROME, AMBROSE AND LESSER SAINTS AS ST. CHRYSOSTROM AND
>CYRIL, added to untruths the new ones that Jews were dishonest and
>prone to sexual perversions.
>
>717 A.D.
>Jews had to wear special yellow garb. Originated in Islam.
>
>1012 A.D.
>Emperor Henry II of Germany expels Jews from Mainz, the beginning of
>persecutions against Jews in Germany.
>
>1096 A.D.
>First Crusade. Crusaders massacre the Jews of the Rhineland.
>
>1144 A.D.
>First recorded blood libel. In Norwich it was alleged that the Jews
>had "bought a Christian child before Easter, tortured him with all the
>tortures wherewith our Lord was tortured and on Friday hanged him on a
>rood in hatred of our Lord." (England)
>This notorious allegation that Jews murder non-Jews, especially
>Christians, in order to obtain blood for the Passover or other rituals
>is a complex of deliberate lies, trumped up accusations, and popular
>beliefs about the murder-lust of the Jews and their blood-thirstiness,
>based on the conception that Jews hate Christianity and mankind in
>general. It is combined with the delusion that Jews are in some way
>not human and must have recourse to special remedies and subterfuges
>in order to appear at least outwardly, like other men. The blood libel
>led to trials and massacres of Jews. Its origin is rooted in ancient
>almost primordial, concepts concerning the potency and energies of
>blood. It is one of the most terrible expressions of human cruelty and
>credulity. These blood rituals are expressly forbidden in Judaism.
>(See Leviticus 17;11 etc.)
>
>1190 A.D.
>Massacre of Jews in England.
>
>1215 A.D.
>The Jewish badge introduced.
>
>1240 A.D.
>Talmud burned in France.
>
>1290 A.D.
>Jews expelled from England.
>
>1298 A.D.
>Massacre of thousands in Germany, in 146 localities.
>
>1306 A.D.
>Expulsion from France.
>
>1348 A.D.
>JEWS blamed for the BLACK DEATH. Charge laid to the Jews that they
>POISONED the wells to kill CHRISTIANS.
>
>1389 A.D.
>MASSACRES in Bohemia, Spain.
>
>1421 A.D.
>270 JEWS BURNED AT THE STAKE. In the 14th and 15th centuries the
>Inquisition was more intense because the Church and State joined
>forces. Just being Jewish guaranteed persecution
>
>1480 A.D.
>Inquisition in Spain - Jews and Christians burned at the stake.
>
>1483 A.D.
>EXPULSIONS from Warsaw, Sicily, Lithuania, Portugal.
>
>1492 A.D.
>ALL JEWS EXPELLED FROM SPAIN.
>
>1506 A.D.
>Murders in Lisbon - 4000, "conversos", men, women, and children thrown
>from windows to street mobs below, due to preaching by Dominicans
>against the Jews.
>
>1510 A.D.
>EXPELLED from Brandenburg, Germany.
>
>1516 A.D.
>Venice initiates the ghetto, the first in Christian Europe.
>
>1544 A.D.
>The Reformation. At the end of Martin Luther's life the German
>reformer vilified the Jews in violent pamphlets which could not fail
>to exert their influence. But because Calvinists were steeped in Old
>Testament theology, the Dutch people respected the Jews as "the
>Chosen" people; and were not anti-Semitic in their faith. The
>reformation was a time of turmoil as the Roman Church and feudalism
>lost their supremacy. There was a rising up of Nationhood and Luther
>was a German nationalist. The Talmud was seized and burned everywhere
>by Papal authority. Jews in Catholic countries and Polish Jews
>suffered greatly. Luther's anti-Semitic writings were later used in
>anti-Semitic literature.
>
>1553 A.D.
>Rome seized and burned the Talmud by order of the POPE.
>
>1559 A.D.
>12,000 copies of Talmud burned in Milan.
>
>1569 A.D.
>POPE PIUS V ordered all Jews out of the Papal states.
>
>1593 A.D.
>EXPULSIONS from Italy and Bavaria.
>
>1598 A.D.
>Ritual murder charge that sent three Jews to their deaths. Execution
>of the supposed guilty was done by QUARTERING. (In his book the "Birth
>of the Prison" Michel Foucault describes at length the quartering of a
>condemned man in 1757. It was done eventually by six horses instead of
>the four original ones and other means had to come in to play due to
>the failure even of six horses as the prisoners limbs were tied to
>ropes harnessed to the horses. Each horse pulled in a different
>direction. One horse fell to the ground unsuccessfully. Knives had to
>be used for severing...)
>
>1614 A.D.
>JEWS attacked and driven out of Frankfurt, Germany.
>
>1624 A.D.
>GHETTO established in Ferrara, Italy.
>
>1648 A.D.
>Leader of the Cossacks, in the Ukraine massacres 100,000 Jews and
>destroyed 300 communities.
>
>1655 A.D.
>Massacres of Jews in war against Sweden & Russia by Poland.
>
>1715 A.D.
>POPE PIUS VI issues edict against Jews.
>
>1768 A.D.
>20,000 Jews in Poland killed.
>
>1805 A.D.
>MASSACRE of Jews in Algeria.
>
>1840 A.D.
>BLOOD LIBEL in DAMASCUS.
>
>1853 A.D.
>BLOOD LIBEL in RUSSIA.
>
>1858 A.D.
>THE MORTARA CASE: Catholics abduct a 7 yr. old Jewish child. A
>Catholic servant baptized a Jewish child when the child was seriously
>ill and the church of Rome seized the child. Outcry had no effect on
>the POPE.
>
>1879 A.D.
>Word anti-Semitism comes into existence.
>
>1881 A.D.
>POGROMS BEGAN. The word is of Russian origin. It designates attack,
>accompanied by destruction, looting of property, murder, rape. There
>were three major outbreaks in Russia. The word designates more
>particularly the attacks carried out by the Christian population. Each
>pogrom surpassed the other in savagery.
>KIEV, ODESSA; Here murder of whole families was a common occurrence.
>Partial data are available for 530 communities in which 887 major
>pogroms and 349 minor pogroms occurred. There were 60,000 dead and
>several times that many were wounded.
>
>1882 A.D.
>FIRST ANTI-JEWISH CONGRESS HELD. In Dresden, Germany.
>
>1894 A.D.
>ALFRED DREYFUS TRIAL in France. Details follow further on in this
>summary.
>
>1903 A.D.
>APPEARANCE of a new issue of the PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION. In
>Russia.
>This spectre of a worldwide Jewish conspiracy aiming at reducing the
>Gentiles to slavery or extermination loomed up in the medieval
>Christian imagination and grew out of legends about well poisonings
>and plague spreading. It was concocted in Paris by an unknown author
>working for the Russian secret police. It was an alleged conference of
>the leaders of World Jewry. It was translated into all the world
>languages. In 1963 a Spanish edition was published. During World War
>II, the Protocols of the elders of Zion became an implicit
>justification for the GENOCIDE of the Jews and Nazi propaganda relied
>on them until the last days of the Third Reich. Smaller pamphlets of
>it have been distributed in B.C. 1983 published in California...
>Required reading in most Arab countries, in schools, to this day.
>
>1905 A.D.
>Russian pogroms continue. Also in Morocco, Ukraine, 300 dead.
>
>1919 A.D.
>3000 Jews killed in Hungarian pogroms.
>
>1920 A.D.
>Appearance of ADOLPH HITLER. Also Henry Ford the 1st believes the
>Protocols; and publishes anti-Jewish articles in his newspaper, the
>Dearborn Independent.
>
>1925 A.D.
>MEIN KAMPH appears. Hitler's Plan published in Germany.
>
>1935 A.D.
>Hitler writes his Nuremberg Laws which lead to his Final Solution.
>
>1938 A.D.
>Burning in AUSTRIA & GERMANY of Synagogues. Jews sent to concentration
>camps. Beginnings of the Holocaust.
>
>1939 A.D.
>Germany overruns Poland.
>
>1940 A.D.
>Gassing, shootings in Polish Ghettos (Jewish).
>
>1941 A.D.
>EXPULSION of Jews from the German Reich to Poland. Riots against Jews
>in Iraq.
>
>1942 A.D.
>Mass transports of Jews from Belgium & Holland.
>
>1944 A.D.
>EXTERMINATION OF HUNGARIAN JEWS.
>
>1945 A.D.
>HOLOCAUST Final Count: 6,000,000 Jews slaughtered.
>
>1946 A.D.
>Pogroms in Poland - 42 Jews murdered.
>
>1948 A.D.
>BIRTH OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL. Also Jewish intellectuals shot in
>Russia.
>
>1952 A.D.
>Jews murdered by Communists, and others disappear. Prague trials.
>Murder of Yiddish intellectuals in Russia and many sent to work
>camps..
>
>1956 A.D.
>Jews expelled out of EGYPT.
>
>1967 A.D.
>SIX DAY WAR. Also new publication of Elders of Zion in Arabic.
>
>1968 A.D.
>Emigration of last remaining Jews in Poland.
>
>1969 A.D.
>JEWS EXECUTED IN IRAQ.
>
>1970 A.D.
>Beginning of imprisonment in Russia of PRISONERS OF CONSCIENCE.
>("Refuseniks")
>
>1980 A.D.
>Russian imprisonments carry on throughout the 70's to the 80's.
>
>1982 A.D.
>War in Lebanon begins after many years of terrorist attacks against
>the Jews in the Upper Galilee area from the vantage point of Beaufort
>Castle. Many Lebanese killed over long period of time, but was ignored
>by the News Media. War in Lebanon gets slanted coverage.
>
>etc..


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1949439 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:44:22 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 12, 10:16 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>> > On Oct 10, 7:36 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>...
>>
>> > Sez you, but you have absolutely no proof of that assertion. Not a
>> > shred.  You have no proof of any "Palestinian" nation.
>>
>> What fucking difference does it make? Palestinians are living there since centuries ago, that is enough to have their rights on
>> that territory...>
>
>What kind of rights? Private property rights? No argument. The League
>of Nations did not say that Jews resettling the land could arbitrary
>take away private property, as registered in the old Turkish land
>registry (the Tabu).  The question was SOVEREIGNTY.

Sovereignty is a monopoly on the use of force. Why should Jews be able
to move somewhere, and then set up a monopoly of force to oppress or
displace the local people? There is nothing special about Jews.



> The League of
>Nations made it clear that the Jewish NATIONAL HOME (homeland) is
>rightfully in Palestine.

The land didn't belong to the League of Nations to give away.

>The UN later authorized  a Jewish national state. They also gave the
>Arabs f Palestine the right to a state of their own alongside the
>Jewish state, but that was rejected and war ensued.
>
>> There was never such thing like "Algerian nation" before the French colonization of that
>> territory.<
>
>The Berbers were  a nation. It may not have been called "Algeria" but
>that is not the issue.  It was a colonized country ruled from Paris..
>
>> On that part of Africa, they were only some Arab tribes and some Turks fighting each others.<
>
>The point is, that the UN recognized an Algerian nation. Every nation
>recognized by, and given membership, is a legally authorized nation.
>
>> Now there is a country named "Algeria" very happy because into the frontiers of that
>> "country", traced arbitrarily by France, they have a part of Sahara desert with a lot of
>> oil and gas.<
>
>I don't know enough about the history of the north African states,
>other than they did have some kind of national existence before
>Napoleon came in 1799.
>
>> However, there are some inhabitants on that part of desert, there are Tuaregs who claim
>> for their own country there....<
>
>If the UN recognizes the Tauregs as a nation, or the Kurds, or the
>Baluchis, or the Basques, or the Corsicans, or any of the hundreds of
>groups, including the Lakota of north America as independent nations.
>then they will acquire that legal status under international law. The
>League of Nations in the 1920s and '30s, and later the United Nations
>determined the legal status of groups applying for independent
>nationhood. The Palestinians could have had independent nationhood
>back in 1947, but chose to violently resist Jewish nationhood rather
>than compromise. They still have a chance, provided that they can
>negotiate independence from Israel on terms that Israel can live with.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:35 EDT 2008
Article: 1949440 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 22:24:31 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:10:50 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> His autobiography is in German.
>
>> I would have expected his autobiography to be in German.
>
>Since your thought(?) process is so horribly impaired,  it's
>hard to know just what you expect.  When conversing with the
>likes of you,  one needs to point out the obvious.

LOL

Babble on.

>
>Now,  his autobiography includes a great deal of information
>about what happened in Auschwitz,  therefore your silly harping
>about his confession is,  well,  silly.

His autobiography is just bits of dye applied to paper. His claims
would warrant physical investigation, but the words on paper do not
constitute proof of anything, except in holocaust™ lore. In the
absence of physical evidence, the paper means nothing.

That is the whole problem with the holocaust™ story: It is 99.9% paper
and very little hard physical evidence. In the absence of supporting
hard evidence, the paper is pretty much worthless.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:35 EDT 2008
Article: 1949441 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 06:56:27 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 13, 2:22 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:88639f61-888f-42ff-ac78-01e2ada9c9bc@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 12, 10:16 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>> >> jgarbuzwrote:
>> >> > On Oct 10, 7:36 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>> > ...
>>
>> >> > Sez you, but you have absolutely no proof of that assertion. Not a
>> >> > shred.  You have no proof of any "Palestinian" nation.
>>
>> >> What fucking difference does it make? Palestinians are living there since
>> >> centuries ago, that is enough to have their rights on
>> >> that territory...>
>>
>> > What kind of rights? Private property rights? No argument. The League
>> > of Nations did not say that Jews resettling the land could arbitrary
>> > take away private property
>>
>> Yet they did.<
>
>No they didn't, you lying Nazi pig.

Ben is perfectly correct, and you are wrong. Confiscations, fraud, and
theft have been the order of the day since 1948. As an Englishman
would say, "The locals were jewed out of their possessions".

>
>> >, as registered in the old Turkish land
>> > registry (the Tabu).
>>
>> Yet they did.<
>
>You don't even know what the Tabu is, you lying Nazi pig.
>
>> >The question was SOVEREIGNTY. The League of
>> > Nations made it clear that the Jewish NATIONAL HOME (homeland) is
>> > rightfully in Palestine.
>>
>> The League of Nations had no legal power to give Palestine to the yids.
>> NONE.<
>
>It's either the League, or God. Take  your pick, pig. One thing for
>sure, you Nazi pigs don't define us. You may burn us, but not define
>us.
>
>> > The UN later authorized  a Jewish national state.
>
>> Nope. UNGAR181 is UNBINDING, garbageguz.<
>
>The Security Council did not veto the JEwish state, and so it's legal
>nonetheless. The UN accepted the State of Israel as a legal member.
>You lying Nazi pig.
>
>> >They also gave the
>> > Arabs f Palestine the right to a state of their own alongside the
>> > Jewish state, but that was rejected and war ensued.
>
>> Why wouldn't they have refused to allow their country to have been swiped
>> from them.<
>
>There was never a Palestinian state to swipe from. Those Arabs with
>private property in what was alloted to the Jews COULD have stayed,
>and over 100,000 did. But those who chose to leave, that made them an
>enemy fifth column.
>
>> The war was started by the hebes, you lying turd.<
>
>No, it was started by you Nazis and your Islamofascists back in 1936
>when Hitler supported the Mufti finanacially.
>>
>> TIME LINE OF THE ISRAELI AGGRESSION AGAINST THE
>> PALESTINIANS IN THE 1948 WAR.<
>
>The following were battles that occurred AFTER the Arabs rejected the
>UN Partition Plan (UNGAR 181) of November, 1947. Note the first battle
>is in December. The Arabs started it by starting terror as soon as the
>UN vote came out in favor of Partition...
>
>
>> December, 1947 : The Jewish conquest of Palestine gets underway.
>> December 25th, 1947 : Invasion of al Mas'udiyya
>> Israeli military operation : Haganah or IZL
>>
>> Early February, 1948 : Invasion of Lifta
>>
>> 15th of February 1948. : Invasion of al Burj, Khirbat
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown terror unit from the Haganah.
>> Israeli military operation : Terror campaign.
>>
>> Mid February 1948 : Invasion of Qisarya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Palmach troops, headed by Yitzhak Rabin, occupied
>> and destroyed the village.
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> Early 1948. Barrat Qisarya was probably ethnically cleansed at the same time
>> as the nearby village of Qisarya.
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown forces from the Haganah
>>
>> February 17th, 1948 : Invasion of Fajja
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Haganah and lrgun
>> Israeli military operation : Terror campaign.
>>
>> Mid February 1948 : Invasion of Daliyat al Rawha'
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown troops from the Haganah.
>> Israeli military operation : Mishmar Ha'emek Battle
>>
>> March 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of al 'Ubaydiyya
>>
>> March 5th, 1948 : Invasion of al Manshiyya (Tiberias)
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown troops from the Haganah
>>
>> Early March, 1948 : Invasion of al Manara
>>
>> 15th of March. al Ghubayya al Tahta was ethnically cleansed on 15th of March
>> and occupied on the 8th of April 1948.
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Units drawn from the Palmach, as well as the
>> Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades
>> Israeli military operation : Battle for Mishmar Ha'emek
>>
>> March 15th, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi al Hawarith
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> March 26th, 1948 : Invasion of Qumya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Gideon
>>
>> March 26th, 1948 : Invasion of al Tira (Baysan)
>>
>> Late March 1948 : Invasion of Qira
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Terror campaign by a Haganah intelligence unit.
>>
>> Late March or early April, 1948 : Invasion of Umm Khalid
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> Late March or early April, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi Qabbani
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> Late March, 1948 : Invasion of al Muwaylih
>>
>> April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Ijlil al Qibliyya
>>
>> April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Ijlil al Shamaliyya
>>
>> April 3rd, 1948 : Invasion of Tabsur
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 5th, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Lid, Khirbat
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Alexandroni Brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 5th, 1948 : Invasion of Bayt Far, Khirbat
>> Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Nachshon or Yoram
>>
>> April 6th, 1948 : Invasion of Khulda
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon
>>
>> April 6th, 1948 : Invasion of Saydun
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon
>>
>> 8th-9th of April 1948. : Invasion of al Ghubayya al Fawqa (al Ghubayya al
>> Fawqa changed hands several time with Fawzi al-Qawuqji).
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some units drawn from the Palmach (strike force),
>> and from the Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades.
>> Israeli military operation : Mishmar ha-'Emeq Battle
>>
>> April 8th-9th, 1948 : Invasion of al Qastal (on the 8th it was recaptured by
>> Palestinian guerrillas, and during that battle 'Abd al-Qadir al-Husseini was
>> killed).
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's Fourth Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon
>>
>> April 9th, 1948 : Invasion of Dayr Yasin. On this day the terror gang (IZL
>> or ETZEL) lead by the former Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin committed
>> the infamous Dayr Yasin massacre, which resulted in the murder of 245
>> people, including more than 70 women and children. It is worth noting that
>> 25 of the survivors were paraded around West Jerusalem as trophies, and were
>> later brought back to Dayr Yassin where they were executed.
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The terror gangs of Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL or
>> ETZEL) and Stern Gang (LEHI) headed by the former Israeli Prime Minister
>> Menachem Begin.
>>
>> 10th of April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Fuqara'
>> Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Coastal Clearing
>>
>> 10th of April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Nufay'at
>> Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 11th, 1948 : Invasion of Qalunya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly by IZL (Irgun Zvai Leumi or ITZEL)
>> terror gangs and some Haganah troops.
>> Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Nahchon
>>
>> April 11th-12th, 1948 : Invasion of Nasir al Din
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Golani Brigade
>>
>> 12th April 1948 : Invasion of Abu Shusha (Haifa)
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Combination of First Battalion of the Palmach,
>> Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades.
>> Israeli military operation : The Battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq.
>>
>> 12th of April 1948 (village destroyed on 15th of April) : Invasion of Abu
>> Zurayq
>> Invading Israeli brigade : A combination from the Palmach 1st Battalion,
>> Carmeli and Alexandroni Brigades
>> Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq
>>
>> 12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Kafrayn
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Possibly Carmeli brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq
>>
>> 12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Mansi
>> Israeli military operation : The Battle for Mishmar Ha'emek
>>
>> 12th-13th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Naghnaghiyya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown Haganah troops
>> Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar ha-'Emeq
>>
>> April 12th, 1948 : Invasion of Biyar 'Adas
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Stern terror gangs
>>
>> April 12th-13th, 1948 : Invasion of Ayn al Mansi
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Unknown Palmach units
>> Israeli military operation : The battle for Mishmar Ha'emek
>>
>> 15th of April 1948 : Invasion of al Sarkas, Khirbat
>> Israeli military operation : Most likely Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 15th, 1948 : Invasion of Zalafa, Khirbat
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 15th, 1948 : Invasion of al Manshiyya (Tulkarm)
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> April 16th, 1948 : Invasion of Saris. Possibly exchanged hands until May
>> 9th, 1948.
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Some unknown brigade from the Haganah
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Nachshon
>>
>> April 17th, 1948 : Invasion of Wadi Hunayn
>>
>> April 18th, 1948 : Invasion of Samakh. Exchanged hands several times with
>> the Syrians until May 21st, 1948.
>> Israeli military operation : Golani Brigade
>> April 19, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Tiberias falls to the invading
>> Jews.
>> 20th April 1948 : Invasion of Arab al Zubayd
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic
>> cleansing champion Yigal Allon)
>>
>> 20th of April 1948 : Invasion of al 'Ulmaniyya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic
>> cleansing champion Yigal Allon)
>>
>> April 20th, 1948 : Invasion of al Mansura (al Ramla)
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Either Giv'ati Brigade or Har' el Brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Barak (lightening)
>>
>> April 20th, 1948 : Invasion of al Mukhayzin
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Giva'ti brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Har'el
>>
>> April 20th-21st, 1948 : Invasion of Miska
>> Israeli military operation : Coastal Clearing
>>
>> May 20th, 1948, or possibly mid April : Invasion of al Safiriyya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Either Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) or Alexandroni
>> Brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Possibly Operation Chametz
>>
>> 21st of April 1948 : Invasion of al Husayniyya
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic
>> cleansing champion Yigal Allon)
>> April 22, 1948 : The Palestinian city of Haifa falls to the invading Jews.
>> 22nd of April 1948 (fell in the Demilitarized Zone) : Invasion of Kirad al
>> Baqqara
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic
>> cleansing champion Yigal Allon)
>>
>> 22nd of April 1948 (fell in the Demilitarized Zone) : Invasion of Kirad al
>> Ghannama
>> Invading Israeli brigade : The Palmach's First Battalion
>> Israeli military operation : Operation Yiftach (commanded by the ethnic
>> cleansing champion Yigal Allon)
>>
>> 22nd of April 1948 : Invasion of Balad al Shaykh
>> Invading Israeli brigade : Carmeli Brigade
>> Israeli military operation : Either Bi'ur Chametz or Operation Bi'ur Chametz
>>
>> April 22nd, 1948 : Invasion of Kafr Sabt
>>
>> April 22nd, 1948 : Invasion of ...
>>
>> read more »


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:36 EDT 2008
Article: 1949442 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:10:55 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>news:catamont-6950BC.16300612102008@news-40.giganews.com...
>> In article ,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:23:07 -0500, Roger  wrote:
>>>
>>> >In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>> >   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>> >      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>> >         in message <0f5oe4prfac3ifgkmgi88dv93ce8gci1aq@4ax.com>:
>>> >
>>> >>>The Einsatzgruppen were engaged in knocking off partisans and common
>>> >>>criminals. The yids would have us believe they were engaged in nothing
>>> >>>else
>>> >>>but hunting down jews to murder.
>>> >
>>> >>Jews were simply not worth that much effort.
>>> >
>>> >Why, then, do their reports specifically single out Jews as a group,
>>> >distinct from partisans?
>>> >
>>> >And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>> >understanding of English?
>>>
>>> Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>> he was forced to sign them. Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>> It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>>>
>>> It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>> improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>> foreign language.
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>>
>> This again? After all the proof posted here -- in Hoess' own words -- 
>
>What proof, salzman? Because you and gourd "say so?"
>
>Fuck orf.
>
Gord is generally out of his gourd.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:36 EDT 2008
Article: 1949443 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:44:08 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Tilly"  wrote in message 
>news:gcu869$4em$1@aioe.org...
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>> news:6lebh4Fbrvf8U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "a-little-sanity"; "please"  schreef in bericht 
>>> news:gcssuv$3oj$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>>> In article <6leb37Fbr799U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i9nh austria car5s donot drive in miles but in kilometers so
>>>>> your reference to 88 is childish
>>>>
>>>> Can you read,  for Christ's sake?
>>>>
>>>> "Police reconstructing the accident in southern Austria say the
>>>> speedometer in the wreckage of Haider's Volkswagen sedan was stuck
>>>> at 142 kilometers per hour (88 miles per hour)."
>>>>
>>>> (sigh)
>>
>> Heinrich needs to learn how to convert kph into mph.  lol
>
>Learn to read, you whining cunt.
>
The whining cunt appears not to realize that kph is not a proper unit.
The proper SI unit is km/h.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1949444 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For All You USS LIBERTY Fans
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:14:35 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:sam4f45kb643aigts5ofa6gep1rttfh5oq@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2008 19:14:04 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message
>>>news:gn4oe4ploack6uvvc51t57kbtsogb9tbh3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2008 22:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Oct 6, 6:59 am, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire
>>>>>
>>>>>I am on the Israeli side on this one.
>>>>>They proved that the small nation of Israel can defend itself
>>>>>against the Anglo-American Imperialists.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a big fan of the USA, but Israel is exactly the kind of
>>>> pipsqueak country that the USA specializes in attacking. Normally,
>>>> Irael would have vanished from the earth's surface, but clearly
>>>> somebody in Washington prevented this from happening.
>>>>
>>>> There is no earthly way that Israel could defend itself against the
>>>> USA. Israel is a client state of the USA.
>>>
>>>Arse about face, Johannes.
>>>
>>>It is the USA which is the client state of Ersatz israel.
>>>
>>>The tail wags the dog.
>>
>> In many ways that is true, but not from a physical, military
>> perspective.
>
>I'm not sure about that. The US has been fighting israel's wars for decades.

That is true, because physically and militarily, the USA is the great
power and Israel is a tool of that great power. Without the USA to
prop it up, Israel would quickly vanish.

>
>
>>
>>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1949445 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:54:45 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6lebh4Fbrvf8U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "a-little-sanity"; "please"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:gcssuv$3oj$1@pcls4.std.com...
>>> In article <6leb37Fbr799U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>>
>>>> i9nh austria car5s donot drive in miles but in kilometers so
>>>> your reference to 88 is childish
>>>
>>> Can you read,  for Christ's sake?
>>>
>>> "Police reconstructing the accident in southern Austria say the
>>> speedometer in the wreckage of Haider's Volkswagen sedan was stuck
>>> at 142 kilometers per hour (88 miles per hour)."
>>>
>>> (sigh)
>>>
>> anoty6her mistake is that the car was not a volkswagen sedan but a 
>> volkswagen phaeton
>
>Which has electronic readout for the speedometer. They do not retain 
>readings after destruction.
>
>Jacobson has picked up on or created a lie.

Was the vehicle checked for signs of sabotage? You are quite right, in
that electronic speedometers do not retain readings in something like
a crash.

>
>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1949446 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A paradox: will they demand Schindler's descendants for compensations too?
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:50:04 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>
>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gcu1d6$9ss$1@aioe.org...
>> An amazing point of view to focus Jewish slave labor at German factories.
>
>There is very little that is amazing about this "point of view".
>
>It's not amazing that you, who insist that things have to be far more 
>complicated and expensive than necessary, would think of this.
>
>> My point is: what would have happened if some jews weren't employed as 
>> slave labor at German factories?
>
>Sorry, but you don't really have a point that is related to reality.   "What 
>would have happened if" for events in the past doesn't lead to anything.
>
>But what would have happened is likely one of two things.   First, following 
>the Nazi racial ideology that dictated that some peoples, such as Jews, 
>Slavs, Gypsies, etc. were lesser peoples - others, like Slavs, would have 
>been enslaved and worked to death.   The other is that the Nazi war effort 
>would have collapsed far earlier.
>
>This would, of course, have saved many German lives, too.

That is false, since the vast bulk of German loss of life happened
AFTER the war was officially over. An early surrender would only have
allowed the allied atrocities to have started earlier.

>
>>
>> According with the dOgMA, the answer is clear: they should have gone 
>> directly to the "gas chambers" and exterminated, that was the deal.
>
>Whose deal?  Yours?
>
>No, this is not what "should have" happened.   What "should have" happened 
>is that the war was not started, and that the Nazi racial ideology was 
>rejected for the crock that it is.
>
>But that's not what happened.   You're left with accepting what *did* 
>happen.
>
>
>> As conclusion, we could say that beneath to those factories and their need 
>> for manpower, those jews employed there were saved from a certain death.
>
>Actually, no.   Many were worked to death.   This was a deliberate policy, 
>as you can discover from statements by the Nazis.
>
>> They owe them their lives.
>
>They sure do don't.
>
>Many gave up their lives from mistreatment in these factories.
>
>You really should consider connecting with reality sometime.
>
>-pk
>
>
>
>> Then, Is it a reason to try gaining some money from them?
>>
>> On those late "runs for the money" through claims for compensations to 
>> Ford or some German firms, one can ask: will they arrive to the point of 
>> demanding some money to Schindler's descendants?
>>
>> At the end, did Schindler make money with some jews at his firm, or not?
>>
>> Just a tip to Spielberg to make "SChindler's list II: the vengeance"
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1949447 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:01:44 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:23:07 -0500, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>Jews were simply not worth that much effort. 
>
>>>Why, then, do their reports specifically single out Jews as a group,
>>>distinct from partisans?
>
>Well?
>
>>>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>>understanding of English?
>
>I didn't ask that you repeat your lies, I asked that you acknowledge
>them as such.
>
>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>he was forced to sign them. 
>
>Your "proof" of this is...?
>
>>Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>
>You "proof" of *this* is....?
>
>>It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>foreign language. 
>
>Given that he himself has stated he taught himself English, on what do
>you base this claim of "improbability?"

LOL

I've met a few people who claim to have "taught themselves German",
and a drunken polack would have sounded better. It is most improbable
that Höss had a grasp of English adequate to the tasks claimed for
him.

>
>
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:38 EDT 2008
Article: 1949448 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The same Question About the SS. Hoess' interrogation in German not in English at Nuremberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:01:57 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>    (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>       someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>          in message : 
>> 
>> 
>>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2008 23:23:07 -0500, Roger  wrote:
>> 
>..
>
>>>>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>>>understanding of English?
>> 
>> 
>> I didn't ask that you repeat your lies, I asked that you acknowledge
>> them as such.
>> 
>> 
>>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>>he was forced to sign them. 
>> 
>> 
>> Your "proof" of this is...?
>> 
>> 
>>>Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>> 
>> 
>> You "proof" of *this* is....?
>> 
>> 
>>>It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>>improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>>foreign language. 
>> 
>> 
>> Given that he himself has stated he taught himself English, on what do
>> you base this claim of "improbability?"
>> 
>
>If Hoess was so fluent in English, one can ask why, then, his interrogation was driven 
>through an interpreter at Nuremberg?
>
>TESTIMONY OF RUDOLF HOESS TAKEN
>AT NUREMBERG GERMANY, ON 1 APRIL,
>1946, 1430 to 1730 by Mr. Sender Jaari and
>Lt. Whitney Harris. Also present: Mr. George
>Sackheim, Interpreter: Piilani A. Ahuna, Court
>Reporter.
>
>QUESTION By MR. JAARI TO THE INTERPRETER:
>
>     Q Do you swear that you will fully and truly interpret the testimony from German to 
>English and English to German?
>
>     A I do.
>
>.../
>
>http://www.mazal.org/archive/H%D6SS/TEXT/HOS1-001.htm
>
>Testimony of RUDOLF HOESS, taken at Nurnberg
>Germany, 2 April 1946, 1000 to 1230, by Mr. S.
>Jaari, Interrogator. Also present: Mr. Leo Katz,
>Interpreter, and Charles J. Gallagher, Court Reporter.
>
>QUESTIONS BY MR JAARI TO MR. KATZ:
>
>     Q Do you solemnly swear that you will truly and faithfully translate my questions 
>from English to German, and the responses of the witness from German into English to the 
>best of your ability, so help you God?
>
>     A I do.
>.../
>
>http://www.mazal.org/archive/H%D6SS/TEXT/HOS2-001.htm
>
>Really, why then, his written "confession" was in English?

That is a really good question. Obviously Kenny has been trying to
bluff his way past my objection to the concept that Höss would write
his confession in a foreign language as a convenience to captors
intending to murder him.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:38 EDT 2008
Article: 1949449 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The same Question About the SS. Hoess' interrogation in German not in English at Nuremberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 02:43:27 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>Roger wrote:
>
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>    (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>       someone claiming to be ZULU wrote
>>          in message : 
>> 
>> 
>>>Roger wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>..
>> 
>> 
>>>>>>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>>>>>understanding of English?
>> 
>> 
>>>>I didn't ask that you repeat your lies, I asked that you acknowledge
>>>>them as such.
>> 
>> 
>>>>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>>>>he was forced to sign them. 
>> 
>> 
>>>>Your "proof" of this is...?
>> 
>> 
>>>>>Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>>>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>> 
>> 
>>>>You "proof" of *this* is....?
>> 
>> 
>>>>>It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>>>>improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>>>>foreign language. 
>> 
>> 
>>>>Given that he himself has stated he taught himself English, on what do
>>>>you base this claim of "improbability?"
>> 
>> 
>>>If Hoess was so fluent in English, one can ask why, then, his interrogation was driven 
>>>through an interpreter at Nuremberg?
>> 
>> 
>> To eliminate any possible chances of appeal based on errors in
>> translation?
>
>LOL, appeal? at Nuremberg?
>You must be kidding!

The verdicts had been pre-arranged some months before at Yalta. The
"trial" was a mere formality and it really didn't matter what was said
there by whom.

>
>> If Hoess could not understand English, why did he claim to have taught
>> himself the language back in 1924?
>> 
>> From "Commandant of Auschwitz, The Autobiography of Rudolf 
>> Hoess"
>> 
>>   
>> 
>> "During my free time > 1924>  I eagerly studied the English language, and had books of
>> instruction in it sent to me. Later I arranged for a continuous supply
>> of English books and periodicals, and consequently I was able, in
>> about a year, to learn this language without any outside assistance. I
>> found this a tremendous mental corrective." 
>> 
>>   
>
>And is that enough to write a "confession" in English?
>Was it better than in German to him?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:38 EDT 2008
Article: 1949450 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: mossad spied on haider
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 07:26:48 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>THE ISRAELI secret service spied on Jörg Haider, the right-wing Austrian 
>populist, using one of his closest aides to gather information on his 
>contacts with Arab dictators. Peter Sichrovsky said that he had been a 
>Mossad informant for five years until retiring from politics in 2002.
>
>"I wanted to help Israel and certainly did not do anything wrong," said Herr 
>Sichrovsky who was secretary-general of Herr Haider's Freedom party and a 
>member of the European Parliament. The Austrian state prosecutor said 
>yesterday that he would open an investigation to determine whether Herr 
>Sichrovsky should be prosecuted. Spying for a foreign power carries a jail 
>sentence of up to three years in Austria.
>
>The revelations, in the news weekly Profil, stunned the Austrian political 
>class. Herr Sichrovsky, who is of Jewish origin, was a controversial figure 
>for the conservative Right. The Jewish community regarded him as a traitor 
>for working with Herr Haider, while anti-Semitic Freedom party activists 
>made no secret of their distrust.
>
>The Freedom party became a member of Austria's governing coalition in 1999, 
>prompting a diplomatic boycott by the European Union. Herr Haider had 
>publicly praised the SS and Hitler's employment policies. Israel withdrew 
>its ambassador.
>
>Herr Sichrovsky was supposed to help Herr Haider to make peace with the 
>Jewish community. But at the same time the Israeli secret service was 
>anxious to know what Herr Haider was up to.
>
>"I was certainly not a James Bond," said Herr Sichrovsky, now a businessman 
>concerned with military co-operation between Israel and China. "It's true, 
>though, that I co-operated with Mossad until my withdrawal from politics in 
>2002."
>
>Herr Haider had extensive contacts with Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan 
>leader, and enjoyed a close friendship with one of the dictator's sons. 
>"Israel wanted to use Haider as a bridge to Arab countries with which it did 
>not have official contacts," Herr Sichrovsky said.
>
>His ties with the Israelis went well beyond occasional debriefings. In the 
>autumn of 2000 Herr Sichrovsky held talks with Syrian politicians about the 
>fate of three Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah in Lebanon. He was 
>accompanied by Herbert Scheibner, the Austrian Defence Minister, who was 
>also a member of the Freedom party. The idea was to demonstrate to both the 
>European Union and to Israel that Austria was a respectable member of the 
>world community.
>
>Herr Sichrovsky helped to arrange secret meetings in Austria between Israeli 
>and Palestinian negotiators. Yesterday he claimed to have set up Herr Haider's 
>controversial visit to Baghdad to meet Saddam Hussein in 2002. At the last 
>minute Herr Sichrovsky was denied an Iraqi visa so he could not pass on 
>first-hand information to Mossad. "They were, in any case, sure that Haider 
>was meeting a double," he said.
>
>Herr Haider remained calm yesterday. He said: "There were always people in 
>the party who warned me that he'd been sent by Mossad but there was never 
>anything concrete. If he was really sent by a secret service, then he must 
>have given them very little."
>
>source: the times 

It wouldn't be the first time that an assassination was camouflaged as
an automobile accident.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1949451 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About Hans Peter Skaliks
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:10:14 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:UaqdnXp5G6EswW_VnZ2dnUVZ_qninZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Leading Revisionist Scholar Hans Peter Skaliks, aka Johannes
>> von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>>he was forced to sign them. Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>>
>> That is incorrect, Mr. Skaliks. Hoess read and spoke English fluently.
>
>So the hebes say.
>
>
>
Kenny seems to be grasping at straws in all manner of ways. LOL

Kenny's claims do not constitute "proof" of anything.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1949453 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The same Question About the SS. Hoess' interrogation in German not in English at Nuremberg
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 19:34:46 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be ZULU wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>Roger wrote:
>
>>..
>
>>>>>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>>>>understanding of English?
>
>>> I didn't ask that you repeat your lies, I asked that you acknowledge
>>> them as such.
>
>>>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>>>he was forced to sign them. 
>
>>> Your "proof" of this is...?
>
>>>>Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>
>>> You "proof" of *this* is....?
>
>>>>It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>>>improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>>>foreign language. 
>
>>> Given that he himself has stated he taught himself English, on what do
>>> you base this claim of "improbability?"
>
>>If Hoess was so fluent in English, one can ask why, then, his interrogation was driven 
>>through an interpreter at Nuremberg?
>
>To eliminate any possible chances of appeal based on errors in
>translation?

You are contradicting yourself. If what you say were true, then no
translations would have been needed. Clearly the command of English
was NOT adequate to the task of dealing with an English-language
kangaroo court.

>
>If Hoess could not understand English, why did he claim to have taught
>himself the language back in 1924?
>
>From "Commandant of Auschwitz, The Autobiography of Rudolf 
>Hoess"
>
>  
>
>"During my free time 1924>  I eagerly studied the English language, and had books of
>instruction in it sent to me. Later I arranged for a continuous supply
>of English books and periodicals, and consequently I was able, in
>about a year, to learn this language without any outside assistance. I
>found this a tremendous mental corrective." 
>
>  
>
>
>
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Oct 13 16:10:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1949454 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:04:43 +1300, "Tilly" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6leb37Fbr799U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "a-little-sanity"; "please"  schreef in bericht 
>> news:gcsr1o$fml$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>> (88 MPH!  How symbolic!)
>>>
>>> http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/12/europe/EU-Austria-Haider-Crash.php
>>>
>>> Austria: Haider was speeding at twice limit
>> nonsense he was killed by the mossad who replaced his armoured car by a 
>> indentical one, not armoured. !!!!
>>
>> i9nh austria car5s donot drive in miles but in kilometers so your 
>> reference to 88 is childish
>
>
>
>The more I read the posts the dumber you seem to get,You posted the Daily 
>Mail Article, which has the speed in mph.
>
>"Carinthian police chief Ernst Friessnegger indicated that Mr Haider had 
>been travelling faster than the 43mph speed limit in what are believed to 
>have been foggy conditions."
>
>He said the car had started to skid for 'unknown reasons'

It would seem that sabotage is a possibility. Cars don't suddenly
start skidding without reason.


 and hit two 
>traffic signs before the front wheel on the left side slipped into a ditch.
>
>'The car mowed down a garden hedge, smashed into a concrete pillar and 
>collided with a fire hydrant. After that it turned over several times before 
>it came to a stop,' he said.....
>
>
>
>Do you understand that?
>
>It's easy enough for most people to understand.
>
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076669/Haider-square-jawed-darling-Austria-8217-s-Far-Right-dies-car-horror.htm


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1951640 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 00:38:18 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>a-little-sanity wrote:
>
>> In article <7m17f41hqp880ddshk6u93ct6etraopdou@4ax.com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>>Now,  his autobiography includes a great deal of information
>>>>about what happened in Auschwitz,  therefore your silly harping
>>>>about his confession is,  well,  silly.
>> 
>> 
>>>His autobiography is just bits of dye applied to paper. His claims
>>>would warrant physical investigation,
>> 
>> 
>> A study of the cyanide compounds in the Auschwitz gas chambers:
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
>
>LOL, to have some value you have to prove first that morgues were NEVER fumigated, moron.
>
>> Now,  where is the physical investigation proving your absurd accusations
>> against the Allies?  We want to see it,  Mr. Skaliks.
>
>Germans have to wake up form their deep lethargy to start some investigation of Eisenhower 
>camps. It can tke some time.

At this stage, sadly, we still seem to be at the stage of allied
stooges in power in Berlin. They can be counted upon to do whatever is
in the interests of the allied version of history.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1951645 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 15 Oct 2008 04:41:43 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , ZULU   wrote:
>
>> Bischoff was building morgues,
>
>The document says "gassing cellar":
>
>http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkeren/documents/auschwitz/Vergasungkeller.shtml

LOL

You're an illiterate buffoon.

Vergasungskeller does not say "gassing cellar". Literal translations
seldom work. What in your simple mind is a "Vergaser" or the term
"Deutsche Vergasergesellschaft"?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1951648 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Once Again The same Question About the SS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:59:19 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>On Sun, 12 Oct 2008 17:01:44 -0500, Roger  wrote:
>
>>>>>>Jews were simply not worth that much effort. 
>
>>>>>Why, then, do their reports specifically single out Jews as a group,
>>>>>distinct from partisans?
>
>>>Well?
>
>>>>>And when are you going to acknowledge your lies about Hoess'
>>>>>understanding of English?
>
>>>I didn't ask that you repeat your lies, I asked that you acknowledge
>>>them as such.
>
>>>>Höss' "confessions" were written for him in English by his captors and
>>>>he was forced to sign them. 
>
>>>Your "proof" of this is...?
>
>None.  As suspected.
>
>>>>Höss was hardly unique in that scenario.
>>>>It happened to lots of people and was pretty much the standard format.
>
>>>Your "proof" of *this* is....?
>
>None.  As expected.
>
>>>>It is most improbable that Höss knew any English and it is even more
>>>>improbable that he would write something like a confession in a
>>>>foreign language. 
>
>>>Given that he himself has stated he taught himself English, on what do
>>>you base this claim of "improbability?"
>
>>LOL
>>
>>I've met a few people who claim to have "taught themselves German",
>>and a drunken polack would have sounded better. It is most improbable
>>that Höss had a grasp of English adequate to the tasks claimed for
>>him.
>
>Because you say so?

Papal-style bombast and assertion is all I get from you, so why do I
need to get "proof", which wastes my time and which will just be
brushed off as invalid by your crew?


>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1951654 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:04:15 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>"Ben Cramer",  posting as Truth Will Out  wrote:
>
>> But no one is able to determine what speed the car was doing when it 
>> crashed. The story of 140 kph is a nonsense given the vehicle's speedometer 
>> stops reading as soon as the motor is turned off or the electronic circuit 
>> is closed.
>
>"His speedometer was stuck at 68 mph, which police believe was the speed he
>was traveling before the accident occurred."

Electronic speedometers do not get "stuck" on anything, anymore than a
smashed TV screen holds any remnants of the last image. The
speedometer reading is lost when the power stops or the display unit
is destroyed.

>
>There are many other references to this kind of thing happening.
>
>What say you,  worm?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1951657 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:50:24 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <0LyIk.5060$sc2.3639@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>Truth Will Out  wrote:
>
>> ; "please"  wrote in message 
>> news:gcsr1o$fml$1@pcls6.std.com...
>
>>> Police reconstructing the accident in southern Austria say the
>>> speedometer in the wreckage of Haider's Volkswagen sedan was stuck
>>> at 142 kilometers per hour (88 miles per hour).
>
>> The speedo on a Phaeton is electronic and would have died when the car was 
>> destroyed.
>
>Prove it,  worm.
>
>Why would it "have died"?  Did the battery die in the crash?

Do smashed TV screens retain the last image that was playing before
destruction? Electronic speedometer displays don't keep displaying
either, since it requires a continuous refresh of an electronic signal
to do that.

When the TV transmission station has an outage, the image vanishes
>from the screens of all the local TVs.

>
>You miserable idiot.
>
>> You've got to do much better, Mister Jacobson.
>
>Huh?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1951673 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:55:36 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>"Ben Cramer",  posting as Truth Will Out  wrote:
>
>> (i.e. the logistics
>> of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian Jews' bodies in three
>> weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses, 
>
>Let's see.  "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).

Bad arithmetic...

1 ton is 2000 lb or 907.18 kg as opposed to a tonne, which is 1000 kg.

The actual division amounts to 100.8 kg per victim, which is still
rather on the heavy side. Keep in mind that the figure of 450,000 is
rather approximate. The 50,000 tons is clearly a quick "ballpark"
figure as opposed to an exact total.

>
>"Cramer" is asserting that,  on the average,  a Jew deported to
>Auschwitz weighed a little more than a typical NFL linebacker.
>
>Is this guy just really,  REALLY stupid,  or is he totally insane?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 17 15:12:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1951674 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:56:33 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>"Ben Cramer",  posting as Truth Will Out  wrote:
>
>> "the logistics of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian
>> Jews' bodies in three weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses".
>
>Let's see.  "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).
>
>"Cramer" is asserting that,  on the average,  a Jew deported to
>Auschwitz weighed a little more than a typical NFL linebacker.
>
>Is this guy just really,  REALLY stupid,  or is he totally insane?

A British "ton" is 2000 lb or 907.18 kg. You did your calculation
using tonnes, which are 1000 kg each.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:14 EDT 2008
Article: 1952135 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 18, 4:32 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>> someone-somewhere wrote:
>> > In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>
>> >>Karl wrote:
>>
>> >>>On 15 Okt., 05:47, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>"ZULU"  wrote in messagenews:gd2rlm$j33$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> >>>>>jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>On Oct 14, 8:57 am, Karl  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>Is that a reason which justifies the ethnic cleansing of 4/5 of
>> >>>>>Palestinians living in the frontiers of Israel?
>>
>> >>>>>What you have suffered, your brothers made the same with many people
>> >>>>>without ANY justification. Their home haven't had stolen, they were ERASED
>> >>>>>as ALL the VILLAGE AROUND.
>>
>> >>>>He's not interested in that Zulu.
>>
>> >>>>All he's concerned about is himself. He couldn't give a shit for the
>> >>>>suffering of millions of others, and thinks the world owes him a living.
>>
>> >>>I didn't really want to argue with that guy.  He is so full of himself
>> >>>and so wrong it's not funny.
>>
>> >>>>>And, the occupation by force, daily humiliation, assassinations and the
>> >>>>>usual robbery of earth are still at work.
>>
>> >>>>>If your family have suffered so hard, How can you agree and support those
>> >>>>>crimes?
>>
>> >>>Who agrees with and supports those crimes?  You are so full of
>> >>>yourself.
>>
>> >>All those who support Israel policy  without any condition...
>> >>All those who don't claim to stop the occupation by force
>> >>All those who don't claim to stop the colonization
>> >>All those who don't claim to stop the daily crimes...
>>
>> >>Anything else?
>>
>> > Yes.  Don't forget to mention that the poor Palestinians are the
>> > ones mostly responsible for these "crimes",  due to their declared
>> > intent to annihilate Israel and their numerous acts of terror
>> > directed against Israeli civilians.
>>
>> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>
>There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:

The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
absurd.

>
>
>  The San Remo Conference, 1922
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"The San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 to assign the
>Mandate
>[for Palestine] under the League of Nations to Britain. The terms of
>the
>Mandate were also discussed with the United States which was not a
>member of the League. An agreed text was confirmed by the Council of
>the
>League of Nations on July 24, 1922, and it came into operation in
>September 1923."
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The Text of the document:
>
>The Council of the League of Nations:
>
>"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of
>giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the
>League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said
>Powers
>the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly
>belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed
>by them; and
>
>Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the
>Mandatory
>should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration
>originally
>made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic
>Majesty,
>and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in
>Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly
>understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil
>and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,
>or
>the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;
>and
>
>Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion
>of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for
>reconstituting their national home in that country;
>
>and
>
>Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic
>Majesty
>as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
>
>Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the
>following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for
>approval; and
>
>Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of
>Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of
>Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
>
>Whereas by the aforementioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided
>that the degree of authority, control or administration to be
>exercised
>by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the
>Members
>of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the
>League
>of Nations;
>
>Confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:
>
>*Article 1*.
>
>The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of
>administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this
>mandate.
>
>*Article 2.*
>
>The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such
>political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the
>establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the
>preamble,
>and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for
>safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of
>Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
>
>*Article 3.*
>
>The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local
>autonomy.
>
>*Article 4.*
>
>An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for
>the purpose of advising and cooperating with the Administration of
>Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the
>establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the
>Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of
>the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the
>country.
>
>The Zionist Organization, so long as its organization and constitution
>are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate shall be recognized as
>such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic
>Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are
>willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
>
>*Article 5.*
>
>The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine
>territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the
>control of, the Government of any foreign Power.
>
>*Article 6.*
>
>The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and
>position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall
>facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall
>encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in
>Article
>4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and
>waste
>lands not required for public purposes.
>
>*Article 7*.
>
>The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a
>nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed
>so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews
>who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
>
>*Article 8.*
>
>The privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of
>consular jurisdiction and protection as formerly enjoyed by
>Capitulation
>or usage in the Ottoman Empire, shall not be applicable in Palestine.
>
>Unless the Powers whose nationals enjoyed the aforementioned
>privileges
>and immunities on August 1st, 1914, shall have previously renounced
>the
>right to their re-establishment, or shall have agreed to their
>non-application for a specified period, these privileges and
>immunities
>shall, at the expiration of the mandate, be immediately re-established
>in their entirety or with such modifications as may have been agreed
>upon between the Powers concerned.
>
>*Article 9.*
>
>The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system
>established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to
>natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.
>
>Respect for the personal status of the various peoples and communities
>and for their religious interests shall be fully guaranteed. In
>particular, the control and administration of Waqfs shall be exercised
>in accordance with religious law and the dispositions of the founders.
>
>*Article 10.*
>
>Pending the making of special extradition agreements relating to
>Palestine, the extradition treaties in force between the Mandatory and
>other foreign Powers shall apply to Palestine.
>
>*Article 11.*
>
>The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to
>safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the
>development of the country, and, subject to any international
>obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to
>provide
>for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the
>country or of the public works, services and utilities established or
>to
>be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate
>to
>the needs of the country having regard, among other things, to the
>desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive
>cultivation
>of the land.
>
>The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in
>Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any
>public works, services and utilities, and to develop any of the
>natural
>resources of the country, in so far as these matters are not directly
>undertaken by the Administration. Any such arrangements shall provide
>that no profits distributed by such agency, directly or indirectly,
>shall exceed a reasonable rate of interest on the capital, and any
>further profits shall be utilized by it for the benefit of the country
>in a manner approved by the Administration.
>
>*Article 12.*
>
>The Mandatory shall be entrusted with the control of the foreign
>relations of Palestine, and the right to issue exequaturs to consuls
>appointed by foreign Powers. He shall also be entitled to afford
>diplomatic and consular protection to citizens of Palestine when
>outside
>its territorial limits.
>
>*Article 13.*
>
>All responsibility in connexion with the Holy Places and religious
>buildings or sites in Palestine, including that of preserving existing
>rights and of securing free access to the Holy Places, religious
>buildings and sites and the free exercise of worship, while ensuring
>the
>requirements of public order and decorum, is assumed by the Mandatory,
>who shall be responsible solely to the League of Nations in all
>matters
>connected herewith, provided that nothing in this article shall
>prevent
>the Mandatory from entering into such arrangements as he may deem
>reasonable with the Administration for the purpose of carrying the
>provisions of this article into effect; and provided also that nothing
>in this Mandate shall be construed as conferring upon the Mandatory
>authority to interfere with the fabric or the management of purely
>Moslem sacred shrines, the immunities of which are guaranteed.
>
>*Article 14.*
>
>A special Commission shall be appointed by the Mandatory to study,
>define and determine the rights and claims in connection with the Holy
>Places and the rights and claims relating to the different religious
>communities in Palestine. The method of nomination, the composition
>and
>the functions of this Commission shall be submitted to the Council of
>the League for its approval, and the Commission shall not be appointed
>or enter upon its functions without the approval of the Council.
>
>*Article 15.*
>
>The Mandatory shall see that complete freedom of conscience and the
>free
>exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of
>public order and morals are ensured to all. No discrimination of any
>kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground
>of
>race, religion or language. No person shall be excluded from Palestine
>on the sole ground of his religious belief.
>
>The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the
>education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to
>such educational requirements of a general nature as the
>Administration
>may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.
>
>*Article 16.*
>
>The Mandatory shall be responsible for exercising such supervision
>over
>religious or eleemosynary bodies of all faiths in Palestine as may be
>required for the maintenance of public order and good government.
>Subject to such supervision, no measures shall be taken in Palestine
>to
>obstruct or interfere with the enterprise of such bodies or to
>discriminate against any representative or member of them on the
>ground
>of his religion or nationality.
>
>*Article 17.*
>
>The Administration of Palestine may organize on a voluntary basis the
>forces necessary for the preservation of peace and order, and also for
>the defence of the country, subject however, to the supervision of the
>Mandatory, but shall not use them for purposes other than those above
>specified save with the consent of the Mandatory. Except for such
>purposes no military, naval or air forces shall be raised or
>maintained
>by the Administration of Palestine.
>
>Nothing in this article shall preclude the Administration of Palestine
>from contributing to the cost of the maintenance of the forces of the
>Mandatory in Palestine.
>
>The Mandatory shall be entitled at all times to use the roads,
>railways
>and ports of Palestine for the movement of armed forces and the
>carriage
>of fuel and supplies.
>
>*Article 18.*
>
>The Mandatory shall see that there is no discrimination in Palestine
>against the nationals of any State Member of the League of Nations
>(including companies incorporated under its laws) as compared with
>those
>of the Mandatory or of any foreign State in matters concerning
>taxation,
>commerce or navigation, the exercise of industries or professions, or
>in
>the treatment of merchant vessels or civil aircraft. Similarly, there
>shall be no discrimination in Palestine against goods originating in
>or
>destined for any of the said States, and there shall be freedom of
>transit under equitable conditions across the mandated area.
>
>Subject as aforesaid and to the other provisions of this mandate, the
>Administration of Palestine may, on the advice of the Mandatory,
>impose
>such taxes and customs duties as it may consider necessary, and take
>such steps as it may think best to promote the development of the
>natural resources of the country and to safeguard the interests of the
>population. It may also, on the advice of the Mandatory, conclude a
>special customs agreement with any State the territory of which in
>1914
>was wholly included in Asiatic Turkey or Arabia.
>
>*Article l9.*
>
>The Mandatory shall adhere on behalf of the Administration of
>Palestine
>to any general international conventions already existing, or which
>may
>be concluded hereafter with the approval of the League of Nations,
>respecting the slave traffic, the traffic in arms and ammunition, or
>the
>traffic in drugs, or relating to commercial equality, freedom of
>transit
>and navigation, aerial navitation and postal, telegraphic and wireless
>communicatiion or literary, artistic or industrial property.
>
>*Article 20.*
>
>The Mandatory shall co-operate on behalf of the Administration of
>Palestine, so far as religious, social and other conditions may
>permit,
>in the execution of any common policy adopted by the League of nations
>for preventing and combating disease, including diseases of plants and
>animals.
>
>*Article 21.*
>
>The Mandatory shall secure the enactment within twelve months from
>this
>date, and shall ensure the execution of a Law of Antiquities based on
>the following rules. This law shall ensure equality of treatment in
>the
>matter of excavations and archaeological research to the nationalals
>of
>all States Members of the League of Nations....
>
>*Article 22.*
>
>English, Arabic and Hebrew shall be the official languages of
>Palestine.
>Any statement or inscription in Arabic on stamps or money in Palestine
>shall be repeated in Hebrew and any statement or inscription in Hebrew
>shall be repeated in Arabic.
>
>*Article 23.*
>
>The Administration of Palestine shall recognize the holy days of the
>respective communities in Palestine as legal days of rest for the
>members of such communities.
>
>*Article 24.*
>
>The Mandatory shall make to the Council of the League of Nations an
>annual report to the satisfaction of the Council as to the measures
>taken during the year to carry out the provisions of the mandate.
>Copies
>of all laws and regulations promulgated or issued during the year
>shall
>be communicated with the report.
>
>*Article 25.*
>
>In the territories Iying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary
>of
>Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled,
>with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone
>or
>withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may
>consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make
>such
>provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider
>suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken
>which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18.
>
>*Article 26.*
>
>The Mandatory agrees that if any dispute whatever should arise between
>the Mandatory and another Member of the League of Nations relating to
>the interpretation or the application of the provisions of the
>mandate,
>such dispute, if it cannot be settled by negotiation, shall be
>submitted
>to the Permanent Court of International Justice provided for by
>Article
>14 of the Covenant of the League of Nations.
>
>*Article 27.*
>
>The consent of the Council of the League of Nations is required for
>any
>modification of the terms of this mandate.
>
>*Article 28.*
>
>In the event of the termination of the mandate hereby conferred upon
>the
>Mandatory, the Council of the League of Nations shall make such
>arrangements as may be deemed necessary for safeguarding in
>perpetuity,
>under guarantee of the League, the rights secured by Articles 13 and
>14,
>and shall use its influence for securing, under the guarantee of the
>League, that the Government of Palestine will fully honour the
>financial
>obligations legitimately incurred by the Administration of Palestine
>during the period of the mandate, including the rights of public
>servants to pensions or gratuities.
>
>The present instrument shall be deposited in original in the archives
>of
>the League of Nations and certified copies shall be forwarded by the
>Secretary General of the League of Nations to all Members of the
>League.
>
>DONE AT LONDON the twenty-fourth day of July, one thousand nine
>hundred
>and twenty-two."
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:15 EDT 2008
Article: 1952136 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 20:58:28 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Electronic speedometers do not get "stuck" on anything, anymore than 
>> a smashed TV screen holds any remnants of the last image.
>
>What an idiotic analogy.  

LOL

You just don't understand anything about physics or electronics.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:16 EDT 2008
Article: 1952138 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:04:24 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Do smashed TV screens retain the last image that was playing before
>> destruction? Electronic speedometer displays don't keep displaying
>> either, since it requires a continuous refresh of an electronic signal
>> to do that.
>
>Don't new,  expensive cars have a mechanism that records data
>in case of an accident?

They do have those facilities in airplanes, but it is a rather
expensive feature for a car.

>
>http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30802/article.html
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:16 EDT 2008
Article: 1952141 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:09:49 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 07:55:36 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> "Ben Cramer",  posting as Truth Will Out  wrote:
>
>>>> (i.e. the logistics
>>>> of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian Jews' bodies in three
>>>> weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses, 
>
>>> Let's see.  "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>>> victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).
>
>> Bad arithmetic...
>>
>> 1 ton is 2000 lb or 907.18 kg as opposed to a tonne, which is 1000 kg.
>
>I assumed a metric ton (1000 Kgs.).  However:

The prefix "k" for kilo is never capitalized and never made plural
either. It is 1 kg or 1000 kg. The unit remains unchanged.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton
>
>long ton (simply ton in countries such as the United Kingdom which formerly
>used the Imperial system of weights and measures) is a weight ton or gross
>ton, and is 2,240 pounds (exactly 1,016.0469088 kg). In the UK and most of
>the areas which used the Imperial system, the metric ton (1,000 kg), which
>is conveniently very similar to—less than 2% difference—is the only for
>ton legal for trade. 
>
>> The actual division amounts to 100.8 kg per victim, which is still
>> rather on the heavy side.
>
>Yes,  indeed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:16 EDT 2008
Article: 1952143 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 15:27:43 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 18 Oct, 22:29, "I'll Always Be Here" 
>wrote:
>> "Kosher Cunny"  wrote innews:gddih0$5o0$1@registered.motzarella.org:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Ariadne"  wrote in message
>> > news:c9c3f83a-df5c-4712-bb21-19b72decdfe2
>>
>> @h60g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 17 Oct, 22:13, a-little-sanity,  please 
>> > wrote:
>> >> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >> >a-little-sanity, please  wrote:
>> >> >>"Ben Cramer", posting as Truth Will Out 
>> >> >>wrote:
>> >> >>> "the logistics of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian
>> >> >>> Jews' bodies in three weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses".
>> >> >> Let's see. "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>> >> >> victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).
>>
>> >> >> "Cramer" is asserting that, on the average, a Jew deported to
>> >> >> Auschwitz weighed a little more than a typical NFL linebacker.
>>
>> >> >> Is this guy just really, REALLY stupid, or is he totally insane?
>> >> > A British "ton" is 2000 lb or 907.18 kg.
>>
>> >> No. "The British ton (the long ton), is 2240 pounds".
>> >> Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units
>>
>> >> But even if you were correct, "Cramer's" figure would still be a gross
>> >> overestimate.
>>
>> >>I've never heard of a "long" ton but I never
>> >>imagined I'd see such stupidity as innumerates
>> >>trying to estimate the weight of massed corpses.
>>
>> >>What do these "people" have between their
>> >>ears?
>>
>> >>To make it worse it seems that "people" is
>> >>just dumbkopf KKKramer talking to himself...
>>
>>
>> Show us a "ton that is close to 2500-3000 pounds you ignornant drong. You
>> should look these things up before willingly making an ass of yourself.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>KKKramer wouldn't know it but we refer to a
>ton - 2240 lbs - or a metric tonne.
>
>These days it's really a tonne...

A tonne is SI measure and equal to 1000 kg. It is the international
standard, at least today.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:17 EDT 2008
Article: 1952145 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Holocaust Revisionism?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 23:46:22 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Simon Trent"  wrote in message 
>news:44ljf4tpjv3e552v3mkfat4hf3ugql9n6b@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:07:27 -0500, kmcvay@shell.vex.net (Kenneth
>> McVay OBC) wrote:
>>
>>>Mr. O'Keefe, a Harvard dropout, is not a Holocaust revisionist.
>>
>> What are your academic credentials, Mr. McVay?
>
>Zip.

At least McVay is consistent. He sounds like a zip and he also has low
academic achievement.

>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:17 EDT 2008
Article: 1952362 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
 wrote:

>In article , ZULU   wrote:
>
>> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.
>
>The Arabs are guilty of having launched a war of extermination
>(their terminology by the way) against Israel,  which was founded
>fair and square according to a UN vote. THAT is the root of the
>problem.

The land didn't belong to the UN to give away. The Arabs had every
right to resist people intending to murder and displace them.


>
>And oh,  700,000 Jews left the Arab nations,  leaving behind
>everything they had.  However,  as opposed to the Palestinians,
>they have built themselves a new life,  and did not sit on their
>ass and whine for sixty years.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:17 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:35:41 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 17 Oct 2008 21:04:24 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Don't new,  expensive cars have a mechanism that records data
>>> in case of an accident?
>
>> They do have those facilities in airplanes, but it is a rather
>> expensive feature for a car.
>
>http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30802/article.html
>
>"There, a driver involved in a double fatality claimed he had been
>travelling at about 100km/h. However, the electronic record logged
>by his vehicle's airbag showed that his speed just five seconds before
>impact was, in fact, 184km/h!"

My car is not so equipped, and neither is the vast bulk of the world's
automobiles.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:18 EDT 2008
Article: 1952365 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:05:34 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>B.H. Cramer  wrote:
>
>(...)
>
>Let us not forget how this thread started:
>
>"the logistics of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian
>Jews' bodies in three weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses".
>
>This is from a post by "Ben Cramer",  with Message-ID
><4MKdnSvnVuD_lmrVnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>.
>
>Let's see.  "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).
>
>"Cramer" is asserting that,  on the average,  a Jew deported to
>Auschwitz weighed a little more than a typical NFL linebacker.
>
>Is this guy just really,  REALLY stupid,  or is he totally insane?

You obviously cannot read. The article did not say 50,000 tonnes, it
said 50,000 tons. The two units are not the same.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:18 EDT 2008
Article: 1952366 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jorg Haider a FAG???
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 16:06:49 +1300, "Tilly" 
wrote:

>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6ltvqoFe0tuhU1@mid.individual.net...
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1078408/Road-death-politician-got-drunk-gay-bar-hours-car-crash--targeted-saboteurs.html
>> Sabotage: Austrian far-Right leader Jorg Haider died in a car crash last 
>> week after being nearly four times over the legal limit Austrian far-Right 
>> leader Jorg Haider's car may have been sabotaged before he crashed, it was 
>> claimed.
>> Haider died when his Volkswagen Phaeton veered off the road in the early 
>> hours of Saturday morning last week after a boozy celebration party for 
>> Austria's right wing leaders.
>>
>> As throngs of right-wing crowds gathered for his funeral today, makers of 
>> the VW Phaeton limo he was driving insist their car is one of the safest 
>> in the world and should have survived the crash. VW spokesman Peter Thul 
>> claimed that someone with access to Haider's car key could have 
>> manipulated the car's electrics. The car giants have sent their own 
>> experts to examine the wreckage and search for signs it may have been 
>> sabotaged.
>>
>> It has also been revealed that on the day of his death, Haider spent part 
>> of his last night drinking in a gay club called 'Stadtkraemer.' Police 
>> have told Haider's family he had a blood alcohol level of 1.8 pro mille - 
>> nearly four times Austria's 0.5 limit. Thul told The Sun: "It is a fact 
>> that Haider was going too fast, but such a speed on that curve is not a 
>> problem for the car's physics.
>> "The Phaeton and Audi A8 are the safest of all. You'd need the key to 
>> manipulate the electronics, so someone at a garage
>>
>> The Stadtkraemer - which translates to The City Shopkeeper - is a well 
>> known haunt for the Klagenfurt gay community and advertises itself on the 
>> Internet with the slogan: "Whether old or young, lesbian or gay, the 
>> restaurant is always cool."
>>
>> A fellow diner offered to drive Haider home because he looked the worse 
>> for wear, but the 58-year-old governor of the state of Carinthia turned 
>> him down.
>> Haider headed for the notorious gay establishment after his appearance at 
>> a night club, the public prosecutor in Klagenfurt confirmed.
>>
>> He arrived at a quarter past midnight on Saturday morning, left thirty 
>> minutes later and was dead within half-an-hour.
>>
>> Despite being married with two daughters, Haider was "outed" years ago by 
>> the Austrian and German press
>>
>> Talk about something that's MIND BLOWING!!!
>>
>> How the hell did they keep this shit a secret from the rest of the world
>
>
>That's easy, cou tries in which people watch OS news and read news websites 
>have known for years.
>It is very old news.
>
>all
>> these years ASSUMING it's TRUE???? FAG BARS in the Austrian province of 
>> Carinthia???
>
>Yes.
>There are gays in Austria , there are gay bars  in Austria.
>Sothere is one in Corinthia? So what?

Corinthia? Corinth in Greece is well known, but I must confess that I
have never heard of Corinthia. Do you mean Kärnten?

>
>
>> There was a lady on Rense.com last night that that explained it was A. The 
>> City of London that WHACKED HIM (as most have speculated)
>
>
>lol.
>Why would they ?
>
>
>B. the guys in the
>> other Nationalist Party whose Haider's party is supposed to merge with 
>> WHACKED HIM.
>
>Possible but not likely.
>
>
>
>> Her site loaded with articles about the murder of Jorg Haider:
>>
>> http://www.rumormillnews.com/
>
>lol.
>
>Rumour and speculation, nothing more.
>
>Why can't you people just accept that Haider was very drunk and driving at 
>over 180 kph (not 142 kph as originally reported) .
>Shameful behaviour!


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:18 EDT 2008
Article: 1952500 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:24:15 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>
>>
>> >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> >There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> >it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> >legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> >League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> absurd.<
>
>The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>if you conquered it, you owned it.

No, garbageguz, you are describing Asiatic barbarism. Nobody
"conquered" Germany. Germany was simply swindled at a fraudulent
"peace treaty" by a fraudulent organization.

Besides, if you figure that Jews have some right to murder and
displace Arabs, then the reverse is also true.

Are you so simple-minded as to believe that Poles and Czechs have some
"right" to German lands they managed to appropriate after WW2?
Logically, if this kind of thing is appropriate for Poles and Czechs,
then it is also appropriate for Germans to recover their property
using the same sorts of methods as the Poles and Czechs did to steal
it in the first place.

By your arguments, there is nothing wrong with Arabs blowing up
Israelis, since they are just using the conquest route to acquire
land, a method you have called legitimate.





>  At least the creation of the
>League did take into account, to a certain degree, the desires of the
>local population in accordance to Woodrow Wilson's radical idea of
>"self-determination." But in the case of Palestine, they made an
>unusual decision, that a nation in exile for the first time in
>history, had the right to return and resettle its ancient homeland.
>You can disagree with that decision, but that became international
>law.
>It was  a unique decision to resolve a unique situation, because there
>was no other case of a surviving nation that had been so wholly
>dispossessed as was the case with the Jewish nation. Not only were
>they dispossessed, but dispersed as well, but never lost their
>identity or their belief in their return someday.  And it was
>particularly just, because it was a European empire, the Roman empire,
>that had caused the destruction, dispossession and dispersal of that
>nation. So it was only fair, especially since the Arabs, who had been
>under Turkish rule for 400 years, had not liberated themselves, but
>had been liberated by Allied, mostly British forces. ANd most of that
>territory was to become Arab states. So the Jews had a right to
>something too.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >  The San Remo Conference, 1922
>>
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >"The San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 to assign the
>> >Mandate
>> >[for Palestine] under the League of Nations to Britain. The terms of
>> >the
>> >Mandate were also discussed with the United States which was not a
>> >member of the League. An agreed text was confirmed by the Council of
>> >the
>> >League of Nations on July 24, 1922, and it came into operation in
>> >September 1923."
>>
>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >The Text of the document:
>>
>> >The Council of the League of Nations:
>>
>> >"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of
>> >giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the
>> >League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said
>> >Powers
>> >the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly
>> >belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed
>> >by them; and
>>
>> >Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the
>> >Mandatory
>> >should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration
>> >originally
>> >made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic
>> >Majesty,
>> >and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in
>> >Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly
>> >understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil
>> >and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,
>> >or
>> >the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;
>> >and
>>
>> >Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion
>> >of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for
>> >reconstituting their national home in that country;
>>
>> >and
>>
>> >Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic
>> >Majesty
>> >as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
>>
>> >Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the
>> >following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for
>> >approval; and
>>
>> >Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of
>> >Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of
>> >Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
>>
>> >Whereas by the aforementioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided
>> >that the degree of authority, control or administration to be
>> >exercised
>> >by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the
>> >Members
>> >of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the
>> >League
>> >of Nations;
>>
>> >Confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:
>>
>> >*Article 1*.
>>
>> >The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of
>> >administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this
>> >mandate.
>>
>> >*Article 2.*
>>
>> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such
>> >political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the
>> >establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the
>> >preamble,
>> >and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for
>> >safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of
>> >Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
>>
>> >*Article 3.*
>>
>> >The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local
>> >autonomy.
>>
>> >*Article 4.*
>>
>> >An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for
>> >the purpose of advising and cooperating with the Administration of
>> >Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the
>> >establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the
>> >Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of
>> >the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the
>> >country.
>>
>> >The Zionist Organization, so long as its organization and constitution
>> >are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate shall be recognized as
>> >such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic
>> >Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are
>> >willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
>>
>> >*Article 5.*
>>
>> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine
>> >territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the
>> >control of, the Government of any foreign Power.
>>
>> >*Article 6.*
>>
>> >The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and
>> >position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall
>> >facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall
>> >encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in
>> >Article
>> >4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and
>> >waste
>> >lands not required for public purposes.
>>
>> >*Article 7*.
>>
>> >The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a
>> >nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed
>> >so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews
>> >who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
>>
>> >*Article 8.*
>>
>> >The privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of
>> >consular jurisdiction and protection as formerly enjoyed by
>> >Capitulation
>> >or usage in the Ottoman Empire, shall not be applicable in Palestine.
>>
>> >Unless the Powers whose nationals enjoyed the aforementioned
>> >privileges
>> >and immunities on August 1st, 1914, shall have previously renounced
>> >the
>> >right to their re-establishment, or shall have agreed to their
>> >non-application for a specified period, these privileges and
>> >immunities
>> >shall, at the expiration of the mandate, be immediately re-established
>> >in their entirety or with such modifications as may have been agreed
>> >upon between the Powers concerned.
>>
>> >*Article 9.*
>>
>> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system
>> >established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to
>> >natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.
>>
>> >Respect for the personal status of the various peoples and communities
>> >and for their religious interests shall be fully guaranteed. In
>> >particular, the control and administration of Waqfs shall be exercised
>> >in accordance with religious law and the dispositions of the founders.
>>
>> >*Article 10.*
>>
>> >Pending the making of special extradition agreements relating to
>> >Palestine, the extradition treaties in force between the Mandatory and
>> >other foreign Powers shall apply to Palestine.
>>
>> >*Article 11.*
>>
>> >The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to
>> >safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the
>> >development of the country, and, subject to any international
>> >obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to
>> >provide
>> >for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the
>> >country or of the public works, services and utilities established or
>> >to
>> >be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate
>> >to
>> >the needs of the country having regard, among other things, to the
>> >desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive
>> >cultivation
>> >of the land.
>>
>> >The Administration may arrange with the Jewish agency mentioned in
>> >Article 4 to construct or operate, upon fair and equitable terms, any
>> >public works,
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:19 EDT 2008
Article: 1952501 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
 wrote:

>On 19 Oct, 21:45, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away.
>
>The UN didn't exist when the Ottoman
>Empire lost the land in WWI.
>
>> The Arabs had every
>> right to resist
>
>Nonsense.  Britain had the stewardship
>of the land.

Britain was for centuries the world's foremost thief. Britain had no
right to these lands and they certainly had no right to give them away
to their buddies and confederates.

>  Britain should have created
>the Jewish national home there.

Britain had the right to create a Jewish homeland in Britain, but they
had no right to create such a state on the land of others. All of
Britain's nation-building adventures have ended in disaster. Britain's
artificial state of Czechoslovakia and Versailles-Poland were a major
cause of WW2. The Versailles-state of Yugoslavia was also an
unmitigated disaster that led to huge losses of life.

>
>Arabs sold land at exorbitant prices to
>Jews and those Arab sellers should have
>taken care of the itinerant labour working
>the land.
>
>Strange that the Arabs did not blame the
>effendi class.
>
>Strange that you don't.
>
>If you Google "jgarbuz" and "League of
>Nations" in Google Groups you too can
>become well-informed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:19 EDT 2008
Article: 1952502 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:27:51 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 19, 4:45 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>
>> >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.
>>
>> >The Arabs are guilty of having launched a war of extermination
>> >(their terminology by the way) against Israel,  which was founded
>> >fair and square according to a UN vote. THAT is the root of the
>> >problem.
>>
>> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away. The Arabs had every
>> right to resist people intending to murder and displace them.<
>
>There was no intent to murder anybody. The Jewish  settlers were given
>the right to settle empty lands,

The lands were not empty. The Jewish settlers had the intention from
the start to erect a "Jewish state". A Jewish state is one in which
Jews have a monopoly on the use of force. We allow all manner of
immigrants to Ontario, for example, but if any of these wanted to
erect a "state" dedicated to ethnicity "X", it would be quite
legitimate to oppose them by every means possible.


> wastelands, and former Sultan's state
>lands, and to buy land from Arab landowners to use for settlement. ANd
>that is  exactly what the Jews did up until November 1947. Not one
>inch of land was stolen from an Arab landowner. But then the Arabs
>rejected the UN Partition Plan and went to all out war against the new
>UN-authorized State of Israel, and that caused the two refugee
>situations to happen. EVery war causes refugees. I myself am one.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >And oh,  700,000 Jews left the Arab nations,  leaving behind
>> >everything they had.  However,  as opposed to the Palestinians,
>> >they have built themselves a new life,  and did not sit on their
>> >ass and whine for sixty years.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:20 EDT 2008
Article: 1952503 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>  wrote:
>
>>> The Arabs are guilty of having launched a war of extermination
>>> (their terminology by the way) against Israel,  which was founded
>>> fair and square according to a UN vote. THAT is the root of the
>>> problem.
>
>> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away. 
>
>It sure like hell didn't belong to the Arabs.  It was occupied
>by the British.
>
>> The Arabs had every
>> right to resist people intending to murder and displace them.
>
>You're terribly confused.  The Arabs started the 1948 war with the intent
>of exterminating the Israelis.

The Jewish invaders had no business being there in the first place.
The intent to erect a "state" on the land of somebody else is in
itself an act of war, so the Jews started the conflict decades earlier
through their obvious intention of setting up a Jewish state, a
jurisdication in which Jews had a monopoly on violence. It would be
unreasonable to expect the indigenous population to simply permit
this.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:20 EDT 2008
Article: 1952504 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:16 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <857nf4t14ffaspbbuls7svomupkd0loakk@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:35:41 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30802/article.html
>>>
>>> "There, a driver involved in a double fatality claimed he had been
>>> travelling at about 100km/h. However, the electronic record logged
>>> by his vehicle's airbag showed that his speed just five seconds before
>>> impact was, in fact, 184km/h!"
>
>> My car is not so equipped, and neither is the vast bulk of the world's
>> automobiles.
>
>Again,  you provide no facts.
>
>Do you know that the Phaeton is not so equipped?

The manufacturer says no, and they really ought to be in a position to
know.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:20 EDT 2008
Article: 1952505 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:13:30 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:05:34 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Let us not forget how this thread started:
>>>
>>> "the logistics of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian
>>> Jews' bodies in three weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses".
>>>
>>> This is from a post by "Ben Cramer",  with Message-ID
>>> <4MKdnSvnVuD_lmrVnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com>.
>>>
>>> Let's see.  "50,000 tons of corpses" divided by 450,000
>>> victims is 111 Kgs. per victim (244 pounds).
>>>
>>> "Cramer" is asserting that,  on the average,  a Jew deported to
>>> Auschwitz weighed a little more than a typical NFL linebacker.
>>>
>>> Is this guy just really,  REALLY stupid,  or is he totally insane?
>
>> You obviously cannot read. 
>
>You obviously are an idiot.
>
>> The article did not say 50,000 tonnes, it
>> said 50,000 tons. The two units are not the same.
>
>I am giving "Cramer" the benefit of doubt.  If he did mean "tons",
>then his figure is even more absurd,  since a "ton" as used in
>Britain and Australia is more than a tonne.

Long tons are slightly more than a tonne, but those have never been
the standard unit in Canada. I rather doubt that the Australians would
have used long tons as the default.

>
>And anyway,  whatever unit he was using,  his figure is idiotic
>beyond belief.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:21 EDT 2008
Article: 1952529 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: trash from Kristallnacht found in Berlin
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 08:28:41 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>BERLIN - Trash from Kristallnacht has been found in a large garbage dump an 
>hour's drive north of Berlin, Israeli journalist and treasure-hunter Yaron 
>Svoray has announced.
>
>Svoray announced the discovery Sunday, and is planning to release more 
>details today.
>
>Svoray plans to announce the precise location of the garbage dump, where 
>trash from the Night of Broken Glass was tossed after the deadly anti-Jewish 
>riots of November 9, 1938, at a press conference today to help the German 
>authorities search the site.
>     Advertisement
>
>The dump, which is about the size of four soccer fields, was in use between 
>the beginning of the 20th century and World War II.
>
>"There is no issue here of treasure or money," said Svoray, who discovered 
>the finds while searching for a different historical artifact. "There is a 
>chance here for a historic discovery that should be dealt with on a state 
>level or the level of the Brandenburg district, where the area is located."
>
>The finds include a glass bottle with a Star of David imprinted on the 
>bottom.
>
>The Ghetto Fighters' Museum in the Galilee, which was involved in the 
>search, confirmed the approximate date of the bottle.
>
>Svoray became famous in the 1990s, after infiltrating neo-Nazi groups in 
>Germany.
>
>The museum's experts have determined "with high probability that the glass 
>bottle is from the period before Kristallnacht," said Tanya Ronen, who is 
>responsible for the museum's ties to Germany.
>
>Ronen said if the German government agrees, the museum would like to send 
>its own experts to examine the finds, as well as groups of students.
>
>Hundreds of Jews were killed and tens of thousands were arrested during 
>Kristallnacht. German rioters also destroyed synagogues and Jewish 
>businesses.

"Hundreds" amounted to 36 fatalities and the "tens of thousands" of
arrests amounted to 10,000 of whom almost all were released by the
next day.

844 of the slightly more than 100,000 Jewish businesses/warehouses in
Germany were damaged or destroyed.

177 of the 1420 Jewish places of worship in Germany were damaged or
destroyed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:21 EDT 2008
Article: 1952530 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:07:03 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>  wrote:
>
>>> You're terribly confused.  The Arabs started the 1948 war with 
>>> the intent of exterminating the Israelis.
>
>> The Jewish invaders had no business being there in the first place.
>
>They were not "invaders" by any legal or moral sense.  They
>legally immigrated to a British colony.  The Arabs -- who
>were also immigrants,  by the way -- refused to accept this
>fact,  and the fact that the UN decided to establish the
>state of Israel,  and they commenced a war against Israel,
>with the declared intent of annihilating it.  Well, they lost.
>
>What do you find so difficult to understand?

They were not "legitimate" immigrants. They went there with the
express purpose of setting up a Jewish state and murdering or
dispossessing the indigenous population. The indigenous population had
and has every right to resist this process by any means possible.

There is nothing wrong with blowing up Jews in the West Bank or Gaza,
since these are armed squatters trying to dispossess the locals. The
rest of Israel is an illegitimate entity created on stolen land.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:21 EDT 2008
Article: 1952531 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:08:14 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:16 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> Do you know that the Phaeton is not so equipped?
>
>> The manufacturer says no, 
>
>Citation,  please.

Phone your local dealer and ask. It isn't my job to run errands for
some demented homophobic bigot such as yourself.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:21 EDT 2008
Article: 1952532 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:18:32 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:13:30 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> I am giving "Cramer" the benefit of doubt.  If he did mean "tons",
>>> then his figure is even more absurd,  since a "ton" as used in
>>> Britain and Australia is more than a tonne.
>
>> Long tons are slightly more than a tonne, but those have never been
>> the standard unit in Canada. I rather doubt that the Australians would
>> have used long tons as the default.
>
>You often "doubt" or "think" without providing any rational reason.  If
>you know what they consider a "ton",  post the evidence.

All the Canadian school texts in use before Canada adopted SI units
gave a ton as being 2,000 lb.

>
>Also,  even if "Cramer" meant a "short ton",  then his estimate would
>be that an average Hungarian Jew deported to Auschwitz weighed 101 Kgs.,
>an absurd figure.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:22 EDT 2008
Article: 1952533 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 14:57:36 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  schreef in bericht 
>news:436fb360-9397-4522-ad2b-8ce66573f817@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 20, 5:27 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> A photograph of Pope Benedict XVI emblazoned with a superimposed Nazi
>> swastika appeared on Monday on a website run by self-proclaimed supporters
>> of the Kadima party.
>>
>> It was later removed, and replaced with a picture of a smiling Benedict
>> overlooking a crowd-filled St. Peter's Square in the Vatican, after what
>> "the Yalla Kadima" site said was a request from Kadima's leader, prime
>> minister-designate Tzipi Livni.
>>
>> "Tzipi Livni strongly condemns this and we are working to remove this
>> shameful picture. We strongly oppose this. It doesn't represent Kadima,"
>> spokesman Amir Goldstein said shortly before the photo was changed.
>>
>> It was the latest twist in a controversy over whether the German-born Pope
>> should promote the sainthood of his Nazi-era predecessor Pius XII.
>>
>> Pius, who reigned from 1939 to 1958, has been accused by some Jews of
>> turning a blind eye to the Holocaust during World War II, a charge his
>> supporters and the Vatican deny.
>>
>> "Yalla Kadima", which describes itself as a portal for "activists and
>> supporters" of the Kadima party, had carried the swastika-emblazoned photo
>> of Benedict alongside an article on the sainthood controversy.
>
>
>Is this any worse than the insults we see leveled at rabbis all the
>time here?
>
>you cannot compare the holy pope with a rabbi.

Indeed, the Pope has immensely more prestige and credibility than some
silly superstitious rabbi.



> i recently read an article in 
>which was said thaqt a rabbi was arrested for having drugs in his 
>possession. rabbis are dirty old men whereas the pope, although old, is the 
>representative of the lord on earth 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:22 EDT 2008
Article: 1952855 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:29:56 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 7:40 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:24:15 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> >> >There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >> >defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> >> >it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >> >occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >> >return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> >> >legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> >> >League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >> The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >> religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >> absurd.<
>>
>> >The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >if you conquered it, you owned it.
>>
>> No, garbageguz,<
>
>I see you are adopting Cramer's ways.
>
> you are describing Asiatic barbarism. Nobody
>> "conquered" Germany. Germany was simply swindled at a fraudulent
>> "peace treaty" by a fraudulent organization.<
>
>While the German army was not defeated on the field, the country
>itself was totally exhausted.

The British and the French were even more exhausted and would have
lost if the USA had not intervened at the last moment.

> There were Germans who were experiencing
>malnutrition and at the verge of starvation.

That was the consequence of the illegal allied blockade that
persisted, in violation of the terms, past the time of the armistice.

> They might have kept the
>war going, but with the inexhaustible resources of America behind the
>Allies, it would have only been a matter of time before Germany was
>invaded and occupied, as happened after WWII.

There is nothing inexhaustible about the USA, as more recent history
has shown. They have no appetite for large casualty lists. The USA
specializes in attacking small countries. WW2 wasn't the American's
doing. Without the USSR, that campaign would have gone nowhere. In
WW1, Russia was defeated and no longer available to take casualties to
spare Americans.

>>
>> Besides, if you figure that Jews have some right to murder and
>> displace Arabs, then the reverse is also true.<
>
>Jews never claimed that right, and never exercised it. 

Horseshit.

>The Arabs made
>the war, and suffered some of the consequences of defeat.

This is more nonsense. The Arabs merely failed to protect what was
rightfully theirs from invaders.

>
>> Are you so simple-minded as to believe that Poles and Czechs have some
>> "right" to German lands they managed to appropriate after WW2?<
>
>What German lands? Czech land is Czech land. It was the Germans who
>expanded into other people's lands, just as the ARabs had. That's what
>an empire is, an expansion into other people's homeland.

Nonsense. Bohemia and Moravia was already inhabited by Germans before
there were any Slavs in Europe. Czechoslovakia was an artificial
country created by Versailles in 1919. Fortunately, it no longer
exists. 

>
>> Logically, if this kind of thing is appropriate for Poles and Czechs,
>> then it is also appropriate for Germans to recover their property
>> using the same sorts of methods as the Poles and Czechs did to steal
>> it in the first place.<
>
>Germany was let off easy after WWII because of the Cold War.

You're full of shit. They suffered some of the worst atrocities of all
time at the hands of the rapacious allies.

>
>> By your arguments, there is nothing wrong with Arabs blowing up
>> Israelis, since they are just using the conquest route to acquire
>> land, a method you have called legitimate.<
>
>Israel is totally legitimate.

Nonsense


>As I have repeatedly and exhaustively
>explained, the League of Nations

The League of Nations was an allied creation, a farce, intended to
serve allied interests. Its pontifications are meaningless.

> recognized that the JEwish National
>Homeland is in what you Gentiles callled "Palestine" or "The Holy
>Land." And gave Jews the RIGHT to immigrate and resettle their
>homeland.

The League of Nations was itself party to a crime against humanity.

>
>> >  At least the creation of the
>> >League did take into account, to a certain degree, the desires of the
>> >local population in accordance to Woodrow Wilson's radical idea of
>> >"self-determination." But in the case of Palestine, they made an
>> >unusual decision, that a nation in exile for the first time in
>> >history, had the right to return and resettle its ancient homeland.
>> >You can disagree with that decision, but that became international
>> >law.
>> >It was  a unique decision to resolve a unique situation, because there
>> >was no other case of a surviving nation that had been so wholly
>> >dispossessed as was the case with the Jewish nation. Not only were
>> >they dispossessed, but dispersed as well, but never lost their
>> >identity or their belief in their return someday.  And it was
>> >particularly just, because it was a European empire, the Roman empire,
>> >that had caused the destruction, dispossession and dispersal of that
>> >nation. So it was only fair, especially since the Arabs, who had been
>> >under Turkish rule for 400 years, had not liberated themselves, but
>> >had been liberated by Allied, mostly British forces. ANd most of that
>> >territory was to become Arab states. So the Jews had a right to
>> >something too.
>>
>> >> >  The San Remo Conference, 1922
>>
>> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >"The San Remo Conference decided on April 24, 1920 to assign the
>> >> >Mandate
>> >> >[for Palestine] under the League of Nations to Britain. The terms of
>> >> >the
>> >> >Mandate were also discussed with the United States which was not a
>> >> >member of the League. An agreed text was confirmed by the Council of
>> >> >the
>> >> >League of Nations on July 24, 1922, and it came into operation in
>> >> >September 1923."
>>
>> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >The Text of the document:
>>
>> >> >The Council of the League of Nations:
>>
>> >> >"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of
>> >> >giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the
>> >> >League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said
>> >> >Powers
>> >> >the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly
>> >> >belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed
>> >> >by them; and
>>
>> >> >Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the
>> >> >Mandatory
>> >> >should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration
>> >> >originally
>> >> >made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic
>> >> >Majesty,
>> >> >and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in
>> >> >Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly
>> >> >understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil
>> >> >and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine,
>> >> >or
>> >> >the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country;
>> >> >and
>>
>> >> >Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connexion
>> >> >of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for
>> >> >reconstituting their national home in that country;
>>
>> >> >and
>>
>> >> >Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic
>> >> >Majesty
>> >> >as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
>>
>> >> >Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the
>> >> >following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for
>> >> >approval; and
>>
>> >> >Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of
>> >> >Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of
>> >> >Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and
>>
>> >> >Whereas by the aforementioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided
>> >> >that the degree of authority, control or administration to be
>> >> >exercised
>> >> >by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the
>> >> >Members
>> >> >of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the
>> >> >League
>> >> >of Nations;
>>
>> >> >Confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows:
>>
>> >> >*Article 1*.
>>
>> >> >The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation and of
>> >> >administration, save as they may be limited by the terms of this
>> >> >mandate.
>>
>> >> >*Article 2.*
>>
>> >> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such
>> >> >political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the
>> >> >establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the
>> >> >preamble,
>> >> >and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for
>> >> >safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of
>> >> >Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.
>>
>> >> >*Article 3.*
>>
>> >> >The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local
>> >> >autonomy.
>>
>> >> >*Article 4.*
>>
>> >> >An appropriate Jewish agency shall be recognized as a public body for
>> >> >the purpose of advising and cooperating with the Administration of
>> >> >Palestine in such economic, social and other matters as may affect the
>> >> >establishment of the Jewish national home and the interests of the
>> >> >Jewish population in Palestine, and, subject always to the control of
>> >> >the Administration, to assist and take part in the development of the
>> >> >country.
>>
>> >> >The Zionist Organization, so long as its organization and constitution
>> >> >are in the opinion of the Mandatory appropriate shall be recognized as
>> >> >such agency. It shall take steps in consultation with His Britannic
>> >> >Majesty's Government to secure the cooperation of all Jews who are
>> >> >willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.
>>
>> >> >*Article 5.*
>>
>> >> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine
>> >> >territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the
>> >> >control of, the Government of any foreign Power.
>>
>> >> >*Article 6.*
>>
>> >> >The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and
>> >> >position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall
>> >> >facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall
>> >> >encourage, in co-operation with the Jewish agency referred to in
>> >> >Article
>> >> >4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and
>> >> >waste
>> >> >lands not required for public purposes.
>>
>> >> >*Article 7*.
>>
>> >> >The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a
>> >> >nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed
>> >> >so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews
>> >> >who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.
>>
>> >> >*Article 8.*
>>
>> >> >The privileges and immunities of foreigners, including the benefits of
>> >> >consular jurisdiction and protection as formerly enjoyed by
>> >> >Capitulation
>> >> >or usage in the Ottoman Empire, shall not be applicable in Palestine.
>>
>> >> >Unless the Powers whose nationals enjoyed the aforementioned
>> >> >privileges
>> >> >and immunities on August 1st, 1914, shall have previously renounced
>> >> >the
>> >> >right to their re-establishment, or shall have agreed to their
>> >> >non-application for a specified period, these privileges and
>> >> >immunities
>> >> >shall, at the expiration of the mandate, be immediately re-established
>> >> >in their entirety or with such modifications as may have been agreed
>> >> >upon between the Powers concerned.
>>
>> >> >*Article 9.*
>>
>> >> >The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that the judicial system
>> >> >established in Palestine shall assure to foreigners, as well as to
>> >> >natives, a complete guarantee of their rights.
>>
>> >> >Respect for the personal status of the various peoples and communities
>> >> >and for their religious interests shall be fully guaranteed. In
>> >> >particular, the control and administration of Waqfs shall be exercised
>> >> >in accordance with religious law and the dispositions of the founders.
>>
>> >> >*Article 10.*
>>
>> >> >Pending the making of special extradition agreements relating to
>> >> >Palestine, the extradition treaties in force
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more »


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:23 EDT 2008
Article: 1952856 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:35:17 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 7:44 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 14:32:06 -0700 (PDT), Ariadne
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On 19 Oct, 21:45, Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>
>> >> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away.
>>
>> >The UN didn't exist when the Ottoman
>> >Empire lost the land in WWI.
>>
>> >> The Arabs had every
>> >> right to resist
>>
>> >Nonsense.  Britain had the stewardship
>> >of the land.
>>
>> Britain was for centuries the world's foremost thief. Britain had no
>> right to these lands and they certainly had no right to give them away
>> to their buddies and confederates.<
>
>It was the League of Nations that validated the Balfour Declaration
>and made it international law.

The League of Nations was a creature of the allies, and it existed to
push allied interests. Its statements and pontifications are
meaningless.

>
>> >  Britain should have created
>> >the Jewish national home there.<
>
>The Jewish National Home has ALWAYS been in the land we Jews called
>"The Land of Israel" or Eretz Yisrael in Hebrew. Others there were the
>occupiers.
>
>
>> Britain had the right to create a Jewish homeland in Britain, but they
>> had no right to create such a state on the land of others.<
>
>"Palestine" is Arab-occupied JEwish land. Britain had no right to
>create a Jewish state on British soil. But they did create an Arab
>state in Eastern Palestine (Gilead, Bashan, Moab and Edom) called
>"Transjordan" or today Jordan.
>
>> All of
>> Britain's nation-building adventures have ended in disaster. Britain's
>> artificial state of Czechoslovakia and Versailles-Poland were a major
>> cause of WW2. The Versailles-state of Yugoslavia was also an
>> unmitigated disaster that led to huge losses of life.<
>
>The Czechs and Slovaks have parted ways peacefully, and today there is
>the Czech Republic and Slovakia.
>>
>> >Arabs sold land at exorbitant prices to
>> >Jews and those Arab sellers should have
>> >taken care of the itinerant labour working
>> >the land.
>> >Strange that the Arabs did not blame the
>> >effendi class.
>>
>> >Strange that you don't.<<
>
>> >If you Google "jgarbuz" and "League of
>> >Nations" in Google Groups you too can
>> >become well-informed.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:23 EDT 2008
Article: 1952857 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:45:24 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 7:48 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:27:51 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 19, 4:45 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>
>> >> >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.
>>
>> >> >The Arabs are guilty of having launched a war of extermination
>> >> >(their terminology by the way) against Israel,  which was founded
>> >> >fair and square according to a UN vote. THAT is the root of the
>> >> >problem.
>>
>> >> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away. The Arabs had every
>> >> right to resist people intending to murder and displace them.<
>>
>> >There was no intent to murder anybody. The Jewish  settlers were given
>> >the right to settle empty lands,
>>
>> The lands were not empty.<
>
>Oh, lots of it was. When Zionist immigration began in the 1880s, the
>entire country had perhaps 350,000. Today, 5.4 million Jews, and 5.2
>million non-Jews, mostly Arabs, live in the same territory.

That doesn't imply that the territory was empty, and more than the
lands inhabited today by the rapacious and criminal USA were empty
when the invaders arrived in the "New World". The fact that today's
USA has a significantly larger population than the Americas had in
1550 is totally irrelevant. The USA is the product of the genocide of
the indigenous people, and Israel is just another disgusting
settler-state in the same pattern.

>
> > had the intention from
>> the start to erect a "Jewish state".<
>
>Different Zionist groups had different ideas. Many were socialists who
>hoped that  a socialist state with no national distinctions would
>emerge. But that was a pipe-dream.
>The idea of a binational state was also bandied about. That too was a
>pipedream. The fact is, the Arabs had no intention of allowing Jews to
>have any autonomy whatsoever on what THEY considered Islamic Arab
>land. Hamas continues in that tradition. In in 1947 they rejected
>Partition into two states, and went to full out war to destroy the
>JEwish part.
>They elected war and violence over compromise at every turn.
>
>> A Jewish state is one in which
>> Jews have a monopoly on the use of force. <
>
>A Jewish state is a state where the JEwish nation is restored within
>the territory of the ancient Jewish people, and whose culture and
>population is primarily a JEwish nationalist one.
>
>>We allow all manner of
>> immigrants to Ontario, <
>
>Who is "we?" The Indians? Who are the "we" you are referring to? BTW,
>Israel is 25% non-Jewish, including Muslim and Christian Arabs,
>Armenians, druze, and many other minority groups.Even Vietnamese "boat
>people."
>
>>
>for example, but if any of these wanted to
>> erect a "state" dedicated to ethnicity "X", it would be quite
>> legitimate to oppose them by every means possible.<
>
>You mean you are opposed to a German state? Or an Irish state? Or a
>Swedish state?
>Or a Danish state? Or an Arab state? How about a French state in
>Quebec?
>
>> > wastelands, and former Sultan's state
>> >lands, and to buy land from Arab landowners to use for settlement. ANd
>> >that is  exactly what the Jews did up until November 1947. Not one
>> >inch of land was stolen from an Arab landowner. But then the Arabs
>> >rejected the UN Partition Plan and went to all out war against the new
>> >UN-authorized State of Israel, and that caused the two refugee
>> >situations to happen. EVery war causes refugees. I myself am one.
>>
>> >> >And oh,  700,000 Jews left the Arab nations,  leaving behind
>> >> >everything they had.  However,  as opposed to the Palestinians,
>> >> >they have built themselves a new life,  and did not sit on their
>> >> >ass and whine for sixty years.<<<<
>
>
>Actually, it was 850,000 - 900,000 Jews who were forced out of the
>Muslim countries after 1948.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1952858 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:52 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
 wrote:

>In article <9u2pf45um51t3o5lmf2g4k38lpqms2hhou@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:07:03 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>  wrote:
>
>>> They were not "invaders" by any legal or moral sense.  They
>>> legally immigrated to a British colony.  The Arabs -- who
>>> were also immigrants,  by the way -- refused to accept this
>>> fact,  and the fact that the UN decided to establish the
>>> state of Israel,  and they commenced a war against Israel,
>>> with the declared intent of annihilating it.  Well, they lost.
>>>
>>> What do you find so difficult to understand?
>
>> They were not "legitimate" immigrants. They went there with the
>> express purpose of setting up a Jewish state and murdering or
>> dispossessing the indigenous population.
>
>No,  that was not their goal.  And had the Arabs accepted the UN
>plan,  they would all have lived happily ever after.  Case closed.

No, had the Arabs "settled" for the UN plan, they would have lost more
than half of their historic lands. Nobody would agree to such an
outrage unless there was absolutely no alternative. That is exactly
the scenario that insane murderous thugs like the late Menachem Begin,
may he burn in hell, tried to accomplish with massacres and the
fomenting of panic.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1952861 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 09:52:11 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 20, 7:51 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >In article ,
>> >Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> >> On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >>> The Arabs are guilty of having launched a war of extermination
>> >>> (their terminology by the way) against Israel,  which was founded
>> >>> fair and square according to a UN vote. THAT is the root of the
>> >>> problem.
>>
>> >> The land didn't belong to the UN to give away.
>>
>> >It sure like hell didn't belong to the Arabs.  It was occupied
>> >by the British.
>>
>> >> The Arabs had every
>> >> right to resist people intending to murder and displace them.
>>
>> >You're terribly confused.  The Arabs started the 1948 war with the intent
>> >of exterminating the Israelis.
>>
>> The Jewish invaders had no business being there in the first place.<
>
>You mean the Arabs had no business being there in the first place. Nor
>the Romans or Greeks, or Samaritans who were actually people that the
>Assyrians had imported from what we today call Kurdistan.

Ancient Israel was a flash-in-the-pan historically and of no
particular significance.

>
>> The intent to erect a "state" on the land of somebody else is in
>> itself an act of war,<
>
>The League of Nations and the United Nations said it was okay.

The League of Nations was an instrument of allied policy and its
statements can be rejected as utter horse shit.

>
>> so the Jews started the conflict decades earlier
>> through their obvious intention of setting up a Jewish state, a
>> jurisdication in which Jews had a monopoly on violence. It would be
>> unreasonable to expect the indigenous population to simply permit
>> this.<
>
>First of all, it is a myth to say that all the ARabs are "indigenous."

Even Jewish scriptural myths don't say that Jews were indigenous. Jews
were already invaders then, and now they have displaced a second group
of people for their own selfish ends.

>Even the Canaanites didn't arrive there till 3000 BC. The American
>native "Indians" and the "Aboriginals" of Australia are truly
>indigenous as their presence in those countries goes back tens of
>thousands of years, and they are the descendants of the truly original
>inhabitants. So neither Arabs nor Jews are indigenous. However, the
>Jews are the only ones who had independent states in that little land:
>the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah.

Lots of people had "independent" states in the past. The Jewish states
in the Middle East vanished almost three thousand years ago. It means
nothing today. Israel was created by force and it will vanish the same
way.

>And Jerusalem was only the capital of a Jewish state, never of any
>Arab state.

Jerusalem already existed before Jews were in that area, so Jerusalem
is just another Jewish theft from an earlier people.

>There never was an Arab state in Palestine, as the Romans
>renamed the country.

There hasn't been a Jewish state in over three thousand years, and
even the details of that one are pretty sketchy and clouded over with
religious myths.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1952863 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haider was going 88 MPH
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:44:52 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <753pf4dric9c22jte75hc6chkhb8i4vhp8@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:08:14 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:08:16 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>>>  wrote:
>
>>>>> Do you know that the Phaeton is not so equipped?
>
>>>> The manufacturer says no, 
>
>>> Citation,  please.
>
>> Phone your local dealer and ask. 
>
>You made the claim,  you supply the proof.
>
>> It isn't my job to run errands for
>> some demented homophobic bigot such as yourself.
>
>"demented homophobic bigot"?  It's your buddy "Cramer" who
>wants to kill gays:

Your bunch has made liberal use of that kind of rhetoric yourselves,
so you are being a hypocrite as well as a bigot. One of the reasons
that I totally reject Judaism is its morally bankrupt homophobic
bigotry. Judaism is a silly superstition with very few redeeming
qualities. Judaism is probably the world's most vicious religion where
the blood of sacrifices used to be thrown against the altar. Modern
Islam came by its more extremist elements by being rooted in Judaism.

>
>"Poofters should be fucked and burned." -- Ben Cramer,  Message-ID
><42942e83$0$247$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1952864 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Deborah Lipstadt moment:
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:45:52 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> All the Canadian school texts in use before Canada adopted SI units
>> gave a ton as being 2,000 lb.
>
>"Cramer" is Australian.

Australia, like Canada, is a former British colonial possession, so
what is your point?

Australians, like Canadians, write colour, honour, and favour rather
than the American patois.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1952868 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:00:55 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Indeed, the Pope has immensely more prestige and credibility than some
>> silly superstitious rabbi.
>
>Why is the Pope any less "superstitious" than a Rabbi?

All human religions are essentially superstition, but some more than
others. Judaism is a tribal religion with a focus on one ethnic group,
while Catholicism is a universal religion with some benefit for all
humanity. 
>
>And why did your beloved Nazis murder so many priests?

That is largely conjecture.  Besides, wasn't it you that argued that
"legal" executions are not murder? The only priests/pastors who were
excuted were people involved in anti-government activities. Their
religious affiliation was irrelevant to the criminal charges they
faced.

Incidentally, the political notions of the NSDAP are not ones to which
I would personally subscribe, but then I also reject your ideas of
anything-goes, tendentious nonsense history as long as it is
anti-fascist. You seem to follow Soviet notions of history where
history is "bunk designed to deceive the masses and serve the
interests of the people in power". I believe in scientific history
that is backed by solid physical evidence, not mountains of pathetic
paper coerced from people facing liquidation.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1952870 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: KEN MCVAY PERFECT EXAMPLE OF BTAINWASHED OR PROPAGANDIST.
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:46:46 GMT, "Princeandy" 
wrote:

>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:P7-dnUQuAeT0IWHVnZ2dnUVZ_sPinZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> Princeandy  wrote:
>>>
>>>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>>>news:AsCdnaTvr-C61GHVnZ2dnUVZ_q7inZ2d@vex.net...
>>>> In article ,
>>>> Poor, Dumb Princeandy  wrote:
>>>>>THIS IS WHY THEY WONT ALLOW WITNESSES TO SPEAK OR ANYONE TO EXAMINE THE 
>>>>>bs
>>>>>THEY ARE BASING ALL THE REPARATIONS ON.
>
>Ken your stiupidity is extreme - if you cannot work out these references i 
>suggest you spend a little time in the library boning up on your english.. 
>/if you come here defending the law and court actions in applying that law, 
>yet dont know that is what you are doing please go and talk to an english 
>teacher and a shrink.
>
>
>>>>
>>>> Who is "they," poor, dumb Andy?
>
>Poor stupid ken, what did they give you that obc for?sucking up? They as you 
>know are the people you are defending as far as i am aware. if you're giving 
>up just say so dont play dumb. you are stupid enough on the subject you have 
>chosen to defend in any case.
>
>>>>
>>>> When will you divulge this, er, "Jewish version" of the Holocaust you
>>>> claim exists?
>
>Again seeing you were the idiot who came in name calling and quoting great 
>knowledge through your tame experts i expect you to know what you are 
>defending. seeing you want to now claim you dont i understand, if it is to 
>hot in the kitshen get out chicken.
>>>>
>>>> Poor, dumb Andy.
>
>Your absolute stupity noted Ken. All you can do is keep calling names .

Kenny does that passably well, but it seems to be the only thing he
does competently.  LOL
 
>Sorry to so beat you but you really ought to work out what exactly you stand 
>for. Next for christs sake get a brain and a knowledge of english so you 
>wont be sitting there asking dumb questions like what are we discussing, the 
>jewish holocaust claims, what are they
>
>what an f--g dickhead sits in a completely stupid mess calling everyone else 
>dumd, what a clown.
>>>
>>>What an idiot,  dumb, this guy cannot work out from discussions so far 
>>>that
>>>the jewish version is what he is trying to sell. He cannot work out who 
>>>they
>>>are who are causing the imprisoning of anyone investigating the holocaust
>>>claims.
>>
>> Poor, dumb, cowardly Andy. Still won't define this "Jewish version" which 
>> he claims exists.
>
>Absolutely stupid Ken do not become involved in a disciussion on a subject 
>which you aparently claim to know nothing about, but cannot work it out from 
>material provided.
>
>go check your library halfwit, the reparations , the commitee that allots 
>and goes court over these reparations records are there.
>
>If you cannot follow them dont come here annoying people with your stupidity 
>and lack or knowledge.
>>
>> Looks like poor, dumb, cowardly Andy's just one more piece of racist
>> gutter trash.
>
>Poor stupid Ken, no rebuttals, cannot keep up with the material being 
>discussed, just knows name calling.
>
>>
>> http://www.nizkor.org
>>
>> -- 
>>   "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED."
>
>I AM AWARE THAT THE COURTS TOOK A LINE THAT THE FACTS OF THE JEWISH 
>HOLOCAUST CLAIMS WERE AN INARGUABLE FACT
>IN OTHER WORDS THE LINE THE COURT/S TAKE IS THAT THE HOLOCAUST AS STATED BY 
>THE JEWS WERE AN INCONTROVERTIBLE FACT.
>UNDER THAT DOCTRINE IF THE JEWS STOLE YOUE CAR AND YOU COMPLAINED ABOUT IT, 
>YOU WOULD BE UNDER THA SAME CHARGES AS THE COURTS PREFER TO BELIEVE THAT THE 
>JEWISH STATEMENTS ARE SANCROSANCT AND A CLAIM THAT THEY HAD SROLEN YOUR CAR, 
>EVEN IF THEY HAD, WAS A RACIST STATEMENT AS IN THE COURTS VIEW THE THE 
>JEWISH STATEMENTS WERE UNQUESTIONABLE FACT, AND WOULD NOT ALLOW QUESTIONING 
>OF WITNESSES TO ESTABLISH WHETHER IN FACT THEY WERE TELLING THE TRUTH.
>IN FACT THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE CHARGE AS SOON AS YOU RAISED THE ISSUE OF 
>THE JEWISH PERSON/S LYING AS THIS WOULD BE ATTACKING WHAT THE COURT HAS SET 
>UP AS INCONTROVERTIBLE FACT THAT CANNOT BE QUESTIONED.
>SO THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN BACKING FOR 20 YEARS STUPID.
>WHICH IS ARBITRARY RESTRICTION OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND DISCRIMINATION 
>AGAINST NON JEWS BECAUSE OF TJIS SPECIAL POSITION THE COURTS HAVE DECIDED TO 
>GIVE JEWISH PERSONS RE THEIR HOLOCAUST CLAIMS..
>THAT THE EVIDENCE MUST BE ACCEPTED AS A FACT AND ANY EVIDENCE SHOWING THE 
>CLAIMS ARE FALSE AND NOT SUPPORTED BY FACT ARE NOT ALLOWED AS IS EASILY SEEN 
>IF YOU EXAMINE THE COURT RECORDS.
>
>http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.01
>>   "ALL FACTS IN THE COMPLAINT AND ADMISSIONS ARE DEEMED ADMITTED."
>> http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/b/bradbury.scott/Edeiken-v-Bradbury-A1.02
>
>> "Topaz"  wrote in message
>> news:g1md44tuv307jmpjfc0l3l9lmbdrf4m1td@4ax.com...
>>> By Faurisson
>>>
>>> The Unraveling of the Witnesses at the First Zündel Trial (1985)
>>>
>>> The important victory won by revisionism in France on April 26, 1983,
>>> would go on to confirm itself in 1985 with the first Zündel trial in
>>> Toronto. I would like to dwell a moment on this trial in order to
>>> underscore the impact on one's point of view, and especially as far as
>>> the testimonies on the Auschwitz gas chambers are concerned: for the
>>> first time since the war, Jewish witnesses were subjected to a regular
>>> cross-examination. Moreover, without wanting to minimize the
>>> importance of the second Zündel trial (that of 1988), I should like it
>>> to be understood that the 1985 trial already contained the seeds for
>>> all that was attained in the 1988 trial, including the report by
>>> Leuchter and all the scientific reports which, in the aftermath, would
>>> proliferate in the wake of the Leuchter Report.
>>>
>>> In 1985, as also afterwards in 1988, I served as advisor to Ernst
>>> Zündel and his lawyer, Douglas Christie. I accepted this heavy
>>> responsibility only under condition that all the Jewish witnesses
>>> would, for the first time, be cross-examined on the material nature of
>>> the reported facts, bluntly and without discretion. I had noted, in
>>> effect, that from 1945 to 1985, Jewish witnesses had been granted
>>> virtual immunity. Never had any defense lawyer thought or dared to ask
>>> them for material explanations about the gas chambers (exact location,
>>> physical appearance, dimensions, internal and external structure), or
>>> about the homicidal gassing (the operational procedure from beginning
>>> to end, the tools employed, the precautions taken by the executioners
>>> before, during and after execution).
>>>
>>> On rare occasions, as at the trial of Tesch, Drosihn and
>>> Weinbacher,[5] lawyers formulated some unusual questions of a material
>>> nature, hardly troublesome for the witness, but these always found
>>> themselves on the fringes of the more fundamental questions which
>>> should have been asked. No lawyer ever demanded clarifications on a
>>> weapon which, indeed, he had never seen and that no one had ever shown
>>> him. At the major Nuremberg Trial of 1945-46, the German lawyers had
>>> manifested total discretion on this point. At the proceedings against
>>> Eichmann in Jerusalem in 1961, the lawyer Dr. Robert Servatius had not
>>> wanted to raise the question; in a letter on this subject dated June
>>> 21, 1974, he wrote me: "Eichmann hat selbst keine Gaskammer gesehen;
>>> die Frage wurde nicht diskutiert; er hat sich aber auch nicht gegen
>>> deren Existenz gewandt" [Eichmann himself had not seen any gas
>>> chamber; the question was not discussed; but neither did he raise the
>>> issue of their existence].[6]
>>>
>>> At the Frankfurt Trial of 1963-65, the lawyers showed themselves to be
>>> particularly timid. I should mention that the atmosphere was rather
>>> inhospitable for the defense and the accused. This show trial will
>>> remain as a blot on the honor of German justice as on the person of
>>> Hans Hofmeyer, initially Landgerichtsdirektor, then Senatspräsident.
>>> During more than 180 sessions, the judges and juries, the public
>>> prosecutors and the private parties, the accused and their attorneys,
>>> as well as the journalists who had come from around the world,
>>> accepted as a complete physical representation of the 'crime weapon' a
>>> mere map of the camp of Auschwitz and a map of the camp of Birkenau,
>>> whereupon five minuscule geometric figures were inscribed for the
>>> location of each of the alleged homicidal gas chambers, with the
>>> words, for Auschwitz: "Altes Krematorium", and for Birkenau:
>>> "Krematorium II", "Krematorium III", "Krematorium IV", and
>>> "Krematorium V"! These maps[7] were displayed in the courtroom.
>>>
>>> The Revisionists have often compared the Frankfurt trial with the
>>> 1450-1650 trials against witchcraft. Nevertheless, at least during
>>> those trials, someone sometimes bothered to describe or depict the
>>> witches' sabbath. At the Frankfurt trial, even among the lawyers who
>>> made difficulties for a witness like Filip Müller, not one asked of a
>>> Jewish witness or a repentant German defendant to describe for him in
>>> greater detail what he was purported to have seen. Despite two
>>> judicial visits to the scene of the crime at Auschwitz, accompanied by
>>> some German lawyers, it seems not one of the latter insisted on any
>>> technical explanations or criminological expertise regarding the
>>> murder weapon. To the contrary, one of them, Anton Reiners, a
>>> Frankfurt lawyer, pushed complacency to the point of having himself
>>> photographed by the press while raising the chute cover by which the
>>> SS supposedly sprinkled Zyklon B granules into the alleged Auschwitz
>>> gas chamber.
>>>
>>> And so at Toronto in 1985, I had fully decided to do away with these
>>> anomalies, to break the taboo and, for starters, pose, or rather have
>>> Douglas Christie pose, questions to the experts and Jewish witnesses
>>> as one normally poses in every trial where one is supposed to
>>> establish whether a crime has been committed and, if so, by whom, how
>>> and when.
>>>
>>> Fortunately for me, Ernst Zündel accepted my conditions and Douglas
>>> Christie consented to adopt this course of action and to pose to the
>>> experts and witnesses the questions that I would prepare for him. I
>>> was convinced that, in this manner, all might change, and the veil
>>> woven by so many false testimonies could be torn away. While I was not
>>> counting on Ernst Zündel's acquittal and we were all resigned to
>>> paying the price for our audacity, I nevertheless had hope that with
>>> the aid of this far-sighted man of character, and thanks to his
>>> intrepid lawyer, history, if not justice, would at last carry him into
>>> historical prominence.
>>>
>>> From the moment of the first cross-examination, a tremor of panic
>>> began to creep its way amid the ranks of the prosecution. Every
>>> evening and throughout most of the night, I would prepare the
>>> questions to ask. In the morning, I would turn over these questions,
>>> accompanied by the necessary documents, to lawyer Doug Christie who,
>>> for his part and with the aid of his female collaborator, conducted
>>> the essentially legal aspects of the effort. During the
>>> cross-examinations, I maintained a position close to the lawyer's
>>> podium and unremittingly furnished, on yellow notepads, supplementary
>>> and improvisational questions according to the experts' and witnesses'
>>> responses.
>>>
>>> The expert cited by the prosecution was Dr. Raul Hilberg, author of
>>> The Destruction of European Jews. Day after day, he was subjected to
>>> such humiliation that, when solicited in 1988 by a new prosecutor for
>>> a new trial against Ernst Zündel, Prof. Hilberg refused to return to
>>> give witness; he explained the motive for his refusal in a
>>> confidential letter wherein he acknowledged his fear of having to once
>>> again confront the questions of Douglas Christie. From the
>>> cross-examination of Dr. Raul Hilberg, it was definitively brought out
>>> that no one possessed any proof for the existence either of an order,
>>> a plan, an instruction, or a budget for the presumed physical
>>> extermination of the Jews. Furthermore, no one possessed either an
>>> expertise of the murder weapon (whether gas chamber or gas van), or an
>>> autopsy report establishing the murder of a detainee by poison gas.
>>> However, in the absence of evidence regarding the weapon and victim,
>>> did there exist witnesses of the crime?
>>>
>>> A testimony must always be verified. The usual first means of
>>> proceeding to this verification is to confront the assertions of the
>>> witness with the results of investigations or expert opinion regarding
>>> the material nature of the crime. In the case at hand, there were
>>> neither investigations, nor expertise relative to the alleged
>>> Auschwitz gas chambers. Here is what made any cross-examination
>>> difficult. Yet, this difficulty should not serve as an excuse, and one
>>> might even say that a cross-examination becomes ever more
>>> indispensable because, without it, there no longer remains any way of
>>> knowing whether the witness is telling the truth or not.
>>>
>>> Jewish Witnesses Finally Cross-Examined:
>>> Arnold Friedman and Dr. Rudolf Vrba
>>>
>>> For those persons interested in the technical and documentary means by
>>>which we were nevertheless in a position to severely cross-examine the
>>> two principal Jewish witnesses, Arnold Friedman and Dr. Rudolf Vrba, I
>>> can do no better than to recommend a reading of the trial
>>> transcript.[8] Pages 304-371 cover the questioning and
>>> cross-examination of Arnold Friedman; the latter breaks down on pages
>>> 445-446 when he ends by acknowledging that he in fact saw nothing,
>>> that he had spoken from hearsay because, according to him, he had met
>>> persons who were convincing; perhaps, he added, he would have adopted
>>> the position of Mr. Christie rather than that of these other persons
>>> if only Mr. Christie had been able to tell him back then what he was
>>> telling him now!
>>>
>>> Dr. Vrba was a witness of exceptional importance. One might even say
>>> about this trial in Toronto that the prosecution had found the means
>>> of recruiting 'Holocaust' expert number one in the person of Dr. Raul
>>> Hilberg, and witness number one in the person of Dr. Rudolf Vrba. The
>>> testimony of this latter gentleman had been one of the principal
>>> sources of the famous War Refugee Board Report on the German
>>> Extermination Camps - Auschwitz and Birkenau, published in November
>>> 1944 by the Executive Office of President Roosevelt. Dr. R. Vrba was
>>> also the author of I Cannot Forgive,[9] written in collaboration with
>>> Alan Bestic who, in his preface, declares with regard to him:
>>>
>>> "Indeed I would like to pay tribute to him for the immense trouble he
>>> took over every detail; for the meticulous, almost fanatical respect
>>> he revealed for accuracy." (p.2).
>>>
>>> ,Never perhaps, had a court of justice seen a witness express himself
>>> with more assurance on the Auschwitz gas chambers. Yet, by the end of
>>> the cross-examination, the situation had reversed itself to the point
>>> where Dr. R. Vrba was left with only one explanation for his errors
>>> and his lies: in his book he had, he confessed, resorted to "poetic
>>> license" or, as he was wont to say in Latin, to "licentia poetarum"!
>>>
>>> In the end, a bit of drama unfolded: Mr. Griffiths, the prosecutor who
>>> had himself solicited the presence of this witness numero uno and yet
>>> now apparently exasperated by Dr. Vrba's lies, fired off the following
>>> question:
>>>
>>> "You told Mr. Christie several times in discussing your book I Cannot
>>> Forgive that you used poetic license in writing that book. Have you
>>> used poetic license in your testimony?" (p. 1636).
>>>
>>> The false witness tried to parry the blow but prosecutor Griffiths hit
>>> him with a second question equally treacherous, this time concerning
>>> the number of gassing victims which Vrba had given; the witness
>>> responded with garrulous nonsense; Griffiths was getting ready to ask
>>> him a third and final question when suddenly, the matter was cut short
>>> and one heard the prosecutor say to the judge:
>>>
>>> "I have no further questions for Dr. Vrba" (p. 1643).
>>>
>>> Crestfallen, the witness left the dock. Dr. Vrba's initial
>>> questioning, cross-examination and final questioning filled 400 pages
>>> of transcripts (pp. 1244-1643). These pages could readily be used in
>>> an encyclopedia of law under a chapter on the detection of false
>>> witnesses.
>>>
>>> The Prosecution Gives up on Calling Witnesses
>>>
>>> Three years later, in 1988, during the second trial against Ernst
>>> Zündel, the public prosecutor deemed it prudent to abandon any
>>> recourse to witnesses. Canadian justice had apparently understood the
>>> lesson of the first trial: there were no credible witnesses to the
>>> existence and operation of the 'Nazi gas chambers'.
>>>
>>> Little by little, every other country in the world has learned this
>>> same lesson. At the trial of Klaus Barbie in France, in 1987, there
>>> was talk about the gas chambers of Auschwitz but no one produced any
>>> witnesses who could properly speak about them.[10] The attorney
>>> Jacques Vergès, courageous yet not foolhardy, preferred to avoid the
>>> subject. This was a stroke of luck for the Jewish lawyers who feared
>>> nothing so much as to see me appearing at the side of Mr. Vergès. If
>>> this gentleman had accepted my offer to counsel him, we in France
>>> might have been able to strike a tremendous blow against the myth of
>>> the gas chambers.
>>>
>>> All the while in France, during several revisionist trials, Jewish
>>> witnesses sometimes came to evoke the gas chambers but none of them
>>> testified before the court as to having seen one or having
>>> participated in a homicidal gassing by hauling bodies out of the 'gas
>>> chambers'.
>>>
>>> Today, gas chamber witnesses are making themselves extremely scarce
>>> and the Demjanjuk trial in Israel, which once again has revealed how
>>> much false testimony is involved in the matter, has contributed to the
>>> suppression. Several years ago, it happened that I was aggressively
>>> questioned at the rear of a law court by elderly Jews who presented
>>> themselves as "living witnesses to the gas chambers of Auschwitz",
>>> showing me their tattoos. It was necessary for me only to ask them to
>>> look me in the eyes and to describe for me a gas chamber that
>>> inevitably they retorted:
>>>
>>> "How could I do this? If I had seen a gas chamber with my own eyes I
>>> would not be here today to speak with you; I myself would have been
>>> gassed also."
>>>
>>> This brings us back, as one can see, to Simone Veil and her
>>> declaration of May 7, 1983, about which we already know what we should
>>> think.
>>>
>>> http://www.ihr.org/      http://www.natvan.com
>>>
>>> http://www.thebirdman.org     http://www.nsm88.com/
>>>
>>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html
>>
>>
>
>
>"Topaz"  wrote in message
>news:pklr449roj8r6c7ufl47es37l1bef7ahbe@4ax.com...
>
>>
>> "The orthodox holocaust story can not possibly be defended with
>> rational arguments because its absurdity is overwhelming. We are asked
>> to believe in the fata morgana of a vast slaughter in killing
>> factories which left no traces whatsoever - no documents, no bones, no
>> teeth, no ashes - nothing! We are further asked to believe that the
>> Allies, who had a large network of informers all over Europe and a spy
>> in the German leadership (Admiral Canaris, the head of the German
>> intelligence), did not become aware of this gigantic genocide until
>> the end of the war, for if they had known about the mass murder, they
>> would have acted to stop it. Finally, we are asked to believe that the
>> Jews in Poland, the epicentre of the holocaust, did not know anything
>> about the Auschwitz gas chambers as late as in August 1944, otherwise
>> the Jews from the Lodz ghetto would not have gone to Auschwitz
>> voluntarily - which is precisely what they did, as related by Raul
>> Hilberg in his standard work about the holocaust (Die Vernichtung der
>> europaeischen Juden, p. 543/544).
>>
>> As the Zionist-controlled system of the "Western democracies" is
>> woefully unable to counter the revisionists with arguments, it resorts
>> to censorship and brute force in order to silence the dangerous
>> heretics. And the Jews are gradually transforming the holocaust into a
>> religion. This is a very clever strategy, for as Robert Faurisson
>> aptly remarks, one cannot refute a religion with scientific arguments.
>> Thus, the holocaust museums and holocaust monuments spreading like
>> mushrooms all over America and Europe are really temples of the new
>> religion, whereas professional "holocaust survivors" such as Elie
>> Wiesel are the priests of the new religion. To prove this assertion,
>> we only have to quote Wiesel himself: "The Holocaust is a holy
>> mystery, the secret of which is limited to the circle of the
>> priesthood of survivors" (Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American
>> Life, 1999, p. 211, 212, retranslated from the German). Another high
>> priest of the holocaust cult, Simon Wiesenthal, goes even further:
>> "When each of us comes before the Six Million, we will be asked what
>> we did with our lives... I will say: I did not forget you" (Simon
>> Wiesenthal in Response, Vol. 20, Nr. 1).
>>
>> No critical questions about the holocaust are allowed because they are
>> a blasphemy: They cause immense distress to the eternal victims of
>> persecution, the Jews, and are an attempt to whitewash National
>> Socialism - the most evil ideology of all times which made the
>> holocaust possible! In today's Germany, it is even considered
>> inadmissible to compare the holocaust with the atrocities of communist
>> tyrants such as Stalin or Cambodian dictator Pol Pot because this is
>> regarded as a "relativisation" and "trivialization" of the worst crime
>> in history.
>>
>> French Zionist propagandist Claude Lanzmann, the producer of a long
>> and unspeakably dull film about the holocaust (the title of this film
>> is Shoa, the Hebrew word for "catastrophe", which is often used by
>> Jews as a synonym for "holocaust") makes no effort to conceal that the
>> holocaust cult is to replace Christianity:
>>
>> "If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then
>> Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who
>> went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the
>> cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human
>> suffering with which that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)
>> In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.
>> (...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,
>> Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)
>>
>> Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any
>> more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million. The
>> Zionist leadership cunningly exploits the holocaust to unite the
>> World's Jews by keeping them in a constant state of hysteria and
>> persecution mania, insinuating that only if the Jews stick together
>> will they be able to ban the threat of a new holocaust.
>>
>> It goes without saying that very few Non-Jews are willing to embrace
>> the murky holocaust religion. While the overwhelming majority of
>> people in the West still believe that the official holocaust version
>> is essentially true (even if they suspect that the figures might me
>> somewhat inflated), they are thoroughly fed up with the eternal
>> lamentation about Jewish victims and Jewish suffering. They simply
>> don't want to hear it any more. In Germany, opinion polls showed that
>> a vast majority of the population was against the planned holocaust
>> monument in Berlin (which not a single major party, not a single
>> leading politician and not a single big newspaper dared to oppose).
>> Privately, the politicians are probably as profoundly disgusted with
>> the endless holocaust litany as the rest of the population, but they
>> cannot possibly afford to let the revisionists win because this would
>> shatter the very foundations of the "democratic" system to which they
>> own their careers and their wealth...
>>
>> The ultimate weapon against Zionism and the state of Israel
>>
>> At the end of the year 2000, Israel is a besieged country, but from
>> the military point of view, it is still vastly superior to its
>> neighbours, and it enjoys the unconditional support of the United
>> States. Should any of the Islamic states grow strong enough to
>> seriously threaten Israel, it would most probably be attacked and
>> militarily annihilated by America. Russia is not likely to risk a
>> confrontation with the USA for the sake of the Palestinians. We can
>> certainly admire the bravery of the Palestinians resistance fighters
>> who are willing to sacrifice their lives to liberate their homeland
>> from the alien intruders, but realistically, they have no chance to
>> win. The Palestinians have stones and slings. The Israelis have
>> helicopters and tanks. You can't destroy helicopters and tanks with
>> stones and slings.
>>
>> When fighting one's enemy, one should always look for his weakest
>> spot. The weakest spot of Israel, its Achilles heel, is the holocaust
>> lie to which it owes its existence. The revisionists can give the
>> adversaries of Israel and international Zionism a terrible weapon. It
>> is quite true that many revisionists are by no means guided by
>> political considerations. Some of them - Carlo Mattogno is a good
>> example - are only motivated by intellectual curiosity: They want to
>> ascertain what really happened to the Jews during the Second World
>> War. But even if revisionism is not a political movement, its
>> political implications are tremendous. The revisionists are
>> endeavouring to find out the truth, and truth is the deadliest enemy
>> of Israel and international Jewry. Thus, the revisionists objectively
>> work against Israel and Zionism, even if subjectively their goals are
>> often purely scientific and devoid of any political ambition. This is,
>> of course, the reason why they are persecuted and their books burnt in
>> more and more countries.
>>
>> In view of the total Jewish media control and the ever-growing
>> anti-revisionist repression in many Western countries, it is very
>> difficult indeed to achieve a revisionist breakthrough. We
>> revisionists are facing an uphill struggle which can only partly be
>> explained by our total lack of financial resources. Fortunately the
>> internet, which the Jews are unable to censure, has greatly improved
>> our possibilities to make the results of our research known to the
>> World, but all the same, we should not cherish naive illusions: Not
>> every citizen of the Western world who is informed about the
>> revisionist arguments will automatically become revisionist and
>> anti-Zionist. The average person in the West - and particularly in
>> Germany - has been so thoroughly brainwashed that a sudden exposure to
>> the truth can provoke a nervous breakdown or stomach cramps. I have
>> repeatedly witnessed this myself. Other people would gladly accept the
>> truth about the holocaust, but as they know that even the slightest
>> suspicion of revisionism leads to social ostracism, economic ruin and
>> legal persecution, they understandably prefer not to get involved.
>> However, if we want to win the war against those whom one of my
>> Russian friends called "the enemies of God and mankind"..
>>
>> The logical consequence of all this is that those countries which are
>> authentically anti-Zionist and real friends of the oppressed
>> Palestinian people should make the breakthrough of holocaust
>> revisionism their foremost priority. A tank costs millions of dollars,
>> yet one soldier can destroy it with a single missile. The revisionists
>> can provide anti-Zionist freedom fighters with a weapon not even a
>> thousand missiles can destroy."
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/      http://www.natvan.com
>>
>> http://www.thebirdman.org     http://www.nsm88.com/
>>
>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html
>
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1952872 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Holocaust Revisionism? We have so much future good moments with Google!!!
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:22:05 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Now this is something new to me. Anyone who disagrees not with you 
>holohoaxers is a Nazi regardless of nationality. Can you really dictate all 
>mankind to trust you. Honesty has never been a Jewish domain.
>Kurt Knoll.

Their hysterical shrieks of "Nazi" are pretty much meaningless, and
signify only that you disagree with them in some point or another.

>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:gdj5g0$5gt$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>
>>> Don't worry, within not a long time, Faurisson will appear
>>> as the "Galileo" of the W.W.II hoax.
>>
>>   No,  he will always be regarded as a stupid,  crazy nazi bastard.
>>
>>   Or worse,  no one will even remember who he was.  Just like crazy
>> old Fred Leuchter vanished into oblivion.  Not even the deniers
>> mention him any more.
>>
>>   For every real Galileo,  there are ten thousand pathetic Galileo
>> wanna-bees.  Faurisson is one.  You are one.  But,  being Nazis,
>> you're worse than the rest.
>>
>> RJ. 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1952877 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Any citizen can be arrested for looking for the truth.
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On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 05:18:09 GMT, "Princeandy" 
wrote:

>And the position of the courts make it impossible to use either the trtuth 
>or supporting evidence that proves the claims a lie.

If a court takes "judicial notice" that the earth is flat, then even a
professional geologist wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of
beating a charge of "flat earth denier" since any evidence supporting
the accused case would be disallowed.

>
>
>
>
>http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
>
>A look at these healthy happy jews will make you wonder just a little more 
>about the hardship claims.
>
>http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/letters/2003oct_nbr01.htm
>
>This is a contribution to your inquiry about the label: "holocaust-denial". 
>First of all there was NO holocaust, other than those taking place in every 
>country that is at war.
>
>The incarceration of "enemies of the state" is a world-wide practice. The 
>primary question here is; what constitutes a holocaust? Camps, depravation, 
>imprisonment, harsh treatment, executions, hunger etc.?
>
>Those conditions exist in all camps, in all nations, under all regimes. 
>Remember Andersonville, Manzanar, the Gulags, the British camps in Africa, 
>the American death-camps in Germany, they all constitute a "holocaust" if 
>viewed through the lenses of Jewish "holocaust-sufferers".
>
>
>
>
>
>Read the Red Cross reports. Go to the Red Cross museum, headquarters
>  in your city and pick up the records. Anyway theres a few independent
>  witnesses.
>  http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
>
>There are other indications as well that the theory of mass destruction of 
>the Hungarian Jews is incorrect: the witnesses to this destruction 
>unanimously claim that during these alleged mass exterminations the limited 
>capacity of the Birkenau crematoria necessitated the excavation of enormous 
>pits, in which the bodies were burned. Dark clouds of smoke, they claim, 
>darkened the sky over Birkenau during this procedure. Fortunately (or 
>unfortunately, depending on one's perspective) the aerial reconnaissance 
>photographs taken by the Allies during this time prove that in the Birkenau 
>camp, which was not obscured by clouds of smoke when the pictures were 
>taken, there were neither open fires, nor giant pits, nor smoke activity on 
>any scale large or small, nor piles of dead bodies, nor great supplies of 
>firewood, nor anything else of the sort.[45] The Polish Historical Society 
>concludes that in light of this evidence the number of victims in Auschwitz 
>must be reduced by another 400,000 plus 74,000 (Polish Jews from the 
>liquidated ghetto Lodz, who are also claimed to have been gassed around this 
>time), leaving some 500,000 victims for Auschwitz.[46]
>
>Even allegedly probative documents of the Nuremberg Tribunal cannot change 
>this, since such documents are by no means always genuine, or true, and only 
>ever provide evidence for deportations which are not disputed here in the 
>first place - they never document an extermination. The reader is reminded 
>of the example of Dachau, the concentration camp where the IMT alleged that 
>hundreds of thousands were gassed, a claim which in the end turned out to be 
>nothing more substantial than an atrocity propaganda lie.[47] We shall come 
>across another case of dubious IMT documents in the discussion of the Soviet 
>Union.
>
>http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=2735
>
>http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htm
>
>Rassinier seems to wrap it up.
>  http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.html
>
>http://www.wakeupfro
>myourslumber.com/node/5406
>
>Jews will once again subject Robert Faurisson (aged 78) to a trial for 
>"holocaust denial." The French judicial police served Faurisson a summons 
>demanding that he appear in court this Thursday (24 Jan 08). Faurisson is 
>charged with attending the December 11, 2006 conference in Iran titled, 
>"Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision."
>
>This will be the fifteenth time that Jews have hauled Faurisson into court. 
>Jews have already frozen his bank account, while court officials have 
>repeatedly visited his home, threatening him and his wife with seizure of 
>their furniture to pay for financial "damages" caused by his "heretical" 
>remarks.
>
>Faurisson is arguably the most thorough of all examiners of the holo-hoax. 
>Ernst Zündel, Gemar Rudolph and others are in prison, but Jews consider 
>Faurisson enemy #1, because of the meticulousness of his work. And since the 
>holo-hoax cannot be defended with reason and science, Jews use oppressive 
>laws and prison sentences to protect it from rational criticism. In many 
>cases they use extreme violence, as you will see later in this post. 
>Fortunately the Goyim are too cowardly to resist Jewish terrorism.
>
>At the Iran conference, Faurisson said that for the past 32 years, he has 
>been waiting for someone to show him one of the chambers where Jews where 
>supposedly gassed during the holo-hoax.
>
>In July 2006, a Paris court convicted Faurisson of "holocaust denial" 
>because of remarks made by Faurisson on the Sahar 1 Iranian satellite 
>channel in February 2005. Faurisson was given a three-month suspended prison 
>term, and was also fined 7,500 euros.
>
>The former Prime Minister of France, Dominique de Villepin, said, "We [the 
>French people] are in a democracy. Everyone has the right to express his 
>views freely."
>
>Therefore all defamatory remarks against Muslims or Islam are protected as 
>"free speech."
>
>However, any questioning of the holo-hoax or Jewish atrocities is illegal.
>
>The Gayssot Act of 1990 - initiated by President Jaques Chirac -- prohibits 
>any questioning or examination of the holo-hoax.
>
>Faurisson's specialty is examining documents and manuscripts. In 1991 he was 
>fired from his university post for questioning the holo-hoax. He was charged 
>with violating the Gayssot Act, (Loi Gayssot) passed on 13 July 1990 that 
>makes it illegal in France to question the holo-hoax. The law was proposed 
>by the communist deputy Jean-Claude Gayssot, and is one of several European 
>laws that make it illegal to examine the holo-hoax.
>
>Its first article states that "any discrimination founded on the membership 
>or non-membership to an ethnic group, a nation, a race or a religion is 
>prohibited."
>
>Discrimination against Muslims, of course, is permissible.
>
>When Faurisson was terminated at the university, he appealed to the ICCPRHRC 
>(International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and Human Rights 
>Committee). This is a UN group that polices literature for any questioning 
>of the holo-hoax. (It is not to be confused with the more high-profile 
>Commission on Human Rights, a Charter-based mechanism, or its replacement, 
>the Human Rights Council, which of course is controlled by Jews.)
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.von-waldenburg.com/reviews.html
>
>A person who lived in Germany during the war.
>
>
>
>http://www.icrc.org/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/57JNX3
>
>Frederich Born  leader of the ICRC in Hungary and honored by the jews.
>
>Of course that strengthens the credibility of the  Yad Vashem  and who can 
>say anything about a man being honored and who probably deserved the hnor.
>
>Most of their purchases of
>relief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.
>Not only did large numbers of the three million or so European Jews
>avoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continued
>throughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.
>
>
>
>But they were living in the best part of Europe as far as food was 
>concerned. And the terrible reflects the difficulties of keeping people in 
>camps and all the terribles do not describe genocide, or even conditions as 
>bad as Israel today.
>
>And the fact that some leaders might have stretched the truth about what 
>they thought Hitler said or thought about killing of jews, there is no proof 
>of genocide as a policy and no treatment as there is in Israel today.  Of 
>attacking people with planes, helicopters, and tanks. As happens in Israel 
>on a daily basis.
>
>
>
>The Toben case today: 
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/17/germany-australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>And at the bottom see the person who profited from lies and is behind the 
>false story that is used to put our truth seeking teachers in jail.
>
>These teachers are no more than the plumber Joe's of the acadenic world 
>being illtreated because of part of out population who want to support the 
>lies because of the huge incomes derived from these lies.
>
>
>
>These sites below show up the huge lies and why.
>
>
>
>Libraries, brothels, swimming??IN AUSWICHTZ???
>
>http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4138523842550891901#0h53m09s
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dyBMuSYLGk
>
>
>
>Next we have the German records where no mention of killing of jews has been 
>found.In fact the documents like this month disprove the huge distortions 
>and exaggerations made by the jewish contingent.
>
>And as in the country today the numbers actually involved considering that 
>millions fought with and served Germany against what was jews against their 
>country of residence.
>
>http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/history/zionism/news.php?q=1196891581
>
>http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=888061
>
>http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/1966
>
> http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/130513
>
>
>
> http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/htmlall/section_second_world_war?OpenDocumenthttp://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/68zeb2?opendocumenthttp://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/6ayg86Report of the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activitiesduring the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.You will find thousands of jewish funded museums amd so calleduniversitiesthat supposedly have evidence , also the reports themselves havebeen contaminated by jewish academics and supporters continual injectionsthat the Red Cross did not see.The Red Cross is not political or historical so keptrecords of it's actions,and if astrocities occurred they recorded them just as they do today.And the only evidence offered by holocaust supporters is the usual suspectexaggerations from reparation seeking jews castigated by honest honest jewsfor this horrible use of what suffering there was during this period.Despite the suffering of the jews it was not as much as Europeans as a
>wholesuffered with over 5 million imprisoned, a much hight number than the realnumber of jews . And free for anyone to investigate without fear ofimprisonment.Not to mention the disrupted lives of Europeans when their homes and townsbecame the battlefields of WW2.To emphasize the determined efforts of the jews to stay in the limelight bypushing all other victims to the back while they bask in the limelight , ina lot of cases undeservedly so. http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Crosses/Crosses.htmlAs an example the  Polish who is the one country who had more (3 million -figures you can examine without fear of harassment) wanted to put up crossesfor victims , who were in there mostly for helping and supporting jews inPoland. Were castigated and criticised by jewish groups claiming theremembrances should only be for their victims, and not be over shadowed byChristian
>victims.http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Crosses/Crosses.htmlhttp://www.holocaustforgotten.com/poland.htmhttp://www.holocaustforgotten.com/All that comes out clearly, whatever the reason that the jews were held incamps, there was great co operation by the jews themselves, this forced themto find excuses for their behavior, and easiest was lying about thecruelties of the Germans that caused this co operation. Rather falls downwhen there is no gassing and if camps were simply holding camps.As their own leaders said.The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing offtheir uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139There is not a shred of evidence, for example, that "a gas chamber was in the process of being built at Dachau, but it was never completed." (See "The Second Leuchter Report" by American gas chamber expert Fred
>Leuchter in The Journal of Historical Review, Fall 1990.) There is likewise no proof that "mentally and physically handicapped people were killed" by gas at any of the four "institutions" Wiesenthal mentions. This US Army photo was taken at Dachau on April 30, 1945, one day after the camp's capture. It shows a GI standing in front of a door marked with a skull and crossbones and the words "Caution! Gas! Life danger! Do not open!" According to the official caption, "these chambers were used by Nazi guards for killing prisoners of the infamous Dachau concentration camp." In fact, this is a small disinfection gas chamber used for delousing clothes. It was never used to kill people. For several decades, this photo has been widely reproduced to help keep alive the notorious Dachau "gas chamber" myth. (US Army photo SC 206194.)Besides the condensation below you can exam the various reviews of the REDCROSS covering WW2 during the time of the jews claimed astrocities commitedby the
>Germans.Inmates ReleasedMore than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. Inaddition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences werereleased, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz hadactually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans havereleased inmates who "knew" what was happening there?Himmler Orders Death Rate Reducedhttp://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/21.htmlhttp://www.outlawjournalism.com/news/?p=5803http://www.rense.com/general69/factua.htmhttp://www.777healthproducts.com/07g.htmhttp://www.intellnet.org/resources/resistance/holocaust/04.htm http://www.icrc.ch/Web/Eng/siteeng0.nsf/iwpList418/359CC4EF8A1E5C72C1256B66005B2171A little hard to obtain a report that is not heavily influenced by jewishpressure to includE holocaust AS THEY WOULD LIKE ALL TO SEE IT..So you will notice that holocaust is not denied just  a quiet it was badetc.THE
JEWS
>AND THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS:A FACTUAL APPRAISAL BY THE RED CROSS.There is one survey of the Jewish question in Europe during World WarTwo and the conditions of Germany's concentration camps which isalmost unique in its honesty and objectivity, the three-volume Reportof the International Committee of the Red Cross on its Activitiesduring the Second World War, Geneva, 1948.This comprehensive account from an entirely neutral sourceincorporated and expanded the findings of two previous works:Documents sur l'activité du CICR en faveur des civils détenus dans lescamps de concentration en Allemagne 1939-1945 (Geneva, 1946), andInter Arma Caritas: the Work of the ICRC during the Second World War(Geneva, 1947). The team of authors, headed by Frédéric Siordet,explained in the opening pages of the Report that their object, in thetradition of the Red Cross, had been strict political neutrality, andherein lies its great value.The ICRC successfully applied the 1929 Geneva military convention
>inorder to gain access to civilian internees held in Central and WesternEurope by the Germany authorities. By contrast, the ICRC was unable togain any access to the Soviet Union, which had failed to ratify theConvention. The millions of civilian and military internees held inthe USSR, whose conditions were known to be by far the worst, werecompletely cut off from any international contact or supervision.The Red Cross Report is of value in that it first clarifies thelegitimate circumstances under which Jews were detained inconcentration camps, i.e. as enemy aliens. In describing the twocategories of civilian internees, the Report distinguishes the secondtype as "Civilians deported on administrative grounds (in German,"Schutzhäftlinge"), who were arrested for political or racial motivesbecause their presence was considered a danger to the State or theoccupation forces" (Vol. 111, p. 73). These persons, it continues,"were placed on the same footing as persons arrested or
imprisonedunder
>common law for security reasons." (P.74).The Report admits that the Germans were at first reluctant to permitsupervision by the Red Cross of people detained on grounds relating tosecurity, but by the latter part of 1942, the ICRC obtained importantconcessions from Germany. They were permitted to distribute foodparcels to major concentration camps in Germany from August 1942, and"from February 1943 onwards this concession was extended to all othercamps and prisons" (Vol. 111, p. 78). The ICRC soon establishedcontact with camp commandants and launched a food relief programmewhich continued to function until the last months of 1945, letters ofthanks for which came pouring in from Jewish internees.Red Cross Recipients Were JewsThe Report states that "As many as 9,000 parcels were packed daily.From the autumn of 1943 until May 1945, about 1,112,000 parcels with atotal weight of 4,500 tons were sent off to the concentration camps"(Vol. III, p. 80). In addition to food, these contained
>clothing andpharmaceutical supplies. "Parcels were sent to Dachau, Buchenwald,Sangerhausen, Sachsenhausen, Oranienburg, Flossenburg,Landsberg-am-Lech, Flöha, Ravensbrück, Hamburg-Neuengamme, Mauthausen,Theresienstadt, Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, to camps near Vienna and inCentral and Southern Germany. The principal recipients were Belgians,Dutch, French, Greeks, Italians, Norwegians, Poles and stateless Jews"(Vol. III, p. 83).In the course of the war, "The Committee was in a position to transferand distribute in the form of relief supplies over twenty millionSwiss francs collected by Jewish welfare organisations throughout theworld, in particular by the American Joint Distribution Committee ofNew York" (Vol. I, p. 644). This latter organisation was permitted bythe German Government to maintain offices in Berlin until the Americanentry into the war. The ICRC complained that obstruction of their vastrelief operation for Jewish internees came not from the Germans butfrom the tight Allied
>blockade of Europe. Most of their purchases ofrelief food were made in Rumania, Hungary and Slovakia.The ICRC had special praise for the liberal conditions which prevailedat Theresienstadt up to the time of their last visits there in April1945. This camp, "where there were about 40,000 Jews deported fromvarious countries was a relatively privileged ghetto" (Vol. III, p.75). According to the Report, "'The Committee's delegates were able tovisit the camp at Theresienstadt (Terezin) which was used exclusivelyfor Jews and was governed by special conditions. From informationgathered by the Committee, this camp had been started as an experimentby certain leaders of the Reich ... These men wished to give the Jewsthe means of setting up a communal life in a town under their ownadministration and possessing almost complete autonomy. . . twodelegates were able to visit the camp on April 6th, 1945. Theyconfirmed the favourable impression gained on the first visit" (Vol.I, p . 642).The ICRC
also
>had praise for the regime of Ion Antonescu of FascistRumania where the Committee was able to extend special relief to183,000 Rumanian Jews until the time of the Soviet occupation. The aidthen ceased, and the ICRC complained bitterly that it never succeeded"in sending anything whatsoever to Russia" (Vol. II, p. 62). The samesituation applied to many of the German camps after their "liberation"by the Russians. The ICRC received a voluminous flow of mail fromAuschwitz until the period of the Soviet occupation, when many of theinternees were evacuated westward. But the efforts of the Red Cross tosend relief to internees remaining at Auschwitz under Soviet controlwere futile. However, food parcels continued to be sent to formerAuschwitz inmates transferred west to such camps as Buchenwald andOranienburg.No Evidence Of GenocideOne of the most important aspects of the Red Cross Report is that itclarifies the true cause of those deaths that undoubtedly occurred inthe camps toward the end of
>the war. Says the Report: "In the chaoticcondition of Germany after the invasion during the final months of thewar, the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimedan increasing number of victims. Itself alarmed by this situation, theGerman Government at last informed the ICRC on February 1st, 1945 ...In March 1945, discussions between the President of the ICRC andGeneral of the S.S. Kaltenbrunner gave even more decisive results.Relief could henceforth be distributed by the ICRC, and one delegatewas authorised to stay in each camp ..." (Vol. III, p. 83).Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the diresituation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicitin stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Alliedbombing of German transportation, and in the interests of internedJews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarousaerial warfare of the Allies" (Inter Arma Caritas, p. 78). By October2nd, 1944, the ICRC
>warned the German Foreign Office of the impendingcollapse of the German transportation system, declaring thatstarvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becominginevitable.In dealing with this comprehensive, three-volume Report, it isimportant to stress that the delegates of the International Red Crossfound no evidence whatever at the camps in Axis occupied Europe of adeliberate policy to exterminate the Jews. In all its 1,600 pages theReport does not even mention such a thing as a gas chamber. It admitsthat Jews, like many other wartime nationalities, suffered rigours andprivations, but its complete silence on the subject of plannedextermination is ample refutation of the Six Million legend. Like theVatican representatives with whom they worked, the Red Cross founditself unable to indulge in the irresponsible charges of genocidewhich had become the order of the day. So far as the genuine mortalityrate is concerned, the Report points out that most of the Jewishdoctors
>from the camps were being used to combat typhus on the easternfront, so that they were unavailable when the typhus epidemics of 1945broke out in the camps (Vol. I, p. 204 ff) - Incidentally, it isfrequently claimed that mass executions were carried out in gaschambers cunningly disguised as shower facilities. Again the Reportmakes nonsense of this allegation. "Not only the washing places, butinstallations for baths, showers and laundry were inspected by thedelegates. They had often to take action to have fixtures made lessprimitive, and to get them repaired or enlarged" (Vol. III, p. 594).Not All Were InternedVolume III of the Red Cross Report, Chapter 3 (I. Jewish CivilianPopulation) deals with the "aid given to the Jewish section of thefree population," and this chapter makes it quite plain that by nomeans all of the European Jews were placed in internment camps, butremained, subject to certain restrictions, as part of the freecivilian population. This conflicts directly with the
>"thoroughness"of the supposed "extermination programme", and with the claim in theforged Höss memoirs that Eichmann was obsessed with seizing "everysingle Jew he could lay his hands on."In Slovakia, for example, where Eichmann's assistant Dieter Wislicenywas in charge, the Report states that "A large proportion of theJewish minority had permission to stay in the country, and at certainperiods Slovakia was looked upon as a comparative haven of refuge forJews, especially for those coming from Poland. Those who remained inSlovakia seem to have been in comparative safety until the end ofAugust 1944, when a rising against the German forces took place. Whileit is true that the law of May 15th, 1942 had brought about theinternment of several thousand Jews, these people were held in campswhere the conditions of food and lodging were tolerable, and where theinternees were allowed to do paid work on terms almost equal to thoseof the free labour market" (Vol. I, p. 646).Not only did large
>numbers of the three million or so European Jewsavoid internment altogether, but the emigration of Jews continuedthroughout the war, generally by way of Hungary, Rumania and Turkey.Ironically, post-war Jewish emigration from German-occupiedterritories was also facilitated by the Reich, as in the case of thePolish Jews who had escaped to France before its occupation. "The Jewsfrom Poland who, whilst in France, had obtained entrance permits tothe United States were held to be American citizens by the Germanoccupying authorities, who further agreed to recognize the validity ofabout three thousand passports issued to Jews by the consulates ofSouth American countries" (Vol. I, p. 645).As future U.S. citizens, these Jews were held at the Vittel camp insouthern France for American aliens. The emigration of European Jewsfrom Hungary in particular proceeded during the war unhindered by theGerman authorities. "Until March 1944," says the. Red Cross Report,"Jews who had the privilege of visas
>for Palestine were free to leaveHungary" (Vol. I, p. 648). Even after the replacement of the HorthyGovernment in 1944 (following its attempted armistice with the SovietUnion) with a government more dependent on German authority, theemigration of Jews continued.The Committee secured the pledges of both Britain and the UnitedStates "to give support by every means to the emigration of Jews fromHungary," and from the U.S. Government the ICRC received a messagestating that "The Government of the United States ... now specificallyrepeats its assurance that arrangements will be made by it for thecare of all Jews who in the present circumstances are allowed toleave" (Vol. I, p . 649).Biedermann agreed that in the nineteen instances that "Did Six MillionReally Die?" quoted from the Report of the International Committee ofthe Red Cross on its Activities during the Second World War and InterArma Caritas (this includes the above material), it did so accurately.A quote from Charles Biedermann (a
>delegate of the InternationalCommittee of the Red Cross and Director of the Red Cross'International Tracing Service) under oath at the Zündel Trial(February 9, 10, 11 and 12, 1988).http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2735http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/14645862&referer=brief_results ACTUALLY -- AND CONTRARY TO HIS HIGHLY FLATTERING PUBLIC IMAGE -- THE RENOWNED "NAZI HUNTER" HAS A WELL-DOCUMENTED BUT LITTLE-KNOWN RECORD OF DECEIT, MENDACITY AND PREVARICATION. SOME HIGHLIGHTS: Wiesenthal repeatedly lied about his alleged role in locating Adolf Eichmann, was consistently wrong about Josef Mengele, and falsely accused Polish-American Frank Walus of having murdered Jews in Poland as a Gestapo official. Wiesenthal has absurdly charged that the Germans exterminated Jews in "electrocution chambers," and that they manufactured bars of soap from the bodies of murdered Jews. His deception about his own wartime activities prompted Austrian Chancellor Bruno Kreisky (himself of Jewish
>ancestry) to accuse the "Nazi hunter" of having collaborated with his wartime oppressors. (For details about Wiesenthal's record, see: M. Weber, "Simon Wiesenthal: Bogus Nazi Hunter," The Journal of Historical Review, Winter 1989-90.) THE CANADIAN JEWISH NEWS, Jan. 30, 1992 Wannsee's importance rejected London (JTA) - An Israeli Holocaust scholar has debunked the Wannsee Conference, at which top Nazi officials are said to have gathered at a villa in a Berlin suburb in 1942 to draw the blueprints of the "Final Solution." According to Prof. Yehuda Bauer (photo) of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Wannsee was a meeting, "but hardly a conference", and "little of what was said there was executed in detail." "The public still repeats, time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the Jews was arrived at."     "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor  have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust."     "I have done my best to
>prepare the case that follows, but  I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an  expert on the Holocaust, my Lord."     "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have  said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written  no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually  because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned  about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise  and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."  http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm:     "Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton,  that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say  would be a figure without any value whatsoever."     "Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka,  Belzec and Chelmno?"     "A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert."  RJ.Winston Churchill wrote a five volume history of World War II and
>nevermentioned the holocaust. He never mentioned it because he knew that theholocaust was just wartime propaganda and he did not want to sully what hehoped would be the definitive history of the war with propaganda that commonsense alone could refute. I could go on but the evidence I speak of isavailable to The Jubilee readers from many patriotic sources even though itis still widely censored by America's media and libraries.I once considered the battle over the holocaust as a great political trumpcard allowing us to take back the moral high ground on the censorship issuefrom the left. But I see now that it is much more important than that. Theholocaust is qualitatively different than the silly lies nations tell theircitizens to get them so fired up they will send their children to die inforeign wars. The holocaust is not pre-war propaganda. It is post-warpropaganda.Why do we need post World War II propaganda? Because World War II was thegreatest human catastrophe in two thousand
>years for the Aryan peoples andwe "gentiles" must not be allowed to see the truth. It was more than theslaughter of our racial kinsmen and the destruction of our racial homeland.World War II was the most significant crossroads the Christian nations havefaced since Herman faced the legions of Rome in the forests of Teutonberg2,000 years ago. But Herman won the battle of Teutonberg Wald. The Christianworld lost World War II. We lost because we came to a crossroads and wentthe wrong way.http://www.nafcash.com/Lest you think there must be some truth to the alleged Treblinka holocaust NAFCASH TM is offering a $250,000.00 REWARD For locating JUST ONE of the alleged "HUGE MASS GRAVES" of Treblinka NAFCASH TM presents THE TREBLINKA CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION CHALLENGE TM You must scientifically - forensically prove the grave's EXACT location,its EXACT dimensions and its EXACT volumetric density. The cremated remains must total AT LEAST one percent of the alleged massmurder. JUST ONE MASS
>GRAVE! - JUST ONE PERCENT!http://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973 HOW TO KEEP ACADEMICS QUIET The Real Issue Is Israel's Human Rights Record: A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein upon publication of Beyond Chutzpah  Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard University is currently best known  for  his advocacy of the "most excruciating" torture against terrorist suspects  such as a "needle being shoved under the fingernails." The alleged purpose  of this torture is to extract a truthful confession but its real  consequence, as human rights organizations have pointed out, is to produce  whatever statements are necessary to end the suffering.For 15 months  Dershowitz has applied a variant of this truth-seeking technique -- less  physically painful but no less excruciating -- to prospective publishers  of  Beyond Chutzpah, which offers a critical examination of Israel's human  rights record and Dershowitz's defense of it. Enlisting one of the most  powerful law firms in the country after
>his personal initiatives proved  unsuccessful, Dershowitz has repeatedly threatened to bankrupt highly  respected publishers with litigation if they didn't cancel publication of  my  book. He could then proclaim that the cancellation confirmed the "truth"  that Beyond Chutzpah didn't meet scholarly standards.  Dershowitz justified these blackmail tactics on the ground that Beyond  Chutzpah libels him. Yet, when I first began to expose his gross scholarly  misconduct, Dershowitz publicly declared at UCLA (on 21 October 2003) that  he wouldn't respond with a libel action because he believed "so strongly  in  the First Amendment and full freedom of speech." Ironically, just as he  was  threatening my publishers with expensive and time-consuming lawsuits,  Dershowitz denounced Holocaust denier David Irving, who had sued Deborah  Lipstadt for libel, with these words: "Before Irving lost his case  [against  Lipstadt], several publishers had refused to issue books critical of  Irving,  out
>of fear of his bringing expensive and time-consuming lawsuits. That  was  a chilling of free speech" (Afterword to Lipstadt's History on Trial; his  emphasis).  My publisher, University of California Press, was understandably at great  pains to fend off a potential lawsuit by Dershowitz; for an academic  publisher the associated costs would have been ruinous, to the point of  making certain victory meaningless. On occasion our relationship became  strained and at one point it appeared as if we had reached an impasse.  However, through the skillful mediation of Nation magazine senior editor  Roane Carey (who was the freelance editor of Beyond Chutzpah) and others,  a  satisfactory compromise was reached that protected the interests of both  publisher and author, and, most importantly, preserved the integrity of  the  book. I would like personally to extend my heartfelt thanks to all who  supported me and the press during this difficult period."Another Frenchman, Paul Rassinier, a
>pre-war communist and later asocialist, had been a member of the French Resistance. He was arrested andinterned in concentration camps, among them Buchenwald. In 1948 he publisheda book Crossing the Line, in which he argued that people might have beenkilled in concentration camps, but that the perpetrators had acted on theirown, not on orders from headquarters.AS WITH ABU GRAIB."The saving of the Jews in Europe did not figure at the head of the list ofpriorities of the ruling class. It was the foundation of the State which wasprimordial in their eyes."http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/miscelleneous/the-founding-myths-of-israeli-politics/part3.htm "The masses of Jews from Hungary's ghettos obediently boarded thedeportation trains without knowing their fate. They were full of confidence in the false information that they were being transferred toKenyermeze. The Nazis could not have misled the masses of Jews so conclusively hadthey not spread their false information through Jewish
>channels. The Jews of the ghettos would not have trusted the Nazi or Hungarianrulers. But they had trust in their Jewish leaders. Eichmann and  othersused this known fact as part of their calculated plan to mislead  the Jews. They were able to deport the Jews to their extermination by the help  ofJewish leaders. The false information was spread by the Jewish leaders. The local  leadersof the Jews of Kluj and Nodvarod knew that other leaders were  spreadingsuch false information and did not protest. Those of the Jews who tried to warn their friends of the truth werepersecuted by the Jewish leaders in charge of the local 'rescue work'.The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few
>people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942 untilthe end of the war. That office never reported or recorded any atrocities (Several years agointernational Jewry forced the Red Cross to apologize to the Jews -apologize for not seeing something that never happened.)Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situationas far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating thatfood supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of Germantransportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested onMarch 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies" (InterArma Caritas, p. 78). By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the GermanForeign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportationsystem, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germanywere becoming inevitable.A Jewish woman named Marika Frank arrived at Auschwitz-Birkenau from Hungaryin
July
>1944, when 25,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated daily.She likewise testified after the war that she heard and saw nothing of "gaschambers" during the time she was interned there. She heard the gassingstories only later. [15]Inmates ReleasedMore than 200,000 prisoners were transferred from Auschwitz to other camps,and about 8,000 were in the camp when it was liberated by Soviet forces. Inaddition, about 1,500 prisoners who had served their sentences werereleased, and returned to their home countries. [16] If Auschwitz hadactually been a top secret extermination center, would the Germans havereleased inmates who "knew" what was happening there?Himmler Orders Death Rate Reduced  http://www.ifamericansknew.org/http://www.ussliberty.org/"Asgard"  wrote in messagenews:zZadnTJAIc9c0_DYnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@giganews.com...Ø      What a load of emotive old bollocks, bullshit and lies.>> The narrator states the inmates were "starving' at Bergen Belsen, yet the> vast
>majority of the inmates look positively fat and shiny.>> He goes on to say those dead, had died of starvation, yet earlier stated> they'd not eaten for only 6 days.>> The images of the dead showed mainly emaciated corpses, nothing like the> people still moving around. If they'd died of "starvation", why had the> vasst majority of the inmates not suffered the same fate. Why, indeed wasit> only the corpses which were emaciated.>> What I found particularly intersting, was significant incidence ofpetachiae> on the bodies of the dead. THIS IS A CLASSIC SIGN OF EPIDEMIC TYPHUS.>> The documentary was made in 2005, by a yid, and I note they're still using> the mythical 4million figure for deaths at Auschsitz. Haven't correctedthe> script. They also state, quite clearly, there were 6m jewish deaths in> camps. No mention of the supposed Einzatzgroupen.>> The entire documentary is a farcical attempt heighten the victimhoodstatus> of yids.>> Any of the experts like to comment? Keenan? You're an
>expert oneverything.> Gord, likewise. McFey? Got any answers chaps?>> I look forward to your attempts to shoot this one down.>Russian troops marched into Berlin on April 24, 1945, they found 800 Jewsalive and well in Berlin's Jewish hospital.http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/21/newsid_3560000/3560175.stm51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration With the Nazishttp://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409086.html"Topaz"  wrote in messagenews:pklr449roj8r6c7ufl47es37l1bef7ahbe@4ax.com...>> "The orthodox holocaust story can not possibly be defended with> rational arguments because its absurdity is overwhelming. We are asked> to believe in the fata morgana of a vast slaughter in killing> factories which left no traces whatsoever - no documents, no bones, no> teeth, no ashes - nothing! We are further asked to believe that the> Allies, who had a large network of informers all over Europe and a spy> in the German leadership (Admiral Canaris, the head of
>the German> intelligence), did not become aware of this gigantic genocide until> the end of the war, for if they had known about the mass murder, they> would have acted to stop it. Finally, we are asked to believe that the> Jews in Poland, the epicentre of the holocaust, did not know anything> about the Auschwitz gas chambers as late as in August 1944, otherwise> the Jews from the Lodz ghetto would not have gone to Auschwitz> voluntarily - which is precisely what they did, as related by Raul> Hilberg in his standard work about the holocaust (Die Vernichtung der> europaeischen Juden, p. 543/544).>> As the Zionist-controlled system of the "Western democracies" is> woefully unable to counter the revisionists with arguments, it resorts> to censorship and brute force in order to silence the dangerous> heretics. And the Jews are gradually transforming the holocaust into a> religion. This is a very clever strategy, for as Robert Faurisson> aptly remarks, one cannot refute a religion with
>scientific arguments.> Thus, the holocaust museums and holocaust monuments spreading like> mushrooms all over America and Europe are really temples of the new> religion, whereas professional "holocaust survivors" such as Elie> Wiesel are the priests of the new religion. To prove this assertion,> we only have to quote Wiesel himself: "The Holocaust is a holy> mystery, the secret of which is limited to the circle of the> priesthood of survivors" (Peter Novick, The Holocaust in American> Life, 1999, p. 211, 212, retranslated from the German). Another high> priest of the holocaust cult, Simon Wiesenthal, goes even further:> "When each of us comes before the Six Million, we will be asked what> we did with our lives... I will say: I did not forget you" (Simon> Wiesenthal in Response, Vol. 20, Nr. 1).>> No critical questions about the holocaust are allowed because they are> a blasphemy: They cause immense distress to the eternal victims of> persecution, the Jews, and are an attempt to
>whitewash National> Socialism - the most evil ideology of all times which made the> holocaust possible! In today's Germany, it is even considered> inadmissible to compare the holocaust with the atrocities of communist> tyrants such as Stalin or Cambodian dictator Pol Pot because this is> regarded as a "relativisation" and "trivialization" of the worst crime> in history.>> French Zionist propagandist Claude Lanzmann, the producer of a long> and unspeakably dull film about the holocaust (the title of this film> is Shoa, the Hebrew word for "catastrophe", which is often used by> Jews as a synonym for "holocaust") makes no effort to conceal that the> holocaust cult is to replace Christianity:>> "If Auschwitz is something other than a horror of history, then> Christianity totters in its foundations. Christ is the Son of God, who> went to the end of the humanely endurable, where he endured the> cruellest suffering. (...) If Auschwitz is true, then there is a human> suffering with which
>that of Christ simply cannot be compared. (...)> In this case, Christ is false, and salvation will not come from him.> (...) Auschwitz is the refutation of Christ." (Les temps modernes,> Paris, December 1993, p. 132, 133.)>> Nowadays, a large percentage of the Jews do not believe in God any> more, but virtually all of them believe in the Six Million. The> Zionist leadership cunningly exploits the holocaust to unite the> World's Jews by keeping them in a constant state of hysteria and> persecution mania, insinuating that only if the Jews stick together> will they be able to ban the threat of a new holocaust.>> It goes without saying that very few Non-Jews are willing to embrace> the murky holocaust religion. While the overwhelming majority of> people in the West still believe that the official holocaust version> is essentially true (even if they suspect that the figures might me> somewhat inflated), they are thoroughly fed up with the eternal> lamentation about Jewish victims and
>Jewish suffering. They simply> don't want to hear it any more. In Germany, opinion polls showed that> a vast majority of the population was against the planned holocaust> monument in Berlin (which not a single major party, not a single> leading politician and not a single big newspaper dared to oppose).> Privately, the politicians are probably as profoundly disgusted with> the endless holocaust litany as the rest of the population, but they> cannot possibly afford to let the revisionists win because this would> shatter the very foundations of the "democratic" system to which they> own their careers and their wealth...>> The ultimate weapon against Zionism and the state of Israel>> At the end of the year 2000, Israel is a besieged country, but from> the military point of view, it is still vastly superior to its> neighbours, and it enjoys the unconditional support of the United> States. Should any of the Islamic states grow strong enough to> seriously threaten Israel, it would most
>probably be attacked and> militarily annihilated by America. Russia is not likely to risk a> confrontation with the USA for the sake of the Palestinians. We can> certainly admire the bravery of the Palestinians resistance fighters> who are willing to sacrifice their lives to liberate their homeland> from the alien intruders, but realistically, they have no chance to> win. The Palestinians have stones and slings. The Israelis have> helicopters and tanks. You can't destroy helicopters and tanks with> stones and slings.>> When fighting one's enemy, one should always look for his weakest> spot. The weakest spot of Israel, its Achilles heel, is the holocaust> lie to which it owes its existence. The revisionists can give the> adversaries of Israel and international Zionism a terrible weapon. It> is quite true that many revisionists are by no means guided by> political considerations. Some of them - Carlo Mattogno is a good> example - are only motivated by intellectual curiosity: They want
>to> ascertain what really happened to the Jews during the Second World> War. But even if revisionism is not a political movement, its> political implications are tremendous. The revisionists are> endeavouring to find out the truth, and truth is the deadliest enemy> of Israel and international Jewry. Thus, the revisionists objectively> work against Israel and Zionism, even if subjectively their goals are> often purely scientific and devoid of any political ambition. This is,> of course, the reason why they are persecuted and their books burnt in> more and more countries.>> In view of the total Jewish media control and the ever-growing> anti-revisionist repression in many Western countries, it is very> difficult indeed to achieve a revisionist breakthrough. We> revisionists are facing an uphill struggle which can only partly be> explained by our total lack of financial resources. Fortunately the> internet, which the Jews are unable to censure, has greatly improved> our possibilities
to
>make the results of our research known to the> World, but all the same, we should not cherish naive illusions: Not> every citizen of the Western world who is informed about the> revisionist arguments will automatically become revisionist and> anti-Zionist. The average person in the West - and particularly in> Germany - has been so thoroughly brainwashed that a sudden exposure to> the truth can provoke a nervous breakdown or stomach cramps. I have> repeatedly witnessed this myself. Other people would gladly accept the> truth about the holocaust, but as they know that even the slightest> suspicion of revisionism leads to social ostracism, economic ruin and> legal persecution, they understandably prefer not to get involved.> However, if we want to win the war against those whom one of my> Russian friends called "the enemies of God and mankind"..>> The logical consequence of all this is that those countries which are> authentically anti-Zionist and real friends of the oppressed>
>Palestinian people should make the breakthrough of holocaust> revisionism their foremost priority. A tank costs millions of dollars,> yet one soldier can destroy it with a single missile. The revisionists> can provide anti-Zionist freedom fighters with a weapon not even a> thousand missiles can destroy.">>>> http://www.ihr.org/      http://www.natvan.com>> http://www.thebirdman.org     http://www.nsm88.com/>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.htmlWell the claim that they were fighting for a homeland might float, howeverif the are still more concerned about jewish aims and dreams than weighingthis of with the requirements of the other non jewish citizens in thecountries in which they reside, then obviously the non jewish citizens havereason to object and ignore their claims at the expense of their own wealth, lives and wellbeing.We have already paid a top price for assisting jews in their selfish selfishself centred aims.Casualties in WW2Not including the documented  5 million non Jewish
>in concentration campswho far out numbered the suspected true number of Jewish victims. And thisis without lies and exaggerations about non jewish cassualities.Soviet Union 25,568,000China 11,324,000Germany 7,060,000Poland 6,850,000Japan 1,806,000Yugoslavia 1,700,000Rumania 985,000France 810,000Austria 525,000Italy 410,000Great Britain 388,000USA 295,000Holland 250,000Belgium 85,000Finland 79,000Canada 42,000India 36,000Australia 29,000Albania 28,000Spain 22,000Bulgaria 21,000New Zealand 12,000Norway 10,000South Africa 9,000Luxembourg 5,000Denmark 4,000TOTAL 58,353,000The Jewish ghetto police always had the option, she said, of "throwing offtheir uniforms and joining the rest of us" - a point that Yitzak Zuckerman,a leader of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, made in his memoir.http://www.theexperiment.org/articles.php?news_id=2139Without Jewish co operation through the zionists the Germans would neverhave had the resources to herd the Jews into the various camps. And thezionists made it
>impossible for the underground to trust the jews.Like elsewhere, the only people who had the information and the ear of thefrightened Jewish population were the Judenrat. In this case the Judenratcomprised mainly the Zionist Federation members. Without their help the SS,with 19 officers and less than 90 men, plus a few hundred Hungarian police,could not have collected and controlled a million Jews, when they did noteven know their whereabouts.http://www.geocities.com/chabaan_2000/safad.HTM_____________________________________THE PROBLEM BEING THAT THE ONLY WILD AND WEIRD ACCOUNTS OF UNTRAMMELLEDHORROR CAME FROM ONLY JEWS.NON JEWS COMPLETELY CONTRADICTED THE WILD STORIES FROM THE CONTRACTINGMUSCLES TO THE SOAP AND TATTOOED LAMPSHADES, ALL BS.During World WarII, Rassinier was a highly decorated member of the FrenchResistance. In October of 1943 he was arrested by the Gestapo for variousactivities including the smuggling of Jewish refugees over the Franco-Swissborder took 2 years to
>publish his book because of persistent resistanceby the jewish clique.http://www.ihr.org/books/rassinier/debunking1-0.htmlhttp://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A4.htmlhttp://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/articles/HowWarsBegin.htmlhttp://www.anti-rev.org/textes/VidalNaquet92a/part-6.htmlhttp://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Paul_RassinierBut the huge money involved in the reparations won out and we have anothertrue report labeled as a revision against the lies that were spread andapparently plenty of jewish and jewish supporters willing to jump on thebandwagon and build up the stories, supply all sorts of shonky evidence tosupport the lies.And of course the jewish money made it very iffy for experts to testifybecause of the constant arttacks , false ads on the net. in books and byevery jew and his mother of all ages whose chances of being either witnessesof involved were/are slimmer but apparently the courts i n Germany also helpthe cause of falsifying evidence.Although even honest jews
>could not sway the lies and Finklestein likeRassinier, Harry Elmer Barnes(http://www.amazon.com/Perpetual-Peace-Harry-Elmer-Barnes/dp/0939484013 -http://www.courts.fsnet.co.uk/harryelmerbarnes.htm and of course you willfind the jewish supporters here labelling him as a revisionist because hedid not agree with their versionhttp://www.revisionists.com/revisionists/barnes.html -http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/barnes.html), Charles A. Beard(http://www.questia.com/read/6153679?title=Cross%20Currents%20in%20Europe%20To-Day- http://www.questia.com/SM.qst) , Herman Hesse(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Fairy_Tales_of_Hermann_Hesse) ,Frederick Bausman (http://www.thenation.com/archive/detail/13677001) allthe honest teachers and historians were labelled nazi , which of course theywerent, but if you point out the lies the only support you are going to getis from anti semitic groups.And of course there is the decent honest jew tired of the lies.A statement by Norman G. Finkelstein
upon
>publication of Beyond Chutzpahhttp://www.nowar-paix.ca/nowar/forum/6973http://666ismoney.com/HolocaustAds.htmlI, Raquel Baranow am a Grad Student of Holocaust Denial. There are personswith PhD's in various fields whoalso deny the 6 million canard. The best evidence is forensic. Untilrecently, there was never a forensicexamination of the alleged murder weapon (gas chambers). Demographic figuresare incomplete. After the fallof East Europe to communism, many of the millions of Jews who fled Polandinto the Soviet Union or ended upbehind the Iron Curtain changed their names to assimilate, many civiliansdied in the war, many died in theconcentration camps of louse-born typhus. During World War One, two millioncivilians in the Soviet Union diedof typhus. Many died in Stalin's gulags.Yad Vashem,( http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome)a HolocaustDocumentation Center in Israel has a database of 3,000,000 alleged victimsof Naziextermination. But as you can see
>HERE(http://666ismoney.com/YadVashem.html) (my maiden name, Friedemann), nearlyevery name is listed at leasttwice, some as many as five times!http://www.yadvashem.org/lwp/workplace/IY_HON_WelcomeYad Vashem's 3,000,000 "Holocaust victims" database lists nearlyeveryone twice. Some as many at five times. Anyone, includingyou can submit a "Page of Testimony".And of course we have lists duplicated, unconfirmed, but 3m according to ourusual jewish/Zionist sources.Put your name in, you might be missing out on reparations.Has been improvements since this, numbers still very dicey.Name Town District RegionCountry Bday SourceFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of victims from GermanyFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1879 list of deportation from BerlinFriedemann Adolf Berlin Berlin Berlin Germany1905 list of deportation from BerlinIt is forensically impractical or impossible to exterminate millions withlouse disinfestant (hydrogen cyanide gas)or diesel exhaust as
>alleged by malicious "witnesses" or torturedconfessors. There are no written orders forextermination. Aerial reconnaissance photographs of the concentration campsshow no smoke and flamesbelching from the crematoria and pyres as alleged. The photos and recordsshow there was not enough coke orcrematoria to cremate millions of corpses. The "witnesses" and confessorslied about how many minutes it takesto cremate a corpse. Diesel exhaust does not contain significant amount ofcarbon monoxide to kill a human. Ifthe Nazis wanted to kill millions they could have driven the coal firedtrain into a tunnel or quonset hut and gassed'em with the exhaust from the locomotive or used the exhaust from thecrematoria. At Auschwitz, during a typhusepidemic, up to 300 people died per day, hence the crematoria, shaving ofheads and requisitions for tons ofZyklon B louse disinfestant. HCN is a very dangerous, impractical, messymethod for extermination.http://www.vho.org/The Holocaust Controversy A Case for
>open DebateThe Gas Chambers are a fraud, a tourist attraction, slander, demonizing,impractical/impossible, maliciousatrocity propaganda spread by the communists, who hated Hitler andperpetrated by Jews, who were alwayslooking for ways to get to the lands of milk and money. The Jews haveextorted billions from the US Treasury,Germany, Swiss banks and insurance companies on account of the Holohoaxfraud. The Holohoax also makesthose who fought Hitler feel like they did something good fighting thedemon, Hitler instead of letting Hitler takeon Stalin alone.A "liberal" person has an open mind. A bigot is irrational and obstinate.And then we have the honest red cross with no ulterior motives.The New Blasphemyby Tom BlairNews Editor, The JubileeThere was a time when a man did not blaspheme God in America. There weresevere social proscriptions against it. Some communities even had lawsagainst blasphemy. Well blasphemy is still a great sin in America and maysoon be a crime again. But sadly
>America has a new god and so, a newblasphemy.Let me here commit the new blasphemy while it is still legal. What we knowas the "holocaust" is largely war-time propaganda. Propaganda that, unlikemost war-time propaganda, was not quietly forgotten. Instead it hascontinued; grown more fantastic, more hateful, and more dangerous toquestion every year since 1945.The truth is that somewhere between 700,000 and 1,500,000 people died inGerman work camps in 1944 and 1945. Most of them were Jews. Many were not.Most of them died in the last six months of the war from disease and hungercaused by America's bombing of Germany and subsequent destruction of herinfrastructure. There were some atrocities but very few. Few people realizethat the International Red Cross had a field office in Auschwiz from 1942until the end of the war. That office never reported or recorded anyatrocities (Several years ago international Jewry forced the Red Cross toapologize to the Jews - apologize for not seeing
>something that neverhappened.)Ø > WARNING To People in Austria; Belgium; France; Germany;> > Israel; Spain and Switzerland. You can be fined,> > imprisoned or both for discussing the topics set> > forth in this article.It was only after I moved to the Los Angeles area several years ago that Irealized that many people were not aware that millions of victims of theHolocaust were NOT Jewish. Outside the Polish community, I heard very littlemention about the five million non-Jewish victims -- usually referred to as"the othersSubject: Israeli rabbi backs Jewish suicide attacks  Organization: Copyright1997 by Reuters  Lines: 43   Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 9:22:44 PDT Kidnappings, Beatings, Murders and HangingsAttacks by the Irgun and Stern Gang  - In 1944, with the end the war insight, Irgun, now under the leadership of Menachem Begin , the future PrimeMinister of Israel 1977-83, began to attack the British administration inPalestine, starting with bomb attacks on the immigration offices,
>taxoffices and police stations. http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Palestine/kidnap.htmThe Americans were strongly pro Jewish and very anti British. One Hollywoodmotion picture Mogul declared in the British press that he had a holiday inhis heart every time a British soldier was killed in Palestine. and largesections of the American media echoed this sentiment.November 27  -Eight British soldiers killed in bomb attack on police station Jerusalem,Palestine, in Jewish Irgun terrorist attack.http://www.cdiss.org/terror_1940s.htmJuly 22   - Ninety people killed and forty five wounded after Jewishterrorists blow up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, Palestine, which washome to British government and military offices. The terrorists held workersat pistol point while they planted the explosives in the basement of thehotel.July 12   -  Jewish Irgun terrorists kidnap and then hang two British Armysergeants. The terrorists were trying to secure the release of three Irgunmembers who had been
>sentenced to death by the British authorities inPalestine.September 29   - Jewish Irgun terrorists bomb police station in Haifa,Palestine, killing four British and four Arab policemen, as well as two Arabcivilians. Forty six people injured.HOW ABOUT YOU BETRAYING THE USA AND IT'S ALLIES?????HOW ABOUT YOUR SHIPMATES 0- SORRY GOOD EHOUGH?http://www.ussliberty.com/challenge.htm -   $10,000 challenge - The LibertyVeterans Association offers a $10,000 reward to anyone who can establish thetruth of A. Jay Cristol's claim: 1http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.htmlAt 0800 hrs, 8 June, 1967, eight Israeli recon flights flew over 'Liberty,'which was flying a large American flag. At 1400 hrs, waves of low-flyingIsraeli Mystere and Mirage-III fighter-bombers repeatedly attacked theAmerican vessel with rockets, napalm, and cannon. The air attacks lasted 20minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew
lay
>dead, ahundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander WilliamMcGonagle.http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-l/agtr5.htmOn the afternoon of 8 June 1967, while in international waters off the SinaiPeninsula, Liberty, though clearly marked as a U.S. Navy ship, was struck byIsraeli aircraft. After suffering damage and many personnel casualties fromgunfire, rockets and bombs, she was further attacked by three Israeli Navymotor torpedo boats. One torpedo hit her on the starboard side, forward ofthe superstructure, opening a large hole in her hull. In all, thirty-fourmen were killed in the attacks and nearly 170 wounded. Israel subsequentlyapologized for the incident, explaining that its air and naval forces hadmistaken the Liberty for a much smaller Egyptian Navy ship.December 12   -  Twenty Arabs, five Jews and two British soldiers killed andthirty wounded in Jewish terrorist bomb attacks on buses in Haifa andRamleh, Palestine. British mandate to rule Palestine
>ends on 15 May 1948;state of Israel established.December 29  - Jewish Irgun terrorists throw grenades from passing taxi intocafé near the Damascus gate, Jerusalem, Palestine, killing eleven Arabs andtwo British policemen.March 11Headquarters of the Jewish Agency, Jerusalem, Palestine, destroyed by Arabcar bomb killing thirteen and injuring eighty four.April 9Jewish Irgun terrorist group attacks Deir Yassim, Palestine, murdering twohundred and fifty four Arab women and children captured in the remains ofthe village.JEWS APPEAR TO BE THE ONLY ONES WITH VOICES, WHAT HAS HPPENED TO THEPREVIOUSLY VOCIFEROUS WASPS, and other religious and non religious groups.ONE JEWISH HOLLYWOOD MOTION PICTURE MOGULThe the Jewish controlled American media proclaimed  Americans were stronglypro Jewish and very anti British. One Hollywood motion picture Moguldeclared in the British press that he had a holiday in his heart every timea British soldier was killed in Palestine. and large sections of
theAmerican
>media echoed this sentiment.http://hnn.us/articles/832.html"The Palestinians are fighting with human suicide bombers, that's all theyhave. The Israelis . . . they've got one of the most powerful militarymachines in the world. The Palestinians have nothing."-- Ted Turner, Founder of CNN"I do not think that in his heart an Israeli would deny that, if your enemyhas taken land that is rightfully yours and occupied it, then not just yourenemy's army but his wife and son and daughter and servants and all who,under his protection, come to live and make their living on the stolen land,are aggressors. By their presence they aid and abet the occupation."-- Matthew Parris, Saturday Times of London, June 22, 2002"David Ben-Gurion never moved against the Irgun and the Stern Gang untilafter the state was established and secured, which is definitely not true inthe case of the Palestinian Authority. Essentially, the Israelis are askingthe Palestinians to do something they themselves refused to do."
>i-- Hussein Ibish, Communication director of the American ArabAnti-Discrimination Committeehttp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti.html Zionist Jewish supremacists really hate this kind of article, that is why"Hate Crimes" exist.  To protect the highest criminals.Is this Politically Correct??[The very creation of Israel required an act of terror. In 1948, most of thenon-Jewish indigenous people were ethnically cleansed from the part ofPalestine which became Israel. This action was carefully planned. Withoutit, no state with a Jewish majority and character would have been possible.Since 1948, the "Israeli Arabs", those Palestinians who avoided expulsion,have suffered continuous discrimination. Indeed, many have been internallydisplaced, ostensibly for "security reasons", but really to acquire theirlands for Jews.]No, the Zionofreaks want to ban any history but what they write.Isn't it quite glaringly obvious that "The Holocaust" legends would fallapart without laws
>that make it illegal to question it?Isn't it glaringly obvious that 911 was the "Goy Holocaust" for America,that short circuits critical thinking and creates a victim mentallity thatjustifies all sorts of crimes against "evil"?Without "The Holocaust" and "911", the manipulators of the US and Israelwould not have been able to carry out their "War on Terror" terrorismagainst the Arabs.But with a public that thinks it is persecuted and under attack, anyatrocity is justified.The terrorists have won.  For now.http://forum.cari.com.my/archiver/?tid-117974.htmlDecember 4, 1948New Palestine PartyVisit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement DiscussedTO THE EDITORS OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergencein the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut),a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, politicalphilosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formedout
of
>the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, aterrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.Attack on Arab VillageA shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin.This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had takenno part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use thevillage as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bandsattacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in thefighting, killed most of its inhabitants - 240 men, women, and children -and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets ofJerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and theJewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan.But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of thismassacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondentspresent in the country to view the heaped
>corpses and the general havoc atDeir Yassin.The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of theFreedom Party. (signed)Isidore Abramowitz, Hannah Arendt, Abraham Brick, Rabbi Jessurun Cardozo,Albert Einstein, Herman Eisen, M.D., Hayim Fineman, M. Gallen, M.D., H.H.Harris, Zelig S. Harris, Sidney Hook, Fred Karush, Bruria Kaufman, Irma L.Lindheim, Nachman Maisel, Symour Melman, Myer D. Mendelson, M.D., Harry M.Orlinsky, Samuel Pitlick, Fritz Rohrlich, Louis P. Rocker, Ruth Sager,Itzhak Sankowsky, I.J. Schoenberg, Samuel Shuman, M. Znger, Irma Wolpe,Stefan WolpeNew York, Dec. 2, 1948[/quote]http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article1197235.ece"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in messagenews:4MKdnSvnVuD_lmrVnZ2dnUVZ_gadnZ2d@giganews.com...>> "Jason P"  wrote in message> news:xY6dndIdJenal2rVnZ2dnUVZ_szinZ2d@earthlink.com...>>>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message>>
>news:fvmdnZT_ff_ILmnVnZ2dnUVZ_t_inZ2d@giganews.com...>>>>>> NEVER FORGET: "Deborah Lipstadt, author of the anti-revisionist polemic>>> Denying the Holocaust, has assigned [Binjamin Wilkormiski's book]>>> Fragments>>> in her Emory University class on Holocaust memoirs. When confronted with>>> evidence that it is a fraud [the author spent the war in comfort in>>> Switzerland, not Auschwitz, and was not even a Jew], she commented that>>> the>>> new revelations 'might complicate matters somewhat, but [the work] is>>> still>>> powerful.'" ->>>>>> In other words, who cares about fact or fiction where the Holocaust is>>> concerned?>>>>>>> And she had the classic Jew audacity to discredit David Irving, and then>> make news about it, going on TV with her Jewtardian anti-revisionismsound>> bites.>>>> Jason P>> Lipstadt is a disgusting, ugly, lying jewess, who is a tad smarter than> cohen.>> Here's some questions put to the slag which she has never acknowledged.>> Questions for Lipstadt>> WE
>ARE often asked for questions to put to Professor Lipstadt in her> well-funded peregrinations around the world.> ________________________________________> . . . here are just a few:> 1. Prof. Lipstadt - why were you afraid to go into the witness box and> expose yourself even to the questioning of an amateur like Mr. Irving? You> effectively pleaded the Fifth Amendment, which is the traditional route of> those with something to hide. (Mr. Irving subjected himself voluntarily to> three weeks' cross examination by one of the world's leading triallawyers,> and he voluntarily made available to you his entire private and public> papers.)>> 2. are you aware that one of your main researchers, Dr. David Cesarani,said> that Mr. Irving gave the defence some scary moments, particularly whentheir> chief expert witness on the architecture of Auschwitz, Prof. Van Pelt,> proved unable to explain what had happened to the bodies (i.e. thelogistics> of disposing, for example, of 450,000 Hungarian
Jews'
>bodies in three> weeks - around 50,000 tons of corpses, by a small Sonderkommando in one> crematory building) [Internet link: see> http://www.fpp.co.uk/docs/trial3/DieZeit120400e.html]>> 3. why did you not accept David Irving's challenge, made three times> publicly in the courtroom, that he would halt the case in mid-trial if you> could find any evidence of the holes in the roof slab of Crematorium II at> Auschwitz - which still exists - through which "eye witnesses" in the payof> war-crimes prosecution teams claimed to have seen SS officers tipping the> Zyklon B granules? Your own chief witness Van Pelt said there are no such> holes in the slab, so somebody lied, right?>> 4. why are you afraid of free debate? You have said there is no debate,but> when push came to shove your highly paid Queen's Counsel felt it necessary> to fill the courtroom every day for three months with over thirty lawyers,> counsel, barristers, assistants, historians, and researchers, just tostand> up against
>Mr. Irving, who appeared in court alone. Was your case really> that weak?>> 5. why have you and your friends done all you can to muzzle Mr. Irving -by> putting pressure on publishers, broadcasters, television companies, and> governments not to allow him to speak or to publish his widelyacknowledged> books? What are you scared of?>> 6. in a trial which was about a very serious matter, why did you instruct> your counsel to resort to smear tactics, branding Mr. Irving as an> anti-Semite and a racist (although he, unlike your Counsel, frequently> employs ethnic minorities as his personal staff), and although neither> allegation was made in your book or pleaded in your initial Defence? Were> you frightened of fighting the case on the facts of history?>> 7. how much money have you made out of this trial (articles, speakingfees,> etc.) already? That's what it's about, isn't it - money?>> 8. do you think it right that your lawyers paid some of your so called> "neutral" expert witnesses a
>quarter of a million dollars in inducementsto> testify in your favour? Those six million dollars put up by Steven> Spielberg - you are a religious scholar: Have you never heard the Biblesay,> "Good wine needs no bush"? If your case is rock solid why was so muchmoney> swilling around that London courtroom? [Internet link:> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/experts/payments.html]>> 9. a new Zealand academic tribunal has just found that Prof. RichardEvans,> your chief witness, was guilty of grossly distorting, misquoting,> exaggerating, and polemicizing in his similar "expert report" on Dr. Joel> Hayward, and totally lacking in the objectivity that is expected by acourt> of an expert witness. How do you feel about Evans now? [Internet link:> http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/experts/Evans/NZReportExtract.html]>> 10. have you read Norman Finkelstein's book, The Holocaust Industry. Is hea> racist and anti-Semite too?>> 11. you have argued in your books and articles that Jews should
>neverstoop> to marrying outside their religion and race. Is that not racism in its> purest and most evil form?>> 12. who paid your own multi-million dollar legal expenses, and why did the> British High Court, unusually, not allow you to reclaim them?>> 13. Judge Gray found in his Judgment that three of the statements you made> in your book against Mr Irving are in fact serious lies just as he claimed> (the Stockholm terrorist conference, the Hitler painting "above his desk",> the stealing or damaging of the Goebbels diaries from the Moscow archives.> Have you removed them from the book's latest editions?) (Answer: You have> not).>>>>>>What fraud? Stop trying to divert attention from whats important here. Also,how has David Irving got anything to do w/ 'reactivating the Nazi Party'?He's a historian - also used to be a very famous one too, until he realisedthe truth & stopped writing about the 'Holocaust', THAT was his crime. Ialso believed in it until I started looking at all these
>reports. Q: Ifthere was a 100% certainty it never happened, what evidence would stop youbelieving? A : NONE while you accept the staus quo.http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htmA look at these healthy happy jews will make you wonder just a little moreabout the hardship claims.http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/letters/2003oct_nbr01.htmThis is a contribution to your inquiry about the label: "holocaust-denial".First of all there was NO holocaust, other than those taking place in everycountry that is at war.The incarceration of "enemies of the state" is a world-wide practice. Theprimary question here is; what constitutes a holocaust? Camps, depravation,imprisonment, harsh treatment, executions, hunger etc.?Those conditions exist in all camps, in all nations, under all regimes.Remember Andersonville, Manzanar, the Gulags, the British camps in Africa,the American death-camps in Germany, they all constitute a "holocaust" ifviewed through the lenses of Jewish
"holocaust-sufferers".Scholars
>Challenge Holocaust StoryDuring the past decade, though, more and more "Revisionist" historians,including respected scholars such as Dr. Arthur Butz of NorthwesternUniversity, Prof. Robert Faurisson of the Univeristy of Lyon in France andbest-selling British historian David Irving, have been vigorouslychallenging the widely-accepted extermination story. They do not dispute thefact that large numbers of Jews were deported to concentration camps andghettos, or that many Jews died or were killed during the Second World War.Revisionist scholars have, however, presented considerable evidence to showthat there was no German program to exterminate Europe's Jews and that theestimate of six million Jewish wartime dead is an irresponsibleexaggeration.Many Holocaust Claims AbandonedCaptured German DocumentsAt the end of the Second World War, the Allies confiscated a tremendousquantity of German documents dealing with Germany's wartime Jewish policy,which was sometimes officially referred to as
>the "final solution." But nota single German document has ever been found which even refers to anextermination program. To the contrary, the documents clearly show that theGerman "final solution" policy was one of emigration and deportation, notextermination. Consider, for example, the confidential German Foreign Officememorandum of August 21, 1942 (Nuremberg document NG-2586-J. NMT greenseries, Vol. 13, pp. 243-249). "The present war gives Germany theopportunity and also the duty of solving the Jewish problem in Europe," thememorandum notes. The policy "to promote the evacuation of the Jews (fromEurope) in closest cooperation with the agencies of the Reichsfuhrer SS[Himmler] is still in force." The memo noted that "the number of Jewsdeported in this way to the East did not suffice to cover the labor needs."The document quotes German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop as saying that"at the end of this war, all Jews would have to leave
>Europehttp://www.australiafreepress.org/articles/holocaustliemadeinamerica/holocaustliemadeinamerica.htmHowever, what credible historical investigators worldwide now assert-andwith excellent reasons-is that the German Reich did not give murderousorders concerning, and in fact did not actually murder, the Jews in itscamps.  The Jews suffered more in Germany than the Japanese suffered inAmerica because the enemy's carpet bombing of Germany eventually destroyedthe country's ability to properly maintain the camps.  Everybody practicallystarved toward the end, Jews included.  We must remember that Germany hadperfectly good reasons to distrust the Jews as a group.  As a nation withina nation they had utterly betrayed the country in World War I and moreoverhad literally declared worldwide economic and political war against Germanyin 1933.
>http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=CNDcmNJJi_khttp://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.htmlhttp://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/holocaust_lie.htmThe AntiI-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith: Trapped in a Nazi Fantasylandby Bradley R. SmithMarvin Stern, director for the Northwest regional branch of theAnti-Defamation League (ADL), can't conceal his bewilderment over what hecalls "the growing Holocaust revisionist movement."Mr. Stern expressed his dismay in a column published in The Oregonian, thelargest-circulation daily in the Northwest. His alarm was triggered by theappearance in that newspaper of our ad, "A Revisionist's View of the U.S.Holocaust Memorial Museum."He lays the blame for the growing influence of revisionism on the"ignorance" and "anti-semitism" of Americans. He appears not to understandthat he's charging tens of millions of American citizens with beingignorant, anti-Jewish bigots (a recent Roper poll reported 20 to 30 percentof adult Americans
doubt
>they are being told the truth about the Holocauststory).Spokesmen for the ADL have propagandized themselves into an emptyintellectual corner. Having refused to judge revisionist research on itsmerits, refusing still to admit that revisionists have any substantivearguments whatever, refusing debate or even an exchange of civility, theADL'ers are left with no intellectual tools to work with but invective,misrepresentation, slander, and a sickly dependence on playing their "nazi"card.One result of this intellectually and psychologically stunted behavior isthat many ADL'ers appear to be obsessed with nazis and nazism, neo-nazis,intimations of nazism, rumors about nazis and crazy nazi conspiracies torehabilitate Adolf's reputation.Some ADL'ers, Stern appearing to be one of them, live in an imaginary naziwonderland where they fantasize armies of nazis marching toward them fromdistant horizons, singing songs of conquest, whips in hand, about to leapthrough the ADL office window to lash the
>hapless drudges inside andmistreat them sexually. Such fantasies must be traumatizing for those whosuffer them, but to others they can appear comic and infantile.The text of my ad, which prompted Stern's response, makes at least twoclaims which admittedly are controversial. It asserts that the HolocaustMuseum exhibits no proof that homicidal gas chambers existed anywhere inEurope, and no proof that even one child, woman or man was "gassed" at anyGerman camp liberated by the Allies. I flew to Washington, toured theMuseum, and that's my assessment of its exhibits.Mr. Stern writes that the best response to the "outrageous lies" ofrevisionism, that is, the text of my ad about the Museum, is to "reiteratethe truth" and "repeat the facts." It's good advice, but Stern avoids itlike the plague. Instead, he reveals the common ADL self-serving obsessionwith hate movements growing like cancers in American society. He doesn'teven try to assure his readers that the Museum does, in fact, exhibit
>proofof one gas chamber or one victim of a gas chamber. Why?The Marvin Sterns and the ADL face a conundrum. They can continue to railwith empty irrationalism against legitimate revisionist research and watchthe number of Americans who are increasingly unsure what to believe aboutthe Holocaust story increase year after year.Or they can turn to the orthodox scholars in the field for help inresponding to revisionist questions. That would be the adult thing to do.The ADL'ers however, true to form, have chosen to do the childish thing --to substitute schoolyard insults for a grown-up exchange of ideas.Stern's article in The Oregonian ran under the head, "Holocaust RevisionistsShould Be Challenged, Repudiated With Truth." Marvin and I are in completeagreement on this one. Do it! Challenge the claims in my ad with truth! Thathas always been what I've asked for. It's my invitation to the ADL'ers andmy challenge to them -- and to all others. Respond to my ads with truth. Idon't EVER want to
>run an ad that contains an inadvertent error of fact.Why do the Marvin Sterns talk about repudiating revisionism with "truth" andalways evade doing so? Here's my guess. While revisionists almost certainlyare not right about everything, we're not wrong about everything either. Noone is wrong about everything! That's what terrifies Marvin Stern and hisADL buddies. The day they admit the possibility that revisionists are notwrong about everything, their psychological world will collapse. They'llhave admitted that revisionists are human beings, that we eat our soup witha spoon just like they do.And there's the rub. The ADL'ers can't afford to admit that revisionists areordinary men and women -- that is, human beings. The ADL committed itself toits nazi devil fantasy half a century ago and has ridden it so long sosuccessfully it can't get off, no matter how broken down and exhausted theold nag is.Marvin Stern is probably a nice guy. He's probably a smart guy. When a smartguy goes over
the
>line and becomes a true believer it's almost impossiblefor him to change his mind. When a true believer changes his mind he becomesan apostate. He feels like a traitor. A dumb guy can just change his mindand go about his business. A smart guy who's become a true believer has towork out a theory explaining how, being so smart, he could have believedsomething so dumb so long. It's not easy. I know.Marvin, I used to believe everything about the Holocaust story you believenow. It's not a sin to be wrong. It's human. You have a theory you believeis true, I have a theory I think is true. Let's talk things over. You knowhow it goes. I listen to you. You listen to me. We have a beer. We settlethe world's problems.(Bradley R. Smith is director of Committee for Open Debate on theHolocaust.)"samson"  wrote in messagenews:2a5cf2ae-3e9b-485e-97cc-1641c3c38f86@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...Stuart Littlewood considers the imposible mission of a British publicrelations firm
>hired by Israel to boost the image of the Middle East'smost notorious land-grabber, ethnic cleanser and all-round threat toworld peace.As many others have remarked, Israel is among the worst brand-names onthe planet.That's understandable considering the regime was founded on terror, ismassively armed and subsidized by the US, thrives on lands seized fromits neighbours at gun-point and is bent on making its illegaloccupation permanent. As a brand it never had a chance to flourish inany nice way.The "Israel brand?" Murdering civilians under illegal occupation -Beit Hanoun 2008So what's to be done? Could clever public relations hush the bad vibesand amplify the good - and change our perceptions?The Israelis seem to think so. A report in the Guardian says they'vehired a British firm of image consultants.The top brass in Tel Aviv are right to be worried. "Israel's brandimage does not serve its interests right now," warns Ido Aharoni, headof brand management at the Foreign Ministry.The
>Israel-Palestine struggle has been a stain on it for years and MrAharoni blames the unwillingness of the Palestinians to curb their"terrorism". In an interview with The Tartan, the student newspaper ofPittsburg's Carnegie Mellon University, he said: "It is time for theArab world to look in the mirror... What is the future of a societythat nurtures the culture of death?"Good question. Mr Aharoni's own government assassinates opponents,routinely abducts Palestinians in the dead of night, demolishes theirhomes, confiscates their lands and strangles their economy. Some10,000, including women and children and MPs, are banged up in foulIsraeli jails, many without charge or trial. Let's not go into thenumber of kills, especially the children. It's too upsetting. Andlet's not even mention the murderous Lebanon adventure.Research shows that the brand spells conflict and Israel is seen asthe bringer of bad news. "The conclusion is that it is more importantfor Israel to be attractive than to
be
>right," says Mr Aharoni.I do hope he wasn't charged too much for these findings.Summoning up the magic powers of "chi"After behaving as they have for 60 years and earning worldwideopprobrium, it's no surprise that Israelis are eager to re-brand. Butdo they realize what it involves? There's more to it than a new logo,a new prime minister, a slick new website and early retirement forMark Regev. Deep reforms to the whole Israel project must go hand-in-hand.The firm that has accepted the challenge, Acanchi, says it aims to"unlock the magic that can be used to create a compelling brandpositioning". To achieve this it will tap into a mysterious innerenergy or life force called "chi": "We believe that success for acountry, city or region brand can be achieved by discovering, definingand channelling this chi into a brand positioning that reflects thecore truths of a place."Israel's "unique selling point"?  Murdering neighbours - Lebanon 2006No, really. Fiona Gilmore, Acanchi's boss,
>maintains that a new brandis always rooted in the reality and essence of the place. "We immerseourselves in the place and its culture. We get to know real people,their traditions and their way of life. We listen to the music, readthe poetry and novels, look at the visual art and interview the poets,writers, musicians and artists. We discuss heritage and provenance...The essence of a country has to be based on a core set of truthsderived from the experiences, thoughts and feelings of the people ofthat country..."Good hunting, Ms Gilmore. Please tell us when you have managed todiscover the core truths and essence of the Israeli regime and theplace its tanks, troops and helicopter gunships occupy - the HolyLand. Readers throughout the Christian and Muslim worlds would love toknow.As we speak, Israel continues to persecute Christians as well asMuslims, and is said to be planning a reinvasion of half-starved Gazato crush the remnants of Palestine's democratically-elected government-
never
>mind the cost in blood, flying body-parts, vaporized torsos,wrecked infrastructure and wiped-out economy.It continues to scupper the peace process with even more illegalsettlements in the West Bank. And instead of heeding instructions todismantle that abomination, the Wall, Israel carries on building it.Theft of land and water resources continues unabated, and Palestiniansnow have to make do with meagre rations, or go without, while Israelisfill their swimming pools and wash their cars.These abuses do not sit well with ordinary people in the West butluckily are OK with our corrupted politicians.A favourite PR trick is the use of great cruelty to goad Palestiniansinto violent response that can be twisted into "positive" Israelipropaganda for Western consumption. The hysteria whipped up over home-made Qassam rockets "raining down" on Sderot is a prime example.What provokes these rockets, which are so crude that only 1 in 500proves fatal? It's the Big Lie - the fact that Israel
>continued tooccupy Gazan airspace and coastal waters, and keep 1.5 million peoplebottled up in that tiny enclave, after telling the world it had"withdrawn completely". There's a long list of other provocations suchas the never-ending occupation and cynical exploitation of the WestBank and East Jerusalem, 40 per cent of which is now off-limits toPalestinians.And we never hear about the countless thousands of cannon shells andother deadly fire relentlessly poured into the tightly-packedcommunity trapped in the Gaza Strip by Israel's advanced weaponsystems - like shooting fish in a barrel.The puzzle now is why a respectable firm of UK consultants would wishto boost the image of the Middle East's most notorious land-grabber,ethnic cleanser and all-round threat to world peace.  Is the Acanchiteam going into it with eyes open? Assuming they observe the caveatthat "no marketing communication should mislead, or be likely tomislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission
>orotherwise", how can this client - even with the help of chi's magicpowers - be made to smell like an English rose?Face it: a brand is only as good as the actual product, the way itbehaves and how it scores on all the measures people use to evaluateit. Upgrading the Israel brand can only be done honestly if the Israelproduct itself changes for the better. That requires a courageous andseismic shift. Perhaps Acanchi has advanced knowledge of a majorrevolution that will set Israel on a more enlightened path.Now, that would be something truly worth celebrating - the turningpoint millions have prayed for. Here would be the hook on which tohang a new brand. Ms Gilmore might then have a sporting chance.But any cold-light-of-dawn reality check will tell her she's on a"mission impossible".--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Stuart Littlewood is author of the book Radio Free Palestine, whichtells the plight of the Palestinians under occupation.
For
>furtherinformation please visit www.radiofreepalestine.co.uk.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1953454 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:33:41 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 22:00:55 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> Indeed, the Pope has immensely more prestige and credibility than some
>>>> silly superstitious rabbi.
>
>>> Why is the Pope any less "superstitious" than a Rabbi?
>
>> All human religions are essentially superstition, but some more than
>> others. Judaism is a tribal religion with a focus on one ethnic group,
>
>No.  Everyone can convert to Judaism.
>
>> while Catholicism is a universal religion with some benefit for all
>> humanity. 
>
>>> And why did your beloved Nazis murder so many priests?
>
>> That is largely conjecture.  
>
>No,  it's fact.
>
>> Besides, wasn't it you that argued that "legal" executions are not murder?
>
>Have you nothing better than semantic games?  And no,  I don't
>recall writing anything like that.
>
>> The only priests/pastors who were
>> excuted were people involved in anti-government activities. 
>
>Bullshit.
>
>> Incidentally, the political notions of the NSDAP are not ones to which
>> I would personally subscribe, but then I also reject your ideas of
>> anything-goes, tendentious nonsense history as long as it is
>> anti-fascist. You seem to follow Soviet notions of history where
>> history is "bunk designed to deceive the masses and serve the
>> interests of the people in power".
>
>More bullshit.
>
>You're not living in the real world.  Seek help.
>
>> I believe in scientific history
>> that is backed by solid physical evidence,
>
>Good.  Then show us the corpses of all the Germans you claim
>were "murdered by the Allies after the war".

Yawn...more silly word games. There isn't much point in trying to
discuss anything with you. I don't care if you believe it or not, but
it is a known fact that the dying in Germany accelerated after
08-May-1945 rather than declining. Millions of German citizens, and
others who were only ethnically German, became victims of allied greed
and excess AFTER the war. Postwar losses of life exceed those of the
war years.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1953456 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zahlen für Nazimassaker in Italien
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 19:31:18 -0700 (PDT), "Chris C. Larson"
 wrote:

>On Oct 22, 11:24 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> Ja was es nicht alles gibt gelle. Gab es zur damaligen zeit keine Partisanen
>> ?. Hier nur ein vergleich. In Jugoslawien haben die Partisanen eine deutsche
>> Einheit gefangen genommen und dann anschließend in eine Hölle zum verhungern
>> eingemauert. Später als die deutschen das Dorf zurück erobert und die
>> Partisanen erschossen. Man hört aber nur was die deutschen gemacht haben
>> aber nicht was die andere Seite gemacht hatte.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> "bastian"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:16fe6118-3131-4989-b467-70bb9660f756@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Achne, den Hinterbliebenen/Überlebenden steht das bischen Geld nicht
>> zu ?
>>
>> Woanders haben wir auch großzügig bezahlt.
>>
>> Und, da steht noch einiges an Verbrechen in Italien an.
>>
>> Und in Griechenland die Massenmorde in den Bergdörfern
>> sollten auch noch ausgeglichen werden.
>> Alle Männer erschossen, und das waren auch die Jungen ab 13.....
>>
>> Und wie lange nimmt Italien den Massenmord an unseren Verbündeten
>> in Griechenland noch hin ? Und schweigt ?
>> WikI:
>> Auch Gebirgsjäger waren an Kriegsverbrechen beteiligt, so die 1.
>> Gebirgs-Division an der Erschießung von italienischen Kriegsgefangenen
>> der Division „Acqui“ auf Kefalonia und Korfu. [97] 155 Offiziere und
>> 4750 einfache italienische Soldaten, [98] die sich den deutschen
>> Truppen ergeben hatten, wurden nach ihrer Gefangennahme, den Befehlen
>> des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht folgend und allen Bestimmungen des
>> Kriegsvölkerrechts widersprechend, getötet. Dies war eines der
>> schwersten Kriegsverbrechen mit direkter Beteiligung von
>> Wehrmachtseinheiten.
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> Muß man sich mal vorstellen.
>> Unsere Verbündeten weigern sich an unseren Massenmorden teilzunehmen
>> und gelten nach dem Putsch in Rom als unzuverlässig, werden
>> festgenommen und
>> hingerichtet.
>> Manche Quellen sagen, 6000 ital. Soldaten, manche nur 5 000
>> umgebracht.....
>
>Knolly:
>Fuck you and where you been? Post in English, turd.

Why? If you can't read German, that is your problem.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1953518 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:19:19 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 9:09 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> jgarbuzwrote:
>> > On Oct 20, 7:40 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:24:15 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >>>On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >>>wrote:
>>
>> >>>>On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >>>>>>When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >>>>>>The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> >>>>>There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >>>>>defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> >>>>>it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >>>>>occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >>>>>return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> >>>>>legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> >>>>>League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >>>>The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >>>>religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >>>>absurd.<
>>
>> >>>The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >>>Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >>>if you conquered it, you owned it.
>>
>> >>No, garbageguz,<
>>
>> > I see you are adopting Cramer's ways.
>>
>> >  you are describing Asiatic barbarism. Nobody
>>
>> >>"conquered" Germany. Germany was simply swindled at a fraudulent
>> >>"peace treaty" by a fraudulent organization.<
>>
>> > While the German army was not defeated on the field, the country
>> > itself was totally exhausted. There were Germans who were experiencing
>> > malnutrition and at the verge of starvation. They might have kept the
>> > war going, but with the inexhaustible resources of America behind the
>> > Allies, it would have only been a matter of time before Germany was
>> > invaded and occupied, as happened after WWII.
>>
>> >>Besides, if you figure that Jews have some right to murder and
>> >>displace Arabs, then the reverse is also true.<
>>
>> > Jews never claimed that right, and never exercised it. The Arabs made
>> > the war, and suffered some of the consequences of defeat.
>>
>> >>Are you so simple-minded as to believe that Poles and Czechs have some
>> >>"right" to German lands they managed to appropriate after WW2?<
>>
>> > What German lands? Czech land is Czech land. It was the Germans who
>> > expanded into other people's lands, just as the ARabs had. That's what
>> > an empire is, an expansion into other people's homeland.
>>
>> >>Logically, if this kind of thing is appropriate for Poles and Czechs,
>> >>then it is also appropriate for Germans to recover their property
>> >>using the same sorts of methods as the Poles and Czechs did to steal
>> >>it in the first place.<
>>
>> > Germany was let off easy after WWII because of the Cold War.
>>
>> >>By your arguments, there is nothing wrong with Arabs blowing up
>> >>Israelis, since they are just using the conquest route to acquire
>> >>land, a method you have called legitimate.<
>>
>> > Israel is totally legitimate. As I have repeatedly and exhaustively
>> > explained, the League of Nations recognized that the JEwish National
>> > Homeland is in what you Gentiles callled "Palestine" or "The Holy
>> > Land." And gave Jews the RIGHT to immigrate and resettle their
>> > homeland.
>>
>> If you respect that statement why don't you respect the UNO resolution to go back to 67's
>> frontiers?<
>
>The League of Nations allowed Jews to settle ALL of Palestine WEST of
>the Jordan river.
>It did not exclude them from Gaza or what came to be called the "West
>Bank."

The "settlement" is clearly revealed as a creeping annexation.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1953520 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:07:21 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 1:32 am, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>> On Oct 19, 4:24 pm,jgarbuz wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> > > >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> > > >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> > > >There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> > > >defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> > > >it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> > > >occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> > > >return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> > > >legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> > > >League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> > > The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> > > religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> > > absurd.<
>>
>> > The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> > Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> > if you conquered it, you owned it.  At least the creation of the
>> > League did take into account, to a certain degree, the desires of the
>> > local population in accordance to Woodrow Wilson's radical idea of
>> > "self-determination." But in the case of Palestine, they made an
>> > unusual decision, that a nation in exile for the first time in
>> > history, had the right to return and resettle its ancient homeland.
>> > You can disagree with that decision, but that became international
>> > law.
>> > It was  a unique decision to resolve a unique situation, because there
>> > was no other case of a surviving nation that had been so wholly
>> > dispossessed as was the case with the Jewish nation. Not only were
>> > they dispossessed, but dispersed as well, but never lost their
>> > identity or their belief in their return someday.  And it was
>> > particularly just, because it was a European empire, the Roman empire,
>> > that had caused the destruction, dispossession and dispersal of that
>> > nation. So it was only fair, especially since the Arabs, who had been
>> > under Turkish rule for 400 years, had not liberated themselves, but
>> > had been liberated by Allied, mostly British forces. ANd most of that
>> > territory was to become Arab states. So the Jews had a right to
>> > something too.
>
>> So now that they have Israel they should be all exiled out of all
>> other countries and forced to live in the nation they stole land for.
>> THey have no reason to be in other countries now that they have their
>> Israel back.,
>
>Why not also exile back all the English and Scots Irish settlers
>living on Indian soil too, while we're at it? Or Africans back to
>Africa? Jews have as much right to live in the settler countries, such
>as the US, Canada and Australia, as do all the other settler groups.

LOL

I guess this is one of the very few times I agree with something you
have said, specifically your last sentence about settler states.

Having said that, I should warn you that should Jews arrive in Canada
or the USA with a view to setting up a Jewish state and driving out
the current residents, expect a very negative reaction.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1953525 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:14:43 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 8:48 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> > On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:27:51 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>> >  wrote:
>>
>
>> >>There was no intent to murder anybody. The Jewish  settlers were given
>> >>the right to settle empty lands,
>>
>> > The lands were not empty.<
>
>Lots of the US, and Russia, and Canada and Australia are empty too.
>THere are areas where you can go for hundreds of miles and hardly see
>anyone. The LEague of Nations stated that the Jews could build
>settlements on any land not owned by anyone  else. And that they
>could  also buy land from Arabs to settle as well, which they did. The
>Arabs were most eager to sell worthless land to the JEws, who were the
>only ones crazy enough to want to buy it.

That is an entirely different issue than letting in people who plan to
set up an ethnic state dedicated to themselves and which involves the
expulsion of the current inhabitants.

Personally, I cannot get annoyed by the concept of Jews living in
Palestine. They have done so for millennia. What bothers me is the
concept of a Jewish state achieved by ethnic cleansing.

>
>> The Jewish settlers had the intention from
>> > the start to erect a "Jewish state". A Jewish state is one in which
>> > Jews have a monopoly on the use of force. We allow all manner of
>> > immigrants to Ontario, for example, but if any of these wanted to
>> > erect a "state" dedicated to ethnicity "X", it would be quite
>> > legitimate to oppose them by every means possible.
>>
>> With A LIE as premise "the right to settle empty lands"
>>
>> "A  people without land to a land without people"<
>
>Well, that slogan was wrong. It should have been, a people without
>their land, back to its ancient land occupied by a few squatters.
>However, the Sultan would not have approved any Jews to come if the
>Zionists had used that slogan instead.
>
>> Isn't it true that Palestine was destitute until Israelis made its desert bloom?<
>
>Mostly, yes.
>
>>
>> As it will be proven below based on British Mandatory statistical books and other sources,
>> this myth about Palestine and its indigenous people was concocted to romanticize the
>> "Jewish return and redemption of the Promised Land". Let's get a detailed accounting of
>> the agricultural production in Palestine for the season of 1944-1945, <
>
> In 1945, Jewish settlement had already been going on for 60 years.
>Zionist settlement began in the 1880s. Naturally, once the Brits and
>Jews began to bring in medicine and capital to bring health and jobs
>to the Arabs, things improved substantially.
>
>>
>we will directly
>> quote the British Mandate (who prepared two volume books, titled Survey of Palestine, for
>> the United Nations in 1946-7) as follows:
>>
>> http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665...
>>
>> 12 Answers to 12 Conventional Lies
>>
>> http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/engfaq.html


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Thu Oct 23 13:53:35 EDT 2008
Article: 1953527 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:18:21 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 9:06 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:07:03 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>> >  wrote:
>>
>> >>In article ,
>> >>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> >>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>> >>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>You're terribly confused.  The Arabs started the 1948 war with
>> >>>>the intent of exterminating the Israelis.
>>
>> >>>The Jewish invaders had no business being there in the first place.
>>
>> >>They were not "invaders" by any legal or moral sense.  They
>> >>legally immigrated to a British colony.  The Arabs -- who
>> >>were also immigrants,  by the way -- refused to accept this
>> >>fact,  and the fact that the UN decided to establish the
>> >>state of Israel,  and they commenced a war against Israel,
>> >>with the declared intent of annihilating it.  Well, they lost.
>>
>> >>What do you find so difficult to understand?
>>
>> > They were not "legitimate" immigrants. They went there with the
>> > express purpose of setting up a Jewish state and murdering or
>> > dispossessing the indigenous population. The indigenous population had
>> > and has every right to resist this process by any means possible.
>>
>> > There is nothing wrong with blowing up Jews in the West Bank or Gaza,
>> > since these are armed squatters trying to dispossess the locals. The
>> > rest of Israel is an illegitimate entity created on stolen land.
>>
>> Imagine if Chineses try to make that kind of "legitimate immigration" in USA.
>> When you have 5 Chineses for 1 US citizen maybe you will start to understand how
>> Palestinians see their life today.<
>
>The League of Nations, not the Chinese, legalized Jewish immigration
>to Palestine under international law. Did the UN make it legal for
>Chinese or Mexicans to come to the US with no restrictions?

Even if the UN did, it would be meaningless, since in the case of the
USA, the current residents have sufficient power to repel or destroy
practically any invader. The only crime of the Arabs was being too
weak to prevent the European colonialist powers, mainly Britain, from
swamping them with Jews.

If Britain wanted a home for Jews, they could have legitimately given
them Devonshire, but certainly not Palestine. It wasn't theirs to give
away.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1953529 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:43:44 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:33:41 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> In article ,
>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>>>> I believe in scientific history
>>>> that is backed by solid physical evidence,
>
>>> Good.  Then show us the corpses of all the Germans you claim
>>> were "murdered by the Allies after the war".
>
>> Yawn...more silly word games. There isn't much point in trying to
>> discuss anything with you. 
>
>You said "solid physical evidence".  Now you admit that you're willing
>to accept assertions for which there's no physical evidence.  Make
>up your mind,  ok?

The German government of today has the tax records, places of
residence, property deeds, etc. of the various victims of allied
excess, as opposed to your nameless faceless host of Jews who were
allegedly buried someplace, but when the area is examined it becomes
clear that the soil hasn't been disturbed since before the last ice
age.

There tends not to be much left of a human body after only a few
weeks. Nature's decomposers are really quite efficient. It is sheer
fluke when bones are found significant periods of time after the death
of a person. Even bones only survive in very specific sorts of
conditions.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1953937 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 1:37 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:19:19 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 23, 9:09 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> >> jgarbuzwrote:
>> >> > On Oct 20, 7:40 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:24:15 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> >>>wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >>>>>>When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> >>>>>>The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> >> >>>>>There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >> >>>>>defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> >> >>>>>it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >> >>>>>occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >> >>>>>return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> >> >>>>>legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> >> >>>>>League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >> >>>>The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >> >>>>religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >> >>>>absurd.<
>>
>> >> >>>The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >> >>>Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >> >>>if you conquered it, you owned it.
>>
>> >> >>No, garbageguz,<
>>
>> >> > I see you are adopting Cramer's ways.
>>
>> >> >  you are describing Asiatic barbarism. Nobody
>>
>> >> >>"conquered" Germany. Germany was simply swindled at a fraudulent
>> >> >>"peace treaty" by a fraudulent organization.<
>>
>> >> > While the German army was not defeated on the field, the country
>> >> > itself was totally exhausted. There were Germans who were experiencing
>> >> > malnutrition and at the verge of starvation. They might have kept the
>> >> > war going, but with the inexhaustible resources of America behind the
>> >> > Allies, it would have only been a matter of time before Germany was
>> >> > invaded and occupied, as happened after WWII.
>>
>> >> >>Besides, if you figure that Jews have some right to murder and
>> >> >>displace Arabs, then the reverse is also true.<
>>
>> >> > Jews never claimed that right, and never exercised it. The Arabs made
>> >> > the war, and suffered some of the consequences of defeat.
>>
>> >> >>Are you so simple-minded as to believe that Poles and Czechs have some
>> >> >>"right" to German lands they managed to appropriate after WW2?<
>>
>> >> > What German lands? Czech land is Czech land. It was the Germans who
>> >> > expanded into other people's lands, just as the ARabs had. That's what
>> >> > an empire is, an expansion into other people's homeland.
>>
>> >> >>Logically, if this kind of thing is appropriate for Poles and Czechs,
>> >> >>then it is also appropriate for Germans to recover their property
>> >> >>using the same sorts of methods as the Poles and Czechs did to steal
>> >> >>it in the first place.<
>>
>> >> > Germany was let off easy after WWII because of the Cold War.
>>
>> >> >>By your arguments, there is nothing wrong with Arabs blowing up
>> >> >>Israelis, since they are just using the conquest route to acquire
>> >> >>land, a method you have called legitimate.<
>>
>> >> > Israel is totally legitimate. As I have repeatedly and exhaustively
>> >> > explained, the League of Nations recognized that the JEwish National
>> >> > Homeland is in what you Gentiles callled "Palestine" or "The Holy
>> >> > Land." And gave Jews the RIGHT to immigrate and resettle their
>> >> > homeland.
>>
>> >> If you respect that statement why don't you respect the UNO resolution to go back to 67's
>> >> frontiers?<
>>
>> >The League of Nations allowed Jews to settle ALL of Palestine WEST of
>> >the Jordan river.
>> >It did not exclude them from Gaza or what came to be called the "West
>> >Bank."
>>
>> The "settlement" is clearly revealed as a creeping annexation.<
>
>That's up to the Arabs.

No, it is up to the world at large, and to the USA in particular, to
curb the rapacious appetitite of the terrorist state known as Israel.
Its creation was clearly a mistake, and the day will come when the
world at large will correct that mistake.

There isn't a more hated country on the planet than Israel. Very few
will mourn its demise.





> They could have made peace in 1947, split the
>county with the Jews, and avoided the war of 1948. After losing that
>war, they could have recognized Israel within the 1949 Armistice
>lines, and ended the war. But they did not. They could have chosen not
>to surround Israel and send in terrorists from 1949 through 1967, but
>did not. They could have made peace after losing again in 1967, and
>avoided the "settlements," but did not. So, every time they choose
>violence over peace, we take back a little more of our ancient
>homeland.  THey are really slow learners.  I think it's called
>"retarded."


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1953939 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:25:13 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 9:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:ed61084d-1e8e-4134-b2d1-a21d28c6f01d@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 23, 1:32 am, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>> >> On Oct 19, 4:24 pm,jgarbuz wrote:
>>
>> >> > On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> > > >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist"
>> >> > > >> by the nazis.
>> >> > > >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and
>> >> > > >> occupied.<
>>
>> >> > > >There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >> > > >defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right
>> >> > > >to
>> >> > > >it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >> > > >occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >> > > >return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was
>> >> > > >a
>> >> > > >legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post
>> >> > > >the
>> >> > > >League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >> > > The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >> > > religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >> > > absurd.<
>>
>> >> > The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >> > Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >> > if you conquered it, you owned it.  At least the creation of the
>> >> > League did take into account, to a certain degree, the desires of the
>> >> > local population in accordance to Woodrow Wilson's radical idea of
>> >> > "self-determination." But in the case of Palestine, they made an
>> >> > unusual decision, that a nation in exile for the first time in
>> >> > history, had the right to return and resettle its ancient homeland.
>> >> > You can disagree with that decision, but that became international
>> >> > law.
>> >> > It was  a unique decision to resolve a unique situation, because there
>> >> > was no other case of a surviving nation that had been so wholly
>> >> > dispossessed as was the case with the Jewish nation. Not only were
>> >> > they dispossessed, but dispersed as well, but never lost their
>> >> > identity or their belief in their return someday.  And it was
>> >> > particularly just, because it was a European empire, the Roman empire,
>> >> > that had caused the destruction, dispossession and dispersal of that
>> >> > nation. So it was only fair, especially since the Arabs, who had been
>> >> > under Turkish rule for 400 years, had not liberated themselves, but
>> >> > had been liberated by Allied, mostly British forces. ANd most of that
>> >> > territory was to become Arab states. So the Jews had a right to
>> >> > something too.
>>
>> >> So now that they have Israel they should be all exiled out of all
>> >> other countries and forced to live in the nation they stole land for.
>> >> THey have no reason to be in other countries now that they have their
>> >> Israel back.,
>>
>> > Why not also exile back all the English and Scots Irish settlers
>> > living on Indian soil too, while we're at it? Or Africans back to
>> > Africa? Jews have as much right to live in the settler countries, such
>> > as the US, Canada and Australia, as do all the other settler groups.
>>
>> The Jews in Israel are not settler groups. They are apartheid, brutal
>> occupiers.<
>
>No, they're back in their ancestral homeland.

That is just silly religious drivel from your ridiculous scrolls and
religious myths.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1953940 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:31:44 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 1:44 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:14:43 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 23, 8:48 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >> > On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:27:51 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>> >> >  wrote:
>>
>> >> >>There was no intent to murder anybody. The Jewish  settlers were given
>> >> >>the right to settle empty lands,
>>
>> >> > The lands were not empty.<
>>
>> >Lots of the US, and Russia, and Canada and Australia are empty too.
>> >THere are areas where you can go for hundreds of miles and hardly see
>> >anyone. The LEague of Nations stated that the Jews could build
>> >settlements on any land not owned by anyone  else. And that they
>> >could  also buy land from Arabs to settle as well, which they did. The
>> >Arabs were most eager to sell worthless land to the JEws, who were the
>> >only ones crazy enough to want to buy it.
>>
>> That is an entirely different issue than letting in people who plan to
>> set up an ethnic state dedicated to themselves and which involves the
>> expulsion of the current inhabitants.
>>
>> Personally, I cannot get annoyed by the concept of Jews living in
>> Palestine. They have done so for millennia. What bothers me is the
>> concept of a Jewish state achieved by ethnic cleansing.<
>
>It wasn't achieved by ethnic cleansing. The Arabs chose constantly to
>make war, and so each war produces refugees. It's a problem wholly of
>their own making.

The Arabs were doing nothing more than to try to prevent the ethnic
cleansing. The Zionists were, and are, the aggressors and oppressors.

>
>
>> >> The Jewish settlers had the intention from
>> >> > the start to erect a "Jewish state". A Jewish state is one in which
>> >> > Jews have a monopoly on the use of force. We allow all manner of
>> >> > immigrants to Ontario, for example, but if any of these wanted to
>> >> > erect a "state" dedicated to ethnicity "X", it would be quite
>> >> > legitimate to oppose them by every means possible.
>>
>> >> With A LIE as premise "the right to settle empty lands"
>>
>> >> "A  people without land to a land without people"<
>>
>> >Well, that slogan was wrong. It should have been, a people without
>> >their land, back to its ancient land occupied by a few squatters.
>> >However, the Sultan would not have approved any Jews to come if the
>> >Zionists had used that slogan instead.
>>
>> >> Isn't it true that Palestine was destitute until Israelis made its desert bloom?<
>>
>> >Mostly, yes.
>>
>> >> As it will be proven below based on British Mandatory statistical books and other sources,
>> >> this myth about Palestine and its indigenous people was concocted to romanticize the
>> >> "Jewish return and redemption of the Promised Land". Let's get a detailed accounting of
>> >> the agricultural production in Palestine for the season of 1944-1945, <
>>
>> > In 1945, Jewish settlement had already been going on for 60 years.
>> >Zionist settlement began in the 1880s. Naturally, once the Brits and
>> >Jews began to bring in medicine and capital to bring health and jobs
>> >to the Arabs, things improved substantially.
>>
>> >we will directly
>> >> quote the British Mandate (who prepared two volume books, titled Survey of Palestine, for
>> >> the United Nations in 1946-7) as follows:
>>
>> >>http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665...
>>
>> >> 12 Answers to 12 Conventional Lies
>>
>> >>http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives/engfaq.html


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1953941 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:39:56 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 23, 1:48 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:18:21 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 23, 9:06 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> >> Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 12:07:03 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>> >> >  wrote:
>>
>> >> >>In article ,
>> >> >>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:36:36 +0000 (UTC), someone-somewhere
>> >> >>> wrote:
>>
>> >> >>>>You're terribly confused.  The Arabs started the 1948 war with
>> >> >>>>the intent of exterminating the Israelis.
>>
>> >> >>>The Jewish invaders had no business being there in the first place.
>>
>> >> >>They were not "invaders" by any legal or moral sense.  They
>> >> >>legally immigrated to a British colony.  The Arabs -- who
>> >> >>were also immigrants,  by the way -- refused to accept this
>> >> >>fact,  and the fact that the UN decided to establish the
>> >> >>state of Israel,  and they commenced a war against Israel,
>> >> >>with the declared intent of annihilating it.  Well, they lost.
>>
>> >> >>What do you find so difficult to understand?
>>
>> >> > They were not "legitimate" immigrants. They went there with the
>> >> > express purpose of setting up a Jewish state and murdering or
>> >> > dispossessing the indigenous population. The indigenous population had
>> >> > and has every right to resist this process by any means possible.
>>
>> >> > There is nothing wrong with blowing up Jews in the West Bank or Gaza,
>> >> > since these are armed squatters trying to dispossess the locals. The
>> >> > rest of Israel is an illegitimate entity created on stolen land.
>>
>> >> Imagine if Chineses try to make that kind of "legitimate immigration" in USA.
>> >> When you have 5 Chineses for 1 US citizen maybe you will start to understand how
>> >> Palestinians see their life today.<
>>
>> >The League of Nations, not the Chinese, legalized Jewish immigration
>> >to Palestine under international law. Did the UN make it legal for
>> >Chinese or Mexicans to come to the US with no restrictions?
>>
>> Even if the UN did, it would be meaningless, since in the case of the
>> USA, the current residents have sufficient power to repel or destroy
>> practically any invader.<
>
>You mean like the Mexicans pouring across the border?
>
>> The only crime of the Arabs was being too
>> weak to prevent the European colonialist powers, mainly Britain, from
>> swamping them with Jews.<
>
>They were too weak to overthrow the Ottoman empire under whose rule
>they lived for 400 years. Actually, the British didn't swamp them with
>Jews. The Jews trickled in, but then, so did many Arabs in the
>interim. The UN defined "Palestinian refugee" in 1949, as anyone who
>lived in Palestine at least 2 years before 1948. Quite a few of the so-
>called "refugees" hadn't been in the country all that long either.
>
>> If Britain wanted a home for Jews, they could have legitimately given
>> them Devonshire, but certainly not Palestine. It wasn't theirs to give
>> away.<
>
>It was the LEague of Nations that finally decided, not Britain.

The League of Nations was the creature of the large colonialist
powers. It generally spoke in favour of those colonialist powers, much
like today's UN with its veto for the major powers.

Pontifications by the League of Nations are pretty much predictable
and meaningless.




 The
>LoN's accepted the Balfour Declaration and turned it into
>international law. Anyway, who did "Palestine" belong to? It was ruled
>by the Turks for 400 years, except for a brief interval by Egyptians.
>It was never ruled by the people living there. They were ALWAYS the
>subjects of some empire or external suzereignty. They never had a
>state of their own, and never saw themselves as an independent people,
>until the Jews decided they wanted back. Suddenly a "Palestinian
>people" was manufactured out of thin air with nothing really binding
>them other than their opposition to Jewish predominance.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1953942 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 12:19:43 -0700 (PDT), george 
wrote:

>On Oct 24, 6:54 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>
>> There tends not to be much left of a human body after only a few
>> weeks. Nature's decomposers are really quite efficient. It is sheer
>> fluke when bones are found significant periods of time after the death
>> of a person. Even bones only survive in very specific sorts of
>> conditions.
>
>Nonsense.
>Wrong
>And based upon lies
>But since you are a nazi and trying to defend your heroes despicable
>acts what else would one expect

LOL, George

You're full of shit on all counts.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1953943 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:02:40 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:43:44 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>> You said "solid physical evidence".  Now you admit that you're willing
>>> to accept assertions for which there's no physical evidence.  Make
>>> up your mind,  ok?
>
>> The German government of today has the tax records, places of
>> residence, property deeds, etc. of the various victims of allied
>> excess,
>
>These are documents.

Yes, they are documents, but they are routine documents that applied
to all Germans, not "confessions" extracted by torture or fabricated
out of thin air in forgery mills.

In addition, these are records that were never in allied hands to be
"amended" or falsified.

Historically, anything that was ever in allied hands is pretty much
worthless because it is no longer possible to authenticate it.



>  But Holocaust deniers don't consider documents
>to be trustworthy.  You have to decide:  if you accept these
>documents you speak about,  you also have to accept the documents
>proving the Holocaust.
>
>> as opposed to your nameless faceless host of Jews who were
>> allegedly buried someplace, but when the area is examined it becomes
>> clear that the soil hasn't been disturbed since before the last ice
>> age.
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>
>Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>
>The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>
>
>
>A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was 
>conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists,  headed by
>Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland,  who is the
>author of more than 130 papers on archaeology.  The team studied the site
>of the death camp,  drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core 
>samples.  The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA: 
>"BELZEC.  THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES. 
>Excavations 1997-1999".  ISBN 83-905590-6-4).  The study has recovered 
>human remains over a very large area,  to a depth of up to six meters. 
>The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1953944 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 01:25:56 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Yes I do now tell us who has access to it and who has not. The only version 
>they have is the once the Jews allow them to see.Take into consideration the 
>war trial records are being kept in America and not at Nuremberg.
>Kurt Knoll.

Any documents the Americans have touched are pretty much worthless as
historical evidence of anything.

>
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:PNqdnQ_tdu_rZp3UnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The besotted Poster Boy of Holocaust Revisionism, Kurt Knoll,
>> reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing Stock
>> of UseNet, fluffed his Jet Black SS Dumbkopf Legion Tutu
>> with the "I am Stupid" Merit Badge and  wrote:
>>
>>>How good are you document when Germans are not allowed to examine them.
>>
>> Many of the documents in question are GERMAN documents, under GERMAN
>> control, Herr Knoll. Do you challenge German ability to archive and
>> catagorize their own documents?
>>
>>>Anyone can be a holocaust survivor even if he or she was never in a
>>>concentration camp.
>>
>> Are you trying to assert that ONLY those in camps can call themselves
>> survivors, Herr Knoll?
>>
>> Is that your final answer?
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> "You Jewish witches sure are a crazy ditzy bunch of swine!"
>> (Scott Bradbury, the Leading Revisionist Scholar of
>> Bellville, Texas)
>> The Nizkor Project:                    http://www.nizkor.org/ 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1953945 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:54:33 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>On Oct 23, 11:26 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> How good are you document when Germans are not allowed to examine them.
>> Anyone can be a holocaust survivor even if he or she was never in a
>> concentration camp.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>> ; "please"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:gdqopg$ge$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > In article ,
>> > Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 15:43:44 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >>> You said "solid physical evidence".  Now you admit that you're willing
>> >>> to accept assertions for which there's no physical evidence.  Make
>> >>> up your mind,  ok?
>>
>> >> The German government of today has the tax records, places of
>> >> residence, property deeds, etc. of the various victims of allied
>> >> excess,
>>
>> > These are documents.  But Holocaust deniers don't consider documents
>> > to be trustworthy.  You have to decide:  if you accept these
>> > documents you speak about,  you also have to accept the documents
>> > proving the Holocaust.
>>
>> >> as opposed to your nameless faceless host of Jews who were
>> >> allegedly buried someplace, but when the area is examined it becomes
>> >> clear that the soil hasn't been disturbed since before the last ice
>> >> age.
>>
>> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>
>> > Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>> > Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>> > death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>
>> > The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>> > in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>> > the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>
>> > 
>>
>> > A very elaborate study of the mass graves in the Belzec death camp was
>> > conducted a few years ago by a team of Polish archaeologists,  headed by
>> > Prof. Andrzej Kola from the University of Torun in Poland,  who is the
>> > author of more than 130 papers on archaeology.  The team studied the site
>> > of the death camp,  drilling 1,700 bore holes and investigating the core
>> > samples.  The results are summarized in an 84 page report (ANDRZEJ KOLA:
>> > "BELZEC.  THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES.
>> > Excavations 1997-1999".  ISBN 83-905590-6-4).  The study has recovered
>> > human remains over a very large area,  to a depth of up to six meters.
>> > The minimal estimate to the volume of the graves is 21,000 cubic meters.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>There are Holocuast survivers , that survived by running away , hiding
>mostly in extremely hard conditions.[that later caused illnes and
>invalidities]
>Survivers are those who Survived any situation that WAS CAUSED by the
>persecution, Since they never would have been in that situation if
>they didn`t have to run from the persecution .
>mirjam

WW2 _ended_ 63 years ago. The number of Canadian war veterans is
continuously dropping, but the number of alleged holocaust™ survivors
keeps increasing. How is that? Are we looking at yet another miracle
like the burning lamps in the temple?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:28 EDT 2008
Article: 1953948 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:39:16 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , ZULU   wrote:
>
>> a-little-sanity wrote:
>
>>> These are documents.  But Holocaust deniers don't consider documents
>>> to be trustworthy.  You have to decide:  if you accept these
>>> documents you speak about,  you also have to accept the documents
>>> proving the Holocaust.
>
>> Which documents are you talking about?
>
>This one for example:
>
>"The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
>against the Jews as such.  The Jews have to be exterminated
>and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss.  Although
>the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
>the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially
>for this purpose,  he should be excused for considering himself
>to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry
>himself."   -- from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court,
>in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner,  24 of May 1943.
>Quoted from "The Good Old Days",  E. Klee,  W. Dressen,  V. Riess,
>The Free Press,  NY,  1988,  pages 196-207.

I'm sure that this minor court's deliberations were not in English. Is
the original German text available somewhere. I have seldom been
impressed with the tendentious "translations" coming out of the
holocaust™ industry.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:28 EDT 2008
Article: 1953953 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: jews insult the pope !!!!
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:44:45 -0700 (PDT), mirjam@actcom.co.il wrote:

>
>> The German government of today has the tax records, places of
>> residence, property deeds, etc. of the various victims of allied
>> excess, as opposed to your nameless faceless host of Jews who were
>> allegedly buried someplace, but when the area is examined it becomes
>> clear that the soil hasn't been disturbed since before the last ice
>> age.
>This German records gave me the exact time and train number in which
>they deported my grandparents and aunts and were /when they excuted
>them i have the number of the page where they are noted
>Thus they weren`t  a nameless faceless hord of Jews.
>Alas the Germans forgot to tell me the name of the murderers.
>
>mirjam

The Reichsbahn didn't transport anything for free, and yet the bulk of
these transports show no records or payments. I suspect that your
train numbers were fabricated out of thin air. In addition, I'm told
that the camp records are wrong because the vast bulk of the victims
were just herded to the claimed gas chambers without any attempt at
record keeping. Why would the local authorities go to the trouble of
recording the information you claim for your relatives, when the camp
authorites obviously didn't bother? That is simply NOT how the German
government worked, either now or in the past.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:28:29 EDT 2008
Article: 1953956 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Führte Haider ein Doppelleben?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:47:30 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
> wrote in message 
>news:63a19d97-8722-4f5d-bf05-3a632108f1e1@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>On Oct 23, 5:04 am, "Karl"  wrote:
>>  wrote in message
>>
>> news:7ed7b0a2-2c5d-4f21-9b77-a5ab2442c406@75g2000hso.googlegroups.com...
>> On Oct 22, 7:41 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>> > Liebte der Rechtspopulist (verheiratet, zwei Kinder) auch Männer? War
>> > Österreichs bekanntester Politiker bisexuell?
>>
>> >http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/politik/2008/10/22/haider/oesterreich-tu...
>> >Could you please post in on your OWN newsgroups , it has nothing to do
>> >here .
>> >mirjam
>>
>> It has everything to do with here.
>>
>>> Shut up.
>
>>Why should i be bothered by the problems you found about Your
>>Lieder ?
>
>Shut up, stupid Jewess.
>
>
Lieder??? There was no discussion of songs here. We seem to be dealing
with another illiterate boor.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:54:06 EDT 2008
Article: 1953959 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The French tried *120,000* collaborators, and executed about 12,000 of them
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:12:51 +1000, "Karl"  wrote:

>
>"TallHenry"  wrote in message 
>news:gdqpi4$vom$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>
>>> TallHenry wrote:
>>
>>>>>>         Assuming that what you write is correct,  that's 7 Jews
>>>>>> compared to 120,000 Frenchmen condemned after the war for
>>>>>> cooperating with the Nazis.  Now,  what happened to a Jew who
>>>>>> refused to cooperate,  and what happened to a Frenchmen who
>>>>>> refused to cooperate?
>>
>>          You didn't answer this.  What happened to a Jew who
>> refused to cooperate,
>
>He/she whined and was compensated after the war.
>
>>and what happened to a Frenchman who
>> refused to cooperate?
>
>He/she was shot after the war.
>
>
>>
>>>>>I just gave the names of 7, I don't know how much there were on total.
>>
>>>>           You don't know,  huh.
>>
>>> We have some tracks, to the list you can add all the responsibles of the 
>>> UGIF (UGIF,
>>> General Union of French Jews) of that time,
>>
>>          Even if part of what you're saying is true,  both the magnitude 
>> and
>> attitude behind this dwarf with respect to the French cooperation with the
>> Nazis.  But,  like every nazoid,  the only thing you try to do when 
>> confronted
>> with unpleasant realities is to bash the Jews.  Transparent and pathetic. 
>
The 12,000 "official victims" of the postwar witch-hunt are just the
tip of the iceberg. At least 100,000 Frenchmen died after the war at
the hands of Communist assassination squads. Most of the so-called
resistance fighters were controlled from Moscow and only became active
after 1941. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:54:06 EDT 2008
Article: 1953960 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 30 jews causing trouble german city
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:18:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

> The German town of Goerlitz is refusing to allow its Jewish community to 
>hold its own ceremony marking Kristallnacht.
>Instead, the only ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the Kristallnacht 
>pogrom will be held by the local Protestant church, which has traditionally 
>focused on all victims of the Third Reich.
>
>The small Jewish community had planned to bring a Torah scroll from Dresden 
>into a newly renovated synagogue, which dates from 1909. It is the only 
>synagogue to have survived Kristallnacht in the state of Saxony.

If one goes by the census figures, there really wouldn't have been
more than a small handful of synagogues in Saxony in any case. Between
the Catholics and the Lutherans, they would have encompassed more than
99% of the population. The average proportion of Jews in Germany was
less than 0.4%, and Saxony was definitely not a focal point for Jews,
so the proportion there would have been even less.



>
>But the city insists that ceremonies must be secular and inclusive. The 
>former synagogue was de-consecrated after the 1938 pogrom. Following its 
>six-year renovation, the structure now has room for 230 guests.
>
>"The city has cancelled the entire event planned by the Jewish community and 
>the Society for the Promotion of the Synagogue," which was to include 
>several performances and speeches, Alex Jacobowitz, cantor and chairman of 
>the town's tiny Jewish community, told JTA.
>
>He insisted that the Jewish community's program would be inclusive.
>
>The Society for the Promotion of the Synagogue is a secular group authorized 
>to hold ecumenical events in the building. It cooperates with the Jewish 
>community. Now, only the ceremony run by the local Protestant church is 
>still scheduled to take place in the building.
>
>The city bought the synagogue from the remnant Dresden Jewish community in 
>1963, and then formally purchased it again from the Claims Conference after 
>German unification, according to Jacobowitz, a musician who came from New 
>York to Germany in 1991.
>
>The approximately 30-member Jewish community has held services in a small 
>sanctuary within the building for about a year, Jacobowitz said.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Sat Oct 25 10:54:06 EDT 2008
Article: 1953961 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 30 jews causing trouble german city
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On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:49:56 -0400, Eli Grubman
 wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 08:18:21 +0200, "Heinrich"
> wrote:
>
>> The German town of Goerlitz is refusing to allow its Jewish community to 
>>hold its own ceremony marking Kristallnacht.
>>Instead, the only ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the Kristallnacht 
>>pogrom will be held by the local Protestant church, which has traditionally 
>>focused on all victims of the Third Reich.
>>
>>The small Jewish community had planned to bring a Torah scroll from Dresden 
>>into a newly renovated synagogue, which dates from 1909. It is the only 
>>synagogue to have survived Kristallnacht in the state of Saxony.
>
>Goerlitz still has a "small jewish community"???   Couldn't have been
>that much of a 'holocaust'®, then.

There would not have been more than a few dozen before the war and
there still are a few dozen now. Gold coins resting on the sidewalk
would have been more common than Jews in Görlitz in prewar times.

>
>Eli


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1954637 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:01:42 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 25, 9:50 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 23, 1:37 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:19:19 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Oct 23, 9:09 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> >> >> jgarbuzwrote:
>> >> >> > On Oct 20, 7:40 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>On Sun, 19 Oct 2008 15:24:15 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> >> >>>wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>>When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist" by the nazis.
>> >> >> >>>>>>The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and occupied.<
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >> >> >>>>>defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right to
>> >> >> >>>>>it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >> >> >>>>>occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >> >> >>>>>return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was a
>> >> >> >>>>>legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post the
>> >> >> >>>>>League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >> >> >>>>religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >> >> >>>>absurd.<
>>
>> >> >> >>>The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >> >> >>>Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >> >> >>>if you conquered it, you owned it.
>>
>> >> >> >>No, garbageguz,<
>>
>> >> >> > I see you are adopting Cramer's ways.
>>
>> >> >> >  you are describing Asiatic barbarism. Nobody
>>
>> >> >> >>"conquered" Germany. Germany was simply swindled at a fraudulent
>> >> >> >>"peace treaty" by a fraudulent organization.<
>>
>> >> >> > While the German army was not defeated on the field, the country
>> >> >> > itself was totally exhausted. There were Germans who were experiencing
>> >> >> > malnutrition and at the verge of starvation. They might have kept the
>> >> >> > war going, but with the inexhaustible resources of America behind the
>> >> >> > Allies, it would have only been a matter of time before Germany was
>> >> >> > invaded and occupied, as happened after WWII.
>>
>> >> >> >>Besides, if you figure that Jews have some right to murder and
>> >> >> >>displace Arabs, then the reverse is also true.<
>>
>> >> >> > Jews never claimed that right, and never exercised it. The Arabs made
>> >> >> > the war, and suffered some of the consequences of defeat.
>>
>> >> >> >>Are you so simple-minded as to believe that Poles and Czechs have some
>> >> >> >>"right" to German lands they managed to appropriate after WW2?<
>>
>> >> >> > What German lands? Czech land is Czech land. It was the Germans who
>> >> >> > expanded into other people's lands, just as the ARabs had. That's what
>> >> >> > an empire is, an expansion into other people's homeland.
>>
>> >> >> >>Logically, if this kind of thing is appropriate for Poles and Czechs,
>> >> >> >>then it is also appropriate for Germans to recover their property
>> >> >> >>using the same sorts of methods as the Poles and Czechs did to steal
>> >> >> >>it in the first place.<
>>
>> >> >> > Germany was let off easy after WWII because of the Cold War.
>>
>> >> >> >>By your arguments, there is nothing wrong with Arabs blowing up
>> >> >> >>Israelis, since they are just using the conquest route to acquire
>> >> >> >>land, a method you have called legitimate.<
>>
>> >> >> > Israel is totally legitimate. As I have repeatedly and exhaustively
>> >> >> > explained, the League of Nations recognized that the JEwish National
>> >> >> > Homeland is in what you Gentiles callled "Palestine" or "The Holy
>> >> >> > Land." And gave Jews the RIGHT to immigrate and resettle their
>> >> >> > homeland.
>>
>> >> >> If you respect that statement why don't you respect the UNO resolution to go back to 67's
>> >> >> frontiers?<
>
>The 1949 Armistice lines were made null and void by Arab refusal to
>accept Israel's right to exist, even after losing in 1948, and even
>again in 1967. WHy should Israel go back to the  1949 Armistice lines.
>I don't understand.
>
>> >> >The League of Nations allowed Jews to settle ALL of Palestine WEST of
>> >> >the Jordan river.
>> >> >It did not exclude them from Gaza or what came to be called the "West
>> >> >Bank."
>>
>> >> The "settlement" is clearly revealed as a creeping annexation.<
>>
>> >That's up to the Arabs.
>>
>> No, it is up to the world at large, and to the USA in particular, to
>> curb the rapacious appetitite of the terrorist state known as Israel.
>> Its creation was clearly a mistake, and the day will come when the
>> world at large will correct that mistake.<
>
>It was no mistake. It was a fully legal, legitimate process and the
>JEws followed international law to the letter.
>
>> There isn't a more hated country on the planet than Israel. Very few
>> will mourn its demise.<
>
>I don't care about what anyone thinks over our right to exist. Our
>right  to exist is non-negotiable.

Since you believe in the "right of conquest", then you are saying "No,
Israel does not have a right to exist" because under those rules no
country has a right to exist.

>
>> > They could have made peace in 1947, split the
>> >county with the Jews, and avoided the war of 1948. After losing that
>> >war, they could have recognized Israel within the 1949 Armistice
>> >lines, and ended the war. But they did not. They could have chosen not
>> >to surround Israel and send in terrorists from 1949 through 1967, but
>> >did not. They could have made peace after losing again in 1967, and
>> >avoided the "settlements," but did not. So, every time they choose
>> >violence over peace, we take back a little more of our ancient
>> >homeland.  THey are really slow learners.  I think it's called
>> >"retarded."


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1954638 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:02:51 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 25, 9:52 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:25:13 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Oct 23, 9:43 pm, "Karl"  wrote:
>> >> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:ed61084d-1e8e-4134-b2d1-a21d28c6f01d@t41g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Oct 23, 1:32 am, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>> >> >> On Oct 19, 4:24 pm,jgarbuz wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > On Oct 18, 10:01 pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>> >> >> > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 14:27:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>> >> >> > > >> When my grand father was resistant, he was also called "terrorist"
>> >> >> > > >> by the nazis.
>> >> >> > > >> The Palestinians are not guilty of having their lands stolen and
>> >> >> > > >> occupied.<
>>
>> >> >> > > >There is  a VERY big difference. I assume your grandfather was
>> >> >> > > >defending his land from an illegal occupier who never had any right
>> >> >> > > >to
>> >> >> > > >it whatsoever. But as I have explained and shown on numerous
>> >> >> > > >occasions, the LEAGUE OF NATIONS authorized the right of the Jews to
>> >> >> > > >return and resettle their ancient homeland in 1920 and 1922. It was
>> >> >> > > >a
>> >> >> > > >legal decision that became  international law. Once again, I post
>> >> >> > > >the
>> >> >> > > >League of Nation decision, made at the San Remo conferences:
>>
>> >> >> > > The land wasn't for the League of Nations to give away. The whole
>> >> >> > > religious entitlement line after three thousand years is absolutely
>> >> >> > > absurd.<
>>
>> >> >> > The League created many national states out of the defeated empires of
>> >> >> > Germany, Austria-Hungary and Turkey. Prior to WWI, the rule was that
>> >> >> > if you conquered it, you owned it.  At least the creation of the
>> >> >> > League did take into account, to a certain degree, the desires of the
>> >> >> > local population in accordance to Woodrow Wilson's radical idea of
>> >> >> > "self-determination." But in the case of Palestine, they made an
>> >> >> > unusual decision, that a nation in exile for the first time in
>> >> >> > history, had the right to return and resettle its ancient homeland.
>> >> >> > You can disagree with that decision, but that became international
>> >> >> > law.
>> >> >> > It was  a unique decision to resolve a unique situation, because there
>> >> >> > was no other case of a surviving nation that had been so wholly
>> >> >> > dispossessed as was the case with the Jewish nation. Not only were
>> >> >> > they dispossessed, but dispersed as well, but never lost their
>> >> >> > identity or their belief in their return someday.  And it was
>> >> >> > particularly just, because it was a European empire, the Roman empire,
>> >> >> > that had caused the destruction, dispossession and dispersal of that
>> >> >> > nation. So it was only fair, especially since the Arabs, who had been
>> >> >> > under Turkish rule for 400 years, had not liberated themselves, but
>> >> >> > had been liberated by Allied, mostly British forces. ANd most of that
>> >> >> > territory was to become Arab states. So the Jews had a right to
>> >> >> > something too.
>>
>> >> >> So now that they have Israel they should be all exiled out of all
>> >> >> other countries and forced to live in the nation they stole land for.
>> >> >> THey have no reason to be in other countries now that they have their
>> >> >> Israel back.,
>>
>> >> > Why not also exile back all the English and Scots Irish settlers
>> >> > living on Indian soil too, while we're at it? Or Africans back to
>> >> > Africa? Jews have as much right to live in the settler countries, such
>> >> > as the US, Canada and Australia, as do all the other settler groups.
>>
>> >> The Jews in Israel are not settler groups. They are apartheid, brutal
>> >> occupiers.<
>>
>> >No, they're back in their ancestral homeland.
>>
>> That is just silly religious drivel from your ridiculous scrolls and
>> religious myths.<
>
>Nonsense, it is simply fact, backed by archaeology

LOL

None of the Judaic religious myths are backed by archaeology.


> and even science
>now, with DNA analysis.

Tell me another funny.



>Your arguments are based on nothing except
>pure Nazi and Islamofascist propaganda.

You're totally full of shit, garbageguz.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:25 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:05:08 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 25, 9:57 am, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:39:56 -0700 (PDT),jgarbuz
>>
>>
>....
>
>> >It was the LEague of Nations that finally decided, not Britain.
>>
>> The League of Nations was the creature of the large colonialist
>> powers.<
>
>So was the UN. Most of the Allies were colonial powers in 1945.
>
> It generally spoke in favour of those colonialist powers, much
>> like today's UN with its veto for the major powers.<
>
>So abolish UN, what the hell do I care? If the League meant nothing,
>then why should UN mean any more?
>>
>> Pontifications by the League of Nations are pretty much predictable
>> and meaningless.<
>
>Same with the UN.

You are correct. The UN is a joke, and a creation of the USA for its
own parochial agenda.

>
>>  The
>>
>> >LoN's accepted the Balfour Declaration and turned it into
>> >international law. Anyway, who did "Palestine" belong to? It was ruled
>> >by the Turks for 400 years, except for a brief interval by Egyptians.
>> >It was never ruled by the people living there. They were ALWAYS the
>> >subjects of some empire or external suzereignty. They never had a
>> >state of their own, and never saw themselves as an independent people,
>> >until the Jews decided they wanted back. Suddenly a "Palestinian
>> >people" was manufactured out of thin air with nothing really binding
>> >them other than their opposition to Jewish predominance.
>
>>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1955338 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 10:06:15 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 29, 11:53 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> And this is the way the Jewish system works.Palestinians who run away out of
>> fear from the Israelis have not be allowed to return to their homeland<
>
>Millions of ethnic Germans who were ethnically cleansed out of Eastern
>Europe haven't been allowed back either.

So you are using one of the greatest crimes in human history as your
basis to justify Israel's position. That makes me even more certain
that Israel is wrong and is based on evil.

The final word has not yet been spoken on the Polish and Czech
genocide of the indigenous German populations of eastern Europe
following WW2. Poles and Czechs will eventually suffer the same fate
as the precedents they set in Silesia and Pomerania. 





>But had the Arabs quickly
>made peace after they lost the war in 1949, it may have been possible
>to allow many back in. As is, Israel actually did allow some 50,000 or
>more come back over the years. But the Arabs refused to make peace,
>and now it is 60 years later, and those 725,000 refugees have grown
>into 10 million, most of whom have  never set foot in the place, so
>tough shit on them. BTW, when some Polish Jewish refugees tried to
>return after WWII, they were chased away by Gentiles who had occupied
>their properties, and some 47 were massacred.
>In addition, over 600,000 Jewish refugees from the Muslim countries
>(out of 900,000) were pushed out and were resettled in Israel. So
>there were TWO refugee problems created in 1948 by the Arab attack,
>resolved in effect by a population swap.  So that issue is dead and
>buried.
>
>
>
>
>
>> because they were dolt they did abandon their homeland.
>> Kurt Knoll
>>
>> "ZULU"  wrote in messagenews:ge9vm5$k7e$1@aioe.org...
>> >jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >> On Oct 25, 5:04 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>>
>> >>>jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >>>>On Oct 23, 9:09 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >>>>>If you respect that statement why don't you respect the UNO resolution
>> >>>>>to go back to 67's
>> >>>>>frontiers?<
>>
>> >>>>The League of Nations allowed Jews to settle ALL of Palestine WEST of
>> >>>>the Jordan river.
>> >>>>It did not exclude them from Gaza or what came to be called the "West
>> >>>>Bank."
>>
>> >>>UNO gave Palestinian a COUNTRY that Israel NEVER admitted.<
>>
>> >> Why did Jordan annex the West Bank in 1950? And why didn't it make
>> >> East Jerusalem the capital of Jordan or Palestine?
>> >> Why didn't the Jordanians give up the West Bank ,and the Egyptians
>> >> give up Gaza, to create a Palestinian state in 1949?
>> >> Why do you blame Israel for the lack of a Palestinian state from 1949
>> >> to 1967? I don't understand.
>>
>> > Diversion. The fact is that when Israel was created by UNO in 1948 a
>> > Palestinian state had to be established at the same time under
>> > international rules.
>> > Isreal while claiming its legitimacy from UNO resolution NEVER respected
>> > the other part of the deal and even acted AGAINST complementary UNO
>> > resolutions.
>> > NOt to mention the crime against humanity perpetrated on a systematic
>> > ethnic cleansing into its new frontiers.<
>
>A pile of Bullshit. Jordan and EGypt had the WEst Bank, East Jerusalem
>and Gaza in their hands from 1949-1967. Peddle your bullshit to your
>brainless peasants.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1955340 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:01:13 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 29, 3:15 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:1c46c932-d466-45fb-89e9-7820f2f20b2d@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Oct 29, 1:34 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> >> Why should the Arabs make Peace they are the once who did get Roped.<
>>
>> > Got what, ROPED? Is that cowboy talk?   No, the head of the Arab
>> > revolt agreed to the Zionist programme, provided the other Arabs got
>> > their independence:
>>
>> Did he have any other choice. The main decision was made by the Americans<
>
>Not the Americans, but rather the British and the French, who defeated
>the Ottoman empire. He needed, and got, Weizmann's support in pushing
>Arab claims for independence at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919.
>After all, the Ottoman empire was defeated primarily by the British,
>and they could just as well have kept the whole place as a colony,
>just like India. But it was Wilson who was pushing the promise of
>"self-determination"  that forced the other Allies to concede
>independence to conquered territories.
>
>> did the Arabs have any say in it.<
>
>Not much, but then, when did any conquered people have much say as
>what the conquerors do with their territory?

The haughty Israelis of today could easily be the conquered of
tomorrow. They will have no sympathy from the rest of the world, since
they will only be reaping what they heaped on others.

>
>
>
>> > Agreement Between Emir Feisal and Dr. Weizmann
>>
>> > 3 January, 1919
>>
>> > Introduction
>>
>> > Following the First World War, Emir Feisal,   son of Sherif Hussein
>> > (Husayn) of Mecca, and the leader of the Arab movement, met in Aqaba
>> > with Dr. Chaim Weizmann, the head of the Zionist Commission to
>> > Palestine. Later, at the Paris Peace Conference, the two negotiated
>> > and signed the following agreement, which spoke of full cooperation in
>> > the development of the independent Arab state in present-day Syria and
>> > Iraq (as promised by the British to Feisal) and the Jewish home in
>> > Palestine (from the Balfour Declaration), and encouraging "the
>> > immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale".
>>
>> > The agreement was not carried out, mostly due to the change in Allied
>> > policy regarding the Arab State which Feisal had planned to establish.
>>
>> > Agreement Between Emir Feisal and Dr. Weizmann
>> > 3 January, 1919
>>
>> > His Royal Highness the Emir Feisal, representing and acting on behalf
>> > of the Arab Kingdom of Hedjaz, and Dr. Chaim Weizmann, representing
>> > and acting on behalf of the Zionist Organization, mindful of the
>> > racial kinship and ancient bonds existing between the Arabs and the
>> > Jewish people, and realizing that the surest means of working out the
>> > consummation of their natural aspirations is through the closest
>> > possible collaboration in the development of the Arab State and
>> > Palestine, and being desirous further of confirming the good
>> > understanding which exists between them, have agreed upon the
>> > following:
>>
>> > Articles:
>>
>> > Article I
>> > The Arab State and Palestine (my note: "Jewish Palestine") in all
>> > their relations and undertakings shall be controlled by the most
>> > cordial goodwill and understanding, and to this end Arab and Jewish
>> > duly accredited agents shall be established and maintained in the
>> > respective territories.
>>
>> > Article II
>> > Immediately following the completion of the deliberations of the Peace
>> > Conference, the definite boundaries between the Arab State and
>> > Palestine shall be determined by a Commission to be agreed upon by the
>> > parties hereto.
>>
>> > Article III
>> > In the establishment of the Constitution and Administration of
>> > Palestine, all such measures shall be adopted as will afford the
>> > fullest guarantees for carrying into effect the British Government's
>> > Declaration of the 2nd of November, 1917.
>>
>> > Article IV
>> > All necessary measures shall be taken to encourage and stimulate
>> > immigration of Jews into Palestine on a large scale, and as quickly as
>> > possible to settle Jewish immigrants upon the land through closer
>> > settlement and intensive cultivation of the soil. In taking such
>> > measures the Arab peasant and tenant farmers shall be protected in
>> > their rights and shall be assisted in forwarding their economic
>> > development.
>>
>> > Article V
>> > No regulation or law shall be made prohibiting or interfering in any
>> > way with the free exercise of religion; and further, the free exercise
>> > and enjoyment of religious profession and worship, without
>> > discrimination or preference, shall forever be allowed. No religious
>> > test shall ever be required for the exercise of civil or political
>> > rights.
>>
>> > Article VI
>> > The Mohammedan Holy Places shall be under Mohammedan control.
>>
>> > Article VII
>> > The Zionist Organization proposes to send to Palestine a Commission of
>> > experts to make a survey of the economic possibilities of the country,
>> > and to report upon the best means for its development. The Zionist
>> > Organization will place the aforementioned Commission at the disposal
>> > of the Arab State for the purpose of a survey of the economic
>> > possibilities of the Arab State and to report upon the best means for
>> > its development. The Zionist Organization will use its best efforts to
>> > assist the Arab State in providing the means for developing the
>> > natural resources and economic possibilities thereof.
>>
>> > Article VIII
>> > The parties hereto agree to act in complete accord and harmony on all
>> > matters embraced herein before the Peace Congress.
>>
>> > Article IX
>> > Any matters of dispute which may arise between the contracting parties
>> > hall be referred to the British Government for arbitration.
>>
>> > Given under our hand at London, England, the third day of January, one
>> > thousand nine hundred and nineteen
>> > Chaim Weizmann                      Feisal Ibn-Hussein
>>
>> > Reservation by the Emir Feisal
>> > If the Arabs are established as I have asked in my manifesto of 4
>> > January, addressed to the British Secretary of State for Foreign
>> > Affairs, I will carry out what is written in this agreement. If
>> > changes are made, I cannot be answerable for failing to carry out this
>> > agreement.
>>
>> >> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:18dbc897-4744-415a-8f0f-f3512fe1af60@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > On Oct 29, 11:53 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> >> >> And this is the way the Jewish system works.Palestinians who run away
>> >> >> out
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> fear from the Israelis have not be allowed to return to their
>> >> >> homeland<
>>
>> >> > Millions of ethnic Germans who were ethnically cleansed out of Eastern
>> >> > Europe haven't been allowed back either. But had the Arabs quickly
>> >> > made peace after they lost the war in 1949, it may have been possible
>> >> > to allow many back in. As is, Israel actually did allow some 50,000 or
>> >> > more come back over the years. But the Arabs refused to make peace,
>> >> > and now it is 60 years later, and those 725,000 refugees have grown
>> >> > into 10 million, most of whom have  never set foot in the place, so
>> >> > tough shit on them. BTW, when some Polish Jewish refugees tried to
>> >> > return after WWII, they were chased away by Gentiles who had occupied
>> >> > their properties, and some 47 were massacred.
>> >> > In addition, over 600,000 Jewish refugees from the Muslim countries
>> >> > (out of 900,000) were pushed out and were resettled in Israel. So
>> >> > there were TWO refugee problems created in 1948 by the Arab attack,
>> >> > resolved in effect by a population swap.  So that issue is dead and
>> >> > buried.
>>
>> >> >> because they were dolt they did abandon their homeland.
>> >> >> Kurt Knoll
>>
>> >> >> "ZULU"  wrote in messagenews:ge9vm5$k7e$1@aioe.org...
>> >> >> >jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> On Oct 25, 5:04 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>On Oct 23, 9:09 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>jgarbuzwrote:
>>
>> >> >> >>>>>If you respect that statement why don't you respect the UNO
>> >> >> >>>>>resolution
>> >> >> >>>>>to go back to 67's
>> >> >> >>>>>frontiers?<
>>
>> >> >> >>>>The League of Nations allowed Jews to settle ALL of Palestine WEST
>> >> >> >>>>of
>> >> >> >>>>the Jordan river.
>> >> >> >>>>It did not exclude them from Gaza or what came to be called the
>> >> >> >>>>"West
>> >> >> >>>>Bank."
>>
>> >> >> >>>UNO gave Palestinian a COUNTRY that Israel NEVER admitted.<
>>
>> >> >> >> Why did Jordan annex the West Bank in 1950? And why didn't it make
>> >> >> >> East Jerusalem the capital of Jordan or Palestine?
>> >> >> >> Why didn't the Jordanians give up the West Bank ,and the Egyptians
>> >> >> >> give up Gaza, to create a Palestinian state in 1949?
>> >> >> >> Why do you blame Israel for the lack of a Palestinian state from
>> >> >> >> 1949
>> >> >> >> to 1967? I don't understand.
>>
>> >> >> > Diversion. The fact is that when Israel was created by UNO in 1948 a
>> >> >> > Palestinian state had to be established at the same time under
>> >> >> > international rules.
>> >> >> > Isreal while claiming its legitimacy from UNO resolution NEVER
>> >> >> > respected
>> >> >> > the other part of the deal and even acted AGAINST complementary UNO
>> >> >> > resolutions.
>> >> >> > NOt to mention the crime against humanity perpetrated on a
>> >> >> > systematic
>> >> >> > ethnic cleansing into its new frontiers.<
>>
>> >> > A pile of Bullshit. Jordan and EGypt had the WEst Bank, East Jerusalem
>> >> > and Gaza in their hands from 1949-1967. Peddle your bullshit to your
>> >> > brainless peasants.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1955341 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:36:17 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"I'll Always Be Here"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B46E2195230Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:vs8Ok.4954$fF3.1529@edtnps83:
>>
>>> From 1945 onward the world was made believe the Jews have always lived
>>> in Palestine.
>>
>> From kunt knoll we are made to believe the Palestinians have always lived
>> in Israel.
>>
>>
>>> Was it true the Palestinians were only nomads.
>>
>> Yes.
>
>I wonder why nobody's trying to give it back to the Turks, who were, after 
>all, the owners for centuries.

The Israelis are simply the new Turks, a colonialist entity that
really ought to be removed.

>
>-pk
>
> 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1955343 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:12:47 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 29, 3:22 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> "I'll Always Be Here"  wrote in messagenews:Xns9B4668BF04A21Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>
>> > "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> >news:VF%Nk.4854$%%2.84@edtnps82:
>>
>> >> And this is the way the Jewish system works.Palestinians who run away
>> >> out of fear from the Israelis have not be allowed to return to their
>> >> homeland because they were dolt they did abandon their homeland.
>>
>> > They couldn't abandon their homeland, it was never theirs to abandon.
>>
>> Get real guy the Palestinians have always been there. <
>
>No such people ever existed until the 20th century. An assortment of
>occupiers generically called "Arabs" have lived there for a long time,
>but they are in no way indigenous to the country. Of all the people
>who have ever lived there, the Jews are the ones with the most claims
>and right to the country.

That is utter nonsense. Jews had a minor state there for a total time
of 258 years almost three thousand years ago. They have little more
legitimate claim to the area than do Hottentots or Ubangis.








 ANd this is why the League of Nations
>restored the legal rights of the Jewish National Home to be
>reestablished.
>
>>The Jewish majority
>> never was. <
>
>You're either stupid or a liar or both.
>
>>The first contingent of Jews did not settle in Palestine till
>> about 1884. <
>
>Nonsense. Those were the JEwish returnees. Mostly the descendants of
>Jews who had been forced to leave during and after the Roman
>occupation. But there were Jews who never left as well.
>
>>In the population count in 1910 only 10 % percent of the
>> population was Jewish and this did include the Russian immigrants from 1884.<
>
>Does not matter one whit. The Jewish exiles from Russia and Yemen and
>other places began to return to their national homeland in the 1880s
>to join Jews who were already there. It's as if most of the American
>Indians had been pushed out of the country centuries earlier, and had
>began to return to reclaim their homeland.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:27 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Wave of hatred' warning as attacks on Jews hits record high
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On Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:32:35 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Oct 30, 4:20 am, "I'll Always Be Here"
> wrote:
>> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote in news:TLGdnerBo4ft-
>> ZTUnZ2dnUVZ_qPin...@giganews.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>> >news:5fbdf625-4ca7-48ea-af6a-e4790158c2e3@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Oct 29, 3:22 pm, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> >>> "I'll Always Be Here"  wrote in
>> >>> messagenews:Xns9B4668BF04A21Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>>
>> >>> > "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> >>> >news:VF%Nk.4854$%%2.84@edtnps82:
>>
>> >>> >> And this is the way the Jewish system works.Palestinians who run
>> away
>> >>> >> out of fear from the Israelis have not be allowed to return to
>> their
>> >>> >> homeland because they were dolt they did abandon their homeland.
>>
>> >>> > They couldn't abandon their homeland, it was never theirs to
>> abandon.
>>
>> >>> Get real guy the Palestinians have always been there. <
>>
>> >> No such people ever existed until the 20th century. An assortment of
>> >> occupiers generically called "Arabs" have lived there for a long time,
>> >> but they are in no way indigenous to the country.
>>
>> > Far and away more indigenous than the hebes, garbageguz.<
>
>What does that mean, "more indigenous," you ignorant oaf? A people
>either are, or aren't indigenous.
>Even the Canaanites there before the HEbrews weren't indigenous.  But
>the Hebrews were the only ones to create a sovereign state in that
>land. All the rest were just flotsam and jetsam.

Ancient Israel was a brief flash-in-a-pan of little historical
significance.

>
>> So you are admitting they were nomads<
>
>All human tribes were nomadic at one point back in time. They migrated
>out of Africa. The Hebrews settled in that land and became an agrarian
>society. The ARabs remained mostly nomadic.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Oct 31 01:33:27 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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On Tue, 28 Oct 2008 15:48:06 +0100, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>Foreign Ministry officials have recently voices their concern over the 
>growing anti-Israel mood in Germany. Although German Chancellor Angela 
>Merkel is considered one of the most prominent pro-Israel leaders in the 
>European Union and in the world, the public opinion in her country appears 
>to be completely different.
>A senior state official told Ynet that although the official Germany remains 
>pro-Israel, the public atmosphere in the country is affecting the Merkel 
>government's attitude, particularly in terms of the Iranian nuclear plan.
>
>Israel's great fear is that the increasing anti-Israel mood in the German 
>society, economy and media will eventually influence the German government's 
>policy on this issue for the worse.
>
>
>"Germans view Israel - and Iran - as a great danger to world peace. German 
>tourists don't visit Israel, while the number of tourists from neighboring 
>Poland exceeds the number of visitors from Germany," said a source in 
>Jerusalem.
>
>
>"The Germans are filled with prejudice against Israel. Our PR delegates are 
>pulling their hair out in frustration when they meet young and old people 
>there. More than once they hear remarks like, 'That's not your country,' 
>'It's a shame that a Jewish country was established on stolen land,' 'Israel 
>is treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews' and 'We are 
>equally responsible towards the Palestinians as we are towards the Jews.'"
>
>
>Anat Sultan-Dadon of the Israeli Embassy in Berlin recently sent a telegram 
>reporting a meeting with the "Israel-Germany friendship youth forum", during 
>which German youths expressed their reservations over Iran's isolation, in 
>spite of the Islamic republic's attempts to obtain a nuclear weapon.
>
>
>"If the mighty have succumbed, how shall the weak emerge unscathed in 
>Germany?" said the state official in response to the telegram.
>
>Where did promises go?
>
>
>Israeli delegates in Berlin have been aware of the changes in the German 
>public's attitude for some time now, and Foreign Ministry discussions have 
>been dealing with the concern over the development of similar trends in 
>other European countries.
>
>The Israeli PR activities have failed to bring about a significant change. 
>Merkel, who brought eight of her government ministers to Israel as part of 
>the Jewish state's 60th anniversary celebrations, also failed to change the 
>atmosphere.
>
>
>"The outrageous thing is that Germany of all countries, with its unusual 
>moral history, is the weakest link among the three largest European 
>countries (Germany, France and Britain) in terms of toughening the sanctions 
>on Iran," said an Israeli source, noting that German companies have been 
>trading with Iran in multi-billion-euro deals.
>
>
>"Germany favors dialogue and persuasion, even when Iran talks about 
>destroying the Jewish state and builds a nuclear bomb. Other Germans prefer 
>to view Iran's poisonous and anti-Semitic attacks at the UN and on other 
>stages, not as anti-Semitism but as hostility towards Israel.
>
>
>"Why aren't the Germans implementing their promise given 60 years ago to 
>fight any type of anti-Semitism?"
>
>"Although the large German parties promised in their platforms to guarantee 
>Israel's security, Germany did not lose its temper when a country which is a 
>member of the UN called for Israel's destruction at the General Assembly.
>
>
>"There were no mass protests, no real shock in the German media, and not one 
>Iranian cultural center was closed," the source said.
>
>"Germany is becoming more 'European' in its attitude towards Israel. The 
>European umbrella is very convenient for the German conscience, as the 
>German-Israeli dialogue often turns into a three-way dialogue.
>
>"The concern for the Palestinians becomes the German conscience's best 
>'washing powder'. Because if the Israelis are so bad and evil, perhaps we, 
>the descendants of that German generation, can look at ourselves in the 
>mirror with greater comfort and no longer feel ashamed?"

LOL

I've never felt ashamed and I have nothing for which to be ashamed. I
do not apologize for my German ethnicity, even though people in
Germany have been trained and conditioned by half a century of
anti-German propaganda to do just that.




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