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From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:42 EDT 2008
Article: 1937054 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gas chamber story is just war propaganda. Where were the air shelters at Birkenau?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:09:54 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:5i2ob4loiakpke9fnr9n3kf3fj9r0daej7@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:22:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In 8/29/2008 12:46 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message
>>>> news:BKHtk.60018$C65.33029@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:35 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:09:44 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Truth Will Out"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:wHqsk.31137$IK1.29490@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>>> "Philip Mathews"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:271ba47b-74ee-405b-bee1-43a31643ffce@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 11:26 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article , ZULU 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> The one that lists no less than 900 stokers working in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kremas.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why does one camp require such a number of stokers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can imagine that some SS guards and officers were in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of those people It was also an hospital with SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> medics near the Kremas as well as Zentral Sauna where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many SS were in charge of the control.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And you're asserting -- without a shred of evidence --
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the SS used the Krema cellars as "air-aid shelters"
>>>>>>>>>>>> for them. No testimony, no document, no logical thought
>>>>>>>>>>>> process to support this insanity. But you don't care, do
>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>> LOL. NO document showed by Pressac, a slight nuance...
>>>>>>>>>> No document, period.
>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't we have any document concerning the proved
>>>>>>>>>>> material transformation of the morgue of Krema I in an air
>>>>>>>>>>> shelter?
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0156.htm
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0157.htm
>>>>>>>>>>> How can you assume that nothing could be find among 80,000 
>>>>>>>>>>> documents
>>>>>>>>>>> of construction available?
>>>>>>>>>> So your "proof" is that the document *may* exist?
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it gets even better -- just yesterday, you said that the
>>>>>>>>>>>> entrance to the cellar was "too small" for it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> serve as a gas chamber. But now you're saying it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> large enough for people who have to enter an air-raid
>>>>>>>>>>>> shelter in the maximum possible speed.
>>>>>>>>>>> The SS weren't 2000 on that zone, moron.
>>>>>>>>>> You're saying there were so many SS around that they required
>>>>>>>>>>  two huge "air-raid shelters", and then you're saying that
>>>>>>>>>> the doors of the "air-raid shelters" were too small for
>>>>>>>>>> people to enter in a hurry. It's quite amusing to see you
>>>>>>>>>> somersault back and forth, little one. RJ.
>>>>>>>>> It is amusing to observe your desperate tentative to make that
>>>>>>>>> little door more practical to "gas 2000 people" than to serve
>>>>>>>>> as entrance to a second stage of SS protection.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Remember that the main entrance to underground was a fair large
>>>>>>>>> stairway to the morgue 2 that you insist in calling "undressing
>>>>>>>>> room". The entry to the second room would be without rush. And
>>>>>>>>> the moron Zulu would have us believe this large stairway to a 
>>>>>>>>> "morgue"
>>>>>>>>> would be needed to carry the corpses to the morgue? Makes sensel,
>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>> Another dyslexic Holohuxter raises his head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is it with you people and your lack of education and
>>>>>>>> ability? Is whining, lying and hurling invective all you've got?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt I'll bother with you from here on in, Mathews. You're too
>>>>>>>> stupid to bother with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TTFN.
>>>>>>> I see you've met Philthy Mathews. Gobshite extraordinaire, him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of us have the little wanker killfiled.
>>>>>> I figure that I will follow suit and dump Phil in the garbage bin.
>>>>> Gads, he must be kicking your collective asses for you to flee so 
>>>>> quickly.
>>>>
>>>> Christ, gord. Philthy only possesses a half dozen or so standard, 
>>>> proforma
>>>> responses. One becomes quite bored with him very quickly.
>>>
>>>Translation: He decimates you with facts.
>>
>> Phil has yet to present his first "fact".
>> All he slings is the standard industry dreck that we have all seen a
>> thousand times previously.
>
>Which is exactly why most of us ignore the silly little twat.
>
>Keep your eye out for his dobbelganger, Roger, who as coincidentally 
>returned to posting after Philthy's identical absence from this group.
>
>
>>Be assured that the bullshit does not get
>> transformed into truth by frequent repetition.
>
>Be careful, Johannes. You're about to be labelled ;-)

Name-calling is their speciality. It is all they have.

>
>
>
>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:42 EDT 2008
Article: 1937055 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gas chamber story is just war propaganda. Where were the air shelters at Birkenau?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:27:57 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/1/2008 11:41 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:22:41 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2008 10:09 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:51:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:35 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:09:44 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Truth Will Out"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>> news:wHqsk.31137$IK1.29490@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>>> "Philip Mathews"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>> news:271ba47b-74ee-405b-bee1-43a31643ffce@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 11:26 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article , ZULU 
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> The one that lists no less than 900 stokers working in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Kremas. Why does one camp require such a number of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> stokers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can imagine that some SS guards and officers were in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of those people It was also an hospital with SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>> medics near the Kremas as well as Zentral Sauna where
>>>>>>>>>>>>> many SS were in charge of the control.
>>>>>>>>>>>> And you're asserting -- without a shred of evidence --
>>>>>>>>>>>> that the SS used the Krema cellars as "air-aid shelters"
>>>>>>>>>>>> for them. No testimony, no document, no logical thought
>>>>>>>>>>>> process to support this insanity. But you don't care, do
>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>> LOL. NO document showed by Pressac, a slight nuance...
>>>>>>>>>> No document, period.
>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't we have any document concerning the proved
>>>>>>>>>>> material transformation of the morgue of Krema I in an air
>>>>>>>>>>> shelter?
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0156.htm 
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0157.htm
>>>>>>>>>>> How can you assume that nothing could be find among 80,000 
>>>>>>>>>>> documents of construction available?
>>>>>>>>>> So your "proof" is that the document *may* exist?
>>>>>>>>>>>> And it gets even better -- just yesterday, you said that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the entrance to the cellar was "too small" for it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> serve as a gas chamber. But now you're saying it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> large enough for people who have to enter an air-raid
>>>>>>>>>>>> shelter in the maximum possible speed.
>>>>>>>>>>> The SS weren't 2000 on that zone, moron.
>>>>>>>>>> You're saying there were so many SS around that they required
>>>>>>>>>>  two huge "air-raid shelters", and then you're saying that
>>>>>>>>>> the doors of the "air-raid shelters" were too small for
>>>>>>>>>> people to enter in a hurry. It's quite amusing to see you
>>>>>>>>>> somersault back and forth, little one. RJ.
>>>>>>>>> It is amusing to observe your desperate tentative to make that
>>>>>>>>> little door more practical to "gas 2000 people" than to serve
>>>>>>>>> as entrance to a second stage of SS protection.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Remember that the main entrance to underground was a fair large
>>>>>>>>> stairway to the morgue 2 that you insist in calling "undressing
>>>>>>>>> room". The entry to the second room would be without rush. And
>>>>>>>>> the moron Zulu would have us believe this large stairway to a 
>>>>>>>>> "morgue" would be needed to carry the corpses to the morgue? 
>>>>>>>>> Makes sensel, right?
>>>>>>>> Another dyslexic Holohuxter raises his head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is it with you people and your lack of education and
>>>>>>>> ability? Is whining, lying and hurling invective all you've got?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I doubt I'll bother with you from here on in, Mathews. You're too
>>>>>>>> stupid to bother with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TTFN.
>>>>>>> I see you've met Philthy Mathews. Gobshite extraordinaire, him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of us have the little wanker killfiled.
>>>>>> I figure that I will follow suit and dump Phil in the garbage bin.
>>>>> Gads, he must be kicking your collective asses for you to flee so quickly.
>>>> You make no sense, Gord.
>>> Only to idiots like you.
>> 
>> The only idiot around these parts is you, Gordie.
>
>Your admission of defeat is noted.  Back to troll school for you.

You're such a jackass, Gordie. You haven't said anything worth saying
in the last hundred or so messages, so I suspect that you're operating
on empty.

I'm fairly patient, so I'm going to wait just a little longer before
putting you on a filter. My time is too valuable to waste on your
barrage on silly one-liners.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1937056 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:33:48 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/1/2008 11:08 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:37:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2008 10:18 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:07:40 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:42 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:06:56 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"  
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting McFee can one see the aging of your book to analyze its
>>>>>>>  age.
>>>>>> It seems that McFee's understanding of a German text is pretty 
>>>>>> primitive.
>>>>> It's a lot better than yours.
>>>> LOL, Gord, your bluster and bullshit won't get you out of this one.
>>> I have no need of either.  I merely posted a quote that you said didn't 
>>> exist.
>> 
>> I didn't say that it didn't exist, merely that it probably didn't say
>> what you claimed it said. I was correct. That is why the passage
>> didn't jump out at me when I read the book. Your interpretations are
>> putting words into the author's mouth that he didn't say and that he
>> probably didn't intend.
>
>What interpretation?  I merely quoted it.

No Gordie, you quoted an irrelevant passage as "proof" of the intent
to institute mass gassings of Jews. The passage doesn't say or even
indirectly imply that. You are the same as some stupid fundie with
their ridiculous interpretations of scripture.



From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1937057 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:35:24 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/1/2008 11:16 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:39:05 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2008 10:26 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:04:13 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/25/2008 10:06 AM, Kurt Knoll wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:phlsk.50253$6p1.32754@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>>>>> On 8/24/2008 5:58 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:57:27 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "RJ11"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:g8m37l$loo$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt Knoll 
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What is it you are trying to proof here. It was the Jews
>>>>>>>>>>> who did declare a finical war against Germany.
>>>>>>>>>> Already in 1925,  Adolf Hitler,  in "Mein Kampf",  expressed
>>>>>>>>>> his will to murder Jews with poison gas.  So,  when he became
>>>>>>>>>> the ruler of Germany in 1933,  some Jews called to boycott
>>>>>>>>>> German goods.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you sure this is true.
>>>>>>>> I doubt that it is true.
>>>>>>> You are wrong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I own an original German printing of the book.
>>>>>>> So do I.  However, I have read my copy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I would like to know is where to find this item in the book.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> H�tte man zu Kriegsbeginn und w�hrend des Krieges einmal zw�lf-
>>>>>>> oder f�nfzehntausend dieser hebr�ischen Volksverderber so unter
>>>>>>> Giftgas gehalten, wie Hunderttausende unserer allerbesten deutschen
>>>>>>> Arbeiter aus allen Schichten und Berufen es im Felde erdulden
>>>>>>> mu�ten, dann w�re das Millionenopfer der Front nicht vergeblich
>>>>>>> gewesen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Mein Kampf", Vol II, page 772
>>>> There isn't more than one volume,
>>> Yes there are.  Zwei B�nde.
>> 
>> The book I have is a single volume, although it does actually seem
>> that in 1925 and 1927 there had been two volumes for a short time.
>> Those are clearly not the copies you have, so you're merely trying to
>> obfuscate the issue, as is your usual tactic.
>
>Ah, so you were wrong again.  Thanks for the confirmation.

Give it up Gordie. If I make a mistake, I will generally admit it,
unlike you, Gordie, and your endless conveyor belt of horse-shit.

I do make mistakes from time to time, but not very many.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1937058 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:38:17 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/1/2008 11:20 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:43:36 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/29/2008 10:33 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:08:39 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:39 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:29:18 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/24/2008 5:58 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:57:27 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> "RJ11"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:g8m37l$loo$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt
>>>>>>>>>> Knoll  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> What is it you are trying to proof here. It was the
>>>>>>>>>>> Jews who did declare a finical war against Germany.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Already in 1925,  Adolf Hitler,  in "Mein Kampf",
>>>>>>>>>> expressed his will to murder Jews with poison gas.
>>>>>>>>>> So,  when he became the ruler of Germany in 1933,
>>>>>>>>>> some Jews called to boycott German goods.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Are you sure this is true.
>>>>>>>> I doubt that it is true.
>>>>>>> You are wrong.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I own an original German printing of the book.
>>>>>>> So do I.  However, I have read my copy.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> What I would like to know is where to find this item in
>>>>>>>> the book.
>>>>>>> H�tte man zu Kriegsbeginn und w�hrend des Krieges einmal
>>>>>>> zw�lf- oder f�nfzehntausend dieser hebr�ischen
>>>>>>> Volksverderber so unter Giftgas gehalten, wie
>>>>>>> Hunderttausende unserer allerbesten deutschen Arbeiter aus 
>>>>>>> allen Schichten und Berufen es im Felde erdulden mu�ten,
>>>>>>> dann w�re das Millionenopfer der Front nicht vergeblich
>>>>>>> gewesen.
>>>>>> You are a moron, McFee. Hitler is describing his own
>>>>>> experiences and those of his fellow soldiers in an allied
>>>>>> poison gas attack. The passage is light-years away from
>>>>>> suggesting an extermination policy against Jews. This type of
>>>>>> distortion seems to be typical of the holocaust� industry.
>>>>> Get someone to translate it for you, dipstick.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't need some English-speaking fart like you to interpret
>>>> German texts for me, arsehole.
>>> Eww... struck a nerve did I?
>> 
>> It just became really clear that I'm dealing with a clueless
>> arsehole, that's all.
>
>Then stop talking to yourself.
>
>> You keep meddling in conversations I'm having
>> with others here. Kindly fuck off and mind your own business.
>
>I'll post where I choose, moron.
>> 
>> If I want your input, I'll ask for it, otherwise stick to trading 
>> holocaust� fables with McFay and the rest of your crew.
>
>Well, well.  Didn't take long to chase you away.  It seems that all you
>clowns are expert cowards.

That is another of your endless trail of non-sequiturs. I'm starting
to get the feeling that you're suffering from senile dementia.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:44 EDT 2008
Article: 1937059 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gas chamber story is just war propaganda. Sonderkommandos are ALL  LIARS!!!!
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:26:55 -0400
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Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.revisionism:1937059

On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:25:38 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/1/2008 11:52 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:14:48 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 8/30/2008 5:58 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 17:17:01 +0200, ZULU  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Philip Mathews wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Aug 29, 4:32 pm, ZULU  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>>>>>>>> What I observe is that you put assertions without any consistant fact
>>>>>>>>> or document to support it.
>>>>>>>>   Really,  lulu?
>>>>>>>>   Where is that document about the alleged "conversion" of cellar 1
>>>>>>>> to an "air-raid shelter"?
>>>>>>> Material evidences
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1- requirement of 1 gas tight door (1 m x 1,90 m)
>>>>>> Compatible with a homicidal gas chamber, not a room labeled as a
>>>>>> "morgue".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of the known air-raid shelters at Auschwitz had gas tight doors.
>>>>> Proofs?
>>>> An air-raid shelter with doors that are not gas tight would be utterly
>>>> useless, since the vast majority of people who died in air attacks
>>>> died from noxious gases produced by the fire, rather than from the
>>>> fire itself or from blast effects.
>>> ROTFL!
>>>
>>> Absolute rubbish.
>> 
>> That's what fills your head, Gordie. Ask any firefighter to alleviate
>> your abysmal ignorance on the subject of fire deaths.
>
>Troll someone else.

You really are a demented clown.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:44 EDT 2008
Article: 1937060 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 19:50:58 -0700 (PDT), Michael Price
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 11:16�pm, Topaz  wrote:
>> By Mark Weber
>>
>> Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>> and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>> Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>> December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>> violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>> war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>> declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>> vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>> intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>> provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>> against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>> well known.[1]
>>
>> Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>> for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>> Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>> outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>> his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>> Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>
>> Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>> had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>> history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>
>> This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>> Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>> in September 1939.
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>> These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>> on the Second World War.
>
>
>  And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>agreement he
>ever signed 

You're confusing him with Bush and other American presidents.

>and invaded countries left and right,

Germany hasn't attacked nearly as many countries as the USA has over
its short and violent history.

>including countries
>that had already
>given up territory to placate the Germans?

Name a couple if you can.

>  No, in fact nothing could
>have caused a
>war in Europe without Hitler specifically seeking complete domination
>of it.

The war in Europe was caused by Britain trying vainly to make
Versailles stick and by American world-domination plans for which
Germany presented an obstacle.

>>
>> Poland had refused to even negotiate over self-determination for the
>> German city of Danzig and the ethnic German minority in the so-called
>> Polish Corridor. Hitler felt compelled to resort to arms when he did
>> in response to a growing Polish campaign of terror and dispossession
>> against the one and a half million ethnic Germans under Polish rule.
>> In my view, if ever a military action was justified, it was the German
>> campaign against Poland in 1939.
>>
>> Poland's headstrong refusal to negotiate was made possible because of
>> a fateful blank check guarantee of military backing from Britain-a
>> pledge that ultimately proved completely worthless to the hapless
>> Poles. Considering the lightning swiftness of the victorious German
>> campaign, it is difficult to realize today that the Polish government
>> did not at all fear war with Germany. Poland's leaders foolishly
>> believed that German might was only an illusion. They were convinced
>> that their troops would occupy Berlin itself within a few weeks and
>> add further German territories to an enlarged Polish state. It is also
>> important to keep in mind that the purely localized conflict between
>> Germany and Poland was only transformed into a Europe-wide
>> conflagration by the British and French declarations of war against
>> Germany.
>>
>> On 9 February 1938, the Polish Ambassador in Washington, Count Jerzy
>> Potocki, reported to the Foreign Minister in Warsaw on the Jewish role
>> in making American foreign policy:
>>
>> The pressure of the Jews on President Roosevelt and on the State
>> Department is becoming ever more powerful ...
>>
>> ... The Jews are right now the leaders in creating a war psychosis
>> which would plunge the entire world into war and bring about general
>> catastrophe. This mood is becoming more and more apparent.
>> in their definition of democratic states, the Jews have also created
>> real chaos: they have mixed together the idea of democracy and
>> communism and have above all raised the banner of burning hatred
>> against Nazism.
>>
>> This hatred has become a frenzy. It is propagated everywhere and by
>> every means: in theaters, in the cinema, and in the press. The Germans
>> are portrayed as a nation living under the arrogance of Hitler which
>> wants to conquer the whole world and drown all of humanity in an ocean
>> of blood.
>>
>> In conversations with Jewish press representatives I have repeatedly
>> come up against the inexorable and convinced view that war is
>> inevitable. This international Jewry exploits every means of
>> propaganda to oppose any tendency towards any kind of consolidation
>> and understanding between nations. In this way, the conviction is
>> growing steadily but surely in public opinion here that the Germans
>> and their satellites, in the form of fascism, are enemies who must be
>> subdued by the 'democratic world.'
>>
>> Ambassador Potocki's report from Washington of 9 January 1939 dealt in
>> large part with President Roosevelt's annual address to Congress:
>> President Roosevelt acts on the assumption that the dictatorial
>> governments, above all Germany and Japan, only understand a policy of
>> force. Therefore he has decided to react to any future blows by
>> matching them. This has been demonstrated by the most recent measures
>> of the United States.
>>
>> The American public is subject to an ever more alarming propaganda
>> which is under Jewish influence and continuously conjures up the
>> specter of the danger of war. Because of this the Americans have
>> strongly altered their views on foreign policy problems, in comparison
>> with last year.
>>
>> Of all the documents in this collection, the most revealing is
>> probably the secret report by Ambassador Potocki of 12 January 1939
>> which dealt with the domestic situation in the United States. This
>> report is given here in full:
>>
>> The feeling now prevailing in the United States is marked by a growing
>> hatred of Fascism and, above all, of Chancellor Hitler and everything
>> connected with Nazism. Propaganda is mostly in the hands of the Jews
>> who control almost 100 percent radio, film, daily and periodical
>> press. Although this propaganda is extremely coarse and presents
>> Germany as black as possible-above all religious persecution and
>> concentration camps are exploited-this propaganda is nevertheless
>> extremely effective since the public here is completely ignorant and
>> knows nothing of the situation in Europe...
>>
>> It is interesting to note that in this extremely well-planned campaign
>> which is conducted above all against National Socialism, Soviet Russia
>> is almost completely excluded. If mentioned at all, it is only in a
>> friendly manner and things are presented in such a way as if Soviet
>> Russia were working with the bloc of democratic states. Thanks to the
>> clever propaganda the sympathy of the American public is completely on
>> the side of Red Spain.
>>
>> Besides this propaganda, a war psychosis is being artificially
>> created. The American people are told that peace in Europe is hanging
>> only by a thread and that war is unavoidable. At the same time the
>> American people are unequivocally told that in case of a world war,
>> America must also take an active part in order to defend the slogans
>> of freedom and democracy in the world.
>>
>> These groups of people who occupy the highest positions in the
>> American government and want to pose as representatives of 'true
>> Americanism' and 'defenders of democracy' are, in the last analysis,
>> connected by unbreakable ties with international Jewry.
>>
>> For this Jewish international, which above all is concerned with the
>> interests of its race, to portray the President of the United States
>> as the 'idealist' champion on human rights was a very clever move. In
>> this manner they have created a dangerous hotbed for hatred and
>> hostility in this hemisphere and divided the world into two hostile
>> camps. The entire issue is worked out in a masterly manner. Roosevelt
>> has been given the foundation for activating American foreign policy,
>> and simultaneously has been procuring enormous military stocks for the
>> coming war, for which the Jews are striving very consciously. With
>> regard to domestic policy, it is very convenient to divert public
>> attention from anti-Semitism, which is constantly growing in the
>> United States, by talking about the necessity of defending religion
>> and individual liberty against the onslaught of Fascism.
>>
>> On 16 January 1939, Polish Ambassador Potocki reported to the Warsaw
>> Foreign Ministry on another lengthy conversation he had with
>> Roosevelt's personal envoy, William Bullitt
>>
>> 1. The vitalizing of foreign policy under the leadership of President
>> Roosevelt, who severely and unambiguously condemns totalitarian
>> countries.
>>
>> 2. United States preparations for war on sea, land and air will be
>> carried out at an accelerated pace and will consume the colossal sum
>> of 1.25 billion dollars.
>>
>> 3. It is the decided opinion of the President that France and Britain
>> must put an end to any sort of compromise with the totalitarian
>> countries. They must not get into any discussions aiming at any kind
>> of territorial changes.
>>
>> 4. They have the moral assurance that the United States will abandon
>> the policy of isolation and be prepared to intervene actively on the
>> side of Britain and France in case of war. America is ready to place
>> its whole wealth of money and raw materials at their disposal.
>>
>> The Polish Ambassador to Paris, Juliusz (Jules) Lukasiewicz, sent a
>> top secret report to the Foreign Ministry in Warsaw at the beginning
>> of February 1939 which outlined U.S. policy towards Europe as
>> explained to him by William Bullitt:
>>
>> A week ago, the Ambassador of the United States, William Bullitt
>> returned to Paris after a three months' leave in America. Meanwhile, I
>> have had two conversations with him which enable me to inform you of
>> his views regarding the European situation and to give a survey of
>> Washington's policy.
>>
>> The international situation is regarded by official circles as
>> extremely serious and in constant danger of armed conflict. Those in
>> authority are of the opinion that if war should break out between
>> Britain and France on the one hand, and Germany and Italy on the
>> other, and should Britain and France be defeated, the Germans would
>> endanger the real interests of the United States on the American
>> continent. For this reason, one can foresee right from the beginning
>> the participation of the United States in the war on the side of
>> France and Britain, naturally some time after the outbreak of the war.
>> As Ambassador Bullitt expressed it: 'Should war break out we shall
>> certainly not take part in it at the beginning, but we shall finish
>> it.'
>>
>> On 7 March 1939, Ambassador Potocki sent a remarkably lucid and
>> perceptive report on Roosevelt's foreign policy to his government in
>> Warsaw. This document was first made public when leading German
>> newspapers published it in German translation, along with a facsimile
>> reproduction of the first page of the Polish original, in their
>> editions of 28 October 1940. The main National Socialist party
>> newspaper, the Voelkischer Beobachter, published the Ambassador's
>> report with this observation:
>>
>> The document itself needs no commentary. We do not know, and it does
>> not concern us, whether the internal American situation as reported by
>> the Polish diplomat is correct in every detail. That must be decided
>> by the American people alone. But in the interest of historical truth
>> it is important for us to show that the warmongering activities of
>> American diplomacy, especially in Europe, are once again revealed and
>> proven by this document. It still remains a secret just who, and for
>> what motives, have driven American diplomacy to this course. In any
>> case, the results have been disastrous for both Europe and America.
>> Europe was plunged into war and America has brought upon itself the
>> hostility of great nations which normally have no differences with the
>> American people and, indeed, have not been in conflict but have lived
>> for generations as friends and want to remain so...
>>
>> While the Polish documents alone are conclusive proof of Roosevelt's
>> treacherous campaign to bring about world war, it is fortunate for
>> posterity that a substantial body of irrefutable complementary
>> evidence exists which confirms the conspiracy recorded in the
>> dispatches to Warsaw...
>>
>> On 19 September 1938 -- that is, a year before the outbreak of war in
>> Europe-Roosevelt called Lindsay to a very secret meeting at the White
>> House. At the beginning of their long conversation, according to
>> Lindsay's confidential dispatch to London, Roosevelt "emphasized the
>> necessity of absolute secrecy. Nobody must know I had seen him and he
>> himself would tell nobody of the interview. I gathered not even the
>> State Department." The two discussed some secondary matters before
>> Roosevelt got to the main point of the conference. "This is the very
>> secret part of his communication and it must not be known to anyone
>> that he has even breathed a suggestion." The President told the
>> Ambassador that if news of the conversation was ever made public, it
>> could mean his impeachment. And no wonder. What Roosevelt proposed was
>> a cynically brazen but harebrained scheme to violate the U.S.
>> Constitution and dupe the American people.
>>
>> The President said that if Britain and France "would find themselves
>> forced to war" against Germany, the United States would ultimately
>> also join. But this would require some clever maneuvering. Britain and
>> France should impose a total blockade against Germany without actually
>> declaring war and force other states (including neutrals) to abide by
>> it. This would certainly provoke some kind of German military
>> response, but it would also free Britain and France from having to
>> actually declare war. For propaganda purposes, the "blockade must be
>> based on loftiest humanitarian grounds and on the desire to wage
>> hostilities with minimum of suffering and the least possible loss of
>> life and property, and yet bring the enemy to his knees." Roosevelt
>> conceded that this would involve aerial bombardment, but "bombing from
>> the air was not the method of hostilities which caused really great
>> loss of life."
>>
>> The important point was to "call it defensive measures or anything
>> plausible but avoid actual declaration of war." That way, Roosevelt
>> believed he could talk the American people into supporting war against
>> Germany, including shipments of weapons to Britain and France, by
>> insisting that the United States was still technically neutral in a
>> non-declared conflict. "This method of conducting war by blockade
>> would in his [Roosevelt's] opinion meet with approval of the United
>> States if its humanitarian purpose were strongly emphasized," Lindsay
>> reported.[19]
>>
>> The American Ambassador to Italy, William Phillips, admitted in his
>> postwar memoirs that the Roosevelt administration was already
>> committed to going to war on the side of Britain and France in late
>> 1938. "On this and many other occasions," Phillips wrote, "I would
>> like to have told him [Count Ciano, the Italian Foreign Minister]
>> frankly that in the event of a European war, the United States would
>> undoubtedly be involved on the side of the Allies. But in view of my
>> official position, I could not properly make such a statement without
>> instructions from Washington, and these I never received."[20]
>>
>> The fateful British pledge to Poland of 31 March 1939 to go to war
>> against Germany in case of a Polish-German conflict would not have
>> been made without strong pressure from the White House
>>
>> In their nationally syndicated column of 14 April 1939, the usually
>> very well informed Washington journalists Drew Pearson and Robert S.
>> Allen reported that on 16 March 1939 Roosevelt had "sent a virtual
>> ultimatum to Chamberlain" demanding that henceforth the British
>> government strongly oppose Germany. According to Pearson and Allen,
>> who completely supported Roosevelt's move, "the President warned that
>> Britain could expect no more support, moral or material through the
>> sale of airplanes, if the Munich policy continued."[22] Chamberlain
>> gave in and the next day, 17 March, ended Britain's policy of
>> cooperation with Germany in a speech at Birmingham bitterly denouncing
>> Hitler. Two weeks later the British government formally pledged itself
>> to war in case of German-Polish hostilities.
>>
>> In a confidential telegram to Washington dated 9 April 1939, Bullitt
>> reported from Paris on another conversation with Ambassador
>> Lukasiewicz. He had told the Polish envoy that although U.S. law
>> prohibited direct financial aid to Poland, it might be possible to
>> circumvent its provisions. The Roosevelt administration might be able
>> to supply war planes to Poland indirectly through Britain. "The Polish
>> Ambassador asked me if it might not be possible for Poland to obtain
>> financial help and aeroplanes from the United States. I replied that I
>> believed the Johnson Act would forbid any loans from the United States
>> to Poland but added that it might be possible for England to purchase
>> planes for cash in the United States and turn them over to
>> Poland."[24]
>>
>> On 25 April 1939, four months before the outbreak of war, Bullitt
>> called American newspaper columnist Karl von Wiegand, chief European
>> correspondent of the International News Service, to the U.S. embassy
>> in Paris and told him: "War in Europe has been decided upon. Poland
>> has the assurance of the support of Britain and France, and will yield
>> to no demands from Germany. America will be in the war soon after
>> Britain and France enter it."[25]
>>
>> In a lengthy secret conversation at Hyde Park on 28 May 1939,
>> Roosevelt assured the former President of Czechoslovakia, Dr. Edvard
>> Benes, that America would actively intervene on the side of Britain
>> and France in the anticipated European war.[26]
>>
>> In June 1939, Roosevelt secretly proposed to the British that the
>> United States should establish "a patrol over the waters of the
>> Western Atlantic with a view to denying them to the German Navy in the
>> event of war." The British Foreign Office record of this offer noted
>> that "although the proposal was vague and woolly and open to certain
>> objections, we assented informally as the patrol was to be operated in
>> our interests."[27]
>>
>> Many years after the war, Georges Bonnet, the French Foreign Minister
>> in 1939, confirmed Bullitt's role as Roosevelt's deputy in pushing his
>> country into war. In a letter to Hamilton Fish dated 26 March 1971,Bonnet wrote: "One thing is certain is that Bullitt in 1939 did
>>
>> everything he could to make France enter the war."[28] An important
>> confirmation of the crucial role of Roosevelt and the Jews in pushing
>> Britain into war comes from the diary of James V. Forrestal, the first
>> U.S. Secretary of Defense. In his entry for 27 December 1945, he
>> wrote:
>>
>> Played golf today with [former Ambassador] Joe Kennedy. I asked him
>> about his conversations with Roosevelt and [British Prime Minister]
>> Neville Chamberlain from 1938 on. He said Chamberlain's position in
>> 1938 was that England had nothing with which to fight and that she
>> could not risk going to war with Hitler. Kennedy's view: That Hitler
>> would have fought Russia without any later conflict with England if it
>> had not been for [William] Bullitt's urging on Roosevelt in the summer
>> of 1939 that the Germans must be faced down about Poland; neither the
>> French nor the British would have made Poland a cause of war if it had
>> not been for the constant needling from Washington. Bullitt, he said,
>> kept telling Roosevelt that the Germans wouldn't fight; Kennedy that
>> they would, and that they would overrun Europe. Chamberlain, he says,
>> stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into the
>> war. In his telephone conversations with Roosevelt in the summer of
>> 1939, the President kept telling him to put some iron up Chamberlain's
>> backside.[29]
>>
>> "In the West," the Ambassador told Szembek, "there are all kinds of
>> elements openly pushing for war: the Jews, the super-capitalists, the
>> arms dealers. Today they are all ready for a great business, because
>> they have found a place which can be set on fire: Danzig; and a nation
>> that is ready to fight: Poland. They want to do business on our backs.
>> They are indifferent to the destruction of our country. Indeed, since
>> everything will have to be rebuilt later on, they can profit from that
>> as well."[30]
>>
>> On 24 August 1939, just a week before the outbreak of hostilities,
>> Chamberlain's closest advisor, Sir Horace Wilson, went to Ambassador
>> Kennedy with an urgent appeal from the British Prime Minister for
>> President Roosevelt. Regretting that Britain had unequivocally
>> obligated itself in March to Poland in case of war, Chamberlain now
>> turned in despair to Roosevelt as a last hope for peace. He wanted the
>> American President to "put pressure on the Poles" to change course at
>> this late hour and open negotiations with Germany. By telephone
>> Kennedy told the State Department that the British "felt that they
>> could not, given their obligations, do anything of this sort but that
>> we could." Presented with this extraordinary opportunity to possibly
>> save the peace of Europe, Roosevelt rejected Chamberlain's desperate
>> plea out of hand. At that, Kennedy reported, the Prime Minister lost
>> all hope. "The futility of it all," Chamberlain had told Kennedy, "is
>> the thing that is frightful. After all, we cannot save the Poles. We
>> can merely carry on a war of revenge that will mean the destruction of
>> all Europe."[31]
>>
>> But Roosevelt rejected out of hand this chance to save the peace of
>> Europe. To a close political crony, he called Kennedy's plea "the
>> silliest message to me that I have ever received." He complained to
>> Henry Morgenthau that his London Ambassador was nothing but a pain in
>> the neck: "Joe has been an appeaser and will always be an appeaser ...
>> If Germany and Italy made a good peace offer tomorrow, Joe would start
>> working on the King and his friend the Queen and from there on down to
>> get everybody to accept it."[33]
>>
>> Infuriated at Kennedy's stubborn efforts to restore peace in Europe or
>> at least limit the conflict that had broken out, Roosevelt instructed
>> his Ambassador with a "personal" and "strictly confidential" telegram
>> on 11 September 1939 that any American peace effort was totally out of
>> the question. The Roosevelt government, it declared, "sees no
>> opportunity nor occasion for any peace move to be initiated by the
>> President of the United States. The people [sic] of the United States
>> would not support any move for peace initiated by this Government that
>> would consolidate or make possible a survival of a regime of force and
>> aggression."[34]
>>
>> In the months before armed conflict broke out in Europe, perhaps the
>> most vigorous and prophetic American voice of warning against
>> President Roosevelt's campaign to incite war was that of Hamilton
>> Fish, a leading Republican congressman from New York. In a series of
>> hard-hitting radio speeches, Fish rallied considerable public opinion
>> against Roosevelt's deceptive war policy. Here are only a few excerpts
>> from some of those addresses.[35]
>>
>> On 6 January 1939, Fish told a nationwide radio audience:
>> The inflammatory and provocative message of the President to Congress
>> and the world [given two days before] has unnecessarily alarmed the
>> American people and created, together with a barrage of propaganda
>> emanating from high New Deal officials, a war hysteria, dangerous to
>> the peace of America and the world. The only logical conclusion to
>> such speeches is another war fought overseas by American soldiers.
>>
>> All the totalitarian nations referred to by President Roosevelt ...
>> haven't the faintest thought of making war on us or invading Latin
>> America.
>> I do not propose to mince words on such an issue, affecting the life,
>> liberty and happiness of our people. The time has come to call a halt
>> to the warmongers of the New Deal, backed by war profiteers,
>> Communists, and hysterical internationalists, who want us to
>> quarantine the world with American blood and money.
>> He [Roosevelt] evidently desires to whip up a frenzy of hate and war
>> psychosis as a red herring to take the minds of our people off their
>> own unsolved domestic problems. He visualizes hobgoblins and creates
>> in the public mind a fear of foreign invasions that exists only in his
>> own imagination.
>>
>> On 5 March, Fish spoke to the country over the Columbia radio network:
>> The people of France and Great Britain want peace but our warmongers
>> are constantly inciting them to disregard the Munich Pact and resort
>> to the arbitrament of arms. If only we would stop meddling in foreign
>> lands the old nations of Europe would compose their own quarrels by
>> arbitration and the processes of peace, but apparently we won't let
>> them.
>>
>> Fish addressed the listeners of the National Broadcasting Company
>> network on 5 April with these words:
>> The youth of America are again being prepared for another blood bath
>> in Europe in order to make the world safe for democracy.
>> If Hitler and the Nazi government regain Memel or Danzig, taken away
>> from Germany by the Versailles Treaty, and where the population is 90
>> percent German, why is it necessary to issue threats and denunciations
>> and incite our people to war? I would not sacrifice the life of one
>> American soldier for a half dozen Memels or Danzigs. We repudiated the
>> Versailles Treaty because it was based on greed and hatred, and as
>> long as its inequalities and injustices exist there are bound to be
>> wars of liberation.
>>
>> The sooner certain provisions of the Versailles Treaty are scrapped
>> the better for the peace of the world.
>>
>> I believe that if the areas that are distinctly German in population
>> are restored to Germany, except Alsace-Lorraine and the Tyrol, there
>> will be no war in western Europe. There may be a war between the Nazis
>> and the Communists, but if there is that is not our war or that of
>> Great Britain or France or any of the democracies.
>>
>> New Deal spokesmen have stirred up war hysteria into a veritable
>> frenzy. The New Deal propaganda machine is working overtime to prepare
>> the minds of our people for war, who are already suffering from a bad
>> case of war jitters.
>>
>> President Roosevelt is the number one warmonger in America, and is
>> largely responsible for the fear that pervades the Nation which has
>> given the stock market and the American people a bad case of the
>> jitters.
>>
>> I accuse the administration of instigating war propaganda and hysteria
>> to cover up the failure and collapse of the New Deal policies, with 12
>> million unemployed and business confidence destroyed.
>>
>> I believe we have far more to fear from our enemies from within than
>> we have from without. All the Communists are united in urging us to go
>> to war against Germany and Japan for the benefit of Soviet Russia.
>>
>> Great Britain still expects every American to do her duty, by
>> preserving the British Empire and her colonies. The war profiteers,
>> munitions makers and international bankers are all set up for our
>> participation in a new world war.
>>
>> On 21 April, Fish again spoke to the country over nationwide radio:
>>
>> It is the duty of all those Americans who desire to keep out of
>> foreign entanglements and the rotten mess and war madness of Europe
>> and Asia to openly expose the war hysteria and propaganda that is
>> impelling us to armed conflict.
>>
>> What we need in America is a stop war crusade, before we are forced
>> into a foreign war by internationalists and interventionists at
>> Washington, who seem to be more interested in solving world problems
>> rather than our own.
>>
>> In his radio address of 26 May, Fish stated:
>> He [Roosevelt] should remember that the Congress has the sole power to
>> declare war and formulate the foreign policies of the United States.
>> The President has no such constitutional power. He is merely the
>> official organ to carry out the policies determined by the Congress.
>>
>> Without knowing even who the combatants will be, we are informed
>> almost daily by the internationalists and interventionists in America
>> that we must participate in the next world war.
>>
>> On 8 July 1939, Fish declared over the National Broadcasting Company
>> radio network:
>> If we must go to war, let it be in defense of America, but not in
>> defense of the munitions makers, war profiteers, Communists, to cover
>> up the failures of the New Deal, or to provide an alibi for a third
>> term.
>> It is well for all nations to know that we do not propose to go to war
>> over Danzig, power politics, foreign colonies, or the imperialistic
>> wars of Europe or anywhere in the world.
>>
>> President Roosevelt could have done little to incite war in Europe
>> without help from powerful allies. Behind him stood the self-serving
>> international financial and Jewish interests bent on the destruction
>> of Germany. The principal organization which drummed up public support
>> for U.S. involvement in the European war prior to the Pearl Harbor
>> attack was the cleverly named "Committee to Defend America by Aiding
>> the Allies." President Roosevelt himself initiated its founding, and
>> top administration officials consulted frequently with Committee
>> leaders.[36]
>>
>> Although headed for a time by an elderly small-town Kansas newspaper
>> publisher, William Allen White, the Committee was actually organized
>> by powerful financial interests which stood to profit tremendously
>> from loans to embattled Britain and from shrewd investments in giant
>> war industries in the United States.
>> At the end of 1940, West Virginia Senator Rush D. Holt issued a
>> detailed examination of the Committee which exposed the base interests
>> behind the idealistic-sounding slogans:
>>
>> The Committee has powerful connections with banks, insurance
>> companies, financial investing firms, and industrial concerns. These
>> in turn exert influence on college presidents and professors, as well
>> as on newspapers, radio and other means of communication. One of the
>> powerful influences used by the group is the '400' and social set. The
>> story is a sordid picture of betrayal of public interest.
>> The powerful J.P. Morgan interest with its holdings in the British
>> Empire helped plan the organization and donated its first expense
>> money.
>>
>> Some of the important figures active in the Committee were revealed by
>> Holt: Frederic R. Coudert, a paid war propagandist for the British
>> government in the U.S. during the First World War; Robert S. Allen of
>> the Pearson and Allen syndicated column; Henry R. Luce, the
>> influential publisher of Time, Life, and Fortune magazines; Fiorella
>> LaGuardia, the fiery half-Jewish Mayor of Now York City; Herbert
>> Lehman, the Jewish Governor of New York with important financial
>> holdings in war industries; and Frank Altschul, an officer in the
>> Jewish investment firm of Lazard Freres with extensive holdings in
>> munitions and military supply companies.
>>
>> If the Committee succeeded in getting the U.S. into war, Holt warned,
>> "American boys will spill their blood for profiteers, politicians and
>> 'paytriots.' If war comes, on the hands of the sponsors of the White
>> Committee will be blood-the blood of Americans killed in a needless
>> war."[37]
>>
>> In March 1941 a list of most of the Committee's financial backers was
>> made public. It revealed the nature of the forces eager to bring
>> America into the European war. Powerful international banking
>> interests were well represented. J.P. Morgan, John W. Morgan, Thomas
>> W. Lamont and others of the great Morgan banking house were listed.
>> Other important names from the New York financial world included Mr.
>> and Mrs. Paul Mellon, Felix M. and James F. Warburg, and J. Malcolm
>> Forbes. Chicago department store owner and publisher Marshall Field
>> was a contributor, as was William Averill Harriman, the railroad and
>> investment millionaire who later served as Roosevelt's ambassador in
>> Moscow.
>>
>> Of course, Jewish names made up a substantial portion of the long
>> list. Hollywood film czar Samuel Goldwyn of Goldwyn Studios was there,
>> along with David Dubinsky, the head of the International Ladies
>> Garment Workers Union. The William S. Paley Foundation, which had been
>> set up by the head of the giant Columbia Broadcasting System,
>> contributed to the Committee. The name of Mrs. Herbert H. Lehman, wife
>> of the New York Governor, was also on the list.[38]
>>
>> Without an understanding of his intimate ties to organized Jewry,
>> Roosevelt's policies make little sense. As Jewish historian Lucy
>> Dawidowicz noted: "Roosevelt himself brought into his immediate circle
>> more Jews than any other President before or after him. Felix
>> Frankfurter, Bernard M. Baruch and Henry Morgenthau were his close
>> advisers. Benjamin V. Cohen, Samuel Rosenman and David K. Niles were
>> his friends and trusted aides."[39] This is perhaps not so remarkable
>> in light of Roosevelt's reportedly one-eighth Jewish ancestry.[40]
>>
>> In his diary entry of 1 May 1941, Charles A. Lindbergh, the American
>> aviator hero and peace leader, nailed the coalition that was pushing
>> the United States into war:
>>
>> The pressure for war is high and mounting. The people are opposed to
>> it, but the Administration seems to have 'the bit in its teeth' and
>> [is] hell-bent on its way to war. Most of the Jewish interests in the
>> country are behind war, and they control a huge part of our press and
>> radio and most of our motion pictures. There are also the
>> 'intellectuals,' and the 'Anglophiles,' and the British agents who are
>> allowed free rein, the international financial interests, and many
>> others.[41]
>>
>> Joseph Kennedy shared Lindbergh's apprehensions about Jewish power.
>> Before the outbreak of war he privately expressed concerns about "the
>> Jews who dominate our press" and world Jewry in general, which he
>> considered a threat to peace and prosperity. Shortly after the
>> beginning of hostilities, Kennedy lamented "the growing Jewish
>> influence in the press and in Washington demanding continuance of the
>> war "[42]
>>
>> Roosevelt's efforts to get Poland, Britain and France into war against
>> Germany succeeded all too well. The result was untold death and misery
>> and destruction. When the fighting began, as Roosevelt had intended
>> and planned, the Polish and French leaders expected the American
>> president to at least make good on his assurances of backing in case
>> of war. But Roosevelt had not reckoned on the depth of peace sentiment
>> of the vast majority of Americans. So, in addition to deceiving his
>> own people, Roosevelt also let down those in Europe to whom he had
>> promised support.
>>
>> Seldom in American history were the people as united in their views as
>> they were in late 1939 about staying out of war in Europe. When
>> hostilities began in September 1939, the Gallup poll showed 94 percent
>> of the American people against involvement in war. That figure rose to
>> 96.5 percent in December before it began to decline slowly to about 80
>> percent in the Fall of 1941. (Today, there is hardly an issue that
>> even 60 or 70 percent of the people agree upon.)[43]
>>
>> Roosevelt was, of course, quite aware of the intensity of popular
>> feeling on this issue. That is why he lied repeatedly to the American
>> people about his love of peace and his determination to keep the U.S.
>> out of war, while simultaneously doing everything in his power to
>> plunge Europe and America into war.
>>
>> In a major 1940 re-election campaign speech, Roosevelt responded to
>> the growing fears of millions of Americans who suspected that their
>> President had secretly pledged United States support to Britain in its
>> war against Germany. These well-founded suspicions were based in part
>> on the publication in March of the captured Polish documents. The
>> speech of 23 October 1940 was broadcast from Philadelphia to the
>> nation on network radio. In the most emphatic language possible,
>> Roosevelt categorically denied that he had
>> pledged in some way the participation of the United States in some
>> foreign war. I give to you and to the people of this country this most
>> solemn assurance: There is no secret Treaty, no secret understanding
>> in any shape or form, direct or indirect, with any Government or any
>> other nation in any part of the world, to involve this nation in any
>> war or for any other purpose.[44]
>>
>> We now know, of course, that this pious declaration was just another
>> one of Roosevelt's many brazen, bald-faced lies to the American
>> people.
>>
>> Roosevelt's policies were more than just dishonest-they were criminal.
>> The Constitution of the United States grants authority only to the
>> Congress to make war and peace. And Congress had passed several major
>> laws to specifically insure U.S. neutrality in case of war in Europe.
>> Roosevelt continually violated his oath as President to uphold the
>> Constitution. If his secret policies had been known, the public demand
>> for his impeachment would very probably have been unstoppable.
>>
>> The Watergate episode has made many Americans deeply conscious of the
>> fact that their presidents can act criminally. That affair forced
>> Richard Nixon to resign his presidency, and he is still widely
>> regarded as a criminal. No schools are named after him and his name
>> will never receive the respect that normally goes to every American
>> president. But Nixon's crimes pale into insignificance when compared
>> to those of Franklin Roosevelt. What were Nixon's lies compared to
>> those of Roosevelt? What is a burglary cover-up compared to an illegal
>> and secret campaign to bring about a major war?
>>
>> Those who defend Roosevelt's record argue that he lied to the American
>> people for their own good-that he broke the law for lofty principles.
>> His deceit is considered permissible because the cause was noble,
>> while similar deception by presidents Johnson and Nixon, to name two,
>> is not. This is, of course, a hypocritical double standard. And the
>> argument doesn't speak very well for the democratic system. It implies
>> that the people are too dumb to understand their own best interests.
>> It further suggests that the best form of government is a kind of
>> benevolent liberal-democratic dictatorship.
>>
>> Roosevelt's hatred for Hitler was deep, vehement, passionate-almost
>> personal. This was due in no small part to an abiding envy and
>> jealousy rooted in the great contrast between the two men, not only in
>> their personal characters but also in their records as national
>> leaders.
>>
>> Superficially, the public fives of Roosevelt and Hitler were
>> astonishingly similar. Both assumed the leadership of their respective
>> countries at the beginning of 1933. They both faced the enormous
>> challenge of mass unemployment during a catastrophic worldwide
>> economic depression. Each became a powerful leader in a vast military
>> alliance during the most destructive war in history. Both men died
>> while still in office within a few weeks of each other in April 1945,
>> just before the end of the Second World War in Europe. But the
>> enormous contrasts in the lives of these two men are even more
>> remarkable.
>>
>> Roosevelt was born into one of the wealthiest families in America. His
>> was a life utterly free of material worry. He took part in the First
>> World War from an office in Washington as UnderSecretary of the Navy.
>> Hitler, on the other hand, was born into a modest provinicial family.
>> As a young man he worked as an impoverished manual laborer. He served
>> in the First World War as a front line soldier in the hell of the
>> Western battleground. He was wounded many times and decorated for
>> bravery.
>>
>> In spite of his charming manner and soothing rhetoric, Roosevelt
>> proved unable to master the great challenges facing America. Even
>> after four years of his presidency, millions remained unemployed,
>> undernourished and poorly housed in a vast land richly endowed with
>> all the resources for incomparable prosperity. The New Deal was
>> plagued with bitter strikes and bloody clashes between labor and
>> capital. Roosevelt did nothing to solve the country's deep, festering
>> racial problems which erupted repeatedly in riots and armed conflict.
>> The story was very different in Germany. Hitler rallied his people
>> behind a radical program that transformed Germany within a few years
>> from an economically ruined land on the edge of civil war into
>> Europe's powerhouse. Germany underwent a social, cultural and economic
>> rebirth without parallel in history. The contrast between the
>> personalities of Roosevelt and Hitler was simultaneously a contrast
>> between two diametrically different social-political systems and
>> ideologies.
>>
>> And yet, it would be incorrect to characterize Roosevelt as merely a
>> cynical politician and front man for powerful alien interests.
>> Certainly he did not regard himself as an evil man. He sincerely
>> believed that he was doing the right and noble thing in pressuring
>> Britain and France into war against Germany. Like Wilson before him,
>> and others since, Roosevelt felt himself uniquely qualified and called
>> upon by destiny to reshape the world according to his vision of an
>> egalitarian, universalist democracy. He was convinced, as so many
>> American leaders have been, that the world could be saved from itself
>> by remodeling it after the United States.
>>
>> Presidents like Wilson and Roosevelt view the world not as a complex
>> of different nations, races and cultures which must mutually respect
>> each others' separate collective identities in order to live together
>> in peace, but rather according to a selfrighteous missionary
>> perspective that divides the globe into morally good and evil
>> countries. In that scheme of things, America is the providentially
>> permanent leader of the forces of righteousness. Luckily, this view
>> just happens to correspond to the economic and political interests of
>> those who wield power in the United States.
>>
>> President Roosevelt's War
>> In April 1941, Senator Gerald Nye of North Dakota prophetically
>> predicted that one day the Second World War would be remembered as
>> Roosevelt's war. "If we are ever involved in this war, it will be
>> called by future historians by only one title, 'the President's War,'
>> because every step of his since his Chicago quarantine speech [of 5
>> October 1937] has been toward war.[45]
>>
>> The great American historian, Harry Elmer Barnes, believed that war
>> could probably have been prevented in 1939 if it had not been for
>> Roosevelt's meddling. "Indeed, there is fairly conclusive evidence
>> that, but for Mr. Roosevelt's pressure on Britain, France and Poland,
>> and his commitments to them before September 1939, especially to
>> Britain, and the irresponsible antics of his agent provocateur,
>> William C. Bullitt, there would probably have been no world war in
>> 1939, or, perhaps, for many years thereafter."[46] In Revisionism: A
>> Key to Peace, Barnes wrote:
>>
>> President Roosevelt had a major responsibility, both direct and
>> indirect, for the outbreak of war in Europe. He began to exert
>> pressure on France to stand up to Hitler as early as the German
>> reoccupation of the Rhineland in March 1936, months before he was
>> making his strongly isolationist speeches in the campaign of 1936.
>> This pressure on France, and also England, continued right down to the
>> coming of the war in September 1939. It gained volume and momentum
>> after the quarantine speech of October 1937. As the crisis approached
>> between Munich and the outbreak of war, Roosevelt pressed the Poles to
>> stand firm against any demands by Germany, and urged the English and
>> French to back up the Poles unflinchingly.
>> There is grave doubt that England would have gone to war in September
>> 1939 had it not been for Roosevelt's encouragement and his assurances
>> that, in the event of war, the United States would enter on the side
>> of Britain just as soon as he could swing American public opinion
>> around to support intervention.
>>
>> Roosevelt had abandoned all semblance of neutrality, even before war
>> broke out in 1939, and moved as speedily as was safe and feasible in
>> the face of anti-interventionist American public opinion to involve
>> this country in the European conflict.[47]
>>
>> One of the most perceptive verdicts on Franklin Roosevelt's place in
>> history came from the pen of the great Swedish explorer and author,
>> Sven Hedin. During the war he wrote:
>>
>> The question of the way it came to a new world war is not only to be
>> explained because of the foundation laid by the peace treaties of
>> 1919, or in the suppression of Germany and her allies after the First
>> World War, or in the continuation of the ancient policies of Great
>> Britain and France. The decisive push came from the other side of the
>> Atlantic Ocean.
>>
>> Roosevelt speaks of democracy and destroys it incessantly. He slanders
>> as undemocratic and un-American those who admonish him in the name of
>> peace and the preservation of the American way of life. He has made
>> democracy into a caricature rather than a model. He talks about
>> freedom of speech and silences those who don't hold his opinion.
>> He talks about freedom of religion and makes an alliance with
>> Bolshevism.
>>
>> He talks about freedom from want, but cannot provide ten million of
>> his own people with work, bread or shelter. He talks about freedom
>> from the fear of war while working for war, not only for his own
>> people but for the world, by inciting his country against the Axis
>> powers when it might have united with them, and he thereby drove
>> millions to their deaths.
>> This war will go down in history as the war of President
>> Roosevelt.[48]
>>
>> Officially orchestrated praise for Roosevelt as a great man of peace
>> cannot conceal forever his crucial role in pushing Europe into war in
>> 1939.
>>
>> It is now more than forty years since the events described here took
>> place. For many they are an irrelevant part of a best-forgotten past.
>> But the story of how Franklin Roosevelt engineered war in Europe is
>> very pertinent-particularly for Americans today. The lessons of the
>> past have never been more important than in this nuclear age. For
>> unless at least an aware minority understands how and why wars are
>> made, we will remain powerless to restrain the warmongers of our own
>> era.
>>
>> Notes
>> 1. � � �See, for example: Charles A. Beard, President Roosevelt and
>> the Coming of the War 1941 (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1948);
>> William Henry Chamberlin, America's Second Crusade (Chicago: Regnery,
>> 1952, 1962); Benjamin Colby, 'Twas a Famous Victory (New Rochelle,
>> N.Y.: Arlington House, 1979); Frederic R. Sanborn, Design for War (New
>> York: Devin-Adair, 1951); William Stevenson, A Man Called Intrepid
>> (New York: Ballantine Books, 1980); Charles C. Tansill, Back Door to
>> War (Chicago: Regnery, 1952); John Toland, Infamy: Pearl Harbor and
>> Its Aftermath (New York: Doubleday, 1982).
>> 2. � � �Saul Friedlander, Prelude to Downfall: Hitler and the United
>> States 1939-1941 (New York: Knopf, 1967), pp. 73-77; U.S., Congress,
>> House, Special Committee on Investigation of Un-American Activities in
>> the United States, 1940, Appendix, Part II, pp. 1054-1059.
>> 3. � � �Friedlander, pp. 75-76.
>> 4. � � �New York Times, 30 March 1940, p. 1.
>> 5. � � �Ibid., p. 4, and 31 March 1940, p. 1.
>> 6. � � �New York Times, 30 March 1940, p. 1. Baltimore Sun, 30 March
>> 1940, p. 1.
>> 7. � � �A French-language edition was published in 1944 under the
>> title Comment Roosevelt est Entre en Guerre.
>> 8. � � �Tansill, "The United States and the Road to War in Europe," in
>> Harry Elmer Barnes (ed.), Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace (Caldwell,
>> Idaho: Caxton, 1953; reprint eds., New York: Greenwood, 1969 and
>> Torrance, Calif.: Institute for Historical Review [supplemented],
>> 1982), p. 184 (note 292). Tansill also quoted from several of the
>> documents in his Back Door to War, pp. 450-51.
>> 9. � � �Harry Elmer Barnes, The Court Historians Versus Revisionism
>> (N.p.: privately printed, 1952), p. 10. This booklet is reprinted in
>> Barnes, Selected Revisionist Pamphlets (New York: Arno Press & The New
>> York Times, 1972), and in Barnes, The Barnes Trilogy (Torrance,
>> Calif.: Institute for Historical Review, 1979).
>> 10. � � Chamberlin, p. 60.
>> 11. � � Edward Raczynski, In Allied London (London: Weidenfeld and
>> Nicolson, 1963), p. 51.
>> 12. � � Orville H. Bullitt (ad.), For the President: Personal and
>> Secret (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1972), p. x1v [biographical
>> foreword]. See also Time, 26 October 1936, p. 24.
>> 13. � � Current Biography 1940, ed. Maxine Block (New York: H.W.
>> Wilson, 1940), p. 122 ff.
>> 14. � � Gisleher Wirsing, Der masslose Kontinent: Roosevelts Kampf um
>> die Weltherrschaft (Jena: E. Diederichs, 1942), p. 224.
>> 15. � � Bullitt obituary in New York Times, 16 February 1967, p. 44.
>> 16. � � Jack Alexander, "He Rose From the Rich," Saturday Evening
>> Post, 11 March 1939, p. 6. (Also see continuation in issue of 18 March
>> 1939.) Bullitt's public views on the European scene and what should be
>> America's attitude toward it can be found in his Report to the
>> American People (Boston: Houghton Mifflin [Cambridge: Riverside
>> Press], 1940), the text of a speech he delivered, with the President's
>> blessing, under the auspices of the American Philosophical Society in
>> Independence Hall in Philadelphia shortly after the fall of France.
>> For sheer, hyperventilated stridency and emotionalist hysterics, this
>> anti-German polemic could hardly be topped, even given the similar
>> propensities of many other interventionists in government and the
>> press in those days.
>> 17. � � Michael R. Beschloss, Kennedy and Roosevelt (New York: Norton,
>> 1980), pp. 203-04.
>> 18. � � Robert Dallek, Franklin D. Roosevelt and American Foreign
>> Policy 1932-1945 (New York: Oxford University Press, 1979), p. 31. See
>> also pp. 164-65.
>> 19. � � Dispatch No. 349 of 20 September 1938 by Sir. R. Lindsay,
>> Documents on British Foreign Policy (ed. Ernest L. Woodward), Third
>> series, Vol. VII (London, 1954), pp. 627-29. See also: Joseph P. Lash,
>> Roosevelt and Churchill 1939-1941 (New York: Norton, 1976), pp. 25-27;
>> Dallek, pp. 164-65; Arnold A. Offner, America and the Ori-, gins of
>> World War II (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1971), p. 61.
>> 20. � � William Phillips, Ventures in Diplomacy (North Beverly, Mass.:
>> privately published, 1952), pp. 220-21.
>> 21. � � Carl Burckhardt, Meine Danziger Mission 1937-1939 (Munich:
>> Callwey, 1960), p. 225.
>> 22. � � Drew Pearson and Robert S. Allen, "Washington Daily
>> Merry-Go-Round," Washington Times-Herald, 14 April 1939, p. 16. A
>> facsimile reprint of this column appears in Conrad Grieb (ed.),
>> American Manifest Destiny and The Holocausts (New York: Examiner
>> Books, 1979), pp. 132-33. See also: Wirsing, pp. 238-41.
>> 23. � � Jay P. Moffat, The Moffat Papers 1919-1943 (Cambridge: Harvard
>> University Press, 1956), p. 232.
>> 24. � � U.S., Department of State, Foreign Relations of the United
>> States (Diplomatic Papers), 1939, General, Vol. I (Washington: 1956),
>> p. 122.
>> 25. � � "Von Wiegand Says-," Chicago Herald-American, 8 October 1944,
>> p. 2.
>> 26. � � Edvard Benes, Memoirs of Dr. Eduard Benes (London: George
>> Allen & Unwin, 1954), pp. 79-80.
>> 27. � � Lash, p. 64.
>> 28. � � Hamilton Fish, FDR: The Other Side of the Coin (Now York:
>> Vantage, 1976; Torrance, Calif.: Institute for Historical Review,
>> 1980), p. 62.
>> 29. � � James V. Forrestal (ads. Walter Millis and E.S. Duffield), The
>> Forrestal Diaries (New York: Viking, 1951), pp. 121-22. I have been
>> privately informed by a colleague who has examined the original
>> manuscript of the Forrestal diaries that many very critical references
>> to the Jews were deleted from the published version.
>> 30. � � Jan Szembek, Journal 1933-1939 (Paris: Plan, 1952), pp.
>> 475-76.
>> 31. � � David E. Koskoff, Joseph P. Kennedy: A Life and Times
>> (Englewood Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1974), p. 207; Moffat, p. 253;
>> A.J.P. Taylor, The Origins of the Second World War (London: Hamish
>> Hamilton, 1961; 2nd ed. Greenwich, Conn.: Fawcett Premier [paperback],
>> 1965), p. 262; U.S., Department of State, Foreign Relations of the
>> United States, 1939, General, Vol. I (Washington: 1956), p. 355.
>> 32. � � Dallek, p. 164.
>> 33. � � Beschloss, pp. 190-91; Lash, p. 75; Koskoff, pp. 212-13.
>> 34. � � Hull to Kennedy (No. 905), U.S., Department of State, Foreign
>> Relations of the United States, 1939, General, Vol. I (Washington:
>> 1956), p. 424.
>> 35. � � The radio addresses of Hamilton Fish quoted here were
>> published in the Congressional Record Appendix (Washington) as
>> follows: (6 January 1939) Vol. 84, Part 11, pp. 52-53; (5 March 1939)
>> same, pp. 846-47; (5 April 1939) Vol. 84, Part 12, pp. 1342-43; (21
>> April 1939) same, pp. 1642-43; (26 May 1939) Vol. 84, Part 13, pp.
>> 2288-89; (8 July 1939) same, pp. 3127-28.
>> 36. � � Wayne S. Cole, Charles A. Lindbergh and the Battle Against
>> American Intervention in World War II (New York: Harcourt Brace
>> Jovanovich, 1974), pp. 128, 136-39.
>> 37. � � Congressional Record Appendix (Washington: 1941), (30 December
>> 1940) Vol. 86, Part 18, pp. 7019-25. See also: Appendix, Vol. 86, Part
>> 17, pp. 5808-14.
>> 38. � � New York Times, 11 March 1941, p. 10.
>> 39. � � Lucy Dawidowicz, "American Jews and the Holocaust," The New
>> York Times Magazine, 18 April 1982, p. 102.
>> 40. � � "FDR 'had a Jewish great-grandmother'" Jewish Chronicle
>> (London), 5 February 1982, p. 3.
>> 41. � � Charles A. Lindbergh, The Wartime Journals of Charles A.
>> Lindbergh (New York: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1970), p. 481.
>> 42. � � Koskoff, pp. 282, 212. The role of the American press in
>> fomenting hatred against Germany between 1933 and 1939 is a subject
>> that deserves much more detailed treatment. Charles Tansill provides
>> some useful information on this in Back Door to War. The essay by
>> Professor Hans A. Muenster, "Die Kriegsschuld der Presse der USA" in
>> Kriegsschuld und Presse, published in 1944 by the German
>> Reichsdozentenfuehrung, is worth consulting.
>> 43. � � An excellent essay relating and contrasting American public
>> opinion measurements to Roosevelt's foreign policy moves in 1939-41 is
>> Harry Elmer Barnes, Was Roosevelt Pushed Into War By Popular Demand in
>> 1941? (N.p.: privately printed, 1951). It is reprinted in Barnes,
>> Selected Revisionist Pamphlets.
>> 44. � � Lash, p. 240.
>> 45. � � New York Times, 27 April 1941, p. 19.
>> 46. � � Harry Elmer Barnes, The Struggle Against the Historical
>> Blackout, 2nd ed. (N.p.: privately published, ca. 1948), p. 12. See
>> also the 9th, final revised and enlarged edition (N.p.: privately
>> published, ca. 1954), p. 34; this booklet is reprinted in Barnes,
>> Selected Revisionist Pamphlets.
>> 47. � � Harry Elmer Barnes, "Revisionism: A Key to Peace," Rampart
>> Journal of Individualist Thought Vol. II, No. 1 (Spring 1966), pp.
>> 29-30. This article was republished in Barnes, Revisionism: A Key to
>> Peace and Other Essays (San Francisco: Cato Institute [Cato Paper No.
>> 12], 1980).
>> 48. � � Sven Hedin, Amerika im Kampf der Kontinente (Leipzig: F.A.
>> Brockhaus, 1943), p. 54.
>>
>> Bibliography
>> Listed here are the published editions of the Polish documents, the
>> most important sources touching on the questions of their authenticity
>> and content, and essential recent sources on what President Roosevelt
>> was really-as opposed to publicly-doing and thinking during the
>> prelude to war. Full citations for all references in the article will
>> be found in the notes.
>> Beschloss, Michael R. Kennedy and Roosevelt. New York: Norton, 1980.
>> Bullitt, Orville H. (ed.). For the President: Personal and Secret.
>> [Correspondence between Franklin D. Roosevelt and William C. Bullitt.]
>> Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1972.
>> Germany. Foreign Office Archive Commission. Roosevelts Weg in den
>> Krieg: Geheimdokumente zur Kriegspolitik des Praesidenten der
>> Vereinigten Staaten. Berlin: Deutscher Verlag, 1943.
>> Germany. Foreign Office. The German White Paper. [White Book No. 3.]
>> New York: Howell, Soskin and Co., 1940.
>> Germany. Foreign Office. Polnische Dokumente zur Vorgeschichte des
>> Kriegs. [White Book No. 3.] Berlin: F. Eher, 1940.
>> Koskoff, David E. Joseph P. Kennedy: A Life and Times. Englewood
>> Cliffs, N.J.: Prentice-Hall, 1974.
>> Lukasiewicz, Juliusz (Waclaw Jedrzejewicz, ed.). Diplomat in Paris
>> 1936-1939. New York: Columbia University Press, 1970.
>> Wirsing, Giselher. Der masslose Kontinent: Roosevelts Kampf um die
>> Weltherrschaft. Jena: E. Diederichs, 1942.
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/� � �http://www.natvan.com
>>
>> http://www.thebirdman.org� �http://www.nsm88.org
>>
>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html� �


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:48 EDT 2008
Article: 1937061 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
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Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 04:55:04 -0700 (PDT), Michael Price
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 8:31�pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:6eb4c145-0897-4142-914f-84723d6e0492@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 1, 11:16 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>
>> > By Mark Weber
>>
>> > Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>> > and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>> > Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>> > December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>> > violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>> > war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>> > declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>> > vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>> > intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>> > provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>> > against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>> > well known.[1]
>>
>> > Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>> > for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>> > Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>> > outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>> > his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>> > Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>
>> > Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>> > had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>> > history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>
>> > This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>> > Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>> > in September 1939.
>>
>> >http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>> > These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>> > on the Second World War.
>>
>> � And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>> agreement he ever signed and invaded countries left and right, including countries
>> that had already given up territory to placate the Germans? �No, in fact nothing
>> could have caused a war in Europe without Hitler specifically seeking complete
>> domination of it.
>>
>> Well - No.
>>
>  Well, yes.
>
>> WWII was totally avoidable.
>>
>> Read please, and weep.
>>
>  None of this disproves that Hitler did exactly what I said.  He lied
>and aggressed
>against all his neighbours including those he made treaties.

Are you naively saying that the allies were honest? Dream on. What
treaties did Hitler allegedly break?

>Agreeing
>to a treaty
>would only mean that Germany had more places to attack from like in
>Czechoslavakia.

Czechoslovakia was an artificial Versailles-state based on the
oppression and exploitation of both the Slovak and German minorities.
Czechoslovakia was doomed as a state on the day of its creation. Where
is Czechoslovakia today? It no longer exists because it had no basis
on which to exist.

>
>
>> GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>> DOCUMENTS
>>
>> Concerning the Last Phase
>> of the
>> German-Polish Crisis
>>
>> GERMAN LIBRARY OF INFORMATION
>> NEW YORK
>>
>> The original German white Book, "Documents Concerning the Last Phase of the
>> German-Polish Crisis", is not available to students of international affairs
>> in the United States in adequate quantities, owing to illicit British
>> interferences with the mails.
>>
>> The German Library of Information, therefore, issues a reprint of the
>> original for the benefit of such students, with a prefatory note disposing
>> of certain widely-circulated allegations made in the British Blue Book.
>>
>> Further copies may be obtained from the German Library of Information, 17
>> battery Place, New York.
>> ______________________________________________
>> INDEX
>> Note on the German white Book
>> �I. �The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> II. �Documents
>> �1. �First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>> in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>> of Danzig, August 4, 1939. �12
>> �2. �Second Note from the diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>> Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August 4,
>> 1939
>> �3. �Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig to the
>> Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939
>> �4. �Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>> to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939
>> �5. �Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>> Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939
>> �6. �Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, Aug. 22, 1939
>> �7. �Fuhrer's Reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23, 1939
>> �8. Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on �August 25,
>> 1939, at 1:30 p. m.
>> �9. �Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August 26, 1939
>> 10. The Fuhrer's letter of reply to the French premier, August 27, 1939
>> 11. Memorandum from British Government handed to Reich Minister for Foreign
>> Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p.m
>> 12. The Fuhrer's reply to the British Government handed to the British
>> Ambassador august 29, 1939 at 6:45 p.m
>> 13. Telephone Message from the German charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>> German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939 at 5:30 p. m.
>> 14. �Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister for
>> Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at midnight.
>> 15. �Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9 p.m.
>> containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>> Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>> Polish Minorities.
>> 16. �Announcement made by the Polish Broadcasting Station at Warsaw on
>> August 31, 1939, at 11 p.m.
>> 17. �Speech delivered by the Fuhrer before the Reichstag on September 1,
>> 1939
>> 18. �Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the British
>> Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 9:30 p. m.
>> 19. �Note handed to the Reich Minister for foreign Affairs by the French
>> Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 10 p. m.
>> 20. Communication handed to the German Foreign Office by the Italian
>> Ambassador on the morning of September 2, 1939.
>> 21. �Information from the Havas news Agency on September 2, 1939
>> 22. �Extract from a Declaration made by the British Secretary of State for
>> Foreign affairs in the House of Lords on the afternoon of September 2, 1939
>> 23. �Note handed to the German Foreign Office by the British Ambassador on
>> September 3, 1939, at 9 a.m.
>> 24. Note from the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs handed to
>> the German Charge d'Affairs in London on September 3, 1939, at 11:a5 a.m.
>> 25. �Memorandum from the German Government handed to the British Ambassador
>> by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, September 3, 1939, at 11:30 a.m.
>> 26. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the French
>> Ambassador on September 3, 1939, at 12.20 p.m.
>> _______________________________________________________
>> �Note on the German White Book
>>
>> � � �The German White Book, presented herewith, is a collection of official
>> documents and speeches, not a collection of uncontrollable conversations. It
>> does not pretend to cover the entire field of German-Polish relations but,
>> as the title implies, concerns itself solely with the last phase of the
>> German-Polish crisis, from August 4th to September 3rd, 1939.
>>
>> � � �the Polish-german controversy concerning the Corridor, Upper Silesia
>> and Danzig, began in 1919; it has never, since the signing of the Versailles
>> Treaty, ceased to agitate europe. For many years intelligent commentators
>> and statesmen of all nations, including Great Britain, agreed that the
>> separation of East Prussia from the Reich and, indeed, the whole Polish
>> settlement, was unjust and fraught with danger.
>>
>> � � �Germany, again and again, made attempts to solve the differences
>> between the two countries in a friendly spirit. It was only when all
>> negotiations proved vain and Poland joined the encirclement front against
>> Germany, that chancellor Hitler cut the Gordian knot with the sword. It was
>> England that forced the sword into his hand.
>>
>> � � �Great Britain asserts in her Blue Book and elsewhere that she was
>> compelled to "guaranty" Poland against "aggression" for reason of
>> international morality. Unfortunately the British Government subsequently
>> admitted (Under-Secretary of State Butler, House of Commons, October 19,
>> 1939) that the "guaranty" was aimed solely against Germany.
>>
>> � � �It was not valid in case of conflicts with other powers. In other
>> words, the British "guaranty" was merely a link in the British encirclement
>> chain. The Polish crisis was deliberately manufactured by Great Britain with
>> the connivance of Poland: it was the fuse designed to set off the explosion!
>>
>> � � �Great Britain naturally attempts to becloud this fact. Official British
>> statements on the outbreak of the war place great emphasis on the allegation
>> that England did not give a formal "guaranty" to Poland until March 31, 193,
>> whereas the German demand on Poland, which Poland rejected, was made on
>> march 21st. Britain contends that the British "guaranty" was merely the
>> consequence of the German demand of March 21st.
>>
>> � � �Britain denies that her "guaranty" stiffened Polish resistance. She
>> insists that Germany took advantage of a moment of highly strained
>> international tension by springing upon Poland her demand for an
>> extra-territorial road through the Corridor between the Reich and East
>> Prussia.
>>
>> � � �The British ignore a vital fact in this connection. The existence of
>> the "guaranty", not its formal announcement, was the decisive factor. The
>> future may reveal when the British promise was first dangled before Poland.
>> In any event, Poland was assured of British aid before March 21st.
>>
>> � � �Chamberlain's speech of march 17, 1939, and the statement by Lord
>> Halifax of March 20th, (both reprinted in the British Blue Book) leave no
>> doubt on that question. The British "guaranty" was in the nature of a blank
>> check. Poland did not know when she marched to her doom, that the check
>> would not be honored.
>>
>> � � �The allegations that the Poles were surprised or overwhelmed by the
>> German proposals, does not hold water. Poland was fully informed of the
>> German demands. When as Herr von Ribbentrop points out in his Danzig speech
>> (October 24, 1939) chancellor Hitler in 1934 concluded a Friendship and
>> Non-Aggression Pact with Marshal Pilsudski, it was clearly understood that
>> the problem of Danzig and the Corridor must be solved sooner or later.
>> Chancellor Hitler hoped that it would be solved within the framework of that
>> instrument.
>>
>> � � �Poland callously disregarded her obligations under the German-Polish
>> Pact, after the death of Marshal Pilsudski. The persecution of German
>> minorities in Poland, Poland's measures to strangle Danzig economically, the
>> insolent manner the Polish Government chose to adopt with the British blank
>> check in its pocket and the Polish mobilization frustrated chancellor
>> Hitler's desire to settle Polish-German differences by peaceful negotiation,
>> as he had solved every other problem arising from the bankruptcy of
>> statesmanship at Versailles.
>>
>> � � �No one can affirm that the National Socialist Government did not
>> attempt with extraordinary patience to impress upon Poland the desirability
>> of a prompt and peaceful solution. The Polish Government was familiar with
>> the specific solution proposed by Chancellor Hitler since October 24, 1938.
>> The nature of the German proposals was discussed at least four times between
>> the two governments before March 21, 1939.
>>
>> � � �On October 24, 1938, von Ribbentrop, the German foreign Minister,
>> proposed to the Polish Ambassador, Lipski, four steps to rectify the
>> injustice of Versailles and to eliminate all sources of friction between the
>> two countries.
>>
>> 1). �The return of the Free City of Danzig to the Reich, without severance
>> of its economic ties to the Polish State. (The arrangement vouchsafed to
>> Poland free port privileges and extra-territorial access to the harbor.)
>>
>> 2.) �An exterritorial [sic] route of communication through the Corridor by
>> rail and motor to reunite Germany and East Prussia.
>>
>> 3.) �Mutual recognition by the two States of their frontiers as final and,
>> if necessary, a mutual guaranty of their territories.
>>
>> 4.) �The extension of the German-Polish Pact of 1934 from ten to twenty-five
>> years.
>>
>> � � �On January 5, 1939, Poland's Foreign Minister, Josef Beck, conferred
>> with the German chancellor on the problems involved. �At this time
>> Chancellor Hitler offered Beck a clear and definite guaranty covering the
>> Corridor, on the basis of the four points outlined by von Ribbentrop. �The
>> following day, January 6th, at Munich, the German Foreign Minister once more
>> confirmed Germany's willingness to guaranty, not only the Corridor, but all
>> Polish territory.
>>
>> � � �The generous offer for a settlement along these line, liquidating all
>> friction between the two countries, was reiterated when Foreign Minister von
>> Ribbentrop paid a state visit to Warsaw (January 23rd to 17th, 1939). On
>> that occasion von Ribbentrop again offered a guaranty of the Polish-German
>> boundaries and a final all-inclusive settlement of German-Polish relations.
>>
>> � � �Under the circumstances it is absurd to allege that Poland was
>> "surprised" by the German proposal of March 21st, and subsequent
>> developments. �It is possible that Poland may have concealed Germany's
>> friendly and conciliatory offers from Paris and London. �With or without
>> British promptings, Poland prepared the stage for a melodramatic scene, in
>> which the German villain brutally threatened her sovereignty and her
>> independence.
>>
>> � � �In spite of Polish intransigence, culminating in threats of war,
>> Chancellor Hitler made one more desperate attempt to prevent the conflict.
>> He called for a Polish plenipotentiary to discuss the solution presented in
>> Document 15 of the German White book. This solution envisaged the return of
>> Danzig to the Reich, the protection of Polish and German minorities, a
>> plebiscite in the Corridor under neutral auspices, safeguarding,
>> irrespective of the result, Poland's unimpeded exterritorial access to the
>> sea.
>>
>> � � �The British are please to describe this reasonable document as an
>> "ultimatum". This is a complete distortion of the facts. �The German
>> government, it is true, had set a time-limit (August 30th) for the
>> acceptance of its proposal, but it waited twenty-four hours after its
>> expiration before concluding that the possibilities of diplomatic
>> negotiations had been exhausted. There was ample opportunity for England and
>> Poland to act within those twenty-four hours.
>>
>> � � �The British take the position that Germany's demands were not known
>> either in Warsaw or London. �That pretense is demolished by the British Blue
>> Book itself, for we find here a dispatch from Sir Nevile Henderson, the
>> British Ambassador to Berlin, which leaves no doubt that he relayed the
>> German proposal to London after his midnight conference with von Ribbentrop
>> on August 30th, and that he understood the essential points of the German
>> proposal. Henderson even transmitted to the British Government Chancellor
>> Hitler's assurance that the Polish negotiator would be received as a matter
>> of course on terms of complete equality with the courtesy and consideration
>> due to the emissary of a sovereign state.
>>
>> � � �Henderson sent his night message not only to Downing Street, but also
>> to the British Embassy in Warsaw. There is evidence, which has recently come
>> into the possession of the German Foreign Office that, in spite of all its
>> protestations of ignorance and helplessness, the British Cabinet
>> communicated the substance of Henderson's midnight conversation with the
>> German Foreign Minister directly to the Polish Government. The London Daily
>> Telegraph, in a late edition of August 31st, printed the following
>> statement:
>> "At the Cabinet Meeting yesterday, at which the terms of the British Note
>> were approved, it was decided to send a massage to Warsaw, indicating the
>> extent of the latest demands from Berlin for the annexation of territory".
>>
>> � � �This item appeared only in a few issues. It was suppressed in later
>> editions.
>>
>> � � �Germany's demands were so reasonable that no sane Polish Government
>> would have dared to reject them. They certainly would have been accepted if
>> England had advised moderation. There was one more chance to preserve peace
>> on September 2nd. It was offered by a message from Premier Mussolini
>> (Document 20). The Italian suggestion was acceptable to Germany and France
>> (Document 21). but was rejected by Great Britain (Document 22).
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> I
>> THE LAST PHASE
>> of the German-Polish Crisis
>> (pp.7-12)
>> � � �Appended to this are printed the documents which were exchanged during
>> the last days before the beginning of the German defensive action against
>> Poland and the intervention of the western Powers, or which in any other
>> respect refer to these events. These documents, when shortly recapitulated,
>> give the following general survey:
>> 1). � At the beginning of August the Reich Government was informed of an
>> exchange of notes between the representative of Poland in Danzig and the
>> Senate of the Free City (Danzig), according to which the Polish Government
>> in the form of a short-term ultimatum and under threat of retaliatory
>> measures had demanded the withdrawal of an alleged order of the Senate -- an
>> order which, in fact, had never been issued -- concerning the activities of
>> Polish customs inspectors (Documents 1 to 3).
>> � � �This caused the Reich Government to inform the Polish Government, on
>> August 9th, that a repetition of such demands in the form of an ultimatum
>> would lead to an aggravation of the relations between Germany and Poland,
>> for the consequences of which the Polish government would alone be
>> responsible.
>> � � �At the same time, the attention of the Polish Government was drawn to
>> the fact that the maintenance of the economic measures adopted by Poland
>> against Danzig would force the Free City to seek other export and import
>> possibilities (Document 4).
>> � � �The Polish government answered this communication from the Reich
>> Government with an aide-Memoire of August 10th, handed to the German Embassy
>> in Warsaw, which culminated in the statement that Poland would interpret
>> every intervention of the Reich Government in Danzig matters, which might
>> endanger Polish rights and interests there, as an aggressive action
>> (Document 5).
>>
>> 2). � On August 22nd, the British Prime Minister, Mr. Neville Chamberlain,
>> acting under the impression of announcements of the impending conclusion of
>> a Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and the U.S.S.R., sent a personal
>> letter to the Fuhrer. Here he expressed on the one hand the firm
>> determination of the British Government to fulfill its pledged obligations
>> to Poland, on the other hand, the view that it was most advisable in the
>> first instance to restore an atmosphere of confidence and then to solve the
>> German-Polish problems through negotiations terminating in a settlement
>> which should be internationally guaranteed (Document 6).
>> � � �The Fuhrer, in his reply of August 23rd, set forth the real causes of
>> the German-Polish crisis.
>> � � �He referred in particular to the generous proposal made by him in March
>> of this year and stated that the false reports spread by England at that
>> time regarding a German mobilization against Poland, the equally incorrect
>> assertions about Germany's aggressive intentions towards Hungary and
>> Roumania and, finally, the guarantee given by England and France to the
>> Polish Government had encouraged the Polish Government not only to decline
>> the German offer but to let loose a wave of terror against the Germans
>> domiciled in Poland and to strangle Danzig economically. At the same time,
>> the Fuhrer declared that Germany would not let herself be kept back from
>> protecting her vital rights by any methods of intimidation whatsoever
>> (Document 7).
>>
>> 3). � Although the above-mentioned letter from the British Prime Minister of
>> August 22nd, as well as speeches made on the subsequent day by British
>> statesmen, showed a complete lack of understanding for the German
>> standpoint, the Fuhrer nevertheless resolved to make a fresh attempt to
>> arrive at an understanding with England.
>> � � �On August 25th, he received the British Ambassador, once more with
>> complete frankness explained to him his conception of the situation, and
>> communicated to him the main principles of comprehensive and far-sighted
>> agreement between Germany and England which he would offer to the British
>> Government once the problem of Danzig and the Polish Corridor was settled
>> (Document 8).
>>
>> 4). � while the British government were discussing the preceding declaration
>> from the Fuhrer, and exchange of letters took place between the French
>> President, M. Daladier, and the Fuhrer. In his answer the Fuhrer again
>> submitted his reasons for Germany's standpoint in the German Polish question
>> and once more repeated his firm decision to regard the present Franco-German
>> frontier as final (Documents 9 and 10).
>>
>> 5). � In their answer to the step taken by the Fuhrer on August 25th, which
>> was handed over on the evening of August 28th, the British Government
>> declared themselves prepared to consider the proposal for a revision of
>> Anglo-German relationships. They further stated that a they had received a
>> definite assurance from the Polish Government that they were prepared to
>> enter into direct discussions with the reich Government on German-Polish
>> questions.
>> � � �At the same time they repeated that in their opinions a German-Polish
>> settlement must be safeguarded by international guarantees (Document 11).
>> � � �Despite grave misgivings arising from the whole of Poland's previous
>> attitude and despite justifiable doubts in a sincere willingness on the part
>> of the Polish Government for a direct settlement, the Fuhrer, in his answer
>> handed to the British Ambassador on the afternoon of August 29th, accepted
>> the British proposal and declared that the Reich Government awaited the
>> arrival of a Polish representative invested with plenipotentiary powers on
>> August 30th. At the same time the Fuhrer announced that the Reich Government
>> would immediately draft proposals for a solution acceptable to them and
>> would, if possible, have these ready for the British Government before the
>> Polish negotiator arrived (Document 12).
>>
>> 6). � In the course of August 30th, neither a Polish negotiator with
>> plenipotentiary powers nor any communication from the British Government
>> about steps undertaken by them reached Berlin. On the contrary, it was on
>> this day that the Reich Government were informed of the ordering of a
>> general Polish mobilization (document 13).
>> � � �Only at midnight did the British Ambassador hand over a new memorandum
>> which, however, failed to disclose any practical progress in the treatment
>> of Polish-German questions and confined itself to a statement that the
>> Fuhrer's answer of the preceding day was to be communicated to the Polish
>> Government and that the British Government considered it impracticable to
>> establish a German-Polish contact so early as on August 30th (Document 14).
>>
>> 7). � Although the non-appearance of the Polish negotiator had done away
>> with the conditions under which the British government were to be informed
>> of the Reich government's conception of the basis on which negotiations
>> might be possible, the proposals since formulated by the Reich were none the
>> less communicated and explained in detail to the British Ambassador when he
>> handed over the above-mentioned memorandum.
>> � � �The Reich Government expected that now at any rate, subsequently to
>> this, a Polish plenipotentiary would be appointed. Instead, the Polish
>> Ambassador in Berlin made a verbal declaration to the Reich Minister for
>> Foreign Affairs on the afternoon of August 31st, to the effect that the
>> Polish Government had been informed in the preceding night by the British
>> government that there was a possibility of direct negotiations between the
>> Reich Government and the Polish Government, and that the Polish Government
>> were favorably considering the British proposal.
>> � � �When expressly asked by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs whether
>> he had the authority to negotiate on the German proposals, the Ambassador
>> stated that he was not entitled to do so, but had merely been instructed to
>> make the foregoing verbal declaration. A further question from the Reich
>> Minister for Foreign Affairs whether he could enter into an objective
>> discussion on the matter was expressly denied by the Ambassador.
>>
>> 8). � The Reich Government thus were confronted with the fact that they had
>> spent two days waiting in vain for a Polish plenipotentiary. On the evening
>> of August 31st, they published the German proposals with a short account of
>> the events leading up to them (Document 15).
>> � � �These proposals were described as unacceptable by Polish broadcast
>> (Document 16).
>>
>> 9). � Now that every possibility for a peaceful settlement of the
>> Polish-German crisis was thus exhausted, the Fuhrer saw himself compelled to
>> resist by force the force which the Poles had long employed against Danzig,
>> against the Germans in Poland, and finally, by innumerable violations of the
>> frontier, against Germany.
>>
>> 10). � On the evening of September 1st, the Ambassadors of Great Britain and
>> France handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs two notes couched in
>> the same terms in which they demanded that Germany should withdraw her
>> troops from Polish territory, and declared that if this demand were not
>> conceded, their respective Governments would fulfill their obligations to
>> Poland without further delay (Documents 18 and 19).
>>
>> 11). � In order to banish the menace of war, which had come dangerously
>> close in consequence of these two notes, the Duce made a proposal for an
>> armistice and a subsequent conference for the settlement of the
>> German-Polish conflict (Document 20).
>> � � �The Germans and the French Government replied in the affirmative to
>> this proposal whilst the British Government refused to accept it (Documents
>> 21 and 11).
>> � � �That this was so was already apparent in the speeches made by the
>> British Prime Minister and the British Secretary of State for Foreign
>> Affairs on the afternoon of September 2nd in the British Houses of
>> Parliament, and a communication to that effect was made to the Reich
>> Minister for Foreign Affairs by the Italian Ambassador on the evening of
>> September 2nd. Thus also in the opinion of the Italian Government the
>> initiative of the Duce had been wrecked by England.
>>
>> 12). � On September 3rd, at 9 a.m., the British Ambassador arrived at the
>> German Foreign Office and handed over a note in which the British
>> Government, fixing a time limit of two hours, repeated their demand for a
>> withdrawal of the German troops and, in the event of a refusal, declared
>> themselves to be at war with Germany after this time limit had expired
>> (Document 23).
>>
>> � � �The British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on September 3rd,
>> 1939, at 11:15 a. m. delivered a note to the German Charge d'Affairs in
>> London in which he informed him that a state of war existed between the two
>> countries as from 11 a. m. on September 3rd (Document 24).
>>
>> � � �On the same day, at 11:30 a. m. the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs
>> handed to the British Ambassador in Berlin a memorandum from the Reich
>> Government in which the Reich rejected the demands expressed by the British
>> Government in the form of an ultimatum and in which it was proved that the
>> responsibility for the outbreak of war rested solely with the British
>> Government (Document 25).
>>
>> � � �On the afternoon of September 3rd, the French Ambassador in Berlin
>> called on the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs and inquired whether the
>> Reich government were in a position to give a satisfactory answer to the
>> question directed to them by the French government in their note of
>> September 1st. The Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs told the Ambassador
>> that after the English and French Notes of September had been handed to him,
>> the Head of the Italian Government had made a new intermediary proposal, to
>> which the Duce had added, the French Government had agreed.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government had informed the Duce on the preceding day that
>> they were also prepared to accept the proposal.
>>
>> � � �The Duce however had informed them later on in the day that his
>> proposal had been wrecked by the intransigent attitude of the British
>> Government.
>>
>> � � �The British Government several hours previously had presented German
>> with an ultimatum which had been rejected on the German side by a memorandum
>> which he, the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, would hand over to the
>> French Ambassador for his information.
>>
>> � � �Should the attitude of France towards Germany be determined by the same
>> considerations as that of the British Government, the Reich Minister for
>> Foreign Affairs could only regret this fact. �Germany had always sought
>> understanding with France. Should the French Government, despite this fact
>> adopt a hostile attitude towards Germany on account of their obligations
>> towards Poland, the German people would regard this as a totally
>> unjustifiable aggressive war on the part of France against the Reich.
>>
>> � � �The French Ambassador replied that he understood from the remarks of
>> the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs that the Reich Government were not in
>> a position to give a satisfactory answer to the French Note of September
>> 1st. Under these circumstances he had the unpleasant task of informing the
>> Reich Government that the French Government were forced to fulfill the
>> obligations which they had entered into towards Poland, from September 3rd
>> at 5 p.m. onwards.
>>
>> � � �The French Ambassador at the same time handed over a corresponding
>> written communication (CF, Document 26).
>>
>> � � �The Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs thereupon declared in conclusion
>> the the French Government would bear the full responsibility for the
>> suffering which the nations would have to bear if France attacked Germany.
>>
>> GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>> Concerning The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> II
>>
>> Documents
>> Documents 1 through 8 (of 26)
>>
>> 1. � First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>> in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>> of Danzig, august 4, 1939
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �I learn that the local Danzig customs officials posted on the frontier
>> between the Free City of Danzig and East Prussia have declared in an
>> unprecedented statement to the Polish customs officials, that the Danzig
>> executives intend from 7 o'clock a. m. on august 6th onwards to oppose a
>> certain number of Polish inspectors in the exercise of their normal duties,
>> which functions are a part of the prerogatives of the Polish government on
>> the customs frontier. I am convinced that this act on the part of the local
>> authorities depends either on a misunderstanding or on an erroneous
>> interpretation of the instructions of the Senate of the Free city of Danzig.
>>
>> � � �I am fully convinced that you, Mr. President of the Senate, can have no
>> doubt that this infringement of the fundamental rights of Poland will on no
>> pretext whatever be tolerated by the Polish Government.
>>
>> � � �I await, by august 5th at 6 p. m. at the latest, your answer with the
>> assurance that you have given instructions cancelling the action of your
>> subordinates.
>> � � �In view of the fact that the above-mentioned action is one of a series
>> which have taken place on the frontier, I am forced to warn you, mr.
>> president of the Senate, that all Polish customs inspectors have received
>> the order to appear for duty in uniform and bearing arms, on August 6th of
>> the current year and on subsequent days, at every point on the frontier
>> which they consider necessary for examination of the customs.
>>
>> � � �Every attempt made to hinder them in the exercise of their duties,
>> every attack or intervention on the part of the police will be regarded by
>> the Polish Government as an act of violence against the officials of the
>> Polish State in the pursuance of their duties.
>>
>> � � �If the above-mentioned illegal actions should take place, the Polish
>> Government will take retaliatory measures (retorsions) without delay against
>> the Free City, as the responsibility for them will rest entirely on the
>> Senate of the Free City.
>>
>> � � �I hope to receive a satisfactory explanation before the above-mentioned
>> date.
>>
>> (signed): CHODACKI,
>>
>> Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland.
>> ________________________________________
>> 2. � Second Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>> Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August 4,
>> 1939
>> (Translation)
>>
>> Danzig, August 4, 1939.
>>
>> � � �Mr. President of the Senate:
>> � � �The Polish Government beg to express its astonishment at the fact that
>> the Senate should find technical difficulties in replying to so simple a
>> matter. In the interest of avoiding threatening consequences, I note for the
>> time being that no act of violence will be undertaken against our customs
>> inspectors and that they will be able to proceed in a normal way with their
>> duties. I must repeat nevertheless that the admonitions contained in my note
>> of August 4th, 11:40 p. m. remain in force.
>>
>> � � �I beg to remain. . .
>>
>> (signed): CHODACKI
>>
>> To
>> His Excellency, Herr Arthur Greiser,
>> President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig
>> _____________________________________________
>> 3. � Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig to the
>> Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939.
>> (Translation)
>> Danzig, August 7, 1939
>>
>> His Excellency
>> The Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland.
>> M. Chodacki, Minister with plenipotentiary powers,
>> Danzig.
>>
>> Sir:
>> � � �In reply to your two notes dated the 4th of this month, the second of
>> which I received on August 5th, I must express my astonishment to you that
>> you should make a completely unverified rumor a pretext for sending the
>> Danzig Government a short-term ultimatum from the Polish Government, and
>> thus in this time of political unrest conjure up unfounded danger which may
>> result in inconceivable disaster.
>>
>> � � �The sudden decree of the Polish Government that all Polish customs
>> officials on duty are to appear in uniform and bearing arms, is a breach of
>> the arrangement agreed upon and can be understood only as an intentional
>> provocation to bring about incidents and acts of violence of the most
>> dangerous nature.
>> � � �According to facts which I have since ascertained and concerning which
>> I immediately telephoned to you on Saturday morning, the 5th inst., no order
>> announcing that the Danzig executives from August 6th at 7 a. m. onwards are
>> to oppose a certain number of Polish inspectors in the exercise of their
>> normal duties has been issued from an office, certainly not from any
>> administrative quarter of the Customs Office of the Free City of Danzig.
>>
>> � � �I refer you further to my note of June 3rd of this year, in which I
>> already carefully defined the relationship of the Danzig customs officials
>> and the Polish customs inspectors on the frontier.
>>
>> � � �The Danzig Government protest with great energy against the threatened
>> retorsions of the Polish Government which they regard as an absolutely
>> inadmissible threat and the consequences of which will devolve on the Polish
>> Government alone.
>>
>> � � �I beg to remain. . .
>>
>> (signed): GREISER
>> __________________________________________________
>> 4. � Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>> to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939.
>> (Translation)
>> Berlin, August 9, 1939.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government have received with great astonishment information
>> of the note of the Polish Government to the Senate of the Free City of
>> danzig, in which a demand was made in the form of an ultimatum to revoke an
>> alleged decree intended to hinder the Polish customs inspectors in the
>> exercise of their normal duties (which decree, however, was based on
>> unfounded rumors, and in reality had never been issued by the Senate of the
>> Free City of Danzig). In case of a refusal, the Free City of Danzig was
>> threatened with retaliatory measures.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government see themselves obliged to point out to the Polish
>> Government that the repetition of such a demand, in the form of an
>> ultimatum, to the Free City of Danzig and the threat of retaliatory measures
>> would lead to greater tension in the relationship between Germany and
>> Poland, and that the responsibility of such consequences would devolve
>> exclusively on the Polish Government, the German Government already now
>> declining all responsibility for them.
>>
>> � � �The German Government further draw the attention of the Polish
>> Government to the fact that the measures taken by the Polish Government to
>> prevent the import of certain goods from the Free City of Danzig to Poland
>> are likely to bring about serious economic loss to the population of Danzig.
>>
>> � � �Should the Polish Government insist on further lending their support to
>> such measures, there would, in the opinion of the Reich Government, be no
>> choice left to the Free City of Danzig, as matters lie, but to seek other
>> export and consequently import possibilities.
>> _____________________________________________________
>> 5. � Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>> Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939.
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �With the greatest surprise 'the Government of the Republic of Poland
>> have taken note of the declaration given in Berlin on August 9, 1939, by the
>> Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office to the Charge d'Affairs a.i.
>> of Poland on the relations existing between Poland and the Free City of
>> Danzig. The Polish Government in fact cannot perceive any legal foundation
>> justifying Germany to interfere in the above-mentioned relations.
>>
>> � � �Whatever discussions on the Danzig problem may have taken place between
>> the Polish Government and the Government of the Reich, these had their
>> foundation merely in the good will of the Government and did not arise out
>> of any obligation whatsoever.
>>
>> � � �In reply to the aforesaid declaration of the Government of the Reich,
>> the Polish Government are compelled to point out to the German Government
>> that, as hitherto, they will in the future oppose by such means and measures
>> as the Polish Government alone consider adequate, any attempt made by the
>> authorities of the Free City of Danzig to jeopardize the rights and
>> interests that Poland possesses in Danzig, on the basis of the agreement to
>> which she is a part, and that the Polish Government will consider as an
>> aggressive act any possible intervention of the Government of the Reich
>> which may endanger these rights and interests.
>> ________________________________________________________
>> 6. � Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, August 22, 1939.
>> 10. downing Street, Whitehall,
>> August 22, 1939.
>>
>> Your Excellency:
>>
>> � � �Your Excellency will have already heard of certain measures taken by
>> His Majesty's Government, and announced in the press and on the wireless
>> this evening.
>>
>> � � �These steps have, in the opinion of His Majesty's'y Government, been
>> rendered necessary by the military movements which have been reported from
>> Germany, and by the fact that apparently the announcement of a German-Soviet
>> Agreement is taken in some quarters in Berlin to indicate that intervention
>> by Great Britain on behalf of Poland is no longer a contingency that need be
>> reckoned with.
>>
>> � � �No greater mistake could be made. Whatever may prove to be the nature
>> of the German-Soviet Agreement, it cannot alter Great Britain's obligation
>> to Poland which His Majesty's Government have stated in public repeatedly
>> and plainly, and which they are determined to fulfill.
>>
>> � � �it has been alleged that, if His Majesty's Government had made their
>> position more clear in 1914, the great catastrophe would have been avoided.
>> Whether or not there is any force in that allegation, His Majesty's
>> Government are resolved that on this occasion there shall be no such tragic
>> misunderstanding.
>>
>> � � �If the case should arise, they are resolved, and prepared, to employ
>> without delay all the forces at their command, and it is impossible to
>> foresee the end of hostilities once engaged. It would be a dangerous
>> illusion to think that, if war once starts, it will come to an early end
>> even if a success on any one of the several fronts on which it will be
>> engaged should have been secured.
>>
>> � � �Having thus made our position perfectly clear, I wish to repeat to you
>> my conviction that war between our two peoples would be the greatest
>> calamity that could occur. I am certain that it is desired neither by our
>> people, nor by yours, and I cannot see that there is anything in the
>> questions arising between Germany and Poland which could not and should not
>> be resolved without the use of force, if only a situation of confidence
>> could be restored to enable discussions to be carried on in an atmosphere
>> different from that which prevails today.
>>
>> � � �We have been, and at all times will be, ready to assist in creating
>> conditions in which such negotiations could take place, and in which it
>> might be possible concurrently to discuss the wider problems affecting the
>> future of international relations, including matters of interest to us and
>> to you.
>>
>> � � �The difficulties in the way of any peaceful discussion in the present
>> state of tension are, however, obvious, and the longer that tension is
>> maintained, the harder will it be for reason to prevail.
>>
>> � � �These difficulties, however, might be mitigated, if not removed,
>> provided that there could for an initial period be a truce on both sides --
>> and indeed on all sides -- to press polemics and to all incitement.
>>
>> � � �If such a truce could be arranged, then, at the end of that period,
>> during which steps could be taken to examine and deal with complaints made
>> by either side as to the treatment of minorities, it is reasonable to hope
>> that suitable conditions might have been established for direct negotiations
>> between Germany and Poland upon the issues between them (with the aid of a
>> neutral intermediary, if both sides should think that that would be
>> helpful).
>>
>> � � �But I am bound to say that there would be slender hope of bringing such
>> negotiations to successful issue unless it were understood beforehand that
>> any settlement reached would, when concluded, be guaranteed by other Powers.
>> His Majesty's Government would be ready, if desired, to make such
>> contribution as they could to the effective operation of such guarantees.
>>
>> � � �At this moment I confess I can see no other way to avoid a catastrophe
>> that will involve Europe in war.
>>
>> � � �In view of the grave consequences to humanity, which may follow from
>> the action of their rulers, I trust that Your Excellency will weigh with the
>> utmost deliberation the considerations which I have put before you.
>>
>> (Signed): NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN.
>> ___________________________________________
>> 7. � The Fuhrer's Letter in reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23,
>> 1939.
>> (Translation)
>> August 23, 1939.
>>
>> Your Excellency:
>>
>> � � �The Ambassador to His Britannic Majesty has just handed me a note in
>> which Your Excellency, in the name of the British Government, has drawn
>> attention to a number of points, which, in your opinion, are of extreme
>> importance.
>>
>> � � �I beg to reply to your note as follows:
>> 1. � Germany has never sought to enter into conflict with Great Britain nor
>> at any time interfered where British interests were concerned. On the
>> contrary, Germany has for many years, although unfortunately without
>> success, attempted to gain the friendship for Great Britain. For this
>> reason, Germany voluntarily undertook a restriction of her own interests
>> throughout a large area in Europe which would otherwise have been difficult
>> to justify from a national political point of view.
>>
>> 2. � The German Reich, however, has, like every other state, certain
>> interests which it is impossible for it to renounce and which lie within the
>> category which Germany's past history and her economic necessities have
>> rendered of vital importance. Certain of these problems were, and are, of
>> the utmost importance to any German Government bot, from a national
>> political and from a psychological point of view.
>>
>> � � �One �of these problems is that of the German City of Danzig and the
>> problem of the Polish Corridor connected therewith. Only a few years ago
>> this fact was recognized by numerous statesmen, by authorities in historical
>> research and literary men, even in England.
>>
>> � � �I should like to add that the civilization of all those areas which
>> come within the sphere of German interests aforementioned, and especially
>> those provinces which have returned to the Reich within the past eighteen
>> months, was developed not by Englishmen but exclusively by Germans, and, in
>> part, during a period of history which covers more than the last thousand
>> years.
>>
>> 3. � Germany was prepared to settle the problem of Danzig and of the Polish
>> Corridor by a very generous proposal, made once for all, and by means of
>> negotiations. The assertions disseminated by Great Britain with regard to
>> the mobilization of German troops against Poland, the assertion concerning
>> aggressive intentions with regard to Roumania, Hungary, etc., as also the
>> more recent so-called guarantees given to Poland, effectually destroyed any
>> inclinations on the part of Poland to negotiate on a basis which would at
>> the same time be acceptable to germany.
>>
>> 4. � �The general assurance given by Great Britain to Poland that Great
>> Britain would support Poland in case of conflict in any circumstance,
>> irrespective of the causes giving rise to such conflict, could only be
>> regarded here as an incitement to let loose, under cover of what might be
>> termed a bland cheque, a wave of unspeakable terror against the one and a
>> half million Germans domiciled in Poland.
>>
>> � � �The atrocities which have taken place there since that time were
>> terrible indeed for those on whom they were inflicted, but intolerable for
>> the German Reich, which, as one of the Great Powers, was expected to watch
>> them idly.
>>
>> � � �In regard to the Free city of Danzig, Poland has, on countless
>> occasions, infringed its rights, sent demands which were in the nature of an
>> ultimatum and begun a process of economic strangulation.
>>
>> 5. � � The Reich government informed the Polish government a short time ago
>> that they were not inclined to accept these developments in silence, that
>> they would not tolerate the dispatch of further notes couched in the form of
>> an ultimatum to Danzig, that they would not tolerate a continuance of acts
>> of violence inflicted on the German section of the population, nor would
>> they tolerate the ruin of the Free City of Danzig by means of economic
>> pressure, that is to say, the destruction of the very existence of the
>> population of Danzig by a form of customs blockade, nor would they tolerate
>> the continuance of such acts of provocation against the Reich. Regardless of
>> the above, a solution must and will be found for the problem of Danzig and
>> of the Polish Corridor.
>>
>> 6. � Your Excellency informs me in the name of the British Government that
>> in the event of any act of interference on the part of Germany, you will be
>> compelled to support Poland. I have taken due note of your statement and can
>> assure you that it can in no way shake the determination of the Reich
>> government to protect the interests of the Reich as set forth in Section 5.
>>
>> � � �I likewise agree with your assurance that the ensuing war would, in
>> this case, be a long one. If Germany is attacked by Britain, she is prepared
>> and determined to fight.
>>
>> � � �I have often declared to the German people and to the whole world that
>> there can be no doubts as to the determination of the New German Reich to
>> accept privation and misfortune in any form and at any time rather than
>> sacrifice her national interests or even her honor.
>>
>> 7. � The Reich Government have received information of the fact that the
>> British Government intend to carry out mobilization measures, which in their
>> nature are solely directed against Germany, as is stated in Your
>> Excellency's note addressed to me. This is stated also to apply to France.
>>
>> � � �As Germany never intended to adopt military measures other than those
>> of a purely defensive nature against either Great Britain or France and, as
>> has already been emphasized, never intended nor in the future intends to
>> attack either Great Britain or France, the announcement which Your
>> Excellency confirmed in your note can only constitute an intended threat
>> against the Reich. I must therefore, inform Your Excellency that in the
>> event of such military measures being taken, I shall order the immediate
>> mobilization of the German armed forces.
>>
>> 8. � The question of a settlement of European problems in a peaceful spirit
>> cannot be decided by Germany but chiefly by those who, since the crime of
>> the Treaty of Versailles was committed, have steadily and obstinately
>> opposed any peaceful revision of its terms.
>>
>> � � �Only a change of attitude on the part of the Powers responsible for the
>> Treaty can bring about a change for the better in the existing relations
>> between Britain and Germany.
>>
>> � � �During my whole life-time I have struggled to achieve a friendship
>> between Britain and Germany, but the attitude adopted by British diplomacy,
>> up to the present at least, has served to convince me of the hopelessness of
>> such an attempt. If the future were to bring a change in this respect, none
>> would welcome it more than I.
>> _________________________________________________
>> 8. � Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on August 25,
>> 2939, at 1:30 p.m.
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer declared at the outset that the British Ambassador at the
>> close of their last conversation had expressed the hope that it would still
>> prove possible to arrive at an understanding between Germany and England.
>> He, the Fuhrer, had thereupon considered the situation once more and
>> intended today to take a step in regard to England which was to be as
>> decisive as the step taken in regard to Russia, the result of which had been
>> the recent pact.
>>
>> � � �Yesterday's meeting of the House of Commons and the speeches made by
>> Mr. chamberlain and Lord Halifax were further reasons why the Fuhrer had
>> again invited the British Ambassador to meet him.
>>
>> � � �The assertion that Germany wanted to conquer the world was ridiculous.
>> � � �The British Empire covered a territory of forty million square
>> kilometers, Russia of nineteen million square kilometers, America of nine
>> and a half million square kilometers and Germany of less than 600,000 square
>> kilometers. It was thus quite clear who wanted to conquer the world.
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer informed the British Ambassador of the following:
>> 1) �The acts of provocation committed by Poland had become intolerable,
>> irrespective of who might be responsible for them.
>> � � �If the Polish government contested their responsibility, this merely
>> proved that they themselves had no longer any influence on their military
>> subordinates. In the preceding night twenty-one new frontier incidents had
>> occurred.
>>
>> � � �On the German side the utmost discipline had been displayed. All the
>> incidents were due to Polish provocation.
>> � � �Besides this, civil aeroplanes had been fire on. If the Polish
>> Government declared themselves not responsible, this merely proved that they
>> were unable to keep control over their own people.
>>
>> 2) �Germany was resolved under all circumstances to put an end to these
>> Macedonian conditions on her eastern frontier, not only in the interests of
>> law and order but also for the sake of European peace.
>>
>> 3. �The problem of Danzig and the Corridor would have to be solved.
>> � � �The British Prime Minister had made a speech which had done nothing
>> towards bringing about a change in the German attitude. This speech might,
>> if anything, give rise to a desperate and incalculable war between Germany
>> and england, a war which would cause far greater bloodshed than that of
>> 1914.
>> � � �In contrast to the last world war, Germany would not have to carry on a
>> war on two fronts. The agreement concluded with Russia was unconditional and
>> represented a turning point in the foreign policy of the Reich for the
>> longest conceivable time. In no circumstance would Russia and Germany again
>> take up arms against one another. Apart from this fact the agreements made
>> with Russia would safeguard Germany, in economic respects also, for a war of
>> the longest duration.
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer had always been strongly in favor of Anglo-German
>> understanding. A war between england and Germany could in the most favorable
>> circumstances bring Germany an advantage, but certainly not the slightest
>> gain to England.
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer declared that the German-Polish problem had to and would be
>> settled. He was, however, ready and resolved to approach England again,
>> after his settlement, with a generous and comprehensive offer. He himself
>> was a man of great decisions and he would in this case also be capable of a
>> great action. he approved of the British Empire and was prepared to give a
>> personal undertaking for its existence and to stake the might of the German
>> Reich to that end provided that:
>> 1) �His Colonial demands, which were limited and could be settled by
>> peaceful negotiations, were fulfilled, for which he was prepared to concede
>> a most protracted time-limit;
>>
>> 2) �that his obligations to Italy remained untouched; in other words the
>> Fuhrer did not expect England to give up her French obligations and could
>> for his part not abandon his Italian obligations;
>>
>> 3) �he wished also to emphasize Germany's unalterable resolution never again
>> to enter into a conflict with Russia.
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer would then be prepared to enter into agreements with Great
>> Britain which, as he had already emphasized, would not only, on the German
>> side, in any case safeguard the existence of the British empire, but if
>> necessary would guarantee German assistance for the British empire,
>> irrespective of where such assistance might be required. The Fuhrer would
>> then also be ready to accept a reasonable limitation of armaments, in
>> accordance with the new political situation and economic requirements.
>> finally the Fuhrer renewed his assurance that he was not interested in
>> western problems and that he did not for one moment consider any frontier
>> correction in the west.
>>
>> � � �The western line of fortification which had cost billions, was the
>> final frontier of the Reich in the west.
>>
>> � � �If the British Government would consider these suggestions, they might
>> end in a blessing not only for Germany but also for the British Empire. If
>> the British Government rejected the suggestions, war would be inevitable. In
>> no circumstances, however, would such a war add to the strength of Great
>> Britain. That this was true, the last war had amply proved.
>>
>> � � �The Fuhrer repeated that he was a man of great decisions to which he
>> felt himself bound, and that this was his final proposal. Immediately after
>> the settlement of the German-Polish question he would approach the British
>> Government with an offer.
>>
>> German White Book - Documents
>> Concerning the Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> Documents 9 through 13 (of 26)
>> 9. � Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August 26, 1939
>> (Translation)
>> Paris, August 29, 1939.
>>
>> Your Excellency:
>>
>> � � �The French Ambassador in Berlin has brought your personal message to my
>> knowledge.
>>
>> � � �At an hour when you speak of the gravest responsibility which two Heads
>> of Government can be asked to take, namely, that of shedding the blood of
>> two great peoples desiring only peace and work, I owe it to you personally
>> and to our respective nations to state that the fate of peace still rests in
>> your hands.
>> � � �You cannot doubt my feelings towards Germany, or the friendly feelings
>> of France for your nation. No Frenchman has done more than I have to ensure
>> not only peace between our two peoples, but also sincere cooperation in your
>> own interests as well as in those of Europe and of the world.
>>
>> � � �Unless you are prepared to credit the French nation with a lower ideal
>> of honor than the one with which I credit the German people, you cannot
>> doubt that France will faithfully fulfill her obligations towards other
>> powers which, like Poland, are, I am convinced, desirous of living at peace
>> with Germany.
>>
>> � � �Both convictions are fully compatible with one another.
>>
>> � � �To this day there is nothing which might prevent a peaceful solution of
>> the international crisis in a spirit of honor and dignity for all nations as
>> long as the same will for peace prevails on all sides.
>>
>> � � �Together with the good will of France I proclaim that of all her
>> allies. �I personally guarantee the readiness always shown by Poland to have
>> mutual recourse to methods of free conciliation such as can be envisaged
>> between the Governments of two sovereign nations. With a perfectly clear
>> conscience I can give you an assurance that among the differences which have
>> arisen between Germany and Poland with regard to the Danzig question, there
>> is not a single one which could not be submitted to such a procedure with a
>> view to finding a just and peaceful solution.
>>
>> � � �Upon my honor I can also state that in the clear and sincere solidarity
>> of France with Poland and her allies there is nothing that might in any way
>> impair the peaceful disposition of my country. This solidarity has never
>> prevented us from supporting this peaceful disposition in Poland, and it
>> does not do so today.
>> � � �At so critical a moment I sincerely believe that no noble-minded person
>> could understand how a war of destruction could be waged without a final
>> attempt at a peaceful settlement between Germany and Poland having been
>> undertaken. Your desire for peace could exercise its influence with full
>> determination towards this end without detracting anything from Germany's
>> honor. As Head of the French Government, desirous of attaining full harmony
>> between the French and the German nation, yet bound on the other hand to
>> Poland by ties of friendship and my pledged word, I am prepared to make
>> every effort that an honorable man can make to bring this endeavor to a
>> successful end.
>>
>> � � �Like myself you were a soldier in the last war. �You know as well as I
>> do the feelings of disgust and universal condemnation which the destruction
>> caused by war left in the conscience of all nations, irrespective of its
>> issue. The idea which I cherish of your great part as leader of the German
>> nation on the road to peace towards the fulfillment of its tasks in the
>> common effort towards civilization, prompts me to ask you for an answer to
>> this my proposal.
>>
>> � � �Should French and German blood once more have to flow, just as it did
>> twenty-five years ago, in an even longer and more murderous war, each nation
>> will fight fully confident of its ultimate victory. Yet we can be sure that
>> ruin and barbarity will be the most certain victors.'
>>
>> (Signed) DALADIER
>> __________________________________________________
>> 10. � The Fuhrer's Letter in reply to the French Premier, August 27, 1939.
>> Berlin, August 27, 1939
>>
>> Your Excellency:
>>
>> � � �I appreciate the concern you have expressed. �I have always been
>> equally conscious of the grave responsibility place upon those who must
>> decide the fate of nations. As an ex-soldier, I know as well as you do the
>> horrors of war. �This spirit and knowledge have guided me in a sincere
>> endeavor to remove all causes of conflict between our two nations.
>>
>> � � �I once told the French people quite frankly that the return of the Saar
>> territory would be the basis for the achievement of this aim. Once that
>> territory was returned I immediately solemnly renounced any further claims
>> which might affect France.
>>
>> � � �The German people approved of my attitude. �As you were able to see for
>> yourself when you were in Germany last, the German people, conscious of the
>> way they themselves behaved, did not and still do not entertain any
>> animosity or still less hatred against their former brave opponents. On the
>> contrary; once peace was definitely established along our western frontier,
>> there cam an increasing sympathy, at any rate on the part of the German
>> nation -- a sympathy markedly demonstrated on many occasions.
>>
>> � � �The construction of the great western fortifications which have cost
>> and will still cost many billion Marks, is documentary evidence that Germany
>> has accepted and fixed the final frontier of the Reich. In doing so, the
>> German people renounced two provinces which once belonged to the old German
>> Reich, were later on regained at the price of many lives, and were finally
>> defended at the price of still more lives.
>>
>> � � �Your Excellency will admit that this renunciation was not merely a
>> gesture for tactical reasons but a decision confirmed by all our subsequent
>> measures.
>> � � �You cannot, Excellency, cite a single instance in which this final
>> settlement of the German frontier in the West has ever been disputed by one
>> line or word. �I believed that by this renunciation and by this attitude
>> every possible cause of conflict between our two nations, which might have
>> led to a repetition of the tragic years of 1914 to 1918, had been
>> eliminated.
>>
>> � � �This voluntary limitation of German claims in the West cannot however
>> be regarded as an acceptance of the Dictate of Versailles in all other
>> fields.
>> � � �Year by year I have tried earnestly to achieve the revision of at least
>> the most impossible and most unbearable of all the conditions of this
>> Dictate through negotiation. �This proved impossible. �Many enlightened men
>> of all nations believed and were convinced that revision was bound to come.
>> Whatever objection may be raised against my methods, whatever fault may be
>> found with them, it cannot be overlooked or denied that I succeeded without
>> any more bloodshed in finding solutions which were in many cases
>> satisfactory not only for Germany.
>>
>> � � �By the manner in which these solutions were accomplished, statesmen of
>> other nations were relieved of their obligation, which they often found
>> impossible to fulfill, of having to accept responsibility for this revision
>> before their own people.
>>
>> � � �One thing I fee sure Your Excellency will admit, namely, that the
>> revision was bound to come. The Dictate of Versailles was unbearable. No
>> Frenchman with a sense of honor and certainly not you, M. Daladier, would
>> have acted differently in a similar position than I did. I therefore tried
>> to remove this most insane stipulation of the Dictate of Versailles. I made
>> an offer to the Polish Government which actually shocked the German people.
>>
>> � � �No one but I could have dared to come forward with such a proposal.
>> Therefore I could only make it once. I am firmly convinced that if Poland at
>> that time had been advised to take a sensible course instead of being
>> incited by a wild campaign of the British press against Germany, accompanied
>> by rumors of German mobilization, then Europe would today be able to enjoy a
>> state of profound peace for the next twenty-five years.
>>
>> � � �Actually, it was the lie about German aggression that excited public
>> opinion in Poland; the Polish Government were handicapped in making
>> necessary and clear decisions and, above all, their judgment on the extent
>> of Poland's possibilities was clouded by the subsequent promise of a
>> guarantee.
>>
>> [The guarantee England made to Poland that England would come to Poland's
>> defense if hostilities ensued. It was, as Hitler said, "a blank cheque for
>> the Polish government to continue its abuse and oppression of the Germans
>> caught in that 'country' -- Poland -- that was created at Versailles.]
>>
>> � � �The Polish Government rejected the proposals.
>>
>> � � �Firmly convinced that Britain and France would now fight for Poland,
>> Polish public opinion began to raise demands which might best be described
>> as sheer lunacy were they not so extraordinarily dangerous. At that time
>> unbearable terrorism se in; physical and economic oppression of the more
>> than one and a half millions of Germans living in the territories severed
>> from the Reich. I do not intent to speak of the atrocities which have
>> occurred.
>>
>> � � �Even in Danzig, the outrages committed by the Polish authorities fully
>> created the impression that the city was apparently hopelessly delivered up
>> to the arbitrary action of a power that is foreign to the national character
>> of the city and its population.
>>
>> � � �May I ask you, M. Daladier, how you as a Frenchman would act if, by the
>> unfortunate ending of a bravely-fought war, one of your provinces were
>> separated by a corridor in the possession of an alien power, and a large
>> city -- let us say Marseilles -- were prevented from bearing allegiance to
>> France, while Frenchmen in this territory were being persecuted, beaten,
>> maltreated and even murdered in a bestial manner.
>>
>> � � �You are a Frenchman, M. Daladier, and I therefore know how you would
>> act. I am a German, M. Daladier, and you will not doubt my sense of honor
>> and my sense of duty which make me act in exactly the same way.
>>
>> � � �If you had to face a calamity such as confronts us, would you, M.
>> Daladier, understand how Germany, for no reason at all, could use her
>> influence to ensure that such a corridor through France should remain?
>>
>> � � �That the stolen territories should not be returned, and that Marseilles
>> should be forbidden to join France?
>>
>> � � �I certainly cannot imagine Germany fighting you for such a cause. I,
>> for Germany, renounced our claim to Alsace-Lorraine in order to avoid
>> further bloodshed. Still less would we shed blood in order to maintain such
>> an injustice as I have pictured, which would be as intolerable for you as it
>> would be meaningless for us.
>>
>> � � �My feelings on everything expressed in your letter, M. Daladier, are
>> the same as yours. Perhaps we, as ex-soldiers, should readily understand
>> each other on many points. Yet I would ask you to appreciate also this:
>> namely, that no nation with a sense of honor can ever give up almost two
>> million people and see them maltreated on its own frontiers.
>>
>> � � �I therefore formulated a clear demand: Danzig and the Corridor must
>> return to Germany. The Macedonian conditions prevailing along our eastern
>> frontier must cease. I see no possibility of persuading Poland, who deems
>> herself safe from attack by virtue of the guarantees given to her, to agree
>> to a peaceful solution.
>>
>> � � �Unless we are determined under the circumstances to solve the question
>> one way or the other, I would despair of an honorable future for my country.
>> � � �If fate decrees that our two peoples should fight one another once more
>> over this question, it would be from different motives. I for my part, M.
>> Daladier, would fight with my people for the reparation of an injustice,
>> while the others would fight for its retention.
>>
>> � � �This is all the more tragic in view of the fact that many great men of
>> your nation have long since recognized the folly of the solution found in
>> 1919 and the impossibility of keeping it up for ever. I am fully conscious
>> of the grave consequences which such a conflict would involve. �But I think
>> that Poland would suffer most, for whatever the issue of such a war, the
>> Polish State of today would in any case be lost.
>>
>> � � �That our two peoples should now engage in another murderous war of
>> destruction causes me as much pain as it does you, M. Daladier.
>> Unfortunately, as stated earlier in my letter, I see no possibility open to
>> us of influencing Poland to take a saner attitude and thus to remedy a
>> situation which is unbearable for both the German people and the German
>> Reich.
>>
>> (signed) ADOLF HITLER.
>> ________________________________________________________
>> 11. � Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Fuhrer by the
>> British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p. m.
>>
>> 1. � His Majesty's Government have received the message conveyed to them
>> from the German Chancellor by H.M. Ambassador in Berlin and have considered
>> it with the care which it demands.
>>
>> � � �They note the Chancellor's expression of his desire to make friendship
>> the basis of the relations between Germany and the British Empire and they
>> fully share this desire. they believe with him that if a complete and
>> lasting understanding between the two countries could be established it
>> would bring untold blessings to both peoples.
>>
>> 2. � The Chancellor's message deals with two groups of questions: -- those
>> which are the matters now in dispute between Germany and Poland, and those
>> affecting the ultimate relations of Germany and Great Britain.
>>
>> � � � In connection with these last, His Majesty's Government observe that
>> the German Chancellor has indicated certain proposals which, subject to one
>> condition, he would be prepared to make to the British Government for a
>> general understanding. These proposals are of course stated in very general
>> form and would require closer definition, but His Majesty's Government are
>> fully prepared to take them, with some additions, as subjects for discussion
>> and they would be ready, if the differences between Germany and Poland are
>> peacefully composed, to proceed so soon as practicable to such discussion
>> with a sincere desire to reach agreement.
>>
>> 3. � � The condition which the German Chancellor lays down is that there
>> must first be a settlement of the differences between Germany and Poland. As
>> to that, His Majesty's Government entirely agree. �Everything, however,
>> turns upon the nature of the settlement and the method by which it is to be
>> reached. On these points, the importance of which cannot be absent from the
>> Chancellor's mind, his message is silent, and His Majesty's Government will
>> be aware that His Majesty's Government have obligations to Poland by which
>> they are bound and which they intend to honor.
>>
>> � � �They could not, for any advantage offered to Great Britain, acquiesce
>> in a settlement which put in jeopardy the independence of a State to whom
>> they have given their guarantee.
>>
>> 4. � �In the opinion of His Majesty's Government a reasonable solution for
>> the differences between Germany and Poland could and should be effected by
>> agreement between the two countries on lines which would include the
>> safeguarding of Poland's essential interest, and they recall that in his
>> speech of the 28th of April last the German Chancellor recognized the
>> importance of these interests to Poland.
>>
>> � � �But as was stated by the Prime Minister in his letter to the German
>> Chancellor of the 22nd of August, His Majesty's Government consider it
>> essential for the success of the discussions which would precede the
>> agreement that it should be understood before hand that any settlement
>> arrived at would be guaranteed by other Powers. His Majesty's Government
>> would be ready if desired to make their contribution to the effective
>> operation of such a guarantee.
>>
>> � In view of His Majesty's Government it follows that the next step should
>> be the initiation of direct discussions between the German and Polish
>> Governments on a basis which would include the principles stated above,
>> namely the safeguarding of Poland's essential interests and the securing of
>> the settlement by an international guarantee.
>>
>> � � �They have already received a definite assurance from the Polish
>> Government that they are prepared to enter into discussions on this basis,
>> and His Majesty's Government hope the German government would for their part
>> also be willing to agree to this course.
>>
>> � � �If, as His Majesty's government hope, such discussion let to agreement
>> the way would be open to the negotiation of that wider and more complete
>> understanding between Great Britain and Germany which both countries desire.
>>
>> 5. � His Majesty's Government agree with the German Chancellor that one of
>> the principal dangers in the German-Polish situation arises from the report
>> concerning the treatment of minorities. The present state of tension, with
>> its concomitant frontier incidents, reports of maltreatment and inflammatory
>> propaganda, is a constant danger to peace.
>>
>> � � �It is manifestly a matter of the utmost urgency that all incidents of
>> the kind should be promptly and rigidly suppressed and that unverified
>> reports should not be allowed to circulate, in order that time may be
>> afforded, without provocation on either side, for a full examination of the
>> possibilities of settlement. His Majesty's Government are confident that
>> both governments concerned are fully alive to these considerations.
>>
>> 6. � His Majesty's Government have said enough to make their own attitude
>> plain in the particular matters at issue between Germany and Poland. They
>> trust that the German Chancellor will not think that, because His Majesty's
>> Government are scrupulous concerning their obligations to Poland, they are
>> not anxious to use all their influence to assist the achievement of a
>> solution which may comment itself both to Germany and to Poland.
>>
>> � � �That such a settlement should be achieved seems to His Majesty's
>> Government essential, not only for reasons directly arising in regard to the
>> settlement itself, but also because of the wider considerations of which the
>> German Chancellor has spoken with such conviction.
>>
>> 7. � It is unnecessary in the present reply to stress the advantage of a
>> peaceful settlement over a decision to settle the questions at issue by
>> force of arms. The results of a decision to use force have been clearly set
>> out in the Prime Minister's letter to the Chancellor of the 22nd of August,
>> and His Majesty's Government do not doubt that they are as fully recognized
>> by the Chancellor as by themselves.
>>
>> � � �On the other hand His Majesty's government, noting with interest the
>> German Chancellor's reference in the message now under consideration to a
>> limitation of armaments, believe that, if a peaceful settlement can be
>> obtained, the assistance of the world could confidently be anticipated for
>> practical measures to enable the transition from preparation for war to the
>> normal activities of peaceful trade to be safely and smoothly effected.
>>
>> 8. � A just settlement of these questions between Germany and Poland may
>> open the way to world peace. Failure to reach it would ruin the hopes of
>> better understanding between Germany and Great Britain, would bring the two
>> countries into conflict, and might well plunge the whole world into war.
>> Such an outcome would be a calamity without parallel in history.
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> l2. � The Fuhrer's Reply to the British Government handed to the British
>> Ambassador on August 29, 1939, at 6:45 p. m.
>> (Translation)
>> August 29, 1939.
>>
>> � � �The British Ambassador in Berlin has informed the British government of
>> certain suggestions which I felt it incumbent upon me to put forward, in
>> order:
>> 1. � to express once more the desire of the German Government for sincere
>> Anglo-German understanding, cooperation and friendship;
>>
>> 2. �to leave no room for doubt that such an understanding cannot be
>> purchased at the expense of Germany's renunciation of her vital interests or
>> even by the sacrifice of claims based just as much on general human rights
>> as on the national dignity and honor of our nation.
>>
>> � � �It was with satisfaction that the German Government learned from the
>> written reply of the British government and the verbal declarations of the
>> British Ambassador, that the British government for their part also prepared
>> to improve Anglo-German relations and to develop and to foster these in the
>> spirit of the German suggestions.
>>
>> � � �The British government are likewise convinced that the removal of the
>> tension between Germany and Poland, which has become intolerable, is
>> indispensable if this hope is to be realized.
>>
>> � � �Since the autumn of 1938 and for the last time in March 1939, verbal
>> and written proposals have been submitted to the Polish Government, which in
>> consideration of the friendship then existing between Germany and Poland,
>> might have let to a settlement of the questions under dispute which would
>> have been acceptable to both parties.
>>
>> � � �The British government are aware that the Polish government saw fit to
>> reject these proposals finally in March of this year. At the same time the
>> Polish government made their rejection a pretext or an occasion for the
>> adoption of military measures which have since then been continued on an
>> ever-increasing scale. Poland had, in fact, mobilized as early as the middle
>> of the month.
>>
>> � � �In connection with the mobilization, numerous incidents took place in
>> the Free City of Danzig at the instigation of the Polish authorities, and
>> demands of a more or less threatening character amounting to an ultimatum
>> were addressed to the Free city of Danzig. The closing of the frontier,
>> which was at first in the nature of a custom measure, was afterwards carried
>> out on military lines and was extended to affect traffic with the object of
>> bringing about the political disintegration and the economic ruin of the
>> German community.
>>
>> � � �Furthermore, the large group of Germans living in Poland was subjected
>> to atrocious and barbarous ill treatment and to other forms of persecution
>> which resulted in some cases in the death by violence of many Germans
>> domiciled there or in their deportation under the most cruel circumstances.
>> � � �Such a situation is intolerable for a Great Power and has now forced
>> Germany after months of inactive observation to undertake the necessary
>> steps for the protection of her rightful interests. The German Government
>> can only most seriously assure the British Government that that state of
>> affairs has now been reached for which continued acquiescence or even
>> inactive observation is no longer possible.
>>
>> � � �The demands of the German government imply a revision of the Treaty of
>> Versailles in this area, a fact which was recognized as necessary from the
>> very outset; they constitute the return of Danzig and the Polish Corridor to
>> Germany and the safeguarding of the German minorities domiciled in those
>> territories remaining in Polish possession.
>>
>> � � �the Reich Government note with satisfaction that the British Government
>> are also convinced on principle that some solution must be found for the
>> state of affairs which has now developed. They further consider they may
>> assume that the British Government entertain no doubt on the fact that this
>> is a state of affairs which can no longer be remedied in a matter of days or
>> even weeks but for which perhaps only a few hours yet remain. For in view of
>> the disorganized state of Poland we must at any moment be prepared for the
>> possibility of events occurring which Germany could not possibly tolerate.
>>
>> � � �If the British Government still believe that these grave differences
>> can be solved by direct negotiations, the Reich Government on their part
>> regret at the outset that they are unable to share such an opinion. They
>> have already tried to open up a way for peaceful negotiations of this
>> nature, without meeting with the support of the Polish government, and only
>> seeing their efforts rejected by the abrupt initiation of measures of a
>> military character in accordance with the general development indicated
>> above.
>>
>> � � �There are two factors which the British Government consider important:
>> 1. �to remove most speedily the imminent danger of a conflagration by means
>> of direct negotiations, and
>>
>> 2. �to give the necessary economic and political safeguards by means of
>> international guarantees for the future existence of the remaining Polish
>> State.
>>
>> � � �Despite their skeptical judgment of the prospects of such direct
>> negotiations, the Reich Government are nevertheless prepared to accept the
>> English proposal, and to enter into direct discussions. They do so solely
>> because -- as already emphasized -- the written communication from the
>> British Government, which they have received, gives them the impression that
>> the latter also desire a friendly agreement along the lines indicated to
>> their Ambassador, Sir Nevile Henderson.
>>
>> � � �The German Government desire in this way to give to the British
>> Government and to the British people a proof of the sincerity of the German
>> intention of arriving at a state of permanent friendship with Great Britain.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government nevertheless feel bound to point out to the
>> British Government that in the case of a reorganization of the territorial
>> condition in Poland, the Reich Government are no longer in a position to
>> take upon themselves any guarantees, or to participate in any guarantees,
>> without the cooperation of the U.S.S.R.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government in their proposals moreover never had the
>> intentions of attacking vital Polish interests or of questioning the
>> existence of an independent Polish state. Under these conditions, the Reich
>> Government therefore agree to accept the proposed intermediation of the
>> British Government to send to Berlin a Polish representative invested with
>> plenipotentiary powers. They expect his arrival on Wednesday, August 30,
>> 1939.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government will immediately draft the proposals for a
>> solution acceptable to them and, if possible, will make such proposals also
>> available for the British government before the Polish negotiator arrives.
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> 13. � Telephone Message from the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>> German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939, at 5:30 p. m.
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �Notices ordering a general mobilization have been posted in Poland for
>> one hour. The first day of mobilization is August 31st; everybody in
>> possession of a white mobilization card must report at once.
>>
>> German White Book - Documents
>> Concerning the Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> Documents 14 through 16 (of 26)
>>
>> 14. �Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister for
>> Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at midnight.
>>
>> � � �1. � His Majesty's Government appreciate the friendly reference in the
>> declaration contained in the reply of the German Government to the latter's
>> desire for an Anglo-German understanding and to their statement of the
>> influence which this consideration has exercised upon their policy.
>>
>> � � �2. � His Majesty's Government repeat that they reciprocate the German
>> government's desire for an improvement in relations, but it will be
>> recognized that they could not sacrifice the interests of friends in order
>> to obtain that improvement. They fully understand that the German Government
>> cannot sacrifice Germany's vital interests, but the Polish government are in
>> the same position, and His Majesty's Government believe that the vital
>> interests of the two countries are not incompatible.
>>
>> � � �3. � His Majesty's government note that the German Government accept
>> the British proposal and are prepared to enter into direct discussions with
>> the Polish Government.
>>
>> � � �4. � His Majesty's Government understand that the German government
>> accept in principle the condition that any settlement should be made subject
>> to an international guarantee. the question of who shall participate in this
>> guarantee will have to be discussed further, and His Majesty's Government
>> hope that to avoid loss of time the German Government will take immediate
>> steps to obtain the assent of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics whose
>> participation in the guarantee His Majesty's Government have always assumed.
>>
>> � � �5. � His Majesty's Government also note that the German Government
>> accept the position of the British government as to Poland's vital interests
>> and independence.
>>
>> � � �6. � His Majesty's government must make an express reservation in
>> regard to the statement of particular demands put forward by the German
>> Government in an earlier passage in their reply. They understand that the
>> German Government are drawing up proposals for a solution. No doubt these
>> proposals will be fully examined during the discussions. It can then be
>> determined how far they are compatible with the essential conditions which
>> His Majesty's Government have stated and which the German Government have
>> expressed their willingness to accept.
>>
>> � � �7. � His Majesty's government are at once informing the Polish
>> Government of the German Government's reply. The method of contact and the
>> arrangements for discussions must obviously be agreed with all urgency
>> between the German government and the Polish government, but in His
>> Majesty's Government's view it would be impracticable to establish contact
>> so early as today.
>>
>> � � �8. � His Majesty's Government fully recognize the need for speed in the
>> initiation of discussions and they share the apprehensions of the Chancellor
>> arising from the proximity of two mobilized armies standing face to fact.
>> They would accordingly most strongly urge that both parties should undertake
>> that during negotiations no aggressive military movements will take place.
>>
>> � � �His Majesty's Government feel confident that they could obtain such an
>> undertaking from the Polish Government, if the German Government would give
>> similar assurances.
>>
>> � � �9. � � Further His Majesty's Government would suggest that a temporary
>> modus vivendi might be arranged for Danzig, which might prevent the
>> occurrence of incidents tending to render German-Polish relations more
>> difficult.
>> ____________________________________________________
>> 15. � Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9 p. m.
>> containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>> Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>> Polish Minorities.
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �In a note dated August 28, 1939, addressed to the German government,
>> the British Government declared themselves prepared to offer their services
>> as intermediaries in arranging direct negotiations between Germany and
>> Poland for the settlement of the problems under dispute. In this note they
>> left no room for doubt that in view of the continued incidents and the
>> general state of tension throughout Europe they also were aware of the
>> urgency of such action.
>>
>> � � �In spite of their skepticism regarding the willingness of the Polish
>> Government to reach any agreement, the German government, in a reply dated
>> August 29, 1939, declared themselves prepared in the interests of peace to
>> accept British intermediation or suggestions.
>>
>> � � �Taking into account all the circumstances prevailing at the moment they
>> considered it necessary to point out in their reply that, if the danger of
>> catastrophe is to be avoided at all, quick and immediate action is
>> indispensable.
>>
>> � � �The German Government have therefore declared themselves willing to
>> receive a delegate appointed by the Polish government by the evening of
>> August 30, 1939, provided that this delegate should be invested with full
>> power not only to take part in discussions but to negotiate and to take a
>> final decision.
>>
>> � � �The German government have further expressed the hope that they would
>> be able to submit to the British government the gist of the proposed
>> agreement before the arrival of the Polish delegate in Berlin.
>>
>> � � �Instead of a declaration regarding the arrival of an authorized Polish
>> representative the German government, in reply to their readiness to
>> negotiate, received firstly the news of the Polish mobilization, and it was
>> only towards midnight on August 30, 1939, that they received the assurance
>> by Britain, couched in more general terms, that she would use her influence
>> to arrange for the opening of negotiations.
>>
>> � � �Owing to the non-arrival of the Polish delegate who was expected by the
>> Reich Government, the primary condition for informing the British
>> Government, who had themselves recommended direct negotiations between
>> Germany and Poland, of the standpoint taken by the Reich as to the basis for
>> such negotiations, no longer existed.
>>
>> � � �Nevertheless, Herr von Ribbentrop, the Reich Minister for Foreign
>> Affairs, acquainted the British Ambassador, when the latter handed over the
>> last British note, with the exact wording of the German proposals as
>> prepared for the expected arrival of the Polish plenipotentiary.
>>
>> � � �Under these circumstances the German Government considered that they
>> had every right to expect that, at least subsequently to this, the
>> nomination of a Polish delegate would immediately take place. It was clearly
>> too much to expect of the German Government that they should continue not
>> only to reiterate their willingness to enter upon such negotiations, but
>> even to sit and wait and allow themselves to be put off by the Polish side
>> with feeble subterfuges and empty declarations.
>>
>> � � �In the meantime a demarche by the Polish Ambassador has again shown
>> that not even he is authorized to enter upon any discussion whatsoever, much
>> less to negotiate.
>>
>> � � �Thus the Fuhrer and the German Government have now waited for two days
>> in vain for the arrival of an authorized Polish delegate.
>>
>> � � �Under these circumstances the German Government cannot but regard their
>> proposals as having been once more virtually rejected, although they are of
>> the opinion that in the form in which they were also communicated to the
>> British Government, they were formulated in a spirit of more than goodwill
>> and fairness ann could have been accepted.
>>
>> � � �The Government of the Reich consider it appropriate to inform the
>> public of the proposed basis for negotiation as communicated to the British
>> Ambassador by Herr von Ribbentrop, the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs.
>> ______________________________________________
>> Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish Corridor Problem as
>> well as of the question concerning the German and Polish Minorities.
>>
>> � � �The situation between the German Reich and Poland is at the present
>> time such that any further incident may lead to an outbreak of hostilities
>> between the military forces of the two countries, which have already taken
>> up their position on the respective side of the frontier.
>>
>> � � �Any peaceful solution of the problem must be of such a nature that the
>> events which originally brought about this state of affairs cannot be
>> repeated on the next occasion thus causing a state of tension not only in
>> Eastern Europe but also elsewhere.
>>
>> The causes of this development are to be found in:
>>
>> � (1) the intolerable demarcation of the frontiers as dictated in the Treaty
>> of Versailles.
>>
>> � (2.) the intolerable treatment of the minority in the territories cut off
>> from the Reich.
>>
>> � � �In putting forward these proposals, the Reich government are attempting
>> to find a final solution putting an end to the intolerable situation arising
>> from the present demarcation of frontiers, securing to both parties their
>> vital lines of communication, eliminating as far as possible the problem of
>> the minorities and, in so far as this should prove impossible, rendering the
>> fate of the minorities bearable by effectively guaranteeing their rights.
>>
>> � � �The Reich Government feel convinced that it is indispensable that
>> economic and personal damage inflicted since 1918 should be investigated,
>> and full compensation made therefore. Of course, the Reich Government regard
>> this obligation as binding upon both parties.
>>
>> � � �The above considerations give rise to the following concrete proposals:
>>
>> � � �(1) � By reason of its purely German character and the unanimous will
>> of its population, the Free City of Danzig shall be returned forthwith to
>> the German Reich.
>>
>> � � �(2) �The territory known as the Polish Corridor, that is to say, the
>> territory bounded by the Baltic Sea and a line running from Marienwerder to
>> Graudenz, Kulm, Bromberg, (including these towns), and then in a westerly
>> direction towards Schonlanke, shall itself decide whether it shall become
>> part of the German Reich or remain with Poland.
>>
>> � � �(3) �For that purpose, a plebiscite shall be held in this territory.
>> All Germans who were domiciled in this area on the first of January 1918 or
>> who were born there on or before that day, also all Poles, Cassubians, etc.
>> who were domiciled in this area on that day or who were born there on or
>> before the above-mentioned date, shall be entitled to vote. Germans who have
>> been expelled from this territory shall return for the purpose of
>> registering their votes.
>>
>> � � �In order to ensure an impartial plebiscite and to guarantee that the
>> necessary and extensive preparations for the plebiscite shall be carried out
>> correctly, an International Commission like the one formed in connection
>> with the Saar plebiscite, and consisting of members appointed by the four
>> Great Powers, Italy, the U.S.S.R., France and Great Britain, shall be formed
>> immediately, and placed in charge of this territory.
>>
>> � � �This commission shall exercise sovereign rights throughout the
>> territory. To that end, the territory shall be evacuated by the Polish
>> military forces, by the Polish police and by the Polish authorities within
>> the shortest possible time to be agreed upon.
>>
>> � � �(4) �The Polish port of Gdynia to the extent of the Polish settlement
>> is not included in this area but, as a matter of principle, is recognized as
>> Polish territory.
>> � � �The details of the boundaries of this Polish port shall be decided on
>> by Germany and Poland, and if necessary established by an International
>> Court of Arbitration.
>>
>> � � �(5) �In order to allow for ample time for the necessary and extensive
>> preparations for the carrying out of an impartial plebiscite this plebiscite
>> shall not take place before a period of twelve months has elapsed.
>>
>> � � �(6) �In order that during that period, Germany's lines of communication
>> with East Prussia and Poland's access to the sea may be unrestrictedly
>> ensured, certain roads and railway lines shall be determined in order to
>> facilitate unobstructed transit. In this connection only such taxes may be
>> levied as are necessary for the upkeep of the lines of communication and for
>> the carrying out of transport.
>>
>> � � �(7) �The allocation of this territory shall be decided on by the
>> absolute majority of the votes cast.
>>
>> � � �(8) �In order to secure, after the plebiscite (irrespective of the
>> result thereof), Germany's unrestricted communication with the province of
>> Danzig -- East Prussia, and Poland's access to the sea, Germany shall,
>> should the territory be returned to Poland as a result of the plebiscite, be
>> given an exterritorial traffic zone running, from say, Butow to Danzig or
>> Dirschau, for the purpose of building a Reich Motor Road (Reichsautobahn)
>> and also a four-track railway line.
>>
>> � � �The construction of the motor road and of the railway shall be carried
>> out in such a manner that Polish lines of communication are not affected
>> thereby, i.e. they are to be overbridged or underbridged. This zone shall be
>> one kilometer in width and shall be German territory.
>>
>> � � �Should the result of the plebiscite be in favor of Germany, Poland
>> shall have the same rights as Germany would have had, to build an
>> exterritorial road and railway connection in order to secure her free and
>> unrestricted access to her port of Gdynia.
>>
>> � � �(9) �In the event of the Polish Corridor being returned to the Reich,
>> the latter declares herself prepared to arrange with Poland for an exchange
>> of population to the extent to which this could be carried out according to
>> the conditions in the Corridor.
>>
>> � � (10) �Any special rights claimed by Poland within the port of Danzig
>> shall, on the basis of parity, be negotiated in exchange of equal rights for
>> Germany at the Port of Gdynia.
>>
>> � � (11) �In order to avoid any sense of menace or danger on either side,
>> Danzig and Gdynia henceforth shall have a purely commercial character, i.e.
>> neither of these places shall be provided with means of military defence or
>> fortifications.
>>
>> � � (12) �The Peninsula of Hela which according to the result of the
>> plebiscite would be allocated either to Poland or to Germany, shall also be
>> demilitarized in any case.
>>
>> � � (13) �The Reich Government having most serious complaints to make about
>> the treatment of the minority by the Poles, the Polish Government on the
>> other hand considering themselves entitled to raise complaints against
>> Germany, both parties agree to submit these complaints to an International
>> Commission of Investigation charged to investigate into all complaints and
>> economic and personal damage, as well as other acts of terrorism.
>>
>> � � �Germany and Poland bind themselves to indemnify the minorities on
>> either side for any economic damages and other wrongs inflicted upon them
>> since 1918; and or to revoke all expropriations or otherwise to completely
>> indemnify the respective person or persons for these and other encroachments
>> upon economic life.
>>
>> � � (14) �In order to free the Germans remaining in Poland, as well as the
>> Poles remaining in Germany, from the feeling of being deprived of the
>> benefits of International Law, and above all to afford them the certainty of
>> their not being made to take part in actions and in furnishing services of a
>> kind not compatible with their national convictions, Germany and Poland
>> mutually agree to safeguard the rights of their respective minorities by
>> most comprehensive and binding agreements for the purpose of warranting
>> these minorities the preservation, free development and cultivation of their
>> national customs, habits and traditions, to grant them in particular and for
>> that purpose the form of organization considered necessary by them. Both
>> parties undertake not to draft the members of the minority into military
>> service.
>>
>> � � (15) �In case of an agreement on the basis of these proposals being
>> reached, Germany and Poland declare themselves prepared immediately to order
>> and carry through the demobilization of their respective armed forces.
>>
>> � � (16) �Any additional measures required to hasten the carrying through of
>> the above agreement shall be mutually agreed upon between Germany and
>> Poland.
>> ___________________________________________________
>> 16. � Announcement made by the Polish Broadcasting Station at Warsaw on
>> August 31, 1939, at 11 p. m.
>> (Translation)
>>
>> � � �the publication today of the official German communique has clearly
>> revealed the aims and intentions of German policy. It proves the undisguised
>> aggressive intentions of Germany towards Poland. The conditions under which
>> the Third Empire is prepared to negotiate with Poland are:
>>
>> � � �Danzig must immediately return to the Reich.
>>
>> � � �Pomorze together with the cities of Bromberg and Graudenz are to be
>> subjected to a plebiscite, for which all Germans who left that territory for
>> any reason whatsoever since the year 1918 may return.
>>
>> � � �The Polish military forces and the police force shall be evacuated from
>> Pomorze.
>>
>> � � �The police force of England, France, Italy and the U.S.S.R. will be
>> placed in charge of the territory. The plebiscite is to take place after
>> twelve months have elapsed.
>>
>> � � �The territory of the Hela Peninsula will also be included in the
>> plebiscite, Gdynia as a Polish town is excluded. Irrespective of the result
>> of the plebiscite an exterritorial road one kilometer wide is to be
>> constructed.
>>
>> � � �The German News Agency announces that the time allowed for the
>> acceptance of these conditions expired yesterday. Germany has waited in vain
>> for a Polish delegate. The answer given was the military orders issued by
>> the Polish Government.
>>
>> � � �Words can now no longer veil the aggressive plans of the new Huns.
>> Germany is aiming at the domination of Europe and is cancelling the rights
>> of nations with as yet unprecedented cynicism. This impudent proposal shows
>> clearly how necessary were the military orders given by the Polish
>> Government.
>>
>> German White Book - Documents
>> Concerning the Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> Document 17 (of 26)
>>
>> 17. �Speech delivered by the Fuhrer before the Reichstag on September 1,
>> 1939. [Poland fired the first shots knowing that France and England would
>> jump to their defense.]
>> (Translation)
>>
>> Members of the German Reichstag:
>>
>> � � �For months we have been tormented by a problem once set us by the
>> dictated Treaty of Versailles and which has now assumed such a character as
>> to become utterly intolerable.
>>
>> Danzig was and is a German city!
>>
>> The Corridor was and is German!
>>
>> � � �All these districts owe their cultural development exclusively to the
>> German people, without whom absolute barbarism would prevail in these
>> eastern tracts of country.
>>
>> � � �Danzig was separated from us! The Corridor was annexed by Poland! The
>> German minorities living there were ill-treated in the most appalling
>> manner! More than a million persons with German blood in their veins were
>> compelled to leave their homes as early as 1919-1920.
>>
>> � � �Here, as always, I have attempted to change this intolerable condition
>> of things by means of peaceful proposals for a revision. It is a lie ...
>>
>> download full message


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:55 EDT 2008
Article: 1937069 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:05:43 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in
>news:U72dnW66l4FTrSDVnZ2dnUVZ_ozinZ2d@giganews.com: 
>
>> 
>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message 
>> news:188e4dce-11b3-4bdd-9ce5-12ee4a0c32de@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 2, 8:31 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:6eb4c145-0897-4142-914f-84723d6e0492@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 1, 11:16 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>>
>>> > By Mark Weber
>>>
>>> > Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>>> > and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>>> > Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>>> > December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>>> > violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>>> > war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>>> > declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>>> > vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>>> > intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>>> > provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>>> > against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>>> > well known.[1] 
>>>
>>> > Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>>> > for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>>> > Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>>> > outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>>> > his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>>> > Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>>
>>> > Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>>> > had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>>> > history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>>
>>> > This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>>> > Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>>> > in September 1939. 
>>>
>>> >http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>>> > These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>>> > on the Second World War. 
>>>
>>> And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>>> agreement he ever signed and invaded countries left and right, including
>>> countries that had already given up territory to placate the Germans?
>>> No, in fact  nothing could have caused a war in Europe without Hitler
>>> specifically seeking  complete domination of it.
>>>
>>> Well - No.
>>>
>>   Well, yes.
>> 
>>> WWII was totally avoidable.
>>>
>>> Read please, and weep.
>>>>
>>>  None of this disproves that Hitler did exactly what I said.  He lied
>>>and aggressed
>>>against all his neighbours including those he made treaties.  Agreeing
>>>to a treaty
>>>would only mean that Germany had more places to attack from like in
>>>Czechoslavakia.
>> 
>> 
>> But it does prove, silly person, that WWII was TOTALLY avoidable. It was
>> NOT Hitler who pushed the "GO" button.
>
>Hitler declared war on the US after we declared war on the Japanese. 
>Roosevelt and Churchill, whose primary focus had been on the Germans, found 
>the US at war with the Japanese but still not at war with Germany in the wake 
>of Pearl Harbor. Herr Hitler, ever the idiot, accomodated Roosevelt by 
>declaring war on the US a few days later.

The USA had committed hundreds of acts of war against Germany prior to
Pearl Harbor. They did their level best to provoke a reaction, but
failed. After Pearl Harbor one would have to be pretty naive to
believe that it was Hitler's declaration of war that drew the USA into
war with Germany. Hitler merely acknowledged a situation that had
existed since September of 1939. Roosevelt was behind the Anglo-French
actions in 1939, since neither one would so much as void their
bladders without vetting it through Washington first. They were
already vassal states then, and Germany was added to the collection of
American satrapies in 1945.

>
>WWII would have been avoidable if the Nazi bastard had been dead.

It wouldn't have made any difference who the government of Germany
was. They could have been pious saints, and the British would still
have attacked them because it was Germany and its people that were the
allied target, not the Nazis. Britain still had its delusions of world
power and they perceived Germany as being too powerful. It had to be
destroyed, and those plans had been developing long before Hitler came
to power.


>So long as 
>Hitler and his mad ambition lived and decent men opposed him, war was 
>inevitable.

You have recited your nonsense so often that you clearly have come to
believe your own propaganda.



From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:55 EDT 2008
Article: 1937071 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 05:42:27 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns Joe Bruno  wrote:
>
>
>>Hitler did not only invade Poland.
>
>But he did end up burned in a ditch, like common garbage.

LOL

You too may end up in a dumpster, but you won't care, and neither did
he.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1937072 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: <4k3rb4td5s1sh86vp7c2r56v199cqv2nei@4ax.com>
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 22:53:19 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:74d228a1-7da0-4741-ae28-fc1ff271b87e@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 2, 3:31 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:6eb4c145-0897-4142-914f-84723d6e0492@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 1, 11:16 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > By Mark Weber
>>
>> > Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>> > and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>> > Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>> > December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>> > violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>> > war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>> > declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>> > vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>> > intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>> > provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>> > against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>> > well known.[1]
>>
>> > Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>> > for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>> > Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>> > outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>> > his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>> > Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>
>> > Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>> > had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>> > history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>
>> > This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>> > Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>> > in September 1939.
>>
>> >http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>> > These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>> > on the Second World War.
>>
>> And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>> agreement he
>> ever signed and invaded countries left and right, including countries
>> that had already
>> given up territory to placate the Germans? No, in fact nothing could
>> have caused a
>> war in Europe without Hitler specifically seeking complete domination
>> of it.
>>
>> Well - No.
>>
>> WWII was totally avoidable.
>>
>> Read please, and weep.
>>
>> GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>> DOCUMENTS
>>
>> Concerning the Last Phase
>> of the
>> German-Polish Crisis
>>
>> GERMAN LIBRARY OF INFORMATION
>> NEW YORK
>>
>> The original German white Book, "Documents Concerning the Last Phase of 
>> the
>> German-Polish Crisis", is not available to students of international 
>> affairs
>> in the United States in adequate quantities, owing to illicit British
>> interferences with the mails.
>>
>> The German Library of Information, therefore, issues a reprint of the
>> original for the benefit of such students, with a prefatory note disposing
>> of certain widely-circulated allegations made in the British Blue Book.
>>
>> Further copies may be obtained from the German Library of Information, 17
>> battery Place, New York.
>> ______________________________________________
>> INDEX
>> Note on the German white Book
>> I. The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> II. Documents
>> 1. First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>> in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>> of Danzig, August 4, 1939. 12
>> 2. Second Note from the diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>> Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August 
>> 4,
>> 1939
>> 3. Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig to the
>> Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939
>> 4. Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>> to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939
>> 5. Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>> Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939
>> 6. Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, Aug. 22, 1939
>> 7. Fuhrer's Reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23, 1939
>> 8. Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on August 25,
>> 1939, at 1:30 p. m.
>> 9. Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August 26, 1939
>> 10. The Fuhrer's letter of reply to the French premier, August 27, 1939
>> 11. Memorandum from British Government handed to Reich Minister for 
>> Foreign
>> Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p.m
>> 12. The Fuhrer's reply to the British Government handed to the British
>> Ambassador august 29, 1939 at 6:45 p.m
>> 13. Telephone Message from the German charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>> German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939 at 5:30 p. m.
>> 14. Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister 
>> for
>> Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at midnight.
>> 15. Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9 p.m.
>> containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>> Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>> Polish Minorities.
>> 16. Announcement made by the Polish Broadcasting Station at Warsaw on
>> August 31, 1939, at 11 p.m.
>> 17. Speech delivered by the Fuhrer before the Reichstag on September 1,
>> 1939
>> 18. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the British
>> Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 9:30 p. m.
>> 19. Note handed to the Reich Minister for foreign Affairs by the French
>> Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 10 p. m.
>> 20. Communication handed to the German Foreign Office by the Italian
>> Ambassador on the morning of September 2, 1939.
>> 21. Information from the Havas news Agency on September 2, 1939
>> 22. Extract from a Declaration made by the British Secretary of State for
>> Foreign affairs in the House of Lords on the afternoon of September 2, 
>> 1939
>> 23. Note handed to the German Foreign Office by the British Ambassador on
>> September 3, 1939, at 9 a.m.
>> 24. Note from the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs handed to
>> the German Charge d'Affairs in London on September 3, 1939, at 11:a5 a.m.
>> 25. Memorandum from the German Government handed to the British Ambassador
>> by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, September 3, 1939, at 11:30 
>> a.m.
>> 26. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the French
>> Ambassador on September 3, 1939, at 12.20 p.m.
>> _______________________________________________________
>> Note on the German White Book
>>
>> The German White Book, presented herewith, is a collection of official
>> documents and speeches, not a collection of uncontrollable conversations. 
>> It
>> does not pretend to cover the entire field of German-Polish relations but,
>> as the title implies, concerns itself solely with the last phase of the
>> German-Polish crisis, from August 4th to September 3rd, 1939.
>>
>> the Polish-german controversy concerning the Corridor, Upper Silesia
>> and Danzig, began in 1919; it has never, since the signing of the 
>> Versailles
>> Treaty, ceased to agitate europe. For many years intelligent commentators
>> and statesmen of all nations, including Great Britain, agreed that the
>> separation of East Prussia from the Reich and, indeed, the whole Polish
>> settlement, was unjust and fraught with danger.
>>
>> Germany, again and again, made attempts to solve the differences
>> between the two countries in a friendly spirit. It was only when all
>> negotiations proved vain and Poland joined the encirclement front against
>> Germany, that chancellor Hitler cut the Gordian knot with the sword. It 
>> was
>> England that forced the sword into his hand.
>>
>> Great Britain asserts in her Blue Book and elsewhere that she was
>> compelled to "guaranty" Poland against "aggression" for reason of
>> international morality. Unfortunately the British Government subsequently
>> admitted (Under-Secretary of State Butler, House of Commons, October 19,
>> 1939) that the "guaranty" was aimed solely against Germany.
>>
>> It was not valid in case of conflicts with other powers. In other
>> words, the British "guaranty" was merely a link in the British 
>> encirclement
>> chain. The Polish crisis was deliberately manufactured by Great Britain 
>> with
>> the connivance of Poland: it was the fuse designed to set off the 
>> explosion!
>>
>> Great Britain naturally attempts to becloud this fact. Official British
>> statements on the outbreak of the war place great emphasis on the 
>> allegation
>> that England did not give a formal "guaranty" to Poland until March 31, 
>> 193,
>> whereas the German demand on Poland, which Poland rejected, was made on
>> march 21st. Britain contends that the British "guaranty" was merely the
>> consequence of the German demand of March 21st.
>>
>> Britain denies that her "guaranty" stiffened Polish resistance. She
>> insists that Germany took advantage of a moment of highly strained
>> international tension by springing upon Poland her demand for an
>> extra-territorial road through the Corridor between the Reich and East
>> Prussia.
>>
>> The British ignore a vital fact in this connection. The existence of
>> the "guaranty", not its formal announcement, was the decisive factor. The
>> future may reveal when the British promise was first dangled before 
>> Poland.
>> In any event, Poland was assured of British aid before March 21st.
>>
>> Chamberlain's speech of march 17, 1939, and the statement by Lord
>> Halifax of March 20th, (both reprinted in the British Blue Book) leave no
>> doubt on that question. The British "guaranty" was in the nature of a 
>> blank
>> check. Poland did not know when she marched to her doom, that the check
>> would not be honored.
>>
>> The allegations that the Poles were surprised or overwhelmed by the
>> German proposals, does not hold water. Poland was fully informed of the
>> German demands. When as Herr von Ribbentrop points out in his Danzig 
>> speech
>> (October 24, 1939) chancellor Hitler in 1934 concluded a Friendship and
>> Non-Aggression Pact with Marshal Pilsudski, it was clearly understood that
>> the problem of Danzig and the Corridor must be solved sooner or later.
>> Chancellor Hitler hoped that it would be solved within the framework of 
>> that
>> instrument.
>> ...
>>
>> read more �- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>
>>Hitler did not only invade Poland.
>
>And what the fuck does that stupid statement have to do with the fact that 
>WWII was totally avoidable, fuckwit?
>
It doesn't have any connection. Clearly "Schadenfreude" is a made-up
surname, and this guy is probably not German but merely one of the
McVey-McFee consortium of bull-shitters.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1937073 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:06:49 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in 
>news:CNCdnSbyC9LKqiDVnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> 
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>> news:74d228a1-7da0-4741-ae28-fc1ff271b87e@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 2, 3:31 am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:6eb4c145-0897-4142-914f-84723d6e0492@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 1, 11:16 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > By Mark Weber
>>>
>>> > Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>>> > and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>>> > Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>>> > December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>>> > violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>>> > war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>>> > declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>>> > vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>>> > intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>>> > provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>>> > against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>>> > well known.[1] 
>>>
>>> > Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>>> > for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>>> > Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>>> > outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>>> > his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>>> > Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>>
>>> > Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>>> > had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>>> > history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>>
>>> > This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>>> > Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>>> > in September 1939. 
>>>
>>> >http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>>> > These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>>> > on the Second World War. 
>>>
>>> And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>>> agreement he
>>> ever signed and invaded countries left and right, including countries
>>> that had already
>>> given up territory to placate the Germans? No, in fact nothing could
>>> have caused a
>>> war in Europe without Hitler specifically seeking complete domination
>>> of it.
>>>
>>> Well - No.
>>>
>>> WWII was totally avoidable.
>>>
>>> Read please, and weep.
>>>
>>> GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>>> DOCUMENTS
>>>
>>> Concerning the Last Phase
>>> of the
>>> German-Polish Crisis
>>>
>>> GERMAN LIBRARY OF INFORMATION
>>> NEW YORK
>>>
>>> The original German white Book, "Documents Concerning the Last Phase of 
>>> the German-Polish Crisis", is not available to students of international 
>>> affairs in the United States in adequate quantities, owing to illicit
>>> British interferences with the mails.
>>>
>>> The German Library of Information, therefore, issues a reprint of the
>>> original for the benefit of such students, with a prefatory note disposing
>>> of certain widely-circulated allegations made in the British Blue Book.
>>>
>>> Further copies may be obtained from the German Library of Information, 17
>>> battery Place, New York.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> INDEX
>>> Note on the German white Book
>>> I. The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>>> II. Documents
>>> 1. First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>>> in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>>> of Danzig, August 4, 1939. 12
>>> 2. Second Note from the diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>>> Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August 
>>> 4, 1939 3. Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig
>>> to the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939
>>> 4. Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>>> to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939
>>> 5. Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>>> Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939
>>> 6. Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, Aug. 22, 1939
>>> 7. Fuhrer's Reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23, 1939
>>> 8. Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on August 25,
>>> 1939, at 1:30 p. m. 9. Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August
>>> 26, 1939 10. The Fuhrer's letter of reply to the French premier, August
>>> 27, 1939 11. Memorandum from British Government handed to Reich Minister
>>> for Foreign
>>> Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p.m
>>> 12. The Fuhrer's reply to the British Government handed to the British
>>> Ambassador august 29, 1939 at 6:45 p.m
>>> 13. Telephone Message from the German charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>>> German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939 at 5:30 p. m.
>>> 14. Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister 
>>> for Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at
>>> midnight. 15. Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9
>>> p.m. containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>>> Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>>> Polish Minorities.
>>> 16. Announcement made by the Polish Broadcasting Station at Warsaw on
>>> August 31, 1939, at 11 p.m.
>>> 17. Speech delivered by the Fuhrer before the Reichstag on September 1,
>>> 1939 18. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the
>>> British Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 9:30 p. m.
>>> 19. Note handed to the Reich Minister for foreign Affairs by the French
>>> Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 10 p. m.
>>> 20. Communication handed to the German Foreign Office by the Italian
>>> Ambassador on the morning of September 2, 1939.
>>> 21. Information from the Havas news Agency on September 2, 1939
>>> 22. Extract from a Declaration made by the British Secretary of State for
>>> Foreign affairs in the House of Lords on the afternoon of September 2, 
>>> 1939 23. Note handed to the German Foreign Office by the British
>>> Ambassador on September 3, 1939, at 9 a.m.
>>> 24. Note from the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs handed to
>>> the German Charge d'Affairs in London on September 3, 1939, at 11:a5 a.m.
>>> 25. Memorandum from the German Government handed to the British Ambassador
>>> by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, September 3, 1939, at 11:30 
>>> a.m. 26. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the
>>> French Ambassador on September 3, 1939, at 12.20 p.m.
>>> _______________________________________________________
>>> Note on the German White Book
>>>
>>> The German White Book, presented herewith, is a collection of official
>>> documents and speeches, not a collection of uncontrollable conversations. 
>>> It
>>> does not pretend to cover the entire field of German-Polish relations but,
>>> as the title implies, concerns itself solely with the last phase of the
>>> German-Polish crisis, from August 4th to September 3rd, 1939.
>>>
>>> the Polish-german controversy concerning the Corridor, Upper Silesia
>>> and Danzig, began in 1919; it has never, since the signing of the 
>>> Versailles
>>> Treaty, ceased to agitate europe. For many years intelligent commentators
>>> and statesmen of all nations, including Great Britain, agreed that the
>>> separation of East Prussia from the Reich and, indeed, the whole Polish
>>> settlement, was unjust and fraught with danger.
>>>
>>> Germany, again and again, made attempts to solve the differences
>>> between the two countries in a friendly spirit. It was only when all
>>> negotiations proved vain and Poland joined the encirclement front against
>>> Germany, that chancellor Hitler cut the Gordian knot with the sword. It 
>>> was England that forced the sword into his hand.
>>>
>>> Great Britain asserts in her Blue Book and elsewhere that she was
>>> compelled to "guaranty" Poland against "aggression" for reason of
>>> international morality. Unfortunately the British Government subsequently
>>> admitted (Under-Secretary of State Butler, House of Commons, October 19,
>>> 1939) that the "guaranty" was aimed solely against Germany.
>>>
>>> It was not valid in case of conflicts with other powers. In other
>>> words, the British "guaranty" was merely a link in the British 
>>> encirclement chain. The Polish crisis was deliberately manufactured by
>>> Great Britain  with the connivance of Poland: it was the fuse designed to
>>> set off the  explosion! 
>>>
>>> Great Britain naturally attempts to becloud this fact. Official British
>>> statements on the outbreak of the war place great emphasis on the 
>>> allegation that England did not give a formal "guaranty" to Poland until
>>> March 31,  193, whereas the German demand on Poland, which Poland
>>> rejected, was made on march 21st. Britain contends that the British
>>> "guaranty" was merely the consequence of the German demand of March 21st.
>>>
>>> Britain denies that her "guaranty" stiffened Polish resistance. She
>>> insists that Germany took advantage of a moment of highly strained
>>> international tension by springing upon Poland her demand for an
>>> extra-territorial road through the Corridor between the Reich and East
>>> Prussia.
>>>
>>> The British ignore a vital fact in this connection. The existence of
>>> the "guaranty", not its formal announcement, was the decisive factor. The
>>> future may reveal when the British promise was first dangled before 
>>> Poland.
>>> In any event, Poland was assured of British aid before March 21st.
>>>
>>> Chamberlain's speech of march 17, 1939, and the statement by Lord
>>> Halifax of March 20th, (both reprinted in the British Blue Book) leave no
>>> doubt on that question. The British "guaranty" was in the nature of a 
>>> blank check. Poland did not know when she marched to her doom, that the
>>> check would not be honored.
>>>
>>> The allegations that the Poles were surprised or overwhelmed by the
>>> German proposals, does not hold water. Poland was fully informed of the
>>> German demands. When as Herr von Ribbentrop points out in his Danzig 
>>> speech (October 24, 1939) chancellor Hitler in 1934 concluded a Friendship
>>> and Non-Aggression Pact with Marshal Pilsudski, it was clearly understood
>>> that the problem of Danzig and the Corridor must be solved sooner or
>>> later. Chancellor Hitler hoped that it would be solved within the
>>> framework of  that instrument. ...
>>>
>>> read more �- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> 
>> 
>>>Hitler did not only invade Poland.
>> 
>> And what the fuck does that stupid statement have to do with the fact that 
>> WWII was totally avoidable, fuckwit?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>Becuase it wasn't avoidable as long as Hitler lived.

The war had little to do with Hitler or with his National Socialists.
Anybody who revived Germany's post WW1 fortunes would have had to
calculate with British attempts to take it down. Hitler's problem was
that he was an Anglophile who naively believed that the Brits were
decent people. They didn't enslave two thirds of the world's people by
being nice guys. The National Socialists were naive church-choir boys
compared to Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin.

Saddam didn't have to do anything either to be attacked by Bush. There
is nothing that Saddam could have done to sidestep what happened to
Iraq. Saddam was merely a decoy. Bush and his minions were after
something else, something that belonged to the people of Iraq and not
to Saddam. The Gulf War was not about Saddam and WW2 was not about
Hitler.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1937074 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 06:27:11 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>wrote:
>
>
>>> http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>
>LOL
>
>The Institute For Neo-Nazi Historical Revision?
>
>Why don't you cite from "Mein Kampf" like your little paint-chuffing
>buddy Topaz?

Klaus Dorftrottel prattles on.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1937077 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:23:00 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message 
>news:92unb4t0hk2rcu8a43l3j8a9gk1o48k0cq@4ax.com...
>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>news:sksnb4p0tb3jjnmlapcflq6ud8s3u13dtu@4ax.com...
>>>> In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Klaus Schadenfreude"  wrote in message
>>>>>news:1nrnb49p4ju5k1u1ffu9of20vt8tlrfjbq@4ax.com...
>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns Topaz  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Here is part of Hitler's speech at Rheinmetall-Borsig Works, Berlin,
>>>>>>>on December 10, 1940:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rantings of a dead lunatic, burned in a ditch.
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm sorry to hear that. Are you recovering?
>>>>
>>>> Yes. When I heard about Adolph being burned in a ditch I laughed for
>>>> about a half an hour. I'm fine now. Thanks for asking.
>>>>
>>>>>Your name is a rather odd choice.
>>>>
>>>> So's your face.
>>>>
>>>>>You don't cause discomfort to anyone apart
>>>>>from yourself.
>>>>
>>>> [chuckle] Yes, I'm afraid poor Topaz has much discomfort trying to
>>>> defend his hero, the Liar Goebbels.
>>>
>>>It is you who is feeling discomfort, silly person.
>>
>> [chuckle] You're just another frightened glue-sniffer- I don't think
>> there's anything for me to worry about.
>
>It's not really about me, silly person. It's about you and your apparent 
>delusional state of mind.
>
>A person who adopts the pseudonym of "Schadenfreude" would obviously think 
>he/she possesses the ability associated with the word. You don't.
>
I really ought to do a telephone directory search in Germany to see if
there actually are some real people out of the 82 million there stuck
with this silly surname. I rather doubt it.

I suspect that "Scheisserle" would be a more common name than
"Schadenfreude".  LOL


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1937080 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 04:41:18 -0700, Klaus Schadenfreude
 wrote:

>In talk.politics.guns "B.H. Cramer" 
>wrote:
>
>>> Yeah, it's about you, and the delusions of grandeur brought on by your
>>> repeated glue huffing.
>>
>>No. It's about you, 
>
>That's why you nitwits lost the war.

You don't think that being outnumbered twenty to one had anything to
do with it? Just think of how stupid the allies must have been to take
so long and suffer such huge casualty lists despite the massive
numerical advantages the allies possessed.

>You can't even understand this
>simple concept.

You are clearly the simpleton of this piece.

>
>Now breathe deeply into your sock- you'll feel better in a moment.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1937082 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:25:29 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:15:22 -0400
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:59:59 -0400, "127.0.0.1" 
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > >On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> > >Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> > >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> > >> > > > Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>> > >> > > > *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>> > >> > > > willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>> > >> > > didn't lie about what they did.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>> > >> 
>> > >> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a
>> > >> half, was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in
>> > >> a 200 page memoir he wrote.
>> > >
>> > >Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>> > 
>> > His confession was apparently in English, even though the man didn't
>> > know any. The document was simply prepared for him and he was forced
>> > to sign it or risk harm coming to his wife and children.
>> > 
>> 
>> Exactly. 
>
>Exactly WRONG. Hoess knew English.

If he knew any English, he kept the fact well hidden. There is simply
no evidence that he knew any English, and even if he did, he wouldn't
likely write something like a confession in a foreign language.

We are obviously talking about an allied fabrication that he was
required to sign.

> Just because an illiterate like you 
>doesn't know more than one language doesn't mean that others aren't 
>bilingual.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1937083 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 18:30:04 -0400, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:25:29 -0500
>Sara Salzman  wrote:
>
>> In article ,
>>  "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> 
>> > On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:15:22 -0400
>> > Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> > 
>> > > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:59:59 -0400, "127.0.0.1" 
>> > > wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > >On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > >Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> > > >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> > > >> > > > Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>> > > >> > > > *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>> > > >> > > > willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the
>> > > >> > > > truth?
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of
>> > > >> > > Nazis didn't lie about what they did.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>> > > >> 
>> > > >> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and
>> > > >> a half, was not subject to torture, most of which is to be
>> > > >> found in a 200 page memoir he wrote.
>> > > >
>> > > >Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>> > > 
>> > > His confession was apparently in English, even though the man
>> > > didn't know any. The document was simply prepared for him and he
>> > > was forced to sign it or risk harm coming to his wife and
>> > > children.
>> > > 
>> > 
>> > Exactly. 
>> 
>> Exactly WRONG. Hoess knew English. Just because an illiterate like
>> you doesn't know more than one language doesn't mean that others
>> aren't bilingual.
>
>For the sake of argument lets assume that he did know English. Why
>would he not write his memoirs in his native tongue? 

People who write books, in this case a memoir, tend to do it in the
language they know best, which in the case of H�ss is very unlikely to
have been English.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1937084 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
References: <8ffca420-23ba-4a32-9b16-e076f7f78159@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>  <58f902bf-350d-4b4b-b8cb-b9993dbee037@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>  <275ob4hr4s0e22rljjs3s44l0me5qh862m@4ax.com>    
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 05:59:33 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article ,
> "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>
>> "Sara Salzman"  wrote in message 
>> news:catamont-CB8477.17252801092008@news-40.giganews.com...
>> > In article ,
>> > "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:15:22 -0400
>> >> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:59:59 -0400, "127.0.0.1" 
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > >On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> >> > >Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> >> > >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> >> > >> > > > Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>> >> > >> > > > *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>> >> > >> > > > willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > > People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>> >> > >> > > didn't lie about what they did.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> > The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a
>> >> > >> half, was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in
>> >> > >> a 200 page memoir he wrote.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>> >> >
>> >> > His confession was apparently in English, even though the man didn't
>> >> > know any. The document was simply prepared for him and he was forced
>> >> > to sign it or risk harm coming to his wife and children.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Exactly.
>> >
>> > Exactly WRONG. Hoess knew English.
>> 
>> Because you say so, sara dear?
>> I don't suppose you might be able to provide anything like independant proof 
>> to support your assertion?
>
>Absolutely. Hoess said so himself.

Where did he say so? There simply is no evidence that he spoke or
wrote English, especially given that English classes in Germany are a
relatively recent phenomenon. In pre-WW2 Germany you might be looking
at one person in tens of thousands who would be fluent in English.
Unless Herr H�ss was a university graduate in modern languages he
would be damn unlikely to be able to write books in English.

>> 
>> >Just because an illiterate like you
>> > doesn't know more than one language doesn't mean that others aren't
>> > bilingual.
>> 
>> The salzman thing never misses an opportunity to spray hatred, bile and 
>> filth.
>
>Nothing hateful or filthy in the above, just Mr. Cramer's need to hurl 
>abuse.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1937085 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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References:  <5b9d63e2-1ed1-4fda-94b6-51179c7922fe@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>  <8ffca420-23ba-4a32-9b16-e076f7f78159@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>  <58f902bf-350d-4b4b-b8cb-b9993dbee037@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>  <275ob4hr4s0e22rljjs3s44l0me5qh862m@4ax.com> 
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:24:45 -0500, Sara Salzman
 wrote:

>In article <275ob4hr4s0e22rljjs3s44l0me5qh862m@4ax.com>,
> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:59:59 -0400, "127.0.0.1" 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> >Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> >> >
>> >> > Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> >> > > > Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>> >> > > > *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>> >> > > > willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>> >> >
>> >> > > People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>> >> > > didn't lie about what they did.
>> >> >
>> >> > The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>> >> 
>> >> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a half,
>> >> was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in a 200 page
>> >> memoir he wrote.
>> >
>> >Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>> 
>> His confession was apparently in English, even though the man didn't
>> know any. The document was simply prepared for him and he was forced
>> to sign it or risk harm coming to his wife and children.
>
>Why must you lie so blatantly? Hoess spoke English.

I don't believe you. Show me some proof.



From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1937086 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:49:00 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 8/31/2008 8:59 PM, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>> Philip Mathews  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>> Philip Mathews  wrote:
>>>>>> Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>>>>>> *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>>>>>> willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>>>>> People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>>>>> didn't lie about what they did.
>>>> The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>>> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a half,
>>> was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in a 200 page
>>> memoir he wrote.
>> 
>> Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>
>Actually, he did.

That really isn't too likely. Very few people in Germany spoke English
until after WW2.



From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:25:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1937087 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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References: 	<5b9d63e2-1ed1-4fda-94b6-51179c7922fe@z72g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>		<8ffca420-23ba-4a32-9b16-e076f7f78159@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>		<58f902bf-350d-4b4b-b8cb-b9993dbee037@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>   <49SdnTsp9LrXkiDVnZ2dnUVZ_ojinZ2d@giganews.com>
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:02:27 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>news:Wj_uk.69824$4p1.69724@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>> On 8/31/2008 8:59 PM, 127.0.0.1 wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>>> Philip Mathews  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>>
>>>>> Philip Mathews  wrote:
>>>>>>> Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>>>>>>> *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>>>>>>> willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>>>>>> People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>>>>>> didn't lie about what they did.
>>>>> The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>>>> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a half,
>>>> was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in a 200 page
>>>> memoir he wrote.
>>>
>>> Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>>
>> Actually, he did.
>
>Because you say so?

It is the usual Gordie "proof by assertion". I wish that Gordie would
show us some proof. The name of the university and course from which
H�ss graduated, assuming he even got that far in formal education,
would be a start.

Very, very few people in Germany at that time would have known any
English. English didn't become a common school subject until the
postwar period when Germany was degraded into an American satrapy.


>
>
>
>>
>> -- 
>> Gord McFee
>> I'll write no line before its time
>>
>> Visit the Holocaust History Project
>> http://www.holocaust-history.org 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1937089 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: v. Ebersdorf runs away again, tail between legs
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 22:42:25 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>Why should he reply to you. You are nothing but a dishonest parasite and a 
>fake.

That has certainly been my observation.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:IaadndU_UNXbxCHVnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article <5i2ob4loiakpke9fnr9n3kf3fj9r0daej7@4ax.com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>All he slings is the standard industry dreck that we have all seen a
>>>thousand times previously. Be assured that the bullshit does not get
>>>transformed into truth by frequent repetition.
>>
>> On August 22, 2008, you made this statement: "Since the Jews did not
>> regard Germans has humans, then Germans have no right of self-defence
>> against Jews or their lackeys." Please provide verifiable citations
>> in which Jews expressed such beliefs.
>>
>> Please document this claim. Provide specific, verifiable citations to
>> support your assertion.
>>
>> You also claimed, on the same day, that Sara Salzman and I were,
>> "... two people with extremely partisan notions of what constitutes
>> an atrocity. It is pretty clear that you only regard deaths as tragic
>> if the victims are Jewish."
>>
>> Please provide verifiable citations where either I or Ms. Salzman have
>> expressed such a view, Leading Revisionist Scholar v. Ebersdorf.
>>
>> On August 14, 2008, you claimed, "All I've heard here from you or
>> from hate-mongers like McVay is warmed over WW1 propaganda.
>> It was all disproven the first time, and it isn't too fucking
>> likely to be true the second time." Document these "warmed
>> over" pieces of propaganda, and document their falsity.
>>
>> You have claimed that "All the N�rnberg documents presented by the
>> allies are copies of a copy and none of the originals have ever been
>> found," In fact, the originals are held in the Yale Law Library.
>>
>> You have claimed that the Jewish death toll must have been under 500,000,
>> but have yet to provide supporting data, or show that scholars' estimates
>> of millions of casualties are deliberate fabrications.
>>
>> You have failed to document your assertion that some "German puppet
>> regime" accepted German responsibility for the Katyn massacre, which
>> is patent nonsense.
>>
>> You have not proven your assertion that American bases in Germany may
>> contain graves of the "victims" of the "Eisenhower death camps," and
>> you have yet to document your claim that "The victims were generally
>> taken away by dumptruck each morning" and "buried in mass graves in and
>> around the city."
>>
>> Please support your claim that, "The Poles have always been dramatically
>> more anti-Semitic than Germans ever were" by providing academic source
>> studies.
>>
>> Which "Dachau story" was it that "collapsed in 1946," as you
>> claimed on July 22, 2008?
>>
>> For instance, can you tell us, using documentary citations, who
>> made the "suggestions" you referenced on July 19th when you wrote,
>> "Eye witness testimony is so unreliable that there have been
>> suggestions that it should not be used in a trial in the absence
>> of physical evidence such as DNA, fingerprints, etc."
>>
>> We're still waiting for your documentation about those
>> documents introduced into evidence at Nurnberg which you claim were
>> available in English long before they were available in German.
>>
>> We're also still waiting for your documentary evidence that most of
>> the Nurnberg evidenciary documents were forgeries.
>>
>> You have yet to prove that "The allies were the authors of Terror
>> Bombing," as you claimed on July 18, 2008.
>>
>> -- 
>>                "The antisemite has chosen hate because hate is a faith;
>>            at the outset he has chosen to devaluate words and reasons."
>>                                      (Sarte. Antisemite and Jew, p. 19)
>>                               The Nizkor Project: http://www.nizkor.org
>> 
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1937090 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: v. Ebersdorf runs away again, tail between legs
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 15:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Sep 1, 5:06�pm, kmc...@shell.vex.net (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>> In article <5i2ob4loiakpke9fnr9n3kf3fj9r0da...@4ax.com>,
>> Johannes von Ebersdorf � wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >All he slings is the standard industry dreck that we have all seen a
>> >thousand times previously. Be assured that the bullshit does not get
>> >transformed into truth by frequent repetition.
>>
>> On August 22, 2008, you made this statement: "Since the Jews did not
>> regard Germans has humans, then Germans have no right of self-defence
>> against Jews or their lackeys." Please provide verifiable citations
>> in which Jews expressed such beliefs.
>>
>> Please document this claim. Provide specific, verifiable citations to
>> support your assertion.
>>
>
>etc.
>
>McVay, you won't accept a shred of evidence unless it has been
>authorized by ZIC.

McVay would dispute that the earth is in orbit around the sun if he
figured that he could disrupt this newsgroup with that nonsense.

I have long ago figured out that he is just a dishonest shill for the
holocaust� industry.

>(Zionists in Charge).


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1937095 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What is 'Holocaust Denial'?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 1 Sep 2008 22:19:42 -0400, "V"  wrote:

>Please don`t post your fucking jewish links ,they are all BULLSHIT.
>
>"RJ11"  wrote in message news:g9hs2q$to8$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> In article ,
>> 127.0.0.1  wrote:
>>
>>   (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
>>
>>   Deal with the facts,  please.
>>
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//ohrdruf/images/ohrdruf-02.jpg
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//nordhausen/images/nordhausen-01.jpg
>> http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/dachau-corpses.GIF
>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//buchenwald/images/buchenwald01.jpg
>>
>>
>>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1673471.stm
>>
>>   Mass graves found at Nazi camp
>> Researchers have discovered seven mass graves at the Sobibor Nazi
>> death camp in north-eastern Poland.
>>
>>   The research team,  which began its government-sponsored investigation
>> in the summer,  said the graves -- the largest of which is about half
>> the size of a football pitch -- contain charred remains.
>>
>>   
>>
>> RJ. 
>

LOL

RJ11, what you snipped was factual and it is your replacement for the
original text that is drivel.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1937098 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:13:58 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government 
>Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes 
>Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a 
>YouTube video urinating on the site.

They were merely making a political commentary. Isn't that permitted
in a democracy?

>
>The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>
>"Greek obligations to the European Union... require your government to 
>promptly arrest the perpetrators of this obscenity, apologize for this 
>offense to the Jewish people, reinforce security measures to defend 
>community institutions and strenuously embark on a Holocaust educational 
>campaign for Greek youth," the Center's Director for International 
>Relations, Dr. Shimon Samuels, wrote in a letter to the Greek Justice 
>Minister Sotirios Hatzigakis.
>
>"An inadequate response to this outrage will be construed as an endorsement 
>for anti-Semitism," the letter concluded 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1937099 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:00:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>news:6i47g3FosvnpU1@mid.individual.net...
>> The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government 
>> Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes 
>> Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a 
>> YouTube video urinating on the site.
>>
>> The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>
>I would suggest the reason these Greeks pissed on the memorial is entirely 
>due to their having received such education.

Even in Germany, young people are increasingly just walking away from
the holocaust propagandists and ditching the classes where this
indoctrination is laid on.

The holocaust� memorial in Berlin was also been vandalized by
spray-bomb artists. That had to be expected when the authorities
decided to deface the downtown with such crap. They really ought to
remove the decaying Soviet "tank memorials" and remove statues of
Soviet soldiers affectionately known by the locals as the "unknown
rapist" and the "unknown looter".

>
>The lies and b'ulshit contained in Holocaust(tm) 'education' is enough to 
>make any honest person piss themselves.
>
>
>
>>
>> "Greek obligations to the European Union... require your government to 
>> promptly arrest the perpetrators of this obscenity, apologize for this 
>> offense to the Jewish people, reinforce security measures to defend 
>> community institutions and strenuously embark on a Holocaust educational 
>> campaign for Greek youth," the Center's Director for International 
>> Relations, Dr. Shimon Samuels, wrote in a letter to the Greek Justice 
>> Minister Sotirios Hatzigakis.
>>
>> "An inadequate response to this outrage will be construed as an 
>> endorsement for anti-Semitism," the letter concluded 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1937101 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 09:31:29 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 2:00�am, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:6i47g3FosvnpU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government
>> > Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes
>> > Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a
>> > YouTube video urinating on the site.
>>
>> > The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>>
>> I would suggest the reason these Greeks pissed on the memorial is entirely
>> due to their having received such education.
>>
>> The lies and b'ulshit contained in Holocaust(tm) 'education' is enough to
>> make any honest person piss themselves.
>>
>   And what are the lies and bullshit contained in Holocaust
>education?

It would be easier to try to locate the tiny spots of truth in this
giant bucket of swill known as "holocaust� education". It isn't
education in any case, but indoctrination. You have to accept it
without question exactly as it is served up. That isn't what education
is all about.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:02 EDT 2008
Article: 1937102 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Deaf Germans apologize to deaf Jews for Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 14:30:07 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>      After 70 years: German deaf association apologizes
>
>      Decades after World War II, Germany's Union of the Deaf expresses 
>'deep sorrow for suffering caused to so many deaf Jews'

Oh barf!

>
>      Tal Rabinovsky Published: 09.02.08, 12:34 / Israel Jewish Scene
>
>      Almost 70 years have passed since the onset of World War II, yet only 
>last week saw a reconcilement effort in Cologne, Germany, bringing together 
>representatives of the Israeli and German associations for the deaf.
>
>      "We would like to officially express our deep sorrow for the suffering 
>caused to so many deaf Jews," the German representatives wrote in a letter.
>
>      "There was always a connection between the associations," Doron Levy, 
>a sign-language teacher and chairman of the Association of the Deaf in 
>Israel, wrote to Ynet.
>
>      "The German association of the deaf is also joining in the 'house 
>cleaning'... taking place within German organizations and companies. Jews 
>living in Germany pressured the association into reconciling but it just 
>recently agreed to do so," said Levy.
>
>      'We ask you for forgiveness'
>
>      The letter written by the German association also noted that the Reich 
>Union of the Deaf of Germany (REGEDE) did not fulfill its original purpose 
>of defending and advancing all its deaf members. "We are aware of the union's 
>failures and therefore ask you for forgiveness," the union wrote.
>
>      The connection was made via the German union's chairman at an 
>international conference in Spain in July 2007, and its fruits have now been 
>reaped.
>
>      Levy, who personally received the reconciliation letter, wrote 
>excitedly about the event, saying that "the German welfare minister came and 
>1,200 people were in the huge hall. Most of them were deaf, of course.
>
>      "It was emotional, spine-chilling and positive. The feeling is very 
>positive amongst the Germans and the cultural festival included important 
>lectures dealing with the repercussions of the Nazi regime. As we know, the 
>Nazis sterilized the German deaf and approximately 60,000 handicapped people 
>were murdered between the years 1933 and 1945," said Levy.
>
>      The Israeli association was founded in 1944 towards the end of the 
>World War II by refugees who managed to escape Nazi Germany.
>
>      One of the founders is 92-year-old Moshe Bamberger, who has yet to be 
>informed about the reconciliation.
>
>      "I still haven't shared this with him. I am sure that he and the rest 
>of the deaf refugees and Holocaust survivors view this as a closing of a 
>circle," said the association head.
>      __________________
>      "No Signature"
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:02 EDT 2008
Article: 1937220 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:09:52 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:jp0rb49j3ipu7ov3u4oivlsnqmf3rlcsig@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:33:48 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/1/2008 11:08 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:37:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/29/2008 10:18 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:07:40 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:42 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:06:56 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Interesting McFee can one see the aging of your book to analyze its
>>>>>>>>>  age.
>>>>>>>> It seems that McFee's understanding of a German text is pretty
>>>>>>>> primitive.
>>>>>>> It's a lot better than yours.
>>>>>> LOL, Gord, your bluster and bullshit won't get you out of this one.
>>>>> I have no need of either.  I merely posted a quote that you said didn't
>>>>> exist.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say that it didn't exist, merely that it probably didn't say
>>>> what you claimed it said. I was correct. That is why the passage
>>>> didn't jump out at me when I read the book. Your interpretations are
>>>> putting words into the author's mouth that he didn't say and that he
>>>> probably didn't intend.
>>>
>>>What interpretation?  I merely quoted it.
>>
>> No Gordie, you quoted an irrelevant passage as "proof" of the intent
>> to institute mass gassings of Jews. The passage doesn't say or even
>> indirectly imply that. You are the same as some stupid fundie with
>> their ridiculous interpretations of scripture.
>
>He has learned well from his yid masters and mistresses.
>
>He is a master at taking a piece of text and quoting it selectively to make 
>it give the meaning he desires.

Fundies with IQs smaller than their shoe-size use the same technique.

>
>
>> 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:02 EDT 2008
Article: 1937221 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:14:32 -0700 (PDT), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 2:24�pm, Johannes von Ebersdorf 
>wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:38:17 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On 9/1/2008 11:20 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>> >> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:43:36 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >>  wrote:
>>
>> >>> On 8/29/2008 10:33 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>> >>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:08:39 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >>>>  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:39 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:29:18 -0400, Gord McFee
>> >>>>>>  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> On 8/24/2008 5:58 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:57:27 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>> >>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> "RJ11"  wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>>>news:g8m37l$loo$1@pcls6.std.com...
>> >>>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt
>> >>>>>>>>>> Knoll  wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> What is it you are trying to proof here. It was the
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jews who did declare a finical war against Germany.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Already in 1925, �Adolf Hitler, �in "Mein Kampf",
>> >>>>>>>>>> expressed his will to murder Jews with poison gas.
>> >>>>>>>>>> So, �when he became the ruler of Germany in 1933,
>> >>>>>>>>>> some Jews called to boycott German goods.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Are you sure this is true.
>> >>>>>>>> I doubt that it is true.
>> >>>>>>> You are wrong.
>>
>> >>>>>>>> I own an original German printing of the book.
>> >>>>>>> So do I. �However, I have read my copy.
>>
>> >>>>>>>> What I would like to know is where to find this item in
>> >>>>>>>> the book.
>> >>>>>>> H�tte man zu Kriegsbeginn und w�hrend des Krieges einmal
>> >>>>>>> zw�lf- oder f�nfzehntausend dieser hebr�ischen
>> >>>>>>> Volksverderber so unter Giftgas gehalten, wie
>> >>>>>>> Hunderttausende unserer allerbesten deutschen Arbeiter aus
>> >>>>>>> allen Schichten und Berufen es im Felde erdulden mu�ten,
>> >>>>>>> dann w�re das Millionenopfer der Front nicht vergeblich
>> >>>>>>> gewesen.
>> >>>>>> You are a moron, McFee. Hitler is describing his own
>> >>>>>> experiences and those of his fellow soldiers in an allied
>> >>>>>> poison gas attack. The passage is light-years away from
>> >>>>>> suggesting an extermination policy against Jews. This type of
>> >>>>>> distortion seems to be typical of the holocaust� industry.
>> >>>>> Get someone to translate it for you, dipstick.
>>
>> >>>> I don't need some English-speaking fart like you to interpret
>> >>>> German texts for me, arsehole.
>> >>> Eww... struck a nerve did I?
>>
>> >> It just became really clear that I'm dealing with a clueless
>> >> arsehole, that's all.
>>
>> >Then stop talking to yourself.
>>
>> >> You keep meddling in conversations I'm having
>> >> with others here. Kindly fuck off and mind your own business.
>>
>> >I'll post where I choose, moron.
>>
>> >> If I want your input, I'll ask for it, otherwise stick to trading
>> >> holocaust� fables with McFay and the rest of your crew.
>>
>> >Well, well. �Didn't take long to chase you away. �It seems that all you
>> >clowns are expert cowards.
>>
>> That is another of your endless trail of non-sequiturs. I'm starting
>> to get the feeling that you're suffering from senile dementia.
>
>You know, my folks are from Hungary.  They have/had a story to tell.
>My mother was 14 when she had to go through Czechoslovakia.  One good
>thing is that the Czech authorities kept her and her parents from
>being killed.  How they escaped from Hungary, after being made
>homeless by the Hungarians(certain ethnic German families got kicked
>out of their houses; never a reason given; a lottery perhaps; and for
>you assholes that think they must have been war crims you are ignorant
>fucking shitheads)etc.  McVay puts up these stories about Adriana
>etc.  If you mention German hardship he hates you because he is a
>horrible man.  The story of my family and how they overcame the odds
>and came to Canada, working the second day that they were here etc.
>People like McVay and Salzman are well; the only word that comes to
>mind is filth.  That's about it.  Shitty fucking filth.  I've had
>aunts taken to the Ukraine and forced to work in the coal mines.
>Young girls at the time.  A dispatch rider in the Heer being closed in
>by the Americans in barbed wire.  In an open field.  Red Cross
>supplies burned.  It goes on.

I wouldn't wish an allied "liberation" on anybody. The poor people in
Iraq are the latest victims of an American liberation. It is
disgusting without end.

McVay and his paradigm that Jews have a monopoly on suffering make me
want to puke also, but all one can do is continue to counter their
nonsense.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:03 EDT 2008
Article: 1937222 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:10:59 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:t41rb41inovbilmpgleff2o5th0h5pa5nr@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:38:17 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/1/2008 11:20 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:43:36 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/29/2008 10:33 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:08:39 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:39 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2008 18:29:18 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8/24/2008 5:58 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 13:57:27 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "RJ11"  wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:g8m37l$loo$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article , Kurt
>>>>>>>>>>>> Knoll  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What is it you are trying to proof here. It was the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jews who did declare a finical war against Germany.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Already in 1925,  Adolf Hitler,  in "Mein Kampf",
>>>>>>>>>>>> expressed his will to murder Jews with poison gas.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So,  when he became the ruler of Germany in 1933,
>>>>>>>>>>>> some Jews called to boycott German goods.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Are you sure this is true.
>>>>>>>>>> I doubt that it is true.
>>>>>>>>> You are wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I own an original German printing of the book.
>>>>>>>>> So do I.  However, I have read my copy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What I would like to know is where to find this item in
>>>>>>>>>> the book.
>>>>>>>>> H�tte man zu Kriegsbeginn und w�hrend des Krieges einmal
>>>>>>>>> zw�lf- oder f�nfzehntausend dieser hebr�ischen
>>>>>>>>> Volksverderber so unter Giftgas gehalten, wie
>>>>>>>>> Hunderttausende unserer allerbesten deutschen Arbeiter aus
>>>>>>>>> allen Schichten und Berufen es im Felde erdulden mu�ten,
>>>>>>>>> dann w�re das Millionenopfer der Front nicht vergeblich
>>>>>>>>> gewesen.
>>>>>>>> You are a moron, McFee. Hitler is describing his own
>>>>>>>> experiences and those of his fellow soldiers in an allied
>>>>>>>> poison gas attack. The passage is light-years away from
>>>>>>>> suggesting an extermination policy against Jews. This type of
>>>>>>>> distortion seems to be typical of the holocaustT industry.
>>>>>>> Get someone to translate it for you, dipstick.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't need some English-speaking fart like you to interpret
>>>>>> German texts for me, arsehole.
>>>>> Eww... struck a nerve did I?
>>>>
>>>> It just became really clear that I'm dealing with a clueless
>>>> arsehole, that's all.
>>>
>>>Then stop talking to yourself.
>>>
>>>> You keep meddling in conversations I'm having
>>>> with others here. Kindly fuck off and mind your own business.
>>>
>>>I'll post where I choose, moron.
>>>>
>>>> If I want your input, I'll ask for it, otherwise stick to trading
>>>> holocaustT fables with McFay and the rest of your crew.
>>>
>>>Well, well.  Didn't take long to chase you away.  It seems that all you
>>>clowns are expert cowards.
>>
>> That is another of your endless trail of non-sequiturs. I'm starting
>> to get the feeling that you're suffering from senile dementia.
>
>As have I. He has not been himself for at least 12 months past.
>
He obviously does not use logic, so logical arguments are lost on him.
It is like trying to teach a pig to sing: It frustrates the teacher
and annoys the pig.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:03 EDT 2008
Article: 1937223 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topaz and His TOP TEN NEO-NAZI RULES OF ENGAGEMENT
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 22:58:40 -0700 (PDT), Michael Price
 wrote:

>On Sep 2, 10:25�pm, "B.H. Cramer" 
>wrote:
>> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:188e4dce-11b3-4bdd-9ce5-12ee4a0c32de@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 2, 8:31 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:> "Michael Price"  wrote in message
>>
>> >news:6eb4c145-0897-4142-914f-84723d6e0492@i20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 1, 11:16 pm, Topaz  wrote:
>>
>> > > By Mark Weber
>>
>> > > Much has already been written about Roosevelt's campaign of deception
>> > > and outright lies in getting the United States to intervene in the
>> > > Second World War prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in
>> > > December 1941. Roosevelt's aid to Britain and the Soviet Union in
>> > > violation of American neutrality and international law, his acts of
>> > > war against Germany in the Atlantic in an effort to provoke a German
>> > > declaration of war against the United States, his authorization of a
>> > > vast "dirty tricks" campaign against U.S. citizens by British
>> > > intelligence agents in violation of the Constitution, and his
>> > > provocations and ultimatums against Japan which brought on the attack
>> > > against Pearl Harbor-all this is extensively documented and reasonably
>> > > well known.[1]
>>
>> > > Not so well known is the story of Roosevelt's enormous responsibility
>> > > for the outbreak of the Second World War itself. This essay focuses on
>> > > Roosevelt's secret campaign to provoke war in Europe prior to the
>> > > outbreak of hostilities in September 1939. It deals particularly with
>> > > his efforts to pressure Britain, France and Poland into war against
>> > > Germany in 1938 and 1939.
>>
>> > > Franklin Roosevelt not only criminally involved America in a war which
>> > > had already engulfed Europe. He bears a grave responsibility before
>> > > history for the outbreak of the most destructive war of all time.
>>
>> > > This paper relies heavily on a little-known collection of secret
>> > > Polish documents which fell into German hands when Warsaw was captured
>> > > in September 1939.
>>
>> > >http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p135_Weber.html
>> > > These documents clearly establish Roosevelt's crucial role in bringing
>> > > on the Second World War.
>>
>> > And was the role more "crucial" than that of Hitler, who broke every
>> > agreement he ever signed and invaded countries left and right, including
>> > countries that had already given up territory to placate the Germans? No, in fact
>> > nothing could have caused a war in Europe without Hitler specifically seeking
>> > complete domination of it.
>>
>> > Well - No.
>>
>> � Well, yes.
>>
>> > WWII was totally avoidable.
>>
>> > Read please, and weep.
>>
>> > �None of this disproves that Hitler did exactly what I said. �He lied
>> > and aggressed against all his neighbours including those he made
>> > treaties. �Agreeing to a treaty would only mean that Germany had
>> > more places to attack from like in Czechoslavakia.
>>
>> But it does prove, silly person, that WWII was TOTALLY avoidable.
>
>  Yeah by Hitler.
>
>> It was NOT Hitler who pushed the "GO" button.
>
>  Sorry liar but it was.  Even if we assume that everything he claimed
>about
>Poles attacking a German radio station is true, the attack was
>repulsed within
>hours, well before the allies did anything.  By the time the ultimatum
>was
>made the German army had destroyed much of the Polish air force and
>a lot of their army.  After that they were given two hours to stop
>attacking, more
>than enough time.  The Polish army did not threaten Germany at that
>time
>so if Hitler wanted to he could easily have stopped the attack.
>  He didn't do that because he wanted war, as proven by his agreement
>to
>split Poland with the USSR.  Sorry liar, the facts show Hitler was the
>one
>who could have stopped the war not FDR.

Were the Russians entitled to as much of Poland as they wanted? Why is
your outrage selectively anti-German? If WW2 was about allowing Poland
to keep a bit of stolen German territory, then why was ALL of Poland
handed over to the USSR as a gift once the fighting was over? Clearly
Poland was just an excuse, much like the imaginary weapons of mass
destruction in a more recent Anglo-American military adventure.

>
>>> GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>> > DOCUMENTS
>>
>> > Concerning the Last Phase
>> > of the
>> > German-Polish Crisis
>>
>> > GERMAN LIBRARY OF INFORMATION
>> > NEW YORK
>>
>> > The original German white Book, "Documents Concerning the Last Phase of
>> > the
>> > German-Polish Crisis", is not available to students of international
>> > affairs
>> > in the United States in adequate quantities, owing to illicit British
>> > interferences with the mails.
>>
>> > The German Library of Information, therefore, issues a reprint of the
>> > original for the benefit of such students, with a prefatory note disposing
>> > of certain widely-circulated allegations made in the British Blue Book.
>>
>> > Further copies may be obtained from the German Library of Information, 17
>> > battery Place, New York.
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > INDEX
>> > Note on the German white Book
>> > I. The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> > II. Documents
>> > 1. First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>> > in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>> > of Danzig, August 4, 1939. 12
>> > 2. Second Note from the diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>> > Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August
>> > 4,
>> > 1939
>> > 3. Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig to the
>> > Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939
>> > 4. Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>> > to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939
>> > 5. Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>> > Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939
>> > 6. Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, Aug. 22, 1939
>> > 7. Fuhrer's Reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23, 1939
>> > 8. Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on August 25,
>> > 1939, at 1:30 p. m.
>> > 9. Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August 26, 1939
>> > 10. The Fuhrer's letter of reply to the French premier, August 27, 1939
>> > 11. Memorandum from British Government handed to Reich Minister for
>> > Foreign
>> > Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p.m
>> > 12. The Fuhrer's reply to the British Government handed to the British
>> > Ambassador august 29, 1939 at 6:45 p.m
>> > 13. Telephone Message from the German charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>> > German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939 at 5:30 p. m.
>> > 14. Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister
>> > for
>> > Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at midnight.
>> > 15. Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9 p.m.
>> > containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>> > Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>> > Polish Minorities.
>> > 16. Announcement made by the Polish Broadcasting Station at Warsaw on
>> > August 31, 1939, at 11 p.m.
>> > 17. Speech delivered by the Fuhrer before the Reichstag on September 1,
>> > 1939
>> > 18. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the British
>> > Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 9:30 p. m.
>> > 19. Note handed to the Reich Minister for foreign Affairs by the French
>> > Ambassador on September 1, 1939, at 10 p. m.
>> > 20. Communication handed to the German Foreign Office by the Italian
>> > Ambassador on the morning of September 2, 1939.
>> > 21. Information from the Havas news Agency on September 2, 1939
>> > 22. Extract from a Declaration made by the British Secretary of State for
>> > Foreign affairs in the House of Lords on the afternoon of September 2,
>> > 1939
>> > 23. Note handed to the German Foreign Office by the British Ambassador on
>> > September 3, 1939, at 9 a.m.
>> > 24. Note from the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs handed to
>> > the German Charge d'Affairs in London on September 3, 1939, at 11:a5 a.m.
>> > 25. Memorandum from the German Government handed to the British Ambassador
>> > by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, September 3, 1939, at 11:30
>> > a.m.
>> > 26. Note handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs by the French
>> > Ambassador on September 3, 1939, at 12.20 p.m.
>> > _______________________________________________________
>> > Note on the German White Book
>>
>> > The German White Book, presented herewith, is a collection of official
>> > documents and speeches, not a collection of uncontrollable conversations.
>> > It
>> > does not pretend to cover the entire field of German-Polish relations but,
>> > as the title implies, concerns itself solely with the last phase of the
>> > German-Polish crisis, from August 4th to September 3rd, 1939.
>>
>> > the Polish-german controversy concerning the Corridor, Upper Silesia
>> > and Danzig, began in 1919; it has never, since the signing of the
>> > Versailles
>> > Treaty, ceased to agitate europe. For many years intelligent commentators
>> > and statesmen of all nations, including Great Britain, agreed that the
>> > separation of East Prussia from the Reich and, indeed, the whole Polish
>> > settlement, was unjust and fraught with danger.
>>
>> > Germany, again and again, made attempts to solve the differences
>> > between the two countries in a friendly spirit. It was only when all
>> > negotiations proved vain and Poland joined the encirclement front against
>> > Germany, that chancellor Hitler cut the Gordian knot with the sword. It
>> > was
>> > England that forced the sword into his hand.
>>
>> > Great Britain asserts in her Blue Book and elsewhere that she was
>> > compelled to "guaranty" Poland against "aggression" for reason of
>> > international morality. Unfortunately the British Government subsequently
>> > admitted (Under-Secretary of State Butler, House of Commons, October 19,
>> > 1939) that the "guaranty" was aimed solely against Germany.
>>
>> > It was not valid in case of conflicts with other powers. In other
>> > words, the British "guaranty" was merely a link in the British
>> > encirclement
>> > chain. The Polish crisis was deliberately manufactured by Great Britain
>> > with
>> > the connivance of Poland: it was the fuse designed to set off the
>> > explosion!
>>
>> > Great Britain naturally attempts to becloud this fact. Official British
>> > statements on the outbreak of the war place great emphasis on the
>> > allegation
>> > that England did not give a formal "guaranty" to Poland until March 31,
>> > 193,
>> > whereas the German demand on Poland, which Poland rejected, was made on
>> > march 21st. Britain contends that the British "guaranty" was merely the
>> > consequence of the German demand of March 21st.
>>
>> > Britain denies that her "guaranty" stiffened Polish resistance. She
>> > insists that Germany took advantage of a moment of highly strained
>> > international tension by springing upon Poland her demand for an
>> > extra-territorial road through the Corridor between the Reich and East
>> > Prussia.
>>
>> > The British ignore a vital fact in this connection. The existence of
>> > the "guaranty", not its formal announcement, was the decisive factor. The
>> > future may reveal when the British promise was first dangled before
>> > Poland.
>> > In any event, Poland was assured of British aid before March 21st.
>>
>> > Chamberlain's speech of march 17, 1939, and the statement by Lord
>> > Halifax of March 20th, (both reprinted in the British Blue Book) leave no
>> > doubt on that question. The British "guaranty" was in the nature of a
>> > blank
>> > check. Poland did not know when she marched to her doom, that the check
>> > would not be honored.
>>
>> > The allegations that the Poles were surprised or overwhelmed by the
>> > German proposals, does not hold water. Poland was fully informed of the
>> > German demands. When as Herr von Ribbentrop points out in his Danzig
>> > speech
>> > (October 24, 1939) chancellor Hitler in 1934 concluded a Friendship and
>> > Non-Aggression Pact with Marshal Pilsudski, it was clearly understood that
>> > the problem of Danzig and the Corridor must be solved sooner or later.
>> > Chancellor Hitler hoped that it would be solved within the framework of
>> > that
>> > instrument.
>>
>> > Poland callously disregarded her obligations under the German-Polish
>> > Pact, after the death of Marshal Pilsudski. The persecution of German
>> > minorities in Poland, Poland's measures to strangle Danzig economically,
>> > the
>> > insolent manner the Polish Government chose to adopt with the British
>> > blank
>> > check in its pocket and the Polish mobilization frustrated chancellor
>> > Hitler's desire to settle Polish-German differences by peaceful
>> > negotiation,
>> > as he had solved every other problem arising from the bankruptcy of
>> > statesmanship at Versailles.
>>
>> > No one can affirm that the National Socialist Government did not
>> > attempt with extraordinary patience to impress upon Poland the
>> > desirability
>> > of a prompt and peaceful solution. The Polish Government was familiar with
>> > the specific solution proposed by Chancellor Hitler since October 24,
>> > 1938.
>> > The nature of the German proposals was discussed at least four times
>> > between
>> > the two governments before March 21, 1939.
>>
>> > On October 24, 1938, von Ribbentrop, the German foreign Minister,
>> > proposed to the Polish Ambassador, Lipski, four steps to rectify the
>> > injustice of Versailles and to eliminate all sources of friction between
>> > the
>> > two countries.
>>
>> > 1). The return of the Free City of Danzig to the Reich, without severance
>> > of its economic ties to the Polish State. (The arrangement vouchsafed to
>> > Poland free port privileges and extra-territorial access to the harbor.)
>>
>> > 2.) An exterritorial [sic] route of communication through the Corridor by
>> > rail and motor to reunite Germany and East Prussia.
>>
>> > 3.) Mutual recognition by the two States of their frontiers as final and,
>> > if necessary, a mutual guaranty of their territories.
>>
>> > 4.) The extension of the German-Polish Pact of 1934 from ten to
>> > twenty-five
>> > years.
>>
>> > On January 5, 1939, Poland's Foreign Minister, Josef Beck, conferred
>> > with the German chancellor on the problems involved. At this time
>> > Chancellor Hitler offered Beck a clear and definite guaranty covering the
>> > Corridor, on the basis of the four points outlined by von Ribbentrop. The
>> > following day, January 6th, at Munich, the German Foreign Minister once
>> > more
>> > confirmed Germany's willingness to guaranty, not only the Corridor, but
>> > all
>> > Polish territory.
>>
>> > The generous offer for a settlement along these line, liquidating all
>> > friction between the two countries, was reiterated when Foreign Minister
>> > von
>> > Ribbentrop paid a state visit to Warsaw (January 23rd to 17th, 1939). On
>> > that occasion von Ribbentrop again offered a guaranty of the Polish-German
>> > boundaries and a final all-inclusive settlement of German-Polish
>> > relations.
>>
>> > Under the circumstances it is absurd to allege that Poland was
>> > "surprised" by the German proposal of March 21st, and subsequent
>> > developments. It is possible that Poland may have concealed Germany's
>> > friendly and conciliatory offers from Paris and London. With or without
>> > British promptings, Poland prepared the stage for a melodramatic scene, in
>> > which the German villain brutally threatened her sovereignty and her
>> > independence.
>>
>> > In spite of Polish intransigence, culminating in threats of war,
>> > Chancellor Hitler made one more desperate attempt to prevent the conflict.
>> > He called for a Polish plenipotentiary to discuss the solution presented
>> > in
>> > Document 15 of the German White book. This solution envisaged the return
>> > of
>> > Danzig to the Reich, the protection of Polish and German minorities, a
>> > plebiscite in the Corridor under neutral auspices, safeguarding,
>> > irrespective of the result, Poland's unimpeded exterritorial access to the
>> > sea.
>>
>> > The British are please to describe this reasonable document as an
>> > "ultimatum". This is a complete distortion of the facts. The German
>> > government, it is true, had set a time-limit (August 30th) for the
>> > acceptance of its proposal, but it waited twenty-four hours after its
>> > expiration before concluding that the possibilities of diplomatic
>> > negotiations had been exhausted. There was ample opportunity for England
>> > and
>> > Poland to act within those twenty-four hours.
>>
>> > The British take the position that Germany's demands were not known
>> > either in Warsaw or London. That pretense is demolished by the British
>> > Blue
>> > Book itself, for we find here a dispatch from Sir Nevile Henderson, the
>> > British Ambassador to Berlin, which leaves no doubt that he relayed the
>> > German proposal to London after his midnight conference with von
>> > Ribbentrop
>> > on August 30th, and that he understood the essential points of the German
>> > proposal. Henderson even transmitted to the British Government Chancellor
>> > Hitler's assurance that the Polish negotiator would be received as a
>> > matter
>> > of course on terms of complete equality with the courtesy and
>> > consideration
>> > due to the emissary of a sovereign state.
>>
>> > Henderson sent his night message not only to Downing Street, but also
>> > to the British Embassy in Warsaw. There is evidence, which has recently
>> > come
>> > into the possession of the German Foreign Office that, in spite of all its
>> > protestations of ignorance and helplessness, the British Cabinet
>> > communicated the substance of Henderson's midnight conversation with the
>> > German Foreign Minister directly to the Polish Government. The London
>> > Daily
>> > Telegraph, in a late edition of August 31st, printed the following
>> > statement:
>> > "At the Cabinet Meeting yesterday, at which the terms of the British Note
>> > were approved, it was decided to send a massage to Warsaw, indicating the
>> > extent of the latest demands from Berlin for the annexation of territory".
>>
>> > This item appeared only in a few issues. It was suppressed in later
>> > editions.
>>
>> > Germany's demands were so reasonable that no sane Polish Government
>> > would have dared to reject them. They certainly would have been accepted
>> > if
>> > England had advised moderation. There was one more chance to preserve
>> > peace
>> > on September 2nd. It was offered by a message from Premier Mussolini
>> > (Document 20). The Italian suggestion was acceptable to Germany and France
>> > (Document 21). but was rejected by Great Britain (Document 22).
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> > I
>> > THE LAST PHASE
>> > of the German-Polish Crisis
>> > (pp.7-12)
>> > Appended to this are printed the documents which were exchanged during
>> > the last days before the beginning of the German defensive action against
>> > Poland and the intervention of the western Powers, or which in any other
>> > respect refer to these events. These documents, when shortly
>> > recapitulated,
>> > give the following general survey:
>> > 1). At the beginning of August the Reich Government was informed of an
>> > exchange of notes between the representative of Poland in Danzig and the
>> > Senate of the Free City (Danzig), according to which the Polish Government
>> > in the form of a short-term ultimatum and under threat of retaliatory
>> > measures had demanded the withdrawal of an alleged order of the Senate -- �
>> > an
>> > order which, in fact, had never been issued -- concerning the activities
>> > of
>> > Polish customs inspectors (Documents 1 to 3).
>> > This caused the Reich Government to inform the Polish Government, on
>> > August 9th, that a repetition of such demands in the form of an ultimatum
>> > would lead to an aggravation of the relations between Germany and Poland,
>> > for the consequences of which the Polish government would alone be
>> > responsible.
>> > At the same time, the attention of the Polish Government was drawn to
>> > the fact that the maintenance of the economic measures adopted by Poland
>> > against Danzig would force the Free City to seek other export and import
>> > possibilities (Document 4).
>> > The Polish government answered this communication from the Reich
>> > Government with an aide-Memoire of August 10th, handed to the German
>> > Embassy
>> > in Warsaw, which culminated in the statement that Poland would interpret
>> > every intervention of the Reich Government in Danzig matters, which might
>> > endanger Polish rights and interests there, as an aggressive action
>> > (Document 5).
>>
>> > 2). On August 22nd, the British Prime Minister, Mr. Neville Chamberlain,
>> > acting under the impression of announcements of the impending conclusion
>> > of
>> > a Non-Aggression Pact between Germany and the U.S.S.R., sent a personal
>> > letter to the Fuhrer. Here he expressed on the one hand the firm
>> > determination of the British Government to fulfill its pledged obligations
>> > to Poland, on the other hand, the view that it was most advisable in the
>> > first instance to restore an atmosphere of confidence and then to solve
>> > the
>> > German-Polish problems through negotiations terminating in a settlement
>> > which should be internationally guaranteed (Document 6).
>> > The Fuhrer, in his reply of August 23rd, set forth the real causes of
>> > the German-Polish crisis.
>> > He referred in particular to the generous proposal made by him in March
>> > of this year and stated that the false reports spread by England at that
>> > time regarding a German mobilization against Poland, the equally incorrect
>> > assertions about Germany's aggressive intentions towards Hungary and
>> > Roumania and, finally, the guarantee given by England and France to the
>> > Polish Government had encouraged the Polish Government not only to decline
>> > the German offer but to let loose a wave of terror against the Germans
>> > domiciled in Poland and to strangle Danzig economically. At the same time,
>> > the Fuhrer declared that Germany would not let herself be kept back from
>> > protecting her vital rights by any methods of intimidation whatsoever
>> > (Document 7).
>>
>> > 3). Although the above-mentioned letter from the British Prime Minister of
>> > August 22nd, as well as speeches made on the subsequent day by British
>> > statesmen, showed a complete lack of understanding for the German
>> > standpoint, the Fuhrer nevertheless resolved to make a fresh attempt to
>> > arrive at an understanding with England.
>> > On August 25th, he received the British Ambassador, once more with
>> > complete frankness explained to him his conception of the situation, and
>> > communicated to him the main principles of comprehensive and far-sighted
>> > agreement between Germany and England which he would offer to the British
>> > Government once the problem of Danzig and the Polish Corridor was settled
>> > (Document 8).
>>
>> > 4). while the British government were discussing the preceding declaration
>> > from the Fuhrer, and exchange of letters took place between the French
>> > President, M. Daladier, and the Fuhrer. In his answer the Fuhrer again
>> > submitted his reasons for Germany's standpoint in the German Polish
>> > question
>> > and once more repeated his firm decision to regard the present
>> > Franco-German
>> > frontier as final (Documents 9 and 10).
>>
>> > 5). In their answer to the step taken by the Fuhrer on August 25th, which
>> > was handed over on the evening of August 28th, the British Government
>> > declared themselves prepared to consider the proposal for a revision of
>> > Anglo-German relationships. They further stated that a they had received a
>> > definite assurance from the Polish Government that they were prepared to
>> > enter into direct discussions with the reich Government on German-Polish
>> > questions.
>> > At the same time they repeated that in their opinions a German-Polish
>> > settlement must be safeguarded by international guarantees (Document 11).
>> > Despite grave misgivings arising from the whole of Poland's previous
>> > attitude and despite justifiable doubts in a sincere willingness on the
>> > part
>> > of the Polish Government for a direct settlement, the Fuhrer, in his
>> > answer
>> > handed to the British Ambassador on the afternoon of August 29th, accepted
>> > the British proposal and declared that the Reich Government awaited the
>> > arrival of a Polish representative invested with plenipotentiary powers on
>> > August 30th. At the same time the Fuhrer announced that the Reich
>> > Government
>> > would immediately draft proposals for a solution acceptable to them and
>> > would, if possible, have these ready for the British Government before the
>> > Polish negotiator arrived (Document 12).
>>
>> > 6). In the course of August 30th, neither a Polish negotiator with
>> > plenipotentiary powers nor any communication from the British Government
>> > about steps undertaken by them reached Berlin. On the contrary, it was on
>> > this day that the Reich Government were informed of the ordering of a
>> > general Polish mobilization (document 13).
>> > Only at midnight did the British Ambassador hand over a new memorandum
>> > which, however, failed to disclose any practical progress in the treatment
>> > of Polish-German questions and confined itself to a statement that the
>> > Fuhrer's answer of the preceding day was to be communicated to the Polish
>> > Government and that the British Government considered it impracticable to
>> > establish a German-Polish contact so early as on August 30th (Document
>> > 14).
>>
>> > 7). Although the non-appearance of the Polish negotiator had done away
>> > with the conditions under which the British government were to be informed
>> > of the Reich government's conception of the basis on which negotiations
>> > might be possible, the proposals since formulated by the Reich were none
>> > the
>> > less communicated and explained in detail to the British Ambassador when
>> > he
>> > handed over the above-mentioned memorandum.
>> > The Reich Government expected that now at any rate, subsequently to
>> > this, a Polish plenipotentiary would be appointed. Instead, the Polish
>> > Ambassador in Berlin made a verbal declaration to the Reich Minister for
>> > Foreign Affairs on the afternoon of August 31st, to the effect that the
>> > Polish Government had been informed in the preceding night by the British
>> > government that there was a possibility of direct negotiations between the
>> > Reich Government and the Polish Government, and that the Polish Government
>> > were favorably considering the British proposal.
>> > When expressly asked by the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs whether
>> > he had the authority to negotiate on the German proposals, the Ambassador
>> > stated that he was not entitled to do so, but had merely been instructed
>> > to
>> > make the foregoing verbal declaration. A further question from the Reich
>> > Minister for Foreign Affairs whether he could enter into an objective
>> > discussion on the matter was expressly denied by the Ambassador.
>>
>> > 8). The Reich Government thus were confronted with the fact that they had
>> > spent two days waiting in vain for a Polish plenipotentiary. On the
>> > evening
>> > of August 31st, they published the German proposals with a short account
>> > of
>> > the events leading up to them (Document 15).
>> > These proposals were described as unacceptable by Polish broadcast
>> > (Document 16).
>>
>> > 9). Now that every possibility for a peaceful settlement of the
>> > Polish-German crisis was thus exhausted, the Fuhrer saw himself compelled
>> > to
>> > resist by force the force which the Poles had long employed against
>> > Danzig,
>> > against the Germans in Poland, and finally, by innumerable violations of
>> > the
>> > frontier, against Germany.
>>
>> > 10). On the evening of September 1st, the Ambassadors of Great Britain and
>> > France handed to the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs two notes couched
>> > in
>> > the same terms in which they demanded that Germany should withdraw her
>> > troops from Polish territory, and declared that if this demand were not
>> > conceded, their respective Governments would fulfill their obligations to
>> > Poland without further delay (Documents 18 and 19).
>>
>> > 11). In order to banish the menace of war, which had come dangerously
>> > close in consequence of these two notes, the Duce made a proposal for an
>> > armistice and a subsequent conference for the settlement of the
>> > German-Polish conflict (Document 20).
>> > The Germans and the French Government replied in the affirmative to
>> > this proposal whilst the British Government refused to accept it
>> > (Documents
>> > 21 and 11).
>> > That this was so was already apparent in the speeches made by the
>> > British Prime Minister and the British Secretary of State for Foreign
>> > Affairs on the afternoon of September 2nd in the British Houses of
>> > Parliament, and a communication to that effect was made to the Reich
>> > Minister for Foreign Affairs by the Italian Ambassador on the evening of
>> > September 2nd. Thus also in the opinion of the Italian Government the
>> > initiative of the Duce had been wrecked by England.
>>
>> > 12). On September 3rd, at 9 a.m., the British Ambassador arrived at the
>> > German Foreign Office and handed over a note in which the British
>> > Government, fixing a time limit of two hours, repeated their demand for a
>> > withdrawal of the German troops and, in the event of a refusal, declared
>> > themselves to be at war with Germany after this time limit had expired
>> > (Document 23).
>>
>> > The British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on September 3rd,
>> > 1939, at 11:15 a. m. delivered a note to the German Charge d'Affairs in
>> > London in which he informed him that a state of war existed between the
>> > two
>> > countries as from 11 a. m. on September 3rd (Document 24).
>>
>> > On the same day, at 11:30 a. m. the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs
>> > handed to the British Ambassador in Berlin a memorandum from the Reich
>> > Government in which the Reich rejected the demands expressed by the
>> > British
>> > Government in the form of an ultimatum and in which it was proved that the
>> > responsibility for the outbreak of war rested solely with the British
>> > Government (Document 25).
>>
>> > On the afternoon of September 3rd, the French Ambassador in Berlin
>> > called on the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs and inquired whether the
>> > Reich government were in a position to give a satisfactory answer to the
>> > question directed to them by the French government in their note of
>> > September 1st. The Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs told the Ambassador
>> > that after the English and French Notes of September had been handed to
>> > him,
>> > the Head of the Italian Government had made a new intermediary proposal,
>> > to
>> > which the Duce had added, the French Government had agreed.
>>
>> > The Reich Government had informed the Duce on the preceding day that
>> > they were also prepared to accept the proposal.
>>
>> > The Duce however had informed them later on in the day that his
>> > proposal had been wrecked by the intransigent attitude of the British
>> > Government.
>>
>> > The British Government several hours previously had presented German
>> > with an ultimatum which had been rejected on the German side by a
>> > memorandum
>> > which he, the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs, would hand over to the
>> > French Ambassador for his information.
>>
>> > Should the attitude of France towards Germany be determined by the same
>> > considerations as that of the British Government, the Reich Minister for
>> > Foreign Affairs could only regret this fact. Germany had always sought
>> > understanding with France. Should the French Government, despite this fact
>> > adopt a hostile attitude towards Germany on account of their obligations
>> > towards Poland, the German people would regard this as a totally
>> > unjustifiable aggressive war on the part of France against the Reich.
>>
>> > The French Ambassador replied that he understood from the remarks of
>> > the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs that the Reich Government were not
>> > in
>> > a position to give a satisfactory answer to the French Note of September
>> > 1st. Under these circumstances he had the unpleasant task of informing the
>> > Reich Government that the French Government were forced to fulfill the
>> > obligations which they had entered into towards Poland, from September 3rd
>> > at 5 p.m. onwards.
>>
>> > The French Ambassador at the same time handed over a corresponding
>> > written communication (CF, Document 26).
>>
>> > The Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs thereupon declared in conclusion
>> > the the French Government would bear the full responsibility for the
>> > suffering which the nations would have to bear if France attacked Germany.
>>
>> > GERMAN WHITE BOOK
>> > Concerning The Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> > II
>>
>> > Documents
>> > Documents 1 through 8 (of 26)
>>
>> > 1. First Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland
>> > in the Free City of Danzig to the President of the Senate of the Free City
>> > of Danzig, august 4, 1939
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > I learn that the local Danzig customs officials posted on the frontier
>> > between the Free City of Danzig and East Prussia have declared in an
>> > unprecedented statement to the Polish customs officials, that the Danzig
>> > executives intend from 7 o'clock a. m. on august 6th onwards to oppose a
>> > certain number of Polish inspectors in the exercise of their normal
>> > duties,
>> > which functions are a part of the prerogatives of the Polish government on
>> > the customs frontier. I am convinced that this act on the part of the
>> > local
>> > authorities depends either on a misunderstanding or on an erroneous
>> > interpretation of the instructions of the Senate of the Free city of
>> > Danzig.
>>
>> > I am fully convinced that you, Mr. President of the Senate, can have no
>> > doubt that this infringement of the fundamental rights of Poland will on
>> > no
>> > pretext whatever be tolerated by the Polish Government.
>>
>> > I await, by august 5th at 6 p. m. at the latest, your answer with the
>> > assurance that you have given instructions cancelling the action of your
>> > subordinates.
>> > In view of the fact that the above-mentioned action is one of a series
>> > which have taken place on the frontier, I am forced to warn you, mr.
>> > president of the Senate, that all Polish customs inspectors have received
>> > the order to appear for duty in uniform and bearing arms, on August 6th of
>> > the current year and on subsequent days, at every point on the frontier
>> > which they consider necessary for examination of the customs.
>>
>> > Every attempt made to hinder them in the exercise of their duties,
>> > every attack or intervention on the part of the police will be regarded by
>> > the Polish Government as an act of violence against the officials of the
>> > Polish State in the pursuance of their duties.
>>
>> > If the above-mentioned illegal actions should take place, the Polish
>> > Government will take retaliatory measures (retorsions) without delay
>> > against
>> > the Free City, as the responsibility for them will rest entirely on the
>> > Senate of the Free City.
>>
>> > I hope to receive a satisfactory explanation before the above-mentioned
>> > date.
>>
>> > (signed): CHODACKI,
>>
>> > Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland.
>> > ________________________________________
>> > 2. Second Note from the Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of
>> > Poland to the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig, August
>> > 4,
>> > 1939
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > Danzig, August 4, 1939.
>>
>> > Mr. President of the Senate:
>> > The Polish Government beg to express its astonishment at the fact that
>> > the Senate should find technical difficulties in replying to so simple a
>> > matter. In the interest of avoiding threatening consequences, I note for
>> > the
>> > time being that no act of violence will be undertaken against our customs
>> > inspectors and that they will be able to proceed in a normal way with
>> > their
>> > duties. I must repeat nevertheless that the admonitions contained in my
>> > note
>> > of August 4th, 11:40 p. m. remain in force.
>>
>> > I beg to remain. . .
>>
>> > (signed): CHODACKI
>>
>> > To
>> > His Excellency, Herr Arthur Greiser,
>> > President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig
>> > _____________________________________________
>> > 3. Reply of the President of the Senate of the Free City of Danzig to the
>> > Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland, August 7, 1939.
>> > (Translation)
>> > Danzig, August 7, 1939
>>
>> > His Excellency
>> > The Diplomatic Representative of the Republic of Poland.
>> > M. Chodacki, Minister with plenipotentiary powers,
>> > Danzig.
>>
>> > Sir:
>> > In reply to your two notes dated the 4th of this month, the second of
>> > which I received on August 5th, I must express my astonishment to you that
>> > you should make a completely unverified rumor a pretext for sending the
>> > Danzig Government a short-term ultimatum from the Polish Government, and
>> > thus in this time of political unrest conjure up unfounded danger which
>> > may
>> > result in inconceivable disaster.
>>
>> > The sudden decree of the Polish Government that all Polish customs
>> > officials on duty are to appear in uniform and bearing arms, is a breach
>> > of
>> > the arrangement agreed upon and can be understood only as an intentional
>> > provocation to bring about incidents and acts of violence of the most
>> > dangerous nature.
>> > According to facts which I have since ascertained and concerning which
>> > I immediately telephoned to you on Saturday morning, the 5th inst., no
>> > order
>> > announcing that the Danzig executives from August 6th at 7 a. m. onwards
>> > are
>> > to oppose a certain number of Polish inspectors in the exercise of their
>> > normal duties has been issued from an office, certainly not from any
>> > administrative quarter of the Customs Office of the Free City of Danzig.
>>
>> > I refer you further to my note of June 3rd of this year, in which I
>> > already carefully defined the relationship of the Danzig customs officials
>> > and the Polish customs inspectors on the frontier.
>>
>> > The Danzig Government protest with great energy against the threatened
>> > retorsions of the Polish Government which they regard as an absolutely
>> > inadmissible threat and the consequences of which will devolve on the
>> > Polish
>> > Government alone.
>>
>> > I beg to remain. . .
>>
>> > (signed): GREISER
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > 4. Communication from the Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office
>> > to the Polish Charge d'Affairs in Berlin, August 9, 1939.
>> > (Translation)
>> > Berlin, August 9, 1939.
>>
>> > The Reich Government have received with great astonishment information
>> > of the note of the Polish Government to the Senate of the Free City of
>> > danzig, in which a demand was made in the form of an ultimatum to revoke
>> > an
>> > alleged decree intended to hinder the Polish customs inspectors in the
>> > exercise of their normal duties (which decree, however, was based on
>> > unfounded rumors, and in reality had never been issued by the Senate of
>> > the
>> > Free City of Danzig). In case of a refusal, the Free City of Danzig was
>> > threatened with retaliatory measures.
>>
>> > The Reich Government see themselves obliged to point out to the Polish
>> > Government that the repetition of such a demand, in the form of an
>> > ultimatum, to the Free City of Danzig and the threat of retaliatory
>> > measures
>> > would lead to greater tension in the relationship between Germany and
>> > Poland, and that the responsibility of such consequences would devolve
>> > exclusively on the Polish Government, the German Government already now
>> > declining all responsibility for them.
>>
>> > The German Government further draw the attention of the Polish
>> > Government to the fact that the measures taken by the Polish Government to
>> > prevent the import of certain goods from the Free City of Danzig to Poland
>> > are likely to bring about serious economic loss to the population of
>> > Danzig.
>>
>> > Should the Polish Government insist on further lending their support to
>> > such measures, there would, in the opinion of the Reich Government, be no
>> > choice left to the Free City of Danzig, as matters lie, but to seek other
>> > export and consequently import possibilities.
>> > _____________________________________________________
>> > 5. Communication from the Under-Secretary of State in the Polish Foreign
>> > Office to the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw, August 10, 1939.
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > With the greatest surprise 'the Government of the Republic of Poland
>> > have taken note of the declaration given in Berlin on August 9, 1939, by
>> > the
>> > Secretary of State in the German Foreign Office to the Charge d'Affairs
>> > a.i.
>> > of Poland on the relations existing between Poland and the Free City of
>> > Danzig. The Polish Government in fact cannot perceive any legal foundation
>> > justifying Germany to interfere in the above-mentioned relations.
>>
>> > Whatever discussions on the Danzig problem may have taken place between
>> > the Polish Government and the Government of the Reich, these had their
>> > foundation merely in the good will of the Government and did not arise out
>> > of any obligation whatsoever.
>>
>> > In reply to the aforesaid declaration of the Government of the Reich,
>> > the Polish Government are compelled to point out to the German Government
>> > that, as hitherto, they will in the future oppose by such means and
>> > measures
>> > as the Polish Government alone consider adequate, any attempt made by the
>> > authorities of the Free City of Danzig to jeopardize the rights and
>> > interests that Poland possesses in Danzig, on the basis of the agreement
>> > to
>> > which she is a part, and that the Polish Government will consider as an
>> > aggressive act any possible intervention of the Government of the Reich
>> > which may endanger these rights and interests.
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > 6. Letter from the British Prime Minister to the Fuhrer, August 22, 1939.
>> > 10. downing Street, Whitehall,
>> > August 22, 1939.
>>
>> > Your Excellency:
>>
>> > Your Excellency will have already heard of certain measures taken by
>> > His Majesty's Government, and announced in the press and on the wireless
>> > this evening.
>>
>> > These steps have, in the opinion of His Majesty's'y Government, been
>> > rendered necessary by the military movements which have been reported from
>> > Germany, and by the fact that apparently the announcement of a
>> > German-Soviet
>> > Agreement is taken in some quarters in Berlin to indicate that
>> > intervention
>> > by Great Britain on behalf of Poland is no longer a contingency that need
>> > be
>> > reckoned with.
>>
>> > No greater mistake could be made. Whatever may prove to be the nature
>> > of the German-Soviet Agreement, it cannot alter Great Britain's obligation
>> > to Poland which His Majesty's Government have stated in public repeatedly
>> > and plainly, and which they are determined to fulfill.
>>
>> > it has been alleged that, if His Majesty's Government had made their
>> > position more clear in 1914, the great catastrophe would have been
>> > avoided.
>> > Whether or not there is any force in that allegation, His Majesty's
>> > Government are resolved that on this occasion there shall be no such
>> > tragic
>> > misunderstanding.
>>
>> > If the case should arise, they are resolved, and prepared, to employ
>> > without delay all the forces at their command, and it is impossible to
>> > foresee the end of hostilities once engaged. It would be a dangerous
>> > illusion to think that, if war once starts, it will come to an early end
>> > even if a success on any one of the several fronts on which it will be
>> > engaged should have been secured.
>>
>> > Having thus made our position perfectly clear, I wish to repeat to you
>> > my conviction that war between our two peoples would be the greatest
>> > calamity that could occur. I am certain that it is desired neither by our
>> > people, nor by yours, and I cannot see that there is anything in the
>> > questions arising between Germany and Poland which could not and should
>> > not
>> > be resolved without the use of force, if only a situation of confidence
>> > could be restored to enable discussions to be carried on in an atmosphere
>> > different from that which prevails today.
>>
>> > We have been, and at all times will be, ready to assist in creating
>> > conditions in which such negotiations could take place, and in which it
>> > might be possible concurrently to discuss the wider problems affecting the
>> > future of international relations, including matters of interest to us and
>> > to you.
>>
>> > The difficulties in the way of any peaceful discussion in the present
>> > state of tension are, however, obvious, and the longer that tension is
>> > maintained, the harder will it be for reason to prevail.
>>
>> > These difficulties, however, might be mitigated, if not removed,
>> > provided that there could for an initial period be a truce on both
>> > sides --
>> > and indeed on all sides -- to press polemics and to all incitement.
>>
>> > If such a truce could be arranged, then, at the end of that period,
>> > during which steps could be taken to examine and deal with complaints made
>> > by either side as to the treatment of minorities, it is reasonable to hope
>> > that suitable conditions might have been established for direct
>> > negotiations
>> > between Germany and Poland upon the issues between them (with the aid of a
>> > neutral intermediary, if both sides should think that that would be
>> > helpful).
>>
>> > But I am bound to say that there would be slender hope of bringing such
>> > negotiations to successful issue unless it were understood beforehand that
>> > any settlement reached would, when concluded, be guaranteed by other
>> > Powers.
>> > His Majesty's Government would be ready, if desired, to make such
>> > contribution as they could to the effective operation of such guarantees.
>>
>> > At this moment I confess I can see no other way to avoid a catastrophe
>> > that will involve Europe in war.
>>
>> > In view of the grave consequences to humanity, which may follow from
>> > the action of their rulers, I trust that Your Excellency will weigh with
>> > the
>> > utmost deliberation the considerations which I have put before you.
>>
>> > (Signed): NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN.
>> > ___________________________________________
>> > 7. The Fuhrer's Letter in reply to the British Prime Minister, August 23,
>> > 1939.
>> > (Translation)
>> > August 23, 1939.
>>
>> > Your Excellency:
>>
>> > The Ambassador to His Britannic Majesty has just handed me a note in
>> > which Your Excellency, in the name of the British Government, has drawn
>> > attention to a number of points, which, in your opinion, are of extreme
>> > importance.
>>
>> > I beg to reply to your note as follows:
>> > 1. Germany has never sought to enter into conflict with Great Britain nor
>> > at any time interfered where British interests were concerned. On the
>> > contrary, Germany has for many years, although unfortunately without
>> > success, attempted to gain the friendship for Great Britain. For this
>> > reason, Germany voluntarily undertook a restriction of her own interests
>> > throughout a large area in Europe which would otherwise have been
>> > difficult
>> > to justify from a national political point of view.
>>
>> > 2. The German Reich, however, has, like every other state, certain
>> > interests which it is impossible for it to renounce and which lie within
>> > the
>> > category which Germany's past history and her economic necessities have
>> > rendered of vital importance. Certain of these problems were, and are, of
>> > the utmost importance to any German Government bot, from a national
>> > political and from a psychological point of view.
>>
>> > One of these problems is that of the German City of Danzig and the
>> > problem of the Polish Corridor connected therewith. Only a few years ago
>> > this fact was recognized by numerous statesmen, by authorities in
>> > historical
>> > research and literary men, even in England.
>>
>> > I should like to add that the civilization of all those areas which
>> > come within the sphere of German interests aforementioned, and especially
>> > those provinces which have returned to the Reich within the past eighteen
>> > months, was developed not by Englishmen but exclusively by Germans, and,
>> > in
>> > part, during a period of history which covers more than the last thousand
>> > years.
>>
>> > 3. Germany was prepared to settle the problem of Danzig and of the Polish
>> > Corridor by a very generous proposal, made once for all, and by means of
>> > negotiations. The assertions disseminated by Great Britain with regard to
>> > the mobilization of German troops against Poland, the assertion concerning
>> > aggressive intentions with regard to Roumania, Hungary, etc., as also the
>> > more recent so-called guarantees given to Poland, effectually destroyed
>> > any
>> > inclinations on the part of Poland to negotiate on a basis which would at
>> > the same time be acceptable to germany.
>>
>> > 4. The general assurance given by Great Britain to Poland that Great
>> > Britain would support Poland in case of conflict in any circumstance,
>> > irrespective of the causes giving rise to such conflict, could only be
>> > regarded here as an incitement to let loose, under cover of what might be
>> > termed a bland cheque, a wave of unspeakable terror against the one and a
>> > half million Germans domiciled in Poland.
>>
>> > The atrocities which have taken place there since that time were
>> > terrible indeed for those on whom they were inflicted, but intolerable for
>> > the German Reich, which, as one of the Great Powers, was expected to watch
>> > them idly.
>>
>> > In regard to the Free city of Danzig, Poland has, on countless
>> > occasions, infringed its rights, sent demands which were in the nature of
>> > an
>> > ultimatum and begun a process of economic strangulation.
>>
>> > 5. The Reich government informed the Polish government a short time ago
>> > that they were not inclined to accept these developments in silence, that
>> > they would not tolerate the dispatch of further notes couched in the form
>> > of
>> > an ultimatum to Danzig, that they would not tolerate a continuance of acts
>> > of violence inflicted on the German section of the population, nor would
>> > they tolerate the ruin of the Free City of Danzig by means of economic
>> > pressure, that is to say, the destruction of the very existence of the
>> > population of Danzig by a form of customs blockade, nor would they
>> > tolerate
>> > the continuance of such acts of provocation against the Reich. Regardless
>> > of
>> > the above, a solution must and will be found for the problem of Danzig and
>> > of the Polish Corridor.
>>
>> > 6. Your Excellency informs me in the name of the British Government that
>> > in the event of any act of interference on the part of Germany, you will
>> > be
>> > compelled to support Poland. I have taken due note of your statement and
>> > can
>> > assure you that it can in no way shake the determination of the Reich
>> > government to protect the interests of the Reich as set forth in Section
>> > 5.
>>
>> > I likewise agree with your assurance that the ensuing war would, in
>> > this case, be a long one. If Germany is attacked by Britain, she is
>> > prepared
>> > and determined to fight.
>>
>> > I have often declared to the German people and to the whole world that
>> > there can be no doubts as to the determination of the New German Reich to
>> > accept privation and misfortune in any form and at any time rather than
>> > sacrifice her national interests or even her honor.
>>
>> > 7. The Reich Government have received information of the fact that the
>> > British Government intend to carry out mobilization measures, which in
>> > their
>> > nature are solely directed against Germany, as is stated in Your
>> > Excellency's note addressed to me. This is stated also to apply to France.
>>
>> > As Germany never intended to adopt military measures other than those
>> > of a purely defensive nature against either Great Britain or France and,
>> > as
>> > has already been emphasized, never intended nor in the future intends to
>> > attack either Great Britain or France, the announcement which Your
>> > Excellency confirmed in your note can only constitute an intended threat
>> > against the Reich. I must therefore, inform Your Excellency that in the
>> > event of such military measures being taken, I shall order the immediate
>> > mobilization of the German armed forces.
>>
>> > 8. The question of a settlement of European problems in a peaceful spirit
>> > cannot be decided by Germany but chiefly by those who, since the crime of
>> > the Treaty of Versailles was committed, have steadily and obstinately
>> > opposed any peaceful revision of its terms.
>>
>> > Only a change of attitude on the part of the Powers responsible for the
>> > Treaty can bring about a change for the better in the existing relations
>> > between Britain and Germany.
>>
>> > During my whole life-time I have struggled to achieve a friendship
>> > between Britain and Germany, but the attitude adopted by British
>> > diplomacy,
>> > up to the present at least, has served to convince me of the hopelessness
>> > of
>> > such an attempt. If the future were to bring a change in this respect,
>> > none
>> > would welcome it more than I.
>> > _________________________________________________
>> > 8. Declaration made by the Fuhrer to the British Ambassador on August 25,
>> > 2939, at 1:30 p.m.
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > The Fuhrer declared at the outset that the British Ambassador at the
>> > close of their last conversation had expressed the hope that it would
>> > still
>> > prove possible to arrive at an understanding between Germany and England.
>> > He, the Fuhrer, had thereupon considered the situation once more and
>> > intended today to take a step in regard to England which was to be as
>> > decisive as the step taken in regard to Russia, the result of which had
>> > been
>> > the recent pact.
>>
>> > Yesterday's meeting of the House of Commons and the speeches made by
>> > Mr. chamberlain and Lord Halifax were further reasons why the Fuhrer had
>> > again invited the British Ambassador to meet him.
>>
>> > The assertion that Germany wanted to conquer the world was ridiculous.
>> > The British Empire covered a territory of forty million square
>> > kilometers, Russia of nineteen million square kilometers, America of nine
>> > and a half million square kilometers and Germany of less than 600,000
>> > square
>> > kilometers. It was thus quite clear who wanted to conquer the world.
>>
>> > The Fuhrer informed the British Ambassador of the following:
>> > 1) The acts of provocation committed by Poland had become intolerable,
>> > irrespective of who might be responsible for them.
>> > If the Polish government contested their responsibility, this merely
>> > proved that they themselves had no longer any influence on their military
>> > subordinates. In the preceding night twenty-one new frontier incidents had
>> > occurred.
>>
>> > On the German side the utmost discipline had been displayed. All the
>> > incidents were due to Polish provocation.
>> > Besides this, civil aeroplanes had been fire on. If the Polish
>> > Government declared themselves not responsible, this merely proved that
>> > they
>> > were unable to keep control over their own people.
>>
>> > 2) Germany was resolved under all circumstances to put an end to these
>> > Macedonian conditions on her eastern frontier, not only in the interests
>> > of
>> > law and order but also for the sake of European peace.
>>
>> > 3. The problem of Danzig and the Corridor would have to be solved.
>> > The British Prime Minister had made a speech which had done nothing
>> > towards bringing about a change in the German attitude. This speech might,
>> > if anything, give rise to a desperate and incalculable war between Germany
>> > and england, a war which would cause far greater bloodshed than that of
>> > 1914.
>> > In contrast to the last world war, Germany would not have to carry on a
>> > war on two fronts. The agreement concluded with Russia was unconditional
>> > and
>> > represented a turning point in the foreign policy of the Reich for the
>> > longest conceivable time. In no circumstance would Russia and Germany
>> > again
>> > take up arms against one another. Apart from this fact the agreements made
>> > with Russia would safeguard Germany, in economic respects also, for a war
>> > of
>> > the longest duration.
>>
>> > The Fuhrer had always been strongly in favor of Anglo-German
>> > understanding. A war between england and Germany could in the most
>> > favorable
>> > circumstances bring Germany an advantage, but certainly not the slightest
>> > gain to England.
>>
>> > The Fuhrer declared that the German-Polish problem had to and would be
>> > settled. He was, however, ready and resolved to approach England again,
>> > after his settlement, with a generous and comprehensive offer. He himself
>> > was a man of great decisions and he would in this case also be capable of
>> > a
>> > great action. he approved of the British Empire and was prepared to give a
>> > personal undertaking for its existence and to stake the might of the
>> > German
>> > Reich to that end provided that:
>> > 1) His Colonial demands, which were limited and could be settled by
>> > peaceful negotiations, were fulfilled, for which he was prepared to
>> > concede
>> > a most protracted time-limit;
>>
>> > 2) that his obligations to Italy remained untouched; in other words the
>> > Fuhrer did not expect England to give up her French obligations and could
>> > for his part not abandon his Italian obligations;
>>
>> > 3) he wished also to emphasize Germany's unalterable resolution never
>> > again
>> > to enter into a conflict with Russia.
>>
>> > The Fuhrer would then be prepared to enter into agreements with Great
>> > Britain which, as he had already emphasized, would not only, on the German
>> > side, in any case safeguard the existence of the British empire, but if
>> > necessary would guarantee German assistance for the British empire,
>> > irrespective of where such assistance might be required. The Fuhrer would
>> > then also be ready to accept a reasonable limitation of armaments, in
>> > accordance with the new political situation and economic requirements.
>> > finally the Fuhrer renewed his assurance that he was not interested in
>> > western problems and that he did not for one moment consider any frontier
>> > correction in the west.
>>
>> > The western line of fortification which had cost billions, was the
>> > final frontier of the Reich in the west.
>>
>> > If the British Government would consider these suggestions, they might
>> > end in a blessing not only for Germany but also for the British Empire. If
>> > the British Government rejected the suggestions, war would be inevitable.
>> > In
>> > no circumstances, however, would such a war add to the strength of Great
>> > Britain. That this was true, the last war had amply proved.
>>
>> > The Fuhrer repeated that he was a man of great decisions to which he
>> > felt himself bound, and that this was his final proposal. Immediately
>> > after
>> > the settlement of the German-Polish question he would approach the British
>> > Government with an offer.
>>
>> > German White Book - Documents
>> > Concerning the Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> > Documents 9 through 13 (of 26)
>> > 9. Letter of the French Premier to the Fuhrer, August 26, 1939
>> > (Translation)
>> > Paris, August 29, 1939.
>>
>> > Your Excellency:
>>
>> > The French Ambassador in Berlin has brought your personal message to my
>> > knowledge.
>>
>> > At an hour when you speak of the gravest responsibility which two Heads
>> > of Government can be asked to take, namely, that of shedding the blood of
>> > two great peoples desiring only peace and work, I owe it to you personally
>> > and to our respective nations to state that the fate of peace still rests
>> > in
>> > your hands.
>> > You cannot doubt my feelings towards Germany, or the friendly feelings
>> > of France for your nation. No Frenchman has done more than I have to
>> > ensure
>> > not only peace between our two peoples, but also sincere cooperation in
>> > your
>> > own interests as well as in those of Europe and of the world.
>>
>> > Unless you are prepared to credit the French nation with a lower ideal
>> > of honor than the one with which I credit the German people, you cannot
>> > doubt that France will faithfully fulfill her obligations towards other
>> > powers which, like Poland, are, I am convinced, desirous of living at
>> > peace
>> > with Germany.
>>
>> > Both convictions are fully compatible with one another.
>>
>> > To this day there is nothing which might prevent a peaceful solution of
>> > the international crisis in a spirit of honor and dignity for all nations
>> > as
>> > long as the same will for peace prevails on all sides.
>>
>> > Together with the good will of France I proclaim that of all her
>> > allies. I personally guarantee the readiness always shown by Poland to
>> > have
>> > mutual recourse to methods of free conciliation such as can be envisaged
>> > between the Governments of two sovereign nations. With a perfectly clear
>> > conscience I can give you an assurance that among the differences which
>> > have
>> > arisen between Germany and Poland with regard to the Danzig question,
>> > there
>> > is not a single one which could not be submitted to such a procedure with
>> > a
>> > view to finding a just and peaceful solution.
>>
>> > Upon my honor I can also state that in the clear and sincere solidarity
>> > of France with Poland and her allies there is nothing that might in any
>> > way
>> > impair the peaceful disposition of my country. This solidarity has never
>> > prevented us from supporting this peaceful disposition in Poland, and it
>> > does not do so today.
>> > At so critical a moment I sincerely believe that no noble-minded person
>> > could understand how a war of destruction could be waged without a final
>> > attempt at a peaceful settlement between Germany and Poland having been
>> > undertaken. Your desire for peace could exercise its influence with full
>> > determination towards this end without detracting anything from Germany's
>> > honor. As Head of the French Government, desirous of attaining full
>> > harmony
>> > between the French and the German nation, yet bound on the other hand to
>> > Poland by ties of friendship and my pledged word, I am prepared to make
>> > every effort that an honorable man can make to bring this endeavor to a
>> > successful end.
>>
>> > Like myself you were a soldier in the last war. You know as well as I
>> > do the feelings of disgust and universal condemnation which the
>> > destruction
>> > caused by war left in the conscience of all nations, irrespective of its
>> > issue. The idea which I cherish of your great part as leader of the German
>> > nation on the road to peace towards the fulfillment of its tasks in the
>> > common effort towards civilization, prompts me to ask you for an answer to
>> > this my proposal.
>>
>> > Should French and German blood once more have to flow, just as it did
>> > twenty-five years ago, in an even longer and more murderous war, each
>> > nation
>> > will fight fully confident of its ultimate victory. Yet we can be sure
>> > that
>> > ruin and barbarity will be the most certain victors.'
>>
>> > (Signed) DALADIER
>> > __________________________________________________
>> > 10. The Fuhrer's Letter in reply to the French Premier, August 27, 1939.
>> > Berlin, August 27, 1939
>>
>> > Your Excellency:
>>
>> > I appreciate the concern you have expressed. I have always been
>> > equally conscious of the grave responsibility place upon those who must
>> > decide the fate of nations. As an ex-soldier, I know as well as you do the
>> > horrors of war. This spirit and knowledge have guided me in a sincere
>> > endeavor to remove all causes of conflict between our two nations.
>>
>> > I once told the French people quite frankly that the return of the Saar
>> > territory would be the basis for the achievement of this aim. Once that
>> > territory was returned I immediately solemnly renounced any further claims
>> > which might affect France.
>>
>> > The German people approved of my attitude. As you were able to see for
>> > yourself when you were in Germany last, the German people, conscious of
>> > the
>> > way they themselves behaved, did not and still do not entertain any
>> > animosity or still less hatred against their former brave opponents. On
>> > the
>> > contrary; once peace was definitely established along our western
>> > frontier,
>> > there cam an increasing sympathy, at any rate on the part of the German
>> > nation -- a sympathy markedly demonstrated on many occasions.
>>
>> > The construction of the great western fortifications which have cost
>> > and will still cost many billion Marks, is documentary evidence that
>> > Germany
>> > has accepted and fixed the final frontier of the Reich. In doing so, the
>> > German people renounced two provinces which once belonged to the old
>> > German
>> > Reich, were later on regained at the price of many lives, and were finally
>> > defended at the price of still more lives.
>>
>> > Your Excellency will admit that this renunciation was not merely a
>> > gesture for tactical reasons but a decision confirmed by all our
>> > subsequent
>> > measures.
>> > You cannot, Excellency, cite a single instance in which this final
>> > settlement of the German frontier in the West has ever been disputed by
>> > one
>> > line or word. I believed that by this renunciation and by this attitude
>> > every possible cause of conflict between our two nations, which might have
>> > led to a repetition of the tragic years of 1914 to 1918, had been
>> > eliminated.
>>
>> > This voluntary limitation of German claims in the West cannot however
>> > be regarded as an acceptance of the Dictate of Versailles in all other
>> > fields.
>> > Year by year I have tried earnestly to achieve the revision of at least
>> > the most impossible and most unbearable of all the conditions of this
>> > Dictate through negotiation. This proved impossible. Many enlightened men
>> > of all nations believed and were convinced that revision was bound to
>> > come.
>> > Whatever objection may be raised against my methods, whatever fault may be
>> > found with them, it cannot be overlooked or denied that I succeeded
>> > without
>> > any more bloodshed in finding solutions which were in many cases
>> > satisfactory not only for Germany.
>>
>> > By the manner in which these solutions were accomplished, statesmen of
>> > other nations were relieved of their obligation, which they often found
>> > impossible to fulfill, of having to accept responsibility for this
>> > revision
>> > before their own people.
>>
>> > One thing I fee sure Your Excellency will admit, namely, that the
>> > revision was bound to come. The Dictate of Versailles was unbearable. No
>> > Frenchman with a sense of honor and certainly not you, M. Daladier, would
>> > have acted differently in a similar position than I did. I therefore tried
>> > to remove this most insane stipulation of the Dictate of Versailles. I
>> > made
>> > an offer to the Polish Government which actually shocked the German
>> > people.
>>
>> > No one but I could have dared to come forward with such a proposal.
>> > Therefore I could only make it once. I am firmly convinced that if Poland
>> > at
>> > that time had been advised to take a sensible course instead of being
>> > incited by a wild campaign of the British press against Germany,
>> > accompanied
>> > by rumors of German mobilization, then Europe would today be able to enjoy
>> > a
>> > state of profound peace for the next twenty-five years.
>>
>> > Actually, it was the lie about German aggression that excited public
>> > opinion in Poland; the Polish Government were handicapped in making
>> > necessary and clear decisions and, above all, their judgment on the extent
>> > of Poland's possibilities was clouded by the subsequent promise of a
>> > guarantee.
>>
>> > [The guarantee England made to Poland that England would come to Poland's
>> > defense if hostilities ensued. It was, as Hitler said, "a blank cheque for
>> > the Polish government to continue its abuse and oppression of the Germans
>> > caught in that 'country' -- Poland -- that was created at Versailles.]
>>
>> > The Polish Government rejected the proposals.
>>
>> > Firmly convinced that Britain and France would now fight for Poland,
>> > Polish public opinion began to raise demands which might best be described
>> > as sheer lunacy were they not so extraordinarily dangerous. At that time
>> > unbearable terrorism se in; physical and economic oppression of the more
>> > than one and a half millions of Germans living in the territories severed
>> > from the Reich. I do not intent to speak of the atrocities which have
>> > occurred.
>>
>> > Even in Danzig, the outrages committed by the Polish authorities fully
>> > created the impression that the city was apparently hopelessly delivered
>> > up
>> > to the arbitrary action of a power that is foreign to the national
>> > character
>> > of the city and its population.
>>
>> > May I ask you, M. Daladier, how you as a Frenchman would act if, by the
>> > unfortunate ending of a bravely-fought war, one of your provinces were
>> > separated by a corridor in the possession of an alien power, and a large
>> > city -- let us say Marseilles -- were prevented from bearing allegiance to
>> > France, while Frenchmen in this territory were being persecuted, beaten,
>> > maltreated and even murdered in a bestial manner.
>>
>> > You are a Frenchman, M. Daladier, and I therefore know how you would
>> > act. I am a German, M. Daladier, and you will not doubt my sense of honor
>> > and my sense of duty which make me act in exactly the same way.
>>
>> > If you had to face a calamity such as confronts us, would you, M.
>> > Daladier, understand how Germany, for no reason at all, could use her
>> > influence to ensure that such a corridor through France should remain?
>>
>> > That the stolen territories should not be returned, and that Marseilles
>> > should be forbidden to join France?
>>
>> > I certainly cannot imagine Germany fighting you for such a cause. I,
>> > for Germany, renounced our claim to Alsace-Lorraine in order to avoid
>> > further bloodshed. Still less would we shed blood in order to maintain
>> > such
>> > an injustice as I have pictured, which would be as intolerable for you as
>> > it
>> > would be meaningless for us.
>>
>> > My feelings on everything expressed in your letter, M. Daladier, are
>> > the same as yours. Perhaps we, as ex-soldiers, should readily understand
>> > each other on many points. Yet I would ask you to appreciate also this:
>> > namely, that no nation with a sense of honor can ever give up almost two
>> > million people and see them maltreated on its own frontiers.
>>
>> > I therefore formulated a clear demand: Danzig and the Corridor must
>> > return to Germany. The Macedonian conditions prevailing along our eastern
>> > frontier must cease. I see no possibility of persuading Poland, who deems
>> > herself safe from attack by virtue of the guarantees given to her, to
>> > agree
>> > to a peaceful solution.
>>
>> > Unless we are determined under the circumstances to solve the question
>> > one way or the other, I would despair of an honorable future for my
>> > country.
>> > If fate decrees that our two peoples should fight one another once more
>> > over this question, it would be from different motives. I for my part, M.
>> > Daladier, would fight with my people for the reparation of an injustice,
>> > while the others would fight for its retention.
>>
>> > This is all the more tragic in view of the fact that many great men of
>> > your nation have long since recognized the folly of the solution found in
>> > 1919 and the impossibility of keeping it up for ever. I am fully conscious
>> > of the grave consequences which such a conflict would involve. But I think
>> > that Poland would suffer most, for whatever the issue of such a war, the
>> > Polish State of today would in any case be lost.
>>
>> > That our two peoples should now engage in another murderous war of
>> > destruction causes me as much pain as it does you, M. Daladier.
>> > Unfortunately, as stated earlier in my letter, I see no possibility open
>> > to
>> > us of influencing Poland to take a saner attitude and thus to remedy a
>> > situation which is unbearable for both the German people and the German
>> > Reich.
>>
>> > (signed) ADOLF HITLER.
>> > ________________________________________________________
>> > 11. Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Fuhrer by the
>> > British Ambassador on August 28, 1939, at 10:30 p. m.
>>
>> > 1. His Majesty's Government have received the message conveyed to them
>> > from the German Chancellor by H.M. Ambassador in Berlin and have
>> > considered
>> > it with the care which it demands.
>>
>> > They note the Chancellor's expression of his desire to make friendship
>> > the basis of the relations between Germany and the British Empire and they
>> > fully share this desire. they believe with him that if a complete and
>> > lasting understanding between the two countries could be established it
>> > would bring untold blessings to both peoples.
>>
>> > 2. The Chancellor's message deals with two groups of questions: -- those
>> > which are the matters now in dispute between Germany and Poland, and those
>> > affecting the ultimate relations of Germany and Great Britain.
>>
>> > In connection with these last, His Majesty's Government observe that
>> > the German Chancellor has indicated certain proposals which, subject to
>> > one
>> > condition, he would be prepared to make to the British Government for a
>> > general understanding. These proposals are of course stated in very
>> > general
>> > form and would require closer definition, but His Majesty's Government are
>> > fully prepared to take them, with some additions, as subjects for
>> > discussion
>> > and they would be ready, if the differences between Germany and Poland are
>> > peacefully composed, to proceed so soon as practicable to such discussion
>> > with a sincere desire to reach agreement.
>>
>> > 3. The condition which the German Chancellor lays down is that there
>> > must first be a settlement of the differences between Germany and Poland.
>> > As
>> > to that, His Majesty's Government entirely agree. Everything, however,
>> > turns upon the nature of the settlement and the method by which it is to
>> > be
>> > reached. On these points, the importance of which cannot be absent from
>> > the
>> > Chancellor's mind, his message is silent, and His Majesty's Government
>> > will
>> > be aware that His Majesty's Government have obligations to Poland by which
>> > they are bound and which they intend to honor.
>>
>> > They could not, for any advantage offered to Great Britain, acquiesce
>> > in a settlement which put in jeopardy the independence of a State to whom
>> > they have given their guarantee.
>>
>> > 4. In the opinion of His Majesty's Government a reasonable solution for
>> > the differences between Germany and Poland could and should be effected by
>> > agreement between the two countries on lines which would include the
>> > safeguarding of Poland's essential interest, and they recall that in his
>> > speech of the 28th of April last the German Chancellor recognized the
>> > importance of these interests to Poland.
>>
>> > But as was stated by the Prime Minister in his letter to the German
>> > Chancellor of the 22nd of August, His Majesty's Government consider it
>> > essential for the success of the discussions which would precede the
>> > agreement that it should be understood before hand that any settlement
>> > arrived at would be guaranteed by other Powers. His Majesty's Government
>> > would be ready if desired to make their contribution to the effective
>> > operation of such a guarantee.
>>
>> > In view of His Majesty's Government it follows that the next step should
>> > be the initiation of direct discussions between the German and Polish
>> > Governments on a basis which would include the principles stated above,
>> > namely the safeguarding of Poland's essential interests and the securing
>> > of
>> > the settlement by an international guarantee.
>>
>> > They have already received a definite assurance from the Polish
>> > Government that they are prepared to enter into discussions on this basis,
>> > and His Majesty's Government hope the German government would for their
>> > part
>> > also be willing to agree to this course.
>>
>> > If, as His Majesty's government hope, such discussion let to agreement
>> > the way would be open to the negotiation of that wider and more complete
>> > understanding between Great Britain and Germany which both countries
>> > desire.
>>
>> > 5. His Majesty's Government agree with the German Chancellor that one of
>> > the principal dangers in the German-Polish situation arises from the
>> > report
>> > concerning the treatment of minorities. The present state of tension, with
>> > its concomitant frontier incidents, reports of maltreatment and
>> > inflammatory
>> > propaganda, is a constant danger to peace.
>>
>> > It is manifestly a matter of the utmost urgency that all incidents of
>> > the kind should be promptly and rigidly suppressed and that unverified
>> > reports should not be allowed to circulate, in order that time may be
>> > afforded, without provocation on either side, for a full examination of
>> > the
>> > possibilities of settlement. His Majesty's Government are confident that
>> > both governments concerned are fully alive to these considerations.
>>
>> > 6. His Majesty's Government have said enough to make their own attitude
>> > plain in the particular matters at issue between Germany and Poland. They
>> > trust that the German Chancellor will not think that, because His
>> > Majesty's
>> > Government are scrupulous concerning their obligations to Poland, they are
>> > not anxious to use all their influence to assist the achievement of a
>> > solution which may comment itself both to Germany and to Poland.
>>
>> > That such a settlement should be achieved seems to His Majesty's
>> > Government essential, not only for reasons directly arising in regard to
>> > the
>> > settlement itself, but also because of the wider considerations of which
>> > the
>> > German Chancellor has spoken with such conviction.
>>
>> > 7. It is unnecessary in the present reply to stress the advantage of a
>> > peaceful settlement over a decision to settle the questions at issue by
>> > force of arms. The results of a decision to use force have been clearly
>> > set
>> > out in the Prime Minister's letter to the Chancellor of the 22nd of
>> > August,
>> > and His Majesty's Government do not doubt that they are as fully
>> > recognized
>> > by the Chancellor as by themselves.
>>
>> > On the other hand His Majesty's government, noting with interest the
>> > German Chancellor's reference in the message now under consideration to a
>> > limitation of armaments, believe that, if a peaceful settlement can be
>> > obtained, the assistance of the world could confidently be anticipated for
>> > practical measures to enable the transition from preparation for war to
>> > the
>> > normal activities of peaceful trade to be safely and smoothly effected.
>>
>> > 8. A just settlement of these questions between Germany and Poland may
>> > open the way to world peace. Failure to reach it would ruin the hopes of
>> > better understanding between Germany and Great Britain, would bring the
>> > two
>> > countries into conflict, and might well plunge the whole world into war.
>> > Such an outcome would be a calamity without parallel in history.
>> > ___________________________________________________________
>> > l2. The Fuhrer's Reply to the British Government handed to the British
>> > Ambassador on August 29, 1939, at 6:45 p. m.
>> > (Translation)
>> > August 29, 1939.
>>
>> > The British Ambassador in Berlin has informed the British government of
>> > certain suggestions which I felt it incumbent upon me to put forward, in
>> > order:
>> > 1. to express once more the desire of the German Government for sincere
>> > Anglo-German understanding, cooperation and friendship;
>>
>> > 2. to leave no room for doubt that such an understanding cannot be
>> > purchased at the expense of Germany's renunciation of her vital interests
>> > or
>> > even by the sacrifice of claims based just as much on general human rights
>> > as on the national dignity and honor of our nation.
>>
>> > It was with satisfaction that the German Government learned from the
>> > written reply of the British government and the verbal declarations of the
>> > British Ambassador, that the British government for their part also
>> > prepared
>> > to improve Anglo-German relations and to develop and to foster these in
>> > the
>> > spirit of the German suggestions.
>>
>> > The British government are likewise convinced that the removal of the
>> > tension between Germany and Poland, which has become intolerable, is
>> > indispensable if this hope is to be realized.
>>
>> > Since the autumn of 1938 and for the last time in March 1939, verbal
>> > and written proposals have been submitted to the Polish Government, which
>> > in
>> > consideration of the friendship then existing between Germany and Poland,
>> > might have let to a settlement of the questions under dispute which would
>> > have been acceptable to both parties.
>>
>> > The British government are aware that the Polish government saw fit to
>> > reject these proposals finally in March of this year. At the same time the
>> > Polish government made their rejection a pretext or an occasion for the
>> > adoption of military measures which have since then been continued on an
>> > ever-increasing scale. Poland had, in fact, mobilized as early as the
>> > middle
>> > of the month.
>>
>> > In connection with the mobilization, numerous incidents took place in
>> > the Free City of Danzig at the instigation of the Polish authorities, and
>> > demands of a more or less threatening character amounting to an ultimatum
>> > were addressed to the Free city of Danzig. The closing of the frontier,
>> > which was at first in the nature of a custom measure, was afterwards
>> > carried
>> > out on military lines and was extended to affect traffic with the object
>> > of
>> > bringing about the political disintegration and the economic ruin of the
>> > German community.
>>
>> > Furthermore, the large group of Germans living in Poland was subjected
>> > to atrocious and barbarous ill treatment and to other forms of persecution
>> > which resulted in some cases in the death by violence of many Germans
>> > domiciled there or in their deportation under the most cruel
>> > circumstances.
>> > Such a situation is intolerable for a Great Power and has now forced
>> > Germany after months of inactive observation to undertake the necessary
>> > steps for the protection of her rightful interests. The German Government
>> > can only most seriously assure the British Government that that state of
>> > affairs has now been reached for which continued acquiescence or even
>> > inactive observation is no longer possible.
>>
>> > The demands of the German government imply a revision of the Treaty of
>> > Versailles in this area, a fact which was recognized as necessary from the
>> > very outset; they constitute the return of Danzig and the Polish Corridor
>> > to
>> > Germany and the safeguarding of the German minorities domiciled in those
>> > territories remaining in Polish possession.
>>
>> > the Reich Government note with satisfaction that the British Government
>> > are also convinced on principle that some solution must be found for the
>> > state of affairs which has now developed. They further consider they may
>> > assume that the British Government entertain no doubt on the fact that
>> > this
>> > is a state of affairs which can no longer be remedied in a matter of days
>> > or
>> > even weeks but for which perhaps only a few hours yet remain. For in view
>> > of
>> > the disorganized state of Poland we must at any moment be prepared for the
>> > possibility of events occurring which Germany could not possibly tolerate.
>>
>> > If the British Government still believe that these grave differences
>> > can be solved by direct negotiations, the Reich Government on their part
>> > regret at the outset that they are unable to share such an opinion. They
>> > have already tried to open up a way for peaceful negotiations of this
>> > nature, without meeting with the support of the Polish government, and
>> > only
>> > seeing their efforts rejected by the abrupt initiation of measures of a
>> > military character in accordance with the general development indicated
>> > above.
>>
>> > There are two factors which the British Government consider important:
>> > 1. to remove most speedily the imminent danger of a conflagration by means
>> > of direct negotiations, and
>>
>> > 2. to give the necessary economic and political safeguards by means of
>> > international guarantees for the future existence of the remaining Polish
>> > State.
>>
>> > Despite their skeptical judgment of the prospects of such direct
>> > negotiations, the Reich Government are nevertheless prepared to accept the
>> > English proposal, and to enter into direct discussions. They do so solely
>> > because -- as already emphasized -- the written communication from the
>> > British Government, which they have received, gives them the impression
>> > that
>> > the latter also desire a friendly agreement along the lines indicated to
>> > their Ambassador, Sir Nevile Henderson.
>>
>> > The German Government desire in this way to give to the British
>> > Government and to the British people a proof of the sincerity of the
>> > German
>> > intention of arriving at a state of permanent friendship with Great
>> > Britain.
>>
>> > The Reich Government nevertheless feel bound to point out to the
>> > British Government that in the case of a reorganization of the territorial
>> > condition in Poland, the Reich Government are no longer in a position to
>> > take upon themselves any guarantees, or to participate in any guarantees,
>> > without the cooperation of the U.S.S.R.
>>
>> > The Reich Government in their proposals moreover never had the
>> > intentions of attacking vital Polish interests or of questioning the
>> > existence of an independent Polish state. Under these conditions, the
>> > Reich
>> > Government therefore agree to accept the proposed intermediation of the
>> > British Government to send to Berlin a Polish representative invested with
>> > plenipotentiary powers. They expect his arrival on Wednesday, August 30,
>> > 1939.
>>
>> > The Reich Government will immediately draft the proposals for a
>> > solution acceptable to them and, if possible, will make such proposals
>> > also
>> > available for the British government before the Polish negotiator arrives.
>> > ____________________________________________________________
>> > 13. Telephone Message from the German Charge d'Affairs in Warsaw to the
>> > German Foreign Office on August 30, 1939, at 5:30 p. m.
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > Notices ordering a general mobilization have been posted in Poland for
>> > one hour. The first day of mobilization is August 31st; everybody in
>> > possession of a white mobilization card must report at once.
>>
>> > German White Book - Documents
>> > Concerning the Last Phase of the German-Polish Crisis
>> > Documents 14 through 16 (of 26)
>>
>> > 14. Memorandum from the British Government handed to the Reich Minister
>> > for
>> > Foreign Affairs by the British Ambassador on August 30, 1939, at midnight.
>>
>> > 1. His Majesty's Government appreciate the friendly reference in the
>> > declaration contained in the reply of the German Government to the
>> > latter's
>> > desire for an Anglo-German understanding and to their statement of the
>> > influence which this consideration has exercised upon their policy.
>>
>> > 2. His Majesty's Government repeat that they reciprocate the German
>> > government's desire for an improvement in relations, but it will be
>> > recognized that they could not sacrifice the interests of friends in order
>> > to obtain that improvement. They fully understand that the German
>> > Government
>> > cannot sacrifice Germany's vital interests, but the Polish government are
>> > in
>> > the same position, and His Majesty's Government believe that the vital
>> > interests of the two countries are not incompatible.
>>
>> > 3. His Majesty's government note that the German Government accept
>> > the British proposal and are prepared to enter into direct discussions
>> > with
>> > the Polish Government.
>>
>> > 4. His Majesty's Government understand that the German government
>> > accept in principle the condition that any settlement should be made
>> > subject
>> > to an international guarantee. the question of who shall participate in
>> > this
>> > guarantee will have to be discussed further, and His Majesty's Government
>> > hope that to avoid loss of time the German Government will take immediate
>> > steps to obtain the assent of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
>> > whose
>> > participation in the guarantee His Majesty's Government have always
>> > assumed.
>>
>> > 5. His Majesty's Government also note that the German Government
>> > accept the position of the British government as to Poland's vital
>> > interests
>> > and independence.
>>
>> > 6. His Majesty's government must make an express reservation in
>> > regard to the statement of particular demands put forward by the German
>> > Government in an earlier passage in their reply. They understand that the
>> > German Government are drawing up proposals for a solution. No doubt these
>> > proposals will be fully examined during the discussions. It can then be
>> > determined how far they are compatible with the essential conditions which
>> > His Majesty's Government have stated and which the German Government have
>> > expressed their willingness to accept.
>>
>> > 7. His Majesty's government are at once informing the Polish
>> > Government of the German Government's reply. The method of contact and the
>> > arrangements for discussions must obviously be agreed with all urgency
>> > between the German government and the Polish government, but in His
>> > Majesty's Government's view it would be impracticable to establish contact
>> > so early as today.
>>
>> > 8. His Majesty's Government fully recognize the need for speed in the
>> > initiation of discussions and they share the apprehensions of the
>> > Chancellor
>> > arising from the proximity of two mobilized armies standing face to fact.
>> > They would accordingly most strongly urge that both parties should
>> > undertake
>> > that during negotiations no aggressive military movements will take place.
>>
>> > His Majesty's Government feel confident that they could obtain such an
>> > undertaking from the Polish Government, if the German Government would
>> > give
>> > similar assurances.
>>
>> > 9. Further His Majesty's Government would suggest that a temporary
>> > modus vivendi might be arranged for Danzig, which might prevent the
>> > occurrence of incidents tending to render German-Polish relations more
>> > difficult.
>> > ____________________________________________________
>> > 15. Official German Statement published on August 31, 1939, at 9 p. m.
>> > containing the Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish
>> > Corridor Problem, as well as of the question concerning the German and
>> > Polish Minorities.
>> > (Translation)
>>
>> > In a note dated August 28, 1939, addressed to the German government,
>> > the British Government declared themselves prepared to offer their
>> > services
>> > as intermediaries in arranging direct negotiations between Germany and
>> > Poland for the settlement of the problems under dispute. In this note they
>> > left no room for doubt that in view of the continued incidents and the
>> > general state of tension throughout Europe they also were aware of the
>> > urgency of such action.
>>
>> > In spite of their skepticism regarding the willingness of the Polish
>> > Government to reach any agreement, the German government, in a reply dated
>> > August 29, 1939, declared themselves prepared in the interests of peace to
>> > accept British intermediation or suggestions.
>>
>> > Taking into account all the circumstances prevailing at the moment they
>> > considered it necessary to point out in their reply that, if the danger of
>> > catastrophe is to be avoided at all, quick and immediate action is
>> > indispensable.
>>
>> > The German Government have therefore declared themselves willing to
>> > receive a delegate appointed by the Polish government by the evening of
>> > August 30, 1939, provided that this delegate should be invested with full
>> > power not only to take part in discussions but to negotiate and to take a
>> > final decision.
>>
>> > The German government have further expressed the hope that they would
>> > be able to submit to the British government the gist of the proposed
>> > agreement before the arrival of the Polish delegate in Berlin.
>>
>> > Instead of a declaration regarding the arrival of an authorized Polish
>> > representative the German government, in reply to their readiness to
>> > negotiate, received firstly the news of the Polish mobilization, and it
>> > was
>> > only towards midnight on August 30, 1939, that they received the assurance
>> > by Britain, couched in more general terms, that she would use her
>> > influence
>> > to arrange for the opening of negotiations.
>>
>> > Owing to the non-arrival of the Polish delegate who was expected by the
>> > Reich Government, the primary condition for informing the British
>> > Government, who had themselves recommended direct negotiations between
>> > Germany and Poland, of the standpoint taken by the Reich as to the basis
>> > for
>> > such negotiations, no longer existed.
>>
>> > Nevertheless, Herr von Ribbentrop, the Reich Minister for Foreign
>> > Affairs, acquainted the British Ambassador, when the latter handed over
>> > the
>> > last British note, with the exact wording of the German proposals as
>> > prepared for the expected arrival of the Polish plenipotentiary.
>>
>> > Under these circumstances the German Government considered that they
>> > had every right to expect that, at least subsequently to this, the
>> > nomination of a Polish delegate would immediately take place. It was
>> > clearly
>> > too much to expect of the German Government that they should continue not
>> > only to reiterate their willingness to enter upon such negotiations, but
>> > even to sit and wait and allow themselves to be put off by the Polish side
>> > with feeble subterfuges and empty declarations.
>>
>> > In the meantime a demarche by the Polish Ambassador has again shown
>> > that not even he is authorized to enter upon any discussion whatsoever,
>> > much
>> > less to negotiate.
>>
>> > Thus the Fuhrer and the German Government have now waited for two days
>> > in vain for the arrival of an authorized Polish delegate.
>>
>> > Under these circumstances the German Government cannot but regard their
>> > proposals as having been once more virtually rejected, although they are
>> > of
>> > the opinion that in the form in which they were also communicated to the
>> > British Government, they were formulated in a spirit of more than goodwill
>> > and fairness ann could have been accepted.
>>
>> > The Government of the Reich consider it appropriate to inform the
>> > public of the proposed basis for negotiation as communicated to the
>> > British
>> > Ambassador by Herr von Ribbentrop, the Reich Minister for Foreign Affairs.
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > Proposal for a settlement of the Danzig and the Polish Corridor Problem as
>> > well as of the question concerning the German and Polish Minorities.
>>
>> > The situation between the German Reich and Poland is at the present
>> > time such that any further incident may lead to an outbreak of hostilities
>> > between the military forces of the two countries, which have already taken
>> > up their position on the respective side of the frontier.
>>
>> > Any peaceful solution of the problem must be of such a nature that the
>> > events which originally brought about this state of affairs cannot be
>> > repeated on the next occasion thus causing a state of tension not only in
>> > Eastern Europe but also elsewhere.
>>
>> > The causes of this development are to be found in:
>>
>> > (1) the intolerable demarcation of the frontiers as dictated in the Treaty
>> > of Versailles.
>>
>> > (2.) the intolerable treatment of the minority in the territories cut off
>> > from the Reich.
>>
>> > In putting forward these proposals, the Reich government are attempting
>> > to find a final solution putting an end to the intolerable situation
>> > arising
>> > from the present demarcation of frontiers, securing to both parties their
>> > vital lines of communication, eliminating as far as possible the problem
>> > of
>> > the minorities and, in so far as this should prove impossible, rendering
>> > the
>> > fate of the minorities bearable by effectively guaranteeing their rights.
>>
>> > The Reich Government feel convinced that it is indispensable that
>> > economic and personal damage inflicted since 1918 should be investigated,
>> > and full compensation made therefore. Of course, the Reich Government
>> > regard
>> > this obligation as binding upon both parties.
>>
>> > The above considerations give rise to the following concrete proposals:
>>
>> > (1) By reason of its purely German character and the unanimous will
>> > of its population, the Free City of Danzig shall be returned forthwith to
>> > the German Reich.
>>
>> > (2) The territory known as the Polish Corridor, that is to say, the
>> > territory bounded by the Baltic Sea and a line running from Marienwerder
>> > to
>> > Graudenz, Kulm, Bromberg, (including these towns), and then in a westerly
>> > direction towards Schonlanke, shall itself decide whether it shall become
>> > part of the German Reich or remain with Poland.
>>
>> > (3) For that purpose, a plebiscite shall be held in this territory.
>> > All Germans who were domiciled in this area on the first of January 1918
>> > or
>> > who were born there on or before that day, also all Poles, Cassubians,
>> > etc.
>> > who were domiciled in this area on that day or who were born there on or
>> > before the above-mentioned date, shall be entitled to vote. Germans who
>> > have
>> > been expelled from this territory shall return for the purpose of
>> > registering their votes.
>>
>> > In order to ensure an impartial plebiscite and to guarantee that the
>> > necessary and extensive preparations for the plebiscite shall be carried
>> > out
>> > correctly, an International Commission like the one formed in connection
>> > with the Saar plebiscite, and consisting of members appointed by the four
>> > Great Powers, Italy, the U.S.S.R., France and Great Britain, shall be
>> > formed
>> > immediately, and placed in charge of this territory.
>>
>> > This commission shall exercise sovereign rights throughout the
>> > territory. To that end, the territory shall be evacuated by the Polish
>> > military forces, by the Polish police and by the Polish authorities within
>> > the shortest possible time to be agreed upon.
>>
>> > (4) The Polish port of Gdynia to the extent of the Polish settlement
>> > is not included in this area but, as a matter of principle, is recognized
>> > as
>> > Polish territory.
>> > The details of the boundaries of this Polish port shall be decided on
>> > by Germany and Poland, and if necessary established by an International
>> > Court of Arbitration.
>>
>> > (5) In order to allow for ample time for the necessary and extensive
>> > preparations for the carrying out of an impartial plebiscite this
>> > plebiscite
>> > shall not take place before a period of twelve months has elapsed.
>>
>> > (6) In order that during that period, Germany's lines of communication
>> > with East Prussia and Poland's access to the sea may be unrestrictedly
>> > ensured, certain roads and railway lines shall be determined in order to
>> > facilitate unobstructed transit. In this connection only such taxes may be
>> > levied as are necessary for the upkeep of the lines of communication and
>> > for
>> > the carrying out of transport.
>>
>> > (7) The allocation of this territory shall be decided on by the
>> > absolute majority of the votes cast.
>>
>> > (8) In order to secure, after the plebiscite (irrespective of the
>> > result thereof), Germany's unrestricted communication with the province of
>> > Danzig -- East Prussia, and Poland's access to the sea, Germany shall,
>> > should the territory be returned to Poland as a result of the plebiscite,
>> > be
>> > given an exterritorial traffic zone running, from say, Butow to Danzig or
>> > Dirschau, for the purpose of building a Reich Motor Road (Reichsautobahn)
>> > and also a four-track railway line.
>>
>> > The construction of the motor road and of the railway shall be carried
>> > out in such a manner that Polish lines of communication are not affected
>> > thereby, i.e. they are to be overbridged or underbridged. This zone shall
>> > be
>> > one kilometer in width and shall be German territory.
>>
>> > Should the result of the plebiscite be in favor of Germany, Poland
>> > shall have the same rights as Germany would have had, to build an
>> > exterritorial road and railway connection in order to secure her free and
>> > unrestricted access to her port of Gdynia.
>>
>> > (9) In the event of the Polish Corridor being returned to the Reich,
>> > the latter declares herself prepared to arrange with Poland for an
>> > exchange
>> > of population to the extent to which this could be carried out according
>> > to
>> > the conditions in the Corridor.
>>
>> > (10) Any special rights claimed by Poland within the port of Danzig
>> > shall, on the basis of parity, be negotiated in exchange of equal rights
>> > for
>> > Germany at the Port of Gdynia.
>>
>> > (11) In order to avoid any sense of menace or danger on either side,
>> > Danzig and Gdynia henceforth shall have a purely commercial character,
>> > i.e.
>> > neither of these places shall be provided with means of military defence
>> > or
>> > fortifications.
>>
>> > (12) The Peninsula of Hela which according to the result of the
>> > plebiscite would be allocated either to Poland or to Germany, shall also
>> > be
>> > demilitarized in any case.
>>
>> > (13) The Reich Government having most serious complaints to make about
>> > the treatment of the minority by the Poles, the Polish Government on the
>> > other hand considering themselves entitled to raise complaints against
>> > Germany, both parties agree to submit these complaints to an International
>> > Commission of Investigation charged to investigate into all complaints and
>> > economic and personal damage, as well as other acts of terrorism.
>>
>> > Germany and Poland bind themselves to indemnify the minorities on
>> > either side for any economic damages and other wrongs inflicted upon them
>> > since 1918; and or to revoke all expropriations or otherwise to completely
>> > indemnify the respective person or persons for these and other
>> > encroachments
>> > upon economic life.
>>
>> > (14) In order to free the Germans remaining in Poland, as well as the
>> > Poles remaining in Germany, from the feeling of being deprived of the
>> > benefits of International Law, and above all to afford them the certainty
>> > of
>> > their not being made to take part in actions and in furnishing services of
>> > a
>> > kind not compatible with their national convictions, Germany and Poland
>> > mutually agree to safeguard the rights of their respective minorities by
>> > most comprehensive and binding agreements for the purpose of warranting
>> > these minorities the preservation, free development and cultivation of
>> > their
>> > national customs, habits and traditions, to grant them in particular and
>> > for
>> > that purpose the form of organization considered necessary by them. Both
>> > parties undertake not to draft
>>
>> ...
>>
>> download full message


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:10 EDT 2008
Article: 1937224 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:10:13 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> People who write books, in this case a memoir, tend to do it in the
>> language they know best,
>
>But Hoess' memoirs *were* written in German.  Is there no
>limit to your ignorance?

His "confession", however, was written in English by his interrogators
and he was forced to sign it based on threats to his wife and
children.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:10 EDT 2008
Article: 1937225 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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References: <8ffca420-23ba-4a32-9b16-e076f7f78159@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>  <58f902bf-350d-4b4b-b8cb-b9993dbee037@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>  <275ob4hr4s0e22rljjs3s44l0me5qh862m@4ax.com>     
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:31:38 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>  
>>People who write books, in this case a memoir, tend to do it in the
>>language they know best, which in the case of H�ss is very unlikely to
>>have been English.
>
>And, in fact, it wasn't.  His memoirs were written in German.
>
>But then, you knew that, right?

Yes, which makes it all the more curious that his "confession" was
written in a language that he didn't understand. The "confession" was
written in a language that his guards understood. 

>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Wed Sep  3 18:26:11 EDT 2008
Article: 1937226 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 19:34:50 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>>> > Exactly WRONG. Hoess knew English.
>
>>>> Because you say so, sara dear?
>>>> I don't suppose you might be able to provide anything like independant proof 
>>>> to support your assertion?
>
>>>Absolutely. Hoess said so himself.
>
>>Where did he say so? 
>
>http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html
>
>Col. John Harlan Amen examines Hoess on the stand regarding a written
>statement he had made:
>
>  
>
>  
>
>COL. AMEN: I ask that the witness be shown Documents D-745 (a-b),
>                   D-746 (a-b),' D-747, D-748, D-749 (b), and D-750,
>                   one of them being a statement of this witness. 
>
>[The documents were submitted to the witness.]
>
>                  Witness, you made the statement, D-749 (b), which
>                  has been handed to you? 
>
>HOESS: Yes. 
>
>  
>
>COL. AMEN:   "I understand English as it
>                  is written above. The above statements are true;
>                  this declaration is made by me voluntarily and
>                  without compulsion; after reading over the statement
>                  I have signed and executed the same at Nuremberg,
>                  Germany, on the fifth day of April 1946." 

The millions expelled from Czechoslovakia were likewise forced to sign
statements that they were leaving voluntarily. If they refused, the
family was immediately murdered by the heroic Czechs.

Your COL. AMEN statement is not worth the ink used to create it.

>
>                  Now I ask you, Witness, is everything which I have
>                  read to you true to your own knowledge? 
>
>HOESS: Yes. 
>
>  
>
>  
>
>I'll await your apologies to those you've accused of lying about this.

>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1937604 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 19:13:46 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:l35rb4l5gnmgiqkrpgtc8jf48iuc5cb2jt@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:25:29 -0500, Sara Salzman
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>In article ,
>>> "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 12:15:22 -0400
>>>> Johannes von Ebersdorf  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:59:59 -0400, "127.0.0.1" 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > >On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> > >Philip Mathews  wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > >> On Aug 31, 8:47__pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>>>> > >> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 17:40:48 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> > >> >
>>>> > >> > Philip Mathews  wrote:
>>>> > >> > > > Top post: If the big bad Nazis were such liars about the
>>>> > >> > > > *innocent* Jews' bad behaviour in Germany, why are you so
>>>> > >> > > > willing to accept his *presumed* diary entires as the truth?
>>>> > >> >
>>>> > >> > > People don't lie in their diaries stupid. And hundreds of Nazis
>>>> > >> > > didn't lie about what they did.
>>>> > >> >
>>>> > >> > The Nazis lied will under torture a la Rudolph Hoess.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> He didn't lie, and his testimony is extensive, over a year and a
>>>> > >> half, was not subject to torture, most of which is to be found in
>>>> > >> a 200 page memoir he wrote.
>>>> > >
>>>> > >Btw, who wrote his memoirs? Hoess didn't speak or write English.
>>>> >
>>>> > His confession was apparently in English, even though the man didn't
>>>> > know any. The document was simply prepared for him and he was forced
>>>> > to sign it or risk harm coming to his wife and children.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>>Exactly WRONG. Hoess knew English.
>>
>> If he knew any English, he kept the fact well hidden. There is simply
>> no evidence that he knew any English,
>
>C'mon Johannes. That's a bit unfair. Both Gourd and Salzman said Hoess spoke 
>English. That's the only proof needed, yanno ;-)

Proof by assertion is the basic approach of Gordie.

>
>>and even if he did, he wouldn't
>> likely write something like a confession in a foreign language.
>>
>> We are obviously talking about an allied fabrication that he was
>> required to sign.
>>
>>> Just because an illiterate like you
>>>doesn't know more than one language doesn't mean that others aren't
>>>bilingual. 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:35 EDT 2008
Article: 1937606 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:19:03 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 19:00:16 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>"Heinrich"  wrote in message 
>>>news:6i47g3FosvnpU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>>The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government 
>>>>Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes 
>>>>Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a 
>>>>YouTube video urinating on the site.
>>>>
>>>>The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>>>
>>>I would suggest the reason these Greeks pissed on the memorial is entirely 
>>>due to their having received such education.
>> 
>> 
>> Even in Germany, young people are increasingly just walking away from
>> the holocaust propagandists and ditching the classes where this
>> indoctrination is laid on.
>> 
>> The holocaust� memorial in Berlin was also been vandalized by
>> spray-bomb artists. That had to be expected when the authorities
>> decided to deface the downtown with such crap. They really ought to
>> remove the decaying Soviet "tank memorials" and remove statues of
>> Soviet soldiers affectionately known by the locals as the "unknown
>> rapist" and the "unknown looter".
>> 
>
>Some disrespectful guys have found another function to the big stones
>
>
>Berlin Holocaust Memorial Used as Toilet
>
>Berlin's Holocaust Memorial has attracted millions of visitors since it was inaugurated in 
>May 2005. However, some of these visitors have shown little respect for the memorial -- 
>and have used it as a public toilet.

It is the ideal object on which to piss.

>
>http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,462801,00.html


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:35 EDT 2008
Article: 1937612 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL were correct was Re: A Zionist Smear: ADL Attacks Peace  Conference
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: <7u80c413v2ao9jn6n735ejinsdl6j0h406@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 22:08:33 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"The_Endeavor"  wrote in message 
>news:MPG.232a72a96ab910119897ae@nntp.motzarella.org...
>> In article ,
>> benjisere@yourinvitation.com says...
>>>
>>> "The_Endeavor"  wrote in message
>>> news:MPG.232a62b1e2b377369897a7@nntp.motzarella.org...
>>> > In article ,
>>> > benjisere@yourinvitation.com says...
>>> >>
>>> >> "The_Endeavor"  wrote in message
>>> >> news:MPG.23293961d4befb4f9897a3@nntp.motzarella.org...
>>> >> > In article ,
>>> >> > benjisere@yourinvitation.com says...
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> "The_Endeavor"  wrote in message
>>> >> >> news:MPG.23280fab564799b3989794@nntp.motzarella.org...
>>> >> >> In article <5b228ac4-7499-4eb1-abb0-
>>> >> >> fdefcff7e6db@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, 
>>> >> >> last_permutation@yahoo.com
>>> >> >> says...
>>> >> >> > On Sep 2, 7:34 am, The_Endeavor 
>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >> > > In article >> >> >> > > @m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, last_permutat...@yahoo.com 
>>> >> >> > > says...
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > On Sep 1, 12:47 pm, The_Endeavor >> >> >> > > >  >
>>> >> >> > > > wrote:
>>> >> >> > > > > In article <2381315d-45f4-4185-9462-
>>> >> >> > > > > 5c8199b19...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
>>> >> >> > > > > last_permutat...@yahoo.com
>>> >> >> > > > > says...
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > > > On Sep 1, 5:11 am, The_Endeavor 
>>> >> >> > > > > > >> >> >> > > > > >  >
>>> >> >> > > > > > wrote:
>>> >> >> > > > > > > After reading this line, I am sure that the ADL were
>>> >> >> > > > > > > correct.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > > > Do explain. The ADL actually does a swell job of 
>>> >> >> > > > > > cultivating
>>> >> >> > > > > > hatred.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > The ADL
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > attack against the Baltimore peace conference is
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > understandable,
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > because Zionists fear the growing unity and sense of
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > common
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > purpose by
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > people of diverse political and religious views who
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > understand
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > the
>>> >> >> > > > > > > > Jewish-Zionist agenda and what it means for humanity
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > > > The statement is dead on the mark, ZioTurd. Face it 
>>> >> >> > > > > > ZioTurd,
>>> >> >> > > > > > the
>>> >> >> > > > > > entire
>>> >> >> > > > > > world hates you, and polls prove it time and again. 
>>> >> >> > > > > > Better
>>> >> >> > > > > > start
>>> >> >> > > > > > behaving,
>>> >> >> > > > > > yes?
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > > The world does not hate it. Unfortunately a few people 
>>> >> >> > > > > dislike
>>> >> >> > > > > Jews
>>> >> >> > > > > with
>>> >> >> > > > > a passion. That is what I hope here to correct.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > Then be nice and stop defending criminals.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > > Some very interesting quotes from Zionist Jews on this page:
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > >http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/index.cfm
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > Reject hate, embrace love. Bring out the best in Islam by 
>>> >> >> > > showing
>>> >> >> > > your
>>> >> >> > > compassion, gratitude and forgiveness. Make the holy land truly
>>> >> >> > > holy
>>> >> >> > > by
>>> >> >> > > giving Israel and the Jewish people the respect they deserve in
>>> >> >> > > their
>>> >> >> > > tiny little country. This is not a crisis over land. It is a
>>> >> >> > > crisis
>>> >> >> > > of
>>> >> >> > > the soul; a crisis in our faith, judgment and self confidence.
>>> >> >> > > Israel
>>> >> >> > > should not be regarded as an enemy, but as a blessing to our
>>> >> >> > > neighborhood. We need not fear peace, but embrace it.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > http://www.arabsforisrael.com/
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > You've GOT to be kidding!  LOL!!   This site stinks of Zionist
>>> >> >> > turdery
>>> >> >> > to
>>> >> >> > high heaven.   Do  you insects ever stop with the lies and
>>> >> >> > deception?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >Do you really think that all Muslims are terrorist and creatures 
>>> >> >> >of
>>> >> >> >hate?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The yids most certainly do.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Rubbish the problem is the
>>> >> >
>>> >> > http://www.freemuslims.org/issues/terrorism.php
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The Free Muslims Coalition believes that there can NEVER be a
>>> >> > justification for terrorism.
>>> >>
>>> >> They don't agree with the yids in that case.
>>> >>
>>> >> The yids use terrorism on a regular basis.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Well it does not matter for the sake of this discussion what they think
>>> > about this, what I am saying is that not all Muslims are terrorist and
>>> > creatures of hate?
>>>
>>> It's only a small minority of Muslims who are so inclined, rearender.
>>
>> I suggest that it is the majority. At work with me is a Muslim, he
>> strongly disapproves of terrorism.
>
>Learn to read dickhead. I said a small minority are inclined toward 
>terrorism.
>>
>>> Unlike
>>> the jew cunts in Ersatz israel.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Agreed few Jews agree with terrorism.
>
>Christ, you're a fucking idiot.
>
>Ersatz israel was created on terrorism.

A whole series of their major politicians were terrorists that would
have been hanged or imprisoned anywhere else. The Zionist state is
simply bad news.

>
>
>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:36 EDT 2008
Article: 1937613 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: <7190c4hofg0pq2463cb7cdtcntiq7r4ean@4ax.com>
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 00:43:34 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:c3f0d35a-b42a-4dc6-8496-c4b7f6b364ff@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 2, 12:13 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>> The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government
>> Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes
>> Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a
>> YouTube video urinating on the site.
>>
>> The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>>
>> "Greek obligations to the European Union... require your government to
>> promptly arrest the perpetrators of this obscenity, apologize for this
>> offense to the Jewish people, reinforce security measures to defend
>> community institutions and strenuously embark on a Holocaust educational
>> campaign for Greek youth," the Center's Director for International
>> Relations, Dr. Shimon Samuels, wrote in a letter to the Greek Justice
>> Minister Sotirios Hatzigakis.
>>
>> "An inadequate response to this outrage will be construed as an 
>> endorsement
>> for anti-Semitism," the letter concluded
>
>
>
>>Personally, I think making a big thing out of this is a mistake.
>
>Of course it is, but when have the Jews ever missed an opportunity to have a 
>major whine? 

The technique is not limited to Greece. Berliners piss on their new
holocaust� memorial also. It was predicted before it was even built.

>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1937614 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: greek urinate on holocaust memorial
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:43:06 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 5:43 pm, "Truth Will Out" 
>wrote:
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:c3f0d35a-b42a-4dc6-8496-c4b7f6b364ff@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 2, 12:13 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center urged the Greek government
>> > Monday to "strenuously" respond to the recent desecration of the Rhodes
>> > Holocaust Memorial by a group of local teenagers, who were shown on a
>> > YouTube video urinating on the site.
>>
>> > The center demanded a Holocaust educational campaign for Greek youth.
>>
>> > "Greek obligations to the European Union... require your government to
>> > promptly arrest the perpetrators of this obscenity, apologize for this
>> > offense to the Jewish people, reinforce security measures to defend
>> > community institutions and strenuously embark on a Holocaust educational
>> > campaign for Greek youth," the Center's Director for International
>> > Relations, Dr. Shimon Samuels, wrote in a letter to the Greek Justice
>> > Minister Sotirios Hatzigakis.
>>
>> > "An inadequate response to this outrage will be construed as an
>> > endorsement
>> > for anti-Semitism," the letter concluded
>> >Personally, I think making a big thing out of this is a mistake.
>>
>> Of course it is, but when have the Jews ever missed an opportunity to have a
>> major whine?
>   When have Nazis missed an opportunity to whine about Jews?
>
>   You are a Nazi.

There haven't been any Nazis for more than half a century, ejaculito.

>
>   As a Nazi, you are, above all else, a craven coward.
>
>   You are afraid to compete with others as equals because you know
>you can not measure up.
>
>   You are afraid of your own inadequacy, so you want to murder your
>betters.
>
>   You are afraid of the truth, so you want to murder those who would
>tell it.
>
>   You are afraid of history, so you want to murder the past, to wipe
>out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of
>National
>Socialism.
>
>   Finally, you are afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.
>Freedom of choice terrifies you... which is why you choose minor
>children as sexual partners. You can not interact with competent
>adults in a consensually sexual
>way. You need to be able to impose yourself on a helpless victim, be
>it a prepubescent
>boy, or a patient in a mental hospital.
>
>   That is what you are, a Nazi, and there is nothing polite or
>honest about it.
>
>Michael


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:37 EDT 2008
Article: 1937615 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leading Revisionist Scholar Johannes von Ebersdorf Runs - Again
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:37:23 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>McVay gets a real orgasm always repeating him self.

It is most probable that he gets an orgasm any time he hears himself
speak. He is a legend in his own mind.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"B.H. Cramer"  wrote in message 
>news:UtOdneeAtotMySPVnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>> news:pfmdnXqeTpc4BiDVnZ2dnUVZ_v3inZ2d@vex.net...
>>
>> Fuck orf, mcFey, you boring, tiresome prat.
>>
>>
>> 
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1937616 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!news-in-02.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: von Ebersdorf runs away again, tail between legs
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
References:      
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:33:59 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>You found Eberstorf as an enemy. Don't worry you have millions of enemies 
>simply because of your way in saying things.

Gordie has a unique talent to alienate people.

>Kurt Knoll.
>
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:Bd2dnRpFcLATYCDVnZ2dnUVZ_hKdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> In article ,
>> The besotted Poster Boy of Holocaust Revisionism, Kurt Knoll,
>> the reigning Village Idiot of Kitimat  and Laughing Stock
>> of UseNet, fluffed his Jet Black SS Dumbkopf Legion Tutu
>> with Pewter Cross with Coal Cluster and  wrote:
>>
>>>Stop Smoking Dope McVay we all know how sired up you are.
>>
>> I guess this means that Frau Pikelhaube has also noticed Leading
>> Revisionist Scholar Johannes von Ebersdorf's cowardice.
>>
>> Birds of a feather, eh?
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that the Yale University Law "Avalon Project"
>> is "Jewish," as you claimed in August, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "Gussen was a regional crematorium
>> and therefore also included civilian death from this area," as you
>> claimed on July 3, 2008.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that "the Germans killed more Jews
>> that were ever alive" as you claimed on June 28, 2008
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that reporters or photographers carried
>> "5 or 6" striped inmate uniforms from concentration camp to
>> concentration camp just to photograph people wearing them,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to prove that (1) human fat will not combust, and
>> (2) contribute to the heat of the cremation process, as you
>> have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove the existence of a single "Eisenhower
>> death camp," as you have claimed, and you have ignored the fact
>> that the German Government itself has said that Bacque's
>> assertions about hundreds of thousands of German soldiers being
>> deliberately starved to death is absolute rubbish.
>>
>> YOU have failed to document that concentration camp guards -
>> ANY concentration camp guards - were ever placed under any
>> sort of "gag order" by anyone, as you have claimed, nor have you
>> been able to produce this alleged "gag order," or point to any
>> archive, anywhere in the world, where it might be found.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your incredibly stupid assertion that
>> 45,000 people died during the bombing of Nurnberg as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have failed to prove your bizarre assertion that someone,
>> somewhere, said that the Germans killed prisoners at Mauthausen
>> as soon as they arrived by train, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have yet to show which clause of the Versailles Treaty, exactly,
>> prohibits the construction of Polish military installations along
>> the Polish Corridor, even though you claim such a prohibition exists
>> within the treaty.
>>
>> YOU have failed to produce any "agreement" between the Allies and the
>> post-war German government that banned "butting" the Allies in "a bad
>> light" as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted European universities to determine whether or not
>> materials you claim are "banned," as you have claimed, are available.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law that banned publication of newspapers
>> printed between 1918 and 1939, as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not contacted the IFZ to ask them to document their claim about
>> gassings at Dachau.
>>
>> YOU cannot produce a shred of documentation proving that a plaque exists
>> outside the Dachau camp which states that no one was ever gassed there,
>> as you have claimed.
>>
>> YOU have not documented a single law which bans "discussion of the
>> Holocaust," or "asking questions about the Holocaust," as you have
>> claimed.
>>
>> THAT is why your claim that you are here to "find out the truth" is so
>> easily revealed as a blatant lie.
>>
>> YOU have not documented or identified a single law which forbids
>> "dissection" of Holocaust historiography, as you have claimed.
>>
>> -- 
>> Visit Nanaimo's Beautiful Harbour
>> http://squidoo.com/nanaimoharbour
>> 
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1937617 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: von Ebersdorf runs away again, tail between legs
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:07:11 -0700 (PDT), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>On Sep 3, 9:33�am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> You found Eberstorf as an enemy. Don't worry you have millions of enemies
>> simply because of your way in saying things.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>What do you think Ken's motives are for working the Nizkor project and
>for posting on this NG?  He says that holocaust denial offends his
>sense of humanity.  Well he's already proven what his sense of
>humanity is.  So his motives are still mysterious.

Does Ken have any humanity?


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:39 EDT 2008
Article: 1937618 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: von Ebersdorf runs away again, tail between legs
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
References:       <03f8b8d8-f072-485b-8cd4-9b5a7baa788f@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com> 
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On Wed, 03 Sep 2008 15:28:25 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>He is getting paid for promoting the holocaust politic and has also very 
>little education.

He does sound and write like somebody with very low levels of academic
achievement.


> They must keep the holocaust saga alive even if it means 
>to cheat and lie. One has to watch only the news how their system works. If 
>a young group Randal's they are portrayed as neo Nazis to keep the holocaust 
>saga in the limelight.
>Kurt Knoll.
>
>"Bent Attorney"  wrote in message 
>news:03f8b8d8-f072-485b-8cd4-9b5a7baa788f@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 3, 9:33 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> You found Eberstorf as an enemy. Don't worry you have millions of enemies
>> simply because of your way in saying things.
>> Kurt Knoll.
>>
>What do you think Ken's motives are for working the Nizkor project and
>for posting on this NG?  He says that holocaust denial offends his
>sense of humanity.  Well he's already proven what his sense of
>humanity is.  So his motives are still mysterious.
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep  5 11:25:40 EDT 2008
Article: 1937619 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I thought his heart wasn't in it anymore(if it ever was)
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 3 Sep 2008 08:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Bent Attorney
 wrote:

>Maybe once upon a time McVay's heart was into rebutting holocaust
>denial.  I've noticed that he just posts the same tired stuff over and
>over again.  Reading his stuff, I get the impression that he no longer
>cares as much as he did.  Finding out recently that he is getting paid
>to shill for HoloProm I find myself understanding why his posts sound
>so lame.
>When you only do it for the money, it shows.  Immediately.  How much
>they payin' ya Kenneth?

After a couple of months, you will have seen pretty much all of
McVay's historical drivel, and it then repeats like an old 8-track
tape. If you put him on a block filter after two months, you will not
miss anything.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1938382 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: gas chamber story is just war propaganda. Where were the air shelters at Birkenau?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:48:18 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/2/2008 6:11 AM, B.H. Cramer wrote:
>
>> "Gord McFee"  wrote in message 
>> news:b0_uk.69815$4p1.18792@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> On 9/1/2008 11:41 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:22:41 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/29/2008 10:09 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:51:21 -0400, Gord McFee 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:35 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:09:44 +1000, "B.H. Cramer" 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Truth Will Out"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>> news:wHqsk.31137$IK1.29490@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>>>>>>>> "Philip Mathews"  wrote in message 
>>>>>>>>>> news:271ba47b-74ee-405b-bee1-43a31643ffce@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 11:26 am, ZULU  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In article , ZULU 
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The one that lists no less than 900 stokers working in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kremas. Why does one camp require such a number of stokers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can imagine that some SS guards and officers were in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charge of those people It was also an hospital with SS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medics near the Kremas as well as Zentral Sauna where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many SS were in charge of the control.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you're asserting -- without a shred of evidence --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the SS used the Krema cellars as "air-aid shelters"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for them. No testimony, no document, no logical thought
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process to support this insanity. But you don't care, do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LOL. NO document showed by Pressac, a slight nuance...
>>>>>>>>>>>> No document, period.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why don't we have any document concerning the proved
>>>>>>>>>>>>> material transformation of the morgue of Krema I in an air
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shelter?
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0156.htm 
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0157.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can you assume that nothing could be find among 80,000 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents of construction available?
>>>>>>>>>>>> So your "proof" is that the document *may* exist?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And it gets even better -- just yesterday, you said that the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entrance to the cellar was "too small" for it to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serve as a gas chamber. But now you're saying it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large enough for people who have to enter an air-raid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shelter in the maximum possible speed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The SS weren't 2000 on that zone, moron.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You're saying there were so many SS around that they required
>>>>>>>>>>>>  two huge "air-raid shelters", and then you're saying that
>>>>>>>>>>>> the doors of the "air-raid shelters" were too small for
>>>>>>>>>>>> people to enter in a hurry. It's quite amusing to see you
>>>>>>>>>>>> somersault back and forth, little one. RJ.
>>>>>>>>>>> It is amusing to observe your desperate tentative to make that
>>>>>>>>>>> little door more practical to "gas 2000 people" than to serve
>>>>>>>>>>> as entrance to a second stage of SS protection.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Remember that the main entrance to underground was a fair large
>>>>>>>>>>> stairway to the morgue 2 that you insist in calling "undressing
>>>>>>>>>>> room". The entry to the second room would be without rush. And
>>>>>>>>>>> the moron Zulu would have us believe this large stairway to a 
>>>>>>>>>>> "morgue" would be needed to carry the corpses to the morgue? Makes 
>>>>>>>>>>> sensel, right?
>>>>>>>>>> Another dyslexic Holohuxter raises his head.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is it with you people and your lack of education and
>>>>>>>>>> ability? Is whining, lying and hurling invective all you've got?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I doubt I'll bother with you from here on in, Mathews. You're too
>>>>>>>>>> stupid to bother with.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> TTFN.
>>>>>>>>> I see you've met Philthy Mathews. Gobshite extraordinaire, him.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of us have the little wanker killfiled.
>>>>>>>> I figure that I will follow suit and dump Phil in the garbage bin.
>>>>>>> Gads, he must be kicking your collective asses for you to flee so 
>>>>>>> quickly.
>>>>>> You make no sense, Gord.
>>>>> Only to idiots like you.
>>>> The only idiot around these parts is you, Gordie.
>>> Your admission of defeat is noted.
>> 
>> As Johannes has stated - The only idiot around these parts...
>
>is "Johannes".
>
>Right you are.

What a "brilliant" guy our Gordie is. He actually figured out how to
manipulate and distort electronic documents.  LOL


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1938383 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:54:01 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/2/2008 2:19 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:33:48 -0400, Gord McFee
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/1/2008 11:08 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:37:21 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 8/29/2008 10:18 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:07:40 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:42 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:06:56 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Interesting McFee can one see the aging of your book to
>>>>>>>>> analyze its age.
>>>>>>>> It seems that McFee's understanding of a German text is
>>>>>>>> pretty primitive.
>>>>>>> It's a lot better than yours.
>>>>>> LOL, Gord, your bluster and bullshit won't get you out of
>>>>>> this one.
>>>>> I have no need of either.  I merely posted a quote that you
>>>>> said didn't exist.
>>>> I didn't say that it didn't exist, merely that it probably didn't
>>>> say what you claimed it said. I was correct. That is why the
>>>> passage didn't jump out at me when I read the book. Your
>>>> interpretations are putting words into the author's mouth that he
>>>> didn't say and that he probably didn't intend.
>>> What interpretation?  I merely quoted it.
>> 
>> No Gordie, you quoted an irrelevant passage as "proof" of the intent 
>> to institute mass gassings of Jews. The passage doesn't say or even 
>> indirectly imply that. You are the same as some stupid fundie with 
>> their ridiculous interpretations of scripture.
>
>Pathetic.  You said the quote didn't exist.  I proved it does.  You had
>a hissy fit.  Grow up.

LOL, Gordie. You don't have the IQ to have much impact. I generally
just glance at your horseshit and move on.



From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1938384 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 12:58:06 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> No Gordie, you quoted an irrelevant passage as "proof" of the intent
>> to institute mass gassings of Jews. The passage doesn't say or even
>> indirectly imply that.
>
>Yes it does:
>
>"If at the beginning of the War [WW1] and during the War twelve
>or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corrupters of the people had
>been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands
>of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of
>millions at the front would not have been in vain. On the contrary:
>twelve thousand scoundrels eliminated in time might have saved the
>lives of a million real Germans, valuable for the future." -- Vol. 2,
>chapter 15 of Hitler's "Mein Kampf",  1925.

So?

The guy is talking about the past, specifically WW1. There is nothing
there to suggest anything about the future. You are just reading into
the text what you want to see there.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1938386 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:05:07 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <2cusb4tt4b3s1fk1s0i6co2q7uef6qrm2i@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2 Sep 2008 20:10:13 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
>>  wrote:
>
>>>> People who write books, in this case a memoir, tend to do it in the
>>>> language they know best,
>
>>> But Hoess' memoirs *were* written in German.  Is there no
>>> limit to your ignorance?
>
>> His "confession", however, was written in English by his interrogators
>> and he was forced to sign it based on threats to his wife and
>> children.
>
>Even if this is true,  how do you explain his memoirs?

His memoirs were also written during the time before his
execution/murder by his allied captors. The same conditions would
affect those as applied to the coerced confessions.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1938387 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder Sparks Protests In Leipzig
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:03:09 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht 
>news:g9rcnd$v7v$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>> In article <6icqjcFq9kquU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>            (revolting drivel deleted)
>>
>>            heini,  you old shiteater.  Last time you people
>> started with this crap,  it ended with your country decimated,
>> your men dead,  and your women sucking GI cock for a cup of
>> coffee.  Is this what you want?
>
>let me draw your attention to the following: the germans started the war 
>that is a fact, the allied bombed the country into smithereens that is a 
>fact to. 

>after the war a miraclke happened because with the help of the 
>yankeer dollar

The recovery was in spite of the Americans, not because of them. The
so-called Marshal assistance did not even cover the costs of the
allied occupation, so it wasn't really that big a deal. The amount
alloted to ALL EUROPE was $16 billion, so even if Germany had received
all of it (they only received a small percentage), it would only have
amounted to $190.48 per person. American thefts from the chemical
industry alone amounted to losses of $2380.95 per person.

In summary, the Americans did NOT rebuild Germany, any more than they
rebuilt Britain or France, each of which received a hell of a lot more
money than Germany did.

Basically, TallHenry is full of shit. It is crass lies like this that
made me lose all confidence in the holocaust� story, since the same
people that push the holocaust� story also tell the crass lies about
postwar Germany.





> germany was in no time and economical mirackle because in no 
>time its industry was in the lead again.
>
>what can we lerarn from all this? answer: crime does sometimes pay. 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1938388 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder Sparks Protests In Leipzig
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 16:09:28 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>
>"TallHenry"  schreef in bericht 
>news:g9rek5$e2i$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>> In article <6icsknFpuhfcU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>> "TallHenry"  schreef in bericht
>>> news:g9rcnd$v7v$1@pcls6.std.com...
>>
>>>> In article <6icqjcFq9kquU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>> Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>>>            (revolting drivel deleted)
>>>>
>>>>            heini,  you old shiteater.  Last time you people
>>>> started with this crap,  it ended with your country decimated,
>>>> your men dead,  and your women sucking GI cock for a cup of
>>>> coffee.  Is this what you want?
>>
>>> let me draw your attention to the following: the germans started the war
>>> that is a fact, the allied bombed the country into smithereens that is a
>>> fact to. after the war a miraclke happened because with the help of the
>>> yankeer dollar germany was in no time and economical mirackle because in 
>>> no
>>> time its industry was in the lead again.
>>>
>>> what can we lerarn from all this? answer: crime does sometimes pay.
>>
>>            Sometimes.  But the next time you'll have a 20 Megaton nuke
>> explode over downtown Berlin.  Think about it.
>
>true that would be rather unc0mfortable i agree with you 

Feeble-minded TallHenry appears to be stupid enough to think that
somebody can actually "win" a nuclear exchange. Nuclear weapons are
basically useless, especially if the people who are the targets have
them to throw back.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:57 EDT 2008
Article: 1938390 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish Ritual Murder Sparks Protests In Leipzig
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 10:29:45 -0400, Eli Grubman
 wrote:

>On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 13:37:49 +0000 (UTC), TallHenry 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>In article <6icqjcFq9kquU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>Heinrich  wrote:
>>
>>            (revolting drivel deleted)
>>
>>            heini,  you old shiteater.  Last time you people
>>started with this crap,  it ended with your country decimated,
>>your men dead,  and your women sucking GI cock for a cup of
>>coffee.  Is this what you want?
>
>You want to be sucking GI cock.  Is that what you want?

That is probably TallHenry's fantasy.  LOL

>
>Eli


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1938526 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Educational material at the Nizkor site
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 21:44:22 -0400, Gord McFee 
wrote:

>On 9/5/2008 2:28 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 22:54:01 -0400, Gord McFee 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/2/2008 2:19 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:33:48 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/1/2008 11:08 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Aug 2008 20:37:21 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/29/2008 10:18 AM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:07:40 -0400, Gord McFee
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 8/25/2008 4:42 PM, Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:06:56 GMT, "Kurt Knoll"
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting McFee can one see the aging of your book to
>>>>>>>>>>> analyze its age.
>>>>>>>>>> It seems that McFee's understanding of a German text is
>>>>>>>>>> pretty primitive.
>>>>>>>>> It's a lot better than yours.
>>>>>>>> LOL, Gord, your bluster and bullshit won't get you out of
>>>>>>>> this one.
>>>>>>> I have no need of either.  I merely posted a quote that you
>>>>>>> said didn't exist.
>>>>>> I didn't say that it didn't exist, merely that it probably didn't
>>>>>> say what you claimed it said. I was correct. That is why the
>>>>>> passage didn't jump out at me when I read the book. Your
>>>>>> interpretations are putting words into the author's mouth that he
>>>>>> didn't say and that he probably didn't intend.
>>>>> What interpretation?  I merely quoted it.
>>>> No Gordie, you quoted an irrelevant passage as "proof" of the intent 
>>>> to institute mass gassings of Jews. The passage doesn't say or even 
>>>> indirectly imply that. You are the same as some stupid fundie with 
>>>> their ridiculous interpretations of scripture.
>>> Pathetic.  You said the quote didn't exist.  I proved it does.  You had
>>> a hissy fit.  Grow up.
>> 
>> LOL, Gordie. You don't have the IQ to have much impact. I generally
>> just glance at your horseshit and move on.
>
>Yessir, run away.

There is never any substance in your posts, this one being typical of
the genre. There really is nothing there from which to run away. If
you could be less boring and tedious, perhaps more people would
respond, but this sort of drivel on your part is hardly worth the
effort of making a response.

>
>QED.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1938527 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:43:15 -0500, Roger  wrote:

>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>         in message : 
>
>>His memoirs were also written during the time before his
>>execution/murder by his allied captors. The same conditions would
>>affect those as applied to the coerced confessions.
>
>So, now you are left with the task of explaining, if his memoirs were
>written under threat of harm to his family, why he was allowed to
>mention the torture at all, not to mention ridiculing and
>contradicting the "party line" as regards teh Auchwitz death toll.
>
>Not to mention explaining why, since you state you knew that these
>memoirs were written in German, you attempted to imply otherwise.

The prattle here was about two different writings. I would expect the
memoirs to be in German and I would also expect any confession to be
written in German and then perhaps translated into English later. It
is patently obvious that the guy was forced to sign a pre-prepared
English document that he couldn't even read. The confession could just
as easily been in Botwanese, but his captors only knew English.

>
>Also, I continue to wait for your apology to those you accused of
>lying when you were pretending not to know that Hoess understood
>Englsih -- and why it is you thought the statement in question was
>given to the Czechs...
>
>
>** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:58 EDT 2008
Article: 1938528 of alt.revisionism
Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-in-01.newsfeed.easynews.com!core-easynews!easynews.com!easynews!en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks about Destroying the Jews in his Diary
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 03:58:22 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>You must be talking to yourself but I think you have a brain tumour. Watch 
>out it is in advanced stage. Hate to see loosing you. We are having a hell 
>fun drying to figure you out.

I don't know what poor Roger has been drinking, but I don't owe an
apology to anybody.

>Kurt Knoll
>
>"I'll Always Be Here"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9B10CF83EF07Theonlyonethatcares@87.106.137.111...
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in
>> news:XDmwk.148875$nD.22837@pd7urf1no:
>>
>>> You must remember the Jews write their own script all we have to do is
>>> doing the believing.
>>
>>
>> You must remember that kurt knoll has never told the truth. And he doesn't
>> need a script, it's genetic
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kurt Knoll.
>>>
>>> "Roger"  wrote in message
>>> news:4023c4dtiieak9o8rr0u2jt9j3kjuhcgo5@4ax.com...
>>>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>>>      someone claiming to be Johannes von Ebersdorf wrote
>>>>         in message :
>>>>
>>>>>His memoirs were also written during the time before his
>>>>>execution/murder by his allied captors. The same conditions would
>>>>>affect those as applied to the coerced confessions.
>>>>
>>>> So, now you are left with the task of explaining, if his memoirs were
>>>> written under threat of harm to his family, why he was allowed to
>>>> mention the torture at all, not to mention ridiculing and
>>>> contradicting the "party line" as regards teh Auchwitz death toll.
>>>>
>>>> Not to mention explaining why, since you state you knew that these
>>>> memoirs were written in German, you attempted to imply otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I continue to wait for your apology to those you accused of
>>>> lying when you were pretending not to know that Hoess understood
>>>> Englsih -- and why it is you thought the statement in question was
>>>> given to the Czechs...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1938529 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why react to lunatics?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:31:23 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Roger"  wrote in message 
>news:bpc1c4hts49m611g7nilpqckpo9b8cd2ar@4ax.com...
>> In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>      someone claiming to be 127.0.0.1 wrote
>>         in message :
>>
>>>On Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:44:34 -0500
>>>Roger  wrote:
>>
>>>> >> "Far better judge of character"!?!?!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That's rich, coming from a teenaged boy who steals his parents'
>>>> >> liquor.
>>
>>>> >It's not stealing.
>>
>>>> It's not yours, you do not have permission to drink it.
>>>>
>>>> It *is* stealing.
>>
>> But do keep running from that fact.
>
>It is NOT stealing, fuckstain.

Is this Roger character another McFee clone? He keeps ranting about
the same demented McFee "running away" theme.

>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1938530 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: did the jews manage to silence ben cramer?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
References: <6i9o7dFpild6U1@mid.individual.net>   <6i9ul8FpmlduU1@mid.individual.net> <3c01b4c6-69e1-407b-8dd4-6912a05d061f@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com>   <3afdb489-da7e-49ee-a61e-60b0bb6f222e@r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
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On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:27:42 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 3:16 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> "Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:3c01b4c6-69e1-407b-8dd4-6912a05d061f@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 4, 4:19 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in
>> > berichtnews:Pv6dnRCpN7okKCLVnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> > > "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>> > >news:6i9o7dFpild6U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > >> it has come to my notice that from the day i returned on usenet the
>> > >> posting of mr.cramer are practically zero and that makes me wonder
>> > >> whether the chosen ones finally got him on his tail.
>>
>> > >> any news about mr.cramer's well being will be appreciated
>>
>> > > G'day Heinrich
>>
>> > > I'm still kicking jew arse.
>>
>> > good to hear that
>>
>>  >  Yes, you like hearing fantasies.
>>
>> I don't at all, greaser.
>>
>> I thought even the blind would have understood that I have no time for
>> fantasy whatsoever. I'm on record as being something of a critic of yid
>> fantasies, e.g. their Holocaust(tm) thingie.
>   Holocaust denial is an outright lie for the purpose of making
>National Socialism acceptable.

I'm under no obligation to believe your fables, religious or
otherwise. Nobody is "denying" anything.

>
>
> Michael


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:29:59 EDT 2008
Article: 1938531 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: did the jews manage to silence ben cramer?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 02:01:04 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message 
>news:3afdb489-da7e-49ee-a61e-60b0bb6f222e@r35g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 5, 3:16 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> "Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:3c01b4c6-69e1-407b-8dd4-6912a05d061f@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Sep 4, 4:19 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in
>>> > berichtnews:Pv6dnRCpN7okKCLVnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> > > "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>>> > >news:6i9o7dFpild6U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> > >> it has come to my notice that from the day i returned on usenet the
>>> > >> posting of mr.cramer are practically zero and that makes me wonder
>>> > >> whether the chosen ones finally got him on his tail.
>>>
>>> > >> any news about mr.cramer's well being will be appreciated
>>>
>>> > > G'day Heinrich
>>>
>>> > > I'm still kicking jew arse.
>>>
>>> > good to hear that
>>>
>>>  >  Yes, you like hearing fantasies.
>>>
>>> I don't at all, greaser.
>>>
>>> I thought even the blind would have understood that I have no time for
>>> fantasy whatsoever. I'm on record as being something of a critic of yid
>>> fantasies, e.g. their Holocaust(tm) thingie.
>>   Holocaust denial is an outright lie for the purpose of making
>> National Socialism acceptable.
>>
>>
>> Michael
>Does this men we have to believe anything you say ?????????????.

That's what it sounds like, Kurt. Poor ejaculito is an arsehole.

>Kurt Knoll.
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:30:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1938532 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: did the jews manage to silence ben cramer?
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 09:36:40 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
 wrote:

>On Sep 5, 8:22�pm, Eli Grubman  wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 17:27:42 -0700 (PDT), Michael Ejercito
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Sep 5, 3:16 pm, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>> >> "Michael Ejercito"  wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:3c01b4c6-69e1-407b-8dd4-6912a05d061f@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>> >> On Sep 4, 4:19 am, "Heinrich"  wrote:
>>
>> >> > "B.H. Cramer"  schreef in
>> >> > berichtnews:Pv6dnRCpN7okKCLVnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> >> > > "Heinrich"  wrote in message
>> >> > >news:6i9o7dFpild6U1@mid.individual.net...
>> >> > >> it has come to my notice that from the day i returned on usenet the
>> >> > >> posting of mr.cramer are practically zero and that makes me wonder
>> >> > >> whether the chosen ones finally got him on his tail.
>>
>> >> > >> any news about mr.cramer's well being will be appreciated
>>
>> >> > > G'day Heinrich
>>
>> >> > > I'm still kicking jew arse.
>>
>> >> > good to hear that
>>
>> >> �> �Yes, you like hearing fantasies.
>>
>> >> I don't at all, greaser.
>>
>> >> I thought even the blind would have understood that I have no time for
>> >> fantasy whatsoever. I'm on record as being something of a critic of yid
>> >> fantasies, e.g. their Holocaust(tm) thingie.
>> > � Holocaust denial is an outright lie for the purpose of making
>> >National Socialism acceptable.
>>
>> Holocaust acceptance is an outright lie for the purpose of making jew
>> money-grubbing acceptable.
>>
>> Eli
>   The Holocaust happened.

Nobody is stopping you from believing that. You are also free to
believe in unicorns or the Easter bunny.

>
>   Nazi degenerates like you want to deny the truth.

There haven't been any Nazis for more than sixty years. Get with the
times. All these people are saying is that they find your fables
unconvincing.

>
>   You are a Nazi.

That really isn't too fucking likely.

>
>   As a Nazi, you are, above all else, a craven coward.

Nonsense.

>
>   You are afraid to compete with others as equals because you know
>you can not measure up.

Any of these people exceed your feeble intellect.

>
>   You are afraid of your own inadequacy, so you want to murder your
>betters.

None of your opponents want to murder anybody. You are the
blood-thirsty savage of the crowd.

>
>   You are afraid of the truth, so you want to murder those who would
>tell it.

Your opponents are not afraid of truth. It is you and your fellow
travellers that want to imprison people for failing to pay lip service
to your fables.

>
>   You are afraid of history, so you want to murder the past, to wipe
>out the knowledge of the degeneracy, cowardice and failure of
>National
>Socialism.

None of this discussion has anything to do with National Socialism.
This discussion is about historical fabrication by the holocaust�
industry.

>
>   Finally, you are afraid of the power of educated, informed adults.

People such as McFee and McVay hardly qualify as educated, informed
adults.

>Freedom of choice terrifies you... which is why you choose minor
>children as sexual partners. You can not interact with competent
>adults in a consensually sexual
>way. You need to be able to impose yourself on a helpless victim, be
>it a prepubescent
>boy, or a patient in a mental hospital.

Your pathetic descent into slime-ball politics shows the basic
bankruptcy of your "cause".

>
>   That is what you are, a Nazi, and there is nothing polite or
>honest about it.

You are just a jackass.

>
>Michael


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep  8 17:30:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1938534 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vandals mar art show on Holocaust
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 16:16:43 +0200, "Heinrich" 
wrote:

>Stickers on signs sought to deny event as historical fact
>
>http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...caust0906.html
>
>
>
>The Arizona Republic
>
>A Scottsdale Holocaust-tribute artist says he's disappointed that his 
>exhibit was marred with denial stickers when it opened Wednesday.
>He encouraged people to go view it.
>
>"It was disappointing to know those kind of people are out there," said 
>Robert Sutz, 78. "It's so irrefutable that this Holocaust did happen."
>The stickers were found on signs at the Scottsdale Public Library's 
>Holocaust tribute exhibit.(...)
>
>"It's an unfortunate incident, especially for the survivors who were there 
>at the opening, to think that there are people who do not recognize that the 
>Holocaust actually happened," Coster said.(...)
>
>June Brott, 72, of Oakland, sister of the artist, saw stickers on three 
>signs.
>She said two stickers had Holocaust-denial Web-site addresses along with the 
>phrase, "Are you being duped?"
>
>"It was extremely disturbing," Brott said. "It's the worst thing because 
>this artist, the reason he's doing this is because he's been so disturbed by 
>people who deny the Holocaust happening and his father's family was murdered 
>in Poland." 

Lots of people were murdered in Poland, including several million
ethnic Germans in the period from 1945 until 1950, after the onset of
the so-called "allied peace" which wasn't a peace at all.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 12 16:38:00 EDT 2008
Article: 1939076 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Almanacs Never Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:36:32 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>Old Almanacs Never Lie!
>
>They just lay out jew LIES like a fillet of rotten fish
>
>584,549 MORE jews in 1949 than in 1940
>
>Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000
>
>World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine 
>gave a total of 115,151 Jews"
>
>World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000
>
>National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000
>
>March 24, 1933, jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 jews worldwide
>
>World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the 
>above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"
>
>World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world jewish population = 15,753,633
>
>World wide population of jews?  Per  figures from FOUR different jewish 
>sources: 1) The American Jewish Committee, Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 
>2) Judaica Encyclopedia, 3) The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, and 4) The 
>jews, their History, Culture, and Religion, it INCREASED by 584,549 jews 
>between 1941 and 1948!
>
>
>
>World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world jewish population = 15,748,091, with 
>240,000 in Germany
>
>American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 --  
>15,600,000
>
>World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359
>
>World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091
>
>World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews 
>include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")
>
>World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000
>
>World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638
>
>Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000
>
>Encyclopedia Britannica's 1955 Book of the Year -- 11,627,450, "Jewish 
>figures include all Jews whether members of a synagogue or not"
>
>World Almanac, US News & World Report, 1983 population of jews -- 16,820,850
>
>World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population -- 14,117,000
>
>World Almanac & Book of Facts, 1989: World Jewish Population --18,080,000
>
>World Almanac & Book of Facts, 2001: World Jewish Population -- 13,200,000

It would appear that some sort of holocaust� occurred between 1989 and
2001.

They seem to be regular cycles.
>
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 12 16:38:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1939269 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Old Almanacs Never Lie
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 23:34:10 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:kddfc4dt9373qo574p4p8rl33a3fou4jop@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 07 Sep 2008 23:36:32 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Old Almanacs Never Lie!
>>>
>>>They just lay out jew LIES like a fillet of rotten fish
>>>
>>>584,549 MORE jews in 1949 than in 1940
>>>
>>>Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine
>>>gave a total of 115,151 Jews"
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000
>>>
>>>National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000
>>>
>>>March 24, 1933, jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 jews 
>>>worldwide
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the
>>>above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world jewish population = 15,753,633
>>>
>>>World wide population of jews?  Per  figures from FOUR different jewish
>>>sources: 1) The American Jewish Committee, Bureau of the Synagogue 
>>>Council,
>>>2) Judaica Encyclopedia, 3) The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, and 4) The
>>>jews, their History, Culture, and Religion, it INCREASED by 584,549 jews
>>>between 1941 and 1948!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world jewish population = 15,748,091, with
>>>240,000 in Germany
>>>
>>>American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 --
>>>15,600,000
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews
>>>include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")
>>>
>>>World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638
>>>
>>>Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000
>>>
>>>Encyclopedia Britannica's 1955 Book of the Year -- 11,627,450, "Jewish
>>>figures include all Jews whether members of a synagogue or not"
>>>
>>>World Almanac, US News & World Report, 1983 population of jews --  
>>>16,820,850
>>>
>>>World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population -- 14,117,000
>>>
>>>World Almanac & Book of Facts, 1989: World Jewish Population --18,080,000
>>>
>>>World Almanac & Book of Facts, 2001: World Jewish Population -- 13,200,000
>>
>> It would appear that some sort of holocaustT occurred between 1989 and
>> 2001.
>
>Too right. They haven't been able to manufacture a decent enough story to 
>cover that loss yet?
>
>>
>> They seem to be regular cycles.
>
>With good reason.

Perhaps it works in a similar fashion to the rabbit population in
Australia. That population periodically crashes also.

>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>> 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 12 16:38:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1939271 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Bill Johnson - Hitler liked black people!
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:44:07 -0700 (PDT), LIBERATOR
 wrote:

>Any references in Mein Kampf about hating blacks, was added by Jews
>after the war. This is proven by Mein Kampf 2nd, and even 3rd
>editions, and the 2nd edition is given a sizeable forward by a Jew.
>The Jews are skilled doublethinkers, by use of duplicity. That which
>they are which is vile racists, they are skilled craftsman at putting
>this on others as their truth, and then the Jews poise themselves as
>defending against it, that racism is against them. But the Jewish
>Talmud is clear evidence of their true racism, and even considering
>themselves to be the "chosen people", gives them  no escape from being
>the true racists.
>
>But there are publications that claim  that Hitler hated blacks, yet
>no blacks are ever seen in photos of concentration camps, or ever was
>their evidence them of them being wronged. On the contrary, I found
>photos of a troupe of black Waffen SS soldiers, and they were being
>awarded medals by their commander - Iron Cross to be exact. This photo
>I have been unable to locate, and I suspect the Jews controlling the
>media pulled this photo from being circulated publically.
>
>Destined To Witness: Growing Up Black In Hitlers Germany - gives
>evidence of German people appreciating black people, and Hitler only
>increased that.

For practical purposes, one could have counted the number of black
people in Germany on the fingers of one hand. Black people in Germany
is a recent phenomenon. My mother was born in 1923 and the first black
person she saw, other than in books, was an American occupier in
Stuttgart in 1947. That one had been surrounded by a huge crowd of
curious onlookers enthralled by the novelty.

You are otherwise correct however, that the famed Jesse Owens would
have been welcomed in any restaurant in Berlin and he would not have
had to sit at the back of the bus as would have been the case in the
USA.






> Jewish media publications say the contrary, but if you
>understand that they owning the media were able to convince the world
>of the holocaust, convincing the world that Hitler hated blacks was
>quite less difficult. The photo indicates that German kids are almost
>in awe of him because he is black, and that is a common attitude among
>Germans.
>http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060959614/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link
>
>Also, a site dedicated to the Axis Powers, but for political
>correctness says the holocaust happened, shows a photo of a black
>soldier in the Wehrmacht, and it's funny and rewarding for me, because
>up until the person posted the photo, all the anti-Nazi people that
>try to uphold the lies against Hitler and Nationalist Socialism, were
>stating there was never any black man in the German Wehrmacht, it was
>illegal, and they were all being sterilized and sent to camps. None of
>this was true, and this photo is very solidly the evidence of it, it
>can be found here: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=12739&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
>
>But the most profound evidence showing Hitler appreciated black
>people, is by his film-maker Leni Riefenstahl, who adored him and
>produced this post-war work for him knowing he was still alive:
>http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/dienuba/1.html
>
>Adolf Hitler felt sorry for the blacks, that they were abused by the
>white man (but only after blacks started the slave trade by selling
>off their own people to white man), so Hitler wanting the blacks to be
>shown as the beautiful people they are was to show them in their true
>habitation, and they were just like American Indians in most respects.
>So Leni being an intimate even sexual resource for Hitler, knowing his
>true stance on black people - or Africans - went and did this work,
>not only to affiliate Hitler but more so the German people.
>http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/dienuba/1.html
>
>http://www.leni-riefenstahl.de/eng/dienuba/11.html
>
>Leni, knowing reincarnation is real, and being a devout Nazi herself,
>setup her website so that it was Nationalist Socialist functionality,
>by the control panel of numbers, you click on one and it gives you a
>photo. This simple control panel, is the total Nazi thinking of all
>that Hitler did. Every existing subject or knowledge, can be broken
>down as this system on Lenis' website. And Hitler literally broke down
>everything in existence, to this simple functionality. The superior
>technology such as flying saucers, nuclear power, lazer guns, free
>energy, and on, were all achieved by using the thought train of this
>style. Every article of existence, has a substring of definitive
>articles.
>
>Hitler liked blacks! And when Hitler was Thomas Jefferson, his slave
>Isaac Jefferson today is Eddie Murphy, the comedian. And Eddie Murphy
>knows it. !
>
>Thanks for reading my posts Bill!
>
>


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 12 16:38:01 EDT 2008
Article: 1939281 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: For Bill Johnson - Hitler liked black people!
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 06:58:13 -0700 (PDT), eyeball
 wrote:

>On Sep 10, 8:44�pm, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>I heard he liked them baked, same as when he ate kosher.

The USA is one of the most racist states on earth, and it is a bit
hypocritical of them to complain about German attitudes to black
people.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Tue Sep 16 19:16:12 EDT 2008
Article: 1939974 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Taubner verdict:  further proof of the extermination policy
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 16:11:26 GMT, "Kurt Knoll" 
wrote:

>
>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gam0k0$95q$1@aioe.org...
>> RJ11 wrote:
>>
>>> In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>RJ11 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>   Which is what,  you silly little sniveling nazi bastard?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Genuine text of that verdict,
>>>
>>>
>>>    In what language do you require it,  sniveling nazi bastard?
>>
>> Genuins Text In German and its official translation in English if 
>> possible.
>
>It sure would be nice if one can compare the  original with what they write.
>Kurt Knoll. 
>
It would indeed be nice, since I have seen numerous "translations"
that were inept at best and downright deceptive at worst.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Tue Sep 16 19:16:12 EDT 2008
Article: 1939975 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Answer #2:  Obersturmfuhrer Krone is not satisfied with Auschwitz's number of muffles in a camp of 230,000 inmates
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 18:50:22 +0200, ZULU  wrote:

>RJ11 wrote:
>
>> In article ,
>> Patrick Keenan  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>"ZULU"  wrote in message news:gam054$503$4@aioe.org...
>> 
>> 
>>>>KRONE WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF BURNING MORE THAN 4 TIMES
>>>>THE TOTALITY OF THE PLANNED POPULATION AT HIS CAMP IN 1 YEAR!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>ALL HIS INMATES IN 3 MONTHS !!!!!
>>>>
>>>>THat was not ENOUGH !!!!
>> 
>> 
>>>Yes, because they intended get more people as they killed the ones they had.
>>>
>>>It's really rather humorous that you don't understand this. 
>> 
>> 
>>    This "ZULU" guy is the biggest fucking moron among the deniers.  He
>> makes Kurt Knoll look like Werner Heisenberg. 
>> 
>
>When you use the word "denier" please be more accurate, give what is denied in your 
>particular claim.
>I am a denier for so many things....

LOL

I don't "deny" the Easter Bunny. I just don't believe that this
creature exists. The two things are not the same.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Tue Sep 16 19:16:13 EDT 2008
Article: 1939976 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Answer #2:  Obersturmfuhrer Krone is not satisfied with Auschwitz's number of muffles in a camp of 230,000 inmates
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 00:36:53 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Patrick Keenan"  wrote in message 
>news:OrGdnYZJ_LyWEVPVnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@supernews.com...
>>
>> "ZULU"  wrote in message news:gam054$503$4@aioe.org...
>>> RJ11 wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article , ZULU   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>RJ11 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>   "I told him that at this time 3 double-muffle ovens are in 
>>>>>> operation,
>>>>>>with a capacity of 250 per day.  Further, currently under construction
>>>>>>are 5 triple muffle ovens with a daily capacity of 800.  Today and in
>>>>>>the next few days, 2 eight-muffle ovens, each with a daily capacity of
>>>>>>800, will come on consignment, redirected from Mogilew.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Mr K said that this number of muffles is not yet sufficient; we 
>>>>>> should
>>>>>>deliver more ovens as quickly as possible."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>And, big moron, where have you read that << Krone talks about "2,650 
>>>>>corpses a day">> ???
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Add the numbers above,  silly nazi bastard.  Take all the time
>>>> you need.
>>>
>>> Better to use those numbers, a lot more fantastic
>>>
>>> "Krone was not satisfied with a capacity of cremation of 967,250 corpse 
>>> per year"....
>>>
>>> KRONE WAS NOT SATISFIED WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF BURNING MORE THAN 4 TIMES
>>> THE TOTALITY OF THE PLANNED POPULATION AT HIS CAMP IN 1 YEAR!!!!!
>>>
>>> ALL HIS INMATES IN 3 MONTHS !!!!!
>>>
>>> THat was not ENOUGH !!!!
>>
>> Yes, because they intended get more people as they killed the ones they 
>> had.
>>
>> It's really rather humorous that you don't understand this.   It's an 
>> excellent example of the intellectual disabilities required for 
>> "revisionism".
>
>Do you still believe in the tooth fairy? It seems so.

Some of the holocaust fables make the tooth fairy concept seem fairly
rational by comparison.

>
>Watch this and you will see how the Holocaust was created and why.
>
>http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/Buchenwald/
>
>
>>
>> -pk 
>


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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Warsaw Ghetto: Planned Starvation Policy
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On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 12:37:02 -0700 (PDT), "Chris C. Larson"
 wrote:

>On Sep 15, 10:15�pm, "V"  wrote:
>> Usurers and thieves, all of them
>>
>> "Kurt Knoll"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:osvzk.270866$gc5.168613@pd7urf2no...
>>
>>
>>
>> > And what kind of work did the Jews do. Is there such a thing like a Jewish
>> > qualified Jewish worker.
>> > Kurt Knoll
>>
>> > "Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message
>> >news:OeednUAhRf7691PVnZ2dnUVZ_hqdnZ2d@vex.net...
>> >> At its most swollen, the ghetto housed 445,000 Jews, and was the
>> >> largest concentration of Jews and Jewish workers in Poland. The
>> >> ghetto's living conditions would have been irrational if the Germans'
>> >> designs
>> >> for Polish Jews had accorded any significant place for them to work
>> >> productively; the Germans' policies, in fact, form a textbook plan of how
>> >> to
>> >> turn healthy, able workers quickly into shadows of human beings, into
>> >> decrepit
>> >> living skeletons, or real ones. The Warsaw ghetto contained 30 percent of
>> >> Warsaw's population in 2.4 percent of its area, making for a population
>> >> density
>> >> of 200,000 per square mile. It had a housing density of over 9 people per
>> >> ROOM
>> >> in every apartment. Water, heating, and sewage were catastrophically
>> >> inadequate. The unbearable overpopulation of the ghetto together with the
>> >> unhealful hygienic conditions were alone bound to produce illness and
>> >> disease.
>> >> Yet the food situation, which amounted to a policy of planned starvation,
>> >> made
>> >> these other inhuman conditions, by comparison, seem livable. The official
>> >> daily
>> >> food ration for Jews of the Warsaw ghetto was 300 calories. For Poles it
>> >> was
>> >> 634 calories, and for Germans it was 2310. The Jews did not even receive
>> >> all of
>> >> this pitiful, offical allotment. The predictable, expected consequences
>> >> of this
>> >> policy occured. The inhabitants of the ghetto quickly reached a permanent
>> >> state
>> >> of semi-starvation, producing a dangerously weakened population
>> >> unsuitable for
>> >> sustained work, let alone for physically taxing employment. The number of
>> >> deaths in the ghetto, mainly due to starvation and its attendant
>> >> afflictions,
>> >> was staggering, averaging about 4,650 Jews per month between May 1941 and
>> >> May
>> >> 1942, which was over 1 percent of the population each month, or 12
>> >> percent a
>> >> year.
>>
>> >> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � � �Work Cited
>>
>> >> Goldhagen, Dr. Daniel. "Hitler's Willing Executioners," Alfred A. Knopf,
>> >> New York,
>> >> 1996. 289.

This book is universally regarded as absolute, worthless garbage.

>>
>> >> --
>> >> The Nizkor Project �- � An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>> >> � �David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
>> >>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
>> >> � � �http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>That is quite amusing, considering you've never met any Jews.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1940382 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Answer #2:  Obersturmfuhrer Krone is not satisfied with Auschwitz's number of muffles in a camp of 230,000 inmates
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:21:57 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , ZULU   wrote:
>
>> RJ11 wrote:
>
>>>    By the way,  where are the remains of the "million German
>>> POWs" which you assert were "killed by the Allies"?
>
>> Give me the plans of location of DEF camps and related registers to start.
>
>Ok,  let's see what we have here.
>
>You deny the Holocaust,  although huge mass graves were found
>in the Nazi death camps.

That means nothing, since many of the camps remained in use until 1950
to house/exterminate German civilians expelled from the areas that
were to be annexed by Poland.

>
>Yet you claim that the Allies killed "a million German POWs",
>although you have no mass graves of these German POWs to prove
>that.  You admit that you don't even know where these alleged
>mass graves of German POWs are supposed to be.

German POW losses are much better documented than the vast bulk of the
holocaust story.

>
>Do you realize how stupid you look now?  I hope not.  It
>will be so horribly painful.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:32 EDT 2008
Article: 1940384 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The REAL HOLOCAUST of PALESTINIANS that is being COMMITTED by  ZIONIST-JEWS in ISREAL, is threatening the extremely lucrative Shoah ?????,  Holo-Cash business, and there's no business like the Shoah ????? business!
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:16:45 -0700 (PDT), dsharavi
 wrote:

>> > "�Do�g��"  wrote in message
>> > > Nah, the muslime pig fuckers were always squatters.
>
>> On Sep 15, 1:00 am, "Kurt Knoll"  wrote:
>> > So you say. Who build Ramalla and Jenin
>> > Kurt Knoll.
>
>> >Jews built "Jenin" - Ein Ganim - several thousand years ago. It's
>> >mentioned in the bible and in Josephus, under it's real name. "Jenin"
>> >is the Arabic version of the Hebrew name.
>
>On Sep 15, 5:04 pm, "Truth Will Out" 
>wrote:
>> Jews built nothing of substance in the Middle East.
>
>For something that is "nothing of substance", it attracted one helluva
>lot of drooling Fakestinian squatters.

It is the modern Israelis who are the squatters.

>
>Deborah


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1940389 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenomenal reenactors of Wehrmacht
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:57:43 -0700, "Protagonist"
 wrote:

>Clip is from the movie Stalingrad!

That was a pretty pathetic propaganda movie. It really is little more
than anti-German hate propaganda and with very little substance.

>JS
>
>"LIBERATOR"  wrote in message 
>news:a7ae02e2-c695-485a-8a21-e5597546fac8@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>I thought they were real at first.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmIaiQ_UPP8&NR=1
>>
>> This a movie that was made in Germany?
>>
>> These guys look like real soldiers. Perhaps Germany is secretly
>> training their Bundswehr as legit Wehrmacht & SS.
>>
>> When Spielberg does his movies to revise history, he's going to want
>> to hire these guys for SS in his movie. 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1940391 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: germany makes list of jews
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:41:56 +0200, "Heinrich"
 wrote:

>
>Germany has compiled a list of some 600,000 Jews who lived there from 1933 
>to 1945 and suffered discrimination by the Nazis, an index that is to be 
>distributed among leading archives to help descendants research the fate of 
>their families.

In 939, there were fewer than 200,000 Jews in Germany. The figure of
600,000 is an absolute historical maximum for that population in
Germany. Large numbers had moved away after 1933.

>
>The government said Wednesday it would give the list to Israel's Yad Vashem 
>Holocaust memorial, Washington's Holocaust Museum, the Jewish Claims 
>Conference and the International Tracing Service in Bad Arolsen, Germany.
>Germany's federal archive drew up the list, which the government and a 
>foundation that oversaw the compensation of Nazi-era slave laborers financed 
>it to the tune of �1.57 million (US$2.24 million).
>
>"In handing over this list, we want to make a substantial contribution to 
>documenting the loss that German Jewry suffered through persecution, 
>expulsion and destruction," foundation leader Guenter Saathof said in a 
>statement coinciding with a handing-over ceremony at the chancellery.
>
>The government said the idea for the list, drawn up over the past four 
>years, first arose during negotiations over unpaid insurance claims dating 
>back to the Nazi era.
>
>It was compiled using information held in the nation's federal archive, as 
>well as municipal registries and deportation lists.
>
>The list was not released to the public on Wednesday. The foundation said it 
>is subject to strict German data protection laws, given that it contains 
>names of people who are still alive.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:33 EDT 2008
Article: 1940395 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Untold truth vindicating Hitler regarding Stalingrad
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:29:36 -0700 (PDT), LIBERATOR
 wrote:

>Hitler, gave Paulus, choice of "Free judgement", simply to decide what
>the best choice would be regarding the situation.
>
>Sure Hitler failed to keep them supplied, but Hitler did not order a
>no retreat order.
>
>They were surrounded and to retreat, they would have had to fight out
>of the encirclement, expending supplies without guarantee of breaking
>through the lines.

A breakout would have been practical within the first few weeks of the
encirclement. The problem was that the Soviet forces had access to
supplies, whereas the German forces did not, with the result that the
German forces in the city became progressively weaker while their
opponents were in a position to build up their strength.

>
>So Paulus and the men came up with the "hedgehog" concept, of holding
>the city and digging in as hedgehogs. Hitler did not order it, he gave
>"freedom of decision" to Paulus. This has been censored by the Jews
>after they won the war.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1940397 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ilya Ehrenberg - The Man Who Invented The "Six Million"
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 21:13:05 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>Ilya Ehrenberg - The Man
>Who Invented The 'Six Million'
>2-3-7
>http://www.rense.com:80/general75/ehr.htm
>
>
>He was a prolific writer, celebrated author of various novels and other 
>works of fiction. He was the top Soviet propagandist during the Second World 
>War. He was a notorious liar and a pathological monster. He was a Jew.
>
>As a a leading member of the Soviet-sponsored Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, 
>Ilya Ehrenburg appeared at fund-raising rallies in the United States, 
>raising support for the Communist cause while displaying fake bars of soap 
>allegedly manufactured by the Germans from the corpses of dead Jews.
>
>But Ehrenburg was perhaps most notorious for his viciously anti-German hate 
>propaganda in World War II. In it, he exhorted Soviet troops to kill  all 
>Germans they encountered without pity.*
>
>
>Ilya Grigoryevich Ehrenburg
>January 27, 1891 - August 31, 1967
>
>In one leaflet entitled "Kill," Ehrenburg incited the simple Russian soldier 
>to treat the Germans as subhuman. The final paragraph concludes:
>
>"The Germans are not human beings. From now on, the word 'German' is the 
>most horrible curse. From now on, the word 'German' strikes us to the quick. 
>We have nothing to discuss. We will not get excited. We will kill. If you 
>have not killed at least one German a day, you have wasted that day ... If 
>you cannot kill a German with a bullet, then kill him with your bayonet. If 
>your part of the front is quiet and there is no fighting, then kill a German 
>in the meantime ... If you have already killed a German, then kill another 
>one - there is nothing more amusing to us than a heap of German corpses. 
>Don't count the days, don't count the kilometers. Count only one thing: the 
>number of Germans you have killed. Kill the Germans! ...  - Kill the 
>Germans! Kill!"
>
>And in another leaflet:  "The Germans must be killed. One must kill them ... 
>Do you feel sick? Do you feel a nightmare in your breast? ... Kill a German! 
>If you are a righteous an conscientious man - kill a German! ... Kill!"
>
>This is typical of the steady diet of pathological hate fed to millions of 
>Soviet troops by this Jew, safely ensconced far from the front.
>
>But it wasn't only the ordinary German soldier Ehrenburg was talking about, 
>whom he accused of the very atrocities the Communists were themselves 
>committing. Ehrenburg's incendiary writings were, in fact,  a prime 
>motivating factor in the orgy of murder and rape against the  civilian 
>population that took place as Soviet troops rampaged into the heart of 
>Europe. Appealing to the lowest, most subhuman instincts of this  Bolshevik 
>horde, he reiterated his genocidal message:
>
>"Kill! Kill! In the German race there is nothing but evil; not one among the 
>living, not one among the yet unborn but is evil! Follow the precepts of 
>Comrade Stalin. Stamp out the fascist beast once and for all in its lair! 
>Use force and break the racial pride of these German women. Take them as 
>your lawful booty. Kill! As you storm onward, kill, you gallant soldiers of 
>the Red Army."
>
>The crowning achievement of Ehrenburg's career came on December 22, 1944, 
>when this hate-crazed fiend became the first person to mention the 
>kabbalistic figure of Six Million alleged Jewish victims of National 
>Socialism, and then proceeded to introduce that figure into Soviet 
>propaganda.
>
>After the war he joined with co-racial and fellow propagandist Vasily (Iosif 
>Solomonovich) Grossman to produce a fictitious "Black Book" and  lay the 
>foundation for what has come to be known as "The Holocaust."**  The rest is 
>history.
>
>Ehrenburg never forgot his Jewish roots, and before his death he arranged 
>for the transfer of his private archives to the tribal cult center at Yad 
>Vashem in Jerusalem.
>
>And so, it is altogether fitting that the birthday of this psychopathic 
>lie-master should have been chosen as a day on which to remember the hoax 
>which he concocted and of which he was the original inventor.

It was Solzhenitsyn, the famous Russian author, who ended up in a
Soviet concentration camp for his vocal opposition to the wholesale
murder and mass rape characteristic of the allied hordes that invaded
Germany.

As I have pointed out before, there is virtually nothing of which the
allies accuse German authorities which the allies had not done
themselves, and often in much greater measure. 


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1940400 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: germany makes list of jews
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:24:55 -0400, Johannes von Ebersdorf
 wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 08:41:56 +0200, "Heinrich"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Germany has compiled a list of some 600,000 Jews who lived there from 1933 
>>to 1945 and suffered discrimination by the Nazis, an index that is to be 
>>distributed among leading archives to help descendants research the fate of 
>>their families.
>
>In 939, there were fewer than 200,000 Jews in Germany. The figure of
>600,000 is an absolute historical maximum for that population in
>Germany. Large numbers had moved away after 1933.

LOL, make that 1939 rather than 939. In 939 one could probably have
counted the Jews in Germany on the fingers of one hand.

>
>>
>>The government said Wednesday it would give the list to Israel's Yad Vashem 
>>Holocaust memorial, Washington's Holocaust Museum, the Jewish Claims 
>>Conference and the International Tracing Service in Bad Arolsen, Germany.
>>Germany's federal archive drew up the list, which the government and a 
>>foundation that oversaw the compensation of Nazi-era slave laborers financed 
>>it to the tune of �1.57 million (US$2.24 million).
>>
>>"In handing over this list, we want to make a substantial contribution to 
>>documenting the loss that German Jewry suffered through persecution, 
>>expulsion and destruction," foundation leader Guenter Saathof said in a 
>>statement coinciding with a handing-over ceremony at the chancellery.
>>
>>The government said the idea for the list, drawn up over the past four 
>>years, first arose during negotiations over unpaid insurance claims dating 
>>back to the Nazi era.
>>
>>It was compiled using information held in the nation's federal archive, as 
>>well as municipal registries and deportation lists.
>>
>>The list was not released to the public on Wednesday. The foundation said it 
>>is subject to strict German data protection laws, given that it contains 
>>names of people who are still alive.


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Thu Sep 18 19:05:34 EDT 2008
Article: 1940402 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Untold truth vindicating Hitler regarding Stalingrad
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:09:00 -0400, "Patrick Keenan" 
wrote:

>"LIBERATOR"  wrote in message 
>news:923ed9a8-8417-4e6f-873c-3ea0e820a36b@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> Hitler, gave Paulus, choice of "Free judgement", simply to decide what
>> the best choice would be regarding the situation.
>>
>> Sure Hitler failed to keep them supplied,
>
>Which means he abandoned his troops.

That doesn't follow. The sixth army had a nominal strength of 300,000
plus support. Almost 100,000 died in the many weeks of savage
fighting, slightly more than 100,000 were rescued by air, and about
95,000 ended up entering Soviet imprisonment. (About 6,000 of the
95,000 survived the Soviet POW system to return to Germany in the
mid-fifties) The giant aircraft that might have been able to keep an
army of 300,000 supplied from the air today just didn't exist at that
time, although the German air force did make a pretty heroic attempt
to keep the sixth army supplied.

>
>
>> but Hitler did not order a
>> no retreat order.
>
>But he did make sure they couldn't succeed.
>
>> They were surrounded and to retreat, they would have had to fight out
>> of the encirclement, expending supplies without guarantee of breaking
>> through the lines.
>
>And with no realistic expectation of success, because Hitler wouldn't 
>resupply them.
>
>But  more cruelly, after all the propaganda,  why would they expect that 
>their Fuhrer would abandon them?
>
>> So Paulus and the men came up with the "hedgehog" concept, of holding
>> the city and digging in as hedgehogs. Hitler did not order it, he gave
>> "freedom of decision" to Paulus. This has been censored by the Jews
>> after they won the war.
>
>You mean he gave Paulus the same kind of "freedom of decision" you give to a 
>disgraced official, when you hand them a sword or revolver and leave the 
>room.
>
>In the end, Hitler turned out to be the greatest enemy of the German 
>soldier.
>
>-pk


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep 22 20:02:43 EDT 2008
Article: 1940578 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenomenal reenactors of Wehrmacht
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:53:44 -0700, "Protagonist"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:s1l5d41strdq1ogdkg4evdagrrjflcs0nl@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:57:43 -0700, "Protagonist"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Clip is from the movie Stalingrad!
>>
>> That was a pretty pathetic propaganda movie. It really is little more
>> than anti-German hate propaganda and with very little substance.
>
>Don't understand, why Germans hate them self?
>Make movies of them self as loosers.
>I met a few Germans here in the US, surprisingly they're not very proud of 
>their history or culture, mainly from the Nazi era!
>They all blend in, want to be American 100%.
>The largest ethnic group in the US are Germans, but they all speak English, 
>can't tell them apart.
>Second largest  group is Spanish, don't want to learn English, they 
>transforming the US into Mexico, so proud they are..
>If utility companies want to get paid, have to print the bills in Spanish.
>So, why the Germans are so down?
>They afraid of some minority Jews?

Half a century of negative propaganda has done its destructive work.

>JS
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>JS
>>>
>>>"LIBERATOR"  wrote in message
>>>news:a7ae02e2-c695-485a-8a21-e5597546fac8@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>I thought they were real at first.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmIaiQ_UPP8&NR=1
>>>>
>>>> This a movie that was made in Germany?
>>>>
>>>> These guys look like real soldiers. Perhaps Germany is secretly
>>>> training their Bundswehr as legit Wehrmacht & SS.
>>>>
>>>> When Spielberg does his movies to revise history, he's going to want
>>>> to hire these guys for SS in his movie. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:53 EDT 2008
Article: 1940882 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Answer #2:  Obersturmfuhrer Krone is not satisfied with Auschwitz's number of muffles in a camp of 230,000 inmates
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 10:32:08 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article , ZULU   wrote:
>
>> a-little-sanity wrote:
>
>>> "The accused shall not be punished because of the actions
>>> against the Jews as such.  The Jews have to be exterminated
>>>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> and none of the Jews that were killed is any great loss.  Although
>>> the accused should have recognized that the extermination of
>>>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> the Jews was the duty of Kommandos which were set up especially
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> for this purpose,  he should be excused for considering himself
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> to have the authority to take part in the extermination of Jewry
>>> himself."  --  from the verdict of the Supreme SS and Police Court,
>>> in the case of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Max Taubner,  24 of May 1943.
>>> Quoted from "The Good Old Days",  E. Klee,  W. Dressen,  V. Riess,
>>> The Free Press,  NY,  1988,  pages 196-207.
>>> 
>>> By the way,  do you know who Hans Frank was?
>
>> WOW, send it immediately to the intentionalists, they can 
>> really shut up definitely the functionalists scholars with 
>> that bomb!!!
>
>Can you please stop behaving like a damned idiot,  and deal
>with the evidence?  Thank you.

The rantings of a nothing court do not constitute "evidence". A law,
properly promulgated in the Reichstag, provided with a budget, and set
up with completion targets would be evidence. None of that exists.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:53 EDT 2008
Article: 1940883 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fake Quotes from TALMUD - IS Jewish people an invention ?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
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On Sat, 20 Sep 2008 09:05:12 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"jgarbuz"  wrote in message 
>news:142b45f9-0b67-461d-9cc3-c21c5d39c057@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 19, 1:33 am, "B.H. Cramer" 
>wrote:
>> "DoD"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:daff3a89-7022-4fe1-a1c6-d5e53ff40029@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 18, 6:54 pm, dsharavi  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > > >> > On Sep 12, 1:38 pm, "V"  wrote:
>> > > >> >>6. Yebhamoth 11b:"Sexual intercourse with a little girl is
>> > > >> >>permitted if
>> > > >> >>she
>> > > >> >>is three years of age."
>> > > >> > The reference should be to Ketubot 11b, concerning betrothals.
>> > > > On Sep 18, 7:28 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> > > >> See what "The American Council for Judaism" has to tell:
>> > > >> It Is Time to Confront the Exclusionary Ethnocentrism in Jewish
>> > > >> Sacred
>> > > >> Literature
>> > > > How nice! Another posting from David Duke's KKK site.
>>
>> > On Sep 18, 7:45 pm, "Truth Will Out" 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > How desperate you are. Duke is not a member of KKK.
>>
>> > Are you?
>>
>> > >His site is not a KKK site.
>>
>> > It sounds it. So do your posts.
>> >Most likely this guy is kkkramer in drag.
>>
>> You turds need to believe that, doodoodumbkunt. The fact there are many,
>> many like me in the world causes you great discomfort.<
>
>>Well, by definition, half of all people are of below average IQ, so
>>50% of the world's population is lacking in intellect. Those are your
>>natual followers. THe stupid and uneducated. In short, the Muslims and
>>the trailer trash neo Nazis.
>>Fortunately, at least until recently, we Jews were so far ahead that
>>they posed no genuine threat. Unfortunately, there are Jewish traitors
>>who have given your ilk ammunition to use against us. So they are the
>>true threat, and not you and your Islamofascist and neo Nazi trash.
>
>What a load of b'ollocks.
>
>It is people such as you, garbageguz, who provide all the ammunition needed 
>to use against you. But you're too fucking stupid to understand that.
>
Garbageguz is a one-man anti-semitism machine. Where anti-Jewish
sentiment didn't exist prior to a visit by garbageguz, it certainly
will afterwards.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:54 EDT 2008
Article: 1940884 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fake Quotes from TALMUD - IS Jewish people an invention ?
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 19:27:19 -0700 (PDT), jgarbuz
 wrote:

>On Sep 19, 7:05 pm, "B.H. Cramer" 
>wrote:
>> "jgarbuz"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:142b45f9-0b67-461d-9cc3-c21c5d39c057@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Sep 19, 1:33 am, "B.H. Cramer" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > "DoD"  wrote in message
>>
>> >news:daff3a89-7022-4fe1-a1c6-d5e53ff40029@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Sep 18, 6:54 pm, dsharavi  wrote:
>>
>> > > > >> > On Sep 12, 1:38 pm, "V"  wrote:
>> > > > >> >>6. Yebhamoth 11b:"Sexual intercourse with a little girl is
>> > > > >> >>permitted if
>> > > > >> >>she
>> > > > >> >>is three years of age."
>> > > > >> > The reference should be to Ketubot 11b, concerning betrothals.
>> > > > > On Sep 18, 7:28 am, ZULU  wrote:
>> > > > >> See what "The American Council for Judaism" has to tell:
>> > > > >> It Is Time to Confront the Exclusionary Ethnocentrism in Jewish
>> > > > >> Sacred
>> > > > >> Literature
>> > > > > How nice! Another posting from David Duke's KKK site.
>>
>> > > On Sep 18, 7:45 pm, "Truth Will Out" 
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> > > > How desperate you are. Duke is not a member of KKK.
>>
>> > > Are you?
>>
>> > > >His site is not a KKK site.
>>
>> > > It sounds it. So do your posts.
>> > >Most likely this guy is kkkramer in drag.
>>
>> > You turds need to believe that, doodoodumbkunt. The fact there are many,
>> > many like me in the world causes you great discomfort.<
>> >Well, by definition, half of all people are of below average IQ, so
>> >50% of the world's population is lacking in intellect. Those are your
>> >natual followers. THe stupid and uneducated. In short, the Muslims and
>> >the trailer trash neo Nazis.
>> >Fortunately, at least until recently, we Jews were so far ahead that
>> >they posed no genuine threat. Unfortunately, there are Jewish traitors
>> >who have given your ilk ammunition to use against us. So they are the
>> >true threat, and not you and your Islamofascist and neo Nazi trash.
>>
>> What a load of b'ollocks.
>>
>> It is people such as you, garbageguz, who provide all the ammunition needed
>> to use against you. But you're too fucking stupid to understand that.<
>
>Nah, all I  understand clearly is that you're scum.

Numerous people have said the same thing of Jews. Why is bigotry right
for you and wrong for them, garbageguz?



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:54 EDT 2008
Article: 1940885 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bayern: Prozess gegen bereits verurteilten Kriegsverbrecher
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: 
References: <1gxg4ssa8nd25$.6aar4guv54hu.dlg@40tude.net>  <80575089-aa23-4237-94de-fd561472b164@w24g2000prd.googlegroups.com> <48CF61AF.97958686@yahoo.com>   <48CFD5A8.6535760C@yahoo.com>  <48D20CD5.1A29360E@yahoo.com>  <48D2E025.9D54007@yahoo.com> 
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:08:47 +0100, Erika Ciesla 
wrote:

>
>Carla Schneider schrieb:
>> Erika Ciesla wrote:
>>> Carla Schneider schrieb:
>>> > Erika Ciesla wrote:
>>> >> Carla Schneider schrieb:
>
>
>>> >> > Ausser natuerlich die Morde die nach Kriegsende an der Deutschen Zivilbevoelkerung
>>> >> > in der Tschechoslowakei im Zunge der Vertreibung begangen wurden - die waren
>>> >> > sofort verjaehrt - Amnestie.
>>> >>
>>> >> Was willst Du mir damit sagen?
>>> >>
>>> >> Sollen wir die Mörder nun laufen lassen, nur weil wir der anderen Mörder
>>> >> nicht habhaft wurden?
>>> >
>>> > Das Problem ist nicht das habhaft werden, die Italiener
>>> > haben diesen Deutschen auch verurteilt obwohl sie wussten
>>> > dass sie ihn nicht bekommen. Es geht darum dass Deutsche Kriegsverbrecher
>>> > auch nach 60 Jahren noch verfolgt werden, waehrend die Kriegsverbrecher
>>> > aller anderen an diesem Krieg beteiligten nicht verfolgt wurden - wenn sie auf
>>> > der Seite der Sieger standen.
>>> 
>>> Hallo Carla, bist Du noch da? Für die Jurisprudenz anderer Länder sind
>>> wir a) nicht zuständig und haben wir b) nur einen gaanz ganz kleinen
>>> Einflu�Y.
>> 
>> Darum geht es ja auch nicht. Die deutsche Justiz koennte ja solche
>> Taeter verfolgen so wie die Italienische Justiz Deutsche verfolgen kann.
>
>�K�nnte� ist gut! Die deutsche Justiz hat ja ein halbes Jahrhundert lang 
>nicht einmal die eigenen T�ter verfolgt. Das erstemal, da� die deutsche 
>Justiz die Verbrechen der Nazis �berhaupt mal zur Kenntnis nahm, das war 
>mitte der 60er Jahre (der Auschwitz-Proze� von 1963/65), zwanzig Jahre 
>nach Kriegsende; dazwischen galt das Prinzip der drei Affen.
>
>>> Im �brigen darf ich Dich nochmal daran erinnern, da� die Straftaten der
>>> anderen V�lker stattfanden *nachdem* sie Opfer deutscher Gewalt wurden,
>>> oder dumm gesagt: h�tten wir kein Unrecht getan, so w�re auch uns kein
>>> Unrecht widerfahren. 
>> 
>> Bei den meisten dieser Faellen gingen Morde durch "Partisanen" vorraus.
>
>Auch damit h�tten wir kein Problem gehabt, wenn wir dort nicht 
>hingegangen und Schei�e gebaut h�tten. Vergi� bitte niemals die kausale 
>Reihenfolge: egal was die anderen taten, sie erwiderten nur das, was wir 
>ihnen antaten.

Das ist reiner Unsinn. Die Partisanen waren Verbrecher im Dienste der
Kommunisten.

>
>Im �brigen darf ich Dich dar�ber in Kenntnis setzen, da� der Partisan 
>ein Combatant im Sinne des Kriegsrechts ist, vorausgesetzt er ist als 
>solcher zu erkennen, n�mlich damit man in von den Zivilisten 
>unterscheiden kann.

Das Kriegsrecht ist ganz klar da� Partisanen genauso wie Piraten sind.
Sie geh�ren sofort erschossen.

> Er mu� hierzu keineswegs eine vollst�ndige Kluft 
>(AKA: Uniform) tragen, ein gemeinsames Abzeichen (zum Beispiel ein roter 
>Stern an der M�tze) ist hierf�r ausreichend. Daraus folgt 
>notwendigerweise auch, da� gestellte Partisanen nicht erschossen, 
>sondern nach den Regeln der Genver Konvention wie Kriegsgefangene zu 
>behandeln sind.
>
>Abgesehen davon ist das alles kein Grund, Zivilisten hinzurichten! Da� 
>Soldaten in Feinesland erschossen werden k�nnen, geh�rt sozusagen zum 
>�Berufsrisiko�, damit mu� die Truppe nunmal rechnen.
>
>> Das sind Soldaten die sich als Zivilsten tarnen - das ist illegal, �
>
>*Das* ist illegal, in der Tat. Aber das ist dennoch kein Grund, zum 
>Beispiel ein ganzes Dorf auszurotten, oder �berhaupt irgend welche Leute 
>an die Wand zu stellen. Genau darum geht es aber in diesem Proze�. Es 
>war damals /Folklore/, f�r jeden erschossenen deutschen soldaten zehn 
>Zivilisten zu erschie�en (aus Rache und/oder Abschreckung, auf jeden 
>Fall also Terror gegen zumeist unbeteiligte), und *das*, liebe Carla, 
>ist ebenfalls illegal. Und genau um einen solchen Fall geht es in dem 
>nun anstehenden Proze�.
>
>>> Das mu� in der Jurisprudenz nicht notwendigerweise zum Freispruch der
>>> Sekund�rt�ter f�hren, wird aber ganz sicher als mildernder Umstand
>>> anzurechnen sein.
>
>> In der Tschechei z.B.  war kein Krieg 
>
>Das sagst Du! Ich w�rde es schon als einen kriegerischen Akt verstehen, 
>wenn fremde Truppen mit Gewalt in mein Land einmarschieren, und ich 
>wette, die Tschechen sahen das nicht anders.
>
>> - ausser eben dem illegalen Partisanenkrieg �
>
>� der wie gesagt *nicht* illegal ist, *wenn* die K�mpfer sich als 
>Combatanten kenntlich machen, diese sind dann den Soldaten 
>gleichgestellt. Da� die Wehrmachtsleitung damals (und die braunen 
>Ideologen von heute) das gerne anders s�hen, wei� ich wohl, aber damit 
>kommen sie nicht durch.
>
>Und noch einmal, es ist keine auf gar keinen fall eine Legitimation, 
>Zivilisten b��en zu lassen, auch damit kommen sie nicht durch.
>
>
>Gl�ckauf!
>Erika Ciesla (Mannheim/Deutschland)


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:54 EDT 2008
Article: 1941167 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photo of the skinny, starving inmates at Dachau
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:18:19 -0700, "flaviaR@venizon.net"
 wrote:

>
>"Karl"  wrote in message 
>news:8a03c34a-200b-4adb-a6eb-c13e08f06db6@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>> On 19 Sep., 19:44, "B.H. Cramer"  wrote:
>>> Liberation was very good for them. They doubled their body weight in 
>>> seconds
>>> after liberation.
>>>
>>> http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/BenCramer1/DachauLiberation.gif
>>
>> Then it's off to Israel where they can get paid, paid and paid again.
>
>
>Bgot! Those poor souls were all starved to near death.
>
>That picture was photoshoped to make them look fat and perfectly healthy. 
>It's obvious they could all be fattened U.S. soldiers, dressed in prison 
>garb - the image was staged.

That could be said for a great many of the holocaust� images that are
in popular circulation.
>
>BTW: does anyone know where an anally erotic gal such as myself can get some 
>Astroglide sexual lubricant. The stuff is in short supply here since 
>Hurricane Ike blew in.
>
>Susan 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:54 EDT 2008
Article: 1941168 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 20
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:45:00 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2109080946020001@ke-hupnet132-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> > In article , ZULU  wrote:
>> >
>> >> Eugene Holman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > In article , "B.H. 
>> >> > Cramer"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is that single photo supposed to be a proof of the murder of thousands
>> > of prisoners by nazis?
>> >
>> > There are numerous photographs of the stacked corpses at Klooga:
>> >
>> > http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/Klooga-corpses.GIF
>> >
>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2f/Klooga.jpg/250px-Klooga.jpg
>> > http://www.ghwk.de/2006-neu/klooga.jpg
>> > http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/pic/klooga.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >> I wouldn't say that the nazis didn't kill any prisoner at Klooga but
>> > that savage behavior
>> >> was not observed when SS abandoned other camps including Auschwitz, the
>> > alleged "death
>> >> camp",
>> >
>> > Auschwitz was not a death camp; it was primarily a forced labor camp,
>> > although it had a dedicated extermination division, Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>> 
>> So you say. One of the head Holocaust(tm) propagandists, Wiesel, does not 
>> mention gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>
>So what? David Irving, once an important figure in the revisionist
>movement, states quite emphatically that there were gas chambers at
>Auschwitz and that they were used to kill people.

You don't suppose that it had something to do with trying to avoid
imprisonment for his views. Lots of people in the middle ages
confessed to being witches, although we all know that there is no such
thing, so they couldn't have been witches despite their confessions.
The holocaust industry is all about intimidation and extortion.
>
>Source:
>http://www.24dash.com/news/Communities/2006-12-22-No-remorse-as-defiant-David-Irving-returns-to-UK
>
>
>Speaking at Heathrow Airport last night, Mr Irving said: "On Auschwitz I
>was mistaken. I said that there were no gas chambers, although that was
>strictly true because I later discovered evidence that they were in fact
>just outside the camp.
>
>"But I now accept that there were gas chambers at Auschwitz. On the
>overall question, however, I think that historians have been looking at
>the wrong camps."
>
>He said that the Reinhardt camps were the "real killing centres" but that
>the Nazis had extinguished all traces of them.
>
>
>
>> >
>> >> where a lot of prisoners were find alive in the hospital as well as many
>> > children.
>> >
>> > Thousands of people were indeed abandoned at Auahwitz, but there were
>> > thousands of corpses as well.
>> 
>> Typhus/typhoid deaths.
>
>Typhus, not typhoid. The deaths were from a diapason of factors, from
>disease to hanging to typhus. Few if any of the corpses found at Auschwitz
>when it was liberated, January 27, 1945, would have been from gassing,
>since gassing operations had been stopped in October, 1944 as part of
>Reichsf�hrer-SS Heinrich Himmler's private peace initiative.
>
>> >
>> > Standard German policy was to kill any inmates when a concentration camp
>> > was being liquidated.
>> 
>> I suppose you have verifiable evidence to support this ridiculous statement?
>
>No problem: The testimony below was given at trials in Cologne, West
>Germany during the early 1960s. It concerns the liquidation of the Sobibor
>extermination camp. 
>
>Standard Nazi policy was to liquidate inmates when concentration camps
>were liquidated if they could not be transferred to another camp. This
>makes good sense: they were not going to release them to ravage the
>countryside and exact revenge, nor were they going to assume the burden of
>feeding and housing them as they retreated. There were hundreds of
>post-war trials devoted to specific camps, and accounts of their
>liquidation and the kiulling of siurviving inmates are a dime a dozen. 
>
>Source:
>http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/sobibor/sobiborliquidation.html
>
>
>
>Some days after my arrival in Sobibor some 100 worker- Jews were
>transferred there from Treblinka who were employed in the dismantling and
>clearing up. They were not employed by me.
>�
>In November or December of that year while I was still there, these 100
>Jews were shot. One morning about 7am I saw these Jews come past where I
>was working being led to Camp lll.
>�They were dressed and lined up in several rows. I did not see who was in
>charge of the group. A number of the staff and of the Ukrainian volunteers
>were the escorts.
>�
>I was not required to participate in the executions but from my place of
>work I could hear the shots of the execution squad in Camp lll. In my
>opinion these were not salvos but single shots in Camp lll.
>�
>I also heard from colleagues during the meal time on the same day that
>they had shot these 100 Jews that morning. Afterwards the corpses in Camp
>lll were cremated � I assume this was done in an open field.��
>
>
>At this time there were still about 30 male worker- Jews in the camp who
>were employed on clearing up operations. One day while I was in Sobibor
>these roughly 30 Jews were shot in the area of Camp lll.
>�
>I was not present at these executions as at the time I was busy with
>clearing up duties in Camp l. The execution detail consisted of the old
>members of the camp staff and Ukrainian volunteers.
>�
>During my stay there I only heard shots from the distance. When I left
>Sobibor a few members of the camp staff were still present. I had to
>report to T4 in Berlin � there I was detailed by T4 to spend a week
>clearing up after air raids.
>�
>
>
>
>> 
>> It must have "involved" a shit load more than 1 million people, yougenie. 
>> The yids would have us believe that 1.1m were offed there.
>> 
>
>So would the Poles. Auschwitz was a complex camp, and several millions of
>people passed through it during the more than five years of its existence,
>first as a camp for displaced Poles, then as a transit camp, then as a
>forced labor camp, then as a fcamp with a dedicated extermination
>division.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:55 EDT 2008
Article: 1941169 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 20
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 22:06:40 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>news:holman-2109081245000001@ke-hupnet132-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>> In article , "B.H. Cramer"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message
>>> news:holman-2109080946020001@ke-hupnet132-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>>> > In article , ZULU  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > In article , "B.H.
>>> >> > Cramer"
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Is that single photo supposed to be a proof of the murder of thousands
>>> > of prisoners by nazis?
>>> >
>>> > There are numerous photographs of the stacked corpses at Klooga:
>>> >
>>> > http://isurvived.org/Pictures_iSurvived-4/Klooga-corpses.GIF
>>> >
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2f/Klooga.jpg/250px-Klooga.jpg
>>> > http://www.ghwk.de/2006-neu/klooga.jpg
>>> > http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/pic/klooga.jpg
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I wouldn't say that the nazis didn't kill any prisoner at Klooga but
>>> > that savage behavior
>>> >> was not observed when SS abandoned other camps including Auschwitz, 
>>> >> the
>>> > alleged "death
>>> >> camp",
>>> >
>>> > Auschwitz was not a death camp; it was primarily a forced labor camp,
>>> > although it had a dedicated extermination division, Auschwitz-Birkenau.
>>>
>>> So you say. One of the head Holocaust(tm) propagandists, Wiesel, does not
>>> mention gas chambers at Auschwitz.
>>
>> So what? David Irving, once an important figure in the revisionist
>> movement, states quite emphatically that there were gas chambers at
>> Auschwitz and that they were used to kill people.
>
>He wasn't there, stupid person.
>
>You really need to get over this unhealthy obsession with Irving.

Obviously the holocaust� industry found Irving threatening. They
always try to silence those they find threatening. That is why
intimidation and extortion are the stock-in-trade of the holocaust�
industry.

> Or are you 
>Skunky Evans in drag?
>
>Why have you ignored commenting on these video clips, yougenie?
>
>http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/Buchenwald/
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Mon Sep 22 20:04:55 EDT 2008
Article: 1941172 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 20
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:51:35 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>In article , "B.H. Cramer"
> wrote:
>
>> "Eugene Holman"  wrote in message 
>> news:holman-2109081245000001@ke-hupnet132-27.hupnet.helsinki.fi...
>
>
>> > So what? David Irving, once an important figure in the revisionist
>> > movement, states quite emphatically that there were gas chambers at
>> > Auschwitz and that they were used to kill people.
>> 
>> He wasn't there, stupid person.
>
>In case you haven't heard, David Irving is nominally a historian.

He is probably a better historian than the bought-and-paid-for
"historians" that pander to the holocaust� industry.


>Historians are people whose area of expertise involves reconstructing
>situations that existed in the past, usually in places they themselves
>never were.
>
>Additionally, we all know that you dismiss as irrelevant or worse the
>testimony of people such as the inhabitants of Halabja who saw Iraqi air
>force airplanes dropping the cocktail of poison gas on their city, the
>more than fifty people who say an American Airlines aircraft crash into
>the Pentagon, as well as Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess and Auschwitz
>Sonderkommando member Henryk Tauber.
>
>For your systems of epistemology and heuristics, being there is part of
>the problem, not part of the solution.
>
>> 
>> You really need to get over this unhealthy obsession with Irving. Or are you 
>> Skunky Evans in drag?
>> 
>> Why have you ignored commenting on these video clips, yougenie?
>> 
>> http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/Buchenwald/
>
>Because they are too inane to merit comment.
>
>Regards,
>Eugene Holman


From ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca Mon Sep 22 20:04:56 EDT 2008
Article: 1940578 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Phenomenal reenactors of Wehrmacht
Reply-To: ebersdorf2@sympatico.ca
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On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 02:53:44 -0700, "Protagonist"
 wrote:

>
>"Johannes von Ebersdorf"  wrote in message 
>news:s1l5d41strdq1ogdkg4evdagrrjflcs0nl@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:57:43 -0700, "Protagonist"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>Clip is from the movie Stalingrad!
>>
>> That was a pretty pathetic propaganda movie. It really is little more
>> than anti-German hate propaganda and with very little substance.
>
>Don't understand, why Germans hate them self?
>Make movies of them self as loosers.
>I met a few Germans here in the US, surprisingly they're not very proud of 
>their history or culture, mainly from the Nazi era!
>They all blend in, want to be American 100%.
>The largest ethnic group in the US are Germans, but they all speak English, 
>can't tell them apart.
>Second largest  group is Spanish, don't want to learn English, they 
>transforming the US into Mexico, so proud they are..
>If utility companies want to get paid, have to print the bills in Spanish.
>So, why the Germans are so down?
>They afraid of some minority Jews?

Half a century of negative propaganda has done its destructive work.

>JS
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>>JS
>>>
>>>"LIBERATOR"  wrote in message
>>>news:a7ae02e2-c695-485a-8a21-e5597546fac8@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>>>>I thought they were real at first.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmIaiQ_UPP8&NR=1
>>>>
>>>> This a movie that was made in Germany?
>>>>
>>>> These guys look like real soldiers. Perhaps Germany is secretly
>>>> training their Bundswehr as legit Wehrmacht & SS.
>>>>
>>>> When Spielberg does his movies to revise history, he's going to want
>>>> to hire these guys for SS in his movie. 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 19:03:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1941340 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 20
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:52:48 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article <9mafd4hmevtvmgi9a70ga31ulv34fus0m3@4ax.com>,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 08:51:35 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
>> Holman) wrote:
>
>>> In case you haven't heard, David Irving is nominally a historian.
>
>> He is probably a better historian than the bought-and-paid-for
>> "historians" that pander to the holocaust� industry.
>
>All the following are statements Irving made during
>the libel trial he initiated (and lost) against Lipstadt
>and Penguin:
>
>http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day001.htm
>
>   "I have never held myself out to be a Holocaust expert, nor
>have I written books about what is now called the Holocaust."
>
>   "I have done my best to prepare the case that follows, but
>I respectfully submit that I do not have any duty to become an
>expert on the Holocaust, my Lord."
>
>   "I have never claimed to be a Holocaust historian. As I have
>said, I have no written no book about the Holocaust. I have written
>no article about it. If I have spoken about it, it is usually
>because somebody has asked me a question, I have been questioned
>about it. On such occasions I have emphasised my lack of expertise
>and I have expatiated only upon those areas with which I am familiar."
>
>http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/transcripts/day002.htm:
>
>   "Now, you heard me say in my opening statement, Mr Rampton,
>that I am not an expert on the Holocaust. What I would now say
>would be a figure without any value whatsoever."
>
>   "Q. [Rampton] What you do you say about Sobibor, Treblinka,
>Belzec and Chelmno?"
>
>   "A. [Irving] Nothing at all. I am not an expert."

His books don't generally use the term "holocaust". Irving has always
addressed specific issues like Auschwitz or the political background
to events of the period.

Naturally, for the holocaust industry, anybody who disputes any
portion of the holocaust� story is a heretic (= denier). The industry
has made English into a kind of new-speak. There is a difference
between a non-believer and a denier of something.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 19:03:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1941342 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Calendar: September 20
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:54:28 +0000 (UTC), a-little-sanity,  please
 wrote:

>In article ,
>Johannes von Ebersdorf   wrote:
>
>> Obviously the holocaust� industry found Irving threatening. They
>> always try to silence those they find threatening.
>
>Fool.  It was Irving who sued Prof. Lipstadt,  in order to
>silence her.

Libel suits are generally unwise, since they are hard to win and they
just give more publicity to the lies that were the reason for the suit
in the first place.

Lipstadt made outrageous statements in some of her publications in
order to produce the effect of having Irving take her to court. She
had access to a virtually bottomless pit of money, whereas Irving
didn't.

Besides, there are a hundred reasons that people can lose court cases
quite apart from the merits of their case. Courts in many countries
are under the thumb of local notables that control the outcomes.
Galileo also lost his case in court while the Roman Church won with
its ridiculous religious fables. Courts are Alice-in-wonderland
environments where almost anything can happen.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 19:03:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1941346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac - I.G. Farben: The Nuremberg Indictment
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:33:14 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>BBBWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
>ANOTHER whopper for my files, faigelah.

The Americans broke up I.G. Farben in order to make their own firm,
E.I. du Pont de Nemours into the world's leading chemical concern. It
was only short-term, however, since by 1960 all three of the major
fragments of I.G. Farben, namely H�chst, Bayer, and BASF had surpassed
du Pont in size and significance.

Like most American stories, the I.G. Farben yarn doesn't make much
sense.

>
>
>
>"Kenneth McVay OBC"  wrote in message 
>news:YdudnWHrQOp9OUrVnZ2dnUVZ_tbinZ2d@vex.net...
>> Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.003
>> Last-modified: 1993/06/01
>>
>>   The indictment brought against the I.G. Farben defendants at
>>   Nuremberg "...was a catalogue of Nazi inhumanities in which the I.G.
>>   defendents played a part, particularly in the most notorious of all
>>   extermination centers, Auschwitz."
>>
>>   "All of the defendents, acting through the instrumentality of I.G...
>>   participated in ...the enslavement of concentration camp
>>   inmates...the use of prisoners of war in war operations...and the
>>   mistreatment, terrorization, torture, and murder of enslaved persons.
>>   In the course of these activities, millions of persons were uprooted
>>   from their homes, deported, enslaved, ill-treated, terrorized,
>>   tortured, and murdered.
>>
>>   ...
>>
>>   Farben, in complete defiance of all decency and human considerations,
>>   abused its slave workers by subjecting them, among other things, to
>>   excessively long, arduous, and exhausting work, utterly disregarding
>>   their health or physical condition. The sole criterion of the right
>>   to live or die was the production efficiency of said inmates. By
>>   virtue of inadequate rest, inadequate food, (which was given to
>>   inmates while in bed at the barracks), and because of inadequate
>>   quarters (which consisted of a bed of polluted straw, shared by from
>>   two to four inmates), many died at their work or collapsed from
>>   serious illness there contracted. With the first signs of a decline
>>   in the production of any such workers, although caused by illness or
>>   exhaustion, such workers would be subjected to the well-known
>>   'Selektion.' 'Selektion,' in its simplest definition, meant that if,
>>   upon a cursory examination, it appeared that the inmate would not be
>>   restored within a few days to full productive capacity, he was
>>   considered expendable and was sent to the 'Birkenau' camp of
>>   Auschwitz for the customary extermination. The meaning of 'Selektion'
>>   and 'Birkenau' was known to everyone at Auschwitz and became a matter
>>   of common knowledge.
>>
>>   The working conditions at the Farben Buna plant were so severe and
>>   unendurable that very often inmates were driven to suicide by either
>>   dashing through the guards and provoking death by rifle shot, or
>>   hurling themselves into the high-tension electrically-charged barbed
>>   wire fences. As a result of these conditions, the labor turnover in
>>   the Buna plant in one year amounted to at least 300 percent. Besides
>>   those who were exterminated and committed suicide, up to and
>>   sometimes over 100 persons died at their work every day from sheer
>>   exhaustion. All depletions occasioned by extermination and other
>>   means of death were balanced by replacement with new inmates. Thus,
>>   Farben secured a continuous supply of fresh inmates in order to
>>   maintain full production.
>>
>>   Farben's conduct at Auschwitz can be best described by a remark of
>>   Hitler [sic; should be Himmler]: 'What does it matter to us? Look
>>   away if it makes you sick.'>   Carl Krauch, et al., filed May 3, 1947>" (Borkin, 138-139)
>>
>>                            Work Cited
>>
>>   Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York:
>>   The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company.
>>
>> -- 
>> The Nizkor Project  -   An electronic Holocaust educational resource
>>    David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
>> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
>>      http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Fri Sep 26 19:03:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1941348 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS members honoured: jews outraged
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On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:58:00 -0700 (PDT), Al Nakba
 wrote:

>On Sep 22, 3:59�pm, Karl  wrote:
>> On 22 Sep., 17:12, Joe Bruno  wrote:
>>
>> > On Sep 22, 1:52�pm, TallHenry  wrote:
>>
>> > > In article <6jq9cdF4hqm...@mid.individual.net>,
>>
>> > > Heinrich  wrote:
>> > > > Organizers bemoaned the dwindling turnout of the event, which has shrunk as
>> > > > more and more veterans die.
>>
>> > > � � � � �Good.
>>
>> > Cowards.They should follow Hitler's example, go down in the
>> > basement,take a Luger and get it over with.
>>
>> The Waffen SS were no cowards you asshole fuck. �They gave you and
>> your Bolshevik ilk hell! �That's really why you hate them so.
>
>Most of them were killing civilians,

Actually, that was more an allied speciality.




> although their tank division in
>Normandy put up a good fight..


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:22 EDT 2008
Article: 1942179 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vonnegut on DresdenCrime
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 17:02:04 -0700 (PDT), Karl
 wrote:

>On 25 Sep., 17:54, "I'll Always Be Here" 
>wrote:
>> Karl  wrote in news:9037f108-9b52-4881-905c-
>> 27662fe9a...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 25 Sep., 00:39, "Vera l'Perks"  wrote:
>> >> On Sep 24, 5:04�pm, Karl  wrote:>http://ent
>> > ertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/boo...
>>
>> >> > The blood of Dresden
>>
>> >> ....
>>
>> >> > There can be no doubt that the allies fought on the side of right
>>
>> >> At this point, the discussion ceases to have meaning. Hitler refused
>> >> to accept that he had led Germany to disaster, and caused FURTHER
>> >> disaster.
>> >> Hitler seemed determined to destroy Germany rather than admit that he
>> >> himself had led the Germans to complete catastrophe.
>>
>> >> The people of Dresden were not alone among Hitler's victims.
>>
>> > That's pretty twisted. �You are in denial and completely ignorant of
>> > world events. �Dresden was bombed by the allies not Hitler. �The
>> > allies burned people in the streets of Dresden, not Hitler. �If you
>> > blame this atrocity on the victims, then you may as well blame all
>> > atrocities on the victims, because every atrocity committed always has
>> > a reason behind it.
>> > You may as well blame the death of those at the WTC on the Americans,
>> > because they support Israel. �etc.
>> > Is that where you are coming from? �Blame the Afghani civilian who got
>> > wasted for being in the wrong place at the wrong time; blame him/her
>> > because somewhere, someone in power thinks the Afghans should be
>> > punished for the attacks on WTC. �Blame Richard Speck's killings on
>> > the victims, because they shouldn't have spent the night carousing.
>> > Sharon Tate? �Why it's her fault of course. �She shouldn't have been
>> > attractive and rich. �Hitler? �He shouldn't have lifted Germany out of
>> > the cesspool she was in. �Serves Dresden right!
>>
>> You're being rather parochial. By the time Dresden was bombed, it had to
>> be clear to any sane person that the war was lost. The allies had a firm
>> foothold on the continent and the Battle of the Bulge had been lost. Had
>> the germans had the good sense to surrender when the allies crossed their
>> border, like they had done some 26 years earlier, countless deaths,
>> injuries and destruction could have been avoided.
>
>If the war was lost, then why did the allies burn and bomb Dresden?
>They committed the atrocity, not the Germans.  If you are saying that
>it was OK, then every atrocity is OK.  There was no need to incinerate
>this city.

It would have made no difference, Karl. Far more people died after the
allied "victory" than during the war. The surrender was the start of
suffering in Germany, not the end. An early surrender would have only
started the suffering earlier.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:23 EDT 2008
Article: 1942180 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vonnegut on DresdenCrime
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On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:39:04 -0700 (PDT), "Vera l'Perks"
 wrote:

>On Sep 24, 5:04�pm, Karl  wrote:
>> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/boo...
>>
>> The blood of Dresden
>....
>
>> There can be no doubt that the allies fought on the side of right
>
>At this point, the discussion ceases to have meaning. Hitler refused
>to accept that he had led Germany to disaster, and caused FURTHER
>disaster.
>Hitler seemed determined to destroy Germany rather than admit that he
>himself had led the Germans to complete catastrophe.
>
>The people of Dresden were not alone among Hitler's victims.

The war wasn't about Hitler, and allied crimes are allied crimes, not
the crimes of Hitler.

The whole war was entirely unnecessary and was largely driven by
America's need for world hegemony. To achieve it, Germany, Britain,
and France had to be destroyed or significantly reduced in power and
influence. WW2 achieved that. The only winners were the American war
profiteers.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:23 EDT 2008
Article: 1942181 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on Finland and the Holocaust (was Re: PING: Eugene Holman)
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On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:47:45 +0300, holman@mappi.helsinki.fi (Eugene
Holman) wrote:

>There was an entire state structure, that of the USSR, behind the Katyn
>deception. The deception has since been publicly acknowledged, resolved,
>and apologized for.

The entire allied "history" of the period is a deception.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1943079 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Tell "Goyim" How They Should Preform Funeral Rights.
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:57:48 -0500, Topaz 
wrote:

>
>In researching Jewish history, the investigator discovers a wide
>variance of written material. Work by authors expressly critical of
>Jews (and they include a surprising number of Jewish commentators,
>mostly "apostates" of one kind or another) is invariably labeled by
>today's political conventions to be "anti-Semitic" in nature. There is
>a large body of such material extending throughout history, written by
>critics wherever Jews were to be found.  Observations about Jewish
>life by non-Jews is startlingly consistent over two thousand years.
>Consistently credible Gentile themes in attacks against Jews include
>Jewish elitism, their insularity and clannishness, their disdain for
>non-Jews, their exploitive and deceptive behavior towards those not
>their own, the suspicion of Jewish national loyalties and allegiance
>to the lands they lived in, excessive Jewish proclivity for money and
>economic domination, and an economic "parasitism" (the concentration
>of Jews in lucrative non-productive fields of finance-usury, money
>lending, etc.-at the expense of non-Jewish communities).
>
>"Hatred for the Jews," Abram Leon writes, "does not date solely from
>the birth of Christianity. Seneca treated the Jews as a criminal race.
>Juvenal believed that the Jews only existed to cause evil for other
>peoples. Quintilian said that Jews were a curse for other people"
>(Leon, 71).
>In 59 BC the Roman statesman Cicero criticized Jewish "clannishness"
>and "influence in the assemblies." In the second century AD Celsus,
>one of Rome's great medical writers, wrote that Jews "pride themselves
>in possessing superior wisdom and disdain for the company of other
>men." Philostratus, an ancient Greek author, believed that Jews "have
>long since risen against humanity itself. They are men who have
>devised a misanthropic life, who share neither food nor drink with
>others." (Cf. Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice, I, iii, 29-32.) The
>great Roman historian Tacitus (A.D. 56-120) declared that "the Jews
>are extremely loyal toward one another, and are always ready to show
>compassion [for their fellow Jews], but toward other people they feel
>only hate and enmity" (Morais, 46).
>
>Centuries later Voltaire's criticism of Jews, in his Essai sur le
>Moeurs, repeated many of the same charges: "The Jewish nation dares to
>display an irreconcilable hatred toward all nations, and revolts
>against all masters; always superstitious, always greedy for the
>well-being enjoyed by others, always barbarous-cringing in misfortune
>and insolent in prosperity."
>"However uncomfortable it is to recognize," says Albert Lindemann,
>"not all those whom historians have classified as anti-Semites were
>narrow bigots, irrational, or otherwise incapable of acts of altruism
>and moral courage. They represented a bewildering range of opinion and
>personality types" (Lindemann, 13). And why is this "uncomfortable
>[for Jews] to recognize?" Because, by even a child's exercise of logic
>and common sense, the common denominator of all such disparate people
>can only be the enduring truths about Jews as each observer
>experienced them in varying historical and cultural circumstances.
>The French Jewish intellectual (and eventual Zionist), Bernard Lazare,
>among many others in history, noted this obvious fact in 1894, long
>before the Nazi persecutions of Jews and resultant institutionalized
>Jewish efforts to deny, or obfuscate, crucial-and central- aspects of
>their history:
>Wherever the Jews settled one observes the development of
>anti-Semitism, or rather anti-Judaism ... If this hostility, this
>repugnance had been shown towards the Jews at one time or in one
>country only, it would be easy to account for the local cause of this
>sentiment. But this race has been the object of hatred with all
>nations amidst whom it settled.
>Inasmuch as the enemies of Jews belonged to diverse races, as
>they dwelled far apart from one another, were ruled by
>different laws and governed by opposite principles; as they had
>not the same customs and differed in spirit from one another,
>so that they could not possibly judge alike of any subject, it
>must needs be that the general causes of anti-Semitism have always
>resided in [the people of] Israel itself, and not in those who
>antagonized it (Lazare, 8).
>Excerpts from from When Victims Rule, online at Jewish Tribal Review.
>http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/wvr.htm
>
>http://www.ihr.org/      http://www.natvan.com
>
>http://www.thebirdman.org     http://www.nsm88.org
>
>http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html     

Jews were disliked in every country where they ever settled. It can't
ALWAYS be the fault of the locals, except in Jewish mythology.



From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:24 EDT 2008
Article: 1943080 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:34:08 -0700 (PDT), Karl
 wrote:

>On Sep 29, 7:10�pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Karl  wrote:
>> > I've never denied the holocaust Matthews. �I question it, as should
>> > everyone.
>>
>> Where have you been at? You're forbidden from questioning any aspect of
>> the jewish version of WW-ll.
>>
>> When a poor little persecuted jew tells you that he was gassed 6-times -
>> you must throw common sense out the window and believe.
>>
>> When jews talk of steam-rooms, mass electrocution chambers, soap and
>> lampshades 'you must believe' even thou no evidence exists to support
>> this lunacy, you must believe, failure to do so will get you labeled as
>> Nazi, Anti-Semite.
>
>You've got that right.  That's the first thing 'they' do when you
>first post here asking reasonable questions.

Practically any question will result in a verbal avalanche of
invective and name-calling by the holocaust� lobby.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:24 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Deniers- Auschwitz Gas Chambers
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:55:41 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Karl"  wrote in message 
>news:0810d9bd-51ba-4236-bcb3-3987368099d2@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>On Sep 29, 7:10 pm, "127.0.0.1"  wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>> Karl  wrote:
>> > I've never denied the holocaust Matthews. I question it, as should
>> > everyone.
>>
>> Where have you been at? You're forbidden from questioning any aspect of
>> the jewish version of WW-ll.
>>
>> When a poor little persecuted jew tells you that he was gassed 6-times -
>> you must throw common sense out the window and believe.
>>
>> When jews talk of steam-rooms, mass electrocution chambers, soap and
>> lampshades 'you must believe' even thou no evidence exists to support
>> this lunacy, you must believe, failure to do so will get you labeled as
>> Nazi, Anti-Semite.
>
>>You've got that right.  That's the first thing 'they' do when you
>>first post here asking reasonable questions.
>
>Dead right.
>
>It's these dickheads who manufacture anti-semites and deniers.
>
You are quite right. It was McVay and McFee who convinced me that the
holocaust� was a political instrument rather than an episode in
history.

Revisionists would present calm rational arguments or questions, only
to be met by hysterical invective and mindless shrieking from McVay,
McFee, and consorts. Verbal interactions with McVay and McFee leave me
with the same unpleasant feeling as inadvertently stepping in dog-shit
in a public park.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1943083 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-The Pink Swastika-Homosexuality in The Nazi Party
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:03:41 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:5d2d8a63-78dc-4cfa-852b-d1e25bf27b5d@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm
>
>You seem to have a fixation for gays, Bruno.
>
>
Poor Bruno is a homophobic imbecile. It seems to be part and parcel of
the package for mindless adherents of the holocaust� cult.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1943085 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-The Pink Swastika-Homosexuality in The Nazi Party
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:03:41 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:5d2d8a63-78dc-4cfa-852b-d1e25bf27b5d@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> http://www.abidingtruth.com/pfrc/books/pinkswastika/html/the_pinkswastika_4th_edition_-_final.htm
>
>You seem to have a fixation for gays, Bruno.
>
>
The nonsensical Pink Swastika has even less credibility than the
National Enquirer. The USA seems to be a bottomless pit in which to
mine historical junk and utter crap.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:25 EDT 2008
Article: 1943091 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: REPOST-The Pink Swastika-Homosexuality in The Nazi Party
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:11:54 -0400, "V"  wrote:

>Excellent thinking..

I'm not so sure about that. Homophobia is part of the superstitious
baggage of Judaism, and it seems interesting that the NSDAP would
incorporate that, along with many racist notions from Judaism, into
their party line.

For some reason, racist notions are fine for Jews, but evil for
Germans. 

Homophobia, like ritual circumcision, are superstitious crap taken
>from Judaism and they should both be rejected by civilized people.
The ancient Germanic tribes had very few rules and regulations. It was
the advent of Christianity with its sexual hangups taken from Judaism,
that saw the beginning of persecution of people whom the ignorant
ancients couldn't easily classify.

The German people are far too intelligent to be held in thrall to
ignorant superstition. That is why the standard Roman formula to
subjugate people failed with Germans. When the Romans felled the local
sacred oak grove, the rather practical Germans simply said "There are
a whole lot more oaks over there". Destroying the local religion
destroyed many other more superstitious people, but it did not work in
Germany.

O Deutschland hoch in Ehren!

>
>"Topaz"  wrote in message 
>news:9uv2e41c2b6jni4ei8q1qh82bpqi244b4p@4ax.com...
>>
>> Heinrich Himmler (Reichsfuhrer SS) said in a speech in 1936 on the
>> subject of homosexuality and execution of Ernst Roehm (which he had
>> engineered): "Two years ago...when it became necessary, we did not
>> scruple to strike this plague with death, even within our own ranks."
>> Himmler closed with these words: "Just as we today have gone back to
>> the ancient Germanic view on the question of marriage mixing different
>> races, so too in our judgement of homosexuality,  a symptom of
>> degeneracy which could destroy our race,  we must return to the
>> guiding Nordic principle: extermination of degenerates"
>>
>>
>> http://www.ihr.org/      http://www.natvan.com
>>
>> http://www.thebirdman.org     http://www.nsm88.org
>>
>> http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html 
>


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1943092 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:00:39 -0700 (PDT), LIBERATOR
 wrote:

>We all know the British won the Battle for Britain, but the reasoning
>we believe is false.
>
>Hitler and Goering wanted peace and were convinced (by spys?) that the
>majority of Britain wanted peace too. So British feeds of information
>kept Goering and Hitler from maximizing the Luftwaffe to critical mass
>believing peace was around the corner, whilst the British were
>maximizing the RAF.
>
>So when the announcement for unconditional surrender was announced to
>Germany, that is when the Luftwaffe increased production allthewhile
>Britain was at max output.
>
>The Luftwaffe was outnumbered and that's why they lost and they were
>outnumbered because Hitler was faulty in his intelligence apparatus
>thus processed false information and made the wrong choices.
>
>But how close was it? How far were the Luftwaffe from winning?

The German authorities made the mistake of taking Churchill's bait and
switching their attack to terror bombing of London in revenge for the
British terrorist attack on Berlin a short time earlier.

The German airforce simply had the wrong equipment for anti-civilian
terrorist bombing. The German airforce was equipped mainly for ground
support of the land forces, not large-scale civilian atrocities from
the air like the allies. Had they continued with trashing British
airfields, there would have been no British fighters in the air to
interfere with them.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:26 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:21:12 -0600, Caduceus 
wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:23:21 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>The war between SU and Nazi Germany was prearranged to eliminate
>>Russia and Germany as potential rivals to the Anglo-American Empire.
>
>Anglo-American empire?  You don't have a CLUE how strong American
>Military muscle is/was.  Back then, like now, the United States was
>the most powerful military force in the world.  Germany never did have
>the ability to invade the United States.  The United State took on
>Germany, Japan, and Italy and WON.  German took on Great Britin, the
>Sovet Union, and the United States, and LOST.  The fact is the United
>States could fight a three front war and won.  Germany fought a three
>front war and lost.  Also, the SS and German troops didn't stand a
>prayer against the United States Marine Corps.

Your analysis is nonsensical. Americans are really full of themselves
and like to present the fable that they won WW2 because of their own
efforts. They didn't.

Without Soviet involvement to tie down most of the German forces, the
USA would not have been able to win. Britain was essentially defeated
by 1941, which is exactly why a second front was needed, a need
conveniently met by the USSR. Without Britain, there would have been
no American terror bombing against civilians in Germany.

Americans, US Marine corps included, are some of the world's most
inept and unprofessional soldiers. They are only successful against
small countries typically with 5% of the U.S. population or fewer. The
much vaunted marines need a massive advantage in men and material to
be successful. In addition, Americans tend to attack civilians because
unarmed people are so much easier to deal with than armed combatants.
Their war against Japan was just a dishonourable orgy of mindless
civilian butchery culminating in the two nuclear attacks, which were
just two further civilian atrocities.

Germany eventually lost because Germany's 84 million inhabitants were
not able to prevail in the long run against enemies with resident
populations of 1250 millions distributed over 53 countries, and with
the virtually limitless resources of their opponents.

As Charles de Gaulle put it when he was given a tour of the remnants
Stalingrad by the Russians: "That glorious nation, that noble
people...". The Russians assumed that he was talking about them, but
he said "Non", it was the Germans that they were able "to come so far
and accomplish so much".

The Americans are a bunch of whining pussies by contrast.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:26 EDT 2008
Article: 1943094 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:14:42 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
 wrote:

>On Sep 29, 7:45�pm, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>> guy wrote:
>> > On 29 Sep, 09:24, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>> >> Caduceus wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:23:21 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
>> >>>  wrote:
>> >>>> The war between SU and Nazi Germany was prearranged to eliminate
>> >>>> Russia and Germany as potential rivals to the Anglo-American Empire.
>> >>> Anglo-American empire? �You don't have a CLUE how strong American
>> >>> Military muscle is/was. �Back then, like now, the United States was
>> >>> the most powerful military force in the world. �Germany never did have
>> >>> the ability to invade the United States. �The United State took on
>> >>> Germany, Japan, and Italy and WON. �German took on Great Britin, the
>> >>> Sovet Union, and the United States, and LOST. �The fact is the United
>> >>> States could fight a three front war and won. �Germany fought a three
>> >>> front war and lost. �Also, the SS and German troops didn't stand a
>> >>> prayer against the United States Marine Corps.
>> >> Where's "SU"?
>>
>> >> Puzzled- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Soviet Union
>>
>> > Guy
>>
>> Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>> Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>> 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>> (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>> in (thankfully).
>> Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>> � that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.

>> You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.

That is the standard American war mythology. Reality is that in later
wars, such as Vietnam and currently Afghanistan and Iraq, the marines
are singularly unimpressive. Their "success" against the Republican
Guards in Iraq was no big miracle given their huge advantage in
material and manpower. The Americans are mainly hot-air-bags.

>>
>> Gonad
>
>You tell those colonials, Gonad, you tell them.:)


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:26 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:20:53 -0600, Caduceus 
wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 05:33:31 -0700 (PDT), "Paul {Hamilton Rooney}"
> wrote:
>
>>Korea
>>Vietnam
>>Somalia
>>Iraq
>>Afghanistan
>
>
>Yep, and I'm damn proud of the work of our troops in all five of them.

If that is the case, then you are your typical American idiot.
American soldiers are cowardly butchers of small children, women,
wedding parties, etc. They have never been a class act. 

The four thousand dead yankee marauders in Iraq are a good thing,
although I would have been much happier if a hundred times this number
had been sent back to their master in hell.

The Americans were partially defeated in Korea. They were totally
defeated in Vietnam. The cowardly pussies couldn't take the heat in
Somalia and they are currently losing in Iraq and in Afghanistan. The
glorious marines are glorious in American mythology only.

>:)


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:27 EDT 2008
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:28:48 -0600, Caduceus 
wrote:

>You have to admit though, they beat the hell out of the Germans during
>World War 1.  I think that is where the Marines got the title Devil Dog
>if I'm not mistaken.

American military efforts in WW1 were of little practical
significance. American money was of great importance to Britain and
France, but the American expeditionary force was a bit of a joke,
except to puffed up self-righteous American buffoons, naturally.

The war ended when it did because the Emperor decided to ignore the
recommendation of Field Marshal Ludendorff, which was "Weiter
k�mpfen", because the Emperor was afraid of various Communist uprising
noises internally. The Bolsheviks got Russia out of the war in 1917,
but various Bolshevik groups had now turned their attention to
fomenting problems within Germany, always a risk when you set
revolutionary discontent into motion in your neighbours.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:27 EDT 2008
Article: 1943100 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:08:32 -0700 (PDT), Honest Aryan
 wrote:

>On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>
>> Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>> Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>> 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>> (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>> in (thankfully).
>> Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>>   that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>> You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>
>      And what exactly did Britain 'win'?

They won the right to be America's foremost vassal state and principal
lackey.



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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:23:04 +0100, Naked Gonad
 wrote:

>Honest Aryan wrote:
>> On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>> 
>>> Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>>> Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>>> 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>>> (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>>> in (thankfully).
>>> Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>>>   that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>>> You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>> 
>>       And what exactly did Britain 'win'?
>> 
>> --
>> Visit the Cybermuseum of BBC War Crimes at:
>>     http://users.bluecarrots.com/rbisto/BBC/BBC.html
>> Admission *FREE* - even for libruls!
>
>
>So, Britain/Australia/Poland/Russia/India/Canada/Norway and
>numerous other countries in the Alliance did nothing did they?

Not according to American buffoons, they didn't.

>
>Gonad


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:28 EDT 2008
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 09:58:28 -0700 (PDT), "David E. Powell"
 wrote:

>On Sep 29, 12:08�pm, Honest Aryan  wrote:
>> On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>>
>> > Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>> > Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>> > 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>> > (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>> > in (thankfully).
>> > Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>> > � that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>> > You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>>
>> � � � And what exactly did Britain 'win'?
>
>You're serious?
>
>The war, of course.

Britain lost her empire, lost her great power standing, and simply
became another lackey of the USA. Britain and France lost as much as
Germany. The only people to benefit from WW2 were the American
financiers and war-profiteers.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:28 EDT 2008
Article: 1943103 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
Message-ID: <4fo4e4ddbm696u0p388n5ng87hm90dhpta@4ax.com>
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:23:23 -0700 (PDT), spitonfoot@googlemail.com
wrote:

>On 29 Sep, 18:15, spitonf...@googlemail.com wrote:
>> On 29 Sep, 17:58, "David E. Powell"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 29, 12:08�pm, Honest Aryan  wrote:
>>
>> > > On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>>
>> > > > Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>> > > > Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>> > > > 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>> > > > (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>> > > > in (thankfully).
>> > > > Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>> > > > � that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>> > > > You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>>
>> > > � � � And what exactly did Britain 'win'?
>>
>> > You're serious?
>>
>> > The war, of course.
>>
>> Quote from 
>> The Allies, led by the United Kingdom and, until its defeat, France,
>> were joined in the European theatre by the Soviet Union in June 1941
>> and by the United States in December 1941. the Asia-Pacific theater,
>> the Allies were led by the Republic of China from the invasion of
>> China by Japan in 1937 and then joined by the United States and
>> British Commonwealth following Japanese attacks.
>>
>> mobyduck
>
>Another quote from 
>
>The Allies of World War II were the countries officially opposed to
>the Axis powers during the Second World War. Within the ranks of the
>Allied powers, the British Empire, the Union of Soviet Socialist
>Republics, and the United States of America were known as "The Big
>Three".
>
>You yanks think you did it all by yourselves, how about a bit of
>credit for your allies!

Americans have never had any respect for their allies or anybody else,
for that matter. 

>
>mobyduck


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:28 EDT 2008
Article: 1943104 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 03:30:29 -0600, Caduceus 
wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>Honest Aryan wrote:
>> On 29 Sep, 10:45, Naked Gonad  wrote:
>> 
>>> Aren't you forgetting Britain/Poland/The Ghurkas etc?
>>> Against all the odds and being heavily outnumbered by
>>> 6 to 1, Britain won the battle of Britain against Germany
>>> (just) on their own. This was just prior to America joining
>>> in (thankfully).
>>> Whilst appreciating the USA's involvement, you seem to forget
>>>   that hundreds of thousands of Britons lost their lives.
>>> You seem to think that the States did it all on their own.
>> 
>>       And what exactly did Britain 'win'?
>> 
>> --
>> Visit the Cybermuseum of BBC War Crimes at:
>>     http://users.bluecarrots.com/rbisto/BBC/BBC.html
>> Admission *FREE* - even for libruls!
>
>Germany sure didn't win anything.  In fact, it's well over a century
>when they won a war.  In fact, I don't recount them ever winning a war.

LOL

Only a stupid American could be that stupid.

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From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:29 EDT 2008
Article: 1943109 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Quote From Barack Obama
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:27:55 GMT, "Truth Will Out"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:b3b8cf1e-adec-404b-b6c4-a811fffbcba2@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>> "My Uncle helped Patton liberate Auschwitz"
>>
>>
>> According to my source on another newsgroup, he said it twice.
>>
>> One problem: Patton didn't liberate Auschwitz. Auschwitz was in
>> Poland. It was liberated by the Soviets.
>
>All the supposed *death camps* were in areas liberated by the Soviets. 
>That's why there are so many lies about the Holocaust.
>
>
In addition, many of these "death camps" were kept in operation by the
USSR/Poland/Czechoslovakia well into the postwar period, so "bone
finds" hardly prove much of anything except that SOMEBODY died there
at SOME time.


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:29 EDT 2008
Article: 1943110 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Quote From Barack Obama
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:46:50 +1000, "B.H. Cramer"
 wrote:

>
>"Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>news:SHfEk.4054$891.1503@newsfe07.iad...
>>
>> "Truth Will Out"  wrote in message 
>> news:vgfEk.1851$sc2.479@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message 
>>> news:b3b8cf1e-adec-404b-b6c4-a811fffbcba2@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> "My Uncle helped Patton liberate Auschwitz"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> According to my source on another newsgroup, he said it twice.
>>>>
>>>> One problem: Patton didn't liberate Auschwitz. Auschwitz was in
>>>> Poland. It was liberated by the Soviets.
>>>
>>> All the supposed *death camps* were in areas liberated by the Soviets. 
>>> That's why there are so many lies about the Holocaust.
>>
>> No. You tell those lies.
>
>Idiot. The soviet yids created the Holocaust(tm) story.

The holocaust� was indeed created in Moscow.

>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> 


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:29 EDT 2008
Article: 1943111 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE EVOLUTIONIST TRADITION OF CONCEALING FOSSILS
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:59:29 -0700 (PDT), Mohamed75
 wrote:

>The reason is that the 530-million-year-old fossils in question
>definitively refute and eliminate evolution. These fossils belong to a
>time known as the Cambrian Period. Yet according to evolutionists that
>was a time when nothing should have been alive apart from single-
>celled life forms, or a few multi-celled ones devoid of complex, basic
>structures. According to the myth of evolution, it was impossible for
>there to be anything else.

LOL

Creationists generally say that the earth is only about six thousand
years old, so how can one have 530 million year-old fossils?


From ebersdorf@gmail.com Tue Sep 30 17:30:30 EDT 2008
Article: 1943112 of alt.revisionism
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From: Johannes von Ebersdorf 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Battle for Britain the world was deceived!
Reply-To: ebersdorf@gmail.com
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On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:23:21 -0700 (PDT), Colonel Sanders
 wrote:

>On Sep 29, 5:00�pm, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>> We all know the British won the Battle for Britain, but the reasoning
>> we believe is false.
>>
>> Hitler and Goering wanted peace and were convinced (by spys?) that the
>> majority of Britain wanted peace too. So British feeds of information
>> kept Goering and Hitler from maximizing the Luftwaffe to critical mass
>> believing peace was around the corner, whilst the British were
>> maximizing the RAF.
>>
>> So when the announcement for unconditional surrender was announced to
>> Germany, that is when the Luftwaffe increased production allthewhile
>> Britain was at max output.
>>
>> The Luftwaffe was outnumbered and that's why they lost and they were
>> outnumbered because Hitler was faulty in his intelligence apparatus
>> thus processed false information and made the wrong choices.
>>
>> But how close was it? How far were the Luftwaffe from winning?
>
>The British had radar stations, the Nazis knew they were sending
>Germans to their certain death as that's what the British hired them
>to do.

British air fleets were largely wiped out over Germany as well, and
there is no way that Britain would have been able to sustain these
losses over the long term without massive American help.

>
>Stalin was a British trained stooge too.
>
>The war between SU and Nazi Germany was prearranged to eliminate
>Russia and Germany as potential rivals to the Anglo-American Empire.

Actually, the USA also wanted to eliminate Britain as a power player
also, and they were successful. When WW2 concluded, the British Empire
was history and Britain was just another American client-state.

Had the German authorities sat on their hands in June of 1941, they
would have exposed Germany to a Soviet invasion by July of 1941, and
the mass rapes and murders of the indigenous population would have
happened in 1941 rather than in 1944 and later. Up until June of 1941,
Germany had not even ordered general mobilization of the armed forces.
The order for general mobilization did not go out until 24-Jun-41. So
much for the silly allied conquer-the-world propaganda. Being at war
with a country, the USSR, that had three times your own population was
a major challenge. World hegemony was an American aim, and they
actually managed to pull it off, although it does seem to be
unravelling as we speak.
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