The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/vicksell.ross/1994/vicksell.0894



Article 14535 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!agate!darkstar.UCSC.EDU!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Postwar European Infant Mortality Statistics
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:   <3133am$60p@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 03:21:19 GMT
Lines: 21

An aside.  Norwegian infant mortality rates seemed essentially uneffected 
by the war.  I conjecture that this was because the adults ate primarily 
fish they caught and game they killed (no vegetarians they!), and had 
healthy babies.

By the way, what does this say about the oppressive Nazi occupation?  
(There was a wartime movie about it, called "The Moon is Down.")

                year      Infant mortality/1000
                -----     ----------------------
                1939         37
                1940         39
                1941         43
                1942         36
                1943         35
                1944         37
                1945         36
                1946         35
                1947         35

             Ross Vicksell


Article 43934 of alt.conspiracy:
Xref: oneb alt.conspiracy:43934 soc.history:27733
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,soc.history
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!tfs.com!fester
From: fester@tfs.com (Michael Fester)
Subject: Re: Hiroshima
Message-ID: 
Organization: TRW Financial Systems, Oakland, CA
References:  <31gfoh$24a@search01.news.aol.com> <1994Jul31.171434.853@midway.uchicago.edu>
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 14:53:14 GMT
Lines: 44

In article <1994Jul31.171434.853@midway.uchicago.edu>,
Ted Frank  wrote:
>In article <31gfoh$24a@search01.news.aol.com> jamesoberg@aol.com (JamesOberg) writes:
>>Getting serious, it seems we need prepare for the new ideological assault
>>on US War Crimes for nuking peaceful civilians on a country that was
>>trying hard to surrender. Baloney!
>
>I'm under the impression that Japan was willing to conditionally
>surrender, so long as the Emperor could remain in place.  True or
>false?  If true, given that we did let Hirohito stay in place after
>the unconditional surrender, there may be a point, though I tend to
>agree with the Paul Fussell essay on the subject. 

Why not just read a BOOK on the subject?

The Japanese surrendered under the terms offered at Potsdam, period. 
AFTER Nagasaki, they sent a message to the US, saying they would surrender
so long as the status of the Emporer was not compromised. Truman immediately
(well, couple hours later) sent a reply saying, roughly "the status of the
Emporer shall be subject to the judgement of the Supreme Allied Commander" of
the Occupation forces.

There was NO UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER, as even a passing reading of the
Potsdam Declaration indicates. There was an unconditional MILITARY surrender,
which was quite a different thing.

>>One overlooked historical fact. Operation Olympic, the Kyushu invasion,
>>was aiming for a Nov 3-4 "D-Day". Of course, when that date came, there
>>was no invasion fleet massing, it wasn't needed. On November 1, my dad
>>(who was assigned to an invasion support transport ship) was in Okinawa,
>>in Naha harbor, when the worst typhoon of the century hit the area dead
>>on. 
>
>Wouldn't they simply postpone the invasion if there was a typhoon?

More to the point, WHY would we be massing an invasion fleet in Novemeber? The
US had ALREADY gotten signed surrender papers in September?

Mike
-- 
DISCLAIMER - These opoi^H^H "damn", ^H, [esc :q :qq !q "shit!" :Q! "Whaddya
mean, Not an editor command?" :wq ^C^C^C !STOP ^bye ^quit :quit! !halt ...
^ESC :wq :w! :wq! :qq!! ^STOP [HALT!   HALT!!! "Why's it doing this?" :stopit!
:wwqq!! ^Z ^L ^ESC STOP  :bye  bye  bye! "Hey, what's this red button d..."


Article 14581 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!uhog.mit.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Postwar European Infant Mortality Statistics
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Mon, 1 Aug 1994 03:21:19 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	<3133am$60p@agate.berkeley.edu> 
Date: Mon, 1 Aug 1994 22:12:52 GMT
Lines: 19


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>An aside.  Norwegian infant mortality rates seemed essentially uneffected 
>by the war.  I conjecture that this was because the adults ate primarily 
>fish they caught and game they killed (no vegetarians they!), and had 
>healthy babies.
>
>By the way, what does this say about the oppressive Nazi occupation?  


That they didn't ALWAYS kill babies?

Am I close?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 44303 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!psinntp!halon!sybase!jgorris
From: jgorris@sybase.com (Jeff Gorris)
Subject: Re: Hiroshima
Message-ID: 
Sender: usenet@sybase.com
Organization: Sybase, Inc.
References:  <31gfb9$20r@search01.news.aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 1994 22:06:01 GMT
Lines: 29

In article <31gfb9$20r@search01.news.aol.com>, jamesoberg@aol.com (JamesOberg) writes:
|> Haven't heard much lately from the school of thought (to use the term
|> loosely) that insists the Hiroshima blast was a fraud, was actually a
|> firebomb assault timed to coincide with an earthquake, then make believe
|> we had a terror weapon to hold Russians in check, then they had to make
|> believe they had matched us and we couldn't be sure they hadn't, then...  
|> you know how it goes. This is a remarkably fertile ground for such
|> speculation, I wionder if the right seeds haven't been dropped. So, here
|> goes.
|> 
|> One variation was that bombs on test stands DID work but free-falling ones
|> didn't, for some inertial physics reason. Creative!!!
|> 
|> 

A novel called The Jesus Factor explored this theme.

-- 
*************************************************************
- Jeff Gorris
jeff.gorris@sybase.com 
 {pacbell,pyramid,sun,{uunet,ucbvax}!mtxinu}!sybase!jgorris
*************************************************************

"When cryptography is outlawed, 
	bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl".

Disclaimer:
Opinions expressed herein are those of the author, NOT Sybase.


Article 44448 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att-out!cbnewsd!cbnewsc!cbfsb!cbnewsb.cb.att.com!colten
From: colten@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (marc.colten)
Subject: Re: Hiroshima
Message-ID: 
Summary: From a novel
Sender: news@cbfsb.cb.att.com
Organization: AT&T
References:  <31gfb9$20r@search01.news.aol.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 1994 13:12:04 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <31gfb9$20r@search01.news.aol.com>, jamesoberg@aol.com (JamesOberg) writes:
> Haven't heard much lately from the school of thought (to use the term
> loosely) that insists the Hiroshima blast was a fraud, was actually a
> firebomb assault timed to coincide with an earthquake, then make believe
> we had a terror weapon to hold Russians in check, then they had to make
> believe they had matched us and we couldn't be sure they hadn't, then...  
> you know how it goes. This is a remarkably fertile ground for such
> speculation, I wionder if the right seeds haven't been dropped. So, here
> goes.
> 
> One variation was that bombs on test stands DID work but free-falling ones
> didn't, for some inertial physics reason. Creative!!!
> 
> 

Creative enough to come from a novel (I think it was called
"The Jesus Factor" or something like that).  Someone simply
recycled the plot into a "theory".

marc colten



Article 14797 of alt.revisionism:
Xref: oneb alt.revisionism:14797 alt.conspiracy:44671
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: LaRouchies...
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3253gj$h63@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 1994 20:01:45 GMT
Lines: 12

I'm sorry, but I'd like to inject a prosaic note into the proceedings.  
Maybe this has been answered already, but if it has, please indulge me 
and answer it again:

Did the Larouche organization practice credit card fraud; Did they 
make unauthorized changes against peoples' credit cards?

And I'm curious about whether Mr.Crocker has shed all his environmental 
and vegetarian leanings and become a true-blue man-is-the-master-of-creation
Larouchian.

                 Ross Vicksell


Article 44935 of alt.conspiracy:
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: LaRouchies...
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3253is$h8g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <325ps4$2on@news.ycc.yale.edu> <328me0$nr@news1.svc.portal.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Aug 1994 06:08:51 GMT
Lines: 8

I haven't seen anything here about LaRouche's theory of musical pitch.  
He says that C = 2^n herz is not arbitrary but is based on physical 
considerations.  This puts our present A = 440 about a semitone too high.
Unfortunately, I was unable to follow his elaborate explanation of this 
theory.  Can anyone help me out?

           Ross Vicksell
            


Article 45072 of alt.conspiracy:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!rutgers!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu!miavx1!miamiu!schuller
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: LaRouchies...
Message-ID: <94224.094832SCHULLER@MIAMIU.BITNET>
From: Peter M. Schuller 
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 1994 09:48:32 EST
References: <3253is$h8g@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> <325ps4$2on@news.ycc.yale.edu><328me0$nr@news1.svc.portal.com> 
Organization: Miami University - Miami Computing and Information Service
Lines: 47

In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
says:
>
>I haven't seen anything here about LaRouche's theory of musical pitch.
>He says that C = 2^n herz is not arbitrary but is based on physical
>considerations.  This puts our present A = 440 about a semitone too high.
>Unfortunately, I was unable to follow his elaborate explanation of this
>theory.  Can anyone help me out?
>
>           Ross Vicksell
>
Did my post on why does a political organization spend so much time on
music prompt this?
   A VERY PARTIAL reply to my own question is that LaRouche is concerned
to fight for rationality and coherence of the universe--quite in direct
odds with PostModernism and other irrationalisms.

   A short response to your own query:
A.  We must use the well-tempered scale in music.
       (Because:
             1.  "Essentially, life is beautiful, and the quality of deadness
in human existence is ugliness."
             2.  Beauty and life in all their forms are coherent with
the orderings of the Golden Section.  [{The Golden Section is determinative
of the well-tempered scale.]
B.  Given the well-tempered scale, the basic scale (C) is to takes its scalar
with 256because (a) this is perfectly coherent with the registration of
the soprano voice and (b) this geometry is coherent with the geometry (i.e.,
Golden Section set to a scalar of 256 Hertz as a nodal point) of life in
the small (i.e., cellar level--I think,  this is a very old argument by
Ned Rosinski*) and physics in the large: orbits of the
planets in our solar system.  [[Dare I say this concern for a
transinvariant from the cellulardomain to the astronomic is related
to considerations of the Transfinite?]]

        Re (a):
             All human voice is registered (i.e., different quality of
tone for different pitch ranges) by nature.
             The soprano voice (which the vast majority of us have had
at least in our youth) passes register very nicely (between F & F#)
when the well-tempered basic scale is set to C = 256.  {So does the
Tenor voice;  the First Register of the Baritone begins on F#.}

ERGO:  Beautiful singing requires a well-tempered scale whose scalar
is _naturally_ set at C = 256.
-----
* I won't take time now to research this which I read almost 20 years ago.


Article 15132 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!news.hal.COM!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: 
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 19:26:03 GMT
Lines: 14

I was fourteen when the Great Patriotic War ended.  I well remember
America's love affair with Russia.  It certainly wasn't restricted to the
ranks of the CPUSA, not by a long shot. When I brought up, in my eight
grade history class, a Reader's Digest article critical of the USSR, the
reaction of the class ranged from incredulous to indifferent. 

Our high school band used to play all sorts of Russian tunes: The Red 
Cavalry Song, The Russian Sailor's Dance from the Red Poppy, and 
transcription of Shostakovich works.

And don't forget Hollywood, with Mission to Moscow and other Warner Bros. 
classics.

              Ross Vicksell


Article 15134 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Sat, 20 Aug 1994 19:26:03 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
	
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 1994 22:26:42 GMT
Lines: 99


>I was fourteen when the Great Patriotic War ended.  I well remember
>America's love affair with Russia.  It certainly wasn't restricted to the
>ranks of the CPUSA, not by a long shot. When I brought up, in my eight
>grade history class, a Reader's Digest article critical of the USSR, the
>reaction of the class ranged from incredulous to indifferent. 
>
>Our high school band used to play all sorts of Russian tunes: The Red 
>Cavalry Song, The Russian Sailor's Dance from the Red Poppy, and 
>transcription of Shostakovich works.
>
>And don't forget Hollywood, with Mission to Moscow and other Warner Bros. 
>classics.
>
>              Ross Vicksell


I believe you, but so what really?

The USSR that became the US's nemesis mostly emerged after WWII and
much of the imagery so-derived is from Stalin's and subsequent
activity in Eastern and Central Europe.

Previous to this there was certainly a lot of dislike for communism
and marxism per se in the US, but the USSR wasn't particularly viewed
by most as the devil incarnate. It was a foreign land far away,
mostly. Kinda like maybe we view The People's Republic of China today,
we have plenty of complaints but so what else is new? If a Hitler
arose in Asia today no doubt the US and China would have little
trouble allying against him similar to the US/USSR alliance of WWII.

And no doubt someone would be screaming how can we do that given
China's record on this and that but, well, if it really is something
as evil as Hitler was then that would be the situation.

In the same pre-WWII period there was a lot of political distancing by
the US left from USSR and Stalin. The bitter issues were over events
such as the banishment and eventually murder of Trotsky and his
colleagues (Trotsky was assasinated apparently by Stalin's agents in
Mexico), events in the Ukraine (where millions died of famine as a
result of Stalin's brutal and murderous policies there in the early
1930's), etc. The US left had an expression for Stalin: "He BETRAYED
the revolution" (the revolution of Lenin which many idealistic people
had hoped would produce some sort of economic paradise.) Stalin was a
brutal and murderous man and few, even radical American communists,
could reconcile this with their ideals. Calling someone a "Stalinist"
had become fighting words among all but a very few before WWII even
started.

But obviously, from the history, the US generally saw Hitler as a much
worse evil than Stalin. And by the time the US entered WWII and became
determined to overthrow Hitler and his Nazis their potential allies in
Europe were pretty few and far between. England was a small country
even if quite proud and stalwart (and let's face it, brilliant, agree
with them or no), but the sort of resources needed to unhinge Hitler
from practically all of Europe was no small matter. The US had to
consider the fairly desparate situation here. Losing this war and
hence all of Europe was a real possibility, losing the US was
considered a serious possibility with Hitler having marched through
almost all of Europe and Japan in alliance threatening from the far
East. Who was left? The USSR. Go look at a map. I mean what other
choices were there for badly needed allies in 1942?

So it was less a matter of approving Stalin so much as bolstering up
someone (the USSR) who might defeat (or help defeat) Hitler. Hitler
was seen as the ultimate evil. And I don't think that nasty choice was
unjustified. Stalin had not yet become so expansionist, Hitler was
marching into Poland and Czechoslovakia and finally France and Greece
and Holland and Belgium etc. Hitler was viewed as being entirely out
of control and his and his Nazi's bizarre and murderous "race
policies" were not exactly encouraging. He really was the devil
incarnate to most people in the US once they took a good look at him.

What the revisionists appear to be trying to do is to take views of
the USSR mostly developed post-WWII and try to get people to evaluate
the USSR of the WWII period in that Cold War [qlight. This is very
misleading.

For example, without the atom bomb and long range ballistic missiles
and fast jets of post-WWII the USSR was mostly ignorable by the US
other than as a fairly abstract moral issue, particularly a US who
strongly desired an isolationist existence as the US did until they
were finally dragged into WWII.

No, Ross, this kind of stuff falls flat and is fairly transparent and
willfully obtuse about the history of the era. And besides, it's way
too late to even make this case. The USSR is gone five years already
and rapidly fading into the dustbin of history. Playing on Cold War
fears at this late date is folly, even if maybe it did attract some
attention a decade ago. You're stuck in a past that's gone gone gone,
kids entering college in a few weeks can probably barely remember the
USSR. Think about it.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15142 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Revisionist repleis to Michael P. Stein: Who Liked Uncle Joe?
Date: 21 Aug 1994 13:40:32 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <337lgg$lq7@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

Ross Vicksell  wrote:


# Our high school band used to play all sorts of Russian tunes: The Red 
# Cavalry Song, The Russian Sailor's Dance from the Red Poppy, and 
# transcription of Shostakovich works.

Actually, these are quite good. You should also hear "Katyuska" and
"Ochi Churnia". I'll take them over the "Horst Wessel" any day.


-Danny Keren.


Article 15297 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: TO ALL REVISIONISTS:
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: 
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 07:19:38 GMT
Lines: 18

ridley@nucleus.com (Steve Ridley) writes:

>I am curious, are most or any revionists National Socialists? 
>And how did you people begin to think this way about the holocaust.

>Steve
>ridley@nucleus.com

My current political leanings are in the populist direction, but the 
concept of the "Organic State" doesn't do much for me, somehow.  Ditto 
for racial homogeniety.

I got started on the revisionist path when, during a slack time between 
causes, I read Butz's book.

         Ross Vicksell

P.S.  None of of CODOH people are especially NS.


Article 15298 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Message-ID: 
Keywords: Germany, Hitler
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 07:24:10 GMT
Lines: 145

              LIVING IN HITLER GERMANY
                 by Hans Schmidt

        (a letter published in the Hoskin's Report Dec. 1, 1993)

Dear Dick:You asked for someone who had lived in Hitler's Germany to tell 
what it was like.  Permit me, someone who lived under the swastika flag 
from 1935, when the Saar was reunited with Germany, to 1945, to give a 
short answer.

To be a boy or girl at that time was wonderful.  In the Hitler youth the 
differences between Christian denominations or the different German
states didn't count.  We all felt that we were members of one body of people
- one nation.  Youth hostels were opened all over the Reich - enabling
us to hike from one beautiful town to another seeing our Fatherland. 
Every effort was made to strengthen our minds and bodies.  Contrary to
what is said today, we were encouraged to be free in spirit, and not to
succumb to peer (or authority) pressure.  In peacetime NO military
training was allowed by the Hitler Youth leadership.  Scouting yes. 
Incidentally, to "snitch on our parents" was frowned upon.

At the very time when America's allies, the Soviets, destroyed most of 
the Christian churches in Russia and Ukraine, about 2,500 new churches 
were built in Germany.  NOT ONE Christian church was closed.  It was the 
law that school and church had priority over service in the Hitler Youth.
As late as the fall of 1944, the Waffen SS-barracks Breslau supplied two 
buses to either the nearest Catholic or Protestant church every Sunday. 
To be a registered member of a Christian church did not prevent 
advancement in the National Socialist Party.

Germany was national socialist, but free enterprise flourished during the 
entire Hitler years.  No company was nationalized.  No small businessman 
was stopped from opening his own store.  I myself worked during the war 
for a compaany that can only be called part of international capitalism.  
If you owned shares, nobody confiscated them - like the allies did in 1945.

The accomplishments of the 'Nazis' were incredible.  Starting without 
money and with six million unemployed (a third of the work force) they 
constructed the entire German autobahn road network in a short span of 
six years - almost without corruption - while seeing to it that the new 
road system did not unnecessarily destroy either the German landscape, 
or wildlife habitats and forests. Two years after the NS were elected to 
power, conditions were so improved that workers had to be hired in 
nearby friendly countries to help alleviate the worker shortage in 
Germany.  Germany was booming while Britain, France and the US were in 
the depths of depression.

To help the workers get cheap transportation, the VW was designed and a 
factory was being built for their manufacture when the war started.  
Also, for the common people, villages of small single-family homes were 
erected.  The monthly payments were set so low that almost anybody could 
afford his own house.In Hitler's Germany there were no homeless - no 
beggars.  Crime was almost non-existent because habitual criminals were 
in concentration camps.  All this was reported in the newspapers and was 
well known by everybody.

The German press during the Third Reich had fewer taboos than the 
American press today.  The only taboo I can think of evolved around 
Hitler,and, during the war, there were laws that prohibited "defeatism."  
This was because of the negative role the "German" press  played in the 
German defeat of 1918.

It bears remembering that the 'European Economic Community' was first
coined by the Third Reich Government.  I remember many articles, both
pro and con, about the subject.  One should also not forget that nearly
7 million foreign nationals (nearly 10% of the population) worked as
voluntary workers (Dutch, Danes, French, Poles, Ukrainians come to
mind), or as forced laborers or as prisoners.  I know of no instance
                                               ---------------------
where foreigners were attacked or molested (much less killed) because
---------------------------------------------------------------------
they were foreigners.  Speaking of the press, I have an article from 
---------------------
1943 in my possession thar spells out how necessary friendship is
between the Russian and German peoples.

Between 1933 and 1945 there was a tremendous emphasis on culture: 
Theatres flourished, the German movie industry producesd about a 100 
feature films per year (of which not one was anti-American.  Onlt 50 of 
them can be considered pure propaganda movies).  Some of the best 
classical recordings still extant were made in Hitler's Germany.  Actors 
from all over Europe but mainly from France, Sweden and Italy were stars 
in German movies.

Germany always loved sports, and there was no lack of opportunities to
participate in any sport one liked.  The 1936 Berlin Olympics was
merely a showcase of what transpired all over the Reich.  In a book on
these Olympics issued by the Hitler Youth that is still in my
possession, Jesse Owens is shown several times, and mentioned
favorably.  During the Max Schmeling boxing fights, we kids all knew of
Joe Louis, the brown bomber.  Nowhere did I ever read derogatory
                              -----------------------------------
remarks about other races.  Certainly the accomplishments of Germany
--------------------------
and the Germans were given prominence, similar to the 'ad nauseam'
statements of today that the US is the land of the free, etc.  In my
ten years in the Hitler Youth (actually eight, since I obviously
couldn't attend while I was a soldier), the Jews were never mentioned. 
Other sports that gripped are attention were flying (there was Hitler
Youth flying training with their own sail planes), car races (British
and Italian drivers dominated) and riding.

Frequently I am asked about gun control during the Hitler era.  Claims 
are made that Hitler could take power because he disarmed the German 
people.  That is nonsense.  In Germany gun ownership was never as 
prevalent as it is in America.  I would say that for hundreds of years 
one needed a 'gun license' in order to keep a weapon.  On the other 
hand, my father owned an old pistol clandestinely (about which we 
children knew), and there were gun clubs all over the Reich.  
Furthermore, Germany was always a country with many excellent gunsmiths.  
It is doubtful if they could stay in business if the laws were too 
stringent.  I would surmise that while Germany was Germany (before it 
was 'liberated'  by the allies) gun ownership probably was far more 
widespread that is acknowledged today.  The laws on the books were 
mainly to give police a handle to arrest criminals with guns, not the 
                                         ---------
ordinary citizen.  Incidentally, just as Hitler had forbidden so-called 
'punishment exercises' in the Army (the brutal methods still employed in 
the American Army), so had he forbidden the use of clubs by police.  He 
considered it demeaning to the German people.

Finally this.  I don't believe I'll ever see again a people as happy and 
content as were the great majority of Germans under Hitler.  Especially 
in peace time.  Certainly some minorities suffered: former 
parliamentary politicians - because they couldn't play their political 
games, the Jews - because they lost their power over Germany, the 
gypsies - because (during the war) they were required to work, and 
crooked uunion bosses - because they lost their parasitical positions.  
To this day I believe that the happiness of the majority of a people is 
more important than the well being of a few spoiled minorities.  In 
school there should be an emphasis on promoting the best and the 
intelligent, as was done during the Hitler years - a fact that 
contributed after the war to the rapid German reconstruction.  That 
Hitler was loved by his people there can be no question.  Even a few 
weeks before the war's end and his death, he was able to drive to the
front and mingle among the combat soldiers with only minimum security. 
None of the soldiers had to unload their weapons before meeting with
the Fuhrer (as was required when President Bush met with American
soldiers during the Gulf War).

Germany under Hitler was quite different from what the media would have 
you believe.

             Hans Schmidt



Article 15299 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33bhog$no5@access1.digex.net> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 08:48:32 GMT
Lines: 14

Michael P. Stein (mstein@access1.digex.net) wrote:

:     So in order to be true, your theory (that the whole thing was made up
: after the war to justify the creation of Israel and the dissolution of
: East Prussia) would seem to require that the people making up the story
: had a time machine.  That's the only way I can think of in which they
: could have gone back and planted these pieces of evidence which were known
: during the war. 


Nobody's saying the whole thing was made up after the war.  It was made 
up DURING the war, by largely Zionist sources, and embellished after the war.

                          Ross Vicksell


Article 15300 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 25 Aug 1994 09:35:22 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <33hokq$quh@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu
Keywords: Germany, Hitler

You must be absolutely crazy to post something like this.

the more I read these people, the more I suspect that they're
clinically insane.

Are you seriously claiming that someone who lived in Germany
during 1933-45 has not *once* ran into antisemitic propaganda?

He never picked up a copy of that cute li'll magazine by
Julius Streicher, did he?

He never heard of the Nurnberg laws, did he?

He never heard Hitler's speech, in which he said that in case of a
new world war, the Jews in Europe will be exterminated?

He was on a tour during Kristallnacht, was he?

You're crazy, Vicksell. Go see a doctor. Take Hans Schimdt with
you. Be sure to get all these nice stories about his years in
the Hitler Youth. 


-Danny Keren.




Article 15301 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 25 Aug 1994 09:48:38 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

Ross Vicksell  wrote:

# Nobody's saying the whole thing was made up after the war.  It was made 
# up DURING the war, by largely Zionist sources, and embellished after the 
# war.

Prove it. I want to see your proof. Post your proof. Lets see your
proof. Where is your proof.

BTW, do the "Zionist sources" include the Poles? I find it very hard
to believe that even someone as twisted as Vicksell would make such a 
claim. The Poles, however, were the first to send out reports about
the mass murder in the "Operation Reinhard" camps. 

Post your proof, Vicksell.


-Danny Keren.



Article 15302 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Stalin's planned attack on C. and E. Europe, Doc. #2
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:  
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:29:08 GMT
Lines: 15

Regardless of what little personal differences Stalin and Trotsky may 
have had, Uncle Joe certainly followed Leon's advice as far as gobbling 
up Eastern Europe.

As for the Soviet plans and most elaborate preparations to attack Germany,
there's a big fat hardbound book about same.  It's called "Icebreaker" and
it's by a Soviet military intelligence officer called Victor Suvorov.  I
read it on the plane on the way back from the last IHR conference. 
Unfortunately I chucked it because it turned out that Suvorov was a
Holocaust believer.  Very juvenile of me.  Oh well. 

Maybe Greg Raven can quote you some juicy passages from Suvorov's book
after this year's conference rush is over. 

                 Ross Vicksell


Article 15303 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Proof the Second World War happened
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:  <33825s$gd6@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:36:20 GMT
Lines: 4

Can we expand the discussion to include black slavery and the roundness 
of the earth?

                    Ross Vicksell


Article 15304 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 25 Aug 1994 10:31:27 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 123
Message-ID: <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:  <33hokq$quh@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu
Keywords: Germany, Hitler


Testimony of Doctor Charles Bendel 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 132-133]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Now it is proper hell which is starting. The sonderkommando tries to
work as fast as possible. They drag the corpses by their wrists in
furious haste. People who had human faces before, I cannot recognize
again. They are like devils. A barrister from Salonica, an electrical
engineer from Budapest - they are no longer human beings because, 
even during the work, blows from sticks and rubber trunceons are being
showered over them. During the time this is going on they continue to
shoot people in front of these ditches, people who could not be got 
into the gas chambers because they were over-crowded. After an hour
and a half the whole work has been done and a new transport has been
dealt with in Crematorium No. 4.


Testimony of Obersturmfuehrer Dr. Fritz Klein 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 717]
----------------------------------------------------------------
When transports arrived at Auschwitz it was the doctor's job to pick
out those who were unfit or unable to work. These included children, 
old people and the sick. I have seen the gas chambers and crematoria 
at Auschwitz, and I knew that those I selected were to go to the gas
chamber. But I only acted on orders given to me by Dr. Wirtz.

 .
 .
 .

I never protested against people being sent to the gas chambers, 
although I never agreed. One cannot protest when in the army.


Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.

 .
 .
 .

I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.



Testimony of Stanislawa Starotska 
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge and
Company, 1949, page numbers follow]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
p. 418:

Q. How was the Appell [roll-call] for selection for the gas chamber run?

A. The doctor was present and he chose weak and sick people instead of
   healthy ones. My part was exactly the same as during the other 
   parades. I had to keep order and see that everything was all right.
   I never helped the staff of the concentration camp during the 
   selection for the gas chamebrs.

p. 421:

Q. How did the SS behave towards the prisoners at Auschwitz?

A. The prisoners in Auschwitz were treated very badly, and beaten on 
   every occasion. They had to work very hard, the accomodation was 
   very bad, they had lice and other diseases, and dogs were set on 
   them. Almost all the Blockfuehrer [block leader] in the camp carried 
   sticks which they used, and some of the Aufseherinnen [wardresses] 
   has sticks, some cellophane whips, and others dogs. Some had nothing.

 .
 .
 .

Q. When these Jews began to realize that they were being selected for
   the gas chamber did a lot of people begin to try and run away and
   get hysterical?

A. Some of them tried to run away and others tried to hide themselves,
   or tried to avoid being examined by the doctors. Those who tried to
   run away or hide were brought back again to the same place and
   sometimes were beaten.

p. 422:

Q. You say that sometimes the factories sent some prisoners back again
   who were completely exhausted from work. I suppose it was only a 
   question of time before these people found their way into the gas
   chamber?

A. It was not even a question of time; they were sent direct from the
   platform to the gas chamber.

p. 423:

Q. When the prisoners were being marched past the doctor, did you stand
   behind him taking the numbers or did you go round the parade and 
   take the numbers afterwards?

A. Prisoners marched past the doctor and then he would point out one of
   those wretched people and say "that man can be taken to the gas 
   chamber". At that moment the Blockfuehrer would take the man and
   bring him to the left side and tell me to write down the number as
   he was for the gas chamber.



-Danny Keren.




Article 15305 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 25 Aug 1994 10:44:29 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <33hsmd$5h@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:  <33hokq$quh@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <33hsed$t7h@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu
Keywords: Germany, Hitler


All Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against
Robert Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt",
By Bernd Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY.


From the testimony of Siegbert Loffler (p. 331):
------------------------------------------------
The witness tells of working in the Auschwitz station, where several
carloads of dead children had to be unloaded.

"They were little girls aged three or four, dressed like little dolls,
as if for a birthday party or some celebration. One remembered one's
own chlidren and lifted them out carefully. But when you got hit over
the head with a truncheon you threw them out".


Excerpts from the testimony of Milton Buky (page 341-342):
----------------------------------------------------------
Kaduk gave the orders, "Moll only sometimes". The people were driven 
into the gas chambers with dogs.

"They didn't all go in always. Either they didn't want to, or sometimes
there were too many. Those who stayed outside were shot, in their 
clothes".

"Who did that?"

"Mostly Kaduk". At first it was difficult to watch this, "but later I
got used to the sight". This procedure was repeated frequently, and 
there were always more and more people, primarily the aged and sick. 


Excerpts from the testimony of Dr. Czeslaw Glowakci (pages 134-136):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I was present at almost all executions in Block 11. We picked up the
corpses from the bunker in Block 11 and then they were brought to the
crematory".

The witness talks about the experimental gassings of Soviet prisoners
of war in the basement of the bunker block.

"I saw people clutching hair in their fists which they had torn from 
their own heads or those of others. I saw people locked in a tight
embrace. I saw fingers that had bitten through. The victims were kept
in the bunker for about two days, so the bodies were already in a state
of decomposition. The skin of the dead stuck to our hands".




-Danny Keren.



Article 15306 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Proof the Second World War happened
Date: 25 Aug 1994 10:55:09 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <33htad$e5@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:  <33825s$gd6@agate.berkeley.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

Ross Vicksell  wrote:

# Can we expand the discussion to include black slavery and the roundness 
# of the earth?

That is possible. But, in the meanwhile, can you give your best
piece of evidence that WW2 happened, or that the Soviets
committed any atrocities against the Germans? 

Posting these pieces of evidence will enable to understand what
are the criterions of "revisionists" for accepting something
as historically accurate.

So, do you have any evidence the Soviets committed atrocities
against the Germans? 


-Danny Keren.




Article 15308 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!schultz
From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Proof the Second World War happened
Date: 25 Aug 1994 12:33:37 GMT
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <33i331$6q@agate.berkeley.edu>
References:  <33825s$gd6@agate.berkeley.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Can we expand the discussion to include black slavery and the roundness 
>of the earth?

I take it then that you agree that the Holocaust is as well-proven as the 
two events you mention.
-- 
				Richard Schultz

"It is terrible to die of thirst in the ocean.  Do you have to salt your
truth so heavily that it does not even quench thirst any more?"


Article 15312 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TO ALL REVISIONISTS:
Supersedes: <33i550$8tj@access2.digex.net>
Date: 25 Aug 1994 09:26:08 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <33i65g$frj@access2.digex.net>
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: access2.digex.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>ridley@nucleus.com (Steve Ridley) writes:
>
>>I am curious, are most or any revionists National Socialists? 

>... None of of CODOH people are especially NS.

    If I were Milt Kleim, I'd ask if you had any documentary evidence to 
prove this. :)

    However, Mark Weber (co-founder of CODOH with Bradley Smith), although
not proven to be a card-carrying member of any NS group, certainly made
the right kind of white racist noise in the past.  (See Deborah Lipstadt's
book for details.)

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15313 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Stalin's planned attack on C. and E. Europe, Doc. #2
Supersedes: <33i5su$e1n@access2.digex.net>
Date: 25 Aug 1994 09:31:40 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <33i6fs$i0j@access2.digex.net>
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: access2.digex.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Regardless of what little personal differences Stalin and Trotsky may 
>have had, Uncle Joe certainly followed Leon's advice as far as gobbling 
>up Eastern Europe.

    Has anyone here disputed the fact that Stalin was an opportunistic 
expansionist?


>As for the Soviet plans and most elaborate preparations to attack Germany,
>there's a big fat hardbound book about same.  It's called "Icebreaker" and
>it's by a Soviet military intelligence officer called Victor Suvorov.  
[...]

>Maybe Greg Raven can quote you some juicy passages from Suvorov's book
>after this year's conference rush is over. 

     Leaving aside the fact that Greg Raven is not exactly the most
reliable person in the world when it comes to accurate quotation of
sources, as Raven might have put it: is the existence of a Soviet plan to
attack Germany your best evidence, then, that no Jews were gassed by the
Nazis?  Or is it your best evidence that Eisenhower ordered the 
extermination of German POWs?

     Or, if it's just what it seems to be, let me ask why you believe 
Suvarov when he testifies as to Stalin's plans?  Why is he a more 
reliable witness regarding Stalin than Ho"ss was about Auschwitz?  After 
all, Suvarov would have known that saying what he said would probably 
sell a lot more books than saying the opposite.  You don't take his 
possible financial motives into account when evaluating what he says.  
Yet revisionists always suggest that the Holocaust witnesses lied to get 
financial help for themselves and reparations money from Germany.  So why 
such a discrepancy in your level of skepticism?

    Answer the question, Ross.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15316 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!travelers.mail.cornell.edu!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley
From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley)
Subject: Re: TO ALL REVISIONISTS:
Message-ID: <1994Aug25.142742.15945@scic.intel.com>
Sender: news@scic.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation
References:  
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 14:27:42 GMT
Lines: 78

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:
>My current political leanings are in the populist direction, but the 
>concept of the "Organic State" doesn't do much for me, somehow.  Ditto 
>for racial homogeniety.

Just out of curiosity, is this Populist as in Bo Gritz and David Duke?
This is the only thing I have on Populism, but there might well be
more than one such movement by that name:


                       Gritz the Populist
 
     Willis A. Carto was a founding member of the Populist Party 
National Executive Committee. In the book _Profiles in Populism_ 
[Flag Press, 1982] Carto wrote:
 
     "Populism is the only social, economic, and political system 
     which withstands the destructive and degenerative effects of 
     modern, industrial society on family, nation, race, and 
     culture...
 
     A stable society develops and thrives when populist 
     principles are applied because the primacy of the nation, 
     culture, family, people, and race in public policy is 
     ensured; to the survival and growth of all of these, all
     other considerations are subordinate...
 
     But  just as there are hereditary differences in 
     intelligence and ability among children in any classroom, so 
     are there differences between related larger groups, such as 
     races, or ethnic groups within a racial whole.
 
     Carto's Populism rejects "integration" in favor of "racial 
integrity." 
 
     Gritz writes a column called _The Colonel's Corner_ for his 
_Center for Action_ newsletter. The November 1992 issue of the 
Christian Patriots Association's _Patriot Review_ newsletter 
reprinted one of Gritz's columns. In it, Gritz writes about his 
relationship with Willis Carto and the Liberty Lobby's Populist 
Action Committee:
 
 
     I was asked to allow my name to be placed on the list 
     of policy board members of Carto's Populist Action 
     Committee. I saw nothing wrong in this, but I must tell 
     you I have never received the first communication from 
     them. 
 
 
In fact, Gritz was listed as a member of the Populist Action 
Committee (PAC) in several issues of Carto's (Liberty Lobby) 
_Spotlight_ newspaper, prior to his claim of not having 
received any communication from the PAC. 
 
     The PAC was launched in 1991 by the Liberty Lobby. The 
featured speaker at the kick-off meeting was "English populist" 
John Tyndall of the British National Party. [_The Spotlight_ June 
3, 1991, page 1] The founding national chairman of the PAC, 
Robert Weems, was a Mississippi KKK leader [_Blood in the Face_ 
by James Ridgeway, Thunder's Mouth Press, 1990, page 131] Tyndall 
is a British fascist who has been quoted as saying "The Jew is 
like a maggot feeding on a body in an advanced state of decay." 
[_Beyond the Pale: The Christian Political Fringe_ by Derrick 
Knight, Caraf Publications, Lancashire, 1982, page 47]
 
 
 


-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SSD-CT
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien


Article 15320 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!cobra.uni.edu!sunfish!choover
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Proof the Second World War happened
Message-ID: 
From: choover@usd.edu (Christopher J Hoover )
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 14:43:07 GMT
Sender: news@sunfish.usd.edu
References:  <33825s$gd6@agate.berkeley.edu> 
Organization: University of South Dakota
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunbird
Lines: 15

codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>Can we expand the discussion to include black slavery and the roundness 
>of the earth?

Uhm....that's _exactly_ the point we've been making with this little 
_gedanken_ experiment.  Thank you for stating it so succinctly.


Regards,

Chris
--
Christopher J. Hoover    choover@usd.edu       University of South Dakota
Disclaimer:  standard    It's *always* September, *somewhere* on the Net.


Article 15326 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 25 Aug 1994 11:49:44 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <33ieio$o0r@access2.digex.net>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access2.digex.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Michael P. Stein (mstein@access1.digex.net) wrote:

>
>:     So in order to be true, your theory (that the whole thing was made up
>: after the war to justify the creation of Israel and the dissolution of
>: East Prussia) would seem to require that the people making up the story
>: had a time machine.  That's the only way I can think of in which they
>: could have gone back and planted these pieces of evidence which were known
>: during the war. 
>
>Nobody's saying the whole thing was made up after the war.  It was made 
>up DURING the war, by largely Zionist sources, and embellished after the war.

     I cited three specifics: the German industrialist Eduard Schulte, the
devout Christian SS chemical officer Kurt Gerstein, and SS hygienist Dr.
Wilhelm Pfannenstiel as corroboration of Gerstein.  What is your best
evidence that Schulte and Gerstein were Zionists or recruited by Zionists
during the war, and that Pfannenstiel was a Zionist or recruited by
Zionists after the war?  What's your best evidence for *any* of this?  

    You write your claim about being made up by Zionists as if it were a
*fact*, therefore if you are not a complete hypocrite you MUST have seen
some PROOF that this is true to the SAME STANDARD that you demand to prove
the Holocaust. SO  WHAT IS THAT PROOF, ROSS?

    Or are you just a complete hypocrite about proof?

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15347 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Consistency of the Denier Mind (again)
Date: 25 Aug 1994 14:33:46 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access2.digex.net
Keywords: Germany, Hitler

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>              LIVING IN HITLER GERMANY
>                 by Hans Schmidt
>
>        (a letter published in the Hoskin's Report Dec. 1, 1993)

    This letter is totally worthless for two reasons.

    First, Dan Gannon has been known to fabricate testimony ("Foxy 
Roxy").  What evidence do you have that this "Hans Schmidt" letter is 
authentic?

    Second, even if you can somehow prove that this Hans Schmidt really 
exists and really wrote this letter, it is merely eyewitness testimony.  
Eyewitness testimony is totally worthless as evidence.  You should know 
this.

    So why did you post this?

    Answer the questions, Ross.  What proof do you have this "Hans 
Schmidt" letter is authentic, and even if it is, why is this eyewitness 
testimony any more reliable than the testimony from concentration camp 
guards and survivors?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15351 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!ssd.intel.com!scic.intel.com!sbradley
From: sbradley@scic.intel.com (Seth J. Bradley)
Subject: Re: The Consistency of the Denier Mind (again)
Message-ID: <1994Aug25.204508.23863@scic.intel.com>
Keywords: Germany, Hitler
Sender: news@scic.intel.com
Organization: Intel Corporation
References:  <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net>
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 20:45:08 GMT
Lines: 15

In article <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net> mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>    First, Dan Gannon has been known to fabricate testimony ("Foxy 
>Roxy").  What evidence do you have that this "Hans Schmidt" letter is 
>authentic?

The Foxy Roxy posts should not be used as an example. They were
genuine, I have verified this in person.
-- 
Seth J. Bradley, Senior System Administrator, Intel SSD-CT
Internet: sbradley@scic.intel.com   UUCP: uunet!scic.intel.com!sbradley
----------------------------------------
"A system admin's life is a sorry one.  The only advantage he has over
Emergency Room doctors is that malpractice suits are rare.  On the other
hand, ER doctors never have to deal with patients installing new versions
of their own innards!"  -Michael O'Brien


Article 15363 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Stalin's planned attack on C. and E. Europe, Doc. #2
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Thu, 25 Aug 1994 09:29:08 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 03:27:44 GMT
Lines: 110


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>Regardless of what little personal differences Stalin and Trotsky may 
>have had, Uncle Joe certainly followed Leon's advice as far as gobbling 
>up Eastern Europe.

*After* World War II you mean, right?

Again you scatter these histories across time as if to say that Hitler
was justified because he knew Stalin would do this after Hitler's
death.

Unfortunately the opposite is true, much of Eastern Europe ultimately
fell to the USSR *because* of Hitler's total mess (I realize you may
protest the assessment but it's one virtually any leader of a major
nation would accept in a second, the proof is in the pudding, and no
matter how it came to be leaving Germany in the state it was in at the
end of WWII is, in the leadership game, total and 100% failure, you
took the "job" to protect them from their adversaries no matter what
it took, and you accept the judgement of reality, rationalizations are
of no consequence.)

That's a bit of serious historical revisionism that needs to be looked
at and I know you're going to hate it.

What with goings on today in the former Yugoslavia, Azerbaijan,
Armenia, Georgia, etc I think the West is going to have to come to
grips with the idea that maybe the USSR didn't grab these countries so
much out of some lust for domination but maybe because they came to
the conclusion (possibly misguided) that left to themselves there
would be (as there had been) unending warfare which inevitably caused
huge problems for surrounding nations not to mention the people living
there who weren't part of the 10 or 15 per-cent hell-bent on killing
each other and everyone else. Look at the atrocities by both sides in
the former Yugoslavia. These people aren't at war, they're just
killing each other and won't be happy until every one of the other
side is dead. It gives us some insight into the Nazi mentality, but I
wander.

Stalin might well be, today, howling with grim laughter from his grave
tho, NOW THEY UNDERSTAND!, tho perhaps so long as we can remain
insensitive it's not that big a deal, if they want to kill each other
they kill each other.

But perhaps if and when this spills into other countries as fanatics,
to get attention or out of pure spite, start setting off car bombs in
Paris or Berlin or NYC or shooting down commercial airliners or
poisoning water supplies in Vienna or whatever desparate act their
blind hatred drives them to then it will start to occur to us that
maybe, just maybe, some of the USSR's adventurism in response to
events like the never-ending wars in the Balkans, WWI erupting over an
assasination in Sarajevo, Macedonian and Bulgarian "freedom fighters"
massacring each other's villages, and finally Hitler marching on
Europe, people like Horthy in Hungary and the Serbian Chetniks jumping
to his side, etc, 10+ million more deaths in Western Russia that
maybe, JUST MAYBE, they'd had enough!

And perhaps this mostly American cold war bit about the USSR marching
over Eastern Europe in some blood-thirsty world marxist obsession was
really quite misleading even if no doubt they (USSR) often justified
it all in public in those terms (I mean, you can't really tell a
people that we did this so you'd stop killing each other and us and
everyone else too, doubtful they'd accept such reasoning, better to
try to convince them they're now part of some great and wonderous
marxist revolution that shall give them all peace and prosperity.)

One of the interesting questions rarely asked is how come, with a few
notable exceptions mostly arising directly from WWII (eg, East
Germany, Hungary, Czechoslovakia), did the USSR seems to (according to
cold warriors) spend so much time and energy on ratshit little
worthless countries whose major industrial product was repacking
bullet casings for antique rifles? I mean worthless in selfish terms
of the Russian economy and empire, not in judgement of the people
therein particularly I'm sure they loved their children etc. Why these
little mostly irrelevant countries? Because the nation that posed the
greatest threat in history to one of the other greatest empires ever,
the United States, couldn't manage to install themselves into
someplace like say Nigeria which had oil oil oil or the mideast or
North Africa and begin to control the Mediterranean or whatever, go
look at a map.  Or maybe they weren't quite as mindlessly expansionist
as the cold warriors liked people to think?

It's worth a thought.

An interesting reference which is sort of oblique but almost more
credible in that it's not quite trying to make this point but does
anyhow is that book "WWIII" written by a bunch of NATO generals in
which their scenario for the beginning of WWIII (that's three) is the
West (notably the US) allowing (West) Germany to re-militarize and the
Soviets panicking over this as memories of the last world war rise,
the Soviets (this is in the 1970's) protest vigorously, the West
basically claims Germany has a right to sovereignity and to do what
they like, panic breaks out in the Kremlin over a period of months,
and the Russian tanks finally roll across the Folder Gap into Germany
to ``restore the order 10 million Russians died for not very long
ago'', NATO of course sees this as utter hostility and fires back and
so it goes, bye bye world (actually, not really, interestingly very
little nuclear warfare comes into play in their scenario, the optimism
is that both sides manage to restrain themselves to the battlefields
and ``collateral damage''.)

Interesting book tho, or was when I read it, might seem kinda campy
today.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15364 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Thu, 25 Aug 1994 07:24:10 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 1994 01:38:43 GMT
Lines: 140


This is total insanity and pure, bald-faced lying. This isn't even
debateable. It's breathtaking that you would even post this Ross,
absolutely breathtaking.

From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>              LIVING IN HITLER GERMANY
>                 by Hans Schmidt

	...

>Crime was almost non-existent because habitual criminals were 
>in concentration camps.

Where "habitual criminals" are defined as Jews, Gypsies, Catholic
clergy, etc.

Ok, I've seen the revisionists argue (mostly with great futility) that
there was no mass extermination program.

But what the hell is this? There were no people sent to concentration
camps except for generally accepted standards (ie, not because of
their ethnicity) for being "habitual criminals"???

>I know of no instance
>where foreigners were attacked or molested (much less killed) because
>they were foreigners. 

Unbelievable.

I suppose I could imagine some stretched interpretation of this
sentence that might make it true.

But in the end it sort of falls flat when one considers the number of
countries the Nazi war machine invaded and the number of deaths that
resulted.

>Speaking of the press, I have an article from 
>1943 in my possession thar spells out how necessary friendship is
>between the Russian and German peoples.

yikes.

Waitaminit, how come all our current net.nazis claim that Hitler was
justified in all his aggressive militarism because of the Russians?

Any port in a storm I suppose. Perhaps, again, this is some attempt to
distinguish the Russian people and their govt.

However, Hitler's and his Nazi party's raving about the inferior
Slavic races whose only purpose should be to serve his Master Race
might give one pause on this point.

I suppose, again, this friendship is to be interpreted as in the
phrase "nice doggy!"

>Germany always loved sports, and there was no lack of opportunities to
>participate in any sport one liked.  The 1936 Berlin Olympics was
>merely a showcase of what transpired all over the Reich.  In a book on
>these Olympics issued by the Hitler Youth that is still in my
>possession, Jesse Owens is shown several times, and mentioned
>favorably.  During the Max Schmeling boxing fights, we kids all knew of
>Joe Louis, the brown bomber.  Nowhere did I ever read derogatory
>remarks about other races.

Um, EXCUUUSE ME! YOO-HOO! ANYBODY HOME?

As far as I can tell Max Schmeling fought his last championship fight
in 1932, about a year before Hitler came to power.

What's this guy's birth year anyhow? He's kinda all over the map here.

>Nowhere did I ever read derogatory
>remarks about other races.

Were you illiterate or comatose during this period? That would be the
only possible explanation.

Hitler comes to power in January 1933.

Hitler's govt passes the Nurenberg Laws forbidding Jews from all
government jobs, universities, schools in general (both as students
and teachers), etc.

Or what about the goddamned stars they had to wear on the outside of
their clothing?

Tell us all the name of ONE Jewish athlete on the German Olympic team
(oh I know they all had twisted ankles that week...)

Or maybe in this guy's twisted mind this isn't derogatory.

>In my
>ten years in the Hitler Youth (actually eight, since I obviously
>couldn't attend while I was a soldier), the Jews were never mentioned. 

Bullshit.

How about the military's habit of painting things like:

		Wir fahren nach Polen
		um Juden zu versohlen

	(We're off to Poland to thrash the Jews)

on military transports. Nice.

>Certainly some minorities suffered: former 
>parliamentary politicians - because they couldn't play their political 
>games, the Jews - because they lost their power over Germany, the 
>gypsies - because (during the war) they were required to work

This guy is just a Nazi, very simple. Sure the Jews suffered a little,
we killed several million, but whaddya expect? Their DIABOLICAL VOODOO
MIND CONTROL GRIPPING THE ENTIRE WORLD AND MAKING THEM ALL THEIR
MINDLESS THRALLS was over, that's all.

>To this day I believe that the happiness of the majority of a people is 
>more important than the well being of a few spoiled minorities.

Well, hey, you Nazis are surely in the minority, and you make me
unhappy. So I make a motion that you be sent to a forced labor camp
and worked until you die, the sooner the better, and what remains of
you be ground up and sold as dog food.

Fair enough? You're not some kinda spoiled minority are you? You do
want the majority to be happy, right?

>Germany under Hitler was quite different from what the media would have 
>you believe.

Not really, they told us Nazis like you were psychopathic lunatics and
from all I can see here it seems to have been true.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15365 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!kauhunen
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 26 Aug 1994 02:14:53 GMT
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <33jj6t$s0b@prime.mdata.fi>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:

>Nobody's saying the whole thing was made up after the war.  It was made 
>up DURING the war, by largely Zionist sources, and embellished after the war.
>

Evidence, Ross, just a one piece of evidence, if you don't mind.
Or if you don't have any because those Zionist sorces have managed
to distroy it all, so could
you please explain us how do you THINK those
powerful Zionist sources did that hoax of the twentieth centyry?
They must have bribed those nazis to work for them, or what?



-- 
Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
Maavallintie 4
00430 Helsinki
Finland


Article 15374 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: An apology to Dan Gannon
Date: 26 Aug 1994 03:34:40 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <33k5ug$bud@access1.digex.net>
References:  <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net> <1994Aug25.204508.23863@scic.intel.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net
Keywords: Germany, Hitler

In article <1994Aug25.204508.23863@scic.intel.com>,
Seth J. Bradley  wrote:
>In article <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net>
>mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
>>    First, Dan Gannon has been known to fabricate testimony ("Foxy 
>>Roxy").  What evidence do you have that this "Hans Schmidt" letter is 
>>authentic?
>
>The Foxy Roxy posts should not be used as an example. They were
>genuine, I have verified this in person.

    I had read that she was an invention of an alter ego of Dan's.

    Amazing.  Well, I apologized to Milt Kleim once; I can apologize to
Dan Gannon as well.  Sorry, Dan.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15378 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!kauhunen
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Consistency of the Denier Mind (again)
Date: 26 Aug 1994 12:47:59 GMT
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <33ko9v$6r@prime.mdata.fi>
References:  <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi
Keywords: Germany, Hitler

In article <33io6a$djt@access2.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:

>    This letter is totally worthless for two reasons.

No, Mike, not totally; it proves that Mr. Vicksell has totally
lost his common sense and it also proves that living can be
easy with eyes closed.



-- 
Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
Maavallintie 4
00430 Helsinki
Finland


Article 15416 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!insosf1.infonet.net!news.i-link.com!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:49:51 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <33hokq$quh@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>, dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) wrote:

> Testimony of Doctor Charles Bendel 
> [Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
> and Company, 1949, p. 132-133]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Now it is proper hell which is starting. The sonderkommando tries to
> work as fast as possible. They drag the corpses by their wrists in
> furious haste. People who had human faces before, I cannot recognize
> again. They are like devils. A barrister from Salonica, an electrical
> engineer from Budapest - they are no longer human beings because, 


REST OF THIS GARBAGE DELETED
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Danny "Deir Yassin" Keren posts the above and much more, which I had to
delete. Hey, Deir, you forgot to post the title to your compendium. Here,
I have it:


A Collection of Bedtime Stories for Jewish Children

Yeah, I can just see you, there in your bed bought with money fleeced from
the American taxpayer, the little one's next to you, the house
romantically located on some poor Palestinian's stolen land, and you
begin:

Once upon a time there was a mean German by the name of Mengele and big
extermination camp called Auschwitz,........... 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15418 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!convex!convex!insosf1.infonet.net!news.i-link.com!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 26 Aug 1994 23:55:44 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article , bzs@world.std.com (Barry
Shein) wrote:

> 
> However, Hitler's and his Nazi party's raving about the inferior
> Slavic races whose only purpose should be to serve his Master Race
> might give one pause on this point.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Blarney Shtein,


You are wrong, real wrong. This is tired, worn-out propaganda. Name one
article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
English translations aren't gonna do it) that contains the garbage you
posted above.

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15426 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!boulder!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: TO ALL REVISIONISTS:
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:   <1994Aug25.142742.15945@scic.intel.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 04:25:48 GMT
Lines: 11

My populism is of the non-racist Chuck Harder For-the-People Variety:

Anti multi-national corporation.  Anti "free" trade.  For high tariffs.  
For the restoration of American industry.  "Buy American."  Anti foreign 
intervention, a la Iraq, Panama, etc. etc.  Anti NAFTA (a little late for 
that one), Anti GATT.

In short, America First.  And yes, I agree with the pre-WWII America 
Firsters that we could have and should have stayed out of the European war.

                    Ross Vicksell


Article 15428 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!tali.hsc.colorado.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net>  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 05:32:02 GMT
Lines: 28

dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren) writes:

>Ross Vicksell  wrote:

># Nobody's saying the whole thing was made up after the war.  It was made 
># up DURING the war, by largely Zionist sources, and embellished after the 
># war.

>Prove it. I want to see your proof. Post your proof. Lets see your
>proof. Where is your proof.

>BTW, do the "Zionist sources" include the Poles? I find it very hard
>to believe that even someone as twisted as Vicksell would make such a 
>claim. The Poles, however, were the first to send out reports about
>the mass murder in the "Operation Reinhard" camps. 

>Post your proof, Vicksell.


>-Danny Keren.

One of the principle purveyors of Holocaust propaganda was the World 
Jewish Congress, which wanted the British to open Palestine to unlimited 
Jewish immigration.

Another was the World Zionist Organization.

             QED


Article 15430 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!psuvax1!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!netaxs.com!btrosko
From: btrosko@netaxs.com (Brian Trosko)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 27 Aug 1994 08:16:11 GMT
Organization: Netaxs BBS and shell accounts!
Lines: 9
Message-ID: <33msob$4ht@netaxs.com>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33c8bd$q67@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net>  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: unix2
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

: One of the principle purveyors of Holocaust propaganda was the World 
: Jewish Congress, which wanted the British to open Palestine to unlimited 
: Jewish immigration.

: Another was the World Zionist Organization.

Sources, please, sources! And I sincerely hope whatever evidence you can 
cite will hold up to the same standards by which you judge the sources of 
Mssrs. Stein and McVey, or you'll simply look like a fool.  We're waiting.


Article 15431 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 27 Aug 1994 09:47:55 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <33n24b$eh0@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:  <33hokq$quh@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <33hrtv$t35@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

"landpost", that was quite pathetic.

If you have evidence that the testimonies I posted are inaccurate,
let's see it. 


-Danny Keren.



Article 15432 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 27 Aug 1994 09:52:48 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <33n2dg$eog@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

If "landpost" wants proof that the Nazis regarded the Slavs
as sub-human animals to be used for labor, here it is:


From the speech of Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler, speaking to SS
Major-Generals, Poznan, October 4 1943
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 559]
-------------------------------------------------------------------
One basic principal must be the absolute rule for the SS man: we
must be honest, decent, loyal, and comradely to members of our own
blood and to nobody else. What happens to a Russian, to a Czech,
does not interest me in the slightest. What the nations can offer
in good blood of our type, we will take, if necessary by kidnapping
their children and raising them with us. Whether nations live in
prosperity or starve to death interests me only in so far as we
need them as slaves for our culture; otherwise, it is of no interest
to me. Whether 10,000 Russian females fall down from exhaustion
while digging an anti-tank ditch interest me only in so far as
the anti-tank ditch for Germany is finished. We shall never be rough
and heartless when it is not necessary, that is clear. We Germans,
who are the only people in the world who have a decent attitude
towards animals, will also assume a decent attitude towards these
human animals. But it is a crime against our own blood to worry
about them and give them ideals, thus causing our sons and
grandsons to have a more difficult time with them. When someone
comes to me and says, "I cannot dig the anti-tank ditch with women
and children, it is inhuman, for it will kill them", then I
would have to say, "you are a murderer of your own blood because
if the anti-tank ditch is not dug, German soldiers will die, and
they are the sons of German mothers. They are our own blood".


Frank, Governor of Nazi occupied Poland, in an interview, October 3
1939
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 632]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Poland can only be administered by utilizing the country through
means of ruthless exploitation, deportation of all supplies, raw
materials, machines, factory installations etc., which are
important for the German war economy, availability of all workers
for work within Germany, reduction of the entire Polish economy
to absolute minimum necessary for bare existence of the population,
closing of all educational institutions, especially technical
schools and colleges in order to prevent the growth of a new
Polish intelligentsia. Poland shall be treated as a colony. the
Poles shall be the slaves of the Greater German World Empire.




-Danny Keren.



Article 15435 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 27 Aug 1994 10:33:02 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <33n4ou$fsb@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl>  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

Ross Vicksell  wrote:

# One of the principle purveyors of Holocaust propaganda was the World 
# Jewish Congress, which wanted the British to open Palestine to unlimited 
# Jewish immigration.

Didn't help much, did it? The British refused to open the borders
for Jewish refugees. Many were sent back; many drowned in sea. Many
were held in detention camps.

So far for the "mighty Zionist" who "controlled" the British...

Now, it makes sense that Jewish organizations tried to help the
Jews who were being massacred in Europe. We certainly see now
a very large and concentrated effort by Muslim organizations all
over the world to help the Bosnia Muslims. What's Vicksell's point?

Vicksell just doesn't get it: he has to prove that the reports
(during and after the war) of survivors and other witnesses are
not true. Not that one or two are inaccurate - that might be
possible - but that the general picture they all describe is
not true.

Naturally, he fails to respond to my point about the Polish
witnesses. Answer it, Vicksell. Answer the question. Are you
accusing the Poles of lying? Answer the question, Vicksell.

#              QED

As a mathematician, I give Vicksell an F.


-Danny Keren.



Article 15441 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ai292
From: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee)
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@freenet.carleton.ca (Usenet News Admin)
Reply-To: ai292@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Gordon McFee)
Organization: The National Capital FreeNet
References:   
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 14:10:08 GMT
Lines: 27


In a previous article, landpost@clark.net () says:

>In article , bzs@world.std.com (Barry
>Shein) wrote:
>
>> 
>> However, Hitler's and his Nazi party's raving about the inferior
>> Slavic races whose only purpose should be to serve his Master Race
>> might give one pause on this point.
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Hey Blarney Shtein,
>
>
>You are wrong, real wrong. This is tired, worn-out propaganda. Name one
>article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
>subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
>English translations aren't gonna do it) that contains the garbage you
>posted above.

Since you are such a great historian, do your own research, you pathetic
little Nazi wanabee.
--
Gordon McFee ai292

I'll write no line before its time!


Article 15445 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!sun4nl!hacktic!musmint
From: musmint@xs4all.nl (musmint)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 27 Aug 1994 17:52:32 GMT
Organization: Hack-Tic, Networking for the masses
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <33nuh0$l2e@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net>  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xs1.xs4all.nl

In article <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>,
Danny Keren  wrote:
...
>
>BTW, do the "Zionist sources" include the Poles? I find it very hard
>to believe that even someone as twisted as Vicksell would make such a 
>claim. The Poles, however, were the first to send out reports about
>the mass murder in the "Operation Reinhard" camps. 
>
That were the same Poles that happily continued murdering jews
*after* the germans had left? This is another pecularity in
post war history: that when the russians or Poles murdered
jews, they get away with it. Seems to confirm my idea that
the holocaust (which may well have happened) was used for
postwar propaganda.

A.M.



Article 15446 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!hacktic!musmint
From: musmint@xs4all.nl (musmint)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 27 Aug 1994 17:54:49 GMT
Organization: Hack-Tic, Networking for the masses
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <33nul9$l2m@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33dun5$d48@access1.digex.net>  <33ieio$o0r@access2.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xs1.xs4all.nl

In article <33ieio$o0r@access2.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:
...>
>     I cited three specifics: the German industrialist Eduard Schulte, the
>devout Christian SS chemical officer Kurt Gerstein, and SS hygienist Dr.
>Wilhelm Pfannenstiel as corroboration of Gerstein.  What is your best
>evidence that Schulte and Gerstein were Zionists or recruited by Zionists
>during the war, and that Pfannenstiel was a Zionist or recruited by
>Zionists after the war?  What's your best evidence for *any* of this?  
>

I have no opinion about Schulte, but if you believe the Gerstein-letters
are authentic... you are welcome. I don't.

>    You write your claim about being made up by Zionists as if it were a
>*fact*, therefore if you are not a complete hypocrite you MUST have seen
>some PROOF that this is true to the SAME STANDARD that you demand to prove
>the Holocaust. SO  WHAT IS THAT PROOF, ROSS?
>
>    Or are you just a complete hypocrite about proof?

Ssssstt... dont' shout.

:-)

A.M.



Article 15447 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sun4nl!hacktic!musmint
From: musmint@xs4all.nl (musmint)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 27 Aug 1994 18:00:10 GMT
Organization: Hack-Tic, Networking for the masses
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <33nuva$l5n@news.xs4all.nl>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl> <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <33n4ou$fsb@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: xs1.xs4all.nl

In article <33n4ou$fsb@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>,
Danny Keren  wrote:
>Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
...
>Didn't help much, did it? The British refused to open the borders
>for Jewish refugees. Many were sent back; many drowned in sea. Many
>were held in detention camps.
>
>So far for the "mighty Zionist" who "controlled" the British...
...

BTW. I heard references that there were concentration camps for jews
in England, during the war, on the isle of Man. (Of course without
the mass killings that were reported in german KZ's (there! I don't
even deny mass killings)). Does anybody know more about british
KZ's for jews?

>
>
>Naturally, he fails to respond to my point about the Polish
>witnesses. Answer it, Vicksell. Answer the question. Are you
>accusing the Poles of lying? Answer the question, Vicksell.
>
>#              QED

May I? Even jews don't hate the germans so much as the Poles do.
I see absolutely no reason why the Poles shouldn't lie if they
could incriminate the germans.
>

A.M.



Article 15453 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 18:11:54 GMT
Lines: 6

After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
up on us revisionists?

        Ross Vicksell


Article 15454 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: SHOAH
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <33ij0e$q4r@prime.mdata.fi>
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 18:20:04 GMT
Lines: 17

Kari Nenonen (kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi) wrote:
: Lanzman's (sp?) movie Shoah is just been shown in Finnish national
: network (TV-2). I think it's hard evidence for Holocaust. What do
: the revisionists think about it? Forgeries? Lies?



: -- 
: Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
: Maavallintie 4
: 00430 Helsinki
: Finland

My friend and colleague Bradley Smith wrote a long review of Shoah for 
the IHR mag a while back.  I'll see if we can get it posted.

          Ross Vicksell


Article 15455 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!pm005-07.dialip.mich.net!user
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 14:37:45 -0400
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: 
   
   
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-07.dialip.mich.net

landpost@clark.net (Tim McCarthy) wrote:

> Name one
> article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
> subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
> English translations aren't gonna do it)

Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?

This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
two syllables...?)

This from the guy who didn't know what the Grimm Brothers' dictionary was.

This from the guy who insisted that "Reinigung" could not mean a cleansing,
that it could only mean "laundromat."

I somehow think the original German would be lost on him.

Then again, maybe "you're" English translations would be too!
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 I speak for no one but myself.


Article 15457 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References:  
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 18:41:35 GMT
Lines: 7

I'm saving up the replies to my original post to send to Hans.  He 
presumably will give me some kind of reply to post.

I'll always try to get him to hook up to the net.  He would make a lively 
addition to our discussion group.

   Ross Vicksell


Article 15458 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: The Shape of Things to Come
Message-ID: 
Keywords: alt.revisionism
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 1994 18:50:11 GMT
Lines: 8

The main reason I'm going out to the IHR convention next weekend is to
recruit revisionists for alt.revisionism.  Ernst Zundel is preoccupied
with the coming Leuchter trial right now, but he should show up on the net
soon.  John Ball and Jack Wikoff are also close.  I'll work on Robert
Faurisson.  Wish me luck. 


              Ross Vicksell


Article 15478 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shape of Things to Come
Date: 27 Aug 1994 21:39:42 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <33obqu$7gu@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu
Keywords: alt.revisionism

I don't have any problems with Vicksell bringing more "leading
revisionists" to the net - hell, the more of them come, the more
of them will be exposed for what they are - but it should be
interesting, nontheless, to note that "revisionists", who 
always whine about facing "organized, financed opposition"
etc, will have no such excuse when they post here.

Vicksell has actually collected most of the "leading revisionists"
on this group. These are professional Holocaust deniers - they
make their living off it. Those arguing with them are all
doing this on a voluntary basis - none of them is a professional
historian and none of them receives one cent for his efforts.


-Danny Keren.




Article 15482 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Fritz Berg's Absence
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 00:11:02 GMT
Lines: 9

Just talked with Fritz Berg on the phone today.  He's been busy preparing 
his speech for next weekend's IHR conference.  Hopefully Bradley, Fritz, 
and Greg will be hitting the board again after the conference is over.

Just for the fun of it, anybody want to venture a guess on what Fritz's 
talk is going to be about? (I don't know myself, yet.)  Closest guess gets 
the coveted "alt.revisionist of the month" award.

                    Ross Vicksell


Article 15485 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
References:  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> <33nuh0$l2e@news.xs4all.nl>
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1994Aug28.223914.2340@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 94 22:39:14 GMT

In article <33nuh0$l2e@news.xs4all.nl> musmint@xs4all.nl (musmint) writes:

>That were the same Poles that happily continued murdering jews
>*after* the germans had left? This is another pecularity in
>post war history: that when the russians or Poles murdered
>jews, they get away with it. Seems to confirm my idea that
>the holocaust (which may well have happened) was used for
>postwar propaganda.

I haven't seen anyone deny that Poles killed Jews after the war
ended. The subject, by the way, is a topic of heated discussion in
soc.culture.jewish.holocaust...

-- 
"Mr Kaufman is obviously Jewish and a living  example of why the Nazis 
tried to remove Jews from Europe and short of that, into concentration 
camps for the duration of the war."        (Fritz Berg, June 26, 1994)


Article 15493 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.intercon.com!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!cat.cis.Brown.EDU!dzk
From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fritz Berg's Absence
Date: 28 Aug 1994 08:36:44 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <33pias$sf4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cslab6b.cs.brown.edu

Heck, I have no idea what Berg is going to talk about at your
"conference". Is it about how he called all those debating with
him "Jewish trash", "Jewish slime", etc?

Now that should really get the crowd going!


-Danny Keren.


Article 15494 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!kauhunen
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fritz Berg's Absence
Date: 28 Aug 1994 08:58:13 GMT
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <33pjj5$7ec@prime.mdata.fi>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:

>Just for the fun of it, anybody want to venture a guess on what Fritz's 
>talk is going to be about? (I don't know myself, yet.)  Closest guess gets 
>the coveted "alt.revisionist of the month" award.

How about "How to keep the Jewish trash alive by diesel exhaust fumes"?

>                    Ross Vicksell


.
-- 
Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
Maavallintie 4
00430 Helsinki
Finland


Article 15498 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 28 Aug 1994 09:14:14 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <33q2j6$b7l@access1.digex.net>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl>  <33hpdm$re4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>One of the principle purveyors of Holocaust propaganda was the World 
>Jewish Congress, which wanted the British to open Palestine to unlimited 
>Jewish immigration.
>
>Another was the World Zionist Organization.

    What you are leaving out is some of the sources from which they got
their information. 

    The *original* source for the announcement by Rabbi Wise was German 
industrialist Eduard Schulte, conveyed to the American legation in 
Switzerland.

    Another "Zionist purveyor of propaganda" was SS chemical officer Kurt
Gerstein, who was alerting selected friends and the Swedes *during* the
war, before there was any possibility of torturing a statement out of him.

    And once again, I ask how the Gypsy extermination story helps the
Jews?  Who had an interest in fabricating that?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15500 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!sunic!trane.uninett.no!eunet.no!nuug!EU.net!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: confessions of a revisionsit
Date: 28 Aug 1994 09:43:13 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <33q49h$bvu@access1.digex.net>
References: <33b69q$74h@news.xs4all.nl>  <33ieio$o0r@access2.digex.net> <33nul9$l2m@news.xs4all.nl>
NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net

In article <33nul9$l2m@news.xs4all.nl>, musmint  wrote:
>In article <33ieio$o0r@access2.digex.net>,
>I have no opinion about Schulte, but if you believe the Gerstein-letters
>are authentic... you are welcome. I don't.

    You are ignoring the fact that the Gerstein letters are not the only
thing.  Gerstein also told selected friends such as Alexandra Ba"lz and
Otto Vo"lckers *during* the war.  From a 1953 letter from Ba"lz:

    "One evening, it must have been in August or September of 1942, I was 
his guest at 47 Bu"lowstrasse.  After dinner, served by his good Frau 
Hintz, we listened to some foreign broadcasts and then we sat down face 
to face in the fading light.  Suddenly Gerstein began to weep bitterly 
and sobbed out again and again: "I can't go on!  I can't go on!"  After 
this first outburst, his eyes began to wander and took on a sort of wild 
look.  He was no longer looking at me at all as he recounted, word for 
word, all the details (that were later published in his report).  It was 
the first time I had ever heard anyone speak of these things and I was so 
upset that for whole nights afterward I was unable to close my eyes."


    He told a Swedish diplomat in August 1942.  The Swedes confirmed this. 
What is your proof that Alexandra Balz, Otto Vo"lckers, and the Swedes
were all lying? 

    Another interesting tidbit - testimony by his wife during the 
Eichmann trial:

    "I have a strong suspicion that, either directly or by way of Sweden, 
my husband also warned Finland about delivering up its Jews, because one 
day he described to me gleefully how one of his superiors fumed and raged 
when he learned, on a visit to Helsinki, that the Finns 'wouldn't hand 
over their Jews.'"

    (That the Nazis asked Finland to hand over their Jews, and that the 
Finns refused, was confirmed in the memoirs of - if I recall correctly - 
the head of Finnish intelligence during the war.  Kari Nenonen posted 
information about this a few months ago.)

[Sources: Friedlander, Saul: "Counterfeit Nazi" (Knopf, 1969), pp. 130-33,
and Poliakov, Leon, "Harvest of Hate" (Syracuse Univ. Press, 1954) p. 193]

>Ssssstt... dont' shout.

    I'd stop shouting if revisionists ever provided proof to one tenth 
the standard I do.  Usually they don't respond at all.

    Are you also going to ignore the information I posted above about
Gerstein, showing that everything in that letter you believe is a forgery
was communicated to other people in person during the war?  Or are you
just close your eyes and pretend you didn't see this so that you can 
keep your illusions that Gerstein can be discounted as a forgery?

    Perhaps you are now going to claim that the Swedes were Zionist
conspirators, and the Finns as well, not to mention Alexandra Ba"lz and
Otto Vo"lckers.
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15505 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!jobone!lynx.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!mozo.cc.purdue.edu!cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu!smullins
From: smullins@cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott H Mullins)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fritz Berg's Absence
Date: 28 Aug 1994 15:12:56 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <33q9ho$2o0@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: cidmac.ecn.purdue.edu

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:
>Just talked with Fritz Berg on the phone today.  He's been busy preparing 
>his speech for next weekend's IHR conference.  Hopefully Bradley, Fritz, 
>and Greg will be hitting the board again after the conference is over.

Cool. I am looking forward to having him back. There are
questions he needs to answer.

>Just for the fun of it, anybody want to venture a guess on what Fritz's 
>talk is going to be about? (I don't know myself, yet.)  Closest guess gets 
>the coveted "alt.revisionist of the month" award.

How the Jews actually all died in a freak boating accident?

--
Scott
smullins@ecn.purdue.edu


Article 15507 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net!netnews.summit.novell.com!netnews.summit.novell.com!langsvr1!mattk
From: mattk@netnews.usl.com (Kaufman M.E.)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 28 Aug 1994 16:38:58 GMT
Organization: Novell
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: langsvr1.summit.novell.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]

Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
: After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 

Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
status was still under debate.
And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
in the posting.
: existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
: concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
: up on us revisionists?
:         Ross Vicksell

Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.

Matt
--
It is, indisputably,|copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
a fact.             |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
                    |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
                    |rights are granted or implied.


Article 15518 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: TO ALL REVISIONISTS:
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Sat, 27 Aug 1994 04:25:48 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	<1994Aug25.142742.15945@scic.intel.com> 
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 21:52:18 GMT
Lines: 46


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>My populism is of the non-racist Chuck Harder For-the-People Variety:

Obviously there's some confusion of terms but to me "populism" is not
a very laudatory term and refers to people like Huey "Kingfisher" Long
(Governor of Louisiana in the 1930s I believe?) and James Michael
Curly (Mayor of Boston in roughly the same period) and others who,
although they certainly had their good points, were often associated
with very corrupt politics often expressed in buying votes by abusing
their govt'l power and access. Stuff like ``ya wanna keep your health
board certification for your slaughterhouse? then yer gonna help me
give out a few thousand turkeys for votes''.

Obviously meanings can change but I believe given this you need to be
more specific. Populism in American politics is generally associated
with demogoguery and cheap bullying etc in order to buy votes (hence
the phrase "populism".)

Webster's 10th Collegiate only associates the term with an agrarian
interests movement arising around 1892 which promoted free coinage of
silver and and govt control of monopolies.

Admittedly dictionary definitions are often so vague as to be nearly
useless when defining things as complex as political philosophies, but
what little they do say generally is accurate even if misleadingly
incomplete. But does this ring any bells with what you mean?

>In short, America First.

I don't know that this has ever had much to do with populism per se,
there are many different political philosophies that would feel
comfortable using this phrase. Wasn't it Ross Perot's slogan in the
recent presidential election? Would you feel alliance with Perot
(perhaps you would, just asking)?

>And yes, I agree with the pre-WWII America 
>Firsters that we could have and should have stayed out of the European war.

It's a little late for that.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15537 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!sunic!columba.udac.uu.se!Krille.Update.UU.SE!news.update.uu.se!flax
From: flax@Krille.update.uu.se (Jonas Flygare)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shape of Things to Come
Date: 29 Aug 1994 06:31:49 GMT
Organization: Update, Uppsala Student Computer Club, Uppsala, Sweden
Lines: 17
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: krille.update.uu.se
In-reply-to: codfish@netcom.com's message of Sat, 27 Aug 1994 18:50:11 GMT

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

   The main reason I'm going out to the IHR convention next weekend is to
   recruit revisionists for alt.revisionism.  Ernst Zundel is preoccupied
   with the coming Leuchter trial right now, but he should show up on the net
   soon.  John Ball and Jack Wikoff are also close.  I'll work on Robert
   Faurisson.  Wish me luck. 

Faurisson? That'll be a hoot... Let us know when you have him
de-kooked enough to string words together into sentences.
Here in Sweden, (and Finland as well) we've seen quite enough of
Mr. Faurisson to last us another fifty years.
--
Safe PGP key fingerprint =  A7 FA 4D 35 73 0E DB 65  69 D5 D4 E1 02 E6 91 E2 
Unix PGP key fingerprint =  0D 22 64 4D 05 35 53 BA  83 56 7B 56 C6 61 D4 A7 
DNA sequence fingerprint =  0E 21 45 FA 7A 11 34 FE  ED DE AD BE EF 8F 10 71
DNA copyright 1962 - 1994 by Jonas Flygare, Copyright yours before IBM does.


Article 15547 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!kauhunen
From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Shape of Things to Come
Date: 29 Aug 1994 16:59:45 GMT
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <33t461$bsl@prime.mdata.fi>
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi

In article ,
Jonas Flygare  wrote:

>Faurisson? That'll be a hoot... Let us know when you have him
>de-kooked enough to string words together into sentences.
>Here in Sweden, (and Finland as well) we've seen quite enough of
>Mr. Faurisson to last us another fifty years.

I agree. Heh heh heh. Jonas, we have obviously seen the
same Tv-document.


.


-- 
Kari Nenonen                    kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi
Maavallintie 4
00430 Helsinki
Finland


Article 15557 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail
From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fritz Berg's Absence
Date: 29 Aug 1994 17:05:18 -0400
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <33tiie$4qk@math.mps.ohio-state.edu>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: math-o.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Just talked with Fritz Berg on the phone today.  He's been busy preparing 
>his speech for next weekend's IHR conference.  Hopefully Bradley, Fritz, 
>and Greg will be hitting the board again after the conference is over.
>
>Just for the fun of it, anybody want to venture a guess on what Fritz's 
>talk is going to be about? (I don't know myself, yet.)  Closest guess gets 
>the coveted "alt.revisionist of the month" award.
>
>                    Ross Vicksell

Hey! This looks like fun.  Can I play?
How about:

"Ten (sort of) not-nice things to say about Adolf so people won't think
we're all Nazis"

"Ten (sort of) nice things to say about nig..., er, negros so people won't
think we're all KKKers"

"Logic and how to misuse it"

"Speed misreading for fun and profit (or, I never saw a quote I couldn't
garble)" 

"How to confuse the issue when you really screw things up"

"Chemistry for fun and profit (or, Why Zyclon-B kills lice but not people)"

"Why the federal income tax is unconstitutional"

"Learning German in three easy steps (or, How to read a German-English
dictionary and not make an ass of yourself)"

"How to get on TV and not make an ass of yourself"

"How to get on the Internet and not make an ass of yourself" 

"How to make money in your spare time selling Zundel's nazi memorabelia"

"How to talk good and influince peple"

"How to pass the GED and get a big raise at work"

"Why communism is a Jewish conspiracy"

"Why capitalism is a Jewish conspiracy"

"Why the US government is a Jewish conspiracy"

"Why everything is a Jewish conspiracy"

"Why everyone who is against us is a Jew"

"How to tell a Jew thousands of miles away on the Internet (and what to call 
him when you do)"

"Why French literature professors make the best chemists"

"Why history majors make the best engineers and chemists"

"Creative arithmetic (or, Where all the Jews went)"

"Why WE are the shining light of the white race"



Article 15629 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 30 Aug 1994 23:18:35 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When will the O.S.I., which appears to be the most dearly beloved U.S.
institution of the holyhoaxers here in alt.revisionism (it's funny, all
that leftist drivel about evil big government and too much inteference in
our lives, etc. goes right out the window when it comes to funding the
slimeballs in the O.S.I., who hunt down poor, almost broke east Europeans
who mistakenly thought that America was a free country: too much listening
to Voice of America probably) get around to investigating all of the
Jewish war criminals in the USA. 
Honest Jew John Sack tells us about one. 

Lola Potok was Kommandant of OSS women's concentration camp at Gleiwitz
(Silesia). Lola was a nice Jewish girl who ran this camp for Germans in
1945. Sack traced her down in her west Hollywood condo, where her various
enterprises are grossing a cool $10 million a year. When Lola realized
Sack was going to publish her story, just imparted to Sack in interviews,
Lola begged, cajoled and then threatened Sack not to do it. "I don't want
that book, and if you start writing it, I'll stop you," said the nice
Jewish concentration camp Kommandant. 

So, holyhoaxers here in alt.revisionism, do you want to call in the tip to
the O.S.I., or are Jewish war criminals somehow different?


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15639 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:38:51 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References:    
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net (Tim McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> > Name one
> > article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
> > subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
> > English translations aren't gonna do it)
> 
> Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> 
> This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> two syllables...?)
> ------------------------

Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 

das Plakat 

You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate

And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
what they like. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly. But, wait till next time,
you dweeb.


Article 15640 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:40:11 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References:    
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> landpost@clark.net (Tim McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> > Name one
> > article in Das Reich or Volkischer Beobachter, to make a small, workable
> > subset, (with German title, references and pg. numbers, you're reliable
> > English translations aren't gonna do it)
> 
> Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> 
> This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> two syllables...?)
> ------------------------

Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 

das Plakat 

You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate

And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
what they like. 


Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net

p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly. But, wait till next time,
you dweeb.


Article 15651 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 31 Aug 1994 01:57:22 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
> --
> It is, indisputably,|copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
> a fact.             |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
>                     |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
>                     |rights are granted or implied.


----------------------------------

Why aren't they hunting down Jewish "vermin" also??

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15652 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!news.duke.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 31 Aug 1994 02:01:38 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com>, mattk@netnews.usl.com
(Kaufman M.E.) wrote:

> Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
> : After the Demjanjuk debacle the OSI should have been legislated out of 
> 
> Debacle? What debacle? I thought old "not-Ivan"'s citizenship
> status was still under debate.
> And, err, Ross, you've got some problem with the OSI hunting down
> these vermin? You've failed to address any of the issues mentioned
> in the posting.
> : existence. In any event , what are they going to do after all the ex 
> : concentration camp guards have died natural or unnatural deaths - start 
> : up on us revisionists?
> :         Ross Vicksell
> 
> Why don't you ask them, Ross? Or better still, get Berg the Village Idiot
> of the IHR to ask. He's so much more entertaining once he get going.
> 
> Matt
> --
> It is, indisputably,|copyright 1994, mattk@summit.novell.com. All rights
> a fact.             |reserved. Permission for reproduction by USENET and like
>                     |free facilities explicitly allowed. No other reproduction
>                     |rights are granted or implied.


----------------------------------

Why aren't they hunting down Jewish "vermin" also??

Tim McCarthy
landpost@clark.net


Article 15655 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail
From: mstein@access3.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Justice Department Moves to Revoke Citizenship of former Nazi Guard
Date: 30 Aug 1994 23:28:21 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <340tcl$pps@access3.digex.net>
References: <1994Aug26.034514.17338@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>  <33qej2$er9@bird.summit.novell.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access3.digex.net

In article ,
  wrote:
>Why aren't they hunting down Jewish "vermin" also??

     Because your SS friends beat them to it.  I can tell how disappointed
you are that you didn't get your chance to help out. 

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


Article 15663 of alt.revisionism:
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: The Fear and Misery of the Third Reich
In-Reply-To: landpost@clark.net's message of 31 Aug 1994 01:38:51 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
	
	
	
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 04:46:39 GMT
Lines: 13


From: landpost@clark.net
>And, yes, I want the German, which of course, the holohoaxers won't
>provide, and if they do, just a small schnitt, that just happens to say
>what they like. 

Um, damned if they do, damned if they don't?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


Article 15694 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!pm005-00.dialip.mich.net!user
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Tim's German (was Re: The Fear and Misery)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 11:53:21 -0400
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References: 
   
   
   
   
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-00.dialip.mich.net

[Jamie wrote:]

> Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> 
> This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> two syllables...?)

landpost@clark.net wrote:

> Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 
> 
> das Plakat 
> 
> You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate

Oh, you meant "Plakat" (poster)?  Since you were talking about an exhibit
in a museum, I thought you meant "Plakette" (plaque).

One doesn't make a "simple typing error" when one mistakes an 'a' for an
'e.'  If I misspell "knowledgeable" as "knowledgeavle," that's a typo,
my finger missed the 'b.'  If I spell it "knowlegible," that's at least
an understandable mistake, I knew the word by pronounciation and was
trying to spell it out.

But if I spell it "kneuledgeable," that is neither a typo nor an attempt
to use a word which I know but whose spelling I am unsure of.  That's
just me showing off my ignorance of the language.

And "Plakat" sounds nothing like "Plaket" in German (if there were such
a word as "Plaket").  You weren't going for it phonetically.  "Plakette"
sounds nothing like "Plaket" either.  (I don't think.  I had a German
waiter correct me, apparently "Omelette" has fewer than four syllables.
I don't suppose "Plakette" is prounounced in two syllables.  But if so,
then I would admit that Tim could have gone for the phonetic
pronounciation, except that he ruled out that possibility when he
said he was going for "Plaket.")

In short, I don't buy your explanation, Tim, and neither does anyone
else, despite your throwing in the occasional German 101 phrase like
"Doch" or "Noch ein mal."  You might as well give it up, Tim, you don't
speak very good German and you're not fooling anyone.

> p.s. I'm too tired now to flame you properly.

Good thing, too.  You sure would have embarrassed yourself.

I notice you had no comment on my original article where I wrote:

> This from the guy who didn't know what the Grimm Brothers' dictionary was.
> 
> This from the guy who insisted that "Reinigung" could not mean a cleansing,
> that it could only mean "laundromat."
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 I speak for no one but myself.


Article 15716 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!ddsw1!redstone.interpath.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!landpost_ppp.clark.net!user
From: landpost@clark.net
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tim's German (was Re: The Fear and Misery)
Date: 31 Aug 1994 23:07:46 GMT
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References:      
NNTP-Posting-Host: landpost_ppp.clark.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

In article ,
k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> [Jamie wrote:]
> 
> > Mr. Tim McCarthy wants the original German!?
> > 
> > This from the guy who wrote "Plaket" instead of "Plakette."  (Maybe he
> > doesn't know how to pronounce German, and remembered "Plakette" as having
> > two syllables...?)
> 
> landpost@clark.net wrote:
> 
> > Where my mistake was a simple typing error, your post is an error. 
> > 
> > das Plakat 
> > 
> > You are even wrong on the plural. die Plakate
> 
> Oh, you meant "Plakat" (poster)?  Since you were talking about an exhibit
> in a museum, I thought you meant "Plakette" (plaque).


Yeah, name one museum with plaques on the wall?? I'm not reading your
E-mail, you little twirp, so don't bother sending more. Got it.


TM
landpost


Article 15726 of alt.revisionism:
Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!pm005-02.dialip.mich.net!user
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tim's German (was Re: The Fear and Misery)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 21:05:33 -0400
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: 
   
   
   
   
   
   
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-02.dialip.mich.net

landpost@clark.net wrote:

> k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> > Oh, you meant "Plakat" (poster)?  Since you were talking about an exhibit
> > in a museum, I thought you meant "Plakette" (plaque).
> 
> Yeah, name one museum with plaques on the wall?? I'm not reading your
> E-mail, you little twirp, so don't bother sending more. Got it.

Um... the University of Chicago Art Museum?  Is this a trick question?

I can assure you, regardless of the likelihood of Plakate or Plaketten
on the walls of museums, there will be no Plaket, because Plaket isn't
a word, now is it, Tim.

Another tip:  when you remove the "weil" from the beginning of a
German phrase, be sure to move the verb back to the second position,
where it belongs.  Otherwise, you might display your ignorance of
German on an international forum.

If I want to be sure you see an article I post, I'll email it to you.
I'm not mail-bombing, I'm sending one article at a time in what's
normally known as an act of courtesy.  If you want to delete it, that's
your business, but I will continue to send it.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 I speak for no one but myself.


Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.