Archive/File: holocaust/usa/codoh rv.0295
Last-Modified: 1995/03/01

From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail Wed Feb  1 09:47:15 PST 1995
Article: 21828 of alt.revisionism
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From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz
Date: 30 Jan 1995 09:55:46 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
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In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
>When the German's evacuated Auschwith they gave the 40,000 inmates their 
>choice of either leaving with them, on foot, in the middle of winter, or 
>waiting for the Russians to take over.  3/4 of them, including Elie 
>Wiesel, chose to go with the Germans.
>
>How come?
>
>                           Ross Vicksell


Ross, to make it easier for you to read the relevant passage in Wiesel's
book "Night", here it is:

     Two days after my operation, there was a rumor going round the camp
that the front had suddenly drawn nearer.  The Red Army, they said, was
advancing on Buna; it was only a matter of hours now.
     We were already accustomed to rumors of this kind.  It was not the
first time a false prophet had foretold to us peace-on-earth,
negotiations-with-the-Red-Cross-for-our-release, or other false rumors...
And often we believed them.  It was an injection on morphine.
     But this time these prophecies seemed more solid.  During these last
few nights, we had heard the guns in the distance.
     My neighbor, the faceless one, said:
     "Don't let yourself be fooled with illusions.  Hitler had made it very
clear that he will annihilate all the Jews before the clock strikes twelve,
before they can hear the last stroke."
     I burst out:
     "What does it matter to you?  Do we have to regard Hitler as a
prophet?"
     His glazed, faded eyes looked at me.  At last he said in a weary voice:
     "I've got more faith in Hitler than in anyone else.  He's the only one
who's kept his promises, all his promises, to the Jewish people."

     At four o-clock on the afternoon of the same day, as usual the bell
summoned all the heads of the blocks to go and report.
     They came back shattered.  they could only just open their lips enough
to say the word: evacuation.  The camp was to be emptied, and we were to be
sent farther back.  Where to?  To somewhere right in the depths of Germany,
to other camps; there was no shortage of them.
     "When?"
     "Tomorrow evening."
     "Perhaps the Russians will arrive first."
     "Perhaps."
     We knew perfectly well that they would not.

     The camp had become a hive.  People ran about, shouting at one another.
In all the blocks, preparations for the journey were going on.  I had
forgotten about my bad foot.  A doctor came into the room and announced:
     "Tomorrow, immediately after nightfall, the camp will set out.  Block
after block.  Patients will stay in the infirmary.  They will not be
evacuated."
     This news made us think.  Were the SS going to leave hundreds of
prisoners to strut about in the hospital blocks, waiting for their
liberators?  Were they going to let the Jews hear the twelfth stroke sound?
Obviously not.
     "All the invalids will be summarily killed," said the faceless one.
"And sent to the crematory in a final batch."
     "The camp is certain to be mined," said another.  "The moment the
evacuation's over, it'll blow up."
  As for me, I was not thinking about death, but I did not want to be
separated from my father.  We had already suffered so much, borne so much
together; this was not the time to be separated.
     I ran outside to look for him.  the snow was thick, and the windows of
the block were veiled with frost.  One show in my hand, because it would not
go onto my right foot, I ran on, feeling neither pain nor cold.
     "What shall we do?"
     My father did not answer.
     "What shall we do, father?"
     He was lost in thought.  The choice was in our hands.  For once we
could decide our fate for ourselves.  We could both stay in the hospital,
where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him entered as a patient or a nurse.
Or else we could follow the others.
     "Well, what shall we do, father?"
     He was silent.
     "Let's be evacuated with the others," I said to him.
     He did not answer.  He looked at my foot.
     "Do you think you can walk?"
     "Yes, I think so."
     "Let's hope that we shan't regret it, Eliezer."
I learned after the war the fate of those who had stayed behind in the
hospital.  They were quite simply liberated by the Russians two days after
the evacuation.

     I did not go back to the hospital again.  I returned to my block.  My
wound was open and bleeding; the snow had grown red where I had trodden.
     The head of the block gave out double rations of bread and margarine,
for the journey.  We could take as many shirts and other clothes as we liked
from the store.
     It was cold.  We got into bed.
     The last night in Buna.  Yet another last night.  the last night at
home, the last hight in the ghetto, the last night in the train, and, now,
the last night in Buna.  How much longer were our lives to be dragged out
from one "last night" to another?
     I did not sleep at all.  Through the frosted panes bursts of red light
could be seen.  Cannon shots split the night-time silence.  How close the
Russians were?  Between them and us--one night, our last night.  There was
whispering from one bed to another: with luck the Russians would be here
before the evacuation.  Hope revived again.
     Someone shouted:
     "Try and sleep.  Gather your strength for the journey."
     This reminded me of my mother's last words of advice in the ghetto.
     But I could not sleep.  My foot felt as if it were burning.

     In the morning, the face of the camp had changed.  Prisoners appeared
in strange outfits: it was like a masquerade.  Everyone had put n several
garments, one on top of the other, in order to keep out the cold.  Poor
mountebanks, wider than they were tall, more dead than alive; poor clowns,
their ghostlike faces emerging from piles of prison clothes!  Buffoons!
     I tried to find a show that was too large.  In vain.  I tore up a
blanket and wrapped my wounded foot in it.  Then I went wandering through
the camp, looking for a little more bread and a few potatoes.
     Some said we were being taken to Czechoslovakia.  No, to Gros-Rosen.
No, to Gleiwitz.  No, to ...
     Two o-clock in the afternoon.  The snow was still coming down thickly.
     the time was passing quickly now.  Dusk had fallen.  The day was
disappearing in a monochrome of gray.
     the head f the block suddenly remembered that he and forgotten to clean
out the block.  He ordered four prisoners to wash the wooden floor ... An
hour before leaving the camp!  Why?  For whom?
     "For the liberating army," he cried.  "So that they'll realize there
were men living here and not pigs."
     "Were we men then?  The block was cleaned from top to bottom, washed
in very corner.
     At six o-clock the bell rang.  The death knell.  The burial.  The
procession was about to begin its march.
     "Form up!  Quickly!"
     In a few moments were were all in rows, by blocks.  Night had fallen.
Everything was in order, according to the prearranged plan.
     The searchlights came on.  Hundreds of armed SS men rose up out of the
darkness, accompanied by sheepdogs.  The snow never ceased.
     The gates of the camp opened.  It seemed that an even darker night was
waiting for us on the other side.
     The first blocks began to march.  We waited.  We had to wait for the
departure of the fifty-six blocks who came before us.  It was very cold.  In
my pocket I had two pieces of bread.  With how much pleasure could I have
eaten them!  But I was not allowed to.  Not yet.
     Our turn was coming: Block 53 ... Block 55 ...
     Block 57, forward march!
     It snowed relentlessly.
     
                                    ----- from "Night"


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail Wed Feb  1 09:47:17 PST 1995
Article: 21832 of alt.revisionism
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From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz
Date: 30 Jan 1995 10:18:16 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Lines: 74
Message-ID: <3givvo$4ht@point.mps.ohio-state.edu>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: point.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
>When the German's evacuated Auschwith they gave the 40,000 inmates their 
>choice of either leaving with them, on foot, in the middle of winter, or 
>waiting for the Russians to take over.  3/4 of them, including Elie 
>Wiesel, chose to go with the Germans.
>
>How come?
>
>                           Ross Vicksell


Ross, since I know just much all you net.nazis love being reminded that Mel
Mermelstein got $90,000 from you, I am also including the relevant passage
from his book, "By Bread Alone":

     As the new year, 1945, arrived we began to hear word of Russian
advances in the East which brought them near to the site of our camp.  Our
hopes of liberation began to rise, but were soon dashed when, on the 17th of
January, it was announced that we would be moving westward ... on foot, we
were told.
     The announcement was made official by the Kapos.  They said that we
would be issued food and clothing rations for the move.  In the meantime the
opportunity to "organize" was too great to resist.  Everyone rushed toward
the warehouse; I followed and when I got there it was in chaos.  Prisoners
were throwing bread and sugar out of the windows of the storerooms.  I caught
three loaves of bread and ran to the barracks, hiding two in my pack and
quietly eating the third.  It was almost as if God had answered my prayers
for enough to fill my stomach.  Suddenly it was heaven.  There was no fear
of your bread being stolen, or that the Kapos would strike you.  There was a
sudden atmosphere of ease, jubilation.  I returned with a calm to my
barracks to rest, until I remembered that I had to have gloves and a shawl
for the journey.  So I returned to the warehouse and found gloves, a sweater
and even an extra blanket.
     At dawn the whole camp, two thousand in all, was lined up in groups and
then columns of three for the march.  The order to move came on a bitter,
cold morning.  Bram, Joey, Meyer, David, Willie and I each inspecting the
other's packs.  With broad smiles, we adjusted our blankets around us.  A
last head count was made, we were issued another loaf of bread, and then we
awaited the arrival of the Camp Commandant and his force of SS troopers.
     Snow began to fall as we stood there.  Bram lectured us as we waited,
warning that it would be a tough journey and that we were to pretend that we
were soldiers.  "Walk straight.  Let your hands swing freely at your side.
Remember the soldiering lessons from back home, this is the time to use
them.  Shoulders back, and keep your heads high and straight, and breathe
freely."  He was moving around like a lieutenant advising his troops.  His
past experience as a soldier came in handy now.
     "Don't look behind you.  Always look to the front, always ahead,
straight ahead.  I know it's tough, but you've got to do all you can to just
keep moving.  We don't have enough strength to help others who are
faltering," he continued.  "It'll just get you a bullet in the neck.  These
bastards shoot first and ask questions later.  We gotten this far -- we've
just got to make it!  Look, the Russians are on our heels, and their tanks
will be eating up the kilometers a lot faster than us."  His voice grew to a
pitch; he wanted us all to survive.  "Please keep your minds on number one.
Please listen to me, all of you, we've got to make it.  We must prove it to
ourselves that if we make it this far, we shall make it home."
     My ears buzzed and my eyes glazed.  I didn't know what to say.
     He wasn't too happy with some of the enervated responses, "For God's
sake," he kept shouting, "don't fall behind.  Stick together, all of you.
Do you hear me?  Stick together.  There's got to be an end to this.  It
can't go on much longer, and I want to see you alive at the end.  Don't let
them have the victory, boys.  Somebody has to live.  Don't you see that?"
     Heavily armed and well-dressed soldiers arrived.  The troops took up
their stations on both sides of our lines, while a sizable number brought up
the rear.  As I looked behind, I saw the infirmary, with numerous sick
patients inside; I couldn't help wondering what their fat would be.
     It was time for us to leave, and Commandant Moll stood before us.  "All
of those who cannot walk, drop out now" he commanded, and "Anyone who shows
weakness on the road will be shot.  Do not be foolish enough to try to
escape.  You'll be shot on the spot."  He was brief and to the point.  then
he gave the order we had been waiting for -- "Move out! ... Forward
March!!!" 


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!canada!vortex.netbistro.com!fonorola!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!scripps.edu!misrael Thu Feb  2 04:56:15 PST 1995
Article: 21849 of alt.revisionism
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From: misrael@scripps.edu (Mark Israel)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Majdanek
Date: 25 Jan 1995 12:40:23 GMT
Organization: The Scripps Research Institute, La Jolla, California, USA
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In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) forwards from David Cole:

} So what was said in Europe? Well, Curator Kranz, when confronted with my
} points about his "gas chambers," had to admit that he doesn't believe 
} that the big chamber, chamber 1, was EVER used homicidally (I mean, it's
} SO friggin' obvious). He sheepishly admitted that chamber 1 wasn't a 
} homicidal gas chamber, and, moreover, he could present no proof that any
} of the other rooms were used homicidally, either. But, ever the 
} optimist, he said that "one day" he'd get around to researching those 
} rooms, and then he'd find some evidence of homicidal usage! He's been 
} the curator at Majdanek for ten years.  Yet he's apparently been too 
} busy to prove his own gas chambers (this is understandable, since 
} Lublin is such a swingin' place)! What's worse, Kranz continues to show
} off chamber 1 as a homicidal gas chamber, even though he doesn't believe
} it is.
}
} [...]
}
} If Tomasz Kranz weakened the Majdanek homicidal gas chamber theory, 
} Pressac damn near snuffed it out entirely. Of course, Pressac 
} understands that it's ridiculous to even CONSIDER homicidal gassings in 
} chamber 1, but he ALSO doubts (or is that "denies," Ms. Lipstadt?) 
} homicidal gassings in chambers 3 and 4! And his evidence for homicidal 
} gassings in chamber 2? "Ah, Monsieur Cole," he pointed out (in French, 
} of course - these are his translated comments), "the carbon monoxide 
} piping!" 
}
} "But, my dear Monsieur Pressac," I responded, "you are no doubt aware 
} that this piping leads nowhere, and is just tacked onto the wall?"
}
} Pressac paused a moment. He bowed his head. Not out of respect to me, 
} I'm sure. He was just sorry his last line of defense had crumbled. "You
} are right," he said. "It leads nowhere. It couldn't be part of any 
} working 'carbon monoxide gas chamber.' It was probably added after 
} liberation."

   Hi, Ross!  Could you please supply us with the postal addresses of
Kranz and Pressac, so that we may get their sides of these remarkable
stories?

} Yet scholars around the world continue to use Pressac's gas chamber book
} (if they're lucky enough to have one of the few copies), mainly because,
} even if one disagrees with Pressac's conclusions, his book is STILL the
} best (and the only) single source for the blueprints, construction 
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
} slips, alteration plans, and inter-office communiques regarding the 
} Auschwitz "gas chambers"

   And which blueprints would those be?  The ones that Greg Raven keeps
saying don't exist?

--
misrael@scripps.edu			Mark Israel


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Article: 21852 of alt.revisionism
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From: lnyman@info.census.gov (Lisa Nyman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz
Date: 30 Jan 1995 14:32:49 -0500
Organization: US Census Bureau
Lines: 18
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References:  <3givvo$4ht@point.mps.ohio-state.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: info.census.gov

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
>When the German's evacuated Auschwith they gave the 40,000 inmates their 
>choice of either leaving with them, on foot, in the middle of winter, or 
>waiting for the Russians to take over.  3/4 of them, including Elie 
>Wiesel, chose to go with the Germans.
>
>How come?

Obviously they were all done using the swimming pool.


-- 
Lisa W. Nyman   301-457-1056   | Back by popular demand: |
--------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|
SF-19902.95-xy7/23(g) Standard Disclaimer on file |    Life's too short to  |
in the Central Office. I speak for me, Not U.S.   |   wear ugly underwear.  |


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Article: 21867 of alt.revisionism
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From: dzk@cs.brown.edu (Danny Keren)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Majdanek
Date: 23 Jan 1995 21:12:47 GMT
Organization: Brown University
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <3g164f$8qu@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
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#             COMMON SENSE ABOUT THE MAJDANEK "GAS CHAMBERS"

That should be "COMMON 'REVISIONIST' SENSE", actually.

#                            By David Cole

# But Leuchter's "engineering report" on the gas chambers, that 
# is to say his technical examination of those rooms, his attempt 
# to see if homicidal gassings could have been possible there, is 
# junk. Totally useless. He misses all the important stuff and 
# comes to inaccurate conclusions about the stuff he DOES 
# concentrate on. He misses things that a three year old could 
# notice. 

Hey, I said it first! :-)

# The ceilings in chambers 2 and 4 are low enough so that the 
# Zyklon B induction holes could have been blocked by the victims. 
# What would have stopped the inmates from blocking the holes?

I suppose he means that the victims could raise their hands
and block the holes via which the Zyklon was dropped. There are
a few obvious problems with this amazing theory:

1) They would have to be expecting the Zyklon to fall down,
   and to block all the holes simultaneously. That's hard to
   imagine.

2) They would have to hermetically seal the holes with their
   hands. Now, Zyklon releases HCN, one of the most lethal
   gases around. The hotter it is, the faster the HCN 
   evaporates. At the temperature of the human body, it
   evaporates VERY quickly. It's very hard to imagine how
   someone could hermetically block the small Zyklon-B
   pellets, while they were releasing the HCN very quickly.
   The concentration of the gas at the location of his hands
   (supposedly blocking the Zyklon) would have been orders
   of magnitude higher than the lethal concentration, and since
   his hands would have been rather close to his head, he would
   die on the spot.

   It is true that HCN is slightly lighter than air, and some
   of it would rise upwards, but after the insertion hole
   would have been covered, the gas would start to spread all
   over. That's what gases do. They spread.

At a first glance, Cole's theory make about as much sense as
claiming that the victims of the Einstazgruppen could have
blocked the shots fired at them with their bare hands.
Knowing more about the chambers - like the size of the insertion
holes and their exact height - would help.

The rest of this article needs to be looked at - he is correct
about one thing: the Maidanek gas chambers have hardly been
studied. And they should be studied. 


-Danny Keren.



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Article: 21870 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown)
Subject: Re: State Religion?
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@iglou.com (news)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services
References:     <3ggbp0$1mv@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 03:03:06 GMT
Lines: 14

In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross
Vicksell) wrote:

> [...deletia...]

> Last I heard, Wiesel's Germanophobia was still intact...

Is that a professional diagnosis, Dr. Vicksell?

JGB

=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown                                   jeff_brown@pol.com
 "What's going to happen?"   "Something wonderful..."   -- '2010'


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Article: 21876 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: State Religion?
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 04:57:25 GMT
Lines: 13

Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) wrote:
: In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross
: Vicksell) wrote:

: > [...deletia...]

: > Last I heard, Wiesel's Germanophobia was still intact...

: Is that a professional diagnosis, Dr. Vicksell?

So what do YOU call a person who refuses to set foot in Germany?

                  Ross Vicksell


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Article: 21878 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Ms. Jeffrey's Remarks
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3gisuh$pnd@info.census.gov>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 05:12:50 GMT
Lines: 23

Lisa Nyman (lnyman@info.census.gov) wrote:
: [Sorry for the repost - I think my other posting may have
: gotten lost.]

: "I apologize, especially to Holocaust survivors and their
: families, for any aid and comfort that my leaked remarks
: and the pulicity attending them unintentionally might
: have given to the deluded crazies of revisionism and for
: any anxiety that one of their ilk might possibly have been
: appointed as House historian, however preposterous it is
: on its face."

: Christina Jeffrey, The Washington Post, Jan 24, 1995 pA16

: -- 
: Lisa W. Nyman   301-457-1056   | Back by popular demand: |
: --------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|
: SF-19902.95-xy7/23(g) Standard Disclaimer on file |    Life's too short to  |
: in the Central Office. I speak for me, Not U.S.   |   wear ugly underwear.  |

Reckon she'll get her job back now?

        Ross Vioksell


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Article: 21879 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: ashes
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:  
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 05:43:56 GMT
Lines: 21

Barry Shein (bzs@world.std.com) wrote:

: >"The Broken, lichen-encrusted remains of furnaces and gas chambers can
: >still be found on hundreds of acres filled with the ashes of the victims
: >at Birkenau, which is adjacent to Auschwitz." 
: >
: >              - NYT, Jan. 26, 1995, p. A10
: >
: >But I remember seeing here that these ashes are long gone.  What's the
: >story? 
: >
: >                    Ross Vicksell

: The story is you are too dim-witted to recognize a simple literary
: allusion.


Thanks. I think I get it now.  Reminds me of Rudolf Vrba's book "I Cannot
Forget," which he finally had to point out to Doug Christie was "an
artistic picture...not a document for the court." 



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Article: 21880 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Can Vicksell Read? (was: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz)
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:  <3gg974$95i@agate.berkeley.edu> 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 05:57:38 GMT
Lines: 27

Barry Shein (bzs@world.std.com) wrote:

: From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
: >Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
: >: Ross Vicksell  wrote:
: >
: >: # When the German's evacuated Auschwith they gave the 40,000 inmates
: >: # their choice of either leaving with them, on foot, in the middle
: >: # of winter, or waiting for the Russians to take over.  3/4 of them,
: >: # including Elie Wiesel, chose to go with the Germans.
: >: #
: >: # How come?
: >
: >: Wiesel says that the prisoners
: >: feared the SS would murder anyone who chose to stay behind.
: >
: >Were their fears justified?

: How would anyone know if they didn't stay behind?

: According to Yahil around 7600 prisoners were left behind (1/18/45)
: but mostly due to their being too sick to march out. When the Polish
: Red Cross arrived around 3 weeks later (2/6/45) they found 3800
: prisoners still alive.

I wonder what was happening in the interim?  What kind of medical care 
were the Russians providing for the sick inmates?


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Article: 21882 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Ross Vicksell
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <1995Jan10.225026.19216@hobbes.kzoo.edu>  <3g3ar4$dnf@jabba.cybernetics.net>  <3g8psm$1p9@jabba.cybernetics.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 06:13:05 GMT
Lines: 16

Chip Salzenberg (chip@cybernetics.net) wrote:
: According to codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell):
: >Chip Salzenberg (chip@cybernetics.net) wrote:
: >: You're participating.  You said you don't do that.
: >
: >I said "not necessarily."  Check with Ken Mcvay if you don't believe me.

: Very well.

: Ross, if all those Nazi documents are forged, where are the forgers?
: Why hasn't even *one* person come forward to earn big bucks on Hard Copy?

You lost me.  What big bucks?  From some muckraking paper?  Daring 
talkmaster?  Uh huh.

                    Ross Vicksell


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Article: 21883 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net> <3ftmel$6p4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 06:37:36 GMT
Lines: 10

I was talking with Fritz Berg about why the Germans didn't use DDT. This 
is what he said:

Of course the Germans knew how to make DDT, but I.G. Farben had something
better, called Lauseno-neu, which was louse-specific.  And they knew that
DDT was potentially harmful to the environment, twenty years before the
Americans woke up to that fact.  The reason they didn't make much
Lauseno-neu was because the Allied bombers knocked out the plant where it
was being manufactured. 



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Article: 21914 of alt.revisionism
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From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Vicksell Read? (was: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz)
Date: 31 Jan 1995 22:45:39 GMT
Organization: Mits BBS, Helsinki, Finland (40+ Nodes +358-0-4582066)
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3gmeij$2s5@prime.mdata.fi>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:

>Were their fears justified?


Yes. In spite of the fact that SS did not kill those
who decided to stay in the camp, their fears were
justified. Or do you really think that Jews in
Auschwitz in 1945 had some reason to believe
that SS did not want to harm them by any means?
Where are you aiming with your mindless questions,
Mr Vicksell?

	
-- 
Kari Nenonen   #  WANHOJEN HERROJEN TIETEISKIRJALLISUUDEN NAUTISKELUHUONE
Maavallintie 4 #        "Parempi katon  reunalla  kuin 
00430 Helsinki #         toraisan vaimon huonetoverina" 
Finland        #                         Raamattu


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Article: 21930 of alt.revisionism
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From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can Vicksell Read? (final days of Auschwitz)
Date: 31 Jan 1995 20:15:43 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Lines: 164
Message-ID: <3gmnbv$6rb@point.mps.ohio-state.edu>
References:  <3gg974$95i@agate.berkeley.edu> <3gge2k$87m@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: point.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
>: Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
>: # When the German's evacuated Auschwith they gave the 40,000 inmates
>: # their choice of either leaving with them, on foot, in the middle
>: # of winter, or waiting for the Russians to take over.  3/4 of them,
>: # including Elie Wiesel, chose to go with the Germans.
>: #
>: # How come?
>
>: Wiesel says that the prisoners
>: feared the SS would murder anyone who chose to stay behind.
>
>Were their fears justified?


Ross, since you seem so interested in Auschwitz, I did a little research for you.

The gassing of prisoners ended in the fall of 1944:

       Himmler himself seemed to have acquired illusions that he could somehow
  supplant Hitler and negotiate an armistice.  He sent envoys to suggest these
  illusions in neutral Stockholm.  He seemed to have denied to himself the
  fact that Auschwitz would be discovered, and that the discovery would damn
  him.  Very few of the Nazi leaders acted rationally in these last months of
  the war.  Hitler himself rarely emerged from his underground bunker.  To the
  contradictory orders of gassing prisoners or saving them for labor was now
  added a third policy of moving them from camp to camp, often without food or
  shelter.  While thousands were still being shipped to Auschwitz (one of the
  very last transports from Holland brought Anne Frank and her family),
  thousands more were being shipped from Auschwitz back to Germany to work in
  armaments factories.
       At some point during the early fall of 1944 - probably between
  mid-September and mid-October - Himmler decided to end the gassing.  It did
  not end immediately, for the machinery was not easy to stop, but on October
  28, when you another 1,700 Jews from Theresienstadt were crowded into the
  gas chambers and put to death, they became the last victims of Zyklon B.  A
  trainload of Slovakian Jews who arrived from Bratislava five days later were
  sent directly to the quarantine camp, with all their luggage.  Even this did
  not mean that the killing had stopped entirely - SS courts still imposed
  sentences of summary execution, and prisoners still died of starvation and
  dysentery - but the new edict did mean that the wholesale slaughter had
  ended.  On November 26, an order from Himmler declared: "The crematoria at
  Auschwitz are to be dismantled ..."
			    --- The Kingdom of Auschwitz, Otto Friedrich, p. 78

Then came the end:

       The Soviet Army, which had been stalled for weeks within about fifty
  miles of Auschwitz, finally launched a surprise offensive on January 12,
  1945.  Within a week, its artillery was pounding the outskirts of the camp,
  and shortly after midnight of January 18 the Nazis ordered a general
  evacuation.  They dynamited the brick walls of Crematorium V, the last one
  still standing.  They set fire to "Canada".  It was bout ten degrees below
  zero when the SS began routing the ragged prisoners out onto the
  snow-covered fields, and bullying them into the customary ranks of five.
  Even then, there were long delays, roll calls, shots and confusion.  Several
  thousand prisoners in the camp hospital argued about whether to join the
  evacuation, and those who wanted to flee fought over the few pairs of wooden
  clogs that the authorities had left them to use in going to the latrines.
  Among the SS too there were arguments about whether to kill everyone who
  couldn't march.  There had been various plans drawn up for the complete
  annihilation of the camp and all remaining prisoners, but nobody had ever
  formally issued the orders to carry out this final massacre.  By now, the SS
  men were thinking mainly of flight from the dreaded Russians, so they
  decided simply to leave the sick and injured behind.  Or perhaps no one
  decided anything, and the sick were just abandoned in the chaos of the
  four-day evacuation.
			    --- p. 87

And here is a summary of the last few days at Auschwitz before its
liberation:

  Jan 17:
    The last evening roll-call took place.  The strength of the camp was as
    follows:
    KL Auschwitz     - 15,317 men prisoners
	     and     - 16,577 women prisoners
    KL Monowitz      - 10,223 men prisoners
    in the sub-camps - 22,800 men prisoners
		 and -  2,095 women prisoners
    --------------------------------------
	       total - 67,012
    In the evening SS-men started burning camp registers and dossiers in the
    various offices of the camp and in the hospital blocks.  The SS camp
    physician, Dr. Mengele packed his materials collected by experimenting on
    twins and departed with them for Berlin.  At night preparations were begun
    for the evacuation of the prisoners from the various camps.  The Resistance
    Movement Camp Organization gave the following facts in its last report:
    "Dear Comrades, We have lived to see the evacuation.  The SS in panic -
    drunk.  We manoeuvre as well as our political possibilities permit, to make
    the march on foot as bearable as possible and to save the sick, allegedly
    staying behind, from being liquidated.  Such designs had existed, perhaps
    they still do exist."
  Jan 18:
    The evacuation of KL Auschwitz had started in the small hours.  At short
    intervals columns of 500 women prisoners with children were leaving the
    camp, escorted by SS-men.  Columns of men prisoners were leaving Birkenau in
    the afternoon.  The last group left the base camp Auschwitz after midnight.
    The route of the evacuation march led to Pszczyna, from where the prisoners
    were directed by two routes to Wodzislaw in Silesia.  The first columns of
    women prisoners had reached Wodzislaw on January 21, while men prisoners got
    there on January 22.  All were loaded into uncovered vans, used to carry
    coal, and were taken to concentration camps in the Reich.  The prisoners
    from KL Monowitz were led in their evacuation march in groups of 1,000
    persons.  Their evacuation route led to Gliwice which was the rallying point
    for other Auschwitz sub-camps, too.  On January 21, the prisoners rallying
    in Gliwice were taken by trains to the concentration camps Buchenwald,
    Dachau and Sachsenhausen.
  Jan 19:
    The sick, the weak and children had remained in KL Auschwitz.  There were
    4,428 women prisoners and girls and 169 boys in the women's camp at
    Birkenau.  In the men's camp at Birkenau circa 2,000 prisoners, in the base
    camp circa 1,250 prisoners, at Monowitz circa 850 prisoners.  In the small
    hours the Soviet airplanes bombed industrial targets in the town of
    Oswiecim.  The power station was wrecked and so the prisoners had to go
    without light, water and food.
  Jan 20:
    SS_Sturmbannfuehrer Kraus received from the Head of the SS and Police of the
    Wroclaw District, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Schmauser, the order to liquidate
    all prisoners who could not be evacuated on foot.  The SS-men, who were
    plundering the camp at Birkenau, had led from the camp about 200 Jewish
    women prisoners and shot them outside the camp gates.  On leaving the camp
    they blasted crematoria II and III.
  Jan 23:
    In the evening the SS-men set fire to a pyre with the corpses of prisoners,
    lying beside crematorium V, then they set file to 30 barracks-magazines with
    looted property, the so-called "Canada".  The barracks were burning for
    several successive days.
  Jan 24:
    SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Kraus arrived at the camp with an SS detachment.  He
    shot 3 prisoners in the camp kitchen.
  Jan 25:
    A detachment of the SD (Security Service) arrived at the camp.  Together
    with the SS detachment they intended to liquidate the prisoners who were still
    alive.  While they were forming columns of prisoners they were notified by
    liaison that the Soviet Army was liable to encircle them.  So they left the
    prisoners in columns and hurriedly drove away in cars.
  Jan 26:
    The SS detachment, detailed to obliterate traces of crimes, blasted the
    last, i.e., the fifth crematorium at Birkenau at 1 a.m.  Fighting was
    already going on in the neighbourhood of Oswiecim.
  Jan 27:
    The first Soviet soldier from a reconnoitering detachment appeared in the
    grounds of the camp hospital in KL Monowitz in the morning.  In the
    afternoon Soviet soldiers entered the town of Oswiecim.  There was a fight
    going on in the foreland near the Auschwitz base camp.  2 Soviet soldiers
    fell at its gate.  At 3 p.m. small groups of Soviet scouts entered the camps
    at Birkenau and Auschwitz and were joyfully welcomed by the liberated
    prisoners.  After clearing the adjoining terrains of mines, the 92nd
    Infantry Division (of the 59th Army of the Ukrainian Front) commanded by
    Col. M. Wiongradow, entered the camps.  In the grounds of the former KL
    Auschwitz there lay approximately 600 corpses of men and women prisoners,
    who had either died or been killed.  When the Soviet Army had entered the
    camp, there were about 1,200 men prisoners at Auschwitz, still living, about
    4,000 women prisoners and 1,800 men prisoners at Birkenau and about 650 men
    prisoners at Monowitz.  they were ill and exhausted, so that the lives of
    many of them could no more be saved.
			    --- From the History of KL Auschwitz, (no editor)
                                "Most Important Events in the History of the
                                Concentration Camp Auschwitz-Birkenau" 
                                Danuta Czech, p. 215-217


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Article: 21932 of alt.revisionism
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From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ashes
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 13:23:58 -0500
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 17
Message-ID: 
References: 
   
   
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-01.dialip.mich.net

codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) wrote:

> Thanks. I think I get it now.  Reminds me of Rudolf Vrba's book "I Cannot
> Forget," which he finally had to point out to Doug Christie was "an
> artistic picture...not a document for the court."

Gee, imagine that, someone wrote a book for the public without realizing
that it should double as a court document.

Discussion of evidence that _does_ prove the Holocaust happened takes
place in this forum almost continually, Mr. Vicksell.  Any time you want
to jump in, you are welcome to -- as you know.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "The Jewish people will be exterminated...it's in our program."  - Himmler
 "Until you find a reference to gas chambers, you can forget about long,
  drawn-out discussions of Himmler's speeches."                     - Raven


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Article: 21933 of alt.revisionism
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From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 13:37:04 -0500
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>
   <3ftmel$6p4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
   
   
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-01.dialip.mich.net

codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) wrote:

: I was talking with Fritz Berg about why the Germans didn't use DDT. This 
: is what he said:
: 
: Of course the Germans knew how to make DDT, but I.G. Farben had something
: better [...] and they knew that DDT was potentially harmful to the
: environment

I see:  concentration camps were a nice place to spend the war, and the
National Socialists were really the forerunners of the Green Party.  It's
all clear to me now.

Ross, would you classify Mr. Berg as a "revisionist scholar"?
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "The Jewish people will be exterminated...it's in our program."  - Himmler
 "Until you find a reference to gas chambers, you can forget about long,
  drawn-out discussions of Himmler's speeches."                     - Raven


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Article: 21935 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3fogb1$hjj@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3g105d$o9l@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com>  <3gfk1o$m6c@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 05:41:06 GMT
Lines: 37

Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
: Ross Vicksell  wrote:

: # The reward Mermelstein received was for the mental anguish he 
: # suffered from being called a liar, not for any proof of gassings 
: # he produced in court. 

: This is a lie. Mr. Mermelstein was awarded the 50,000 dollars
: the IHR stated it would pay someone who proved gassings
: took place in Auschwitz, plus 40,000 for mental anguish.


: -Danny Keren.


For those of you who don't know who Mel Mermelstein is, suffice it to say 
that he's a professional Auschwitz Survivor, like Elie Wiesel.  There's a 
nice book about the long legal battle between Mermelstein and the IHR and 
the ultimate defeat of Mermelstein.  It's called "Best Witness" and it 
is/was available from Liberty Lobby in DC.  I recommend it; it's 
well-written.  You should be able to order it on the phone, if it's still 
in stock: 1(202)546-3787.

I quote from it:

"Neither the $90,000, nor any part of it, constituted payment of any 
reward offer, and it was so noted on the checks paid to Mermelstein and 
his attorney.

Furthermore, the terms under which the reward offer was made were never
satisfied; Mermelstein did not submit proof of gassings at Auschwitz, and
the adjudication of his claim on the reward was, of course, prevented from
proceeding due to the litigation ... The settlement with Mermelstein was
an out of court settlement that was strongly urged by the settlement
conference judge and was not the payment of any reward offer."

              Best Witness, p. 81


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Article: 21936 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Ms. Jeffrey's Remarks
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3gml4n$6ovk@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 05:46:38 GMT
Lines: 33

Donald Moffitt (EVRX36A@prodigy.com) wrote:
: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) wrote:
: >
: >Lisa Nyman (lnyman@info.census.gov) wrote:
: >: [Sorry for the repost - I think my other posting may have
: >: gotten lost.]
: >
: >: "I apologize, especially to Holocaust survivors and their
: >: families, for any aid and comfort that my leaked remarks
: >: and the pulicity attending them unintentionally might
: >: have given to the deluded crazies of revisionism and for
: >: any anxiety that one of their ilk might possibly have been
: >: appointed as House historian, however preposterous it is
: >: on its face."
: >
: >: Christina Jeffrey, The Washington Post, Jan 24, 1995 pA16
: >
: >: -- 
: >: Lisa W. Nyman   301-457-1056   | Back by popular 
: demand: |
: >: --------------------------------------------------|---------------------
: ----|
: >: SF-19902.95-xy7/23(g) Standard Disclaimer on file |    Life's too 
: short to  |
: >: in the Central Office. I speak for me, Not U.S.   |   wear ugly 
: underwear.  |
: >
: >Reckon she'll get her job back now?
: >
: >        Ross Vioksell

: I wonder.  Why not call her again and ask her?



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Article: 21939 of alt.revisionism
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From: joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: State Religion?
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 21:09:26
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
Lines: 12
Message-ID: 
References:     <3ggbp0$1mv@ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: host-73.dialup.winternet.com
X-Newsreader: Trumpet for Windows [Version 1.0 Rev A]

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>Last I heard, Wiesel's Germanophobia was still intact; he refuses to set 
>foot in Germany.

How petty of him, eh? 

Here's a nickel; buy a clue.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Rosenberg       | For news about upcoming books,  | My opinions are mine.
joelr@winternet.com  | finger joelr@winternet.com      | Whose are yours?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!iglou!dyn004.slip.iglou.com!user Sat Feb  4 18:37:46 PST 1995
Article: 21943 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!iglou!dyn004.slip.iglou.com!user
From: jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown)
Subject: Re: State Religion?
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@iglou.com (news)
Organization: IgLou Internet Services
References:  
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 04:40:57 GMT
Lines: 27

In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross
Vicksell) wrote:

> Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) wrote:
> : In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross
> : Vicksell) wrote:
> 
> : > [...deletia...]
> 
> : > Last I heard, Wiesel's Germanophobia was still intact...
> 
> : Is that a professional diagnosis, Dr. Vicksell?
> 
> So what do YOU call a person who refuses to set foot in Germany?

I call him "a person who refuses to set foot in Germany".

I call your reply an evasion.

Answer the question, Vicksell: are you providing a professional diagnosis
of Elie Weisel's mental state?

JGB

=====================================================================
Jeffrey G. Brown                                   jeff_brown@pol.com
 "What's going to happen?"   "Something wonderful..."   -- '2010'


From oneb!kmcvay Sun Feb  5 05:16:00 PST 1995
Article: 21944 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
References:  <3gfk1o$m6c@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Feb05.023742.13807@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 95 02:37:42 GMT

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>For those of you who don't know who Mel Mermelstein is, suffice it to say 
>that he's a professional Auschwitz Survivor, like Elie Wiesel.  There's a 
>nice book about the long legal battle between Mermelstein and the IHR and 
>the ultimate defeat of Mermelstein.  It's called "Best Witness" and it 
>in stock: 1(202)546-3787.
>
>I quote from it:
>
>"Neither the $90,000, nor any part of it, constituted payment of any 
>reward offer, and it was so noted on the checks paid to Mermelstein and 
>his attorney.
>
>Furthermore, the terms under which the reward offer was made were never
>satisfied; Mermelstein did not submit proof of gassings at Auschwitz, and
>the adjudication of his claim on the reward was, of course, prevented from
>proceeding due to the litigation ... The settlement with Mermelstein was
>an out of court settlement that was strongly urged by the settlement
>conference judge and was not the payment of any reward offer."
>
>              Best Witness, p. 81



		 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
		       FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

MEL MERMELSTEIN.                )    No. C 356 542
         Plaintiff,             )
vs.                             )    JUDGMENT
                                )
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL        )
REVIEW, et al.                  )
         Defendants.            )

     Pursuant to the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment executed on July 22,
1985, the Court renders the following judgment:

    1.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
and each of them, are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff MEL
MERMELSTEIN for the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars ($150,000.00),
reduced to the sum of Ninety Thousand Dollars ($90,000.00) payable as
follows:
       (a) Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) on August 1, 1985, and
delivered to the law offices of ALLRED, MAROKO, GOLDBERG & RIBAKOFF;
       (b)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on September 1, 1985;
       (c)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on October 1, 1985.
    2.  Should any of the installments not be made by the defendants against
whom judgment herein is entered within the time period provided, plaintiff,
at his sole option and discretion, shall have the following options:
       (a) To rescind the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment and proceed to
trial and any payments received by plaintiff to that date from defendants
shall not be returned to said defendants; or
       (b) Plaintiff may request entry of Judgment against each of said
defendants, jointly or severally, in the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand
Dollars ($150,000.00).
    3.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
shall issue and execute, by a duly authorized representative, a Letter of
Apology to Mel Mermelstein, as follows:
  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
  apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
  Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
  suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
  the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
  Auschwitz".

DATED: AUG 5, 1985

                                          ROBERT A. WENKE, JUDGE
                                          SUPERIOR COURT

APPROVED AS TO FORM AND CONTENT:

G. G. BAUMEN
Attorney for Defendants
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW,
LEGION FOR SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM,
ELISABETH CARTO and NOONTIDE PRESS

VON ESCH & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys for Defendants
LIBERTY LOBBY and WILLIS CARTO


*****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****  B  *****


			    STATEMENT OF RECORD
				    AND
		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

     "WHEREAS, the Legion for Survival of Freedom, and the Institute for
Historical Review, sent by letter dated November 20, 1980, directly to Mel
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald, an exclusive
reward offer in a letter marked "'personal'" dated November 20, 1980,
offering Mr. Mermelstein a $50,000 exclusive reward for "'proof that Jews
were gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz'" "and further stating that if Mr.
Mermelstein did not respond to the reward offer "'very soon"', "the
Institute for Historical Review would ' publicize that fact to the mass
media' ..."
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein formally applied for said $50,000 reward on
December 18, 1980; and
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein now contends that the Institute for
Historical Review knew, or should have known, from Mr. Mermelstein's letter
to the editor of the Jerusalem Post dated Autust 17, 1980, that Mr.
Mermelstein contended he was a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald; knew, or should have known, that Mr. Mermelstein contended that
his mother and two sisters were gassed to death at Auschwitz; and knew, or
should have known, of his contention that at dawn on May 22, 1944, he
observed his mother and two sisters, among other women and childred, being
lured and driven into the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, which he later
discovered to be Gas Chamber No. 5; and
     "WHEREAS, on October 9, 1981, the parties in dispute in the litigation
filed cross-motions for summary judgment resulting in the court, per the
Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, taking judicial notice as follows:
  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
  452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
  immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
  indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz contend that
they suffered severe emotional distress resulting from said reward offer and
subsequent conduct of the Institute of Historical Review; and
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom now contend that in offering such reward there was no intent to
offend, embarrass or cause emotional strain to anyone, including Mr.
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald Concentration
Camps of World War II, and a person who lost his father, mother and two
sisters who also were inmates of Auschwitz;
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom should have been aware that the reward offer would cause Mr.
Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz to suffer severe emotional
distress which the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom, now recognize is regretable and abusive to survivors of
Auschwitz.

		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
Auschwitz".

DATED: 7/24/85             G. G. Baumen
                           Attorney for Defendants
                           Legion For Survival of Freedom,
                           Institute for Historical Review,
                           Noontide Press, and Elisabeth Carto

DATED: 7/24/85             MARK F. VON ESCH
                           Attorneys for Defendants
                           Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto


-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                     kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.globalx.net!pagesat.net!dfw.net!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs Sun Feb  5 05:16:01 PST 1995
Article: 21946 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.globalx.net!pagesat.net!dfw.net!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: State Religion?
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Tue, 31 Jan 1995 04:57:25 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 07:49:16 GMT
Lines: 22


>Jeffrey G. Brown (jeff_brown@pol.com) wrote:
>: In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross
>: Vicksell) wrote:
>
>: > [...deletia...]
>
>: > Last I heard, Wiesel's Germanophobia was still intact...
>
>: Is that a professional diagnosis, Dr. Vicksell?
>
>So what do YOU call a person who refuses to set foot in Germany?
>
>                  Ross Vicksell

French?

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.globalx.net!pagesat.net!dfw.net!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs Sun Feb  5 05:16:02 PST 1995
Article: 21947 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.globalx.net!pagesat.net!dfw.net!convex!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Can Vicksell Read? (was: Re: The Liberation of Auschwitz)
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Tue, 31 Jan 1995 05:57:38 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References:  <3gg974$95i@agate.berkeley.edu>
	 
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 07:51:37 GMT
Lines: 21


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) [responding to me]
>: >Were their fears justified?
>
>: How would anyone know if they didn't stay behind?
>
>: According to Yahil around 7600 prisoners were left behind (1/18/45)
>: but mostly due to their being too sick to march out. When the Polish
>: Red Cross arrived around 3 weeks later (2/6/45) they found 3800
>: prisoners still alive.
>
>I wonder what was happening in the interim?  What kind of medical care 
>were the Russians providing for the sick inmates?

I don't know, but it certainly didn't involve Zyklon-B treatments.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish Sun Feb  5 05:16:03 PST 1995
Article: 21949 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Dan Gannon's Plight
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 06:24:13 GMT
Lines: 137

Here's an article by Dan Gannon, which I told him I'd repost for him.  
Hope it doesn't get me in trouble with netcom.

>From dan.gannon@nwcs.portland.or.us Tue Jan 31 16:51:38 1995
Return-Path: 
Received: from mail.holonet.net by netcom18.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom)
	id QAA25478; Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:51:34 -0800
Received: from nwcs (root@localhost) by mail.holonet.net with UUCP
	id OAA16107; Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:14:48 -0800
Received: by nwcs.org (wcGATE v4)
	id 40827W Tue, 31 Jan 1995 18:40:03 GMT
From: dan.gannon@nwcs.org (Dan Gannon)
Subject: Censored from the Internet (the article you requested)
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 16:58:02 GMT
Message-Id: <9501311140031605@nwcs.org>
Organization: NWCS Online * Oregon USA
To: codfish@netcom.com
Status: O

                       CENSORED FROM THE INTERNET!


     Banished CPU has been censored from the Internet!  The Canadian
PRIME TIME NEWS camera crew has just interviewed me for 4 hours about
the situation.  We are being censored for unscrupulous, politically
motivated reasons.

     Here is the complete story:


     Banished CPU, a Freedom of Speech BBS, has been distributing
Holocaust Revisionist material through the Internet since 1991.  The
material addresses, in an objective manner, the question of WHAT REALLY
HAPPENED during the so-called "Holocaust".  The facts are both
"politically inconvenient" and undeniable.

     Over the years, organized Jewish pressure has succeeded in cutting
off our link to the Internet numerous times, using their traditional
methods of boycott, slander and terror.

     Netcom, a large commerical Internet provider based in San Jose,
California, served as our latest connection to the Internet for almost
a year, until they censored Banished CPU on November 26, 1994,
violating the contract they had formed with me.

     Before I signed on with Netcom, I informed them of the nature of
the material I distribute, and inquired about the level of Freedom of
Speech they offer.  I was told -- by a Netcom sales representitive who
identified herself as "Sherri" -- there would be no restrictions or
censorship of any kind, as long as the material conformed to U.S. law
(which, of course, it does.)  Agreeing to the stated terms, I paid the
initial sign-up fee and continued paying them each month for the
connection to the Internet.

     After a couple months of organized Jewish pressure, an unsigned
electronic message arrived from Netcom, informing me that I would no
longer be allowed to distribute messages in most Internet message areas
(newsgroups).  The message specified only 12 newsgroups that I would be
allowed to post to, forbidding me from posting to any of the other
7,000+ newsgroups.  The message stated plainly that they were not
willing to discuss the issue.

     For months, I reluctantly obeyed the new "rule", even though it
violated the verbal contract they had entered into earlier.

     Then I distributed a Free Video Offer to a couple dozen newsgroups
outside of their arbitrary list of 12.  The video was "David Cole
Interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper", which greatly infuriated and panicked
the Holocaust Lobby.  David Cole, producer of the video, is Jewish --
NOT a "Nazi" or an "anti-Semite" by any means.  Hundreds of copies were
sent all over the world within a matter of weeks.  Requests were still
pouring in when we were abruptly cut off.

     At first, Jewish pressure tried to get me kicked off for
"profiteering" (an informal taboo on the Internet).  A lady named
Margaret from Netcom wrote to me, informing me of the complaints and
asking me to cease and desist.  In reply, I pointed out that I was not
"profiteering" by any stretch of the imagination -- I was merely giving
out free, legal copies of someone else's video, and not collecting any
money whatsoever.  Margaret wrote back, apologizing for the
misunderstanding.

     The next day, however, I discovered that our link to the Internet
was no longer functional.  I made countless long distance phone calls
to Netcom's offices in California.  I left messages with receptionists
for their managers, supervisors and technical support staff.  For eight
full days, nobody at Netcom would take or return my calls.  In the
meantime, Banished CPU's link to the outside world was cut, effectively
censoring me and all of my callers.  I discovered that Netcom was
DELETING all of my callers' mail, which was in many cases both
important and irreplaceable.

     Finally, after 8 days of silence, someone at Netcom called and
left a message on my answering machine, informing me that Banished CPU
had been cut off because I posted to newsgroups other than the 12 that
they had illegally mandated.  They violated their contract, bowing to
the Jewish demands to censor me.

     Now, almost 2 months after Netcom first censored us, I am still
unable to procure another Internet connection, even though one small
Internet provider has been trying to provide us with a link.
Apparently some "Internet committee" or individual (whose Internet
e-mail address is root@internic.net) is refusing to process the
necessary re-registration form.  Censored we remain.

     In the meantime, messages addressed to myself and my callers are
simply being deleted by Netcom, returning no warning message whatsoever
-- giving the impression that the messages are received but ignored.
Netcom continues in their unethical behavior, and is refusing to speak
to the Canadian PRIME TIME NEWS.

     Should you wish to contact Netcom and let them know how you feel
about their unprofessional behavior, the following information may be
of some use:


Netcom's address:  400 Moorpark Avenue, Suite 209, San Jose, CA 95117
Internet e-mail address:  root@netcom.com
Toll-free sales line:  1-800-501-8649
Technical support line:  (408) 983-5970
Emergency pager number:  (408) 951-1193


                                Sincerely,

                                Dan Gannon (a.k.a. Maynard)

       ___________________________________________________________
      |                                                           |
      |         Banished CPU supports Freedom of Speech!          |
      |                                                           |
      |  28800 bps (9 lines with V.FC)............(503) 232-9202  |
      |  14400 bps (11 lines with V.32bis)........(503) 232-6566  |
      |  9600- bps (12 lines with V.32)...........(503) 232-5783  |
      |___________________________________________________________|




From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish Sun Feb  5 05:16:05 PST 1995
Article: 21953 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Sayonara Marco Polo
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 04:54:38 GMT
Lines: 43

                  Magazine Shut Over Holocaust 

   TOKYO (AP) -- One of Japan's best-known publishing 
companies, Bungei Shunju Ltd., said today it will shut down 
a magazine that printed an article claiming the gas chambers 
of Auschwitz never existed.  
   The article in the February issue of Marco Polo, a 200,000-
circulation monthly magazine, had provoked growing protests 
from Jewish groups that called it an insult to Holocaust 
victims.  
   Tadashi Saito, a company spokesman, said Bungei Shunju 
will shut down Marco Polo and recall any copies of the 
February issue still in stores. Marco Polo editors will be 
transferred to other posts at the company, he said.  
   The article claimed the Holocaust was a ``made-up story'' 
because ``the German government never once plotted or 
implemented the destruction of Jews.''  
   It said the gas chambers at Auschwitz, where more than a 
million Jews were killed, were communist fabrications and 
that Jews died there only because of illness.  
   ``We regret that Marco Polo has printed an article about the 
Nazi slaughter of Jews that lacked accuracy and caused deep 
sadness and suffering to the Jewish community,'' Saito said in 
a written statement.  
   The article renewed questions about Japanese ignorance of 
the Holocaust and Jewish issues.Bungei Shunju is one of 
Japan's most prestigious publishers.  
   Books alleging Jewish conspiracies are frequently published 
and advertised in major newspapers, and many Japanese 
apparently don't consider them anti-Semitic.  
   Last year an official of the Liberal Democratic Party, 
Japan's largest party, published a book praising Adolf Hitler's 
election strategies. He withdrew it after international protests.  
   Saito said Bungei Shunju president Kengo Tanaka will 
formally apologize at a press conference Thursday in Tokyo 
with Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Los 
Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center.  
   Cooper led protests against the article and successfully 
urged major corporations, including Volkswagen and 
Mitsubishi Motors, to stop advertising in Marco Polo.  
Copied from the PRODIGY(R) service 01/30/95 19:28 
 



From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail Sun Feb  5 05:24:57 PST 1995
Article: 21966 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail
From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
Date: 1 Feb 1995 07:13:51 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Lines: 232
Message-ID: <3gnttv$7e1@point.mps.ohio-state.edu>
References: <3fogb1$hjj@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <3gfk1o$m6c@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: point.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
>: Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>
>: # The reward Mermelstein received was for the mental anguish he 
>: # suffered from being called a liar, not for any proof of gassings 
>: # he produced in court. 
>
>: This is a lie. Mr. Mermelstein was awarded the 50,000 dollars
>: the IHR stated it would pay someone who proved gassings
>: took place in Auschwitz, plus 40,000 for mental anguish.
>
>
>: -Danny Keren.
>
>
>For those of you who don't know who Mel Mermelstein is, suffice it to say 
>that he's a professional Auschwitz Survivor, like Elie Wiesel.  There's a 
>nice book about the long legal battle between Mermelstein and the IHR and 
>the ultimate defeat of Mermelstein.  It's called "Best Witness" and it 
>is/was available from Liberty Lobby in DC.  I recommend it; it's 
>well-written.  You should be able to order it on the phone, if it's still 
>in stock: 1(202)546-3787.
>
>I quote from it:
>
>"Neither the $90,000, nor any part of it, constituted payment of any 
>reward offer, and it was so noted on the checks paid to Mermelstein and 
>his attorney.
>
>Furthermore, the terms under which the reward offer was made were never
>satisfied; Mermelstein did not submit proof of gassings at Auschwitz, and
>the adjudication of his claim on the reward was, of course, prevented from
>proceeding due to the litigation ... The settlement with Mermelstein was
>an out of court settlement that was strongly urged by the settlement
>conference judge and was not the payment of any reward offer."
>
>              Best Witness, p. 81




Gee, Ross, since the Liberty Lobby was one of the parties that paid the
$90,000 to Mermelstein I somehow doubt that their story will be very
accurate.  Below I include the full text of the agreement between
Mermelstein and the defendants.  I think I will believe it over this book.
I particularly want to emphasize what Judge Johnson wrote:
  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
  452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
  immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
  indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"

Willis Carto doesn't like losing; and he doesn't like having to pay out
money - especially to Jews.  Here's how Carto described the purpose of the
Liberty Lobby:
    Now Judge, I do not think that I have ever mentioned to you that for
    over a year I have been working on something tentatively called the
    LIBERTY LOBBY. Briefly, this involves the establishment of an office in
    Washington to lobby for patriotism ... you can readily see the
    tremendous importance to the Repatriation scheme if this LOBBY ever gest
    [sic] set up.  On the other hand, you can see that there must never be
    an obvious connection between the two, for if there is, either would
    kill the other off, or at least harm in very gravely.  Therefore, I have
    had to make a decision and it is that the logical thing to do is to
    become publically [sic] identified with the LOBBY only ...
And what was this repatriation scheme?
    "The revolutionists have seem to it," Carto wrote the racist author
  Earnest Sevier Cox in 1955, "that only a few Americans are concerned about
  the inevitable niggerfication of America."  But Carto had a plan, for a
  "flank attack."  He established, and promoted secretly, the Joint Council
  for Repatriation - a send-'em-back-to-Africa movement with an added benefit:
  "... such a movement would be the strongest blow against the power of
  organized Jewry that can be imagined."
And this is his opinion of Jews, written under the pseudonym
"E. L. Anderson, Ph.D": 
    In fact, no objective Scholar can deny today that the world would be a
  far better place to live if Germany had won - even if it had meant the
  defeat of American arms!
    Let us first understand who won and who lost the last war.  The victors
  were Soviet Russia, international Communism, Red China, Israel,
  international Zionism, the international money manipulators (Wall
  Street-CFR crowd) and rising colored nationalisms the world over.
    Let us now name the losers:  All of the European nations, most certainly
  including Britain and her now non-existent Empire, the United States, White
  world-hegemony and the idea of the war-preventing, world-saving philosophy
  of nationalism and non-interference in the affairs of others.
I think Carto was foaming at the mouth here - with his brain in neutral.
Hitler believed in "non-interference in the affairs of others"?????  I can
hardly think of any countries in Europe that Hitler DIDN'T invade!


*****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****

		 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
		       FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

MEL MERMELSTEIN.                )    No. C 356 542
         Plaintiff,             )
vs.                             )    JUDGMENT
                                )
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL        )
REVIEW, et al.                  )
         Defendants.            )

     Pursuant to the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment executed on July 22,
1985, the Court renders the following judgment:

    1.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
and each of them, are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff MEL
MERMELSTEIN for the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand Dollars ($150,000.00),
reduced to the sum of Ninety Thousand Dollars ($90,000.00) payable as
follows:
       (a) Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) on August 1, 1985, and
delivered to the law offices of ALLRED, MAROKO, GOLDBERG & RIBAKOFF;
       (b)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on September 1, 1985;
       (c)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on October 1, 1985.
    2.  Should any of the installments not be made by the defendants against
whom judgment herein is entered within the time period provided, plaintiff,
at his sole option and discretion, shall have the following options:
       (a) To rescind the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment and proceed to
trial and any payments received by plaintiff to that date from defendants
shall not be returned to said defendants; or
       (b) Plaintiff may request entry of Judgment against each of said
defendants, jointly or severally, in the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand
Dollars ($150,000.00).
    3.  Defendants LIBERTY LOBBY, WILLIS CARTO, ELISABETH CARTO, LEGION FOR
SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM, INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW, and NOONTIDE PRESS,
shall issue and execute, by a duly authorized representative, a Letter of
Apology to Mel Mermelstein, as follows:
  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
  apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
  Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
  suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
  the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
  Auschwitz".

DATED: AUG 5, 1985

                                          ROBERT A. WENKE, JUDGE
                                          SUPERIOR COURT

APPROVED AS TO FORM AND CONTENT:

G. G. BAUMEN
Attorney for Defendants
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW,
LEGION FOR SURVIVAL OF FREEDOM,
ELISABETH CARTO and NOONTIDE PRESS

VON ESCH & ASSOCIATES
Attorneys for Defendants
LIBERTY LOBBY and WILLIS CARTO


*****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****  *  *****


			    STATEMENT OF RECORD
				    AND
		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

     "WHEREAS, the Legion for Survival of Freedom, and the Institute for
Historical Review, sent by letter dated November 20, 1980, directly to Mel
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald, an exclusive
reward offer in a letter marked "'personal'" dated November 20, 1980,
offering Mr. Mermelstein a $50,000 exclusive reward for "'proof that Jews
were gassed in gas chambers at Auschwitz'" "and further stating that if Mr.
Mermelstein did not respond to the reward offer "'very soon"', "the
Institute for Historical Review would 'publicize that fact to the mass
media' ..."
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein formally applied for said $50,000 reward on
December 18, 1980; and
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein now contends that the Institute for
Historical Review knew, or should have known, from Mr. Mermelstein's letter
to the editor of the Jerusalem Post dated August 17, 1980, that Mr.
Mermelstein contended he was a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald; knew, or should have known, that Mr. Mermelstein contended that
his mother and two sisters were gassed to death at Auschwitz; and knew, or
should have known, of his contention that at dawn on May 22, 1944, he
observed his mother and two sisters, among other women and children, being
lured and driven into the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau, which he later
discovered to be Gas Chamber No. 5; and
     "WHEREAS, on October 9, 1981, the parties in dispute in the litigation
filed cross-motions for summary judgment resulting in the court, per the
Honorable Thomas T. Johnson, taking judicial notice as follows:
  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
  452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
  immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
  indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"
     "WHEREAS, Mr. Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz contend that
they suffered severe emotional distress resulting from said reward offer and
subsequent conduct of the Institute of Historical Review; and
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom now contend that in offering such reward there was no intent to
offend, embarrass or cause emotional strain to anyone, including Mr.
Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and Buchenwald Concentration
Camps of World War II, and a person who lost his father, mother and two
sisters who also were inmates of Auschwitz;
     "WHEREAS, the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom should have been aware that the reward offer would cause Mr.
Mermelstein and other survivors of Auschwitz to suffer severe emotional
distress which the Institute for Historical Review and Legion for Survival
of Freedom now recognize is regretable and abusive to survivors of
Auschwitz.

		    LETTER OF APOLOGY TO MEL MERMELSTEIN

  "Each of the answering defendants do hereby officially and formally
apologize to Mr. Mel Mermelstein, a survivor of Auschwitz-Birkenau and
Buchenwald, and all other survivors of Auschwitz for the pain, anguish and
suffering he and all other Auschwitz survivors have sustained relating to
the $50,000 reward offer for proof that "Jews were gassed in gas chambers at
Auschwitz".

DATED: 7/24/85             G. G. Baumen
                           Attorney for Defendants
                           Legion For Survival of Freedom,
                           Institute for Historical Review,
                           Noontide Press, and Elisabeth Carto

DATED: 7/24/85             MARK F. VON ESCH
                           Attorneys for Defendants
                           Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto



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Article: 21968 of alt.revisionism
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From: cendbj@clust.hw.ac.uk (David Johnston)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Message-ID: 
Lines: 35
Sender: news@cee.hw.ac.uk (News Administrator)
Organization: Heriot-Watt University
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References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$ <3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:47:14 GMT

In article  pat2413@delphi.com writes:

>Ricardo D Joshua  writes:
> 
>>Once more, you people are mixing things up. Yes, I did imply that the Jewish
>>people as a whole have a thing with shrinks. I think this is generally 
>>accepted- even Hollywood projects that image. The father of this pseud0-
>>science was a Jew, Sigmund Freud.
> 
Is this genetic then? The "need to see a shrink" gene, passed on through 
generations? Do Jews living in the backwoods of Poland also have a thing about 
shrinks? Or could it be that you've been watching too many Woody Allen films? 
Einstein thought up the theory of relativity - do you think Jews have got a 
thing about the speed of light? James Watt discovered steam power. Shit, the 
Scots must have a thing about steam - that explains why there are no cars 
here, just traction engines.

Every time you write you make yourself look that little bit sillier.

>Quit wasting your time with these people--they are simply luring you into
>a meaningless debate to steer you away from the prime subject.  They tried
>it on me also.  Let's stick to the problem at hand.   Your ally.

It's not at all meaningless. The purpose, as I understand it, is to show to 
whoever is out there that a large majority of the revisionists on this 
newsgroup are also neo-nazis (or at least anti-semitic). This includes Mr 
Joshua. It seems fairly obvious to me that there may just be a teensy little 
bit of bias when they give their opinions on what the Nazis Mark I did during 
the war. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust a devout Stalinist to 
give me an unbiased opinion on Russian Human rights in the fifties, and I 
don't really see a lot of difference. 

David Johnston
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh 


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Article: 21971 of alt.revisionism
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From: chip@cybernetics.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ross Vicksell
Date: 1 Feb 1995 14:48:04 GMT
Organization: Creative Cybernetics, Inc.
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <3go6v4$7aq@news0.cybernetics.net>
References: <1995Jan10.225026.19216@hobbes.kzoo.edu>  <3g8psm$1p9@jabba.cybernetics.net> 
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According to codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell):
>Chip Salzenberg (chip@cybernetics.net) wrote:
>: Ross, if all those Nazi documents are forged, where are the forgers?
>: Why hasn't even *one* person come forward to earn big bucks on Hard Copy?
>
>You lost me.  What big bucks?  From some muckraking paper?  Daring 
>talkmaster?  Uh huh.

Almost: Hard Copy is a muckraking television program.

But let's not get hung up on the question of *which* program, or which
publisher, would carry the story; given thousands of media outlets,
and tens of thousands of reporters hungry for fame and fortune, there
would be someone willing to carry it.  And let's be very clear about
the story I mean: not the typical revisionist claim of conspiracy, but
a few persons, or even just *one* person, who was a *part* of the
conspiracy, coming forward and explaining his part in the deception.

I repeat:  Why hasn't even *one* person come forward?  *ONE*?
-- 
              Chip Salzenberg, aka 
  "Don't move!"  *BANG*  "You have the right to remain silent!"  *BANG!*
    "Anything you say can and will be used against you!"  *SPLASH*
               -- Tom Servo, MST3K: "High School Bigshot"


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Article: 21973 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
In-Reply-To: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu's message of Wed, 01 Feb 1995 13:37:04 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net> <3ftmel$6p4@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	 
	
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 03:34:03 GMT
Lines: 21


Jamie McCarthy responding to Ross Vicksell quoting Friedreich Berg...
>: Of course the Germans knew how to make DDT, but I.G. Farben had something
>: better [...] and they knew that DDT was potentially harmful to the
>: environment
>
>I see:  concentration camps were a nice place to spend the war, and the
>National Socialists were really the forerunners of the Green Party.  It's
>all clear to me now.

These revisionists remind me of the comical parodies of russian
communists comedians would do back in the 60's.

Ya know, "da! kruschev strongest man in world! fathered 100,000
children! all in one night! and invented television! radio too!"

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 21974 of alt.revisionism
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From: stara@fas.harvard.edu (Felix Vagabond)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
Date: 1 Feb 1995 16:01:11 GMT
Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts
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Ross Vicksell (codfish@netcom.com) wrote:
: Danny Keren (dzk@cs.brown.edu) wrote:
: : Ross Vicksell  wrote:

: : # The reward Mermelstein received was for the mental anguish he 
: : # suffered from being called a liar, not for any proof of gassings 
: : # he produced in court. 

: : This is a lie. Mr. Mermelstein was awarded the 50,000 dollars
: : the IHR stated it would pay someone who proved gassings
: : took place in Auschwitz, plus 40,000 for mental anguish.


: : -Danny Keren.


: For those of you who don't know who Mel Mermelstein is, suffice it to say 
: that he's a professional Auschwitz Survivor, like Elie Wiesel.  There's a 
      *^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 I don't know what the hell your calling Mermelstein such name will do to
 supply your side of the fence with? It adds to your creditbility and the way
 you conceive the truth.
 No matter how you are going to paint it, the core is still the same.
 He won and your side lost. Can't you accept your bitter lose?
 so the Liberty Lobby in DC is an outfit for the Nazis and their ardent
 lunatics!
 Ross it's about time that you seek the warm weather in the south and 
 leave this place who are a bit capable/competent to withstand the cold.
 


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Article: 21980 of alt.revisionism
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From: chip@cybernetics.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ms. Jeffrey's Remarks
Date: 2 Feb 1995 14:27:24 GMT
Organization: Creative Cybernetics, Inc.
Lines: 19
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NNTP-Posting-Host: server0.cybernetics.net

According to codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell):
>Donald Moffitt (EVRX36A@prodigy.com) wrote:
>: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) wrote:
>: >Reckon she'll get her job back now?
>:
>: I wonder.  Why not call her again and ask her?
>
>It'd be awkward.

You're too much, Ross.  Denying the deaths of millions and accusing
thousands of people of being liars or stooges is just another day's
labor, but asking someone about their employment is "awkward"?

It is to laugh.
-- 
              Chip Salzenberg, aka 
  "Don't move!"  *BANG*  "You have the right to remain silent!"  *BANG!*
    "Anything you say can and will be used against you!"  *SPLASH*
               -- Tom Servo, MST3K: "High School Bigshot"


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Article: 21982 of alt.revisionism
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From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dan Gannon's Plight
Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 14:17:33 -0500
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
References: 
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codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) wrote:

> Here's an article by Dan Gannon, which I told him I'd repost for him.
> Hope it doesn't get me in trouble with netcom.

Doubt it will -- you didn't post it to 60 individual newsgroups.

>      Banished CPU, a Freedom of Speech BBS

False.  Among the propaganda he's distributed has been a call to censor
the film "Schindler's List."  That's not exactly what I'd call freedom
of speech.

>      Over the years, organized Jewish pressure has succeeded in cutting
> off our link to the Internet numerous times, using their traditional
> methods of boycott, slander and terror.

False.  But it's good to see Dan has dropped the "Zionist" canard
and is coming out and slandering Jews directly.

There was no pressure, of course.  I remember;  I was there.  In fact,
when I saw all the newsgroups he was infecting, I wanted to post one
article to all of them saying "if Dan annoys you, send email to his
service provider."  I discussed this idea with my friends before
taking action, however, and saner heads prevailed:  no such message
was posted, by me or anyone else.  If people in those other newsgroups
were annoyed enough to contact netcom and complain (and they were),
they did so of their own accord.

Don't let him snow you with this "pressure" thing.

> The message specified only 12 newsgroups that I would be
> allowed to post to, forbidding me from posting to any of the other
> 7,000+ newsgroups.

...because Dan had been violating nettiquette by repeatedly posting
the same material over and over to many, many newsgroups, most of
which had nothing to do with the material in question.  A review of
Schindler's List doesn't belong in sci.chem.  Discussion of Nazis
making soap from Jewish corpses doesn't belong in soc.culture.british.

Again -- I know, I was there, I wrote the shell script to search the
hard drive to find out which groups he was posting to.

Dan was in the top-ten list of articles posted for a while, even
edging out Serdar Argic once.  He was up around 250 posts per two
weeks, if memory serves.  A thread started in one of the news.*
groups to discuss the possibility of "active kill files" to deal
with people like Serdar Argic and Dan Gannon (they were both
mentioned explicitly by name).

> For eight
> full days, nobody at Netcom would take or return my calls.

That's typical for Netcom's service, from what I hear.  Don't think
Danno was a special case.

>      Finally, after 8 days of silence, someone at Netcom called and
> left a message on my answering machine, informing me that Banished CPU
> had been cut off because I posted to newsgroups other than the 12 that
> they had illegally mandated.  They violated their contract, bowing to
> the Jewish demands to censor me.

"Violated their contract"?  Can anyone at Netcom provide us with a
copy of the contract they signed?  I'll bet Dan a nickel that
there's a clause something about recklessly abusing the net or
something like that.

Dan essentially did what Canter & Siegel did, on a much smaller
scale.  He posted to about 60 newsgroups, if memory serves, instead
of thousands -- though Dan did repeat the offense regularly for
months, whereas C&S just did it once.  Netcom had every right to
kick him off, in any case.

>      Now, almost 2 months after Netcom first censored us, I am still
> unable to procure another Internet connection,

Gee, maybe because after his first internet provider kicked him off
(for lying about his identity), he publicly threatened to turn over
that provider's name and address to his skinhead friends, and to
inform them that he was homosexual.

I just can't imagine why no one else wants to sell him service now.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "The Jewish people will be exterminated...it's in our program."  - Himmler
 "Until you find a reference to gas chambers, you can forget about long,
  drawn-out discussions of Himmler's speeches."                     - Raven


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Article: 21989 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Wed, 1 Feb 1995 05:41:06 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fogb1$hjj@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3g105d$o9l@butch.lmsc.lockheed.com>
	 <3gfk1o$m6c@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:55:51 GMT
Lines: 48


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>is/was available from Liberty Lobby in DC.  I recommend it; it's 
>well-written.  You should be able to order it on the phone, if it's still 
>in stock: 1(202)546-3787.

Don't give us bullshit from that rag whose principles were among the
parties who list the suit.

The court judgement was unambiguous and clear.

Liberty Lobby version:

>Furthermore, the terms under which the reward offer was made were never
>satisfied; Mermelstein did not submit proof of gassings at Auschwitz, and

Court Document:

		 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
		       FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES

MEL MERMELSTEIN.                )    No. C 356 542
         Plaintiff,             )
vs.                             )    JUDGMENT
                                )
INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL        )
REVIEW, et al.                  )
         Defendants.            )

	...

  "'Under Evidence Code Section 452(h), this court does take judicial
  notice of the fact that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz
  Concentration Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944'" and "'It just
  simply is a fact that falls within the definition of Evidence Code Section
  452(h).  It is not reasonably subject to dispute.  And it is capable of
  immediate and accurate determination by resort to sources of reasonably
  indisputable accuracy.  It is simply a fact.'"

--------------------

There, now everyone knows how full of crap you people are.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!kmcvay Mon Feb  6 21:11:09 PST 1995
Article: 21994 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Dan Gannon's Plight
References:  
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Feb07.050932.15768@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 05:09:32 GMT

In article  k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy) writes:

>Gee, maybe because after his first internet provider kicked him off
>(for lying about his identity), he publicly threatened to turn over
>that provider's name and address to his skinhead friends, and to
>inform them that he was homosexual.
>
>I just can't imagine why no one else wants to sell him service now.

Funny how Mr. Gannon neglected bellowing about losing his
techbooks.com account... you don't suppose he's forgotten, do you?

Nah...

-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                     kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!uwm.edu!caen!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!pm005-08.dialip.mich.net!user Mon Feb  6 22:42:52 PST 1995
Article: 21995 of alt.revisionism
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From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Evidence, deniers!  (was Re: Ross Vicksell)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 13:18:45 -0500
Organization: University of Michigan
Lines: 225
Message-ID: 
References: <1995Jan10.225026.19216@hobbes.kzoo.edu>
   
   <3g8psm$1p9@jabba.cybernetics.net>
   
   <3go6v4$7aq@news0.cybernetics.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm005-08.dialip.mich.net

chip@cybernetics.net (Chip Salzenberg) wrote:

> I repeat:  Why hasn't even *one* person come forward?  *ONE*?

A good question.  And one that needs to be asked and reasked until
people realize that the revisionists don't have an answer.  I just
stumbled across this article of mine from a half-year ago that never
got an answer.  I'll give the revisionists another chance to answer
now.

And if they try to claim that their "theories" don't depend on an
immense number of forged documents, they lie -- as Friedrich Berg
admits for us in a quote below.


Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 17:27:58 -0400
From: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu (Jamie McCarthy)
Subject: Evidence, deniers!  (was Re: The Diesel-of-Death Challenge Repeated)
Message-ID: 

bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein) wrote:
> 
> Surely if people were employed to fabricate mountains of evidence as
> you claim you must know some details about some of these things. You
> seem to have discovered this grand hoax that has fooled the world,
> surely a few names and places must be a minor feat for such geniuses.

I grow weary of this same absurd crap over and over.

Let me expand a little on what Barry brings up here.

The Holocaust-deniers here, or "revisionists" if they prefer that term,
say that the Holocaust never happened.  To be precise, they insist that
the Nazis never had a plan or policy to try to kill approximately
eleven million civilians that they didn't like, about half of whom
were Jewish.  Not having that as an intention, then, of course, they
also did not put it into action.

So how was the world led to believe that something called a "Holocaust"
happened in the middle of this century?  Well, it's all a big hoax,
we're told, in books with titles like _The Hoax of the Twentieth
Century_.  We're being scammed.  We're being fooled.

But hoaxes don't form spontaneously;  a hoax implies a hoaxer,
there are no scams without scam artists.

Let's "step into the skin of a monster," as Mr. Gannon would rhetorize.
Allow me to indent my text, and look at the world from this fantasy
point of view.  (And I apologize in advance if I imitate too well.)

   Starting in 1942, the Jews began circulating rumors that they were all
   being killed.  These rumors filtered through various news agencies,
   from dozens of sources.
   
   By 1945, the Jews had forged tens of thousands of Nazi documents, all
   "proving" that the Nazis had committed mass murder.  The Jews
   invented the whole thing in a whirlwind effort.  They invented the
   places where the gassings took place.  They researched and invented
   the techniques that were used.  They forged photographs and wove them
   into the picture.  They forged Eichmann's diary. They forged orders
   for trucks to pick up material, and they forged reports of how well
   the gassing operations were going.  They forged reports to Hitler
   saying that the Eastern territories were free of Jews.  They forged
   inventories of the morgues, saying there were showerheads and
   gas-tight doors in them.  They forged the whole story about SS guards
   being taken to a special camp to get them used to the idea of killing
   Jews.  Everything, every bit of it, forged.

(In article <31clre$7sb@ankh.iia.org>, Friedrich Berg briefly discusses
this fantasy forgery whirlwind:)

> Practically every scrap of such 
> evidence is a postwar fabrication, fabricated by people who had been 
> employed primarily to generate such "evidence" since there was absolutely 
> no other evidence to begin with.

"People who had been employed primarily to generate such 'evidence.'"

Who was the employer?

How many employees were there?

I work at a fairly small company;  my department is about ten people.
We don't try to do nearly as much as these fantastic Jewish forgers
must have.

   I mean, those guys must have been _productive_!  Draftspeople to forge
   plans for the buildings, chemists to decide how the Nazis would have
   done the killing, voice talent and audio engineers to forge Himmler's
   hours-long Poznan speeches, writers to decide who would have written
   what memos to whom, and the typists--good Lord, can you imagine the
   number of typists the whole Jewish Forgery Operation would have
   required!?  They literally had to forge the entire workings of a
   significant part of the German government for four or five years.
   Right down to the endless pages detailing which military groups took
   which positions and how many Jews they killed, rows and rows of small
   numbers, tabulated, formulated.  They must have intercepted the
   actual routes that the Einsatzgruppen took, figured out which
   prisoners they took, forged documents saying that they'd executed all
   the Jews, and then inserted the forgeries into the appropriate
   places. Wow.  That's a lot of work.  Hundreds of Einsatzgruppen
   reports to forge.  And that's just the Einsatzgruppen, that's just,
   what, a million or so murders to report.  Multiply that times ten,
   that's the scale we're talking.

   Somehow the Jews got their Jew agents to be there when this forged
   evidence was presented to Hoess and Broad and Kremer and all the
   dozens of Nazis tried in 1945 and 1946.  All of them must have had
   the same initial reaction:  "what!? I never wrote that!?" but the Jew
   agents, of course, slapped them around a bit until they admitted it
   was true. And the Jew agents were very good, because every single one
   of them admitted that it was true.  Those agents must have been quite
   good at making Nazis admit things, because a lot of those Nazis were
   seasoned military men.  Where'd they hire those agents from?
   
   Finally, they found a few thousand Jews who were willing to lie their
   asses off and say that Auschwitz was an extermination camp, not a
   concentration camp.  They must have held a big meeting, gathered all
   the survivors together, and briefed them.  "OK," the Head Jew would
   have said, "repeat after me:  Auschwitz was not a nice place to live.
   Auschwitz did not have a swimming pool.  Auschwitz used its morgues
   to gas people.  In the summer of 1944 they burned bodies in ditches.
   Everyone on the left, you actually saw people being led to the gas
   chambers.  You on the right, you did not, but you heard a lot about
   it."  And so on.  All in all, the survivors did a good job of
   remembering their instructions.  Sure, some of them went overboard
   and started talking about huge clouds of smoke billowing out of the
   crematories when it was actually pretty smoke-free, but apart from
   that they stuck to their story remarkably well.

My department at my company generates a lot of paperwork.  We don't
magically all agree how we're going to approach a task, and then
simply do it -- I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't!  Working
together requires constant communication. We have meetings all the
time;  sometimes it seems like I spend entire days doing nothing but
meeting and talking about when next to meet and sending notes about
future meetings and photocopying proposals.  And my department, from
what I hear, is small potatoes for bureaucracy, we're remarkably
informal.

   This whole Jewish-forgery operation must have generated a lot of
   paperwork as well.  How many people must it have taken to do all
   this?  Fifty people?  Hell, they'd need fifty _typists_.  A hundred? 
   A thousand?  Hell, a lot more than that.  There are literally
   truckloads of documentation, and forging the documentation is easy
   compared to delivering it to the right places, and figuring out who
   did what and what to forge, and who to falsely accuse, and making
   all of it fit together.  Ten thousand people, maybe?

And here I'll drop the fantasy-indentation, because here's where the
fantasy meets the reality.  I'm told that Microsoft employees send and
receive a million email messages a week.  Let's say that this Jewish
Forgery Operation was about as big as Microsoft is.  They would have
needed approximately as many communications as Microsoft does.  Let's say
that about half of those were oral, and that they succeeded in burning
99.9% of the written ones.  That leaves about 500,000 written
communications between the members of this fantasy Operation Jewish
Forgery.  And, counting the survivors who'd been briefed on their stories,
the Nazis who were paid off to go along with the whole thing, and the
forgers themselves, I figure there were something like 20,000 people
after the war who knew about Operation Jewish Forgery.

500,000 documents, and 20,000 witnesses.

Here's my question to you, "revisionist scholars."

Where are they?

Where are all these documents of the forgery?  Where are all the witnesses
to this scam operation?  Oh sure, we understand that you think most Jews
are such liars and cheats that, even if they weren't briefed on the
"Holohoax," they'd go along with it anyway just to get money for Israel.
But would _all_ Jews go along with the story?  Wouldn't you think that
somewhere, maybe, there would be a few honest Jews who would admit that
they'd been pulling the wool over our eyes?

Where are they?

These pieces of paper, the 0.1% that hypothetically survived.  They must
be scattered throughout Eastern Europe, little scraps of paper that say
things like "Dear Isaac -- please don't forget to leak Document 495B-14
to the London Times on August 13, as we agreed.  Signed, Abraham."
Right?

Where are they?

I want an answer.  I want one memo between members of Operation Jewish
Forgery, one written piece of evidence that something went on.  I want
one inmate of Auschwitz who came forward and said that there was no
gassing going on, that it was a big hoax.  (Someone besides Rassinier,
whose insane writings have made him persona non grata among even
Holocaust-deniers.  And he certainly didn't say anything about a huge
operation to create forgeries.)

I don't think I'm out of line in asking for one tiny little detail
about how this huge forging operation was carried out.  Not when Mr. Berg
makes demands on me like:

> Surely, the hatemongers can tell us something about those monstrously
> amazing Diesels-of-Death.  Surely, from their "mountains" of "eyewitness
> testimony" they can tell us whether the Diesels were outside in the open,
> or inside the vehicles (tank or truck or whatever), or inside a room. 
> Surely, they can tell us whether they were V-12 or inline-sixes or
> whatever--whether they were connected to something like a huge fan or
> bonecrusher or something.  These Diesels were, supposedly, the greatest
> mass murder devices in the entire history of the world--and we don't even
> have a picture.

If Mr. Berg feels it acceptable to ask me how many cylinders a Nazi
engine had, I don't think it's out of line for me to ask him (and
Mr. Raven, and Mr. Smith, and Mr. Gannon, and whoever else wants to
try answering):

Give me one piece of documentation, or one testimony, that serves as
evidence for this alleged massive hoax.

Just one.

Either that, or explain why you don't have a single scrap of evidence to
support your insane theory.
-- 
 Jamie McCarthy   Internet: k044477@hobbes.kzoo.edu   AppleLink: j.mccarthy
 "The Jewish people will be exterminated...it's in our program."  - Himmler
 "Until you find a reference to gas chambers, you can forget about long,
  drawn-out discussions of Himmler's speeches."                     - Raven


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs Tue Feb  7 04:21:30 PST 1995
Article: 21997 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!pipex!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Dan Gannon's Plight
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Wed, 1 Feb 1995 06:24:13 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: 
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 23:00:09 GMT
Lines: 20


Oh gannon with his jooos jooos jooos...

He spammed, that can get anyone thrown off, they probably didn't even
particularly know or care what the material was other than he was
posting advertisements to dozens of groups which forbid advertising,
repeatedly.

Stop making this crap up. If you have a case, make it. If not then
give it up.

I personally am pretty sick of these claims that y'all stood out in
the rain with picket signs and evil jooos gave you a cold or whatever
you're bellyaching about this week.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!ddsw1!golux.pr.mcs.net!user Thu Feb  9 05:26:16 PST 1995
Article: 22009 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!ddsw1!golux.pr.mcs.net!user
From: golux@mcs.com (The only Golux in the World, and not a mere Device)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What Wikoff left out (Re: Japanese Magazine Censored)
Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 13:16:44 -0600
Organization: MCSNet Services
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <3gpet7$g9p@transit.nyser.net> <3gqj37$mqg@agate.berkeley.edu>  <4FEB199516512534@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: golux.pr.mcs.net

In article <4FEB199516512534@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>,
dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) wrote:

>     Ross, very few advertisers in Marco Polo would have been "shoah"
>     businessmen; most would have been Japanese.  Certainly netiher
>     Volkswagen nor Mitsubishi is run by Jews.  I have no idea who runs
>     Phillip Morris, but with their stake in the cigarette business, I would
>     be surprised to find its top management dominated by Jews.

Actually, Dan, I also doubt Jews have much dominance over any tobacco
company, but not because they are tobacco companies.  I suspect it's more
likely because the focus of the US tobacco industry is in North Carolina,
a place not known for a large and dominant Jewish population.

On the other hand, since PM is, like all the other tobacco cos., a large
multinational concern, management could indeed contian several Jews.  (I
still doubt it.)

Post/email.

-- 
D. J. Schaeffer |       The Todal looks like a blob of glup.
golux@mcs.com   |     It makes a sound like rabbits screaming,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        and smells of old, unopened rooms.
                            -- Thurber, _The 13 Clocks_


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail Thu Feb  9 05:26:17 PST 1995
Article: 22012 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail
From: overman@math.ohio-state.edu (Ed Overman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
Date: 6 Feb 1995 10:57:59 -0500
Organization: Department of Mathematics, The Ohio State University
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <3h5gu7$em8@point.mps.ohio-state.edu>
References:   <1995Feb05.023742.13807@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: point.mps.ohio-state.edu

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:
>How come everyone's posting the same court documents?  I may be missing 
>something, but I find nothing in them that says anything about the award 
>being paid.  Why doesn't someone help me out?
>
>                        Ross Vicksell

Sorry, Ross, I think you are beyond help.  I am not sure what your problem
is.  (Well, actually I know what your REAL problem is --- Jews on the brain
--- but there is nothing that any of us can do to help you with that.)

Let me go over this slowly.  Mermelstein sued Carto et al.  Carto et al
countersued Mermelstein.  They both agreed to let the judge settle it.  The
judge agreed "that Jews were gassed to death at the Auschwitz Concentration
Camp in Poland during the summer of 1944".  Carto et al agreed to pay
Mermelstein $90,000.00 as follows:
	 (a) Fifty Thousand Dollars ($50,000.00) on August 1, 1985, and
  delivered to the law offices of ALLRED, MAROKO, GOLDBERG & RIBAKOFF;
	 (b)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on September 1, 1985;
	 (c)  Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00) on October 1, 1985.
They further agreed that if they did not pay him the amounts due on the
dates due then Mermelstein could do any of the following:
	 (a) To rescind the Stipulation for Entry of Judgment and proceed to
  trial and any payments received by plaintiff to that date from defendants
  shall not be returned to said defendants; or
	 (b) Plaintiff may request entry of Judgment against each of said
  defendants, jointly or severally, in the sum of One Hundred Fifty Thousand
  Dollars ($150,000.00).
All this was agreed to by the attorneys for Carto et al in the presence of
Judge Robert A. Wenke.  ARE YOU WITH ME, ROSS???

If your complaint is that you have not seen the ACTUAL "Stipulation for
Entry of Judgment", but only a typed copy, then I suggest that you request a
xerox copy of the document from the Superor Court.  You will notice that I
included the actual document number.

On the other hand, maybe you are implying that Carto et al agreed to pay
Mermelstein and then reneged.  I will agree that Carto is pretty stupid to
get himself into this mess.  But he would have to be even more stupid to
agree to pay IN WRITING and then renege.  Since you must, in fact, know
Carto who used to head the IHR (behind the scenes of course) and used to
attend your yearly "love fests", I will leave that determination to you.

I cannot, of course, PROVE that he paid the money since I do not have the
original check.  However, I do have a xerox copy of the first check (for
$50,000), a cashier's check from the South Bay Bank, Torrance, California
90505, with remitter "Institude for Historical Review" and remitee "Mel
Mermelstein".  I must admit that I cannot make out the signature on the
check, but I suspect that whoever signed the check is probably just as
happy.  If you really want to see this, I will be glad to make a xerox of my
xerox of the check and mail it to you.  I will also be glad to send you a
xerox of my xerox of the actual "Statement of Record and Letter of Apology
to Mel Mermelstein" with the signatures of G. G. Baumen, Attorney for
Defendants, Legion for Survival of Freedom, Institute for Historical Review,
Noontide Press, and Elisabeth Carto, and of Mark F. Von Esch, Attorneys
(sic) for Defendants Liberty Lobby and Willis Carto.  

WOULD THIS MAKE YOU HAPPY, ROSS???  If so, please send me a mailing address
and I will be OVERJOYED to send you all this material.



From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish Thu Feb  9 16:07:56 PST 1995
Article: 22016 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!csus.edu!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: lst Annual Felderer Award for Best Satire
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: 
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 19:40:03 GMT
Lines: 20

hoffman2nd@delphi.com wrote:
: *************************
: SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES
: (To be sung to the tune of the song by the same name)
:  
: They asked me how I knew
:  
: The Holocaust Was True
:  
: I replied,

should of course be "I of course replied"

:  
: Such a genocide
:  
: Cannot be denied.
:  
: Smoke gets in your eyes.
: ****************************


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish Thu Feb  9 16:07:57 PST 1995
Article: 22021 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Mel Mermelstein vs. the IHR
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References:  <3gfk1o$m6c@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <1995Feb05.023742.13807@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 19:57:41 GMT
Lines: 5

How come everyone's posting the same court documents?  I may be missing 
something, but I find nothing in them that says anything about the award 
being paid.  Why doesn't someone help me out?

                        Ross Vicksell


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Sat Feb 11 19:39:46 PST 1995
Article: 22077 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: jamesehill@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mauthausen "Gas Chamber"
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 22:07:29 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <3g0884$14n@molnir.brunel.ac.uk> <3g0etk$lpn@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>  <3g1eto$suv@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1e.delphi.com
X-To: Ross Vicksell 

ment about a pretty well documented set of facts. In real history, like life,
there will be a fair amount of loose ends.
history, like real life, there will be some loose ends. All the details dont
always add up just right; the vast majority do. We even have airplane pictures
of some of the camps; with modern technology, you can see the crowds lined up
before the--well--gas chambers, for want of a better term. For Hitler's
personal involvement, what was he saying in Mein Kampf? borne out later in
further speeches and an
actions of large numbers of people?? And the accumulated testimony of thoussands
and thousands of people, victems AND guards? And so on. Come on. Look at evi
ystematic way. The construction of a program should not be taken
as proof of anything except the creativity or lack of it on the part of the
production team. And I do not consider myself a partisan of Israel in the
confrontation between Israelis and Palestinians. I have rather consistently
spoken for the creation of a Palestinian state. but this is another issue. I
just dont want you to misread my motives.


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish Tue Feb 14 08:27:24 PST 1995
Article: 22109 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!codfish
From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: The Death of Tchaikowsky
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <3h9e6b$959@access4.digex.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 04:12:15 GMT
Lines: 12

Michael P. Stein (mstein@access.digex.net) wrote:

:     In the February 6th issue of The New Republic is an interesting
: article on the untimely death of Tchaikowsky in 1893.  The official cause
: of death was cholera.  However, there are persistent rumors that it was
: really suicide, forced on the composer by a shadowy conspiracy after he
: deflowered the nephew of a noble.  (Tchaikowsky was a homosexual.)

Pardon me for seeming clinical, but can somebody tell me how a sodomist 
deflowers someone?

                          Ross


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Tue Feb 21 19:48:30 PST 1995
Article: 22242 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: pat2413@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:29:01 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: 
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>   <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: Danny Keren 

Danny Keren  writes:
 
>Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I
>send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war
>without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood
>that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate
>millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?
 
Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail Tue Feb 21 19:48:32 PST 1995
Article: 22243 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!decwrl!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!news.pipeline.com!not-for-mail
From: donald05@pipeline.com (Donald Moffitt)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Bomber Command
Date: 16 Feb 1995 20:51:01 -0500
Organization: Pipeline
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <3i0ve5$qp7@pipe2.pipeline.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: pipe2.pipeline.com

In alt.revisionism codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) said: 
> 
>So while the Germans and Russians were bashing their brains out on the
Eastern  
>front, with millions upon millions killed on both sides, the Americans and
 
>British were getting by with the loss of 100,000 airmen.  A quite
different  
>scenario from what Uncle Joe would have preferred. He was hoping the  
>"capitalist" states would fight each other to exhaustion and then he could
 
>waltz in and take over Europe. 
> 
>                     Ross Vicksell 
-- 
By the same token, the Nazi leadership had in part deluded itself that the
West would ultimately join Germany in destroying the Soviet threat out of
fear of Communism.  Himmler stopped the gassing of Jews when he realized
that it would make a rapprochement with the Allies impossible, after
meeting with a representative of the Jewish World Congress in Switzerland. 
As usual, the Nazis, like their wannabes today, were so blinded by their
ideology that they refused to believe that the Allies meant what they said:
 Unconditional surrender.  The Allies insisted on it because they knew that
anything less would encourage the Nazis afterward to revive the old lie
that Germany lost the war only because it was tricked by the International
Joosh Conspiracy.  Toward the end of the war, things were so hopeless that
the Allied leadership briefly considered making a phony announcement that
Germany had surrendered, knowing that most German soldiers would
immediately stop fighting.  But that idea was rejected because it was
pointed out, again, that it would merely lend credence to new claims that
Germany lost only because it was "tricked."  In the end, of course, it
became obvious that the Germans had fooled only themselves, just like the
punk Nazis in this newsgroup are fooling themselves. 
Donald Moffitt 


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!gmi!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Tue Feb 21 19:48:33 PST 1995
Article: 22250 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!msunews!gmi!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: pat2413@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dan Gannon's Plight
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:46:38 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 9
Message-ID: 
References:   <1995Feb07.050932.15768@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: Ken Mcvay 

Ken Mcvay  writes:
 
>Funny how Mr. Gannon neglected bellowing about losing his
>techbooks.com account... you don't suppose he's forgotten, do you?
>
>Nah...
 
Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!uwm.edu!msunews!gmi!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Tue Feb 21 20:30:16 PST 1995
Article: 22260 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!caen!uwm.edu!msunews!gmi!zombie.ncsc.mil!news.duke.edu!godot.cc.duq.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.delphi.com!usenet
From: pat2413@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:38:04 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 12
Message-ID: 
References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$ <3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: bos1b.delphi.com
X-To: David Johnston 

David Johnston  writes:
 
>>Quit wasting your time with these people--they are simply luring you into
>>a meaningless debate to steer you away from the prime subject.  They tried
>>it on me also.  Let's stick to the problem at hand.   Your ally.
 
Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.
Their job is to drag you into irrelevant and nonsensical debates to keep
you from the main goal.  They are propagandists, pure and simple.  You're
doing fine, and it's great to read listings from one of our people who
hasn't turned into a sickening Majority renegade.


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news Tue Feb 21 21:13:48 PST 1995
Article: 22267 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news
From: jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: 18 Feb 1995 04:48:56 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3i3u7o$rli@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>   <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU 
NNTP-Posting-Host: lydgate.remote.ualberta.ca
X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.92.4

In article , pat2413@delphi.com says:
 >
 >Danny Keren  writes:
 > 
 >>Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I
 >>send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war
 >>without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood
 >>that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate
 >>millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?
 > 
 >Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Oh pat, pat, pat.  You are just too precious.  Don't ever change.

--
 John Morris                                       
 at University of Alberta     



From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.island.net!not-for-mail Tue Feb 21 21:13:49 PST 1995
Article: 22268 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.island.net!not-for-mail
From: kmcvay@epaus.island.net (Ken McVay)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dan Gannon's Plight
Date: 20 Feb 1995 07:26:11 -0800
Organization: Island Internet Inc. - (604) 753-2383
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3iacaj$3ct@epaus.island.net>
References:   <1995Feb07.050932.15768@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: epaus.island.net

In article ,   wrote:
>Ken Mcvay  writes:
> 
>>Funny how Mr. Gannon neglected bellowing about losing his
>>techbooks.com account... you don't suppose he's forgotten, do you?
>>
>>Nah...
> 
>Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
>your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!

I note you did not respond to comments about Mr. Gannon's seeming memory
loss regarding techbooks.com, another account which he lost for
downright abusive behavior on the net.


-- 
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca	kmcvay@mala.bc.ca
kmcvay@epaus.island.net		kmcvay@port.island.net
The Nizkor Project		Vancouver Island, B.C.


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews Tue Feb 21 23:53:05 PST 1995
Article: 22292 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: ANNY@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i55j5$42l@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$ <3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk4-24.ix.netcom.com

In  pat2413@delphi.com writes: 

>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single 
day.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'm not funded by anyone except myself.  
Can you tell me where I go to get some funding?  Where do you get yours?
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:53:06 PST 1995
Article: 22294 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:38:04 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>
	<3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$
	<3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>
	<3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk> 
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:26:14 GMT
Lines: 33


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.

Actually, if there's anyone here who might be a patsy for the
International Jewish Conspiracy (tm) it would have to be you, patsy.

I mean, how better to discredit holocaust revisionism than to have you
posting schoolyard baiting in their name?

>Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
>your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!

yeah, well, thanks patsy. Your check is in the mail. Could you try a
little more of this kind of stuff tho, it's more effective:

>Talk about pork sausage--Isn't it strange that any other less arrogant
>group of people would question: "Gee, after over 3,000 years of persecution
>and being thrown out of over a dozen countries, MAYBE IT'S US?  But no, we
>are to swallow the Talmudic logic that the Chosen are hated for being the
>[H
>it also weird that the Chosen seem to squat directly in the middle of the
>areas which supposedly contain the most anti-Semites,( i.e. big goyim cities)?
>GO FIGURE!!

I still think you're probably Berg, we'll find out.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:53:07 PST 1995
Article: 22295 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:29:01 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>
	
	 <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:20:08 GMT
Lines: 19


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Hey, patsy, is there any point you would like to make, other than
tossing schoolyard ka-ka-poo-poo remarks.

Is this your attempt to impress everyone here how holocaust-denial is
something that should be taken more seriously?

You're kidding, right.

Fortunately, you're typical.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews Tue Feb 21 23:53:38 PST 1995
Article: 22292 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: ANNY@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i55j5$42l@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$ <3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk4-24.ix.netcom.com

In  pat2413@delphi.com writes: 

>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single 
day.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'm not funded by anyone except myself.  
Can you tell me where I go to get some funding?  Where do you get yours?
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:53:40 PST 1995
Article: 22294 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:38:04 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>
	<3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$
	<3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>
	<3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk> 
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:26:14 GMT
Lines: 33


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.

Actually, if there's anyone here who might be a patsy for the
International Jewish Conspiracy (tm) it would have to be you, patsy.

I mean, how better to discredit holocaust revisionism than to have you
posting schoolyard baiting in their name?

>Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
>your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!

yeah, well, thanks patsy. Your check is in the mail. Could you try a
little more of this kind of stuff tho, it's more effective:

>Talk about pork sausage--Isn't it strange that any other less arrogant
>group of people would question: "Gee, after over 3,000 years of persecution
>and being thrown out of over a dozen countries, MAYBE IT'S US?  But no, we
>are to swallow the Talmudic logic that the Chosen are hated for being the
>[H
>it also weird that the Chosen seem to squat directly in the middle of the
>areas which supposedly contain the most anti-Semites,( i.e. big goyim cities)?
>GO FIGURE!!

I still think you're probably Berg, we'll find out.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:53:41 PST 1995
Article: 22295 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!world!bzs
From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:29:01 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>
	
	 <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:20:08 GMT
Lines: 19


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Hey, patsy, is there any point you would like to make, other than
tossing schoolyard ka-ka-poo-poo remarks.

Is this your attempt to impress everyone here how holocaust-denial is
something that should be taken more seriously?

You're kidding, right.

Fortunately, you're typical.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews Tue Feb 21 23:57:31 PST 1995
Article: 22292 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: ANNY@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:00:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3i55j5$42l@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk4-24.ix.netcom.com

In  pat2413@delphi.com writes: 

>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single 
day.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'm not funded by anyone except myself.  
Can you tell me where I go to get some funding?  Where do you get yours?
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


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Article: 22294 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:38:04 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
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	<3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$
	<3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:26:14 GMT
Lines: 33


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.

Actually, if there's anyone here who might be a patsy for the
International Jewish Conspiracy (tm) it would have to be you, patsy.

I mean, how better to discredit holocaust revisionism than to have you
posting schoolyard baiting in their name?

>Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
>your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!

yeah, well, thanks patsy. Your check is in the mail. Could you try a
little more of this kind of stuff tho, it's more effective:

>Talk about pork sausage--Isn't it strange that any other less arrogant
>group of people would question: "Gee, after over 3,000 years of persecution
>and being thrown out of over a dozen countries, MAYBE IT'S US?  But no, we
>are to swallow the Talmudic logic that the Chosen are hated for being the
>[H
>it also weird that the Chosen seem to squat directly in the middle of the
>areas which supposedly contain the most anti-Semites,( i.e. big goyim cities)?
>GO FIGURE!!

I still think you're probably Berg, we'll find out.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 22295 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:29:01 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>
	
	 <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:20:08 GMT
Lines: 19


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Hey, patsy, is there any point you would like to make, other than
tossing schoolyard ka-ka-poo-poo remarks.

Is this your attempt to impress everyone here how holocaust-denial is
something that should be taken more seriously?

You're kidding, right.

Fortunately, you're typical.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 22292 of alt.revisionism
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From: ANNY@ix.netcom.com (Annie Alpert)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: 18 Feb 1995 16:00:37 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nwk4-24.ix.netcom.com

In  pat2413@delphi.com writes: 

>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single 
day.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'm not funded by anyone except myself.  
Can you tell me where I go to get some funding?  Where do you get yours?
-- 
Annie Alpert
"History is bunk" --Henry Ford


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.cac.psu.edu!news.pop.psu.edu!hudson.lm.com!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:58:37 PST 1995
Article: 22294 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:38:04 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
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	<3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$
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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:26:14 GMT
Lines: 33


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.

Actually, if there's anyone here who might be a patsy for the
International Jewish Conspiracy (tm) it would have to be you, patsy.

I mean, how better to discredit holocaust revisionism than to have you
posting schoolyard baiting in their name?

>Good luck with your speech to your ADL paymasters...oh, be sure to wear
>your Yarmulke...renegade shabboz goy!

yeah, well, thanks patsy. Your check is in the mail. Could you try a
little more of this kind of stuff tho, it's more effective:

>Talk about pork sausage--Isn't it strange that any other less arrogant
>group of people would question: "Gee, after over 3,000 years of persecution
>and being thrown out of over a dozen countries, MAYBE IT'S US?  But no, we
>are to swallow the Talmudic logic that the Chosen are hated for being the
>[H
>it also weird that the Chosen seem to squat directly in the middle of the
>areas which supposedly contain the most anti-Semites,( i.e. big goyim cities)?
>GO FIGURE!!

I still think you're probably Berg, we'll find out.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!spool.mu.edu!olivea!uunet!world!bzs Tue Feb 21 23:58:38 PST 1995
Article: 22295 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
In-Reply-To: pat2413@delphi.com's message of Fri, 17 Feb 95 02:29:01 -0500
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>
	
	 <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>
	
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:20:08 GMT
Lines: 19


From: pat2413@delphi.com
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Hey, patsy, is there any point you would like to make, other than
tossing schoolyard ka-ka-poo-poo remarks.

Is this your attempt to impress everyone here how holocaust-denial is
something that should be taken more seriously?

You're kidding, right.

Fortunately, you're typical.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail Tue Feb 21 23:58:39 PST 1995
Article: 22303 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: 17 Feb 1995 10:11:03 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <3i2ea7$o53@access4.digex.net>
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In article ,   wrote:
>Danny Keren  writes:
> 
>>[Quote from (I believe) Hitler snipped]
> 
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

    First time I've heard Hitler referred to as a "Shabboz goy."

    Pat, why don't you master English before you try Hebrew?  You have no
idea how hilariously boneheaded your remark is.  I can certainly see why
someone who considers this a keen intellectual rebuttal would admire
Michael Hoffman.

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news2.near.net!news.delphi.com!usenet Wed Feb 22 06:15:06 PST 1995
Article: 22316 of alt.revisionism
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From: kfilan@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 22:06:37 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 20
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X-To: 

 writes:
 
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"
 
	Ummm... I believe Dr. Keren is Jewish.
 
	Thus, he would be a "Kike Bastard."
 
	I, on the other hand, would be a "Shabboz Goy."
 
	Please... if you're going to be a bigot, at least be an _informed_
bigot.
 
Peace
Kevin Filan
 
Kevin Filan				P.O. Box 231582
kfilan@	Old State House Station
Rakshasa PODSNet, FidoNet, IRC		Hartford, CT 06123
 


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Article: 22318 of alt.revisionism
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From: kfilan@delphi.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 22:09:59 -0500
Organization: Delphi (info@delphi.com email, 800-695-4005 voice)
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
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 writes:
 
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.
>Their job is to drag you into irrelevant and nonsensical debates to keep
>you from the main goal.  They are propagandists, pure and simple.  You're
>doing fine, and it's great to read listings from one of our people who
>hasn't turned into a sickening Majority renegade.
 
	Note... my local ADL representative is late with my check this
month.  As a result, I've had to pay my Delphi bill out of my own pocket.
Please see that this doesn't happen again.
 
	And pat... would you please define "Majority renegade" for us?
 
Peace
Kevin Filan
 
Kevin Filan				P.O. Box 231582
kfilan@delphi.com			Old State House Station
Rakshasa PODSNet, FidoNet, IRC		Hartford, CT 06123
	


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!sunserver.insinc.net!news.Direct.CA!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news1.digex.net!digex.net!not-for-mail Wed Feb 22 22:03:03 PST 1995
Article: 22326 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier pseudonyms, again
Date: 19 Feb 1995 12:39:07 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
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NNTP-Posting-Host: access1.digex.net

In article , Kevin Filan   wrote:
>Michael P. Stein  writes:
>>    Has Ken suddenly betrayed the IJC?  Or 
>>[Is] Pat2413 a pseudonym for [...] some grad student's
>>artificial intelligence project which still has a few bugs to work out? 
> 
>	You imply by that statement that pat2413 is artificial and
>intelligent.  Sad to say, he is neither...

    As for the artificial part, do you have any _physical evidence_
Pat2413 is a real human being?  On the intelligence side, I _said_ there
were a few bugs to work out, didn't I? 

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!winternet.com!host-55.dialup.winternet.com!joelr Thu Feb 23 05:47:06 PST 1995
Article: 22376 of alt.revisionism
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From: joelr@winternet.com (Joel Rosenberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:58:15
Organization: StarNet Communications, Inc
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In article  pat2413@delphi.com writes:

>Danny Keren  writes:
> 
>>Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I
>>send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war
>>without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood
>>that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate
>>millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?
> 
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Err... Dr. Keren isn't a goy, shabbos or otherwise, numbnuts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Rosenberg       | For news about upcoming books,  | My opinions are mine.
joelr@winternet.com  | finger joelr@winternet.com      | Whose are yours?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Article: 22383 of alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: help!!!
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <10604.9502141638@thor.brunel.ac.uk> 
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 04:01:07 GMT
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Sender: codfish@netcom17.netcom.com

clark (beastie@email.unc.edu) wrote:
: > By far the best work is "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" 
: > by Arthur R. Butz.
: > It is published by Noontide Press but I can't remember the ISBN. 
: > It deals with
: > the technical aspects of the 'holocaust' story, 
: > as well as the discussion of
: > keywords, terminology and its impact on the modern world.

: thank you for pointing me to the direction.  
: we will peruse this literature...

So far I seem to be the only revisionist responding to your query. 
Butz's book is 20 years old, and there's been a lot of water under the
bridge since then, including several forensic examinations of the alleged
homicidal gas chambers, that cast serious doubts on whether they were
indeed such. There were also the two Ernst Zuendel trials in Toronto, in
1985 and 1988, where thousands of pages of testimony were generated by
revisionists and anti-revisionists. 

I doubt that you're going to be able to find Butz's book at the UNC
library, but you might be able to get it on an interlibrary loan. The
easiest thing is just to order it from the IHR (the publisher) at
(714)631-1490.  A very readable account of the first Zuendel trial has
been written by Michael Hoffman.  He's just come out with a new edition. 
His email address is hoffman2nd@delphi.com.  For a summary of the evidence
in the second Zuendel trial see "Did Six Million Die?"  You can get that
from Zuendel at (416)922-9850.  I'm sorry this material is not more
readily available in libraries.  You might also want to check out the
IHR's www site at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr.  

                         Ross Vicksell
                     
                        posted and emailed



From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!festival!hwcee!pc09.cen.hw.ac.uk!cendbj Sat Feb 25 05:00:19 PST 1995
Article: 22414 of alt.revisionism
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From: cendbj@clust.hw.ac.uk (David Johnston)
Subject: Re: Ricky J. at Auschwitz?
Message-ID: 
Lines: 21
Sender: news@cee.hw.ac.uk (News Administrator)
Organization: Heriot-Watt University
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References: <3f4lrm$95j@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f7t80$n62@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3f81q2$b50@cat.cis.Brown.EDU>  <3fc284$ <3fdp2t$fcc@thor.brunel.ac.uk> <3ff5ho$s9h@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca> <3fgdjg$ehq@molnir.brunel.ac.uk> 
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 11:55:15 GMT

In article  pat2413@delphi.com writes:

>David Johnston  writes:
> 
>>>Quit wasting your time with these people--they are simply luring you into
>>>a meaningless debate to steer you away from the prime subject.  They tried
>>>it on me also.  Let's stick to the problem at hand.   Your ally.
> 
>Right on, Dave.  All I meant was that some of these guys are either ADL
>plants or funded by the ADL, because they're on this net every single day.
>Their job is to drag you into irrelevant and nonsensical debates to keep
>you from the main goal.  They are propagandists, pure and simple.  You're
>doing fine, and it's great to read listings from one of our people who
>hasn't turned into a sickening Majority renegade.

I did not write this. I am not, and never will be, your ally. Please try and 
get your attributions right.

David Johnston
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh


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Article: 22416 of alt.revisionism
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From: cendbj@clust.hw.ac.uk (David Johnston)
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Message-ID: 
Lines: 18
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References: <3fsfpd$dba@transit.nyser.net>   <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 1995 12:18:34 GMT

In article  pat2413@delphi.com writes:

>Danny Keren  writes:
> 
>>Nature is cruel; therefore we are also entitled to be cruel. When I
>>send the flower of German youth into the steel hail of the next war
>>without feeling the slightest regret over the precious German blood
>>that is being spilled, should I not also have the right to eliminate
>>millions of an inferior race that multiplies like vermin?
> 
>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Either Mr 2413 is an anti-revisionist out to make the revisionists look even 
stupider than they already do, or he's a complete moron. I can't decide which.

David Johnston (probably a "Slimy Kike" by Mr 2413's reasoning)
Heriot-Watt University
Edinburgh


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Article: 22422 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Video of the Century -- FREE!
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <9502110717313308@nwcs.org> <3hkorg$ef0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 01:37:03 GMT
Lines: 18
Sender: codfish@netcom20.netcom.com

HMazal (hmazal@aol.com) wrote:

: Mr. Vicksell has admitted that the so-called interview with Dr. Piper was
: reduced to a few seconds of out-of-context remarks.

I never admitted any such thing, The Piper segment is an unedited excerpt,
several minutes long, from the complete interview, which is available for
purchase from Bradley Smith.  I even offered to help Mr. Mazal get a copy
of the tape containing the complete interview, to allow him to verify for
himself that Piper's words had not been taken out of context.  Mazal
seemed to be reluctant to pay Bradley for the tape, so I suggested to
Bradley that he might give a free copy of of the tape to Mazal.  He
replied that the tape had cost him $8000+, in trip expenses for David and
his assistant, so he'd like to recover some of these costs.  Finally I
suggested to Mazal that he call Bradley himself and try to negotiate some
kind of deal.  He declined to do so. 

                  Ross Vicksell


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!news.cs.utah.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!bzs Sat Feb 25 18:43:07 PST 1995
Article: 22437 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: Fighting Holocaust denial on the Int
In-Reply-To: codfish@netcom.com's message of Tue, 21 Feb 1995 02:00:05 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <9502181529596.The_Win-D.donblack@delphi.com>
	<3i71tg$1g36@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 03:15:19 GMT
Lines: 40


From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
>John Morris (jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote:
>
>:  In a newsgroup set up by Holocaust deniers as a forum for 
>: Holocaust denial, there seems to be precious little denying going on 
>: for the last little while.
>
>That's not the way I got it from Dan Gannon. He says the newsgroup was set
>up by anti-revisionists as a shooting gallery where they could all bang
>away at him.  Maybe somebody present at the creation could set us straight 
>on who started it and when. 
>
>                 Ross Vicksell

I don't remember who started it exactly but I was here at creation.

Do you really see a lot of distinction between your description and
the one you're responding to? I don't, except as a matter of
perspective.

Gannon is inflammatory on the fairly rare occasion that he speaks for
himself, probably 85% of what he posted were just typed in IHR
documents, those documents certainly took heat, but then a lot of them
were fabrications and willful frauds.

Gannon posted all over under several pseudonyms, some were clearly
used to dissociate himself from some fairly crazy stuff so he could
just post away his hateful lunacy. His basic thesis was a) the allies
were responsible for all the deaths labelled the holocaust and b) no
one died, or very few. Yes, that kind of thinking can invite some
hooting from the audience. So what?

Freedom of speech doesn't mean you're guaranteed applause.

-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


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Article: 22438 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell)
Subject: Re: Fighting Holocaust denial on the Int
Message-ID: 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
References: <9502181529596.The_Win-D.donblack@delphi.com> <3i71tg$1g36@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 02:00:05 GMT
Lines: 12
Sender: codfish@netcom20.netcom.com

John Morris (jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote:

:  In a newsgroup set up by Holocaust deniers as a forum for 
: Holocaust denial, there seems to be precious little denying going on 
: for the last little while.

That's not the way I got it from Dan Gannon. He says the newsgroup was set
up by anti-revisionists as a shooting gallery where they could all bang
away at him.  Maybe somebody present at the creation could set us straight 
on who started it and when. 

                 Ross Vicksell


From oneb!kmcvay Sat Feb 25 18:43:09 PST 1995
Article: 22439 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Video of the Century -- FREE!
References: <9502110717313308@nwcs.org> <3hkorg$ef0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Feb26.003934.5779@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 95 00:39:34 GMT

In article  codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes:

>himself that Piper's words had not been taken out of context.  Mazal
>seemed to be reluctant to pay Bradley for the tape, so I suggested to
>Bradley that he might give a free copy of of the tape to Mazal.  He
>replied that the tape had cost him $8000+, in trip expenses for David and

Bradley was taken, big time. At the current price (free), the video
is grossly overpriced, amateurish, and devoid of impact.

He should ask Cole for his money back, old Brad should....

-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                      kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca 
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!wanda.pond.com!NewsWatcher!user Sun Feb 26 05:17:08 PST 1995
Article: 22442 of alt.revisionism
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From: landpost@pond.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question for Ross Vicksell, take TWO  (was Re: help!!!)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 21:02:20 -0500
Organization: FishNet
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <10604.9502141638@thor.brunel.ac.uk>   <3ib1g9$r8t@news0.cybernetics.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: star.pond.com

In article <3ib1g9$r8t@news0.cybernetics.net>, chip@cybernetics.net (Chip
Salzenberg) wrote:

> According to codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell):
> >...
> 
> Hey, Ross, I see you're back.
> 
> Weeks and weeks ago, I asked you a simple question that you failed
> to answer:
> 
>   If the Holocaust is a hoax, there must have been hoaxers.
>   If thousands of documents are forgeries, there must have been forgers.
>   Why hasn't even *one* of them come forward in all this time?
>   ** WHERE ARE THEY? **
> 
---------------------------

Uh, gee, several books have been mentioned here lately. Here's one. Go
get'em champ.

Joseph Halow
Innocent at Dachau (I think that is correct)
Institute for Historical Review, year?


Tim McCarthy
landpost@pond.com


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Article: 22448 of alt.revisionism
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From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: help!!!
Date: 20 Feb 1995 22:25 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
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Distribution: world
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50    

In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes...

>readily available in libraries.  You might also want to check out the
>IHR's www site at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr.  

    Didn't Greg make a fuss just a month or two ago arguing that his www
    site is his own and not the IHR's?

===========================================================================
daniel david mittleman     -     danny@arizona.edu     -     (602) 621-2932


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Article: 22451 of alt.revisionism
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Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DDT and the Gas Chamber Myth
Message-ID: 
From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein)
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 09:00:43 GMT
Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org
Sender: warren@itex.jct.ac.il
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  <3gq7mp$7u9@cat.cis.Brown.EDU> 
Organization: Mail to News Gateway at ITEX
Lines: 10

In  pat2413@delphi.com writes of Danny Keren

>Such a good and dutiful "Shabboz Goy"

Pity the poor antisemite who can't even recognize a Jew.
--
/|/-\/-\       The entire hall		Jerusalem
 |__/__/_/     is a very three-sided mathom.
 |warren@      But the weeder
/ nysernet.org is not all that worried.


From oneb!kmcvay Sun Feb 26 20:40:52 PST 1995
Article: 22453 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: help!!!
References:   <20FEB199522252633@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Feb27.043924.12484@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 95 04:39:24 GMT

In article <20FEB199522252633@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Daniel Mittleman) writes:

>In article , codfish@netcom.com (Ross Vicksell) writes...

>>readily available in libraries.  You might also want to check out the
>>IHR's www site at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr.  

>    Didn't Greg make a fuss just a month or two ago arguing that his www
>    site is his own and not the IHR's?

Mr. Raven is a "revisionist scholar," Daniel. Not long ago, during a
CBC Primetime Magazine documentary dealing with hate speech on the
Internet, Mr. Raven proudly noted that although the IHR "didn't have
a newstand presence," Internet users could now retrieve documents,
and, if "interested in the revisionist point of view," contact the
IHR for more information.

That statement suggests that Mr. Raven protesteth too much with
regard to "his" WEB home page.

That's not unusual, mind you, for a man who suffers from Raven's
Myopia - even now, for instance, he is having a difficult time
dealing with Mr. McCarthy's questions regarding the Leuchter
Report's positive demonstration of a physical gas chamber at
Maidanek... perhaps, in another eight months, Mr. Raven will finally
respond to those questions, perhaps opening with "No wonder you kept
them hidden from me, here in my mailbox...."


-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                      kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca 
             Vancouver Island, British Columbia, CANADA


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!not-for-mail Mon Feb 27 23:09:32 PST 1995
Article: 22454 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!not-for-mail
From: kmcvay@port.island.net (Ken Mcvay)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Fighting Holocaust denial on the Int
Date: 27 Feb 1995 15:38:05 -0800
Organization: Island Internet Inc. - (604) 753-2383
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <3itnot$kgp@port.island.net>
References: <9502181529596.The_Win-D.donblack@delphi.com> <3i71tg$1g36@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: port.island.net

In article ,
Ross Vicksell  wrote:

>That's not the way I got it from Dan Gannon. He says the newsgroup was set
>up by anti-revisionists as a shooting gallery where they could all bang
>away at him.  Maybe somebody present at the creation could set us straight 
>on who started it and when. 

Although I missed start-up for this group, by a month or so, I can comment
on how users reacted to Mr. Gannon's claptrap in soc.history, where he and
Mr. Argic were doing their utmost to destroy the newsgroup (and, in fact,
did precisely that).

Wonder of wonders, Mr. Gannon's regurgitated IHR propaganda was recognized
as precisely what it was: fascist propaganda that had little, if anything,
to do with history.

Weary of Mr. Gannon's (and "Mr." Argic's) tireless onslaught, users in
soc.history offered solutions - these included the creation of a mainline
newsgroup, dedicated to Holocaust "revisionism," using alt.revisionism, 
which had been created shortly before, etc.

Mr. Gannon fought (and lost, without ever getting to the CFD stage) to
create a soc.history.holocaust (or something similar) group. At one point,
I suggested two solutions. The first was to move the conversations to
this newsgroup, where they were clearly appropriate. The second was that
Mr. Gannon should issue a CFD for talk.politics.holocaust, since his 
material had nothing to do with history, and everything to do with politics.

Mr. Gannon never attempted the second option, since in doing so he perhaps
felt he would be admitting that his crap had nothing to do with history.
He did begin, although with obvious reluctance, to post to this group, 
along with other famous-for-their-history-content newsgroups, like that
bastion of WWII history debate, soc.college, and sci.skeptic, sci.physics,
sci.chem, misc.dildos, and any other group whose name he'd just discovered.

When soc.culture.jewish.holocaust was created, along with
soc.history.war.wwii and soc.history.moderated, all deliberately moderated
to eliminate Mr. Gannon and Mr. Argic, both of whom were (correctly, in my
opinion) perceived as wasters, soc.history died. It is now nothing more
than a trashbin for Turkish propaganda, avoided like the plague by anyone
who's been around the net for any length of time, with an interest in
history.

For what it's worth, I would still support the creation of
talk.politics.holocaust, which would provide mainline support for Holocaust
denial discussions. In the meantime, Ross, if you want to post to a history
group, you'll have to adhere to academic guidelines, which is something you
don't have to worry about here - where you any sort of denial crap can
(and is) be posted ad nauseum.




-- 
       The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
         kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca  kmcvay@port.island.net
             kmcvay@epaus.island.net  kmcvay@mala.bc.ca
                 Vancouver Island, British Columbia

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