The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/raven.greg/1995/raven.1095


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Sun Oct 15 17:46:25 PDT 1995
Article: 11135 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BIG QUESTION (was: Re: THE JEWISH TOMATO(E) CONSPIRACY (Re: BIG BROTHER))
Date: 15 Oct 1995 18:18:54 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <45146c$brj@zippy.cais.net>  <453d8k$ns1@zippy.cais.net> <45gn4f$4n6@eldborg.rhi.hi.is>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan075.kaiwan.com
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In article <45gn4f$4n6@eldborg.rhi.hi.is>, elias@rhi.hi.is (Elias Halldor
Agustsson) wrote:

> In message <453d8k$ns1@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >I would appreciate a reply on the posting "BIG QUESTION"  "Can a true
> >statement be anti-Semitic?"
> 
> Yes, for example if Tom Moran says "I hate the Jews," then that statement
> is both true and anti-Semitic.

The question desires a more nuanced answer than that. A better answer is
that it depends on whom is making the statement.

Here are some examples some true statements that are nevertheless
anti-Semitic when they were made by a non-Jew:

   Jews were overrepresented in the Bolshevik revolution.

   Jews are overrepresented in Hollywood.

Here are some examples of some true statements that are philo-Semitic when
they are made by Jews:

   Jews were overrepresented in the Bolshevik revolution.

   Jews are overrepresented in Hollywood.

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Mon Oct 16 07:04:54 PDT 1995
Article: 11135 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BIG QUESTION (was: Re: THE JEWISH TOMATO(E) CONSPIRACY (Re: BIG BROTHER))
Date: 15 Oct 1995 18:18:54 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <45146c$brj@zippy.cais.net>  <453d8k$ns1@zippy.cais.net> <45gn4f$4n6@eldborg.rhi.hi.is>
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In article <45gn4f$4n6@eldborg.rhi.hi.is>, elias@rhi.hi.is (Elias Halldor
Agustsson) wrote:

> In message <453d8k$ns1@zippy.cais.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >I would appreciate a reply on the posting "BIG QUESTION"  "Can a true
> >statement be anti-Semitic?"
> 
> Yes, for example if Tom Moran says "I hate the Jews," then that statement
> is both true and anti-Semitic.

The question desires a more nuanced answer than that. A better answer is
that it depends on whom is making the statement.

Here are some examples some true statements that are nevertheless
anti-Semitic when they were made by a non-Jew:

   Jews were overrepresented in the Bolshevik revolution.

   Jews are overrepresented in Hollywood.

Here are some examples of some true statements that are philo-Semitic when
they are made by Jews:

   Jews were overrepresented in the Bolshevik revolution.

   Jews are overrepresented in Hollywood.

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Mon Oct 16 07:04:55 PDT 1995
Article: 11179 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: racist filth
Date: 16 Oct 1995 00:56:50 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References: <457fpa$e5s@uuneo.neosoft.com> <4586l9$3m2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <270ellb5f.alamito@hathcok.nshore.org>
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In article <270ellb5f.alamito@hathcok.nshore.org>,
cmort@hathcok.nshore.org wrote:

> FAILURE to use proper terminology buys into the agenda of racists and 
> anti-semites.  The Nazis currently infesting talk.politics.guns have 
> explicitly stated that they want to be referred to as "National Socialists" 
> as opposed to "Nazis", the latter being PERCEIVED as negative.  They hope to 
> exploit historical ignorance to get their foot in the door.
> 
> Don't let them.


You obviously still feel badly about having been conned by Negroes to
change their terminology first to "Blacks," then to "African-Americans."

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Tue Oct 24 08:14:47 PDT 1995
Article: 12165 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,rec.arts.books
Subject: Re: racist filth
Date: 23 Oct 1995 01:13:10 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References: <457fpa$e5s@uuneo.neosoft.com> <4586l9$3m2@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <270ellb5f.alamito@hathcok.nshore.org>  <45ur62$18i@earth.superlink.net> <45v0po$neh@news1.panix.com>
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In article <45v0po$neh@news1.panix.com>, davemarc  wrote:

> pauli@superlink.net (paul ilechko) wrote:
> >greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You obviously still feel badly about having been conned by Negroes to
> >>change their terminology first to "Blacks," then to "African-Americans."
> 
> I was wondering why Greg Raven seemed so bitter about the minor 
> inconvenience of these changes in terminology.  Having looked over Greg 
> Raven's website (with its link to The Institute for Historical Review, 
> which advocates Holocaust revision and calls the new Holocaust Museum a 
> "monstrosity"), I'm even more puzzled.  Maybe he should think of the 
> terminology changes as linguistic revisionism.  Maybe then he won't sound 
> so resentful of "Negroes."


Your comment is not very clear. First, I am not bitter about these changes
in terminology, minor or otherwise. Second, my Web site does not have a
link to the Institute for Historical Review, which does not have its own
site. Third, what does the IHR and/or Holocaust revisionism have to do
with the topic at hand?

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Tue Oct 24 08:14:48 PDT 1995
Article: 12168 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan086.kaiwan.com!user
From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Waiting for Jeff's answer (Re: The Franke-Gricksch report)
Date: 23 Oct 1995 02:33:58 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <45m9ti$cm8@mn5.swip.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan086.kaiwan.com

In article <45m9ti$cm8@mn5.swip.net>,
stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se (Stephane Bruchfeld) wrote:

> Jeff  wrote:
> 
> 
> >Pressac ignores the Report's mention of a "special rail track into 
> >an area of the camp specifically set aside for this purpose." 
> >Although there was a rail spur into Birkenau, work was not begun on 
> >it until January, 1944. (This single reference, by the way, is enough by 
> >itself to show that this document is almost certainly a post-war 
> >forgery.
> 
> 
> What is your source for the citation? In Gerald Fleming's "Hitler
> and the Final Solution", p. 142, which ought to be your source as
> well if I understand you correctly, the wording is different:
> 
>         The Jews arrive in special trains (freight cars) toward evening
>         and are driven on special tracks to areas of the camp
>         specifically set aside for this purpose.
> 
> Now, did you change the wording on your own or do you quote
> from the report itself?

There is more information about this at my Web space. Check out:

    http://www.kaiwan.com:80/~greg.ihr/misc/fg.html

-- 
Greg Raven
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Tue Oct 24 08:14:49 PDT 1995
Article: 12170 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: David Irving bombs out in Seattle
Date: 23 Oct 1995 02:36:47 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan086.kaiwan.com

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> So, Irving's still trying to give talks to gangs of Nazi apes?
> How odd. After his recent statement that 4 million Jews died
> in the Holocaust, I figured he would not be very popular
> with them.


Why not? Irving is entitled to his opinion, and in his opinion, it is
possible that as many as 4 million Jews died, of all causes, during the
Second World War. For him, of course, "all causes" includes Allied bombing
deaths, disease, old age, Soviet slaughter, etc. In making this statement,
he did not limit Jewish deaths to "Nazi gas chambers" or executions in the
eastern territories.

-- 
Greg Raven
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Thu Oct 26 05:57:29 PDT 1995
Article: 12717 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Web page announcement:  "Raven's Position"
Date: 26 Oct 1995 05:13:54 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan097.kaiwan.com

In article , jamie@voyager.net
(Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> Mr. Raven,
> 
> I've just put together a web page pointing out that you lied about
> not being the President and CEO of the IHR.  Its URL is:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have any comments on this page, please send them to me at
> .  Thank you.
> 
> Posted to alt.revisionism, and emailed to Mr. Raven.


I long ago grew used to McCarthy's personal attacks on me, attacks which
at first seemed designed to lead everyone away from the topic at hand --
that being, the fact that he has no substantive evidence of the existence
of Nazi gas chambers. After reading his attacks on me and his weak and
devious attempts to create a Nazi gas chamber out of little more than thin
air, I figured there couldn't possibly be anything about which McCarthy
was less suited to discuss than specific Holocaust claims.

I should have known this would not be the case.

In his eagerness to smear me, thus increasing the possibility that he can
avoid providing substantive evidence for the existence of the Nazi gas
chambers on which he depends so fervently, McCarthy has ventured into the
area of the structure of the corporation where I work. Apparently,
McCarthy now imagines that he knows better our corporate structure than I
do.

So carried away has McCarthy become by his imagination, that he has now
posted at the above Web site materials that do absolutely nothing to show
what he claims they show. Rather, what they do show is that McCarthy is so
ideologically driven that he cannot or will not even read the material he
presents as evidence.

I submit that anyone who is so ideologically driven that he must distort
and mischaracterize documents to mean what he wants them to mean, as
McCarthy is, simply is unfit for the study of history. This will come as
no shock to those who have read his postings with a critical eye over the
months: If McCarthy cannot fathom the extremely basic corporate structure
he claims to have found at the IHR, he is prima facie incapable of adding
anything meaningful or relevant to the discussion about Holocaust claims.

-- 
Greg Raven
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr


From greg.ihr@kaiwan.com Thu Oct 26 06:04:45 PDT 1995
Article: 12717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!chi-news.cic.net!news.uoregon.edu!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!kaiwan097.kaiwan.com!user
From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Web page announcement:  "Raven's Position"
Date: 26 Oct 1995 05:13:54 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan097.kaiwan.com

In article , jamie@voyager.net
(Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> Mr. Raven,
> 
> I've just put together a web page pointing out that you lied about
> not being the President and CEO of the IHR.  Its URL is:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have any comments on this page, please send them to me at
> .  Thank you.
> 
> Posted to alt.revisionism, and emailed to Mr. Raven.


I long ago grew used to McCarthy's personal attacks on me, attacks which
at first seemed designed to lead everyone away from the topic at hand --
that being, the fact that he has no substantive evidence of the existence
of Nazi gas chambers. After reading his attacks on me and his weak and
devious attempts to create a Nazi gas chamber out of little more than thin
air, I figured there couldn't possibly be anything about which McCarthy
was less suited to discuss than specific Holocaust claims.

I should have known this would not be the case.

In his eagerness to smear me, thus increasing the possibility that he can
avoid providing substantive evidence for the existence of the Nazi gas
chambers on which he depends so fervently, McCarthy has ventured into the
area of the structure of the corporation where I work. Apparently,
McCarthy now imagines that he knows better our corporate structure than I
do.

So carried away has McCarthy become by his imagination, that he has now
posted at the above Web site materials that do absolutely nothing to show
what he claims they show. Rather, what they do show is that McCarthy is so
ideologically driven that he cannot or will not even read the material he
presents as evidence.

I submit that anyone who is so ideologically driven that he must distort
and mischaracterize documents to mean what he wants them to mean, as
McCarthy is, simply is unfit for the study of history. This will come as
no shock to those who have read his postings with a critical eye over the
months: If McCarthy cannot fathom the extremely basic corporate structure
he claims to have found at the IHR, he is prima facie incapable of adding
anything meaningful or relevant to the discussion about Holocaust claims.

-- 
Greg Raven
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr



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