The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/raven.greg/1994/raven.0694


Archive/File: holocaust/usa/ihr raven.0694
Last-Modified: 1994/09/07

From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!swrinde!pipex!warwick!uknet!EU.net!uunet!news.claremont.edu!kaiwan.com!DialupNewsWatcher!user Sun Jun  5 19:27:16 PDT 1994
Article: 12433 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: One question to revisionists
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 1994 08:36:15 -0800
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan.kaiwan.com

In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
Nenonen) wrote:

> The question is:
> 
> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the 
> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered
> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate
> all Jews in Europe?
> 
> Answer only this one question. I have many more waiting.
> 

The short answer is, "no."

-- 

Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail Sun Jun  5 23:06:04 PDT 1994
Article: 12439 of alt.revisionism
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From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: One question to revisionists
Date: 6 Jun 1994 01:21:09 +0300
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <2stj4l$nur@mits.mdata.fi>
References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi
X-ORIGINAL-NEWSGROUPS: alt.revisionism

In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:
>In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
>Nenonen) wrote:
>
>> The question is:
>> 
>> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the 
>> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered
>> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate
>> all Jews in Europe?
>> 
>> Answer only this one question. I have many more waiting.
>> 
>
>The short answer is, "no."
>

That's what I expected. You are beyound any rational reasoning. 
It's been shown here so many times already. So why should I
bother?
Not for you anyhow.
You don't want to know the truth because it would ruin your
ideals. Or you know it, but you want to distort it to
serve your purposes.
Holocaust revisionism is nazism in a very transparent 
disguise.
The Finnish Field Marshal Mannerheim said only one word
to his nearest general after he had discussed privately
with Himmler: "Disgusting!"
I think it's about all that any decent human being can
still say to any of you revisionists.




-- 
kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi        Look for your other half
Kari Nenonen                  who walks always next to you
Maavallintie 4,               and tends to be who you aren't
00430 Helsinki FINLAND                    Antonio Machado   


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!news1.digex.net!access.digex.net!not-for-mail Mon Jun  6 12:10:54 PDT 1994
Article: 12442 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: One question to revisionists
Date: 6 Jun 1994 00:02:13 -0400
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 18
Message-ID: <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net>
References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: access3.digex.net

In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:
>In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
>Nenonen) wrote:
>
>> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the 
>> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered
>> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate
>> all Jews in Europe?
>
>The short answer is, "no."

    The question I would like to have answered is, what then is your 
alternative explanation for why Himmler would make such a request?
-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!news.eunet.fi!prime.mdata.fi!mits.mdata.fi!not-for-mail Tue Jun  7 01:02:13 PDT 1994
Article: 12446 of alt.revisionism
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From: kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari Nenonen)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: One question to revisionists
Date: 6 Jun 1994 18:12:57 +0300
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <2svedp$4gs@mits.mdata.fi>
References: <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>  <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mits.mdata.fi

In article <2su745$4kg@access3.digex.net>,
Michael P. Stein  wrote:
>In article ,
>Greg Raven  wrote:
>>In article <2sora6$b47@mits.mdata.fi>, kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi (Kari
>>Nenonen) wrote:
>>
>>> If I can prove that Heinrich Himmler visited in Finland during the 
>>> WWII and tried to get the Finnish Jewish population to be transfered
>>> to Germany, would you believe that there was a plan to exterminate
>>> all Jews in Europe?
>>
>>The short answer is, "no."
>
>    The question I would like to have answered is, what then is your 
>alternative explanation for why Himmler would make such a request?

Exactly. Colonel Kalle Lehmus, the head of the Finnish military intelligence
service during WWII, tells in his memoirs "Tuntematon Mannerheim" ("Unknown
Mannerheim"), 1967, about the visit of Himmler:

"During his arriving day served lunch it however happened, that a couple
of Finns managed to persuade the SS-man who had been left to Himmler's
hotel room to guard his masters suitcase, to the hotel bar in the name
of the brotherhood of arms for a little time to have a wellcome grog, and
during that time the main contest of the suitcase was managed to photograf.
It wasn't about alleged SS-operations in Lappland after all, but about
the arragements of the Jewish question in the part of Finland.
In that suitcase - with which Himmler said not to part even when
at sleep - existing papers it occured, that in the 20 th of January,
1942 there had been a high level conference at the suggestion of
Himmler in Reinhard Heydrich's villa at Wannsee, Berlin, and that in
that conference had been definitely agreed about the final resolvement
('endg~ltige L|sung) of the question of the European Jews byt starting
large-scale physical extermenation."

Colonel Lehmus tells, that among other papers in that suitcase, was
the name list of every Finnish Jew. The news was immediately brought
to Mannerheim and the prime minister of Finland, who thus got some
time to prepare themselves to answer Himmler's claims. Finland's
attitude was quite clear from the beginning. "Only over my dead
body" said Mannerheim (the commander of Finnish army) to the
ministers.

The Finnish prime minister Rangell was heard about this right after the
war by the control commission of the allies. Rangell said that SS-
Reichsfuhrer Heidrich Himmler had in some occasion said that he wanted
to discuss about the Finnish Jewish question and he (Rangell) had 
answered that there is no Jewish question in Finland. End of that
discussion.

Excuse my less than perfect translation. The facts are there only
the language could be better.


-- 
kauhunen@mits.mdata.fi        Look for your other half
Kari Nenonen                  who walks always next to you
Maavallintie 4,               and tends to be who you aren't
00430 Helsinki FINLAND                    Antonio Machado   


From oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!psgrain!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!rat!zimmer!news Wed Jun  8 01:16:50 PDT 1994
Article: 211 of soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Subject: Re: nuremberg
Message-ID: 
Originator: rhorowit@mondrian.CSUFresno.EDU
Sender: news@zimmer.CSUFresno.EDU
Nntp-Posting-Host: mondrian.csufresno.edu
Title: Re: nuremberg
Organization: California State University, Fresno
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 02:41:00 GMT
Approved: dpaldric@gibbs.oit.unc.edu
Lines: 32

In article , levy@faure.ilog.fr (Bruno
Levy) wrote:
> I am looking for pointers to some reference and good books 
> on the nuremberg trial.
> It seems difficult to find any information on this subject.
> 
> Also, I would be interested to have your opinion on what are the most
> important lesson and fact that are associated with this event.
> I believe  that it is the first trial where someone was prosecuted for
>  'crime against humanity'. Am I right ?
> Also any pointers to the history of the legal concept of crime against humanity
> would be appreciated.
> I would appreciate that people answer to the net and also cc me.

One of the most important things to remember about Nuremberg was that it
was a trial of the vanquished by the victors.

Another interesting point is that many of the crimes for which the accused
were prosecuted were ex post facto, that is, created after the "crime"
itself.

For the background on these and similar trials, Telford Taylor (who was a
participant at the original trials) covers this in his latest book about
Nuremberg, the title of which escapes me at the moment. You may or may not
agree with what Taylor says, but it is interesting to see what he has to
say for himself after nearly fifty years of attempting to justify his
actions.

-- 

Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com




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