The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/raven.greg/1995/raven.0495


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Article: 23372 of alt.revisionism
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From: hkatz@earth (Harry Katz)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Funny fact of the jewish boycott prior to WWII!
Followup-To: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Date: 30 Mar 1995 21:54:57 GMT
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In article ,
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com) writes:

	From what I can gather, none of the Jewish boycotts against
	Germany (which started in 1933) had much adverse effect on the
	Germans or the German economy.

So much for the theory that Jews control global politics and that Jews
were strangling Germany's pre-war economy!


	It could hardly have failed to leave a bitter taste however, and
	it was probably one of the many things that later created
	friction between the Germans and the Jews.

Mr. Raven has his timetable slightly confused.  The call for a boycott
of German products was a reaction to the Third Reich's mistreatment of
German Jews, not vice versa.  In fact, German Jews opposed the boycott
for fear of exacerbating an already bad situation.

--
Harry Katz

He that hires one garden will eat birds; he that hires many gardens,
the birds will eat him.
	-- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.


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Article: 23405 of alt.revisionism
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From: mstein@access4.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionism: Frequently (Un-)answered Questions
Date: 30 Mar 1995 23:55:30 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
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In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:
>Testimony may be worthwhile to have, but it is not the best evidence ...
>certainly not when it contradicts physical laws.

    Note that Mr. Raven fails to mention what physical laws have been
contradicted by what testimonies; he merely asserts this is so by
implication. 


>> 2.  What physical evidence would you accept as proof for the
>> existance of a functional gas chamber?
>
>Assuming you mean a functional Nazi homicidal gas chamber, we would accept
>the chamber itself, photos of the chamber, or plans or drawings.

    Mr. Raven has repeatedly dodged the question of what evidence proves 
that a thing _was_ a functional Nazi gas chamber, a photo _is_ a photo of 
a functional Nazi homicidal gas chamber rather than just some random 
room, a drawing or plan _is_ a genuine plan of one, not a Soviet forgery 
or an innocent room which someone has falsely called a gas chamber.  He 
has also dodged the question of what standard of proof is to be used.


>> 5.  If the eyewitness accounts of mass murder are in fact false, who
>> coordinated all the witnesses so they would tell, essentially, the
>> same story?
>
>They do not all tell the same story.

    Note that Mr. Raven ignored the word "essentially."  Note that he 
provides no evidence, only an assertion.


>> 6.  Why did Hoess confirm his evidence that he had presented to the
>> International Military Tribunals *after* he had been sentenced to
>> death, thus having no benefit to himself?
>
>Well, he did have a family, and his family was threatened.

    Another assertion without evidence.


>> 14. What proof does Fred Leuchter have to support his assertion he
>> dealt with several prisons whose wardens state that he had never in
>> fact dealt with them?
>
>I am not privy to Leuchter's files. There is at least one magazine article
>and at least one television show about Leuchter that show that he has had
>contact with prison wardens, and has done work for prisons.

    Utterly irrelevant, of course, to the question of whether Leuchter 
lied about working for the two specific wardens referred to in the Zundel 
trial.

>I would add
>that Leuchter is a simple and honest man, and I can't imagine him lying.

    I don't see why not; Mr. Raven has a very active imagination.


>> 17. If the truth is on your side, why are there so many examples of
>> revisionists repeating statements they know to be false, editing
>> quotes and taking them out of context and avoiding, ignoring or
>> pretending they did not see certain questions put to them?
>
>Argumentative. I might ask the same thing about anti-revisionists.

    Mr. Raven provides no examples, only insinuation.

    Mr. Raven's own intellectual dishonesty in this regard has been 
thoroughly exposed.  Specifically, he has taken quotes from Arno Mayer 
out of context, used quotes from Deborah Lipstadt and Christopher 
Browning out of context, altered a quote from Himmler to make it more 
favorable, and paraphrased a comment by Pressac in a totally distorted 
and dishonest manner.  All of these have been previously posted; if anyone
wishes to see the evidence again, just ask.


>> 18. Why do revisionists, in the same articles protesting people
>> making money off the Holocaust, place ads for books and other
>> paraphenalia that are making money off the Holocaust?
>
>I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Really?




From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Let's hear both sides
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 23:10:29 -0800
Message-ID: 

THE HOLOCAUST: Let's Hear Both Sides

By Mark Weber

[...]

For many Jews, the Holocaust has become both a flourishing business and a
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
kind of new religion, as noted Jewish author and newspaper publisher Jacobo
Timerman points out in his book, The Longest War. He reports that many
Israelis, using the word Shoah, which is Hebrew for Holocaust, joke that
"There's no business like Shoah business." (note 14)

[...]

The IHR publishes numerous revisionist books, tapes and other materials, as
well as the bimonthly Journal of Historical Review. Send $2 for a packet of
literature and full listing of books. Or, order more copies of this
leaflet, postpaid, at the following prices:
10 copies: $2.00 -- 50 copies: $5.00
100 copies or more 8 cents each

[...]

The Journal of Historical Review, 6 times/year, $40
The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, $10.00 + $1.00 shipping





>> 19. If Himmler, in his speech at Posen in 1943, did not explicitely
>> state they were murdering people on a large scale then what was he
>> talking about, even though native German speakers and dictionaries
>> dating back well before the 1940s all agree that the words he used
>> meant extermination?
>
>This is a complex question that cannot be dealt with in a couple
>sentences. Regardless of what Himmler does or does not mean in his speech,
>it is beyond question that he does not mention 'gas chambers.' Yet, this
>speech was presented to me as proof that the Nazis had built homicidal gas
>chambers in which to murder Jews.

    This is false, and this has been explained before.  The speech was 
presented as proof of a policy of killing Jews, period.  Why this was 
done is explained below one more time.



>From mstein@access.digex.net Mon Apr 25 17:31:33 EDT 1994
From: mstein@access.digex.net (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Can we talk?
Date: 21 Apr 1994 20:35:00 -0400
Message-ID: <2p763k$19p@access2.digex.net>
References: <2p2a1i$ff0@kaiwan.kaiwan.com>

Greg Raven  wrote:
>Second, here is what Holocaust revisionists REALLY say: The Jews of Europe 
>suffered a great tragedy before and during the Second World War. Many were 
>mistreated, and many died under horrific conditions. However, a) there is 
								  ^^^^^^^^
>no evidence that the Nazis had a plan or policy of exterminating the Jews, 
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>b) there is no evidence that there were homicidal gas chambers for murder 
>Jews, and c) the figure of six million Jewish victims is an exaggeration.
[...]
>I imagine that some of you will take exception to at least some of these 
>statements. What I ask from those who do is simply this: Provide me with 
>what you think is the one or two best pieces of evidence that the Nazis had
>a plan to exterminate millions of Jews in homicidal gas chambers. Once you 
>provide what you think is the best evidence, I will respond.

    Well, I have two problems with *this* part of what you say.  First, I
myself have never believed that there was, as you put it, "a plan to
exterminate millions of Jews in homicidal gas chambers."  I don't know
anyone who does.  I believe there was an intent formulated by specific
Nazis at the highest levels of the German government (who thus had the
power to see that the intent was carried out, and used that power to that
end) to exterminate millions of Jews.  Gassing in fixed installations -
what can fairly be called gas chambers, some of which used Zyklon-B and
some of which used CO - was adopted as one means by some people involved
in carrying out the plan.  Others involved in carrying out the plan used
shooting, starvation, mobile CO gassing vans, burning alive, bayoneting -
whatever happened to be convenient to get the job done.  So you are
setting up a strawman. 




    Note that previously, Greg Raven asserted that there was no policy of 
exterminating Jews _at all_.  The Himmler speech is one of many pieces of 
evidence to the contrary, and was only presented as such.  Raven's 
attempts to claim that it was intended as proof of gas chambers as well 
is false, and by now he should know it is false.  However, I cannot prove 
he is lying, since he frequently claims never to have seen articles (and 
deletes email copies of articles unread, or claims to, in order to 
preserve his ability to claim that he never saw the refutation of his 
falsehoods).

>Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
>Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr

    Jamie McCarthy's web page points to Greg Raven's.  However, despite 
repeated requests, Mr. Raven has never returned the courtesy.  What is 
Greg Raven afraid of?

-- 
Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.


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Article: 23705 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: kfilan@netcom.com (kevin filan)
Subject: Questions for Greg Raven
Message-ID: 
Cc: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
Distribution: World
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 11:37:56 GMT
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Sender: kfilan@netcom12.netcom.com

Dear Mr. Raven:

	I have been following "alt.revisionism" for some time now.  So 
far, it seems that you are one of the most intelligent and reasonable 
"revisionists" posting here.  I deplore the constant bickering and 
name-calling which is a staple of this newsgroup (and am the first to 
admit that the "exterminationists" can be as guilty of this as the rest) 
and would like to see, for a change, a little _reasoned_ discussion.  

	With that in mind, here are a few questions.  While I am 
addressing them to you, I am aware that there are differences among 
revisionists.  You can't (and probably wouldn't want to!) speak for 
everyone, but I would be interested in your personal opinion on these 
matters.

	1) Revisionists seem to believe that the commonly accepted death 
figures for the Holocaust (around 6 million Jews, about that many 
non-Jewish "undesirables") are exaggerated.  What, based on your 
estimates, would be a more accurate figure? I'm not asking for an exact 
number, mind you... merely a general estimate.  If you could include the 
reasons you would feel this number is more accurate that the "Six 
Million" figure, I'd appreciate it.

	2) The pre-war Jewish population of Poland is estimated at 
anywhere between 2 million and 3.5 million.  Today's Jewish population of 
Poland is only a few thousand.  Do you have any idea where all these Jews 
went, if they were not killed?  (You will forgive me for stating that I 
find the "they're all behind the Iron Curtain" argument to be somewhat 
less than convincing, especially as none of them have shown up now that 
the Iron Curtain has fallen).

	3) You've said that some Rabbis welcomed the Nuremburg Laws, as 
they prohibited intermarriage.  Can you give me some specific examples of 
this? (i.e. some quotes from some Rabbinical organizations)

	4) I've gathered (and again, correct me if I'm wrong) that you 
feel the stories of Nazi atrocities against Jews were overstated.  What, 
in your best estimation, _was_ life like for a Jew living in World War II 
Europe?  The "conventional wisdom" suggests that it was very hard indeed; 
can you give me an example of some Jews who went through the war 
suffering no more than, say, their Gentile neighbors?

	I apologize for not having researched this matter more fully; 
unfortunately, present constraints on my time and lack of a Web Browser 
(I suspect I'm the only person in cyberspace who's still using a 286!) 
make this difficult.  

	Again, thank you for your time, and have a good day.

	(posted and E-mailed)

Peace
Kevin Filan



-- 
________________________________________________________________
Kevin Filan			*	P.O. Box 231582
kfilan@netcom.com		*	Old Statehouse Station
Rakshasa PODSnet, FidoNet, IRC	*	Hartford, CT 06123
________________________________________________________________   
"Toto... I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."


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Article: 24189 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology=SCAM!
Date: 16 Apr 1995 03:43:39 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
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References:  <1995Apr15.221318.28550@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

In article <1995Apr15.221318.28550@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>,
kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay) wrote:

> In article  bf221@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Rick Knight) writes:
> 
> >Didn't L.Ron Hubbard(the founder of scientology) bet a group of his friends
> >that he could create a new religion? He based his confidence in his
> >ability to do this on his understanding of the average person's stupidity
> >and willingness to believe what they are told without question as long as
> >it's fashionable. He based his new religion on the fashionable new-age
> >movement and included themes such as the paranormal and aliens to attract
> >all the fools out there in TV land. My hat's off to Mr Hubbard!
> 
> Yes, indeed - and Scientologists are now firmly in control of the
> Institute for Historical Review, perpetrating yet another massive
> scam.

Your information about the IHR is as faulty as your information about
Holocaust extermination claims. Scientologists are not in control -- firm
or otherwise -- of the IHR.

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


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Article: 24190 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All revisionists please read!
Date: 16 Apr 1995 03:47:13 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 15
Message-ID: 
References: <3mn0kq$if0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <3motko$dot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

In article <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> Figures for camp registrations are irrelevant for determining the numbers 
> killed at the camps.  Most of the victims were moved directly from the trains 
> to the gas without registration.

Are you saying that the absence of proof is proof, or do you have some way
of counting these uncounted victims that you have not shared?

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


From oneb!kmcvay Mon Apr 17 05:57:10 PDT 1995
Article: 24200 of alt.revisionism
Xref: oneb alt.revisionism:24200 alt.religion.scientology:9832
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology
Path: oneb!kmcvay
From: kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca (Ken Mcvay)
Subject: Re: Scientology=SCAM!
References:  <1995Apr15.221318.28550@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> 
Organization: The Old Frog's Almanac
Message-ID: <1995Apr17.125505.12272@oneb.almanac.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 12:55:05 GMT

In article  greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) writes:

>Your information about the IHR is as faulty as your information about
>Holocaust extermination claims. Scientologists are not in control -- firm
>or otherwise -- of the IHR.

I'm certainly glad to hear you say that, Mr. Raven. May I assume
then that neither you nor Mr. Weber are, as reported elsewhere,
members of the Church of Scientology?

-- 
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                      kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca 
          http://www.island.net/~kmcvay/rue/RUE1-HomePage.html


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Article: 24214 of alt.revisionism
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From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All revisionists please read!
Date: 17 Apr 1995 15:28:21 GMT
Organization: Philosophers of the Dangerous Maybe
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <3mu1el$kui@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <3mn0kq$if0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <3motko$dot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu

In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:

>Are you saying that the absence of proof is proof, or do you have some way
>of counting these uncounted victims that you have not shared?

Have you considered actually reading Hilberg's or Dawidowicz's books,
in which they explain in detail how they derived their figures, or would
that be too much trouble?

					Richard Schultz


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Article: 24236 of alt.revisionism
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From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The closing of Marco Polo magazine in Japan.
Date: 16 Apr 1995 03:51:04 GMT
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <3mfvhi$5pm@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kaiwan009.kaiwan.com

In article <3mfvhi$5pm@inforamp.net>, frntline@inforamp.net wrote:

> lippard@Primenet.Com (James J. Lippard) wrote:
> 
> 
> >
> >[The following is posted on behalf of Michael Shermer, 
> >publisher of _Skeptic_  magazine (shermer@skeptic.com). 
> >-jjl]
> >
> >Subject: The closing of Marco Polo magazine in Japan.
> >From: Michael Shermer, Skeptic magazine
>   
> Personaly I have never heard of either one, however...
> 
> >I suspect I do not have anything close to the full 
> >story and would like to  know what anyone out there in 
> >cyberspace has on this so we can accurately  report on 
> >it in Skeptic magazine.
> 
> If the conclusion you come to is controversial,will YOU publish 
> it?

The full story behind the closing of Marco Polo magazine can be found in
the March/April Journal of Historical Review. Anyone wishing to get
background information on this incident can get a 30-page documentation
package from the IHR in exchange for a $20 donation.

-- 
Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659


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Article: 24237 of alt.revisionism
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From: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Subject: Re: All revisionists please read!
In-Reply-To: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com's message of 16 Apr 1995 03:47:13 GMT
Message-ID: 
Sender: bzs@world.std.com (Barry Shein)
Organization: The World
References: <3mn0kq$if0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <3motko$dot@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
	<3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
	
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 04:10:14 GMT
Lines: 34


From: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven)
>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>
>> Figures for camp registrations are irrelevant for determining the numbers 
>> killed at the camps.  Most of the victims were moved directly from the trains 
>> to the gas without registration.
>
>Are you saying that the absence of proof is proof, or do you have some way
>of counting these uncounted victims that you have not shared?

Don't be so disingenuous, offering an incomplete count of camp
registrations as an upper-bound on the number of deaths in that camp
is flawed evidence for the reason described.

He wasn't trying to prove anything, per se, the person who offered the
camp registration numbers was trying to prove something. He just
pointed out that the evidence offered was crap (to make that
particular point, it might be useful in some other context.) And it
is.

Rather than an upper-bound it would seem to suggest evidence towards
some lower-bound. Quite a different thing.

For someone who makes his entire living off of disputing evidence, and
with virtually none of your own, this was a pretty cheap shot even for
you.


-- 
        -Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die    | bzs@world.std.com          | uunet!world!bzs
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202        | Login: 617-739-WRLD


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news Tue Apr 18 23:50:40 PDT 1995
Article: 24246 of alt.revisionism
Path: oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news
From: jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All revisionists please read!
Date: 16 Apr 1995 08:48:49 GMT
Organization: University of Alberta
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <3mqllh$fj0@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
References: <3mn0kq$if0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <3motko$dot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> 
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In article , greg.ihr@kaiwan.com says...
>
>In article <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>
>> Figures for camp registrations are irrelevant for determining the numbers 
>> killed at the camps.  Most of the victims were moved directly from the trains 
>> to the gas without registration.
>
>Are you saying that the absence of proof is proof, or do you have some way
>of counting these uncounted victims that you have not shared?

No. Don Van Handel quoted the camp registrations as if they were meaningful in 
and of themselves.  I assert only that by themselves they prove nothing about 
the numbers of victims.

Nevertheless, I assume that you, as a professional historian for the IHR, are 
aware of the more important studies of the Holocaust and the resources used to 
arrive at the numbers that they do.  Among these resources are the SS reports 
on the activities of the Einsatzgruppen, the Korherr report, the records of the 
transports to the extermination camps, and census information.

On the matter of census information, I note in passing that I have taken
on the task of marking up the IHR's "66 Questions and Answers" for Ken
McVay's forthcoming Nizkor web pages. Perhaps you could explain how it is
that you assert in question 1 that there are no credible demographic 
statistics for the numbers of Jews in Nazi-controlled Europe, yet in question 
15 you assert, in one version of the questions, that there were less than 
4 million and, in another version, that there were less than 6 million. Are 
we to assume from this that you have used *in*credible demographic statistics?
Or are we to assume that you have found that there are some useful demographic 
statistics upon which to base an estimate of the numbers of victims?

-- 
 John Morris                               
 at University of Alberta     
-- 
While on the Web, why not visit:
          The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
   (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
                      kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca 
          http://www.island.net/~kmcvay/rue/RUE1-HomePage.html



From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.starnet.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!kfilan Tue Apr 18 23:50:41 PDT 1995
Article: 24273 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: kfilan@netcom.com (kevin filan)
Subject: Re: All revisionists please read!
Message-ID: 
Cc: greg.ihr@kaiwan.com 
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
References: <3mn0kq$if0@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> <3motko$dot@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <3mpdci$1csg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> 
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 16:26:58 GMT
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In article ,
Greg Raven  wrote:
>
>Are you saying that the absence of proof is proof, or do you have some way
>of counting these uncounted victims that you have not shared?

	A good question.  I too am curious as to how these estimates can 
be drawn.  I suspect you could use the records of Jews "deported" from 
various areas into the camps, and compare this with the number of camp 
"survivors" after liberation.  However, there may be other ways, and I 
look forward to hearing them from the members of this group.

	While we're on the subject, here are a few other questions: you 
were probably busy and missed them last time, so I can repost them.

	1) Prior to World War II, there was a large Jewish population in
Poland.  (Estimates range from 2.5 to 3.5 million).  Today the Jewish
population of Poland is only a few thousands.  Where did these Jews go? 
(One wag suggested "New York and Miami Beach;" I posted the U.S.
immigration figures for 1936-45 and showed that would be an 
impossibility.  Another correspondent of mine suggested they are in 
Argentina: since there are only 350,000 Jews in Argentina, I think we 
will have to look elsewhere).

	The most common response is that they are all "behind the Iron 
Curtain."  The Iron Curtain no longer exists... why have not these Jews 
come forward en masse? What is your explanation for this "lack of Jews" 
in Poland?

	2) You've stated that some Rabbis welcomed the Nuremburg laws 
because they prohibited intermarriage.  Could you give me some citation 
which suggests this? I'm not saying by any means that you are wrong; it's 
merely that this seems somewhat unusual to me.  

	3) I've gathered you think Nazi excesses against the Jews have 
been exaggerated.  (Please correct me if I'm wrong).  If so, what do you 
think is a _true_ example of Jewish life in World War II Europe? What 
would a typical Jewish family living in the Reich have gone through 
during the period 1936-1945? 

	4) What to you would constitute "physical evidence" that a 
drawing of a gas chamber was indeed a drawing of a gas chamber, that a 
photo of a gas chamber was indeed genuine, or that a room had in fact 
been used for gassing "undesirables" and not for delousing? 

	5) What is your opinion of the various neo-Nazis and anti-Semites 
who have begun supporting the cause of "Holocaust revisionism?" 

	I await your response (and the response of other Revisionists 
here) and wish you a happy Easter.

Peace
Kevin Filan


-- 
________________________________________________________________
Kevin Filan			*	P.O. Box 231582
kfilan@netcom.com		*	Old Statehouse Station
Rakshasa PODSnet, FidoNet, IRC	*	Hartford, CT 06123
________________________________________________________________   
"Toto... I don't think we're in Kansas anymore..."


From oneb!news.port.island.net!news.island.net!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news.dgsys.com!DGS.dgsys.com!alerma Wed Apr 19 07:17:51 PDT 1995
Article: 24320 of alt.revisionism
Xref: oneb alt.revisionism:24320 alt.religion.scientology:9907
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From: alerma@dgsys.com (alerma)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology
Subject: Re: Scientology=SCAM!
Followup-To: alt.revisionism,alt.religion.scientology
Date: 17 Apr 1995 20:31:09 GMT
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Ken Mcvay (kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca) wrote:
: In article  greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) writes:

: >Your information about the IHR is as faulty as your information about
: >Holocaust extermination claims. Scientologists are not in control -- firm
: >or otherwise -- of the IHR.

: I'm certainly glad to hear you say that, Mr. Raven. May I assume
: then that neither you nor Mr. Weber are, as reported elsewhere,
: members of the Church of Scientology?

: -- 
:           The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
:    (For full file listing, send INDEX to listserv@oneb.almanac.bc.ca)
:                       kmcvay@oneb.almanac.bc.ca 
:           http://www.island.net/~kmcvay/rue/RUE1-HomePage.html
 A fellow named Marcellus, an Feild Staff member for the Cof$, worked his
way into the confidence of Willis Carto, the Chairman of liberty lobby, which
ran the IHR. Marcellus spent 13 years gaining Willis' confidence. Marcellus
brought some friends into IHR who were member of Cof$. At an opportune point
in the litigion surrounding control of IHR, Marcellus offerred himself as
a 'disinterested' party who could be named in control of IHR, as a caretaker
whilst the court concluded its business. In a blink of the eye, Marcellus
went from trusted friend of Mr Carto, to enemy, as he took control of IHR
for someones ends... -  Is it just circumstantial that Marcellus was a
Scientologist, a Field Staff Member, or was MArcellus acting as a mole for
another octupus like group - the OSA of the Cof$?

Marcellus's known involement with Cof$ created a need for him to very 
recently 'publicly resign from IHR'...

But what about his buddies?


The whole scene here stinks of OSA tactics..


But then, this is only this observers opinion.


Truth becomes quite malleable in the hands of those adept at PR manipulation.


Arnie Lerma





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