Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:12:45 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >What would you concsider "proof," David? Tell us what your standards of
> >evidence are.
>
> One shread of evidence....One written communication from one German officer
> to another...in a country of 60 million people, that should be very easy to
> produce....The Germans are very careful record-keepers....And it is not
> practical to believe that everything was done word-of-mouth......Only
> children believe in the holocaust....adults need proof.....Jews were
> traitors that were concentrated...nothing more, nothing less...You still
> have not proved that there was a concerted effort on the part of the Third
> Riech to kill Jews.....and you have had over 50 years to do it...Time is
> running out.

Thank you for your kind response. I am pleased to see that you will accept one
written communication "from one German officer to another," because there are a
good many of those. How many of these would you like to see, David?

Does this suggest anything to you, David:

"Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen.
Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg
herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine
Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muß die
notwendige Folge sein"

"With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean
sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war,
they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word.
The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary
consequence." (Joseph Goebbels, diary entry, Dec. 12, 1941)

On Dec. 18, 1941, Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler wrote, in his notes regarding a
meeting with Hitler at the Wolfsschanze,

"Judenfrage / als Partisanen auszurotten"

"Jewish Question / to be exterminated like the partisans"

Perhaps you would find the testimony of German officers of interest, David. The
most recent examples can be found in thr trial of Eichmann - nizkor has the
complete transcripts, at
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/ - Erich Von Dem
Bach Zelewski had this to say (among other things):

"At that time I also heard of illegal activity on the part of these Operations
Units. I believe that all generals in the East knew about this. By illegal
activity, I mean shootings by the Operations Units, which took place without
any basis in law. I was not informed as to the complete extent of this
activity. Only after the end of the War did I become aware of that. I should
also like to stress that both the Generals and I did not approve of this
illegal activity and were critical of it.

"As far as I know, for supply purposes the Operations Units were subordinate to
the Army Groups or Armies. From conversations I had with Nebe and his successor
Naumann, when I met them in Russia - both of whom led Operations Units - I got
to know that they received their operational orders directly from the Head
Office for Reich Security. I do not know any details as to how the orders were
transmitted, nor do I know any details about the actual orders. At the time I
understood the assignment of the Operations Units to be the liquidation of
underground movements and the extermination of Jews."

His last rank, by the way, was SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the
Waffen-SS and Police.

You might also want to read the Franke-Gricksch Report, which nizkor has, at
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/franke-gricksche.html -
there's an image of the German original.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:29:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> Phil
>
> How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
> body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?

Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The crematory
ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
extensive.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:34:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The only thinking warped is yours and that of your filthy
> >talmud.....you are
> >> an enemy of Christ, and that is obvious to all who have read what
> >what you
> >> have written...you and your lot will suffer the same fate you have
> >> experienced in every other country which you have fled.
> >
> >
> >It is your thinking that is warped. No true Christian would
coutenance
> >it for a minute. The only thing filthy about the Talmud are the lies
> >and distortion told about it. You should be more concerned with your
> >own fate on judgment day.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> Mathews, I don't believe for one minute that besides you, that there
> is anyone on this list that doesn't know the filth that resides in
> your Talmud.

What they think they know, or are more than willing to believe, is
neither here nor there. Like you, they probably know next to nothing
about it, except what is fed to them by antisemites, often website
based.

 It's common knowledge what is contained within the pages
> of it. It is anti-christ just like you apparently are.

It's is common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions of those
who seek a reason to denigrate Jews.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:36:42 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/99 11:44:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << And you're a Jew hater.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
> Thank You

Your welcome. Now explain it to the Lord.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:40:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

> >Charles wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=624
> >> Mr. Mathews it may intrest you to know that, Russian
> >> Jews killed over 60 million WHITE Christians during
> >> the Russian revolution. It is also a historical fact!
> >
> >How do you know they were all Christians? How do you know it was 60
> >million?  Where are all the bodies and what was the cause of death?
> >Have you seen 60 million autopsy reports? What evidence do you have
for
> >this historical fact?
> >>
> >> Now ask one of the White Christian victims or their
> >> families if they love the jews who killed them .
> >
> >They were not killed by Jews, they were killed by Soviet Communists,
>
>
> Same people!

Nonsense. I note you avoided answering the questions!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:22:11 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: philnancy@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:18:15 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-555-david_223 Tue Aug 31 06:23:40 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=567
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: philnancy@aol.com
> > >Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
> > >To: 13texan@eGroups.com
> > >Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
> > >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:23:18 -0700
> > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > >From 13texan-return-509-david_223 Mon Aug 30 13:25:47 1999
> > >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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> > >21:23:28 -0000
> > >Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
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>-0000
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>with SMTP;
> > >30 Aug 1999 20:23:26 -0000
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> > >21:23:25 -0000
> > >Message-ID: <7qep7m$thha@eGroups.com>
> > >In-Reply-To:  <2f441168.24fc3f90@aol.com>
> > >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.76
> > >X-Mailer: eGroups Message Poster
> > >
> > >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=531
> > > > In a message dated 8/30/99 9:48:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > > philnancy@aol.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > << The fact that Karl Marx was a non practicing Jew doesn't mean
> > >Communism
> > > >  is a Jewish political system. I very much doubt your contention
>about
> > > >  1935 and the Politboro composition. Any source for it?
> > > >
> > > >  Philip Mathews >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My Awakening by David Duke 1998...This book will give you more
> > >references
> > > > than you would care to read.
> > >
> > >David Duke is bereft of any knowledge, education, or insight that
>would
> > >interest me. Mr. Duke is hardly an expert on communism or political
> > >philosophy.  His opinions are based on his racism and hatred, not
> > >learning.
> >
> >
> > And when the talmud states that it is ok for Jews to have sex with 3
>year
> > old little girls, what is that based
> > on?...education?...learning?...knowledge?..
>
>Believing that is based on gross ignorance and hate. You might as well
>quote me passages on the existence of UFO's and body snatching..........
>
>Philip Mathews

You're ranting....Here is what your dirty book states, as I'm sure you know
very well....but for the sake of Jesus' followers, I'll post it:

Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three
years "and a day" old)

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: What is really going on here.
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:35:25 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: What is really going on here.
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:08:36 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-566-david_223 Tue Aug 31 11:12:22 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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>[209.215.8.118]) by mail1.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.3a/8.9.3) with SMTP id
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>
>Phil the jew lie I am speaking of is the lie that
>the KHAZAR jew are the people who were written about
>in the Bible.
>
>Now go argue with the jews at khazaria.com please!
>
>I will have no more...........
>
>Charles

So true, Charles...I believe that the jews really know that they are not
Israel; but neither do they care...it justs suits their interests to keep
this jew lie going....even the apostle Paul said that the jews were
"contrary to all men".....but someday the lie will be uncovered, and the
jews will again have to find another land to flee to; as they have had to so
many times in their dirty history.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:43:14 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:15:43 EDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-599-david_223 Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
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>-0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: 
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>
>In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gormanh@home.com
>writes:
>
><< David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis? Were
>they also
>  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
>
>Herb,
>     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It wasn't
>"their"
>own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host country
>they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany even
>those in that country.....
>Michael Snead

Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933; not the
other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to allow the
Jews to keep their children with them in prison...Can you imagine how the
Jews would be screaming now, if Herr Hitler had ripped the little Jewish
babies out of their mother's arms?.....Some people are so hard to please,
Michael.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:49:16 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: philnancy@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:23:56 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-578-david_223 Tue Aug 31 18:27:13 1999
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>
>David Griffin wrote:
>
>
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=597
>
> >
> > I believe Mr. Snead asked you what what religion you adheared
>to....did I
> > miss your answer?
>
>You did not.
>
>
>...your tone is defineately Jewish...which would account
> > for your support of His enemies.
>
>Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
>are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
>Philip Mathews

You're ranting, Philip :)

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:00:30 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:54:51 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-621-david_223=hotmail.com@returns.egroups.com Tue Aug
>31 20:56:23 1999
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>
>Phil
>
>How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
>body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?
>I do ! I was once offered the opportunity to attend a school
>to learn the art of cremation for a hospital where I worked.
>
>This is my last message to this list... God Bless and Keep
>His Sheep untill the time we all meet in His Kindom .
>
>Charles
>

Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with "Herb
Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of most of
the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

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Subject: [13texan] Be it know as for me !
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:23:29 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

> Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with "Herb
> Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of most of
> the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.
>
> Hail Jesus' Victory!
> David

   I really have no intrest in all this Who gassed jews etc... talk , I
am
mostly interested in Bible and Ealry Church History and fellowshiping
with
other Christian Identity people to learn views and share opinions about
these
subjects.

If anyone wants to talk about these subjects, I will welcome their input
into
this area of conversation... However I refuse to be drawn into this
Pro-Jewish
Pro-Communist propaganda.

1. I believe Adam was the first white man.
2. Eve had sex with the evil one.
3. Christ Kingdom is hear and no as well as in His Fathers House
[Heaven]
that it is a spiritual place where flesh and blood can not enter into.
4. When we who are saved die we go to live with Christ in His Kindom and
that His Kindom is not and nor will it ever be part of this earth.

If someone comment does not address these issues I care not to readdress
them!

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:08:34 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> > > >
> > > >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=531
> > > > > In a message dated 8/30/99 9:48:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > > > philnancy@aol.com writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > << The fact that Karl Marx was a non practicing Jew doesn't
mean
> > > >Communism
> > > > >  is a Jewish political system. I very much doubt your
contention
> >about
> > > > >  1935 and the Politboro composition. Any source for it?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Philip Mathews >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My Awakening by David Duke 1998...This book will give you more
> > > >references
> > > > > than you would care to read.
> > > >
> > > >David Duke is bereft of any knowledge, education, or insight that
> >would
> > > >interest me. Mr. Duke is hardly an expert on communism or
political
> > > >philosophy.  His opinions are based on his racism and hatred, not
> > > >learning.
> > >
> > >
> > > And when the talmud states that it is ok for Jews to have sex
with 3
> >year
> > > old little girls, what is that based
> > > on?...education?...learning?...knowledge?..
> >
> >Believing that is based on gross ignorance and hate. You might as
well
> >quote me passages on the existence of UFO's and body
snatching..........
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
> You're ranting....Here is what your dirty book states, as I'm sure
you know
> very well....but for the sake of Jesus' followers, I'll post it:
>
> Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically,
three
> years "and a day" old)

It is the manner of the Talmud to examine extreme theoretical cases in
order to precisely define and delineate legal concepts.
Such study is mandated because the laws are part of the Written and
Oral Torah, not necessarily because they have practical
application.

There are different legal consequences arising from an act of
intercourse (related to personal status, punishment for rape,
property rights etc.) and the Talmud investigates whether such an act
committed on a baby girl has the status of intercourse or
not. There is an ancient tradition that states that if the girl is
older than the age of three then an act of intercourse was
committed; before that age, such an act does not have the status of
sexual intercourse for legal purposes (it may be an act of
assault, of course).

The passage in question states as follows: "A girl of three years and a
day is [capable of being] married by an act of intercourse
..." and the Talmud continues to list further legal consequences of an
act of intercourse (laws of personal status, property etc.).

The reference to marriage refers to a case in which the father of the
girl delivers his daughter to a man with the intention that he
create a marriage bond with his daughter by having relations with her.
>From a legal point of view this procedure creates a
marriage with all the legal consequences that flow therefrom. This is a
legal conclusion which has nothing to do with rabbinic
endorsement of such practices or with the number of such occurrences in
history.

In fact the rabbis strongly opposed formation of the marriage bond by
intercourse (at any age) and punished those who acted
in such manner (Kidushin 12b). They further taught that the father's
right to marry off his daughter was to be used for her
benefit. The age and manner of marriage is to a large extent a societal
variable but at Kidushin 41a the rabbis taught: "It is
forbidden for a man to betroth his daughter while she is young [but
rather he should wait] till she has grown and says 'This is
the one I want [to marry]" and this teaching is repeated elsewhere in
the Talmud.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:22:15 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=659
>
>
>
> >From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
> >Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
> >To: 13texan@egroups.com
> >Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
> >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:15:43 EDT
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >From 13texan-return-599-david_223 Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
> >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
> >MHotMailB995E4FE003AD82197BBCF8A29922036118; Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
> >Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
> >04:15:49 -0000
> >Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
> >X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
> >X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
> >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
> >Received: (qmail 15676 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 03:15:48
-0000
> >Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.35) by qg.egroups.com
with
> >SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 03:15:48 -0000
> >Received: from SNEADSTER@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com
(mail_out_v22.4.) id
> >aIMVxYd5__ (3963) for <13texan@egroups.com>; Tue, 31 Aug 1999
23:15:43
> >-0400 (EDT)
> >Message-ID: 
> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10
> >
> >In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >gormanh@home.com
> >writes:
> >
> ><< David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis?
Were
> >they also
> >  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
> >
> >Herb,
> >     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It
wasn't
> >"their"
> >own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host
country
> >they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany
even
> >those in that country.....
> >Michael Snead
>
>
> Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933;
not the
> other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to
allow the
> Jews to keep their children with them in prison...Can you imagine how
the
> Jews would be screaming now, if Herr Hitler had ripped the little
Jewish
> babies out of their mother's arms?.....Some people are so hard to
please,
> Michael.

You've mangled the facts, unfortunately. First, German Jews as a group
made no declaration at all. You are referring to the announcement by
the World Jewish Congress that it would support the democracies in the
imminent war. Nazi apologists have labled this a declaration of war in
an attempt to fabricated some excuse for the Nazi treatment of Jews.
The World Jewish Congess did not speak for all Jews, and it did not
declare war. Nations with governmental powers and standing armies
declare and wage war and European Jews had neither.

You've also got the year wrong. The announcement was made in 1939.
During the years prior to this Jews were removed from many professions,
property confiscated, beaten, killed and their businesses confiscated.
The passage of the Nuremberg laws in 1935, stripping Jews of
citizenship among other things, and the widespread destruction of
Jewish businesses and Temples during Kristallnacht, highlighted the
years of repression leading up to the brink of war. So the
pronouncement by the World Jewish Congress was a response to many years
of outright repression of Jews by the Nazis, not the other way around.

These actions against Jews in the 1930's were mere prelude to the
deadly Final Solution attempted beginning in 1941.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:24:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >
> >David Griffin wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=597
> >
> > >
> > > I believe Mr. Snead asked you what what religion you adheared
> >to....did I
> > > miss your answer?
> >
> >You did not.
> >
> >
> >...your tone is defineately Jewish...which would account
> > > for your support of His enemies.
> >
> >Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
> >are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> You're ranting, Philip :)

Nope, a proper assessment of the situation.

Philip Mathews
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:25:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >Phil
> >
> >How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
> >body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?
> >I do ! I was once offered the opportunity to attend a school
> >to learn the art of cremation for a hospital where I worked.
> >
> >This is my last message to this list... God Bless and Keep
> >His Sheep untill the time we all meet in His Kindom .
> >
> >Charles
> >
>
> Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with
"Herb
> Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of
most of
> the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.

Ah, so you think Jews are trash?

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:00:09 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil,
    At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so with the
1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course take 60%
longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would take 12
minutes 48 seconds. Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the breast)
in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12 minutes 48
seconds.
    Without stopping for cleanup of the human and coal ashes it would take
534 burn days to accomplish that feat. No aerial photographs were taken with
billows of black smoke pouring from the smoke stacks taken by allied forces.
[Why would the allied forces touch up photos to eliminate the smoke, if
anything they would have added smoke to make their case strong in the
Nuremberg kangaroo courts]. There would have been tons of ash from both human
and coal. Also we all know that Jews don't burn well, i.e. Shadrach Meshach
and Abednego.
Michael Snead
14-88

In a message dated 9/1/99 8:31:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The crematory
 ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
 noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
 various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
 extensive. >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:05:10 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil,
    It's is real common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions of those
who seek a reason to vindicate the Jews.

Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:18:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Sneed wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=668
> Phil,
>     At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so
with the
> 1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course
take 60%
> longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would
take 12
> minutes 48 seconds.

You've made an erroneous assumption. I was asked a temperature for
cremation. Approx. 1500 is the minimum temperature target, the ovens at
Auschwitz ran much hotter. But this is irrlevant since your following
assumptions are also in error.

 Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
> 600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the
breast)
> in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12
minutes 48
> seconds.

Actually based on testimony and the operating manual of the
manufacturer, the time was about twice this long at Auschwitz. But you
assume individual body cremations, such as you would find in a
commercial crematory. The Nazis put 2, 3 and occasionally more bodies
into a retort at a single time.  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
in full operation.  Try the math with that data!

>     Without stopping for cleanup of the human and coal ashes it would
take
> 534 burn days to accomplish that feat.

Incorrect assumptions, as noted above. By the way, they didn't use coal.

 No aerial photographs were taken with
> billows of black smoke pouring from the smoke stacks taken by allied
forces.

There are allied photographs ( a few) for only Auschwitz-Birkenau
during operation, so your contention is incorrect. Even for A-B there
are only a few photos taken over a few days. Your point is meaningless
in any event, no one denies the existence of crematory ovens at Nazi
camps.


> [Why would the allied forces touch up photos to eliminate the smoke,
if
> anything they would have added smoke to make their case strong in the
> Nuremberg kangaroo courts].

You've just answered your silly, and unsupported conspiracy theory.
They didn't. The trials involving the activities at the individual
camps are seperate from Nuremberg, which was not a kangaroo court.

> There would have been tons of ash from both human
> and coal.

Ash was buried, scattered in fields, and dissolved in the water of
lakes, ponds and at Auschwitz, the Vistula. Not a difficult process, as
the Nazi perpetrators told us.

 Also we all know that Jews don't burn well, i.e. Shadrach Meshach
> and Abednego.

Neither do your cremation theories!

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14-88
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/1/99 8:31:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The
crematory
>  ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
>  noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
>  various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
>  extensive. >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:43:48 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
    Your rhetoric is amusing.  When Charles wrote,"Jews killed over 60
million WHITE Christians during the Russian revolution. It is also a
historical fact!" You and I both know that he meant that they were of the
Christian persuasion. Now I have given you the title of this book once and
here it is again. THE WOLF OF THE KREMLIN written by the the nephew of Lazar
M. Kaganovich, Stuart Kahan. This murdering Jew, Kaganovich was responsible
for the death of 20 million Russians and even tells about it in the book.
Lenin was a Jew and Stalin was married to a Jew twice! His third wife was the
sister of Lazar M. Kaganovich. Trotsky was a Jew and the leaders of the
Bolshevik Revolution were all Jews. If you want proof start your research I
do not care to waste much time with you.

> >>
Philip wrote:
 >How do you know they were all Christians?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:06:15 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
    I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT PLAINLY
HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY. DATED: FRIDAY MARCH
26, 1933!  I HAVE THE BOOK ,  AMERICA FACES THE NEXT WAR BY JEW FRANK H.
SIMONDS.
Michael Snead
14/88

In a message dated 9/1/99 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< The World Jewish Congess did not speak for all Jews, and it did not
 declare war. Nations with governmental powers and standing armies
 declare and wage war and European Jews had neither.
  >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:12:57 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/1/99 2:21:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<<  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
 in full operation.  Try the math with that data!
  >>
I won't have to try the math for the simple fact that the coal was not
availabe for the burns and nor was the rail system always intact for the
Barbecuing meat and fuel. highly impossible. The Jews have in my life time
tried to stroke the pity pockets of the masses and it is about to come to an
abrupt halt.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:27:54 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael,

Do like me and just don't respond to Philip. It is clear to
see that, it does not matter to him how many whites or Christians
died at the hands of the jews in past or present history for to
him anyone other that a jew is just goy [cattle]. He can't defend
the jew for his evil acts, can't prove any jews are related to
Israel of the bible or that the jews don't control world banks
and world goverments.

We on the other hand know these facts because they are written and
recorded in history books printed by the jews themseleves. I like
only one thing about jews, that being they have been unable to
hide any of the thing they have done in all history they like to
recordes it so very well for us to read as though they are proud
of it and fly it in our faces because the goy sleep for now.

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Subject: [13texan] Clinton and WWIII
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:33:10 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Subject:        NewsMax.com: Bill Clinton's "Third Term"
        Date:    Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:48:51 -0600
       From:    spiker 
    Reply-To:  texas_net@egroups.com
 Organization N/A

There are already three resolutions (all the same, but with different
numbers and various sponsors) to repeal the 22nd Amendment relating to
presidential term limitations.  All three bills have been referred to
the House
Committee on the Judiciary, and subsequently the Subcommittee on the
Constitution.

H.J. Res. 17 (introduced 1/6/99)
sponsors: Rep. Serrano, Jose
 Rep. Shays, Christopher

H.J. Res. 24 (introduced 2/28/99)
sponsors: Rep. Frank, Barney

H.J. Res. 38 (introduced 3/11/99)
sponsors: Rep. Hoyer, Steny H.
 Rep Hyde, Henry J.
 Rep Frank, Barney
 Rep Berman, Howard L,
 Rep Sensenbrenner, James, Jr.
 Rep Sabo, Martin Olav
 Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr.
 Rep Shays, Christopher

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=1999/8/29/171120

------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Inside Cover
   Bill Clinton's "Third Term"

      With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

         For the story behind the story...

  Sunday August 29, 6:03 PM

  Bill Clinton's "Third Term"

  Sean David Morton is a futurologist. He says he can predict the
  future.

  Morton, no doubt, has many friends in Hollywood that like such
  new age stuff. A NewsMax reader sent us a copy of Morton's The
  Delphi Associates Newsletter. The following caught Inside
  Cover's eye:

  "I have now heard confirmation from three different sources who
  are very close to the Clintons that Bill has no intention of
  leaving the White House! At first I thought it was just
  right-wing paranoia. But a powerful woman friend of mine in
  entertainment (who must remain nameless!), who is a friend of
  Hillary's 'special friends,' was at the White House recently for
  a holiday. She said that Clinton spoke openly about finding a
  way to circumvent the Congress and the Constitution and find a
  way to stay on for another term, or stay president indefinitely.
  Incredulously, she asked how he was going to swing this feat of
  magic, and she said he got the most chilling, evil, demonic look
  in his eye that she had ever seen come from a human being, and
  he said, 'World War III.'"

  "This same story I heard from my lady friend, and another
  relation of the Clintons, was recently confirmed in an article
  by Ralph Forbes. It seems Clinton has been running this scheme
  past a number of his inner circle, and is actively seeking ways
  to implement his goal."

--

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:49:23 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles, my brother you are right. Ignoring. Deleting and read what willie
has for us to absorb.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:08:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=669
> Phil,
>     It's is real common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions
of those
> who seek a reason to vindicate the Jews.

I'm afraid you'll have to try that again in English.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:16:52 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=671
> Philip,
>     Your rhetoric is amusing.  When Charles wrote,"Jews killed over
60
> million WHITE Christians during the Russian revolution.

Is there a conclusion to this sentence fragment?

 It is also a
> historical fact!" You and I both know that he meant that they were of
the
> Christian persuasion.

What is the evidence that each of the 60 million was Christian?

Now I have given you the title of this book once and
> here it is again. THE WOLF OF THE KREMLIN written by the the nephew
of Lazar
> M. Kaganovich, Stuart Kahan.

A single book is hardly sufficient for a charge of this sort. In fact,
it is highly suspicious, because such an event should have dozens of
histories concerning it, written by qualified historians, not Jew
haters. So however many time you cite this one book, you will have
presented no convincing evidence.

 This murdering Jew, Kaganovich was responsible
> for the death of 20 million Russians and even tells about it in the
book.

So you claim.


> Lenin was a Jew and Stalin was married to a Jew twice!

Yeah, and his mistress was a Catholic, I guess that means Catholics
killed 60 million Christians!

 His third wife was the
> sister of Lazar M. Kaganovich. Trotsky was a Jew and the leaders of
the
> Bolshevik Revolution were all Jews. If you want proof start your
research I
> do not care to waste much time with you.

Your not offering proof that Jews are responsible for the charge. Your
saying that  some Jews were involved in Communism, which did such and
such. Well, many other kinds of groups were involved as well. The vast
majority of Jews worldwide had nothing to do with Soviet Communism.
Your inability to understand this basic distinction stems from your
hatred of Jews and your mindless desire to find reasons, lacking a
factual basis though they may be, for your feelings.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:19 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

BTW...

Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:39:50 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=672
> Philip,
>     I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT
PLAINLY
> HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY. DATED: FRIDAY
MARCH
> 26, 1933!

No you don't. You're getting desperate now.

 I HAVE THE BOOK ,  AMERICA FACES THE NEXT WAR BY JEW FRANK H.
> SIMONDS.

I have lots of books.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:44 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles,
     As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to dust. No
one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
Michael Snead

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Subject: [13texan] 50 Jews
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:53:51 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead said:
Charles,
      As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to dust. No
one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
Michael Snead
~~~~~~~
Me: Michael, have you heard how you put 50 Jews in a Volkswagon? You put
them in the ashtray.

JM

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Subject: [13texan] "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:14:14 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil Mathews wrote:

Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.

Philip Mathews
~~~~~~~
Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list "anti-'Semitic,"
and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic blood
in him. In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the Germanus, or
germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after Assyrian
captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans. That means the Jews'
war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic, and God's curse
of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites. It's Shemite
anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they change
history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like nosey
little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little perverts.
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Edom, Quote
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:43:51 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I said:

The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias
state, "Edom is in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no
link to this scripture. It was also Rabbi Stephen Wise who said that
Communism is Jewish. Of course, telling the truth is hate, but truth is
always hate to those who hate the truth.
~~~~~~~
Philip Mathews:
I don't suppose you have a citation for Rabbi Wise making that
statement? And saying hateful things about Jews has nothing to do with
truth.
~~~~~~~
Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which says that
"Edom is modern Jewry?" Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and Judaism
were the same, so go do your own research for once.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: who/what shemite/semitic
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:49:49 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> Just like the myth of the 4.5 million jews being gassed
> was invented.

Ed, can you point us to a source which says 4.5 million Jews were gassed? I would
like to read it. The material I've seen is more like 3 - 3.5 million gassed, 1
million murdered by the Einsatzgruppen, and another million or more dying from
other causes. Where did you find this figure?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: who's minding the list !
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:52:48 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> phil
>
> I don't have control over this list... but if it were
> mine I would have already blocked and removed your
> address from it :)

That's the classic fascist response to unwelcome realities... if you are
uncomfortable with what some people say, why censor them!

I guess that is ok for some people...me, I prefer polite conversation, but
if it works for you, go for it. I suppose it is a lot easier than dealing
with reality.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:59:05 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>        Let's just say for the sake of this Holohoax argument that The Nazis
> did kill 6 million Jews.....No let's give them ( those who even give a hoot)
> a benefit of a doubt and make it 15 million Jews.

Let's not, Michael. The figure 15 million is, and always has been, utter nonsense
- and I've yet to see a single credible source to support it, so let's stick with
6 million.

>     Now let's go back to Friday, March 26, 1933, The World Jewish Congress
> declared war on Germany and demanded a world wide ban on German product. That
> group alone bears a heavy responsibility on the deaths of  the Holohoax.

Oh, I love it when the "It was your fault you got murdered" routine comes out...
blaming the victims - an absolute classic, Michael! I guess what you are saying
is that if I ask my friends not to buy your products, you then have the right to
murder me. That works for you? Interesting.

Hey, Michael, how many divisions were there in the World Jewish Congress military
machine? Can you tell us that, or, say, how many ships they had in their navy?

While you're at it, Michael, perhaps you could explain *why* Jews were calling
for a boycott of German products... you (inadvertantly, I'm sure!) left that part
out...

> For six years these sick bastards exacerbated every national grievance
> and paranoia. They used their great financial power. They ran inflammatory
> articles about Germany. They used their powerful political and media
> influence to agitate for war and to feed the fires of hate, a fire still
> stroked by the media almost 60 years after the fact.

And this is all you need to start murdering them, is that right, Michael? Tell
me, Michael, was there some reason the world's Jews were upset with the Nazis?

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Subject: [13texan] "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:59:57 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the fostering of
hate and intolerance.

Philip Mathews
~~~~~~~
Me: I think this is fun with little Philip. He has been squirming like a
little worm ever since he threatened Ed Kadach and said his wife would "get
ripped."
    Little Philip talks about my Aryan brothers and sisters as fostering
"hate and intolerance." Now, let's take the first part, "hate." Telling the
truth to pore little Philip is "hate," unless he's saying that the Germans
gassed 6 million of his brethren. To say it didn't happened is also "denial"
as if it was ever a fact to begin with. "Intolerance" is another little gem
of the Jew. While we are to "resist" the devil and flee from him, little
Philip tells us to "tolerate." But to "tolerate" means to let all kinds of
bad things in which is the point of little Philip's diatribe. We are to
"tolerate" homosexuals which the Jew promotes as normal because so many of
them are sexual deviants themselves. Their own Talmud says it's okay to have
sex with a 3-year-old child. Philip would regard that as "tolerance," of
course, because he denies it's in the Talmud although so many of us here
have read that degenerate filth for ourselves.
    It's no where in scripture anywhere to tolerate, and it is the
anti-thesis of what Christ and St. Paul taught to "resist." So, the
resistance is right, and they're more right for going underground and doing
their work which bothers little Philip that such a thing really exists. So,
in desperation, the Jew cries for all kinds of "hate" crimes legislation as
if that will do a thing to stop the underground from doing their work like
all of the Eric's out there.
    One last point: "political correctness" and "tolerance" are the
opposites of each other. One cannot preach "political correctness" and
"tolerance" in the same breath because they are diametrically opposed to one
another. To demand "political correctness" is simply not "tolerant" of
little Philip. Boo-Hoo.
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:01:54 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
> writes:
>
> << David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis? Were
> they also
>  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
>
> Herb,
>     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It wasn't
> "their" own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host
> country
> they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany even
> those in that country.....

So, if I may clarify your position, Michael.... would it be accurate to say that
you justify the murder of an infant-at-breast, in Latvia, for instance, because
Germany wasn't "their country to begin with?" Is that about right?

It was ok, in your mind, to murder 3 million Polish Jews because Western Jews
were boycotting bratwurst?

Interesting...

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:03:37 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> Mr. Mathews it may intrest you to know that, Russian
> Jews killed over 60 million WHITE Christians during
> the Russian revolution. It is also a historical fact!

I don't think so, Charles, but I could be wrong. Where can I find history
books that use this figure? (Personally, I think 20-25 million is about right,
but it was Stalin that ordered the famine, and he wasn't a Jew, but hey, who's
counting?)

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gassing
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:05:19 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> >The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe is considered an authority on
> >this issue (Dimensions of the Holocaust With Emphasis on Gassing) in
> >Germany, and has been used as a source of information on the Holocaust
> >in various trials of Nazi war criminals there.

> Keren, just another member of Nizkook. Real last name is Kerensky- a
> Zionist jew.

So, Ed, you have nothing to say about Germany's leading historical
institute's findings? After all, they have absolutely nothing to do with
Keren - he just wrote 'em a letter, right? I was hoping you'd want to talk
about what *they* had to say... I guess not.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:07:03 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Herbie,
>           1933 comes long before 1941 and like I said, I feel sorry for no
> one who self-inflicts anything upon themselves.

Well, I'm glad to see that you aren't denying it any longer. That's progress,
isn't it?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:09:24 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> You know Herb, I'd pay attention to Michael here. From what I've read of you
> I believe that there is hope for you. Seek out and research all the facts of
> this issue before you start looking only to Nizkor for all your answers.
> They have their agenda in place and I know it to be one of deception, the
> site is full of contradictions.

It archives thousands upon thousands of documents - of course there are
contradictions. But the material I've seen there is very well documented, so I
can always go the library and confirm what they're claiming, and make up my own
mind. Their agenda doesn't interest me at all, any more than yours does. Everyone
has one, Ed.

I prefer concerntrating on the FACTS, whatever they may be.  Try it some time.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:13:32 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933; not the
> other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to allow the

How many bombers were there in this "German Jews" military, David? How many
fighter aircraft did they have, that they had poor Fat Hermann worried?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:16:42 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>     At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so with the
> 1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course take 60%
> longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would take 12
> minutes 48 seconds. Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
> 600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the breast)
> in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12 minutes 48
> seconds.

For concise information about the process, see
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria. If the 600,000 you refer
to are the Belzec victims, then crematoria data is not relevant, since most of
those bodies were burned in pits. As we now know, there are thick layers of
blackened human fat and ash in many of these pits, confirming the means of
disposal beyond any doubt whatsoever.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:26 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>     I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT PLAINLY
> HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY.

I have it, too, Michael... one of the interesting things you've forgotten to
mention, of course, is this text:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

"A strange and unfortunate sequel has emerged from the stories of German
Jew-baiting.
"The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare an economic and
financial war on Germany.
"Hirtherto the cry has gone up: 'Germany is persecuting the Jews.' If the present
plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be: 'The Jews are persecuting
Germany.'

Prophetic, weren't they, Michael? I am so glad that you brought it up! Here's the
whole article, as found at
http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

Daily Express. London, March 24, 1933, pp. 1-2.

  J U D E A   D E C L A R E S   W A R   O N   G E R M A N Y

  [A composite photo with Hitler before a presumably Jewish court]

  JEWS OF ALL THE WORLD UNITE

  BOYCOTT OF GERMAN GOODS

  MASS DEMONSTRATIONS

  "Daily Express" Special Political Correspondent.

  A strange and unforeseen sequel has emerged from the stories of
  German Jew-baiting.

  The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
  an economic and financial war on Germany.

  Hitherto the cry has gone up: "Germany is persecuting the Jews."
  If the present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be:
  "The Jews are persecuting Germany."

    All Israel is rising in wrath against the Nazi onslaught on
    the Jews. Adolf Hitler, swept into power by an appeal of
    elemental patriotism, is making history of a kind he least
    expected. Thinking to unite only the German nation to race
    consciousness, he has roused the whole Jewish people to
    national renascence.

  The appearance of the Swastika symbol of a new Germany has
  called forth the Lion of Judah, the old battle symbol of
  Jewish defiance.

  Fourteen million Jews, dispersed throughout the world, have
  banded together as one man to declare war on the German
  persecutors of their co-religionists. Sectional differences
  and antagonisms

  [strip-shaped drawing with alternating swastikas and lions]

  have been submerged in one common aim - to stand by the
  600,000 Jews of Germany who are terrorised by Hitlerite
  anti-Semitism and to compel Fascist Germany to end its
  campaign of violence and suppression directed against its
  Jewish minority.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  P l a n s   F o r   A c t i o n   M a t u r i n g

                      I n   E u r o p e   A n d   A m e r i c a
--------------------------------------------------------------------

  World Jewry has made up its mind not to rest quiescent in
  face of this revival of medieval Jew-baiting.

  Germany may be called on to pay a heavy price for Hitler's
  antagonism to the Jews. She is faced with an international
  boycott in commerce, finance, and industry.

  The Jewish merchant prince is leaving his counting-house,
  the banker his board-room, the shopkeeper his store, and
  the pedlar his humble barrow, to join together in what has
  become a holy war to combat the Hitlerite enemies of the Jew.

  Plans for concerted Jewish action are being matured in Europe
  and America to strike back in reprisal at Hitlerite Germany.

  In London, New York, Paris, and Warsaw Jewish merchants are
  waiting for a commercial crusade.

  Resolutions are being taken throughout the Jewish business

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  B R I T I S H   J E W S   P R O T E S T
        A T   N A Z I   T A C T I C S

  MERCHANTS AND FINANCIERS RALLY TO MOVEMENT

  GERMAN LINERS AFFECTED?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

  world to sever trade relations with Germany.

  Large numbers of merchants in London have resolved to stop
  buying German goods, even at the cost of suffering heavy loss.

  A meeting of the Jewish textile trade in London has been called
  for Monday to consider the situation and to determine what steps
  should be taken.

  Germany is a heavy borrower in foreign money markets, where
  Jewish influence is considerable. Continued anti-Semitism in
  Germany is likely to react seriously against her. A move is on
  foot on the part of Jewish financiers to exert pressure to force
  anti-Jewish action to stop.

  The Organisation of Jewish Youth in Britain are organizing
  demonstrations in London and the provinces during the weekend.

  The Board of Deputies of British Jews, representing the entire
  Jewish community of Great Britain, are meeting in special
  session on Sunday to discuss the German situation, and to decide
  on what action should be taken to counteract the attacks on
  their German fellow-Jews.

  World-wide preparations are being made to organise demonstrations
  of protest.

  EMBARGO IN POLAND

  A concerted boycott by Jewish buyers is likely to involve grave
  damage to the German export trade. Jewish merchants all over the
  world are large buyers of German manufactured goods, chiefly
  cotton goods, silks, toys, electrical fittings, and furniture.

  In Poland, the trade embargo on Germany is already in operation.
  In France, a proposed ban on German imports is being widely
  canvassed in Jewish circles.

  German Transatlantic shipping traffic is likewise threatened.
  The Bremen and the Europa, the German crack liners, may suffer
  heavily from a Jewish anti-German boycott. Jewish trans-ocean
  travellers form an important part of the patrons of these liners
  because of their extensive part in international trade. The loss
  of their patronage would be a heavy blow to Germany's Atlantic
  trade.

  In New York yesterday 10,000 Jewish ex-soldiers marched to the
  City Hall to hold a protest demonstration.

  Large crowds watched the men, some of whom wore old British
  uniforms, petition the mayor to support them in a boycott of
  German goods.

  Another petition was handed in at the British Consulate-General
  requesting that Palestine should receive refugees from Germany
  without restriction.

  Members of the American House of Representatives are introducing
  resolutions protesting against the anti-Jewish excesses in
  Germany. The American trade unions, representing 3,000,000
  workers, have also decided to join in the protest.

  A rabbinical decree in New York has made the next Monday a day
  of fasting and prayer over the Hitler campaign.

  Fasting will begin on Sunday at sunset and finish at sunset on
  Monday.

  All Jewish shops in New York will be closed on Monday during a
  parade.

  Apart from a monster meeting in Madison-square Garden, meetings
  are to be held in 300 American cities.

  Madison-square Garden will see the remarkable sight of Bishop
  Manning speaking from a Jewish platform appealing for an end of
  the Hitler "terror."

  DAY OF SERMONS

  It had been arranged to charge a shilling admission and 5 s.
  for box seats, but a public-spirited Jew, Frank Cohen, an
  insurance broker, gove [sic] a personal cheque for L 1,000 to
  cover all expenses, so admission will be free.

  Every rabbi in the city of New York has been placed under a
  sacred obligation by rabbinical decree to devote Saturday's
  sermon to the plight of Jews in Germany.

  Representative Jewish organisations in the European capitals
  are understood to be making representations to their various
  Governments to use influence with the Hitler Cabinet to induce
  it to call a halt in the oppression of the German Jews.

  The old and reunited people of Israel are rising with new
  and modern weapons to fight their age-old battle with their
  persecutors.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:22:40 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>Philip Mathews said:
> > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!

> > Philip Mathews
> > ~~~~~~~

Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family and
I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
alt.revisionism.

Subject:
                         NEW TELEPHONE NUMBERS FOR THE NAZI PIG
                         KADACH
                   Date:
                         1999/08/08
                   Author:
                         nazihunter 
                           Posting History

                    FRESH NUMBERS TO CONTACT THE NAZI PIG KADACH AND HIS
                    FAMILY.
                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL AND TELL THEM WHAT A SCUMBAG ED IS?

                    Ed Kadach
                    XXX St NW XXXX
                    Edmonton, AB T6H 2Z7 Phone: 780-XXX-XXXXX, : 780-XXX-XXXX

>I said:
>Willie, will you kindly unsubscribe this stupid bastard from off
>of this list? This psycho sounds like Jack the Ripper. Look at the threats
>they're making to Ed Kadach. For now, this pig slime hides behind the laws
>his ilk helped put into place in Canada, but I'm sure there will be more
>Eric's out there taking care of things their own way. The resistance is
>growing and underground, and it's only a matter of time before the evil
>empire goes down.
>~~~~~~~
>Mathews said:
>I've made no threats to Ed. He understands the reference.

Oh indeed I do and it has been duly noted as JM states.

>
>also:
>
>I made no threat. And the laws referred to are slander and libel, laws
>which all civilized nations have in one form or another. This has
>nothing to do with misguided hate laws. I suspect Ms. Zimmerman's
>actual problem rests in having her erroneous opinions exposed. So much
>for her supposed belief in free speech!
>~~~~~~~
>Me: You did too make a threat. Everyone saw it, and by now, the resistance
>has it.
>JM

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] "German Jew Baiting"/Herbie
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:33:25 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Nizkor liars said:
"A strange and unfortunate sequel has emerged from the stories of German
Jew-baiting. "The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
an economic and financial war on Germany.
"Hirtherto the cry has gone up: 'Germany is persecuting the Jews.' If the
present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be: 'The Jews are
persecuting Germany.'
~~~~~~~
Herb:
Prophetic, weren't they, Michael? I am so glad that you brought it up!
Here's the whole article, as found at
http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

Daily Express. London, March 24, 1933, pp. 1-2.

   J U D E A   D E C L A R E S   W A R   O N   G E R M A N Y

   [A composite photo with Hitler before a presumably Jewish court]

   JEWS OF ALL THE WORLD UNITE

   BOYCOTT OF GERMAN GOODS

   MASS DEMONSTRATIONS

   "Daily Express" Special Political Correspondent.

   A strange and unforeseen sequel has emerged from the stories of
   German Jew-baiting.

   The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
   an economic and financial war on Germany.

   Hitherto the cry has gone up: "Germany is persecuting the Jews."
   If the present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be:
   "The Jews are persecuting Germany."
~~~~~~~
Me: As usual, this is what Jews do. They threaten with economic boycotts to
get their little hissy fits put into place. Then they claim they were, are,
or will be persecuted. They make the other guy the aggressor while it is
themselves. An interesting fact brought out by Hans Schmidt who served in
the German Waffen SS was that Jewish businesses were still in the German
phone books in 1941. So much for "German" persecution. Herbie, by the way,
is just a slug posing as a "misled" Gentile boy. He's just another Zionist.
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:26:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>
>Philip Mathews

Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.

>> Forum: alt.revisionism
                         >> Thread: GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
                           >> Message 1176 of 1282


                   Subject:
                          GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
                   Date:
                          1998/09/10
                   Author:
                          NAZIHUNTER 
                            Posting History

                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL TO THE ANTI-SEMITIC PIG ED KADACH?

                    ED KADACH
                    XXXX-XXX ST NW
                    EDMONTON, ALBERTA
                    T6H 2Z7


                    403-XXX-XXXXX


                    IF HE IS NOT HOME, LET HIS WIFE KNOW WHAT A PIECE OF WORK
                    HER HUSBAND IS.

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 01:49:34 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

20 million or 60 million , the poing be does it really matter
Herb ? Jews murdered more Christians than the Nazi's murdered
Jews and that was the point I was making.

Death is wrong it is always bad no matter who is killed! But I
choose life and it is not time to move away from the past and
into the now. Who is stealing from the sick and elderly today
who creates intrest and takes for the poor what little they have
so that they are totally dependent upon the socialist goverment?

I am not a Nazi, I have never hurt or mistreated anyone and I
refuse to take the blame for Nazi's because I am Christian Identity
just as I have never owned slaves and refuse white guilt!

If someone wants to call me what ever they will as long as they
can prove it in a court of law that is their choice in life.
I am free to think in American and express my opinions. I can legally

Some people are upset because I believe and I can prove I am an
Israelite. I can not only prove it by race, but by blood and name
as well! I can also LOVE or HATE and BELIEVE as I wish about anything
this is still American and I still have that right.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:41:20 -0500
From: "Teacher of YHVH" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
Organization: Christian Soldiers
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

I just subscribed to it.  Thanks, I was really getting tired of the other
list.
Sherry

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles 
To: <13texan@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: [13texan] A new list

> I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>
> anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
> will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
> anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
> opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
> vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>
> Security:
>
> No arcives will be made public!
> No shared files directoty!
> No Public files directory!
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
> Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> Charles
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:47:39 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:27:54 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-649-david_223 Wed Sep 01 12:27:37 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailB996C881013ED82197F0CF8A29921D7E199; Wed Sep 01 12:27:37 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
>20:27:31 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 18037 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 19:27:30 -0000
>Received: from mail2.bna.bellsouth.net (205.152.80.14) by qg.egroups.com
>with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 19:27:30 -0000
>Received: from default (host-209-214-40-81.cha.bellsouth.net
>[209.214.40.81]) by mail2.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.3a/8.9.3) with SMTP id
>PAA23892 for <13texan@egroups.com>; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:18:40 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <37CD7E39.3186@bellsouth.net>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>References: <6c093215.24fecde4@aol.com>
>
>Michael,
>
>Do like me and just don't respond to Philip. It is clear to
>see that, it does not matter to him how many whites or Christians
>died at the hands of the jews in past or present history for to
>him anyone other that a jew is just goy [cattle]. He can't defend
>the jew for his evil acts, can't prove any jews are related to
>Israel of the bible or that the jews don't control world banks
>and world goverments.
>
>We on the other hand know these facts because they are written and
>recorded in history books printed by the jews themseleves. I like
>only one thing about jews, that being they have been unable to
>hide any of the thing they have done in all history they like to
>recordes it so very well for us to read as though they are proud
>of it and fly it in our faces because the goy sleep for now.

Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
the mind of Christ as we do.

Any posts with Herb Gorman or philnancy should be deleted
immediately....it's just Jewish trash...there is nothing in there to help a
Christian; and nothing in there that praises the name of Jesus....so why
open it??

Just my 2 cents worth.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:53:52 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:19 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-654-david_223=hotmail.com@returns.egroups.com Wed Sep
>1 14:25:51 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
>22:20:59 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 1149 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 21:20:57 -0000
>Received: from mail0.bna.bellsouth.net (205.152.80.12) by qh.egroups.com
>with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 21:20:57 -0000
>Received: from default (host-209-214-40-79.cha.bellsouth.net
>[209.214.40.79]) by mail0.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.3a/8.9.3) with SMTP id
>RAA06100 for <13texan@egroups.com>; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:23 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <37CD98CF.7B@bellsouth.net>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>References: 
>
>BTW...
>
>Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
>of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
>gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
>
>Charles

Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated that
many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish lies....It
would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number of
bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't add
up.

David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:04:14 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] "Anti-Shemitic"
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:14:14 PDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-658-david_223 Wed Sep 01 16:15:05 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailB996FE66010DD820F39ECF8A2992353912; Wed Sep 01 16:15:05 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 1999
>00:14:17 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 5823 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 23:14:15 -0000
>Received: from f325.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (207.82.251.213) by
>qg.egroups.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 23:14:15 -0000
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>Message-ID: <19990901231415.90909.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Received: from 208.25.190.147 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep
>1999 16:14:14 PDT
>X-Originating-IP: [208.25.190.147]
>
>Phil Mathews wrote:
>
>Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
>are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
>Philip Mathews
>~~~~~~~
>Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list "anti-'Semitic,"
>and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic blood
>in him. In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
>makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the Germanus, or
>germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after Assyrian
>captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans. That means the
>Jews'
>war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic, and God's curse
>of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites. It's Shemite
>anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they change
>history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like nosey
>little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little perverts.
>JM

Very true, JM.....very true....we are the semites, not the Jews....they are
anti-Christ; contrary to all men, as the apostle Paul stated....they want to
claim our birthright, as Esau wanted Jacob's birthright, and as Satan wanted
Adam's birthright....but they can't have it.
The Anglo-Saxon people are true Israel....Jews are our enemies; they hate
true Israel, and they hate the name of Jesus....and they would hang the
Blessed Savior from the cross again, if they only could.

And who but a pervert would state that it is ok to marry a 3 year old
girl?....only a perverted Satanic mind would state such a thing....and this
is mild in comparison to the other perverted things in their dirty talmud.

I think Phil was referring to me in the statement he made about Christ
disavowing me....well, I take that as a badge of honor....for the servant is
not above his Master...and because they hate Jesus; they should hate us
also.

Hail Jesus' Victory
David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE
     PLEASE READ.
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:14:05 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

WILLIE,
      Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see these
people causing the problems removed. You are I know, well versed in the
word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we as
the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who would
detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.

Your Brother,
Ramon Sparks

At 09:35 PM 8/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
>We would appriciate it if you did, Willie.
>Sherry & Oscar
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ed Kadach 
>To: <13texan@egroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 8:26 PM
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
>
>
>> At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>> >You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>> >
>> >Philip Mathews
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.
>>
>>
>> >> Forum: alt.revisionism
>>                          >> Thread: GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
>>                            >> Message 1176 of 1282
>>
>>
>>                    Subject:
>>                           GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
>>                    Date:
>>                           1998/09/10
>>                    Author:
>>                           NAZIHUNTER 
>>                             Posting History
>>
>>
>>                     WHY NOT GIVE A CALL TO THE ANTI-SEMITIC PIG ED KADACH?
>>
>>                     ED KADACH
>>                     XXXX-XXX ST NW
>>                     EDMONTON, ALBERTA
>>                     T6H 2Z7
>>
>>
>>                     403-XXX-XXXXX
>>
>>
>>                     IF HE IS NOT HOME, LET HIS WIFE KNOW WHAT A PIECE OF
>WORK
>>                     HER HUSBAND IS.
>>
>>
>> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
>> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
>> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
>> ---Schopenhauer
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:27:20 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=673
> In a message dated 9/1/99 2:21:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> <<  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
>  in full operation.  Try the math with that data!
>   >>
> I won't have to try the math for the simple fact that the coal was
not
> availabe for the burns and nor was the rail system always intact for
the
> Barbecuing meat and fuel. highly impossible.

If you wish to deal in simple facts, you should start with facts. Coal
was not used as the fuel for the ovens. The rail lines were intact in
the areas of the death camps right up until the end of the war,
servicing camps which had been located near major rail spurs. The
transport records are extant recording the shipment of Jews from all
over Europe to the various camps.

Now try your math problem again.

The Jews have in my life time
> tried to stroke the pity pockets of the masses and it is about to
come to an
> abrupt halt.

False bravado and mindless antisemitism. In the end, that's what it
always comes down to with someone like you.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:33:01 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=679
> BTW...
>
> Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
> of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
> gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
>
> Charles

You're comparing apple and oranges. Your scenario is for a commercial
crematory, incinerating a single body at a time, usually with coffin,
and usually incinerating the body down to a fine white ash suitable for
presentation to family. That hardly compares to the multiple and
continuous feeding system utilized by the Nazis, where coffins were not
used and the comingling of ashes was hardly a concern. The fuel source
is immaterial.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:35:06 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=681
> Charles,
>      As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to
dust. No
> one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
> Michael Snead

Thank you for more evidence of your hateful antisemitsm. I note that
the "Christians" in the group say nothing about your decidedly
anti-Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: 50 Jews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:36:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=682
> Michael Snead said:
> Charles,
>       As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to
dust. No
> one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
> Michael Snead
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Michael, have you heard how you put 50 Jews in a Volkswagon? You
put
> them in the ashtray.
>
> JM

Another fine example of Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:18:02 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=683
> Phil Mathews wrote:
>
> Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
> are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
> Philip Mathews
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list
"anti-'Semitic,"
> and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic
blood
> in him.

Which is wholly irrelevant. That you think this is hilarious is
interesting.

In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
> makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the
Germanus, or
> germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after
Assyrian
> captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans.

More irrelevancies.  Do you always seek to justify antisemitism with
such nonsense?

 That means the Jews'
> war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic,

There was no Jewish war against Germany. Do you really expect people to
accept such nonsense? Do you know what war is?

 and God's curse
> of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites.

Ah, now you're blaming God for the Holocaust?

It's Shemite
> anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they
change
> history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like
nosey
> little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little
perverts.

And the antisemite emerges in full flower, for all to see. Nice
Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:20:32 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=684
> I said:
>
> The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias
> state, "Edom is in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no
> link to this scripture. It was also Rabbi Stephen Wise who said that
> Communism is Jewish. Of course, telling the truth is hate, but truth
is
> always hate to those who hate the truth.
> ~~~~~~~
> Philip Mathews:
> I don't suppose you have a citation for Rabbi Wise making that
> statement? And saying hateful things about Jews has nothing to do with
> truth.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which
says that
> "Edom is modern Jewry?"

It's not my encyclopedia.

 Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
> your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and
Judaism
> were the same, so go do your own research for once.
> JM

I note you've avoided anwering the question. Do you have a citation for
Rabbi Wise saying what you allege, or have you simply made it up and
your mindless desire to smear Jews.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] The List
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:32:15 -0700
From: "Andy" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to be
taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
Vaya Con Dios, Andy

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:43:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=687
> Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
> worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
fostering of
> hate and intolerance.
>
> Philip Mathews
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I think this is fun with little Philip.

I'll bet you do. Hateful emoting seems to be your hobby.

 He has been squirming like a
> little worm ever since he threatened Ed Kadach and said his wife
would "get
> ripped."

You could have worked in the Nazi propoganda department.

>     Little Philip talks about my Aryan brothers and sisters as
fostering
> "hate and intolerance."

The evidence for you is manifest and on display almost daily.

 Now, let's take the first part, "hate." Telling the
> truth to pore little Philip is "hate," unless he's saying that the
Germans
> gassed 6 million of his brethren.

Hateful expressions don't have to be false, but often are with
antisemites, since the true facts don't offer enough opportunity to
vent the hatred.

To say it didn't happened is also "denial"
> as if it was ever a fact to begin with.

To deny an established fact of history is denial. Nothing difficult
there.

"Intolerance" is another little gem
> of the Jew. While we are to "resist" the devil and flee from him,
little
> Philip tells us to "tolerate."

I merely suggest you demonstrate some of the religious principles you
claim to follow.

 But to "tolerate" means to let all kinds of
> bad things in which is the point of little Philip's diatribe.

A rather strange interpretation. You are confusing the judgment to be
made about individuals based upon their character and conduct with the
mindless condemnation of entire groups, as if entire groups of people
manifest "bad things" merely because of an accident of birth or
religion or ethnicity. Most people learn this distinction in grade
school, certainly in Sunday School.

 We are to
> "tolerate" homosexuals which the Jew promotes as normal because so
many of
> them are sexual deviants themselves.

You are flying off on a tangent which hasn't been mentioned. I wonder
why?

 Their own Talmud says it's okay to have
> sex with a 3-year-old child.

A blatant and ignorant mis-characterization. Typical.

 Philip would regard that as "tolerance," of
> course, because he denies it's in the Talmud although so many of us
here
> have read that degenerate filth for ourselves.

You would do well to try to do a better job of defining your own
bizarre brand of situational ethics rather than trying to speak for me.
Hating people because they are Jews, and retailing well known lies
about them is intolerant and against the any sane understanding of
Christian values. Your need to wander of into other subjects reveals
the bankruptcy of your position.

>     It's no where in scripture anywhere to tolerate, and it is the
> anti-thesis of what Christ and St. Paul taught to "resist."

Hating people because of what they are instead of what they do as
individuals is not "resisting".

 So, the
> resistance is right, and they're more right for going underground and
doing
> their work which bothers little Philip that such a thing really
exists. So,
> in desperation, the Jew cries for all kinds of "hate" crimes
legislation as
> if that will do a thing to stop the underground from doing their work
like
> all of the Eric's out there.

They are right to go underground if their objective is to hurt people
or deprive them of their rights based on some racist theory which
mainstream culture rightfully finds repugnant.

>     One last point: "political correctness" and "tolerance" are the
> opposites of each other. One cannot preach "political correctness"
and
> "tolerance" in the same breath because they are diametrically opposed
to one
> another. To demand "political correctness" is simply not "tolerant"
of
> little Philip. Boo-Hoo.

Your inability to discuss an issue without confusing concepts and
venting about unrelated subjects is revealing. Political correctness
and antisemitism are two different things. You've done nothing but
confirm your antisemitism and demonstrate a typically mechanical
response to the discussion. Hating Jews because they are Jews is wrong,
and violates Christian beliefs and Humanist traditions. You should be
more faithful to your faith.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:57:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >Philip Mathews said:
> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>
> > > Philip Mathews
> > > ~~~~~~~
>
> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
and
> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
> alt.revisionism.


Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I roundly
condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop such
activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:00:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=699
> At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.
>
>
Already addressed in earlier post.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:05:08 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=703

> >BTW...
> >
> >Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
> >of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
> >gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
> >
> >Charles
>
> Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated
that
> many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish
lies....It
> would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number
of
> bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
> nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't
add
> up.

And your denial is based on what, your simple denial? Why don't you
show us the math which doesn't add up? I think I know why.

Philip Mathews

>
> David
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:08:24 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon Sparks wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=705
> WILLIE,
>       Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see
these
> people causing the problems removed.

I see, disagreeing with your unsupported pronouncements on Jews and the
history of the Holocaust is a problem, eh.

You are I know, well versed in the
> word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
> mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we
as
> the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who
would
> detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.

Your own unwillingness to defend you views is the major hinderance your
movement faces.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:54:34 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy wrote:
>
> When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
> Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
> understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
> Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to be
> taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
> Vaya Con Dios, Andy

  Works for me!!!!

--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:03:47 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
them before me."

nuff said!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:24:23 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Willie,

I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
information about your subscribers from what I have read.

I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
and the one who made it should be removed from the list.

Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
untill I hear something from you on this matter.

BTW this message is being send both public and private.

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:25:37 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SWINE:
       No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other hand
refute truth . The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
SWINE... The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
messenger. We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
and you detract from the purpose we have been given. WE CHOOSE to not allow
you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established as
allowing you to succeed.

Ramon

At 07:08 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon Sparks wrote:
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=705
>> WILLIE,
>>       Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see
>these
>> people causing the problems removed.
>
>
>I see, disagreeing with your unsupported pronouncements on Jews and the
>history of the Holocaust is a problem, eh.
>
>
>You are I know, well versed in the
>> word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
>> mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we
>as
>> the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who
>would
>> detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.
>
>Your own unwillingness to defend you views is the major hinderance your
>movement faces.
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
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>
>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:31:27 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
about CI related topics can send me email to
my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
this over to a new list. I will set one up
if others are interested and we will weed out
the ones who cause trouble via members vote.

Charles
--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:35:27 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> them before me."
>
> nuff said!

Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their belonging
to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:40:26 -0500
From: Willie Martin 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: dogpatch@bellsouth.net
CC: 13texan@egroups.com

    Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
to do anything to delete it or anything else.

    I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get some
answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
repspond. I don't know what else to do.

    You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even access.
I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so mad
without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that I
can do about it.

    As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several have
dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

    Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite tribes.

    Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
what you are saying about personal information.

    It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.

    If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because like
I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members list,
or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.

    I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do anything
about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you. The
only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people some
information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics when
they begin.

       I remain Sincerely yours, In His Service, Willie Martin

Charles wrote:

> Willie,
>
> I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
> and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
> it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
> information about your subscribers from what I have read.
>
> I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
> now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
> more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
> and the one who made it should be removed from the list.
>
> Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
> untill I hear something from you on this matter.
>
> BTW this message is being send both public and private.
>
> Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:41:00 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> SWINE:
>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
hand
> refute truth .

Accept that you are unable to show that.

 >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> SWINE...

The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
scripture for their own ends.

 The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
> messenger.

But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?

 We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\

You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and because
you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is not
a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
any of God's other creatures.

 WE CHOOSE to not allow
> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established
as
> allowing you to succeed.

I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate you
generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:45:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=721
> Willie,
>
> I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
> and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
> it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
> information about your subscribers from what I have read.

>
> I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
> now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
> more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
> and the one who made it should be removed from the list.

What about your personal attacks, and hateful words? Are you immune, or
just blind to your own unChristian actions?

>
> Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
> untill I hear something from you on this matter.

This intolerance for other views is one reason why the views you
express will never enjoy a wider currency than your small group. The
lack of strength in your own convictions are displayed by your desire
to muzzle all who disagree with you.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] A new list
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:09:08 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.

anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.

Security:

No arcives will be made public!
No shared files directoty!
No Public files directory!

Community email addresses:
Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "German Jew Baiting"/Herbie
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:18:35 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman wrote:

> Nizkor liars said:

No, that is what the story on the front page of the Daily Express said. Please
try to get the attributions right, Ms. Zimmerman.

> Me: As usual, this is what Jews do. They threaten with economic boycotts to
> get their little hissy fits put into place. Then they claim they were, are,
> or will be persecuted.

It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government was *not*
persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?

That the raids on synagogues prior to the call for an economic response were not
"persecution?"

That the disenfranchisement of Jewish citizens prior to the call for an economic
response was not "persecution?"

What an interesting viewpoint...

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:20:03 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Willie Martin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=726
>     Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
> had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
> EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
> to do anything to delete it or anything else.
>
>     I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get
some
> answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
> subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
> repspond. I don't know what else to do.
>
>     You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even
access.
> I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so
mad
> without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
> sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that
I
> can do about it.

I think the more important question is why someone should be removed
from this list just because some members do not like to have their view
and prejudices challenged?  The description for this group is history
discussion. I've been trying to discuss history, but whenever the
subject gets beyond glib antisemitic allegations, people go into attack
mode and wish only to disparage Jews.

>
>     As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
> try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
> and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several
have
> dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

And are you as sensitive to having your views discussed as so many of
the other list members?  I am frankly amazed at the inability and
unwillingness of list participants to defend their views. The ultimate
defense, usually reached very quickly, is to blame Jews for everthing,
accuse an opponent of being Jewish and concluding from that assumption
in antisemitic fashion that that makes their views somehow irrelevant.
These same folks will deny their antisemitsm (except for a few) or that
they are hate filled in their beliefs. What Christian faith teaches
such hate?

>
>     Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
> do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
> Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite
tribes.
>
>     Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
> the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
> what you are saying about personal information.
>
>     It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
> at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.
>
>     If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
> started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because
like
> I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members
list,
> or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
> want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.
>
>     I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do
anything
> about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
> controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
> destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you.
The
> only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people
some
> information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
> recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
> enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
> therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics
when
> they begin.

I'm sure there must be a technical reason for this. I've never heard of
an email list being taken over. I hope it gets solved soon, and I hope
that you will opt for the free expression of ideas which are on topic
for this group.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:26:06 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> 20 million or 60 million , the poing be does it really matter
> Herb ? Jews murdered more Christians than the Nazi's murdered
> Jews and that was the point I was making.

Accuracy is important, particularly during this sort of acrimonious
discussion. It is easy to throw numbers around, and easier still if you
don't have to back up your claims with documentation.

I understand your point, and I agree with you - murder is murder. I would
not dream of trivializing the Stalinist terror any more than I would
trivialize the Holocaust. The difference, however, is that very few people
devote much time to claiming that Stalin did *not* cause the death of
millions, while a cohesive movement to deny the Nazi murder of Jews
obviously exists.

> Death is wrong it is always bad no matter who is killed! But I
> choose life and it is not time to move away from the past and
> into the now. Who is stealing from the sick and elderly today
> who creates intrest and takes for the poor what little they have
> so that they are totally dependent upon the socialist goverment?

That would be an intelligent thing to do, were it not for the presence of
people who appear to have devoted themselves to the hatred of Jews, and the
denial of the murders of the Jews. I do not believe that we should simply
ignore such moral bankruptcy when we observe it within our community. I
believe we should stand up and confront hatred wherever it may be found.

> I am not a Nazi, I have never hurt or mistreated anyone and I
> refuse to take the blame for Nazi's because I am Christian Identity
> just as I have never owned slaves and refuse white guilt!

I don't recall calling you a Nazi. Christian Identity, however, is openly
and happily in bed with modern nazis, and if you are not aware of this,
perhaps you should take a close look at such allegations, and the
associations commonly found among Identity leaders.

> If someone wants to call me what ever they will as long as they
> can prove it in a court of law that is their choice in life.
> I am free to think in American and express my opinions. I can legally

Of course you are free to express yourself - I would not argue that point at
all, beyond some obvious comments about libel, for instance, or inciting to
violence - that is, laws restricting speech which have been with us for
centuries.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:28:46 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
> discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
> to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
> less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
> our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
> the mind of Christ as we do.

Interesting - the "Group information" section says of this group:

"A History Discussion Group" ... which is why it seems strange that David does
not want to discuss history. I didn't see anything about religion in the
description, just history.

Curious.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:32:47 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: thelostsheep@onelist.com, 13texan@egroups.com

This will be my last message posted the this list
everyone who enjoys fellowship with willie can
subscribe onto the new list where he can have
control thelostsheep@onelist.com

I have unsubscribed to this list and will no longer
be getting mail from it.

May God Bless and Keep His Sheep Untill We Meet in His Kingdom

Charles
--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:33:09 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated that
> many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish lies....It
> would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number of
> bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
> nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't add
> up.

David, would you be kind enough to tell us how you determined that it would
take 35 years? I'd really like to see your source for this information.

It seems to me that modern technology has no bearing at all upon what the
Nazis did - modern technology is not designed to cremate thousands per day,
it's designed to cremate one body at a time. No comparison.

For some accurate data, consider
http://www3.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/furnace-capacity-analysis.html

"In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow, was
commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry out geological
tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the locations of incineration pits and
pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human
ashes, bones, and hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes
and the diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
Department of the Museum." (Franciszek Piper, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp, p. 179n).

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:34:34 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> And who but a pervert would state that it is ok to marry a 3 year old
> girl?....only a perverted Satanic mind would state such a thing....and this
> is mild in comparison to the other perverted things in their dirty talmud.

I can not find anything in Talmud that states that it is ok to marry a 3 year
old girl. Can you tell me exactly where to find this statement, David?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:13:30 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy,
    You are right. To delete them is the right thing to do. Even the Word
says not to cast your pearls before the swine....I would think that even
meant koshered swine.   Here is a little story that I want to share with
everyone on the list. Years ago I worked on some sound stages in  Hollywood
and two of my favorite sets was The Bionic Woman and the Hart to Hart sets.
As a young carpenter and eager to learn as much as possible I would ask a lot
of questions. I was telling the superintendent one day that after I finished
with the apprentice program I would like to go to Cal State Fullerton to
become a screen writer. As we spoke this elderly gentleman inched over to
where we were talking and it was obvious that he was eaves dropping.
    The boss and I were amused at this obvious action so  being as forward as
I am included him in the conversation. He revealed to us that he was one of
the writers and that he was by that day to observe. While we spoke he
informed us that he was Jewish and the boss who was from Australia shared
that with the old man and the old man looked at me and said," Where in the
south are you from?" (the accent gave it away) and I said," West
Virginia."...Jokingly he stepped back and said," You aren't of German decent
are you?" We all began to laugh. I informed him that I was of English decent
and we continued to speak for a couple more hours.
    When we wrapped up this pleasant little chat he patted me on the back and
said "Young man let me give you some advice. My father told me many years
ago,' son don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story."  We all
laughed as he walked away and we went back to work.
    Until this year when I read David Duke's book My Awakening did that old
man's statement hit me hard. It is funny but can you imagine the lives that
are ruined because of the lies of the Jewish controlled  media outlets? The
truths that are hidden by these trained deception artists?  I want to
apologize to the entire group for allowing the two manipulative snakes have
so much control. I shall continue to read and comment only on the things
pertaining to this list.
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:11:41 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=736
> Andy,
>     You are right. To delete them is the right thing to do. Even the
Word
> says not to cast your pearls before the swine....I would think that
even
> meant koshered swine.   Here is a little story that I want to share
with
> everyone on the list. Years ago I worked on some sound stages in
Hollywood
> and two of my favorite sets was The Bionic Woman and the Hart to Hart
sets.
> As a young carpenter and eager to learn as much as possible I would
ask a lot
> of questions. I was telling the superintendent one day that after I
finished
> with the apprentice program I would like to go to Cal State Fullerton
to
> become a screen writer. As we spoke this elderly gentleman inched
over to
> where we were talking and it was obvious that he was eaves dropping.
>     The boss and I were amused at this obvious action so  being as
forward as
> I am included him in the conversation. He revealed to us that he was
one of
> the writers and that he was by that day to observe. While we spoke he
> informed us that he was Jewish and the boss who was from Australia
shared
> that with the old man and the old man looked at me and said," Where
in the
> south are you from?" (the accent gave it away) and I said," West
> Virginia."...Jokingly he stepped back and said," You aren't of German
decent
> are you?" We all began to laugh. I informed him that I was of English
decent
> and we continued to speak for a couple more hours.
>     When we wrapped up this pleasant little chat he patted me on the
back and
> said "Young man let me give you some advice. My father told me many
years
> ago,' son don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story."  We
all
> laughed as he walked away and we went back to work.
>     Until this year when I read David Duke's book My Awakening did
that old
> man's statement hit me hard. It is funny but can you imagine the
lives that
> are ruined because of the lies of the Jewish controlled  media
outlets?

Oh, please, you can't be this thick! You are aware of the difference
between fiction and nonfiction writing.  The writer's innocuous
statement referred to writing fiction for the screen. And you and your
boss understood it perfectly, which is why you laughed. You knew he
wasn't referring to journalists making things up. That you feel the
need to smear Jews by so obviously distorting the man's meaning
probably results from the same animus which causes you to lie about
Jewish control of media outlets.

 The
> truths that are hidden by these trained deception artists?  I want to
> apologize to the entire group for allowing the two manipulative
snakes have
> so much control. I shall continue to read and comment only on the
things
> pertaining to this list.

The description of this list is the discussion of history, something
you are obviously loathe to do because we would then see who are the
deception artists.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Edom/Jews/Judah
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:15:34 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I had said:
The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias state, "Edom is
in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no link to this scripture.
===================
Bill Hoyt said:
Let us assume for a moment that the quote is true.  If that is the case,
then the statement that "Paul wrote that the Jews lost their covenant with
God" would be shown to be false, since Paul wrote of the Jews in his day (of
whom he was one, of the tribe of Benjamin - Rom 11:1).  If they were truly
Edomites, then they never had a covenant to lose.
~~~~~~~
Me: Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.
Jew is slang for Judean. There were 12 tribes, unless one counts the sons of
Joseph as 2 tribes and comes up with 13. Therefore, Israel is not Judah
alone, but Judah is one of the tribes. Also, the Israelites were not Jews.
The Hebrews were not Jews. Abraham was not a Jew, but a Hebrew. After
Assyrian captivity, Israel went to Arsareth, from II Esdras 13. Arsareth is
Germany. Most Jews of today are of Khazarian origin, a Turkal-Mongol Asiatic
mix. They have nothing to do with Shem. They are called Azkenazi's who are
in the line of Azkenaz, or the line of Japeth, and are linked with Gog and
Gomer.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Convergence of Evidence: The Key to Historical Proof
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:24:15 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

An excerpt from a Skeptic Magazine Article: "Proving the Holocaust: The
Refutation of Revisionism & the Restoration of History,"

A Convergence of Evidence: The Key to Historical Proof

Within all of these fallacies of thinking about both evolution and the
Holocaust, there is an assumption by the creationists and the
revisionists that if they can just find one tiny crack in the structure
the entire edifice will come tumbling down. This is the fundamental flaw
in their reasoning. The Holocaust is not a single event. The Holocaust
was 10,000 events in 10,000 places, and is proved by 10,000 bits of data
that converge on one conclusion. Neither evolution nor the Holocaust can
be disproved by minor errors or inconsistencies here and there, for the
simple reason that they were never proved by these lone bits of data in
the first place. To understand why, we must consider the nature of proof
in the science of history. How do we know anything happened in the past?

   In 1840 the English philosopher of science, William Whewell,
published his classic work on The Philosophy of the Inductive Sciences,
in which he talked at length about inductions, or generalizations drawn
from specific facts. But to prove a theory one must have more than just
one generalization. And these multiple inductions must all point to a
definite conclusion, building upon one another independently but in
conjunction. Whewell said of these inductions that they "jumped
together" to establish the veracity of a theory. A fond coiner of words
(e.g., "scientist"), Whewell called this method of thinking a
consilience of inductions. "Accordingly the cases in which inductions
from classes of facts altogether different have thus jumped together,
belong only to the best established theories which the history of
science contains. And, as I shall have occasion to refer to this
particular feature in their evidence, I will take the liberty of
describing it by a particular phrase; and will term it the Consilience
of Inductions" (p. 230).

   A less cumbersome phrase might be a convergence of evidence.
Evolution, for example, is proved by the convergence of evidence from
geology, paleontology, botany, zoology, herpetology, entomology,
biogeography, anatomy, physiology, and comparative anatomy. No one piece
of evidence from these diverse fields says "evolution" on it. A fossil
is a snapshot. But a fossil in a geological bed, with other fossils of
the same and different species, compared to species in lower strata and
upper strata, contrasted to modern similar organisms, juxtaposed with
species in other parts of the world, past and present, and so on, turn
that snapshot into a motion picture. Each set of inductions from each
field jumps together to a grand conclusion--evolution. This is how
narrative history becomes scientific history.

   The process is no different in proving the Holocaust. How do we know
about the Holocaust? We have:

   1. Written documents--hundreds of thousands of letters, memos,
blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

   2. Eyewitness testimony--accounts from survivors, Kapos,
Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even
upper-echelon Nazis who did not deny the Holocaust.

   3. Photographs--official military and press photographs, civilian
photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs,
German and Allied film footage, etc.

   4. The camps themselves--many concentration camps, work camps, and
death camps are still extant in varying degrees of originality and
reconstruction.

   5. Negative evidence--if five to six million Jews were not killed,
where did all those people go?

A Case Study in Convergence

Let us examine how this works as a case study in history as a science.
We have an eyewitness account by a survivor who says he heard about
gassing Jews while he was at Auschwitz. The revisionist says that
survivors exaggerate and that their memories are unsound. Another
survivor tells another story different in details but with the core
similarity that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. The revisionist claims
that rumors were floating throughout the camps and many survivors
incorporated them into their memories. An SS guard confesses after the
war that he actually saw people being gassed and cremated. The
revisionist claims that these confessions were forced out of the Nazis
by the Allies. But now a Sonderkommando--a Jew who helped the Nazis load
dead bodies out of the gas chambers and into the crematoria--says he not
only heard about it, and not only saw it happening, he actually
participated in the process. The revisionist explains this away by
saying that the Sonderkommando accounts make no sense-- their figures of
numbers of bodies are exaggerated and their dates are incorrect. What
about the camp commandant, who confessed after the war that he not only
heard, saw, and participated in the process, but that he orchestrated
it!? He was tortured, says the revisionist. But what about his
autobiography written after his trial, conviction, and sentencing to
death, when he had nothing to gain by lying? No one knows why people
confess to ridiculous crimes, explains the revisionist, but they do.

   No single testimony says "Holocaust" on it. But taking many together
the story begins to unfold. And now the revisionist's defense is
beginning to unravel. Instead of the historian having to present "just
one proof," the revisionist must now disprove five pieces of historical
data, with five different methods of disproof. But there is more. We
have the blueprints for both the gas chambers and the crematoria--huge
structures built for processing large numbers of bodies. Those were used
strictly for delousing, claims the revisionist, and thanks to the
Allies' war against Germany, the Germans were never given the
opportunity to deport the Jews to their own homeland, and instead had to
put them into overcrowded camps where disease and lice were rampant.
What about the huge orders of Zyklon-B gas? It was strictly used for
delousing all those diseased inmates. What about those speeches by
Hitler, Himmler, Frank, and Goebbels talking about the "extermination"
of the Jews? Oh, they really meant "rooting out," as in deporting them
out of the Reich. What about Eichmann's confession at his trial? He was
coerced. Hasn't the German government confessed that the Nazis attempted
to exterminate European Jewry? Yes, but they lied so they could rejoin
the family of nations.

   Now the revisionist must rationalize no less than 14 different bits
of evidence that "jump together" to a specific conclusion. But our
convergence continues. If six million Jews did not die, where did they
go? They are in Russia, and America, and Israel, and scattered
throughout the world. But why can't they find each other? They do--
haven't you heard the occasional stories of long-lost siblings making
contact with each other after many decades? What about those photos and
newsreels of the liberation of the camps with all those dead bodies and
starving/dying inmates? Those people were well taken care of until the
end of the war when the Allies were mercilessly bombing German cities,
factories, and supply lines that were feeding those camps--the Nazis
tried valiantly to save their prisoners but the combined strength of the
Allies was too much. But what about all those accounts by prisoners of
the brutality of the Nazis--the random shootings and beatings, the
deplorable conditions, the freezing temperatures, the overwork, etc.?
This is war. The Americans put Japanese in camps. The Japanese
imprisoned Chinese. The Russians tortured Poles and Germans. War is
hell. The Nazis are no different from anyone else.

   Post Hoc Rationalization. We are now up to 18 proofs all converging
toward one conclusion. The revisionist is desperately swinging away at
them all, steadfastly determined not to give up his belief system. He is
relying on what might be called post hoc rationalization--an after-the-
fact reasoning to justify contrary evidence. In addition, the
revisionist then shifts the burden of disproving all this evidence to
the historian by mistakenly demanding that each one of these pieces of
evidence independently prove the Holocaust.

   Am I making all this up? No. This is not a hypothetical case study.
Every one of these examples, and 10,000 more, are readily available in
the various sources cited in this essay, as well as Danuta Czech's
Auschwitz Chronicle (1990), Henry Friedlander and Sybil Milton's The
Holocaust: Ideology, Bureaucracy, and Genocide (1980), Alex Grobman's
Genocide (1983), Michael Marrus's edited nine-volume collection of
articles on The Nazi Holocaust (1989), and Leni Yahil's The Holocaust
(1990). See Bibliography for full citations, as well as for the
revisionists' responses to these works,  which include (with those
already cited): Austin App's The Six Million Swindle (1973), Arthur
Butz's The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (1976), Friedrich and Thomson's
The Hitler We Loved and Why (1977), Richard Harwood's Did Six Million
Really Die? (1992), David Irving's Hitler's War (1977), and Fred
Leuchter's numerous Leuchter Reports on Auschwitz, Dachau, Mauthausen,
Hartheim, and the Mississippi Execution Gas Chamber. Publications about
the revisionists  include Shelly Shapiro's Truth Prevails (1990), Pierre
Vidal-Naquet's Assassins of Memory (1993), Deborah Lipstadt's Denying
the Holocaust (1993), the Simon Wiesenthal Center's The Neo-Nazi
Movement in Germany (1993), and the ADL's Hitler's Apologists (1993).

   Since it is not possible in a magazine-length article to adequately
cover all of the points made above, I will focus in depth on two major
points of contention by the revisionists: (1) the intentionality issue--
whether Hitler and/or the other major Nazis ordered the Holocaust; and
(2) the gas chamber/crematoria accounts. For each we will examine the
convergence of evidence, documenting each step along the way.

[Continued in Part 9]

                          Work Cited

   Shermer, Michael. "Proving the Holocaust: The Refutation of
      Revisionism & the Restoration of History," _Skeptic_, Vol. 2,
      No. 4, Altadena, California, June, 1994. Published by the
      Skeptics Society, 2761 N. Marengo Ave., Altadena, CA 91001,
      (818) 794-3119.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Charles/Disrupters
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:40:44 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:
BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
about CI related topics can send me email to
my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
this over to a new list. I will set one up
if others are interested and we will weed out
the ones who cause trouble via members vote.

Charles
~~~~~~~
Me: Good idea, Charles. I asked Willie to delete the pig slime off the list,
but they're still going at it. They just sit all day and night and write
stuff because the parasites are paid to do this. I found it interesting to
throw a few pieces of bait to Philip last night and to see him chew on it.
Everytime he opens his mouth he reveals more of his deceitful nature. He
just chatters and chatters like a little stupid monkey that never knows when
to quit. And ya, I think Willie needs to tighten up this list. In the
meantime, we all need to ignore the jerks as some have suggested and send
their mail directly to trash where it all belongs. I'd like to know what
Willie has to say about the subject. I think his list is great and deserves
better than having disrupters come here. I think we should try to stay here
until we hear from Willie on the subject.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:49:01 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi ALL!

> > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
> > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> fostering of
> > hate and intolerance.
> >
> > Philip Mathews

The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
Christ Jesus....

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)

Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
Parole, November 27, 1933....

"Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...

(Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
this a one way street?)

For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
manners.

"accursed Christians...."!?
(ever looked up the definition of accursed??)

It is perfectly ok for them to call me accursed....but let
me say..."Wait a minute...there has been a mistake in identity....
These people (jews as you know them today) are not God's chosen
people...it is the Celtic Scandanavian and Germantic peoples of
the world that are the true chosen people."...then I am
immediately labled as "a hate monger"...."one who is intolerant"
..."an antisemetic" (whatever that is!)...."a racist" etc. .

And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
are saying OR what the Bible is saying!

All you do is parrot what they want you too!

Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
antichrist rabbi has in store for you....

At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
definitely enslave the Christian to us."

Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
"I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"

Wheeew!...Can you imangine what would be said?...and people
like you would be leading the parade (out of pure ignorance)!!

Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19

"I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
Christianity....".

Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
the Father? (1John 2:22-23)

Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
you think he kept it all to himself?

In the same book...a letter to a Mrs. Donald MacIntyre, p. 195

"We[Jewery] do not believe that Jesus is in any unique sense
the Son of God."

Rabbi Meir Kahane said in The Jewish Press; January 6, 1989;
p. 49.....(and btw...Rabbi Kahane was the founder of the Jewish
Defense League....a very militant organization)...

"I have not the slightest sympathy for Christianity or Jesus.
As a believing Jew, not only is Jesus not "God," but he is
neither Messiah nor prophet. For the Jew he was a blasphemer,
one who attacked the Torah as unchanging divine law and who
was a false prophet and heretic."

"...the Torah as unchanging divine law...."!?

Here is a little proof that even though they tell you that
they believe the OT as the word of God...they don't....it's
just another one of their lies...

"For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob
are not consumed". (Malachi 3:6)

Now if YHWH doesn't change neither does his law....

This is in total opposition to what this rabbi said and
teaches...

More proof that these antichrists don't believe in the
Old Testament is found in John 5:46-47;

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for
he wrote of me. (47)But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe my words?"

Of course one shouldn't believe the words of Christ,
should he? Instead he should believe the lies of the
Jews/antichrists and lick their boots.... Isn't that
what you....and people like you are saying?

And what else does the Bible have to say about the
comments of these rabbis....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son."  (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also".
                                             (1John 2:23)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and
an antichrist." (2John 7)

"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son". (2John 9)

"If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive
him not into your house, neither bid him God speed". (2John 10"

"For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".
                                                      (2John 11)

Why are you standing up for these people?....In so doing
you are one of them!....

God says if you DO NOT believe Jesus is the Christ...then
you are a liar and an antichrist....

The rabbis say and teach that Jesus Christ is NOT the Christ....
that he is NOT the Son of God....

In the 1980 Jewish Almanac; ISBN 0-553-01265-7; Bantam Books;
Oct. 1980; it states the following in the first sentence of
the first paragraph under the heading "Our Identity Crisis"...

Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

Do you understand what the Jews are saying here?...If not..please
let me help you...They are saying that they ARE NOT the people of
the Bible!!!

"The tactical purpose of political correctness is
to silence the truth in order to protect the lie."
                         (don't know who said that)

Jeremiah

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Subject: [13texan] German Persecution
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:53:10 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Herbie said:
It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government was
*not* persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?
~~~~~~~
Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and imposed gun
control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to war against
Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour Declaration. Benjamin
Freedman exposed that.

As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what they
got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not counting
the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.

I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does that
mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick together,
they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in the
interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Charles/Disrupters
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=740
> Charles wrote:
> BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
> about CI related topics can send me email to
> my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
> this over to a new list. I will set one up
> if others are interested and we will weed out
> the ones who cause trouble via members vote.
>
> Charles
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Good idea, Charles. I asked Willie to delete the pig slime off
the list,
> but they're still going at it.

Typical hateful name calling by someone unable to engage in rational
discussion.

 They just sit all day and night and write
> stuff because the parasites are paid to do this.

Typical lies.

 I found it interesting to
> throw a few pieces of bait to Philip last night and to see him chew
on it.
> Everytime he opens his mouth he reveals more of his deceitful nature.
He
> just chatters and chatters like a little stupid monkey that never
knows when
> to quit.

Inaccurate description by someone afraid to discuss anything
substantive.

 And ya, I think Willie needs to tighten up this list. In the
> meantime, we all need to ignore the jerks as some have suggested and
send
> their mail directly to trash where it all belongs. I'd like to know
what
> Willie has to say about the subject. I think his list is great and
deserves
> better than having disrupters come here. I think we should try to
stay here
> until we hear from Willie on the subject.

Ms. Zimmerman defines as disrupters people who expose the hypocrisy of
supposed Christians, and the lack of historical content in a list
described as a discussion of history.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:44:07 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=741
> Hi ALL!
>
> > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
should
> > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > fostering of
> > > hate and intolerance.
> > >
> > > Philip Mathews
>
>
> The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> Christ Jesus....
>
> "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)

Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow God's
word.

(snip the lies of a well known forgery)

> And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> are saying OR what the Bible is saying!

You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real, (it
isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as justification
for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would hardly
form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even the
entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.

>
> All you do is parrot what they want you too!

Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
authors and websites and pretend its learning.
>
> Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
>
> At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> definitely enslave the Christian to us."
>
> Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"

Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those filthy
Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and the
Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the difference.

>
> Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
> Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
> Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
>
> "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> Christianity....".
>
> Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> the Father? (1John 2:22-23)

No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart and
will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
judge these matters, not you.

>
> Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> you think he kept it all to himself?

It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
poisonous as what you market.

You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to practice
as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Persecution
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:52:21 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=742
> Herbie said:
> It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government
was
> *not* persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
imposed gun
> control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to war
against
> Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour Declaration.
Benjamin
> Freedman exposed that.

You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?

>
> As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
they
> got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
counting
> the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
> Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.

Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of Europe.
>
> I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
that
> mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
together,
> they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in the
> interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.

Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
most basic of Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:58:45 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Charles wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > them before me."
> >
> > nuff said!
>
> Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their belonging
> to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
>

Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27

In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
father the devil, and the lusts of your father
ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....

He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
would rather not read those passages because we
can't answer them....

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list Reply
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:21:16 +1000
From: "Frank Dowsett" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Dear Charles,
Please place my name on your new list.
Frank Dowsett.    fdowsett@idx.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles 
To: 13texan@egroups.com <13texan@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 4:08
Subject: [13texan] A new list

>I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>
>anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
>will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
>anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
>opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
>vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>
>Security:
>
>No arcives will be made public!
>No shared files directoty!
>No Public files directory!
>
>Community email addresses:
>Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
>Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
>Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>Charles
>
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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:27:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Charles wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > them before me."
> > >
> > > nuff said!
> >
> > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
belonging
> > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> >
>
> Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27

These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.

>
> In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....

This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
groups rather that individuals?

>
> He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> would rather not read those passages because we
> can't answer them....

Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered? You are a
disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
outcast from mainstream religion. You better hope the judgment rendered
upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
innocent people.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:29:09 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

LAST NOTE,
        You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
indoctrinated. SIR < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
have been given facts still you refute truth. You may say what you choose
but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH.... Either
you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
Soldier of YHVH
Ramon Sparks

At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
>> SWINE:
>>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
>hand
>> refute truth .
>
>Accept that you are unable to show that.
>
>
> >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
>> SWINE...
>
>The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
>Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
>scripture for their own ends.
>
> The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
>> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
>> messenger.
>
>But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
>
> We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
>> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
>
>
>You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and because
>you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is not
>a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
>any of God's other creatures.
>
>
>
> WE CHOOSE to not allow
>> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established
>as
>> allowing you to succeed.
>
>I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
>hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate you
>generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
>
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
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>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:32:40 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
> LAST NOTE,
>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
> indoctrinated. SIR

That would describe you I'm afraid.

 < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
> have been given facts still you refute truth.

You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth. Why
you choose not to debate is obvious.

You may say what you choose
> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
Either
> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
> Soldier of YHVH

Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
nature of what you call Christianity.

Philip Mathews

> Ramon Sparks
>
>
>
>
> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ramon wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> >> SWINE:
> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
> >hand
> >> refute truth .
> >
> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
> >
> >
> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> >> SWINE...
> >
> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
> >scripture for their own ends.
> >
> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
> >> messenger.
> >
> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
> >
> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
> >
> >
> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
because
> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is
not
> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
> >any of God's other creatures.
> >
> >
> >
> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
established
> >as
> >> allowing you to succeed.
> >
> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate
you
> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
> >
> >
> >Philip Mathews
> >
> >

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:45:00 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>~~~~~~~
>Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which says that
>"Edom is modern Jewry?" Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
>your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and Judaism
>were the same, so go do your own research for once.
>JM

Communism and Judaism are exactly the same, JM....that's why they say,
"scratch a Jew and you'll find a communist"....And I think deep down the
Jews are proud of this fact....They are defineatly perverted liars.

David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:56:38 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

MUCH LAUGHTER !!!!!!

Ramon

At 06:32 PM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
>> LAST NOTE,
>>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
>> indoctrinated. SIR
>
>That would describe you I'm afraid.
>
> < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
>> have been given facts still you refute truth.
>
>You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth. Why
>you choose not to debate is obvious.
>
>
>
>You may say what you choose
>> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
>Either
>> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
>> Soldier of YHVH
>
>Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
>nature of what you call Christianity.
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
>
>
>> Ramon Sparks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Ramon wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
>> >> SWINE:
>> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
>> >hand
>> >> refute truth .
>> >
>> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
>> >
>> >
>> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
>> >> SWINE...
>> >
>> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
>> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
>> >scripture for their own ends.
>> >
>> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
>> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
>> >> messenger.
>> >
>> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
>> >
>> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
>> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
>> >
>> >
>> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
>because
>> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is
>not
>> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
>> >any of God's other creatures.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
>> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
>established
>> >as
>> >> allowing you to succeed.
>> >
>> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
>> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate
>you
>> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
>> >
>> >
>> >Philip Mathews
>> >
>> >
>
>
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>
>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: [ Edom/Jews/Judah]
Date: 2 Sep 99 20:57:29 CDT
From: Bill Hoyt 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

"Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman"  wrote:
>Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
>redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.

Very easy to say, but not to prove.  The original word in the New Testament is
"Ioudiaos", which means, according to Strong's Concordance, "Judaen, belonging
to Jehudah, Jew".

There is no evidence that it was ever any other word (of course, if you have
some, I'd be willing to look at it).

Now, what is a Jew?  Accoring to Webster's first dictionary (which is the
oldest I have (1828)), a Jew is "A Hebrew or Israelite".  Interesting, I think
Jesus qualifies on both counts.  And the modern Webster's defines "Jew" as

Main Entry: Jew
Pronunciation: 'jü
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French gyu, from Latin Judaeus, from Greek
Ioudaios, from Hebrew YehudhI, from
YehudhAh Judah, Jewish kingdom
Date: 13th century
1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : ISRAELITE
2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C. to
the 1st century A.D.
3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the
ancient Jewish people
4 : one whose religion is Judaism

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?jew

So I think Jesus qualifies on all 4 counts there.  I suppose one could create
a definition which does not include Him, but I have not yet seen one.

>After
>Assyrian captivity, Israel went to Arsareth, from II Esdras 13. Arsareth
>is Germany.

This is rather curious.  So then the Jews are not Israelites, even though
that's what the name means.  Instead, the Israelites are modern-day Germans.

Well, let's ask the Germans where they came from:

The Anglos and Saxons were a Germanic tribe.  And the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles
claims that the Saxons came from "Aethelwulf, son of Egbert...Itermon, the son
of Hathra, the son of Bedwig, the son of Scaef, who is the Son of Noah and was
born in Noah's Ark." (Year 855, AS Chronicles)  Now I have followed the line
from Aethelwulf, the King of the Saxons back to Noah (and left out a few, but
you can look them up if you'd like), and there's no Israel, Jacob, Joseph, or
Abraham on the list.  Surely if the Germans had such fine ancestors, they
would have included them in the geneological rolls.

Two that they did include in the list were Woden and Geat, and we shall return
to them in a moment.

Then Bede, the 8th century Saxon monk, traces the genealogy of Hengist and
Horsa (the first Saxon chieftains in England), back to "Witta, whose father
was Wecta, son of Woden, from whose stock sprang the royal houses of many
provinces" Bede, "Ecclesiastical History", I, 15.

And Nennius, the 8th Century Btitish Monk, gives the genealogy of the Germans
thus: "Horsa and Hengist, brothers, and sons of Wihtgills.  Wihtgills was the
son of Witta, the son of Wecta, the son of Woden.  Woden of Frithowald,
Frithowald of Frithowulf, Frithowulf of Finn, Finn of Godwulf, Godwulf of
Geat, who as they say, is the son of a God" Nenniius, "Historia Brittonum"
31.

The German epic Beowulf (7th-10th century) also has the same cast of
ancestors.  In it, Beowulf is a Geating (Beowulf, 195)

Asser's life of King Alfred (9th century) also lists the Saxon ancestry to
include "Beldeg, who was the son of Woden, who was the son of Frithowald...who
was the son of Geat (whom the Pagans long worshipped as a god)...who was the
son of Seth, who was the son of Noah"  Asser, "Life of Alfred", Part I. (the
fact that Asser uses Seth instead of Scaef is noted by Medieval archivists,
and Florence of Worchester, writing in 1118, noted "Seth saxones Scaef"
(Corpus Christi Library Cambridge MS XCII (Parker Library)), so even they
realized that Seth was the Scaef of the other chronicles.

So, we have seen from five Saxon separate sources (and they truly are
separate, as they begin in different places, end in different places, and
eliminate separate ancestors), none of which associate the Saxons (or the
Geatings, who merged with the Swedes) with Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob.  What we
have instead is this ubiquitous "Scaef" ("Seskef" in the Vesstusisima Regum
Septentrionius Series Langdethgatal dicta and the Prose Edda, and "Scef" in
the Fabii Ethelwerdi Chronicorum libri quattuor, the Royal Genealogies of
Iceland, Norway, and Denmark)

So who is Scaef (of Seskef, or Seth)?  Let's say first who it is not: it is
obvious that it is not a later scribal introduction into the text to give
"Biblical" ancestors to the Saxons.  No Christian scribe would have entered
(or let stand) the blunder about Seskef being born in Noah's Ark.  So it must
be original to the text.  And the Christians never used "Seskef" when they
were referring to Genesis, but always the Latin name "Iafeth".

Scaef is, in fact, the Saxonized version of Japeth, whom the later scribes
called Iafeth, and he was not born in the ark.  How do we know he's Japeth?

Because Nennius, our 5th century scribe, tells us, "I have learned another
account of this Brutus (the ancestor of the Britons) from the ancient books of
our ancestors.  After the deluge, the three sons of Noah severally occupied
three different parts of the earth: Shem extended his borders into Asia, Ham
into Africa, and Japeth into Europe" (Nennius, "Historia Brittonum", 17) and
says "The whole of Europe was subdivided into these tribes".

Also, every late-medieval scribe who wrote on these matters called the founder
of the Saxons "Iafeth".  It becomes obvious that they considered their branch
of the human family to be descended from Japeth, not Shem, Abraham, or Israel.
 In fact, there is no single mention of either of these three (or even Hebrew
names) in any of these documents, except in relation to Christ.  If the
Germans were descended from the Hebrews, it would come as a great surprise to
them.

>Most Jews of today are of Khazarian origin, a Turkal-Mongol
>Asiatic mix. They have nothing to do with Shem. They are called
>Azkenazi's who are in the line of Azkenaz, or the line of Japeth,
>and are linked with Gog and Gomer.

German Jews are indeed called Ashkenazim, and Gomer is linked with the
Cimmerians, and hence, Germany (The Assyrian Esarhaddon records his defeat at
the hands of the "Gimarri").

However, since by the time the Israelites would have been absorbed into the
Germans, the Germans were well established in Europe, a people like the
Israelites would have disappeared without a trace (which they did, apparently,
since there are no Hebrew names in any of the Germanic documents).

So since the Germans (according to Bede, Nennius, and "Beowulf") were
uniformly pagan in 500ad, any Jews who appear under that title must have
arrived after the fall of the Roman Empire (or they would not still be Jews),
and so have no bearing on our discussion.

When Paul wrote Romans, he said:

"What shall we then say?  That the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness
have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel, who pursued a
law of righteousness has not attained it" (Rom 9:30-1)  Now it is pretty clear
from the context that Paul considers Israel (v 31) and "The Jews" (v 24) to be
the same thing.  And for me, that settles it.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:00:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=751
>
> >~~~~~~~
> >Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which
says that
> >"Edom is modern Jewry?"

It's not my encyclopedia. Do you assume that because someone has you
pegged as a hateful antisemite  that means they are Jewish? You're
abhorrent to all decent people.

 Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
> >your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and
Judaism
> >were the same, so go do your own research for once.

You call citing one Jews opinion as research, or proof of your point?
Pfui!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:01:50 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=752
> MUCH LAUGHTER !!!!!!

Hehehe.

Philip Mathews

>
> Ramon
>
>
>
>
> At 06:32 PM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ramon wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
> >> LAST NOTE,
> >>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
> >> indoctrinated. SIR
> >
> >That would describe you I'm afraid.
> >
> > < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
> >> have been given facts still you refute truth.
> >
> >You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth.
Why
> >you choose not to debate is obvious.
> >
> >
> >
> >You may say what you choose
> >> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
> >Either
> >> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
> >> Soldier of YHVH
> >
> >Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
> >nature of what you call Christianity.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Ramon Sparks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >Ramon wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> >> >> SWINE:
> >> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the
other
> >> >hand
> >> >> refute truth .
> >> >
> >> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> >> >> SWINE...
> >> >
> >> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
> >> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
> >> >scripture for their own ends.
> >> >
> >> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it
tells
> >> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend
the
> >> >> messenger.
> >> >
> >> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
> >> >
> >> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> >> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
> >because
> >> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you
is
> >not
> >> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose
than
> >> >any of God's other creatures.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
> >> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
> >established
> >> >as
> >> >> allowing you to succeed.
> >> >
> >> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies
and
> >> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful
hate
> >you
> >> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Philip Mathews
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >

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Subject: [13texan] Willie
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:05:01 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hey brother,
      If you can not eliminate these non believers please remove me from
the public list and keep me on your private list. Many thanks brathair,

Ramon

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:13:52 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: "Andy" 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: <13texan@egroups.com>
>Subject: [13texan] The List
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:32:15 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to
>be
>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
>Vaya Con Dios, Andy

Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
have nothing to offer us.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:23:07 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Herb Gorman wrote:
>
> David Griffin wrote:
>
> > Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
> > discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
> > to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
> > less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
> > our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
> > the mind of Christ as we do.
>
> Interesting - the "Group information" section says of this group:
>
> "A History Discussion Group" ... which is why it seems strange that David does
> not want to discuss history. I didn't see anything about religion in the
> description, just history.
>
> Curious.
>

And you are saying the Bible isn't a history book?

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:30:49 -0700
From: "Yuriy Kirienko" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Willie:

I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not. They had
to prove their allegation but Jews never do. They always commit
a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
being anti-Semitic. Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
the judges.

They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
hear them.

Yuriy |Kirienko

-----Original Message-----
From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
Sent: September 02, 1999 11:20
To: 13texan@egroups.com
Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS

Willie Martin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=726
>     Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
> had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
> EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
> to do anything to delete it or anything else.
>
>     I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get
some
> answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
> subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
> repspond. I don't know what else to do.
>
>     You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even
access.
> I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so
mad
> without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
> sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that
I
> can do about it.

I think the more important question is why someone should be removed
from this list just because some members do not like to have their view
and prejudices challenged?  The description for this group is history
discussion. I've been trying to discuss history, but whenever the
subject gets beyond glib antisemitic allegations, people go into attack
mode and wish only to disparage Jews.

>
>     As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
> try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
> and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several
have
> dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

And are you as sensitive to having your views discussed as so many of
the other list members?  I am frankly amazed at the inability and
unwillingness of list participants to defend their views. The ultimate
defense, usually reached very quickly, is to blame Jews for everthing,
accuse an opponent of being Jewish and concluding from that assumption
in antisemitic fashion that that makes their views somehow irrelevant.
These same folks will deny their antisemitsm (except for a few) or that
they are hate filled in their beliefs. What Christian faith teaches
such hate?

>
>     Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
> do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
> Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite
tribes.
>
>     Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
> the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
> what you are saying about personal information.
>
>     It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
> at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.
>
>     If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
> started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because
like
> I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members
list,
> or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
> want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.
>
>     I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do
anything
> about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
> controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
> destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you.
The
> only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people
some
> information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
> recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
> enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
> therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics
when
> they begin.

I'm sure there must be a technical reason for this. I've never heard of
an email list being taken over. I hope it gets solved soon, and I hope
that you will opt for the free expression of ideas which are on topic
for this group.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:07:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:13 PM 9/2/99 CDT, you wrote:

>>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
>>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
>>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
>>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to
>>be
>>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
>>Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>
>Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
>Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
>have nothing to offer us.
>
>Hail Jesus' Victory!
>David

While some of us are gathered on this list in our research into the history
of the jewish conspiracy we must be careful to not associate too intimately
with these poisoners of the European Christian mind. Some of us are here to
investigate a conspiracy that we each have independently been researching on
our own for some time. This is fortunate and very opportune for us now. Let's
take advantage of this and share information which will fill in the missing
pieces in our respective research. But let's not be drawn into arguing with
nor trying to prove anything to jews and their shabbez goyim. Perhaps there
are lurkers on the list that have begun to suspect a jewish conspiracy and
they will gain something from our sharing of information.

And keep this in mind in regards to the jews contributions to the list:

When you're a jew, you're a jew all the way
>From your first Kol Nidre to your last lying day ...

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:18:58 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 06:57 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ed Kadach wrote:
>
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
>> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>> >Philip Mathews said:
>> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>>
>> > > Philip Mathews
>> > > ~~~~~~~
>>
>> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
>and
>> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
>> alt.revisionism.
>
>
>
>Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I roundly
>condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
>group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
>wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
>The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
>hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
>criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
>information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
>police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop such
>activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.
>
>Philip Mathews

And if you were a more honest person you would admit that only on the
first occasion that the Nazihunter posted the info on me did you condemn
the action. Since then, over the last half dozen times or so that it has
re-occurred you have been very silent. I checked the archives just to be
certain. However, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the archive search.
In regards to my wife, if you check the archives, I posted her more
recent views on the jews. I do not deny that she was upset at me at
one time due to the property damage we incurred and the rash of phone
calls we received and continue to receive.
In regards to the police, I stated right from the start that the police
were notified and still are involved. John Morris, one of Edmonton's
resident Zionists insists he has information but has set forth certain
criteria that he wants met before he hands anything over. Why doesn't
he just hand it over as a good citizen should, keeping in mind that the
Nazihunter as you have stated is a criminal?

Now, of all the Nazihunter's posts inciting people to harass my family
and I, where was your condemnation over this recent posting of his?

 >> Forum: alt.revisionism
                         >> Thread: WHY NOT TELL ED'S NEIGHBORS ABOUT THEIR
                   NAZI BASTARD NEIGHBOR
                           >> Message 71 of 57280


                   Subject:
                         WHY NOT TELL ED'S NEIGHBORS ABOUT THEIR
                         NAZI BASTARD NEIGHBOR
                   Date:
                         1999/08/08
                   Author:
                         nazihunter 
                           Posting History

                    Fretz, Kevin*
                    103 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Haukenfrers, Hans*
                    106 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Sinclair, Leonard*
                    10655-52 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Jagessar, Jacelyn*
                    10721-116 St NW 13
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Balkan, Brad*
                    116 St NW 1110
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove

                    FRESH NUMBERS TO CONTACT THE NAZI PIG KADACH AND HIS
                    FAMILY.
                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL AND TELL THEM WHAT A SCUMBAG ED IS?

                    Ed Kadach
                    XXX St NW XXXX
                    Edmonton, AB T6H 2Z7 Phone: 780-XXX-XXXX, : 780-XXX-XXXX

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 03:48:28 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi ALL!
> >
> > > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
> should
> > > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > > fostering of
> > > > hate and intolerance.
> > > >
> > > > Philip Mathews
> >
> >
> > The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> > Christ Jesus....
> >
> > "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> > darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)
>
> Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
> Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow God's
> word.

Did I say that was what that passage said....No I didn't...
Did you give any Scriptures for your unabridged criticism...
no you didn't....and your inadequate attempt at building
a strawman is almost laughable....

In the above passage the words fellowship and reprove as
found in the Greek are in the Present tense - active voice
and imerative mood...The imperative mood expresses a command
to the hearer to perform an action by the authority of the one
commanding....this isn't an invitation or a "Gee, I wish
you would do this"...but an absolute command requiring full
obedience....
>
> (snip the lies of a well known forgery)
>
A forgery?....Hummm...means there has to be an
original somewhere...doesn't it?

It is also a very easy way out..so as not to have
to deal with the material....

Please....by all means document your unfounded accusation...
Until you do I am going to keep putting it in...

Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
Parole, November 27, 1933....

"Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...

(Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
this a one way street?)

For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
manners.

"accursed Christians...."!?
(ever looked up the definition of accursed??)

> > And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> > are saying OR what the Bible is saying!
>
> You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real, (it
> isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as justification
> for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would hardly
> form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even the
> entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.
>

No it doesn't represent the words of one man...It represents
the words of Judaism as a whole...

"The people of God[Jews] cooperate with atheists; the most
skillful accumulators of property ally themselves with
communists; the peculiar and chosen race touch the hand of
all the scum and low casts in Europe! And all this because
they wish to destroy that ungrateful Christendom...whose
tyranny they can no longer endure."
Benjamin Disraeli, "Lord George Bentinck A Political
Biography"; London: Archibald Constable and Co. Lmtd;
1905; p. 324

"It (the NT) presupposes the concept of Jesus of
Nasareth as a divnity, a concept which we do not
accept..we do not accept jesus of Nazareth as the
Christ." Rabbi Joachim Prinz, testamony, New Jersey
Supreme Court, Tudor vs. Board of Education of
Rutherford, 14 N.J. 31(1953) certiorari denied 348
U.S. 816(1954)

These people are antichrists....and you say I am a
hater because I expose them?

> >
> > All you do is parrot what they want you too!
>
> Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> authors and websites and pretend its learning.

antisemetic?....mind telling me what antisemetic means...

And I suppose that you have a list of know everything
authors that give superior knowledge...(This ought to be good)

> >
> > Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> > antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
> >
> > At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> > Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> > definitely enslave the Christian to us."
> >
> > Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> > "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> > all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> > will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"
>
> Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those filthy
> Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and the
> Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the difference.
>
Where are you getting your knowledge to make this JUDGMENT?
And why don't you make the same judgment on the antichrists?

> >
> > Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> > Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
> > Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
> > Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> > Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
> >
> > "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> > Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> > of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> > Christianity....".
> >
> > Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> > the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> > the Father? (1John 2:22-23)
>
> No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
> believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
> which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart and
> will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
> judge these matters, not you.
>
Tells us!?....who are "us"?

Now if you direct me to the Scriptures concerning the Muslim,
Bhuddist, Hindu, etc. I would be more than happy to oblige...
because the word of God says to expose the evil deeds of
darkness...which is something you do not want to do...it's
called fear....

 >
> > Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> > you think he kept it all to himself?
>
> It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
> poisonous as what you market.
>

To deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God isn't "poisonous"?!...
but to expose those who deny Him is?...

All I am doing is trying to expose their God hating
practices....of course it is okay as far as you are
concerned...for them to hate my Saviour...the Lord
Jesus Christ....just as long as no one offends one
of the God haters...

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth". Luke 11:23

"And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is
not against us is for us". Luke 9:50

> You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
> their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
> mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to practice
> as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
> unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.
>
"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any
iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth:
at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three
witnesses, shall the matter be established". Deut 19:15

I've given my two or three witnesses....

Are these the lies you are referring too....the rest of
this post are the Scriptures you cut out of the first
post because YOU CAN NOT AND WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEM!

"For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob
are not consumed". (Malachi 3:6)

Now if YHWH doesn't change neither does his law....

This is in total opposition to what this rabbi said and
teaches...

More proof that these antichrists don't believe in the
Old Testament is found in John 5:46-47;

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for
he wrote of me. (47)But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe my words?"

Of course one shouldn't believe the words of Christ,
should he? Instead he should believe the lies of the
Jews/antichrists and lick their boots.... Isn't that
what you....and people like you are saying?

And what else does the Bible have to say about the
comments of these rabbis....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son."  (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also".
                                             (1John 2:23)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and
an antichrist." (2John 7)

"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son". (2John 9)

"If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive
him not into your house, neither bid him God speed". (2John 10"

"For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".
                                                      (2John 11)

Why are you standing up for these people?....In so doing
you are one of them!....

God says if you DO NOT believe Jesus is the Christ...then
you are a liar and an antichrist....

The rabbis say and teach that Jesus Christ is NOT the Christ....
that he is NOT the Son of God....

In the 1980 Jewish Almanac; ISBN 0-553-01265-7; Bantam Books;
Oct. 1980; it states the following in the first sentence of
the first paragraph under the heading "Our Identity Crisis"...

Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

Do you understand what the Jews are saying here?...If not..please
let me help you...They are saying that they ARE NOT the people of
the Bible!!!

"The tactical purpose of political correctness is
to silence the truth in order to protect the lie."
                         (don't know who said that)

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:16:57 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi all!
 jsavage wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Charles wrote:
> > >
> > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > > them before me."
> > > >
> > > > nuff said!
> > >
> > > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> > > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
> belonging
> > > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> > >
> >
> > Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> > as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> > neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27
>
> These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Why not?

>
> >
> > In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> > father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> > ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....
>
> This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
> rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
> groups rather that individuals?

OH!...who is Jesus Christ speaking to in John 8:44? I always
thought the context was found in vs 48....Would you show me
the correct context....

>
> >
> > He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> > would rather not read those passages because we
> > can't answer them....
>
> Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered?

Then you give me the correct interpretation of those passages.
I am always willing to learn...

You are a
> disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
> outcast from mainstream religion.

When one can not deal with the subject matter they
always turn on the person and try to discredit them...

> You better hope the judgment rendered
> upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
> innocent people.
>

"innocent people"?....such as??

I already know the judgment that will be rendered upon me! 

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list Reply
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:37:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Muriel Schmidt 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles:  add my name to your list.  Thanks.

9 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Charles,
>Please place my name on your new list.
>Frank Dowsett.    fdowsett@idx.com.au
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles 
>To: 13texan@egroups.com <13texan@egroups.com>
>Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 4:08
>Subject: [13texan] A new list
>
>
>>I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>>
>>anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
>>will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
>>anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
>>opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
>>vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>>
>>Security:
>>
>>No arcives will be made public!
>>No shared files directoty!
>>No Public files directory!
>>
>>Community email addresses:
>>Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
>>Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
>>Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>>
>>Charles
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
_______________________________________________________________
"If population centers go without power more than 72 hours,
we'll activate Schwarzkopf and go to Martial Law - it's
automatic."
        - Emergency Management Official - S.E. United States

Muriel H. Schmidt  mailto:muriels@nwark.com     ICQ #13907589
______________________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:13 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Wille,
       Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE still
want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those who
would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you through
contentious actions.

Your Brother as always ,
Ramon

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: [ Edom/Jews/Judah]
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:04:33 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>
>
>"Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman"  wrote:
> >Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
> >redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.

Very true, JM...our LORD Jesus Christ was not a Jew...He was a Judean...He
was an Israelite....But He was never a Jew....He despised the Jews; as did
Paul and the other apostles....and as we should today.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:12:00 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Ed Kadach 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
>Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:07:18 -0600
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-731-david_223=hotmail.com@returns.egroups.com Thu Sep
>2 21:05:56 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 1999
>05:04:12 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
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>SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 04:04:10 -0000
>Received: from edkadach (dialin009.connect.ab.ca [207.34.96.9]) by
>portal.connect.ab.ca (8.9.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA16206 for
><13texan@egroups.com>; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:55:48 -0600 (MDT)
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>In-Reply-To: <19990903021352.50233.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>At 09:13 PM 9/2/99 CDT, you wrote:
>
> >>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
> >>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
> >>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
> >>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked
>to
> >>be
> >>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them
>out.
> >>Vaya Con Dios, Andy
> >
> >Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman
>and
> >Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
> >have nothing to offer us.
> >
> >Hail Jesus' Victory!
> >David
>
>
>
>While some of us are gathered on this list in our research into the history
>of the jewish conspiracy we must be careful to not associate too intimately
>with these poisoners of the European Christian mind. Some of us are here to
>investigate a conspiracy that we each have independently been researching
>on
>our own for some time. This is fortunate and very opportune for us now.
>Let's
>take advantage of this and share information which will fill in the missing
>pieces in our respective research. But let's not be drawn into arguing with
>nor trying to prove anything to jews and their shabbez goyim. Perhaps there
>are lurkers on the list that have begun to suspect a jewish conspiracy and
>they will gain something from our sharing of information.
>
>
>And keep this in mind in regards to the jews contributions to the list:
>
>When you're a jew, you're a jew all the way
>From your first Kol Nidre to your last lying day ...
>
>
>
>Racialist regards,
>
>Ed Kadach

So true, Ed....the Jews are masters of deceit..They have nothing at all to
offer us...Their agenda is to devide and conquer...Knowing this  going in,
gives us a foot up on them...All Jews must be excluded from  from
communication regarding our Identity....All they know is lying....it is
there way, as our LORD said it was.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:18:01 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: americans@grove.net
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Willie
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:13 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>Wille,
>        Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE still
>want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those who
>would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you through
>contentious actions.
>
>Your Brother as always ,
>Ramon
>
>Thought for the Day:
>
>"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"
>
>R. Sparks

Willie....keep up the good work...I'm with you, brother....I'm here to learn
from you, my friend...I can deal with the Jews....they are so predictable;
and very easy to avoid.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David
>

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Subject: [13texan] History/My Turf
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:56:59 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I had said:
Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
imposed gun control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to
war against Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour
Declaration. Benjamin Freedman exposed that.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil said:

You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?
~~~~~~~
Me: I haven't had the chance yet to send Phil's stuff to trash yet, but
after this, I'm directing it all there. For the sake of the list, and of
historical accuracy, I will answer this barbarian's question:

The Jews are a tribe who think in terms of collective interests. They are
the ones who flooded Germany with filth, prostitution, and the like. The
Weimar Republic was full of Jews. FDR, as Under Secretary of the Navy, and
Churchill, in colloboration with Zionists, arranged the Lusitania to be
filled to the max with war arnaments to be used against Germany. The Germans
warned against doing this openly, but it happened anyway and Germany
torpedoed the boat. It sunk with 1,195 lives losts. The wreck has since been
found underwater filled with explosives which caused the ship to sink. But
the sinking of the Lusitania gave the Judenited States an excuse to go to
war against Germany on Britain's side for the sake of Zionists getting the
Balfour Declaration in conjunction with the British seeking a Middle East
influence. So, here we have the Germans, British, and Americans going to
war, and the Zionists just sitting in the wings watching the blood shed. But
what does one expect? A Zionist serves the God of War and of Money and of
Domination.

As for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, little Phil forgets what the Judenited
States did. I call it that because, for one, the "Federal Reserve" which is
not a government body is owned and controlled by Jews. Jewish Rothschild
even said he didn't care what the government was as long as he could control
the money of the nation which would influence its direction. By the way,
Rothschild is a name change from a Jewish name, just like Rockefeller is.

Anyway, FDR put an embargo on Japan, and Japan tried to negotiate to stop
this embargo. This embargo was an act of war on the part of FDR, and
therefore, Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was actually a retaliation. It was
the excuse that the Judenited States needed to go to war against Germany
because Germany and Japan had their treaties. It is known in Polish embassy
documents that FDR was looking for a European war in the early 1930's, and
the Pearl Harbor attack was the impetus to it.
~~~~~~~
I had said:
As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
they got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
counting the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil said:

Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of Europe.
~~~~~~~
Me: Now look at this, list. I never said a thing about the National
Socialists murdering millions of Jews. I said they "deserved" what they got,
and that was expulsion from Germany under the Third Reich. That is all I
meant by it. I only feel that way because of what Jews do to a nation: they
lower its moral tone, dominate everything they can get their hands on,
control whole parliaments and congresses. I am aware there are those among
them not directly involved in these things, but as long as they stick
together and think collectively, they are all complicit. Therefore, it is
always to our benefit that they are removed from our civilization to go live
somewhere just amongst themselves where they can prey on each other and
leave us alone.
~~~~~~~
I had said:
I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
that mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
together, they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in
the interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil:

Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
most basic of Christian values.
~~~~~~~
Me: I have true Shemitic blood in me, so that makes Phil an anti-Shemite. I
also have royal blood in me as well, natural and spiritual.
Phil is a Khazar from Japheth's line. He's just interloping on my turf, and
how dare he do this?
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:56:48 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Y. Kirienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> Willie:
>
> I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
> before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
> of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
judgment of their fellow man.

>
> When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.

>
> That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as such.

>
> The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.

False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all of
them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
facade built on lies and hate.

 They had
> to prove their allegation but Jews never do.

Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.

 They always commit
> a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> being anti-Semitic.

Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
your charges?

Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
> serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> the judges.

The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
>
> They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> hear them.

You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
convoluted thinking which you have displayed.

During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish to
stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:09:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=761
> At 06:57 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ed Kadach wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
> >> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >> >Philip Mathews said:
> >> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get
ripped!
> >>
> >> > > Philip Mathews
> >> > > ~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
> >and
> >> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts
to
> >> alt.revisionism.
> >
> >
> >
> >Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I
roundly
> >condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
> >group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
> >wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
> >The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
> >hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
> >criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
> >information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
> >police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop
such
> >activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> And if you were a more honest person you would admit that only on the
> first occasion that the Nazihunter posted the info on me did you
condemn
> the action.

False. How typical of you to lie. I have twice roundly condemned the
actions. The second time immediately after you told the poster to AR
that I deserved to have a cordotomy performed on me. Wrong as usual Mr.
Kadach.

 Since then, over the last half dozen times or so that it has
> re-occurred you have been very silent. I checked the archives just to
be
> certain.

That's true, I don't feel the necessity of going on the record
everytime your phone number is posted on AR

 >However, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the archive search.
> In regards to my wife, if you check the archives, I posted her more
> recent views on the jews. I do not deny that she was upset at me at
> one time due to the property damage we incurred and the rash of phone
> calls we received and continue to receive.

And I particularly condemned the escalation of the harrassment to
include your family. In fact I wrote:

(begin quote)

Last September, in what was my first month in AR, Ed Kadach's phone
number was posted in what I thought was a frightening act of
intimidation.  I condemned the act and, in my newbie naivte, urged the
group to speak out on it.  A few did and I had an interesting exchange
with, I believe, Andrew Mathis.

I didn't know Kadach at the time, having seen only a couple of posts of
his.  In the months since, the full extent of his vile and hateful
views of numerous groups has given me a better understanding of why
more people didn't address the act at the time.  It is difficult to get
beyond the kind of powerful animus someone with his views engenders.

In my dealings with Kadach I have given at least as good as I got.  And
I knew my comments hit the intended mark when he recently gave me the
distinction of being the only person mentioned by name in his
despicable post on  cervical cordotomies. He clearly doesn't think much
of me, and the feeling is returned with more than equal force.

But forcing Ed Kadach off this group by intimidation is wrong.  It's
wrong to call his home.  It's even more egregious to involve his loved
ones.  He has the right to give voice to his views, however ignorant
and hateful.  I want those kinds of views aired in the public square,
where fools like me, with apparently nothing better to do, can
vigorously challenge and refute them.

It's ironic that this should occur at the very time that Doc Tony and
Gord are discussing speech rights.  I'm not sure yet where I come out
between them.  I support the broadest possible exercise of individual
rights, but I also believe that those rights can't be absolute in their
expression, if only because so many people avail themselves of so many
rights that conflicts are inevitable.  Doc's concern about where to
draw the line is a serious one.  But with absolutely no limits on
freedoms, the practical ability to enjoy them wouldn't exist.

Certainly this is not the case with Kadach.  I would be shocked if
anyone in this group felt his actions exceeded even a somewhat narrow
definition of free speech rights.  We need to condemn this activity in
no uncertain terms.  I wish Mr. Kadach's family well.

(end quote)

> In regards to the police, I stated right from the start that the
police
> were notified and still are involved. John Morris, one of Edmonton's
> resident Zionists insists he has information but has set forth certain
> criteria that he wants met before he hands anything over.

The criteria is that he will provided the information only directly to
the police. Have you acccepted that stipulation?

 Why doesn't
> he just hand it over as a good citizen should, keeping in mind that
the
> Nazihunter as you have stated is a criminal?

Addressed above.
>
> Now, of all the Nazihunter's posts inciting people to harass my
family
> and I, where was your condemnation over this recent posting of his?

I am on the record on more than one occasion, the most recent being in
March of this year. My support of free speech rights are real. Yours
are suspect. If this activity was happening to a Jew, you and your
fellow travelers would probably say they deserved it, just like they
deserved the Holocaust.



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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:31:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=762
> Hi ALL!
> > >
> > > > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
> > should
> > > > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > > > fostering of
> > > > > hate and intolerance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Philip Mathews
> > >
> > >
> > > The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> > > Christ Jesus....
> > >
> > > "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> > > darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)
> >
> > Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
> > Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow
God's
> > word.
>
> Did I say that was what that passage said....No I didn't...
> Did you give any Scriptures for your unabridged criticism...
> no you didn't....and your inadequate attempt at building
> a strawman is almost laughable....

Please, who do you think your fooling. And I don't attempt to use
scripture to support by views, there is too much of that by people who
feel the need to buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord.

>
> In the above passage the words fellowship and reprove as
> found in the Greek are in the Present tense - active voice
> and imerative mood...The imperative mood expresses a command
> to the hearer to perform an action by the authority of the one
> commanding....this isn't an invitation or a "Gee, I wish
> you would do this"...but an absolute command requiring full
> obedience....
> >
> > (snip the lies of a well known forgery)
> >
> A forgery?....Hummm...means there has to be an
> original somewhere...doesn't it?

Which is irrelevant to its value.

>
> It is also a very easy way out..so as not to have
> to deal with the material....
>
> Please....by all means document your unfounded accusation...
> Until you do I am going to keep putting it in...
>
> Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
> Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
> Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
> Parole, November 27, 1933....
>
> "Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
> accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
> progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
> has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...
>
> (Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
> not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
> this a one way street?)
>
> For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
> have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
> the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
> Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
> manners.
>
> "accursed Christians...."!?
> (ever looked up the definition of accursed??)
>
>
>
> > > And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> > > are saying OR what the Bible is saying!
> >
> > You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real,
(it
> > isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as
justification
> > for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would
hardly
> > form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even
the
> > entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.
> >
>
> No it doesn't represent the words of one man...It represents
> the words of Judaism as a whole...

False. No more than your woods represents Christianity.

>
> "The people of God[Jews] cooperate with atheists; the most
> skillful accumulators of property ally themselves with
> communists; the peculiar and chosen race touch the hand of
> all the scum and low casts in Europe!

Atheists have rights on this earth and all religions cooperate with
them in daily life as they should.

 And all this because
> they wish to destroy that ungrateful Christendom...whose
> tyranny they can no longer endure."

More lies.

>
> These people are antichrists....and you say I am a
> hater because I expose them?

You haven't shown them to be any such thing. You've only shown your
mindless hatred, which you spew forth with a combination of lies,
distortions, ignorance, and the desire to smear a whole people on this
basis.

>
> > >
> > > All you do is parrot what they want you too!
> >
> > Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> > authors and websites and pretend its learning.
>
> antisemetic?....mind telling me what antisemetic means...

Hating Jews. Ever heard of a dictionary?

>
> And I suppose that you have a list of know everything
> authors that give superior knowledge...(This ought to be good)

There are no know everything authors. But you would do better to pick
some who know  something.

> > > Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> > > antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
> > >
> > > At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> > > Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> > > definitely enslave the Christian to us."
> > >
> > > Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> > > "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> > > all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> > > will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"
> >
> > Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those
filthy
> > Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and
the
> > Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the
difference.
> >
> Where are you getting your knowledge to make this JUDGMENT?
> And why don't you make the same judgment on the antichrists?

Because making a judgment on a single person is not the same as a
judgment on a whole people, just because they belong to that set of
people. Maybe I gave you too much credit. You're so blinded by hate you
really don't get it!
>
> > >
> > > Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> > > Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman
Wise...
> > > Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People,
Selected
> > > Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> > > Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
> > >
> > > "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> > > Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> > > of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> > > Christianity....".
> > >
> > > Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> > > the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> > > the Father? (1John 2:22-23)
> >
> > No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
> > believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
> > which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart
and
> > will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
> > judge these matters, not you.
> >
> Tells us!?....who are "us"?

The public audience of this group, who else. Or are you going to go
conspiratorial on us.
>
> Now if you direct me to the Scriptures concerning the Muslim,
> Bhuddist, Hindu, etc. I would be more than happy to oblige...

Why, you didn't direct us to any Scripture on Jews? What you should be
happy to do is repent and change your ways.

> because the word of God says to expose the evil deeds of
> darkness...which is something you do not want to do...it's
> called fear....

God did not make you judge and you should worry about your own evil
deeds.
>
>
>  >
> > > Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> > > you think he kept it all to himself?
> >
> > It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
> > poisonous as what you market.
> >
>
> To deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God isn't "poisonous"?!...
> but to expose those who deny Him is?...

To set yourself up as God is wrong, and there is nothing to expose,
since all religions are not required to believe what you believe. Worry
about your own salvation. You don't enhance your chances by hating
others.

>
> All I am doing is trying to expose their God hating
> practices....of course it is okay as far as you are
> concerned...for them to hate my Saviour...the Lord
> Jesus Christ....just as long as no one offends one
> of the God haters...

People who have different views from your's are not God haters. Look to
yourself, and stop hating as you do. Their views of your God are
irrelevant, just as are your views of their's.

>
> "He that is not with me is against me; and he that
> gathereth not with me scattereth". Luke 11:23
>
> "And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is
> not against us is for us". Luke 9:50

And Jews are not against you, therefore forbid them not!

>
> > You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
> > their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
> > mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to
practice
> > as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
> > unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.
> >

> I've given my two or three witnesses....
>
> Are these the lies you are referring too....the rest of
> this post are the Scriptures you cut out of the first
> post because YOU CAN NOT AND WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEM!

One can find passages in scripture to support many things. The devil is
expert at it. There is no support in the Bible for your hatred, because
it is mindless and uncharitable. The way you practice Christianity is a
profanation in my opinion, and you would do well to look to yourself as
requiring much work to honor God.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:34:55 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=763
> Hi all!
>  jsavage wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Charles wrote:
> > > >
> > > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > > > them before me."
> > > > >
> > > > > nuff said!
> > > >
> > > > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > > > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with
mindless
> > > > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
> > belonging
> > > > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> > > as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> > > neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27
> >
> > These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.
>
> Why not?

Read them.
>
> >
> > >
> > > In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> > > father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> > > ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....
> >
> > This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
> > rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
> > groups rather that individuals?
>
> OH!...who is Jesus Christ speaking to in John 8:44? I always
> thought the context was found in vs 48....Would you show me
> the correct context....

Why don't you answer your own question?
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> > > would rather not read those passages because we
> > > can't answer them....
> >
> > Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered?
>
> Then you give me the correct interpretation of those passages.
> I am always willing to learn...

Better you should give us yours, you cited them.
>
>
> You are a
> > disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
> > outcast from mainstream religion.
>
> When one can not deal with the subject matter they
> always turn on the person and try to discredit them...
>

That would be your technique, only you apply to whole groups of people.
>
>
> > You better hope the judgment rendered
> > upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
> > innocent people.
> >
>
> "innocent people"?....such as??

Jews
>
> I already know the judgment that will be rendered upon me!

Nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:37:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

Ramon, the word is principle.

Philip Mathews

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=765
> Wille,
>        Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE
still
> want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those
who
> would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you
through
> contentious actions.
>
> Your Brother as always ,
> Ramon
>
> Thought for the Day:
>
> "The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"
>
> R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: History/My Turf
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:58:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=769
> I had said:
> Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
> imposed gun control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to
go to
> war against Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour
> Declaration. Benjamin Freedman exposed that.
> ~~~~~~~
> Little Phil said:
>
> You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
> that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
> Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
> declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
> responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I haven't had the chance yet to send Phil's stuff to trash yet,
but
> after this, I'm directing it all there. For the sake of the list, and
of
> historical accuracy, I will answer this barbarian's question:

In other words, having recognized that you've gotten in way over your
head, you will attempt a graceful retreat.

>
> The Jews are a tribe who think in terms of collective interests. They
are
> the ones who flooded Germany with filth, prostitution, and the like.
The
> Weimar Republic was full of Jews.

Unsupported nonsense. There were 500,000 Jews in Germany, most had been
their for 400 years and made a great contribution to the culture.

 FDR, as Under Secretary of the Navy, and
> Churchill, in colloboration with Zionists, arranged the Lusitania to
be
> filled to the max with war arnaments to be used against Germany. The
Germans
> warned against doing this openly, but it happened anyway and Germany
> torpedoed the boat. It sunk with 1,195 lives losts. The wreck has
since been
> found underwater filled with explosives which caused the ship to
sink. But
> the sinking of the Lusitania gave the Judenited States an excuse to
go to
> war against Germany on Britain's side for the sake of Zionists
getting the
> Balfour Declaration in conjunction with the British seeking a Middle
East
> influence.

All lies. You can cite no evidence for your charge on the Luisitania,
just hysterical allegations. FDR in his position would have had no
power to make such decisions in any event. Balfour and Jews had nothing
to do with our entry into WWI and interestingly enough, you offer no
evidence of that connection. Except of course unless your trying to
make people believe the old canard about Roosevelt being Jewish! You're
not that out of it, are you?

 So, here we have the Germans, British, and Americans going to
> war, and the Zionists just sitting in the wings watching the blood
shed. But
> what does one expect? A Zionist serves the God of War and of Money
and of
> Domination.

You shown no connection to Zionists, but by all means smear away hater.

>
> As for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, little Phil forgets what the
Judenited
> States did. I call it that because, for one, the "Federal Reserve"
which is
> not a government body is owned and controlled by Jews.

Another lie. But once you go down that road, you must continue.

 Jewish Rothschild
> even said he didn't care what the government was as long as he could
control
> the money of the nation which would influence its direction.

He had nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. I assume your going to
return to Pearly Harbor and the Japanese attack sometime this week!

 By the way,
> Rothschild is a name change from a Jewish name, just like Rockefeller
is.

I knew it! The Rockefeller family is not Jewish.

>
> Anyway, FDR put an embargo on Japan, and Japan tried to negotiate to
stop
> this embargo. This embargo was an act of war on the part of FDR, and
> therefore, Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was actually a retaliation.

It was not an act of war, and was never described by the Japanese as
such. You're merely trying desperately to find an excuse for Japan's
attack on the U.S. Japan started war with the U.S.

It was
> the excuse that the Judenited States needed to go to war against
Germany
> because Germany and Japan had their treaties.

Nonsense. The trade issues you reference were in place some time before
the war started in Europe. It had nothing to do with the European
situation.

It is known in Polish embassy
> documents that FDR was looking for a European war in the early
1930's, and
> the Pearl Harbor attack was the impetus to it.

Unsupported nonsense. There is no such Polish  document, or you could
refer to it.

> ~~~~~~~
> I had said:
> As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
> they got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
> counting the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church
and the
> Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.
> ~~~~~~~

>
> Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
> for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
> have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
> II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of
Europe.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Now look at this, list. I never said a thing about the National
> Socialists murdering millions of Jews. I said they "deserved" what
they got,
> and that was expulsion from Germany under the Third Reich. That is
all I
> meant by it. I only feel that way because of what Jews do to a
nation: they
> lower its moral tone, dominate everything they can get their hands
on,
> control whole parliaments and congresses.

What an insecure hater you are! Jews enriched Germany substantially. A
group of race hating madmen tried to wipe them out and ruined Germany
in the process. The Holocaust involved all European Jews, with only a
tiny percentage of them being Germans. What happened to the 6 million
missing European Jews?

 I am aware there are those among
> them not directly involved in these things, but as long as they stick
> together and think collectively, they are all complicit.

They think no more collectively than any other defined group of people
who have had to endure centuries of hatred from people like you.

 Therefore, it is
> always to our benefit that they are removed from our civilization to
go live
> somewhere just amongst themselves where they can prey on each other
and
> leave us alone.

It is to the benefit of haters and those who envy success of other
cultures.

>> I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
> >that mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
>> together, they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more
interested in
> >the interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
> ~~~~~~~

>
> Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
> most basic of Christian values.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I have true Shemitic blood in me, so that makes Phil an
anti-Shemite.

Typical moronic reply. All human's have the same blood. It all came
from the hand of the same Lord.

 I
> also have royal blood in me as well, natural and spiritual.

Whatever that means!

> Phil is a Khazar from Japheth's line. He's just interloping on my
turf, and
> how dare he do this?

JM likes to spout mindless doctrine of a fringe group of Christians who
no little of Biblical history and swallow this Khazar nonsense because
it satisfies a deep psychological need which typifies people who think
this way.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:30:13 -0700
From: "Yuriy Kirienko" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Philnancy:

Do not bother to write me an answer. I would rather talk
to a parrot than a Jew.  You are incapable of anything but
false accusations of what you yourself are or do. Do not
waste your time for I would erase your messages without
reading. Your garbage has no credit with me.

Jews did that all their history and for his constant false
accusations devil was thrown out of heaven. That message
below has no substance and is another bout of idiotic
Jewish lies and false accusations.

Willie, kick him out because he and his "opinions" are
devoid of meaning and substance. They are worthless
waste of time to read.

Yuriy Kirienko

-----Original Message-----
From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
Sent: September 03, 1999 10:57
To: 13texan@egroups.com
Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS

Y. Kirienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> Willie:
>
> I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
> before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
> of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
judgment of their fellow man.

>
> When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.

>
> That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as such.

>
> The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.

False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all of
them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
facade built on lies and hate.

 They had
> to prove their allegation but Jews never do.

Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.

 They always commit
> a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> being anti-Semitic.

Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
your charges?

Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
> serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> the judges.

The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
>
> They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> hear them.

You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
convoluted thinking which you have displayed.

During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish to
stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 17:12:45 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
> Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
> have nothing to offer us.

Interesting. A polite discussion of history, in a group formally identified by
its creator as a "history discussion group," results in personal insults.

Perhaps it is easier to resort to ad hominem than it is to deal with succinct
questions about history... it is more embarrassing, of course, because it
reveals those who avoid responding to polite questions as something other than
seekers of historical knowledge.

I am not Jewish. I do not even know any people who are Jewish. I am simply one
citizen who is not content to accept pronouncements about history which are so
patently false, as are those made here by many, including you, David.

I'm ok with your inability to deal with open discussion, as long as you are.
People can watch you run and draw their own conclusions.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:06:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Y. Kurienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=776
> Philnancy:
>
> Do not bother to write me an answer. I would rather talk
> to a parrot than a Jew.

I don't have the slightest concern what you would rather.

 You are incapable of anything but
> false accusations of what you yourself are or do.

You are describing yourself, as has been shown.

> Do not
> waste your time for I would erase your messages without
> reading. Your garbage has no credit with me.

Of course, because you are incapable of dealing with having your
nonsense rebutted. It demonstrates the shallowness of your beliefs.

>
> Jews did that all their history and for his constant false
> accusations devil was thrown out of heaven.

More idiotic nonsense. Stop hiding beyond God to justify your mindless
hatred. You may delude yourself, but He knows what you are.

 That message
> below has no substance and is another bout of idiotic
> Jewish lies and false accusations.

Sure, that's why you are unable to deal with it.
>
> Willie, kick him out because he and his "opinions" are
> devoid of meaning and substance. They are worthless
> waste of time to read.

In other words, protect me Willie, he's got me pegged and I don't know
how to answer!  How typical of lying antisemites.

Philip Mathews

>
> Yuriy Kirienko
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
> Sent: September 03, 1999 10:57
> To: 13texan@egroups.com
> Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
>
>
> Y. Kirienko wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > Willie:
> >
> > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
said
> > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
position
> > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
>
> It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
> judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
> on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
> own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
> spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
> on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> judgment of their fellow man.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
>
> You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
> fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
> you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
>
>
> >
> > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
>
> We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
> the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
such.
>
>
> >
> > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
>
> False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
of
> them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
> distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
> easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> facade built on lies and hate.
>
>
>
>
>  They had
> > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
>
> Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.
>
>  They always commit
> > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > being anti-Semitic.
>
> Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
> in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
> your charges?
>
>
> Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
any
> > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > the judges.
>
> The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
> >
> > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > hear them.
>
> You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
>
>
> During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
> as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
to
> stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
>
> Philip Mathews
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:46:13 -0700
From: reiver@tca.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

reive-@tca.net wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=770
> Y. Kirienko wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > Willie:
> >
> > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
said
> > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
position
> > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
>
> It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
> judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
> on nonsense.

REIV: And Androgyne is NOT judging? Just look at the foregoing
sentence: You are only a "Christian" when Andro has determined and
declared that you are not a Christian.

> Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
> own opinions, but not to their own facts.

REIV: Then Andro is not entitled to it's own facts, which is very
convenient,
and is likely the reason that the majority of it's posts contain
primarily  pronouncements of "truth" which are little more than
uninformed opinion. Requests for evidence from opponents are frequent,
and serve only to distract.

I will not parse the remainder of Andro's post, but will leave it
intact for any who care to examine it and thereby determine just who is
being judgemental here.  It is obvious, and one can only conclude that
Andro is a fraud.

Andro is not here to save anybody, or to promote anything good.
Disruption is the only purpose in life for such creatures.  Shall we
concede defeat, by abandoning this list and fleeing to another?  Or
should we further our goals by using Andro as an example?  You know -
that's what is being done against this list.

All these posts are archived on this website.  Andro has given us
plenty of ammunition to use against the enemy.  We have generated
plenty enough for our enemies by consistently responding to Andro's
posts.  We should ignore them.

The psychology of our enemy's argumentation is exemplified by Andro's
style, and we should learn this and pass it on to others, rather than
allow ourselves to be baited and toyed with. When we allow them to goad
us, they gloat all over the place.  We need to be wise as serpents.

The encroaching police state; the NWO - whatever you want to call it -
is all the proof we need that our enemies are liars, and cannot enforce
their beliefs except by tyranny.  In spite of Andro's bullshit to the
contrary, Andro wants to see you destroyed.

Ignore these creatures.  They are wasting your time.

Reiv



> It is clear you prefer to
> spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
> on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> judgment of their fellow man.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
>
> You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
> fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
> you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
>
>
> >
> > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
>
> We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
> the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
such.
>
>
> >
> > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
>
> False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
of
> them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
> distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
> easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> facade built on lies and hate.
>
>
>
>
>  They had
> > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
>
> Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.
>
>  They always commit
> > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > being anti-Semitic.
>
> Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
> in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
> your charges?
>
>
> Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
any
> > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > the judges.
>
> The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
> >
> > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > hear them.
>
> You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
>
>
> During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
> as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
to
> stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
>
> Philip Mathews
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:27:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=779
> reive-@tca.net wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=770
> > Y. Kirienko wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > > Willie:
> > >
> > > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
> said
> > > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
> position
> > > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
> >
> > It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing
the
> > judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people
based
> > on nonsense.
>
> REIV: And Androgyne is NOT judging? Just look at the foregoing
> sentence: You are only a "Christian" when Andro has determined and
> declared that you are not a Christian.

Come, come, your intelligent enough to make distinctions aren't you?
Judging entire groups of people, based exclusively on their belonging
to those groups, is not the same as judging individuals, based on their
conduct. The hate and lies of the poster are demonstrable, unlike the
lies told about Jews as a group.

>
> > Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> > avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to
their
> > own opinions, but not to their own facts.
>
>
> REIV: Then Andro is not entitled to it's own facts, which is very
> convenient,
> and is likely the reason that the majority of it's posts contain
> primarily  pronouncements of "truth" which are little more than
> uninformed opinion.

No, that silly statement is an example of that.  So Andro exhibits it
knows little about what it speaks.

 Requests for evidence from opponents are frequent,
> and serve only to distract.

HEHEHE. Sure, asking you to support outrageous, hateful lies is
terribly inconvenient. You'd rather spout nonsense without challenge.
Tough.

>
> I will not parse the remainder of Andro's post, but will leave it
> intact for any who care to examine it and thereby determine just who
is
> being judgemental here.  It is obvious, and one can only conclude that
> Andro is a fraud.

One can only conclude poor reading comprehension and childish
argumentation to riev, who has contributed nothing to the discussion. I
suppose you call yourself a Christian as well?

>
> Andro is not here to save anybody, or to promote anything good.

Unsupported assertion. I'm here to discuss history, but you and yours
are here to smear and malign Jews because you are filled with hate.

> Disruption is the only purpose in life for such creatures.  Shall we
> concede defeat, by abandoning this list and fleeing to another?  Or
> should we further our goals by using Andro as an example?  You know -
> that's what is being done against this list.

You and others are afraid to discuss history, which is the topic of
this list. The only example that is being made is that fact.

>
> All these posts are archived on this website.  Andro has given us
> plenty of ammunition to use against the enemy.  We have generated
> plenty enough for our enemies by consistently responding to Andro's
> posts.  We should ignore them.

There you go again, seeing enemies everywhere. Do you ever choke on all
that hate? You should ask Him for guidance, you need it.

>
> The psychology of our enemy's argumentation is exemplified by Andro's
> style, and we should learn this and pass it on to others, rather than
> allow ourselves to be baited and toyed with. When we allow them to
goad
> us, they gloat all over the place.  We need to be wise as serpents.

It is you and yours who are doing the goading. Your ability to stand
reality on its head is interesting - doomed to failure - but
interesting.

>
> The encroaching police state; the NWO - whatever you want to call it -
> is all the proof we need that our enemies are liars, and cannot
enforce
> their beliefs except by tyranny.

There is no encroaching police state; the desire of most on this group
to muzzle people they don't agree with shows you're not really
concerned with police state, but are merely using those words for
propoganda affect.

  In spite of Andro's bullshit to the
> contrary, Andro wants to see you destroyed.

You lie without shame, but He knows.

>
> Ignore these creatures.  They are wasting your time.

It is you who are wasting people's time, not to mention your
relationship with God.

Philip Mathews

> > It is clear you prefer to
> > spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand
reality
> > on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> > judgment of their fellow man.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
> >
> > You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> > respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now?
Your
> > fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's
why
> > you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> > views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people.
Only a
> > > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
> >
> > We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because
of
> > the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
> such.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
> >
> > False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
> of
> > them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing
to
> > distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind
of
> > easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> > objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> > facade built on lies and hate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  They had
> > > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
> >
> > Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> > controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in
China.
> >
> >  They always commit
> > > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > > being anti-Semitic.
> >
> > Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews
committed
> > in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> > million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back
up
> > your charges?
> >
> >
> > Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
> any
> > > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > > the judges.
> >
> > The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> > the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> > historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More
distortion.
> > >
> > > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > > hear them.
> >
> > You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> > convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
> >
> >
> > During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more
opinions
> > as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
> to
> > stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
> >
> > Philip Mathews
> >
>

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Subject: [13texan] The Talmud
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:32:42 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

 The following are some articles written in the Talmud
 concerning the Gentile:
 Only Jews are Human.Gentiles are animals
 (Baba Mezia 114a-114b)
 For Murder, whether of a Cuthean(Gentile) by a Cuthean,
 or of an Israelite, there is no death penalty.
 (Sanhedran 57a)
 If a heathen(Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed.
 Hitting a Jew is hitting God.
 (Sanhedrin 58b)
 Jews may use lies('subterfuges') to circumvent a Gentile.
 (Baba Kamma 113a)
 All Gentile children are annimals.
 (Yebamonth 98a)
 Gentiles prefer Sex with cows.
 (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)
The Vessles of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
 flavor to food cooked in them? (Abodah Zorah 67b)

These are just a few of the writings of the Jew and their
holy book the Talmud. The Talmud's words are vitriolic. A
person who would read Mien Kampf and the Talmud would find
the Talmud far more intolerant.

St. John 8:13
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] View of the Jews
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:14:50 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

 One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones. Here
are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
articles that he had written:
 They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
(Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
Gentile....
(Weimar 53 pages 489-491)

"Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
(Weimar 32,pg 286)

You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
Changlings and abortions. If they could kill us all they
would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
February 1546.
(Erlanger 62, pg. 189)

Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
what he had read in the Talmud.

Michael Snead
14/88



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Subject: [13texan] Goodwill and Brutality
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:44:03 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   The thought came to me about the difference
between the holiday celebrations of the Christians
and that of the Jews. The Christians celebrate
Christmas and Easter. Christmas officially marks
the birth of our Savior and celebrates the desire
for peace on earth goodwill towards men. Easter a
more somber occasion represents the promise of
universal salvation through the ressurection of
Jesus Christ.
   The Jews on the other hand celebrate Hanukkah
the celebration of victory over King Antiochus lV
of Seria. The celebration of the Passover is when
the spirit of death descended into the homes of
the Egyptians, killing the firstborn male in all
of Egypt from newborn to ederly. Then the Feast
of Lots, called Purim, celebrates the Jewish
massacre of thousands of Persians along with Haman
and his ten sons. The festivities also include


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Subject: [13texan] Goodwill and Brutality
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:49:33 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   The thought came to me about the difference
between the holiday celebrations of the Christians
and that of the Jews. The Christians celebrate
Christmas and Easter. Christmas officially marks
the birth of our Savior and celebrates the desire
for peace on earth goodwill towards men. Easter a
more somber occasion represents the promise of
universal salvation through the ressurection of
Jesus Christ.
   The Jews on the other hand celebrate Hanukkah
the celebration of victory over King Antiochus lV
of Seria. The celebration of the Passover is when
the spirit of death descended into the homes of
the Egyptians, killing the firstborn male in all
of Egypt from newborn to ederly. Then the Feast
of Lots, called Purim, celebrates the Jewish
massacre of thousands of Persians along with Haman
and his ten sons. The festivities also includes eating
a three sided cookie with meat inside symbolic of Haman's
ear and the meat symbolic of Haman's beaten flesh.
   I personally do not have to wonder why, throughout
history, the Jews have been treated the way they have been.
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:12:27 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: sneadster@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] View of the Jews
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:14:50 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-753-david_223 Fri Sep 03 21:14:25 1999
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>
>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
>and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones. Here
>are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
>articles that he had written:
>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
>Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
>(Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
>Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
>shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
>Gentile....
>(Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
>
>"Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
>i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
>afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
>them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
>be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
>(Weimar 32,pg 286)
>
>You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
>the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
>enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
>they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
>son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
>Changlings and abortions. If they could kill us all they
>would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
>Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
>February 1546.
>(Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
>
>Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
>what he had read in the Talmud.
>
>Michael Snead
>14/88

Yes, Michael....blessed Luther was so right...he had read the Jews
perfectly......he was not too hard on the Jews....and as he stated, he may
not have been hard enough.......the Jews are the literal children of Satan
(John 8:44), as should be treated as such....our LORD is proud of us when we
hate His enemies....and are there any more of an enemy than the dirty
Jew?....we must make Jesus proud of us...so that on that great day, He will
say...."Well done, my good and faithful servant...come thou into My
kingdom..."

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:37:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=781

>  The following are some articles written in the Talmud
>  concerning the Gentile:

First, the Talmud is not a collection of  articles.  Second, your
contention that these passages refer to Gentiles is incorrect in most
cases.  But let’s look at some of the antisemitic lies you’ve posted.

>  Only Jews are Human.Gentiles are animals
>  (Baba Mezia 114a-114b)

Apparently a deliberate mistranslation. The passage deals with the
technical rules of corpse-impurity which, according to the author of
this text, apply to Jews and not to gentiles. In this connection
Ezekiel 34:31 is cited: "And ye My sheep [referring to Israel], the
sheep of My pasture, are _men [Hebrew: "adam"]_, and I am your God,
saith the Lord God." From a careful midrashic reading of this Biblical
verse, Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai deduced "Only "ye" [i.e., Israel, not
other nations] are designated "adam," in the sense that only Jewish
corpses and graves generate impurity according to Numbers 19:14: "This
is the law: when a _man ['adam']_ dieth in a tent, every one that
cometh into the tent...shall be unclean seven days..." The passage is
legal and exegetical, not theological. If anything, it seems to put
Jews on a lower footing than non-Jews. Typically, the words "but
beasts" were added on by whoever put this list together. They do not
appear in the original.

>  For Murder, whether of a Cuthean(Gentile) by a Cuthean,
>  or of an Israelite, there is no death penalty.
>  (Sanhedran 57a)

(a) It hardly needs be said that the Talmud does not state that Jews
may rob or kill non-Jews. It may be appropriate to make a few general
comments about the Talmudic view of murder.

Taking the life of any human being is forbidden. The Talmud teaches
that this prohibition was first declared in Genesis and applies to all
mankind. Everyone, Jew and non-Jew alike, commits a grievous sin if he
takes the life of another human being. The Talmud teaches: "Therefore
Adam was created alone in the world [i.e. humanity started from a
single individual] to teach that whoever destroys one person, it is
considered as if he has destroyed an entire world, and whoever saves
one person, it is considered as if he has saved an entire world, and to
establish peace among all creatures so that no one will say 'my ancestor
was greater than your ancestor' ..." (TY Sanhedrin 22). A similar
teaching regarding the enormity of the crime of murder was learned by
the sages from an analysis of the biblical text describing the murder
of Abel by Cain (Gen. 4:10): "The blood of your brother cries out to Me
..". The word 'blood' can be understood as plural in the original
Hebrew text and the rabbis teach that the reference is to both "his
[Abel's] blood and the blood of his descendants". These Talmudic
teachings have been largely
absorbed by all civilized nations.

It may be of interest to quote the words used by the ancient rabbinical
courts to caution witnesses before they testified concerning capital
offenses (the following quotation is based on the Rambam, Hilchot
Sanhedrin  12,3, who based his ruling on Talmudic teachings):

".. know that [in case of execution by false testimony] his blood and
the blood of his descendants to the end of all time [will be upon the
false testifier] ... that is why Adam was created a single person in
the world to teach that whoever destroys a single person from this
world is deemed to have destroyed an entire world ..... behold all
people who walk on this earth were created in the form of Adam .... the
faces of every one of them is different from that of his fellow man and
therefore each one can say 'the world was created on my account' ..."

While murder of any kind is strictly forbidden, the Talmudic passage
quoted above deals only with the issue of capital punishment. The
biblical system of capital punishment was not designed for social order
or social regulation in the modern sense. Even when rabbinical courts
held the power to impose capital punishment the rules surrounding such
punishment were so difficult to apply that there was essentially no
effective death penalty under Talmudic law. No capital punishment could
be imposed unless there were two witnesses who actually viewed the
crime and each other at the same time.

Furthermore the perpetrator had to be warned that he was about to
commit a capital offense (according to one opinion the warning had to
state which one of the four types of biblical execution would be
performed). The offender had to verbally acknowledge that he was going
to commit the offense with the intent of becoming liable for capital
punishment, and then immediately commit the act. If the offender merely
acknowledged that he knew about the death penalty he would not be
liable to capital punishment.

These and other restrictions on the use of the death penalty were
learned by the sages from an analysis of the biblical verses applicable
to capital punishment. Another restriction learned was that in case of
murder the victim had to be either a Jew or a Canaanite slave belonging
to a Jew and this point is raised tangentially in this passage of the
Talmud: "for bloodshed, a Cuthean to a Cuthean is liable [for capital
punishment], a Cuthean to an Israelite is liable [for capital
punishment], and an Israelite to a Cuthean is exempt [from biblical
capital punishment, but such an act is strictly prohibited and is
punished by Heaven
commentators].

This does not mean that there was no capital punishment in Talmudic
times, but such punishment was imposed by the king who acted within a
framework of values different from that of the sages of the Talmud. His
concern was revenge, order and deterrence, not the question of precise
interpretation of biblical verses which was the concern of the sages of
the Talmud. If the king did not use his prerogative to execute
murderers the rabbinical courts also had the power to impose
non-biblical capital punishment on murderers who were not liable to
capital punishment because of the various restrictions of the type
discussed above, but since these matters were dealt with on an ad hoc
basis there is almost no discussion of them in the Talmud.

It must be clear however that the prohibition against murder applies to
all people, Jew and non-Jew alike, and even applies to the wildest of
pagans. This prohibition predates the giving of the Torah and is one of
the Noahide commandments and is repeated in the biblical commandment
not to murder.

(b) 'What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep'. There is no such
statement on this page or anywhere else in the Talmud. In the framework
of discussion of the source verse for the prohibition against theft the
Talmud here notes that the verse which applies to Gentiles and forbids
them from stealing does not apply to Jews. Jews are forbidden from
stealing from Gentiles by other verses or by rabbinical ordinances.

>  If a heathen(Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed.
>  Hitting a Jew is hitting God.
>  (Sanhedrin 58b)

Misquote. The text doesn't say that he must be killed but that he's
worthy of death -- an idiomatic phrase referring to death by the hand
of god (struck by lightning etc.). That's because by hitting a man
(made in the image of God) you are marring the image of God. The same
is also said of Jews who simply raise their hand against others, by the
way.

>  Jews may use lies('subterfuges') to circumvent a Gentile.
>  (Baba Kamma 113a)

The passage discusses robbers (such as tax collectors who acted beyond
their legal authority) who have stolen property. The question that
arises is whether it is permitted to use subterfuge to circumvent their
thievery. In a long legal discussion, the entire thrust of which is
that any form of stealing from heathens is forbidden, the following
statement is brought forward for consideration: "we use subterfuges to
circumvent him [a heathen; this is one opinion] ... but Rabbi Akiva
said that we should not attempt to circumvent him on account of the
sanctification of the Name". The Talmud continues and notes that Rabbi
Akiva forbids subterfuges not only on account of desecration of G-d's
name, but also because theft from a non-Jew is absolutely forbidden by
biblical law. The Talmud continues to explain that even the opinion
which is rejected does not condone outright theft which is absolutely
forbidden according to all opinions.

The Talmudic passage here is a well-known one which makes the point
that the "law of the land is the law", that is, the civil and
commercial law of the nations in which Jews reside is binding on them.

The conclusions to be drawn from this passage, as noted by the
commentator Meiri, some 700 years ago are as follows:

"We find that it is forbidden to steal even from idol worshippers and
those who do not have any kind of legal system and if a Jew is sold to
them [as a slave] it is forbidden for him to leave their service
without payment, and it is forbidden to refrain from repaying a loan
received from them but one is not required to expend efforts to find
and return their lost articles, and in fact one who simply finds their
lost articles is not required to return them .... since return of lost
articles is an act of extraordinary kindness [in places where
'finders-keepers' is the rule] and we are not required to show this
extraordinary kindness to those who live without laws, but in any event
... in the case of a lost article it should be returned if there is any
chance of desecration of G-d's name by failing to do so .... but for
all those who have any kind of legal and religious system at all of any
type even though their faith is far from our own, they are not
[referred to] in these laws, rather they are in all respects as Jews
for these matters, both as to lost articles, or to mistakes and to all
the other matters without exception."

>  All Gentile children are annimals.
>  (Yebamonth 98a)

Such statements do not exist. On this page the Talmud considers whether
converts are considered relatives of their biological kin from the
point of view of enforcing upon them the strictures of Jewish law
regarding forbidden marriages. The Talmud quotes one lenient opinion
(in the end rejected) to the effect that these strictures should not
apply to converts because their blood relationship before marriage is
not considered to carry over to their new status as Jews. In the manner
of the agada this ruling was pinned on the verse in Ezekiel (23;20)
"... for their flesh is as the flesh of donkeys ..." a verse which
applies to Jews and non-Jews.

>  Gentiles prefer Sex with cows.
>  (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)

Tractate Avoda Zara (literally Tractate Idol Worship) deals with
relations with pagans and idol worshippers, particularly those who
still engaged in barbaric and immoral behavior. Such behavior is
prohibited to all people and Jews are not allowed to aid or facilitate
such immoral behavior.

In Avoda Zara 22a-22b there is a discussion concerning whether animals
could be left in the care of pagans for safekeeping in cases where
there was a suspicion that the pagans would engage in sexual relations
with such  animals. The text quotes several sages who witnessed such
grossly immoral behavior and the statement is made that 'they [such
pagans] prefer .. animals ... to their wives'. These sages ruled that
it was therefore forbidden to leave animals in the care of pagans.

The general conclusion of the Talmud is that despite such isolated
cases of sodomy there was no reason even to suspect that the pagans
would engage in such crudities.

> The Vessles of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
>  flavor to food cooked in them? (Abodah Zorah 67b)

In this comment Rabbi Meir is speaking of the fact that if residual
flavour (e.g. from spices) is left in a cooking vessel and it is used
within 24 hours, then that flavour will be imparted into the food that
is next cooked in it. If left greater than 24 hours, then the flavour
will be worse as the food will have started to decompose. This point is
used to prove that even when a vessel is visibly clean, that foodstuff
is still absorbed in it. Gentiles have no need to keep kosher, and
therefore their vessels will not be kosher according to the above logic
(since the non-kosher flavour that is absorbed in them will be released
into the food). It has nothing whatever to do with the denigration of
gentiles - it is simply a recognition that Jews keep kosher and should
therefore use kosher vessels and that Gentiles have no need or
requirement to do so.

>
> These are just a few of the writings of the Jew and their
> holy book the Talmud. The Talmud's words are vitriolic. A
> person who would read Mien Kampf and the Talmud would find
> the Talmud far more intolerant.

Only if that individual was a Jew hater who posted in public email
groups well known and long debunked lies about the Talmud. You know
nothing about the Talmud, and yet are more than willing to post any
nonsense you find on antisemitic websites to further your smearing
attacks on Jews. Do you think the Lord supports such behavior?

Philip Mathews

>
> St. John 8:13
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:48:11 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.

Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.

 Here
> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
> articles that he had written:
>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
> Gentile....
> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)

Which is a lie.

>
> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
> (Weimar 32,pg 286)

He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater in
his antisemitic diatribes.

>
> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
> Changlings and abortions.

This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.

If they could kill us all they
> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
> February 1546.
> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)

More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as it
maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!

>
> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
> what he had read in the Talmud.

And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud, which
I have exposed as the canard they are.

Philip Mathews

>
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:16:47 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:48 AM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
>Snead wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
>>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
>> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.
>
>Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.
>
>
> Here
>> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
>> articles that he had written:
>>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
>> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
>> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
>> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
>> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
>> Gentile....
>> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
>
>Which is a lie.
>
>>
>> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
>> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
>> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
>> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
>> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
>> (Weimar 32,pg 286)
>
>He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater in
>his antisemitic diatribes.
>
>
>>
>> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
>> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
>> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
>> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
>> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
>> Changlings and abortions.
>
>This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.
>
>
>
>
>If they could kill us all they
>> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
>> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
>> February 1546.
>> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
>
>More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as it
>maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!
>
>
>>
>> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
>> what he had read in the Talmud.
>
>And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud, which
>I have exposed as the canard they are.

You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you all,
each and everyday. You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken
or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

>
>Philip Mathews

>>
>> Michael Snead
>> 14/88

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:56:18 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=788
> At 09:48 AM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
> >Snead wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
> >>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
> >> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.
> >
> >Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.
> >
> >
> > Here
> >> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
> >> articles that he had written:
> >>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
> >> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
> >> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
> >> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
> >> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
> >> Gentile....
> >> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
> >
> >Which is a lie.
> >
> >>
> >> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
> >> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
> >> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
> >> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
> >> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
> >> (Weimar 32,pg 286)
> >
> >He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater
in
> >his antisemitic diatribes.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
> >> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
> >> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
> >> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
> >> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
> >> Changlings and abortions.
> >
> >This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >If they could kill us all they
> >> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
> >> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
> >> February 1546.
> >> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
> >
> >More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as
it
> >maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
> >> what he had read in the Talmud.
> >
> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
which
> >I have exposed as the canard they are.
>
>
> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
all,
> each and everyday.

A typical Kadach lie. Most of these points cited from Luther are the
same as appeared in Snead's post on the Talmud. Read my response and
learn something besides what is taught at your hate meetings.

 You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
mistaken
> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
>

You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith as a
whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you Kadach!

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

>
> Racialist regards,
>
> Ed Kadach
>
>
>
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> >>
> >> Michael Snead
> >> 14/88
>
>
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:06:11 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
but not the hater.
   The followiing are some of the past Popes'
thought's  on the Talmud:
***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
doctrine."
***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
Religion with daily increasing audacity."
***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
   Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
eminently defended?
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] More on the Talmud by Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:36:14 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the
necessity to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the
Talmud are repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he
has woke so hard to write.

THE TALMUD
                   1 of 28

The Talmud: Judaism's holiest book documented and exposed:
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence over the
Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself,
Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of
the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)." The
supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also be seen
in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more knowledge of
the Old Testament than the Israelis.

    However, their religion is so ancient it pre-dates the Scribes Talmud, of
which they have no knowledge. According to the N.Y. Times of Sept. 29, 1992,
p.4: "The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further than the
Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the basis
of modern traditions never came their way." Because they don't traffic in
Talmudic traditions, the Black Ethiopians are discriminated against and have
been forbidden to perform marriages, funerals and other services in the
Israeli state.

    Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most influential
rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox Judaism and
the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law).
Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than 2,000
rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.

    N.Y. Times religion reporter Ari Goldman described the basis of the
rabbis authority: "Soloveitchik came from a long line of distinguished
Talmudic scholars...Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost
exclusively to the study of the Talmud...He came to Yeshiva University's
Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent teacher in
the Talmud...He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of Talmud...sitting
with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of the
Talmud."

    Nowhere does Goldman refer to Soloveitchiks knowledge of the Bible as the
basis for being one of the top world authorities on Jewish law. The rabbis
credentials are predicated upon his mastery of the Talmud. All other studies
are clearly secondary. Britains Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993 states
that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud to the
exclusion of everything else."

    The Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses
gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus time.
Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who
taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because it nullified Biblical teachings.

    The famous warning of Our Lord about the tradition that voids Scripture
(Mark 7:13), which is regularly used against Catholicism by Protestants, is
actually a direct reference to the Talmud or more properly, the forerunner of
the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during Christ*s
lifetime, before being committed to writing. All of Mark chapter 7, from
verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord*s pointed condemnation of the
Mishnah.

    Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the widespread
Christian notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of Judaism.
But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of
rabbis, not God; the Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their supreme law
and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said, void
the laws of God, not uphold them. As a reader of Talmud (in the rabbinically
authorized Soncino version) I know this to be true.

    There is a small Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to eschew
Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites, a most
hated and severely persecuted group within Judaism.

    To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical
commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two versions,
the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud is
regarded as the authoritative version:  "The authority of the Babylonian
Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt
the former is decisive." (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to Kabbalah: A
Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40)

    This study is based on the Jewish-authorized, English translation of the
Babylonian Talmud: the Soncino edition. Every selection we cite is documented
directly from the text of the authoritative Soncino Talmud. We have published
herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up for
yourself. To verify the Talmud passages cited, refer to the Soncino edition
Talmud, which may be found in large university and seminary libraries. The
Soncino Talmud may also be purchased from book dealers. Translations: The
translators of the Talmud sometimes translate the Hebrew word goyim
(Gentiles) under any number of terms such as heathen, Cuthean, Egyptian,
idolater etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all non-Jews).
See for example footnote 5 of the Soncino edition Talmud: Cuthean (Samaritan)
was here substituted for the original goy... Christians are sometimes
referred to by the code word Min or Minim.

    It is the standard disinformation practice of the Pharisees to deny the
existence of the following Talmudic scriptures and to claim they are the
fabrications of "anti-Semites." This disinformation can only obtain cachet
among those too lazy to go to the English-language books of the Talmud and
look these passages up for themselves. Hebrew University Professor emeritus
Israel Shahak in his monumental 1994 work, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion"
(London:Pluto Press), has confirmed the malice and racism contained in Talmud.

    Like Prof. Shahak, we publish the following educational material in the
hope of liberating people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, from the
superstitions, hate-mongering and barbarities of Talmud. The implementation
of Talmudic philosophy has caused untold suffering throughout history and now
in occupied Palestine it is used as a justification for the mass murder of
Palestinian civilians. Some Teachings of the Talmud:

    Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be
punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

    Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city
where he is not known and do the evil there.

    Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only
ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of
Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals
("she-asses").

    Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, THE
GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

    Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews.  A Jew need not pay a Christian
("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

    Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an
Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a
Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

    Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews.  If a Jew finds an object
lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also
in Baba Kamma 113b).

    Sanhedrin 76a: God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an
old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a
Cuthean..."

    Sanhedrin 57a: JEWS MAY ROB AND KILL NON-JEWS. When a Jew murders a
Christian ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from
a Gentile he may keep.

    Baba Kamma 37b: Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God
has "exposed their money to Israel."

    Baba Kamma 113a: Jews May Lie to Non-Jews . JEWS MAY USE LIES
("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A GENTILE.

    Yebamoth 98a: Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are
animals.

    Abodah Zarah 36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from
birth.

    Abodah Zarah 22a-22b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

    Abodah Zarah 67b: "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
flavor to the food cooked in them?"

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Subject: [13texan] Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:50:08 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

THE TALMUD
                   2 of 28

    Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus mother was a
whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot
with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in
the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam
the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gloats over Christ Dying Young A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the
early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus)
was?-He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody
and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was
thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

    Sanhedrin 43a . SAYS JESUS WAS A SORCERER.  Jesus ("Yeshu" and in
footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery.

    Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4)
is being boiled "hot excrement".

    Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover,
Yeshu was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be
made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"

    Attacks Christians and their Books Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians
("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished
there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of minim).

    Sanhedrin 90a . Those who read the New Testament (uncanonical books, see
footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

    Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians,
i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

    Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament
books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish
Religion, p. 21).

    Sick and Insane Teachings Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should
take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey
and eat it.

    Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy
way is given.

    Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the
animals in the Garden of Eden.

    Yebamoth 63a . Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

    Sanhedrin 55b . A JEW MAY MARRY A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL (specifically,
three years "and a day" old).

    Sanhedrin 54b . A JEW MAY HAVE SEX WITH A CHILD AS LONG AS THE CHILD IS
LESS THAN NINE YEARS OLD.

    Kethuboth 11b . "WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A LITTLE (three
year old) GIRL IT IS NOTHING BECAUSE HER VIRGINITY WILL GROW BACK."

    Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to
marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to
marry a Jewish priest.

    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that
Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

    Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

    Baba Mezia 59b. A RABBI DEBATES GOD AND DEFEATS HIM. GOD ADMITS THE RABBI
WON THE DEBATE.

    Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet)
a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to
walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time;
if he does, his children will be epileptic."

    Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and were
exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindlers List where the Hollywood director shows a
Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and falling into a
pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two other Jewish children
partially immersed who inform the interloper that this cesspool is their
hiding spot exclusively and that he must find his own. These are the kind of
disgusting and morbid, psychotic images which Jewish kids are exposed to
constantly in the cinematic liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that matter,
in the Talmud as well.

    Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew
should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he
can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dogs excrement as it loosens the
limbs."

    Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass
between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees.
Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a
crossroads.

    Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer
every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.

    Shabbath 86a-86b . Because Jews are holy they do not have sex during the
day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have sex during
the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark.

    Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from
the Talmud: Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the
Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish
children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient
demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world
at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).

    A Revealing Admission Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked of the
rabbi whether some wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was
defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a Gentile
touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that
the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in
Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews

    Pharisaic Rituals Erubin 21b (p. 150). "Rabbi Akiba said to him, "Give me
some water to wash my hands." "It will not suffice for drinking," the other
complained, "will it suffice for washing your hands?" "What can I do? the
former replied, "when for neglecting the words of the Rabbis one deserves
death? It is better that I myself should die than that I transgress against
the opinion of my colleagues."[This is the ritual hand washing condemned by
Jesus in Matthew 15: 1-9].

    "Great Rabbi" Deceives A Woman Kallah 51a (Soncino Minor Tractates).
Teaches that God approves of rabbis who lie: "The elders were once sitting in
the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other
uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that
he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a
child conceived during a womans menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he
is both a bastard and a son of a niddah. "They said, "What induced you to
contradict the opinion of your colleagues?" He replied, "I will prove it
concerning him." He went to the lads mother and found her sitting in the
market selling beans. "He said to her, "My daughter, if you will answer the
question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come." (eternal
life). She said to him, "Swear it to me." Rabbi Akiba, "taking the oath with
his lips but annulling it in his heart," said to her, "What is the status of
your son?" She replied, "When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah
(menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had
intercourse with me and this son was born to me." Consequently the child was
both a bastard and the son of a niddah. It was declared, "..Blessed be the
God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba..."

    In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars the preceding
discussion is actually about Christ (the lad who "uncovered his head"). The
reference to the lad*s mother is of course to the mother of Jesus, Blessed
Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in Talmud).

    Genocide Advocated by Talmud Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This
is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the
best of the Gentiles should all be killed").

    This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original
Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia,
published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the
entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

    This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The
Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has
been altered, The best among the Egyptians being generally substituted." In
the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim
41a-b]. Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of
Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of
non-Jews. ("Jewish Press" of June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

    On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an
orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including
children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of
the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view of Arabs as "dogs" is
"from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS "60 Minutes", "Kahane").

    Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldsteins
philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against
"goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood
and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989,
p.5). Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish
fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

    Judeo-Christian Response to Talmud: Neither the "modern" popes or the
modern preachers of Protestantism, have ever insisted that the rabbis of
Judaism repudiate or condemn the Talmud. On the contrary, the heads of
"Judeo-Churchianity" have urged the followers of Christ to obey, honor and
support the followers of the Talmud. Therefore, it should be obvious that
"Judeo-Churchianity" is the worst betrayer of Jesus Christ on Earth today.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:20:15 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 10:56 AM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:

>> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
>which
>> >I have exposed as the canard they are.

>> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
>> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
>> all, each and everyday.

>> You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
>> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
>> mistaken
>> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
>>

>You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
>mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
>sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith as a
>whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
>willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
>inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
>point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you Kadach!
>
>Regards to a racist,
>
>Philip Mathews

Pastor F. Dowsett put it best regarding our Christian Identity beliefs in a
response
to an attack on "our truths". He said as follows:

"We really should thank the above writer for the free coverage of at least
some aspects of
our  beliefs, in particular, our origins. But isnt it interesting how that
every time the
media decides to have a swipe at us, they bring in the ADC of Bnai Brith,
the Klu Klux Clan, and any other derogatory  organisation and/or belief
they can lay their hands on. When are
they going to  get real? The fact that some members of the "Clan" hold the
same  beliefs as
to our Israel identity does not in any way connect us with them. But
perhaps Mr. Paton
believes that because the Catholic Church has its headquarters  in Rome, we
can now refer to all Catholics as Italians. As to the "seedline" theory,
this is held by a minority of
Identity believers, and totally rejected by the great majority of us. His
comments regarding our alleged beliefs about the black races are as
offensive to us as is his pathetic attempts
to handle and abuse a subject of which he has demonstrably such a  pitiable
lack of knowledge.
We have replied to these accusations many times in  the past, but of
course, good journalists cannot allow facts to interfere with  what they
are told to print. The point that interested
me in particular was the  phone interview to which he referred. I have
never ever spoken to
Mr. Paton,  either personally, or by phone. However, in mid June, I was
phoned by a Mr. Ian Walker, who introduced himself to me as a producer with
the ABC, and during  the course of
this phone conversation, I mentioned that there would be about  1,000
people who read our publication, "The Covenant Vision". The  remaining
comments made by Mr. Paton were fairly accurate in the context of my
conversation with Mr. Walker, but they were never made to Mr. Paton. It
would be interesting to know just how a young reporter from a provincial
newspaper is able to quote from a phone conversation held some two months
previously between myself and an ABC producer. And they accuse us of
believing in conspiracy theories. His follow-up report should be most
interesting. I found  a very interesting passage in the Bible which seems
to me to be fairly appropriate to what is going on as far as the opposition
which is being
constantly hurled at anyone who has the faintest connection with the
Israel-Identity movement. It is found in Acts 17, verses 5-8, which reads
as follows;

"But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took  unto them certain
lewd fellows of
the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar,
and assaulted the house of Jason,(read Platt, Dowsett, Campbell, Barley,
Peters, Mohr, , etc..) and sought to  bring them out to the people.

And when they found them not, they drew Jason (etc) and certain brethren
unto the rulers
of the city, crying, These that have turned the  world upside down are come
hither also;

Whom Jason (etc) hath received: and these all do  contrary to the decrees
of Caesar,
saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard
these things."

Isn't it great to know exactly Who is on our side!!!"

It is indeed Mathews. Now do yourself a favour and try to pry yourself away
from your computer and do something worthwhile for a change. You have way to
much idle time on your hands and you know what they say about idle hands.
Perhaps you should seek some type of employment.

YHWH Bless,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:38:16 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=793
> At 10:56 AM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>
> >> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
> >which
> >> >I have exposed as the canard they are.
>
>
>
> >> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot
the
> >> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
> >> all, each and everyday.
>
>
> >> You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
> >> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
> >> mistaken
> >> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
> >>
>
>
> >You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
> >mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
> >sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith
as a
> >whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
> >willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
> >inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
> >point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you
Kadach!
> >
> >Regards to a racist,
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
> Pastor F. Dowsett put it best regarding our Christian Identity
beliefs in a
> response
> to an attack on "our truths". He said as follows:
>
> "We really should thank the above writer for the free coverage of at
least
> some aspects of
> our  beliefs, in particular, our origins. But isnt it interesting how
that
> every time the
> media decides to have a swipe at us, they bring in the ADC of Bnai
Brith,
> the Klu Klux Clan, and any other derogatory  organisation and/or
belief
> they can lay their hands on. When are
> they going to  get real? The fact that some members of the "Clan"
hold the
> same  beliefs as
> to our Israel identity does not in any way connect us with them. But
> perhaps Mr. Paton
> believes that because the Catholic Church has its headquarters  in
Rome, we
> can now refer to all Catholics as Italians. As to the "seedline"
theory,
> this is held by a minority of
> Identity believers, and totally rejected by the great majority of us.
His
> comments regarding our alleged beliefs about the black races are as
> offensive to us as is his pathetic attempts
> to handle and abuse a subject of which he has demonstrably such a
pitiable
> lack of knowledge.
> We have replied to these accusations many times in  the past, but of
> course, good journalists cannot allow facts to interfere with  what
they
> are told to print. The point that interested
> me in particular was the  phone interview to which he referred. I have
> never ever spoken to
> Mr. Paton,  either personally, or by phone. However, in mid June, I
was
> phoned by a Mr. Ian Walker, who introduced himself to me as a
producer with
> the ABC, and during  the course of
> this phone conversation, I mentioned that there would be about  1,000
> people who read our publication, "The Covenant Vision". The  remaining
> comments made by Mr. Paton were fairly accurate in the context of my
> conversation with Mr. Walker, but they were never made to Mr. Paton.
It
> would be interesting to know just how a young reporter from a
provincial
> newspaper is able to quote from a phone conversation held some two
months
> previously between myself and an ABC producer. And they accuse us of
> believing in conspiracy theories. His follow-up report should be most
> interesting. I found  a very interesting passage in the Bible which
seems
> to me to be fairly appropriate to what is going on as far as the
opposition
> which is being
> constantly hurled at anyone who has the faintest connection with the
> Israel-Identity movement. It is found in Acts 17, verses 5-8, which
reads
> as follows;
>
>
> "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took  unto them
certain
> lewd fellows of
> the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an
uproar,
> and assaulted the house of Jason,(read Platt, Dowsett, Campbell,
Barley,
> Peters, Mohr, , etc..) and sought to  bring them out to the people.
>
> And when they found them not, they drew Jason (etc) and certain
brethren
> unto the rulers
> of the city, crying, These that have turned the  world upside down
are come
> hither also;
>
> Whom Jason (etc) hath received: and these all do  contrary to the
decrees
> of Caesar,
> saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
>
> And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they
heard
> these things."
>
>
> Isn't it great to know exactly Who is on our side!!!"
>
>
> It is indeed Mathews. Now do yourself a favour and try to pry
yourself away
> from your computer and do something worthwhile for a change.

How typical of you Kadach to be unable to defend yourself, and post
instead some more unsupported lies by one of your "leaders".  Face it,
you and your beliefs are on the fringes of society for a reason, they
are despicable and false. Posting nonsense from people barely able to
pass a high school equivalency exam doesn't change that.

 You have way to
> much idle time on your hands and you know what they say about idle
hands.
> Perhaps you should seek some type of employment.

Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time is
much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord. That
hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

p.s. Notice you didn't have the courage or knowledge to respond to the
demolition of Sneads Talmud post!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:48:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=790

>    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
> exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
> faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
> here on earth.

You are not Jesus Christ and the comparison is invidious. Christ had
far more problems with non-Jews.

The sins of the Satanic off springs
> will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
> lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
> but not the hater.

If you hated lies you wouldn't tell them with a frequency that is truly
astounding.

>    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
> thought's  on the Talmud:

> ***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
> kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
> doctrine."
> ***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
> "the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
> prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
> ***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
> ***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
> ***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
> (1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
> ***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
> condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
> ***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
> ***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
> of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
> ***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
> By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
> continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
> Religion with daily increasing audacity."
> ***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
>    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
> religious Leaders of the past?

You are a hater when you post lies about Jews because you hate them and
want to smear them. Many of the great religious leaders of the past
committed horrible deeds in the name of the Church or the Lord.
Thinking people recognize that fact. To cite their antisemitism as if
that justifies yours confirms your ignorance of the religion you
profess to practice.



 Am I wrong to tell the
> truth?

You tell lies.

It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
> Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.

That's because you tell lies. I notice you didn't respond to the
exposure of your lies in the Talmud post. That's because you know they
are lies and are unable to defend them. Good people get flustered when
people like you attempt to spread your hate and hide behind the
Scripture and failed religious leaders to do so.

> Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
> noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
> eminently defended?

No more than the Bible. Truth always must be defended against those
whose evil natures would destroy it. A modern Pope has admitted the
past sins of the Church against Jews.

We recognize today
That many centuries of blindness
Have veiled our eyes,
So that we no longer see the beauty of your chosen people
And no longer recognize the features
Of our firstborn brother.
We know now that the Mark of Cain is on our forehead.
Over the course of centuries our brother Abel
Has lain in blood we have spilled,
Because we forgot your love.
Forgive us for the curse
Which we unjustly placed on the name of the Jews.
Forgive us,
For crucifying you a second time.
For we knew not what we were doing.

 of Pope John XXIII.

You should look to your own salvation.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: maxwell99@webtv.net (Colleen Jones)
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: More on the Talmud by Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:29:57 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=791

More lies about the Talmud from Mr. Snead, Jew hater extaordinaire.

>     The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the
> necessity to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts
of the
> Talmud are repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change
what he
> has woke so hard to write.
>
>
> THE TALMUD
>                    1 of 28
>
> The Talmud: Judaism's holiest book documented and exposed:
> The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence
over the
> Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud
itself,
> Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the
observance of
> the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old
Testament)."

That's not true. The Torah - the Five Books of Moses is Judaism's
"holiest" book, however it has two parts, a written part (which is what
Christians are familiar with) and an Oral part (which the early
Christians abandoned). The Oral part, or "Oral Law" is analogous to be
a body of jurispudence and procedures to accompany the written law and
is understood to have been handed down from Moses around the 1200's
BCE. It was expressly forbidden to write it down because it was thought
that any such attempt would be incomplete but after much debate, it
became apparent that the only way to preserve it would be to
write it down and this was done between 70CE and 200 CE in the form of
the Mishna and the supplementary Tosefta. Later the Gemara was added as
additional material and was written between 200CE and 500CE. Finally
around 500 CE this and other material were included in the encyclopedic
Talmud consisting of 5,894 pages and there are many further works in
addition to these as well.

The point of saying this is that in the absence of any interpretation
via an oral tradition, it is difficult to understand what was meant.
For example, the classic "eye for an eye" quote (Exodus 21:24 and
Leviticus 24:17-22) which Christians interpret literally has no such
interpretation in Judaism. No Jewish court has ever blinded or
otherwise inflicted physical injury as revenge or retribution. The
phrase is interpreted to mean what the perpetrator of a crime deserves,
not what he should get. Another example is that despite the existence
of capital punishment in the Hebrew Bible, Jewish courts rarely issued
the death penalty
as extremely strict conditions were imposed on who was considered valid
witnesses and other requirements which were difficult to meet in
practice.

Other examples proving the existence of the Oral Law within the Bible
relate to the fact that many terms, procedures, rights and
responsibilites are assumed to be common knowledge within the text. A
common expression is "as I have commanded you" but it doesn't say
anywhere what the command was, except that it known from the Oral part
of the Bible.

The Talmud derives its authority from the Torah on which it is based..

> The
> supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also
be seen
> in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more
knowledge of
> the Old Testament than the Israelis.

That's not true. In fact they have less knowledge of the Bible because
they lost the Oral Law somewhere in their past and thus did not have
complete knowledge of the Bible because the Oral Law is just as much a
part of the Bible as the Written Law. How for example would they be
expected to perform duties described in the written Bible described in
the form "as I have commanded you" where no where else in the written
Bible does it give what these instructions are? The instructions were
given in the Oral part of the Bible.

Also, it is clear from the Talmud that the Torah law takes precedence
over the Talmud: "When doubt arises in a Rabbinical law we are
naturally lenient; but where the law is Scriptural we are strict."
Pesahim, Soncino Edition, p. 42, footnote (2)

>
>     However, their religion is so ancient it pre-dates the Scribes
Talmud, of
> which they have no knowledge. According to the N.Y. Times of Sept.
29, 1992,
> p.4: "The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further
than the
> Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the
basis
> of modern traditions never came their way." Because they don't
traffic in
> Talmudic traditions, the Black Ethiopians are discriminated against
and have
> been forbidden to perform marriages, funerals and other services in
the
> Israeli state.

Because the Ethiopian Jews stopped following the Oral Law at some point
and came to rely on only the Written Law (Bible) they stopped
practising certain aspects of Judaism since they did not have the full
knowledge required. The Talmud itself did not change the practice of
Judaism as is claimed. All it did was codify the knowledge that already
existed and had been handed down since the time of Moses. It still
would be handed down orally, had it not been for people trying to
murder all the Jews over the centuries. If it wasn't for that, there
would have been no need to write it down in the first place.

>
>     Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most
influential
> rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox
Judaism and
> the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law).
> Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than
2,000
> rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.

So? What is your point?

>
>     N.Y. Times religion reporter Ari Goldman described the basis of
the
> rabbis authority: "Soloveitchik came from a long line of
distinguished
> Talmudic scholars...Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost
> exclusively to the study of the Talmud...He came to Yeshiva
University's
> Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent
teacher in
> the Talmud...He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of
Talmud...sitting
> with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of
the
> Talmud."

So? What is your point?

>
>     Nowhere does Goldman refer to Soloveitchiks knowledge of the
Bible as the
> basis for being one of the top world authorities on Jewish law. The
rabbis
> credentials are predicated upon his mastery of the Talmud. All other
studies
> are clearly secondary. Britains Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993
states
> that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud
to the
> exclusion of everything else."

So? What is your point?

>
>     The Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions
Moses
> gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus
time.
> Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and
those who
> taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because it nullified Biblical
teachings.

The Talmud does not nullify any Biblical teachings but clarifies them.
The Bible has two parts, the written part and the oral part. The oral
part is what is expounded upon in the Talmud. It is interesting that
Jesus is claimed to have condemned the Talmud since many of his
teachings and some of the "New Testament" are based directly on the
Oral Teachings.

>
>     The famous warning of Our Lord about the tradition that voids
Scripture
> (Mark 7:13), which is regularly used against Catholicism by
Protestants, is
> actually a direct reference to the Talmud or more properly, the
forerunner of
> the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during
Christ*s
> lifetime, before being committed to writing. All of Mark chapter 7,
from
> verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord*s pointed
condemnation of the
> Mishnah.

>
>     Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the
widespread
> Christian notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of
Judaism.
> But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments
of
> rabbis, not God; the Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their
supreme law
> and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said,
void
> the laws of God, not uphold them. As a reader of Talmud (in the
rabbinically
> authorized Soncino version) I know this to be true.
>

The Torah ("Old Testament") was given to Jews in two parts, the written
part which is commonly known to Christians, and also the Oral part,
which was codified in the Talmud. A proper understanding of the Torah
requires knowledge of both parts. Indeed, the written Torah itself
alludes to the presence of the Oral part.

>     There is a small Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to
eschew
> Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites,
a most
> hated and severely persecuted group within Judaism.

It is not true that they are "hated and severely persecuted". The only
concern with Karaites is that they do not practice normative Judaism as
revealed in the Torah (like some other contemporary Jewish groups).

>
>     To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical
> commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two
versions,
> the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud
is
> regarded as the authoritative version:  "The authority of the
Babylonian
> Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of
doubt
> the former is decisive." (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to
Kabbalah: A
> Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40)

This is essentially true.

>
>     This study is based on the Jewish-authorized, English translation
of the
> Babylonian Talmud: the Soncino edition. Every selection we cite is
documented
> directly from the text of the authoritative Soncino Talmud. We have
published
> herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up
for
> yourself. To verify the Talmud passages cited, refer to the Soncino
edition
> Talmud, which may be found in large university and seminary
libraries. The
> Soncino Talmud may also be purchased from book dealers.

Of course, as will be revealed in the following analysis of the posted
material, it is full of gross mistranslations, fabrications and out of
context "quotes". And of course, no translation will ever capture the
real flavour of what is being said. For proper study of the Talmud, an
excellent knowledge of Aramaic and Hebrew is required.

 Translations: The
> translators of the Talmud sometimes translate the Hebrew word goyim
> (Gentiles) under any number of terms such as heathen, Cuthean,
Egyptian,
> idolater etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all
non-Jews).
> See for example footnote 5 of the Soncino edition Talmud: Cuthean
(Samaritan)
> was here substituted for the original goy... Christians are sometimes
> referred to by the code word Min or Minim.

Only Jewish Christians are referred to as minim or "heretics". Gentile
Christians are not.

>
>     It is the standard disinformation practice of the Pharisees to
deny the
> existence of the following Talmudic scriptures and to claim they are
the
> fabrications of "anti-Semites." This disinformation can only obtain
cachet
> among those too lazy to go to the English-language books of the
Talmud and
> look these passages up for themselves. Hebrew University Professor
emeritus
> Israel Shahak in his monumental 1994 work, "Jewish History, Jewish
Religion"
> (London:Pluto Press), has confirmed the malice and racism contained
in Talmud.

Here we have the bizarre claim of the "Christian Identity" movement
that the modern day Jews are "Pharisees" and thus not "true" Jews of
the Bible... And Professor Shahak is well-known as a self-hating Jew
and for his vitriolic attacks against Judaism. He can hardly be cited
as an authoritative source on Jewish belief.

>
>     Like Prof. Shahak, we publish the following educational material
in the
> hope of liberating people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, from the
> superstitions, hate-mongering and barbarities of Talmud. The
implementation
> of Talmudic philosophy has caused untold suffering throughout history
and now
> in occupied Palestine it is used as a justification for the mass
murder of
> Palestinian civilians.

Professor Shahak is a self-hating Jew who will go to any lengths to
discredit his own religion. Unfortunately, his understanding of his own
religion is not valid or authentic and he is certainly not a
theologian.

Also, rather than causing "untold suffering", the teachings of the
Talmud for much of the basis for the legal system and common law in
most civilised societies.

> Some Teachings of the Talmud:
>
>     Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will
be
> punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

The correct quote is as follows:

"Whoever [rebelliously] breaches the words [legislative enactments] of
the Scribes [early legal authorities who had legislative
power] is liable for death [at the hands of Heaven]... whoever mocks
the words of the Wise is sentenced to [divine]
punishment [in the afterlife] by boiling excrement."

The Written Torah bids Jews to follow legislation enacted by the
Sanhedrin (council of sages). This legislation was designed to
prevent Jews from violating Written Torah laws and to organize life in
a manner befitting a holy people. Rebellion against this
legislation was naturally seen in an extremely negative light.

As a result it is no wonder that the Talmud expresses itself in the
strongest terms against those who systematically and
rebelliously violate the rabbinical enactments promulgated by the
ancient Sanhedrin. On the other hand one who violates a
Written Torah commandment usually does so not as an act of rebellion
but because he has succumbed to a momentary sinful
impulse.

Phrases such as 'is liable for death' are used to indicate a negative
attitude to a certain form of behavior and refer to a penalty
imposed by Heaven and not to punishment inflicted by a religious court.
In fact such expressions are not usually meant to be
taken literally as implying that Heaven will punish someone with early
death for his sin. Some commentators note that any
unfortunate occurrence such as sickness or poverty may be seen as
implementation of a 'death' penalty by Heaven. Also, the
judgment of Heaven may be mitigated by factors such as repentance.

Another example of the use of this type of phrase is found at Shabbat
114a where "R. Yochanan said that every scholar who has filth on his
cloak is liable for death", and there are many other similar examples.
It is important to emphasize that the such statements are in no way
meant to suggest implementation of a death penalty by a human court.
(In fact the death penalty was so rare in rabbinic times that the
Talmud states that "A Sanhedrin that gives a death penalty once in
seven years is called 'destructive'; Rabbi Eliezer ben Azaria said
[that the reference is to a Sanhedrin which gives a death sentence]
once in seventy
years." (Makot 7a).)

Similarly the term 'boiling excrement' is another example of the
metaphorical style used by the Talmud to express disapproval of
negative behavior (I believe that in ancient times animal excrement was
used for industrial purposes and the term may not have quite the same
connotation it has nowadays).

>
>     Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to
a city
> where he is not known and do the evil there.

The correct translation should be: "R. Elayi says: 'if a man sees that
the evil urges is overcoming him he should go to a place where no one
knows him, dress in black, cover himself in black and do what his heart
wills and not desecrate the name of Heaven in public".

The commentators on the page immediately point out that the statement
means that in the process of leaving his town, entering a strange
place, dressing in black and covering himself in black, a person's evil
urge will be broken and he will have no desire to do evil; i.e., he may
do as his heart wills since his heart will no longer wish to do evil
(several commentators note that this interpretation is stated
explicitly in a parallel passage of agada in the Talmud Yerushalmi).

Other commentators point out that the statement does not refer to an
evil urge to commit a sin but rather the urge to behave improperly,
thereby desecrating G-d's name. When a Torah scholar acts in a manner
that is not becoming to one who has studied Torah (for example, when he
speaks with undue severity) he desecrates G-d's name because he is
expected to conform to a higher standard of behavior. According to
these commentators this  passage is directed at these scholars; if they
feel the urge to act on the level of the common person they should do
so where they are not known as Torah scholars and thus avoid the
desecration of G-d's name.

>
>     Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human
("Only
> ye are designated men")

In Numbers 19:14 the Written Torah states that "If [a] man [person]
dies inside a tent ...." and the passage goes on to describe
the laws of ritual impurity caused by the corpse.

The sages considered whether this law applied to all men or only to
Jews. It might have been thought that the word 'man' or
'person' would indicate a reference to both Jews and non-Jews. However
the Oral tradition made it clear that when the Torah
uses the word 'man' or 'person' in connection with legal restrictions
the reference is usually to Jews and not to non-Jews who
are not bound by Torah law.

The Talmudic passage states in connection with this matter: "'... My
sheep ... you are men' (Ez. 34:31); you [Jews] are called
'adam' [men], and the idol worshippers are not called 'adam' [men]".

Commentators explain that the use of the word 'men' [adam] in this
passage is similar to the use of the word 'person' in modern
national law codes. When such a law code uses the term 'person' the
reference is not universal but is restricted to those
persons who are bound by that national law code.

Similarly in the case at hand the laws of ritual impurity apply only to
Jews and not to non-Jews. The passage should thus be
understood as follows:

"It is a general rule of interpretation in the Torah that for the
purpose of legal enactments the term 'person' refers to Jews, who
are bound by the law, and does not refer to non-Jews who are not bound
by the law". It is interesting to note that the proof
text is taken from Ezekiel Chapter 34 in which Israel is compared to
sheep.

Another interpretation given by commentators is that when the context
is negative (as in a discussion of ritual impurity caused
by a corpse or the commission of a sin) the word 'man' is used to refer
to Jews only (in this
way not bringing shame on the name 'Israel'), but when the context is
positive then the word includes all of mankind.

With this understanding the Talmudic passage should be understood as
follows:

"It is a general rule of interpretation in the Torah that in a negative
context such as that of ritual impurity the word 'man' refers to Jews
only, and not to non-Jews".

This sentence appears three times in the Talmud; the reference in Baba
Mezia 114a is tangential and therefore the subject is not developed at
any length. An honest reader would follow the cross-references to the
other locations and note that in Kerithoth 6b the Talmud points out
that the application of this principle of interpretation is
questionable in any event.

Yevamot 61a is the third place in which this rule of interpretation is
mentioned and in this location the commentators on the page also point
out that this rule of interpretation has very limited use. They
specifically cross reference to the Talmudic statements in Avoda Zara
3a and Sanhedrin 59a which compare non-Jews who engage in Torah study
to the High Priest.

>. Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of
> Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated
animals
> ("she-asses").

The prophet Ezekiel (Ez. 23:20) says "... for their flesh is as the
flesh of donkeys ..." in reference to the nations surrounding Israel.
The prophet is castigating Judea for forming covenants with foreign
nations and metaphorically describes this process as Judea desiring
intimacy with donkeys.

The use of this designation by the prophet is consistent with biblical
poetic style. See, for example, Gen. 49:14 where Issachar is denoted a
"donkey"; or Gen. 49:17 where Dan is described as a "snake"; or Deut.
33:17 where Joseph is described as a "cow" etc.

The Talmud at Berakoth 58a relates how R. Shila had a Jew punished by
flogging for having illicit sexual relations with a non-Jew. The person
who was flogged used his influence with local imperial officials and
tried to have them execute R. Shila.

These officials asked R. Shila to explain why he had ordered the
flogging and he answered that the punishment had been meted out to
someone who had had relations with a donkey. The exchange ended with
the officials being so impressed with R. Shila that they extended R.
Shila's legal powers and granted him the right to impose capital
punishment.

The person who had been flogged accused R. Shila of being a liar, to
which R. Shila answered by quoting Ezekiel; that is, he claimed that
his statement was true on the same metaphorical level as that used by
the prophet Ezekiel and therefore did not fall into the category of an
outright lie. (In our own day we might find a rough parallel if a
preacher were to accuse an errant member of his flock of lusting after
animal flesh.)

This verse from Ezekiel is found in a few other Talmudic discussions.
It is instructive to note that in Arakhin 19b the verse is applied to
Jews to indicate that the density of human flesh and bone is similar to
that of animal flesh and bone, and in Yevamot 98a the verse is taken to
refer to a legal position which is lenient to converts to Judaism (in
the sense that they are considered newborns, and not related to their
former family members for purposes of legal strictures regarding
marriage laws). Similarly in
Berakhot 25b the Talmud specifically points out that the verse does not
refer to non-Jews.

>
>     Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a
Jew, THE
> GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Misquote. The text doesn't say that he must be killed but that he's
worthy of death -- an idiomatic phrase referring to death by the hand
of god (struck by lightning etc.). That's because by hitting a man
(made in the image of God) you are marring the image of God. The same
is also said of Jews who simply raise their hand against others, by the
way.

>
>     Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews.  A Jew need not pay a
Christian
> ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

It is certainly not "OK to cheat non-Jews". In the Tosefta Baba Kama
(10:8) we are taught: "It is more grievous to steal from a non-Jew than
from a Jew because of the desecration of G-d's name".

In Sanhedrin 57a the Talmud discusses the Noahide laws which are
binding on all non-Jews. It specifically examines the source of the
prohibition against holding back wages. Such practice is forbidden to
everyone - both Jew and non-Jew - but the biblical source of this
prohibition is different for Jews and non-Jews.

Jews are prohibited from holding back wages by specific verses in the
bible (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:14) which impose this prohibition only on
Jews. These verses specifically prohibit Jews from holding back wages
from anyone, whether Jew or non-Jew (Rambam, positive commandment
#200).

For non-Jews the biblical source for this prohibition is the verse
generally prohibiting non-Jews from stealing.

In this passage the Talmud examines the prohibition of withholding
wages with reference only to the scriptural passage prohibiting
non-Jews from such behavior. The proper translation of the passage is
this:

"holding back wages - a Cuthean [who does this] to a Cuthean -
prohibited [by the verse prohibiting non-Jews from stealing]; a Jew to
a Cuthean - permitted [by this verse, but prohibited by other verses
which specifically prohibit a Jew from holding back wages].

It may be noted that there are other situations where Jews are
forbidden to do something by one verse and Gentiles are forbidden the
same action by a different verse.

>
>     Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an
> Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an
ox of a
> Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

The commentaries on the page explain that the reference is to
Canaanites who do not observe the Noachide laws but act as pirates and
are outside the community of civilized nations. According to their laws
no one is liable for damage committed by his animals. Since they do not
take the minimal steps necessary to guard their own animals from doing
damage to others the sages ruled that they too should be bound by their
own rules in this particular instance.

The passage of the Bible that is discussed here is Exodus 21:35. The
following is a quote from the Torah Temima, a famous commentary
published about a century ago: "Behold, this law referring to the
exemption of payment [in this case] ..... has been used by anti-Semites
to attack our ancient literature ... and this vicious claim is raised
by the haters of Israel in generation after generation, and the wise
men of Israel in each generation have explained that the intent of our
sages was to idol worshippers of
ancient times .... who are no longer found in modern times .... the
Talmud here explains this matter ... [it applies to those] who do not
keep the [seven Noachide commandments] but do the exact opposite, that
is, they do not have a legal system, they permit murder and
licentiousness, robbery ... etc. ... and all the modern nations deny
the rights of such wild people and expel them from the civilized
community .... and you will see that the Talmud itself makes an
exception from this rule to all nations which accept the Noachide
commandments which are the majority of the nations at this time [the
Torah Temima commentary was written about a century ago] and their
status is the same as that of Jews for these laws [and this matter is
so clear and obvious that] no further discussion is necessary."

Similar sentiments were expressed by the Meiri about 700 years ago; in
his commentary on this passage he pointed out that the law applied to
nations who did not care if their animals damaged the property of
others and did not apply to the nations of his time.

>
>     Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews.  If a Jew finds an
object
> lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.
(Affirmed also
> in Baba Kamma 113b).

Jews may not steal from non-Jews. In the Tosefta Baba Kama (10:8) we
are taught: "It is more grievous to steal from a non-Jew than from a
Jew because of the desecration of G-d's name".

The passage at Baba Mezia 24a deals with a specific religious
commandment requiring Jews to collect lost items, such as stray
animals, care for them, declare them to be lost, and hold them until
the loser comes to identify and claim them. This rule is not universal;
there are times when the loser is deemed to have renounced his
ownership of the lost property and then the rule is 'finders-keepers'.

Jewish law requires Jews to be bound by the 'law of the land' in civil
and commercial matters. Where the law of the land requires the return
of lost objects, Jews are bound by that law as are all residents of
that land. However, in pagan cities the general rule was
'finders-keepers' and the question discussed by this Talmudic passage
is whether in towns with a majority pagan population (where the general
rule is 'finders-keepers') Jews are required to return lost objects to
Jews, and the answer is negative.

The statement made in Baba Mezia 24a is the following: "Come and listen
[these words introduce a statement which will be analyzed in detail] if
he finds a lost article in a place where the majority are Israelites,
he must announce [that he found a lost article and return it to its
owner]; if the majority are Canaanites [and the general rule is
finders-keepers], he need not announce [that he found a lost article or
return it to its previous owner]".

This discussion is amplified in Baba Kama 113b where the discussion
concludes that even if there is no general religious obligation to
return lost objects to heathens in cases where 'finders-keepers' is the
law, nevertheless it is required in cases where failure to return lost
objects might lead to a profanation of G-d's name.

"We find that it is forbidden to steal even from idol worshippers and
those who do not have any kind of legal system ..... but one is not
required to expend efforts to find and return their lost articles, and
in fact one who simply finds their lost articles is not required to
return them .... since return of lost articles is an act of
extraordinary kindness [in places where 'finders-keepers' is the rule]
and we are not required to show this extraordinary kindness to those
who live without laws, but in any event ... in the case of a lost
article it should be returned if th

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:31:22 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Jones wrote:

Absolutely nothing worth commenting on. Fancy that!

Philip Mathews

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=796
> Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
> obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
> we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:58:55 -0700
From: "Andy" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

I completely agree, that is why I just delete Mathews before reading
whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one is Gorman, that one is an
automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios, Andy
Subject: [13texan] More Talmudic Blaspheme......
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:10:32 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    There are three main branches of the Jewish religion: Orthodox, Reform
and Conservative.  The Orthodox is the traditional source of Judaism and is
considered to be at it's heart. Very similar to the Orthodox Judaism is the
Conservative branch, but it offers some greater leeway in observance of the
stringent Jewish laws. more modernistic, the Reform movement is far less
bound by Pharisaic traditions than either of the other branches. The
Encyclopedia Judaic describes the current religious picture of the nation of
Israel:
    There are few Reform or Conservative congregations in the State of
Israel. Orthodoxy is the official religious position in Israel with the
majority of the Rabbis belonging to the old school talmudic jurists. (
"Judaism." Encyclopedia Judaica,
Page 396)
    The tendency within the Jewish Theological Seminary [in New York] has
been emphatically toward a more orthodox stance than exist within it in the
previous generation. ("Conservative Judaism,"Enc. Encyclopedia Judaica, pg.
906)
    The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia is clear on the fact that the Talmud,
not the Torah or the old Testament, is the book of choice for Judaism.
    Thus the ultimate authority for the Orthodoxy is the Babylonian Talmud.
The Bible ranks second to it in reality, if not in theory. (Universal Jewish
Encyclopedia,
"Authority" pg.637)
    The Talmud makes it clear that Jesus is regarded as a "charlatan,"
"magician,"
"seducer," and "deceiver."  The Talmud also says that Jesus was strangled in
a pit of  dung and that the Jews hated him so much they executed him four
different ways! Calling the Holy Bible's account of the crucifixion a lie.
Portraying Christ as the Bastard son of a Harlot and even suggests that he
was a Gentile.
    The Talmud, in some passages even boast that the Jews alone and not the
Romans had executed Christ for his idolatry. This Unholy wretched book full
of blasphemy even states that a Jewish magician brought Christ up from the
dead to
punish him by boiling him in hot semen.
    Here are some more quotes from the Book of Satan, The Talmud....

*** Balaam [Jesus] fornicated with his jackass. (Sanhedrin 105a-b)
*** Jewish priest raised Balaam [Jesus] from the dead and punished him
in boiling semen.(57a Gitten)
*** She was a descendant princes and governors [ the Virgin Mary] played the
harlot with a carpenter (Sanhedrin 106a)
*** Balaam [Jesus] was lowered into a pit of dung up to his armpits. Then a
hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck, and the tow
ends pulled in opposite directions until he was dead. (Sanhedren 52b)
Also in Sanhedren 106a it says that he was executed in four different ways.
*** Hast thou heard how old Balaam [Jesus] was?...bloody and deceitful men
shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or
thirty-four years old.
(Sanhedren 106)
*** Those who read the uncanonical books [New Testament] will have no portion
of the world to come. (Sanhedren 90a)
*** Jews must destroy the books of the Christians. (Shabbath116a)

Because I expose these Jewish lies in their unholy book I am the Liar. I am
the Hatemonger. Any Christian who would read the verses from the blasphemous
Talmud and not be angered needs to even look at himself. I do not blame any
Jew ,for the revelations of word such as these that I have exposed, to be
angry and afraid at the same time. The cursed Talmud will be destroyed and
God's word will last forever.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 17:20:07 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=799

> I completely agree, that is why I just delete Mathews before reading
whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one is Gorman, that one is an
automatic delete as well.

In other words you find obnoxious anyone who disabuses you of ignorant
prejudices. Automatic delete will not help you when you face your maker!

Philip Mathews

 Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Colleen Jones
>   To: 13texan@egroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53 PM
>   Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
>
>
> Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
> obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
> we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:13:38 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead  wrote:

More lies about the Talmud. Let’s look!

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=792

> THE TALMUD
>                    2 of 28
>
>     Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus mother
was a
> whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played
the harlot
> with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated
that in
> the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother,
"Miriam
> the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

No such text exists in the standard Talmuds. There is reference to a
certain Ben Stada who according to R. Eliezer brought knowledge of
witchcraft out of Egypt by making marks on his body. The other sages
dismissed Ben Stada as a fool. In some versions of the Talmud there is
statement to the effect that this person's mother (Miriam Magdala) was
not faithful to her husband. Some commentators specifically point out
for identification purposes that this person was executed in Lod and is
not  identifiable with anyone mentioned in Christian traditions. The
Talmud also notes that the name Miriam Magdala was a very
common one.

>
> Gloats over Christ Dying Young A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats
over the
> early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam
(Jesus)
> was?-He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written,
Bloody
> and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that
he was
> thirty-three or thirty-four years old

The Talmud states that the wicked Bilaam (Numbers 23:24) died after
living only half his allotted time span, in accordance with the
statement in Psalms 55:24, that the wicked do not survive half their
allotted life span. The commentary of Rashi makes it clear that the
reference is to the biblical Bilaam.

>
>     Sanhedrin 43a . SAYS JESUS WAS A SORCERER.  Jesus ("Yeshu" and in
> footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced
sorcery.

Standard versions of the Talmud do not mention anyone with this name.
There is a version which mentions Yeshu HaNotzri who was executed and
who had five students who were also executed. The description of this
Yeshu HaNotzri indicates that he was executed by stoning and that for
forty days before his execution announcements were made looking for
evidence in his favor. The Talmud also indicates that this Yeshu
HaNotzri was extremely friendly with the local Roman government. The
passage describes the way in which the followers of this Yeshu claim
that their names (Mathai, Natai, Netzer, Boni and Toda)
give them immunity from the death penalty and the way they were
answered (by passages from the bible connecting their names with death
or execution). As the description of the person involved does not fit
the descriptions given in Christian traditions it would appear that it
is not referring to the same person.

>
>     Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see
footnote #4)
> is being boiled "hot excrement".

"Onkelos the son of Kalonikos the nephew of Titus wished to convert."
The Talmud relates that he used witchcraft to raise Titus, his wicked
uncle, from the dead and asked him whether he should convert to
Judaism. His uncle was so filled with hatred against the Jews that he
advised his nephew to be hostile to them, despite the fact that they
are so close to G-d and despite the fierce punishment he endured after
his death for his own hostility to Israel. Onkelos then called up
Bilaam who had similar comments. Then he raised up 'the sinners of
Israel' who advised him to join Israel since anyone who troubled the
Jews
is considered as if he troubled G-d. Onkelos asked what punishment the
sinners of Israel had to endure and was told they were judged in
boiling excrement as is fitting for all those who ridicule the words of
the sages.

It may indeed be the case that there are manuscripts which name Yeshu
HaNotzri as one of the sinners of Israel in the context of this passage
but it is not clear who that person was (see item [CLAIM 34] above).
More generally it may be said that while Judaism differs sharply from
Christianity in many matters of theology and interpretation of
historical events, attacking the founder of the Christian faith as a
wicked person is not a central or even peripheral element of Jewish
theology.

>
>     Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the
Passover,
> Yeshu was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense
could be
> made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"

In the common versions of the Talmud this quote does not exist.
Generally speaking the person Yeshu referred to in Talmudic texts
cannot be absolutely identified with anyone described in Christian
tradition.
>
>     Attacks Christians and their Books Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians
> ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be
punished
> there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of
minim).

At Rosh Hashanah 17a the Talmud quotes agadic passages regarding
punishment after death. The passages describe those who will undergo a
short period of punishment, those who will suffer for a longer period
and those who will suffer eternally. In this latter group are Jewish
heretics of various categories, the religious leaders of idol
worshipping religions, those who abuse their authority and those who
mislead the public and cause them to sin, such as Jeroboam.

With respect to the religious leaders of the pagans, Meiri, one of the
most famous commentators on the Talmud wrote (about 700 years ago):
"... we have already explained that ..... [the references are to] the
nations of long ago who were not bound by the ways of religion but were
deeply involved in the worship of idols and stars ..." (Meiri at AZ
26).

In one version of this text this group includes Jews who have betrayed
their own religion. According to the Ein Yaakov these apostates are the
Sadduccees. In the uncensored text of Rashi (the prime commentator on
the Talmud) these apostates are described as the students of Yeshu
HaNotzri who have twisted the words of the Torah. This version is not
found in standard Rashi commentaries on the Talmud. See comments to
item [CLAIM 35].

The teaching is directed against Jews who become apostates, not against
Christians. In fact the Talmud makes it plain in another passage
(Shabbat 116a) that there is a significant difference between those who
knowingly choose heresy and those who are born into it and commentators
also emphasize this important distinction.
>
>     Sanhedrin 90a . Those who read the New Testament (uncanonical
books, see
> footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

In this passage Rabbi Akiva held that those who read 'external books'
forfeit their place in the World to Come. The Talmud discusses (San
100b) the exact meaning of 'external books' and suggests they refer to
the books  of the Sadduccees. (The books of the new Christian religion
did not exist at the time of R. Akiva, certainly not in their present
form, but it is quite likely that the reference is to all works which
interpret the Written Torah in a manner opposed to that transmitted by
the sages.)

Commentators point out that the term 'reading' is meant to be
understood as reading these works on a permanent basis, and not as
reviewing them for a legitimate purpose.

>
>     Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the
Christians,
> i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

The Talmud discusses the prohibition against carrying on the Sabbath in
certain areas and deals with the question of saving Torah scrolls from
a fire in such areas. In certain cases it is permitted to save a Torah
scroll from a fire by carrying it on the Sabbath and the Talmud
discusses whether this rule applies to Torah scrolls written by Jewish
heretics ('minim'). The passage reports a comment from Rabbi Tarfon
that if these scrolls came to his hands he would burn them despite the
fact that G-d's name is written in them.

This passage has been understood by the codifiers of Jewish law to deal
with a Torah scroll containing G-d's name when the scribe who wrote
such name had heretical thoughts when he wrote G-d's name. Where the
intention was idolatrous then the Torah scroll should be burned. There
are stringent rules regarding who may write a Torah scroll and how it
is to be written. It is thanks to the great care taken by scribes
throughout the ages that we have accurate bibles today. If a Torah
scroll was not written with idolatrous intentions then it can be
retained and read privately no matter who wrote it (Aruch HaShulchan YD
281).

>
>     Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New
Testament
> books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History,
Jewish
> Religion, p. 21).

This 'report' has nothing to do with the Talmud. Israel Shahak is a
contemporary Israeli writer well known for his virulent hatred of
Judaism and Zionism. His writings are featured on anti-Semitic web
sites such as Radio Islam.

>
>     Sick and Insane Teachings Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew
should
> take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it
with honey
> and eat it.

In Gittin 69a the Talmud
discusses the medical practices and beliefs of the time of the Talmud.
The commentaries (Tos at MK 11a) make it clear to any reader that such
remedies have not been held to be effective or applicable for many
centuries. To the extent that these remedies are not metaphorical
agadic passages they were included in the Talmud to show that the sages
were well-versed with the medical knowledge of their age, and not as
religiously sanctioned medicine. In fact when it became apparent that
such remedies had no healing powers it became forbidden by Jewish law
to use them.
>
>     Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a
holy
> way is given.

The Jews believed you should try to do everything in a way that was
pleasing to God. Why is that "sick and insane"?
>
>     Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all
the
> animals in the Garden of Eden.

This passage of the Talmud describes various teachings in the name of
Rabbi Elazar on the importance of marriage and the great merit of
having a good wife. Rabbi Elazar shows how these ideas are contained in
the biblical text (Gen. 3:20-23). Verse 23 reads "This time it is bone
of my bones and flesh of my flesh" and Rabbi Elazar states that since
the verse teaches us that 'this time' Adam found a mate, there is an
implication that there were previous times when he did not find a mate,
and he states that Adam "came on" to all the animals but his "mind was
not satisfied" until he "came on" Eve. In Hebrew the term "came on" is
often used to describe intercourse and this is the simplistic literal
translation of this passage.

This passage is a classical example of agadic literature and must be
understood metaphorically (as the commentators point out). One
commentator (Anaf Yosef) suggests that this agada teaches the
importance of marriage. He explains that Adam reflected that the
purpose of animal mating is primarily for the propagation of the animal
species. Adam's "mind was not satisfied" with this concept of mating
because, as the commentator explains, "... the mating of a man is
different [from that of animals], for a man who lives with a woman not
only benefits the species [by reproduction] but also benefits his own
body and
soul ..." in accordance with the Talmudic teaching that a man who lives
without a wife lives without Torah and without the closeness of the
Divine Presence. Adam was satisfied only when he found a mate with whom
he could have a relationship that transcended an animal relationship.
>
>     Yebamoth 63a . Declares that agriculture is the lowest of
occupations.

Ezekiel 27:28 states that the seamen of Tyre will 'descend' from their
ships to the land. Rabbi Elazar noticed that this verse could be
interpreted to mean that working the land is the lowest of all
occupations. Commentators explain Rabbi Elazar's comment in different
manners. One explains that the verse teaches that the worst and lowest
form of slavery is the slavery of a field worker. Another explains that
in the future there will be special blessings attached to agricultural
work and everyone will abandon all other work in order to work in
agriculture and participate in these special blessings (as described in
Zecharia
8:12). Another commentator notes that in fact agricultural work is the
work that is best suited to appreciation of G-d's bountiful mercy and
divine providence and that the term 'lowest' of occupations means that
it is the occupation which is most suited to the development of the
trait of humility. (Eitz Yosef)
>
>     Sanhedrin 55b . A JEW MAY MARRY A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL
(specifically,
> three years "and a day" old).

It is the manner of the Talmud to examine extreme theoretical cases in
order to precisely define and delineate legal concepts. Such study is
mandated because the laws are part of the Written and Oral Torah, not
necessarily because they have practical application.

There are different legal consequences arising from an act of
intercourse (related to personal status, punishment for rape, property
rights etc.) and the Talmud investigates whether such an act committed
on a baby girl has the status of intercourse or not. There is an
ancient tradition that states that if the girl is older than the age of
three then an act of intercourse was committed; before that age, such
an act does not have the status of sexual intercourse for legal
purposes (it may be an act of assault, of course).

The passage in question states as follows: "A girl of three years and a
day is [capable of being] married by an act of intercourse ..." and the
Talmud continues to list further legal consequences of an act of
intercourse (laws of personal status, property etc.).

The reference to marriage refers to a case in which the father of the
girl delivers his daughter to a man with the intention that he create a
marriage bond with his daughter by having relations with her. From a
legal point of view this procedure creates a marriage with all the
legal consequences that flow therefrom. This is a legal conclusion
which has nothing to do with rabbinic endorsement of such practices or
with the number of such occurrences in history.

In fact the rabbis strongly opposed formation of the marriage bond by
intercourse (at any age) and punished those who acted in such manner
(Kidushin 12b). They further taught that the father's right to marry
off his daughter was to be used for her benefit. The age and manner of
marriage is to a large extent a societal variable but at Kidushin 41a
the rabbis taught: "It is forbidden for a man to betroth his daughter
while she is young [but rather he should wait] till she has grown and
says 'This is the one I want [to marry]" and this teaching is repeated
elsewhere in the Talmud.
>
>     Sanhedrin 54b . A JEW MAY HAVE SEX WITH A CHILD AS LONG AS THE
CHILD IS
> LESS THAN NINE YEARS OLD.

The discussion here revolves around the age at which a male child is
capable of having relations that have the full legal ramifications and
penalties of intercourse. The entire discussion is related to an
analysis of the penalty for such action (which could be a capital
offense), and the passage states: "intercourse with a child of nine and
a day is not the same as that with a child of nine". As mentioned, this
statement is made in the context of the nature of the penalty to be
applied, and whether it is of a capital nature or not. See also the
remarks in item [CLAIM 45].
>
>     Kethuboth 11b . "WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A
LITTLE (three
> year old) GIRL IT IS NOTHING BECAUSE HER VIRGINITY WILL GROW BACK."

The statement is that "when a grown-up man has intercourse with a
little girl it is as nothing [in terms of creating a marriage bond with
the consequent legal ramifications] since for girls less [than three
years old] it is as if he put his finger into her eye ...". In other
words the act may be an act of assault but it does not create a legal
binding marriage unless the child is over the age of  three. See the
discussion under item
>
>     Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is
eligible to
> marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also
eligible to
> marry a Jewish priest.

(a) It is the manner of the Talmud to explore every possibility
including the most bizarre and extreme cases. The requirement to study
the Torah includes examination of such extreme cases. Further,
exploration of the extreme cases allows precise delineation of delicate
legal principles. The passage in question deals with the law that
forbids a Jewish priest to marry a 'zonah', which is commonly but
incorrectly translated as a prostitute. The Talmud investigates whether
a woman who had
relations with an animal falls into this category.

(b) Th[e] [second] sentence does not exist in the standard versions of
the Talmud (it also does not exist in the Soncino translation which I
examined).

>
>     Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world
that
> Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

It hardly needs saying that the Talmud and Jewish law impose strict
codes of sexual behavior and the passage in question contains a major
discussion of the evils of prostitution.

In this passage the Talmud discusses the power of true repentance. It
points out that sometimes penitents who repent of terrible religious
sins such as idol worship die as a result of the remorse they feel over
their past. The Talmud recounts the story of a man called Eliezer Ben
Dordia (he is not mentioned anywhere else in the Talmud) who was in the
habit of visiting prostitutes. The Talmud relates the tremendous
internal struggle he undertook as part of his repentance and how he
died as a result of the remorse he felt. A 'bat kol' (an echo of a
heavenly voice) was heard declaring that "Rabbi" (a title of
distinguished
honor) Eliezer was invited to the World to Come, that is, his sins had
been forgiven through his powerful act of repentance and further he had
been posthumously awarded the title "Rabbi".

The greatest rabbi of the age, the redactor of the Mishna, Rebi, wept
when he heard this story and declared that there are some who gain
their share of the World to Come from years of constant effort, while
there are others like Eliezer Ben Dordia who gain their share in a
moment (of intense repentance), and not only is their repentance
effective but in Heaven they are referred to by the title of "Rabbi"
(as per the 'bat kol').
>
>     Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

At Hagiga 27a a passage of agada states that "the fire of Gehinom will
not overcome a scholar as it says ..." and the Talmud employs a
literary flourish based on a verse in Jeremiah to prove this point.
This statement is followed by another literary flourish from the Song
of Songs to prove that "The fire of Gehinom will not overcome the
sinners of Israel". These literary flourishes represent the optimistic
belief that even those who sin will, after a period of punishment, gain
their place in the World
to Come.

>
>     Baba Mezia 59b. A RABBI DEBATES GOD AND DEFEATS HIM. GOD ADMITS
THE RABBI
> WON THE DEBATE.

It is part of Jewish belief that G-d granted certain rights of biblical
interpretation and legislation to the sages and rabbis. At Baba Mezia
59b the Talmud makes the point that disputes concerning such
interpretation and legislation must be settled by majority vote in
accordance with the rabbinical understanding of Exodus 23:2 and not by
invoking claims of prophecy or special signs or miracles. This point is
made in the graphic and metaphorical manner of agadic literature by
describing a debate
on a point of law between Rabbi Eliezer (sole opinion) and the majority
of rabbis.

Rabbi Eliezer tried to prove his point by invoking various miracles and
even a 'bat kol' (heavenly echo) to show that G-d supported his
position, but nevertheless his opponents insisted that the rule of the
majority prevailed. The story ends by describing how Elijah the Prophet
noted that on that day G-d himself smiled and admitted that his sons
had defeated him in debate.

>
>     Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor
toilet)
> a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long
enough to
> walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that
time;
> if he does, his children will be epileptic."

Much of Judaism is concerned with separating the holy from the unholy.
This teaching is concerned with separating the (unholy) act of going to
the bathroom and the holy act of having relations with one's wife.
Similarly, it is forbidden to pray in the presence of excrement or bad
smells, etc..

>
>     Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and
were
> exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindlers List where the Hollywood director
shows a
> Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and falling
into a
> pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two other Jewish
children
> partially immersed who inform the interloper that this cesspool is
their
> hiding spot exclusively and that he must find his own. These are the
kind of
> disgusting and morbid, psychotic images which Jewish kids are exposed
to
> constantly in the cinematic liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that
matter,
> in the Talmud as well.

If after seeing Schindler's list this guy can say anything against Jews
he is a psychopath. Actually, the poor boy who hid in the outhouse did
so in order to save his life from the "clean German anti-Semites" who
would not go close to the outhouse (they most probably suffer from OCD).

>     Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh")
a Jew
> should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam,
but if he
> can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dogs excrement as it
loosens the
> limbs."

The true statement does not relate to a Jew rather to any human. This
is an extract from a scientific procedure of ancient gentile doctors
and this medicinal compound together with the rest of the other
remedies mentioned there have been eradicated hundreds of years ago
from Jewish law. By the way, the earth over there would be very rich in
vitamin B12 which originates from sludge.

>
>     Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to
pass
> between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm
trees.
> Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting
at a
> crossroads.

In this passage of agada the rabbis in Babylon refer to various
stratagems to avoid witchcraft. The passage also reports that the sages
in the Land of Israel did not concern themselves with some of these
matters. These stratagems were based on the prevailing beliefs at the
time and in at least one case a stratagem is reported in the name of a
non-Jew who was an instructress for local witches. The Talmud
summarizes the discussion with the following sentence: "As a general
rule, those who are worried about such things may be affected by them;
those who are not worried about them are not affected by them". The
Meiri, a
commentator who lived some seven centuries ago wrote at the beginning
of his commentary on this passage of agada as follows: "In a few places
we have explained that in those times people believed in chants .. [and
other similar beliefs] ... and the sages did not try to uproot these
beliefs unless they were related to idolatry ..... and certainly [they
did not try to uproot these beliefs] where the people were so
accustomed to them that they could derive strength or suffer weakness
on their account, and
we see this in this passage where it states 'those who are worried
about such things may be affected by them; those who are not worried
about them are not affected by them'".

Most modern readers would probably agree with the Meiri that this
passage expresses an important psychological truth about the power of
suggestion and mass belief.

>
>     Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following
prayer
> every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a
slave.

Gentiles, women and slaves were not obligated under Old Testament lawn
to follow *all* the laws of the Torah. This was a prayer of thanks for
having been commanded to follow all of the law.

>
>     Shabbath 86a-86b . Because Jews are holy they do not have sex
during the
> day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have sex
during
> the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark.

This relates to the sanctification of marriage and the requirement to
always be modest. Marital relations are considered an essential part of
Jewish married life and the husband must do his utmost to provide for
the needs of his wife. The requirement to do this in the dark ensures,
apart from modesty, that the physical appearance of the husband or wife
is unimportant and what matters is making the act itself holy and
satisfying for both people in order to improve the marital bond. The
leniency allowed for a scholar is because he is more likely to be aware
of these requirements. In any case, this leniency only applies to
scholars in extenuating circumstances.

>
>     Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust"
tales from
> the Talmud: Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by
the
> Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million
Jewish
> children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.
(Ancient
> demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the
entire world
> at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion
Jews).

These passages are part of agadic passages which are literary
flourishes. The exact quotes are as follows:

"The voice is the voice of Jacob, and the hands are the hands of Esau";
the [first] voice [in the passage is the voice of weeping of Jacob's
children and] refers to Hadrian Caesar who in Alexandria of Egypt
killed sixty multitudes upon sixty multitudes, twice as many as left
Egypt [at the time of the Exodus]; the [second] voice [of weeping] of
Jacob refers to Vespasian Caesar who in the city of Betar killed 400
multitudes, and some say 4000 multitudes, and 'the hands are the hands
of Esau' refers to the wicked Empire [of Rome] which destroyed our
House [i.e. the temple] and burned our sanctuary and exiled us from our
land; another interpretation that can be attached to this verse is
...."

".... there were 400 synagogues in the great city of Betar and in each
one there were 400 teachers of children and each one taught 400
children .... [and the enemy] wrapped them in their scrolls and set
them on fire".

It is clear we are dealing with literary flourishes and poetical forms
of expressing the magnitude and pain of a great tragedy and not with
evidence of a documentary nature based on painstaking research to which
we have become accustomed in modern times.

>
>     A Revealing Admission Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked
of the
> rabbi whether some wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it
was
> defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a
Gentile
> touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to
worry, that
> the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the
thieves in
> Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews

Wine touched by a Gentile is neither defiled nor unclean. However, it
is forbidden for a Jew to drink it. In medieval times the story was
told of an anti-Semite who accused the Jewish doctor of a king of
secretly hating the king. The anti-Semite asked the king to offer his
doctor a glass of wine and see the Jew's reaction. When the Jew
declined to drink the wine the king demanded an explanation. The doctor
reportedly ordered a bowl of water to be brought and washed the king's
feet in it. Afterward he drank the water and explained that the
prohibition against drinking wine was a religious law and had nothing to
do with the wine becoming 'unclean' or any feeling of animosity toward
the king.

As far as the thieves of Pumbeditha, it is quite true that the majority
of thieves there were Jewish. The reason is that Pumbeditha was a town
which was almost entirely Jewish.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:38:25 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 03:58 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Andy wrote:
>    Mathews before reading  whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one
>is Gorman, that one is an  automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>----- Original Message -----    From:    Colleen    Jones    To:
>13texan@egroups.com    Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53    PM
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of    Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
>                    Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews
>is the most obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay
>though that we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this
>individual.
>        eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
>www.egroups.com - Simplifying group    communications
>
>
>            eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.

Regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:47:47 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 12:38 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:

>Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time is
>much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord. That
>hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!
>
>Regards to a racist,
>
>Philip Mathews

What do you do, just sit at your computer waiting for just anyone to write
so you can make a fool of yourself. You're a tired man(?) Mathews, just read
the response you gave very carefully to yourself. Now, don't lie to us and
say
it makes perfect sense to you. Heck, you know what the scary part is, maybe
it
does make sense to you.

Take care now, get some rest,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:54:33 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 06:13 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>Snead  wrote:

More of the truth about the talmud.

>
>More lies about the Talmud. Let’s look!

Yawn!!!



>Philip Mathews

Get some rest.

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Jewish Insecurity
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:58:51 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate, lies and
their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the non Jew
and even goes as far as to call them racial names. The old trick of the Jew
is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic. Then when
you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence. They
accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your remarks to twist
and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions that you ask.
    Not confrontational in a sense that they are insecure about themselves in
stature and looks. They are only users and feed on the weak and innocent.
They have been known to use  little children for their sexual pleasure
because a real adult is intimidating to them.
    To call others names and to question others intelligence is a way that
they try to elevate themselves above the reproach that they live under
because of the Talmud. This insecure race of people has done to much damage
to the Aryan people for me to be politically correct, So Jews, Do what you
did in Russia and make anti-semitism a capitol crime to shut my mouth.
To God be the Glory,
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:25:05 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....
----

Please select one of the following:

   o Talmudic Rabbi
   o An Aryan race traitor
   o A Dung pivot man on a Camel Farm
   o confused gentile
   o a koshered pickled drunk
   o Willie Martin playing a trick on us
   o a Jew looking for attention
   o aFence riding pharisee/sadducee

by going to the following Web form:

   http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=936498305079

Thank you!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:36:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=803
> At 03:58 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Andy wrote:

> >    Mathews before reading  whatever he has to say. Another
obnoxious one
> >is Gorman, that one is an  automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios,
Andy
> >----- Original Message -----    From:    Colleen    Jones    To:
> >13texan@egroups.com    Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53
PM
> >Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of    Popes' thoughts on the Talmud

> >                    Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that
Mathews
> >is the most obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him
stay
> >though that we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this
> >individual.
> >        eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> >www.egroups.com - Simplifying group    communications
> >
> >
> >            eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.

Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember Eddie,
the lurkers just listen. I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the list
Eddie?

Philip Mathews

>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Kadach
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:44:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=804
> At 12:38 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> >Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time
is
> >much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord.
That
> >hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!
> >
> >Regards to a racist,
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> What do you do, just sit at your computer waiting for just anyone to
write
> so you can make a fool of yourself.

What is it you do? Are you not doing the same thing? It must be very
frustrating for you not being able to mount much of an attack of
defense for your hateful, stupid, mindless philosophy. Frankly Eddie,
you're just not good enough!

 You're a tired man(?) Mathews, just read
> the response you gave very carefully to yourself.

I'm not tired at all. How could I become tired jousting with your ilk?
I do a couple of other things while I'm exposing your nonsense. Don't
you ever have anything to say on the topics being discussed, or are you
too frightened of exposing your pathetic ignorance. Don't bother to
answer.

 Now, don't lie to us and
> say
> it makes perfect sense to you.

If it doesn't why are you not showing why? I know, that would mean
demonstrating some understanding of what is being discussed, and since
you don't have a clue, you'll just nibble around the edges like a
starving rodent hoping to get his full before someone swats him good.

 Heck, you know what the scary part is, maybe
> it
> does make sense to you.

Poor Eddie, couldn't win an argument with his mangy dog!

>
>
> Take care now, get some rest,

I'm taking care, and prisoners. Work on your excuses for St. Peter.

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

>
> Ed Kadach
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:47:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 07:36 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
>Kadach wrote:

>> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.
>
>Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember Eddie,
>the lurkers just listen.

I'll be darned. The lurkers just sit there and "listen". To what,
their hearts beating? Like I said you do need to rest.

"WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTENCE OF OUR PEOPLE AND A
                FUTURE FOR WHITE CHILDREN."

Regards,

Ed Kadach

 I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
>Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the list
>Eddie?
>
>Philip Mathews

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:58:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806

> The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate,
lies and
> their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the
non Jew
> and even goes as far as to call them racial names.

Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been exposed
as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews. Notice
he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because he knows
nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some website
because they said bad things about Jews.

 The old trick of the Jew
> is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic.

The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't discuss the
Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
exposed.

 >Then when
> you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence.
They
> accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your remarks
to twist
> and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions that
you ask.

None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of well
known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of his
convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we know
why he can't, don't we!


>     Not confrontational in a sense that they are insecure about
themselves in
> stature and looks. They are only users and feed on the weak and
innocent.
> They have been known to use  little children for their sexual
pleasure
> because a real adult is intimidating to them.

Notice how he continues with this tirade of hate, angered at having his
lies exposed. He now resorts to even wilder accusations, which have
even less foundation than his Talmud lies. He's just not up to the
task. He has the desire to lie, but not the ability or fortitude to
defend them.

>     To call others names and to question others intelligence is a way
that
> they try to elevate themselves above the reproach that they live
under
> because of the Talmud.

I live under no reproach. Snead, however, lives under the reproach of
his lies, which he is afraid to defend, and his mindless hatred of
Jews, which he will one day have to defend to his maker.

 This insecure race of people has done to much damage
> to the Aryan people for me to be politically correct,

Snead, who doth protest too much, is the insecure one (races of people
are not insecure, but a racist wouldn't know that) and political
correctness has nothing to do with antisemitsm.

So Jews, Do what you
> did in Russia and make anti-semitism a capitol crime to shut my mouth.

Another lie. Pretty pathetic performance actually.

> To God be the Glory,

God abhors everything you stand for.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:02:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=807
> Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....

Methinks someone, having had their lies shoved down their throat, is
now resorting to childish games.

How does it feel, Snead, to discover that your hateful beliefs are so
easily exposed and refuted, and your ability to defend yourself, so
lacking?

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:04:17 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: sneadster@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Potpourii of Popes'  thoughts on the Talmud
>Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:06:11 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
>exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
>faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
>here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
>will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
>lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
>but not the hater.
>    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
>thought's  on the Talmud:
>***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
>kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
>doctrine."
>***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
>"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
>prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
>***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
>***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
>***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
>(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
>***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
>condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
>***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
>***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
>of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
>***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
>By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
>continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
>Religion with daily increasing audacity."
>***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
>    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
>religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
>truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
>Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
>Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
>noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
>eminently defended?
>Michael Snead
>14/88

Yes, Michael...so true....and have you ever noticed that even "Messianic
Jews" will speak against the Talmud?....even though the Talmud speaks of
Jesus in such a vile manner?....go figure.....I've asked "Messianic Jews" to
repudiate the evil doings of the Jews mentioned in Holy Writ; and have never
had even one speak against these evil deeds, or the evil spoken of in their
Talmud....Was Luther wrong?...I think not!

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:06:32 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=809
> At 07:36 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
> >Kadach wrote:
>
> >> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your
side.
> >
> >Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember
Eddie,
> >the lurkers just listen.
>
>
> I'll be darned. The lurkers just sit there and "listen". To what,
> their hearts beating? Like I said you do need to rest.

You've said nothing, as is your usual contribution. A fact lurkers will
realize as evidence of the emptiness of your "philosophy". I wish I
could clone a dozen of you Eddie, you make it so much easier!


>  I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
> >Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the
list
> >Eddie?

No answer I see, must have struck a nerve.

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:10:24 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=813
>
>
>
> >From: sneadster@aol.com
>
> >    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
> >exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
> >faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
> >here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
> >will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
> >lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
> >but not the hater.
> >    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
> >thought's  on the Talmud:
> >***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
> >kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
> >doctrine."
> >***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
> >"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
> >prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
> >***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
> >***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
> >***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
> >(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
> >***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
> >condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
> >***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
> >***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
> >of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
> >***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
> >By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
> >continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
> >Religion with daily increasing audacity."
> >***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
> >    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
> >religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
> >truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
> >Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
> >Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
> >noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
> >eminently defended?
> >Michael Snead
> >14/88
>
> Yes, Michael...so true....and have you ever noticed that even
"Messianic
> Jews" will speak against the Talmud?....even though the Talmud speaks
of
> Jesus in such a vile manner?....go figure.....I've asked "Messianic
Jews" to
> repudiate the evil doings of the Jews mentioned in Holy Writ; and
have never
> had even one speak against these evil deeds, or the evil spoken of in
their
> Talmud.

Why don't you cite excerpts of the Talmud you believe reflect these
views and we can discuss them. Or are you just lying through your teeth?

...Was Luther wrong?...I think not!

That is true, you think not!
>
> Hail Jesus' Victory!

Your evil, hateful message has nothing to do with Jesus' victory. You
will answer to him one day.

Philip Mathews

> David
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:17:37 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: maxwell99@webtv.net (Colleen Jones)
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes'  thoughts on the Talmud
>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-767-david_223 Sat Sep 04 12:53:48 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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>In-Reply-To: philnancy@aol.com's message of Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:48:37 -0700
>
>Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
>obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
>we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.

>

Deleted 9 philnancy messages that were posted only today....does this guy
work??

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 23:40:26 -0500
From: kelsey 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

As I have not followed his conversation
I cannot select one of the following,  but
I am interested in your findings.  This is a
neat thing that you have done!

sneadster@aol.com wrote:

> Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....
> ----
>
> Please select one of the following:
>
>    o Talmudic Rabbi
>    o An Aryan race traitor
>    o A Dung pivot man on a Camel Farm
>    o confused gentile
>    o a koshered pickled drunk
>    o Willie Martin playing a trick on us
>    o a Jew looking for attention
>    o aFence riding pharisee/sadducee
>
> by going to the following Web form:
>
>    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=936498305079
>
> Thank you!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
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Subject: [13texan] Talmud the book of intolerance
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:27:02 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com


The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

The Talmud
       4

    The GEMERA section of The Talmud serves as a commentary on the MISHNAH
and is the product of about three centuries of Jewish teaching. It comes from
an Aramaic word which means "the learning," or "commentary" on the MISHNAH.

The Babylonian Talmud covers a "tracate" of some 63 volumes which will fill a
12 foot bookcase. It is huge. It takes for granted that its students have a
full knowledge of Jewish "cultic purity."

    Cultic impurity is acquired by coming into contact with what is called a
"Father, child or offspring of uncleanliness." For instance, contact with a
dead body, contact with a person having a transmittable disease, objects made
of metal, wood, bone or cloth are also believed to be "fathers of
uncleanliness," if they have been touched by a dead body.

    Food and liquids also can be considered unclean. But unclean food does
not render dishes or eating utensils unclean. A liquid that has been made
unclean by coming into contact with a "father of uncleanliness" will make a
vessel unclean if it touches the inside of the vessel. If food touches a
person or vessel which is unclean, it automatically becomes unclean. It is
not always necessary to wash your hands before eating to prevent uncleanness,
but do as Rav taught and cover them with a napkin.

    It is this Pharisaical nit-picking over uncleanliness which Neusner calls
"literary greatness," but which caused Jesus to address the Pharisees in
Matthew 23:25-27 in the following manner: "Woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the
platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind
Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the
outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear
beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all
uncleanness."

    In Mark 7:3-9 the Christ said: For the Pharisees, and all the Jews,
except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the
elders. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not.
And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the
washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. Then the Pharisees
and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition
of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto
them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This
people honoureth me (God) with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
How be it in vain do they (the Jews) worship me, teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the
tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like
things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of
God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

    This is the stupidity of Judaism as it is taught by The Babylonian Talmud.

    The rabbis reveled in nit-picking. For example, they wrote that any
common food which they deemed unclean would be unfit for the Temple heave
offering. They even went as far as to declare "four removes," which were
stages of uncleanliness.

    The rabbis who wrote these purity rules ("commandments of men" as Jesus
called them) were common folks in Babylon who pretended they were priests.
They were the remainder of the Judahites from the House of Judah who were in
exile for their sins. They pretended that they were eating a meal in the
Temple in Jerusalem at the table of God. At this time, the Temple had been
destroyed and there was no such thing as a Jewish nation in existence
anywhere. The bulk of the House of Judah had been carried away by the
Assyrians who scattered them among the House of Israel so that they, too,
(just as the northern tribes of Israel) lost their identity as a kingdom. The
rabbis taught that by adhering to the rules they laid down, one could change
the commonplace into the holy. This captured the puzzling notion that if one
preserved the purity of a slice of bread, for instance, you somehow changed
it into "holy shew bread." As a result of these nit-picking rules of men,
which became the "traditions of men" Jesus spoke about, the Jews were taught
to eat their meals in an atmosphere of "cultic purity." Uppermost in their
minds was that every aspect of ritualistic eating must be fulfilled. To their
way of thinking, that began with the traditional grace before meals which
said: Blessed art thou, Lord our God, King of the world, who brings forth
bread from the earth.

    Therefore the food they ate had to be prepared with special ritualistic
procedures. We are not speaking here of the foods forbidden by the Scriptures
such as pork or shell fish, but of Kosher food which had to be approved by
the rabbi to be clean.

    The following example will illustrate the ridiculous trivia they mandate
and require of their congregations. The rabbi of the House of Shammai will
say, "He wipes his hands with the napkin and lays it on the table, for if you
say 'non the cushion' it is a precautionary decree lest the liquids which are
on the napkin become unclean because of the cushion and when the napkin is
used, it makes the hands unclean."

    Another interesting observation is that a Jew may eat "unconsecrated"
food without washing his hands, but it becomes a sin if "consecrated food" is
eaten with unwashed hands. Talk about splitting hairs!

    The Babylonian Talmud was originally written in both Hebrew and Aramaic,
and most of The Palestinian Talmud was written in Hebrew. The use of these
languages is not accidental. Therefore, we find that part of The Babylonian
Talmud known as the TANNAIM, which is comprised of "statements of standard
law" are in Hebrew, while the comments and analysis of the AMORAIN, are in
Aramaic. The editor's remarks are normally in Aramaic. Those parts written in
Hebrew will appear in normal type, while the Aramaic bits will be in Italics.
Boldfaced type is used for portions of the MISHNAH and the TOSEFTA.

    The idea that the "canon" (body of law) was completed at Mt. Sinai is not
accepted by the rabbis. They say that later teachings of the rabbis,
including that which was taught by themselves, are revelations from God. This
means that the basis for Judaistic belief is constantly open to new canonical
authoritative doctrines on both the law and Jewish theology. One group of
rabbis holds the position that: "You must first clean your house and then
wash your hands," while the other adamantly states: "If you say wash the
hands first, it turns out that you spoil the food." On the Sabbath, an
orthodox Jew is not supposed to move something from the private to the
domestic domain. The arguments between the rabbis surge back and forth as the
various houses vie for supremacy until the ordinary Jew is uncertain of what
course he should take.

    The religious Jew takes for granted that he may make decisions regarding
the Gentiles, or more accurately, the "goyim." Now most of the goyim could
care less whether or not the Jews say a blessing over their candles; or the
manner in which they sniff the incense, or sip their wine.

What difference does it make to us how the Jews do these things? However, the
orthodox Jew believes it makes a great deal of difference. Since the Jews in
most ages had very little control over the outside world, the world of the
Gentiles, the rabbis made a grand issue of enormous consequences the simplest
actions on the part of the Jew. When a man sat at the table to eat, his
napkin had to be placed in the correct position or it would become unclean.
In this, he thought he was the priest in the holy Temple.

    The rabbis managed to take the common things of life and turn them into
things of great importance. So the Jews were taught that if they obeyed God,
no one would ever rule over them, but if they disobeyed, the heathen would
get the upper hand. This, by the way, is the belief of most Kingdom Movement
people, and for once, the Jewish rabbis were right.

    Another Talmudic rule has to do with spices and incense. One rabbi says
that if a Jew is walking outside a village in which most of the inhabitants
are non-Jews and he smells a scent, he does not bless the smell. However, if
most of the people who live in the village are Jews, he blesses it. Another
rabbi says that even if most of the villagers are Jews, the Jew may not bless
the smell because Jewish women use incense for witchcraft. Another rabbi
says: "If a Jew is walking in a Gentile market and is pleased with the scent
of their spices, he is a sinner." And on and on it goes!

    These teachings are utterly inconsistent with the teachings of Moses, and
they are constantly arguing over non-essentials just as Christian monks once
did during the Middle Ages when a great argument raged over how many angels
could dance on the head of a pin.

    Arguments over whether to say "Amen!" over a blessing when you have only
heard part of it; whether to say "Amen!" after the blessing given by children
in a schoolhouse; whether to say a blessing when there is no oil available;
whether a physically dirty person is unfit to say grace; these are all part
of the nit-picking that goes on between the rabbis.

    An interesting, yet completely nauseating aspect of The Babylonian Talmud
is the robust sexuality of its laws concerning sex and women in particular.
For instance, the rabbis love to refer to a couple who have intercourse all
night long and they promise blessings to those who have sex two or more times
in a night. In fact, the more often the better as far as the rabbis are
concerned. But the sex act must be done properly according to their
ritualistic law.

    In their theory, if an unmarried man is legally engaged and has sexual
relations with an unmarried woman, the couple are considered to have
consummated a legitimate marriage union and are recorded as being legally
married. This is somewhat contrary to any law Moses ever recorded from God!

    The Torah prevents a woman from having sex during her menstrual cycle.
Then the discussion arose among the rabbis over whether it was better to have
sex in the light, or in the dark. Was it all right to have sex in any other
than a private condition? The pious could have sex in the dark, while the
ultra-pious cleared the bedroom of flies and mosquitoes before they engaged
in the act. Nothing was said about whether this was for religious purposes,
or for the comfort of the couple so engaged.

    The rabbis seemed to believe that a shy, modest person could not learn,
so they minced no words when it came to graphic description of the sex act.
Much of it was so filthy that it would not do to include it in this book. If
you want to know why the average Jewish person seems obsessed with sex, just
read The Talmud.

    Dr. Neusner freely admits on page 279 in his Invitation to the Talmud,
that The Talmud is "peculiarly modern in its systematic skepticism, its
testing of each proposition.... The Talmudist's first question is 'What is
the reason?"' He goes on to say that the Talmudic approach is to reason
things out, rather than accept them on faith. It was this Jewish thinking
that came close to destroying 20th century Christianity through the "higher
criticism" of German-Jewish scholars.

    Dr. Benjamin Freedman, a converted Jew, in his extraordinary book, Facts
are Facts! said: For every ounce of good you accomplish through the
conversion of a self-styled Jew to the Christian faith, you do a ton of harm
in another direction. Regardless of what anyone, anywhere and anytime may
say, events of recent years, everywhere, have established beyond the question
of doubt, that the Christian faith stands with its foot in the grave and the
other on a banana peel, speaking figuratively.

    The Christian faith stands at the crossroads of its destiny. The Divine
and Sacred mission of the Christian faith is in jeopardy today to a degree
never witnessed before in its 2,000 years of history.

    If the day ever arrives when Christians can no longer profess their
faith, as they profess it now in the Free World, then it will see the
beginning of its last days.

    The history of the world for the past several centuries and in current
events at home and abroad, confirms the existence of a conspiracy to destroy
Christian civilization. The world-wide plot of these diabolical conspirators
has been implemented while most Christians have been asleep. The Christian
clergy seem to be more ignorant, or indifferent to this plot than other
Christians. They seem to bury their heads in the sands of indifference and
ignorance. This has dealt a severe blow to the Christian faith.... Christians
need a spiritual Paul Revere to ride across the land, warning that their
enemies are closing in on them.

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Subject: [13texan] History of Judaism in the New World
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:47:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

THE TALMUD
5

History of Judaism in The New World

    Chapter Four

    The history of Judaism in the New World actually began with Columbus'
trip to the West Indies. On August 2, 1492, over 300,000 Jews were expelled
from Spain under royal edict because of their treacherous dealings with the
invading Moors from North Africa and for their unscrupulous business
practices. In many instances during the height of the Moorish invasion,
cities which were under attack by the Moslem hordes had their gates opened
from within by Jews who had been befriended by the city's inhabitants. On
August 3,1492, Christopher Columbus set sail to the west in an attempt to
find a short-cut passage to China. He took a group of five Jews with him.
These were not refugees by any definition, but were wealthy, prominent
businessmen who hoped to make a financial killing on the gold they expected
to find.

    The old wives'  tale that Queen Isabella sold her jewels to finance this
trip will not stand up under historical research. These Jews, who were known
as "maranos," had converted to Catholicism because it was to their advantage
to do so. At this time they wielded great influence in the Spanish court.
Luis de Santagel, who was an important Valencian merchant and the royal tax
collector, was one of these men who went with Columbus. Another was Gabriel
Sanchez, a relative of Santagel who was the royal treasurer of Spain. Their
mutual friend, the Jew Juan Cabero, the royal chamberlain in charge of the
royal house accompanied them also.

    There were four other Jews associated with this epic journey. Columbus'
interpreter, Luis de Torres; his surgeon, Marco, Benal, a physician; and
Alonzo de Ia Calle. Luis de Torres was the first European to set foot ashore
in the New World and the first to discover the use of tobacco.

    These Jews worked on Queen Isabella's imagination by telling her that
Columbus would discover unheard of riches, and that they would be able to
convert thousands to Catholicism. Isabella, being a very devout Catholic, was
moved by this to give her consent to the voyage. Santagel himself advanced
17,000 ducats, equal to about 50,000 pounds in modern money.

    All of the Jews who accompanied Columbus were richly rewarded for the
part they played in this work, and they repaid Columbus by betraying him
through a conspiracy engineered by the ship's doctor, Benal. Columbus landed
in a Spanish prison.

    From the very beginning, Jews gravitated to the New World, many settling
in what is now Brazil. But due to expected Jewish conduct, they were forced
to emigrate and headed north where they ended up in the Dutch colony under
Peter Stuyvesant, in what is now New York state. Stuyvesant had experience
dealing with the Jews in Holland and was reluctant to allow them into the
colony, but allowed them to remain because of the large sums of money they
invested in the Dutch East Indies Company. It is the same old story of greed
on the part of so-called Christians.

    From their base in New York, they became the backbone of the African
slave trade, owning most of the slave ships which plied the waters between
Africa and the New World with their pitiful passengers. Records in the public
library in Boston, Massachusetts, show the names of the Jewish owners of
these slave ships. They also owned most of the distilleries in the area which
distilled the rum that became a media of exchange for slaves in Africa.

    Jews were at first forbidden to enter public service, or open retail
stores in the thirteen colonies so they went into foreign trade. They made
New York City the principle port in the New World and this city has been
their paradise of gain ever since. To the International Jews, it is their
capital city. Some Jewish leaders in recent years have boldly declared that
the United States is their "Promised Land," and that New York City is their
"New Jerusalem."

    By the time of the American Revolution, there were about 4,000 Jews in
the colonies, most of them well-to-do traders. They helped the revolutionary
cause by lending large sums of money at exorbitant interest rates to the
revolutionists.

    By 1850, the Jewish population had increased to over 3,300,000. It would
be impossible today to list all the businesses controlled by American and
International Jews in this country, or to intelligently estimate the enormous
power they have over our government.

    From the height of their economic pinnacle, they control the entire
Babylonian money system of finance and industry. There is not a citizen among
us, man or woman, rich or poor, who does not in some way pay tribute to
Jewish money power. You can count on your fingers the preachers, politicians,
industrialists and educators who are not debtors to the Jews and therefore
not under their power.

    Jewish financial power resembles an "imp" which one cannot see, yet he
has his fingers in every pocket. He is especially experienced in the art of
seduction, having received his training from the "master seducer" of all.
(See John 8:44) He speaks to the captive Christian world and sneeringly says:
Worship me, and I will give you all of this; I will lead you to happiness.
This is the same tempting promise his spiritual father made to Christ in
Matthew 4:8 and 9. While he promises happiness, his promises lead to slavery
and horrible death.

    At the end of the Napoleonic Wars, a Jew from Frankfort, Germany, by the
name of Rothschild, borne on the wave of the power of gold, rose to
phenomenal prominence in Europe. He became the visible head of this Jewish
world power. All other Jews bowed to him. He was the king of world finances
and commanded the masses of world Jewry, as sure as Adolf Hitler ever
commanded the army of the Third Reich. It is impossible to calculate the
influence of this family for they had countless billions of dollars in wealth
and, at their beck and call, presidents and kings cringed at their spoken
word. They were as much the ruler of the world as any crowned head of state,
and their subjects were the countless millions who toiled in every country to
add to
their power and wealth.

    In the twentieth century this European Jewish family was challenged in
the New World by another Jewish dynasty, that of the Rockefeller clan. These
people hid their Jewishness under the facade of Protestantism and engaged in
a life and death financial struggle for world supremacy.

    The profits acquired by these international Talmudist bankers were used
to improve their social standings. They mingled with and intermarried into
some of the most prominent families of Europe and America, even into the
royal family of Britain. Their longing for supremacy in the Arts and Sciences
was part of their longing to be recognized by the cream of society. This
meant that they had to acquire power in literature, medicine, and public
education while controlling the professions of Law and Journalism. This they
set out to do.

    Today, Jewish journalists form a closely connected, powerful combine
composed of the most clever and industrious minds of Jewry who are dedicated
to the furtherance of International Talmudic Judaism. They have appropriated
the right to intervene in foreign affairs to the point where their
Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith (an unregistered agent of the
Israeli government, operating illegally yet with impunity in American
affairs) controls the American Congress. Powerful politicians, such as
Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas and Senator Percy of Illinois have
learned to their sorrow the price of bucking Zionist interests in Washington,
D.C.

    As Jews attained social status, they invaded the Christian world and
brainwashed Christians of various religious hues into accepting a false
theology that placed the Christ-haters in the position of being God's Chosen
who can do no wrong. Blinded by Jewish cries of "world brotherhood," and from
the cries of the National Council of Churches who epitomize apostate
Christianity, the clergy of America are befuddled by the humane appearances
of Jewish theories and seem incapable of perceiving the danger which
threatens the Christian world with extinction. Samuel Untermeyer, who
arranged for the International Boycott Conference in Amsterdam, Holland, in
July 1933, stated: ... the holy war ... in which we (Jews) are embarked, is a
war which must be waged unremittingly... the Jews are the aristocrats of the
world... this boycott must be against all German goods and services... we
will drive the last nail in the German coffin. This was long before there was
any sign of pressure against the Jews in Germany.

    During World War II, the Administration of President Franklin Delano
Roosevelt was literally overrun by Zionist Jews. There is mounting evidence
which has been surfacing over the years which proves that America was
deliberately led into World War II by the Zionist interests in Roosevelt's
Administration.

    The Hon. Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of Defense during world War II,
wrote in his daily diary for November 21,1941, two weeks prior to Pearl
Harbor: The President called a cabinet meeting this morning and told us that
he wanted us to be at war with Japan, but that he did not want it to appear
to the public that the United States had fired the first shot. Roosevelt then
went ahead to knowingly provoke the Japanese into an overt attack on Pearl
Harbor. This intrigue, better known as treason, came at a time when Roosevelt
was mesmerizing the American public with his "Fireside Chats," in which his
theme was, "Ah hate wah! And we'll nevah send American boys to fight on fawen
soil. Nevah! Nevah! Nevah!" All this while he was actively engaged in plans
to do just that!

    When Harry Truman succeeded F.D.R. in the seat of power in Washington, he
carried on in Roosevelt's footsteps and on May 15,1948, gave official
recognition to the terrorist government of the bandit State of Israel in
Palestine. Truman called these terrorists a "peace loving nation," which had
come into being through terrorist methods. Since that day, we have poured
countless billions of tax dollars into shoring up this little bandit state,
and by doing so have completely alienated the Moslem world which was at one
time our staunch ally.

    The pathway to Talmudic subservience has continued ever since, through
the Administrations of: Harry Truman; Dwight David Eisenhower, who was of
Swedish Jewish extraction; Lyndon Baines Johnson; Richard Milhouse Nixon;
Gerald Rudolph Ford; James Earl Carter; Ronald Wilson Reagan, and now George
Herbert Walker Bush. In actuality, President Bush has been the only president
since WW II who has ever said "No!" to the Zionists.

    Rather than endure the smears which they knew would come their way if
they bucked Zionist interests in Washington, the vast majority of Congress
have been willing to sell future generations of Americans into virtual
slavery to the Talmudic internationalists. They have become, for the most
part, spineless, egotistical people so taken up with the importance of their
political positions, that they believe they can do no wrong. They have become
guilty of the grossest hypocrisy of all times, as they deliberately evade the
one and all-important issue of who is controlling America. They are willing
to cooperate in the destruction of their own white race for a little
momentary security, popularity and power.

    There is no need in this book for me to provide the details of
Communism's Jewish origin, both of its brains and its financing. Suffice to
say that leading Jews have boasted for years of the part they played in its
establishment and success. It can be summed up in two statements; one made in
The London Jewish Chronicle, April 4,1918:
... there is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself; in the fact that so many
Jews are Bolshevists; in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism are consonant
(in agreement) with the finest ideals of Judaism and a statement made by the
Red Rabbi, Stephen S. Wise some years later. When asked his opinion of
Communism, he said: Some call it Communism; I call it Judaism.

    We will see the finest teaching of Judaism as they come into agreement
with the teachings of International Communism in The Talmud. The Jewish plan
for world conquest is not new. It was begun in the dusty halls of ancient
Babylon and has been carried on, secretly for the most part, until today it
stands on the verge of success. In 1902, the Grand Sanhedrin of
Constantinople laid down their Vengeance Protocol which called for them to
corner the control of the world's wealth. The Jewish Council which met at
Basile, Switzerland in 1879, drew up a far-reaching plan for world conquest
which has become known as the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion which
contains the "blueprint" for a world conquest. World Jewry, and their stooges
in the Christian world, call this work a counterfeit. But we must remember
that before there can be a counterfeit there must first be an original, and
one accomplished at forgery makes his copy as close to the original as
possible. So the question is not whether the Protocols are a forgery, but
whether world-Jewry is following their plan. "By their fruits ye shall know
them" and since the turn of the twentieth century, World Zionism has marched
to the plan of the Protocols.

    I will not go into the long and fascinating account of how World Jewry
gained control of American economics. This account is fully documented in my
book, The Great Conspiracy ,$3.00 pp. which details how the Talmudists gained
control over the economy of America.

    The Jewish writer, Maurice Samuels, in his book, You Gentiles, on page 23
states: I do not believe the primal difference between Gentiles and Jews is
reconcilable. You and we may come to an understanding, but never a
reconciliation. There will be irritation between us as long as we are in
intimate contact.

    The Apostle Paul termed it: Contrary to all men.. (I Thessalonians 2:15)

    On page 155 of this same book, Samuels says: We Jews, we the destroyers,
will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will ever meet our demands.

    Jeremiah, the Old Testament prophet, said in Jeremiah 9:5 and 6: And they
will deceive every one his neighbor, and will not speak the truth: they have
taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to
know me, saith the Lord.

    While the brainwashed preachers of America have told their people that
the Jews are the Chosen People, the risen Son of God, Jesus our Lord and king
said to them in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9: "...I know the blasphemy of them
which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan."

    Our Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian churches are inspiring the
enemy of Christianity by putting a cloak of respectability around the
Talmudic enemy. If the truth were known among Christians at large, the
Talmudists would come tumbling down from their lofty perch. How the
Talmudists must laugh in secret as they see national religious leaders such
as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson glorify God's worst enemies.

*****************************************************************
Working on:
 "Jews Who Have Denounced the Talmud"
coming soon to a post near you
BY: MICHAEL SNEAD

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:19:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@a