The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/l/lagace.ivan/cremation.001

Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 17:46:44 GMT
From: Jeff 
Message-ID: <>

In article: <44o60m$> 
(John Morris) writes:
> Two points. Christie did produce a crematorium expert, Ivan Lagace of
> Calgary, who operates a a funeral home there. The question that still
> bugs me is why Christie had to go 2,000 miles to get his expert. I
> want to find out more about Lagace.

Like if he is registered? Or he has a Phd in Cremation science? 
Or any other dirt you can dig up. 

Notice that despite the fact it is some time since the Zundel trial, no 
other cremation experts who will categorically  refute Mr Ivan Lagace have 
been produced. 

The anti-revisionists afaik can't even find ONE cremation expert to 
repudiate what Ivan Lagace said at the Zundel trial. 

The following extract is just part of the testimony of Ivan Lagace, "a 
funeral director and crematorium manager and operator from Calgary, Alberta. 
Lagace has disposed of more than 10,000 bodies since 1976, and cremated more 
than 1000 since 1984. He has handled victims of fire, accident, and disease, 
and has seen every stage of bodily decomposition."

He was accorded EXPERT status at the Zundel trial.

Lagace next explained some calculations he had made after studying the plans 
for the 46 retorts at Birkenau.(Auschwitz II)
Christie [defence counsel for Zundel] asked him how these compared to the 
plans for his own crematorium.
"Well," said Lagace, "When I first looked at these [Birkenau plans], I was 
amazed." The specifications were almost identical to his own retort, 
including the unusually high 45-foot stack. Based on the afterburner design, 
he added, it is obvious they were concerned with environmental effects. 
There would be no smoke and no odor."

Flames are shooting out of a 45 foot chimmey, yes a FORTY FIVE foot high 
chimmey! According to some "eyewitnesses" the flames must have been OVER 60 
feet long! 

This is what Jamie McCarthy said to me in private email. Which he then 
published on the net, because I hadn't emailed a response quick enough, so 
it's been seen before on the public domain.  

jr> But everything about the Holocaust is weird. Flames shooting 12 feet out 
of crematorium chimmeys which also blech smoke [they don't],
jMcC> > Flames:  invention.  Smoke:  quite plausible.
jr> It's in many suvivor testimonies....READ SOME!

jMcC> I have.  What did I say above?  Flames are dramatic invention, as far 
as I've been able to tell.  The smoke on the other hand was almost
certainly real, based on what I've read of the cremation ovens that were

So Jamie McCarthy, says the Flames are DRAMATIC INVENTION. 

Lagace estimated that the 46 retorts at Birkenau could handle about 184 
bodies daily, or four apiece.
But, asked Christie, what about Raul Hilberg's estimate of 4,400 cremations 
per day at Birkenau?
"Well," said Lagace, that's preposterous, in my eyes. It's beyond the realm 
of reality."

> Lagace's testimony was quite worthless. He testified as if the
> Auschwitz Kremas operated just like modern funerary crematoria rather
> than like blast furnaces.

But the extract continues :- 

Christie asked if operating 24 hours a day would raise the output.
Just the opposite, insisted Lagace, it would shorten the lifespan of the 
refractory" and create costly delays.
Christie read to Lagace from Hilberg's account of a period in 1944 when 
about 10,000 Jews a day were allegedly being gassed at Birkenau, and asked 
again if the 46 retorts could have cremated 4,400 of the victims daily.
Lagace: It would be ludicrous to say something like that.

[Extracts from Page 252 of "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst 
Zundel by Robert Lenski.
available from:- The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport 
Beach, CA 92659 USA.

The crematoria which operated in the "function" of incinerators according to 
a earlier post of Mr Morris, now operate like blast furnaces!

The nazis in building Crematoria built them to operate in the actual 
function of "incinerators". In other words, the Nazis built crematoria to 
disguise the fact that they were "incinerators". Instead of building 
"incinerators" they built "crematoria". Which now operate like 
blast-furnaces! blah blah blah blah 

And what is the best way to incinerate a corpse or even many corpses? It's a 

Look at the following crematory "estimates" for Birkenau.....

SS-Sturmbannfurhrer Jahrings letter    -------       4,756 a day. 
[this includes Auschwitz I] 
Polish Commission of Inquiry       ----------------- 12,000 a day. 
Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz,            -----  16,000 a day. 
Inmate Olga Lengel's estimate                ------- 17,280 a day. 
Inmate Dr Nysizli's estimate                -------- 20,000 a day.

Even Mr Karen has trouble with the "SS letter", a document which is classed 
by British Author David Irving as "highly dubious". ie a fake. 
The "ss letter" has no security classification, despite the premise that the 
"gassings" were "top secret". The crematory rates in the letter are even too 
much for Mr Karen, who suggests that the SS overestimated. The document is 
addressed to the senior works engineer of the SS, SS-General Kammler, who 
ordered the bloody things in the first place. IMHO, he certainly wouldn't 
haven't either asked for or needed such info.  

The other estimates are also rubbish. Produced for, no doubt, propaganda 

> I seem to recall that the judge had to stop Christie from testifying
> several times while he examined witnesses. Christie's behavior was not
> considered acceptable in a Canadian court. Christie may also have been
> reprimanded by the Canadian Bar Association or overstepping the kind
> of advocacy noramlly allowed to lawyers, but I'd have to do some
> research to see if I remember that right.

I also recall the judge directing the jury to accept the "holocaust" as 
historical fact, [I think this also happened in the Mandelstein(?) case v 
the IHR]. This was up to the jury to decide, as it was pivotal to the entire 
Still it's par for the course.

Take David Irving for example.

Says in a speech in Germany that the gas chamber at Auschwitz is a fake. 
[Which it is.]
Fined 3000 marks. Appeals. Fine raised to 10,000 marks. Appeals again. Fine 
raised to 30,000 marks.
Barred entry into Canada for having a "criminal" record in Germany, and 
Barred entry into Australia, for being deported by Canada.
Arrested on spurious "contempt of court" [this a ruling by a court in 
Germany!] without any notice or warning.   

And the rest.


            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)


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