From email@example.com Thu Oct 17 09:17:20 PDT 1996 Article: 75176 of alt.revisionism Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!zilker.net!usenet From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Mike Curtis) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Miracle on 54th street-In and Out of the Gas Chamber! Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 15:03:31 GMT Organization: Zilker Internet Park, Inc. Lines: 343 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: mike.aimetering.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99f/32.299 email@example.com wrote: [HEADERS DELETED] > [Please refer to the prior post for Mr. Blackmore's quotations. I've cut it here for reasons of length. If you wish a copy of his quotes then email me your request.] >Source: The Belsen Trial, pg. 79, 80, 81. >Comment: Now, I would be most interested to >hear how the faithful explain away this little >episode of another mendacious witness. Mr. Blackmore is certainly quick on the draw when it comes to accusing people of mendacity. Perhaps if his humanity and compassion had not been worn down to nothingness by his affiliation with the purveyors of hatred, he might place himself in a similar circumstance as the witness Litwinska might have faced. For the record, the book is being consulted is: _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER AND FORTY-FOUR OTHERS_ (The Belsen Trial) ed. Raymond Phillips, M.C., M.A., B.C.L. (Oxon.), 1949, William Hodge and Company Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would be so kind as to offer details of the version he is consulting, as it would appear that only one edition of the book has been published. >The whole story reeks with impossibilities >and complete fabrications. Mr. Blackmore ought to understand the principle of "convergence of evidence" a bit better before making such outrageous statements. The first issue that one should address is: "Was there a gas chamber in Dachau in December, 1941?" _AUSCHWITZ - 1270 to the Present_ Deborah Dwork & Robert Jan van Pelt c. 1996, W. W. Norton ISBN 0-393-03933-1 [Page 301] "The morgue of the crematorium in the main camp had been transformed in September 1941 into an effective gas chamber which could hold 900 people..." It was therefore possible for the witness Litwinska to have been in the chamber on Christmas eve, 1941. >According to this "eyewitness", the people in the gas chamber >were about ready to tear each other apart, so that >if left to their own devices, no gas was necessary to >kill them. There is no such insinuation in the testimony of the witness. Mr. Blackmore is allowing his febrile imagination get the better of him. From: _TRIAL OF JOSEF KRAMER..._ [Pages 79-80] "Seventh Day - Monday, 24th September, 1945" "SOPHIA LITWENSKA, sworn, examined by Colonel Backhouse -- I am 29 years of age, from Lublin, Poland, where I was arrested on 19th May, 1940, because I was a Jewss. I received no form of trial, was first kept at Lublin for a year and then sent to Auschwitz where I arrived in the Autumn of 1941. My husband, who was not a Jew, was a lieutenant in the Polish Army and was arrested also. [...] When you reached the crematorium what happened there? The whole truck was tipped over in the way they do it sometimes with potatoes or coal loads, and we were led into a room which gave the impression of a shower bath. There were towels hanging round, and sprays and even mirrors. I cannot say how many were in the room altogether, because I WAS SO TERRIFIED [emphasis mine], nor do I know if the doors were closed. People were in tears; people were shouting; people were hitting each other. There were healthy people, strong people, weak people and sick people, and suddenly I saw fumes coming in through a small window at the top. [...]" It is improbable that the witness would have seen fumes coming in through a small window at the top. Sophia Litwenska was probably in severe psychosomatic shock, something not unlikely under the circumstances. I will allow that she probably did not see "fumes coming in through as small window at the top." Certainly not hydrogen cyanide fumes. She could have, however, seen other fumes. ( See _Auschwitz Chronicle..._ July 28, 1941 as quoted below). She could also have seen a handful of smallish pellets raining down on her and her fellow prisoners but, like Mr. Blackmore's observations, this is simple rumination. I would beg the readers to consider how they would react to a similar stimulus under such Dantesque conditions. "What was the next thing you remembered? - At that moment I heard my name called. I had not the strength to answer it, but raised my arm. Then I felt someone take me and throw me out from that room. Hoessler put a blanket round me and took me on a motor cycle to the hospital, where I stayed six weeks." Was Hoessler in Auschitz at the time? was he involved in the gassing process? Were other gases used in the early days of the extermination process to murder prisoners in/from Auschwitz? Let us analyse another example of convergence: From _AUSCHWITZ CHRONICLE..._ [Page 75] "1941 -- July 28" "[...] Following Dr. Schumann's orders, the transport is sent to Sonnenstein under the direction of Roll Call Leader Franz Hoessler. A report to Hoess that Hoessler makes after his return states that the prisoners were gassed in a bathroom where carbon monoxide gas was introduced through the showerheads." [Page 177] "1942 -- April 15 "[...] The new department retains SS Technical Sergeant Franz Hoessler, SS Corporal Goebbert, and SS Corporal Heinrich Schoppe as Labor Managers." (Other citations for Hoessler appear on pages 178, 238, 252, 255n, 275, 298, 398, 470, 472, 499, 530, 531, 533, 634, 718, 751, 775. This would indicate that Hoessler was a person of some importance in the camp. Is it remotely possible that Hoessler's relationship with the witness was more than that of a simple rescuer?) > Aside from all this, she states that she "saw fumes >coming in through a small window at the top." She does state this. See above. > How interesting.... Only to those of a ghoulish nature. >Further, her statement about healthy and strong >individuals being placed in the chamber is contrary to >everything written about the purpose of the selections. Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would care to define the date when the selection process was initiated. Perhaps he would also like to assert that healthy and strong individuals of both sexes were not murdered by gassing, shooting, hanging or any of the other methods described in the literature. Perhaps he would further like to assert that there are not a myriad of instances in the literature that document such deaths. >Her lapse of memory was merely a self-serving device to >avoid being pressed for detailed information. Mr. Blackmore must prove what he asserts. He does not know what might have caused any possible lapses of memory in the witness. > Also, her statement that she had been in the gas chamber >1 to 2 minutes is nothing more than a complete fabrication. >No one could be exposed to cyanide gas for that length of >time and come out alive. Mr. Blackmore makes an excellent observation that will no doubt embarrass his companions in denial. For many months we have been attempting to convince said persons that hydrogen cyanide (in sufficient concentration, of course) will kill a person in a very few minutes. We thank Mr. Blackmore for his kindness. It is quite true that the witness would have perished if the level of hydrogen cyanide had reached a concentration of some 300 parts per million. We do not know, however if: (a) This level had been reached when the rescue took place. Reaction to hydrogen cyanide gas was greatly anticipated by the irritant and lachrymogen that was originally included in the Zyklon-B pellets. If, for example, only a small amount of Zyklon-B had been dropped in the chamber, the irritant and lachrymogen would have caused a dreadful reaction not unlike the one described by the witness, but it would not have been lethal. Is it _possible_ that Hoessner, realizing that this woman was in the chamber could have stopped the process before more than a small quantity of Zyklon-B was dropped in the chamber? Mr. Blackmore might question _why_ Hoessner might have saved this young woman. Let him use his excellent powers of imagination. (b) The witness might have been taken elsewhere for "processing" such as the bathroom described above. (c) A gas different to hydrogen cyanide might have been employed in the early days of this gas chamber. All of the above are suppositions, some bearing more weight than others. They are surely no less valid than Mr. Blackmore's undocumented appreciation of the testimony. If he allows himself to speculate, we can not do less. >Conveniently she also failed to notice whether her rescuer >was wearing a gas mask or not, and the very idea that a guard >could simply walk into the gas chamber and escort her out >without a full riot on his hands is absurd. If Mr. Blackmore would consider option (a) above, he would understand why the witness might not have been able to establish whether or not her rescuer was wearing a gas mask. > Also, her testimony that she heard her name being called in >all that pandemonium is laughable, considering how much >screaming would have been going on as the people realized > they were going to be "gassed". Improbable, but not impossible. If scenario (a) above is played, the screaming would have been greatly reduced. I challenge Mr. Blackmore to yell loudly with a lungful of, say, 2-Bromobutanoic acid, or of 2-Bromo-1-phenylethanone acting on his mucous membranes and eyes. >The witness further reduced to commit herself to an actual >number, but it would have been significant, as she had testified >that "health, strong, weak, and sick" people were all herded in >to the "gas chamber". So who was counting? I challenge Mr. Blackmore to give an exact, indeed an approximate count of the persons that are herded (together with himself) into a darkened room, under gunpoint, unclothed, terrified, with the premonition that they will not emerge alive. > Anyone who has read even a minute amount of material on >the history of Auschwitz would find her statement that she >recuperated in the hospital for six weeks after the alleged >gassing to be ridiculous. Not altogether ridiculous. She has stated that it happened, Mr. Blackmore cannot prove that it did not happen. If Miss Litwinska was saved from the gas chambers by an important member of the SS, it is not improbable that she would have been under his protection during her stay in the hospital. Hoessler was not entirely without human sentiments. From: _AUSCHWITZ CHRONICLES..._ [page 499] "1943 -- October 4] "[...] No. 155910 is given to Josef Gomez, born on April 18, 1943. According to a report by his mother, Anna Gomez, she hid the newborn with the aid of fellow prisoners. When this infant is discovered and the boy threatened with death, the mother pleads with Camp Commander Hoessler, who permits her to keep the child." > Finally, I cross referenced Hoessler's testimony ... Indeed? Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would illuminate us with a complete citation of the documents and reasonably accurate and un-editorialised renditions of this testimony. Apart, of course, from that which is found in _TRIAL OF KRAMER ..._ to which we will refer to below: >... regarding this incident and of course, he denied it. Did he, now? [Pages 195-197] "Evidence for the Defendant Franz Hoessler" "FRANZ HOESSLER, sworn, examined by Major Munro - I am of German Nationality, was born in Oberdorg in Schwaben on 4th February, 1906. I am a photographer by profession. [...] "Do you remember the witness Litwenska saying that you took her out from the gas chamber? - Yes, but it was someone else whom I TOOK FROM THE GAS CHAMBER (emphasis mine). Those who had been selected were in trucks and went down in the direction of the crematorium. I was on the road when one of these trucks passed by, and I saw a woman whom I recognized in the back of the truck. Suddenly two women came and implored me to save her. I saw a motor cyclist near the block facing me, and I told him to go and fetch the woman AND TAKE HER TO THE HOSPITAL (emphasis mine). SHE HAD NOT BEEN INSIDE THE GAS CHAMBER (emphasis mine). Had she been inside the chamber or not,? Is not the witnesses' testimony just a little to close to that of her captor not to bear some credibility? Did Hoessler have or not have the power and the ability to save some persons (mostly women?) from the gas chambers? [Page 198] (Hoessler's testimony continues) "Did you do anything to prevent people from being sent to the gas chamber? - Yes, very often young girls came to me (*) and implored me, saying that their sister or their friend or somebody else they liked was in Block 25 and I should try to save them, and I have done so. [...]" (*) Does the reader discern a pattern here? Now, I am truly curious to see if anyone in Nizkorland >will make an attempt to defend this preposterous story and obvious >LIE. No longer preposterous, one might observe, from the testimony shown above. Mr. Blackmore's feeble attempts at abusive humor (Nizkorland) are noted together with his inability to understand the process of converging evidence. Perhaps Mr. Blackmore would consider giving this subject some rest before his credibility is totally shattered.
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