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From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 16 08:36:40 PDT 1995
Article: 10839 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.conspiracy,can.politics
Subject: Re: The Dachau Gas Chamber exposed!
Date: 13 Oct 1995 01:12:24 GMT
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It has taken me a while, but I've finally procured a copy of "Crime
Doctor"[1] to check out Mr. Lemiere's claims that he attributed to Dr.
Larson. In this post I will address the issue of Allied ariel strafing of
Daschau inmates. 

First, a little refresher of Mr.Lemiere's claims, please bear with me:

In article <42jd22$al7@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:

> >In article <41motj$9v1@mail.inforamp.net>, cpn@euphoria.com (Marc Lemire) 
> wrote:
> >
> >> Actually the Allies did quite alot to the camps.  Firstly they bombed the 
> >> rail system which broke down Germany's ability to get food to the
inmates.  
> >> But they did more than that to the rail system.  While the Germans were 
> >> moving  around inmates the Allies would rake the top of the rail cars with 
> >> 50 Cal guns.  The 50. cal guns are mounted on Allied air planes.  
> >> 
> >> So not only did the Allies kill the Inmates on the way to the camps
> >> (which the Germans were blamed for) they also shut down the food system, 
> >>for which the prisoners were fed.
> >

[To which I replied:]

> >Will you provide documented evidence to support these assertions please? I
> >am most interested in the alleged bombing of the rail system that would
> >have stopped the shipment of foodstuffs but somehow allowed the continued
> >deportation of several hundred thousand Jews from Hungary to Auschwitz. 
> 
> I got the information on the rail system from the book "crime doctor" by Dr. 
> Charles Larson.  I don't have the book here in front of me, but Dr. Larson 
> mentions that the rail cars were shot at with .50 cal machine guns.  Which 
> were on the Allies planes.  


So says Mr. Lemiere. Now for Dr. Larson's account from "Crime Doctor," p. 46:

"Part of the team made its temporary headquarters in Seeshaupt, near
Munich. About two days before Major Larson arrived, Allied bombers had a
field day with key targets in ans around the town , and during the raid a
freight train full of concentration camp prisoners was strafed. 'Some were
shot by German machine guns as the easiest way to keep them from escaping
in the confusion.' Dr. Larson recalled.

"When Major Larson arrived, all the prisoners were dead in the cars. He
took pictures with an old 35 mm Kodak of the evidence showing the dead
crammed together like cattle. He autopsied a representative example to
indicate that while some had died from shots from above during the
strafing runs of the plane, most had been done to death by machine gun
fire from both sides of the track.

Hmmm, obviously, not all is as Mr. Lemiere would have us believe. First,
the train was strafed by Allied aircraft in the process of legitimate
military operations near the front. (Trains _were_ legitmate military
targets, not to mention that Dr. Larson arriving on the scene within _two_
days of the incident attests to its proximity to the front.) It is
therefore logical to assume that this was an unfortunate example of
"collateral damage," as it is safe to assume that Allied planes had little
idea that death camp inmates were on a train so close to the battlefield. 

However, it is quite damming of Mr.Lemiere's motives to present the
"Seeshaupt Incident," which took place around May 5 1945, as an act of
Allied brutality. Especially so when, in fact, it was the _Nazis_ guarding
the train who machine gunned to death the majority of the prisoners in
cold blood to prevent them from escaping in the confusion that resulted in
the air attack. Mr.Lemiere has either maliciously distorted Dr. Larson's
recounting of the event, after reading it, or maliciously presented
hearsay after he misleadingly implied that he had read the book. There's
really no other credible explination, as Dr. Larson's recalling of the
event is rather clear about it being Nazis who were the ones who committed
the actual attrocity. 

So, Mr. Lemiere has lied again. Why am I not suprised? 


Mark


1. 78-16403: McCallum, John Dennis, 1924-  Crime Doctor : Dr. Charles P.
Larson, world's foremost medical-detective, reports from his crime file 
Mercer Island, Wash. : Writing Works, c1978.  x, 262 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
LC CALL NUMBER: RA1025.L37 M3 1978

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 16 08:39:29 PDT 1995
Article: 11144 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The Dachau Gas Chamber EXPOSED, by a Medical Doctor
Date: 13 Oct 1995 02:16:19 GMT
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It has taken me a while, but I've finally procured a copy of "Crime
Doctor"[1] to check out Mr. Lemiere's claims that he attributed to Dr.
Larson. In this post I will address the issue of Dr. Larson's performing
autopsies on concentration and death camp prisoners. 

First, a little refresher of some of Mr.Lemiere's claims, please bear with me:

In article <42jc53$al7@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:

> >> >The man did, as you claim 100 autopsies a day? Lets see, that would make
> >> >roughly a little over four per hour if he went twenty four hours. At best
> >> >that means he did oen every fifteen minutes. No, considering that he did
> >> >not work for 24 hours straight, and the he also looked at 300 bodies
> >> >superficially, I fail to see how any work that he did could be considered
> >> >accurate - it takes a normal pathologist even with todays technology much
> >> >much longer than fifteen minutes to examine a body. Either you have your
> >> >facts mixed up, you are lying, or Lawson is a fraud.
> >> 
> >> You also must consider that he was working quite closley with the
> >> American Lab in Paris, which did all the medical tests(ie toxicology,
etc).  
> >> I would also assume that he had other Medics helping him.  The medics
would 
> >> probibly get the bodies for Dr Larson to investigate and also assist
him in 
> >> the Autopsies. 
> >>  
> >
> >Regardless of who did all the tests, it still takes more than fifteen
> >minutes to perform a proper autopsy -even with help. Larson could not have
> >accomplished what he claimed, unless his work was so shoddy as to be
> >unreliable.
> 
> I agree with you here.  100 a day does seem like quite alot.
> 
> I can only speculate the exact number a day, since I am not a patholigist and 
> I am not Dr. Larson.
> 
> I assume that when the person who helped write the book with Dr. Larson,
could 
> have maybe blew up the figure a bit. But then again, I don't really know.
>  
> >> So far I have not seen any evidence that he is a fraud.  Do you have any 
> >> evidence that might lead you to believe that Dr Larson is a fraud?
> >
> >Stay tuned.
>  
> OK Ghandi, can't wait.


Well, wait no more, Mr. Lemire. From "Crime Doctor," p. 57-58:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Subject: Investigation of Attrocities at Kauffring Camp #4 near Hulach,
Germany. (Hulach is near Landsberg).

"On May 1, 1945 I inspected 286 bodies lying in the compound of the above
camp. The examination as to the cause of death was of necessity quite
superficial and hurried. The cause of death could be roughly divided into
three catagories:

"1. 86 bodies were so severely burned that the burns themselves were
undoubtably the cause of death. Sworn statements of witnesses indicate
that these individuals were locked in the barracks at the compound and
that these buildings were deliberately set on fire with the attempt to
destroy all these bodies by the Germans shortly before the American troops
liberated this camp.

"2. 11 bodies were shot either in the head, chest or abdomen or in
different combinations of the above wounds sufficient to be the cause of
death.

"3. 189 bodies showed no gross external cause of death. All of these
bodies, as well as those in the foregoing two classifications, were
extremely emanciated; many of them had large decubitus sores, and all were
lice-infested. According to witnesses, typhus was present in this camp and
some could have died of this disease. However, according to other reliable
testimony, these individuals were murdered by hypodermic injection of an
unknown poison a matter of hours before the Americans liberated the camp.
The German doctor for the camp- a 'Dr. Blanke' -was seen to have used a
large srynge with a needle and to have injected this unknown poison into
these individuals. The result of the injection was death in from five to
20 minutes. Death was precedeeded by generalized convulsions. In a search
of the camp and of 'Dr, Blanke's' home and office, no clue was found as to
the type of poison used. From some autopsies performed, the brain and
portions of the liver, the spleen, the heart and one kidney were retained
for transmission to the First Medical Laboratory in Paris for
toxicological exanimation to determine the type of administered. (Author's
Note: Major Larson later recieved reports from FML in Paris that the
organs he had sent in for toxicological examination on three autopsied
cases were _negative_ for all poisons.)  In one autopsied case the
individual had pulmonary tuberculosis which was bilateral and rather far
advanced. There was no gross cavitation, and about 
75 percent of the lung tissue contained air and was not completely
replaced by the tuberculosis except for some recent bronchogenic
dissemination. No focal tuberculosis was found in other organs of the
body. This autopsy was performed under field conditions with no water
available.

"The testimony suggested that some of those poisoned recieved injections
over the heart. No needle wounds were observed on the heart in the cases
autopsied. 

"Dr. Blake committed suicide a few minutes before the Americans arrived in
town and, according to testimony, his death was due to poisoning
self-administered, supposedly the same type used on the prisoners in the
compound. He aslo murdered his wife by the same means before taking his
own life.

"Thirt-one additional bodies were found in the woods lying on the ground
in a somewhat scattered position a few hundred yards from the compound.
Superficial examination of these bodies showed that 17 of them had died as
a result of gunshot wounds; mostly multiple and probably from machine gun
fire as whole extremities were amputated on some. Fourteen of these bodies
showed no visable external cause of death and were also supposed to have
been poisoned. Numerous photogrphs were taken to corrborate this report.

"SIGNED: Major C.P. Larson, M.C.
Pathologist (50th General Hospital)
D.S. with War Crimes Team 6823.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for evidence of Dr. Larson being a fraud? I'm tending do doubt that
rather much. In the book's forward (p. v)  Dr. Larson was so described:

"A cosmopolitan, Dr. Larson was born in Eleva, Wisconsin, had his early
education at Gonzaga Univerity in Washington, obtained his medical degree
>from  McGill University in Montreal, Quebec, and pursued specialty training
in pathology at the University of Michigan and University of Oregon
Medical Schools...

"...He has served as president of the major professional organizations in
pathology. Service to his country as a colonel in the United States Army
culminated in his being appointed pathologists for the War Crimes
Investigating Team in the European Theater of Operation in 1945.

"Dr. Larson was a founding member of the American Academy of Forensic
Sciences in Chicago in 1948 and 1966 was a founding member of the National
Association of Medical Examiners.


Mark


1. 78-16403: McCallum, John Dennis, 1924-  Crime Doctor : Dr. Charles P.
Larson, world's foremost medical-detective, reports from his crime file 
Mercer Island, Wash. : Writing Works, c1978.  x, 262 p. : ill. ; 22 cm.
LC CALL NUMBER: RA1025.L37 M3 1978

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Jan 12 09:28:52 PST 1996
Article: 19748 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Liberation of the camps.. *FACT* VS LIES
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:10:23 -0700
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In article , aq220@freenet.toronto.on.ca
(Marc Lemire) wrote:

Ah, Marc, I see you're back and posting denier trash from the IHR. Well,
as usual, you are posting more lies. (Even if they are somebody  else's
lies.) A habit with you, I suppose. Let me comment upon the more blatant
(and easily refuted) ones: 

> Dr. Larson's findings? According to an interview he gave to an
> American journalist in 1980, "What we've heard is that six million
> Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax."^2 And what part
> was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his
> knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the
> entire European Theater,"^3 informed "Wichita Eagle" reporter Jan
> Floerchinger that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."^4
> Neither Dr. Larson nor any other forensic specialist has ever been
> cited by any Holocaust historian to substantiate a single case of
> death by poison gas, whether Zyklon-B or any other variety.  

How odd. According to Dr. Larson:

"The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another.
However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those
prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with
them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however,
they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium where
the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then
ordered to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped
in cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the
bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened
to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly
and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles.
But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally
examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities
were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was
imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or
function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi
called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting
well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination
was the answer." [1]

I do believe this is called "lying by omission." The fact is that Dr.
Larson _clearly_ intimates that prisoners in Dachau _were_ killed with
cyanide gas. In fact, by his statement: "...in my opinion, only relatively
few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this
manner" it is implicit that Dr. Larson, in his capacity as a U.S. Army
_forensic_ pathologist (the only in Europe, lest we forget), _determined_
that prisoners had died from cyanide poisoning.  (Note that it would be
unsurprising that ³relatively few of the inmates² would have been found to
have died from gassing as one could assume they would have been  cremated 
fairly soon afterwards .)

> In reality, while camp commandants in certain cases did
> inflict physical punishment, such acts had to be approved by
> authorities in Berlin, and it was required that a camp physician
> first certify the good health of the prisoner to be disciplined,
> and then be on hand at the actual beating.^10 After all, the camps
> were throughout most of the war important centers of industrial
> activity. The good health and morale of the prisoners was critical
> to the German war effort, as is evidenced by a 1942 order issued by
> SS-Brigadefuhrer Richard Glucks, chief of the office which
> controlled the concentration camps, which held camp commanders
> "personally responsible for exhausting every possibility to
> preserve the physical strength of the detainees."^11  

According to Dr. Larson, "...the Germans patrolled the camp area with
specially-trained police dogs, mastiffs and German shepherds. They were
stationed around the entire periphery of the camp. A few of them had been
particularly trained to inflict punishment upon those who committed
serious crimes within the camp. To make examples of them, and to deter
other prisoners... The offender was stripped and tied to crossed boards,
legs and arms spread and the animals let loose to tear the genitalia
off....When I got there, the cages were still in place but all the dogs
had been killed by the American troops who liberated Dachau." [2]

In addition, the ³Auschwitz Chronicle" states that at Auschwitz on March
23, 1944, that "...1,200 convalescents and patients whose rapid recovery
to the point of being able to work seems questionable are transferred to
Birkenau and lodged in Barrack Number 4, later Number 7, the so-called
isolation ward of Section B-Ib. The sick are unloaded in the courtyard of
the barrack and are beaten to death with rods by SS men. The corpses of
the murdered men are brought back to Auschwitz and incinerated in the
crematorium...." [3]

And in a newspaper article from Suddeneutsche Zeeitung, on Nov. 25, 1945,
it was reported in regards to the Dachau trials: "In the course of the
trial different witnesses have described to an overcrowded court room the
brutal methods employed by the camp and subsidiary camp leaders for whom
the prisoners were welcome game in the satisfaction of their almost
pathological sadism. All witnesses report the same: scenes of beating,
torture, homicide, murder of hostages, deliberate contamination with
malaria, pus injections for experimental purposes, and operations carried
out on healthy persons..." [4]

This sure doesn't sound like the camp commandants were held very
"responsible"  for "exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical
strength of the detainees," now does it? But perhaps they never really
were? What a thought. 

Such a load of garbage you post, Marc! Not even origional garbage but
_recycled_ garbage from the IHR! Sloppy, sloppy, Marc. Tsk tsk. But then,
what should I _really_ expect from a person who pimps for deniers,
anti-Semites, and racists with a "Hard-Core White Racialist Canadian
BBS?"  

Mark



Sources:

1. "Crime Doctor" McCallum & Larson, p. 61.
ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403.

2. "Crime Doctor" McCallum & Larson, pp. 61-62
ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403.

3. ³Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945²/ Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p.143. Reference: APMO, Hoss Trial, vol. 4, p. 88,
Account of Former Prisoner Stefan Wolny; D-AuI-5/2, Morgue Register, pp.
159ff.; D-AuI-5/3, Infirmary Register of Block 28, pp. 485-494; Czeslaw
Ostankowicz, ³Isolation Ward, ŒLast¹ Block,² _HvA_, no. 16 (1978): 159ff.

4. This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 221; (Plate 447 with translation.) in regards to
the an article from Suddeneutsche Zeeitung, 25.11.45, entiled "Game for
Sadists."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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