The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kleim.milton/kleim-10q

Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Nine Questions for Milton Kleim (Round 25)
Summary: A challenge to Milton Kleim to demonstrate his alleged interest
         in historical truth and accuracy by answering direct questions
Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA

Original publication: 1994/03/11
Last-Modified: 1996/06/04

To Milton Kleim:

You have been asked, many, many times, to answer the questions which
follow, in order to substantiate claims you have made in this
newsgroup.  To date, you have refused to respond, other than to offer
unsupportable claims.

This is my twenty-fifth request to you, asking that you respond to these
questions, and it will not be the last. Your first and only response to
these questions failed to address them; one can only hope your next
attempt will include some factual evidence - something you appear reluctant
to provide.

Question #1: You have stated that the Nazis used poison gas to kill
  mentally retarded and insane people in the "T4" murders, but that no
  gas chambers were used.  You have claimed that the gas was
  administered by different methods.  (You claim that "gas masks,
  hoses, and gas cylinders" were used.)

  You have avoided answering this question for over two years. Can you 
  cite your source for this claim?  If so, will you explain why your 
  source is valid, while the myriad sources citing the use of
  gas chambers in the euthanasia program, including those below, are

   "Hartheim also received shipments from Dachau and Ravensbruck.
   Even prisoners who might have worked were eliminated in this
   situation.  Gold dental work was removed and sent to the T4
   center.  Apparently so many prisoners were designated for
   killing that gassing was resumed at Hartheim.  The facilities
   there were finally dismantled in December 1944, at which time
   the turn-of-the-century Renaissance castle became a children's
   home, intended to camouflage what had happened there.  At
   Hadamar, this was the point at which slave laborers from the
   East, diagnosed categorically as `tubercular,' were being
   injected on SS orders." (Klee, "Euthanasie"[6],pp.  352-55;
   Kogon, Massentoetungen, pp.  77-78)

   "Of the number of people killed in the T4 and the 14f13
   projects, the following statistics are usually given: adult
   mental patients from institutions, 80,000 to 100,000; children
   in institutions, 5,000; special action against Jews in
   institutions, 1,000; concentration camp inmates transported to
   killing centers (14f13), 20,000 (Klee estimated that at the
   end of 1941, some 93,521 `beds' had been emptied for other
   uses [70,000 patients gassed, plus over 20,000 dead through
   starvation and medication] -- in other words approximately
   one-third of the places for the mentally ill.)<27> But these
   figures may well be too low; twice these numbers of people may
   have perished.  The fact is that we do not know and shall
   probably never know.  Elements of deception, imposed chaos,
   and the destruction of many records make anything like an
   accurate estimate impossible." (Klee, "Euthanasie" pp.
   340-41; Lothar Gruchmann, "Euthanasie und Justiz im Dritten
   Reich," Vierteljahrshefte fuer Zeitgeshichte 20 [1972],244)

   Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in

   Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia
      and sent by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose,
      by what methods were the mercy deaths given?

   A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the
      written formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these
      formalities here, they were physical examinations, comparison
      of the files, etc.  The the patients were led to a gas chamber
      and were there killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas

   Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?

   A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
      container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel

   Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
      suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the

   A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail.
      Bouhler's basic requirement was that the killing should not
      only be painless, but also imperceptible.  For this reason,
      the photographing of the patients, which was only done for
      scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
      chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
      Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were told
      was a shower room.  They were in groups of perhaps 20 or 30.
      They were gassed by the doctor in charge."(ToWC, Vol. 1,

   "Concerning the `humanity' of this form of killing claimed by
   Brandt, another man who worked at Hadamar and looked into the
   gas chamber through a side window spoke of `a horrible sight
   when the patients gradually collapsed and fell over one
   another,' and added, `I shall never get this picture out of my
   mind." (Lifton)

Question #2: On November 7, 1993 (, 
  you made the following comment:

   "So it is with our movement today.  The Jewish Occupational
   Government that dictates orders to the Sabbath Goiim serving
   as administrators for America and Canada will wield power
   proportionally to the level of psychological enthrallment that
   can be maintained over the Aryan race in North America."

   Please provide documented proof that a "Jewish Occupational
   Government" exists, and that the Canadian government takes
   orders from this group. Name the representatives from this group,
   and provide proof that the Canadian government obeys their orders.
   You have failed to provide this documentation for over two

Question #3: On the 17th.  of December, 1993, writing in
  <>, you made the following

   "You are referring to the Holocaust Myth, an unproven thesis
   that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the
   National Socialist German government."

  You have been asked to provide documented proof that the Holocaust
  is a "myth," and, to date, have failed to provide a _single_
  citation in response.  You have failed to provide this citation for 
  over two years; please do so now.

Question #4: You have stated that you do not believe that Heinrich
  Himmler made the often-quoted Posnan speech.  When it was pointed
  out to you that the original recording of the speech exists, along
  with Himmler's original notes, and that even "revisionist
  historians" accepted that the speech was genuine, you remained
  silent.  Please provide proof that the original recording is a fake,
  that Himmler's notes for the speech are forgeries, and that
  "revisionist historians" are lying. As I recently noted, I am
  willing to underwrite 50% of the cost of a voiceprint analysis of
  this speech. To date, over $1500 has been pledged by users in this
  newsgroup. (Your offer of $20 is noted, and I'm still waiting for
  your proof that the speech is a fake.) We have waited for
  your proof for over two years.
Question #5: You have asserted that "it would be extremely dangerous
  to use Zyklon B for the extermination of humans in the rooms your
  side claims are 'gas chambers'; please document this claim, and
  demonstrate how existing documented evidence is false.  Please
  document your assertion that the gas chambers at Auschwitz did not
  exist. We have waited more than two years for you to provide
  such proof.

Question #6: You demanded that documentation be provided for the
  assertion that "National Socialism advocates lying and deception to
  the People." Please comment on the following information, provided
  by Bill Scarborough, then comment on your own lies, as
  outlined in Question #9:

   In this post, I will refer to the Manheim edition of _Mein
   Kampf_.  I point to Chapter Six (pp 176-186 in the Manheim

   In page 177, your Hitler says that _propaganda_ is a means to
   an end.  Now, let us get into the Newspeak that Hitler uses in
   _Mein Kampf_.  Your Hitler refers to his own communications as
   propaganda; he refers to communications from Jews as lies.
   This is a nice technique often used by Hitler's disciples in
   the "Christian" Right.

   In page 179, your Hitler says that (lies/propaganda) should be
   directed "always and exclusively to the masses." Your Hitler
   expands on this.  By addressing communications to the masses,
   your Hitler does not mean addressing the concerns of poor
   working people as would the Marxists your Hitler hated.  He
   means to appeal to the most base emotions.

   In page 180, your Hitler writes: "The receptivity of the
   masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their
   power of forgetting is enormous.  In consequence of these
   facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few
   points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member
   of the public understands what you want him to understand by
   your slogan." In other words, your Hitler openly bragged about
   using the Big Lie and exhorted his followers to do the same.

Question #7: You have taken to your bosom the title of "Student of
  Jewry," and then asserted the following:

   1. That the Talmud was written in Hebrew, and
   2. That Yiddish is the "Holy language" of Jews

   Since both of these assertions are blatant falsehoods, please
   explain the basis for your belief, and provide supporting 

   You have refused to back up your incorrect statements for
   over two years. Perhaps you should retract them.

Question #8:

   In article <>, you wrote:

   >Mr.  Ken McVay, there are many unanswered questions about your Net
   >activities, the answers to which reflect upon your credibility.  

   In response, I replied, in part:

   Please explain how the questions you have asked reflect upon the
   credibility of the material within my archives.  (In addition, as I
   am now receiving the active support of the Committee for Racial
   Justice, in Vancouver, B.C., you might also explain how this fact
   will affect the credibility of the material contained in the archives.)

   I have waited over two years for you to answer this question, Mr. 
   Kleim. Why is it that you refuse to deal with it?

Question #9:

   On December 27, 1995, during a particularly vitriolic
   attack on a user, you including the following threat; one
   which seems to include an open and honest statement of your
   intention to exterminate Jews:

      Come, come, Mr. Weltner.  You are not White.  You are a 
      member of that eternal pest, the self-chosen people.  The 
      truth of the matter is that we Whites will do just fine 
      without you Jewboys; we did for thousands of years, and we 
      will once again after we've done what EVERY people who have 
      had to deal with your kind has done. (Kleim, Traitors...)

   Twenty-four hours later, however, the following disclaimer
   was added to a query concerning the aims of "white

      We do not seek to oppress or otherwise harm non-Whites, 
      including Jews. However, we are prepared to do what is 
      necessary to secure our biological and cultural heritage.  
      The establishment of an "Aryan Confederation" will be as 
      peaceful, or as painful, as non-Whites, in particular, 
      Jewry, wish it to be. (Kleim, What is the aim...)

   The question, or request, if you will, is that you, Mr.
   Kleim, explain the clear hypocrasy demonstrated in the two
   statements above, and, lest there be any confusion, explain
   how the National Alliance plans to "do what every people
   have had to do" to the Jews without "oppressing or otherwise
   harming" them?

To date, you have failed to respond to my query, although it has
been repeated several times, so it now appears here as my eighth 
question, where it will remain until you _do_ respond.

It has been well over two years, Mr. Kleim, since I first
brought these questions to your attention, and yet, although
you have certainly had ample time to demonstrate the validity
of your comments, you have been unable to do so. Why is that,
Mr. Kleim?

                           Work Cited

   kleim, milton. UseNet alt.politics.white-power. Subject: "Re: 
   Traitors in Our Midst...", Dec. 27, 1995.  Message-ID:

   kleim, milton. UseNet alt.politics.white-power. Subject: 
   "Re: What is the aim of White Nationalists?," Dec. 28, 1995. 

   Lifton, Robert Jay.  The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the
   Psychology of Genocide.  London: Papermac, 1986 (Reprinted

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