Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white Subject: Nine Questions for Milton Kleim (Round 25) Summary: A challenge to Milton Kleim to demonstrate his alleged interest in historical truth and accuracy by answering direct questions Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Followup-To: Organization: The Nizkor Project, Vancouver Island, CANADA Original publication: 1994/03/11 Last-Modified: 1996/06/04 To Milton Kleim: You have been asked, many, many times, to answer the questions which follow, in order to substantiate claims you have made in this newsgroup. To date, you have refused to respond, other than to offer unsupportable claims. This is my twenty-fifth request to you, asking that you respond to these questions, and it will not be the last. Your first and only response to these questions failed to address them; one can only hope your next attempt will include some factual evidence - something you appear reluctant to provide. Question #1: You have stated that the Nazis used poison gas to kill mentally retarded and insane people in the "T4" murders, but that no gas chambers were used. You have claimed that the gas was administered by different methods. (You claim that "gas masks, hoses, and gas cylinders" were used.) You have avoided answering this question for over two years. Can you cite your source for this claim? If so, will you explain why your source is valid, while the myriad sources citing the use of gas chambers in the euthanasia program, including those below, are not? "Hartheim also received shipments from Dachau and Ravensbruck. Even prisoners who might have worked were eliminated in this situation. Gold dental work was removed and sent to the T4 center. Apparently so many prisoners were designated for killing that gassing was resumed at Hartheim. The facilities there were finally dismantled in December 1944, at which time the turn-of-the-century Renaissance castle became a children's home, intended to camouflage what had happened there. At Hadamar, this was the point at which slave laborers from the East, diagnosed categorically as `tubercular,' were being injected on SS orders." (Klee, "Euthanasie",pp. 352-55; Kogon, Massentoetungen, pp. 77-78) "Of the number of people killed in the T4 and the 14f13 projects, the following statistics are usually given: adult mental patients from institutions, 80,000 to 100,000; children in institutions, 5,000; special action against Jews in institutions, 1,000; concentration camp inmates transported to killing centers (14f13), 20,000 (Klee estimated that at the end of 1941, some 93,521 `beds' had been emptied for other uses [70,000 patients gassed, plus over 20,000 dead through starvation and medication] -- in other words approximately one-third of the places for the mentally ill.)<27> But these figures may well be too low; twice these numbers of people may have perished. The fact is that we do not know and shall probably never know. Elements of deception, imposed chaos, and the destruction of many records make anything like an accurate estimate impossible." (Klee, "Euthanasie" pp. 340-41; Lothar Gruchmann, "Euthanasie und Justiz im Dritten Reich," Vierteljahrshefte fuer Zeitgeshichte 20 ,244) Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany: Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what methods were the mercy deaths given? A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files, etc. The the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO). Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process? A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel container. Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the chambers? A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's basic requirement was that the killing should not only be painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the photographing of the patients, which was only done for scientific reasons, took place before they entered the chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby. Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps 20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge."(ToWC, Vol. 1, 876) "Concerning the `humanity' of this form of killing claimed by Brandt, another man who worked at Hadamar and looked into the gas chamber through a side window spoke of `a horrible sight when the patients gradually collapsed and fell over one another,' and added, `I shall never get this picture out of my mind." (Lifton) Question #2: On November 7, 1993 (1993Nov7.email@example.com), you made the following comment: "So it is with our movement today. The Jewish Occupational Government that dictates orders to the Sabbath Goiim serving as administrators for America and Canada will wield power proportionally to the level of psychological enthrallment that can be maintained over the Aryan race in North America." Please provide documented proof that a "Jewish Occupational Government" exists, and that the Canadian government takes orders from this group. Name the representatives from this group, and provide proof that the Canadian government obeys their orders. You have failed to provide this documentation for over two years. Question #3: On the 17th. of December, 1993, writing in <1993Dec17.firstname.lastname@example.org>, you made the following statement: "You are referring to the Holocaust Myth, an unproven thesis that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the National Socialist German government." You have been asked to provide documented proof that the Holocaust is a "myth," and, to date, have failed to provide a _single_ citation in response. You have failed to provide this citation for over two years; please do so now. Question #4: You have stated that you do not believe that Heinrich Himmler made the often-quoted Posnan speech. When it was pointed out to you that the original recording of the speech exists, along with Himmler's original notes, and that even "revisionist historians" accepted that the speech was genuine, you remained silent. Please provide proof that the original recording is a fake, that Himmler's notes for the speech are forgeries, and that "revisionist historians" are lying. As I recently noted, I am willing to underwrite 50% of the cost of a voiceprint analysis of this speech. To date, over $1500 has been pledged by users in this newsgroup. (Your offer of $20 is noted, and I'm still waiting for your proof that the speech is a fake.) We have waited for your proof for over two years. Question #5: You have asserted that "it would be extremely dangerous to use Zyklon B for the extermination of humans in the rooms your side claims are 'gas chambers'; please document this claim, and demonstrate how existing documented evidence is false. Please document your assertion that the gas chambers at Auschwitz did not exist. We have waited more than two years for you to provide such proof. Question #6: You demanded that documentation be provided for the assertion that "National Socialism advocates lying and deception to the People." Please comment on the following information, provided by Bill Scarborough, then comment on your own lies, as outlined in Question #9: In this post, I will refer to the Manheim edition of _Mein Kampf_. I point to Chapter Six (pp 176-186 in the Manheim edition.) In page 177, your Hitler says that _propaganda_ is a means to an end. Now, let us get into the Newspeak that Hitler uses in _Mein Kampf_. Your Hitler refers to his own communications as propaganda; he refers to communications from Jews as lies. This is a nice technique often used by Hitler's disciples in the "Christian" Right. In page 179, your Hitler says that (lies/propaganda) should be directed "always and exclusively to the masses." Your Hitler expands on this. By addressing communications to the masses, your Hitler does not mean addressing the concerns of poor working people as would the Marxists your Hitler hated. He means to appeal to the most base emotions. In page 180, your Hitler writes: "The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan." In other words, your Hitler openly bragged about using the Big Lie and exhorted his followers to do the same. Question #7: You have taken to your bosom the title of "Student of Jewry," and then asserted the following: 1. That the Talmud was written in Hebrew, and 2. That Yiddish is the "Holy language" of Jews Since both of these assertions are blatant falsehoods, please explain the basis for your belief, and provide supporting documentation. You have refused to back up your incorrect statements for over two years. Perhaps you should retract them. Question #8: In article <1994Aug19.email@example.com>, you wrote: >Mr. Ken McVay, there are many unanswered questions about your Net >activities, the answers to which reflect upon your credibility. In response, I replied, in part: Please explain how the questions you have asked reflect upon the credibility of the material within my archives. (In addition, as I am now receiving the active support of the Committee for Racial Justice, in Vancouver, B.C., you might also explain how this fact will affect the credibility of the material contained in the archives.) I have waited over two years for you to answer this question, Mr. Kleim. Why is it that you refuse to deal with it? Question #9: On December 27, 1995, during a particularly vitriolic attack on a user, you including the following threat; one which seems to include an open and honest statement of your intention to exterminate Jews: Come, come, Mr. Weltner. You are not White. You are a member of that eternal pest, the self-chosen people. The truth of the matter is that we Whites will do just fine without you Jewboys; we did for thousands of years, and we will once again after we've done what EVERY people who have had to deal with your kind has done. (Kleim, Traitors...) Twenty-four hours later, however, the following disclaimer was added to a query concerning the aims of "white nationalists": We do not seek to oppress or otherwise harm non-Whites, including Jews. However, we are prepared to do what is necessary to secure our biological and cultural heritage. The establishment of an "Aryan Confederation" will be as peaceful, or as painful, as non-Whites, in particular, Jewry, wish it to be. (Kleim, What is the aim...) The question, or request, if you will, is that you, Mr. Kleim, explain the clear hypocrasy demonstrated in the two statements above, and, lest there be any confusion, explain how the National Alliance plans to "do what every people have had to do" to the Jews without "oppressing or otherwise harming" them? To date, you have failed to respond to my query, although it has been repeated several times, so it now appears here as my eighth question, where it will remain until you _do_ respond. It has been well over two years, Mr. Kleim, since I first brought these questions to your attention, and yet, although you have certainly had ample time to demonstrate the validity of your comments, you have been unable to do so. Why is that, Mr. Kleim? Work Cited kleim, milton. UseNet alt.politics.white-power. Subject: "Re: Traitors in Our Midst...", Dec. 27, 1995. Message-ID: DK7ytq.firstname.lastname@example.org kleim, milton. UseNet alt.politics.white-power. Subject: "Re: What is the aim of White Nationalists?," Dec. 28, 1995. Message-ID: DK9xnw.HGy@freenet.carleton.ca Lifton, Robert Jay. The Nazi Doctors: Medical Killing and the Psychology of Genocide. London: Papermac, 1986 (Reprinted 1990)
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