The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/followups-empty


Warning:  this is a collection of articles from Matt Giwer that contains
not a single byte of thought from him.  Each of these is simply a
followup to an article, usually with the entire article quoted, and one
of his "stock" files appended.  Usually, it is hard to figure what the
appended file has to do with the quoted text;  in the cases where they
do have marginal relevance, it's probably just random coincidence.

Articles which include a great deal of quoted text, no typed response,
but also _no_ appended tagline, have _not_ been included here.  This file
is designed to show Giwer's intentions to waste bandwidth and time by
means of irrelevant appended files.  I've been scrupulous about avoiding
content;  once I pasted in 150 lines of spam only to discover that there
was one line of insult that I missed, so I deleted it.

As for why Giwer would reply with nothing but a "tagline," see his
bragging about the length and irrelevancy of those taglines in:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/the-longer-my-tagline

See also:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/followups-why

And:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/followups-one-liner

   - Jamie McCarthy (jamie@voyager.net), June 25, 1996

(groan) This is a lot of work and I may not be able to keep it up much
longer.  We're up to 200K and no end in sight.

Also, note the comments of DThomas ("DvdThomas") on Mr. Giwer:

   "Spamming," unless I misunderstand the term (which could be the case)
   does not seem to apply to what is going on here[...]  If you don't
   like his posts, don't read them.

For the full context, see
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/nyms/dthomas/dthomas-on-giwer

   - Jamie, July 1, 1996

Up to 600K now.

   - Jamie, July 10-11, 1996






From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I Witnessed a Gassing'  Giwer Lies still
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 06:06:24 GMT
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 19 11:08:10 PM PDT 1996
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:

>The Gwier liar, witnessed nothing. With the possible exception of 
>kiddie porno. Take a look at his home page and he has the balls to 
>call other people ugly. This has to be one of the worst dipsticks on 
>earth. He's really a troller, but a real dumb troller, and he even 
>admits that he's a troller, and stupid too, while bragging about an 
>alleged IQ of 40-60 something. He's so easily nailed when he bluffs, 
>when he's caught at it, not a peep. I'm a third rate holohugger 
>according to Giewer, and he may be right, but even this old fart can 
>best the Gweir Liar. It's so easy, 'cause he's so fu---ing dumb. Ask 
>him about The Nazi camp Theresienstadt. He mentioned it one time, BS 
>and when challenged, he never mentioned it again. This turkey is 100% 
>bluff. Can't prove a thing, can't be humiliated like ordinary folk, no 
>pride at all. A fool, a joker, a clown. A human waste basket.
>Chuckles, idiot extraordinaire

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 



From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A match made in heaven?
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:26:37 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4poio9$4ui@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:


>>I do hope the Giwer-troll sees this one.  Looks like if he played his
>>cards just right, he might be able to persuade this societal misfit that
>>she should pay him some attention.  They obviously have a great deal in
>>common.  I think they'll get along famously.

>>Just imagine! Ingrid will be able to add their thanks to her growing list
>>of appreciative testimonials.

>>And If we are *really* lucky, H*berlette and Giwer-troll will get so
>>involved in their off-line personal correspondence that they will forget
>>all about posting their hate-filled fact-bereft drivel to this newsgroup.

>>And we'll all post happily ever after. Well, I can dream, can't I?!

>To dream....the impossible dream......



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                 
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 




From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.politics
Subject: Re: Are the media inaccurate?  Griswald tha turkey
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:11:37 GMT
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:

>Dear Lester,
>In response to your very thoughtful post of this date, I just wanted 
>to express my deep gratitude for your message, which I'm sure comes 
>from the heart and is well intended.

>You must have seen the great photo of me posted by Jeannie. You should 
>look so good when you're a grizzled old fart. (but you should also 
>live so long). 



>Les Griswold wrote:
>> 
>> Grizzled old fart Chuckles Ferree (chuckf@rio.com) writes:

>clipped all the cheap shots out. But I did mean for you to take my 
>advise seriously. Took me many years of self control to learn those 
>lessons, which I pass on to you for free and I hope in time.

>> Jealous, old man?  What you used to be able to do all night, it now takes
>> you all night to do?

>Not really, just about ten minutes longer, but it's still a beautiful 
>thing. And no kids lurking around the corners.
>> 
>> But really, Chuckles, such filthy talk ill suits a distinguished man such
>> as yourself.

>I'm sorry if my advise offended you, Leslie, my boy, it was said with 
>the best of intentions, and your health and welfare in mind. 

>  After all, you're a hoity-toity hollow-causer, one of those
>> Americans who was everywhere and saw everything.

>Yeah, just about everything there is to see. Plus I've done everything 
>I ever wanted to do. 
>How about you?
>I ask you now,  hoity-toity? Is that a wholesome way to put it? The 
>other phrase escapes me: hollow-causer, sort of sounds like something 
>the Giwer Liar would say. You are maybe low-down, but are you saying 
>that you're at his level? I mean that is one very sick man!


>  Should you really be
>> talking about solitary vices?

>Oh, that's O.K. when you reach the grizzled old fart stage of life. A 
>vice is a vice, not too many left. 
>> 

>> > Even as an old fart, I can still cause punks like you to holler for
>> > help.
>> 
>> :-)

>Right! If you ever see me in a dark alley, better speed it up, cause 
>it's all over quick.
>:-)

>Guess the matter of gas chambers in Dachau is settled then. You lose.

>Chuck
>> Les


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 




From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I Witnessed a Giwer Brainstorm (Re: 'I Wit
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 19:58:22 GMT
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X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:59:50 PM CDT 1996
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> 
>[About a repulsive article Giwer posted regarding Hilary Ostrov]
> 
># I hope that lurkers in this newsgroup will carefully note this
># article.
> 
>Indeed. And the following one, that Giwer posted yesterday:
> 
>
> 
># Message-ID: <4pu1ju$3s6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
> 
>[...]
> 
># Despite your fantasies, you are still fat and you have zero 
># abilities to merit the title of co-webmaster were you not laying 
># some one at Nizkor.
>#
># You know that and it is obvous here.  
>#
># You are, of course, another piece of shit from the vanity site
># of Nizkor.  
> 
>

>163 IQ points the Giwer claims to have; 163, not a point less.


>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Soap, soap and more soap
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:55:35 GMT


4/30/81: 
     The editorial page of the Los Angeles Times contains a piece by
Rachel Patron, who
     claims that as a Polish Jew she was shipped off to Siberia by the
Soviets during WWII (and
     you thought all Polish Jews were captured and gassed by Nazis). Ms.
Patron goes on to
     state that on later passing through Ukraine on her return to Poland
she found a shed full of
     soap made from Jews. Isn't it interesting how these Holocaust
survivors can remember
     seeing things that never existed? 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I Witnessed a Gassing'
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 05:32:57 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q4jel$l2c@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:

>>
>>In <4q2lan$2t2s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
>>wrote:

>>[snip] 

>>>I hope that lurkers in this newsgroup will carefully note this article.  I
>>>also hope that Ms. Ostrov will not do what the Giwer-troll is trying to
>have
>>>her do, and that is engage in a flamewar.  That is his usual tactic when
>he
>>>is being decimated in an argument: descend into the gutter where he feels
>at
>>>home and try to drag the other person down there with him.

>>Oh, ye of little faith!  Mr. McFee, apart from having no interest in any
>>lies the gutter-troll might spew in my direction, the only flamewars I
>>engage in are against those who have the wit (or at least half a wit) and
>>wherewithal to defend themselves.  Me, flame a witless gutter-troll?! 
>>That would be most unfair (not to mention unladylike!), and I would
>>_never_ stoop so low to conquer:>)

>I am confirmed in my faith that you would not be induced to descend to the
>level of the Giwer-Troll, as easy a victory as that would have been.  I am
>sure you, like the rest of us, have noticed that the Giwer-troll's venom
>increases in direct proportion to the extent to which he is being bested in
>an argument and being revealed for the witless, vile, lying, evil person
>that he is.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                        


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I Witnessed a Gassing'
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:40:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

>># hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>## As an example, those who know me will confirm that I stand 5' ## tall
>>and weigh slightly under 100lbs.

>># The only person who knows you is the one you are laying for the #
>>co-webmater in your sig.  You have no idea what you are doing, fat #
>>broad.
>>#
>># Despite your fantasies, you are still fat and you have zero abilities #
>>to merit the title of co-webmaster were you not laying some one at Nizkor.
>>#
>># You know that and it is obvous here.
>>#
>># You are, of course, another piece of shit from the vanity site of #
>>Nizkor.

>>Remember, folks, it's Matt Giwer, the man with the alleged IQ of 163, who
>>wrote all this.

>Impressive, no?

>>Must have been a long day with the bottle, eh Giwer?

>I suspect most of his days are like that.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>             
JAPANESE WAR CRIMES TRIALS 

        While Germans were being convicted of making human "soap" (taken
seriously in the seventh edition of Oppenheim and Lauterpacht's
prestigious International Law, vol. II, p. 450) Japanese defendants were
being convicted of making human "soup" in repeated trials. 

        This is not a misprint; it was considered a "proven fact" in 1948 - a
"fact" proven in numerous "trials" - that the Japanese are a race of
habitual cannibals who were forbidden upon pain of death from devouring
the corpses of their own dead, but who were officially encouraged to eat
Americans. Americans were served fried, or as soup; people were eaten
when other food was available. Thus, the Japanese engage in cannibalism
out of choice rather than necessity. Favourite human body parts for
culinary purposes are liver, pancreas and gall bladder; Chinese are
swallowed in pill form! 

        Among the "trials" in which this was "proven" are U.S. Tachibana Yochio
and 13 others, Mariana Islands, 2nd-15th August, 1946; Commonwealth of
Australia vs. Tazaki Takehiko, Wewak, 30th November 1945; Commonwealth
of Australia v. Tomiyasu Tisato, Rabaul, 2nd April 1946; and the most
complex war crimes trial in history, the International Military Tribunal
for the Far East (IMTFE) personally supervised by Douglas McArthur,
which lasted from May 1946 until December 1948 (see The Tokyo Judgment,
vol. 1, pp. 409-410, University of Amsterdam Press 1977, pp. 49,674-5 of
mimeographed transcript. 

        The 25 defendants who survived trial were all convicted; 7 were hanged. 

        Their crimes included: 

        Planning, initiation and waging "aggressive war" against the Soviet
Union (the Soviet Union attacked Japan two days after Hiroshima in
violation of a Non-Agression Pact; on this same day the London Agreement
was signed, pursuant to which the Nuremberg Trial was held); planning,
initiation, and waging "aggressive war" against France (France is in
Europe); illegal sea blockade and indiscriminate population bombing
(case against Shimada), that is, the actions of the British in Europe
would have been illegal if committed by the Japanese; trial of war
criminals before a military tribunal (case against Hata and Tojo; see
also U.S. vs. Sawada, probably the most disgusting and hypocritical
accusation of all; the victims were 7 Americans guilty of participating
in the fire-bombing of Tokyo in which 80,000 women and children were
burned to death) and cannibalism. It was not alleged that the defendants
ate anyone personally. 

        The evidence included:

* Soviet War Crimes Reports * Chinese War Crimes Reports * Soviet
reports based on Japanese documents not attached to the reports *
Summaries of Japanese military aggression in China (written by the
Chinese) * 317 Judge Advocate General War Crimes Reports (total length:
14,618 pages) "quoting" "captured" Japanese documents, diaries,
cannibalism confessions, mass murder orders, orders to gas P.O.W.s on
remote South Sea islands, etc. ("captured documents" not attached to
reports; proof of authenticity not required) * affidavits of Japanese
soldiers imprisoned in Siberia * affidavits of Japanese referring to
Japs as the 'enemy' * affidavits of Red Army Officers * newspaper
clippings (admissable evidence for the prosecution, but not usually for
the defense; i.e., events in China were proven by quoting the Chicago
Daily Tribune, the New Orleans Times- Picayune, the Sacrimento Herald,
Oakland Tribune, New York Herald, New York Times, Christian Science
Monitor, etc. * the "affidavit" of Marquis Takugawa (written in English
and not read to him in Japanese) * the statements of Okawa (Okawa was
declared insane and confined to a lunatic asylum, but his statements
were used in evidence) * the testimony of Tanaka (a professional witness
paid by the Americans; Okawa, when drunk, has confessed everything to
Tanaka; Tanaka 'The Monster' Ryukichi was supposedly responsible for
millions of atrocities but was not tried, instead he moved freely about
Japan) * Kido's diary (titbits of gossip about everybody Kido didn't
like) * Harada's Memoirs (Harada had suffered a stroke, so his dictation
was incomprehensible; how well he could remember and what he meant to
say were anybody's guess; the translations were a guess; many different
"copies" had been "corrected" by a variety of people other than the
person to whom he had dictated; added to which he had a reputation for
telling lies). 

        The Prosecution's Answer to Defense Arguments at the end of the trial
refutes all defensive evidence, stating that documents (translations of
excerpts "copies" without proof of issuance or signature) are the best
witnesses. If prosecution and defense both quote a document, defense
have quoted out of context, but never the prosecution. Hearsay has
probative value; testimony of defense witnesses has no probative value;
cross- examination is a waste of time. 

        Five of the 11 judges - William Webb of Australia, Delfin Jaranilla of
the Philippines, and Bert. A. Ršling of the Netherlands, Henri Bernhard
of France, and R.B. Pal of India - dissented. Pal wrote a famous 700
page dissentient opinion in which he called the prosecution atrocity
evidence "mostly worthless", remarking sarcastically that he hoped one
of the documents was in Japanese. 

        A peculiarity of war crimes trials is that far from "proving" anything,
they all contradict each other. It was held at Tokyo that the Chinese
had a "right" to violate "unfair" treaties, and that Japanese efforts to
enforce such treaties - because they were "unfair" - constituted
"aggression". 

        When the atomic bombs were dropped, Shigemitsu had been attempting to
negotiate a surrender for nearly 11 months, beginning on September 14,
1944. This of course became another "crime" - "prolonging the war
through negotiation". 

        "Proof" of Japanese cannibal activity may be found in JAG Report 317,
pp. 12,467-8 of mimeographed transcript; Exhibits 1446 and 1447, pp.
12,576-7; Exhibit 1873, pp. 14, 129-30, and Exhibits 2056 and 2056A and
B, pp. 15,032- 42. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I Witnessed a Gassing'  Giwer Lies still
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 06:06:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 19 11:08:10 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:

>The Gwier liar, witnessed nothing. With the possible exception of 
>kiddie porno. Take a look at his home page and he has the balls to 
>call other people ugly. This has to be one of the worst dipsticks on 
>earth. He's really a troller, but a real dumb troller, and he even 
>admits that he's a troller, and stupid too, while bragging about an 
>alleged IQ of 40-60 something. He's so easily nailed when he bluffs, 
>when he's caught at it, not a peep. I'm a third rate holohugger 
>according to Giewer, and he may be right, but even this old fart can 
>best the Gweir Liar. It's so easy, 'cause he's so fu---ing dumb. Ask 
>him about The Nazi camp Theresienstadt. He mentioned it one time, BS 
>and when challenged, he never mentioned it again. This turkey is 100% 
>bluff. Can't prove a thing, can't be humiliated like ordinary folk, no 
>pride at all. A fool, a joker, a clown. A human waste basket.
>Chuckles, idiot extraordinaire

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Insulin Hoax (was Re: Fritsch was a fraud)
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:38:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 164
Message-ID: <4qb2qc$oql@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pn8q3$muu@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <31c4628f.4905933@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4q31nv$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <31C5D701.3696@unb.ca> <4q4th9$53f@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <31C880A8.7C96@unb.ca>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20  3:40:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Keith Morrison  wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Wed, 12 Jun 1996 20:17:42 GMT, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>> >> >wrote [well, actually he didn't write much of anything]:
>> >>
>> >> >In 1921, Frederick Banting and Charles Best co-discovered the
>> >> >pancreatic hormone insulin, used in treating diabetes.
>> >>
>> >> >Frederick Banting and J.R. Macleod were the first in Canada to win the
>> >> >Nobel Prize in 1923 for their work in the isolation of insulin, a
>> >> >discovery that revolutionized the treatment of diabetes.
>> >>
>> >> >Both of these statements are true, and yet they are in apparent
>> >> >contradiction.
>> >>
>> >> >Can Mr. Giwer guess why? Probably not. But if he could, could he
>> >> >construct an analogy to Macleod, Banting, and Best using the names of,
>> >> >say, Hoess, Fritsch, and Breitwieser? Probably not.
>> >>
>> >>         Off topic.  The difference goes far beyond name alone.
>> >>
>> >>         And then of course there is the third true story.  I am certain there
>> >> are more true stories to be found.
>> 
>> >Translation:
>> 
>> >"No I can't because I have no idea who those people are, what went on
>> >or anything relating to actual science because everytime I put my
>> >mouth in gear my brain stays in neutral and I look like a complete
>> >moron."
>> 
>>         I would rather hold that people are real morons when they believe the
>> modern, sanitized version of stories like the following.

>Translation:

>"No I can't because I have no idea who those people are, what went on
>or anything relating to actual science because everytime I put my
>mouth in gear my brain stays in neutral and I look like a complete
>moron."

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca

>I am now quite satisfied that Giwer's BS is exactly that: BS.
JAPANESE WAR CRIMES TRIALS 

        While Germans were being convicted of making human "soap" (taken
seriously in the seventh edition of Oppenheim and Lauterpacht's
prestigious International Law, vol. II, p. 450) Japanese defendants were
being convicted of making human "soup" in repeated trials. 

        This is not a misprint; it was considered a "proven fact" in 1948 - a
"fact" proven in numerous "trials" - that the Japanese are a race of
habitual cannibals who were forbidden upon pain of death from devouring
the corpses of their own dead, but who were officially encouraged to eat
Americans. Americans were served fried, or as soup; people were eaten
when other food was available. Thus, the Japanese engage in cannibalism
out of choice rather than necessity. Favourite human body parts for
culinary purposes are liver, pancreas and gall bladder; Chinese are
swallowed in pill form! 

        Among the "trials" in which this was "proven" are U.S. Tachibana Yochio
and 13 others, Mariana Islands, 2nd-15th August, 1946; Commonwealth of
Australia vs. Tazaki Takehiko, Wewak, 30th November 1945; Commonwealth
of Australia v. Tomiyasu Tisato, Rabaul, 2nd April 1946; and the most
complex war crimes trial in history, the International Military Tribunal
for the Far East (IMTFE) personally supervised by Douglas McArthur,
which lasted from May 1946 until December 1948 (see The Tokyo Judgment,
vol. 1, pp. 409-410, University of Amsterdam Press 1977, pp. 49,674-5 of
mimeographed transcript. 

        The 25 defendants who survived trial were all convicted; 7 were hanged. 

        Their crimes included: 

        Planning, initiation and waging "aggressive war" against the Soviet
Union (the Soviet Union attacked Japan two days after Hiroshima in
violation of a Non-Agression Pact; on this same day the London Agreement
was signed, pursuant to which the Nuremberg Trial was held); planning,
initiation, and waging "aggressive war" against France (France is in
Europe); illegal sea blockade and indiscriminate population bombing
(case against Shimada), that is, the actions of the British in Europe
would have been illegal if committed by the Japanese; trial of war
criminals before a military tribunal (case against Hata and Tojo; see
also U.S. vs. Sawada, probably the most disgusting and hypocritical
accusation of all; the victims were 7 Americans guilty of participating
in the fire-bombing of Tokyo in which 80,000 women and children were
burned to death) and cannibalism. It was not alleged that the defendants
ate anyone personally. 

        The evidence included:

* Soviet War Crimes Reports * Chinese War Crimes Reports * Soviet
reports based on Japanese documents not attached to the reports *
Summaries of Japanese military aggression in China (written by the
Chinese) * 317 Judge Advocate General War Crimes Reports (total length:
14,618 pages) "quoting" "captured" Japanese documents, diaries,
cannibalism confessions, mass murder orders, orders to gas P.O.W.s on
remote South Sea islands, etc. ("captured documents" not attached to
reports; proof of authenticity not required) * affidavits of Japanese
soldiers imprisoned in Siberia * affidavits of Japanese referring to
Japs as the 'enemy' * affidavits of Red Army Officers * newspaper
clippings (admissable evidence for the prosecution, but not usually for
the defense; i.e., events in China were proven by quoting the Chicago
Daily Tribune, the New Orleans Times- Picayune, the Sacrimento Herald,
Oakland Tribune, New York Herald, New York Times, Christian Science
Monitor, etc. * the "affidavit" of Marquis Takugawa (written in English
and not read to him in Japanese) * the statements of Okawa (Okawa was
declared insane and confined to a lunatic asylum, but his statements
were used in evidence) * the testimony of Tanaka (a professional witness
paid by the Americans; Okawa, when drunk, has confessed everything to
Tanaka; Tanaka 'The Monster' Ryukichi was supposedly responsible for
millions of atrocities but was not tried, instead he moved freely about
Japan) * Kido's diary (titbits of gossip about everybody Kido didn't
like) * Harada's Memoirs (Harada had suffered a stroke, so his dictation
was incomprehensible; how well he could remember and what he meant to
say were anybody's guess; the translations were a guess; many different
"copies" had been "corrected" by a variety of people other than the
person to whom he had dictated; added to which he had a reputation for
telling lies). 

        The Prosecution's Answer to Defense Arguments at the end of the trial
refutes all defensive evidence, stating that documents (translations of
excerpts "copies" without proof of issuance or signature) are the best
witnesses. If prosecution and defense both quote a document, defense
have quoted out of context, but never the prosecution. Hearsay has
probative value; testimony of defense witnesses has no probative value;
cross- examination is a waste of time. 

        Five of the 11 judges - William Webb of Australia, Delfin Jaranilla of
the Philippines, and Bert. A. Ršling of the Netherlands, Henri Bernhard
of France, and R.B. Pal of India - dissented. Pal wrote a famous 700
page dissentient opinion in which he called the prosecution atrocity
evidence "mostly worthless", remarking sarcastically that he hoped one
of the documents was in Japanese. 

        A peculiarity of war crimes trials is that far from "proving" anything,
they all contradict each other. It was held at Tokyo that the Chinese
had a "right" to violate "unfair" treaties, and that Japanese efforts to
enforce such treaties - because they were "unfair" - constituted
"aggression". 

        When the atomic bombs were dropped, Shigemitsu had been attempting to
negotiate a surrender for nearly 11 months, beginning on September 14,
1944. This of course became another "crime" - "prolonging the war
through negotiation". 

        "Proof" of Japanese cannibal activity may be found in JAG Report 317,
pp. 12,467-8 of mimeographed transcript; Exhibits 1446 and 1447, pp.
12,576-7; Exhibit 1873, pp. 14, 129-30, and Exhibits 2056 and 2056A and
B, pp. 15,032- 42. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No wonder we can't find the bodies
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:41:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 50
Message-ID: <4qakts$eji@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pq203$8bh@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <31c411e7.144782@news.pacificnet.net> <4q230i$c1c@atlas.uniserve.com> <31c5435e.3162965@news.pacificnet.net> <4q9jf6$fiv@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 19  9:43:40 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) wrote:

>tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
>>>>    Here I keep seeing it said this guy Giwer is a troll and then he
>>>>unleashes a cornucopia, a rapid fire, a whole volley, a flood, a
>>>>hurricane, a 100 mega-ton series of articles that just about washes up
>>>>the Holocaust story.

>>>Very interesting Li'l Tommy ... if I hadn't noticed the headers in
>>>this post I would have thought I was reading something from one of
>>>Ingrid's Z-grams!  Lots of effusion and one big lie camouflaged by
>>>zero substance.

>>      Of course, naturally, no doubt you don't care to elaborate, right?

>Hmm, let's think a moment, perhaps we can solve that riddle by sheer power of mind.
>Where could that darned lie hide... Giwer is a troll? Nah... He did
>post many lines of text? No, neither... Well, what is left over, Mr. Moran? Can
>you guess?


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:39:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 195
Message-ID: <4qb2s6$oql@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pt67e$b7e@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31C39013.67CE@unb.ca> <4q09m3$a20@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <31C5E87F.7786@unb.ca> <4q517c$glj@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <31C88756.50D2@unb.ca>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20  3:41:42 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Keith Morrison  wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>         Of interest is always those bones sent to the grinder.  In the process
>> >> >> of the human body burning the two bones most likely to be left are the
>> >> >> pelvis and the skull.  Yet in the few cases (for the partial cremation,
>> >> >> charred advocates this is unfortunate) where bones are in fact
>> >> >> mentioned, the skull is not mentioned.
>> >>
>> >> >I won't ask how many bones compose the skull and pelvis (because
>> >> >I know he doesn't have a clue) but I will ask where this piece of
>> >> >data comes from.
>> >>
>> >>         Gee, now just where do I start with this one?  There are numerous
>> >> approaches to answer it.
>> >>
>> >>         Lets try this.
>> >>
>> >> Q:  How many bones compose the skull and pelvis?
>> >>
>> >> A:      The skull, two in an adult, counting the jaw, discounting the six
>> >> small bones in the ear.  The pelvis, one.
>> >>
>> >>         What did I miss?
>> 
>> >In the skull, the frontal, the two parietals, the two temporals, the occipital,
>> >the ethmoid and the spenoid.  That's eight composing the cranium.  Fourteen
>> >(including the lower jaw) form the face.
>> 
>>         I had excluded the lower jaw.  You are talking about the skull of a
>> child before the skull is fused.  I had also excluded the six bones in
>> the ears.  In adults those bones are referred to as regions.

>See troll.  See Troll squirm.

>I also excluded the bones of the inner ear and indicated the lower jaw
>seperately.  Unfortunetly Gray's Anatomy agrees with me, not you.  Just
>about every reference I bothered to look in gave the names of those bones.
>The ones that didn't simply said the skull was composed of bones and didn't
>name them.

>For a look at the bones in the human skull, 

>     http://www.szote.u-szeged.hu/Anatomy/skul.html

> 
>>         Or are you really going to assert that the skull of an adult would fall
>> into its component parts if the flesh were removed?

>See Troll.  See Troll squirm wildly.

>Someone explain the concept of the suture joint to Mr Giwer, will they?  His
>ignorance is beginning to annoy me.

> 
>> >Ah, but wait!  We must still look at the pelvis.  You said one bone, right?
>> >Let's see, there are the two hipbones and the sacrum.  But each hipbone
>> >is made up of the ilium, the ischium and the pubis.  So there are seven
>> >bones in total.  Oh dear, 600% error.  Oh well, almost as good as the
>> >skull, but not quite.
>> 
>>         Again, in adults, all fused.  But of course you will hold they will fall
>> apart if the flesh is removed.

>I did not say that.  It is called a suture joint.  Look it up sometime.  If you
>know how to use a reference.

>Someone had best let the medical profession, biologists, anthropologists and
>paleontologists that the human skeleton is composed of twenty-six few bones
>than people have assumed for the last 2000 years or so.  Matt Giwer said so
>so it must be true.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca
JAPANESE WAR CRIMES TRIALS 

        While Germans were being convicted of making human "soap" (taken
seriously in the seventh edition of Oppenheim and Lauterpacht's
prestigious International Law, vol. II, p. 450) Japanese defendants were
being convicted of making human "soup" in repeated trials. 

        This is not a misprint; it was considered a "proven fact" in 1948 - a
"fact" proven in numerous "trials" - that the Japanese are a race of
habitual cannibals who were forbidden upon pain of death from devouring
the corpses of their own dead, but who were officially encouraged to eat
Americans. Americans were served fried, or as soup; people were eaten
when other food was available. Thus, the Japanese engage in cannibalism
out of choice rather than necessity. Favourite human body parts for
culinary purposes are liver, pancreas and gall bladder; Chinese are
swallowed in pill form! 

        Among the "trials" in which this was "proven" are U.S. Tachibana Yochio
and 13 others, Mariana Islands, 2nd-15th August, 1946; Commonwealth of
Australia vs. Tazaki Takehiko, Wewak, 30th November 1945; Commonwealth
of Australia v. Tomiyasu Tisato, Rabaul, 2nd April 1946; and the most
complex war crimes trial in history, the International Military Tribunal
for the Far East (IMTFE) personally supervised by Douglas McArthur,
which lasted from May 1946 until December 1948 (see The Tokyo Judgment,
vol. 1, pp. 409-410, University of Amsterdam Press 1977, pp. 49,674-5 of
mimeographed transcript. 

        The 25 defendants who survived trial were all convicted; 7 were hanged. 

        Their crimes included: 

        Planning, initiation and waging "aggressive war" against the Soviet
Union (the Soviet Union attacked Japan two days after Hiroshima in
violation of a Non-Agression Pact; on this same day the London Agreement
was signed, pursuant to which the Nuremberg Trial was held); planning,
initiation, and waging "aggressive war" against France (France is in
Europe); illegal sea blockade and indiscriminate population bombing
(case against Shimada), that is, the actions of the British in Europe
would have been illegal if committed by the Japanese; trial of war
criminals before a military tribunal (case against Hata and Tojo; see
also U.S. vs. Sawada, probably the most disgusting and hypocritical
accusation of all; the victims were 7 Americans guilty of participating
in the fire-bombing of Tokyo in which 80,000 women and children were
burned to death) and cannibalism. It was not alleged that the defendants
ate anyone personally. 

        The evidence included:

* Soviet War Crimes Reports * Chinese War Crimes Reports * Soviet
reports based on Japanese documents not attached to the reports *
Summaries of Japanese military aggression in China (written by the
Chinese) * 317 Judge Advocate General War Crimes Reports (total length:
14,618 pages) "quoting" "captured" Japanese documents, diaries,
cannibalism confessions, mass murder orders, orders to gas P.O.W.s on
remote South Sea islands, etc. ("captured documents" not attached to
reports; proof of authenticity not required) * affidavits of Japanese
soldiers imprisoned in Siberia * affidavits of Japanese referring to
Japs as the 'enemy' * affidavits of Red Army Officers * newspaper
clippings (admissable evidence for the prosecution, but not usually for
the defense; i.e., events in China were proven by quoting the Chicago
Daily Tribune, the New Orleans Times- Picayune, the Sacrimento Herald,
Oakland Tribune, New York Herald, New York Times, Christian Science
Monitor, etc. * the "affidavit" of Marquis Takugawa (written in English
and not read to him in Japanese) * the statements of Okawa (Okawa was
declared insane and confined to a lunatic asylum, but his statements
were used in evidence) * the testimony of Tanaka (a professional witness
paid by the Americans; Okawa, when drunk, has confessed everything to
Tanaka; Tanaka 'The Monster' Ryukichi was supposedly responsible for
millions of atrocities but was not tried, instead he moved freely about
Japan) * Kido's diary (titbits of gossip about everybody Kido didn't
like) * Harada's Memoirs (Harada had suffered a stroke, so his dictation
was incomprehensible; how well he could remember and what he meant to
say were anybody's guess; the translations were a guess; many different
"copies" had been "corrected" by a variety of people other than the
person to whom he had dictated; added to which he had a reputation for
telling lies). 

        The Prosecution's Answer to Defense Arguments at the end of the trial
refutes all defensive evidence, stating that documents (translations of
excerpts "copies" without proof of issuance or signature) are the best
witnesses. If prosecution and defense both quote a document, defense
have quoted out of context, but never the prosecution. Hearsay has
probative value; testimony of defense witnesses has no probative value;
cross- examination is a waste of time. 

        Five of the 11 judges - William Webb of Australia, Delfin Jaranilla of
the Philippines, and Bert. A. Ršling of the Netherlands, Henri Bernhard
of France, and R.B. Pal of India - dissented. Pal wrote a famous 700
page dissentient opinion in which he called the prosecution atrocity
evidence "mostly worthless", remarking sarcastically that he hoped one
of the documents was in Japanese. 

        A peculiarity of war crimes trials is that far from "proving" anything,
they all contradict each other. It was held at Tokyo that the Chinese
had a "right" to violate "unfair" treaties, and that Japanese efforts to
enforce such treaties - because they were "unfair" - constituted
"aggression". 

        When the atomic bombs were dropped, Shigemitsu had been attempting to
negotiate a surrender for nearly 11 months, beginning on September 14,
1944. This of course became another "crime" - "prolonging the war
through negotiation". 

        "Proof" of Japanese cannibal activity may be found in JAG Report 317,
pp. 12,467-8 of mimeographed transcript; Exhibits 1446 and 1447, pp.
12,576-7; Exhibit 1873, pp. 14, 129-30, and Exhibits 2056 and 2056A and
B, pp. 15,032- 42. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Many things change
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:10:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 139
Message-ID: <4q9jeb$ep1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4prcqt$ua@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <4q2laa$2t2m@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4q348p$sd2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <4q6pu4$2rus@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 19  2:12:11 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q348p$sd2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing.  In response to my post about him being Mr. Green's biggest problem
>(read: pain in the butt), he posted nothing.  I fear the Giwer-troll is
>losing his touch, if not his ability to lie.

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Many things change
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 08:24:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 143
Message-ID: <4qb1up$oql@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <8C2A346.081101253E.uuout@almac.co.uk> <4qaalh$4er0@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-48.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20  3:26:01 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <8C2A346.081101253E.uuout@almac.co.uk>,
>angus.mclellan@almac.co.uk (ANGUS MCLELLAN) said:

>>
>>In article <4plrgq$s9@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) rides again

>>

>>>        It is good to see you agree that Britain declared selective war
>>>upon Germany and that it "treaty" with Poland was a meaningless excuse.

>>I hope that Mr Giwer (and anyone else who is interested) will take the
>>time to complete the little quiz I set on the subject of the German and
>>Soviet invasions of Poland and their background. 

>I like this, sort of the "Socratic" approach.  The results should be
>interesting.  :-)

>[quiz deleted]


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

> 
JAPANESE WAR CRIMES TRIALS 

        While Germans were being convicted of making human "soap" (taken
seriously in the seventh edition of Oppenheim and Lauterpacht's
prestigious International Law, vol. II, p. 450) Japanese defendants were
being convicted of making human "soup" in repeated trials. 

        This is not a misprint; it was considered a "proven fact" in 1948 - a
"fact" proven in numerous "trials" - that the Japanese are a race of
habitual cannibals who were forbidden upon pain of death from devouring
the corpses of their own dead, but who were officially encouraged to eat
Americans. Americans were served fried, or as soup; people were eaten
when other food was available. Thus, the Japanese engage in cannibalism
out of choice rather than necessity. Favourite human body parts for
culinary purposes are liver, pancreas and gall bladder; Chinese are
swallowed in pill form! 

        Among the "trials" in which this was "proven" are U.S. Tachibana Yochio
and 13 others, Mariana Islands, 2nd-15th August, 1946; Commonwealth of
Australia vs. Tazaki Takehiko, Wewak, 30th November 1945; Commonwealth
of Australia v. Tomiyasu Tisato, Rabaul, 2nd April 1946; and the most
complex war crimes trial in history, the International Military Tribunal
for the Far East (IMTFE) personally supervised by Douglas McArthur,
which lasted from May 1946 until December 1948 (see The Tokyo Judgment,
vol. 1, pp. 409-410, University of Amsterdam Press 1977, pp. 49,674-5 of
mimeographed transcript. 

        The 25 defendants who survived trial were all convicted; 7 were hanged. 

        Their crimes included: 

        Planning, initiation and waging "aggressive war" against the Soviet
Union (the Soviet Union attacked Japan two days after Hiroshima in
violation of a Non-Agression Pact; on this same day the London Agreement
was signed, pursuant to which the Nuremberg Trial was held); planning,
initiation, and waging "aggressive war" against France (France is in
Europe); illegal sea blockade and indiscriminate population bombing
(case against Shimada), that is, the actions of the British in Europe
would have been illegal if committed by the Japanese; trial of war
criminals before a military tribunal (case against Hata and Tojo; see
also U.S. vs. Sawada, probably the most disgusting and hypocritical
accusation of all; the victims were 7 Americans guilty of participating
in the fire-bombing of Tokyo in which 80,000 women and children were
burned to death) and cannibalism. It was not alleged that the defendants
ate anyone personally. 

        The evidence included:

* Soviet War Crimes Reports * Chinese War Crimes Reports * Soviet
reports based on Japanese documents not attached to the reports *
Summaries of Japanese military aggression in China (written by the
Chinese) * 317 Judge Advocate General War Crimes Reports (total length:
14,618 pages) "quoting" "captured" Japanese documents, diaries,
cannibalism confessions, mass murder orders, orders to gas P.O.W.s on
remote South Sea islands, etc. ("captured documents" not attached to
reports; proof of authenticity not required) * affidavits of Japanese
soldiers imprisoned in Siberia * affidavits of Japanese referring to
Japs as the 'enemy' * affidavits of Red Army Officers * newspaper
clippings (admissable evidence for the prosecution, but not usually for
the defense; i.e., events in China were proven by quoting the Chicago
Daily Tribune, the New Orleans Times- Picayune, the Sacrimento Herald,
Oakland Tribune, New York Herald, New York Times, Christian Science
Monitor, etc. * the "affidavit" of Marquis Takugawa (written in English
and not read to him in Japanese) * the statements of Okawa (Okawa was
declared insane and confined to a lunatic asylum, but his statements
were used in evidence) * the testimony of Tanaka (a professional witness
paid by the Americans; Okawa, when drunk, has confessed everything to
Tanaka; Tanaka 'The Monster' Ryukichi was supposedly responsible for
millions of atrocities but was not tried, instead he moved freely about
Japan) * Kido's diary (titbits of gossip about everybody Kido didn't
like) * Harada's Memoirs (Harada had suffered a stroke, so his dictation
was incomprehensible; how well he could remember and what he meant to
say were anybody's guess; the translations were a guess; many different
"copies" had been "corrected" by a variety of people other than the
person to whom he had dictated; added to which he had a reputation for
telling lies). 

        The Prosecution's Answer to Defense Arguments at the end of the trial
refutes all defensive evidence, stating that documents (translations of
excerpts "copies" without proof of issuance or signature) are the best
witnesses. If prosecution and defense both quote a document, defense
have quoted out of context, but never the prosecution. Hearsay has
probative value; testimony of defense witnesses has no probative value;
cross- examination is a waste of time. 

        Five of the 11 judges - William Webb of Australia, Delfin Jaranilla of
the Philippines, and Bert. A. Ršling of the Netherlands, Henri Bernhard
of France, and R.B. Pal of India - dissented. Pal wrote a famous 700
page dissentient opinion in which he called the prosecution atrocity
evidence "mostly worthless", remarking sarcastically that he hoped one
of the documents was in Japanese. 

        A peculiarity of war crimes trials is that far from "proving" anything,
they all contradict each other. It was held at Tokyo that the Chinese
had a "right" to violate "unfair" treaties, and that Japanese efforts to
enforce such treaties - because they were "unfair" - constituted
"aggression". 

        When the atomic bombs were dropped, Shigemitsu had been attempting to
negotiate a surrender for nearly 11 months, beginning on September 14,
1944. This of course became another "crime" - "prolonging the war
through negotiation". 

        "Proof" of Japanese cannibal activity may be found in JAG Report 317,
pp. 12,467-8 of mimeographed transcript; Exhibits 1446 and 1447, pp.
12,576-7; Exhibit 1873, pp. 14, 129-30, and Exhibits 2056 and 2056A and
B, pp. 15,032- 42. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A match made in heaven?
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:26:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <4qc8or$nkc@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4po447$1ghg@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> <4poio9$4ui@atlas.uniserve.com> <4qaai6$3dvc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 20  2:28:27 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4poio9$4ui@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:


>>I do hope the Giwer-troll sees this one.  Looks like if he played his
>>cards just right, he might be able to persuade this societal misfit that
>>she should pay him some attention.  They obviously have a great deal in
>>common.  I think they'll get along famously.

>>Just imagine! Ingrid will be able to add their thanks to her growing list
>>of appreciative testimonials.

>>And If we are *really* lucky, H*berlette and Giwer-troll will get so
>>involved in their off-line personal correspondence that they will forget
>>all about posting their hate-filled fact-bereft drivel to this newsgroup.

>>And we'll all post happily ever after. Well, I can dream, can't I?!

>To dream....the impossible dream......



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                 
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At least part of the Degesh publication
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 18:04:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 139
Message-ID: <4q9fi6$ime@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pq3i3$eoi@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>  <31c2cf1d.7120367@news.pacificnet.net> <4pv5od$142@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4pve19$40r@d31rz2.Stanford.EDU> <4q07fo$l26@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <31c4d013.22120207@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4q368q$s1l@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4q6prc$48bi@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q368q$s1l@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing.  In response to Mr. Morris' cogent and revealing article, the
>Giwer-troll said nothing at all.

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  





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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:03:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 150
Message-ID: <4q9q2o$2nh@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <31b1c798.13508858@news.pacificnet.net> <4oue52$n4q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31b2ee9b.6549861@news.pacificnet.net> <4pem2u$3lka@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4peuoh$cbn@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4q2e1f$1l0e@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4q36pi$s1l@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4q6psh$3v4o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-16.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 19  4:05:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q36pi$s1l@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing.  In response to my post as to what a loon he is, he simply said
>nothing.  Boy, if the Giwer-troll can be wiped out so easily by a
>third-string holohugger like me, what is he going to if the big guns decide
>to take him on?

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>    
        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ghettos?
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:23:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 149
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References: <4p2d9f$1o8@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4pg5e9$pdu@access1.digex.net> <4pgff1$7r1@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <4pk4lr$qq@access5.digex.net> <4pkfhk$f3v@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <4q2e3a$qhk@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4q3b7u$cl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4q6pt0$2rtc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q3b7u$cl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing.  In response to my statement that he invents things from whole
>cloth, he said nothing at all.  Confirmation of the accuracy of my statement
>if I ever saw it.  Silent acquiesence.

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                           
        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer, home of ignorance
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 21:04:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 168
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References: <4pqrpt$l99@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4psm2p$l31@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4pt0uq$d86@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4q1r5f$5nd@access4.digex.net> <4q2gnt$q1l@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <4q6pt9$41dq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q2gnt$q1l@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:


>>      You really can't figure it out can you?  

>>      "I was an inmate at Auschwitz."  

>>      "And what can you tell us that provide evidence that you were?"  

>>      "Duh ..."  

>>      Repetition of, I was there, is not an adequate answer.  The person could
>>provide detailed descriptions of the camp that match photographs, papers,
>>records, a lot of things like that.  It is no different than an expert
>>witness reciting his credentials.  Such recitation can be confirmed
>>independent of the person making the statement.  

>The Liar-Giwer-Troll knows very well that it is very much different.  The
>people sent to Auschwitz were not "expert witnesses".  They were innocent
>and terrified people who had been subjected to all sorts of harassment and
>now were about to be murdered.  The lucky few who survived can certainly be
>forgiven if their recollection of the exact dimensions of the gas chambers,
>or the precise number of guards, or other such things, is not 100% accurate. 
>The Liar-Giwer-Troll must assume that everyone lies like he does.

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                         
        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.activism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.guns,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust; Six million dead
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:28:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q33sg$sd2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>>>    Actually a quite limited bit of truth.  

>>>Oh..oh.  I suspect we are about to be treated to the Giwer-troll version
>of
>>>history .  Its distinguishing characteristic is that it is wrong and
>>>slanted.  Let's see what happens today.

>[stupid irrelevant quot deleted]

>>      Good enough for today?  

>About what one expects from a lying phoney.

>>>>    The Nazis came to power in Jan 1933 when they managed to put together a
>>>>governing coalition of the parties which held seats in the Reichstag.  

>>>Wrong.  The Nazis came to power in January 1933 when Hitler was named
>>>Chancellor by the Reichpresident.  The "coalition" was not put together
>>>until March 1933, by which time Hitler had banned the Communist Party. 
>That
>>>made achieving a majority in the March 1933 elections somewhat easier,
>since
>>>around 80 seats in the Reichstag had "disappeared".

>>      You really do need to learn something about both parliamentary forms of
>>government and what in fact happened.  

>Funny.  I don't see a single word of rebuttal here from the Giwer-troll. 
>Given his modus operandi, that usually means he has been caught--again--with
>his pants down, in yet another lie, and is trying to divert attention from
>it.

>>>>    Between then and March international Jewish organizations
>>>>organized a permanent economic boycott against Germany in the middle of
>>>>the Depression.  They announced it in March.  One week later there was a
>>>>one day boycott of Jewish merchants in Germany organized by the Nazis.  

>>>Wrong.  This has all been posted several times.  The one-day boycott by
>the
>>>Nazis was one day only because of the threat of a worldwide boycott of
>>>German goods.  The so-called international boycott was the result of
>German
>>>harassment of Jews.

>>>This is about par for the course for the Giwer-troll.  Two assertions--two
>>>mistakes.

>>      You insist upon presenting things in a backwards and in fact impossible
>>order.  There was absolutely ZERO harrassment of Jews by Nazis before the
>>boycott.

>The Giwer-troll is wrong again.  That's two-for-two.  He should be in
>baseball, as he is definitely a minor leaguer when it comes to this stuff.

>>      But of course, be the latest to attempt to modify history.  Post the
>>harrassment.  

>The difference between the Giwer-troll and me is that I know, and post,
>history.  He does neither.  He just lies and lies and lies and......

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the military justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.activism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.guns,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust; Six million dead
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:44:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q33tp$sd2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>In article <4plur1$91q@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>>>Giwer) said:


>>>>>Since you are able to judge translations, I take it you are able to
>>>>>read this text in the original language.

>>>>>           Noch im Sommer 1942 wurden die Leichen
>>>>>           in die MassengrŠber gebracht. Erst Ende des
>>>>>           Sommers fingen wir an mit der Verbrennung;
>>>>>           zuerst auf einem Holzsto§ mit ca. 2000 Leichen,
>>>>>           nachher in den Gruben mit den wieder freigelegten
>>>>>           Leichen aus der frźheren Zeit.[1]

>>>>    That is about as cute as it is stupid.  Would you like to try for idiot
>>>>of the year award?  

>>>I still don't see the Giwer-troll's translation.  Is it possible he
>doesn't
>>>know what the text says?  Is it possible that....

>Still don't see the translation.  Just another lie.

>A brief sampling of the Giwer-troll lies.

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the military justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while accusing
>others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to see posts
>which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when they have been
>e-mailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally conducted himself
>with such complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there
>seems to be no point in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed
>and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

        The power research department of the Institute for Advanced Holohugger
Exposure has swung into action.  

1)  Quotes 15,000 per day for Belzec, 20,000 per day for Sobibor, 25,000
per day for Treblinka.  

        But perhaps they took the weekends off to get the average down to
today's slightly less absurd numbers.  

2)  Claims that Hitler and Himmler were at Majdanek (Lublin) on 15
August1942.  Hitler is supposed to have said: "Quicker, quicker, carry
out the whole program!"  Globocnik goes into his speech about sinking
bronze tablets into the ground commemorating the deed, and Hitler says,
"Yes, my good Globocnik, that is the word, that is my opinion, too." 

        Which is quite an incriminating statement by Hitler.  Maybe it was one
of his doubles because he was never near the place.  

3) On August 18, 1942, a train arrives at Belzec, 45 train cars with
6,700 people, of whom 1,450 are already dead. 

        Although not as bad as the packing factor below still pretty good.  

4) The hair of the women is put into huge potatobags for "special
submarine equipment, doormats, etc."

        Looks like these witnesses all had a hair fetish.  

5)   Completely naked they march by, men, women, girls, babies,
even one-legged persons, completely naked. in Augst.  

        Perhaps it was the handicapped drill team from Lublin.  But wait there's
more

Meanwhile, the rest of the transport, all naked, wait.  Somebody
says to me, "Naked in winter! But they can die that way!"

        The weather appears to be quite changeable in Poland.  

6) 7-800 crushed together on 25 square meters, in 45 cubic
meters!

        Lets give him the benefit of the doubt here and use 700.  That means the
human body fits in a 0.06 meter cube.  For the part of the world that
matters, that is a cube 15.8 inches on a side.  Does, "not even if
reduced to liquid" mean anything to anyone?  

        Of course he might have just been trying to say that there were 28
people per square meter and that the roof was high enough that they
could form five high human pyramids.  

7)  The diesel engine fails to start.  It takes 2 hours and 49 minutes,
according to Gerstein, who is using a stopwatch.  Then it starts and it
takes 32 minutes to kill the people in the chamber.

        And the famous story of how all of these people died, not from lack of
oxygen after 2 hours and 49 minutes in a sealed room, but from diesel
exhaust.  

8)  The figures announced by the BBC are inaccurate.  Actually,
about 25 million persons were killed: not only Jews, however but
especially Poles and Czechoslovakians, too, who were in the opinion of
the Nazis bad stock. 

        It appears the holocausters are ignoring many more than the remaining 6
million, but rather the remaining 19 million victims.  

9) at Treblinka There were 8 gas chanbers and whole mountains of
clothes and underwear about 35 -40 meters high 

        Sounds like Mt. Trashmore to me.  Lets see between 115 and 130 foot high
piles of clothing and underwear.  Although the underwear would account
for the smell it is unclear how those Polish spies missed this. 
        
10)  Gerstein claims that the worst camps were Auschwitz and Mauthausen,
where  These are the places where millions of people disappeared
in gas chambers or gas chamber like cars.  The method of killing the
children was to hold a tampon with prussic acid under the nose.

        A tampon with prussic acid.  It appears this boy had more than a hair
fetish.  




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.politics
Subject: Re: Are the media inaccurate?  Griswald tha turkey
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:11:37 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Xref: news.voyager.net alt.politics.white-power:38536 alt.politics.nationalism.white:29703 alt.discrimination:30623 alt.revisionism:49165 alt.skinheads:41310 can.politics:70407

Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:

>Dear Lester,
>In response to your very thoughtful post of this date, I just wanted 
>to express my deep gratitude for your message, which I'm sure comes 
>from the heart and is well intended.

>You must have seen the great photo of me posted by Jeannie. You should 
>look so good when you're a grizzled old fart. (but you should also 
>live so long). 



>Les Griswold wrote:
>> 
>> Grizzled old fart Chuckles Ferree (chuckf@rio.com) writes:

>clipped all the cheap shots out. But I did mean for you to take my 
>advise seriously. Took me many years of self control to learn those 
>lessons, which I pass on to you for free and I hope in time.

>> Jealous, old man?  What you used to be able to do all night, it now takes
>> you all night to do?

>Not really, just about ten minutes longer, but it's still a beautiful 
>thing. And no kids lurking around the corners.
>> 
>> But really, Chuckles, such filthy talk ill suits a distinguished man such
>> as yourself.

>I'm sorry if my advise offended you, Leslie, my boy, it was said with 
>the best of intentions, and your health and welfare in mind. 

>  After all, you're a hoity-toity hollow-causer, one of those
>> Americans who was everywhere and saw everything.

>Yeah, just about everything there is to see. Plus I've done everything 
>I ever wanted to do. 
>How about you?
>I ask you now,  hoity-toity? Is that a wholesome way to put it? The 
>other phrase escapes me: hollow-causer, sort of sounds like something 
>the Giwer Liar would say. You are maybe low-down, but are you saying 
>that you're at his level? I mean that is one very sick man!


>  Should you really be
>> talking about solitary vices?

>Oh, that's O.K. when you reach the grizzled old fart stage of life. A 
>vice is a vice, not too many left. 
>> 

>> > Even as an old fart, I can still cause punks like you to holler for
>> > help.
>> 
>> :-)

>Right! If you ever see me in a dark alley, better speed it up, cause 
>it's all over quick.
>:-)

>Guess the matter of gas chambers in Dachau is settled then. You lose.

>Chuck
>> Les


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 




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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Trolling again, but with an interesting idea
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <4qf3d0$7kb@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q4t5h$9q5@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael
>P. Stein) said:

>[snip]

>>>     As you remember, I publically asked for documentation of gassing.

>>    No, I don't remember.  Why don't you repost the article in which you
>>did so?  I found one in which you talked about the Wannsee Protocol being
>>offered as evidence of _extermintion_.  But that is not identical to
>>gassing.

>Your memory is correct.

>>    Psychic prediction: Giwer will never post or give a DejaNews URL for
>>the article which supports this "memory." 

>That's because there isn't one.


>>>     As you remember, Keren played a game of posting it in German for a
>>>couple weeks.

>>    No, I don't remember.  And neither does DejaNews.  It only remembers
>>Gordon McFee posting it in German.  And it was not in response to a
>>request for documentation of _gassing_.  I can not change the history as
>>recorded on DejaNews and neither can you.  It says you are lying.  Sorry
>>about that.

>I posted it in German because the denier-scum in this newsgroup, including
>the one you are corresponding with, always insist on primary documentation. 
>The original is pretty damned primary IMHO.  Of course, I could have also
>posted it in French and English, but I would have been pilloried for
>spamming.

>[rest deleted]

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                        


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Giwer's silica/Erco lie 
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 09:00:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  2:02:20 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) asked rhetorically:

>> What is "Erco?" 

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) replied:

>> That is what I asked you folks.  Now if you can identify this as silica
>> gel I will be interested in reading the document and the source.  

> Another lie from Matt Giwer.  Erco was identified as silica gel
>back in February, as Mr. Giwer undoubtedly knows (and would
>rather forget, no doubt)...

>   From: hmazal@txdirect.net
>   Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>   Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
>   Date: 5 Feb 1996 07:07:35 GMT
>   
>   Mr. Giwer has been posing the possibility that a witness might not
>   have seen Zyklon-B in the form of  "blue crystals."    He has
>   further stated that Zyklon-B was simply hydrogen cyanide gas
>   adsorbed onto small pellets of  "kitty litter."  He also stated on
>   one occasion that the product was blue because liquid HCN was blue,
>   which is patently false. Rather than detract and admit his mistake,
>   he went on to tell he had _not_ said that but rather that the 'blue'
>   color was due to a reaction between the hydrogen cyanide and the
>   support material, which is highly unlikely.
>   
>   Mr. Giwer has also suggested that Zyklon-B was only produced in the
>   manner described above, rather than on various supports, insisting
>   that the information given on the patents was not reliable.He did
>   not accept that Zyklon-B was produced employing treated lignite
>   disks, treated diatomaceous earth and, more important, on cubes of
>   silica gel.  This last material appears to be a crystal although, of
>   course it is not.    
>   
>   [...]
>   
>   (From page 21 of Pressac's book.  ***emphasis***   mine : HWM)
>   
>   2) "Photo 20"
>      
>      "500 grams can of Zyklon-B without it's label, containing small
>        ***bluish pellets*** of porous silica known as Erco [...]

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon-b

>Mr. Giwer has been made aware of this.  For example, on January 30th, he
>called Mr. Mazal "shit for brains" and quoted this text back to him:

>   > References?  Pages 20-21 of Pressac's book.  Look for 'Erco.'

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt/giwer.0196
>(line 8,125 [sic])

>> As you know the holohuggers here, up until a couple weeks ago, had it as
>> an article of faith that silica gel was the carrier and that it was
>> blue.  Are you saying they were lying?  Or are you saying that you agree
>> with me that it was not is described by the eyewitnesses?

> Of course silica gel is bluish, as pointed out by Pressac and
>by the Degesch manual, which Mr. Giwer himself has quoted numerous times:

>   blue cubes (Erco)

>In other words, Mr. Giwer has been caught in yet another lie -- how many
>does that make?  Are we up to thirty yet?

>Really, Mr. Giwer. Have you no shame?

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>FTP Canada: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>FTP Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)......unlearn
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Strange things on IX
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:27:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4qhojo$1nb@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4paqqm$fsg@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4q1svi$4ps@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>   <4qf06l$dak@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  4:29:28 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article , 
>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

>>It's probably beyond him.  This is one of the "66 Q&A," which means that
>>this claim of Giwer's has been refuted for a bit over six months:
>>
>>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/features/qar/qar03.html
>>
>>Giwer makes a point of searching Nizkor to find errors.  Obviously, if
>>he ever stumbles across the truth there, he ignores it.

>Interesting - the results, that is. So far, he's found one
>error, in a citation from the Tusa's book. Perhaps, with
>another year or two, he may locate another one, who knows?
>Stranger things have happened.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>FTP Canada: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>FTP Europe: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)......unlearn
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Marduk forging again?
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 08:56:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <4qgcjm$h0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4q45im$qcs@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <4q4jtf$sia@access5.digex.net> <4qd5ve$495k@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl8-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  1:58:30 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q4jtf$sia@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael
>P. Stein) said:

>>
>>In article <4q45im$qcs@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>,
>>Richard J. Green  wrote:
>>>Mr. Giwer has been posting with two different headers.  Perhaps, he has
>>>just changed the way his software is set up, or perhaps Marduk is at it
>>>again.
>>>
>>>Comments?

>>    Genuine Giwer articles come from visibly different posting hosts than
>>the Marduk forgeries.  I haven't received any rugelach in the mail, so
>>unless Marduk has gotten smarter, the new headers are still genuine Giwer,
>>and the content appears to be as well.

>I would tend to agree.  A Giwer a day keeps the MAALOX away.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Then there were some show acquittals
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 08:56:45 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl8-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  1:58:54 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q4nhi$3mh@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael
>P. Stein) said:

>>
>>In article <4q2mto$aua@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
>>  plagiarized the work of Carlos Porter without
>>giving proper attribution:

>>[snip]

>>    Probably lifted from: 

>>http://www.valleynet.com/~brsmith/trials/trintglt.html

>>    Presenting the work of others without proper attribution is dishonest
>>and lacks integrity.  Mr. Porter should be given proper credit for his
>>work.

>You surely didn't expect any better, did you Mr. Stein?


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                    


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Monty Python strikes again
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 03:46:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <4qfqe4$mi1@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4q4udv$dem@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <31C88353.27E4@unb.ca> <4qd61i$vfi@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-28.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 21 10:48:20 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31C88353.27E4@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>> 
>>>         "He's a Nazi! A Nazi!"
>>> 
>>>         "And how do you know he is a Nazi?"
>>> 
>>>         "He gassed me and burned me up."
>>> 
>>>         Quizzical look.
>>> 
>>>         "I got better."

>>Oh I'm a trolling Giwer and I'm okay
>>I lie all night and I lie all day

>>I make up quotes, I rant and rave
>>I don't know history
>>People catch my lying
>>So I just turn around and flee

>>Oh he's a trolling moron and he's a twit
>>All he ever does is try to cause some shit

>>I fudge the facts and make statements bold
>>And hope no one will check
>>That my carefully crafted logic
>>Is all a load of dreck

>>Oh he's a trolling lowlife and he's a worm
>>Catch him in a lie and watch him squirm

>>I'm an expert of anthropology
>>Engineering and the law
>>Too bad my sources all say
>>That I have diarrhea of the jaw

>>Oh he's a trolling Giwer and he's a pain
>>Tommorrow he posts the same lies again

>>Oh he's a trolling Giwer and he's a jerk...

>An absolute classic.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
.... When the last one was in,
the doors were shut and the gas was let into the room. As soon as death
had set in, the
ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again, the
doors were opened, and the
Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special procedure...
they were burned in the
open air without the use of fuel. "
IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: An interesting point
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:30:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  4:32:36 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>In article <4q9teg$q37@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>,
>  wrote:
>>mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:
>>>Mr. Stein, this Giwer Troll does not care how honest you are. 
>>
>>      If he were there would be no issue.  

>    I have on several occasions posted quotations and DejaNews URLs to
>prove Mr. Giwer a liar.  I have neither the right nor the means to prevent
>him from returning the favor any time he thinks such evidence exists.  So
>far he has posted none.  Why do you suppose that could be?

>    Errors?  Yes, I have made some.  I will undoubtedly make more.  When
>called to my attention, I will publicly apologize and retract.  That is as
>honest as I know how to be.  Speaking of which, I think I do owe one to
>Mr.  Giwer: I made the same mistake as Dr. Bilik about _why_ he made the
>statement about HCN from burning coke.  Of course, Mr. Giwer has made
>countless mistakes (at least)  in his statements about what other people
>have said.
>-- 
>Mike Stein                     The above represents the Absolute Truth.
>POB 10420                      Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
>Arlington, VA  22210           position of my employer.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






Path: news.voyager.net!fred.enteract.com!chi-news.cic.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Many things change
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 21:02:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <4qf2pe$7kb@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-07.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 21  4:04:46 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4q7bo8$3uu@boris.eden.com>, mcurtis@eden.com (Mike Curtis) said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>>>>>> Because you are technoligically incapable of dealing with it.  

>>>>>>    Someone who is technologically incapable of mastering a
>spell-checker
>>>>>>is in no position to comment.

>>>>>   I was not aware Free Agent has a spell checker.  How is it used?  

>>>>What?  The great computer genius and inventor of HTML has not even
>mastered
>>>>a spell-checker?  

>>>     FREE Agent does not have one, fool.

>>Then pay for the edition that does. I think it is around 30 dollars. It'll
>>handle everything almost.  

>>I'm cheap. I like misspelling words. You are my hero so I try to imulate
>>you.

>>Mike Cutrisoglv

>Well put.


>--
>Gord McFeesteinostrovskyvay



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                  
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 08:57:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  1:59:39 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>I'm sorry about this, but there is a certain member of this newsgroup who
>has been implying that certain female members of this newsgroup are fat. 
>Now, normally, that kind of troll (I refuse to specify who I mean) would be
>ignored.  But since that person is the incarnation of historical and other
>accuracy, I can only say that 'fess up time has come.  Members of this
>newsgroup are hereby ordered to post the following information (men
>included, since there is a chance some of them are fat too):

>Age (real or imputed)
>Height
>Weight
>Body build
>Hair color
>Eye color
>Number of bones in skull (ear-bones excluded)
>Number of bones in pelvis (ear-bones excluded)
>Favorite color of silica gel
>IQ (to the nearest 100)
>Highest level of education obtained
>Highest level of education claimed
>Employment history (real or imagined)

>The winner gets an 8x12 glossy of a _Lord of the Rings_ character (can you
>guess which one?).

>P.S. This is not spam material.  It is also not steak, hamburger or chicken.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                             


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 08:57:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <4qgcmi$h0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl8-02.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  2:00:02 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Laura Finsten  wrote:

>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>I'm sorry about this, but there is a certain member of this newsgroup who
>>has been implying that certain female members of this newsgroup are fat. 
>>Now, normally, that kind of troll (I refuse to specify who I mean) would be
>>ignored.  But since that person is the incarnation of historical and other
>>accuracy, I can only say that 'fess up time has come.  Members of this
>>newsgroup are hereby ordered to post the following information (men
>>included, since there is a chance some of them are fat too):

>Age (real or imputed)     29???  

>Height                    6'???

>Weight                    125??? (don't ask if its lbs or kgs, though)

>Body build                No, it was making me look too muscular

>Hair color                I don't colour my hair

>Eye color                 I don't wear eye make-up

>Number of bones in skull (ear-bones excluded)   will have to get back to
>Number of bones in pelvis (ear-bones excluded)  you on these ones in a
>                                                couple of decades

>Favorite color of silica gel     well of course, blue, for silica gel
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               as for everything else

>IQ (to the nearest 100)                  I only know my hat-size, is that an acceptable
>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       substitute?  Rushton thinks so.

>Highest level of education obtained   I don't need no stinkin' edgecashun

>Highest level of education claimed    Why claim what you don't need?
>    
>Employment history (real or imagined) Yeah, I imagine employment.


>>The winner gets an 8x12 glossy of a _Lord of the Rings_ character (can you
>>guess which one?).

>Hey, Gord, what are the criteria for judging, anyway?

>>P.S. This is not spam material.  It is also not steak, hamburger or chicken.

>Tofu?


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger needed
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:22:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <4qhoag$34f@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pnnhj$2sd@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  <4q44r4$6g5@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <4q9h90$1fq@shiva.usa.net> <4qao4q$i6d@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <31CB22B0.5E83@unb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  2:24:32 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Keith Morrison  wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <4q44r4$6g5@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com whines:
>> 
>> >       Holohuggers have different ideas of what constitutes their
>> >       holocausts.  But they are more than willing to start in with the
>> >       name calling even only things they have flatly wrong.
>> 
>> >As if "holohugger" is not a prime example of name calling!  As if Mr.
>> >Giwer has ever disproved a single facet of Holocaust history!
>> 
>>         If you have a better one word name, I will consider using it.  Absent
>> that, I will continue.

>How about "literate"?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: No wonder we can't find the bodies
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 21:08:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <4qhngp$6eb@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pq203$8bh@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <31c411e7.144782@news.pacificnet.net> <4q1p5u$1oo@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <31C5E9F0.18AE@unb.ca> <4q69a8$pq3@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA> <31CB1971.57F2@unb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl6-06.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  4:10:49 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Laura Finsten wrote:
>> 
>> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> [cut]
>> 
>> >For those who might have missed it, do read that thread.  Mr
>> >Giwer pulls a gaff worthy of tom Moran at his height.  He told
>> >me to check out Grey's Anatomy to verify his answer.  So I
>> > did.  Twenty-two bones in the skull and seven in the pelvis,
>> >not counting the six small bones of the ears.
>> 
>> Keith, the ears are not part of the pelvis.  Although perhaps
>> troll anatomy differs significantly from human anatomy in that
>> area??
>> 
>> >"Look, Dad!  Ain't that the biggest trapped troll you ever saw?!"

>That it does.  They sit on their ears.  Never wonder why
>they never appear to hear anything that proves them wrong?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Nazi Massacre Of the Insane, I
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:27:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4q31en$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:28:23 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from chief of institution for feeble-minded in Stetten to
>Reich Minister of justice Dr. Frank, September 6 1940
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 854]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Reich Minister,

>The measure being taken at present with mental patients of all
>kinds have caused a complete lack of confidence in justice among
>large groups of people. Without the consent of relatives and
>guardians, such patients are being transferred to different
>institutions. After a short time they are notified that the
>person concerned has died of some disease...

>If the state really wants to carry out the extermination of these
>or at least of some mental patients, shouldn't a law be
>promulgated, which can be justified before the people - a law
>that would give everyone the assurance od careful examination
>as to whether he is due to die or entitled to live and which
>would also give the relatives a chance to be heard, in a
>similar way, as provided by the law for the prevention of
>Hereditarily affected Progeny?

>


>-Danny Keren.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Nazi Massacre Of the Insane, II
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:27:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 45
Message-ID: <4q31fk$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:28:52 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from Dr. Wurm, of the Wuerttemberg Evangelical Provincial Church,
>to Reich Minister of interior Dr. Frick, September 5 1940
>[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
>Off., 1946, Supp. A, p. 1223]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Dear Reich Minister,

>On July 19th I sent you a letter about the systematic extermination
>of lunatics, feeble-minded and epileptic persons. Since then this
>practice has reached tremendous proportions: recently the inmates of
>old-age homes have also been included. The basis for this practice
>seems to be that in an efficient nation there should be no room
>for weak and frail people. It is evident from the many reports which
>we are receiving that the people's feelings are being badly hurt
>by the measures ordered and that the feeling of legal insecurity
>is spreading which is regrettable from the point of view of national
>and state interest.

>


>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Nazi Massacre Of the Insane, III
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:28:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <4q31gk$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:29:24 AM CDT 1996
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler to SS-Oberfuehrer Brack, 
>19 December 1940
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 856]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------               
>Dear Brack,

>I hear there is great excitement on the Alb because of the Grafeneck
>Institution. 
>The population recognizes the gray automobiles of the SS and think they
>know what is going on at the constantly smoking crematory.  What happens
>there is a secret and yet is no longer one.  Thus the worst feeling has
>arisen there, and in my opinion there remains only one thing, to
>discontinue the use of the institution in this place and in any event
>disseminate information in a clever and sensible manner by showing motion
>pictures on the subject of inherited and mental diseases in just that
>locality. 

>May I ask for a report as to how the difficult problem is solved?

>


>-Danny Keren.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Nazi Massacre Of the Insane, IV
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:28:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <4q31hv$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:30:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from Dr. Hilfrich, Bishop of Limburg, to the Reich Minister of
>Justice, August 13 1941 
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I, p. 845-846]
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Regarding the report submitted on July 16 by the Chairman of the Fulda
>Bishops' conference, Cardinal Dr. Bertram, I consider it my duty to
>present the following as a concrete illustration of destruction of
>so-called "useless life".

>About 8 Kilometers from Limburg in the little town of Hadamar, on a
>hill overlooking the town, there is an institution which had formerly
>served various purposes and of late had been used as a nursing home.
>This institution was renovated and furnished as a place in which, by
>consensus of opinion, the above mentioned Euthanasia has been
>systematically practiced for months- approximately since February
>1941. This fact is, of course, known beyond the administrative
>district of Wiesbaden...

>Several times a week buses arrive in Hadamard with a considerable
>number of such victims. School children of the vicinity know this
>vehicle and say "here comes the murder-box again". After the arrival
>of the vehicle, the citizens of Hadamar watch the smoke rise out of
>the chimney...

>The effect of the principles at work here that children call each
>other names and say "you're crazy; you'll be sent to the baking oven
>in Hadamar"...

>All God-fearing man consider this destruction of helpless beings a
>crass injustice...

>Officials of the State Police, it is said, are trying to suppress
>discussions of the Hadamar occurrences by means of severe threats...

>I beg you most humbly, Herr Reich Minister, in the sense of the report
>of the Episcopate of 16 July of this year, to prevent further
>transgressions of the Fifth Commandment of God.

>


>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Nazi Massacre Of the Insane, V
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:29:00 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <4q31if$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:30:23 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Extract from the Diary of General Halder, September-November 1941
>[Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunals - 
>Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. X, p. 1195-1196]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>26 September 1941:
> .
> .
>h. Mental institutions in Army Group North. Russians regards the
>   feebleminded as sacred beings. Killing them is necessary,
>   nontheless.

>


>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies By SS-Men About Gassing, IX
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 05:05:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 85
Message-ID: <4q5dgt$m1r@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4pu07v$1bj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31C2E38C.36B3@rio.com> <4pvu79$cph@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4q582g$2a4c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jun 18 12:06:37 AM CDT 1996
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4pvu79$cph@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:


>>      It must be senility.  alt.revision belongs to revision, not to orthodoxy. 
>>It is people like you who do not belong here.  

>Then perhaps the Giwer-troll should fold up his tent of lies and steal away,
>if the tellers of the truth disturb him so much.  Of course, liars are not
>enamored of those who tell the truth.  What Giwer-troll lies you say? 
>Why.....

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>   
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies By SS-Men About Gassing, IX
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 10:13:10 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4qgh3p$goh@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pvu79$cph@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4qduh6$m01@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 22  5:15:21 AM CDT 1996
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jbelling@sprynet.com wrote:

>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:
>>  Chuck Ferree  wrote:
>>  
>>  >Chuck Ferree wrote:
>>  
>>  >Can't stand your whining, Mr. Giewer. Please stop posting the same old 
>>  >complaint on every post re SS men tell the truth. 
>>  
>>  
>>  >Matt Giwer wrote:
>>  
>>  >>         It would not be so bad if you were spamming just one message but you
>>  >> spam hundreds of the same messages every week. 
>>  
>>  >Jeez, this is even a lie. You're so far gone you don't know what day 
>>  >it is. This man is trying to offer evidence which you keep asking for, 
>>  >so what is your gripe? Maybe TIT FOR TAT like your girlfriend, Ingrid
>>  >In any case this alt. rev. site doesn't belong to the deniers, and 
>>  >liars. Just grit your teeth. The evidence will be coming and you need 
>>  >to accept it gracefully.
>>  
>>      It must be senility.  alt.revision belongs to revision, not to
>>  orthodoxy.  It is people like you who do not belong here.  
>>   
>>  >>         Why do you do this?
>>  
>>  >Who cares!!! But it's good and needs to be done.
>>  
>>      With stories like yours you should listen to them.  At least you could
>>  get with the program.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>>>>
>what evidence?  Where is it?  We've been waiting over 50 years for you to
>manufacture it.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall,
approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war stood with
the back of his head
against the slot and a sniper shot at him from behind the slot. In
practice this arrangement did not
prove satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8
days a new arrangement
was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against the wall; an iron
plate was then slowly
lowered onto his head. The prisoner was under the impression that he was
being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with
a blow on the back of the head. He dropped dead. The iron plate was
operated by a foot lever in
a corner of the room. "
IMT VII - p. 377. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies By SS-Men About Gassing, XIII
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 05:05:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <4q5dhg$m1r@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4pu0i3$1bj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31c32d02.10315026@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4pvdc5$nur@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <31c3ba63.46513376@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4q582t$2a4u@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jun 18 12:06:56 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31c3ba63.46513376@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) said:



>>If anyone did harrass your family, they should be ashamed of
>>themselves. That is not how decent people act. I can accept that you might
>>not know anything about that.

>The only person who harassed the Giwer-troll's family was the Giwer-troll
>himself, with clumsily forged messages.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                  
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Testimonies By SS-Men About Gassing, XIII
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 05:05:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 98
Message-ID: <4q5dhq$m1r@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4pu0i3$1bj@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <31c32d02.10315026@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4pvdc5$nur@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4q5821$1eru@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-14.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jun 18 12:07:06 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4pvdc5$nur@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>>
>>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>>>On Sat, 15 Jun 1996 09:41:22 GMT, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>>wrote:

>>>>    Why the weekly spamming of the same material?

>>>Sniff, sniff, snivel.

>>      When I was accused of it, it was sufficient justification to harrass my
>>service provider until I was removed.  It is still used as justification
>>for that harrassment.  It is also used to justify the harrassment of my
>>family.  

>Another Giwer-troll lie.  He was booted by his provider because he was an
>obnoxious, harassing asshole.  The spamming, which he did by the bucket
>load, was the crowning achievement.  But wait!  The list of Giwer-lies is
>almost endless.  Just a sampling:

>1. That the allies did not refer to themselves as the "United 
>   Nations";
>2. That tape recorders were not available during WWII;
>3. That head lice are the vector for typhus;
>4. That the IMT convicted and hung defendants for participating in 
>   the Katyn Wood massacre;
>5. That Oswald Pohl was convicted of "steaming" people to death;
>6. That Turkey is part of Europe;
>7. That Raoul Wallenberg was a financial contributor to building 
>   the Holocaust Museum in Washington;
>8. That there were no protests in front of the Cambodian embassy 
>   in Washington;
>9. That "Miranda rights" were not in use in the miliary justice 
>   system prior to the Miranda decision;
>10. That the jury system is considered a basic human right by the 
>    United Nations . . . .. . 
>11. That Israel has a written constitution;
>12. That CO2 gas cannot be an acid;
>13. That burning of coke is a commercial source of HCN;
>14. That the Nazi boycott of Jewish stores in April 1933 lasted 
>    only one day. . . .
>15. That Ca3(PO4)2 burns.
>16. That burning atmospheric nitrogen produces HCN.
>17. That human beings are only (.18)(.10) = 1.8% fat.
>18. That combustion of the human body is not exothermic.
>19. That atmospheric CO2 saturates water so that it cannot
>    dissolve more CO2 if the partial pressure increase.
>20. That the calcium in bones burns.
>21. That Mr. McFee is Marduk.
>22. That Mueller was not head of the Gestapo.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                         
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the 'Gassing Aapparatuses'
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 07:26:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <4q31dk$4h6@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl10-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jun 17  2:27:48 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
>[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
>Press, 1984, p. 70]
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
>Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
>Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
>the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
>first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
>apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
>than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
>send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
>Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
>Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
>question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
>precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
>contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
>your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
>dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
>that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
>Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
>office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
>information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
>Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
>[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
>evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
>fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
>present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
>without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
>those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
>to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
>mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
>procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
>fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
>the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
>apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
>to any further measures you take.

>

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:36:48 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 53
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References: <4q8dtd$3i7@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qau2l$lmo@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <4qik5i$f8o@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <4qm4eu$1qji@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qik5i$f8o@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>(Richard Schultz) said:

>>
>>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

>>:     To wit, I will flay alive your holocaust alive even more quickly if :
>>people follow your suggestion. 

>>What a card this Myshkin guy is.  As it happens, other revisionist types
>>(most notably Milton Kleim) have made this sort of claim before, and this
>>claim is invariably shown to be untrue.  The lurkers on this newsfroup
>>almost certainly see you for what you are -- a pathetic liar with the
>>inability to keep his own lies straight, let alone deal with the
>>refutations of those lies.

>More than that.  Now that I have him under my control, his days in this
>newsgroup are numbered.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 1-9: 12.7% / 18.3%
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:32:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qk2sj$9fq@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>(Ken McVay OBC) said:

>>Actually, this is not the first time we've seen this sort of
>>long-term, all out assault. As to the numbers, our present
>>troll is a piker, hardly worth our time.

>Perhaps "pike" would be a better word?  :-)

>>Consider the fact that Dan Gannon, a man who now finds it more comfortable
>>- and perhaps more profitable - to offer his users sexually explicit adult
>>images than Holocaust denial, once
>>appeared on the UseNet "Top 50 Posters By Volume" on the
>>entire net. He was consistantly within the top 25 for month
>>after month. Unlike our present pretender, Mr. Gannon
>>sometimes spammed as many as 80+ newsgroups at a shot.

>Now Mr. McVay, don't reveal to Mr. Giwer how badly he trolls.  And how badly
>he spams.  Hell, he'll probably start spamming the whole Usenet.


>>Be patient with Mr. Giwer. He has not yet learned those things which Dan
>>Gannon learned, but he is trying, even if weakly, to emulate him. Matt
>>Giwer, The Man Who Would Be King: not even a ranking spammer. It's sad,
>>really. Giwer can't even get net abuse down pat.

>A third-rate spammer, not worthy to be even mentioned in the same breath
>with Gannon.


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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:25:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4ql78q$fqv@panix3.panix.com>, sethb@panix.com (Seth Breidbart)
>said:

>>
>>In article <4qhjhi$21r@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>,
>>  wrote:

>>>     You fail to note that the Gang of Six at Nizkor conspires by email to
>>>prevent discussion of revisionism on alt.revisionism.

>>Since I find it impossible to believe that they copy you on their email,
>>you're claiming to have read other people's email without their
>>permission.  That's a felony in the US.

>>Or are you just lying (as usual)?

>He's just lying as usual.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  





>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                       







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:25:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
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References: <4q9apb$7mi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qc06s$g8h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4qnnvj$qpg@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) said:

>[snip]

>>Posted;  cross-posted to news.admin.net-abuse.misc.  Please redirect
>>followups to whichever group is most appropriate.

>>Not emailed to "DvdThomas," because he has said he doesn't care to receive
>>email from me.  Not emailed to Matt Giwer, because he has said he doesn't
>>care to receive email from me.

>Giwer is afraid to receive e-mail from you.  He can't cope with it.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                      







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 07:10:50 GMT
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References: <4q9apb$7mi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qc06s$g8h@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <4qhjhi$21r@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <31cce631.50736571@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4qj2nn$rc9@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31cda0a4.4292426@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4qki0q$t82@d <31cf8d4b.58604310@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4qt0q1$l4q@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31cf8d4b.58604310@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) said:

>>
>>On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:47:15 GMT, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>[snip]

>>>>For the third time, I deny your allegation, and I challenge you to
>>>>produce evidence that I have participated in a conspiracy to prevent
>>>>discussion on alt.revisionism or any other Usenet newsgroup or else to
>>>>withdraw the allegation.

>>>     Guilt by association will go just fine.  

>>I asked three times for evidence of his allegations; three times Mr. Giwer
>>failed to produce it.

>>Well, this is as close as anyone ever gets to getting an admission from
>>Mr. Giwer that his allegations are groundless, so I guess I'll just have
>>to be satisified.

>Be satisfied that in your most terrified moment, you are not half as afraid
>as Giwer in his most courageous.


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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:27:25 GMT
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 



gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo4e0$m12@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>[referring to gutless Giwer]

>>>He's just lying as usual.

>Oops--away he runs again.

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Another gas chamber
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

>>      Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>>powdered cyanide.  

>>"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>>dummy shower heads. In
>>the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control
>>inflow and outtake of
>>gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>>generate the lethal smoke.
>>From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. " IMT XXX
>>- p.470. 

>>      Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

>>      And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>                 

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>   







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 10-13: 21.1% / 26.1%
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 



gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo4f1$m12@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>Giwer is afraid to receive e-mail from you.  He can't cope with it.

>Runs away again.  I have, as usual, defeated him.

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Another gas chamber
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

>>      Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>>powdered cyanide.  

>>"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>>dummy shower heads. In
>>the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control
>>inflow and outtake of
>>gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>>generate the lethal smoke.
>>From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. " IMT XXX
>>- p.470. 

>>      Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

>>      And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                     







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dresden?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:26:07 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo5dn$pvn@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:


>>      What a juvenile.  When you learn something get back to me.  


>>      What people have to realize is that we are faced with posts like this.
>>They seem to believe that there was no history before they were born and
>>that landfills were always the way things were done.

>>      No matter how stupid that is, incineration was the preferred method up
>>until the EPA got the power to ban it.  There were no landfills prior to
>>then.  Incineration is cheaper.  (speaking of bodies ...)  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:31:50 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:
>> 
>># Relevant, def. supports holohugger PNE fixation.
>> 
>>No, relevant with regard to the rate of evaporation
>>of HCN from Zyklon. Seems your estimate was off by a
>>factor of 16 or so.

>About the same factor by which he has over-estimated his IQ, wouldn't you
>say?


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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time






>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                   







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:05:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 66
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qta1s$qvf@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>Nothing, proving my point that I control him and he has lost.

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>>>said:

>>>>
>>>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:
>>>> 
>>>># Relevant, def. supports holohugger PNE fixation.
>>>> 
>>>>No, relevant with regard to the rate of evaporation
>>>>of HCN from Zyklon. Seems your estimate was off by a
>>>>factor of 16 or so.

>>>About the same factor by which he has over-estimated his IQ, wouldn't you
>>>say?

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                          
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: How soon is soon?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:58:19 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qu2mt$f1t@grivel.une.edu.au>, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au (ibokor)
>said:

>>
>>Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net) wrote:
>>: About the same factor by which he has over-estimated his IQ, wouldn't
>>you : say?

>>No. "IQ", at least in the case you seem to be discussing
>>stands for   Interference Quotient,
>>which is the noise-to-signal ratio of the emissions emanating from the
>>source in question, measured in gigabels.

>Then he has obviously *under-estimated* his IQ by the factor indicated.




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                                 
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 960502: It is amazing that the world has not yet been informed of this
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 20:48:47 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 1996 06:24:03 GMT, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>>>>Post you calculations.  

>>>    After you, my dear Alphonse.  Your claim, your burden of proof.  Sorry
>>>about that.

>>      I did.  You deleted them, asshole.  What kind of stupid game do you
>>think you are playing?  

>Please stick to topics, and do not resort to unprovoked name calling.

>--
> John Morris                               
> at University of Alberta     
>------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
> The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Resource
>  File archives - ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca
>  Web page - http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron exposes shameless Jewish Holocaust liars
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 20:12:51 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qpk2d$lif@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>>>
>>>2. The above analysis refers to the currently 50% or so of the newsgroup
>>>   that does not concern Prince Myshkin, of course. The Myshkin half is
>>>   all trolling. I don't think Myshkin has anything particular against
>>>   Jews or for Hitler. He just hates everybody.
>>>
>>>

>>Thanks for the vote of confidence, pal.  As for Myshkin, aka Matt, I think
>>you misjudge him.  He doesn't hate anybody.  But he doesn't have to kiss
>>up to anybody either.

>I wonder about you, Mr. Ehrlich.  Does calling a fellow poster a "cunt" not
>imply a little hate?  Does making sexist, racist remarks not imply a little
>hate?  Does making anti-semitic remarks not imply a little hate?  Does doing
>*all* of the above, in the last week alone, not imply a *lot* of hate? 
>Giwer has done all that.

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.history.what-if
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 23:46:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Xref: news.voyager.net alt.revisionism:50493 soc.history.what-if:10834

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qijgv$f8o@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>(Richard Schultz) said:

>>
>>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

>>[re: so-called "harassment" of his family]

>>:     I am posting what happened.  If you choose not to believe it, : that
>>is your problem.  

>>It's not a matter of what I believe or don't believe.  You have presented
>>*no* evidence (as in zero, zilch, zip) for your claim.  And by your own
>>arguments, if there's no evidence, it didn't happen.  Right?

>He never will, since the so-called harassment of his family was in fact
>carried out by him.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                   
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:30:34 GMT
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley  said:

>[about the alleged harassment of Gutless Giwer]

>>And I have never seen you identify any of the people, besides Marduk, who
>>you are accusing of harrassing your family (and Marduk's "harassment"
>>seems to consist of one or two e-mail messages sent to your son).  Please
>>provide evidence that any of the other regular participants have harassed
>>your family, or withdraw your claim.

>That's because there was no harassment and no e-mail to his son.  But Giwer
>knows that.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:00:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4qkud2$7li@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> 


>> >----------------------
>> >Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)
>> 
>> >"It would be such a relief to think the people in charge knew 
>> >what they were doing, even if they were bent on mischief....[but] 
>> >stupidity is far more important than conspiracy in determining 
>> >man's fate.  Simple dumbness, along with luck, chance, and 
>> >accident, runs well ahead of conspiracy in the causation category."  
>> >                               --Molly Ivins
>> 
>>         Ah, yes, the wit and wisdom of Molly "I am outraged" Ivins.  Or would
>> the Nizkorites consider you to be spamming the same message over and
>> over?  
> 
>And when all else fails, Mr. Giwer mocks the sig line. Wassamatter, Giwer,
>couldn't think of any other bullshit to spew?
> 
>Oh yeah, don't forget:
> 
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

> 
>Sara

>-- 
>The only power available to you lies in your submission.
>    Pete Townshend
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, Holocaust Revisionsism
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 00:25:45 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qt9ve$qvf@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>[about the alleged harassment of Gutless Giwer]

>>>>And I have never seen you identify any of the people, besides Marduk, who
>>>>you are accusing of harrassing your family (and Marduk's "harassment"
>>>>seems to consist of one or two e-mail messages sent to your son).  Please
>>>>provide evidence that any of the other regular participants have harassed
>>>>your family, or withdraw your claim.

>>>That's because there was no harassment and no e-mail to his son.  But
>Giwer
>>>knows that.

>Note that for the seventh time, Giwer does not deny that the harassment was
>a lie on his part.

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


>>" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
>>entrances to the four-story
>>house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased, the
>>same people were
>>forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
>>had to be transferred to one
>>place in the courtyard. "
>>IMT VII - p.491. 

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Lies and Damn Lies
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:20:06 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Alexander Baron  writes:

># I have now done further research on this and there were definitely
># human skin artifacts. 

>There you go. Now Giwer has to call Baron a holohugger.

>BTW, Koch went to prison for murdering German inmates, didn't 
>she? Her husband, as I recall, was executed by the SS for theft.


>-Danny Keren.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Deniers' True Colours (was Re: Lets get this straight)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:49:39 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4qld1d$sdv@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:



>>         I would also point out that several times I have attempted to engage a
>> discussion based upon those repetitive posts and he has not respoonded
>> to any of those attempts.  

>Mr. Giwer has NEVER attempted tp engage in a discussion. Not in the entire
>time he has contributed to this newsgroup.
> 
>Those of us who have been here a bit longer have pretty good memories. We
>remember when open, free debate existed here. When exchanges of ideas
>(sometimes polite, sometimes rabid) were interesting, intellectually
>stimulating, sometimes funny, sometimes frustrating, but always conducted
>on a level that made dissent not only possible, but encouraged.
> 
>Then Mr. Giwer appeared. The rest is bullshit.
> 
>And oh, before I forget:
> 
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

> 
>Sara

>-- 
>You can't stand still on freedom's track,
>if you don't go forward, you go back.
>You can't "Giddy-up" by saying "Whoa"
>and sitting on your status quo.
>        Pins & Needles
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:48:30 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>      I will deal with my own statements.  


>       Fine.  then explain to us how a man can be repeatedly beaten with rifle 
>butts (note plural), psitol butts (note plural) and pistol barrels (note plural) and not 
>sustain injuries noticable on medical examination.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 02:23:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <4qn1m2$d08@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU
>(Richard J. Green) wrote:

>> In article <4qhonc$ofi@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
>> Ehrlich606  wrote:
>> 
>> >What I see from Matt Giwer's posts are pretty reasonable.
>> 
>> I find it surprising that Mr. Ehrlich would say such a thing after his
>> spat with Mr. Giwer awhile ago.
>> 

>Could he have been assimilated by the Giwer_troll? 'Gads, what a fate! 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        



>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:45:07 GMT
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rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>In article <4qp712$fad@access5.digex.net>,
>Michael P. Stein  wrote:

>>    You have libeled me by posting to make people think I am guilty of
>>doing dishonest things I have not done, such as editing out your
>>computations of calorie requirements.  So where did I call you antisemitic
>>and a Nazi?  Please produce those posts.  Or do you claim that if one
>>person libels you, you have the right to libel anyone you like?

>Not even I have called the person in question either of those things.  
>I have called him a Nazi-apologist (a claim for which there is ample
>evidence). I have also posted evidence that one might interpret to say
>that he is an antisemite, but I have left that up to the reader to
>decide.  To refresh some memories:

>Is Matt Giwer an antisemite?   You be the judge:

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 








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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:18:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Xref: news.voyager.net news.admin.net-abuse.misc:57112 alt.revisionism:52347

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r1ago$g6a@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rich@c2.org (Rich Graves)
>said:

>>>Name one Jewish group attempting to silence Mr. Giwer.  You can't
>>>because no one is trying to silence him.  I suggest you learn the facts
>>>before making knee-jerk PC anti-PC statements.  The new PC seems to be
>>>to accuse anyone who expresses their opposition to bigotry and ignorance
>>>of being PC.  I suggest reading alt.revisionism before jumping to
>>>conclusions.

>>Rich, I suggest adding Ricardo "Autocyberretromoderationbot" Gonzalez to
>>your killfile. 

>Yeah, he's a loon.

>> http://www.paranoia.com/~ricardo/faq.html

>>As for Giwer, he is so obviously an asshole that I encourage him to speak
>>out. Gord controls him, you know.

>I know, I know, but keep it quiet.  :-)


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                       
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:18:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r1dan$25q@d31rz3.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz3.Stanford.EDU
>(Richard J. Green) said:

>>
>>In article <4r1ago$g6a@Networking.Stanford.EDU>,
>>Rich Graves  wrote:

>>>Rich, I suggest adding Ricardo "Autocyberretromoderationbot" Gonzalez to
>>>your killfile. 

>>Thanks.

>>>As for Giwer, he is so obviously an asshole that I encourage him to speak
>>>out. Gord controls him, you know.

>>But, I'm Gordon McFeee...

>You may be Gordon McFeee, but I'm Gord McFee and *I* control Giwer.  He is
>my obedient little puppy.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:17:53 GMT
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> 
>> Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> >Matt Giwer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <4qv45s$kfb@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>> >> >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>         When the message I respond to me contains an attack against me thus
>> >> >> deviating the from the serious debate that the holohuggers claim they
>> >> >> want then I will continue to respond in that manner.
>> >>
>> >> >Attacks such as calling a woman "fatbroad"?
>> >> >
>> >> >Hmmm... looks like a bit of Pot. Kettle. Black here, Mr. Giwer.
>> >>
>> >>         That worked to instantly shut off her silly on me.  So why not?
>> 
>> >Well, if it works I guess it's okay...you slimesucking piece of
>> >diatom excrement.
>> 
>>         Another example of the kind of debate the holohuggers claim they want to
>> conduct on alt.revisionism.  Thank you.  You are expressing your cause
>> for what is it worth.

>And anyone who read the entirety of the post would quickly realize
>in what context the comments were made.

>*sigh*  No sense of humour, either.  What a truly sad individual.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Responds to the Charges of Net Abuse
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 07:19:32 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4r6hjm$2df6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
>wrote:

>>In article <4r1dan$25q@d31rz3.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz3.Stanford.EDU
>>(Richard J. Green) said:

>>>
>>>In article <4r1ago$g6a@Networking.Stanford.EDU>,
>>>Rich Graves  wrote:

>>>>Rich, I suggest adding Ricardo "Autocyberretromoderationbot" Gonzalez to
>>>>your killfile. 

>>>Thanks.

>>>>As for Giwer, he is so obviously an asshole that I encourage him to speak
>>>>out. Gord controls him, you know.

>>>But, I'm Gordon McFeee...

>>You may be Gordon McFeee, but I'm Gord McFee and *I* control Giwer.  He is
>>my obedient little puppy.

>Yeah, but just remember McFeestein, this is only temporary contratroll
>that you have been granted.  (Just wait till it's my turn, folks.)
>And btw, McFeestein, what colour is your (parachute and) decoder ring
>finger today, eh?


>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Such mastery of the English Language!
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 06:18:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qmt2i$q85@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:

>>
>>In <4qmc1a$d10@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c
>>anderson) wrote:

>>>mg*wer@*x.netcom.com wrote:

>>>:    If you are interested in the dictionary it is right there before
>>>: fatbroad.  
>>>: 

>>[snip]

>>>Boy.  Just when you think he can't sink any lower...

>>Amazing isn't it?!  Well, not really.  You see, McFeestein thinks *he*
>>controls the troll - but the truth is *I* have the supreme power.  Did you
>>notice how I've unleashed the forces of mediocrity and they are popping up
>>all over this ng?!  Mr. Anderson, you ain't seen nothin' yet!  Wait till I
>>*really* swing into action:>)

>The problem, Ms. Ostrovvay, is that *both* of us control the troll.  In
>fact, everyone controls the troll.  In fact, controlling the troll is quite
>easy, and not much of a challenge.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                             
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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Such mastery of the English Language!
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 06:19:30 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qgdge$b62@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:


>>      If you are interested in the dictionary it is right there before
>>fatbroad.  

>>      The only way you got your title is by laying McVay and you know it.  You
>>have no other qualifications.  

>So obvious how the drunken Giwer acts when he is clearly being shown to be
>the fool he is, yet again.  Dish it out, but can't take it.  So easy to push
>his buttons.  So patently and obviously transparent.  So ready to whine
>about the alleged harassment of his family (which he actually did himself),
>yet so ready to engage in this kind of obscenity.

>Do you see this, Mr. Ehrlich?  Is this the "reasoned" discourse you lauded
>Mr. Giwer for?

>What about you, Mr. Moran?  Is this your hero?

>And lurkers?  Is Giwer the voice of a reasoned and reasonable attempt to
>understand the Holocaust?  Of course not.  He is a perverted, drunken,
>pathetic, prematurely senile fool.  He has lost the debate, even after he
>tried to change the rules.  He has lost because his anti-human venom bubbles
>so close to the surface, at all times, that he can't control it.  He argues
>not to make a point; he blasphemes in order to hurt people.  Not surprising
>that he throws in his lot with his hero Hitler, who suffered from the same
>depravity.

>No wonder he has been manipulated so easily.  No wonder he is reduced to
>this kind of grossness, or his usual method of not answering the post at
>all.  He is just a quivering little pile of jelly, shaking and quaking
>behind his keyboard, looking over his shoulder, looking for the ghosts.  No
>wonder virtually every human being with whom he has come into contact now
>shuns him.  All he has left is his hate and his meanness and his fear.

>Pathetic.  And horrible.

>>      You contribute nothing.

>>      You accept only sperm from a thing.

>All alone in the world.  Despised by all.  No one to bully around.  Bitter
>at the past and terrified of the future.  So jealous of "normal" people. 
>Knowing that the only ones who accept him are the anonymous Nazi denier
>scum.  Hating the real world, where people have at least a shred of humanity
>and loathing the fact that he has none.  

>Pathetic beyond words.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                    


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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Such mastery of the English Language!
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:48:18 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qojg2$1pc@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>>
>>In article <31cecec3.251558150@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
>>Curtis) writes:

>>>
>>>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>>>: 
>>>>:   The only way you got your title is by laying McVay and you know
>>it. 
>>>>
>>>>"One you miss out on is one you never make up for."
>>>>
>>>>I do believe you're jealous!!!
>>>
>>>It appears that the troll is getting downright smutty. You must have
>>>really got him angry to cause this inane nonresponse.
>>>
>>>Good show!
>>>
>>>Mike Curtis
>>>
>>Yeah, right, whereas if _someone else_ had said the same thing, in this
>>way *I do believe, Mr. Giwer, in your passion for *small details*, you
>>might care to enlighten the rest of us whether your position might not
>>have been due to the supine delivery of favors of a certain kind?*  --
>>which would have been _just fine_.

>I am astonished Mr. Ehrlich, that you would defend Giwer's vulgarity and
>obscenity--not the words (I have heard worse on television), but the vulgar,
>sexist implication of what he says.  Dress it up as you like, it is still
>obscene and unworthy--"unehrlich" in fact.  I thought you were above that.

>>And that is why I would advise Matt to tell his critics to lick his
>>staircase.

>Now *there's* an elevated contribution.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Such mastery of the English Language!
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:48:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27  1:51:40 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes:

>Kimberley...sounds like a pretty lady to me. But I feel ashamed that 
>such would be the case due to my being sort of uh, well, oh, Mmmm, uh, 
>well, ya know...shitty with Gyweyer. So Miss, I wanna apologize to you 
>because I do respect all feminity. The nasty way Gywieyier spoke to 
>Ms. Hilary, just got me all a-twitter. He's a very nasty man, not much 
>of a man either I must say in all due candor, more of a 
>fart-in-a-whirl-wind. (forgive me, Miss, again I spoke outta turn) I 
>think GIEWRYER 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 


did intend to infer that I was some sort of a fat 
>broad, and not a genuine war hero, fighter pilot at all. (wonder how 
>he found out) The FBI files the Prez swiped I bet. Well, tha jig is 
>up, I really worked in the 91st. MessKit Repair Battalion, they took 
>away my good conduct medal for unspeakable behaviour, stealing rivets 
>to build my own airplane after the war. Sorry to disappoint everyone, 
>who had so much faith in me. 
>Big hugs,
>assuming Kim understands my humiliation, and forgives me. 

>For the LIAR GWYIER: DON'T YOU CALL ME NO FAT BROAD NO MORE.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 


>Kimberley Ahlf wrote:
>> 
>> >Who you callin a fat broad, Gywer? Don't call a war hero like me a fat
>> >broad. Oh hell, I've put on a few pounds since I was one of the
>> >hottest fighter pilots in the ETO. But I bet I could still squeeze
>> >into my P-47. Little vasoline might help.
>> 
>> Chuck, I'm no expert, but looking at a picture in one of my little books
>> here it would seem to me that ANYBODY could squeeze into a P-47.
>> 
>> Just a thought...

>It's really very easy, if you're not chicken.
>Chuck







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Such mastery of the English Language!
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:07:01 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qsqa8$90l@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>>
>>In article <4qqen5$4iqe@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>>McFee) writes:

>>>All alone in the world.  Despised by all.  No one to bully around. 
>>Bitter
>>>at the past and terrified of the future.  So jealous of "normal" people. 
>>>Knowing that the only ones who accept him are the anonymous Nazi denier
>>>scum.  Hating the real world, where people have at least a shred of
>>humanity
>>>and loathing the fact that he has none.  
>>>
>>>Pathetic beyond words.

>>Get a grip, Gord.

>I *have* a grip, Mr. Ehrlich, a very good grip.  Perhaps you should examine
>the mirror.

>Why have you taken so to defending Giwer?  Surely a man of your wisdom does
>not align himself in Giwer's camp?  Or was Mr. Curtis right about you?


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                              
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revising the data, save the total
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:54:22 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <4qo64e$pvn@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:


>:      Auschwitz has lost 3M. . .

>Yawn.  Come back when you have a new lie -- or at least an interesting one.

>-----
>Richard Schultz                                     schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"I seem to smell a peculiar and a fishlike smell."

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  













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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 07:48:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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References: <4qng0m$mqi@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4qnum8$5uk@nuhou.aloha.net> <4qt0mb$1dh2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27  2:51:40 AM CDT 1996
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qnum8$5uk@nuhou.aloha.net>, jdamato@aloha.net (John DAmato)
>said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com 
>>wrote a sentence that doesn't seem to be english:

>>:     I was given the explanation for her being alive to leave Auschwitz was
>>: that she was 15 and that everyone under that age was exterminated :
>>immediately.  

>>Please try again or identify the language that you are writing in.  The
>>same goes for this one:

>>: Any record of anyone younger than that available?  

>John, you may be out of luck.  As near as I can tell, Mr. McVay is the only
>expert in Giwerian-Trollish, and he may have missed that post.

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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:47:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jun 27  6:50:45 PM CDT 1996
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gtaylor@msn.fullfeed.com (Gregory Taylor) wrote:

>Marty Kelley   wrote:
>>On 25 Jun 1996, one of the entities posting as M Huber wrote:
>>> The Diary... is a fraud, a hoax. In our local library, I have altered the 
>>> index and cards to reflect the truth, ie, it is categorized as 'fiction.'
>>
>>This is a remarkable example of putting one's revisionism into 
>>action--vandalizing the books and card catalogues of a public library 
>>(unless by "our local library" you mean a library that you own...).  

>Oh, I don't know. It seems rather fitting to contemplate our mighty
>Aryan warrior dyad furtively scribbling on local library cards to the
>glory of White Power Rangers everywhere. It's a nice match of neurons
>to task, since actually explaining to us *why* the diary's a hoax
>would just give the H*ber (rhymes with "goober") a headache....

>Giweresquely pathetic.

>-- 
>The arts are the field on which we place our own dreams, thoughts, and desires
>alongside those of others, so that solitudes can meet, to their joy sometimes,
>or to their surprise, and sometimes to their disgust.(R. Hughes) Gregory Taylor
>WORT-FM 89.9 Madison, Wisconsin http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~gtaylor/RTQE.html


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:49:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes for 606 and Gyweier

>606 and Gyiewer ain't even close on this one.


>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> Marty Kelley  wrote:
>> 
>> >On Wed, 26 Jun 1996 mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> >> ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >The film of the Auschwitz liberation has a clip showing some babies in
>> >> >prams as well as an adorable little boy about two feet tall in prison
>> >> >garb.  I saw a TV interview of the guy. He cried a lot.

>Meaning what, exactly? You mixed up what you saw. Didn't happen!

>> >>
>> >>      I thought the story was nonsense.  Thanks for the backup.


>clips...

>Bullshit, 606 & Gywer. You got your Nazi camps mixed up. When the 
>Soviets liberated Auschwitz, the only people left alive in any part of 
>the complex, were those who were too ill to walk out on the long death 
>march. The SS had intended to kill them all and had orders to do just 
>that. But they got out with thousands of inmates who died on the march 
>or were killed because they couldn't make it. Anne Frank has nothing 
>to do with this part of the story. She was an inmate, and was sent to 
>Bergen-Belsen along with other women, most of whom died of Typhus. 
>The Red Cross wasn't allowed in Auschwitz, to my knowledge. The 
>so-called family camp held former inmates from Theresienstadt, and 
>they were all gassed in the same time frame. The family camp was in 
>Birkenau. 


>> 
>> >You are both aware, are you not, that by the time of the liberation, the
>> >gas chambers had been out of operation for some time?  (Sorry, don't have
>> >the specifics with me as I write this).
>> 
>>        
>> 

>>         You folks keep quoting this crap in the face of physical evidence.

>You deniers have physical evidence? Of anything you say here? Produce 
>it now, or I'm calling you both liars. 
>> 
>>         Why is that?

>Why do the likes of you pair of turkeys, shoot off your mouths about 
>stuff you know nothing about, except what you may have read in some 
>stupid Nazi book. Come on get real.
>Chuck


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 05:45:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes for Gymer or Gomer or Goober...whatever:



>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> gtaylor@msn.fullfeed.com (Gregory Taylor) wrote:
>> 
>> >Marty Kelley   wrote:
>> >>On 25 Jun 1996, one of the entities posting as M Huber wrote:
>> >>> The Diary... is a fraud, a hoax. 

>clips


>> >Giweresquely pathetic.

>A gross understatement for a Professor at my school! 


>>         Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>> powdered cyanide.

>Mauven in color, which is exactly what it looked like. I had curtains 
>in my P-47, mauve in color, some of the guys made fun of me, but I 
>could hide from them nasty killer Cherman pilots. 


>See, see, see...that's exactly what I bin tryin to tell you guys (& 
>gals) Gas chamber inside the old Reich and tha new one too.

>Dachau, Mauthausen, and thousands of other places. Just think about 
>it. 
>> 
>> "Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>> dummy shower heads. In
>> the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
>> control inflow and outtake of
>> gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>> generate the lethal smoke.
>> From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
>> IMT XXX - p.470.

>Exactly what I saw, and say I saw, that I really seen it. But no...no 
>gas chambers on German soil. Biggest crock since the discovery of rich 
>oil deposits underneath Tucson.
>> 
>>         Amazing what you can find if you look around.

>Not amazing at all, for those who possess the slightest grasp of 
>reality. Now this guy is tongue in cheek (or thumb in ass) whatever, 
>but he has found the truth at last, except to him it ain't the truth, 
>because he has his own truth, except it ain't tha truth. 
>> 
>>         And holohuggers are going to believe it.

>It's believable, but a person must have a few brain cells available.
>Let's what's it's name out.
>Chuck

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:50:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com is caught in another lie:

>       The sound of Giwer being caught in a lie:
>>      A real Pennsylvania lawyer has spoken.

>       Yup.  And like most lawyers we check out our facts before we speak.  
>This is one way to tell  the difference between Matt Giwer and a lawyer.  Another 
> is that lawyer know what evidence is; Matty poo doesn't.
>  
>>      It must be true.

>       Actually the apparent claim by Matty poo is that there was a action for 
>plaqgarizism over the Frank Diary.  Matty poo says he remembers it (it does not 
>say whether he was drunk or sober when he heard it) so, therefore, everybody 
>must say it is true or Matty poo will hold his breath until his face turns blue and 
>then call everybody dirty names.
>       
>>      He has is paralegal certificate.  

>       See.  Matty poo caught in another of his lies reacts in his usual 
>fashion.  With hard work and several years of effort, Matty poo might attain the 
>maturity level of a seven year old.  So far he hasn't.

>       --YFE
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Communism is Jewish - Read it and weep.
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:43:17 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        

hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>One of my sig's reads:

>       To have compassion on animals is one of the laws of Moses.
>       -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.

>In article <4qcmi1$sau@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
>Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) could not refute my conclusions and
>decided to try to bait me instead:

>       Moses never existed.  There were no commandments.  Jews were not
>       chosen.  They were self annoited.  

>I responded:

>       And Mr. Giwer's IQ is not 163.  Mr. Giwer is not interested in
>       the truth.  Mr. Giwer gets his kicks from provoking people to
>       anger -- it is an inappropriate way of dealing with his own
>       repressed rage.

>In article <4qf7dr$kua@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>,
>Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) whines:

>       You have been reading too much Psychology Today.  Or do you
>       fancy yourself an armchair Freud?  

>What makes Mr. Giwer think that it would take a "Freud" to analyze
>his psyche?  In fact, his neuroses are all too shallow for even a pop
>magazine like Psychology Today to take any interest.


>       The truth is there is the Israelites were self-annointed.
>       There is nothing to their damn fool beliefs or any other
>       religious beliefs.  Is that too hard for you to deal with?

>The truth is that Mr. Giwer is an ignoramus who has no idea of what
>the truth actually is, and could care less.  He is a deliberate, if
>not compulsive, liar who is not even embarassed by obvious
>contradictions in his statements.  He is also a hypocrite who demands
>proof, but never provides any; who asks questions, but never answers
>any; and who resorts to the vilest kind of name calling when his lies
>are exposed.

>Is that too hard for Mr. Giwer to deal with?

>--
>Harry Katz

>Rather be thou the tail among lions than the head among foxes.
>       -- The Wit and Wisdom of the Talmud, Madison C. Peters, ed.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        








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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Communism is Jewish - Read it and weep.
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:32:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qt3vq$qvf@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>(Matt Giwer) said:

>>
>>hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:

>>>In article <4qnjt3$e4h@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
>>>Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) whines:

>>>     Hey, Keren!  Where is your story...

>>>As this repetitious nonsense in no way addresses my previous posts,
>>>I take it that Mr. Giwer cannot defend himself from my charges that
>>>he lies and tries to conceal it with name-calling.

>>      The following is no namecalling.  And, as I noted, when I am attacked I
>>will attack your precious holocaust.  If you have  a problem with that,
>>the answer is in your hands.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>[typical gutless Giwer evasion deleted]


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                               
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yet another Griswold assertion (was: Chuckles' foot-in-mouth)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:36:49 GMT
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jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:

>In article <4qkke5$ni9@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>(Matt Giwer) wrote:

>> jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <4qi0nv$89e@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>> >(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> 
>> >> jeff_brown@pol.com (Jeffrey G. Brown) wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> >> >> >Please present evidence, Griswold, that:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> >  (a) members of the SS contingent at Dachau surrendered and 
>> >> >> >      were subsequently shot after being disarmed, and
>> >> >> >  (b) Mr. Ferree was among those who shot unarmed SS guards at Dachau
>> >> >> 
>> >> >>         He told a great story about it.  Even recounted the shooting. 
>> >> >Of course
>> >> >> he was copying from some professionally written material by the quality
>> >> >> of the prose but without attribution it was in the first person.  
>> >> 
>> >> >If by "he" is meant Mr. Ferree, this is yet another assertion without
>> >evidence. 
>> >> 
>> >>         Try Dejanews if you missed it.  
>> 
>> >Giwer chooses not to present actual references. As has been pointed out in
>> >the past, it is the responsibility of the person making a claim to
>> >document it.
>> 
>>         And since holohuggers have used DejaNews in place of presenting actual
>> references.  Is that not accepted practice here?   When did the rules
>> change?  

>Giwer chooses not to present actual references. He also chooses to blame
>others for his failure to do so.

>As has been pointed out in the past, it is the responsibility of the
>person making a claim to document it.

>JGB

>=====================================================================
>Jeffrey G. Brown                                   jeff_brown@pol.com
> "What's going to happen?"   "Something wonderful..."   -- '2010'
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The obvious question (was: The full story of the reconstruction)
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 02:35:54 GMT
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mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <4q8gdp$bae@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>(Richard Schultz) wrote:

>> Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>> : dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
>> 
>> :: Why does the gas chamber still have cyanide traces on its walls?
>> 
>> : Same reason there are traces on the outside walls.  It was a large scale
>> : delousing facility of the pre-Degesh design.  Things like mattresses
>> : were leaned against the outside wall to complete the airing out.  
>> 
>> If this is the case, then an obvious question suggests itself.  If 
>> Auschwitz was equipped with such extensive delousing facilities and
>> these were used to such a great extent, how is it that the people 
>> running the camp were so spectacularly unsuccessful in preventing 
>> typhus epidemics in the camp?


>I'd still like to hear the Giwer-Troll's source for "it was a large scale
>delousing facility of the pre-Degesh design.  Things like mattresses were
>leaned against the outside wall to complete the airing out."

>Mattreses? According to Otto Freidrich in _The Kingdom of Auschwitz_ the
>prisoners in Auschwitz I "slept in three tiered wooden bunks, half a dozen
>men to a bunk, often with no mattresses or blankets.... The prisoners'
>only consolation was that Birkenau was even worse." 

>And which delousing gas chambers, specifically, were mattresses deloused
>in? Perhaps in Block 3? According to Andreje Rablin (prisoner no. 1410): 

>"...In these rooms ther were wooden frames with hooks on which we hung
>clothes... There were many lice in the clothes. Sometimes, filling the
>chamber with clothes took as much as two days...." (_Technique_, p.25>)

>Nope, not the delousing gas chambers in Block 3.

>How about Block 26? According to Pressac:

>"According to <> conserved at the PMO, volume 100 page 48, a
>clothing delousing installation was installed in two rooms of the ground
>floor of Block 26.... The disinfestation agen tis not known. The plans on
>the inventory drawing suggest a complex installation using steam, the
>situation dating from February 1942 and, it would appear definitive since
>the installation was designed almost a year and a half earlier. It could
>be that initially it functioned in a primative manner as gas chambers
>using Zyklon-B, made gas tight by using strips of paper, and ventilated by
>two air extraction fans." (Ibid. p. 24.)

>Hmm. Not likely, as it was probably a _clothing_ delousing installlation
>that used steam.

>Block 1?  Probably not, as it seems to have been an ad hoc delousing gas
>chamber dating from about mid-August 1942 (during the typhus epidemic),
>for delousing personal effects. (Ibid. p.27.)

>Or the delousing gas chambers in the reception building? Nope. They were
>used for quick delousing of the clothing of prisoners being admitted and
>registered into the camp. (Ibid. p.31.)

>How about the two delousing gas chambers at Kanada I? According to Josef
>Odi, who worked there in the spring of 1944:

>"...There I disinfected the effects of people who had been killed. Furs
>and valuable objects that could not be disinfested by steam were
>disinfested using Zyklon-B, the same method that was used in the gas
>chambers to kill men.... The disinfestation was organized as follws: all
>the furs and valuable objects to be disinfested were hung up.... (Ibid.
>p.41.)

>Nope, the disinfestation of the clothes and valuables of the victims took
>place there. 

>How about the the disinfestation gas chambers of Bauwerken 5a and 5b?
>Again, according to Pressac:

>"...Simplifying the procedure somewhat, the prisoners entered, from left
>to right on the first two drawings [...], through the windbreak entrance
>into the <> room where they undressed [...] and their clothes were
>taken through the <> anteroom and airlock to the gas chamber. After
>the destruction of the lice using hydrocyanic acid, the effects were once
>more available to the prisoners, rid of parasites but still just as
>dirty...." [And still full of typhus-carrying lice feces, btw.] (Ibid.
>p.53.)

>Nope, sounds like 5a and 5b were used to delouse the prisoners' clothes. 

>So what was that about mattresses propped up against the outside walls of
>the delousing gas chambers? Sounds like more silly drivel from the
>Giwer-Troll....

>But wait! on page 54 of _Technique_ there's the testimony of Macha Ravine
>(no. 35,334) regarding a delousing (the first?) of the Blocks in the
>Woman's camp:

>"On the appointed day, at 2 o'clock in the morning there was a general
>turn out. First we had to carry our straw mattresses and blankets to the
>disinfestation.... After soup (it was 5 o'clock in the afternoon) they
>took us back, still naked to our Block. By now we were too tired to feel
>our humiliation so keenly as we had in the morning. The Block, which had
>been disinfested was not yet open and we had to wait outside.... Finally
>the door was opened and we rushed inside and went to our bunks of bare
>boards. The mattresses and blankets were still in the disinfestation
>building.... A few days later the lice reappeared. The first delousing had
>thus resulted in nothing other than hundreds of cases of pneumonia and
>some tuberculosis and we watched our ranks diminish day by day. Still
>another method of extermination. The camp merited its name: <extermination camp.>> (Ibid. p.54.)

>Ah, so mattresses _were_ taken to a disinfestation facility, according to
>the _eyewitness testimony_ of Macha Ravine. Oh, my, such a conundrum this
>must put the Giwer-Troll in!  After all, the Giwer-Troll says eyewtness
>testimony is unreliable and cannot be used as evidence! 

>But given that the Giwer-Troll is a hypocrite, I'm sure he'd insist that
>Ravine's testimony is valid. That mattresses _were_ disinfested. But was
>it done in a gas chamber? Was Zyklon B used to disinfest them? 

>The disinfestation facility in the women's camp used _hot air_ to
>disinfest. As did the one in the Gypsey camp. The disinfestation facility
>in the Zentral Sauna [the "Sauna"] used hot air, steam, and Karbol, Lizol,
>or water containing hydrocyanic acid. (Ibid. pp.58, 63, 65.) 

>Oh well, it looks like the Giwer-Troll was simply spouting drivel after all.... 

>Why am I not suprised?

>Mark

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New whopper of the week: Negroes invented Fire!
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 03:07:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:



>Matt Giwer wrote:
>> 
>> Alexander Baron  wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <31CD1291.270C@rio.com> chuckf@rio.com "Chuck Ferree" writes:
>> 
>> >> Racist too, boy you're some fellow human being.

>The Baron that is! 

>> >>
>> >> Same for you Baron, if you can prove your claim, do so, if not. I win.
>> >> How's the Queen?

>Answer the questions, Baron. Don't start another argument. Just answer 
>the questions.


>clips
>> 
>> >Racist? , Chuck. If you have evidence of a written Negro language, please
>> >adduce it.

>"ADDUCE IT!" Adduce it? what the hell kind of words you gonna use on 
>me? If I don't understand your demands, I'm stuck with what I have and 
>so are you.

>Can you read ZULU? You turkey!
>> 
>> >--
>> >Alexander Baron
>> 
>>         And after he produces that ...  Sorry but the universe will have
>> expereineced heat death by then.

>Well, I certainly hope so.
>Chuck
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Adolf Hitler was the greatest man who ever walked thi
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 00:19:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <4qnbf9$47k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4q41ei$uku@useneta1.news.prodigy.com> <4q4n4j$je2@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com> <4q8sol$196q@usenetz1.news.prodigy.com>  <4qm4bo$47vq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>said:

>>

>>EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) babbles:
>> 
>># Yes, Matt, he's so excited. Probably masterbating in front of # pictures
>>of holocaust victims.
>> 
>>"masterbating"? Is that a new word?

>Any word of more than two syllables is new to this creature, Danny.
>> 
>>Maybe "master baiting"?
>> 
>>Learn English, you deranged Nazi twerp.

>Don't hold your breath.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                              
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Not close inded!  Keren bullshits again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:43:39 GMT

        Hey, Keren!  Where is your story about the Polish "spies" not getting
close this time?  

" The second building [at Treblinka] consists of three chambers and a
boiler-room. The steam
generated in the boilers is led by means of pipes to the chambers. There
are terracota floors in
the chambers which become very slippery when wet ... All victims had to
strip off their clothes and
shoes, which were collected afterwards, whereupon all victims, women and
children first, were
driven into the death chambers. Those too slow or too weak to move
quickly were driven on by
rifle butts, by whipping and kicking...Many slipped and fell, the next
victims pressed forward and
stumbled over them. Small children were simply thrown inside. After
being filled up to capacity the
chambers were hermetically closed and steam was let in. In a few minutes
all was over. "
IMT XXXII - pp. 156-157. 

        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Adolf Hitler was the greatest man who ever walked thi
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 01:07:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 43
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qnbf9$47k@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Exactly what I knew he would say--nothing.  What a pity it must be to be so
>bereft of intelligence, originality, courage.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                 
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NIZKOR AND DENIERS
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:02:46 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r0bgr$2r7@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
>abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele) said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>>>Imagine.  Free access to the source documents, with no bowdlerism and no
>>>>censorship.
>>>
>>>     Who ever gave you the idea there was no censorship?
>>>     There is you know.

>>SchwŠchlich... Frźher hat er sich mehr Mźhe gegeben mit seinen Antworten...

>Ich glaube, dass der arme kleine Maettchen sehr muede ist.  :-)



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                       
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:32:40 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
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Marty Kelley  wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Jun 1996, Keith Morrison wrote:

>> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >         But my choice of what I use as a sig is my business.
>> > 
>> >         And why have you not complained about the use of the Molly Ivans quote
>> > since the beginning of time?  What is the difference?
>> 
>> *Your* business takes up disk space, which makes it everybody's business.
>> Surely an long-time Internet user such as yourself knows that proper
>> netiquette usually deems a 4 to 6 line .sig as the longest you should
>> use.

>I am amused that Mr. Giwer is complaining about my shockingly long (9 
>lines! Egad!) .sig.  I am also amused that he considers early June 
>1996 "the beginning of time."  (Go ahead and check Deja News on this...)  
>I began using this quote around May 30-31, when I was cleaning up my 
>office and found a copy of the column where Ivins made the comment. New 
>.sig coming soon; just need to find a quote I like.

>However, I do realize that a month of reading Mr. Giwer's prose does seem 
>interminable...

>----------------------
>Marty Kelley  (mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU)

>"It would be such a relief to think the people in charge knew 
>what they were doing, even if they were bent on mischief....[but] 
>stupidity is far more important than conspiracy in determining 
>man's fate.  Simple dumbness, along with luck, chance, and 
>accident, runs well ahead of conspiracy in the causation category."  
>                               --Molly Ivins

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 00:12:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31CDE6BE.1C12@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>But if you have to lie, at least make it somewhat believable.  It's
>>getting much too easy to prove you wrong.  Hardly a challenge any more
>>(not that it ever was).

>>How much does anyone want to bet I get either more cryptic phrases or a
>>non-reply with the added spam .sig?

>That is indeed what you will get, since Giwer is reduced to nothing more.

>He has lost and doesn't even understand it, let alone why.

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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time



                    







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:16:59 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo4rn$ob8@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>>
>>Marty Kelley  wrote:


>>>However, I do realize that a month of reading Mr. Giwer's prose does seem 
>>>interminable...

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Another gas chamber
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

>>      Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>>powdered cyanide.  

>>"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>>dummy shower heads. In
>>the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control
>>inflow and outtake of
>>gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>>generate the lethal smoke.
>>From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. " IMT XXX
>>- p.470. 

>>      Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

>>      And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt








>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                              
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Honesty needed
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 21:17:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qpvei$25o@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing, proving my point that I control him, and he has lost.

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>In article <31CDE6BE.1C12@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  said:

>>>>
>>>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>>>But if you have to lie, at least make it somewhat believable.  It's
>>>>getting much too easy to prove you wrong.  Hardly a challenge any more
>>>>(not that it ever was).

>>>>How much does anyone want to bet I get either more cryptic phrases or a
>>>>non-reply with the added spam .sig?

>>>That is indeed what you will get, since Giwer is reduced to nothing more.

>>>He has lost and doesn't even understand it, let alone why.

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                         
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: truer than true testimony
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:15:37 GMT
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yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

>  
>>  >   And who are you agreeing with.  It can't be Keren for he said the 
>>  >opposite.  Is it your friend Jack Daniels?  Or your other friend Jim Beam?
>  
>>      Character assassination is also one of those honest debate techniques
>>  you folks claim to use. 

>       Sorry, Matty-poo, but the imbibing of various alcoholic beverages is not 
>character assassination.  Lying about people -- which you do frequently -- is.  You 
>have no more interest in "honest debating techniques" than my cat does in 
>baroque music.  You are dishonest and your pretense is shabby and transparent.

>       If you can't stand the heat, Matty-poo, stay out the kitchen.

>       --YFE
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Schoedel lies about H*uber
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 06:54:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

>On 21 Jun 1996 05:03:49 GMT, "Ronald C. Schoedel"
> wrote:

>>K*n McOyV*y, in titling this post, is inciting to violence.  This is
>>against our laws here in the USA, K*nny, just in case you didn't know.
>>
>>Is there any special reason you have called for violence against Mr. 
>>Huber, McV*y?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Rev. Ron
>>
>>http://www.alaska.net/~schoedel 
>>
>Mr. McVay has repeatedly asked H*ber, or rather the most
>current knuckle dragger who is at the keyboard, to respond to
>questions concerning past H*ber posts. You on the other hand have
>titled your question to incite hatred against H*ber, thus schoedel
>should be called to task for this despicable act. I would ask the
>queston of schoedel, is there any special reason you are calling for
>violence against H*ber??

>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:02:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qeek5$95i@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>(Ken McVay OBC) said:

>>
>>In article <4qc8n8$1r7@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU>, 
>>rjg@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:

>>>I suggest we start a list of people who will stop responding to Matt
>>>Giwer:

>>Giwer's still here? Still posting? (Gotta love that trn KILL file.)

>Giwer who?



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                            
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT for Jun 14-16: 22.2% / 26.4%
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:27:09 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo33o$76u@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>>
>>gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>>>Giwer who?



>>>--
>>>Gord McFee

>And now Giwer runs away again.
>                                                                                    

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Another gas chamber
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

>>      Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>>powdered cyanide.  

>>"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>>dummy shower heads. In
>>the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control
>>inflow and outtake of
>>gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>>generate the lethal smoke.
>>From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. " IMT XXX
>>- p.470. 

>>      Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

>>      And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                  
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Lets get this straight
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:13:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qe4bk$bnr@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
> said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>>     I reserve the right to respond to any post that in any manner mentions
>>>me in any manner.

>>Or not.  Why haven't you responded to the question I posted some days ago,
>>Mr. Giwer?  I'll repeat it for you here:  By age 35, what degree of
>>closure is there in the lambdoidal, coronal and sagittal sutures of the
>>human cranium, on average?  Which elements of the pelvis fuse, normally,
>>and why what age, on average?

>Giwer has not responed, in spite of his boast that he will respond to any
>ppost that mentions him, because you have caught him in another lie.  His
>desperation is starting to show, as you will have noticed in a recent post
>where he accused Mike Stein of having deleted his calculations on fat
>burning.  This in spite of the fact that no search engine known to man can
>find the alleged post.  Why?  Because it is yet another lie.


>>>     I will continue to do so until this crap stops.

>>This isn't crap, Mr. Giwer.  It is a true truth of science.  Since you
>>claim be a scientific wizard, answering this should be easy for you.  Once
>>you've done that, perhaps we can have a meaningful discussion of the
>>effects of cremation on the human skeleton.  

>Mr. Giwer's only acquaintance with science is watching the occasional TV
>program, assuming he is able to stay awake for the entire show.

>>>     That is not a problem with me in the least.  This can become a spam
>>>conference as I control it (as has been publically acknowledged) or it
>>>will get down to cases on my terms.

>>Here the concern is with bones, not spam.  

>Funny how Mr. Giwer thinks he "controls" the conference with his spamming. 
>As I have said before, Giwer and the other misfits are but pale imitations
>of the first-string deniers that fled the newsgroup sometime ago.  Giwer
>couldn't spam half as well on his best day as the late Dan (vile liar)
>Gannon on his worst.  What a pathetic third-stringer.

>>>     There is nothing in between.

>>Well, that's the issue, isn't it?  What is between those skeletal
>>elements?  When is it replaced by solid bone, if it is at all?  

>>>     I hope you folks come to understand this.

>>Hope you can find the answers.  

>Giwer doesn't find answers.  He runs away.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                  
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Lets get this straight
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:26:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qo3o7$2c8@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:


>>>Giwer doesn't find answers.  He runs away.


>>>--
>>>Gord McFee



>>>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>>>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>And here is the proof that he runs away.  Good little doggie, that Giwer.

>                                                                             

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: Another gas chamber
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

>>      Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
>>powdered cyanide.  

>>"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
>>dummy shower heads. In
>>the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to control
>>inflow and outtake of
>>gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
>>generate the lethal smoke.
>>From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. " IMT XXX
>>- p.470. 

>>      Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

>>      And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster  - Faustian Follies?
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 1996 07:53:08 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <4qo623$pvn@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qivvs$92j@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>[snip]

>>I have learned from hard experience that the Friends of Nizkor comprises
>>more than a few who are not interested either in honest debate or truth
>>per se.  I also know from personal experience that their number includes
>>more than one malicious guttersnipe whose sole purpose is to substitute
>>ridicule, abuse, and lies in place of reasoned debate. Therefore I will
>>not waste my time responding to challenges, or even prose essays such as
>>this, from essentially dishonest conventionalists.

>I am surprised Mr. Ehrlich.  You seem to have very tender sensitivities, and
>perhaps you should stay away from here if that is the case.  If you think
>some the arrows directed your way up to now are bad, you should only pray
>that the besotted Giwer 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  


doesn't decide to turn his tender attentions to you. 
>You appear to me to make a mistake in terminology in the above.  You talk
>about "dishonest conventionalists".  If you have studied history as much as
>you claim, you know that statement is wrong; it is the deniers who are
>dishonest.

>>It is clear that no one seriously communicates with anyone here, but
>>rather, to an anonymous band of lurkers.  My mistake, which I freely
>>admit, was to take the people on this board as earnest and tolerant
>>individuals.  In far too many cases they are not.  Therefore, if I now
>>repost, it is with an awareness that nothing will be achieved by
>>communicating with you.  And I am not reposting for your sake.  I am
>>posting for my friends, who come on _both_ sides of the aisle.  But I
>>doubt if you could ever grasp that.

>Perhaps you should address those remarks to Mr. Giwer, who is now reduced,
>in his pathetic desperation and desolation, to spamming the newsgroup with
>denier reposts that several deniers are feeding him.  The deniers have
>lost--the game is over.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  




>  

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                      







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Return of the Prodigal Poster  - Faustian Follies?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 23:07:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <4r71ht$lgu@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4qqeo4$5j8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4qsqki$98f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4r6hhm$j4c@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-10.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30  6:10:53 PM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qsqki$98f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>>
>>In article <4qqeo4$5j8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>>McFee) writes:

>>>
>>>Really Mr. Ehrlich?  Is the following from Mr. Giwer what this board is
>>>supposed to have on it?
>>>
>>>

>>Gord, the only difference between Hilary and Matt insofar as their
>>demeanor on this board is concerned, is that Hilary has mastered the
>>gentle art of insult, and Matt is much more earthy.  

>Mr. Ehrlich, that is about the most idiotic thing you have said in this
>newsgroup.  To compare Ms. Ostrov to Giwer in the way you have chosen is a
>dense beyond words.  

>But you deflect things again.  My point was about *Giwer*, not about Ms.
>Ostrov.  What is your opinion of Giwer's obscene and sexist and racist
>statements.  Are they just fine by you, but a little "earthy"?  Is that your
>point?

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                               
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dem bones walk again
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 00:50:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <4qq1l8$25o@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4qdi3c$sa3@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <4qg67h$qu9@news.enter.net> <31CD8162.34CA@unb.ca> <4qm8u1$9c6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qpak4$25qg@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qm8u1$9c6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>(Ken McVay OBC) said:


>>      "Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish 
>>      reputation for integrity by saying only Jew and thus 
>>      implying that we is observant?" (Matt Giwer)

>Mr. McVay, I am shocked.  Here you are posting "raw" Giwerian without the
>obligatory translation.  Shame!  Do you really think everyone in this
>newsgroup understands Giwerian-Trollish as well as you do?  Have a heart,
>sir!



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                    
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who controls the troll?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:26:54 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <4r53cn$kl1@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pt5qg$p91@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4qgdge$b62@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4qmc1a$d10@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4qmt2i$q85@atlas.uniserve.com> <4qp7b9$pic@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qpm7u$6v0@atlas.uniserve.com> <4r29tn$3f8o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30 12:29:59 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qpm7u$6v0@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:


>>>Oh for Pete's sake! Finstenov controls the troll this week -
>>>McFeestein can't get his decoder ring working, so he _can't_
>>>control _both_ the troll and Leslie at the same time... I
>>>thought we had this straight, Hilary - this week, Finstenov
>>>gets the troll, next week Stein gets him, and YOU can have him
>>>the following week, and not a moment sooner.

>>Aw, gee, Chief you always spoil all my fun!  And it's really not fair that
>>I _always_ have to change _my_ schedule just because McFeestein can't get
>>his decoder ring working.  He's the one who blows the money you send him
>>for lessons!  Why should I have to pay?!  I think this is a clearcut case
>>of harrassment. Once or twice, I could overlook - but this has been going
>>on for months now.  And I am going to bring this up at the next meeting of
>>ZOGWESCAN.  I've read the Riot Act, and I have rights, too, you know.

>Look, would you two stop this?  If you don't, Giwer is going to find out
>about the conspiracy and get really mad and stamp his feet and hit us with
>an empty rye bottle.

>BTW, the damn ring turns my fingers green.

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                   
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  


s







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who controls the troll?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:27:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <4r53dc$kl1@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pt5qg$p91@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4qgdge$b62@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4qmc1a$d10@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4qmt2i$q85@atlas.uniserve.com> <4qp7b9$pic@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qpm7u$6v0@atlas.uniserve.com> <4r29tn$3f8o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4r2pmh$aih@atlas.uniserve.com>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30 12:30:20 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <4r29tn$3f8o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
>wrote:

>>In article <4qpm7u$6v0@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>>Ostrov) said:


>>>>Oh for Pete's sake! Finstenov controls the troll this week -
>>>>McFeestein can't get his decoder ring working, so he _can't_
>>>>control _both_ the troll and Leslie at the same time... I
>>>>thought we had this straight, Hilary - this week, Finstenov
>>>>gets the troll, next week Stein gets him, and YOU can have him
>>>>the following week, and not a moment sooner.

>>>Aw, gee, Chief you always spoil all my fun!  And it's really not fair that
>>>I _always_ have to change _my_ schedule just because McFeestein can't get
>>>his decoder ring working.  He's the one who blows the money you send him
>>>for lessons!  Why should I have to pay?!  I think this is a clearcut case
>>>of harrassment. Once or twice, I could overlook - but this has been going
>>>on for months now.  And I am going to bring this up at the next meeting of
>>>ZOGWESCAN.  I've read the Riot Act, and I have rights, too, you know.

>>Look, would you two stop this?  If you don't, Giwer is going to find out
>>about the conspiracy and get really mad and stamp his feet and hit us with
>>an empty rye bottle.

>Think so, eh?  Hmmm ... well, I heard he was turning over a new leaf
>and not draining the bottle before aiming at his next target.  But
>I'll keep an eye on him.

>>BTW, the damn ring turns my fingers green.

>Sheesh.  Last month it was blue, this month it's green.  What'll be
>next month McFeestein?  Mauve?

>I suppose we'll have to add this item to the agenda of the next
>meeting 

>Ooops.  What's that you say? We should stop this? OK.

>not posted
>not e-mailed
>not signed


>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who controls the troll?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 06:35:26 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 88
Message-ID: <4r7rpf$1us@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4pt5qg$p91@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4qgdge$b62@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <4qmc1a$d10@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <4qmt2i$q85@atlas.uniserve.com> <4qp7b9$pic@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4qpm7u$6v0@atlas.uniserve.com> <4r29tn$3f8o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <4r2pmh$aih@atlas.uniserve.com> <4r6nmb$19v8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r2pmh$aih@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:

>>
>>In <4r29tn$3f8o@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee)
>>wrote:

>>>>Aw, gee, Chief you always spoil all my fun!  And it's really not fair
>that
>>>>I _always_ have to change _my_ schedule just because McFeestein can't get
>>>>his decoder ring working.  He's the one who blows the money you send him
>>>>for lessons!  Why should I have to pay?!  I think this is a clearcut case
>>>>of harrassment. Once or twice, I could overlook - but this has been going
>>>>on for months now.  And I am going to bring this up at the next meeting
>of
>>>>ZOGWESCAN.  I've read the Riot Act, and I have rights, too, you know.

>>>Look, would you two stop this?  If you don't, Giwer is going to find out
>>>about the conspiracy and get really mad and stamp his feet and hit us with
>>>an empty rye bottle.

>>Think so, eh?  Hmmm ... well, I heard he was turning over a new leaf and
>>not draining the bottle before aiming at his next target.  But I'll keep
>>an eye on him.

>No...no... he's smoking the leaf.

>>>BTW, the damn ring turns my fingers green.

>>Sheesh.  Last month it was blue, this month it's green.  What'll be next
>>month McFeestein?  Mauve?

>Hey, that's a good color.

>>I suppose we'll have to add this item to the agenda of the next meeting
>>

>What next meeting?

>>Ooops.  What's that you say? We should stop this? OK.

>OK.

>>not posted
>>not e-mailed
>>not signed

>Not read
>Not written
>Not.........



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                         
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Denier's True Colours
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 07:45:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 215
Message-ID: <4qtecs$qvf@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4qn1kv$r2e@Vir.com> <31cf6fd1.51057272@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <4qt0o5$3njc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31cf6fd1.51057272@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) said:

>[on Gutless Giwer]

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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time


>>What do you make of Mr. Giwer's posts? I see him living up to his word to
>>flood the newsgroup with posts to make it unreadable and unusable until
>>such time as we "get down to cases on his terms." I see you and the other
>>repsondents to this thread saying that's alright, Mr. Giwer has the right
>>to make the newsgroup unreadable until we post according to his terms. I
>>see the respondants to this thread saying that this is a "Revisionist"
>>newsgroup, and I take from this argument that the terms necessary for a
>>readable newsgroup are that Revisionists be allowed to post unopposed.

>He will fail in that respect, even if he and I are the only two readers
>left.  Not only am I mountains more intelligent than he, even with my 12.9
>IQ, not only am I younger and therefore will outlive him (he thinks I'm 25),
>but I am able to do this *and* maintain a career at the same time.

>Not only that, he is not even a good spammer.  He even screwed *that* up. 
>(But I ain't saying how--we'll see if he figures it out.)


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                    
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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dem trolls talk again
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 09:02:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 26  4:04:41 AM CDT 1996
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <4qpak4$25qg@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net wrote:

>>In article <4qm8u1$9c6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
>>(Ken McVay OBC) said:

>>>      "Are you saying that I should have insulting the Jewish 
>>>      reputation for integrity by saying only Jew and thus 
>>>      implying that we is observant?" (Matt Giwer)

>>Mr. McVay, I am shocked.  Here you are posting "raw" Giwerian without the
>>obligatory translation.  Shame!  Do you really think everyone in this
>>newsgroup understands Giwerian-Trollish as well as you do?  Have a heart,
>>sir!

>Alas, good sir, this particular sample has never been
>satisfactorily translated. It appears to be a unique blend of
>Full Hootch and Moranic, and is quite beyond the capability of
>current Giwerundean linguists.

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | Shofar FTP Archives
>-----------------------| WEST: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>An Electronic Holocaust| EAST: ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/
>Education Resource     | EUROPE: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Six Questions for Bobby Huber  & Anna Manicka (Round 5)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:37:16 GMT
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pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

>On 26 Jun 1996 09:10:33 GMT, EEGG87A@prodigy.com (A Huber) wrote:

>>>
>>>Note that the Huber Babies make no attempt whatsoever to respond to 
>>>the questions presented.  Big surprise.  
>>>
>>>Bill
>>
>>
>>The questions were responded to MONTHS ago. Repetition is McOyvey's 
>>method of 'proving' his lies.  When will YOU reach puberty, or does his 
>>ritual escape you??
>>
>No, wrong again, h*ber pod, the pod has never to date responded with
>answers to each of Mr. Mcvay's questions. I understand that pod's
>never reach puberty but stay in some kind of  semi delusional
>online-village idiot state.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In
the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes. Push buttons to
control inflow and outtake of
gas. A hand-valve to regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to
generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory. "
IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Matt Giwer fan club?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:04:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Gord McFee wrote:
>> 
>> In article <31D46E08.60F6@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  said:
>> 
>> >
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> >Didn't you have to do it when you took your BS?
>> 
>> I don't remember Giwer ever posting where he got his B.Sc, do you?

>I believe he did.  Just let me call up DejaNews and...ah yes,

>http://xp4.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=6032925&server=dnserver.dbapr&CONTEXT=836170572.10538&hitnum=0

>University of Cincinnati, 1967 or so he claims.  The article
>does give rather specific information so I suppose that one
>could call up UCinn's alumni office or the US Navy and
>verify his work.

>Not that I think it matters because I have no particular reason
>to disbelief him on those statements.  After all, Giwer is
>merely trolling for attention, no?

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca

>I am Giwer of Borg.  Sources are irrelevant.  Prepare
>to be a-spam-inated.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Matt Giwer fan club?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:04:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <31D46E08.60F6@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:


>>Didn't you have to do it when you took your BS?

>I don't remember Giwer ever posting where he got his B.Sc, do you?


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                            
 ========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At last it can be told
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:51:43 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree writes: (Chuck was born Hillary J. Nussbaum) but changed 
>the name same time changed sex. Always wanted to be a man!!! A good 
>man at that!


>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>>         Mel Brooks was born Kevin O'Keefe but changed his name for professional
>> reasons.

>Matt Giwer was born Alfred T. Jolson, a Cantor in Yiddish, but soon 
>discovered his father was from Poland, a pig farmer, so changed his 
>name for non-professional reasons. Really wants to change back, but 
>can't afford the big bucks
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: At last it can be told
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:55:19 GMT
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:
>Tommy, Baby, you possess an underdeveloped sense of humor, among other 
>short comings in your possession. My dealings with Giwer are my 
>dealings with Giwer. Maybe we have fun, maybe you just don't get it, 
>but whatever!
>My dealings with you are different. I think Giwer is a clown, nuts, 
>fruitcake. It's his hobby. Maybe the guy isn't a bigot, maybe he is, I 
>don't care, but he goes off in all directions, and what I do is play 
>with him, like a pet snake. So if it's foolish, it's foolish. I jumped 
>Giwer's ass about garbage he posted on a fine woman. He got real 
>nasty, I got real nasty. That's my way of kicking Giwers ass. He (I do 
>believe) understands the game, because lately, all he dishes out to me 
>are cheap shot one liners, which tells me, he's stuck. 
>You on the other hand, come across as a serious antisemitic, racist, 
>hateful son of a bitch. I can laugh at Giwer's stupid babbling, you 
>don't bring out any of my good humor. So when I try to bash you, Tommy 
>Baby, I mean it. You suck!

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  




>tom moran wrote:
>> 
>> Chuck Ferree  wrote:
>> 
>> >Chuck Ferree writes: (Chuck was born Hillary J. Nussbaum) but changed
>> >the name same time changed sex. Always wanted to be a man!!! A good
>> >man at that!
>> >
>> >
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> >>
>> >>         Mel Brooks was born Kevin O'Keefe but changed his name for professional
>> >> reasons.
>> >
>> >Matt Giwer was born Alfred T. Jolson, a Cantor in Yiddish, but soon
>> >discovered his father was from Poland, a pig farmer, so changed his
>> >name for non-professional reasons. Really wants to change back, but
>> >can't afford the big bucks
>> 
>> Now I can't figure out why they call you "Chuckles".

>Mr. Giwer first called me "Chuckles" while putting me down, so he 
>thought at the time, for being a fighter pilot who liberated Nazi 
>camps after strafing them. So if that Chuckles business bothers you, 
>take it up with Giwer. It doesn't bother me at all.

>> Did you collaborate with Jamie to come up with this?

>No I didn't, but if Jamie wanted to collaborate with me on anything, 
>all he needs to do is ask. I respect Jamie as a fine person, who knows 
>more about what he's talking about than most anybody posting. 


>> How old are you?

>Think about it, Tommy, what difference does that make. 

>> I mean your physical chronological age.

>I know what you mean, and if you can't compute that one, better stay 
>away from numbers all together. If the question had any relevance at 
>all, I'd answer truthfully.

>> I already have an idea of how mature your 'mind' is.

>Sure you do!   :-)







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:30:09 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qgclr$h0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>Nothing, of course.  The great lover of science is too craven to be part of
>this important research project.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 






>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 00:35:27 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree wrote:

>That sloppy, smelly, nasty man, Gywer, better quit calling me a fat 
>broad. I resent the use of such semi-accuarate hyperbole. My weight 
>problem is due to a genetic defect passed down from some Cherman guy 
>from the dark ages. That's not my main complaint tho, I happen to be a 
>feminist, but not femme fatale. Gitchur genders straight, Gieywer, and 
>don't call me no fat broad no more. Nor any other beautiful person.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 





>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <4qgclr$h0@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:
>> 
>> >Nothing, of course.  The great lover of science is too craven to be part of
>> >this important research project.

>No, just a typical cowardly trick.
>Chuck
>> 
>> 
>> >Gord McFee
>> 
>> >.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>> >-- MR/2 2.26 #331
>> 
>> >







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who's Fat and Who ain't
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:45:14 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r0lb7$6hn@informer1.cis.McMaster.CA>, Laura Finsten
> said:

>>>I knew I would have fun with this.  

>>Maybe they think these sorts of personal attributes are irrelevant?

>>>I wonder why no "revisionists" are answering this?  I would think that
>with
>>>their superior analytical powers, and love of historical accuracy, they
>>>would want to join the research project.

>>I wanted to give you the information necessary to complete my form: hat
>>size: 6.75.  (you didn't say whether this would be an acceptable
>>substitute for IQ, but J.P. Rushton seems to think that it is, so I sure
>>hope you aren't going to quibble).

>>What's the grand prize, anyway, Gord?                                                             


>A rather thin tome entitled _The Wit and Witticism of Matthias Gottfried
>Giwer and Saint Thomas Moronicus_.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                       
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the Color is: Mauve! ... _Mauve?_
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 21:10:28 GMT
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>>========
>>Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>Subject: When I said it
>>From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT
>> 
>>      When I said it, I was told by the legal experts her that I was
wrong.  
>> 
>>"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
>>finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were
tried
>>had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
>>our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
>>international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
>>post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
>>guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."
>> 
>>--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
>>Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 

>    I have Giwer killfiled these days so I only see the few posts that
slip
>    through for various reasons (I took killfile lessons from Yale :>
). 
>    What's up with this tactic?  Has he realized that he can't defend
his
>    ridiculous trolls so he has taken to spamming others people's work
that
>    many of us have previously stated we agree with?  Pretty lame.

>    If he ever does something which merits me unkillfiling him, someone
let
>    me know please.

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was
wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the Color is: Mauve! ... _Mauve?_
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:59:35 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <28JUN199620571192@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>,
>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) said:

>[Giwer spam deleted]

>>    I have Giwer killfiled these days so I only see the few posts that
>>slip
>>    through for various reasons (I took killfile lessons from Yale :>
). 
>>    What's up with this tactic?  Has he realized that he can't defend
his
>>    ridiculous trolls so he has taken to spamming others people's work
>>that
>>    many of us have previously stated we agree with?  Pretty lame.

>>    If he ever does something which merits me unkillfiling him,
someone
>>let
>>    me know please.

>I can't believe it will ever happen, but if it does, I will be the
first to
>let you know.

>What has happened, Danny, is that Giwer's lies and distortions have
become
>so patently obvious that he is close to flipping his cork.  He is now
>reduced to copying the actions of others, and posting as he has been
>conditioned to do (although he is too stupid to have noticed).  Thus,
his
>latest tactic--of simply ignoring posts he can't rebut (which is most
of
>them)--is to simply quote it and attach the spam-text.  He was of
course
>sucked into doing that, and is now desperately seeking a way to
extricate
>himself.  The only problem is that to do so, he would have to admit
that he
>was sucked in, so he doesn't dare.

>A rather pathetic, facile old troll, but you knew that.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>          
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burg
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 01:14:25 GMT
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes:

># This is an excellent post and you raise an excellent question.
># The fact of the matter is that the defendants generally believed
># the stories. (Ref. GM Gilbert, *Nuremberg Diary*)

>That's a rather lame argument. Let's look at the many trials held,
>in various countries, for the SS-men who ran the death camps, who
>were there, who operated the gassing installations with their very
>own hands. Note *one* of them, as far as I know, denied what
>happened at the camps. You cannot say "they believed what they
>were told", because they were there and saw it.

>And many of these trials took place in Germany, under the German
>Legal System. No "revisionist" claims the SS-men were tortured. One
>should only look at their arrogant behavior in the courtroom.

>As the first poster noted, if the stories about a certain camp
>or camps were not true, it is simply impossible to explain why
>these SS-men didn't just say so. If so many people were accused
>of a crime they were not guilty of, would not *one* of them deny
>the accusations!? 


>-Danny Keren.

>-- 
>In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
>suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
>in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
>to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burg
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 06:13:55 GMT
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jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:18:04 GMT, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>[a few inaccurate paragraphs of his own, e.g., that the defendants had
>not access to the evidence against them]

>The bulk of Mr. Giwer's post was not written or researched by him. It
>is simply a cut-and-paste from either the CODOH or IHR web sites.

>Mr. Giwer has no way of knowing whether his post is accurate, and he
>will not be able to defend most of the claims in his post if
>challenged.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was
wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: John F. Kennedy, neo-Nazi ?
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 21:57:32 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <31d2a3b6.738356@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>> 
>>      Since there is enough and plenty of record to show that Jews
>>would have the world think Holocaust deniers are "neo-Nazis" it would
>>follow that if John F.Kennedy had written his objections about the
>>propriety of the Nuremberg trials this could put him in ranks of the
>>neo-Nazi.

>    1. Who has said that ALL Holocaust deniers are neo-Nazis?  I know that
>    I have posted the opposite.  In fact I said that you and Giwer were
>    examples of Holocaust dinier lunatics rather than neo-Nazis.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  

>    2. Why is questioning the propriety of the Nuremberg trials the same
>    thing as denying the Holocaust?

>    So you have two linkages to demonstrate to make your post anyting more
>    than gibberish.  (i.e. lunatic gibberish)







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Thanks for the suggestion
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 03:48:11 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>Someone posted:

>>ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:

>>>In article <4qqeo4$5j8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>>>McFee) writes:

>>>>
>>>>Really Mr. Ehrlich?  Is the following from Mr. Giwer what this board is
>>>>supposed to have on it?
>>>>
>>>>

>>>Gord, the only difference between Hilary and Matt insofar as their
>>>demeanor on this board is concerned, is that Hilary has mastered the
>>>gentle art of insult, and Matt is much more earthy.  

>>      Why be clever when you can be right?  

>Excellent point.  But now that Messrs. E. and G. have proven how right
>I am,  perhaps I shall try my hand at being clever.   I quite enjoy
>being proven right.  Perhaps I shall enjoy being clever, too.

>hro

>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A discrepency among exterminationists...
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:44:37 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
>said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:

>>[To Jamie McCarthy]

>># Jamie boy, the lies of you holohuggers and this lie in particular # have
>>been pointed out many times as has been your harrassment of # my family.

>>Er, ah, nazi-boy, can you supply some proof of this alleged
>>harrassment?

>Of course not, since he simply made it up.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwerdly Lyin'
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:34:33 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4qp5n9$ebv@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
>(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>> In article <4qkkk0$ni9@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>,
>>   wrote:


>> >       In my experience the constant claims of debate ring very hollow.  
>> 
>>     Of course you dishonestly insinuate all are complicit in the actions
>> of one or two.  Who besides Marduk emailed your son?  By your standard you
>> are complicit in the mailbombing directed against Ken McVay before you
>> ever appeared here.  It was someone who agreed with you, ergo by your
>> standards I am entitled to call that the "revisionist" method of debate,
>> not just the methods of the one perpetrator. 
>> 
>>     I am prepared to debate you.  But you would have to start providing
>> evidence and meeting the burden of proof for your claims.  You seem to
>> have some trouble with that.  Would you care to finally produce your
>> calculations for the number of calories needed to deal with the water in a
>> corpse for cremation?  Or show how you arrived at the 30,000 kcal figure
>> you gave without any mention of the assumptions or formula used?
>> 
>Mike:
> 
>I'll moderate that debate.
> 
>Of course, the Giwerdly Lyin' 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  

will never agree to do so. He'ss say "I
>wanna debate!!" until you call him on it, then he'll tell you YOUR offer
>"rings hollow."
> 
>Ahh... if he only had a brain. A heart. A home. The nerve.
> 
>Sara

>-- 
>The only power available to you lies in your submission.
>    Pete Townshend







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Monty Python strikes again
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 22:35:12 GMT
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <31C88353.27E4@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

>Wouldnm't it scan better as "I'm a Giwer troll and I'm a jerk..."
> 
>Otherwise, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!!!! A real keeper!
> 
>Hugs,
>Sara

>-- 
>The only power available to you lies in your submission.
>    Pete Townshend
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Monty Python strikes again
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 01:51:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 54
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <31C88353.27E4@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:
>> 
>> >Wouldnm't it scan better as "I'm a Giwer troll and I'm a jerk..."
>> >
>> >Otherwise, ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!!!!!!! A real keeper!
>> >
>> >Hugs,
>> >Sara
>> 
>> >--
>> >The only power available to you lies in your submission.
>> >    Pete Townshend
>> ========
>> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>> Subject: When I said it

>blah blah blah

>Now now, Matt.  No need to be jealous.

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: *Ordinary Canadians*
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:07:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <4r5c5v$1v@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes...
>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <4r461o$61f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) writes...
>>>>In article <4qvn12$2a1e@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
>>>>McFee) writes:
>>>> 
>>>>>And I will add, for the 5th time, and I will note that Giwer has *never*
>>>>>denied it, even back where he had the courage to respond to my posts
>>>>other
>>>>>than by stupid sigs, that the so-called harassment of Giwer's family and
>>>>>son, was a concoction on *his* part.  In other words, he lied through his
>>>>>teeth.  (Oh yes--I still have the proof.)
>>>> 
>>>>Sorry to disappoint you Gord, but I have received e-mails from individuals
>>>>other than Giwer confirming that his son was harrassed by Marduk.  Since I
>>>>keep the source and verbatim content of e-mails private, I cannot say
>>>>more.
>> 
>>>    1. Did we ever figure out who Marduk is?
>> 
>>      You in particular encouraged the holohugging pig.  

>    Provide the post, please.

>>>    2. Did you notice that it was *one* letter than Giwer Jr. received
>>>    (assuming it was not forged in house as has been suggested but no
>>>    evidence has been presented for) and that every poster in this
>>>    newsgroup sans Giwer who commented on the mailing immediately denounced
>>>    it.
>> 
>>      Who said "ONE" and how did you know that?  I never posted that.  It is
>>very curious that you would claim knowledge of details that I did not
>>post.  May I ask how you know these details?  

>    OK, I admit it.  I'm Gord McFee...

>>      Of course I can not ask that question.  It is improper or some such.  
>> 
>>>    So, if you consider one letter to Giwer Jr. to be harassment, 
>> 
>>      Just how did you know there was only one without being a participant in
>>it?  What is your point in making this all up?  BTW:  As we all know he
>>is not a Jr.  So why do you make this up?

>    Matt Giwer the father
>    Matt Giwer the son

>    It is a reasonable shorthand to call him Junior.  I have no idea what
>    either's middle names are (nor do I really care.)  

>>then
>>>    maybe he was harassed.  If you agree with Giwer's assertion that that
>>>    letter stains all of the "holohuggers" in this newsgroup then you would
>>>    be as looney as he is.
>> 
>>      Someone just might be suspicious with your knowledge of what was never
>>posted but then that would be antisemitic or some such, would it not?  

>    Evidence that "he" is looney.  So Ehrlich, what do you think?

>>>    I suspect that you are not looney and are open to reason.
>> 
>>      I know your intimate knowledge of the exact events makes you complicite
>>in it.  

>    Giwer went this route with McFee once.  All it did was make Giwer look
>    stupid.  One has to wonder why he is going this route again...

>    /re-enter killfile mode  {sheesh}

>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: *Ordinary Canadians*
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 22:31:58 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qsq14$8m3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
>(Ehrlich606) said:

>>
>>In article <31d0ab6c.11914697@news.eden.com>, mcurtis@eden.com (Mike
>>Curtis) writes:

>>>>family harrassed through this board.  It is a disgrace.
>>>
>>>There is NO ONE I'm aware of who has harrassed your family on this
>>>board. Oh! You learned this game from Giwer, eh, Ehrlich606?
>>>
>>>

>>Giwer's family _was_ harrassed.

>Indeed.  By Giwer himself.

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                          
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: *Ordinary Canadians*
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 03:59:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r1hpq$bq8@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken)
>said:


>>      Not true.  One person not connected to this board evidently sent a
>>single e-mail to his son.  BFD.


>>      On the other hand, Giwer has harrassed at least two ISPs of people with
>>whom he disagrees.

>>      In other words Giwer is lying as a smokescreen.

>You mean, as a way of life, don't you, Yale?


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>            
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: *Ordinary Canadians*
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 07:20:13 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <30JUN199607365001@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>,
>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>[text deleted for brevity]
> 
>>>     Someone just might be suspicious with your knowledge of what was never
>>>posted but then that would be antisemitic or some such, would it not?  

>>    Evidence that "he" is looney.  So Ehrlich, what do you think?

>I wonder if this will be another question that causes the "honest"
>honourable gentleman to break into yet another round of what seems to
>be one of his favourite songs:  "Hello darkness, my old friend ....../
>... the sound of silence" 

>>>>    I suspect that you are not looney and are open to reason.
>>> 
>>>     I know your intimate knowledge of the exact events makes you complicite
>>>in it.  

>>    Giwer went this route with McFee once.  All it did was make Giwer look
>>    stupid.  One has to wonder why he is going this route again...

>I rather think the answer is quite simple, Mr. Mittleman.  Giwer seems
>to excel at perpetual recycling  - of himself, his modes and his lies.
>The very best efforts of cobblers and ghost-writers cannot succeed in
>helping him overcome this handicap.  Perhaps they'll eventually
>realize that, as we have known for quite some time:  You can dress a
>troll up, but you just can't take him anywhere.

>>    /re-enter killfile mode  {sheesh}

>Yes, I _do_ understand:>)

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 07:23:40 GMT
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hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>In <31d6894c.4496929@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran aka the denier in search of a persona) wrote:

>>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
>>>
>>>    I am not an expert on Kahane, but I am under the impression that most
>>>    of the Jewish community distanced themselves from him and that in the
>>>    end his political party was declared illegal in Israel?  Am I correct
>>>    in my recollections?  Isn't this - or actions like this - very
>>>    different than Giwer's suggestion that Kahane was defended or supported
>>>    by the Jewish community?
>>>
>>>    And, Tommy, isn't the fact that there was a split over Kahane's views
>>>    evidence that the Jewish community is not monolithic?

>>      I have seen very little condemnation of the JDL. In fact I can
>>only remember one from about 10 years ago.
>>      And Mr.Mittleman, one example, if it was true, would not be
>>evidence to support any "Jews are divided" (common vernacular) theme.
>>      For every example you could present, there would be hundreds to
>>show otherwise.
>>      The Jew says one thing, but does the other, more so than anyone I
>>have seen. They do more talking and advertising their divisions and
>>benevolence than the reality shows.

>And to think that L'il Tommy has the chutzpah to turn around and ask
>for "proof" that he is a hate-filled and fact-bereft anti-Semitic
>twit.

>Amazing!  Simply amazing!

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.almanac.bc.ca/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Do you know how stupid holohuggers are?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 05:54:29 GMT
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r1c3k$h2q@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>>
>>      How stupid?

>>      The Marduk, holohugging would-be telephone harrasser, has not stopped
>>making his pig noises during this holohugger's harassing phone calls. The
>>latest was last night at 8:31 EDT. 

>Poor wittle Mattie, calling himself again. 

>>      That's not the really stupid part.  The really stupid part is that this
>>holohugger is harrassing the GTE Personal Secretary answering service.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brit rabbi admits 6,000,000 is fraud
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 1996 20:06:23 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Keith Morrison  wrote:

>william c anderson wrote:
>> 
>> A Huber (EEGG87A@prodigy.com) wrote:
>> :
>> : >"The invention of magnetic recording tape is variously attributed to
>> : >J.A. O'Neill, who is said to have created a paper version in 1927 in
>> : >the United States, and the German engineer Fritz Pfleumer, who in 1928
>> : >developed a tape made by bonding a thin coating of oxide to strips of
>> : >either paper or film.  It was Pfleumer who filed the first audiotape
>> : >patent in 1929...
>> :
>> :
>> : In those days there was a significant time lag between 'invention' and
>> : public familiarity.
>> 
>> Yes, indeed.  However, we weren't talking about public familiarity--
>> we were talking about invention.  You claimed that magnetic tape wasn't
>> invented until the 50's, presumably as a ploy to discredit certain tapes
>> which have been presented to counter revisionist nonsense.  That was either
>> a lie or an indication of ignorance; magnetic tape was invented in the early
>> 30s and was widely used for propaganda purposes by the Nazi government.
>> You're caught, Huber.  Give it up.

>And it's not even an original lie.  The Troll went over this ground
>a few months ago.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Brit rabbi admits 6,000,000 is fraud
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 07:31:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 56
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NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl3-09.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30  2:34:19 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

Keith Morrison  wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>> >> Yes, indeed.  However, we weren't talking about public familiarity--
>> >> we were talking about invention.  You claimed that magnetic tape wasn't
>> >> invented until the 50's, presumably as a ploy to discredit certain tapes
>> >> which have been presented to counter revisionist nonsense.  That was either
>> >> a lie or an indication of ignorance; magnetic tape was invented in the early
>> >> 30s and was widely used for propaganda purposes by the Nazi government.
>> >> You're caught, Huber.  Give it up.
>> 
>> >And it's not even an original lie.  The Troll went over this ground
>> >a few months ago.
>> 
>> ========
>> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>> Subject: When I said it
>> From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)

>[snip]

>Oh, wonderful rebuttal.    God, I just feel so
>terrible how you stood up, stated the facts and proved me wrong
>for calling you a liar.

>

>--
>Keith Morrison
>t08o@unb.ca
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What end serve Mr. Giwer's spams?
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 05:54:16 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r0d05$2r7@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
>abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele) said:

>>
>>Over the last two weeks Mr. Giwer has more often than not replied posts
>>with quotations completely irrelevant to what has been said. I do not trie
>>to forbid him doing so, but I ask what his aim is. I have come to the
>>point that I do not open any posts by Mr. Giwer, because I am almost sure
>>that it is again one of these spams. Before Mr. Giwer has started doing
>>so, I was quite interested in his contributions. But now... I wonder
>>whether other people have come too to this. Does Mr. Giwer try to make
>>everybody ignore him?

>No, Mr. Giwer tries to make people *respond* to him.  Every time someone
>does, he wins.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                          
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: One man's opinion
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:13:10 GMT

"The Nuremberg Trials ... had been popular throughout the world and
particularly in the United States. Equally popular was the sentence
already announced by the high tribunal: death. But what kind of trial
was this? ...The Constitution was not a collection of loosely given
political promises subject to broad interpretation. It was not a list of
pleasing platitudes to be set lightly aside when expediency required it.
It was the foundation of the American system of law and justice and
[Robert Taft] was repelled by the picture of his country discarding
those Constitutional precepts in order to punish a vanquished enemy." 

-- U.S. President, John F. Kennedy 
John Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (New York: Harper and Row, 1964),
p.189-190. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: hope we all notice
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:18:35 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 52
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qlkul$e8c@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>>
>>      
>>      The folks complaining about appropriate posts and spamming and the like
>>are engaging in a debate on operating systems right here and completely
>>off topic. 

>>      But then, the holohuggers never manage to notice their own failings.

>It is very diffocult for normal people to notice their mistakes when they
>are assaulted on a daily basis by hundreds of Giwer mistakes.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                          







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer finally realized this?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:18:21 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30 12:21:26 AM CDT 1996
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4qmemf$9sd@access1.digex.net>, mstein@access1.digex.net (Michael
>P. Stein) said:

>>
>>In article <4qkcj2$7qn@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>,  
>>>
>>>     It was quite enough to crack this conference wide open.  
>>>
>>>     Or have you not noticed all the new and old names that are back?  

>>    Well, Roberts came and went for a while and then came again before you
>>arrived.  Baron comes and goes according to his legal schedule.  (And both
>>of them are at the mercy of their ISP.)

>>    As for the rest, they were too stupid to figure out they could post
>>anytime they pleased?  They needed a 163 IQ genius to show them how to
>>post articles?

>>    Why, one would almost think that you are implying you have entered
>>into some sort of conspiracy with them.  You know, how to deal with the
>>Nizkorites.

>It is hard to believe that anyone would enter into a conspiracy with someone
>as loathsome as Giwer.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.26 #331

>                                                                                                                        







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: Does a stuck pig squealing remind you of this?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:33:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 69
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References: <4qfkv2$hgl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> 
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Xref: news.voyager.net alt.revisionism:52105 news.admin.net-abuse.misc:56950

schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4qfkv2$hgl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>         He were have the Gang of Six complaining about exactly what they have
>> been doing for years, monopolizing the conference and preventing any
>> discussion of revisionism.  
> 
>Ken... can you translate "He were have..."? I'm afraid I'm not as fluent
>in Giwerese.
>> 
>>         Not only as individuals but by email conspiracy as to how to deal with
>> people who won't believe what the Gang insists they must believe.  
> 
>Again, I need some parsing help here.
>> 
>>         Their entire intention to silence those who will not believe as they
>> believe.  And they have been doing it for years, driving people out of
>> the NG.
>> 

>Of course, I have no idea what the "Gang of Six" is.

>[snip]

>>         It is of interest how many people I have found who will attest to this
>> gang behavior.  
>> 

>Hmm... I'd love to see the list of names here.


>>         They have lost in a fair fight of about 10 to 1.  And now they just
>> can't deal with it. 
>> 
>>         It is curious what they think an alt conference is all about.  
>Well, I think it's about open discussion and exchange of idas. Not ad
>hominem attacks and name-calling. That would exclude you right off the
>bat, Mr. Giwer.
> 
>Sara

>-- 
>And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: Does a stuck pig squealing remind you of this?
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:34:14 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 104
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article , 
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>>In article <4qfkv2$hgl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, Giwer wrote:

>      "He were have the Gang of Six complaining about exactly 
>      what they have been doing for years, monopolizing the 
>      conference and preventing any discussion of revisionism."
> 
>> Ken... can you translate "He were have..."? I'm afraid I'm 
>> not as fluent in Giwerese.

>Hmmm. Perhaps. First, of course, we must examine the
>presumptions. The first is that there is a "Gang of Six."

>The "Gang of Six" appears to have its roots in the number of
>people who have contributed to the Nizkor web. The problem, of
>course, is that there are _eight_ contributors listed, not
>six. This anomaly makes it difficult to know, with any degree
>of certainty, what is actually being said.

>What we _do_ know with certainty is that the Gang of Six is in
>fact the Gang of Eight. This implies that the speaker is
>experiencing a Full Hootch episode, which, as we have seen in
>the past, requires more critical examination.

>The first part of the phrase, given the error, must be
>translated as follows:
> 
>      "He were have the Gang of Six complaining about exactly 

>"He were have my speaking of things about which I know not."

>(What? You still don't understand? Wait! It's coming...)

>"He were have" is Full Hootch for "Here we have." That much is
>known by Giwerundian Scholars. Therefore the initial statement
>must become "Here we have a man who does not speak from
>knowledge." So far, so good. That yields the following:

>      "Here we have a man who does not speak from knowledge, 
>      complaining about exactly what they have been doing for 
>      years, monopolizing the conference and preventing any 
>      discussion of revisionism."

>We must now correct the adjective, which is perhaps, along with the
>obvious lack of knowledge and general Full Hootch dementia,
>the real key to understanding this sample.

>      "Here we have a man who does not speak from knowledge, 
>      complaining about exactly what he has been doing for 
>      years, monopolizing the conference and preventing any 
>      discussion of revisionism."

>Quite simple, really; it's part of a Giwerundian Self-Examination
>Mantra. The speaker may have recently attended a Giwerundian
>Encounter Session, and the phrase may have stuck in his
>consciousness (in the G. sense) as being particularly
>helpful.

>>Of course, I have no idea what the "Gang of Six" is.

>An invention. At the time your sample initiated the phrase,
>there were Seven in the Gang of Eight, not Six.

>>Hmm... I'd love to see the list of names here.

>You will find the list of all those who were denied the right
>to speak here in the archives, where their, er, speaking, is
>recorded for posterity. These non-speaking speakers are part
>of the Gang of 4,000.

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | Shofar FTP Archives
>-----------------------| WEST: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>An Electronic Holocaust| EAST: ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/
>Education Network      | EUROPE: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holohugger needed
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 05:50:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <4r54o5$kl1@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
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schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

>In article <4qao4q$i6d@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>> hkatz@earth.usa.net (Harry Katz) wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <4q44r4$6g5@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>,
>> >mgiwer@ix.netcom.com whines:
>> 
>> >       Holohuggers have different ideas of what constitutes their
>> >       holocausts.  But they are more than willing to start in with the
>> >       name calling even only things they have flatly wrong.   
>> 
>> >As if "holohugger" is not a prime example of name calling!  As if Mr.
>> >Giwer has ever disproved a single facet of Holocaust history!
>> 
>>         If you have a better one word name, I will consider using it.  Absent
>> that, I will continue.  
> 
>How about "educated"?
>"Logical"?
>"Truth-seekers"?
>"People"?
> 
>Sara

>-- 
>You can't stand still on freedom's track,
>if you don't go forward, you go back.
>You can't "Giddy-up" by saying "Whoa"
>and sitting on your status quo.
>        Pins & Needles
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Program
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 1996 08:21:04 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <4r5dja$1v@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jun 30  3:24:10 AM CDT 1996
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dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

>In article <4r43q6$iqp@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) writes...
>> 
>>McFee = McVay
>>McVay = Finstein
>>Green != Graves
>>Ehrlich != Sommer
>>Ehrlich != Thomas
>>Thomas = Hunt
>>Hunt = Agathist
>>Hunt ?= Smith
>>Ostrov = McCarthy
>>Gannon = Maynard
>>Les's RH = Sylvie
>>Widmann = ?
>>Huber != Huber
>>Morrison = Morriglu_the_Crook_smoking marijuana in Microsoft Basement
>>Morrison != Morris
>>Lewis != McVay
>>Curtis != Stein
>>WASPnot = HistoryNOT
>>WASPnot = Kaus
>>Kaus = WACKYWATCH
>>Greenley != Green

>    You missed a few:

>    McFee ?= Marduk
>    Kelley != Mittleman
>    Kelley != Kelly
>    Moran = Moron
>    Huber = Huber = Huber = Huber = Huber
>    Mortie = Miltie
>    J. McCarthy != T. McCarthy
>    Giwer != genius
>    Al Gentile != fictional
>                         daniel david mittleman 
>===========================================================================
>                     Quoth the H*ber: "Never! More!"
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: When I said it
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:16:53 GMT

        When I said it, I was told by the legal experts here that I was wrong.  

"No matter how many books are written or briefs filed, no matter how
finely the lawyers analyzed it, the crime for which the Nazis were tried
had never been formalized as a crime with the definiteness required by
our legal standards, nor outlawed with a death penalty by the
international community. By our standards that crime arose under an ex
post facto law. Goering et al deserved severe punishment. But their
guilt did not justify us in substituting power for principle."

--U.S. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas 
Kennedy, Profiles in Courage p.190. 


        I would say it is good company to be wrong with.  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MATT GIWER REPORT FOR JUN 17-18: 32.1% / 37.4%
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 1996 01:27:44 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <4r79of$lgu@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley  said:

>>
>>On Sat, 22 Jun 1996, Matt Giwer wrote:

>>>     You folks called me an anti-semite and a nazi without cause.  You
>>> harrassed my service provider.  You harrassed my family.  You did
>>> anything you could to silence me.

>>Who do you mean by "you folks?"  To date, you have identified only one
>>person who supposedly harrassed your family--Marduk--and that
>>"harrassment" consisted of a couple of rude e-mails to your son.  I
>>certainly think Marduk was wrong to have done that.  But who are the
>>others who you are accusing of harassing your family?  What did they do,
>>and when did they do it?

>The only person who harassed Giwer's family was Giwer himself, pretending he
>was Marduk.  And it wasn't even a good forgery.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                   
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story house, with their tongues and lips. After
those stairways were wased, the same people were forced to collect
garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage had to be
transferred to one place in the courtyard. "

IMT VII - p.491. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: news.admin.net-abuse.misc,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A discrepency among exterminationists...
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 17:57:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>Marty Kelley  said:


>>The only proof of "harassment" I recall seeing posted by you here was one
>>rude e-mail message from "Marduk" to your son. You never posted any other
>> evidence that your son had received rude e-mail from any other regular
>>posters in this group.  Please provide concrete evidence that any other
>>participants have ever harrassed your family in any way, or withdraw your
>> unsubstantiated claim.

>I would add to this that Giwer never posted one iota of proof that the
>alleged e-mail from Marduk was *really* from Marduk.  I would also add that
>that happened at about the time he was arguing with Mike Stein that he could
>forge an e-mail and no one would be the wiser.  I would further add that,
>not long after this, he posted an alleged post from Marduk that was so
>obviously a forgery, that even *I* could smell it out.

>The only harassment of Giwer's family was carried out by Giwer himself.

>>As several other posters have noted, a number of anti-revisionist
>>participants condemned Marduk's actions at the time you re-posted the
>>rude e-mail to your son.

>Yes, several of them fell for the troll.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                                  
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

        Anyone want to explain this one?  

" It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
way; there they were killed. "

IMT VII - p.576-577. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: revising the data, save the total
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 19:02:38 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war
stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at
him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove
satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a
new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against
the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The
prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. "

IMT VII - p. 377. 



>:      To hell with a 16 years after the fact purging of IMT nonsense.  The
>: number was 6M at the time and 6M it remains from 1945 regardless of the
>: juggling.

>:      I can not change that and neither can you.  

>Except, of course, that Hilberg (whom I cited, and whose book I suggested
>you read) does not cite a number of 6 million.  In any case, you have
>with your usual expertise, changed the issue once your original claim
>was shown to be in error.  You claimed that the number of deaths for
>each extermination camp was "revised downward."  I have pointed out
>that no historian ever took the higher numbers seriously -- and you
>yourself gave the reason why.

>In any case, were you to read Hilberg's book (something that you haven't
>and probably can't do), you would find out that he began his research
>in 1947.

>Furthermore, you still haven't given your answer to the question of where
>the original 6 million figure came from, and how it was determined.

>BTW, you can probably guess into which of the four categories of people
>mentioned in my .sig file you fit.

>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"It is absurd to divide people into good and bad.  People are either
>charming or tedious."







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Question about the Holocaust - I need an answer
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 17:57:31 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

        Anyone want to explain this one?  

" It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
way; there they were killed. "

IMT VII - p.576-577. 

>: schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>: >Could you please post your evidence that Hilberg is a pharmacist?

>:      Thank you for pointing out the minor error there.  He is a professor of
>: political science and public law who was awarded the chair in history
>: for his politically correct publications on the holocaust.

>Yes, and had you actually read his book (which you haven't and probably
>can't), you would find out that he discusses his methodology and sources.
>And you would find out that his publications on the holocaust are hardly
>"politically correct" -- for example, he took a functionalist line long
>before it was popular to do so, and his analysis of the Jewish response
>comes very close to blaming the victim for being murdered.  Which, as I
>recall, was one of the lines of argument used by our very own Prince
>Myshkin ("if each Jew had taken one gun from an SS officer. . ." -- 
>sound familiar?).

>I hope you will be as gracious in acknowledging the major error you made
>in your characterization of Hilberg as you were in acknowledging the
>"minor" one.

>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"I have, if you will forgive the expression, known several bastards
>with very high IQs."
>                                       --J. Bronowski







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ADL rabbi trys to weasel
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 01:11:06 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article ,
>schwartz@infinet.com said:

>>
>>In article <4rc3bg$98@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>> schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>>> 

>>> >"He who asserts must prove" is a valid, reasonable request. Mr. Giwer is
>>> >obviously incapable of reasonable debate, since he is without reason.
>>> > 


>>> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
>>> Subject: Those Polish spies again
>>> From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT
>>> 
>>>         Anyone want to explain this one?  
>>> 
>>> " It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
>>> built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
>>> people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
>>> then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
>>> way; there they were killed. "
>>> 
>>> IMT VII - p.576-577. 
>> 
>>In other words, Mr. Giwer refuses to accept that he must prove his own
>>assertions. 

>It's called being a gutless, trolling, spamming piece of pond-scum, Sara. 
>Giwer will soon be gone.  He has totally lost, and is reduced to behaving
>like a six-year old.



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                         
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        id smaOVkDe7; Wed Jun 19 02:58:23 1996
From: Gord McFee 
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 96 22:53:36 +0100
To: Matt Giwer 
Subject: What gives?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.03 

Matt:

I am going to try one serious message with you.  There are probably not
two
people on Usenet, certainly not in alt.revisionism, who have reviled
each
other any more than you and I.  Personal feelings aside, I seriously
want to
know what makes you tick.  Ergo, this message.  If you don't want to
correspond with me, a simple "fuck off McFee" bounced back will do the
trick;
but if you do, please read on.

I have carefully looked at many of your posts over the months.  And
something
doesn't add up.  I have difficulty believing you are really a
"revisionist",
because, quite frankly, you come across as too intelligent.  Most
"revisionists" are pretty dimwitted, and you decidedly are not.  What
you do
seem to like to do is argue.  Politics, religion, history, you name it.
You
also seem to like to take unpopular causes, get the whole newsgroup
against
you, and then try to fight your way out.  And you do this well.  Your
techniques are very effective.  You know how to push buttons.  If a
person
will be most likely to respond faced with outright distortion (the
Wannsee
incident), that's what you do.  If insult will elicit a response, you
insult. 
If obscenity, you swear.  If dragging in irrelevant topics (smoking),
you drag
them in.  And the list goes on.

In other words, you are a manipulator.  You have said as much publicly
to Alec
Grynspan.  You said as much publicly to me one time, but I was too
dimwitted
to understand what you meant.  In other words, you troll.  You enjoy
manipulating the newsgroup, deciding the topics, steering the discussion
off
in directions you want, distracting people from the thread to get them
where
you want them.  Put another way, it's all about the exercise of power.
You
enter a newsgroup you probably had never heard of before, and, within a
few
short months, you have it dancing to your tune.  No mean feat, and you
have
carried it off in superb fashion.

I remember the Marduk affair.  You played me like a trout during that
one.  Of
course, we both know that I had nothing to do with any of that, but you
were
able to get dozens of posts out of me, and start a major flamewar on
that one
issue alone.  You sensed that accusing me falsely of that kind of
juvenile
behaviour would "push my buttons" and you were right.

So, is that it?  Is that what makes you tick?


--
Gord McFee (gmcfee@ibm.net)
I'll write no line before its time







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What end serve Mr. Giwer's spams?
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 19:32:55 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <4rei41$39a@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war
stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at
him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove
satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a
new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against
the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The
prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. "

IMT VII - p. 377. 




>: libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:

>: >[Giwer] litters his posts with invective, and just last week resorted to 
>: >calling several of the female regulars on a.r. "fat broad".

>: Only Ostrov.  And of course did not read any of here posts about me to
>: which that was a response.  Too busy I guess.  

>How clever!  Sara Schwartz isn't "fat broad" but "fatbroad", eh?  If I 
>didn't know better, I'd say you were engaging in a level of hairsplitting
>that is, shall we say, Talmudic?


>> Subject:      Re: A little Q&A on the holocaust
>> From:         mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
>> Message-Id:   <4nj9se$6ai@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
>> 
>> schwartz@infinet.com wrote:
>> 
>>>In article <4n4841$ct0@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>>>(Matt Giwer) wrote:
>> 
>>>> Since I posted this, all of references to her (REGEX search under
>>>> anne) result in an error message, that the files do not exist.
>> 
>> >A JOOOOISH plot perhaps? Try looking under Anne Frank, idiot.
>> 
>>         Read the instructions and learn how regex works, fatbroad.


>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
> "an optimist is a guy/ that has never had/ much experience"







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 22:05:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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Message-ID: <4rer19$inu@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4raqek$s87@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:


>>>Is that an offer to engage in reasonable arguments with me, Mr. Giwer?  I 
>>>gladly accept.  Perhaps others would like to make similar joint 
>>>agreements with you as well--I'd certainly encourage and welcome it.

>>      There was never a problem with that as you have seen with this exchange.
>>So why do you think there is a problem with me when it is the people
>>posting to me and about me?  

>No way.  Great attempt to crawl away with one's tail between one's legs and
>pretend that one didn't get shown the fool in front of the world, but it
>won't work.  Little Mattie-bot cried "wolf" one time too many.

>See, this is just another troll.  Play sweetness and reason, after having
>been a decrepit and vulgar ass up to now, and suck 'em in all over again. 
>Then spin them around and around.  So obvious.  So transparent.  So doomed
>to failure.

>Nope, the Giwer-bot blew it.  He's gotta go, and he's going to go.




>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                                                            
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war
stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at
him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove
satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a
new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against
the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The
prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. "

IMT VII - p. 377. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 22:07:29 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4ra4d2$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
>said:

>>>>    I have not decided upon this as yet but I am considering posting
>>>> holocaust truths in response to any attack upon anyone questioning the
>>>> holocaust dogma, not just those attacking me.  
>>>> 
>>>>    Do you folks really want to continue this?  

>The Giwer-bot is scared now, big time, exactly as I predicted and willed. 
>He is almost gone.  

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

>>>May I suggest another approach altogether, Mr. Giwer?  How about this: 

>>>1) Engage in honest discussion of particular facts, using clearly 
>>>identified, documented sources to support your claims.  

>>      That depends upon whether or not the "documentation game" is going to be
>>played.  For example, "Hilberg wrote" does not count nor does "a
>>pharmacist concluded."    

>How about playing the "post what the anonymous feeders give you" game that
>the Giwer-bot is now playing?  He is reduced to this little game that would
>be exciting to a six-year old, but not to anyone remotely approaching
>adulthood.  What a pathetic little pawn he has become.  

>Are they paying the Giwer-bot?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?



>>>2) Ignore personal insults directed at you, and refrain from engaging 
>>>in insults against others.  

>>      I will not ignore it.  I would have thought that is clear by now.  

>Very clear, since the Giwer-bot's only purpose here is to troll and start
>fights and insulting people is a sure-fired way to do it.

>>>Your taking those actions would do a great deal to elevate the 
>>>level of discourse in this group.  

>>      All by my self?  

>It would be a start, since the Giwer-bot lowered the level of discourse all
>by himself.

>And now the mighty Giwer, magnificent in his "victory", is reduced to
>threatening to spam the group anytime anyone dares disagree with any of his
>"revisionist" cobblers and cutters, doers and doubters.  What a pathetic
>creature, completely and utterly decimated, left with nothing but games
>played by school children.

>The bot lost, like they always do, and soon he will go the way of the dodo
>bird, the Gannon-goof and Craven Raven.  Bye-bye Mattie-bot.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>              







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 22:08:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4rapru$9he@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
>Ostrov) said:

>>
>>In <4ra4o1$qc6@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>>abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) wrote:

>>>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>>>>   I have not decided upon this as yet but I am considering posting
>>>>>holocaust truths in response to any attack upon anyone questioning the
>>>>>holocaust dogma, not just those attacking me.

>>>>I think this would be a valuable idea (no irony intended), because then
>you would
>>>>actually present _texts_ and not only cut-and-paste quotations of other
>people's posts.
>>>>I prefer having something to base a reply on, as you probably know.

>>>     Then of course that would equally apply to the mindless repeated Keren
>>>spams would it not?  

>>Oh, I must have dropped in to the wrong topic.  I thought the header read
>>"a new approach"  

>>But I see it is still "business as usual" for Mr. Giwer.  I seem to recall
>>that he actually had demonstrated his ability to post without any
>>unwarranted childish outbursts and gratuitous insults etc.  Then again, I
>>did see a very informative post from Mr. Graves a few hours ago.  So
>>perhaps that was the other Mr. Giwer.

>The Giwer-bot is on the way out.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 22:08:56 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <4rer8h$inu@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4r7ujb$1us@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> <4r8r6h$p9@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <4rcoi1$p82@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r8r6h$p9@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
>abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) said:

>>
>>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>>>     I have not decided upon this as yet but I am considering posting
>>>holocaust truths in response to any attack upon anyone questioning the
>>>holocaust dogma, not just those attacking me.

>>I think this would be a valuable idea (no irony intended), because then
>>you would actually present _texts_ and not only cut-and-paste quotations
>>of other people's posts. I prefer having something to base a reply on, as
>>you probably know.

>Nele, when he says "holocaust truths", he does not mean texts; he means the
>same cut-and-paste garbage that some so-called "neutral" participants have
>been spoon-feeding him.


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?



>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                








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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 22:17:25 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 49
Message-ID: <4rk4gs$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4rbn4p$rsi@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
>said:

>>
>>      Giwer's at it again - he followed-up an article, just to paste a quote in
>>at the end - an irrelevant one too. Does he just fall asleep at the
>>keyboard or is he using a spambot?

>Spambot, and accomplices, almost as putrid as he.  Fear not, he will soon be
>gone.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes.
Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve to
regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory."

IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  





>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>  







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer, DThomas, and "asshole"
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 23:48:57 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>DvdThomas (dvdthomas@aol.com) wrote:

>: When a new contact is civil with him [Giwer], he remains so to them.  

>Would you be so kind as to explain what incivility "SF924" performed 
>to deserve this comment from Myshkin?

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?


>> Message-ID: <4r5237$kl1@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>
>       
>> Very good holohugger style.  You asked your question
>> under false pretenses and now you expect to continue it.  Good luck.  


>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"Life is a blur of Republicans and meat."   -- Zippy







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: flags banned by Olympic committee
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 21:26:24 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Jul 1996 13:45:33 GMT, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>(Moran and Graves snipped)
>>
>Mr. Moran sez;
>This "peace" you talk about, is this one that was voted on by the
>>people of Israel and their amen corner here in the U.S., the one where
>>the new elected Prime Minister was voted in who ran on the platform of
>>defying U.N. Resolutions, no Palestinian State, no compromise on
>>Jeruselem, no compromise on the Golan Heights, the one that caused the
>>full Arab world to meet in Cairo to discuss the intransience of Israel
>>- is this the "peace" your talking about?
>Oh, you mean the Arab summit, in which it was discussed that Israel
>had better turn over half of Jerusalem, allow a Palestinian state to
>be declared and in general agree to any two bit demand that comes from
>the mind of Arafat. Well to bad for you that, that isn't going to
>happen. Instead Arafat will have to follow the Oslo accords that he
>signed and agreed to but has yet to follow, then he will have to reign
>in terrorists that are coming from his area, and lastly he will have
>to out live his fellow thugs who are busy trying to retire him, or
>haven't you read the latest Fatah threats??
>>>Related story about a runner on the Palestinian team at
>>>http://www.usatoday.com/olympics/odxg011.htm
>>>
>>>-rich
>>> http://www.c2.org/~rich/
>>

>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war
stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at
him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove
satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a
new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against
the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The
prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. "

IMT VII - p. 377. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank
Date: Wed, 03 Jul 1996 19:07:41 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gtaylor@msn.fullfeed.com (Gregory Taylor) wrote:

>  wrote:
>>>Are you now claiming that you believe Anne Frank's diary to be a hoax?  
>>>In the past, I believe you had stated that you didn't know.  Please 
>>>clarify your position on the authenticity of the _Diary_; I would also 
>>>like to know why you think it's a hoax (if you do).
>>
>>      I said exactly what I said.  That there was a plagarism settlement.  
>>      What would be of interest is finding the book the plagarism was claimed
>>       to  be from and which parts were involved.  

>I expect that the reason for the question [which you didn't adress, to my
>*shock and surprise*] was that we'd all be very interested to know about
>this settlement. Are those the chemicals talking, 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What a clever way to kill people
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:48:00 GMT


"PAUL WALDMANN: In this small room [at Sachsenhausen] there was a slot
in the wall, approximately 50 centimeters in length. The prisoner of war
stood with the back of his head against the slot and a sniper shot at
him from behind the slot. In practice this arrangement did not prove
satisfactory, since the sniper often missed the prisoner. After 8 days a
new arrangement was made. The prisoner, as before, was placed against
the wall; an iron plate was then slowly lowered onto his head. The
prisoner was under the impression that he was being measured for
height. The iron plate contained a ramrod which shot out suddenly and
poleaxed the prisoner with a blow on the back of the head. He dropped
dead. The iron plate was operated by a foot lever in a corner of the
room. "

IMT VII - p. 377. 




or can you actually
>come up with something resembling verifiable information? 

>I'll be very surprised to discover that you confabulated this one, too....


>-- 
>The arts are the field on which we place our own dreams, thoughts, and desires
>alongside those of others, so that solitudes can meet, to their joy sometimes,
>or to their surprise, and sometimes to their disgust.(R. Hughes) Gregory Taylor
>WORT-FM 89.9 Madison, Wisconsin http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~gtaylor/RTQE.html







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN ADMISSION OF PERFIDIOUS GUILT
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:55:49 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:

>I am, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  My usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel that I have cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters 
>of obscenity or indecency, or both.  It is  obvious that rational discourse 
>with him is not only not possible, it is feared by me.  


========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

        Anyone want to explain this one?  

" It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
way; there they were killed. "

IMT VII - p.576-577. 
















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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now I'm *really* confused. . .
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:30 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:

>Prince Myshkin (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

>: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>:: The G*wer-Troll 

>: [280 lines of beabling deleted]

>Now I really don't get it.  Myshkin 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

originally came to this newsfroup
>and explicitly told us that he was here merely to troll, or, as he put
>it at the time, "push people's hot buttons."

>Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to why he now considers being called
>a troll 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?

a personal attack?  The only thing I can guess is that he really
>does want everyone to think that he's a liar, 

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?



so telling the truth would
>then be a personal attack against him by definition.

>-----
>Richard Schultz                              schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
>Department of Chemistry                      tel: 972-3-531-8065
>Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel       fax: 972-3-535-1250
>-----
>"I have, if you will forgive the expression, known several bastards
>with very high IQs."
>                                       --J. Bronowski







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: The GiwerOlympics: Speed-Posting and UDP consideration
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:12 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4r9q65$f59@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rich@c2.org (Rich Graves)
>said:

>>
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>>How long does it take, in Free Agent, to send a post, read another in
>>another group, change the From: line in preferences, and send another
>>post? Can it be done in four seconds? 

>>Remember that this is _Free_ Agent, which does not have any of the
>>automation features of the full version.

>>Anyone agree that it's more likely that we're looking at more than one
>>person using multiple machines? 

>>I'm analyzing the GiwerTroll's spewage for the month of June now. It's
>>quite interesting, when you take a step back. I'll be issuing about 300
>>EMP spam-cancels soon. Of course, the effect is largely symbolic, unless
>>and until I write a script to autocancel messages matching a certain
>>pattern.

>There is no doubt that he is being fed and mutiple posters are at play.  His
>ass is grass and he knows it.  I am aware of the source of his spam
>material, as well as the other posters, and may just reveal it in a day or
>so.  Giwer is gonzo.


>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                                                                     
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?








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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: H*ber and Ma**ik* will lie for food
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:34 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

>On 1 Jul 1996 13:37:55 GMT, EEGG87E@prodigy.com (M Huber) wrote:

>>04/29/96
>>New York
>>
>>Sen. Alfonse D'Amato today called for the federal govt' to extradite the 
>>mastermind of the Achille Lauro hijacking to face trial in the U.S.
>>
>>He called Abul Abbas's recent apology for the accidental death of the 
>>cruise ship passenger leon KLINGHOFFER an "outrage", and said the Justice 
>>Department should seek to punish Abbas.
>>**********************************************
>Yes I can see how H*ber, Ma**ik*, could possibly think that it would
>have been an accident. I see it now, brave Abul Abbas, and at least
>two of his buddies bravely lift Mr. Klinghoffer off the deck of the
>ship, then in a single deft move, they heave Mr. Klinghoffer over the
>side Wheelchair and all.  Was there an accident, not by me, but the
>accident theory is one that H*ber and Ma**ik* believe, why?? Because
>how could a brave freedom fighter like Abul Abbas have done that to
>one sick, disabled Jew??  You see, H*ber, Ma**ik* , and what ever nut
>of the week is using the H*ber account on prodigy, enjoy posting
>material like the above and worse, why?? Simple, they aren't getting
>the attention that they so want from those around them, and this is
>their way of trying to gain the attention that they think they need to
>live. 
>I realize that their's is a sad world, pathetic, would be more
>appropriate, and bizzare and sick closer to reality, but hey give them
>a break, life is tough, when you hate Jews. 
>Just ask Mr. Kleim just how tough his world was, Jew hating and all,
>or maybe Ron Schoedel, who having resigned from some "movement" that
>he claimed never to have  belonged to, and yet seemed to work so hard
>at.  Why Mr. Schoedel even apologized for his misbegotten statements
>and hoped that would end that, and promptly returned, renewed with
>vigor and vim, new hope, and insights into, gasp, dare I say it,
>Jew-Hatred, disguised as religion. 
> 

>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: No fuel needed
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:49:31 GMT


"MORGEN: These places were faked cloakrooms, and the person was given a
check at each
one so that the people believed that they would get their things back
... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas was let
into the room. As soon as death had set in, the ventilators were
started. When the air could be breathed again, the doors were opened,
and the Jewish workers removed the bodies. By means of a special
procedure... they were burned in the open air without the use of fuel."

IMT XX - p. 494. 

        More Nazi physics at work. 

        I am certain our favorite chemist can explain this one.

        On the other hand, why did they ever need any crematoria if they could
do this?







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: a new approach, same old troll
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 21:15:11 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Those Polish spies again
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:46:23 GMT

        Anyone want to explain this one?  

" It was in 1942 [at Belsen] that the special electrical appliances were
built in for mass extermination of people. Under the pretext that the
people were being led to the bath-house, the doomed were undressed and
then driven to the building where the floor was electrified in a special
way; there they were killed. "

IMT VII - p.576-577. 



kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

>In article <4rbn4p$rsi@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, 
>dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

>>      Giwer's at it again - he followed-up an article, just to paste a quote
>>in at the end - an irrelevant one too. Does he just fall asleep at the
>>keyboard or is he using a spambot?

>Which Giwer?

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | Shofar FTP Archives
>-----------------------| WEST: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl? 
>An Electronic Holocaust| EAST: ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/
>Education Network      | EUROPE: ftp://nizkor.iam.uni-bonn.de/pub/nizkor/







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A question for revisionists re: defenses at N'burg
Date: Fri, 05 Jul 1996 22:16:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <4rk4fi$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4radpv$m02@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com said:

>>
>>hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

>>>Mr. Giwer is to be commended for conducting himself  throughout this
>>>post without the use of unwarranted childish, disrespectful
>>>namecalling and/or gratuitous profanities and invective.  

>>      Do you really think I give a damn about your opinion?  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes.
Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve to
regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory."

IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  


>[deleted]

>>      Yes, fatbroad, you have done it again, demonstrated that you are as
>>ignorant of the current version of the holocaust myth as you are of HTML
>>or anything else that would in fact earn the co-webmaster title.  

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, an obscene and pathetic troller
>whose only interest is in causing fights.  His usual modus operandi when
>being flayed in a discussion is to ignore the statement completely and post
>irrelevant drivel he cobbled somewhere, or to descend to the gutters of
>obscenity or indecency, or both.  The preceeding quote is an example of this
>and makes it obvious that rational discourse with him is not only not
>possible, it is feared by him.  

>For more detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to 

>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Another gas chamber
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:52:14 GMT

        Guess what?  I found a gas chamber in the old Reich.  I have also found
powdered cyanide.  

"Inside the showerbath [ at Dachau]- the gas vents. On the ceiling- the
dummy shower heads. In the engineers' room- the intake and outlet pipes.
Push buttons to control inflow and outtake of gas. A hand-valve to
regulate pressure. Cyanide powder was used to generate the lethal smoke.
From the gas chamber, the bodies were removed to the crematory."

IMT XXX - p.470. 

        Amazing what you can find if you look around.  

        And holohuggers are going to believe it.  

>--
>Gord McFee



>.. I'll write no line before its time(gmcfee@ibm.net)
>-- MR/2 2.27 #331

>                                               







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'They don't call Giwer the cotrol for nothing!'
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 1996 23:52:20 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
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On 6 Jul 1996 19:29:30 +0100, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell) wrote:

>mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
>>      It is unclear what a schwarte is doing pointing here.  

>       I think Mattie Giwer needs to lie down, as he is even *more* confused
>than ever.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ooooo, those nasty SS
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 21:53:37 GMT


" The SS forced [women] to wash the stairs leading from the seven
entrances to the four-story
house, with their tongues and lips. After those stairways were wased,
the same people were
forced to collect garbage in the courtyard with their lips. All garbage
had to be transferred to one
place in the courtyard. "
IMT VII - p.491. 




>       Derek

>-- 
>Derek Bell  dbell@maths.tcd.ie  WWW: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/~dbell/index.html
>           Assassination is the extreme form of censorship.
>                    George Bernard Shaw (1856-1960)
>                       _The Rejected Statement_







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: A TRICKY VIPER...
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:56 GMT
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On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 18:50:07 EDT, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:

>In article <4rkpam$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>Giwer) said:

>>
>>Michael  Perin  wrote:

>>>Dear Luke,

>>>I saw a segment of C-SPAN around the middle of June when a caller from  
>>>Georgia reported a strange incident that she had seen in her local paper 
>>>relative to the Militia issue. She said that it was reported in her paper 
>>>that two supposed Militia members who had been arrested a few months 
>>>earlier because they had been planning to blow up federal buildings, were 
>>>in fact, BATF/FBI agents, and that the whole thing was a set up hoax!
>>>Although the arrests of these hoaxsters made the headlines all accross the

>>>country, the fact that they were federal agents posing as Militia members 
>>>in order to discredit the Militia movement was completely ignored by the 
>>>national media. 

>>      And what has come out about this "Viper Militia" so far does not make
>>much sense.  

>I see!  Getting wiped out and humiliated in the Holocaust discussion, so the
>Giwer-bot decides to troll the militia issue.  What an unmitigated defeat
>the Giwer-loser has suffered.

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85 
     According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others. 







Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:27:52 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <4rl18j$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 05 11:31:47 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Testimony of Dr. Hans W. Muench 
>[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military 
>Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol.
>VIII, p. 313-321]
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Q. What was your first impression of Auschwitz when you arrived?

>A. I had already heard about extermination camps, and particularly
>   extermination camps for Jews, through reports over the Swiss radio
>   that I listened to regularly in the preceding years, but since I
>   considered this news to be propaganda, I did not believe it at the
>   time, because the facts that were being described seemed too 
>   terribly outrageous to me. When I arrived in Auschwitz, and had to
>   convince myself personally that these reports were not exaggerated, 
>   I was very much shaken emotionally.



Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)







Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:28:13 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 72
Message-ID: <4rl198$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 05 11:32:08 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:



>Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler  
>[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
>and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at 
>no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
>the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
>prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
>other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
>parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
>naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
>sent to the gas chamber.

> .
> .
> .

>I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
>the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.

>


>-Danny Keren.

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)
















Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:28:39 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 207
Message-ID: <4rl1a5$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
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X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 05 11:32:37 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
>about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
>were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).

>All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
>Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
>who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
>participated in the gassing operations).

>Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by 
>the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
>1945 (p. 153-4):
>----------------------------------------------------------------------                                       
>The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with 
>injections were begun in 1942.

>"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
>know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
>looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
>phenolic acid".

>First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
>"I assume that the intravenous method took too long".

>"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many
>people were the victims of such injections?"

>"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people
>were killed in this fashion".

>First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not
>hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round-
>about way".

>"Who did the killing?"

>"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order - 
>Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent
>man and were surprised that he did it".


>Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71):
>------------------------------------------
>"How did you kill these prisoners?"
>"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart".


>SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79):
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial
>hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections
>in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into
>the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal
>injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran
>away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant,
>murdered the remaining 80 children.

>"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks.
>"That is exaggerated. It isn't true".

>Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the
>children, panic-stricken, had screamed.

>"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected
>nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated".

>The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions
>who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had
>that the children may have feared death.


>Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the 
>Zamosc children (p. 152):
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led
>into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe
>came; I still remember that".

>Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment; 
>nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the
>heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the 
>washroom.

>"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and
>left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining
>children".


>Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8):
>---------------------------------------------------
>"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his
>own authority?"

>"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000".

>[...]

>But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in
>Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity
>of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up
>between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of
>Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing
>outside. There were more than 100".

>He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We
>thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off
>in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him 
>stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took 
>over. Hantl finished the murder of the children".

>Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186):
>----------------------------------------
>Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the 
>"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings
>with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner
>hospital.

>"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with 
>phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of
>justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last-
>named behaved like saints compared to Klehr".

>[...]

>The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the
>Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the
>children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was
>decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them
>into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where
>the played and were given food by older prisoners. 

>"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of
>us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed?
>Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end".

>Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where
>almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr
>from the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain 
>behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner 
>took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them 
>with his phenol injection.

>"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long
>time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would
>take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The
>first ones had screamed with terror in the room".

>"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then 
>continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I 
>helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a 
>state of complete collapse". 


>

>The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
>4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
>served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
>free man.

>-Danny Keren.

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)







Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 06:29:03 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 107
Message-ID: <4rl1as$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 05 11:33:00 PM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:

>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
>department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
>[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
>1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
>the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
>planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
>on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
>cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
>been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
>should be ready by February 20th.


>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, March 6 1943
>[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
>the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 434]
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ... order of 6/3/1943 concerning the delivery of a gas tight door
>100 x 192 cm for cellar I of Krematorium III, to be produced to
>the identical pattern and dimensions as the cellar door of
>Krematorium II which is situated opposite, with peephole of
>double 8 mm glass, with rubber sealing strip and frame.


>Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler 
>estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours 
>in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 25 1943
>[Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
>the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247]
>-------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1.) Crematorium I
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  3 x 2 muffles             340 persons

> 2.) Crematorium II
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons

> 3.) Crematorium III
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons 

> 4.) Crematorium IV
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  8 muffles                  768 persons

> 5.) Crematorium V
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  8 muffles                  768 persons


>(See 

>ftp://www.nizkor.eye.net/pub/nizkor/camps/auschwitz/images/Furn_cap.jpg

>for a photo of this document).


>-Danny Keren.


Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Construction in Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 08:21:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <4rt4tb$avn@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <4rl1as$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <31E0FA01.A2C@rio.com>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09  3:23:07 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:07:29 +0000, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>The Gywer turkey is spreading his nonsense about breakfast again. It's 
>spamming which isn't ethical, but then it's Gywer
>Chuck

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85 
     According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racism in Holocaust books
Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:19:42 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 240
Message-ID: <4rl49u$6a8@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl5-11.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jul 06 12:23:42 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

>In article <31dd3267.3671351@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
>moran) wrote:

>Once more Moran breaks wind in alt.revisionism with yet another decietful
>and worthless exposition in intellectual dishonesty:

>>         
>>                          Partial Repost
>>                     from "Holocaust of Mind"
>>                                     
>> 
>> V.                         Raul Hilberg,
>>              "The Destruction of European Jews"
>> 
>> "On October 30, 1941, Gebietskommissar Carl of Slutsk reported to
>> Generalkommissar Kube of White Russia that the 11th Lithuanian Police
>> Battalion had arrived in his city suddenly in order to wipe out the
>> Jewish community. He had pleaded with the battalion commander for a
>> postponement, pointing out that the Jews were working as skilled
>> laborers and specialists and that White Russian mechanics were, '"so
>> to speak, nonexistent'".

>"On October30, 1941, Gebeitskommisar Carl of Sluzk, WHite Russia, reported
>to Kube that the 11th Lithuanian Police battalion had arrived in his city
>and had come suddenly in order to wipe out the Jewish community. He had
>pleaded with the battalion commander for a postponement, pointing out that
>the Jews were working as skilled laborers and specialists and that White
>Russian mechanics were, 'so to speak, nonexistant.' Certainly the skilled
>men would have to be sifted out. The battalion commander did not
>contradict him, and the interview ended upon a note of complete
>understanding. The police battalion then encircled the Jewish quarter and
>dragged out everybody. White Russians in the area tried desperately to get
>out. Factories and workshops stopped fucntioning. The _Geibietskommissar_
>hurried to the scene; he was shocked by what he saw. 'There was no
>question of an action against the Jews anymore. It looked rather like a
>revolution.' Shots were fired. Lithuanian police hit Jews with rifle butts
>and rubber truncheons. Shops were turned inside out. Peasant carts
>(_Panjewagen_) which had been ordered by the army to move ammunition stood
>abandoned with their horses in the streets. Outside the town the mass
>shootings were carried out hurredly. Some of the Jews, wounded but not
>killed, worked themselves out of the graves. When the police battalion
>departed, Gebeitskommisar Carl had a handful of Jewish workers left. In
>every shop there were a few survivors, some of them with bloddy and
>bruised faces, their wives and children dead." (Ibid. p.246.)

>And what of such actions? What did they accomplish, besides brutal and
>wanton mass murder? According to Hilberg a report dated December 2, 1941,
>by an expert in the Armament Inspectorate, Oberkreigsverwaltungsrat
>Professor Seraphim, to the chief of the Economy-Armaments Office in the
>OKW summarized it thus:

>"Serophim wrote that, obviously, 'the kind of solution of the Jewish
>problem applied in the Ukraine' was based on ideological theories, not on
>economic considerations. So far, 150,000 to 200,000 Jews had been
>'executed' in the _Reichkommissariat_. One result of this operation was
>that considerable numbers of 'superflous eaters' had been eliminated.
>Undoubtably, the dead had also been a hostile element 'which hated us.' On
>the other hand, the Jews had been 'anxious' and 'obliging' from the start.
>They had tried to avoid everything that might have displeased the German
>administration; they had played no significant part in sabotage; they had
>constituted no danger to the armed forces. Although driven only by fear,
>they had been producing goods in satisfactory quantities.

>"Moreover the killing of the Jews could not be looked upon as an isolated
>phenomenon. The city population and farm laborers were already starving.
>'It must be realized,' concluded Seraphim, 'that in the Ukraine only
>Ukranians can produce economic values. If we shoot the Jews, let the
>prisoners of war perish, condemn considerable parts of the urban
>population to death by starvation, and lose also part of the farming
>population by hunger during the next year, the question remains
>unanswered: Who in all the world is then supposed to produce something
>valuable here?' The answer to this rhetorical question was soon to be
>provided by Himmler's men.

>"The sweep through the _Ostland_ in the fall of 1941 was only a warmup,
>but it settled a decisive issue. The Jews were at the disposal of the
>civil and military authorities only at the sufference of the SS and
>Police. The killers had first claim. (Ibid. p.247.)


>>         Stupid Russians.

>Hardly. Stupid Nazis. And stupid Moran for taken Hilberg, who can easily
>be verified, out of context.

>>                             =================
>> 
>> 
>> VI.          "The Destruction of the European Jewery"
>>                         Raul Hilberg    
>> 
>>         "On Nov.7 Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw district proposed that
>> the Warsaw Jews (whose number he estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated
>> in a ghetto, and Frank gave his immediate consent... 

>"...Across from the border of the incorporated territories, in the
>_Generalgouvernement_, Gouverneur Fischer of the Warsaw District proposed,
>as early as November 7, 1939, that the Warsaw Jews (who's number he
>estimated at 300,000) be incarcerated in a ghetto. Frank gave his
>immediate consent to the proposal, but the plan was premature. The
>administrative obsticles were formidable; the emigration policy was still
>in force; and the military offices in the city - to whom, in the meantime,
>the Jews were appealing for intervention - were apparently opposed to the
>whole idea. In February, 1940, the proposal was renewed by the SS and
>Police, only to be opposed on administrative grounds by the civilian
>offices in Warsaw. But the project was far from dead." (_Destruction_,
>p.150.)

>> ...During the winter, Fischer created a Resettlement Division under 
>> Waldermar Schon, who was going to have a major role in ghetto planning...

>I have no idea where this text is in _Destruction_. (I suspect it is not.)
>The only mention of Scho"n in the index occurs on page 151 and reads:

>"...However, as an excuse for the establishment of of the [Warsaw] ghetto,
>the Jewish typhus cases were more important even than Jewish criminality
>and the Jewish drive for world power. In February, 1941, the chief of the
>Migration Section, in the Interior Division of the office of the Warsaw
>_Gouverneur_, Reichsamtsleiter Scho"n, listed three reasons for the
>ghettoization. His reasons, in order of importance, were the epidemics,
>Jewish black-market activity and price gouging, and 'political and moral'
>reasons. In March the Medical Division in the office of the Warsaw
>_Gouverneur_, in co-operation with the Propaganda Division of the
>district, launched a propaganda campaing directed at the Polish
>population. The two divisions had devised a slogan which they circulated
>on posters, in newspapers, in movies, and in schools. the slogan was
>'Jews-Lice-Typhus' (Juden-La"use-Fleckfieber)." (Ibid. p.151.)

>> ...The first idea, in February, to locate the ghetto in the eastern bank 
>> of the Vistula River, was turned down ... 

>I cannot find this text in _Destruction_. However, what Hilberg has to say
>on the formation of the Warsaw ghetto is instructive:

>"We need not discuss the details of the ghetto formation in Warsaw,
>because they are quite similar to the administrative measures which had
>been taken in Lodz..." (Ibid. p.151.)

>> ...on the ground that 80 percent of Warsaw's artisans were Jews
>>... and were indispensible ..."

>Again, I have no idea where this text is in _Destruction_. (I suspect it
>does not exist.) The only mention of arists (no mention of artisans) in
>the index occurs on page 58:

>"...When Goebbels, the party's propaganda chief, formed his Propaganda
>Ministry, he began to issue decrees. One of the first measures was the
>decree of October 4, 1933, which directed the newspapers to remove all
>non-Aryan editors. Other regulations which followed assured ouster of
>Jewish musicians, artists, writers, and so, by exluding them from the
>guilds ('chambers'). No artist could practice unless he was a member of
>one of the Goebbels-controlled guilds." (Ibid. p.58.)

>One has to wonder what possible importance the Nazis would have attached
>to artisans who were Polish Jews if they did not attach any importance to
>artists who were German Jews whom they persecuted?

>> Well it seems Hilberg gives the Poles more sense than the White
>> Russians whose talents he claimed were for the most part "nonexistant"
>> in relation to the Jews and the Poles in their own nation made up 20%.
>> Either way - stupid Poles.

>Not at all. Hilberg makes no such claims. Moran, twisting and distorting
>Hilberg- not to mention fabricating quotes attributed to Hilberg out of
>whole cloth -does. 

>Case in point is this stupid innuendo about the White Russians.
>Gebietskommissar Carl was quoted as saying that: "White Russian mechanics
>were, 'so to speak, nonexistant." In other words, there weren't any
>around. Probably because the Nazis either killed them all, or they were in
>hiding, or they fled with the retreating Red Army. 

>> One could wonder what ratio of "artisans" he would profess the
>> Jews have in America. 

>Hardly. One _can_, however, wonder at the depths of intellectual depravity
>that Moran will plumb in his Jew-bashing. So far the abyss of his
>anti-Semitism and hatred appears bottomless. 

>[Given the above pack of lies, deciet and distortions on Moran's part the
>rest of his mental sewage is mercifully snipped]

>Mark


>posted/e-mailed

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
>not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
>right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

>-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)







Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac - I.G. Farben's Auschwitz Diet...
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 09:00:02 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 90
Message-ID: <4rt74u$so4@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4rlgvo$jkn@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4rnhq4$i03@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <4rp9on$15r@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 09  2:01:18 AM PDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Sun, 07 Jul 1996 21:23:20 GMT, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary Ostrov)
wrote:

>In <4rnhq4$i03@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt
>Giwer) wrote:

>>On 6 Jul 1996 04:00:08 -0700, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay
>>OBC) wrote:

>>>Archive/File: orgs/german/farben.ig farben.002
>>>Last-modified: 1993/10/24
>>>See Also: holocaust diet.01

>>>   I.G. Auschwitz: I.G. Farben's Buna (synthetic rubber) division, built
>>>   near the site of the Auschwitz I and Auschwitz II concentration
>>>   camps. (Farben eventually built their own corporate concentration
>>>   camp at the site, to eliminate the need to march prisoners several
>>>   miles to and from the Buna plant every day, as had been the practice.
>>>   It was known as Monowitz, and had a sign over the gate which read
>>>   "Arbeit Macht Frei.")

>>>[Editor's note: I understand that the "Arbeit Macht Frei" sign can be seen
>>>today over the gate at Auschwitz I - this raises the question of whether or
>>>not there were more than one, or if the one the author mentions was moved to
>>>Auschwitz I at a later date, or if the author was simply incorrect. knm]

>>>   "Starvation was a permanent guest at Auschwitz.  The diet fed to I.G.
>>>   Auschwitz inmates, which included the famous 'Buna Soup' - a
>>>   nutritional aid not available to other prisoners - resulted in an
>>>   average weight loss for each individual of about six and a half to
>>>   nine pounds a week.  At the end of a month, the change in the
>>>   prisoner's appearance was marked; at the end of two months, the
>>>   inmates were not recognizable except as caricatures formed of skin,
>>>   bones, and practically no flesh; after three months, they were either
>>>   dead or so unfit for work that they were marked for release to the
>>>   gas chambers at Birkenau.  Two physicians who studied the effect of
>>>   the I.G.  diet on the inmates noticed that 'the normally nourished
>>>   prisoner at Buna could make up the deficiency by his own body for a
>>>   period of three months....The prisoners were condemned to burn up
>>>   their own body weight while working and, providing no infections
>>>   occurred, finally died of exhaustion.'">>   others - typical SS Auschwitz punishment reports> (Borkin, 125)


>>>                            Work Cited

>>>   Borkin, Joseph. The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben. New York: 
>>>   The Free Press, 1978, and London: Macmillan Publishing Company. 

>>      It is rather laughable that anyone would believe this kind of story.  

>The Giwer-troll provides further corroboration of Mike Stein's
>assessment in another thread that he (the troll)  lacks the intellect,
>intelligence or comprehension skills to be able to contribute in any
>meaningful way in a discussion of the history of the Holocaust.  

>If anything is laughable it is that the troll deludes himself by
>thinking that he is capable of participating in any debate.

>[balance snipped]

>hro
>=======================
>Hilary Ostrov
>e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
>http://haven.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
>Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.eye.net/

========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85 
     According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others. 







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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Collective FlimFlam
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 05:58:28 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <4rnjtq$r8t@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
References: <31d13610.64608169@news.zilker.net>  <4qvapu$kfb@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>  <4rm63p$n8q@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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On 6 Jul 1996 10:00:41 -0700, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay
OBC) wrote:

>In article , 
>schwartz@infinet.com wrote, citing a troll:

>>> In fact his policy grew from his experience commanding the garrison at
>>> Vicksberg.  There he became appalled by the civilian response to his

>>Interesting statements. Where did you get the idea that "scorched earth"
>>came from Vicksburg? (Note spelling.) It just so happens that I'm reading
>>a few books on the very subject right now, and NONE of them cone to the
>>same conclusion that you do.

>That is because _you_ are talking about Vicksburg, while the
>troll is not. _It_ is talking about Vicksberg, as it clearly
>indicated. Vicksburg is off topic - Vicksberg is, as the troll
>will no doubt later illustrate, somewhere in Poland, and
>therefore _on_ topic, as the troll would never post an
>off-topic article here, nosiree h*ber.

>(I recommend you point your rigii at
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>or 
>http://www.nizkor.eye.net/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/sorry-charlie.html
>in order to better understand what you are dealing with here.)

>>He who asserts must prove, Mr. Giwer. 

>The troll did indeed say that, but the troll most certainly
>did not mean that. It routinely says things that it does not mean. 
>It is called "lying," or "duplicity." See URL
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/mantra-chanting-fool.html
>for a pristine example.

>>Where did the above information come from?

>Interesting question, particularly when asked of this
>particular troll, which often spouts off without even a remote
>basis or foundation for its blather.

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/email-96-06.html

>(I don't think you were supposed to ask that question, Sara.)

>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-30000-kcal.html

>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

>Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's
>special newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be
>appropriately ignored.

>Emailed and posted. Followups redirected to the appropriate
>newsgroup, as noted.

>-- 
>Nizkor Canada          | http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>-----------------------| Prince Myshkin's Giwer Bait Sold Here
>                       |--------------------------------------
>     http://www.almanac.bc.ca/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

Man: Morning.
Waitress: Morning.
M: Well, what you got?
W: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg, sausage and bacon; egg and spam;
    egg, bacon and spam; egg, bacon, sausage and spam; spam, bacon,
    sausage and spam; spam, egg, spam, spam, bacon and spam; spam,
    sausage, spam, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam; spam, spam,
    spam, egg and spam; (vikings start singing in background) spam,
spam,
    spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam, spam, spam and spam.
Vikings: Spam, spam , spam, spam, lovely spam, lovely spam.
W (cont): or lobster thermador ecrovets with a bournaise sause, served
    in the purple salm manor with chalots and overshies, garnashed with
    truffle pate, brandy, a fried egg on top and spam.
Wife: Have you got anything without spam?
Waitress: Well, there's spam, egg, sausage and spam.  That's not got
much spam in it.
Wi: I don't want any spam!
M: Why can't she have egg, bacon, spam and sausage?
Wi: That's got spam in it.
M: It hasn't got as much spam in it as spam, egg, sausage and spam has
it?
Wi: (over vikings starting again) Could you do me egg, bacon, spam and
    sausage without the spam then?
Wa: Ech!
Wi: What do you mean ech!  I don't like spam!
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam....etc
Wa: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!  Bloody vikings.  You can't have egg,
bacon
    spam and sausage without the spam.
Wi: I don't like spam!
M: Sh dear, don't cause a fuss.  I'll have your spam.  I love it.  I'm
having spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, baked beans, spam,
spam, spam and spam. (starts vikings off again)
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc
Wa: Shut up!  Baked beans are off.
M: Well, can I have her spam instead of the baked beans?
Wa: You mean spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam,
spam, spam, and spam?
V: Lovely spam, wonderful spam...etc...spam, spam, spam! (in harmony)








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From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Nizkor
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 07:30:53 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <4rt1tm$51g@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <31d921ee.5817326@news.pacificnet.net> <31de6f60.521457@news.pacificnet.net> <31de7928.3025928@news.pacificnet.net> <31dec774.16009484@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc172.1503736@news.pacificnet.net> <31dfc461.2254781@news.pacificnet.net> <4rp9oq$15r@atlas.uniserve.com> <31e02f2c.10612004@news.pacificnet.net> <31E0FE9C.708B@rio.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tam-fl1-05.ix.netcom.com
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X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Mon, 08 Jul 1996 12:27:08 +0000, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

>Chuck Ferree, can't keep his trap shut about lil tommy numbnuts:
>What is the Moron up to now? Is he doing Gywer's thing? Spamming all 
>over the internet? Is this his way of discussing the Holocaust? Must 
>be, he hasn't been able to come up with anything except shoes made in 
>China by Jooos for The Holocaust Museums.
>This takes real Moron, brain-power. Yuk-Yuk-cackle!  :-)
>your pal,
>Chuck
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Where smoke and flame stories come from
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer)
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 1996 22:16:02 GMT

1/12/85 
     According to the Toronto Globe and Mail, Arnold Friedman swore
under oath that he had seen "fourteen foot flames" shooting out of the
chimneys of crematorium at Auschwitz, and that he was able to tell
whether the Nazis were burning fat Jewish Hungarians or skinnyJewish
Poles by looking at the different colors of the smoke and
flames coming out of the crematorium. On cross-examination, however, Mr.
Friedman reversed himself upon being presented with details of
crematorium operation, and was forced to
agree that perhaps Jews were not being burned in crematoria buildings.
Mr. Friedman then made the startling confession that his entire
testimony was based on what he had been told by others. 







Path: news.voyager.net!aanews.merit.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Email 'bombings'?
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 10:38:05 GMT
Organization: images incarnate
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <4s2llg$jep@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <4s0hcj$o26@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <31e45824.5229354@news>
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X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Jul 11  5:39:44 AM CDT 1996
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82

On Thu, 11 Jul 1996 01:31:04 GMT, pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

>On 10 Jul 1996 11:14:27 -0400, ruthsommer@aol.com (RuthSommer) wrote:

>(some stuff snipped)
>>If anti-revisionists are doing this to revisionists, what does it mean? 
>>That they can't answer revisionist postings rationally?  That they feel
>>the need to harass revisionists?

>Ms. Sommer, could you possibly prove that is what is happening?? It
>would seem that from what I have observed, several net nazis have
>tried to disrupt servers and in general raise havoc. Again I would ask
>that you prove your assertion, either that or as usual the
>"revisionists" as you call them, I would prefer the term Holocaust
>denier, are probably getting wazooed by the white not bright crowd.

>>Some of the listserv sysops realize what is happening and don't like it. 
>>I've heard that they've passed on the headers of the 'subscribe' requests
>>to the intended addressees.
>>
>>This seems to be a new (or old?  I don't know) way to harass holders of
>>viewpoints opposed to the Holocaust.  Sickening and pathetic, I think.  I
>>thought I'd heard it all, but I guess not.
>No, I think that it is a way to harrass people in general, just
>because a few net nazis and Holocaust deniers get bombed because of
>their reprehensible notes, is hardly proof, a lot of people get
>bombed, again I would bet the white not bright crowd, due to a great
>degree of immaturity.
>_______________________________________________________________________
>Mr. Giwer is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
>interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
>plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
>accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
>see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
>they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
>conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
>integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
>respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to
>_______________________________________________________________________
>URL http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/g/giwer.matt

>P. GROFF
========
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Physical evidence
From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 1996 20:56:09 GMT

yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:

>  
>>      My "belief" is contingent upon physical evidence.  There is no 
>physical
>>  evidence of gassing.  
>  
>>      What can be more clear than that?  

>       A definition of what you consider "physical evidence" for starters.  You 
>have been asked several times and the sole response that I can remember is 
>that it is not eyewitness testimony.  You have yet to explain, for example, why 
>documentary evidence does not meet your standard.  Nor have you explained 
>why you reject out of hand evidence that there was a deliberate effort to destroy 
>such evidence.

>       Please note that I am not requesting an argument that convinces 
>anyone of the accuracy of you opinion but merely a clear statement of what it is.

        A smoking gun is usually considered physical evidence.

        How about one picture of bodies inside a gas chamber after gassing as
soon as the doors are opened?  How about about a long line of people
carrying bodies out of a building?  How about a picture of someone
pouring a can of something into a building from a hole in the roof?  

        How about any photographs of the actual gassing process that corresponds
to the "testimony" but excluding people in lines upon arrival and bodies
that do not indicate a cause of death?  How a significant fraction of
those 2000-3000 tons of bone fragments around A-B?  

        And if one wishes to invoke secrecy as a reason for no pictures then one
needs to produce specific orders against taking the kinds of pictures
that I describe.  There appears to have been no orders against taking
the kinds of pictures that have been produced which are excludable as
being nonspecific to the gassing issue.  

        Now you could go one step further and produce first the design
specifications for a large scale gas chamber, that means technical
specs, not simple drawings for inference, and then show the building you
folks have found in fact matches those specifications.  

        At one point I suggested physical descriptions that matched the layout
and construction of the building complexes that match the designated
buildings.  The best that were posted in response produced more
mismatches than they produced matches.  

        I have no idea what more to tell you folks about what constitutes
physical evidence.  It appears quite obvious to me.  

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