The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/g/green.richard.j/green.0197


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Thu Jan  2 05:46:03 PST 1997
Article: 90530 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: 1 Jan 1997 22:21:29 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 103
Message-ID: <5afk59$pdf@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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Mr. Moran is predictable as always and reposts his previous garbage:
(Jamie, can we stick this file somewhere?)

>	The following is are the "Final Remarks" of the report Mr.Green
>speaks.
>
>
>"Final Remarks"
>
>"The  present study shows that in spite of the passage of a
>considerable period of time (over 45 years) in the walls of
>the facilities which once were in contact with hydrogen
>cyanide the vestigial amounts of the combinations of this
>constituent of Zyklon B have been preserved. This is also
>true of the ruins of the former gas chambers. The cyanide
>compounds occur in the building materials only locally, in
>the places where the conditions arose for their formation
>and persistence for such a long time."
>
>
>>ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report
>
>
>                         ==================
>	As for the whole report, which can be located at the URL given by
>Mr.Green, the following is a summary of this report.
>
>As we can see from the tests, the agent HCN does not fair well
>under time and weather. Even after a limited flushing with distilled
>water and a months time, 100% of the agent can disappear.
>	So how do we explain the finding of any HCN after all these
>years and 100 feet of acid rain? We don't. No HCN was found, as is
>clear from the report. Only cyanide "compounds", "groups" or "ions"
>were detected.
>	Cyanide compounds are found naturally. Carbon and Nitrogen are
>relatively common elements that have a wide range of easy combatant
>capabilities with other elements and each other. Cyanide compounds can
>be found under a list of organic molecules. They can be organic
>constituents of life, and are in fact even produced by organic
>processes, such as fair amounts are found in cherry pits and Oleander
>leaves.
>	Nitrogen and Carbon are readily found in soils. Nitrogen is one
>of the major proportions of earth's air. Carbon and Nitrogen can
>combine with each other quite easily in geological, natural formats.
>CN, cyanide, can attach to a whole array of other elements and
>molecules and thus come under the heading "cyanide compound" or
>"group" with a full array of variations.
>	Chemical equations of various cyanide compounds are extensive
>and some show that when tests are done to detect Cyanides starting off
>with chemicals in a water solution the other side of the equation
>shows that even the H2O has been broken down and its components H and
>O reincorporated into something else.  	
>	Most likely whatever was found during these tests was probably
>CN compounds created within a short time from the time the samples
>were taken. New ones precipitate from the material like the white
>niter or ammonium nitrate that we can see under bridges and tunnels,
>or in caves, only to wash away and be replaced.
>
>	The report does not make any conclusions on why such radically
>different findings can be arrived at from the same room or even within
>a single piece of material, when we can suggest this is analogous to
>naturally occurring precipitous action that tend to congregate in
>patches, having found localized conditions for easy precipitation from
>within the interior of the structures material.
>	The report does not make a stab at explaining why such low
>traces were found in fumigation chambers, in some cases being zero,
>when we would expect to find high levels. Judging by photographs of
>still extent fumigation chambers, the interiors of these facilities
>have been protected from weather conditions.
>	On the other hand, the highest amounts of cyanide compounds
>found, outside of that detected in the Prussian blue stains in the
>fumigation chambers and the bathhouse, are those found in Crema I and
>II, and the amounts said to have been found in the cellar of "block
>11", all underground structures built of concrete, prone to dampness
>and thus prime places for the dynamics of precipitous deposit to
>occur.
>	No test were taken that would constitute 'background levels' such
>as samples from a few feet to a few hundred feet away, from the ground
>or other foundations and structural points in contact with the ground
>and subject to rain and wind blown material. The suggestion that
>samples from barracks, that were and still are covered over, protected
>from the elements, is legitimate source to take 'background levels' is
>corrupt or uneducated. 
>	Cyanide traces can be found in many natural locations. One method
>for the commercial recovery of HCN is from coke producing processes,
>coke being produced on a huge scale then and now. Most of the HCN
>produced in this extensively used coking process is given off in
>emissions into the atmosphere. The amounts of cyanide compounds found
>at Auschwitz, outside of Prussian blue, were incredibly minute.   
>
>	The Crakow Report does not prove, nor does it's "Final Remarks"
>claim, that any of the extremely minute amounts of cyanide compounds
>found originated from gassing.
>- 

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"Remember the days of yore,
"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
       -Deuteronomy 32:7


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Thu Jan  2 05:46:04 PST 1997
Article: 90559 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: 1 Jan 1997 21:48:00 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <5afi6g$pau@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References: <32d5f322.4040667@199.0.216.204> <5abqvh$klt@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <32cb6496.309777@199.0.216.204>
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In article <32cb6496.309777@199.0.216.204>,
tom moran  wrote:
>>

>>gas chambers at levels above background.  Deniers have no explanation for 
>>the presence of HCN in a facility built after the typhoid epidemic at
>>levels above background.
>
>	Background levels are sample readings taken of a general area to
>get an idea if any readings taken from a intended point of interest is
>not really just something that prevails generally but is peculiar to
>the point of interest. 
>
>	As the Random House Dictionary puts it under "background" - 6.
>"physics, the totality of effects that tend to obscure a phenomenon
>under investigation and above which the phenomenon must be detected."
>
>	Mr.Green's idea of this procedure is to compare the readings
>taken from areas subjected to one set of conditions against another
>area not subject to the same conditions. Basically readings from areas
>that are at ground level and were subjected to "100 feet" of acid rain
>as opposed to readings taken from inside barracks with the reverse
>conditions.

Mr. Moran, on the contrary implicitly acknowleges the presence of
cyanides in the homicidal gas chambers.  A presence that he denied in
his previous post.  Could Mr. Moran please document that 100 feet of
acid rain fell on the samples taken by the Crakow team?  This claim
appears to be unsubstantiated.

>	Mr.Green has failed to meet a previous challenge for him to get a
>endorsement for his claims from his collegues at the Chemistry Dept.
>he is associated with.

Mr. Moran has failed the challenge to do his own research through
publically available information.

>>It should be noted that the researchers used a calibrated method and that
>>they discriminated against Prussian blue whose origin is not clear.
>>Leuchter and Rudolf did not do so.
>>ftp://ftp.almanac.bc.ca/pub/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/post-leuchter.report  


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"Remember the days of yore,
"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
       -Deuteronomy 32:7


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Mon Jan  6 00:49:07 PST 1997
Article: 91285 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: 2 Jan 1997 16:32:00 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 15
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References: <32d5f322.4040667@199.0.216.204> <32cc64db.378488@199.0.216.204> <5afk59$pdf@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <5aghb3$6mi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <5aghb3$6mi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>,
Ken McVay OBC  wrote:

>Happy new year, old son :-)

Gracias, but you let the Nazis in on the secret, Dad... :-)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"Remember the days of yore,
"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
       -Deuteronomy 32:7


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Tue Jan  7 08:36:57 PST 1997
Article: 91563 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer: "Supporter of Free Speech"? HA!
Date: 6 Jan 1997 20:20:08 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
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Danny,

Aren't you posting from world.std.com?  

Talk, about Giwer's shoot-self-in-foot-routine.  I almost burst out
laughing.  I hope his complaint got all the way to the owner :-).

Regards,

Rich

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"Remember the days of yore,
"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
       -Deuteronomy 32:7


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Wed Jan  8 16:19:00 PST 1997
Article: 91814 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Witnesses say, "No Holocaust"
Date: 7 Jan 1997 12:17:33 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <5aub0t$519@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References: <32d0749d.20252601@news.dmsc.net> <5aqjdc$3mm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <32d1dab9.82918957@news.dmsc.net> 
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In article ,
Daniel Keren  wrote:
>cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) writes:
>
># An eyewitness account, with particular reference to "gas
># chambers" and cremation rates, etc., should be corroborated
># with forensic and scientific evidence. 
>
>There were forensic tests, as early as 1945, in which cyanide
>compounds were discovered on the walls and ventilation grills
>of the gas chambers.

Indeed, I quote Mr. Van Alstine:

"...the toxilogical analysis carried out in 1945
by the Cracow Forensic Institute on "4 complete plates and 2 damaged
ventilation orifices found in the ruind of Krematorium II?" The vents and
plates that were "subjected to two qualitative analyses, which established
the presence of cynaide compounds?" The report which was written oin
December 15, 1945, signed by Dr. Jan Z. Rodel, and tranmitted to the
Examining Judge Jan Sehn? (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.233.) 

_That_ kind of forensic report? "

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080
"Remember the days of yore,
"Learn the lessons of the generation that came before you."
       -Deuteronomy 32:7


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Thu Jan  9 21:20:06 PST 1997
Article: 92032 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leuchter and Nizkook Kentral
Date: 8 Jan 1997 17:56:45 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <5b1j8t$b46@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
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In article <32D04D57.60B4@ibm.net>, Gord McFee   wrote:
>Doc Marten wrote:
>> 
>>         One of the most amusing things to note is the Nizkook Kentral
>> condemnation of Leuchter for not being a scientist and the
>> pronouncements of non-scientists explaining science to those who are
>> scientists.
>
>Well put, Matty.  Whoever wrote it for you did a half decent job.  I
>would just like to point out that the main person to have condemned
>Leuchter was Leuchter himself, when he was forced to admit under oath
>that he had *lied* about his qualifications as an engineer, *lied* about
>having done work on gas chambers, *lied* about having worked for several
>U.S. prisons, and so on.  He had to admit that he was a *liar*.  Sounds
>like a common denier leitmotif.

Gord,

Is Mr. Giwer still here?  Hasn't he realized that he lost yet?  Is he
still trying to claim to be scientist?  I thought we had already
established his incompetence at high school chemistry.

Regards,

Rich



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Fri Jan 10 16:00:35 PST 1997
Article: 92074 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Haggadah Ceremony- Is This Liberalism?
Date: 10 Jan 1997 11:01:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92074 alt.politics.white-power:55303 alt.politics.nationalism.white:42927

In article <32D1CA13.2A18@eskimo.com>, Dana Booth   wrote:

>You're right to a degree. The constitution merely states that religion,
>or lack thereof, cannot be held as a litmus test.
>
>Article VI: ... "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and
>the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and
>judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States,
>shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but
>no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any
>Office or public Trust under the United States."
>
>This is the sole mention of religion in The Constitution. 'Seperation of
>Church and State' is a meaningless catch phrase. The leftists and
>Marxists have popularized this phrase until now most of the school kids
>in the country actually think it's part of The Constitution.

However, the first amendment to the constitution (which has equal
standing) reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or 
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, 
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to 
petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Of course this does not prevent religious people from participating in
democracy.

Regards,

Rich Green

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Sat Jan 11 07:22:04 PST 1997
Article: 92128 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Date: 9 Jan 1997 16:04:47 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 108
Message-ID: <5b412v$20i@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References:  <19970102204700.PAA22486@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <32d3597d.404467@199.0.216.204>
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In article <32d3597d.404467@199.0.216.204>,
tom moran  wrote:

>	We could take the word of it saying the "lethal concentration" is
>6%. 

Dr. Keren said that 6% is much more than the lethal concentration.


              M A T E R I A L   S A F E T Y   D A T A   S H E E T               
               CARBON MONOXIDE (SGP)                                            

================================================================================
                      SECTION I - Product Identification                        
================================================================================
 PRODUCT NAME:      CARBON MONOXIDE (SGP)
 FORMULA:           N/A
 FORMULA WT:        N/A
 COMMON SYNONYMS:   N/A
 
================================================================================
                       SECTION II - Hazardous Components                        
================================================================================
  NONE LISTED
================================================================================
                          SECTION III - Physical Data                           
================================================================================
BOILING POINT: -312.7F             VAPOR PRESSURE(MM HG): N/A
MELTING POINT:    N/A                              VAPOR DENSITY(AIR=1):  0.97
SPECIFIC GRAVITY: N/A                              EVAPORATION RATE:      NA
   (H20=1)                                            (BUTYL ACETATE=1)
SOLUBILITY(H20):  N/A                              % VOLATILES BY VOLUME: 100
APPEARANCE & ODOR:  COLORLESS GAS W/NO ODOR.
================================================================================
                  SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data                   
================================================================================
FLAMMABILITY CLASSIFICATION:  UNKN
FLASH POINT:     FLAM
FLAMMABLE LIMITS:  UPPER -  74.0 %      LOWER -  12.5 %
FIRE EXTINGUISHING MEDIA
  CO2/DRY CHEMICAL/WATER SPRAY
SPECIAL FIRE-FIGHTING PROCEDURES
  SELF CONTAIN BREATH APP W/FULL FACEPIECE OPER IN PRESS DEMAND/OTHER POSIT
  PRESS MODE;COOL CONTAINER W/WATER SPRAY AT MAX DISTANCE
UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS:
  MAY FORM EXPLOSIVE MIX W/AIR/OXYGEN/ALL OXIDIZING AGENTS;ELIMINATE SOURCES
  OF IGNITION;DON'T EXTING FLAMES;ALLOW FIRE TO BURN UNDER CONTROL
================================================================================
                        SECTION V - Health Hazard Data                          
================================================================================
EFFECTS OF OVEREXPOSURE:
  TOXIC & FATAL IN CONCENTRATIONS OF 0.4% IN AIR IN LESS THAN ONE HR EXPOSURE
MEDICAL CONDITIONS PRONE TO AGGRAVATION BY EXPOSURE:
  NONE
PRIMARY ROUTE(S) OF ENTRY: INHALE
EMERGENCY AND FIRST AID PROCEDURES:
  INHALE/FRESH AIR STAT/THEN ADMIN PURE OXY W/7-10% CARBON DIOXIDE-CALL DR STAT
================================================================================
                         SECTION VI - Reactivity Data                           
================================================================================
STABILITY:  STABLE                 HAZARDOUS POLYMERIZATION: WILL NOT OCCUR
CONDITIONS TO AVOID:    NA
INCOMPATIBLES:          NONE
DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: NONE
================================================================================
                  SECTION VII - Spill and Disposal Procedures                   
================================================================================
DISPOSAL PROCEDURE:
  CONTACT SUPPLIER FOR INSTRUCTIONS
OTHER PRECAUTIONS:
  EMPTY CONTAINER MAY BE HAZARDOUS;OBSERVE ALL PRECAUTIONS
================================================================================
                      SECTION VIII - Protective Equipment                       
================================================================================
VENTILATION:
  GENERAL MECHANICAL/LOCAL EXHAUST
RESPIRATORY PROTECTION:  NIOSH/MSHA APPROV AIR RESP IF NEC
EYE PROTECTION:          CHEMICAL SPLASH GOGGLES/SAFETY GLASSES
SKIN PROTECTION:         RESISTANT
OTHER EQUIPMENT:         SAFETY SHOES
HYGIENIC PRACTICES:      NONE
================================================================================
                 SECTION IX - Storage and Handling Precautions                  
================================================================================
SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS:
  AWAY FROM IGNIT SOURCES;USE CARBON MONOXIDE MONITOR AT ALL TIMES
================================================================================
          SECTION X - Transportation Data and Additional Information            
================================================================================
N/A
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(TM) and (R) : Registered Trademarks
N/A = Not Applicable OR Not Available
The information published in this Material Safety Data Sheet has been compiled
>from  our experience and data presented in various technical publications. It is
the user's responsibility to determine the suitability of this information for
adoption of necessary safety precautions. We reserve the right to revise
Material Safety Data Sheets periodically as new information becomes available.
Copyright by Manufacturer
LICENSE GRANTED TO MAKE UNLIMITED COPIES FOR INTERNAL USE ONLY
by OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY
.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Sun Jan 12 06:34:33 PST 1997
Article: 92411 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B / Carbon monoxide comparison
Date: 11 Jan 1997 15:37:17 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <5b987d$4rn@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References:  <5b412v$20i@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <32d73343.33308167@news.gte.net> <32d7eef1.3765419@news.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <32d7eef1.3765419@news.sprynet.com>,
Miloslav Bilik <100644.317@compuserve.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jan 1997 07:10:36 GMT, god@hyphenated.com (Elothem) wrote:

>>>Copyright by Manufacturer
>>
>>>LICENSE GRANTED TO MAKE UNLIMITED COPIES FOR INTERNAL USE ONLY
>>
>>>by OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY
>>
>>	Usenet is not internal use.  Please cancel all copies of this
>>immediately.  

The individual quoted by Mr. Bilik is correct for once.  I have
cancelled the article.

Regards,

Rich Green

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Sun Jan 12 19:40:40 PST 1997
Article: 214350 of control
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel <5b412v$20i@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
Control: cancel <5b412v$20i@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 11 Jan 1997 15:33:56 -0800
Organization: Stanford University
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <5b9814$4qi@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

<5b412v$20i@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> was cancelled from within trn.
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Mon Jan 13 07:14:16 PST 1997
Article: 92626 of alt.revisionism
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From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'll ask again: Why is Holocaust denial a "bad thing"? (Was: Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack)
Date: 11 Jan 1997 16:27:41 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <5b9b5t$50r@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References: <32dc833c.16541927@199.0.216.204> <5astgr$j1b@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <01bbffe6$33deeff0$4c7213cc@server>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <01bbffe6$33deeff0$4c7213cc@server>,
Anthony Sabatini  wrote:
>Mark Van Alstine  wrote in article
>...
>
>[snip]
>
>> The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
>> blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
>                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>I'll ask again: Why is "Holocaust denial" in and of itself a bad thing?
>Never mind the "anti-Semitism", which is clearly hate. This I can
>understand. But what about simple denial? Here you are clearly implying it
>is somehow morally and/or ethically wrong. Why?

It's wrong in the sense that claiming 2+2=3 is wrong, or that claiming
the ozone hole doesn't exist is wrong.  Deniers make claims that are
demonstrably untrue.  When people make such claims, it is natural to
wonder why.  In the case of deniers it is almost always because:

A) They are crazy.
B) They are grossly uninformed or misinformed.
C) They are virulent antisemites and perhaps even Nazis
D) Some combination of the above.

In the case of Mr. Moran, it is a combination of B and C, I believe.

Best Regards,

Rich Green
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080


From rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU Wed Jan 15 17:33:11 PST 1997
Article: 93059 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.Stanford.EDU!not-for-mail
From: rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Typical Nature of Holocaust Accounts
Date: 15 Jan 1997 10:28:55 -0800
Organization: Stanford University, CA 94305, USA
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <5bj7l7$a1c@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
References: <32d5e6a7.1267669@199.0.216.204> <19970109160000.LAA10748@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <01bc01b3$ed2770d0$597213cc@server>
NNTP-Posting-Host: d31rz0.stanford.edu

In article <01bc01b3$ed2770d0$597213cc@server>,
Anthony Sabatini  wrote:

>As a well-known and proven liar, anything that Mark Van Alstine says must
>be carefully examined for evidence of further mistruths. His virulent
>spewing of stupidity, the act of a mindless or merely ignorant person, is
>often laced with holier-than-thou statements and blatant 'my way or no way'
>assertions. For further evidence of Mark's asinine behavior, please check
>out DejaNews (http://www.dejanews.com) and/or AltaVista
>(http://www.altavista.com).

Mr. Sabatini,

Would you be so kind as to refer me to specific proof that Mr. Van
Alstine has lied.  Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Regards,

Rich Green
-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard J. Green                           Dept. of Chemistry
rjg@lyman.Stanford.EDU                     Stanford University     
http://www-leland.Stanford.EDU/~redcloud   Stanford, CA 94305-5080

"Tonya Harding is more powerful than Jesus; Michael Jackson is more
powerful than Jesus; three strikes and you're out will not save America.
YOU must save America."  -Soapbox Politician, White Plaza, Stanford.



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