Path: hub.org!hub.org!news.svpal.org!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: email@example.com (Mark Van Alstine) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Info about Irma Grese Message-ID:
References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> Organization: http://www.holocaust-history.org X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 236 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 19:53:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 18.104.22.168 X-Complaints-To: email@example.com X-Trace: news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com 932154827 22.214.171.124 (Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:53:47 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 12:53:47 PDT Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:556826 In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, email@example.com (Mike Curtis) wrote: > firstname.lastname@example.org (Vfirs0) wrote: > > >Well, I am sorry to say that holocaust writers have committed the same > >crime that was commited by the Germans that is misrepresentation of facts. > >Nowhere in the Belsen trial Irma Grese was accused of practicing Sadism by > >watching doctors performing sadist surgery on the patients as mentioned by > >the Raul's book. > > From the Belsen Trial: > > "When a prisoner of war is ill-treated by one of his guards, maybe due > to sadism, and if that person is an Allied subject who has come into his > hands by operations of war, then that is a war crime of precisely the type > that the Convention was made for." > > Next! Keeping the above mention of the SS guards' sadism in mind, consider the following in regard to Grese's psychopathic behavior: Twenty-seventh Day--Wednesday, 17th October, 1945 Irma Grese, cross-examined by Colonel Blackhourse... [...] Let me just put this finally to you, that you went into the Concentration Camp Service as a frightened young girl, according to your sister a cowardly little girl, and found yourself for the first time in a position to strike people when they could not strike you back? --Yes, it might have been that I was frightened as a child, but I grew up in the meantime. I suggest to you that you gloried in your jackboots and your pistol and your whip?--Gloried? I could not say so. And that you you beat ands ill-treated prisoners to such an extent that even you were told to stop carrying a whip, and that you continued to do it? --I have beaten prisoners, but I have not ill-treated them, and it was not prohibited for me personally to carry a whip. It was a general order emanating from the Kommandant that whips would not be carried any more. And I suggest to you that when you got to Belsen you asked to be allowed to stay there and continue your conduct right up to the time that you knew the British were coming intoi the camp? --If I had wanted to continue this behavior I would not have needed to ask permission to stay at Belsen. I could have continued to do so in the other camps. It was for quite a different reason. Source: Phillips, _The Belsen Trial_, pp.260-261. According to Brown: Not only was Irma Grese always dresed in immaculately and impressively tailored SS uniforms, whe also wore a silver-plated pistol that she frequently used. However, what set this guard apart from the others was her additional instruments of torture. One truly unique "accessory" was a semi-tenspaent, gleaming cellophane whip that she had fashioned out of material taken from the camp's weaving factory. While Grese protested at her trial that the whip was not used to hurt anyone, she admitted that its light weight was useful for her line of work. Grese also denied ever carrying a rubber truncheon in the camps, but eventually she did confess that despite an order by then-Birkenau Commandant, _SS-Hauptsturmführer_ Josef Kramer, to eliminate whips from use, she and other female supervisors continued to employ them. In her final arrest deposition, Grese admitted that she always had a whip and that she used it, along with an unauthorized whipping stick, consistantly [Grese's word] whenever necessary. Source: Brown, _The Beautiful Beast_, pp.49-50. According to Grese, "It was a very light whip, but if I hit somebody with it, it would hurt." (Cf. Phillips, _The Belsen Trial_, p.249.) According to Brown: Another "accessory" used by Irma Grese to torment prisoners was a "huge dog." A Russian inmate named Luba Triszinska (who was also known as Charlotte Klein) provided the Lüneberg court with a written deposition which stated that Grese used to ride a bicycle accompanied by a big hound. Triszinska reported that when women were to weak to keep up with the main column on the sixteen kilometer trek to work, _SS-Aufseherin_ Grese ordered her dog to attack these unfortunate creatures. As one might suspect, many of the victims of Grese's viscious attacks did not survive the ordeal. Source: Brown, _The Beautiful Beast_, p.50. >From the deposition of Helena Kopper: ..I was also in the punishment company and, during the time that Grese was in charge when working outside, we were employed outside the camp in the sand-pit. There were 700-800 women working in this company, some of them were detailed to dig sand and fill iron trucks with sand, and others had to push these trucks along a narrow guage railway. The place in which we worked was surrounded by a strand of wire about three to four feet high and we were not aloowied to go outside this wire boundry. There were twelve guards placed at intervals around the wire. It was the practice of Grese to pick out cerain of the Jewish women prisoners and order them to get something from the other side of the wire. She always worked with interpreters. When the prisoners approached the wire they were challenged by the guard, but as Grese picked out non-Germans, they did not understand the order and walked on and were shot.... Occasionnally a guard would not shoot but would force the prisoner to return to the working party. I myself was called as a witness at an enquiry which was held by the Political Department on a guard who refused to shoot prisoners which Grese had ordered to cross the wire. At the enquiry I identified the guard, who was handcuffed. In my presence the guard stated that the women were being worked too hardand that Grese was purposely sending them to the wire so that they would be shot. The next day the guard was on duty again and Grese had gone.... ..Whilst Grese was in charge of the working partiy she alsways carried a rubber truncheon. She was repsonsible for at least 30 deaths a day, resulting from her orders to cross the wire, but many more on occasions. It was always my job, ordered by Grese, to count the dead, and I, together with some other women, used to load the bodies into one of the railway wagons after working hours. The bodies were subsequently removed by ambulance. I know of two women who helped me on occasions; there names are Canina Stasicka and Karola Mikot. I saw them last on 8th June, 1945, in Belsen Camp. Both are Polish Aryans. Their Auschwitz numbers tatooed on their arms are 18.565 and 18.566. I do not know which of them had which number. Both had lived at Cracow. I know the name of one internee who was shot by a guard when ordered to cross the wire. It was Anna Gutterwiess of Czecrowies, near Cracow. In fact, I wrote to her son to tell him that his mother had died. It is possible that the orders to cross the wire were not in every case given by Grese, because the Kapos used to try it, but it is alsmost certain that Grese was responsible in almost every case. Source: Phillips, _The Belsen Trial_, pp.705-706. >From the deposition of Edith Treiger: ..In August, 1944, I saw this women Grese at Auschwitz shoot a Hungarian Jewiss who was aged about 30 years. I saw this incident from my block. At this time a transport of prisoners was arriving at the camp by train, and when prisoners arrived all prisoners in the camp were confined to their blocks. The Hungarian woman stood outside the block watching the transport arrive, when Grese approached the woman on her bicycle. She stopped, got off her bicycle, about five neters away from the woman, and shouted to the woman, "Get in your block." Then, without giving the woman an opportunity to go to her block, Grese produced a revolver from a holster she was carrying, aimed at the woman and fired. The woman fell to the ground and stayed there unconscious. Grese rode away on her bicycle, leaving the woman there. I saw all this occur from a distance of about 50 meters. After about a quarter of an hour the transport passed by and Grese dissapeared from view. I then went to the woman who had been and found that she had a bullet-hole through the left breast. I pulled her clothes open and saw the hole where the bullet had penetrated and left the body. There was a pool of blood on the ground and the woman's clothing was soaked in blood. The woman was dead. I am quite certain of this, as I put a mirror to the woman's mouth to test whether she was breathing and it did not cloud over. After satisfying myself that the woman was actually dead I returned to my block. No one else came to see the body at that time as we were still confined to out blocks. The body lay in the road for another hour and then other prisoners came out and carried the body away to a spot behind a hut and covered it with a blanket. I did not see the body after that. [...] I saw many selections in Camp C at Auschwitz and Grese was invariably present. At the smaller ones I have seen Grese sort out the weaker women and send them off for removal to the gas chamber. I have also seen Grese beating women prisoners at the camp every day, sometimes with her hands, sometimes with a rubber stick and sometimes kicking them. Source: Phillips, _The Belsen Trial_, p.689-690. According to Brown: Survivors Isabella Leitner and Olga Lengyel have documented Grese's bisexual escapades, the latter noting that "Grese" often had homosexual affairs with prisoners - which was a _major_ violation of the Race and Resettlement Act ( a matter of _Rassenschande_) - and then had the potential incriminating participants killed. Dr. Gisella Perl observed that "Grese" relished whipping well-deloped young woman and the breasts, which eventually became infected. Once this occurred, Perl, the inmate doctor, would be ordered to operate and Grese would become sexually aroused just watching the woman's suffering. No anesthetic was used and the victim would scream in agony throughout the procedure. Equally sickening testimony was also presented at the Lüneberg Trial. In laying out its case, the prosecution gave the court eye-witness testimony that "this 100-pound German girl invented new methods of torture. One of them: she waited until a pregnant woman was ready to give birth, then tied her legs together and watched the agony. Source: Brown, _The Beautiful Beast_, p.48. >From _Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary of the English Language_: psychopathy - n. 1 a mental disorder in which an idividual manifests amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experiance, etc. 2. any mental disease. sadism - n. 1. Psychiatry. sexual gratification gained through causing pain or degredation to others. Cf. masochism. 2. any enjoyment in being cruel. 3. extreme cruelty. Clearly, Grese's behavior fully meets both definitions. Mark -- "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but right through every human heart--and all human hearts." -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
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