The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/van-alstine.mark/1996/van-alstine.1196


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  1 16:38:58 PST 1996
Article: 78170 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 01:27:34 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <55c43v$rk7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on28 Oct 1996 (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >> I do not think that it is possible to continuously
> >> run the crematoria
> >> furnice without burning out the chimney 
> >>or damaging the
> >> ovens.  Pressac mention this as happening to K.IV and K.V.
>                 [VanAlstine's stunning admission]
> >Krema IV and V suffered from design flaws 
> >to their 8-muffle furnace. Krema
> >IV was permanently disabled due to this, 
>
>      Readers please make note of this important fact.
>    **By May 18,1943 Krema IV was premanently disabled***

And your source for this is, Mr. Allen? 

> 
> >while Krema V's furnace was
> >modified and returned to service. 
>
>      Actually, this is an overstatement.  

No it is not, Mr. Allen. Krema V's furnace was repaired after it was
mothballed and before it was returned to service to take part in Aktion
Ho"ss.

> Pressac feels
> that the operation of Krema V is uncertain but
> makes a guess that 15,000 were cremated in it
> in 1943.  

As to the operation of Krema V: 

"The testimonies we have are very evasive about the state of the furnace
and about what happened to Krematorium V between the middle of 1943 and
the beginning of May 1944. Handed over to the camp administration on 4th
April 1943 and operational as from 18th April, Krematorium V was no doubt
the only one in service fropm mid-May until 25th June, the date on which
Krematorium III was handed over. Krematorium II was not back in service
until 12th July 1943. As Krematorium V had to handle all cremations for a
period of alsmost two months, it's furnace must have suffered accordingly,
whith the appearance of <>, the same causes producing the same
effects. However, as it was used more moderately it was still
semi-operational when it was mothballed at the end of June or the
begininning of July 1943." (Pressac, _Technique_, p.386.)

Sounds to me, Mr. Allen, like Pressac is pretty certain that Krema V was
operational and that it was mothballed.

"In preparation for the Hungarian extermination, the SS had Krematorien II
and III iverhauled at the end of April 1944. Overwhelmed by the influx of
transports, they tried at the beginning of June to bring Kremrorien IV and
V back into service. They failed with Krematorium IV, but were partly
successful with Krematorium V. Even though its furnace worked as it had
done earlier, it was not able to rapidly cremate the batches of victims
turned out by its gas chambers. It was SS Master Sergeant Otto Moll who
took the initiative of digging five small open-air cremation ditched
behind Krematorium V, between its north wall and drainage ditch L1. The
unconsumed bones had to be smashed to powder, crushed with sledge hammers
on a steel plate, another of Moll's inventions [David Olere portrayed this
practice in a sketch. See document 12a]." (Ibid. p. 389.) 

Sounds to me, Mr. Allen, like Pressac is pretty certain that Krema V was
operational for Aktion Ho"ss and that its furnaces worked.


> Thus, there is a two or three month period in
> 1943 when:
>     Krema I was abandoned, permenently 
>     Krema II was out of service,
>     Krema III was not yet complete,
>     Krema IV  was abandoned, permenently 
>     Krema V may or may not have been working.
> All this is very odd if your believe in Exterminationist
> theories.  

How is that, Mr. Allen? 

It proves exactly what I have asked before...

How is that, Mr. Allen? 

> Why build millions of RM worth of crematoria which
> break down when you have the proven Treblinka 
> "pit method" to use for free????  

Beacuse the Nazis were expecting to murder and incinerate far more than a
million Jews at Auschwitz? Maybe the Nazi planned to eventually ship _all_
the remaining Jews who hadn't been worked to death to Auschwitz to be
exterminated? Auschwitz, lest we forget, being located in Upper Silesia,
was ideally situated amidst an abundant supply of coal as well as having
excellent rail access. 

> In the alternative, if Crematoria were so important,
> why abandon Krema I and IV?

Krema I was in the main camp, Mr. Allen. It was also on its last legs,
suffering from prolonged overuse. When the Kremas in Birkenau came on-line
the incineration capacity was more than suffient to handle the corpses of
those who died in Auschwitz I as well as those who were murdered in
Birkenau. The SS simply shipped the corpses from Auschwitz I to Birkenau
for disposal. 

As to abandoning Krema IV, there wasn't a whole lot of choice, Mr. Allen.
Due to inferior refractory materials, along with overuse, the furnaces
cracked to such an extent that they were irrepairable. The altrernatives
were simple: replace the furnaces or halt the incinerations at Krema IV.
The Nazis chose to halt the incinertions because the incineration capacity
of the rest of the Kremas was sufficient to handle the number of
transports during 1943 and early 1944. Only during Aktion Ho"ss did the
influx of victims overwhelm the Kremas. This incineration undercapcacity
was solved by the use of incineratin pits at Krema V and bunker 2. 

> >Krema II suffered from several initial
> problems: 
> 
>      Sure did, was shut down.

Indeed. Krema II was shut down for about a month and a half to repair its
chinmney and flues. After the repairs were completed Krema II resumed
homicidal operations. All in all, the Nazis managed to murder several
hundred thousand people in Krema II. 

> >> The operating cycle of the Kremas.
> >> I believe that a furnice, once fired-up, takes an 
> >> hour to warm to operating temperature, and then can 
> >> operate for a period of several hours (I guess 12-14)
> >> without damaging the interior of the chimney or the
> >> muffles.  
> 
> >According to Topf "it is not harmful to operate the 
> >incinerators day and night, if required, since the fire 
> >clay lasts longer when an even oven
> >temperature is maintained." 
> >(cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, >pp.71-72.)
>   
> Mark, please read what Pressac writes on page 379 of
> Technique about the summer of 1943:
> Kr.II had to be shut down with a damaged chimney...

Mr. Allen, please note that in Krema II it was the _chinmey_ that was
damaged and not the _furnaces_. The reason for the damaged chimney was
because Topf initially used the plans for the (square) replacement chimney
to Krema I as a model for Krema II's chimney. Unfortuantely, for Topf, the
different thermal expansions and high temperatures produced was not
correctly taken into account. Therefore, as "the strain on the furnaces
was colossal," the chinmey was damaged. New calulations were then made and
the chimney was properly repaired. (cf. Ibid. 244.)  

Do you have some difficulty, perhaps, Mr.Allen, in discerning between a
chimney and a Topf triple-muffle furnace? Sure seems like it. 

> ...IV was completely out of service and V had its furnaces 
> and/or chimney burnt out.
> On page 386 Pressac writes: Krematoriam IV
> had been in operation for one or two weeks...
> 1. The furnace was starting to crack.
> 
> In short, exactly what I said.  
> Czech and _Auschwitz Chronicle_ is wrong. 

Mr. Allen, how exactly is Czech wrong? I would note that the Topf memo
that stated "it is not harmful to operate the incinerators day and night,
if required, since the fire clay lasts longer when an even oven
temperature is maintained," was made in regard to _non-defective_ Topf
(double-muffle) furnaces! One can hardly hold up the clearly DEFECTIVE
(8-muffle) furnace of Krema IV as evidence of being Czech being incorrect!

Mr. Allen, given that the refactory materials (i.e. fireclay) in the
furnace of Krema IV was sub-standard, your using Krema IV's
decommissioning as "evidence" that Czech is wrong in that the furnaces of
the _other_ Kremas cannot be used continuously is rather dishonest. Doubly
so as the _Auschwitz Chronicle_ (pp.627,633) later reveals:



MAY 16 [1944]

The first long block arrest for prisoners is ordeed in Auschwitz II. Three
freight trains arrive in the track connection; they are the first RSHA
transports of Hungarian Jews. The arriving Jews are ordered to unload
their luggage; thereafter they are to stand in rows of five and are led in
the direction of the crematoriums. From this night on the chimneys of the
crematoriums begin to smoke.

[...]

MAY 25 [1944]

The resistance movement in the camp states in its regular report that the
number of Hungarian Jews killed already amounts to over 100,000, and the
work shifts of the SS men involved in the extermination operation is 48
uninterrupted hours follwed by ans eight-hour break.

[...]



Clearly, Mr. Allen, the furnaces in the other Kremas, as well as the
Sonderkommando and the SS, were working continously at that time. This is
months _after_ Krema IV's defective furnace had broken down, causing its
decommisioning. Such conclusions are further supported by Ho"ss:

"During the whole period up until 1944 certain operations were carried out
at regular intervals in different countries, so that one cannot speak of a
continuous flow of incoming transports. It was always a matter of four to
six weeks. During those four to six weeks two or three trains containing
about 2,000 persons each, arrived daily. These trains were first of all
shunted to a siding in the Birkenau region and the locomotive then went
back. The guards who had accompanied the transport had to leave the area
at once, and the persons who had been brought in were taken over by guards
belonging to the camp. 

"They were there examined by two S.S. medical officers as to their fitness
to work. The internees capable of work at once marched to Auschwitz or to
the camp at Birkenau, and those incapable of work were first taken to the
provisional installations, then later to the newly constructed
crematoria." (Crankshaw, _Gestapo: instrument of tyranny_, pp.191-192.) 

> Overuse of the
> Krema (not even continual use but 140 hours straight)
> will and did destroy the Krema.  It did it with THREE
> of the FOUR Kremas when they first started opperation.

Clearly, Mr. Allen, up until Aktion Ho"ss in 1944, the furnaces were not
operating continuously, day in and day out for months on end. They were,
instead, operated at regular intervals of a few weeks duration. There are
168 hours in a week, Mr. Allen. Assuming that the furnaces were operating
20 hours a day that would mean 140 hours of operation per week. Kremas II
and III operated like this from the end of 1943 to April of 1944, when
they were temporarily taken off-line for maintenance in preparation for
the commencement of Aktion Ho"ss in May of 1994. 

And in spite of this, Mr. Allen, the furnaces of Kremas II and III were
NOT, as you dishonestly claim above, destroyed by periods of continous
use. Even when, in Aktion Ho"ss they _were_ (over)used continously for
several months. 

> Were the Kremas REBUILT????  NOOOO.  

Why _should_ Krema IV have been "rebuilt," Mr. Allen? Kremas II and III
handled the murder and disposal of the Jews just fine until Aktion Ho"ss
started. To refurbish Krema IV would have required a brand-new 8 muffle
furnace. Considering that the reason for Krema IV's failure was the use
sub-standard materials due to WARTIME SHORTAGES, I would argue that the SS
obviously concluded that there was no point in replacing the furnaces when
the replacement furnace would _also_  likely be made from sub-standard
materials due to WARTIME SHORTAGES. 

> Krema II and III were just operated according to 
> schedule, ie. shut down regularly.  

And your evidence that Kremas II and III were regularly shut down for
maintenance is? During what time periods? 

(I should point out to you. Mr. Allen, that I'm in agreement somewhat with
you in that it is certainly possible that the Kremas could have been taken
off-line from late 1943 until the start of Aktion Ho"ss for periodic
maintenance. I have provided a source to support my assumption: Ho"ss.
You, on the other hand, simply babble on without providing any
substantiating evidence whatsoever. I hope you will correct your
deficiency and promptly provide your evidence....) 

Or will you yet again defer to my arguments? 

> Perhaps "Day and night" does not mean continously here;
> the emphasis is on even temperature.  

 

More specious word games, Mr. Allen? How typical. It is obvious that what
was meant was that the (non-defective) furnaces could be operated
continously for long periods of time without damage. 

And they did. 

> As I posted, it is a rapid temperature change which everybody knows
> causes the most damage.  

Actually, Mr. Allen, it was the temperature _differential_ between various
parts of Krema IV's furnace that caused uneven expansion, which was
further exacerbated by sub-standard materials, that eventually caused
cracks in the furnace.

> The furnaces could be run
> in various weather if the temperature remained 
> constant but running them for more than a day or two
> would and did cause failure of the chimney.

Mr. Allen, the _chimneys_ of Kremas III, IV and V never failed, nor were
damaged by overuse. Just Krema II's. This was due to improper design and
was subsequently corrected. Your claim that running the furnaces "for more
than a day or two
would and did cause failure of the chimney" is quite dishonest of you.
Especially as you do not offer even the slightest shred of evidence to
support such a false claim. 

It seems, Mr. Allen, such dishonest antics have become your stock-in-trade. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  1 17:06:09 PST 1996
Article: 78177 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:20:44 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
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References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>
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In article <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> Late last night, while standing in the backyard, I heard
> a feindish, manical laughter comming from the direction of Tampa.
> I _ know_ it was Giwer! 

Okaaaaay....

> Look for a new iteration, an improved version of Giwer.  He's
> got something up his sleve...

His gonads? 

> You guys run him off for a couple of days and look what happened.

Indeed. He gets get's to hunt for yet another ISP. It's like musical
chairs: Sooner or later the chairs run out. 

> Did you think he would not return?

Actually, I could care less. I've had him killfiled for months nows. 

> Giwer achieves his goals, I'm sure.

Indeed. He proves he is an unmitigated ass in need of some serious mental
therapy. He should be committed. He's that sick. Seriously. 

And _you_ approve of this guy? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  2 09:31:25 PST 1996
Article: 78243 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 01:45:44 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <55c4gm$rop@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on28 Oct 1996 (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >> At that point, it has to be shut down for
> >> a period of time to cool off, perhaps two or three
> >> days.  The cooling is not the real problem
> >> but cracking due to too rapid a cooling.  
> 
> >The Topf operating instructions for the 
> >double-muffle furnace simply
> >states that: "Every evening, the furnace fire bars 
> >must be cleaned of
> >clinker and the cinders removed." 
> >(cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.136.) There
> >is no mention that the furnace _must_ be 
> >shutdown and cooled off before
> >routine maintenance takes place. 
>     Every evening?  
> 
> >Furthermore, according to Dr. Roman Dawidowski,
>  >the furnaces of the crematorien required a break of 
> >three hours per every thwenty-four to
> >allow for deslaging and other smaller 
> >stoppages due to constant use.
> >Similar time requirements were also given 
> >by Sonderkommandos Henry Tauber,
> >ALter Feinsleiber, and Stanislaw Kankowskin 
> >[KL-PMO, p.134]. (cf. Ho"ss,
> >_Death Dealer_, p.45fn.) 
> 
> Alright, every 24 hours a three hour break was required.
> So the furnace couldn't have run more than 24 hours.

Mr. Allen, nor did it mean that the furnaces were, as you incorrectly
claim, "shut down for a period of time to cool off, perhaps two or three
days." It meant that for a few hours the incinerations were stopped while
the _hot_ furnaces were tidied up. Afterwards, the incinerations could
continue on. For all practical purposes, the furnaces _were_ ran for
continously for sustantial periods of time. 

> > If the furnices was not run continously, the bodies
> > had to be collected until the furnice was fired-up.
> 
> >Why, Mr. Allen? Considering the incineration 
> >capacity of just _one_ of the
> >Kremas, it would have been a simple 
> >matter to have whichever Krema was
> >on-line that day incinerate the _entire_ "
> >daily" batch of prisoners who
> >died from "natural" causes. 
> 
> The key is your assumption 
> "whichever Krema was on-line that day to
> incinerate the entire daily batch of prisoners who
> died from "natural" cause.
>     IT WAS NOT PLANNED TO KEEP ONE OF THE
> KREMAS "ON-LINE" EVERY DAY.... 

And your evidnece for this is, Mr. Allen? What? No evidence? How typical. 

...If that were planned they would NOT have needed the Leichenkeller.

You are quite right, Mr. Allen. Given the incineration capacity of Krema
II, and that the dead from "natural causes" could be disposed of without
the _need_ to store them in a morgue for days before they were
incinerated, the SS _didn't_ need to use the L.Kellers as morgues! They
instead used them as a homicidal gas chamber and an undressing room. 

I'm _so_ glad we agree on this. 

> The Leichenkeller were built underground
> to serve as a cool place to store bodies:
> (they make a bad gaschamber but a good morgue)
> They are inherently a contradiction to the idea
> of continous cremation (and therefore mass 
> extermination).  

Interesting then, is it not, Mr. Allen, that L.Keller 1 of Krema II was
equiped to be HEATED with hot air from the motor room that was next to the
chimney? Now, as you say, morgues should be kept cool. Therefore, given
that L.Keller 1 was to have been HEATED, it could not have been a morgue. 

I'm _so_ glad we agree on this too. 

> We know that the Leichenkeller were designed and built.

Indeed we do, Mr. Allen. We also know they were used as homicidal gas
chambers and undressing rooms for the victims. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  2 09:31:26 PST 1996
Article: 78260 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: question for D. Keren
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 06:19:38 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <55bng0$l99@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> 
> > >Gaskammern.jpg
> > >Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
> > >(Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.
> >
> >   What's this document? I've take a look and the image is very pale,
> >  nowere I saw the word 'gaskammer' in the typewritten part and the
> >  handwritten part is illisible. If you don't have an equivalent that
> >  you can send here, preferably in english but at least typewritten,
> >  it's hard to call that a proof of anything whatsover.
> 
> >Mr. Beaulieu you might look at the timeheet for March 2, 1943, from Riedel
> >& Sons, who were involved in the construction of Kremas IV and V. Item
> >five (5) on the timesheet one can PLAINLY AND CLEARLY see:
> 
> >"...betonieren im Gasskammer" [concrete in gas chamber]
> 
> >cf. Pressac, _Technique_; Photo 25, p.446.
> 
> >And again, on the daily report for March 2, 1943, one can PLAINLY AND
> >CLEARLY see:
> 
> >"und Fußboden betonieren im Gasskammer" [and concrete floor in gas chamber]
> 
> >cf. Pressac, _Technique_; p.447, Photo 28 [line 28] and Photo 30 [line
1] p.450.
> 
> 
>  I wont be able to see A.T.O. before december, however, this 2 march 1942
>  correspond to a date that I have in one of my books: In one of Faurrisson's
>  book, a reference to a concrete floor in a gas chamber is done, but he
>  add 'one must take a look at the locksmithing register (Schlosserei) to see
>  that it is a delousing gas chamber. 

Mr. Beaulieu, please be so kind as to provide the pertinent passage and
the complete citation. This should not be too burdensome since, as you
say, you have the book. 

Needless to say, I trust your "interpretation" about a far as I can spit. 

>  It sounds like the same document you quote. Without an explicit location of 
> this 'gas chamber' in the krema 4 building, you may, as Pressac, try to fool 
> anybody with such false evidence.

Mr. Beaulieu, you are about as bad a liar as Faurrisson is. Krema IV never
had a delousing gas chamber. The only Zyklon B delousing gas chambers that
existed in Birkenau were, to my knowledge, located in BW 5a and BW 5b.
(The Zyklon B delousing chamber of BW 5a was replaced, probably in
mid-1943, by two hot-air disinfestation chambers. [cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, p.53.]) 

>  However, since I've not access to all the documents, I can hardly start a
>  long discussion on this. 

Considering how transparent your lies are, Mr. Beaulieu, that is quite
fortunate for you!

>   But since Pressac didn't even present this as a
>  'proof' 4 years later in 'Les crematoires d'Auschwitz' while he had, in
>  appearence, something far much stronger than a document about 10 gas testers,
>  a document that say explicitelly a gas chamber (not in connection with a
>  krema) there's certanly a reason for that, and I think that Faurisson is
>  right and that other documents show that this letter refer to an Entwesumg
>  skammer rather than an homicidal gas chamber. Otherwise, the fact that he
>  dropped it as a proof can be hardly explained.

Nope, 'fraid not, Mr. Beaulieu. Time for you to to go back to your book of
lies and see what other whoppers Faurrisson has cobbled together.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  2 12:08:57 PST 1996
Article: 170296 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  2 14:26:13 PST 1996
Article: 78286 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Nazis, SHARPS, Rash and all other political dorks
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 02:00:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <55bptk$bve@knot.queensu.ca> <55e35b$5kn@cabernet.niagara.com> <327A6208.4934@rio.com> <55ge3o$cs6@cabernet.niagara.com>
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In article <55ge3o$cs6@cabernet.niagara.com>, sparta@niagara.com (Andrew
Apollo) wrote:

[snip]

> Well chuck, I'd like to know what YOU contribute to society!
> Perhaps YOU may be a waste of space! Are YOU viable chuck?

> I myself am an engineering student along with my involvment in the Racialist 
> movement. 

And you consider _that_  as being socially viable? ROTFL! 


> By saying that Skinheads are a waste, YOU imply that YOU are an
acceptable use 
> of space. 

Yes. 

> I'd like YOU to qualify that. What makes YOU so 
> usefull?

Well, I can't speak for Chuck, but any man who has fought for _my_ country
is pretty viable to me!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  2 23:15:34 PST 1996
Article: 78316 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 00:19:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 192
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References:  <55g0d8$8ph@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55g0d8$8ph@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Brian Harmon wrote on 1 Nov 1996 
> (Ceacaa) wrote:
> >>The Leichenkeller were built underground
> >>to serve as a cool place to store bodies:
> >>(they make a bad gaschamber but a good morgue)
> >>They are inherently a contradiction ito the idea
> >>of continous cremation (and therefore mass 
> >>extermination).  
> 
> >And yet, the corpse chute in the Leichenkeller 
> >was _removed_ and annotated in the plans.
> 
> Wrong.  The chute was built.   It didn't show in Bauleitung
> drawing 2003.   The removal was not annotated.  
> Pressac writes in Technique pg. 303,
> "This drawing was made at a time when work
> was well advanced...The stairway was built,
> as can be seen in the ruins, but the corpse chute
> was also built..."
> Again on pg. 304,
> "The corpse chute was built in Krema III and
> can still be seen in the ruins."

Mr. Allen, your intellectual dishonesty is showing again. Pressac _also_
writes, on page 302:



Bauleitung drawing 2003, drawn by Dejaco himself, is of the utmost
importance in the evoliution of the plans for Krematorium II and marks the
transition from a <> crematorium fitted with a corpse chute
supplying three underground morgues to an <> complex that cannot
fit any logic other than criminal.

The new arrangement of the basement shows the following modifications as
compared with drawings 932, 933, and 1311:

1. The double door of Leichenkeller 1 now opens outwards (it had been
realized that it would be impossible to open the doors of the gas chamber
if they opened inwards, as in the origional design.

2. The corpse chute has been eliminated (a vitalpoint, implying that since
this was no longer required the Leichenkeller could no longer be morgues
in any normal sense, or else that the <> arrived on foot!)

3. The installation of an acess stairway leading directly from the north
yard of Krematorium II to a basement antechamber between th goldworking
room and the associated office, and then to the junction between
Leichenkeller 2 and 1. The western access stairway direct to Leichenkeller
2 was not yet planned [the first mention of it found in the PMO Bauleitung
files being dated 26th February 1943], so that the stairs drawn by Dejaco
became the ONLY POSSIBLE ACCESS to the Leichenkeller, through which
<> had to pass. Repacing a chuite designed to take corpses by an
ordinary stairway defies all logic - unless the future corpses entrered
whikle they were still living and could walk down the stairs. But if the
basement was being filled with live people, what could the function of the
<> be? 



Furthermore, Mr. Allen, your dishonesty becomes paramount, by your
selective quoting, when you claimed:

> The removal was not annotated.  
> Pressac writes in Technique pg. 303,
> "This drawing was made at a time when work
> was well advanced...The stairway was built,
> as can be seen in the ruins, but the corpse chute
> was also built..."

...And:

> Again on pg. 304, "The corpse chute was built in Krema III and
> can still be seen in the ruins."

When Pressac is fully quoted we see:

"...This drawing was made at a time when work on Krematorium II was well
advanced and the main structure was completed, so only part of the
modifications were actually realized in the building. The stairway was
built, as can be seen in the ruins, but the corpse chute was also built,
no doubt because it was already in place when drawing 2003 was made. At a
later date, in order to avoid the lower end of the chute interfering with
the passage of victims of Leichenkeller 2 to Leichenkeller 1, the chute
was enclosed behind a wooden wall." (Pressac, _Technique_, p.303.) 

...And:

"The corpse chute was built in Krematorien III and can still be seen in
the ruins. As in Krematorium II, it was closed off by a wooden wall
(Bauleitung order 10/4/43, completed by the DAW workshops on 14.4.43). The
chute being hidden in this way explains why, for example, it is absent
>from  the memory of the former Sonderkommando member David Olere in his
sketch of corpses being etracted from the gas chamber [Document 85] and
his plan of Krematorium III drawn immediately after his return to France
[See Author's Postface]." (Ibid. p.304.) 

Clearly, Mr. Allen, you have lied by ommision in trying to offer your lame
Nazi apologia as to why the homicidal modifications to Kremas II and III
were _not_ a clear indication of the homicidal intent of the Nazis. As
usual, your amaturish duplicty simply causes you to trip over your lies
and fall flat on your face. 

Mr. Allen, the implications of such modifications to the L.Kellers are
crystal clear: "Keeping the chute meant that if necessary the Krematrorium
could easily return to a <> facility. By eliminating it
completely, Dejaco clearly revealed that the role of the building was no
longer to create people dying in the camp, but to cremate people dying on
the spot..." (Ibid. p.303.) 

> >Why remove a corpse chute from a morgue, thereby
> >making it even harder to get corpses into the 
> >Leichenkeller?
> >Simple, because 'the corpses' walked themselves into
> >the leichenkeller before they were gassed.
> 
> In both K. II and III the chute was built but may have
> been closed off by a wooden (removable) wall.

They most certainly were, Mr. Allen: "Bauleitung order 10/4/43, completed
by the DAW workshops on 14.4.43."

> Corpses were first brought into Leichenkeller 2,
> the room nearest the central Camp Road.  There they 
> were undressed, checked for valuables, and other
> wise "processed".  

And how were these "corpses" brought into L.Keller 2, Mr. Allen? 

> They were then carried into
> Leichenkeller 1 (which served as cool storage).

Why would these "corpses" be carried from one "morgue" to another, Mr. Allen? 

> When the furnaces were ignited the corpses were
> lifted from the basement to the level of the
> crematoriam  by a small elevator (Aufzug).  
> There was no need for a "corpse chute" into L.Keller 
> 1 from the second level.  

Mr. Allen, you are either supremely ignorant of the fact that the corspe
chute was ment to EASILY put corpses INTO the L.Kellers from the exterior
groudlevel, or you are simply being obtuse out of sheer dishonety. Given
your already evidenced dishonsty, I suggest you are simply being obtuse. 

Furthermore, Mr. Allen, you dishonestly gloss over the glaring fact that
to CARRY corpses down a stairway into the L.Kellers was for more time
consuming, burdensome, and inefficient than to simply pull up a cart (or
truck, etc.) next to the ground level antechember where the corpse chute
was and simply slide the corspes down into the vestibule below, where they
would have been dragged into one of the L.Kellers. 

> It would have caused problems
> warming the Leichenkeller during the summer
> so it may have been blocked.

How lame, even for you, Mr. Allen. 

The entrance to the corpse chute was to have been from a vestibule inside
the Krema that was accessable from the outside. (cf. Bauleitung drawing
2197, p. 306.)  There is no reason to believe (especially as hot air
rises) that the corpse chute, if it were to have been completed, would
have warmed the L.Keller. This becomes self-evident when looking at
Bauleitung drawing 1311, which shows the chute to end in the vestibule
_bewteen_ the L.Kellers, which, lest we forget, were equiped with door.
The same vestibule, lest we forget that contained the corspe lift that
went to the stifling hot furnace hall. (cf. Ibid. p.294-295.) 

> Thus, chute WAS built...just didn't show on a plan.

BZZT. Sorry, Mr. Allen, that's not true. The corspe chute is shown on
Bauleitung drawings 1311 and 2197. The corspe chute was removed in
Bauleitung drawing 2003, and a stairway added.  

> What this all really shows is how desperate
> Exterminationists are for some sort of evidence
> of homicidal intent.

Actually, Mr. Allen, what this shows is that you are a liar and a
Holocaust denier. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 09:23:30 PST 1996
Article: 78455 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Future of the Internet -- fascism or schism?  ENGLISH NAZI PIGZ
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:41:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References: <54i3i1$t8c@jerry.loop.net> <54j85k$95l@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <54i3i1$t8c@jerry.loop.net> <54j85k$95l@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <327BBA5D.46D0@anthem.cc.utkm.edu> <55jsbu$id8$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55jsbu$id8$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <327BBA5D.46D0@anthem.cc.utkm.edu> - Sat, 02 Nov 1996 21:17:17
> +0000Terry Antczak  writes:
> 
> [6 zillion newsgroups trimmed]
> 
> :>Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> :>> 
> :>> In article <54j85k$95l@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, mayhan@ix.netcom.com(BILLY
> :>> HARRIGAN) wrote:
> :>> 
> :>> Mr. Harrigan:
> :>> 
> :>> I'm sure your Mommy is very proud of your ability to make pictures.
> :>> 
> :>> Now please take then somewhere where they are relevant. alt.revisionism is
> :>> NOT the place.
> :>> 
> :>> Sara
> :>
> :>
> :>Sara I'll bet you are one really hot babe, do you fuck?
> 
> Grow up, barfbag.

He will, as soon as his balls drop....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 09:23:31 PST 1996
Article: 78456 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:14:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <55bd4f$i8q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55c4gn$roq@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55kjvg$npo@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55kjvg$npo@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >The question boils down to how long can a furnace
> >be run continually.  The Exterminationists MUST
> >believe in long or continous runs-Revisionists 
> >probably expect short runs of two days or less.
> 
> And if there are no long runs:  the Holocaust claims crumbles.  
> 
> >This argument avoids the basic point:
> >The Leichenkeller are inherently a contradiction 
> >to the idea of continous cremation (and therefore mass 
> >extermination).  
> 
> Exactly.  This is an obvious point, one from which the public can draw
the obvious conclusion.  You have adeptly used Mark Alstine's myriad of
purely speculative polemics as mere soundboards for several revisionist
points that an objective person can find compelling.   Excellent job, Mr.
Allen.

Indeed! A most excellent job! (And it _is_ Mr. Allen's job, it seems.)
Truly, I would be hard pressed to find a better denier to match my wits
against! Though, come to think of it, considering the "quality" of Mr.
Allen's "arguments," I suppose the three-stooges could fill in....

Still, that is head and shoulders above Mr. Smith's rabid diatribes. A
monkey with piles, typing on a keyboard, would be just as productive.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 09:23:32 PST 1996
Article: 78461 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:07:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References:  <55jq5i$mk6@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55kje7$npo@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55kje7$npo@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >Mark Van Alstine wrote 01 Nov 1996
> 
> >     HERDING PEOPLE INTO AN UNDERGROUND SHOWER
> 
> >>Not too hard when armed soldiers 
> >>with attack dogs are doing the herding.
> 
> Why were "unacceptables" shipped and then "gassed."  

To kill them, Mr. Smith! Do pay attention. 

> Certainly they could have been shot and processed on site and then the rest 
> transported.  

Indeed they could have. In fact, it was tried a few times. The Nazis found
out that it was easier and more efficient to ship them off to the killing
centers and mass murder them there. Especially at Auschwitz which not only
had huge cremtorien at the Birkenau extermination camp, but also had
extensive labor camp infrastructure at Aischwitz I, Monowitz, and their
satellite camps. 

> Shipping unaccaptables to be merely gassed is ridiculously inefficient.  

Rail transport is ridiculously cheap. 

> > How do you reconcile your description which emphasizes
> >force with the above actual survivor eyewitness accounts 
> >which clearly state that the victims were tricked into the
> >gaschamber?  
> 
> There is no HOPE of reconciling these contradictions.  Only a sleazeball 
> Nizkor jack-in-the-box like Van Alstine would even ATTEMPT such prevaricative 
> contortions.

Argumentum ad hominem. Yet more evidence of Mr. Smith's moral and
intellectual bankruptcy. The poor Nazi can't even answer a few simple
questions without falling back on gratuitous insults instead! 

Do your owners at the National Alliance know you are out of your kennel,
Mr. Smith?

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 09:53:48 PST 1996
Article: 78465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suggestion for a Title for the Criminal Giwer
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:52:33 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com> <55jhu6$kvk@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55jhu6$kvk@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> 
> >  Yes, I am a free speech advocate.  But show me, John, where did I
> >  endorse Giwers methods? 
> 
>         In this post.
> 
> 
> >  John, the killfile tactic didn't work - Giwer got around it and won.

Really? It's worked rather well for me! I haven't directly seen hide nor
hair of the Giwer-swine for months.

> >  His forgery strategy didn't work - you won. And so it will continue,
> >  tit 4 tat.  

Indeed. Only for as long as the Gier-swine can find an ISP.... 

> Giwer took you all on, single handedly!
> 
>         And lost.

Profoundly too. 

> But since you are so fond of his illegal and improper tactics perhaps 
> you would like to propose a title for him.  "Lord of the Flies" has been 
> taken. Would you accept "King of the Cockroachs?"

ROTFL! 

Personally, taking into consideration the Giwer-swine's photograpgh, 
I think "Guru of Grubs" is more fitting. };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 12:37:56 PST 1996
Article: 78479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.perot,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Jews, Blacks, Hispanics SMARTER than Whites!
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:59:46 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <3NOV199608361887@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:106689 alt.revisionism:78479 alt.politics.perot:62816 talk.politics.misc:500275

In article <3NOV199608361887@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>,
dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:

[snip]

>     Oh, you are a power ranger.  Sorry for making inteligent observations
>     above.  I hadn't realized until now you were such a weenie.

Excellent post! Listening to the WPR rant about "white" whatever is so
boring. Glad you took the time to point out the vast uncharted space
between Mr. Davies's ears....

Mark 

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov  4 15:39:42 PST 1996
Article: 78493 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The importance of Hoess?
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:30:32 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References:   <326f87c5.25303639@news.srv.ualberta.ca>  <54ts71$kk4@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article <54ts71$kk4@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, Ken McVay OBC wrote:
> >
> >Please tell me, Mr. Kreiberg, precisely who - beside yourself
> >and your denying friends - cites Hoess' confession as "some of
> >the best evidence of the Holocaust?"
> >
> The massmedia.

Who is this "massmedia" and where can this claim by "massmedia" regarding
Ho"ss be found? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 06:58:47 PST 1996
Article: 78542 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:34:22 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 196
Message-ID: 
References:  <55ha1j$omf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55ha1j$omf@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote 02 Nov 1996
> (Ceacaa) wrote:
> >> The question boils down to how long can a furnace
> >> be run continually....  
> 
> >Obviously, for at least four to six weeks! 
>    Six weeks!  As I said...
>  ...The Exterminationists MUST believe in long or 
> continous runs if their stories are going to hold 
> together.  
> The question is... can a crema furnace
> run six weeks straight?  I doubt it. 

>     [snip VanAlstine's equivocations]
>     [snip VanAlstine's ramblings about UFO's]

You "doubt it." How quaint, Mr. Allen. You doubt, therefore it must be
true; is that the game you are playing? What happened to providing
evidence for your "doubts?" Where are the memoranda, letters, documents,
testimonies, etc that corroborate your "doubts?" You don't have any? Oops.
Instead, you evade the issues and make unsuopoported "speculations."
Typical. Yet you wish people to take your "doubts" as cannon? Uh huh. Your
hypocrisy is showing again, Mr. Allen. 

> >> The Leichenkeller are inherently a contradict 
> >> the idea of continous cremation (and therefore mass 
> >> extermination).  
> 
> >See what I mean? Weird.   
> 
> You are avoiding the question, Mark.

Hardly, Mr. Allen! Your unsupported and specious "doubts" ARE weird, and
as such don't really warrant a serious answer. 

> Why build four underground morgues if there is a
> system of continous cremation?  We all await 
> your answer 

To whit:

"In the second week of October, shortly after he had begun work on
Birkenau, Bischoff realized that the existing crematorium of the
concentration camp (later to be known as crematorium I) would not be able
to service the prisoner-of-war camp. It had been designed a year earlier
to service an inmate population of 10,000. Bischoff summoned Kurt Pru"fer
of the Erfurt firm Topf and Sons, which had supplied the incinerators of
crematorium I....

"Pru"fer arrived in Auschwitz on Tuesday, October 21, and joined Bischoff
in a teo-day design charette.... As to the location of the crematorium
[Krema II], the men decided that it made sense to build it in the main
camp: Birkenau promised to be only a temporary camp, and it would be a
waste of money to build a relatively expensive structure such as a
crematorium (the whole building Bischoff budgeted for RM 650,000) on a
site that was going to revert to farming a few years later. (Gutman,
_Anatomy_, p.139.)

That's clue #1, Mr. Allen: Krema II was designed to be the crematorium for
Auschwitz I and the Birkenau POW camp. (Note also that it was origionally
intended to be built in Auschwitz I.)

"...Topf also got the the job of providing  Buchenwald with a crematorium.
There the camp authorties had first raised the need to install an in-house
incinerator in June of 1938, when the camp went through a period of very
rapid growth. Topf got the Buchenwald contract on the basis of a fixed
version of the mobile Dachau model which, at a base price of RM 7,753, was
even cheaper than that model. Added to the base price, however, was an
extra RM 1,250 for a reinforced draft in the chimney. The result was one
muffle per 5,000 inmates and an investment of  RM 0.90 per inmate. In 1940
Pru"fer was also given the job of building a double-muffle incinerator in
the new concentration camp at Auschwitz for RM 9,000. That is one muffle
per inmate and an expense of RM 0.90 per inmate. Yet this furnce was 50
percent more powerfuul than the Dachau model of 1939. Taking this into
account, we can say that it counts as a three-muffle oven of the old
model. Hence I will designate its capacity as that of three "units," this
is, one unit per 3,333 inmates. A second double muffle (three-units)
furnace ws soon added alongside the first. The total was now four muffles
(six units) for a camp of 10,000; that is one unit per 1,666 inmates.
Total investment for incinerators was now RM 1.67 per inmate.

"If we compare these numbers with figures for the Birkenau crematorium, it
becomes apparant that, assuming that the camp was indeed going to be
comopleted and filled to capacity, the sequence of five three-muffle
furnaces was _not_ and excessive proposition. In other words, neither
Bischoff nor Pru"fer anticipated in October 1941 the very high motality
rate of the prisoners of war that actually occurred. With a capacity of 15
muffles or 22.5 units for 125,000 inmates, we come to 1 unit per 5,555
inmates, that is less than a third the capcity of Auschwitz I, and very
much in line with Dachau and Buchenwald. At an investment it cost
one-sixth that of the main camp. These figures suggest that the mortality
rate for the Soviet prisoners of war was expected to be the same for
concentration camp inmates in the Reich, and less than that for the Polish
inmates in the concentration camp on the other side of the tracks...."
(Ibid. pp.141-142.) 

That's clue #2, Mr. Allen: Birkenau, origionally envisioned with just
Krema II, would have had an incineration capacity in line with
concentration camps such as Buchenwald and Dachau.

"A last point that seems to support this conclusion is that as the
mortality rate of the prisoners of war began to rise, the plans for the
camp were chamged. In December 1941 Bischoff ordered the creation of a new
master plan, which was completed in the first week of January 1942 (fig
20.). Two of the most striking elements of this plan relate directly to
the catstrophic conditions. First, it changed the barracks in BA II and BA
III from the origional brick to the prefabricated wooden huts that had
been designed as horse stables for the Army.  As these could be erected
with a minimum of labor, it implied a significant reduction in the
mortality that had occurred with the construction of the brick barracks.
Furthermore, at the western edge of BA II and BA III a new zone was
designated which was to include two auxillary crematoria and 10 corpse
cellars. The plan was approved on January 6, 1942, and a few weeks later
Pru"fer returned  to Auschwitz to discuss the incinerators to be used....
As these were to be built in addition to the large crematorium to be
constructed in the main camp [Krema II], the investment in incinerating
capacity had risen to a total of RM 46,542, or RM 0.37 per inmate. With a
capacity of 31.5 unts, the unit-per-inmate ration had risen from 1,5,555
to 1,4000." (Ibid.) 

That's clue #3, Mr. Allen: "two auxillary crematoria and 10 corpse cellars." 

"These numbers seem more evolutionary than revolutionary, yet there is
another difference from the origional plans that gives the whole picture,
at least at first sight, a more sinister aspect: the 10 enourmous corspe
cellars. In the crematorium already under design [Krema II] the total
volume of the two major morgues (a small third one was used only for
'adminstrative purposes') was a little over 50,000 cu. ft. Its capacity
was 420 corpses, or roughly 1 corpse per 300 inmates. In comparison,
Sachenhausen had a morgue capcity of 1 corpse per 50 inmates. The plan of
January 6 added another 250,000 cu. ft., to arrive at Suachenhausen's
capacity of 1 corpse per 50 inmates. In short, this sixfold amplification
was meant only to bring the morgue capacity of the camp in line with that
found in other concentration camps, and does not yet suggest the
industrialized murder that was provisionally initiated in the spring of
1942. The large morgues point to a high contingent mortality, with
relatively long periods to incinerate the corpse afterwards. It is
significant in this context to note that two and a half years later, as
the exterminatin peaked in the so-called Hungarian action, the camp had an
incineration ratio which was, at 1:1160, 4.5 times that projected in
October 1941 (based on an actual capacity of 80,000 inmates and an
official capacity of 46 muffles, that is, 69 units), while it virtually
had no morgue capacity. It pointed to a different kind of death. If the
plan of January 1942 suggests the anticipation of a sudden rise in
mortality as the result of epidemics, with periods of relatively low
mortality in between, then the situation in 1944 suggests a steady and
high mortality as a result of murder, controlled through selection. The
plan of January 1942 reveals, in the end, a lethal environment, while the
situation of 1944 must be explained as a result of lethal technology.
(ibid. p.144.)

"Yet 6 of the 10 morgues and the two small crematoria were taken out of
the design seven weeks later" and the "crematorium [Krema II] that had
been intended for the main camp was now to be built in Birkenau." (Ibid.
p.144-145.) 

That's clues #4 and #5, Mr. Allen: "the camp had an incineration ratio
which was, at 1:1160, 4.5 times that projected in October 1941" and that
"6 of the 10 morgues and the two small crematoria were taken out of the
design." 

Have you figured out my answer yet, Mr. Allen? It's quite simple, really:

You are being intellectualy dishonest in the extreme, Mr. Allen, with your
specious drivel about the Leichenkellers of Kremas II and III. Birkenau's
ersatz "morgue" capacity was _far_ below that of other concentration
camps, while its incineration capacity was higher. The picture this paints
is indeed sinister. 

> >> >                     Why UNDERGROUND.
> > >>      Since a body might wait several days before 1,200
> > >> bodies were collected, it would have to be stored in 
> > >> a cool place, UNDERGROUND.  
> >>  The Leichenkeller was insulated with air-tight  
> >> doors 
> 
> >Uh huh. Amazing then, is not Mr. Allen, how all 
> >those "potato cellars" in the Mid-West manage 
> >to keep cool in the summer without air-tight doors? 
>
> Mark, I hope you know the difference between 
> a potato and a body.

You are avoiding the question, Mr. Allen. As usual.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 06:58:48 PST 1996
Article: 78544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:36:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>  <55ebv2$r7s@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <327c161b.3113149@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <327c161b.3113149@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> Think he'll listen?. . . Nah.

Naaahh. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 06:58:49 PST 1996
Article: 78545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:38:26 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com>  <327c1609.3095463@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <327c1609.3095463@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:20:44 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >  [snip]
> >And _you_ approve of this guy? 
>
> There you go again Mr. Van Alstine.
> I did not say I approve of Giwer.

Mr. Caprenter, the use of a question mark generally denotes, well, a _question_.

> Glad to see that you cleaned up your act.
> More meaningful posts with less invectives. Thanks.

My pleasure, Mr. Caprenter. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 06:58:50 PST 1996
Article: 78549 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:42:16 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

[snip]

> I revisited the site a few days ago and saw his new additions. While I
> have no knowledge of air photo analysis, I am a trained flight
> observer with many hours of SAR, I do  know 'shadows.'  
> This new evidence is quite relevant and deserves investigation. 
> Who doctored the photos, when and why?

And your evidence that these photos were doctored is, Mr. Carpenter? The
word of a "photo intepreter" who can't even identify the electrified
perimeter fence of a Krema correctly? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:08 PST 1996
Article: 78584 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 22:11:11 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 59
Message-ID: 
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>  <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>  <327f6abf.4734644@news.zippo.com>
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In article <327f6abf.4734644@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:36:49 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
> >Carpenter) wrote:
> >

[snip]

> >> The only information I have is located at www.air-photo.com
> >> Mr Ball is not the only air-photo intepreter around.
> >
> >In other words, you have no evidence. You _were_ relying on the word of
> >Mr. Ball, a Holocaust denier who can't even identify the electrified
> >perimeter fence of a Krema correctly! 
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, these photos are at Nizkor and various books
> also. 
 
Ah, but Mr, Caerpenter, the issue is not about the photos themselves, but
about the INTERPRETATION of those photos. The origional photos used by
Ball are from the National Archives. Ball's dishonest "interpretation" of
them resides soley in Ball's publications. 

Big difference. 

That you try and ignore this self-evident fact, Mr. Carpenter, speaks ill
of your intentions. 

> >> The more the merrier. I would love to see multiple
> >> opinions from professionals. 

Indeed. And do you consider Ball a professional photo reconnainssance analyst? 

I don't. 

> >For starts, Mr. Carpenter, try:
> >
> >_The Holocaust Revisited: A Retrospective Analysis of the Auschwitz
> >Extermination Complex_, Dino A. Brugioni and Robert G. Poirier. Central
> >Intelligence Agency (ST-79-10002), 1979
> 
> Thanks.

Your're welcome. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:10 PST 1996
Article: 78587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 22:48:43 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 73
Message-ID: 
References: <55jttg$oe3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55maqo$ej4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55maqo$ej4@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 03 Nov 1996 
> 
> >Furthermore, Mr. Allen, you dishonestly gloss 
> >over the glaring fact that
> >to CARRY corpses down a stairway into 
> >the L.Kellers was for more time
> >consuming, burdensome, and inefficient 
> >than to simply pull up a cart (or
> >truck, etc.) next to the ground level 
> >antechember where the corpse chute
> >was and simply slide the corspes down 
> >into the vestibule below, where they
> >would have been dragged into one of the L.Kellers. 
> 
> Oddly enough, this was an argument that I raised
> as a disadvantage of an UNDERGROUND gas chamber.

Sliding the corpses down the corpse chute is a "disadvantage" over
_carrying_ them down?! How so, Mr, Allen? 

> Herding people into an underground "shower" and
> getting the bodies up to the crematory level.

And?

> How do you claim all the bodies were moved?

By the Sonderkommando of course. 

> Are you going to claim that the
> Aufzug (corpse lift)was a powerful mechanism capable 
> of moving a fifty bodies at a time? 

Are you? 
 
> How many bodies do you claim were sent up
> the little elevator shaft?  250,000, 350,000
> 450,000?

How many do you claim, Mr Allen?

> Was the "aufzug" (corpse lift) designed to handle
> two or three bodies at a time or 50-100 bodies?
> What does Gutman say? 

Pressac writes that Bischoff ordered from Topf "a temprary elevator with
1,500 kg of portative force for crematorium III (968 RM), and two permanet
elevators for crematoria II and III (9,371 RM each). (Gutman, _Anatomy_,
p.227.) 

Furthermore, Pressac writes: "...The task of finding a temporary elevator
for crematorium III and permanent ones which would not break down inder
the expected heavy work load was given to Topf, as it was presumed it
would be easier to find them in Thuringia. Indeed, Pru"fer quickly found
what Bischoff needed. A firm in Erfurt, Gustav Linse, provided a goods
elevator woith 750 kg of portative power, which could be raised to 1,500
kg by doubling the cables...." (Ibid.) 

If we assume an average victim weight of 60 kg that would mean 25 bodies
at a time on the _temporary_ corpse lift. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:11 PST 1996
Article: 78603 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 02:29:36 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 153
Message-ID: 
References: <55maqo$ej4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <19961105151700.KAA10698@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961105151700.KAA10698@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[snip]

> Under the new figures of one million or less
> for Auschwitz vs. one million for Treblinka this
> old picture does not fit. 

Mr. Allen, may I ask for _your_ sources for the death tolls you cite? Mine
say that the latest estimate for the death toll at Auschwitz is between
1.1 million and 1.5 million dead (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, pp.71-72) and
that for Treblinka is between 700,000 and 850,000 victims (cf. _Historical
Atlas of the Holocuast_, p.92). 

> Further, Treblinka allegedly killed people much faster.  

I think not, Mr. Allen:

Lest we forget, Gerstein observed that it took some 2 hours and 49
minutes, due to a breakdown of the diesel ebgine that supplied the lethal
exhaust, to kill 750 Jews in the four "Heckenholt Foundation" gas chambers
at Treblinka. Furthermore, Gerstein observed that once the diesel engine
finally started, it took 32 minutes to kill _all_ the victims in the gas
chambers. (cf. Roques, _Confessions_, p.23.) 

This is further supported by Ho"ss, who writes that he was told "that the
performance of the engines was not always strong enough to kill everyone
in the chambers. Many of them were only unconscious and had to be finished
off by shooting them. I had heard the same story in Chelmno, and I was
told by Eichmann that these problems had occurred in other places."
(Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.43.) 

In constrast, Ho"ss wrote that: "Experiance had shown that the prussic
acid called Cyclon B caused death with far greater speed and certainty,
especially if the rooms were kept dry and airtight with the people packed
closely together, and provided they were fitted with as large a number of
intake vents as possible. So far far as Auschwitz is concerned, I have
never known or heard of a single person being found alive when the gas
chambers were opened half an hour after the gas had been poured in."
(Ibid.) 

Claims to the greater effectiveness of Zyklon B over CO exhaust are
supported by the observations of Ho"ss and other eyewitnesses: 

Ho"ss: "...Those standing next to the air shaft were killed immediately. I
can state about one-third died immediately. The remainder staggered about
and began to scream and struggle for air. The screaming, however, soon
changed to a gasping and in a few moments everyone lay still. After twenty
minutes at the most no movements could be detected...." (Ibid. p.44.) 

Nyizli: "...The granulated substance [Zyklon B] fell in a lump to the
bottom. The gas it produced escaped through the perforations, and within a
few seconds filed the room in which the deortees were stacked. Within five
munites everybody was dead." (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.51.) 

Broad: "...Grabner looked looked with the interest of a scientist upon the
second hand of his wrist watch. Cyclon acted swiftly. It consists of
cyanide hydrogen  in solid form. As soon as the tin was emoptied, the
prussic acid  escaped from the granules. One of the men , who
participated  in the bestial gassing, couldnot refrain from lifting, for
the fraction of a second, the cover of one of the vents and from spitting
into the hall. Some two minutes later the screams became less and less and
only a groaning was heard. The majority of the  gassed had already lost
consciousness. Two minutes more and Grabner stopped looking at his watch.
There was complete silence...." (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p. 176.) 

> If you NOW compare Treblinka with Auschwitz/Birkenau, Treblikna
> comes out as a faster, more effective, easier to establish and a cheaper 
> method of mass murder. 

Faster? Hardly. The actual gassing process wasn't fasterthan at Auschwitz.
See above.

More effective? Hardly. Given that between 700,000 and 850,000 people were
murdered at Treblinka over approximately a two-year period, one can hardly
call this more effective in sheer numbers than Auschwitz, which in about a
two and one-half year period, killed between 1.1 million and 1.5 million
people. 

Easier to establish? Both camps were built in regions occupied and
controlled by  German military forces. 

A cheaper method of mass murder? As to the direct cost between Zykon B and
diesel exhaust I can only point out that the per capita cost to kill with
Zyklon B was around 0.02 RM. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.215; Roques,
_Confessions_, p.94.) Perhaps, Mr. Allen, you could inform us as to the
per capita cost of killing with deisel exhaust? 

As to the aggregate per capita costs of the camps? Again, I can only point
out that the construction budget for Birkenau was some 7.7 million RM (cf.
Gutman, _Anatomy_, pp.119). Perhaps, Mr. Allen, you will inform us as to
the actual costs of building the Reinhard camps? 

Comapring the cost of building Birkenau with the value of the plunder
taken from the victims murdered there, we see the value of the stolen
assets far exceeded construction costs. As I pointed put previously, the
plundered Jewish assets from Aktion Ho"ss alone would have paid for
Birkenau many times over. Auschwitz made made an enourmous profit for the
SS -as did the Aktion Reinhard camps.

Again, I can only point out that the value of the plundered assets and
labor accrued from the opertion of the Aktion Reinherd camps and Auschwitz
are roughly equal. Given that it is estimated that Aktion Reinherd claimed
between 1.7 million and 2 million lives, and that Auschwitz claimed
between 1.1. million and 1.5 million lives, and that Auschwitz was both a
labor and extermination comlpex, claiming that it was less efficient (or
even more efficient for that matter) is irrelevant. 

The facts are, Mr. Allen, that the Nazis built the Aktion Reinhard camps
and the Nazis built the concentration and exterminiation  camps at
Auschwitz. This is indisputable.  Between these two sets of camps, the
Nazis murdered about three million people. This too is indisputable (by
moral and rational people). 

BTW, it should also be noted that nearly all the victims were Jews. 


> Treblinka and Auschwitz were equally "secure" 
> locations from a secrecy point of view.  In fact, since 
> it was small and unconnected with any Buna plants, 
> a Treblinka style location would have less subject 
> to the aerial scrutiny that Monowitz invited.

Perhaps. Of course, the Allies didn't pay any attention to Auschwitz until
the "Oil War" bombing campaign in Upper Silesia was undertakien in
mid-to-late 1944. 

> The point here is that, theft of victims personal
> property aside, Mr. VanAlstine's  concept of 
> "economies of scale" does NOT seem to apply to the
> present day stories of Treblinka and Auschwitz/Birkenau
> as killing centers.  The Treblinka method was clearly
> more economic.

Then please. Mr. Allen, lay out your figures and cite your sources like an
honsest person would. Saying "Because I Say So!" (ad nauseum) and stamping
your feet doesn't make it so. 

Oh, I forgot. You're a Holocaust denier and honesty is an anathema to
Holocaust deniers and Nazi apologists.... 

Silly me. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:11 PST 1996
Article: 78605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Wed, 06 Nov 1996 02:35:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References: <4zeVoOev1e1T065yn@login.dknet.dk> <55mfb3$dsp@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55mfb3$dsp@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
> 
> >   This solution may not be practicable in regard to the USA. The USA should 
> >  be divided into several independent ethnic countries which gradually
should 
> >  be made ethnic homogenous. (Through the exchange of the population)
> 
>         You are an amazing little animal, nazi boy.  This might come as
a schock 
> to you but, by and large, Americans are quite happy with out country.

Indeed. That is why so people left Europe to get here. 

>         Please do your nazi routine about your own country.

Yes, please. There's already plenty dog poop in the parks without Mr.
Kreiberg's "contributions."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:12 PST 1996
Article: 78610 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 18:46:33 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References:  <55jtso$ode@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55kgva$npo@is05.micron.net>
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In article <55kgva$npo@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >>Why would these "corpses" be carried from 
> >>one "morgue" to another, Mr. Allen? 
> >    Leichenkeller 2 was a working room 
> >where the corpses were undressed, searched.
> >Leichenkeller 1 was kept cooler for dead storage.
> 
> Imagine Leichenkellers being used as Leichenkellers! That COULDN'T have
been so!  

Indeed Mr. Smith. Imagine HEATING a "morgue" to keep the corspes "cooler
for dead storage!" Amazing. 

>...We know everything the Germans did was only "code word" for something
else....
 
Wow. I didn't know that. What did the code word for Operation Barbarossa
mean, Mr. Smith? The the peaceful resettlement of the East? 

> (Those wily Germans).

Indeed! Saying things to trick people! How dare they!

> Why it had to have been so!  Otherwise, the Holofraud simply won't SURVIVE if
> ordinary uses aren't replaced with extraordinary and irregular ones.  

Oops, there you go again, Mr. Smith, foaming at the mouth. Tsk tsk. Wipe
your chin little boy. 

> Never mind there is no physical evidence for these irregular and patently 
> absurd claims.

There's plenty of phyical evidance, Mr. Smith. Your evsasions, however,
are what are patantly absurd. So absurd and infantile that you just can't
be taken seriously. 

I'm sure the National Alliance is, er, "proud" of you, Mr. Smith. I know
_I_ am! You are single-handedly convincing the multitudes that you
neo-Nazis are truly a bunch of soft-in-the-head loons with nothing better
to do than whine about the Holocaust and play old polka songs. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov  5 17:45:13 PST 1996
Article: 78611 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 18:57:31 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 103
Message-ID: 
References: <55bd4f$i8q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55c43v$rk7@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55kirs$npo@is05.micron.net>
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In article <55kirs$npo@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> >>while Krema V's furnace was
> >>modified and returned to service. 
> 
> >     Actually, this is an overstatement.  Pressac feels
> >that the operation of Krema V is uncertain but
> >makes a guess that 15,000 were cremated in it
> >in 1943.  
> >      Thus, there is a two or three month period in
> >1943 when:
> >    Krema I was abandoned, permenently 
> >    Krema II was out of service,
> >    Krema III was not yet complete,
> >    Krema IV  was abandoned, permenently 
> >    Krema V may or may not have been working.
> 
> >All this is very odd if your believe in Exterminationist
> >theories.  It proves exactly what I have asked before,
> >Why build millions of RM worth of crematoria which
> >break down when you have the proven Treblinka 
> >"pit method" to use for free????  
> 
> Van Alstine provides nothing but typical evasive dribbling on this point.  
> The pointremains as another refutation to the fraudulent claim of non-stop 
> crematory use.

Argumentum ad hominem. The point remains, Mr. Smith, that I have offered a
detailed rebuttal and it is met with- nothing. Sounds like "your" side is
shooting blanks again, Mr. Smith. 

> >    In the alternative, if Crematoria were so important,
> >why abandon Krema I and IV?
> 
> >>According to Topf "it is not harmful to operate the 
> >>incinerators day and night, if required, since the fire 
> >>clay lasts longer when an even oven
> >>temperature is maintained." 
> >>(cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, >pp.71-72.)
> >  
> >Mark, please read what Pressac writes on page 379 of
> >Technique about the summer of 1943:
> >Kr.II had to be shut down with a damaged chimney,
> >IV was completely out of service and V had its furnaces 
> >and/or chimney burnt out.
> >On page 386 Pressac writes: Krematoriam IV
> >had been in operation for one or two weeks...
> >1. The furnace was starting to crack.
> 
> Gee! Well that throws the "night and day crematory operation" claim of the 
> Holofraud straight on its ass!

Hmm. From the above, Mr. Smith, I can only conclude that you have a severe
reading disability and/or that you are a terrible liar.

Kremas II and III operated from mid 1943 until late 1944. Much of that
time was spent in "night and day crematory operation."

> >In short, exactly what I said.  
> >Czech and  _Auschwitz Chronicle_ is wrong. 
> >Overuse of the
> >Krema (not even continual use but 140 hours straight)
> >will and did destroy the Krema.  It did it with THREE
> >of the FOUR Kremas when they first started opperation.
> >Were the Kremas REBUILT????  NOOOO.  
> >Krema II and III were just operated according to 
> >schedule, ie. shut down regularly.  
> 
> "The strain on the furnace was collosal!" at only 140 hours straight.   So 
> much for "endless crematory use."  

Indeed. That the Kremas were incenerating corpses for over 20 out of 24
hours a day, for four to six weeks at a time, _can_ seem rather endless,
I'm sure. 

> And so much for the grandiose Holocaust 
> claims about the "non-stop use of ovens".  

Indeed. That the Kremas were incenerating corpses for over 20 out of 24
hours a day, for four to six weeks at a time, _is_ a rather "non-stop use
of ovens", I'm sure. 

> Poor "holocaust" dupes like Van 
> Alstine can only attempt to explain the irregular and the unlikely with
naught 
> more than baseless speculation.  No sale.

Argumentum ad hominem. The point remains, Mr. Smith, that I have offered a
detailed rebuttal and it is met with- nothing. Sounds like "your" side is
shooting blanks again, Mr. Smith. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov  6 07:53:52 PST 1996
Article: 78620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 02:15:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 177
Message-ID: 
References: <55bd4f$i8q@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55c4gn$roq@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55c4gn$roq@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

>  [VanAlstine]
> >As for incinerations when the "special actions" 
> >took place? According to
> >Ho"ss, the special actions took place at 
> >regular intervals: [snip]
> >During those four to six weeks two or three trains
> >containing about 2,000 persons each, arrived daily. 
> 
> >Clearly, up until Aktion Ho"ss in 1944, 
> >the furnaces were not operating
> >continuously, day in and day out for months 
> >on end. They were, instead,
> >operated at regular intervals of a few weeks duration. 
> >This, of course, would have afforded the 
> >Auschwitz SS time to schedule and undertake
> >repairs and any maintainance that required 
> >the furnaces to be cold.
> 
> >Given the above, may I again suggest you 
> >rethink your "theory," Mr. Allen? 
>
> As show above, running a furnace for a week straight
> will burn it out...

Uh, Mr. Allen, were in the above does it say that "running a furnace for a
week straight will burn it out?" It doesn't. You lied. Tsk tsk. 

> -the quote has things cooking for 4 to 6 weeks straight.  

And? 

> Including periods of time when only Crema V might have been working
(summer of '43)

And? 

> The question boils down to how long can a furnace
> be run continually....  

Obviously, for at least four to six weeks! 

> ...The Exterminationists MUST believe in long or continous runs...

No, Mr. Allen, what makes the conclusion that the furnaces were ran
continously for long periods is the convergence of the evidence. If the
convergence of the evidence pointed to short periods, I would be equqlly
compelled to conclude that the furnace were ran only for short periods. 

You, on the other hand, offer nothing but usupported conjecture and denier
dogmatism to salve your battered ego that it is otherwise. Next you'll be
holding your breath, to make people agree with your bizarre
rationalizations,  until you turn mauve or something.... 

> -Revisionists probably expect short runs of two days or less.

Deniers also belive that there is Nazi UFO base at the South Pole. Or that
corpses explode when placed in a crematory furnace. Or that L.Keller 1 was
used to make coal gas. Or that Jewish corpses can't be incinerated in the
open air while "Aryan" corpses can. 

In other words, Mr. Allen, deniers "expect" quite a few weird things to be
true. You, I might add, are no exception.... 

> This argument avoids the basic point:
> The Leichenkeller are inherently a contradiction 
> to the idea of continous cremation (and therefore mass 
> extermination).  

See what I mean? Weird. 

> > >> Even the local crematoria "collects" the bodies 
> >> for a day or two before "firing up".  And the local
> >> plant must deal with the constraints of dealing
> >> with the public.
> >What "public" was their at Birkenau, Mr. Allen? 
> 
> None.  That is why bodies could sit around longer
> prior to a convient time to cremate them.  

And how long was this, Mr. Allen? 

>> >                     Why UNDERGROUND.
> >>      Since a body might wait several days before 1,200
> >> bodies were collected, it would have to be stored in 
> >> a cool place, UNDERGROUND.  
> 
> >> This explains why the trouble was taken to 
> >>insulate the Leichenkeller and 
> >> put weather stripping on the door.  
> 
> >And did the order for the door to L.Keller 1 
> >say it had "weather stripping?" No. Did it say 
> >that it was a "weather-tight" door? No. The
> >order for the door said "gas-tight." 
> >Please, Mr. Allen, enough with the
> >silly canards. 
> 
>     My construction background  comming through....

Uh huh. Amazing how other people's "construction background" (mine for
instance) don't come through the same way.

> Actually, you wouldn't want "weather stripping"
> one would want a better seal, one that is air or gas
> tight.  Good point, Mark.  To keep the Leichenkeller
> cool, an airtight seal would be needed on the door.

Uh huh. Amazing then, is not Mr. Allen, how all those "potato cellars" in
the Mid-West manage to keep cool in the summer without air-tight doors? 

Keep fishing, Mr. Allen, you are a barrel of laughs! 

> > A cool place was  needed until the furnice was ready to be fired up.
> 
> >For a morgue, yes. How odd then that deniers 
> >have claimed that the forced
> >draft system that was origionally installed to 
> >ventilate L.Keller 1 with
> >HOT AIR to keep the corpses WARM (!), 
> >wouldn't you agree, Mr. Allen? Of
> >_course_ you do! How then do you explain 
> >the purpose of this hot-air
> >ventilation system for L.Keller 1 if you 
> >(rightly so, I might add) claim
> >that a morgue should be kept cool 
> >and contrary to this L.Keller 1 was to
> >be HEATED? 
> 
> >I eagerly await your next set of limp 
> >rationalizations and absurd canards
> >in regard to this, Mr. Allen. You have yet to dissapoint! 
> 
> Pressac makes a big issue of the same point.  The 
> answer is obvious.   Remember your cold Silesian
> Winters?  What would happen to 1,000 bodies that
> got down to around 10 below 0 C?  

And your evidence that the L. Keller's would actually get down to -10C is,
Mr. Allen? 

> That's right, they would be very stiff, stick to the floor,
> hard to undress, check for gold, etc.  

And how long does it take for a corspe to freeze solid, Mr. Allen? How
long to undress and plunder a corpse? 

> It is obvious that a morgue should not be too cold.

It is equally obvious that you haven't the slightest idea id they were or not. 

> I would guess slightly above freezing, maybe  warmer. 

"Guessing" is right, Mr. Allen. Why don't you come up with some hard facts
instead?

> Of course, call your local morgue
> and find out the optimum temperature for
> body storage.  

Why don't you, Mr. Allen? While you're at it why don't you also find out
how many prisoners died daily from natural causes at Auschwitz during
1943-44. Then why don't you compare this to the incineration capacity of
Krema II. 

Perhaps then you will realize how foolish you sound. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:04 PST 1996
Article: 78708 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Soviets were fighting Hitler in 1956 in Hungary?
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 03:23:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <52805555252598@infinity.c2.net> <55qav3$9i8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55qav3$9i8@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ehrlich606@aol.com
(Ehrlich606) wrote:

> In article <52805555252598@infinity.c2.net>, rcgraves@ix.netcom.com (Rich
> Graves) writes:
> 
> >
> >To put it more plainly, I do not believe for a second that either of you
> >have any serious interest in Hungary, 1956. Nor did Irving. Do either of
> >you seriously believe that the Irving quote selected by Judith has even a
> >grain of literal truth to it?
> 
> You know, if you were not such a moralistic jerk you would be able to
> recognize true recognition  of an event, without
> making uninformed statements. 

Um, speaking of (a)moralistic jerks, Mr. Kennady... welcome back. 

And in speakinf of those who make "uniformed" statements... need I remind
you, for eample, of _your_ gross misreprsentaions of Gilbert's _Nuremberg
Diary_? 

[Mr. Kennady's "moralistic" jerking snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:05 PST 1996
Article: 78709 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 23:17:40 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 59
Message-ID: 
References: <55maqo$ej4@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <19961105151500.KAA10685@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961105151500.KAA10685@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote 04 Nov 1996 

[snip]

> >Mr. Allen, you dishonestly quoted Pressac. You lied by ommision.

> CEACAA asks again Uh, Mark.  Was the corpse chute built or not?

Uh. Mr. Allen, did you or did you not dishonestly quote Pressac? 

[snip]

> >Mr. Allen, was not the corspe chute in previous drawings? 

>  [Ceacaa asks again] and was the removal ANNOTATED in drawing 2003?

Mr. Allen, was not the corspe chute in previous drawings? 

[snip]

> >Kept cooler? I see. I guess that's why Pru"fer
> > planned to HEAT L.Keller 1, eh, Mr. Allen? Too keep it "cooler." 

> A morgue is not a frozen meat locker, Mark.

And a homicidal gas chamber is not a morgue, Mr. Allen. (Or a coal gas
generator, a bomb shelter, or a delousing chamber).  

> For three or four months of the year, the room 
> would probably have to be kept above freezing.

And are you saying that the L.Keller would have had a temperature below
freezing for three or four months of the year if it was not preheated as
Pru"fer planned?  And that if it wasn't it would have prevented L.Keller 1
>from  being used as a morgue? 

Sure sounds like it, Mr. Allen!

Why then, Mr. Allen, was not L.Keller 2 (aka "corpse cellar 2") similarly
HEATED as K.Keller 1 was? 

Why then, Mr. Allen, was the said ventilation system, whose motors caught
fire, removed and the preheating of the L.Keller in this fashion
abandoned?

Oops. By your own logic then, Mr. Allen, L.Keller 1 and 2 weren't morgues....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:05 PST 1996
Article: 78754 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:40:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 311
Message-ID: 
References:  <55r90b$f75@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55r90b$f75@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

[snip]

> "Irreproachably correct"  SS, bath directors handing out 
> towels, girls in blue skirts playing sweet music.
> THAT is the Holocaust story.  I admit your story
> makes far more sense but how do you reconcile your description which
> emphasizes FORCE with the above actual survivor 
> eyewitness accounts which clearly state that the victims were tricked into
> the gaschamber?  

Mr. Allen, perhaps a few more examples might help dispell your "confusion"
in regards to how the homicidal gassings were carried out? To whit:

SS Unterscarfu"hrer Broad, Political Section (Gestapo) at KL Auschwitz:

"...There at the ramp the cattle vans were being unloaded and the people
who had arrived in them, were slowly march8ing towards their unknown
destination. All of them had large, yellow Jewish stars on their miserable
clothes. Their worn faces showed that they had suffered many a hardship.
The majority were elderly people. From their conversation one could gather
that up to their unexpected transportation hither they had been employed
in factories, that they were willing to go on working and to be useful as
much as they could. A few guards without guns, but with pistols well
hidden in their pockets, escorted the procession to the crematorium. The
SS men promised the people, who were begining to feel more hopeful, that
they would be employed at suitable work, according to their occupations.
Explicit instructions as to thier behaviour were given the SS men by
Ho"ssler. Up till then the guards treated the new arrivals very roughly,
trying to 'keep them at arm's length' with blows, but their were no
uncivil words at that moment. The more fiendish the whole plan! Both
leaves of the big entrance gate to the crematorium were wide open.
Suspecting nothing the column marched in, in lines of five persons, and
stood in the yard. Somewhat nerviously the SS guard at the entrance waited
for the last man to enter the yard. Quickly he shut the gate and bolted
it. Grabner and Ho"ssler were standing on the rof of the crematorium.
Grabner spoke to the Jews who unsuspectingly awaited their fate.

"'You will now bathe and be disinfeted, we don't wan't any epidemics in
the camp. Then you will be brought to your barracks, and get some hot
soup. You wil be employed in accordance with your professional
qualifications. Now undress and put your clothes in front of yoiu on the
ground.'

"They willingy followed those instructions, given them in a friendly,
warm-hearted voice. Some looked forward to the soup, others were glad that
that their nerve-wracking uncertainty as to their immediate future was
over and that their worst expectations were not realized. All felt
relieved after theiur days full of anxiety. Grabner and Ho"ssler continued
>from  the roof to give freindly advice which had a calming effect upon the
people. 'Put your shoes close to your clothes bundle, so that you can find
them after the bath'. - "Is the water warm? Of course, warm showers. -
What is your trade? A shoemaker? We need them urgently, report to me
immediately after!'  - Such words dispelled last doubts or lingering
suspicions. The first lines entered the morturary thrugh the hall.
Everything was extremely tidy. But the specific smell made some of them
uneasy. They looked in vain for showers or water pipes fixed to the
ceiling. The hall meanwhile was getting packed. Several SS men had entered
with them, full of jokes and small talk. They inobtrusuvely kept their
eyes on the entrance. As soon as the last person had entered, they
dissapeared without much ado. Suddenly the door was closed. It had been
made tight with rubber and secured with iron fittings. Those inside heard
the heavy bolts being secured. They were screwed with screws, making the
door airtight. A deadly, paralysing terror spread aong the victims. They
started to beat upon the door, in helpless rage and despair they hammered
with their fists upon it. Derisive laughter was the only reply. Somebody
shouted through the door, 'Don't get burn't, while you tke your bath!' -
Several victims noticed that the covers had been removed from the six
holes in the ceiling. They uttered a loud cry of terror when they saw a
head in a gas-mask in one opening. The 'disinfectors' were at work. One of
them was SS _Unterscarfu"hrer_ Teur, decorted with the Cross of War Merit.
With a chisel and a hammer they opened a few inncously looking tins which
bore the inscription 'Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention,
poison! To be opened by trained personnel only!' The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after opening
the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which were then quickly
covered...." (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, pp.175-176.) 


SS Obersturmbannfu"hrer Ho"ss, 1st Kommandant of KL Auschwitz:

"In the spring of 1942 [January] the first transports of Jews arrived from
Upper Silesia. All of them were to be exterminated. They were led from the
ramp across the meadow, later named section B-II of Birkenau, to the
farmhouse called Bunker I. [Camp Commander] Aumeier, Palitzch, and a few
other block leaders led them and spoke to them as one would in casual
conversation, asking them about their occupations and their schooling in
order to fool them. After arriving at the farm house they were told to
undress. AT first they went very quietly into the rooms where they were
suposed to be disinfected. At that point some of them became suspicious
and started talking about suffocation and extermination. Immediately a
panic started. Those stil standing outside were quickly driven into the
chambers, and the doors were bolted shut. In the next transport those who
were nervous or upset were identifed and watched closely at all times. As
soon as unrest was noticed these troublemakers were inconspiciously led
behind the farmhouse and killed with a small-caliber pistol, which could
not be heard by the others. The presence of the Sonderkommando and their
soothing behavior also helped calm the restless and suspicious. Some of
the SOnderkommando even went with them into the rooms and stayed until the
last moment to keep them calm while an SS soldier stood in the doorway.
The most important thing, of course, was to maintain as mucg peace and
quitr as possible during the process of arriving and undressing. If some
did not want to undress, some of those already undressed as well as the
Sonderkommando had to help them undress. 

"With quite talk and persuasion even those who resisted were soothed and
udressed. The Sonderkommando, which was composed of prisoners, took great
pains that the process of undressing took place very quickly so that the
victims had no time to think about what was happening. Actually the eager
assistance of the Sonderkommando during the undressing and the processin
into the gas chambers was very peculiar. Never did I see or hear even a
syllable breathed to those who were going to be gassed as to what their
fate was. On the contrary, they tried everything to fool them. Most of
all, they tried to calm those who seeed to guess what was ahead/ Even
though they might not believe the SS soldiers, they would have complete
trust in those of their own race. For this reon the SOnderkommando was
always composed of Jews from the same country as those who were being sent
to the gas chambers." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp. 157-158.) 


Prisoner Doctor, and Auschwitz survivor, Miklos Nyiszli : 

"...Five abreast the group entered the courtyard; it was the moment about
which the outside world knew nothing, for anyone who might have known
something about it, after having treaveled the path of his destiny- the
300 yards seperating that spot from the ramp -had never returned to tell
the tale. It was one of the crematoriums which awaited those who had been
selected for the left-hand column. And not, as the German lie had made the
right-hand column suppose in order to allay their anxiety, a camp for the
sick and children, where the infirm cared for the little ones. 

"They advanced with slow weary steps. The children's eyes were heavy with
sleep and they clung to their mothers' clothes. For the most part the
babies were carried in their fathers' arms, or else wheeled in their
carriages. The SS guards remained before the crematorium doors, where a
poster announced: 'Entrance is Strictly Forbidden to All Who Have No
Business Here, Inclusing SS.'

"The deportees were quick to notice the water faucets, used for sprinkling
the grass, that were arranged about the courtyard. They began to take pots
and pans from their luggage, and broke ranks, pushing and shoving in an
effort to get near the faucets and fill their containers. That they were
impatient was not astonishing: for the past five days they had had nothing
to drink. If ever they had found a little water, it had been stagnant and
had not quenched their thirst. The SS guards who recieved the convoys were
used to the scene. They waited patiently till each had quenched his thirst
and filled his container. IN any case, the guards knew that as long as
they not drunk their would be no getting them back in line. Slowly they
began to re-form their ranks. Then they advanced for about 100 yards along
a cinder path edged with green grass to an iron ramp, from which 10 or 12
concrete steps led underground to an enourmus room dominated by a large
sign in German, French, Greek and Hungarian: 'Bath and Disinfecting Room.'
The sign was reassuring, and allayed the misgivings of fears of even the
most suspicious among them. They went down the stairs almost gaily. 

"The room in which the convoy proceeeded was about 200 yards long: its
walls were whitewashed and it was brightly lit. In the middle of the room,
rows of columns. Around the columns, as well as along the walls, benches.
Above the benches, numbered coat hangers. Numerous signs in several
languages drew everyoe's attention to the necessity of tying his clothes
and shoes together. Especially that he not forget the number of his coat
hanger, in order to avoid all the useless confusion upon his return from
the bath.

"'That's really a German order,' commented those who had long been
inclined to admire the Germans. 

"They were rihgt. As a matter of fact, it _was_ for the sake of order that
these measures had been taken, so that thousands of pairs of good shoes
sorely needed by the THird Reich would not get mixed up. The same fotr the
clothes, so that the population f bombed cities could easily make use of
them. 

"There were 3,000 people in the room: men, women and children. SOme of the
soldiers arrived and announced that everyone must be completely undressed
within ten minutes. The aged, grandfathers and grandmothers, the children,
wives and husbands and girls looked at each other questioningly. Perhaps
they had not exactly understood the German words. They did not have long
to think about it, however, for the order resounded again, this time in a
louder, more menacing tone. They were uneasy; their dignity rebelled; but,
with resignation peculiar to their race, having learnt that anything went
as far as they were concerned, they slowly began to undress. The aged, the
paralyzed, the mad were helped by a Sonderkommando squad sent for that
purpose. In ten minutes all were completely naked, their clothes hung on
the pegs, their shoes attached together by their laces. As for the number
of each clothes hanger, it had been carefully noted.

"Making his way through the crowd, an SS opend the swig-doors of the large
oaken gate at the end of the room. The crowd flowed through into another
equally well-lighted room. The second room ws the same size as the first,
but neither benches nor pegs were to be seen. In the center of the room,
at thirty-yard intervals, columns rose from the concrete floor to the
ceiling. They were not supporting columns, but square sheet-iron pipes the
sides which contained numerous perforations, like a wire lattice. 

"Everuone was inside. A horse comand rang out: 'SS and Sonderkommando
leave the room." They obeyed and counted off. The door swung shut and
fromn without the lights were switched off.... (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_,
pp.48-51.) 

Filip Mu"ller, Sonderkommando and Auschwitz survivor:

"Before each gassing operation the SS took stern precuations. The
crematorium was ringed with SS men. Many SS men patrolled the court with
dogs and machine guns. To the right were the steps that led underground to
the 'undressing room." In Birkenau there were four crematoriums,
Crematoriums 2, 3, and 4 and 5. Crematorium 2 was similar to 3. In 2 and 3
the 'undressing room' and the gas chamber were underground. A large
'undressing room' of about three thousand square feet, and a large gas
chamber where one could gas up to three thousand people at a time.
Crematoriums 4 and 5 were of a different types in that they weren't
located underground. Everyhting was at ground level. IN 4 and 5 there were
three gas chabers, with a total capacity of at most eighteen hundred to
two thousand people  at a time.

As people rached the crematoriums, they saw everything- this horribly
violent scene. The whole area was ringed with SS. Dogs barked. Machine
guns. They all, mainly POlish Jews, had misgivings. They knew something
was seriously amiss, but none of them had the faintest of notions that in
three to four hours they'd be reduced to ashes.

"When they reached the 'undressing room,' they saw that it looked like an
Internatinal Information Center! On the walls were hooks, and each hook
had a number. Beneath the hooks were wooden bences. Sp people could
undress 'more comfortably,' it said. And on the numerous pillars that held
up this undrground 'undressing room,' there were signs with slogans in
several languages" 'Cleam is good!' 'Lice ca kill!' 'Wash yourself!' 'To
the disinfection area.' All those signs were only there to lure people
into the gas chambers already undressed. And to the left, at a right
angle, was the gas chamber with its massive door. 

"In Crematoriums 2 and 3, Zyklon gas crystals were poured in by a
so-called SS disinfection squad through the ceiling, and in Crematoriums 4
and 5 through side openings. With five or six cannisters of gas they could
kill around two thousand people. This so-called disinfection squad arrived
in a truck marked with a red cross and escorted people along to make them
believe they were being led to take a bath. But the red cross was only a
mask to hide the cnnisters of Zyklon gas and the hammers to open them. The
gas took about ten to fifteen minutes to kill. The most horrible thing was
when the doors of the gas chambers were opened- th unbearable sight:
people were packed together like basalt, like blocks of stone. How they
tumbled out of the gas chamber! I saw that several times. That was the
toughest thing to take. You could never get used to that. It was
impossibel." 


"...It was pointless to tell the truth to anyone who crossed the threshold
of the crematorium. You couldn't save anyone there It was impossible to
save people. One day in 1943 when I was already in Crematorium 5, a train
>from  Bialystok arrived. A prisoner on the 'special detail' saw a women in
the 'undressing room' who was the wife of a friend of his. He came right
out and told her: 'You are going to be exterminated. In three hours you'll
be ashes.' The women believed him because she knew him. She ran all over
and warned the other women. 'We're going to be killed. We're going to be
gassed.' Mothers carrying their children on their shoulders didn't want to
hear that. They decided the womam was crazy. They chased her away. So she
went to the men . TO no avail. Not that they didn't believe her; they
heard rumors in the Bialystok ghetto, or in Grodno, and elsewhere. But who
wanted to hear that! Whe she saw that no one would listen, she scratched
her whole face. Out of despair. In shock. And she started to scream. 

"So what happened? Everyone was gassed. The woman was held back. We had to
line up in front of the ovens. First they tortured her horribly because
she wouldn't btray him. IN the end she pointed to him. He was taken out of
line and thrown aive into the oven. We were told: 'Whoever tells anything
will end like that.'

"We in the special detail kept trying to figure out if there was a way we
could tell people, to inform them. But out experiance in several instances
where we were able to tell people, showed that it was no use, that it made
their last moments even harder to bear. At most, we thought it might help
Jews from Poland, or Jews from Theresienstadt (the Czech family camp),
who'd already spent six months in Birkenau. We thought it might have been
of use in such cases to tell such people. But imagine what it was like in
other cases: Jes from Greece, from Hungary, from Corfu, who'd been
traveling for ten ot twelve days, starving, without water for days, dying
of thirst, they were half crazed whe tey arrived. Tey were dealt with
differently. They were only told: 'Get undressed, you'll soon get a mug of
tea.' These peole were in such a state, because they'd been traveling so
long, that their only though was to quench their thirst. And the SS 
executiners knew that very well. It was all preprogrammed, a calculated
part of the extermination process, that if people were so weak, and
weren't given somethiung to drink, they'd rush into the gas chambers. But
in fact, these people were already being exterminated before reaching the
gas chambers. Think of the children. They begged their mothers, screaming:
'Mother, please, water, water!' The adults too, who'd spent days without
water, had the same obsession. Informing those people was quite pointless.
(Lanzmann, _Shoah_, pp.113-117.) 

> My point is that if the Germans did rely on deception 
> to lure people people to their death (as eyewitness 
> testimony clearly states) then the layout of the so-called
> gaschamber doesn't make sense. 

A specious "point," Mr. Allen. You're begging the question. German
deceptions were irrelevent to the design of the L.Kellers. Such deceptions
were practiced at _all_ the homicidal gassing installations at Auschwitz. 

[Mr. Allen's specious and irrelevant "creative writing" snipped]


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:06 PST 1996
Article: 78756 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 13:03:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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References: <55r90b$f75@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <19961107051200.AAA28883@ladder01.news.aol.com> 
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In article <19961107051200.AAA28883@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> Popular stories offer something for everybody.
> The Holocaust myth is no exception....

[Mr. Allen's tired and shopworn theatrics snipped]

Have you any thing of consequence to add, Mr. Allen? (A rhetorical
question if there ever was one!) Or will you once more slide into innuendo
and ad hominems after being made, once again, to look the fool? 

Of course you will. It's what you do best. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:08 PST 1996
Article: 78764 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 08:48:46 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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Message-ID: 
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <55c9l1$1pcc@news.gate.net> <55hc9i$2ucq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <847303648.16749.0@vertigo.combase.com> <32811cf3.4882500@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:89470 alt.revisionism:78764

In article <32811cf3.4882500@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
John.Morris@ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> In <847303648.16749.0@vertigo.combase.com>, Hardwire
>  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >Oh, but indeed, this post is a direct admission that his control over
> >this newsgroup has not been broken.  He's had you chasing your tails,
> >reposting, crossposting, replying, and otherwise wasting your time
> >rebuking him.  He's beginning to accomplish that which he stated he
> >would set out to do.
> 
> Your "disinterested" defense of Giwer is about as interesting as
> watching turnips grow.
> 
> >-- Hardwire
> 
> Killfiled.

Ditto.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 07:55:55 PST 1996
Article: 78780 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 23:04:22 -0700
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In article <55ma3v$aoc@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

[snip]

> >Indeed they could have. In fact, it was tried a few times. The Nazis found
> >out that it was easier and more efficient to ship them off to the killing
> >centers and mass murder them there. Especially at Auschwitz which not only
> >had huge cremtorien at the Birkenau extermination camp, but also had
> >extensive labor camp infrastructure at Aischwitz I, Monowitz, and their
> >satellite camps. 
> 
> Bulllshit.  

Bullshit, Mr. Smith? And you evidence to the contra is? No evidence? How
unsupirising. Methinks any bullshit being spread around here, Mr. Smith,
comes from your neck o' the woods! 

> Shipping people hundreds of miles just to kill them makes no sense at all.

So you say, Mr. Smith. Do yo offer a cogent argument as to why it makes no
sense? No. You simply keep squaking "Bullshit" and it "makes no sense."  

Again, this is hardly suprising of you, Mr. Smith, as _you_ are a Nazi and
have a vested interest in white-washing such Nazi atrocities as mass
murder and genocide. 

> You have nothing but speculation to support your idiotic premise. 
Typical for 
> the Holocaust myth. 

Pot. Kettle. Black. 

> >> Shipping unaccaptables to be merely gassed is ridiculously inefficient.  
> 
> >Rail transport is ridiculously cheap. 
> 
> Rail transport plus inmate upkeep plus guards, supplies and maintenance is 
> nothing compared with a single bullet.   

And how much does a single bullet cost to manufacture and and ship to
where it is used, Mr. Smith? How much does it cost to keep a battalion or
two of troops in the field for months on end? How does killing- up close
and personal with guns  -unarmed and innocent civilian men, women, and
children effect troops, Mr. Smith? How _did_ it effect the troops of the
Einsatzgruppen, Mr. Smith? How hard is it to keep such activities as
liquidating a ghetto in situ a "secret," Mr. Smith? 

[Mr. Smith's sad ad hominem attack snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 08:28:29 PST 1996
Article: 1618 of soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Subject: Re: Uprising in Auschwitz-Birkenau on October 7, 1941
Date: 5 Nov 1996 17:40:22 GMT
Organization: Internet Direct, Incorporated
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In article <55jfa9$f52@viper.txdirect.net>, Chris Whittington
 wrote:

>  wrote:
> > JAMIE SPECHT (jsp263@airmail.net) asks:
> > # Does anyone have any information regarding this uprising
> > # in which the Sonderkommando blew up Crematorium No. 2?
> 
> I walked round Birkenau last month.
> 
  There was nothing stated about Crematoria 2 being destroyed, and
  nothing about such an event in 1941.
> 
  The ruins of Crematorium 2 exist, but only in their 'destroyed by the
> SS at the end of the war' state.
 
> There was information about crematorium 3 being destoyed by 300-400
> of the Sonderkommando in an armed uprising in October 1944.
 
> The ruins of this crematorium are there to be seen.
  Chris Whittington> 




> 

The crematorium destroyed in the Sonderkommanso revolt of October 7, 1944,
was Krema IV. It is discussed, for example, in:

Gutman, _Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_, pp. 500-502.

Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicles 1939-1945_, pp.725-726,728,729.

Hilberg, _The Destruction of the European Jews_, p.631.

Czech, _KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, pp.187-188.

Nyiszli, _Auschwitz: a doctor's eyewitness account_, pp.153-167.

Hart, _Return to Auschwitz_, pp.127-128.

Lengyel, _Five Chimneys_, pp.174-176.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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-- The Nizkor Network -- An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
   http://www.nizkor.org            http://www.nizkor.org/search.html



From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov  7 09:05:22 PST 1996
Article: 186173 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:07 PST 1996
Article: 78809 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 00:46:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 90
Message-ID: 
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>  <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>  <327f6abf.4734644@news.zippo.com>  <3282040f.1097621@news.zippo.com>
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In article <3282040f.1097621@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Nov 1996 22:11:11 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> >Ah, but Mr, Caerpenter, the issue is not about the photos themselves, but
> >about the INTERPRETATION of those photos. The origional photos used by
> >Ball are from the National Archives. Ball's dishonest "interpretation" of
> >them resides soley in Ball's publications. 
>
> The issue is about doctored photos. 

Er, no. The issue is about unfounded accusations of conspiracy and forgery
made by a Holocaust denier who has published dishonest and deceptive
"interpretations" to "prove" his  unfounded accusations of conspiracy and
forgery. 

In other words, a typical denier strawman.

> Who, when, and why?

Why don't you buy Ball's trash and satisfy your curiosity, Mr. Carpenter? 

> Is Ball's theory correct?  

No.

> I don't have an answer yet.

As usual.

> You dismiss it as being dishonest. Why?

Because Ball's lies become self-evident when one carefully compares what
_he_ says the photos show to what is known about Auschwitz. 

> >Big difference. 
> 
> Not really.  The photos can't stand on their own, they need
> interpretation by professionals. 

Of which Ball is not. 

> >That you try and ignore this self-evident fact, Mr. Carpenter, speaks ill
> >of your intentions. 
> 
> Blather.

Indeed. A bad habit of yours, I'm afraid. 

> >> >> The more the merrier. I would love to see multiple
> >> >> opinions from professionals. 
> 
> >Indeed. And do you consider Ball a professional photo reconnainssance 
> analyst? 
> 
> >I don't. 
> 
> I don't know anything about Mr. Ball.  

Unsuprising. You seem to not know much about what you talk about. Of
course, that has never stopped you from arguing out of ignorance....  

> But I do know that the Ball analysis and the CIA analysis can't both be
correct. Someone is going to be left with egg on their face.

Indeed. Perhaps you will offer Ball a napkin? 

> It seems to me the next step would be to get more opinions from
> experts in the field. Yes?
> 
> >> >For starts, Mr. Carpenter, try:
> >> >
> >> >_The Holocaust Revisited: A Retrospective Analysis of the Auschwitz
> >> >Extermination Complex_, Dino A. Brugioni and Robert G. Poirier. Central
> >> >Intelligence Agency (ST-79-10002), 1979
> >> 
> >> Thanks.
> >
> >Your're welcome. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:08 PST 1996
Article: 78829 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why won't any "revisionists" answer these questions?
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:11:16 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <55m8gt$3q2@orion.cybercom.net> <55tnoc$321@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55tnoc$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> The "Holocaust" started out as typical Allied and Jewish anti-German war 
> propaganda....
 
Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:08 PST 1996
Article: 78830 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:07:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <7pxVoOev1ayM065yn@login.dknet.dk> <55p3vg$41d@news.enter.net> <55tlmi$321@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55tlmi$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> Yet Jews and the Jewish media are in the forefront of multiracialism in 
> White lands, a movement which is destroying the White race.  Evidently, 
> Jews want Whites to suffer racial destruction, but not themselves. A very 
> typical Jewish hypocrisy, and a deliberate act of anti-White hatred. 

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:09 PST 1996
Article: 78831 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:07:54 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <55jhlo$kvk@news.enter.net>  <55tlgk$321@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55tlgk$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> ...The United was created for Whites and by Whites. Undoubtedly, George 
> Washington did not fight Brits just to hand over the land gratuitously to 
> any invasions of third-world biped that drifts onto an America shore....  

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:10 PST 1996
Article: 78832 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:08:07 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References:     <55tl60$321@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55tl60$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> Of course, the genocide of Whites is "OK" with liberal Mrs. Ahlf.  

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:11 PST 1996
Article: 78833 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Aluminum foil contains pork? [was: Re: Two Questions for Charles (Month
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:08:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <55k9jf$ivl@is05.micron.net> <55m366$a1s@news.enter.net> <55m9ck$aoc@is05.micron.net> <327f6d34.1824089@news.spry.com> <55tlu2$321@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55tlu2$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, 05 Nov 1996 02:48:52 GMT, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
> >Stele) wrote:
> 
> >>You are a liar, Yale.  The Freeman brothers weren't NA.   
> If anything they were Zionists.

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]


For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:12 PST 1996
Article: 78882 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 18:15:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
Message-ID: 
References:  <55jtso$ode@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55jtso$ode@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine WROTE ON  03 Nov 1996 
> 
> > Brian Harmon wrote on 1 Nov 1996 
> 
> > >#And yet, the corpse chute in the Leichenkeller 
> > >#was _removed_ and annotated in the plans.
> >>  Ceacaa wrote:
> >> Wrong.  The chute was built.   It didn't show in Bauleitung
> >> drawing 2003.   The removal was not annotated.
>   
>     VanAlstine writes:
> >Clearly, Mr. Allen, you have lied by ommision in 
> >trying to offer your lame Nazi apologia as to why 
> >the homicidal modifications to Kremas II and III
> >were _not_ a clear indication of the homicidal 
> >intent of the Nazis. 
> 
>      Uh, Mark.  Was the corpse chute built or not?

Mr. Allen, you dishonestly quoted Pressac. You lied by ommision.

> and was the removal annotated in drawing 2003?

Mr. Allen, was not the corspe chute in previous drawings? 

>           Ceacaa writes:
> >> Corpses were first brought into Leichenkeller 2,
> >> the room nearest the central Camp Road.  There they 
> >> were undressed, checked for valuables, and other
> >> wise "processed".  
>   Van Alstine asks:
> >And how were these "corpses" brought into L.Keller 2, Mr. Allen? 
> 
> The installation of an acess stairway leading 
> directly from the northyard of Krematorium II to 
> a basement antechamber between the "goldworking"
> room and the associated office, and then to the junction between
> Leichenkeller 2 and 1. The western access stairway direct to Leichenkeller
> 2 was not yet planned [the first mention 
> of it found in the PMO Bauleitung files being
> dated 26th February 1943],

I see. You are then claiming, Mr. Allen, that the Nazis, after designing
(and building) a corpse chute that would allow the corpses to be
efficiently slid down into the L.Keller 3 (the vestibule area between
L.Kellers 1 and 2), suddenly decided to change the plans, demolish and 
board up the corpse chute so that it was no longer usable, and add a
stairway- all so that the corpses could be CARRIED down? 

Sorry, Mr. Allen, that dog don't hunt. 

> >> They were then carried into
> >> Leichenkeller 1 (which served as cool storage).
> 
> >Why would these "corpses" be carried from 
> >one "morgue" to another, Mr. Allen? 
>     Leichenkeller 2 was a working room 
> where the corpses were undressed, searched.
> Leichenkeller 1 was kept cooler for dead storage.

Kept cooler? I see. I guess that's why Pru"fer planned to HEAT L.Keller 1,
eh, Mr. Allen? Too keep it "cooler." 

Yep, black is white and white is black when Mr. Allen opens his mouth. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:12 PST 1996
Article: 78886 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:56:58 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 78
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961108052100.AAA18696@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961108052100.AAA18696@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[snip]

> ...It struck me that Mark and the silly Nazis forgot
> the real value of robbing people. the value of the 
> houses, farms, cars left behind.  $91 (plus bones) is
> nothing compared to a nice house in Dietva.

Once more Mr. Allen strikes himself right between the eyes.... 

==============================================================================

Subject:      Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
From:         mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Date:         1996/10/30
Message-Id:   
References:   <551ef4$ag@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
<5566tf$mbh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

[snip]

"In the bureaucracy one thing at least was certain: the Jews were not
expected back in Germany. In 1942, certainly by 1943, most of them were
dead. The dead Jews left behind them a legacy which was to occupy the
bureaucrats for months and years: personal property, apartments, Jewish
community property, blocked accounts, goods in customs houses, sequestered
securities, firms and real estate still under trusteeship, credits and
debts, pensions, insurance, and inheritance problems. All these odds and
ends, unliquidated expropriations and unfinished business, were now
dropped into the laps of the Finance Ministry's experts." (Hilberg,
_Destruction_, p.300.) 

[snip]

"By the end of 1942, the Aryanizations in Belgium were largely
completed.... The value of sequestered Jewish assets (_u"berwachtes
Judenvermo"gen_) in reichmark is indicated in Table 57. We should hasten
to add that the banks were slow in reporting Jewish accounts; therefore
the amount of cash in the banks - swelled by the proceeds from the sale of
nearly six hundred enterprises - was much greater than the six million
reichmarks indicated in the _Milita"rbefehlshaber's_ report. Nevertheless,
the total deposit ultimately accumulated in Belgium must have fallen far
short of the half-billion figure which was surpassed in Holland.... (Ibid.
p.386.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TABLE 57 / Value of Sequestered Jewish Assets [Ibid. p.386.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   End of 1941            End of 1942
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cash in banks                        none                  6,150,000
Securities and papers                80,000,000           70,650,000
Real estate parcels (2814)           36,000,000           50,000,000
      Total                         116,000,000          126,800,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

==============================================================================

Mr. Allen, it would be nice if you did some rudimentary _research_ before you
blather your idiocy across the 'Net! Obviously, you don't feel such
obligations as to the _accuracy_ of your claims. Equally as obvious, you
had no _intention_ of researching the issues in the least. Instead, you
simply toss out your prejudices and propaganda like long-dead fish for
sale and hope nobody will notice the stench. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:13 PST 1996
Article: 78889 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 18:47:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961108051600.AAA18616@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961108051600.AAA18616@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> On 04 Nov 1996  wrote:
> 
> > >"The highest echelons of the SS once estimated the profit generated by
> > >the average concentration camp prisoner. Based on an average prisoner life
> > >expectancy of nine months, the profit totaled 1,431 RM (about $654) per
> > >prisoner after deducting costs of upkeep. The value of money,
> > >valuables,clothing, personal belongings, and teeth of precious metals 
> > >reached 200 RM ($91) after the costs of burning the body had been
deducted. 
> > >Thus according to calculations made by the Nazis themselves, the total
> > >average profit from one prisoner, not including the value of the victim's
> > >bones, totaled 1,631 RM ($745)." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.262.) 
> 
> Mark, if these figures are right then The Germans made
> a whole $654 in value presumably in forced labor? 

Presumably.

> Are you claiming that a Camp inmate was worth $75 per month in forced labor? 

Are you claiming they weren't?

> And why the nine month figure?  

Because they didn't live to ten months? 

> Thank you for explaining yourself.

You should try it some time! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:14 PST 1996
Article: 78890 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Big brother Mcvay is watching
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 19:58:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
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In article <55tm8c$321@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

...Noting of importance.

[Mr. Smith's tantrum snip]

> Yeah, sure McVay.  When are you going to get an honest job, like pumping gas 
> again?

This from the National Alliance waterboy? LOL! Only if the rabidly
anti-Semitic Mr. Smith _were_ pumping gas! Perhaps then _he_ wouldn't be
so sore from getting pumped by his Aryan "daddies" at the National
Alliance! 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:15 PST 1996
Article: 78911 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Her Majesty has been advised...
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 23:13:00 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
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In article <328368f1.1988111@news.spry.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Nov 1996 18:29:26 -0500, Bob Whitaker
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> >     There's still some little hope.  I was a professor myself, but I
> >grew out of it.
> 
> Didn't get tenure, eh?

Ouch. Low blow.  };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  9 05:38:21 PST 1996
Article: 78923 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!Oslo2.Norway.EU.net!Norway.EU.net!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stele's Lies
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 23:00:37 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References: <32826836.4DF3@rio.com>
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In article <32826836.4DF3@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

> Chuck Ferree  wrote:
> 
> >Chuck Ferree submits the following for the benefit of Stele.
> 
> >Stele has claimed that Hoess's confession didn't mean a thing, because 
> >it was tortured out of him. Hoess on the other hand testifies that he 
> >was not forced to say anything, and he also wrote by hand in his own 
> >words, that as Commandant of Auschwitz, he planned mass gassings and 
> >carried out mass gassings. He wrote his memories while in a Polish 
> >prison under the death sentence, and explains in considerable detail 
> >how this infamous "Death Camp" was operated. He was hanged on the 
> >grounds at Auschwitz. 
> 
> Hoess admitted he was "assigned" to write "extemporaneous" memoirs.  

Not so. Ho"ss was _asked_ to write his memoirs. He did so willingly: 

"As Jan Sehn and Ho"ss became more comfortable with each other, Sehn asked
Ho"ss to write about some of the people and try to recall some of the
documents that had been destroyed when Auschwitz was being evacuated
because of the approaching Soviet Armies. Sehn also asked Ho"ss to write
about some of the people who were respnsible for the major decisions
concerning the founding and construction of Auschwitz-Birkenau, such as
Himmler, Pohl, and Eicke. The others were addd as requested by Sehn. Many
have never been published anywhere before. After Ho"ss had completed the
anecdotal sections, he remarked to Sehn one day that there was nothing to
do in his jail cell in Cracow. This comment spurred Sehn to suggest that
Ho"ss write about himself. This section is often referred to by historians
as the 'Autobiography of Rudolf Ho"ss.' Ho"ss's last writings are two
letters to his wife and childfren and the request that his wedding ring be
sent to his wife after his execution. These aslo never before have been
published ion the United States and are presented in this book to prvide
the reader with a deeper look into Ho"ss the human being rather than Ho"ss
the zealous Nazi who followed orders without question." (Introduction to
_Death Dealer_, p.20.) 

[Mr. Smith's worthless Nazi spew snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  9 05:38:21 PST 1996
Article: 78955 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust Story is a Hate Crime
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 03:51:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 50
Message-ID: 
References: <327e1c9f.8555832@199.0.216.204> <2RhSROAfg4gyEw22@bebbo.demon.co.uk> <3283be5d.423471@199.0.216.204>
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In article <3283be5d.423471@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[snip]

> Then it's your position that the continuous harping is due to
> revisionists harping? Which came first? The chicken or the egg?
> Whatever. The revisionist certainly don't get any accommodating in or
> on the medias. In spite of it all, the 100s to 0 times the story gets
> accommodation over any revisionist the subject is only getting more
> popular, with most of it coming from those who are willing to look
> side ways at the existing story.


Translation: After the Moran complained about the music at the Holiday
Inn, he coudn't decide whether to have chicken or an omlette for lunch.
Tired of his complaints and preverication he evidently got his butt kicked
out of the hotel and no matter how many times he tells the story, he or
one of his Nazi buddies tries to lie about it and say that it was the
Joooooos..... 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  9 05:38:22 PST 1996
Article: 78962 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:46:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <55rl9s$1c28$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:25:38 -0500
> writes:
> :>
> :>In article <327fdff5.15295167@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
> :>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
> :>
> :>
> :>> Now really Miss Schwartz, changing your self-anointed title of
> :>> misspelt "Perfect" to prefect does not  constitute forgery. It is not
> :>> your name, it is not your message, it is not your e-mail address. Your
> :>> menopausal outbursts put me in mind of a screeching, haggard old
> :>> harriden, a decayed strumpet, or a pubescent girl thinking with her
> :>> uterus rather than her brain.
> :>> 
> :>
> :>Of course, Mr. McClelland. When you are unable to produce a reasonable
> :>answer, or back up your statements with any facts, attack. And when
> :>speaking to a woman, be sure to throw in all that "menopause" and "thinking
> :>with her uterus" stuff. 
> :> 
> :>It speaks volumes about you, mr. McClelland.
> 
> Indeed.  I think we all know what old Fergus thinks with.  :-)

Yes, and it has an affinity for knot-holes.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov  9 05:38:23 PST 1996
Article: 78978 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 11:17:18 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References: <19961107051200.AAA28883@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961109051800.AAA09877@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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In article <19961109051800.AAA09877@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[snip]

> Any significant property of deported Jews was to 
> be "sequestered".  Sequestion is a form of trust.

sequester vt. 1 to set off or apart; seperate; segragate; often to
segragate or isolate (the jury) during a trial 2 to takw and hold
(property) by judicial authority, for safekeeping or as a security until a
legal dispute is resolved 3 to take over; confiscate, seize, esp. by
authority 4 to withdraw; seclude: often used reflexively

_Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition). 

Clearly, Mr. Allen, you have overlooked the more appropriate definition
given the context that Jewish property was _confiscated_ by the Nazis and
never ligated over and never returned. 

How unsuprising. 

> The whole German legal system relating to
> sequestered property was one of trust.  

Why was Jewish property in "trust," Mr. Allen? What _legal disputes_,
specifically were under litigation by Jews from Germany, Poland, Belguium,
Denmark, etc. against the Nazi government concerning this Jewish
property?  


> Certain debts and expenses were to be paid out but
> the system presumed that the remainder would
> be returned to its owners.

What debts and expenses where these, specifically, Mr. Allen? Why where
these debts "incurred" in the first place?  Why did the Nazis _confiscate_
Jewish assets and never it to its rightful owners? 

> Your quote shows that the property was put
> in trust and managed.  

Bullshit, Mr. Allen. All that has been shown is that you are dishonest in
the extreme. Given the reality that about 6 million Jews were murdered by
the Nazi regime and that the murdered victims' property was never returned
by the Nazis, I'd say that it is becoming pointless to bother with you as
all you seem capable of doing is lying through your teeth and playing
puerile semantic games.

> Other reports show that some was returned.

Sources please? How much of the confiscated Jewish assets was returned to
the righful owners or their heirs? How much was not? 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Nov 10 06:54:01 PST 1996
Article: 79005 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:57:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961107052200.AAA28966@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961107052200.AAA28966@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> > Mark Van Alstine wrote 04 Nov 1996 
> 
> > >Mr. Allen, you dishonestly quoted Pressac. You lied by ommision.
> 
> > CEACAA asks again Uh, Mark.  Was the corpse chute built or not?
> 
> >Uh. Mr. Allen, did you or did you not dishonestly quote >Pressac?   
>    
> Obviously not.  I quoted Pressac to show that
> the chute was built...not to discuss his other two
> points. 

Really, Mr. Allen. Amazing than that you OMITTED the middle of a sentance
doing so. I'm afraid that dog don't hunt. You lied then and you just lied
now. 

Oh what a tangled web you weave, Mr. Allen... Carefull, lest you hang yourself. 

Liar.  

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Nov 10 12:07:01 PST 1996
Article: 79087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HOLO-HOAX DESTROYED FROM THE AIR!!
Date: Mon, 04 Nov 1996 19:36:49 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References: <53eat3$bm1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3268d606.750769@news.sure.net> <54ftgg$7vu@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54jmv9$mgk@news.csus.edu> <32793c40.285555@news.zippo.com> <55dada$57t@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>  <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>
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In article <327d0d98.7323589@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Nov 1996 16:42:16 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <327c15dd.3051962@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
> >Carpenter) wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> I revisited the site a few days ago and saw his new additions. While I
> >> have no knowledge of air photo analysis, I am a trained flight
> >> observer with many hours of SAR, I do  know 'shadows.'  
> >> This new evidence is quite relevant and deserves investigation. 
> >> Who doctored the photos, when and why?
> >
> >And your evidence that these photos were doctored is, Mr. Carpenter? The
> >word of a "photo intepreter" who can't even identify the electrified
> >perimeter fence of a Krema correctly? 
> >
> >Mark
> 
> The only information I have is located at www.air-photo.com
> Mr Ball is not the only air-photo intepreter around.

In other words, you have no evidence. You _were_ relying on the word of
Mr. Ball, a Holocaust denier who can't even identify the electrified
perimeter fence of a Krema correctly! 

> The more the merrier. I would love to see multiple
> opinions from professionals. 

For starts, Mr. Carpenter, try:

_The Holocaust Revisited: A Retrospective Analysis of the Auschwitz
Extermination Complex_, Dino A. Brugioni and Robert G. Poirier. Central
Intelligence Agency (ST-79-10002), 1979

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Nov 10 12:20:30 PST 1996
Article: 89786 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 12:46:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net>  <327a0973.2522479@news.demon.co.uk>  <327fdff5.15295167@news.demon.co.uk><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net>  <327a0973.2522479@news.demon.co.uk>  <327fdff5.15295167@news.demon.co.uk>  <55rl9s$1c28$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <55rl9s$1c28$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect)Wed, 06 Nov 1996 08:25:38 -0500
> writes:
> :>
> :>In article <327fdff5.15295167@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
> :>(Fergus McClelland) wrote:
> :>
> :>
> :>> Now really Miss Schwartz, changing your self-anointed title of
> :>> misspelt "Perfect" to prefect does not  constitute forgery. It is not
> :>> your name, it is not your message, it is not your e-mail address. Your
> :>> menopausal outbursts put me in mind of a screeching, haggard old
> :>> harriden, a decayed strumpet, or a pubescent girl thinking with her
> :>> uterus rather than her brain.
> :>> 
> :>
> :>Of course, Mr. McClelland. When you are unable to produce a reasonable
> :>answer, or back up your statements with any facts, attack. And when
> :>speaking to a woman, be sure to throw in all that "menopause" and "thinking
> :>with her uterus" stuff. 
> :> 
> :>It speaks volumes about you, mr. McClelland.
> 
> Indeed.  I think we all know what old Fergus thinks with.  :-)

Yes, and it has an affinity for knot-holes.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 11 07:04:00 PST 1996
Article: 79126 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:59:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 83
Message-ID: 
References:   
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >
> >Really? In that spirit then, Should it not also be a human, as well as
> >envoronmental, right to put a cork in Nazi blowhards who promulgate
> >ideologies of oppression and violence, so as to keep their Nazi bullshit
> >from polluting the earth?
> 
>  Where are all these dangerous nazis? 

Well, the the Freeman brothers, who are NA members,  evidently murdered
their parents.  member of the neo-Nazi skin-head gang callthe "East Side
White Pride"  murdered Mulugeta Seraw with a baseball bat. Tom Metzger and
WAR incited said murder of Mulugeta Seraw. Bob Matthews and members of
"The Order" went on a virtual terrorist rampage, committing armed robbery
(netting over $3.6 million), counterfeiting, attempted murder of a peace
officer, and the murder of Alan Berg.

Fortuately, the above Nazi scum are either dead, behind bars, awaiting
trial, or bankrupted from civil action. 


> I think that you are obsessed by nazism...

No, _disgusted_ by it -and those who promulgate its racist and evil ideologies. 

Like you, for instance, Mr. Kreiberg. 

[snip]

> >I guess that makes Danes "race traitors" in your book, eh, Mr. Kreiberg? I
> >mean, with all those wars Denmark has waged agianst it's ("white")
> >nieghbor's and all.... 
> 
>  These wars were fought before there was any immigration from the third
> world and no multiracialism.... 

So you admit your fellow Danes waged war gainst their "Aryan" brothers. 
Like I said- "race traitors."  So how do your fellow Danes like being
descended from "race traitors" Mr. Kreiberg?  

> >Tell us, Mr. Kreiberg, do the majority of your fellow Dane's share your
> >views on "race traitors?"
> >
>  This is a good question. Different opinion polls and research have come up
> with the result that 5 per cent of the population share the ultraliberal 
> views of you and others 

Are my views "ultraliberal" Mr. Kreiberg? What views are those? I don't
believe I've discussed any of _my_ views, outside stating that I detest
Nazis and Holocaust debiers like yourself, in much detail in this group. 

[snip]

> By the way an Austrian anti-immigration party got at least 30 per cent of 
> the votes at a recent election and in France a recent opinion poll showed 
> that 40 per cent supported the views of Le pen and the Front Nationale.

And? Do you somehow see this as a vindication for your Nazi ideas about
depriving  Danish citizens of their rights, property, and Danish
citizenship, harrassing and intimidating them with violence, putting them
into concentration camps, and deporting them to parts unkown? 

[snip]


And _you_ talk about delusions? Amazing. Odds are, given any truth to the
origns of your surname, that _you'd_ probably end being one of the first
to go. 

Wouldn't _that_ be poetic justice!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:40 PST 1996
Article: 79181 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: David Irving blaming the Holocaust on Jews: page numbers for Ehrlich
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 23:32:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 112
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <561h2i$l4g@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <19961109182800.NAA19232@ladder01.news.aol.com> <566kq7$njr@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
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In article <566kq7$njr@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
Ostrov) wrote:

[snip]

> And now some words "from the horse's mouth,"  so to speak -
> 
> From _Nazism_ When history is written by bad men By Jacob Heilbrunn
> The New Republic [The Globe and Mail, Saturday, Oct. 19/96 Page D5]
> Heilbrunn is reporting on his experience during a luncheon in Irving's
> honour:
> 
> 
> 
> During a lull in the conversation, I asked Mr. Iriving about a comment
> he'd made earlier:  that critics saw the message of his new books as,
> in Thomas McCormack's words, "the Jews brought it on themselves."  Mr.
> Irving paused.  The first boycott of Jewish-owned businesses was
> preceded, he explained, "by a Jewish declaration of war on Germany.
> The Nazis were simply retaliating."  Anyway, he added in a mocking
> tone, Goebbels called the boycott for April 1, which was the Jewish
> Sabbath.  He was simply trying to get them to obey their own faith.
> 
> 
> 
> [more excerpts from the above article are available from Deja News in
> my post of Oct. 19/96 "Speaking of David Iriving"]

[snip]

Speaking of from the horse's mouth:

"The true position of Irving on the Final Solution can be gleaned from
this item in _Focal Point_, the organ of the Focus Policy Group, which he
formed as an abortive attempt to create a broad-based international
network of ultr-nationalists in the early 1980's. The cover of the issue
featured a bronze head of Hitler and bore the headline 'The Voice from
beyond Valhalla.' This passage is taken from the transscript, 'never
before published,' of stenographer's record of the long-term policy which
Hitler made in private to 'one of his financial backers' on 21 December
1922 at the Hotel Regina Palace in Munich. The piece is entitled 'Hitler
Lays it on the Line' with the heading "in talk with German financier
Hitler revealed his Secret Plan twenty years before he implemented them:
Dictatorship, War, COnquest, the Jews. Here we reproduce only the section
concerning the Jews." (Griffen, _Fascism_, p.184.)


<>

_Answers to Some Problems_

_The Jewish Question_: the Jewish question could be dealt with the way
that Frederick the Great solved it. HE eliminated [_ausgeschaltet_] the
Jews from everywhere they were bound to have an noxious effect, but on the
other hand he made demands on them where they could be of use. In our
political life the Jews are unquestionably noxious. They are poisoning our
people. I always used to regard antisemitism as inhuman but now my own
experiances have converted me into the most fanatical enemy of Jewry, in
which connection: I combat Jewry not as a religion but as a race. [...]

The Jews have no right to rule, becuase they are berift of the slightest
spark of organizational talent.

The Jews seek to restructure the nations along caste lines. WHile an Aryan
nation keeps pumping fresh blood from its innermost depths into the
highest reaches and thus keeps eternally rejuvinating its substance, the
Jews try to divide mankind into castes and this will slowly but surely
strangle it to extinction. If you want proof of the harmful effect of
caste, look at ancient Egypt and India.

The Catholic church offers the opposite example: without gainsaying its
many shortcomings, it forms and reforms its leadership by drawing upon the
fresh and unused forces that grow upwards from its depths...

_Two Possibilities_

IT IS CLEAR that there is nothing Jews can do about their character and
shortcomings. But in our own case what matters is not whether they are to
blame, but whether or not we are obliged to put up with the Jewish yoke
any longer.

The lion is a beast of prey.

There's nothing he can do about that- it lies in his nature. But no way is
Man obliged to stand for being mauled by a lion; he must save his skin as
best he can, even if the lion comes to harm.

A solution of the Jewish Problem must come. If the problem can be solved
by common sense, then so much the better for both parties. If not then
there are two possibilities: either a bloody conflict or an
Amrmenianisation.

<>

Note: "The Turks are claimed to have secretly liquidated 1,500,000
Armenians at the begining of this century." (Griffen, _Fascism_, p.339.) 


Mark


posted/e-mailed to Ms. Ostrov

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:41 PST 1996
Article: 79184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:38:53 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <32848ef6.762029@199.0.216.204> <3284ca15.7451177@news.txdirect.net> <3286f60f.1533011@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3286f60f.1533011@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

> I have seen many extra-extraordinary claims about how many
> relatives individual Jews had lost in the Holocaust. One person said
> he lost 120. Another said he lost 160, on his mother's side alone,
> then admitted to a "retraction" and another person said she had a lot
> of "photographs".
> 
>  Now maybe Mr.Mazal can come back and tell how many he lost.

Why bother? It would be like casting pearls before swine. 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:42 PST 1996
Article: 79227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: That troll in Tampa
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:12:31 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com> <567hg2$ac4@news3.gte.net> <567sna$2d2@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:79227 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:630

In article <567sna$2d2@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@ix.netcom.com
(Rich Graves) wrote:

[snip]

> Hmm. Looks like /tpm.*.gte.net/:j would do it. "tpm" is an odd
> abbreviation for Tampa.

Yup. Works just fine for me.... :-)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:42 PST 1996
Article: 79243 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 19:48:36 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 148
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961108054000.AAA19150@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961108054000.AAA19150@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> The case of the missing corpse chute or
> Mark's missing answer.
> 
> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 07 Nov 1996 1
> 
> .> > CEACAA asks again Uh, Mark.  Was the 
> >>corpse chute built or not?
> > 
> > >Uh. Mr. Allen, did you or did you not dishonestly quote >Pressac?   
> >    
> >> Obviously not.  I quoted Pressac to show that
> >> the chute was built...not to discuss his other two
> >> points. 
> 
> >Really, Mr. Allen. Amazing than that 
> >you OMITTED the middle of a sentance
> >doing so. I'm afraid that dog don't hunt. 
> >You lied then and you just lied
> >now. 
> >Liar.  
> 
> Looks like Mark has gotten a little giddy again.
> Just can't bring himself to admit that I am
> right.  

Right about what, exactly, Mr. Allen? That you lied by ommision when you
deceprively quoted Pressac? Indeed then you are right!

Or do you mean that I "can't bring himself to admit" that the corspe chute
was built? If so I'm afraid you are quite wrong, to say the least, Mr.
Allen!

To whit:

=============================================================================

Subject:      Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
From:         mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Date:         1996/11/04
Message-Id:   
References:    

[snip]

I see. You are then claiming, Mr. Allen, that the Nazis, after designing
(and building) a corpse chute that would allow the corpses to be
efficiently slid down into the L.Keller 3 (the vestibule area between
L.Kellers 1 and 2), suddenly decided to change the plans, demolish and 
board up the corpse chute so that it was no longer usable, and add a
stairway- all so that the corpses could be CARRIED down? 

[snip]

=============================================================================

> Anyway, trying to get Mark VanAlstine
> to give an honest answer may have gotten a 
> little confusing to everybody else.

No. Mr. Allen, I'm afraid the only person "confused" here is _you_! 

> Pressac makes a big point of the fact 
> the the corpse chute did not appear on
> some late plans of Krema II.  There
> was NOT an annotation to explain the
> deletion of the chute.

And? 

> In fact the chute appears to have been built.

And? 

> One can still be seen in the ruins of K. III

And? 

> A mirror Pressac argument is that
> a heating system for Leichenkeller 1
> was planned but NOT built.

Oops! There you go lying by omission again, Mr. Allen! Tsk, tsk! 

Pressac clearly writes that:

"...Leichenkeller 1 can no longer be an underground morgue because there
are plans to <> it; Leichenkeller 2 can no longer be a morgue
because it has become a place where people get undressed [i.e.
"Auskleidekeller" -MV]. However, before Pru"fer's bright idea could be put
into practice, one of the forced-draught motors caught fire, damaging the
installation. This fire caused the system to be withdrawn from service in
Krematorium II and totally abandoned in Krematorium III...." (Pressac,
_Technique_, p.223.) 

Further clarification by Pressac on this can be found:

"Another last-minute problem arose because of defective arrangement of the
three forced drafts around the smokestack. Transfer of heat from the
smokestack to the ventilation system was to increase the temperature in
all the rooms serviced by the system. Pru"fer had pointed out this
drawback on February 19 and suggested channling the excess heat to morhue
1 - a suggestion that clearly reveals that the morgue, which by definition
must remian cool, had become a gas chmber. Heating the morgue would ensure
more rapid diffusion of Zyklon B. The plan was immediately accepted by the
SS, and on February 22, Topf sent to Auschwitz a cast-iron blower with an
extractive power of 9,000 to 10,000 cu m an hour, priced at 522 RM (1992:
$2,100).

"A relatively minor item that had not been yet made was a metal connecting
pipe, in the shape of a trident, to be placed in the loft between the
ceiling of the rooms with forced draft and the blower, which fed into the
smokestack used to evcuate the gas from the gas chamber. A sliding damper
in the smokestack allowed control of the flow of air. Closed and with
activated blowers, the flow of hot air would go into the gas chamber and
preheat it. Open, it would allow for the extraction of the toxix gas. The
order for the connecting pipe was officially approved on March 6 at a
price of 1,070 RN, It was to be manufactured within the week." (Gutman,
_Anatomy_, p.230-232.) 

> Thus, the Exterminationist argument
> is:
> Corpse chute not planned (but built) ahha!!
> Heating planned (but not built)  Ahha!!!

Mr. Allen is caught lying again. Ahha!

> This is not to dismiss all of Pressac's 
> "criminal traces"  but these to are 
> not very powerful.

This _is_ a dismissal of Mr. Allen's specious drivel. One simply cannot
take seriously the arguments of a person who must lie and distort to make
his "point."

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:43 PST 1996
Article: 79247 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!news.stealth.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:07:03 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 148
Message-ID: 
References:     
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >
> >Well, the the Freeman brothers, who are NA members,  evidently murdered
> >their parents.  member of the neo-Nazi skin-head gang callthe "East Side
> >White Pride"  murdered Mulugeta Seraw with a baseball bat. 
> 
> You mean that there are members of NA that are able to commit crimes like
> members of all others parties. 

Assuredly so, Mr. Kreiberg. It appears to be a popular activity with
neo-Nazis and "white supremicists" in this country. 

> You are not trying to tell me that it had 
> never occured that members of the republican party or the democratic party 
> have made crimes.

Mr. Kreiberg, when was the last time a member of the Democratic Party
murdered his parents because they didn't want him to go to party meetings?
When was the last time a leader of the Democratic party incited the murder
of an Etheopian immigrant? When was the last time a leader of the
Democratic party conspired and committed acts of armed robbery,
counterfeiting, and murder? 

[snip]

> Hm, does it automatically make you a nazi if you are against the 
> immigration from the third world and the multiethnic society or refuse to 
> believe in the holocaust?

No, Mr. Kreiberg. What makes _you_ a Nazi is your unstinting promulgation
of some of the very same ideals and policies that the Nazis promulgated
and enacted. 

> >So you admit your fellow Danes waged war gainst their "Aryan" brothers. 
> >Like I said- "race traitors."  So how do your fellow Danes like being
> >descended from "race traitors" Mr. Kreiberg?  
> 
> Today it is treason. 

Really? Being a "race traitor" is treason in Denmark? 

> There were no race consciousness in those days because
> there were ethnic homogeneity. 

Really? 

>Another thing is that Denmark had to defend it's independence against such 
>aggressive neighbours as Germany and Sweden.

Really? What about the War with Sweeden (1506-1513) in which Denmark
(unseuccessfully) tried to reestablish the the Union of Kalmer by force?
What about Denmark's expansion of power and possesion under the reign of
Christien IV (1588-1648)? What about Denmark's involvement in the
religious wars in Germany? 

> >Are my views "ultraliberal" Mr. Kreiberg? What views are those? I don't
> >believe I've discussed any of _my_ views, outside stating that I detest
> >Nazis and Holocaust debiers like yourself, in much detail in this group. 
> 
>  You are defending the multiethnic society. Liberals do that. 

So do conservatives, Mr. Kreiberg. Methinks your bigotry is showing again. 

> You do it so fanatically that you call all opponents of the multiethnic 
> society for nazis.

No, Mr. Kreiberg, I call those who espouse and promulgate Nazi ideology
Nazis. Like you, for instance. 

> >And? Do you somehow see this as a vindication for your Nazi ideas about
> >depriving  Danish citizens of their rights, property, and Danish
>                                              ^^^^^^^^
> >citizenship, harrassing and intimidating them with violence, putting them
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >into concentration camps, and deporting them to parts unkown? 
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
>  Depriving ex-Danish citizens of their property? 

Indeed. That is, in essence, the "logical" outcome of  what you propose,
is it not? Or do you _really_ think that the ex-Danish citizens you forced
into concentration camps and deport to parts unknown will get fair-market
prices for their assets? 

That is, of course, providing their assets aren't confiscated due to some
puerile Nazi rationalization of yours. 

> For what reason? 

Because you are a racist Nazi pig? 

> Denmark is one the richest countries in the world. 

Indeed. And which makes your Nazi spew all the more pathetic and
revolting. Not to mention that it cheapens Denmark and its wonderful
citizens. (Racist Nazi pigs like you excepted, of course.) 

> I have neither spoken about harassment and violence. This is all slander and 
> lies from your side. 

Mr. Kreiberg, you have claimed you are "looking for" a "humane and
unfanatic racialism." [1] Yet you also say that to "stop and reverse the
immigration" one "must be willing to pay some human costs." [2] The
dichotomy here is self-evident, yes? Obviously, one might think your
professing to look for "humane and unfanatic racialism" is nothing but
vapid and placatory disinformation as to your real intent: the ethnic
cleansing of Denmark by whatever means are necessary. 

Additionally, evidence of your sinister intent is only reinforced by your
comment regarding those who refuse to placidly be stripped of rightful
Danish citizenship and be deported to the third-world: "You just pick
somebody out here and there and thereby put pressure on the rest in order
to make them cooperate." [3]

Such blatant acts of intimidation and terrorism are a hallmark of "harsh
dictatorships." And you _have_ advocated such acts, Mr. Kreiberg.  

> Neither have I spoken of concentration camps - only temporary transit camps.

How odd. That's what the Nazis often called their concentration camps.
They also said they were "deporting" the Jews to "The East." Of course,
"The East" all too often ended at places like Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno,
Majdanek, Sobibor, and Treblinka....

Given your enthrallment to Nazi ideology and policies, Mr. Kreiberg, one
can't but help to wonder where _your_ "East" would end. 

[snip]

1. Message-ID: 

2. Message-ID: <8d0UnOev1SDR065yn@login.dknet.dk>

3. Message-ID: 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:44 PST 1996
Article: 79251 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!csulb.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news1.mpcs.com!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!Gamma.RU!srcc!demos!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 09:15:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 17
Message-ID: 
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:90469 alt.revisionism:79251

In article
,
 wrote:

[drivel snipped]

Yet another loon goes into my killfile. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:44 PST 1996
Article: 79255 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 07:53:53 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 79
Message-ID: 
References: <199611112031.PAA12560@vixa.voyager.net> <3287CA0E.6A59@kaiwan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3287CA0E.6A59@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> > 

[snip]

> > The problem, Mr. Raven, is that you also define the term Holocaust as
> > (1) "the murder of six million Jews," (2) "as a central act of state by
> > the Nazis," (3) "many in gas chambers."
> > (snip)
> 
> I do? If you were paying as much attention to what I actually say and
> write on this subject as you do to Hitler's birthday, you would have
> long ago discovered that this is NOT my definition of "the Holocaust." I
> direct your attention to the following URL:
> 
>         http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/misc/definition.html

Mr. Raven, after wading through your denier doublespeak and puerile
prevarications as to _your_ definition of "Holocaust," you convolutedly
write: 

"...I would propose that the term 'Holocaust' be defined as: 'The
mistreatment of Jewish civilians, primarily in Europe, at the hands of the
combatants during the Second World War (1939-1945).'" 

I would note your mis-use of "mistreatment" in the light that you also
wrote that:

"Revisionists believe that the "final solution" is only incidentally
related to the Holocaust, and did not involve extermination..."

...As denying the reality that the Final Solution was an explicit attempt
by the Nazi regime to exerminate European Jewry and, in fact, that the
Nazi regime did so exterminate some 6 million Jews in the attempt. 

If any more proof of your twisted denier mentality is required one need
only consider your closing parapgraph of your Nazi apoligia monologue:

"The proof of God's satisfaction with the Holocaust would then be the
establishment of the state of Israel, a reward for millions of silent,
unresisting Jewish victims. This further implies that Jewish resistance
was impertinent at best, and an affront to God at worst. The logical
extension of this interpretation is, then, that the perpetrators of the
Holocaust (however defined) were in the right, while the Jews (perhaps
uniquely among the victims) were in the wrong, if the growing body of
literature on Jewish resistance is to be given any credibility."

But then such immoral beliefs that blame the victims of Nazi mass murder
FOR being the victims of  Nazi mass murder and seeks to justify the
Holocaust in terms of "God's satisfaction," should hardly suprise us as
they come from a morally berift scam artist and Nazi apologist who has
stated his admiration for Hitler in no uncertain terms that he was "about
the best thing that could have happened to Germany."


Simply pathetic. 


For evidence of Mr. Raven's scurrilous Nazi apologia and lies, please visit: 

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/deny-holocaust.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/myopia.0195
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/lies-damn-lies.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/lies-damn-lies.02
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/physical-evidence.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/raven-quote-doctoring.01

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:45 PST 1996
Article: 79256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!news.duq.edu!newsfeed.pitt.edu!dsinc!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!newstand.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:33:49 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com> <565fe3$bk6@news.enter.net> <328c424a.4704216@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328c424a.4704216@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

> All the designs for present day cremation ovens can be compared
> to those of 50 years ago. The cremation capacities for the German
> ovens is one of the many Achilles heels to the Holocaust story.

Really? Then the Moran (tm) will kindly point out where a coke-fired
tripple-muffle cremation furnace that comingles the remains in continuous
operation is currently in use? 

[Moranic(tm) drivel snipped]

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:46 PST 1996
Article: 79324 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This makes 5... was Re: ***********
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 11:30:48 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com> <567hg2$ac4@news3.gte.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
mgiwer@gte.net wrote:

> Good God Giwer, aren¹t you tired of trying to run the Tampa ISP gamut ?

Evidently not. The Giwer-swine must have an obsessive-compulsive disorder
or something... 

For those using YA NewsWatcher on the Mac the using the following reg ex
on on the NNTP-Posting-Host field will solve the problem: 

tpm.*.gte.net


The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, and has generally conducted himself with such a
complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be
no point in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/forgeries.1096
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:47 PST 1996
Article: 79331 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 03:59:47 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References:  <328a41c3.4569320@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328a41c3.4569320@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

> This article is also focusing on putting a lot of blame on the
> United States and England. In a couple of more years the two countries
> might find themselves more responsible for the Holocaust than Germany.

Ho hum, here we go again.... More Moranic(tm) Nazi apologia and knee-jerk
bashing of the Allies. To suggest that the U.S. and Britain, who did not
murder the 12 million people in the Holocaust, "might find themselves more
responsible for the Holocaust than [Nazi] Germany" is the height of
absurdity. 

But then, the Moran (tm) _is_ certainly absurd!  

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:47 PST 1996
Article: 79333 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:02:15 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 60
Message-ID: 
References: <3286f60f.1533011@199.0.216.204> <567bak$qkb@news.enter.net> <328b4228.4670547@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328b4228.4670547@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> >>   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> >
> >>  I have seen many extra-extraordinary claims about how many
> >>  relatives individual Jews had lost in the Holocaust. One person said
> >>  he lost 120. Another said he lost 160, on his mother's side alone,
> >>  then admitted to a "retraction" and another person said she had a lot
> >>  of "photographs".
> >
> >That's a lie you filthy, bigoted chunk of human excrement.  A damend 
> >deliberate lie typical of your absolute inability to deal with Jews with 
> >any level of honesty.  There was -- and since it is true -- never will 
> >be a "retraction" of that >claim.  The "retraction" was of the offer 
> >to send you a list of the names after you  chortled about the "fun" 
> >you would have going ovver the list.
> >
> > I expect a "retraction" of your dispicable lie immediately.
> >
> >       --YFE
> 
> Since you have come out and identified yourself as one of the
> parties mentioned above, and you state the circumstances of the
> "retraction", maybe you should come out and post the particulars,
> complete with that exact accounts from any posts involved to show your
> demand to be justified.

The justification for the Moran (tm) to retract his anti-Semitic slander is:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:48 PST 1996
Article: 79334 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:26:26 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 71
Message-ID: 
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:22:32 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:
> >
> >>         
> >> Even though modern day cremation facilities take two and half
> >> hours to cremate one body...
> >
> >Another silly Moranic (tm) lie bites the dust:
> >
> >"...The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the
> >retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900
> >degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type
> >of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a
> >cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In
> >addition to the type of retort, the size of the individual and the number
> >of cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. For example,
> >in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two
> >hours and the second takes about an hour. That is because the retort
> >already has a high internal temperature at the beginning of the second
> >cremation...." 
> >
> >http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml#At what temperature
> >
>   [insults sniped]
> >Mark
> 
>  Excuse me for sticking my OHV in here but...
> My understanding was that the incinerators used coke as fuel and
> therefore ran at much lower temperatures than you refer to above.

Ah, Mr. Carpentrer, so nice of you to drop by.... 

First, I find it peculiar that you assume that high furnace temperatures
cannot be achieved by using coke. Did you "forget" that coke has been a
widely used fuel in open hearth and blast furnaces in the smelting of
metal-bearing ores? Such temperatures often easily exceed 2,000°F. 

Second, as usual, you "understand" wrong. According to the operating
instructions for the Topf double-muffle incineration furnace the furnace
temperature was between 800°C and 1,100°C (1,472-2,012°F). (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, p.136.) 

> That's 500F to 700F degrees less than todays retorts.  

No, Mr. Carpenter, it is not. It is from about 30°F cooler to 200°F hotter
than "modern day cremation facilities." 

> Lower temps. equate to slower burning rates. 

And higher temps to faster incineration rates as well then, yes? 

> One question: did they ever try "gasoline" from the adjacent Buna
> factory?

A question for you, Mr. Carpenter: Do you _ever_ do any research for yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:49 PST 1996
Article: 79337 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:03:41 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> 
> # Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
> # and half hours to cremate one body,
> 
> Nope. Look at the cremation web site. They say that some
> furnaces take less than an hour to burn a corpse. They
> also say that continuous cremation reduces the time by
> a factor of two, as the furnace is already hot.
> 
> This has been pointed out dozens of times.

The Moran (tm) is a bit "slow" on the uptake, evidently. 

The Moran (tm) is also, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged
in blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust
denial. The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete
lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point
in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented
evidence of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:11 PST 1996
Article: 79396 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: statistics and statistics
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 03:34:02 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <01bbcfd9$22d8b160$d34cb0c2@crw-p90-0> <5688n0$3el@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5688n0$3el@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   "Chris Whittington"  writes:
> 
>   
> >  But this is not quite the point that the original figures made.
> >  
> >  Are there figures of jewish populations from the period before Hitler/WWII,
> >  ie
> >  around or before 1993; and then for the period after WWII /
> >  Palestine->Israel, 
> >  allowing time for the chaos to subside, populations to settle down in
> >  place,
> >  census or reasonable methods of population counting to be carried out ?
> 
> >  Sorry, but I didn't read the newsgroup at that time.
> >  What was the situation for jewish immigration into the USA *after* the war
> >  ? Presumably the people claiming 'no holocaust' would argue that jewish
> >  population movement took place from the camps and eastern regions *after*
> >  WWII, and also after the British left Palestine in 1948.
> 
> A very good study of the movements of Jewish populations *after* World 
> War II can be found in "America and the Survivors of the Holocaust" Leonard 
> Dinnerstein, Columiba University Press 1982, which -- dispite of its title -- 
> has very complete statistics.  Dinnerstein deals both with immigration
figures 
> of Jewish survivors with an emphasis on both Palestine and the U.S.  He also 
> discusses and demonstrates the problems with dealing with the differences ib. 
> statistics maintained by the various agencies and governments dealing with 
> DPs.
> 
> The movement of Jewish survivors into the U.S. was quite slow and 
> resulted in several congressional investigations and a special Presidential 
> order. If you cannot find Dinnerstein's book you might start with one of the 
> most important documents -- the Report of Earl G. Harrison to President
Truman 
> in 1945.  It can  be found at "The Department of State Bulletin" 13:456-73 
> (1945)  which should be available at most university libraries.  It has very 
> few numbers but gives a good idea of the scope of the problem.

See also Hilberg's _The Destruction of the European Jews_, pp.715-738. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:11 PST 1996
Article: 79424 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:55:02 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com><32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <327d0df5.7417017@news.zippo.com> <567hg2$ac4@news3.gte.net> <56b7d8$hos$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56b7d8$hos$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <567hg2$ac4@news3.gte.net> - *@*.* (* *)Mon, 11 Nov 1996 15:41:25
> GMT writes:
> :>
> :>ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) wrote:
> :>
> :>>On Fri, 01 Nov 1996 07:01:46 GMT, jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John
> :>>Morris) wrote:
> :>
> :>>John, the killfile tactic didn't work - Giwer got around it and won.
> :>>His forgery strategy didn't work - you won. And so it will continue,
> :>>tit 4 tat.  Giwer took you all on, single handedly!
> :>
> :> Yes, I did.  And these children had to resort to lying and harrassing 
> :> my ISPs to silence me. They are all lying, jew cowards. Not one of 
> :> them will knock at my front door. They are all afraid. They are all 
> :> cowards. They are all shit pork >bait.  
> 
> "Shit pork bait"?  Oh please, Mr. McVay, please come out of retirement and
> translate this one.

I think the Giwer-swine was trying to say that he became mightily afraid
whilst sailing one day and shat himself when he almost fell overboard,
nearly becoming fishfood. After that he hid in the bilge until he made
port. (Or was that until he _drank_ port?)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:12 PST 1996
Article: 79436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 23:40:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <561ash$9lf@news.enter.net> <19961110182300.NAA09562@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961110182300.NAA09562@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[snip]

>  Yes but... Yes but... Like Voltaire,  I am not going
> to play definitional games with a partisan.
> Sequestered has a clear priority of meanings:
> temporary possession is a high one.

Bullshit, Mr. Allen. To claim that Jewish assets were "temporarily
possesed" by the Nazi regime, you must provide evidence that there was
on-going litigation by Jews regarding these "sequestered" assets and that
these assets were returned in the cases where such ligation in the Nazi
courts was decided in the favort of the Jewish litigants. 

As you have so far declined to provide such evidence, Mr. Allen, one can
only conclude you are, yet again, lying through your teeth.

[Mr. Allen's puerile preverications and rationlizations snipped.] 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:13 PST 1996
Article: 79443 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:11:00 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <199611112031.PAA12560@vixa.voyager.net> <3287CA0E.6A59@kaiwan.com> <56av4q$ui2@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56av4q$ui2@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian
Harmon) wrote:

> In article <3287CA0E.6A59@kaiwan.com>, Greg Raven   wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> >It never fails to amaze me to learn how closely people of your sexual
> >preference keep track of Hitler's birthday. 
> 
> Lordy, this is priceless.
> 
> Rather than cast asperisions about Mr. McCarthy, why don't
> you deal with the issues he raised?

Becuase asperisions are all he has? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:13 PST 1996
Article: 79454 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran: "Revisionist" Wacko
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 04:09:07 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <568vui$8ri@news.enter.net> <32888d62.661406@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32888d62.661406@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:


> ...I do not have any special words for his [Mr.Edeiken] view, 
> like "anti-Semitism" which is applied to those who reveal their
> attitudes and opinions about the Holocaust or any other Jewsih
> activity. All I have is 'Thanks' Mr.Edeiken, for your precident
> example that seriously challenges any objections to Holocaust
> revisionism.

Well, if the Moran (tm) has no opinions about his wallowing in his
anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial, I do:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:14 PST 1996
Article: 79473 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:19:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References:     <32892258.16059630@news.txdirect.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32892258.16059630@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
(Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

> On Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:59:14 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 

[snip]


> >[...] Tom Metzger and WAR incited said murder of Mulugeta Seraw. Bob 
> >Matthews and members of"The Order" went on a virtual terrorist rampage...
> 
> Mr. Van Alstine will be pleased to know that the man calling himself
> Winston Smith (who is, in reality Winston Covington -- a failed Nazi
> politician in Raleigh, N.C.)  lives in fear of his fellow Nazi,  Tom
> Metzger.  Rumor has it that Covington returned to North Carolina
> because Metzger had made his life quite uncomfortable on the West
> Coast.  Ah, the Calico Cat and the Gingham Dog live!

Too choice! ROTFL! I just love it when the Nazis start eating their own!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:39:26 PST 1996
Article: 1633 of soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!news.txdirect.net!news
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Subject: Re: Anyone have figures of how many Jews died?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 03:44:20 -0700
Organization: Internet Direct, Incorporated
Lines: 45
Approved: shoahmodapp@veritas.nizkor.org
Message-ID: <567i5q$7t6@viper.txdirect.net>
References: <5601hj$ffp@viper.txdirect.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: veritas.nizkor.org

In article <5601hj$ffp@viper.txdirect.net>, chlmarti@indiana.edu (charles
laurence martin) wrote:

> Does anyone have any figures as to the number of Jews that actually died
> due to starvation, murder, et cetera during the holocaust?
> 
> There seems to be some conflict in the information depicted by and 
> within the Jewish Studies Program here at Indiana University at 
> Bloomington.

Typically, an estimate of 6 million Jewish deaths are attributed to the
Holocaust. 

However, the actual number will probably never be known due to wartime
circumstances and Nazi secrecy. Respectable _estimates_ for the number of
Jews killed in the Holocaust varies between 5 and 6 million dead. Then of
course, there  was about between 5 and 6 million gentiles killed as well,
thus putting the death toll for the Holocaust somewhere between 10 and 12
million people. Almost all of whom were innocent noncombatants. 

For further details you might wish to read the chapter in Gutman and
Berenbaum's _Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_, entitled "The Number of
Victims" (pp. 61-76) by  Dr. Francisek Piper of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
State Museum. 

You also might reference Dr. Raul Hilberg's seminal _The Destruction of
the European Jews_, in particular chapter 10, tables 89 and 96
(pp.670,737) as well as Appendix III (p.767.).

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
-- The Nizkor Network -- An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
   http://www.nizkor.org            http://www.nizkor.org/search.html



From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 08:39:28 PST 1996
Article: 1634 of soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.fibr.net!news.txdirect.net!news
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish.holocaust
Subject: Re: Camps in Auschwitz and a Munitions Dump
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 23:33:27 -0700
Organization: Internet Direct, Incorporated
Lines: 56
Approved: shoahmodapp@veritas.nizkor.org
Message-ID: <567i3v$7t4@viper.txdirect.net>
References: <55tsil$ltn@viper.txdirect.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: veritas.nizkor.org

In article <55tsil$ltn@viper.txdirect.net>, Jamie Specht
 wrote:

> In Auschwitz-Birkenau there were several "smaller" camps within the main 
> camp. Camp D was closest to the Krematoriums and the gas chambers... 

Actually, Camp BIIf, the male prisoner's infirmary, was closer to Kremas
III, IV, and V than Camp BIId. Camp BIb was next to Krema II and the
"Canada" personal effects depot was adjacent to Krema IV. 

In fact, Camp BIId was basically smack in the middle of the Birkenau camp. 

> ...and I would like to know if anyone has any information regarding
which camp 
> the Sonderkommando stayed when not working in the kremas.  

The Sonderkommando _lived_ in Kremas II-V. They were not allowed to leave
the Krema compound, nor where they allowed to talk to other prisoners.
After each major "special action" the Sonderkommando was killed. 

> My friend (a Survivor) thinks that they were in one of the barracks of
Camp D, 
> which is where he was located.  He is wishing for clarification on this  
> matter.
> 
> Also, on December 25, 1945 there was a building blown up in 
> Auschwitz-Birkenau with a Red Cross painted on the top of it.  

Auschwuitz and its prisoners were liberated by the Soviets on January 27, 1945. 

> My friend learned from some of the other prisoners working there that 
> this was not a hospital, but rather an munitions dump.  

The "hospital" was located in BIIf, not BIId. To my knowlwdge there was no
munitions dump located in side the camp. However, during the evacuation of
Birkenau, Kremas II, III, and V were demolished with explosives by the SS
and thirty or so barracks in the "Canada" compound set on fire. 

[snip]

Mark

postyed/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
-- The Nizkor Network -- An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
   http://www.nizkor.org            http://www.nizkor.org/search.html



From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 09:26:21 PST 1996
Article: 79480 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:28:32 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References: <328b4228.4670547@199.0.216.204> <56b4ag$of3@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56b4ag$of3@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes
> 
> >       Since you have come out and identified yourself as one of the
> >  parties mentioned above, and you state the circumstances of the
> >  "retraction", maybe you should come out and post the particulars,
> >  complete with that exact accounts from any posts involved to show your
> >  demand to be justified.
> 
> Apparently you are studying at the criminal Giwer's school of bullshit 
> again.
> 
> You are are a gutless sack of scum  . . . . and you know it.


Mr. Edeiken is too kind. The Moran (tm) is far more than a mere "gutless
sack of scum." In fact...

...The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged
in blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust
denial. The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete
lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point
in taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented
evidence of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 14 10:19:42 PST 1996
Article: 79481 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now it's SEVEN !?! million
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:35:25 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <3288E0B7.4C48@copper-mt.com> <329335df.4307987@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329335df.4307987@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> ...When ridiculous assertions are made and then are challenged, escalate the 
> assertions. Thats "chutzpa" for you.

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Talking about Moranic (tm) chutzpah.... Go see for yourself! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:00 PST 1996
Article: 79492 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:29:22 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com> <328c424a.4704216@199.0.216.204> <328967DF.5DFE@west.net> <328adbc5.674533@199.0.216.204>  <328d265a.335207@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328d265a.335207@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> Cry "liar" all you want. The more you cry it, the feebler you
> look.

On the contrary. One need only peruse the Nizkor archives to seem the
evidence that the Moran (tm) is a profuse and feeble liar.

And, of course, that anything he utters should be suspect until backed up
with hard factual evidence.

[snip]

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:02 PST 1996
Article: 79535 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:38:00 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <55r90b$f75@newsbf02.news.aol.com>  <328bbf09.627417108@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bbf09.627417108@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Mr. Smith's infantile vulgarities snipped] 

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:02 PST 1996
Article: 79542 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:35:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <561ash$9lf@news.enter.net> <19961110182300.NAA09562@ladder01.news.aol.com> <328bbd38.626952671@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bbd38.626952671@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> The entire Holocaust Industry is completely premised on using key
> words completely against their obvious and intended meaning, or
> reading them as "German code words" with absolutely no proof for such
> creative interpretations.   As the public becomes increasingly aware
> of this fact they will throw the smelly Holocaust trash in the garbage
> where it belongs.  Good riddance.
> 
> Kurt Stele

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 
>  

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:03 PST 1996
Article: 79543 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:19:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com>  <328bc695.629350042@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bc695.629350042@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Nov 1996 22:12:36 -0500, jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy)
> wrote:
> 
> >Oh, it isn't really Franz Suchomel on the tape.  I see.
> >
> >Please explain why the real Franz Suchomel has not denounced this
> >interview as a forgery and sued the hell out of the filmmakers.
> 
> That Suchomel "didn't sue" is not necessarily determinative but nice
> try.  Please explain how they could have hidden the camera.  
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
> 
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:04 PST 1996
Article: 79544 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is Kreiberg a Fake Dane?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:22:47 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <55u87s$d7b@news.enter.net> <328bc215.628197285@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bc215.628197285@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Mr. SMith's rabid slobbering snipped]

> "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
> 
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:04 PST 1996
Article: 79553 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 31 Questions Mr. Smith won't answer
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:47:28 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <569svd$bqi@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <328b95ec.616890896@news.micron.net> <56g7vu$ron@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56g7vu$ron@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Kurt Stele (kurtstel@micron.net) wrote:
> 
> : Many of the answers to the above can be found at:
> 
> No.  A few, carefully selected answers to some of the above can be
> found at:
> 
> : http://www.natall.com/WHORULES/WHORULES.HTML
> 
> Which is the website of the neo-nazi National Alliance.
> 
> : It lists which Jews control or own which media company, and  discusses
> : publishing too:   quite informative.   As it turns out, Jews have a
> : veritable monopoly on the media, including motion pictures,
> : television, and newspapers.  As the result, the mass media's biases
> : reflect Jewish tastes, values, and agenda.   That is why the
> : "Holocaust" lie is given such high billing but Jewish atrocities
> : against Palestinians are typically downplayed.   They can't use the
> : old "What about Ted Turner!" ruse anymore since Turner now works for
> : Gerald Levin of Time-Warner.  
> 
> 
> No, but we can still use the old "Who gives a shit?"  ruse.
> 
> Really, Kurt--nobody on this whole planet, except you and your
> fellow loonies, cares about the ethnic roots of media moguls.
> Without your collectivist mentality to give it substance, there's
> just nothing there.

Er, even _with_ Mr. Smith's "collectivist" (read "Nazi") mentality there
is nothing there! Never was and never will be. (Other than Mr. Smith's
rabid anti-Semitism and Nazi apologia, that is....)

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:05 PST 1996
Article: 79558 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:32:31 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <19961107051200.AAA28883@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961109051900.AAA09882@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <328bbbba.626569878@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bbbba.626569878@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Mr. Smith's Nazi whining snipped]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context


"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

 For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:06 PST 1996
Article: 79563 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now it's SEVEN !?! million
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:15:38 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <3288E0B7.4C48@copper-mt.com> <3292f10a.6119304@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3292f10a.6119304@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

>         There was also an article of late that cited a claim that the
> 6,000,000 number might be more like 7,000,000. this is the Jewish
> trait, to keep on escalating numbers. It is nothing more than
> harrassment, a process of "chutzpa". 
>         Pretty soon, we might be finding the claim that the other 5, 6, 7
> million non Jews said to have been killed in the Holocaust were really
> Jewish. Maybe it might even hit a 100,000,000, a 1,000,000,000. Who
> knows? There seems to be no limits to the exaggeration technique.


The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:06 PST 1996
Article: 79582 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Giwer-Swine (tm)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:13:50 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 76
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5



=============================================================================

Subject:     Re: MARK VAN ALSTINE: A PROFILE IN DESPERATION
Sent:        11/15/96 1:42 PM
To:          Matt Giwer, *@*.*

>On Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:31:44 -0800, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) 
>wrote in
>alt.revisionism:
>
>>In article <54snmd$3d7@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:
>
>>[Herr Wankermeister's mindless yapping snipped]
>
>>> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
charged that 
>>> the Germans invented" device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near 
>>> Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." IMT blue 
>>> series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21, 1946).  No reputable historian now 
>>> accepts this fanciful tale. 
>
>>Obviously, Herr Wankermeister is sharing whatever swill of the week the
>>gonadotoxic Giwer-swine is guzzling. 
>
>  Just what are you going to do when you find your shit lies on a website as a
>condemnation of holohuggers?

=============================================================================


Mr. Giwer, 

You are hearby notified (again) that I do _not_ wish to recieve any
corrospondance whatsoever from you, and that any further unsolicited
private corrospondance from you will be considered harrassment and dealt
with accordingly. Furthermore, any e-mail that I recieve  will be made
public at my discretion. 

***

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine (tm) is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying); refused to
document claims; pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him);
engaged in actual libel; blatant and offensive anti-Semitism; Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, prolifically abused the 'Net, sent e-mailbombs,
and harrassed people via e-mail; forged posts; and has generally conducted
himself with such a complete lack of moral, intellectual, and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond to such a perverted animal.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/giwer.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov 15 06:33:07 PST 1996
Article: 79583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The return of the porous pillar (part 47)
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:43:26 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <56bhvg$a75@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56bhvg$a75@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

>   Veteran dogs here remember perhaps how my clothes were teared and
>  my calfs were bitten to blood when I brought as an argument that
>  the 'porous pillars' of the holocaust claim were solid concrete
>  rather than empty. I've still the marks of H. Mazal canine teeths
>  in my right buttock.
> 
>    Basically he explained me that I was stup.. wrong because it is
>  a wiremesh that was used. However my claim was based on a video
>  sell by Zundel, 'the holocaust revisited, part 2'. I remember also
>  that I brought a book, the french edition of Filip Muller' book
>  where he stated that the pillars used to spread the gaz were of
>  concrete and perforated with holes. However, the german edition
>  state something quite different, closer to what seems to be the
>  more official version. So we have now at least Dragon, Tauber,
>  Muller who talked about metallic wiremesh. In shoah however, at
>  the end of cassette 4 or 3 (I think it is 3) a voice (Muller) describe
>  the maquette at the Auschwitz museum and say 'porous pillar that heldup 
>  this structure'... ouach!! Well, it seems that we have an official
>  version that vary sometimes here also. The maquette show really
>  concrete empty pillars and the voice (Muller) say: porous pillars
>  that held up this structure. Ok, I'm not claiming anything, I just
>  found it funny.
> 
>   Ok, I've the impression now that a dutch spaniel will bit my leg
>  with a 800 lines incisive reply.

No, need. The French poodle is doing a fine job of chewing on his hind leg.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:36 PST 1996
Article: 79633 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newstf01.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:16:30 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 172
Message-ID: 
References: <19961107051200.AAA28883@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961109051800.AAA09877@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <3289d7bf.59280609@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3289d7bf.59280609@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
Curtis) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> posted/emailed
> 
> >In article <19961109051800.AAA09877@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
> >wrote:
> 
> >> Any significant property of deported Jews was to 
> >> be "sequestered".  Sequestion is a form of trust.
> >
> 
> Mark, where did this "sequestered" come from to be placed in quotes? I
> realize you didn't do it, but Mr. Allen prefers not to answer my
> questions.

Mr. Curtis, I believe Mr. Allen's disingenous use of the "sequestered"
resulted from my pointing out the following:

==============================================================================

Subject:      Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
From:         mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Date:         1996/10/30
Message-Id:   
References:   <551ef4$ag@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
<5566tf$mbh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>

[snip]

"In the bureaucracy one thing at least was certain: the Jews were not
expected back in Germany. In 1942, certainly by 1943, most of them were
dead. The dead Jews left behind them a legacy which was to occupy the
bureaucrats for months and years: personal property, apartments, Jewish
community property, blocked accounts, goods in customs houses, sequestered
securities, firms and real estate still under trusteeship, credits and
debts, pensions, insurance, and inheritance problems. All these odds and
ends, unliquidated expropriations and unfinished business, were now
dropped into the laps of the Finance Ministry's experts." (Hilberg,
_Destruction_, p.300.) 

[snip]

"By the end of 1942, the Aryanizations in Belgium were largely
completed.... The value of sequestered Jewish assets (_u"berwachtes
Judenvermo"gen_) in reichmark is indicated in Table 57. We should hasten
to add that the banks were slow in reporting Jewish accounts; therefore
the amount of cash in the banks - swelled by the proceeds from the sale of
nearly six hundred enterprises - was much greater than the six million
reichmarks indicated in the _Milita"rbefehlshaber's_ report. Nevertheless,
the total deposit ultimately accumulated in Belgium must have fallen far
short of the half-billion figure which was surpassed in Holland.... (Ibid.
p.386.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TABLE 57 / Value of Sequestered Jewish Assets [Ibid. p.386.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   End of 1941            End of 1942
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cash in banks                        none                  6,150,000
Securities and papers                80,000,000           70,650,000
Real estate parcels (2814)           36,000,000           50,000,000
      Total                         116,000,000          126,800,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

==============================================================================


> >sequester vt. 1 to set off or apart; seperate; segragate; often to
> >segragate or isolate (the jury) during a trial 2 to takw and hold
> >(property) by judicial authority, for safekeeping or as a security until a
> >legal dispute is resolved 3 to take over; confiscate, seize, esp. by
> >authority 4 to withdraw; seclude: often used reflexively
> >
> >_Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition). 
> >
> >Clearly, Mr. Allen, you have overlooked the more appropriate definition
> >given the context that Jewish property was _confiscated_ by the Nazis and
> >never ligated over and never returned. 
> >
> 
> I'd like to know about the "Aryan" property they "sequestered." I
> recall a German lady tell me that they would bury their silverware and
> dishes in their gardens so the SS wouldn't steal it. She didn't use
> the word "sequestered. "

Hilberg goes into this in some detail in _Destruction_. 
Try sections VIII (Deportations) and IX (Killing Center Operations). 

> >> The whole German legal system relating to
> >> sequestered property was one of trust.  
> >
> >Why was Jewish property in "trust," Mr. Allen? What _legal disputes_,
> >specifically were under litigation by Jews from Germany, Poland, Belguium,
> >Denmark, etc. against the Nazi government concerning this Jewish
> >property?  
> >
> 
> I'm interested in where all this law is being found and what Mr.
> Allen's sources are.

I too am interested in this. Any bets on whether Mr. Allen will respond
with some factual information instead of his usual denier pablum? 

> >> Certain debts and expenses were to be paid out but
> >> the system presumed that the remainder would
> >> be returned to its owners.
> >
> >What debts and expenses where these, specifically, Mr. Allen? Why where
> >these debts "incurred" in the first place?  Why did the Nazis _confiscate_
> >Jewish assets and never it to its rightful owners? 
> >
> 
> Heck, where is this "system" documented for Mr. Allen.

Indeed. One part of the this Nazi "system" (aka _Schutzstaffen_) did
indeed use the Jewish assets it confiscated to pay debts and expenses,
however, any left over "proceeds" from such Nazi theivery were never
returned, nor intended to be returned to its rightful owners, but
"re-invested" in the Nazi killing machine:

"...Most important of all, the Reichsbank and the Golddiskontbank had to
establish a fund from which the SS could borrow money to finance its
various activities. This loan, known as the Reinhardt fund, infused the SS
industries with new life. The SS combine owed 6,831,279.54 reichsmark to
the SS Savings Bank Association and 1,000,000 reichsmark to the German Red
Cross; these debts could now be repaid. In addition, some money was plowed
into capital expansion. After the conclusion of these arrangements the
dissaproving took the occasion to 'warn' Puhl against visiting the
concentration camps in connection with the credits." (Hilberg,
_Destruction_, p.618.) 

> >> Your quote shows that the property was put
> >> in trust and managed.  
> >
> >Bullshit, Mr. Allen. All that has been shown is that you are dishonest in
> >the extreme.
> 
>  This has always been an assumed given where Mr. Allen is
> concerned.

I know, just wanted to make it crystal clear.... };-> 

> >> Other reports show that some was returned.
> >
> >Sources please?
> 
> Thanks for asking, but I don't get we'll get much in the way of
> specifics.

You giving odds? (Say 50:1?) };-> 

> > How much of the confiscated Jewish assets was returned to
> >the righful owners or their heirs? How much was not? 


Mark


posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:38 PST 1996
Article: 79635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another old man kicked out of U.S.
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:14:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References: <32943bac.5792939@199.0.216.204>  <328bc960.630064498@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328bc960.630064498@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:36:56 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32943bac.5792939@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
> >wrote:
> >
> >[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]
> >
> >> It also shows to what extent Jewish organizations have to access
> >> U.S. records and to what extent they have gone over them.  
> >
> >The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
> >blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
> 
> You can determine only as far as your knee-jerk Pavlovian constipated
> little Holohoax fantasies can take you.
> 
> >The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
> >intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
> >taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
> >of this, please refer to:
> >
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom
> 
> More Nizkor unauthorized use promoted by Van Smellstine.
> 
> >But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
> >beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
> >Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? 
> 
> What's a dud at the box-office? That's easy.  Anything the Jews who
> run Hollywood don't want.  
> 
> http://www.natall.com/WHORULES/WHORULES.HTML
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the
> destroyers. Nothing you can do  will meet our demands and
> needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of
> our  own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels,
> p. 155).

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:38 PST 1996
Article: 79687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:20:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

>         Once we recognize how the story is put together, we can
> understand why the story lacks anything that could suggest a master
> plan. 
> 
>         Now all we have to do is wait and see if this new alibi for no
> master plan will become a full blown 'revision'. You know. Complete
> with the denials that any master plan was ever claimed.


The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:39 PST 1996
Article: 79688 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Doin' the National Appliance Polka: Brian Smith
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 00:18:03 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References: <846101891$22870@atype.com> <846117382$24861@atype.com> <846180184$199@atype.com> <846203588$2628@atype.com> <846205434$2982@atype.com> <846211684$3615@atype.com> <846216185$3966@atype.com> <54plll$fa9@is05.micron.net> <32718d4a.5233509@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56haqj$hqb@news3.gte.net> <328e4e2b.55610083@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328cc4d8.694450081@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328cc4d8.694450081@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 11:06:12 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
> Morris) wrote:
> 
> >In <56haqj$hqb@news3.gte.net>, *@*.* (* *) wrote:
> >
> >>jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >>>A guy dumb enough to belong to a neo-Nazi organization like the
> >>>National Alliance believes in a crackpot theory that whitewashes the
> >>>patron saint of his religion, Adolf Hitler.
> >
> >>>Go figure.
> >
> >> Obviously the National Alliance has more truth on its side than the
idiot, > >> lying >holohuggers.  
> >
> >Matt Giwer hates Jews, denies the Holocaust, and thinks that the
> >National Alliance has some truth on its side.
> >
> >Go figure.
> 
> Nice try holohugging shit.   Your gassing hoax is a lying piece of
> filth.  The best you can do is to attack the messenger.  
> 
> Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:40 PST 1996
Article: 79717 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kube Also Reports: Ten Weeks, 55,000 Murdered
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:20:46 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <327dfc2e.251062@199.0.216.204> <568m3p$fbr$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <32912afa.1518511@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32912afa.1518511@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> What with all the talk about it all being a secret it isn't
> likely some underling would commit himself to write in a letter "at
> the Fuehrers orders".
> 
>         It's ridiculous.

Speaking about things ridiculous:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:41 PST 1996
Article: 79739 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed1.aimnet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer-Swine (tm)
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:23:02 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References:  <328cc5af.694665374@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328cc5af.694665374@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Van Smallstine and other holohuggers continually send e-mail
> unsoliticitously to revisionists.   As usual they dish out their feces
> in spades but complain sanctimoniously when receiving. 

Actually, No. I no longer hold private dialogues with Holocaust deniers.
(Haven't generally for some time now- it's a waste of time, IMHO.)
Certainly not with animals like the Giwer-Swine, or rabid Nazis like Mr.
Smith.  

Furthermore, the extent of my sending unsolicited e-mail to Holocaust
deniers was in e-mailing a courtesy copy of my reply their posts.
Furthermore, when asked to stop sending said courtesy copies I have
cheerfully complied to the best of my ability. 

In the Giwer-swine's particular case, some time ago he demanded that I
stop sending courtesy copies of my replies to his insane and drunken
rants. I have complied with his request. In return, I informed him that I
no longer wished to hear from him privately and would publish any e-mail
he sent to me. 

Of course, the Giwer-swine could no longer contain himself, and in a
drunken pique e-mailed me (in his typically craven fashion) an insane and
drunken rant with a forged address. 

What a wretched husk of a man the Giwer-swine is, he's so ashamed of
himself he cannot even bring himself to post with his own name. 

Truly pathetic; which reminds me:

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:43 PST 1996
Article: 79754 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Repost] Tom Moran: A Chronicle of Lies (Month 10)
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 06:05:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References: <56hifo$50n@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <328cc75b.695093720@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328cc75b.695093720@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Smallstine the Nizkook witch-doctor and his band of Holocaust Lie
> proponents cannot produce the goods for their shoddy little Gassing
> Farce, and so in turn they can only belch out more Nizkook URL's.   

Speaking of URL's:

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

[Mr. Smith's Nazi whining snipped]

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers. "

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:44 PST 1996
Article: 79759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Who Rules America?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 06:12:58 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <56gsou$mu4@camel4.mindspring.com> <328d0bc5.38609360@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328ccbf2.696268952@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328ccbf2.696268952@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:25:07 GMT, John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John
> Morris) wrote:
> 
> >In <56gsou$mu4@camel4.mindspring.com>, jimkonen@atl.mindspring.com
> >("Truth") wrote:
> >
> >>There is no greater power in the world today than that wielded by the
> >>manipulators of public opinion in America. No king or pope of old, no
> >>conquering general or high priest ever disposed of a power even
> >>remotely approaching that of the few dozen men who control America's
> >>mass news and entertainment media. 
> >
> >Yeah, yeah. It's the Jews. Blah blah blah.
> 
> Then refute it you equivocating sod.

Contrary to Mr. Smith's knee-jerk Nazi response, there's no need to
"refute" anything. The anti-Semitism in the above rant is self-evident for
all to see. 

...For those with even a half a brain, that is.  Alas, that would leave
Mr. Smith without in the dark, under a rock, as usual.  

[Mr. Smith's Nazi ranting snipped] 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:45 PST 1996
Article: 79767 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Been Fun
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:51:46 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 227
Message-ID: 
References:  <328b922d.615931368@news.micron.net>  <328cccb8.696466597@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328cccb8.696466597@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:21:48 -0800, Kimberley Ahlf
>  wrote:
> 
> >For the record, here is what has occurred in terms of the production of
> >evidence on the threads in question as of this date:
> >
> >Evidence Ahlf has provided:
> >
> >1) Quote from Hitler's _Mein Kampf_, which Stele denies being relevant
> 
> Said one can only "remove the Jews' hand from the throat by the
> sword."  You automatically assume in classic holohugger style that
> this means extermination.  

Yes. 

> Nowhere does it say anywhere that Hitler's
> goal was to "enslave and destroy other races."  

Yet Hitler attempted just that. How prophetic.

> >2) Quote from Hitler's 1922 speech, which Stele denies being reliable
> 
> The speech quote you gave has Hitler saying the first I'm going to do
> when coming to power is destroy all Jews.  Yet this is written not
> even in _Mein Kampf_, not even in the NDSDAP platform and nowhere
> else.  

So? 

> Just another infamous "speech quote" from Hitler.   

How inconvienant for you Nazis, I'm sure.

> Rather, one of the first things Hitler did upon coming to power to sign the
> transfer agreement with Jews for emigration of Jews to Palestine
> allowing them to take their wealth out of Germany....

This, of course, is technically incorrect. According to Hilberg:

"...Jews emigrating to Palestine were given a special opportunity by the
so-called _Haavara_ agreement. This agreement was concluded by the German
Reich and the Jewish Agency for Palestine. In form, it was a modified
clearing arrangement. Under its terms a Jewish 'capitalist' who wanted to
emigrate to Palestine was permitted to make a contract with a German
exporter for the transfer of goods from Germany to Palestine. The German
exporter was paid with funds drawn from the blocked account of the
emigrating Jew. The emigrant recieved his Palestinian currency from the
Jewish Agency upon arrival in Palestine. In short, the channels were as
follows:

Jewish Emmigrant's 
blocked account                  Emmigrant
      |                             |
      |                            /|\
      | Payment in                  |  Payment in 
      | Reichsmarks                 |  pounds
      |                             |
     \|/                            |
      |           Export to         |
German Ex[prter ------------> Jewish Agency 

The Jewish Agency and the exporters wee just as satisfied with this
arrangement as the emigrants themselves. German goods poured into
Palestine, and after a while, the Havaara clearing agreement providing for
the exchange of Palestine oranges for German timber, wrapping paper, motor
cars, pumps, agricultural machinery, etc. It seemed as though the economic
relations between Nazi Germany and the Jewish community in Palestine were
excellent. Naturally, there was some dissatisfication in the Nazi Party,
the Foreign Office's Germany  Referat (which was to deal with Jewish
matters), and, last but not least, the Palestine Germans, who complained
that their interests had been neglected utterly in favor of the Jews.
Nevertheless, this interesting arrangement survived." (_Destruction_,
p.95.) 

In contrast "normal" foriegn currency exhcanges for Jews (e.g. Jewish
"capitalist" do business abroad), as carried out by the General
Trusteeship Office for Jewish emigration imposed an exchange rate on Jews
that robbed them of 50 percent of the value of their currency for all
currency exchanges other than Palestinian currency. This extortion
continued up until 1938 when Jewish emmigration applications were no
longer accepted. (cf. Ibid. pp.94-95.) 

Even worse was the plight of Jewish emmigrants to countries other than
Palestine. Under the so-called "free currency zone" each emmigrant was
allowed to take along 10 reichsmark in foreign currency at the official
exchange rate. For a family of three emmigrating to the U.S., for example,
this would have amounted to $24. (cf. Ibid. p.94.) 

Obviously, according the above, Jewish "capitalist" emmigrants to
Palestine was a very special case. One that was used to subsidize German
exports, rather than allow Jews to leave the country with their wealth. In
comparison, most Jews were extremely limited by the Nazis as to how much
currency they would take with them _if_ they could emmigrate to a country
that would accept them. 

[Mr. Smith's beating of a dead Nazi propanda horse snipped]

>...And still Hitler did not attack Jews.

No, at this point. Hitler just robbed the Jews blind. Killing them came
later, after all their assets had been confiscated.

> >3) Cited Roosevelt's committee to study atomic weaponry, which responded
> >   to an irrelevant challenge for proof from Stele, but when this proof
> >   was given Stele tried later to change the text of his challenge.
> 
> I asked you an additional and far easier question because you appeared
> too lame to answer your intitial assertions. 

In other words, Mr. Smith weaseled, prevaricated, and whined when cornered. 

Typical Nazi. 

> You then assume this answers them and accuse me of changing the challenge.

And rightly so, as Mr. Smith _did_ try to change the topic. 

> >4) Cited Einstein'd letter warning Roosevelt of Germany's potential nukes.
> >   Stele ignored this evidence
> 
> Doesn't prove Hitler was an "aggressive" threat simply because he may
> have developed nuclear capability.  

Obviously, Mr. Smith is unfamiliar with the meaning of the words
"aggressive" and "threat." 

I suggest he look them up in a dictionary. 

> The Soviets overtly declared their intention of subverting America and
burying 
> it and the Soviets developed nukes, and America did not declare war on them.

Mr. Smith tosses out yet another fetid red herring for our inspection. 

The United States did not declare war on Germany because they were an
"agressive threat." The United States declared war on Gemrany because
_Germany_ declared war on the United States.

>  Yet there is no support for a German intention to "invade" the U.S., not even
> bogus Hitler quotes.  

So? (Not that the cited quotes from Hitler are "bogus" in any way.) 

> The only reason why the Allies declared war on
> Hitler is because Hitler refused to participate in the international
> finance (i.e., the gold standard) and his booming debt-free economy
> would have caused the eventual collapse of international finance....

More dead fish. Britain and France, abiding by their treaty commitments, 
declared war on Gemrany _because_ Germany _invaded_ Poland. The Soviets
declared war on Germany because Gemrany _invaded_ the USSR. The United
States declared war on Germany because Germany _declared_ war on the
United States _first_. 

Why is this so difficult for Mr. Smith to comprehend? Did he flunk World
History in high school or what? (Did Mr. Smith even _finish_ high school?)


[Mr. Smith's absurd Nazi drivel snipped]

> >5) Cited Hitler's conquest of France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, etc...
> >   to provide evidence of Hitler's known aggressive threat.
> >   Stele continues to belittle this evidence, insisting that these
> >   occupied countries were not conquests, but rather, German "outposts."
> 
> You are so dumb you believe after Britain and France declared war on
> Germany first you think Germany should leave open beach-heads for
> Allied invasion... 

But that is _exactly_ what Hitler did. That's why the start of WWII
between Britain, France, and Germany, was called the Phony War. Hitler
very well knew that neither Britain or France were quite prepared
militarily, not to mention psychologically, to invade Germany. That much
was proven when Germay reoccupied the  Rhineland. At that time (1936) the
German military was inferior to Britain's and France's. Not so in 1939. 

...or invasion through other countries by Soviets.

Of course, Hitler had _every_ intention of invading the USSR at the first
opportunity. And he did. 

> Then I suppose the Allied invasion of other countries were wrong as
> well.

You suppose wrong. As usual. Must be Nazi Myopia (tm). 

> >6) Cited Hitler's having declared war on the US prior to US
> >   declaration of war on Germany.  Stele denied that a declaration of war
> >   is a reliable indication of threat.  Ironically, in the very same post
> >   Stele *faulted* Britain and France for declaring war on Germany.
> 
> Britain and France declared war on Germany first and you try to
> downplay this. The U.S. was sinking German vessels in the open seas
> for years.  

No, the U.S. was _not_ "sinking German vessels in the open seas for
years." The first U.S. Navy warshot against a "German vessel" (a suspected
U-boat) did not occur until April 11, 1941. (cf. van der Vat, _The
Atlantic Campaign_, p.182.) 

> The US had already declared war on Germany first in deed.

By such "logic," then, one can just as easliy assert that Germany declared
war against the Allies by reoccupying the Rhineland in 1936.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:45 PST 1996
Article: 79771 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another old man kicked out of U.S.
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:36:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <32943bac.5792939@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32943bac.5792939@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> It also shows to what extent Jewish organizations have to access
> U.S. records and to what extent they have gone over them.  

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:47 PST 1996
Article: 79778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian,alt.philosophy.objectivism,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.fbi,sci.physics,alt.war,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Announce: Neutron Bomb--Its Unknown History and Moral Purpose
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:34:29 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <329185b8.790590@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.libertarian:233570 alt.philosophy.objectivism:91487 alt.politics.org.cia:14840 alt.politics.org.fbi:6415 sci.physics:111477 alt.war:24162 alt.revisionism:79778

In article <329185b8.790590@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> >           New Book Available--Download for Free
> >   Provocative, Educational, Entertaining, Enlightening


[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:48 PST 1996
Article: 79787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:56:02 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:91732 alt.revisionism:79787

In article <56hsb5$rhu$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <328b4cc1.2248989@news.spry.com> - klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis)Thu,
> 14 Nov 1996 16:47:32 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:01:34 -0500, Hardwire
> :> wrote:
> :>
> :>
> :>>Sara (aka Prrrefect)... Blow me.
> :>
> :>Are you _sure_ you are not the Giwer pig or his son? You are as
> :>crude and repugnant as he. Perhaps it is just being in the Giwer
> :>pigs vicinity that has turned you into an ugly fool.
> 
> He's Giwer, no doubt about it.  Doing his damndest to post in a semi-coherent
> fashion, but Sara got his goat, and he stupidly reverted to "normal" gross,
> vulgar old Matt.  He lost again.

Yup. Sara's got that li'l pig a squealin' for his momma!


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:48 PST 1996
Article: 79789 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:16:39 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <3293973e.5276370@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi141.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293973e.5276370@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> Holocaust propagandists citing the "Wannasee Conference" are out
> to show a premeditated master plan by Germany to exterminate all the
> Jews.

Hardly suprising, considering that the Wannsee Protocol did _exactly_ that:

The formalizing of the "premeditated master plan by Germany to exterminate
all the [European] Jews."

For those interested in more about the Wannsee Protocol and what a few
Nazi officials wrote in regards to the "Jewish Question" prior to and
_after_ the Wannsee Conference was held, please visit:

http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~german/gtext/nazi/wanneng2.html
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~german/gtext/nazi/wanger.html
http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca/ftp.cgi?holocaust/germany/documents/no-365
http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca/ftp.cgi?holocaust/germany/documents/frank.d.001
http://nizkor.almanac.bc.ca/ftp.cgi?holocaust/germany/documents/frank.d.002

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 16 06:59:49 PST 1996
Article: 79806 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!out2.nntp.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:15:57 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 72
Message-ID: 
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <328bdd82.1119206@199.0.216.204>  <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>
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In article <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> We shouldn't overlook the "4,000,000 Variant" which was the
> Russian estimate for Auschwitz ovens, which is now accepted as being
> so wrong that 3,000,000 people were deleted from the story. We
> shouldn't overlook that this number prevailed for 50 years.

Indeed "we" shouldn't overlook the intellectual dishonesty of the deniers
(the Moran (tm) included) who have promulgated the fallacious "4,000,000
Variant:"

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/4-million-variant
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/4-million-variant-02

> The cremation rates are the enemy of the Holocaust story.

In the contrary. For example the cremation rates at Auschwitz were,  as
extrordinary as they were, in accordance with the number of victims who
were incinerated there: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/furnace-capacity.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/cremation.009
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/hoess-on-open-burning
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/furnace-capacity-analysis

The only enemies of the Holocaust are the anti-Semites and Holocaust
deniers like the Moran (tm). When the "caliber" of such enemies is
considered, one can hardly feel the historicty of the Holocaust is
threatened by their misrepresentation of creamtion rates.... 

> You can wail and gnash your teeth all you want out here on this
> format, but when it all is presented to the open mind, it is one of
> big convincing points for revisionism.

More truthfully, when the evidence is presented to those with open minds,
the last shreds of denier pseudo-history is blown away by the winds of
History to expose the denier's quasi-religious dogma as nothing more than
simple hate-mongering, anti-Semitism, and Nazi idolatry. 

Speaking of hate-mongers, anti-Semites, and Nazi idolaters:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:49 PST 1996
Article: 79874 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 03:45:59 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 124
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>
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In article <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

>         For anyone who would like to witness examples of allegations that
> Germany had a master plan for the destruction of Jews, all that is
> necessary is to read the intros to most books on the Holocaust.

But didn't the Moran (tm) just post, in article
<3293973e.5276370@199.0.216.204>, that "Holocaust propagandists [are]
citing the 'Wannasee [sic] Conference' [and] are out to show a
premeditated master plan by Germany to exterminate all the Jews?"

It appears that the Moran has, among more his other, sordid failings, an
"attention deficit" problem. 

Such is the (pathetic) life of a denier gadfly, it seems....

>         "... fat for soap, hair for mattresses and bone for fertilizer"
> was one of the most pre-eminent, forefront allegations of the
> Holocaust story that even Jews have had to acquiesce to as being lies.

As to the issue of the ersatz _Rein Judisch Fett_ (Pure Jewish Fat) soap
rumor a little honesty seesm in order. (Something that the Moran (tm)
seems incabable of embracing.) 

For those interested in the truth, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/stutthof/danzig-soap-evidence
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/stutthof/soap-photos
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/sereny.gitta/soap-experimentation
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/lipstadt.deborah/soap.05
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/stutthof/soap.01


As to the issue of the use of human hair taken from concetration camp
inmates, as well as the murdered victims, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/dachau/use-of-hair
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/documents/no-1257

As to the issue of the bones of the murdered victims and their being used
for fertilizer:

The bones of the victims were pulverized so they would not be recognized
as bones. The reason for this, according to Ho"ss, was that shortly after
Himmler's summer of 1942 visit to Auschwitz Himmler gave the order for the
mass graves (which contained about 100,000 corpses) be opened and the
corpses cremated. The order further stated that all the ashes be disposed
of 
so that later it could not be determined how many victims were killed. 
(_Death Dealer_, p.33.) Obviously, Himmlers orders were left standing 
for the remainder of Auschwitz's operation.

Just as obviously, disposing of the victims' remains to hide the fact that
at Auschwitz, for example, the hundreds of thousands of people were
murdered in homicidal gas chambers would have hardly made sense if the
Nazis allowed tons of intact and  recognizable human bones to be openly
scattered across the fields- and  paths. Ergo, the bones were pulverized.

But why scatter gritty ashes across the fields? Hardly surprising, aside
>from  the Nazi intent to hide their heinous deed, when one remembers that
many of the satellite camps of Auschwitz were farm steads and agricultural
research camps. Ash, of course, especially bone ash (which is mainly
calcium phosphate), makes great fertilizer. (Same for bone meal, i.e.
finely ground bone, which is used even today as an animal feed stock and
fertilizer.) 

bone ash - A white ash consisting primarily of tribasic calcium phosphate
obtained by burning bones in air; used in cleaning jewelry and in some
pottery. 

calcium phosphate - 1. Any phosphate of calcium. 2. Any of the following
three calcium orthophosphates, all of which are white or colorless in pure
form: Ca(H2PO4)2 is used as a fertilizer, as a plastics stabilizer, and in
baking powder, and is also know as acid calcium phosphate, calcium
dihydrogen phosphate, monobasic calcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate;
CaHPO4 is uded in pharmaceuticals, animal feeds, and toothpastes, and is
also known as calcium hydrogen phosphate, dibasic calcium phosphate,
dicalcium orthophosphate, dicalcium phosphate; Ca3(PO4)2 is used as a
fertilizer, and is also known as tribasic calcium phosphate, tricalcium
phosphate.

_McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Chemical Terms_.

See also:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/burning-pits
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/burning-pit.jpg
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/images/treblinka-grave-02.jpg


As to the issue of lies and liars:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:50 PST 1996
Article: 79875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 19:59:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 83
Message-ID: 
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <327a0973.2522479@news.demon.co.uk> <55dqh0$klm@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <327d30de.8680278@news.demon.co.uk> <55ub8h$8s8@access5.digex.net> <847903293.2404.8@vertigo.combase.com> <328a539b.94218644@news.txdirect.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328a539b.94218644@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
(Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:43:04 -0500, Hardwire
>  wrote:
> 
> >Michael P. Stein wrote:
> 
> [text deleted for sanity]
> 
> 
> >Do you have evidence of Matt Giwer's mail-bombings or DON'T you?
> 
> Good grief! The man is talking about himself in the third person.  The
> Pope is the only other person that does this, but he has a good
> reason.

Well, actually, the Moran (tm) has often talked about himself in the third
person. The Pope he ain't though. This Moranic (tm) "personality" disorder
probably stems from the Moran (tm) thinking there are several of him.
Evidently, they're not always in agreement with each other either....

A virtual cacophony of anti-Semitic loons.

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

In addition:

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, and has generally conducted himself with such a
complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be
no point in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/forgeries.1096
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar




Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:51 PST 1996
Article: 79914 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on the demands for $wi$$ billions
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:22:37 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <3291ef1b.5624155@199.0.216.204> <328e2687.379806@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328e2687.379806@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>         
>         Holocaust Question:
> 
> Will all this clamoring for Swiss billions:
> 
> A. Cause people to be more responsive to seeking out the plight of the
> Jewish people through the Holocaust story?
> 
> B. Cause people to be more responsive to the revisionist side of
> story?

C. Cause the Moran (tm) to utter yet more vile anti-Semitic slanders and
Holocaust denials? 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:51 PST 1996
Article: 79915 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:25:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <3285fa37.2511006@news.zippo.com> <565fe3$bk6@news.enter.net> <328c424a.4704216@199.0.216.204> <328967DF.5DFE@west.net> <328adbc5.674533@199.0.216.204> <3289e5a3.656176@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328c25ed.226126@199.0.216.204>
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In article <328c25ed.226126@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[Moranic (tm) drivel) snipped]

> This lack of going out and digging up the evidence is one of the
> aspects of the Holocaust story that makes me believe the perpetuators
> of the lie know it to be just that. A lie.

Speaking of liars and their lies:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:52 PST 1996
Article: 80057 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: 961109: David Irving banned from Australia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:20:22 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <562mna$n1n@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <328bc4af.628863322@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:80057 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3102

In article <328bc4af.628863322@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Mr. Smith's drivel snipped]

> "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
> 
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

 For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:53 PST 1996
Article: 80119 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Repost] Tom Moran: A Chronicle of Lies (Month 10)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 17:47:46 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <56hifo$50n@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56hifo$50n@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, mkelley@U.Arizona.EDU wrote:

[snip]

> This is, I believe, only a partial list.  I invite other alt.revisionism
> participants to post (and/or e-mail to me) other examples of Mr. Moran's many
> "errs".

[snip]

A Sisyphean task indeed! Let me help out by adding a few more straws to
the camel's creaking back:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/behold-the-liar
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:54 PST 1996
Article: 80253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: really amazing
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:07:43 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References: <328d9761.34645756@news.gte.net> <328e2f54.44712451@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328e2f54.44712451@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 10:31:02 GMT, pj@o.rourke (Leprechaun) wrote:
> 
> >       As Marduk, the self identified jew, said on my phone today, I
> >should be afraid for my son.  
> >
> >       What a Jew!  What a netcom canada employee.  
> >
> >       Are all jews really like this jew?  
> >
> >=====
> >http://home1.gte.net/mgiwer/index.html
> >http://www.codoh.com/
> 
> Marduk is the sort of Jew which makes people wish the Holofraud was
> true.
> 
> Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:55 PST 1996
Article: 80254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Giwer-Swine (tm)
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:06:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <328cc5af.694665374@news.micron.net>   <328e2e7b.44495098@news.micron.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328e2e7b.44495098@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 08:30:18 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> [more impotent mind-numbing mantra]
> 
> Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:56 PST 1996
Article: 80256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 22:51:36 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com> <3287a6c3.9663559@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56f6p7$f22@Vir.com> <328c8977.2982357@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328d5923.18712727@news.gte.net> <328f0141.2463203@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328eee19.93556313@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328eee19.93556313@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Got to get rid of that free speech don't we.  Make it just like in
> Germany and France where if you differ with another's (fraudulent)
> view of history, you "get in trouble."  
>
>Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:57 PST 1996
Article: 80259 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:44:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 50
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>  <328e2575.42185408@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328e2575.42185408@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Nizkook acolyte and resident sewage engineer Mark Van Alstine wrote in
> another impotent flurry:
> 
> >bone ash - A white ash consisting primarily of tribasic calcium phosphate
> >obtained by burning bones in air; used in cleaning jewelry and in some
> >pottery. 
> >
> >calcium phosphate - 1. Any phosphate of calcium. 2. Any of the following
> >three calcium orthophosphates, all of which are white or colorless in pure
> >form: Ca(H2PO4)2 is used as a fertilizer, as a plastics stabilizer, and in
> >baking powder, and is also know as acid calcium phosphate, calcium
> >dihydrogen phosphate, monobasic calcium phosphate, monocalcium phosphate;
> >CaHPO4 is uded in pharmaceuticals, animal feeds, and toothpastes, and is
> >also known as calcium hydrogen phosphate, dibasic calcium phosphate,
> >dicalcium orthophosphate, dicalcium phosphate; Ca3(PO4)2 is used as a
> >fertilizer, and is also known as tribasic calcium phosphate, tricalcium
> >phosphate.
> >
> >_McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Chemical Terms_.
> 
> GOSH.  Look at all those big scientific words Van Smallstine just
> quoted.  

Indeed. Too bad Mr. Smith hasn't a clue as to what they mean. Alas, such
are the perils of ending one's education at the third grade!

> The Holofraud really must be true after all!  (snicker) 

Indeed it is. As Mr. Smith full-well knows.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:57 PST 1996
Article: 80260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:40:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 151
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>  <3293c26e.945369@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293c26e.945369@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[snip]

> This is what Nizkor is all about. To perpetuate tales of ghoul
> that other Holocaust authorities don't care to include in their sales
> presentations - anymore. Soap and mattresses from hair. One of the
> most known 'facts' of the immediate post war rumor mill. The utmost
> played on rumor next to the "gas chamber" aspect. Whatever Nizkor is
> presenting you won't be seeing others give. This is the job of the
> well financed "$1,500,000" Nizkor, there to carry on the extinct,
> deleted rumors, so the others can have the cake and deny it too.  

Argumentum ad hominem. 

I guess having Nizkor around to expose the Moran's (tm) lies really bugs
him.... 


> >As to the issue of the bones of the murdered victims and their being used
> >for fertilizer:
> >
> >The bones of the victims were pulverized so they would not be recognized
> >as bones. The reason for this, according to Ho"ss, was that shortly after
> >Himmler's summer of 1942 visit to Auschwitz Himmler gave the order for the
> >mass graves (which contained about 100,000 corpses) be opened and the
> >corpses cremated. The order further stated that all the ashes be disposed
> >of so that later it could not be determined how many victims were killed. 
> >(_Death Dealer_, p.33.) Obviously, Himmlers orders were left standing 
> >for the remainder of Auschwitz's operation.
> 
>         Mr. Ho'ss said all this? 

Did the Moran (tm) read what Ho"ss wrote? (A rhetorical question!) 

> Mr.Ho'ss the one who said over 3,000,000
> people were killed at Auschwitz? 

And who ammended this to 1.13 million. A remarkebly accurate estimate, btw.

> Was he the same one who ordered the ashes to be scattered around on the camp 
> paths to keep people from slipping? Is he the one who ordered the ashes to be 
> put into the walls for insulation? Is he the one who ordered the ashes to be 
> scattered out in the fields for fertilizer? Is he the one who ordered the 
> ashes taken down to the rivers and thrown in? 

Himmler's orders "further stated that all the ashes were to be disposed of
in sucha way that later on there would be no way to determine the number
of those cremated." (cf. Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_. p.33.) 

> I realize that even some dedicated to the Holocaust story have a opinion 
> Mr.Ho'ss was crazy

Really? And who might these people be? 

> and that his diary might say one thing and his testimony might say
> another...

Or they might say the same thing. Wow. What a "coincidense!"  

> and that some of his testimony is now commonly recognized
> among all as somewhat fabricated...

Indeed. When Ho"ss's memoirs concern his wife's knowledge of the gassings,
he lied, saying she knew nothing about it. (Ho"ss confided to G. Martin
Gilbrt at Nuremberg that he _did_ discuss the mass murder of the Jews with
his wife on one occassion.) When Ho"ss wrote that he could not halt the
barbarism on the part of the guards at Auschwitz, he lied, as he actively
instigated it to set the prisoners against each other. (A fact born out in
that after Ho"ss was transferred the new commandant, Leibehenschel,
quickly stopped the random beatings of the prisoners.)

But as to the extermination pogrom itself? No, Ho"ss didn't lie. Just the
opposite, in fact. He told the damning truth. In great detail. 

> ...but he couldn't have been that much of a wild man with the ashes.  

And why is this? Does Moran suggest that a person that would carry out a
pogrom of the cold-blooded murder of over a million people could not order
that their ashes be dumped in rivers, scattered across fields, etc.? 
 
> Perhaps all the tales of ashes are really only the figment of
> multiple testimonies. 

And perhaps such multiple testimonies are simply stating what took place.
A much more likely conclusion than Moranic(tm) mass hallucination or
collusion. 

> At Majdanek the ashes (and many bones) were hidden under manure
> piles and dug into gardens.

So? Just points out how disgusting the Nazis were. 

> At other camps they were left in situ where the bodies were
> burned.

So? Just points out how disgusting the Nazis were. 

> Why thanks, Mr.VanAlstine. You have reminded me of another aspect
> of the Holocaust pot pourri story line.

Translated: Be prepared for more Moranic (tm) lies.
 
[snip]

> Now this last out of breath flurry of such things as "calcium
> orthophosphates", "Ca3(PO4)2" and "tribasic calcium phosphate" really
> is impressive.

I thought so too. Especially as it shows that calcinated bone makes a
great fertilizer. 

> One should wonder, what with all these wonderful resources that
> can be gotten from the crushed bone and ash, why the Germans would
> have taken to scattering them around on the paths in the camp,
> stuffing it into walls or taking it down to ponds or rivers to be
> disposed of. I wonder if Mr. VanAlstine could come up with a rough
> estimate of how much of the ash and bone was committed to the fields.

Why? Is the Moran (tm) having math troubles again? (Another rhetorical
question!) 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:46:59 PST 1996
Article: 80261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:45:11 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>  <328e2575.42185408@news.micron.net> <56nub2$r1e@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56nub2$r1e@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>, brainh@itsa.ucsf.edu (Brian
Harmon) wrote:

> In article <328e2575.42185408@news.micron.net>,
> Kurt Stele  wrote:
> >Nizkook acolyte and resident sewage engineer Mark Van Alstine wrote...
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Someone has to deal with your shit, Kurt.
> 
> - Brian

ROTFL!

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:47:00 PST 1996
Article: 80263 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Doin' the National Appliance Polka: Brian Smith
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 00:40:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <846101891$22870@atype.com> <846117382$24861@atype.com> <846180184$199@atype.com> <846203588$2628@atype.com> <846205434$2982@atype.com> <846211684$3615@atype.com> <846216185$3966@atype.com> <54plll$fa9@is05.micron.net> <32718d4a.5233509@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56haqj$hqb@news3.gte.net> <328e4e2b.55610083@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <328cc4d8.694450081@news.micron.net> <328d333b.17482383@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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In article <328d333b.17482383@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

> And what's the matter with you anyway? Couldn't you think of a really
> mature response--like making fun of my name a la "Van Smellstine"? Is
> "Morris" too much of a challenge for the punning abilities of the
> chief Usenet spokesman for the National Alliance?

LOL! Obviously so. I gues Mr. Smith is "pun" challenged as well as being
intelectually and morally challanged in the extreme. Tsk tsk. Mr. Smith is
obviously a _severely_ challanged person. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised
at all if Mr. Smith found that tying his shoes was a bit too challenging
for him.... 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:47:01 PST 1996
Article: 80274 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:33:40 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204> <56qeuf$2q4@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56qeuf$2q4@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> >
> >  
> >  Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoss is often cited as one of the most
> >  important witnesses to the "Holocaust," if not the most important. His
> >  affidavit and testimony were quoted extensively both by the
> >  prosecution and in the judgment of the International Military
> >  Tribunal at Nuremberg. 
> 
>         Oh, Tommy.  You better check your sources again.  Hoess was a 
> witness for the *defense* at Nurmeberg.

Sources? Since _when_ did the Moran (tm) use sources? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:47:02 PST 1996
Article: 80327 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer Violates His User Agreement with GTE
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 11:05:29 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <328eb232.105725571@news.gte.net> <56nbb7$um@news.enter.net> <32903d40.78016129@news.gte.net> <56rh07$feo@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56rh07$feo@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il
(Richard Schultz) wrote:

> Capt. Peter Peachfuzz (myshkin@shotehgamur.com) wrote:
> 
> :       It was true that you bore false witness and convinced them my your
> : false witness you lying little jewish pig shit.  

> I assume that eventually one our experts will provide an accurate 
> translation from the Giwerese, but in the interim, I thought I'd just point
> out that Giwer himself doesn't seem to believe that there is anything 
> wrong with "bearing false witness" in principle.  After all, look how
> many times he has accused me of "lying about chemistry," but when 
> requested to provide a single example of a lie I told about chemistry (or
> anything else, for that matter), he heads for the hills.

This is obviously a Giwerese allegory about how the Giwer-swine was
convinced that he gave birth to a lie by wallowing in the excrement of a
pig that he believed was owned by a Jew. 

The moral of this story is: Don't try and type while blind drunk and
having to take a major dump. One inevitably wakes up with one's head in
the toilet after forgetting to flush....


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 19 06:47:03 PST 1996
Article: 80360 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!pacifier!trellis.wwnet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Response to the SRRS
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:28:20 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <32909ae3.63002891@news.txdirect.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32909ae3.63002891@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
(Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Nov 1996 14:09:57 -0800, Rich Graves
>  wrote:
> 
> > [Posted in reply to email because this news server is still flaky; should
> >  be threaded with Ehrlich's article <55k5ug$s00@newsbf02.news.aol.com>]
> >
> >On Tue, 5 Nov 1996, Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> >
> >> ehrlich606@aol.com (Ehrlich606) wrote:
> 
> [text deleted]
> 
> >> There you go again, in typical denier fashion, insulting your opponents.
> >> 
> >> Mr. Van Alstine informs me that he has used that word precisely once,
> >> against Alexander Baron.  Deja News backs him up on this.  You
> >> remember Mr. Baron, I'm sure, as the bigoted fellow who called Deborah
> >> Lipstadt a "hopped-up cunt."
> 
> Mr. Baron is, unfortunately, not here to verify the above. 

Pity. 

> He is in the care of London's finest.  Mr. Baron has been a very bad boy.

Now why am I not suprised? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:04 PST 1996
Article: 80432 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-m01.ny.us.ibm.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 23:02:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <328bdd82.1119206@199.0.216.204>  <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>  <328d5d05.733413149@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <328d5d05.733413149@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 04:15:57 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <328d83ad.267594@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:
> 
> >> You can wail and gnash your teeth all you want out here on this
> >> format, but when it all is presented to the open mind, it is one of
> >> big convincing points for revisionism.
> >
> >More truthfully, when the evidence is presented to those with open minds,
> >the last shreds of denier pseudo-history is blown away by the winds of
> >History to expose the denier's quasi-religious dogma as nothing more than
> >simple hate-mongering, anti-Semitism, and Nazi idolatry. 
> 
> Right.  The revisionist side is just "so unconvincing" that
> Holocausters have to put revisionists in prison for expressing their
> views.  
> 
> Sure.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:05 PST 1996
Article: 80520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Treblinka
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:13:33 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <56rdj4$jo8@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56rdj4$jo8@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

>  I've see many comments from people here who state that I'm taking
> up details without 'seing the evidence', while the evidence is that
> the camera wasn't hidden, but I'll ask you this question:
> 
> For a 5,000 meter square area, how much deep would you have to dig if
you want 
> to burry 800,000 persons? I've already done my calculus, the official
> version talk about a layer of sand and chlorine between each
> 'batch', but since you are so smarth: how much deep?
> 
> 5000 meter suqare is the size given by the witness, an average.

"East of the gas chambers, and close to them, were huge ditches for
burying the dead. The ditches were 50 meters long, 25 meters wide, and 10
meters deep. They were dug by an excavator brought from the quarry at
Treblinka penal camp, and by the prisoners..."  (Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor,
Treblinka: the Operation Reinhard death camps_, p.42.) 

"...After the victims' bodies were thrown into a pit by the body-transport
workers, the corpses were arranged in rows by the burial detail. To save
space, the bidies were arranged head-to-foot; each head lay between the
feet of two other corspes, and each pair of feet between two heads. Sand
or chlorine was scattered between the layers of bodies. Aproximately half
the team worked inside the ditches arranging the corpses at the same time
that the other half was covering a layer of bodies with sand. When the
ditch filled up, it was topped off with earth and a new ditch opened."
(Ibid. p.112.) 

Did Mr. Beaulieu take into consideration when he made his "calculations"
that the corpses were arranged to save space? Or did Mr. Beaulieu
"out-smarth" [sic] himself again? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 06:03:05 PST 1996
Article: 80538 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:21:21 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 217
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204> <32a0b539.16717082@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32a0b539.16717082@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

>         Mr.Ho'ss' testimony implies the 3,000,000 were killed at
>         Auschwitz up to Dec.1, 1943.

Really? Perhaps, knowing the Moran's (tm) propensity to maliciously lie
and distort facts, we should examine what Ho"ss actually said at
Kaltenbrunner's trial in regard to this? To whit:

"I commanded Auschwitz until 1st December 1943, and estimate that at least
2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and
burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and
disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents
about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners,
the remainder having been selected and used for slave labour in the
concentration camp industries...." (Crankshaw, _Gestapo: intrument of
tyranny_, p.192-193.)

Hmm. Arguably Ho"ss meant that the 3 million figure applied to the _total_
number of victims over the _entire_ history of Auschwitz by: "...This
figure represents about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to
Auschwitz as prisoners...."  Note the "all persons sent to Auschwitz" and
_not_ persons sent to Auscwhitz until December 1, 1943.

In addition, Ho"ss, in his memoirs, further states:

"During my earlier interrogations I gave the number of 2.5 million Jews
who arrived at Auschwitz to be exterminated. This figure was given to me
by Eichmann, who had given this figure to my superior, SS General
Glu"ck's, when Eichmann was ordered to make a report to Himmler shortly
before Berlin was surrounded...." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.38.) 

Ho"ss clearly states that the 2.5 million number was given to him by
Eichmann "shortly before Berlin was surrounded." That would be in 1945,
shortly before the war ended. And what does Eichmann relate about such a
meeting in Berlin? In his interrogation he said: "...At the end of the
war, I spoke to my officers of five million [Jews killed]. I saw that
figure as a kind of cloud in my mind's eye. In that brief- hmm, how shall
I put it? -apocolyptic speech, or whatever you may choose to call it, I
wasn't looking for exact figures." (Lang, _Eichmann Interrogated_, 
pp.109-110.) 

Not "looking for exact figures." How interesting! Could it be that when
Ho"ss was told that 2.5 million were exterminated at Auschwitz, that said
number _also_ wasn't an exact figure? That such a number was _also_ "a
kind of cloud in" Eicmann's "mind's eye?"   

>         The total number that was accepted at Nuremberg was 4,000,000.
> 
>         This would put 1,000,000 after his leaving.
> 
>         From what is the current 1,000,000 derived?

>From  specious and maligmant Moranic (tm) "logic," of course! 

> Now if it refers to all that is said to have been all those
> after Mr.Ho'ss leaving as commandant, then this would erase his whole
> figure of 3,000,000 as a lie.

On the other hand, given that the 2.5 million figure arguably spans the
_entire_ period of operations at Auschwitz, the Moran's (tm) entire
"argument" falls apart as the deaths from Aktion Ho"ss would have been
included in the 2.5 million number. 

That the Moran (tm) is simply playing a puerile deniers game with this
2.5-3 million figure is all to obvious when it can simply be pointed out
that Ho"ss, in his memoirs, amended the 2.5 million figure down to 1.13
million. 

> Maybe it was 500,000 from before he left and 500,000 after he
> left, which would show his figure for 3,000,000 being off by
> 2,500,000, or 85%.

No. Ho"ss _included_ the Hungarian Jews killed in his 1.13 million
Auschwitz death toll estimate. (cf. Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.39.) 

Oops. There goes the Moran's (tm) "argument." Again. 

> We could think that if he had said one number, and it was now
> accepted to be off by say 2%, or even 15%, then this might be an
> acceptable possible mistake. But when it's off by 85%, then we can see
> that he was not telling the truth, that he was committing false
> testimony.

No. What one can see here is the the Moran (tm) is once again plying his
trade: whoring for the professional Holocuast deniers by spreading
malicious lies and base Nazi apologia. 

> Now, why would he get up and lie? 

And the evidence that Ho"ss lied about the 2.5 million that Eichmann (or
his deputies) gave him is? Why none, of course! Obviously the Moran (tm)
expects the reader to take the his word on this in"good faith!" Right.

> Was it his conscious, or was it torture?

More like the Moran's (tm) diseased imagination. 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> In other words, is Mr.Ho'ss' testimony of Zyklon B true?

Yes. The convergence of evidence is overwhelming. 

> Considering it can be shown that Mr.Ho'ss' testimony was
> considerably false in respect to the numbers....

No, Ho"ss repeated the numbers given to him by Eichmann. Later, in his
memoirs, and after reflection, he concluded that 2.5 million was
unrealistic given the killing capacity of Auschwitz. Therefore he amended
his estimated, based on his reccollections of the major "special actions"
to 1.13 million deaths. 

An estimate, it should be noted, that is very close to the current
estimate for the death toll at Auschwitz given by Dr. Piper of the
Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum. An estimate, btw, that relies on
demographic/transport information rather than eyewitness testimonies, such
as Ho"ss's. 

>...and that it implies he might have been tortured into testifying to the 
> numbers, we would have to take a similar look at the Zyklon B testimony.

No. Ho"ss wrote in his memoirs that: "...During the first interrogation
they beat me to obtain evidence. I do not know what was in the transcript,
or what I said, even though I signed it, because they gave me liquor and
beat me with a whip...." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.179.) Yet, in spite of
the fact that Ho"ss could _not_ recall what he said, it "does not differ
in any great degree from the section entitled, 'The Final Solution to the
Jewish Question in KL Auschwitz.' The later section, however, does contain
more detail than the origional forced statement to the British
interrogators." (Ibid. p.20.) 

> Mr.Ho'ss' testimony is the root of the Zyklon B tales. 

And the Moran's (tm) evidence for this is? Why none, of course! Obviously
the Moran (tm) expects the reader to take the his word on this in "good
faith!" Right.

The fact is that there are _many_ other sources for the homicidal use of
Zyklon B at Auschwitz. Other Nazis who served at Auschwitz have written
and testified to this. Prisoners have written and testified to this. Not
to mention that physical and documentary evidence corroborates this.  

> What about the other German Zyklon B testimonies that followed
> Mr.Ho'ss'? Did they all just come forth voluntarily out of free
> choice, or were they prisoners, subjected to 'interrogation'? 

In the particular case of Johann Kremer, his origional "testimony" about
the homicidal use came from his diary, written while he was a Nazi doctor
at Auschwitz during the war. After the war, while standing trial in
Poland, Kremer expanded on entires in his diary that described homicidal
gassings, making it clear in no uncertain terms that the Jews were gassed
to death. 

One can hardly conclude that a diary, freely written _before_ the war
ended, should be held suspect to being coerced! 

> Considering this, it is obvious the Zyklon B part of the
> Holocaust story is on shaky ground.

No. Just the opposite. Given the plethora of converging evidence, one can
only (rationally) conclude that Zyklon B was used for homicidal purposes
at Auschwitz. That the Moran concludes otherwise is only indicative of his
self-consuming anti-Semitism and the need to rationalize his _irrational_
hatred of Jews with Nazi apologia and Holocaust denial. 

[More Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> How can anyone admit to accepting Ho'ss' testimony on the
> 3,000,000 being false and at the same time adamantly hold to his
> testimony on Zyklon B as true? Obviously a subjectively selective
> mental process would have to be the determining factor.   

The quesrtion is better put as: 

How can anyone _ignore_ the overwhelming evidence, including Ho"ss's
testimony and memoirs, as to the premeditated Nazi pogrom of genocide
against the Jews? 

Obviously, an irrationally selective and subjective mental process would
have to be a determining factor. Being consumed by hatred for Jews-
anti-Semitism -would certainly be a mitigating factor. And a rabid
anti-Semite the Moran (tm) certainly is....

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 07:08:11 PST 1996
Article: 3102 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: 961109: David Irving banned from Australia
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 10:20:22 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
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In article <328bc4af.628863322@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Mr. Smith's drivel snipped]

> "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
> 
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his
or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

 For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 08:46:59 PST 1996
Article: 23234 of soc.history.war.world-war-ii
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.history.war.world-war-ii
Subject: Re: Nazi Doctors
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 21:46:41 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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Approved: rick@bcm.tmc.edu
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In article <56dffr$o7n@gazette.bcm.tmc.edu>, ad201@FreeNet.Carleton.CA
(Donald Phillipson) wrote:

> Gary L. Green (jiajen@pc.jaring.my) writes:
> > At several seminars I've gone to, I've heard the "research" done by
> > Mengele quoted.  Is there a place where his atrocities have been
> > compiled and published?  I've looked and so far to no avail.  Any one
> 
> Apparently the first was by Miklos Nyiszli, a prisoner and Mengele's
> research assistant, entitled Auschwitz: a Doctor's Eyewitness Account,
> pub. in English in 1960.  There are several more.


_The Nazi Doctors: medical killing and the psychology of genocide_ 
Lifton, Robert Jay 
Basic Books, 1986 
ISBN 0-465-04905-2 (paper)

Mark

posted/e-mailed to Mr. Green.


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Nov 20 09:31:31 PST 1996
Article: 91732 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi141.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:56:02 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <55c9l1$1pcc@news.gate.net> <55hc9i$2ucq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <847303648.16749.0@vertigo.combase.com> <32811cf3.4882500@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <847333778.8623.1@vertigo.combase.com>  <847900803.2404.0@vertigo.combase.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <55c9l1$1pcc@news.gate.net> <55hc9i$2ucq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <847303648.16749.0@vertigo.combase.com> <32811cf3.4882500@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <847333778.8623.1@vertigo.combase.com>  <847900803.2404.0@vertigo.combase.com> <328b4cc1.2248989@news.spry.com> <56hsb5$rhu$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <56hsb5$rhu$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <328b4cc1.2248989@news.spry.com> - klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis)Thu,
> 14 Nov 1996 16:47:32 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>On Wed, 13 Nov 1996 06:01:34 -0500, Hardwire
> :> wrote:
> :>
> :>
> :>>Sara (aka Prrrefect)... Blow me.
> :>
> :>Are you _sure_ you are not the Giwer pig or his son? You are as
> :>crude and repugnant as he. Perhaps it is just being in the Giwer
> :>pigs vicinity that has turned you into an ugly fool.
> 
> He's Giwer, no doubt about it.  Doing his damndest to post in a semi-coherent
> fashion, but Sara got his goat, and he stupidly reverted to "normal" gross,
> vulgar old Matt.  He lost again.

Yup. Sara's got that li'l pig a squealin' for his momma!


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:22 PST 1996
Article: 80630 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:03:37 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 248
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204> <32a0b539.16717082@199.0.216.204> <32a427df.46066915@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32a427df.46066915@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> This is a slight rewrite of the post in the thread. The first
> version is the result of Holocaust shock, which happens when you try
> to convey something out of the roller coaster Holocaust numbers and
> testimony.

Translated: the Moran's (tm) pitiful lies went over like a lead balloon
the first time, so he' trying a again....

>         Mr.Ho'ss' numbers of 3,000,000 are for up to Dec.1, 1943, when he
> left Auschwitz as it's commandant. Another 400,000 (Hungarian Jews)
> are said to have been liquidated after that and possibly more. The
> figure for Auschwitz-Birkenau ended up being 4,000,000. The figure now
> is said to be around 1,000,000.

Really? Perhaps, knowing the Moran's (tm) propensity to maliciously lie
and distort facts, we should examine what Ho"ss actually said at
Kaltenbrunner's trial in regard to this? To whit:

"I commanded Auschwitz until 1st December 1943, and estimate that at least
2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and
burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and
disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents
about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners,
the remainder having been selected and used for slave labour in the
concentration camp industries...." (Crankshaw, _Gestapo: intrument of
tyranny_, p.192-193.)

Hmm. Arguably Ho"ss meant that the 3 million figure applied to the _total_
number of victims over the _entire_ history of Auschwitz by: "...This
figure represents about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to
Auschwitz as prisoners...."  Note the "all persons sent to Auschwitz" and
_not_ persons sent to Auscwhitz until December 1, 1943.

In addition, Ho"ss, in his memoirs, further states:

"During my earlier interrogations I gave the number of 2.5 million Jews
who arrived at Auschwitz to be exterminated. This figure was given to me
by Eichmann, who had given this figure to my superior, SS General
Glu"ck's, when Eichmann was ordered to make a report to Himmler shortly
before Berlin was surrounded...." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.38.) 

Ho"ss clearly states that the 2.5 million number was given to him by
Eichmann "shortly before Berlin was surrounded." That would be in 1945,
shortly before the war ended. And what does Eichmann relate about such a
meeting in Berlin? In his interrogation he said: "...At the end of the
war, I spoke to my officers of five million [Jews killed]. I saw that
figure as a kind of cloud in my mind's eye. In that brief- hmm, how shall
I put it? -apocolyptic speech, or whatever you may choose to call it, I
wasn't looking for exact figures." (Lang, _Eichmann Interrogated_, 
pp.109-110.) 

Not "looking for exact figures." How interesting! Could it be that when
Ho"ss was told that 2.5 million were exterminated at Auschwitz, that said
number _also_ wasn't an exact figure? That such a number was _also_ "a
kind of cloud in" Eicmann's "mind's eye?"   

>  Where does this new figure fit in with Ho'ss testimony of
> 3,000,000?

It doesn't. The Moran's "question" is a strawman. Ho"ss made the death
toll statement of about 3 million at Kaltebrunner's trial. Later he
ammended this, based on his recollections of the major "special actions"
to 1.13 million.

> Mr.Ho'ss' testimony implies the 3,000,000 were killed at
> Auschwitz up to Dec.1, 1943.

No, he does not. Ho"ss simply states that he "commanded Auschwitz until
1st December 1943" and by implication of his tenure that he estimated that
"at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by
gassing and burning" etc etc. However, we also know from Ho"ss's memoirs
was that this estimate was made by Eichmann's department towards the end
of the war and given to Ho"ss in Berlin in 1945. Furthermore, Eichmann, in
his interrogation, confirms that he gave an "apocolyptic speech" in Berlin
near the end of the war where he "wasn't looking for exact figures" when
talking about the number of Jews murdered in the Final Solution. 

> The total number that was accepted at Nuremberg was 4,000,000.


> 
> This would put 1,000,000 more after his leaving as commandant.
> 
> So where does this all fit in with the current figure of 1,000,000?

>From  specious and maligmant Moranic (tm) "logic," of course! 

> Now if it refers to the million that is in addition to or after
> Ho'ss' tour of duty, then this would make the 3,000,000 now deleted
> all those that Ho'ss testified to, thus making him 100% wrong or  -
> lying.

On the other hand, given that the 2.5 million figure arguably spans the
_entire_ period of operations at Auschwitz, the Moran's (tm) entire
"argument" falls apart as the deaths from Aktion Ho"ss would have been
included in the 2.5 million number. 

That the Moran (tm) is simply playing a puerile deniers game with this
2.5-3 million figure is all to obvious when it can simply be pointed out
that Ho"ss, in his memoirs, amended the 2.5 million figure down to 1.13
million. 

>         Maybe he miscalculated and it was really 3,500,000 before he
> left, which would make it 500,000 after he left to add up to the
> 4,000,000 which would show his figure for 3,000,000 being off by
> 2,500,000, or 85%.

No. Ho"ss _included_ the Hungarian Jews killed in his 1.13 million
Auschwitz death toll estimate. (cf. Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.39.) 

Oops. There goes the Moran's (tm) "argument." Again. 

> Accomodating the Holocaust we can focus on the 85% figure since
> it is a little less absurd than the possible 100% figure. If Ho'ss had
> been off by only, say 2%, or even 15%, then this might be an
> acceptable possible mistake.... 

A pathetic Moranic (tm) red herring. Considering that Ho"ss's estimate he
gave in his memoirs was 1.13 million killed, and that the Auschwitz death
toll cited by Dr. Piper, for example, is bwtween 1.1 million and 1.5
million killed, it seems that Ho"ss's estimate of 1.13 million killed was
definetely on the money. 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> In other words, is Mr.Ho'ss' testimony of Zyklon B true?

Yes. The convergence of evidence is overwhelming. 

> Considering it can be shown that Mr.Ho'ss' testimony was
> considerably false in respect to the numbers...

No, the Moran (tm) has _not_ shown such a thing. Ho"ss repeated the
numbers given to him by Eichmann. Later, in his memoirs, and after
reflection, he concluded that 2.5 million was unrealistic given the
killing capacity of Auschwitz. Therefore he amended his estimated, based
on his reccollections of the major "special actions" to 1.13 million
deaths. 

An estimate, it should be noted, that is very close to the current
estimate for the death toll at Auschwitz given by Dr. Piper of the
Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum. An estimate, btw, that relies on
demographic/transport information rather than eyewitness testimonies, such
as Ho"ss's. 

What the Moran (tm) _has_ shown is that he/they is/are once again plying
his/their trade: whoring for the professional Holocuast deniers by
spreading malicious lies and base Nazi apologia. 

> and that it implies he might have been tortured into testifying to the 
> numbers, we would have to take a similar look at the Zyklon B testimony.

No. Ho"ss wrote in his memoirs that: "...During the first interrogation
they beat me to obtain evidence. I do not know what was in the transcript,
or what I said, even though I signed it, because they gave me liquor and
beat me with a whip...." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.179.) Yet, in spite of
the fact that Ho"ss could _not_ recall what he said, it "does not differ
in any great degree from the section entitled, 'The Final Solution to the
Jewish Question in KL Auschwitz.' The later section, however, does contain
more detail than the origional forced statement to the British
interrogators." (Ibid. p.20.) 

> Mr.Ho'ss' testimony is the root of the Zyklon B tales. 

And the Moran's (tm) evidence for this is? Why none, of course! Obviously
the Moran (tm) expects the reader to take the his word on this in "good
faith!" 

Right.

The fact is that there are _many_ other sources for the homicidal use of
Zyklon B at Auschwitz. Other Nazis who served at Auschwitz have written
and testified to this. Prisoners have written and testified to this. Not
to mention that physical and documentary evidence corroborates this.  

> What about the other German Zyklon B testimonies that followed
> Mr.Ho'ss'? Did they all just come forth voluntarily out of free
> choice, or were they prisoners, subjected to 'interrogation', with
> 'imput' on Zyklon B? 

In the particular case of Johann Kremer, his origional "testimony" about
the homicidal use came from his diary, written while he was a Nazi doctor
at Auschwitz during the war. After the war, while standing trial in
Poland, Kremer expanded on entires in his diary that described homicidal
gassings, making it clear in no uncertain terms that the Jews were gassed
to death. 

One can hardly conclude that a diary, freely written _before_ the war
ended, should be held suspect to being coerced by the Allies! 

> Considering this, it is obvious the Zyklon B part of the
> Holocaust story is on shaky ground.

No. Just the opposite. Given the plethora of converging evidence, one can
only (rationally) conclude that Zyklon B was used for homicidal purposes
at Auschwitz. That the Moran (tm) "concludes" otherwise is only indicative
of his self-consuming anti-Semitism and the need to rationalize his
_irrational_ hatred of Jews with Nazi apologia and Holocaust denial. 

> How can anyone admit to accepting Ho'ss' testimony on the
> 3,000,000 being false and at the same time adamantly hold to his
> testimony on Zyklon B as true? Obviously a subjectively selective
> mental process would have to be the determining factor.   

The question is better put as: 

How can anyone _ignore_ the overwhelming evidence, including Ho"ss's
testimony and memoirs, as to the premeditated Nazi pogrom of genocide
against the Jews? 

Obviously, an irrationally selective and subjective mental process would
have to be a determining factor. Being consumed by hatred for Jews-
anti-Semitism -would certainly be a mitigating factor. And a rabid
anti-Semite the Moran (tm) certainly is....

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:23 PST 1996
Article: 80631 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:12:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204> <32a0b539.16717082@199.0.216.204>  <3295182d.1121348@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3295182d.1121348@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> As the commondant of Auschwitz, and the one who followed up with
> the Zyklon B, why would he have to get his numbers from Eichmann. You
> would think it would be the other way around.

In the continuing saga of leading the Moran(tm) around by the nose(s)
because he/they is/are too lazy and/or dishonest and/or illiterate to read
Ho"ss's memoirs:

"...Eichamnn and Gu"nther, were the only ones who had the necessary
information to calculate the total number of Jews annihilated. According
to orders given by Himmler, all information concerning the number of
victims involved was to be burned after each actin at Auscwitz. 

"As head of Department D I, I personally destroyed every bit of evidence
which could be found in my office. The othjer department heads did the
same.

"According to Eichamnn, Himmler and the Gestapo Headquarters had also
destroyed all their files. 

"Only his personal notes contained this information. It is possible that
because of negligence of some departments a few isolated documents,
teleprinter messages, or wireless messages remain undestroyed, but they
could not give enough information to make a calculation.... (Ho"ss, _Death
Dealer_, p.39.) 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:24 PST 1996
Article: 80641 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The tins were filled to the brim with blue granules'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:14:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 61
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tkn7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tkn7$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  
> >  Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
> >  Krema I in Auschwitz
> >  [Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> >   ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
> >  Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
> >  hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
> >  inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
> >  to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
> >  the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
> >  opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
> >  were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
> >  of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
> >  started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
> >  death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.
> >  
> >>>>
> Pery Broad is not the best of witnesses.  As is customary in
> cases of this type, he initially denied that people were ever
> gassed at Auschwitz, then changed and said that people
> were gassed but he didn't have anything to do with it.  He is
> not credible.

Such an interesting "story" Frau"lien Schwarzesel spins! Perhaps Frau"lien
Schwarzesel can explain the the disprecencies of her "story" with the
following? 

"He [Broad] was arrested by the British after the war and to them he
handed the documentary relation, written by himself, describing the crimes
of the SS at Auschwitz. Discharged from captivity he chose a merchant's
career in the German Federal Republic. He had been thus employed till
April 30, 1959, that is till he was arrested in connection with the
Auschwitz investigations then conducted in Frankfurt on Main. For his
activity at Auschwitz he was sentanced in 1965 to a term of four years in
prison, which includion of detainment during investigation. After
discharge he continued working as a merchant." (Bezwinska & Czech, _KL
Auschwitz_,  pp.8,10.) 

Hmm. It appears the one with a credibility problem here is Frau"lien
Schwarzesel! Now why am I not suprised? 

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:24 PST 1996
Article: 80642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Sometimes entire transports were gassed'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:27:25 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tibi$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tibi$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann, about his days at Auschwitz
> >  [Quoted from "Auschwitz: A Report on the Proceedings Against Robert 
> >  Karl Ludwig Mulka and Others Before the Court at Frankfurt", By Bernd 
> >  Naumann, 1966, published by Frederick A. Praeger, NY, p. 50-1]
> >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  The Jews were asked to line up. It was my job to preserve calm and
> >  order. The selection was carried out by doctors. The instructions
> >  were issued by the commandants or by Grabner. Sometimes entire
> >  transports were gassed. At times many able-bodied workers were
> >  selected, at other times fewer. The percentage was specified in
> >  advance. It was determined by the need for workers.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> And what happened to Mr. Hofmann?  Did he admit participating
> in the gassing of people?  If so, what is his description of the process?

And what happened to Herr Schwarzesel? Did "he" have a bit a "gender
confusion" or what? And what happened to Frau"lien Schwarzesel, for that
matter? Why did "she," after being soundly trounced, skulk off after her
exposure as a juvienile (both literally and figuratively) lying scumbag
Nazi apologist and Holocaust denier? One who's idea of "proof" is telling
puerile lies and, when they are exposed, stamping "her" little feet and
saying (in essence) "because I say so!"

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:25 PST 1996
Article: 80643 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'After the gassing, the door were opened and the corpses removed'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:41:18 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
References:  <56t9rr$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56t9rr$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Testimony of SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender, In the 
> >  Belzec-Oberhauser trial:
> >  [Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard 
> >  Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 76]. 
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Before the Jews undressed, Oberscharfuehrer Michel made a speech
> >  to them. On these occasions, he used to wear a white coat to
> >  give the impression that he was a physician. Michel announced to
> >  the Jews that they would be sent to work, but before this they
> >  would have to take baths and undergo disinfection so as to
> >  prevent the spread of diseases... After undressing, the Jews
> >  were taken through the so-called Schlauch. They were led to the
> >  gas chambers not by the Germans but by the Ukrainians...After
> >  the Jews entered the gas chambers, the Ukrainians closed the
> >  doors. The motor which supplied the gas was switched on by
> >  a Ukrainian named Emil and by a German driver called Erich
> >  Bauer from Berlin. After the gassing, the door were opened
> >  and the corpses removed....
> >  
> >>>>
> And who made this statement, and when?


Obviously, Frau"lien Schwarzesel, the lying scumbag Nazi apologist, is
either semi-literate or brain-damaged. (Or both.) 

Does not the citation supplied by Dr. Keren say: The "[t]estimony of
SS-Oberscharfuehrer Kurt Bolender" which was given "[i]n the
Belzec-Oberhauser trial?"

As to the _when_, if Frau"lien Schwarzesel had a modicum of research
skills, "she" could have easily found this for herself:

"The Belzac trial in Munich lasted only three days, from January 18 to 21,
1965. The defendant was Josef Oberhauser. Some other SS men who had served
in Belzac had also served in Sobibor and therefore had been defendants at
the Sobibor trial. Oberhauser was sentanced to four and a half years'
imprisonment." (Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor, Treblinka: the Operation Reinhard
death camps_, p.400.) 

Or must one not only lead this particular denier ass to water, but stick
her head in it as well? Apparantly so....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:26 PST 1996
Article: 80644 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 22:43:14 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References:  <56t9u8$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56t9u8$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
> >  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
> >  Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------
> >  As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
> >  arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
> >  told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
> >  disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
> >  to be registered...
> >  
> >  When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
> >  then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
> >  gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
> >  vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
> >  meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
> >  floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
> >  which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
> >  pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
> >  back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
> >  van...
> >  
> >  The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
> >  away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
> >  exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
> >  exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
> >  driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
> >  early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
> >  incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
> >  there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
> >  had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...
> >  
> >  I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
> >  anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
> >  influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
> >  carried out the orders I had been given.
> >  
> >>>>
> If you don't mind my asking, what sort of sentence did this man
> receive after the war?

If Frau"lien Schwarzesel doesn't mind my asking, but did "she" even
_attempt_ to find this out for herself? (A rhetorical question.)

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:27 PST 1996
Article: 80651 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Information for Holocaust Revisionists
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:57:33 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References:  <328c2b79.73530678@news.gte.net>  <328e698e.88450835@news.gte.net> <56uc3e$ccf@access2.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56uc3e$ccf@access2.digex.net>, mstein@access2.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <328e698e.88450835@news.gte.net>, Matt Giwer (mgiwer@gte.net) 
> wrote:
> >On Fri, 15 Nov 1996 19:37:12 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
> >wrote:
> >>Funny thing is that I asked about this in the aviation
> >>groups. One fellow who flew a Mustang in the war said that
> >>he once shouted instructions to a comrade on the ground
> >>(while flying), and that the other fellow had no special
> >>problems hearing him.  
> >
> >       You are lying.  You are telling a very stupid lie.  And you know
> >you telling a very stupid lie.  
> >
> >       And if I give you the benefit of the doubt that you were in fact
> >told that then you were sent out for a left handed monkey wrench and
> >he just made a fool of you.
> 
>     In other words, you have no idea what was said.  You could have gone
> to DejaNews and seen what was said by searching for the keywords "pilot,"
> "ground," and "Mustang."  However, you announced a conclusion without even
> looking at the data.
> 
>     As suspected, you are not a scientist.

Equally suspected, is that the Giwer-swine is perpetually snockered. Only
a drunk on a (never-ending) bender could have written such gibberish and
thought it proved something besides his insobriety. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:27 PST 1996
Article: 80681 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:18:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com> <3287a6c3.9663559@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56f6p7$f22@Vir.com> <328c8977.2982357@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56rcb3$uv1@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56rcb3$uv1@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

[snip]

>  The claim of a hidden camera in a bag is ludicrous.

Not nearly as ludicrous as Mr. Beaulieu's claims that an actor played the
part of Suchomel, etc.

Isn't it about time that this sad farce of Mr. Beaulieu's be put to rest? 

[Mr. Beaulieu's desperate drivel snipped out of kindness]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:28 PST 1996
Article: 80699 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:02:49 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204>  <3296197f.1459027@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3296197f.1459027@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> >The "revisionists" often claim that the memoirs of Rudolph Hoess,
> >commandant of Auschwitz, were "dictated" to him during his trial
> >in Poland. According to the "revisionists", the Poles and Soviets
> >told Hoess what to write. Naturally, they offer no proof of this.
> 
>         When Mr.Keren says '"revisionists"', is he talking about some of
> them, all of them or just one of them?

When the Moran (tm) replies to the Moran (tm), is he talking some of them,
all of them, or just one of them? 

> Mr.Keren quotes the word '"dictated"'. Is he saying all
> revisonists spoke the word, some of them, or one of them?

When the Moran (tm) quotes the Moran (tm), is he quoting some of them, all
of them, or just one of them? 

> Does Mr.Keren cite the names of all the "revisionists" who used
> the "dictated" word, some of them - or none of them?

When the Moran (tm) cites the Moran's (tm) lies, is he citing some of
them, all of them, or just one of them? 

> Personally I find it idiotic that anyone would claim the Poles
> "dictated" any words cited here.

Agreed. But then, who said Holocaust deniers _weren't_ idiotic? Take the
Moran (tm), for example....

> Does Mr.Keren pick out one grain of sand on the beach to
> represent all?

Does the Moran (tm) suggest that if one went to the beach, picked out a
grain of sand, that it _wouldn't_ be representative of the other grains of
sand on the beach? 

Here's a Moranic Experiment (tm) for the Moran (tm): Go to the beach and
pick out all the grains of sand and compare them to each other. Get back
to us with the results before the Sun goes red giant. 

> >The obvious conclusion is that Hoess' memoir was not "dictated"
> >to him. The claim that it was is just one more insane
> >"revisionist" conjecture, unsupported by any evidence and
> >contradicting basic logic.
> 
>  Seems so.

Yup. A rather common trait among Holocuast deniers. Must be genetic or
something. Take the Moran (tm), for instance....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:29 PST 1996
Article: 80702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:30:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tc1r$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

> rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> 
> >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >>  Speech by Frank [Governor of occupied Poland], to German soldiers
> >>  in Poland, urging them to write home
> >>  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
> >>  Off., 1946, Vol. II, p. 633-634]
> >>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>  In all these weeks, they [i.e., your families] will be thinking
> >>  of you, saying to themselves: my God, there he sits in
> >>  Poland where there are so many lice and Jews, perhaps he is
> >>  hungry and cold, perhaps he is afraid to write.
> >>  It would not be a bad idea to send our dear ones back home a
> >>  picture, and tell them: well now, there are not so many
> >>  lice and Jews any more, and conditions here in the General
> >>  Government have changed and improved somewhat already. Of
> >>  course, I could not eliminate all lice and Jews in only one
> >>  year's time. But in the course of time, and above all, if you
> >>  help me, this end will be attained. After all, it is not
> >>  necessary for us to accomplish everything within a year and
> >>  right away, for what would otherwise be left for those who
> >>  follow us to do?
> >>  
> >>  
> >>>>>
> >And what is this supposed to prove?
> 
> Are you really too stupid to figure that out?

Now _there's_ a rhetorical question! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:30 PST 1996
Article: 80705 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? II
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:27:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 78
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tgfg$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tgfg$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
>   In continuation to the previous article: not only were SS-men
>   not punished for participating in mass murder, they were
>   awarded medals for it!
>   
>   Letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of 
>   concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 
>   November 1941
>   [Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
>   Press, 1984, p. 99]
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>   The Commandant's office has submitted to date two lists recommending
>   the conferment of the Kreigverdienstkreuz [war service cross]. In
>   both of these appear SS personnel who participated in executions. We
>   herewith request confirmation as to whether these names should be
> >  listed once again in the roll currently under preparation. Further
> >  requested is information as to whether in the recommendation lists
> >  under "reasons and comments of immediate superior" there should be
> >  specified "execution, i.e., special action" or whether a general,
> >  routine reason should be given.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  -Danny Keren.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Now, my only questions are:
> 
> 1.  What is the original source for this document?

 A "letter from SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rodl to the inspector of
concentration camps, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Liebehenschel, 14 November
1941?"

Duh. 

> 2.  What "executions" had these men allegedly participated in?
> 
> Let's see if Mr. Keren answers these two questions.

If Frau"lien Schwarzesel would have a) paid attention and b) perused her
"library," which I'm told holds some 145,000 books (though considering her
repeated demonstrations of ignorance I wonder if they are not _comic_
books!), she would have quickly surmised that in the case of Freidreich
Jeckeln, recipient of the KVK (_Kreibsverdienstkreuz_) for "services
rendered...which cannot be expressed by confernment of the Iron Cross,"
that he took part in the killing operations in Latvia. Specifically for
organizing the mass shootings in Riga. (cf. Fleming, _Hitler and the Final
Solution, pp.95-100.) 

[Frau"lien Schwarzesel's insipid Nazi apologia snipped] 

> I fail to appreciated Keren's point, if there is one.

Frau"lien Schwarzesel obviously "fails" to appreciate Dr. Keren's point
because her prejudices, bigotry, and Naziphillia prevent the appreciation
any rational person would give. 

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel's increasingly
irrelevent scumbag Nazi apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:30 PST 1996
Article: 80721 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I must state that most of them were gassed'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:49:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <56ukah$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56ukah$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   karlpov@access2.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> > 
> 
> >  
> >  >Again, did he actually witness it?
> >  
> >  Again, what's your point, Jane?
> >  
> >>>>
> My point to you is that you are a mindless slave.

And Frau"lien Schwarzesel, with her juvenile and vaccouous replies has
nicely marginalized herself in this group. Hardly a suprise, as she is
obviously a juvenile and vaccouous Holocaust denier.  

Definetely a candidate for the killfile....

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:31 PST 1996
Article: 80724 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ihr7
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:52:38 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 117
Message-ID: 
References: <56hau8$hqb@news3.gte.net>  <328d7dcf.741808541@news.micron.net> <328DCE9E.3ED9@rio.com> <848252218.26512.6@vertigo.combase.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , alec@gryn.org (Alec Grynspan) wrote:

> <*[*] [*] [Hardwire] [All] [ALT.REVISIONISM] +>
> <+[Re: ihr7] [17 Nov 96 07:38][*][0]*>
> 
>  H> Were the corpses disposed of with a method that did not use
>  H> conventional fuel, or was Wirth, or whoever quoted Wirth at the
>  H> time, lying or misinformed?
> 
> Wood was not considered a "conventional fuel". There were very few
> vehicles that used it and that was what a country at war considered
> "real" fuel.
> 
> But anyone not totally ignorant knew that.

Indeed. However, to expand on this a bit:

"...[I]n June 1942, SS _Gruppenfu"hrer_ Heinrich Mu"ller, the head of the
Gestapo, formally appointed [SS _Standartenfu"hrer Paul] Blobel the task
of covering up the traces of the mass executions carried out by the
_Einsatzgruppen_ in the East. This task was top secret, and Blobe.l was
ordered that no written corrospondance should apeear on the subject. The
operation was given the code name '_Sonderaktion 1005.' Blobel's duty was
to find the proper technical means and system for destroying the victims'
bodies, to coordinate and supervidse the entire operation, and to issue
the verbal orders for its implemantation.

"After his appointment, Blobel, along with a small staff of three or four
men, began experimanting with systems for burning bodies. The place chosen
for these experiments was Chelmno, the first death camp that had been
established and had been operating since the end of 1941. At the same
time, tens of thousands of Jews from the Lodz area had already been killed
there; they were buried in pits in a wooded area. The pits were opened,
and the first experiments were carried out. Incendiary bombs were tried,
but these caused large fired in the surrounding woods. Then they started
to cremate the bodies on wood in open fireplaces. The bones that remained
were destroyed by a special bone-crushing machine. The ashes of the bodies
were small fragments of bones were buried in the pits from which the
bodies had been removed. At the conclusion of these successful
experiments, the SS had found a simple and efficient way to erase their
crimes. 

"Following these experiments, the burning of the corspes of the victims
murdered in Chelmno and in Auschwitz was begun. this as early as the last
months of 1942. The results of Blobels' experiments were sent to Globocnik
so that he could introduce cremation of the corpses in the Operation
Reinhard camps...." (Arad, _Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka: the Operation
Reinhard death camps_, pp.170-171.) 

As to Wirth using wood to cremate the victims' corpses:

"_Unterscharfu"hrer_ Becher Warner, who served as a driver in Sobibor from
August through November 1942, testified at the Sobibor trial" 'The corpses
were taken out from the gas chambers and cremated on a specially prepared
roaster. The ashes and remains of the bodies were biried in a specially
designated place, and later a forest was planted there....As I have
already said, I used to bring foodstuffs to the camp and also wood for
cremating the killed...." 

"An official Polish committee investigating the German crimes in Lublin
area wrote in its concluding report:

    "From December 1942 the arrival of transports with Jews to the 
     Belzec camp came to a standstill. The GErmans then started to 
     erase systematically the trails of their crimes. They started 
     to remove from the graves, with special cranes, the corpses of
     the murdered, pour over them some highly flammable material, 
     and cremate them in large heaps.

    "Later the procedure of burning corpses was improved, and a roaster
     of railway tracks was built. The corpses were laid in layers, 
     alternated with a layer of wood. The ashes from the burned corpses 
     were put through a screening machine so that the valuables that 
     might have remained with the corpses could be seperated and removed.
     Subsequently the ashes were buried....The burning of the corpses was 
     finished in March 1943.... (Ibid. p.171.) 

But, as Mr. Grynspan has already intimated: "Anyone not totally ignorant
knew that."

Speaking of total ignorance:

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine (tm) is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying); refused to
document claims; pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him);
engaged in actual libel; blatant and offensive anti-Semitism; Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, prolifically abused the 'Net, sent e-mailbombs,
and harrassed people via e-mail; forged posts; and has generally conducted
himself with such a complete lack of moral, intellectual, and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond to such a perverted animal.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/giwer.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:32 PST 1996
Article: 80725 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 10:55:24 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <56rebi$btt@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56rebi$btt@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

>  I saw at least one, perhaps two who said here that Suchomel
>  was still alive in 1985... evidence please?

And the evidence that Mr. Beaulieu is alive is? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:32 PST 1996
Article: 80769 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!snunews.snu.ac.kr!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:45:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tem7$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tem7$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
> >  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
> >  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
> >  of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
> >  big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
> >  sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
> >  wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
> >  hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
> >  behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
> >  them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
> >  lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
> >  As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
> >  a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
> >  day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
> >  shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September 
> >  1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
> >  right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
> >  anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
> >  imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.
> >  
> >>>>
> This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
> may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies 
> of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
> which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden.  I have seen
> these photos, and I cannot imagine anything more horrific.  Death by
> gas would have been merciful in comparison.  Indeed, the allies had used
> and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.

Frau"lien Schwarzesel is back! Amazing. I we can see she continues on with
her scumbag Nazi apologia without a missing a beat. 

If Frau"lien Schwarzesel had trouble imagining something more horrific
than the bombing of Dresden (which was indeed terrible), then I suggest
she read the descriptions of how defenseless and innocent people were
gassed, shot, tortured, starved, and burned to death by the Nazis in the
extermination and concentration camps, and in the "field" and ghettos. All
not because these innoicents were waging war against the Nazis, but simply
because the Nazis considered them sub-human, or in the case of Jews
-vermin to be annihilated "root and branch." 

Nizkor has plenty of articles and images in regard to such atrocities.
Nizkor also has  nifty search engine to aid in locating the descriptions
of said attrocities: 

http://www.nizkor.org/
http://www.nizkor.org/search.html


For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:33 PST 1996
Article: 80774 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!news.nacamar.de!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Criminal Giwer is Wrong Again
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:40:21 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <56haq0$hqb@news3.gte.net> <56jhue$sp8@news.enter.net> <328eb9c3.107662611@news.gte.net> <328f9c4b.178112648@news.txdirect.net> <3291898b.88159934@news.micron.net> <3291DF31.7582@rio.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3291DF31.7582@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

> Chuck Ferree writes:
> 
> "The criminal giwer is wrong again!" Or to put it another way. The 
> Liar Gywier is still wrong. Kurt, who may be of some relation 
> (probably un-wholesome) to gywer defends him as if he could persuade 
> someone out there of something well...uh..Mmmm...lost my train of 
> thought forget it.
> 
> stele, you lil turd, you gonna come after me like a mad dog?

Mr. Ferree, it has not been demonstrated as yet that Mr. Smith _can_ carry
a dialogue any other way but as a "mad dog!"  

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:34 PST 1996
Article: 80778 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!ape-server.inetone.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:20:59 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <56hatd$hqb@news3.gte.net> <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[Mr. Allen's fantasies snipped]

> The Sondercommando were given special
> treatment, they lived at the edge of camp with
> little or no security, and they eagerly assisted the
> Germans.  

As has been demonstrated in several posts in this thread already, Mr.
Allen is being quite deceptive in suggesting that the Sonderkommando
"lived at the edge of camp with little or no security, and they eagerly
assisted the Germans."

The fact was, that the Sonderkommando _did_ have a better standard of
living than the average prisoner, but this is true of many prisoners who
worked with, and came in daily contact with the Nazis. (They Nazis were a
tad concerned about catching diseases and such from the prisoners they
worked with, so they made sure said priosoners lived better and had the
opportunity to maintain better health and hygeine.) 

This, of course, does not negate the fact that the Sonderkommando lived
within a the Krema compounds that were ringed with an electrified fence
and guard towers with armed guards in them. Or that after each major
special action the Sonderkommado was itself in turn exterminated. Of all
the Sonderkommando squads that replaced each other (around eleven or so, I
believe) only one Sonderkommando openly rebelled against the Nazis,
setting afire and severely damaging Krema IV. 

Does this mean that the Sonderkommando "eagerly assisted the Germans?" No,
that is yet another of Mr. Allen's pernicious lies. In reading some the
reovered Sonderkommando diaries and the accounts of surviving
Sonderkommados, one can not, in all honesty, remotely suggest that the
Sonderkommando ""eagerly assisted the Germans." 

But then, who said Mr. Allen was even a remotely honest person? 

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:35 PST 1996
Article: 80797 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Open Letter to Moran, Giwer, Hardwire, et al
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:00:15 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References:  <3291922b.90368072@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3291922b.90368072@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Kiss the collective unwiped ass, hypocrite.

[snip]

Mr. Smith, it has been my observatin over the years that a dog relishes
licking its _own_ butt. So feel free to go for it, you bowser!  

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:35 PST 1996
Article: 80813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:34:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <32941823.255760674@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32941823.255760674@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:36 PST 1996
Article: 80815 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mr. Raven, please cite your sources
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 02:25:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References: <199611180840.DAA10236@vixa.voyager.net> <32909CCF.4347@kaiwan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32909CCF.4347@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Jamie McCarthy wrote:
> > 
> > (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
> > alt.revisionism)
> > 
> > While preparing my response to your definition switcheroo (in the thread
> > "Mr. Raven, please explain the contradiction"), I stumbled across the
> > following text on Mr. Raven's website.
> > 
> > I would like to ask him to give sources for this material and to ask why
> > he didn't feel it necessary to cite sources on the web page itself.
> > (snip)
> 
> Your question assumes facts not in evidence. I wanted to provide
> citations, but in translating from FrameMaker format to HTML, the
> references did not come across. Full citations will be provided in the
> print and final HTML versions of this article.

Translated: Mr Raven's computer ate his "homework." 

Yeah, sure. :-/

> In point of fact, Mr. McCarthy, it is you who is attempting a
> "switcheroo." I agreed to YOUR definition of "Holocaust" for the
> purposes of keeping our original discussion on track, that being, what
> proof is there of Nazi gas chambers. You failed miserably at providing
> any such proof, and ever since then you have been nattering about how I
> have changed my definition of "Holocaust." The definition of "Holocaust"
> was not important to the discussion of Nazi gas chambers, although given
> your "proof" of Nazi gas chambers I can certainly appreciate why you
> have attempted time and again to derail the discussion into irrelevant
> areas.

Yeah, sure. :-/

For evidence of Mr. Raven's scurrilous Nazi apologia and lies, please visit: 

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/deny-holocaust.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/myopia.0195
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/lies-damn-lies.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/lies-damn-lies.02
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/physical-evidence.01
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/r/raven.greg/raven-quote-doctoring.01

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:37 PST 1996
Article: 80826 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:06:11 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <32949867.5573294@199.0.216.204>  <3293c26e.945369@199.0.216.204>  <32918287.86363208@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32918287.86363208@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Sewage engineer and Nizkook commandant Van Smellstein cherishes even
> the last particle of Holofraud feces with the utmost gusto and
> gravity.  No lie too big, no testimony too contradictory,
> exaggerative, or ridiculous to arouse the glands of the Nizkooks to
> its defense. 

[Mr. Smith's Nazi whining snipped]



"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:38 PST 1996
Article: 80840 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 14:11:19 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 156
Message-ID: 
References: <32939ec0.76799650@news.gte.net> <19961121052700.AAA03293@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961121052700.AAA03293@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 21 Nov 1996 
> 
> >> The VanAlstine Tales (continued) 
> > 
> >> In the center of the room, at thirty-yard intervals, 
> >> columns rose from the concrete floor to the
> >> ceiling. 
> >>          THIRTY-YARD INTERVALS?  THAT IS NOT CORRECT,
> >> IS IT, MARK?    (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, pp.48-51.) 
> 
> >Indeed it isn't, Mr. Allen. But then, I never 
> >claimed it was. 

>Why post stories that you know are incorrect?

Nyiszli recounting what he saw was not incorrect, Mr. Allen. Nyiszli's
estimate of the the dimensions of the the L.Kellers were. 

Or are you of the school of thought, Mr. Allen, that if one witnesses a
car accident, but incorrectly estimates the speeds of the cars when they
collided, that the accident didn't take place? 

> >That Nyiszli was wrong in the dimensions 
> >of the size of the L.Kellers?
> >Indeed he was Mr. Allen. But of course, that is of 
> >little matter, as we
> >have not only the testimonies of other 
> >witnesses, but the ruins of the
> >L.Kellers to examine and construction plans as well.... 
> 
> "Indeed he was...Little matter"?   Nyiszeli is wrong by a 
> factor of 4 or 5.  Let's leave the the evaluation of his 
> testimony to the readers. 

Then why make such a fuss, Mr. Allen? Especially when the actual
dimensions are quite well known? And when many of the details other
details Nyizli relates match up with those of other ewyewitnesses? 

Could it be, perhaps, Mr. Allen, that lacking any cogent rebuttal, you are
simpy grasping at straws in trying to discredit Nysizli? 

Why, I'm simply _shocked_ at such a thought!  8-o
 
> "testimonies of other witnesses" ?  Can you cite
> any witnesses whose testimony is accurate 
> regarding the size of the Leichenkellers, number 
> vital Zyclon induction vents, or their spacing?

Henryk Tauber comes to mind. His description of the Kremas and L.Kellers
are pretty accurate. 

> "the ruins and construction plans"  yes, these generally
> contradict the eyewitnesses in basic details.

And confirms them as well. "Forgot" about that, eh, Mr. Allen?

> >> How do you explain the descriptions of:
> >> 1.  Standing on the Crematorium roof;
> 
> >That was Broad describing a gassing at Krema I.

> Yes, please explain why you quoted a story you know is inaccurate.

Is Broad's description of the gassing he witnessed in Krema I innacurate,
Mr. Allen? I don't remember saying that.... Are you, perhaps, "confused"
again, Mr. Allen? Do you want to go lie down for a while? 

> >> 2.  The entrance "hall";
>      
> >That was Broad describing a gassing at Krema I.
>
>  Yes, please explain why you quoted a story
>  you know is inaccurate.  

Is Broad's description of the gassing he witnessed in Krema I innacurate,
Mr. Allen? I don't remember saying that.... Are you, perhaps, "confused"
again, Mr. Allen? Do you want to go lie down for a while? 

> You know that there is and never was an "entrance hall"  into Leichenkeller 2.

Indeed. It was in Krema I. Just like Broad described. Are you, perhaps,
"confused" again, Mr. Allen? Do you want to go lie down for a while? 

> >> 3.  The "iron ramp"
> 
> >To quote Pressac: "Correct. These iron railings 
> > were found in the <> (yard for building materials) 
>     
> "Ramp"  not "railings".  We know the railings  existed. 

Indeed we do, Mr. Allen.

> What iron RAMP?  

AKA the iron railings, Mr. Allen. (Isn't it just _amazing_ that these
deniers can get so literal-minded when they want to? One might think it
was, well, _intentional_ or something!) 

> Is Yale going to come up a definition to get you out of this one?

No need. You're doing a fine job all by yourself, Mr. Allen!

> > 4.  The enourmus (sic)  room with the 6 foot ceiling;
> 
> >Mr. Allen, according to Huta Drawing 109/14a of 21/9/43, 
> >L.Keller 2's  ceiling was 2.4 meters above the floor. 
>     Drawing on page 323  Technique  has the Floor to beam
>      height as 1.99 meters.  Around 6.5 feet.  The beam
>      ran down the middle lenght of the room.  Clearance
>      in the room was 6.5 feet.

Oh, my. And how wide was the beam Mr. Allen? A few tens of centimeters?
And how wide was the ceiling? Over 7 meters. And yet you say the ceiling
of the L.Keller was the height of the support beam? 

The fact remains that the concrete CEILING of L.Keller 2, as shown in 
Huta Drawing 109/14a of 21/9/43, is annotated as being 2.4 m above the
floor. All your preverications and dissimulation wil not change that fact,
Mr. Allen. 

So why don't you stop being such a putz about it? 

>> >> 5.  The description of the Leichenkeller as being 200 yards long;
> 
> >Incorrect. L.Keller 2's interior length was 49.49 m. 
>     Rather, the story you quoted was about 150 yards off, 
>     about a factor of 4.  A mere football field and a half.  

Indeed. But as I said, L.Keller 2's interior length was 49.49 m.

So why don't you stop being such a putz about it? You can't score any
points by trying to discredit Nysizli, Mr. Allen. His recounting of what
he lived through ids a narrative, not a forensic recitation. He is wrong
in some of the details yet damningly correct in the overall picture. 

And that just puts your knickers in a twist too. 


For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:38 PST 1996
Article: 80843 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:12:26 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 237
Message-ID: 
References: <32939ec0.76799650@news.gte.net> <19961121052800.AAA03299@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961121052800.AAA03299@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> >> 6.  3,000 people undressing in the room;
>  >Do you not think that 3,000 people could _not_ be 
> >crammed into L.Keller 1.
>      Your quote was about 3,000 people being tricked into
>       a room and UNDRESSING there, not being "crammed"
>        into a particular space.  L.Keller 2's interior measured 
>         7.93 m x 49.43 m. (TECHNIQUE. p.327.) That's
>          about 26' x 164' or 4264 square feet, NOT counting
>          pillars, benches, guards.  The story you quoted
>          has 3,000 people (plus the eager Sondercommandos
>          and guards) packed into and getting UNDRESSED
>          in about 1.4 square feet per person.  
>   I suggest you, Danny Keren, J. Morris, Yale, (maybe Sara
>   Perrrfect will go too), Gord McFee, Jamie and 2 others
>  all get into your regular 3' by 4' shower (only with 6.5
> feet of headroom).  Please try to disrobe.  Multiply
> the scene by 300 and you will see why the story you
> fervently quote actually might seem a little "incorrect"
>  
> >> 7.  The claim that Leichekeller 1 and 2 connected;
> 
> >No such explicit claim was made, Mr. Allen. 
> >When one has the werewithall to examine the 
> >construction documents of
> >Krema II to before commenting on this, it 
> >becomes quite obvious that a
> >small vestibule connected L.Kellers 1 and 2. 
>     Little connecting room left out.  Sort impedes the
> "flow" of people doesn't it?  Especially at densities
> of 1.4 people per sq. foot.  Forgot the other basement
> rooms too, didn't he?
> 
> > Considering this,
>     Considering what?  That Nysizli didn't look at the
> plans before giving his "testimony"?
> 
> >one can easily forgive Nysizli for
> >not being more explicit and mentioning such 
> >a small room as the vestibule was. 
> 
>     Yes, such a small room, so inconvient to the story.
> Why be explicit when talking about the murder scene
> of 100,000's of people?  Why bother with a an
> extra room or two?  

You mean like erronously claiming three Zyklon B introduction holes in the
roof of L.Keller 1? Or claiming that the greenbelt of Krema II was the
electified perimeter fence? Or that Broad wrote that only one SS man
guarded the victims as they went to Krema I? 

> Nysizli was only a self-proclaimed
> rare "eyewitness" to murders, no need to be accurate,
> no historical value here.

On the contrary, there is immense historical value from Nyiszli's memoirs.
Especially when it put into the proper context by comparing it with other
ewyewitness accounts, documents, testomonies, physical evidence, etc.

But such nuances in evaluating the historical evidence obviously falls on
deaf ears with Mr. Allen. Must be the din of that Nazi propaganda his
employer, the IHR, churns out....

> >It simply was not important to the narrative. 
> >A narrative who's purpose, lest we forget, was 
> >in describing the horror of a mass homicidal
> >gassing -and not the minutae of the Krema's 
> contruction and layout.
>     Nyiszli spends a lot of time describing the Krema's
>      layout, most of it wrong.

Indeed. It is unfortunate. But then, I suppose you'd complain I he got it
all right too.... 

However, the salient fact remains: Much of what Nyislzi described matches
what other ewewitnesses also described. Often to a tee. 

And _that_ is a point, Mr. Allen, that you obviously fear to deal with
because you have nothing but your all too painfully obvious crackpot
theories and rubbish to rebut with. 

>  Of course, the point is to get some idea of the accuracy
> of Nyiszli.  As you just write, he is not accurate.

No, in some respects, he isn't accurate. In other respects he is all too
accurate. A point you all too quickly (and dishonestlyy) overlook. 

> >Your nit-picking over Nyiszli's ommision of such minutae, for example,
> >makes one wonder as to your motivations. "nit-picking"?  Missing the lenght 
> > of the gas chamber by 450 feet is minutae?  

Whining about the "iron ramp" is. Whining about the height of the ceiling
in the L.Keller is. Whining about Nysizli not mentioning the vestibule
between the L.Kellers is. 

> Forgetting rooms, putting
> people into Undressing rooms at 1 per 1.4 sq. feet
> minutae.  Rember, this guy claims to be a doctor
> who lived in Krema II.  Not a guess based on a quick peek.
> Let's see what your "eyewitness" says about the
> vital Zyclon induction holes.

I'd be more concerned about that yourself, Mr. Allen. You've seem ed to
have "lost" one of them if I recall....

> >> 8.  Thirty yards between porous pillars?
> 
> >>Incorrect. The spacing was likely on the order of 4.45 meters
> 
> Your eyewitness is incorrect again by a factor of 6.

And? 

> By the way, he implys that there were 200 yards divided
> by 30 yards or SIX vents.  

Did he say there was six vents, Mr. Allen? No. (Trying to put words into
people's mouths again, I see...) 

> This ties in with the number in another quote you posted.  

Obviously, Mr. Allen, you _haven't_, figured out that Broad and Nyiszli
_aren't_ the same person. Or that Krema I and Krema II aren't the same
building.

> Of course, ol' Doctor N. couldn't bothered to be clear on such minor details
> as the number of vents. 

And neither can you, it seems. Pot. Kettle. Black. Mr. Allen.

> What do you think he meant?

I think Nyiszli meant that he saw a undergound homicidal gas chamber with
four Zyklon B introduction columns in it. That he saw a mass of people go
into it, and that he saw a Red Cross ambulance pull up and the
"disinfectors" get out and pour Zyklon B down the "short concrete pipes"
sticking up out of the ground where the gas chamber was, and that this
killed all the people in the gas chambers in a few minutes. After that he
saw gas chamber aerated and after the door was opened some 20-30 minutes
later, that he saw the horrific sight of the dead piled up against the
corners of the gas chamber , away from the Zyklon B introduction columns. 


And isn't it a "coincindence" that Bendl, Tauber, and Mu"ller relate the
same thing, Mr. Allen? 

> Why you post stories with so many inaccuracies in them?

Because, Mr. Allen, despite the inaccuracies, there is a powerful truth in
them. That despite the inaccuracies, there are many _accuracies_ in them.
That despite the inaccuracies, when examined together with other evidence,
the picture of the Nazi atrocities at Auschwitz becomes ever clearer.

And _that_, Mr. Allen, is something you abhor: that the Nazi crime of
genocide becomes crystal clear for all to see. So you lash out, flinging
your Nazi excrement at it, hoping it will stick and obscure the crimes of
your heroes. 

But it won't happen that way, Mr. Allen. The blood and memories of the 12
million innocent men, women, and children murdered by your heroes will
wash away  all your vile and evil attempts at killing their memory -and
the truth.

> You just admitted that these stories do not conform to
> what you know is at the site in any specific point

No, Mr. Allen, there you go trying to put words into people's mouths
again. I've often observed that to be a sign of insecurity, Mr. Allen. Of
course, given your crackpot theories and Nazi apologia, you have _every_
right to feel insecure!

What I _have_ stated, Mr. Allen, is that Nyiszli was wrong in _some_
aspects to the layout of the L.Kellers. Some _specific_ aspects. Of
course, I would point out that _you_, on the other hand, have studiously
avoided addressing the specific aspects of the layout of the Krema and
L.Kellers in which Nyiszli is correct about. A few of these are: 

The window from which Nyizli viewed the deportees disembarking from the "ramp."

The water faucets in the Krema compound.

The path leading to L.Keller 2.

The "iron ramp" (the _railings_) of L.Keller 2's access stairway.

The ten concrete steps of the access stairway of L.Keller 2.

The double doors of L.Keller 2 leading to the vestibule.

The "square sheet-iron pipes, the sides of which contained numerous
perforations, like a wire lattice." AKA the Zyklon B introduction columns.

The Red Cross car carring the "disinfectors" and the Zyklon B. 

The "short concrete pipes" of the "little chimneys." 

The "disinfectors" putting on his gas mask, opening the cans of Zyklon B
and pouring them into the Zyklon B introduction columns.

The time it takes to kill the victims. (5 minutes.) 

The ventilation system used to deaerate the gas chamber.

The horrific spectacle of the bloody victims piled up against the sides of
the gas chamber, and away from the Zyklon B introduction columns.

etc. etc.

[snip]

>     As I asked
> >> Do you just accept these stories without
> >> thinking about them? And get furious with
> >> people who do?

No, Mr. Alan. But considering your blind acceptance (and promulgation) of
denier fictions and Nazi apologia, do _you_ get furious with people who
examine _your_ lies? 

Apparantly so.

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:39 PST 1996
Article: 80847 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:15:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <56hatd$hqb@news3.gte.net> <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <3293c75a.235077178@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293c75a.235077178@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> For those interested in the impotent scribblings of Holocaust Shaman
> Marred Van Smellstein -- as furious as they are foolish --  in an
> amusing and pathetic flurry of lies and regurgitated offal served up
> with the flair of a seasoned and enthusiastic fecal collector, tune in
> any old day of the year to:
> 
> Alt.revisionism.   Look under any post of "Mark Van Alstine."

Indeed, and it will very likely show how easy it is to put Mr. Smith in
his proper place: the toilet.

I will leave the flushing as an excercise for the reader.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:40 PST 1996
Article: 80866 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 03:50:20 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tppq$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tppq$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Back to Posen again! 

[Frau"lien Schwarzesel's Nazi apologia snipped]

One wonders, as seeing that the Giwer-swine has obviously fled, tail
tucked firmly btween his legs, from Mr. McVay's challenge in regard to
Himmler's speech:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/mcvay-ken/put-up-shut-up.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/edeiken-yale/put-up-shut-up.html

...That perhaps Mr. McVay would extend his cordial invititation to
Frau"lien Schwarzesel? This would allow the juvenile Frau"lien Schwarzesel
to back up her big mouth with her allowance. 

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel's increasingly
irrelevent scumbag Nazi apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:40 PST 1996
Article: 80867 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:11:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 111
Message-ID: 
References: <56hatd$hqb@news3.gte.net> <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <3293c75a.235077178@news.micron.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> 
> # These are the Sonderkommando who Holofraud witness Numero
> # Uno (Ho'ss) said were eating and smoking upon removing the
> # bodies "immediately after gassing.
> 
> For the record, that would have been possible in the
> gas chambers that were forcibly ventilated (in Kremas II
> and III). However, I can't recall reading the "immediately
> after gassing" in Hoess' autobiography. Can you give us
> a page number, and prove that you are not, again, lying
> through your teeth?

Mr. Smith is indeed lying through his teeth. Perhaps a closer examination
of _exactly_ Ho"ss said is in order? To whit:

"...They dragged the dragged the bodies from the gas chambers, removed the
gold teeth, cut off the hair, then dragged the bodies to the pits or to
the ovens. On top of that, they had to maintain the fires in the pits,
pour off the accumulated fat, poke holes into the burning mountains of
bodies, so that more oxygen could enter. All these jobs they performed
with an indifferent coolness, just as if this was an everyday affair.
While dragging the bodies, they ate and smoked. Even the the gruesome job
of burning the bodies dug up after being in mass graves for a long time
did not prevent them from eating...." (Ibid. p.160.) 

Where, exactly, did Ho"ss _specifically_ write, as Mr. Smith clearly
implied, that the Sonderkommandos ate and smoked while dragging bodies out
of the bunkers? Given that Ho"ss interjects many tasks between "they
dragged the the bodies from the gas chambers" and "while dragging the
bodies, they ate and smoked" -especially the task of dragging "the bodies
to the pits or to the ovens." It is self-evident from Ho"ss memoirs that
any such claim the Sonderkommandos ate and smoked while dragging bodies
out from _inside_ the bunkers is ambigious at best. Obviously, further
clarification is needed. 

Such further clarification can be had from Szlama Dragon, who was a
Sonderkommando at bunker 2 in December of 1942. From the testimony of
Szlama Dragon, recorded on on May 10, 1945; The Ho"ss Trial, vol. 1, pp.
102-121:

"...We were lined up in front of the house. Moll arrived and told us we
would work here at burning old and lousy people, that we would be given
something to eat and in the evening would be taken back to the camp. He
added that those who did not accept the work would be beaten and have the
dogs set on them. The SS who escorted us were accompanied by dogs. Then he
split us into a number of groups. I myself and eleven other were detailed,
as we learnt later, to remove the bodies from this cottage. We were given
gas masks, and led to the cottage. When Moll had opened the door, we saw
that the cottage was full of naked corpses of both sexes and of all ages.
Moll ordered us to move the corpses from the cottage to the yard, in front
of the door. We started work with four men carrying one body. This annoyed
Moll. He rolled up his sleeves and threw a body  into the yard. When,
despite this example, we said we were incapable of doing that, he allowed
us to carry them, two mwn to a body. Once the corpses were laid in the
yard, the dentist, assisted by an SS man, pulled out the teeth [Dragon
forgets the removal of rings and jewels, unless they had been removed
earlier], and the barber, also watched by an SS man, cut off the hair.
ANother group loaded the bodies onto wagons running on rails that led to
the edge of the pits. These rails ran between two pits. Still another
group prepared the pit for burning the corpses. First of all, big logs
were put in the bottom, then smaller and smaller wood in criss-cross
fashion, and finally dry twigs. The following group through the bodies
into the pit. Once all the bodies had been brought from the cottage to the
pit, Moll poured kerosene over them in the four corners of the pit and set
fire to it by throwing in a burning rubber comb (roughly fringed piece of
rubber. That is how the corpses were burnt. While Moll was starting the
fire, we were in front of the cottage, (on the north-west side) and could
see what he was doing.

"After having removed all the bodies from the cottage, we were obligded to
clean it thoroughly, washing the floor with water and spreading sawdust
and whitewashing the walls...." (Pressac, _Technique_, p.171.) 

>From  Dragon's testimony it is self-evident that the Sonderkommando were
divided into groups, each with specific tasks. One group was issued gas
masks and had to move the corspes from the bunker to the yard. A different
group, without gas masks, moved corpses from the yard to the pits.
Clearly, from this further clarification, it becomes equally self-evident
that when Ho"ss wrote that the Sonderkommando ate and smoked while moving
the bodies he was writing about the group that moved the bodies from the
yard to the pit. 

Equally clear is that this whole issue of of "eating and smoking," is
nothing more than a red herring of Mr. Smith's doing to make an issue over
a non-issue. I find that rather duplicitous and evidence of a lack of
integrity on Mr. Smith's part. 

But then who ever claimed that Mr. Smith _wasn't_ duplicitous or _had_ any
integrity? Not I.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:41 PST 1996
Article: 80869 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.interactive.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:37:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tbbt$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com> <3293f7a4.247440966@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293f7a4.247440966@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

I"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:42 PST 1996
Article: 80870 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.interactive.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the screams and groans of the people died away'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:39:21 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tkhf$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <329ab52e.48410036@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3293f4e3.246735987@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293f4e3.246735987@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:43 PST 1996
Article: 80871 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!news.good.net!news.good.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:24:03 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tppq$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>  <3294387c.264043280@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294387c.264043280@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Van Schmaltzstink continues to eructate his noxious prevarications
> throughout the forum.   Not content to providing his body for the
> satyric joys of his Nizkook masters in the Synagogue's inner sanctum
> (and his own), he seeks further expression of his debased urges by
> continually and openly propositioning rb, in self-abased hatred of Van
> Schmaltzstink's own jealous sexual ambiguity.

[snip]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:43 PST 1996
Article: 80872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S ********************************
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:22:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <56sqj1$rio@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <56tmbi$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>  <329422f9.258535661@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329422f9.258535661@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Van Schmaltzstink continues to eructate his noxious prevarications
> throughout the forum.   Not content to providing his body for the
> satyric joys of his Nizkook masters in the Synagogue's inner sanctum
> (and his own), he seeks further expression of his debased urges by
> continually and openly propositioning rb, in abased self-hatred of Van
> Schmaltzstink's own jealous sexual ambiguity.
> 

[snip]

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:44 PST 1996
Article: 80873 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Sometimes entire transports were gassed'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:23:59 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tibi$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>  <32941f94.257666663@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32941f94.257666663@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Bring coffee, a bucket, and a nose-clip (for the stench of Van
> Schmaltzstink's odious drivel).

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:45 PST 1996
Article: 80875 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!nntp.zit.th-darmstadt.de!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!news.good.net!news.good.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:24:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tppq$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <32943911.264192309@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32943911.264192309@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:45 PST 1996
Article: 80877 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.interactive.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:48:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com> <3287a6c3.9663559@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56f6p7$f22@Vir.com> <328c8977.2982357@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56rcb3$uv1@Vir.com>  <570g3q$tnf@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <570g3q$tnf@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> > In article <56rcb3$uv1@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu 
wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > >  The claim of a hidden camera in a bag is ludicrous.
> > 
> > Not nearly as ludicrous as Mr. Beaulieu's claims that an actor played the
> > part of Suchomel, etc.
> > 
> > Isn't it about time that this sad farce of Mr. Beaulieu's be put to rest? 
> 
> 
>  I've see those minutes about the interview perhaps 20 or 25
>  times. 

And you _still_ can't figure it out? Pretty sad....

[Mr. Beaulieu's drivel snipped]

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/beaulieu-misrepresents-hoess
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/shoah-suchomel-faked.01

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:46 PST 1996
Article: 80879 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.interactive.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:58:18 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 59
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com>   <56nppm$b9c@Vir.com> <328fef61.24450673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <570gjq$tnf@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <570gjq$tnf@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

[snip]

>   This is approximativelly how I remember this letter. 

As usual, Mr. Beaulieu "remembers" wrong.

According to the "Operating Instructions for Coke-Fired Topf Double-Muffle
Incinerating Furnace" [PMO file 11/1, page 31]: 

"...Once the cremation chamber (muffle) has been brought to a good red
heat (aprproximately 800 C), the corpses can be introduced one after
another in the cremation chambers." 

"...After each incineration, the temperature rises in the furnace. For
this reason, care must be taken that the internal temperature does not
rise above 1100 C (white heat).

"This increase in temperature can be avoided by introducing additional
fresh air. (_Technique_, p.136.) 

So, the furnaces could operate up to 1100 C without problems.

>  Oven today can support temperatures which are sometimes twice. 

As usual, Mr. Beaulieu is wrong.

As to the operating temperatures of modern crematory furnaces, according
to the "Internet Cremation Society FAQ" the "temperature at which
cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most
machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F." 

Source: http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml#At what temperature

1500-1900 F is approximately 815-1037 C. The operating temperature of the
Topf double muffle furnace was about 800-1100 C (1472-2012 F). There was
no appreciable difference in operating temperatures. 

> You are again playing with words.

And Mr. Beaulieu is playing without a full deck of cards. Again.

For those interested in Mr. Beaulieu's prolific Holocaust denial and
crackpot "theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/beaulieu-misrepresents-hoess
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/shoah-suchomel-faked.01

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:47 PST 1996
Article: 80882 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 73
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tlh2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <56u2eh$802@access2.digex.net> <3292ed5c.31796357@news.gte.net> <56vtcv$673@access5.digex.net> <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On 20 Nov 1996 16:32:15 -0500, mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P.
> Stein) wrote:
> 
> >    Mr. Blackmore and I were discussing evidence for the historicity of
> >the euthanasia program.  Do you agree that the hand-signed Hitler order is
> >valid physical evidence for the existence of a euthanasia program under
> >the Nazi regime, or is there some revision of the accepted history which
> >should be discussed?  If so, let us discuss it.  If not, please do not try
> >to sidetrack the discussion onto matters outside the topic of this
> >newsgroup.
> >
> >    Your cooperation is appreciated.
> 
> You must have missed the point.  What is in issue (not even) is only
> whether the "Euthanasia program" Hitler adopted is any different at
> all from any other humane Euthanasia program for the terminally ill.

Yet another Nazi red herring from Mr. Smith.

Considering that Hitler's "Euthanasia" program killed the mentally
disabled without their (or their relatives') consent, clearly evidences
the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.

Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.

And this, of course, does not even address the issue of that the T4
program was expanded to include the concentration camp system to
exterminate the phsyically ill and feeble inmates who, due to Nazi
brutality and privation, could no longer work. And the murder of the of
the Jews, of course. 

> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:48 PST 1996
Article: 80884 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:12:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com> <3287a6c3.9663559@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56f6p7$f22@Vir.com> <328c8977.2982357@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56rcb3$uv1@Vir.com>  <329161d3.31003240@news.gte.net> <329242c3.63542591@news.txdirect.net> <3293d597.238722378@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293d597.238722378@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:48 PST 1996
Article: 80885 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:13:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <328eee19.93556313@news.micron.net> <56ttr0$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <3293d3e4.238286877@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293d3e4.238286877@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:49 PST 1996
Article: 80893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goebbels Talks About the Jews, II
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:26:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tpfv$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <329437c2.263856869@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329437c2.263856869@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:50 PST 1996
Article: 80894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Frank Talks About the Jews, I
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:27:28 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References:  <56um6c$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>  <32943726.263701558@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32943726.263701558@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Van Schmaltzstink continues to eructate his noxious prevarications
> throughout the forum.   Not content to providing his body for the
> satyric joys of his Nizkook masters in the Synagogue's inner sanctum
> (which is to say his own), he seeks further expression of his debased
> urges by continually and openly propositioning rb, in self-abased
> hatred of Van Schmaltzstink's own jealous sexual ambiguity.

[snip]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:50 PST 1996
Article: 80895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'That would be more pleasant than to let them starve to death'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:28:37 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tijm$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com> <329436ae.263581644@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329436ae.263581644@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:51 PST 1996
Article: 80896 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:30:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204>  <3291cb05.261388@199.0.216.204>  <3294333c.262698570@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294333c.262698570@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> "Those who are determined to see Solzhenitzsyn as an anti-Semite will
> no doubt be reinforced in their prejudices by the fact that in his
> rogues gallery of Gulag torturers Jews play a very prominent part.  
> 
> Leonard Shapiro, _The New York Review of Books_, November 13, 1975.
> 
> On page 79 of Gulag Two, Solzhenitzsyn gives us the photographs of the
> six top administrators of the Soviet slave-labor system [ Aaron Solts,
> Naftely Frankel, Yakov Rappaport, Matvei Berman, Lazar Kogan, Genrikh
> Yagoda] -- the only six commissars portrayed in the book.   All six
> are Jews.  
> 
> Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:52 PST 1996
Article: 80897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:33:07 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tk0v$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <3293f3c0.246444900@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293f3c0.246444900@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:53 PST 1996
Article: 80898 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:45:28 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <56g5pr$mha$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <56tstg$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <3293d99f.239754708@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293d99f.239754708@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:53 PST 1996
Article: 80912 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Did Hitler Commit the Unforgivable Sin?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:20:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <56pird$elr@basement.replay.com> <32917a49.37265733@news.gte.net>  <32943513.263170575@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:49912 alt.revisionism:80912

In article <32943513.263170575@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:54 PST 1996
Article: 80916 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net>  <327a0973.2522479@news.demon.co.uk>  <56har6$hqb@news3.gte.net> <56qhc0$4nm$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <3290d426.116645870@news.gte.net> <32923b57.61642225@news.txdirect.net> <32927631.1289529@news.gte.net> <3292adb2.11610489@news.txdirect.net> <3292f192.32874589@news.gte.net>  <3293d728.239123141@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:93200 alt.revisionism:80916

In article <3293d728.239123141@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:50:48 -0500, schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka
> Perrrfect) wrote:
> 
> >Mr. Giwer quotes an entire thread to Harry Mazelto post these two
> >sentences, and of course, his huge .sig.
> > 
> >Let's take a vote... Which of the two gentlemen involved in this discussion
> >is *really* not welcome here?
> > 
> >Sara
> 
> YOU'RE not welcome here in alt.revisionism you presumptious Nizkook
> freak.   Why don't you take your phony cheeseball Holocaust (tm) crap
> and go to hell?
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:55 PST 1996
Article: 80920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Umfallen" and deliberate mistranslation
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:40:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <56pkp0$p1p$2@gruvel.une.edu.au> <56t8mg$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com> <32941262.254288222@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32941262.254288222@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:55 PST 1996
Article: 80923 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:35:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <848404577.3949.2@vertigo.combase.com> <56sn7b$jse@news.enter.net> <3293d803.239342553@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293d803.239342553@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Lying Jew lawyer.
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:56 PST 1996
Article: 80927 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More lies and tortured confessions?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:31:15 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <56q24b$jrk@access5.digex.net> <56trfb$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <32942c9f.261005785@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32942c9f.261005785@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:57 PST 1996
Article: 80950 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:22:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tqia$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <32943981.264303776@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32943981.264303776@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:58 PST 1996
Article: 80962 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!out2.nntp.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!mr.net!news.idt.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jabotinsky to force Congress
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:42:49 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <32939b5e.1025889@news.zippo.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter) writes:
> 
> # "...Jabotinsky insisted that all energies be expended to
> # force the Congress to join the  boycott movement.
> 
> You suppose it could have had something to do with the
> fact that Germany was ruled by someone who wrote, a few
> years earlier, that Jews are vermin, etc, and expressed
> his desire to see Jews killed by poison gas?
> 
> Suppose country X was ruled by someone who said such
> things about Americans. How would America react?

Er, didn't we bomb the crap out of Iraq? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:58 PST 1996
Article: 80972 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Nazis Punished For Killing Jews'? I
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:49:20 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tg78$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>  <3294afa4.294551421@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294afa4.294551421@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> On page 79 of Gulag Two, Solzhenitzsyn gives us the photographs of the
> six top administrators of the Soviet slave-labor system [ Aaron Solts,
> Naftely Frankel, Yakov Rappaport, Matvei Berman, Lazar Kogan, Genrikh
> Yagoda] -- the only six commissars portrayed in the book.   All six
> are Jews.  
> 
> Kurt Stele

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:28:59 PST 1996
Article: 80999 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:18:58 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 84
Message-ID: 
References: <3294adad.46489510@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56umlq$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com> <3295787d.41567844@news> <3294bfdc.298704397@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294bfdc.298704397@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:43:28 GMT, pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:
> 
> >On 20 Nov 1996 10:31:22 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >
> >>>   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
> >>>  In <56taum$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >>>  
> >(dkeren's citation snipped for brevity)  
> >>>  [snip]
> >>>  
> >>>  >When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?
> >>>  
> >>>  
> >>>  You have the reference. Look it up.
> >>>  
> >>>  --
> >>>   John Morris                                
> >>>   at University of Alberta  
> >>>  -- 
> >>>  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
> >>>  
> >>>>>>
> >>Thanks for that instructive piece of advice.  Funny how I never
> >>thought of it.  When I post something in the future and you happen
> >>to ask for the source, I will be sure to give you the same answer, so
> >>don't whine like a baby like you usually do when you get the reply you
> >>deserve.
> >I would hope that you will at some point in your cyber life gain some
> >knowledge, you have been given the source for the quotes, it is
> >entirely up to you now to look up the citation and spend some of your
> >time and effort, both of which are in short supply and hardly of even
> >the most dubious of quality.
> 
> Sure.  I'll just take your word for it Nizkook.
>               
> >Nizkor (USA) - An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
> >Nizkor Web: http://www.nizkor.org/
> >Anonymous ftp: http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?  
> >European mirror: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
> 
> Services held at 10:00 A.M. this Saturday and every Saturday.
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:00 PST 1996
Article: 81002 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ANTI-SEMITISM : Canadians outside Quebec should not....
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:12:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References: <32944f5d.14979146@news.atreide.net>  <3294c16f.299107739@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294c16f.299107739@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about it.  The fact is that
> Jews don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and never have.
> They kill, cheat, and lie for their own interests and that of Israel.
> Just ask any Palestinian. 

More to the point: Just ask any Nazi. Like Mr. Smith. 

[snip]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:01 PST 1996
Article: 81003 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Revisionism is Great!
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 05:14:13 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <571i2b$792@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <3294c0f6.298986582@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294c0f6.298986582@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:02 PST 1996
Article: 81165 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!panix!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S ********************************
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 03:26:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 67
Message-ID: 
References: <56sqj1$rio@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <56tmbi$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <56vcd7$adv@lendl.cc.emory.edu><56sqj1$rio@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <56tmbi$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <56vcd7$adv@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <3293b335.81830066@news.gte.net> <5739ih$13di$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5739ih$13di$7@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <3293b335.81830066@news.gte.net> - gruppenfueher@jerusalem.verycom
> (BB)Thu, 21 Nov 1996 01:42:54 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>>Actually, I have no desire (at the moment, anyway) to debate the
> :>>relative merits of Mr. Giwer's spittle-flecked invective and Mr.
> :>>Van Alstine's characterization of you.  My point was that Giwer's
> :>>contributions to this newsgroup have, almost without exception,
> :>>been at the level of semi-coherent, mean-spirited nonsense.
> :>
> :>There must be some conference where your opinion of the participants
> :>in this conference are on topic.  Would you have the common courtesy
> :>to find that conference and post there? 
> 
> No.
> 
> Too fucking bad for Mr. Giwer.  We are here, we are in control, and we will
> not leave.  If Mr. Giwer and his ass-kissing bumboys don't like it, *they* may
> leave.

That would be a bit awkward at the moment I think. You see, the
Giwer-swine appears to be pre-occupied at the moment and is not in a
position to just up and leave quite yet.... 

He's bent over, grabbing his ankles, and shouting "Next!"

> He has lost utterly, *again*.

Indeed. 

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine (tm) is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying); refused to
document claims; pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him);
engaged in actual libel; blatant and offensive anti-Semitism; Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, prolifically abused the 'Net, sent e-mailbombs,
and harrassed people via e-mail; forged posts; and has generally conducted
himself with such a complete lack of moral, intellectual, and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond to such a perverted animal.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/giwer.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/griwer.matt/1996/giwer.1096

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:02 PST 1996
Article: 81196 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Could this be true?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:51:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <32948a8b.6040706@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32948a8b.6040706@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "Zionism was willing to sacrifice the whole of European Jewry
> for a Zionist State.  Everything was done to create a state of Israel
> and that was only possible through a world war.  Wall Street and
> Jewish large bankers aided the war effort on both sides. Zionists are
> also to  blame for provoking the growing hatred for Jews in 1988."
> 
>  (Joseph Burg, The Toronto Star,  March 31, 1988).
> 

"Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolph Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag on January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:03 PST 1996
Article: 81197 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!newspump.sol.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Jews regard our race as superior . . . .
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:54:23 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <32947206.6900502@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32947206.6900502@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look
> forward, not to its  ultimate union with other races, but to its
> triumph over them."
> 
>  (Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford
> University, October, 1981)

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:04 PST 1996
Article: 81198 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!newspump.sol.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:55:03 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <329457ab.153844@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329457ab.153844@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "Our fight against Germany must be carried to the limit of what
> is possible. Israel has  been attacked. Let us, therefore, defend
> Israel!  Against the awakened Germany, we put an awakened Israel. And
> the world will defend us."
> 
>  (Jewish author Pierre Creange in his book  Epitres aux Juifs, 1938)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:05 PST 1996
Article: 81199 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:48:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 255
Message-ID: 
References: <3293d184.237679440@news.micron.net> <19961122053200.AAA25211@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
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In article <19961122053200.AAA25211@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 21 Nov 1996 
> 
> >Mr. Smith is indeed lying through his teeth. 
> >I find that rather duplicitous and evidence of a lack of
> >integrity on Mr. Smith's part. 
> 
> >But then who ever claimed that Mr. Smith
> > _wasn't_ duplicitous or _had_ any integrity? Not I.
> 
> >For those interested in proof...[snip Mark's gibbering]
> 
> Now, now,Mark, you have posted stories of a 200 yard-long 
> gaschambers, of 3,000 people undressing in a 4,000 Square 
> foot room, of people going into halls which never existed,
> stories which omit inconvient rooms.  You admit that
> these elements of the stories are "incorrect" (your
> own word) but seem to get furious when other people
> question the accuracy of the stories....  



Mr. Allen, did I "get furious" when you questioned Nyiszli's estimate of
the dimensions of the L.Kellers? No. I _agreed_ with you that these
estimates were wrong. As for responding as I did to Mr. Smith's vapid
interjections, vulgarities, and lies? Why, _I_ can hardly be held at
fault! That Mr. Smith _is_ a liar _is_ fact! As are _your_ past lies and
intellectual dishonesty. All one needs to do is either look them up in
DejaNews or on Nizkor! 

So much for your silly ad hominem. 

The _real_ issue here, Mr. Allen, is that _you_ assert that because a few
of the details of Nyiszli's narrative are wrong and that this "proves"
that Nyiszli is an unreliable witness; that by implication _all_ the
details of his narrative are wrong; and by extension that homicidal
gassings _didn't_ take place at Krema II!

This, of course, is a fallacious chain of reasoning on your part. It is
also extremely dishonest of you. No suprises there. 

> You post stories you know are incorrect....

No. I have no reason to disbelieve what Nyiszli wrote about: The mass
murder of thousands of people in the gas chambers of Auschwitz. That you
attempt to otherwise put words into my mouth only highights your
intellectual dishonesty and lack of integrity. Again, no suprises there.

[Mr. Allen's ad hominem snipped]

> ...Reflections of the 4,000,000 Story...

You may find reflections (including mine) about this red herring of yours,
Mr. Allen, at:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/4-million-variant
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/4-million-variant-02

[snip]

> Did you notice that Nyiszli gave an approximately 4 fold exaggeration in
> the size of the Leichenkeller/gaschamber?

Indeed I did. I pointed this a while ago, sarcastically suggesting
Nyiszli's 4x error in estimating the dimensions of the L.Kellers was a
coded message in regard that the Soviet claim of 4 million killed at
Auschwitz incorrect:

Subject:      Re: Nyiszli's Memoirs of Auschwitz
From:         mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Date:         1996/07/21
Message-Id:   

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[snip]

An interesting pattern emerges it seems. Dr. Nyizsli, an intelligent man,
who seems so attentive to detail elsewhere, makes these obvious and gross
errors? _All_ of which are _exactly_ off by 4x?  Now what possibly could
explain this? 

An error in translation? Perhaps. Faulty memory? Perhaps. Simply bad with
numbers? Perhaps. 

But since Ehrlich606 is _so_ fond of bashing the Soviets in defense of the
Nazis, how about I play along? Could it be, perhaps, that these errors
were _intentional_? That Nyiszli, knowing that the Soviet death toll
estimates did not match up with his experiance at Auschwitz, sought some
way to hint such without taking any heat? 

How about picking a few _obvious_ and _verifiable_ things (such as Krema
dimensions, number of elevators, etc.) and _exaggerate_ them by _exactly_
the amount the Soviet death toll for Auschwitz was exaggerated by! What a
marvelously subtle idea! 

Oh, my. Playing such games like you do, Ehrlich606, _is_ fun! No wonder
you do it so much! 

[snip]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

As do you, it seems, Mr. Allen, also revel in playing such games as well!

> Hoess "confession" also ties in with the 4,000,000
> figure, he claimed to have killed 2,500,000 before
> he left the camp in 1944.  

That is _your_ "misinterpretation" of the facts, Mr. Allen. Again, you
myopically (and dishonestly) focus on certain details while ignoring
others. 

To whit:

"I commanded Auschwitz until 1st December 1943, and estimate that at least
2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and
burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and
disease, making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This figure represents
about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners,
the remainder having been selected and used for slave labour in the
concentration camp industries...." (Crankshaw, _Gestapo: intrument of
tyranny_, p.192-193.)

Hmm. Arguably Ho"ss meant that the 3 million figure applied to the _total_
number of victims over the _entire_ history of Auschwitz by: "...This
figure represents about 70 to 80 per cent. of all persons sent to
Auschwitz as prisoners...."  Note the "all persons sent to Auschwitz" and
_not_ persons sent to Auscwhitz until December 1, 1943.

Ho"ss simply states that he "commanded Auschwitz until 1st December 1943"
and by implication of his tenure there that he estimated that "at least
2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and
burning" etc etc. However, we _also_ know from Ho"ss's _memoirs_ that this
estimate was made by Eichmann's department towards the end of the war and
given to Ho"ss in Berlin in 1945. Furthermore, Eichmann, in his
interrogation, confirms that he gave an "apocolyptic speech" in Berlin
near the end of the war where he "wasn't looking for exact figures" when
talking about the number of Jews murdered in the Final Solution. (cf.
Lang, _Eichmann Interrogated_,  pp.109-110.) 

Why have you ignored this _other_ information, Mr. Allen? I suspect
becuase it clashes with your prejudices and threatens your dogmatic
beliefs. Or to paraphrase Denis Diderot:

You swallow greedily any lie that flatters you, but you sip only little by
little at a truth you find bitter.

> You never replied when I asked you about Olga Lengyel's story entitled
> Five Chimneys.  She has stories of ladling boiling
> human fat...

"Sometimes the ovens were so overtaxed that they could not do all the work
even on the twenty-four-hour-a-day shift. The Germans then had to burn
the  corpses in the 'death pits.' These were trenches about sixty about
sixty yards long and about four yards wide. They were provided with a
cunning system of ditches to drain off the human fat." (Lengyel, _Five
Chimneys_, p.82.) 

Is this the section you mean, Mr. Allen? If so, could you please point out
exactly where Lengyel writes about "ladling boiling human fat?" May I
point out that other sources confirm that in the incineration pits human
fat _was_ "harvested" and reused as fuel in the incineration pits? To
whit: 

"Under Moll's direction....large pits were dug in the immediate vicinity
of the gas chambers for the burning of the large number of corpses that
the crematoia could not handle. Each pit was 40 to 50 meters long, 8 m
wide, and 2 m deep. At the bottom of each pit, a chanel was dub in the
center to make possible the 'harvesting' of the fat extruded from the
burning corspes for reuse as fuel in the cremation process. At the height
of the deportations from Hungary nine such pits were in operation, in
addition to the crematoria...." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.463.)

"They [the Sonderkommando] dragged the bodies from the gas chambers,
removed the gold teeth, cut off the hair, then dragged the bodies to the
pits or to the ovens. On top of that, they had tomaintain the fires in the
pits, pour off the the accumlated fat, and poke holes into the burning
mountains of bodies, so that more oxygen could enter...." (Ho"ss, _Death
Dealer_, p.160; cf. Affidavit by Ho"ss, March 14, 1946, NO-1210.) 

> ...and using babies as kindling...

"A hoist lifted the bodies into the ovens. The corpses were sorted
methodically. The babies went in first, as kindling, then came the bodies
of the emanciated, and finally the larger bodies." (Lengyel, _Five
Chimneys_, p.88.) 

Is this the section you mean, Mr. Allen? If so, you will recal that
Lengyel stated that Sonderkommando doctor Pasche (who, being a doctor,
would not have been detailed to service the furnaces) provided her "with
the daily routine of the crematoty personnel...." (Ibid. p.87.) Lengyel
did not _directly_ witness the incineration of the victims in the furnaces
of the Kremas. Keeping this in mind, we can compare this to the
_eyewitness_ testimony of Sonderkommando Henryk Tauber:

"...We burned the bodies of the children with those of the adults. First
we put in two adults, then as many children as many children as the muffle
could contain. It was 5 or 6. We used this procedure so that the bodies of
the children would not be placed directly on the grid bars, which were
reletively far apart. IN this way we prevented the children from falling
through to the ash bin. Women's bodies burned  much better and more
quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning
badly we would introduce a women's body to accelerate the combustion."
(Pressac, _Technique_, p.495.) 

Clearly, Lengyel was only slightly mistaken. It was women, not children,
who were used as "kindling." The far more important fact remains, however:
innocent children were murdered and incinerated in droves. Yet you, Mr.
Allen, once more ignore this to myopically- and dishonestly -focus on the
relatively  unimportant minutae in an attempt to discredit survivor
testimony.

 and SHE claims 4,000,000 died at Auschwitz.

Indeed. But this yet another of your red herrings Mr. Allen. I remind you that:

"...[A]s will be readily admitted by historians and Holocaust researchers,
such estimates made by people with limited opportunity to observe the
killing process in its entirety, or no access to cumulative statistics and
accurate figures, are often prone to inaccuracies...."

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/4-million-variant-02

Morever, such inaccuracies by survivors in estimating the number of
victims murdered by no means invalidates the veracity of what they
experianced and witnessed. That you attempt to discredit Lengyel exactly
for such reasons is simply a fallacy of black and white thinking and
evidences not only your intellectual dishonesty, but your poor reasoning
skills as well. 

In sum, Mr. Allen, you are proving to be a _very_ dishonest,
intellectually lazy, and close-minded person. Unfortunately, no suprises
there either. Those seem to be rather consisted character flaws among
Holocaust deniers.  

[snip]

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:06 PST 1996
Article: 81203 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!newspump.sol.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: This war is our war . . . .
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:53:48 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
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References: <32947216.6915991@news.zippo.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32947216.6915991@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "We are not denying and we are not afraid to confess, this war
> is our war and that it  is waged for the liberation of Jewry...
> Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry.  We are
> not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war
> production is  based. We are not only providing our full propaganda
> power which is the moral energy that  keeps this war going. The
> guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy
> forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the
> resistance. And we are the Trojan Horses in the enemy's fortress.
> Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor  in
> the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most
> valuable aid for victory." 
> 
>  (Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, in a Speech
> on December 3, 1942,  in New York City).
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:06 PST 1996
Article: 81204 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Chief French Rabbi on Christians
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:55:36 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32945787.117649@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "We shall drive the Christians into war by exploiting their
> national vanity and stupidity.  They will then massacre each other,
> thus giving room for our own people." 
> 
> (Rabbi Reichorn,  in Le Contemporain, July 1st, 1880)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:07 PST 1996
Article: 81208 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Could this be true?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 08:37:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <575mk3$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <575mk3$3tn@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Mr. Blackmore, you will soon be eating crow pie.
>       -Mark van Alstine
> (When asked for copies of the forensic tests allegedly conducted 
> by or on behalf of Dr. Charles Larson)

Indeed, Mr. Belling. You will indeed. Small wonder then that you have
appeared to studiously avoid perusing the Congressoional Record for Dr.
Larson's report....

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:08 PST 1996
Article: 81214 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:05:44 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References:  <5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Mark, you silly little clown....must you still make an ass
> of yourself in front of the whole world?  Mark would like
> the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for 
> those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
> of people-his benefactors.  I have never once read of this
> man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
> or any other civilians who died during and after the second
> world war.

Probably because, Mr. Belling, the topic of alt.revision is about
Holocaust denial. If I were to go into a detailed and lenghty discussion
in regard civilain casualties incurred during World War II a more
appropriate forum would be, for example, "soc.history.war.world-war-ii."

Of course, I believe that "soc.history.war.world-war-ii" is a moderated
group, so your Nazi apologia, puerile lies, anti-Semitism, and juvenile
vulgarities would keep you from participating. Pity.

The moderators there tend to frown on such puerile and hateful nonsense.

As it stands, I sometimes briefly address such off-topic issues when
presented in this group when they are used for purposes of Nazi apologia
and Holocast denial or anti-Semitic propaganda. Typically, this means
pointing out attempts by deniers to establish moral relativism between
Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the war for the  purpose of
white-wshing Nazi atrocities and mass murder. 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:09 PST 1996
Article: 81220 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:07:54 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
> -Mark Van Alstine
> 
> Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.

Still can't find a public library, Mr. Belling? I'm not terribly suprised....

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:09 PST 1996
Article: 81226 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news00.sunet.se!sunic!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:43:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <3294adad.46489510@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56umlq$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56umlq$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
> >  In <56taum$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  >>  Erich Gnewuch testifies about gassings in Nazi-occupied USSR, 1942-3
> >  >>  [Quoted in "Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the
> >  >>  Use of Poison Gas", edited by E. Kogon, H. Langbein, and
> >  >>  A. Rueckerl, Yale University Press, 1993, p. 57-9]
> >  >>  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >  [snip]
> >  
> >  >When and where did this man give this testimony and before whom?
> >  
> >  
> >  You have the reference. Look it up.
> >  
> >  --
> >   John Morris                                
> >   at University of Alberta  
> >  -- 
> >  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
> >  
> >>>>
> Thanks for that instructive piece of advice.  Funny how I never
> thought of it.  

When one entertains the distinct possiblity that Frau"lien Schwarzesel is
an empty-headed and anti-social teenager without any morals, such advice
isn't funny at all.... (More like a _neccessity_.) 

[Frau"lien Schwarzesel's vapid and juvenile insults snipped]

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel's increasingly
irrelevent scumbag Nazi apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:10 PST 1996
Article: 81240 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jamie McCarthy shows his analytical capacities
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:52:13 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <575lpn$f25@Vir.com> <3298c57e.65647688@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298c57e.65647688@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) wrote:

[Mr. Morris's commentary about _National Enquirer_ article snipped. (It's
too hilariously _bizarre_ to be anything else!) };-> ] 

> Truly there is no stopping this juggernaut of idiocy who has found aid
> and comfort (and a web page) from David Thomas and the first-class
> minds at CODOH.

ROTFL!

Not to fear. With Mr. Beaulieu at the Helm and Mr. Thomas cheerleeding
>from  the poopdeck, something amusing is _bound_ to happen. My guess is
that Mr. Beaulieu, when he realizes that his "juggernaut of idiocy" is
running out of steam, will promptly toss a lump of coke into the boiler's
firebox, which will then immediately explode like a grenade, thus
scuttling this most impressive of denier behemoths.

Fortunately, as coke generates HCN, which is lighter than air and
therefore rises, the crew will have quickly fashioned a dirgible from the
tattered wreckage and save themselves. They will be last seen heading to
the Secret Nazi UFO Base That Leads To The Center Of The Earth Where Adolf
Is, where they can then regale their Fu"hrer with daring deeds of
confronting ZOG lackeys and making the world safe for Aryan sperm by
labeling Aryan condoms with labels that say: "THIS END UP" and "FRAGILE:
HANDLE WITH CARE," thus ensuring at least one more generation of white
trailer-trash will not be inadvertantly flushed from the human gene pool.

Of course, the Fu"hrer rather than facing the prospect of being  regaled
by Mr.Beaulieu and Mr. Thomas for the next twenty years ort so, may simply
have them shot, considering it a justifiable homicide for reasons of
(mental) state. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:11 PST 1996
Article: 81248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:19:51 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 101
Message-ID: 
References:  <5769ch$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5769ch$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:>  In article
<5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>, 
> rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>   
>    Mark, you silly little clown....must you still make an ass
>    of yourself in front of the whole world?  Mark would like
>    the world to forget all the crimes of the world except for 
>    those allegedly committed by the Nazis against one group
>    of people-his benefactors.  I have never once read of this
>    man having a word of compassion for the millions of German
>    or any other civilians who died during and after the second
>    world war.
>   
>   Probably because, Mr. Belling, the topic of alt.revision is about
>   Holocaust denial.
> 
> 
> Oh?  And "Holocaust" can only refer to Jews?  Is that what you
> are telling us?

Actually, that is what _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College
Edition) tells us: 

"2 great or total destruction of life, esp. by fire [nuclear _holocaust_]
-*the Holocaust [also the h-] the systematic destruction of over six
million European Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II."

Personally, I'm a bit more inclusive, considering the Holocaust [note the
capital "H"] to include the murder of about 6 million gentiles- by the
Nazis -as well. However, I'm afraid, Mr. Belling, that my _or_ Webster's
definition of the Holocaust does _not_ include the German civilian
casualties incurred from the Allied strategic bombing campaign. 

So please be so kind as to wave your smelly red herring elsewhere.

>  If I were to go into a detailed and lenghty discussion
> >  in regard civilain casualties incurred during World War II a more
> >  appropriate forum would be, for example, "soc.history.war.world-war-ii."
> >  
> >  Of course, I believe that "soc.history.war.world-war-ii" is a moderated
> >  group, so your Nazi apologia, puerile lies, anti-Semitism, and juvenile
> >  vulgarities would keep you from participating. Pity.
> 
> On the contrary.  I have no doubt that many of my comments would be
> most welcome.  

Then please go right ahead and post them there. Amuse me. 

> BTW, what do you regard as "anti-Semitic" on my part?
> Would you mind posting it?
> >  
> >  The moderators there tend to frown on such puerile and hateful nonsense.
> 
> Is that why they never post here?

Why don't _you_ ask _them_? 

> >  As it stands, I sometimes briefly address such off-topic issues when
> >  presented in this group when they are used for purposes of Nazi apologia
> >  and Holocast denial or anti-Semitic propaganda. Typically, this means
> >  pointing out attempts by deniers to establish moral relativism between
> >  Nazi genocide and the Allied prosecution of the war for the  purpose of
> >  white-wshing Nazi atrocities and mass murder. 
> 
> There certainly is a moral relativism, whether you like to admit it or not.

Then please feel free to demonstrate such. And please try not to appeal to
your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of "Because I Say So" by no
means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor. 

> However, your refusal to admit simply shows your own prejudice.  it does not
> go unnoticed.

Really? Mr. Belling, simply because I do not share your Nazi fantasy about
the bombing of Dresden by no means implies I choose not to out of
prejudice. Nor does it mean that your Nazi fantasy about the bombing of
Dresden is morally equivalent to the Nazi mass murder of the European
Jews. 

Again, please feel free to demonstrate otherwise. Amuse me. And please try
not to appeal to your ersatz authority. Your boorish repitions of "Because
I Say So" by no means makes it so. It simply makes you a monumental boor. 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:11 PST 1996
Article: 81253 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Ordinary Jews: Zionism's Willing Torturers'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:12:19 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References: <3298cf04.4166720@199.0.216.204> <329a7cfd.2321020@199.0.216.204> <56ss8f$qle@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <3295ba06.721220@199.0.216.204> <575crf$o9u@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <575crf$o9u@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU>, rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU
(Richard J. Green) wrote:

> In article <3295ba06.721220@199.0.216.204>,
> tom moran  wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >       When you say "bash-Jews ..." are you complaining everything said
> >is a lie, or are you admitting about truths not being relevant?
> 
> I can't parse this question.

Don't worry, neither can the Moran(tm) -it's Moranic(tm)!

Hmm. Sounds like the Moran (tm) is asking that if he were to say "cashews"
that would he actually be claiming that Sadi, the Persian poet, is a liar
and that this is not in any way relevant to some person name T. Ruth being
admitted to wherever T. Ruth was admitted to?


The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:12 PST 1996
Article: 81254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Israeli Court Values Palestinian Life at One-Third of a Cent
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 20:50:24 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <19961119192600.OAA28167@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32941585.440882@199.0.216.204>  <3293f02a.245526725@news.micron.net> <32956ef6.932187@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32956ef6.932187@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> All the ego statements, racist ravings and such by Jews today can
> be traced back to the "Old Testiment". Perhaps hundreds of examples
> exist in the writings.

And how far back can the "perhaps hundreds of examples" of Moran's "ego
statements, racist ravings and such" be traced? 

To find out, just visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:13 PST 1996
Article: 81263 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.dra.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:17:03 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 345
Message-ID: 
References:  <576924$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <576924$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <5758ge$igq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  > >   Chuck Ferree  writes:
> >  > >  Chuck Ferree wrote:
> >  > >  
> >  > >  Speaking only for myself the answer to the question is not really!!!
> >  > >  
> >  > >  Chuck
> >  > >  
> >  > >  
> >  > >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  > >  
> >  > >  clips
> >  > >  > 
> >  > >  
> >  > >    What I am trying to do is see if
> >  > >  > any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> >  > >  > Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
> >  > >  > enough?
> >  > >  
> >  > >  
> >  > >  Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
> >  > >  not happen to the Germans.
> 
> And what was that specifically, pray tell?

Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.

> >  > >  What happened to the Germans was as I seem 
> >  > >  to recall: they started something they couldn't finish, and got their 
> >  > >  collective asses kicked.
> 
> Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
> the Jews.

Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

> >  > >  Whereas, the Jews were set up by the Germans 
> >  > >  to be murdered by the millions. That's what happened to the Jews. 
> >  > >  Murdered by the Millions. Nazis done it.
> 
> Simply because Chuck says it.  

Er, no. The Holocaust did not happen _because_ Mr. Ferree says it did.
That is simply _you're_ being disingenous and putting words into his
mouth. Mr. Ferree, if I my be so bold, has said the Holocaust happened
because the historical evidence indicates that it happened. It just so
happens that Mr. Ferree happened to see some of that evidence firsthand. 

> Remind me to call on your humble services when the present Pope dies. 
> It seems we have two infallible people in this world:  The Pope and the 
> Anti-Pope.

Ah, when all else fails, Mr. Belling, resorts to ad hominems. (Also a not
uncommon occurrance, btw.) 

> >  > >  BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities 
> >  > > in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
> 
> The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
> survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?

Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
them? 

>  Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
>  civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
>  yep-pure military targets all right.
>   
> >  The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
> >  Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
> >  ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)
> 
> Well, you are in error on dresden.  

Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
amusing! Sherry's _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.) 

> The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest 
> estimates as well as estimates at the time.

_Who's_ "latest" estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum's,
that's for sure! As for "estimates at the time," the Nazis origionally
claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
Communists claimed 350,000.

Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered propaganda. 

http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001

> >  But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
> >  attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
> >  tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
> 
> No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  These 
> are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
> arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.

I'm afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the Axis. 

According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):

"...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
(Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
(Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 

I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 

> >  In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
> >  unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,
> 
> Why don't you tell us more about Poland... 

[Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi apologia snipped]

 

More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn't even have the class to
declare war on Poland first. 

> >  the Anglo-American bombing
> >  against Germany, caused between 300,000 and 600,000 deaths. (cf. Ibid.)
> >  The Nazi Final Solution to the Jewish Question took 12,000,000 lives. 
> 
> Are you saying that 12,000,000 Jews were killed?  

Oh, no, Mr. Belling, surely I'm not! 

> If not, then don't include 6 million more.  

Why not, Mr. Belling? Six million gentiles died at the hands of the Nazis,
just like aproxinately 6 million Jews did. Or do _you_ think the Holocaust
is only about Jews? 

> You have trouble enough proving 6 million Jews died, much less 6 million 
> more.

Er, no. I have no trouble at all in proving such, Mr. Belling, as the
historical record shows that approximately twelve million innocents died
brutally at the hands of the Nazis. In technical terms, Mr. Belling, the
assertion that 12 million people died in the Holocaust is the "null
hypothesis," As it is _accepted_ by historians as valid. If _you_ claim
that 12 milliom people did _not_ die in the Holocaust, then _you_ must
prove so. (Of course, you seem to have a little _problem_ with the concept
of _proof_....) 

> >  Furthermore, as to the above mentioned cities being "pure military
> >  targets," that is _not_ what Mr. Ferree wrote. It _is_, however, a
> >  typically dishonest  distortion by Mr. Belling.
> 
> The only people who seem to distort issues around here is Nizkor devotees.

Er, no, Mr. Belling. Symantically speaking, "legitimate military target"
is by no means the equivalent to "pure military targets." Nor, militarily
speaking, is it the same. A legitimate military target, for example, could
be a city with a rail nexus supporting military operations. Or a city that
has war production industries. Dresden qualified on both accounts. A
_purely_ military target, for example, would be military units in the
field. 

> >  Mr. Ferree, as can readily
> >  seen above in his origional post, wrote that the above mentioned cities
> >  were "legitimate military target[s]." 
> 
> This was not the case....  

Or you suggesting, Mr. Bellinger, that Dresden was _not_ a rail nexus used
to support military operation and that it did _not_ have war production
industries? Please, feel free to offer detailed evidence that this was
indeed the case. Amuse me.  

> You ought to read the comments of British Air Marshall "Bomber Harris" 
> before you write things which will inevitably be corrected.

I have read comments by Air Marshal Harris, Mr. Belling. I have also read
comments by Sherry on Air Marshal Harris: "...Harris, who at least had the
virtue of an ugly honesty rare in high circles, was closer to the mark in
his memoirs, when he referred to the 'destruction of factories' as only 'a
bonus.' (Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.154.) 

I have also, Mr. Belling, read comments by Sherry and others on the Allied
strategic bombing campaign against Germany. To sum them up, Mr. Belling,
you're a joke, and your Nazi apologia in regard to Dresden a farce. 

The salient facts remain, however: Dresden was bombed to hurt German
morale, to disrupt German rail transport to aid the advancing Red Army,
and to burden German production and infrastructure with refugees to take
care of. Such was total war, Mr. Belling. It was ugly and brutal and
merciless. 

> >  In the specific case of Dresden, however, it was not because of its
> >  (marginal) war industries, which were not targeted, that it was bombed.
> >  Rather, it was bombed for the purpose of undermining "German morale, plus
> >  assisting the Soviet advance westward by disrupting German rail transport
> >  and fouling it with refugees." (Ibid.) 
> 
> Oh-so the way to "defoul the refugees" was to burn them alive?  

"Defoul the refugees," Mr. Belling? What does that mean? To take away
their poultry and burn the poor birds alive? I do believe such activties
would be frowned on by the SPCA....

> Is that it? Is this what you are offering us?  Undermine "German morale"?  
> By burning alive 135,000 men, women and children?  How quaint.....

No, Mr. Belling, how brutal and terribly destructive. Air power at the
time was a blunt instrument. A sledgehammer. Not a scalpel. There were no
"smart" bombs and cruise missle that could fly through windows. Just
thousand bomber raids that bombed cities to "dehouse" the inhabitants and
"pin point" bombing that considered it good bombing to put a paylod within
a quarter mile of the target. 

And all because Hitler chose to wage a war of aggression to satisfy his
lust for revenge; his xenophobia; and his puerile rationalization about
"Lebensraum."  

> >  In considering all the above, however, it is best kept well in mind that
> >  since the end of World War II the Allied strategic bombing campaign has
> >  been used time and time again by Nazi apologists and Holocaust deniers
> >  (e.g. Bardeche) as propaganda to gain sympathy for the Nazis.
> 
> And rightfully so.  

Ah, I'm glad to see that you've finally admitted that your are a Nazi
apologist, Mr. Belling. Acknowledging one's problem is the first step
towrds recovery, I'm told. 

> If it were not an issue, then it would not be used so often.

And if were not an issue then Nazi apologist would _make_ it an issue.
They _did_  make it an issue in fact. They still do, the tired ols saw
that it is. You're proof of that. 

> Don't you think it is about time to begin admitting the crimes of the 
> allies?  

What crimes are those, Mr. Belling? The "crime" of destroying Nazism? 

> No, you will never do so, because when and if you do, that would
compromise your "special" status for the Jewish victims. 

What "special status" is this, Mr. Belling? The status of having been
murdered by the Nazis? If so, it is a "status" Jews share with far more
Poles and Russians. 

> All victims would then be equal and equally deserving of our compassion and 
> sympathy, and, of course, that is something you simply can not afford.

Really? And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your
insane Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly.... 

> >  It is not a new phenomenna. Their motives for this are clear: To 
> >  establish an (ersatz) moral relativism between Nazi genocide and the 
> >  Allied prosecution of the war against Germany.
> 
> And there certainly is a moral relativism, though you fail to admit it.

Feel free to jump on up your soap box and spout your Nazi propag..., er,
demonstrate your claims of moral relativism, Mr. Belling. However, I
suggest it be a _low_ soap box. That way, when you take the inevitable
pratfall, it won't hurt so bad....

> Of course you see it, but you are a moral coward and will NOT admit 
> what you know to be a true fact.

I'm now a "moral coward" This from a person who is so craven he hides
behind a handle? (Pretending he's a thirteen year-old _girl_!?) Really?
And why do you suggest this? Because I refuse to kowtow to your insane
Nazi fantasies and lies, apparantly?  

ROTFLMAO!

 

You're such a pathetic Nazi clown, Mr. Belling! A laugh a minute you are!  

> >  Without such white-washing of Nazi crimes the
> >  deniers' Nazi apologia rings all too hollow; and their agenda of morally
> >  diminishing the heinous crime of the Holocuast is doomed.
> 
> On the contrary. It is portending the inevitable doom of your Holocaust
> tales.

Deluded too....

> >  Mr. Belling is simply following a well-trod, if irrational and
> >  hate-filled, path into intellectual and moral oblivion. 
> 
> There is no hate on my part.  

Suuuure there's not. Uh huh. And bears don't shit in the woods. 

> I am not affiliated with any so-called hate group... 

Really? Prove it. 

> ...and I number people of all creeds and races among my
> most intimate friends and acquaintances.

Really? Prove it.  

> You are not speaking to another Butler or Bob Matthews here.

No, probably not. You're too much of a belly-crawling coward to stomach
_their_ degree of hatred and violence. You might not even be as insane. 

> >  For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
> >  Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
> 
> Please do visit, but I recommend reviewing my comments on Deja News
> as they are not biased.

Suuuure they're not. Uh huh. And Hitler was Jewish too. 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:14 PST 1996
Article: 81268 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:27:31 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 80
Message-ID: 
References:  <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>   In article <575nfc$4lu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>   
>    One day soon blackmore will eat crow pie.
>    -Mark Van Alstine
>    
>    Well, I'm still waiting for you to serve it up, Mark.
> 
>   Still can't find a public library, Mr. Belling? I'm not terribly
suprised....
>   
>   "The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
>   state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
>   and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
>   world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
>   world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
>   Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
>   the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
>   it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
>   history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
>   Taylor 
> 
> Then why doesn't he practice what he preaches?

He did. And that's what evidently puts a twist in your knickers. He helped
get your Nazi heroes to swing at the end of a rope. 

>   For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
>   Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:
>   
>   http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
> >  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
> >  http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096
> 
> Yes, please do visit.  All are welcome.  However, I prefer that my writings be
> accessed through Deja News.  They are not biased.

No, DejaNews is certainly not biased. You come off as the same Nazi clown
when your Nazi apologia and lies are read from DejaNews as when the are
read from Nizkor. (Small wonder since the posts are the same....) 

> Actually, I believe you are quoting from the wrong Taylor....  

Nope. 

[Mr. Belling's Nazi jingoism snipped] 

> ...As far as a public library, the one I have at home is absolutley perfect 
> for my needs.  

You have a _public_ library at home? Amazing. 

> Remember, I own approximately 40-65,000 books, which your buddies 
> exaggerated and distorted to 165,000, as is their usual way. 

Given your sustained ignorance, Mr. Belling, they are apparantly _comic_ 
books! 

All 45 of them. 


For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:14 PST 1996
Article: 81270 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Numero Uno Witness - Torture/Confession/Admissions
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:44:54 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References: <329d92a7.7867237@199.0.216.204>  <3291cb05.261388@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3291cb05.261388@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>         I see there were three responses to my first version in the
> thread before I posted a new improved version. Seeing how it was so
> miscombulated, I'm wondering how they even came to make a comment
> about "defense" and "sources". I mean when I read it later, I couldn't
> even make anything out of it.

Simply said, "we" have had plenty of practice "recombobulating" the
Moran's (tm) "miscombulated" drivel and pointing out his lies and
stupidities therein. 

> Thanks to Mr.VanAlstine though, for his contribution of some of
> Mr.Ho'ss' diary. 

My pleasure. Really. I enjoy pointing out the Moran's (tm) lies and
stupidities. 

Too bad, though, that the Moran (tm), as usual, has nothing of substance
to say about it. Typical denier. (I'd say tupical stupid lying denier, but
that's be an oxymoron. [Oxymoran?]) 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped] 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:15 PST 1996
Article: 81274 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:36:19 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <576a7h$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <576a7h$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> 

[snip]

> >  You're a stupid, senile Nazi drunkard, admirer of Nazis who
> >  killed American POW's in cold blood.
> 
> Oh-since when are you so concerned about American POW's?
> Thousands of Germans were killed in cold blood as well.  Why don't
> you look up those 90,000 German soldiers taken prisoner at Stalingrad
> and who never returned home.  I am sure their families would love to
> see them again.

Indeed. I'm sure they would love to see them about as much as the families
of the 3,000,000 Soviet POWs who died in German captivity would love to
see _their_ loved ones....

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:16 PST 1996
Article: 81275 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 15:49:47 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <5758pb$igq@juliana.sprynet.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

[snip]

> You might, given that you are a revisionist, choose to demonstrate your
> foundation for believing that the Holocaust did not hapen, in the face of
> overwhelming evidence. You must have a reason for believing that the
> Holocaust is a hoax. Explain that belief.

Poor potty training? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:17 PST 1996
Article: 81278 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Keitel's connfession of guilt and hope
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 20:30:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

"Now, at the end of this Trial I want to present equally frankly the
avowel and confession I have to make today.

"In the course of the trial my defense counsel submitted two fundemental
questions to me, the first one... was: 'In case of a victory, would you
have refused to particpate in any part of the success?' I answered: 'No, I
should certaihnly have been proud of it.'

"The second question was: 'How would you act if you were in the same
position again?' My answer: 'Then I should rather choose death than to let
myself be drawn into a net of such pernicious methods.'

"From these two answers the High Tribunal may see my viewpoint. I
believed, but I erred, and I was not in a position to prevent what ought
to have been prevented. That is my guilt.

"It is tragic to have realized that the best I had to give as a soldier,
obediance and loyalty, was exploiyed for purposes that could not be
recognoized at the time, and that I did not see that there is a limit even
for a soldier's performance of his duty. That is my fate.

"From the clear recognition of the causes, the pernicious methods, and the
terrible consequences of this war, may there arise the hope for a new
future in the community of nations for the German people. 

-Generalfeldmarchall Wilhelm Keitel, Chef OKW; August 15, 1946, Nuremburg.
(Sentenced to death by the International Military Tribunal and hanged,
1946.) 

(Taylor, _The Anatomy of the Nuremeburg Trials_, pp.537-538.)


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:17 PST 1996
Article: 81329 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!news.stealth.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Responsibility for WW I
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:56:05 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <32970d9e.123361@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32970d9e.123361@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "The responsibility for the last World War [WW I] rests solely
> upon the shoulders of  the international financiers. It is upon them
> that rests the blood of millions of dead and millions  of dying."
> 
> (Congressional Record, 67th Congress, 4th Session, Senate Document No.
> 346)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:18 PST 1996
Article: 81330 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:52:25 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: <3295ae53.46655259@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56up67$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56up67$lbf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   John.Morris@UAlberta.CA (John Morris) writes:
> >  In <56tem7$fvh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >>   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  >>  SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz: 
> >  >>  [Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The 
> >  >>  Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
> >  >>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >  [snip]
> >  
> >  >This account, if true, makes me wonder what other horrors Kremer
> >  >may or may not have witnessed during the war, such as the bodies 
> >  >of german women and children, melted by by intensity of the firebombs
> >  >which rained down upon the defenseless city of Dresden.  I have seen
> >  >these photos, and I cannot imagine anything more horrific.  Death by
> >  >gas would have been merciful in comparison.  Indeed, the allies had used
> >  >and initiated the use of gas during the first world war.
> >  
> >  
> >  So what's your point? That if Dresden was horrible the Nazis couldn't
> >  have killed any Jews?
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  --
> >   John Morris                                
> >   at University of Alberta  
> >  -- 
> >  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
> >  
> >>>>
> Are you asking me or telling me?  What I am trying to do is see if
> any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
> Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
> enough?

Does Frau"lien Schwarzesel have the same concern over what happened to the
English, Soviets, and Poles, for example, as compared with what happened
to the Germans?

So far it appears not. Instead, it appears that Frau"lien Schwarzesel has
a pathological need to deny the Holocaust and white-wash the Nazi genocide
of European Jewry. 

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:19 PST 1996
Article: 81343 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Himmler Talks About the Jews, II
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 21:54:21 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tpre$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tpre$lko@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Speech by Reichsfuehrer-SS Himmler at Kharkow, April 1943
> >  [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. 
> >  Off., 1946, Vol. IV, p. 572-574]
> >  ----------------------------------------------------------
> >  We have - I would say, as very consistent National Socialists,
> >  taken the question of blood as our starting point. We were the
> >  first really to solve the problem of blood by action, and in
> >  this connection, by problem of blood, we of course do not
> >  mean antisemitism. Antisemitism is exactly the same as delousing.
> >  Getting rid of lice is not a question of ideology. It is a 
> >  matter of cleanliness.
> >   
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> And this proves what?

That Frau"lien Schwarzesel cannot see the obvious. Why am I not surpised? 

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:20 PST 1996
Article: 81394 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mass Murder in Belsen Camp, I
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 03:47:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 110
Message-ID: 
References:  <577ik8$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <577ik8$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:


> 1.  The SS women appear healthy because they were.  They
> were principally employed as administrative staff and had little
> or nothing to do with the inmates.  

Indeed. They weren't forced to live in the same putrid squalor and
inhumane provation that the Nazis _forced_ their prisoners to live in. Not
living in such conditions as the inmates lived in is sure to be a boon to
one's health....

> That they aren't emaciated is due to the fact that they were fortunate not to 
> have contracted any of the life threatening illnesses brought into the camp by
> the inmates during the final weeks of the war.

Indeed. The SS personnel was indeed fortunate that they didn't "contract"
the life-thratening "disease" called _starvation_. Of course, that's
probably because _they_ had a plentiful supply oif food on hand. The
prisoners had no such luck, as these very same svelt and well-fed SS
personnel, made sure the inmates starved to death in droves by denying
them even the minimal diet required to maintain any semblance of good
health. 

Coupled with the dismal hygenic conditions inflictyed on the prioners by
the Nazis, it is small wonder that disease, such as typhus, swept through
camp and claimed thousands of lives. 

> It should be noted that in camp 2, where the original inmates in the
> camp were housed, the people were in relatively good health, which can be
> seen and verified by viewing films from the period.  

If Mr. Belling is talking about Prisoner Camp II, as illustrated on page
186 of the _Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, I would point out the
following:

"2. The 'Special camp" (_Sonderlager_). In mid-June 1943, two transports
of Jews from Poland (mainly from Warsaw, Lvov, and Krakow), totalling
2,400 persons, were taken to theis camp; these were Jews, who had papers
(_promesas) in their possession, issued by various countries. IN late
OCtober 1943, 1,7000 of these Jews were deported to AUSCHWITZ, where they
were all immediately killed. Another 350 suffered the same fate in early
1944. This left 350 detaines in the camp, of whom 266 were in possesion of
immigration papers to Palestine, 34 were United States citizens, and 50
had South Americam papers. These prisoners were not assinged to work
teams, and no contact was permitted between them and other groups of
Bergeb-Bellsen prisoners."

So, out of the 2,400 "original inmates," 2,050 were sent to Auschwitz and
murdered, leaving just a handful who were exempted from work and _kept_
away from the influx of some 20,000 sick women prisoners who managed to
survive the death marches from Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Gross-Rosen and
their sattelite camps. 

Why did Mr. Belling overlook this important bit of information? Could it
be because it contradicts the rosy picture he is trying to paint that
portrays  his Nazi heroes as victims of circumstances beyond their
control? Circumstances that has has blamed on the Allied prosecution of
the war against Germany? 

Does a bear shit in the woods? 

> This proves that the 
> illness were carried into the camp by the tens of thousands who were 
> transferred there in the course of the last three months of the war.

And where did these "tens of thousands" of transferees, who where deathly
ill come from? Why, they were prisoners (mostly women) who managed to
survive the death marches from Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Gross-Rosen and
their sattelite camps.

Camps the Nazis administered as well.

> Mr. Keren would love to
> have photos of these same SS women in an emaciated condition adorning
> his massive photo collection, pasted on his wall next to his playboy
> photos.

And Mr. Belling pretends he is a 13 year-old female Naziphile because it
sexually arouses him. Considering his obvious hero worship FOR DEAD NAZIS,
Next we'll probably learn he into necrophillia as well....

(Isn't the ad hominem game a blast?!)  

> 2.  Kramer was commander of the camp for only 3 MONTHS....

During which time some 20,000 sick women who managed to survive the death
marches from Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Gross-Rosen and their sattelite camps
arrived. And Kramer didn't lift a finger to help them. So they had no
housing, went without water and food. Small wonder thyphus broke and
decimated their ranks. Kramer made sure they had one foot in the grave. 

[Mr. Bellings shrill Nazi apologia of his Nazi hero snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:20 PST 1996
Article: 81410 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jewish author on Germany
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:42:09 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <577hbj$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <577hbj$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
>   In article <5767am$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>   
> >  You have a _public_ library at home? Amazing. 
> 
> Darn.  You outwitted me again!

Not all that terribly hard to do, Mr. Belling. You had disadvantages.

Hannibal Lecter: How did you catch me, Will?

Will: You had disadvantages.

Hannibal Lecter: What disadvantages?

WIll: You're insane.
 
      -Manhunter

[snip]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmo

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:21 PST 1996
Article: 81428 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It's a sad fact
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 05:15:15 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:

> Leon Wieseltier, the literary editor of The New Republic, writing in its
> May 3, 1993, issue [p. 20], wrote:
> 
> "'It's a sad fact," said the principal philanthropist of the grotesque
> Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, 'that Israel and Jewish education
> and all the other familiar buzzwords no longer seem to rally Jews behind
> the community. The Holocaust, though, works every time.' His candour was
> refreshing, even if it was obscene. On the subject of the extermination of
> the Jews of Europe, the Jews of America are altogether too noisy."
> 
> _____________________________________________________________________________


"It is to attempt seeing Truth without knowing Falsehood. 
 It is the attempt to see the Light without knowing Darkness. 
 It cannot be."

             - Frank Herbert, Dune 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:22 PST 1996
Article: 81436 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:36:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References:  <577gtq$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <577gtq$idq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
> >  wrote:
> >  
> >  > rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  > 
> >  > # Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
> >  > # whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
> >  > # continuous insults.
> >  > 
> >  > No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.
> >  > 
> >  > First, I am not "whining and crying". I brought up Giwer's
> >  > death threats against me, since he made them only
> >  > because my opinion on a certain historical event is
> >  > different from his.
> >  > 
> >  > This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
> >  > "revisionists", claims to support freedom of speech...
> >  > 
> >  > # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
> >  > # ready to strike,
> >  > 
> >  > You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
> >  > He, at least, had the excuse: "I was brought up in a
> >  > society which made me like this". You don't have such an
> >  > excuse.
> >  
> >  Perhaps Mr. Belling can plead that he is mentally incompetant? It's a
> >  compelling argument in many respects....
> 
> That's "incompetent" Mark.  And if that is your excuse, I guess I can
> resort to it as well.

Ah, Mr. Belling, you don't _need_ an excuse to claim you're an
incompetent. You demonstrate such every day. 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:23 PST 1996
Article: 81437 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp'
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 23:44:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tbbt$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <56tbbt$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Well, this is curious in itself, as most of the Jews were allegedly killed
> at Auschwitz, not Belzec.  It makes me question his source.  At any rate,
> this is second had information.

The only curiosity here is Frau"lien Schwarzesel and her rampant
ignorance. (But then, what can one _really_ expect from a juvenile
denier?) 

If  Frau"lien Schwarzesel wasn't so obviously blinded by her prejudices,
she could have easily found out that the number of Jews killed in the
Reinhard camps  (~1.7-2 million) million) was more than the the number of
Jews killed at Auschwitz (~1.1-1.5 million).  (cf. Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor,
Trebklinka_; Gutman, _Anatomy_.)  

[Frau"lien Schwarzesel's juvenile Holocaust denial snipped]

For those interested in proof of Frau"lien Schwarzesel scumbag Nazi
apologia and lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:23 PST 1996
Article: 81444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!nntp-oslo.UNINETT.no!nntp-trd.UNINETT.no!nntp.uio.no!sn.no!news.good.net!news.good.net!news.magicnet.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'I only gassed them'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:19:47 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References:  <56taum$9t6@juliana.sprynet.com>  <32941bbb.256681350@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32941bbb.256681350@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 02:38:27 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Or could it be that Frau"lien Schwarzesel was simply being a juvenile
> >deliquent and lying about such things? Could it be that Frau"lien
> >Schwarzesel _hasn't_ the slightest clue as to what she posts? Could it be
> >that Frau"lien Schwarzesel is nothing more than a vaccuous teenage puppet
> >whose strings are pulled by others? 
> 
> Could it be that Van Smellstein is another Nizkook slimeball with
> historical pretensions?   

Could it be that Mr. Smith hass pretensions of being a mass murderer like
his Nazi heroes were? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:24 PST 1996
Article: 81605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:37:57 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References: <55vq3q$7ir@panix2.panix.com> <847587955.17669.0@perdrix.demon.co.uk> <7T9xRBAru6hyEwfJ@bebbo.demon.co.uk> <56hb0v$hqb@news3.gte.net>  <328e61b9.86445468@news.gte.net>  <328fe88c.56686554@news.gte.net> <7z9xZJA+sKkyEw1x@bebbo.demon.co.uk> <32910fbb.9987122@news.gte.net>  <329276d4.1453370@news.gte.net> <56u6lt$j08@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <3292f1d5.32941708@news.gte.net> <56vbia$rf0@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <3293d8a1.239500144@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293d8a1.239500144@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On 20 Nov 1996 16:27:54 GMT, schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard
> Schultz) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >So my challenge remains:  either provide an example of a lie about chemistry
> >that I have posted to Usenet, or withdraw your libellous claim.
> 
> Go to hell lying holohugger shit.  You lend your chemistry degree to
> give versimilitude to a hoax?  You are a disgrace to science and all
> multi-celled animals.
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:25 PST 1996
Article: 81615 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'the motor was then switched on by Gotringer'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:55:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tk0v$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <32965ff9.66428812@news.txdirect.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32965ff9.66428812@news.txdirect.net>, hmazal@txdirect.net
(Harry W. Mazal OBE) wrote:

[snip]

> The best proof that _anything_  that Dr. Keren posts is true  is that
> Mr. Blackmore denies it.
> 
> Since his unfortunate return to this newsgroup we have been regaled
> with countless one-liners.  His 145,000  book library must have
> vanished like a thief in the night!

Or perhaps is because Mr. Belling's "library" consists of _comic_ book?
That might help explain his "countless one-liners." One is what one
reads....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:25 PST 1996
Article: 81634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:00:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
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NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <57755a$3nn@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

[snip]

>   By the way Mr Van Alstine, will you accuse also Filip Muller to
>  have deliberatelly misrepresent the introduction devices as solid
>  concrete pillars with the same frenesy you did when it was me?
>  It's at the end of the third cassette of shoah, his voice, and the
>  english translation is given.

Well, Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid I don't believe a word you wrote. You see,
I happen to have the transcript to _Shoah_ and nowhere in it can I find
where Fillip Mu"ller says what you claim he says. 

So, in the interest of fairness, and before I call you an incompetant
lair, could you please post a brief verbatim transcript of what you claim
Filip Mu"ller says? Perhaps then I will have better luck in locating it.

That is, of course, unless you _are_ an incompetant liar.


For those interested in Mr. Beaulieu's prolific Holocaust denial and
crackpot "theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/beaulieu-misrepresents-hoess
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/shoah-suchomel-faked.01


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 81646 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: agressive
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 17:58:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References:  <574qe4$6i1@juliana.sprynet.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> 
> # Listen to poor Danny Keren, who whines and cries like a
> # whimpering infant when people get pissed off at his
> # continuous insults.
> 
> No, no, nazi-boy. You have, again, failed to see the point.
> 
> First, I am not "whining and crying". I brought up Giwer's
> death threats against me, since he made them only
> because my opinion on a certain historical event is
> different from his.
> 
> This is especially fascinating because Giwer, like other
> "revisionists", claims to support freedom of speech...
> 
> # You deserve all the sympathy of a rattlesnake poised and
> # ready to strike,
> 
> You deserve less sympathy than every member of the SS.
> He, at least, had the excuse: "I was brought up in a
> society which made me like this". You don't have such an
> excuse.

Perhaps Mr. Belling can plead that he is mentally incompetant? It's a
compelling argument in many respects....

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:27 PST 1996
Article: 81702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 13:34:44 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961120055600.AAA10637@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3293c93f.235561585@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3293c93f.235561585@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Shhh!   We daren't disturb the vivid fantasies of the demented Nizkook
> Van Smellstein as he continues his apoplectic descent into mental
> dissolution, his moral one already consummate, as he wallows in the
> stagnant backwater of every ridiculous tale ever devised by any
> Holofraud witness, no matter how patently absurd.
> 

[snip]



"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:28 PST 1996
Article: 81759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 1996 04:34:18 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 211
Message-ID: 
References:  <577npn$ohf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <577npn$ohf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[Mr. Belling, if you could be so kind, please show a bit more competance
when replying to posts. You have become egregiously sloppy about keeping
the attribution to what people say in proper order. This makes reading
your spastic Nazi drivel all the more difficult.] 

>    mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:  
>   
>   rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
>     What I am trying to do is see if
>  any of you have the same concern over what happened to the
>  Germans as compared with what happened to the Jews.  Simple
>  enough?
> 
>   
>   Quite simple enough...the same thing that happened to the Jews, did 
>   not happen to the Germans.
> 
> And what was that specifically, pray tell?
> 
>   Well, for a start, some three million "Aryan" German civilians weren't
>   deported to Nazi extermination camps and murdered with poison gas.
> 
>Afraid you have your facts jumbled, old chap. The fact is that millions of
>German civilians....  

Er, Mr. Belling, do you have a reading comprehension problem? Sure seems
like it. Must be from those comic books you call a library. Too many
pictures and not enough big words.

[Mr. Belling's smelly dead fish snipped]

>  Oh, I see. In other words this is the same thing the Nazis said about
>  the Jews.
>   
>   Care to expand on that a bit more, Mr. Belling? As it stands you're words
>   don't make much sense. (A not uncommon occurrance, btw.) 
> 
> I thought it was simple enough for you to understand:  The Nazis claimed it 
> was the Jews who were responsible for the war, and that was why the Jews were 
> "getting their asses kicked" in the Soviet Union.  Capisce?

And how were the Jews responsible for a war started by Nazi Germany, Mr.
Belling? 

[Mr. Belling's ad hominem drooling snipped]

>  BTW...Dresden was a legitimate military target, as were the cities 
>  in Japan, Tokyo, and the two what got the big boom.
> 
>  The big boom.  How aptly put.  Why don't you go tell the 
>  survivors of Hiroshima that they got the big boom?
>   
>   Why? Are you perhaps, Mr. Belling, under the impression that the survivors
>   of the atomic bombings are unaware that that atomic bombs were dropped on
>   them? 
> 
> I just think it would be a nice touch if Mr. Ferree said this to the face of a
> disfigured survivor, preferably a fragile and aging old woman, in front of
> whatever family she has left.

I see. But then you glorify dead Nazis and defend their mass murder of
millions. Hardly suprising then that you'd like to taunt the Japanese
survivors of the atomic bombings. 

>   Right, Chuckles, thanks for your opinions.  Let's see 80,000
>   civilians at Hiroshima, 60,000 at Nagasaki, 130,000 at Dresden-
>   yep-pure military targets all right.
>    
>   The death toll at Hiroshima was ~130,000 and at Nagasaki ~35,000. (cf.
>  Costello, _The Pacifc War_, pp.592-593.) The death toll at Dresden was
>   ~35,000. (cf. Sherry, _The Rise of American Airpower_, p.260.)
>  
>  Well, you are in error on dresden.  
>   
>   Really? And your source, Mr. Belling, as to this is? (This is just _too_
>   amusing! Sherry's _The Rise of American Airpower_ won the Bankroft Prize
>   in 1988, and Mr. Belling, without a shred of evidence, says that Sherry is
>   in error! The icing on the cake, of course, is that the Dresden City
>   Museum places the death toll from between 25,000 to 35,000.) 
> 
> Listen, Mr. Marky Mark:  The 35,000 figure has long since been abandoned
for the figures released by the German authorities at the time of the
bombing.  

Really. Then why did the Dresden City Museum cite the 35,000 figure as its
official estimate as late as 1995? (To my knowledge they still do.) 

> The figure was stated publicly on National News Services at least twice
over the past 5 years.  

Dresden City Museum. 35,000. 1995.

> Believe it if you want, or don't if you don't want.  It is all the same to me.

Uh huh. 

> BTW, I already referred you to the comments made by the Senior British
Officer 
> in charge of planning the whole raid. If you choose to believ your source, go 
> ahead.  

And since when did I need your pernmision on anything, Mr. Belling of the
45 comic book library?  

> For the sake of the browsers, however, the real figure was closer to
135,000, perhaps higher.  

Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 

> There never was an  air attack so devastating or so unnecessary in the whole 
> history of modern warfare.

Oh please. Hamburg was a far worse. And all of the raids against German
cities paled against the Toyko raid. 

>  The correct figure is 135,000 and perhaps higher according to the latest 
>  estimates as well as estimates at the time.

Please cite a specific source. Or is this too embarrassing for you? 

>   _Who's_ "latest" estimates, Mr. Belling? Not the Dresden City Museum's,
>   that's for sure! As for "estimates at the time," the Nazis origionally
>   claimed 70,000 but then later claimed 250,000. After the war, the
>  Communists claimed 350,000.
>   
>  Of course, both the Nazi and Communist death tolls are considered
propaganda. 
> 
> You have been given the correct answer and the reasons for it.

No, yo have repeatedly made appeals to your non-existant authority. Sorry,
Mr. Belling, but that dog don't hunt. Please cite a specific source. Or is
this too embarrassing for you? 

>   http://search.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?places/germany/dresden/press/dresden.001
>   
>   But if Mr. Belling is somewhow trying to impress people, in some twisted
>   attempt to gain sympathy for Nazi mass murder, with shocking Axis death
>   tolls from the Allied strategic bombing campaigns, he treads on thin ice.
> 
> No, these are not "Axis" death tolls.  These are not military deaths.  

Since when did where the Axis death tolls restricted to military
casulties? Since _you_ said so? Sorry, Mr. Belling go peddle your smelly
dead fish elsewhere. 

> These are men, women and children....grandmothers, grandfathers, and babes in
>  arms, all fleeing for sanctuary.....You have your images confused.
>  
>   I'm afraid not, Mr. Belling. Germany- and its citizens -were part of the 
>   Axis. 
> 
> The "citizens" were civilians.  Your images are confused. 

Nope. I think perhaps it is _you_ who are confused. Obviusly you have
mixed up the fact that Nazis did not consider German Jews citizens of the
Reich with German nationals being members of the Axis by the fact that
Germany, their country, had treaty obligations to such.  

>   According to _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition):
>   
>   "...the Axis the countries countries aligned against the United Nations in
>   World War II: origionally applied to Nazi Germany  and Fascist Italy
>   (Rome-Berlin Axis), later extended to include Japan, etc.
>   (Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis)" 
>   
>   I mean _really_, Mr. Bellinger! Surely are so utterly  _ignorant_ of
>   history as to _seriously_ suggest that Germany was not part of the Axis?
>   Or is it that you are so blinded by your Naziphillia that you can no
>   longer seperate your Nazi fantasies from reality? 
> 
> And who classifies babes in arms as the "axis"-you?

German babes are German nationals, Mr. Belling. 

>   In the course of the war which, lest we forget, was started by Hitler's
>   unprovoked and brutal invasion of Poland,
> 
>  Why don't you tell us more about Poland... 

Why don you? No comic book on the topic? 

[Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi whining snipped]
   
>   More dead fish, Mr. Belling? Please go pedal it elsewhere. It smells. The
>   simple and irrefutable fact remains: Nazi Germany, launched a brutal
>   suprise invasion against Poland. The Nazis didn't even have the class to
>   declare war on Poland first. 
> 

[Mr. Belling's boorish Nazi whining snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 06:29:29 PST 1996
Article: 81776 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: **************** G I W E R   R U L E S  ***************************************************
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 03:21:50 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56hb04$hqb@news3.gte.net>  <328e6ae1.88789722@news.gte.net>  <328ff3f9.59257648@news.gte.net> <3290a343.362212464@news.zilker.net><32793cdd.441542@news.zippo.com> <32798fa9.24153673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <56hb04$hqb@news3.gte.net>  <328e6ae1.88789722@news.gte.net>  <328ff3f9.59257648@news.gte.net> <3290a343.362212464@news.zilker.net> <3290edcd.1858881@news.gte.net> <56u38l$1190$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <32953311.14537878@news.awinc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32953311.14537878@news.awinc.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken
Lewis) wrote:

[Mr. McFee's great flame snipped]

> Gord, I just wanted to thank you for this post (I quoted the whole damn
> thing because I felt it needed repeating for those who might have missed it
> the first time).
> 
> However, I believe it bears correction in one respect. Being impotent Matt
> cannot even do an adequate job of fucking himself.

It's not for the lack of trying though.... 

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine (tm) is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying); refused to
document claims; pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him);
engaged in actual libel; blatant and offensive anti-Semitism; Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, prolifically abused the 'Net, sent e-mailbombs,
and harrassed people via e-mail; forged posts; and has generally conducted
himself with such a complete lack of moral, intellectual, and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond to such a perverted animal.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/giwer.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/griwer.matt/1996/giwer.1096

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Nov 25 07:03:35 PST 1996
Article: 49912 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Did Hitler Commit the Unforgivable Sin?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:20:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <56pird$elr@basement.replay.com> <32917a49.37265733@news.gte.net>  <32943513.263170575@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:49912 alt.revisionism:80912

In article <32943513.263170575@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:25 PST 1996
Article: 81872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Threat from Jewish underground
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:52:33 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dfa.215306@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32970dfa.215306@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "...the [Jewish] underground will strike targets that will
> make Americans gasp." 
> 
> (Victor Vancier, Village Voice, Statements of New
> York City Jewish Defense League  Commander, April, 1986)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:26 PST 1996
Article: 81874 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!lantana.singnet.com.sg!violet.singnet.com.sg!newsvr.cyberway.com.sg!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:47:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com>   <56nppm$b9c@Vir.com> <328fef61.24450673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <570gjq$tnf@Vir.com>  <3294b580.296051635@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294b580.296051635@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> On page 79 of Gulag Two, Solzhenitzsyn gives us the photographs of the
> six top administrators of the Soviet slave-labor system [ Aaron Solts,
> Naftely Frankel, Yakov Rappaport, Matvei Berman, Lazar Kogan, Genrikh
> Yagoda] -- the only six commissars portrayed in the book.   All six
> are Jews.  
> 
> Kurt Stele
>  

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:27 PST 1996
Article: 81909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Last Call for Yale to Retract his Lies
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 05:16:29 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <329a0481.3842151@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329a0481.3842151@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Yale has persisted in the lie that the Freeman brothers of
> Pennsylvania were NA members.  
> 

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:27 PST 1996
Article: 81911 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Rates
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:15:20 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 81
Message-ID: 
References: <32898f2a.813878@199.0.216.204>  <5726t7$18r$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <3295bcb9.15949011@news.gte.net> <578tu2$fcs$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <578tu2$fcs$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au
(ibokor) wrote:

[snip]

> As has been repeatedly explained there is a number of
> reasons why it would be surprising if there weren't
> a substantial difference:
> 
> 1. the Auschwitz ovens were intended to be a mass-production
>    facility, whereas cemeteries cremate the deceased individually;
> 
> 2. the Auschwitz facilities were run continuously, without being
>    given time to return to ambient temperatures between successive
>    operations, whereas the opposite is true of cemeteries.
> 
> If that is difficult to comprehend, ask someone with a passing
> familiarity with physics or mathematics to explain that if
> you take a (cylindrical) tube of a fixed length, its surface
> area is directly proportional to its diameter, whereas its
> surface area is proportional to the square on its diameter.

For the Moranically (tm) math impaired: 

Volume of a cylinder: V = pi * r^2 * h

Area of a cylinder: A = (2 * pi * r * h) + (2 * pi * r^2) 

(cf. Washington, _Basic Technical Mathematics_ (Fourth Edition), inside
front cover) 

> This means that by doubling the diameter, the volume is
> increased by a factor of four, allowing, at least in principle
> of accommodating four bodies in lieu of only one. 

1. V = 3.1416 * 1^2 * 1 = 3.1416 * 1 * 1 = 3.1416

2. V' = 3.1416 * 2^2 * 1 = 3.1416 * 4 * 1 = 12.5644

3. A = (6.2832* 1 * 1) + (6.2832 * 1^2) = 6.2832 + 6.2832 = 12.5664

4. A' = (6.2832* 2 * 1) + (6.2832 * 2^2) = 12.5664 + 25.1328 = 37.6992


> This has vast advantages when it comes to the thermal properties of
> the process -- it is easy to maintain optimal operating
> temperature, etc.

5. A / V = 12.5664 /  3.1416 = 4.0000

6. A' / V' = 37.6992 / 12.5644 = 3.0005

As we can see, the (radiative) surface area to volume ratio _decreases_ as
the diameter of the cylinder _increases_. Thus, for instance, larger
cylinders are able to retain their internal heat longer than smaller
cylinders with the same thermal properties. 

Of course, incinerating several corpses at once instead of just one,
introduces differential thermal conditions. Four times the thermal energy
>from  the incineration of the four corspes would have been released in the
Auschwitz furnaces in the same amount of time as one corpse cremated in a
civilian crematory furnace. 

Small wonder then that the Topf furnace operating instructions said:

"After each incineration, the temperature rises in the furnace. For this
reason, care must be taken that the internal temperature does not rise
above 1100°C (white heat).

"This increase in temperature can be avoided by introducing additional
fresh air.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:28 PST 1996
Article: 81918 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Unfavorable image not allowed
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:53:47 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dea.199377@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32970dea.199377@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "You've seen every single race besmirched, but you never saw
> an unfavorable image  of a kike because the Jews are ever watchful for
> that. They never allowed it to be shown on the screen!"
> 
> (Robert Mitchum, Playboy, Jan. 1979)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:29 PST 1996
Article: 81919 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Heartening news for Jews
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:54:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dd5.178121@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32970dd5.178121@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> "The non Europeanization of America is heartening news of an
> almost transcendental  quality." 
> 
> (Ben Wattenberg, Jewish 'philosopher,'
> in The Good News, The Bad News, p. 84)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:30 PST 1996
Article: 81920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Power of political pressure
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:55:04 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dc3.160106@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32970dc3.160106@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of
> Political Pressure. We  Jews are the most powerful people on Earth,
> because we have this power, and we know how to apply it."
> 
>  (Jewish Daily Bulletin, 7/27/1935)
> 

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:31 PST 1996
Article: 81944 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Americans die for anti-Semitic Germany
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 02:05:43 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <32986a38.2223913@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32986a38.2223913@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "Whenever an American or a Filipino fell at Bataan or Corregidor or
> at any other of the  now historic spots where MacArthur's men put up
> their remarkable fight, their survivors could  have said with truth:
> 'The real reason that boy went to his death, was because Hitler's
> anti-semitic movement succeeded in Germany.'"
> 
>  (The American Hebrew, July 24, 1942).
> 

"It is to attempt seeing Truth without knowing Falsehood. It is the
attempt to see the Light without knowing Darkness. It cannot be. "

              Frank Herbert, Dune

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:31 PST 1996
Article: 81948 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!newsfeed.luth.se!news.luth.se!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!sunic!02-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Henry Ford on Jews
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 02:53:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <32948a6b.6008520@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32948a6b.6008520@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

>  "The chief difficulty in writing about the Jewish Question is
> the supersensitiveness of  Jews and nonJews concerning the whole
> matter. There is a vague feeling that even to openly  use the word
> 'Jew,' or expose it nakedly to print is somehow improper. Polite
> evasions like 'Hebrew' and 'Semite,' both of which are subject to the
> criticism of inaccuracy, are timidly  essayed, and people pick their
> way gingerly as if the whole subject were forbidden, until some
> courageous Jewish thinker comes straight out with the old old word
> 'Jew,' and then the constraint is relieved and the air cleared...A Jew
> is a Jew and as long as he remains within his  perfectly unassailable
> traditions, he will remain a Jew. And he will always have the right to
> feel  that to be a Jew, is to belong to a superior race. No one knows
> better than the Jew how  widespread the notion that Jewish methods of
> business are all unscrupulous. No existing Gentile  system of
> government is ever anything but distasteful to him. The Jew is against
> the Gentile  scheme of things.     He is, when he gives his tendencies
> full sway, a Republican as against the monarchy, a  Socialist as
> against the republic, and a Bolshevik as against Socialism. Democracy
> is all right for  the rest of the world, but the Jew wherever he is
> found forms an aristocracy of one sort or  another."
> 
>  (Henry Ford, Dearborn Independent)

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:32 PST 1996
Article: 81960 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:48:15 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References:  <5769ch$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>  <3298f8b8.180666161@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298f8b8.180666161@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 12:19:51 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >Actually, that is what _Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College
> >Edition) tells us: 
> >
> >"2 great or total destruction of life, esp. by fire [nuclear _holocaust_]
> >-*the Holocaust [also the h-] the systematic destruction of over six
> >million European Jews by the Nazis before and during World War II."
> 
> So Dresden and Hamburg were neither destruction by fire, nor a great
> destruction of life?  

On the contrary, the bombings of Hamburg and Dresden incurred both
destruction by fire and a great loss of life. 

But neither had a thing to do with the Holocaust.

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:33 PST 1996
Article: 81962 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: suchomel:r.i.p.
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:29:44 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <32a54628.75907101@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <576acm$kof@juliana.sprynet.com>  <3298f12c.178733454@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298f12c.178733454@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing but Nazi vulgarities]

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:34 PST 1996
Article: 81994 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:02:49 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <3293d184.237679440@news.micron.net> <19961122053200.AAA25211@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3298a5e3.159458124@news.micron.net>
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In article <3298a5e3.159458124@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 06:51:26 PST 1996
Article: 93200 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 16:36:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:93200 alt.revisionism:80916

In article <3293d728.239123141@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Wed, 20 Nov 1996 08:50:48 -0500, schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka
> Perrrfect) wrote:
> 
> >Mr. Giwer quotes an entire thread to Harry Mazelto post these two
> >sentences, and of course, his huge .sig.
> > 
> >Let's take a vote... Which of the two gentlemen involved in this discussion
> >is *really* not welcome here?
> > 
> >Sara
> 
> YOU'RE not welcome here in alt.revisionism you presumptious Nizkook
> freak.   Why don't you take your phony cheeseball Holocaust (tm) crap
> and go to hell?
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Nov 26 08:07:35 PST 1996
Article: 82027 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Power of political pressure
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:04:31 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dc3.160106@news.zippo.com> <57df52$lun@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <57df52$lun@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Chris Carpenter (ccarp@concept.net) wrote:
> :  "There is only one Power which really counts: The Power of
> : Political Pressure. We  Jews are the most powerful people on Earth,
> : because we have this power, and we know how to apply it."
> : 
> :  (Jewish Daily Bulletin, 7/27/1935)
> 
> It should be noted that, in every instance where I've been able to
> check, Chris Carpenter's quotes have either been made up out of whole
> cloth, ripped drastically out of context, or both.  He still hasn't
> responded to my query about how the testimony of "Jewish Banker Paul
> Warburg" mysteriously disappeared from the Congressional Record.
> 
> Bill

Indeed! Could it be that Mr. Carpenter feels threatened by the truth and
seeks refuge in his own fantasies?  

"A lie would have no sense unless the truth were felt as dangerous."

-Alfred Alder

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:13 PST 1996
Article: 82112 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:44:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <32939ec0.76799650@news.gte.net> <19961121052700.AAA03293@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3294b83a.296750503@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3294b83a.296750503@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:14 PST 1996
Article: 82210 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:35:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <55qv5m$bfn$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <57d3u2$9k6@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <329c9c40.60942729@news.srv.ualberta.ca>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> 
> # With that in mind, the lying-troll-bellinger would
> # necessarily have to rent space in a warehouse
> # to store his alleged collection of books.
> 
> Or -
> 
> 1) He stores them all in Dan Gannon's 25th dimension (this
>    one will be appreciated only by us alt.revisionism
>    veterans).
> 
> 2) Like Kin, hero of the great novel "Auto Da-Fe", he stores
>    all the books in his head (that is the least probable
>    option among the two).

I dunno 'bout that. Considering the apparant size of Mr. Belling's ego, #2
might not be all that improbable after all.... };-> 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Belling's increasingly irrelevant
Nazi apologia, intellectual dishonesty, and outright lies, please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.0996
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/bellinger.joseph/1996/blackmore.1096


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:15 PST 1996
Article: 82222 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!op.net!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!news.sover.net!news.monad.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.ultranet.com!news-out.communique.net!demos!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas chambers'
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:52:21 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References:  <56tlh2$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <56u2eh$802@access2.digex.net> <3292ed5c.31796357@news.gte.net> <56vtcv$673@access5.digex.net> <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>  <32956f18.2244784@news.gte.net> <3297ccef.8334868@news.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3297ccef.8334868@news.sprynet.com>, 100644.317@compuserve.com
(Miloslav Bilik) wrote:

> chief@rabbi.com (Nizkor's handler) wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, 21 Nov 1996 15:32:59 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> >Alstine) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <32941ef8.257510543@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
> >>Stele) wrote:
> >>
> >>Considering that Hitler's "Euthanasia" program killed the mentally
> >>disabled without their (or their relatives') consent, clearly evidences
> >>the difference of between humane euthanasia of the terminally ill where
> >>the terminally ill _choose_ death forthemselves.
> >
> >       When the person is a ward of the state, as was the case in these
> >cases, relatives have no say in the legal treatment.  
> 
> >>Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.
> 
> >       You folks are rather too foolish to deal with the law.  Murder is
> >defined in law.  Euthansia in accordance with law is not murder.
> >Abortion in accordance with law is not murder.
> 
> Was the euthanasia a legal treatment ? Then, why did they hide the
> real cause of the death to the relatives, trying to keep the secret ?
>
> The Hitler's text wasn't a law. How could Clemens August and many
> others lodge complaints for murder if a real law existed ?

Indeed they could because Hitler's "Euthansia" program wasn't law. To whit:

"With the collaboration of Dr. Herbert Linden, the specialist in affairs
concerning the mentally ill at the Interior Ministry and a member of the
Reich committee for 'children euthanasia,' Bouhler and Brandt put together
a list of physicians whom they considered suitable, on a basis of their
opinions and their professional qualifications, to take part in the
proposed operation....

"Bouhler and Brandt had probably benn choesn because they belonged to the
Fu"hrer's Chancellery, so that Hitler's private chancellery and not some
public administration would be responsible for the messures to be adopted.
It would thus be much easier to keep these measures secret, as they would
be outside state control." 

"...The proposed methods of killing were explained to the physicians, and
it was made clear that Hitler refused- for political reasons -to make the
measures law, and that absolute secrecy was required. The physicians were,
however, given assurances that they would be safe from any criminal
prosecution."  (Kogon, _Nazi Mass Murder_, p.15.) 

Like I said: Hitler's "Euthanasia" program was state sponsored murder.

Mark

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 82239 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence"
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:05:39 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204> <329db000.497345@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329db000.497345@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

>         I have learned that John C. Ball's book is printed on special
> paper designed for accepting and thus presenting quality photographic
> reproduction.

And has Moran also learned what "lines per inch," "halftone cells," and
"dot gain" etc etc mean? 

Has Moran even bothered to examine the photographs he boasts about with a loop? 

[snip]

Obviously not or he wouldn't (unwittingly) embarrass himself with his rubbish.  

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 82244 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence"
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:10:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204> <57972a$s9n@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <329aaf47.311699@199.0.216.204> <3299fcd1.1873894@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3299fcd1.1873894@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing but Nazi idiocy]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale. 

And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:17 PST 1996
Article: 82248 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Let them die, why should you care?'
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:43:26 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References:  <574q1o$6i1@juliana.sprynet.com> <3298ec67.177512633@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298ec67.177512633@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On 22 Nov 1996 18:05:44 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >Danny, you are such a silly little man.
> 
> Danny hates it when his cheesey posts are debunked.  Everytime he
> posts them en masse he secretly hopes revisionists happen to be "busy"
> and off the internet that day.  
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 
> "[M]ost of the memoirs and reports [of "Holocaust survivors"] are full
> of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,
> overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be
> lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies."  
> 
> Jewish historian Samuel Gringauz in _Jewish Social Studies _(New
> York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65. 
> 

"We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by
little at a truth we find bitter. "

              -Denis Diderot 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:18 PST 1996
Article: 82374 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wither the ten million?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:36:30 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
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References: <3293fcce.100670274@news.gte.net>  <3297bd00.33182719@news.gte.net> 
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In article ,
schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

> In article <3297bd00.33182719@news.gte.net>, j@j.m wrote:
> 
> 
> >         You never get the story straight.  I want 9-10 million corpses and
> > 2-3 million bodies worth of ashes from the holocaust alone. 
> 
> Why? Are you planning to pave the driveway to your trailer with them?
>  
> Sara
> 
> -- 
> "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                  Samuel Butler


ROTFL!

That's it! Twist the the swine's ear and make 'im squeal, Sara!  


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:19 PST 1996
Article: 82393 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence"
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 05:14:28 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204> <329db000.497345@199.0.216.204>  <329a2323.11685816@news.micron.net>
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In article <329a2323.11685816@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing but simple-minded Nazi vulgarities]

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"The truth is spread on the record before us, and all we have to do is
state the truth plainly. The German militarists joined forces with Hitler
and with him created the Third Reich; with him they deliberately made a
world in which might was all that mattered; with him him they plunged the
world into war, and spread terror and devestation over the continent of
Europe. They dealt a blow at all mankind; a blow so savage and foul that
the conscience of the world will reel for years to come. This was not war;
it was crime. This was not soldiering; it was savagery. We cannot make
history over again, but we can see that it is written true."  -Telford
Taylor

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:23 PST 1996
Article: 82427 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Air Photo Evidence"
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:39:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 147
Message-ID: 
References: <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204> <57972a$s9n@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <329aaf47.311699@199.0.216.204>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329aaf47.311699@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> >In article <32966e05.597584@199.0.216.204>,
> >tom moran  wrote:
> >>              
> >>      Recently I have received a copy of John Ball's book "Air Photo
> >>Evidence", the title that appears across the cover of the 116 page
> >>glossy magazine sized book.
> >
> >Ahh yes, the book where John Ball accuses Porier and Brugioni
> >of forgery, mis-identifies a fence, and insists that all
> >photos must be of the same quality or they're all fakes.
> 
> I don't know anything about any John Ball accusations, or
> whatever else you say here.... 

How odd. It's all there in Mr. Ball's book.... 

> ...It's not even relevant, as I see it.

Obviously, if the Moran (tm) did not see Mr. Balls accusations of forgery
in his book, the Moran(tm) has his denier blinders firmly in place over
his eyes. Nothing will therefore be "relevant" if it disagrees with the
Moran's(tm) bigotry and prejudices. 

> Photos are relevant. 

Indeed. But what is actually more relevent is Ball's claims based on _his_
"interpretation" of these photos. If the Moran(tm) truly believes that the
_photos_ are relevent then why does he not accept Brugioni's (and
Porier's) interpretation of them? After all, Brugioni was an _expert_
analyst in photo reconnaissance for the CIA, whereas Ball's expertise in
photo interpretation extends only to mineral exploration. 

> If you want to play the Debra Lipstadt game of
> challenging the people instead of the evidence, go ahead. I don't have
> to play or respond to the little ploy.

Unfortuantely, it appears that the Moran(tm) "overlooks" that the
"evidence" _is_ Ball's _interpretation_ of the photos, not the photos
themselves. An interpretation, btw, which is at odds with the
interpretation of experts in the field who have also anlyzed the photos. 

> >>These photos were not released until 1979, by the CIA. Mr.Ball
> >>makes a case for a few of them being tampered with, which could very
> >>well be the case, judging by evidence shown, but regardless of whether
> >>or not they were, the photos are a serious blow to the reality of the
> >>Holocaust story.
> >
> >That's a very weird notion.  Do you believe they were tampered
> >with or not?  If so, how can you use them for evidence of anything
> >at all, one way or the other?
> 
> I see it as a very distinct possiblity. 

Based on what evidence? 

> There is a lot of desperation and intrigue associated with the Holocaust. 

Correction: There is a lot of desperation and intrigue associated with the
Holocaust _denial_. I would challenge the Moran(tm), seeing as he claims
there is "a lot," to offer 100 veriable instances of depseration and
intrigue on the part of hisorians and Holocaust researchers in regards to
the Holocaust. 

Will the Moran(tm) take up the challange? Of course not! He fullwell knows
he is spouting bigoted drivel that has no basis in fact.

> As I said, it doesn't make any difference whether or not they have been 
> tampered with, as far as denying the story goes. 

Really? Such accusations are the cornerstone of Mr. Ball's premise that
there were no  homicidal gassings at Auschwitz. Without such accusations
of forgery and tampering he has has _no_ premise! Perhaps you should
inform Mr. Ball of your amazing prognostications? 

> If you have a person in a photo along with a car, and the image
> of the car has been tampered with, does this make the image of the
> person unidentifiable? 

If a person claims that a photo was tampered with as the premise to his
claims, and it turns out that no such tampering can be proven, is the
Moran (tm) arguing that such claims are still valid? 

> What you would prefer is to have all the photos banned from
> consideration for the sake of protecting the lie....  

On the contrary! I would very much so offer these air photos as supporting
evidence to the fact that homicidal gassing took place at Auschwitz. 

It is Ball's ersatz "interpretation" that I would challenge as to being
based in reality. 

[snip]

> >You and Ball both make the same dumb mistake:  You argue that
> >a piece of evidence is useless, and then argue the mutually 
> >exclusive position that this piece of evidence proves the denier
> >thesis.
> 
> You didn't cite anything said by either Mr.Ball or my self as
> exact examples of whatever you claim here. Your statement says
> nothing. It announces - something - whatever that may be.

Mr. Harmon surely did. He said: 

"Ahh yes, the book where John Ball accuses Porier and Brugioni of forgery,
mis-identifies a fence, and insists that all photos must be of the same
quality or they're all fakes."

But then, the Moran has his denier blinders firmly emplaced over his eyes
so that he need not actually have to _see_ what is before them. This is so
that he need not acknowledge the absurdity of his arguments and the fact
that his repugnant beliefs, accusations, and Holocaust denial are based
soley on his bigotry and prejudices toward those having Jewish ethnicity.

[snip]

The Moran (tm) is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/1996/what-moran-believes.9607
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/hilberg-out-of-context
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:23 PST 1996
Article: 82429 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Action Rehnardht
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:36:07 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 66
Message-ID: 
References: <57b86o$g58@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <57b86o$g58@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> # The interesting feature here is that for these 3 camps
> # we don't find any mention of gold teeths, shoes,
> 
> >Letter from SS-Gruppenfuehrer Katzmann to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer
> >Kruger, regarding the solution of the Jewish problem in Galicia,
> >and giving a breakdown of property taken from the Jews, June 30,
> >1943
> >[Documents on the Holocaust - Edited by Y. Arad, Y. Gutman,
> >A. Margaliot, NY, Ktav Pub. House in Association with Yad-Vashem,
> >1981, p. 335-341]
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Valuables were secured and handed over to the special staff
> >Reinhard Apart from furniture and large quantities of textile,
> >etc., the following were confiscated and delivered to special staff
> >Reinhard;:
> >
> >As of June 30, 1943:
> > .
> > .
> >20.952 Kg - wedding rings - gold
> >22.740 Kg - pearls
> >11.730 Kg - gold teeth
> 
>  It's the same letter that you used few weeks ago, and I don't know if
>  is signed or not. Anyway, As I said, for the 3 transit camps (Treblinka,
>  Belzec Sobibor) there's no document that speaks about gold teeths. 

"The gold teeth that had been extracted from the corpses of the victims
after they had been removed from the gas chambers were packed, tranferred
to the camps' headquarters, and from there sent to their destinations.
Abraham Lindwaser, who was made to extract teeth in Treblinka, relates
that during the period that the transports arrived, every week an average
of two suitcases full of gold, each with 18 kg, were sent from Treblnka.
The money, gold, and valuables were sent from Treblinka in an armored car
or in a special railway car with an SS and Ukranian guard escort.

"SS _Untercharfu"hrer_ Gustav Mu"nzberger relates:

   "I knoq that Matthes [who was i charge of Camp III], at the end of each 
    day when a transport arrived, used to take the gold to the lower camp. 
    This relates to gold teeth and valuables of gold that had been found on 
    the corpses. This gold was brought in a small case.

Cf. Arad, _Belzac, Sobibor, Treblinka_, p.158.

[snip]

For those interested in Mr. Beaulieu's prolific Holocaust denial and
crackpot "theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/beaulieu-misrepresents-hoess
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/beaulieu.jean-francois/shoah-suchomel-faked.01


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:24 PST 1996
Article: 82442 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 11:43:52 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 93
Message-ID: 
References: <32997b4c.5404729@news.gte.net> <19961126050400.AAA01927@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961126050400.AAA01927@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

[snip]

> As I have said before: "Revisionist must  explain the best "witness"  account,
> not simply point out the obvious frauds.

Mr. Allen, what deniers must do, and what they have consistantly _failed_
to do (yourself included), is to offer reasonable explinations for their
assorted premises denying the Holocaust that incoprorates the known
historical facts regarding the Holocaust.

This, of course, is why deniers instead resort to supporting their
arguments with sophistry and quasi-religious dogma. Not to mention
gratuitous anti-Semitism and outright lies. 

> I know next to nothing about Nyiszli other than
> that his account is most remarkable and 
> has the inaccuracies in it (as we have both agreed).

That is obvious, Mr. Allen. What is equally as obvious is that you have
studiously ignored the _accuracies_ in Nyiszli's most remarkable account.
Accuracies, btw, that are supported by the remarkable accounts of several
other eywitnesses as well as the physical and documentary evidence.

Why is that, Mr. Allen?  

> Nyiszli may have been at Birkenau or he may
> not really have existed.  

Nyiszli gave a deposition on July 28, 1945, before the Budapest Commission
for the Welfare of Deported Hungarian Jews. 

> I am not in a position to say.  

Obviously.

> It would make an interesting paper for some history student.

Indeed. 

> Anyway, I think the inaccuarcies are important. You don't.  

No, I think the innacuraies, as well as the accurracies, in Nyiszli's
narrative should be carefully compared against other eyewitness testimony
and physical and documentary evidence so that the salient facts in
Nyiszli's and others' narratives may be revealed. 

By the simple fact, Mr. Allen, that _you_ have repeatedly ignored the many
accurracies in Nyiszli's narrative evidences that _you_ are not interested
in facts, but rather to dishonestly attempt to discredit Nyiszli's
narrative. 

> Once we have identified them, that is about as far as we can take this one. 

No, Mr. Allen, it is not. One can also address the _entire_ narrative-
warts and all -and compare it to the _entire_ known body of knowledge
concerning homicidal operations at Auschwitz. 

Yet you refuse to do this. Why is that, Mr. Allen?  

> So...
> 
> Back to Nyiszli's account of Krema II:
> Nyiszli claimed that 3,000 people at a time undressed
> in Leichenkeller 2.  You and I know that Leichenkeller 2
> is approximately 4,000 sq. ft. in size subtracting the
> columns adding a few guards and Sondercommandos.
> That's is (generously) about 1.5 sq. ft per person to undress
> in.

How many square feet do you hypothesize an adult needs to undress in, Mr.
Allen? 

A teenager? A child? An infant? 

[snip]

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 10:02:05 PST 1996
Article: 82465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Auswanderung nach Palestina
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 14:36:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 95
Message-ID: 
References: <56kgue$d97$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <56tngr$lko@juliana.sprynet.com> <570ust$23q@access5.digex.net> <32976be1.12415741@news.gte.net> <57dujk$fg0$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <57dujk$fg0$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>, ibokor@metz.une.edu.au
(ibokor) wrote:

> jimmy (jimmy@jaimie.mcc) wrote:
>  
> : In the emigration from Germany the Jews were at first the only
> : people exempt from the exit duties.  However as a result of the barter
> : agreement discussed above Weizmann insisted that the exemption only be
> : given to Jews if they emigrated to Palestine.  
> 
> The Auswanderungsabgabe was introduced for Jews, they were anything
> but exempt from it. It amounted to 10--60% of the total assets if
> this exceeded 10,000 RM.

> 
> You may have been confused by the "Devisenbestimmungen" under
> which the amount of foreign currency an emigrating Jew could
> purchase and export was limited to a modest amount, the only
> exception being Jewish emigrants to Palestine who were permitted
> to purchase the 1000 pounds sterling which was te sine qua non
> for the issue of an entry permit.
> 
> Yoiu'll find some of the details in the original posting of
> mine which commenced this thread.
> 
> d.A.


Regarding Jewish emigration to Palestine and elsewhere:

"...Jews emigrating to Palestine were given a special opportunity by the
so-called _Haavara_ agreement. This agreement was concluded by the German
Reich and the Jewish Agency for Palestine. In form, it was a modified
clearing arrangement. Under its terms a Jewish 'capitalist' who wanted to
emigrate to Palestine was permitted to make a contract with a German
exporter for the transfer of goods from Germany to Palestine. The German
exporter was paid with funds drawn from the blocked account of the
emigrating Jew. The emigrant recieved his Palestinian currency from the
Jewish Agency upon arrival in Palestine. In short, the channels were as
follows:

Jewish Emmigrant's 
blocked account                  Emmigrant
      |                             |
      |                            /|\
      | Payment in                  |  Payment in 
      | Reichsmarks                 |  pounds
      |                             |
     \|/                            |
      |           Export to         |
German Ex[prter ------------> Jewish Agency 

The Jewish Agency and the exporters wee just as satisfied with this
arrangement as the emigrants themselves. German goods poured into
Palestine, and after a while, the Havaara clearing agreement providing for
the exchange of Palestine oranges for German timber, wrapping paper, motor
cars, pumps, agricultural machinery, etc. It seemed as though the economic
relations between Nazi Germany and the Jewish community in Palestine were
excellent. Naturally, there was some dissatisfication in the Nazi Party,
the Foreign Office's Germany  Referat (which was to deal with Jewish
matters), and, last but not least, the Palestine Germans, who complained
that their interests had been neglected utterly in favor of the Jews.
Nevertheless, this interesting arrangement survived." (Hilberg,
_Destruction_, p.95.) 

In contrast "normal" foriegn currency exhcanges for Jews (e.g. Jewish
"capitalist" doing business abroad), as carried out by the General
Trusteeship Office for Jewish emigration imposed an exchange rate on Jews
that robbed them of 50 percent of the value of their currency for all
currency exchanges other than Palestinian currency. This extortion
continued up until 1938 when Jewish emmigration applications were no
longer accepted. (cf. Ibid. pp.94-95.) 

Even worse was the plight of Jewish emmigrants to countries other than
Palestine. Under the so-called "free currency zone" each emmigrant was
allowed to take along 10 reichsmark in foreign currency at the official
exchange rate. For a family of three emmigrating to the U.S., for example,
this would have amounted to $24. (cf. Ibid. p.94.) 

Obviously, according the above, Jewish "capitalist" emmigrants to
Palestine was a very special case. One that was used to subsidize German
exports, rather than allow Jews to leave the country with their wealth. In
comparison, most Jews were extremely limited by the Nazis as to how much
currency they would take with them _if_ they could emmigrate to a country
that would accept them. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 10:46:31 PST 1996
Article: 82466 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.coli.uni-sb.de!fu-berlin.de!unlisys!blackbush.xlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 03:01:19 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
References: <32966c00.347689@news.demon.co.uk> <57678r$1vg@news.enter.net> <32976469.10503527@news.gte.net> <57cuul$qg9@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <329b1463.106305744@news.gte.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

> I think the name of this thread ought to die out, since gate.net MUST have
> done something. Matt Giwer is now on gte.net (but for how long?), not
> gate.net.
>  
> So either Mr. Giwer decided to switch ISPs (not likely), or gate.net
> bounced his little pathetic ass.

...like a bad check:  BOIIIINNNNG!

>  
> Sara
> 
> -- 
> "I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
>                  Samuel Butler


The  gonadotoxic Giwer-swine is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, and has generally conducted himself with such a
complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be
no point in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/forgeries.1096
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Nov 28 11:03:57 PST 1996
Article: 82470 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.coli.uni-sb.de!fu-berlin.de!main.Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:01:17 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 81
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961124172300.MAA22056@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <19961124172300.MAA22056@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> (Jamie McCarthy 23 Nov 1996 
> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> > Whining about Nysizli not mentioning the vestibule
> > between the L.Kellers [...]
> 
> Chief@rabbi.com (a troll) wrote:
>  
> >> Between the two LKs, right?  BETWEEN the two, as in LK I and
> >> LK II right?  
> > 
> >>As in those two buildings that were behind 
> >>KR II and KR III right? 
> 
> >Wrong.
> 
> NO, JAMIE IS WRONG.  

How bizzare. Is Mr. Allen you claiming that the vestibule _was_  "behind 
KR II and KR III?" 

Surely Mr. Allen jests!

> The little vestibule, along witn elevator shaft and other rooms is between
> Leichenkeller 1 and Leichenkeller 2.  

I see. How then, considering that this directly refutes the claim that
"those two buildings that were behind KR II and KR III, " is Mr. McCarthy
"wrong?" 

It doesn't. 

Mr. McCarthy _isn't_ wrong, of course, but that does not stop Mr. Allen
>from  his knee-jerk response of "JAMIE IS WRONG" while immediately proving
that Mr. Carthyu was correct! 

And deniers question why they are labeled as irrational buffoons? Amazing. 

> This room would impede crowd movement,
> especially at the Hoaxter numbers claimed,
> ie.  at one person per 1.4 square feet. 

Mr. Allen once more brings a smelly dead fish to the table. Such poor manners!

The vestibule between the L.Kellers was hardly an impediment to the
victims being herded between  L.Keller 2 and L.Keller 1. Both L.Kellers
had doorways connecting them to the vestibule. The victims simply walked
through L.Keller 2's doorway, through the vestuibule, and then through the
doorway of L.Keller 1.

> Of course, Hoaxters like Jamie and VanAlstine never mention this and
then DENY 
> its importance when brought up....

Really? Does this mean that Mr. Allen _is_ saying that the vestibule
between the L.Kellers, which the construction drawing clearly shows as
being underground and connecting the two, was in fact between "two
buildings that were behind KR II and KR III?"

If so, small wonder, with such crackpot assumptions, why deniers are
considered irrational buffoons.

[snip]

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:04 PST 1996
Article: 82490 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!dciteleport.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: DbtgThomas, want to comment?
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:57:11 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <56uksf$778@viper.txdirect.net> <329305ac.38020458@news.gte.net>  <329653a0.54579356@news.gte.net> <5778ai$jvu@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <329841a7.67141418@news.gte.net> <32987BE1.4C07@nbnet.nb.ca> <3299ff39.38155244@news.gte.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:82490 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:690

In article , Dene Bebbington
 wrote:

[snip]

> >>I think this makes it quite clear that Giwer reacts to any criticism
> >>by posting volumes of material that have no relevance whatsoever.  No
> >>comment, no measured response but a simple temper tantrum like a child.
> >>
> >>So I would love to hear DbtgThomas comment on this rather infantile
> >>behaviour.  Or does he still consider Giwer to actually be a nice
> >>and misunderstood person?
> >
> >       Giwer is very well understood.  That is why he is attacked.
> 
> Indeed, he is understood to be the liar, ignoramus, forger, and anti-
> semite that he is.
> 
> > He is
> >very effective.  He calls people liars who say they hear laughter from
> >fighter pilots and see their faces from inside closed trucks.  He does
> >not care if they are "survivors" or "jews" or not.  He identifies them
> >as the liars they are.  
> >
> >       Giwer ridicules those stupid enough to believe such stories.  
> 
> As a general point it should be noted that you calling someone a liar is
> somewhat far removed from actually demonstrating them to be a liar.

Indeed. In the particular case of the Giwer-swine, such demonstration is
self-admitted:

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:05 PST 1996
Article: 82504 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: On the Bolshevic revolution
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:17:01 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <32986e62.3289787@news.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32986e62.3289787@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
Carpenter) wrote:

> "The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish
> brains, of Jewish  dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is
> to create a new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent
> a way in Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish 
> dissatisfaction and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same
> Jewish mental an physical forces, become a reality all over the
> world."
> 
> (The American Hebrew, September 10, 1920)
>  

 "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
the Jewish race throughout Europe."

     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:06 PST 1996
Article: 82522 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-paris.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Last Call for Yale to Retract his Lies
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 05:17:00 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <57dtld$glp@Vir.com> <57etbi$er5@news.enter.net> <329cbe60.76236674@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329cbe60.76236674@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> Yale continues to post his deliberate lies.  For those interested in
> the verifying the truth of the Freeman Case, please call Mr. Robert
> Steinberg at 610-820-3100.  Mr. Steinberg is the district attorney who
> prosecuted the Freeman brothers case.  Mr. Steinberg will verify that
> not only were the Freeman brothers not NA members, but the Freeman
> brothers were not members of a formal organization at all (although
> they had brief contact with Mark Thomas, a follower of Christian
> Identity).  He will also verify that all the information is in the
> public record for one to verify that in fact, the Freeman Brothers
> were -not- NA members.  In the future, I would suggest Yale at least
> desist from his lies for the sake of integrity since he has been
> discovered as a liar.
> 
> Kurt Stele

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:07 PST 1996
Article: 82545 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!pumpkin.pangea.ca!out2.nntp.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Yale Eideken's Lie Exposed
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:26:38 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <329bc0d2.11317388@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329bc0d2.11317388@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Yale Eideken made the claim on or around October 19, 1996 that the
> convicted Freeman brothers of Pennsylvania "were NA members."  This
> lie will be exposed presently. 

And Hiler was a Jew, survived the war, and now lives at a secret Nazi UFO
base at the South Pole.... 

The fact is that Mr. Eideken has shown that Mr. Smith is a unaccomplished
liar in in regard to the brothers Freeman being Nazis just like Mr. Smith.
Birds of a feather and all....

[Mr. Smith Nazi pedantry snipped]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:08 PST 1996
Article: 82569 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.fdt.net!news.gwi.net!news.bihs.net!news.tamu.edu!news.io.com!interval.net!arlut.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Stele's repeated lies
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 05:37:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References:  <329cbb7a.75494663@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329cbb7a.75494663@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:14:23 -0500, Ephraim Nussbaum
>  wrote:

[snip]

> >>>At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> >>>charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> >>>"vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> >>>trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> >>>1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.
> >
> >  and no reputable historian ever did. neither is it true
> >  that Robert Jackson ever made such a charge. Jackson
> >  was questioning a witness (not making a charge) about 
> >  a rumor, 
> 
> And why do prosecutors question witnesses in relation to charges?  

And why do Nazi apologists, such as Mr. Smith,  misrepresent and lie about this?

Could it be because, in the case of Mr. Smith, that he does so in the
service of his murderous "religion," that is, National Socialism and its
"messiah" Adolf Hitler? That he, like the fanatic he is, cannot brook any
challenge to his hateful and solipsistic beliefs, lest they come crashing
down 'round his head and he must then face the abject inadequacy of his
life? 

Apparantly so. How pathetic.

[snip]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:08 PST 1996
Article: 82582 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!tor.istar!east.istar!n4ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!EU.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Threat from Jewish underground
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:29:28 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 57
Message-ID: 
References: <32970dfa.215306@news.zippo.com>  <329d109f.3268546@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329d109f.3268546@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:52:33 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32970dfa.215306@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
> >Carpenter) wrote:
> >
> >>  "...the [Jewish] underground will strike targets that will
> >> make Americans gasp." 
> >> 
> >> (Victor Vancier, Village Voice, Statements of New
> >> York City Jewish Defense League  Commander, April, 1986)
> >> 
> >
> > "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
> >financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> >the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
> >the Jewish race throughout Europe."
> >
> >     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
> 
>  "Judea declares War on Germany." (Daily Express, March 24, 1934)

And where, exactly, was this country called "Judea?" 

Why there wasn't any such nation, of course! Obviously, such minor details
don't phase the Nazi Mr. Smith in caterig to his Nazi fantasies!

And what military might did this "Judea" bring to bear against Nazi
Germany in 1934? 

Why none, of course! Obviously, such minor details don't phase the Nazi
Mr. Smith in caterig to his Nazi fantasies!

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:09 PST 1996
Article: 82583 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!tor.istar!east.istar!n4ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Responsibility for WW I
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:30:38 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 59
Message-ID: 
References: <32970d9e.123361@news.zippo.com>  <329d0bc5.2026040@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329d0bc5.2026040@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 21:56:05 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32970d9e.123361@news.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris
> >Carpenter) wrote:
> >
> >>  "The responsibility for the last World War [WW I] rests solely
> >> upon the shoulders of  the international financiers. It is upon them
> >> that rests the blood of millions of dead and millions  of dying."
> >> 
> >> (Congressional Record, 67th Congress, 4th Session, Senate Document No.
> >> 346)
> >> 
> >
> > "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
> >financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> >the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
> >the Jewish race throughout Europe."
> >
> >     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
> 
>  "Judea declares War on Germany." (Daily Express, March 24, 1934)


And where, exactly, was this country called "Judea?" 

Why there wasn't any such nation, of course! Obviously, such minor details
don't phase the Nazi Mr. Smith in caterig to his Nazi fantasies!

And what military might did this "Judea" bring to bear against Nazi
Germany in 1934? 

Why none, of course! Obviously, such minor details don't phase the Nazi
Mr. Smith in caterig to his Nazi fantasies!

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:10 PST 1996
Article: 82619 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:18:05 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <32939ec0.76799650@news.gte.net> <19961121052800.AAA03299@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <3294ff46.3501578@news.gte.net> <3298a8f2.160241198@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298a8f2.160241198@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson
> charged that the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously
> "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no
> trace left of them." IMT blue series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21,
> 1946).  No reputable historian now accepts this fanciful tale.
> 
 And only pathetic little Nazis like Mr. Smith keep repeating such lies.
The absolute moral and intellectual depravity of Mr. Smith and his Nazi
ilk in continuing to promulgate this is revealed at: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/j/jackson.robert/vaporizing-device-context

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:10 PST 1996
Article: 82620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:13:29 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com>  <32917022.46EC@se-iowa.net> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:82620 alt.discrimination:57177 alt.politics.white-power:50809 alt.politics.nationalism.white:37374

In article <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> ># The only problem is that there is no more physical evidence
> ># for gas chambers at Auschwitz then there was for Dachau.
> 
> >Kindly stop with this nonsense. Even "revisionists" agree that
> >there are cyanide compounds on the walls of the Auschwitz gas
> >chambers.
> 
> Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used for delousing
> to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured for.  Why do you persist
> in the gassing lie?

Because the hopmicidal gas chambers of the Kremas and bunkers were never
used as delousing installations. The actual delousing gas chambers existed
elsewhere at Auschwitz. This, of course, is documented in great detail by
Pressac in _Technique_. 

Why then does Mr. Smith persist in denying this? Could it be because Mr.
Smith is a Nazi and who's purpose of posting his virulent anti-Semitic
Holocuast denial is to exhonerate his Nazi heroes? (Though, considering
the idiotic rationalizations Mr. Smith actually posts, one can only be
amused if he thinks he is actually accomplishing anything besides
highlighting how puerile, hateful, and utterly absurd he is personally,
and that his National Alliance is as an orgainaztion of like social
deviants and misfits!) 

Given this, one can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National
Alliance realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the
digital street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:11 PST 1996
Article: 82697 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Suchomel and Shoah
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 05:13:05 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References: <565v2j$ohh@Vir.com>   <56nppm$b9c@Vir.com> <328fef61.24450673@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <570gjq$tnf@Vir.com>  <57755a$3nn@Vir.com>  <57gj8k$tdj@Vir.com>  <329cc335.77473549@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329cc335.77473549@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:12 PST 1996
Article: 82709 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hitler Talks About the Jews, I
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 01:27:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
References:  <329333c0.6908027@news.zippo.com>  <32949a6c.10104771@news.zippo.com> <572q2n$eis@access5.digex.net> <3295c974.4131568@news.zippo.com>  <3298f48c.179597535@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3298f48c.179597535@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:34:58 -0700, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van
> Alstine) wrote:
> 
> > "Today I will once more be a prophet:  If the international Jewish
> >financiers inside and outside Europe should again succeed in plunging
> >the nations into a world war, the result will be...the annhilation of
> >the Jewish race throughout Europe."
> >
> >     - Adolf  Hitler in his speech to the Reichstag;  January 30, 1939.
> 
> Why did never issue any order to kill Jews if that was Hitler's
> intent?   Oops!

Oops indeed, Mr. Smith. Your fascile one-liners land you in hot water yet
again! To whit:

In regards objections to the mass shooting of German Jews outside Riga by
Dr. Bernhard Lo"sener, the Advisor on Jewish Affairs to the Interior
Ministry, to his superior, Secretary of State Dr. Stuckart:

"I told him that my colleague, Dr. Feldscher, had recieved an eyewitness
account  of the way in which deported German Jews had recently been
massacred in Riga...I told Stickart that this outrage had affected me as
it would any feeling human being; and that in  the present case I was also
affected as an advisor in the Ministry of the Interior, since Jews of
German citizenship were involved. My conscience and my position at the
Ministry were now irreconcilable. They would remain so even if the present
policy on mixed marriages and on the offspring fropm these unions were to
prove untenable. Stuckart's reply to this was, word for word: 'Herr
Lo"sener, don't you realize that all of this is being done on orders from
the highest level?' [*] I said, 'There is a judge inside me who tells me
what I have to do.' Stickart answered that if my conscience did not allow
me to continue, he would relieve me at once from my position; but first he
would need to consider how I might otherwise be employed." (Fleming,
_Hitler and the Final Solution_  p.107.)

* "'On orders from the highest level' can mean only that an order or
command came from Hitler himself" [Richard Schultze-Kossens to Fleming, 1
December 1979.]; Ibid. p.107fn.

Furthermore, according to Fleming: 



...Since we find that this expression of Hilter's will, equivalent in
force to a command, was closely connected with mass shootings that occured
outside Riga in November and December of 1941, the following comments are
worth quoting. Dr, Werner Best has said: "I can attest that, seen from
'from below,' that is, from the perspective of thoise who recieved the
orders, the formulas 'der Fu"hrer wu"nscht' [the Fu"hrer's wishes] and
'der Fu"hrer hat befohlen' [the Fu"hrer has ordered] were perfectly
synonymous...At the recieving end as well...the word 'wish' was used as an
equivalent to 'order'." And according to Richard Schulze-Kossens: "The
verbal expression 'der Fu"hrer wu"nscht,' 'es ist des Fu"hrers Wunsch ist'
[which is the Fu"hrer's wish]...are identical in menaing. Although these
are not direct orders, they are nonetheless, to be interpreted as such. If
, therefore, he were to tell me to signal the Leibstandarte [Hiltrer's
bodyguard] ...'it is my wish that they do this and that immediately,' then
the commander of the Leibstandarte naturally would view this as an order.
The 'wish' is always communicated by a theird party and is not explicitly
passed on as a Fu"hrer-order. But it does indeed have the force of an
order."



Fleming, _Hitler and the Final Solution_, pp.45-46.


For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:13 PST 1996
Article: 82745 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Last Call to Nizkooks: Quit Spamming and Leave
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:23:59 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References: <329d1c88.6317789@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329d1c88.6317789@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> The Nizkooks continue to abuse and defile the forum.  They continue to
> subvert the purpose of alt.revisionism.  
> 
> You are being asked to desist your spamming and leave at this time.  
> 
> You already have exclusive propaganda rights in the mass media, from
> the "educational" system (sic), from Hollywood.   What's the matter?
> You still can't hold it together?  (snarf)
> 
> This is a last call.  You're not welcome here.  Go play in the
> projects.  Go do whatever you people do:  hound geriatric Germans,
> concoct oblique ways to squeeze more money out of the Hollowcause,
> apply more efforts to shut down Ernst Zundel's website or firebomb his
> home, push for thoughtcrime laws in America as in Europe, and whine
> for more money for Israel so they can kill and legally torture more
> Palestinians.    
> 
> You will not be heard to complain about "off-topic" posts in the
> future.  You are hereby expanding the purview of alt.revisionism to
> indefinite bounds.
> 
> Kurt Stele

In regards to the above hypocrisy, Mr. Smith is cordially invited to go
play on a freeway.

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:29:14 PST 1996
Article: 82825 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!news.nacamar.de!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A matter of links, Part 2 of 2
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 05:14:55 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <56ngec$blr@rks1.urz.tu-dresden.de> <19961125095900.EAA13001@ladder01.news.aol.com>  <329c5ba4.18549051@news.gte.net> <329cc182.77038790@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329cc182.77038790@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Nov 1996 15:21:50 GMT, rbs@arches.ogre (RBS) wrote:
> 
> >On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 06:54:08 GMT, dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
> >wrote:
> 
> >>Oh, we all know what a humane, thoughtful chap "dvdthomas"
> >>is. Question is, why doesn't he apply this type of "humor"
> >>to testimonies about alleged atrocities committed against
> >>Germans?
> >
> >       Good point, both are in the same category, no physical evidence.
> >No ruptured testicles, no gassed bodies.  
> 
> If Danny wants to believe German prisoners were not tortured by
> Allies, or that the Civil War never happened, or that Dresden never
> occurred, that is his prerogative.  However, by doing so he does
> nothing to help explain the contradictions and impossibilities of the
> Holohoax, nor to account for its lack of physical evidence.
> 
> Poor Danny.  Having to stoop to such folly to try to wriggle out of
> the Tale's falsehoods.
> 
> Kurt Stele
> 

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:37:48 PST 1996
Article: 37374 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:13:29 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <54o0mu$2j5@news1.panix.com>  <32917022.46EC@se-iowa.net> <56vsfn$d97@is05.micron.net>  <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi142.rbi.com
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:82620 alt.discrimination:57177 alt.politics.white-power:50809 alt.politics.nationalism.white:37374

In article <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> ># The only problem is that there is no more physical evidence
> ># for gas chambers at Auschwitz then there was for Dachau.
> 
> >Kindly stop with this nonsense. Even "revisionists" agree that
> >there are cyanide compounds on the walls of the Auschwitz gas
> >chambers.
> 
> Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used for delousing
> to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured for.  Why do you persist
> in the gassing lie?

Because the hopmicidal gas chambers of the Kremas and bunkers were never
used as delousing installations. The actual delousing gas chambers existed
elsewhere at Auschwitz. This, of course, is documented in great detail by
Pressac in _Technique_. 

Why then does Mr. Smith persist in denying this? Could it be because Mr.
Smith is a Nazi and who's purpose of posting his virulent anti-Semitic
Holocuast denial is to exhonerate his Nazi heroes? (Though, considering
the idiotic rationalizations Mr. Smith actually posts, one can only be
amused if he thinks he is actually accomplishing anything besides
highlighting how puerile, hateful, and utterly absurd he is personally,
and that his National Alliance is as an orgainaztion of like social
deviants and misfits!) 

Given this, one can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National
Alliance realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the
digital street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Nov 30 11:39:30 PST 1996
Article: 50809 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.immigration,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Holocaust-Denial Nonsense (Re: blood sucking  BRIAN SM
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:13:29 -0700
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In article <57949k$cds@is05.micron.net>, sbrian@micron.net (Brian Smith) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> ># The only problem is that there is no more physical evidence
> ># for gas chambers at Auschwitz then there was for Dachau.
> 
> >Kindly stop with this nonsense. Even "revisionists" agree that
> >there are cyanide compounds on the walls of the Auschwitz gas
> >chambers.
> 
> Which indicate nothing more than that Zyklon B was used for delousing
> to save lives, exactly as it was manufactured for.  Why do you persist
> in the gassing lie?

Because the hopmicidal gas chambers of the Kremas and bunkers were never
used as delousing installations. The actual delousing gas chambers existed
elsewhere at Auschwitz. This, of course, is documented in great detail by
Pressac in _Technique_. 

Why then does Mr. Smith persist in denying this? Could it be because Mr.
Smith is a Nazi and who's purpose of posting his virulent anti-Semitic
Holocuast denial is to exhonerate his Nazi heroes? (Though, considering
the idiotic rationalizations Mr. Smith actually posts, one can only be
amused if he thinks he is actually accomplishing anything besides
highlighting how puerile, hateful, and utterly absurd he is personally,
and that his National Alliance is as an orgainaztion of like social
deviants and misfits!) 

Given this, one can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National
Alliance realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the
digital street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:06 PST 1996
Article: 82924 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 12:30:58 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
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In article <329bd496.16377854@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:06 PST 1996
Article: 82932 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 00:17:05 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
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In article <329bd245.15784418@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

"In Jerusalem there is a memorial site for the six million Jews murdered
by the Nazi's during World War 2. It is called Yad Vashem and was raised
1953. An avenue called "The Avenue of the Righteous" runs through this
site. The wind whispers continuously through the several hundred trees
planted there. Each and every tree has been planted to honor a non-Jewish
person risking his or her life to save Jews from the Nazi murderers." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:07 PST 1996
Article: 82955 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news1.hotstar.net!winternet.com!news3.mr.net!mr.net!newshub.tc.umn.edu!spool.mu.edu!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 00:28:10 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <19961120043800.XAA09140@ladder01.news.aol.com> <19961120055600.AAA10637@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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In article <19961120055600.AAA10637@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com
wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 07 Nov 1996 
>    Comments in Capitals

More like Mr. Allen's faux pas in capitals. Obviously, Mr. Allen has never
read   Broad's description of a gassing in **** KREMA I ***** very
carefully. If he had, he wouldn't have made such an ass of himslef by
braying in caps....

[Mr. Allen's ignorance in discerning between Kremas I and II, among other
things, snipped]

Now, would Mr. Allen care to try again? Without shouting himself into
incredulity? 

For those interested in Mr. Allen's prolific Holocaust denial and crackpot
"theories," please visit:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:08 PST 1996
Article: 83025 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another 'Revisionist' Effort Against Free Speech
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 00:46:23 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> On Nov 18 1996, one "revisionist", who happens to be
> very active on alt.revisionism, sent the following
> e-mail to my ISP, demanding to limit my postings.
> 
> Note also the threat to mailbomb my ISP if he doesn't
> agree to meet this demand.
> 
> 
> 
> # Would you please ask your user to stop spamming the
> # alt.revisionism conference with holocaust material?
> # It would be much appreciated.  Although this is clearly
> # an unmoderated conference, his spams are making it unusable
> # for its intended purpose.  This is but one of many examples.
> #
> # This has gone on for over a year now since I first started
> # objecting to his spamming.  I have previously limited it to
> # public posting in the newsgroup.  At this point I know that
> # the patience of many of the users of the conference are losing
> # patience with his spamming and have suggested returning his
> # spams to his provider also.
> #
> # Why not save yourself some hassle and try to slow him down?
> # Just an attempt to help out here.
> #
> #       Thank you for your time.
> #
> # [copy of one of my articles deleted]
> 
> 
> 
> Will this "revisionist" come forward and explain how this
> request, and this threat, are consistent with fighting for
> "freedom of speech"?
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.

 

Danny, Danny, Danny...

How can you ask such difficult and embarrassing questions of these
deniers? Have  you no pity? Don't you realize that if they answer they
look like the bigoted hypocrites they are? And if they _don't_ answer they
like the bigoted hypocrites they are? Oh, the devilish conundrum you have
laid at their feet! (This will earn you bonus points, redeemable for a
prize at the next secret ZOG meeting.) 

Doesn't this fall under the catagory of "hoist by one's own petard?" 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83029 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another 'Revisionist' Effort Against Free Speech
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 13:05:56 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References:  <329bba38.9626300@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329bba38.9626300@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[Nothing of importance]

> "The 'questioning' comprises making Palestinian stand for days at a
> time, shackling them in contorted or bent-over positions and confining
> them in tiny chairs or closet-like cubicles. Routinely deprived of
> sleep, the detainees are forced to relieve themselves in their
> clothing and are exposed to extremes of heat and cold while being
> bombarded with loud, nonstop music.  One of the worst forms of torture
> is "hooding," compelling those held for questioning to wear
> foul-smelling canvas sacks over their heads for days on end."  
> 
> [Chicago Tribune, June 15, 1994]

"...The most horrible thing was when the doors of the gas chambers were
opened- the unbearable sight: people were packed together like basalt,
like blocks of stone. How they tumbled out of the gas chamber! I saw that
several times. That was the toughest thing to take. You could never get
used to that. It was impossible. 

"...You see, once the gas was poured in, it worked like this: it rose from
the ground upwards. And in the terrible struggle that followed- because it
was a struggle -the lights were switched off in the gas chambers, It was
dark, no one could see, so the strongest people tried to climb higher.
Because they probably realized that the higher they got, the more air
there was. They could breathe better. That caused the struggle. Secondly,
most people tried to push their way to the door. It was psychological:
they knew where the door was; maybe they could force their way out. It was
instinctive, a death struggle. Which is why the children and weaker
people, and the aged, always wound up at the bottom. The strongest were on
top. Because in a death struggle, a father didn't realize his son lay
beneath him.

"...They fell out. People fell out like blocks of stone, like rocks
falling out of a truck. But near the Zyklon gas there was a void. There
was no one where the gas crystals went in. An empty space. Probably the
victims realized that the gas worked strongest there. The people were
battered. They struggled and fought in the darkness. They were covered in
excrement, in blood, from ears and noses. One also saw that the people
lying on the ground, because of the pressure of others were
unrecognizable. Children had their skulls crushed.

-Fillip Mu"ller, survivor of the five liquidations of the Auschwitz
"special detail." (Lanzmann, _Shoah_, pp.115-116.) 


For those interested in proof of National Alliance member Brian Smith's
(aka "Kurt Stele") rabid anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and
that he possses an IQ of a fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth)
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:09 PST 1996
Article: 83037 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.idt.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why am I not surprised
Followup-To: alt.usenet.kooks
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 08:35:08 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <329d0f9a.3007013@news.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <329d0f9a.3007013@news.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> June 1, 1996: 
> 
> MIAMI -- A Jewish father and son team were convicted of staging hate
> crimes by  defacing a Jewish school's buses to drum up repair work. 

[Mr. Smith's senile Nazi drooling snipped]

A dispicable act indeed. If true. Interesting, is is it not, that Mr.
Smith "forgets" to offer a prope cite so that any who might be interested
could check on its veracity.... 

Given the innumerable whoppers that can be laid at feet of the rabidly
anti-Semitic Nazi Mr. Smith, one can hardly give his rants any credence. 

One can only wonder if Mr. Smith's keepers at the National Alliance
realize he has escaped his padded cell and is skulking about the digital
street corners haranguing passers-by with his insane diatribes? 

For those interested in proof of Mr. Smith's (aka "Kurt Stele") rabid
anti-Semitism, pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a
fence post (not to mention a sewer mouth) please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/smith.brian.r

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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