The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/van-alstine.mark/1996/van-alstine.1096


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 07:50:58 PDT 1996
Article: 70552 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 10:37:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
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In article <52nl6a$o79@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
> >  mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> >  
> > >>>>
>  There
> >  is some evidence to indicate that gassing took place on a limited
> >  scale at Dachau apparently for the the purpose of straight forward
> >  executions and not as part of the extermination plan.
> 
> Would you mind sharing that evidence with us?
> 
> Check out Deja News for my post, Blah blah blaha.  Not a very
> credible witness.

Not a credible post at all, actually, Herr Schwarzesel.... 

> > I know that Kogon, et al., cite Rascher's letter indicating that
> > the gassing equipment had arrived and his proposals for using it
> > to test combat gasses, as well as
> 
> Just in the nick of time, eh?  I believe the alleged gas chamber at Dachau
> was finally finished in late 1944.....when the nazis were supposedly 
> dismantling all the other "extermination" facilities....Guess they wanted the 
> allies to have a little "ammunition" for their announced "war crimes trials".

Are you trying to imply something, Herr Schwarzesel? Like perhaps, as you
speciously intimated in an e-mail to me some time ago, that the gas
chamber in Barracke X at Dachau was an Allied fabrication, maybe? 

[Herr Schwarzesel's absurdities snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 07:50:59 PDT 1996
Article: 70592 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer admits he is dickless
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 16:04:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <52euum$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52fc70$a8@news.enter.net> <52hr63$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52pf52$khq@access5.digex.net>
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In article <52pf52$khq@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <52hr63$r8n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> Matt  Giwer  wrote:
> >       Yes, folks, it is true.  This man has no dick.  
> >
> > As long as there is no penalty he will call names and make allegations,
> >even charge me with criminal activities.  But will dickless file a formal
> >complaint?  No way.  That puts him on the line. 
> 
>     Yes, that's exactly what we all thought about you when you accused
> Gordon McFee of being Marduk and making criminal harrassing phone calls. 
> 
>     Still waiting on that copyright complaint you said you were filing,
> too.
> 
>     Glad to see you agree that you were and are dickless.

What? Did the Giwer-boob get a sex-change operation too? First, H*b*r (aka
Beth) and now the Giwer-boob? Hmm. Sounds like personal problems.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 11:25:42 PDT 1996
Article: 159486 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 11:25:44 PDT 1996
Article: 159576 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 16:33:39 PDT 1996
Article: 70684 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics,alt.conspiracy,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Better dead than alive II
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 08:11:22 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <324c31cc.12442764@news.pacificnet.net> <52q2iv$2c30@piglet.cc.uic.edu> <3250c5bd.29402166@news.srv.ualberta.ca> 
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In article <3250c5bd.29402166@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> Tommy the Terrorist  wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >   As Linda Thompson says...
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DEATH TO THE NEW WORLD
ORDER!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> Linda Thompson also says, "Hey, everybody, let's get our guns and
> march on Washington!  Everybody? Hey? You don't want to march on
> Washington? Fine! Be that way!"

LOL! Poor Linda. All dressed up and nowhere to go.... What a boobette.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 18:27:56 PDT 1996
Article: 70698 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nizkor, why?
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 15:50:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article ,
 wrote:

> As a person who had at least a moderate degree of respect for the
> professionalism that Nizkor presents on their site (though I am on the
> other side of the debate),
> I was shocked to see the sort of degrading (to us all) language that they
> utilize when speaking of Matt Giwer. Why is this?
> I just decided to take a
> look at alt.revisionism for fun, but I think it's time to get out of the
> sandbox. They flinging more than sand at us. 
> 

"Why" you ask, lpauling? Because:

The Giwer-eunuch is, as far as I can determine, a craven anti-Semitic and
racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing
fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has been said
in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims,
pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his
claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel,
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, crude sexism, and has
generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and
factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to
read and respond to him.  For detailed and documented evidence of this,
please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 22:43:38 PDT 1996
Article: 70750 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,talk.rape
Subject: Re: ?
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 16:16:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <52onbd$bta@chaos.dac.neu.edu>, pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu
(Philip Kasiecki) wrote:

> In article ,
> Dave Harman OBC (qut@netcom.com) wrote:
> : In <526r08$2p2@chaos.dac.neu.edu>
> : pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Philip Kasiecki) writes:
> : !     The highest incidence of rape is a Black male raping a Black female.
> : ! There is about equal incidence of White males raping Black females as
> : ! Black males raping White females; the differences are negligible.  The
> : ! smallest incidence is a White male raping a White female.
> : !     In past decades, up until sometime in the seventies, the highest
> : ! incidence of rape was (and by a good margin if my memory is on target) a
> : ! White male raping a Black female.  
> 
> : Why do you say stuff like this?
> 
>     Because it's true?  Unlike you, Harman, I deal in truth.  If you're
> wondering where I got this from, it was mentioned in Frances Cress
> Welsing's book "The Isis Papers: The Keys to the Colors", in an essay on
> the symbolism of rape.  It was written in 1980.  You'd have to ask her
> where she got the numbers.

[snip]

It would indeed be interesting to know where Welsing's numbers came from.
In the BJS report: _Female Victims of Violent Crime_ (NCJ-126826), Table
21. Race of offenders, by race of female victims of rape, 1973-87 it shows
that of single offender rapes that:

Race of           Race of female victim
offender      Total       White       Black

Total         100%         100%        100%

White          60           73           9    
Black          32           20          84
Other           5            5           3*

Number
of rapes  1,927,200    1,514,800    368,100

*Too few cases to obtain a statistically realiable estimate.

It is clear, I believe, from the above numbers that there were 302,960
black on white and 33,129 white on black rapes between 1973 and 1987. That
would imply that for every one white on black rape there was about nine
black on white rapes committed. This "fact," I should note, is typically
taken out of context by the White Power Rangers to support their racist
strawman arguments and bigotry while they intentionally ignore the
further implications of such studies.

It is also clear from the numbers, however, that whites committed the vast
majority of _all_ rapes (1,156,320) between 1973 and 1987. Nearly twice as
many as did blacks (616,704). 

It is also worth note to keep in mind that "[r]apists and their victims
were likely to be of the same race (table 21). In rapes with one offender,
about 7 of every 10 white victims were raped by a white offender, and
about 9 of every ten black victims were raped by a black offender."
[NCJ-126826; p.10]

In addition, "[o]ffenders and victims were more likely to be of the same
race when they knew each other than when they were strangers (table 22
[below]). Of nonstranger rapes 83% involving white victims and 91%
involving black victims were committed by men of the same race; in rapes
by strangers, offenders were of the same race in 60% of the rapes of white
women and in 77% of the rapes of black women." [NCJ-126826; p.10]

In the BJS report: _Female Victims of Violent Crime_ (NCJ-126826), Table
22. Race of offenders, by race of female victims of rape and victim
offender relationship, 1973-87 it shows that:

                                    Race of female victim
Race of              Nonstranger rape                  Stranger rape 
offender      Total   White   Black  Other    Total   White   Black   Other

Total         100%     100%    100%   100%     100%    100%    100%    100%

White          69       83       4     64        51     60      14      51
Black          24        9      91      0        39     30      77      31
Other           6        5       4     36         5      5       3      0
Mixed           2        2       1      0         0      3       2      0

Note: Detail may not add to total because
of rounding and omission of "don't know"
and "not acertained" catagories.

What this seems to mean is that the crime of rape is largely _intra_
racial and is committed, for the most part, by men who _know_ the victims.
(i.e. husbands, ex-husbands, lovers, ex-lovers, friends, co-workers,
relatives, etc.) This is hardly a damming critique of blacks _or_
whites. What it _does_ show, I believe, is that _some_ men, irregardless
of their "race," are simply scumbag sexual predators. 

This, of course, is probably quite disspapointing to, and indicative of
the racist motivations of, the White Power Ranger fruitcakes who would
like to portray the white "race" as somehow being above such things while
villifying and denigrating the the black "race" in the process. 

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:03 PDT 1996
Article: 70759 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - PORNOGRAPHER
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:56:46 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <52779v$3cre@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><52779v$3cre@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <52nih6$o79@juliana.sprynet.com> <52slo8$1soq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <52slo8$1soq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

> :>Well, for all of that it proves nothing of interest....at least not to me.
> 
> All of which means that you make an incorrect point, it is rebutted with
> proof, and you then suddenly lose interest.  Not surprising.

Indeed. Sounds like Herr Schwarzesel suffers from denier "attention
deficit" disorder. Quite common amongst the scumbag Nazi apologist crowd,
I hear....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:04 PDT 1996
Article: 70802 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:05:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
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In article <52t904$i6t@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

[snip]

> >  Like your 'opinion' that the Discovery channel is knowingly misleading the
> >  public by promoting a false figure of the number killed at Auschwitz  ? 
> 
> Another distortion.  What I said was it was IRRESPONSIBLE, whether knowingly
> or unwittingly.  

Really? Did you not write, Herr Schwarzesel, that "...the program
directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately misleading the
public." Did you not also write, Herr Schwarzesel, "Do you admit then,
that the program directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately
misleading the public?" [1]

Well, Herr Schwarzesel, did you? Of _course_ you did. 

> And that is STILL my answer. 

No, Herr Schwarzesel, that is your _packpedaling_ in an attempt to
distance yourself from your scumbag Nazi apologia that "...the program
directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately misleading the
public."

> What's the matter?  Didn't they reply to your enquiry?

Indeed they did, Herr Schwarzesel. When I e-mailed the Discovery Channel
asking if and when they broadcast _Mengele, the man and his crimes_ I
received this reply:

============================================================================
Subject:     Re: (no subject)
Sent:        09/18  10:57 AM
Received:    09/18  10:44 AM
From:        Viewer Relations, Viewer_Relations@discovery.com
To:          Mark Van Alstine, mvanalst@rbi.com

I could not find any program with that title in our database.  If you know the 
date it was aired or a different title please contact us again.

============================================================================

Interesting, wouldn't you say, Herr Schwarzesel? Perhaps _now_ you will
anwser my question about the date you claim that _Mengele, the man and his
crimes_ was broadcast on?

Or is that too much to ask a scumbag Nazi apologist? 

> >  What is your basis for the opinion regarding the Simon Wiesenthal Center ?
> 
> The truth.  Something you know little of.

Considering the above, Herr Schwarzesel, I don't think you should be
braying like an ass about the "truth" just yet. 


Mark


1.

Subject:      More Email from jbelling@sprynet.com or rblackmore@juno.com
From:         rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi)
Date:         1996/08/06
Message-Id:   
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:05 PDT 1996
Article: 70811 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal'
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 21:47:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <3241e9bc.4234058@news.pacificnet.net> <51vf4d$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <324451a5.8164545@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3247ea8f.522336@news.pacificnet.net> <32488f84.18086610@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3251de9f.11578794@199.0.216.204>
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In article <3251de9f.11578794@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >I did deal with the substance of your post. I drew the conclusion that
> >you seem to believe that because the Soviets did not ask technical
> >questions which would have answered the lame objections of denier
> >idiots forty years later the Holocaust must not have happened.
> 
> No, they should have asked them then, in order to see if they
> were getting honest accounts, or to get a more thorough picture. It
> had nothing to do with peoples questions forty years later. It had to
> do with then.

Ah, but such questions _were_ asked back then, Moran. "According to expert
evidence by Dr. Roman Dawidowski, professor at the Academy of Mining and
Metallurgy in Cracow, the average number of bodies cremated within
twenty-four hours in the thirty ovens of the two largest crematoria was
about five thousand. The figure of three thousand could be reached in
smaller Crematories IV and V. This total allows a break of three hours in
every twenty-four hour period to allow for deslagging the generators and
because of other, smaller stoppages caused by constant use. Similar
numbers wer egiven as evidence by eywitness Sonderkommando members Henryk
Tauber and Alter Feinsilber, and also by Stanislaw Kankowski. KL-PMO,
p.134." (_Death Dealer_, p.45fn.) 

[Moranic(tm) drivel snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:05 PDT 1996
Article: 70813 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B @ Belzec
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:55:00 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 142
Message-ID: 
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In article <52rulu$52c@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >Any publication ascribing to be authoritative should be held to high
> >standards. Of course, there the only _real_ way to enforce such "standrds"
> >is for the _authors_ to be experts in their fields and to have their
> >published works reviewed by their academic peers. What are the academic
> >qualificatons of Mr. and Mr. Edelheit? What other works of theirs have
> >been peer reviewed and published? What academic scrutiny was their
> >"handbook" subjected to? 
> OK.

OK? _History of the Holocaust: A Handbook and Dictionary_ was submitted to
"OK" for review? Other works of the Edelheits' were submitted to "OK" for
review? 

Or do you mean you don't know to whom the book was submitted to for
review? Or even _if_ it was? 

BTW, are either of the Edelheits academically credentialed? If so, in what
field? 

[snip]

> >As to the book being "obviously wrong when it says that Zyklon B was used at 
> >Belzec," I agree 100 perent. As to your selecting _one_ rather obscure
> >"handbook," authored by two rather obscure authors, and then claiming that
> >"consistency" is proven to be "elusive" is simply you being disingenous. 
> 
> I'm glad you agree. 
> Obscure?  

Yes. Obscure. As in not well-known or famous. 

> I go to the library, grab some books, and read them.  

A worthwhile undertaking, IMHO. 

> I look for consistencies and inconsistencies in relation to other books I've
> read. 

But do you _understand_ what you read? Do you understand well enough to
know when a book is accurate and when it is not? Or do you simply crack
open books on the Holocaust to look for nits to pick? 

> I did not say: proven. 

My apologies. 

I said: consistency is_ proving_ to be elusive, and it is.  

No, Mr. Carpenter, it is not. You rumage through the library to find _one_
book  that is contradicted by many others and you say "Eureka! The
Holocaust is _proving_ to be inconsistant!" and we should be impresed with
you? 

I think not.

> Many books have _major_  inconsistencies pertaining to
> basic questions such as: the use of Zyklon B at Belzec. 

Many book, Mr. Carpenter? Major inconsistencies? Perhaps you would care to
list fifty well-known books on the Holocaust that have major
inconsistancies and explain _why_ they are inconsistant? 

> When I find  glaring mistakes,  that book gets eliminated as a
> reference source.

Oh, I see- the "toss the baby out with the bathwater" approach to history.
A favorite denier tactic, btw.

> Last time. I am saying, to anyone who reads the post, that I had
> located a book which gives facts that are inconsistent with
> 'mainstream' writings.  

Mr. Carpenter, in your origional post you simply said, "Consistency is
proving to be elusive." Now you are amending this to being inconsistant
with mainstream writings? Out of curiosity, Mr. Carpenter, what other
inconsistancies does this book contain? As you so readily "eliminated"
this book it must certainly be chocked full of them, yes? Perhaps you
could list a dozen or so of the most brazen inconsistancies with
mainstream writings? And _why_ they are inconsistant, of course. 

> Hopefully readers would make a l note regarding that particular book  and its 
> suitability as a research source. 

Hopefully readers will also be aware of your ulterior motives for erecting
this strawman of yours.... 

> Blind conclusions? Jumped at?   NOT.

Really? Fooled me, Mr. Carpenter.

> This has nothing to do with the historical record either.  

Agreed. Your strawman has nothing to do with the historical record. 

> >That, Mr. Carpenter, is called falling prey to the fallacy observational
> >selectivity. So much for your "research" (and analytical) skills, then,
> >Mr. Carpenter. That is, of course, assuming that you actually _intended_
> >to research anything instead of simply "confirming" your own prejudices? 
> 
> You are free to assume anything you wish, but that does not make it
> accurate.  Don't worry, when I get to the revisionists' story, I will
> still be looking for consistencies and inconsistencies.

Oh goodie! That should keep you busy for several years at least. It has for me. 

> >> Before I respond to a post,  I try my best to understand it first. 
> 
> >Then, I suggest you try a little harder, Mr. Carpenter.
> 
> Like I said: I always do my best.

Your best is all one can ask for, Mr. Carpenter. However, sometimes one's
"best" simply isn't good enough....

[snip]

> We both agree that there was _no_ Zyklon used at Belzec.

Yes.

> We also agree that the book is in error on this point.

Yes. Assuming, of course, that it says Zyklon B was used for homicidal gassings.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:06 PDT 1996
Article: 70820 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 05:06:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <52tk0f$mi5@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> For once I see that you are full of a substance that stinks as well as lacking
> in personal integrity.  The Malmedy confessions were obtained by torture, and
> that is a fact.  I'll embarrass you in the eyes of the public with them later.


Herr Schwarzesel,  rather than wait (forever) for you to apply your meager
intellect to to the task, I thought I'd offer a little help to get you
started: 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/c/clay.lucius/on-torture-at-dachau

Be sure to wipe your chin after eating your crow-pie, Herr Schwarzesel.
Having shit dribble down your chin is so unseemly.... 

Or is that too much to ask of a scumbag Nazi apologist? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 08:17:07 PDT 1996
Article: 70821 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 22:06:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <52duo7$lcm@news.enter.net><52duo7$lcm@news.enter.net> <52na4l$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com> <52sljt$1soq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <52sljt$1soq@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[Herr Schwarzesel's scumbag Nazi apologia snipped]

> Please stop such irrelevant claptrap.  If you want to say you idolize Kramer,
> please say it and stop with these puerile and infantile games.

Of _course_ Herr Schwarzesel idolizes Kramer -he's a scumbag Nazi
apologist after all! He first he tries to white-wash Streicher, then
Go"ring, and now Kremer. Any bets as to when he starts white-washing
Hitler? 

And, of course, the only reason Herr Schwarzesel poo-poos Ho"ss is because
Ho"ss _admitted_ that he was responsible for the mass murder of over a
millin people! Kinda hard to white-wash _that_ when the scumbag Nazi who
did it _freely_ admittted he did it.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 10:49:41 PDT 1996
Article: 159682 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,talk.rape
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 10:49:43 PDT 1996
Article: 159692 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
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Control: cancel 
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 10:54:19 PDT 1996
Article: 70864 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 20:00:22 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 118
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References:  <52sjbt$mr0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <52sjbt$mr0@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on
>  26 Sep 1996 
>      CEACAA wrote
> >> I was wondering if Mr. Van Alstine could help
> >> the readers of this thread with a synopsis of
> >> the story of the "Sondercommandos":  How many,
> >> what they were supposed to have done, etc.
> >> However, since we want to do more than just
> >> spin baseless stories, would Mr. Van Alstine
> >> fill in the details of were all these "Sondercommandos"
> >> slept, ate, bathed, etc. 
> >>    We can all check the stories against the blue prints
> >> of the Cremas, which were part of the masses of
> >> documents the Germans left.
> 
> >After you, Mr. Allen. Care to give it a go? 
> >I'm sure I'll have _plenty_ to
> >criticize regarding your typically abysmal "research."
> 
>  If you are sure you'll "have plenty
> to criticize" why not just honesty write what you
> feel is the true story and have done with it? 

Because, Mr. Allen, I would like to criticize what _you_ write. 

>  Since you are the one who advocates belief in 
> Exterminationism, you should present your own views.

It's called History, Mr. Allen. If one wishes to better understand what I
believe about the Holocaust, one need only read the works of the plethora
of historians and Holocaust researchers who have written and researched
the Holocuast. 

> It is hard for a non-believer to do.  

That's _your_ problem, Mr. Allen. 

> As Pressac writes,  "The tendency to turn the history of the camp 
> into legend was very strong indeed in the 50's..."

So? 

> Of course, my "research" consists of having visited 
> the site and having an idea of what is actually
> there at the "scene of the crime".

So you say. Why don't you write a paper about you "findings" and submit it
to a peer reviewed historical journal? 


> There is NO possibility that 1,000 men condemed
> to death worked and lived in the Crema II and III.

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 


> The security was low.  

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 


> There was not enough space for sleeping, eating, or bathrooms.  

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 

> Of course, SHM also has a foundry, a carpentry shop,
> a dissecting room, a room for a doctor or two,
> some SS guards, storage rooms, and a few other
> uses all crammed into the two Cremas.  

So? 

> This is on top of storage of all the coal, the undressing room,
> and the alleged gaschamber.

So? 

>           The Revolt of the Sondercommandos 
> 
>       The whole story of the "Revolt of the 
> Sondercommandos" is entirely a legend.

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 

>      None of the Cremas show any sign of 
> having been the site of gun battles.  

Oh, please, Mr. Allen. It hurts to watch you grasp at straws so. The
Kremas were demolished by the Nazis with explosives. 

> There are no bullet marks on any of the ruins of Crema II or III
> nor on any of the bricks that remain from the 
> walls of Crema IV or V.   

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 

> Since the legend (or legends) have Sondercommando revolts occuring at 
> different Cremas at different times and in different degrees of
> intensity of fighting it's rather hard to disprove all 
> the legends at once.  However, the stories of prolonged
> gun battles at Crema II or III are not supported by any
> physical signs on the existing ruins.

Prove it. So far you offered nothing but specious claims and poor "analysis." 

Until then, Mr. Allen, you're wasting my time with your nonsense.  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  2 12:20:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Response to "Teapot Tempest"...Jews the children of "satin"?
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 22:18:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <52qsul$6eq@news.ios.com> <52sj8t$dev@news.enter.net> 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52sj8t$dev@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   Dan Cook  writes:
> >   I think you, Mr. Schoedel were always a fraud, your so called White 
> >  supremist board gave prace to Scofiels and had an Biblica interpitation 
> >  staight from the Talmud. I think Winston is talking abut you in his News 
> >  Letter when He mentioned a traitor.
> 
>  Moran himself could not have said it better.
> 
> I am tempted to send this to William Safire but he would think someone is 
> pulling his leg.

LOL! Oh, Lordie! SEND IT! SEND IT! He _will_  get a laugh from it! };->

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:08 PDT 1996
Article: 71135 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Big Gas Chamber
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:07:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 85
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References: <52touq$rns@lex.zippo.com>
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In article <52touq$rns@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> The book I'm currently reading describes a gas chamber that can
> kill 3,000 people within five minutes.  
> The following quotes come from pages 156-156 of: Approaches to 
> Auschwitz, by Rubenstein & Roth.
> 
>         . . . . The prisoners were then taken to a huge underground
>         room two hundred yards long. . . . . In this room at thirty-yard
>         intervals were columns of sheet iron pipes with many perforations.
>         Within five minutes, three thousand people were dead.  Twenty
>         minutes later the ventilators had evacuated the gas. . . . . Before
>         cremation, hair was removed as was gold from the victims' teeth.
>         The yield in gold was between eighteen and twenty pounds a day. [1]
> 
> MVA Clairification:
> 
> This book contains information which is untrue.  
>         i.     gassing chambers were not that big.
>         ii.     hair was removed before gassing.
> 
> Therefore: this book should not to be considered a suitable reference
> source for those people studying the Holocaust. 
>                 
>         [1]     Rubenstein, Richard L. and  Roth, John K., Approaches
>                 to Auschwitz - The Holocaust and its Legacy. Atlanta:
>                 John Knox Press, 1987.


Tsk tsk, Mr. Carpenter. You by chance didn't forget to mention that maybe
the authors were using Dr. Myklos Niszli, a prisoner doctor, and Mengele's
assistant, at Auschwitz as their primary source, did you? 

"The room into which the convoy proceeded was about 200 yards long: its
walls were whitewashed and it was brightly lit....There were 3,000 people
in the room: men, women and children....This second room was the same size
as the first, but neither benches nor pegs were to be seen. In the center
of the rooms, at thirty-yard intevals, columns rose from the concrete
floot to the ceiling. They were not supporting columns, but square
sheet-iron pipes, the sides of which contained numerous perforations like
a wire lattice....He opened the contents and poured the contents- a mauve
granulated material -into the opening. The granulated substance fell in a
lump to the bottom. The gas it produced escaped through the perforations,
and within a few seconds filled the room in which the deportees were
stacked. Within five minutes everybody was dead....Twenty minutes later
the electric ventilators were set going in order to evacuate the
gas....Hair was also a precious material...so they shaved the dead...Gold
is a heavy metal, and I would judge that 18 to 20 pounds of it were
collected daily in each crematorium...." (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.49-51.) 

Sure sounds like Nysizli, doesn it, Mr. Carpenter? Of course, Nyiszli, who
was an eyewitness, got a few things wrong. Like the dimensions of the
L.Kellers and the spacing between the Zyklon B introduction columns, ect.
Probably the number of victims per gassing too. (Though a few gassings
involving 2,500-3,000 _did_ likely happen.) 

But all in all, Mr. Carpenter, Nyiszli wasn't wrong on the important
parts. Most importantly, though, Mr. Carpenter, it is knowing the proper
contexts such eyewitness testimony should be taken in. It also helps to
cross-reference the details. Like, for instance, referencing Pressac's
_Technique_, which contains photos of the Bauleitung construction drawings
for Krema II and its L.Kellers, to ascertain the correct dimensions of the
L.Kellers. It helps put things in their proper perspective. 

Research is all, Mr. Carpenter. You should try it some time. 


BTW, Mr. Carpenter, the hair of the victims was cut both before and after
gassings depending on period. During Aktions Ho"ss, for instance, when
nearly 400,000 Hungarian Jews were murdered in less than three months, the
(female) victims' hair wash shorn _after_ they were gassed to death.
Earlier, in 1943, victims had their heads shaved _before_ they were
murdered. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:09 PDT 1996
Article: 71173 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Statistics, Statistics, dammed lies
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 00:24:27 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

[snip]

> It is therefore totally impossible to believe that these figures ever
> came from SS Obersturmbannfurhrer Karl Eichmann, especially when he was
> at the Wannsee Conference, and who headed a department dealing with the
> evaculation of the Jews. 

[snip]

Interesting, is it not, Mr. Stumpy, that when asked about the deportation
of Jews from Western and Eastern Europe Eichmann replied, "...Of course I
haven't the faintest idea how many were evacuated from these countries,
how many shipments were sent out...."  (_Eichmann Interrogated_, p.74.) 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:09 PDT 1996
Article: 71178 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 00:30:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com>
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In article <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

[snip]

> Chuck, you have alot of books, can you tell me if the Zyklon B
> retained the blue color after use?  Thanks.

Why, Mr. Carpenter? Are you going to claim it was mauve or something? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:10 PDT 1996
Article: 71184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.fan-enst-zundel
Subject: Re: Wison from Winston
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:29:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 20
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References: <52ng60$7dl@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <52o5sq$9i9@news.ios.com> <324FC94C.7204@ccnis.net> <52p0gt$l5l@btc1.up.net> <52qsul$6eq@news.ios.com> <32513ABB.21D3@ccnis.net> <52scgm$lui@btc1.up.net> <52tepv$ln9@news.ios.com> 
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In article
,
Kimberley Ahlf  wrote:

> You seem to have miss-spelled the Subject tile.  I believe it should have
> been:
> 
> "Wizzin' from Winston"

Or "Winnie wizzes"

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 71187 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!newshost.convex.com!news.onramp.net!newshost.cyberramp.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: speaking of dickless
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 01:13:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
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In article <52uf9g$mr2@newshub.atmnet.net>, frice@stbbs.com (Fredric L.
Rice) wrote:

> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> 
> >Dickless has publically charged that I am a criminal.
> 
> Have any evidence for this one?

That the Giwer-eunuch is dickless? (As well as having no balls.) Sure: 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 08:37:12 PDT 1996
Article: 71194 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 02:11:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References: <3252d3f4.19985966@news.spry.com> <52vq8l$gs4@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52vq8l$gs4@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@veritas.nizkor.org (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  On Wed, 02 Oct 1996 04:05:26 -0800, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
> >  wrote:
> >  
> >  >In article <52t904$i6t@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  >
> >  >> >   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >  >
> >  >[snip]
> >  >
> >  >> > Like your 'opinion' that the Discovery channel is knowingly 
> >  >> > misleading the public by promoting a false figure of the 
> >  >> > number killed at Auschwitz  ? 
> >  >> 
> >  >> Another distortion.  What I said was it was IRRESPONSIBLE, whether 
> >  >> knowingly or unwittingly.  
> >  >
> >  >Really? Did you not write, Herr Schwarzesel, that "...the program
> >  >directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately misleading the
> >  >public." Did you not also write, Herr Schwarzesel, "Do you admit then,
> >  >that the program directors of the Discovery Channel are deliberately
> >  >misleading the public?" [1]
> >  >
> >  >Well, Herr Schwarzesel, did you? Of _course_ you did. 
> >  
> >  Mark. You caught Herr Belling in a lie? How very unsurprising!
> >  
> >  
> I don't need you to answer for me, Kennie.  I did indeed write that. 
> What of it?  

What of it indeed, Herr Schwarzesel! The "what of it" is that you are a
_lying_ scumbag Nazi apologist. A _self-admitted_ l lying scumbag Nazi
apologist. 

> If they do air the program and they give a false number
> of 4.5 million dead at Auschwitz, someone soemwhere is deliberately
> misleading the public. 

And your _proof_ of this, Herr Schwarzesel, is?  So far, when Mr. Gandi
has prodded you to supply this proof that the Discovery Channel
_deliberately_ promulmugated this with the intention to decieve the public
you ran away like a whipped dog with your tail tucked firmly between your
legs. 

> You do it all the time. I couldn't tell even a 
> million lies to equal the lie you propound daily on this USENET 
> site..

A million lies, Herr Schwarzesel? Tut tut. Perhaps you would care to list
a hundred or so of these "lies" -with irrefutable proof? 

Or is that too much to ask a _lying_ scumbag Nazi apologist such as yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 12:06:08 PDT 1996
Article: 71202 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 02:26:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <52tqmo$os4@news.enter.net> <52vedq$91f@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <52vedq$91f@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> > >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> > > For once I see that you are full of a substance that stinks as well as 
> > > lacking in personal integrity. The Malmedy confessions were obtained by 
> > > torture, and that is a fact. I'll embarrass you in the eyes of the 
> > > public with them later.
> >  
> >  he charges of torture at the Malmedy trial were thoroughly disproved.  
> >  Clay states this.  The Simpsom report states this.  Extensive hearing 
> >  before the Senate establish this.
> >  
> >  You are lying.
>
> You are in error, as usual.

As to who is in error here (and it isn't Mr. Edeiken) I would offer Clay's
words: 

"A number of the death sentences on the Dachau trials were handed down
before I assumed command but execution was stayed pending the hearing of a
petition in the Supreme Court. When the petition for review was denied
decision rested in my hands. It was then that I asked for an independent
review which led to the appointment of the Simpson Commission by the
Department of the Army. This commission and my own Administration of
Justice Review Board found that improper methods had been used to obtain
evidence in the Malmedy case. Members of the prosecution staff testified
to the use of stage settings, stool pigeons, and similar measures to
extract evidence. Extreme brutalities claimed by the prisoners, in
manifest self-interest, were denied by the prosecution staff and not borne
out by other evidence. While any use of improper methods was to be
deplored, the Army had been shocked beyond measure at the cold-blooded
murder of our soldiers at Malmedy. When after months of search among
German prisoners the members of the Storm Troop units responsible were
picked up, it was found that they had been sworn to silence and this
silence was difficult to break. They were the tough, hard-bitten fanatics
of Nazism, and I could understand, if not condone, the treatment they
received. Although certain of their guilt, I felt I must disapprove the
death penalty unless there was evidence other than that of witnesses
claiming that their confessions were extorted under force and duress."
(Clay, _Decision in Germany_, p.253.)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 12:06:09 PDT 1996
Article: 71219 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.lava.net!coconut!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!in-news.erinet.com!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why is Giwer such a puppet?
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 02:31:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:    <324ba80c.53567269@news.srv.ualberta.ca>  <52rr9n$t8o@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <52vc6u$sae@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <52vc6u$sae@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> The title says it all.  Why is Giwer such a puppet, such an easily manipulated
> little toy?  Why does he allow himself to be made such a fool of--and so
> easily too--by Alec and Mike and Bill and Sara and Ken and Mark and...well,
> you know.... EVERYONE?!
> 
> Is he just plain stoopid?  Is it hereditary?  Is it contagious?
> 
> Why are he and Moron suddenly so close to each other?  Are they lonely?

Uh, because the Giwer-eunuch is fixated on Moran's loins? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 21:26:18 PDT 1996
Article: 71454 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Einsatzgruppen Reports - OSR USSR #45
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 10:59:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5302jq$kvr@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >>   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  >>  The Chief of the Security Police and the SD
> >    
> >  >>  Berlin, August 7, 1941
> >   
> >  >Your point?
> >  
> >  Jews were specially singled out for execution.
> >  
> >  Reprisal killings are war crimes.
> >  
> >  --
> >   John Morris                               
> >   at University of Alberta     
> >  -- 
> >  The Nizkor Project     | http://www.nizkor.org/
> >  
> >>>>
> Then why did the French announce in 1945:  if any Germans were caught 
>committing acts of resistance against the French occupation army, that 10
>Germans would be shot for every Frenchman killed?  

And the source of this "claim," Herr Schwarzesel, is? 

(Sotto voce: The Discovery Channel?) 

As importantly, Herr Schwarzesel, _did_ the "French occupation army,"
after catching any Germans "committing acts of resistance" shoot ten
Germans for "every Frenchman killed?" 

Well, Herr Schwarzesel, _did_ they? 

Or is an answer too much to ask a lying scumbag Nazi apologist such as
yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 21:26:19 PDT 1996
Article: 71464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Auschwitz evidence?
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 1996 23:15:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 494
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References: <32527619.2343924@199.0.216.204>
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In article <32527619.2343924@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

Here we have yet another brazen example of Holocaust denial by Moran. His
specious claims, half-truths, and outright lies are presented for no other
reason than the malicious distortion of the historical record to disparge
the Holocaust and its victims. Such puerile tactics are the stock-in-trade
of Holocuast deniers, Nazi apologists, and anti-Semites like Moran.

> The Holocaust story has it that the Germans systematically
> entered into a demolition phase of various crematoriums to cover up
> the alleged Holocaust crimes.

The Nazis systematically attempted to erase the evidence of their
genocide. The Nazis did this in connection with Aktion 1005 at the
extermination camps of Auschwitz II-Birkenau, Belzac, Chelmno, Sobibor,
and Treblinka. (cf. _Historical Atlas of the Holocaust_, pp.76-102.) 

However, unlike the other extermination camps, the evidence of genocide at
Auschwitz II-Birkenau and Majdanek were not completely erased because they
were abandoned in the face of the rapidly advancing Red Army. At Birkenau
the SS, who had been methodically dismantling Kremas II and III since
November 1944 (Krema IV was demolished in October), hastily dynamited them
along with Krema V and set fire to the storage barracks, where the plunder
of the victims was kept, before fleeing. 

> The gassings are said to have ceased in late summer or early fall
> 1944.

Yes. November 1944. 

> The only remaining photograph, today, as evidence of this alleged
> program is a picture of some collapsed concrete, said to have been
> Crema II. This is the only photo presented by the Holocaust
> promotional network.

This is incorrect. There were _numerous_ (surviving) photos taken of the
Kremas during their construction by the Auschwitz Bauleitung. Not to
mention there are also photos of deportees undergoing "selection" on the
ramp, women being driven naked into the gas chambers of Krema V, and of
the bodies of the gassed victims being burned in an incineration pit, etc.
(cf. Sweibocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_.)  

> Yet even the Holocaust story has it that the Germans were engaged
> in a general dismantling program of the camp.

The Nazis, began the dismantling of Kremas II and II in late 1944. Krema
IV was gutted in the Sonderkommando revolt and subsequently demolished in
late 1944. Kremas II, III, and V were demolished in January 1945. (See
below.) 

> In an Allied aerial photo of the camp, 1/14/45 we can see that
> parts of the camp are missing when compared to other Allied aerial
> photos.

Yes. One can also see that Kremas II and III were being dismantled, and
that Krema IV was demolished. 

> A good part of Monowitz (industrial sector) are missing and about 8
barracks in the 
> women's camp are either missing or in some other state than the rest.

The I.G. Farben complex at Monowitz was bombed several times by the USAAF:

"According to the interpretation of aerial photographs taken during the
[September 13, 1944] raid, 'only slight damage' was done, mostly to the
'small stores, buildings and labour barracks'. Two buildings in the
'concentration camp' were seen also to have been hit." (Gilbert,
_Auschwitz and the Allies_, p.316.) During the raid some 300 slave
laborers were injured. (cf. Ibid. p.315.) 

An air photo of the December 21, 1944, raid against the I.G. Farben
complex at Monowitz also shows bomb damage to buildings. (cf. Ball, _Air
Photo Evidence_, p.75.) 

Is Moran claiming that, rather than suffering from bomb damage, this "good
part" of the "Monowitz (industrial sector)" was "missing" because it was
part of the Nazi attempt to erase the evidence of their genocide at
Birkenau, which was some five miles away? 

Or is Moran is simply being disingenous here in trying to "prove" that the
Nazis were "dismantling" _all_ the Auschwitz camps (i.e. I-III), when, in
fact, they never attempted any such thing?  By attempting this he appears
to be trying support his specious claim that the Kremas weren't homicidal
installations and the demolishing of the Kremas were simply a part of some
sort of overall "dismantling" process the Nazis undertook for unspecifed
reasons.  

Unfortunately, for Moran, there was no grand Nazi "dismantling" program.
The Nazis _weren't_ trying to dismantle I.G. Farben's synthetic oil plant
at Monowitz, which cost some 700 million RM. Nor were the Nazis
dismantling Auschwitz III (Monowotz) or Auschwitz I. Just the Kremas at
Birkenau. 

Interesting, is is not, that the _only_ camp where any dismantling took
place was the where systematic mass murder took place? Interesting, is is
not, that at the _other_ Nazi extermination camps the erasure of the
evidence of systematic Nazi mass murder _also_ took place? 

> An arrow in the photo points to an empty area where the arrow
> caption states "Gas Chamber IV, Destroyed 7 OCT 1944".

Yes. Krema IV was set afire and gutted during the Sonderkommando revolt
and later demolished. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.239.)

>Yet Cremas II, III and V are shown to be intact 1/14/45.

This is incorrect. Kremas II and III were dismantled. Only their shells
were partially intact:

"In photographs taken by a further United States photographic
reconnaisance on December 21, the sole aim of which was to show the extent
of the damage at Monowitz during the bombing raid three days before, many
of the electrified fences and guard towers of Birkenau [Mexico] can now be
seen to have been dismantled. At Crematorium II the undressing room roof
adjacent to the gas chamber had been removed, and the roof and chimney of
the Crematorium itself were in the process of being dismantled. The fences
around the Crematorium can also be seen to have been removed. Around
Crematorium III the fences are also gone, and the whole building
surrounded by debris..." (_Auschwitz and the Allies_, p.332)

"On January 14 the United States Air Force flew its twelfth photographic
reconnaisance flight over Monowitz. Once more, all of Auschwitz and all of
Birkenau were included. Studying the photographs today, the continuing
dismantling of the gas chambers and crematoria is evident...." (Ibid.
p.334)

> This would be just days before the Soviet advance would reach the
> camp.

And? 

> The record of the war would show that Germans would have had to
> recognize the inevitable over run by the Allied forces by the date
> 1/14/45 and even months before that.

The Nazis, in particular Himmler, may well have recognized this. Himmler
ordered a halt to mass homicidal gassings in early November 1944 and the
demolition of the Kremas on November 25, 1944. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_,
p.174.)  Yet Auschwitz wasn't _evacuated_ until January 17, 1945, which
argues that the actual abandonment of Auschwitz, done in haste, was
ill-prepared. (See below.) 

> Holocaust facts, and perhaps non-Holocaust facts, have it that the
Germans began to evacuate 
> the camp for the most part weeks before 1/14/45. 

This is incorrect. The _evacuation_ of Auschwitz complex _began_ on
January 17, 1945, as can be seen in the _Auschwitz Chronicle 1939-1945_,
pp.782-805:

January 17 [1945]

Units of the Red Army advance on outlying areas of Krako'w from the north
and northwest and suprise the German positions, which do not expect an
attack from this flank. At 12 o'clock the last official meeting of
Governor Hans Frank takes place, at which he declares that Krako'w, a
German city since earliest times, could never be surrendered by the
Germans. At 2:00 P.M he leavces Krako'w in the direction of Silesia. A
vigorous Russian air attack on the retreating columns of the military and
administrative personnel, whose departure from Krako'w increasingly takes
on the character of a flight, begins at 2:30 P.M.

[...]

The male and female prisoners fall in for their last role call. The number
of prisoners of the individual camps and auxiliary camps is as follows:

Babitz                       159 male prisoners
Budy                         313 male prisoners
Plawny                       138 male prisoners
Birkenau Production area     204 male prisoners
Auschwitz main camp       10,030 male prisoners
Birkenau men's camp        4,473 male prisoners
                          ----------------------
                          15, 317 male prisoners

Auschwitz women's camp     6,196 female prisoners
Birkenau women's camp     10,381 female prisoners
                          ----------------------
                   Total  31,894 male and female prisoners

In the wake of the decision to remove the prisoners from Auschwitz,
Commandant Baer personally chooses the leaders of the evacuation columns
>from  among the members of the guard companies and orders them to liquidate
ruthlessly all prisoners who attempt to escape during the evacuatyion or
drag their feet.

The prisoners Jo'zef Cyrankiewicz and Stanislaw Klodin'ski write in their
last report to Tersa Lasocka and Edward Halon of PWOK in Krakow:

   My dear Ones! We are now experiancing the evacuation. Chaos. Panic among 
   drunken SS. We are trying with all political means to make the departure 
   as tolerable as possible and to protect from extermination the invalids 
   allegedly remaining behind. These objectives were- and possibly are 
   -entirely clear. The march goes first in the direction of Bielsko. Later, 
   a part is going toward the Sudenten (Leitmeritz), another part toward 
   Gross_Rosen. The only train is taking the less seriously ill to Hannover.
   The intentions change from hour to hour, since they have no idea what 
   orders they will recieve. Radio propaganda is necessary. This type of 
   evacuation means the extermination of t least half the prisoners. A check
   by the Red Cross is necessary and, in the period of the "interregnum" in
   the camp is indispensible, so that some special commando of the SS doesn't 
   simply wipe out the sick... We also enclose a number of documents.

In the auxillary camps that belong to Monowitz, formerly Auschwitz III,
are the following numbers of male prisoners:

Monowitz (buna works)              10,223
Golleschau                          1,008
Jawischowitz (Jawiszowice)          1,988
Eintrachu"tte (Swietochlowice)      1,297
Neu-Dachs (Jaworzno)                3,664
Blechhammer (Blachowina)            3,958
Fu"rstengrube (Wesola)              1,283
Gute Hoffnung (Janinagrube, Libiaz    853
Bru"nn (Brno)                          36
Gleiwitz I                          1,336           
Gleiwitz II                           740         
Gleiwitz III                          609
Gleiwitz IV                           444
Laurhu"tte (Siemianowice)             937
Sosnowitz                             836
Bobrek                                213
Trzebinia                             641
Althammer (Stara Kuz'nia)             486
Tschechowitz-Dziedzitz                561
Charlottengrube (Rydultowy)           833
Hindenburg (Zabrze)                    70
Bismarckhu"tte (Hajduki)              192
Hubertushu"tte (Lagiewniki)           202
                                   ______
                            Total  33,023

[...]

The prisoner physicians in Monowitz recieve the order to carefully examine
the health conditions of the sick and to remove all those able to march
>from  the hospital records. Only the seriously ill may remain behind, under
the supervision of doctors who are ill and unable to march.

January 18 ]1945]

[...]

The departure of the female prisoners from the Birkenau women's camp
begins towards morning. At short intervals columns of 500 women and
children each leave the camp, escorted by SS men. A total of 5,345 female
prisoners leave the camp on this day, among them 176 from Plasz'ow, 1,169
>from  Camp B-IIc, and 4,000 from Camps B-IIb and B-IIe. They are taken to
Auschwitz and wait there fro the formation of the evacuation columns.
$,428 female prisoners, women and girls, and 169 bosys remain in the
women's infirmary B-IIe.

[...]

Columns of prisoners leave Birkenau at specific intervals. The last
column, with approximately 1,500 prisoners, leaves Camp B-IId in the
afternoon. 400 prisoners join this column to escape being liquidated in
the camp. Among them are some youthful prisoners from the Penal Company,
70 prisoners from the crematorium demolition squad, and 30 prisoners from
the Special Squad, who take advantage of an ungaurded moment in
Crematorium V to join the march. The route of this column leads through
Auschwitz, Rajsko, Brzeszcze, Go'ra, Miedz'na, C'wiklice, Pszczyna,
Koblielice, Kryry, Suszec, Rudziczka, Kleszczo'w, Zory, Rogoz'ne, Ro'j,
Rybnik, S'wierklany Dolne, and Marklowice to Wodzislaw in Silesia.

In the evening the female prisoners in the Auschwitz womens's camp are
formed into columns. Together with the female prisoners who have arrived
>from  Birkenau they are driven in the direction of Rajsko. The female
prisoners of the gardening and plant-breeding squads from the Rajsko A.C.
join the procession of the male and female prisoners evacuated from
Auschwitz-Birkenau and bring up the rear. They march through the
communities of Pszczyna, Poreba Wielka, and Jastrzebie Go'rne to Wodzislaw
in Silesia. Only Eugenia Halbreich (No. 29700), who had hidden herself in
the attic of an addition next to the house of SS man Grell, remains in the
Rajsko A.C.

All the prisoners of Monowitz A.C., the camp near the I.G. Farben works,
are assembled on the parade ground in the evening. They are formed into
columns of 1,000 prisoners each. Divisions of nurses are placed among the
individual columns. The march leads through Bierun', Mikolo'w, Mokre
Slaskie, and Przyszowice to Gleiwitz. 850 sick prisoners remain in the
prisoners' infirmary, among them the assistant doctor and 18 doctors,
including Dr. Czeslaw Jaworski.

[...]

January 19 [1945]

The last large transport with 2,500 prisoners leaves the Auschwitz main
camp at 1:OO A.M. under the supervision of SS First Lieutenant Wilhelm
Reischenbeck. Near Rajsko the last column joins up with 1,000 prisoners
>from  Birkenau. Behind the village of Brzeszcze the procession joins with a
column of 1,948 prisoners from the Jawischowitz A.C. A good dozen
prisoners who are sick and unable to march remain behind in Jawischowitz.
The route of this last, very large column of prisoners is led to Wodzislaw
in Silesia through the following villages: Rajsko, Go'ra, Miedz'na,
C'wiklice, Pszczyna, Poremba, Brzeszcze, Studzionka, Bzie, Pawlowice,
Jastrzebie, Mszana, and Wilchwy. During the march the columns of prisoners
combine to form a large unit. On the march route and at the side of the
road lie the corpses of the prisoners from the preceding columns who have
been shot and killed. A prisoners from Posen counts 114 corpses. After the
arrival in Wodzislaw the prisoners are loaded into open freight cars and
transferred to Mauthausen. The transport arrives there on January 26.

[...]

At 4:00 A.M. the last group with 30 prisoner functionaries leaves
Auschwitz. They arrive in Wodzislaw in Silesia on January 22, just as the
prisoners in the last of the columns, which left the camp several hours
before them, are being loaded into the open freight cars. 

A renewed Allied air attack on the I.G. Farben works in Dwory near
Auschwitz takes place in the morning hours. As a result, the water and
electric services are cut off in the town of Auscwitz and in the camps.
Only prioners unable to march and a good dozen prisoners who are caring
for the sick are still in Auschwitz-Birkenau and Monowitz. 

> This would support the notion the Germans had recognized the
> inevitable defeat and over running by the advancing Soviet forces.   

Considering that the Red Army had been on the offensive since 1943, it
would be hard _not_ to see the writintg on the wall (cf. Cooper, _The
German Army 1933-1945_, pp.451-452). But that by no means implies that the
Germans were _prepared_ for the evacuatiom of the Auschwitz complex on
Janusry 17, 1945. 

Consider the following: On January 9 Guderian warned Hitler because the
German forces on the Eastern Front were to spread out, and that the
reserves were to small for such a large front, that the Eastern Front was
"like a house of cards. If the front is broken through at one point, all
the rest will collapse." Hitler, ignoring Guderian's advice to consolidate
and reinforce German forces, replied that the Eastern Front "must help
itself and make do with what it's got." (cf. Ibid p.479.) When the Janaury
12, 1945, Soviet offensive from the Vistula was unleashed on the German
central front, Guderian's dire warning came true: The front collapsed. 

In this light it is then arguable that the Janaury 12 Soviet offensive-
and the subsequent collapse of the Eastern Front -through the Germans- and
any  plans of methodical evacuation of the Auschwitz complex -into
complete disarray. 

> So why hadn't the Germans dismantled the Cremas II, III and V by
> 1/14/45?

They tried, as can be seen by the following chain of events (_Auschwitz
Chronicles, pp.731-805):

"October 14 [1944] ...The Special Squad begins to break up the walls of
Crematorium IV, which was destroyed during the uprising [on October 7]"

"December 1 [1944] ...The Crematorium III demolition squad is created in
Birkenau. It consists of 100 female prisoners whorked on the demolition of
the crematorium.... At the same time a squad of male prisoners is put
together for the demolition of the crematorium. The number of persons in
it is unknown. The prisoners have to pound holes in the walls of the gas
chambers for placement od dynamite charges (APMO, Dpr-Hd/3, p.134,
Statements of former Female Prisoner Stanislawa Rachawalowa).

"December 5 [1944] ...The women's squad employed in dismantling
Crematorium III increases by 50, to 150.... The woodleand demolotion squad
is created in Birkenau, to which 50 female prisoners are sent. The squad
works on the grounds of the so-called big sauna and Crematorium IV. It
must clear the grounds and fill in and cover with grass all the pits
previously used for burning the corpses of those killed in the gas
chambers. It must also sift through the human ash remains before they are
strewn in the Vistula. Little trees are planted on the leveled ground....
The male and female prisoners attempt to sabotage the orders of the SS and
avoid whenever possible removing the ashes of the murdered before the pits
are filled in, in the hope that these human remains- some incompletely
burned bones -will in the near future prove the crime of genocide that was
committed here."

January 15 [1945] ...70 prisoners, former members of the Special Squad,
work in Squad 104-B, the crematory disassembly squad, which is employed in
the demolition of crematorium facilities. The disassembled facilities are
brought to a siding of a connecting railroad track and are trnasported to
Gross-Rosen.* The prisoners  knock holes in the walls of the crematorium
buildings and the gas chambers for the placement of explosives.... 210
prisoners work in the squads demolishing the barracks in the former
women's camp** in B-I and B-III ('Mexico'). The squad is designated 105-B
Barracks Demolition Squad B-I and B-III."

"* Part of these faciities are found after the war on the so-called
construction yard in Auschwitz."

"** The demolition of some of the barracks in Women's Camp B-Ia-b can be
seen on the aerial potographs made on January 14, 1945."

"January 20 [1945] ...The SS division under Corporal Perschel blows up the
already partly demolished Crematoriums II and III and abandons the camp."

"January 23 [1945] ...An SS division arrives in the prisoner's infirmary
camp in B-IIf in the afternoon...they set 30 storeroom barracks in the
personal effects camp on fire.... These barracks burn for several days.
After the liberation, 1,185,345 pieces of women's and men's outerwear,
43,255 pairs of shoes, 13,694 carpets, and a large number of toothbrushes,
shaving brushes, and other items such as protheses, glasses, etc., among
other things are found in the six remaining partially burned barracks."

"January 26 [1945] ...At 1:00 A.M. the SS squad with the task of
eliminating the traces of SS crimes blows up Crematorium V, the last of
the crematoriums in Birkenau."

> Why would the Germans have spent so much time on dismantling of
> the other sites instead of focusing on the alleged Cremas?

Because these "other sites" were primarily the wharehouses where the
plunder from the murdered victims were stored. But, of course, the Nazis
_didn't_ spend all that much time "dismantling" these "other sites." The
30 storeroom barracks, for instance, were simply torched at the last
minute by the SS. 

> Considering how the Soviets had set up a Extraordinary Commission
> for the study of war crimes from day one of entering the camps, why
> did the Soviets not take photos of the alleged Cremas, even in their
> razed state? Certainly the Germans would not have had time to clear
> the area of all traces. 

Photos of the dynamited Kremas _were_ taken in 1945, after the liberation
of the camp, as can be seen on pages 190-192 of _Auschwitz: a history in
photographs_, as well as on page 261 of _Auschwitz: technique and
operation of the gas chambers_. 

In addition, the USAAF air photo, taken on February 19, 1945, shows that
Kremas II and III were demolished by explosions. (cf. RG 373 Can F 5367,
exp. 3185, _Air Photo Evidence_, p.66.)

> So why are the alleged Cremas shown to be still existing on
> 1/14/45 in an Allied aerial photo, and why hadn't the Germans razed
> them way before knowing that defeat was imminent...

Because they had not yet been dynamited, of course. In the panic and
confusion of the German collapse- and the hasty evacuation of the
Auschwitz complex -the Kremas weren't dynamited until January 20 (Kremas
II and III) and January 26 (Krema V). 

> ...and why didn't the Soviets take any photographs or present detailed
forensic reports 
> about what was or said to have been while they had the chance of timely
investigation?
> 
But the Soviets _did_ take pictures. The Soviets (and the Poles) _did_
"present detailed forensic reports." 

cf. Sweibocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_,
pp.168,190-193,209-211,214-215.
cf. Pressac, _Auschwitz: technique and operation of the gas chambers_,
pp.50,233,261. 
cf. Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.45fn.  

> Why?  Because the buildings shown in the Allied aerial photograph
> of 1/14/45 weren't Cremas for the mass extermination of human beings,
> that's why.   

Considering that every single one of Moran's specious claims, half-truths,
and outright lies above have been rebutted, I think not. The evidence that
the Kremas at Birkenau were installations of mass murder that killed
hundreds of thousands of people is irrefutable. 

However, that Moran _does_ refute the enourmity- and compellingness -of
this evidence is hardly suprising given that:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
He has generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point,
generally, in taking the time to read and respond to his rantings. For
detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct  3 21:26:20 PDT 1996
Article: 71476 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is that GAS I smell, or a rotten mackerel?
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 14:40:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 148
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References: <5305a6$kvr@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <5305a6$kvr@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

Here we have yet another example of Holocaust denial by Herr Schwarzesel.
His specious claims, innuendo, and unsupports assertions are presented for
no other reason than the malicious distortion of the historical record so
as to disparge the Holocaust and its victims. Such puerile tactics are the
stock-in-trade of Holocuast deniers and Nazi apologists like Herr
Schwarzesel.

[snip]

> Well, now, how interesting.  Thanks to Mr. Curtis we now have a few answers.  
> Number one,neither Curtis nor "Anatomy" can tell us what happened to
Kammler.   

So? Are you criticizing Mr. Curtis for not being omniscient? Considering
_your_ _numerous_ "lapses" in recalling facts, Herr Herr Schwarzesel, I
daresay that is rather hypocritical of you to try and take Mr. Curtis to
task over Kammler. 

Do _you_ know what happened to Kammler, Herr Schwarzesel? Hmm? 

> 2.  We now see that Topf died a "suicide" while in American hands....how 
> convenient.

This, of course, is a puerile distortion by Herr Schwarzesel. Mr. Curtis
never claimed that Ludwig Topf was "in American hands."

In fact, Ludwid Topf was never taken into custody by the Americans. He,
full-well knowing his and his firm's involvement with the Nazi mass murder
of the Jews, simply commited suicide. Members of Topf blamed Ludwig's
death on his "general nervous depression." (Small wonder Ludwig was
nervous and depressed, considering that he was an accessory to mass
murder!) Ludwig's brother Ernst-Wolfgang Topf, also a director of the
firm, fled Erfurt either on or shortly after Pru"fer's arrest. (cf.
Pressac, _Technique_, p.103.) 

> I wonder if anyone can tell us a bit about Herr Topf's arrest, capture, 
> and interrogation?

Ludwig Topf was never arrested, captured, or interrogated. 

> Also, the names and ranks of his captors and the complete circumstances 
> surrounding his interrogation and alleged suicide.  "Botched"?...I think
not.. 
> What a web we weave......

Ludwig Topf was never arrested, captured, or interrogated. 

> 3.  We next read that Pruefer was set free (!), as well as receiving a 
> commission to design a furnace for the allies!  How strange!

"Pru"fer owed his quick release to his gift of the gab. Being used to
dealing with the military, and with the SS in particular, Patton's
soldiers could not intimidate him, and he got the better of them as he had
done with the head of the Auschwitz Bauleitung, Bischoff, at the end of
1941. What made it all the more entertaining for Pru"fer was that this was
new ground for him and his interrogators were green and credulous. All
they had against him was that he built cremation furnaces in the camps. He
had to show them that his furnaces were simply there for health reasons,
essential instruments for the proper functioning of the camp in that they
helped avoid the spread of epidemics and they were certainly useful in the
present deplorable state of Germany. As they did not suspect Pru"fer's
role in the conversion of the Birkenau Krematorien for homicidal purposes,
it appears that the Americans did not seize the Topf records, which were
at that time ful of damning evidence concerning the <>. [i.e. Topf's involvent with the killing installations at
Birkenau. -MV]  Since his involvement with Auschwitz was not known,
Pru"fer's arguments carried the day and he soon found himself not only
free but with an order for a furnace for the town of Erfurt from the
occupying power who imprisoned him!" (Ibid.) 

> 4.  The Americans "failed" to understand Topf's "role".  I believe they 
> understood his role quite well, that is why we are left with an alleged 
> "suicide".  They simply wanted him out of the way.  They understood better 
> than most that "loose tongues sink ships".

Given you, Herr Schwarzesel, are a self-admitted liar, as well as a
scumbag Nazi apologist, it would be best if you were to produce hard
factual evidence to support your specious claims. "I believe" simply
doesn't cut it -especially when coming from a lying scumbag Nazi apologist
like you.  

> 5.  Next we are told that Wolfgang Topf and Pruefer "apparently"
destroyed all contracts with the SS.  Why "apparently"?  Perhaps these
contracts were destroyed by people with other interests in mind....

Given you, Herr Schwarzesel, are a self-admitted liar, as well as a
scumbag Nazi apologist, it would be best if you were to produce hard
factual evidence to support your specious innuendo. "Perhaps" simply
doesn't cut it -especially when coming from a lying scumbag Nazi apologist
like you. 

> 6.  Not to overlook the Soviet actions:  How curious that Erdmann escaped
> internment because he was a member of a communist union.  Also, the early
> release dates for the other two captives simply proves that the whole arrest
> and trial of the other two gentleman was a complete FARCE, and was prompted
> by base political motives.  Notice that the "evil" Braun was released in 1955!
> No one knows what finally happened to Pruefer....apparently the Soviets 
> advised him to conveniently "get lost".  The Soviets did not just "discern" 
> Pruefer's role-they  CREATED it.  Those Soviet Broadway show trials!

Given you, Herr Schwarzesel, are a self-admitted liar, as well as a
scumbag Nazi apologist, it would be best if you were to produce hard
factual evidence to support your specious claims. "Apparently" simply
doesn't cut it -especially when coming from a lying scumbag Nazi apologist
like you. 
 

> 7.  The man Bischoff, as we are told, led a QUIET LIFE UNTIL 1950! The 
> infamous Bischoff, whose alleged communications are relentlessly promoted by 
> Holocaust enthusiasts, was apparently kept under wraps for specific reasons.  
> No trial, no imprisonment, nothing-and why?  Because these communications 
> amount to NOTHING. NIL.  

Given you, Herr Schwarzesel, are a self-admitted liar, as well as a
scumbag Nazi apologist, it would be best if you were to produce hard
factual evidence to support your specious claims. "Apparently" simply
doesn't cut it -especially when coming from a lying scumbag Nazi apologist
like you. 

> 8. Dejaco and Ertl were the two victims selected to "take the heat".  
> Underlings. How apropos!

Given you, Herr Schwarzesel, are a self-admitted liar, as well as a
scumbag Nazi apologist, it would be best if you were to produce hard
factual evidence to support your specious claims that Dejaco and Ertl were
"selected to 'take the heat'". "How apropos" simply doesn't cut it
-especially when coming from a lying scumbag Nazi apologist like you. 

> 9.  The trial in Vienna in January 1972 ended in the release and vindication 
> of both. How interesting.....

And how exactly, Herr Schwarzesel, did the acquittal of Dejaco and Ertl
"vindicate" their involvement at Auschwitz in designing the killing
installations there? 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct  4 07:06:24 PDT 1996
Article: 71491 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Anne Frank WAS NOT GASSED
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 16:40:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
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References:  <324ba80c.53567269@news.srv.ualberta.ca>   <530mtj$996@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> 
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In article <530mtj$996@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> In article , 
> Marty Kelley  wrote:
> 
> >Keep up that brilliant detective work, Jeffy!
> 
> Did you notice how you could get FJEFYER out of Jeffrey?  Wow!

And did you notice how you _can't_ get "truth", "honesty", "integrity",
"intelligence", and "Nazi genocide of the Jews" out of Jeffrey? 

Amazing. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct  4 17:24:56 PDT 1996
Article: 71669 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!news1.wtn!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 11:07:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
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In article <532n5k$p12@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >
> 
> >  
> >  Oh yes. I forgot. I wasn'r answering for you, Jellybelly. I was replying to
> >  Mark. His was such a good post catching you dead-to-rights in an outright
> >  lie and I was merely commenting that I was unsurprised.
> >  
> >  Now tell us what this lie is that I propound daily.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Let's see, first it was "Schwarzmehr", then "Herr Schwarzesel", now
"Jellybelly",
> as in "Jellyroll Morton"?  i think I like that one the best.

Actually, I like "Lying Scumbag Nazi Apologist" the best, Herr Schwarzesel.

Fits you to a tee. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:04 PDT 1996
Article: 71730 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 15:26:45 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 259
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In article <533395$sfh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   Brian Harmon  writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >  > , the blowers in the undressing room were more powerful than the 
> >  > ventilators
> >  > in the alleged "gas chamber".  
> >  
> >  Says who?
> 
> It's a fact.

Really, Herr Schwarzesel? Then could you be so kind as to enumerate the
power of the blowers installed as part of the ventilation system for the
L.Kellers? Since you claim such information is fact, I'm sure you must
have read these facts and should therefore find them easy to post. 

Or is that too much to ask of a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, Herr Schwarzesel? 

However, Herr Schwarzesel, just in case you encounter difficulties in such
an apparantly trivial endeavor, and considering your usual propensity for
letting your big mouth write checks your pea-brain can't cash, let me get
you started:

>From  Pressac's _Technique_, p.374:



The synthesis of these sources can be summarised in a table where the
motor sizes are expressed in kW/HP to harmonize the data with two
suggested distributions, the only ONES LOGICALLY possible in the light of
the information available [Document 39].

Distribution 1 is based on :

- Reserving the most powerful motor for the lift;

- Distributing the motors of equal power to rooms with fans of the same
type (550 for the furnace room  and the undressing room);

-Allocating the most powerful remaining motor, or one of equal power to
those driving the type 550 fans, to the gas chamber.

Distyribution 2 is based: 

- Distributing the motors according to the volume of the rooms [the letter
exchanmged between thr Bauleitung and Topf between 3rd and 12th February
1943 shows that the power required depended on the size of the room:

Ofenraum = Leichenkeller 2 > Leichenkeller 1 > Sezier-, Wasch- u.
Aufbahrungsraum.

-Allocation of the gas chamber motor in accordance with Messing's request;
- The most powerful motor given to the lift then the next to the furnace room.

It would seem that distribution 2 is the more likely one with motors of
equal power being attributed to each of the main large rooms. The
difference between what was ordered and what was supplied shows the
difficulties and delays that Topf was expeceriancing in obtaining electric
motors of gicen sizes at the beginning of 1943 and illustrated the already
critical situation of the Reich economy.



>From  Document 39 (Pressac, _Technique_, p.377):

=============================================================================

                 Recapitulatory table of motor powers

[The figure are expressed in kW/HP and those underlined are those of the
origional document]

+-------------+---------------------+-------------------+-------------------+
|             | Requirements as per |   Distribution 1  |  Distribution 2   |
| Designation | corrospondance of   |---------+---------|--------+----------|
| of Rooms    | 3-12 February 194   | Kr. II  | Kr. III | Kr. II | Kr/III   |
+-------------+---------------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
|     :       |          :          |   :     |   :     |    :    |   :     |
      :                  :              :         :          :        :   
+-------------+---------------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
| L-KELLER 1/ |   2,6/3,5           | 3,3/4,5 | 2,5/3,4 | 2,6/3,5 | 2,6/3,5 |  
| Gas chamber |       ---   N° 450  |     --- | ---     |     --- | ---     |
+-------------+---------------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
| L-KELLER 2/ |   5,5/7,7           | 2,6/3,5 | 2,6/3,5 | 2,6/3,5 | 2,5/3,4 |  
| Undrressing |       ---   N° 550  |     --- | ---     |     --- | ---     |
| room        |                     |         |         |         |         |
+-------------+---------------------+---------+---------+---------+---------+
|     :       |          :          |   :     |   :     |    :    |   :     |
      :                  :              :         :          :        :
=============================================================================

Interesting, is it not, Herr Schwarzesel, that according to Pressac
(above) the most likely distribution (2) of motor power to the L.Kellers
shows that L.Keller 1 has equal (Kr.II) or greater (Kr.III) motor power
than L.Keller 2?

Yet you, Herr Schwarzesel, claim (without evidence) just the opposite:
that "the blowers in the undressing room were more powerful than the
ventilators in the alleged 'gas chamber'."

This becomes even more interesting considering that L.Keller 1 had a
volume of about 513 cu m while L.Keller 2 had a volume of about 1,210 cu
m. (cf. Huta drawing 109/13A, Ibid. p. 323.) This would give L.Keller 1 a
power/volume ratio of 2.35:1 over L.Keller 2. 

Why, Herr Schwarzesel, would L.Keller 1 need over twice the power/volume
ratio of L.Keller 2 if not to ventilate L.Keller 1 rapidly?  And _why_,
Herr Schwarzesel would there be a _need_ to ventilate L.Keller 1 rapidly
if it was not, in fact, a homicidal gas chamber? 

> >  > It should have been the other way around.
> >  
> >  Why?
> 
> Zyklon is lighter than air.

So? Are you suggesting, Herr Schwarzesel, that 300 ppm, or even as much
12,000 ppm (40 times the immediately lethal dose), of HCN, would make a
difference in the abililty to ventilate L.Keller 1? If so, please clarify
yourself, as your grasp of physics (and ventilators) appers rather
Giweresque.  

Are you suggesting (without evidence), Herr Schwarzesel, that _becuase_
"Zyklon is lighter than air" that L.Keller 1 _should_ have had a less
powerfull motor than L.Keller 2? 

If so, then please rebut Pressac's claims (above) regarding the
distrubution of the motor power for the L.Kellers. Then please explain why
it would _not_ make  more sense to put the more powerful of the available
motors in L.Keller 1's ventilation system to remove the HCN from L.Keller
1 as rapidly as possible. 

> >   Why should i have to prove TO YOU that every document 
> >  historians use is genuine?
> 
> You don't.
> >   >
>  What are these "special actions"?
> >  
> >  Sonderaktions = Gassing.
> 
> Your interpretation.

And Kramer's, In his diary he wrote of witnessing many "special actions."
When Kramer was interrogated concerning these "special actions" he left no
doubt as to what they were.

For example, from Kramer's diary: 



October 12. 1942.  The second inoculation against tyhus and strong 
                   reaction in the evening (fever). In spite of that 
                   was present at night at another special action action with
                   a draft from Holland (1,600 persons). Horrible 
(Ho"ssler!)        scene in front of the last bunker! This was the 
                   10th special action.



Bezwinska & Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, p.223.

The authors' footnote to this entry in Kremer's diary is as follows: 

"1,703 Jews from Holland were brought that day to KL Aushwitz. 344 men and
108 women were directed to the camp as prisoners. The rest were killed in
the gas chambers.

"In the formal record of the interrogatory of July 18, 1947, in Cracow,
Kremer had the following explination for this entry: 'In connection with
the gassing action , described by me in my diary under the date October
12, 1942. I have to explaion that the circa 1,600 Dutchman were then
gassed. This is an approximate number which I had put down after hearing
it mentioned by others. This action was conductred by SS officer Ho"ssler.
I remember how he tried to drive the whole group into one bunker. He was
successful except for one man whom it was not by any means possible to
squeeze inside the bunker. This man was killed by Ho"ssler with a pistol
shot. I therefore wrote in my diary about horrible scenes in front of the
last bunker and I mentioned Ho"ssler's name in connection with this
incident.'" (Ibid. pp.223fn-224fn.) 

So,  Herr Schwarzesel, it is quite clear that Mr. Harmon is quite correct
in saying that Sonderaktions were indeed homicidal gassings. 

> >  This isn't the only place the term 'special action turned up,
> >  Dr. Kremer also wrote about them in his diary:
> 
> I have read this.  I have the book "Auschwitz in the eyes of the SS".

In that case, Herr Schwarzesel, you were clearly being disingenous when
you said, "Your interpretation." Unsuprising considering that you are a
lying scumbag Nazi apologist. 

> >   They don't call Auschwitz the extermination camp for nothing!
> 
> > German for the above, please, if possible.
> > Kremer also testified about his diary, and confirmed that
> >  "Sonderaktion" means gassing.
> 
> Do you happen to know when and where?

In his interrogation of July 18, 1947, in Cracow. See above.

> >   Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
> 
> >   I provide cited documents in answer to 
> >  some of your claims, and your response is to bombard
> >  me with demands to prove their authenticity.
> 
> I feel it is a pertinent request.  why do you think it isn't?

Because, Herr Schwarzesel, considering that, for example, the "answers" to
your questions regarding "special actions" are included in the text of _KL
Auschwitz_, you are clearly being disingenous and trying to obfuscate the
issues with puerile questions and demands. 

> you tell your challengers to 'read the testimony'.
> 
> I wish I had the testimony from Kramer's trial, as well as Artur 
> Liebehenschel's. Both are unavailable in German and English.

Yet the authors (Bezwinska & Czech) have clearly read the testimony,
translated the pertinent parts in regards to Kremer's diary- for example
in regards to Kramer's October 12, 1942, entry -and included them in _KL
Auschwitz_. 

A book that is available in English and that _you_ claim to have. 

Clearly, Herr Schwarzesel, given your track record of Nazi apologia and
Holocaust denial, you are once again being disingenous in the extreme.
Hardly suprising, considering that you are a lying scumbag Nazi apologist.

> > I believe you have your dates wrong.  The Typhus epidemic
> > was in 1942, i believe.  Kremer wrote about it in his diary.
> 
> You believe?  

Ho"ss issued Komandanturbefehl 19/42 on July 23, 1942, ordering the camp
to be placed in a state of Lagersperre (isolation) because of the typhus
epidemic. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.187.) 

It would appear that Mr. Harmon was quite correct in his "belief," Herr
Schwarzesel. 

> Also, you did not state what happened to Jahrling.  Do you know?

Do _you_, Herr Schwarzesel? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:05 PDT 1996
Article: 71734 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 11:05:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <32543f26.25624644@news.spry.com> <532n12$p12@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <532n12$p12@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  On 3 Oct 1996 07:33:41 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> Kennie wrote:
> >  
> 
> >  
> >  Sorry, that would be Kenny, not Kennie and only then if you were my mother.
> >  
> >  And just what is the lie that I 'propound daily,' Herr Belling?
> >  
> >  (BTW, this is not a USENET 'site.' USENET is USENET. It does not reside at
> >  any particular site.)
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> You are "living" a lie.

Consider the source of this gem: a _lying_  scumbag Nazi apologist who is
too chickenshit to back up his accusations with facts.

Looks like Herr Schwarzesel is quickly approaching the nadir of Holocaust
denial. Soon he'll be babbling like the Giwer-eunuch, but in
"Schwarzeselese." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:05 PDT 1996
Article: 71846 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 21:58:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References: <3255807b.97989174@news.zilker.net> <5344rk$38q@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5344rk$38q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >Get thee behind Danny Keren, Satan, and do what you do best.....be sure
> >  >to gargle afterwards. 
> >  >
> >  
> >  Is this another example of your taking the high road, Mr.
> >  Belling/Blackmore/Whoever?
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Why don't you review some of the comments made in your own posts, as well
> as Ken Lewis, McFee, and Van Alstine, and then come back here with your holier
> than thou attitude.  

Indeed! I _readily_ admitted, Herr Schwarzesel, to calling you a lying
scumbag Nazi apologist. And for good reason: you ARE a lying scumbag Nazi
apologist! 

1. You have engaed in attempting to white-wash Streicher's crimes by
implying that he was convicted and executed soley because he was a
pornagraphist. 

2. You have attempted to white-wash Go"ring by claiming that he had no
authority to order Heydrich to prepare for the extermination pogrom
against the Jews. You even made the specious claim that _no_ historian
believed that Go"ring's July 31, 1941 order to Heydrich implicated him in
the subsequent extermination pogrom against the Jews. (Hillberg, in
_Destruction_, clearly documents otherwise, thus demolishing such claims.)


3. You have tried to white-wash Kramer of all responsibility for the
horrid conditions and the tens of thousands of deaths caused thereby at
Bergen-Belsen. Worse, you attemptred to impunge the honor of the British
Army with slander by alluding that the deaths of prisoners suffering from
the Nazi privations were _their_ fault. When confronted with evidence that
clearly rebutts your specious claims you simply- and profusely -lied about
this evidence and took refuge in ad hominens and specious evasions.

4. You lied when you claimed that the Discovery Channel intentionally
promulgated, in order to decieve the public, that the death toll at
Auschwitz was 4 million. When confronted with this lie yiou attempted to
packpedal from your claim, and when it was _clearly) shown that you lied
in doing so, you refuse to substantiated your claim against the discovery
Channel and took refuge in ad hominens and specious evasions.

Ergo, Herr Schwarzesel, you have lied and offered apologia on behalf of
Nazis. This clearly makes you a liar and a Nazi apologist. Such a person
is indeed a scumbag in my opinion.  And, I'd venture to guess, in most
peoples' opinions.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:06 PDT 1996
Article: 71849 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:24:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
Message-ID: 
References: <534bid$3ps@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <534hlq$dk7@news.enter.net>
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In article <534hlq$dk7@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> >       It has been some six to seven months since the holohuggers,
after several
> >  rounds of name calling, dropped to rather obvious point regarding the
> >  collection of human hair, there exists nothing then or now that is made of
> >  pure jewess hair.  
> 
>         Directive to commandants of concentration camps dated January 1, 
> 1943:
> 
>         "The prisoner's hair is to be sent to Alex Zink, Fur
Manufactures, Ltd., 
> Nuremberg.  The company will pay 0.50 marks for every kilogram of hair."
> 
>         Bubdesarchiv Koblenz; document NS 3 386.
> 
>         --YFE


The translation of a report from IMT, Band XX, Nurnberg 1947.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 137; (Plate 282 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SS-Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt                Oranienburg,
                                                 August 6. 1942
Amtsgruppe D - Concentration Camps
D II 288 Ma./Ha. Tgb. 112 geh.                   SECRET!
                                                 Copy 13
Re: Use of hair cuttings

To the Commandants of the Concentration Camps
Arb., Au., Bu., Da., Flo., Gr.Ro., Lu., Maut/Gu., Na., Nie., Neu.,
Rav., Sahs., Stutth., Mor., SS SL Hinzert.

SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl, Chief of the SS
Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt has ordered that the hair of concentration
camp prisoners is to be put to use. Hair is to be made into industrial
felt or spun into yarn. Woman's hair is to be used in the manufacture of
hair-yarn socks for 'U'-boat crews and hair-felt foot-wear for the
Reichs-railway.

It is therefore ordered that the hair of female prisoners be disinfected
and stored. Men's hair can only be put to use if it is longer than 20 mm.
SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl therefore agrees for an intial trial period to
the growing of the prisoners hair to a length of 20 mm before it is cut.
Long hair could facillitate escape and to avoid this the camp commandants
may have a middle parting shaved in the prisoners' hair as a
distinguishing mark, if they think it is necessary.

It is planned to planned to set up a hair processing workshop in one of
the concentration camps. Further details as to the delivery of the
accumulated hair will follow.

The total monthly amount of male and female hair is to be reported to this
office on the 5th of every month beginning from September 5, 1942.

                                                  signed: Glucks
                                                  SS-Brigadefuhrer und
                                                  Generalmajor der Waffen-SS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:07 PDT 1996
Article: 71850 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Auschwitz evidence?
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:21:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 297
Message-ID: 
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In article <3254f600.478177@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

Here we have the Moran(tm) mindlessly continuing on with his Holocaust
denial. His specious claims, half-truths, and outright lies are presented
for no other reason (besides being an ignorant bufoon) than the malicious
distortion of the historical record to disparge the Holocaust and its
victims. Such puerile tactics are the stock-in-trade of Holocuast deniers,
Nazi apologists, and anti-Semites like Moran.

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32527619.2343924@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
> >wrote:
> >

[snip]

> >However, unlike the other extermination camps, the evidence of genocide at
> >Auschwitz II-Birkenau and Majdanek were not completely erased because they
> >were abandoned in the face of the rapidly advancing Red Army. At Birkenau
> >the SS, who had been methodically dismantling Kremas II and III since
> >November 1944 (Krema IV was demolished in October), hastily dynamited them
> >along with Krema V and set fire to the storage barracks, where the plunder
> >of the victims was kept, before fleeing. 
> 
> So here we have it the Germans were dismantling the Kremas
> starting in Nov. 1944, yet Allied photos show them to be intact in
> Jan. 1945. 

Does the Moran (tm) have a problem with this fact? Does the Moran (tm) not
comprehend that dismantling does not neccessarily mean demolition? Does
the Moran (tm) not comprehend that Kremas II and III were in the process
of being dismantled? Does the Moran (tm) not realize that the important
and valuable components, such as the furnaces, fittings, benches,
gas-tight doors and shutters, etc. were being removed, stored in the
Auschwitz Bauhof, and shipped to other camps? Does the Moran (tm) not
realize that this would leave the Krema shells (i.e the building)
relatively intact? (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.174,239; Pressac,
_Technique_, pp.253,260; _Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.116.)  

> Then somewhere before the Soviets arrived days later, the
> Germans dynamited the buildings. 

Yes. Amazing. The Moran(tm) _can_ (barely) understand history! (Although
one has to beat him over the head with it for quite some time....) 

> But are there any photos of the ruins as they were then by the Soviet 
> "Extraordinary Commission" that was there from day one? The only photo 
> of any ruins is one of collapsed concrete, with the source of the photo 
> untold. 

Which is exactly how the Soviets found it: in ruins. As for the source of
the photo being "untold," need I remind the Moran (tm) it was _he_ who
brought up mention of this photo? Perhaps the Moran (tm) should cite the
source for this photo? 

> VanAlstine hasn't put forth any references for his statement, but we could 
> imagine it's from  some "eyewitness" testimony. 

There are five photos of the ruins of Krema II in _Technique_ on page 261.
The caption to two give the date to be in the summer of 1945. There are
three different photos of the ruins of the Kremas in _Auschwitz: a history
in photographs_ on  pages 190-191, all taken in 1945. Two of these photos
show the ruins to have snow on them, which would indicate that they were
most likely taken in the winter soon after the camp was liberated. Then,
on page 192, there are two close-up photos of the ruins of the furnaces of
Krema V dated 1945. Then, of course, in  _Air Photo Evidence_, on page 66,
there is the Allied air photo of February 19, 1945, that shows Kremas II
and III destroyed by explosions.

> >> The gassings are said to have ceased in late summer or early fall
> >> 1944.
> >
> >Yes. November 1944. 
> 
> He could be right. But I think I have seen dates for Aug. and
> Sept. Maybe Mr.VanAlstine will come back to give his sources for the
> record. This way they can be archived under the category (last gassing
> Ausch.) and compared to others as they appear.
> 
> >> The only remaining photograph, today, as evidence of this alleged
> >> program is a picture of some collapsed concrete, said to have been
> >> Crema II. 

Again, this is incorrect. As listed above, there are several photos, all
taken in 1945, probably spanning a time period from just after the camp's
liberation to the summer of 1945. 

> This is the only photo presented by the Holocaust
> >> promotional network.

Incorrect as usual.(See above.) 

> >This is incorrect. There were _numerous_ (surviving) photos taken of the
> >Kremas during their construction by the Auschwitz Bauleitung. Not to
> >mention there are also photos of deportees undergoing "selection" on the
> >ramp, women being driven naked into the gas chambers of Krema V, and of
> >the bodies of the gassed victims being burned in an incineration pit, etc.
> >(cf. Sweibocka, _Auschwitz: a history in photographs_.)  
> 
> The only photograph of any ruins is that of Crema II. 

Incorrect as usual.(See above.) 

> Any other photographs are irrelevant as to the immediate topic. What was
left. 
> A "demolition" program.

Incorrect as usual. All the photos substantiate that the Kremas were
demolished and are therefore _quite_ relevant. Furthermore, taking into
account the eyewitness testimonies and Nazi records describing the
circumstances and dates the Kremas were dismantled and demolished, it is
self-evident that they were dismantled and demolished while Auschwitz was
occupiued by the Nazis. 

> >> Yet even the Holocaust story has it that the Germans were engaged
> >> in a general dismantling program of the camp.
> >
> >The Nazis, began the dismantling of Kremas II and II in late 1944. Krema
> >IV was gutted in the Sonderkommando revolt and subsequently demolished in
> >late 1944. Kremas II, III, and V were demolished in January 1945. (See
> >below.) 
> 
> He already said that in reference to something else. The topic
> here is "general demolition". 

There was no "general demolition." The Nazis _specifically_ attempted to
erase _only_ the evidence of mass murder at Auschwitz.

> >> In an Allied aerial photo of the camp, 1/14/45 we can see that
> >> parts of the camp are missing when compared to other Allied aerial
> >> photos.
> >
> >Yes. One can also see that Kremas II and III were being dismantled, and
> >that Krema IV was demolished. 
> 
> No, the photo of Jan. 1945 shows no sign of dismantling taking
> place.  

This, of course, is a lie. The evidence that Kremas II and III were in the
process of dismantling in the December 21, 1944, and the January 16, 1945,
air photos is quite easy to see when pointed out. It has also been noted
by several prominent authors on the Holocaust such as, for example, G.M
Gilbert (cf. Gilbert, _Auschwitz and the Allies_), Jean-Claude Pressac
(cf. Pressac, _Technique_), and Francizek Piper (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_,
ch.7).

> >> A good part of Monowitz (industrial sector) are missing and about 8
> >> barracks in the women's camp are either missing or in some other state 
> >>than the rest.
> >
> >The I.G. Farben complex at Monowitz was bombed several times by the USAAF:
> 
> We could accept this as true. 

How thoughtful of the Moran (tm). Kind of hard to deny the USAAF mission
records that show that the I.G. Farben industrial complex was repeatedly
bombed, I take it? 

> Whether what is shown in the photo  of Jan. 1945 is the result of
demolition or 
> bombing is not evident.

Of course, it is. Birkenau was about five _miles_ away from the I.G.
Farben industrial complex at Monowitz and was _never_ targeted by the
USAAF. There is only one recorded instance of stray bombs striking within
the boundry of the Birkenau camp. It happend during the September 13, 1944
raid: "One bomb damaged the railway embankment leading into the camp, and
the sidings leading to the crematoria. A second bomb hit a bomb shelter
located between the crematoria sidings, killing thirty civilian workers."
(Gilbert, _Auschwitz and the Allies_, p. 315)

Given that the September 13, 1944, air photo cleary shows Kremas II and
III to be _completely_ intact, and that no other incidents of bombs
dropping on Birkenau has been cited, and that the dismantling as the
Kremas began _after_ the September 13 raid, how does the Moran (tm)
explain the fact that the Kremas are intact on September 13, 1944, but
clearly being dismantled on December 21, 1944, and Janaury 15, 1945?

The Moran (tm) _doesn't_, of course, but instead simply waves his hands
and makes specious allusions that it is not possible to tell between the
_organized_ dismantling by laborers and violent demolition by
_explosives_. 

> What is evident, that it wasn't bombing as there appears to be no
> rubble or partially standing walls. Even though Mr.VanAsltine chose to
> overlook it, barracks in the women's camp were shown to be missing.
> Caption within the photo of Jan. 1945 have it as being "partially
> dismantled".

And what photo is the Moran (tm) talking about now? Which camp? Monowitz?
Birkeanu? Please _specifically_ cite the photo and the source it may be
found in. 

> >"According to the interpretation of aerial photographs taken during the
> >[September 13, 1944] raid, 'only slight damage' was done, mostly to the
> >'small stores, buildings and labour barracks'. Two buildings in the
> >'concentration camp' were seen also to have been hit." (Gilbert,
> >_Auschwitz and the Allies_, p.316.) During the raid some 300 slave
> >laborers were injured. (cf. Ibid. p.315.) 
> >
> >An air photo of the December 21, 1944, raid against the I.G. Farben
> >complex at Monowitz also shows bomb damage to buildings. (cf. Ball, _Air
> >Photo Evidence_, p.75.)         
> 
> >Is Moran claiming that, rather than suffering from bomb damage, this "good
> >part" of the "Monowitz (industrial sector)" was "missing" because it was
> >part of the Nazi attempt to erase the evidence of their genocide at
> >Birkenau, which was some five miles away? 
> 
> We'll clarify the section in question. Sometimes referred to, I
> believe, as part of or connected to Monowitz, identified in photos as
> "Sector III", immediately north of the mens section. This section is
> identified in the photo of Jan. 1945 as having been "dismantled". 

Monowitz, or Auschwitz III, was FIVE MILES away from the Birkenau
extermination camp. Excluding the "Gypsy Camp" (BIIe) and the "Family
Camp" (BIIb) women were confined in the "Woman's Camp" (BIa and BIb). Only
during Aktion Ho"ss, in the summer of 1944, were (Jewish) women confined,
awaiting extermination, in BIIc and the "Mexico Camp" (BIII), which was
only _partially_ completed before construction was halted by the Nazis.
(cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.394-395.) 

Is the Moran (tm) therefore saying that the these dismantled barracks in
question  were located in the "Mexico Camp" (BIII)?  If so, then _why_ did
the the Moran (tm) babble on disingenously that "a good part of [the]
Monowitz (industrial sector)" was "missing and about 8 barracks in the 
women's camp are either missing or in some other state than the rest?" 

Clearly, the Moran (tm), as usual, has confused himself mightily with his
own lies. 

[snip]
      
> >>Yet Cremas II, III and V are shown to be intact 1/14/45.
> >
> >This is incorrect. Kremas II and III were dismantled. Only their shells
> >were partially intact:
> 
> "Only their shells". What shows in the photo is the buildings,
> complete. 

The dogmatic and ignorant Moran (tm) can keep chanting this mantra until
Hell freezes over. The fact remains that Holocaust researchers,
historians, WWII mission records and BDAs, and air photo analysts, clearly
disagree with him. 

In other words, the Moran (tm) is clearly blowing smoke out of his butt. Again. 

> Mr.VanAsltine may have some eye witness testimony that can give us a story 
> about something happening on the inside.

Of course. But what evidence does the Moran (tm) cite? What historians,
Holocaust researchers, air photo analysts, etc. does Moran reference? 

None. Nada. Zippo. Zilch. Zero.

All the Moran (tm) does is rant and rave, wave his hands, and when all is
said and done, profusely blows more smoke out his butt. I daresay that the
Moran (tm), in the interests of air quality, should glue an air-scrubber
over his anus. 

[The rest snipped, as the Moran (tm) has no rebuttal, thus conceeding the
issues that show him to be blowing smoke out his butt again.] 

Once again, in conclusion:

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:08 PDT 1996
Article: 71851 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING THE IMPENDING ON-LINE CIRCUMCISION OF MY SON
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:31:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <52rm8u$rdm@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <52t2c1$npm@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <32526C6F.1541@ccnis.net> <3252a8d0.166195752@news.zilker.net> <3255CC40.5F0@unb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3255CC40.5F0@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

> Mike Curtis wrote:
> > 
> > "Annie Alpert, OFB"  wrote:
> > 
> > >Richard Schultz wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Marduk (mgiwer@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Give it up, buddy.  Giwer now puts "mgwier," not "mgiwer," in his
> > >> From: line.
> > >
> > >You know why he's doing that, don't you?  He's trying to bypass the
> > >killfile commands some users might have on their system.  He can't STAND
> > >to be ignored!
> > 
> > Who is Giwer? I haven't seen him in months. Anyway, what is there to
> > see?
> 
> The intellectual equivalent of someone masturbating with a cheese
> grater.

Owwwwwww! That _must_ smart! Even mentally. (Unless one is a perpetually
drunken sod like the The Giwer-eunuch.)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:09 PDT 1996
Article: 71854 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING to tour Australia????
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 22:43:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <52b0ff$6l5@opera.iinet.net.au> <324dcf15.45849907@199.0.216.204>  <530o4l$1i9s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <53486o$nh6@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:45755 alt.revisionism:71854

In article <53486o$nh6@Networking.Stanford.EDU>, rcgraves@ix.netcom.com
(Rich Graves) wrote:

> ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie Farber) writes:
> >
> >>>>>IRVING TACKLES PM ON SPEECH
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Right-Wing British historian David Irving has challenged Prime
> >>>>>Minister John Howard to back his claims on freedom of speech by
> >>>>>allowing him to visit Australia.
> >
> >For accuracy , David irving has described himself as a "mild fascist".
> 
> Do you have a reference for this? In his response to Shallit, Irving
> denies ever saying this. 

"In 1981 Irving, a self-described 'moderate fascist,' established his own
right-wing political party, founded on his belief he was meant to be a
future leader of Britain." (Lipstadt, _Denying the Holocaust_, p.161.) 

The source for this quote was:

_Canadian Jewish News_, Mar. 16, 1989; _London Jewish Chronicle, May 27, 1983.

(cf. Ibid. note 20, p.260.) 

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 08:56:09 PDT 1996
Article: 71855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!n1van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haphazard state of affairs
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 1996 23:02:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 340
Message-ID: 
References: <3252763b.2377977@199.0.216.204>  <3255507b.20218606@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3255507b.20218606@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

Here we have yet another example of Holocaust denial by the Moran (tm).
His specious claims, innuendo, and unsupports assertions are presented for
no other reason than the malicious distortion of the historical record so
as to disparge the Holocaust and its victims. Such puerile tactics are the
stock-in-trade of Holocuast deniers, anti-Semites, and Nazi apologists
like the Moran (tm).

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> >
> ># Now this doesn't seem such a bad design, at least when compared
> ># to what they came to build at Auschwitz, which the first two were
> ># built underground making it necessary to carry the thousands of
> ># bodies up the stairs and through a couple of door ways.
> >
> >Of course, an elevator was used to take the corpses to the ground
> >floor where the furnaces were. I guess this was mentioned here a
> >few hundreds of times. But Tommy Moran is a "revisionist scholar".
> 
> Of course there may have been an elevator ordered, even installed
> at the building identified as Crema III. The Holocaust story has it
> Crema III had an elevator. Crema II was left to rot with just the
> stairs. 

This, of course, is an ignorant lie by the Moran (tm). Krema II most
certainly _did_ have a corpse lift. Not only do the construction drawings
(Bauleitung drawing 2003) for Krema II show the Aufzug (corspe lift); not
only does Kirschneck's report of 1/29/43 note that the "corpse hoist" was
being installed; not only did Messing write on his timesheet for April
12-18, 1942: "Worksite 30 [Kr.II -MV]. Repaired lift;" But Henry Tauber, a
Sonderkommando in Krema II, in his deposition for the Ho"ss Trial, noted
that: "In the right corner of the corridor [the vestibule between
L.Kellers 1 and 2 -MV], on the wall facing the door from the undressing
room, there was a lift to transport the corpses [to the furnace room on
the ground floor -Pressac]." (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, pp.214, 302-303,
372-373,483.)

> The topic is "underground". The Germans building chambers
> underground, which, elevator or no, would be a ridiculous plan.

Not for morgues, which was what L.Kellers 1 and 2 were _origionally_
designed to be before they were _converted_ into a homicidal gas chamber
(L.Keller 1) and an undressing room (L.Keller 2). In a morgue it is
desireable to keep the corpses cold to retard decomposition. Putting the
morgues underground would have helped to insulate them and keep them cool
during the summer months. A fact born out in that when the outside
temperature was greater than that in L.Keller 1 it was aerated with warmer
outside air to raise the temperature so that the Zyklon B would evaporate
quicker. (cf. Gutman, _Anotomy_, p.170.) 

> Evidently they figured out something else with Cremas IV and V.... 

Indeed. Kremas IV and V, unlike Kremas II and III, were purpose-built
homicidal installations from their inception. They were also designed to
cost less than Kremas II and III. (cf. Ibid. pp.168,219.) 

[snip]

> ># Why Auschwitz didn't go for the well proven, by Holocaust
> ># accounts, method of extermination by carbon monoxide said to
> ># have been used at other camps to kill millions of people is a wonder.
> 
> >One obvious reason is that Zyklon was used in Auschwitz before
> >Belzec started operating. It worked well and Hoess decided not
> >to switch to using engine exhaust. He also mentions in his memoirs
> >that using engine exhaust sometimes resulted in technical problems,
> >and adds:
> 

[Moranic(tm) non-sequitar snipped]

> > "Experience had shown that that the preparation of prussic acid
> >[HCN] called Cyclone B caused death with far greater speed and
> >certainty" [p. 133, "KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS"].
>
> Often technical problems with the carbon monoxide trick are
> attested to in the Holocaust story. As far as I know, none of the
> technical problems are discussed, only referred to.

Obviously,the Moran (tm) knows very little of what has been discussed in
Holocuast literature about problems with using carbon monoxide in
homicidal gassings. For example:  

"The rivalry [between Ho"ss and Wirth] came to a head one day in August,
1942, when Eichmann's deputy, Gu"nther, and the chief disinfection
officer, Kurt Gerstein, arrived in Belzac. They had about 200 pounds of
Zyklon with them and were about to convert the carbon monoxide chambers to
the hydrogen cyanide method. The unwelcome guests stayed to watch a
gassing which took an especially long time (over three hours) because the
diesel engine had failed. To Wirth's great embarrassment and
mortification, Gerstein timed the operation with a stop watch. Facing the
greatest crisis of his career, Wirth dropped his pride and asked Gerstein
'not to poropose any other tyope of gas chamber in Berlin.' Gerstein
obliged, ordering the Zyklon to be buried on the pretext that it had
spoiled." (Hilberg, _Destruction_, pp.571-572.) 

"...SS Unterscharfu"hrer Heckenholt endeavors to get the Diesel going.
But, it does not work! Hauptman Wirth arrives. One see, he is frightened,
because me. I see the disaster. Yes, I see and wait. My 'stop' was has
timed everything - 50 minutes, 70 minutes - the diesel does not work!
...After 2 hours 49 minutes - the 'stop watch has recorded everything -
the Diesel starts.... Again, 25 minutes pass: a great many, it is true,
are dead. Ones sees by the little window through which the electric light
allows one to see for a moment the interior of the chamber. After 28
minutes still a few who survive, fter 32, finally all are dead!" (Roques,
_The "Confessions" of Kurt Gerstein_, p.23.)

"_Hauptmann_ Wirth begged me not to propose any other method whatsoever to
Berlin and leave all as it was. I lied that the prussic acid was already
destroyed by the transport and very dangerous and to being forced to bury
the acid, [which] was done immediately." (Ibid. p.26.) 


From: _Nazi Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the Use of Poison Gas_,
pp.228-230:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Appendix 2    Letter to Rauf from the SS Reich Security Main Office


The letter below is taken from the documents of the SS Reich Security Man
Office. It was sent by section II D 3 a, the automotive organization of
the Security Police, whose chief (Referat) was SS-Hauptsturmfu"hrer and
Captain of the Municipal Police Pradel. It was addressed to
SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer Rauff, Director (Gruppenleiter) of Division II D,
technical matters, to which this section belonged. A fascsimile of the
origional letter is reproduced after the translation. (See also page 55.)


II D 3 a (9) NI. 214/42 G. RS.
                                                       Berlin, 5 June 1942
                                                       Only copy.

                                                       TOP SECRET!
I. Note:

Conc. Technical adjustments to special vans at present in service and
those that are in production.

Since December 1942, ninety-seven thousand have been processed, using
three vans, without any defects showing up in the vehicles. The explosion
that we know took place at Kulmhof is to be considered an isolated case.
The cause can be attributed to improper operation. In order to avoid such
incidents, special instructions have been addressed to the services
concerned. Safety has been increased considerably as a result of these
instructions.

Previous experiance has shown that the following adjustments would be useful:

(1) In order to facilitate the rapid distribution of CO, as well as to
avoid a buildup of pressure, two slots, ten by one centieters, will be
bored at the top of the rear wall. The excess pressure would be controlled
by an easily adjustible hinged metal valve on the outside of the vans.

(2) The normal capacity of the vans is nine to ten per square meter. The
capacity of the larger Saurer vans is not so great. The problem is not one
of overloading but off-road manueverability on all terrains, which is
severely diminished in this van. It would appear that a reduction in the
cargo area is necessary. This can be achieved by shortening the
compartment by about one meter. The problem cannot be solved by merely
reducing the number of subjects treated, as has been done so far. For in
this case a longer running time is required, as the empty space also needs
to be filled with CO. On the contrary, were the cargo area smaller, but
fully occupied, the operation would take considerably less time, because
there would be no empty space.

The manufacturer pointed out during discussions that a reduction in the
volume of the cargo compartment would result in an inconvienant
displacement of the cargo toward the front. There would then be a risk of
overloading the axle. In fact, there is a natural compensation in the
distribution of the weight. When [the van is] in operation, the load, in
its efforts to reach the rear door, places itself for the most part at the
rear. For this reason the front axle is not overloaded.

(3) The pipe that connects the exhaust to the van tends to rust, because
it is eaten away from the inside by liquids that flow into it. To avoid
this the nozzle should be arranged as to point downward. The liquids will
thus be prevented from flowing into [the pipe].

(4) To faciltate the cleaning of the whole vehicle, an opening will be
made in the floor to allow for drainage. It will be closed by a watertight
cover about twenty to thirty centimeters in diameter, fitted with an elbow
siphon that will allow for the drainage of thin liquids. The upper part of
the elbow pipe will be fitted with a sieve to avoid obstruction. Thicker
dirt can be removed through the large drainage hole when the vehicle is
cleaned. The floor of the vehicle can be tipped slightly. In this way all
the liquids can be made to flow towards the center and be prevented from
entering the pipes.

(5) The observation windows that have been installed up to now could be
eliminated, as they are hardly ever used. Considerable time will be saved
in the production of the new vans by avoiding the difficult fitting of the
window and its airtight lock.

(6) Greater protection is needed for the lighting system. The grille
should cover the lamps high enough to make it impossible to break the
bulbs. It seems that these lamps are hardly ever turned on, so the users
have suggested that they could be done away with. Experiance shows,
however, that when the back door is closed and it gets dark inside, the
load pushes hard against the door. The reason for this is that when it
becomes dark inside the load rushes toward what little light remains. This
hampers the locking of the door. It also has been noticed that the noise
provoked by locking of the door is linked to the fear aroused by the
darkness. It is therefore expediant to keep the lights on before the
operation and during the first few minutes of its duration. Lighting is
also useful for night work and for cleaning of the interior of the van.

(7) To facilitate the rapid unloading of the vehicles, a removeable grid
is to be placed on the floor. It will slide on rollers on a U-shaped rail.
It will be removed and put into position by means of a small winch placed
under the vehicle. The firm charged with the alterations has stated that
it is not able to continue for the moment, due to a lack of staff and
materials. Another firm will have to be found.

The technical changes planned for the vehicles already in operation will
be carried out when and as major repairs to these vehicles prove
necessary. The alterations in the ten Saurer vehicles already ordered will
be carried out as far as possible. The manufacturer made it clear in a
meeting that structural alterations, with the exception of minor ones,
cannot be carried out for the moment. An attempt must therefore be made to
find another firm that can carry out, on at least one of these ten
vehicles, the alterations and adjustments that experiance has proved to be
necessary. I suggest that the firm in Hohenmauth be charged with the
execution.

Due to present circumstances, we shall have to expect a later date of
completion for this vehicle. It will then not only be kept available as a
model but also be used as a reserve vehicle. Once it has been tested, the
other vans will be withdrawn from service and will undergo the same
alterations.

II. To Gruppenleiter II D
    SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer Rauff
    for examination and decision

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, of course, there is _Friedrich Berg's Paper, with Commentary_,
Appendix 3 of _Deceit & Misrepresentation: The Techniques of Holocaust
Denial_ located at:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/denial-of-science/appendix-3-1.html


> Rudolph Ho'ss is one of the most discredited eye witnesses in the
> story. 

This, of course, is a lie by the Moran (tm). Historians consider Ho"ss a
_credible_ witnessses. (cf. Gutman, _Anotomy_, p.64.) 

> He is the Holocaust story's star witness. His testimony is
> riddled with recognized lies. His testimony says one thing and his
> autobiography says another.

This, of course, is a puerile distortion of fact. The Moran (tm) neglects
to point out that Ho"ss was most frank in describing the details of the
mass murder process at Auschwitz. Only when he wrote in his memoirs about
himslef and his family did he lie to protect them and to obfuscate the
fact that _he_ was responsible for the  _intentional_ brutalities
inflicted on the prisoners at Auschwitz.  (cf. Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_,
pp.1-22.) 

> Mr.Keren would have to admit Ho'ss' numbers for exterminations at
> Auschwitz are contrary to the new recognized numbers, but he will
> select whatever he thinks will support his position and have it
> accepted as solid evidence.

This, of course, is a puerile distortion of fact. The Moran (tm) neglects
to point out that Ho"ss, in his testimony at Kaltenbrunner's trial, gave
an estimate of 2.5 million murdered based on information from Eichmann
and/or Eichmann's staff. When Ho"ss wrote his memoirs he revised the
number murdered, based on his personal recollections, to 1.13 million. A
number that falls within the range that has been generally accepted by
historians for decades. In fact it is basically the same number that Dr.
Piper of the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum arrived at in the 1980's, and
which is now currently the official death toll stated by the museum. (cf.
Ibid. pp.38-39; Gutman, _Anatomy_, pp.62,68-72.)

> Ho'ss was a beaten (physically and mentally) insane person by the
> time he came to testify to anything.

This, of course, both is a puerile distortion of fact and a lie by the
Moran (tm). Ho"ss, in his memoirs, wrote that on his capture by the
British, that he was phsyically abused. However, he _also_ wrote that
while in custody at Nuremberg "was like staying in a health spa." (cf.
Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp.179-180.) In addition, Ho"ss, regarding his
_initial_ imprisonment in Poland awaiting trial, wrote: "If the
prosecutor's office had not intervened, they would have finished me off,
most of all mentally and emotionally. They alsmost had me at the
breaking." However, then Ho"ss immediately goes on to write, "I have to
openly confess I never would have expected to be treated so decently and
so kindly in a Polish prison as I have been since the intervention of the
prosecutir's office." (Ibid. p.189.) 

Furthermore, G.M. Gilbert, the psychologist who examined Ho"ss before he
testified at Kaltenbrunner's trial at Nuremberg, makes no mention
whatsoever of Ho"ss being insane. Gilbert's only comment on Ho"ss's state
of mind was that during their talk, Ho"ss related the details of the mass
murder process at Auschwitz "in a quiet, apathetic, matter-of-fact tone of
voice." (Gilbert, _Nuremberg Diary_, p.249.) 

Clearly, Ho"ss was neither a broken man or insane. 

[Hollow Moranic(tm) breast-beating snipped]

The Moran (tm) is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct  5 11:35:55 PDT 1996
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct  6 11:05:55 PDT 1996
Article: 72120 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Impossible statistics in "Hoess" memoirs
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 21:32:09 -0800
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In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

[snip]

> The figures given in the "Hoess" memoirs are well off the mark. To
> suggest that Eichmann, who ran a department who dealt with Evaculation &
> Jews could come up with such figures, is totally implausible. 

Uh, _why_ is it implausible, Mr. Stumpy? What figures _did_ Eichmann's
department come up with, exactly? 

> But I doubt if Mr Mark Van Alstine could see that, perhaps others can.

Oh, I'm sure other can see just fine, Mr. Stumpy, as do I. What is readily
seen, however, is that you are nothing more than a shallow-minded denier
propagandist who is berift of any meaningful understanding of the factual
details and historical context of the Holocaust. 

Hardly suprising, I might add. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct  7 12:34:42 PDT 1996
Article: 72364 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Auschwitz evidence?
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 10:38:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <32527619.2343924@199.0.216.204>  <3254f600.478177@199.0.216.204>  <32608723.10412736@199.0.216.204>
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In article <32608723.10412736@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <3254f600.478177@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:
> 
> Mr. VanAlstine's introduction to his 200 line response:
> 
> >Here we have the Moran(tm) mindlessly continuing on with his Holocaust
> >denial. His specious claims, half-truths, and outright lies are presented
> >for no other reason (besides being an ignorant bufoon) than the malicious
> >distortion of the historical record to disparge the Holocaust and its
> >victims. Such puerile tactics are the stock-in-trade of Holocuast deniers,
> >Nazi apologists, and anti-Semites like Moran.
> 
> Mr.VanAlstine's closing statement:
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq
> 

The truth hurts, don't it Moran. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct  7 13:47:56 PDT 1996
Article: 72377 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Statistics, Statistics, dammed lies
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 11:22:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <8NIAlMAds+VyEw$d@stumpy.demon.co.uk>, Jeffrey
 wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine
>  writes
> >In article , Jeffrey
> > wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> It is therefore totally impossible to believe that these figures ever
> >> came from SS Obersturmbannfurhrer Karl Eichmann, especially when he was
> >> at the Wannsee Conference, and who headed a department dealing with the
> >> evaculation of the Jews. 
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >Interesting, is it not, Mr. Stumpy, 
> >that when asked about the deportation
> >of Jews from Western and Eastern Europe Eichmann replied, "...Of course I
> >haven't the faintest idea how many were evacuated from these countries,
> >how many shipments were sent out...."  (_Eichmann Interrogated_, p.74.) 
> >
> >Mark
> 
> I expect  SS Oberstrumbannfuhrer Karl Eichmann had some idea. The
> germans seemed to keep "voluminous" records.

Yet, SS Oberstrumbannfuhrer Karl Eichmann, said otherwise. Your
"expectations" are at odds his words. Please explain the contradiction
here. 

> "Among the voluminous original German records stored
> there are tens of thousands of pages from Auschwitz  camp alone. Here
> Graf and Mattogno spent nearly every day of their visit screening an
> estimated 70,000 pages of Auschwitz records.
> Less than five percent of these documents are of relevant interest, Graf
> estimates. They spent little time, for example, going through the 100-
> page file of construction records of horse stables at Auschwitz, or the
> 300 pages concerning the payroll of camp gardeners."

And where these documents in the possesion of Eichmann's department (IB-IV)? 

Now why would Eichmann's department, which he claimed was simply concerned
with arranging transport- to the East -for Jewish deportees, be concerned
with "70,000 pages of Auschwitz records?"

> One is also reminded of the Auschwitz registers, which as i recall total
> about 74,000 deaths at Auschwitz, of which 30,000 are alleged to be
> jewish.

Now why would Eichmann's department, which he claimed was simply concerned
with arranging transport- to the East -for Jewish deportees be concerned
with the "Auschwitz registers?" 

Are you suggesting, Mr. Stumpy, that Eichmann's department WAS involved in
MORE than the mere transport of Jews to the East? That Eichmann and his
department where, in fact, quite involved in the genocide of the European
Jews? That they had intimate knowledge of the extermination process and
detailed numbers of how many Jews were murdered? 

> These books only became "available" this decade, about 50 years old. 

Really? Could you then explain, for instance, the existance of:

APMO, D-AuI-5/1, Morgue Register.
APMO, D-AuI-3/1/3, Occupancy Register.
APMO, D-AuI-3/1a, Bunker Register.

Which, I believe, were referred to in the Ho"ss Trial. 

And while you are at it, Mr. Stumpy, perhaps you would also care to
comment on, for example, some other "Auschwitz registers":

APMO, D-AuI-5/1, Death Register, Infirmary.
APMO, D-AuI-5/3, Prisoner's Infirmary Register of Block 28.
APMO, D-AuI-2/5, Admissions List.
APMO, D-RF-3/121/Gestapo Berlin/Auschwitz Transports. 

[Mr. Stumpy's paranoid Soviet "conspiracy" smear snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct  7 14:40:26 PDT 1996
Article: 72391 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Haphazard state of affairs
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 12:38:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
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In article <32618744.10445636@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> Mr.VanAlstine's opening statement to his 320 line reply:
> >Here we have yet another example of Holocaust denial by the Moran (tm).
> >His specious claims, innuendo, and unsupports assertions are presented for
> >no other reason than the malicious distortion of the historical record so
> >as to disparge the Holocaust and its victims. Such puerile tactics are the
> >stock-in-trade of Holocuast deniers, anti-Semites, and Nazi apologists
> >like the Moran (tm).
> 
> 
> Mr.VanAlstine's closing statement:
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

The truth really bugs you, eh, Moran? Good.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct  7 17:13:17 PDT 1996
Article: 72418 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!newshub.tc.umn.edu!mr.net!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Big Gas Chamber
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 12:36:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 121
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References: <52touq$rns@lex.zippo.com>  <5363f7$5eb@lex.zippo.com>
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In article <5363f7$5eb@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

[snip]

> In one paragraph you say he lies and in the next paragraph you say he
> wasn't wrong on the important items. 

No, Mr. Carpenter, I said in some things Nyiszli was simply _wrong_. That
happens sometimes with eyewitnesses. There is no clear evidence that he
_lied_. (Your insinuations, btw, further evidence your mendacity and
denier prejudices.) As to the imprtant items? Would you not say that
witnessing people being murdered in a gas chamber is _more_ important than
desdcribing the exact dimensions of the gas chamber? I would. Or do you
consider, for example, that the color Zyklon B is more important than the
fact that innocent men, women, and children were murdered in gas chambers
with it by the Nazis? 

> Last week you told me that I was being selective, now you do it. 

Hardly. When you, Mr. Carpenter, _deceitfully_ tried to hold up _one_
obscure book on the Holocaust as an example that the "consistency" of the
Holocaust was "proving to be elusive" I pointed out, to your chagrin, the
deceitfullness in your claim. I pointed out, in essence, that to hold up
_one_ (obscure) example of claims about the Holocaust be representative of
all examples was simply you being disingenous. Likewise, your continued
disingenouity in regards to my correcting your misprepresentation of
_Approaches to 
Auschwitz_  by referencing Nyiszli simply confirms your decietfullness.

You seem to be, Mr. Carpenter, unable to discern the difference between
your selectively misrepresenting details of the Holocaust (i.e. citing
>from  _one_ source that Belzac used Zyklon B as evidence implying that the
Holocaust was inconsistant) with my cross-checking Nyiszli's eyewitness
account with other sources, such as the Bauleitung construction drawings,
to discern a more accurate account of the homicidal gassings that took
place at Auschwitz. 

I find this quite unsuprising. It is a typical denier strawman. 

> As for Pressac, I'll get to it, thanks.

Please do, Mr. Carpenter. It _might_ make things a bit clearer for you. 

> >Research is all, Mr. Carpenter. You should try it some time.
> OK.
> 
> >BTW, Mr. Carpenter, the hair of the victims was cut both before and after
> >gassings depending on period. During Aktions Ho"ss, for instance, when
> >nearly 400,000 Hungarian Jews were murdered in less than three months, the
> >(female) victims' hair wash shorn _after_ they were gassed to death.
> >Earlier, in 1943, victims had their heads shaved _before_ they were
> >murdered. 
> Good paragraph. Can you point me to the sources of this?
> 
> I have gone back and reread the section in question, in
> Approaches To Auschwitz.  It is not indicated that Nyiszli
> is a sometime liar or sometime truthteller.

The likely explination, Mr. Carpenter, is because many historians have not
pursued, for various reasons, the details of the physical construction of
the homicidal installations at Auschwitz. This is not a particularly
serious problem for historians in general, as they do not rely on a
_single_ eyewitness testimony, such as Nyiszli's, to "prove" the
Holocaust. The Holocaust is "proven" by the enourmous amount of
corroborating evidence available: eyewitness testimony (both survivor, and
Nazi), documentation (both survivor and Nazi), and the physical evidence
of Nazi genocide, etc. 

It is a fundemental flaw in the denier position, Mr. Carpenter, that
deniers try to "disprove" the Holocaust on isolated details, which even
then they often misrepresent or fabricate, while (intentionally) ignoring
the "big picture" and how the great body of evidence of the Holocaust is
self-corroborating.

Such behavior is completely unsupportable and quite irrational. But then,
given that Holocaust deniers typically are motivated by anti-Semitism and
Nazi recidivism, such behavior is hardly suprising.

> If Nyiszli tells tall tales, why did the authors use him as a source?

Because, Niszli had some important things to say. Try reading his memoirs
with an open mind for once. 

> Did Rubenstein and Roth believe his big gas chamber story?

Why don't _you_ ask Rubenstein and Roth? 

> I should have known better myself since on page 156 it says that
> Sonderkommandos dragged the victims to the SS marksmen, where they
> were shot in the head.  "Dead or still alive, the victims were then
> thrown on the burning pyre.  The majority of the victims were in fact
> burned alive.  More than six thousand victims a day were put to death
> in this fashion " (Nyiszli, Auschwitz, pp 68-71).

 

And you conclude this proves exactly what, Mr. Carpenter? That because,
during Aktion Ho"ss, at Bunker 2, where prisoners were often shot and then
tossed (dead or alive) into the incineration pits, that they had their
hair shorn first?  And your evidence for this is, Mr. Carpenter? 

Interesting then that David Olere, a survivor, has a sketch (dating from
1945) showing Moll shooting women (and children) at the edge of an
incineration pit (with Krema V in the background). The women had their
hair. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.497.) Could it be, perhaps, that during
the insanity of Aktion Ho"ss, that not all the women had their hair shorn?
Like, for instance, the ones who ended up being shot at the edge of the
incineration pits instead of being gassed to death in the Kremas or bunker
2? The places where, btw, the Sonderkommados who clipped hair and pulled
teeth, etc. were located? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct  7 17:13:18 PDT 1996
Article: 72420 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 14:09:02 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 69
Message-ID: 
References: <32527622.2352327@199.0.216.204> <52ucoo$6qt@juliana.sprynet.com> <325f5eac.32507754@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <530gcb$isc@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <325a8d70.60694386@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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In article <325a8d70.60694386@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
> 
> >John Morris (jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca) wrote:
> 
> 
> >: It is rather telling that our great Holocaust researcher, rblackmore,
> >: fails to recognize that Moran's account does not match the standard
> >: narrative history. For instance, no one but Moran has claimed that
> >: gassing at Auschwitz was stopped four or five months before the camp
> >: was captured by the Soviets.
> 
> >I missed the beginning of this thread.  Is the difference between moran's
> >claim and the truth significant, or is it just another example of his
> >sloppy "research" methods?
> 
> I was a little sloppy, too. Moran actually said that "it is said" that
> gassing stopped at Auschwitz-Birkenau four or five months before the
> Soviets captured the camp. I think he was trying to suggest that the
> Soviets have been credited with an unrealistic prescience by
> destroying evidence (the Kremas) so long before the Soviets occupued
> the camp.
> 
> The SS, however, began dismantling the Kremas after the gassing
> stopped in November 1944, two months before the Soviets arrived.
> 
> I dunno. Is a difference of two or three months vs two months
> significant? Given the rate of the Soviet advance, allowing only two
> months to remove capital assets from Birkenau was almost cutting
> things too fine, since the Kremas were dynamited only days before the
> Soviets arrived.
> 

The "difference," I think, has more to do with the German Army than with
the plans of the SS to erase the evidence of genocide at Birkenau. Hitler,
after being warned by Guderian in early January that the German forces on
the Eastern front were overextended and needed to be reinforced and
consolidated, failed to appreciate the precarioius position the German
Army was in -and the dire threat a new offensive by the Red Army would
pose.  

The result of Hitler's egotism was that when the Red Army launched its
January 12, 1944, offensive the German positions on the Eastern Front
promptly collapsed, sending the German forces into a pell-mell retreat.
This, of course, immediately- and unexpectedly -exposed the entire
Auchwitz region to capture by the Red Army. The result was that all the
plans and execution of the methodical erasure of the killings
installations at Birkenau went right out the window around January 14,
1944, as it became quite evident that the German lines would not hold.
Thus, it was decided that the Auschwitz complex would be hastily abandoned
on January 17, 1944, and was indeed evacuated starting the next day.

In the panic of the evacuation, and almost as an afterthought, Kremas II,
III, V, were dyanmited and the 30 storerooms in Kanada, holding plunder
>from  the murdered victims, were torched.  

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  8 08:34:43 PDT 1996
Article: 72548 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer - head up arse again...
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 22:15:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References:   <53a2re$102@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53bb91$8bd@bell.maths.tcd.ie>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.188.109.146
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In article , ellegon@ibm.net (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> In article  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel
Keren) writes:
> 
> 
> >Just look at him - a person who claims to have an IQ of 163,
> >yet has been unemployed since the age of 46, and who cannot
> >grasp basic arithmetic, nor highschool physics and chemistry.
> 
> >He's full of hate, he's frustrated and mad as hell, so he resorts
> >to the old Goebbels tactic  - lying and slandering his opponents.
> 
> >That's all he can do. That's how he was born, that's how he lives,
> >that's how he will die. No one can help him.
> 
> I'm not at all sure that's true.  With the advances in antipsychotic 
> psychopharmacology, there may well be hope for him, yet.   

Or a good ol' frontal labotomy. That'll do the trick as well....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  8 08:34:44 PDT 1996
Article: 72552 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Demolition of Moranian rigii?
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 22:13:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References: <32527619.2343924@199.0.216.204>  <32608723.10412736@199.0.216.204>  <53bo3h$e0u@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <53bo3h$e0u@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> In article , 
> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
> >> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
> >>
>http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
> >> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
> >> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq
> 
> >The truth hurts, don't it Moran. 
> 
> Not if the Morans cannot find it. They are, as you know, Riggi-Impaired,
> Bandwidth-Impaired and Moranically-Impaired.... (all and all, not bad when 
> compared to those self-besotted, Giwerly-Impaired trolls.)
> 
> Has not Morans, themself, said clearly that they were incapable of 
> downloading images from Nizkor sites? Surely you recall that neither 
> Mr. Moran was able to attain files in a timely manner, in spite of 
> the T1 bandwidth?
> 
> In spite of that, what did _you_ do? You teased Moran, _and_ Moran, by 
> dangling a T1 URL in front of them/him. For SHAME, Sir, for SHAME.
> 
> If I were you, knowing that neither Moran, nor Moran, nor his sisters 
> Moran are capable of finding, let alone using, a T1 site, I would have 
> directed him to one of the 128K sites. He would, clearly, have thought it 
> faster, 128 being a much larger number than 1, and thanked you for your 
> help, instead of feeling insulted as they must.



So true. I forgot (for a moment only) whom I was addressing: The
Three-in-one Stooges. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  8 08:34:45 PDT 1996
Article: 72557 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Subject: Re: Zundelsite on Zundel's UFO Investigations
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 1996 22:41:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <5346mb$nan@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <535802$sqj@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <536275$a72@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca><5346mb$nan@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <535802$sqj@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <536275$a72@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <53a4jn$d8u@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53cie4$g7i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:72557 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2981

In article <53cie4$g7i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <53a4jn$d8u@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> -
> gmiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer)Mon, 07 Oct 1996 05:30:26 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>
> :>      What is the point when the dickless wonder Ken McVay continues
to violate
> :>his contract and disgrace the OBC (if real) be announcing that he is
> :>criminally violating Canadian copyright law?  
> 
> I have met Mr. McVay and I can attest that he is indeed a wonder.  I have
> never seen any evidence--for or against--that he is dickless.  I do wonder
> though, why the Giwer-troll has such a fascination with male sexual apparatus
> lately.  Must be lonely, with just his bottle and his hate to "console" him.

Hmmm. Considering the Giwer-eunuch's apparent fixation with male
genitalia, I wonder if the Giwer-eunuch guzzles tequila with a worm in the
bottle...

If so, how Freudian!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 08:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 72872 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 06:46:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <32588771.59158479@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <53d7sb$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325c37a5.27541464@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
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In article <325c37a5.27541464@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >>   jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
> 
> [arguments answered by Gord McFee]  
>   
> >>  >When do you think the gassings at Auschwitz stopped, Mr. Morris?
>   
> >>  November 1944. About two months before the camp was captured by the
> >>  Soviets.
> 
> >No.  It was alleged to have stopped at the end of October, four months
> >before the liberation of the camp.
> 
> End of October, beginning of November. Big deal.

Indeed. It seems Herr Schwarzesel likes to pick nits. Well, then, here's
one for him to chew on: 

"The last victims to undergo selection was a transport from
Theresienstadt, which arrived on October 30,1944. The next transport, from
Sered, which arrived on November 3, 1944, was registered in the camp
register in its entirety." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.174.

The note to the above is as follows:

"73. According to H.G. Adler, gassings in Auscwhitz were discontinued on
November 2, 1944; Adler, _Thereseinstadt 1941-1945_ (Tu"bingen, 1955),
p.694." (Ibid. p.181.)


> However, as the camp was liberated in January 1945, you should do the
> arithmetic again.

Indeed he should. So far, it's starting to look like Herr Schwarzesel's
arithmetic skills are positively Moranic (tm). 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 12:22:46 PDT 1996
Article: 161336 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 13:25:42 PDT 1996
Article: 72903 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hans Muench testimony:a sick joke
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:48:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <534qql$1ml@Vir.com>  <53f5is$d2g@Vir.com> <325bb4b8.1524783@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <53gifp$fun@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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In article <53gifp$fun@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> In article <325bb4b8.1524783@news.srv.ualberta.ca>, 
> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> 
> >It is quite true that the Kremas were visible from the "local" farms.
> >It is also quite true that those farms had been confiscated from their
> >former Polish owners and were operated entirely by the SS using inmate
> >labour.
> 
> Several Polish farmers in that area are interviewed in Shoah -
> they provide clear evidence that spending too much time paying
> attention to Auschwitz was unhealthy.

Actually, I think it was in regards to Treblinka and not Auschwitz. I
looked through _Shoah_ (the book) and couldn't find mention where Polish
farmers around Auschwitz were interviewed. I did, however, find that
villagers from Treblinka were interviewed. In particular Czeslaw Borowi,
who's father had a farm right next to the Treblinka extermination camp.
(cf. Lanzmann, _Shoah_, pp.17-24.)

posted/e-mailed

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 13:25:42 PDT 1996
Article: 72905 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let's Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:53:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <53f694$r6i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53g7lq$t04@juliana.sprynet.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53g7lq$t04@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> >  In message <53d45i$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com8 Oct 1996
> >
>   As usual, you avoid
> >  :>the subject.
> >  
> >  As usual, you show the truth of my post with your evasions and snotty
insults.
> >  
> >  --
> >  Gord McFee
> >  I'll write no line before its time
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> What is your idea of an insult?  How about this?
> "Nazi boy"?  "Jellybelly"? "Schwarzesel" etc., etc. Until you decide to 
> abide by honorable rules of conduct in a debate,
> I shall refrain from answering any of your posts,
> as I have refrained from answering those of your
> pal, Van Alstine.  When you are ready to resume
> discussion under proper conditions, e-mail me.

Such chutzpuh! Herr Schwarzesel speaks of "abide[ing] by honorable rules of
conduct in a debate" (Ha!) out of one side of his mouth while, out of the other,
he makes unsubstantiated, specious, and patently false claims -which he
then tries to paper over with lies, insults, and puerile evasions. And of
course, when all that fails he simply runs away and refuses to answer. 

Alas, such is the typical behavior of lying scumbag Nazi aplogists, of
which Herr Schwarzesel is most certainly one.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 13:25:43 PDT 1996
Article: 72907 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: We Three-Bergen Belsen, Brian Harmon, and Me
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:00:44 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <53g8k2$t04@juliana.sprynet.com>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53g8k2$t04@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> >  # After the British took over the camp they were faced
> >  # with the same problems as Kramer, but have no fear-
> >  # the British are here---and funny thing, in spite of food,
> >  # water, and medicine and quality care 28,000 more died.
> >  
> >  They died because they were already in a hopeless state,
> >  after being treated by your great hero, Joseph Kramer. Had 
> >  the Brits arrived a few days later, probably no inmate would
> >  have survived.
> >  
> >  
> >  -Danny Keren.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Danny, try to stop stretching the truth for once in
> your life.

Herr Schwarzesel, try _telling_ the truth for once in your life!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 18:04:44 PDT 1996
Article: 161337 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:50:39 -0800
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct  9 18:04:46 PDT 1996
Article: 161338 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 10 01:08:08 PDT 1996
Article: 72947 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 17:49:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 102
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

>  Hilberg claim that crema IV had many problems, but gives few details
>  and references.

Citation please? 

>  Pressac is giving much more details, in the french edition (Les crematoires
>  d'Auschwitz) he based his claims on German documents: basically the
>  crema IV is not just submitted to few problems, but is no longer used
>  after may 1943. On page 81 he says that krema V is no longer used
>  after september 1943 because kremas 2 and 3 are suffisant.
>  I've try today to take a look at it again to see on what he base
>  his claim, but for Pressac it's sometimes hard to know in advance
>  if a claim is really based on a document or not. The book was borrowed,
>  unfortunatelly, but I don't believe he invented that totally.
> 
>  Is there any documentary evidence, german documents, tha cremas 4 and
>  5 were used after sept 1943? Something that may contradict Pressac's 
>  claim? 

According to Pressac: 

"Slama Dragon, another former prisoner, heard by the examining Judge Jan
Sehn on 10th and 11th May 1945, states that he was detailed to Krematorium
V in the autimn of 1943 and worked there until May 1944. He states that he
was employed on gardening, wood cutting, and coke transport [for which
Krema-torium?] as a member of the Sonderkommando of Kr V which was out of
service throughout this period and whose furnaces where not reactivated
until the arrival of the first transport of HUngarian Jews. He
subsequently confirms that in May 1944 Krematorium V was brought back into
service, but that at the very begining of the Hngarian action the furnace
of Krematorium IV was used to cremate the victims because that of V was
out of order. He then reports that the Jews were burnt in five ditches dug
behind Krematorium V.

"Dragon's statements concerning Krematorium V are now confirmed, but doubt
remains about the use of Krematoium IV furnace." (Pressac, _Technique_,
p.380.) 

According to Henry Tauber: 

"...It was realized that the pits pits burned the corpses better [than the
furnaces], so the Krematorien closed down one after the other after the
pits came into operation. The first to be stopped was Krematorien IV,
apparantly in June 1944 [this date may sem early, but reference to other
accounts where this tyupe of information is given indirectly rather than
explcitly], then in October 1944, I think, Krematorien II and III.
Krematorium V was kept going until the Germans fled. Towards the end, it
was used to incinerate the bodies of prisoners who died naturally or were
executed...." (Ibid. pp.500-501.) 

However, according to Ho"ss:

"...Because of the wartime shortage of materials, the builders were forced
to economize during the construction of Crematories [IV and V]. They were
built above ground and the ovens were not as solidly constructed. It soon
became apparent , however, that the poor construction of these two ovens,
each with four retorts, did not meet the requirements. Crematory [IV]
failed completely after a short time and later was not used at all.
Crematory [V] had to be repeatedly shut down, since after its fires had
been burning for four to six weeks the ovens or the chimneys burned out.
The gassed bodies were mostly burned in pits behind Crematory [V]."
(Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp.36-37.)

That Krema IV suffered from initial problems is supported by a letter,
dated April 4, 1943, from JA Topf & Sons to the Auschwitz Bauleitung. The
contents of the letter is as follows:

"...In reply to your letter mentioned above, we would inform you that we
have requested our site foreman, Herr Koch, to repair the fissures that
have apparantly recently appeared in the 8-muffle furnace of Krematorium
IV. At the same time we have noted the agreement made between your Head of
Constrruction, SS Major Bischoff and our chief engineer, Herr Pru"fer,
according to which we are to make good any defects in the cremation
furnace built by us that should appear within 2 months after its coming
into service, at no cost to you. This is naturally subject to the
precondition that any defects that may appear are the result of faulty
construction and not, for example, caused by overheating the furnace or
damaging the internal lining with fire irons, etc...." (Document 10;
Pressac, _Technique_, p.388.)

Thus according to Presscac, in _Anatomy_:

"The double four-muffle furnace in crematorium IV functioned well for only
a short time. It soon began to show problems because Pru"fer, in his haste
to lower its price, had oversimplified it. After only two weeks of
intensive operation, the furnace split open. Kock filled the cracks with
fire-proof rammed earth, but they reappeared. By mid-May the furnace was
again out of service, and crematorium IV ceased to be used, once and for
all." (Gutman, _Anatomy, p.234.)


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 10 01:08:09 PDT 1996
Article: 72948 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I always get the feeling
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 18:06:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article ,
Kneeland  wrote:

[Kneeland's knee-jerking snipped]

> So, I checked out the air-photo site and it is pretty good. 

Care to be specific? 

> What do you holocaust promoters give as a rebuttal to those aerial photos? 

Care to be specific in which photos you'd like a rebuttal to? 

> What about the Jewish truthseeker's (Cole's) questions? Why is there more
> zyklon B contamination in offices than in 'gas chambers'?

Care to be specific? Which offices and which gas chambers? 

[Kneeland's knee-jerking snipped]


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 10 09:30:06 PDT 1996
Article: 73011 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 23:23:30 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com> <3253DC8A.67AE@rio.com> <535ksp$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <325687EF.2534@rio.com> <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>
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In article <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

[snip]

> Ho:ss ran a killing machine and you believe him? 

For the most part, yes. Ho"ss was quite frank in describing the killing
process at Auschwitz. 

> I don't believe anything the enemy says.  

Thank goodness you weren't in charge of MAGIC then! We'd have lost the
Battle of the Atlantic and Midway both!

> The Germans were our enemy. I would listen to what they had to say, 
> but at a greatly discounted rate.

Mr. Carpenter,

Would you listen to Jewish survivors? 

Would you listen to non-Jewish witnesses? 

Would you listen to the Soviets, who were (nominal) allies? 

Would you listen to the Poles, who were allies? 

Would you listen to the French, who were allies? 

Would you listen to the British, who were close allies? 

Would you listen to United States Army? 

> >> >> Chuck, you have alot of books, can you tell me if the Zyklon B
> >> >> retained the blue color after use?  Thanks.
> 
> >I think you are setting a trap here! I don't think anybody can say 
> >that the "gas" had any color. It was colorless, and odorless. If you 
> >have information to the contrary please share it with us.
> 
> The color of the gas was not the question.  The question was:
> Did the pellets retain the blue color after all the gas was used up?
> No traps from me, Chuck,  just simple questions.

Mr. Carpenter, why don't you take a look for yourself and get back to us:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images/zyklon-color.jpg


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 10 16:21:01 PDT 1996
Article: 73107 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 15:24:54 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <53jm7e$ide@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> >  In message <53fsgr$n8q@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  :>
> >  :>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> >  :>
> >  :>>  The fact that European Jewry was not exterminated has nothing 
> >  :>>  to do with whether the Nazis _tried_ to exterminate European Jewry.  
> >  :>>  But you knew that.
> >  :>
> >  :>I have to disagree with that one completely. 
> >  :> If it had been their intention to exterminate the Jews
> >  :>within their sphere of control, then there would not
> >  :>have been a survivor left.  The very fact that only
> >  :>25% of France's Jewish population was ever deported
> >  :>disproves your thesis.
> >  
> >  Oh bullshit, Mr. "Blackmore".  Simply to state an intent means that one is
> >  100% successful or the intent was never stated?  What rubbish.  They 
> >  managed to kill 90% of Polish Jews.  Is that a high enough percentage for 
> >  you, or would you prefer they had killed the entire 100%?
> >
> Prove they killed 90% of Poland's Jews.  

Really now, Herr Schwarzesel! For such a self-proclaimed (ad nauseum)
"researcher" of the Holocaust I'm simply _shocked_ (!) that you seem to be
"unaware" that Hilberg, for instance, estimated the Jewish population loss
>from  the Holocaust by taking the difference between the European Jewish
populations in 1939 and 1945. In 1939 the Jewish population of Poland was
estimated at 3,350,000 and in 1945 at 50,000. (cf. Hilberg, _Destruction_,
Table 89, p.670.)

Given that no account that excludes the Nazi mass murder of these
"missing" 3,300,000 Jews is supported by the historical evidence, it is
therefore self-evident that the Nazis murdered these 3,300,000 people. 

> You are ignoring the fact that the majority of Italy's Jews, as well as 
> Hungary's were not deported as well.  

Herr Schwarzesel, according to the pre-war ond post-war population
differences cited by Hilberg, Italy's Jewish population was estimated at
50,000 (1939) and 33,000 (1945). Hungary's was 400,000 (1939) and 200,000
(1945). (cf. Ibid.) 

That, by my reckoning, Herr Schwarzesel, would be 50& of the Jewish
population of Hungary. 

However, in the footnote to Table 89 it is noted that the pre-war and
post-war borders for the countries were used. Not all countries had the
same borders at the start of the war as at the end. This makes populatoin
loss estimates trickier. An example of this would be in estimating the
Jewish population loss of Hungary. While Hilberg estimates Hungary (circa
1939) as having a population of 400,000 the Nazis (circa 1942), at the
Wannsee Conference estimated the Hungarian population at 742,000. (cf.
Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.375.) 

Hillberg's estimate of the 1939 Hungarian Jewish population appears to be
at odds with the deportation figures given by the reports forwarded to the
German Foreign Office by Edmund Veesenmayer, the Nazi plenipotentiary in
Budapest. Veesenmayer, on July 13, 1944, reported that 437,402 Jews were
deported from Hungary and "had been taken to their destination" -i.e.
Auschwitz. At this point, due to intervention of the Hungarian government
which was under considerable international pressure (and the rapidly
advancing Red Army), the deportation of Jews from Hungary was halted -thus
sparing the Jews in Budepest.  (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, 465-466.

This, by my reckoning, Herr Schwarzesel, would mean that if Hilberg's 1939
pre-war population was used that (over) 100% of the Hungarian Jewish
population was deported. However, as the Jews in Budapest _weren't_
deported, it is self-evident that the Hungarian Jewish population in early
1944 was greater than 438,000. Using the Nazi estimate of 742,000 for the
Hungarian Jewish population, as well as Nazi deportation figures, would
mean that almost 60% of the Hungarian jewish poulation was deported. 

And, Herr Schwarzesel, the last time I checked 60% _was_ a majority.

As for Italy? I am again simply _shocked_ (!), Herr Schwarzesel, that
such  a self-proclaimed (ad nauseum) "researcher" of the Holocaust as
yourself could so blithley miss the fact that Italy was Germany's closest
partner, up until it surrendered, and therefore enjoyed enournous
autonomy. Furthermore, you seem to also be quite unaware that Italy, until
its surrender to the Allies and subsequent occupation by Germany,
_refused_ to deport its Jewish population to the Nazis. Of course, as soon
as the Nazis occupied Italy, the _Nazis_ deported Italian Jews. 

> I fail to see the connection, then, with an intent to exterminate all
the Jews 
> who fell within the Nazi orbit.  

Herr Schwarzesel, you _fail_ to see the connection because you _refuse_ to
do any _research_. If you had you would have clearly realized that when
the Nazis occupied a country or territory they soon instigated a pogrom of
extermination against (at the minimum) the Jewish population there.

Alas, I suppose, however, that expecting a lying scumbag Nazi apologist to
do some honest research for once is too much to ask for....

[Herr Schwarzesel's insincere and banal caveat snipped.] 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 11 00:35:30 PDT 1996
Article: 73215 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 20:02:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <53dbhm$hth@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Be sure to remember this the next time you accuse
> me of never providing sources.

Your citation is incomplete, Herr Schwarzesel. What PAGE was the van Roden
quote on that you used? 

Be sure to remember this the next time you try and dodge giving a proper
citiation.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 11 00:35:31 PDT 1996
Article: 73216 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Is that gas I smell-reply to M.Curtis
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 20:02:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <53d99a$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 02:03:31 GMT mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:

[snip]


> > You left out that the younger Topf withdrew with American troops 
> >from an area that was to become a Soviet zone
> 
> Yes.  I didn't think it was that important.  At any rate, anyone may read
> the text for themselves at their library, or purchase the book. 

Oh, Herr Schwarzesel, you are _such_ a comedian! "I didn't think it was
that important." ROTFL! First you make _such_ a big deal over Ludwig
Topf's suicide, clearly implying that he was done away with by the
Americans, and yet, when his brother- who is _also_ a director of Topf and
has equally bloody hands -skips town without the Americans noticing or
even caring, all you can say is "I didn't think it was that important" 

Right.

You are such _lame_ lying scumbag Nazi apologist, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> >The fate of Pruefer is unknown.......
> >
> >The author suggests that what happened to Braun possibly happened to
> >Prüfer and the other engineers. why leave it out?
> 
> I did not get that impression.

You also did not think that Ernst-Wolfgang Topf skipping out "was that
important" either. This isn't refelcting well on your analytical
abilities, Herr Schwarzesel....

[snip]

> > Plus architects of the crematoria was in quotes in te
> >authors article. 
>  
> Well, it is no crime to build crematorium, is it? Either way,
> they were both declared not guilty of any crime.

Either way, Herr Schwarzesel, you misquoted _Anatomy_. And now you
compound you indiscretion by trying to obfuscate that fact, like a lying
scumbag Nazi apologist, instead of simply admitting that you  misquoted
_Anatomy_ and correcting yourself.

> >This is why the authors put "architechts of the crematoria" in
> >quotations just as I have.
> 
> Then WHY were they charged?

"Only two members of the Zentralbauleitung, Walter Dejaco, and Fritz Ertl,
wentr before a tribunal. Dejaco had personally monitored all the
blueprints as head of the blueprint section. Ertl was indicted because he
had presided over the infamous meeting with Pru"fer and Ko"hler at
Auschwitz on August 19, 1942, when Bischoff was in Berlin, and had
countersigned a few blueprints for the new crematorium. The trial of the
'two architects of the crematoria' in Vienna in January 1972 ended with
the release of both." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.240.) 

And yet you ask why were they charged? Your obtuseness is amazing, Herr
Schwarzesel. Obviously, the above is too subtle for a lying scumbag Nazi
apologist like you to grasp. 

> >I believe that Mark has covered the rest of your distortions.
> 
> With his own distortions, I am sure.  I don't even read them anymore. 

I'm sure it's because my posts scare the crap out you, Herr Schwarzesel. I
find it rather easy to expose your lies and ignorance -especially now that
you seem determined to jump in the gutter with the Giwer-eunuch. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 11 09:07:51 PDT 1996
Article: 73301 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MORE MISREPERSENTATIONS FROM THE HOLOCAUST HATE PROPAGANDISTS
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 19:58:22 -0800
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In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> Pressac, a holocaust liar, DELIBERATELY MISREPERSENTS the details of
> the visit of SS officer Pohl to Auschwitz:
> 
> Start Quote:- 
> 
> [The Chief of the SS-WVHA, General of the SS Army Corps Pohl, presented
> himself unexpectedly in morning of the 23rd of September at Auschwitz to
> learn what was going  on, and where the assigned tons of Zyclon B were
> going. Pohl went first to the Bauleitung, and had the general set-up of
> the camp  explained to him, and the buildings that had been erected,
> those under construction (including the four crematories of  Birkenau)
> and those planned described to him. His question on Zyclon B was
> answered that with this product the jews and the lice were destroyed at
> the same time.]
> 
> 
> Pressac's source for the above is the diary of Johann Kremer  published
> in Auschwitz vu par le SS (Edition du Musee d'Etat a Oswiecim)
> [AUSCHWITZ viewed by  the SS (Edition of the State Museum at Oswiecim
> 1974)], pages 233 and 234 (notes 182 and 183 on p. 105). 
> 
> In reality, these two pages from the end of page 233 to the end of page
> 234, read as follows:
> 
> 
> [In the morning, Obergruppenfuhrer Pohl arrived with his entourage, at
> the residence of the Waffen SS. In front of the door a sentinel. For the
> first time I am presented arms. The evening at 20 hours; dinner at the
> SS Officers Club in the company of Obergruppenfuhrer  Pohl: a real
> feast. We were served fried pike all we wanted, real coffee, an
> excellent beer and some sandwiches.]
> 
> That is all. the rest is the product of Pressac's imagination. 
> 
> End Quote:
> 
> from 
> 
> Auschwitz: The End of a Legend, Page 50, by Carlo Mattogno....

[Jeffrey's denier proselytizing snipped]

Actually, it reads:

"September 23, 1942.  This night was present at the 6th and 7th special
actions. _Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl with suite arrived at the _Waffen SS_
club-house in the morning. The sentinel presented arms in front of me for
the first time. At 8 o'clock in the evening supper in the Home with
_Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl, a truly festive meal. We had baked pike, as
much of it as we wanted, real coffee, excellent beer and sandwiches." (_KL
Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220.)

> the rest is the product of Pressacs imagination. 

Perhaps. Let us examine what else Pressac has to say in this regard:

"In order to combat the typhus epidemic that was raging through the camp n
August 1942, it was necessary to eliminate the vector of the disease,
lice. The most effective delousing agent was Zyklon-B, and without this
product it would be impossible to eradicate the disease. On the eve of the
<> order [July 23, 1942 - MV], authorization was received by
radio to send a 5-tonne truck [officially classified 4.5 tonnes and
capable of carrying a payload of 4950 kg on the road and 4100 kg off-road,
and with a capacity of approximately 20 m3] to Dessau, to the Zyklon-B
plant in order to collect <>. On 29th July authorization was received
for another truck to go to Dessau to load <>. These two trucks would have brought back a maximum of
4,000 to 5,000 on kilogramme cans of Zyklon-B, if this was the size
chosen. ON 26th August, Zyklon-B was running out or lacking, and a Renault
truck (probably 3.5-tonne AHN) was sent to Dessau, this time for
<>. On 2nd October, while the epidemic was
still present, having reached a peak in September, the camp required
<>. Finally, on 7th January
1943, to keep control of the now endemic typhus, another truck was sent to
Dessau for <>. These five movement authorizations
are the only ones in existence that mention this type of transport. They
reflect the two different utilizations of Zyklon-B. But in what
proportion? 

"As we know the quantity of Zyklon-B delivered, the dose necessary to kill
one thousand people (according to Camp Commandant Hoess) and the number of
people gassed during this period (obtained from the <>) it is
easy to determine the percentage used for each purpose over the period
22nd July to 26th August: 2 to 3% for homicidal gassing and 97% for
disinfestation purposes. This extremely surprising distribution totally
invalidates the interpretations and presentation of these
<> by the traditional historians, who claim that the word
<> was used to camouflage>> homicidal gassings and that a
gigantic massacre was going on, an argument supported by the <>
image of big trucks scurrying back and forth between Auschwitz and Dessau,
bringing back 5 tonnes of Zyklon-B on each trip (a quantity of 5,000 kg is
enough to kill 1,250,000 people, more than the total number of Jews sent
to Auschwitz!). 

"The truth is that the SS used the extermination of the Jews, about which
their superiors had a general knowledge, without being informed of the
practical details, to hide the terrible hygienic conditions in the camp,
and to cover up their enormous consumption of gas for disinfestation
purposes. If the knowledge of the disastrous state of affairs had reached
Berlin, this would have had unfortunate consequences for Hoess, who had
recently been congratulated by Himmler and promoted in rank, and for his
entourage. What did the Auschwitz SS care, in the month of August 1942,
about twenty or thirty thousand Jews killed in the seclusion of of the
Birkenwald forest at the cost of a hundred kilos of Zyklon-B, when their
own lives were at risk and the very existence of the camp threatened? It
was necessary at all costs to stop the epidemic, which led to the  radical
and extremely effective solution of gassing all the sick or convalescing 
prisoners so as to get rid of both the lice AND THEIR CARRIERS [<>, Kalendarium... p.85]. So the SS made the Jews take the
blame (the usual practice) for the huge Zyklon-B requirements, in order
not to be accused of incompetence in the running of the camp and lack of
control over the conditions obtaining there. However, this strategy was to
have very long term effects because of the duration of the epidemic and
the discovery of the sad truth by the higher authorities in September. 
That the SS should have worded two transport authorizations in such a way
that after the war they should become crushing proof linking the Jews,
their resettlement and special treatment with hydrocyanic gas, together
meaning the death for those unable to work, becomes something of a
statistical miracle when we consider the proportions in which the gas was
used: 2 to 3% homicidal as against 97 or 98% disinfestation. The terms
used in these authorizations, generally considered today to be
incriminating slips, were deliberately used by the SS in what was a
desperate period for them, when they were submerged by an epidemic and
were trying to escape responsibility for this scourge for which they were
in fact at least half responsible. (_Technique_, p.188)

Oddly enough, there is no mention, in this passage, of
_Obergruppenfu"hrer_ Pohl's September 23, 1942, visit to Auschwitz to "to
learn what was going  on, and where the assigned tons of Zyklon B were
going" - and no reference to Kramer's diary. The only implicit reference
would be: "However, this strategy was to have very long term effects
because of the duration of the epidemic and the discovery of the sad truth
by the higher authorities in September."

But which higher authorities? Only 18 pages later in the text, outside the
context of the discussion above, do we come across any such specific
mention:

"SS Lieutenant-General Pohl, head of the SS-WVHA, inspected the Auschwitz
camp on 23rd September and was able to see that an epidemic was raging
there." (Ibid. p.206) 

And...

"Probably at Pohl's request, Dr. Ernst Robert Grawitz, Head of the German
Red Cross, made a thorough inspection of the camp on 25th September. He
saw the sick quarters overflowing, corpse storage, the temporary water
treatment installations, the extermination of the Jews and the
incineration of the corpses in open-air ditches." (Ibid.)

Pohl's visit, mentioned in Kramer's diary above, simply notes that the
_Obergruppenfu"hrer_ arrived at the _Waffen SS_ club-house in the morning
and that at 8 o'clock in the evening he had supper in the Ho"ss residence
(the "Home.") It does not detail what Pohl did in between. 

Kramer, in his diary, also noted Grawitz's visit:

"September 25, 1942. Gruppenfu"hrer Grawitz visited the hospital and the
camp. During the visit he asked me what a physician should, first of all,
prescribe in all cases of infectious diseases. I really could not give an
answer as it is not possible to generalize in such cases.  And what was it
he had in mind? Listen and be surprised - a laxative! As if a physician
should prescribe a laxative for every cold, angina, diphtheria, not to
mention typhoid! ..." (_KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_, p.220-221.)

Aside from Kramer's obvious incredulity at Grawitz's decidedly "odd" ideas
as to what treatment a physician should prescribe for infectious diseases,
Kramer _does_ note that Grawitz's visited (inspected) "the hospital and
the camp."

And what did Grawitz's inspection find? According to Danuta Czech:

"SS Chief Doctor and Head of the Sanitation Central Office, SS General Dr.
Ernst Robert Grawitz, inspects the Camp.* During his visit he inspects the
overcrowded infirmaries, the morgue, and the temporary sewage plant in
Birkenau. He is present at a gassing of Jews and the subsequent burning of
the bodies in the pits. He sees that the medical supervision by the SS
Camp Doctors is unsatisfactory and that the patients do not receive
adequate care and also notes the generally bad health of the prisoners."
(_Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.244. Ref: APMO, Ho"ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61; SAM
_Auschwitz in the Eyes of the SS_, Kremer's Diary, p.222.)

So here, at least, we _know_ that Pressac is correct. But what about
Pressac's cite of Kramer's diary in regards to Pohl? 

First, it must be pointed out that the (inaccurate) passage that Mattagoro
objects to so stridently does not come from Pressac's _Technique_ but from
Gutman's and Berenbuam's _Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_ (p.222).
The _exact_ text appears as follows: 

"On the morning of September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu"hrer
Oswald Pohl, suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons
of Zyklon B were going. [footnote 101] Pohl went first to the
Zentralbauleitung, had the overall layout of the camp explained to him,
and got a description of the buildings that had been completed, those
under construction (including the four crematoria in Birkenau), and the
ones still on the drawing board. When he asked about the Zyklon B, he was
told that the product was for the simultaneous destruction of lice and
Jews. Pohl had no further questions on that topic. To prevent typhoid and
malaria, he recommended speeding up construction of a large water
purification plant."

Now the interesting thing here is _where_ in this passage Pressac makes
reference to Kremer's diary with footnote 101: "On the morning of
September 23, the head of the WVHA, SS-Gruppenfu"hrer Oswald Pohl,
suddenly appeared in Auschwitz to find out where all the tons of Zyklon B
were going.... [footnote 101]"

How is one to read this? Mr. Roberts obviously thinks this damns Pressac
as a liar. But does it? I argue that it does not. In fact, I would further
argue it is quite innocent in regards as to _where_ the cite to the
footnote is placed in the passage. It is placed in context to Pohl's
_arrival_, which Kremer's diary notes as being on September 23, 1942.
Pressac, then, is in accordance with Kremer's diary in this respect. Only
_after_ this footnote does Pressac detail the _purpose_ of Pohl's visit,
which is _not_ mentioned in Kremer's diary.

This, taken into consideration with the fact that Pressac's _previous_
work in _Technique_, which makes no allusions to Kremer's diary detailing
the _purpose_ or _activities_ of Pohl's visit, indicates that Pressac's
reference to Kramer's diary in _Anatomy_ is an honest one and not in the
least deceptive- as it simply pins down the _date_ of Pohl's visit. This
is further reinforced by the fact that Pressac is also in accordance with
Kremer's diary on Grawitz's September 25, 1942 visit, and with Czech's
_Auschwitz Chronicle_ (i.e. APMO, Ho"ss Trial, vol. 7, p.61) as to the
purpose and details of Grawitz's visit.

So who, really, is the liar here? Pressac or _Mr. Roberts_? Or is this a
case of sublime ignorance (and _very_ poor research skills) on Mattagoro's
(and Mr. Robert's) part? I'm sure  But considering such "ignorance" seems
to be a recurring theme with Mattagoro _and_ Mr. Roberts, I have my
doubts. 

Either way Mattagoro and Mr. Roberts, whether out of ignorance and
ineptitude- or intellectual dishonesty, have once more proven themselves
to be a true denier "scholars."  

And once more proven that their "work" can be dismissed. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:37:58 PDT 1996
Article: 73594 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:24:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 140
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>  <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  Pressac is giving much more details, in the french edition (Les 
> > >  crematoires d'Auschwitz) he based his claims on German documents: 
> > >  basically the crema IV is not just submitted to few problems, but 
> > >  is no longer used after may 1943. On page 81 he says that krema V 
> > >  is no longer used after september 1943 because kremas 2 and 3 are 
> > >  suffisant. I've try today to take a look at it again to see on what
> > >  he base his claim, but for Pressac it's sometimes hard to know in 
> > >  advance if a claim is really based on a document or not. The book 
> > >  was borrowed, unfortunatelly, but I don't believe he invented that 
> > >  totally.
> > > 
> > >  Is there any documentary evidence, german documents, tha cremas 4 and
> > >  5 were used after sept 1943? Something that may contradict Pressac's 
> > >  claim? 
> > 
> > According to Pressac: 
> > 
> 
>  [snip]
> 
>   I said _german documents_, not post war testimonies. 

So?  As if I particularly _care_ about what you say, Mr. Beaulieu?
Irregardless, I'm not aware of any wartime _Nazi_ documents that
contradict Pressac. There _is_, however, at least one wartime _Nazi_
document that _supports_ Pressac. 

>  I know that you believe those eyewitnes accounts but I saw so many lies and
>  contradictions in F. Muller and R. Vrba testimonies

Please, Mr. Beaulieu, _do_ enumerate and explain in detail these "so many
lies and contradictions." Of course, Mr. Beaulieu, your refusal to
promptly do so will only evidence that you are simply making specious
claims to dishonestly bolster your dogmatic Holocaust denialism.

[snip]

>  A german document written by Jahrling or someone else, Prfurer or another, 
> that's another thing. 

But Mr. Beaulieu, I cited (and posted the contents) of a wartime letter
>from  Topf to the Auschwitz Bauleitung in regards to furnaces of Krema IV
being damaged and slated for repairs soon after its delivery to the SS.
This supports both Pressac's claim and Ho"ss memoirs in regards to Krema
IV being damaged and eventually decommisioned. 

>  Today I was able to take a look at A.T.O. and this confirm the things I 
>  wrote.I based my claim on the french book from Pressac, and the last part
>  of your response was the samething I said but from the english book.

No, Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid not. 

>  In A.T.O. we talk about an effort that was done to repare a chimney but 
>  nothing else related to documents. 

No, Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid not. I cited Document 10 (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, p.388) which clearly talks about reparing the "8-muffle
furnace of Krematorium IV" -and NOT a chimney as you claim.


>  So accounting for his documents kremas 4 and 5 were out of service in 
>  september 1943 untill the end of
>  the war....

No, Mr. Beaulieu, that's not at all what Pressac concludes. Rather,
Pressac concludes that:

"In preperation for the Hungarian extermination, the SS had Krematorien II
and III overhauled at the end of April 1944. Overwhelmed by the influx of
transports, they tried at the begining of June to bring Krematorium IV
back into service. They failed with Krematorium IV, but were partly
sucessful with Krematorium V. Even though its furnace worked as it had
done earlier, it was not able to rapidly cremate the batches of victims
turned out by its gas chambers. It was SS Master Sergeant Otto Moll whio
took the initiative of digging five small open-air cremation ditches
behind Krematorium V, between its north wall and drainage ditch L1. The
unconsuned bones had to be smashed to powder, crushed with sledgemers on a
stell plate, another of Moll's inventions [David Olere portrayed this
practice in a sketch. See Document 12a.]." (Ibid. p.389.) 

>  ...but he say also that 'eye witness accounts' described how
>  they were reactivated for the hungarian jew extermination. However,.
>  there's no document anout this apparently. 

So far, Mr. Beaulieu, just those pesky eyewiness testimonies. Including
Ho"ss's, who was in charge of Aktion Ho"ss. Amazing though, isn't it, how
all the testimonies confirm each other, and how that Nazi documentation we
have in regards to Krema IV needing its furnace repaired _also_ confirms
all the eyewitness testimonies.... 

>  It doesn't mean that they were not necessarelly repeared, but since such 
>  works involved undoubtfully an exchange of letters...

Of which we have one! (i.e. Document 10. cf. Ibid, p.388.)

>  (there's a cost associate with it!) the best evidence up to now is that 
>  kremas 4 and 5 were not repared unless I learn about some other document
>  a day. 

Mr. Beaulieu, what exactly _is_ your evidence that Krema V was out of
commision during Aktion Ho"ss? None of the eyewitness testimony I've cited
claims such. Neither does Ho"ss in his memoirs. And Pressac, in
_Technique_, certainly doesn't make any such claims. 

How, exactly, Mr. Beaulieu, have you jumped to the opposite conclusion? 

>  There's a lot of documents that deal with the krema breakdown and the
cost of 
>  reparations after in the early 1943.

Really? Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind citing and posting these
documents, Mr. Beaulieu.  

>   This is just a minor point: Muench came in Birkenau only in september
>  1943, so even if Keren's explanation would make sense, let say for
>  someone who's drunk, there's few chances that krema 4 was active 
>  during Muench presence in Auschwitz.

Come now, Mr. Beaulieu! Ad hominems do not make for evidence in support of
your specious claims! But then, I suppose, given that you have _no_
evidence, ad hominems are all you _do_ have to attempt to deflect
examination of your specious claims. 

Unfortunately for you, Mr. Beaulieu, that dog don't hunt. I suggest
instead you back up your big mouth with _real_ evidence. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:37:59 PDT 1996
Article: 73620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:08:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <3263ddd9.2665182@news.inetport.com> <53ng5r$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53ng5r$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >  gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> >  
> >  >Glad to see you and Mr. Giwer so chummy.  You certainly pick your friends
> >  >well.
> >  >
> >  
> >  So did Mr. Ehrlich606! 
> >  
> >  Then he disappeared. Sad in a way. He had a better style.
> 
> 
> >  
> >>>>
> Have no worry.  He will probably be back soon.

Really, Herr Schwarzesel? And which of the deniers currently posting under
a pseudonym will dissapear? Will Ehrlich606 reappear under his old 'nym or
will he finally find the balls, unlike yourself, to use his real name? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 73621 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:16:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com> <3253DC8A.67AE@rio.com> <535ksp$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <325687EF.2534@rio.com> <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>  <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

[snip]

> >Mr. Carpenter,
> >Would you listen to Jewish survivors? 
> >Would you listen to non-Jewish witnesses? 
> >Would you listen to the Soviets, who were (nominal) allies? 
> >Would you listen to the Poles, who were allies? 
> >Would you listen to the French, who were allies? 
> >Would you listen to the British, who were close allies? 
> >Would you listen to United States Army? 
> 
> We were talking about Ho:ss.

Indeed, Mr. Carpenter. And did you not, in regards to Ho"ss, say, "I don't
believe anything the enemy says?" Well? Of course you did. Ergo, my
question, _also_ in regards to Ho"ss, asking just who you _would_ listen
to. 

Your evasion of the question is quite telling, Mr. Carpenter. 

[snip]

> >Mr. Carpenter, why don't you take a look for yourself and get back to us:
> 
>
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images/zyklon-color.jpg

> I went, I saw, thank you.  This photo looks like the one in The World
> Must Know.

Indeed it is, Mr. Carpenter. Any comments on its color? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 73634 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 16:30:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>
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In article <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >The Soviets and Poles claimed 4 million deaths at Auschwitz,
> >while Hoess gives in his memoirs a rather accurate estimate
> >of about 1.3 million. Moreover, he mocks the higher estimates,
> >saying they are fruit of wild imagination, etc.
> 
> >Can you see how stupid the "revisionist" claim is?
> 
> It's called adjusting the Tale further for the sake of credibility.  
> 
> Hoess at Nuremberg testified that the number of Jews gassed at Auschwitz was 
> 2.5 million. IMT XI, 458, XXXIII, 275.  Yet, in his Cracow memoirs the number 
> was arbitrarily reduced to 1.13 million (not 1.3). 

Ah, Herr Wankermeister! Back for more ridcule and abuse for your rabid
anti-Semitism and ignorant Holocaust denialism, I see. Such masochism! 

Herr Wankermeister, the reason for Ho"ss's revising his estimate given in
earlier interrogations, and at Kaltenbrunner's trial, is self-evident in
his memoirs: 

"During my earlier interrogations I gave the number of 2.5 million Jews
who arrived at Auschwitz to be exterminated. This figure was given to me
by Eichmann, who had given this figure to my superior, SS General Glu"cks,
when Eichmann was ordered to make a report to Himmler shortly before
Berlin was surrounded. Eichmann and his deputy, Gu"nther, were the only
ones who had the necessary information to calculate the total number of
Jews annihilated. According to the orders given by Himmler, all the
information concerning the number of victims involved wa to be burned
after each action at Auschwitz.

"...I myself never knew the total number, and I have n0thing to help me
arrive at an estimate.

"I can only remember the figures involved in the larger actions, which
were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.

[The total the individual special actions Ho"ss recalls can be summed up
to 1,130,000.] 

"...I can no longert remember the figures for the smaller actions, but
they were insignificant by comparison with the numbers given above.

"I regard a total of 2.5 million far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits
to its destructive capabilities.

Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp.38-39.

Considering the above, Herr Wankermeister, it is equally self-evident that
your claim that Ho"ss "arbitrarily reduced" his death-toll estimate is a
puerile lie, which is par for the course for such an ignorant liar as
yourself.

> But we know now even the 1.13 million figure is grossly inflated.  German 
> researcher Tjudar Rudolf (who is fluent in German, English, French, Yiddish 
> and Polish and understands most Slavic names and languages) went over all the 
> Soviet/Auschwitz death register books and totaled the number of Jewish deaths 
> according to name and religion -even allowing for slavicized names.   He
found 
> the total to be slightly over 30,000 Jewish dead in Auschwitz. 
> 
> Can you see how stupid the "Holocaust" claim is?

No, Herr Wankermeister, I can only see how utterly stupid _you_ are.
Evidently you _still_ are unable (or unwilling) to comprehend that only a
small minority of those who died at Auschwitz had their deaths registered.
Those who _did_ have their deaths registered where generally those who had
been _registered_ (and interred) in the camp. Even then such records were
largely discontinued (except for German nationals [i.e. "Aryans") after
1942 or so. The vast majority of those murdered in the numerous "special
actions" at Auschwitz were deportess who generally were never registered
and were not interred into the camp on anything but a temporary basis
(during Aktion Ho"ss) while awaiting their turn to be exterminated. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:01 PDT 1996
Article: 73642 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I always get the feeling
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 16:49:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References:  <53heff$kne@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53heff$kne@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> Kneeland  wrote:
> 
> >that when one debates a holocaust promoter, one is debates a fundie. The
> >fundie changes the topic, uses circuitous reasoning and repeats the same
> >trash. 
> 
> >So, I checked out the air-photo site and it is pretty good. What
> >do you holocaust promoters give as a rebuttal to those aerial photos? What
> >about the Jewish truthseeker's (Cole's) questions? Why is there more
> >zyklon B contamination in offices than in 'gas chambers'?
> 
> They have no explanation for those minor details of course.

And which  "minor details" might those be, Herr Wankermeister? Are you
suggesting that there _is_ more "zyklon B contamination" (i.e. HCN traces)
"offices" (_which_ offices?) than in the gas chambers (_which_ gas
chambers?). 

Well, Herr Wankermeister? Don't be shy now, spit it out you masturbating
little  Nazi! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:01 PDT 1996
Article: 73658 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:13:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
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In article <53756b$4tf@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[Herr Wankermeister's public masturbating snipped]

> My favorite, however, is the "gasvan."  I had to laugh when I heard that one.

Actually, Herr Wankerweister, one of _my_ favorites, which had me rolling
on the floor at the time, was when the gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch claimed,
in article <4m736d$9i1@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, that the definition of
Leichenkellar was: 

"Keller = cellar.  Leichen = Leichen."

Surely, it must be a terrible burden to have an "IQ" of "163"....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:02 PDT 1996
Article: 73659 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN(ne) F(r)A(n)KE
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:17:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <53lp33$3in@access5.digex.net> <53lt0m$5hv@bell.maths.tcd.ie>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article
,
Kimberley Ahlf  wrote:

[snip]

> > The exception probably being the Giwer-eunuch. Though one cannot rule out
> > bilateral anorchia it might be worth considering Gonadotoxins, given the
> > Giwer-eunuch's perpetual state of inebriation.
> 
> No, alcohol is not a likely culprit.  I fear that the man is more apt to
> have become a living tribute to the "use-it-or-lose-it" refrain.
> 

Ouch. So cruel.... So right....  };->

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 12 19:38:03 PDT 1996
Article: 73663 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 18:19:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>  <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>  <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

[Dr. Keren wrote:]

> >Surely, you're not claiming that both IV and V were out for
> >the summer of 1944? Also, you're making a mistake here; it's
> >true that the furnaces in one of them broke down, however
> >its gas chambers were still used, and the corpses burned
> >in the open, behind the Krema.
> 
> Right out in the "open"? Right there among the camp, with a
> hundred thousand prisoners, a thousand civilians coming and going on a
> daily basis? Was it on top of the ground, or was there a pit? 
> 
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Pit.jpg
> 
> Looky here. Mr.Keren has supplied a reference to a photograph.
> And what is this photo of? Germans burning typhus fatalities? Germans
> in the process of cremating victims? Germans cremating victims out in
> the fields? Civilians in the Eastern areas burning bodies they killed?
> Or even Allied troops burning bodies at Buchenwald or Belsen?

Try a clandestine Polish Resistance photo of gassed Hungarian Jews being
incinerated in an open-air pit behind Krema V at Auschwitz during Aktion
Ho"ss. 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> Is Mr.Keren going to come back and tell us, thats it, the photo
> was taken behind Krema IV? And is he going to prove it? We'll have to
> wait and see.

Try reading the cited page in _Technique_, Moran, before you stick your
other foot in your mouth again. If that taxes your "research skills" too
much you  might try pages 172-175 of _Auschwitz: a history in
photographs_.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:48 PDT 1996
Article: 73594 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 11:24:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 140
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>  <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  Pressac is giving much more details, in the french edition (Les 
> > >  crematoires d'Auschwitz) he based his claims on German documents: 
> > >  basically the crema IV is not just submitted to few problems, but 
> > >  is no longer used after may 1943. On page 81 he says that krema V 
> > >  is no longer used after september 1943 because kremas 2 and 3 are 
> > >  suffisant. I've try today to take a look at it again to see on what
> > >  he base his claim, but for Pressac it's sometimes hard to know in 
> > >  advance if a claim is really based on a document or not. The book 
> > >  was borrowed, unfortunatelly, but I don't believe he invented that 
> > >  totally.
> > > 
> > >  Is there any documentary evidence, german documents, tha cremas 4 and
> > >  5 were used after sept 1943? Something that may contradict Pressac's 
> > >  claim? 
> > 
> > According to Pressac: 
> > 
> 
>  [snip]
> 
>   I said _german documents_, not post war testimonies. 

So?  As if I particularly _care_ about what you say, Mr. Beaulieu?
Irregardless, I'm not aware of any wartime _Nazi_ documents that
contradict Pressac. There _is_, however, at least one wartime _Nazi_
document that _supports_ Pressac. 

>  I know that you believe those eyewitnes accounts but I saw so many lies and
>  contradictions in F. Muller and R. Vrba testimonies

Please, Mr. Beaulieu, _do_ enumerate and explain in detail these "so many
lies and contradictions." Of course, Mr. Beaulieu, your refusal to
promptly do so will only evidence that you are simply making specious
claims to dishonestly bolster your dogmatic Holocaust denialism.

[snip]

>  A german document written by Jahrling or someone else, Prfurer or another, 
> that's another thing. 

But Mr. Beaulieu, I cited (and posted the contents) of a wartime letter
>from  Topf to the Auschwitz Bauleitung in regards to furnaces of Krema IV
being damaged and slated for repairs soon after its delivery to the SS.
This supports both Pressac's claim and Ho"ss memoirs in regards to Krema
IV being damaged and eventually decommisioned. 

>  Today I was able to take a look at A.T.O. and this confirm the things I 
>  wrote.I based my claim on the french book from Pressac, and the last part
>  of your response was the samething I said but from the english book.

No, Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid not. 

>  In A.T.O. we talk about an effort that was done to repare a chimney but 
>  nothing else related to documents. 

No, Mr. Beaulieu, I'm afraid not. I cited Document 10 (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, p.388) which clearly talks about reparing the "8-muffle
furnace of Krematorium IV" -and NOT a chimney as you claim.


>  So accounting for his documents kremas 4 and 5 were out of service in 
>  september 1943 untill the end of
>  the war....

No, Mr. Beaulieu, that's not at all what Pressac concludes. Rather,
Pressac concludes that:

"In preperation for the Hungarian extermination, the SS had Krematorien II
and III overhauled at the end of April 1944. Overwhelmed by the influx of
transports, they tried at the begining of June to bring Krematorium IV
back into service. They failed with Krematorium IV, but were partly
sucessful with Krematorium V. Even though its furnace worked as it had
done earlier, it was not able to rapidly cremate the batches of victims
turned out by its gas chambers. It was SS Master Sergeant Otto Moll whio
took the initiative of digging five small open-air cremation ditches
behind Krematorium V, between its north wall and drainage ditch L1. The
unconsuned bones had to be smashed to powder, crushed with sledgemers on a
stell plate, another of Moll's inventions [David Olere portrayed this
practice in a sketch. See Document 12a.]." (Ibid. p.389.) 

>  ...but he say also that 'eye witness accounts' described how
>  they were reactivated for the hungarian jew extermination. However,.
>  there's no document anout this apparently. 

So far, Mr. Beaulieu, just those pesky eyewiness testimonies. Including
Ho"ss's, who was in charge of Aktion Ho"ss. Amazing though, isn't it, how
all the testimonies confirm each other, and how that Nazi documentation we
have in regards to Krema IV needing its furnace repaired _also_ confirms
all the eyewitness testimonies.... 

>  It doesn't mean that they were not necessarelly repeared, but since such 
>  works involved undoubtfully an exchange of letters...

Of which we have one! (i.e. Document 10. cf. Ibid, p.388.)

>  (there's a cost associate with it!) the best evidence up to now is that 
>  kremas 4 and 5 were not repared unless I learn about some other document
>  a day. 

Mr. Beaulieu, what exactly _is_ your evidence that Krema V was out of
commision during Aktion Ho"ss? None of the eyewitness testimony I've cited
claims such. Neither does Ho"ss in his memoirs. And Pressac, in
_Technique_, certainly doesn't make any such claims. 

How, exactly, Mr. Beaulieu, have you jumped to the opposite conclusion? 

>  There's a lot of documents that deal with the krema breakdown and the
cost of 
>  reparations after in the early 1943.

Really? Then I'm sure you wouldn't mind citing and posting these
documents, Mr. Beaulieu.  

>   This is just a minor point: Muench came in Birkenau only in september
>  1943, so even if Keren's explanation would make sense, let say for
>  someone who's drunk, there's few chances that krema 4 was active 
>  during Muench presence in Auschwitz.

Come now, Mr. Beaulieu! Ad hominems do not make for evidence in support of
your specious claims! But then, I suppose, given that you have _no_
evidence, ad hominems are all you _do_ have to attempt to deflect
examination of your specious claims. 

Unfortunately for you, Mr. Beaulieu, that dog don't hunt. I suggest
instead you back up your big mouth with _real_ evidence. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:48 PDT 1996
Article: 73620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:08:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <3263ddd9.2665182@news.inetport.com> <53ng5r$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53ng5r$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >  gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> >  
> >  >Glad to see you and Mr. Giwer so chummy.  You certainly pick your friends
> >  >well.
> >  >
> >  
> >  So did Mr. Ehrlich606! 
> >  
> >  Then he disappeared. Sad in a way. He had a better style.
> 
> 
> >  
> >>>>
> Have no worry.  He will probably be back soon.

Really, Herr Schwarzesel? And which of the deniers currently posting under
a pseudonym will dissapear? Will Ehrlich606 reappear under his old 'nym or
will he finally find the balls, unlike yourself, to use his real name? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:49 PDT 1996
Article: 73621 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:16:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com> <3253DC8A.67AE@rio.com> <535ksp$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <325687EF.2534@rio.com> <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>  <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

[snip]

> >Mr. Carpenter,
> >Would you listen to Jewish survivors? 
> >Would you listen to non-Jewish witnesses? 
> >Would you listen to the Soviets, who were (nominal) allies? 
> >Would you listen to the Poles, who were allies? 
> >Would you listen to the French, who were allies? 
> >Would you listen to the British, who were close allies? 
> >Would you listen to United States Army? 
> 
> We were talking about Ho:ss.

Indeed, Mr. Carpenter. And did you not, in regards to Ho"ss, say, "I don't
believe anything the enemy says?" Well? Of course you did. Ergo, my
question, _also_ in regards to Ho"ss, asking just who you _would_ listen
to. 

Your evasion of the question is quite telling, Mr. Carpenter. 

[snip]

> >Mr. Carpenter, why don't you take a look for yourself and get back to us:
> 
>
>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images/zyklon-color.jpg

> I went, I saw, thank you.  This photo looks like the one in The World
> Must Know.

Indeed it is, Mr. Carpenter. Any comments on its color? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:50 PDT 1996
Article: 73634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 16:30:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
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In article <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >The Soviets and Poles claimed 4 million deaths at Auschwitz,
> >while Hoess gives in his memoirs a rather accurate estimate
> >of about 1.3 million. Moreover, he mocks the higher estimates,
> >saying they are fruit of wild imagination, etc.
> 
> >Can you see how stupid the "revisionist" claim is?
> 
> It's called adjusting the Tale further for the sake of credibility.  
> 
> Hoess at Nuremberg testified that the number of Jews gassed at Auschwitz was 
> 2.5 million. IMT XI, 458, XXXIII, 275.  Yet, in his Cracow memoirs the number 
> was arbitrarily reduced to 1.13 million (not 1.3). 

Ah, Herr Wankermeister! Back for more ridcule and abuse for your rabid
anti-Semitism and ignorant Holocaust denialism, I see. Such masochism! 

Herr Wankermeister, the reason for Ho"ss's revising his estimate given in
earlier interrogations, and at Kaltenbrunner's trial, is self-evident in
his memoirs: 

"During my earlier interrogations I gave the number of 2.5 million Jews
who arrived at Auschwitz to be exterminated. This figure was given to me
by Eichmann, who had given this figure to my superior, SS General Glu"cks,
when Eichmann was ordered to make a report to Himmler shortly before
Berlin was surrounded. Eichmann and his deputy, Gu"nther, were the only
ones who had the necessary information to calculate the total number of
Jews annihilated. According to the orders given by Himmler, all the
information concerning the number of victims involved wa to be burned
after each action at Auschwitz.

"...I myself never knew the total number, and I have n0thing to help me
arrive at an estimate.

"I can only remember the figures involved in the larger actions, which
were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.

[The total the individual special actions Ho"ss recalls can be summed up
to 1,130,000.] 

"...I can no longert remember the figures for the smaller actions, but
they were insignificant by comparison with the numbers given above.

"I regard a total of 2.5 million far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits
to its destructive capabilities.

Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp.38-39.

Considering the above, Herr Wankermeister, it is equally self-evident that
your claim that Ho"ss "arbitrarily reduced" his death-toll estimate is a
puerile lie, which is par for the course for such an ignorant liar as
yourself.

> But we know now even the 1.13 million figure is grossly inflated.  German 
> researcher Tjudar Rudolf (who is fluent in German, English, French, Yiddish 
> and Polish and understands most Slavic names and languages) went over all the 
> Soviet/Auschwitz death register books and totaled the number of Jewish deaths 
> according to name and religion -even allowing for slavicized names.   He
found 
> the total to be slightly over 30,000 Jewish dead in Auschwitz. 
> 
> Can you see how stupid the "Holocaust" claim is?

No, Herr Wankermeister, I can only see how utterly stupid _you_ are.
Evidently you _still_ are unable (or unwilling) to comprehend that only a
small minority of those who died at Auschwitz had their deaths registered.
Those who _did_ have their deaths registered where generally those who had
been _registered_ (and interred) in the camp. Even then such records were
largely discontinued (except for German nationals [i.e. "Aryans") after
1942 or so. The vast majority of those murdered in the numerous "special
actions" at Auschwitz were deportess who generally were never registered
and were not interred into the camp on anything but a temporary basis
(during Aktion Ho"ss) while awaiting their turn to be exterminated. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:51 PDT 1996
Article: 73658 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:13:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <32548DDB.794B@itsa.ucsf.edu> <533395$sfh@juliana.sprynet.com> <325530cd.76897734@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <536d5q$4os@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53756b$4tf@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53756b$4tf@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[Herr Wankermeister's public masturbating snipped]

> My favorite, however, is the "gasvan."  I had to laugh when I heard that one.

Actually, Herr Wankerweister, one of _my_ favorites, which had me rolling
on the floor at the time, was when the gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch claimed,
in article <4m736d$9i1@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, that the definition of
Leichenkellar was: 

"Keller = cellar.  Leichen = Leichen."

Surely, it must be a terrible burden to have an "IQ" of "163"....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:51 PDT 1996
Article: 73663 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 18:19:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>  <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>  <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

[Dr. Keren wrote:]

> >Surely, you're not claiming that both IV and V were out for
> >the summer of 1944? Also, you're making a mistake here; it's
> >true that the furnaces in one of them broke down, however
> >its gas chambers were still used, and the corpses burned
> >in the open, behind the Krema.
> 
> Right out in the "open"? Right there among the camp, with a
> hundred thousand prisoners, a thousand civilians coming and going on a
> daily basis? Was it on top of the ground, or was there a pit? 
> 
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/Pit.jpg
> 
> Looky here. Mr.Keren has supplied a reference to a photograph.
> And what is this photo of? Germans burning typhus fatalities? Germans
> in the process of cremating victims? Germans cremating victims out in
> the fields? Civilians in the Eastern areas burning bodies they killed?
> Or even Allied troops burning bodies at Buchenwald or Belsen?

Try a clandestine Polish Resistance photo of gassed Hungarian Jews being
incinerated in an open-air pit behind Krema V at Auschwitz during Aktion
Ho"ss. 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> Is Mr.Keren going to come back and tell us, thats it, the photo
> was taken behind Krema IV? And is he going to prove it? We'll have to
> wait and see.

Try reading the cited page in _Technique_, Moran, before you stick your
other foot in your mouth again. If that taxes your "research skills" too
much you  might try pages 172-175 of _Auschwitz: a history in
photographs_.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:52 PDT 1996
Article: 73758 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:00:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qbod$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qbod$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Ah, Danny thinks he has cleverly tricked me into
> admitting that Kramer admits of gassings at
> Brikenau and Natzweiler.  However, what I wrote
> was that I believed that he told the truth in regard
> to BELSEN, AND his statements were PROVED BY
>  OTHER EVIDENCE.

Of course, Herr Schwarzesel, being a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, fails
to relate that his "evidence" has been repeatedly shown to be a pack of
lies. That his attempts at vindicating Kramer have been shown to be
nothing but Nazi apologia. And that his "research" evidences nothing more
than his egomania. 

[Herr Schwarzesel's pathetic self-congratulation snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:53 PDT 1996
Article: 73763 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:08:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qb4o$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qb4o$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
> >  ------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
> >  about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
> >  and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
> >  British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
> >  Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
> >  should be removed, and that water should be supplied to 
> >  prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
> >  not take orders from me.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Danny's red herrings.  It was obvious that the people
> in the camp needed water, that is why Kramer was
> arranging for the surrender of the camp to the British.
> And he did not have to explain his actions to Klein.

Herr Schwarzesel's scumbag Nazi apologia, rather. It is obvious that
Kramer, by his perverse cruelty and inaction, killed thousands of inmates
at Bergen-Belsen. Equally obvious is that he surrendered Bergen-Belsen
because he had no viable alternative with the British Army at the gates.
As to not having to explain his actions to Klein? What is to explain?
Kramer murdered thousands by depriving them of food and water and forcing
them to live in horrid conditions until they died. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:53 PDT 1996
Article: 73764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:12:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qb9v$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qb9v$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> The photos only prove people died.  Danny 
> seems to be so fond of these pictures, like a
> baseball card collection.  What the pictures
> do not show is that typhus was raging through
> out the camp and this disease is no respecter
> of persons.

Herr Schwarzesel, how many of the SS at Bergen-Belsen died of typhus? How
many SS were hospitalized due to typhus? How many German civilians around
Bergen-Belen died of typhus? How many German civilians around
Bergen-Belsen were hospitalized due to thyphus? 

Or is this too difficult for a lying scumbag Nazi apologist, like
yourself, to answer? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:54 PDT 1996
Article: 73769 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More on Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:29:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <3262f665.4918908@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <53q82g$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53q82g$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> I was in a Biblical frame of mind last night....  

[snip]

Trying on a new hairshirt, probably....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:55 PDT 1996
Article: 73782 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:50:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 71
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Ah, Herr Wankermeister! Back for more ridcule and abuse for your rabid
> >anti-Semitism and ignorant Holocaust denialism, I see. Such masochism! 
> 
> You don't have jack-shit, neither does any other Holocauster. 

So sayeth the Wankermeister. Best you go back to playing with yourself,
you're completely out of your league here. 

> >Herr Wankermeister, the reason for Ho"ss's revising his estimate given in
> >earlier interrogations, and at Kaltenbrunner's trial, is self-evident in
> >his memoirs: 
> 
> >"During my earlier interrogations I gave the number of 2.5 million Jews
> >who arrived at Auschwitz to be exterminated. This figure was given to me
> >by Eichmann, who had given this figure to my superior, SS General Glu"cks,
> 
> >"I can only remember the figures involved in the larger actions, which
> >were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies.
> 
> >[The total the individual special actions Ho"ss recalls can be summed up
> >to 1,130,000.] 
> 
> >"...I can no longert remember the figures for the smaller actions, but
> >they were insignificant by comparison with the numbers given above.
> 
> >"I regard a total of 2.5 million far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits
> >to its destructive capabilities.
> 
> You are saying Hoess' first estimate, which was given to him by Eichmann was 
> wrong, yet another estimate, also given by Eichmann, was right.  

Yup.

> If the first one is wrong, what basis does Hoess have for disbelieving
it, and 
> if wrong what basis does Hoess or anyone else have for believing Eichmann's 
> "new" figure?  

Try: "I regard a total of 2.5 million far too high. Even Auschwitz had limits
to its destructive capabilities."

Try: "I can only remember the figures involved in the larger actions, which
were repeated to me by Eichmann or his deputies."

Obviously, Ho"ss, when thinking about the death toll at Auschwitz while in
Poland, could not reconcile the 2.5 million figure given to him by
Eichmann with the figures from the individual major actions at Auschwitz
also given to him by Eichmann. When considering both figures, and having
first-hand knowledge of the extermination capacity of Auschwitz, Ho"ss
realized that Auschwitz _couldn't_ have exterminated 2.5 million in the
allotted time-span. Ergo, he gave a new, lower, figure based on his
personal recollections. 

> Sounds like arbitrary, and highly suspicious, revising to me, alright..

So sayeth the Wankermeister. Best you go back to playing with yourself,
you're completely out of your league here. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 08:51:56 PDT 1996
Article: 73817 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vergasungskeller BITES THE DUST!
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:49:45 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <52uiih$50@access5.digex.net> <52vls9$g8h@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53m02j$at5@is05.micron.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> 
> # Ooh goody!  I can't wait.  More debunking of that filthy
> # piece of lying, Jewish excrement known as the "Holocaust."
> # I can't wait until 1997.  Fun, fun!
> 
> Someone willing to help this person? He seems to be in
> serious trouble.

No. I only take out the garbage at home.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 15:35:46 PDT 1996
Article: 162343 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:31:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 15:53:44 PDT 1996
Article: 73881 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD: LEGEND AND REALITY
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 02:54:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qce3$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qce3$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> ...Atleast I don't go around parading photos of people who
> died from disease and then imply that they were murdered.

No, instead  Herr Schwarzesel, when confronted with the graphic evidence
of Nazi murder by brutality, privation, starvation, and disease at
Bergen-Belsen, tries to white-wash said Nazi crimes, vindicate those Nazis
in charge, and implicity and/or explicity blame the British for the deaths
of the victims of Nazi persecution there. 

All in a day's work for a lying scumbag Nazi apologists like Herr Schwarzesel.

(And yes, he _has_ flipped.)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 15:53:45 PDT 1996
Article: 73894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I'm lost here...
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:19:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 117
Message-ID: 
References: <53cgue$o7o@Vir.com>  <53mme7$js8@Vir.com>  <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>  <3261e744.320926@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3261e744.320926@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> >In article <3264305a.46049724@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:

[snip]

> >> Looky here. Mr.Keren has supplied a reference to a photograph.
> >> And what is this photo of? Germans burning typhus fatalities? Germans
> >> in the process of cremating victims? Germans cremating victims out in
> >> the fields? Civilians in the Eastern areas burning bodies they killed?
> >> Or even Allied troops burning bodies at Buchenwald or Belsen?
> >
> >Try a clandestine Polish Resistance photo of gassed Hungarian Jews being
> >incinerated in an open-air pit behind Krema V at Auschwitz during Aktion
> >Ho"ss. 
> 
> First we can note that the discussion that led up to this was
> about Crema IV....

"Surely, you're not claiming that both IV and V...."
                                       ^^^^^^^^
Sure looks like Dr. Keren was talking about Kremas IV and V.

> ...and this seems why Mr.Keren referred to the photo. 

Which was of taken from Krema V.

> ...but here we have Mr.VanAsltine saying it is from behind Crema V. The
> Nizkor source doesn't have a statement on it at all.

So? The Moran (tm) was given the exact citations where he _could_ find
statements about the photo. Did the Moran (tm) go read the cited texts?
Obviously not. 

> "Clandestine" Mr.VanAlstine says. He says it was a clandestine
> photo.  Looks like it was taken with a 50 mm lens. From 30 or 40 feet.
> Mr.VanAlstine says it is Krema V. This building ran east - west length
> wise. Behind it was a fence. Either the photographer was right there
> inside the compound or he was on the outside.

The Moran (tm) was given the exact citations where he _could_ find
statements about the photo. Did the Moran (tm) go read the cited texts?
Obviously not. 

[Moranic (tm) drivel snipped]

> Instead of spending too much time with wordy analysis, maybe
> Mr.VanAlstine and Mr.Keren can come back and reconcile the photograph
> with references to the aerial photos as to where the scene would be
> taking place and where the photographer would have been.

The Moran (tm) was given the exact citations where he _could_ find
statements about the photo. Did the Moran (tm) go read the cited texts?
Obviously not. 

> As to the other evidence offered into validate the nature and
> primary source of the photo, titles and pages to books doesn't do it.

The Moran (tm) was given the exact citations where he _could_ find
statements about the photo. Did the Moran (tm) go read the cited texts?
Obviously not. 

[snip]

> >Try reading the cited page in _Technique_, Moran, before you stick your
> >other foot in your mouth again. If that taxes your "research skills" too
> >much you  might try pages 172-175 of _Auschwitz: a history in
> >photographs_.
> 
>         "Auschwitz: A History in Photographs" shows a pile of bundled up
> blankets, all very clean, all the same, but nevertheless captioned to
> say they were ceremonial shawls confiscated from Jewish women. The
> photographs in this book made me realize that photos are the enemy of
> the Holocaust story.

If the Moran is claiming that the photographs and text on pages 172-175 of
_Auschwitz: A History in Photographs_ are of a "pile of bundled up
blankets" etc. then I will gleefully point out that the Moran (tm) is an
ignorant liar. I will even _gladly_ wager the Moran (tm) $100 that he is
absolutely wrong. If I wins the Moran (tm) will write a check to Nizkor
for $100. If the Moran (tm) wins I will write a check for $100 to the IHR.
Will ther Moran (tm) back up his lying mouth with his wallet, or will
slink away like the lying anti-Semitic piece of Nazi filth he is? 

Obviously, the Moran (tm) prefers to stick his other foot in his mouth as
well. Unsuprising really. Infants do that a lot. 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 15:53:45 PDT 1996
Article: 73895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: RBLACKMORE LIES AGAIN... Re: Add this one to the "Discovery Channel"
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 12:20:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <32605248.4462436@news.awinc.com> <53qktp$sin@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qktp$sin@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  On 11 Oct 1996 11:44:56 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >>   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >  
> >  >>  In a recent email, later posted to the Usenet, you made the
following claim
> >  >>  about the SWC:
> >  
> >  >I already answered this ages ago.  Why do you keep
> >  >re-posting the same nonsense?
> >  
> >  Because your 'answers' haven't answered the question.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> As far as I am concerned, they have, and only an
> imbecile would keep reposting........


Rather, only a lying scumbag Nazi apologist would refuse answering.....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 15:53:46 PDT 1996
Article: 73907 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!caen!news-ext.crl.dec.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apology to Nizkor & Jamie M.
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 23:26:06 -0800
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In article <5392hl$prp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> If Hoess would have complained, the Allies would have sent his family to
hell.  
> A real threat to family tends to produce most anything you want.

Really? And how do _you_ know this, Herr Wankermeister? Threaten any
families lately? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 16:38:27 PDT 1996
Article: 73918 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Wife of Major Hoople
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:33:57 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 199
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In article <53qk5d$sin@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> As promised, here is more from the testimony of
> Ada Bimko, this time regarding the number of Jews
> allegedly killed in the "gas chambers" at Auschwitz:
> 
> Q:-  Have you ever been in the gas chambers?
> 
> A:-  Yes.  In August, 1944, I was working in a 
> portion of the camp as a doctor.  A new crowd of
> those selected for the gas chamber had arrived,
> and as they were sick, they came covered with
> a blanket.  After TWO DAYS we were told to 
> fetch all those blankets from the gas chamber.
> I took the opportunity, as I always wanted to see
> this ill-famed gas chamber, and I went in.  It was a
> brick building, and there were trees around in a way
> as if it were camouflaged.  In the first room I met a man
> who came from the same town as I do.  There was also
> an SS man with a rank of Unterscharfuehrer, and he belonged
> to the Red Cross.  I was told that in this first big room the people
> left their clothes, and from this room were led into a second,
> and I gained the impression that hundreds and hundreds might
> go into this room, it was so large.  It resembled the shower baths or
> ablution rooms we had in the camp.  There were many sprays all
> over the ceiling in rows which were parallel.  All these people who
> went into this room were issued with a towel and a cake of soap.
> so that they should have the impression that they were going to have
> a bath, but for anybody who looked at the floor it was quite clear 
> that it was not so, because there were no drains..
> ..I saw a few lines of rails with a small wagon which 
> they called a lorry, and I was told that prisoners who
> were already gassed were put on these wagons and sent
> directly to the crematorium.  I believe the crematorium
> was in the same building but I myself did not see the stove.
> There was yet another room a few steps higher than
> the previous one with a very low ceiling, and I 
> noticed two pipes which I was told contained the
> gas.  There were also two large metal containers
> containing gas."
> 
> From:  The Belsen Trial, pg. 68.
> 
> Comment:  So, here our witness states that after
> two days, (The caps were mine-rb)  she was sent
> to the gas chambers with others to retrieve blankets
> from the victims. 

Bimko was sent to the Krema (II or III) to fetch the blankets of the
victims. Note that when she arriveed she was only told, by a
"disinfector," that the victims undressed in the "first big room"
(L.Keller 2). 

> I wonder how she was told-did 
> someone say, "Go to the gas chamber and get
> the blankets the murdered victims left behind?"

How about: "Go to Krema II and get the blankets there. The Kapo will tell
where they are." 

More importantly, Bimko's saying, "...I always wanted to see this
ill-famed gas chamber..." is indicative that she was aware of the the
"rumors" circulating about the camp regarding the mass gassings in the
Kremas. To simply conclude that she was told by the SS that she was to "go
to the gas chamber and get the blankets the murdered victims left behind"
without considering that Bimko _already_ was aware of that the Kremas
contained homicidal gas chambers is simply disingenous and selective
objectivity. 

> Coincidentally, she happens to "meet" a man
> who came from her own town.  he is in the gas
> chamber doing heaven knows what.. 

So? These things happen. Even Ho"ss relates a similar, but far more
terrible, thing in his memoirs:

"This incident I witnessed myself: As the bodies were being pulled out of
one of the gas chambers, one member of the Sonderkommando suddenly stopped
and stood for a moment as if thunderstruck. He then pulled the body along,
helping his comrades. I asked the Kapo what was wrong with him. He found
out that the startled Jew had discovered his wife among the bodies...."
(Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.161.) 

> While there she claims to have seen as SS man who was
> a member of the "Red Cross"-what he was doing
> and why he happened to be there, she doesn't state,
> nor does she state how she knew he was from the
> Red Cross.  

Mabye it was the ambulance with the red crosses on it he rode in? Maybe it
was some designation on his uniform? All "disinfectors" at Auschwitz were
technically medical orderlies and were trained in using Zyklon B. During
each "special action" the "disinfectors" would drive up in an ambulance
(hence the red crosses) with the Zyklon B and "disinfect" the victims. 

> Then she tells us how she was TOLD
> that this was a gas chamber and was led into a massive shower
> room...

"I was told that in this first big room the people left their clothes, and
>from  this room were led into a second, and I gained the impression that
hundreds and hundreds might go into this room, it was so large.... 

Where is "gas chamber" mentioned here?  Oops, it isn't....

> ...which she says anyone would notice that there
> were no drains.....

Actually there _were_ drains in the L.Kellers. Whether they were easily
seen or  if Bimko simply overlooked them is another issue. BTW, it is
interesting to note that the drainage system for L.Keller 1 was
_completely_ seperate from that of the rest of the Krema. One might get
the impression that the Nazi didn't want fumes from L.Keller 1's drainage
system seeping into the Krema for some reason.... (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, pp.296-297.) 

> but if SHE saw it, then so would 
> anyone else entering into that room....

Really? Did Ho"ss mention drains? Did Broad? Did Dr.Nyiszli? Did Henryk
Tauber? Did Fillip Mu"ller?  Not to my knowledge.

Yet Dr. Nysizli wrote that, "The Sonderkommando squad, outfitted with
large rubber boots, lined up around the hill of bodies and flooded it with
powerful jets of water..." (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.52.) Obviously,
mentioning the presence of drains was an inconsequential detail to their
testimonies. 

Just as obviously, that Bimko may have concluded that there were no drains
in L.Keller 1 was also inconsequential to her testimony.  

> Then she refers to the crematorium and says that she did not see
> the "stove"...

It would be more helpful if the ommited text between "because there were
no drains..: and  "..I saw a few lines of rails" were included. I have a
suspicion things were left out that might shed more light on Bimko's
testmony....

As to Bimko not seeing the "stove" one gets the impression from Bimko
saying "I believe the crematorium was in the same building but I myself
did not see the stove," that she didn't actually enter the furnace hall. 

As for the "few lines of rails with a small wagon" for carrying corpses
there was indeed such in Kremas II and III. (cf. Photo 6, Pressac,
_Technique_, p.334.) There was also a "rail" for hauling coke from the
coke bunker to the furnaces. (cf. Ibid. pp.276-277.) However, the "rail"
and leading from the corspe lift to the furnaces was, by Aktion Ho"ss,
abandoned in favor of simply simply dragging the corpses in a
water-slickened trough created when the turntable rails were removed and
using a "corpse stretcher," instead of the "wagon," to insert the corpses
into the muffles. (cf. Ibid. p.495, sketches by David Olere [Documents 30
& 38], pp.493,496; Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.53.) 

However, the rails leading from the turntables to the furnaces where left
intact (they can be seen in the ruins) and should been able to have been
seem from either the corpse lift or the vestibule running from the Kapos
room to the prisoners' rest room. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, pp.276-277.) 

> ...nor did she see the people being gassed or burned, and this was in the 
> summer of 1944, when thousands of victims allegedly had to be burned in open 
> pits.....

The deportation of the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz during Aktion Ho"ss
took place primarily between May 15, 1944 and July 9, 1944. (cf. Gutman,
_Anatomy_, p.466.) It is can hardly be considered suprising then, given
that Aktion Ho"ss was basically concluded by the end of July 1944, that
the Kremas would no longer be working without stop.

> ...then,those two pipes which she said contained the gas.......

I think Bimko might be switching her narration back and forth here. The
room she say that has a "very low ceiling," two "pipes" which she was told
"contained the gas," and "two large metal containers containing gas"
sounds like L.Keller 1. 

L.Keller 1's ceiling was low for such a large room, being 2.4 m
(aproximately 7'11") high. The two "pipes" were probably the ventilation
baffles in the ceiling. The "two large metal containers containing gas"
were probably simply the wire mesh introduction devices through which the
Zyklon B was administered into the gas chamber. The fact that Bimko notes
only two of the four Zyklon B introduction columns is easily explained by
the fact that L.Keller 1 was divided into _two_ seperate gas chambers.
(cf. Ibid. pp.322-323; Gutman, _Anatomy_ p.224.)

> Its a good thing we have the original blueprints for this area....

Indeed it is. It makes the task of exposing lying scumbag Nazi apologists
for the lying scumbag Nazi apologists they are much easier. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 17:04:56 PDT 1996
Article: 73920 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: antisemitism
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:42:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <323e9a12.644105@news.pacificnet.net> <53aup7$pmo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <53c9ne$13@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <53cgi4$jsp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <53crau$rk0@is05.micron.net><323e9a12.644105@news.pacificnet.net> <53aup7$pmo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <53c9ne$13@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca> <53cgi4$jsp@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <53crau$rk0@is05.micron.net>  <53r237$t8i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <53r237$t8i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi)Fri, 11 Oct 1996 20:21:42 -0700
> writes:
> :>
> :>In article <53crau$rk0@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:
> :>
> :>Look who's back. What, couldn't scam another free month on AOL ?
> 
> No.  Giwer has a massive list of ISPs.

At the rate the gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch is getting his ass booted from
ISP's he _needs_ a massive list of them!


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 19:21:08 PDT 1996
Article: 73924 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ORAL SEX? & DANNY KEREN ET AL
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 15:56:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Distribution: X-no-archive: yes
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In article <32615643.6060624@news.demon.co.uk>, redux@perdrix.demon.co.uk
(Fergus McClelland) wrote:

> Dear Mr Keren, 

[McScum's anti-Semitic ravings snipped]

> I do hope that you do not think that this is too personal a question,
> it is just that you are known on Alt Revisionism for your rationality
> and calmness, so it is to you I turn.

Yep, it was just matter of time before McScum bit the dust. Just couldn't
take the pressure of _not_ acting like the piece of anti-Semitic filth he
is any more it seems.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 13 19:21:09 PDT 1996
Article: 73987 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vergasungskeller BITES THE DUST!
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 16:14:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <52uiih$50@access5.digex.net> <52vls9$g8h@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53m02j$at5@is05.micron.net><52uiih$50@access5.digex.net> <52vls9$g8h@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53m02j$at5@is05.micron.net>  <53red6$26j0@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <53red6$26j0@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  - dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
> writes:
> :>
> :>kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> :>
> :># Ooh goody!  I can't wait.  More debunking of that filthy
> :># piece of lying, Jewish excrement known as the "Holocaust."
> :># I can't wait until 1997.  Fun, fun!
> :>
> :>Someone willing to help this person? He seems to be in
> :>serious trouble. 
> 
> Well Danny, you know what happens to Matt when this month's supply of pyote
> starts to wear off and he has to go back to the cheap wine.
> 
> Interesting that he is now posting under at least three names.

Probably due to hanging out with the Morans too much. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:00 PDT 1996
Article: 74096 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blackmore's Mediaval Science
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 05:30:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 173
Message-ID: 
References: <53rprr$60i@news.enter.net> <53svs1$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <53svs1$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

[snip]

> >  The question, of course, is not whether there was typhus but whether it 
> >  can be easily controlled without DDT. The fact, of course, is that it 
> >  could have been controlled with the resources Kramer had on hand. 
> >  It could.
> 
> Wrong again, counselor.  You aren't making much progress
> this week.

BZZZT! Wrong again, Herr Schwarzesel! But thanks for playing anyways.
Don't let the door hit you on your schwarzesel on the way out....

The U.S. Army specified simple methods to help control lice in the field.
Like boiling some water and soaking infested clothes in it. Or like
steaming clothes in a "Serbian barrel" over boiling water. Or like like
rinsing with vinegar....

Obviously, the U.S. Army felt lice, and hence typhus, _could_ be
controlled without DDT. 

> >  The outstanding authority on typhus was Hans Zinsser.  Writing in 1934 
> >  (before the development of DDT) Zinsser wrote about WWI:
> 
> You have the quote from the U.S. Department of the Army.  Deal with it.

Speaking of quotes from the U.S. Army:



                   U.S. ARMY DISINFESTATION METHODS

Extracts from the <> published by
the United States War Department, Washinton D.C. 1940, taken from chapter
9 <>.

168: CONTROL MEASURES:

(2) Disinfestation of clothing and equipment.

b. Lice and their eggs are killed in one minute when subjected to dry heat
at a temperature of 155°F [68°C] or in fice minutes at 131°F [55°C].
immersion in boiling water for thirty seconds kill both adults and eggs.
Dry heat will not injure leather, felt, or webbing but will harm woolen
fabrics. Boiling water will cause shrinking of wool but steam causes very
little shrinkage.

171: MOBILE DISINFECTORS:

These are the four wheel trailer type and are usually steam pressure
disinfestors although a current steam disinfestor is manufactured (thresh
type). The pressure type consists of a horizontal steam chamber around
around which there is an outer jacket which is assembled as a unit with a
boiler. After the clothing is placed in the disinfestor a vacuum of 10 to
15 inches 254 to 381 mm of Mercury] is created after which the steam is
turned on until a positive pressure of 15 pounds [6.8 kg] is attained
[corrosponding to a water temperature of 165°C], this being held for about
twenty minutes. At the end of this time the steam is released and a vacuum
10 to 15 inches is produced in order to dry the clothing. This vacuum is
held for about five minutes. Clothing should be placed loosely in order
that the steam may penetrate.

172. SERBIAN BARREL:

a. (Summary) here clothes placed in a galvanised garbage can or similar
with wire mesh in the bottom are disinfested by having steam from boiling
water underneath pass through them for forty five minutes.

173. IMPROVED HOT AIR DISINFESTORS:

Clothing and equipment may be placed in ovens, boxes or cans are subjected
to dry heat. Small buildings or dugouts may be converted into air
disinfestors by installing heating apparatus which will heat the air to
160°F [71°C]. Clothing should be hung loosely and exposed for about thirty
minutes. 

175: HOT WATER:

Cotton, linen or silk clothing may be disifested by immersion in boiling
water for one minute or in water having a temperature of 135°F [57°C] or
more for five minutes. In order to disinfect as well as disifest, the
cloting should be subjected to a temperature of at least 160°F [71°C] for
fiften to thirty minutes. Woolen clothing can be disinfested by this
process, but considerable shrinkage will occur. Leather, felt or webbed
articles are damaged by exposure to hot water.

177: CHEMICALS:

a. Chemicals such as acidic acid (vinigar), kerosene, gasoline, cresol or
napathalene may be applied to the person or clothing of the infested
individual. Most of these substances will not kill the eggs however.

b. (Summary) a 5% solution of cresol in water or a 2% solution that can be
maintained at a temperature of about 100°F [38°C] for thirty minutes.

c.(Addendum of December 1943): Methylbromide bag fumigation using a
special bag already containing an ampule of 20cc. The time for exposure
varies according to the temperature of the clothing: at 55°F [13°C] or
above, three quarters of an hour. For each 10° [5-6°C] drop below 55°F,
half an hour is added to the fumigation period, giving one and a quarter
hours at 45°F [7°C], one and three quarter hours at 35°F [2°C] and two and
a quarter hours at 25°F [-4°C].

These extracts from the U.S. Army reccomendations on field sanitation show
the different delousing methods that can be used according to the effects
to be disinfested.

>

Pressac, _Technique_, p.66.



You have the quote from the _Medical Field Manual: Field Sanitation_, 
published United States War Department.  Deal with it.


FWI, Herr Schwarzesel, many of the above methods, used by the U.S. Army at
the time, were nearly identical to those used in the Zentral Sauna at
Auschwitz II-Birkenau. Why couldn't Kramer also do it? 

[snip]

> Well, your allies should not have bombed Germany into
> rubble, then maybe the people would have had water to
> bathe with.  

Herr Schwarzesel, please provide _factual_ evidence (as opposed to your
Nazi apologia) that shows that Allied bombing caused the inabilty of the
SS to boil water at Bergen-Belsen. Your prompt failure to do so will
simply confirm that you are once more promulgating scumbag Nazi apologia. 

> Also, testimony was given at the Belsen
> Trial that many of the inmates were filthy, wallowing in
> the filth they had themselves created.  Don't ask me to
> repost it.  The quote is already posted.

As is the quote by Reitlinger, citing _The Belsen Trial_ (p.178), that
states that Allied bombing did NOT contribute to the deaths at
Bergen-Belsen. (cf. Reitlinger, _The SS: alibi of a nation 1922-1945_,
p.425.) 

[snip]

> > DDT was not necessary.  The will to control the typhus was all that was 
> > required.  Kramer did nothing.
> 
> Fool.

Lying scumbag Nazi apologist.

> >       Guilty as charged.
> 
> You are guilty of distorting the truth as usual.  Anyone who
> would believe you should have their head examined.

So sayeth the lying scumbag Nazi apologist. Pardon my laughter, but
anybody who'd believe _you_ obviously has their head up _your_ ass, Herr
Schwarzesel.  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:01 PDT 1996
Article: 74106 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 05:49:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <53rqsp$60i@news.enter.net> <53stsp$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53stsp$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:


[snip]

> You are the liar, for you promised toxicological reports allegedly taken of 
> gassed victims and Dachau then failed to produce them

Er, no. To my best recoolection, Herr Schwarzesel, nobody _promised_ you
any such thing. Your were told to get off your lazy schwarzesel and
research it yourself. You were even told that Dr. Larson's report was
included in the Congressional Record. 

But leave it to a lying scumbag Nazi apologist to state otherwise....


Here's another helpful researh hint, Herr Schwarzesel. Try looking peruse
the National Archives, specifically:

Dachau Trial RG 153 Box 180-235 (and soon RG 338).

There's only about 125 cubic feet of documents to wade through. However,
do call ahead and arrange an appontment with the staff first. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:02 PDT 1996
Article: 74109 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 05:55:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qb4o$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53rtao$fq6@is05.micron.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53rtao$fq6@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Herr Schwarzesel's scumbag Nazi apologia, rather. It is obvious that
> >Kramer, by his perverse cruelty and inaction, killed thousands of inmates
> >at Bergen-Belsen. Equally obvious is that he surrendered Bergen-Belsen
> >because he had no viable alternative with the British Army at the gates.
> >As to not having to explain his actions to Klein? What is to explain?
> >Kramer murdered thousands by depriving them of food and water and forcing
> >them to live in horrid conditions until they died. 
> 
>That "Holocaust" claim has been pretty soundly debunked if you were paying 
> attention

By whom, Herr Wankermeister? Herr Schwarzesel?  ROTFL!

Oh, you _are_ such a funny wanker, Herr Wankermeister. What other tricks
do you do? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:02 PDT 1996
Article: 74120 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just for the fun of it...
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 04:15:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53t0so$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) writes:

[snip]

> >  Then there is the question concerning the quality of your sources.

[snip]

> >>>>
> ROTFL.....the quality of MY sources?  Read Ada  Bimko
> and then get back to me.  

I did. Suffice it to say, Herr Schwarzesel, your "interpretation" of
Bimko's testimony leaves much to be desired. Your silence to my rebuttal
of your specious drivel simply confirms this.

> After that read Soviet Def Comedy Jams part 1-6 and then get back to me.

Been there, done that. It's all garbage. 

About par, I'd say, for a lying scumbag Nazi apologist like yourself.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:03 PDT 1996
Article: 74122 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vergasungskeller BITES THE DUST!
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:24:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
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In article <3261F949.61E8@nbnet.nb.ca>, Keith Morrison
 wrote:

> Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >         I checked with the Tampa newspapers.  "The Three Faces of Eve"
> > was shown locally just before "Just Moshe" appeared and "Kurt Stele"
> > reappeared.
> 
> There is some debate over whether MPD is a genuine phenomenon.  Then again
> there is some debate over whether Giwer has a functioning neuron.

I thought _that_ debate ended when the gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch's neuron
fizzled out? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 08:46:04 PDT 1996
Article: 74123 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I always get the feeling
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:23:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 330
Message-ID: 
References:  <53heff$kne@is05.micron.net>  <53ppoe$kjq@is05.micron.net> 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> 
> # According to the "Holocaust" tale they gassed people
> # every 5  - 20 minutes.
> 
> Rubbish. The large gas chambers held at least 1,500 people.
> It is impossible that they were used at a rate even close
> to the one you give.

Obviously, Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, can't discern
between how long the Nazi gassed their victims to death with Zyklon B to
(5-20 minutes) and how long it took to get all 1,500 or so victims
undreressed, into the homicidal gas chamber where they were murdered,
hauled out, and their corpses plundered and incinerated (about a day.) 

> # If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas
> # people than to gas lice.
> 
> But it's not true.

Indeed it is not. Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, failed to
consider that for every transport of deportees (~1,000 people) murdered in
the the gas chamber it took about 4 kg of Zyklon B (6 kg for 1,500
people). However, in addition to delousing the clothes of the _registered_
inmates, the personal effects of the victims were also disinfested. 

So, how much Zyklon B was used in the delousing gas chambers? According to
NI-9912 (section  IX): 

"...For inside temperatures of more than 5 degrees Cent. it is customary
to use 8 g prussic acid per m3. Time needed to take effect: 16 hours,
unless there are special circumstances such as a closed-in type of
building, which requires less time. If the weather is warm it is possible
to reduce this to a minimum of 6 hours. The period is to be extended to 32
hours if the temperature is below 5 deg. Cent.

"The strength and time as above are to be applied in the case of: bugs,
lice, fleas, etc., with eggs, larves, and chrysales." 

"For clothes moths: temperatures above 10 deg. Cent.: 16g per m3 and 24
hours to take effect. (Pressac, _Technique_, p.19.) 

So, 8-16 grams of Zyklon per cubic meter, depending on the insect. How big
were the delousing gas chambers? 

Note: grams of prussic acid per cubic meter does _not_ equate to grams of
Zyklon B per cubic meter. Zyklon B was the carrier for the prussic acid
(HCN). According to _Nazi Mass Murder_  (p.206) the Zyklon B carrier held
aproximately twice its weight in prussic acid. This would mean that a 1 kg
can of Zyklon B actually contained about 660g of prussic acid.


Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I
===================================================

The disinfestation chambers in Block 26 measured 7.80 m x 4.92 m and 9.70
m x 4.92 m. (cf. Ibid. p.24.) Assuming a height of 3.8 m (same as in the
delousing chamber of Block 1) that gives volumes of ~146 cu m and ~181 cu
m, respectively. A disinfestation time the same as that of Block 3 is
assumed. (See below.)  

The disinfestation chamber in Block 1 measured aproximately 5.5 m x 3.2 m
x 3.8 m, for a volume of ~67 cu m. According to Andrzeje Rablin, a
prisoner who worked the disinfestation gas chambers of Block 3, it topok
about 26 hours per disinfestation (cf. Ibid. p.27.) I will assume a
similar time for the disinfestation gas chamber in Block 1. 

The disinfestation chamber of Kanada I poses problems in estimating how
much Zyklon B was used. Pressac gives no dimensions for it, however he
does supply a map of the installation that shows where the disinfestation
chamber is located, and that it occupies one half of the building it is
in. (cf. Ibid. p.41.) Fortunately, one can get get a rough measure of the
dimensions to the disinfestation  building in Kanada I from one of Ball's
air photos: 10 m x 4 m. (cf. Ball, _Air Photo Evidence_, p.34.) Assuming a
room height of 3.8 m (i.e. that of Block 1's chamber), and that the
chamber occupied half the building, the Kanada I disinfestation chamber
would have had a volume of 76 cu m. According to Josef Odl, a prisoner who
worked in Kanada I in the spring of 1944, multiple cans of Zyklon B were
used in each disinfestation which, also according to him, took
approximately one hour. (cf. Ibid.) 

Then there were the 19 Zyklon B delousing chambers in the Stammmlager
reception building. Each had a volume of about 10 cu m and used heated
forced air to reduce the disinfestation time to somewhere between 1-2
hours. (Pressac, _Technique_ p.31; Van Pelt, _Auschwitz: 1270 to the
present_, p. 220-221.) 

Now, given that Rablin explicity stated that the time taken for delousing
was 24 hours, (and given that the plundered clothes of the inmates were
shipped back to the Reich) it is quite probable that the disinfestations
were done using 16g of HCN per cu m -the concentration and time dictated
to kill clothes moths (and, of course, lice, fleas, etc.). 

Note: Given that Zyklon B came in 200g, 500g, 1 kg, and 1.5 kg cannisters,
I will adjust the estimated Zyklon required (below) to the nearest
cannister amount. (Pressac, _Technique_, pp.16-17,21.)

This would then indicate that the two disinfestation chambers in Block 26
would probably have used 8 kg of Zyklon B per (combined) disinfection and
1.5 kg for Block 1's chamber. 

The Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers where used to disinfest the
clothes of registering (or registered) prisoners. If used continuously
they could each perform, at most, 24 disinfestions per day and use,
assuming 8g cu m instead of 16 g cu m, 3.8 kg of Zyklon B per
disinfestation. (The reason for assuming 8 cu m is due to the nature of
the Stammlager's disinfestation process which was geared to disinfesting
and _returning_ the to the prisoners' their clothes. Arguably, the only
purpose involved here would be delousing, which requires only 8g cu m of
prussic acid.)

Estimating the Stammlager's capacity is somewheat difficult, considering
that it was designed in 1942 for a camp population of 30,000. By the time
of it's completion in April/May 1944 the the population of Auschwitz was: 

Auschwitz I     16,000 men
Auschwitz II    15,000 men 21,000 women
Auschwitz III   15,000 men
                -----------------------
                46,000 men, 21,000 women
        Total   67,000 prisoners

cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.606.

If we add to this the estimated 44,000 Hungarian Jews who survived
selection during Aktion Ho"ss, that would bring the total to over 100,000
prisoners. How many of these prisoners actually would have been deloused
in the Stammlager? Probably most the new prisoners who were registered in
Auschwitz I. Probably the already regstered prisoners in Auschwitz I.
Probably _not_ those in Auschwitz II and III. So, probably at best, 16,000
people could have been eligible for disinfesting at the Stammlager. 

Given that the Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers, each 10 cu m, were
quite similar in size to the hot air disinfesting chambers in the Zentral
Sauna at Birkenau it is not unreasobale to assume a similar capacity.
Photos of the hot air chambers indicate that the garment trolleys held
about twenty garmnets and each hot air chamber held two trolleys for a
total of about 40 garments. If a similar capacity is considered for the
Zyklon B chambers in the Stammlager, this would mean, given a 2 hour
disinfestation time, that over 9,000 garments could be disinfested per 24
hours.  Assuming that 18,000 garments (approximately the population of
Auschwitz I) were disinfested, that would have required 450 disinfesting
chamber cycles, or 90 kg of Zyklon B, and would have taken (optimisticaly)
the Stammlager's 19 chambers a few days to accomplish. 

Note: However, as the evidence of any such proactive hygienic measures are
quite to the contrary, it is probably realistic to think in terms of
_months_ for such numbers of prisoner garments being disinfested rather
than days. Such marked difference between the Stammlager's cpacity and
reality simply further evidences the homicidal motives of the Nazis by
making sure that good personal hygiene was nearly impossible. 

Obviously, the Stammlager's disinfesting chambers had some major
ovecapacity. This rasies the question as to whether the Stammlager's large
disinfesting capacity was used to disinfest the plunder of the Hungarian
Jews during Aktion Ho"ss. The Stammlager certainly appeares to have had
the capacity to handle it: during the two months of Aktion Ho"ss it would
have been possible that as many as 540,000 garments could have been
disinfested. (Using 2,400 kg of Zyklon B). 

For Kanada 1's disinfestation chamber, however, we are faced with a bit of
a problem: NI-9912 states an exposure of 16 g cu m of prussic acid for 24
hours, while an eyewitness said it took one hour for the disinfestation
gassing. Either the exposure time was greater than one hour, or the HCN
concentration was higher than 16 g cu m. Or both. 

Considering that a 16 g cu m HCN concentration in Kanada 1's chamber
equates to 1.8 kg of Zyklon B; and that the Zyklon B cans photographed by
the Soviets at the liberation of the camp appear to be primarily 1.5 kg
cans (cf. Pressac, _Technique_. pp.45,47); and that Odl testified that
multiple cans were used, it is arguable that multiple 1.5 kg cans of
Zyklon B _were_ used per disinfestation. This would support an HCN
concentration of greater than 16g cu m. So, it is likely that the
disinfestation time was less than 24 hours. Perhaps much less.  Given that
NI-9912 states that an HCN concrentration of 75g cu m is required before
danger of explosion, 7.5 kg (5 1.5 kg cans) of Zyklon B could have safely
been used to speed the disinfestation process. (cf. Ibid. p.18). 

Therefore, assuming that using four times the Zyklon B would reduce the
disinfestation time required to one-fourth the time (not a given, btw), I
will guestimate that it took 6 hours per disinfestation at Kanada I. Also,
given that the Entwesungskommando at Kanada I had about fifteen people
assigned to the disinfestation gas chamber, and that, in comaprison,
Rablin talks only about himself and another prisoner at one of the
disinfstation gas chambers of Block 3. (cf. Ibid. pp.25,41), I will make
yet another guestimate as to that the loading and unloading of Kanada I's
gas chamber took four hours. Therefore, I will assume that the entire
disinfestation cycle at Kanada took about 10 hours, allowing at most two
disinfestations per day. 

As mentioned above, there were two disinfestation chambers in Block 3.
Given that Pressac does not provide the dimensions for the disinfestation
chambers in Block 3, I can only conject, based on Rablin's account:
"...Since we were afraid of being bitten by the lice we put the chisel,
the hammer, and the can of Zyklon B ready in advance, opened it quickly
and threw the substance on the floor....," that 1.5 kg were used per
chamber. (Ibid. p.25.) This would mean that Block 3's chambers probably
used total of 3 kg of Zyklon B per gassing. 

Furthermore, acccording to Rablin, it _sometimes_ took as long as two days
to fill the disinfestation chambers of Block 3 with clothes. (cf. Ibid.)
Given this, and that it took about 24 hours to disinfest the clothes, I
will assume an _average_ disinfestation cycle-time of 48 hours for the
disinfestation chambers of Blocks 1, 3 and 26.

Assuming all the disinfestation gas chambers in Auschwitz I were being
used and including them (with the exception of the Stammlager's) in the
tally, this would mean that the amount of Zyklon B used in the
disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I would probably have been
around: 

                                Zyklon B 

                          kg/month    kg/year
                         
Block 1 ..................   22          264       

Block 3 ..................   45          540

Block 26 .................  120        1,440

Kanada I .................  225        2,700

                Total ....  412        4,944



Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz II-Birkemau
==============================================================

In Birkenau there two Zyklon B delousing buildings: BW 5a and 5b, located
in camps BIa and BIb. Each building had one gas chamber (10.9m x 9.9m x
4.7m) in which, intially, Zyklon B was used. (cf. Ibid. pp.53,55.) Given
that the volume of the gas chambers 507 cu m, and that because they were
delousing chambers for the prisoners effects an HCN concentration of 8g cu
m was likely, each gas chamber would have probably used 6 kg of Zyklon B
per delousing.

Probably sometime in (late) 1943 the gas chamber in BW 5a was dismantled
and two hot air disinfesting chambers installed in it place. (cf. Ibid.
p.53.)  

Assuming one disenfestation gassing per day the amount of Zyklon B usage
probably was around:

                                Zyklon B 

                          kg/month    kg/year
                         
BW 5a ...................  180         2,160       

BW 5b ...................  180           264       

               Total ....  360         4,320


However, given that BW 5a was converted to using hot air probably in late
1943, that actual amiunt of Zyklon B used by in 1944 would only be 2,160
kg, 


Zyklon B and the 1942 Typhus epidemic at Auschwitz II-Birkemau
===============================================================

On July 23, 1942, Ho"ss issued Komandantanturbefehl 19/42 placing Birkenau
in a state of isolation and increased disinfestation measures due to a
severe outbreak of typhus. In the following few months enourmous amounts
of Zyklon B were requested by the Auschwitz SS to combat the typhus epedic
then raging in Birkenau. Trucks were dispatched to the Zyklon plant at
Dessau five times, probably retrieving on the order of 25 _tonnes_ of
Zyklon B. (cf. Ibid. p.188.)


*****

Now, consider all the above and compare it against Herr Wankermeister's
claim that, "If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas
people than to gas lice."  If we take the Auschwitz-Birkenau State
Museum's official estimate of 1.13 million murdered at Auschwitz,
ascribing _every_ death to gassing with Zyklon (which, of course, is not
the case) that would mean that 4,520 kg of Zyklon B would have been used
for homicidal purposes at Auschwitz. 

However, as I have (hopefully) demonstrated, the amount of Zyklon B used
for disinfestation purposes in _only_ 1943, for example, would have
probably been about 9,000 kg. 

Then there's the issue of the 25 TONNES used for combatting the typhus
epidemic in 1942.... 

Small wonder why I call Kurtzie Herr Wankermeister. To plagerize Mr.
Ferree (sorry Chuck, but it's much too apropo): 

Herr Wankermeister hasn't had a thought since he discovered masturbation.

> # The old "it takes longer to delouse than to gas Jews" position
> # is Nizkor's attempted retort to the Leuchter report.
> 
> It's a medical fact, you poor clown. Look at any relevant medical
> text and check how long it takes for people to die when exposed to
> the same concentration of HCN used for delousing.

Sorry, Herr Wankermeister's too busy playing with himself.

However, for those interested in HCN trivia, please visit: 

http://environment.cc.colorado.edu/Courses/SarahMortonReport/Cyanide.html
http://www.osha-slc.gov/ChemSamp_data/CH_230400.html
http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/15547
http://www.hhmi.org/science/labsafe/lcss/lcss50.htm
http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm

To see exactly what kind of psychopathic anti-Semite Herr Wankermeister
is, please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 12:11:05 PDT 1996
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 12:23:37 PDT 1996
Article: 74156 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:03:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <53stsp$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:


[snip]

> You are the liar, for you promised toxicological reports allegedly taken of 
> gassed victims and Dachau then failed to produce them

Er, no. To my best recollection, Herr Schwarzesel, nobody _promised_ you
any such thing. Your were told to get off your lazy schwarzesel and
research it yourself. You were even told that Dr. Larson's report was
included in the Congressional Record. 

But leave it to a lying scumbag Nazi apologist to state otherwise.... 


Here's another helpful researh hint, Herr Schwarzesel. Try perusing
the National Archives, specifically:

Dachau Trial RG 153 Box 180-235 (and soon RG 338).

There's only about 125 cubic feet of documents to wade through. However,
do call ahead and arrange an appointment with the staff first. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 12:23:38 PDT 1996
Article: 74158 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let's Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 08:50:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <53rvvl$60i@news.enter.net> <53t2pl$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53t2pl$2qb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >  >   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> >  
> >  >  >  You've documented the "torture" of Hoess--the Allies made him sit
> >  >  >  in a courtroom festooned with U.S. flags. If you have better 
> >  >  >  references, don't hesitate to post them. In the meantime, perhaps
> >  >  >  you will refrain from pontificating on what "must be clearly
> >  >  >  understood".
> >  
> >  >  The details of the torture of Hoess come directly
> >  >  from the mouth of the man who captured and
> >  >  tortured him-Bernhard Clarke.
> >  
> >       Actually the account you gave stated that Hoess was roughed up when 
> >  captured by the British.  He gave no statement to the British.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> Roughed up?  No, counselor, tormented, brutalized, and
> tortured, both physically and mentally.

Care to be a bit more specific, Herr Schwarzesel? How EXACTLY was Ho"ss
"tormented, brutalized, and tortured, both physically and mentally?" Why
don't you start with his capture by the British, work your way to his
testimony at Kaltenbrunner's trial, and them to his captivity in Poland
and his trial there? 

You can begin by posting Clark's alleged claims. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 13:09:51 PDT 1996
Article: 74174 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 20:09:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <53f60c$r6i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><53f60c$r6i@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53fsgr$n8q@juliana.sprynet.com> <53hkc9$gug@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53hkc9$gug@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <53fsgr$n8q@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> :>
> :>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>
> :>>  The fact that European Jewry was not exterminated has nothing to do 
> :>>  with whether the Nazis _tried_ to exterminate European Jewry.  
> :>>  But you knew that.
> :>
> :>I have to disagree with that one completely. 
> :>If it had been their intention to exterminate the Jews
> :>within their sphere of control, then there would not
> :>have been a survivor left. The very fact that only
> :>25% of France's Jewish population was ever deported
> :>disproves your thesis.
> 
> Oh bullshit, Mr. "Blackmore".  Simply to state an intent means that one is
> 100% successful or the intent was never stated?  What rubbish.  They managed
> to kill 90% of Polish Jews.  Is that a high enough percentage for you, or
> would you prefer they had killed the entire 100%?

Actually, the Jewish population loss in Poland was more like 98%.  I'd
call that close enough to 100% that the difference is pretty
irrelevant.... (Hilberg, _Destruction_, Table 89, p.670.) 

But, of course, your point still stands: Herr Schwarzesel's "point" _was_
utter bullshit. But then, utter bullshit is what I've come to expect from
such a lying scumbag Nazi apologist as Herr Schwarzesel. He rarely
disappoints too.

Mark


posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 15:08:53 PDT 1996
Article: 163105 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:01:58 -0800
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Message-ID: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 15:36:18 PDT 1996
Article: 74199 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Between a Rock and a Hard Place
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 10:14:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <53talq$7vr@juliana.sprynet.com> 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53talq$7vr@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> During the second world war, the French underground
> paper, "France au Combat" reported that 35 Jewish
> refugees, old men and women, were thrown alive into
> three wells,at Savignyen-Septaine and crushed to death
> by rocks thrown in to fill the wells.
> 
> Source:  Anti-Semitism-Causes and Effects, Paul E. Grosser
> and Edwin Halpern, Philosophical Library, 1983.
> 
> Comment:  Curiously, these graves were never exposed
> at the end of the war.  

Imagine that. That amid the post-war confusion, nobody actually unfilled
some wells and climbed down to get a bodycount? Simply shocking!  

> Another example of inflammatory propaganda against German nationals.

As opposed to, for example, the massacres at Oradour-sur-Glane, Lidice,
Malmedy, etc? 

Isn't it rather odd that lying scumbag Nazi apologists, like Herr Schwarzesel,
are constantly taking issue over such relatively trivial things like the
"three wells at Savignyen-Septaine," citing them as "inflammatory propaganda
against German nationals?" Of course they _also_ take basically the same
issue with things like the mass graves at Treblinka or Babi Yar, or the
incineration pits at Auschwitz.... 

Do I detect an atypical behavioral pattern here or what? Seems like those
lying scumbag Nazi apologists will try and defend mass murders with each
and every breath they take. Probably even their last.

Sounds so.... pathological.


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 18:10:05 PDT 1996
Article: 74205 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news1.wtn.mci.net!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The porous pillars of Krema II
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 17:46:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
References: <53n6bf$3uo@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53n6bf$3uo@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

>  I've just think a bit to this one and I know now why I didn't use
>  this argument a couple of months ago: I bet they will say that the 
>  devices were introduced a bit before people were drag in the 'gas
> chambers'. Ok, no problem, I'll use other arguments.

What _are_ you babbling about now, Mr. Beaulieu? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 18:10:06 PDT 1996
Article: 74220 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.total.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:35:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <32548DDB.794B@itsa.ucsf.edu> <533395$sfh@juliana.sprynet.com> <325530cd.76897734@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <536d5q$4os@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net><32548DDB.794B@itsa.ucsf.edu> <533395$sfh@juliana.sprynet.com> <325530cd.76897734@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <536d5q$4os@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53756b$4tf@is05.micron.net> <53thk8$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53u3mj$rtj@is05.micron.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53u3mj$rtj@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >It means a "gassing cellar", as anyone who knows German knows.
> 
> The word specifically means in German "carburation celler" -- the space in 
> which the primary fuel is converted into combustible gas before being fed 
> into the hearth.  A gas chamber in German would be "Gaskammer."  

Herr Wankermeister, DO try and keep up. Perhaps if you were to stop
fondling your genitals once on a while you would have noticed that Butz,
the person who origionally fabricated the this completely specious
"definition" of vergassungkeller in regards to the homicidal gas chambers
of Kremas II and III, has retracted:

"In my 1976 book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century I offered that this was
a part of the crematorium building devoted to generating a combustible gas
for the ovens... By 1989 Robert Faurisson realized that my original
interpretation was wrong and later in 1989 Pressac conclusively showed
that it was wrong, based on the design of the cremation ovens...."

Butz, _Vergasungskeller_, http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/di/dau/vk.html

[Herr Wankermeister's syphilitic dribble snipped]

And Nazis were supposed to be U"bermenschen?  Ha! If Herr Wankermeister is
any example, a bunch of compulsive-obsessive incompetant bufoons is more
like it. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 07:59:14 PDT 1996
Article: 74423 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Cracow forensic study:another sick joke
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 14:45:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <539qgl$bpf@Vir.com> <325b9e20.7401912@199.0.216.204> <53e21m$jmc@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <325df1b5.1508130@199.0.216.204> <53hq5p$7u6@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU> <53o5fs$89f@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53o5fs$89f@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> rjg@d31rz0.Stanford.EDU (Richard J. Green) wrote:
> >
> >
> > On the contrary, I hypothesize the the revisionists cannot explain why
> > cyanides are present in the homicidal gas chambers at levels above the
> > background levels found in other dwellings (one of which, according to
> > Mr. Beaulieu, was subject to a fumigation).
> > 
> 
>   I've already state something about this few days ago, but as usual
>  your response was avoiding a simple,basical fact: The Auschwitz
>  Chronicle, from Danuta Czech, was written with the use of the Auschwitz
>  camp documentation. The autor stated that on the 9 of july 1943
>  a general desinfection was done in the women's barracks and at
>  the end of the month, it was men's barracks. 

Actually, the source cited in _Auschwitz Chorincle_:

APMO, Dpr.-Hd/3, p.111; Depositions, vol.9 pp. 1292-1298, Account of
Formaer Prisoner Wanda Urbanska.

Sounds like eyewitness testimony wouldn't you say, Mr. Beaulieu? (And we
all know how you just _hate_ eywitness testimony....) Interesting, is it
not, Mr. Beaulieu, that when you think eyewitness testimonies support your
denier dogmatism that you swear by it, but when it refutes your specious
claims you dismiss eyewitness testimonies. (Remember your misuse of Filip
Mu"ller and Dr. Nyiszli, Mr. Beaulieu? I do .) 

I believe that is called a double-standard, Mr. Beaulieu. Such hypocrisy!
Tsk tsk.

>  Since a homicidal gassing can hardly leaves more cyanide traces than a 
> delousing of another barrack, we may expect normally similar levels, wether 
> the barrack was used for a homicidal gassing (which is false) weter it was 
> simply desinfected.

Are you claiming then, Mr. Beaulieu, that ONE disinfestation of a barracks
would leave "similar levels" of HCN as HUNDREDS of homicidal gassings in
L.Keller 1 would? 

[Mr. Beaulieu's denier babbling snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 09:46:04 PDT 1996
Article: 74475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.graphics.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:18:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qbcj$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qbcj$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
> >  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
> >  that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
> >  Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
> >  Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who 
> >  worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
> >  I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
> >  other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
> >  increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
> >  should you care?".
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Herta Ehlert was a petty thief and a liar.
> Read my post on Ehlert for the true circumstances.

Perhaps Herr Schwarzesel should read my lips: "Lying scumbag Nazi apologist."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 09:46:05 PDT 1996
Article: 74479 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.graphics.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-in2.uu.net!nntp.newsfirst.com!nntp.crosslink.net!news.magicnet.net!news.supernet.net!news.thenet.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:22:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <53o694$9g0@news.enter.net> <53q8c5$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53q8c5$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> >  >  > YFE noted as a matter of fact:
> >  
> >  >  >  >  > There was never a statement in front of the Auschwitz Musuem 
> >  >  >  >  > that 4,000,000 Jew were gassed there.
> >  >
> >  >  For the record there were actually 19 of these
> >  >  massive stone slabs in front of Auschwitz which
> >  >  publicly had the false figure of 4,000,000 Jewish
> >  >  dead chisled out in July 1990.
> >  
> >  For the record blackmore is caught in another of his lies.  There was 
> >  never any representation at Auschwitz that 4,000,000 Jews died there. 
> >  Note that he cannot quote the language of such a monument.
> >  
> >  Another "revisionist" caught with his honesty around his knees.
> >  
> >  --YFE
>   
> I have the photographs Yale.

Of you with your "honesty around your knees?" How amusing, Herr
Schwarzesel! Care to post them? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 10:50:48 PDT 1996
Article: 163121 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 15:34:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 13:55:49 PDT 1996
Article: 74506 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:17:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References:  <53qbf5$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53qbf5$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >   In the course of your career have you ever seen anything
> >  like this before? -- I have been a doctor for 30 years and
> >  have seen all the horrors of war, but I have never seen 
> >  anything to touch it.
> >  
> >   Did there appear to have been any attempt made at all
> >  to preserve the lives and health of the inmates of that
> >  camp? -- Absolutely none.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  Brigadier Glyn Hughes testifying. Quoted from "The Belsen
> >  Trial", p. 35.
> >  
> >  
> >  -Danny Keren.
> >  
> Keren's red herrings-appearances can be 
> deceiving and they were in this case.>

And Herr Schwarzesel's evidence of Dr. Kerens' "deception?" Why none, of
course! Obviously, Herr Schwarzesel, has given free-reign to his egomania
and believes if He Says So it must be so! 

Perhaps Herr Schwarzesel should try clicking his ruby shoes together while
saying "There's no place like home!" Who knows, maybe he'll end up in
Hitler's bunker.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 13:55:53 PDT 1996
Article: 74534 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 12:43:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 133
Message-ID: 
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In article <53v21t$d7e@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Herr Wankermeister, DO try and keep up. Perhaps if you were to stop
> >fondling your genitals once on a while you would have noticed that Butz,
> >the person who origionally fabricated the this completely specious
> >"definition" of vergassungkeller in regards to the homicidal gas chambers
> >of Kremas II and III, has retracted:
> 
> >"In my 1976 book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century I offered that this was
> >a part of the crematorium building devoted to generating a combustible gas
> >for the ovens... By 1989 Robert Faurisson realized that my original
> >interpretation was wrong and later in 1989 Pressac conclusively showed
> >that it was wrong, based on the design of the cremation ovens...."
> 
> You (conveniently) left out the rest:  

Herr Wankermeister, I "left out the rest" because I provided a URL to
Butz'z pack of lies. Furthermore, Herr Wankermeister, I was _specifocally_
addressing YOUR specious claim in regards to the meaning of
vergasungskeller:

"The word specifically means in German 'carburation celler' -- the space
in which the primary fuel is converted into combustible gas before being
fed into the hearth."

Obviously, Herr Wankermeister, you have yet again been caught with your
pants around your ankles and you are looking for a (small) fig leaf. 

[Herr Wankermeister's syphilitic dribble snipped]

> Pressac admits that LKI is the dreaded "Vergasungkeller."  But even Pressac 
> admits that LKI had its vents assbackwards.  

Indeed Herr Wankermeister, Pressac points out that this is yet another
indication that L.Keller 1 was not initially designed as a homicidal gas
chamber, but rather was _converted_ into one during the construction
process. 

BTW, Herr Wankermeister, it is nice to see you using Pressac as an
authority on the homicidal installations at Auschwitz. I take it then that
you  will also except his conclusions on L.Keller 1? 

> It could not have functioned as a gas chamber.

Not according to Pressac, who states: "The initial ventillation system of
Leichenkeller 1, which was designed for a basement morgue is not a
<> obsticle to using the room as a gas chamber."  (Pressac,
_Technique_, p.377.) 

Now, Herr Wankermeister, if insist on disagreeing with Pressac's analysis
of the ventilation system of L.Keller 1, I suggest you back up your
unsupporated claims with a chain of reasoning that is consistant with the
evidence

> Zyklon B (lighter than air) would have required air exhausts at the top, not 
> the bottom.

First, Herr Wankermeister, a minor point: Zyklon B is the _medium_ it is
most definetely heavier than air. What you should have said to was "HCN"
which, at STP, when gaseous indeed has a density less than that of air. 

That said, Herr Wankermeister, your grasp of, for instance, the Ideal Gas
Law is obviously lacking. As is your understanding of Archimedes'
Principle. 

By your logic- that gasses of lower molecular weights should rise - it
would imply that the gaseous oxygen and nitrogen in the atmopsphere should
be stratified, as they are of differing molecular weights. Yet they are
not Herr Wankermeister. Oops. Bad "logic" on your part, I'm afraid. 

Simply put, Herr Wankermeister, gasses mix. Only when confined, as in a
baloon, for example, does the molecular weight, and thus the density of
the gas (at STP) in a (isolated) volume, come into play in regards to
Archimedes' Principle. This is why, at STP, helium filled balloons float
while those filled with air don't.

> But what a coincidence -- bomb shelters use air exhaust at the 
> bottom, carbon dioxide being heavier than air. And exhausts at the bottom is 
> what existed in LKI.

Again, Herr Wankermeister, your ignorance of the gas laws leads you to
erroneous "conclusions." If gasses stratified based on their molecular
weights this would imply that there should be a layer of CO2 nearest the
ground, and that O2 and N should be layered above. Yet they are not Herr
Wankermeister. Oops. Bad "logic" on your part, I'm afraid. 

Aside from such glaring demonstrations of your ignorance, Herr
Wankermeister, what actual evidence do you have that "bomb shelters use
air exhaust at the bottom?" Please cite the source you based this claim
on. Preferably, it should be, the ventilation plans to an actual
purpose-built Nazi bomb shelter. 

Then please produce the Nazi documentation that declares that L.Keller 1
was constructed to be a purpose-built Nazi bomb shelter. 

Of course, Herr Wankermeister, your failure to promptly do so will simply
evidence that you are nothing more than a Nazi apologist and boastful, and
stupid, liar. (That you are a pathological anti-Semite goes without
saying.)

> It was a bomb shelter, not a gas chamber.

But you just claimed L.Keller 1 was a "carburation celler," Herr
Wankermeister!  It seems you cannot make up your mind, doesn't it? In
fact, you seem to blindly parrot _whatever_ lie-of-the-month that denier
bufoons like Butz toss out. 

Obviously, Herr Wankermeister, you haven't the _slightest_ clue about what
you spew. You're just yet another brainless Nazi meathead who willingy
prostitutes himself for people like Butz, who use your ilk as cannon
fodder to promulgate _their_ lies. 

Simply said, Herr Wankermeister, you're a Nazi whore. How fitting. 


For evidence of Herr Wankermeister's pathological anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, and that he demonstrates that he posseses an IQ of a fence post,
please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 13:55:54 PDT 1996
Article: 74535 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!panix!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!news-in2.uu.net!news.exodus.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:02:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <325F4E08.167E@itsa.ucsf.edu> <53q9q9$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <53q9q9$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Mr. Harmon-you have been given an in-depth view
> of the actual situation at Belsen, and your close-
> mindedness is evident for the world to see.  I
> have posted the facts in this case, but you ignore
> them because you are the victim of your own
> prejudices.

So sayeth Herr Schwarzesel, the lying scumbag Nazi apologist. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 17:18:46 PDT 1996
Article: 74571 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Miracle on 54th street-In and Out of the Gas Chamber!
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 15:50:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 148
Message-ID: 
References:  <53voip$bau@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53voip$bau@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
>   Stop being such a fool. She said they were hysterical, not that
> >  they were going to kill each other.
> 
> She said they were hitting one another.....

So? Dr. Nysizli, Fillip Mu"ller, and Henry Tauber, for example, all relate
that scenes of obvious hysteria, mass panic, etc. when the victims of
homicidal gassing were viewed. The murdered victims crushed, trampled,
clawed, and climbed on top each other trying to escape the deadly fumes
>from  the Zyklon B.

Your attempt to discredit Bimko over this is laughable, Herr Schwarzesel. 

A swing and a miss. Strike one!

> >  # Aside from all this, she states tha she "saw fumes coming in
> >  # through a small window at  the top."  How interesting....
> >  
> >  She's obviously talking of one of the "bunkers", or Krema IV
> >  or V, in which the Zyklon was inserted via high openings on the side.
> 
> Ha ha, ho ho....she said a "window"....

The gas-hatches were often called "windows" Herr Schwarzesel. A cursory
examination of the construction plans of Krema IV and V quickly reveals
that the gas chambers did not have conventional glass-paned windows.
Looking at _photos_ of Krema V confirms this. Examining three of the
_gas-tight_ "windows" belonging to Krema IV and V (found in the coke store
of Krema I) cleary proves their homicidal purpose. (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, pp.417,426-428.)

The bunkers had similar "windows" used to introduce the Zyklon B. In fact,
as they were converted cottages, that had their _real_ windows bricked up!
(Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.161.)

Your puerile distortion of what Bimko said is laughable, Herr Schwarzesel. 

Inside fast ball catches Herr Schwarzesel looking. Strike Two! 

> >  The simplest explanation is that she
> 
> The simplest explanation is that she is a LIAR

Herr Schwarzesel, shaken, steps out of the box....

>  Further, her statement about healthy and strong individuals being
> >  # placed in the chamber is contrary to everything written about the
> >  # purpose of the selections.
> >  
> >  Testimony of SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Hofmann,
> 
> Another LIAR.

Herr Schwarzesel, still shaken, steps out of the box again....

> >  
> >  
> >  # Also, her statement that she had been in the gas chamber 1 to 2
> >  # minutes is nothing more than a complete fabrication. 
> 
> >  You stupid Nazi clown. First, you imbeciles claim that it would
> >  take the HCN hours to evaporate from the Zyklon, and that it
> >  would take the victims hours to die
> 
> I never said that.  Prove it.  By the way, I am not a Nazi
> nor am I affiliated with any Nazi organization.  

So you claim. But then you _are_ a proven liar. A proven lying scumbag
NAZI apologist, in fact. So, in this context though you may- technically
-not be a card-carrying Nazi, you are certainly a Nazi in the spirit of
the meaning.

> Better think up some other slanderous designation.....

Herr Schwarzesel, Dr. Keren said "you imbeciles." That means more than one
imbecile -i.e more than just you. Clearly his interjection was in regards
to idiotic deniers in general. Of course, you _are_ an idiotic denier, but
the comment was still a generalization.

Herr Schwarzesel swings and... foul ball into his team's dugout. 

> >  Now, you tell us that they
> >  would all have died after a minute or two. The truth is that
> >  the Zyklon releases the HCN, but not that fast; she would not
> >  have died immediately unless she was very close to it.
> 
> Grow up.  It is your own Hoess and other survivors who said
> that the people died within minutes.  Another lie and distortion
> and Danny is going down for the count...no "photographs will
> help you here.....

Really now Herr Schwarzesel. How lame. Tsk tsk.  While it is indeed true
that Ho"ss, Broad, Nyiszli, Bendel, and  Mu"ller etc.- quite a few people
in fact -say the same thing. One need not just take _their_ word that high
concentrations of HCN are immediately lethal. Consider the following, for
example, which is not, to my knowledge, based Nazi or survivor testimony:

=============================================================================

Relationship between concentration and effects when inhaling hydrogen cyanide

 Concentration (mg/m3)
                                     Effect
 300
                        Immediately lethal
 200
                        Lethal after 10 minutes
 150
                        Lethal after 30 minutes
 120-150
                        Highly dangerous (fatal) after 30-60 min.
 50-60
                        Endurable for 20 min. - 1 h without effect
 20-40
                        Light symptoms after several hours

=============================================================================

Source: http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm


For those interested in additional HCN trivia, please visit: 

http://environment.cc.colorado.edu/Courses/SarahMortonReport/Cyanide.html
http://www.osha-slc.gov/ChemSamp_data/CH_230400.html
http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/15547
http://www.hhmi.org/science/labsafe/lcss/lcss50.htm


Herr Schwarzesel, expecting a fast ball, gets a curveball instead! He
swings and misses by a mile! Steeeeerrriiiike THREE! He's outta there!  


[The rest of Herr Schwarzesel's unsportsman-like conduct snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 17:18:46 PDT 1996
Article: 74586 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 14:14:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <53ulrt$ses@news.enter.net> <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> >  
> > I never promised them.  I told where they could be found in the public 
> > record and told you to do your own research.  You were too lazy or too 
> > afraid to  bother.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> The day I fear your "evidence" is the day I will stop posting.

Would that be the day our dear "Ehrlich" returns by any chance? 

In the meantime, Herr Schwarzesel, if you are so fearless, why haven't you
looked in the COngresional Record for Dr. Larson's report? Why haven't you
posted it here in the group? 

I'll tell you why: I contradicts your scumbag Nazi apologia.

Yes, you _do_ indeed fear such evidence. You, being a lying scumbag Nazi
apologist, always have and always will.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 17:18:47 PDT 1996
Article: 74588 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.total.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD: LEGEND AND REALITY
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:02:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References:  <53ngbl$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53v8bp$d7e@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53v8bp$d7e@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Rather, Herr Schwarzesel, why don't we discuss why you lied about the
> >Discovery Channel, your specious and disingenous use of _The Belsen Trial_
> >in support of your lies that the British did not supply the camp with
> >water from the river nearby with the equippment on-hand at the camp; your
> >lies regarding that the defendants at the Malmedy trial were tortured; and
> >your Nazi apologia in regards to Streicher, Pohl, Go"ring, and Ho"ss? 
> 
> >Or would that scare the crap out of a lying Nazi apologist like you, Herr
> >Schwarzesel?
> 
> Oh yes, this is the same Mark Van Alstine who couldn't give shit for an 
> explanation for how LKI, the cornerstone of the Auschwitz gas chamber myth, 
> could not have operated as a gas chamber since it wasn't built with any vent 
> holes in it.  Yet when queried by CECEAA the pussilanimous Van Alstine fled 
> with his tail between his legs and is still evading the point to this day. 

Actually, Herr Wankermeister, if you weren't so busy playing with yourself
you would have noticed that the thread in question is a _very_ long
running one.* In fact it predates _your_ coming to a.r. by a goodly amount
of time. Also, if you weren't so busy playing with yourself, you would
have noticed that I have had over 100 posts, many that go into great
detail and that required a fair amount of research, to this thread
addressing the false "issues" the deniers, of which Mr. Allen is but one,
have tried to pass off. In _every_ instance, Herr Wankermeister, I have
rebuutted their claims and THEY then CHANGED the subject. 

Some "running away," eh, Herr Wankermeister? Perhaps it _is_ best that you
go back to playing with yourself. It seems to be the _only_ thing you're
remotely good at.... 

[Herr Wankermeister's syphilitic dribble snipped]

Mark

*"Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars..."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 19:07:48 PDT 1996
Article: 74591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD: LEGEND AND REALITY
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:10:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: <53thir$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53vlk1$bau@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53vlk1$bau@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> >  In message  -
mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark
> >  Van Alstine) writes:
> >  :>
> >  :>In article <53qce3$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  :>
> >  :>[snip]
> >  :>
> >  :>> ...Atleast I don't go around parading photos of people who
> >  :>> died from disease and then imply that they were murdered.
> >  :>
> >  :>No, instead  Herr Schwarzesel, when confronted with the graphic evidence
> >  :>of Nazi murder by brutality, privation, starvation, and disease at
> >  :>Bergen-Belsen, tries to white-wash said Nazi crimes, vindicate those 
> >  :>Nazis in charge, and implicity and/or explicity blame the British
for the > >  :>deaths of the victims of Nazi persecution there. 
> >  :>
> >  :>All in a day's work for a lying scumbag Nazi apologists like Herr 
> >  :>Schwarzesel.
> >  :>
> >  :>(And yes, he _has_ flipped.)
> >  
> >  All it seems in a desperate attempt to deflect things to the "atrocities"
> >  suffered by the Germans.  Now where have we seen that line of reasoning
> >  before?
> >  
> >  
> >  --
> >  Gord McFee
> >  I'll write no line before its time
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Are you saying that Germans who suffered as
> much or worse than some Jews are not deserving
> of equal compassion?

I though my meaning was was quite Herr Schwarzesel:

That you, when confronted with the graphic evidence of Nazi murder by
brutality, privation, starvation, and disease at Bergen-Belsen, have tried
to white-wash said Nazi crimes, vindicate those Nazis in charge, and
implicity and/or explicity blame the British for the deaths of the victims
of Nazi persecution there. 

To put it more bluntly, Herr Schwarzesel: 

You are a lying scumbag Nazi apologist.

Which part of "lying scumbag Nazi apologist" don't you comprehend? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 19:07:49 PDT 1996
Article: 74593 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Just Moshe Speaks
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 16:25:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 61
Message-ID: 
References: <53vi49$seg@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <540bdj$fdi@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <540bdj$fdi@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <53vi49$seg@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Matt Giwer
> simultaneously posting as Just Moshe and also Gordon McFee
>  wrote:
> 
> >       Is there a problem with holding conversation with a handle?  
> 
>     Matt Giwer seems to think so.
> 
>     "Idiot handles, dickless wonders too cowardly to use their own name,
> are scum."
> 
> (Matt Giwer, article ID <52ooco$lvm@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> 30 Sept 1996)
> 
>     Matt Giwer seems to think you are a dickless wonder and scum.  Why
> don't you take it up with him, Matt?  Do let us know which dickless scum
> wins the argument. 

ROTFL! 

The Giwer-eunuch gets into a pissing match with himself! The poor drunk
sod will just end up pissing all over himself again....

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, posed as others (both real and imagined) by
forging posts, and has generally conducted himself with such a complete
lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point
in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 19:07:49 PDT 1996
Article: 74603 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:09:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <53ulrt$ses@news.enter.net> <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  
> 
> 
> 
> >  
> > I never promised them.  I told where they could be found in the public 
> > record and told you to do your own research.  You were too lazy or too 
> > afraid to  bother.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> The day I fear your "evidence" is the day I will stop posting.

Would that be the day our dear "Ehrlich" returns by any chance? 

In the meantime, Herr Schwarzesel, if you are so fearless, why haven't you
looked in the Congresional Record for Dr. Larson's report? Why haven't you
posted it here in the group? 

I'll tell you why: It contradicts your scumbag Nazi apologia.

Yes, you _do_ indeed fear such evidence. You, being a lying scumbag Nazi
apologist, always have and always will.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 20:41:44 PDT 1996
Article: 74625 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Made from 100% pure Jewess hair
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:46:02 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References: <536lbn$ao3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <5374uk$21q@news.enter.net> <53acse$7sb@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) wrote:

> In article <53acse$7sb@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> >         Get over it, dickless.  Not one example of it every happening. 
> You are
> > really very stupid but that comes with having no dick.  
> 
> And what body part are YOU missing that made you so stupid as to pretend to
> be "Moshe" but forget to change your very obvious sig line?
>  
> I believe the missing body part is perhaps your "brain."

Not to mention the parts he _ain't_ swingin' between his legs! 

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, and has generally conducted himself with such a
complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be
no point in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/forgeries.1096
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 20:41:45 PDT 1996
Article: 74626 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer forges articles again
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 18:43:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 74
Message-ID: 
References: <53vgac$hrp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <540aar$f1c@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <540aar$f1c@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <53vgac$hrp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Matt Giwer posing as Gord McFee  wrote:
>                                         ^^^^^^^  whoops!
> 
> >Just unzip to a directory and browse index.htm.  
> >
> >It is agreed this is beyond the ability of so many holohuggers but give it
> >a shot, learn something.  
> 
>     It is agreed that Matt Giwer is a liar - even Matt Giwer agrees.
> 
> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/lie-openly-admitted.html
> 
> 
>     It is also agreed that Matt Giwer can't even do a competent article
> forgery. 
> 
>     Those with recent versions of newsreaders in the rn family who wish to
> killfile confessed liar and forger Matt Giwer no matter what name he
> forges may be able to do so via:
> 
>     /^NNTP-Posting-Host.*tampa.*att.net/h:j

For those on the Mac using "Yet Another NewsWatcher" one can edit one's
group filter, add a new entry and set the header field pop-up to
"NNTP-Posting-Host", the content pop-up to "Contains the Reg. Exp.", and
use the following regular expression:

tampa.*fl.dial-access.att.net

(Don't forget to change the "Label" pop-up to "(killed)".)

The gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch, as the saying goes, will then be history.
Speaking od which:

The  gonadotoxic Giwer-eunuch is, as far as I can determine, a craven
anti-Semitic and racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews
and causing fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has
been said in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to
document claims, pretended not to see posts which contain documented
refutation of his claims (even when they have been emailed to him),
engaged in actual libel, blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi
apologia, crude sexism, and has generally conducted himself with such a
complete lack of intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be
no point in taking the time to read and respond to him.  For detailed and
documented evidence of this, please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse/forgeries.1096
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 20:41:46 PDT 1996
Article: 74627 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:31:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <32632630.59E2@itsa.ucsf.edu> <5410b3$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5410b3$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   Brian Harmon  writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  > Yale Edeiken wrote:
> >  [..]
> >  > >       Which was prompted by compaints about the manner in which the
> >  > >  murder of Jews at Auschwitz was minimized by the authorities.
> >  > 
> >  > Minimized?!  Four million wasn't enough? No, it was prompted by
> >  > David Cole's video, among other reasons.  They were caught in their
> >  > scam, plain and simple.  The dream is over.
> >  
> >  Garbage.  Piper's study began in 1980, many years before
> >  David Cole made his trip to Auschwitz.
> >  
> >  -- 
> >  Brian Harmon 
> >
> 
> >>>>
> Right.  And it took 10 years for them to correct the 
> obvious.  Give us a break.

Once again, Herr Schwarzesel's vaunted "research skills" fall short. Dr.
Piper began his work on the Auschwitz death toll on 1980 and finished the
first _draft_ in 1986. He then presented it, comparing his findings with
Weller's figures, in a 1987 conference in Krakow-Mogilany. (cf. Gutman,
_Anatomy, pp.68,74.) 

By my reckoning, that makes _three_ years between when Dr. Piper _first_
presented his study and when the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum decided
to reassess its official estimate. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 20:41:47 PDT 1996
Article: 74647 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:18:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References:  <540vdp$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <540vdp$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> I never lied about the motives of the Discovery Channel.
> Perhaps you will be kind enough to inform us of their 
> motives for airing a "documentary" where it was stated
> as a matter of fact that 4.5 million Jews were murdered
> at Auschwitz?

And why doesn't Herr Schwarzesel contact The Discovery Channel and ask
this question? Why doesn't Herr Schwarzesel contact The Discovery Channel
and accuse them of conspiring to mislead the public?  Probably because the
cowardly Herr Schwarzesel's scared shitless that if The Discovery Channel
finds out he's been slandering them on the Internet like he has, they will
sick their lawyers on him and rightly sue his butt for libel. 

Gee, maybe somebody _should_ contact The Discovery Channel and clue them
into what Herr Schwarzesel's been up to in regards to slandering their
good name....

[Herr Schwarzesel's drooling snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 20:55:57 PDT 1996
Article: 163498 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:08:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 1
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 15 21:10:16 PDT 1996
Article: 74653 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Vergasungskeller BITES THE DUST!
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:05:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <52uiih$50@access5.digex.net> <52vls9$g8h@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53m02j$at5@is05.micron.net>  <845192723snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <541h9g$hqp@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541h9g$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) wrote:
> 
> >In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel
Keren" writes:
> 
> >> kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> >> 
> >> # Ooh goody!  I can't wait.  More debunking of that filthy
> >> # piece of lying, Jewish excrement known as the "Holocaust."
> >> # I can't wait until 1997.  Fun, fun!
> >> 
> >> Someone willing to help this person? He seems to be in
> >> serious trouble. 
> 
> >I think you'd better have a word with his paymaster at ADL HQ.
> 
> And who pays your salary, Mr. Baron?  The Shoah Foundation? 
> 
> Kurt Stele


ROTFL! This is too choice. I love it when the Nazis start eating there own. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:21 PDT 1996
Article: 74657 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.total.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD: LEGEND AND REALITY
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:19:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References:  <53ngbl$dbq@juliana.sprynet.com>  <53v8bp$d7e@is05.micron.net>  <541fv4$hqp@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541fv4$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Actually, Herr Wankermeister, if you weren't so busy playing with yourself
> >you would have noticed that the thread in question is a _very_ long
> >running one.* In fact it predates _your_ coming to a.r. by a goodly amount
> >of time. Also, if you weren't so busy playing with yourself, you would
> >have noticed that I have had over 100 posts, many that go into great
> >detail and that required a fair amount of research, to this thread
> >addressing the false "issues" the deniers, of which Mr. Allen is but one,
> >have tried to pass off. In _every_ instance, Herr Wankermeister, I have
> >rebuutted their claims and THEY then CHANGED the subject. 
> 
> >Some "running away," eh, Herr Wankermeister? Perhaps it _is_ best that you
> >go back to playing with yourself. It seems to be the _only_ thing you're
> >remotely good at.... 
> 
> So you got your ass kicked pretty soundly, eh Van Schmaltzstine?  Hurts
I would imagine.

Of it hurts _so_ much, Herr Wankermeister. Probably from laughing too hard
while watching the deniers scrambling around for fig-leafs when their lies
were exposed....

> It's OK.  Your fellow exterminationists will forgive you.  Religious
faith never dies.

Evidently so, Herr Wankermeister. Take you for instance. Hitler is worm
food and his Thousand Year Reich went up in smoke in only twelve years.
Unfortunatrely, it took much of Europe, including most of Germany, with
it. Yet you "believe" in it like some brainwashed Hitler Youth who's balls
haven't dropped yet. 

Yessiree, there's a religious fanatic in a hairshirt on every corner it
seems....

Hope _yours_ doesn't itch too much, Herr Wankermeister. 

For those interested in proof of Herr Wankermeister's rabid anti-Semitism,
pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a fence post,
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:22 PDT 1996
Article: 74668 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 20:01:32 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 127
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>  <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >> You don't have jack-shit, neither does any other Holocauster. 
> 
> >So sayeth the Wankermeister. Best you go back to playing with yourself,
> >you're completely out of your league here. 
> 
> You're a poser who can't prove shit to anyone.

Such an eloquent rebuttal, Herr Wankermeister! Such an overwhelming
marshalling of fact and reason to support your claims! ROTFL! 

Such a lame, wanker-jerking, Nazi scumbag is more like it! ROTFL! 

> >Obviously, Ho"ss, when thinking about the death toll at Auschwitz while in
> >Poland, could not reconcile the 2.5 million figure given to him by
> >Eichmann with the figures from the individual major actions at Auschwitz
> >also given to him by Eichmann. When considering both figures, and having
> >first-hand knowledge of the extermination capacity of Auschwitz, Ho"ss
> >realized that Auschwitz _couldn't_ have exterminated 2.5 million in the
> >allotted time-span. Ergo, he gave a new, lower, figure based on his
> >personal recollections. 
> 
>Obviously you have no source or basis WHATSOEVER to corroborate Hoess' 
>revision other than an arbitrary number drawn out of the blue from Hoess' 
>tortured brain, given to his by his Allied captors, to make the Hoax more 
>credible.  It was an arbitrary redrawing of the original figure, and even the 
>new number is far too high.

Not quite, Herr Wankermeister. From _Eichmann Interrogated_: 

On pages 109-111.

 

LESS:  How many Jews were gassed and killed at Auschwitz? 

EICHMANN: Herr Hauptmann, I've read and Ho"ss is supposed to have said,
that he killed four million Jews. Up to now, I've thought that fihgure
exaggerated. But if we're going to talk about figures, whether it's one
million or four million or a hundred amounts to the same thing in
principle. In these last fifteen years, I've done some figuring myself. At
the end of the war, I spoke to my officers of five million. I saw that
figure as a kind of cloud in my mind's eye. In that brief--hmm, how shall
I put it?-apocolyptic speech, or whatever you may choose to call it, I
wasn't looking for exact figures. [...]

LESS: Were the names of the dead Jews registered by your department? 

EICHMANN: Of the evacuated Jews? Or of the ... the total ... the total
number? I never had them. Never had them. 

LESS: Why, then, when deaths occured, were requests for information and
death certificates addressed to you? 

EICHMANN: Inquiries were addressed to me. But there weren't any lists.
There's no point in denying what happened. I'd have to has kept an
enourmous, or anyway let's say an extremely conspicuous file. There was no
such file. 

LESS: If the concentration camps sent reports of deaths to Reich Security
Headquarters, and if the deceased were Jews, wouldn't those reports have
come to you? 

EICHMANN: In the case of Jews, there were no reports. In the case of
individual executions, naturally a record was kept, but the list of
deaths, imagine the sheer bulk ... We had no lists. 

LESS: But this document shows that lists...

EICHMANN: ...yes, that lists were made. Of Jews, too. Comprehensive lists.
But I had no such lists. I wouldn't hesitate to admit it if I'd had the
lists, because I, I didn't kill them, did I? I didn't hang them and I
didn't shoot them.



An interesting dialogue, to say the least, eh, Herr Wankermeister? 

Eichmann gives a "apocolyptic speech" to his officers at the end of the
war, a speech where he gives an inexact figure regarding the number of
Jews killed. Eichmann then says no lists of Jews killed was kept, No
reports on how many were murdered. Yet, when caught in his lies over this,
admits that _comprehensive_ lists _were_ made, but that _he_ never had
such lists. 

So, by Eichmann own admission he gave an "apocolyptic speech" to his
officers at the end of the war where he stated a figure that was "a kind
of cloud" in his  "mind's eye." By Eichmann own admission, there _were_
comprehensive lists regarding the number of Jews killed- but _he_ never
had them. 

And how does this fit in with what Ho"ss wrote? Ho"ss wrote that it was
Eichmann that gave him the 2.5 million figure. Yet Eichmann admits giving
a "cloudy" figure to his officers. Could it not be that Ho"ss too recieved
a "cloudy" figure from Eichmann? Furthermore, Ho"ss also wrote that his
revised figure of 1.13 million killed came from his recollection of the
individual major special actions which were given to him by Eichmann or
his _deputies_.  Eichmann _confirms_ that "comprehensive lists" of Jews
killed were kept but the _he_ didn't have them. Notice that Eichmann
_didn't_ say that his _deputies_ (his officers) didn't have them. Just
that _he_ didn't have them. Could it not be that Eichmann's deputies had
access to the "comprehensive lists" of Jews killed in the individual major
actions Ho"ss summarized? That _they_ told Ho"ss? 

Of course it could.

> >So sayeth the Wankermeister. Best you go back to playing with yourself,
> >you're completely out of your league here. 
> 
> With the likes of you, what -league- is that?  Little league?

No, that'd still be out of _your_ league Herr Wankermeister. Diaper Leauge
is more _your_ level. You, after all, are constantly crapping in your
pants when not playing with your pecker. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:23 PDT 1996
Article: 74674 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD: LEGEND AND REALITY
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:08:04 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
References: <53thir$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53vlk1$bau@juliana.sprynet.com>  <541iqj$hqp@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541iqj$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >> >>>>
> >> Are you saying that Germans who suffered as
> >> much or worse than some Jews are not deserving
> >> of equal compassion?
> 
> >I though my meaning was was quite Herr Schwarzesel:
> 
> >That you, when confronted with the graphic evidence of Nazi murder by
> >brutality, privation, starvation, and disease at Bergen-Belsen, have tried
> >to white-wash said Nazi crimes, vindicate those Nazis in charge, and
> >implicity and/or explicity blame the British for the deaths of the victims
> >of Nazi persecution there. 
> 
> Blackmore proved that Kramer did the best he could. And you have yet to 
> disprove this assertion, van Schmaltzstine. 

Herr Wankermeister, what Herr Schwarzesel proved was that he is a lying
scumbag Nazi apologist, just as you are. Two peas in pod, so to speak.  

What Kramer did the "best he could" was to kill tens of thousands of
prisoners who where under is dominion by brutality, privation, starvation,
and disease. After all, if he could not gaurantee their wellbeing he
_could_  have let go those who were incarcerated on politocal and racial
grounds. He _could_ have appropriated supplies from the SS training
facilities nearby. He _could_ have, as the British did, supply the camp
with water for the prisoners. At the very least, he _could_ have resigned
in protest to the horrid conditions at the camp. 

Instead, like a good little Nazi, Kramer caused tens of thousands to die.
And Herr Schwarzesel defends him for it. And you defend Herr Schwarzesel
for it. 

Peas in a pod, I say. Better keep your hands to yourself, Herr Wnakermeister. 

> >To put it more bluntly, Herr Schwarzesel: 
> 
> >You are a lying scumbag Nazi apologist.
> 
> And you are another lying, lowlife Nizkorite who can't produce anything to 
> prove a shitty little hoax.  

And your proof that I've lied is, Herr Wankermeister? Don't have any, eh?
Thought so. You can add slander to your list of transgressions you've
committed in your depraved and meaningless life. 

For those interested in proof of Herr Wankermeister's rabid anti-Semitism,
pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a fence post,
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:24 PDT 1996
Article: 74681 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Anti-Semitism"? Then, so be it.
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:24:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <326d9545.6348890@199.0.216.204> <32673254.46555308@199.0.216.204> <32610261.3713@rio.com><326d9545.6348890@199.0.216.204> <32673254.46555308@199.0.216.204> <32610261.3713@rio.com> <326860da.140443@199.0.216.204> <541m9n$evu@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541m9n$evu@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <326860da.140443@199.0.216.204> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
> writes:
> :>
> :>
> :>      Chuck, usually I don't bother clicking up your stuff, but seeing
> :>how this one was only 18 lines altogether, and it was retrieved
> :>automatically under the post I took a peek. Usually your stuff is real
> :>lengthy. I don't mind reading some idiotic things now and then, but I
> :>don't usually like long extended examples. I can see I was lucky with
> :>this one. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying it is any better than
> :>the other stuff you have written. It just seems like it affords the
> :>opportunity to incite you to go even beyond your usual. 
> :>
> :>      Now Chuck, maybe you can say what you think the declaration
> :>"means".
> 
> You know Moron, the last time I saw something as stupid as you, it was on life
> support.
>     

Yowwwwza! Boy, was _that_ a zinger. };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:24 PDT 1996
Article: 74683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeeder.servtech.com!news1.io.org!news.uunet.ca!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 21:15:22 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References: <53ulrt$ses@news.enter.net> <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com>   <541liq$hqp@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541liq$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <53vhob$aih@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >> The day I fear your "evidence" is the day I will stop posting.
> 
> >I'll tell you why: It contradicts your scumbag Nazi apologia.
> 
> >Yes, you _do_ indeed fear such evidence. You, being a lying scumbag Nazi
> >apologist, always have and always will.
> 
> You are a lying Nizkor sack-of-shit and your "Holocaust" doesn't add up to 
> anything but a series of chessy, tacky, corn-ball, self-contradictory, Jewish 
> self-indulgent persecution fantasies. And you've signed your name to that 
> pablum.  You pathetic fool.

Did you get your rabies shot for this year Herr Wankermeister? There's
laws about making sure dogs get their shots you know.... Better tell your
owner. 

For those interested in proof of Herr Wankermeister's rabid anti-Semitism,
pathological Nazi apologia, and that he possses an IQ of a fence post,
please visit:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:25 PDT 1996
Article: 74691 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Blackmore: Denier (was Re: Hoess Memoirs)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:22:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <53thi7$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><53thi7$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53vlhj$bau@juliana.sprynet.com> <541mpj$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541mpj$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <53vlhj$bau@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com15 Oct 1996
> 09:29:23 GMT writes:

[snip]

> :>I will give it to you by e-mail if you request it.
> 
> Why only by e-mail?

So he can later deny whatever is in it when it embarasses him, obviously.
It's the credo of the deniers. Especially lying scumbag Nazi apologists
like Herr Schwarzesel.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 00:28:26 PDT 1996
Article: 74708 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 22:13:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <53thdk$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><53thdk$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <53udad$5se@juliana.sprynet.com> <541mi9$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <541mi9$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <53udad$5se@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> :>
> :>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>> 
> :>..  
> :>>  
> :>>  The figure is available in many places, virtually any study of the
Holocaust. 
> :>>  Try Fleming's _Hitler and the Final Solution_, Appendix.
> 
> :>No. Fleming is probably one of the most biased
> :>sources one could refer to-perhaps that is why you
> :>selected him?
> 
> You haven't even read Fleming, have you?  If you had, you would realize what a
> stupid statement you just made.
> 
> Fleming is the deniers' bane.  His work is monumentally sourced, full of
> footnotes, a monument of scholarship.  It is easy to see why the deniers fear
> him.  He cannot be rebutted, since his sources are all first-hand.  Real
> piss-off, right Mr. "Blackmore"?

LOL! Indeed, Gord. I bet Fleming puts a real twist in Herr Schwarzesel's
knickers. I bet Herr Schwarzesel has a real hissy-fit when Fleming is
mentioned, kind of like when you vampire is confronted with a cross: 

 he's outta there! 

Typical scumbag Nazi apologist our Herr Schwarzesel. Not to mention a liar. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 07:15:56 PDT 1996
Article: 74721 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nova.thezone.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN(ne) F(r)A(n)KE
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 15:30:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <53lp33$3in@access5.digex.net> <53lt0m$5hv@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53lt0m$5hv@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
wrote:

> mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> >    Jeff, would you like to explain your subject line?  I cannot see what
> >in Weber's article justifies it.
> >[...]
> >    Are you picking on little dead girls after all?
> 
> Of course he's picking on a dead girl - he doesn't have the nerve to
> pick on anyone live or who has living family!!
> 
> Male Holocaust-deniers seem to suffer from a condition called anorchia,
> where a genetically male person has no 'nads.

The exception probably being the Giwer-eunuch. Though one cannot rule out
bilateral anorchia it might be worth considering Gonadotoxins, given the
Giwer-eunuch's perpetual state of inebriation.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 08:54:00 PDT 1996
Article: 74876 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!imci2!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 09:06:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <53o647$9g0@news.enter.net><53o647$9g0@news.enter.net> <53q8fo$o0m@juliana.sprynet.com> <53thbr$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <53thbr$k6c@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

> :>There most certainly was, and I will be glad to send
> :>a photocopy to anyone who requests it via e-mail,
> :>but they must provide a "snail mail" address, along with
> :>postage to cover cost of photcopying and mail.
> 
> Why can't you just copy the inscription and post that?

Indeed. The (translated) inscription I have is quite short. Nice
photograph too. 

Should be a piece o' cake to post, even for an incompetant like Herr
Schwarzesel.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 13:36:13 PDT 1996
Article: 74897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!news.thecia.net!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another one to add to the Discovery Channel
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:42:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References:  <54110l$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54110l$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> As I just pointed out to Ken Lewis, I WILL post it
> as soon as I am ready.  You wouldn't want me to
> post an opinion before I have thoroughly researched 
> a subject, would you?.....Sure, you would.

Such "concerns" have _never_ stopped you before, Herr Schwarzesel! 

Herr Schwarzesel's "research" methodology: "Ready! Fire! Aim! ...Oops."
(At which point he lies like hell....) 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 16 13:36:14 PDT 1996
Article: 74899 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why So Many Crematoriums?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 11:20:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 80
Message-ID: 
References:  <3269df1c.454669@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3269df1c.454669@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

[snip]

> But the buildings identified as Cremas II and III have the smoke
> stacks sticking out of small ell annexes in the center, which would
> make it necessary to build a considerable flue system from within the
> building where the banks of ovens are said to have been located. 

Indeed. Such a "flue system" can easily be discerned in Bauleitung drawing
932. The flues are labeled "Rauchkanal." (cf. Pressac, _Technique_,
pp.284-285.) 

> No such system has ever been shown. Even though the evidence should still
> be there, no attempts have been made to varify anything.

Bauleitung drawing 932 shows that the flues where underground. Eyewitness
testimony confirms this. Even the Nazis confirm that the flues existed. In
Kirschneck's letter, dated 9/13/43, summarizing a meeting between Pru"fer
and the Auschwitz Bauleitung in regards to repairing the chimney lining of
Krema II. In this letter Kirscheck wrote:

"...Herr chief engineer Pru"fer was in 1942 the consultant for the whole
installation and he declared at the time to SS Second Lieutenants
(Specialists) Ertel [Ertl], Dejaco and Jahnisch [Janisch] that the
Krematorien should be built according to the drawings provided by Messrs.
Topf. As for the chimneys, they should be built acording to the project
drawing for Krema I in the main camp on the one hand and the measurements
and instructions for the indicidual parts of the chimney appearing on the
above-mentioned drawings provided by Messrs. Topf & Sons..." (Pressac,
_Technique_, p.249.)

One of these "drawings provided by Messrs. Topf & Sons" appears to be
Bauleitung drawing 932, which shows the flues to be underground.
Kirschneck continues:

"...During a subsequent inspection and conversation with the Chief Capo of
the Krematorien, it was noted that the collapse of part of the flues was
not error or confusion, as [claimed] in the letter of 6/8/1943 corres.
reg. no. h.e.s./D IV/Prf, but in fact as stated in the Bauleitung letter
of 17/7/1943, whole sections of the roof [of the flues] were caving in in
and the connections between the flues and the chimney were in very bad
condition.... (Ibid.)

Kirschneck talks of the flues collapsing, their roofs "caving in," and
that their connections to the chimney were in "very bad condition." Sure
sounds to me like Kirschneck thought Krema II had underground flues
connecting the furnaces to the chimney....

[snip]

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 00:04:14 PDT 1996
Article: 75042 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Gloat to Henry Ford: "We Control WWI"
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:18:47 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <541p6h$737@is05.micron.net>  <543nnk$f0l@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <543nnk$f0l@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> He enlisted crack journalists from the Detroit Free Press for this purpose. 

Uh, Herr Wankermeister, Henry Ford, _owned_ the _Dearborn Independant_. He
published the _Protocols_ in the _Dearborn Independant_. 

[snip]

> As it turned out, as Henry Ford's investigator's revealed, those Jews WEREN'T 
> trollling.

Really? Then why did Henry Ford apologize for publishing the _Protocols_? 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 00:04:16 PDT 1996
Article: 75043 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ingr.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!mr.net!news.mid.net!news.dra.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: blackmore Evades
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:37:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <541bhv$i3u@news.enter.net> <5425nn$flf@juliana.sprynet.com> 
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In article <5425nn$flf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> >  >  >  
> >  >  >         Please produce the post where I "promised" to supply you
with a 
> >  >  >  pathologist's raw notes and the tox reports?
> >    
> >  >  >         Produce it or stop lying about it.
> >  
> >  >  That isn't even a good try.  where are the reports?
> >  
> >       In Larson's report; where I always said it was.
> >  
> >       Where's the post where I said otherwise, sonny boy?
> >  
> >>>>
> Where are the toxicological reports?  I'm hungry for
> that crow pie I was told I would eat.

It's all ready, Herr Schwarzesel. Nice and fresh and steamy....

Hope you enjoy eating your cowpie. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 00:24:15 PDT 1996
Article: 75059 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 19:01:27 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 155
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>  <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>  <5425on$j5t@is05.micron.net>
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In article <5425on$j5t@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:
> 
> >> You're a poser who can't prove shit to anyone.
> 
> >Such a lame, wanker-jerking, Nazi scumbag is more like it! ROTFL! 
> 
> You're another lying sleazeball Nizkorite who eats Jewish shit for breakfast

See the vet yet, Herr Wankermeister? Or are you still too busy licking
your crotch? Better hurry, though, as I'm told that when a dog get's
rabies they usually have to put the poor thing down. 
 
> >On pages 109-111.
> 
> >An interesting dialogue, to say the least, eh, Herr Wankermeister? 
> 
> >Eichmann gives a "apocolyptic speech" to his officers at the end of the
> >war, a speech where he gives an inexact figure regarding the number of
> >Jews killed. Eichmann then says no lists of Jews killed was kept, No
> >reports on how many were murdered. Yet, when caught in his lies over this,
> >admits that _comprehensive_ lists _were_ made, but that _he_ never had
> >such lists. 
> 
> And were any lists ever found?  

It is hardly suprising that so few have actually been found, considering
that the Nazis made a concerted effort to destroy them: 

"...According to the orders given by Himmler, all information concrnig the
number of victims involved was to be butrned after each action at
Auschwitz.

"As head of Department D I, I personally destroyed everybit of evidence
which could be found in my office. The other department heads did the
same.

"According to Eichmann, Himmler and the Gestapo Headquarters had also
destroyed all their files.

"Only his [Eichmann's] personal notes contained this information. It is
possible that becuase of negligence of some dpartments a few isolated
documents, teleprinter messages, or wireless messages remain undestroyed,
but they could not give enough information to make a calculation...."
(Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p. 39.)

So, the Nazis, who since 1942 had made systematic efforts to erase all
physical evidence of their mass murder of the Jews and others (cf. Aktion
1005), continued this tradition by also erasing the _administrative_
evidence of their mass murder as well. Hardly out of character, I would
argue.... 

> Didn't think so...

Unfortunately for them, and you Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker, not
all such administrative evidence _was_ destroyed. Some evidence survived:
such as records from Reich Railways Department 33 showing that Jews were
deported to the death camps.

And of course, such _documentary_ evidence- railway records, etc. -have
been used by many historians to aid them in making more accurate estimates
on the number of Jews murdered at Auschwitz. 

So yes, some "lists," contrary to your rabid ravings, _were_ found, Herr
Wankermeister The Crotch Licker. 

> >So, by Eichmann own admission he gave an "apocolyptic speech" to his
> >officers at the end of the war where he stated a figure that was "a kind
> >of cloud" in his  "mind's eye." By Eichmann own admission, there _were_
> >comprehensive lists regarding the number of Jews killed- but _he_ never
> >had them. 
> 
> The only "cloud" is in your head.  This doesn't prove a thing.  When are you 
> going to get some genuine, old-fashioned -physical- evidence for your Tale 
> other than "apocalyptic" speculating?   You sound like a fundamentalist 
> reading the book of Revelations for evidence of the Holocaust. Fucking moron  

Well, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker, don't you find it interesting
that Ho"ss's claim of 1.13 million killed in the major "special actions,"
figures he recalled that were given to him by Eichmann's deputies (and in
who all likelihood had access to the "lists" of Jews killed in these
special actions that Eichmann admits existed) is so close to the number
that Dr. Piper compiled some 45 years later as to be uncanny?  Could it
be, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker, that the figures Ho"ss recalls
that were given to him by Eichmann's deputies were pretty much bang on? 

Of course it could be, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker. In fact,
Ho"ss's estimate is too close to Dr. Piper's estimate to _not_ take
seriously. Especially so as Dr. Piper's estimates do _not_ rely on
eyewitness testimonies, but rather on _documentary_ evidence of the number
of Jews deported to Auschwitz.

> >And how does this fit in with what Ho"ss wrote? Ho"ss wrote that it was
> >Eichmann that gave him the 2.5 million figure. Yet Eichmann admits giving
> >a "cloudy" figure to his officers. Could it not be that Ho"ss too recieved
> >a "cloudy" figure from Eichmann? Furthermore, Ho"ss also wrote that his
> >revised figure of 1.13 million killed came from his recollection of the
> >individual major special actions which were given to him by Eichmann or
> >his _deputies_.  Eichmann _confirms_ that "comprehensive lists" of Jews
> >killed were kept but the _he_ didn't have them. Notice that Eichmann
> >_didn't_ say that his _deputies_ (his officers) didn't have them. Just
> >that _he_ didn't have them. Could it not be that Eichmann's deputies had
> >access to the "comprehensive lists" of Jews killed in the individual major
> >actions Ho"ss summarized? That _they_ told Ho"ss? 
> 
> Hoess forgot the overall number earlier but then suddenly "remembered" the 
> very numbers of individuals actions to create 1.13?  

No, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker, Ho"ss gave, at Kaltenbrunner's
trial for instance, the number that Eichmann told him. Is this too hard
for you to comprehend, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker? 

> How could he have forgotten the figures, and then have remembered them
later, and specifically to create a precise 1.135 million?  

Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker, Ho"ss never claimed to have
forgotton the figure Eichmann told him. What Ho"ss wrote was that on
reflection he thought that 2.5 million was too high a figure, and that the
sum of the major special actions was about 1.13 million. Is this too hard
for you to comprehend, Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker? 

> That is like forgetting the score to a baseball game and then later
being able 
> to recall the score in each inning. Preposterous.

Good thing we are not discussing baseball scores then, eh, Herr
Wankermeister The Crotch Licker? 

> And this is the same "eyewitness" who said the Sonderkommandos worked 
> "immediately" to remove corpses from the "gas chambers" (no airing out?) any 
> were smoking and eating during the removal of bodies?  And these claims are 
> the very -foundation- of the Holocaust Lie.

You seem to have have confused yourself with your lies again, Herr
Wankermeister The Crotch Licker. Ho"ss never explicity wrote that the
Sonderkommandos who entered the bunkers to remove the bodies were smoking
and eating as they did so. That is purely a distortion of your making, as
I'm sure you are quite aware of Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker.  

> Get a real hoax.

Get a real life Herr Wankermeister The Crotch Licker. And a rabies shot.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 07:26:06 PDT 1996
Article: 75081 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.total.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SHOAH Uses ONLY Primary Sources
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 01:05:04 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References:  <534bfg$3ps@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <53abdd$cq@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <53j2sc$hob@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>  <53v2tq$d7e@is05.micron.net> <32638643.7C2D@ccnis.net>  <3264E67E.2961@ccnis.net> <543kdn$f0l@is05.micron.net> <3265aaec.592146@news.awinc.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:100372 alt.revisionism:75081

In article <3265aaec.592146@news.awinc.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:43:00 GMT, kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) wrote:
> 
> >"Annie Alpert, OFB"  wrote:
> 
> >>My personal theory is that these kind of guys tend to have
> >>extraordinarily small penises (or think they do) which cripples their
> >>emotional growth.  Because they're afraid to meet live women, (because
> >>they're afraid their little weenies will be laughed at) they choose to
> >>grow big cyber-penises.  Kind of sad, really.
> 
> >Sorry.  Your theory doesn't apply in my case.  You'll have to come up with 
> >something else.
> 
> That is not the story your dates are telling.

Indeed. It seems that Herr Wankermeister is correct in that the growing
the growing of "big cyber-penises" does not apply to him. His cyber-penis,
alas, remains pathetically small and self-abused. 

One can only wonder (laugh?) at the story Herr Wankermeister's "dates" are
telling. (Baaaad Naaaaaazi!) 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 09:00:09 PDT 1996
Article: 163899 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 20:37:30 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 17 09:00:10 PDT 1996
Article: 163973 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 18 00:15:44 PDT 1996
Article: 75234 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING to tour Australia????
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:30:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
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References: <5444jd$bk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <54466n$c5f@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54466n$c5f@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   aryangar@aol.com (AryanGar) writes:
> >  >> aryangar@aol.com (AryanGar) writes:
> >  
> >  yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes
> >  > When was the last time LCN referred to itself as a "criminal
> >  conspiracy?"
> >  
> >  I do not know what U R referring to or who or what the LCN is??  So U have
> >  made not point with me.
> 
>         You've never heard of La Cosa Nostra?  My you lead a sheltered life.

It's those certified Aryan Habitat(tm) flat rocks. They do it every time....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 18 09:25:31 PDT 1996
Article: 75283 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:08:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 120
Message-ID: 
References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com> <3253DC8A.67AE@rio.com> <535ksp$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <325687EF.2534@rio.com> <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>  <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>  <545uta$gni@lex.zippo.com>
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In article <545uta$gni@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
> >wrote:
> 
> >> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >[snip]
> 
> >> >Mr. Carpenter,
> >> >Would you listen to Jewish survivors? 
> >> >Would you listen to non-Jewish witnesses? 
> >> >Would you listen to the Soviets, who were (nominal) allies? 
> >> >Would you listen to the Poles, who were allies? 
> >> >Would you listen to the French, who were allies? 
> >> >Would you listen to the British, who were close allies? 
> >> >Would you listen to United States Army? 
> >> 
> >> We were talking about Ho:ss.
> 
> >Indeed, Mr. Carpenter. And did you not, in regards to Ho"ss, say, "I don't
> >believe anything the enemy says?" Well? Of course you did. Ergo, my
> >question, _also_ in regards to Ho"ss, asking just who you _would_ listen
> >to. 
> 
> >Your evasion of the question is quite telling, Mr. Carpenter. 
> I'm not evading your question, I'm ignoring it.  Your questions
> deal with allies, while my statement deals with Ho:ss, the enemy.
> Remember Chuck said that if Ho:ss said it, then I could believe it.
> Then I said to Chuck: I don't believe anything the enemy says.
> 
> Here is why I can't believe the enemy:
> Military training includes areas of evasion and escape.

> If you can't escape then you must confound and confuse your
> enemy.  Name, rank, and serial number only. 

The war was over, Mr. Carpenter. Germany had surrendered long before Ho"ss
was captured and brought to trial. Long before Ho"ss wrote his memoirs. Do
try and keep up, Mr. Carpenter.

> Of course, real world conditions apply,  the use of torture methods can get 
> anybody to say anything you want them to say.

Mr. Carpenter, the evidence to support  your insinuation that Ho"ss was
tortured into writing his memors is? 

> Look, if you guys want to believe Ho:ss thats okay by me. 
> You can believe all of his story or part of his story.

How gracious of you Mr. Carpenter. :-/

> I choose not to use his testimony because of the built-in high
> probability of inaccuracy.  

Mr. Carpenter, the evidence to support your insinuation that Ho"ss's
testimony (and  memoirs) were innacurate is? 

> Ho:ss' testimony was tainted and so was all the other Nazis' testimonies.

Mr. Carpenter, the evidence to support your insinuation that Ho"ss's
testimony (and  memoirs), as well as "all the other Nazis' testimonies"
were innacurate is? 

Be sure to cite the historical and primary sources to support your
allegations, Mr. Carpenter. And please, Mr. Carpenter, try and restrain
yourself to using acknowledged scholars in the field. 

> >> >Mr. Carpenter, why don't you take a look for yourself and get back to us:
> >> 
> >>
>
>>http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/cyanide/zyklon/images/zyklon-color.jpg
> 
> >> I went, I saw, thank you.  This photo looks like the one in The World
> >> Must Know.
> 
> >Indeed it is, Mr. Carpenter. Any comments on its color? 
> 
> In the book its blue.
>
> In the Nizkor photo, the color is more grey than blue.
> I would still  like to see other photos of Zyklon B tho, just to set
> aside any doubts.  

And I would like to see you try and substantiate your (above)
insinuations, Mr. carpenter, with hard fact and not specious innuendo.
Just to set aside any doubts, you understand, Mr. carpenter.... Perhaps
you will set a precedent that other deniers will follow! 

Imagine that. 

Mark


> 
> >Mark
> 
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and
evil passes 
> >not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
> >right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
> 
> >-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Chris__________________________________________

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 18 09:25:32 PDT 1996
Article: 75286 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:13:05 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <545c47$pra@juliana.sprynet.com> <546aku$rs0@news.enter.net>
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In article <546aku$rs0@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >   Smun@chiba.org (I ain't got no home) writes:
> 
> >  >  >  shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
> >  >  >  hundreds were shot per day.
>   
> >  >  If you wish to be successful in this technique you need to let something
> >  >  like this sit for a month and then post it so it is hard to find what 
> >  >  you left out.  
> 
> >  I'm not worried about it.  Your Holocaust is
> >  on the way out soon anyway.
> 
>         Suckered again, little boy.
> 
> I hope you alternate feet.  It would be sad to think of that many 
> bulletholes in only one of them.

Indeed! First the front hooves, then the hind hooves.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 18 09:25:33 PDT 1996
Article: 75294 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS USE JETS TO DROWN OUT JEWISH SCREAMS IN "GAS CHAMBERS"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 18:53:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 91
Distribution: world
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine
>  writes
> >In article , Jeffrey
> > wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> How about an air photo interpreter? Would he have the expertise?
> >> Somebody like John Ball, in fact.
> >
> >Really? Is this the same John Ball who, in _Air Photo Evidence_, labeled the
> >greenbelt around Krema II the perimeter fence? 
> 
> And what page number is that on, Mr Van Alst? 
> Please give references in future.
> 

========================================================================

Subject:      Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
From:         mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Date:         1996/09/25
Message-Id:   
Newsgroups:   alt.revisionism

[snip]

Mr. Allen, you have "misinterpreted" the photo yet again. This is becoming
a regular habit with you, it seems. You have "confused" Krema II's
electrified perimeter fence with what Mr. Ball incorrectly labels a fence.
That this is the case is readily seen if one were to examines Photo 17 bis
(Pressac, _Technique_, p.341), taken in the summer of 1943, which clearly
shows the perimeter fence of Krema II to extend to the sewage basin, right
up to an access road. (Warning track?)

Compare this to the May 31, 1944, photo of Krema II (Ball, _Air Photo
Evidence_, p.39). One can see, in the air photo, a dark "fence" that, just
as you claim, extends only about three-fourths the way around Krema II.
The problem with this picture is, of course, that this dark "fence" does
not come anywhere close to the sewage basin. In fact, this "fence" extends
only to the end of L.Keller 1, or about two-thirds the way from Krema II
to the access road and sewage basin. 

Evidence of Mr. Ball's duplicity and it appears, perhaps, your
gullibility, Mr. Allen, starts on page 46 of _Air Photo Evidence_. Mr.
Ball's annotation of this dark "fence" reads: "marks looking like fences
around crematorium 1 and 2."  Mr. Ball goes on to make an issue over this
on page 48, where he tries to show that this "fence" has been _drawn_ on
the negatives (!) because it is not the same between the May 31 and August
25 air photos. And on page 62 he remarks, in reference to this dark fence
that, "The crematoria were surrounded by high fences." Clearly, Mr. Ball
is saying that this dark "fence" is the _perimeter_ fence surrounding
Krema II. 

Just as clearly, Mr. Ball is wrong. As you are, Mr. Allen. Whatever this
dark "fence" was, it was _not_ the perimeter fence. 

[snip]

========================================================================

In regards to what the "fence" in question _really_ was, it was a
"greenbelt" of plants/shrubs etc. erected/planted around the Krema to
obscure the fact that people were entering L.Keller 2 and not coming out
alive. 

>From  a letter in rference to a conversation between Ho"ss and Bischoff,
dated November 6, 1943:

"By the order of Camp Commandant SS Lietenant Colonel Hoess, Krematorien I
[II} and II [III] in the POW camp are to be provided with a ring of
greenery to constitute a natural seperation from the rest of the camp...."
(cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.250.) 

Evidently, it seems that Mr. Allen is not the only "gullible" denier
around. Welcome to the club, Jeffrey! You may leave your brains at the
door. Now you and Mr. Allen go play in your denier sandbox like good
little Nazi propagandists....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 18 09:25:34 PDT 1996
Article: 75312 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!news.mcgill.ca!DMI.USherb.CA!sunqbc.risq.net!news.total.net!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 1996 17:37:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References:  <5410ql$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5410ql$6sn@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   karlpov@access3.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  

[snip]

> >  BTW, what was a "Sonderkommando"? What were the duties of a
> >  "Sonderkommando"?  Clerical? Janatorial? 
> 
> You know what the duties of a Sonderkommando was-disposal
> of the dead.  Don't play coy.

Indeed. And what was the tyoical life-span of the Sonderkommando, Herr
Schwarzesel? What would suggest that the typical Sonderkommando would
actually have an _accurate_ idea of the _total_ number of people murdered
at Birkenau? 

Don't play "coy," Herr Schwarzesel, answer the questions- if you dare. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 19 10:44:19 PDT 1996
Article: 75665 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS USE JETS TO DROWN OUT JEWISH SCREAMS IN "GAS CHAMBERS"
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 00:43:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
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NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

[snip]

> How about an air photo interpreter? Would he have the expertise?
> Somebody like John Ball, in fact.

Really? Is this the same John Ball who, in _Air Photo Evidence_, labeled the
greenbelt around Krema II the perimeter fence? 

Some air photo interpreter! ROTFL!

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 12:33:15 PDT 1996
Article: 76190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:17:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References:  <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Hmmmm.  Not at all, the SS themselves executed Goeth, Koch, and
> other camp commanders who abused the prisoners under their
> charge.  Rascher was also executed by the SS.

BZZZZT! Thanks for playing, Herr Schwarzesel! 

Amon Goeth was extradited to Poland after the war and charged with
committing mass murder during the liquidation of the Szebnie camp and at
Plaszow. Goeth was tried before the Polish Supreme. He was convicted,
sentanced to death on September 5, 1946, and executed in Krakow. (cf.
Gutman, _The Encyclopedia of the Holcaust_, p.593; Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_,
p.181fn.) 

Karl Otto Koch was arressted in August 1943 on charges of embezzlement,
forgery, making threats to officials, and "other charges." These "other
charges" evidently were in regards to the murder of prisoners that went
_beyond_ (!) existing orders, as well as for the collecting of tatooed
human skin and shrunken heads. Considering that his wife Ilse was also
arrested in regards to the collection of tatooed human skin etc. and was
subsequently aquitted by the Supreme Court of the SS, claiming that Otto
Koch was convicted and executed _soley_ because he "abused the prisoners"
in his charge is misleading. Obviously, Otto Koch's embezzlement, forgery,
and threats to officials had much to due with his conviction. (cf. Gutman,
_The Encyclopedia of the Holcaust_, p.809.) 

Sigmund Rascher was arrested in May of 1944 not becuase he "abused the
prisoners" under his charge, but because it was discovered that the
Raschers had kidnapped "their" children from orphoanages and raised passed
them off as their own biological children. Himmler refused to have the
Raschers tried, instead they were sent to the political bunkers at Dachau
(Sigmund) and Ravensbru"ck (Frau Rascher). The Raschers soon
"dissapeared," never to be heard from again. (cf. Reitlinger, _The SS:
alibi of a nation 1922-1954_, p.261.) 

Now, Herr Schwarzesel, which concentration camp commandants, exactly, did
the SS execute because they  who abused the prisoners under their charge?"

Or is that too much to ask of a lying scumbag Nazi apologist like yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 12:33:16 PDT 1996
Article: 76195 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 10:53:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 75
Message-ID: 
References: <32504704.4A33@rio.com> <52totc$rns@lex.zippo.com> <3253DC8A.67AE@rio.com> <535ksp$nnn@lex.zippo.com> <325687EF.2534@rio.com> <53h9de$gh7@lex.zippo.com>  <53mfk3$1j3@lex.zippo.com>  <545uta$gni@lex.zippo.com>  <54akrm$1me@lex.zippo.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54akrm$1me@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

[snip]
> Ok guys, wars over - we can all be pals now.
> Let's go get a beer and tell war stories.

Indeed, Mr. Carpenter! Germany is a close NATO partner of the United
States. Has been for decades.  

[snip]

> Did I say "memors"?    _No_.
> Did I insinuate?            _No_.
> Did I make a statement? Yes.

> Do you really want me to give you evidence that people get maliable
> when tortured?

Indeed I do Mr. Carpenter! I _really_ want you to give me incontrovertable
evidence that Ho"ss was tortured into giving his testimony at
Kaltenbrunner's trial, his trial in Poland, and into writing his memoirs.

But, of course, you cannot. Instead you will further prevericate and
dissimulate to avoid the issue. Tyupical denier behavior. 

[snip]

> >Be sure to cite the historical and primary sources to support your
> >allegations, Mr. Carpenter. And please, Mr. Carpenter, try and restrain
> >yourself to using acknowledged scholars in the field. 
>
> That's what I'm looking for - acknowledged scholars.
> If you wer'nt so ascerbic, you might even be able to help me.
> You could say something like:
>         Mr. Carpenter, I know that you give citations for what you post.
>         Here's a list of 15 books that I feel best describe what happened 
>         during that period. Hope this helps.
>  
> Then I could think: Hey, maybe this Van Alstine guy _is_ okay
> afterall.   

You being a denier and all, Mr. Carpenter, I could care less what you
"think." As to helping you, Mr. Carpenter? You don't want help, you simply
wish to cast doubt on the Holocuast. If you _really_ wish to find help,
Mr. Carpenter, you can easily reference the Nizkor Project, which has some
excellent bibliographies in regards to Holocaust resources. You can find
these at:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?bibliographies 

The ball is now in your court, Mr. Carpenter....  
    
> >And I would like to see you try and substantiate your (above)
> >insinuations, Mr. carpenter, with hard fact and not specious innuendo.
> >Just to set aside any doubts, you understand, Mr. carpenter.... Perhaps
> >you will set a precedent that other deniers will follow! 
>
> Bristly today, are we?  

Not at all, Mr. Carpenter. 

> You sure do assume alot, Mr. Van Alstine.

Not at all, Mr. Carpenter. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 14:28:00 PDT 1996
Article: 76207 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS USE JETS TO DROWN OUT JEWISH SCREAMS IN "GAS CHAMBERS"
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:04:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <54ai0k$9k7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54ai0k$9k7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dvdthomas@aol.com
(DvdThomas) wrote:

> >In regards to what the "fence" in question _really_ was, it was a
> >"greenbelt" of plants/shrubs etc. erected/planted around the Krema to
> >obscure the fact that people were entering L.Keller 2 and not coming out
> >alive. 
> 
> The really remarkable thing about them is that they were vampire
> shrubs--they didn't cast any shadows.

And your "evidence" for this is what, exactly? Oh, yes: John Ball, "Air
Photo Interpreter Extrordinaire."

ROTFL! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 14:28:01 PDT 1996
Article: 76209 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why So Many Crematoriums?
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:00:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 102
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <845510229snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> Butz in a study of the cremation capacity showed that actually Auschwitz
> complex had a lower ratio of muffles/retorts than Buchenwald and Dachau.
> 
> 
> per thousand deaths
> 
> 
> Year   Auschwitz Buchenwald Dachau
> retorts   52          6        6
> 
> 1942    1.14       2.07     2.43     
> 1943    1.41       1.71     5.45
> 
> Butz [ibid p378]


Obviously, Jeffrey fails to see the error in his logic here. The fact that
Auschwitz had, for example,  1.14 muffles per 1,000 deaths while at
Buchenwald and Dachau the ratio was about twice as much, is indicative of
a _greater_ per (death) capita cremation capacity at Auschwitz! 

This can be illustrated by the following example:

Assume 10,000 deaths each for Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and  Dachau. Also
Assume fifty-two, six, and six muffles, respectively. Finally, assume that
incineration times were the same per muffle for all camps. This would
indicate the follwing ratios:

Auschwitz:  10,000 / 52 = ~192 deaths per muffle. 

Buchenwald: 10,000 / 6 =  ~1,666 deaths per muffle. 

Dachau:     10,000 / 6 =  ~1,666 deaths per muffle. 

Ergo, Auscwhitz could incinerate ~8.7 times as many corpses per unit time
as either Buchenwald or Dachau. Odd then, isn't it, that Auschwitz didn't
have ~8.7 times as many prisoners as Buchenwald or Dachau? 

> >Where were all these corpses supposed to come from, considering
> >Auschwitz-Birkenau never had more than a few tens-of-thousands
> >of inmates?
> 
> In a report dated April 5 1944 on security measures, Pohl reported there
> was a total of 67,000 inmates in the entire complex of which 18,000 were
> in hospital or diabled.
> In Birkenau there was 36,000 inmates, mostly female, of which 15,000 wee
> unable to work.
> (Nuremburg document No-021. NMT green series VOl 5. pp 384-385) 
> 
> The provision of crematories which could handle about 200 max in a day,
> is therefore not excessive.

Obviously, Jeffrey also fails to see the error in his assumption that the
incineration capacity of the crematorien at Birkenau was "200 max in a
day." The Auschwitz SS themselves estimated that the capacity of the
crematorien was on the order of 4,500 corspes per 24 hour period.
Additionally, the incineration capacity in Krema II alone, during the
intial testing of its muffles, can be (conservatively) extrapolated to
some 1,280 corpses per 24 hour period:


_Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945_ / Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  p. 345.

Reference: APMO, D-Mau-3a/16408. Personal-Information Card for Mieczyslaw
Morawa; D-AuI-sa/101, Confirmation of Bruck¹s Arrival
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 5  [1943]

During a test heating of the ovens in Crematorium II in Birkenau, the Capo
August Bruck, who has just been transferred from Buchenwald, explains the
construction of the ovens to the prisoners in the Special Squads and
familiarizes them with the instructions for use. The generators run from
morning until 4:00 P.M. In the course of the day, a commission arrives
made up of higher-level SS people from Berlin, members of the camp
management, function of the camp¹s Political Department, as well as
engineers and employees of the firm of J.A. Topf and Sons in Erfurt, which
built the crematorium ovens. In their presence, member of the Special
Squad stoke the 15 retorts of the five crematorium ovens with 45 corpses.
With clock in hand, the members of the commission time the cremation of
the corpses, which at 40 minutes takes an unexpectedly long time. The
Special Squad is therefore ordered to let the generators run constantly
for several days so the ovens get heated up. Participating at the trial
start-up of the crematorium ovens, which lasts from March 4 to March 6, is
the Head Capo August Bruck and Mieczyslaw Morawa (No. 5730), the Capo of
Crematorium I who was ordered to Birkenau for the test. Afterward he
returns to the main camp.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 14:28:02 PDT 1996
Article: 76212 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Furnaces for 'Bath Installations'?
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:14:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 72
Message-ID: 
References:  <544e8m$jmr@Vir.com>  <549b93$tfi@Vir.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <549b93$tfi@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> > In article <544e8m$jmr@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu 
wrote:
> > 
> > > dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The document in Prufer1.jpg and Prufer2.jpg, web page
> > > > http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/p/prufer.kurt/images/ ,
> > > > is interesting. It discusses (in item 2) the construction of
> > > > cremation furnaces at the "'bath installations for
> > > > special operations'" (sonderaktionen), in Birkenau.
> > > > 
> > > > Why do bath installations require cremation furnaces? Any
> > > > "revisionist" out there willing to explain this?
> > > 
> > >   I'll check later this letter, but don't be ridicoulous: he
> > >  state AT the bath installations, and kremas 4 and 5 were built
> > >  close to a preexisting steam bath building....
> > 
> > [snip] 
> > 
> > Nice try, Mr. Beaulieu, but no cigar. Construction of the Zentral Sauna in
> > Birkenau did not BEGIN until June 1943. Krema IV became operational on
> > March 22, 1943, and Krema V on April 4, 1943. (Pressac, _Technique_,
> > pp.65,379.)
> > 
> > By my reckoning, Mr. Beaulieu, that means that people were already being
> > murdered in Kremas IV and V before the ground was even broke for the
> > construction of the Zentral Sauna. 
> > 
> > Oops. Another denier lie bites the dust.... 
> > 
> >
> 

[Mr. Beaulieu's incomprehensible pedantry snipped]


>  It's much more simple, dunky: since there was a delay of 7-8 months
>  between the primary plans for the crematorias and the begining of
>  the construction, then the explanation is simply that such a delay
>  may have exist between the primary discussions about the location
>  of the sauna and the begining of its construction. Thus, it's much
>  more plausible that the decision to built the sauna there was already
>  taken, and that Pfurer was informed about it. This is probably the reason why
>  he said 'at the sauna installations'. 'At' is not 'closed to', but
>  since the sauna and the kanada were delimited in a square, this
>  subdivision or area was probably called 'bath installations' on
>  earlier maps. There's other possibilities, but this is the one
>  which come up to my mind actually.

All of which, Mr. Beaulieu, as "fascinating" as you would like to has us
believe, is irreleveant. The fact remains that YOU claimed that:
"...kremas 4 and 5 were built close to a preexisting steam bath
building...." They were not. The "preexisting steam bath building" was not
""preexisting" at the time Kremas IV and V began their homicidal
operations. 

Ergo, "dunky," you are full of shit. As usual. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 16:26:47 PDT 1996
Article: 76227 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jews Gloat to Henry Ford: "We Control WWI"
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:25:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <541p6h$737@is05.micron.net>  <543nnk$f0l@is05.micron.net>  <5450p8$a07@is05.micron.net> <54cj93$l9b@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <54cj93$l9b@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Kurt Stele (kurtstel@micron.net) wrote:
> : mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> : >Really? Then why did Henry Ford apologize for publishing the _Protocols_? 
> : 
> : Pederast 
> 
> 
> Uh... real compelling argument there, "Kurt".
> 
> : his apology happened after his mysterious "accident" pederast.  A moment of
> : weakness created by scumbag Jews who tried to kill him, only injuring him.
> 
> Right.  They did it with the orbitting mind control lasers, temporarily
> set to "stun."
> 
> You know you're completely batshit, don't you, "Kurt"?
> 
> Bill

Kurtzie "completely batshit" Wankermeister. ROTFL!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 21 17:44:32 PDT 1996
Article: 76236 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:03:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <326e8088.1733652@199.0.216.204>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <326e8088.1733652@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

>                 Behold the lie, tell your friends.

[re-posted Moranic(tm) garbage snipped]

For a rebuttal of Moran's post detailing his outright lies, malicious
distortions,  propensity for propaganda, rampant anti-Semitism, and his
delusional state of mind, please refer to:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/behold-the-liar

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:16 PDT 1996
Article: 76254 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bimko on the Bum
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:20:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: <547jkg$99p@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <547jkg$99p@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Here are a few comments about the testimony of Ms. Bimko sent to me by a
"browser":
> 
> She describes the building as brick.  The area now said to have been used
> for gas chambers is made of reinforced concrete, not brick.  

Really? How then, Herr Schwarzesel, do you explain the photos that show
the _walls_ of L.Keller 1 (Kr. III) and 2 (Kr. II) to be made of brick?
The brickwork is quite visible in the photos, btw.   (cf. Pressac,
_Technique_, pp.234,252.) 

> There is no evidence of shower heads or plumbing for same.  

Really? How then, Herr Schwarzesel, do you explain the photos of L.Keller
1 that show where dummy showerheads were installed? (cf. Ibid. p.353.) 

> There is a drain in the floor. 

Indeed. A drain that was _seperate_ from the rest of the Krema drainage
system. Why, Herr Schwarzesel, would the SS _seperate_ the drainage system
of L.Keller 1 if not because they were worried about HCN fumes
backflushing into the rest of the Krema? (cf. Ibid. pp.296-297.)  

> She speaks of cylinders of gas. This would mean that HCN was stored in liquid 
> form, something no one has since claimed because it presents severe technical 
> difficulties as well as being highly unsafe....  

I think not, Herr Schwarzesel. More likely, considering the reality that
we know that Zyklon B was the homicidal agent, is that Bimko, in saying
that she saw "two large metal containers containing gas" (and NOT
"cylinders of gas" as YOU mistakenly claim above), was describing two of
the four Zyklon B introduction columns which, lest we forget, were also
described by Nyiszli as looking like "square sheet-iron pipes the sides of
which contained numerous perforations, like a wire lattice." (Nyiszli,
_Auschwitz_, p.50.) Arguably, Herr Schwarzesel, Bimko's describtion of the
two Zyklon B introduction columns, which did indeed contain the (HCN) gas-
in the form of Zyklon B -is correct in intent.  Equally arguable is that
it appears that Bimko's "inspection" of L.Keller 1 was quite cursory and
what she was told was, at best, fragmentary.  

[snip]

> Please keep in mind that HCN gas is lighter than air.  Put the exits at head 
> height, and the process slows considerably since the gas will tend to rise.

Please, Herr Schwarzesel, keep in mind the combined gas laws. Your
ignorance on such matters as HCN gas "rising"  becuase it is "lighter than
air" would be less evident if you did. 

Or is  a bit of scientific literacy too much to ask of a lying scumbag
Nazi apologist such as yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:16 PDT 1996
Article: 76256 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:24:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 76
Message-ID: 
References: <53v7gr$3vc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <546rec$qe@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <546rec$qe@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

[snip]

>  According to Standard Holocaust Mythology (SHM)
> the Germans had a gas chamber in use in the summer and
> winter of 1942- the so-called "Bunker".  

Bunkers. As in bunker 1 and bunker 2. 

> This building could (SHM) be used to kill 2,800 people at a time-
> the same number as Crema II.  

Bunker 1 was estimated by Ho"ss to be able to hold 800 people and bunker 2
about 1,200 people. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.162.) 

> The "Bunker" according to the story was convenient, isolated, right next to 
> burning pits.  

It should be noted that intially the victims murdered at bunkers 1 and 2
were NOT incinerated, but simply buried in mass graves nearby. Only later,
around September 1942, on orders from Himmler, were the the dead
(~100,000) exhumed and, along with the subsequent victims, incinerated in
pits. (cf. Ibid. 163.) The Auschwitz SS, it then appears, seemed to have
been operating in the context of Aktion 1005: the erasure of the physical
evidence of Nazi genocide.  

> The question becomes, why abandon its use and go to the vast expense
(millions 
> of marks) of converting  Crema II into another gaschamber?

Because Kremas II and III had a greater combined killing capacity of
3,000+ victims per gassing. This capacity, however, exceeded the
Bauleitung's estimate of the two Kremas daily incineration capacity of
2,880. (cf. Ibid. pp.165-167.) To increase the incineration capacity to
meet the maximum output of the gas chambers, the number of corpses charged
per muffle was increased and the incineration time decreased. (cf. Ibid.
p.166.) This evidently placed, according to Pru"fer, a "colossal" strain
on the furnaces, causing breakdowns in Krema II. (cf. Kurt Pru"fer, senior
engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt, Germany, March 5, 1946.)


> This is particularly true when Exterminationist stories about reducing the 
> size of the Crema II gaschamber are considered.  

It should be noted in regards to the division of L.Keller 1 into _two_
smaller gas chambers thst such did not necessarily reduce the total
gassing capacity of the Kremas. It simply allowed the SS to "regularize"
the gassings at Kremas II and III. (cf. Ibid. p.224.) In other words, when
the the fact that the during 1943 the majority of transports to Auschwitz
contained 1,000 or less deportees (cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicles_) the
division of L.Keller 1 into two smaller gas chambers let the SS murder
people more efficiently- i.e. with less Zyklon B per gassing and at a rate
that put less strain on each Krema's furnaces. This is further supported
by the fact that the _rate_ at which victims were transported to Auschwitz
in 1943 were not nearly as frequent as they were in 1944 during Aktion
Ho"ss, thus enabling Kremas II and III to be the primary homicidal
installations used to gas and incinerate the victims. (cf. Gutman,
_Anatomy_, p.236.)  This calculus did not change until Aktion Ho"ss in
May-July of 1944, in which the use of Krema V, bunker 2, and the
incineration pits were required to help handle the annihilation of some
394,000 Hungarian Jews. (cf. Ibid. p.238.) 

> Any answers out there from Exterminationists?

Any intelligent and honest "questions" out there from deniers? No? Thought not.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:17 PDT 1996
Article: 76259 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: England to Enforce the Holocaust Lie
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:28:22 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <3268f562.3935211@199.0.216.204> <32611493.3930@rio.com> <326eb90b.14152030@199.0.216.204> <3266E2F7.41C6@itsa.ucsf.edu>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:76259 alt.conspiracy:102027

In article <3266E2F7.41C6@itsa.ucsf.edu>, Brian Harmon
 wrote:

> tom moran wrote:
> [..]
> > Your an idiot Chuck. 
> 
>  Your grammar and thinking skills amaze me to this
>  day, Mr. Moran.  tell me, how do you manage to dress
>  yourself without help?

Lot's of velcro? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:18 PDT 1996
Article: 76260 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Queen of Mean Lies-Ada Bimko, or is it Bimbo?
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:29:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References: <32668da0.22944101@news.zilker.net> <547tg6$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <547tg6$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mike@aimetering.com (Mike Curtis) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  >>   karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power) writes:
> >  >>  rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >>  
> >  >>  >  No, I do not
> >  >>  >"deny" all the events listed by Czech.
> >  >>  
> >  >>  Not the issue. The question is whether you accept Danuta Czech's
> >  >>  chronicle (with which I am indeed unfamiliar, nor have I ever claimed
> >  >>  to have all the literature of the Holocaust at my fingertips) as
> >  >>  basically accurate and trustworthy.
> >  >>  
> >  >>  Do you accept Czech's chronicle as basically accurate and trustworthy?
> >  >>  
> >  >>  If not, who cares whether or not it confirms the assertions of Ada
> >  >>  Bimko?
> >  >>  
> >  >>  You seem to have a serious problem judging your sources.
> >  >>  
> >  >>>>>
> >  >You seem to have a serious problem of voicing
> >  >an opinion without doing any research.
> >  
> >  I don't have a problem with the research, Mr. Blackmore.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Neither do I.

Indeed! As Herr Schwarzesel does NO research, he has no "problems!" 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:19 PDT 1996
Article: 76261 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:32:45 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <546aku$rs0@news.enter.net> <547rpf$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <547rpf$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >  >   Smun@chiba.org (I ain't got no home) writes:
> >  
> >  >  >  >  shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
> >  >  >  >  hundreds were shot per day.
> >    
> >  >  >         If you wish to be successful in this technique you need
to let something
> >  >  >  like this sit for a month and then post it so it is hard to
find what you
> >  >  >  left out.  
> >  
> >  >  I'm not worried about it.  Your Holocaust is
> >  >  on the way out soon anyway.
> >  
> >       Suckered again, little boy.
> >  
> >       I hope you alternate feet.  It would be sad to think of that many 
> >  bulletholes in only one of them.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

As opposed to being a lying scumbag Nazi apologist like Herr Schwarzesel? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:19 PDT 1996
Article: 76262 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Belsen: The Suppressed Story
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:31:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <32646d20.6578092@news.awinc.com> <547rni$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <547rni$brf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rbalckmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  On Sun, 13 Oct 1996 03:17:11 -0800, mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
> >  wrote:
> >  
> >  
> >  >Perhaps Herr Schwarzesel should try clicking his ruby shoes together while
> >  >saying "There's no place like home!" Who knows, maybe he'll end up in
> >  >Hitler's bunker.... 
> >  
> >  Where he'd doubtless be so tickled he'd pee himself.
> >  
> >>>>
> No, I'd aim in your direction.

Considering Herr Schwarzesel "aim",  like Mr. Lewis said: he'd pee himself! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 07:41:20 PDT 1996
Article: 76284 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Declaration Of Deficiency
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 19:50:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 58
Message-ID: 
References: <32758246.2179918@199.0.216.204>  <326d23a5.9588257@199.0.216.204>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <326d23a5.9588257@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> >In article <32758246.2179918@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>                 
> >>         They who refuse to debate, oppose debate or stifle debate,
> >> declare they don't have the will, the substance or the guts to meet
> >> the challenge. It is a sign of cowardice.
> >
> >
> >Mr Moran:
> > 
> >As soon as you have something intelligent to say, I'll be more than happy
> >to debate with you.
> > 
> >But since all that comes from you is hate-filled, stereotypical racism,
> >there's nothing WORTH debating.
> > 
> >Sara
> 
> 
> Who said anything about debating with you? I don't care what you
> say, and I'm not concerned with convincing you of anything. You are
> insignificant. 

So sayeth Mr. Insignificant himself! LOL!

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 09:37:19 PDT 1996
Article: 76341 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 06:07:27 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <549cgh$l52@news.enter.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article <549cgh$l52@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
> >>  On 17 Oct 1996 00:43:22 GMT, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
> >
> >       And the fact that there are no more Jews in Poland.
> >
> This does not prove that they were murdered by the Germans. Every year 
> dozens of people disappear without a trace in Denmark. That some 
> individuals dissappear is not the same as they have been murdered.

Indeed, Mr. Kreiberg. However, your analogy falls woefully short of the
mark when one simply considers it is not twelve people, but twelve MILLION
people that "disappeared" due to Nazi mass murder.

> The truth is that you are a slanderer who thinks that all Gentiles are more 
> or less the same. Nazism was krautstuff only.

Mr. Kreiberg, it is not slander to state the self-evident: You are a
holocaust denier, Nazi apologist, and a all around detestable person.
Considering your support for Nazi ideology and neo-Nazis, as well as your
racist beliefs, labeling you a Nazi is quite apropo. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 11:17:04 PDT 1996
Article: 76367 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!lantana.singnet.com.sg!violet.singnet.com.sg!newsvr.cyberway.com.sg!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Apology to Nizkor & Jamie M.
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 00:01:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <54blcp$2ssq$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54blcp$2ssq$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54femd$ju7@juliana.sprynet.com> <54hb86$pe8$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54hb86$pe8$4@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <54femd$ju7@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com21 Oct 1996
> 09:10:37 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> 
> :>>  Once again Mr. Beaulieu, you have posted something which has
nothing at all to
> :>>  do with the thread of this discussion.  Do you read your posts
before you send
> :>>  them?
> 
> :>I don't know if he reads them, but you ought to...Allied
> :>torture---a matter of policy.
> 
> Nazi extermination of the Jews---a matter of policy.

A self-admitted and well docmented matter of Nazi policy, lest we forget!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 14:22:07 PDT 1996
Article: 76374 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Behold the lie
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:02:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 64
Message-ID: 
References: <54eidc$9fg@juliana.sprynet.com>  <326fcf6a.959100@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <326fcf6a.959100@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> >rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >
> ># New figures of the dead at Auschwitz, taken from archives
> ># in Moscow, indicate 70,000 deaths, 46,000 of them Jews.
> >
> >How odd, especially since the Frank-Gricksch report, written
> >in mid-1943, states that 500,000 Jews were already killed
> >in the camp.
> >
> >It was explained to you dozens of times that not only are
> >these death lists partial, they only cover those who died
> >after being admitted into the camp and given a serial
> >number. Those who were selected as "unfit for work", and
> >murdered upon arrival, were not given a serial number
> >and their names were not written down; it would have
> >been a complete waste of time to write down the name
> >of someone who was going to be dead in an hour or so,
> >and to tattoo him/her with a serial number.
> >
> >Is it *so* difficult to understand?
> >
> >
> >-Danny Keren.
> 
>         Post the report so Moran can tear into it.


You mean gum it, O' Toothless One! Go for it:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/gricksch.rpt


The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
of this, please refer to:

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 14:22:08 PDT 1996
Article: 76375 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Declaration Of Deficiency
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:09:33 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References: <32758246.2179918@199.0.216.204>  <326d23a5.9588257@199.0.216.204>  <3270d00a.1118932@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3270d00a.1118932@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

> >The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
> >blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and Holocaust denial.
> >The Moran (tm) generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of
> >intellectual and factual integrity that there seems to be no point in
> >taking the time to read and respond.  For detailed and documented evidence
> >of this, please refer to:
> >
> >http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom
> >
> >But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
> >beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
> >Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
> >evidence of this please see:
> >
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq
> >
> >Mark
> 
> This is trouble. He has posted a list of URLs. Moran is done for.
> How can he argue against a URL? Their too awesome. 
                                  ^^^^^

"They're too awesome." 

But you are quite right, Moran. You are indeed "done for" as YOU _can't_
argue against the (above) URLs. (You probably can't even _find_ them!)
They _are_ too "awesome" in that you, after being handed plenty of "rope,"
promptly hung yourself with your own words.  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 22 19:05:06 PDT 1996
Article: 76408 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Rblackmore Lies for the nth time... Re: Let's Not Be Beastly to the Germans
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:38:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <54ck7r$l9b@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <54flmn$ju7@juliana.sprynet.com> <326ddec6.15390962@news.zilker.net> <54j5fb$qkr@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54j5fb$qkr@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Mike Curtis (mike@aimetering.com) wrote:

[snip]

> : Blackmore has definately been trapped in the corner where most all
> : deniers end up. Note the documentation offered in Mr. Blackmore's
> : retort. Impressive isn't it?
> 
> Yup.  It's absolutely airtight, in my opinion.
> 
> "That's my opinion and my believe until he proves otherwise."
> 
> You're a sad case, Mr. Belling.

Yup. He's such a baaaaad Naaaaaazi.... };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 23 07:44:37 PDT 1996
Article: 76488 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:28:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References:  <549cgh$l52@news.enter.net>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi139.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >
> >Mr. Kreiberg, it is not slander to state the self-evident: You are a
> >holocaust denier, Nazi apologist, and a all around detestable person.
> >Considering your support for Nazi ideology and neo-Nazis, as well as your
> >racist beliefs, labeling you a Nazi is quite apropo. 
> >
> I have never supported the nazi ideology. 

Yet you promulgate it.

>I have never advocated  dictatorship. 

Yet you enthusiastically endorse the same infringements of human rights.

> You certainly do not have to be a nazi just because 
> you are a racialist. 

Yet you are both a Nazi and a racist.

> Yes I refuse to believe in the holocaust and
> continue to do so as long as there are "laws" in France and Germany
> that tries to supress freedom of speech and scientific research.

Obviously, Mr. Kreiberg your fantatic quasi-religious Nazi dogmatism
blinds you to the meaning of your words. You just stated, in essense, that
_because_ of your fantatical and quasi-religious Nazi beliefs, you deny
reality. 

Not only are you a Nazi, Mr. Kreiberg, you are delusional loon who is
obviously well-progressed around the bend. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 24 14:03:39 PDT 1996
Article: 76750 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:51:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References:  <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com> <54f9lq$l2c@is05.micron.net> <326f529d.1450762@news.inetport.com> <54kigp$j5o@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54kigp$j5o@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> mcurtis@inetport.com (Mike Curtis) wrote:
> 
> >kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) wrote:
> >>
> >>The SS trying and then executing their own soldiers for mistreating Jews? 
> 
> >They were executed for stealing from the Reich, Kurt. Drink some
> >coffee and wake up!
> 
> Nope!  There existed certain SS officers who were executed SOLEY on the basis 
> of mistreating Jewish inmates alone.  Hardly indicative of an army seeking to 
> "exterminate" Jews.  Quite indicative of the mendacity of the Holy Tale.

And whom, exactly, Herr Wankermeister, were these "certain SS officers?"

Don't be shy, Herr Wankermeister, do tell us. Make sure you also include
your sources. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 09:01:41 PDT 1996
Article: 76761 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!netcom.net.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why So Many Crematoriums?
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:04:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 155
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <845510229snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>    
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine
>  writes
> >In article , Jeffrey
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Butz in a study of the cremation capacity showed that actually Auschwitz
> >> complex had a lower ratio of muffles/retorts than Buchenwald and Dachau.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> per thousand deaths
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Year   Auschwitz Buchenwald Dachau
> >> retorts   52          6        6
> >> 
> >> 1942    1.14       2.07     2.43     
> >> 1943    1.41       1.71     5.45
> >> 
> >> Butz [ibid p378]
> >
> >
> >Obviously, Jeffrey fails to see the error in his logic here. The fact that
> >Auschwitz had, for example,  1.14 muffles per 1,000 deaths while at
> >Buchenwald and Dachau the ratio was about twice as much, is indicative of
> >a _greater_ per (death) capita cremation capacity at Auschwitz! 
> 
> No, it isn't.

Such a stunning "rebuttal": Because Jeffrey Says So!  

Needless to say, I'm not very impressed. 

[snip]

> >This can be illustrated by the following example:
> >
> >Assume 10,000 deaths each for Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and  Dachau. Also
> >Assume fifty-two, six, and six muffles, respectively. Finally, assume that
> >incineration times were the same per muffle for all camps. This would
> >indicate the follwing ratios:
> >
> >Auschwitz:  10,000 / 52 = ~192 deaths per muffle. 
> >
> >Buchenwald: 10,000 / 6 =  ~1,666 deaths per muffle. 
> >
> >Dachau:     10,000 / 6 =  ~1,666 deaths per muffle. 
> >
> >Ergo, Auscwhitz could incinerate ~8.7 times as many corpses per unit time
> >as either Buchenwald or Dachau. Odd then, isn't it, that Auschwitz didn't
> >have ~8.7 times as many prisoners as Buchenwald or Dachau? 
> 
> No it isn't.

Such a stunning "rebuttal": Because Jeffrey Says So!  

Needless to say, I'm not very impressed. 

[snip]

> It is well known that Auschwitz II (Birkenau) was going to be expanded,
> a extension called "Mexico".... 

It is also equally well-known that such plans for exapnsion were abandoned
part-way through construction. Not to mention that the only time prisoners
were "housed" in "Mexico" was during Aktion Ho"ss when were several
thousands of _unregistered_ Jewish women were kept there awaiting their
turn in the gas chambers. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.395.) 
 
>...Mr Van Alstine ignores this completely. An oversight on his part, no doubt.

Hardly. Jeffrey seem to be unaware that the construction of "Mexico" (Camp
BIII) was was abandoned while the incineration capacity at Birkenau was
NOT subsequently reduced. Why, if the construction of Mexico was
abandoned, thus indicating that the Nazis did NOT intend to house far more
prisoners at Birkenau, did the Auschwitz SS not reduce the incineration
capacity as well? 

Could it be, perhaps, that the massive incineration capacity of the Kremas
were not, at that point, intended to deal with the deaths from "natural
causes?" That because the Nazis did NOT reduce the enourmous incineration
capacity of Birkenau when logically it was not needed (as obviously
indicated by the halting of BIII's construction) because Birkenau's
expected population would not reach its origional projections, that there
was some other need- a _homicidal_ need -for this incineration capacity? 

Of course it could. In fact, considering the overwhelming evidence, it
most certainly does indicate that the Nazis intended to use the massive
incineration capacity at Birkenau for homicidal purposes. This point is
only further driven home by the dearth of per capita _morgue_ capacity at
Birkenau, which is _also_ indicative of the homicidal intent of the
crematorien there! (cf. Ibid. p.144-145.) 

[snip]

> >> The provision of crematories which could handle about 200 max in a day,
> >> is therefore not excessive.
> >
> >Obviously, Jeffrey also fails to see the error in his assumption that the
> >incineration capacity of the crematorien at Birkenau was "200 max in a
> >day." 
> 
> Not my assumption at all. But testimony under OATH of Ivan Lagace, a
> witness, declared of "expert status"  at the Zundel trial, who declared
> it to be 184 a day. I just rounded up the number a little.

And it has been pointed out numerous times to Jeffrey that Lagace, at
best,  erroneously based his "estimate" on civilian cremation practices
using civilian creamation furnaces. The reality of the sutuation at
Birkenau, circa 1941-44, was that no such _civilian_ cremation practices
or furnaces were used.

That Legace's "estimate" is, at best, in obvious error becomes quite
apparent when one simply takes into account the _actual_ cremation
capacity of the furnaces in Krema II, as reported during their trial run,
of 45 corpses in 40 minutes. (Which, btw, was considered as taking an
unexpectedly long time.) This would have yielded a daily incineration
capacity of 1,280 corpses. (cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.345.)

Yet Jefferey keeps repeating his drivel regarding Legace. 

[snip]

> >The Auschwitz SS themselves estimated that the capacity of the
> >crematorien was on the order of 4,500 corspes per 24 hour period.
> 
> Totally impossible, just rubbish. Give me a reference?
> 
> [Please Not the "Jahring" letter, not that forgery, we exhausted that by
> now.] 

Contrary to Jeffrey's false and insipid protestations above, the estimate
given by Ja"hrling in a letter dated June 28, 1943, has by no means been
proven to be a forgery. (Unsubstantiated cries of "forgery" when cornered
by the evidence are a favorite, if futile, tactic of deniers. Jeffrey is
no exception.) That estimate, for Kremas II-V, was 4,756 corpses per
24-hour period. (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.247.) This, of course, did
not include the capacity of the incineration pits that were used in Aktion
Ho"ss. When the incineration pits are included the incineration capacity
at Birkenau was approximatley 8,000 corpses per 24-hour period. (cf.
Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.166.) 

[The remainder of Jeffrey's mindless drivel and Nazi cheerleading snipped.]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 09:01:41 PDT 1996
Article: 76775 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Deniers: Do You Believe the Plague?
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:31:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References:  <845576424snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>   <845921872snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <846090097snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <846090097snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
> 
> > Uh huh. And do you also feel, Al, that the likes of Cole, Rassiner,
> > Faurisson, Weber, Zundel, et. al. also have an agenda, part of which
> > besides Nazi apologia and anti-Semitic propaganda, is to scam a few bucks
> > from their historically illiterate, bigoted, and racist camp followers? 
> 
> Everybody has an agenda. I certainly hope no one ever accuses me of making 
> money out of Holocaust Revisionism. 

Wouldn't be for the lack of trying, now would it, Al? Or do you simply
_give_ away your "pamphlets" now? 

> By the way, isn't the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation tax exempt, what about the 
> ADL, the Wiesenthal Center and all the other Holocaust Affirmers? Sauce for 
> the goose?

Can you say "non-profit," Al?

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 09:01:42 PDT 1996
Article: 76818 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 20:41:45 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
References: <541mo8$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <5458di$pra@juliana.sprynet.com><541mo8$1bim@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <5458di$pra@juliana.sprynet.com> <32706be1.248157598@news.zilker.net> <54p9oh$2202$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <54p9oh$2202$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <32706be1.248157598@news.zilker.net> - mike@aimetering.com (Mike
> Curtis) writes:
> :>
> :>rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> :>
> :>>>   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> :>>>  In message <53vpqs$bau@juliana.sprynet.com> -
rblackmore@juno.com15 Oct 1996
> :>>>
> :>>
> :>>>  :>>  
> :>>>  :>>  :>It is not a lie.  The monuments (plural) stated that 
> :>>>  :>>  :>4 million human beings perished at Auschwitz. 
> :>>
> :>>>  :>>  
> :>>>  :>> 
> :>>.  And yet, you won't even admit your error, let alone apologize for your
> :>>>  :>>  blatant misstatement of the truth.
> :>>
> :>>No, Gordon, I won't apologize for this, any more than you are
> :>>willing to apologize for the slander of repeating that 6 million
> :>>Jews were murdered by the Germans.
> :>
> :>Eichmann said a simular thing during his interrogation. I don't think
> :>that Mr. McFee has anything at all to be apologitic for.
> 
> The supreme irony in this is that Eichmann turns out to be less of a denier
> than Mr. "Blackmore".

Indeed! However, does this mean that Herr Schwarzesel _won't_ be offering
his usual lying scumbag Nazi apologia in defense of Eichmann's part in the
Holocaust? After all, Eichmann, like Ho"ss, openly _admitted_ that the
Nazis murdered millions of Jews. 

Since we know all about Herr Schwarzesel's pathological obsession, for
example,  in asserting (without evidence) that Ho"ss's testimonies and
memoirs were coerced and/or falsified, one might wonder how long it will
be until Herr Schwarzesel starts ranting about how  Eichmann's was
"tortured" and "coerced" during his interrogation and testimony as
well.... 

It's only a matter of time. Really.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 09:01:43 PDT 1996
Article: 76855 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi139.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Deniers: Do You Believe the Plague?
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:37:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References:  <845576424snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>   <845921872snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <845921872snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

[snip]

> In my experience, the REAL Jews don't get too hot under the collar about 
> Revisionists; the people who do are political gerrymanderers; they have an
> agenda, and shoving the 6 million down own throats helps them promote it.

Uh huh. And do you also feel, Al, that the likes of Cole, Rassiner,
Faurisson, Weber, Zundel, et. al. also have an agenda, part of which
besides Nazi apologia and anti-Semitic propaganda, is to scam a few bucks
>from  their historically illiterate, bigoted, and racist camp followers? 

Or doesn't your "experience" encompass the shinnanigans of these charlatans? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 09:01:44 PDT 1996
Article: 76893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-6.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 11:00:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References:  <54eopf$d8c@juliana.sprynet.com> <54f9lq$l2c@is05.micron.net> <326f529d.1450762@news.inetport.com> <54kigp$j5o@is05.micron.net> <326f6224.180118266@news.zilker.net> <54n1sr$s86@is05.micron.net>
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In article <54n1sr$s86@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

[snip]

> At Nuremberg, SS Justice Konrad Morgen testified that SS tribunals convicted 
> some 200 persons -- among them FIVE camp commandants -- of such maltreating 
> inmates. 

And were these maltreated inmates Jewish, Herr Wankermeister?

> Two camp commandants were before the firing squad.  IMT, vol. XX, p. 
> 533.  See also MT, vol XLII, p. 556 (Morgen affidavit).  

And were these, as yet unnamed, "two camp commandants" actually executed
for maltreating Jewish inmates, Herr Wankermeister? 


> Also, Himmler ordered camp commandants and physicians to give
> top priority to the preservation of inmates' health and fitness for work.  

And your source for this is, Herr Wankermeister? Your evidence that any
such "order" by Himmler was actually carried out? 

[Herr Wankermeister's Nazi cheerleading snipped] 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Oct 25 19:05:17 PDT 1996
Article: 77064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:02:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 209
Message-ID: 
References: <3270cdff.2473539@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <54qptd$9a7@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54qptd$9a7@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

>    jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
>   In <54q6t3$rmj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
>   
>    Rascher continued for some time afterwards reporting the results of
>     experiments involved putting his subjects in a depressurized chamber
>    to see when they would die, and, immersing his subjects in
>    near-freezing water to see when they would die.
> 
> I am not sure whether the details are correct, but these experiments were
> conducted with the purpose in mind of saving human lives.  The subjects
> were either criminals condemned to death or volunteers, I believe.

Ah, Herr Schwarzesel, finds yet another "pillar" of the Nazi community to
idolize and defend with his lying scumbag Nazi apologia! How truly
pathetic. 

In regards to Herr Schwarzesel's lame and disgusting Nazi apologia about
Nazi medical experiments being conducted "with the purpose in mind of
saving human lives," I would offer the following:

"Though experiments on human beings are an accepted and recognized practic
ein medical research, they are generally subject to severe restrictions.
They must not be intended for 'pure' research, that is, for research that
does not have the immediate purpose purpose of developing of a new
medicine or a new kind of treatment; they must not have the sole purpose
of of advancing the researcher's career; human beings may be involved only
in those phases of an experiment for which they are absolutely essential;
and high-risk medicines and experimental medical treatments may be tried
out only when no cure exists and where illness is already fatal. Under no
circumstances may a person of good health be deliberately infected with a
dangerous disease in order to try out a new medicine or a new form of
treatment. While low-risk experimental medicines and forms of treatment
may be tried out on persons who are in good helth, this may be done on a
voluntary basis only, and the volunteer must be fully informed of all
possible risks involved in the experiment. While accidents can occur in
medical experiments on human beings, impairing the health of the subject
or even causing his death (as happens in legitimate medical practice),
under no circumstances must the induction of a disease or the death of the
human being involved be a deliberate, essential element of the experiment.

"In Nazi Germany, medical experiments on human beings were carried out in
which these fundemental rules were disregarded. It is the kind of cruel
and murderous experiment, carried out by qualified ans experianced
doctors, in cold blood and in the name of science, that is here under
consideration." (Gutman, _Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.957.) 

Now, in light of the above, consider the following letters regarding
Rascher's use of prisoners at Dachau (which, lest we forget, Herr
Schwarzesel DEFENDS) for the purpose of "medical experiments": 


Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 297 (From: Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Dr. Rascher,

Shortly before flying to Oslo, the Reichsfu"hrer SS gave mem your letter
of May 15, 1941, for partial reply. I can inform you that prisoners will
of course be gladly made available for the high altitude experiments.

Dr. Sigmund Rascher                                             Munich,
                                          Trogerstr. 56, 16 April. 1942

Most honourable Reichsfu"hrer,

Allow me to express my gratitude for your letter dated April 13, I was
very pleased to learn of your great interest in these experiments and
their results. I thank you for the suggestions which you made in your
letter. 

The experiment mentioned in the report dated 4.4. has been repeated four
times - always with the same results. The last subject Wagner, was revived
through increased pressure after his respiration had stopped. Since the
subject Wagner had been selected for a terminal experiment, a repitition
of which did not promise any new results, and as your letter had not
reached me, I subsequently initiated a new experiment which the subject
did not survive.

Now I have one other request: May I photograph the individual organs which
have been prepared in the COncentration Camp Pathology Department, in
order to have a record of the unusual formations of the multiople air
embolisms. My wife has already written to SS-Sturmbannfu"hrer Dr. Brandt
with regard to this matter.

I remain your obediant servant,

                                            Heil Hitler!
                                            Your grateful servant
                                            S. Rascher.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 298 (From: National Archives, Washington)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Rascher to Camp Commandant Weiß, Dachau
                                                  Oct 10, 1942

The Russian prisoner of war Chonitsch ... born May 24, 1920, was
transferred to me on Sep 28, for experimental purposes. Chonitsch is a
Russian who was to be executed. As the RF SS had ordered me to use persons
sentenced to death for dangerous experiments, I wanted to conduct an
experiment on this Russian which I was absolutely sure he would not
survive. I reported at the time "You can be assured that the Russian will
certainly not survive the experiment and will be dead by the given date."
Contrary to all expectations the Russian in question survived 3
experiments which would have been fatal for any other person. In
accordance with the RF SS' order that all test subjects who are sentanced
to death but survive a dangerous experiment should be pardoned, I beg you
to take the appropriate steps. I regret that the wrong assumption on our
part has given rise to extra corrospondance work.

                     With many thanks and Heil Hitler!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 299 (From: Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichssicherheitshauptamt
Teleprinter's Office

                                                         Oct, 20, 1942
Urgent
RF SS Mu"nchen Blitz Nr. 2020 20.10.42.1705
To: SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer Dr. Brandt
Field Command Post (Feldkommandostelle) Hegewald

Highly esteemed Obersturmbannfu"hrer -

Will you please clarify the following case with the Reichsfu"hrer SS as
soon as possible.

In the Reichsfu"hrer SS' letter of April 18, 1942 it is ordered in § 3
that if prisoners in Dachau condemmed to death live through experiments
which have endangered their lives, they should be pardoned. As up to now
for these experiments only Poles and Russians were available, some of whom
had been condemned to death, I am not certain whether the above mentioned
§ 3 is applicapble to them or not and whether these experiments may not be
pardoned to life-long concentration camp imprisonment. 

Request reply by teleprint via Adjutancy RF-SS Munich

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 300 (From: Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Teleprint

To
SS-Obersturmfu"hrer Schnitzler
Mu"nchen

Please inform SS-Untersturmfu"htrer Dr. Rascher with regard to his
teleprint inquiry that the intruction given some time ago by the
RTeichsfu"hrer SS concerning the pardoning of experimental subjects does
not apply to Poles and Russians.

                             signed: Brandt
                             SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer

Oct 21, 1942
Bra./Dr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Clearly, the mention (above) that "only Poles and Russians" were (up until
October 1942 at least) used in Rascher's medical experiments discredits
Herr Schwarzesel's lame and disgusting Nazi apologia that implied that the
subjects were common criminals sentanced to death for crimes committed.
Especially, for example, in regards to Chonitsch who was a Russian POW and
supposedly under the protection of the Geneva Conventions! That Chonitsch
was "sentenced" to be executed was likely in regards to the Commissar
Order than any criminality on his part! Further evidence of Herr
Schwarzesel's lame and disgusting Nazi apologia in regard to prisoners
being "volunteers" is belied by the fact that even if they _did_ survive
an _intentionally_ fatal experiment, they would _not_ have been pardoned
and repreived from death. Evidently, Poles and Russian, being
"untermensch" in Nazi racial "theory," did not warrant such treatment as a
common "Aryan" criminal would if so "volunteered." (Not that there is any
clear evidence that any "Aryan" criminals were ever involved in Rascher's
experiments.) 

[The rest of Herr Schwarzesel's lame and disgusting Nazi apologia snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:44 PDT 1996
Article: 77066 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 10 prisoners condemned to starve to death in Block 11
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:10:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p. 13. (Ref: APMO, D-AuI-3/1, Bunker Register,
pp.9-11; Francisek Brol, Gerard Wloch, Jan Pilecki, "Das Bunkerbuch des
Blocks 11 im Nazi-Kontzentrationslager Auschwitz" (The Bunker Register of
Block ii in the Nazi Concentration Camp Auschwitz), HvA, no.1, 1959, p.
33; Kowalski, Number 4410, p. 179.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 23 [1941]

For the first time, with cooperation of the Camp Commander Karl Fritzsch
and a few SS Men, Commandant Ho"ss chooses 10 prisoners from Block 2 as
hostages and condemns them to starve to death in retaliation for the
escape of a prisoner. The selected prisoners include Polish politocal
prisones Marian Batko (No. 11795) from Krako'w, a physics teacher at the
humanistic Odrawwaz Gynnasium in Ko"nigshu"tte (Chrozo'w), who voluntarily
stepped out of the line during selection in place of another, very young
inmate;* Wincenty Rejowski (No. 3301); Antoni Sufin Suliga (No. 7883);
Stefan Otulak (No. 7904); Tadeusz Kustra (No. 12906); Jan Schefler (No.
11860);  Franciszek Bobla (No. 12889); and Jo'zef Nocko (No. 12929). They
are locked up together in a cell in the cellar of Block 11 and recieve
nothing to eat or drink. The dark cell is opened a few days later and the
bodies of the deceased prisoners are taken out. On April 27, Marian Batko
is the first to die; the rest die by May 26, 1941.

*Prioner Mieczyslaw Pronobis (No. 9313), born on October 17, 1924,
reported this act after the war to his family and friends and stated that
he was selected. Paralyzed with fear, he didn't leave the line of
prisoners, and in his place an old man, who was very debilitated,
allegedly a high-school teacher, whose name he did not know, came forward.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:45 PDT 1996
Article: 77067 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 168 prisoners shot in the courtyard of Block 11
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:10:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p. 171. (Ref: APMO, Ho"ss Trial, vol. 4, p. 80,
Account of Former Prisoner Tadeusz Wasowicz; D-Aul-3/1/3, Occupancy
Register, pp. 410-416; Kret,* "Penal Company," p.104. [168 executed]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May 27 [1942]

168 prisoners are shot at the execution wall in the courtyard of Block 11.
They belong to the group of painters, artists, and actors who were
arrested on April 16, 1942, in the Artists' Cafe in Krakow and sent to
Auschwitz on April 24 and 25. In the camp, they were given Nos.
32489-32586 and 33091-33190. The prisoners are taken to the courtyard four
at a time and shot. The Block Senior utters the following sentance: "For
the murder of the head of the Luftwaffe in Krakow, you are condemned to
death." Then they are killed with individual shots from a smal-caliber
weapon. Present at the execution are the Director of the Political
Department, Maximillian Grabner, Protective Custody Commander Hans
Aumeier, and the Labor Deployment Director, Heinrich Schwarz.


* Kret, who is housed at the time on the courtyard side of the bunker,
where the execution takes place, hears the words of the Block Senior, the
conversation of the SS officers, and with a fellow sufferer, counts the
number of shots fired. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:46 PDT 1996
Article: 77068 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Administrative positions in the Auschwitz C.C.
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:10:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); pp. 15-16. (Ref: APMO, D-RF-3, RSHA/117/2, p.166,
RSHA General Orders)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 1 [1940]

The following SS men have administrative positions in the Auschwitz C.C.:

1. Camp Commandant: Rudolf Ho"ss, SS captain, SS No. 193616, detailed from
Sachenhausen C.C.

2. Adjutant: Josef Kramer, SS first lieutenant, SS No. 32217, transferred
>from  Mauthausen C.C.

3. First Camp Commander: Karl Fritsch, SS first lieutenant, SS No. 7287,
transferred from Dachau C.C.

4. Second Camp Commander: Franz Xazer Maier, SS second lieutenant, SS No.
69600, transferred from the SS Death's Head Division.

5. Director of Administration: Max Meyer, SS first lieutenant, SS No.
289455, detailed from the Concentration Camps Inspectorate.

6. Bursar: Herbert Minkos, SS technical sergeant, SS No. 293112,
transferred from Buchenwald C.C.

7. Senior Food Clerk: Willi Rieck, SS second lieutenant, SS No. 63900,
transferred from Dachau C.C.

8. Housing administration: Otto Reincke, SS technical sergeant, SS No.
156653, transferred from Flossenbu"rg C.C.

9. Camp Doctor: Max Popiersch, SS captain, SS No. 176467

10. Camp Doctor: Robert Neumann, SS first lieutenant, SS No. 203348

11. Director of the Political Department (camp Gestapo): Maximilian
Grabner, SS second lieutenant, appointed to the post by the Kattowitz
Gestapo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:47 PDT 1996
Article: 77069 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: total prisoner population
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:11:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5


The total prisoner population of Auschwitz I, II, and III on December 31, 1943, 
was 85,298 prisoners. There were 55,785 men, 11,433 who were sick and
couldn't work; and 29,515 women, 8,266 who were also sick and couldn't
work. During December 8,931 women died in the women's camp in Auschwitz
II. Of these 8,931 women, 4,247 were killed with gas after selections in
the camp and prisoner's infirmery. In addition, 5,748 men also died in
Auschwitz I, II, and III. [1]

These numbers were based on the monthly labor deployment lists and
accounted for the number of prisoners admitted during December as well as
the 333 prisoners who were transferred or escaped. 

This means that for the month of December 14,679 _registered_ prisoners
died. That would be 17% of the population of the Auschwitz camps. (Even if
the 4,247 women who were gassed because they were too sick is excluded
this still amounts to 12% of the population.) In addition, 19,699
prisoners (23%) were too sick to work, which says a lot when being too
sick to work was often a death penalty.


Mark


1. "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p.557. (Ref: APMO, D-AuI-3a/370/7/438/448, 
Monthly Labor Deployment List; APMO, Mat.RO, vol. VII, p.486.)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:48 PDT 1996
Article: 77070 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Ho"ss on gassing Russian POWs
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:11:44 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

"Before the mass destruction of the Jews began, all the Russian politruks
[Communist Party members] and political commissars were killed in almost
every camp during 1941 and 1942. According to the secret order given by
Hitler, the Einsatzgruppe [special troops of the SS] searched for and
picked up all the Russian politruks and commissars from all the POW camps.
They transferred all they found to the nearest concentration camp for
liquidation. The reason for this action was given as follows: the Russians
were murdering any German soldier who was a member of the Nazi Party,
especially SS members. Also, the political section of the Red Army had
standing orders to cause unrest in every way in any POW camp or places
where POWs worked. If they were caught or imprisoned, they were instructed
to perform acts of sabotage. This is why these political officials of the
Red Army were sent to Auschwitz for liquidation. The first small
transports were shot by firing squads of SS soldiers.

"While I was away on an official trip, my second in command, Camp
Commander Fritzsch, experimented with gas for these killings. He used a
gas called Cyclon B, prussic acid, which was often used as an insecticide
in the camp to exterminate lice and vermin. There was always a supply on
hand. When I returned Fritzsch reported to me about how he had used the
gas. We used it again to kill the next transport.

"The gassing was carried out in the basement of Block 11. I viewed the
killings wearing a gas mask for protection. Death occurred in the
crammed-full cells immediately after the gas was thrown in. Only a brief
choking outcry and it was all over. This first gassing of people did not
really sink into my mind. Perhaps I was much too impressed by the whole
procedure.

"I remember well and was much more impressed by the gassing of nine
hundred Russians which occurred soon afterwards in the old crematory
because the use of Block 11 caused too many problems. While the unloading
took place, several holes were simply punched from above through the earth
and concrete ceiling of the mortuary. The Russians had to undress in the
antechamber, then everybody calmly walked into the mortuary because they
were told they would be deloused in there. The entire transport fit
exactly in the room. The doors were closed and the gas poured in through
the openings in the roof. How long the process lasted I don't know, but
for quite some time sounds could be heard. As the gas was thrown in some
of them yelled 'Gas!' and a tremendous screaming and shoving started
toward both doors, but the doors were able to withstand all the force. It
was not until several hours later that the doors were opened and the room
aired out. There for the first time I saw gassed bodies in mass. Even
though I imagined death by gas to be much worse, I was still overcome by a
sick feeling of horror. I always imagined death by gas a terrible choking
suffocation, but the bodies showed no signs of convulsions. The doctors
explained to me that the prussic acid paralyzes the lungs.  The effect is
so sudden and so powerful that symptoms of suffocation never appear as in
cases of death by coal gas or by lack of oxygen.

"At the time I really didn't waste any thoughts about the killing of the
Russian POWs. It was ordered; I had to carry it out. But I must admit
openly that the gassings had a calming effect on me, since in the near
future the mass annihilation of the Jews was to begin. Up to this point it
was not clear to me, nor Eichmann, how the killing of the expected masses
was to be done. Perhaps by gas? But how, and what kind of gas? Now we had
discovered the gas and the procedure. I was always horrified of death by
firing squads, especially when I thought of the huge numbers of women and
children who would have to be killed. I had enough of hostage executions,
and the mass killings by firing squads ordered by Himmler and Heydrich. 

"Now I was at ease. We were all saved from these bloodbaths, and the
victims would be spared until the last moment. This was what I worried
about the most when I thought of Eichmann's accounts of the mowing down of
the Jews with machine guns and pistols by the Einsatzgruppe. Horrible
scenes were supposed to have occurred: people running away even after
being shot, the killing of those who were only wounded, especially of
women and children. Another thing on my mind was the many suicides among
the ranks of the SS Special Action Squads who could no longer mentally
endure wading in the bloodbath. Some of them went mad. Most of the members
of the Special Action Squads drank a great deal to help get through this
horrible work. According to [Captain] Ho"ffle's accounts, the men of
Globocnik's extermination section drank tremendous quantities of alcohol.

_Death dealer: the memoirs of the SS Kommandant at Auschwitz_ / by Rudolph
Ho"ss; edited by Steven Paskuly; translated by Andrew Pollinger; forward
by Primo Levi - 1st Da Capo Press ed. 1996; ISBN 0-306-80698-3;
pp.155-157.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:48 PDT 1996
Article: 77071 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: pardoning of experimental subjects
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:11:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 300 (From: Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Teleprint

To
SS-Obersturmfu"hrer Schnitzler
Mu"nchen

Please inform SS-Untersturmfu"htrer Dr. Rascher with regard to his
teleprint inquiry that the intruction given some time ago by the
Reichsfu"hrer SS concerning the pardoning of experimental subjects does
not apply to Poles and Russians.

                             signed: Brandt
                             SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer

Oct 21, 1942
Bra./Dr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:49 PDT 1996
Article: 77072 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Crematorium II, stage of construction
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:12:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 60
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The translation of a report from the Panstwowe Muzeum Oswiecim-Brzezinka.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 195; (Plate 402 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copy                                                         January 29,1943 

Subject:    Crematorium II, stage of construction
Re:         Teleprint from SS-WVHA, No 2648 of Jan, 28, 1943
Encl.:      1 inspector's report

To
Amtsgruppenchef C
SS Brigadefuhrer and
Generalmajor of the Waffen-SS, Dr. Ing. Kammler
Berlin Lichterfelde West
Unter den Eichen 126-135

Despite unspeakable difficulties and frost, the crematorium has been
completed apart from minor construction details. The whole of the
available labor force was employed day and night. The incinerators were
heated up in the presence of the chief engineer of Topf and Sons,
contracting firm. They functioned perfectly. The wooden supports for the
iron and concrete ceilings in the mortuary could not be removed because of
frost. This is however unimportant as the gassing celler can be used
instead. Because of rail restrictions the firm Topf and Sons was not able
to deliver the ventilation system punctually. As soon as the ventilation
system is delivered, the installation will be started immediately so that
the whole plant should be ready for service by Feb, 20, 1943. A report
>from  the test engineer of the Firm Topf and Dons, Erfurt, is enclosed.


             The Chief Zentralbauleintung of the Waffen-SS
             and Police Auschwitz

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Note: The sentance "This is however unimportant as the gassing celler can
be used instead." appears as:

"Die ist jedoch unbeteutend, da der Vergasungskeller fur benfitst werden kann."

My apologies, due to the small size of the plate and faded type (and my
paucity of the German language), in that the origional text may not be
presented verbatim. However, I do believe the word "Vergasungskeller" _is_
presented verbatim.   


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:50 PDT 1996
Article: 77073 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Dr. Larson on camp conditions
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:12:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 96
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5


"Crime Doctor" McCallum & Larson, pp. 46,47,56,59,60,62,63. 
ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403.


"On 3 May, 1945 at 1400 hours, I inspected a German train at the above
location. [Seeshaupt, near Munich] This portion of the train consisted of
approcimately 60 boxcars and flatcars in which approximately 1,500
prisoners and slave-laborers of all nationalities were being transported
to another location in Germany on 26 April, 1945.... All of the bodies
were in the most pitiful condition, being clothed in rags, the majority
having no shoes and insufficient blankets. There were no sanitary
facilities aboard the train and the flatcars had no tops, leaving the
occupants of these cars exposed to the elements. The flat tops were
covered with barbed wire which left a space only 3 feet high for those
occupying these cars. All of the bodies inspected were emanciated,
infested with lice and had apparantly been dead for about a week. A few of
the bodies in which no known cause of death was observed had an
_erthyematous_ (red) rash which could have been due to typhus. Practically
all of the bodies were filthy dirty, indicating that the people had no
opportunity to bathe for a long time. Most of the bodies had either
decubitus sores and/or infected wounds and ulcers of a minor character on
various parts of the body. Personal effects were practically nil, but
identification was possible by means of numbers tatooed on arms and
chests...

"The first Kauffring Camps that Team Number 6823 investigated were located
on the east side of the Rhine, situated in and around the town of
Landsburg, Germany.... The prisoners were all underfed and poorly housed.
Barracks were deplorable. They all wore similar clothing and were
unprotected against the winter weather. They were so closely packed
together that sanitation was practically nonexistant, and consequently
they suffered from multiple diseases. They were all very poorly
nourished..." 

"Shortly after the fall of Munich, Major Larson went on to Dachau with his
war crimes investigating team. Dachau was located about 10 kilometers from
Munich.

"This most horrible of prisons was sealed up tight as a drum. Inside an
American Engineer battalion had gotton hold of some DDT and was spraying
everybody because a typhus epidemic was spreading like wildfire. Typhus
spreads from one person to another by infected lice, and all the dead were
crawling with lice....

"'Many of them died from typhus... Dachau's crematoriums couldn't keep up
with the burning of the bodies... I found that a number of the victims had
also died from tuberculosis. All of them were malnourished. The medical
facilities were most inadequate. There was no sanitation.'

"'Dachau was a city of the dead when we got there. We found heaps of
bodies outside the crematoriums, 400 to 500 bodies to a heap. Such human
waste.They were horribly emaciated, horribly scarred with infected ulcers.
They died in all sorts of positions: some of the legs were flexed, some
not flexed, there was little muscle tissue left in the legs; many of them
weighed less than 100 pounds. Most of the bodies were eastern Europeans,
civilians from Poland and Rumania, most of them Jewish.... Those prisoners
still alive were mere scarecrows. They had gone for days with nothing to
eat, and yet, right up to the very end, the German guards were still
trying to march them back and forth to work This was despite the fact that
they were dropping dead from typhus with 105-degree temeratures....

"Living conditions were deplorable. Colonel Larson's [now promoted]
investigation revealed that aproximately 100 inmates were crowded into
each small baracks, 60 feet long by 17 feet wide, with virtually no
ventilation. From Col. Larson's notebook, circa 1945:

"'The prisoners were forced to sleep on wooden ledges covered with straw
and lay side by side with no separating partitions. These ledges were
double-decked with a space of only two feet between the upper and lower
decks. There were two parallel rows of the double-deck ledges, one on each
side of the room, with an aisle three feet wide down the center. Many of
these barracks had no flooring. Latrine and hygienic facilities were
notably inadequate. Only one small hand towel was issued to each prisoner
once every three months. Blankets were inadequate in number, averaging
only one per person even for the winter months. Clothes were of a very
poor grade of cotton-wool mixture and no overcoats were issued. Many of
the prisoners had no shoes when they were liberated by the Americans....

"'...Daily many prisoners ate grass and other edible grees to supplimant
their diets. Total average daily caloric intake was 1,000 calories- far
short of requirements. Since the average prisoner performed 12 hours of
manual labor daily, his body required 3,000 to 4,000 calories. Thus the
extreme degree of emanciation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:51 PDT 1996
Article: 77074 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Engineering Office/Industrial Incinerators
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:12:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The translation of a report from the Dachau-Archiv.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 174; (Plate 364 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

W. Muller

Engineering Office/Industrial Incinerators
Allach/Munchen

To the
Reichfuhrung SS of the NSDAP
Munich
Karlstrasse
                                           June 2,1937
Incinerators

I thank you for your inquiry and take the liberty of offering as you
requested the following incinerators:

A consultation with the commandant of Dachau concentration camp Mr.
Oberfuhrer Loritz has revealed that there is no coal gas available. I can
therefore offer you a coke-fired incinerator which has proved to be very
reliable.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:52 PDT 1996
Article: 77076 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: First execution shooting in Auschwitz
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:12:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); pp. 35. (Ref: APMO D-AuI-1/5, 6, 8-9, 10-13, 50-56,
The Execution of November 22, 1940)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

November 22 [1940]

The first execution by shooting takes place in the camp. Those executed
are the 40 Poles Himmler selected from the four lists presented by the
local Stapo in retaliation for the alleged violence and assualt on police
officials in Kattowitz. Himmler orders the execution to be carried out
without the public's knowledge. The list of the condemmed is sent with
instructions of the SS Commander in Chief* on November 1 in the form of an
order through the Head of Sipo and SD in Berlin, Heydrich, to the Superior
SS and Police Commander in Breslau, von dem Bach-Zelewski. The latter
gives an additional order to the head of the Gestapo in Kattowitz, Senior
State Councillor Dr. Emmanuel Scha:fer. Because of the order to carry out
the execution in secret, the site of Auschwitz C.C. is selected. The
condemmed are admitted to Auschwitz on November 22 at 11:45 AM from the
Kripo headquarters in Kattowitz. The execution is performed at 12 0'clock;
it takes 20 minutes and is directed by SS First Lieutenant Karl Fritzsch,
the Camp Commander. SS Second Lieutenant Ta"ger is the commander of the
execution squad, consisting of 20 SS Men from the Auschwitz Death's Head
Guard Company. Two SS Men shot each of the condemned individually.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:52 PDT 1996
Article: 77077 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Fritsch's speech to prisoners from Tarno'w
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:12:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5


Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p. 13. (Ref: Kielar, _Anus Mundi_, p.17. The text in
this speech is also contained in APMO, Materialy Obozowego Rychu Oporu
(Materials of the Camp Resistance Movement), vol. VII, p.464 (hereafter
cited as Mat.RO).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

June 14 [1940]

...With blows, kicks, and shouts, the detainees from Tarno'w are driven
into the cellar, where they undergo the admissions procedure. They are
robbed of their personal belongings, shorn of their hair, taken to the
baths for disinfection, registered, and marked with numbers. As soon as
they get their clothes back they are taken to the courtyard, where they
line up in rows of five for the first roll call. The First Camp Commander,
SS Captain Karl Fritzch, greets them with the following speech translated
into Polish by two inmates selected as interpreters: "You have not come to
a sanatorium here but to a German concentration camp and the only way out
is through the chimney of the crematorium. If there's anybody who doesn't
like it, he can walk into the wire right away. If there are any Jews in a
transport, they have no right to live longer than two weeks, priests for a
month, and the rest for three months."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:53 PDT 1996
Article: 77078 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Incinerators for crematoriums
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:21:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 50
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The translation of a report from the Dachau-Archiv.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 174; (Plate 365 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

H. KORI, Ltd,    Berlin W 35, May 18, 1943
Technical Office and Factory for
Refuse Incinerators of all kinds and
complete Incinerator plants
Biloers, Chimneys
Re: Incinerators for crematoriums


To
Amt C III Reichsfuhrer SS and
Chief of the German Police
att. of Engineer Waller
Berlin Lichterfelde West
Unter den Eichen 126-135

Re: Crematorium Incinerators

As a result of our conversion regarding the supply of a standard
incinerator plant we would like to suggest our coal burning "Reform"
-incinerators which have proved very successful so far.-

Plan No.8998 shows the layout for two incinerators, whereas plan No. J
9122 shows a layout for the four incinerators already installed at Dachau.

Our estimate for the purchase of two incinerators is a follows: 1) 2
"Reform" -incinerators of the latest model with an arched coffin chamber
and horizontal ash grate, including all fittings, outer door, furnace door
and cleaning door, ventile, furnace accessories, and fire-gate...

In the case of a second incinerator being installed the price would be
reduced to RM 4.050.-. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:54 PDT 1996
Article: 77079 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: test heating of the ovens in Crematorium II
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:33:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

³Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945²/ Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  p. 345.

Reference: APMO, D-Mau-3a/16408. Personal-Information Card for Mieczyslaw
Morawa; D-AuI-sa/101, Confirmation of Bruck¹s Arrival
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
March 5  [1943]

During a test heating of the ovens in Crematorium II in Birkenau, the Capo
August Bruck, who has just been transferred from Buchenwald, explains the
construction of the ovens to the prisoners in the Special Squads and
familiarizes them with the instructions for use. The generators run from
morning until 4:00 P.M. In the course of the day, a commission arrives
made up of higher-level SS people from Berlin, members of the camp
management, function of the camp¹s Political Department, as well as
engineers and employees of the firm of J.A. Topf and Sons in Erfurt, which
built the crematorium ovens. In their presence, member of the Special
Squad stoke the 15 retorts of the five crematorium ovens with 45 corpses.
With clock in hand, the members of the commission time the cremation of
the corpses, which at 40 minutes takes an unexpectedly long time. The
Special Squad is therefore ordered to let the generators run constantly
for several days so the ovens get heated up. Participating at the trial
start-up of the crematorium ovens, which lasts from March 4 to March 6, is
the Head Capo August Bruck and Mieczyslaw Morawa (No. 5730), the Capo of
Crematorium I who was ordered to Birkenau for the test. Afterward he
returns to the main camp.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:55 PDT 1996
Article: 77080 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rascher's low temperature experiments
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:19:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.143, Plate 294 (From: IMT, Band XXV, Nu"rnberg 1947)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. med. S. Rascher                                Munich, Feb 17, 1943
SS-Hauptsturmfu"hrer

To the Reichsfu"hrer
and Chief of German Police
Mr. Heinrich Himmler
Berlin SW 11
Prinz-Albrecht-Str. 8

Honourable Reichsfu"hrer,

Please find enclosed a summary of the results of the experiments using
animal warmth for warming up, conducted on persons who have been subjected
to very low temperatures. At the moment I am working on experiments on
human beings to prove that persons whose temperature has been reduced by
dry freezing can be just as quickly warmed up as those who have been
placed in cold water (for a period of time). However, SS Reichs-Doctor and
SS Group Leader Dr. Gravitz strongly doubts that this is possible and is
of the opinion that I would have to conduct at least 100 experiments to
provide conclusive evidence. Up to the present moment I have exposed about
30 naked persons to the open air and have reduced their body temperature
within a period of 9 to 14 hours to between 27 and 29 degrees centigrade.
After a period of time equal to that of one hour's transportation I placed
them in a hot bath. In every case so far, in spite of occasional
peripheral numbness, the patient was fully warmed up within one hour at
the most. On the following day a few of the test persons showed some
debility accompanied by a slight rise in temperature. I did not observe
any fatalities due to this extrordinary rapid warming up process.
Honourable Reichsfu"hrer, I have been unable to conduct the warming up
experiments using the sauna, as you ordered, becuase in December and
January the water was too warm to conduct experiments in the open air. In
addition to this the camp is under quarantine because of a typhus outbreak
which has menat that I have not been able to take the (experimantal
subjects) patients in the SS sauna. I have been vaccinated several times
and carry out the experiments personally in spite of the fact that there
is typhus in the camp. The least complicated solution would be for me to
join the "Waffen-SS" and along with Neff to be transferred to Auschwitz.
Here large scale experiments can be conducted on the re-warming of persons
who have been subjected to extreme cooling in the open air. Auschwitz is
more suitable from every point of view as it is colder there and the camp
itself is much larger, thereby attracting less attention to the test
persons who tend to scream when freezing!
Honourable Reichsfu"hrer, if you approve that these experiments which are
most important for the Army be carried out as quickly as possible in
Auschwitz (or Lublin or another camp in the east) I humbly request that
you issue an appropriate order so that we can make use of the remaining
winter conditions.

                                           Your obediant and grateful
                                           servant
                                           Heil Hitler
                                           Yours faithfully
                                           S. Rascher

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:56 PDT 1996
Article: 77081 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: More than 200 experiments were caried...
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:19:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.143, Plate 292 (Mitscherlich, A., Mielke, F., Medizin ohne
Menschlichkeit, Frankfurt/M., (Fischer), 1960)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

More than 200 experiments were caried out in which 70-8- persons died.
(Rascher, secret report, dated May 4, 1942).

(IMT Court records, p. 72) A total of 360-400 experiments were carried out
on 280-300 experimental subjects 80-90 of whom died.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:57 PDT 1996
Article: 77082 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rascher on combat gases
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:19:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The following is a translation of a letter from the Bundesarchiv Koblenz.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 169; (Plate 356 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Sigmund Rascher                         Munich
                                            Trogertr. 56, August 9, 1942

Esteemd Reichsfuhrer!

......

As you know, the same installation as in Linz is to be built in Daschau.
As the "invalid transports" terminate in the special chambers anyway I
wondered if it would be possible to test the effects of our different
combat gases in these chambers using the persons who are destined for
these chambers anyway. The only reports which are available so far are of
experiments on animals or of accidents which occured in the manufacture of
the gases. Because of this paragraph I am marking this letter "Secret".

......  

                                             Your obediant servant
                                             Heil Hitler!
                                             S. Rascher

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:57 PDT 1996
Article: 77083 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Rascher to Camp Commandant Weiss
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:19:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 298 (From: National Archives, Washington)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. Rascher to Camp Commandant Weiss, Dachau
                                                  Oct 10, 1942

The Russian prisoner of war Chonitsch ... born May 24, 1920, was
transferred to me on Sep 28, for experimental purposes. Chonitsch is a
Russian who was to be executed. As the RF SS had ordered me to use persons
sentenced to death for dangerous experiments, I wanted to conduct an
experiment on this Russian which I was absolutely sure he would not
survive. I reported at the time "You can be assured that the Russian will
certainly not survive the experiment and will be dead by the given date."
Contrary to all expectations the Russian in question survived 3
experiments which would have been fatal for any other person. In
accordance with the RF SS' order that all test subjects who are sentanced
to death but survive a dangerous experiment should be pardoned, I beg you
to take the appropriate steps. I regret that the wrong assumption on our
part has given rise to extra corrospondance work.

                     With many thanks and Heil Hitler!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:58 PDT 1996
Article: 77084 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: prisoners in Dachau condemmed to death
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:20:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 299 (From: Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichssicherheitshauptamt
Teleprinter's Office

                                                         Oct, 20, 1942
Urgent
RF SS Mu"nchen Blitz Nr. 2020 20.10.42.1705
To: SS-Obersturmbannfu"hrer Dr. Brandt
Field Command Post (Feldkommandostelle) Hegewald

Highly esteemed Obersturmbannfu"hrer -

Will you please clarify the following case with the Reichsfu"hrer SS as
soon as possible.

In the Reichsfu"hrer SS' letter of April 18, 1942 it is ordered in § 3
that if prisoners in Dachau condemmed to death live through experiments
which have endangered their lives, they should be pardoned. As up to now
for these experiments only Poles and Russians were available, some of whom
had been condemned to death, I am not certain whether the above mentioned
§ 3 is applicapble to them or not and whether these experiments may not be
pardoned to life-long concentration camp imprisonment. 

Request reply by teleprint via Adjutancy RF-SS Munich

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:07:59 PDT 1996
Article: 77085 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Mass murder at Kaufering
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:20:50 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The follow is an translation of an article from Suddeneutsche Zeeitung,
29.11.1945.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 221; (Plate 448 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

MASS MURDER IN THE DACHAU SUBSIDIARY CAMP OF KAUFERING

No end to the horror

Dachau Nov 29, (from our own correspondent)

The first witness, Capt. J. Barnett, described the conditions which he in
Kaufering, a subsidiary camp of Dachau, on April 30, 1945. The witness
stated: As I entered the camp, which was surrounded by a two meter high
barbed-wire fence flanked by two big watch towers, I discovered a sign on
which was written in German ³No entrance-typhus epidemic.² The camp itself
was almost completely burned down and near the entrance I found more than
200 almost completely charred bodies. The few uncharred bodies were
emaciated skeletons, literally only consisting of skin and bones. The
opening of two large makeshift pits, carried out by a Health Officer,
revealed a huge number of corpses piled on top of one another, in five
layers. The arms and legs of many of the corpses had been broken,
apparently to force them into the pit. All life in the camp had been
extinguished. The living quarters of the prisoners holes in the earth with
a roof over them. One had to pass through a trench to enter each hole. The
contents were more than primitive. There were no beds in the living
quarters. On the floor there were wood shavings and a few dirty blankets.
I inspected the camps 1, 2, 4, 6 and 7. The latter was a work camp for
Jewish prisoners. No. 8 was empty and No, 9, near the airport, had been
blown up with the airport. During my inspection of the camp some prisoners
appeared who had fled into the woods several days before.
³Counted like gold and treated like dirt.² 
One of them was the former Camp Clerk Dr. Fried. In the witness box he
related that he had graduated as a medical doctor in Prague. He had come
to Kaufering on Oct 6, 1944, along with 1500 other prisoners after the
Auschwitz camp had been evacuated. In the camp there were only Jewish
prisoners of all nationalities, about 2000 men and 280 women. This figure
increased to 3000 by January 1945. The sanitary conditions were absolutely
catastrophic. For 3000 prisoners there were, literally, 3 toilet
facilities, which were absolutely filthy, as many prisoners had been
suffering from dysentery. There were no washing facilities whatsoever, no
warm water, no sheets, no towels or under-wear. A prisoner¹s outfit
consisted of a jacket, a shirt, a pair of trousers and clogs. These items
came for the most part from Jews who had been gassed at Auschwitz.
Nutrition was so bad that prisoners died of starvation each day. There
were only 400 bowls for 3000 prisoners, which meant that they had to eat
in shifts...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:00 PDT 1996
Article: 77086 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:20:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

 Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz 
construction department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, 
p. 158-159]
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
should be ready by February 20th.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:01 PDT 1996
Article: 77087 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Karl Fritzsch
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:21:30 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p.811. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Karl Fritzsch (SS Captain), born 1903 in Nassengrub, joined the Nazi Party
(No. 261,135) and later the SS. From 1940 to the end of 1941, as SS
Captain, he was Protective Custody Commander in Auschwitz. Polish Prisoner
Tadeusz Paczula has transmitted one of his harangues to "new accensions"
on the parade ground: "You are in a German concentration camp. The
entrance is through the main gate with the inscription 'Work Makes Free'
on it. Here, there is only one exit: through the chimney of the
crematorium...." From 1942, Fritzsch was Commandant of Flossenbu"rg C.C.
He allegedly died in May 1945.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:02 PDT 1996
Article: 77088 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:21:47 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 61
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Consider the following, a US Army pathologist's report:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Seventh Medical Laboratory
  APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
  Section of Pathology 

  25 May 1945


  SUBJECT:  Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides 

  TO     :  COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army 
            (ATTN:   JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 


  1.  There were submitted to this laboratory section for 
  examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN 
  from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of 
  Case 81 T.J.A. 

  2.  The description follows: 

  ......

  PIECE C:  Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The 
  upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm. 
  The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper 
  area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the 
  umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm.  ....

  MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen 
  showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. 
  Granular black pigment granules are seen between some 
  of the bundles. 

  3.  Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens 
  are tattooed human skin. 

  For the Commanding Officer, 
  
  (signature)
  REUBEN CARES 
  Major M.C. 
  Chief of Pathology 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:02 PDT 1996
Article: 77089 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: beaten to death with rods
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:25:57 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

³Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945²/ Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  p. 143.

Reference: APMO, Hoss Trial, vol. 4, p. 88, Account of Former Prisoner
Stefan Wolny; D-AuI-5/2, Morgue Register, pp. 159ff.; D-AuI-5/3, Infirmary
Register of Block 28, pp. 485-494; Czeslaw Ostankowicz, ³Isolation Ward,
ŒLast¹ Block,² _HvA_, no. 16 (1978): 159ff.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

March 13  [1942]

...1,200 convalescents and patients whose rapid recovery to the point of
being able to work seems questionable are transferred to Birkenau and
lodged in Barrack Number 4, later Number 7, the so-called isolation ward
of Section B-Ib. The sick are unloaded in the courtyard of the barrack and
are beaten to death with rods by SS men. The corpses of the murdered men
are brought back to Auschwitz and incinerated in the crematorium....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:03 PDT 1996
Article: 77094 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The pits burn ceaselessly
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:43:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

_Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945_ / Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  p. 242.

Reference: SAM, _Auschwitz in the Eyes of the SS_, Comments by Hoss, p. 115.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 21 [1942]

Burning the corpses of the dead in the open is begun in Birkenau. At first
the bodies are burned on wood piles on which 2,000 bodies are stacked at a
time, and later in pits with earlier buried and again uncovered bodies. To
burn the bodies faster, they are first drenched with oil residue and then
with wood alcohol. The pits burn ceaselessly, day and night.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 00:08:04 PDT 1996
Article: 77095 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It is not harmful to operate the incinerators day and night
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:44:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

_Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945_ / Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  pp. 71, 72.

Reference: Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International
Military Tribunal Nuremburg, 1948, Bd 26, pp. 267ff. (710-PS).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 14  [1941]

J.A. Toph and Sons reply to the letter of July 9, 1941, with operating
instructions in triplicate to the SS Commander in Chief and Chief of
Police, the Budget and Buildings Main Office, and the Mauthausen SS
Construction Administration. The letter requests that the operating
instructions be posted in a visible place in the crematorium. The letter
also states: ³In the coke-heated T-double-muffle incinerator, 10 to 35
bodies can be incinerated in about 10 hours. The quantity mentioned above
can be incinerated daily without any problem, without overworking the
oven. It is not harmful to operate the incinerators day and night, if
required, since the fire clay lasts longer when an even oven temperature
is maintained.²*

*These comments also refer to the incinerators in Auschwitz, which are of
the same construction.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 09:34:48 PDT 1996
Article: 166499 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:34:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 1
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Oct 26 14:46:25 PDT 1996
Article: 77189 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:25:47 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References: <54lv5j$4gn@news.enter.net> <54qdo0$1s6@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54qdo0$1s6@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> From what I read Goeth was arrested by the SS.  

Need I remind Herr Schwarzesel that his claim was that various and sundry
concentration camp commandants were executed for "mistreating" Jews? Need
I also remind Herr Schwarzesel that Amon Goeth was tried, convicted,
sentenced and exececuted by the Polish government AFTER the war ended? 

And need I remind Herr Schwarzesel that all his lying scumbag Nazi
apologia will not change these facts one iota? 

> Perhaps the source was in error.  

Or perhaps Herr Schwarzesel, true to his personna as a lying scumbag Nazi
apologist, was in "error?" 

> If so, please provide another source for this. 

Already done. 

> Grabner and others in the political department at Auschwitz
> were also under arrest or about to be arrested, and Hoess was 
> under investigation as well.  

Need I remind Herr Schwarzesel that his claim was that various and sundry
concentration camp commandants were executed for "mistreating" Jews? 

> Also, in my recent post, Papa Eiche
> speaks I have another reference.  

So? Lying scumbag Nazi apologia remains lying scumbag Nazi apologia no
matter how many times Herr Schwarzesel repeats himself. 

> And of course there was Koch 
> and members of his staff.  

Need I remind Herr Schwarzesel that his claim was that various and sundry
concentration camp commandants were executed for "mistreating" Jews? Koch
was "dissapeared" for much more than merely "mistreating" Jews. 

> There were many others as well.

Need I remind Herr Schwarzesel that his claim was that various and sundry
concentration camp commandants were executed for "mistreating" Jews?
Perhaps Herr Schwarzesel would care to name ten other concentration camp
commanders who were executed by the SS for "mistreating" Jews? 

No? Thought not. Obviously, this "issue" is nothing more than a canard for
Herr Schwarzesel to yet again promulgate his lying scumbag Nazi apologia. 

> Murder was prohibited in the Third Reich-and this included 
> murder of Jews as well.

And Herr Schwarzesel's evidence that the mass murder of Jews, in face of
the mountain of evidence to the contrary, was prohibited by the Nazis is? 

What?  Herr Schwarzesel has NO such "evidence?" How unsuprising given that
all Herr Schwarzesel has evidenced in this group is that he is nothing
more than a kying scumbag Nazi apologist. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Oct 27 01:02:17 PDT 1996
Article: 77222 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.clark.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 13:33:44 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <549cgh$l52@news.enter.net>     <846089880snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <846089880snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> > > I have never supported the nazi ideology. 
> > 
> > Yet you promulgate it.
> > 
> > >I have never advocated  dictatorship. 
> > 
> > Yet you enthusiastically endorse the same infringements of human rights.
> > 
> > > You certainly do not have to be a nazi just because 
> > > you are a racialist. 
> > 
> 
> He's got a point; in Britain, Organised Jewry have voted in favour of ID 
> cards,FOR suppression of free speech and other repressive legislation, and 
> they support an organisation called "Jewish Continuity" which promotes 
> precisely that concept. 

Care to provide the documented evidence for this, Al? No? Imagine that.


> ...You certainly don't have to be a Goy to be both a Nazi and a "racist".

But in your case, Al, you are. Imagine that. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:31 PST 1996
Article: 77444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Cremation Furnaces for 'Bath Installations'?
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:04:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <326cd72e.1216343@news.inetport.com> <54qk31$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <54qk31$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> You display your ignorance again.  Multi-faceted ignorance
> at that.  These facilities all had shower/bath facilities, as
> the people who worked near or in the cremation ovens handled
> bodies all day, silly man.  They also worked in autopsy rooms,
> and with delousing, so "special operations" need not have
> the sinister connotation you wish to assign to it.

And? What exactly, Herr Schwarzesel, does this have to do with Mr.
Beaulieu little lie regarding "kremas 4 and 5 were built close to a
preexisting steam bath building" when said "preexisting steam bath
building" wasn't built until AFTER people were being murdered in the
Kremas? 

Why, it has absolutely _nothing_ to do with it, of course! Simply another
Herr Schwarzesel "special" - red herring on lies. 

However, out of curiosity, Herr Schwarzesel, can you designate the
document(s) that detail the location of the showers in Krema II and who
was allowed to use them? 

Or is that too much to ask a lying scumbag Nazi apologist such as yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:31 PST 1996
Article: 77447 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS FOR TOPF DOUBLE-MUFFLE FURNACE
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:32:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 66
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Pressac, Jean-Claude.  Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas
Chambers.  New York: The Beate Klarsfield Foundation, 1989. 

Page 136: Document G2a and G2b [PMO file BW 11/1, page 3].

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS FOR COKE-FIRED TOPF
                        DOUBLE-MUFFLE INCINERATION FURNACE

Before charging the two hearths with coke, the two furnace dampers and the
main rotary damper in the chimney must be open.

The fire can now be lit and maintained, being sure to open both secondary
openings to the right and left of the cinder removal doors (of the coke
furnace).

Once the cremation chamber (muffle) has been brought to a good red heat
(approximately 800°C), the corpses can be introduced one after another in
the cremation chambers.

Now the pulsed air blower situated to the side of the furnace should be
switched on and run for about 20 minutes, ensuring that the two cremation
chambers do not receive too much or too little fresh air. 

Regulation of the fresh air is by means of a rotary valve in the sir duct.
In addition, the air intakes, to the right and left of the chamber doors,
should be half open.

As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte grid
to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards
the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a
further 20 minutes to be fully consumed, then the ashes should be placed
in the container and set aside to cool.

In the meantime, further corpses can be introduced one after the other
into the chambers.

The two coke furnaces must be fed with fuel from time to time.

Every evening, the furnace fire bars must be cleaned of clinker and the
cinders removed.

In addition, care must be taken that at the end of operations, as soon  as
the furnace, having burnt everything is empty and no coals remain, that
the air valves, doors and damper are closed, so that the furnace does not
cool.

After each incineration, the temperature rises in the furnace. For this
reason, care must be taken that the internal temperature does not rise
above 100°C (white heat).

This increase in temperature can be avoided by introducing additional fresh air.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:32 PST 1996
Article: 77451 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The tactics of Mr. Blackmore Displayed
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:17:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <32711e11.359326440@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32711e11.359326440@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
Curtis) wrote:

[snip]

> 
> Mr. Blackmore is so out of sorts that he thinks I was calling him
> Pigpen....

Well... Herr Schwarzesel _does_ write like a swine, after all!  };-> 


[snip]

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:33 PST 1996
Article: 77462 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Dachau Commandant faces Prosecutor
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:13:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The following is a translation of an article from Suddeneutsche Zeeitung,
4.12.45.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 221; (Plate 449 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suddeutsche Zeitung No. 18


Dachau Commandant faces the Prosecutor.

Each one blames the other, all were innocent.


Approaching a decisive stage.

Dachau Dec 1, (from our own corrospondant)

With the interrogation of the principal defendant at the Dachau trial
slowly approaching a decisive stage. The commandant Obersturmbannfuhrer
Martin Gottfried Weiss took his place as a witness in front of the
judges... 
He stated: ³I was absolutely powerless in the face of experiments of Dr.
Rascher and Prof. Dr. Schilling. I had already heard in Berlin of Prof.
Dr. Schilling¹s malaria department and the cold water experiments for the
air force lead by Dr. Rascher. I was told in Berlin that Reichsfuhrer SS
Himmler was personally responsible for these two experimental departments
and that I should not interfere. On Nov 10, 1942, Himmler made a personal
appearance in Dachau and visited the Rascher department. He sent for me
and I was made to attend an experiment which had already begun. Afterwards
Himmler said: Rascher and Shilling are responsible to me personally for
their experiments and you must obey their orders.² ...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:34 PST 1996
Article: 77463 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Game for Sadists
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:13:01 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

The following is a translation of an article from Suddeneutsche Zeeitung,
25.11.45.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 221; (Plate 447 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

APRIL 1, 1945: 65613 DACHAU PRISONERS

27649 in Dachau, 37964 in subsidiary camps.


Game for Sadists

Dachau-Nov 25, (from our own correspondent)

In the course of the trial different witnesses have described to an
overcrowded court room the brutal methods employed by the camp and
subsidiary camp leaders for whom the prisoners were welcome game in the
satisfaction of their almost pathological sadism. All witnesses report the
same: scenes of beating, torture, homicide, murder of hostages, deliberate
contamination with malaria, pus injections for experimental purposes, and
operations carried out on healthy persons...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:34 PST 1996
Article: 77464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Himmler's second inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:13:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); p.199. (Ref: Ibid., pp.237-238; APMO, Ho"ss Trial,
vol. 6, p.85; Julia Skowdowa, _Tri roky bez mena_ (Three Years Without a
Name), Bratislava, 1962, p.35.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 18 [1942]

With Schmauser, Himmler visits thr kitchens, the women's camp  (which then
includes Blocks 1-10), the workshops, the stables, the personal effcects
camp (so-called Canada), and the DAW plant as well as the butcher shop and
the bakery. He sees the prisoners and makes precise inquiries about each
prisoner catagory and the current occupancy level. In the women's camp he
is shown the effect of a whipping. Himmler must personally approve the
flogging of women. He is also present at the role call. There, SS Head
Supervisor Langefeldt applies for the release of a few German female
prisoners who have been imprisoned for a long time in the concentration
camp. Himmler consents to the release.* After the tour, a final discussion
takes place in Ho"ss's office. In Schmauser's presence, Himmler says the
Sipo operations he has ordered must not be stopped for any reason, least
of all because the lack of accomodations and so forth which was presented
to him. He orders Ho"ss to proceed faster with the construction of the
Birkenau camp, to kill the Jewish prisoners who are unfit for work, to
prepare for the building of the armaments plants, and to pursue the
agricultural experiments intensively. In recognition for his work and
performance, Ho"ss is promoted to SS Lieutenant Colonel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:35 PST 1996
Article: 77465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Himmler's second inspection
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:13:33 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
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Source: "Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945 / Danuta Czech. - 1st American ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8); pp. 198-199. (Ref: Ho"ss, _Commandant in Auschwitz_,
pp. 233-236.) 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 17 [1942]

SS Commander in Chief Himmler carries out a second inspection in
Auschwitz. The Gauleiter of Upper Silisia, Bracht, SS General Schmauser,
and SS Lieutenant General Kammler also take part. On the first day, Ho"ss
explains the arrangement and position of the camps using maps. In the
Construction Administration , Kammler explains the projects either planned
or under construction with the help of maps, blueprints, and models.
Finally, Himmler and his escort tour the whole Interest Zone: the farms
and soil improvement projects, the dam construction, the laboratories, and
the plant breeding in Rajskom the cattle breeding and nursery. Inspecting
Birkenau, Himmler observes the prisoners at work, tours accommodations,
kitchens, and infirmeries and sees the emanciated victims of the epidemic.
After touring Birkenau, he takes part in the killing of one of the newly
entered transports of Jews. He attends the unloading, the selection of the
able-bodied, the killing by gas in Bunker 2, and the clearing of the
bunker. At this time, the corpses are not yet being burned are piled up in
pits and buried. Then Himmler tours the Buna plant and the installation of
a sewage gas plant. In the evening there is a reception for the guests and
all SS officers of the Auschwitz garrison. After the reception, Himmler
goes with Ho"ss, Schmauser, Kammler and the Director of Agriculture Caesar
to a reception at the home og Gauleiter Bracht in Kattowitz, to which, at
Himmler's request, Mrs. Ho"ss also comes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:36 PST 1996
Article: 77466 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: high altitude experiments
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:13:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

Source: "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" (ISBN 3-87490-528-4); 
p.144, Plate 297 (From the Bundesarchiv Koblenz)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Dr. Rascher,

Shortly before flying to Oslo, the Reichsfu"hrer SS gave me your letter of
May, 15, 1941, for partial reply. I can inform you that prisoners will of
course gladly be made available for the high altitude experiments.

Dr. Sigmund Rascher                                                Munich,
                                             Trogerstr. 56, 16 April, 1942

Most honourable Reichsfu"hrer,

Allow me to express my gratitude for your letter dated April 13, I was
very pleased to learn of your great interests in these experiments and
their results. I thank you for the suggestions which you made in your
letter.
The experiments mentioned in the report dated 4.4. has been repeated four
times - always with the same results. The last subject Wagner, was revived
through increased pressure after his respiration had stopped. Since the
subject Wagner had been selected for a terminal experiment, a repitition
of wich did not promise any new results, and as your letter had not
reached me, I subsequently initiated a new experimnt which the subject did
not survive.
Now I have one other request: May I photograph the individual organs which
have been prepared in the Concentration Camp Pathology Department, in
order to have a record of the unusual formations of the multiple air
embolisms. My wife has already written to SS-Sturmbannfu"hrer Dr. Brandt
with regards to this matter.
I remain your obediant servant,

                                              Heil Hitler!
                                              Your grateful servant
                                              S. Rascher

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 07:12:36 PST 1996
Article: 77494 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Use of hair cuttings
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:18:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
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The translation of a report from IMT, Band XX, Nurnberg 1947.

This translation was taken from "Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945" 
(ISBN 3-87490-528-4), p. 137; (Plate 282 with translation.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

SS-Wirtschaftsverwaltungshauptamt                Oranienburg,
                                                 August 6. 1942
Amtsgruppe D - Concentration Camps
D II 288 Ma./Ha. Tgb. 112 geh.                   SECRET!
                                                 Copy 13
Re: Use of hair cuttings

To the Commandants of the Concentration Camps
Arb., Au., Bu., Da., Flo., Gr.Ro., Lu., Maut/Gu., Na., Nie., Neu.,
Rav., Sahs., Stutth., Mor., SS SL Hinzert.

SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl, Chief of the SS
Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt has ordered that the hair of concentration
camp prisoners is to be put to use. Hair is to be made into industrial
felt or spun into yarn. Woman's hair is to be used in the manufacture of
hair-yarn socks for 'U'-boat crews and hair-felt foot-wear for the
Reichs-railway.

It is therefore ordered that the hair of female prisoners be disinfected
and stored. Men's hair can only be put to use if it is longer than 20 mm.
SS Obergruppen fuhrer Pohl therefore agrees for an intial trial period to
the growing of the prisoners hair to a length of 20 mm before it is cut.
Long hair could facillitate escape and to avoid this the camp commandants
may have a middle parting shaved in the prisoners' hair as a
distinguishing mark, if they think it is necessary.

It is planned to planned to set up a hair processing workshop in one of
the concentration camps. Further details as to the delivery of the
accumulated hair will follow.

The total monthly amount of male and female hair is to be reported to this
office on the 5th of every month beginning from September 5, 1942.

                                                  signed: Glucks
                                                  SS-Brigadefuhrer und
                                                  Generalmajor der Waffen-SS

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 08:41:37 PST 1996
Article: 77517 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: one of the POW¹s is still alive
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:38:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
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³Auschwitz Chronicle, 1939-1945²/ Danuta Czech. -1st American. Ed.
(ISBN 0-8050-0938-8);  pp. 85, 86.

Reference  to September 3: APMO, Hoss Trial, vol. 2, p.  97; vol. 4, pp.
21, 34, 99, 128; vol. 5 54, p. 207; Vol. 78, p. 1, Statements of Former
Prisoners.

Reference to  September 4:  APMO, Hoss Trial, vol. 2, pp.  21, 97; 
Statements of Former Prisoners Jan Krokowski and Michal Kula.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

September 3 *  [1941]

...Then about 600 Russian POW¹s, officers, and people¹s commissars are
driven into the cellar. They have been chosen in the camp¹s
prisoner-of-war section by special Gestapo commandos. As soon as they are
pushed into the cellar and the SS men have thrown in the Zyklon B gas, the
doors are locked and sealed.** This operation takes place after evening
roll call, after the announcement of a so-called camp curfew, during which
prisoners are forbidden to leave the blocks and move around in the camps.

September 4  [1941]

In  the morning Roll Call Leader Gerhard Palitzsch, protected by a gas
mask, opens the doors and discovers that one of the POW¹s is still alive.
More Zyklon B is poured and the doors are closed once more.... In the
afternoon all the doors of the bunker in Block 11 are opened and unsealed
after it is ascertained that the second dose of Zyklon B has killed the
Russian POW¹s....

* The date comes from the analysis of the statements of former prisoners
and of the Bunker Register, in which between August 31 and September 5 no
entries occur regarding admission of prisoners onto the bunker.

** In his autobiography Rudolph Hoss writes: ³the gassing was carried out
in the detention cells of Block 11. Protected by a gas mask, I watched the
killing myself. In the crowded cells death came instantaneously the moment
the Zyklon B was thrown in . A short, almost smothered cry, and it was all
over² (Hoss, 
_Commandant in Auschwitz_, p. 126).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 11:03:15 PST 1996
Article: 77528 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Short Sharp Lesson for blackmore
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 23:34:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <54mds5$7lb@news.enter.net><54mds5$7lb@news.enter.net> <54pv07$npk@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rbn1$1euc$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> 
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In article <54rbn1$1euc$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

> Interesting how Mr. Blackmore portrays himself as an expert on history, yet is
> so supremely ignorant of it.
> 
> The list of things he is ignorant of may soon approach Giwerian levels.

Evidently at the same rate Herr Schwarzesel's IQ approaches Giwerian levels....


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 11:03:16 PST 1996
Article: 77530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:50:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 64
Message-ID: 
References: <54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54spvq$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd9$2iti$3@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3273D8F3.6595@kaiwan.com>
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In article <3273D8F3.6595@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Gord McFee wrote:
> > Which has absolutely what to do with what?  I have seen Hoess' memoirs in
> > German, English and French, and the three versions are the same.  This is 
> > the same Hoess BTW who talks openly in all three versions of his beatings 
> > by the English, his deprivation by the Poles, yet says he never expected 
> > to be treated as well as he was in a Polish prison.
> 
> The 1993 (1994?) version of Hoess' writings, under the title "Death
> Dealer," contained at least one passage not found in previous editions.
> This edition, brought out by Prometheus Press, is now available through,
> I believe De Capo Press.
> 
> Now you can see what you have been missing.

Indeed. However, as usual, what is "missing" is that Mr. Raven ommitts the
proper context when making his insinuations. To whit:

"As Jan Sehn and Ho"ss became more comfortable with each other, Sehn asked
Ho"ss to write about some of the people and try to recall some of the
documents that had been destroyed when Auschwitz was being evacuated
because of the approaching Soviet armies. Sehn also asked Ho"ss to write
about some of the people who were responsible for the major decisions
concerning the founding and construction of Auschwitz-Birkenau, such as
Himmler, Pohl, and Eicke. The others were added as requested by Sehn. Many
have never been published anywhere before. After Ho"s had completed the
anecdotal sections, he remarked to Sehn one day that there was nothing to
do in his jail cel;l in Cracow. This comment spurred Sehn to suggest that
Ho"ss write about himself. This section is often referred to by historians
as the 'Autobiography of Rudolf Ho"ss.' Ho"ss's last writings are two
letters to his wife and children and the request that his wedding ring be
sent to his wife after his execution. These have also never before been
published in the United States and are presented in this book to provide
the reader with a deeper look into Ho"ss the human being rather than Ho"ss
the zealous Nazi who followed orders without question."  (_Death Dealer_,
p.20.)  

A quick comparison between _Death Dealer_ and  the _Autobiography of
Ho"ss_ in _KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_ does indeed shows that the the
"new" sections in _Death Dealer_, chapters two through sixteen, are an
autobiography of Ho"ss's early life; his conviction, imprisonment, and
political amnesty for the murder of Vehme; and his early carreer in the SS
including, his experiances at Sachsenhausen prior to his being made
commandant of Auschwitz. Additionally, as mentioned above, are also added
the final letters to his wife and children and the profiles of the various
SS members in regard to Auschwitz.  

Most importantly, however, is the simple fact that the sections dealing
with Ho"ss experiances as the commandant of Auschwitz are basically
identical between  _Death Dealer_ and  _KL Auschwitz Seen by the SS_.
Obviously, when it comes down to the issue of any "new" revelations about
the mass murder of over a million people at Auschwitz, Mr. Raven's
insinuations, as usual, fall quite short of the mark. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 12:52:29 PST 1996
Article: 77536 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:02:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 509
Message-ID: 
References: <54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54sppe$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd2$2iti$2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3273D9D5.134C@kaiwan.com> <5521j1$1t@is05.micron.net>
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In article <5521j1$1t@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:


> At the Nuremberg Tribunal, chief U.S. prosecutor Robert Jackson charged that 
> the Germans invented" a device to instantaneously "vaporize" 20,000 Jews near 
> Auschwitz "in such a way that there was no trace left of them." IMT blue 
> series, Vol. 16, p. 529-530. (June 21, 1946).  No reputable historian now 
> accepts this fanciful tale. 

Obviously, Herr Wankermeister is sharing whatever swill of the week the
gonadotoxic Giwer-swine is guzzling. The fallacy of this particular denier
lie has already been exposed by Mr. McCarthy or the duplicitous sham it
is:
 

=============================================================================
In article , jamie@voyager.net
(Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> What you are about to read is a long and crystal-clear demonstration of
> the goal of Holocaust-denial, or Holocaust "revisionism."  It has taken
> me a while to prepare all this documentation, but I feel that it's worth
> the effort, because rarely have I seen such a perfectly obvious
> demonstration of what the goal of revisionism is.
> 
> That goal is:  to fool you.
> 
> Normally, when I prepare a refutation of some piece of Holocaust-denial,
> I start with their lies and work my way around to the truth.  Normally,
> I feel that doing this will help people recognize the process that's
> involved in evaluating and analyzing their lies.  Those of us who would
> remember the Holocaust can only do so much to oppose the endless stream
> of lies, and it is more important to know the _process_ of refutation
> than the refutations of the individual lies themselves.
> 
> This time, however, I'm going to start with the truth and wend my way
> through the various lies.  My reasons will become clear.
> 
> Rather than "lies," I should perhaps say "half-truths."  I've found that
> Holocaust-deniers prefer to take statements out of context, to twist
> their meaning slightly, rather than to actually make up facts out of
> thin air.
> 
> This is the history of one such half-truth:  a single paragraph of
> distortion, tracked over the last seven months
> 
> I said I'd start with the truth, and here is the truth.  At the famous
> Nuremberg trials, on June 21st, 1946, the United States' Chief of
> Counsel, Mr. Justice Jackson, was cross-examining the war criminal
> Albert Speer.  This is documented in the so-called "blue series,"
> offically titled _Trial of the Major War Criminals_, Volume 16,
> pp. 529-530:
> 
>    MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:  And certain experiments were also conducted
>    and certain researches conducted in atomic energy, were they not?
> 
>    SPEER:  We had not got as far as that, unfortunately, because the
>    finest experts we had in atomic research had emigrated to America,
>    and this had thrown us back a great deal in our research, so that
>    we still needed another year or two in order to achieve any results
>    in the splitting of the atom.
> 
>    MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:  The policy of driving people out who didn't
>    agree with Germany hadn't produced very good dividends, had it?
> 
>    SPEER:  Especially in this sphere it was a great disadvantage to
>    us.
> 
>    MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:  Now, I have certain information, which was
>    placed in my hands, of an experiment which was carried out near
>    Auschwitz and I would like to ask you if you heard about it or knew
>    about it.  The purpose of the experiment was to find a quick and
>    complete way of destroying people without the delay and trouble of
>    shooting and gassing and burning, as it had been carried out, and
>    this is the experiment, as I am advised. A village, a small village
>    was provisionally erected, with temporary structures, and in it
>    approximately 20,000 Jews were put. By means of this newly invented
>    weapon of destruction, these 20,000 people were eradicated almost
>    instantaneously, and in such a way that there was no trace left of
>    them;  that it developed, the explosive developed, temperatures of
>    from 400 to 500 degrees centigrade and destroyed them without
>    leaving any trace at all.
> 
>    Do you know about that experiment?
> 
>    SPEER:  No, and I consider it utterly improbable.  If we had such a
>    weapon under preparation, I should have known about it.  But we did
>    not have such a weapon.  It is clear that in chemical warfare
>    attempts were made on both sides to carry out research on all the
>    weapons one could think of, because one did not know which party
>    would start chemical warfare first.
> 
>    MR. JUSTICE JACKSON:  The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon
>    were exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in
>    the war?
> 
>    SPEER:  That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war.
>    From August, or rather June or July 1944 on I very often went to the
>    front.  I visited about 40 front-line divisions in their sectors and
>    could not help seeing that the troops, just like the German people,
>    were given hopes about a new weapon coming, new weapons and
>    wonder-weapons which, without requiring the use of soldiers, without
>    military forces, would guarantee victory.  In this belief lies the
>    secret why so many people in Germany offered their lives, although
>    common sense told them that the war was over.  They believed that in
>    the near future this new weapon would arrive.
> 
> Justice Jackson's line of questioning was to analyze the mentality of
> the German people and the German troops throughout the war.  In this
> cross-examination, he was interested in the techniques of Nazi internal
> propaganda, and what role it played in the Nazi committment to fighting
> the war until the very end, to fighting "total war."
> 
> In other words, he indulged in this line of questioning about "atomic
> energy" and the "experiment near Auschwitz" in order to ascertain that
> they _were_ propaganda stories, and to ascertain _why_ such propaganda
> was being spread.
> 
> In March of 1995, Don Van Handel (donvh@aol.com) posted an article to
> Usenet called "Fact File No. 4."  In this so-called "Fact File," we saw
> a number of quotations from the "blue series," all taken out of context
> in an effort to give the wrong impression.  Here is the "setup" for the
> various quotations:
> 
>    Note: The fact file series is intended to present facts of history,
>    free from the polemics and misinformation so often presented in this
>    medium.Hopefully the facts contained herein will serve the cause of
>    truth in history.
>    
>    Note to educators and students:  Fact File no. 4 presents actual
>    excerpts from the Nuremberg Trial Transcripts. The Nuremberg Trials
>    documented countless Nazi atrocities including the now infamous gas
>    chambers. What most people do not realize is that many of the claims
>    documented at Nuremberg are no longer accepted by any reasonable
>    historians. Many of these "atrocities" have simply been
>    forgotten about. To many, these claims are nothing but a product of
>    allied war-time propaganda and post-war hysteria.
> 
> (Mr. Van Handel's point was that, because the Nuremberg prosecutors were
> wrong about these various Nazi atrocities, they were therefore wrong
> about the entire Holocaust. Specious reasoning, at best.)
> 
> The Jackson/Speer cross-examination was one of the quotations, given in
> bastardized form:
> 
>    IMT XVI - Mr. Justice Jackson: And certain experiments were also
>    conducted and certain researches conducted in atomic energy... An
>    experiment... was carried out near Auschwitz ... The purpose of the
>    experiment was to find a quick and complete way of destroying people
>    without the delay and trouble of shooting and gassing and burning,
>    as it had been carried out, and this is the experiment, as I am
>    advised.  A village, a small village was provisionally erected, with
>    temporary structures, and in it approximately 20,000 Jews were put. 
>    By means of this newly invented weapon of destruction, these 20,000
>    people were eradicated almost instantaneously, and in such a way
>    that there was no trace.
> 
> As you can see, the cross-examination testimony has been _so_ thoroughly
> mangled that it's not even evident that Mr. Jackson is examining a
> defendant -- it's presented as a monologue!
> 
> The entire section was carefully and selectively edited, to make it
> appear that Mr. Jackson was presenting a "claim documented at Nuremberg"
> about a wartime atrocity, instead of merely cross-examining a witness as
> to Nazi propaganda techniques.
> 
> And everything that might give away the fact that Mr. Jackson was
> _questioning_, not _accusing_, was carefully edited out. The ellipses in
> the passage above represent the following bits of text which might have
> given it away:
> 
>    1. "...were they not?"
>    2. "Now, I have certain information, which was placed in my
>        hands, of..."
>    3. "...and I would like to ask you if you heard about it or
>        knew about it."
> 
> There is obviously no way that someone could transcribe the passage from
> its source and _accidentally_ leave out all these phrases, so this is
> clearly a deliberate attempt to mislead the reader.  That's nothing new
> in Holocaust-denial;  Don Van Handel is simply one of the latest in a
> long line of deliberate falsifiers and "creative editors."  But how Greg
> Raven and Bradley Smith reacted to being told about this fraud turns out
> to be very interesting.
> 
> This article was first replied to by Ken McVay, shortly after it was
> posted,  on March 14th of this year. He responded to most of the "Fact
> File," including this section, to which his response was:
> 
>    You omitted Justice Jackson's question to Speer, and Speer's
>    response. Was there a reason you did that? (Jackson followed the
>    above comment with the question "Do you know about that
>    experiment?", to which Speer replied, "No, and I consider it utterly
>    improbable. If we had had such a weapon under preparation, I should
>    have known about it. But we did not have such a weapon.")
>    
>    Do you have further evidence which demonstrates that Mr. Speer was
>    not telling the truth?
>    
>    Is there some reason you neglected to include the rest of the
>    exchange between Jackson and Speer?
>    
>    Jackson: The reports, then, of a new and secret weapon were
>    exaggerated for the purpose of keeping the German people in the war?
>    
>    Speer: That was the case mostly during the last phase of the war...
> 
> Ken's article, as far as I can tell from my archives, received no
> further discussion.  (Mr. McVay's responses to most of the rest of Mr.
> Van Handel's article, though good points, won't be gone into here.)
> 
> Note especially that no further discussion from Greg Raven or any other
> Holocaust-denier was to be found.
> 
> Within a month of this being posted, Greg Raven had converted it into
> HTML format and made it available at his web site.
> 
> Fast-forward three months.
> 
> On July 19th, I sent email to Greg Raven concerning errors at his web
> site.  Since Mr. Raven has made it known that he deletes email copies of
> Usenet articles, I made sure to give my email the subject line:
> 
>    not from Usenet -- request to abide by your promise
> 
> I began this email by noting that Mr. Raven's home page contained the
> following promise:
> 
>    If you find material on this Web site that is untrue, please tell
>    me and I will change it.
> 
> And I said:
> 
>    I am hereby telling you.
> 
> I then proceeded to identify fifteen errors on his web site.  Among them
> was the "creative editing" quoted above.  (The other fourteen errors I
> identified won't be gone into here.)
> 
> I did not explain _why_ they were errors;  I merely noted that they
> _were_ errors.  I had introduced the email by saying:
> 
>    If you don't believe me at my word (and I don't expect that you
>    will), please simply respond to this email and I will be happy to
>    explain each falsehood to you.
> 
> This email elicited no response.
> 
> A few days later, Mr. Raven posted an unrelated article to Usenet.
> I responded to this on July 19th by noting that, since he had time to
> post to the net, I hoped he would have time to make good on his web
> site's promise to change any material which was false.  I noted that my
> earlier email had been ignored, and reposted that email, again listing
> the fifteen errors.  I sent a copy of this article to Mr. Raven in
> email. No response.
> 
> On July 28th, a Usenetter suggested that I post my proof that each of
> these fifteen items was in fact in error.
> 
> On August 4th, I did just that.  In a 400-line Usenet article, I went
> through each item and posted an explanation of why it was an error. For
> the Jackson/Speer item, I posted the full text from the "blue series,"
> with the parts omitted by Don Van Handel and Greg Raven in all-caps.
> This, too, was emailed to Mr. Raven.
> 
> No response.
> 
> Fast-forward two months.
> 
> On October 16th, I sent email to Bradley R. Smith.  In this email,
> I wrote:
> 
>    Browsing your web site, I notice you have some of what Mr. Raven
>    dubbed the "fact files."
>    
>    I just thought you might like to know that they contain several
>    "facts" which are questionable at best.  For example, possibly the
>    most ridiculous "fact" in the bunch is the second quoted paragraph
>    on this page:
>    
>    
>    
>    I invite you to look up the source for Mr. Jackson's supposed
>    comments about "atomic energy."  You will find that the ellipses
>    obscure some very important details!
>    
>    Since you presumably are interested in promoting the truth on your
>    web site, not half-truths, I thought I'd let you know about this
>    mistake. I tipped off Mr. Raven to the ridiculous ellipses in that
>    paragraph quite a while ago (a month or two, it seems), but I never
>    heard back from him. I hope you are more honest than Mr. Raven.
> 
> The very next day, I heard back, not from Bradley Smith, but from a
> fellow by the name of Richard Widmann, who has been maintaining the
> "thought crimes" section of Bradley Smith's web site.  Mr. Widmann began
> by writing:
> 
>    I have been requested by Bradley Smith to examine the following
>    passage which has been posted to his web-site to verify its
>    accuracy.  It seems that this passage has been questioned by you
>    when posted by Greg Raven.
>    
>    [...]
>    
>    It is your contention that the ellipses distort the meaning of
>    this passage.
> 
> Mr. Widmann did not comment one way or the other on whether he _agreed_
> with this contention of mine.  However, he did say:
> 
>    In its entirety I have found the following in IMT vol. XVI.  I will
>    see that the complete quote is forwarded to Greg Raven.  I have no
>    way to change Greg's text.  However, I do not see any reason that
>    Greg should be opposed to doing so.
> 
> I responded to Mr. Widmann that evening, in a piece of email I Cc'd to
> both Bradley Smith and Greg Raven.  I summarized the situation briefly,
> and appealed to Mr. Widmann and Mr. Smith to encourage Mr. Raven to
> correct the error:
> 
>    I understand that you have no way of changing Mr. Raven's text.
>    However, if you could drop him a note, Mr. Smith, and ask him to
>    consider correcting the quote on his site as well, I would be
>    grateful.  As I'm sure you will agree, you would be serving not only
>    me, but the truth.
>    
>    And then, if you felt like it, you could ask him to address the
>    other fourteen errors which I identified over two months ago.
>    Open Debate and all.
> 
> I received no response to this email from Mr. Widmann, Mr. Smith, or
> Mr. Raven.
> 
> However! -- and here is the exciting part! -- Mr. Raven has changed the
> web page!  On the 20th or 21st, Mr. Raven changed the page to provide a
> bit more context for the quotation.  Mr. Smith updated his page, too,
> shortly thereafter, apparently copying the text from Mr. Raven.
> 
> The new quotation does not, however, provide _enough_ context, and this
> is what I find to be interesting.
> 
> Here is the new "Jackson/Speer" paragraph, as it appears on Greg
> Raven's web site today:
> 
>    " MR. JUSTICE JACKSON: Now, I have certain information, which was
>    placed in my hands, of an experiment which was carried out near
>    Auschwitz and I would like to ask you [Albert Speer] if you heard
>    about it or knew about it. The purpose of the experiment was to find
>    a quick and complete way of destroying people without the delay and
>    trouble of shooting and gassing and burning, as it had been carried
>    out, and this is the experiment, as I am advised. A village, a small
>    village was provisionally erected, with temporary structures, and in
>    it approximately 20,000 Jews were put. By means of this newly
>    invented weapon of destruction, these 20,000 people were eradicated
>    almost instantaneously, and in such a way that there was no trace."
>    IMT XVI - p.529.
> 
> Note what has been done here.  The ellipses have been removed, but there
> is still not enough context presented to tell what the quote is about. 
> It is obvious that Mr. Raven's intent is not to educate his readers as
> to the fact that, on June 21st, 1946, Mr. Justice Jackson was trying to
> ascertain the extent of the Nazi committment to "total war," and Albert
> Speer's involvement in and knowledge of this committment.
> 
> No, Mr. Raven is _still_ trying to make people think that Justice
> Jackson actually believed that this propaganda was true.  And Bradley
> Smith's text at the corresponding page on his web site is exactly the
> same.
> 
> This, ladies and gentlemen, is the goal of revisionism.  First of all,
> revisionism does not listen to people like me.  As Mr. Raven wrote to
> me, in the last email he has written me, in February:
> 
>    One of main reasons why I spend so little time responding to you (I
>    rarely even bother to read your posts) is that for some reason you
>    seem incapable of getting any facts straight.
> 
> What he means, of course, is that I so _often_ get my facts straight.
> Ken McVay posted the truth about the Jackson/Speer testimony mere days
> after the deceitful "Fact File" was posted, and I continued to remind
> Mr. Raven of the error in the months following.  Mr. Raven found this
> truth to be uncomfortable, and so ignored me.  As he has been ignoring
> everything I've written to him in the last eight months.
> 
> However, when the revisionist Richard Widmann contacted him, he
> grudgingly accepted that the original quote was misleading enough to
> merit a correction.
> 
> Was Ken McVay thanked by Mr. Raven for doing the basic research
> necessary to correct the misleading "editing"?  Was I thanked?  No.
> 
> Was Ken McVay thanked by Mr. Smith?  Was I thanked?  No.
> 
> Was Mr. Widmann thanked by them?  Well, I don't know.  I'd ask, but none
> of them has returned my last email, so I don't think I'd get an answer.
> 
> Has there been any acknowledgement of the fact that Mr. Raven and Mr.
> Smith have had, on their web sites, material that was written with the
> _deliberate_ intent to _misinform_ readers, material that had the gall
> to preface itself by saying that it was "free from the polemics and
> misinformation so often presented in this medium"?  No.
> 
> Have Mr. Raven and Mr. Smith taken the other "fact files" in the series
> off their web sites, while they investigate them for similar half-truths
> and deliberately misleading propaganda?  No.
> 
> Did Mr. Raven, having seen that I was correct to criticize one error on
> his web site, then decide that it might be prudent to examine my
> analysis of the other fourteen errors I pointed out?  No.
> 
> Is he then keeping his promise, on his home page, that untrue material
> will be changed?  No.
> 
> And, finally, did Mr. Raven and Mr. Smith put in enough context in the
> "new and improved" quotation -- context sufficient to clue the reader in
> to the fact that Mr. Jackson was seeking information about Nazi
> propaganda and not making false accusations against the Nazis?  No.
> 
> What they did was to put in a bit more context.  Not enough to make it
> honest.  Not enough to let the reader know the truth.  But a bit more.
> Just enough to eliminate the ellipses, really:  enough to make it _look_
> a bit less suspicious at first glance.
> 
> Meanwhile, my battle to bring some sort of accountability and
> back-and-forth discussion to the world-wide web continues.  You've just
> been reading about one effort to correct a half-truth;  here's the
> beginning of another.  On the 19th, I sent the following email to Greg
> Raven, and Cc'd it to Bradley Smith and Ernst Zuendel, because of their
> interest in "open debate" on the net. As they say, "here we go again":
> 
>    I just noticed a few minutes ago that your web site now includes a
>    conversion of a Usenet article by "Yggdrasil":
>    
>    
>    
>    As you probably know, I responded to this article about a week after
>    it was written.  It seems disingenuous that you publish the article,
>    but fail to mention that it uses quotes out of context to change
>    their meaning, as I made clear with my reply back in March. 
>    Especially considering that you have accused _me_ of
>    "mischaracterizing" a quote from _you_ (but have failed to explain
>    what you meant).  If you feel so strongly about mischaracterized
>    quotations, why do you promote them at your web site?
>    
>    In any case, I have converted my response, the same one I posted
>    back in March 1995, and have put _it_ on the web.  I, of course,
>    have linked back to your web page with the original article.
>    
>    I now ask you to aid the process of open discussion by adding a link
>    from "Yggdrasil"'s article to my response. To do otherwise is to
>    cheat your readers.
>    
>    I am also sending this email to Bradley Smith, whose organization,
>    the Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust, will surely be in
>    favor of such cross-linking. I am also sending this email to Ernst
>    Zuendel, with whom Nizkor has been discussing the possibility of
>    such cross-links.
>    
>    A response is requested.
>    
>    
> 
> Needless to say, no response was received (except from Bradley Smith,
> who asked me to please not send him any more email which wasn't directly
> related to him -- apparently the issue of open debate on the web is not
> interesting to him, despite the name of his organization being
> "Committee for Open Debate On the Holocaust").  I don't really expect to
> make any more progress with this pageful of half-truths and misused
> quotations than I did with the "Fact File No. 4" page, but I will
> continue to try.
> 
> I encourage the reader to examine Greg Raven's and Bradley Smith's web
> sites, to verify that the deliberately-misleading paragraph in the
> deliberately-misleading "fact file" is still present:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And remember that the goal of those web pages, like all the others on
> those sites, like all Holocaust-denial propaganda, is to fool you.
> 
> Why else would Greg Raven ignore my corrections for months, and then,
> even after he effectively admitted that I had been right all along,
> fail to add enough context to allow the reader to discern that Justice
> Jackson was not charging Speer with a crime, but rather inquiring about
> Nazi propaganda techniques?
> 
> Why else would Greg Raven and Bradley Smith continue to use the "Fact
> Files" of Don Van Handel, who, they have effectively admitted, wrote
> those files with the intent to deceive?
> 
> Posted to alt.revisionism, and emailed to Messrs. Raven, Smith,
> Zuendel, Van Handel, and McVay.
> -- 
>  Jamie McCarthy  jamie@voyager.net jrm0@aol.com  http://www.kzoo.edu/~k044477/
>  I speak only for myself.            Co-Webmaster of http://www.almanac.bc.ca/
>  Unless otherwise specified, I consider pro-"revisionism" email public domain.

=============================================================================

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 19:24:21 PST 1996
Article: 77587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: question for D. Keren
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 18:34:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References: <550onv$78h@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <550onv$78h@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> Recently, Daniel Keren wrote:
> 
> >Gaskammern.jpg
> >Construction document which mentions a "gas chamber"
> >(Gaskammer) in Krema no. 5 in Birkenau.
> 
>   What's this document? I've take a look and the image is very pale,
>  nowere I saw the word 'gaskammer' in the typewritten part and the
>  handwritten part is illisible. If you don't have an equivalent that
>  you can send here, preferably in english but at least typewritten,
>  it's hard to call that a proof of anything whatsover.

Mr. Beaulieu you might look at the timeheet for March 2, 1943, from Riedel
& Sons, who were involved in the construction of Kremas IV and V. Item
five (5) on the timesheet one can PLAINLY AND CLEARLY see:

"...betonieren im Gasskammer" [concrete in gas chamber] 

cf. Pressac, _Technique_; Photo 25, p.446. 

And again, on the daily report for March 2, 1943, one can PLAINLY AND
CLEARLY see:

"und Fußboden betonieren im Gasskammer" [and concrete floor in gas chamber]

cf. Pressac, _Technique_; p.447, Photo 28 [line 28] and Photo 30 [line 1] p.450.

If your eyes can not discern this, Mr. Beaulieu, I would suggest that a)
you are wearing blinders or b) that you need to see an optometrist. 

Of course, given your prejudices and track record of Holocaust denial, Mr.
Beaulieu, there is the distinct possibility that you could be lying
through your teeth in order to prevericate and put forward puerile
canards.

Needless to say, the last would suprise me not at all....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 22:54:44 PST 1996
Article: 77595 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Big brother Mcvay is watching
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:31:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <553lk0$df0@news.sas.ab.ca> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , karlpov@access4.digex.net (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

> intphase@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () writes:
> 
> >KEN MCVAY - A PROFILE
> 
> This, from a yellow-bellied sack of shit who lacks the guts to post
> under his own name. By golly, the same yellow-bellied sack of shit who
> lacks even the guts to keep posting under the same pseudonym....

It's just jealousy, Mr. Power. The white-power ranger clique simply
gnashes their teeth and turns green with envy when regarding Mr. McVay's
success. (At _their_ expense, lest we forget!) They can't _stand_ the
thought that _one_ man could rout them so! Ergo, being impotent little
putzes they respond with infantile rubbish. 

All of which simply highlights how bad they are hurting. 

Now _that's_ a happy thought, yes? :-)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 22:54:45 PST 1996
Article: 77599 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Were there showerheads in L.1?
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:47:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References:  <54mvht$7in@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> (Subject line changed.)
> 
> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> > >I assume you can explain how Pressac found 
> > >the places where the dummy
> > >showerheads were attached to the ceiling of L.1.
> 
> > Actually, I cannot explain how Pressac found
> > the places where "dummy showerheads were 
> > attached to the ceiling" because I looked
> > for them and COULD NOT find them.  
> > There were some wooden blocks set into the
> > ceiling (this is a never before printed or posted 
> > item) but Pressac is not clear if he bases
> > his claims on these wooden blocks.  He
> > neglected to take any pictures.
> 
> On the contrary -- he did take pictures of the ceiling of L.1 and
> he points out the place where the wooden blocks were attached to
> the ceiling.  The showerheads were attached to those wooden blocks,
> which you admit exist(ed).
> 
> I don't have a page number handy, because I don't have the book.

Cf. _Technique_; pp. 353-354,488. 

> But if you've read it, surely you remember the photo composite
> showing the ceiling, with the marks where the wooden blocks were
> attached pointed out...?

Indeed. There are two other photos (Documents 18 and 19) that identify the
wooden blocks. The caption to the photos reads:

"Two photographs of the accessible part of the ruins of the east side of
the ceiling of Leichenkeller I of Krematoriun II in the region of
supporting pillar I/6. Access is at point <> on drawing 2197. Only the
wooden blocks are still visible, each being at the intersection of a line
running longitutinally between the central pillers and the east wall and a
perpendicular running between two central pillars. 24 dummy showeheads
were fitted." (Ibid. p.488.) 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 28 22:54:46 PST 1996
Article: 77601 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Krema I's gas chamber (WAS: Re: IRVING TO CHALLENGE...)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:24:04 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <3275707B.12F6@kaiwan.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3275707B.12F6@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

[snip]

> Whether or not the building was a gas chamber, virtually everyone agrees
> that several features such as the outer walls are from the original
> structure. Thus, the HCN residues could very well be from delousings
> conducted in the building.

Mr. Raven, your evidence that delousings were carried out in the morgue of
Krema I is what, exactly? I find such unsubstantiated speculation amusing,
considering that Auschwitz I had several disinfestation gas chambers on
hand at the time. None of which, to _my_ knowledge, were in Krema I.
_That_ particular gas chamber- the converted morgue -was used, by all
accounts, for mass homicidal gassings. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 00:27:47 PST 1996
Article: 77605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: He snatched the baby away and threw it into a blazing oven
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 18:40:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

³It often happened that when the doors were opened too early some of the
people were still alive. Once, to the horror of the men in the
_Sonderkommando_, a tiny baby was found still sucking at it¹s mother¹s
breast. It had probably been sucking all the time and so had not inhaled
the deadly fumes. S.S. man Wagner was furious. He snatched the baby away
and threw it into a blazing oven.²

Hart, _Return to Auschwitz_ (ISBN 0-689-70637-5), p.122-123.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 00:27:48 PST 1996
Article: 77611 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another Holocaust Peculiarity
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:26:16 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 65
Message-ID: 
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In article <5520r4$1t@is05.micron.net>, kurtstel@micron.net wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
> 
> ># Also, Konrad Morgen testified over 200 Germans were
> ># convicted for mistreating Jewish inmates,
> 
> >Dr. Morgen is not a witness you want to use. He testified at
> >length about the mass murder in the gas chambers, both at
> >Nuremberg and at the 1963 Frankfurt Trial. He did try to
> >stop the *arbitrary* murders in Auschwitz, by trying to
> >prosecute Grabner for killing 2,000 people that *he was
> >not supposed to kill*, as they were murdered *outside
> >the scope of the extermination operation*, as Morgen
> >said. Anyway, Mueller stopped all proceedings against
> >Grabner.
> 
> Look at the Hololocauster Keren calling a witness invalid!  

Er, Herr Wankermeister, Dr. Keren suggested that _you_, being the ignorant
denier you are, might not wish to use Dr. Morgen as a witness _because_ he
_also_ testified to the mass murder of Jews in the gas chambers at
Auschwitz! This by no means suggests that Dr. Keren finds Dr. Morgen's
testimony invalid becuse of this! Just the opposite, I'm sure... 

Geez, whaddamoron! 

>That is quite fine. You can eliminate Morgen's testimony for being
>contradictory. 

On the contrary, Herr Wankermeister, I think Dr. Morgen's testimony is
quite consistant! I'm sure Dr. Keren would agree. By all means, let us use
his testimony! Especially the part about how people were mass murdered in
the gas chambers. 

> Then Hoess' precious (and worthless) testimony will be also the first to go. 

Still yapping about Ho"ss's memoirs, I see. Tsk tsk. That Ho"ss laid out
the details of the externination pogrom for posterity _really_ jerks your
chain, it seems, Herr Wankermeister! Good. Curs like you _need_ to have
their chains yanked rather regularly. Let's you Nazi swine know your place
in life. 

> Invalidating witnesses only serves the detriment of the Holocaust.   

And who is "invalidaring" witnesses, Herr Wankermeister? Why nobody but
lil' ol' you in your useless desperation to cling to you hate-filled Nazi
dogmatism. 

Poor rabid anti-Semite. Tsk tsk. Poor pathetic Nazi wannabe. All foaming
at the mouth and no place to go....

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 00:27:48 PST 1996
Article: 77632 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B refute this deniers
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 19:10:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References:  <54qfso$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <54qfso$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> 
> (The usual tripe)
> > 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >>>>
> This guy could be given evidence on a silver platter and he'd
> still babble some incomprehensible gibberish.   Gradually it
> was disclosed to me that this man is a fool.

Tsk tsk. Obviously, by mercilessly bludgeoning Herr Schwarzesel with the
truth I have gotten under his thin skin. Pity the lying Nazi apologist
isn't made of sterner stuff. I've seen dog shit with more backbone than
Herr Schwarzesel has....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 08:53:59 PST 1996
Article: 77648 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why So Many Crematoriums?
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:18:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References:  <845510229snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>     <54sm7l$3d7@is05.micron.net> <846408213snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <846408213snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <54sm7l$3d7@is05.micron.net> kurtstel@micron.net "Kurt Stele"
writes:
> 
> > Jeffrey  wrote:
> > 
> > >In article , Mark Van Alstine
> > 
> > >>Auschwitz:  10,000 / 52 = ~192 deaths per muffle. 
> 
> No, it wasn't 52. The Birkenau crematoria replaced the 6 muffles at the main
> camp. There were never more than 46. just a small point.

Actaully, Al, its not clear exactly when Krema I was decommissioned.
Piper, for example, writes, "With the launching of new large crematroria
in Birkenau (Marh-Jume 1943), incineration of bodies in the old
crematorium was discontinued..." PIper then later writes that, "A letter
>from  the Zentralbauleitung to group C of June 28, 1943, indicates that the
capacity for a 24-hour period was estimated at 340 bodies for crematorium
I; 1,440 each for crematorium II and III; and 768 each for crematorium IV
and V. Thus the five crematoria could incinerate 4,765 bodies each day.
This estimate coincided with the guidelines established in 1941 concerning
the capacity of a fice-retort crematorium for prisoners of war, according
to which two bodies could be incinerated in one retort within 30 minutes.
The next month, however, crematorium I was shut down, reducunig the
capacity to 4,415. (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.159, 165-166.)

Pressac puts the decommissioning of Krema a month later: "...At the end of
June, crematorium IV was out of service and crematorium II was stopped. At
the end of July, crematorium I was neutralized at the request of the
Political Department. As for crematorium V, it would not be used after
September because crematoria II (repaired) and III would thereafter 
suffice to 'treat' the daily flow of convoys of Jews." (Ibid. p.236.)

However, Al, either way it is implicit that all 52 muffles were, albeit
for a short time, all simultaneously operational. 

Just a small point....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 08:54:00 PST 1996
Article: 77664 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 20:10:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>  <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>  <5425on$j5t@is05.micron.net>  <32738DF8.E0C@kaiwan.com>
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In article <32738DF8.E0C@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote:

[snip]

> > So, the Nazis, who since 1942 had made systematic efforts to erase all
> > physical evidence of their mass murder of the Jews and others (cf. Aktion
> > 1005), continued this tradition by also erasing the _administrative_
> > evidence of their mass murder as well. Hardly out of character, I would
> > argue....
> 
> This response ignores the fact that the Allies were intercepting Nazi
> communications from Auschwitz (and elsewhere), and so compiled their own
> reports that the Nazis could not have destroyed. These reports do not
> show massive numbers of Jews (or anyone else) being murdered at
> Auschwitz or elsewhere.

Praytell, Mr. Raven, exactly which Nazi reports were the Allies
intercepting from Auschwitz? How many were intercepted? During what
period(s)? Not to mention, what were the contents of these intercepted
Nazi reports and where might they be found, exactly?

Don't be shy, Mr. Raven! Inquiring minds want to know!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 08:54:01 PST 1996
Article: 77674 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: One More Time: Holocaust Proof]
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 21:15:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
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References: <327570C5.6CAA@kaiwan.com>
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In article <327570C5.6CAA@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

[snip]

> Kathleen Mulhern wrote:
> > 
> > I'll try this one more time, and since I have already included portions of
> > this book in responses and they have, mysteriously, never recieved a
> > reply, I'll try it this one last time:
> > 
> > The book: _Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present_.  The authors: Deborah Dwork
> > and Robert Jan van Pelt.  The publisher:W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 500
> > Fifth Avenue, New York, NY  10110.  Copyright 1996 by the authors.
> > 
> > Page 222: "Design of a Degesch Zyklon B gas chamber.  Osobyi Archive,
> > Moscow, coll. 502/1, file 322.  The tin with Zyklon B (5) is opened by a
> > lever (3) connected to a tin opener (4); the Zyklon B crystals fall on a
> > tray (6) and are heated by a hot-air blower (9) to facilitate
> > evaporation."
> > (snip)
> 
> Interesting description of the introduction of gas in a delousing
> chamber...

Not only is the description interesting, Mr. Raven, but so is the drawing
of gas chamber.  

> ...but unfortunately this contradicts so-called testimonies of how
> the Zyklon B was introduction into the alleged homicidal gas chambers.

And? Are you _really_ suggesting, Mr. Raven that _because_ Zyklon B was
tossed down the Zyklon B introduction columns in L.Keller 1, and through
gas-tight portals in Krema IV and V (and the bunkers), that this
_requires_ that Zyklon B be administered the _same_ way in the 19 small
heated disinfesting gas chambers of the Stammlager in Auschwitz I?

If so, I guess this means that because some German bombers carried their
bombs in a vertical position that this meant USAAF bombers, which carried
them in the horizontal position, didn't really exist (or couldn't
_possibly_ drop bombs), and therefore Dresden wasn't wasn't really bombed?




> We know the delausing chambers existed, and we know how they functioned.
> We are still awaiting proof of the existence of a Nazi gas chamber for
> homicidal purposes.

No, Mr. Raven, YOU are simply denying the Holocaust. Being a
"professional" denier, you do so for a (meager) profit it seems. The rest
of the world, sans Nazi apologists, Nazi wannabes, anti-Semites, and
duplicitous con men,  have acknowledged the historical reality of the
Holocaust for decades.  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 12:00:53 PST 1996
Article: 77701 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 12:18:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
Message-ID: 
References: <54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54spvq$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd9$2iti$3@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54spvq$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd9$2iti$3@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3273D8F3.6595@kaiwan.com> <553ukv$trm$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
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In article <553ukv$trm$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <3273D8F3.6595@kaiwan.com> - Greg Raven Sun, 27
> Oct 1996 13:49:40 -0800 writes:
> :>
> :>Gord McFee wrote:
> :>> Which has absolutely what to do with what?  I have seen Hoess' memoirs in
> :>> German, English and French, and the three versions are the same. 
This is the
> :>> same Hoess BTW who talks openly in all three versions of his
beatings by the
> :>> English, his deprivation by the Poles, yet says he never expected to be
> :>> treated as well as he was in a Polish prison.
> :>
> :>The 1993 (1994?) version of Hoess' writings, under the title "Death
> :>Dealer," contained at least one passage not found in previous editions.
> :>This edition, brought out by Prometheus Press, is now available through,
> :>I believe De Capo Press.
> :>
> :>Now you can see what you have been missing.
> 
> Gads, I feel honored.  One of your rare visits and I get two messages.  Cool
> it, Greg, or I'll be accused of conspiring with the enemy.  :-)
> 
> In answer to your point, what _was_ your point?  As I said, I have read the
> memoirs in three languages and they are the same.

Oh, Mr. Raven is talking about ONE paragraph on page 38 of _Death Dealer_
that reads: 

< begin quote> 

"Jews who were taken to the camp by order of Eichmann's office- RSHA IV B4
-were designated as "Transport-Juden." The reports that announced the
arrival had the following notice: "This transport is to be included in the
given orders and is subject to special treatment [Sonderbehandlung - SB]."
The Jews previous to this, i.e. before the orders for extermination were
issueed, were labled "Schutzhaft [protective custody], or Jews who
belonged to one of the other catagories of prisoners.

 

Of course, my copy of _KL Auschwitz_, on page 123, reads: 



"Transport Juden" (Jews from transports), thus had all Jews been
designated who were taken to the camp from Eichmann's Office - RSHA IV B4.
The reports announcing the arrival bore the notice: "Thr transports
corrospoonds [sic] to the given instructions and is to be subjected to
special treatment (Sonderbehandling - SB)!" All other Jews of earlier
times, that is before the extermination orders were given, were called
"Schutzhaft Juden" (Jews in protective custody) or Jews belonging to other
catagories of prisoners."



I'm sure Mr. Raven was _trying_ his best to make a point here. Maybe he
was trying to point out that Jews transported by Eichman's department,
RSHA IV B4, were designated as "subject to special treatment" and sent to
Auschwitz to be murdered? And that the Soviet/Bolshevik/Jewish World
Konspiracy supressed this "vital" paragraph to decieve the world and hide
the fact that the Nazis were brutal cold-blooded murderers who
methodically shipped Jews to their deaths with clockwork precision? 

Er, what's wrong with this picture?  };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct 29 14:56:46 PST 1996
Article: 77712 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 23:31:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54spvq$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd9$2iti$3@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><54akkc$1q3e$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54qf9v$2ml@juliana.sprynet.com> <54rrl4$2lbs$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <54spvq$3d7@is05.micron.net> <550hd9$2iti$3@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <3273D8F3.6595@kaiwan.com> <553ukv$trm$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>  <32761C48.1666@kaiwan.com>
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In article <32761C48.1666@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

[snip]

> Although Höss attached no date to this shift in policy, it clearly
> contradicts his characterization of a supposedly secret meeting in
> Berlin with Heinrich Himmler in the summer of 1941. 

Really? In what way, exactly, Mr. Raven? 

> At this meeting, Himmler allegedly assigned Höss a key role in the 
> forthcoming mass extermination of the Jews, with more details soon to come 
> from Adolf Eichmann, at that time an SS Major of the Reich Security Police 
> (RSHA), in charge of the office dealing with Jewish affairs. 

Yes, the meeting, according to Ho"ss, took place sometime in the summer of
1941. 

> Höss claimed that Eichmann visited him at Auschwitz a short time later, and 
> the two of them spoke of the approximate numbers of Jews to be exterminated, 
> how to carry out the extermination, and where the first exterminations were to
> be performed (a building that is now referred to as Bunker 1). 

Yes.

> Höss further claimed that the first transports of Jews to be exterminated
> arrived sometime between September 1941 and January 1942, and were
> immediately gassed. This discrepancy may explain the omission of the
> passage from other editions of the memoirs.

Mr. Raven, how exactly does this contradict the Berlin meeting with
Himmler in the _summer_ of 1941? So far your "contradictions" appear to be
figments of your imagination. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 07:29:25 PST 1996
Article: 77764 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 22:50:27 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 58
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>  <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>  <5425on$j5t@is05.micron.net>  <32738DF8.E0C@kaiwan.com> <32780c9b.81265917@news.zilker.net> <327619FB.6B43@kaiwan.com>
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In article <327619FB.6B43@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Mike Curtis wrote:
> > 
> > Greg Raven  wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >This response ignores the fact that the Allies were intercepting Nazi
> > >communications from Auschwitz (and elsewhere), and so compiled their own
> > >reports that the Nazis could not have destroyed. These reports do not
> > >show massive numbers of Jews (or anyone else) being murdered at
> > >Auschwitz or elsewhere.
> > >
> > 
> > Is this one of your stop overs to sell books and other material? I
> > notice that you drop by here and make unsupported statements and then
> > when cornered you vanish. Thre months later  you return after the
> > memory cells of your cohorts have burned out you start over.
> > Fascinating, Mr. Raven.
> 
> Thanks for engaging in another personal attack, instead of dealing with
> the issues. 

_What_ issues, Mr. Raven? You've presented nothing but unsubstantiated
assertions. Perhaps is you were to SUPPORT your claims with EVIDENCE and
FACTS there might be some issues to discuss? 

> For better or worse, I don't have the time to devote to
> a.r., unlike some of you. 

Yet you feel perfectly at ease with making rssh and unsubstantiated (not
to mention fallacious) assertions? And when after you make such assertions
you flee? You don't see a problem with this? Interesting. 

> Furthermore, there seems to be something wrong with the delivery of news
at my 
> ISP, as it sometimes takes 5 minutes to post a single message. It is often 
> more trouble than it is worth.

Uh huh. The ol' "My ISP ate my homework" excuse. A favorite among deniers
it seems.

> If, on the other hand, the above message was simply your way of asking
> for a citation, I direct you to "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century," by
> Arthur Butz.

Butz? Uh huh.  And my I direct you do the door, Mr. Raven?
Don't let it hit you on the butt on the way out....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 07:29:26 PST 1996
Article: 77772 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:49:06 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 69
Distribution: world
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In article <556f1m$1jhu$6@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  - mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark
> Van Alstine)Tue, 29 Oct 1996 12:18:42 -0700 writes:
> :>
> :>In article <553ukv$trm$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
> :>McFee) wrote:
> 
> :>
> :>I'm sure Mr. Raven was _trying_ his best to make a point here. Maybe he
> :>was trying to point out that Jews transported by Eichman's department,
> :>RSHA IV B4, were designated as "subject to special treatment" and sent to
> :>Auschwitz to be murdered? And that the Soviet/Bolshevik/Jewish World
> :>Konspiracy supressed this "vital" paragraph to decieve the world and hide
> :>the fact that the Nazis were brutal cold-blooded murderers who
> :>methodically shipped Jews to their deaths with clockwork precision? 
> :>
> :>Er, what's wrong with this picture?  };-> 
> 
> Err...it's looney as hell?  :-)
> 
> I stupidly thought Greg might be interested in a serious discussion on this
> stuff.  I expect Ken McVay is going to slap me silly for being so naive, but
> what the hell, I'm just a kid.  :-)
> 
> My point to him was that I have read the Hoess memoirs and there is no
> discernible difference among the three versions in respect to the fact that he
> revised downward his original estimate of the number of Jews murdered at
> Auschwitz and that he mentioned having been tortured, etc., which, it seemed
> to me, was a silly thing for the Russians and/or the Poles to _torture_ him
> into doing.  That implies the following _imaginary_ dialogue:
> 
> Russian:
> 
> Hoess, I am telling you.  You WILL write that we have tortured you.  Do you
> understand?
> 
> Hoess:
> 
> No, please.  Don't make me do that.
> 
> Russian [to assistant]:
> 
> OK, Comrade.  It is obvious that Herr Hoess needs a little more "convincing". 
> Get the testicle crushers ready.  When we are done torturing him, he will be
> only too happy to say we tortured him.  Ha--ha!!
> 
> Hoess:
> 
> Nein!!!  Nein!!!  Ten!!! Arghh.........
> 
> 

ROTFLMAO! 

Mark

> --
> Gord McFee
> I'll write no line before its time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:55:59 PST 1996
Article: 77810 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Globocnik
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 19:56:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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Gutman, Israel; Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, ISBN 0-02-864527-8
Macmillan Publishing Company, New York. 1990.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

GLOBOCNIK, ODILO (1904-1945), senior SS commander; a principal participant
in the extermination of Polish Jewry. Born in Trieste to an Austrian-Croat
family of minor officials, Globocnik was a contractor by profession. He
joined the Nazi party in Austria in 1931 and the SS in 1934. His illegal
activities on behalf of the party led to a number of short spells of
imprisonment. Before ANSCHLUSS (the annexation of Austria to Germany in
1938), Globocnik was already active in the formation of Nazi factory cells
in the provinces, and in 1936 he was appointed provincial party leader in
Carinthia. He earned rapid promotion in 1938, in March to SS
_Standartenfu"hrer_, and in May to state secretary and _Gauleiter_ of
VIENNA. He lost his position in January 1939 on account of illegal
currency dealings, but was pardoned by Heinrich HIMMLER, and in November
1930 was appointed district _SS- und Polizeifu"hrer_ (SS and Police
Leader) for the Lublin district of Poland and promoted to
SS-_Brigadefu"hrer und Generalmajor_.

In 1941 Himmler entrusted Globocnik with the planning and establishment of
police and SS-fortified strongpoints in Poland, and in 1942, with the
implementation of AKTION REINHARD. For this purpose Globocnik was put in
charge of special SS troops, subordinate only to Himmler. He used the
camps of BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TRABLINKA, and MAJDANEK to carry out a fourfold
task: the exploitation of the Jewish work force, the extermination  of
Jews, the aquisition of the real estate of the murdered Jews, and the
seizure of their valuables and moveable property. More than two million
Jews were killed during Aktion Reinhard, and property to the value of 178
million reichsmarks was seized fro the benifit of the Reich.

In August 1943, as a result of differences with other party and SS
leaders, Globocnik, was transferred to Trieste. He was taken captive by
British troops at the end of the war and committed suicide in May 1945.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:56:00 PST 1996
Article: 77819 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:26:43 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <5566tf$mbh@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Jamie McCarthy wrote 26 Oct 1996 

[snip]

> >I see, so you have evidence that the Nazis 
> >undertook an economic
> >analysis, found that it would be inefficient to 
> >have slave labor, and
> >then went ahead and did it anyway?
> >No, of course not.
> 
> >Have you done an economic analysis yourself,
> >comparing the "bottom line"
> >as the Nazis might have seen it?
> >No, of course you haven't.
>
> Yes I have.  Four weeks of slave labor was not worth
> the price of a train ride from Vilna to Crakow, let alone 
> from Paris. Throw on the cost of the guards, the camp, 
> the disinfectant, the security problems and you have 
> a system that screams "red ink."  

Really, Mr. Allen? Perchance you forgot to include the value of the
victims' possesions that were stolen from them by the Nazis? Given your
uninformed claim that the Nazi pogrom of genocide screamed "red ink," it
appears so! To whit:

"In the bureaucracy one thing at least was certain: the Jews were not
expected back in Germany. In 1942, certainly by 1943, most of them were
dead. The dead Jews left behind them a legacy which was to occupy the
bureaucrats for months and years: personal property, apartments, Jewish
community property, blocked accounts, goods in customs houses, sequestered
securities, firms and real estate still under trusteeship, credits and
debts, pensions, insurance, and inheritance problems. All these odds and
ends, unliquidated expropriations and unfinished business, were now
dropped into the laps of the Finance Ministry's experts." (Hilberg,
_Destruction_, p.300.) 

Furthermore, Mr. Allen, the confiscation of Jewish assets was by no means
limited to Jews in Germany. Rather, it was done in all countries and
territories under Nazi dominion. Take Belgium, for example:

"By the end of 1942, the Aryanizations in Belgium were largely
completed.... The value of sequestered Jewish assets (_u"berwachtes
Judenvermo"gen_) in reichmark is indicated in Table 57. We should hasten
to add that the banks were slow in reporting Jewish accounts; therefore
the amount of cash in the banks - swelled by the proceeds from the sale of
nearly six hundred enterprises - was much greater than the six million
reichmarks indicated in the _Milita"rbefehlshaber's_ report. Nevertheless,
the total deposit ultimately accumulated in Belgium must have fallen far
short of the half-billion figure which was surpassed in Holland.... (Ibid.
p.386.) 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
TABLE 57 / Value of Sequestered Jewish Assets [Ibid. p.386.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   End of 1941            End of 1942
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cash in banks                        none                  6,150,000
Securities and papers                80,000,000           70,650,000
Real estate parcels (2814)           36,000,000           50,000,000
      Total                         116,000,000          126,800,000
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

It should also be remembered that the confiscations of Jewish property
went beyond cash, securities, and real assets. Even the clothes off the
backs of the victims were taken from them: 

"On February 6, 1943, Pohl reported on the texttile _Aktion_.
Apologetically, he pointed out that a very large percentage of the clothes
in the Auschwitz and Lublin depots consisted of rags. The transportation
of the gifts to the East was meeting with difficulties becuase the
_Reichsbahn had closed traffic to the Ukraine (_Transportsperre); however,
the Economy Ministry was negotiating with the Transport Ministry for
allocation of freight cars, since it was in the greatest interest of the
economy to make maximum utilization of old clothes. Up to the time of the
report the following quantities had been delivered: 

           VOMI:                               Freight cars
       Men's clothes                           --+
       Women's clothes                           |
       Children's clothes                        +- 211
       Underwear, etc                            |
                                               --+
           Economy Ministry:
       Men's clothes                           --+
       Women's clothes                           +-  34
       Women's silk underwear                    |
                                               --+
       Rags                                         400
       Bed feathers                                 139
       Women's  hair (3 tons)                         1
       Other salvage                                  5
                                                    ---
          Total                                     781

(Ibid. p. 615.) 

But how did all this affect the SS? Quite handsomely, as it turned out: 

"...Most important of all, the Reichsbank and the Golddiskontbank had to
establish a fund from which the SS could borrow money to finance its
various activities. This loan, known as the Reinhardt fund, infused the SS
industries with new life. The SS combine owed 6,831,279.54 reichsmark to
the SS Savings Bank Association and 1,000,000 reichsmark to the German Red
Cross; these debts could now be repaid. In addition, some money was plowed
into capital expansion. After the conclusion of these arrangements the
dissaproving took the occasion to 'warn' Puhl against visiting the
concentration camps in connection with the credits." (Ibid. p.618.) 

Does this, Mr. Allen sound like a "system that screams 'red ink'?"  I
think not! One can hardly call a "system" that amasses enough money within
a few years to pay back loans totalling nearly 7 BILLION reichsmarks- and
have a _surplus_ for capital expansion too boot -a money losing
"enterprise!" 

> >In short, you expect us to take your word for it 
> >that the cost of guarding the Jews outweighed 
> >whatever reasons the Nazis might have had
> >for imprisoning them, using them as slaves, 
> >and killing them.
>  
>     No, but I do expect you to be able to add.  If you
> do, you can quickly see that the idea of transporting
> somebody 1,000 Km.s to work him to death in
> 6 weeks does not make economic sense.

And I, Mr. Allen, expect you to do some rudimentary _research_ before you
blather your idiocy across the 'Net! Obviously, you don't feel such
obligations as to the _accuracy_ of your claims. Equally as obvious, you
had no _intention_ of researching the issues in the least. Instead, you
simply toss out your prejudices and propaganda like long-dead fish for
sale and hope nobody will notice the stench. 

> [snip]
> >This is insanity, of course.  The Jews were killed 
> >because Nazi ideals on racial purity demanded their 
> >removal or extermination.  And as long
> >as they were going to be killed, they might 
> >as well do a little hard
> >work before they died.
>
> You miss the point.  There is a conflict between 
> the story of easy to build extermination camps
> and the costs of creating a huge guarded city
> like Auschwitz/Birkenau.
>
> There is a conflict between value of 6 weeks
> forced labor and the immense cost of getting that
> slave labor.

No. Mr. Allen, as usual, _you_ have "missed" the point:

"The highest echelons of the SS once estimated the profit generated by the
average concentration camp prisoner. Based on an average prisoner life
expectancy of nine months, the profit totaled 1,431 RM (about $654) per
prisoner after deducting costs of upkeep. The value of money, valuables,
clothing, personal belongings, and teeth of precious metals reached 200 RM
($91) after the costs of burning the body had been deducted. Thus
according to calculations made by the Nazis themselves, the total average
profit from one prisoner, not including the value of the victim's bones,
totaled 1,631 RM ($745)." (Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.262.) 

To get an idea of what this means in regard to Auschwitz, Mr. Allen, the
origional budget that Bischoff submitted for the contruction of Auschwitz
was 8.9 million reichsmark. This was reduced to 7.7 million reichsmark by
the SS head office because the standard labor rates did not apply- the
prisoners were to built the camp for free. (cf. Ibid. p.119.) 

Taking into account _only_ the Hungarian Jews that were murdered by the
Nazis during Aktion Ho"ss- some 393,000 -and keeping in mind that these
victims were (for all practical purpose) murdered on _arrival_, the
plunder per victim would have totaled 200 reichsmark. This means that
nearly 36 MILLION reichsmark would have been generated during Aktion Ho"ss
alone.

I would put to you, Mr. Allen, considering that the budget for Birkenau
was 7.7 million reichsmark (cf. Ibid. p.134), that not only would such
blood money have paid for its contruction, but would have done so for a
_profit_ of over 28 MILLION reichsmark!

And, of course, Mr. Allen, I have not included the _profit_ accrued by the
Nazis from the labor and plunder of the _rest_ of the survivors and
victims who slaved and died at Auschwitz. By the end of 1943 the Nazi's
earnings from slave labor at Auschwitz was 2 million reichsmark per
_month_. Total Nazi earnings from prisoner labor at Auschwitz from
1940-1945 is estimated at 60 MILLION reichsmark. (cf. Ibid. pp.45-46.) 

> > >the problem is doing it secretly, and then disposing of their bodies.
>
> > Exactly!! So combining a labor camp with a death camp does NOT make sense. 

Mr. Allen, it made 60 million reichsmark worth of sense- if it could be
said that such mass murder could possibly have made any sense at all. Not
to mention that the laborers were killed when they were no longer useful
to the Nazis. There was always more prisoners to fill the ranks of the
damned at Auschwitz. 

You also seemed to have overlooked, Mr. Allen, that the primary _labor_
camps were Auschwitz I and III (Monowitz), which were located kilometers
away from the _secluded_ Birkenau extermination camp. Birkenau's seclusion
(and rail access) made it an ideal death factory. Add to this that the
Nazis deceived, cowed, and brutalized their victims at every opportunity,
it is unsuprising then that many prisoners at the Auschwitz complex did
not unequivocably know that Birkenau was an extermination camp- including
prisoners at Birkenau! Holocaust literature is repleat with accounts of
victims _refusing_ to believe the Nazis intended to murder them right up
until they were herded into the gas chambers. 

Such deceptions did not _need_ to be perfect- just good enough, and for
long enough, so that the Nazis could murder as many Jews and others as
they could.

> > Why have 60,000 
> > witnesses to murder and body disposal, especially
> > husbands mothers, etc. particularly concerned with
> > their loved ones who just disappeared "up the ramp"??
> > Does not make any sense.
> 
> >It makes perfect sense if everyone 
> >(or nearly everyone) in the camps is
> >under a death sentence.
> 
>  Earlier you said that 10% of inmates were not killed.  

Mr. Allen, of the 1,300,000 people deported to Auschwitz only about
200,000 survived. (cf. Ibid. p.70.)  Not all who survived were at
Birkenau. In fact, most who survived were _not_ at Birkenau. At the last
roll call held at Birkenau on January 17, 1945, there were only about
14,000 people there. (cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicles_, pp.782-783.) 

> If there were 1,000,000 inmates, how
> many witness does that leave?  

It left 5,800 at Birkenau. That's how many survived to be liberated by the
Red Army on January 27, 1945. But most _didn't_ witness homicidal
gassings. Most _didn't_ witness the ill being injected with phenol shots
to the heart. Most _didn't_ witness executions at the "black wall."  Only
relatively few actually witnessed such things and lived to tell about it.

> No, your story is not consistent.

No, Mr. Allen, Mr. McCarthy's "story" is _quite_ consistant. It is
History. Historians have _consistantly_ agreed, based on the historical
record, that the Holocaust happened and that some 1 million people, mostly
Jews, were murdered at Auschwitz. I think you meant to say it is
_unbelievable_, Mr. Allen. To that I would say as unbelievable as such an
atrocity was, the evidence that the Holocaust happened, that some 12
million people were murdered by the Nazis, cannot be refuted by those
possessing an open mind and a moral conscience.

Sadly to say, Mr. Allen, you possess neither. That is why you deny the
Holocaust. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:56:01 PST 1996
Article: 77824 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: R. Blackmore, public library
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:46:36 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
Message-ID: 
References: <54k1js$30t8$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <55867v$hcf@access5.digex.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55867v$hcf@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <54k1js$30t8$2@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>,
> Gord McFee  wrote:
> >I post the e-mail below that Mr. Blackmore sent me in answer to my
posting the
> >other day.  Readers checking the last line will notice that he gave me
> >permission to post this.  Since my post was public, I believe his answer
> >should be as well.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > always promising to supply the references, but 
> >>pleading
> >>that his book collection was somewhere else, or he didn't have the 
> >>time, or
> >
> >If I say this, it is because it is true, not because of any dissimulation
> >on my part.
> >I own about 40-65 thousand books.  I would think you could appreciate
> >whether I can't find a particular source upon demand.
> 
>     Now this is truly fascinating.  To give people an idea of how many
> books Mr. Blackmore claims to own, the Ann Arbor (MI) public library's web
> site says that the library owns 460,000 books in four locations.  In other
> words, he says his private collection is one-third to one-half the size of
> the average Ann Arbor public library branch.  If he read three books a
> day, it would take him over forty years to get through his collection even
> taking the low number of his range. 
> 
>     Where _do_ you keep those books, Mr. Blackmore?  How much did they
> cost you?  How long did it take you to acquire them?  How many of them
> have you read? 

Indeed! Where _does_ Frau"lien Schwarzesel keep all those books? My own
personal library is a mere few hundred books and it takes up a whole room
of my house and a bookcase at the office! 

Could it be, perhaps, that our dear denier liebchen, being a lying scumbag
Nazi apologist, is guilding the lily here? 

What a thought! Frau"lien Schwarzesel, the EverDenier Kanin´chen.... She
keeps on lying and lying and lying....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:56:02 PST 1996
Article: 77834 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Hoess Testimony BITES THE DUST!!!!
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:20:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <3273D9D5.134C@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:

> Gord McFee wrote:
> > 

[snip]

> > Wrong again, Kurt, but that's par for the course.  The Holocaust doesn't
> > depend on Hoess even a little bit, let alone a lot.  But you knew that.
> 
> Really? Who would you cite as German eyewitnesses to the gassing
> process, then? Hoess, Gerstein, maybe Kramer? Kramer clearly did not see
> the details of any gassing, assuming for the sake of argument that the
> "special action" of which he writes was a gassing (I think it was not).

And your evidence that Kramer "clearly did not see the details of any
gassing" is, Mr Raven? What? No evidence? How unsuprising. 

And your evidence that Kramer did not specifically mean that the "special
action" he participated in _weren't_ homicidal gassings is, Mr. Raven?
What? No evidence? How unsuprising. Especially so that Kramer, at his
trial in Poland, was _most_ specific that the "special actions" were
indeed homicidal gasings. (cf. Fertig, _KL Auschwitz_, pp.223,
223fn-224fn.) 

In other words, Mr. Raven, you are (to put it kindly) speaking about such
things out of ignorance and prejudice. You will, I hope, pardon me for
being unswayed by your unsupported opinions, less than impressive display
of denier dogmatism, and extreme lack of academic discipline? 

Small wonder, is not, Mr. Raven, why you are not taken too seriously? 

> Gerstein was a nut, who left seven (?) different versions of his
> "confession." 

And your evidence that Gerstein "was a nut," is Mr. Raven? Roques' book?
How amusing if so! After reading Roques' book, I can only suggest you be
more sparing in the use of the word "nut" in context with Gerstein! It is
obvious that Roques's analysis was, to put it kindly, in err. Then there's
the afterwards's by Percival. What can one say about such rabid
anti-Semites? (What can one say about a _publisher_ who prints such a
rabid anti-Semite?)  To suggest that Percival is not playing with a full
deck is a gross understatement! 

> Unfortunately, he died before he was able to make them all
> agree with one another.

So you say, Mr. Raven. Or rather, so Roques says. 

> Hoess gives the best detail (including aspects of an alleged homicidal
> gassing that are contrary to the laws of physics and nature).
> 
> It is commonly claimed that Hoess is the best SS witness to the alleged
> homicidal gassings. Without him, who do you have?

Perry Broad and Johan Kramer spring to mind....  Unsuprisingly, they both
confirm (as do Sonderkommando testimony and memoirs)  what Ho"ss wrote.
How interesting, is it not, Mr. Raven?  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:56:03 PST 1996
Article: 77840 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 11:36:30 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <325d7e83.4204398@news.inetport.com> <53da2h$d7q@juliana.sprynet.com> <325e6c0e.2929082@news.inetport.com>  <53jh0r$934@is05.micron.net>  <53ptgp$pc6@is05.micron.net>  <541e28$hqp@is05.micron.net>  <5425on$j5t@is05.micron.net>  <32738DF8.E0C@kaiwan.com> <32780c9b.81265917@news.zilker.net> <327619FB.6B43@kaiwan.com>  <5567a9$hr5@atlas.uniserve.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5567a9$hr5@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
Ostrov) wrote:

> In , mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark
> Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <327619FB.6B43@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:
> 
> >> If, on the other hand, the above message was simply your way of asking
> >> for a citation, I direct you to "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century," by
> >> Arthur Butz.
> 
> >Butz? Uh huh.  And my I direct you do the door, Mr. Raven?
> >Don't let it hit you on the butt on the way out....
> 
> Well, maybe you shouldn't be too hasty, Mark.  It occurs to me that
> given how little it touches on reality - and  the high esteem in which
> it is apparently held by Mr. Raven and others of his ilk -  perhaps
> Butz' "work" is in line for _nomination_ as the "Hoax" of the
> twentieth century.  Mind you, Butz does face some stiff competition
> from Zundel's UFO scam, doesn't he?!

Oooh, decisions, decisions! That's a toughie, Hilary. Why don't we flip a
coin or something? Hmmm. Wait! You do realize, don't you, that if we toss
in Faurisson  we would have a three-ring circus? 

I always did like to watch the clowns do pratfalls....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Oct 30 16:56:04 PST 1996
Article: 77853 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:11:37 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References:  <553btv$63v@news.enter.net> <846665957snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <846665957snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <553btv$63v@news.enter.net> yawen@enter.net "Yale F. Edeiken"
writes:
> 
> > >   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
> > 
> >   
> > >  Are you trying to tell us that it is torture to be locked up in a prison?
> > 
> >         Under certain circimstances yes.  Your plan is to use it as
coercion 
> > to deprive Danish citizens of their human rights.
> 
> 
> Hell Yale, they've already been deprived of their guns! Wait until the 
> government takes away your gun, then President Farrakhan will give you
> all your just desserts. You won't be whining about his "Hitler's ovens" 
> speech then, you be crying to the ADL and all the other Jewish organisations
> who have lobbied to disarm Americans, "G_d, how could you have been so blind?"

Why don't you tell that to the IRA, Al? Maybe _they'll_ listen to you. God
knows, only retarded anti-Semitic fruitcakes on this side of the pond do.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 31 16:59:01 PST 1996
Article: 77987 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He snatched the baby away and threw it into a blazing oven
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 02:35:00 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References:  <3273E77C.65AE@ccnis.net> <846617118snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <846797340snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <846797340snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> > > Actually, it's plagiarism. Hart doesn't claim to have seen this
incident, and
> > > it is copied from Nyiszli in any case.
> > 
> > Er, no, Al. Nyiszli writes that a _teenage_ girl survived a gassing and
> > was subsequently taken, on orders from Mussfeld, to the furnace hall and
> > shot. (cf. Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, pp.114-120.) 
> 
> Yes, I have the book; the story is similar enough to be plagiarism. I think
> though that outright lie would be more fitting.


 

I see. Obviously, Al, you think that when people relate similar events
they have witnessed or been told of, that this constitues plagerism. Or do
you only use this ersatz "standard" of yours against Jews?  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 31 18:45:32 PST 1996
Article: 78004 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 05:01:22 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 164
Message-ID: 
References: <559b62$sod@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55bcth$i6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55bcth$i6k@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on28 Oct 1996 (Ceacaa) wrote:
>     CEACAA wrote:
> >>  Why then did the Germans build the alleged
> >>  gas chambers UNDERGROUND?  This made an
> >>  expensive ventilation system necessary and
> > > lead to a longer ventilation time.
> 
> >Because, Mr. Allen, they were _origionally_ designed as >UNDERGROUND
> morgues and were to be built, 
> >along with the Krema,  in Auschwitz I. That's
> >why they were called Leichenkeller 1 and Leichenkeller 2 
> >on the construction plans, you know. 
> >(Or _don't_ you know, Mr. Allen?) 
>
> Now, now, Mark, don't be pedantic.  

I'm sorry, Mr. Allen, but unfortunately it is _necessary_ to be a bit
pedantic with deniers, such as yourself. You see, Mr. Allen, your kind
likes to play puerile games, so one must be quite clear and detailed about
what is said. 

> Of course WE  know that the Leichenkeller were designed as morgues.
> It is a basic Revisionist argument.  

No, Mr. Allen. The current _denier_ Argument of the Month is that the
L.Kellers  were delousing chambers. Before that they were bomb shelters.
Before _that_ they were where (coal) gas was generated. 

Now, if you are talking about _real_ historical revisionism then, yes,
Pressac's study of the evolution of the L.Kellers from being morgues to
being a homicidal gas chambers (L.Keller 1) and an undressing rooms
(L.Keller 2), is a basic argument. One that I find quite well supported by
the evidence.

> I was trying to point it out to D. Keren.  

No, Mr. Allen, as usual, you were playing puerile denier games. 

> Thanks for helping Mr. Keren along.

Indeed. It was my pleasure, as always, to expose your lies. 

>               [Keren's posting]
> > >#The ventilation system was not that expensive. On p.
> > >#233 of "Anatomy" we see that the offer for the Krema
> > >#IV and V ventilation systems was for 2,510 RM.
>             [back to VanAlstine]
> >You "think" wrong then, Mr. Allen. The price Dr. Keren 
> >quoted was correct: 2,510 RM. 
>
>      Yes, but that was for Krema IV and V which were
> above ground and had windows.  Of course their ventilation
> system was much cheaper.

"Yes, but" nothing, Mr, Allen! You questioned the price Dr. Keren gave as
being innacurate. You were wrong. As usual. 

> >Furthermore, a cast-iron blower for the
> >ventilation system to
> >Krema II's L.Keller 1 cost 522 RM. 
> >(cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.230.)
> >Clearly, such costs indicate that the 
> >costs of the ventilation systems to
> >the L.Kellers was not overly significant 
> >when copmpared to the overall
> >cost of the Kremas. 
>

[ad hominem snipped]

> Get real, Mark!  Kremas II and III were immensely expensive;  
> around 2,000,000 RM.

Mr. Allen, Krema II was delivered to the SS on March 31, 1943, for the
price of 554,500 reichsmarks. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.233.) 

Oops, wrong again! You're 0 for 2 now, Mr. Allen. 

> That is a WHOLE 2 RM per victim (of Auschwitz) and
> that is just for disposal.  If you think that
> if even half of the victims (the number) were cremated 
> in pits, or  elsewhere then you are up to 4 RMs per victim.

Mr. Allen, given that 300,000 to 400,000 people were murdered and
incinerated in Krema II, and that Krema II cost 554,500 reichsmarks, that
would mean the amortized cost was between about 1.4 to 1.8 reichsmarks per
victim. Compare this to the fact that the Nazis garnered 90 reichsmarks
per victim murdered. That would mean a total of between about 27 MILLION
to 36 MILLION reichsmarks of blood money from Krema II. That's a ROI of
between 27:1 to 36:1 

> The Treblinka method was free.

Mr. Allen, Aktion Reinhard, used _four_ camps and killed some two million
Jews, generating 178 million reichsmarks in revenues. (cf. Gutman,
_Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.590.) Auschwitz, which was _both_ an
extermination and a labor complex generated, at a minimum, about 160
million reichsmarks of revenues during its existance. (cf. Gutman,
_Anatomy_, pp.46,262.)

> The ventilation costs, ducting, fans etc. was a 
> significate cost.

And your evidence of this is? What? No evidence? Typical.

> >> However, the ventilation time and possible
> >> breakdown problems also seem to be significant
> >> disadvantages of a ventilation system and reasons
> >> not to make the gaschamber underground.  
> 
> >And what possible "breakdown problems" 
> >with the ventilation system of
> >L.Keller 1 are you suggesting, Mr. Allen? 
> 
> Mechanical systems break down, fan belts, rotors,
> widgets.  

And did such breakdown to the L.Keller 1's ventilation system ever happen,
Mr. Allen? The only breakdown that I have read of that springs to mind
involved the forced draft ventilation motors for the _furnaces_ in Krema
II that caught fire. They were removed. (They were never installed in
Krema III.) 

> Especially new, untested ones.  Nobody would
> put a new expensive, untested system in when they
> had a working  existing system.

Mr. Allen, Krema I, which had similar furnaces, ventilation, etc. had been
in operation for quite some time. One can _hardly_ conclude that the very
similar components of Kremas II were "untested." (Or expensive.) 

> D. Keren's suggestion of a barn with two or three doors
> is a simple logical idea which existed (SHM) at Birkenau
> prior to December 1942 in the form of "the Bunker".

Indeed. And the Nazis chose to abandon them in favor of the gas chambers
in the  Kremas. Only during Aktion Ho"ss was bunker 2 brought back into
use. 

> Do you remember that the Bunker could "handle"
> 2,500 victims at a time?  More than Krema II. 

Your source, please? My recollection was that bunker 1 could hold 800 and
bunker 2 about 1,200. (cf. Ibid. p.162.) 

> Why build a SMALLER gaschamber, Mark?

Smaller? Mr. Allen, the very first homicidal gassing in Krema II's gas
chamber killed almost 1,500 people. (cf. Ibid. 232.) Or do you mean why
was L.Keller 1 _subdivided_ into _two_ smaller gas chambers? L.Keller 1
was subdivided to "regularize" the operation of Kremas II and III. (cf.
Ibid. 224.)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Oct 31 19:44:32 PST 1996
Article: 78016 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 05:14:45 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 80
Message-ID: 
References: <559b62$sod@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <55bd4f$i8q@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <55bd4f$i8q@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on28 Oct 1996
> 
> >How long do you suggest it took
> >to completely venitlate L.Keller 1 
> >after a homicidal gassing?
>     Mark!  That's your job, making-up Hoaxter stuff.
>     Sworn Eyewitness Testimony says 5 minutes but
>      WE KNOW THAT CAN'T BE RIGHT, DON'T WE, MARK?

No real answer, eh, Mr. Allen? The necessary clues are all in _Anatomy_,
Mr. Allen. Any person actually _intereted_ in determining fort themsleves
could calculate it. Instead, you give more hollow bluster. Typical. As to
L.Keller 1 being ventilated in five minutes? Your source, please? My
recollection was that L.Keller 1 took a bit longer to ventilate than five
minutes. 

Care to make those caluclation, Mr. Allen? Or will you simply continue to
act like a denier parrot? 

> >> There would also be some logistic problems 
> >>of herding people underground and 
> >> then getting the bodies back up.
>   >Such as? 
> 
> Such as the cost of the little elevator, as an example.

Really? And how much did this "little elevator" cost, Mr. Allen? 

> As to "herding people", tricking people to walk
> around the Krema, go down the little narrow
> stairs at the west end of the building, into the
> low ceilinged L/keller 2 all on the pretext of 
> taking an underground shower.  

Not too hard when armed soldiers with attack dogs are doing the herding.
Especially when prisoners (Sonderkommando) kept telling the victims (in
their native language) that everthing was okay and they were simply going
to bathe and get deloused. 

> > ># Why not a nice big shed with two or three doors?
> >      [Keren]
> > >It's very possible that Pressac is right, and that the
> > >gas chambers of Kremas II and III were planned as 
> > >morgues, and then converted to gas chambers. But, again, your
> > >point is moot, because they *did* build them. What
> > >for, do you suggest, did they built them?
> >        [CEACAA]
> >> The Leichenkellers 1 were built to be and were used
> >> as Leichenkellers.
> 
>   [VanAlstine]
> >And your evidence for this is, Mr. Allen? 
> 
>      Here what one noted Exterminationist scholar 
> wrote on the subject:
> >Because, Mr. Allen, they were _origionally_ 
> >designed as >UNDERGROUND morgues and were to be built, 
> >along with the Krema,  in Auschwitz I. That's
> >why they were called Leichenkeller 1 and 
> >Leichenkeller 2 
> >on the construction plans, you know. 
>      Maybe you don't believe the gentleman, Mark?

Indeed. And doesn't that very same "noted Exterminationist scholar" _also_
write that they were convrted into homiucidal gas chambers, Mr. Allen? 

How "selective" your reading skills are! Or don't _you_ believe the
gentleman when he says that, Mr. Allen? _I_ certainly do! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  1 09:09:56 PST 1996
Article: 78065 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: He snatched the baby away and threw it into a blazing oven
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 01:01:35 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References:  <3273E77C.65AE@ccnis.net> <846617118snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <846617118snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <3273E77C.65AE@ccnis.net>
>            miasaura@ccnis.net "Annie Alpert, OFB" writes:
> 
> > Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> > > 
> > > ³It often happened that when the doors were opened too early some of the
> > > people were still alive. Once, to the horror of the men in the
> > > _Sonderkommando_, a tiny baby was found still sucking at it¹s mother¹s
> > > breast. It had probably been sucking all the time and so had not inhaled
> > > the deadly fumes. S.S. man Wagner was furious. He snatched the baby away
> > > and threw it into a blazing oven.²
> > > 
> > > Hart, _Return to Auschwitz_ (ISBN 0-689-70637-5), p.122-123.
> > > 
> We've been through this before you dumb bint; I should know because I
> got an earful off Keren over it.

Indeed. And _I_ filled your _other_ ear, you silly goose. That's what
happens when you behave like a twit. 

> This is, at best, hearsay. 

Actually, at best, it is the truth. However, I would agree that in this
case Hart is probably relating something she was told and did not see
first-hand. I suppose, due to the ambiguity of the passage, one would need
to ask Hart about this. Irregardless, it didn't mean it didn't happen
though.... Similar things were reported by eyewitnesses. 

> Actually, it's plagiarism. Hart doesn't claim to have seen this incident, and
> it is copied from Nyiszli in any case.

Er, no, Al. Nyiszli writes that a _teenage_ girl survived a gassing and
was subsequently taken, on orders from Mussfeld, to the furnace hall and
shot. (cf. Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, pp.114-120.) 

Don't you _ever_ do any research before you blather on? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Nov  1 09:09:57 PST 1996
Article: 78077 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!pipex-sa.net!iafrica.com!hermes.is.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!swrinde!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: England to Enforce the Holocaust Lie
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 1996 02:40:42 -0700
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <846616119snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <5560s2$7be@news.enter.net> <846796857snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <846796857snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

[snip]

> You're telling me I have no right to use what you term an "ethnic slur"? On
> whose authority you obnoxious little kike? 

And you claim you are not an anti-Semite, Al. Such chutzpah.

> What makes you so special that you can dictate what other people have a right 
> to do? One reason I like that sort of strong language is because it sorts the 
> wheat from the chaff. 

You like "strong language." Oh, goody. Don't be suprised then, Al, that if
we ever meet I'll spit it you face and laugh at you for the craven little
cocksucker you are. 

> It's what is referred to as calling a spade a spade, and it is something that 
> people of  all races and backgrounds generally appreciate.

Indeed. Them I'm sure you can appreciate being called a misanthropic
cosksucking little anti-Semite. Yes? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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