The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/v/van-alstine.mark/1996/van-alstine.0996


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 13:11:30 PDT 1996
Article: 61698 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 08:46:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
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In article <322ad9d9.425173@news.inetport.com>, mcurtis@inetport.com wrote:

> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> This isn't even intelligent discussion when someone sends back to
> Jamie what Jamie wrote to him. Poor technique and it shows us ALL a
> lack of drive and true desire to learn. It also shows us that there
> isn't much knowledge to be obtained from this denier.
> 
> I expected better. :-(

I didn't. :-/

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 13:11:31 PDT 1996
Article: 61701 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 08:43:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
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In article <50aua5$f1i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Jamie McCarthy WROTE ON, 31 Aug 1996 
> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> > Conversion from a Leichenkeller (morgue) to
> > a homocidal gaschamber.  Leichenkeller 1 was
> > designed and built (dixit Pressac) as a non-homocidal
> > morgue.
> 
> Designed that way?  Or built that way?  Or both?  Please be explicit,
> and back up your assertions with quotations from Pressac. Thank you.
> 
>     DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF PRESSAC TECHNIQUE?

Yes.

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 13:11:32 PDT 1996
Article: 61703 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 08:43:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 131
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References:  <509htt$g2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <509htt$g2@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on28 Aug 1996 
> >> The starting point of the discussion was that
> >> most (90%) of the orginal slab roof exists.
> >> Would you agree with this?  I am asking you 
> >> in your capcity as a Nizcor expert.
> 
> 
> >Irregardless, Mr. Allen, based on the photos of L.Keller 1 in
> >_Technique_ it is self-evident that nowhere 90% of a roof for
> >L.Keller 1 exists. 
> 
> >roof n. 1 the outside top covering of a building
> 
> >There are, however, some broken concrete slabs and 
> >much rubble and debris at the floor of L.Keller 1. About 
> >all one can say with certainty is that
> >perhaps a fourth to a third of the roof at 
> >the end furthest from the ruins
> >of the Krema shell is only _partially_ collapsed. 
> >This is the part of the
> >"roof" where Pressac climbed underneath 
> >and took photos.
>            
> 
> Is this the same Mark VanAlstine who wrote contentiously:
> The roof didn't have three layers but "consisted of just two 
> layer [sic], which sandwiched the damp-proofing between them."?

Yep. According to the Bauleirtung drawing109/13A (_Technique_, p.322-323)
the cross-section of L.Keller 1 calls for:

"Isoleirung 3 Lagig" (Damp-proofing 3 layers [floor])

"2 lagig" (2 layers [walls])

"1 lagig" (1 layer [roof])

Furthermore, the 5/4/43 corrospondance between Huta and Bischoff (Ibid.
p.235) talks about the Bauleitung agreeing to two layers of damp-proofing
for the floors of the cellars. (Previous corrospondance on 4/6/43
indicated that only one layer was to be used and the usual 2 year
guarantee could not be given because of this. [Ibid. p. 233.]) 

But your point was, Mr. Allen? Besides that of simply sniveling and
whining, that is? 

> Or said that the roof didn't have ashphalt on it but bitumens?

Bituminous felt, actually. Also called "roofing felt" or "tar paper?" And
is used for damp-proofing:

"bituminuous felt (_Build_) A manufactured material incorporating abestos,
flax or other fibres, and bitumen, generally about 1/8 (3mm) thick. It is
produced in rolls, is impervious to water, anf is largely used for roof
coverings." (_Larousse Dictionary of Science and Technology_, p.112.) 

"bitumen (_Min_) All naturally occuring inflammable hydrocarbons, of
various compositions and consistancies, from liquids to solids:
petroleums, tars, asphalts, waxes, etc." (Ibid.) 

But your point was, Mr. Allen? Besides that of simply sniveling and
whining, that is? 

> After those whoppers, we had hoped that you would 
> have the decency to maintain a little embarassed 
> silence. 

Pot. Kettle. Black. 

But your point was, Mr. Allen? Besides that of simply sniveling and
whining, that is? 

> Anyway, the whole roof is about in the same intact condition   as the
35% that 
> Pressac crawled under and took  a picture of.  

That is not clear from the photos, Mr. Allen. 

> The complete roof is there.

Indeed. The broken slabs and rubble that once comprised an intact standing
roof is most certainly laying at the bottom of L.Keller 1. 


> It wasn't blown up but was dropped into the room below.

Such a choice of words, Mr. Allen! "Dropped into the room" indeed!
Interesting then too, wouldn't you agree, that when demolition experts
demolish a building they often too use the term "dropped." As in they
"dropped" the building. The building, however, was still _destroyed_, Mr.
Allen. 

In other words, Mr. Allen, it was demolished, yes? It had explosives
applied to it, yes? The result was a pile of broken concrete and rubble,
yes? 

Just like L.Keller 1.

> You know that a large percentage of the roof is in reasonable condition.  
> Why would the rest of the slab not be in the same condition?

Why _should_ it, Mr. Allen? 

> You  even admit that you cannot be certain  about the remaining 70% of the 
> roof,  yet you get on my case for saying that it is a coherent set of pieces.

Indeed I do, Mr. Allen. Deservedly so, I might add. 

> Anyway, how can we resolve the question? 

By providing unequivoicable evidence. Something, Mr. Allen, you seem to abhorr. 

> What would it take to convince Mark VanAlstine that the  roof "is there" 
> and how do we marshall the evidence?

Unequivoicable evidence, Mr. Allen. Like a detailed and objective
examination of the ruins. With photos. Currently, the only such evidence I
have seen that meets that criteria is in Pressac's _Technique_. Needless
to say, it does not support your claims. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 15:11:48 PDT 1996
Article: 61710 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Steven Spielberg's SS Amon Goth?,2-Mark Van Alstine's Strike 1
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:49:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References: <509b4r$mh4@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <509b4r$mh4@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> To Mark Van Alstine who replied to Steven Spielberg's SS Amon Goth, 
> concerning a remark I made to Chuck Feree's response to the same article.  
> I reminded Chuck of his failure to provide proof that Julius Streicher 
> published pornography. Mark sent some snips from Streicher's IMT 
> proceedings which failed to provide the proof requested.Thus: 

According to _you_, Herr Schwarzmehr. Needless to say your "standard" of
"proof" is about as twisted as Streicher's idea of a good time. 

> Well, thanks for supplying all the above, but I have read it all before.  

I sincerely doubt that, Herr Schwarzmehr. 

> You failed to provide proof of Streicher 
> publishing pornography-and when I say pornography, I mean the likes of Al 
> Goldstein's Screw magazine.  That is how I define pornography. 

I could care less how _you_ define pornography, Herr Schwarzmehr. 

> That stuff about alien albumen etc. is drivel, and hardly fits in with my 
> definition of pornography. 

Again, I could care less how _you_ define pornography, Herr Schwarzmehr. 

> Much worse is published every day in the United States, and is protected by 
> the first amendment. 

We are talking about Streicher, his _Der Stu"rmer_, and the reason he was
convicted (and executed) for crimes against humanity, Herr Schwarzmehr.
(Not that much of what is published today _wouldn't_ have landed a
publisher in hot water for publishing obscenities fifty years ago.) 

> One cannot justify executing another human being simply because they
have a >noxious personality, hold unorthodox opinions, or even publish
libels.  

That wasn't why Streicher was hanged, Herr Schwarzmehr. As you would have
known had you actually read the judgement of the IMT instead of blowing
smoke out your butt. 

[The rest of Herr Schwarzmehr's impotent Nazi apologia drivel snipped.] 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 15:11:49 PDT 1996
Article: 61722 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!noos.hooked.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 09:00:02 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <3229ef9c.2660182@news.inetport.com> <50ehns$190@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <50ehns$190@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> For the reader's information, I addressed Mike Curtis's
> remarks on Streicher being a pornographer,  , the proof
>  of which he failed to provide.  They wrack their brains for
>  hours thinking ofan explanation that might get them off the hook.
>   Unfortunately for them, the only thing that will get them off the
> hook is providing direct Evidence.....

For "direct evidence" of Streicher's pornographic (as well as obscene and
anti-Semtic) proclivities, one need only to look at issues of his paper,
_Der Stu"rmer_. 

For a synopsis of this and why Streicher was convicted and hanged as a war
criminal please see my article "Re: Steven Spielberg's SS Amon Goth?",
thankfully archived by DejaNews, at:

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3cmvanalst-3008960158220001@rbi144.rbi.com%3e&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=841679560.25626&hitnum=0

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  2 23:29:28 PDT 1996
Article: 61800 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:26:28 -0800
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In article <322b2d11.2640309@news.spry.com>, klewis@veritas.nizkor.org
(Ken Lewis) wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Sep 1996 01:06:17 GMT, ursus_m@ix.netcom.com (Ursus Major)
> wrote:
> 
> >David Irving, the renouned British Historian, will be speaking at the
> 
> David Irving renouned?

Slip of the keyboard, I'm sure. He meant _renounced_ British historian.... };-> 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep  3 07:44:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61831 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 23:40:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References: <322a00f3.7100424@news.inetport.com> <50gd0n$g82@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50gd0n$g82@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mike Curti swrote on 01 Sep 1996 
> 
> ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
> 
> > >   Anyway, the whole roof is about in the same intact 
> >>    condition   as the 35% that Pressac crawled under 
> >>    and took  a picture of.
> 
> >Who claims it was 35%? How can one tell 
> >if it is 35%? Define intact? 
> >Intact to me means that it is full and unbroken,
> >complete.
>
> Coherent.  One can look at the pieces and easily discern  what the original 
> roof was like.

And one can look at the photgraphs and drawings, and read the Bauleitung
memoranda regarding the L.Kellers and also discern what the origional roof
was like. One can _also_ discern that it was constructed and used as a
homicidal gas chamber as well. That is, of course, if one has a modicum
intellectual integerity and objectivity....

> >   The complete roof is there.
> 
> Complete in what form?

Why don't yo look at the photographs, Mr. Allen, and tell us? Is the roof
still standing, Mr. Allen? Is it still in the "form" it was in the
Bauleitung photographs from 1943, when it was just being completed? Or is
it reduced to ruins, along with the rest of the Krema? 

> >>  It wasn't blown up but was dropped into the room
> >>  below.
> 
> >This usually happens when things get blown up. 
> >Are you suggesting thatthis structure wasn't blown up?
>
>  Blown up means blown UP^....  

blowup (-up') n. 1 an explosion *2 an enlarged photograph 2 [Colloq.] an
angry or hysterical outburst

Mr. Allen, your absurd denier semantic games aside, according to
_Webster's New World Dictionary_ (Third College Edition) the word "blowup"
means "an explosion." It seems quite reasonable then that something that
was "blownup" would mean, simply, that it was subject to an explosion. 

In other words, Mr. Allen, Krema II and its Leichenkellers were demolished. 

>The roof wasn't....  

The roof most certainly _was_ subjected to an explosion. It was demolished. 

> ...The supporting columns were blasted and the roof dropped.

QED. Thank you. 

[The rest of Mr. Allen's silly drivel snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep  3 07:44:25 PDT 1996
Article: 61842 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth - No substance
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 16:56:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <322b1602.11258361@news.pacificnet.net> <322b1ffc.13813088@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <322b1ffc.13813088@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

> Moran challenged Mr.Mittleman to list just one percent of the
> "10,000" camps (.01%) to which the challenge was never accepted.
> And all Moran ask for was, one percent.  


This, of course, is a lie. First Moran's challenge was for "just 1/2%" of
the 10,000 "extermination" camps. [1] (This was initially overlooked
because Goldhagen was talking about concentration camps and Moran, being a
bufoon, botched it as usual and wrote _extermination_ camps- of which
there were only six. All in occupied Poland.) Second, Moran's "challange"
(Ha!) was met, quite handily by Mr. Kelley and myself soon after Moran had
the temerity to open his big fat mouth. 

In articel  I listed 51 camps-
one more than the requisite "1/2%" of the 10,000 camps. The URL to my post
(at DejaNews) with the list of camps is:

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=13259350&server=dnserver.db96q1&CONTEXT=841707428.14839&hitnum=0


Mark


1. In article <316686f4.1834879@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net
(tom moran) wrote:

"...Can you come up with just 1/2% of the 10,000 extermination
("destroying") camps Goldhagen claims?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep  3 13:21:20 PDT 1996
Article: 61937 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 1996 23:08:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <50gc8l$g2g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
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In article <50gc8l$g2g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 02 Sep 1996 ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:
>  
> > >> The starting point of the discussion was that
> > >> most (90%) of the orginal slab roof exists.
> > >> Would you agree with this?  I am asking you 
> > >> in your capcity as a Nizcor expert.
>        Mark's answer (a hesitating reluctant answer) is 
>         below in the second part of this reply.
> 
> >> Is this the same Mark VanAlstine who wrote >>contentiously:
> >> The roof didn't have three layers but "consisted 
> >>of just two 
> >> layer [sic], which sandwiched the damp-proofing >>between them."?
>     >Yep. 
>       Yep?   Well, Mark, you're a fool but a proud fool.
>    

And you, Mr. Allen, are getting nowhere with your petulent ad hominems.
But, I suppose, that is _all_ you have left to "argue" your absurd
fantasies with, as supremely evidenced by your aversion to dealing with
the facts. You are, Mr. Allen, once again scraping the bottom of the
intellectual barrel.... 

How utterly unsuprising. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep  4 23:30:18 PDT 1996
Article: 62447 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Internet neo-Nazi activist denounces "movement"
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 18:40:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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Message-ID: 
References: <505vq0$kq8@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <32292492.831@snet.net> <50be8v$pk3@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <3229543c.17729844@news>  <322d051f.10444702@news>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:71680 alt.revisionism:62447

In article <322d051f.10444702@news>, pgroff@txdirect.net (pgroff) wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Sep 1996 07:46:32 GMT, qut@netcom.com (Dave Harman OBC)
> wrote:
> 
> >Fuckhead.  Why are all your types conservatives?
> >-- 
> 
> Why are all your types only capable of useing invectives??
> Is that the only form of communication people like you are capable
> of??

Well, because he obviously can't figure out which "smileys" to use to
grunt and drool with....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep  4 23:30:19 PDT 1996
Article: 62464 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: IMT #3
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 18:44:02 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
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In article <322CA1F5.5D24@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

> Chuck Ferree writes:
> 
> Matt can play lawyer all he wants to, he still doesn't understand how 
> it works, and he certainly isn't qualified to make value judgenents as 
> he does in the post. 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> Matt Giwer wrote:
> > 
> > KURT GERSTEIN
> > 
> >         Kurt Gerstein is often referred to as a Holocaust "witness";
however,
> > this is not correct. By "witness", 
> 
> He goes on and on about law, when he just doesn't have a clue. He 
> should stick to his forte, which is house painting. White only.

Really? And here I thought, for some reason, it was crapping on lawns.... 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:35 PDT 1996
Article: 62496 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!gatech!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Moran's 'Scientific' Nonsense (Re: McVay's litt
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:04:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 120
Message-ID: 
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net>  <322af4e8.2784752@news.pacificnet.net>  <322c2506.2723565@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <322c2506.2723565@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> >#  dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> >
> >## And you can? Like your claim that it would have made more
> >## sense to use "liquid HCN" than Zyklon-B?
> >
> ># And you say it wouldn't? Try to explain it. Go ahead, try it.
> >
> >I will let Dr. Peters do the explaining. Remember, Tommy, he
> >was the general manager of Degesch. The following is from his
> >book. Or, do you claim to know more about HCN and Zyklon than
> >Dr. Peters? You're a funny little boy, Tommy.
> >
> >"the danger of the polymerization of liquid prussic acid, the difficulty
> >of transporting big containers: all this was overcome with absorbing the
> >liquid prussic acid in a suitable porous carrier material, and with
> >storing this material in simple but sturdy tin cans".
> >
> >And more:
> >
> >"The absorption in a suitable carrier material increases the durability
> >of prussic acid and therefore the possibility to store it over a long
> >time; its spreading in countless pores and over the large surface of a
> >porous material slows polymerisation, even when no stabilisator is
> >added.  Additionally, the porous carrier material facilitates the
> >transport of prussic acid. It can be shown easily in an experiment
> >that a tin can filled with liquid prussic acid only will burst open on
> >the ground after a fall of a couple of meters, while a can filled with
> >an equivalent amount of granular material soaked with prussic acid,
> >will only suffer big dents: the liquid in the can does not give way,
> >the granular filling may be compressed easily".
> >
> >And yet more:
> >
> >"Further, the absorption results in a reduction of danger because even
> >in the case of a damaged container, never a large amount of liquid leaks
> >out at once, but only relatively small amounts of gas; cracks, pores
> >and similar faults in the transport-material will result in loss of
> >prussic acid, which is unpleasent under technical considerations, but
> >not in accidents. Most importantly, the absorption increases the ease
> >of use of prussic acid: handling containers with solid contents has
> >more advantages than handling those with liquid content: granular
> >material can be spread more easily on surfaces than liquid prussic
> >acid: this is especially important for the quick evaporation of the
> >gas and for achieving a fast increase of the gas concentration".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Danny Keren.
> >
> All well and good for fumigation purposes and the handling by
> personnel for that reason.

Indeed it was.

> For mass mass extermination, heavy cylinders, likened to oxygen
> or compressed air specs. would be the way to go.

Indeed not. See above _again_, O' Illiterate One. 

> The statements here are someone plugging the product for
> fumigation purposes and the use by personnel traveling around from
> place to place.

And how does this significntly differ, in practice, from _homicidal_
"fumigation" and the necessity of shipping the product to Auschwitz. Not
to mention carrying it from the storeroom to the homicidal gas chambers? 

> As far as any polymerization is concerned (shelf life), the
> liquid HCN could have been shipped directly from the manufacturers,
> just like it had to be shipped to Degesch.

Says who? You? Pardon my laughter! Moran, you boob, you keep "forgetting"
that Zyklon B was mass produced and easily available; that it fit the bill
for being an economical and (relatively) safe homicidal agent; and that it
alleviated the psychological burden of mass murder from the SS troops
doing the killing. In short, there was no _reason_ to seek another
homicidal agent. Zyklon B was a most efficient homicidal agent in _all_
respects.

>  The tanks could have been fitted to pipe introduction systems,
> left to stand ready, nothing more to do than turn a valve.

Such complexity in an introduction system was, of course, specifically
_rejected_ by Eichmann:

"...We also discussed killing by carbon monoxide through the shower heads
in the shower rooms, but this would also create a problem because too many
intricate installations would be needed...." (_Death Dealer_, p.28.) 


> The Holocaust story has it the pellets were dropped in, no need
> to scatter, thus any liquid could be just injected at desired places.

Indeed not. See above _again_, O' Illiterate One. 

> Zyklon B was a product made specifically for fumigation. 

Indeed it was. And it was _easily_ adapted for homicidal use. (Your
objection, Moran, is patently absurd. It is like saying that TNT could not
have been used as an explosive filler for munitions _because_ it was
_origionally_ designed for _peaceful_ uses! What a utter boob you are,
Moran.) 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:36 PDT 1996
Article: 62506 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Words of Wisdom on Grynspan...
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:48:04 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References: <50k4n7$9na@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <50l9m5$a6r@news.enter.net>
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In article <50l9m5$a6r@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> 
> >       I regret that I can not lie to support a Mossad murderer.  Now if cash
> >  were to come my way ... you have my address 
> 
>         How about a bottle of Boone's Farm?

How about a bottle of cheap aftershave.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:37 PDT 1996
Article: 62509 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Show your support - sign on here
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:40:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <322c2b9f.4412894@news.pacificnet.net><322c2b9f.4412894@news.pacificnet.net>  <50lcud$1cpc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <50lcud$1cpc@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> schwartz@infinet.comTue, 03 Sep 1996 10:45:04 -0400 writes:
> :>
> :>In article <322c2b9f.4412894@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> :>moran) wrote:
> :>>         DON'T MISS THIS OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW YOUR SUPPORT
> :>> for Ken McVay, webmaster of the anti-hate Website, Nizkor, The
> :>> Holocaust Educational Resource, endorsed by the U.S. Holocaust Museum,
> :>> The Simon Wiesenthal Center and many other Institutions and Websites.
> :>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> :>> 
> :>> Those already signed on are:
> :>> 
> :>> 1. Chuck Ferree
> :>> 
> :>> 2. Joel Rosenberg
> :>> 
> :>> 3. Danny Mittleman
> :>> 
> :>> 4. Jamie McCarthy
> :>> 
> :>> 5. Keith Morrison
> :>> 
> :>> 6. Yale Edeiken
> :>> 
> :>> 7. Ken McVay, reiterating
> :>> 
> :>> 8. Sara Schwartz - gladly endorsing Nizkor. I do NOT endorse Ken McVay
> :>as webmaster, because he is NOT. Jamie McCarthy and Hilary Ostrov are the
> :>co-webmasters. Anyone with half a brain would know this.
> 
> Which explains why Moron doesn't know it.
> 
> I would like to be number 9...number 9...number 9 (gee, reminds me of a song).
> 
> I am an honorary schmuck and an aspiring fatbroad.

And I _still_ haven't got my ZOG t-shirt yet. But add me to the list anyways.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:37 PDT 1996
Article: 62510 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:43:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 156
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In article <50h2e2$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>, Herr Schwarzesel drooled:

> Mark Van Alstine rages:
>   
> >  According to _you_, Herr Schwarzmehr. Needless to say your "standard" of
> >  "proof" is about as twisted as Streicher's idea of a good time.
> 
> What was his idea of a good time, Herr Van Alstine? 

Well, Herr Schwarzesel, I dare say _you_ are _far_ more "qualified" in
telling us about what such twisted and perverted individuals, such as
Streicher, considered a "good time." 

> My standard of proof?

Yes. Or rather, your lack of _any_ standards -as well as any proof.

> I asked you to supply evidence direct from Streicher's publications that he 
> was a purveyor of pornography, as the slander goes...

No, Herr Schwarzesel, you wrote:

In article <509b4r$mh4@juliana.sprynet.com>, Herr Schwarzesel grunted:

> To Mark Van Alstine who replied to Steven Spielberg's SS Amon Goth, 
> concerning a remark I made to Chuck Feree's response to the same article.  
> I reminded Chuck of his failure to provide proof that Julius Streicher 
> published pornography. Mark sent some snips from Streicher's IMT 
> proceedings which failed to provide the proof requested.Thus: 

Please focus your (meager) intellect on the part: "I reminded Chuck of his
failure to provide proof that Julius Streicher published pornography."

Backpedaling already, Herr Schwarzesel? 


Let the reader decide whether my request is twisted or not.... 

Well, considering that I actually did read your drivel, and did find it
twisted...

> >  > Well, thanks for supplying all the above, but I have read it all
before.  
> >  
> >  I sincerely doubt that, Herr Schwarzmehr.
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you again. 

I'm not dissapointed, Herr Schwarzesel. I fully expected that you where
without the slightest clue as to what you are talking about. My
expectations were simply confirmed by your ignorance -and arrogance.  

> >  > You failed to provide proof of Streicher 
> >  > publishing pornography-and when I say pornography, I mean the likes
of Al 
> >  > Goldstein's Screw magazine.  That is how I define pornography. 
> >    
> >  > That stuff about alien albumen etc. is drivel, and hardly fits in
with my 
> >  > definition of pornography. 
> >  
> >  Again, I could care less how _you_ define pornography, Herr Schwarzmehr.
> 
> It's not my definition.  It's the definition provided by Streicher's 
> detractors, without any proof, as you have amply shown us. 

Afraid not, Herr Schwarzesel. The only person vaccuously touting a
"definition" of pornography like "Al Goldstein's Screw magazine" etc. is
YOU, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> >  > Much worse is published every day in the United States, and is
protected > >  > by the first amendment. 

Oops, seems like you left out part of my comment, Herr Schwarzesel! Now
why would that be? Perhaps it is due to your scurrilous character? 

I wrote:

"We are talking about Streicher, his _Der Stu"rmer_, and the reason he was
convicted (and executed) for crimes against humanity, Herr Schwarzmehr.
(Not that much of what is published today _wouldn't_ have landed a
publisher in hot water for publishing obscenities fifty years ago.)"
 
> >  (Not that much of what is published today _wouldn't_ have landed a
> >  publisher in hot water for publishing obscenities fifty years ago.)
> 
> In hot water?  Surely you jest!  A man was murdered for exercising his right
> to free speech. 

Herr Schwarzesel, Streicher was tried, convicted, and executed for crimes
against humanity. I know it's hard for you, but do try and keep up.... 

> >  > One cannot justify executing another human being simply because they
> >  have a >noxious personality, hold unorthodox opinions, or even publish
> >  libels.
> >  
> >  Is Schwarzmehr similar to Schwarzenegger?

Not in the least, Herr Schwarzesel. Mr. Schwarzenegger is a successful
businessman and an upstanding U.S. citizen. You, on the other hand, are a
pathetic Nazi apologist and lackey.  

> Well, does this mean that you concede defeat?  

How can one possibly conceded "defeat," Herr Schwarzesel, when you are
sitting in the "corner" with your head up your ass and drooling? In fact,
one gets the impression that all you've managed to do is beat yourself
senseless....

> By the way, I read the entire proceedings against Streicher at 
> Nuremberg...Needless to say, there was absolutely no justification for his 
> execution, aside from the fact that he disliked Jews. 

Herr Schwarzesel, it is pathetic apologistic proclamations such as this
that confirm you are simply blowing smoke out your butt. If you _had_ read
and _comprehended_ the IMT proceeding and jusdgement against Streicher you
would be making such an ass of yourself.   

> By the  way, did you know that the eminent historian Bradley F. Smith
happens > to agree that the case against Streicher was ridiculous?  

Herr Schwarzesel, did you know that Mr. Smith is neither emminent nor a
historian? And that his opinions regarding the IMT judgement of Streicher
are are nothing more than the absurd bleatings of a Holocaust denier? 

> You have failed to provide the proof I requested, and by your violent and 
> childish outbursts have now branded yourself as a frustrated fool in the eyes 
> of many people who visit this web-site and follow these threads.  

On the contrary, Herr Schwarzesel, I have readily provided the relevent
passages from various texts refutes your idiotic claims regarding
Sreicher. That and to evidence that you are an obfuscating and pompus ass
as well as a Nazi apologist. 

> Keep up the good work.....

Never fear, Herr Schwarzesel, I fully intend to. It amuses me to now end
to frustrate pathetic little Nazis-wannbes, such as yourself, in their
promulgating Nazi apologia and propaganda. And to watch them turn
apoplectic in their impotence when they are so frustrated. 

> ...in a few years we might even present you with an award for rendering 
> services to the cause of historical revisionism.

Words to remember, Herr Schwarzesel. I'll be sure to remind you of them
when you are presented with your crow pie.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62511 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:33:33 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 182
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In article <50llu7$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, jbelling@sprynet.com wrote:

> >Thank you for posting this to my attention.  Please allow me to
> correct your errors of translation, as well as interpretation; see comments
> interspersed below:

And the document you made this "correction" is from where, exactly, Herr
Schwarzesel? 

>  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  Going's Commission to Heydrich:
> >  
> >  Berlin: July 31, 1941
> >  
> >  The Reich Marshal of the Greater German Reich
> >  Plenipotentiary for the Four-Year Plan
> >  Chairman of the Ministerial Council for the Defense of the Reich
> >  
> >  To: the Chief of the Security Police and the SD,
> >  SS Major General Heydrich, Berlin:
> >  
> > As supplement to the task- (This should read "Completing the task...)
>
> which was entrusted to you in the decree 

"Complementing the task that was assigned to you on 24, January 1939...."
(_Destruction_, p.262.) 

[snip]

> Now, may I ask what you are trying to prove by the above?  

So glad you asked, Herr Schwarzesel. Obviously, there is a slight
disagreement in the translation of the text. However, since I refer to
Hilberg's _Destruction_, and not some _uncited_ translation for my
"correction," I will defer to Hilberg. The importance here, for example,
between Mr. Lewis's translation, which says "supplement" and Hilberg's,
which says "complement," is overall quite minor. The difference, however,
between "supplement" and "complement" vs. "completing" is a different- if
subtle -story, Herr Schwarzesel. 

complement n. [...] 4 something added to complete a whole; either of two
parts that complete the other (_Webster's New World Dictionary_, Third
College Edition.) 

supplement n. [...] 1 something added to make up for a lack or deficiency
[...] -vt. to provide a supplement ; to add to, esp. so as to make up for
a lack or deficiency. (Ibid.)  

complete adj. [...] 1 lacking no component part; full; whole; entire 2
brought to a conlusion; ended; finished [...] -pleting to end; finish;
conclude [...] (Ibid.) 

Given the context, the use of "suplement or "complement" clearly indicates
that the orders of July 31, 1941, rather than _concluding_ the orders of
January 24, 1939 (as would be intimated by the use of "completeing"),
meant that Heydrich was to _add to_ those orders. To execute the the July
31, 1941, orders _in addition to_, or to _make up for the deficiencies_
of, those given on January 24, 1939.

And what does this mean? It means that the Nazi policy of forced
emmigration, culminating in the (failed) Madagascar project, was
_superceded_ by a policy of deportation and concentration of Jews into-
and eventually extermination of Jews in -the East. That the _failure_ to
expunge the Jews from areas under German control required an _additional_
repsonse. This such a _new_ response to the Jewish Question was needed was
hinted at by Heydrich in a letter to Ribbentrop on June 24,1941, in that
"the whole program of approximately three and a half million Jews in the
areas under German control could no longer be solved by emigration; a
'territorial' final solution would be necessary." (Ibid.) 

> So you may understand, allow me to properly explain the context of
> the document.  

Uh oh. Time to break out the hip waders folks....

> What do you imagine this document signifies? 

More importantly, what new Nazi apologia are you going to spew forth, Herr
Schwarzesel? 

> A call for extermination, of which Goering was aware?  Hardly. 

Indeed. We all _do_ see. Herr Schwarzesel has no clothes. 

> In the first place the original order was dated January 24, 1939-no serious
> historian believes that an extermination program was devised against
> the Jews at this date.  

And given that January 24, 1939, were by their failure, _superceded_ by
the _new_ policy orders given to Heydrich by Go"ring on July 31, 1941,
your objection is specious and irrelevent. 

> It is ludicrous.  

Yes, your attempts at obfuscation are indeed ludicrous. 

> Also, the task was assigned to  Heydrich, and not to Goering. 

Indeed. The orders were given to Heydrich _by_ Go"ring!

> The reason this document exists is  because Goering, as Head of the Four year 
> Plan, was responsible for Germany's finances and economic development 
> programs.  

> The task submitted to Heydrich concerns EMIGRATION and EVACUATION, nothing
> more, nothing less...

Emmigration and evacuation to _where_, exactly, Herr Schwarzesel?
Heydrich, just days before, acknowleded that such plans, including the
"evacuation" to Madgascar, were a failure and needed to be supplanted by a
"territorial" solution. So, as emmigration and evacuation where out of the
picture, Herr Schwarzesel, what was Heydrich supposed to _do_ with these
some 3.5 million Jews in territories controlled by Germany? Especially so
as Nazi "policy" was to _rid_ the German territories of the Jews?

Obviously, as history has shown, Herr Schwarzesel, they were deported to,
and concentrated in, ghettos in occupied Poland and the
Generalgouvernement (i.e. the East) where they were killed in the mass
murder Aktions. The first of which, discounting for the moment the
Einsatzgruppen mobile killing operations, was Aktion Reinhard. 

> ...and Goering is simply asking for the logistic details, which would fall 
> under the competence of the Four Year Plan. 

Bullfeathers, Herr Schwarzesel. Go"ring was giving Heydrich orders for
something far different than a request for mere "logistic details," as is
self evident by:

"...I hearby charge you with making all necessary preperation with regard
to organizational and financial matters for bringing about a complete
solution of the Jewish question in the German sphere of influence in
Europe...."

Sure sounds like Go"ring was ordering Heydrich to prepare for the
commencement of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, Herr
Schwarzesel.

> Finally, the last paragraph refers to a "total solution", not "Final 
> solution".  

The "complete solution of the Jewish question in the German sphere of
influence in Europe."

Once again, Herr Schwarzesel:

complete adj. [...] 1 lacking no component part; full; whole; entire 2
brought to a conlusion; ended; finished [...] -pleting to end; finish;
conclude [...] (Ibid.) 

In other words, Herr Schwarzesel, Go"ring's orders were for Heydrich to
bring to a conclusion the "solution of the Jewish question in the German
sphere of influence in Europe."

>...There is nothing sinister about this document. 

Of course there is, Herr Schwarzesel. According to Hilberg:

"The order of July 31 marks a turning point point in anti-Jewish history.
With the dispatch of that order, the centuries-old policy of expulsion was
terminated and a new policy of annihilation was innagurated. As such the
cryptic Go"ring letter has had an importance which far transcends the
brief span of the German destruction procvess." (Ibid.) 

> Consequently, your attempt to cast guilt upon Goering
> falls flat on it's face, and you with it.  

Consequently, Herr Schwarzesel, your pathetic attempt to white-wash
Go"ring and the Nazis for their culpability in the Holocaust has caused
you yet again to beat yourself senseless and go down for the count. 

[The rest of Herr Schwarzesel's peacock imitation snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:39 PDT 1996
Article: 62558 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 00:43:54 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <31AUG199618090241@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu><3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <31AUG199618090241@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <3229ac51.1212249@news.pacificnet.net> <50lcsi$1nho@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50lcsi$1nho@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <3229ac51.1212249@news.pacificnet.net> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> moran) writes:
> :>
> :>dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) wrote:
> :>
> :>>    Medias, zeyde?  How many medias can you name?
> :>>
> :>>    Almost always the Jews you say.  Ken McVay isn't Jewish.  Gord McFee
> :>>    isn't Jewish.  Marty Kelley isn't Jewish.  Bill Anderson isn't Jewish. 
> :>>    Jamie McCarthy isn't Jewish.  Now what was your point?
> :>>
> :>>    Rest of the drivel snipped.  There wasn't enough valid in the first
> :>>    paragraph to keep reading.
> :>
> :>      I was waiting for some fool to come out and cite these on
> :>alt.revisionism. Okay you have totally obliterated Moran's post by
> :>citing five (5) individuals. 
> :>      'Oh, look. There's 5 grains of black sand on the beach, therefore
> :>the beach is black'.
> 
> About your speed, Moron.
> 
> OK.  Tell us all the posters that are Jewish and indicate how you know they
> are Jewish.
> 
> And then tell us why anyone should care less.
> 
> BTW, what "religion" are you?

He's Moranic(tm). Duh. };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 07:29:40 PDT 1996
Article: 62560 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:50:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 87
Message-ID: 
References:  <50iti7$eka@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50iti7$eka@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine Wrote on  02 Sep 1996 (Ceacaa) wrote:
>  
> #> >> The starting point of the discussion was that
> #> >> most (90%) of the orginal slab roof exists.
> #> >> Would you agree with this?  I am asking you 
> #> >> in your capcity as a Nizcor expert.
> 
> #>> You know that a large percentage of the roof is 
> #>>in reasonable condition.  
> #>> Why would the rest of the slab not be in the same condition?
> 
> >Why _should_ it, Mr. Allen? 
> 
> >> You  even admit that you cannot be certain  about 
> >>the remaining 70% of the 
> >> roof,  yet you get on my case for saying that it is a 
> >>coherent set of pieces.
> 
> >Indeed I do, Mr. Allen. Deservedly so, I might add. 
>      I don't expect Mark VanAlstine to have the
>      brains or honesty to admit that most of the
>      roof of Leichenkeller 1 is still in a coherent
>      form.  It would be nice if he could try not
>       to dissemble so much.

More ad hominems? Tsk, tsk, Mr. Allen. Obviously, you have nothing else to
offer this discussion except your typical denier insults and hypocrisy.
How typical.

> >> What would it take to convince Mark VanAlstine that the  roof "is
> there" and how do we marshall the evidence?
> 
> >Unequivoicable evidence, Mr. Allen. Like a detailed and 
> >objective examination of the ruins. With photos. 
>
>      I am always amazed at the LACK of information the
>       Nizcor bunch has regarding the present condition of
>       the most important physical evidence of mass killings
>        at Birkenau.  

More like you are _completely_ frustrated at having your lies so handily
exposed....

>        I am also amazed that you can equivocate
>        for months in answering a simple question, "How much
>        of the roof is still there?" 

Obviously, Mr. Allen, you are easily amazed then.
 
>        Months ago I suggested that somebody we all more or 
>        less trust go make your "detailed and objective 
>        examination. 

A hollow "suggestion," Mr. Allen. But I suppose you will continue to beat
_that_ particular dead horse some more? How typical. 

>         Unfortunately, Morris the Hoaxter chickened out.

Hardly, Mr. Allen. But speaking of "chickening out," where's that
photograph of the vents in the roof of L.Keller 1 you have boasted about?
Hmmm?  

>         While disappointed in Morris'  craven behavior, it 
>         still   remains the most resonable way of confirming
>            the Revisionist position.

Indeed. I laugh my self right off my chair every time. It truly does
confirm the venal stupidty of the denier "position" (i.e. bent over with
head-up-ass). 

>         So, Mark, do you know any honest Exterminationists
>         out there who know what a slab of concrete looks
>         like and have more sense of honor than Morris?

Mr. Allen, are you _always_ such a stupid fuck? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 12:14:17 PDT 1996
Article: 62646 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 18:30:50 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 75
Message-ID: 
References: <50g2qd$2ds@news.enter.net> <50jei1$1b7@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50jei1$1b7@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  > Without getting too deeply in this, I would like to read any of
Larson's > >  > autopsies for people allegedly found gassed at Dachau.
> >  
> >   Then look up his report and read it.
> >  
> >  >  As to the well fed guards, many of the prisoners looked well-fed 
> >  >  also. The majority of deaths in these camps was  due to disease.  
> >  >  Typhus runs rampant very quickly and the fatality rate can be very high.
> >  
> > The incubation period for typhus is approximately 14 days. It "runs 
> > rampant" only when relatively simple public health measures are not
taken.  > > The fatality rate for typhus is about 10% in most populations.

> > It is easily controlled.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
>
> I don't need to look up his report.  

Why not, Herr Schwarzesel? Not interested in the truth, but in simply
running off at the mouth? How unsuprising. 

> You are the one making accusations that there were autopsies done on people 
> who had allegedly been gassed.  

It's not an accusation, Herr Schwarzesel. It's simply quoting what Dr.
Larson said:

"... Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however, they
were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium where the
ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then ordered
to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped in
cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the
bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened
to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly
and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles.
But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally
examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner...." (_Crime Doctor_,
p.61.) 

Herr Schwarzesel,  please note the part: "But, in my opinion, only
relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were
murdered in this manner." Hmm. A _forensic_ pathologist- an _expert_
witness in other words -opined that a small number of the prisoners he
_examined_ were killed by cyanaide poisoning. How interesting, yes? 

> As to your final point about typhus:  At Bergen Belsen, 13,000 deaths 
> occurred in a 6 week period following liberation.  At Dachau they died 
> at a rate of 200 per day for the first week.  Between April 30 and 
> June 16, 1945, 2,466 deaths were recorded, with diminishing numbers 
> thereafter.  Deaths were due to typhus, tuber-culosis, malnutrition, 
> dysentery and other causes. 

And, Herr Schwarzesel? Is this not enough evidence of the bestial living
condition that the Nazis forced the prisoners at Bergen-Belsen to live-
and die -in? Oh, BTW, what are _your_ sources for these numbers? 

>So much for your nonsense.

So much for _your_ Nazi apologia drivel you mean, Herr Schwarzesel....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 12:14:18 PDT 1996
Article: 62647 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 19:51:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 69
Message-ID: 
References:  <50gtb2$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50gtb2$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <50ehns$190@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  > For the reader's information, I addressed Mike Curtis's
> >  > remarks on Streicher being a pornographer,  , the proof
> >  >  of which he failed to provide.  They wrack their brains for
> >  >  hours thinking ofan explanation that might get them off the hook.
> >  >   Unfortunately for them, the only thing that will get them off the
> >  > hook is providing direct Evidence.....
> >  
> >  For "direct evidence" of Streicher's pornographic (as well as obscene and
> >  anti-Semtic) proclivities, one need only to look at issues of his paper,
> >  _Der Stu"rmer_. 
> >  
> >  For a synopsis of this and why Streicher was convicted and hanged as a war
> >  criminal please see my article "Re: Steven Spielberg's SS Amon Goth?",
> >  thankfully archived by DejaNews, at:
> >  
> >  
>
http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3cmvanalst-3008960158220001@rbi144.rbi.com%3e&serve
> r=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=841679560.25626&hitnum=0
> >  
> >  Mark
> >  
> > 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  "Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and
evil passes 
> >  not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
> >  right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 
> >  
> >  -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
> > 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >>>>
> I already addressed your response. It failed to meet the burden of proof,
> in my humble opinion.  

Herr Schwarzesel, you are neither humble nor do you have "opinions." What
you _do_ have is the proclivity for Nazi hero worship (e.g. Streicher) and
apologia (i.e. ranting against Streicher's conviction for crimes against
humanity.)  

> I found nothing pornographic in any of the quotes,

But then you also seem to think _Screw_ is the "standard" for pornagraphy....

> nor could I find any justification as to why Streicher was killed. I posted 
> my reasons why.

Then, Herr Schwarzesel, you are blind as well as stupid. The reasons for
Streicher's conviction for crimes against humanity was laid out in black
and white in the IMT's judgement against Streicher. Any poerson with a
modicum of intelligence and integrity can easily understand this. But, of
course, you are neither intelligent, nor possess any integrity....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 15:42:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62689 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Beaulieu break the 1 Meg psychological bareer
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 17:59:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <5032ag$m2n@Vir.com> <32298be4.2612719@news.inetport.com><5032ag$m2n@Vir.com> <32298be4.2612719@news.inetport.com> <3229affe.2153224@news.pacificnet.net> <50ius1$2vck@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <322d8c7a.6044715@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <322d8c7a.6044715@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) wrote:
> 
> 
> >:>     I guess this person thinks all he has to do is denounce something
> >:>as "drivel" and the readers should fall in behind him. Some sales job.
> >:>He says he has a product. He says it's great. Does he show it? No.
> >
> >Yes, Tom, you are imbecilic beyond comprehension.
> 
>         Prove it. Show it. Show your not just some little imp in the
> playground. 

Perhaps instead, Moran, you could prove that _you're_ not some little
_pimp_ on the "playground?" 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 15:42:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62698 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 18:36:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <50gtv0$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com> <322c74af.10309628@news.spry.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <322c74af.10309628@news.spry.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis)
wrote:

> On 3 Sep 1996 09:32:16 GMT, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> >Concerning Mr. McVay's remarks re:  Julius Streicher 2-PORNOGRAPHER
> >
> >
> >Mr. McVay...I am not asking for your definition of pornography.  I
> >already mentioned that in my first post.  Streicher was accused of
> >being a pornographer, like Larry Flynt, or Al Goldstein of "Screw"
> >magazine.  Please don't divert the reader from the direct subject.
> 
> 
> No, Mr. Belling. YOU are trying to define the definition of pornograpy
> in terms of Larry Flint or Al Goldstein. The definition has been given
> to you. You just don't wish to accept it.

Hero worship, obviously. Next thing you know Herr Schwarzesel will
"define" pornograpy according to how Streicher "defined" it! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 17:26:58 PDT 1996
Article: 62728 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:38:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 88
Message-ID: 
References:  <50lmpa$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50lmpa$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >  > >  
> >  >Mike Curtis writes:
> >  
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, you are neither humble nor do you have "opinions." What
> >  you _do_ have is the proclivity for Nazi hero worship (e.g. Streicher) and
> >  apologia (i.e. ranting against Streicher's conviction for crimes against
> >  humanity.)  
> >  
> What you have is no evidence.

Really, Herr Schwarzesel? It is a easily verified fact that Streicher was
convicted (and executed) for crimes against humanity. Please do try and
keep up. 

> >  >
>  I found nothing pornographic in any of the quotes,
> 
>   But then you also seem to think _Screw_ is the "standard" for pornagraphy...
> 
> It's a good place to start..

It is a completely irrelevant "place to start," Herr Schwarzesel. The
social norms of the time, in regards to such matters, were different than
they are today. 

> >  > nor could I find any justification as to why Streicher was killed. I 
> >  > posted my reasons why.
> >  
> >  Then, Herr Schwarzesel, you are blind as well as stupid. The reasons for
> >  Streicher's conviction for crimes against humanity was laid out in black
> >  and white in the IMT's judgement against Streicher. Any poerson with a
> >  modicum of intelligence and integrity can easily understand this. But, of
> >  course, you are neither intelligent, nor possess any integrity....
> >  
> Now, Mark, let's review the "evidence" you have posted as a reply to my
> request:  
> 
> 1.  I am a "Nazi".
> 2.  I am a "Schwarzesel".
> 3.  I am "blind".
> 4.  I am "stupid".
> 5.  I am devoid of intelligence and integrity..

Indeed you are, Herr Schwarzesel. However, you, being the morally
insalubrious person you are, seem to have "forgotten" one of my first
posts regarding Streicher and his _Der Stu"rmer_. It can be found at: 

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=%3cmvanalst-3008960158220001@rbi144.rbi.com%3e&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=841679560.25626&hitnum=0

> Gosh, you're starting to sound more and more like Ilya Ehrenburg every day.

And you, Herr Schwarzesel, are sounding like a hero worshipping Nazi
apologist, which is to be expected, as you _are_ a hero worshipping Nazi
apologist. 

> Well, now it's "Schwartzesel".  For those who do not know, this means
"black jack-ass".

Very good, Herr Schwarzesel. Indeed you _are_ an ass. A very pompus ass. 

> And, yes, I do think "Screw" magazine is a good example of pornography,
perhaps you think otherwise?  

Actually, Herr Schwartzesel, I think _Der Stu'rmer_ was an excellent
example of pornography for the period. It was also an excellent example of
obscenities, incitements to violence against- and mass murder of -Jews.
Which, when considering that Streicher contiunued publishing such
incitements while knowing of the genocide of the Jews, is one of the main
factors that led to his conviction and execution. 

> Thank you for your enlightened response to my request for documentary proof.  
> Let the reader draw his or her own conslusions about how you filled the 
> request.

Indeed, Herr Schwartzesel. I gladly defer judgement on your lack of
integrity and intelligence to the reader. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep  5 18:22:42 PDT 1996
Article: 62751 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!uniserve!news.sol.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:54:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 75
Message-ID: 
References:  <50lpd3$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50lpd3$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Concerning the alleged autopsies performed by Dr. Larson, as well as the 
> numbers of people who died at Belsen after liberation:  rblackmore wrote:
>
> >  > I don't need to look up his report.  
> >  
> >  Why not, Herr Schwarzesel? Not interested in the truth, but in simply
> >  running off at the mouth? How unsuprising. 
> >  
> > > You are the one making accusations that there were autopsies done on 
> > > people who had allegedly been gassed.  
> >  
> >  It's not an accusation, Herr Schwarzesel. It's simply quoting what Dr.
> >  Larson said:
> >  
> >(Irrelevant drivel snipped)
> >  
> >  Herr Schwarzesel,  please note the part: "But, in my opinion, only
> >  relatively few of the inmates I personally examined,.....
> 
> I am not interested in his opinions.  

Now why is that, Herr Schwarzesel? Not interested in the historical truth?
How unsuprising. You'd rather cling to your Nazi fantasies? Also
unsuprising.

> I want to see the autopsy reports which prove conclusively that the presence 
> of cyanide was found in these people after forensic testing.  That is what 
> will convince me.  Do you have it? 

Do you know what a forensic pathologist is, Herr Schwarzesel? Do you know
what a forensic pathologist does, Herr Schwarzesel? Obviously not. I
suggest you go find out. Perhaps then you won't act like such a pompus
ass. 

> > > As to your final point about typhus:  At Bergen Belsen, 13,000 deaths 
> > > occurred in a 6 week period following liberation.  
> >  
> >  Oh, BTW, what are _your_ sources for these numbers? 
> >  
> Oh, btw, the source is "Dachau-the hour of the Avenger" by American
> Colonel Howard Buechner, page 32.  When I play poker, I never bluff.

You must be a terrible poker player then, Herr Schwarzesel. So predictable. 

> I have read your posting as stated above.  Once again, you fail to provide 
> what I have asked for:  namely: copies of the autopsy reports allegedly 
> conducted by  Dr. Larson. 

Why don't you go find them and then post them here, Herr Schwarzesel? I'm
sure the folks at Nizkor would be happy to add them to their archives. Are
you perhaps, _afraid_ of what you will find? That your little Nazi
fantasies will come crashing down around your head? That you will then be
berift of any excuse for your repulsive Nazi apologia and hero worship? 

Sure seems like it, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> Give me that, and I will renounce this post.  I have a feeling there will
> be a Holy day in hell before anyone ever sees those alleged autopsy reports.

Words to remember, Herr Schwarzesel. One's you'll come to regret uttering,
I'm sure. 

[snip] 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep  6 07:24:07 PDT 1996
Article: 62795 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 19:50:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50lo7t$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Let's try Robert Wistrich's definition of the word, as it relates to
Streicher:
> 
> "This weekly newspaper (The Stuermer) was notorious on account of it's 
> coarse carricatures, it's repulsive photos of Jews, it's histories of 
> Ritual Murder, it's pornographic elements, and it's rude style."  
> (Who was who in the Third Reich, 1983 edition)  Npw, Mr. Mark Webster, 
> what do  you suppose he means by "pornographic elements?  

Uh, that elements of _Der Stu"rmer_ were _pornographic_? Duh.

All of which, considering that _Der Stu"rmer_  was Streicher's paper, and
that he exercised editorial control of it, would mean that Streicher was a
pornographer as well as "Jew-Baiter Number 1" for his incitements to
violence against, and the genocide of, the Jews. Thanks for the
(unwitting) confirmation, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> Shall I supply you with more examples? I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Oh, _please_ do, Herr Schwarzesel! It amuses me to no end to have you
place the noose, metaphorically speaking, around your own neck. 

> It is YOUR definition which has been given to me, because you find dealing 
> with the truth can be uncomfortable.  

And what is _my_ definition of pornography, Herr Schwarzesel? 

> Do you seriously believe you are impressing people with your tactics of 
> name-calling and abuse?  

Yes. It is always refreshing to properly label hate mongers and Nazi
apologists and hero worhippers for what they are. 

> >  Hero worship, obviously. Next thing you know Herr Schwarzesel will
> >  "define" pornograpy according to how Streicher "defined" it! 
> 
> Who thought up that clever little nickname of Schwarzesel?  Don Rickles?

Nope. Jes' little ol' me, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> Thank you for your kind remarks.  

My pleasure, Herr Schwarzesel. That you consider being labelled a Nazi
apologist and hero worshipper a kindness simply further evidences that you
are, in fact, such. 

> Not only have you lost this argument, but you appear to have lost your
mind as 
> well.

Far from it, Herr Schwarzesel. You see, I and others  have given you
evidence that not only was Streicher a war criminal for his anti-Semitic
incitements to violence and death against Jews, but a pornographer as
well. 

That you, in your Nazi fantasy world, cannot deal with these facts, and
thus dismiss them out of hand, is hardly evidence that _I_ (or others) 
have "lost this argument" or mind. Just the oppiste it would seem....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep  6 07:24:08 PDT 1996
Article: 62887 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 03:28:16 -0800
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In article <50og6m$rhh@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  And the document you made this "correction" is from where, exactly, Herr
> >  Schwarzesel? 
> 
> How about IMT?
> >  
> >  >  klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> >  > >  Going's Commission to Heydrich:
> >  > >  
> >  > Now, may I ask what you are trying to prove by the above?  
> >  
> >  So glad you asked, Herr Schwarzesel. Obviously, there is a slight
> >  disagreement in the translation of the text.  
> 
> >  And what does this mean? It means that the Nazi policy of forced
> >  emmigration, culminating in the (failed) Madagascar project, was
> >  _superceded_ by a policy of deportation and concentration of Jews into

> (the rest is snipped, but refers to extermination and nonsense about
Heydrich sending secret little "hints" to Ribbentrop) 

Herr Schwarzesel, the only thing more dismal than your reading
comprehension is your lack of integrity. Obviously, as you could not
respond to my response to your (willfull) _misinterpretation_ of
Go"ring's  July 31, 1941, orders to Heydrich you simply _had_ to make
excuses for your craveness. To reiterate:

...However, since I refer to Hilberg's _Destruction_, and not some
_uncited_ translation for my "correction," I will defer to Hilberg. The
importance here, for example, between Mr. Lewis's translation, which says
"supplement" and Hilberg's, which says "complement," is overall quite
minor. The difference, however, between "supplement" and "complement" vs.
"completing" is a different- if subtle -story, Herr Schwarzesel. 

complement n. [...] 4 something added to complete a whole; either of two
parts that complete the other (_Webster's New World Dictionary_, Third
College Edition.) 

supplement n. [...] 1 something added to make up for a lack or deficiency
[...] -vt. to provide a supplement ; to add to, esp. so as to make up for
a lack or deficiency. (Ibid.)  

complete adj. [...] 1 lacking no component part; full; whole; entire 2
brought to a conlusion; ended; finished [...] -pleting to end; finish;
conclude [...] (Ibid.) 

Given the context, the use of "suplement or "complement" clearly indicates
that the orders of July 31, 1941, rather than _concluding_ the orders of
January 24, 1939 (as would be intimated by the use of "completeing"),
meant that Heydrich was to _add to_ those orders. To execute the the July
31, 1941, orders _in addition to_, or to _make up for the deficiencies_
of, those given on January 24, 1939.

And what does this mean? It means that the Nazi policy of forced
emmigration, culminating in the (failed) Madagascar project, was
_superceded_ by a policy of deportation and concentration of Jews into-
and eventually extermination of Jews in -the East. That the _failure_ to
expunge the Jews from areas under German control required an _additional_
repsonse. That such a _new_ response to the Jewish Question was needed was
hinted at by Heydrich in a letter to Ribbentrop on June 24,1941, in that
"the whole program of approximately three and a half million Jews in the
areas under German control could no longer be solved by emigration; a
'territorial' final solution would be necessary." (_Destruction_.p. 262.) 

> rblackmore:  
> Now, where is all the above quoted in the original
>  document, Herr Quatschmeister Van Alstine?

Indeed, Herr Schwarzesel, I was deconstructing your pitiful attempt to
obfuscate the implications of Go"ring's orders to Heydrich. When I quote a
text I put the quote in quatation marks. I makes it easy for people with
even a smattering of intelligence to discern between when a text is being
quoted verbatim and when it is not. I was offering an analysis of the
implications. An analysis supported by references to Hilberg's
_Destruction_ and _his_ analysis. 

Obvioulsy, you lack even a smattering of intelligence, Herr Schwarzesel.

> >  > A call for extermination, of which Goering was aware?  Hardly. 
> >  
> >  Indeed. We all _do_ see. Herr Schwarzesel has no clothes
> 
> Indeed.  He doesn't need to conceal anything, like some people on this
web-site..

Really? And concealing your name by using an alias (or two) proves you
have nothing to hide? But, Herr Schwarzesel, in the main, your are
(inadvertantly) correct: You conceal nothing. Your stupidity and ignorance
is plain for all to see. As is your need to white-wash the Nazis of their
terrible crimes. 
 
> Concerning the date of the document, rblackmore responds:
> 
> How foolish of you, Herr Quatschmeister!  If you look at the date:  July
31, 1941,it should tell you something of importance here; but no, you fail
to see it....the blind trying to lead the blind over a precipice.  Shall I
tell you now?  

Oh, please do, Herr Schwarzesel. I could use another good laugh. 

> The reason Goering's document is dated July 31, 1941, is because 
> the war with Russia began on June 22, 1941, and from that point on, 
> Germany was fighting on two fronts, as well as having the war expanded 
> into the Balkans. 

Interesting then, is it not, Herr Schwarzesel, that according to Hilberg,
"toward the end of the spring of 1941, officials in France were still
approached with applications from Jews who were trying to emmigrate. On
May 30, 1941, a Gestapo offical from the RSHA, Walter Schellenberg,
informed the military commander in France that the emigration of Jews from
his area was to be prevented because transport facilities were limited and
because the 'final solution of the Jewish question' was now in sight."
(Ibid.) 

BTW, Herr Schwarzesel, do you even know where Madagascar is?  Do you know
_why_ the Madagascar project failed? Do you know how long it took Germany
to occupy the Balkans? 

> Consequently, emigration was replaced by evacuation and internment, as 
> Japanese citizens were interred in America. Now, who is wearing
>  no clothes, Mr. Van Alstine?  

> > Also, the task was assigned to  Heydrich, and not to Goering. 
> >  
> >  Indeed. The orders were given to Heydrich _by_ Go"ring!
> 
> No...you are mistaken.  

No, Herr Schwarzesel. Go"ring most certainly did give Heydrich orders on
July 31, 1941, which gave Heydrich "sweeping authority to organize the
'final solution'." (Ibid.)  

> The original task was assigned to Himmler or Heydrich. 

Irrelevent, Herr Schwarzesel. The "original task" failed and was
supplemented by Go"ring's orders to Heydrich. Orders that authorized the
organization for genocide.

> At this point in time, Goering was no longer head of either
> the SicherheitsPolizei or the Gestapo.  Consequently, he could not give
> orders to either Himmler or Heydrich in regard to these matters.

That is false, Herr Schwarzesel. Reichsmarschall Go"ring was not only in
charge of the German economy at the time, but also chaired the
Reichsverteidgungsrat (Reich Defense Council). Most importantly, he was
put in charge of the "Jewish question" by none other than Hitler. It was
under such auspices that Go"ring gave the orders to Heydrich. Orders that
set the "Final Solution" into motion. (cf. _Encyclopedia of the
Holocaust_, pp.597-598.) 

Furthermore, Herr Schwarzesel, I find it amusing that in article
<50llu7$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, you argued that Go"ring gave Heydrich
the orders because:

"...Goering, as Head of the Four year Plan, was responsible for Germany's
finances and economic development programs....and Goering is simply asking
for the logistic details, which would fall under the competence of the
Four Year Plan."

Yet you now change your spots and say that Go"ring "could not give orders
to either Himmler or Heydrich in regard to these matters?" How incredible,
Herr Schwarzesel. Especially so in the light of the fact that these orders
_were_ given by Go"ring and _were_ followed by Heydrich! Such hypocrisy.
Tsk tsk. But then, I hardly find it suprising coming from a Nazi apologist
such as yourself....

> Van Alstine:
> >  Heydrich, just days before, acknowleded that such plans, including the
> >  "evacuation" to Madgascar, were a failure and needed to be supplanted 
> >  by a "territorial" solution.
> 
> Why do you write territorial in apostrophes?  is that in the original
document?  

Indeed it is, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> If so, please post it...if not, then you ought to refrain from using it,
as it is the same  as sticking an ostrich feather in your hair...

It was posted in the part of my previous post that you, being the coward
you are, snipped out and ran away from as fast as you could:

...That such a _new_ response to the Jewish Question was needed was hinted
at by Heydrich in a letter to Ribbentrop on June 24,1941, in that "the
whole program of approximately three and a half million Jews in the areas
under German control could no longer be solved by emigration; a
'territorial' final solution would be necessary." (_Destruction_.p.
262.)    

>  So,  (snip), what was Heydrich supposed to _do_ with these
> >  some 3.5 million Jews in territories controlled by Germany?
Especially so as Nazi "policy" was to _rid_ the German territories of the
Jews?
> 
> What did America do with the Japanese, or with the Native Americans?  

Irrelevent, Herr Schwarzesel. The issue under discussion if the orders
given by Go"ring to Heydrich on July 31, 1941, and their implications in
regards to setting the "final Solution" into motion. 

> Yes, the policy was to deport the Jews.  

Indeed it was. They were at first concentrated in the ghettos and then
later deported to the killing centers. They were also killed in the field
by the Einsatzgruppen. The policy, as determined at the Wannsee
Conference, was the complete destruction of European Jewry

> However, as you well know, this policy was not very effective, as many
Jews were able to avoid being deported.  

How many Jews avoided deportation, Herr Schwarzesel? Surely, you must know
to make such statements. 

> The majority of ]France's Jews were not deported, nor Italy's or 
> Hungary's.

The Jewish population of France in 1939 was about 270,000. In 1945 it was
200,000. Hungary's Jewish population in 1939 was 400,000. In 1945 it
200,000. Poland's Jewish population in 1939 was 3,350,000. In 1945 it
50,000. (Ibid. p.670.) 

This means about 25% of France's Jewish population was "deported." That
about 50% of Hungary's Jewish population was "deported." And that nearly
99%  of Poland's Jewish population was "deported." 

Where _did_ all those Jews go, Herr Schwarzesel? 

> ... they were killed in the mass  murder Aktions. (snip)
> 
> There is much dispute about those accusations. The debate is far from
> settled. 

Whistling in the dark again, Herr Schwarzesel? There is no dispute about
Aktion Reinhard among historians, Herr Schwarzesel. The only "dispute" is
>from  crackpots, fruitcakes, and Nazi apologists like you. 

[snip]

> Yes, which meant evacuation and concentration, not murder.  As I already
> explained to you, Goering had no authority to issue orders to the SS, 
> Gestapo, or Security Police.  

As has already been shown above, Herr Schwarzesel, you are quite wrong.  

> What you obviously need to do is now locate the document
> in RESPONSE to Goering's memo, and then you will see that I am right.

I would suggest to you, Herr Schwarzesel, that _you_ read a history book
or two on the Holocaust. Perhaps then you might comprehend the issues
instead of relying on your Nazi fantasies. 

> >  Sure sounds like Go"ring was ordering Heydrich to prepare for the
> >  commencement of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, Herr
> >  Schwarzesel.
> >  
> Is that "Gesamtloesung" or Endloesung", either way it refers to logistic
issues.

Indeed. And it shows that Go"ring and Heydrich were well aware of the
imminent annihilation of the Jews as they were preparing for it. 

> >  > Finally, the last paragraph refers to a "total solution", not "Final 
> >  > solution".  
> 
> Are you now presuming to instruct me in German, Mr. van Alstine? 

Are you presuming to correctly interpret the document, Herr Schwarzesel? 

> >  In other words, Herr Schwarzesel, Go"ring's orders were for Heydrich to
> >  bring to a conclusion the "solution of the Jewish question in the 
> >  German sphere of influence in Europe."
> >  
> >  >...There is nothing sinister about this document. 
> >  
> >  Of course there is, Herr Schwarzesel. According to Hilberg:
> >  
> >Hilberg is a diligent researcher, but he is in error here

And your evidence for this, Herr Schwarzesel? Don't have anything? How
unsurpising. As usual you are all mouth and no brains. Just like an ass. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep  6 07:24:09 PDT 1996
Article: 62900 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!newsfeeder.sdsu.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 04:25:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 169
Message-ID: 
References:  <50ompn$22b@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50ompn$22b@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@sprynet.com wrote:

[snip]

> So much for Van Alstine's documentation...However, I asked for proof of
Streicher's pornography, not yours.  However, you disputed that request,
so I will now restate it:
> 
> Will you provide the direct evidence from Streicher's own publications
to prove to the readers that he was a purveyor of pornography in a sexual
sense?

That was not your origional criteria, Herr Schwarzesel. Moving the goals
posts, are we? Tsk tsk. That's a sure sign of backpedaling, Herr
Schwarzesel.  Irregardless, I have dealt with this issue already. It is
not my problem if you are too diseased in the head to comprehend it. 

> >You also disputed the fact that I have read the entire proceedings of the 
>IMT's Case against Streicher, so, I will repeat: I read it.  Want me to 
>quote from the text?  

Yes. 

...tell me what page and paragraph.

The entire document. 

> You see, I can always call your bluff....try me.

I just did. 

>  You failed to provide proof of Streicher 
>  publishing pornography-and when I say pornography, I mean the likes
>  of Al  Goldstein's Screw magazine.  That is how I define pornography. 

And I repeat, Herr Schwarzesel, I could care less about _your_ definition
of pornography. 

[snip]

> I have already posted the fact that this is how Shirer and Wistrich and
Snyder > define it when they write of Streicher.

Herr Schwarzesel, in  article <50lo7t$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com> did you not
write that Wistrich wrote of Streicher:

"This weekly newspaper (The Stuermer) was notorious on account of it's coarse 
carricatures, it's repulsive photos of Jews, it's histories of Ritual
Murder, it's pornographic elements, and it's rude style...." 

That is the _only_ reference to Wistrich by you in DejaNews I can find. No
where is _Screw_ mentioned. However, Wistrich _does_ write that _Der
Stu"rmer_ has "pornographic elements." Given that Streicher owned and
exercised editorial control of _Der Stu"rmer_ this would make him a
pornographer by definition. 

> >  > >  > Much worse is published every day in the United States, and is
> >  protected > >  > by the first amendment. 
> >  
> >  Oops, seems like you left out part of my comment, Herr Schwarzesel! Now
> >  why would that be? Perhaps it is due to your scurrilous character? 
> 
> Perhaps it is due to the insignificant drivel you wrote?

More like your cowardice and propensity to run away like a whipped dog. 

[snip]

> What is so significant about that?  Were we executing publishers of 
> pornography 50 years ago?

No, "we" were executing convicted war criminals. Like Streicher. 

[snip]

> >  Herr Schwarzesel, Streicher was tried, convicted, and executed for crimes
> >  against humanity.
> 
> Good.  Now we're getting somewhere.  Will you post those "crimes against
humanity" for the benefit of the readers?  

Been there done that, Herr Schwarzesel. Do try to keep up with the program. 

[snip]

> I am neither, nor will I be a lackey to you...

Indeed not! I wouldn't let you lick my boots if you _paid_ me. They'd
probably rot or something. 

Bit as to you being a lackey, you most certainly are a Nazi lackey. Only a
Nazi lackey (or a terribly _stupid_ person) would invest so much of so
_little_  a brain defending a piece of excrement like Streicher. (Nazi
hero worship often causes Nazi-wannbes to do odd things....) 

>  By the way, I read the entire proceedings against
>  Streicher at  Nuremberg...Needless to say, there was
>  absolutely no justification for his  execution, aside
>  from the fact that he disliked Jews. 
> >  
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, it is pathetic apologistic proclamations such as this
> >  that confirmIf you _had_ read and _comprehended_ the IMT proceeding and 
> >  jusdgement against Streicher you would be making such an ass of yourself. 
> 
> I read it, I understand it, and it does not warrant the imposition of
the death penalty.

Of course, it did. 

> Even your Daniel Keren admitted he would probably not have voted for the death
> penalty.  

Dr. Keren is a kind and forgiving humanitarian. 

> >  > By the  way, did you know that the eminent historian Bradley F. Smith
> >  happens > to agree that the case against Streicher was ridiculous?  
> >  
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, did you know that Mr. Smith is neither emminent nor a
> >  historian? And that his opinions regarding the IMT judgement of Streicher
> >  are are nothing more than the absurd bleatings of a Holocaust denier? 
> >  
> Herr Quatschmeister, you have finally displayed your true ignorance, for
all the world to see.  I was not referring to Bradley Smith, the
revisionist.  I was referring to Bradley F. Smith, author of "Reaching
Judgment at Nuremberg".  Nothing like the taste of your own foot in your
mouth, eh, Quatschmeister?

Mr error, Herr Schwarzesel. An understandable one, I would think,
considering you're a little Nazi cheerleader for C.O.D.O.H. It rather easy
to overlook the "F." when one is dealing with a denier who plug C.O.D.O.H
and who mentions "Bradley Smith." 

[snip]

> >  Never fear, Herr Schwarzesel, I fully intend to. It amuses me to now end
> >  to frustrate pathetic little Nazis-wannbes, such as yourself, in their
> >  promulgating Nazi apologia and propaganda. And to watch them turn
> >  apoplectic in their impotence when they are so frustrated. 
> 
> I am not in the least bit frustrated, nor am I apopletic. 

Really? You write like you are. 

> Read your own rantings for evidence of that.

And you read like you are. Actually, Herr Schwarzesel, I'm  having a
wonderful time pulling your chain. 

> >  > ...in a few years we might even present you with an award for rendering 
> >  > services to the cause of historical revisionism.
> >  
> >  Words to remember, Herr Schwarzesel. I'll be sure to remind you of them
> >  when you are presented with your crow pie.
> 
> >   Not in your lifetime.

Oh, I'd say otherwise, Herr Schwarzesel. Unless of ,course, you are now
into making death threats becuase you keep getting your ears boxed? Such a
poor sport. Tsk tsk. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep  6 10:46:36 PDT 1996
Article: 140901 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 09:23:33 PDT 1996
Article: 63054 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 22:12:16 -0800
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In article <50qm5r$csb@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >   
> >  
> >  No, Herr Schwarzesel. Go"ring most certainly did give Heydrich orders on
> >  July 31, 1941, which gave Heydrich "sweeping authority to organize the
> >  'final solution'." (Ibid.)  
> >  
> >  > The original task was assigned to Himmler or Heydrich. 
> >  
> >  Irrelevent, Herr Schwarzesel. The "original task" failed and was
> >  supplemented by Go"ring's orders to Heydrich. Orders that authorized the
> >  organization for genocide.
> >  
> >  > At this point in time, Goering was no longer head of either
> >  > the SicherheitsPolizei or the Gestapo.  Consequently, he could not give
> >  > orders to either Himmler or Heydrich in regard to these matters.
> >  
> >  That is false, Herr Schwarzesel. Reichsmarschall Go"ring was not only in
> >  charge of the German economy at the time, but also chaired the
> >  Reichsverteidgungsrat (Reich Defense Council).
> 
> 
> What had this to do with the SS, Gestapo and Security Police, Herr
Quatschmeister?

Why, Herr Schwarzesel, it has _everything_ to do with it. But you knew
that as you, being the craven Nazi lackey you are, and because it
evidences that your objections are most specious, ommited the crucial part
of my reply: 

"...Most importantly, he was put in charge of the "Jewish question" by
none other than Hitler. It was under such auspices that Go"ring gave the
orders to Heydrich. Orders that set the "Final Solution" into motion. (cf.
_Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, pp.597-598.)"

Herr Schwarzesel, Go"ring was the person Hitler put charged in of the
"Jewish question." As Heydrich (and the SS) was dealing with the "Jewish
question" they came under Go"ring's authority. 

You are _so_ predictable, Herr Schwarzesel. Must be all that "poker" you play. 

> >  Furthermore, Herr Schwarzesel, I find it amusing that in article
> >  <50llu7$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, you argued that Go"ring gave Heydrich
> >  the orders because:
> >  
> >  "...Goering, as Head of the Four year Plan, was responsible for Germany's
> >  finances and economic development programs....and Goering is simply asking
> >  for the logistic details, which would fall under the competence of the
> >  Four Year Plan."
> 
> Mark Van Alstine responds to my request for him to show that the word 
> territorial was apostrophised in the original document:
>  
> >"  It was posted in the part of my previous post that you, being the coward
> >  you are, snipped out and ran away from as fast as you could:"
> 
> I beg your pardon?  I asked you to reproduce the original GERMAN document and
> show the browsers where Goering used an apostrophe.

Herr Schwarzesel, you seem rather confused of late. (Must be the spectre
of your abject failure to white-wash your Nazi heroes or something.) First
you confuse my posts with Mr. Curtis's and now you confuse Go"ring's
orders to Heydrich with Heydrich's letter to Ribbentrop. It is
self-evident, Herr Schwarzesel, that _I_ was talking about Heydrich's
letter to Ribbentrop: 

"...That such a _new_ response to the Jewish Question was needed was
 hinted at by Heydrich in a letter to Ribbentrop on June 24,1941..."
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You really should try paying more attention, Herr Schwarzesel. You are
making yourself look quite the fool. Not that I mind, of course. Watching
Nazi lackeys make fools of themselves is amusing. 

> >  > The majority of ]France's Jews were not deported, nor Italy's or 
> >  > Hungary's.
> >  
> >  The Jewish population of France in 1939 was about 270,000. In 1945 it was
> >  200,000. Hungary's Jewish population in 1939 was 400,000. In 1945 it
> >  200,000. Poland's Jewish population in 1939 was 3,350,000. In 1945 it
> >  50,000. (Ibid. p.670.) 
> >  
> >  This means about 25% of France's Jewish population was "deported." That
> >  about 50% of Hungary's Jewish population was "deported." And that nearly
> >  99%  of Poland's Jewish population was "deported."
> 
> I mentioned Italy, Hungary, and France, and indeed, I am correct.  We'll 
> discuss Poland another time.  Not now. 

You consider "deporting" 25%, 50%, and 99% of the Jewish population
inconsequential, Herr Schwarzesel? You call this being "correct?" Your
chutzpah is amazing, if predictable, Herr Schwarzesel. Do you know what
percentage of the Japanese-American population in the United States were
interned, Herr Schwarzesel? Surely not 99%? 

> >  Mr van Alstine refers to Aktion Reinhard in the following terms:
> >  Aktion Reinhard The only "dispute" is from crackpots, fruitcakes, 
> >  and Nazi apologists like you. 
> >  
> >We'll soon see.

I sincerely doubt that, Herr Schwarzesel. Especially so if the only
"objections" are those raised by crackpots, fruitcakes, and Nazi
apologists like you.

[snip]

> >  As has already been shown above, Herr Schwarzesel, you are quite wrong.  
> >  
> >  > What you obviously need to do is now locate the document
> >  > in RESPONSE to Goering's memo, and then you will see that I am right.

 Herr Schwarzesel, I have offered evidence that links Go"ring to the
beginnings of the FInal Solution. You, on the other hand, have failed to
refute this with the historical evidence. (Your Nazi fantasies don't
coun't, I'm afraid.) If you are claiming that some "response" to Go"ring's
July 31, 1941, orders to Heydrich exists that supports _your_
"objections," I suggest that _you_ produce it poste haste. Otherwise, one
can only conclude you are making yet another of your  hollow boasts prior
to slinking away, tail between your legs. 

[snip]

> >  Are you presuming to correctly interpret the document, Herr Schwarzesel? 
> 
> Yes.

Then please post the origional _German_ text and _your_ translation of it. 

[snip]

> Then let me cite one for you:  IMT, V.IX, pg 519.  Will that do?  

And what, exactly, does it say Herr Schwarzesel?

[snip]

> >  Obviously, as you could not respond to my response to your (willfull) 
> >  _misinterpretation_ of Go"ring's  July 31, 1941, orders to Heydrich you 
> >  simply _had_ to make excuses for your craveness. To reiterate:
> >  
> >  ...However, since I refer to Hilberg's _Destruction_, and not some
> >  _uncited_ translation for my "correction,"
> 
> By the way, I am fully conversant in German. 

Really, Herr Schwarzesel? I couldn't tell. 

> ...And my "uncited" post is now cited.

Why thank you, Herr Schwarzesel. Would it be too much trouble for, in the
future, to properly cite your supporting documentation withgout being
asked a dozen times or so? 

> Van Alstine continues:
> "  Given the context, the use of "suplement or "complement" clearly indicates
> >  that the orders of July 31, 1941, rather than _concluding_ the orders of
> >  January 24, 1939 (as would be intimated by the use of "completeing"),
> 
> More of your little sophisms.  Unfortunately, your explanation is fallacious.
> Again, I direct you to the correct interpretation that the details requested 
> by Goering concerned the logistics involved in transportation, etc. Goering 
> was addressing Heydrich as Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan.  

Uh, Herr Schwarzesel, Go"ring's titles and positions in the Nazi
governemnt has no bearing on the use and meaning of "suplement",
"complement," and "completeing." Talking about "little sophisms!" Pot.
Kettle. Black. 

[snip]

> If you are inclined to scoff further let me address your attention to 
> what is written in "Nazi Mass Murder, a documentary history", edited by
> Eugen Kogon, Hermann Langbein, and Adalbert Ruckerl. I am confident that
> you will not have a problem with those sources.  

Indeed I don't, Herr Schwarzesel. What I _do_ have a problem with is your
specious boast that "no serious historian believes that an extermination
program was devised against the Jews at this date."

Ergo, I offered Hilberg's analysis a as evidence that you were making a
hollow and specious boast. Hilberg. who is most definetely a "serious
historian" of the Holocaust, writes: 

"The order of July 31 marks a turning point point in anti-Jewish history.
With the dispatch of that order, the centuries-old policy of expulsion was
terminated and a new policy of annihilation was innagurated. As such the
cryptic Go"ring letter has had an importance which far transcends the
brief span of the German destruction procvess." (_Destruction p.262.)

Having given evidence that at _least_ one "serious historian" _does_
believe "that an extermination program was devised against the Jews at
this date" your thesis is shown to be worthless. 

[snip]

> Proceeding to your next point you refer to Hilberg's analysis. However, I am 
> concerned with the documents themselves right now and not Mr. Hilerg's 
> interpretations.  

How quaint. You wave your hands and dismis the analysis of one of the
world's preeminent Holocaust reasearchers and you expect to be taken
seriously? How amusing you are, Herr Schwarzesel!

Can I try this technique too Herr Schwarzesel? How about this:

[Herr Schwarzesel's Nazi apologia drivel snipped as I'm not concerned with
_his_ "interpretations." (Hallucinations, more likely.)]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 09:23:34 PDT 1996
Article: 63173 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 12:47:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50lmpa$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> And, yes, I do think "Screw" magazine is a good example of pornography,
perhaps you think otherwise?  

Actually, Herr Schwartzesel, I think _Der Stu'rmer_ was an excellent
example of pornography for the period. It was also an excellent example of
obscenities, incitements to violence against- and mass murder of -Jews.
Which, considering that Streicher contiunued publishing such while knowing
of the genocide of the Jews, is one of the main factors that led to his
conviction and execution. 

But either you knew that, Herr Schwartzesel and lack the integrity to
acknowledge th reasons for the IMT's judgement, or you are quite stupip
and lack the intelligence to comprehend the meaning of the IMT's
judgement. 

Take your pick, Herr Schwartzesel. Neither flatter you very much, however.
Personally, I think you are _both_ stupid and craven. But that's simply my
personal opinion based on your craven and stupid behavior.... 

> Thank you for your enlightened response to my request for documentary proof.  
> Let the reader draw his or her own conslusions about how you filled the 
> request.

Indeed, Herr Schwartzesel. I gladly defer judgement on your lack of
integrity and intelligence to the reader. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 18:06:58 PDT 1996
Article: 63266 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 14:05:08 -0800
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In article <50r7s0$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <50lo7t$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com
wrote and van alstine responded:
> >  
>  Thanks for the
> >  (unwitting) confirmation, Herr Schwarzesel. 
> ]
> Beg your pardon?  Where did I ever say that Wistrich PROVED Streicher was
> a pornographer?  FYI, he didn't. It is just a base accusation, like the other.

Herr Schwarzesel, Wistrich gave his historical assessment of Streicher's
_Der Stu"rmer_: 

"This weekly newspaper (The Stuermer) was notorious on account of it's coarse 
carricatures, it's repulsive photos of Jews, it's histories of Ritual
Murder, it's pornographic elements, and it's rude style." 

This assessment has been corroborated several times by several people
citing several different historical sources. That _Der Stu"rmer_ contained
"pornographic elements" and that Streicher was its publisher made him a
pornographer by definition. 

[snip]

> >  And what is _my_ definition of pornography, Herr Schwarzesel? 
> 
> I wouldn't presume to think for you, Quatschmeister.  That would be granting
> you too much.  Why don't you tell me what your definition of pornography is?

And what relevence would that have, Herr Schwarzesel? The only definition
of pornography that _is_ relevent is that of the period that Streicher
published _Der Stu"rmer_. And, as we know, given that criteria, Streicher
was widely known as being a pornographer. 

> >  > Who thought up that clever little nickname of Schwarzesel?  Don Rickles?
> >  
> >  Nope. Jes' little ol' me, Herr Schwarzesel.
> 
> No wonder it's so prosaic. 

Prophetic too, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> >  > Not only have you lost this argument, but you appear to have lost your
> >  > mind as well.
> >  
> >  Far from it, Herr Schwarzesel. You see, I and others  have given you
> >  evidence that not only was Streicher a war criminal for his anti-Semitic
> >  incitements to violence and death against Jews, but a pornographer as
> >  well. 
> 
> If you had given me satisfactory evidence I wouldn't still be asking for it.

Herr Schwarzesel, it has been quite obvious for some time now that the
only "satisfactory evidence" you are willing to entertain are your own
Nazi fantasies. Small wonder your ilk are called deniers. Not only do you
deny the Holocaust, but the rest of reality as well. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 18:06:59 PDT 1996
Article: 63268 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBellng is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:33:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50r73u$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:

[snip]

> >  He has yet to answer the following questions without prevarication:
> >  
> 
> I don't owe a fool like you any explanations for my comments. 

That being the case, Herr Schwarzesel, neither does anybody owe a
misanthropic Nazi hero worshipping apologist like you the slightest
consideration of your rancid spew you call "arguments". 

> >  Jbelling also made dubious claims that Eichmann was tortured. Yet, when
> >  asked for proof of this, he claimed to have in his position a picture of
> >  the tortured eichmann, which later became a picture showing eichmann to be
> >  a nervous wreck, which later became a picture that troll Belling admitted
> >  to not having in his posession
> 
> Again, you're wrong.  The man was Hoess, not Eichmann, AND I provided you with
> the source of the picture:  Look it up in your records.. 

Herr Schwarzesel, I'm not able to find any such source for this picture in
DejaNews from you. Perhaps you would repost the citation for the source of
said picture? 

And are you now claiming that it was Ho"ss and not Eichmann who was
tortured,  Herr Schwarzesel? The only article I can find in DejaNews where
you allude to Ho"ss being tortured was: 

In article <50ov5j$22b@juliana.sprynet.com>, Herr Schwarzesel wrote:

"After the interrogaters remove their boots from his [Jeckeln's]  mouth,
and the pins they stuck in his testicles...(Just a figure of
speech...don't ask me to prove it, but based on the treatment of Hoess and
others, this was probably the truth.)"

You alluded, Herr Schwarzesel, that Ho"ss's was kicked in the teeth and
had pins stuck in his testicles by his interrogaters? What is your source
for this is, Herr Schwarzesel? Or are you simply lying through your teeth?


> >  He has further claimed that the Discovery channel has knowingly promoted
> >  the figure of 4 million at Auschwitz in an attempt to mislead the public.

Please cite the program and date it was broadcast, Herr Schwarzesel. Then
please provide evidence that the Discovery Channel "knowingly promoted the
figure of 4 million at Auschwitz in an attempt to mislead the public." Or
are you simply lying through your teeth? 

[Herr Schwarzesel's rantings snipped.] 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 18:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 63269 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 13:37:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50rape$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >  In article <50lpd3$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  [big snip]
> >  
> >  > When I play poker, I never bluff.
> >  
> >  I would like you to answer the following without prevarication:
> >  
> >  (1) why you made a baseless accusation as documented above regarding
the SWC
> >  (2) where is your proof for the following:
> >     (a) that the SWC  promoted the figure of 4 million knowing it was wrong
> >     (b) that this was done for money
> >  (3) when you can't prov
> >  
> >  You will note, for the record, that I will continue to ask this question
> >  of you until I get a straight answer.
> >  
> >  [snip]
> >  
> >>Who cares what you ask.  Don't hold your breath..you'll end up in Nirvana
> before I ever answer to your demands.

So much for never bluffing, eh, Herr Schwarzesel?  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 18:07:01 PDT 1996
Article: 63279 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 12:58:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References:  <50r530$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <50r530$on2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >Mark:>
> Your post was hilarious.  Give me a page number and volume number from
the IMT. I'll type it up on the web-site.  

Herr Schwarzesel, I'm _already_ waiting for you to quote in full the
"IMT's Case against Streicher." After that you can quote in full PS-710
-both in the origional German and the English translation presented before
the IMT. 

Hop to it, Herr Schwarzesel! 

[Herr Schwarzesel's apoplectic spasms snipped]

> ...Besides, I'm a lover, not a fighter.

Indeed. Herr Schwarzesel, besides being craven to the bone, you are
obviously bessotted with your Nazi heroes.  Like the pervert Streicher and
the tumescent pig Go"ring. Such odd bedfellows you keep, Herr Schwarzesel.
But, I suppose, cosidering your apparent "interests" you don't have all
that many Nazi "heroes" to pick from when pursuing your Nazi fantasies....


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep  7 18:36:52 PDT 1996
Article: 141510 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 1996 22:12:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep  8 08:01:47 PDT 1996
Article: 63395 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBellng is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 20:52:33 -0800
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In article <50t048$19d@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  
> > 
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, I'm not able to find any such source for this picture in
> >  DejaNews from you. Perhaps you would repost the citation for the source of
> >  said picture? 
> >    
> I didn't know you were looking. Gandi already re-posted the source, and
admitted  his error.  You're just piling up the errors, Quatschmeister.  I
told you that you will receive the Revisionist award yet!

Herr Schwarzesel, obviously you aren't fully aware of how USENET works. It
is not uncommon for articles to take some time to propagate themselves
across news services. 

> >  And are you now claiming that it was Ho"ss and not Eichmann who was
> >  tortured,  Herr Schwarzesel? The only article I can find in DejaNews where
> >  you allude to Ho"ss being tortured was: 
> 
> Mark-you DO keep sticking your foot in your mouth, don't you?  How does it
> taste?  If you will read Gandi's reply to my reply in this matter, you will 
> see that he apologized and admitted he made an error.

See above. (You still didn't answer the question though, Herr Schwarzesel.) 
 
> >  You alluded, Herr Schwarzesel, that Ho"ss's was kicked in the teeth and
> >  had pins stuck in his testicles by his interrogaters? What is your source
> >  for this is, Herr Schwarzesel? Or are you simply lying through your teeth?
> 
> What IS your native language, Quatschmeister?  I didn't allude any such
> thing.  

Of course you did, Herr Schwarzesel. I take it then, that you were lying
through your teeth? 

> I clearly stated that this was just a "figure of speech".  

Oh, I see. You were being a malicious twit then? Sorry, Herr Schwarzesel,
your excuse is not accepted. You made allusions that Ho"ss was tortured,
that he was kicked in the teeth and had pins stuck in his testicles by his
interrogaters. Your recanting of your "figure of speech" sounds more like
some serious backpedaling, Herr Schwarzesel. This of course, makes the
prospect that you were maliciously lying all the more probable. 

> I am starting to feel pity for you, Quatschmeister.  Why don't you debate 
> other people more in line with your mediocre talents?

Becuase, Herr Schwarzesel, I, with my "mediocre talents," am quite content
to expose you for the lying piece of Nazi-worshipping filth you are. It is
quite amusing that you consistantly fail to support your "arguments" with
nothing more than your Nazi fantasies and then claim "victory" before you
scuttle away, refusing to own up to the written excrement you leave
behind. 

> >  Please cite the program and date it was broadcast, Herr Schwarzesel. Then
> >  please provide evidence that the Discovery Channel "knowingly promoted the
> >  figure of 4 million at Auschwitz in an attempt to mislead the public." Or
> >  are you simply lying through your teeth?
> 
> I already cited the reference.  The program was the Discovery Channel.  The
> program was:  Mengele, the man and his crimes, and the figure given by the
> narrator was 4.5 million Jewish dead at Auschwitz....

Excellent, Herr Schwarzesel. You have provided the title: "Mengele, the
man and his crimes." When was this program broadcast? 

> ...Are you capable of  understanding what I have just written? Now, simply 
> send an e-mail to discovery channel and ask about this program. Then order 
> it. Then come back and show  me up as a liar or yourself as a fool, for the 
> upteenth time.. This is a challenge.  PLEASE do it.

I thought my request was quite clear, Herr Schwarzesel. You were asked to
provide evidence that the Discovery Channel "knowingly promoted the figure
of 4 million at Auschwitz in an attempt to mislead the public." As _you_
have made this claim, Herr Schwarzesel, the burden is upon _you_ to
evidence that this was indeed the case. 

So far, Herr Schwarzesel, you have demonstrated nothing more than your
intellectual dishonesty, and your habit of bellyaching and breaking wind
with your mouth when asked to support your outlandish Nazi apologia and
hero-worship with factual evidence.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep  8 11:00:33 PDT 1996
Article: 63534 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 1996 20:25:40 -0800
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In article <50t0f4$19d@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Nice of you to jump in the fire and try to help Mr. Gandi.  Watch
> out you don't get burned again. You jumped in on the middle of a conversation 
> again, not realizing that Mr. Gandi refused to comply with information I had 
> requested from him.  Thus, he shall not receive what he is demanding from me.

Obviously, Herr Schwarzesel, you seem to be under the impression that
supporting your outlandish claims with factual evidence is somehow
contigent on your demands of others. Simply put, that is being
intellectually (as well as morally) dishonest in the extreme. No suprise
there, Herr Schwarzesel, as you, being a Nazi apologist, are indeed a
person of intellectual and moral ill-repute. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  9 08:20:49 PDT 1996
Article: 63738 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - PORNOGRAPHER
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 20:14:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50m4u4$1sf@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> I have to confess to you that I am not in the least bit interested in 
> Streicher's sex life. 

Why do I doubt you, Herr Schwarzesel?  You seem to be rather concerned
about Streicher's pornographic "hobbies." Why is that? 

> I don't care what other people thought about him; 

A hollow claim, Herr Schwarzesel, Nazi hero worshippers are often _very_
concerned in white-washing their Nazi heroes. They tend to construct rich
(and wildly innacurate) fantasies about their heroes and their dispicable
deeds.... Your obsession with Streicher, for instance, is a case in
point.  

> ...whether they loved him or whether they despised him; the only thing that 
> I am concerned with is how do any of these writings and opinions of his 
> justify the imposition of the death penalty?

Herr Schwarzesel, perhaps you could regain a modicum of rationality for a
moment and realize that Streicher _wasn't_ convicted and executed for
publishing pornagraphy, but for inciteting the German people with racial
hatred against the Jews and calling for their deaths? 

Your obsession (there is no other term for it, really) in asserting that
Streicher was executed for publishing pornography is nothing more than a
transparent red herring used in your (rather boring) attempts at Nazi
apologia. 

Get a life, Herr Schwarzesel. You badly need it. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  9 14:02:47 PDT 1996
Article: 63858 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 11:17:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> Taken from a recent upgraded of A. Butz site:
> Vergasungskeller

FYI, Butz's _Vergasungskeller_ article can be found at:

http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/di/dau/vk.html
 
[snip]

> ...My proposal is that the Vergasungskeller was a gas shelter. It need not 
> have been located within Crematorium II but I believe it most likely was,
> on account of the fact that Crematoria II and III, with their large concrete 
> cellars, were obviously ideal for adaptation as air raid shelters. Indeed
> when this problem is looked at from the point of view of defense against 
> air raids it seems there was no better choice at Auschwitz. The German 
> authorities responsible for providing air raid shelters would have 
> insisted that the necessary embellishments be made to these structures. 
> My reading of some of the relevant chemical warfare literature convinces 
> me that Crematoria II and III were conceived of by the Germans as having 
> this additional role....

Actually, Dr.Miklos Nyiszli mentions the use of L.Keller 1 as an 
air-aid shelter:

"I was in the habit of reading each night before I went to sleep. One
night, while I was doing just that, the lights suddenly went out and the
KZ alarm siren began its dismal wail. Whenever there was an alert we were
taken, conveyed by well-armed SS guards, to the Sonderkommando shelter,
that is to the gas chamber. 

"We crossed the threshold of the gas chamber with heavy hearts. The whole
kommando was present, 200 strong. It was a terrible feeling to remain in
this room, knowing that hundreds of thousands of people had met a
frightful end here. Besides, we knew that the life of the Sonderkommando
was drawing to a close. This being the case, the SS could very easily have
closed the gas chamber doors and dumped four cases of cyclon gas down the
chimneys to liquidate us all. (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.128.) 

Of course, if we are to accept Dr. Nyiszli account of the Sonderkommado
being ushered into the L.Keller 1 during an alert, we must then also take
seriously his other accounts as well.  Like, for instance, that he also
saw people gassed to death with Zyklon B in L.Keller 1. I'm more than
willing to accept this. Is Butz?

Dr. Nyiszli's account also sparked a few questions in my mind as I read
it: First, _only_ the Sonderkommado was put into the gas chamber during
the alert. That's only 200 people in _one_ of the L.Kellers that could
easily hold 1,500. Why this disparity if the L.Kellers were gas-tight
air-raid shelters? Especially as it appears that only the Sonderkommandos
in the Krema used it. Why didn¹t the SS and/or civilian workers use this
wonderful gas-tight ³air-raid shelter² if  there were such fears of poison
gasses being used by the Allies? 

As supporting evidence that  the civilian workers didn¹t use the L.Kellers
as air-raid shelters I would note that during the September 13, 1944, 
raid the IG Farben plant at Dwory several bombs were  accidental dropped
on Birkenau. One hit the railroad embankment leading to the camp and the
spur leading to Kremas II and III. Another landed _between_ the tracks on
the spur and hit  a BOMB SHELTER, killing 30 civilian  workers. (Gilbert,
_Auschwitz and the Allies_, p.315.) 

Why did, in fact, civilian workers use a smaller bomb shelter, one that
there is no evidence that was gas-tight, on the ramp between the Kremas? 
Of course, this "mystery" clears up if one accepts that the L.Kellers were
indeed homicidal gas chambers and that operational security necessitated
that nobody but the SS come into contact with the Sonderkommando at the
Kremas, thus Kremas were off-limits to all but the SS. Furthermore, in
lieu of any _real_ air-raid shelters  being available to the
Sonderkommandos, L.Keller 1 was the next best thing for them to use as it
was a semi-underground structure perpendicular to the Krema, which being
one of the largest structures in Birkenau, would have certainly been a
target if the Allies had chosen to bomb Birkenau.  

Second, Dr. Nyiszli reminds the reader that _if_ the SS had wanted to they
could have liquidated the Sonderkommando by simply _closing_ the door to
L.Keller 1 and dropping the Zyklon into the introduction columns. Now that
too is interesting in that since when did bomb shelters have doors that
could be opened (and closed) _only_ from the OUTSIDE? That this was the
case becomes quite apparent from Henryk Tauber's account of Krema II,
where he describes the door to L.Keller 1:

"...It was a wooden door, made of two layers of short pieces of wood
arranged like parquet. Between these layers there was a single sheet of
material sealing the edges of the door and the rabbets of the frame were
also fitted with sealing strips of felt. At about head height for an
average man this door had a round glass peephole, On the other side of the
door, i.e. on the gas chamber side, this opening was protected by a
hemispherical grid. This grid was fitted because people in the gas
chamber, feeling they were going to die, used to break the glass of the
peep-hole. But the grid still did not provide sufficient and similar
incidents recurred. The opening was blocked with a piece of metal or wood.
The people going to be gassed and those in the gas chamber damaged the
electrical installations, tearing the cables out and damaging the
ventilation equipment. The door was closed hermetically from the corridor
side by means of [two] iron bars which were screwed tight [by means of two
angle bolts which screwed through the catches onto the bars, which were
themselves fitted with handles]." (Pressac, _Technique_, p.483.) 

Since when do purpose-designed air-raid shelters have wooden doors with
glass peep-holes that have a protective iron grid on the INSIDE (to
protect the glass from the victims¹ attempts at breaking it),  and are
closed using iron bars that are screwed tight from the OUTSIDE? They
don't, of course. But  the homicidal gas chambers of  the Kremas did. 

And since when did air-raid shelters have HCN gas detectors? HCN
munitions, to my knowledge, were not in the chemical weapons arsenal of
any combatant during WWII. They certainly weren't used. Other chemical
warfare agents, such as phosgene, produced far more deaths and casualties
than the combat use of Vincennite (HCN artillery) in WWI. (cf. Schulz,
_Text-Book on the Chemical Service_, pp.13-14). Only the French used
Vincennite in WWI -with dismal results. (cf. Vedder, _The Medical Aspects
of Chemical Warfare_, p.84.) From such experiances with Vincennite on the
battlefield it was concluded that HCN was not a very effective war gas and
further development was curtailed in favor of blister, blood, and nerve
agents. 

Why then, if the military threat from HCN was basically zero, did L.Keller
1 have HCN gas detectors? cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.432.)  The reason
why, of course, is self-evident when one instead considers that L.Keller 1
was a homicidal gas chamber in which the lethal agent used was HCN (i.e.
Zyklon B). 

Then there¹s also the little issue of the Zyklon B introduction columns in
the ceiling. What is interesting though is that along the roof of L.Keller
1 were four holes measuring about 70 cm x 70 cm. that led directly into
the gas chambers via the introduction columns. Since when do the roofs of
air-raid shelters have holes big enough for a man to fall through? Holes
that would weaken the structural integrity of a air-raid shelter? (For
that matter, why did this ersatz air-raid shelter have a concrete roof
only about  20 cm or thick.)  They don't, of course,  but the homicidal
gas chambers of Kremas II and III did. 

[snip]

> ...I am struck by the humorous simplicity of the theory offered here.

Given the "simplicity" (simple-mindedness may be a better choice of words)
of Butz's inane rationalizations in his grasping at straws to explain why
the homicidal gas chambers of the Kremas were instead gas-tight air-raid
shelters, I cannot help but to be struck by the (unintentional) humor- and
rampant hypocrisy -in his disparaging comment.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  9 19:33:30 PDT 1996
Article: 63945 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 15:42:01 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 206
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In article <3232e6ab.1191103@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
> >
> ># Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
> ># and half hours to cremate one body,
> >
> >Senility, Tommy, is a sad thing to watch. You must have 
> >forgotten that the sources posted here - taken directly
> >off the cremation web site - state that, when the furnace
> >is already hot, cremation takes less than one hour.
> 
> "Less than an hour"? That is for one body right? Is it 59
> minutes, 40 minutes, 20 minutes 20 minutes, 5 minutes or 5 seconds.

Irrelevent to the discussion, Moran. All that was necessary was for Dr.
Keren to show that your claim of "two and half hours to cremate one body"
was innaccurate and misleading. This he did. 

> >And, as has been pointed here numerous times, the Topf patent
> >of 1953 estimates 30-45 minutes for cremation. Topf is the
> >same firm that built the Auschwitz-Bireknau furnaces.
> 
> And then there is the problem of opening a door to interior that
> is red hot to cold air. 

Happens all the time, Moran. No problem. Or are you suggesting that modern
crematory furnaces don't have to open the muffle door to charge the
muffle? Your documented evidence of this is?  

> Most human beings become aware of what happens
> when they suddenly expose a very hot object to a cold medium or vice
> versa. Crack. Even if the interior is fire clay, manufactured to
> withstand extreme heats, it is not capable of handling repeated
> radical changes. 

Really? So you are saying that all the furnaces in modern crematorien are
therefore "cracked?" Your documented evidence of this is? 

> >As for putting more corpse than one in a single muffle - there's
> >no difficulty about that; this will not be done during normal
> >cremation procedure, out of respect for the dead, but there's
> >no problem in doing it during "industrial cremation" as in
> >the camps; moreover since there were many children and infants
> >among the victims.
> 
> Whatever you have put here says nothing about cremation rates. In
> the first you said "less than an hour", and we have to recognize this
> means one body, so maybe you would like to come back with something a
> bit more definitive as to time for 4 bodies. 

[snip]

Moran, given that the Topf double-muffle furnace, for instance, could have
incinerated twice the number of corpses in the same amount of time as a
modern crematory furnace- because it had _twice_ the number of muffles
-you are _already_ looking rather foolish. In addition, according to the
operating instructions for the Topf double-muffle furnace, as the remains
of the corpses were _partially_ consumed, falling from the chamotte grid
to the ash channel below, another corpse(s) was charged into the muffle.
This would mean that more than one corpse at a time was incinerated per
muffle [1], thus increasing further the number of corpses incinerated in
comparison to a modern crematory furnace. Finally, when it is taken into
account that _multiple_ corpses were being continously charged into the
muffles of the Topf furnaces, it becomes quite self-evident that the
number of corpses incinerated was far greater than that of a modern
crematory furnace. 

Now to illustrate the above more precisely. Let's assume, for example,
that "less than an hour" means a cremation cycle-time of 50 minutes. The
cremation rate can be expressed thus:   

CR = NC * NM / CT

Where NC is the number of corpses per charge; NM is number of muffles; and
CT is cycle-time [2] between muffle chargings for the furnace.

Now, also assuming that only two corpses at a time are charged per muffle,
the cremation rate per Topf double-muffle furnace is:

CR = 2 * 2 / 0.83 = 4.8 corpses/hr.

How realistic might this number be? Using Krema I, which had three Topf
doubl-muffle furnaces, as an example, we get:

CR = 2 * 6 / 0.833 hr. = 14.4 corpses/hr.

Given a cremation rate of 14.4 corpses per hour, that would mean 345
corpses per 24 hours. This is pretty close to the Auschwitz Bauleitung's
stated official capacity of 340 corpses per 24 hours for Krema I. See:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/furnace-capacity.jpg

In comparison, a civilian crematory furnace, with the same cycle time
would have cremated:

CR = 1 * 1 / 0.83 hr. = 1.2 corpses/hr. 

However, given that the _complete_ cremation time for both the Topf
double-muffle furnaces and a civilain crematory furnace should be the same
because the operating temperatures were basically the same [3], the cycle
time for a single muffle civilian furnace should have a cycle time _equal_
to the complete cremation time. This is due to the regulatory restrictions
against mixing the remains of the deceased. (A retsriction, btw, that
existed in German law in regards to civilian crematorien during the Nazi
era.)  

Therefore, taking into consideration this more realistic cycle-time of 70
min, we see that: 

CR 1 * 1 / 1.17 hr. = 0.85 corpses/hr. 

Given this we can see that the Topf double-muffle furnace had a cremation
rate of over five times that of a modern (or Nazi) civilian crematory
furnace. (4.8 corpses/hr vs. 0.85 corpses/hr.) 

Conversely, if we assume that the complete cremation time for a modern
crematory furnace was 50 minutes (i.e. "less than an hour.") that would
mean that the cycle time for the Topf furnaces, for example, would have
been about 30 minutes. This, of course, is the approximate cremation time
(i.e. cycle-time) report by the various Sonderkommados prisoner
eye-witnesses who were in the Kremas. 

Using this time the Topf triple-muffle furnaces in Krema II, we see that:

CR = 2 * 15 / 0.5 hr. = 60 corpses/hr.

...Or 1440 corpses per 24 hours. This, unsuprisingly, is the cremation
capacities given by the Auschwitz Bauleitung for Kremas II and III. See:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/furnace-capacity.jpg

[snip]

> The name and URL of this "cremation website" Mr.Keren. Lets have it.      

Moran, I believe Dr. Keren was talking about the 
_Internet Cremation Society FAQ_, whis is at:

http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml


Mark

***

1. According to the "Operating Instructions for Coke-Fired Topf
Double-Muffle Incinerating Furnace" [PMO file 11/1, p.31]: 

"...As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from the chamotte
grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forwards
towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for
a further 20 minutes to be fully consumed, then the ashes should be placed
in the container and set side to cool.... In the meantime, further corpses
can be introduced one after the other into the chambers...." (_Technique_,
p.136.) 

2. The cremation cycle-time is not the same as the total amount of time it
would take to _completely_ cremate a corpse. This would mean, essentially,
that if the time it took to _completely_ cremate a corpse was 70 minutes,
and the remains in the ash channel were left to be consumed for 20
minutes, said remains would have fallen from the chamotte grid 50 minutes
after the muffle was charged. Given that as soon as the corspe falls from
the chamotte grid a new corpse can be charged into the muffle, the
implication here is that the muffle is charged every 50 minutes. Hence the
cremation cycle time is 50 minutes. 

3. According to the "Operating Instructions for Coke-Fired Topf
Double-Muffle Incinerating Furnace" [PMO file 11/1, page 31]: 

"...Once the cremation chamber (muffle) has been brought to a good red
heat (aprproximately 800 C), the corpses can be introduced one after
another in the cremation chambers.... After each incineration, the
temperature rises in the furnace. For this reason, care must be taken that
the internal temperature does not rise above 1100 C (white heat)....This
increase in temperature can be avoided by introducing additional fresh
air...." (Ibid. p. 136.) 

These operating instructions came the firm of J A Topf & Sons, the
manufacturer of the furnaces used at Auschwitz (as well as civilain
crematory furnaces) and who asked it to be posted in the furnace room to
ensure that the furncace were operated properly. (cf. Ibid. p.135.)
Clearly, the incineration furnaces were _designed_ to operate between
800-1100 C. 

As to the operating temperatures of modern crematory furnaces, according
to the "Internet Cremation Society FAQ" the "temperature at which
cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most
machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F." 

Source: http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml#At what temperature

1500-1900 F is approximately 815-1037 C. The operating temperature of the
Topf double muffle furnace was about 800-1100 C (1472-2012 F). There was
no appreciable difference in operating temperatures.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep  9 23:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 63984 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 16:27:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 152
Message-ID: 
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>
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In article <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> Taken from a recent upgraded of A. Butz site:
> Vergasungskeller

FYI, Butz's _Vergasungskeller_ article can be found at:

http://pubweb.acns.nwu.edu/~abutz/di/dau/vk.html
 
[snip]

> ...My proposal is that the Vergasungskeller was a gas shelter. It need not 
> have been located within Crematorium II but I believe it most likely was,
> on account of the fact that Crematoria II and III, with their large concrete 
> cellars, were obviously ideal for adaptation as air raid shelters. Indeed
> when this problem is looked at from the point of view of defense against 
> air raids it seems there was no better choice at Auschwitz. The German 
> authorities responsible for providing air raid shelters would have 
> insisted that the necessary embellishments be made to these structures. 
> My reading of some of the relevant chemical warfare literature convinces 
> me that Crematoria II and III were conceived of by the Germans as having 
> this additional role....

Actually, Dr.Miklos Nyiszli mentions the use of L.Keller 1 as an 
air-aid shelter:

"I was in the habit of reading each night before I went to sleep. One
night, while I was doing just that, the lights suddenly went out and the
KZ alarm siren began its dismal wail. Whenever there was an alert we were
taken, conveyed by well-armed SS guards, to the Sonderkommando shelter,
that is to the gas chamber. 

"We crossed the threshold of the gas chamber with heavy hearts. The whole
kommando was present, 200 strong. It was a terrible feeling to remain in
this room, knowing that hundreds of thousands of people had met a
frightful end here. Besides, we knew that the life of the Sonderkommando
was drawing to a close. This being the case, the SS could very easily have
closed the gas chamber doors and dumped four cases of cyclon gas down the
chimneys to liquidate us all. (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.128.) 

Of course, if we are to accept Dr. Nyiszli account of the Sonderkommado
being ushered into the L.Keller 1 during an alert, we must then also take
seriously his other accounts as well.  Like, for instance, that he also
saw people gassed to death with Zyklon B in L.Keller 1. I'm more than
willing to accept this. Is Butz?

Dr. Nyiszli's account also sparked a few questions in my mind as I read
it: First, _only_ the Sonderkommado was put into the gas chamber during
the alert. That's only 200 people in _one_ of the L.Kellers that could
easily hold 1,500. Why this disparity if the L.Kellers were gas-tight
air-raid shelters? Especially as it appears that only the Sonderkommandos
in the Krema used it. Why didn¹t the SS and/or civilian workers use this
wonderful gas-tight ³air-raid shelter² if  there were such fears of poison
gasses being used by the Allies? 

As supporting evidence that  the civilian workers didn¹t use the L.Kellers
as air-raid shelters I would note that during the September 13, 1944, 
raid on the IG Farben plant at Dwory several bombs were accidentally
dropped on Birkenau. One hit the railroad embankment leading to the camp
and the spur leading to Kremas II and III. Another landed _between_ the
tracks on the spur and hit  a BOMB SHELTER, killing 30 civilian  workers.
(Gilbert, _Auschwitz and the Allies_, p.315.) 

Why did, in fact, civilian workers use a smaller bomb shelter, one that
there is no evidence for it bein "gas-tight," on the ramp between the
Kremas?  Of course, this "mystery" clears up if one simply accepts that
the L.Kellers were indeed homicidal gas chambers and that operational
security necessitated that nobody but the SS come into contact with the
Sonderkommando at the Kremas. Thus the Kremas were off-limits to all but
the SS. Furthermore, in lieu of any _real_ air-raid shelters  being
available to the Sonderkommandos, L.Keller 1 was the next best thing for
them to use as it was a semi-underground structure perpendicular to the
Krema, which being one of the largest structures in Birkenau, would have
certainly been a target if the Allies had chosen to bomb Birkenau.  

Second, Dr. Nyiszli reminds the reader that _if_ the SS had wanted to they
could have liquidated the Sonderkommando by simply _closing_ the door to
L.Keller 1 and dropping the Zyklon into the introduction columns. Now that
too is interesting in that since when did bomb shelters have doors that
could be opened (and closed) _only_ from the OUTSIDE? That this was the
case becomes quite apparent from Henryk Tauber's account of Krema II,
where he describes the door to L.Keller 1:

"...It was a wooden door, made of two layers of short pieces of wood
arranged like parquet. Between these layers there was a single sheet of
material sealing the edges of the door and the rabbets of the frame were
also fitted with sealing strips of felt. At about head height for an
average man this door had a round glass peephole, On the other side of the
door, i.e. on the gas chamber side, this opening was protected by a
hemispherical grid. This grid was fitted because people in the gas
chamber, feeling they were going to die, used to break the glass of the
peep-hole. But the grid still did not provide sufficient and similar
incidents recurred. The opening was blocked with a piece of metal or wood.
The people going to be gassed and those in the gas chamber damaged the
electrical installations, tearing the cables out and damaging the
ventilation equipment. The door was closed hermetically from the corridor
side by means of [two] iron bars which were screwed tight [by means of two
angle bolts which screwed through the catches onto the bars, which were
themselves fitted with handles]." (Pressac, _Technique_, p.483.) 

Since when do purpose-designed air-raid shelters have wooden doors with
glass peep-holes that have a protective iron grid on the INSIDE (to
protect the glass from the victims¹ attempts at breaking it),  and are
closed using iron bars that are screwed tight from the OUTSIDE? They
don't, of course. But  the homicidal gas chambers of the Kremas did. 

Since when did air-raid shelters have HCN gas detectors? HCN munitions, to
my knowledge, were not in the chemical weapons arsenal of any combatant
during WWII. They certainly weren't used. Other chemical warfare agents,
such as phosgene, produced far more deaths and casualties than the combat
use of Vincennite (HCN artillery) in WWI. (cf. Schulz, _Text-Book on the
Chemical Service_, pp.13-14). Only the French used Vincennite in WWI -with
dismal results. (cf. Vedder, _The Medical Aspects of Chemical Warfare_,
p.84.) From such experiances with Vincennite on the battlefield it was
concluded that HCN was not a very effective war gas and further
development was curtailed in favor of blister, blood, and nerve agents. 

Why then, if the military threat from HCN was basically zero, did L.Keller
1 have HCN gas detectors? (cf. Pressac, _Technique_, p.432.)  The reason
why, of course, is self-evident when one instead considers that L.Keller 1
was a homicidal gas chamber in which the lethal agent used was HCN (i.e.
Zyklon B). 

Then there¹s also the little issue of the Zyklon B introduction columns in
the homicidal gas chambers. What is interesting though is that along the
roof of L.Keller 1 were four holes measuring about 70 cm x 70 cm. that led
directly into the gas chambers via the introduction columns. Since when do
the roofs of air-raid shelters have holes big enough for a man to fall
through? Holes that would weaken the structural integrity of an air-raid
shelter? (For that matter, why did this ersatz air-raid shelter have a
concrete roof only about 20 cm or thick.)  They don't, of course,  but the
homicidal gas chambers of Kremas II and III did. 

[snip]

> ...I am struck by the humorous simplicity of the theory offered here.

Given the "simplicity" (simple-mindedness may be a better choice of words)
of Butz's inane rationalizations and his grasping at straws to explain why
the homicidal gas chambers of the Kremas were instead gas-tight air-raid
shelters, I cannot help but to be struck by the (unintentional) humor- and
rampant hypocrisy -in his disparaging comment.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 07:19:04 PDT 1996
Article: 63995 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT - sign on here
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 23:15:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <322c56d3.6968993@news.pacificnet.net> <50j470$em6@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca><322c56d3.6968993@news.pacificnet.net> <50j470$em6@nntp.ucs.ubc.ca> <32305ab8.1651155@news.pacificnet.net> <512nvo$4qb2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <512nvo$4qb2@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message <32305ab8.1651155@news.pacificnet.net> - tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> moran)Fri, 06 Sep 1996 17:09:19 GMT writes:
> 
> :>      I notice you have specified your a fan of Ken McVay and Nizkor in
> :>stating you want to be put on the list. Notice there is a specific
> :>statement involved here. Are you ware of that? Say 'Yes' and I'll put
> :>you on the list, or you can do it yourself. Just use the list part so
> :>as to spare the Internet resources. Thanks.
> 
> Please Tom, tell me you're just trolling and you're not really this stupid. 
> Please.

Nope, he _is_ that stupid. Sad but true....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 07:19:05 PDT 1996
Article: 64005 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: "I'm _not_ a Nazi!
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 19:41:30 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References:   <07w9oOev1eXH065yn@login.dknet.dk>  <3234B976.D8@unb.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:64005 soc.culture.german:85521

In article <3234B976.D8@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

> Martin Paegert wrote:
> > 
> > Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) wrote:
> > 
> > > Today the problem is all those people from the ethnic minorities from
> > > the third world who have "invaded" my country.
> > 
> > According to my records the "invasion" in terms of percentage of
> > inhabitans does consist of
> > 
> >          Turkish    0.5 %
> >          Swedish    0.4 %
> >          British    0.2 %
> >          Yusoslavia 0.2 %
> >          ----------------
> >          Sum        1.3 % of inhabitants do not have Danish citizenship
> >          ================
> > 
> > Thus, what "invasion" are you talking about ? 
> 
> Just to point out, of that 1.3% only 0.5% are not actually European and
> if you want to get picky, only 0.7% are actually not Northern European.
> 
> Some invasion there, Ole.

Some whopper of an insecurity complex, more like! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 11:34:07 PDT 1996
Article: 148105 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 16:23:12 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 18:04:32 PDT 1996
Article: 64254 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg is a Swarthy, Geeky Little Jew
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 13:26:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <514882$eeo@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

[snip]

> Hey, Joel--as a descendant of both Vikings and Druids, I hereby grant
> you officially permission to plunder the Aryan cultural heritage.  Go
> for it, Joel.

You mean _plunger_, don't you Bill? Considering that Aryan "culture"
generally resides in a toilet, I think that was the word you were looking
for.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 19:07:00 PDT 1996
Article: 64276 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:41:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
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References:  <513elm$9nj@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <513elm$9nj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Where are the court records proving that Streicher was tried and convicted of
> publishing pornography?  All the rest of your comments are balderdash and 
> double-talk.

Herr Schwarzesel, it has never been my contention that the Nazi pervert
Streicher was convicted and executed for publishing pornography. He was
convicted and executed for crimes against hunanity. 

I know it's a difficult topic for mentally challenged Nazi apologists,
such as yourself, Herr Schwarzesel, but do try and keep up with the
program. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 10 20:12:19 PDT 1996
Article: 64281 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Oswald Pohl
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:34:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
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References: <3234a369.985629@news.awinc.com> <513fjd$9nj@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <513fjd$9nj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> "The Real War Criminals", Louis Marschalko, pg. 135, 
> Christian Book Club, 1958.

How "interesting," Herr Schwarzesel. The actual title, btw, is _The World
Conquerors / The Real War Criminals_ (reprinted 1968). This is the same
Louis Marschalko of whom Charles E. Weber, author of _The ³Holocaust² 120
Questions and Answers_ (published by the IHR) says: "Marschalko considers
the 'Holocaust' claims greatly exaggerated." 

In other words, Herr Schwarzesel, Marschalko appears to be yet another
denier "scholar" who is cited by other denier "scholars." 

Did you actually _read_ Marschalko's book, Herr Schwarzesel? Or did you,
in the incestuous tradition of denier "scholars," simply purloin your
quote from some other denier "scholar?"  Perhaps you would be so kind as
to provide Marschalko's citation for the primary source material he used
to base his claim on that Pohl was "was manhandled with savagery" and had
his face "smeared with faeces [sic]."

As you never bluff, Herr Schwarzesel, I'm sure you'll be happy to provide
this information. Or is that too much to ask a scumbag Nazi apologist? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 11 08:42:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64387 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 03:26:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 252
Message-ID: 
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>  <51577b$qar@Vir.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51577b$qar@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >Actually, Dr.Miklos Nyiszli mentions the use of L.Keller 1 as an
> >air-aid shelter:
> 
>   You mean the same Nyiszli who stated something like that the Leichenkeller
>  1 was 200 meters long rather than 30 meters ?

Yes, the same Nyiszli who _you_ tried (and failed) to use to "prove" that
the wire mesh Zyklon B introduction columns were made of concrete. 

> >Of course, if we are to accept Dr. Nyiszli account of the Sonderkommado
> >being ushered into the L.Keller 1 during an alert, we must then also take
> >seriously his other accounts as well.  Like, for instance, that he also
> >saw people gassed to death with Zyklon B in L.Keller 1. I'm more than
> >willing to accept this. Is Butz?
> 
>  Doubtfull, unless he's enough idiot to believe that a guy who is supposed
>  to have spend many months there is able to miscalculate the 'gas chamber'
>  dimension by a factor 7.

Indeed it is hard to suppose otherwise, considering Butz seems incapable
of comprehending the self-evident meaning of "vergasungkeller," given the
contex it was used in by Bischoff. 

>  An were's not talking about the other contradictions.

No, we're not. We are talking about Nyiszli's account that L.Keller 1 was
used by the Sonderkommando (and _only_ the Sonderkommando) as an air raid
shelter. If one were to refuse Nyiszli's account then there is basically
no other evidence (that I'm aware of) that confirms that L.Keller 1 of
Krema II was used as an air raid shelter. To then claim that L.Keller 1
was used as an air-raid shelter would be unsupported speculation. There
_is_ evidence, however, that an air-raid shelter existed- and _was_ used
-on the ramp between Kremas II and III. (cf. _Auschwitz and the Allies_,
p.315.) 

>  By the way could you tell me: where Nyiszli is born...

Hungary. 

...if there's any birth certificate that can proove it...

Dr. Nysizli wrote that he graduated from the Medical School of Frederick
Wilhelm in Breslau. Probably around 1929. (cf. Nysizli, _Auschwitz_,
p.23.) Why don't you check it out? 

> ...if his name figure on the Auschwitz registration books... 

"May 29 [1944] ... 2,000 Jews, given Nos. A-7741-A-9740, after selection
>from  the RSHA transports from Hungary are admitted to the camp. Some of
the young and healthy individuals are admitted as 'depot prisoners.' Women
and girls are sent to Camp B-IIc. AMong these are the wife and daughter of
Dr. Miklos Nyiszli, whi is given No. A-8450* and then transferred to the
Monowitz A.C. of Auschwitz III. The remaining people are killed in the gas
chambers." (_Auschwitz Chronicles_, p.636.) 

"*Dr. Miklos Nyizsli, anatomist and pathologist, is transferred at the end
of June from the Monowitz camp back to Camp section B-IIf and assinged to
SS Camp Doctor Mengele to work the laboratory and the autopsy room of
Krematorium III." (Ibid. p.636fn.) 

>  ...or if he was burried somewhere, when he died...

That is generally the custom.... 

>  ...if he has ever appear with his photo in a newspaper, if he as ever gives 
> an interview to a journalist, or a press conference ?

Did he? 

> >Since when did air-raid shelters have HCN gas detectors? HCN munitions, to
> >my knowledge, were not in the chemical weapons arsenal of any combatant
> >during WWII. They certainly weren't used. Other chemical warfare agents,
> >such as phosgene, produced far more deaths and casualties than the combat
> >use of Vincennite (HCN artillery) in WWI. (cf. Schulz, _Text-Book on the
> >Chemical Service_, pp.13-14). Only the French used Vincennite in WWI -with
> >dismal results. (cf. Vedder, _The Medical Aspects of Chemical Warfare_,
> >p.84.) From such experiances with Vincennite on the battlefield it was
> >concluded that HCN was not a very effective war gas and further
> >development was curtailed in favor of blister, blood, and nerve agents.
> 
>   I've already respond to that weeks ago. And as usual you bring back this
>  as if I hadn't....

Oh, yes, I see. You were beating _that_ dead horse again. Perhaps you'd
care to breifly explain again why, if Zyklon B was used to "disinfect" (I
presume you meant _disinfest_?) L.Keller 1, the residual level of HCN
found, as reported by the Institute of Forensic Research*, Cracow, don't
support your claim? 

*

> ...They disinfected the morgues because of the typhus epidemy.

Oh, please. The typhus epidemic was around July-October of 1942,(cf.
_Technique_, pp.187-188.) Krema II wasn't handed over to the SS until
March 31, 1943. (Ibid. p.227.) Kremas II-V  didn't even _exist_ when the
typhus epidemic was raging. How, then, could L.Keller 1 be "disinfected"
if it wasn't even built yet? 

>  The gas detector that the german used were small colorimetric papers to
>  test the residual traces of zyklon B in a room. 

Really? What company manufactured them? 

>  There's several rooms in the Krema 2, and if I remember well the only 
>  letter that Pressac found talks about 10 'gas testers'. 

"10 gas detectors," actually. For "immediate shipment." (cf. _Anatomy_,
p.230.) Given that Pru"fer's memo was dated March 2, 1943, nearly five
months _after_ the 1942 typhus epidemic at Auschwitz ended, and several
weeks _before_ the first homicidal gassings took place in L.Keller 1, your
explination is a bit weak. More realistic is Pressac's explination that
these 10 gas detectors were _immediately_ required to test the
aeration/deaeration capability of L.Keller 1. (cf. Ibid.; _Technique_,
p.432.)

>  Those colorimetric papers couldn't be reused. So they can't account for 
>  hundreds of gassing.

But they certainly _could_ account for the testing of the ventilation
system for L.Keller 1.

>  I've no problem to explain why there was as much as 10 'gas testers': 
>  there's several rooms in the crema 2, the underground part and 
>  the upper part also. So I accept the explanation that this building was 
>  disinfect once or twice during the war.

And your that evidence Krema II was deloused "once or twice" using Zyklon
B is?  

>  Leuchter found small cyhanide traces on the walls of the Leichenkeller
>  but he found also small traces of ferro-cyhanide on the walls of the
>  washrooms of Krema 1. 

So? Krema I is not Krema II. Are we not discussing L.Keller 1 of Krema II?
Please do try and stay on track here. 

>  To that you responded that head lice can't be a
>  carrier of typhus and that bodie's lice was the real danger, and that
>  bodie's lice quit the corpse as soon as clothes are removed. Agreed.

Actually, I believe what I wrote was that the body louse inhabits clothing
and bedding. The victims were forced to remove their clothes in L.Keller 2
prior to being murdered in L.Keller 1. 

>  So your claim was that the German didn't need to disinfect a morgue (or
>  the entire crema building) since bodie's lice had already quit the corpses
>  long before.

I do believe I pointed out that since the victims removed their clothes in
L.Keller 2, and that the clothes were taken to the delousing facilities,
the corpses would not be wearing louse-infested garmments when they were
killed in L.Keller 1.

[snip]

>    ...And since Pressac back his claim with a document, this mean also that 
>    they were not more 'fancy' in their approach for the krema 2.

Exact citation, please? 

>  2) Inmates were working in the krema 2 and could bring lice there. Bodie's
>    lice. In such a case, the crema 2 was nothing else than an ordinnary
>    building that needed to be disinfect since lice can lives hours without a
>    body.

Only the Sonderkommando were allowed in the Kremas. Only the Sonderkomando
lived in the Kremas. The Sonderkommando, btw, lived in rather hygenic
conditions, with fresh clothes and linens and access to showers, plenty of
food, etc. In fact, according to Nyiszli, the Sonderkommando were
_required_ to bathe twice a day. (cf. Nysizli, _Auschwitz_, pp.43-45,69.)
And, of course, the best defense against typhus is good hygiene. 

>  3) Since the documents itself talks about an undressing room and I accept
>    the version that the bodies were undressed there (LK-2)...

Interesting. You accept that "the bodies were undressed" in L.Keller 2.
How odd, don't you think, that you are suggesting that the "bodies" were
first undressed (by the Sonderkmmando) in L.Keller 2 and then _moved_ (by
the Sonderkomando) to L.Keller 1? All to _prevent_ lice from infesting
Krema II (i.e. the Sonderkommando). Such a contorted rationalization to
say the least! 

Do you realize that you are arguing that to _prevent_ the Sonderkommando
>from  contracting typhus they came into lenghty contact with the victims'
clothes (from undressing the "bodies") and from moving the victims from
L.Keller 2 to L.Keller 1? Then, to take the cake, you say that L.Keller 1
was "disinfected" with Zyklon B to _prevent_ the Sonderkommando, after
they would have handled lice-infested clothes and "bodies" for _hours_,
>from  being infested with lice! How absurd.  

You are being doubly absurd when one further considers that the ruins of
L.Keller 2 show no evidence of HCN residues.  Why, if _both_ L.Kellers
held lice infested "bodies," was only, as you claim, L.Keller 1
"disinfected?"

> ...than bodie's lice could invade the crema 2 by another way

Such as? 

BTW, why would (dead) "bodies" need benches in L.Keller 2? That L.Keller 2
contained benches for the _live_ victims there is little doubt. Why was
the corspe chute of Krema II dismantled and boarded up when sliding
corspes down the chute would have been much easier than _carrying_ them
down the stairs into L.Keller 2?  Or why would the gas-tight door that
could only opened from the _outside_, and which contained a protective
wire grid over the peephole on the _inside_ be necessary for a morgue?
Even more astounding, why was L.Keller 1, if it was indeed a morgue (which
are generally kept cold to slow decomposition), intially _heated_ with hot
air from the three small rooms housing the forced draft system? (cf.
_Technique_, pp. 217, 223, 483, 486.) 

>    Now what strike me today is that in spite of the fact that I never eared
>    about any witness (sonderkommando) who talked about the use of those small
>    gas testers before the removal of bodies, you make big noise about those
>    ones as if they would proove your case.

And who said that the gas detectors where to be used on a daily basis to
protect the Sonderkommando? Only you it seems. Again, Pressac's more
realistic argument is that they were needed _immediately_ because the
ventilation system f L.Keller 1 was nearly complete and about to be
tested. The SS simply wanted to know if the L.Keller would be properly
aerated after a homicidal gassing. Hence, the need for the gas detectors. 

> >Then there¹s also the little issue of the Zyklon B introduction columns in
> >the homicidal gas chambers. What is interesting though is that along the
> >roof of L.Keller 1 were four holes measuring about 70 cm x 70 cm. that led
> 
>   They were not before 1945.

They were not _what_ before 1945? Not there? If _that_ is your contention
I suggest you reconsider it. There is ample evidence- both photographic,
documentary, and eyewitness, that the Zyklon B introductin columns existed
in L.Keller 1 before 1945. This, of course, also applies to the holes in
the roof of L.Keller 1 through which the introduction columns passed. (cf.
_Anatomy_ p.167; _Technique_, pp.228-229, 232, 340, 354 469, 484, 485,
486.)


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 11 08:42:51 PDT 1996
Article: 64388 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 03:38:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <513re2$cq2@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <515sau$6v2@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <515sau$6v2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
> >  rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  : I won't discuss the activities of the White Rose under a Streicher 
> >  : post.  If you want to discuss it elsewhere, repost it.  Besides, the 
> >  : activities of the white rose were considered treason during war-time.  
> >  : People were and are executed for treason.
> >  
> >  No, wait--this just became relevant to the Streicher thread.  The 
> >  members of the White Rose, Mr. Blackmore, did nothing more than 
> >  express their opinion; that opinion was considered treasonous, and
> >  they were executed.  In your view, Streicher did nothing more than
> >  express his opinion; that opinion was considered an incitement to
> >  murder, and he was hanged for it.  If you're going to support one
> >  and deplore the other, you're going to have to do it on other than
> >  legal grounds.
> >  
> >  Bill
> >  
> >>>>
> I believe you are stretching things a bit here, Mr. Anderson.  In the first 
> place,treason against the State is an almost universal offense punishable by 
> law.If you want to bring the Streicher post in on this, what he wrote wasn't 
> treason.

But it _was_ a crime against humanity, Herr Schwarzesel. 

> Also, I would have to question the authority of a tribunal composed 
> exclusively by the victors.

I would expect no less from a scumbag Nazi apologist, Herr Schwarzesel.
Question to your (black) heart's content. Feel free, even, to stomp your
feet and hold your breath 'till you turn blue in the face. 

The fact remain, however, that Streicher was convicted and executed for
his crimes against humanity. And _that_ is the judgement of history, as
well as the IMT. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 11 23:18:05 PDT 1996
Article: 64538 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!swrinde!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:04:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <50m51o$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <50p5qp$b7g@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <50tinq$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <513up3$hdl@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>
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In article <513up3$hdl@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) wrote:

> ..."Revisiniosm" isn't based on anything because it doesn't put forward 
> anything. "Revisionism" exhaust itself in questioning a general consensus 
> without presenting any evidence why the commonly assumed standpoint
should be > wrong. "Revisionism" starts at and stops with plain denying.
That's all. 
> Therefore "revisionism" is a matter entirely in the "revisionists" 
> mind - a belief.

Nele,

That was quite succint. Profound even. But if I may, I would add: a
twisted and misanthropic belief. 

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:11 PDT 1996
Article: 64567 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Killing two birds with one stone
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:55:44 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: <5182j4$l9p@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5182j4$l9p@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> I am posting this notice for the information of any browsers who may
> have been following any of the threads between myself and Mark Van
> Alstine and Rajiv Gandi.  I am serving notice that there shall be no further
> direct communication between myself and either of these two people on this 
> web-site...

It's a USENET newsgroup, Herr Schwarzesel. Not a web-site. 

... until that time arrives when they desist  from the use of profanity
and  name-calling, and decide to abide by common rules of courteous
conduct when replying to a posting on this web-site....  

It's a USENET newsgroup, Herr Schwarzesel. Not a web-site. 

> The use of vilifying tactics is no argument, but a sign of
> frustration and an admission of defeat.  

Ah, so you admit defeat,  Herr Schwarzesel? Good. 

> Until such time as when the above-named individuals decide to comport
themselves with dignity, they shall to all intents and purposes be
ignored.

The truth that you are a scumbag Nazi apologist getting under your thin
skin, Herr Schwarzesel? Good.

> This is not the Wally George show, nor Howdy Doody's Peanut Gallery, where a 
> circus gallery of cheer-leaders effectively cuts off any attempts at
debate by 
> shouting down a person who  makes a statement.  

Indeed. Perhaps you could speak to your denier bretheren about this? In
prticular, to Herr Wankermeister and the Giwer-boob? 

> Indeed, if every person from Nizkor should decide to employ such tactics
tomorrow, I shall not be driven from this web-site.  

It's a USENET newsgroup, Herr Schwarzesel. Not a web-site. 

> What I propose to do,  rather than respond individually to either of these 2
> persons, or any other such person who may decide to use these vilification 
> tactics in the future, is simply  avoid any confrontational dialogue.  

Pity. And I was _so_ enjoying watching your thrash about in apoplectic
fits of impotence,  Herr Schwarzesel. 

> If they happen to post something relevant to the subject under discussion, 
> then I shall undertake to address the points in > question under a new post.  

Duck and weave to avoid being taken to task for your scumbag Nazi
apologia, Herr Schwarzesel. You can run, but you can't hide.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:12 PDT 1996
Article: 64609 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi142.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: It is libel to call me a nazi.
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:34:47 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References:  <50qnn3$ktn@news.enter.net> <$trCoOev10w6065yn@login.dknet.dk> 
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In article <$trCoOev10w6065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article <50qnn3$ktn@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >
> >       This is such utter nonsense that it is unbeleivabler.  You have
openly 
> >stated that you are a white supremacist.  You have openly supported white 
> >supremacist and neo-nazi organizations.  Your own program calls for
depriving 
> >people of citizneship based on race and expelling them from their own
country.  If 
> >you believe in "democracy" the moon is made of green cheese.
> >
>  I can see no reason for changing the Danish political and social system 
> just because I want to do away the horrible multiethnic society.

Not even if that is the _only_ possible way to achieve your goals? 

Well, that solves _that_ problem then, as a snowball has a better chance in
you-know-where than the "Danish political and social system" embracing
neo-Nazism- and Mr. Kreiberg's Nazi ideas. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:13 PDT 1996
Article: 64614 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBelling is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:45:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 194
Message-ID: 
References:  <5183rd$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5183rd$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  The "revisionists" often claim that the memoir of Rudolph Hoess,
> >  commandant of Auschwitz, was "dictated" to him during his trial
> >  in Poland.
> 
> I am not claiming any of the statements you made just now.
> Rather than deal with any of the above right at this point, I would rather 
> first settle the issue of whether or not Hoess was tortured. 

A rather easy issue to settle, Herr Schwarzesel. Ho"ss, in the section of
his memoirs entiled "1945-47" wrote:

"On March 11, 1946, at 11 p.m., I was arrested. My vial of poison had
broken just two days before. The arrest was successful because I was
frightened at being awakened out of a sound sleep. I assumed it was a
robbery because there was a lot of them occurring in the area.

"I was treated terribly by the [British] Field Security Police. I was
dragged to Heide and, of all places, to the same military barracks from
which I had been released eight months before by the British. During the
first interview they gave me liquor and beat me with a whip. It was too
much even for me to bear. The whip was my own. By chance it had found its
way into my wife's luggage. My horse had hardly ever been touched by it,
much less the prisoners. Somehow one of the interrogators probably thought
that I had used it to constantly whip the prisoners. 

"After a few days I was taken to Minden on the Weser River, which was the
main interrogation center in the British zone. There they treated me even
more roughly, especially the first British prosecutor, who was a major.
The conditions in the jail reflected the attitude of the first prosecutor.


"Surprisingly, after three weeks I was shaved, my hair was cut, and I was
allowed to wash myself. My handcuffs had not been opened since my arrest.
The next day I was taken by car to Nuremberg together with a prisoner of
war who had been brought over from London as a witness in Fritzsche's
defense. Compared to where I had been before, imprisonment with the IMT
[International Military Tribunal] was like staying in a health spa. I was
housed in the same building as the principal defendants [Hermann Go"ring,
Rudolf Hess, Albert Speer, Julius Streicher, and others] and could see
them daily as they were being led to court. There were daily inspections
by the Allied countries. I was constantly displayed as a particularly
interesting animal. 

"I had been brought to Nuremberg because Kaltenbrunner's defense attorney
demanded me as a witness for his defense. I could never understand, and it
is still not clear to me even today, how I of all people could help
Kaltenbrunner's defense. Even though the prison conditions were good in
every aspect and I had tie t read from an extensive library made available
to us, the interrogators were really not pleasant. Physically there was no
problem, but more so were the mental and emotional effects. I cannot
really blame the interrogators-they were all Jews. I was for all intents
and purposes psychologically dissected. That's how accurately they wanted
to know everything-this was also done by Jews.[2] They also left me with
no doubt whatsoever what was going to happen to me.

"On May [1946], our wedding anniversary, I was driven to the airport with
von Burgsdorff and Bu"hler and handed over to the Polish authorities. We
flew in an American plane to Warsaw via Berlin. Although we had been
treated very politely on the flight, I remembered my experiences in the
British Zone. I also thought of the hints about how I would be treated in
the East. I feared the worst. The expressions and gestures of the
onlookers at the airport during our arrival also did not exactly inspire
any confidence in me. 

"After arriving in prison several officials approached me immediately and
showed me their Auschwitz tattoo numbers. I could not understand them, but
I do not suppose they wished me well. However, I was not beaten. The
imprisonment was very strict and totally isolated. I was often viewed and
checked. The nine weeks I spent became very difficult for me because there
was absolutely nothing to keep my mind occupied. I had nothing to read,
nor was  allowed to write.

"I arrived on July 30 in Cracow with seven other Germans. We had to wait
quite a while at the railroad station for a car. During that a crown
gathered and angrily cursed at us. Major Go"the was recognized
immediately.[3] If the car had not arrived when it did, we would have been
bombarded with stones.

"During the first weeks' imprisonment was quite tolerable, but suddenly
the prison caretakers were changed people overnight. From their behavior
and conversation, which I could not understand but could figure out, I
could deduce they wanted to 'finish me off.' On a regular basis I received
the smallest piece of bread and barely a ladleful of their soup. Never
again did I get a second portion, even though each day there were
leftovers. These were distributed in the cells next to me. Whenever a
guard wanted to open my cell to give me some leftover food, he was
immediately whistled back.

"Here is where I learned the power of the prison caretakers. They had
absolute rule. They confirmed to me gain, clearly enough, my contention
about the tremendous and often disastrous power which prisoner trusties
can exert over there fellow prisoners. Here is where I also came to fully
understand the three categories of guards. 

"If the prosecutor's office had not intervened, they would have finished
me off, most of all mentally and emotionally. They almost had me at the
breaking point. This was not feeble hysteria. I was almost totally
finished at that time, and I can stand quite a bit. Life had often enough
been hard for me, but the psychological torture of these satans was too
much. I was not the only one who was mistreated like this. They also badly
mistreated a few of the Polish prisoners. They have long since this
position and it is gratifyingly quiet. 

"I have to openly confess I never would have expected to be treated do
decently and so kindly in a Polish prison as I have been since the
intervention of the prosecutor's office. (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_,
pp.179-181.) 


"2. Ho"ss was one of the few who could, and would give precise information
about every aspect of the mass killings. In fact, he answered everything
asked of him. He even gave personal information to Gilbert in 1946 that he
felt necessary to contradict in 1947 in order to protect his wife and
family." (Ibid. p.180fn.) 

"3. SS Major Amon Leopolt Go"the was in charge of the liquidation of the
Cracow ghetto in March 1943. He was also the commander of the Jewish
concentration camp in Plaszow near Cracow. He was sentenced to death by
the Polish Peoples' Court on September 5, 1946. Brozat, p.146." (Ibid.
p.181fn.) 
 

Further more, Ho"ss, in the section of his memoirs entitled "Some Final
Thoughts," also wrote:

"...In the British Zone, under the strictest constant surveillance, , I
was able to study enough of the three categories of guards. In Nuremberg
individual mistreatment was not possible since all the prisoners there
were under constant observation of the jail officers. 

"It was only by luck that a third person walked into the lavatory at the
Berlin airport during a stopover, thus preventing my being mistreated.

"There was one, just one of the prison guards in Warsaw, who as soon as he
came on duty in our cell block, ran from cell to cell, wherever there were
Germans, and indiscriminately beat them. This happened in spite of the
fact, as far as I could observe and judge from my cell, that the prison
was run properly. With the exception of von Burgsdorff, who got away with
only a few slaps in the face, every German there was beaten by this young
man, approximately eighteen to twenty years old, out of whose eyes
flickered cold hatred. He said he was a Polish Jew, even though he did not
look like it at all. He certainly never got tired of beating us. Only when
one of his colleagues on duty gave him a warning sign that someone was
coming would he interrupt his activity. I am firmly convinced that none of
the higher officials or the prison warden would have approved of his
behavior. Several times I was asked by visiting officials about how I was
treated, but I kept this secret because only one of them was like that.
The other guards were more or less strict and unfriendly, but no one ever
approached me.

"...I would never have allowed myself to open up about myself or to expose
my most secret inner self had it not been for the humanity and
understanding with which I have been treated. It has totally disarmed me.
I never could have expected this kind treatment. I owe it to this humane
understanding to contribute, as far as it is possible for me, and to shed
light on events which need clarification. I do ask, however, that all of
my tender emotions, my most secret doubts, not be revealed  to the public.
May the general public simply go  on seeing me as the bloodthirsty best,
the cruel sadist, the murderer of millions, because the broad masses
cannot conceive the Kommandant of Auschwitz in any other way. They would
never be able to understand that he also had a heart and that he was not
evil.

"These notes comprise 114 pages. I have written all this down voluntarily
and without being forced.  (Ibid. pp.184,186.) 


> After that, I would be most willing to address a new thread on Hoess and what 
> he allegedly wrote. 

Address away, Herr Schwarzesel. Please remember to fully cite your sources. 

> This helps to zero in on the point at issue.  

And which point is that, Herr Schwarzesel? 

> I would hope that you don't have any objections.

None at all, Herr Schwarzesel. I once more look forward to debunking your
Nazi apologia. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:14 PDT 1996
Article: 64621 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FAX me an outline of your COCK!
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:00:46 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <5164h8$h96@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <517tph$44e@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <517tph$44e@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> This poor woman is going to get a faxed tracing of Tom Moran's 
> head...

Are you sure the resolution is high enough? It is, after all, such a
_small_ head....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:15 PDT 1996
Article: 64632 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 00:39:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References: <3236d933.632225@news.zilker.net> <5186nb$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5186nb$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> My point is that Van Alstine attempted to use the document which Goering 
> addressed to Heydrich as actual evidence to support the contention that 
> Goering knew the Jews were to be exterminated at this point in time, and that 
> he was commissioning Heydrich to do it....  

To be precise, Herr Schwarzesel, _you_ claimed that "Goering is simply
asking for the logistic details, which would fall under the competence of
the Four Year Plan," to which I replied"

"Bullfeathers, Herr Schwarzesel. Go"ring was giving Heydrich orders for
something far different than a request for mere "logistic details," as is
self evident by:

"'...I hearby charge you with making all necessary preperation with regard
to organizational and financial matters for bringing about a complete
solution of the Jewish question in the German sphere of influence in
Europe....'

"Sure sounds like Go"ring was ordering Heydrich to prepare for the
commencement of the Final Solution to the Jewish Question, Herr
Schwarzesel.

>...Further, my point is that the document does not suggest this at all.  

Indeed that was your "point." What other position could a dedicated Nazi
apologist, such as yourself, take? Did you not also say "there is nothing
sinister about this document?" To which I replied: 

"Of course there is, Herr Schwarzesel. According to Hilberg:

"'The order of July 31 marks a turning point point in anti-Jewish history.
With the dispatch of that order, the centuries-old policy of expulsion was
terminated and a new policy of annihilation was innagurated. As such the
cryptic Go"ring letter has had an importance which far transcends the
brief span of the German destruction process.'" (Hilberg, _Destruction_,
p.262.) 

This, of course, brings us to the issue that you have claimed that "no
serious historian believes that an extermination program was devised
against the Jews at this date."

Given that Hilberg most certainly qualifies as a "serious historian" and
that it is self-evident from his (above) anlysis regarding Go"ring's order
of July 31 that "an extermination program was devised against the Jews at
this date," your claim otherwise are shown to be worthless, Herr
Schwarzesel.  

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 07:34:16 PDT 1996
Article: 64633 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 02:48:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 182
Message-ID: 
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com>  <51577b$qar@Vir.com>  <518207$3an@Vir.com>
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In article <518207$3an@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> 

[snip]

> >>  By the way could you tell me: where Nyiszli is born...
> 
> >Hungary.
> 
>   I know. But where?

Well, Hungary is Europe, you know.... 

> >>....if there's any birth certificate that can proove it...
> 
> >Dr. Nysizli wrote that he graduated from the Medical School of Frederick
> >Wilhelm in Breslau. Probably around 1929. (cf. Nysizli, _Auschwitz_,
> >p.23.) Why don't you check it out?
> 
>  I can check in the book, what I'm saying is that I'm unaware about any
>  solid proof that he ever existed....

And what I'm saying is for _you_ to go look in the records of the Medical
School of Frederick Wilhelm in Breslau and see if Nysiszli graduted from
there. 

[snip]

> This is a begining. However, I don't know if the autor based his statement 
> on the registers or a book.

The why don't you go to the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum and check the
camp registration to see if that number was issued and to whom it may have
been issued? 

You might also try looking in the German archives for documents sent from
Auscwhitz to the "Institut fu"r Rassenbiologische und Anthropologische
Forschungen." Nyiszli also wrote the he "drafted numerous affidavits of
dissection and forensic medicine findings which" which he signed with his
tattoo number. (cf. Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_, p.11.) 

[snip]

> >> ...They disinfected the morgues because of the typhus epidemy.
> 
> > Oh, please. The typhus epidemic was around July-October of 1942,(cf.
> > _Technique_, pp.187-188.) Krema II wasn't handed over to the SS until
> > March 31, 1943. (Ibid. p.227.) Kremas II-V  didn't even _exist_ when the
> > typhus epidemic was raging. How, then, could L.Keller 1 be "disinfected"
> > if it wasn't even built yet?
> 
>    IT WAS BUILT! You _know_ the vergasungskeller letters which state in
>   january 1943 that the ovens were used (the fired were started) and which
>   state that the Vergasungskeller can be used rather than the morgue (so
>   to stock bodies)....

Indeed. And _you_ know that _the_ typhus "epidemy," the epidemic that
required an extensive delousing program, occurred in 1942, before Krema II
was built. 

>   ....It wasn't finished but operationnal, according to the
>   letter, certanly. The same thing for the typhus epidemy: it never ended.

The typhus _epidemic_ of 1942 most certianly did end.

>   There was peaks, of course, but typhus was still there in 1943, there
>   was several epidemies, but weaker than the 1942 epidemy. 

That's called _endemic_. Typhus was indeed _endemic_ at Auschwitz due to
the abysmal hygenic and barbaric living conditions the prisoners were
subjected to. 

> Typhus continued to kill to a lower extent after 1942.

Indeed it did. But at what rate? During the height of the 1942 typhus
_epidemic_  (July 1942) the mortality rate from typhus passed 4,000 per
month. That's a daily average of 133 deaths. In comparison, from May to
December 1940 the mortality rate was estemated at 220 per month. That's a
daily average of 7.3 deaths. (cf. _Anatomy_, p.214.) 

Given that the Auschwitz Bauleitung claimed that Krema II could incinerate
1,440 corpses per 24 hour period (cf. Ibid. p.165), that averages out to
four corpses per muffle per hour. If assume that the _endemic_ typhus
killed the same numbers after the 1942 epidemic, that would mean that the
daily average number of typhus mortalities could be incinerated by _one_
furnace. There would be no _need_ to put the corpses in L.Keller 1. They
could have been _immediately_ incinerated. In fact, if (as you have argued
before, I believe) _all_ that Krema II did was to incinerate those who
died from "natural" causes, and that Krema II and III could incinerate 120
corses per hour combined, that would just about cover the average daily
mortalities of typhus victims during the 1942 epidemic in ONE HOUR! Take
into consideration Krema IV and V (not to mention the incineration pits)
and it becomes rather obvious that, unless the rate of corpses brought to
the Krema temporarily exceeded the incineration capacity, there was no
_need_ to keep the corpses of typhus victims in L.Keller 1. 

Given a mortality rate in line (or even double or triple) with that of the
_endemic_ typhus period from May to December 1940, and ignoring the
massive numbers of dead from the homicidal gassings, that the incineration
capacity of the Kremas would be exceeded by deaths from typhus would most
likely never have happened. 

[snip]

> >Exact citation, please?

[snip]

> Everybody in the world know that document .

Of course. I just wanted to make sure _you_ did. };-> 

> >Do you realize that you are arguing that to _prevent_ the Sonderkommando
> >from contracting typhus they came into lenghty contact with the victims'
> >clothes (from undressing the "bodies") and from moving the victims from
> >L.Keller 2 to L.Keller 1? Then, to take the cake, you say that L.Keller 1
> >was "disinfected" with Zyklon B to _prevent_ the Sonderkommando, after
> >they would have handled lice-infested clothes and "bodies" for _hours_,
> >from being infested with lice! How absurd.
> 
>   Your logic is tortuous. I'm saying that someone had to remove the
>  clothes of people who died from natural causes 

Who else but the Sonderkommando? 

>  ...that this was done in the undressing room, they had no choice to 
> remove there clothes and this was the normal place to do it. 

Oh, Please. The _logical_ place to do so is in the morgue. As you claim
that L.Keller 1 was _the_ morgue, that's where it would logically been
done. Unless, of course, _you're_ arguing it is logical to haul
lice-infested corpses from one L.Keller to the other? Thus contaminating
_both_ L.Kellers? 

>  Thus, that lice could invade the building.

How did they "invade" the building? Sneak up the stairs? How long do you
think lice will survive on a cold concrete floor? Not to mention, of
course, that Sonderkommando had very good hygeine and showered _twice_ a
day. Again, the best defense against typhus is good hygiene.

>  So the german couldn't be sure that there was no remaining lice 5, 10
>  15 hours after somewhere. 

Which is completely irrelevent to Krema II. All that mattered was that the
Sonderkommando practice good hygiene. This would have been incredibly easy
if the death rate from typhus was less than the incineration rate of the
furnaces as there would be _every_ reason to incinerate them immediately. 

>  ...Nor into the inmates barracks that they were desinfecting elsewhere
(I >  remember perfectly the example Rassinier brought
>  for Buchenwald-Dora).

Which is completely irrelevent to Krema II. 

> >down the stairs into L.Keller 2?  Or why would the gas-tight door that
> >could only opened from the _outside_, and which contained a protective
> >wire grid over the peephole on the _inside_ be necessary for a morgue?
> >Even more astounding, why was L.Keller 1, if it was indeed a morgue (which
> >are generally kept cold to slow decomposition), intially _heated_ with hot
> >air from the three small rooms housing the forced draft system? (cf.
> >_Technique_, pp. 217, 223, 483, 486.)
> 
>   I'm not responding to your questions when they are stupids.

Translated: Mr. Beaulieu has been caught with his pants around his ankles
and a stupid look on his face. Again.

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 14:17:34 PDT 1996
Article: 149153 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:34:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 21:22:35 PDT 1996
Article: 64878 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:01:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 72
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In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> Some reporter had called her [Ilse Koch] the "Bitch of Buchenwald" had
> [also] written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her
> house. And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven
> that the lampshades were made out of goatskin....

[snip]

In light of Jeffrey's claims one might wish to consider the following, a
US Army pathologist's report:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Seventh Medical Laboratory
  APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
  Section of Pathology 

  25 May 1945


  SUBJECT:  Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides 

  TO     :  COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army 
            (ATTN:   JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 


  1.  There were submitted to this laboratory section for 
  examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN 
  from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of 
  Case 81 T.J.A. 

  2.  The description follows: 

  ......

  PIECE C:  Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The 
  upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm. 
  The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper 
  area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the 
  umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm.  ....

  MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen 
  showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. 
  Granular black pigment granules are seen between some 
  of the bundles. 

  3.  Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens 
  are tattooed human skin. 

  For the Commanding Officer, 
  
  (signature)
  REUBEN CARES 
  Major M.C. 
  Chief of Pathology 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 12 22:37:11 PDT 1996
Article: 64887 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:48:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 82
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References: <51afsi$80q@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51afsi$80q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Thre purpose of the original thread was to discuss wether Hoess was tortured
> and beaten into signing a false confession which ends with the words that he
> signs under no compulsion. 

And the Ho"ss's signed confession from his interrogation by the British
can be found where, exactly, Herr Schwarzesel?  

> After his beatings and torments at the hands of the British, he was then
shipped on to the Poles and Soviets....

That is incorrect,  Herr Schwarzesel. Ho"ss was put into the custody of
the IMT, as he was called as a witness for Kaltenbrunner. After his
testimony as a witness for the _defense_ at Kaltenrunner's trial he was
then extradited to Poland to stand trial for crimes against the Polish
people. 

...where undoubtedly he was treated with great tenderness and during which
time he wrote his "autobiography" again "without compulsion".... 

Well, Herr Schwarzesel, not quite "tenderness" and definetly without
compulsion, as Ho"ss himself relates in his memoirs.

> As soon as the "autobiography" was completed, he was promptly hanged. 

Actually,  Herr Schwarzesel, Ho"ss was executed after his conviction for
crimes against the Polish people. His memoirs were bsically completed by
that time. 

> Of course, it all had to be written out in his own hand to "prove" it was 
> composed without threat or duress.  How considerate of the Poles and their 
> Soviet Masters.  

Indeed. That is generally how memoirs, after all, are written, Herr
Schwarzesel.  If Ho"ss hadn't written them they wouldn't be _his_ memoirs.
Your insinuation that Ho"ss wrote his memoirs under duress are based on
what evidence, exactly, Schwarzese? Are you suggesting that Ho"ss had his
memoirs dictated to him by the Soviets? Amazing then that his memoirs are
quite frank about his abuse at the hands of the British, the lack of abuse
at the hands of the IMT, and both the abuse by Polish prison guards and
the intervention by the Polish proscutors office to put a stop to it. 

One can hardly say that Ho"ss's memoirs exhonerates the Allies in their
treatment of him. However, nor can one say that he was tortured into
writing "memoirs" which where dictated to him by the Soviets. What one
_can_ say, as the evidence clearly indicates, was that Ho"ss wrote, of his
own free will, his memoirs which, for the most part, were brutally
truthful. 

That you, Herr Schwarzesel, argue otherwise without a shred of evidence,
simply once more confirms that you are indeed a scumbag Nazi apologist. 

> It was precisely the material written in these "Hoess Memoirs" which 
> precipitated the rise of revisionism. 

And your evidence for this is, Herr Schwarzesel? Holocaust denialism had
pre-WWII antescendents as far back as App, Barnes, and Tansill.
Furthermore, soon after WWII ended Holocaust denialism was used as a means
to mitigate Nazi attrocties and war guilt by such as Barde`che and
Rassiner. The common thread, of course, was not that Ho"ss's memoirs
spurred these peole to write their lies, but blatant anti-Semitism and,
after WWII, the desire to exonerate the Nazis of their terrible crimes.  

> Isn't it curious that he signed the first "confession" declaring all was
> true and written without compulsion-even though the document was written in 
> English-a language he couldn't understand, according to his family.

Again, Herr Schwarzesel, Ho"ss's signed confession from his interrogation
by the British can be found where, exactly? More importantly, Herr
Schwarzesel, was the confession extracted by the British used against
Ho"ss at his trial in Poland? Was it used at Nuremberg? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 01:07:51 PDT 1996
Article: 64908 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - PORNOGRAPHER
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:20:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
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References:  <50qs0l$fe1@juliana.sprynet.com> 
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In article ,
schwartz@infinet.com wrote:

> In article <50qs0l$fe1@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > 6.  You stated that Streicher was convicted of inciting the German
> > people to mass murder the Jews. I replied that his paper had a 
> > subscription list of 400,000 people during the war years, in a nation of 
> > 80,000,000.  Most of the subscribers were obviously old geriatric cases 
> > like Streicher, 
>
> [snip]
>  
> like Hitler?

Or like Ho"ss?  When asked by Gilbert if he "had ever considered whether
the Jews whom he had murdered were guilty or had in any way desrved such a
fate" Ho"ss replied, "Don't you see, we SS men were not supposed to think
about these things; it never occured to us. And besides, it was something
already taken for granted that the Jews were to blame for everything....we
just never heard anything else. It was not just newspapers like _Stu"rmer_
but it was everything we heard. Even our military and ideological training
took for granted that we had to protect Gemrany from the Jews..."
(_Nurmeberg Diary_, p.259.) 

What was that saying about pens and swords? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 01:07:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64912 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Oprah Winfrey next week
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:26:54 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <50pab4$qvp@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <513ubv$hdl@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>
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In article <513ubv$hdl@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE>,
abels@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Nele Abels) wrote:

> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> >She investigates the holocaust.
> >Mon:   Expresses sympathy for survivors who heare maniacal laughtere
> >over fighter plane engines.
> >Tues:  Sympathizes with those who saw the faces of the pilots through
> >closed wagons.
> [and so on]
> 
> What is this sick and lonely man trying to say?

How about something like: 

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe.

"Beware the jabberwock, my son;
The jaws that bite, the claws that snatch!
Beware the Jubjub bird and shun
The frumious bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand;
Long time the manxome foe he sought.
So rested he by the tum-tum tree
And stood a while, and thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
The jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood
And burbled as it came.

One-two!  One-two!  And through and through,
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead and, with its head,
He went galumphing back.

"And hast thou slain the jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day, callooh, callay!"
He chortled in his joy.

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves
And the mome raths outgrabe.


On second thought, _The Jabborwocky_ makes more sense....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 01:07:53 PDT 1996
Article: 64935 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:05:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 79
Message-ID: 
References:  <32389d78.1531089@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32389d78.1531089@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >In continuation to the previous thread, I would still
> >like our "revisionist scholars" to explain the following:
> >
> >Why does a "work camp" need five huge crematoriums with
> >52 cremation furnaces?
> >
> >Did anyone ever hear of a "work camp" with such incredible
> >cremation capacity?
> >
> >
> >-Danny Keren.
> 
> That might be good question if 52 ovens could be proven, and that
> they were used for cremating human beings. You know the story
> Mr.Keren, there isn't anything to show it.

Oh, my. Yet annother banal and indefensible Moranic(tm) proclamation by
Moran. As to the existance of the "52 ovens" (52 _muffles_, atcually), if
one where to examine photos, drawings, and testimonies regarding the
Kremas, one would see that:

In Bauleitung drawings 4287 [a & b] the three double-muffle furnaces are
shown in the floor plan of Krema I. (_Technique_, pp.156-157.) 

In Bauleitung drawing 933 the five triple-muffle furnaces are shown in the
floor plan of Krema II. (Ibid. pp.276-277.) 

In Photo 5 [PMO neg. no. 287 Ludwik series and 20995/495 Kamann series]
the five triple-muffle furnaces of Krema II are shown. (Ibid. p.334.) 

In Photo 6 [PMO neg. no. 291 Ludwik series] the five triple-muffle
furnaces of Krema II are also shown . (Ibid. p.334.) 

In Bauleitung drawing 1678 the one eight-muffle furnace is shoen in the
floor plan of Krema IV. (Ibid. pp.392-393.) 

In Photo 169 the demolished (eight-muffle) furnace of Krema V, with human
remains in it, is shown (_Auschwitz: a history in photgraphs_, p.157.). 

According to Henryk Tauber, a surviving Sonderkommado who worked in the
Krematorien: "...In Krematorium I there were three two-muffle
furnaces...[In Krema II] there were five furnaces, each fired by two
hearths. On the other side, where the exit from the lift was, were the
muffles, three per furnace....Krematorium III was identical in
construction to II, except for the internal differences that the trolleys
for charging the corpses were never used there....Krematorium IV and V
were built on the same plan and situated symetrically on either side of
the road running between construction stage BII and Mexico in the
direction of the new sauna. These Krematorien were each fitted with
two-four muffle furnaces." (_Technique_,  pp.483-498.) 

Also according to Tabuer human corpses were incinerated in these furnaces,
as is indicated by the following phrases: "...the corpses were introduced
into the furnace...because they were the bodies of very thin people they
burned very slowly....fat people burn much faster....First we put in two
adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain." (Ibid.
pp.483-495.) 

Given all this, it is quite evident that the 52 muffles existed in the
Krematorien at Auschwitz. Equally evident is that human beings were
incinerated in them. Supremely evident is that Moran has not examined
photos, drawings, and testimonies regarding the Kremas, but instead
continues to wallow like an anti-Semitic pig in his ignorance and
prejudices. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 09:39:07 PDT 1996
Article: 64973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg is a Swarthy, Geeky Little Jew
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 00:52:42 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 54
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References:  <51as7d$aeo@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <51as7d$aeo@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <514882$eeo@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
> >(william c anderson) wrote:
> 
> >[snip]
> 
> >> Hey, Joel--as a descendant of both Vikings and Druids, I hereby grant
> >> you officially permission to plunder the Aryan cultural heritage.  Go
> >> for it, Joel.
> 
> >You mean _plunger_, don't you Bill? Considering that Aryan "culture"
> >generally resides in a toilet, I think that was the word you were looking
> >for.... 
> 
> >Mark
> 
> It is always good to see the exterminationists reveal the true animus
> behind the Holohoax Tale:  to defame, slander and destroy the White
> culture and race they hate so vehemently.  Verily, we see the primary use
> of the Holocaust Lie.

Au contraire, Herr Wankermeister! You are operating under the false and
bigoted assumption that I consider "Aryan culture" to be equated to "White
culture and race." For that matter you, are under false and bigoted
assumption that there really is indeed something such as "White culture
and race."

I'm always heartily amused when Nazi mongrels, such as yourself, Herr
Wankermeister, try to play the "Aryan" card. You see, Herr Wankermeister,
it is quite likely that I am more "Aryan" than you are. You know, Nordic
complexion, blue eyes, light brown hair, 6'5" and 200 lbs.... Yessiree,
Adolf! I'm a shoe-in for the Ayran recruitment poster. Give some kinky
Nazi lether uniform and  a riding crop, and I could pass for an
"Ubermensch" anytime!  };-> 

But, of course, as we all know this, "Aryan" crap is just that- crap. Nazi
swill for losers, such as yourself, Herr Wankermeister, to drown your
misanthropic sorrows and resentment of your betters in.

Skoal! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 09:39:08 PDT 1996
Article: 64989 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never believe Giwer
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 01:20:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 76
Message-ID: 
References: <514a50$bpv@access5.digex.net> <51arnj$np2@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <51arnj$np2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore wrote:

[snip]

> The complete and final refutation of the "Lampshades out of
>  Human Skin" accusation was due to the diligence and research
>  of American Professor of History Arthur Lee Smith jr., from California
>  State University, who also is a member of the American Committee
>  for the Study of World War Two.  His book, "The Bitch of
>  Buchenwald", The Case of Ilse Koch" appeared in 1983 in
>  Cologne.  He had thoroughly studied and evaluated over 9,000 pages
>  of documents directly relating to the case of Ilse Koch.

Tell us, Herr Schwarzesel, did Professor Smith run across the follwoing
document in his thorough studies and evaluation of "over 9,000 pages of
documents directly relating to the case of Ilse Koch?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Seventh Medical Laboratory
  APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
  Section of Pathology 

  25 May 1945


  SUBJECT:  Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides 

  TO     :  COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army 
            (ATTN:   JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 


  1.  There were submitted to this laboratory section for 
  examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN 
  from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of 
  Case 81 T.J.A. 

  2.  The description follows: 

  ......

  PIECE C:  Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The 
  upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm. 
  The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper 
  area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the 
  umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm.  ....

  MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen 
  showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. 
  Granular black pigment granules are seen between some 
  of the bundles. 

  3.  Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens 
  are tattooed human skin. 

  For the Commanding Officer, 
  
  (signature)
  REUBEN CARES 
  Major M.C. 
  Chief of Pathology 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 09:39:10 PDT 1996
Article: 64993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: thought for the day...
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 13:57:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <515c8b$go5@Vir.com>
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In article <515c8b$go5@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> "When someone has in the mind the liquidation of hundreds of thousands
>  of people, he's hardly ordering colorimetric gas testers by bunch
>  of ten"
> 
> -Confucius

"When one has in mind to test the aeration capability of the ventilation
system of a homicidal gas chamber prior to the  liquidation of hundreds of
thousands of people, one would surely order ten gas detectors."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 15:59:11 PDT 1996
Article: 65184 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Joel Rosenberg is a Swarthy, Geeky Little Jew
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:43:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51c8dj$9u9@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

[snip]

> >Au contraire, Herr Wankermeister! You are operating under the false and
> >bigoted assumption that I consider "Aryan culture" to be equated to
> "White culture and race." For that matter you, are under false and bigoted
> >assumption that there really is indeed something such as "White culture
> >and race."
> 
> >I'm always heartily amused when Nazi mongrels, such as yourself, Herr
> >Wankermeister, try to play the "Aryan" card. You see, Herr Wankermeister,
> >it is quite likely that I am more "Aryan" than you are. You know, Nordic
> >complexion, blue eyes, light brown hair, 6'5" and 200 lbs.... Yessiree,
> >Adolf! I'm a shoe-in for the Ayran recruitment poster. Give some kinky
> >Nazi lether uniform and  a riding crop, and I could pass for an
> >"Ubermensch" anytime!  };-> 
> 
> (laughing)  And I thought you might be Jewish with a German last name by
> your writing. You unwittingly betray a knowledge of your own unique worth,
> and that is good. Even if I had been a mongrel, any honest man of any race
> would concede our greatness in beauty, no?  

"Greatnees in beauty?" Personally, I like the mediteranean and semitic
look myself....

> Our feats of science, of art, the world over.

Oh, right. Like geometry or algerbra, eh? Or the Great Pyramids and the
Great Wall of China? How about the Sistine Chapel, the Temple of Solommon,
and the Hanging Gardens of Babylon? Or Christainity for that matter? 

Give us a break from your racist bullshit, Herr Wankermeister. It ain't
sellin'.  

[snip]

> Joel Rosenberg is a Swarthy, Geeky Little Jew

And you, Herr Wankermeister, are a ideologically deficient and
pathological Nazi mongeral. Personally, given a choice, I'd prefer to
associate with "Swarthy, Geeky Little Jew[s]" anytime. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 15:59:12 PDT 1996
Article: 65187 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:34:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 138
Message-ID: 
References:  <32389d78.1531089@news.pacificnet.net>  <3239681d.1411297@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3239681d.1411297@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >Oh, my. Yet annother banal and indefensible Moranic(tm) proclamation by
> >Moran. As to the existance of the "52 ovens" (52 _muffles_, atcually), if
> >one where to examine photos, drawings, and testimonies regarding the
> >Kremas, one would see that:
> >
> >In Bauleitung drawings 4287 [a & b] the three double-muffle furnaces are
> >shown in the floor plan of Krema I. (_Technique_, pp.156-157.) 
> 
>         Drawings?

Yes. The construction drawings of the Krema that were used by the Nazis. 

> 
> >In Bauleitung drawing 933 the five triple-muffle furnaces are shown in the
> >floor plan of Krema II. (Ibid. pp.276-277.) 
> 
>         Drawing?

Yes. A construction drawing of the Krema that was used by the Nazis. 

> 
> >In Photo 5 [PMO neg. no. 287 Ludwik series and 20995/495 Kamann series]
> >the five triple-muffle furnaces of Krema II are shown. (Ibid. p.334.) 
> 
>         Krema II, photographs?

Yes. A photograph taken by the SS of the five triple muffle furnaces
installed in Krema II.  

> >In Photo 6 [PMO neg. no. 291 Ludwik series] the five triple-muffle
> >furnaces of Krema II are also shown . (Ibid. p.334.) 
> 
>         Krema II, photographs?

Yes. A photograph taken by the SS of the five triple muffle furnaces
installed in Krema II.  

> >In Bauleitung drawing 1678 the one eight-muffle furnace is shoen in the
> >floor plan of Krema IV. (Ibid. pp.392-393.) 
> 
>         Drawing?

Yes. A construction drawing of the Krema that was used by the Nazis. 

> >In Photo 169 the demolished (eight-muffle) furnace of Krema V, with human
> >remains in it, is shown (_Auschwitz: a history in photgraphs_, p.157.). 
> 
> Photo, "Demolished" Krema V? Photo, one muffle, with one human
> remains?

Yes. Pretty gruseome too. 

> >According to Henryk Tauber, a surviving Sonderkommado who worked in the
> >Krematorien: "...In Krematorium I there were three two-muffle
> >furnaces...[In Krema II] there were five furnaces, each fired by two
> >hearths. On the other side, where the exit from the lift was, were the
> >muffles, three per furnace....Krematorium III was identical in
> >construction to II, except for the internal differences that the trolleys
> >for charging the corpses were never used there....Krematorium IV and V
> >were built on the same plan and situated symetrically on either side of
> >the road running between construction stage BII and Mexico in the
> >direction of the new sauna. These Krematorien were each fitted with
> >two-four muffle furnaces." (_Technique_,  pp.483-498.) 
> 
> And then suddenly testimony with a different story to tell than
> the "photos and drawings?

Nope. Your endemic stupidy aside, Moran, Tabuber _confirms_ the drawings
and photos. That there were indeed 52 muffles in the Krematorien at
Auschwitz. 

> >Also according to Tabuer human corpses were incinerated in these furnaces,
> >as is indicated by the following phrases: "...the corpses were introduced
> >into the furnace...because they were the bodies of very thin people they
> >burned very slowly....fat people burn much faster....First we put in two
> >adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain." (Ibid.
> >pp.483-495.) 
> 
> >Given all this, it is quite evident that the 52 muffles existed in the
> >Krematorien at Auschwitz. Equally evident is that human beings were
> >incinerated in them. Supremely evident is that Moran has not examined
> >photos, drawings, and testimonies regarding the Kremas, but instead
> >continues to wallow like an anti-Semitic pig in his ignorance and
> >prejudices. 
> 
> Maybe you should have included photo from Nora Levin's book, "The
> Holocaust", a single oven with caption, "... and a furnace, probably
> from Auschwitz, for burning bodies".

Why don't _you_? Tired of driving nails into your own coffin, Moran? 

> The caption starts off, "An estimated two million Jews were
> exterminated at Auschwitz ..."

And? What has this to do with your specious insinuations that 52 muffles
didn't exist at Auschwitz, and that human corpses weren't incinerated in
them? Why nothing of course. Just another example of you behaving like an
anti-Semitic  Nazi pig. 

> You say the source of all this you have put forth is from a book
> titled "Technique"?

Yep. As if you haven't a clue as to the book I'm reffering to? Like I and
others haven't made references to Pressac's _Technique_ hundreds of time
before this?

Er, wait. Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to here.... See:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/asks-for-id
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq

> Give a little more info so I can see if it's available for dissecting.

Pressac, Jean-Claude.  Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas
Chambers.  New York: The Beate Klarsfield Foundation, 1989.

Be careful not to cut your nose off, Moran, when you start "dissecting." 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 17:53:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65202 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:06:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 79
Message-ID: 
References:   <32282586.73C@ix.netcom.com>  <50agrb$17s@sjx  <5163rt$1l1u@sol.caps.maine.edu> <32374259.5C2F@novia.net> 
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In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

[snip]

> I do not think that I can be called a racist. A racist is defined as 
> somebody who regards his own race as superior and thinks that one race
> has the right to rule other races. I certainly do not want to rule other
> races.  And I speak very little about racial superiority.

racism n. 1 a doctrine or teaching, without scientific support, that
claims to find racial differences in character, intelligence, etc., and
that seeks to maintain the supposed purity of a race or the races 2 any
program or practice of racial discrimination, segragation, etc, based on
such beliefs -racist n., adj. 

Taking into consideration some of your past comments (below), Mr.
Kreiberg, it is self-evident that you indeed are a racist as well as a
Nazi. No suprises there. 

=============================================================================

In article <8xKPnOev18sP065yn@login.dknet.dk>, olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:
 
The anti-racialist idea of a natural and inborn racial equality
is nothing but a political doctrin based on wishful thinking. 

It is often forgotten that to most people the truth about the racial 
differences is so compelling obvious that the burden of proof must lie 
with those who proclaim the racial equality - and not the other way round. 

It is not possible to display just one instance from history that  
some desirable can result from miscegenation, while there are 
plenty of instances of the contrary. 

The first law of nature is self-preservation. That also applies to ethnic
groups and nations.

  Let me qoute from Benjamin Disraeli who was a premier minister in England
>from  1874-80 and of Jewish descent:

 "No one must lightly dismiss the question of race. It is the key to  
  world history, and it is precisely for this reason that written history
  so often lacks clarity - it is written by people who do not understand
  the race question and what belongs to it. Language and religion do not
  make a race, only blood does that."  (Endymion) 

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article <4v4hqi$gte@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>>   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
>>  
>>  He, as a citizen of his country, has every right to propose and
>>  advocate anything he wishes within the laws of his country.  Other
>>  than that it is unclear what you are talking about.  There is no
>>  "basic human right" to live in another country.  
>
>Of course he can advocate any silly thing he wants.  But you are still 
>trying to change the subject.  nazi boy advocates removing the citizenship of 
>Danish citizens.  

But only from "Danish" citizens that are not ethnic Danes or are not 
ethnically a culturally a part of Europe (that is Non-Whites)

=============================================================================

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 18:19:39 PDT 1996
Article: 65213 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:54:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References:  <51cckt$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51cckt$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <51afsi$80q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  
> No comments from here until you cease and desist with your profanity and use
> of epithets.  Your statements are easily challenged.

Too bad then, Herr Schwarzesel, that you're too craven a scumbag Nazi
apologists to do so. Pity. I was so looking forward to handing you your
head. Again. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 18:19:40 PDT 1996
Article: 65218 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 15:48:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References:  <51cev2$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51cev2$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <5186nb$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  [snip]
> >  
> > 
> >  Given that Hilberg most certainly qualifies as a "serious historian" and
> >  that it is self-evident from his (above) anlysis regarding Go"ring's order
> >  of July 31 that "an extermination program was devised against the Jews at
> >  this date," your claim otherwise are shown to be worthless, Herr
> >  Schwarzesel.  
> >  
> >  [snip]
> >  
> >  Mark
> >  
> >
> 
> >>>>
> Hilberg didn't do so well when he testified at the Zundel trial.  That's why 
> he refused to reappear to testify at a later trial. Seems he was having a few
> problems supporting some of his interpretations.....

Herr Schwarzesel, care to support this claim by posting the relevent parts
of the transpscripts from the first Zundel trial? As we all know, Hilberg
was cross-examined by the neo-Nazi's legal attack-dog, Christie, who was
described by the _Ontario Lawyers Weekly_, as exibiting "sheer nastiness."
For instance, Christie treated Holocaust survivors "in a brutal fashion,
calling one a liar and insiosting that another give him the full names of
at least twenty family members who had been killed in the camps." (cf.
_Denying the Holocuast_, p.160.)

But in regards to Christies cross-examination of Dr. Hilberg, who is a
Professor Emeritus in the Department of History at the University of
Vermont: To get an idea of Christie's badgering tactics and empty
posturing, one need only consider that "he asked Dr. Hilberg if he
recognized a certain historical tract and then declared, 'I though you
might- you're a historian of sorts." (cf. Ibid.)

And, of course, at Zundel's second trial, who did Christie call to testify
on Zundel's behalf? Why none othr than the Hitlerphile and self-described
"moderate fascist" David Irving! An ersatz "historian of sorts" to say the
least! (cf. Ibid.) Such hypocrisy and dishonesty is to be expected, I
suppose, when defending scum like Zundel.... 

So, Herr Schwarzesel, pardon my skepticism at your claim that Dr. Hilberg
had a "a few problems supporting some of his interpretations." I suggest,
Herr Schwarzesel, that you put your money where your mouth is and provide
the trial transcripts. That is, of course, if it such is not too much to
ask of a craven scumabg Nazi apologist, such as yourself? 

MarK

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 18:37:44 PDT 1996
Article: 65222 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:23:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <51cf3p$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51cf3p$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) writes:
> >  Jeffrey  wrote:
> >  
> >  > And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven
> >  > that the lampshades were made out of goatskin. [1]
> >  > 
> >  > [1) Smith, Jean Edward, Lucius D.Clay An American Life, p301.
> >  
> >  Clay was quite simply wrong about this.  He was misinformed by his
> >  lawyer advisors at the time, as a Senate Investigatory Committee
> >  reported.  Yet deniers continue to quote him.  Typical revisionism.
> >  -- 
> >   Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> >   jamie@voyager.net        Co-Webmaster of http://www.nizkor.org/
> >   Hate mail will be posted.
> >  
> >>>>
> Why was he wrong about this?  Please read my recent post addressing this
> very issue.


"...Nevertheless these were not the offenses ["flaunting her sex"] for
which she [Koch] was being tried and so I reduced her sentence, expecting
the reaction which came. Perhaps I erred in judgement but no one can share
the responsibility of a reviewing officer. Later the Senate committee
which unanimously criticized this action heard witnesses who gave
testimony not contained in the record before me. I could take action only
on that record...." (Clay, _Decision in Germany_, p.254.)


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 18:37:45 PDT 1996
Article: 65223 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never believe Giwer
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:22:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 101
Message-ID: 
References:  <51ch3d$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51ch3d$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Read my source, then post this again if you dare.  

Oooh! I'm _sooo_ scared! Oh meee, Oh, myyyy....  The big baaaad scumbag
Nazi apologist _dares_ me to re-post the U.S. Army pathologist report
entitled: "Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides ." Oh dear, what will
_ever_ I do? 

(How about suggesting to Herr Schwarzesel that he just bit the Big Weenie? ) 

> Even General Clay admitted the human-skin accusation was fraudulent, 
> according  to another posting on this USENET. It looks like we wre
confronted > here with a genuine hoax fabrication.

Indeed. Shame on you, Herr Schwarzesel, for "confronting" us with this
"genuine hoax fabrication" of yours! 

In article ,
jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:

> Jeffrey  wrote:
> 
> > And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven
> > that the lampshades were made out of goatskin. [1]
> > 
> > [1) Smith, Jean Edward, Lucius D.Clay An American Life, p301.
> 
> Clay was quite simply wrong about this.  He was misinformed by his
> lawyer advisors at the time, as a Senate Investigatory Committee
> reported.  Yet deniers continue to quote him.  Typical revisionism.

"...Nevertheless these were not the offenses ["flaunting her sex"] for
which she [Koch] was being tried and so I reduced her sentence, expecting
the reaction which came. Perhaps I erred in judgement but no one can share
the responsibility of a reviewing officer. Later the Senate committee
which unanimously criticized this action heard witnesses who gave
testimony not contained in the record before me. I could take action only
on that record...." (Clay, _Decision in Germany_, p.254.)

Consider the following (re-post), a US Army pathologist's report:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Seventh Medical Laboratory
  APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
  Section of Pathology 

  25 May 1945


  SUBJECT:  Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides 

  TO     :  COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army 
            (ATTN:   JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 


  1.  There were submitted to this laboratory section for 
  examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN 
  from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of 
  Case 81 T.J.A. 

  2.  The description follows: 

  ......

  PIECE C:  Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The 
  upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm. 
  The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper 
  area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the 
  umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm.  ....

  MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen 
  showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. 
  Granular black pigment granules are seen between some 
  of the bundles. 

  3.  Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens 
  are tattooed human skin. 

  For the Commanding Officer, 
  
  (signature)
  REUBEN CARES 
  Major M.C. 
  Chief of Pathology 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 13 20:11:39 PDT 1996
Article: 150387 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:39:46 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 1
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:50 PDT 1996
Article: 65346 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.atlantic.net!news.utelfla.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:08:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 66
Message-ID: 
References: <51akd1$l33@news.enter.net> <51cc1h$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51cc1h$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >  Thre purpose of the original thread was to discuss wether Hoess was 
> >  >  tortured and beaten into signing a false confession which ends with the 
> >  >  words that he signs under no compulsion. 
> >  
> >       Then please present some evidence.
> >  
> >   After his beatings and torments at the hands of the
> >  >  British, he was then shipped on to the Poles and Soviets, where 
> >  >  undoubtedly he was treated with great tenderness and during which time 
> >  >  he wrote his "autobiography" again "without compulsion". 
> >  
> >       Do you have any evidence that he was beaten while in Polish hands?
> >  
> >  
> >       You have nothing except you suspicion.  That counts for nothing.
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >  
> >>>>

> I would like to refer you to the statements made by Bernhard Clark 
> concerning the treatment meted out to Hoess and his family, both before 
> and upon capture....

And? How does British mistreatment of Ho"ss on his capture equate to
Polish mistreatment at his trial? It doesn't, of course. Your insunuation
that it does, Herr Schwarzesel, is as bogus as you are. 

[snip]

> ...As to the  "suspicion" statement:  indeed you are correct. I have no 
> actual proof that he was tortured or mistreated by the Poles and the 
> Soviets....

Ah, so you were making specious and unfounded statements. How unsuprising.
Nazi apologia coming from a scumbag Nazi apologist, eh, Herr Schwarzesel? 

> What I DO have, however, is "reasonable suspicion" based upon the evidence 
> produced by other researchers concerning the treatment meted out to thousands 
> of Germans at the end of the war....

[snip]

Herr Schwarzesel, perhaps you'd care to list some convicted Nazi war
criminals who were tortured into giving confessions that were used against
them? Then perhaps you care to explain your twisted logic that equates
this to mean that Ho"ss was tortured into giving a confession that was
used in his trial to convict of crimes against the Polish people? 

Or is too much to ask a scumbag Nazi apologist to substantiate his
specious and unfounded Nazi apologia with facts? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:51 PDT 1996
Article: 65351 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:00:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References:   <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
> >
> >furnace-capacity.jpg
> >
> >Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
> >crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
> >in 24 working hours.
> 
> 
> >-Danny Keren.
> 
> Mr.Keren would prefer to direct people to some Nizkor URL instead
> of performing the service of presenting the stuff out here, directly.
> This is because he wants you to see the reference and say to yourself,
> 'Oh he has the proof' hoping you will just accept that on it's own. He
> knows the referred to evidence is absurd.

What is absurd, Moran, is that you are scraping the bottom of the denier
barrel here.  For the rigii unimpared, verification of Dr. Kerens's source
is but a few mouse clicks away. 

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65354 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:25:33 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 47
Message-ID: 
References: <51bv9n$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <51dafm$9gc@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51dafm$9gc@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

[snip]

>         How can I lie about something that is displayed in public.

Ah, Mr. Edeiken, you forget who you are talking to! (Or rather,
considering it likely that the Giwer-boob is probably face-down in a
gutter somewhere, who you are talking over.) The Giwer-boob often lies
about things that are displayed in public. Most especialy about things he
said in public. Obviously, the Giwer-boob erroneously assumes that since
_he_ lies about such things, that others must as well. 

The Giwer-boob is, as far as I can determine, a craven anti-Semitic and
racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing
fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has been said
in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims,
pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his
claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel,
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, crude sexism, and has
generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and
factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to
read and respond to him.  For detailed and documented evidence of this,
please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:52 PDT 1996
Article: 65355 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 02:02:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References:  <51dkbh$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51dkbh$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> No one was asking for your comments. Quatschmeister,  This post was addressed 
> to  someone else....

[snip]

Translated: I called Herr Schwarzesel's bluff and he folded. Then, as he
was exposed yet again for the scumbag Nazi apologist he is,  he stomped
his feet and ran off in a huff.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:53 PDT 1996
Article: 65362 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Never believe Giwer
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:58:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References:  <51dlfo$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51dlfo$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <51ch3d$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  > Read my source, then post this again if you dare.  
> >  
> >  Oooh! I'm _sooo_ scared! Oh meee, Oh, myyyy....  The big baaaad scumbag
> >  Nazi apologist _dares_ me to re-post the U.S. Army pathologist report
> >  entitled: "Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides ." Oh dear, what will
> >  _ever_ I do? 
> 
> You could begin by not acting like a flaming, silly, queen.....As to
your post, the usual non-responsive gibberish I would expect from you.


Translated: I called Herr Schwarzesel's bluff and he folded.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:54 PDT 1996
Article: 65366 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 02:07:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References:  <51djuk$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51djuk$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <51cev2$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
>    > >>>>
> >  > Hilberg didn't do so well when he testified at the Zundel trial.  
> >  > That's why he refused to reappear to testify at a later trial. Seems he
> >  >  was having a few problems supporting some of his interpretations.....
> >  
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, care to support this claim by posting the relevent parts
> >  of the transpscripts from the first Zundel trial?
> >  
> >  So, Herr Schwarzesel, pardon my skepticism at your claim that Dr. Hilberg
> >  had a "a few problems supporting some of his interpretations." I suggest,
> >  Herr Schwarzesel, that you put your money where your mouth is and provide
> >  the trial transcripts. That is, of course, if it such is not too much to
> >  ask of a craven scumabg Nazi apologist, such as yourself? 
> >  

[snip]

> I always advise people that I never bluff.  A reply will be forthcoming 
> soon at a theatre near you concerning Hilberg's testimony.

Translated: Don't hold your breath. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:55 PDT 1996
Article: 65368 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 02:04:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <51dkfr$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51dkfr$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  In article <51cidt$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  > We can resume debate at any time.  Simply desist with your
name-calling and
> >  > we will debate the issues.  It's your call-behave like a gentleman or
> >  else omit the debate.
> >  
> >
> 
> >  Now, Herr Schwarzesel, in regards to supporting your specious and
> >  unfounded Nazi apologia regarding Ho"ss with facts. Will you offer factual
> >  evidence that Ho"ss's conviction was based on testimony that was gained by
> >  his torture at the hands of his captors, or is that too much of a craven
> >  scumbag Nazi apologist such as yourself? 
> >  
> >  Mark
> >  
> > 
> 
> >>>>
> Oh well, I guess I will have to put up with your banal idiocy until
Nizkor has the good sense to get rid of you.

Translated: No, Herr Schwarzesel won't support his specious and unfounded
Nazi apologia regarding Ho"ss with facts. After all he's _is_ a scumbag
Nazi apologists....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:56 PDT 1996
Article: 65389 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth - No substance
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:32:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <842130150snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <50uqk0$mjb@news.enter.net> <511dhi$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <513oj8$bje@morgana.netcom.net.uk> <519q5p$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <3238B64D.313A@unb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3238B64D.313A@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

> Matt Giwer wrote:
> 
> >         The US does not spy on its allies.  
> 
> Yeah, right.
> 
> And they really *were* concerned with environmental issues
> when they fought against the idea of Canada getting nuclear
> powered subs.  Uh-huh.

Nah, that wasn't because we wanted to _spy_ on our lil' buddies up North.
(Deisel subs can be _real_ quite.) It was because we didn't want you guys
"tagging along" when _our_ subs played hide and seek under the artic ice
cap.... };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 08:50:56 PDT 1996
Article: 65394 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Take a step back and think about it..
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 23:51:27 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <51b6l1$f8f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51b6l1$f8f@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> Take a step back and think about it.
> 
> Look what we're doing.
> 
> We're arguing with people who claim that Germans exterminated Jews with
> insecticide ("poison gas" -- ooooooh) in shower rooms ("gas chambers" --
> ooooooh).  
> 
> Think about their claim.  How cheesy.  How utterly -stupid-.  
> 
> Let us never lose sight of the big picture.

Indeed, Herr Wankermeister, let us not lose sight of the fact that you
bring to bear no evidence that can withstand the briefest scrutiny. That
is, Herr Wankermeister, when you bring any at all, which is rarely. Case
in point is the above. You bring nothing but puerile ad hominems to attack
the Holocaust with. No evidence that refutes it. No rapier-like intellect
to tell us why the Holocuast is some gigantix Jewish Conspiracy. Nope,
what do you bring? Banal slurs like above. 

Wow, such an "impressive" Nazi you are, Herr Wankermeister. If you become
any  more "impressive" perhaps then I will be able to stop laughing at
your stupidy and catch my breath! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 10:04:55 PDT 1996
Article: 65430 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: All mouth - No substance
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:38:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
References: <842130150snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <50uqk0$mjb@news.enter.net> <511dhi$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <513oj8$bje@morgana.netcom.net.uk> <519q5p$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <3238B64D.313A@unb.ca>  <323A0602.727A@unb.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323A0602.727A@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> > > >         The US does not spy on its allies.
> > >
> > > Yeah, right.
> > >
> > > And they really *were* concerned with environmental issues
> > > when they fought against the idea of Canada getting nuclear
> > > powered subs.  Uh-huh.
> > 
> > Nah, that wasn't because we wanted to _spy_ on our lil' buddies up North.
> > (Deisel subs can be _real_ quite.) 
> 
> Quiet?  Not ours. 

Too bad. You shoulda bought German. The Germans make great diesel U-boats. 

Still.

...Well, there was that time we "sank" a CVN, but I'm sure that was just a
fluke.

Yeah, yeah. They was boostin' you guys' egos.... (Yeah, that's it!)  };-> 

> > It was because we didn't want you guys
> > "tagging along" when _our_ subs played hide and seek under the artic ice
> > cap.... };->
> 
> Yeah right.  Like we were going to announce to the Soviets where the
> US boomers were hiding.  

Like you _know_ where U.S. boomers are hiding? Yeah right. _We_ don't even
know where they are most of the time.... };-> 

> Of course the USN was probably worried that there might be a security
leak up here...

Yep. I bet the squids just _hate_ having their cavorting around on the
ice-pack show up on "Funniest home videos" or something....

>...not like they had their own or anything.

So _that's_ how you "sunk" the CVN! Tsk, tsk. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 14:15:06 PDT 1996
Article: 65475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.nevada.edu!news.tamu.edu!news.bihs.net!news.biddeford.com!news.fdt.net!fdtnet!newsfeed.telalink.net!telalink!news.thecia.net!imci5!imci4!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If Ole walks like a duck, and Ole talks like a....
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:46:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References: <517kr0$6re@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <51ar29$a57@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> In article <51ar29$a57@newsbf02.news.aol.com> kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) writes:
> 
> >Fine, McVay.  If the Germans are indeed a sovereign people with the right
> >to pass laws imprisoning Lauck for his thoughts, 
> 
> Beep.  Assuming facts not only not in evidence, but are demonstrably untrue.  
> Lauck was not imprisoned for his thoughts, but his behavior.  Beep.
> 
> Oh, and Kurt?  Your mother swims after troop ships.


ROTFLMAO!  Wow, isn't _that_ a trick?   };-> 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 14:15:07 PDT 1996
Article: 65483 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 13:31:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <519ghn$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>   <13SEP199623161663@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

[snip]

> That said, again:  I certainly don't think anybody should drive by or call to 
> harrass the aged Mr. Giwer, and in fact think nobody ever should harrass 
> anybody.  
> 
> I think his son, however, should walk south until his hat floats.  

Actually, I was hoping that the Giwer-boob would go on a camping trip, get
eaten by a bear, and shit off a cliff. It would be poetic justice and help
re-establish the karmic balance of the Universe that the Giwer-boob's
existance disturbs.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 15:00:16 PDT 1996
Article: 65506 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!iafrica.com!peacenjoy.mikom.csir.co.za!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Another nice stroll for the Giwer
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 01:49:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <519ghn$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>  <51c5te$rme@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> This one's easy, Matt.  
> 
> Head due south coming out of your apartment.  Cross over E 142nd Avenue (yes, 
> yes, I know it ends in a T there, 92 yards due south of where that funny
smell 
> is coming from), and keep going.  
> 
> Keep going, and going -- think of yourself like the Energizer Bunny -- 
> parallelling I-275, all the way down to Scott.  (It's just over 8 and a 
> quarter miles.)  Hang a right on Scott, and then a left on North Morgan.  
> Keep going south on North Morgan until it becomes South Morgan, and then keep 
> going until it ends.
> 
> Only 84 more yards to go:  keep walking south, until your hat floats.  
> 
> You'll be glad you did.

Well, at least everybody _else_ will be.... 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 16:27:47 PDT 1996
Article: 65524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!xara.net!emerald.xara.net!news.thenet.net!frankensun.altair.com!nntp.coast.net!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:05:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References:  <51f554$pll@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51f554$pll@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> Looking at Hillberg's work he appears more of a propagandist than anything
> else. Irving is a far better historian. 

And your evidence of this is, Herr Wankermeister? Are you _seriously_
suggesting that Dr. Hilberg, who is a Professor Emeritus in the Department
of History at the University of Vermont, is a "propagandist" because of
his seminal works on the Holocaust? Are you _seriously_ suggesting that
Irving, an uncredentialed ex-steelworker, is a better historian? 

And you wonder why you are considered to be a Nazi loon, Herr Wankermeister? 

[snip]

> Prove that David Irving described himself as a "moderate fascist."  Irving
> has denied this repeatedly, and so far noone has produced any evidence. 

"...In 1981 Irving, a self-described 'moderate fascist,' established his
own right-wing political party , founded on his belief that he was meant
to be a future leader of Britian..." (_Denying the Holocaust_, p.161.) 

The attribution for this was the _Canadian Jewish News_, Mar 16, 1989; and
the London Jewish Chronicle_, May 27, 1983. (Ibid. Notes 20 and 21,
p.260.) 

Check it out and report back to us, Herr Wankermeister. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 16:27:48 PDT 1996
Article: 65529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!in-news.erinet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Take a step back and think about it..
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 14:19:00 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References: <51dd3u$di7@orion.cybercom.net> <51f3cl$oud@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51f3cl$oud@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:

[snip]

> >> Let us never lose sight of the big picture.
> 
> >Indeed, Herr Wankermeister, let us not lose sight of the fact that you
> >bring to bear no evidence that can withstand the briefest scrutiny. That
> >is, Herr Wankermeister, when you bring any at all, which is rarely. Case
> >in point is the above. You bring nothing but puerile ad hominems to
> >attack the Holocaust with. No evidence that refutes it. No rapier-like 
> >intellect to tell us why the Holocuast is some gigantix Jewish Conspiracy. 
> >Nope, what do you bring? Banal slurs like above. 
> 
> >Wow, such an "impressive" Nazi you are, Herr Wankermeister. If you become
> >any  more "impressive" perhaps then I will be able to stop laughing at
> >your stupidy and catch my breath! 
> 
> >Mark
> 
> yeah, the Holocaust is so airtight that they have to imprison people who
> want to question it and censor them from the airwaves.

Tell me, Herr Wankermeister, how many people have been imprisoned in the
United States for denying the Holocuast? How many people in the United
States have been "censored from the airwaves" for denying the Holocaust?
(Keep in mind, Herr Wankermeister, censorship can be done only by the
Government.) 

> Tell me another one. 

How about, Herr Wankermeister, that you are an ignorant Nazi trollop? 

[snip]

> Is Solzehitsyn trying to tell us something?

Yes, Herr Wankermeister. But you are, it seems, much too stupid and
hateful to understand it. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 16:27:49 PDT 1996
Article: 65533 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Human skin LAMPSHADE STORY A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:47:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <323adfe9.11206567@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article , Jeffrey
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Some reporter had called her [Ilse Koch] the "Bitch of Buchenwald" had
> >> [also] written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her
> >> house. And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven
> >> that the lampshades were made out of goatskin....
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >In light of Jeffrey's claims one might wish to consider the following, a
> >US Army pathologist's report:
> >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >  Seventh Medical Laboratory
> >  APO 403, c/o PK, New York, N.Y.
> >  Section of Pathology 
> >
> >  25 May 1945
> >
> >
> >  SUBJECT:  Identification of Tattoed Skin Hides 
> >
> >  TO     :  COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U. S. Army 
> >            (ATTN:   JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL) 
> >
> >
> >  1.  There were submitted to this laboratory section for 
> >  examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. GIVIN 
> >  from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of 
> >  Case 81 T.J.A. 
> >
> >  2.  The description follows: 
> >
> >  ......
> >
> >  PIECE C:  Is truncated, measures 44 cm. at the base. The 
> >  upper portion is 30 cm. long and the sides measure 46 cm. 
> >  The skin is transparent, and shows two nipples in the upper 
> >  area. These are 16 cm. apart. From the nipple level to the 
> >  umbilicus is 23 1/2 cm.  ....
> >
> >  MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen 
> >  showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. 
> >  Granular black pigment granules are seen between some 
> >  of the bundles. 
> >
> >  3.  Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens 
> >  are tattooed human skin. 
> >
> >  For the Commanding Officer, 
> >  
> >  (signature)
> >  REUBEN CARES 
> >  Major M.C. 
> >  Chief of Pathology 
> >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >(Note: the document quoted above was supplied by Stephan Bruchfeld who
> >deserves the credit for a fine bit of research)
> 
> But I thought the likes of Debra Lipstadt recognize the tatoo
> story was and is a lie.

Refresh our memories here, Moran. Give the readers a cite to where Dr.
Lipstadt claims this. 

> There seems to be an aweful lot more that denies the story. 

Such as? Give the readers cites to where there is incontrovertible
evidence this refutes the (above) pathological report. 

> "Rueben" most often is a Jewish name, and Bruchfeld, well ..."

And Moran, fittingly, sounds like moron.... 

> Anyway, it would be interesting to see the full particulars or
> the "research" and the docuement.

Then why don't _you_ go research the "full particulars" of the
pathological report, Moran? Hmmm? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 16:27:50 PDT 1996
Article: 65539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!neptune.gan.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the usual suspects
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 14:37:25 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
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References: <519mc2$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> 
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In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> In article <519mc2$785@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com
(Matt  Giwer) writes:
> >From: mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer)
> >Subject: the usual suspects
> >Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:54:58 GMT
> 
> >        Security@netcom.com tells me that he spoke with only two outside
> >people about the recent problem.  One of the them is the webmaster at
> >Nizkor and the other is YFE.  That means that the list of suspects
> >regarding the harrassing phonecalls this morning are narrowed down to
> >those two people.  
> 
> Is it possible that you could be a little less incoherent?  
> 
> What, if any, problem are you actually alleging happened?  If you're really 
> being hassled by somebody, I'd at least like to know what it is that I'm 
> laughing about. 

I think the Giwer-boob is trying to blame Mr. McVay and/ or Mr. Edeiken
for the fact that he was taken to task by his ISP for net abuse. The
Giwer-boob evidently tried to mailbomb Nizkor and now that he is hoist by
his own petard, now attempts blames others for his craven acts. 

No suprises here. That is the Giwer-boob's modus operandi when exposed for
the malicious coward he is:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/net-abuse


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 17:44:28 PDT 1996
Article: 65555 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:24:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> >Taking into consideration some of your past comments (below), Mr.
> >Kreiberg, it is self-evident that you indeed are a racist as well as a
> >Nazi. No suprises there. 
>  ^^^^
> How do you dare call me a Nazi. 

Mr. Kreiberg, I do indeed call you a Nazi.  

> You do not seem to understand what nazism was. 

On the contray, Mr. Kreiberg, I understand perfectly well what National
Socialism was. I also understnd perfectly well that you parrot many of the
ideals of National Socialism. 

> This article is crossposted to soc.culture.german, and I think that
> there will be Germans there that may be able to confirm the following: 
> 
> 1. Hitler said several times that national socialism knows only Germany
> and is not meant for export. 

Then please explain, Mr. Kreiberg, the existance of the Austrian Nazi
Party? And most especially, the support it received from the Nazi Party in
Germany?

> 2. Nazism was harsh dictatorship and social darwinism. I have never 
> advocated things like that.

Mr. Kreiberg, you have claimed you are "looking for" a "humane and
unfanatic racialism." [1] Yet you also say that to "stop and reverse the
immigration" one "must be willing to pay some human costs." [2] The
dichotomy here is self-evident, yes? Obviously, one might think your
professing to look for "humane and unfanatic racialism" is nothing but
vapid and placatory disinformation as to your real intent: the ethnic
cleansing of Denmark by whatever means are necessary. 

Additionally, evidence of your sinister intent is only reinforced by your
comment regarding those who refuse to placidly be stripped of rightful
Danish citizenship and be deported to the third-world: "You just pick
somebody out here and there and thereby put pressure on the rest in order
to make them cooperate." [3]

Such blatant acts of intimidation and terrorism are a hallmark of "harsh
dictatorships." And you advocate such acts, Mr. Kreiberg.  

Furthermore, Mr. Kreiberg, evidence of the "social darwinism" in your
views and writings can be found by such statement as: "Ayrans stand at the
pinnacle of human evolution" [4] and the "first law of nature is
self-preservation. That also applies to ethnic groups and nations." [5]

> Without the leadership principle (Fuehrerprinzip) you cannot have nazism or 
> fascism, and I have never advocated such things. So simple is that. 

Yet, Mr. Kreiberg, you have stated that your "political goal is to create
a ethnic homogenous society." [6] You, by your own admission, Mr.
Kreiberg, have political goals you are trying to further. You have had a
letter published in a Danish newspaper advocating your political goal,
yes? Mr. Kreiberg, given all this, one might think your professing a lack
of "Fuehrerprinzip" is nothing but vapid and placatory disinformation.
This becomes more evident when considering that you have taken it upon
yourself to convince others to support your racist and discriminatory
ideals.

[snip]

> You can now understand that even if I wanted I would not be able to 
> identify myself with nazism. My problem is the present day with the 
> immigration from the third world and the multiethnic society. I leave the 
> problem of nazism to the Germans.

Mr. Kreiberg, you have written that you "symphatize with other White
patriots in other countries. In a new racial world order it will be
necessary that all White nations are allied." [3] Given that, for
instance, many of these "White patriots" espouse Nazism, especially groups
such as the National Alliance, which I believe, you said of: "To me they
are simply  Americans who love their country and race" [7] and whom you
dishonestly tried to downplay their embracement of Nazism by claiming that
they are "somewhat inspired by national socialism" [8]; I find it hard to
see how you have not identified yourself with Nazism. In fact, Mr.
Kreiberg, based on what you have espoused, I have come to a very different
conclusion than you. You have been clearly influenced by Nasizm. In fact,
it is obvious, despite your futile denials, that you have _embraced_ much
of the ideology of National Socialism. You, sir, are a Nazi. 

> My views on the meaning of the ethnic differences are thus not based 
> on German chauvinism but on the experience of history, common sense, logic
> and the eternal laws of nature.

Again, Mr. Kreiberg, given the above, I find it far more plausible that
your racism has been colored by Nazism, which, after all, was primarily
racial fascism. You, sir, are also a racist.

And finally, Mr. Kreiberg, given the above, and your disingenous behavior
in not acknowledging what you have written, and the implications your
writings clearly espouse, I can only conclude that you are also a liar. 


Mark


1.


2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 17:44:29 PDT 1996
Article: 65556 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:25:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References:    
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In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> In article  olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) writes:
> >From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
> >Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
> >Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:42:59 +0100
> 
> >In article , Mark Van Alstine
wrote:
> 
> >>Taking into consideration some of your past comments (below), Mr.
> >>Kreiberg, it is self-evident that you indeed are a racist as well as a
> >>Nazi. No suprises there. 
> > ^^^^
> >How do you dare call me a Nazi. 
> 
> Definition of character.   

Or lack thereof....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 20:26:40 PDT 1996
Article: 65634 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 00:55:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 100
Message-ID: 
References:   <323a1532.5005095@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323a1532.5005095@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> 
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
> >
> >furnace-capacity.jpg
> >
> >Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
> >crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
> >in 24 working hours.
> 
> >-Danny Keren.
> 
>         Fifty two (52) cremas said to have been at Auschwitz. 52 into
> 4756 = 91 a day each oven. 91 into 24 hours = almost 4 an hour. About
> one every 15 minutes. 

Actually, no. As usual, Moran, you can't quite seem to get things
straight. The muffles were charged with two bodies at a time. That would
give a charging cycle-time of 30 minutes. In addition to this is the fact
that multiple charges were being cremated per muffle. As one charge was
partially consumed and fell through the chamotte grid into the ash channel
where it was completely consumed, another charge was added. What this did
was to shorten the time between charging the muffles by about 20 minutes.
So, if it took 50 minutes to completely incinerate a corspe, the charging
cycle-time was reduced to 30 minutes. 

> Figuring unload time and reload time we might
> say one every 10 minutes. Present day cremations take an average of 1
> 1/2 to 2 hours to reduce just one body to ashes.

Moran, according to the "Internet Cremation Society FAQ:"

"...The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of
machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a
cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. 

Source: http://www.cremation.org:80/faq.shtml#At what temperature

Now, considering that the Topf furnaces used in the Krematorien at
Auschwitz  were "high capacity" furnaces, and that today's "high capacity"
furnaces "take less than one hour" to cremate a corpse, you are commiting
the fallacy of observational selection. You are erroneously comparing low
capacity furnaces against high capacity furnaces without taking into
consideration their differences. You are, in essence, comparing apples and
oranges -and coming up bannanas. 

When comapring the incineration time of the Topf furnace (~50 min) with
that of modern high capacity furnaces ("less than one hour"), it becomes
self-evident that the _incineration_ times are roughly the same. Certainly
in the same ballpark. The _cylcle-times_ are, however, quite different.
For civilain crematorien  the mixing of remains in the muffle is
prohibited. This in essence limits the cycle-time of a crematory furnace
to its incineration time, as only _one_ corpse can be in the muffle at a
time. Of course, the Topf furnaces used in the concentration camp system
were not under such restrictions. Because the SS had no reservations about
mixing the remains of their prisoners, the furnaces could achieve more
rapid charging cycle-times than civilain furnaces can. The bottom line is,
of course, that the Topf furnaces used at Auschwitz had higher throughputs
than civilain  crematory furnaces do.   

> You might see a reply here that the Germans only burnt the bodies
> to charred bones. Even this would not be accomplished. If it was only
> ten minutes we would still probably have 80 to 90 percent of the body
> mass still in existence after the period.

Really? And your calculations that predict this are? Your emperical
evidence showing this is? Not to mention, of course, that given the above,
the time to completely incinerate the corpses in the Topf furnaces was
around 50 minutes, with a charging cycle-time of about 30 minutes. 

> Cremation rates are the most ridiculous aspects of the Holocaust
> farce.

More accurately, Moran, it is _your_ farsical "expertise" on cremation
rates that is a most ridiculous aspect of your ignorance about the
Holocaust. 

But what should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 14 20:26:42 PDT 1996
Article: 65635 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Unitied States sailors got what they deserved.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:42:28 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <32357e8a.4690704@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac4d0.4268935@news.pacificnet.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ac4d0.4268935@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >
> >       Poor Annie Alpert.      
> 
> >       Annie has posted she is not Jewish, that she has blonde hair and
> >blue eyes. Maybe she's one of those who fancies a job in Hollywood.
> 
>         I wonder if Annie realizes she has inadvertantly announced that
> the Jews are a racist movement?      

I wonder if Moran realizes he's inadvertently announced that he's an
anti-Semite and an idiot?

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:26 PDT 1996
Article: 65670 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Unitied States sailors got what they deserved.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:07:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <32357e8a.4690704@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac4d0.4268935@news.pacificnet.net>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ac4d0.4268935@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >
> >       Poor Annie Alpert.      
> 
> >       Annie has posted she is not Jewish, that she has blonde hair and
> >blue eyes. Maybe she's one of those who fancies a job in Hollywood.
> 
>         I wonder if Annie realizes she has inadvertantly announced that
> the Jews are a racist movement?      

I wonder if Moran realizes he's inadvertently announced that he's an
anti-Semite and an idiot?

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:27 PDT 1996
Article: 65682 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.aros.net!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Goring's Commission to Heydrich
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:03:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 84
Message-ID: 
References: <3236d933.632225@news.zilker.net><3236d933.632225@news.zilker.net> <5186nb$n3i@juliana.sprynet.com> <51fosf$3r0s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51fosf$3r0s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

> If Goering's order to Heydrich does not support the contention that Goering
> knew the Jews were to be exterminated, how does that square with the fact that
> Goering himself refers to his previous order of 1939?  And how does it square
> with the fact that Adolf Eichmann suggests that it _did_ mean that Goering
> knew of the Final Solution?

>From  _Eichmann Interrogated_, pp.74-75:



[...] 

LESS: Very well. We'll come back to that. You have touched on the final
solution of the Jewish question. Would you like to speak about that now,
or about the war with Russia first.

EICHMANN: The final solution mdepends...it's mixed up with...something
that happened after the start of the German-Russian war.

At the time Reich Marshal Go"ring issued a document conferring a special
title on the head of the Security Police and the SD. I'm trying to
remember the wording. Was it "Deputy Charged with the Final Solution," or
was it "with the Solution of the Jewish Question"?

LESS: Wouldn't this document relate to the period prior to the outbreak of
the Second World War?

EICHMANN: We can only be sure that it relates to the period when
emigration had ceased to be possible and the more radical solution was
resorted to. The war with the Soviet Union began in June 1941, I think.
And I believe it was two months later, or maybe three, that Heydrich sent
for me. I reported. He said to me: "The Fu"hrer, well, emigration is..."
He began with a little speech. And then: "The Fu"hrer has ordered physical
extermination." These were his words.[...]



Yes indeed. And who did Hitler put in charge by of the "Jewish question?"
Why none other than Reichsmarschall Go"ring. (_Encyclopedia of the
Holocaust_, p.597.) And who did Go"ring give orders to innaugrate the
Fu'hrer's orders for the phsyical extermination of the Jews? Why none
other than Heydrich. The chain of command ran from Hitler, through
Go"ring, to Heydrich. And Heydrich told Eichmann that "the Fu"hrer has
ordered [the] physical extermination" of the Jews. That Herr Schwarzesel
claims that Go"ring, when he issued his orders, was not aware that "the
Fu"hrer has ordered [the] physical extermination" of the Jews simply
beggars the imagination. That Go"ring, and others, knew about the
extermination of the Jews is confirmed by their own selves:

"On the very highest level the full burden of knowledge revealed itself in
the written word. Hitler, Go"ring, Himmler, and Goebbels had a complete
view of the destruction process; they knew the details of the mobile
killing operations in Russia, and they saw the whole scheme of
deportations in the rest of Europe. For these men it was difficult to
resort to pretense. When Goebbels found out that the SS and Police Leader
in Lublin, Globocnik, was constructing killing centers, he wrote: "Not
much will remain of the Jews.... A judgement is being visited upon the
Jews [which is] barbaric.... The prophecy which the Fu"hrer made about
them for having broiught on a new world war is begining to come true ina
most terrible manner.

"Go"ring spoke of burned bridges and a position 'from which there is no
escape.' Himmler and also Goebbels explained that the 'final solution' was
a task that could not have been postponed because in world history there
was only one Adolf Hitler.... (Hilberg, _Destruction_, p.266.) 


Mark


posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:27 PDT 1996
Article: 65684 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.aros.net!xmission!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Racists Blame their troubles on Everthing
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:19:41 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <323648F9.7D86@nwark.com> <51b61h$f60@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <323b5d77.25741534@news.awinc.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323b5d77.25741534@news.awinc.com>, klewis@awinc.com (Ken
Lewis) wrote:

> On 13 Sep 1996 20:09:54 -0400, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) wrote:
> 
> 
> #Once Whites are genetically amalgamated with non-Whites, the White gene
> #pool will be destroyed and Whites will cease to exist as a people. 
> 
> Kurt, if I thought _you_ were truely representitive of the white race I'd
> abstain from sex and hope for it's quick end.

ROTFL! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:28 PDT 1996
Article: 65691 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:58:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 90
Message-ID: 
References:   <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>  <323acb05.5858080@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323acb05.5858080@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:
> >
> >> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> >> 
> >> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
> >> >
> >> >furnace-capacity.jpg
> >> >
> >> >Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
> >> >crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
> >> >in 24 working hours.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> >-Danny Keren.
> >> 
> >> Mr.Keren would prefer to direct people to some Nizkor URL instead
> >> of performing the service of presenting the stuff out here, directly.
> >> This is because he wants you to see the reference and say to yourself,
> >> 'Oh he has the proof' hoping you will just accept that on it's own. He
> >> knows the referred to evidence is absurd.
> >
> >What is absurd, Moran, is that you are scraping the bottom of the denier
> >barrel here.  For the rigii unimpared, verification of Dr. Kerens's source
> >is but a few mouse clicks away. 
> >
> >But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
> >beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
> >Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
> >evidence of this please see:
> >
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
> >http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq
> 
> Here we have the same finale that Mr.VanAlstine gave above in the
> thread to his usual lengthy drone on responses. 

Really gets your goat too, Moran.

> 
> Evidently Mr.VanAlstine finds in his own subliminal that whatever
> he put forth as to that was insufficient and he found that he better
> add these irrelevant URLs to discredit Moran.

Actually, no. Your incoherent babbling aside, Moran, I added the URLs to
show the reader that you are indeed a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office. 

> Moran has written over 220 articles to alt.revisionism, thus we
> can see that Mr.VanAlstine can only point to a few in attempts at
> undoing Moran.

Glad you acknowledge your undoing, Moran. It's the first step towards
recovery. However, you where undone quite some time ago. Right about the
time you started babbling about trees in Israel, amphiboles, menorahs,
_Shindler's List_, etc. etc. Not to mention, of course, that you
constantly stepped on your crank with your blatant anti-Semitism. 

>         Mr.Van Alstine is a funny individual.

Indeed. Haviong a sense of humor when dealing with fruitcakes like you is
quite helpful. 

> Keep an eye on Mr.VanAlstine's responses and take note of how he
> drags them on, over expanding to the point where it becomes
> incoherent.

Translated: Waaah! I keep getting my butt whipped when I post my
anti-Semitic Holocaust denial drivel! Waaaah!

Such a baby. Tsk tsk. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:29 PDT 1996
Article: 65711 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What do they do with the $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 18:39:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <323ac4ef.4300682@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ac4ef.4300682@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

>                 
>         The Jews have collected billions of $$$$$, hundreds of billions
> $$$$$, from exploiting the Holocaust story.
> 
>         What do they do with this $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$?
> 
>         Well we could suppose much of it has gone to the Jewish state.
> 
>         And, we might suppose much of it has been pooled to acquire U.S.
> holdings, from apartment houses to major buildings to U.S.
> corporations and major medias.

Gee, and here I thought the Japanese were the ones that had "acquire[ed] U.S.
holdings, from apartment houses to major buildings to U.S. corporations
and major medias." 

Are you really saying, Moran, that the Japanese are really "the Jews?"

You're bizarre, Moran. Seek help.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:30 PDT 1996
Article: 65733 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.mem.bellsouth.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:59:46 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 27
Message-ID: 
References:  <51cidt$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51cidt$mdq@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> We can resume debate at any time.  Simply desist with your name-calling and
> we will debate the issues.  It's your call-behave like a gentleman or
else omit the debate.

Herr Schwarzesel, you have amply demonstrated that you are anything _but_
a gentleman. You are a scumbag Nazi apologist, and I will continue to call
you such and ridicule you with the moniker of "Herr Schwarzesel" becuase
you are deserving of it from your past craven and insulting behavior.
Learn to live with it, Herr Schwarzesel. You earned it. 

Now, Herr Schwarzesel, in regards to supporting your specious and
unfounded Nazi apologia regarding Ho"ss with facts. Will you offer factual
evidence that Ho"ss's conviction was based on testimony that was gained by
his torture at the hands of his captors, or is that too much of a craven
scumbag Nazi apologist such as yourself? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 09:27:30 PDT 1996
Article: 65742 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the - real ashes?
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:07:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <323ac4c2.4255094@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ac4c2.4255094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[Moran's drivel snipped]

> The only evidence I recall is a room mentioned that held urns. 

Then you don't "recall" much do you, Moran? 

Why don't you refresh your memory by pointing your riggii at:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/burning-pits



Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 10:52:53 PDT 1996
Article: 150679 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 21:07:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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Message-ID: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 10:52:54 PDT 1996
Article: 150777 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:40:46 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 15 17:47:26 PDT 1996
Article: 65905 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 1996 19:32:54 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <51afsi$80q@juliana.sprynet.com> <323ADDAB.5564@rio.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ADDAB.5564@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

[snip]

> Oh but he did understand English. How else could he have written his 
> story in his own hand in the English language.
> People can argue about the validity of commandant Hoess's writings all 
> they want. He did write the truth, he was treated very well by the 
> Polish and he says so. He knew he was doomed and wanted to die with a 
> clean soul.

The problem here, Chuck, is accepting _anything_ Herr Schwarzesel says at
face value. Case in point is Ho"ss's memoirs. Andrew Pollinger, the
translator of Ho"ss memoirs for _Death Dealer_, writes:

"...In translating the handwritten notes of Rudolf Ho"ss, another problem
arose, since he wrote in a mixture of old German script and the so-called
new Latin script adopted in the late nineteen-thirties in Nazi
Germany...." (_Death Dealer_, "Translator's Note" [p.17].) 

Obviously, Ho"ss's handwritten memoirs _weren't_ written in English, but
in German. Herr Schwarzesel lied when he claimed that Ho"ss wrote his
memoirs in English. 

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66421 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:29:33 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References:     
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:101389 alt.revisionism:66421 soc.culture.europe:47959 soc.culture.german:86289

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >
> >Then please explain, Mr. Kreiberg, the existance of the Austrian Nazi
> >Party? And most especially, the support it received from the Nazi Party in
> >Germany?
> 
> Now you expose your ignorance....

Mr. Kreiberg, Austria and Germany were seperate internationally
recognoized contries _before_ the _Anschluss_. 

>...The Austrians are Germans...

And, Mr. Kreiberg, many Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc. are
Anglos. Does this mean we are British? 

Do you see the irrelevency of your specious arguments yet, Mr. Kreiberg? 

Now, again, Mr. Kreiberg, please explain the existance of the Austrian
Nazi Party? And most especially, the support it received from the Nazi
Party in Germany?

[snip]

> >> 2. Nazism was harsh dictatorship and social darwinism. I have never 
> >> advocated things like that.
> >
> >Mr. Kreiberg, you have claimed you are "looking for" a "humane and
> >unfanatic racialism." [1] Yet you also say that to "stop and reverse the
> >immigration" one "must be willing to pay some human costs." [2] The
> >dichotomy here is self-evident, yes? Obviously, one might think your
> >professing to look for "humane and unfanatic racialism" is nothing but
> >vapid and placatory disinformation as to your real intent: the ethnic
> >cleansing of Denmark by whatever means are necessary. 
> 
>  I strongly believe that this goal can be attained in a humane manner 
> without bloodshed.

Mr. Kreiberg, given your comment regarding those who refuse to placidly be
stripped of rightful Danish citizenship and be deported to the
third-world, I see no reason to believe you. 

> >Additionally, evidence of your sinister intent is only reinforced by your
> >comment regarding those who refuse to placidly be stripped of rightful
> >Danish citizenship and be deported to the third-world: "You just pick
> >somebody out here and there and thereby put pressure on the rest in order
> >to make them cooperate." [3]
> >
> >Such blatant acts of intimidation and terrorism are a hallmark of "harsh
> >dictatorships." 
> 
>  Who says so? 

History, Mr. Kreiberg. You should try reading some. 

[snip]

> >Furthermore, Mr. Kreiberg, evidence of the "social darwinism" in your
> >views and writings can be found by such statement as: "Ayrans stand at the
> >pinnacle of human evolution" [4] and the "first law of nature is
> >self-preservation. That also applies to ethnic groups and nations." [5]
> >
> >> Without the leadership principle (Fuehrerprinzip) you cannot have
nazism or 
> >> fascism, and I have never advocated such things. So simple is that. 
> >
> >Yet, Mr. Kreiberg, you have stated that your "political goal is to create
> >a ethnic homogenous society." 
> 
> Exactly. However, because I want ethnic homogeneity, why would I want 
> dictatorship?

"Fuehrerprinzip," Mr.Kreiberg.  You have claimed you cannot have Nazism
without "Fuehrerprinzip," and that since you have evidenced no
"Fuehrerprinzip" you cannot be accused of promulgating Nasism. 

The logical fallacy of your assertion aside, Mr. Kreiberg, I merely have
pointed out that you _have_ "taken the bull by the horns" in promulgating
your Nazi ideals. You have _proactively_ promulgated your ideas
publically. You have tried to rally people around your Nazi ideals. 

>> [6] You, by your own admission, Mr.
> >Kreiberg, have political goals you are trying to further. You have had a
> >letter published in a Danish newspaper advocating your political goal,
> >yes? 
> 
> It was in the Danish newsgroup dk.politik, but I have had several letters
> published in Danish newspaper about the many aspects of the immigration- and 
> refugee problem.

Indeed. "Fuehrerprinzip."

> >Mr. Kreiberg, given all this, one might think your professing a lack
> >of "Fuehrerprinzip" is nothing but vapid and placatory disinformation.
> >This becomes more evident when considering that you have taken it upon
> >yourself to convince others to support your racist and discriminatory
> >ideals.
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> You can now understand that even if I wanted I would not be able to 
> >> identify myself with nazism. My problem is the present day with the 
> >> immigration from the third world and the multiethnic society. I leave the 
> >> problem of nazism to the Germans.
> >
> >Mr. Kreiberg, you have written that you "symphatize with other White
> >patriots in other countries. 
> 
>  Because I symphatize with them, it does not mean that I want to adopt their
> ideology. During WW2, England and the USA symphatized with the Soviet Union 
> without having much symphaty with it's ideology.

You are not England, the United States, or the Soviet Union in WWII, Mr.
Kreiberg. You are a neo-Nazi "sympathizing" with other neo-Nazis and
calling for a alliance of "White" (i.e. Nazi-like) nations. 

> >In a new racial world order it will be
> >necessary that all White nations are allied." [3] Given that, for
> >instance, many of these "White patriots" espouse Nazism, especially groups
> >such as the National Alliance, which I believe, you said of: "To me they
> >are simply  Americans who love their country and race" [7] and whom you
> >dishonestly tried to downplay their embracement of Nazism by claiming that
> >they are "somewhat inspired by national socialism" 
> 
> Being Americans they can only be inspired by nazism. 

No, Mr. Kreiberg, being bigoted racists and anti-Semites, they find solace
on the evil doctrines of Natiol Socialism. That and they're into
swastikas, leather, and hob-nailed boots.... Oh yeah, and repressed
sexuality. 

> If they really want to get into the American mainstream they will have to 
> create an ideology based on American culture and heritage. 

That _wouldn't_ be Nazism then, Mr. Kreiberg.

> >[8]; I find it hard to
> >see how you have not identified yourself with Nazism. In fact, Mr.
> >Kreiberg, based on what you have espoused, I have come to a very different
> >conclusion than you. You have been clearly influenced by Nasizm. In fact,
> >it is obvious, despite your futile denials, that you have _embraced_ much
> >of the ideology of National Socialism. You, sir, are a Nazi. 
> 
>  The nazis did not invent racialism. 

Did I claim otherwise, Mr. Kreiberg? No. Nazism, however, _was_ steeped in
racist doctrine and virulent anti-Semitism. That is undeniable. 

> It was already there. They just distorted it in order to make it fit into 
> their *German* chauvinism. 

Mr. Kreiberg, German anti-Semitism evolved around 1870 from a non-racist
to the racist doctrine that was eventually adopted by Hitler and Nazism. 

[snip]

> >> My views on the meaning of the ethnic differences are thus not based 
> >> on German chauvinism but on the experience of history, common sense, logic
> >> and the eternal laws of nature.
> >
> >Again, Mr. Kreiberg, given the above, I find it far more plausible that
> >your racism has been colored by Nazism, which, after all, was primarily
> >racial fascism. You, sir, are also a racist.
> >
> >And finally, Mr. Kreiberg, given the above, and your disingenous behavior
> >in not acknowledging what you have written, and the implications your
> >writings clearly espouse, I can only conclude that you are also a liar. 
> >
> To me nazism was still a product of the German authoritarian character, like 
> the present day acceptance of political prisoners in Germany is a product of
> the same German character. The Germans will remain Germans, and they will
> continue to persecute and imprison each other. That is the way they are.

And to me, Mr. Kreiberg, you remain a racist Nazi liar. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:17 PDT 1996
Article: 66437 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!voskovec.radio.cz!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBelling stil avoiding the issues (and he's lying too)... Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:42:47 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <51lt82$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51lt82$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
> >  In article <51dl83$n9q@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >  
> >  
> SNIP GANDHI'S DRIVEL
> 
> 
> Concerning Clark, for the 10th time--HIS COMMENTS ARE A DIRECT QUOTE.
> Comprende?  Capisce?  They BEGIN and END with """...QUOTATION MARKS.
> Are you still with me, Brother Juniper????  

Herr Schwarzesel, and was not Ho"ss's comments written by Ho"ss himself?
As you insist on claiming that Ho"ss's memoirs are false, why not also
Clark's account? After all, Ho"ss _agrees_ with Clark that he was abused
by the British on his capture. Obviously, as you claim that Ho"ss's
memoirs were a product of the Soviet Union, and as Clark's account fits
well with Ho"ss's, Clark's must have been coerced to give false testimony
by the Soviets as well, yes? 

But of course, Herr Schwarzesel, you will object and raise the denier
double standard that claims, in essense, that testimony is only valid if
it supports anti-Semitism and/or Nazi apologia.

Such is denier "logic." Is there any wonder at why, Herr Schwarzesel, you
have been so easily pegged as a mindless Nazi lackey? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66442 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:09:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 69
Message-ID: 
References: <51i2p7$26ku@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <51lre4$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <51lre4$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord McFee) writes:
> >  In message <51cfj5$igi@juliana.sprynet.com> - rblackmore@juno.com13
Sep 1996
> >  20:18:45 GMT writes:
> >  :>
> >  :>>   libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
> >  
> >  :>>  There's nothing to settle, really.  Streicher was widely considered
> >  :>>  a pornographer, both by his enemies and by his ostensible allies 
> >  :>>  (most of whom despised him).  He was never tried or convicted for
> >  :>>  being a pornographer, and nobody I know has ever suggested he was.
> >   
> >  :>Agreed.  Consequently it follows that those who refer to him as a 
> >  :>pornographer are simply stating their own opinions.  However, in the 
> >  :>books I read he is referred to as an actual purveyor of pornography.
> >  :>This is false.
> >  
> >  Please name _one_ book in which Streicher is referred to as a _purveyor_ of
> >  pornography.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >  --
> >  Gord McFee
> >  I'll write no line before its time
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Try Synder's "Encyclopedia of the Third Reich".  See under Streicher.  Though
> he doesn't use the exact word "purveyor", the meaning is quite clear.

"...There is a great deal of morbid sexuality in Hitler's ravings about
the Jews. This was characteristic of Vienna's anti-Semitic press of the
time, as it was later to be of the obscene Nuremberg weekly _Der
Stu"rmer_, published by one of Hitler's favorite cronies, Julias
Striecher, Nazi boss of Franconia, a noted pervert and one of the most
unsavory characters of the Third Reich...." (Shirer, _Rise and Fall_,
p.48.)

"He [Hitler] stood Julias Streicher, for example, almost to the end. This
depraved sadist, who started life as an elementary school teacher, was one
of the most disreputable men around Hitler from 1922 until 1939, when his
star finally faded. A famous fornicator, as he boasted, who blackmailed
even the husbands of women who were his mistresses, he made his fame and
fortune as a blindly fanatical anti-Semite. His notorius weekly, _Der
Stu"rmer_, thrived on lurid tales of Jewish sexual crimes and Jewish
'ritual murders'; its obscenity was nauseating, even to many Nazis.
Streicher was also a noted pornographist...." (Ibid. p.80.) 

"Streicher was one of the most rabid antisemites in the Nazi party. He
founded the newspaper _Der Stu"rmer_ (The Attacker) in Nuremberg in 1923,
becoming its editor and, as of 1935, its owner as well. It was he who gave
the newspaper its special antisemitic-pornographic character....
(_Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.1415.) 

Indeed, Herr Schwarzesel, the meaning is _quite_ clear. As is your
pathetic rationalization to support your Nazi apologia. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 17:40:18 PDT 1996
Article: 66447 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!news.abs.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:21:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <51airu$i0u@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <51cfqp$igi@juliana.sprynet.com> <323ec7da.930891197@news.zilker.net>
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In article <323ec7da.930891197@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
Curtis) wrote:

> rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >Mr. Anderson:  Who assigned Steicher this "job" as you put it?
> 
> Hitler allowed him to continue to publish because Streicher served
> Hitler's ends. If he didn't serve the needs of the party or was
> detremental to the party he would be removed from posts and maybe even
> silenced. The White Rose was exterminated for distributing leaflets.
> There was no freedom of speech in Nazi Germany when it contained
> comments detremental to the people in power.

"..._Ach, der Goering!_ -He never really consummated his marriage. -Yes, 
I know it was Goering who was responsible for having me kicked out of my
position as Gauleiter in 1940, on account of that story about his child 
being a test-tube baby. But I can't help that. I must speak what I believe 
to be the truth." -Julias Streicher. (Gilbert, _Nuremberg Dairy_, p.10.) 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 19:07:09 PDT 1996
Article: 66467 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time and lies while he is at it...
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:29:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <51d4q7$9gc@news.enter.net> <51e926$lo8@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <323B1098.7707@unb.ca> <51fbkk$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>  <51h5i0$1gj@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <51in0v$ms9@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <51in0v$ms9@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

[snip]

> How long are you going to keep this up, Matt?  Aside from Tom Moran,
> who has the mind of a five-year-old, and "Kurt Stele," an admitting
> antisemite and obvious nazi sympathizer, there's nobody on this group
> who takes you seriously anymore.  Isn't it about time you started 
> posting to rec.pets.cats or something?  I hear cats are actually
> agents of Satan; I'm sure you could build a good case for that...


Oh, Bill, Bill, Bill... Don't suggest that the Giwer-boob go pester the
nice people in alt.rec.cats. Even if cats _were_ agents of Satan, they
don't deserve the Giwer-boob, _the_ agent of Stupidity. Better that the
Giwer-boob go explore alt.sex.whiffleball or something. I'm sure the many
permutations will keep him busy for _months_. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 19:45:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66469 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: JBelling is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:17:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
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In article <51lpm4$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  snip
> >  
> >  -Danny Keren.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Your conclusion is far from infallible,  Neither you nor I will ever know the
> circumstances surrounding the so-called  Hoess memoirs, but based upon the 
> track record of the Soviets, I would say I have the edge.

Actually, Herr Schwarzesel, if that is all you are going on, I would have
to say you have dementia. It seems to disproportionately afflict Holocaust
deniers for some reason.... 

Ho"ss's memoirs are corroborated by others such as Broad, Kremer, Nyiszli,
Bendel, and Tauber. But, of course, you must avoid acknowledging this
fact, as it blows rather large holes through your unsupported and wild
_speculation_ that the Soviets coerced Ho"ss when he was writing his
memoirs. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 22:26:32 PDT 1996
Article: 66492 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kurt Stele, Please Answer The White Courtesy Phone, Part II
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:04:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
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In article <51ifhh$1iv@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
> 
> >Kurt Stele (kurtstele@aol.com) wrote:
> 
> >: If you want to disprove Dresden then knock yourself out. If the Dresden
> >: event has blatant contradictions within it than it should be discarded
> >: from the History books. (So far you have not presented any such blatant
> >: contradictions).  However, if the Holocaust cannot account for its own
> >: blatant contradictions then it should not be taught as irrefutable
> History
> >: (that is a Lie) and its deficiencies should be well exposed to the
> public.
> 
> >Well, then, go for it, Kurt.  So far, all we've had from you is the
> >same old blatant nonsense about the Auschwitz numbers and few stories
> >you find ridiculous.  If you can expose any deficiencies, then do so.
> 
> >We're waiting.
> 
> Explain the "Holocaust" discrepancies as to crematory rates, Bill.  

What discrepancies, Herr Wankermeister? 

> The fact is, there is counter-evidence to the "Holocaust" and the media is
> suppressing it.  This is wrong, as the people should of this fact.  

Translated: My dog ate my homework.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 17 23:30:45 PDT 1996
Article: 101446 of alt.censorship
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!europa.chnt.gtegsc.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:56:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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References:       
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:101446 alt.revisionism:66504 soc.culture.europe:47970 soc.culture.german:86308

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
> >Kreiberg) wrote:
> >

[snip]

> >Now, again, Mr. Kreiberg, please explain the existance of the Austrian
> >Nazi Party? And most especially, the support it received from the Nazi
> >Party in Germany?
> >
> As I have told you before there was a strong opinion in favour of a United
> Austria and Germany. There were associations in both countries already in 
> the 19th century working to unite these two German people. I think that many 
> Austrians saw their fellow Austrian Adolph Hitler as the right man for the 
> job.

Is this your explination then Mr. Kreiberg? That because some Austrians
and Germans (I note you above implicitly admit that Austria and Germany
were _seperate_ countries) and Germans shared Hitler's racial-fascist
ideology that this somehopw proves, as you claimed, that "national
socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export?"

In other words, Mr. Kreiberg, you claim:

1. Hitler said that Nazism was for Germany only.

2. Austria had a Nazi party supported by Germany.

3. Therefore, Nazism existed only in Germany. 

You _do_, I hope, see the logical fallacy of your argument? 

> >> >Furthermore, Mr. Kreiberg, evidence of the "social darwinism" in your
> >> >views and writings can be found by such statement as: "Ayrans stand at 
> >> >the pinnacle of human evolution" [4] and the "first law of nature is
> >> >self-preservation. That also applies to ethnic groups and nations." [5]
> >> >
> >> >> Without the leadership principle (Fuehrerprinzip) you cannot have
> >> >> nazism or fascism, and I have never advocated such things. So simple
> >> >> is that. 
> >> >
> >> >Yet, Mr. Kreiberg, you have stated that your "political goal is to 
> >> >create a ethnic homogenous society." 
> >> 
> >> Exactly. However, because I want ethnic homogeneity, why would I want 
> >> dictatorship?
> >
> >"Fuehrerprinzip," Mr.Kreiberg.  You have claimed you cannot have Nazism
> >without "Fuehrerprinzip," and that since you have evidenced no
> >"Fuehrerprinzip" you cannot be accused of promulgating Nasism. 
> 
>  Well I do not believe in dictatorship or "Fuehrerprinzip".

Then why do you promulgate it, Mr. Kreiberg? The contradiction between
your words is damning, Mr. Kreiberg. 

> >You are not England, the United States, or the Soviet Union in WWII, Mr.
> >Kreiberg. You are a neo-Nazi "sympathizing" with other neo-Nazis and
> >calling for a alliance of "White" (i.e. Nazi-like) nations. 
> >
> >> >In a new racial world order it will be
> >> >necessary that all White nations are allied." [3] Given that, for
> >> >instance, many of these "White patriots" espouse Nazism, especially groups
> >> >such as the National Alliance, which I believe, you said of: "To me they
> >> >are simply  Americans who love their country and race" [7] and whom you
> >> >dishonestly tried to downplay their embracement of Nazism by claiming that
> >> >they are "somewhat inspired by national socialism" 
> >> 
> >> Being Americans they can only be inspired by nazism. 
> >
> >No, Mr. Kreiberg, being bigoted racists and anti-Semites, they find solace
> >on the evil doctrines of Natiol Socialism. That and they're into
> >swastikas, leather, and hob-nailed boots.... 
> 
> Gee, really.

Really. To give you a less flippant reply, Mr. Kreiberg:

"...I always wanted to get new members onto the rolls of some
organization, to get them thinking in terms of race and Nazism, And I
confess I also got a certain enjoyment from searching out people's
psychological and inteelectual weaknesses and exploiting them for the sake
of political training....The very concept of indoctrination seems negative
to a democratic way of thinking, but n  our worldview it was a positive
idea, much like the concept of propaganda. Both were means of spreading
national socialism, which we saw as the highest end. The goal was to
produce as many peole as possible who were ideologically 'fit,' which
meant they identified 100 percent with the program of the Nazi Party and
lived according to its goals...." (_Fu"hrer-Ex_, pp.238-239.)

"...The whole thing [a neo-Nazi meeting] took place in the dining room of
[Gottfreid] Ku"ssel's unusual apartment, which was nothing short of a
museum to Nazism and racial hatred....I had never seen anything like it in
my life....Wax figures of black-clad SS men in full uniform with steel
helmets greeted you as you came in the front door....Most of the figures
wore the uniforms of the death's-head concentration camp guards, but
posted in the various rooms were also Waffen SS men in camouflage uniforms
and military field officers....Ku"ssel admired Mengele for his
experiments, widely condemmed as the most betial in the history of
medicine, to 'produce Aryan chracteristics' in Jews....In his mind,
Mengele should have won the Nobel Prize....In a guest room he had another
old-fashioned, simple bed, and a big Nazi flag on the wall....Finally when
you got to his dining room, you felt like you'd emerged from the barracks
into a general's headquarters. There was a long, polished oak table
surrounded by high-backed chairs and a swastika flag on a pole in the
corner...." (Ibid. pp.248-252.)

> >Oh yeah, and repressed sexuality. 
> 
> Gee, repressed sexuality??! :-D I thought this was about racialism. You 
> are not going to tell me that racialism has something to do with repressed
> sexuality, are you? :-D  

Hey, Mr. Kreiberg, _you_ explain the reason for all those bare-chested
Ayran "hunks" in tight leathers on those WWII Nazi posters! };-> 

> ...Like you are trying to make me believe that  racialism always leads to 
> dictatorship.

Mr. Kreiberg, I'm not trying to _make_ you do anything. I'm simply
pointing out that your "arguments" are nothing more than lame
rationalizations for you choosing to be a racist and a Nazi and
promulgating Nazi ideals. 

> >> If they really want to get into the American mainstream they will have to 
> >> create an ideology based on American culture and heritage. 
> >
> >That _wouldn't_ be Nazism then, Mr. Kreiberg.
> 
> Sure. Because nazism has nothing do with the American culture and heritage 
> or the Danish culture and heritage for that matter. I think we are 
> beginning to understand each other. Nazism is krautstuff. Face it. 

Mr. Kreiberg, you sure do seem to like logical fallacies. Please explain
the existance of the American Nazi Party and its role in America. 

> >> >[8]; I find it hard to
> >> >see how you have not identified yourself with Nazism. In fact, Mr.
> >> >Kreiberg, based on what you have espoused, I have come to a very different
> >> >conclusion than you. You have been clearly influenced by Nasizm. In fact,
> >> >it is obvious, despite your futile denials, that you have _embraced_ much
> >> >of the ideology of National Socialism. You, sir, are a Nazi. 
> >> 
> >>  The nazis did not invent racialism. 
> >
> >Did I claim otherwise, Mr. Kreiberg? No. Nazism, however, _was_ steeped in
> >racist doctrine and virulent anti-Semitism. That is undeniable. 
> >
> >> It was already there. They just distorted it in order to make it fit into 
> >> their *German* chauvinism. 
> >
> >Mr. Kreiberg, German anti-Semitism evolved around 1870 from a non-racist
> >to the racist doctrine that was eventually adopted by Hitler and Nazism. 
> >
> In a distorted form very much inspired by Houston Stewart Chamberlain's
> book, Grundlagen des 20. Jahrhunderts. 

It's _Die Grundenlagen des 19. Jahrhunderts_ (The Foundations of the
Nineteenth Century), Mr. Kreiberg. And it was published in 1899. Racial
anti-Semtism, Mr.Kreiberg,  in the works of Wilhelm Marr, Adolf Sto"cker,
Theodor Fritsch, Eugen Karl Du"hring, and Georg von Scho"nerer, for
instance, had already been around for years, if not decades. 

Seems like _your_ "view" is a bit "distorted" here, Mr. Kreiberg. 

> >And to me, Mr. Kreiberg, you remain a racist Nazi liar. 

> And to me you are remain a silly slanderer and mud slinger.

Ah, but you see, Mr. Kreiberg, I've shown repeatedly, by your own words,
that you _are_ a racist, a Nazi, and a liar. 

If you don't like it, sue me. Or stop being a racist Nazi liar. Not to
mention one possessing dubious logical and argumentative abilities. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:19 PDT 1996
Article: 66525 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet-feed2!btnet!netcom.net.uk!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!usenet2.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!usenet1.news.uk.psi.net!uknet!EU.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Oswald Pohl
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:19:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
Message-ID: 
References: <323dd092.25456849@news.spry.com> <51lm53$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51lm53$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   klewis@awinc.com (Ken Lewis) writes:
> On September 16, Ken Lewis wrote:
> 
> >  
> > 
> 
> >  Yes, Hitler had other choices. The man who sent millions of German soldiers
> >  to their deaths, the man who ordered entire armies to fight to the
last man,
> >  the man who murdered millions of Jews, Gypsies,  Poles, and Slavs, could
> >  have acted like a man as he expected his subordinates to do.
> >  
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> And what was that?  Committ suicide?  God knows enough of them allegedly did.
> Sorry he had to ruin your show, old boy, I really am.  Were any of the other
> Nazis treated like Mussolini? Well, that WAS my point, after all.  But
for the record-

> How about this one-the execution of Karl Hermann Frank, May 22. 1946? 

Indeed, what about it, Herr Schwarzesel? 

"...In 1942 Frank manifested his vengefulness when the Czechoslovak
village inhabitants of LIDICE were destroyed after the assassination of
Reinhard HEYDRICH. When Frank became virtual ruler of Czechoslovakia in
1943 as minister of state, he maintained the same policy of terror,
particularly against Czech Jewry. At the end of the war he fled to the
West, but the Americans extradited him to Czechoslovakia, where a Czech
court sentanced his to death. He was executed by a public hanging.
(_Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.526.)

Compare this to the circumstances of Mussolini's death:

"...At the end of the war, Mussolini attempted to flee the country but was
shot and caught by Italian partisans." (Ibid. p.1027.)

Frank- "...a Czech court sentanced his to death. He was executed by a
public hanging."

Mussolini- "... attempted to flee the country but was shot and caught by
Italian partisans."

So Frank was tried and convicted by a Czech court and lawfully executed by
the Czech governemnt in a public hanging. Mussolini, on the other hand,
was captured and sumarily executed by Italian partisans. Some "comparison"
there, Herr Schwarzesel.

This is yet another example of the disingenous "arguments" you put forth,
Herr Schwarzesel, in your promulgation of scumbag Nazi apologia. 


>  Also, check this out:  "When Edward Benes, the great 
> humanitarian, the "bel espirit" ....

And the citation for this, Herr Schwarzesel, is? 

[snip]

> ...Kind of reminds you of Nero, doesn't it?

Actually, Herr Schwarzesel, it kinda reminds me that whatever you write
should _never_ be taken at face value. You lie and distort too much, which
is not unexpected for a scumbag Nazi apologist. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66526 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!uniserve!news.sol.net!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Take a step back and think about it..
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:41:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 81
Message-ID: 
References: <51f3cl$oud@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51hrpt$me1@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51hrpt$me1@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> >Tell me, Herr Wankermeister, how many people have been imprisoned in the
> >United States for denying the Holocuast? How many people in the United
> >States have been "censored from the airwaves" for denying the Holocaust?
> >(Keep in mind, Herr Wankermeister, censorship can be done only by the
> >Government.) 
> 
> You are imprisoned for expressing doubt about the Holocaust in
> "democratic" (sic) Germany. If not the U.S. yet, they (Simon Wiesanthal et
> al.) are working on it. 

Translation: 0 people have been imprisoned in the United States for
denying the Holocuast.

> Their current MO in the U.S. is to censor revisionism from the airwaves 
> (Zundel from KXEL) and to boycott anyone who dares speak out (St. Martin
Press 
> cancel David Irving's book contract under Jewish pressure).  

Translation: 0 people have been "censored from the airwaves" in the United
States for denying the Holocuast.

> Censorship in the general sense can be done by anyone in power. 

Herr Wankermeister, do you understand the meaning of "censorship?" I think
not, so let me help that little light bulb that passes for your mind turn
on:  

censor n. [ L < censere, to tax, value, judge  < IE base *kens, speak
solemnly announce > [...] ] 1 one of two magistrates in ancient Rome
appointed to take the census and. later, to supervise public morals 2 an
offical with the power to examine publications, movies, television
programs, etc. and to remove or prohibit anything cnsidered obscene,
libelous, politically objectionable, etc. 3 an official in time of war who
reads publications, mail, etc. to remove information that might be useful
to the enemy [...] -vt. to subject (a book, writer, etc.) to censorship
[...] (_Webster's New World Dictionary_, Third Edition.) 

censorship. n. 1 the act, system, or practice of censoring 2 the office or
term of a Roman censor [...]

Clearly, Herr Wankermeister, by _definition_ the meaning of "censorship"
is tied someone who is acting in  an _official_ capacity. This offical,
for example, in Roman times, was an offical of the government. So too in
modern times the most fundemental meaning of "censorship" is that of
_prior restraint_ and is _unquestionably_ "any government scheme for
screening either who may speak or the content of what people wish to say
before the utterance." (_The Oxford Companion to the Supreme Court_,
p.130.) 

[snip]

> >> Tell me another one. 
> 
> >How about, Herr Wankermeister, that you are an ignorant Nazi trollop? 
> 
> Tell me another one.

Your mother swims after troopships. (I took that from Joel.) 

> >[snip]
> 
> >> Is Solzehitsyn trying to tell us something?
> 
> >Yes, Herr Wankermeister. But you are, it seems, much too stupid and
> >hateful to understand it. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:20 PDT 1996
Article: 66566 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!news.nap.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:52:40 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 38
Message-ID: 
References: <51egmc$imm@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51l2ms$1q7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51l2ms$1q7@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

[snip]

> One would imagine that the security arrangements
> guarding these condemed men would be rather
> high, especially as the Soviet armies approached
> the Camp. 

Equally imaginable, Mr. Allen, is a few guards with weapons and the
ability to mobilize part of an SS battalion in response to any problems.
Like what happened, for instance, in the Sonderkommando revolt. 
 
> Oddly enough, the records and plans of the
> Cremas LACK any sign of heightened security.
> No bars on windows, on locks on doors, no 
> special fittings such as bolt holes.  As noted
> in a posting of several days ago, Crema III
> was only watched by a small guardtower with
> windows that didn't open!

And the exact records and plans you examined where, Mr. Allen? 

>Exterminations have no explaination for this.

Explain what, Mr. Allen? That you make nebulous claims without citing any
specific evidence in support? No explination is neccessaru, Mr. Allen.
You're a Holocaust denier. The explination is self-evident. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66574 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:08:04 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 79
Message-ID: 
References:   <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>  <323acb05.5858080@news.pacificnet.net>  <51ktve$dr8@Vir.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51ktve$dr8@Vir.com>, Jean-Francois Beaulieu  wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> > In article <323acb05.5858080@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> > moran) wrote:
> > 
> > > mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> > > 
> > > >In article <323a172e.5512327@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> > > >moran) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
> > > >> >
> > > >> >furnace-capacity.jpg
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
> > > >> >crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
> > > >> >in 24 working hours.
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> >-Danny Keren.
> > > >> 
> > > >> Mr.Keren would prefer to direct people to some Nizkor URL instead
> > > >> of performing the service of presenting the stuff out here, directly.
> > > >> This is because he wants you to see the reference and say to yourself,
> > > >> 'Oh he has the proof' hoping you will just accept that on it's own. He
> > > >> knows the referred to evidence is absurd.
> > > >
> > > >What is absurd, Moran, is that you are scraping the bottom of the denier
> > > >barrel here.  For the rigii unimpared, verification of Dr. Kerens's
source
> > > >is but a few mouse clicks away. 
> >
> 
>    You can ignore my response to that if you want...

OK. I'll ignore most of your wild speculation that this document is a
Soviet forgery simply because you say so.... 

[snip]

> ...Anyone who want to compare Jahrling's 'signature' on this document
>  can go at pages 223 and 224 of A.T.O. where genuine documents from Jahrling 
>  about coke consumptioon can be found on other documents. The two
documents on >  page 223 and 224 bear an identical signature but the one
which appear on this 
> '1981 document' is completelly different.... 

Mr. Beaulieu, and what makes you think that Jahrling signed this document? 
[i.e. ND 4586.] 

> ...The forgers didn't even try to get an original of Jahrling's signature 
> before to make this document, a very poor amator job. If Keren had really 
> balls he would show on his site the signature of page 223 and 224 beside 
> the one which appear on the 4,756 corpses claim to let people make up their 
> mind  with all the data.

Mr. Beaulieu, what does "Maß [?] die Richtig cit der Abschrift" mean? 

Could it mean something about the document being a correct copy? Could the
signature in parenthesis, the one you are claiming is Jahrling's "forged"
signature, next to this be instead that of the clerk who verified that
this was a correct copy? 

Naahhhhh.... 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:22 PDT 1996
Article: 66578 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NOMINATION: Tom Moran for KOTM
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:24:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <51enkr$7i9@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <51i0a2$o66@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51i0a2$o66@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

> libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
> 
> >Kurt Stele (kurtstele@aol.com) wrote:
> >: libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
> 
> >Tommy's "Desert Ostrich" crap deleted.
> 
> >: >Nobody on a.r. has been able to determine what this has to do with
> >: >the Holocaust or revisionism; perhaps the denizens of a.u.k. can
> >: >help.  Meanwhile, I invite other a.r. regulars to post your favorite
> >: >Moranisms in support of this nomination.  Support our boy!
> >: 
> >: I find it relevant.  
> 
> >That doesn't count, Kurt.  You also believe that JOOS are controlling
> >your life.  What we need, see, is somebody who finds it relevant and
> >yet isn't a flake.
> 
> Jews dominate the media, which consequently gives them great influence
> into nearly every sphere of society.  
> 
> Oh, and views Jews don't like get censored. 
> 
> But this is pretty elementary stuff, Bill.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^
Herr Wankerweister, I believe the correct word is _eliminatory_. As in the
eliminatory canal. Your anti-Semitic diatribes are nothing more than the
literary equivalent of a bowel movement. I'm sure _you_ find them
pleasing, but the rest of the who don't suffer from your particular mental
dysfuctions find them about as intellectual as a cowpie. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:23 PDT 1996
Article: 66587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: And the - real ashes?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:37:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <323ac4c2.4255094@news.pacificnet.net>  <323d61f0.3423090@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323d61f0.3423090@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <323ac4c2.4255094@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:
> >
> >[Moran's drivel snipped]
> >
> >> The only evidence I recall is a room mentioned that held urns. 
> >
> >Then you don't "recall" much do you, Moran? 
> >
> >Why don't you refresh your memory by pointing your riggii at:
> >
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/crematoria/burning-pits
> 
>         Oh no. Not a U R L. Not that.

Yes, that. A URL is to Moran as what a crucifix is to a vampire.

>         Okay Mr.VanAlstine, you got me.

Of course. It's terribly easy, you know. The phrase "fish in a barrel"
comes to mind....

>         But wait a minute. Why don't you just post it? 

Because, Oh, Rigii Impaired One, I like to see you gnash your teeth in
frustration when you click those "doo-dads" on your rigii. That and
because the document is easily accessible on Nikor's woderful web-site.
Unless, of course, one is as severely rigii impaired as you. But _that's_
not _my_ problem, now is it? 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:24 PDT 1996
Article: 66591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof"
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:28:55 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net> <842822216snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <842822216snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net>
>            tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:
> 
> > Deborah Lipstadt is a lead mouth in perpetuating the Holocaust story
> > and author of the childish book "Beyond Belief" which strives to make
> > the United States complicit in the Holocaust story.
> > 
> > She has her reasons for not meeting the challenges for debate.
> 
> Lipstadt is a polemicist and Jewish propagandist masquerading as an
> historian. But that's nothing new.

Neither is the fact that you are a liar and an anti-Semite, Al. Small
wonder then, that you would make such an unfounded accusation against Dr.
Lipstadt. 

Envy, no doubt. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:13:24 PDT 1996
Article: 66593 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen's Teeth
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:00:46 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <32370775.13060451@news.spry.com> <51algk$hg1@juliana.sprynet.com> <323eba37.927399334@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323eba37.927399334@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com (Mike
Curtis) wrote:

> Herr Schwarzesel wrote:
> 

[snip]

> >c. "Nazi Mass Murder" by Eugon Kogon, et. al.
> 
> Kogon, as far as I'm aware, is not an historian. My understanding is
> that he was in the camps and these writings were memoirs along with
> detailed research on the death camps within Germany.

I think. Mr. Curtis, you might be thinking of Kogan's _Theory and Practice
of Hell_, or another book, perhaps? Kogan, along with Langbein, and
Ruc"kerl were the _editors_ of _Nazi_ Mass Murder_. There are twenty-four
contributors to _Nazi_ Mass Murder_, of which Kogon (chapter 10) is but
one. 

[snip]

posted/e-mailed

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 09:52:15 PDT 1996
Article: 30044 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.conspiracy,alt.discrimination,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.flame.dan.gannon.nazi.scum,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Matt The Giwerdly Lie'n: Coward, blowhard, liar
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:44:54 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
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In article <51in9e$ms9@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Turiyan gold (adscapes@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : Its interesting to see Matt here on the internet.  He as almost
> : completley dissapeared from Fidonet....
> 
> He was toaded out of Fidonet. That's what his modus operandus has 
> always been--he disrupts newsgroups for his own amusement, violating
> the policies in place and making a jackass out of himself until he
> gets booted. Unfortunately, he has landed on usenet, where's there's
> nobody to deliver him...

Life's rough sometimes. 

> ...so he has no choice but to keep making himself look foolish until somebody 
> comes up with a convenient out for him.

Oh, that's easy enough. He can claim he got a job and can't spend time on
the internet anymore.... 

Or, he can go on an extended camping trip, get ate by a bear and shit off
a cliff. That'd be an acceptable excuse too. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 11:31:48 PDT 1996
Article: 153039 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 22:47:00 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 12:52:11 PDT 1996
Article: 66634 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Jbelling contines to troll... Re: Himmler's Posen Speech Again
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:24:19 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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In article <51lpgd$4dj@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> As Jack Nicolson said:  "You can't handle the truth."

Something, Herr Schwarzesel, that you should reflect on regarding
yourself. Who knows, you might even have a revelation or two. Maybe you
will even be knocked off your ass a couple of times.  Frankly, it would be
an improvement. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 18 15:16:16 PDT 1996
Article: 66644 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Evil Unitied States sailors got what they deserved.
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:45:12 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <32357e8a.4690704@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac4d0.4268935@news.pacificnet.net>  <323c423e.10639521@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <323c423e.10639521@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

> I'd ask him myself, but I can't ever make out what he posts. Its
> like being in a car at night, during a rainstorm, doing 60 miles an
> hour, with no headlights and windshield wipers.

Try pulling your head out of your anti-Semitic ass, Moran. You'll be
suprised at the difference it makes.

Mar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66694 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:40:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <51kmbh$4qa@news.enter.net> <51ok0t$bfg@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51ok0t$bfg@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> >  >  
> >  >  >  > >>      Then please present some evidence.
> >  >  
> >  >  Already done.
> >  
> >       No.  You said you had "a reasonable suspicion."  That's a
starting point 
> >  only.  It is not even hearsay.
> >  
> >       Hell I have a reasonable suspicion that Warren G. Harding was 
> >  poisoned.  Does that make it correct to assert that, as a fact,
Harding was 
> >  poisoned and ask people to take it seriously?
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> I really don't believe it either accurate or appropriate to compare the
two.  > I still maintain that the average person would, if allowed access
to all the 
> information available concerning Hoess and his capture, have "reasonable 
> suspicion". 

Hmmm. Sounds more like Herr Schwarzesel _believes_ in a "reasonable
suspicion." Poor sod just keeps hammering those nails into his own
coffin.... Pity. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:21 PDT 1996
Article: 66704 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Killing two birds with one stone
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:03:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <323eb4ea.926042659@news.zilker.net> <51pttf$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <51pttf$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> Thanks for the recap, Mike, and have you noticed-I'm still here. 

And fading fast, Herr Schwarzesel. 

>...I can fully understand that you can not read every single post here....

Indeed. Most aren't worth reading. Like most of your's for example.... 

> ...and I am sure you understand one person's limitations when responded
to by 10 or more different people-rat-packing-I believe, is one of your
not so finer points here, but I'm not complaining.  

Sure sound like you're sniveling and whining to me, Herr Schwarzesel. 

>...I can probably handle about 50 of you without too much trouble.

Which is why you keep "ignoring" more and more people? Almost exlusively
The ones who have repetedly shown that you are, basically, full of shit
and a scumbag Nazi apologist too boot? How amusing your rationalizations
are, Herr Schwarzesel!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:22 PDT 1996
Article: 66748 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!clio.trends.ca!news3.buffnet.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Lame Nazi Apologetic (Re: The SS-Guilty as Charged?)
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:23:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
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References:  <51ps9a$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <51ps9a$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[Herr Schwarzesel's Nazi apologia snipped]

> ...I imagine that if the USA was bombed as extensively on the west coast, as 
> Germany was by the allies, the Japanese we incarcerated would have ended up 
> the same way as the unforunates at Buchenwald.

Herr Schwarzesel, you seem to be ignorant (as usual) of the small fact
that the 127,000 innocent Japanese-Americans weren't interned in camps on
the West coast. They were (unconstitutionally) interned in ten specially
built camps in the Midwest. (cf. Costello, _The Pacific War_, pp.211-212.)



Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:23 PDT 1996
Article: 66763 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ausrotten and the only good Indian is a dead Indian
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:33:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 51
Message-ID: 
References: <50c2d8$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>  <51l30f$lsl@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>   <32407CE7.1095@unb.ca>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32407CE7.1095@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:

[snip]

> Daniel Keren wrote:

> > Does anyone have an idea whether this is true? For instance,
> > the Soviet radar stations, which Israeli commandos took from
> > Egypt in 1971 or so, and the surface-to-air missiles captured
> > in the 1967 war. Is the Giwer claiming that they were "sold"
> > to the US? Or that Israel demanded money from the US for
> > allowing Americans the right to study them?
> > 
> > If so, there's no doubt the Giwer will provide us a source
> > for this claim?
> 
> It's probably true but I doubt that Israel was the sole nation
> paid to "donate" prizes of war to the US.

Oh, I'm pretty sure they're not the only ones. Iraq "donated" quite a bit
of hardware to the U.S. a few years ago.... };-> 

Not to mention that I've heard rumors (unsubstantiated of course) that
we've bought Soviet hardware from, among others, Egypt, Syria, and various
CIS republics. 

> Which reminds me of a good story.  When the Mig-25 pilot
> defected to Japan in 1976 American techs were of course
> crawling all over the plane while the Soviets kept demanding
> for its return.  After a couple of weeks of stalling, the
> Soviet ambassador finally laid the law down and said they
> wanted their plane back *now*.  To which the Secretary of
> State replied with a straight face "Do you want the old
> one or the brand new one we just built?"
> 
> The Soviets stopped requesting their plane.

LOL! I heard basically the same thing. But, as I understand it, we did
give it back to them. Eventually. 

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:24 PDT 1996
Article: 66774 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:54:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <51jv0n$jtk@access5.digex.net> <51ptcc$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51ptcc$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> >  In article <51cc1h$igi@juliana.sprynet.com>,   wrote:
> >  >>   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >>  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  >>  >  Thre purpose of the original thread was to discuss wether
Hoess was tortured
> >  >>  >  and beaten into signing a false confession which ends with the
words that he
> >  >>  >  signs under no compulsion.
> >  >>>>>
> >  
> >  >I would like to refer you to the statements made by Bernhard Clark
> >  >concerning the treatment meted out to Hoess and his family, both before
> >  >and upon capture.  You may read them in Rupert Butler's "Legions of
> >  >Death", [...]
> >  
> >      Sorry, that is eyewitness testimony.  By revisionist rules, that is
> >  just as worthless as Hoess's confession.  There are SS testimonies
> >  untainted by even a plausible suspicion of torture, such as Franz
> >  Suchomel's to Claude Lanzmann, or Rauff's deposition in Chile, which
> >  revisionists reject.  Therefore Clark's statements must similarly be
> >  dismissed. 
> >  
> >      Or do you have a double standard?
> >  -- 
> >  Mike Stein                   The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> >  POB 10420                    Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> >  Arlington, VA  22210         position of my employer.
> >  
> >>>>
> I try not to have a double standard.  I will address those confessions
one day as well.


Translation: Don't hold your breath.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 07:41:24 PDT 1996
Article: 66780 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Whole Diplomatic World Knows
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:21:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 61
Message-ID: 
References: <323ee5cf.387276@news.pacificnet.net>  <323ffa9f.1461169@news.pacificnet.net> <324068a7.1037608553@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <324068a7.1037608553@news.zilker.net>, mike@aimetering.com
(Mike Curtis) wrote:

> tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> 
> >mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> >
> >>In article <323ee5cf.387276@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >>moran) wrote:
> >>
> >>>                                 
> >>> The whole diplomatic world knows why the United States is the
> >>> only nation confronting Israel's enemy, Iraq.... Of course there 
> >>> is the other battle cry, "Holocaust", "Holocaust", "Holocaust". 
> >>
> >>Moran, Try "Oil, Oil, OIl." 
> >>
> >>What a simpering idiot....
> >
> >Really? "Oil, oil, oil" he say's? He say's the U.S. gets oil from
> >Iraq? 

No, O' Illiterate One. Try turning the map right side up. Now run your
finger south a little bit. See the country marked "Saudi Arabia?" That's
where the U.S. gets most of it's imported oil. 

> >...Then it's not rights for the Kurds, he say's? 

Uh, O' Duplicitous One, when did I ever say anything abut the Kurds? I
didn't. Would _you_ like to make a (substantive) comment regarding the
Kurds? If so, may I direct you to:

soc.culture.kurdish
soc.culture.iraq
soc.culture.iranian
soc.culture.turkish

> > He say's Europe doesn't use oil, and that is why they don't want 
> > to get involved?

The only European nation to have been significantly involved in the MIddle
East since 1956 was Great Britain. European influence in the Middle East
has been eclipsed by the United States for some time now.... 

> They don't want to get involved because they know that we will. You
> aren't exactly a deep thinker, are you?

No, Mr. Curtis, I'm afraid he's not. 

Mark


posted/e-mailed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 09:01:13 PDT 1996
Article: 153340 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:39:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 11:55:39 PDT 1996
Article: 66812 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Gary "Gerhard" Lauck >> Was G.L. Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:00:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:101615 alt.revisionism:66812 soc.culture.europe:48002 soc.culture.german:86423

In article , olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole
Kreiberg) wrote:

> In article , Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> >
> >Is this your explination then Mr. Kreiberg? That because some Austrians
> >and Germans (I note you above implicitly admit that Austria and Germany
> >were _seperate_ countries) and Germans shared Hitler's racial-fascist
> >ideology that this somehopw proves, as you claimed, that "national
> >socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export?"
> 
> In the twenties even the Austrian socialist party wanted a referendum about
> a possible union between Austria and Germany. Austrian Hitler who said that
> National socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for export regarded
> Austria for a part of Germany. There is nothing strange in that. The 
> Austrians are Germans. Why do you want to quibble about that? 

I see. Do you also consider the Irish to be English? 

> On the other hand Hitler did not regard Frenchmen, Danes, Poles etc as 
> Germans, because they simply are not Germans. Is that really so difficult
> to understand?

I see. Hitler said so and that is good enough for you? Thanks, Mr.
Kreiberg. You may step down now.... 

> >>  Well I do not believe in dictatorship or "Fuehrerprinzip".
> >
> >Then why do you promulgate it, Mr. Kreiberg? The contradiction between
> >your words is damning, Mr. Kreiberg. 
> 
> I have never promulgated that. This a pure lie from you....

No, Mr. Kreiberg, it is not a lie by me. _You_ have convicted _yourself_
with _your_ own words. Sorry about that you Nazi scumbag. 

[snip]

> >"...I always wanted to get new members onto the rolls of some
> >organization, to get them thinking in terms of race and Nazism, And I
> >confess I also got a certain enjoyment from searching out people's
> >psychological and inteelectual weaknesses and exploiting them for the sake
> >of political training....The very concept of indoctrinenation seems
> >negative to a democratic way of thinking, but our worldview it was a
> >positive idea, much like the concept of propaganda. Both were means of
> >spreading national socilism, which we saw as the highest end. The goal was
> >to produce as many peole as possible who were ideologically 'fit,' which
> >meant they identified 100 percent with the program of the Nazi Party and
> >lived according to its goals...." (_Fu"hrer-Ex_, pp.238-239.)
> >
> >"...The whole thing took place in the dining room of [Gottfreid] Ku"ssel's
> >unusual apartment, which was nothing short of a museum to Nazism and
> >racial hatred....I had never seen anything like it in my life....Wax
> >figures of black-clad SS men in full uniform with steel helmets greeted
> >you as you came in the front door....Most of the figures wore the uniforms
> >of the death's-head concentration camp guards, but posted in the various
> >rooms were also Waffen SS men in camouflage uniforms and military field
> >officers....Ku"ssel admired Mengele for his experiments, widely condemmed
> >as the most betial in the history of medicine, to 'produce Aryan
> >chracteristics' in Jews....IN his mind, Mengele should have won the Nobel
> >Prize....In a guest room he had another old-fashioned, simple bed, and a
> >big Nazi flag on the wall....Finally when you got to his dining room, you
> >felt like you'd emerged from the barracks into a general's headquarters.
> >There was a long, polished oak table surrounded by high-backed chairs and
> >a swastika flag on a pole in the corner...." (Ibid. pp.248-239.)
> >
> Hm these Krauts have always been a little weird, haven't they. ;-)

No, Mr. Kreiberg, personally I have found the Germans (as well as the
English, Arabs, Jews, Persians, and Japanese, among others) fascinating
people. It's just the Nazis, neo-Nazis, totalitarians, and racists that
are bent. Germany has never had a monopoly of that. Just the unfortunate
tradgedy to have been responsible for the Holocaust. 

One can easily point to other countries for examples of people with
equally twisted beliefs, such as yourself in Denmark, for example. 

[snip]

> >> ...Like you are trying to make me believe that  racialism always leads to 
> >> dictatorship.
> >
> >Mr. Kreiberg, I'm not trying to _make_ you do anything. I'm simply
> >pointing out that your "arguments" are nothing more than lame
> >rationalizations for you choosing to be a racist and a Nazi and
> >promulgating Nazi ideals. 
> >
> Why do you keep repeating your slander? I am not a nazi. Only Germans can 
> be genuine nazis.

No, Mr. Kreiberg, you are indeed a Nazi as you espouse the philosophy and
ideals of Nazism no matter how try an pretend otherwise. Nazi philosophy
and ideals are no more uniquely German any than the democractic philosophy
and ideals are uniquely American. 

[snip]

> >Mr. Kreiberg, you sure do seem to like logical fallacies. Please explain
> >the existance of the American Nazi Party and its role in America. 
> 
> It is an extreme small party with a few thosands members, and it has 
> certainly not been even close to the American mainstream. They are just
> copycats. However many American descend from Germans. E.g. Gerhard Lauck
> claims that his parents immigrated to the USA from Germany.

So did my (paternal) Grandmother's family, Mr. Kreiberg. None of them were
Nazis. So much for Nazism being an ethnically German thing, Mr. Kreiberg,
given that it never seriously took hold in this country with it millions
of ethnically German immigrants....

> >> >And to me, Mr. Kreiberg, you remain a racist Nazi liar. 
> >
> >> And to me you are remain a silly slanderer and mud slinger.
> >
> >Ah, but you see, Mr. Kreiberg, I've shown repeatedly, by your own words,
> >that you _are_ a racist, a Nazi, and a liar. 
> >
> >If you don't like it, sue me. Or stop acting like a racist Nazi liar. Not
> >mention one possessing dubious logical and argumentative abilities. 
> >
> There is no way that you can intimidate or manipulate me from being against 
> the multiethnic society and the multiracial ideology....

I am not attempting to "intimidate or manipulate" you, Mr. Kreiberg. I am
simply evidencing, from your own words, that you are a racist, a Nazi, and
a liar. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 19 20:26:29 PDT 1996
Article: 66926 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Streicher's Crime against Humanity
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:27:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 170
Message-ID: 
References:  <51qf8o$m8r@juliana.sprynet.com> <51s1g4$6pj@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <51s1g4$6pj@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

[snip]

> In my opinion, Streicher should have been tried with the other two-
> bit functionaries and party hacks.  Belling insists that he shouldn't
> have been tried at all, and that doing was an infringement on free
> speech; to my contention that Streicher was encouraging genocide at
> a time when said genocide was the official policy of the Nazi 
> government, and was in fact being carried out, and that he was therefore
> guilty of incitement, Belling counters with Der Stuermer's small
> circulation and apparent lack of influence--but that lack of influence
> wasn't Streicher's fault. Prosecuting him seems to me to fall under the
> "Fire in a crowded theater" exception:  would the guilt of a man who
> did that be diminished by the fact that somebody else was shouting it
> louder than he was, and that his shouts were mostly drowned out by
> the resulting stampede?  I don't know.
> 
> Streicher's case is a disturbing one.  It's difficult to feel any 
> compassion for the man himself; the world was surely a better place
> without him, and morally it's clear he got what he deserved.  Legally,
> however, it's equally clear his execution was a miscarriage of justice.

Sorry, Mr. Anderson, but I'll disagree with you here. Let me start by
setting the stage, so to speak, by qouting Telford Taylor:

"The immaculate ex-Coldstream Guards officer, Lieutenant Colonel
Griffith-Jones, next rose to present the case against the least appetizing
of the defendants, Julius Streicher. The preceding defendants had all been
buried under documents undeniably estblishing their monsterous guilt. But
Streicher had nothing to do with military decisions and had been a
political nonentity since 1940. Virtually all of his Nazism had gone into
anti-Semitism, most of it embodied in his journal, _Der Suermer_. Beyond
question he had been an important force in sowing the seeds of the
anti-Jewish atrocities, but was that a crime under international law? 

"Nearly all of of Griffith-Jones's prosecution was a compilation of the
defendant's speeches and publications, as proof of the intensity and
quantity of Streicher's portrayel of Jews as the major source of evil, and
insistence on the necessity of their extermination. Only in conclusion,
and very summarily, did he address the legal issues:

   "In the early days he preached persecution. As persecutions took
   place he preached extermination and annihilation; and...as millions 
   of Jews were being exterminated and annihilated, he cried out for 
   more and more.

   "That is the crime he has committed. It is the submission of the 
   Prosecution that he made these things possible...which could never 
   have happened but for him and others like him.

"This was well spoken, but was the publication of a German newspaper in
Germany, no matter how scurrilous, an international crime? And what did it
have to do with Counts One and Two, supposedly the business at hand?
(Taylor, _The Anatomy of the Nuremberg Trials_, p.264.) 

These questions were answered by the Tribunal:

"Lord Lawrence read the case against Streicher, indicted on Counts One and
Four. He immediately dismissed Count One for lack of evidence implicating
Streicher in any conspiracy to wage aggressive war. Tyrning to Count Four,
Lawrence initially read much evidence dealing with Streicher's
anti-Semitic activities prior to the outbreak of World War II, which, as
the tribunal itself had ruled, could not be treated as crimes against
humanity.

"Accordingly, the entire basis of Streicher's guilt rested on his actions
>from  September 1, 1939, until the end of the war, which Lawrence discussed
in the later part of the opinion. The evidence unquestionably proved that
Streicher continued to utilize _Der Stuermer_ as a vehicle to stir up
hatred against the Jews and applauded their extermination. The Tribunal
concluded:

    "Streicher's incitement to murder and extermination at the time 
    when Jews in the East were being killed under the most horrible 
    conditions clearly constitutes persecution on political and racial
    grounds in connection with War Crimes, as defined by the Charter 
    and constitutes a Crime against Humanity. 

"Thus Streicher was convicted under Count Four.... (Ibid. p.590.) 

Though I know it is not an issue that you initially brought up, Mr.
Anderson, let me first address the issue of alleged infringement of
Streicher's free-speech in regards to his incitement to genocide. Taking
into consideration that there was no such thing as "free-speech" in Nazi
Germany, I will use the _American_ concept of the "Free-Speech Principle."
To quickly summerize this principle:

   "This princiople has two fundmental tenets: (1) that free speech 
   serves special and significant constitutional purposes, and (2) that 
   the First Amendment should not protect all speech but only speech 
   of a certain quality. The free-speech principle reflects a tension 
   between two cardinal values in our constitutional system: liberalism 
   and democracy. Liberal values stress individual liberty and beckon 
   the Court to protect expression that does not constitute substantial 
   direct harm to society, while democratic norms endorse the right of 
   the majority to enact value judgements that limit liberty. The Supreme 
   Court's free-speech principle applies liberal standards to 'protected' 
   expression but is more tolerant of democratic controls in the 
   regulation of 'unprotected' expression." (_The Oxford Companion to 
   the Supreme Court_, p.890.) 

Relevent to the argument against Streicher's incitement to genocide, is
that _Der Stu"rmer's_ content and Streicher's writings were
"unprotected-speech" is found in the rationale developed by the Court in
*Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire (1942). "Chaplinsky involved the
constitutionality of punishing *fighting words, performative epithets
designed to harm emotionally or to trigger a hostile reaction. In
upholding Chaplinsky's conviction for swearing at a police officer,
Justice Frank *Murphy wrote that lewdness, *obscenity, *libel, and
fighting words are unprotected expression because 'such utterances are no
essential part of any expression of ideas, and are of such slight social
value as a step to truth that any benifit that may be derived from them is
clearly outweighed by the social interest in order and morality' (p.572)."
(Ibid.) 

Clearly, then, Streicher's incitements to genocide against the Jews falls
under the "unprotected-speech" catagory, as they were obscene, libelous,
and clearly "fighting words" intended to incite murder and violence
against Jews. Just as clearly, Streicher was _legally_ held to account for
the consequences of his _unprotected-speech_. 

Now, Mr. Anderson, you said (above): "Prosecuting him seems to me to fall
under the 'Fire in a crowded theater' exception: would the guilt of a man
who did that be diminished by the fact that somebody else was shouting it
louder than he was, and that his shouts were mostly drowned out by the
resulting stampede?"

A question to you, Mr. Anderson: If murder is a capital crime, and one man
murdered ten people, while another man murdered only one, are you saying
that because the man that murdered only one murdered so much less than the
man that murdered ten, that he _not_ be held accountable for his crime of
murder? 

Is that Justice, Mr. Anderson? 

Another question, Mr. Anderson: If being an accomplice to murder is a
capital crime, and one man murders ten people, while another intentionally
incites him to do it, are you saying that the man who incited the murder
of a million people is _not_ an accomplice? That he should _not_ be held
accountable for being an accomplice to murder? 

Is that Justice, Mr. Anderson? 

Closer to the topic, Mr. Anderson, If persecuting people on political and
racial grounds constitutes Crimes against Humanity, and a man writes
obscene, libelous, and incitements to violence that helps cause a great
many people to be persecuted and murdered on political and racial grounds,
are you saying that he is _not_ guilty of Crimes against Humanity? 

Is that Justice, Mr. Anderson? 

Finally, Mr. Anderson, given that Streicher _was_ legally convicted for
Crimes against Humanity, a crime that involved the persecution and murder
of millions, I fail to see how you justify your conclusion that
Streicher's "execution was a miscarriage of justice."

Mark


posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 01:16:03 PDT 1996
Article: 66944 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 20:14:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 157
Message-ID: 
References: <32317319.1073014@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac512.4335230@news.pacificnet.net> <51he81$6h2@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323d5938.1190499@news.pacificnet.net> <51k2vk$8hk@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323ff6d5.491578@news.pacificnet.net>  <32415cc9.154064@news.pacificnet.net>  <3241e9f7.4292498@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3241e9f7.4292498@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <32415cc9.154064@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:

[snip]

> >> Of course you could have taken it as written to show that HCN > CN 
> >
> >What is "HCN > CN" supposed to signify, Moran? 
> 
>         It means if HCN finds it's way out of the creating format and
> into the atmosphere, then to come in contact with other elements, it's
> going to become a CN compound other than HCN. HCN is very prone to
> combining with other common elements.

Interesting chemistry notation you have there then, Moran, for "HCN > CN"
to stand for all that specious gibberish. What chemistry textbook did you
find _that_ in? 

> >...can be found in natural circumstances, and thus adding to other sources
> >for CN compounds found anywhere, including Birkenau. 
> >
> >And your empirical evidence that cyanides are present "anywhere" at
> >Birkenau is? Can you, Moran, cite the random soil sampling experiment at
> >Birkenau that shows that cyanides can be found "anywhere" at Birkenau in
> >the concentrations found by the Institute of Forensic Research in their
> >sampling of the buildings and ruins there? 
> 
> There is no empirical evidence. There was no random soil test.
> That's the big problem with the study. 

Translation: Moran was just hoist on his own petard. He was caught and
inadvertantly admitted he was spouting bullshit again. 

I like it when that happens. 

> >So far, Moran, all you have evidenced is frantic handwaving.
> 
> VanAlstine's mood being exposed.

Indeed. I'm trying not to fall off my chair from laughter at Moran's
ignorant and self-defeating babblings about things chemical!

> >> Oleander shrubs, tulip bulbs and other organic sources for HCN > CN that 
> >> can find there way into the atmosphere for distribution to other parts 
> >> of the  world. 
> >
> >And your empirical evidence that "HCN > CN" from "Oleander shrubs, tulip
> >bulbs and other organic sources" found its way from "other parts of the
> >world" to the ruins of Krema II is? 
> 
> The proof would be by taking notice of pollutants found in remote
> areas like the Antarctica. I would expand on this for you, but I want
> to wait for you to come back first and see if your the only one who
> can't figure it out.

What's this! The "proof" _would be_? Does Moran mean he _hasn't_
referenced a scientific study that has already done  Uh oh, Moran was just
hoist by his own petard. Again. That's twice in one post. Must be a
Moranic(tm) tactic:  Get caught spouting bullshit by inadvertantly
admitting it. All to distract one's opponents by causing them to fall out
of their chairs from uncontrollable laughter....

Almost worked too, Moran, except for the fact that I clued in early-on to
this tactic when you first started posting in a.r.... 

I put my anti-Moranic(tm) seatbelt on before I read your posts.

> >So far, Moran, all you have evidenced is frantic handwaving.
> 
>         "frantic" you say?

Yep. Frantic. As in "Oh shit! They're on to me again! I better quickly do
something to distract them or I'm toast! Again." 

> >> Coke production plants, traces from burning of coke still containing
> >> residual HCN and even from the large amounts of Zyklon B really used
> >> at the camp for fumigation purposes as sources for the teeny, weeny,
> >> little, micro gram traces found at any Cremas of Birkenau.  
> >
> >Want to put that into English, Moran? My gist of your gibberish is that
> >you are claiming that:
> >
> >1. The coking process produces HCN. Therefore, "coke production plants"
> >produced the cyanides found in the Kremas and other places sampled at
> >Auschwitz. 
> 
> Lets see, your "gist" of what I said uses the word "therefore".
> Can you point to any sentence or phrase that would support your use of
> the word "therefore"? 

Translation: "Oh shit! They're on to me again! I better quickly do
something to distract them or I'm toast! Again." 

> 
> >2. Combusting coke produces HCN. Therefore, the "burning of coke" produced
> >the cyanides found in the Kremas and other places sampled at Auschwitz. 
> 
>         You mean I said "therefore" to this too? 

Translation: "Oh shit! They're on to me again! I better quickly do
something to distract them or I'm toast! Again." 

> >3. The residual amounts of Zyklon B used at Birkenau for "fumigation 
> >purposes" are the source for the "teeny, weeny, little, micro gram traces" 
> >of  cyanides in the Kremas other places sampled at Auschwitz. 
> 
> Your restating reads " ... are the source ...". Can you point to
> the actual lines and show that it rates being restated with your "are"
> word?

Translation: "Oh shit! They're on to me again! I better quickly do
something to distract them or I'm toast! Again." 

> >Is this correct, Moran? Please let me know ASAP, Moran, so I can rip you
> >yet another asshole for being such a simpering idiot. 
> 
> Which part are you asking about, the possibility/probability of
> CN compounds found at the sites originating from evacuated HCN after
> fumigation, or the teeny, weeny, little, micro gram traces found?

Let me reiterate, O' Simpering Idiot:

1. You claim the coking process produces HCN. Please cite your references
for this claim.

2. You claim that "coke production plants" produced the cyanides found in
the Kremas and other places sampled at Auschwitz. Please cite your
references for this claim. Please cite the"coke production plants" where
this HCN came from. 

3. You claim that Zyklon B used at Birkenau for "fumigation purposes" are
the source for the "teeny, weeny, little, micro gram traces"  of  cyanides
in the Kremas and other places sampled at Auschwitz. Please cite your
references for this claim, showing how cyanides from Zyklon B used for
"fumigation purposes" ended up in the homicidal gas chamber. 

[Moran's simpering idiocy snipped] 

As soon as you find the balls to give a straight answer, Moran, you can
grab your ankles.... 

Mark 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 01:16:03 PDT 1996
Article: 66956 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Matt Giwer, here's the directions you wanted..
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 17:30:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net>   <51pvq5$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi143.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes to me:
> 
> # After all, your entire ego is built around the job you have
> # and the money you make.  You think it will attract females and
> # get you layed.  
> 
> Matty, why this fascination with my sex life?

Envy? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 01:16:04 PDT 1996
Article: 66971 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Whole Diplomatic World Knows
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:18:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <323ee5cf.387276@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <323ee5cf.387276@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

>                                 
> The whole diplomatic world knows why the United States is the
> only nation confronting Israel's enemy, Iraq.... Of course there 
> is the other battle cry, "Holocaust", "Holocaust", "Holocaust". 

Moran, Try "Oil, Oil, OIl." 

What a simpering idiot....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 01:16:05 PDT 1996
Article: 66991 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!news.sgi.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,soc.culture.europe,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kreiberg's plans to deport Danish citizens
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:29:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References:  <323F2532.268A@unb.ca>   
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:30275 soc.culture.europe:48023 alt.revisionism:66991

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>  
> ## How about white Europeans who have adopted Islam or Buddhism?
> ## Can they stay?
>  
> # Yes.
>  
> This is sooo touching.
>  
> I think I'm gonna cry.

Me too. Maybe Mr. Kreiberg should trot on down to Bosnia and preach the
good news? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 01:16:06 PDT 1996
Article: 66993 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news2.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-4.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is our german linguist?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:41:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References: <5182q1$5as@Vir.com> <51h2bf$9rv@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <51rra2$nut@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51s743$826@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <51s743$826@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Matt  Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> 
> : And, as you such a student of the German language, you know, as in
> : Leichenkellar, the compounding of two words does not necessarily have any
> : relationship to the two words taken separately.  
> 
> Given that "Leichen" means "corpses," and "keller" means "cellar,"
> and "Leichenkeller" means "corpse cellar"--does anybody have any
> idea what Matt is talking about, here?

Why nothing of course. Did you _really_ expect otherwise? 

However, FYI, the Giwer-boob, being the "expert" in the German language he
is, claimed some time ago, in article
<4m736d$9i1@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, that the definition of
Leichenkellar was: 

"Keller = cellar.  Leichen = Leichen."

Surely, it must be a terrible burden to have an "IQ" of "163"....

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:50 PDT 1996
Article: 67013 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Was Gerhard Lauck Framed By Anti-Racists?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:00:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <51p9qa$1me@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51q8v9$n1j@news.enter.net>
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In article <51q8v9$n1j@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> >   mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> 
> ...You have a silly eccentric view of the world and ask everybody else to 
> cater to your inane whims.
> 
> You are a nutcase.
> 
> That is something you cannot change.

But something a frontal lobotomy can....  

Maybe we should start a collection so that the Giwer-boob can get one? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:51 PDT 1996
Article: 67016 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:27:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 67
Message-ID: 
References: <51r0jp$9db@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51r0jp$9db@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

[From _The Belsen Trial_. From what page Herr Schwarzesel doesn't say.]

[snip]

> ....When I took over the camp, winter supplies for 1500 internees had been 
> indented for; some had been received, but the greater part had not been 
> delivered.  This failure was due not only to difficulties of transport but 
> also to the fact that practically nothing is available in this area and all 
> must be brought from outside the area.....For the last four days there has 
> been no delivery from Hanover owing to interrupted communications, and I 
> shall be compelled, if this state of affairs prevails till the end of the 
> week, to fetch bread also by means of lorry from Hanover.  The lorries 
> alloted to the local unit are in no way adequate for this work and I am 
> compelled to ask for at least three to four lorries and five to six   
> trailers....

[snip]

> End of quote
> 

> It is clear to me that Kramer was doing everything he could to make the 
> best out of a bad situation.  In effect, he was caught between a rock and 
> a hard place.  The very fact that his conscience was clear is the fact 
> that he remained in the camp and peacefully arranged to turn it over to 
> the allies, when he could have fled....

"...Furthermore, towards the end of the war great numbers of former
concentration-camp guards were re-drafted into the field divisions of the
Waffen-SS, whose bad reputation they certainly did not diminish. For
instance the guards, who were observed by Brigadier-General Glyn-Hughes in
April 1945 shooting indiscriminately among the mob of gibibbering
skeletons at Belsen, were racial German recruits for the Waffen-SS from
Hungary, who were in training at the neighboring armoured warfare
school.[1]..."  (Reitlinger, _The SS: alibi of a nation 1922-1945_,
pp.265-266.) 

"...On April 15 the British troops found thirteen thousand corpses in camp
Number 1. The number that had died in Belsen since February and the first
typhus outbreak was hardly less than forty thousand. They had not been
exterminated, nor was their death due to Allied bombing which had
paralysed the railways and disrupted the German supply system. The
evidence at the Luenburg Trial showed that the bakeries and flour stores
of the Panzergrenadier School at Bergen-Belsen could have kept the
uninfected inmates of the camp alive for many weeks, had authority been
given to use them. [2]..." (Ibid. p.425.)

1. _The Belsen Trial_ (London, 1949), edited Raymond Philipps, p.34. 

2. _The Belsen Trial_ (London, 1948), p.178


[The rest of Herr Schwarzesel's scumbag Nazi apologia snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 09:44:52 PDT 1996
Article: 67056 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!swrinde!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 14:07:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 89
Message-ID: 
References: <32317319.1073014@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac512.4335230@news.pacificnet.net> <51he81$6h2@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323d5938.1190499@news.pacificnet.net> <51k2vk$8hk@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323ff6d5.491578@news.pacificnet.net>  <32415cc9.154064@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <32415cc9.154064@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <323ff6d5.491578@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:

[snip]

> >> Did the statement anywhere imply any CN compounds found at any
> >> site originated from cherry pits, or is this the way you put it?
> >
> >Translation: Moran was being disingenous. First, he states that "cyanide
> >compounds are found naturally...and are in fact even produced by organic
> >processes..." One such "process" Moran then leads us to is cherry trees,
> >in which he claims "fair amounts [of cyanides] are found in cherry pits."
> >Now he implicitly denies any connection between his statement and its
> >implications from the context it was made in.
> >
> >If Moran is _not_ claiming that the cyanides found come from "cherry
> >pits," (i.e. "organic processes") why then allude to cherry pits as a
> >source of cyanides when discusing the presence cyanides at Auschwitz?  
> >
> >To obfuscate the issue of the presence of cyanides at Auschwitz, of course. 
> 
> There's some convenient 'logic'. 

Indeed. Often the most "convient" explination is the simplest and most obvious. 

> Of course you could have taken it as written to show that HCN > CN 

What is "HCN > CN" supposed to signify, Moran? 

...can be found in natural circumstances, and thus adding to other sources
for CN compounds found anywhere, including Birkenau. 

And your empirical evidence that cyanides are present "anywhere" at
Birkenau is? Can you, Moran, cite the random soil sampling experiment at
Birkenau that shows that cyanides can be found "anywhere" at Birkenau in
the concentrations found by the Institute of Forensic Research in their
sampling of the buildings and ruins there? 

So far, Moran, all you have evidenced is frantic handwaving.


> Oleander shrubs, tulip bulbs and other organic sources for HCN > CN that can 
> find there way into the atmosphere for distribution to other parts of the 
> world. 

And your empirical evidence that "HCN > CN" from "Oleander shrubs, tulip
bulbs and other organic sources" found its way from "other parts of the
world" to the ruins of Krema II is? 

So far, Moran, all you have evidenced is frantic handwaving.

> Coke production plants, traces from burning of coke still containing
> residual HCN and even from the large amounts of Zyklon B really used
> at the camp for fumigation purposes as sources for the teeny, weeny,
> little, micro gram traces found at any Cremas of Birkenau.  

Want to put that into English, Moran? My gist of your gibberish is that
you are claiming that:

1. The coking process produces HCN. Therefore, "coke production plants"
produced the cyanides found in the Kremas and other places sampled at
Auschwitz. 

2. Combusting coke produces HCN. Therefore, the "burning of coke" produced
the cyanides found in the Kremas and other places sampled at Auschwitz. 

3. The residual amounts of Zyklon B used at Birkenau for "fumigation purposes"
   are the source for the "teeny, weeny, little, micro gram traces" of 
   cyanides in the Kremas other places sampled at Auschwitz. 

Is this correct, Moran? Please let me know ASAP, Moran, so I can rip you
yet another asshole for being such a simpering idiot. 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 20 13:16:16 PDT 1996
Article: 67111 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pulling Hen's Teeth
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1996 16:56:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <51fotl$3r0s@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <51pual$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <51pual$3ri@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   Gord McFee  writes:
> >  In message <32370775.13060451@news.spry.com> - klewis@awinc.com (Ken
> >  Lewis)Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:45:19 GMT writes:
> >  :>
> >  :>Has everyone noticed:
> >  :>
> >  :>(1) Deniers have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the
position where
> >  :>they will finally provide a citation.
> >  :>
> >  :>(2) Having finally be forced to provide a citation, they never
provide the
> >  :>source the citation used.
> >  :>
> >  :>(3) Having finally coughed the information up, it never proves to
be from a
> >  :>reputable source or by anyone with credentials.
> >  
> >  Yes, Ken, I believe we have all noticed exactly that.
> >  
> >  
> >  --
> >  Gord McFee
> >  I'll write no line before its time
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Soon I will post what revisionists have noticed, Gordon.

Translation: Don't hold your breath.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 21 18:00:09 PDT 1996
Article: 67435 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Forensic Studies, Enemies of the Myth
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:45:49 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <32317319.1073014@news.pacificnet.net> <323ac512.4335230@news.pacificnet.net> <51he81$6h2@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323d5938.1190499@news.pacificnet.net> <51k2vk$8hk@d31sg0.Stanford.EDU> <323ff6d5.491578@news.pacificnet.net>  <32415cc9.154064@news.pacificnet.net>  <3241e9f7.4292498@news.pacificnet.net>  <3243665c.5710771@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3243665c.5710771@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

> ...The record is here, I'll leave it to Mr.VanAlstine to rave on
> about how good he is doing, and I will rest on the record as it stands
> now. 

Translation: Moran has been exposed for the pathetic little worm and
anti-Semitic Holocuast denier he is -and has no cogent rebuttal. Again. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 00:09:04 PDT 1996
Article: 67472 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Topf and Sons, all round geniuses
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:12:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References: <51sr0a$f6o@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <3242ab4d.2445315@news.pacificnet.net> <51vgvi$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vm69$n98@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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In article <51vm69$n98@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

[snip]

> This has been another episode of "You Were There," with you host
> Matt Giwer.  Matt, are you ever embarassed when you sober up and
> see what you've typed?

Uh, Bill, who's to say that the Giwer-boob _ever_ sobers up? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 00:09:05 PDT 1996
Article: 67474 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 15:00:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 108
Message-ID: 
References: <51ofuk$iq6@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <51vet2$2sk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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In article <51vet2$2sk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Daniel Keren wrote on 17 Sep 1996 
> 
> (Ceacaa) (Andrew Allen) writes:
> 
> # One would imagine that the security arrangements
> # guarding these condemed men would be rather
> # high, especially as the Soviet armies approached
> # the Camp.  
> 
> >They were.
> 
>     Gee, Dan.  Try looking at a picture of the completed
> Cremas.  Pressac Technique pages 342 and 343 have
> such pictures.  One wire fence. No lights. No guard towers
> except at westend  of buildings. No bars on windows.  No gate on exit to
> Camp.  

Mr. Allen, may I direct your attention to _Air Photo Evidence_, pp. 38-39?
There, if you dare, you will see that the Holocaust denier, Mr. Ball, has,
>from  the May 31, 1944, aerial photo of Birkenau (RG 373 Can D 1508,
exp.3055), identified the guard towers surrounding the Kremas.

In fact, from the map Mr. Ball so convientantly provides (p.38), one can
see that the four guard towers at the western perimeter of Kremas II and
II are but part of the 37 (as identified by Mr. Ball) perimeter guard
towers surrounding the Birkenau extermination camp. However, examining
Photo 17 bis (_Technique_, p.341), one can also see that there is _also_ a
guard tower at the _eastern_ perimeter of Krema II, between Camp B-Ib and
the grounds of Krema II. 

Oops there, Mr. Allen.

As to to the "one wire fence," which was part of the perimeter fence
system, you seem to have "forgotten," Mr. Allen, that the perimeter fence
system at the Birkenau extermination camp was electrified (cf. _Anatomy_,
p.503) -as were the fences surrounding the Kremas: 

"...Perhaps indeed the signs on the KZ's electric barbed wire also lied;
perhaps there was really no 6,000-volt current running through it. But no,
that was no lie, for I remembered having seen Oberschaarfu"hrer Mussfeld's
giant wolfhound run into the fence one day, at a point not far from the
crematorium gate, and die instantly, electrocuted." (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_,
p.112.) 

Oops again, Mr. Allen.

Furthermore, Mr. Allen, your claim that there is "no gate on [the] exit to
[the] Camp" (the ramp actually) in the photos on pages 342 and 343 is
quite in error. Examining Photo 18 (p.342), one can see the two halves of
the gate to Krema III, at the right edge of the photo, which appears to be
open.  Additionally, in Photo 20 (p.343) the half-open gate to Krema II is
clearly seen. 

Big oops there, Mr. Allen.

[snip]

> # As noted in a posting of several days ago, Crema III
> # was only watched by a small guardtower with
> # windows that didn't open!

A "a small guardtower," Mr. Allen? The Allied aerial photo of May 31,
1944, clearly show at least _two_ guard towers. Considering that there
were at least _three_ guard towers around Krema II, it is quite likely
that there could have been more than two guard towers surrounding Krema
III. 

Oops yet again, Mr. Allen. 

> 
> >Says who?
>      Keren, I am suprised and shocked that you don't
> know such simple and obvious facts.  

And should we also be suprised, Mr. Allen, that you have avoided giving a
reference to sypport your assertion? Frankly, Mr. Allen, given your
abysmally poor track-record in getting the facts straight, I'm not
suprised in the least. 

> I thought you
> were holding yourself out as a Holocaust Resource
> or something.  

It seems, Mr. Allen, that it is _you_ who shouldn't be talking about "such
simple and obvious facts," considering the glaring errors you have made
above. 

Definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black. As usual. 

[snip]

You should try and be more careful, Mr. Allen, lest you inadvertantly give
the impression that you are intentionally mis-representing the facts in
support of your specious attempts at denying the that the Kremas were
homicidal installations where hundreds of thousands of people were
murdered. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 00:09:06 PDT 1996
Article: 67541 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ken McVay, common lying holohugger
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:31:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <51q1dm$cu7@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51q9k0$n1j@news.enter.net> <51vqq7$bab@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> 
> The eloquent, 163-IQ'ed, unemployed since the age of 46,
> the shining star of "Holocaust revisionism", Matt Giwer,
> writes to Yale F. Edeiken:
> 
> # I am so, so impressed by you I could just shit all over
> # the keyboard.
> 
> That's the only thing you have ever done, Matty.
> 

ROTFLMAO!  

Poor Giwer-boob. All dressed up and no place to go.... except on his keyboard. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 07:52:03 PDT 1996
Article: 67549 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:23:36 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 59
Message-ID: 
References: <51uiq2$g40@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <51vkv9$3uk@news.enter.net> <324473da.16923047@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <324473da.16923047@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

> yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:
> 
> [list of historians deleted]
> >
> >       Now where is you apology, asshole.
> 
> Try to keep up. Mr. Giwer changed the parameters of the request in
> mid-conversation. He now no longer wants historians who have written
> on the Holocaust but has changed his request to historians who have
> written on the use of poison gas. I suppose next he will want to know
> how historians are specially qualified in chemistry and natter on
> about what stupid calim that is eben though no one has made the claim.
> 
> It all goes to his need to be dominant no matter what the cost to
> honest argumentation. That is his stated and overriding goal: to
> dominate the newsgroup. If he has to be stupid and dishonest to
> achieve that goal, he will.

All too true.

> And the "revisionists" just lap it up.

Actually, they're choking on it. Take the Giwer-boob's specious demand,
for instance, about historians who have written on the use of poison gas.
This can be easily met with less than five minute's effort:

Wolfgang Benz, Ph.D., a historian at the Institut fu"r Zetgeschicte in
Munich. Besides being the co-editot of the _Dachau Review_, he was a
contributor (on Germany) in _Nazi Mass Murder: a documentary history of
the use of poison gas_. 

Falk Pingel, Ph.D., a historian and fellow at the George Eckert Institute
for International Research on School Textbooks, Brunswic. In addition to
being the author on a work on concentration camps, he also wrote chapter 8
of _Nazi Mass Murder: a documentary history of the use of poison gas_. 

Norbert Frei, Ph.D., also a historian at the Institut fu"r Zetgeschicte in
Munich and the author of historical studies on National Socialism. Dr.
Frei also was a contributor (on Germany) to _Nazi Mass Murder: a
documentary history of the use of poison gas_. 

Then, of course, there is Raul Hilberg, Ph.D., author of the seminal book
on the Holcaust: _The Destruction of the European Jews_. Dr. Hilberg, who
in addition to receiving his Ph.D. in Public Law and Goverment from
Columbia University, is a Professor Emeritus in the Department of History
at the University of Vermont. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 07:52:05 PDT 1996
Article: 67560 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The USS Liberty attack, no accident
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 20:33:56 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References: <3241ee1f.5356450@news.pacificnet.net> <51ulbp$m5i@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) writes:
> 
> # The attack on the Liberty was as much an accident as the
> # recent attack on Quana.
> 
> By the same logic, all the losses from "friendly fire" in
> the Gulf War and its aftermath were "as much an accident as
> the recent attack on Quana.
> 
> # I don't see what's so difficult about facing that fact.
> 
> It's not a fact.
> 
> # The Liberty was sunk
> 
> You don't even know that the ship wasn't sunk. It was damaged,
> but not sunk. In other words, you know nothing, zero, zilch,
> about the Liberty tragedy; but you know nothing, zero, zilch,
> on any topic you write about.
> 
> # in an attempt to cover plans for taking the Golan Heights after
> # Israel had agreed to begin winding things down.
> 
> This is, of course, pure invention. It is also the most stupid
> excuse for the "deliberate attack" theory I ever heard. You're
> saying that Israel didn't want to take the Golan Heights because
> it would make America mad, so, in order not to make America
> mad, they bombed an American ship... how stupid can you be,
> for God's sake?

How stupid? Just watch. I'm sure it will get even better. DvdThomas rarely
dissapoints.... };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 07:52:06 PDT 1996
Article: 67620 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.ibm.net.il!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1996 12:28:57 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References:  <520dte$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <520dte$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> If thousands of people dies as a result of illness contracted through
> other people, then this is not murder.  As to who was responsible
> for the conditions-that would have to have been Gluecks, (Normally
> Gluecks, but at this time he was out of commission) Pohl, and Hoess.
> Kramer was the fall guy.  He was not guilty.

Herr Schwarzesel's Nazi apologia comes full-bloom. He white-washes the
crimes of the Nazis, who _forced_ the inmates of Bergen-Belgen to live in
conditions that _caused_ them to die of disease, starvationn, and
privation. Not to mention Nazi brutality and outright murder. Yet, Herr
Schwarzesel has, in his typically snide fashion, implicitly condemmed the
British because, for a short time ater the camp was liberated, victims
continued to die from the horrors inflicted by the Nazis.

See: 

http://xp5.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?recnum=11039033&server=dnserver.db96q3&CONTEXT=843333127.1066&hitnum=11

So, according to Herr Schwarzesel the Nazis aren't responsible for the
murder of the tens of thousands at Bergen-Belsen who died of illness? Yet
the British _are_ repsonsible for those who died of illnesses after the
liberation Bergen-Belsen and whose deaths were caused by the Nazis? 

Obviously, Herr Schwarzesel is a hypocrite as well as a scumbag Nazi apologist.

How unsuprising.

> There wasn't mass murder if these people were dying from illness....

Herr Schwarzesel's pathetic Nazi apologia continues.

If a government -or a person- _denies_ care to people who are starving and
suffering under their authority and those people die _because_ of their
starving and suffering, the government -or the person- is held accountable
for their deaths. 

> ...He made a good faith attempt to alleviate the conditions.

No, by all reasonable and humane standards, Kramer did not.

The British, on the other hand, _did_ go to quite a bit of effort to help
the inmates of Bergen-Belsen after they liberated the camp. Yet Herr
Schwarzesel lays the deaths of those who died after the camp's liberation
at the feet of the British? At the same time he exhonorates Kramer from
all responbility for the thousands who died under his authority?

Obviously, Herr Schwarzesel's hypocrisy continues, goose-stepping in place
with his scumbag Nazi apologia.

[snip]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 22 07:52:06 PDT 1996
Article: 67629 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 00:34:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[Moranic(tm) drivel snipped]

> ...UFO stories have had many of their claims exposed as being lies,
> such as the two farmers who confessed to pulling off the hoax of a
> landing site in their fields.
> 
>         Interesting.

Only if you are looking for Elvis in wheat fields, Moran. Find him yet? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 13:03:13 PDT 1996
Article: 68008 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!homer.alpha.net!news.ultranet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde.nde.swri.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi143.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay's rave review for nixing Zundel's air time.
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:56:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 66
Message-ID: 
References: <51i2kt$pb0@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51ibuk$t6g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <51ibuk$t6g@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt
Stele) wrote:

[snip]

> The fact is, revisionism in America -is- censored, but instead of being
> done by the government it is done by the media. Censorship is censorship,
> whether done by the government or by media bosses.  

Herr Wankermeister, your abject ignorance of the meaning and context by
which the word "censorship" is being used is fully illuminated, both by
your comment above, and by the following:

"...The term _censorship_ might encompass almost any restriction on the
dissemination or content of expression, but most fundementally it means
*prior restraint- any government scheme for screening either who may speak
or the content of what people wish to say before the utterance...." (_The
Oxford Companion to the Supreme Court_, p. 130.)

Furthermore, Herr Wankermeister,  you might also consider in relation to
your claims that "revisionism in America -is- censored":

"The Court first directly addressed the constitutionality of prior
restraint in *Near v. Minnesota (1931). IN question was a Minnesota law
that allowed judges to eliminate as a public nuisance any 'malicious,
scandalous and defamatory' newspaper or periodical (see LIBEL). A state
court had declared a newspaper, the _Saturday PRess_, to be a public
nuisance after it had attacked public officials with allegations of
corruption, laziness, and illicit contact with gangsters. Much of the
meterial seemed anti-Semitic. The state court issued an order forever
prohibiting the editors 'from producing, editing, publishing, circulating,
having in their possesion, selling or giving away any publication
whatsoever which is a malicious, scandalous, or defamatory newspaper'
either under the title of the _Saturday Press_ or any other title (p.706).
Violation of the order would constitute contempt of court. 

"By a margin of 5 to 4, the U.S. Supreme Court found the statute to be an
unconstitutional for of censorship, because before the banned newspaper
could publish again, the editors would have to satisfy a judge as to the
new publication's good character. CHief Justice Charles Evans *Hughes for
the majority concluded that prior restraint would be constitutional only
in extreme circumstances, for example, if a newspaper were about to
publish the location of troops in wartime.... 

"In subsequent cases, the Court dissapproved of the administrative
licensing of free speech where the licenser can make decisions based on
the context of the would-be-speaker's expression." [cf. *Lovell v. Griffin
(1938), Joseph Burstyn, Inc, v. Wilson (1951), Hannegan v. Esquire, Inc.
(1946), *New York Times Co. v. United States (1971).] (Ibid.)  

Herr Wankermeister, your abject ignorance aside, please ennumerate the
instances you claim where prior restraint (i.e. censorship) against the
publication of Holocaust denial material was upheld in the United States.
Failure to promptly do so will only confirm that you are merely blowing
smoke out your ass. Again. Therefore, Herr Wankermeister, I cordially
suggest you stop diddling yourself and hop to it! 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 13:03:14 PDT 1996
Article: 68022 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 08:21:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
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In article <525umk$lpl@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  >   rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> >  
> >  >  >  >  >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >  
> >  >  >         You are making a Giwer of yourself...........
> >  
> >       And your qualifications to contradict the opinion of a forensic 
> >  pathologist are?
> >  
> >       --YFE
> >  
> >>>>
> I am not contradicting his opinion. I am ignoring it until I see the
original results of the toxicological tests which you say were conducted.

Tsk, tsk, Herr Schwarzesel, such poor sophistry is rather pathetic.
Typical of you, but still pathetic....

But to address Mr. Edeiken's question: Your qualifications for _ignoring_
the opinion of a forensic  pathologist are? (Besides being a scumbag Nazi
apologist, that is.) 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 13:54:06 PDT 1996
Article: 157633 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!usenet.etri.re.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!ames!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:28:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 14:08:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68080 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:47:01 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 40
Message-ID: 
References: <523ks0$l9r@juliana.sprynet.com> <523t9s$5mc@news.enter.net>
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In article <523t9s$5mc@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> > rblackmore@juno.com writes:
> > > yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> 
> > > Second you give them food.Food was available.  Kramer did not do this.
> 
> > No. Most of these peole were ill with gastro-enteritis.  Food aggravates 
> > this condition. Also, the food was NOT available for these great numbers.
>   
> The British managed to do it within hours.

Herr Schwarzesel reveals his penchent for lying to defend his Nazi
apologia. Food was most certainly _available_ to feed the inmates of
Bergen-Belsen:

"...On April 15 the British troops found thirteen thousand corpses in camp
Number 1. The number that had died in Belsen since February and the first
typhus outbreak was hardly less than forty thousand. They had not been
exterminated, nor was their death due to Allied bombing which had
paralysed the railways and disrupted the German supply system. The
evidence at the Luenburg Trial showed that the bakeries and flour stores
of the Panzergrenadier School at Bergen-Belsen could have kept the
unifected inmates of the camp alive for may weeks, had authority been
given to use them. [1]..." (Reitlinger, _The SS: alibi of a nation
1922-1945_, p.425.)

1. _The Belsen Trial_ (London, 1948), p.178

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 15:49:08 PDT 1996
Article: 68117 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.math.psu.edu!iag.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer Blows it for the Nth Time (was Re: Kreiberg's plans to deport Danish citizens)
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:21:44 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 20
Message-ID: 
References:  <51d4q7$9gc@news.enter.net> <51e926$lo8@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <323B1098.7707@unb.ca> <51fbkk$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <51d4q7$9gc@news.enter.net> <51e926$lo8@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <323B1098.7707@unb.ca> <51fbkk$15o@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <51im0r$ms9@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <5241q8$3ioo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <5241q8$3ioo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

> Be careful Bill.  This man has a 163 IQ.  He sees things on a level that you
> and I could only imagine.

Indeed. A sewer rat sees many things that peole do not. But then people
don't generally spend much of ther their lives in sewers....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 23:07:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68190 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:24:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References:  <520a0o$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com> <324467eb.13867809@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843401989snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <843401989snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <324467eb.13867809@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
>            jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:
> 
> > rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > >P.S.  Since there is no evidence that these gas chambers ever existed, I 
> > >wonder how this "secret" correspondence was uncovered, and by whom.
> > >Odd that crafty old Himmler never destroyed this conveniently incriminating
> > >little piece of evidence.  Also odd that the SS executed Rascher.......
> > 
> > Lack of context. Rascher was executed for harboring two children from
> > the Dachau camp and claiming them as his own in violation of Nazi
> > racial laws.
> 
> That's not what I heard. Can you give me a citation?

cf. Reitlinger, _SS: Alibi of a Nation_, p.261.

cf. Kogon, _Nazi Mass Murder_, p.203.

cf. Shirer, _Rise and Fall_, pp.1289-1290.


And what did _you_ "hear," Al? Can _you_ give a citation for it? 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 23 23:07:41 PDT 1996
Article: 68198 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "Der Stuermer"-Hitler's Favorite Mag?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 10:52:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 80
Message-ID: 
References: <32440fc6.7464498@news.inetport.com> <523cgs$hnr@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <523cgs$hnr@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

>Mike-please stop telling people I do not provide.  I will provide when asked.  
>You asked, so here is the source:  "Concentration Camp Dachau", Comite' 
>International de Dachau 65, rue de Haerne, Brussels, Lipp KG, Munich.

More precisely, Herr Schwarzesel, it is:

_Concentration Camp Dachau 1933-1945_
ISBN 3-87490-528
Comite' International de Dachau 65,
rue de Haerne, Brussels
Lipp GmbH, Munich.

...And which, on page 40, one can find a photo (plate 72) of a newspaper
article (Berliner Tageblatt, 18.5.1934) and its translation:



THE RITUAL MURDER ISSUE OF THE "STU"RMER" CONFISCATED

By order of the Chancellor the specal issue of the "Stu"rmer has been
confiscated as it contains an attack on Christ's Holy Communion.

NUREMBERG CLERGY PROTEST AGAINST THE RITUAL MURDER ISSUE OF THE "STU"RMER"

IN connection with the Chancellor's confiscation order of the Ritual
Murder issue of the "Stu"rmer" the Protestant Church of Nuremberg has, in
its entirety, issued the following statement:

In the special issue of the weekly newspaper the "Stu"rmer" of May 1,
1934, reference is made to the Holy Communion in connection with Jewish
ritual murders. We publically protest before God and our entire
congregation this attrocious attack on the Church's Holy Sacrement. It is
a blasphemy not only against Christ but against God himself.



Interesting, is it not, Herr Schwarzesel, that the "Ritual Murder" issue
of the Stu"rmer was ordered _confiscated_ by the Chancellor (Hitler) not
because it was visciously anti-Semitic and heiniously slandered the Jews,
but because it contained "an attack on Christ's Holy Communion." One might
even argue that the _only_ reason it was orderd confiscated was because of
the vociferous outcry by the German churches, such as the Protestant
Church of Nuremberg, not against such a despicable attack against the
Jews, but against an "attrocious attack on the Church's Holy Sacrement." 

Furthermore, is it not also interesting, Herr Schwarzesel, that the
Berliner Tageblatt reported on May 18, 1934, that the "Ritual Murder"
issue of the Stu"rmer was ordered to be confiscated? One can only wonder
how many issues were actually confiscated some eighteen days _after_ the
"Ritual Murder" issue of the Stu"rmer was published....

[snip]

> As I stated, MANY found this issue to be particularly offensive, apparently 
> Hitler included.  Sorry to rain on your parade.....

Really? Interesting that you claim that Hitler found _Der Stu"rmer_
"particularly offensive" considering that, despite a wartime paper
shortage, Hitler made sure that _Der Stu"rmer_ had enough paper to
continue publication right up to the end of the war. (cf. _Encylclopedia
of the Holocaust_, p.1421.) 

Methinks, Herr Schwarzesel, thoust bloweth fumes from thine arse. Again. 

Isn't it simply amazing, Herr Schwarzesel, what the need to espouse
scumbag Nazi apologia will drive people to do? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 07:37:50 PDT 1996
Article: 68223 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:00:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <843402312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <843402312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>
>            tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:
> 
> >         
> >         The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
> > "eyewitness" accounts of what they saw.
> > 
> >         UFO stories are largely based on "eyewitness" accounts of what
> > they saw.
> > 
> 
> 
> Why aren't people who question UFOs branded anti-Semitic?

Because, Al, skepticism of UFO claims has nothing to to with anti-Semitism? 

Duh.

Leave it to an anti-Semite like you (and those like you), Al, to try and
equate the two so you can white-wash anti-Semitism.... 

How pathetic. Really.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 07:37:51 PDT 1996
Article: 68245 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Moran Even Responds At All
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:35:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <32453492.431710@news.pacificnet.net> <5271or$qc1@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
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In article <5271or$qc1@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
wrote:

>         The real reason Moran posts here at all is that Moran is a twits.
> 

Considering that Moran frequently responds to himself as if he had a
multiple personality disorder, was that meant to be "Moran is a twit" or
the "Morans are twits?" 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 15:19:46 PDT 1996
Article: 68408 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "..they lived right inside the gas chambers."
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:24:38 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f768.3810916@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247f768.3810916@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

>         "In the fall of 1944" would be about the time of mass gassing of
> the Hungarian Jews, put at 400,000. We might expect that the walls and
> floors of the chambers would be pretty well saturated, imbedded even,
> with the super duper, terrible, omni-potent, lethal, deadly Zyklone B
> and wonder about such a place doubling as a residence.

"We might expect?" Excuse me, Moran, but _why_ might "we" expect this?
Because _you_, Mr. Factually Challenged, says so? 

What, exactly, Moran, is your physical evidence that indicates "the walls
and floors of the chambers [of Krema V] would be pretty well saturated,
imbedded even, with the super duper [sic], terrible, omni-potent [sic],
lethal, deadly Zyklone B [sic]?" What is your evidence that this alledged
level of "imbedding" was harmful to the Sonderkommando is? What is your
evidence that the Nazis could have cared one whit about the Sonderkommando
if the levels were harmful is? 

In other words, Moran, what _proof_ do you have that supports your
"expectations" (i.e. your prejudices)?  

What? You don't have any? How unsuprising. Yet another empty Moranic(tm) lie. 

[snip]

BTW, Moran, it's "super-duper," not "super duper;" "omnipotent," not
"omni-potent;" and "Zyklon B," not "Zyclone B."
  

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 16:01:02 PDT 1996
Article: 68431 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Hoess Memoirs
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 09:37:31 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <5241oc$3ioo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <525jvk$ias@juliana.sprynet.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <525jvk$ias@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

[snip]

> Any "confession" extracted by  force,threat, torture, or coercion is invalid.

And exactly where, Herr Schwarzesel, was the confession that Ho"ss gave
the British exclusively used in a court to determine Ho"ss's guilt?  At
Kaltenberunner's trial at Nuremberg? Um, I don't think so. Ho"ss
_testified_ at Nueremberg -without being coerced, btw- that, for
instance,"hundreds of thousands of human beings were sent to their deaths"
at while he was Commandant of Auschwitz. (cf. Taylor,_The Anatomy of the
Nuremberg trials_, p.362-363.)  

How about in Poland? Was the confession Ho"ss gave the British on his
capture used in his trial in Poland? Well, Herr Schwarzesel, _was_ it? 

BTW, Herr Schwarzesel, why don't _you_ post the confession Ho"ss gave the
British so we can examine it to see if it was indeed submitted or not at
Ho"ss's trial? 

Or is that too much to ask of a scumbag Nazi apologist? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 16:01:02 PDT 1996
Article: 68432 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news-out.microserve.net!news-in.microserve.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: If Ole walks like a duck, and Ole talks like a....
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 11:29:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <51c869$9o1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51f4gr$pbc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <323b5ec5.26075918@news.awinc.com><51c869$9o1@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <51f4gr$pbc@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <323b5ec5.26075918@news.awinc.com> <51h5dg$1gj@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <5241ov$3ioo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <5241ov$3ioo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

[snip]

>...Or is it even more likely that Mr. Giwer knows nothing of the Weimar
>Constitution?

A rhetorical question, I hope? Not only is the Giwer-boob supremely
ignorant about the Weimar Constitution, he also hasn't the slightest clue
about the U.S. Constitution as well! A fact that has been demonstrated by
several _Canadians_, as well as others, here in a.r. time and time again!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 16:01:03 PDT 1996
Article: 68437 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:15:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net> <843402312snz@abaron.demon.co.uk> <3247ea7d.504211@news.pacificnet.net>
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In article <3247ea7d.504211@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) wrote:
> 
> >In article <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>
> >           tm@pacificnet.net "tom moran" writes:
> >
> >>         
> >>         The Holocaust story is one that is mostly supported by
> >> "eyewitness" accounts of what they saw.
> >> 
> >>         UFO stories are largely based on "eyewitness" accounts of what
> >> they saw.
> >> 
> >
> >
> >Why aren't people who question UFOs branded anti-Semitic?
> 
>         Damn interesting question.

You find Elvis yet, Moran? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 17:39:13 PDT 1996
Article: 157934 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:25:49 -0800
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Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 17:42:37 PDT 1996
Article: 68463 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher's Crime against Humanity
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:39:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 118
Message-ID: 
References:  <51qf8o$m8r@juliana.sprynet.com> <51s1g4$6pj@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <51qf8o$m8r@juliana.sprynet.com> <51s1g4$6pj@lendl.cc.emory.edu>  <527mcl$39fs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <527mcl$39fs@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  - mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark
> Van Alstine) writes:
> :>
> :>In article <51s1g4$6pj@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
> :>(william c anderson) wrote:
> :>
> :>[snip]
> 
> [much deleted]
> 
> :>Finally, Mr. Anderson, given that Streicher _was_ legally convicted for
> :>Crimes against Humanity, a crime that involved the persecution and murder
> :>of millions, I fail to see how you justify your conclusion that
> :>Streicher's "execution was a miscarriage of justice."
> 
> Mark, while I agree that miscarriage of justice might somewhat overstate the
> case, I must agree with the main parts of Bill's hypothesis.  Indeed,
> Streicher was legally convicted, legally sentenced and legally executed.  But
> opinions differ as to whether his actions warranted the death penalty, both on
> an objective basis and a comparative one. 

Indeed. Telford Taylor, for instance, disagreed with Streicher's sentence.
However, I think Taylor's opinion was too colored by legalism at the
expense of the moral dimension. Taylor- rightly, I might add -was very
concerned about the  the legal dimensions of the Nuremberg trials.
However, once the _procedural_ events of the trials concluded, and the
Tribunal needed to make decisions on guilt ot innocence, the _moral_
dimension came into play as well. That, after all, is what a judge must
do- reconcile the legal and moral dimensions to serve Justice.  

> The fact remains that he had no executive power after 1940, was not involved 
> in the planning or execution of the Final Solution, and was mainly a 
> mouthpiece and decrepit newspaper publisher.  

Indeed. So decrepit that:

"...The guards [at Dachau] had been tremendously incited by Eicke and the
Newspaper _Der Stu"rmer_, which was posted everywhere in the SS barracks
and in the mess halls. The Jews were harrassed and persecuted enoiugh as
'corrupters of the German people,' even by their fellow prisoners. Since
there was a _Der Stu"rmer_ bulletin board within the concentration camp,
the impact was noticeable even among those prisoners who were otherwise
not really anti-Semitic...." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.139.) 

> It stretches things somewhat to include him on the grounds of
> fomenting extermination. 

Really? If a person incites a riot is it "stretch[ing] things somewhat" to
charge that person , even though he took no _physical_ part in it, with
inciting a riot? 

> He had been doing that since the early 1920s and it
> had not happened until the early 1940s.  

Indeed. The means and opportunity did not exist in 1920. Not for
Streicher, nor for Hitler. They did in 1940. Needless to say, Streicher's
virulent anti-Semtism, speeches, and writings contributed to making that
opporunity a reality. 

> One would have to conclude that he did not foment very well.  

On the contrary, I would suggest that he fomented very well. Especially
within the rank-and-file Nazi establishment. Particularly the SS. His
lurid, obscene, and pornographic writings influenced people in positions
of Nazi power all the way from Hitler, who ordered the physical
ectermination of the Jews, to SS camp guards who actually carried out the
physical extermination of the Jews. 

The man _successfully_ helped to incite genocide, plain and simple.
Streicher _did_ help convince people to take part, whether their parts
were big or small,  in the Final Solution. That is, unless, of course, you
are suggesting that such virulent anti-Semtism, brutality, and murder, as
expressed in the KZ system, was somehow innate to Germany and the Germans?
I think not. 

> The driving force behind extermination--physical
> extermination--was Adolf Hitler.  I remain convinced that Streicher was tried
> in the place of the dead Hitler and the dead Goebbels.

No argument there. I agree that Hitler was the driving force behind the
Final Solution. I also think, to a degree, that Streicher _was_ an effigy
of Hitler and/or Goebbels. 

However, that does _not_ erase the fact that Streicher's hands were _also_
covered in blood by his _own_ actions. You may argue that simply because
Streicher did not give an _order_ to kill, that he should not have bene
held to account for genocide. I disagree. I argue that Streicher _must_
shoulder some of the guilt of genocide because he _incited_ genocide. He
_convinced_ people that the genocide of the Jews was morally acceptable,
if not commendable. Unfortunately, some of these people who he convinced
_were_ in positions to carry out the _physical_ extermination of the Jews.


And because of this Streicher was an accomplice to murder, to genocide, by
his own hand. His words, literally, convicted him. The death penalty was a
just sentence for Streicher. To murder- or to be an accomplice to murder
-whether it is the murder of one- or a million -is still murder and
deserves death. 

> All my opinion only.

And one though I respect, I disagree with in this instance. 


Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 17:42:38 PDT 1996
Article: 68465 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Streicher's Crime against Humanity
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:55:30 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References:  <529pv7$ir7@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <529pv7$ir7@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

[snip]

> ...Technically there is not much hope for a defendant who starts his 
> testimony with an attack on his own lawyer.  When I read a transcript of 
> Streicher's testimony, I was bothered that his lawyer did not attempt to 
> withdraw. In a similar situation I could not see how I could give effective 
> representation under those circumstances.

"...Streicher started off his defense by denouncing hiw own defense
counsel for not conducting his case along the lines he wanted. This forced
the defense counsel to defend himself before the court for not wishing to
defend Streicher's anti-Semitism, and to request the court's decision as
to whether he should continue to defend his client under the
circumstances. He was told to continue...." (Gilbert, _Nuremberg Diary_,
p.301.)

Mark

posted/e-mailed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 17:42:39 PDT 1996
Article: 68478 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news2.insinc.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BEHOLD THE LIE
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:34:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f6d9.3668770@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247f6d9.3668770@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

>                 Behold the lie, tell your friends.

[re-posted Moranic(tm) garbage snipped]

For a rebuttal of Moran's post detailing his outright lies, malicious
distortions,  propensity for propaganda, rampant anti-Semitism, and his
delusional state of mind, please refer to:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies/behold-the-liar

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 18:41:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68489 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!cpk-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Morris can't even quote Bacon correctly.[ according to Collins].....
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 09:55:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <32415e43.532827@news.pacificnet.net> <3241a7b2.9725794@news.srv.ualberta.ca>  <3245c31d.102763544@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <3247f92b.4262509@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247f92b.4262509@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

> No wonder this guy is back so soon from his high falootin job he
> went off to a couple of months ago.

It's "highfalutin," Moran. If you are going to use American
colloquialisms, at least _spell_ them correctly! 

Cretin.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 21:34:53 PDT 1996
Article: 68502 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-200.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:18:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>  <3247ea7f.506847@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247ea7f.506847@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

> ...You can only do what you can do. Nature ain't fair.

Indeed. But Nature was downright cruel to _you_ when passing out brains....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Sep 24 21:34:54 PDT 1996
Article: 68518 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "..they lived right inside the gas chambers."
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 12:29:24 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f768.3810916@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247f768.3810916@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

[snip]

>         "In the fall of 1944" would be about the time of mass gassing of
> the Hungarian Jews, put at 400,000. We might expect that the walls and
> floors of the chambers would be pretty well saturated, imbedded even,
> with the super duper, terrible, omni-potent, lethal, deadly Zyklone B
> and wonder about such a place doubling as a residence.

"We might expect?" Excuse me, Moran, but _why_ might "we" expect this?
Because _you_, Mr. Factually Challenged, says so? 

What, exactly, Moran, is your physical evidence that indicates "the walls
and floors of the chambers [of Krema V*] would be pretty well saturated,
imbedded even, with the super duper [sic], terrible, omni-potent [sic],
lethal, deadly Zyklone B [sic]?" What is your evidence that this alleged
level of "imbedding" was harmful to the Sonderkommando? What is your
evidence that the Nazis could have cared one whit about the Sonderkommando
if this alleged concentration of "Zyclone B [sic]" was harmful? 

In other words, Moran, what _proof_ do you have that supports your
"expectations" (i.e. your prejudices)?  

What? You don't have any? How unsuprising. Yet another empty Moranic(tm) lie. 

* It should be noted that the Sonderkommandos of Kremas II and III lived
in the roof spaces of the Kremas and not in the L.Kellers. Furthermore,
the gas chambers of Krema IV appears to have _not_ been regularly used in
1944, as the furnaces of Krema IV broke down and homicidal operations
pretty much ceased there in the fall of 1943. Moreover, at the end of May
1944, Krema IV was turned into a dormitory for 700 Sonderkommandos (cf.
_Technique_ p.389). This would have left Krema V as the Krema where the
Sonderkommando, as Moran claims, lived in _operational_ gas chambers
during Aktion Ho"ss. 

[snip]

BTW, Moran, it's "super-duper," not "super duper;" "omnipotent," not
"omni-potent;" and "Zyklon B," not "Zyclone B."
  
But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 01:57:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68568 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Autopsy reports of gassing where there were no gas chambers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:04:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <529res$iur@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52a2fg$llu@news.enter.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52a2fg$llu@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

[Giwer-boobism snipped]

> Had you been paying attention, this matter came up previously.  One 
> of your denier pals (Marc LeMire) was claiming that Larson performed over 100 
> autopsies per day and additionally did a visual on 300 bodies *on a daily 
> basis* and found no cases where cyanide was the cause of death.  As part of 
> his claim  LeMire insisted this output was possible because the lab samples 
> were sent to Paris and Larson did not have to worry about them.
> 
> At that time I looked up Larson's report.
> 
> Unlike you I do my research.  The citations might well be in Nizkor.
> 
> Look them up.

Indeed it is:

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/l/lemire.marc/lemire-lie.dr-larson

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 01:57:42 PDT 1996
Article: 68575 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can't read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof")
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:07:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net> <3245970B.557D@unb.ca> <528tpp$s7m@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <3248688F.920@unb.ca> <52a01t$evm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52a01t$evm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> In article <3248688F.920@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:
> 
> >Richard Schultz wrote:
> >> Keith "It's a man's life posting to Usenet" Morrison (t08o@unb.ca) wrote:
> >> : No!  Not another Python cascade!  The horror!
> >> You're no fun anymore!
> >Yes I am.
> No you're not.
Yes he is



Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 01:57:43 PDT 1996
Article: 68592 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Kids Stay Cozy in Gas Chambers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:29:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 298
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f75c.3799052@news.pacificnet.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <3247f75c.3799052@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

Uh oh, here we go again! Moran, one of our resident looney-toon deniers, 
is recycling more of his denier garbage. Let's take a look at it and see
what farcical story he has spun for us this time....

> "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp"
>
> "Jehuda Bacon was a 14-year-old member of the truck commando who
> had to retrieve ashes from the crematoria to spread onto the the icy
> paths during winter. He saw horrible events there, but also got to
> know Kalman Furman, who was always friendly to the teens and ready to
> help. Bacon remembers the '"Aryan"' kapo Jozef Ilezuk--a teacher who
> allowed children, upon completion of their work, to warm themselves in
> an empty gas chamber."
> 
> Well, that certainly is a paragraph full. What a inferrence a
> paragraph can make. Wow.

Be even better if you were to fully cite it. Like:

_Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp_, p.374. Or _Anatomy_, p.374. 

It makes it easier for the rest of us to check up on you.  

> Does this mean that kids played a role in the process of the
> exterminations? Seems so.

Unfortunately, many prisoners, one way or another, played a part in the
extermination process. Not much choice really, as can be seen in the next
paragraph following the one Moran quoted:

"On July 22, 1944, approximately 400 Jews who had been deported from Corfu 
and had been in the men's camp more than three weeks were assigned to the 
Sonderkommando. They were by then well aware of what was required of them 
in the crematorium. They refused to work and were subsequently all gassed." 
(_Anatomy_, p.374.)

But in the case of "kids" being a physical part of- or witnessing the 
actual physical extermination process? Not really. The "kids," teenagers
and young adults actually, weren't assigned to the Sonderkommandos, 
but work Kommandos. Actual children were usually gassed to death with 
their mothers. (_Anatomy_, pp.161, 170, 361, 424.) In Jehuda Bacon's case, 
for instance, he was assigned to a truck Kommando. 

Now if one were to insist that trucking away the ashes of the victims makes 
them part of the extermination process, why then so does being a prisoner 
clerk for the SS, or a prisoner doctor for the SS, or for that matter being 
one of the hundreds of thousands of victims who died in the gas chambers. 
The main and all-encompassing purpose of Auschwitz II-Birkenau, lest we 
forget, was the extermination process: To kill people in the gas chambers.
Mainly Jews.

However, for the purpose of distinction, it is traditionally understood 
and agreed upon by historians that the prisoner Sonderkommandos were comprised 
of prisoners involved _directly_ in the extermination process. None of whom 
were "kids" but strong young men, specially picked on arrival, to work in 
the Sonderkommandos at the Kremas. (_Anatomy_, p.372.) 

> How much did he get to see of the operation while going in and
> out to get the ashes? "He saw horrible events there".

Well, it would be likely that he never witnessed actual gassings and
incinerations _inside_ the Kremas, as access to them was restricted to 
the Sonderkommandos. He could have seen people going in to the Kremas 
and never coming out and realized the implication, as did others. He 
could have seen acts of brutality committed by the SS (_Anatomy_, 
pp. 375-378). He could have seen people dying of starvation and disease, 
etc. In other words, he could have seen quite a few "horrible events there."
Many prisoners did and have testified about it. 

But as for seeing events in the Kremas themselves? It's unlikely. He 
probably could only have come as close as the ash pits located outside the
Kremas, where the victims ashes and bones, after being pulverized, were
put until taken away to be dumped into the Vistula River, scattered in
fields 
and compost piles- or along icy paths, etc. He may have seen the bones 
being taken to the pulverizing shed, which is pretty gruesome in itself, 
not to mention the implications. (_Anatomy_, pp.171, 261, 266n;
_Technique_ p.390.) However, Bacon could have (and did) talk to members of
the Sonderkommando about what went on inside the Kremas:

"Yehuda Backon [Jehuda Bacon], a survivor who later became a painter in
Jerusalem, arrived at Birkenau from the Theresienstadt ghetto when he was 
14 years old, in 1943. He came into contact with Sonderkommando prisoners 
while at Birkenau and later testified in the Eichmann trial." 
(_Anatomy_, p.374.)

> Where did the kids go after the shift of duty? Since this tale is
> a continuation of the book's stating how the sondercommando got to
> make discrete contact at times with the general prisoner population we
> might assume the kids just went back to their barracks.

This, of course, is a rhetorical question as work Kommandos, with the 
exception of the Sonderkommandos who lived in the Kremas, where housed 
in the camp barracks. (Note: eventually the "Canada" kommando was moved 
>from  the main camp barracks to live in barracks in the "Canada compound.)

> They didn't say anything because the SS told them all the "horrible things" 
> were to be kept a secret.

Indeed the prisoners were forbidden to talk about the homicidal gassings 
carried out at Auschwitz. For the prisoners the punishment, if they did
talk about it, was severe and swift. Kitty Hart, a prisoner at Auschwitz,
writes:

"Another of the insane, obscene things in the camp was that you were not 
supposed to know about the gassing or burning. Everybody knew really, yet 
nobody dared mention it. In a fit of rage some S.S. women might threaten 
and wave her arm meaningly towards the distant buildings and chimneys, 
and the interminable selections of women to be dragged away and never 
returned could mean only one thing. Yet at other times even a trusted 
_Kapo_ who had been overheard talking about extermination chambers would 
herself be shot, beaten to death on the spot, or taken away to be gassed. 
The same thing would happen immediately to any prisoner of lower standing 
who even mentioned the subject: you were gassed as punishment for having 
dared to suggest that any gassing whatsoever was going on!" (_Return to
Auschwitz_, pp.82-83.)

Seems like a pretty strong incentive to keep quiet! 

> Does this statement say they used the ashes to keep people from
> slipping on the icy walk ways? Yikes. But hold it. What about those
> stories about the ashes had to be further pulverized to obliterate any
> solid remains? Well good thing, what with spreading the remains around
> on icy paths all over camp we couldn't have any signs of what it might
> really be.

Yikes, more rhetorical drivel. The bones of the victims were indeed 
pulverized so they would not be recognized as bones. The reason for 
this, according to Ho"ss, was that shortly after Himmler's summer of 
1942 visit to Auschwitz Himmler gave the order for the mass graves 
(which contained about 100,000 corpses) be opened and the corpses 
cremated. The order further stated that all the ashes be disposed of 
so that later it could not be determined how many victims were killed. 
(_Death Dealer_, p.33.) Obviously, Himmlers orders were left standing 
for the remainder of Auschwitz's operation.

Just as obviously, disposing of the victims' remains to hide the fact that
hundreds of thousands of people were murdered in homicidal gas chambers 
would have hardly made sense if the Nazis allowed tons of intact and 
recognizable human bones to be openly scattered across the fields- and 
paths. Ergo, the bones were pulverized.

But why scatter gritty ashes across the fields? Hardly surprising, aside from
the Nazi intent to hide their heinous deed, when one remembers that many of
the satellite camps of Auschwitz were farm steads and agricultural research 
camps. Ash, of course, especially bone ash (which is mainly calcium
phosphate), makes great fertilizer. (Same for bone meal, i.e. finely
ground bone, which 
is used even today as an animal feed stock and fertilizer.)  As for 
scattering the ashes on icy paths? Why is sand often scattered? To provide
traction. Calcium phosphate, the ground up bone, is not very soluble in 
water (it has a solubility of only 0.002 g per 100 mL of water at room
temperature [Ebbing, _General Chemistry_, p.465] and would stay gritty,
providing traction on the icy paths. 

> Are we to believe that the kids were taken or allowed to go to
> the gas chamber cellars to warm up? Do they mean they went through the
> rooms to the stairs, down the stairs to the gas chambers to get warm?

And where did in Moran's quote from _Anatomy_ did it say that Kapo Jozef 
Ilezuk allowed the children into the gas chambers of Krema II or III? 
(The only Kremas with stairs and semi-buried gas chambers.) It didn't. 
Moran's assertion is therefore nothing more than theatrical speculation.

Considering that Kremas II and III were the _most_ used of the Kremas, and 
that Krema IV was disabled early on, and therefore the least used, it would 
not be unlikely that they were allowed to warm themselves in Krema IV. 
(Or Krema V, which suffered from problems, and was also used less than 
Kremas II or III.) It is also worth noting that the two westernmost rooms 
(gas chambers) of Kremas IV (and by inference Krema V) in the Bauleitung 
drawing 2036 of 11.1.43 have heating stoves. (_Technique_, pp.398-399.)  

Given the above, it would make sense that Krema IV would be the likely
Krema that was used. 

> But what about the heat from the raging or idling burnings of multiple
> furnaces in the cremation area? You'd think it would be pretty warm in
> there. 

Indeed it would be- if the furnaces were running, which they weren't in 
Krema IV as they were permanently disabled shortly after the Krema went 
online. (_Anatomy_, p, 234.) Oops, there goes that "argument."

> But then with all those dead bodies stacked up, as the story
> goes, maybe there wasn't any room for them to stand.

No running furnaces, no incineration of corpses in the furnaces. 
No stacked up bodies awaiting cremation in the furnaces. Oops, there 
goes that "argument" too.

> The Holocaust story says the cellar chambers were aired out after
> each mass murder, which would tend to make them about as cold as the
> outside. Oh', the chambers were heated the story could go?  But then
> the story tells how hot buckets of coke were used to heat the cellar
> chambers for the mass gassing, coke itself giving off carbon monoxide,
> so it wouldn't have been used to heat the chambers just for the
> children. 

I would agree that Kremas II or III weren't the Kremas used. Krema IV 
likely was. 

> Since the Holocaust story has the sondercommandos themselves
> using the gas chambers as living quarters, when they weren't in use of
> course, we might suppose they and the kids all sat around and had
> chats. Or maybe something like 'Hey you kids, shut up. We're trying to
> sleep'.

There's a few problems with Moran's reasoning here. First, he makes a 
production  out of asserting that the children were taken to a Krema 
were they "went through the rooms to the stairs, down the stairs to 
the gas chambers to get warm." This, of course, implies Krema II or III.
Now he talks about the Sonderkommando "using the gas chambers as living
quarters." That only happened in Kremas IV and V. This is apparent from 
Jehuda Bacon's testimony at Eichmann's trial (_Anatomy_, p.172):

"...Here is crematorium number 2 [Krema III], the modern one. Number 
1 and 2 [Kremas II and III] were identical. Numbers 3 and 4 [Kremas IV 
and V] were somewhat less modern. Lodging of the Sonderkommando men, 
forced to live there, were at the top."

Referencing the Bauleitung drawing 1541 (_Technique_, pp.300-301), which 
shows for Krema II (and by implication Krema III) the details of the stairs 
that led from the ground floor to the roof space, it becomes clear that
Bacon meant the Sonderkommandos in Kremas II and II lived "at the top." 
The plans for Krema IV show no stairs leading to the roof space. 

Bacon continues:

"...In the fall of 1944 they had to live inside the crematorium, here on 
top, while some were put up in the gas chambers of crematoria nos. 2 and 4
[Kremas IV and V]."

Bacon clearly confirms that the Sonderkommando in Kremas II and III lived 
in the attic space, while _some_ of those in Kremas IV and V lived in the 
gas chambers. 

So, which is it? Kremas II or III? Or Kremas IV or V? Moran can't have it 
both ways! But as Moran now shows concern that the "kids all sat around 
and had chats" with the Sonderkommandos, let's assume he's abandoned his 
(now completely rhetorical) assertion that Kapo Jozef Ilezuk took them 
to Kremas II or III. 

Given that the Sonderkommando slept in the gas chambers of the disabled 
Krema IV (Krema V still being in use- all those "those dead bodies stacked 
up," ya know), when would the "kids" actually go there? During the night? 
Why? What work would require the "kids" to be out at night, when the camp 
was "locked down?" Especially if, as was in Bacon's case, they were 
transporting ashes out to the fields and the Vistula River? All other 
work Kommandos who went outside the "wire" did so only during the day. 
No, it only makes sense that the "kids" worked in the day like everybody 
else (Sonderkommandos excluded) in the camp. 

How about the Sonderkommandos then? Where were they during the day? Given 
that Krema IV was inoperative (According to Ho"ss Krema IV was not used 
during Aktion Ho"ss (_Death Dealer_, p.37), they certainly weren't tending 
the furnaces! Very likely they were out tending the incineration pits 
instead. And according to Ho"ss the incineration pits were not used at 
night in 1944 because of air raids. (Ibid.) That means Krema IV, unlike 
Krema V, would have been pretty much empty. This sounds about right,
 considering that a mere Kapo would hardly dare to bring "kids" into 
Krema IV while it was in use. (See Kitty Hart's quote above.) 

So what does this mean? How about that Kapo Jozef Ilezuk brought some 
"kids" on a work Kommando into to the unused and empty gas chambers of
Krema IV to warm up a little by the heating stoves for a bit before they 
went on their way? 

Sounds reasonable to me. Unlike Moran's convoluted and contrived tale. 

>  Yup. Something wacky on every page of a Holocaust book. 

Nope, it is yet another wacky example of Moran's twisting of facts beyond 
all recognition so he can, like the true denier he is, make up absurd 
stories to disparage the Holocaust and its victims. 

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 07:39:03 PDT 1996
Article: 68605 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 22:57:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 179
Message-ID: 
References: <3245af4d.97689983@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <529usj$osu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <529usj$osu@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 21 Sep 1996 
> Re. Security at Crema II and III 
> 
> >As to to the "one wire fence," which was part 
> >of the perimeter fence
> >system, you seem to have "forgotten," Mr. Allen, 
> >that the perimeter fence
> >system at the Birkenau extermination camp was 
> >electrified (cf. _Anatomy_,
> >p.503) -as were the fences surrounding the Kremas: 
> 
> I had not forgotten that.  The wires were held to
> the concrete posts by white ceramic insulators.

I see. You didn't forget but instead tried to "downplay" this "minor"
detail (!) by not mentioning that the Krema II's perimeter fence was
_electrified_? 

Tsk tsk, Mr. Allen!

> But even an electrified wire fence 
> is easily snipped, knocked down, or shorted out.
> 50 or 60 Sondercommandos should have gone
> through the fence with no problem, let alone
> the 500 men supposedly in each Crema (SHM).

More like under 200 at Krema II. And if it was so "easy" why didn't the
Sonderkommandos escape during the revolt of Krema IV? Why, instead, were
nearly all rounded up and executed? 

> As you should know, the Sondercomandos were
> (again SHM) workers equiped with many tools
> useful in going through a wire fence. They
> had shears, pliers, iron bars, etc. etc.  

Oh, yes, I can just imagine "50 or 60" Sonderkommandos tip-toeing down the
stairs from the attic where they slept, past the Capo's room, then
sneaking outside to the wire and trying to snip a 6,000-volt wire with a
pair of metal pliars! In the open. Under lights. With armed guards in the
guardtowers watching. 

Right. You don't sell deeds to bridges in your spare time do you, Mr. Allen? 

> Compare the securtiy at the Crema with the
> security at the Main Auschwitz Camp.  Main Camp
> had a WALL, lights, multiple electrified fences,
> and closer guard towers.

And yet there were no mass escapes from the Kremas. Hmmm. Imagine that.... 

> BUT MORE IMPORTANT IS THE PHOTOGRAPH OF
> MAY 31, 1944.  This photograph shows that there
> was not even a fence around Crema II.  

I see. First, Mr. Allen, you claim  there was "one wire fence" and _now_
you are claiming there was no fence? What's next Mr. Allen? Will you claim
there was no Krema II? No Birkenau? 

> More accurately, the fence only went 3/4 around the
> building.  In May 1943, there was no physical 
> barrier to keep Sondercommandos from walking
> out of Crema II and into the woods!!!!  
> NO FENCE, ELECTRIFIED OR NOT.  NO FENCE-NO WALL....

Mr. Allen, you have "misinterpreted" the photo yet again. This is becoming
a regular habit with you, it seems. You have "confused" Krema II's
electrified perimeter fence with what Mr. Ball incorrectly labels a fence.
That this is the case is readily seen if one were to examines Photo 17 bis
(Pressac, _Technique_, p.341), taken in the summer of 1943, which clearly
shows the perimeter fence of Krema II to extend to the sewage basin, right
up to an access road. (Warning track?)

Compare this to the May 31, 1944, photo of Krema II (Ball, _Air Photo
Evidence_, p.39). One can see, in the air photo, a dark "fence" that, just
as you claim, extends only about three-fourths the way around Krema II.
The problem with this picture is, of course, that this dark "fence" does
not come anywhere close to the sewage basin. In fact, this "fence" extends
only to the end of L.Keller 1, or about two-thirds the way from Krema II
to the access road and sewage basin. 

Evidence of Mr. Ball's duplicity and it appears, perhaps, your
gullibility, Mr. Allen, starts on page 46 of _Air Photo Evidence_. Mr.
Ball's annotation of this dark "fence" reads: "marks looking like fences
around crematorium 1 and 2."  Mr. Ball goes on to make an issue over this
on page 48, where he tries to show that this "fence" has been _drawn_ on
the negatives (!) because it is not the same between the May 31 and August
25 air photos. And on page 62 he remarks, in reference to this dark fence
that, "The crematoria were surrounded by high fences." Clearly, Mr. Ball
is saying that this dark "fence" is the _perimeter_ fence surrounding
Krema II. 

Just as clearly, Mr. Ball is wrong. As you are, Mr. Allen. Whatever this
dark "fence" was, it was _not_ the perimeter fence. 

> Only The good Soldier Schweik and his 6 shot 
> Mausner between 500 condemned men and 
> freedom.

More like only _your_ denier fantasies, Mr. Allen, between you and
complete incredibility. Unfortunately, for you, Mr. Allen, rational people
don't subscribe to your brand of fantasizing. 

>      The prisioners walking away from Crema II would
> have had to pass between two of the small guard
> towers but they would have been screened from sight 
> by water purification tanks in an area not lighted.

Mr. Allen, considering that your strident claims of "NO FENCE, ELECTRIFIED
OR NOT" have been exposed as a sham, your claim here is irrelevent.

> >Furthermore, Mr. Allen, your claim that there 
> is "no gate on [the] exit to
> >[the] Camp" (the ramp actually) in the photos 
> >on pages 342 and 343 is
> >quite in error.
>        [snip]
> You missed what I posted, try reading it again.

Mr. Allen, in article <51vet2$2sk@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, did you not write:

"Gee, Dan.  Try looking at a picture of the completed Cremas. Pressac
Technique pages 342 and 343 have such pictures.  One wire fence. No
lights. No guard towers except at westend  of buildings. No bars on
windows.  No gate on exit to Camp."  

Well? I would point out that you simply said: "No gate on exit to Camp." 
                                                  ^^^^ 
    
> The enclosures around the Cremas had TWO gates 
> on the sides facing into the "ramp" or large central 
> street which ran the length of the camp.  

I see. First, Mr. Allen, you claim there was "one wire fence" and then
claim there was no fence. Now, after the "non-existing" gate you made a
fuss about has been shown to exist in, you claim it was really _two_ gates
you were talking about? 

You are getting rather infantile in your Holocaust denial, Mr. Allen. When
cornered by your _own_ words you simply spout new claims, in essence
attempting "to move the goal posts," and act as if nothing changed. 

> They also had at least one and perhaps two gates on the
> side opposite to the central coridor.

Prove it. Cite the evidence: Photos of the entire Krema perimeter,
eyewitness testimonies, and Bauleitung documentation. 

> The Crema enclosures had LOTS of gates.

Prove it. Cite the evidence: Photos of the entire Krema perimeter,
eyewitness testimonies, and Bauleitung documentation. 

> What did NOT have a gate, fence, or wall 
> of wide central road of the camp.  

Prove it. Cite the evidence: Photos of the entire Krema perimeter,
eyewitness testimonies, and Bauleitung documentation.

[snip]

> Thus the Aerial photographs show NO Gates
> and, at least in May 1944, NO Fence around
> Crema II.   

Mr. Allen, considering that you appear to be severely "photo challenged,"
I think it best if you quitely did some more "research" instead of your
pompus -and specious- horn-tooting. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 07:39:04 PDT 1996
Article: 68636 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.inforamp.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:16:29 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 105
Message-ID: 
References: <529usj$osu@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <52a7og$5b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52a7og$5b@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> Mark Van Alstine wrote on 21 Sep 1996 
> Re. Security at Crema II and III 
> 
> >Mr. Allen, may I direct your attention to
> > _Air Photo Evidence_, pp. 38-39?
>     You may.
> There, if you dare, you will see that the 
> >Holocaust denier, Mr. Ball, has,
> >from the May 31, 1944, aerial photo of 
> >Birkenau (RG 373 Can D 1508,
> >exp.3055), identified the guard towers 
> >surrounding the Kremas.
> 
> >In fact, from the map Mr. Ball so convientantly 
> >provides (p.38),Glad you are finally using some more reliable
> sources.  Even so, the map on pg. 38 (not prepared by Ball but
> from the Auschwitz Museum) is not correct in the placement of 
> the towers. 

Mr. Allen, where exactly does Mr. Ball attribute the map on page 38 of
_Air Photo Evidence_ as being "from the Auschwitz Museum?" I seem unable
to find any such attribution by Mr. Ball in his publication. Neither in
the "References" section on page 114, nor anywhere else in his "book." 

If you would be so kind, Mr. Allen, please point out where it says that
the map on page 38 was "from the Auschwitz Museum." 

>The tower which is shown at the Western end of 
>the LagerStrasse was really 10 meters further to the South. 
> This is evident from the photograph Ball provided on pg. 39. 

Mr. Allen, I do believe you are getting a bit anal retentive. As can be
seen in the photo on page 40, the two guardtowers at the western perimeter
fence of Krema II are close enough to the map as to be of no practical
difference. 

> > one can see that the four guard towers at the western  perimeter of 
> > Kremas II and II are but part of the 37 (as identified by Mr. Ball)  
> > perimeter guard towers surrounding the Birkenau extermination camp.  
> > However, examining Photo 17 bis (_Technique_, p.341), one can also 
> > see that  there is _also_ a guard tower at the _eastern_  perimeter 
> > of Krema II, between Camp B-Ib and the grounds of Krema II. 
>     
>  If you look at the AUSCHWITZ ALBUM  Random House New York
> pg. s 4, 15, and 19 you will see three pictures of wide central
> road of the camp, which included the so-called Ramps.
> These pictures all look to the west.  These photographs
> show clearly that there were no guard towers on the
> eastern perimeter of Crema II.  The one large and one
> small guard towers (exactly as I described) are visible at 
> the far western end of the camp.  

Mr. Allen, do take a close look at Photo 17 bis (_Technique_, p.341) and
tell me what you see. Look particulaly closely at the guardtower directly
behind the second (electrified) perimeter fence-post from the right-hand
side of the picture. 

Now, are you saying that this guardtower is _not_ a guardtower? What then,
praytell, do _you_ think it is? 

> A small unoccupied
> platform is visible in two of the pictures.  Are you
> claiming this platform is a watchtower?  On what
> basis?  There are three pictures of the small structure
> on three different occasions (including a so-called
> selection) and the structure is never occupied.

Mr. Allen, considering your myriad problems with "interpreting" photos of
late, perhaps it is best if you post these photos you are talking about? 

> The perimiter of the camp was guarded by a line of 
> one large tower and then two small towers.
> The large towers were two story, with a small 
> first floor room.  (For non-US that would be 2nd floor).
> The windows on the top floor of the large towers could 
> slide open vertically.  

And? There was a _point_ to your ramblings, Mr. Allen? 

> Crema III appears to have been guarded by one
> small tower only on its western side.  At one time
> there may have been a platform (which VanAlstine 
> claims is a "guardtower") on the northern side of
> the central corridor.

Mr. Allen, the two guardtowers at the western end of the perimeter fence
of Krema III are clearly visible in the photo on page 40 of _Air Photo
Evidence_. 

Let's see.... Given that you say there is guardtower on the "northern side
of the central corridor," plus two on the west end of the compound, that
would make _three_ guardtowers for Krema III as well....


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 07:39:05 PDT 1996
Article: 68647 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get a look at this idiot
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:45:23 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 43
Message-ID: 
References: <524lfc$n0@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>   <52aeac$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article ,
rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

> In article <52aeac$8u1@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
> mgiwer@worldnet.att.net (Matt  Giwer) wrote:
> 
> 
> > >> are you finally ADMITTING that you're no longer at Netcom?
> > >>  
> > >> Why do you continue to claim Netcom as your address? Too stupid to
> > >> reconfigure your e-mail address?
> > 
> > >It isn't stupidity. It is deliberate. He changed it to
> > >mgiwer@worldnet.att.net and then changed it back (verification of this may
> > >be seen at Deja News when doing a filtered search for
> > >mgiwer@worldnett.att.net - that's how I found out exactly what his new
> > >e-mail address is), although for what reason only an imbecile would know.
> > 
> >         Are you a JAP too?
> 
> Now you've piqued my curiosity, you impotent little troll. In between your
> romps through that gutter you refer to as a brain please explain how on
> earth you came to this mighty conclusion; if at all possible do it during
> the daytime and not on Friday, so at the least the explanation may come
> without an alcohol induced death threat.

It's easy. The Giwer-boob hasn't gotten lai..., er, had conjugal relation
with a female (homo sapiens) for some time now, and it sounds as if he
asking if you are a Jewish American Princess. I'm sure, however, Giwer's
interet is _purely_ intellectual.... Especially considering the adverse
effects long-term alcohol abuse has on the male libido. 

Even so, perhaps you might invest in some chain-mail underwear? };-> 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 09:46:39 PDT 1996
Article: 158038 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 11:58:39 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 14:06:15 PDT 1996
Article: 68749 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:17:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f649.3524811@news.pacificnet.net> <529jqq$oeh@Networking.Stanford.EDU> <32493b10.440498@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32493b10.440498@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> rcgraves@ix.netcom.com (Rich Graves) wrote:
> 
> >If you were referring to the victims of the Holocaust, see
> >http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz for historical documentation
> >and pictures of the crematoria.
> 
> > There are pictures of mass graves around
> >too; do a search, http://www.nizkor.org/search.html
> 
> >-rich
> 
>         Okay, that's one way of implying something exist. Go to Nizkor,
> you say?  Enter "search"? 

 

Only the Moran(tm) can be so stupid. 

Mr. Graves gave the URL, which of course would more than suffient
information for the rigii unimpaired to go right to the webpage in
question. However, Mr. Graves, being the kind and considerate soul he is
(and knowing how stupid the Moran(tm) can be), _also_ suggested that the
Moran(tm) might wish to use the search engine that the kind people of
Nizkor recently provided to _search_ for the file in question. 

This wonderfully nifty utility can be found- by all but the Moran(tm) it
seems -at the follwing URL:

http://search.nizkor.org/search.html


The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and has generally
conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 15:22:09 PDT 1996
Article: 68754 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:30:10 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>  <3247ea7f.506847@news.pacificnet.net> <324895b8.19675428@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <324895b8.19675428@news.srv.ualberta.ca>,
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:

[snip]

> Just imagine how horrible it would be if nature was fair. Imagine
> *deserving* to be as stupid as Tom Moran.

Now _that's_ a scary thought! 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 15:22:10 PDT 1996
Article: 68763 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Holocaust and the Nuremberg Trials
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 00:32:21 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <52afg4$lp7@orion.cybercom.net>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52afg4$lp7@orion.cybercom.net>, amatthews@cybercom.net (Allan
Matthews) wrote:

> In all that I've come across on the Nuremberg Trials I've never seen anywhere 
> where the Nazis on trial claimed that the Holocaust did not happen.  They all 
> tried to blame everything on Hitler and on each other.  They weren't part of 
> the evil Jooish conspiracy (tm) were they?  
> 
> If the Holocaust did not happen why was the conspiracy needed to purpetrate 
> such a hoax not brought out at the trial - thus nipping it in the bud?  
> 
> If the original Nazis didn't deny the truth of the Holocaust where does that 
> leave today's deniers?

Up the the proverbial creek without a paddle? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 15:22:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68769 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where are the Mass Graves
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:23:03 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 74
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f649.3524811@news.pacificnet.net>  <32493b0c.436434@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32493b0c.436434@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) wrote:
> 
> >tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> >
> >[a bunch of theorizing]
> >
> >>         So where are the mass graves, exactly? Just one or two of them?
> >> No one seems to know,
> >
> >(sigh)
> >
> >We know exactly where the ashes are buried:  in Auschwitz, in Treblinka,
> >in Belzec, in Sobibor, in Majdanek, in Chelmno.  Andrew Allen, a frequent
> >"revisionist" poster to this forum, has confirmed that core samples taken
> >at Treblinka found ashes and human remains to a depth of seven meters,
> >for example.
> >
> >I'm sorry to break it to you, but just because nobody has done your current
> >favorite form of analysis of the sites does not mean the Holocaust never
> >happened.
> >-- 
> > Jamie McCarthy          http://www.absence.prismatix.com/jamie/
> 
>         You say, " Andrew Allen, a frequent "revisionist" poster to this
> forum, has confirmed ... ". 
> 
>         Andrew Allen, you say?
> 
>         "a frequent ... poster", you say?
> 
>         "Confirmed" you say?
> 
>         Now that is very convincing.

Indeed it is quite convincing, but perhaps the Moran(tm) would care to see
for himself? All the Moran(tm) need do is point his rigii at the following
URLs and click a few "doo-dads." 

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/w/weber.mark/weber-allen-treblinka.9605
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/a/allen.andrew/weber-allen-treblinka.9605
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?orgs/american/ihr/jhr/jhr.v12n2.treblinka
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/weber-allen-treblinka.9605

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and has generally
conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 15:22:12 PDT 1996
Article: 68783 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can't read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof")
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:40:17 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net> <3248688F.920@unb.ca> <52a01t$evm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  <52asfl$ke6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52c813$lm5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52c813$lm5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

> Ken McVay OBC (kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) wrote:
> : In article ,
mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> : >In article <52a01t$evm@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
> : >(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
> : >
> : >> In article <3248688F.920@unb.ca>, Keith Morrison  wrote:
> : >> 
> : >> >Richard Schultz wrote:
> : >> >> Keith "It's a man's life posting to Usenet" Morrison
(t08o@unb.ca) wrote:
> : >> >> : No!  Not another Python cascade!  The horror!
> : >> >> You're no fun anymore!
> : >> >Yes I am.
> : >> No you're not.
> : >Yes he is
> : No he isn't
> Oh, look, this is ridiculous
No it isn't

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 17:30:11 PDT 1996
Article: 68811 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.misty.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Best Giwer Piece Ever?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:30:14 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi148.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> While trying to misinterpret SS documents about the
> gassing in Birkenau, Giwer "explained" that the mention
> of a "gassing cellar" (vergasungskeller) in the 
> construction documents of Krema II, means nothing,
> as the word that would have been used is "gaskammer".
> 
> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> #
> # Of which there is only one letter that the holohugger want to
> # mean gas chamber even Gaskammer (sp?) was the correct word
> # in German.
> 
> "Gaskammer", indeed, means "gas chamber". "Gassing cellar"
> was used because, in Krema II, the gas chamber was indeed
> in a large cellar.
> 
> Unfortunately for Giwer, another construction document,
> which he was (of course) unaware of, does mention a
> "gaskammer" in Krema V...
> 
> See Nizkor's web site, 
> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
> 
> File is Gaskammren.jpg.
> 
> Matt Giwer. What a sad joke. Maybe Joel Rosenberg is right.
> This person deserves only pity.

An interesting proposition indeed. Does a rabid animal deserve only pity? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 22:37:59 PDT 1996
Article: 68860 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:11:27 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <520a0o$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com> <324467eb.13867809@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843401989snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843675198snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843675198snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> > > 
> > > That's not what I heard. Can you give me a citation?
> > 
> > And what did _you_ "hear," Al? Can _you_ give a citation for it? 
> 
> Rascher was allegedly arrested for publishing an article in a Swiss medical
> journal. Check out Payne Best.

Al, that's not a citation. Care to try again? 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 22:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68874 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B @ Belzec
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:07:06 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References: <52chhn$5mg@lex.zippo.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52chhn$5mg@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> Consistency is proving to be elusive.  
> On page 293  of a 1994 book it says:
> 
>         Full scale extermination operations were begun on March 17, 1942.
>         In June 1942 the gas chambers were enlarged and were switched
>         from carbon monoxide to Zyklon B.
> 
>                 Edelheit, Abraham J. and Edelheit, Hershel,  History of the
>                 Holocaust: A Handbook and Dictionary. Boulder: Westview
>                 Press, Inc., 1994.


Assuming the above is in regards to Belzac, this would be incorrect.
Belzac exclusively used carbon monoxide as the homicidal agent:

"Wirth developed his own ideas on the basis of the experiance he had
gained in the 'euthanasia' program. Thus in Belzac he decided to supply
the built-in gas chamber with gasses produed by the internal combustion
engine of a motor vehicle...." (Kogon, _Nazi Mass Murder_, p.109.) 

"In the course of the initial testing, a 250-horsepower diesel engine was
installed outside the gas chambers to generate the carbon monoxide gas and
pump it into the pipes. This became the method throughout the period of
the camp's operation." (Gutman, _Encyclopedia of the Holocaust_, p.175.)

"The rivalry [between Ho"ss and Wirth] came to a head one day in August,
1942, when Eichmann's deputy, Gu"nther, and the chief disinfection
officer, Kurt Gerstein, arrived in Belzac. They had about 200 pounds of
Zyklom with them and were about to convert the carbon monoxide chambers to
the hydrogen cyanide method. The unwelcome guests stayed to watch a
gassing which took an especially long time (over three hours) because the
diesel engine had failed. To Wirth's great embarrassment and
mortification, Gerstein timed the operation with a stop watch. Facing the
greatest crisis of his career, Wirth dropped his pride and asked Gerstein
'not to poropose any other tyope of gas chamber in Berlin.' Gerstein
obliged, ordering the Zyklon to be buried on the pretext that it had
spoiled." (Hilberg, _Destruction_, pp.571-572.) 

"...SS Unterscharfu"hrer Heckenholt endeavors to get the Diesel going.
But, it does not work! Hauptman Wirth arrives. One see, he is frightened,
because me. I see the disaster. Yes, I see and wait. My 'stop' was has
timed everything - 50 minutes, 70 minutes - the diesel does not work!
...After 2 hours 49 minutes - the 'stop watch has recorded everything -
the Diesel starts.... Again, 25 minutes pass: a great many, it is true,
are dead. Ones sees by the little window through which the electric light
allows one to see for a moment the interior of the chamber. After 28
minutes still a few who survive, fter 32, finally all are dead!" (Roques,
_The "Confessions" of Kurt Gerstein_, p.23.)

"_Hauptmann_ Wirth begged me not to propose any other method whatsoever to
Berlin and leave all as it was. I lied that the prussic acid was already
destroyed by the transport and very dangerous and to being forced to bury
the acid, [which] was done immediately." (Ibid. p.26.) 


Seems pretty consistant to me, Mr. Carpenter. The thing that appears
"elusive" [sic] is your research skills. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Wed Sep 25 22:38:00 PDT 1996
Article: 68880 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!en.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/UFO Analogy
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 13:04:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References: <3244185d.2238743@news.pacificnet.net>  <3247ea7f.506847@news.pacificnet.net>  <32493b17.447199@news.pacificnet.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <32493b17.447199@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
moran) wrote:

> mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) wrote:
> 
> >In article <3247ea7f.506847@news.pacificnet.net>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom
> >moran) wrote:
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> ...You can only do what you can do. Nature ain't fair.
> >
> >Indeed. But Nature was downright cruel to _you_ when passing out brains....
> >
> >Mark
> 
>         Just Mr.VanAlstine expressing what nature gave him.

Indeed. My rapier-like whit and cynical sense of humor. All at at the
expense of a little anti-Semitic worm like you, Moran. How fitting.

Squirm some more for your "dossier" on Nizkor, Moran. 

The Moran (tm)  is, as far as I can determine, an anti-Semite engaged in
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, and has generally
conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/m/moran.tom

But what else should one expect from a lying anti-Semite who holds wacko
beliefs, is intellectually depraved, hasn't the slightest clue regarding
Supreme Court decisions, or what constitutes a dud at the  box-office? For
evidence of this please see:

http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/lies
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-beliefs.960704
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/intellectual-depravity
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-menorah-faq
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/moran.tom/moran-schindler-faq


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 26 07:47:58 PDT 1996
Article: 68977 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Acceptance makes truth
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:58:20 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 24
Message-ID: 
References: <529j5l$6ks@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <529m4q$ir7@news.enter.net> <52c6ha$6mj@bell.maths.tcd.ie>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52c6ha$6mj@bell.maths.tcd.ie>, dbell@maths.tcd.ie (Derek Bell)
wrote:

> yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:
> >       You keep threatening law suits, Matty poo.  Someday you might be 
> >drunk enough to actually do something.  Remember that the judge will be very 
> >unhappy when he catches you lying.
> 
>         Assuming Matt doesn't recieve contempt of court for insulting the
> judge...

Oh, I don't think that would be an assumption, but a given. First time the
Giwer-boob opens his yap he'll get slapped with contempt. The second time,
perjury. 

Mark.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 26 08:22:48 PDT 1996
Article: 44701 of alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.structured.net!news.cais.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi145.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,alt.politics.white-power,alt.drunken.bastard
Subject: Re: Fatbroad commands, Giwer wags his behind and "arf's!"
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:35:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <32455F57.4ACC@ccnis.net> <527gsp$9k3@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <32477083.16824151@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <529nd5$cbg@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi145.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:569 alt.politics.white-power:44701

In article <529nd5$cbg@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> One might, in fact, infer that she controls the very newsgroup
> trolled so ineffectually by Mr. Giwer! She lifts the biscuit,
> he sits up and speaks.

Yes indeed! Even Pavlov would be impressed at how fast Ms. Alpert has
trained the the Giwer-boob!

Now, if she would only housebreak him....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 26 19:26:16 PDT 1996
Article: 69104 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom Moran Can't read (again!) (Was Re: Holocaust Specifications For "Proof")
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:49:45 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 21
Message-ID: 
References: <323c290d.4191107@news.pacificnet.net> <52asfl$ke6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <52c813$lm5@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <3249af53.25185119@news.spry.com> <52cj9a$2vr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52cj9a$2vr@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> >>: >> >> : No!  Not another Python cascade!  The horror!
> >>: >> >> You're no fun anymore!
> >>: >> >Yes I am.
> >>: >> No you're not.
> >>: >Yes he is
> >>: No he isn't
> >>Oh, look, this is ridiculous
> >No its not.
> Moran it is!
No, it's Giwerundean!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Thu Sep 26 19:26:17 PDT 1996
Article: 69107 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:36:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 57
Message-ID: 
References: <3248afe3.26375621@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <52d8ot$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52d8ot$b92@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:
> >  tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
> >  
> >  >     At one time, the figures for those said to have been
> >  >exterminated at Auschwitz was 4 million, which at this time the
> >  >current number is 1 million. At least 95% of this current number are
> >  >said to have been Jews. The overall number of Jews said to have fallen
> >  >to the Holocaust has been 6,000,000 for some time. Six million when
> >  >the Auschwitz numbers were 4 million and still 6,000,000 with the
> >  >Auschwitz numbers at 1 million.
> >  >    It is alleged that the 6 million figure was never contingent on
> >  >the now defunct 4 million figure.
> >  
> >  The figure of four million killed at Auschwitz appeared on the
> >  memorial plaque at the Auschwitz State Museum and agrees with the
> >  figure given by a Soviet investigating committee, a figure itself
> >  based upon faulty suppositions about the efficiency and rate of use of
> >  the Auschwitz crematoria. As has been pointed out repeatedly, few
> >  western historians have accepted this figure.
> >  
> >  The most careful and detailed study of the question of the Auschwitz
> >  death toll was undertaken by Franciszek Piper,
> (snip)
> 
> John Morris
> >  
> >>>>
> Piper was a dollar short and a day too late.  All the "Soviet Extraordinary
> Investigation Committee" did was to add Hoess's 2 erroneous figures together,
> which total 4 million.  For more on the "Soviet Committee" see my 2 posts re:
> "Soviet Def Comedy Jam"-and there are many more to follow.

Herr Schwarzesel once again proves that not only is he a scumbag Nazi
apologist, but an ignorant liar as well. The Soviet Extraordinary State
Commission began its investigation of Auschwitz, and the numbers murdered
there, the day after the camp's liberation. The results of this
investigation, which included the estimate of 4 million deaths, were
published on May, 8 1945. (cf. Gutman, _Anatomy_, p.65.) 

Hoe"ss was not captured by the British until March 11, 1946. (cf. Ho"ss,
_Death Dealer, p.179.) How then could the Soviets "add Hoess's 2 erroneous
figures together" when Ho"ss had not yet been captured and interrogated?
Obviously, they could not. Just as obviously, Herr Schwarzesel lied. 

Clearly, Herr Schwarzesel is indeed a black (hearted) ass. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 00:55:07 PDT 1996
Article: 69183 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news.frontiernet.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 11:44:52 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <527fua$1ma@news.enter.net> <52dg4a$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52dg4a$g8m@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> The water in the camp was NOT potable-with or without the British.  Now, I 
> read that they brought potable generators with them.  So, in order to reach 
> the truth, please post exactly HOW the British supplied water directly from 
> the river without first treating it?

"Potable generators?" Oh, my. Perhaps it was _portable_ generators the
British brought with them? 

Perhaps, to clean up this issue, Herr Schwarzesel would be so kind as to
supply the excerpt from the _Belsen Trial_ that states the British
"brought potable [sic] generators with them?"

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 08:58:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69244 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dish.news.pipex.net!pipex!bt!btnet-feed2!btnet!netcom.net.uk!xara.net!emerald.xara.net!news.thenet.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: McVay's rave review for nixing Zundel's air time.
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:41:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <521joh$1ds8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net><521joh$1ds8@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <521sai$jsb@news.enter.net> <52fi2b$knq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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In article <52fi2b$knq@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> I really believe that if he is ever charged with anything, he will be
> acquitted on insanity grounds, whether or not he pleads it.

Indeed. The upside of it, though, would mean the Giwer-boob would get committed.

He _should_ be committed _anyways_  It'd be for his own good.  

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 08:58:27 PDT 1996
Article: 69252 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pellets, shower, porous pillars...
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:50:11 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 30
Message-ID: 
References: <52cfru$m78@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <52fk32$r6t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52fk32$r6t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) wrote:

> On 21 Sep 1996 Mark Van Alstine wrote
> regarding the security arrangements for
> the "Sondercommandos" at Crema II and III.
> 
> I was wondering if Mr. Van Alstine could help
> the readers of this thread with a synopsis of
> the story of the "Sondercommandos":  How many,
> what they were supposed to have done, etc.
> However, since we want to do more than just
> spin baseless stories, would Mr. Van Alstine
> fill in the details of were all these "Sondercommandos"
> slept, ate, bathed, etc. 
>    We can all check the stories against the blue prints
> of the Cremas, which were part of the masses of
> documents the Germans left.

After you, Mr. Allen. Care to give it a go? I'm sure I'll have _plenty_ to
criticize regarding your typically abysmal "research."

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 08:58:28 PDT 1996
Article: 69308 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!delphi.com!cam-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Impossible statistics in "Hoess" memoirs
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:47:57 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 108
Distribution: world
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References: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , Jeffrey
 wrote:

> "Eichmann expected to recieve from Hungary, according to the estimate of
> the Hungarian Police, who had carried out the arrests, about 3,000,000
> jews." 

"Acording to the estimate from the Hungarian police who had carried out
the arrests, Eichmann expected to recieve about three million Jews from
Hungary. 

"The arrests and transportation should have been completed by 1943, but
because the Hungarian government's political difficulties, the date was
always postponed.

"In particular the Hungarian army, or rather the senior officers, were
opposed to the extradition of these people and gave most of the Jewish men
a a refuge in the labor companies of the front line divisions, thus
keeping them out of the grasp of the police.

"When in the fall of 1944 an action was started in Budapest itself, only
old and sick Jewish men remained. 

"All together there were probably not more than half a million Jews
transported out of Hungary." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, p.46.) 

> "..,Eichmann expected to get about 4,000,000 jews from there." [Rumania]

"The next country on the list was Rumania. According to the reports from
his representative in Bucharest, Eichmann expected to get about four
million Jews from there.

"Negotiations with the Rumanian authorities, however, were likely to be
difficult. The anti-Semitic elements wanted the extermination of the Jews
to be carried out in their own country. There had already been serious
anti-Jewish rioting, and the Jews who were caught had been thrown into the
deep and isolated ravines of the Carpathian Mountains and killed. A
section of the government, however, was in favor of tranporting unwanted
Jews to Germany. (Ibid.) 

> "Bulgaria was to follow with an estimated two and a half million jews."

"In the meantime, Bulgaria was to follow with an estimated 2.5 million
Jews. The authorities were agreeable to transporting the Jews, but they
wanted to wait for the results of the negotiations with Rumania. (Ibid.) 

> A total of 9 and a half million jews, in Hungary, Rumania, and Bulgaria!

Lest we forget, Ho"ss also said, "The course taken by the war destroyed
these plans and saved the lives of millions of Jews. (Ibid. p.47.) 

> [From the "Commandant of Auschwitz" the 'memoirs' of Rudolf Hoess p225-6
> 
> Not even the Jewish antique dealer Gerald Reitlinger, an Holocaust hate
> propagandist 'expert' can make it that many. Nor can I expect Mr Daniel
> Keren, who surely must admit there is something wrong with these
> statistics. But will he? I doubt it.

Something wrong? Certainly. For one, Ho"ss is recounting, at best,
second-hand _estimates_. Not census statistics. At worst, Ho"ss is
repeating unsubstantiated hearsay or, perhaps, internal Nazi propaganda.
For another, the numbers are simply wrong. Using the population estimates
>from  the Wannsee Conference, for instance, one can see that the Nazis
themselves estimated the European Jewish population to be about 11
million. From this 11 million a little over one million resided in
Hungary, Rumania, and Bulgaria. (cf. Ibid. 375.) 

Given, all of this, I'm not sure what Mr. Stumpy is driving at. Historians
take such "problems" into account when they weigh personal accounts. When
Ho"ss wrote about the things _he_ saw, he was quite accurate.
Unsuprisingly, when he wrote about things he _didn't_ see, but _heard_
about from others, he is less accurate. Even wrong at times. Which,
considering that the records of the special actions were supposedly
destroyed and the summaries used to brief higher-up were closely held
secrets (also supposedly detsroyed when they served their purpose), it is
hardly incomprehensible as to why Ho"ss relates what he did. Unlike his
estimate of 1.13 milion murdered at Auschwitz (cf. Ibid. p.39.) Ho"ss is
repeating something he heard, probably from Eichmann or Eichmann's staff. 

And of course, did not Eichmann himself say: "...I've read, and Ho"ss is
supposed to have said, that he killed four million Jews. Up to now, I've
thought that figure  exaggerated. But if we're going to talk about
figures, whether it's one million or four million or a hundred amounts to
the same thing in principle. In these last fifteen years, I've done some
figuring myself. At the end of the war I spoke to my officers of five
million. I saw that figure as a kind of cloud in my mind's eye. In that
brief- hmm, how shall I put it? -apocalyptic speech, or whatever you may
choose to call it, I wasn't looking for exact figures." (Lang, _Eichmann
Interrogated_, p.109.)

Considering all this, does Mr. Stumpy mean to imply that because these
numbers are imprecise (at best) or even greatly exaggerated, that Ho"ss is
a unreliable witness? Or that his accounts regarding Auschwitz aren't
accurate? Or that the Holocaust didn't happen, that twelve million
innocent noncombatants, six million of them Jews, _weren't_ brutally
mudered by the Nazis? 

Well? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 15:14:31 PDT 1996
Article: 158562 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi147.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:45:19 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 15:14:32 PDT 1996
Article: 158565 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 21:50:07 -0800
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cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 15:18:22 PDT 1996
Article: 69422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Why I don't believe the Holocuast
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:54:43 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 19
Message-ID: 
References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:69422 alt.christnet:109248 soc.culture.german:87211

In article <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com>, Beth  wrote:

>  I was married for 7 years to a Jew,(Ira)...

[H*b*r spew snipped]

Isn't B*bby H*b*r amazing? Getting a sex-change to go to Israel and marry Ira! 

Now _that's_ LOVE!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 15:18:23 PDT 1996
Article: 69435 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:34:07 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References:  <520a0o$8d2@juliana.sprynet.com> <324467eb.13867809@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843401989snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843675198snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843760981snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843760981snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> > > 
> > > Rascher was allegedly arrested for publishing an article in a Swiss
medical
> > > journal. Check out Payne Best.
> > 
> > Al, that's not a citation. Care to try again? 
> > 
> 
> It's in his book THE VENLO INCIDENT.

Still not quite a cite, Al. Keep trying.

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 16:16:06 PDT 1996
Article: 69441 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Get your FREE copy today!
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 11:25:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 56
Message-ID: 
References: <52feqh$efp@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52fkg1$3hl@news.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52fkg1$3hl@news.enter.net>, yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) wrote:

> > mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:
> > On 25 Sep 1996 20:24:25 GMT, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu (william c 
> > anderson)
> 
> >  >So now you're netcopping for the National Alliance, Matt?
> 
> >I report simple theft of intellectual property that is in violation of US and
> >international law regarding protection of intellectual property.  

[snip]

Such a sense of civic duty the Giwer-boob has! (NOT!) One can assume then
that he has reported _himself_ to Warner Brothers, Inc., CNN, and Berke
Brreathed for violating _their_ copyrights? 

No? 

How unsuprising, condidering that:

The Giwer-boob is, as far as I can determine, a craven anti-Semitic and
racist troller whose only interest is in slandering Jews and causing
fights.  He has profusely and consistantly lied about what has been said
in exchanges (while accusing others of lying), refused to document claims,
pretended not to see posts which contain documented refutation of his
claims (even when they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel,
blatant and offensive anti-Semitism, Nazi apologia, crude sexism, and has
generally conducted himself with such a complete lack of intellectual and
factual integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to
read and respond to him.  For detailed and documented evidence of this,
please refer to


http://www.nizkor.org/encouragements/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
http://ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/email/
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/net-abuse/
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/antisemite 
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/simpering-bitch
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/fatbroad
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/g/giwer.matt/c-word
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/plagarized-01.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lie-freely-admitted.html
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/lies/thousand-dollar


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 16:16:07 PDT 1996
Article: 69444 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:37:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 34
Message-ID: 
References: <3249d80f.195009@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843761183snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843761183snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article <3249d80f.195009@news.srv.ualberta.ca>
>            jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca "John Morris" writes:
> > 
> > The book, since Mr. Baron never gives decent citations, is _The Venlo
> > Incident_ by Capt. Sigismund Payne-Best.
> > 
> > I read Payne-Best's remarks on Rascher, which are very brief, and I
> > don't recall that there was any reference to a "Swiss medical
> > journal." I could be wrong, and I can't check since I don't have it
> > out of the library at the moment. OTOH, Mr. Baron's reading skills are
> > legendary.
> 
> 
> You could be wrong and you are. Try page 186.


Oh, goodie! If one were to, ah, _assume_ Al meant _The Venlo Incident_,
page 186, why, that _would_ be a cite! 

Bravo, Al! I just _knew_ you had it in you- somewhere. 

Now, Al, what _did_ Payne-Best say on page 186 of _The Venlo Incident_? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Fri Sep 27 19:17:51 PDT 1996
Article: 69488 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:43:59 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f689.3588250@news.pacificnet.net> <3248afe3.26375621@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

[snip]

> LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by 
> THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
> page ix: "at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were 
> done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]".

Al, was the "[in Auschwitz]" part of UN War Crimes Commision's statement?
Or did you ad lib that? 

[snip]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 09:32:36 PDT 1996
Article: 69591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Dr. Hans W. Muench Testifies About Auschwitz
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:00:53 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 35
Message-ID: 
References:  <843675802snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843761658snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843761658snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article  dkeren@world.std.com "Daniel
Keren" writes:
> 
> > A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk (Alexander Baron) writes:
> > 
> > # Don't forget that in 1616 Sylvie de la Plaine testified that
> > # the Devil's semen is cold.
> > 
> > You don't say. BTW, don't forget the lunatics who make all
> > kinds of claims about "British paratroopers" being "killed
> > in their sleep (!!)" in Palestine.
> 
> Nice try Dan, the point though is that you do not really believe the
> Palestine murders or the King David Hotel did not happen; this is just an
> academic exercise for you. Not so the alleged gassings with me.

Of course it isn't, Al! _Nothing_ is academic with _you_.... Certainly not
your writing!

Besides, one could hardly overlook your dogmatism (not to mention your
anti-Semitism) in mindlessly hewing to the specious and unfounded denier claim  
that- contrary to the overwhelming and _accepted_ evidence -the Nazis
didn't carry out mass homicidal gassings....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 10:34:59 PDT 1996
Article: 158974 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!nntp.coast.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 00:54:01 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 10:35:02 PDT 1996
Article: 158976 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 01:00:48 -0800
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 16:04:58 PDT 1996
Article: 69666 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Giwer admits again that he is a troll....
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:16:08 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References: <52cljj$2bh@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52csls$cru@news.enter.net> <52eu7f$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <52h7op$jn6@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <52ivqt$ija@news.ios.com> 
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In article ,
rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) wrote:

> In article <52ivqt$ija@news.ios.com>, Greg Matson
>  wrote:
> 
> From: Greg Matson 
> Message-ID: <52ivqt$ija@news.ios.com>
> NTP-Posting-Host: ppp-20.ts-13.nyc.idt.net
> 
> >  You just proved what an asshole you are ! Smuck ! How about you you 
> > yiddish bastard, are you too afraid to debate Winston Smith on the hoax 
> > of the holocaust ?
> 
> Doesn't troll h*ber know that he is discovered ? Is he really this stupid ?

Uh... Yes. 

BTW, looks like H*b*r had _another_ sex-change operation. Poor Ira....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 16:04:59 PDT 1996
Article: 69678 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Zyklon B @ Belzec
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:21:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 77
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In article <52j7bg$9i2@lex.zippo.com>, ccarp@concept.net (Chris Carpenter)
wrote:

> Mr. Van Alstine,
> 
> Thank you for responding to my post.
> Unfortunately,  I think you may have misread it.
> Let's go through it one more time.

[snip]

> Seems pretty consistent to me too.  The whole idea behind the post was
> to point out the inconsistency of the Brothers' Edelheit book: History
> of the Holocaust: A Handbook and Dictionary.
>
> To my way of thinking any book labeled  handbook or dictionary  should
> be held to a higher  standard of editing.  

Any publication ascribing to be authoritative should indeed be held to
high standards. Of course, there the only _real_ way to enforce such
"standards" is for the _authors_ to be experts in their fields and to have
their published works reviewed by their academic peers. What are the
academic qualificatons of Mr. and Mr. Edelheit?  What other works of
theirs have been peer reviewed and published? What academic scrutiny was
their "handbook" subjected to? 

> The book in question is obviously wrong when it says that Zyklon B
> was used at Belzec.  The book was published in 1994, so the
> Edelheit's have no excuse for including this wrong information in
> their handbook and dictionary. So I stand behind my statement:
"Consistency is 
> proving to be elusive."

As to the book being "obviously wrong when it says that Zyklon B was used at 
Belzec," I agree 100 perent. As to your selecting _one_ rather obscure
"handbook," authored by two rather obscure authors, and then claiming that
"consistency" is proven to be "elusive" is simply you being disingenous. 

> As for my research skills,  they are just fine - thank you.

In that case, Mr. Carpenter, you should have quickly realized that the
claims this "handbook" made about Zyklon B being used at Belzac
contradicts the accepted  historical record and should be discounted. Yet
you apparantly did not. Worse, you blindly, it seems, jumped to the
"conclusion" that the historical record- based on this _one_ abberation
-was somewhow inconsistant. All the while you _ignored_ the fact that
there exists a plethora of mutually _consistant_ works (of which it took
me but ten minutes to look up and cite a few) that all conclude that
Zyklon B was never used at Belzac. 

That, Mr. Carpenter, is called committing the fallacy observational
selectivity. So much then for your "research" (and analytical) skills, Mr.
Carpenter. That is, of course, assuming you actually _intended_ to
research anything instead of simply confirming your own prejudices? 

> Before I respond to a post,  I try my best to understand it first. 

Then, I would suggest you try a little harder, Mr. Carpenter.

> Please call me Chris.

I think not, Mr. Carpenter.

> Again, thanks for responding with five valid citations.

My pleasure, Mr. Carpenter. 


Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 19:38:20 PDT 1996
Article: 69787 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!rainrgnews0!pacifier!trellis.wwnet.com!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 17:01:09 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> 
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

[snip]

Regarding the Giwer-boob:

> If I ever hire you and put an end to your long and frustrating
> period of unemployment, will you like me, or will I still be a
> "jew traitor"?

What? Does Dr. Keren have a toilet that needs to be cleaned? (I suppose,
the Giwer-boob _would_ be in his own element then!) However, as kind and
thoughtful a gesture as hiring (the obviously under-qualified and mentally
impaired) Giwer-boob for such a job is, and as grateful as the Giwer-boob
_should_ be at such an opportunity of gainful employment (probably the
_only_ one in the last ten or fifteen years), I somehow doubt that he
_would_ be grateful. 

Of course, I also somehow doubt that the Giwer-boob would be sober enough
to his shoes.... 

posted/e-mailed

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sat Sep 28 21:06:11 PDT 1996
Article: 69815 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Photograph: Rascher's Letter Concerning the Dachau Gas Chamber
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:46:01 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 36
Message-ID: 
References: <3249d80f.195009@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843761183snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843916897snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <843916897snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> 
> > > You could be wrong and you are. Try page 186.
> > 
> > 
> > Oh, goodie! If one were to, ah, _assume_ Al meant _The Venlo Incident_,
> > page 186, why, that _would_ be a cite! 
> > 
> > Bravo, Al! I just _knew_ you had it in you- somewhere. 
> > 
> > Now, Al, what _did_ Payne-Best say on page 186 of _The Venlo Incident_? 
> 
> Look it up yourself then apologise for accusing me of lying about the
> reference to a Swiss medical journal.

Please, Al, be so kind as to point me to the post where I accused you of
lying about the "reference to a Swiss medical journal." As I (and
DejaNews) recall, I asked you to provide the _cite_ for your claim.

Not, of course, that you _aren't_ a liar. And an anti-Semite. And a
misanthropic old fart. You are. 

See: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/b/baron.al

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Sun Sep 29 11:36:24 PDT 1996
Article: 159034 of control
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 13:14:26 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
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From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 11:57:56 PDT 1996
Article: 70238 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Best of Billy Anderson
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:33:58 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 16
Message-ID: 
References: <322eef53.5469925@news.pacificnet.net> <324fd5f0.430612@199.0.216.204>
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <324fd5f0.430612@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:

> Has anybody researched the historical relationship between Moranian
> and Giwerundian?

I dunno. Let's call Roto-Rooter and find out!

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 14:23:04 PDT 1996
Article: 70299 of alt.revisionism
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From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: test
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 08:22:37 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 26
Message-ID: 
References: <3244184f.2224846@news.pacificnet.net> <324dcf20.45861001@199.0.216.204>  <324fd9a9.1383341@199.0.216.204>
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In article <324fd9a9.1383341@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

> Marty Kelley  wrote:
> 
> >On Sun, 29 Sep 1996, tom moran wrote:
> >
> >>      test
> >
> >I have to say that this is perhaps the most coherent thing Mr. Moran (the
> >antisemitic one) has posted in some time.
> 
>         Now this is a very good example to show to your class so they
> will know what kind of responding techniques you have. 

Truth hurts, eh, Moran? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 15:47:18 PDT 1996
Article: 70330 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!iag.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:43:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 62
Message-ID: 
References:  <52na0j$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52na0j$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:

> >   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >  mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> >  
> >  # Perhaps, to clean up this issue, Herr Schwarzesel would be
> >  # so kind as to supply the excerpt from the _Belsen Trial_ that
> >  # states the British "brought potable [sic] generators with them?"
> >  
> >  "To restore the water supply we utilized the fire pumps and
> >  hose which we found inside the camp to pump water from a river
> >  to the camp itself".
> >  
> >  [...]
> >  
> >  "Did you find any reason why water should not have been provided
> >  in that camp?"
> >  
> >  "I can think of none".
> >  
> >  Quoted from the testimony of Major Berney, "The Belsen Trial",
> >  p. 54.
> >  
> >  
> >  -Danny Keren.
> >  
> >  
> >>>>
> Already posted the fact that Kramer thought the river was polluted.  

"Kramer thought," Herr Schwarzesel? How...unimpressive. In other words,
Herr Schwarzesel, Kramer gave an _excuse_ to rationalize his actions for
the intentional privation and subsequent deaths of prisoners under his
authority. 

And a lame excuse at that. "Kramer thought!" Your slipping (badly), Herr
Schwarzesel....

> makes a good point when he adds that the British had to have provided some 
> specialfiltering apparatus for the water to have been made drinkable.

The Giwer-boob hasn't made a _point_ regarding _anything_ but how much of
an asshole he really is. Interesting that you would use him to rationalize
your scumbag Nazi apologia, Herr Schwarzesel: That because "Kramer
thought" (!) that the river was polluted, and because of this the
Giwer-boob claimed that the British _had_ "to have provided some
specialfiltering [sic] apparatus," that that was what actually _did_
happen? 

Once more, Herr Schwarzesel, in the course of your scumbag Nazi apologia,
I see that you again are blowing smoke-rings out your ass to distract from
the paucity of your evidence....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 15:47:19 PDT 1996
Article: 70346 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:21:50 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 135
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f689.3588250@news.pacificnet.net> <3248afe3.26375621@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843917095snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843982322snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <843982322snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> 
> > In article <843917095snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>,
A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > 
> > > In article 
> > >            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> > > 
> > > > In article <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>,
> > A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > 
> > Too bad you didn't post that part of the document to show the context, eh,
> > Al? Pity. Instead, you ask us to take _your_ word on it? 
> 
> I don't ask you to take my word on it, go and look it up then do what you
> always do when I prove a point, change the subject and accuse me of lying 
> about something else.
> 
> > 
> > Suuuure, Al.... 
> > 
> > > Although it's brief this is quite an interesting report....
> > 
> > Shouldn't be too hard then to post the relevant parts to show the context
> > to support your claims that the commision was talking strictly about
> > Auschwitz, right? 
> > 
> > > ...for example it contains the outright lie that prisoners were given no 
> > > medical attention whatsoever.
> > 
> > Actually, Al, for all practical purposes, the prisoners _weren't_ given
> > medical attention. 
> 
> That's why there were so many fucking doctors in Auschwitz, several of them
> have written accounts of the camp. 

Indeed. Like the prisoner doctor Miklos Nyiszli. Who gave a pretty damning
account of Nazi brutality, cruelty, and genocide. Or like Nazi doctor
Heinz Thilo, who called Auschwitz the "anus mundi" -the anus of the world.
Or Nazi doctor Johann Kremer, who described "the most horrible of all
horrors" -the gassing of emanciated women.

According to Robert J. Lifton, author of _The Nazi Doctors_: 

"The SS doctor [at Auschwitz] did no direct medical work. His primary
function was to carry out Auschwitz's institutional program of medicalized
genocide. COnsider the SS doctor's activities in Auschwitz. He performed
initial large-scale selections of arricing Jewish prisoners at the
Birkenau camp....These selections were usually conducted according to
formula: old and debilitated people, children, and women with children all
selected for the gas chamber; while relatively intact young adults were
permitted to survive, at least temporarly. 

"After the selection,m the presiding doctor was driven in an SS vehicle,
usually marked with a red cross, together with a medical technician (one
of a special group of 'disinfectors,' or _Desinfektoren_, from whithin the
_Sanita"tsdienstgrade_ or SDG) and the gas pellets, to a gas chamber
adjoining one of the crematoria. As _Fu"hrer_, or 'leader,' of the team,
the doctor had supervisory responsibility for the correct carrying out of
the killing process, though the medical technician actually inserted the
gas pellets, and the entire sequence became so routine that little
intervention was required. The doctor also had the task of declaring those
inside the gas chamber dead and sometimes looked through a peephole to
observe them. This, too, became routine, a matter of permitting twenty
minutes or so to pass before the doors of the gas chambers could be opened
and the bodies removed. 

"SS doctors also carried out two additional forms of selections...In one,
Jewish inmates were lined up on very short notice at various places in the
camp and their ranks thinned in order to allow room for presumably
healthier replacements from new transports. The other type of selections
took place in the medical blocks in a caricature of triage. Rather than
simply permitting those closest to death to die -in order to use limited
medical resourses to treat those who might be saved -as in traditional
medical triage (the meaning given the term as origionally used by the
French military), Nazis combined triage with murder by sending to the gas
chamber those judged to be significantly ill or debilitated, or those who
required more than two or three weeks for recovery.

"Medical triage-murder became a standard SS policy, influenced both by the
vision of the FInal Solution and by I.G. Farben's economic arrangements.
But an additional factor also of great importance was the residual
influence of the 14f13 'euthanasia' action in the camps. IN other words,
the principle of killing the weak, the sick, and the generally
undesireable had been esyablished in medical circles, extended
specifically to concentration camps, and then institutionalized (still
within medical circles) in Auschwitz, and Auschwitz alone, on a phenomenal
scale. That 14f13 influence involved both the mentality and the legality
of a medical form of triage-murder, so much so that the Frankfurt court
could view medical-triage killings as probably derived from 14f13
policies. In other words, the Nazi versions of 'euthanasia' and the FInal
Solution converged on Auschwitz medical blocks, thereby rendering them an
important agency of the Auschwitz ecology of murder. (_Nazi Doctors_,
pp.147-148.)

> Auschwitz was a prison, prisoners are always lowest down the scale, there was 
> a war on, there was rationing and hardship for ordinary people and this was 
> over fifty years ago. When you take all that into consideration, terrible 
> though the conditions were, the SS acted as humanely as any bureaucratic 
> monstrosity could. 

Considering Lifton (above), Al, your specious claims are just more of your
typical Nazi apologia bullshit. You know, like when you claimed no Jews
died during Kristallnacht? 

> Please don't keep telling me what a nasty bunch the Nazis were because I too 
> have suffered at the hands of the state and I've seen countless other people, 
> here, the US and elsewhere suffering and persecuted by the same token. 

Poor, poor, widdle Baron...  

Were you beaten half to death, Al? Were you starved? Were you worked like
a dog until you dropped and then were flogged for it? 

Were you gassed to death, Al? Were you shot? Where you given a phenol
injection in the heart because you were sick? 

No? Then fuck off, Al. Don't insult the dead by even _remotely_ comparing
your self-inflicted brushes with the Law to Nazi brutality and genocide,
you egotistical simpering twit. 

[Baron's specious tub-thumping ranting snipped]

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 17:05:16 PDT 1996
Article: 70366 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newshub.csu.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bill Harmon's Question
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 09:50:34 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 42
Message-ID: 
References: <52duo7$lcm@news.enter.net> <52na4l$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article <52na4l$gdu@juliana.sprynet.com>, rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
> >   yawen@enter.net (Yale F. Edeiken) writes:

[snip]

> >  That is nonsense.  People drank it.  They did not suffer.  Ergo it was 
> >  potable.  The British supplies the water by turning on the pumps.  Since 
> >  the "pollution" is a figment of your imagination it was a relatively easy 
> >  process.
> >  
> 
> This is avoiding the issue.  

Indeed you are, Herr Schwarzesel.

> The rivers of Europe are and have been highly polluted for decades now.  

And WWII has been over for decades as well, Herr Schwarzesel. Perhaps you
could offer hard evidence that the river in question was actually polluted
(and at what level) at the time the British liberated the Bergen-Belsen? 

> If the British did not make the water potable, perhaps many prisoners
> died as a result of drinking this water. 

More scumbag Nazi apologia, eh, Herr Schwarzesel? Blame the British, based
on a figment of your (twisted) imagination, for the inhumanity of the
Nazis. Just can't pass up the chance, can you Herr Schwarzesel?

> Please provide the proof that the British did not use filtering equipment.

And you proof that the British _did_ use filtering equipement is, Herr
Schwarzesel? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 18:09:54 PDT 1996
Article: 70385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: the four pieces of physical evidence
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:04:18 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 33
Message-ID: 
References: <52es0g$d1n@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  <52hctm$cov@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

[snip]

Regarding the Giwer-boob:

> If I ever hire you and put an end to your long and frustrating
> period of unemployment, will you like me, or will I still be a
> "jew traitor"?

What? Does Dr. Keren have a toilet that needs to be cleaned? (I suppose,
the Giwer-boob _would_ be in his own element then!) However, as kind and
thoughtful a gesture as hiring (the obviously under-qualified and mentally
impaired) Giwer-boob for such a job is, and as grateful as the Giwer-boob
_should_ be at such an opportunity of gainful employment (probably the
_only_ one in the last ten or fifteen years), I somehow doubt that he
_would_ be grateful. 

Of course, I also somehow doubt that the Giwer-boob would be sober enough
to tie his shoes.... 

posted/e-mailed

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Sep 30 19:11:42 PDT 1996
Article: 159406 of control
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: cmsg cancel 
Control: cancel 
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 11:04:13 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 1
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi146.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

cancel 


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 01:39:09 PDT 1996
Article: 70475 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!arclight.uoregon.edu!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.christnet,alt.fan.enst-zundel,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Why I don't believe the Holocuast
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:29:51 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 18
Message-ID: 
References: <52g9vv$o76@news.ios.com> <52gld0$d0v@netnews.upenn.edu> <52mqkc$vfc@sol.caps.maine.edu> <52o7eo$9i9@news.ios.com> <52pq6j$r40@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:70475 alt.christnet:110316 soc.culture.german:87477

In article <52pq6j$r40@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@curly.cc.emory.edu
(william c anderson) wrote:

[snip]

> You can drop the fake userid now, Huber.

Does that mean yet _another_ sex-change operation for Beth/H*b*r? 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 01:39:10 PDT 1996
Article: 70482 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi146.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4,000,000 less 3,000,000 still leaves 6,000,000
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1996 12:33:35 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 49
Message-ID: 
References: <3247f689.3588250@news.pacificnet.net> <3248afe3.26375621@news.srv.ualberta.ca> <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <843917095snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
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In article <843917095snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>, A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:

> In article 
>            mvanalst@rbi.com "Mark Van Alstine" writes:
> 
> > In article <843690420snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>,
A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > 
> > [snip]
> > 
> > > LAW REPORTS OF TRIALS OF WAR CRIMINALS Selected and prepared by 
> > > THE UNITED NATIONS WAR CRIMES COMMISSION VOLUME II
> > > page ix: "at least 2,500,000 human beings (or as some say 4,000,000) were 
> > > done to death by being poisoned in gas chambers [in Auschwitz]".
> > 
> > Al, was the "[in Auschwitz]" part of UN War Crimes Commision's statement?
> > Or did you ad lib that? 
> 
> That is my quote but if you read the original document it clearly refers to
> Auschwitz (meaning Auschwitz-Birkenau of course).

Too bad you didn't post that part of the document to show the context, eh,
Al? Pity. Instead, you ask us to take _your_ word on it? 

Suuuure, Al.... 

> Although it's brief this is quite an interesting report....

Shouldn't be too hard then to post the relevant parts to show the context
to support your claims that the commision was talking strictly about
Auschwitz, right? 

> ...for example it contains the outright lie that prisoners were given no 
> medical attention whatsoever.

Actually, Al, for all practical purposes, the prisoners _weren't_ given
medical attention. I'm not counting, of course, homicidal phenol
injections to the heart as "medical attention." There was _plenty_ of that
kind of "attention" at Auschwitz....

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From mvanalst@rbi.com Tue Oct  1 01:39:11 PDT 1996
Article: 70494 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hunter.premier.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi144.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where Giwer comes from
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 18:47:48 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 25
Message-ID: 
References: <324E885C.68B4@rio.com> <52ooc3$lvm@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi144.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5

In article , karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles
R.L. Power) wrote:

> mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt  Giwer) writes:

[snip -Like anybody _cares_ what the Giwer-boob writes...]
 
> Geez, Matt, I didn't think you could get more pathetic. Insulting war
> veterans. I guess their existence somehow offends you. I wonder why.

Naaaah, the Giwer-boob is offended by _everybody_ with a shred of decency.
First because he has no decency whatsoever, and second because he's a
Nazi-idolizing untermensch. 

And insane, of course. That goes without saying. 

Mark

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes 
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts." 

-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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