The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/t/thompson.linda/1996/usenet.0896



Article 30796 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: dcinege@superlink.net (Dave Cinege)
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Date: Sun, 11 Aug 96 15:33:10 GMT
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Subject: Re: Psychopath #4
Lines: 29


In <839743482$28509@atype.com>, mmedi13720@aol.com (MMedi13720) writes:
>
>In article <839606622$17637@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
>
>>I think it's becoming clear that the appropriately named Stephen King is
>on
>>his way to becoming a member of the pantheon.
>>
>On his way??? He's a fucking loon, in the finest tradition of Chappie, or
>Linda Thompson, or J. Edgar Hoover.
>
>Seconded, BTW.
>

Hey Mike!! You never answered my question....What's your mama look like?

Me and Chapman have used your 17 year old cousin like a receptacle so
much she's all ragged out. We need some fresh meat.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege  (aka Psychopath #3)  ---  Super Genius at Large
http://www.psychosis.com/            Happiness is a full bag of 34-0-0.....

Harry Browne for President in '96       Libertarian Party 1-800-682-1776
http://www.rahul.net/browne/           http://www.lp.org/



Article 30936 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: Joseph Pothier 
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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 96 4:03:25 GMT
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Subject: Re: Waco, Texas, et al: Too early...
Lines: 42


Eric Engelmann  wrote:
>
>RARPOL wrote:
>> Well, the only thing I can say it that, if you have no proof to offer then
>> there is no proof. As for my own research, it indicates that while the
>> original ATF was an historic CF, the Davidians died largely by their own
>> hands due to the tape recordings made from inside the complex.  This seems
>> to refute clearly any suggestions that the FBI torched anybody.  My
>> request for information has gone unanswered in this newsgroup twice now.
>> To me, this indicates that many would rather spread propaganda for
>> political and ideological purposes instead of presenting facts.
>
>Did you actually HEAR the tape? Wishful thinking may lead BATF to believe
>that an individual BD's voice is giving instructions to torch their
>church and burn their babies, but I doubt ANY honest person could listen
>to the tape and conclude anything, except perhaps that the FBI is wasting 
>money on surveillance gear. It's completely indecipherable.

I take it you have heard the tape? If not, where are you getting 
your information?


>
>Don't believe what NBC/CBS/etc. and the Washington Post tell you about
>government misconduct of this magnitude.

Absurd statement. CNN had live coverage. The other networks have 
had special after special on it. I take it that you object that 
they did not blame the government for murder.


>Look at the photos and THINK
>about it. I did, and concluded this is the single greatest atrocity 
>ever committed by the Feds, and the biggest failure of the press to 
>call them on it.


I take it you have the complete Linda Thompson collection.





Article 31133 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:41:13 GMT
Message-ID: <839950873$12760@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Waco, Texas, et al: Too early...
Lines: 58


In article <839818983$3755@atype.com>, Eric Engelmann 
writes:

>RARPOL wrote:
>> Well, the only thing I can say it that, if you have no proof to offer
then
>> there is no proof. As for my own research, it indicates that while the
>> original ATF was an historic CF, the Davidians died largely by their
own
>> hands due to the tape recordings made from inside the complex.  This
seems
>> to refute clearly any suggestions that the FBI torched anybody.  My
>> request for information has gone unanswered in this newsgroup twice
now.
>> To me, this indicates that many would rather spread propaganda for
>> political and ideological purposes instead of presenting facts.
>
>Did you actually HEAR the tape? Wishful thinking may lead BATF to believe
>that an individual BD's voice is giving instructions to torch their
>church and burn their babies, but I doubt ANY honest person could listen
>to the tape and conclude anything, except perhaps that the FBI is wasting

>money on surveillance gear. It's completely indecipherable.

Yes I did and sounded like they talking about spreading something around
the place, what on earth could that have been.  Actually, I first became
suspicious of such claims when I saw Linda Thompson's piece of work "Waco:
Day 51" or whatever the hell it was called.  I saw some rather creative
editing on her part after she said the media had done the same.  The
classic example was showing what she reported was fire coming out of a
tank.  However, when the  tape is fully run you clearly see that it is not
fire but a piece of the building reflecting the sun's rays. The audio
tapes I heard were fairly clear.  Besides, other than opinion and wide
speculation little proof has been provided that the FBI set the fires.
>
>Don't believe what NBC/CBS/etc. and the Washington Post tell you about
>government misconduct of this magnitude. Look at the photos and THINK
>about it. I did, and concluded this is the single greatest atrocity 
>ever committed by the Feds, and the biggest failure of the press to 
>call them on it.

Why should I believe the propaganda mills of the patriot movement when
most of their reports are wrong, exaggerated or even disputed by other
patriot groups and leaders..  I have heard one patriot (William Cooper)
call another (Mark Koernke) a big liar for spreading unsubstantiated
rumors.  If the government did commit an atrocity as you describe in Waco,
then why the hell would they conduct it the middle of the day with live
television cameras running?  I mean if the Feds were so evil they would
have done it under cover of darkness, don't you think.


Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 31145 of misc.activism.militia:
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:44:59 GMT
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Subject: Re: Waco, Texas, et al: Too early...
Lines: 90


Joseph Pothier  wrote:
>
>Eric Engelmann  wrote:
>>
>>RARPOL wrote:
>>> Well, the only thing I can say it that, if you have no proof to offer then
>>> there is no proof. As for my own research, it indicates that while the
>>> original ATF was an historic CF, the Davidians died largely by their own
>>> hands due to the tape recordings made from inside the complex.  This seems
>>> to refute clearly any suggestions that the FBI torched anybody.  My
>>> request for information has gone unanswered in this newsgroup twice now.
>>> To me, this indicates that many would rather spread propaganda for
>>> political and ideological purposes instead of presenting facts.
>>
>>Did you actually HEAR the tape? Wishful thinking may lead BATF to believe
>>that an individual BD's voice is giving instructions to torch their
>>church and burn their babies, but I doubt ANY honest person could listen
>>to the tape and conclude anything, except perhaps that the FBI is wasting 
>>money on surveillance gear. It's completely indecipherable.
>
>I take it you have heard the tape? If not, where are you getting 
>your information?
>
>
>>
>>Don't believe what NBC/CBS/etc. and the Washington Post tell you about
>>government misconduct of this magnitude.
>
>Absurd statement. CNN had live coverage. The other networks have 
>had special after special on it. I take it that you object that 
>they did not blame the government for murder.
>
>
>>Look at the photos and THINK
>>about it. I did, and concluded this is the single greatest atrocity 
>>ever committed by the Feds, and the biggest failure of the press to 
>>call them on it.
>
>
>I take it you have the complete Linda Thompson collection.
>
>
>

There is more evidence than just the tapes.  At the Senate hearings on 
Waco, an independent arson expert testified that one of the surviving 
BDs--in fact the one that testified at those hearings, Clive Doyle--came 
walking out of the flaming buildings with his HANDS on fire.  Chemical 
testing of teh sleeves of his coat (the one he was wearing at the time) 
showed that they were soaked in charcoal fire starter.  

On another aspect: an article in the New York Times Sunday Magazine of 
July 9, 1995, has an interview with Doyle and another BD, Sheila Martin, 
who lost her husband and four children in the fire.  

To quote: The Branch Davidians insist that they don't hate the 
Government for what happened at Mount Carmel.  "No, no, no," Martin 
insists, shaking her head vigorously, "David always told us to love those 
men that were pointing the guns at us.  Because it was not their fault 
that God was telling them what to do.  We have no hatred, because these 
things are . . . all part of the Bible and the prophecy books.  So how 
can we hate someone whom we believe God has put in that particular spot 
in history?"  . . . It was all preordained in the Book of Revelation.

On Koresh's habits, the article says:  They also freely admit that some 
of what many people considered the most damning revelations about Koresh 
were true.  But they say that outsiders, including the news media, failed 
to grasp just why he acted the way he did. . . . God. . . seems to have 
commanded Koresh to have sexual intercourse with numberous women at Mount 
Carmel, including one "bride" of 14.  He father at least 12 children 
along the way, by Doyle and Martin's count, 8 of whom perished in the 
fire.
    "I don't think it started out as a sleeping-with-a whole-lot-of- 
people type of situation,  Martin says.  "To me, it was a situation like 
many of the prophets in the Bible.  They were all asked to do something 
which they would not have done.  David went against all kinds of feelings 
he had, but as a prophet, he obeyed God's voice."

On the militia: Doyle says: "I have not spoken at any militia rally.  I 
have not attended their meetings. I do not believe in  going and trying 
to whip up the frenzy in the crowd in any way."

[But never fear, it will all go away soon.  The surviving BDs still at 
Waco--19 of them--know that Koresh and those who died in the fire are 
coming back any day now.]  "We're looking forward to this time where the 
world is going to see him as he really was to us.  This time people are 
going to hear the message that they did not get to hear in those 51 
days." says Sheila Martin.  Doyle nods. 



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From: ndmartin@startext.net (dale martin)
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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:45:18 GMT
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Subject: Re: Waco, Texas, et al: Too early...
Lines: 82


Joseph, you sound to me as if your Daddy works for the FED.  
Try to keep an open mind and just consider some key points.


A couple of questions come to my mind....

1.  How come the "live" networks couldn't get within 3 mi. from the
    Branch Davidian's church?

2.  Why was the critical evidence destroyed?.. It appeared to me that
    the evidence at the site of the crime was purposely destroyed.
    (The metal front door was conveniently never found.


I don't see how ANYONE can not see that that large of a number of 
military, tanke, etc,, was clearly an over-kill.... just to serve one 
man a supoena.  And the very fact that there was a lack of outrage from 
the press just confirms my suspicians about them.

Not really wanting to get on a tirade, but Joseph, try to look at the 
evidence with an open mind without any bias.

NDM



	
In article <839822605$3993@atype.com>, JOSPOTH@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>
>Eric Engelmann  wrote:
>>
>>RARPOL wrote:
>>> Well, the only thing I can say it that, if you have no proof to 
offer then
>>> there is no proof. As for my own research, it indicates that while 
the
>>> original ATF was an historic CF, the Davidians died largely by 
their own
>>> hands due to the tape recordings made from inside the complex.  
This seems
>>> to refute clearly any suggestions that the FBI torched anybody.  My
>>> request for information has gone unanswered in this newsgroup twice 
now.
>>> To me, this indicates that many would rather spread propaganda for
>>> political and ideological purposes instead of presenting facts.
>>
>>Did you actually HEAR the tape? Wishful thinking may lead BATF to 
believe
>>that an individual BD's voice is giving instructions to torch their
>>church and burn their babies, but I doubt ANY honest person could 
listen
>>to the tape and conclude anything, except perhaps that the FBI is 
wasting 
>>money on surveillance gear. It's completely indecipherable.
>
>I take it you have heard the tape? If not, where are you getting 
>your information?
>
>
>>
>>Don't believe what NBC/CBS/etc. and the Washington Post tell you 
about
>>government misconduct of this magnitude.
>
>Absurd statement. CNN had live coverage. The other networks have 
>had special after special on it. I take it that you object that 
>they did not blame the government for murder.
>
>
>>Look at the photos and THINK
>>about it. I did, and concluded this is the single greatest atrocity 
>>ever committed by the Feds, and the biggest failure of the press to 
>>call them on it.
>
>
>I take it you have the complete Linda Thompson collection.
>
>
>



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Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 15:53:01 GMT
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Subject: Re: The Extermination of America - 1996
Lines: 16


MMedi13720 (mmedi13720@aol.com) wrote:
: feustel@netcom.com (Dave Feustel) writes:
: >I have heard that Linda Thompson and some other take the Red/Blue
: >lists rumors extremely seriously and they have gone underground.
 
: Well, that's Linda Thompson. She's a gullible idiot. When the rational
: people start going to ground, then you might have something to worry
: about.

More to the point, Thompson has no unit to go underground WITH. No one 
follows her. Hopefully she'll dig her way to China and then THEY can deal 
with her. About time for another Tienanmen Square anyways, innit?


---LCD


Article 31406 of misc.activism.militia:
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 13:03:11 GMT
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Subject: Preamble to Bill of Rights???
Lines: 80


Can anyone confirm/rebut the claim below that the Bill of Rights
originally included the preamble reproduced below?
=================================================================
Preamble to Bill of Rights

The Preamble to the Bill of Rights

[This is a note to me from Dr. Linda Thompson of the American Justice
Federation that I am passing along to everyone...email me with your
comments ken] [to ken] You left off the MOST IMPORTANT PART of the Bill
of Rights -- the PREAMBLE which tells SPECIFICALLY that the Bill of
Rights was to make sure the government knew it was limited to the
powers stated in the Constitution and if it didn't, the amendments were
rights of the people the government couldn't screw with.

Our revisionist historians ALWAYS leave this off the Constitution!!!



Here's a copy!!!

===============================================================

Effective December 15, 1791


Articles in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the

United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the

Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of

the original Constitution.

                         PREAMBLE


The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of

their adopting the Constitution of the Constitution, expressed a

desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers,

that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:

And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government,

will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution.

===============================================================

The first ten amendments are "declaratory and restrictive
clauses".  This means they supersede all other parts of our
Constitution and restrict the powers of our Constitution.

   There are people in this country that do not want you to know
that these two sentences ever existed.  For many years these words
were "omitted" from copies of our Constitution.  Public and private
colleges alike have based their whole interpretation of our
Constitution on the fraudulent version of this text. Those corrupt
individuals have claimed that the amendments can be changed by the
will of the people.  By this line of reasoning the amendments are
open to interpretation.  This is a clever deception.  The Bill of
Rights is separate from the other amendments.  The Bill of Rights is
a declaration of restrictions to the powers of our Constitution. The
Bill of Rights restricts the Constitution.  The Constitution
restricts the powers of government.  The deception is that the
government can interpret the all of the amendments and the
Constitution itself.  Without the presence of the Preamble to the
Bill of Rights this may be a valid argument.

End the deception.

http://www.harbornet.com/rights/lindat.html
-- 
Dave Feustel		http://feustel.mixi.net
219-483-1857		mailto:feustel@netcom.com

My Website Server is up at http://feustel.mixi.net


Article 31432 of misc.activism.militia:
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Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 4:48:18 GMT
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Subject: Re: The astonishing CLINTON C
Lines: 42


In article <839798284$2324@atype.com>, hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
writes:

>  So..
>
>When's the transcript of _New Clintons Chronciles_ coming out
>on the net?
> 
> The sequel apparently chronicles Houstongate, the accusations 
>of Clintons former family doctor in Arkansas, Sam Houston, who 
>claims Clinton did alot of coke and even OD'ed once, resulting
>in  an emergency room visit. He also claims he wrote all about 
>Clintons overdose and decaying nasal passages in Clintons 
>medical records.
>
>   Larry Nichols is clearly the most dangerous man to Bill Clinton.
>This information MUST be spread throughout the net BEFORE the 
>election.The video's been out for months, and it seems no one
>has even heard about it.
>
>---
> ŝ KWQ/2 1.2i NR ŝ Originality is the art of concealing your sources.
>
>
>
>

Gee, from what I have read in the Clinton Chronicles there is little
documentation and whole lot of hearsay. In fact, the 2nd books claims
documented proof of Bill Clinton taking drugs.  When I read those
documents not a word was mentioned about that, hmm, can you say hype. BTW
these tapes and books have out for years, courtesy of the professional
Clinton hating cottoge industry who produce material with the same quality
as Linda Thompson.

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


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Subject: Re: The astonishing CLINTON C
Lines: 63


--->waf don't get on standing Presidents, much. I don't dislike Clinton 
as much as I do Bush. I don't care if he inhaled, exhaled, or sucked. I 
don't much care if he boffed every bimbo in all 50 states, and that'd be 
a tall order. I don't care for the Russia thing in time of war, but 
others did the same or worse.

But I don't much care for yuppies. or liars. He and the First lady are a 
bunch of both. I don't mean "little mistakes that greenhorns make in the 
first break-in period, either.)

I even sort like the guy, in an odd sort of way.

I'd just like him better back in Arkansas.

[waf][IDAHO]
************************************8

rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) wrote:
>
>In article <839798284$2324@atype.com>, hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
>writes:
>
>>  So..
>>
>>When's the transcript of _New Clintons Chronciles_ coming out
>>on the net?
>> 
>> The sequel apparently chronicles Houstongate, the accusations 
>>of Clintons former family doctor in Arkansas, Sam Houston, who 
>>claims Clinton did alot of coke and even OD'ed once, resulting
>>in  an emergency room visit. He also claims he wrote all about 
>>Clintons overdose and decaying nasal passages in Clintons 
>>medical records.
>>
>>   Larry Nichols is clearly the most dangerous man to Bill Clinton.
>>This information MUST be spread throughout the net BEFORE the 
>>election.The video's been out for months, and it seems no one
>>has even heard about it.
>>
>>---
>> ŝ KWQ/2 1.2i NR ŝ Originality is the art of concealing your sources.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Gee, from what I have read in the Clinton Chronicles there is little
>documentation and whole lot of hearsay. In fact, the 2nd books claims
>documented proof of Bill Clinton taking drugs.  When I read those
>documents not a word was mentioned about that, hmm, can you say hype. BTW
>these tapes and books have out for years, courtesy of the professional
>Clinton hating cottoge industry who produce material with the same quality
>as Linda Thompson.
>
>Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)
>
>No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
>questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
>otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
>this post. 




Article 31680 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (88562a2799145beeb6a32a51cb7b0df9)
References: <840027791$20141@atype.com>
From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 14 Aug 1996 18:54:38 -0400
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.emf.net!overload.lbl.gov!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 96 23:03:42 GMT
Message-ID: <840063822$26285@atype.com>
Subject: Re: Preamble to Bill of Rights???
Lines: 96


In article <840027791$20141@atype.com>, feustel@netcom.com (Dave Feustel)
writes:

>Can anyone confirm/rebut the claim below that the Bill of Rights
>originally included the preamble reproduced below?
>==============================================================

This probably from the title of the joint resolution containing the bill
of rights or it might express legislative intent, either way it is not
part of the constitution. A title is a brief description of the bill or
resolution and never appears in the law itself.  Also, I might add, that
no history book has listed a preamble for the bill of rights.  And I have
looked at books 170 years old.while researching another patriot myth.


>Preamble to Bill of Rights
>
>The Preamble to the Bill of Rights
>
>[This is a note to me from Dr. Linda Thompson of the American Justice
>Federation that I am passing along to everyone...email me with your
>comments ken] [to ken] You left off the MOST IMPORTANT PART of the Bill
>of Rights -- the PREAMBLE which tells SPECIFICALLY that the Bill of
>Rights was to make sure the government knew it was limited to the
>powers stated in the Constitution and if it didn't, the amendments were
>rights of the people the government couldn't screw with.
>
>Our revisionist historians ALWAYS leave this off the Constitution!!!
>
>
>
>Here's a copy!!!
>
>===============================================================
>
>Effective December 15, 1791
>
>
>Articles in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the
>
>United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the
>
>Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of
>
>the original Constitution.
>
>                         PREAMBLE
>
>
>The conventions of a number of the States having at the time of
>
>their adopting the Constitution of the Constitution, expressed a
>
>desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers,
>
>that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added:
>
>And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government,
>
>will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution.
>
>===============================================================
>
>The first ten amendments are "declaratory and restrictive
>clauses".  This means they supersede all other parts of our
>Constitution and restrict the powers of our Constitution.
>
>   There are people in this country that do not want you to know
>that these two sentences ever existed.  For many years these words
>were "omitted" from copies of our Constitution.  Public and private
>colleges alike have based their whole interpretation of our
>Constitution on the fraudulent version of this text. Those corrupt
>individuals have claimed that the amendments can be changed by the
>will of the people.  By this line of reasoning the amendments are
>open to interpretation.  This is a clever deception.  The Bill of
>Rights is separate from the other amendments.  The Bill of Rights is
>a declaration of restrictions to the powers of our Constitution. The
>Bill of Rights restricts the Constitution.  The Constitution
>restricts the powers of government.  The deception is that the
>government can interpret the all of the amendments and the
>Constitution itself.  Without the presence of the Preamble to the
>Bill of Rights this may be a valid argument.
>
>End the deception.
>
>http://www.harbornet.com/rights/lindat.html



Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 31706 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (e9e381da78bf0d2a12a414d40155abd9)
From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Return-Path: news@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!uhog.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 14:33:03 GMT
Message-ID: <840119583$2644@atype.com>
Subject: Songs of the Militia Movement
Lines: 30



When I find myself in times of trouble
Linda Thompson comes to me
Speaking words of wacky, let it be.
And in my hour of darkness
Her paranoia flows through me
Speaking words of wacky, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
Whisper words of wacky, let it be.

And when the right-wing wackos
Living in the world agree,
They'll buy some more explosives, let it be.
For though they may be crazy there is
Still the thought of OKC.
There will be another, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. Yeah
There will be another, let it be.

And when my logic's cloudy,
There is still a voice that speaks to me,
I think it comes from in my head, let it be.
I wake up to the sound of gunfire
Linda Thompson comes to me
Speaking words of wacky, let it be.
Let it be, let it be.
There will be an another, let it be.
Let it be, let it be,
Whisper words of wacky, let it be.


Article 31766 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (65f89024609854ef8c2392590d38d94e)
References: <839714630$25041@atype.com> <839847788$6502@atype.com>
From: horseman@indirect.com (Scott Alan Malcomson)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Organization: none
Return-Path: news@globe.indirect.com
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!nntp04.primenet.com!news.shkoo.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.nap.net!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 11:03:11 GMT
Message-ID: <840106991$1231@atype.com>
Subject: Re: What is the Militia?
Lines: 64


PGISSource (pgissource@aol.com) wrote:
: In article <839714630$25041@atype.com>, rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) writes:
: >You see my concerns is that well meaning militia guys will snookered in
: >by these charlatans and their panaceas. 

: A bit more blunt than most of my statements, but I concur ... only
: pointing out that it happens on -both- sides.

I THOROUGHLY agree with both statements. The Militia movement is a 
reaction to a problem that is not being tended to --- the abuse of police 
and other powers on the part of the Federal government. It is, 
unfortunately, beset by people like Mark Koernke and Linda Thompson, who 
peddle conspiracy theories to people hungry for *some* sort of 
explanation and who are ignored or condescended to by authorities.
	The anti-Militia movement is in turn a reaction to the Militia 
movement, and is mainly peopled by citizens fearful of arms in the hands of 
people who not only are not controlled by government but who actively 
distrust/hate it. For its part, it is beset by agencies like the 
(ironically enough) Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law 
Center, both of which seem to be intent on fund-raising via alarmist and 
overblown rhetoric...including deliberate slanting and editing of 
evidence in order to support their claims.

	Paranoia on both sides increases the likelihood that actual 
domestic terrorism may occur --- either someone in the Militia may get 
sick of being CALLED a terrorist and say "what the hell, they're gonna 
fry me anyway for my opinions", or someone in the government may initiate 
a military option against Militias...resulting in all-out Civil War.

	What the nation needs desperately is for reasonable people from 
both sides to come together and do their utmost to allay each others' 
fears without violating anyone's civil rights. Militias across the country
have been willing to do this since the Oklahoma City Massacre resulted in 
a nationwide witch hunt targeting them, but the media response --- since 
sane Militia members aren't what the general public WANTS to be told even
exist --- has been lackluster at best.

	Over just the last few days, I exchanged email with a reporter 
from the New Times (a local "hipster weekly" that does some splendid 
investigative reporting) about the liberal slant she gave an article 
regarding an armed "block watch" group which was referred to as 
"gun-toting" and "vigilantes". The reporter, Betty Mihalopoulos, 
responded with a letter full of snide and condescending remarks that did 
nothing to address my questioning of her liberal slant but did a lot to 
lower my opinion of her professionalism. I told her this, and asked 
again for her to defend her positions. She responded with several 
petulant letters of childish insults.
	Along the way, I mentioned that I was involved in a Militia, and 
without bothering to ask what I stood for and why, she took the attitude 
that she would not defend her positions because to do so would help me
"spread poison". Clearly, she had a bias of hatred based on prejudicial 
ideals of what Militias "really" stand for.

	It is this sort of attitude that must be overcome...the press 
must STOP picking, choosing and editing what they want to hear from us 
and ignoring the rest. They must STOP printing sensationalistic articles 
about Militias designed to sell papers first and report news second. The 
problem is that "free press" in no way means "fair press", and the profit 
motive makes reporting the whole truth about Militias a risky proposition 
for any news organization that likes money.


---LCD


Article 31849 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (04146cb01761b6224058dcf6f564c528)
References: <840106991$1231@atype.com>
From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 16 Aug 1996 08:37:49 -0400
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 12:48:04 GMT
Message-ID: <840199684$8718@atype.com>
Subject: Re: What is the Militia?
Lines: 132


In article <840106991$1231@atype.com>, horseman@indirect.com (Scott Alan
Malcomson) writes:

>PGISSource (pgissource@aol.com) wrote:
>: In article <839714630$25041@atype.com>, rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) writes:
>: >You see my concerns is that well meaning militia guys will snookered
in
>: >by these charlatans and their panaceas. 
>
>: A bit more blunt than most of my statements, but I concur ... only
>: pointing out that it happens on -both- sides.
>
>I THOROUGHLY agree with both statements. The Militia movement is a 
>reaction to a problem that is not being tended to --- the abuse of police

>and other powers on the part of the Federal government. It is, 
>unfortunately, beset by people like Mark Koernke and Linda Thompson, who 
>peddle conspiracy theories to people hungry for *some* sort of 
>explanation and who are ignored or condescended to by authorities.

The problem here lies in the militia court (not a CLC court)  I do not now
how much a real following these two and others, like Norm Olson or the
Trochmanns, have.  However, they appear to the rest of the country as the
official spokesmen for the militia movement.  The appearence of the CLC
movement, county supremcy movement, the sessionist movements in Alaska,
Texas, and Hawaii, and the like, makes the militia movement (which whether
you like or not, is part of the whole patriot movement) suspect in the
eyes of most Americans.  If you talk about reducing big government,
allowing greater individual freedom, lower taxes, etc. you have a
receptive audience.  However, you lose them when all this other stuff
comes up. 

>	The anti-Militia movement is in turn a reaction to the Militia 
>movement, and is mainly peopled by citizens fearful of arms in the hands
of 
>people who not only are not controlled by government but who actively 
>distrust/hate it. For its part, it is beset by agencies like the 
>(ironically enough) Anti-Defamation League and Southern Poverty Law 
>Center, both of which seem to be intent on fund-raising via alarmist and 
>overblown rhetoric...including deliberate slanting and editing of 
>evidence in order to support their claims.

Most Americans already had this fear.  It is ancient in our history. We
have always been suspicious of viglilante groups, mobs, and kangaroo
courts.  Most western movies portray the properly deputized posse in a
better light than the ad hoc lynch mobs.

As the ADL and SPLC, this reminds of me of the Soviet and American
military during the Cold War.  Both justified their existence and need for
more money by dramatizing the dangers posed by each other.  This also
occurs in the actions of both the anti and pro militia organizations.
Exaggeration is not good but normal.
>
>	Paranoia on both sides increases the likelihood that actual 
>domestic terrorism may occur --- either someone in the Militia may get 
>sick of being CALLED a terrorist and say "what the hell, they're gonna 
>fry me anyway for my opinions", or someone in the government may initiate

>a military option against Militias...resulting in all-out Civil War.

See  comments above.
>
>	What the nation needs desperately is for reasonable people from 
>both sides to come together and do their utmost to allay each others' 
>fears without violating anyone's civil rights. Militias across the
country
>have been willing to do this since the Oklahoma City Massacre resulted in

>a nationwide witch hunt targeting them, but the media response --- since 
>sane Militia members aren't what the general public WANTS to be told even
>exist --- has been lackluster at best.

Look the media has sell newspapers and get higher ratings.  The problem
with media, and has always been if you examine its history in this
country, is that sensationalism and beating the other guys puts money in
their pockets.  Some outlets are better than others, but what I said above
is still the norm.  
>
>	Over just the last few days, I exchanged email with a reporter 
>from the New Times (a local "hipster weekly" that does some splendid 
>investigative reporting) about the liberal slant she gave an article 
>regarding an armed "block watch" group which was referred to as 
>"gun-toting" and "vigilantes". The reporter, Betty Mihalopoulos, 
>responded with a letter full of snide and condescending remarks that did 
>nothing to address my questioning of her liberal slant but did a lot to 
>lower my opinion of her professionalism. I told her this, and asked 
>again for her to defend her positions. She responded with several 
>petulant letters of childish insults.
>	Along the way, I mentioned that I was involved in a Militia, and 
>without bothering to ask what I stood for and why, she took the attitude 
>that she would not defend her positions because to do so would help me
>"spread poison". Clearly, she had a bias of hatred based on prejudicial 
>ideals of what Militias "really" stand for.

There are lots of intolerate people in all walks of life and of all
persuasions.  Why there might even be some intolerate people in this
newsgroup.
>
>	It is this sort of attitude that must be overcome...the press 
>must STOP picking, choosing and editing what they want to hear from us 
>and ignoring the rest. They must STOP printing sensationalistic articles 
>about Militias designed to sell papers first and report news second. The 
>problem is that "free press" in no way means "fair press", and the profit

>motive makes reporting the whole truth about Militias a risky proposition

>for any news organization that likes money.
>
>
>---LCD

Other than violating the first amendment there isn't much you can do. 
Perhaps ridding your movement of the some wackos might help.  But this
isn't a problem just for you guys.  When I am involved in a political
campaign and attend a rally of something, I am appalled at the basic lack
of knowledge some reporters have concerning politics.  They also misquote
more often than they care to admit.  And that last point drives you nuts. 
You may work on getting your candidate's message out but the media will
garbble it unless it really supports you. The crazy thing is that most of
time it is not malicious of the part of the media.  They say it was
because of a lack of space or time that hindered our coverage.  If I had a
dollar for every time a reporter ticked me off, I could buy a TV station. 
  Oh it must have been easier back in the days when newspapers were out
and out owned by the political parties.

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 31883 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (ebdddb648501708a6495f56dedc00b49)
From: hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
Organization: Internex Online (shell.io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Return-Path: hempster@zot.io.org
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.ott.hookup.net!hookup!olivea!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 4:34:58 GMT
Message-ID: <840170098$6381@atype.com>
Subject: The astonishing CLINT
Lines: 30


rarpol.aol.com writes:

r> Gee, from what I have read in the Clinton Chronicles there
r> is little documentation and whole lot of hearsay.

  That is true. However in New Clintons Chronicles the actual 
former family doctor of Clinton is interviewed.
 
  r>  In fact, the 2nd books claims
r> documented proof of Bill Clinton taking drugs. 

 That would be the 'revised' Clintons Chronicles book.
New Clintons Chronicles was not made into a book.
  
  r>  When I read those
r> documents not a word was mentioned about that, hmm, can you
r> say hype.

  The New Clintons Chronicles video is available through the 
Jeremiah Films website:
 
  http://www.jeremiah.org

  Don't believe me? Prove me wrong!

r> Clinton hating cottoge industry who produce material with
r> the same quality as Linda Thompson.
 
  Nahh.. Tompson's videos are shabbier.                                                     


Article 32239 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (dbff158cdea755f664c66e53e702d9b7)
References: <840170098$6381@atype.com>
From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 16 Aug 1996 17:12:24 -0400
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 96 21:18:47 GMT
Message-ID: <840230327$14103@atype.com>
Subject: Re: The astonishing CLINT
Lines: 46


In article <840170098$6381@atype.com>, hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
writes:

>rarpol.aol.com writes:
>
>r> Gee, from what I have read in the Clinton Chronicles there
>r> is little documentation and whole lot of hearsay.
>
>  That is true. However in New Clintons Chronicles the actual 
>former family doctor of Clinton is interviewed.
> 
>  r>  In fact, the 2nd books claims
>r> documented proof of Bill Clinton taking drugs. 
>
> That would be the 'revised' Clintons Chronicles book.
>New Clintons Chronicles was not made into a book.
>  
>  r>  When I read those
>r> documents not a word was mentioned about that, hmm, can you
>r> say hype.
>
>  The New Clintons Chronicles video is available through the 
>Jeremiah Films website:
> 
>  http://www.jeremiah.org
>
>  Don't believe me? Prove me wrong!
>
>r> Clinton hating cottoge industry who produce material with
>r> the same quality as Linda Thompson.
> 
>  Nahh.. Tompson's videos are shabbier.
>
>
>

So what is this new book called: I thought and read only two, is the third
edition?

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 32302 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (501d3181bb5af937c709a5e0190ac613)
References: <839950054$11478@atype.com> <840292408$18456@atype.com>
From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
Return-Path: news@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.jumppoint.com!n2van.istar!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!uniserve!news.sol.net!news.inc.net!news.moneng.mei.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 96 19:03:39 GMT
Message-ID: <840308619$20242@atype.com>
Subject: Re: The Voice of the Militia
Lines: 15



In article <840292408$18456@atype.com>, Jeber1  wrote:
>
>Just a thought...
>
>Maybe it is time to find a level headed person to be the "Voice of the
>Militia".  With so many different fractions running around if the Country
>falls apart each group will most likely take over their own county and
>prepare for these little skirmishes between other groups who don't believe
>as they do.  AKA Bosinia? Somalia? ever heard of them?
>
>Just a thought...

I nominate Linda Thompson.


Article 32474 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (df695ab35aec86cf45f1db3e6ddee51f)
References: <840308619$20242@atype.com>
From: ahabiz@aol.com (AHABIZ)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 18 Aug 1996 05:43:25 -0400
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!info.ucla.edu!news.ucdavis.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 9:48:32 GMT
Message-ID: <840361712$23928@atype.com>
Subject: Re: The Voice of the Militia
Lines: 10


In article <840308619$20242@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>I nominate Linda Thompson.

sorry mark, until you actually join a militia unit, you aren't a voting
member.

Arlin


Article 32498 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (152f5f6281b627778610084baa06125c)
From: mo10cav@aol.com (Mo10Cav)
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Return-Path: news@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Posted-Date: 18 Aug 1996 09:56:47 -0400
Reply-To: mo10cav@aol.com (Mo10Cav)
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-7.sprintlink.net!news.clark.net!mr.net!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.asu.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!grapevine.lcs.mit.edu!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 14:03:04 GMT
Message-ID: <840376984$25476@atype.com>
Subject: 1 ACR: "Waco: Rules of Engagement"
Lines: 73


18 August 96

To All Constitutional Militia Units, Officers and NCOs

There is a two-years-in-the-making documentary about to hit the theatres
this fall (October-November) called Waco: "Rules of Engagement".  At
present it is about 2 hours and 10 minutes in length.  This film, which
takes evidence and testimony presented at the Davidians' trial and the
congressional hearing and compares it with what is now known from FLIR
tapes and other evidence-- (including footage that was not available to
the congressional investigation, leaked by highly placed sources within
the intelligence community).

I have not yet seen this movie.  I have had significant portions of it
described to me by those involved in the project.  Gentlemen and ladies,
when this film is shown to the American public it will blow the lid off
the Waco massacre.  THIS IS NOT A LINDA THOMPSON REDUX.  This is a
professionally done, 100% factual work which employed a small army of
recognized experts in ordnance, photographic and FLIR analysis, law
enforcement and hostage situations.  If you thought the Jim Pate article
in last month's Soldier of Fortune was startling (see sidebar on FLIR
evidence of government forces firing  into the rear of
the building as Davidians are struggling to escape the fire), you ain't
seen nothin' yet.

If what this documentary presents is true (and I believe it to be), then
Waco was in fact an American Lidice or Ouradour massacre.  The FLIR
evidence is conclusive, and the movie presents other evidence to back it
up.  There will be plenty here to reopen the Waco investigation on the
Senate side, with perhaps a special prosecutor appointed to find out how
far this murder conspiracy went.

Quite frankly, the problem for militia commanders will be how to restrain
the fringe elements and loose cannons from taking events into their own
hands after they see this film. (Or to cope with the likely results in the
event that they do.)  This movie will be very powerful and hard-hitting. 
If the Clinton Co-Presidency is reelected, particularly if the Republicans
lose one or both houses of Congress at the same time, then the hope for
any serious investigation of this new evidence will be nil.  In such a
case, the likely criminals identified by this movie will be targets for
assassination by rogue elements/borderline mental cases.  I wouldn't want
to be Jeff Jamar, Jim Cavanaugh, Ron Noble, Sarabyn or Chojnacki in that
case, not to mention the Secret Service detail that has to guard the
Co-Presidents. 

 And these won't be nut cases like the fellow who sprayed the White House
lawn with an SKS.  These will be U.S. military-trained men who know how
much bulletdrop they've got to compensate for at 500 meters.  Now there is
nothing more repugnant to me than the thought of Bill Clinton rotting
beneath an eternal flame in Arlington and befouling the ground reserved
for America's heroes.  The very act of assassination is a loser's tool. 
It has been roundly condemned over the past years by virtually all of the
Constitutional militia movement. Even if it is successful in murdering
without trial a criminal or two, the very act will bring down martial
law-- the same thing the Clinton Administration and their Nazi lackeys
seem to be seeking.

The Clinton Administration is expected to take steps to try to stop this
film from being distributed.  The question is: does the possibility of
inciting nutcases to violence overrule the compelling presentation of the
truth to the rest of us?  The answer to me is no.  Truth must out.  But
forewarned is forearmed.  This will be a very disturbing and provocative
movie.  Constitutional militia units should be urged by their officers and
NCOs to seek every legal means of redress for the crimes the movie makes
plain.  God willing, Clinton will not be reelected.  

But whatever happens, we must remember the mission laid out to us under
law by the Founders, and reinforce every day the Lexington orders: "Don't
Fire Unless Fired Upon!"

-- Mike Vanderboegh, Bvt. Col., 
1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, Militia  


Article 32540 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
Organization: The Ohio State University
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 17:03:09 GMT
Message-ID: <840387789$26513@atype.com>
Subject: Re: The Voice of the Militia
Lines: 14



In article <840361712$23928@atype.com>, AHABIZ  wrote:
>
>In article <840308619$20242@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
>
>>I nominate Linda Thompson.
>
>sorry mark, until you actually join a militia unit, you aren't a voting
>member.

But I thought everybody aged 18-45 was part of the militia.  Gee, I get so 
confused by your rules.


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From: Robert Ireland 
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Date: Sun, 18 Aug 96 19:18:26 GMT
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Subject: Re: The Voice of the Militia
Lines: 25


Mark T Pitcavage wrote:
> 
> In article <840361712$23928@atype.com>, AHABIZ  wrote:
> >
> >In article <840308619$20242@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
> >(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
> >
> >>I nominate Linda Thompson.
> >
> >sorry mark, until you actually join a militia unit, you aren't a voting
> >member.
> 
> But I thought everybody aged 18-45 was part of the militia.  Gee, I get so
> confused by your rules.

-- 
Mark,

How can you be a member, if you refuse to serve?

Robert Ireland
aircav@zapcom.net

"Liberty is not free, it must be fought for every day."


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From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
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Date: Mon, 19 Aug 96 14:03:16 GMT
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Subject: Re: The Voice of the Militia
Lines: 26


In article <840395906$27064@atype.com>,
Robert Ireland   wrote:
>
>Mark T Pitcavage wrote:
>>
>> In article <840361712$23928@atype.com>, AHABIZ  wrote:
>> >
>> >In article <840308619$20242@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
>> >(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:
>> >
>> >>I nominate Linda Thompson.
>> >
>> >sorry mark, until you actually join a militia unit, you aren't a voting
>> >member.
>>
>> But I thought everybody aged 18-45 was part of the militia.  Gee, I get so
>> confused by your rules.
>
>--
>Mark,
>
>How can you be a member, if you refuse to serve?

Why, Robert, I am doing EVERYTHING that is REQUIRED and EXPECTED of the 
unorganized militia.


Article 32888 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 96 6:03:12 GMT
Message-ID: <840520992$6109@atype.com>
Subject: Re: 1 ACR: "Waco: Rules of Engagement"
Lines: 95


In article <840376984$25476@atype.com>, mo10cav@aol.com (Mo10Cav) writes:

>18 August 96
>
>To All Constitutional Militia Units, Officers and NCOs
>
>There is a two-years-in-the-making documentary about to hit the theatres
>this fall (October-November) called Waco: "Rules of Engagement".  At
>present it is about 2 hours and 10 minutes in length.  This film, which
>takes evidence and testimony presented at the Davidians' trial and the
>congressional hearing and compares it with what is now known from FLIR
>tapes and other evidence-- (including footage that was not available to
>the congressional investigation, leaked by highly placed sources within
>the intelligence community).
>
>I have not yet seen this movie.  I have had significant portions of it
>described to me by those involved in the project.  Gentlemen and ladies,
>when this film is shown to the American public it will blow the lid off
>the Waco massacre.  THIS IS NOT A LINDA THOMPSON REDUX.  This is a
>professionally done, 100% factual work which employed a small army of
>recognized experts in ordnance, photographic and FLIR analysis, law
>enforcement and hostage situations.  If you thought the Jim Pate article
>in last month's Soldier of Fortune was startling (see sidebar on FLIR
>evidence of government forces firing  into the rear of
>the building as Davidians are struggling to escape the fire), you ain't
>seen nothin' yet.
>
>If what this documentary presents is true (and I believe it to be), then
>Waco was in fact an American Lidice or Ouradour massacre.  The FLIR
>evidence is conclusive, and the movie presents other evidence to back it
>up.  There will be plenty here to reopen the Waco investigation on the
>Senate side, with perhaps a special prosecutor appointed to find out how
>far this murder conspiracy went.
>
>Quite frankly, the problem for militia commanders will be how to restrain
>the fringe elements and loose cannons from taking events into their own
>hands after they see this film. (Or to cope with the likely results in
the
>event that they do.)  This movie will be very powerful and hard-hitting. 
>If the Clinton Co-Presidency is reelected, particularly if the
Republicans
>lose one or both houses of Congress at the same time, then the hope for
>any serious investigation of this new evidence will be nil.  In such a
>case, the likely criminals identified by this movie will be targets for
>assassination by rogue elements/borderline mental cases.  I wouldn't want
>to be Jeff Jamar, Jim Cavanaugh, Ron Noble, Sarabyn or Chojnacki in that
>case, not to mention the Secret Service detail that has to guard the
>Co-Presidents. 
>
> And these won't be nut cases like the fellow who sprayed the White House
>lawn with an SKS.  These will be U.S. military-trained men who know how
>much bulletdrop they've got to compensate for at 500 meters.  Now there
is
>nothing more repugnant to me than the thought of Bill Clinton rotting
>beneath an eternal flame in Arlington and befouling the ground reserved
>for America's heroes.  The very act of assassination is a loser's tool. 
>It has been roundly condemned over the past years by virtually all of the
>Constitutional militia movement. Even if it is successful in murdering
>without trial a criminal or two, the very act will bring down martial
>law-- the same thing the Clinton Administration and their Nazi lackeys
>seem to be seeking.
>
>The Clinton Administration is expected to take steps to try to stop this
>film from being distributed.  The question is: does the possibility of
>inciting nutcases to violence overrule the compelling presentation of the
>truth to the rest of us?  The answer to me is no.  Truth must out.  But
>forewarned is forearmed.  This will be a very disturbing and provocative
>movie.  Constitutional militia units should be urged by their officers
and
>NCOs to seek every legal means of redress for the crimes the movie makes
>plain.  God willing, Clinton will not be reelected.  
>
>But whatever happens, we must remember the mission laid out to us under
>law by the Founders, and reinforce every day the Lexington orders: "Don't
>Fire Unless Fired Upon!"
>
>-- Mike Vanderboegh, Bvt. Col., 
>1st Alabama Cavalry Regiment, Milit

Who or what is the production company?  How many screens will it shown on?
 I curious, especially the whole genre of anti-Clinton films has spawned a
whole series of "quality produced" works with "100% document", when it
turns out not to be case.  Is this film to nothing more than another
anti-Clinton propaganda piece or will it be a serious documentary?  These
are serious questions.  I have seen several of these films, and caught
numerous factual errors or some creative editing.  They use a whole lot
innuendo and speculation by posing numerous leading questions.  

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 33340 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 20:48:19 GMT
Message-ID: <840833299$22761@atype.com>
Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 11



In article <840831539$22632@atype.com>, CHarri3122  wrote:
>
>1 tape recorder 2 long range mike 3a good assalt vido recorder  +camria4
>fax 5be well read know what your talking about 6 copy machine assalt
>toner. cb radio+big mouth. a pen to right local news papers
>rambo

Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
Linda Thompson in a pear tree.


Article 33463 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: joe@junior.apk.net (Joseph T. Adams)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 17:03:03 GMT
Message-ID: <840906183$25729@atype.com>
Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 17



Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:

: Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
: Linda Thompson in a pear tree.


Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
Mark?

Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
Johnson is Black.)


Joe


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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 17:33:48 GMT
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Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 37


joe@junior.apk.net (Joseph T. Adams) wrote:
>
>
>Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>
>: Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
>: Linda Thompson in a pear tree.
>
>
>Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
>Mark?
>
>Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
>of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
>Johnson is Black.)
>
>
>Joe
***********************************************************

It might behoove some from the greater Ohio area to go to "college" for a 
day or two; and see who the off-color Dr.'s "friends" and associates are. 
Perhaps, who finances some of his endeavors, what "associations" he 
speaks to, or attends, and some proir "work" jhistory.

When did he move from Texas; who were his "friends" there? Why the "move" 
and what tyes of "special" students might he have mentored to...

He "seems" the joker; but the one-liners are subject to both awe and 
background. So, check him out. maybe you will want to take one of his 
classes?
peace:

waffie




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From: mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Mark T Pitcavage)
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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 17:33:40 GMT
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Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 24


In article <840906183$25729@atype.com>,
Joseph T. Adams  wrote:
>
>
>Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>
>: Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, a
nd 
>: Linda Thompson in a pear tree.
>
>
>Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
>Mark?
>
>Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
>of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
>Johnson is Black.)
>
>
>Joe

I thought Linda Thompson was Ghurka!  She talks about Ghurka invaders so 
much...


Article 33540 of misc.activism.militia:
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From: medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz)
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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 19:33:17 GMT
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Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 28


spake Joseph T. Adams:


: Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:

: : Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
: : Linda Thompson in a pear tree.


: Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
: Mark?

: Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
: of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
: Johnson is Black.)

It's probably more a matter of Linda Thompson being a total loon. JJ seemed
to have his head securely bolted on the few times that I heard him speak,
but Thompson is completely out there. 

: Joe

--
Mike S. Medintz   http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~medintz
"Can you pull that switch yourself, sir, with a sure and steady hand?
 And can you still tell yourself, sir, that you're better than I am?"
	-Steve Earle "Billy Austin."


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Lines: 7


In article <840833299$22761@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

> and Linda Thompson in a pear tree.

t-o-o-o k-i-n-k-y


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From: devens@uoguelph.ca (David L Evens)
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Date: Sat, 24 Aug 96 22:33:26 GMT
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Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 32


Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:


: In article <840831539$22632@atype.com>, CHarri3122  wrote:
: >
: >1 tape recorder 2 long range mike 3a good assalt vido recorder  +camria4
: >fax 5be well read know what your talking about 6 copy machine assalt
: >toner. cb radio+big mouth. a pen to right local news papers
: >rambo

: Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
: Linda Thompson in a pear tree.

I see you believe that it is immoral to tell the truth.

--
---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
Ring around the neutron,   |  "OK, so he's not terribly fearsome.
A pocket full of positrons,|   But he certainly took us by surprise!"
A fission, a fusion,       +--------------------------------------------------
We all fall down!          |  "Was anybody in the Maquis working for me?"
---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
"I'd cut down ever Law in England to get at the Devil!"
"And what man could stand up in the wind that would blow once you'd cut 
down all the laws?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message may not be carried on any server which places restrictions 
on content.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail will be posted as I see fit.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Article 33622 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (a4e93f46a725085ea24199def5e1097a)
From: hempster@io.org (frankenchrist)
Organization: Internex Online (shell.io.org), Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Return-Path: hempster@zot.io.org
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!nntp04.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!uunet!in2.uu.net!atype.com!militia-request
Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 96 5:03:41 GMT
Message-ID: <840949421$29966@atype.com>
Subject: OUTLAW the MILITIA!
Lines: 25


devens@uoguelph.ca writes:

   d> :   The urban death toll makes Waco look like a tea party.
d> Cops  : have been crushing in the walls of peoples homes with
d> tanks for :  over a decade, or just plain assassinating
d> *suspected* drug : dealers. The citizens are powerless to
d> fight this. The Guadian : Angels do  protect people from the
d> police. And neither do the : militias. 
d> 
d> You obviously left out a 'not' in the second last sentence,

  Whoops!

d> but you have  also obviously missed several postingsreporting
d> EXACTLY the kind of  Militia investigative activity you
d> pretend does not exist.

  Miltiias have investigated the suspected assasination of 
drug dealers? I know Linda Thompson is defending people 
who were hurt in a pretty ugly drug raid but she's more
of a militia of one.

---
 ŝ KWQ/2 1.2i NR ŝ Windows?  WINDOWS?!?  Hahahahahehehehehohohoho...             


Article 33831 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (70cfb84b29dd39252aca2683ea2dd3f0)
References: <840933199$28388@atype.com>
From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 16:09:41 GMT
Message-ID: <841162181$17979@atype.com>
Subject: Re: FBI investigates Perot re Norm Olson
Lines: 22


In article <840933199$28388@atype.com>, mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
(Mark T Pitcavage) writes:

>>Jesus Christ!!!  Does anyone need any more evidence that Ross Perot is 
>>getting senile.  Norm Olsen as VP?  Perot continues to self destruct 
>>before our very eyes.
>>
>>
>>Robert Ireland
>>aircav@zapcom.net

Olson as Veep, John Trochmann as SecState, Randy Trochmann as SecDef,
Linda THompson as AG, Gene Schroeder as SecTreas, and Dave Cinege as head
of the Peace Corps.  Now there's an administration to remember!

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 33844 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (83a631556d4a2243d26f14541c7a9771)
References: <840760383$18669@atype.com> <840831539$22632@atype.com> <840833299$22761@atype.com>
From: medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz)
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:41:51 GMT
Message-ID: <841160511$16347@atype.com>
Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 14


spake Mark T Pitcavage:

: and Linda Thompson in a pear tree.

Mark, that's a mental picture that I really didn't need. Knock it off or
you'll get Senator Exon worked up again, and I'm not sure his heart can 
take it.

--
Mike S. Medintz   http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~medintz
"Can you pull that switch yourself, sir, with a sure and steady hand?
 And can you still tell yourself, sir, that you're better than I am?"
	-Steve Earle "Billy Austin."


Article 33862 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (7574df42bd347e9146638227c7c353d4)
References: <840760383$18669@atype.com> <840831539$22632@atype.com> <840833299$22761@atype.com> <840906183$25729@atype.com> <840915197$26175@atype.com>
From: dcinege@superlink.net (Dave Cinege)
X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.9d - NLS
Organization: www.psychosis.com
Return-Path: news@earth.superlink.net
Reply-To: dcinege@psychosis.com (Dave Cinege)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 15:48:36 GMT
Message-ID: <841160916$16710@atype.com>
Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 33


In <840915197$26175@atype.com>, medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S. Medintz) writes:
>
>spake Joseph T. Adams:
>
>
>: Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>
>: : Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two turtledoves, and 
>: : Linda Thompson in a pear tree.
>
>
>: Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
>: Mark?
>
>: Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
>: of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
>: Johnson is Black.)
>
>It's probably more a matter of Linda Thompson being a total loon. JJ seemed
>to have his head securely bolted on the few times that I heard him speak,
>but Thompson is completely out there. 

Yeah, Thompson is definitely koo koo for cocopuffs.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave 'Kill a Cop' Cinege  (aka Psychopath #3)  ---  Super Genius at Large
http://www.psychosis.com/            Happiness is a full bag of 34-0-0.....

Harry Browne for President in '96       Libertarian Party 1-800-682-1776
http://www.rahul.net/browne/           http://www.lp.org/



Article 34046 of misc.activism.militia:
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (577287a389f05395ad3db22afc3138f9)
References: <841160916$16710@atype.com>
From: rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL)
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 96 9:20:07 GMT
Message-ID: <841224007$20609@atype.com>
Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 43


In article <841160916$16710@atype.com>, dcinege@superlink.net (Dave
Cinege) writes:

>In <840915197$26175@atype.com>, medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S.
Medintz)
>writes:
>>
>>spake Joseph T. Adams:
>>
>>
>>: Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>>
>>: : Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two
>turtledoves, and 
>>: : Linda Thompson in a pear tree.
>>
>>
>>: Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
>>: Mark?
>>
>>: Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
>>: of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
>>: Johnson is Black.)
>>
>>It's probably more a matter of Linda Thompson being a total loon. JJ
seemed
>>to have his head securely bolted on the few times that I heard him
speak,
>>but Thompson is completely out there. 
>
>Yeah, Thompson is definitely koo koo for cocopuffs.....
>
>

Well we heard it from the expert!

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 34124 of misc.activism.militia:
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 6:03:08 GMT
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Subject: Re: How a potential militia man should be armed?
Lines: 61


All this is either TRUE or FALSE or PART-TRUE or PART-FALSE. [mostly, I 
don't know linda, or her group, so I can't judge what she is or is 
not...]

However, Mr. Pitcaveage does not attack the woman because of the reasons 
listed.

Mark T. Pitcaveage has "associates" and therefore he abides as one does 
under such conditions--and for those reasons, No?

peace man:
waffie
*************************************************************8

rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) wrote:
>
>In article <841160916$16710@atype.com>, dcinege@superlink.net (Dave
>Cinege) writes:
>
>>In <840915197$26175@atype.com>, medintz@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Mike S.
>Medintz)
>>writes:
>>>
>>>spake Joseph T. Adams:
>>>
>>>
>>>: Mark T Pitcavage (mpitcava@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
>>>
>>>: : Five golden rings, four french hens, three calling birds, two
>>turtledoves, and 
>>>: : Linda Thompson in a pear tree.
>>>
>>>
>>>: Why this strange fascination with Linda Thompson and J.J. Johnson,
>>>: Mark?
>>>
>>>: Could it have anything to do with the fact that they are both Patriots
>>>: of color?  (For those who don't know, Thompson is Native American, and
>>>: Johnson is Black.)
>>>
>>>It's probably more a matter of Linda Thompson being a total loon. JJ
>seemed
>>>to have his head securely bolted on the few times that I heard him
>speak,
>>>but Thompson is completely out there. 
>>
>>Yeah, Thompson is definitely koo koo for cocopuffs.....
>>
>>
>
>Well we heard it from the expert!
>
>Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)
>
>No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
>questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
>otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
>this post. 




Article 34132 of misc.activism.militia:
Approved: militia-request@atype.com (7fdefcc1b66d5a782f213501d8e1b08b)
References: <840933199$28388@atype.com>
   <841162181$17979@atype.com>
From: alain@e-sense.net (Alain Simon)
Organization: Virtual Illusions & Concrete Virtualities
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 15:18:05 GMT
Message-ID: <841331885$25913@atype.com>
Subject: Re: FBI investigates Perot re Norm Olson
Lines: 24


In article <841162181$17979@atype.com>,
rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) 
tells us about the Perot administration:

>  Olson as Veep, John Trochmann as SecState, Randy Trochmann as SecDef,
>  Linda THompson as AG, Gene Schroeder as SecTreas, and Dave Cinege as head
>  of the Peace Corps.  Now there's an administration to remember!

      Thankfully we won't have to... on the other hand, the top two contending
      would be wannabees don't look too hot either.

>  No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
>  questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
>  otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
>  this post. 

      yes, but think about all the elctrons who have been coerced into forming
      patterns representing thoughts which they don't necessarily agree with!

-- 
Virtually me, really... http://w3.e-sense.net/Alain
  PGP public key available on usual servers (13EF7332C45976D729569FDD7D84FF19)
  Slogan of the day: Liberalize breathing!


Article 34300 of misc.activism.militia:
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                              ARMED & DANGEROUS:
                  MILITIAS TAKE AIM AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
                                       
                          AN ADL FACT FINDING REPORT
                                       
                        (ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE, 1994)
                                       
   
     _________________________________________________________________
   


   ARMED & DANGEROUS: MILITIAS TAKE AIM AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

   AN ADL FACT FINDING REPORT

   Anti-Defamation League, 1994


     _________________________________________________________________

   ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE

   David H. Strassler, National Chairman
   Abraham H. Foxman, National Director
   Howard P. Berkowitz, Chairman, National Executive Committee
   Peter T. Willner, Chief Operating Officer
   Kenneth Jacobson, Assistant National Director
   Robert G. Sugarman, Chairman, Civil Rights Committee
   Jeffrey P. Sinensky, Director, Civil Rights Division
   Gary Zaslav, Chairman, Fact Finding and Research Committee

   October 1994

   This publication was prepared by Irwin Suall, Director of Special
   Projects; Thomas Halpern, Associate Director, Fact Finding Department;
   David Rosenberg, Assistant Director, Fact Finding Department; and
   James Q. Purcell, Assistant to the Civil Rights Director.

   (C) 1994 Anti-Defamation League, Printed in the United States of
   America, All rights reserved

                               TABLE OF CONTENTS

   Introduction
   Arizona
   Colorado
   Florida
   Idaho
   Indiana
   Michigan
   Missouri
   Montana
   New Hampshire
   New Mexico
   North Carolina
   Ohio
   Virginia
   Conclusion
   Appendix



Introduction

   Bands of armed right-wing militants. most calling themselves
   "militias," are cropping up across America. They have no centralized
   structure, but there are linkages among some of them, consisting
   largely of the sharing of propaganda material and speakers. A survey
   conducted by the Anti-Defamation League has found evidence of their
   activity in no fewer than 13 states.

   The aims of these militias, often bellicosely stated, involve laying
   the groundwork for massive resistance to the federal government and
   its law enforcement agencies as well as opposition to gun control
   laws. In the view of many such extremists. numbering in the
   thousands. America's government is the enemy, now widening its
   authoritarian control and planning warfare against the citizenry.

   To the militia ideologues, gun control legislation -- the Brady
   Law,(1) restrictions on assault weapons.(2) etc. -- are major
   stratagems in a secret government conspiracy to disarm and control
   the American people and abolish their Constitutional "right to bear
   arms."(3) They are also obsessed with the role of government in two
   recent events -- the Branch Davidian confrontation in Waco(4) and the
   Randy Weaver siege in Idaho(5) -- which they interpret as signs of
   impending tyranny. The answer, say these extremists, is ultimately,
   necessarily, paramilitary resistance. An armed and aroused citizenry
   must be mobilized and ready for a call to war.

   For most, if not all, of the militias, the fear of government
   confiscation of their weapons is a paramount concern. Samuel
   Sherwood, head of the "U.S. Militia Association" in Idaho, states:
   "When they come around to collect weapons, we'll have the legal and
   lawful structure to say 'no' to that." Randy Trochmann of the
   "Militia of Montana" gets tougher: "If and when the federal
   government decides to confiscate weapons, people will band together
   to stop them. They are not going to give up their guns." And the
   "enemy" easily becomes nightmarish: Robert Pummer, a leader of the
   "Florida State Militia," says that his group is "capable of defending
   ourselves against chemical and biological agents."

   Although thwarting gun control is the chief aim of the militias, they
   seek to turn the clock back on federal involvement in a host of other
   issues as well, e.g., education, abortion, the environment.

   Case in point: Norman Olson, a regional militia commander in northern
   Michigan, has envisioned violence erupting if present government
   policies continue. Olson, a Baptist minister who owns a gun shop,
   declared: "We're talking about a situation where armed conflict may
   be inevitable if the country doesn't turn around." (Emphasis added.)
   Most often the central issue of the militants has been the legality
   of guns themselves. Clearly, their deeper suspicions and terrors
   should be of concern: Is their militant cause merely the alleged
   gun-toting "right" of citizens? -- or is it the "turning around" of
   the U.S. itself from what the militants see as the "treasonous"
   direction of the federal government's present policies? The question
   which no one can answer just yet is what, exactly, the "militias"
   intend to do with their guns.

   Might they still, as many observers hope, limit themselves to the
   time-honored means provided by the Constitution -- freedom of
   expression, the ballot, the courts, the right of petition --or do
   they intend to resort to lawlessness?

   A recent episode in Virginia offers some partial but troubling
   evidence. Members of a militia group calling itself the Blue Ridge
   Hunt Club were arrested for possession of illegal weapons. The leader
   of the group, James Roy Mullins, and three others who were taken into
   custody, were found to be stockpiling weapons in their homes and
   storage facilities. Found on a computer disk in Mullins' home was a
   draft of the group's newsletter stating that it planned a series of
   terrorist actions in furtherance of its aims. According to an ATF
   official. the group intended to further arm itself by raiding the
   National Guard Armory in Pulaski. Virginia.

   A further and vexing problem uncovered by investigation of the
   growing militias is the presence in some of them -- even in
   leadership roles -- of persons with histories of racial and religious
   bigotry and of political extremism. In the Northwest. for example, we
   find militia leaders with backgrounds in the Aryan Nations movement.
   and elsewhere other erstwhile neo Nazis and Ku Kluxers.

   The militias are of concern and doubtless will remain so in the
   coming months: they are driven by a combustible issue in American
   life which remains unresolved -- that of gun control, an issue of
   urgency and passion in a society beset by violent crime. Coming head
   to head: a cry for weapons restrictions and a perceived
   Constitutional right. Most of those siding with the latter are
   law-abiding citizens who feel that guns are desirable for personal
   defense or for sport. Many of them feel that the National Rifle
   Association (NRA) adequately represents their concerns: others who
   see the NRA as too moderate have sought out more extreme advocates
   such as the American Pistol and Rifle Association (APRA). Of late,
   however, still others are resorting to the mustering of a far more
   desperate and dangerous "resistance" -- the militia movement that is
   the focus of this report.

   There follows a state-by-state synopsis of militia activity.



Arizona

   Efforts have recently begun in Arizona to create a militia movement.
   David Espy, who portrays himself a latter-day American Revolutionary
   captain, has attempted to organize militia meetings over the last
   several weeks. An advertisement he placed in the September 11 and 25.
   1994 issues of the Prescott Courier announced a meeting in Paulden,
   Arizona of the "Association of the Sons of Liberty and the Volunteer
   Militia." The purpose of the meeting was to discuss plans for action
   against the federal government which, he asserts, "continue[s] to
   pass legislation that weaken our unalienable, private property and
   Bill of Rights (sic)." The formation of a militia is an integral part
   of Espy's plan:

   So. everyone out there, who thinks that taking pride in owning
   firearms, is being fanatical or nuts, should remember where you are
   living and how we all got here to begin with. It wasn't by just
   sitting back and letting the government run our lives and usurping
   our fundamental rights as free people. So forgive me, if I see a
   clear and present danger with what is happening in our country today,
   and that I feel a genuine and rational need to form a volunteer
   militia force. if for no other reason than to [let] Washington know
   that there is still a large group of us out here that have inherited
   revolutionary DNA and are willing to fight for it until our dying
   breath.

   Another aspect of his plan is a demand for "the legal cessation (sic)
   of Arizona from these federal United States."

   Also active in Arizona is Gary D. Hunt. a man obsessed with the Waco
   Branch Davidian incident. Hunt himself was present during the siege
   in Waco and wrote about the event at the time, comparing the Branch
   Davidians to the original revolutionary Minutemen: "I understand why
   [the Minutemen] were willing to stand and face portions of the
   greatest military force in the world. And I understand why David
   Koresh and the other brave defenders of Mount Carmel stand fearlessly
   defending their home and mine."

   More recently, Hunt has distributed a flier dated July 2, 1994 and
   labeled "Sons of Liberty No. 3." The flier describes the
   effectiveness of militias in the Revolutionary War and suggests that
   militias are again needed now. At the bottom of the flier, written in
   by hand, Hunt announced: "March on Phx FBI 8-25-94 5-6 p.m. to
   release the Branch Davidians. Bring legal signs + guns. Tell a
   friend." The FBI and Phoenix Police paid close attention. but the
   planned march never materialized.



Colorado

   Militias in Colorado have benefitted from the support of a number of
   right-wing groups. Most active in the movement are so-called Patriot
   groups that proliferate throughout the state. Others showing support
   for militias in Colorado are the Constitutionists. the Guardians of
   American Liberties (GOAL). and state representative Charles Duke.

   Militias, calling themselves Patriots, are being formed across the
   state and are currently operating in Lakewood, Longmont, Boulder,
   Greeley and Fort Collins. The Fort Collins group is led by Duncan
   Philp, who has been a member of Pete Peters' LaPorte Church of
   Christ. a racist and anti-Semitic church that embraces the ideology
   of the Christian Identity movement.

   The Patriots propaganda promotes the view that the federal government
   has betrayed the people and the Constitution through laws regarding
   home-schooling, abortion, taxation, freedom of speech and religion,
   and, most importantly, gun control. While calling on citizens to take
   political action (e.g., write their Congressmen, attend meetings,
   etc.), they also urge that people prepare to resist the government by
   forming militias and stockpiling weapons, groceries and other
   necessities for survival.

   The Patriots publish a newsletter and sell tapes and videos through
   "The Patriot Library." Among the titles for sale are "The New World
   Order, Communist groups supported by Hillary Clinton." as well as
   tapes describing black helicopters said to be scrutinizing the
   actions of citizens in the western states. A June 22, 1994 "Patriot
   Factsheet" encouraged members to read, by computer access, The
   Spotlight, the organ of the anti-Semitic Liberty Lobby.

   Guardians of American Liberties. a multi-slate organization centered
   in Boulder. is attempting to take a leadership role in the militia
   movement. It describes itself as a national grassroots network of
   American Citizens formed to insure our government is free of
   corruption, that it is actively aligned with the will of the people
   and to safeguard the Constitution of the United States of America
   from all forms of corruption." GOAL has some 40 to 50 members in
   Colorado as well as claimed chapters in Texas, Arizona, California
   and Nevada. It has established a militia committee, although it is
   not clear what degree of success it has achieved in organizing
   militias in Colorado or elsewhere. GOAL literature lists these
   additional committees: a "Federal Reserve & IRS Committee." a
   "Political Prisoner Committee," and a "Sovereignty & Freedom
   Committee," beneath which is printed the slogan. "Kick the Feds out
   of the Counties."

   GOAL's leader. Stewart Webb. has appeared frequently on right-wing
   radio shows to discuss his various conspiracy theories regarding,
   among other issues, the S&L and BCCI scandals. Webb has a history of
   anti-Semitism. From the mid-1980's and into the 90's. he made a
   series of threatening anti-Semitic phone calls and continued to do so
   even after receiving a cease and desist order.

   The Constitutionists. a Kansas-based extremist group whose leadership
   includes Evan Mecham, the impeached former governor of Arizona, has
   received support in its promotion of militias from Colorado State
   representative Charles Duke. Duke spoke at the group's June
   conference in Indianapolis and promoted the formation of militias as
   an effective way for citizens to protect themselves from the
   government. At a Patriots meeting last July, Duke said: "We need some
   ability to get some firepower to protect the citizens. I would like
   to see a militia...[the type] that functions as a sheriff's posse and
   has sufficient training."

   Radio station KHNC in Johnstown has offered its facilities to the
   Patriots and other groups active in the militia movement. KHNC
   broadcasts continuous Patriot programs and talk on "conservative
   issues." Among regulars on the station are Bo Gritz (see Idaho
   section of this report) and Dr. Norm Resnick, an outspoken opponent
   of gun control. In addition to using the radio to air their views.
   Colorado militias also disseminate information on computer bulletin
   boards that reach readers across the country. The Colorado Free
   Militia and Boulder Patriots, for example, are promoted on the New
   Age Electronic Information Service, a Colorado bulletin board.

Florida

   Several groups using the name "militia" have appeared in Florida.(6)
   Among them are groups whose handbooks and leaflets variously engage
   in anti-Semitic innuendo. serve up alarmist warnings of a government
   conspiracy to abolish individual rights (especially gun ownership
   rights), and specify the amount of ammunition and other material each
   militia member is expected to carry.

   One such outfit is the Florida State Militia, whose prime mover is
   Robert Pummer of Stuart, in Martin County. Pummer, a Kansas native
   who was a drug dealer in Michigan in the early 1970's and served time
   for second-degree murder, has been agitating on some of the same
   issues exploited by militia-style groups around the country: gun
   control, the Branch Davidian conflagration in Waco, the Randy Weaver
   siege at Ruby Ridge in Idaho, allegations of Russian and other
   foreign troops operating on U.S. soil, and other conspiracy-minded
   themes. He claims members in every Florida county.

   The Florida State Militia's handbook, published by Pummer, declares:
   "We have had enough -- enough drugs and crime, enough violence and
   bloodshed, enough Waco- and Ruby Ridge-style government attacks on
   Christian Americans." The handbook explains how to organize militia
   regiments. It prescribes the recommended survival gear and weaponry:
   "BUY AMMO NOW! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUY IT LATER! while expressing
   worry over the possibility of infiltration, the handbook offers the
   following reassurance: "[Y]ou still have your inner circle, and this
   the FBI, ATF, or any other federal scumbags cannot penetrate, if you
   keep up your guard."

   Publications contained in a "Patriot List" in the Florida State
   Militia's handbook include several anti-Semitic periodicals: The
   Spotlight, organ of the Washington. D.C.-based Liberty Lobby, the
   wealthiest and most active anti-Semitic propaganda organization in
   the country: The Truth At Last, an obsessively anti-Black and
   anti-Jewish hate sheet produced by longtime extremist Ed Fields of
   Marietta. Georgia; Criminal Politics, a conspiracy-oriented
   anti-Semitic, "anti-Zionist" and anti-establishment monthly; and The
   National Educator, whose pages have honored the leaders of the
   far-right terrorist gang called The Order and the neo-Nazi
   paramilitary group, Aryan Nations. The handbook says a short-wave
   radio is an essential piece of communications equipment. It
   particularly endorses the Liberty Lobby-controlled program "Radio
   Free America" as one source that transmits "what the mainstream media
   will not tell you ."

   Pummer's militia sponsored an Information Fair and Campout in St.
   Lucie County on the weekend of September 17, 1994. The event
   attracted approximately 100 attendees, including some parents who
   came with their children. Most attendees carried firearms, including
   some semi-automatic weapons. Many wore knives. A workshop on radio
   communications was conducted by a man who identified himself as a
   retired police chief and Air Force officer. All attendees were
   encouraged to attend the U.S. Constitution Restoration Rally in
   Lakeland. Florida. on October 1 (see below).

   A Key Largo-based group calls itself alternately the United States
   Militia and the 1st Regiment Florida State Militia. Making a specious
   claim to legitimacy from such documents as the U.S. Constitution, the
   Federalist Papers, the Florida Constitution and Florida statutes,
   this group has been attempting to recruit members at "patriotic" and
   anti-gun control gatherings in Florida. Mimicking the style of the
   Declaration of Independence, its literature speaks of a "Train of
   Abuses" perpetrated on state and local governments and the citizenry
   by the federal government. "Just as our Founding Fathers of this
   country shook off their shackles of bondage," the group declares, "so
   must we."

   The militia's regulations state that "County units will be organized
   in each county of the state." Militia members are told to expect to
   spend one weekend a month engaging in unit activities including
   rallies, shooting events and fund raisers. A list of suitable
   equipment is provided, which includes one thousand rounds of
   ammunition per weapon and six 30-round magazines for each militia
   member. While the group's regulations state that "The unit may not be
   used against the police or governmental authority within the state of
   Florida," an exception may be made when such an "entity" commits
   "crimes of violation of their oath of officer and "of "sections or
   articles of the Constitution of the United States of America and of
   this state."

   The United States Militia's material was distributed at a U.S.
   Constitution Restoration Rally in Lakeland, Florida, on October 1,
   1994. Attended by 1,000 to 1,500 people, the event was sponsored by
   Operation Freedom, an outfit created by Charles and Ruth Ann Spross
   of Maitland Florida. The Sprosses describe their effort as a "for
   profit partnership," and, indeed, they offer for sale scores of video
   and book titles, such as "The Planned Destruction of America" and
   Linda Thompson's "Waco, The Big Lie." Featured on the schedule at the
   October 1 gathering was a speech by M. J. "Red" Beckman, of Montana,
   who has been influential in the militia movement in his home state.

   Distributed along with the speakers program at the rally was a sheet
   bearing the heading: "Paul Revere Rides Again." It proclaimed: "A
   strong and growing Underground Patriotic Movement with state-wide
   militia groups exists against The Sinister Ones that is unreported by
   the monopolistic and controlled establishment media." (sic)
   Identifying such enemies as the House of Rothschild, international
   bankers, the Federal Reserve System and the Trilateral Commission,
   the flier asked: "What is the range of British and Israeli influence
   in the upper tiers?" It urged readers to "Stockpile food, water, guns
   and ammo. Never surrender your weapons.... Subscribe to the weekly
   populist newspaper The Spotlight.... Form or attend meetings with
   other spirited patriots.... Consider yourself warned!"

   Also distributed in large numbers at the rally was a flier urging
   that "All Gun Owners Should Fire A WARNING SHOT As A Signal To The
   New Congress" on November 11 at 11:00 pm. "Congress has failed to
   safeguard the Bill of Rights," it reads, "especially the 2nd
   Amendment." It further declares:

   A warship will fire a warning shot across the bow, a rattlesnake will
   sound off: these warnings are never ignored. It is time to warn
   politicians that if they do not respect the Bill of Rights they
   should at least fear the wrath of the People. Congress is forcing the
   country into a civil war.

   A group in Tampa that claims alignment with a national "patriot
   movement" has ordered four judges and several Hillsborough County
   officials, including the tax collector, to give themselves up for
   arrest to the group's so-called Constitutional Court. Founder of the
   group, Emilio Ippolito, and his daughter, Susan Mokdad, reportedly
   said they have an unarmed militia composed of volunteers to execute
   the Constitutional Court's orders. Subsequently, Ed Brown, an
   activist with an armed militia group in New Hampshire, contacted
   Florida law enforcement authorities, prosecutors' offices and the
   Florida Bar Association to express support for Ippolito's court.



Idaho

   As in other parts of the country, the recent rise of militias in
   Idaho can be linked to four events: the Randy Weaver siege, the Waco
   disaster, the passage of the Brady Law and the federal anti-crime
   law. Idaho militias identify particularly closely with the Weaver
   incident because it took place inside the state and because some key
   militia figures in the region were allied with Weaver and indeed
   participated in the events surrounding the siege.

   Samuel Sherwood, an Idaho militia leader, has recruited hundreds of
   Idahoans into his United States Militia Association. At a July
   meeting in Blackfoot, Idaho, Sherwood reportedly told potential
   recruits that President Clinton's crime bill authorized the
   government to hire 100,000 former Royal Hong Kong police to come to
   America to enforce gun control laws. As of August 1991, Sherwood's
   association has organized militias in at least a dozen of Idaho's
   counties.

   Sherwood's recruitment campaign has met with opposition from law
   enforcement officials. The Tri-County Sheriff's Association,
   representing 16 eastern Idaho counties, has passed a resolution
   against the formation of militias. Greg Moffat, Madison County
   Sheriff and the leader of the association, has asserted that they
   would "give absolutely no support to the idea of a militia."



  BO GRITZ

   Although his current project is not strictly speaking the formation
   of militias, Bo Gritz's activity closely parallels the militia
   movement. Gritz, the 1992 Populist Party candidate for president, is
   a former Green Beret, well-known for conducting SPIKE (Specially
   Prepared Individuals for Key Events) training throughout the region,
   preparing participants in weapons and survival techniques.

   Gritz is currently creating an armed community on a 200-acre piece of
   land in Central Idaho known as "Almost Heaven." He purchased the land
   and is now selling it in lots. A second community called "Shenandoah"
   is also planned nearby. Gritz plans to live at Almost Heaven with 30
   other families in a self-sufficient community which he has said will
   obey all laws "unless they go against the laws of God and common
   sense." Through rigorous military training, Gritz plans to prepare
   his followers to prevent the government from making any attempts to
   intrude: "I want a community where if the F.B.I. looks at us, they'll
   end up saying it's more trouble than it's worth."

   Gritz derives much of his support from his opposition to the federal
   government s actions in the Weaver and Waco cases. He himself was
   present at the Weaver standoff and assisted Weaver in surrendering to
   the authorities. Gritz recently wrote in his newsletter, "The tyrants
   who ordered the assault on the Weavers and Waco should be tried and
   executed as traitors." But Gritz's extremist views go beyond
   opposition to certain government policies. For example, in his book,
   Called To Serve, he peddles the anti-Semitic myth that Jewish
   families control the Federal Reserve System.



Indiana

   Indianapolis is the home base of Linda Thompson, an influential
   figure in the militia movement nationally. Thompson is a lawyer and
   chairman of the American Justice Federation, which describes itself
   as "a group dedicated to stopping the New World Order and getting the
   truth out to the American public." Thompson claims to have contact
   with militias in all 50 states. She appears frequently at militia
   gatherings and gun shows, to lecture and sell her videos "Waco, The
   Big Lie," and "Waco II - The Big Lie Continues." The latter, she
   claims, "proves conclusively the government murdered 100 men, women
   and children at Mt. Carmel in April, 1993." She also sells other
   propaganda material such as "The Traitor Files," which purport to
   link "Bill and Hillary Clinton to a Marxist-Terrorist network."

   On July 13, 1991, Thompson was arrested in Indianapolis for using her
   vehicle to block a bus carrying supporters of President Clinton's
   health care plan. She was charged with obstructing traffic. At the
   time of her arrest police officers seized from her person a
   .45-caliber pistol and a .22-caliber Derringer pistol. They also
   found in her vehicle an assault rifle with 295 rounds of ammunition.
   Her case is pending.

   Thompson's most ambitious undertaking to date was a planned militia
   march on Washington. D.C., on September 19, 1994, where an ultimatum
   was to be delivered to the government. The ultimatum commanded
   members of Congress to initiate legislation that would, among other
   things, repeal the 14th, 16th and 17th Amendments to the
   Constitution. and the Brady Law and NAFTA. Designating herself
   "Acting Adjutant General." of the "Unorganized Militia of the United
   States." Thompson ordered all participants to come "armed and in
   uniform." She announced that, besides delivering the ultimatum, "The
   militia will arrest Congressmen who have failed to uphold their oaths
   of office, who will then be tried for Treason by citizens courts."

   Realizing after several months that support for her march was
   lacking, Thompson called it off, yet her standing in the militia
   movement apparently remains undiminished.

   The John Birch Society, troubled about Thompson's influence on its
   members and staff, found it necessary to warn them against her. On
   May 12, 1994. the Society, issued an official "admonition to all
   members and a directive to all employees" to "stay clear of her
   schemes." They said: "Linda Thompson's call for the arrest in
   September of members of Congress and the President of the United
   States by an armed militia is not just insane, it is contrary to all
   understanding of the nature and identity of the enemy." It appears
   that even by the standards of the John Birch Society, Thompson is too
   radical.

   Meanwhile, Thompson continues to appear at rallies and conferences
   around the country, and on radio, promoting the militia cause and
   calling down thunder upon the American government and its law
   enforcement agencies.

   A rally to form a militia in Indianapolis took place in September
   1994, at a union hall in the south central part of the city. In
   attendance were some 200 persons, filling the hall to capacity, while
   an overflow crowd was turned away.

   A smaller militia is believed to be functioning in Switzerland
   County, in eastern Indiana. The county, long plagued by extremist
   activity, has been the home base of the Northwest Territory Knights
   of the KKK. a Klan splinter group.



Michigan

   The militia movement has gained a following in Michigan. The most
   visible such group in the state has sprung up in northern Michigan.
   Spokesmen there make the (probably exaggerated) claim that militias
   have 10,000 members and that brigades are operating or are currently
   forming in 66 of the state's 83 counties. Meetings reportedly draw 50
   to 100 attendees.

   The issues animating Michigan's militias are the same as those
   fueling the movement nationally. Chief among them is a belief that
   gun control legislation is but a prelude to a complete ban on
   firearms ownership in this country. An essential additional
   ingredient, though, is their conviction that the government intends
   to wage war on citizens who refuse to give up their weapons. They
   cite as evidence for this view the tragic assault on the Branch
   Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. and the 1992 raid on the cabin of
   Randy Weaver in Idaho, in which Weaver's wife and son and a federal
   marshal were killed. They also contend that this same federal
   government is acquiescing in the surrender of U.S. sovereignty to the
   United Nations and other international bodies. The militia's aims are
   to "stand against tyranny, globalism, moral relativism, humanism and
   the New World Order threatening to undermine these United States of
   America."

   Norman E. Olson, 47, a Baptist minister and gun-shop owner in
   Alanson, is the Commander of the 1st Brigade, 2nd Division, Northern
   Michigan Regional Militia. After a few months of discussion and
   recruitment, the group was established in April 1994. It conducts
   training exercises twice a month. At a recent session, weapons
   reportedly included Chinese SKS semi-automatic assault rifles,
   shotguns and deer rifles.

   When residents complained about militia members clad in camouflage
   uniforms and painted faces gathering with their rifles at a village
   park and a public campground in Pellston, the village council banned
   firearms from those and other village sites. Militia commander Olson
   threatened to sue the village for allegedly violating his rights. He
   also announced that his group would no longer convene in the park or
   the campground, saying: "The people of Pellston have got to want the
   light of liberty."

   Olson strenuously denies that the Northern Michigan Regional Militia
   is racist or anti Semitic. He claims some Jewish ancestry, and
   professes admiration for Israel. But his militia's rhetoric on
   occasion has been extreme and alarmist. In reference to the aborted
   march on Washington promoted by Indianapolis militia leader Linda
   Thompson, Olson has written: "Many thousands are prepared to go to
   Washington in uniform, carry their guns, prepared to present the
   ultimatum to the President and to Congress. This may be the beginning
   of a Concord-like confrontation." A militia pamphlet distributed at a
   May meeting in Petoskey attended by some 55 people reportedly asked:
   "What force exists to prevent a state or federally orchestrated
   massacre like the one in Waco from occurring in Michigan?" Ray
   Southwell, a real estate agent who is the group's information
   officer, has said: "I'd guess that within the next two years, you
   will see the Constitution suspended." His further prediction:
   "Christian fundamentalists will be the first to go under fascism this
   time. Just like the Jews were the first last time."

   Southwell speaks as though he regards confrontation with law
   enforcement as inevitable. His militia is preparing for the day "when
   martial law is declared." "We are taking a stand." he says, "and are
   prepared to lose everything."

   Other militia activists in Michigan have had their own encounter with
   the law. Police in Fowlerville (Livingston County) arrested three
   militia members on September 8, 1994. Loaded rifles and handguns, as
   well as gas masks, night-vision binoculars and two-way radios, were
   found in their car. At the men's scheduled September 14 hearing, at
   least two dozen uniformed supporters staged a protest in front of the
   courthouse and stomped on a United Nations flag. The suspects failed
   to appear and are considered fugitives. They were described by their
   supporters as security aides to Mark Koernke (a.k.a. "Mark from
   Michigan"), a former Army intelligence officer whose "America in
   Peril" video and speeches have helped to recruit members to militias
   around the country.

   All the confrontational talk has caught the attention of law
   enforcement authorities. "Some of their material is disquieting
   because it defines the U.S. government as the enemy said a Michigan
   State Police commander. "It is disquieting if people think redress is
   in armed conflict with the U.S. government." The head of the Detroit
   office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms expressed the
   hope "that the militia groups would use the power of the vote rather
   than the threat of armed violent confrontation to accomplish their
   goals."



Missouri

   Militias are active in Missouri but do not appear to be as
   well-organized as in other states. They operate in at least five
   southern Missouri counties: Crawford, Green, Barton, Dade and Cedar,
   and number collectively approximately 130 members. The militias hold
   irregular meetings to view training videos, discuss paramilitary
   techniques and exchange literature reflecting right-wing views.

   Missouri's militias are attempting to organize themselves for
   political action by, among other things, running candidates for local
   office. In keeping with their political aspirations, they have
   attempted to avoid any public identification with more extreme
   groups. although some members also belong to the John Birch Society
   and the Populist Party.



Montana

   Militias have been forming in Montana since February 1991. While the
   rhetoric of these groups focuses on gun control and other familiar
   militia causes, examination reveals that some of the leading figures
   in the Montana militia movement have also participated in the
   activities of racist and anti-Semitic groups.

   Meetings have been held across the state, drawing as many as 800 at a
   March 10 meeting in Kalispell. Two other meetings there also drew
   over 150 participants. Similar gatherings held in Hamilton, Eureka,
   Big Timber and Great Falls drew over 200 participants each. Smaller
   numbers attended meetings in Sanders County, Billings and Troy. While
   the crowds at initial meetings have been large, they have tended to
   fall off somewhat at subsequent gatherings.

   Montana militias often dwell on the state's history as an independent
   outpost of freedom. A recent militia newsletter quoted, with
   approval, Gary Marbut, president of The Montana Shooting Sports
   Association (an anti-gun control group) in a call for rejection of
   all federal control over the state:

   Montanans are fed up with the federal government dictating to Montana
   and the people of Montana and we are through with Congress's
   increasing encroachment on the Bill of Rights. We have a thirst for
   freedom in Montana, and we simply will not subsist under the boot
   heel of federal tyranny. There may be some debate about what the
   Second Amendment means to the U.S. Supreme Court or the people of
   Peoria, but there is no question about what the Second Amendment
   means to the people of Montana. "The great purpose" as Patrick Henry
   said, "is that every man be armed."



  MILITIA OF MONTANA

   The Militia of Montana (M.O.M.) is among the most visible and the
   most extreme of such groups in the country. M.O.M. is run in Noxon,
   Montana by the Trochmann brothers, John and David and David's son
   Randy. all of whom have long been involved in the white supremacist
   movement. The Trochmanns have been members of the Aryan Nations, the
   Idaho based neo-Nazi organization that promotes anti-Semitism, white
   supremacy and the establishment of a white racist state. John
   Trochmann was a featured speaker at the Aryan Nations Congress in
   1990. He has also been an active supporter of Randy Weaver, the white
   supremacist who was involved in a shoot-out with federal authorities.
   Some members of M.O.M. circulate neo-Nazi publications among
   themselves. One such book, Seed of the Woman, is a "novel" detailing
   the wild exploits of several young neo-Nazis in a contemporary
   America peopled by gross stereotypes. Its favorable depiction of
   Nazi-inspired slaughter and its promotion of Nazi doctrine make it a
   prescription for violence against Jews, blacks. homosexuals and
   others.

   M.O.M.'s eight-page pamphlet. "The Militia," discusses the history of
   militias and their origin in the United States, arguing that the
   Second Amendment was intended to allow the citizens to form
   "unorganized" militias in order to protect themselves from a
   potentially tyrannical government. It outlines the militia's role as
   follows:

   To balance the military power of the nation with the might of the
   militia will put at odds any scheme by government officials to use
   the force of the government against the people. Therefore, when the
   codes and statutes are unjust for the majority of the people, the
   people will rightly revolt and the government will have to acquiesce
   without a shot being fired, because the militia stands vigilant in
   carrying out the will of the people in defense of rights, liberty and
   freedom.

   The purpose of government is in the protection of the rights of the
   people, when it does not accomplish this, the militia is the crusader
   who steps forward, and upon it rests the mantle of the rights of the
   people. (sic)

   Displaying the group s attitude towards taking up arms, John
   Trochmann recently said: "We don't want bloodshed. We want to use the
   ballot box and the jury box. We don't want to go to the cartridge
   box. But we will if we have to."

   M.O.M.'s newsletter, Taking Aim, details the ways that the government
   is currently failing to protect the rights of the people. It cites
   gun control and the crime bill as evidence of this, but also suggests
   a variety of conspiracy theories about plans by world leaders to
   implement a world government. M.O.M. plays to paranoid fears by
   making wild claims about the supposed activity of foreign military
   troops in Montana and across the country. One report on the activity
   of out-of-state troops brought in to fight forest fires concludes:
   "One more note: Mysterious deaths have been taking place since these
   troops appeared. Coincidence? We do not know." While the newsletter
   does not echo the racist ideology of the Trochmanns, it makes a
   homophobic slur in alluding to rumors regarding Attorney General
   Janet Reno's sexual orientation.

   M.O.M. advertises and distributes books, tapes and videos that
   provide further "information" on their conspiracy theories. Typical
   of the selection is a video advertised as "The Countdown to History
   (Biochip - Mark of the Beast) UN Police Force, One World Govt., Chip
   implants. All by the year 2000-Totally Documented." Also offered are
   tapes and videos on organizing militias and on survival and combat
   techniques.



  RED BECKMAN

   M. J. "Red" Beckman, an influential figure in the militia movement,
   has a record as an anti-Semite and an anti-tax activist. He recently
   lost a long struggle with the IRS when he was finally evicted from
   his land long after it had been sold to pay for taxes due the
   government. Beckman, like many militia proponents, is a conspiracy
   theorist. He has said that the Federal Reserve Bank, the
   International Monetary Fund and the so-called New World Order are
   conspiring to dominate the world. In his 1984 book, The Church
   Deceived, Beckman proclaimed that the Holocaust was a judgement upon
   the Jews for worshipping Satan. More recently. he appeared on
   KULR-TV, a Montana television station. and repeated his view that
   Jews are worshippers of Satan.



New Hampshire

   New Hampshire law provides for an "unorganized militia" made up of
   all citizens over the age of 18 who are not in the national guard or
   state guard. Militia enthusiasts in New Hampshire have pointed to the
   state's legislation (as well as the Second Amendment to the U.S.
   Constitution) to explain and justify their seemingly oxymoronic
   organization of "unorganized militias." There is nothing to suggest,
   however, that they actually intend to serve according to the spirit
   of the laws by which they justify their own existence. Such laws call
   for the governor of the state to direct members of the "unorganized
   militia" to serve in the National Guard during times of crisis.

   New Hampshire is the home of the Constitution Defense Militia, a
   well-organized group with at least 15 members. It is not known if the
   group engages in paramilitary training or the stockpiling of weapons.


   The group has held meetings at the home of Edward L. Brown of
   Plainsfield. Brown is outspoken in his support of the concept of
   militias and devotes much of his time and energy to the causes
   embraced by them: opposition to gun control, the United Nations and
   the federal government. He recently lobbied against a bill that would
   ban guns in school zones, for example.

   While much of Brown's activity appeals to mainstream opponents of gun
   control and big government, his enthusiasm for conspiracy theories
   and his reliance on extremist propaganda places him on the far
   reaches of the political spectrum. Brown is a devoted reader of The
   Spotlight, the organ of Liberty Lobby, the best-funded and most
   active anti-Semitic propaganda organization in the United States. In
   a recent telephone call to ADL, Brown acknowledged that he gets his
   information on domestic and international affairs from The Spotlight.
   He recently wrote letters to his Congressman and Senators in
   Washington regarding the alleged build-up of hostile foreign troops
   inside the United States. Other members of his militia reportedly
   also embrace conspiracy fantasies involving the Council on Foreign
   Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and the Rockefeller Foundation.


   At a recent meeting of the group, members expressed their admiration
   for two extremist figures: Bo Gritz and Linda Thompson (see the
   sections of this report on Idaho and Indiana). The group has been in
   contact with Gritz regarding the organization of militias.

New Mexico

   As in neighboring Arizona, the organization of militias in New Mexico
   is in the nascent stages. Thus far, the most visible manifestation of
   pro-militia sentiment in New Mexico has been found in The Free
   American, a monthly newspaper published privately by Clayton R.
   Douglas and his wife, Jan Douglas. The September 1994 issue contained
   an advertisement declaring: "It's Time To Take Matters Into Our Own
   Hands. It's Time To Protect Our Constitution! Join The New Mexico
   Unorganized Militia." The accompanying phone number for more
   information was the number of the newspaper itself.

   The militia movement appears to be taking hold in Catron County, an
   area that in recent years has experienced much anti-federal
   government sentiment among some residents. Among the groups
   attempting to organize a local militia are "Concerned Citizens" and
   the "Patriots of Catron County."

   Finally, literature from Linda Thompson's (see Indiana section)
   "Unorganized Militias of the United States." has been distributed
   through gun shops in Albuquerque.



North Carolina

   North Carolina's militia movement has been fueled by an alarmist
   vision of a U.S. government bent on the destruction of American
   liberties.

   A Monroe-based group called Citizens for the Reinstatement of
   Constitutional Government has coalesced around Albert Esposito. He
   denies that he is preaching revolution, but his rhetoric includes
   clear overtones of preparation for battle with the imagined enemy. He
   urges the group to amass caches of the "Four B's": Bibles, bullets,
   beans and bandages. Many members own semiautomatic weapons, including
   AR-15's and AK-47s.

   The group's program is a mixture of anti-government, religious and
   conspiratorial ideas. It aims to "make the Holy Bible and the United
   States Constitution the law of the land." and it vows to "resist the
   coming New World Order (one world government)." To accomplish its
   goals, it promises to "Remove treasonous politicians and corrupt
   judges from positions of authority, and return authority to the
   people." (Precisely how these malefactors are to be removed from
   office is not slated.)

   Citizens for the Reinstatement of Constitutional Government meets
   twice a month, alternating between Monroe, in Union County, and
   Matthews, in neighboring Mecklenburg County. At one meeting,
   Esposito, a 43-year-old contractor, reportedly repeated G. Gordon
   Liddy's alleged statement about the new crime law's assault weapons
   ban: "He said. If they pass it, don't obey it. And if they come after
   you, meet force with force."

   The group has distributed application forms for the "National Free
   and Sovereign Civilian Militia, North Carolina state Division." The
   forms ask applicants whether they are proficient in the operation of
   handguns and rifles. "reloading ammo," and a variety of survivalist
   skills.

   Esposito has espoused his views on guns at Union County
   commissioners' meetings. He also railed against federal encroachment
   in announcing his support for a nonbinding resolution passed by the
   commission in support of school prayer. Holding a copy of the
   Constitution in the air, he declared: "We control the county. Not
   Washington."

   Consistent with such anti-federal government views, Esposito says he
   has refused to file federal income tax returns for three years
   running because he regards the tax as unconstitutional.

   The group he leads split off from a tax-protest group in Charlotte
   called the Carolina Patriots, three of whose leaders were convicted
   in October 1994 of conspiracy to help people avoid their tax
   obligations. Esposito's group has attempted to distance itself from
   the Carolina Patriots.

   In addition to their views on guns and taxes, members of the Monroe
   group have expressed ideas and conspiracy theories that are
   characteristic of some other militias around the country. These
   include charges that the Federal Reserve system has enriched a tiny
   elite (the group's literature advocates the abolition of the Federal
   Reserve), and that some government employees have been implanted with
   computer chips in order to monitor the citizenry. Another claim made
   at one of the group's meetings, that the government cannot require
   private citizens to obtain a driver's license, echoes the stand of an
   earlier extremist group, the Posse Comitatus.

   A separate North Carolina militia group has been formed in
   Greenville, in the eastern part of the state. Led by Scott Brown, the
   unit is part of the Idaho-based United States Militia Association.
   Brown reportedly has said his group worries that government
   representatives "don't really understand what the Constitution means
   and stands for, and they're voting away our unalienable rights." It
   is not known whether the Greenville unit is engaging in any more
   incendiary rhetoric or activity. But this fear -- which is apparently
   spreading and growing -- that the government is a threat to the
   rights of the people, is a central theme that militia groups are
   feverishly trying to exploit.

   A computer bulletin board in Alamance County, called "The Spirit of
   '76." has served as an area recruiting point for the militia led by
   Linda Thompson, the Indianapolis woman who is a leading figure in the
   militia movement nationwide. Another bulletin board system that made
   Thompson's computerized materials available has referred individuals
   interested in joining the militia to The Spirit of '76. For its part,
   The Spirit of '76 has declared itself off limits to police and other
   government authorities by posting a warning that states: "This BBS
   [bulletin board system] is a PRIVATE system. Only private citizens
   who are NOT involved in government or law enforcement activities are
   authorized to use it."



Ohio

   Several militia-like groups have arisen in scattered communities in
   the State of Ohio. One such militia has been meeting and conducting
   paramilitary training exercises in Pike County in rural south central
   Ohio. There is overlapping participation, and a weapons-sales
   connection, among the Pike County militia, the neo-Nazi SS Action
   Group and the Ku Klux Klan.

   Other militia groups have arisen in Franklin County and Warren
   County. A militia-type group called "Patriots" meets in Cincinnati
   and conducts paramilitary exercises in rural Clermont County.



Virginia

   On July 27 of this year, James Roy Mullins, a founding member of a
   militia-like group called The Blue Ridge Hunt Club, was arrested and
   charged with the possession and sale of a short-barreled rifle and
   unregistered silencers and with facilitating the unlawful purchase of
   a firearm. Ultimately, three other members were also charged with
   firearm offenses. Federal officials said that Mullins had formed the
   club to arm its members in preparation for war with the government.
   The cases are pending.

   The group, formed earlier in 1994, has had as many as 15 members.
   They are said to have met three times before Mullins' arrest. While
   members of the group say that their purpose is to lobby against gun
   control laws, federal law enforcement officials tell a much different
   story. An ATF official who investigated the case said that "Mullins
   is organizing a group of confederates, to be armed and trained in
   paramilitary fashion, in preparation for armed conflict with
   government authorities should firearms legislation become too
   restrictive." Evidence of such preparation is substantial. In
   searches of members' homes and storage facilities, federal agents
   found a stockpile of weapons. In Mullins' home, agents found 13 guns,
   several of which had homemade silencers. They also found explosives,
   hand grenades, fuses and blasting caps in a separate warehouse.

   Even pretrial incarceration has not stopped Mullins from threatening
   violence. While in jail, he wrote a letter to a friend saying that he
   wanted to borrow a machine gun in order to "take care of unfinished
   business" with certain prosecution witnesses.

   The strongest indications of the group's goals was the draft of a
   portion of its newsletter found on a computer disk obtained by
   federal agents. On the disk, Mullins had written:

   Hit and run tactics will be our method of fighting... We will destroy
   targets such as telephone relay centers, bridges, fuel storage tanks,
   communications towers, radio stations, airports. etc... human targets
   will be engaged ... when it is beneficial to the cause to eliminate
   particular individuals who oppose us (troops. police, political
   figures, snitches, etc.).

   An ATF official also said that Mullins was planning to arm the group
   by burglarizing the National Guard Armory in Pulaski, Virginia.



Conclusion

   Given the revolutionary posturing of so many of the militias, and the
   role in them of hatemongers of long standing, the better part of
   wisdom dictates that close attention be paid to them. There is a role
   here for the press and for citizen organizations that monitor
   extremism. The Anti-Defamation League is pledged to do its part.

   The chief responsibility for keeping on top of the militia threat,
   however, plainly rests with the law enforcement branch of government.
   That this responsibility must be implemented with all due respect for
   the legal rights to which everyone is entitled should go without
   saying. Law enforcement agencies need the requisite resources to
   monitor these groups and to take appropriate measures, when
   necessary, to protect the public.

   One such tool is paramilitary training legislation already on the
   books of many states. Those laws (many patterned after a model bill
   first formulated by ADL, which is appended to this report) should be
   applied, where appropriate. In states where such laws have yet to be
   adopted, ADL urges that they be given prompt consideration.

   The right to hold and promote one's views on the issues which are
   agitating the militias -- such as gun control, the environment, and
   abortion -- is inviolate under the Constitution. There is no right,
   however, to use force or violence either to impose one's views on
   others or to resist laws properly enacted. That is the crux of the
   problem presented by the rise of the militias.

Appendix

   ADL MODEL PARAMILITARY TRAINING STATUTE

   A. (1) Whoever teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use,
   application, or making of any firearm, explosive or incendiary
   device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons,
   knowing or having reason to know or intending that same will be
   unlawfully employed for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil
   disorder; or

   (2) Whoever assembles with one or more persons for the purpose of
   training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any
   firearm, explosive or incendiary device, or technique capable of
   causing injury or death to persons, intending to employ unlawfully
   the same for use in, or in furtherance of, a civil disorder, shall be
   fined not more than ___ or imprisoned not more than ___ years, or
   both.

   B. Nothing contained in this section shall make unlawful any act of
   any law enforcement officer which is performed in the lawful
   performance of his official duties.

   C. As used in this section:

   (1) The term "civil disorder" means any public disturbance involving
   acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which
   causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the
   property or person of any other individual.

   (2) The term "firearm" means any weapon which is designed to or may
   readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an
   explosive; or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

   (3) The term "explosive or incendiary device" means (a) dynamite and
   all other forms of high explosives, (b) any explosive bomb, grenade,
   missile, or similar device and (c) any incendiary bomb or grenade,
   fire bomb, or similar device, including any device which (i) consists
   of or includes a breakable container including a flammable liquid or
   compound, and a wick composed of any material which, when ignited, is
   capable of igniting such flammable liquid or compound. and (ii) can
   be carried or thrown by one individual acting alone.

   (4) The term "law enforcement officer" means any officer or employee
   of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a
   state, or the District of Columbia, and such term shall specifically
   include, but shall not be limited to, members of the National Guard,
   as defined in section 101(9) of title 10, United States Code, members
   of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United
   States, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia,
   not included within the definition of National Guard as defined by
   such section 101(9), and members of the Armed Forces of the United
   States.



Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith





NATIONAL OFFICE
823 United Nations Plaza, New York, NY 10017                (212) 490-2525
WASHINGTON OFFICE
1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. (Suite 1020),
Washington, D.C. 20036                                      (202) 452-8320

REGIONAL OFFICES
ALBUQUERQUE
P.O. Box 21639, Albuquerque, NM 87154                       (505) 843-2712

ARIZONA
The First Interstate Tower, 3550 North Central Avenue (Suite 914)
Phoenix, AZ 85012                                           (602) 274-0991

ATLANTA (Southeast)
One Securities Centre, 3490 Piedmont Road, N.E. (Suite 610),
 Atlanta, GA 30305                                          (404) 262-3470

BOSTON (New England)
1 Lincoln Plaza (Suite 301), Boston MA 02111                (617) 330-9696

CHICAGO (Greater Chicago/Wisconsin)
309 West Washington (Suite 750), Chicago, IL 60606          (312) 782-5080

CLEVELAND (Northern Ohio)
505 Terminal Tower, Cleveland, OH 44113                     (216) 579-9600

COLUMBUS (Ohio/Indiana/Kentucky)
42 East Gay St. (Suite 814), Columbus, OH 43215             (614) 621-0601

CONNECTICUT
419 Whalley Avenue, New Haven, CT 06511                     (203) 787-4281

DALLAS (Northwest Texas/Oklahoma)
12800 Hillcrest Road (Suite 219), Dallas, TX 75230          (214) 960-0342

D.C. (D.C./Maryland)
1100 Connecticut Avenue, N.W. (Suite 1020),
Washington, D.C. 20036                                      (202) 452-8310

DENVER (Mountain States)
300 South Dahlia Street (Suite 202), Devner, CO 80222       (303) 321-7177

DETROIT (Michigan)
4000 Town Center (Suite 420), Southfield, MI 48075-1405     (810) 355-3730

HOUSTON (Southwest)
4635 Southwest Freeway (Suite 400), Houston, TX 77027       (713) 627-3490

LOS ANGELES (Pacific Southwest)
10495 Santa Monica Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90025         (310) 446-8000


MIAMI (Florida)
150 SE Second Avenue (Suite 800), Miami, FL 33131           (305) 373-6306

NEW JERSEY
741 Northfield Avenue, West Orange, NJ 07052                (201) 669-9700

NEW ORLEANS (South Central)
925 Common Street (Suite 975), New Orleans, LA 70112        (504) 522-9534

NEW YORK CITY (New York City, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, and Long Island)
823 U.N. Plaza, New York, NY 10017                          (212) 490-2525

NEW YORK STATE
125 Wolf Rd. (Suite 504), Albany, NY 12205                  (518) 446-0038

OMAHA (Plains States)
333 South 132 Street, Omaha, NE 68154                       (402) 333-1303

ORANGE COUNTY
2700 North Main Street (Suite 500), Santa Ana, CA 92701     (714) 973-4733

PALM BEACH COUNTY
The Commerce Center, 324 Datura Street (Suite 223)
West Palm Beach, FL 33401                                   (407) 832-7144

PHILADELPHIA (Eastern Pennsylvania/Delaware)
230 South Broad Street, 20th Floor, Philadelphia, PA 19102  (215) 735-4267

SAN DIEGO
7851 Mission Center Court (Suite 320), San Diego, CA 92108  (619) 293-3770

SAN FERNANDO VALLEY
22622 Vanowen Street, West Hills, CA 91307                  (818) 587-3220

SAN FRANCISCO (Central Pacific)
720 Market Street (Suite 800), San Francisco, CA 94102-2501 (415) 981-3500

SEATTLE (Pacific Northwest)
Plaza 600 Building (Suite 720), 600 Stewart Street,
Seattle, WA 98101                                           (206) 448-5349

ST. LOUIS (Missouri/Southern Illinois)
10926 Schuetz Road, St. Louis, MO 63146                     (314) 432-6868

VIRGINIA/NORTH CARLONIA
6330 Newtown Rd. (Suite 326), Norfolk, VA 23502             (804) 455-9002

OVERSEAS OFFICES
JERUSALEM
30 King David Street, Jerusalem, Israel 94101            011-972-2-251-171

CANADA
Cooperative Association with the League for Human Rights of Canadian
B'nai Brith
15 Hove Street (Suite 210), Downsview,
Ontario, Canada, M3H4Y

   
     _________________________________________________________________


Article 34528 of misc.activism.militia:
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 96 23:33:14 GMT
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Subject: Re: FBI investigates Perot re Norm Olson
Lines: 39


In article <841331885$25913@atype.com>, alain@e-sense.net (Alain Simon)
writes:

>In article <841162181$17979@atype.com>,
>rarpol@aol.com (RARPOL) 
>tells us about the Perot administration:
>
>>  Olson as Veep, John Trochmann as SecState, Randy Trochmann as SecDef,
>>  Linda THompson as AG, Gene Schroeder as SecTreas, and Dave Cinege as
head
>>  of the Peace Corps.  Now there's an administration to remember!
>
>      Thankfully we won't have to... on the other hand, the top two
>contending
>      would be wannabees don't look too hot either.

I don't think an incumbent president can be counted as a wannabe.
>
>>  No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
>>  questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps,
or
>>  otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the
production of
>>  this post. 
>
>      yes, but think about all the elctrons who have been coerced into
>forming
>      patterns representing thoughts which they don't necessarily agree
with!

You are too scientific for me!

Randy Ragsdale (rarpol@aol.com)

No animals or human beings were killed, injured, maimed, detained for
questioning, arrested, oppressed, deported, sent to detention camps, or
otherwise deprived of their constitutional rights during the production of
this post. 


Article 34570 of misc.activism.militia:
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Newsgroups: misc.activism.militia
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 96 17:36:16 GMT
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Subject: The Rally That Never Was...
Lines: 73


I must admit I was seriously disappointed by the entire Liberty Rally.  I
had gone with high hopes for an improvement over the last two years but,
unfortunately, such was not to be the case.  Saturday was largely a wash,
due at least in part to the number of folks who stayed home waiting to see
which way the hurricane was going to go.  Best estimate of attendance at
any one time on Saturday would be about 500 people including a couple of
undercover cops, various recon elements from left wing organizations
(ladies the skirt and sandles were a give away even if you hadn't
obviously been memorizing signs and faces - the fact that your friend was
making recon sketches didn't do much for your cover, either), a couple of
Taiwanese intelligence types who seemed genuinely puzzled by the entire
situation (their Japanese counterparts showed up Sunday, with a similar
reaction) and two c.i. recruiters who had a rather frustrating day trying
to start something and discovering nobody was really interested in
listening to them.

I heard NO libertarian speakers at all on Saturday, and, again
unfortunately, Linda Thompson and company were about average for the
entire afternoon.  Gordon Liddy cancelled, after failed negotiations with
the rally organizers (he refused to appear in the same venue as LT and the
various other alt.conspiracy addicts), so the only positive rally note
from my perspective was that I enjoy Carl Klang's music, and this is the
first opportunity I've gotten to hear him perform live.  I left for the
evening hoping against hope that the organizers had simply filtered all of
the conspiracy wackos back to Saturday, in order to clear the venue for
more mainstream speakers on Sunday.

Unfortunately Sunday proved my optimism to be entirely unwarranted.  Yes,
there were a few folks like J.J. Johnson, and State Senator Duke who did
get to speak, but they were a distinct minority.  The majority of the
speakers Sunday once again fell into the "everything in the known universe
is a conspiracy" category.  Attendance was up (about 1200-1500 or there
abouts) as was surveillance (LARGE unmarked motor home parked at an angle
that gave good visibility of both the crowd and the backstage area).  A
highlight of the entire afternoon was actually having some of the east
coast folks show up with their unit standards and simply 'show the flag'. 
The militia folks from these units provided a calm, positive presence
which directly contrasted with the frenetic nonsense of some of the
conspiracy-types who seemed to be doing their level best to offend
everyone external to their own group.

Recon on the way in Sunday had revealed a much stronger police presence,
including backup units stationed about 5 blocks away on C Street.  We
wondered about this, as well as about the increased media presence, which
seemed as intent on finding background footage as interviewing [kudos, to
the various news crews, by the way, for being sensitive to people who did
*not* want their pictures taken]  ...in other words it looked like they
were waiting for something to happen.  Along about 2 p.m., something did. 
It seems that person or persons unknown had paid for a radical Pan-African
(i.e. African-American group advocating Black movement back to Africa) to
fly up to the rally with an indication that they would be scheduled to
speak.  This had been done without the knowledge of the organizing
committee who, unfortunately, freaked when the Pan-Africans showed up. 
Despite several attempts at negotiation, both the committee and the
Pan-Africans immediately developed defensive attitudes which effectively
blocked constructive resolution of the issue.  A BIG note of thanks to our
own Bob Ireland for attempting first to keep the dialog going in a
rational direction, and failing that, to embarass the committee into
allowing the Pan-Africans to speak on First Ammendment grounds.  While his
efforts ultimately proved futile, he did elicit both the information
concerning the origins of the group and their travel to DC, as well as the
very obvious lack of interest on the part of the committee in even a
cursory appearance of equal respect for the rights of those *not* in their
immediate constituency. All in all, it was *not* a good day to be a
libertarian at the rally.
[Note to the fed in the red shirt - I know you were a little preoccupied,
but at least one or two of the news cameras got shots with you in the
background materializing your radio out of the front of your shirt...just
thought you'd want to know.  Note to the motorcycle cop holding the riot
baton behind his back - a. you weren't fooling anybody, and b. your
partner wasn't covering your back, he was watching  the main confrontation
just as much as you were...you guys need to work on that.]


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AHABIZ wrote:
> 
> I must admit I was seriously disappointed by the entire Liberty Rally.  I
> had gone with high hopes for an improvement over the last two years but,
> unfortunately, such was not to be the case.  Saturday was largely a wash,
> due at least in part to the number of folks who stayed home waiting to see
> which way the hurricane was going to go.  Best estimate of attendance at
> any one time on Saturday would be about 500 people including a couple of
> undercover cops, various recon elements from left wing organizations
> (ladies the skirt and sandles were a give away even if you hadn't
> obviously been memorizing signs and faces - the fact that your friend was
> making recon sketches didn't do much for your cover, either), a couple of
> Taiwanese intelligence types who seemed genuinely puzzled by the entire
> situation (their Japanese counterparts showed up Sunday, with a similar
> reaction) and two c.i. recruiters who had a rather frustrating day trying
> to start something and discovering nobody was really interested in
> listening to them.

Yes. I was there Saturday, and did note that the field was largely taken
by either assorted conspiracy-theorists, a few doddering senescents,
baffled mainstream tourists, and the few foreigners who wandered through
did seem to be completely baffled by the prospect of a demonstration
whose main theme seemed to be isolationism and border-control in the
largest net-trader of international goods. A few baffled international
tourists were at an obvious loss to understand the general unfailing
politeness to our valued visitors from abroad, coupled with a vehement
and vocal stated generic distrust of illegal-aliens.

BTW, skirts and sandals are, and have been for years, the "colorful
native garb" of any local female headed to the Mall for a day of unknown
heat and humidity. 

> 
> I heard NO libertarian speakers at all on Saturday, and, again
> unfortunately, Linda Thompson and company were about average for the
> entire afternoon.  Gordon Liddy cancelled, after failed negotiations with
> the rally organizers (he refused to appear in the same venue as LT and the
> various other alt.conspiracy addicts), so the only positive rally note
> from my perspective was that I enjoy Carl Klang's music, and this is the
> first opportunity I've gotten to hear him perform live.  I left for the
> evening hoping against hope that the organizers had simply filtered all of
> the conspiracy wackos back to Saturday, in order to clear the venue for
> more mainstream speakers on Sunday.
> 
> Unfortunately Sunday proved my optimism to be entirely unwarranted.  Yes,
> there were a few folks like J.J. Johnson, and State Senator Duke who did
> get to speak, but they were a distinct minority.  The majority of the
> speakers Sunday once again fell into the "everything in the known universe
> is a conspiracy" category.  Attendance was up (about 1200-1500 or there
> abouts) as was surveillance (LARGE unmarked motor home parked at an angle
> that gave good visibility of both the crowd and the backstage area).  A
> highlight of the entire afternoon was actually having some of the east
> coast folks show up with their unit standards and simply 'show the flag'.
> The militia folks from these units provided a calm, positive presence
> which directly contrasted with the frenetic nonsense of some of the
> conspiracy-types who seemed to be doing their level best to offend
> everyone external to their own group.

On Saturday, they damned sure offended me enough so that I was damned if
I would add to their body count on Sunday.

> 
> Recon on the way in Sunday had revealed a much stronger police presence,
> including backup units stationed about 5 blocks away on C Street.  We
> wondered about this, as well as about the increased media presence, which
> seemed as intent on finding background footage as interviewing [kudos, to
> the various news crews, by the way, for being sensitive to people who did
> *not* want their pictures taken]  ...in other words it looked like they
> were waiting for something to happen.  Along about 2 p.m., something did.
> It seems that person or persons unknown had paid for a radical Pan-African
> (i.e. African-American group advocating Black movement back to Africa) to
> fly up to the rally with an indication that they would be scheduled to
> speak.  This had been done without the knowledge of the organizing
> committee who, unfortunately, freaked when the Pan-Africans showed up.
> Despite several attempts at negotiation, both the committee and the
> Pan-Africans immediately developed defensive attitudes which effectively
> blocked constructive resolution of the issue.  A BIG note of thanks to our
> own Bob Ireland for attempting first to keep the dialog going in a
> rational direction, and failing that, to embarass the committee into
> allowing the Pan-Africans to speak on First Ammendment grounds.  While his
> efforts ultimately proved futile, he did elicit both the information
> concerning the origins of the group and their travel to DC, as well as the
> very obvious lack of interest on the part of the committee in even a
> cursory appearance of equal respect for the rights of those *not* in their
> immediate constituency. All in all, it was *not* a good day to be a
> libertarian at the rally.

Yes. I myself was struck nearly dumb (and I am a verbose person!) by the
inconsistency of a tacit yet forceful intolerance among
"Constitutionalists" regarding allowing opposing viewpoints to be heard,
even when those "opposing viewpoints" (mine) were simply slightly
heretical revisionisms spoken quietly to a few of those booth-holders
with whose positions I most agreed.

> [Note to the fed in the red shirt - I know you were a little preoccupied,
> but at least one or two of the news cameras got shots with you in the
> background materializing your radio out of the front of your shirt...just
> thought you'd want to know.  Note to the motorcycle cop holding the riot
> baton behind his back - a. you weren't fooling anybody, and b. your
> partner wasn't covering your back, he was watching  the main confrontation
> just as much as you were...you guys need to work on that.]

A note to you... Washington DC is served by Sprint Spectrum digital
mobilephones, and they are small compact devices which greatly resemble
a federals's comlink. It must also be noted that all bicycle messengers
carry similar two-way units, and there are quite a few of them in town.
There are at least fifteen communities of which I am aware which are
always carrying their two-ways. Be careful when you form
snap-judgements, you may be making enemies out of allies, and judging
from my experiences Saturday, this is something that _you_ should work
on.


-- 
Be kind to your       | When the going gets weird the weird turn pro.
neighbors even though | http://www.clark.net/pub/klaatu/
they be transgenic    | Now. chock full of uninteresting links.
chimerae.             |-- Genesis 19:1-13 - Hebrews 13:2 -- 
---- In the Fall: http://www.clark.net/pub/klaatu/infall.html ---------
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