The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/s/szaki/2007/szaki.200707


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:02 EDT 2007
Article: 1197806 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: Takes 20 minutes to burn a body to ashes -Hahaha!!!!
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Here are some latest, modern cremation ovens types and the time it takes 
to cremate a body!
JS

http://www.matthewscremation.com/products/humanCremationEquipment.asp
OWER-PAK II

The New Standard

SMOKE-BUSTER™ 140
2 – Hours or Less Cremation Time
Up to 4 Cremations in 8 Hours
*******************************************

SUPER POWER-PAK III

The Next Generation

SMOKE-BUSTER™ 160
90 – Minutes or Less Cremation Time
Up to 10 Cremations in 14 Hours
******************************************

ENER-TEK IV

The Ultimate in Production & Performance

SMOKE-BUSTER™ 190
75 – Minutes or Less Cremation Time
Up to 15 Cremations in 18 Hours
******************************************




In article <3_-dnYdQeYCaOBjbnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Protagonist   wrote:
> 
>    (snip)
> 
>    In its 1975 conference,  the Cremation Society of Great
> Britain reported that the average cremation time of the
> corpse of an adult is about 63 minutes.  This is actually
> reported even in a "revisionist" site,
> http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html.
> 
>    But that is not the entire story.  In the conference,  it
> was also reported that the last 20 minutes of the cremation
> process are required to dispose of a "very very small quantity
> of body material in the shape of chest and lung material".
> Since the SS ordered to insert additional corpses before
> the previous ones were entirely consumed,  they could insert
> them after about 40 minutes.
> 
>    Such considerations,  the use of simultaneous cremation,
> and the fact that the average weight of the victims cremated
> in Auschwitz-Birkenau was considerably smaller than that of
> an adult,  enabled the SS to reach very high cremation rates.
> 
>    For example,  in the Gusen camp crematorium (two muffles),
> a cremation rate of 94 corpses a day was achieved.  The
> crematorium timesheet is cited in the same "revisionist" site
> mentioned above.
> 
> RJ.



From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:02 EDT 2007
Article: 1197807 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: What happens during cremation?
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What happens during cremation?
During cremation, the body is exposed to intense heat (1,400oF to 
2,000oF). Cremation time varies with the size and weight of the body 
being cremated.

A typical time span is one and one-half hours to four hours.

After the cremation is complete, the remains are allowed to cool and 
then are removed from the cremation chamber. All human remains are 
separated from non-human items. The remains are then pulverized and 
placed in a container selected by the authorizing agent. The cremated 
remains appear similar to crushed seashells or egg shells and can weigh 
between four and ten pounds depending upon the size of the body being 
cremated.

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pubs/mt200201.html


RJ11 wrote:
> In article <3_-dnYdQeYCaOBjbnZ2dnUVZ_rzinZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Protagonist   wrote:
> 
>    (snip)
> 
>    In its 1975 conference,  the Cremation Society of Great
> Britain reported that the average cremation time of the
> corpse of an adult is about 63 minutes.  This is actually
> reported even in a "revisionist" site,
> http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html.
> 
>    But that is not the entire story.  In the conference,  it
> was also reported that the last 20 minutes of the cremation
> process are required to dispose of a "very very small quantity
> of body material in the shape of chest and lung material".
> Since the SS ordered to insert additional corpses before
> the previous ones were entirely consumed,  they could insert
> them after about 40 minutes.
> 
>    Such considerations,  the use of simultaneous cremation,
> and the fact that the average weight of the victims cremated
> in Auschwitz-Birkenau was considerably smaller than that of
> an adult,  enabled the SS to reach very high cremation rates.
> 
>    For example,  in the Gusen camp crematorium (two muffles),
> a cremation rate of 94 corpses a day was achieved.  The
> crematorium timesheet is cited in the same "revisionist" site
> mentioned above.
> 
> RJ.


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:02 EDT 2007
Article: 1197892 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1197892
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Subject: Re: What happens during cremation?
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It don't work idiot. You can tailor your Holohoax as much as you want, 
it won't hold water.
Zionist came up up with this 6 million figures, but nothing supports it.
Modern crema can't do 20 minutes / body, never mined some WW2 technology 
  using coal!
JS



RJ11 wrote:
> In article <6_mdnR6Xk5T00xrbnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> Protagonist   wrote:
> 
>    (snip)
> 
>    Please address the points I raised:
> 
>    1.  In standard cremation,  there are considerations which
> were not relevant to the SS,  and whose removal allowed to
> reduce the cremation time.  For example,  an American expert
> on cremation stated "much of the burn time is devoted to breaking
> down and whitening the bones,  because people expect nice white
> remains" (Source:  Steve Looker,  president of  B&L,  a firm which
> manufactures cremation furnaces,  in an interview published in
> "Washington City Paper" Vol.  16 No.  11,  March 1996,  pages
> 20-24).
> 
>    2.  The proceedings of the 1975 conference of the Cremation
> Society of Great Britain report that corpses can be cremated
> in 61 minutes on the average (see graph on page 88).
> 
>    3.  These proceedings also report that the last 20 minutes
> of the cremation process are required to dispose only of a 
> "very very small quantity of body material in the shape of chest
> and lung material" (page 83).
> 
>    4.  The SS ordered that additional corpses be inserted before
> the current ones were entirely consumed (this,  obviously,  is
> not allowed in standard cremation).  See for example the Topf
> manual: 
> 
>    
> 
>    As soon as the remains of the corpses have fallen from
> the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below,  they should
> be pulled forward towards the ash removal door,  using the scraper.
> Here they can be left for a further 20 minutes to be fully consumed,
> then the ashes should be placed in the container and set aside to cool.
> 
>    In the meantime,  further corpses can be introduced one after the
> other into the chambers.
> 
>    
> 
>    (Source:  Auschwitz Museum.  Reproduced in "Auschwitz:  Technique
> and Operation of the Gas Chambers",  J.C Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld
> Foundation,  NY,  1989,  page 136).
> 
>    This shortened the cremation by 20 minutes.  So,  now we're at
> 40 minutes.  But the time was reduced further by the application
> of simultaneous cremation,  which was very effective,  also because
> the weight of the average victim was quite smaller than that of
> an average adult.
> 
> 
>    To summarize:  the application of simultaneous cremation,  the
> insertion of additional corpses before the current ones were consumed,
> the low average weight of the victims,  and bypassing various
> considerations such as the "whitening" of the remains,  allowed
> the SS to very considerably reduce the cremation time.
> 
> RJ.


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:03 EDT 2007
Article: 1198081 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: Why was Lipsdatd refused tenure?
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Joe wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2:17 am, "Binyamin Cramer" 
> wrote:
>> "Joe"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:1183367216.344427.241350@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Jul 1, 10:01 pm, "Binyamin Cramer" 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Anyone know the reasons why Deborah Lipstadt was refused tenure at the
>>>> southern California university where she used to teach?
>>> You can prove this happened?
>> Here's a little tip for you b'luto. Totally free of charge.
>>
>> When a person asks a question, the normal response from those responding is
>> to provide an answer to said question. It is NOT convention to answer a
>> question with a question. Do you understand?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Answer this question: Why has Mars disappeared from the universe?
> 

Mars is still there!
  Only disappeared for ignoramuses like you!
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:04 EDT 2007
Article: 1198622 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1198622 hun.politika:150254
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From: Protagonist 
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Subject: Hungarian Holocust
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http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/3600/hungary.htm

While the Germans and the Hungarians executed the pattisans one by one 
in accordance with the intenational articles of war who ambushed and 
attacked the Hungarian and German soldiers from lofts, the Serbian 
partisans broke with the long procedures the people to be executed were 
10 times more.

Their victitns were bound with wire by tens or by twenties. The 
Hungarians were lined up in front of a common grave dug in advance. Then 
they were shot down by machine pistole or by machine gun from the back. 
This was easier solution that the Hungarians - with death wound on their 
napes - should fall in their final tomb at once. Then it was necessary 
only to cover them with soil.

It seems that the Serbians had plenty of wires. They spared their 
munitions. 15-2O Hungarian men were bound. They were lined up around a 
straw-stack Last two men in the right and left sides of the line were 
strongly bound with wire. When the ring was fixed the straw-Stack was 
lit. The bound men impeded each other in escape. All of them were burnt 
away. Where they had enough time, the Serbian communist partisans 
deprived the selected Hungarian victims from all their twenty finger 
nails with pinchers- Their thirst of revenge was better filled if they 
heated previously the pinchers in a near smithery. It also happened that 
in the smithies the Serbian farriers drove horseshoes into the naked 
sole of the Hungarians. Not every Serbian could endure the horrible 
sights. Some of them vomited themselves during forced fulfillment of the 
command.

Partisan women took part in these atrocities in large numbers.

Hungarian Roman catholic priests and friars who got into their handsreceived

particular attention! In most cases they were undressed. First a 
cross-shaped strap was cut out from the-skin of their back. For the sake 
of more hardened partisan women the sexual organs of the priests were 
taken care. Mostly their testicles were torn by pinchers. There was such 
a woman in these partisan units who stamped on these naked catholic 
reverends, mashed their loins.

In one of the villages, in Bezdan, Hungarian men, driven to a sport 
ground were searched in order to find guns. In the pocket of a boy who 
was 11 years old an empty cartridge was found. The ,,guilty" boy was 
placed to the middle of the empty ground. A touching mine was fixed to 
his leg. The explosive cartridge bound to the leg of the child was shot 
until it exploded and tore the owner of the legs and the cartridge.

The sawmills also gave possibility to use new methods of killing the 
Hungarians. Hands and legs were cut by sawing - machine and the tortured 
Hungarians died as martyrs with violent and long pain! It also happened 
that chopping trunks into firewood gave the sample for the execution. It 
happened that whole family of the Hungarian owner of the sawmill was 
bound in front of the saw-blade and the members of the family were torn 
in two by the sawing-machine started.

Impalement (palo inponere) was used not only in the Roman Empire but 
also appeared in penal practice of the 17th century. It was introduced 
again in the extirpation of the Hungarians by the Serbian partisans to 
Vajdasag and Bacska under the protection of the Soviet Army. In order to 
see clearly the inhuman and bestial revenge, let's study the method of 
impalement used by the Serbian partisans: The bark of the 3 meter long 
oak a pale was removed. If there was enough time a sharp iron was fixed 
by smithies to its pointed tip. The naked pale was made greasy by oil. 
Well in advance a narrow hole was dug into which the ,Fitted" pale would 
be placed. A stick with short halve was the part of the preparations1 too.

The Hungarian to be executed was got down into prone position. A loop of 
rope was cast on both of his ankles and two partisans were pulling his 
feet in two directions. The executioner fitted the tip of the iron-bound 
stake into the anus of the unlucky fellow, then he gripped the stake and 
started to hammer the end of the stake to the aimed direction first with 
gentle hits then more and more strongly. Initial screaming of the 
Hungarian turned into creaking when the stake reached the level of 
shoulderblades. At that time the executioner directed the stake a little 
bit to the right so that the tip should come out from the body of the 
unlucky man bursting the skin of the collar-bone. At this moment the 
thick bottom of the pale was placed into the hole. It was the triumph of 
the Serbian crowd of spectators enjoying the execution if the miserable 
impaled person was sighing for hours and the desperate beatings of his 
heart would be seen on his chest while the dug earth absorbed the blood 
running from his body.

According to the memory vitéz Ferenc Szombathelyi, the chief of staff of 
the Hungarian royal army was executed in this manner who was delivered 
to the Yugoslavian communist government under communist pressure by 
Zoltán Tildy, reformed priest who was the Prime minister collaborating 
with the communists from the Small-holders' party and who was called 
"murderer in cloak" by the Hungarian people.

Places and times of some massacres in Vajdaság together with the number 
of the Hungarian victims:

BEZDÁN 3 November 1944. The Hungarian male inhabitants of the village in 
the age of between l6 and 5O years were driven to a sports ground. 118 
men were shot down by machine pistol to the Danube. 2830 Serbian 
communist partisans who made the murder belonged to the udarna brigade 
No. 12 in the division No. 51. It is strange but the Soviet officers 
were also horrified at the massacre because they were who stopped 
swearing further executions.

ZOMBOR (Sombor) 6 December 1944. The Serbian partisans first had one 
part of their captives dug up to the neck into the earth by other 
captives then they had them trampled to death by tank. The first 
impalement happened here, too. The executions in the villages of Bácska 
Vajdaság were directed by a Serbian communist partisan woman called 
Julka who was wounded mortally in the fights later. At the moment there 
is a thirty meter high granite monument on the mount of Batina and on 
the top of this monument there is the statue of this woman executioner.

UJVIDÉK (Novisad) 23 October 1944. In the early morning hours the 
Serbian partisans under the leadership of Todor Gavrilovics Rilc, 
political commissioner marched in the ancient Hungarian town, in Novisad 
(Újvidék). From the first day they already carried off the Hungarian 
inhabitants to the former winterport of the Danube. This was the center 
of the massacre. Until the execution men were held in prison for weeks. 
Among the captured and executed people there were a lot of 14-15 year 
old boys

as "dangerous fascists". Executions started on 25th October. A drunken 
partisan officer read off 300 names. In a short time only the rattle of 
the machine pistols sounded. Farewell cries of the executed Hungarians 
were suppressed by the racing of the lorries' engine. The Hungarian 
captives got some water and bread only on the fifth day. During the 
first week about 1500 Hungarians were shot down into the Danube: One 
part of the corpses was either burnt or put into common graves in 
several rows. Around 1970 a new highway was built but because of the 
common graves in the Feketics forest the track of the highway was led in 
other way. All the Hungarian students captured in Novisad and its 
surroundings were shot down.

SZENTTAMÁS (Srbobran Turja) In October of 1944 3,000 inhabitants of 
Hungarian nationality were executed by the Serbian communist partisans 
>from the village of 18,000 inhabitants. In the old Serbian cemetery the 
tomb was dug by the persons to be executed and the Hungarians were 
executed in groups of 150-200. An 8-year-old girl was the witness of the 
massacres by chance and unnoticed. The Serbian people next door 
overheard her story and denounced the little girl. Next day the Serbian 
partisans took away the innocent girl and executed her.

SZIVÁC (Sívac) 1st November I944. Seventy-five Hungarian men completely 
undressed were accompanied to the cemetery where they were executed by 
command of Brano Bikicskics Serbian main communist from Szivác.

ADORJÁN (Nadrljan) On 3d December 1944. 56 Hungarian citizens were 
executed on the bank of Tisza.

KANIZSA (St. Kanjiza) On 7th October 1944 Serbian partisan executioners 
arrived following the Soviet troops. In this village the names of the 
offenders entirely remained. First of all every Hungarian women were 
ravished. 300 Hungarians were collected in the village and they were 
closed in the cellar of the town hall, majority of them was beaten to 
death there. The corpses were carried on cart by nights to the island of 
Tisza where they were lying covered by lime for days. Let the names of 
the Serbian communist partisan killers be listed here: Niklo Radovics, 
Szvetozár Knezevics, Alexander Oluski, Dusan Ugranov.

OBECSE (Stari Becej) Killing of the Hungarians began on 9th October 
I944. First Ferenc Petrányi 65 year old catholic abbot was arrested by 
some young communist Serbian partisan girls. A11 parts of his face and 
body were mashed. A partisan woman from Zombor, called Zorka was the 
most brutal. He was bound on a plank by her and then they jumped to his 
belly chest and sexual organ from the table. Zorka and her partisan 
comrades in laced boots practically disemboweled his internal organs. 
When he died on l4th October they threw him out of the window to the 
stone block yard so that his death should seem to be a suicide.

SZENTFÜLOP (B.Gracac) was a pure Hungarian village from the age of the 
Arpads. On 25th November 1944 its whole male population between the age 
of I8-60 years was exterminated. In total 212 men were killed.

TEMERIN (Temerin) October of 1944. Several hundreds people fell victims 
of the Serbian carnage. A Soviet officer prevented the extirpation of 
the whole Hungarian population of the village. Hungarian human loss of 
the village was 480 people.

In MOHOL from October of 1944 the extirpation of the Hungarians went on 
systematically. More than 800 Hungarians were collected and from this 
number 760 were executed. Not only men were killed but also 16-20 year 
old girls were executed. It is strange that in this village the 
communist Serbian partisans close cropped the people going to death. 
Then they were taken to the side of Tisza and they were shot by machine 
gun to the river there.

In CSUROG (Curog) from 23 October the Hungarian inhabitants had been 
exterminated continuously. In 1941 the Serbian partisans in Csurog 
killed a whole gendarme patrol some of them were impaled. Because of 
this as revenge 765 5erbian inhabitants were executed in 1944. 2,000 
people the whole Hungarian population of the village was exterminated.

ZABLYA (Zabalj) in 1942 the Serbian killed 11 Hungarian soldiers in the 
village. Because of this 581 Serbians were executed. Because of the 
extreme revenge, just as it happened in Csurog the competent Hungarian 
commanders were tried by court-marital. The Serbian partisans of Tito 
started to revenge at once after their marching in, in October of 1944. 
The wealthier Hungarians were drowned into the manure of the back house. 
Even 13 year old Hungarian boys were killed, too. In total 2,000 
Hungarian citizens were killed.

In the city of ZOMBOR in October of 1944 the murdering of the Hungarians 
started at once on the basis of the death-list previously made. First 
two Hungarian Carmelite fraters were captured and executed. They were 
frater Gellér Sztancsics and Illés Hollós. The Hungarians were taken to 
the Palace of Kronich. Next to the race-course the common graves were 
dug in which 2,500 Hungarisns were buried. Several other common graves 
can be found in the outside districts of the city. The inhabitants of 
the Hungarian city were fully exterminated. In total 5,650 Hungarians 
were executed.

*

According to data collected by the Roman catholic pastors, Márton Szűcs 
and József Kovács in. the strictest confidence; during the months of 
October, November and December of 1944. 34 491 Hungarians were killed in 
South Hungary in the territory of Bácska and Vajdasag. As the statistics 
were made several years ago according to the data which have been 
discovered since that time the number of the victims exceeds 40,000 per- 
sons. Because of the continuity of the discovering works this number is 
increasing day by day. It is also completed by the number of the 
Hungarian martyrs who lost their life because of the atrocity of 
Serbians after the decay of the Yugoslav communist regime.



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UJVIDÉK (Novisad) 23 October 1944. In the early morning hours the 
Serbian partisans under the leadership of Todor Gavrilovics Rilc, 
political commissioner marched in the ancient Hungarian town, in Novisad 
(Újvidék). From the first day they already carried off the Hungarian 
inhabitants to the former winterport of the Danube. This was the center 
of the massacre. Until the execution men were held in prison for weeks. 
Among the captured and executed people there were a lot of 14-15 year 
old boys as "dangerous fascists". Executions started on 25th October. A 
drunken partisan officer read off 300 names. In a short time only the 
rattle of the machine pistols sounded. Farewell cries of the executed 
Hungarians were suppressed by the racing of the lorries' engine. The 
Hungarian captives got some water and bread only on the fifth day. 
During the first week about 1500 Hungarians were shot down into the 
Danube: One part of the corpses was either burnt or put into common 
graves in several rows. Around 1970 a new highway was built but because 
of the common graves in the Feketics forest the track of the highway was 
led in other way. All the Hungarian students captured in Novisad and its 
surroundings were shot down.


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:05 EDT 2007
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 5, 10:46 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/3600/hungary.htm
>>
>> While the Germans and the Hungarians executed the pattisans one by one
>> in accordance with the intenational articles of war who ambushed and
>> attacked the Hungarian and German soldiers from lofts, the Serbian
>> partisans broke with the long procedures the people to be executed were
>> 10 times more.
>>
>> Their victitns were bound with wire by tens or by twenties. The
>> Hungarians were lined up in front of a common grave dug in advance. Then
>> they were shot down by machine pistole or by machine gun from the back.
>> This was easier solution that the Hungarians - with death wound on their
>> napes - should fall in their final tomb at once. Then it was necessary
>> only to cover them with soil.
>>
>> It seems that the Serbians had plenty of wires. They spared their
>> munitions. 15-2O Hungarian men were bound. They were lined up around a
>> straw-stack Last two men in the right and left sides of the line were
>> strongly bound with wire. When the ring was fixed the straw-Stack was
>> lit. The bound men impeded each other in escape. All of them were burnt
>> away. Where they had enough time, the Serbian communist partisans
>> deprived the selected Hungarian victims from all their twenty finger
>> nails with pinchers- Their thirst of revenge was better filled if they
>> heated previously the pinchers in a near smithery. It also happened that
>> in the smithies the Serbian farriers drove horseshoes into the naked
>> sole of the Hungarians. Not every Serbian could endure the horrible
>> sights. Some of them vomited themselves during forced fulfillment of the
>> command.
>>
>> Partisan women took part in these atrocities in large numbers.
>>
>> Hungarian Roman catholic priests and friars who got into their handsreceived
>>
>> particular attention! In most cases they were undressed. First a
>> cross-shaped strap was cut out from the-skin of their back. For the sake
>> of more hardened partisan women the sexual organs of the priests were
>> taken care. Mostly their testicles were torn by pinchers. There was such
>> a woman in these partisan units who stamped on these naked catholic
>> reverends, mashed their loins.
>>
>> In one of the villages, in Bezdan, Hungarian men, driven to a sport
>> ground were searched in order to find guns. In the pocket of a boy who
>> was 11 years old an empty cartridge was found. The ,,guilty" boy was
>> placed to the middle of the empty ground. A touching mine was fixed to
>> his leg. The explosive cartridge bound to the leg of the child was shot
>> until it exploded and tore the owner of the legs and the cartridge.
>>
>> The sawmills also gave possibility to use new methods of killing the
>> Hungarians. Hands and legs were cut by sawing - machine and the tortured
>> Hungarians died as martyrs with violent and long pain! It also happened
>> that chopping trunks into firewood gave the sample for the execution. It
>> happened that whole family of the Hungarian owner of the sawmill was
>> bound in front of the saw-blade and the members of the family were torn
>> in two by the sawing-machine started.
>>
>> Impalement (palo inponere) was used not only in the Roman Empire but
>> also appeared in penal practice of the 17th century. It was introduced
>> again in the extirpation of the Hungarians by the Serbian partisans to
>> Vajdasag and Bacska under the protection of the Soviet Army. In order to
>> see clearly the inhuman and bestial revenge, let's study the method of
>> impalement used by the Serbian partisans: The bark of the 3 meter long
>> oak a pale was removed. If there was enough time a sharp iron was fixed
>> by smithies to its pointed tip. The naked pale was made greasy by oil.
>> Well in advance a narrow hole was dug into which the ,Fitted" pale would
>> be placed. A stick with short halve was the part of the preparations1 too.
>>
>> The Hungarian to be executed was got down into prone position. A loop of
>> rope was cast on both of his ankles and two partisans were pulling his
>> feet in two directions. The executioner fitted the tip of the iron-bound
>> stake into the anus of the unlucky fellow, then he gripped the stake and
>> started to hammer the end of the stake to the aimed direction first with
>> gentle hits then more and more strongly. Initial screaming of the
>> Hungarian turned into creaking when the stake reached the level of
>> shoulderblades. At that time the executioner directed the stake a little
>> bit to the right so that the tip should come out from the body of the
>> unlucky man bursting the skin of the collar-bone. At this moment the
>> thick bottom of the pale was placed into the hole. It was the triumph of
>> the Serbian crowd of spectators enjoying the execution if the miserable
>> impaled person was sighing for hours and the desperate beatings of his
>> heart would be seen on his chest while the dug earth absorbed the blood
>> running from his body.
>>
>> According to the memory vitéz Ferenc Szombathelyi, the chief of staff of
>> the Hungarian royal army was executed in this manner who was delivered
>> to the Yugoslavian communist government under communist pressure by
>> Zoltán Tildy, reformed priest who was the Prime minister collaborating
>> with the communists from the Small-holders' party and who was called
>> "murderer in cloak" by the Hungarian people.
>>
>> Places and times of some massacres in Vajdaság together with the number
>> of the Hungarian victims:
>>
>> BEZDÁN 3 November 1944. The Hungarian male inhabitants of the village in
>> the age of between l6 and 5O years were driven to a sports ground. 118
>> men were shot down by machine pistol to the Danube. 2830 Serbian
>> communist partisans who made the murder belonged to the udarna brigade
>> No. 12 in the division No. 51. It is strange but the Soviet officers
>> were also horrified at the massacre because they were who stopped
>> swearing further executions.
>>
>> ZOMBOR (Sombor) 6 December 1944. The Serbian partisans first had one
>> part of their captives dug up to the neck into the earth by other
>> captives then they had them trampled to death by tank. The first
>> impalement happened here, too. The executions in the villages of Bácska
>> Vajdaság were directed by a Serbian communist partisan woman called
>> Julka who was wounded mortally in the fights later. At the moment there
>> is a thirty meter high granite monument on the mount of Batina and on
>> the top of this monument there is the statue of this woman executioner.
>>
>> UJVIDÉK (Novisad) 23 October 1944. In the early morning hours the
>> Serbian partisans under the leadership of Todor Gavrilovics Rilc,
>> political commissioner marched in the ancient Hungarian town, in Novisad
>> (Újvidék). From the first day they already carried off the Hungarian
>> inhabitants to the former winterport of the Danube. This was the center
>> of the massacre. Until the execution men were held in prison for weeks.
>> Among the captured and executed people there were a lot of 14-15 year
>> old boys
>>
>> as "dangerous fascists". Executions started on 25th October. A drunken
>> partisan officer read off 300 names. In a short time only the rattle of
>> the machine pistols sounded. Farewell cries of the executed Hungarians
>> were suppressed by the racing of the lorries' engine. The Hungarian
>> captives got some water and bread only on the fifth day. During the
>> first week about 1500 Hungarians were shot down into the Danube: One
>> part of the corpses was either burnt or put into common graves in
>> several rows. Around 1970 a new highway was built but because of the
>> common graves in the Feketics forest the track of the highway was led in
>> other way. All the Hungarian students captured in Novisad and its
>> surroundings were shot down.
>>
>> SZENTTAMÁS (Srbobran Turja) In October of 1944 3,000 inhabitants of
>> Hungarian nationality were executed by the Serbian communist partisans
>> from the village of 18,000 inhabitants. In the old Serbian cemetery the
>> tomb was dug by the persons to be executed and the Hungarians were
>> executed in groups of 150-200. An 8-year-old girl was the witness of the
>> massacres by chance and unnoticed. The Serbian people next door
>> overheard her story and denounced the little girl. Next day the Serbian
>> partisans took away the innocent girl and executed her.
>>
>> SZIVÁC (Sívac) 1st November I944. Seventy-five Hungarian men completely
>> undressed were accompanied to the cemetery where they were executed by
>> command of Brano Bikicskics Serbian main communist from Szivác.
>>
>> ADORJÁN (Nadrljan) On 3d December 1944. 56 Hungarian citizens were
>> executed on the bank of Tisza.
>>
>> KANIZSA (St. Kanjiza) On 7th October 1944 Serbian partisan executioners
>> arrived following the Soviet troops. In this village the names of the
>> offenders entirely remained. First of all every Hungarian women were
>> ravished. 300 Hungarians were collected in the village and they were
>> closed in the cellar of the town hall, majority of them was beaten to
>> death there. The corpses were carried on cart by nights to the island of
>> Tisza where they were lying covered by lime for days. Let the names of
>> the Serbian communist partisan killers be listed here: Niklo Radovics,
>> Szvetozár Knezevics, Alexander Oluski, Dusan Ugranov.
>>
>> OBECSE (Stari Becej) Killing of the Hungarians began on 9th October
>> I944. First Ferenc Petrányi 65 year old catholic abbot was arrested by
>> some young communist Serbian partisan girls. A11 parts of his face and
>> body were mashed. A partisan woman from Zombor, called Zorka was the
>> most brutal. He was bound on a plank by her and then they jumped to his
>> belly chest and sexual organ from the table. Zorka and her partisan
>> comrades in laced boots practically disemboweled his internal organs.
>> When he died on l4th October they threw him out of the window to the
>> stone block yard so that his death should seem to be a suicide.
>>
>> SZENTFÜLOP (B.Gracac) was a pure Hungarian village from the age of the
>> Arpads. On 25th November 1944 its whole male population between the age
>> of I8-60 years was exterminated. In total 212 men were killed.
>>
>> TEMERIN (Temerin) October of 1944. Several hundreds people fell victims
>> of the Serbian carnage. A Soviet officer prevented the extirpation of
>> the whole Hungarian population of the village. Hungarian human loss of
>> the village was 480 people.
>>
>> In MOHOL from October of 1944 the extirpation of the Hungarians went on
>> systematically. More than 800 Hungarians were collected and from this
>> number 760 were executed. Not only men were killed but also 16-20 year
>> old girls were executed. It is strange that in this village the
>> communist Serbian partisans close cropped the people going to death.
>> Then they were taken to the side of Tisza and they were shot by machine
>> gun to the river there.
>>
>> In CSUROG (Curog) from 23 October the Hungarian inhabitants had been
>> exterminated continuously. In 1941 the Serbian partisans in Csurog
>> killed a whole gendarme patrol some of them were impaled. Because of
>> this as revenge 765 5erbian inhabitants were executed in 1944. 2,000
>> people the whole Hungarian population of the village was exterminated.
>>
>> ZABLYA (Zabalj) in 1942 the Serbian killed 11 Hungarian soldiers in the
>> village. Because of this 581 Serbians were executed. Because of the
>> extreme revenge, just as it happened in Csurog the competent Hungarian
>> commanders were tried by court-marital. The Serbian partisans of Tito
>> started to revenge at once after their marching in, in October of 1944.
>> The wealthier Hungarians were drowned into the manure of the back house.
>> Even 13 year old Hungarian boys were killed, too. In total 2,000
>> Hungarian citizens were killed.
>>
>> In the city of ZOMBOR in October of 1944 the murdering of the Hungarians
>> started at once on the basis of the death-list previously made. First
>> two Hungarian Carmelite fraters were captured and executed. They were
>> frater Gellér Sztancsics and Illés Hollós. The Hungarians were taken to
>> the Palace of Kronich. Next to the race-course the common graves were
>> dug in which 2,500 Hungarisns were buried. Several other common graves
>> can be found in the outside districts of the city. The inhabitants of
>> the Hungarian city were fully exterminated. In total 5,650 Hungarians
>> were executed.
>>
>> *
>>
>> According to data collected by the Roman catholic pastors, Márton Szűcs
>> and József Kovács in. the strictest confidence; during the months of
>> October, November and December of 1944. 34 491 Hungarians were killed in
>> South Hungary in the territory of Bácska and Vajdasag. As the statistics
>> were made several years ago according to the data which have been
>> discovered since that time the number of the victims exceeds 40,000 per-
>> sons. Because of the continuity of the discovering works this number is
>> increasing day by day. It is also completed by the number of the
>> Hungarian martyrs who lost their life because of the atrocity of
>> Serbians after the decay of the Yugoslav communist regime.
> 
> 
> War brings out the worst in man.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

 >>In the Pacific War American and Australian soldiers massacred 
Japanese prisoners of war, according to "The Faraway War", a detailed 
study of diaries made by Professor Richard Aldrich of Nottingham 
University. According to Aldrich it became common for U.S troops in 
parts of the Pacific War not to take prisoners. [17] This analysis is 
supported by Niall Fergusson, in "Prisoner Taking and Prisoner Killing 
in the Age of Total War: Towards a Political Economy of Military 
Defeat"[18], who states that taking no prisoners became standard 
practice amongst U.S. troops. Ferguson writes that this practice played 
a role in the ratio of Japanese prisoners to dead being 1:100 in late 
1944. In 1944 efforts were taken by the Allied high command to suppress 
the "no prisoners" practice and instead encourage Japanese soldiers to 
surrender. According to Ferguson it is plausible that this may account 
for the drop of the ratio of Japanese prisoners to Japanese dead to 1:7 
by July 1945.<<

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes#Yugoslavia


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http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,,5331840-111784,00.html

Revealed: UK wartime torture camp

Ian Cobain
Saturday November 12, 2005

Guardian
The British government operated a secret torture centre during the 
second world war to extract information and confessions from German 
prisoners, according to official papers which have been unearthed by the 
Guardian.

More than 3,000 prisoners passed through the centre, where many were 
systematically beaten, deprived of sleep, forced to stand still for more 
than 24 hours at a time and threatened with execution or unnecessary 
surgery.

Some are also alleged to have been starved and subjected to extremes of 
temperature in specially built showers, while others later complained 
that they had been threatened with electric shock torture or menaced by 
interrogators brandishing red-hot pokers.

The centre, which was housed in a row of mansions in one of London's 
most affluent neighbourhoods, was carefully concealed from the Red 
Cross, the papers show. It continued to operate for three years after 
the war, during which time a number of German civilians were also tortured.

A subsequent assessment by MI5, the Security Service, concluded that the 
commanding officer had been guilty of "clear breaches" of the Geneva 
convention and that some interrogation methods "completely contradicted" 
international law.

On at least one occasion, an MI5 officer noted in a newly declassified 
report, a German prisoner was convicted of war crimes and hanged on the 
basis of a confession which he had signed after he was, at the very 
least, "worked on psychologically". A number of people who appeared as 
prosecution witnesses at war crimes trials are also alleged to have been 
tortured.

The official papers, discovered in the National Archives, depict the 
centre as a dark, brutal place which caused great unease among senior 
British officers. They appear to have turned a blind eye partly because 
of the usefulness of the information extracted, and partly because the 
detainees were thought to deserve ill treatment.

Not all the torture centre's secrets have yet emerged, however: the 
Ministry of Defence is continuing to withhold some of the papers almost 
60 years after it was closed down.


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After the war the Norwegian government forced German prisoners of war to 
clear minefields. When the clearing ended in September 1946, 392 of them 
had been injured and 275 had been killed, meanwhile only 2 Norwegians 
and 4 British mine-clearers had sustained any injuries.[1] Many of the 
Germans were killed through their British guards' habit of chasing them 
criss-cross over a cleared field to ensure that no mines 
remained.[2][citation needed] The Norwegians' claim that the German 
prisoners were Disarmed Enemy Forces circumvented the Geneva Convention 
relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, which forbids the use of 
prisoners of war for harmful or dangerous labor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Norway_by_Nazi_Germany#German_POWs


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:07 EDT 2007
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Canicattě slaughter
 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Canicattě slaughter was an incident that occurred in Italy following 
liberation by American forces. During the invasion of Sicily in July 
1943, approximately eight unarmed Italian civilians were killed by U.S. 
troops under the command of General George Patton. The town of Canicattě 
had already surrendered when U.S. troops entered, following heavy German 
bombardment during their withdrawal.

Upon arrival, U.S. troops received a report that civilians were looting 
a bombed factory, filling up buckets with the factory's products - food 
and liquid soap. At around six o'clock in the evening Lieutenant Colonel 
McCaffrey and some Military Police arrived at the factory. McCaffrey 
fired into the crowd after it failed to disperse. At least eight 
civilians, including an eleven year old girl, were killed, though the 
exact number of casualties is uncertain. [1]

A confidential inquiry was made, but McCaffrey was never charged with an 
offence relating to the incident. He died in 1954. This incident 
remained virtually unknown until Joseph S. Salemi of New York 
University, whose father witnessed it, publicised it.[2]


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From: Protagonist 
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Subject: Rape by French Goumiers at Ciociaria 
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  Montecassino was conquered by the Allies on May 18, 1944. That next 
night thousands of French Goumiers and other colonial troops (Moroccan, 
Algerian, Tunisian and Senegalese) swarmed over the slopes of the hills 
surrounding the town and in the villages of Ciociaria (South Latium). 
Over 2,000 women, ranging in age from 11 years to 86 years suffered from 
violence, when village after village, came under control of the 
Goumiers. Civilian men who tried to protect their own wives and 
daughters were murdered without mercy, the number of killed men has been 
estimated at roughly 800. Two sisters aged 15 and 18 were raped by 
dozens of soldiers each; one died shortly after, the surviving one was 
still in a mental hospital in 1997, 53 years after the event. Most of 
the dwellings in the villages were destroyed and everything of value was 
stolen.

The mayor of Esperia (a comune in the Province of Frosinone), reported 
that in his town, 700 women out of 2,500 inhabitants were raped and that 
some had died as a result.


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:07 EDT 2007
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khuber181@gmail.com wrote:
> 21300 peoples are locked up in Dachau, Sachenshausen, Buchenwald,
> Mauthausen, Flossenburg and Ravensbruck in 1939 but only 3000 Jews are
> there. Why Jews do not tell us this? Why Jews are all the time saying
> mostly Jews are locked up?
> 
> Karl
> 

So Da 6 million can be added up some how?
Bigger da lie, more it's believed!

JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:07 EDT 2007
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In the city of ZOMBOR in October of 1944 the murdering of the Hungarians 
started by the Serb communist at once on the basis of the death-list 
previously made. First two Hungarian Carmelite fraters were captured and 
executed. They were frater Gellér Sztancsics and Illés Hollós. The 
Hungarians were taken to the Palace of Kronich. Next to the race-course 
the common graves were dug in which 2,500 Hungarisns were buried. 
Several other common graves can be found in the outside districts of the 
city. The inhabitants of the Hungarian city were fully exterminated. In 
total 5,650 Hungarians were executed.
JS

Ken McVay wrote:
> [Follow-ups set]
> 
> July 7
> 
> 1941
> 
> Order Police Battalion 322 arrives in Bialystok and begins to assist
> Einsatzkommando 9 and Police Btn. 309 in the roundup and murder of Jews.
> (Breitman, 46)
> 
> 1944
> 
> The Hungarian regent Miklos Horthy orders an end to
> deportations of Hungarian Jews; the last "official"
> deportation occurs on July 8. (USHMM 1994, 49)
> 
> 
>                          Work Cited
>                               
> Breitman, Richard. Official Secrets. New York: Hill & Wang, 1998                              
> USHMM (United States Holocaust Memorial Museum). Fifty
>    Years Ago: Darkness Before Dawn: Days of Remembrance, April
>    3-10, 1994. Washington, D.C.: 1994


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:08 EDT 2007
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Joe Bruno wrote:
>  wrote in message 
> news:1183792541.203101.26630@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> >
>> Russian jew anarchists enter England and make their way
>> to the jew East End of London.  They kill English P.C.'s
>> and firemen.  They also threw a bomb at a bus killing some
>> riders.   A fire is started at the jew house where they were
>> being hidden and the jews are killed except one - Peter
>> Painter known as Peter the Painter who managed to escape
>> and fled back to Russia, where he became a leading
>> figure in the Bolshevik Rebolution in 1917.
> 
> 
> Proof????????????????????????????????????????????????
>> Communisn is jewish.
>> Henry Ford.
>>
>> And so say all of us.
> 
> 
> 
> LIAR. Not all of us.
>> BTW loonytunes. Those "British women" were all members
>> of the British Military. The WAAF.
> 
> 
> So what? Who executed them? Anti-Semites like you killed them.
> 
> 
>    They were radio operators
>> who were sent to join up with the French Resistance
>> and receive and send messages back to London in order
>> to aid the invasion forces.  As such they were spies
>> and *not* in uniform when arrested.   As a former member
>> of the WRAF I am saddened by their deaths and saw their
>> memorial plaque in Germany when I was stationed there.
>> There was a film made about their deeds,  I suggest you
>> watch it the next time it comes on T.V. It's called "Carve
>> Her Name With Pride".
>>
>> However since you know nothing about the military you
>> no doubt won't understand a word of it.
> 
> 
> Ken McVay is a former U.S. Marine, dimwit.
> 
> LOL!

Is that how a former US Marine looks like?
http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
JS



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Joe Bruno wrote:
> "Protagonist"  wrote in message 
> news:WeSdnV-debbe2BLbnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Joe Bruno wrote:
>>>  wrote in message 
>>> news:1183792541.203101.26630@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>>> >
>>>> Russian jew anarchists enter England and make their way
>>>> to the jew East End of London.  They kill English P.C.'s
>>>> and firemen.  They also threw a bomb at a bus killing some
>>>> riders.   A fire is started at the jew house where they were
>>>> being hidden and the jews are killed except one - Peter
>>>> Painter known as Peter the Painter who managed to escape
>>>> and fled back to Russia, where he became a leading
>>>> figure in the Bolshevik Rebolution in 1917.
>>>
>>> Proof????????????????????????????????????????????????
>>>> Communisn is jewish.
>>>> Henry Ford.
>>>>
>>>> And so say all of us.
>>>
>>>
>>> LIAR. Not all of us.
>>>> BTW loonytunes. Those "British women" were all members
>>>> of the British Military. The WAAF.
>>>
>>> So what? Who executed them? Anti-Semites like you killed them.
>>>
>>>
>>>    They were radio operators
>>>> who were sent to join up with the French Resistance
>>>> and receive and send messages back to London in order
>>>> to aid the invasion forces.  As such they were spies
>>>> and *not* in uniform when arrested.   As a former member
>>>> of the WRAF I am saddened by their deaths and saw their
>>>> memorial plaque in Germany when I was stationed there.
>>>> There was a film made about their deeds,  I suggest you
>>>> watch it the next time it comes on T.V. It's called "Carve
>>>> Her Name With Pride".
>>>>
>>>> However since you know nothing about the military you
>>>> no doubt won't understand a word of it.
>>>
>>> Ken McVay is a former U.S. Marine, dimwit.
>>>
>>> LOL!
>> Is that how a former US Marine looks like?
>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>> JS
> 
> 
> 
> Ken served during the Vietnam War, which ended in 1973. That was
> a long time ago, dimwit. I don't look the same now as I did in 1977, either.

Ah! So in Vietnam?
He was a baby killer Jew?
JS


> 


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Richard Warren wrote:
> "TurkeyBoy"  wrote in message 
> news:1183795642.861010.216460@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 7, 9:59 am, "Joe Bruno"  wrote:
>>> "Protagonist"  wrote in message
>>>> Is that how a former US Marine looks like?
>>>> http://www.protocol.gov.bc.ca/protocol/prgs/obc/1995/1995_KMcVay.htm
>>>> JS
>>> Ken served during the Vietnam War, which ended in 1973.
>> On whose side?
> 
> 
> 
> On the American side, Turkeyturd, defending the rights of people like you to 
> act like total assholes. 
> 
> 

You mean the rights of a few Jewish bankers?
What an idiot!
JS


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It's been obvious to me a long time, reason McVay spending his time and 
posting here every day (even if only by script), to bait people for 
responds.
He may collect names, emails, info on people, what ever reason.
Maybe sell it to some Jewish watch groups.
Nice going McVay!
JS



Gentile Mirelle wrote:
> On Jul 7, 9:08 pm, Ken McVay  wrote:
> 
> The Nizkor Project depends entirely upon your generous support; there
> are several ways that you can contribute to the Project's continued
> survival and growth:
> 
>  Click here to learn how to make an exempt donation (Canadan receipt)
> 
> http://www.nizkor.org/funding.shtml
> 
> The Nizkor Project (Hebrew:we will remember) is an ongoing
> **Internet-based project run by Ken McVay*** which is dedicated to
> countering Holocaust denial. **It was founded by McVay*** as a
> central
> Web-based archive for the large numbers of documents made publicly
> available by the users of the newsgroup alt.revisionism.
> 
> The site also archives numerous postings made to the newsgroup since
> the early 1990s. It does not archive every single posting ever made
> to
> the newsgroup; rather, the maintainers of the web site have selected
> various messages for display that are seen as presenting factual
> information about the Holocaust; or, in the case of some posters,
> about the authors of the messages themselves. In addition to
> providing
> an extensive archive of documents regarding the Holocaust, the Nizkor
> Project also seeks to expose the activities of Holocaust deniers
> themselves.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project
> 
> Mirelle
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:09 EDT 2007
Article: 1198967 of alt.revisionism
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TurkeyBoy wrote:
> On Jul 8, 8:46 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> It's been obvious to me a long time, reason McVay spending his time and
>> posting here every day (even if only by script), to bait people for
>> responds.
>> He may collect names, emails, info on people, what ever reason.
>> Maybe sell it to some Jewish watch groups.
>> Nice going McVay!
>> JS
> 
> Is that why it gets them so upset when people do not use their real
> names?

Must be! They have to work for it, not the thing for Joos.
(o:
JS

> 
>>
>>
>> Gentile Mirelle wrote:
>>> On Jul 7, 9:08 pm, Ken McVay  wrote:
>>> The Nizkor Project depends entirely upon your generous support; there
>>> are several ways that you can contribute to the Project's continued
>>> survival and growth:
>>>  Click here to learn how to make an exempt donation (Canadan receipt)
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/funding.shtml
>>> The Nizkor Project (Hebrew:we will remember) is an ongoing
>>> **Internet-based project run by Ken McVay*** which is dedicated to
>>> countering Holocaust denial. **It was founded by McVay*** as a
>>> central
>>> Web-based archive for the large numbers of documents made publicly
>>> available by the users of the newsgroup alt.revisionism.
>>> The site also archives numerous postings made to the newsgroup since
>>> the early 1990s. It does not archive every single posting ever made
>>> to
>>> the newsgroup; rather, the maintainers of the web site have selected
>>> various messages for display that are seen as presenting factual
>>> information about the Holocaust; or, in the case of some posters,
>>> about the authors of the messages themselves. In addition to
>>> providing
>>> an extensive archive of documents regarding the Holocaust, the Nizkor
>>> Project also seeks to expose the activities of Holocaust deniers
>>> themselves.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project
>>> Mirelle
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:09 EDT 2007
Article: 1198969 of alt.revisionism
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Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> "A few days later an experiment with poison gas was carried out by
> Nebe and Dr. Widmann in Mogilev. In the local lunatic asylum, a room
> with twenty to thirty of the insane was closed hermetically, and two
> pipes were driven into the wall. A car was parked outside, and one of
> the metal pipes that Dr. Widmann had brought connected the exhaust of
> the car to the pipe in the wall. The car engine was turned on and the
> carbon monoxide began seeping into the room. After eight minutes, the
> people in the room were still alive. A second car was connected to the
> other pipe in the wall. The two cars were operated simultaneously, and
> a few minutes later all those in the room were dead.
> 
> After these experimental executions, Nebe came up with the idea of
> constructing a car with a hermitically sealed cabin for killing
> purposes. The carbon monoxide from the car's exhaust would be
> channeled into the sealed cabin, in which the victims stood. Nebe
> discussed the technical aspects of the idea with Dr. Heess and
> together they brought the proposal before Heydrich, who adopted it.<1>
> 
> The Technical Department of the Reich Security Main Office, headed by
> SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Walter Rauff, developed a special vehicle for
> killing purposes. This vehicle resembled an ambulance or refrigerator
> truck and contained a hermetically sealed rear cabin. The victims were
> placed in the cabin and carbon monoxide was introduced by means of a
> pipe. The gassing process took between fifteen and thirty minutes.
> During this time the van was driven from the loading site to prepared
> graves.
> 
> Two types of gas vans were built: a larger one, 5.8 meters in length,
> and a smaller one, measuring 4.5 meters. Both were about 2.5 meters
> wide and 1.7 meters high. The bigger one could accommodate between 130
> and 150 people, when densely packed inside, and the smaller one from
> 80 to 100.<2>
> 
> The first gas vans were supplied to the Einsatzgruppen and to the
> Chelmno death camps in November-December 1941. The killing in Chelmno
> began on December 8, 1941. By the middle of 1942, about thirty gas
> vans had been produced by a private car manufacturer, the Gabschat
> Farengewerke GMBH, Will-Walter Strasse 32-38, Berlin. <3>(Arad,
> 10-11)

Interesting, Google doesn't show any thing under this name,
"Gabchat Farengewerke GMBH" as gas van manufacturer.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B2GGIC_enUS203US204&q=Gabchat+Farengewerke+GMBH&btnG=Search
Did you invented, McVay!
JS


> 
> <1> YVA, TR-10/959, pp45-47, the trial against Dr. Widmann;
>     "Nationalsozialistiche Massentotungen", pp 81-82
> <2> Edward Serwanski, "Oboz Zaglady w Chelmnie nad Narem", Poznan, 1964,
>     p.45; "Nationalsozialistische Massentotungen", p.84, gives the
>     number of 50-60 people in the Saurer car and 25-30 people in
>     the Diamond car.
> <3> Nationalsozialistiche Massentotungen", pp 84-86
> 
>                           Work Cited
> 
> Arad, Yitzhak. BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation 
> Reinhard Death Camps. Indiana University Press, 1987. 
> ISBN 0-253-3429-7


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Eugene Holman wrote:
> Ben Cramer has been remarkably silent after having been so totally 
> humiliated and  discredited. If my hunch is correct, despite his 
> pottymouthedness he has a sense of shame after all and knows that he 
> cannot show up here again without being the object of derision and scorn.
> That's what happens when you fail to respond to a double-dog dare and 
> reason according to the perniciously fallacious "if not the subset, then 
> not the superset" modality.
> We should not ignore deniers. We should engage in discourse with them 
> and point out the speciousness of their denial. Nor, of course, should 
> we always assume that everything we have learned about the Holocaust is 
> correct and written in stone. 
> 
> Resquiescat in pace.
> 
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman

I haven't seen you you win any discussion Holman!
So, what's with that big Negro mouth?
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:10 EDT 2007
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Economics wrote:
> Jews only buy from Jews?
> 
> What is being said, is that Jews are taught at temple to spend their money
> only at Jewish owned businesses, so those Jews can prosper. But to sell
> their items to anyone, thereby bringing in more money than they spend.  This
> way, Jewish businesses get richer, but it can bankrupt non-Jewish
> businesses.
> 
> It is said Jews do this with businesses because they get harassed and should
> trust only fellow Jews. When they aren't getting harassed, however, they
> make it look like they are, to justify how they only buy from Jewish
> businesses, but receive money from anyone.
> 
> Is this true?
> 
> 

My old Jewish landlady (never heard politics from her) would not shop at 
Safeway food store for sure, because owned by Arabs.
She told me one time, when she ran out of some food item, every thing 
was closed, except Safeway, nearby!
So there's some prejudice, even who appears to be innocent.
JS



From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:11 EDT 2007
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Venceremos wrote:
> On Jul 8, 2:46 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> It's been obvious to me a long time, reason McVay spending his time and
>> posting here every day (even if only by script), to bait people for
>> responds.
>> He may collect names, emails, info on people, what ever reason.
>> Maybe sell it to some Jewish watch groups.
>> Nice going McVay!
>> JS
> 
> He must have made lots of bucks on my name I bet he soldf it hundred
> times!

I think, McVay should stand in front of a shopping mall with a sign, 
saying "Are you a Holocau$t denier?"
If - YES! - Fill out this brief form and can WIN a trip!
First prize - a FREE trip to Israel for re-education in revisionism and 
basic lessons how to tourcher Palestinians, Da Zionist ways!
JS


>> Gentile Mirelle wrote:
>>> On Jul 7, 9:08 pm, Ken McVay  wrote:
>>> The Nizkor Project depends entirely upon your generous support; there
>>> are several ways that you can contribute to the Project's continued
>>> survival and growth:
>>>  Click here to learn how to make an exempt donation (Canadan receipt)
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/funding.shtml
>>> The Nizkor Project (Hebrew:we will remember) is an ongoing
>>> **Internet-based project run by Ken McVay*** which is dedicated to
>>> countering Holocaust denial. **It was founded by McVay*** as a
>>> central
>>> Web-based archive for the large numbers of documents made publicly
>>> available by the users of the newsgroup alt.revisionism.
>>> The site also archives numerous postings made to the newsgroup since
>>> the early 1990s. It does not archive every single posting ever made
>>> to
>>> the newsgroup; rather, the maintainers of the web site have selected
>>> various messages for display that are seen as presenting factual
>>> information about the Holocaust; or, in the case of some posters,
>>> about the authors of the messages themselves. In addition to
>>> providing
>>> an extensive archive of documents regarding the Holocaust, the Nizkor
>>> Project also seeks to expose the activities of Holocaust deniers
>>> themselves.
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nizkor_Project
>>> Mirelle
> 
> 


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Subject: Re: The Holocaust Almanac: The Mobile Gas Vans
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 9, 1:45 am, Eugene Holman  wrote:
>> In article ,
>>
>>  Protagonist  wrote:
>>>> The first gas vans were supplied to the Einsatzgruppen and to the
>>>> Chelmno death camps in November-December 1941. The killing in Chelmno
>>>> began on December 8, 1941. By the middle of 1942, about thirty gas
>>>> vans had been produced by a private car manufacturer, the Gabschat
>>>> Farengewerke GMBH, Will-Walter Strasse 32-38, Berlin. <3>(Arad,
>>>> 10-11)
>>> Interesting, Google doesn't show any thing under this name,
>>> "Gabchat Farengewerke GMBH" as gas van manufacturer.
>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B2GGIC_enUS203US204&q=Gabchat...
>>> erke+GMBH&btnG=Search
>>> Did you invented, McVay!
> 
> Try spelling "Gabschat" correctly, kedves barátom!
>> Regards,
>> Eugene Holman
> 
> 
> He won't likely look it up and even if he does it won't change his
> mindset. So I found this on the
> web:
> 
>>
> 
> THE LAST FAMILY OUTING
> DESTINATION " KULMHOF"
> 
> Artist's Comment
> 
> Kulmhof (Chelmno) located in Poland, the first Nazi extermination
> camp. After the victims arrival at Chelmno they were taken in groups
> of fifty - men, women and children to the ground floor of the
> "Schloss" a large building. There they were told to strip and put
> their valuables in a basket. The victims were then taken to the cellar
> past signs reading "To the Wasch room". From there they were brought
> to an enclosed ramp. At the end of the ramp stood a gas van with its
> doors open. The moment the victims entered the ramp, the Nazis forced
> them with blows to run into the van.
> 
> Method of killing. The gas vans (apparently three were used in this
> region) were hermetically sealed. Carbon monoxide from Renault trucks
> was pumped into the van via a hole in the floor. The inside dimensions
> of the van 13 to 15 feet long - 6.75 feet wide - 6.5 feet high. Fifty
> to seventy people were crammed into each van.
> 
> Chelmno was operative from November 1941 to January 1945. A total of
> 320.000 were killed there. Also killed at Chelmno a few hundred Poles,
> Soviet prisoners and eighty-eight Czechoslovak children from the Czech
> village of Lidice.
> 
> Total survivors out of 320.000: Three men. Also one boy shot in the
> head and left for dead by the departing Nazis in 1945, was found and
> nursed by Polish peasants. He survived and eventually made it to
> Israel.
> 
> 
>  Docent Guide
> 
> Kulmhof or Chelmno (Polish) was one of the six death camps located
> within
> the former borders of Poland annexed into Germany as the Warthaland.
> It
> was the first extermination camp that experimented with mobile gas
> chambers. These were large vans produced by Dodge, Opel and Saurer
> modified so that the exhaust fumes came into the cargo area and
> asphyxiated the victims.
> 
> Two types of gas vans had been built: a larger one, 5.8 meters in
> length, and a smaller one, measuring 4.5 meters. Both were about 2.5
> meters wide and 1.7 meters high. The bigger one could accommodate
> between 130 and 150 people, when densely packed inside, and the
> smaller one from 80 to 100.
> 
> The gas vans were supplied to the Einsatzgruppen and to the Chelmno
> death camps in November-December 1941. The killing in Chelmno began on
> December 8, 1941. By the middle of 1942, about thirty gas vans had
> been produced by a private car manufacturer, the Gabschat Farengewerke
> GMBH, Will=Walter Strasse 32-38, Berlin.   When the van returned to
> the camp after a drive in the countryside, the dead or half-dead
> bodies were thrown into furnaces. Chelmo became operative in November,
> 1941 and continued to operate until January, 1945. Approximately
> 320,000 victims were killed there. There were only three survivors
> from this camp. Gas vans were used in the murder of approximately
> 700,000 people throughout Nazi-dominated Europe.
> 
> Walter Rauff On Use of Gas Vans
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> In September 1941, SS-Obersturmbannführer Walter Rauff, head of
> Department II D of the Reich Security Main Office, sent for Friedrich
> Pradel, head of transportation service, and told him of his idea to
> remodel heavy trucks in such a way that they could be used to kill a
> greater nember of people in the Soviet territories. Rauff later
> declared to an official of the German embassy in Santiago, Chile:
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> "So far as the extermination of Jews in Russia is concerned, I know
> that gas vans were used...I don't believe that Pradel took the
> initiative in the development of the gas vans. He must have been under
> orders, either from me or my superiors. Did I think twice about
> employing the gas vans? I couldn't say. At the time the most important
> consideration for me was the psychological stress felt by the men
> involved in the shootings. This problem was overcome by the use of gas
> vans."
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Sources: Kogon, Eugen, Hermann Langbein and Adalbert Ruckerl ed. Nazi
> Mass Murder: A Documentary History of the Use of Poison Gas. New
> Haven: Yale University Press, 1993, p. 53,
> 
> Hirschberger depicts a family, presumably innocent but appearing
> anxious and perhaps despondent, on their way to their last outing. The
> gas van is metaphorically replaced by a wooden wagon with red wheels.
> The round object in the upper left suggests an eclipse, or perhaps a
> tear in the sky, a way for these innocents to ascend to heaven. Note
> the flat perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> "
> 
Where are the pictures? None?
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:13 EDT 2007
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http://www.justiz.gv.at/_cms_upload/_docs/auslobung_englisch.pdf

One born 1914 the other in 1912, Jews still looking for them!
Haha!
Are they sure, still alive?
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:13 EDT 2007
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Protagonist wrote:
> http://www.justiz.gv.at/_cms_upload/_docs/auslobung_englisch.pdf
> 
> One born 1914 the other in 1912, Jews still looking for them!
> Haha!
> Are they sure, still alive?
> JS


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070713/ap_on_re_eu/wanted_nazis&printer=1;_ylt=AsLtF280RlR5ZBSxMbROutFbbBAF

  Austria renews hunt for Nazi fugitives

By VERONIKA OLEKSYN, Associated Press WriterFri Jul 13, 4:09 PM ET

One was a concentration camp doctor who purportedly injected poison into 
the hearts of Jews. The other was once an aide to Holocaust mastermind 
Adolf Eichmann. Austria wants to find Alois Brunner and Aribert Heim, 
both in their 90s if still alive, and bring them to justice.

A notice posted on the Justice Ministry's Web site this week features 
photos and descriptions of Brunner and Heim and offers rewards for 
information leading to their capture. Brunner, the most-wanted Nazi war 
criminal, according to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, is described as 
having mutilated hands and only one eye, after reportedly being 
disfigured by mail bombs.

Justice Minister Maria Berger, in an interview Friday with Austrian 
radio, said she hoped the rewards would be more than a "symbolic act," 
and stressed Austria would do everything possible to find the fugitives.

"I know the odds aren't the greatest, but in particular given the ages 
and indications that both are possibly still alive, I think one should 
seize this potentially last opportunity," she said.

Heim is "strongly suspected of murdering numerous prisoners" in the 
Mauthausen concentration camp by injecting poison into their hearts, 
according to the notice on the Web site.

Brunner is "strongly suspected of being significantly involved in the 
deportation of Jewish persons with the aim of murdering them," the 
notice reads. Brunner lived in Syria for decades, under government 
protection, and was last seen there in 2001, according to the Wiesenthal 
Center.

Heim practiced medicine in Germany after World War II and fled after the 
government charged him in 1962 with killing hundreds of inmates in 
Germany and Austria with lethal injections. He presumably lives in Spain 
or South America, according to the Wiesenthal Center.

Berger acknowledged that Austria has been criticized for not doing 
enough to bring Nazi war criminals to justice. "For me it's important 
that we now do all that can still be done," she said.

An estimated 65,000 Austrian Jews perished in the Holocaust.

Austria has offered $69,000 rewards for information leading to the 
arrest of the men. The notice, available in four languages, states that 
only private citizens — not authorities who prosecute criminals — are 
eligible.

The Wiesenthal Center welcomed Austria's move and noted that past 
financial rewards have "proven critical." Camp commander Josef 
Schwammberger lived in Argentina for decades before a German reward led 
to his arrest in 1987.

Efraim Zuroff, the Wiesenthal Center's chief Nazi hunter, asked the 
Austrian government last year to match Germany's prize of $179,450 for 
information leading to Heim's capture.

"The passage of time in no way diminishes the crimes committed by 
Brunner and Heim and, therefore, their prosecution remains just as 
important, if not even more important, today than it would have been 
years ago," Zuroff said in a statement.

He told The Associated Press that he hoped Austria would continue to be 
"more attentive" to Nazi fugitives. "We're running out of time," Zuroff 
said.

___



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http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/3600/hungary.htm

While the Germans and the Hungarians executed the pattisans one by one 
in accordance with the intenational articles of war who ambushed and 
attacked the Hungarian and German soldiers from lofts, the Serbian 
partisans broke with the long procedures the people to be executed were 
10 times more.

Their victitns were bound with wire by tens or by twenties. The 
Hungarians were lined up in front of a common grave dug in advance. Then 
they were shot down by machine pistole or by machine gun from the back. 
This was easier solution that the Hungarians - with death wound on their 
napes - should fall in their final tomb at once. Then it was necessary 
only to cover them with soil.

It seems that the Serbians had plenty of wires. They spared their 
munitions. 15-2O Hungarian men were bound. They were lined up around a 
straw-stack Last two men in the right and left sides of the line were 
strongly bound with wire. When the ring was fixed the straw-Stack was 
lit. The bound men impeded each other in escape. All of them were burnt 
away. Where they had enough time, the Serbian communist partisans 
deprived the selected Hungarian victims from all their twenty finger 
nails with pinchers- Their thirst of revenge was better filled if they 
heated previously the pinchers in a near smithery. It also happened that 
in the smithies the Serbian farriers drove horseshoes into the naked 
sole of the Hungarians. Not every Serbian could endure the horrible 
sights. Some of them vomited themselves during forced fulfillment of the 
command.

Partisan women took part in these atrocities in large numbers.

Hungarian Roman catholic priests and friars who got into their handsreceived

particular attention! In most cases they were undressed. First a 
cross-shaped strap was cut out from the-skin of their back. For the sake 
of more hardened partisan women the sexual organs of the priests were 
taken care. Mostly their testicles were torn by pinchers. There was such 
a woman in these partisan units who stamped on these naked catholic 
reverends, mashed their loins.

In one of the villages, in Bezdan, Hungarian men, driven to a sport 
ground were searched in order to find guns. In the pocket of a boy who 
was 11 years old an empty cartridge was found. The ,,guilty" boy was 
placed to the middle of the empty ground. A touching mine was fixed to 
his leg. The explosive cartridge bound to the leg of the child was shot 
until it exploded and tore the owner of the legs and the cartridge.

The sawmills also gave possibility to use new methods of killing the 
Hungarians. Hands and legs were cut by sawing - machine and the tortured 
Hungarians died as martyrs with violent and long pain! It also happened 
that chopping trunks into firewood gave the sample for the execution. It 
happened that whole family of the Hungarian owner of the sawmill was 
bound in front of the saw-blade and the members of the family were torn 
in two by the sawing-machine started.

Impalement (palo inponere) was used not only in the Roman Empire but 
also appeared in penal practice of the 17th century. It was introduced 
again in the extirpation of the Hungarians by the Serbian partisans to 
Vajdasag and Bacska under the protection of the Soviet Army. In order to 
see clearly the inhuman and bestial revenge, let's study the method of 
impalement used by the Serbian partisans: The bark of the 3 meter long 
oak a pale was removed. If there was enough time a sharp iron was fixed 
by smithies to its pointed tip. The naked pale was made greasy by oil. 
Well in advance a narrow hole was dug into which the ,Fitted" pale would 
be placed. A stick with short halve was the part of the preparations1 too.

The Hungarian to be executed was got down into prone position. A loop of 
rope was cast on both of his ankles and two partisans were pulling his 
feet in two directions. The executioner fitted the tip of the iron-bound 
stake into the anus of the unlucky fellow, then he gripped the stake and 
started to hammer the end of the stake to the aimed direction first with 
gentle hits then more and more strongly. Initial screaming of the 
Hungarian turned into creaking when the stake reached the level of 
shoulderblades. At that time the executioner directed the stake a little 
bit to the right so that the tip should come out from the body of the 
unlucky man bursting the skin of the collar-bone. At this moment the 
thick bottom of the pale was placed into the hole. It was the triumph of 
the Serbian crowd of spectators enjoying the execution if the miserable 
impaled person was sighing for hours and the desperate beatings of his 
heart would be seen on his chest while the dug earth absorbed the blood 
running from his body.

According to the memory vitéz Ferenc Szombathelyi, the chief of staff of 
the Hungarian royal army was executed in this manner who was delivered 
to the Yugoslavian communist government under communist pressure by 
Zoltán Tildy, reformed priest who was the Prime minister collaborating 
with the communists from the Small-holders' party and who was called 
"murderer in cloak" by the Hungarian people.

Places and times of some massacres in Vajdaság together with the number 
of the Hungarian victims:

BEZDÁN 3 November 1944. The Hungarian male inhabitants of the village in 
the age of between l6 and 5O years were driven to a sports ground. 118 
men were shot down by machine pistol to the Danube. 2830 Serbian 
communist partisans who made the murder belonged to the udarna brigade 
No. 12 in the division No. 51. It is strange but the Soviet officers 
were also horrified at the massacre because they were who stopped 
swearing further executions.

ZOMBOR (Sombor) 6 December 1944. The Serbian partisans first had one 
part of their captives dug up to the neck into the earth by other 
captives then they had them trampled to death by tank. The first 
impalement happened here, too. The executions in the villages of Bácska 
Vajdaság were directed by a Serbian communist partisan woman called 
Julka who was wounded mortally in the fights later. At the moment there 
is a thirty meter high granite monument on the mount of Batina and on 
the top of this monument there is the statue of this woman executioner.

UJVIDÉK (Novisad) 23 October 1944. In the early morning hours the 
Serbian partisans under the leadership of Todor Gavrilovics Rilc, 
political commissioner marched in the ancient Hungarian town, in Novisad 
(Újvidék). From the first day they already carried off the Hungarian 
inhabitants to the former winterport of the Danube. This was the center 
of the massacre. Until the execution men were held in prison for weeks. 
Among the captured and executed people there were a lot of 14-15 year 
old boys

as "dangerous fascists". Executions started on 25th October. A drunken 
partisan officer read off 300 names. In a short time only the rattle of 
the machine pistols sounded. Farewell cries of the executed Hungarians 
were suppressed by the racing of the lorries' engine. The Hungarian 
captives got some water and bread only on the fifth day. During the 
first week about 1500 Hungarians were shot down into the Danube: One 
part of the corpses was either burnt or put into common graves in 
several rows. Around 1970 a new highway was built but because of the 
common graves in the Feketics forest the track of the highway was led in 
other way. All the Hungarian students captured in Novisad and its 
surroundings were shot down.

SZENTTAMÁS (Srbobran Turja) In October of 1944 3,000 inhabitants of 
Hungarian nationality were executed by the Serbian communist partisans 
>from the village of 18,000 inhabitants. In the old Serbian cemetery the 
tomb was dug by the persons to be executed and the Hungarians were 
executed in groups of 150-200. An 8-year-old girl was the witness of the 
massacres by chance and unnoticed. The Serbian people next door 
overheard her story and denounced the little girl. Next day the Serbian 
partisans took away the innocent girl and executed her.

SZIVÁC (Sívac) 1st November I944. Seventy-five Hungarian men completely 
undressed were accompanied to the cemetery where they were executed by 
command of Brano Bikicskics Serbian main communist from Szivác.

ADORJÁN (Nadrljan) On 3d December 1944. 56 Hungarian citizens were 
executed on the bank of Tisza.

KANIZSA (St. Kanjiza) On 7th October 1944 Serbian partisan executioners 
arrived following the Soviet troops. In this village the names of the 
offenders entirely remained. First of all every Hungarian women were 
ravished. 300 Hungarians were collected in the village and they were 
closed in the cellar of the town hall, majority of them was beaten to 
death there. The corpses were carried on cart by nights to the island of 
Tisza where they were lying covered by lime for days. Let the names of 
the Serbian communist partisan killers be listed here: Niklo Radovics, 
Szvetozár Knezevics, Alexander Oluski, Dusan Ugranov.

OBECSE (Stari Becej) Killing of the Hungarians began on 9th October 
I944. First Ferenc Petrányi 65 year old catholic abbot was arrested by 
some young communist Serbian partisan girls. A11 parts of his face and 
body were mashed. A partisan woman from Zombor, called Zorka was the 
most brutal. He was bound on a plank by her and then they jumped to his 
belly chest and sexual organ from the table. Zorka and her partisan 
comrades in laced boots practically disemboweled his internal organs. 
When he died on l4th October they threw him out of the window to the 
stone block yard so that his death should seem to be a suicide.

SZENTFÜLOP (B.Gracac) was a pure Hungarian village from the age of the 
Arpads. On 25th November 1944 its whole male population between the age 
of I8-60 years was exterminated. In total 212 men were killed.

TEMERIN (Temerin) October of 1944. Several hundreds people fell victims 
of the Serbian carnage. A Soviet officer prevented the extirpation of 
the whole Hungarian population of the village. Hungarian human loss of 
the village was 480 people.

In MOHOL from October of 1944 the extirpation of the Hungarians went on 
systematically. More than 800 Hungarians were collected and from this 
number 760 were executed. Not only men were killed but also 16-20 year 
old girls were executed. It is strange that in this village the 
communist Serbian partisans close cropped the people going to death. 
Then they were taken to the side of Tisza and they were shot by machine 
gun to the river there.

In CSUROG (Curog) from 23 October the Hungarian inhabitants had been 
exterminated continuously. In 1941 the Serbian partisans in Csurog 
killed a whole gendarme patrol some of them were impaled. Because of 
this as revenge 765 5erbian inhabitants were executed in 1944. 2,000 
people the whole Hungarian population of the village was exterminated.

ZABLYA (Zabalj) in 1942 the Serbian killed 11 Hungarian soldiers in the 
village. Because of this 581 Serbians were executed. Because of the 
extreme revenge, just as it happened in Csurog the competent Hungarian 
commanders were tried by court-marital. The Serbian partisans of Tito 
started to revenge at once after their marching in, in October of 1944. 
The wealthier Hungarians were drowned into the manure of the back house. 
Even 13 year old Hungarian boys were killed, too. In total 2,000 
Hungarian citizens were killed.

In the city of ZOMBOR in October of 1944 the murdering of the Hungarians 
started at once on the basis of the death-list previously made. First 
two Hungarian Carmelite fraters were captured and executed. They were 
frater Gellér Sztancsics and Illés Hollós. The Hungarians were taken to 
the Palace of Kronich. Next to the race-course the common graves were 
dug in which 2,500 Hungarisns were buried. Several other common graves 
can be found in the outside districts of the city. The inhabitants of 
the Hungarian city were fully exterminated. In total 5,650 Hungarians 
were executed.

*

According to data collected by the Roman catholic pastors, Márton Szűcs 
and József Kovács in. the strictest confidence; during the months of 
October, November and December of 1944. 34 491 Hungarians were killed in 
South Hungary in the territory of Bácska and Vajdasag. As the statistics 
were made several years ago according to the data which have been 
discovered since that time the number of the victims exceeds 40,000 per- 
sons. Because of the continuity of the discovering works this number is 
increasing day by day. It is also completed by the number of the 
Hungarian martyrs who lost their life because of the atrocity of 
Serbians after the decay of the Yugoslav communist regime.


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http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/pic/bigtrailer.jpg

(o:


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:15 EDT 2007
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If Beethoven would live today, he would be a Holocau$t denier/revisionist.
JS


Eugene Holman wrote:
> Yesterday I became the proud and ecstatically happy owner of an 
> extraordinary product: the complete works of Beethoven (not my absolute 
> favorite composer, but one whose music I have been enjoying since being 
> introduced to him by my grandfather as a child).
> 
> I am in the pleasurable progress of listening to evry note he ever 
> composed on the 87 CDs. I am enough of a Beethoven fan to be able to 
> discern that the performances that I have heard so far - including the 
> string quartets, the symphonies, Fidelio, the piano concertos, the piano 
> sonatas, the concertos for cello and piano [I've not slept very much 
> during the past 24 hours], while not musicological at the cutting edge 
> from the standpoint of interpretation, are competent and of very good to 
> excellent acoustic.
> 
> The amazing thing about this collection is the scandalously cheap price, 
> the equivalent of a modest restaurant meal for two. I will not divulge 
> it, but advise those interested to visit the home page: 
> http://www.beethoven-gesamtwerk.de/
> 
> I am in the process of listening to all 87 CDs and transferring their 
> content to my 500 GB hard disk. According to my calculations, the entire 
> thing will take up about 50 GBs.
> 
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:15 EDT 2007
Article: 1199881 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: WOW - Slandering Hitler with his own videos
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Joe Bruno wrote:
> On Jul 13, 9:30 pm, LIBERATOR  wrote:
>> Awesome video, and remember, the video you're watching all came from
>> Hitler and his film detachment. Note the actual sound of where & when
>> the video was shot, is overdubbed by narration of Allied intelligence
>> who provide this narrator.
> 
> 
> "Video"? There were no videocameras in 1945.
> 
> Don't you know the difference between film and videotape, idiot?

On Youtube, there is no film, moron! Videos!
Film is converted into compressed digital video, Mpg4, DivX etc...
JS


> 
>> The proof of guilt lies in the fact that the video is not left to its
>> original form, it is being narrated by Jew funded allied intelligence,
>> and as you expect, in the video, they say Hitler never won a actual
>> single election at 4:20.
>>
>> He hasn't? This was in 1933 that this narrator refers too. Is that
>> true or lie?
> 
> 
> It's true. Hitler and the Nazis never even got 40% of the German vote
> in 1933. Hitler was appointed Chancellor by President Hindenburg as
> part of a deal.
> 
> 
> 
>  I suspect it's lie, I do not know the chronology of the
>> first election that Hitler won. I would suspect that he won elections
>> in 1920s.
> 
> 
> Are you too fucking lazy to look it up, you ridiculous clown?
> 
> Damn, you are about the most useless and hapless human being I have
> seen in years.
> 
> 


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santaka13@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 14, 11:37 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> If Beethoven would live today, he would be a Holocau$t denier/revisionist.
>> JS
> 
> Now why would you say a thing like that?
> 
> Is there anything anywhere you have read which would in the slightest
> way tarnish Beethoven's reputation in regard to his attitude to Jews
> or anyone else?

If he hated Jews, why would Beethoven be less of a composer, idiot?
Are Jews influencing the statue of famous composers?
JS

> 
> If not, stop being ridiculous.
> 
> And I am tempted to add, that if Stalin had composed Beethovenesque
> music, well, so be it, I would still listen to it.
> 


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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 14, 8:37 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> If Beethoven would live today, he would be a Holocau$t denier/revisionist.
>> JS
> 
> Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbJqswLi3uE

How about this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul3kEUPlWy0&mode=related&search=
JS


> 
> 
> 
>>
>> Eugene Holman wrote:
>>> Yesterday I became the proud and ecstatically happy owner of an
>>> extraordinary product: the complete works of Beethoven (not my absolute
>>> favorite composer, but one whose music I have been enjoying since being
>>> introduced to him by my grandfather as a child).
>>> I am in the pleasurable progress of listening to evry note he ever
>>> composed on the 87 CDs. I am enough of a Beethoven fan to be able to
>>> discern that the performances that I have heard so far - including the
>>> string quartets, the symphonies, Fidelio, the piano concertos, the piano
>>> sonatas, the concertos for cello and piano [I've not slept very much
>>> during the past 24 hours], while not musicological at the cutting edge
>>> from the standpoint of interpretation, are competent and of very good to
>>> excellent acoustic.
>>> The amazing thing about this collection is the scandalously cheap price,
>>> the equivalent of a modest restaurant meal for two. I will not divulge
>>> it, but advise those interested to visit the home page:
>>> http://www.beethoven-gesamtwerk.de/
>>> I am in the process of listening to all 87 CDs and transferring their
>>> content to my 500 GB hard disk. According to my calculations, the entire
>>> thing will take up about 50 GBs.
>>> Regards,
>>> Eugene Holman- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> 


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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 14, 10:03 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> santak...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 14, 11:37 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>>>> If Beethoven would live today, he would be a Holocau$t denier/revisionist.
>>>> JS
>>> Now why would you say a thing like that?
>>> Is there anything anywhere you have read which would in the slightest
>>> way tarnish Beethoven's reputation in regard to his attitude to Jews
>>> or anyone else?
>> If he hated Jews, why would Beethoven be less of a composer, idiot?
>> Are Jews influencing the statue of famous composers?
>> JS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> If not, stop being ridiculous.
>>> And I am tempted to add, that if Stalin had composed Beethovenesque
>>> music, well, so be it, I would still listen to it.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> I don't believe there is any strong historical evidence Beethoven was
> antisemitic. With
> Richard Wagner, another fantastic composer, it was a different case.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

That's not the point here!
 >>Are Jews influencing the statue of famous composers?
 >> JS


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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 15, 9:36 am, J0N  wrote:
>> Einstein was more than a genius; he was a leader.http://togoni.blogspot.com/2007/07/leadership-quote-from-einstein.html
>>
>> Jonhttp://togoni.blogspot.comhttp://www.knowledgemanagementgateway.com
> 
> 
> He was a leader but he turned down an offer to become Israel's Prime
> Minister. He declined I think
> because he would be no good at it.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

He was no good in other things either.
His science was a fraud, he was plagiarist.
http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/MainPage.htm

He had an interesting wife, Mileva!
http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/

..and her grave!
http://www.teslasociety.com/mappeal.htm
Scroll down!
JS



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Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <1184505217.365603.322110@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> Leading Revisionist Scholar "Jason P," the best "revisionism"
> has to offer,   wrote:
> 
>> Within five minutes, any intelligent, open-minded person can be
>> convinced that the Holocaust gassings of World War II are a profitable
>> hoax.
> 
> Gosh... I've listened to this racist bullshit for 15 years, and none of your Leading
> Revisionist Scholars have convinced me. Duh.
> 
>> Fred A. Leuchter is America's leading specialist on the design and
>> fabrication of execution equipment, including homicidal gas chambers.
> 
> No, he is not. In fact, he has no expertise whatsoever, and was caught
> lying about it while under oath in a Canadian courtroom.
> 
> See http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-22.html for the sorid details.
> 
>> In 1991, the Polish government repeated these tests to disprove
>> Leuchter's findings, but they as well found no evidence of any
>> gassings ever occurring.
> 
> Outright lie, Leading Revisionist Scholar "Jason P," the best "revisionism" has to offer.
> 
> See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/institute-for-forensic-research/ for the
> correct data.
> 
>> Though six million Jews supposedly died in the gas chambers, not one
> 
> Please cite a single historian, anywhere, who has claimed that six million Jews
> "supposedly died in the gas chambers."

Six million is a lie, so you are correct McVay, six million didn't die 
in the gas chambers or die at all.
They live happily all over the world, off Holohoax pensions.

JS

> 
> I'll wait....
> 
>> Even The Diary of Anne Frank is a hoax. Portions of the diary were
>> written with a ball point pen. These pens were not in use at the time
>> Anne Frank lived.
> 
> Another outright lie. NO part of the diary was written in ballpoint.
> 
> See http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/f/ftp.py?people/f/frank.anne/anne.frank.002 for
> the forensic information.
> 
>> It is not denied concentration camps existed. Tragically, many died of
>> typhus or starvation, as often happens in such situations. There is,
>> however, no evidence that any gassings occurred for the reasons of
>> genocide.
> 
> The NAZIs deliberately subjected their victims to conditions of filth, exposure and
> disease in the camps - had they not wished for the death of untold thousands, they would
> not have subjected them to these conditions in the first place.
> 
>> (c) Institute for Historical Review P.O.Box 2739 Newport Beach, CA
>> 92659 Mark Weber is editor of the 'IHR Newsletter'  and associate editor
>> of the 'Journal of Historical Review'
> 
> Mark Weber? The ex-editor of the National Alliance hate magazine?
> The guy caught on tape hobnobbing with European paleo-NAZIs?
> THAT Mark Weber? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> (See http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/w/weber-mark/ for the sorid details.)
> 
> As to the IHR: http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/ihr/
> 
> You aren't very good at this, Jason, are you? 
> 
> 
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:17 EDT 2007
Article: 1200369 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1200369
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I say: Yes! - for sure!
Real McVay is a Holohoax script program, traveling the net and posting BS!
JS


Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> In article <1184625810.848077.49220@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> Leading Revisionist Scholar Theodore Herzl   wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>> US Army War Crimes Branch assigned doctors such as Dr. Charles P.
>> Larson, one of America's leading forensic pathologists who were
>> assigned to the US Army's Judge Advocate Generals Department, to
>> perform autopsies on many of the thousands of dead found in Germany's
>> concentration camps such as Dachau and 20 other camps at the end of
>> the war.   Although their mission was to uncover evidence of German
>> war crimes, those doctors never found any forensic evidence of
>> prisoner deaths from poison or poison gas, and never has any forensic
>> or other physical evidence supporting homicidal gassing ever been
>> found or presented by the Holocaust industry.     Even at the
> 
> And what, exactly, did Dr. Larson have to say?
> 
> "The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another. However, we did probe
> into such questions as, 'What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau?
> What did the Gestapo do with them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium.
> First, however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium
> where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then ordered to
> strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then
> they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens.
> I think this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they
> considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles.
> But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau
> were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities were totally inadequate. When
> people fell hopelessly ill and death was imminent, and when they grew so weak they could
> no longer work or function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi
> called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting well. Actually,
> the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination was the answer." ('Crime
> Doctor,' McCallum & Larson, p. 61. ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog
> Number: 78-16403) 
> 
> You aren't very good at this, are you, Bubba?
> 
> What does the leading German research institution have to offer with respect to Dachau,
> Bubba?
> 
> Let's see, shall we?
> 
> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/orgs/german/ftp.py?orgs/german/ifz/ifz.report
> 
> Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the establishment of
> a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established in it
> in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief company
> commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings were undertaken,
> as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see Gunther Kimmel:
> The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi crimes of violence in
> Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin Broszat and Elke Froehlich,
> Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.) Larger gassing operations
> have not taken place in Dachau.
> 
> Gosh, Leading Revisionist Scholar "Herzl," looks like you've been fibbing, 
> doesn't it?
> 
>> Nuremberg trials where precisely such evidence should have been
>> presented and certainly would have been expected, not a single shred
>> of physical or forensic evidence proving such a program existed was
>> ever presented.   .
> 
> Spoken like a man who has not read the Nurnberg transcripts, or reviewed 
> the documents (some 10,000 of them) entered into evidence there.
> 
>> The killer had been disease, especially typhus, brought on primarily
>> as an indirect but inevitable result of Allied bombing.
> 
> Horsepucky. The NAZIs deliberately created conditions of filth and
> exposure - conditions where disease thrived - and they did so as a
> part of their genocidal intentions.
> 
> Murder is murder, Bubba, no matter how it's done.
> 
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:17 EDT 2007
Article: 1200370 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: Re: Einstein's leadership
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 16, 6:00 am, "Binyamin Cramer" 
> wrote:
>> "Protagonist"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:rYidnYnn-4NJvAbbnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Michaelwrote:
>>>> On Jul 15, 9:36 am, J0N  wrote:
>>>>> Einstein was more than a genius; he was a
>>>>> leader.http://togoni.blogspot.com/2007/07/leadership-quote-from-einstein.html
>>>>> Jonhttp://togoni.blogspot.comhttp://www.knowledgemanagementgateway.com
>>>> He was a leader but he turned down an offer to become Israel's Prime
>>>> Minister. He declined I think
>>>> because he would be no good at it.
>>>> MichaelRagland
>>> He was no good in other things either.
>>> His science was a fraud, he was plagiarist.
>>> http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/MainPage.htm
>> He most certainly was.
>>
>> Italian Published E=mc2 Two
>> Years Before Einstein
>> By Rory Carroll in Rome
>> The Guardian - London
>> 2-5-2
>>
>> The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by
>> an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in
>> developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.
>>
>> Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation
>> E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a
>> mathematical historian.
>>
>> Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in
>> 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the
>> University of Perugia.
>>
>> De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity,
>> while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof
>> Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute,
>> but the equation's significance was not understood.
>>
>> A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in
>> 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for
>> his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's
>> contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's
>> most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.
>>
>> "De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the
>> first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe,
>> though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research,"
>> said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.
>>
>> Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if
>> the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A
>> footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which
>> the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the
>> mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .
>>
>> The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also
>> controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been
>> decisive.
>>
>> Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said:
>> "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been
>> credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the
>> idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.
>>
>> "De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it
>> should not detract from Einstein."
>>
>> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2001 Originally Published
>> 11-11-99
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> He had an interesting wife, Mileva!
>>> http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/
>>> ..and her grave!
>>> http://www.teslasociety.com/mappeal.htm
>>> Scroll down!
>>> JS- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> You could make the same argument about Charles Darwin; Alfred Wallace
> had come up with the theory of natural selection before Darwin but he
> hadn't traveled extensively to collect specimens and run tests. You
> could make the same argument about Crick and Watson; they took
> important data from Rosalind Franklin. It doesn't mean Darwin and
> Crick and Watson were plagiarists. According to theoretical physicist
> Stephen Hawking Einstein was the most important physicist in the 20th
> century and probably in all of history. Einstein's discoveries,
> including how to make a fissionable atomic bomb as well as innumerable
> other things show he wasn't a fake. Of course, Jew haters will always
> hate him and misrepresent him because he was a Jew.
> 
> Michael Ragland

Hmm! Like if Hawking were all ways right!
http://www.meta-religion.com/Astronomy/Black_Holes/hawking_admits.htm
JS

> 


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Curly C wrote:
> http://judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm

How was she captured?
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:18 EDT 2007
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 15, 9:34 am, KeeponChoog...@webtv.net (Curly C) wrote:
>> http://judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm
> 
> 
> I believe in the Belsen Trial Grese admitted to the mass gassing of
> Jews taking place. She lied continously about her own
> responsibility and culpability in committing crimes.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

Of course, admit or sign any thing under torture.
JS


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Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
> Archive/File: camps/buchenwald/murrow.1
> Last-modified: 1994/02/21
> 
> "Dr. Heller, the Czech, asked if I would care to see the crematorium.
> He said it wouldn't be very interesting, because the Germans had run
> out of coke some days ago and had taken to dumping the bodies into a
> great hole nearby.
> 
> ...
> 
> But the manner of death seemed seemed unimportant. Murder had been
> done at Buchenwald. God knows how many men and boys had died there
> during the last twelve years. Thursday, I was told that there were
> more than twenty thousand in the camp. There had been as many as sixty
> thousand. Where are they now?"
> 
> from Edward R. Murrow's CBC broadcast describing conditions at
> Buchenwald on the day of liberation, April 10, 1945.

McVay is desperate!
Nothing else to dig up, McVay?
Haha!
JS


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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 16, 8:49 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On Jul 16, 6:00 am, "Binyamin Cramer" 
>>> wrote:
>>>> "Protagonist"  wrote in message
>>>> news:rYidnYnn-4NJvAbbnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>> Michaelwrote:
>>>>>> On Jul 15, 9:36 am, J0N  wrote:
>>>>>>> Einstein was more than a genius; he was a
>>>>>>> leader.http://togoni.blogspot.com/2007/07/leadership-quote-from-einstein.html
>>>>>>> Jonhttp://togoni.blogspot.comhttp://www.knowledgemanagementgateway.com
>>>>>> He was a leader but he turned down an offer to become Israel's Prime
>>>>>> Minister. He declined I think
>>>>>> because he would be no good at it.
>>>>>> MichaelRagland
>>>>> He was no good in other things either.
>>>>> His science was a fraud, he was plagiarist.
>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/MainPage.htm
>>>> He most certainly was.
>>>> Italian Published E=mc2 Two
>>>> Years Before Einstein
>>>> By Rory Carroll in Rome
>>>> The Guardian - London
>>>> 2-5-2
>>>> The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by
>>>> an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in
>>>> developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.
>>>> Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation
>>>> E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a
>>>> mathematical historian.
>>>> Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in
>>>> 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the
>>>> University of Perugia.
>>>> De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity,
>>>> while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof
>>>> Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute,
>>>> but the equation's significance was not understood.
>>>> A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in
>>>> 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for
>>>> his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's
>>>> contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's
>>>> most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.
>>>> "De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the
>>>> first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe,
>>>> though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research,"
>>>> said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.
>>>> Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if
>>>> the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A
>>>> footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which
>>>> the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the
>>>> mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .
>>>> The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also
>>>> controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been
>>>> decisive.
>>>> Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said:
>>>> "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been
>>>> credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the
>>>> idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.
>>>> "De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it
>>>> should not detract from Einstein."
>>>> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2001 Originally Published
>>>> 11-11-99
>>>>> He had an interesting wife, Mileva!
>>>>> http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/
>>>>> ..and her grave!
>>>>> http://www.teslasociety.com/mappeal.htm
>>>>> Scroll down!
>>>>> JS- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> You could make the same argument about Charles Darwin; Alfred Wallace
>>> had come up with the theory of natural selection before Darwin but he
>>> hadn't traveled extensively to collect specimens and run tests. You
>>> could make the same argument about Crick and Watson; they took
>>> important data from Rosalind Franklin. It doesn't mean Darwin and
>>> Crick and Watson were plagiarists. According to theoretical physicist
>>> Stephen Hawking Einstein was the most important physicist in the 20th
>>> century and probably in all of history. Einstein's discoveries,
>>> including how to make a fissionable atomic bomb as well as innumerable
>>> other things show he wasn't a fake. Of course, Jew haters will always
>>> hate him and misrepresent him because he was a Jew.
>>> Michael Ragland
>> Hmm! Like if Hawking were all ways right!http://www.meta-religion.com/Astronomy/Black_Holes/hawking_admits.htm
>> JS
>>
>>
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> 
> Nobody is right about everything all the time and that includes the
> Holocaust. I made a mistake recently. I went by
> the old figure of 4 million gassed to death at Auschwitz. I learned by
> a Holocaust denier those numbers had been
> revised and only about a million died.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

Not even a million, they still inflating. That number is based on 
transportation figures, no proof for the exact numbers for the death.
Germans kept precise records of every death, Soviet archive only shows 
93,000, not complete though!
Conservative estimates are around 250,000 for Auschwitz.
Last few years we found out, all the records are stored in Germany, but 
they wont release it, at least not soon.
60 minutes had piece on it last winter.
According to the 60 minutes report, Germans even kept records of the 
different size of lice found on inmates and all the letters went in and 
out of the camps.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/60minutes/main2267927.shtml

So just don't believe the Jewish version, they only know estimates and 
there are no records what so ever.
JS






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Staff Sergeant sprays a liberated prisoner with DDT in an effort to 
prevent the spread of Typhus
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=18

Women collect their rations of bread from one of the cookhouses.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=58

Hungarian troops distribute food outside one of the huts.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=65

Survivors being evacuated to Bergen-Belsen Barracks (now Bergen-Hohne).
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=71

http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=76
A woman, wrapped in a blanket since they were not permitted to take 
their clothing out of the camp, is carried out of one of the huts during 
the evacuation

Picture shows well, typhus victim skinny body and healthy survivors!
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=99


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A GERMAN GIRL'S HEROIC DEATH
by J. Belling
Irma Grese was only 21 years old when she became a defendant at the 
infamous Belsen Trial. Few would have imagined that the young and 
beautiful Grese was capable of committing the crimes of which she was 
accused.

The testimony from the Belsen Trial indicates that Miss Grese was an SS 
Aufseherin, or Overseer, who was assigned duties along with seven other 
women to guard over 20-30 thousand inmates, most of them Hungarian 
Jewesses detained at Auschwitz. Indeed, it was more for her tenure of 
service at Auschwitz, rather than Belsen, for which she was charged and 
convicted. The circumstances of her case clearly indicate that Grese was 
simply a victim of malicious gossip and accusations made by ex-prisoners 
hell bent on exacting their ounce of blood from their former guards. 
Unjust accusations of this sort are not uncommon within prisons. 
However, in our justice system, such complaints are often not acted 
upon, as it is only to be expected that the detained will harbour 
resentments against their guards. This is not to say that mistreatment 
in prisons does not occur. Undoubtedly it does.

In the case of Irma Grese, one should simply reflect on the fact that it 
is not easy to manage 20-30,000 inmates. Auschwitz was a detention 
center, where criminals were freely interspersed among those simply 
being held in protective custody. As a young woman of rather slight 
stature it is only common sense to assume that as a guard among so many 
prisoners, Miss Grese took measures to safeguard her own safety. Thus, 
it has been reported that she carried a stick with her and was often 
escorted by a dog. In correctional facilities all over the world, such 
measures are commonplace among staff members justifiably concerned with 
their own safety. The usual mistake made in evaluating cases like Irma 
Grese is that the average person is more or less unaware that guards at 
Auschwitz had every legal right to take measures to ensure their own 
safety and to maintain order.

Grese joined the SS in 1942, against the wishes of her father, and was 
stationed for a time at Ravensbrueck, a camp for women. In 1943 she was 
transferred to Auschwitz and stationed in Birkenau. How she actually 
came to be a member of the SS is unclear. According to her testimony, 
she was sent to work in the camps by the German Labour Exchange. 
Obviously the recruiting and acceptance criteria for female members of 
the SS was different from that of males, although I have been unable to 
uncover any guidelines. At any rate, Grese remained at Auschwitz until 
January, 1945, after which she was sent on to Belsen at her own request. 
If she had been sent to any other camp, we most likely would never have 
even heard of her.

Grese's duties at Auschwitz varied. Most of her work was rather benign, 
such as sorting through parcels and overseeing construction projects. 
However, from May until December, 1944, Grese was appointed senior 
Aufseherin for Compound C which turned out to be the eventual cause of 
her undoing. There she had to oversee 20-30,000 Hungarian Jewesses, all 
held in protective custody. The huge influx of detainees created 
problems which were addressed with difficulty by the relatively young 
and inexperienced Grese. Most of the problems centered around the 
distribution of food. The overcrowding also led to sanitation problems, 
which Grese was scarcely capable of handling. The detainees themselves 
helped to create many of the problem situations, as at Belsen, where 
they urinated and defecated whenever and wherever the urge struck them. 
They also filled the latrines and compound with trash and filth, so much 
so that the latrines eventually ceased to function.
This would explain the pervasive stench around Auschwitz and another 
reason why it was referred to as Anus Mundi.

Grese was accused of beating prisoners herself or ordering then to be 
beaten. Grese herself admitted that she sometimes struck prisoners with 
a cellophane whip and gave orders that anyone caught stealing from the 
kitchens was to be beaten. While this seems harsh, one should bear in
mind that the prisoners who stole food from the kitchens were actually 
stealing the food right out of the mouths of fellow prisoners at a time 
when food itself was scarce. Thus their crime of theft was particularly 
grievous, and undoubtedly warranted strict punishment.

As head Aufseherin, Grese was also responsible for conducting roll call. 
Often prisoners were compelled to stand for hours until the roll call 
was verified as correct. However, this is common procedure at any 
institution and should not particularly concern us here. Grese was 
accused of administering vicious beatings. However, the accusations were 
never proven. At Belsen, she was too horrified at the condition of the 
sick inmates to even approach them.

Grese's comments about the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz are most 
interesting. She never saw a gas chamber, but remarked that she heard 
about them from prisoners. Other SS staff also seemed to know nothing 
about them save what the prisoners rumored. Thus, when she wrote SB for 
Sonder Behandlung in her strength book, she assumed that these people 
were sent to the rumoured gas chambers.

There is no doubt that Miss Grese struck prisoners, but there is also no 
doubt that the prisoners deliberately exaggerated their alleged 
mistreatment. They often embellished each and every little tale and 
accusation of beating. Grese's testimony rings of truth and candidness, 
quite alike the testimony of many of her accusers. Much ado was made 
over the accusation that Grese was always accompanied by a fierce dog, 
which she set upon the prisoners for amusement. Grese denied ever
having a dog. In fact, the matter could have been cleared up by asking 
the other Aufseherin who worked with her, but neither the prosecution 
nor the defense ever pursued this line of questioning as they should have.

Though the prosecutor tried his best, it was my feeling that he failed 
to connect Irma Grese with any crimes which would have warranted the 
imposition of the death penalty. He was unable to connect her to any 
alleged gassings, as well as any individual cases of murder. The curious 
thing about the accusations is that the victims were all anonymous. Not 
one alleged victim of murder was ever mentioned by name by any of the 
accusors. Of course, that is only because their accusations were false. 
Though the prosecutor attempted to portray Miss Grese in a negative 
light after her transfer to Belsen, he failed, IMO. Most of Miss Grese's 
time at Belsen was taken up with preparing funerals for SS staff members 
who were also dropping like flies in the camp due to the typhus epidemic.

Summing up, it is clear that Irma Grese did not deserve the death 
penalty, as the prosecution failed to live up to the burden of proof 
which would be required in any impartial court today. Clearly Miss
Grese was guilty of striking prisoners on occasion, but this was usually 
for some offense or infraction of one sort or another,. As usual, the 
professional witnesses and survivors failed to get their stories 
straight and their testimony differed considerably from their written 
affidavits.

It was hardly necessary for an allied court to try Miss Grese on charges 
of mistreating prisoners in a detention camp, which was legally 
instituted by the legitimate government of Germany. Such offenses as 
beating prisoners could easily have been handled by the German 
authorities themselves. However, it WAS necessary that examples be made 
in 1945-46. Thus, Miss Grese was convicted and sentenced to death. 
Neither her youth nor the truth saved her life from being terminated by 
some stuffy old English Judge faithfully fulfilling the orders and 
expectations of his own government. Under the guise of legality, Irma 
Grese was lynched.

In EXECUTIONER, his his book of memoirs, the English hangman Albert 
Pierrepoint described Irma Grese's last hours on earth with an 
admiration for her beauty, her courage, and her dignity he could
barely conceal. He referred to her as a "bonnie lassie" and said she 
spent the night before her execution singing "Nazi songs" with her 
fellow condemned inmates. She was hanged the next morning along with two 
other German women, nurses Elisabeth Volkenrath and Juana Bormann.
Irma Grese was led to the gallows first, and Pierrepoint wrote that as 
he slipped the noose around her neck and pulled the hood down over her 
face she gave him an "enigmatic smile" which haunted him for the rest of 
his life. "She was the bravest prisoner, man or woman, whom I ever 
hanged," he concluded.
(From EXECUTIONER, by Albert Pierrepoint).

Woman though she was, Irma Grese upheld the honour and tradition of the 
SS to the last, as much as any decorated veteran of Stalingrad or Kursk 
ever did.





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Information on the Belsen trial.

http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/belsenfwd.htm

Interesting issues arising(focusing on Irma Grese):-

1. Irma Grese faced three counts of causing death by shooting. None were 
coroborated.

2. One witness(Auschwitz) testified that Irma Grese had a dog at the 
Birkenau Women's Camp, and she allowed this dog to attack and savage 
prisoners. The Court had heard the accused deny that she ever had a dog, 
and that has been corroborated by others of the accused and by other 
witnesses(survivors) from Auschwitz.

3. Another witness(Auschwitz) stated;
"At a selection a Hungarian woman tried to escape and join her daughter. 
Grese noticed this and ordered one of the S.S. guards to shoot the 
woman. I did not hear the order but I saw Grese speak to the guard and 
he shot at once."
Irma Grese held a senior position in the Birkenau Womens Camp, but the
Aufseherinnen did not have jurisdiction over members of the SS. They 
were in every way subordinate to their SS colleagues. Grese may have 
identified the woman to the guard, and he may have shot the prisoner, 
but she was not in a position to issue an order.

4. Another witness(Auschwitz) stated that she saw Irma Grese shoot two 
girls dead by firing out of an open window. It was found that windows in 
the block in question could not be opened.

5. Another witness(Auschwitz) testified that she saw Irma Grese shoot a 
female prisoner(in August 1944) who was outside of her barracks during a 
camp wide lockdown. The witness testified that she had been secretly 
observing all of this action from inside her barracks.
At the trial it was identified that the witness's barracks were more 
than 150 feet away, and the camp was in lock-down, which meant that all 
windows were closed and shuttered.

6. Irma Grese held a firearms licence(thanks Mike), and was permitted to 
carry a sidearm(pistol). Grese only started to carry a pistol in 
November 1944, two months before the liberation of Auschwitz by the 
Soviet Amy. See date in number 5 above.

7. An eyewitness and survivor of Birkenau Women's Camp swore under oath 
that Grese supervised the Strafkommando(Punishment Batallion) for seven 
months. Grese said at the trial(also under oath) that she supervised the 
Strafkommando for two days. Grese was given this task as punishment for 
a minor violation of camp rules. The eyewitness and survivor in question 
was loathed by camp prisoners and guards alike because of her 
"proclivity to latch onto whatever cause that could give her the best 
opportunity for advancement and/or safety." At Auschwitz, she was part 
prisoner, part Kapo and part informer. After the evacuation of 
Auschwitz, the eyewitness and survivor was moved to Belsen where she 
worked for the Camp Gestapo.

8. Before her promotion to Senior Supervisor at Birkenau Women's Camp, 
Grese worked in the Auschwitz mail-room, answered telephones, and worked 
in the Kommandants gardening squad. She was assigned to the mail room in 
December 1943 and the gardening squad in Autumn of 1943.

9. Grese was promoted as she performed her assignments to the required 
standard. With the arrival of the Hungarian Jews in May 1944, Grese was 
informed that she would have charge of 30,000 female prisoners in C 
Lager of Birkenau. A survivor testified that he saw Grese send 
"thousands and thousands of people, ill and in quite good health, to the 
gas chambers."
Research at the time would likely have revealed, and now it can be said 
with surety that no Aufseherin was ever authorized in the entire history 
of the camp to supervise so-called selections, which was the exclusive 
domain of the camp physicians. This does not mean that Aufseherin were 
not present at selections, it means that they did not conduct them.

10. Irma Grese did carry a whip, and did use it against prisoners. This 
whip was made of cellophane. At the trial, Grese denied carrying a 
rubber truncheon both at Birkenau and Belsen. Rubber truncheons were not 
issued to any Camp personnel or to any arm of the German Police service. 
It is a British instrument of coercion.

It would be wrong and a grave disservice to both survivors and those not 
so fortunate to argue that the evidence put forward at War Crimes trials 
is completely unreliable. What the above points show is that there were 
a number of inconsistencies in sworn evidence provided at the Belsen 
trail, and these inconsistencies were not explored to their fullest. 
Irma Grese was the 'Beautiful Beast' and therefore she must have been 
guilty of all charges filed against her. It is only when you read the 
affadavits and testimonies you question whether this really was the case.


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Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article ,
>  Protagonist  wrote:
> 
>> A GERMAN GIRL'S HEROIC DEATH
>> by J. Belling
> 
> You KNOW they're completely desperate when they start quoting good ole 
> Joe Bellinger.
> 
> Sara
> 

Oh sure!
Irma Grese was accused of killing and torturing 30 people a day, so she 
just sat around waiting for the allies to come to get a medal for being 
the serial killer of the 20th century.
Right, Sara?
JS



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Sara Salzman wrote:
> In article <-oGdnSvkF_haKAPbnZ2dnUVZ_g6dnZ2d@comcast.com>,
>  Protagonist  wrote:
> 
>> Sara Salzman wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>>  Protagonist  wrote:
>>>
>>>> A GERMAN GIRL'S HEROIC DEATH
>>>> by J. Belling
>>> You KNOW they're completely desperate when they start quoting good ole 
>>> Joe Bellinger.
>>>
>>> Sara
>>>
>> Oh sure!
>> Irma Grese was accused of killing and torturing 30 people a day, so she 
>> just sat around waiting for the allies to come to get a medal for being 
>> the serial killer of the 20th century.
>> Right, Sara?
>> JS
> 
> Oh sure!
> 
> And she was such a paragon of virtue that she managed to get herself 
> knocked up while a prisoner of the Allies by "consorting" with other SS 
> prisoners.
> 
> Right, Szaki?
> 

May be you were knocked up, eh!
I sure, wouldn't sit around waiting for the Allies, if I killed 30 
people or even 1 a day!
This must be another Jewish BS propaganda, for idiot Zionists like you 
to believe!
JS


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Seems, every one ignoring these series of photos taken at Bergen-Belsen.
Shows sharp contrast of healthy inmates and the one infected with 
typhus, bone skinny bodies.
Even the Allies made lot of effort to curb the disease.
JS


Staff Sergeant sprays a liberated prisoner with DDT in an effort to 
prevent the spread of Typhus
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=18

Women collect their rations of bread from one of the cookhouses.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=58

Hungarian troops distribute food outside one of the huts.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=65

Survivors being evacuated to Bergen-Belsen Barracks (now Bergen-Hohne).
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=71

http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=76
A woman, wrapped in a blanket since they were not permitted to take 
their clothing out of the camp, is carried out of one of the huts during 
the evacuation

Picture shows well, typhus victim skinny body and healthy survivors!
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=99


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US did it to his own soldiers, by have them watch the nuclear test close by.
Many died later in cancers and leukemia.
I'm not even mentioning Hiroshima or Nagasaki!
JS

Michael wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Experiments
> The German physicians who ran SS and Wehrmacht medical institutions,
> along with medical personnel at lower levels, participated actively in
> carrying out Nazi extermination plans. SS physicians assigned to the
> concentration camps, including Auschwitz, played a special role. They
> conducted criminal medical experiments on prisoners and committed
> other acts that violated medical ethics. Having furthered the
> extermination program in the concentration camps, they have gone down
> in history as medical criminals.
> 
> The SS physicians who carried out pseudo-medical experiments in
> Auschwitz included:
> 
> Professor Dr. Carl Clauberg
> 
> He experimented with sterilization in the camp. Part of Block No. 10
> in the Main Camp was put at his disposal. Several hundred Jewish women
> from various countries lived in two large rooms on the second floor of
> the building. Clauberg developed a method of non-surgical mass
> sterilization that consisted of introducing into the female
> reproductive organs a specially prepared chemical irritant that
> produced sever inflammation. Within several weeks, the fallopian tubes
> grew shut and were blocked. Clauberg's experiments killed some of his
> subjects, and others were put to death so that autopsies could be
> performed.
> In June 1943, Clauberg wrote to Himmler:
> "The non-surgical method of sterilizing women that I have invented is
> now almost perfected . . . As for the questions that you have directed
> to me, sir, I can today answer them in the way that I had anticipated:
> if the research that I am carrying out continues to yield the sort of
> results that it has produced so far (and there is no reason to suppose
> that this shall not be the case), then I shall be able to report in
> the foreseeable future that one experienced physician, with an
> appropriately equipped office and the aid of ten auxiliary personnel,
> will be able to carry out in the course of a single day the
> sterilization of hundreds, or even 1,000 women."
> 
> Dr. Horst Schumann
> 
> Like Clauberg, Schumann was searching for a convenient means of mass
> sterilization that would enable the Third Reich to carry out the
> biological destruction of conquered nations by "scientific methods"--
> through depriving people of their reproductive capacity. "X-ray
> sterilization" equipment was set up for Schumann in one of the
> barracks at Birkenau. Every so often, several dozen Jewish men and
> women prisoners were brought in. The sterilization experiments
> consisted of exposing the women's ovaries and the men's testes to X-
> rays. Schumann applied various intensities at various intervals in his
> search for the optimal dose of radiation. The exposure to radiation
> produced severe burns on the belly, groin, and buttocks areas of the
> subjects, and festering sores that were resistant to healing. Many
> subjects died from complications. The results of the X-ray
> sterilization experiments were unsatisfactory. In an article that he
> sent to Himmler in April 1944, titled "The Effect of X-Ray Radiation
> on the human Reproductive Glands," Schumann expressed a preference for
> surgical castration, as being quicker and more certain.
> 
> Dr. Mengele
> 
> Josef Mengele held a Ph.D. and a medical doctorate. In close
> collaboration with the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology,
> Genetics, and Eugenics, he studied the phenomena of twins, as well as
> the physiology and pathology of dwarfism. He was also interested in
> people with different-colored irises and in the etiology and treatment
> of noma ("water cancer" of the cheek). This latter disease, widespread
> in the Gypsy Camp, had been previously almost unknown in Europe.
> Mengeles first experimental subjects were Gypsy children. He had a
> laboratory in the so-called "Gypsy Family Camp." On Mengele's orders,
> children suffering from noma were put to death in order for pathology
> investigations to be carried out. Organs and even complete heads of
> children were preserved and sent in jars to institutions including the
> Medical Academy in Graz, Austria.
> Mengele also began selecting dwarves and persons with physical
> peculiarities (including inborn disabilities and the developmental
> defects that appear in dwarfism) from the Jewish transports brought to
> Birkenau for extermination, from the Jewish "Theresienstadt Family
> Camp" in Birkenau, and from the so-called Mexico (Sector BIII).
> In the first phase of his experiments, Mengele subjected pairs twins
> and people with physical handicaps to special medical examinations
> that could be carried out on the living organism. Usually painful and
> exhausting, these examinations lasted for hours and were a difficult
> experience for starved, terrified children (for such were the majority
> of the twins). The subjects were photographed, plaster casts were made
> of their teeth and jaws, and their fingerprints and toeprints were
> taken. As soon as the examinations of a given pair of twins or dwarf
> were finished, Mengele ordered them killed by phenol injection so that
> he could go on to the next phase of his experiments, the comparative
> analysis of internal organs at autopsy. "Scientifically" interesting
> anatomical specimens were preserved and shipped to the Institute in
> Berlin-Dahlem for more detailed examination.
> 
> Dr Johann Paul Kremer
> 
> The killing of prisoners was also accompanied by research into the
> changes that occur in the human organism as a result of starvation--in
> particular, liver atrophy ("braune Atrophie"). This research was
> carried out at Auschwitz Concentration Camp by SS-Obersturmführer
> Johann Paul Kremer, M.D., Ph.D., professor at the University of
> Münster, where he lectured on anatomy and human genetics. At the Block
> No. 28 clinic in the main camp, he carried out assessments of
> prisoners attempting to gain admission to the hospital. Many of them
> were at the point of exhaustion, in the "Musselman" state, in the
> final stages of starvation to death. Kremer ordered most of them
> killed by phenol injection. Kremer selected prisoners who struck him
> as particularly good experimental material, and questioned them just
> before their deaths, as they lay on the autopsy table awaiting
> injection, about such personal details as their weight before arrest
> and any medicines they had used recently. In some cases, he ordered
> these prisoners photographed. Before their bodies were cold, they were
> subjected to autopsies and slides were made for Kremer of the liver,
> spleen, and pancreas.
> 
> SS physicians Friedrich Entress, Helmuth Vetter, and Eduard Wirths
> 
> In 1941-1944, SS camp physicians Friedrich Entress, Helmuth Vetter,
> and Eduard Wirths carried out clinical trials of the tolerance and
> efficacy of new medications and drugs, with such ode names as B-1012,
> B-1O34, B-1O36, 3582, P-111, rutenolu, and peristonu, on Auschwitz
> Concentration Camp prisoners. They did so on commission from IG
> Farbenindustrie, and particularly from the Bayer firm, which was part
> of that cartel. These preparations were given to prisoners suffering
> from contagious diseases, who had in many cases been deliberately
> infected.
> 
> Prof. Dr. August Hirt
> 
> In 1942, SS-Hauptsturmführer Prof. Dr. August Hirt, chairman of the
> anatomy department at the Reich University in Strassburg, set about
> assembling a collection of Jewish skeletons under the auspices of the
> Ahnenerbe Foundation. To this end, he received permission from Himmler
> to select the required number of prisoners at Auschwitz Concentration
> Camp. The selection of 115 persons (79 Jewish men, 30 Jewish women, 2
> Poles, and 4 "Asians"--probably Soviet POWs) and the preliminary
> preparation, consisting of biometrical measurements and the collection
> of personal data, were carried out by Hirt's collaborator, SS-
> Hauptsturmführer Dr. Bruno Beger, who arrived in Auschwitz in the
> first half of 1943. Berger finished his work by June 15, 1943. After
> going through quarantine, some of the prisoners whom Berger selected
> were sent in July and early August to Natzweiler-Struthof
> Concentration Camp, where they were killed in the gas chamber. The
> victims' corpses were sent to Hirt as material for his skeleton
> collection, which was intended for use in anthropological studies that
> would demonstrate the superiority of the Nordic race.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See also :
> The Establishment of the Camp
> The Expansion of the Camp
> The Crematoria and Gas Chambers
> Number and Origins of the Victims
> Liberation
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> History of KL Auschwitz | Museum | Visiting the Memorial | How You Can
> Help | Publications | Latest News | Links | Search | About the site |
> E-Mail
> 


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http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=99

Nice contrast of healthy inmates vs. sick in typhus.
JS


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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 18, 2:19 am, Protagonist  wrote:
>> A GERMAN GIRL'S HEROIC DEATH
>> by J. Belling
>> Irma Grese was only 21 years old when she became a defendant at the
>> infamous Belsen Trial. Few would have imagined that the young and
>> beautiful Grese was capable of committing the crimes of which she was
>> accused.
>>
>> The testimony from the Belsen Trial indicates that Miss Grese was an SS
>> Aufseherin, or Overseer, who was assigned duties along with seven other
>> women to guard over 20-30 thousand inmates, most of them Hungarian
>> Jewesses detained at Auschwitz. Indeed, it was more for her tenure of
>> service at Auschwitz, rather than Belsen, for which she was charged and
>> convicted. The circumstances of her case clearly indicate that Grese was
>> simply a victim of malicious gossip and accusations made by ex-prisoners
>> hell bent on exacting their ounce of blood from their former guards.
>> Unjust accusations of this sort are not uncommon within prisons.
>> However, in our justice system, such complaints are often not acted
>> upon, as it is only to be expected that the detained will harbour
>> resentments against their guards. This is not to say that mistreatment
>> in prisons does not occur. Undoubtedly it does.
>>
>> In the case of Irma Grese, one should simply reflect on the fact that it
>> is not easy to manage 20-30,000 inmates. Auschwitz was a detention
>> center, where criminals were freely interspersed among those simply
>> being held in protective custody. As a young woman of rather slight
>> stature it is only common sense to assume that as a guard among so many
>> prisoners, Miss Grese took measures to safeguard her own safety. Thus,
>> it has been reported that she carried a stick with her and was often
>> escorted by a dog. In correctional facilities all over the world, such
>> measures are commonplace among staff members justifiably concerned with
>> their own safety. The usual mistake made in evaluating cases like Irma
>> Grese is that the average person is more or less unaware that guards at
>> Auschwitz had every legal right to take measures to ensure their own
>> safety and to maintain order.
>>
>> Grese joined the SS in 1942, against the wishes of her father, and was
>> stationed for a time at Ravensbrueck, a camp for women. In 1943 she was
>> transferred to Auschwitz and stationed in Birkenau. How she actually
>> came to be a member of the SS is unclear. According to her testimony,
>> she was sent to work in the camps by the German Labour Exchange.
>> Obviously the recruiting and acceptance criteria for female members of
>> the SS was different from that of males, although I have been unable to
>> uncover any guidelines. At any rate, Grese remained at Auschwitz until
>> January, 1945, after which she was sent on to Belsen at her own request.
>> If she had been sent to any other camp, we most likely would never have
>> even heard of her.
>>
>> Grese's duties at Auschwitz varied. Most of her work was rather benign,
>> such as sorting through parcels and overseeing construction projects.
>> However, from May until December, 1944, Grese was appointed senior
>> Aufseherin for Compound C which turned out to be the eventual cause of
>> her undoing. There she had to oversee 20-30,000 Hungarian Jewesses, all
>> held in protective custody. The huge influx of detainees created
>> problems which were addressed with difficulty by the relatively young
>> and inexperienced Grese. Most of the problems centered around the
>> distribution of food. The overcrowding also led to sanitation problems,
>> which Grese was scarcely capable of handling. The detainees themselves
>> helped to create many of the problem situations, as at Belsen, where
>> they urinated and defecated whenever and wherever the urge struck them.
>> They also filled the latrines and compound with trash and filth, so much
>> so that the latrines eventually ceased to function.
>> This would explain the pervasive stench around Auschwitz and another
>> reason why it was referred to as Anus Mundi.
>>
>> Grese was accused of beating prisoners herself or ordering then to be
>> beaten. Grese herself admitted that she sometimes struck prisoners with
>> a cellophane whip and gave orders that anyone caught stealing from the
>> kitchens was to be beaten. While this seems harsh, one should bear in
>> mind that the prisoners who stole food from the kitchens were actually
>> stealing the food right out of the mouths of fellow prisoners at a time
>> when food itself was scarce. Thus their crime of theft was particularly
>> grievous, and undoubtedly warranted strict punishment.
>>
>> As head Aufseherin, Grese was also responsible for conducting roll call.
>> Often prisoners were compelled to stand for hours until the roll call
>> was verified as correct. However, this is common procedure at any
>> institution and should not particularly concern us here. Grese was
>> accused of administering vicious beatings. However, the accusations were
>> never proven. At Belsen, she was too horrified at the condition of the
>> sick inmates to even approach them.
>>
>> Grese's comments about the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz are most
>> interesting. She never saw a gas chamber, but remarked that she heard
>> about them from prisoners. Other SS staff also seemed to know nothing
>> about them save what the prisoners rumored. Thus, when she wrote SB for
>> Sonder Behandlung in her strength book, she assumed that these people
>> were sent to the rumoured gas chambers.
>>
>> There is no doubt that Miss Grese struck prisoners, but there is also no
>> doubt that the prisoners deliberately exaggerated their alleged
>> mistreatment. They often embellished each and every little tale and
>> accusation of beating. Grese's testimony rings of truth and candidness,
>> quite alike the testimony of many of her accusers. Much ado was made
>> over the accusation that Grese was always accompanied by a fierce dog,
>> which she set upon the prisoners for amusement. Grese denied ever
>> having a dog. In fact, the matter could have been cleared up by asking
>> the other Aufseherin who worked with her, but neither the prosecution
>> nor the defense ever pursued this line of questioning as they should have.
>>
>> Though the prosecutor tried his best, it was my feeling that he failed
>> to connect Irma Grese with any crimes which would have warranted the
>> imposition of the death penalty. He was unable to connect her to any
>> alleged gassings, as well as any individual cases of murder. The curious
>> thing about the accusations is that the victims were all anonymous. Not
>> one alleged victim of murder was ever mentioned by name by any of the
>> accusors. Of course, that is only because their accusations were false.
>> Though the prosecutor attempted to portray Miss Grese in a negative
>> light after her transfer to Belsen, he failed, IMO. Most of Miss Grese's
>> time at Belsen was taken up with preparing funerals for SS staff members
>> who were also dropping like flies in the camp due to the typhus epidemic.
>>
>> Summing up, it is clear that Irma Grese did not deserve the death
>> penalty, as the prosecution failed to live up to the burden of proof
>> which would be required in any impartial court today. Clearly Miss
>> Grese was guilty of striking prisoners on occasion, but this was usually
>> for some offense or infraction of one sort or another,. As usual, the
>> professional witnesses and survivors failed to get their stories
>> straight and their testimony differed considerably from their written
>> affidavits.
>>
>> It was hardly necessary for an allied court to try Miss Grese on charges
>> of mistreating prisoners in a detention camp, which was legally
>> instituted by the legitimate government of Germany. Such offenses as
>> beating prisoners could easily have been handled by the German
>> authorities themselves. However, it WAS necessary that examples be made
>> in 1945-46. Thus, Miss Grese was convicted and sentenced to death.
>> Neither her youth nor the truth saved her life from being terminated by
>> some stuffy old English Judge faithfully fulfilling the orders and
>> expectations of his own government. Under the guise of legality, Irma
>> Grese was lynched.
>>
>> In EXECUTIONER, his his book of memoirs, the English hangman Albert
>> Pierrepoint described Irma Grese's last hours on earth with an
>> admiration for her beauty, her courage, and her dignity he could
>> barely conceal. He referred to her as a "bonnie lassie" and said she
>> spent the night before her execution singing "Nazi songs" with her
>> fellow condemned inmates. She was hanged the next morning along with two
>> other German women, nurses Elisabeth Volkenrath and Juana Bormann.
>> Irma Grese was led to the gallows first, and Pierrepoint wrote that as
>> he slipped the noose around her neck and pulled the hood down over her
>> face she gave him an "enigmatic smile" which haunted him for the rest of
>> his life. "She was the bravest prisoner, man or woman, whom I ever
>> hanged," he concluded.
>> (From EXECUTIONER, by Albert Pierrepoint).
>>
>> Woman though she was, Irma Grese upheld the honour and tradition of the
>> SS to the last, as much as any decorated veteran of Stalingrad or Kursk
>> ever did.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, you have an infatuation with Grese. I wouldn't want to be an
> inmate
> facing the tail of her whip or pistol. She was found guilty and hung.
> I know very
> little about her except for her reportedly savage sadism at Auschwitz
> and Belsen.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

I sure, wouldn't sit around waiting for the Allies, if I killed 30 
people or even 1 a day!
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:23 EDT 2007
Article: 1200825 of alt.revisionism
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RJ11 wrote:
> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
> 
> 
> RJ.

Typhus victims, eh?
Why you showing them, idiot?
Guards at Bergen-Belsen didn't run away, shows they were innocent.
Still the Allies murdered them, without trial!
JS


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Article: 1200826 of alt.revisionism
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RJ11 wrote:
>    SS women from Belsen:
>    http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/SS-Women.jpg
>    
>    SS woman Juana Bormann:
>    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Juana_Bormann.jpg
> 
>    Commandant Kramer:
>    http://www.scrapbookpages.com/BergenBelsen/OldPhotos/Kramer.jpg
> 
>    SS man Peter Weingartner:
>    http://tajchert.w.interia.pl/fotografie/personel%20obozu%20B-B/peter%20weingartner.jpg
> 
> 
> RJ.
> 

Staff Sergeant sprays a liberated prisoner with DDT in an effort to 
prevent the spread of Typhus
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=18

Women collect their rations of bread from one of the cookhouses.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=58

Hungarian troops distribute food outside one of the huts.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=65

Survivors being evacuated to Bergen-Belsen Barracks (now Bergen-Hohne).
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=71

http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=76
A woman, wrapped in a blanket since they were not permitted to take 
their clothing out of the camp, is carried out of one of the huts during 
the evacuation

Picture shows well, typhus victim skinny body and healthy survivors!
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=99


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:23 EDT 2007
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 17, 6:34 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On Jul 16, 8:49 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>>>> Michael wrote:
>>>>> On Jul 16, 6:00 am, "Binyamin Cramer" 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> "Protagonist"  wrote in message
>>>>>> news:rYidnYnn-4NJvAbbnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>> Michaelwrote:
>>>>>>>> On Jul 15, 9:36 am, J0N  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Einstein was more than a genius; he was a
>>>>>>>>> leader.http://togoni.blogspot.com/2007/07/leadership-quote-from-einstein.html
>>>>>>>>> Jonhttp://togoni.blogspot.comhttp://www.knowledgemanagementgateway.com
>>>>>>>> He was a leader but he turned down an offer to become Israel's Prime
>>>>>>>> Minister. He declined I think
>>>>>>>> because he would be no good at it.
>>>>>>>> MichaelRagland
>>>>>>> He was no good in other things either.
>>>>>>> His science was a fraud, he was plagiarist.
>>>>>>> http://home.comcast.net/~xtxinc/MainPage.htm
>>>>>> He most certainly was.
>>>>>> Italian Published E=mc2 Two
>>>>>> Years Before Einstein
>>>>>> By Rory Carroll in Rome
>>>>>> The Guardian - London
>>>>>> 2-5-2
>>>>>> The mathematical equation that ushered in the atomic age was discovered by
>>>>>> an unknown Italian dilettante two years before Albert Einstein used it in
>>>>>> developing the theory of relativity, it was claimed yesterday.
>>>>>> Olinto De Pretto, an industrialist from Vicenza, published the equation
>>>>>> E=mc2 in a scientific magazine, Atte, in 1903, said Umberto Bartocci, a
>>>>>> mathematical historian.
>>>>>> Einstein allegedly used De Pretto's insight in a major paper published in
>>>>>> 1905, but De Pretto was never acclaimed, said Professor Bartocci of the
>>>>>> University of Perugia.
>>>>>> De Pretto had stumbled on the equation, but not the theory of relativity,
>>>>>> while speculating about ether in the life of the universe, said Prof
>>>>>> Bartocci. It was republished in 1904 by Veneto's Royal Science Institute,
>>>>>> but the equation's significance was not understood.
>>>>>> A Swiss Italian named Michele Besso alerted Einstein to the research and in
>>>>>> 1905 Einstein published his own work, said Prof Bartocci. It took years for
>>>>>> his breakthrough to be grasped. When the penny finally dropped, De Pretto's
>>>>>> contribution was overlooked while Einstein went on to become the century's
>>>>>> most famous scientist. De Pretto died in 1921.
>>>>>> "De Pretto did not discover relativity but there is no doubt that he was the
>>>>>> first to use the equation. That is hugely significant. I also believe,
>>>>>> though it's impossible to prove, that Einstein used De Pretto's research,"
>>>>>> said Prof Bartocci, who has written a book on the subject.
>>>>>> Einstein's theory held that time and motion are relative to the observer if
>>>>>> the speed of light is constant and if all natural laws are the same. A
>>>>>> footnote established the equivalence of mass and energy, according to which
>>>>>> the energy (E) of a quantity of matter (m) is equal to the product of the
>>>>>> mass and the square of the velocity of light (c). Now known as: E=mc2 .
>>>>>> The influence of work by other physicists on Einstein's theory is also
>>>>>> controversial. A German, David Hilbert, is thought by some to have been
>>>>>> decisive.
>>>>>> Edmund Robertson, professor of mathematics at St Andrew's University, said:
>>>>>> "An awful lot of mathematics was done by people who have never been
>>>>>> credited - Arabs in the middle ages, for example. Einstein may have got the
>>>>>> idea from someone else, but ideas come from all sorts of places.
>>>>>> "De Pretto deserves credit if his contribution can be proven. Even so, it
>>>>>> should not detract from Einstein."
>>>>>> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2001 Originally Published
>>>>>> 11-11-99
>>>>>>> He had an interesting wife, Mileva!
>>>>>>> http://www.pbs.org/opb/einsteinswife/
>>>>>>> ..and her grave!
>>>>>>> http://www.teslasociety.com/mappeal.htm
>>>>>>> Scroll down!
>>>>>>> JS- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> You could make the same argument about Charles Darwin; Alfred Wallace
>>>>> had come up with the theory of natural selection before Darwin but he
>>>>> hadn't traveled extensively to collect specimens and run tests. You
>>>>> could make the same argument about Crick and Watson; they took
>>>>> important data from Rosalind Franklin. It doesn't mean Darwin and
>>>>> Crick and Watson were plagiarists. According to theoretical physicist
>>>>> Stephen Hawking Einstein was the most important physicist in the 20th
>>>>> century and probably in all of history. Einstein's discoveries,
>>>>> including how to make a fissionable atomic bomb as well as innumerable
>>>>> other things show he wasn't a fake. Of course, Jew haters will always
>>>>> hate him and misrepresent him because he was a Jew.
>>>>> Michael Ragland
>>>> Hmm! Like if Hawking were all ways right!http://www.meta-religion.com/Astronomy/Black_Holes/hawking_admits.htm
>>>> JS
>>>> - Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Nobody is right about everything all the time and that includes the
>>> Holocaust. I made a mistake recently. I went by
>>> the old figure of 4 million gassed to death at Auschwitz. I learned by
>>> a Holocaust denier those numbers had been
>>> revised and only about a million died.
>>> Michael Ragland
>> Not even a million, they still inflating. That number is based on
>> transportation figures, no proof for the exact numbers for the death.
>> Germans kept precise records of every death, Soviet archive only shows
>> 93,000, not complete though!
>> Conservative estimates are around 250,000 for Auschwitz.
>> Last few years we found out, all the records are stored in Germany, but
>> they wont release it, at least not soon.
>> 60 minutes had piece on it last winter.
>> According to the 60 minutes report, Germans even kept records of the
>> different size of lice found on inmates and all the letters went in and
>> out of the camps.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/14/60minutes/main2267927.shtml
>>
>> So just don't believe the Jewish version, they only know estimates and
>> there are no records what so ever.
>> JS- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> 
> Ragland: Of many of the posters on here you seem to want to have been
> a part
> of the Third Reich. You post pictures and messages very favorable of
> Hitler,
> Irma Grese, etc. You must be aware the Nazi culture was a death
> culture. They
> killed of so-called inferior elements of their own people as well as
> the Jews,
> Gyspsies, Roma, etc. I personally think you are fully aware the
> Holocaust
> happened but you try to sanitize and glorify it or gloss over the deep
> criminality of it.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

Holocau$t is a lie! 60 million people died in WW2 and not 6 million Jews.
But we only have to remember the Jews, because the power and influence 
they have here in the US.
JS



From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:24 EDT 2007
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 16, 8:55 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> Michael wrote:
>>> On Jul 15, 9:34 am, KeeponChoog...@webtv.net (Curly C) wrote:
>>>> http://judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm
>>> I believe in the Belsen Trial Grese admitted to the mass gassing of
>>> Jews taking place. She lied continously about her own
>>> responsibility and culpability in committing crimes.
>>> Michael Ragland
>> Of course, admit or sign any thing under torture.
>> JS
> 
> She wasn't tortured. Every time one of these Nazis stated there
> was mass gassing of Jews you run to their aid and say they
> were tortured; without EXCEPTION. That is narrow minded and
> more than highly improbable. It is impossible unless you consider
> the dissolution of their sadistic authority and crimes a form of
> torture. The last thing Grese said to the hangman was
> reportedly, "Quick, get it over with." She didn't want a botched
> hanging although that would served her better in terms of
> vengeance. Grese wasn't the only Nazi SS woman killed;
> there were at least two others. A fitting execution for
> Mengele would be an exploratory without anesthesia.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

You only showing your hatred against the Germans, twisted by Jewish 
propaganda!
Irma Grese and the others never run away from the Allies, because they 
had clear soul.
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:24 EDT 2007
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Michael wrote:
> On Jul 16, 8:52 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> Curly C wrote:
>>> http://judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm
>> How was she captured?
>> JS
> 
> 
> Riding naked electric bull ride.
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

Fuck you idiot, you are stupid as hell! She never ran away, waiting for 
the allies to come.
Jews turned the overcrowded, typhus diseased conditions at the camp into 
a propaganda, that Nazis murdered every one.
JS


Staff Sergeant sprays a liberated prisoner with DDT in an effort to 
prevent the spread of Typhus
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=18

Women collect their rations of bread from one of the cookhouses.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=58

Hungarian troops distribute food outside one of the huts.
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=65

Survivors being evacuated to Bergen-Belsen Barracks (now Bergen-Hohne).
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=71

http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=76
A woman, wrapped in a blanket since they were not permitted to take 
their clothing out of the camp, is carried out of one of the huts during 
the evacuation

Picture shows well, typhus victim skinny body and healthy survivors!
http://www.bergenbelsen.co.uk/pages/Database/SurvivorsPhotos.asp?index=99


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:25 EDT 2007
Article: 1201257 of alt.revisionism
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RJ11 wrote:
> In article ,
> Protagonist   wrote:
> 
>> RJ11 wrote:
> 
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen01.jpg
>>> http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/ftp.py?camps//bergen-belsen/images/belsen02.jpg
> 
>> Typhus victims, eh?
> 
>    "That we sentence 1.2 million Jews to die of hunger should be
> noted only marginally" -- Hans Frank,  the Governor-General of the
> "Generalgouvernement" (part of Nazi-occupied Poland),  speaking about
> the Jews under his jurisdiction,  on 24 August 1942.  Source:  "Nazi
> Conspiracy and Aggression",  Vol. IV,  page 900.
> 
>    Lt. Col. Johnston,  of the Royal Army Medical Corps,  had this to say
> after his inspection of the Belsen camp:  "There was obvious evidence of
> extreme and systematic starvation both in the living and the dead" (source:
> "The Belsen Trial",  page 46).
> 
> 
> RJ.

Don't mean any thing, they were payed to say all that!
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:25 EDT 2007
Article: 1201520 of alt.revisionism
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RJ11 wrote:
> In article ,
> Benjamin Cramer  wrote:
> 
>    (snip "Holocaust revisionism" drivel)
> 
>    http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Furnace.jpg
> 
>    These are the cremation furnaces in just one of the
> Auschwitz crematoriums.  Can you please explain why such
> a cremation capacity was required?
> 
> RJ.

Auschwitz had 150,000 inmates any time, like a small city.
High mortality due to hard work, old age and typhus, understandable to 
have that many furnaces.
JS



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Article: 1202580 of alt.revisionism
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mragland41@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Separation from the Family
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shattered Life
> by
>   Bloeme Evers-Emden, Ph.D.
> 
> Among the many terrible measures the Nazis took against the Jews, the
> worst consequence was the disintegration of the family, especially the
> separation of children from their parents.
> 
(Some of the crap snipped)
You're posting too much crap guy!
Joe Kennedy said:
"Jews brought upon them self and deserved the treatment from the Germans."

Why don't you search about the "WHY", rather than than what happened.
Any way after 60 years of WW2, every thing is blown out of proportions 
in this Jew controlled money world.
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:26 EDT 2007
Article: 1202581 of alt.revisionism
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Eisenstein is the Hamburger of science!
His first wife Mileva is pushed aside, like a nobody. all though a 
mathematician.
She was a Serb, non-Jew.
http://www.teslasociety.com/mappeal.htm
JS


Patrick Keenan wrote:
> "B'inyamin Cramer"  wrote in message 
> news:g6qdnfaeq8TmXDDbnZ2dnUVZ_tKinZ2d@giganews.com...
>> "J.H.Boersema"  wrote in message 
>> news:slrnfarg8s.4f4.joshb@localhost.localdomain...
>>> ["Followup-To:" header set to soc.culture.jewish.]
>>> On 2007-07-30, B'inyamin Cramer  wrote:
>>>> An absolute must read.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jewishracism.com/SaintEinstein.pdf
>>> What does it say ?
>> It pretty much destroys the myth of Einstein's greatness. Shows it all up 
>> as a huge marketing ploy by the yid industry. Also goes into some depth 
>> with regard his plagiarism.
> 
> The last number of times you made this claim, you ran from its 
> deconstruction.   Here it
> is again - do you think you can address it *this* time?
> 
> HTH
> -pk
> 
> Message-ID: 1158800736.723350.110350@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com
> ===========
> 
> Path:
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> From: "Andrew" 
> Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
> Subject: Re: Einstein was a fake
> Date: 20 Sep 2006 18:05:36 -0700
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> Ben C'ramer wrote:
>> "Joe Bruno"  wrote in message
>> news:1158527773.147579.266910@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> This article has references:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Mathematicians/Einstein.html
>> One of the great Jewish myths of the 20th century is
>> Albert Einstein.
>>
>> Albert Einstein is held up by the Jewish liars
> 
> Who apparently conspired with the scientific community, every physicist
> on earth, to elevate someone you claim is a dolt to near-deity level.
> 
>> as a rare genius who drastically changed the field of
>> theoretical physics. As such, he is made an idol to
>> young people and his very name has become synonymous
>> with genius.
> 
> And it doesn't take an Einstein to see why.
> 
>> The truth, however, is very different. The reality is
>> that Einstein was an inept, moronic Jew who could not
>> even tie his own shoelaces;
> 
> Jew, yes.  Inept, no; moronic, definitely not.
> 
> Admittedly, Einstein was a little odd by most people's standards: he
> had closets full of identical clothing (he said that he didn't want
> to waste any mental effort deciding what to wear), his hair always
> looked rather unkempt, but never anywhere have I heard that he
> couldn't tie his shoelaces.
> 
> As if that were a measure of intelligence.  Stephen Hawking is
> undeniably unable to tie his shoelaces, but even his harshest critics
> would not describe him as unintelligent (most agree, however, that
> he's no Einstein).
> 
>> he contributed nothing original to the field of
>> quantum mechanics or any other science, but on the
>> contrary he stole the ideas of other men and the
>> Jewish media made him a hero.
> 
> With the possible exception of Newton, Einstein did more to advance the
> science of physics than any other man or woman before or since, so it's
> not terribly surprising that the scientific community worships him.
> Strangely enough, the author of this paper, rather than celebrating
> that fact, chooses to ridicule and trivialize it.  I find it difficult
> to believe that this would have been written if Einstein weren't
> Jewish, but I'm not judging.
> 
> This sentence represents the author's thesis statement, and it will
> be shown over the following paragraphs that the author has no clue what
> he's talking about.  Well, either that or he knows exactly what
> he's talking about, but is practicing what I like to call voluntary
> ignorance.
> 
> In short, to say that Einstein contributed nothing original to the
> field of quantum mechanics or any other science is absurd, and it will
> be shown just how absurd the author's position is as this essay
> continues.
> 
>> When we actually examine the life of Albert Einstein,
> 
> We realize just how devoid of truthful statements this essay is.
> 
>> we find that his only brilliance lies in his ability
>> to plagiarize and steal other people's ideas, passing
>> them off as his own.
> 
> This is what the author will attempt to prove throughout this
> discourse, and fail miserably.
> 
>> Einstein's education, or lack thereof,
> 
> We're just over one sentence into the "meat" of this essay, and already
> the author has lied twice.
> 
> It is inaccurate (to say the least) to say that Einstein lacked an
> education.  In fact, Einstein would receive a PhD in Physics for his
> work on Brownian Motion.  Before that, he graduated from ETH, quite
> possibly one of the top engineering schools in Europe.
> 
> The author, of course, never actually mentions this, choosing instead
> to attempt to lead the reader to believe that Einstein just barely
> scraped through high school and stopped there.
> 
>> is an important part of this story.
> 
> Not to mention, the part of the story you conveniently forget many
> pertinent details of, such as the fact that Einstein had a PhD,
> therefore, an education.
> 
>> The Encyclopedia Britannica says of Einstein's early
>> education that he "showed little scholastic ability."
>> It also says that at the age of 15, "with poor grades
>> in history, geography, and languages, he left school
>> with no diploma."
> 
> Technically true, but not in the way you're trying to imply.  Einstein
> left High School because his family moved out of Munich.  He would
> later enter another High School in Arau and graduate in 1896.
> 
> History was really not Einstein's strong suit, nor was geography or
> languages.  When he applied to ETH, mentioned below, he would fail the
> section of the exam in French.
> 
> It's worth mentioning that his teacher in High school commented that
> his mathematical abilities were well above his age group.
> 
> Furthermore, I daresay that if we were all judged by our performance in
> high school, I strongly doubt many of us would have made it far.
> 
>> Einstein himself wrote in a school paper of his "lack
>> of imagination and practical ability."
> 
> I should mention at this point that the author made a tactical error in
> quoting one of Einstein's most famous statements incompletely in the
> hopes that the naive reader would take it out of context.  The full
> statement reads thus:
> 
> "I imagine myself becoming a teacher in those branches of the natural
> sciences, choosing the theoretical part of them. Here are the reasons
> which lead me to this plan. Above all, it is my disposition for
> abstract and mathematical thought, and my lack of imagination and
> practical ability."
> 
> Basically, he doesn't think he'll make a very good engineer or an
> artist, but considers math and science to be his future.  We all have
> our aptitudes.  I'm a lousy painter, and I can't dance to save my
> life.  Neither makes me a bad physicist.
> 
> It's also noted that the complete quote shows that Einstein is far
> away from suggesting that he is mathematically or scientifically inept
> as you imply here.
> 
>> In 1895, Einstein failed a simple entrance exam to an
>> engineering school in Zurich.
> 
> The internationally-recognized ETH.  And it wasn't a "simple" entrance
> exam.  The majority of those who took the exam failed it.
> 
>> This exam consisted mainly of mathematical problems,
> 
> Nope.  Einstein only failed the section in french.  Languages were
> never his strong suit.
> 
>> and Einstein showed himself to be mathematically inept
>> in this exam.
> 
> Nope.  The math and physics portions of the exam, he passed (which is
> something of an impressive feat since this exam is normally reserved
> for those who had completed secondary school; Einstein was still a year
> away from graduating).  The part of the exam he failed was in french.
> 
>> He then entered a lesser school
> 
> It's worth mentioning that he was 16 at the time.  The application to
> ETH was an attempt to skip secondary school.  The "Lesser School"
> was actually his high school in Arau.
> 
>> hoping to use it as a stepping stone to the
>> engineering school he could not get into,
> 
> Not so much a stepping stone as a fall-back position.  Einstein was
> trying to get into ETH over a year before he technically should have (a
> feat which is practically unheard of; the fact that he passed the math
> and physics portions of the exam over a year before he would graduate
> is rather amazing), so it's not terribly surprising that he didn't
> make it in.  He had to return to Arau to finish high school.
> 
>> but after graduating in 1900, he still could not get a
>> position at the engineering school!
> 
> Oh boy, this one's going to be fun to respond to...
> 
> Actually, he would graduate from his high school in Arau in 1896 (I
> point out that you "forgot" to mention that particular graduation,
> leading the reader to believe that he never graduated from high
> school), then he would apply for a position at the ETH, successfully
> this time.
> 
> His 1900 graduation was from exactly the school you claim he was unable
> to get into!
> 
>> Unable to go to the school as he had wanted,
> 
> Liar.
> 
>> he got a job (with the help of a friend)
> 
> The "Friend" was Marcel Grossman, a buddy of his from ETH, the
> internationally-recognized school you insist he wasn't able to get
> into.
> 
>> at the patent office in Bern.
> 
> After working a few months as a math teacher.  The degree for which he
> earned at ETH, the school you insist he wasn't able to get into.
> 
>> He was to be a technical expert third class, which
>> meant that he was too incompetent for a higher
>> qualified position.
> 
> No, it meant that he was a "technical ***expert***" at an
> entry-level position.
> 
> He became qualified as a "technical ***expert***" at ETH, the
> internationally-recognized school that you insist he wasn't able to
> get into.
> 
> This one sentence is one of the most delectable contradictions in this
> entire essay: you're trying to argue that the man was incompetent,
> but practically in the same proverbial breath, you're trying to claim
> that he was so smart that the first position he would hold at a patent
> office would be the top position.
> 
>> Even after publishing his so-called groundbreaking
>> papers of 1905 and after working in the patent office
>> for six years, he was only elevated to a second class
>> standing.
> 
> One has nothing to do with the other.  In fact, you're about to
> explain why he never advanced farther than 2nd class.
> 
>> Remember, the work he was doing at the patent office,
>> for which he was only rated third class, was not
>> quantum mechanics or theoretical physics,
> 
> Ah.  So his work at the patent office had absolutely nothing to do with
> his academic work...  So why do you suggest in the previous paragraph
> that there is some sort of link between his advancement in the patent
> office and his academic publications?
> 
>> but was reviewing technical documents for patents of
>> every day things;
> 
> The unfortunate truth is that graduate students don't make much money
> just being graduate students.  Most seek employment elsewhere to make
> ends meet.  The other side of the coin is that in their alternative
> employment, they have practically no chance of advancement due to the
> fact that their employer knows that they have no desire to continue in
> their employ for any longer than is necessary to complete their degree.
> 
> Given this, it's hardly surprising that Einstein didn't advance far
> as a patent clerk: he didn't need to.  His salary there was
> sufficient to finance his education.
> 
>> yet he was barely qualified.
> 
> He would go on to invent and patent the electric refrigerator with Leo
> Szilard.  You have yet to present any evidence that he was barely
> qualified for the position.
> 
>> He would work at the patent office until 1909, all the
>> while continuously trying to get a position at a
>> university, but without success.
> 
> Not entirely correct.  Or more accurately: downright wrong.  He was
> awarded a PhD in 1905 for his work in Brownian Motion.  Given that
> doctorate degrees are generally awarded by univesities, it would seem
> to contradict your claim that Einstein was "without success" in
> getting a position at one.
> 
> It's also worth mentioning that the author made a clerical error.
> Einstein left the patent office in 1908.
> 
>> All of these facts are true,
> 
> Only if you exclude the false ones.  You've also conveniently
> "forgotten" a number of facts, and blatantly lied about others.
> You've also expressed facts which are technically true in such a way
> as to give the reader the wrong impression (for example, the fact that
> he "left high school without a diploma" is technically true, but
> neglecting to mention that he later re-entered high school in Arau and
> graduated in 1896 gives this true statement a very false impression).
> It's notable that the facts you've "forgotten" to mention, in
> all cases, are the ones which directly oppose your thesis.  Not exactly
> the mark of an honest scholar, is it?
> 
>> but now begins the Jewish myth.
> 
> The implication throughout this entire essay (which is not explicitly
> spelled out for obvious reasons: if the author did spell it out
> explicitly, it would show how absurd his position was) is that "the
> Jews" were somehow able to conspire with every single physicist on
> Earth to elevate an incompetent to the level of a genius.  What they
> neglect to mention is the fact that if "the Jews" wanted to elevate
> a Jewish person to the level of genius, there are a number of
> physicists whom they could have so elevated.
> 
> For example:
> 
> Albert A. Michelson
> Max Born
> Niels Bohr
> Richard Feynman
> Wolfgang Pauli
> Steven Weinberg
> Heinrich Hertz
> Marcel Grossman
> Hans Bethe
> Tullio Levi-Civita
> Leonard Mandel
> Karl Schwartzschild
> 
> I could go on, but I'll stop there.  I could point out that a number of
> these physicists are actually applauded by the author of this essay.
> He never actually admits that they're Jewish, of course...
> 
> Even if this were a myth (which you're going to fail miserably to
> prove in the following paragraphs), it cannot, by any stretch of the
> imagination be described as a "Jewish Myth."  Einstein's exploits
> and insights are most often applauded by the scientific community
> itself, very few of whom are Jewish.
> 
> For example, a recent survey went out to 250 of the most prominent
> physicists worldwide in 1999, in which one of the questions asked was
> "Name the Five Physicists who have made the most important
> contributions to Physics."
> 
> It came as no surprise to anyone that the single most-voted physicist
> was Albert Einstein, with 119 votes (out of 130 people who actually
> replied).
> 
> If Einstein were a plagiarist and a fraud, those who would be most
> likely to know about it would be the physicists themselves, those who
> are applying Einstein's principles.  Not one Physicist, either when
> Einstein was alive, or now, has ever come forward to claim that he was
> a fraud.  Naturally, you have the odd crackpot that comes forward to
> say that Einstein was in fact an incompetent moron, but not one of them
> has yet provided any evidence supporting it.
> 
> The survey can be found here:
> http://physicsweb.org/article/world/12/12/14/1
> 
>> Supposedly, while working a full time job,
> 
> To be honest, I'm not sure what Einstein's hours at the patent
> office were, but I've never seen anybody describe them as full-time.
> 
>> without the aid of university colleagues, a staff of
>> graduate students, a laboratory, or any of the things
>> normally associated with an academic setting,
> 
> He was, at the time, working towards his PhD in physics.  In other
> words, he had access to university colleagues, a staff of graduate
> students, a laboratory (even though, as I'll point out later, it was
> completely useless for the type of work he was doing), and all the
> things normally associated with an academic setting.
> 
>> Einstein in his spare time wrote four ground-breaking
>> essays in the field of theoretical physics and quantum
>> mechanics that were published in 1905.
> 
> It wasn't "in his spare time."  Publishing papers is what PhD
> students do.  At least in Science.  Granted, very few of us manage to
> put out as many ground breaking works as he did, but we can't all be
> Einsteins.
> 
> Of course, you can't say that, because saying so would mean that you
> had to admit that Einstein was seeking a PhD in physics.
> 
> Runs kinda contrary to your assertion that Einstein was an uneducated
> moron, doesn't it?
> 
>> Many people have recognized the impossibility of such
>> a feat, including Einstein himself,
> 
> Yep.  There's a reason "Einstein" is synonymous with
> "Genius," and you've just stated it.
> 
>> and therefore Einstein has led people to believe that
>> many of these ideas came to him in his sleep, out of
>> the blue, because indeed that is the only logical
>> explanation of how an admittedly inept moron
> 
> The day that you can come up with Special Relativity is the day that
> you can call Einstein an "inept moron."  I'll wait.
> 
>> could have written such documents at the age of 26
>> without any real education.
> 
> How someone who was pursuing (and who would eventually get) a PhD can
> be described as having no "real education" is beyond me.  The
> author never explains the logic underlying this conclusion.
> 
> So, as if it wasn't bad enough that you're re-writing Einstein's
> own personal history, now you're claiming that those with PhDs are
> uneducated.
> 
>> However, a simpler explanation exists: he stole the
>> ideas and plagiarized the papers.
> 
> Your "simpler explanation" rests upon the assumption of the
> existence of an unknown, unnamed group of conspirators (for which, I
> might add, you provide absolutely no evidence) which managed to
> manipulate some of the most prominent and reputable organizations in
> the world (not to mention public opinion) into believing that an
> incompetent moron is actually a genius.
> 
> In a recent debate, David Gehrig who has far more eloquence than I do
> on the matter phrased it this way:
> 
> Message ID: 
> 
> "=2E..you seem quite willing to postulate some grand conspiracy among
> physicists to celebrate someone they would think is a dolt.  That's
> far more ridiculous a stance than that of a lone genius recasting the
> Laws of motion, which were themselves the work of a lone genius."
> 
>> Therefore, we will look at each of these ideas and
>> discover the source of each....
> 
> .=2E.And discover that it was Einstein, himself...
> 
>> It should be remembered that these ideas are presented
>> by Einstein's worshippers as totally new and
>> completely different, each of which would change the
>> landscape of science.
> 
> The fact that they are presented by Einstein's worshippers as totally
> new and completely different, each of which would change the landscape
> of science is largely related to the fact that that the ideas were
> totally new and completely different, each of which has changed the
> landscape of science.
> 
>> These four papers dealt with the following four ideas,
>> respectively:
>>
>> 1. The foundation of the photon theory of light;
>> 2. The equivalence of energy and mass;
>> 3. The explanation of Brownian motion in liquids;
>> 4. The special theory of relativity.
>>
>> Let us first look at the last of these theories, the
>> theory of relativity. This is perhaps the most famous
>> idea falsely attributed to Einstein.
> 
> Which you're going to fail miserably to show is falsely attributed to
> him.
> 
>> Specifically, this 1905 paper dealt with what Einstein
>> called the Special Theory of Relativity (the General
>> Theory would come in 1915).
> 
> Close to accurate.  He didn't actually call it the special theory of
> relativity until he started working on his general theory.
> 
>> This theory contradicted
>> the traditional Newtonian mechanics and was based upon
>> two premises:
> 
> Actually, no.  If it contradicted Newtonian mechanics, then the
> universe would be a really screwy place.  In fact, one of the
> fundamental assumptions that makes Special Relativity work is that
> Newton's laws hold true in all inertial reference frames, including
> those that travel close to the speed of light.  Einstein merely
> generalized Newtonian mechanics to all inertial reference frames.  At
> velocities v< mechanics, which it does.
> 
> Do your homework a little better next time.
> 
>> 1) in the absence of acceleration, the laws of nature
>> are the same for all observers;
> 
> Including Newton's Laws, which you just said were contradicted by
> relativity.
> 
> Do your homework a little better next time.
> 
>> and 2) since the speed of light is independent of the
>> motion of its source, then the time interval between
>> two events is longer for an observer in whose frame of
>> reference the events occur at different places than
>> for an observer in whose frame of reference the events
>> occur in the same place. This is basically the idea
>> that time passes more slowly as one's velocity
>> approaches the speed of light, relative to slower
>> velocities where time would pass faster.
> 
> It's out of sheer mercy that I'm not going to tear this paragraph into
> tiny little pieces.  It's close enough to truthful that I'll just let
> it pass.  Suffice it to say, the author has omitted a number of details
> here, but nothing remotely on the scale of "forgetting" that Einstein
> had a PhD.
> 
>> This theory has been validated by modern experiments
>> and is the basis for modern physics. But these two
>> premises are far from being originally Einstein's.
>> First of all, the idea that the speed of light was a
>> constant and was independent of the motion of its
>> source was not Einstein's at all, but was proposed by
>> the Scottish scientist James Maxwell. Maxwell studied
>> the phenomenon of light extensively and first proposed
>> that it was electromagnetic in nature. He wrote an
>> article to this effect for the 1878 edition of the
>> Encyclopedia Britannica.
> 
> Here, we come to the author's second tactical error, and this is a
> biggie.  First he claims that Einstein's work is plagiarized, the
> goes on to attribute the originals to some of the most famous
> physicists ever to grace the pages of textbooks worldwide.  If (s)he
> were intent on making this crap work any longer than it takes for the
> reader to dust off their old high school physics text, (s)he should
> have chosen papers that were so obscure nobody would ever be able to
> find them. Instead, it took me less than 20 minutes to find to just
> what level the author is full of it.
> 
> We'll see in the upcoming passages that the author of this paper will
> not only claim Einstein was somehow able to steal the ideas of some of
> the most prominent pre-Einstein physicists without anybody noticing
> (which brings up the question of how they got to be the most prominent
> pre-Einstein physicists in the first place if it was such a trivial
> matter to steal their works), but he's going to do it over, and over,
> and over again.  That Einstein was capable of so pulling the wool over
> the eyes of some very intelligent men is one of the fundamental
> (although unspoken) assumptions of this essay.  The implication (which
> is not explicitly spelled out, for spelling it out would reveal how
> ridiculous the author's stance is) is that the scientific community
> (which includes the authors that Einstein was supposedly plagiarizing)
> is so dumb that they are incapable of recognizing some of the defining
> works of modern physics, and the authors thereof.
> 
> The extent to which the author is full of crap is nicely summarized by
> looking at one of the opening sentences of this paragraph: "First of
> all, the idea that the speed of light was a constant and was
> independent of the motion of its source was not Einstein's at all,
> but was proposed by the Scottish scientist James Maxwell."
> 
> Now, ignoring the fact that Maxwell went by the name James Clerk
> Maxwell rather than James Maxwell, this one sentence is the combination
> of a truth and a lie.  Yes, Maxwell suggested that the speed of light
> was a constant, but no, he did not suggest that it was independent of
> the motion of its source.
> 
> In fact, the motion of the source is given no consideration whatsoever
> in Maxwell's work.  By contrast, relativity is specifically a study
> of how the motion of the source affects an observation.
> 
> In other words, Maxwell's equations embody a completely different
> physical principle from relativity.  Ergo, no plagiarism.
> 
> At this point, I feel it necessary to point out that all of Maxwell's
> equations; the entire basis for electrodynamics, and the equations
> which allowed him to draw the conclusion that the speed of light is a
> constant already existed in the form of Gauss' law, Ampere's law,
> Faraday's law, and an unnamed equation.  Maxwell's actual
> contribution to what we call "Maxwell's Equations" is a single
> mathematical expression at the end of Ampere's law.  So if we follow
> through with the author's logic, we are left with the inevitable
> conclusion that Maxwell as guilty as (and very possibly more guilty
> than) Einstein of Plagiarism.
> 
> Yet, the author of this piece applauds Maxwell as a genius, but
> condemns Einstein as a plagiarist.
> 
> I bring this up primarily to point out the blatant double-standard the
> author demonstrates throughout this essay.  This double standard will
> become the norm rather than the exception as this essay progresses.
> 
>> His ideas prompted much debate, and by 1887, as a
>> result of his work and the ensuing debate, the
>> scientific community, particularly Lorentz, Michelson,
>> and Morley reached the conclusion that the velocity of
>> light was independent of the velocity of the observer.
>> Thus, this piece of the Special Theory of Relativity
>> was known 27 years before Einstein wrote his paper.
> 
> Which was really why Einstein wrote it in the first place.  What the
> author completely ignores is what science is.  Scientific research, by
> its very definition, is a journey.  Your measure as a scientist lies in
> how far you carry that journey.  If every scientist had started from
> scratch, scientific thought would go nowhere.  Every scientific
> discovery or conclusion (not just Einstein's) is built upon the work
> of others.  That's the whole reason for having a reference section in
> a scientific publication.
> 
> The challenge, of course, is to carry that journey as far as possible
> without having to throw out the work that others did.
> 
>> This debate over the nature of light also led
>> Michelson and Morley to conduct an important
>> experiment, the results of which could not be
>> explained by Newtonian mechanics. They observed a
>> phenomenon caused by relativity
> 
> Um, no.  They observed a consequence of the absence of a medium through
> which light traveled.  Nowhere in their publications do Michelson &
> Morley ever discuss inertial reference frames, relative motion, time
> dilation, length contraction, or any of the other benchmarks of Special
> Relativity.
> 
> Where's the plagiarism?
> 
> Incidentally, to believe that the only reason for Einstein's fame was
> because he was Jewish, one would have to wonder why Michelson isn't
> equally famous.  He, too, was Jewish.
> 
>> but they did not understand relativity.
> 
> Which they can hardly be blamed for, since Einstein hadn't published
> it yet.
> 
>> They had attempted to detect the motion of the earth
>> through ether, which was a medium thought to be
>> necessary for the propagation of light.
> 
> The experiment employed a Michelson Interferometer in the hopes of
> studying velocity of the Ether Wind relative to that of the earth.
> They came up with a rather shocking conclusion: there is no ether.
> 
> This, while fascinating, has absolutely nothing to do with Einstein.
> In fact, the Ether (whose velocity Michelson and Morley were attempting
> to measure) is only mentioned very superficially by Einstein in his
> "Electrodynamics of Moving bodies," when he says that:
> 
> "The introduction of a 'luminiferous ether' will prove to be
> superfluous inasmuch as the view here to be developed will not require
> an 'absolutely stationary space' provided with special properties,
> nor assign a velocity-vector to a point of the empty space in which
> electromagnetic processes take place."
> 
> This is the only time at which the "luminiferous ether" Maxwell
> proposed, and Michelson and Morley attempted to measure is ever
> mentioned in Einstein's work.  Note that he specifically debunks the
> very concept you claim he was copying from Michelson and Morley's
> experiment.
> 
> In other words, Einstein's work embodies a completely different
> concept from Michelson and Morley's.
> 
> I should also mention, for completeness' sake, that it has been
> extensively argued whether Einstein would have published "The
> Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" (More commonly known as Special
> Relativity) had the Michelson-Morley experiment not occurred.  Most
> agree that he would have gone ahead and done it anyway... Special
> Relativity stands nicely on its own feet, without the assistance of the
> M-M experiment.  If the M-M experiment had measured something other
> than a null result, we might think differently, but it didn't.
> 
>> In response to this problem, in 1889, the Irish
>> physicist George FitzGerald, who had also first
>> proposed a mechanism for producing radio waves, wrote
>> a paper which stated that the results of the
>> Michelson-Morley experiment could be explained if,
>> "... the length of material bodies changes, according
>> as they are moving through the ether or across it, by
>> an amount depending on the square of the ratio of
>> their velocities to that of light."
>>
>> This is the theory of relativity, 13 years before
>> Einstein's paper!
> 
> The minor flaw in this argument being that this is *not* the theory of
> relativity.  Even if Lorentz and Fitzgerald had known anything about
> Relativity (which they didn't, and I'll explain why in a moment), this
> is not the theory of relativity.  This is one of the *consequences* of
> relativity.  There's a difference.
> 
> Like the M-M experiment, Fitzgerald and Lorentz had absolutely no idea
> that they'd stumbled upon a relativistic phenomenon.  This equation
> was an attempt by the two scientists to keep the Ether alive, and
> explain the completely unexpected result from the M-M experiment.
> Basically, the mathematical equivalent of a band-aid.  Einstein, on the
> other hand, started from the governing principles, and derived his way
> all the way to the same result Lorentz and Fitzgerald got to.  Lorentz
> and Fitzgerald didn't do that, ergo, no plagiarism.  It's also worth
> mentioning that most people agree that Einstein was likely unaware of
> Lorentz' and Fitzgerald's work (not surprising, considering that it
> wasn't really taken seriously until Einstein managed to derive it from
> first principles), since he could have referred to it as evidence that
> his special theory of relativity was correct.  That, by the way, would
> not be plagiarism either.
> 
> It is important to note here (and observant readers will find that this
> is a rather constant theme in this pseudo-intellectual exercise) that
> the author seems convinced that the fact that two works finished at the
> same end result is enough to conclude plagiarism.  This is, of course,
> bullshit.  If this were true, Newton (who, next to Einstein is probably
> the most prominent physicist in history) plagiarized Kepler.  Kepler
> knew the equations of planetary motion many years before Newton figured
> out what made them work.  Snell plagiarized whoever looked up and first
> saw a rainbow.
> 
> But it is the governing principles that we give Newton and Snell credit
> for, in the same way that we give Einstein credit for the governing
> principles behind relativity.
> 
>> Furthermore, in 1892, Hendrik Lorentz, from The
>> Netherlands, proposed the same solution and began to
>> greatly expand the idea.
> 
> NOTE: The author has just labeled Lorentz as a plagiarist, if we apply
> the same standard to Lorentz as (s)he has applied to Einstein.
> 
>> All throughout the 1890's, both Lorentz and FitzGerald
>> worked on these ideas and wrote articles strangely
>> similar to Einstein's Special Theory detailing what is
>> now known as the Lorentz-FitzGerald Contraction.
> 
> Also known as the Lorentz transformations.  They were still dealing
> with the propagation of electromagnetic waves through the Ether.  It
> was Einstein who realized that when their transformations were applied
> to his special relativity, the ether became superfluous.
> 
> In other words, they weren't "strangely similar to Einstein's
> Special Theory" because they dealt with the end result of the special
> theory, whereas Einstein dealt with the root cause thereof.
> 
>> In 1898, the Irishman Joseph Larmor wrote down
>> equations explaining the Lorentz-FitzGerald
>> contraction and its relativistic consequences, 7 years
>> before Einstein's paper. By 1904, Lorentz
>> transformations, the series of equations explaining
>> relativity, were published by Lorentz. They describe
>> the increase of mass, the shortening of length, and
>> the time dilation of a body moving at speeds close to
>> the velocity of light. In short, by 1904, everything
>> in Einstein's paper regarding the Special Theory of
>> Relativity had already been published.
> 
> Except for the theory itself.
> 
> Again, Lorentz-Fitzgerald transformations are not the special theory of
> relativity.  They are just the consequences of it.  And they were
> working from a flawed assumption: that the Ether exists.  Einstein
> showed a) that the ether is superfluous, and b) derived all of the
> transformations from first principles, and developed the physics on
> which relativity is based.  Lorentz and Fitzgerald didn't do either
> of these.
> 
> Where's the plagiarism?
> 
> It's also worth mentioning that any physics textbook refers to
> Einstein's application of Lorentz transformations as just that:
> Lorentz transformations.  It's not like it's some kind of dirty
> secret that someone's been trying to hush up.  It's also generally
> agreed that Einstein was unaware of Lorentz' work.  Not terribly
> surprising when it is considered that nobody really gave much thought
> to Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction *until* Einstein proposed a mechanism
> by which it could occur.
> 
> However, after Special Relativity was published, Einstein became very
> vocal in his praise of Lorentz when he realized that the two had
> stumbled on the same results from different angles.
> 
> He also refers to Maxwell's equations as "Maxwell's Equations."
>  If you're plagiarizing, it makes very little sense to identify the
> people you're supposedly plagiarizing by name.
> 
> So, not only are you claiming that the scientists themselves were so
> dumb that they didn't realize that their own works were being
> plagiarized, but that the scientific community was so dumb that they
> didn't realize that Einstein was plagiarizing when he identified the
> authors you claim that he was copying by name.
> 
>> The Frenchman Poincar=E9 had, in 1898, written a paper
>> unifying many of these ideas. He stated seven years
>> before Einstein's paper that,
>>
>> "... we have no direct intuition about the equality of
>> two time intervals. The simultaneity of two events or
>> the order of their succession, as well as the equality
>> of two time intervals, must be defined in such a way
>> that the statements of the natural laws be as simple
>> as possible."
> 
> Which is merely another piece of the puzzle.  The author has a nasty
> habit of mistaking the parts for the whole.  Anybody else notice that?
> 
> It should also be mentioned, for completeness sake, that while
> Poincar=E9 may have had the insight to see the trailhead, what he did
> not do was follow the path where it led.  Poincar=E9 never formulated
> relativity.
> 
> What Einstein managed to do was quite beautifully tie together what
> appeared to be conflicting (or more accurately, crackpot) theories
> about the nature of the universe, and show that they weren't
> conflicting (or crack-pottish) after all.
> 
> That's what he gets, and deserves, the credit for.
> 
>> Anyone who has read Einstein's 1905 paper
> 
> Ah, yes, the "everybody knows I'm right" line of evidence.  With
> the minor flaw that not everybody knows that you're right.
> 
>> will immediately recognize the similarity and the lack
>> of originality on the part of Einstein.
> 
> Um, no.  Anybody who actually takes the time to Read "The
> Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" and compare it to Maxwell's,
> Fitzgerald's, Lorentz and Michelson & Morley's work, will in fact
> realize that Einstein was the first to draw together all the pieces
> that formed relativity.  Many scientists may have seen the proverbial
> tip of the iceberg, but Einstein was indisputably the first to dive
> below the surface and see its entire expanse.
> 
>> Thus we see that the only thing original about the
>> paper was the term "Special Theory of Relativity."
> 
> That's a rather impressive conclusion, since "On the
> Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" (the paper which later became known
> as "Special Relativity") doesn't actually have the term
> "Special Theory of Relativity," or "Special Relativity," or for
> that matter, any term with both of the words "Special" and
> "Relativity" in it.
> 
> In fact, the word "special" only actually appears once in the whole
> paper, and is not in any way associated with the word "relativity."
> 
> In fact, it wasn't until Einstein started work on his General
> Relativity that he started using the term "Special Theory of
> Relativity."
> 
> For someone who spouts this bullshit claiming to have "examine[d] the
> life of Albert Einstein," you seem remarkably ignorant of the content
> of his works.
> 
>> Everything else was plagiarized.
> 
> Well, at least you were consistent in your utter failure to prove it.
> 
>> Over the next few years, Poincar=E9 became one of the
>> most important lecturers and writers regarding
>> relativity, but he never, in any of his papers or
>> speeches, mentioned Albert Einstein.
> 
> The reasons behind this have always been something of a mystery, and
> nobody seems to have an answer.  And nobody denies that he came awfully
> close to having formulated Relativity in his paper "Sur le Dynamique de
> L'=E9lectron."  Likewise, nobody denies that Einstein truly deserves the
> credit for Relativity.
> 
> However, it's important to ask here, regardless of Poincar=E9's reasons
> for remaining silent with respect to Einstein, does it make any sense
> at all for him to have remained silent if he felt that Einstein was
> fraudulently using his work?
> 
>> Thus, while Poincar=E9 was busy bringing the rest of the
>> academic world up to speed regarding relativity,
>> Einstein was still working in the patent office in
>> Bern
> 
> And, don't forget, he was also completing a PhD in physics.
> 
>> and no one in the academic community thought it
>> necessary to give much credence or mention to
>> Einstein's work. Most of these early physicists knew
>> that he was a fraud.
> 
> Okay.  Please produce, say, one example of a physicist stating or even
> implying that Einstein was a fraud, and produce supporting evidence
> that they in fact said so.
> 
> Here you have claimed that Einstein pilfered the works of some of the
> greatest physicists who have ever lived.   Strangely enough, you make
> no mention of the fact that no physicist ever came forward to claim
> that Einstein stole their results (all of the ones you've named
> except for Maxwell and Fitzgerald were alive and kicking when Special
> Relativity came out). Lorentz never came forward to say that he
> deserved all the credit for Special Relativity.  Larmor never said:
> "Hey, Al, that's my work you're profiting off of."  Poincar=E9
> never announced to the world that Einstein had pilfered his ideas.
> This would be the equivalent of my publishing Hawking's work on
> radiating black holes as my own, and nobody noticing.  Even if the
> scientific community never caught on to it, you can be damn sure
> Hawking would, and I guarantee he would raise holy hell for it.
> 
> So, please provide the name of the physicist who took all these
> conflicting theories, and tied them together with a beautiful, elegant
> theory.
> 
> I'll give you a hint: his last name is "Einstein."
> 
> Of course, pieces that ultimately led Einstein to formulate Relativity
> existed already.  Why else would he have formulated it?  If no
> unexpected observation has been made, there's really no point in
> attempting to formulate a theory which explains it, is there?  As
> I've mentioned before, this is the way that science works.  An
> observation is made, and a theory is modified to explain that
> observation.
> 
>> This brings us to the explanation of Brownian motion,
>> the subject of another of Einstein's 1905 papers.
>> Brownian motion describes the irregular motion of a
>> body arising from the thermal energy of the molecules
>> of the material in which the body is immersed. The
>> movement had first been observed by the Scottish
>> botanist Robert Brown in 1827.
> 
> Hence the name "Brownian Motion."
> 
> The title of Einstein's work is "Investigations on the Theory of
> Brownian Movement."
> 
> So you would have us believe that Einstein would plagiarize someone,
> then identify the person he plagiarized by name *in the title of his
> thesis*?
> 
> Not only that, but you would have us believe that his PhD committee
> (which you fail to mention, because doing so would require you to
> mention that Einstein got a PhD for this work) was too stupid to
> realize that he was plagiarizing his work on Brownian motion in spite
> of the fact that he identified the people you claim he was plagiarizing
> by name.
> 
>> The explanation of this phenomenon has to do with the
>> Kinetic Theory of Matter, and it was the American
>> Josiah Gibbs and the Austrian Ludwig Boltzmann who
>> first explained this occurrence, not Albert Einstein.
> 
> Gibbs and Boltzmann are credited with creating what would become
> Statistical Thermal Physics.  Namely, using statistical methods to
> bridge the microscopic world with the macroscopic.
> 
> Why does this make Einstein a plagiarist?  If I use Newton's
> equations of motion to calculate the trajectory of a satellite, am I
> plagiarizing Newton?  Of course not.
> 
> And again, you would have us believe that his PhD committee would be so
> dumb as to not notice that he was plagiarizing what are still today
> considered the definitive works in Statistical Thermal Physics.
> 
>> In fact, the mathematical equation describing the
>> motion contains the famous Boltzmann constant, k.
> 
> Not only does it have the Boltzmann constant, it has the whole
> Boltzmann equation in it.
> 
> And not only that, but Einstein refers to it as the Boltzmann equation!
> 
> So, are you really suggesting that the Boltzmann equation, one of the
> most fundamental equations in statistical physics, was unrecognizable
> by Einstein's PhD committee, even when he identifies it by name!?
> 
>> Between these two men, they had explained by the 1890s
>> everything in Einstein's 1905 paper regarding Brownian
>> motion.
> 
> Except the experiment Einstein did, which was to statistically analyze
> the momenta of gas molecules based upon the movement of soot.
> 
> What made this paper ground-breaking (and a fact you omit) is that this
> was the first experimental evidence of the existence of molecules, as
> well as data on their size.
> 
> Again, you're suspiciously tight-lipped about the fact that this
> paper earned Einstein a PhD.
> 
> And again, you claim that Einstein stole the results of two of the
> leading scientists of the pre-Einstein age without anybody so much as
> batting an eyelash.
> 
> It is worth noting that after bullshitting your way, at length, through
> Special Relativity, Einstein's work on Brownian Motion barely gets a
> token few paragraphs in your pile of cra-, I mean, essay.
> 
> This may well be related to the fact that if you spoke much longer
> about it, you would have to admit that Einstein had a PhD in Physics
> from the University of Zurich for this work.  Somewhat contrary to your
> insistence that Einstein was an uneducated moron, isn't it?
> 
> And you would have had to explain why Einstein's PhD committee
> didn't realize that he was plagiarizing some of the most prominent
> physicists of the pre-Einstein era.
> 
>> The subject of the equivalence of mass and energy was
>> contained in a third paper published by Einstein in
>> 1905.  This concept is expressed by the famous
>> equation E=3Dmc2. Einstein's biographers categorize this
>> as "his most famous and most spectacular conclusion."
>> Even though this idea is an obvious conclusion of
>> Einstein's earlier relativity paper,
> 
> This "obvious conclusion" takes up the better part of four pages in
> "Modern Physics" by Serway, Moses and Moyer, 2nd edition (and
> that's when they skip a lot of the technical details).  And given
> that he was able to go from electrodynamics to the conclusion that
> matter and energy are interchangeable quantities, I'd say that this
> is a pretty spectacular conclusion, especially considering that it
> holds together under scrutiny.
> 
> This principle is also the basis for nuclear power; which, while we can
> argue until we're blue in the face as to whether it's something we
> should be using, is still a pretty incredible discovery from a physical
> perspective.
> 
>> it was not included in that paper but was published as
>> an afterthought later in the year. Still, the idea of
>> energy-mass equivalence was not original with
>> Einstein.
> 
> Yes, it was.  You're about to (again) fail miserably to show that it
> was not.
> 
>> That there was an equivalence between mass and energy
>> had been shown in the laboratory in the 1890s by both
>> J.J. Thomson
> 
> This is gonna be another of my favorite responses.
> 
> The experiment the author refers to above is the infamous "Thomson
> Experiment," performed in 1897.
> 
> However, the value Thomson (whose major claim to fame is the discovery
> of the electron) measured represented nothing close to mass-energy
> equivalence...
> 
> Thomson forced a beam of electrons through opposing electrical and
> magnetic fields and measured the ratio of the electron's charge (not
> its rest energy) to its mass.
> 
> In fact, the only similarity between Einstein's work and Thomson's
> is that the end results both have the letters "e" and "m" in
> them.  Unfortunately (for you) Thomson's "e" represents charge
> (and not just any old charge either, specifically the charge of an
> electron), whereas Einstein's "E" represents rest energy (for any
> matter).  Likewise Thomson's "m" represents mass (and not just
> any old mass either, specifically the mass of an electron), and
> Einstein's "m" represents mass (for any matter).
> 
> Didn't think anybody would catch on to that, didja?
> 
> Now, in fairness, Thomson did suggest once that matter arose from an
> energy field, but he never was able to provide any supporting evidence
> thereof; either theoretical or experimental.  What you, sir, need to
> recognize is that saying: "maybe this is happening" is very
> different from saying "here's my evidence that this is
> happening."  The former is what Thomson did, the latter was
> Einstein's work.
> 
>> of Cambridge and by W. Kaufmann in G=F6ttingen.
> 
> If you're trying to establish plagiarism here, Kaufmann really should
> be mentioned in the section on Special Relativity.  Kaufmann, in an
> experiment similar to Thomson's (which, by your logic, also makes
> Kaufmann a plagiarist), stumbled on the fact that the inertial mass of
> an electron increases with its velocity in 1901.
> 
> He succeeded in neither formulating, nor explaining the phenomenon, and
> to the best of anybody's knowledge, Einstein was unaware of his work.
>  If he were, he would have referred to his work as evidence that his
> Special Theory of Relativity was correct (which, by the way, isn't
> plagiarism either).
> 
> It is also important to note that this has absolutely nothing to do
> with mass-energy equivalence, since the E=3Dmc^2 refers to the object's
> rest mass, not its inertial mass.
> 
>> In 1900, Poincar=E9 had shown that there was a mass
>> relationship for all forms of energy, not just
>> electromagnetic energy.
> 
> Which means nothing.  Einstein actually determined what that
> relationship is.  Saying that a relationship exists, and actually
> determining what that relationship is are two different things.
> 
> Furthermore, what Einstein is given credit for is the fact that he was
> able to bind this conclusion to his special relativity, which in turn,
> he was able to bind to electrodynamics.
> 
> In other words, he created a chain of knowledge from Maxwell's
> Equations to Special Relativity to Mass-energy equivalence.
> 
> Poincar=E9 didn't do that.  Thomson and Kaufmann, I've already
> established, had absolutely nothing to do with mass-energy equivalence.
> 
> Where's the plagiarism?
> 
>> Yet, the most probable source of Einstein's plagiarism
>> was Friedrich Hasen=F6hrl, one of the most brilliant,
>> yet unappreciated physicists of the era. Hasen=F6hrl was
>> the teacher of many of the German scientists who would
>> later become famous for a variety of topics.
> 
> Indeed.  One of his major claims to fame is that he had Schr=F6dinger as
> a pupil.
> 
>> He had worked on the idea of the equivalence of mass
>> and energy for many years and had published a paper on
>> the topic in 1904 in the very same journal which
>> Einstein would publish his plagiarized version in
>> 1905.
> 
> And somehow the Journal reviewers managed to miss the fact that it was
> plagiarized, in spite of the fact that the article he was supposedly
> plagiarizing had been published less than a year before in the exact
> same journal.
> 
> You are aware that there's a process called "peer review" when a paper
> is submitted, right?
> 
>> For his brilliant work in this area, Hasen=F6rhl had
>> received in 1904 a prize from the prestigious Vienna
>> Academy of Sciences.
> 
> Actually, the first attempt to replace Einstein's name with
> Hasen=F6hrl was by Lenard in 1930.  Lenard had had his nose bloodied by
> the fact that Einstein had beaten him to Photoelectricity.  Lenard was
> an open and unabashed antisemite and an avid supporter of the Nazi
> party.  This does not, in and of itself dismiss his allegations, but I
> point it out merely to demonstrate that Lenard's opinions on Einstein
> may have been somewhat, shall we say, colored.  Lenard was not only
> openly opposed to all things Jewish (he was one of the physicists who
> openly condemned "Jewish Physics" in Nazi Germany), but anything
> that wasn't German.  For example, he insisted that all instruments
> which measured current in Amperes (named for a Frenchman) changed to
> measure current in Webers (Named for German Wilhelm Weber).
> 
> Lenard spent several years trying to either find logical contradictions
> in Einstein's work, or to experimentally disprove them.  He failed,
> so he started a smear campaign against Einstein, in an attempt to
> rewrite history, giving Hasen=F6hrl credit for mass-energy equivalence
> 
> Hasen=F6hrl observed an increase in mass which was associated with a
> cavity flooded with energy radiation.  First, it is important to note
> that his formulation was in error, and was later corrected by
> Hasen=F6hrl (after Einstein published his works).  Second, it is very
> important to note that Hasen=F6hrl himself never contested Einstein's
> claims.  He was certainly aware of Einstein's work.  In fact, he was
> a great admirer of it (which, ultimately, is why Lenard's smear
> campaign failed: Hasen=F6hrl objected to being used in such a way).  But
> he never once stepped forward to contest it.
> 
>> Furthermore, the mathematical relationship of mass and
>> energy was a simple deduction from the already
>> well-known equations of Scottish physicist James
>> Maxwell.
> 
> Or even James Clerk Maxwell.
> 
> To go from Maxwell to E=3Dmc^2 took close to a chapter in Serway, Moses &
> Moyer (all three are quite admirable physicists in their own rights),
> and even they needed Einistein to see it.
> 
>> Scientists long understood that the mathematical
>> relationship expressed by the equation E=3Dmc2 was the
>> logical result of Maxwell's work, they just did not
>> believe it.
> 
> Um, no.  Actually, Einstein was the first to realize that E=3Dmc^2 was
> the logical end result of Maxwell's work.  So far, you've found a
> grand total of zero (0) people who realized it before him.
> 
>> Thus, the experiments of Thomson,
> 
> What the hell does the charge to mass ratio of an electron have to do
> with E=3Dmc^2?
> 
>> Kaufmann,
> 
> What the hell does an increase in the inertial mass of an electron have
> to do with E=3Dmc^2?
> 
>> and finally, and most importantly, Hasen=F6rhl,
> 
> Who, of these three is the only one whose work was actually in a
> similar area to Einstein's work, yet in no way resembles it.
> 
> Hasen=F6hrl himself never accused Einstein of Plagiarism.
> 
>> confirmed Maxwell's work.
> 
> With the minor problem that Maxwell's work has absolutely nothing to
> do with mass-energy equivalence.
> 
>> It is ludicrous to believe that Einstein developed
>> this postulate, particularly in light of the fact that
>> Einstein did not have the laboratory necessary to
>> conduct the appropriate experiments.
> 
> Which is what ***theoretical*** physics is.  Your laboratory is your
> brain, a pencil, and a pad of paper.  And if it's Einstein's brain
> you're working with, that's one hell of a well-equipped laboratory.
> 
> Remember, this was about 50 years pre-Sputnik.  We couldn't get an
> object moving fast enough to get it into orbit, much less travelling at
> a non-negligible fraction of the speed of light.
> 
> In fact, it took a Solar Eclipse for one of Einstein's theories to be
> experimentally verified.  Even today, we haven't managed to reproduce
> a solar eclipse in a laboratory.
> 
> Later, studies of the orbit of Mercury substantiated more of
> Einstein's claims.  Even today, we haven't managed to reproduce
> Mercury's orbit in a laboratory setting either.
> 
> On December 2nd, 1942 (over 37 years after Einstein published his work
> on mass-energy equivalence), Fermi managed to sustain a nuclear chain
> reaction (which is a direct application of mass-energy equivalence). He
> did it on a volleyball court, and a greater understanding of the
> properties of Uranium (unavailable in when Einstein published his
> papers) was necessary prior to the creation of this sustained reaction.
> 
> More recently, some of the most accurate radiotelescopes on earth were
> employed to measure the "speed of gravity," which Einstein
> predicted would be equal to c.  These radiotelescopes were not
> available to Einstein.  They hadn't been built yet.
> 
> In other words, not only did Einstein lack the laboratory to perform
> the "appropriate experiments," but he lacked the "appropriate
> experiments" themselves.  He was dealing with quantities for which it
> was (and in some cases, still is) impossible to make any experimental
> measurements.  A laboratory was not only unnecessary for the studies he
> was doing, but it would have been completely useless for them.
> 
>> In this same plagiarized article of Einstein's, he
>> suggested to the scientific community, "Perhaps it
>> will prove possible to test this theory using bodies
>> whose energy content is variable to a high degree
>> (e.g., salts of radium)." This remark demonstrates how
>> little Einstein understood about science, for this was
>> truly an outlandish remark.
> 
> No, actually this experiment is perfectly possible on paper and would,
> in principle, work.  However, equipment capable of measuring such a
> small change in mass is still unavailable.
> 
>> By saying this, Einstein showed that he really did not
>> understand basic scientific principles and that he was
>> writing about a topic that he did not understand.
> 
> No, in your own quote, Einstein is speaking theoretically.  He's
> suggesting that in the future (he doesn't specify when) that such a
> correlation may be directly observable, as indeed it would be, if we
> had equipment which could measure a change in mass that small.
> 
>> In fact, in response to this article, J. Precht
>> remarked that such an experiment "lies beyond the
>> realm of possible experience."
> 
> And it does, right now.  A hundred years down the road?  Who knows?
> The catch is that we cannot measure a change in mass that small.
> 
> Think about it, the change in mass is proportional to the energy
> emitted divided by the square of the speed of light (a value of about
> 9=2E0x10^16 m^2/s^2... That's a 9 followed by 16 zeroes).  This gives a
> tiny number, unless the amount of energy is absolutely gargantuan.  For
> a more concrete example, the amount of mass transformed into energy in
> Fat Man and Little Boy was of the order of about a gram, yet you've
> seen the devastation caused to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Try to picture
> measuring the reverse when the amount of energy released is a miniscule
> fraction of that released by those detonations.  It's entirely
> possible that equipment sensitive enough to measure such a small change
> in mass will someday become available, and if it were to become
> available, a correlation between energy release and change in mass
> would be observable (ie, measure the amount of energy thrown off, then
> correlate it with the loss of mass).  We just can't do it now.
> 
>> The last subject dealt with in Einstein's 1905 papers
>> was the foundation of the photon theory of light.
>>
>> Einstein wrote about the photoelectric effect. The
>> photoelectric effect is the release of electrons from
>> certain metals or semiconductors by the action of
>> light. This area of research is particularly important
>> to the Einstein myth because it was for this topic
>> that he unjustly received his 1922 Nobel Prize.
> 
> 1: It was 1921, unless you want to explain to Niels Bohr why you've
> just awarded his Nobel Prize to Einstein.
> 
> 2: Are you honestly attempting to argue that the Nobel Committee
> couldn't spot a plagiarism which you are again about to attribute to
> two of the most celebrated physicists of all time?
> 
> I believe it's worth mentioning that someone who had actually done
> any real research into Einstein's life would have at least got the
> year he won the Nobel Prize right.
> 
>> But again, it is not Einstein, but Wilhelm Wien and
>> Max Planck who deserve the credit.
> 
> It should also be mentioned that if you follow the author's logic
> through to conclusion; Planck, who combined the formulae of Raleigh and
> Wein to come up with his principle, is also a plagiarist.
> 
> Not to mention that Planck's derivations are a direct application of
> the Boltzmann equation, which you claim that Einstein stole in a
> previous paragraph.
> 
> The same double-standard rears its head yet again.
> 
> At least when the author was writing about Special Relativity, he used
> scientists who were working in the same (broad) area as Einstein.
> 
> Now, he's going to claim that Einstein plagiarized from scientists
> who were working in a completely different field, namely Black Body
> Radiation.
> 
>> The main point of Einstein's paper, and the point for
>> which he is given credit, is that light is emitted and
>> absorbed in finite packets called quanta. This was the
>> explanation for the photoelectric effect. The
>> photoelectric effect had been explained by Heinrich
>> Hertz in 1888.
> 
> Hertz concluded his paper with the words: "... I confine myself at
> present to communicating the results obtained, without attempting any
> theory respecting the manner in which the observed phenomena are
> brought about."
> 
> This is, put simply, what separates Hertz' work from Einstein's.
> Hertz concentrated on what happened, whereas Einstein's work
> concentrated on how it happened.  There's a difference.  Hertz'
> work never included the theory that light is emitted and absorbed in
> finite packets, which was the central point of Einstein's work.
> 
> Where's the plagiarism?
> 
> It also, again, raises the question that if Einstein were truly a
> fraud, and he is worshipped so because he was Jewish, why Hertz isn't
> equally worshipped.  He, too, was Jewish.
> 
>> Hertz and others, including Philipp Lenard, worked on
>> understanding this phenomenon. Lenard was the first to
>> show that the energy of the electrons released in the
>> photoelectric effect was not governed by the intensity
>> of the light but by the frequency of the light. This
>> was an important breakthrough.
> 
> True, technically, but Lenard failed to explain the phenomenon.  He was
> unable to come up with a sound theory which explained his observation.
> This is where Einstein came in.
> 
> Einstein possessed theoretical insight that Lenard lacked, and
> succeeded in explaining and formulating the photoelectric effect.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, Lenard never forgave Einstein for beating
> him to Photoelectricity, but he never once contested Einstein's claim
> to it.
> 
> In fact, he would spend years trying to disprove Einstein's theory,
> either experimentally or by showing a logical fallacy in his work.  He
> would ultimately fail, and resorted to a smear campaign.  This would
> ultimately fail because the person he was attempting to give credit for
> Einstein's work (Hasen=F6hrl) told him to stop.
> 
>> Wien and Planck were colleagues and they were the
>> fathers of modern day quantum theory.
> 
> Which I don't believe anybody seriously denies, including those who
> think Einstein is pretty cool.
> 
>> By 1900, Max Planck, based upon his and Wien's work,
>> had shown that radiated energy was absorbed and
>> emitted in finite units called quanta.
> 
> However, they discovered this in relation to Black Bodies (which, for
> those of you who care about such things, is something of a misnomer.
> "Black Bodies" don't necessarily need to be black.  For that
> matter, they don't necessarily need to be bodies).  Planck came up
> with the theory that energy exists in quantized amounts to explain what
> was known as the "Ultraviolet Catastrophe."  This had absolutely
> nothing to do with photoelectricity.
> 
>> The only difference in his work of 1900 and Einstein's
>> work of 1905
> 
> .=2E.apart from the fact that they dealt with completely different
> physical concepts...
> 
>> was that Einstein limited himself to talking about one
>> particular type of energy - light energy.
> 
> Photoelectric: Photo=3Dlight, electric=3Dself-explanatory.
> 
> If he'd meant to study another form of energy, he would have called
> it something else.
> 
>> But the principles and equations governing the process
>> in general had been deduced by Planck in 1900.
> 
> Um, no.  To those of us who actually learned to read, Planck's work
> and derivations look nothing whatsoever like Einstein's.
> 
> In fact, Black Body radiation is governed by completely different
> equations from photoelectricity.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> Nice try, though.
> 
>> Einstein himself admitted that the obvious conclusion
>> of Planck's work was that light also existed in
>> discrete packets of energy.
> 
> But nobody had considered the possibility before Einstein came along.
> 
> And more importantly, nobody had considered the consequences of it.
> 
>> Thus, nothing in this paper of Einstein's was
>> original.
> 
> Please provide the name of the scientist who formulated
> photoelectricity (what Einstein is credited with) before Einstein.
> I'll wait.
> 
>> After the 1905 papers of Einstein were published, the
>> scientific community took little notice and Einstein
>> continued his job at the patent office until 1909 when
>> it was arranged for him to take a position at a school
>> by World Jewry.
> 
> Sieg Heil.
> 
>> Still, it was not until a 1919 newspaper headline that
>> he gained any notoriety.
> 
> And that headline is suspiciously absent here.  It, of course,
> announced that direct observation had substantiated Einstein's
> postulates.
> 
>> With Einstein's academic appointment in 1909,
> 
> And you don't mention how he managed that when you insist that up to
> this point, he was "without success" in getting a position at a
> university.
> 
> Academic appointments generally aren't given to people who lack at
> least one degree.
> 
>> he was placed in a position where he could begin to
>> use other people's work as his own more openly.
> 
> He probably could have.  What you have not established, and do not
> establish, is that he did.
> 
>> He engaged many of his students to look for ways to
>> prove the theories he had supposedly developed,
> 
> This is possibly the closest to a truthful statement in the entire
> essay.  All you need to do is remove the word "supposedly" in the
> sentence above, and you have a completely true statement.
> 
>> or ways to apply those theories, and then he could
>> present the research as his own or at least take
>> partial credit.
> 
> And you have yet to cast any doubt whatsoever on whether he was
> perfectly right to do so.
> 
>> In this vein, in 1912, he began to try and express his
>> gravitational research in terms of a new, recently
>> developed calculus,
> 
> The tensor calculus developed by Levi-Civita.  Also, by the way,
> Jewish.
> 
>> which was conducive to understanding relativity. This
>> was the beginning of his General Theory of Relativity,
>> which he would publish in 1915.
> 
> True.
> 
>> But the mathematical work was not done by Einstein -
>> he was incapable of it.
> 
> He wasn't the only one.  Even today, people who can are few and far
> between.  He would, however, learn to do it.
> 
>> Instead, it was performed by the mathematician Marcel
>> Grossmann,
> 
> Einstein's buddy from ETH, the internationally-recognized school you
> insist he wasn't able to get into.
> 
> Grossman was also, incidentally, Jewish.
> 
>> who in turn used the mathematical principles developed
>> by Berhard Riemann, who was the first to develop a
>> sound non-Euclidean geometry, which is the basis of
>> all mathematics used to describe relativity.
> 
> I am going to make something of a revelation here to the author:
> 
> Mathematics and Physics are separate disciplines.
> 
> The application of a mathematical concept to a physical principle does
> not equate to plagiarism.  For example: Gauss' Divergence Theorem is
> one of the most-often used mathematical principles in electrodynamics.
> Yet, if applying this theorem equated to plagiarism, it should be noted
> that the author of this piece has in previous paragraphs applauded as a
> genius someone who should be a plagiarist: James Clerk Maxwell.
> 
> In fact, if we follow the author's logic through to conclusion,
> Riemann plagiarized his work as well: he applied the mathematical
> principles of addition, subtraction, multiplication and division;
> concepts he did not invent.
> 
>> The General Theory of Relativity applied the
>> principles of relativity to the universe; that is, to
>> the gravitational pull of planets and their orbits,
>> and the general principle that light rays bend as they
>> pass by a massive object. Einstein published an
>> initial paper in 1913 based upon the work which
>> Grossmann did, adapting the math of Riemann to
>> Relativity.
> 
> Throughout this passage, you would have us believe that the application
> of a mathematical principle is sufficient grounds to assume plagiarism.
> 
> This is, of course, bullshit.
> 
>> But this paper was filled with errors and the
>> conclusions were incorrect.
> 
> Which, far from establishing plagiarism, only goes to show that even
> Einstein doesn't always get it exactly right on his first try.
> 
> It also brings up a rather interesting question... If the only reason
> for Einstein's fame is the fact that he was Jewish, as you would have
> us believe; why didn't the unidentified conspirators (for which, I
> might add, the author provides absolutely no evidence) bury his faulty
> 1913 paper?
> 
>> It appears that Grossmann was not smart enough to
>> figure it out for Einstein.  So Einstein was forced to
>> look elsewhere to plagiarize his General Theory.
>>
>> Einstein published his correct General Theory of
>> Relativity in 1915, and said prior to its publication
>> that he, "...completely succeeded in convincing
>> Hilbert and Klein." He is referring to David Hilbert,
>> perhaps the most brilliant mathematician of the 20th
>> century, and Felix Klein, another mathematician who
>> had been instrumental in the development of the area
>> of calculus that Grossmann had used to develop the
>> General Theory of Relativity for Einstein.
> 
> Except that Grossmann developed the math that Einstein used to
> formulate General Relativity, not relativity itself.  There's a
> difference.
> 
> For example, I'm not plagiarizing whoever invented multiplication if
> I employ a formula that uses it, am I?
> 
> If one of my derivations happens to include Pythagoras' theorem, am I
> plagiarizing Pythagoras?
> 
>> Einstein's statement regarding the two men would lead
>> the reader to believe that Einstein had changed
>> Hilbert's and Klein's opinions regarding General
>> Relativity, and that he had influenced them in their
>> thinking. However, the exact opposite is true.
>> Einstein stole the majority of his General Relativity
>> work from these two men, the rest being taken from
>> Grossmann.
> 
> See, the author has basically two strategies at his disposal:
> 
> 1) Twist the facts so that they fit your agenda.
> 
> or
> 
> 2) When you don't have any facts that can be made to fit your agenda,
> make some up.  Most civilized people call this lying.
> 
> Basically, this whole paragraph is one completely unfounded allegation.
> 
>> Hilbert submitted for publication, a week before
>> Einstein completed his work, a paper which contained
>> the correct field equations of General Relativity.
>> What this means is that Hilbert wrote basically the
>> exact same paper, with the same conclusions, before
>> Einstein did.
> 
> No, what this means is that Hilbert published a paper which included
> field equations which were also used in General Relativity. They're
> far from being all of it.  Indeed, Hilbert saw a small piece of the
> greater puzzle that was General Relativity.
> 
> Of course, the fact that Hilbert's work involves Tensor calculus, and
> mathematical concepts that he did not invent, renders Hilbert's work
> plagiarized as well, according to the author of this piece.
> 
> For those of you keeping score, I've pointed out four prominent
> scientists named in this essay: Planck, Hilbert, Lorentz, and Maxwell.
> 
> I have pointed out that the author's logic leads to the conclusion
> that each one was a plagiarist.  Yet, the author does not denounce even
> one as a fraud.  I wonder why.
> 
>> Einstein would have had an opportunity to know of
>> Hilbert's work all along, because there were Jewish
>> friends of his working for Hilbert.
> 
> Sieg Heil.
> 
>> Yet, even this was not necessary, for Einstein had
>> seen Hilbert's paper in advance of publishing his own.
> 
> Which begs the obvious question: if Einstein didn't need friends to
> collect Hilbert's work (ignoring for the moment that you provide no
> evidence that he had such friends available to obtain Hilbert's work
> for him), why do you even bother mentioning it?
> 
>> Both of these papers were, before being printed,
>> delivered in the form of a lecture.
>>
>> Einstein presented his paper on November 25, 1915 in
>> Berlin and Hilbert had presented his paper on November
>> 20 in G=F6ttingen. On November 18, Hilbert received a
>> letter from Einstein thanking him for sending him a
>> draft of the treatise Hilbert was to deliver on the
>> 20th. So, in fact, Hilbert had sent a copy of his work
>> at least two weeks in advance to Einstein before
>> either of the two men delivered their lectures, but
>> Einstein did not send Hilbert an advance copy of his.
>> Therefore, this serves as incontrovertible proof that
>> Einstein quickly plagiarized the work and then
>> presented it, hoping to beat Hilbert to the punch.
> 
> In the printed version of his paper, Hilbert wrote:
> 
> "The differential equations of gravitation that result are, as it
> seems to me, in agreement with the magnificent theory of general
> relativity ***established by Einstein in his later papers.***"
> (***Emphasis*** mine)
> 
> Among scientists, this constitutes a concession of the priority of
> Einstein's work.  A very nice paper putting to rest the question of
> priority between Einstein and Hilbert can be found in "Science"
> Volume 278 (Nov. 14, 1997) pages 1270-1273.  The title of the article
> is "Belated Decision on the Hilbert-Einstein priority dispute" and
> is written by L Corry, J Renn and J Stachel.
> 
> It would seem that I've just contested your "incontrovertible
> proof."  If Hilbert felt he was being plagiarized, why on Earth did
> he go out of his way to concede priority for General Relativity to
> Einstein?
> 
>> Also, at the same time, Einstein publicly began to
>> belittle Hilbert, even though in the previous summer
>> he had praised him in an effort to get Hilbert to
>> share his work with him.
>>
>> Hilbert made the mistake of sending Einstein this
>> draft copy, but still he delivered his work first.
> 
> Whether he delivered it first or not, you fail to explain why he
> conceded priority for General Relativity to Einstein.
> 
>> Not only did Hilbert publish his work first, but it
>> was of much higher quality than Einstein's. It is
>> known today that there are many problems with
>> assumptions made in Einstein's General Theory paper.
>> We know today that Hilbert was much closer to the
>> truth.
> 
> Not on General Relativity, no.
> 
>> Hilbert's paper is the forerunner of the unified field
>> theory of gravitation and electromagnetism and of the
>> work of Erwin Schr=F6dinger, whose work is the basis of
>> all modern day quantum mechanics.
> 
> You do realize that Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are two different
> things, right?
> 
> And note, applying the same standard to Schr=F6dinger as the author has
> to Einstein, the author has him/herself described Schr=F6dinger as a
> plagiarist.
> 
>> That the group of men discussed so far were the actual
>> originators of the ideas claimed by Einstein was known
>> by the scientific community all along. In 1940, a
>> group of German physicists meeting in Austria declared
>> that "before Einstein, Aryan scientists like Lorentz,
>> Hasen=F6hrl, Poincar=E9, etc., had created the foundations
>> of the theory of relativity..."
> 
> Hold that thought for just a moment...
> 
>> However, the Jewish media did not promote the work of
>> these men. The Jewish media did not promote the work
>> of David Hilbert, but instead they promoted the work
>> of the Jew Albert Einstein.
> 
> Don't you think it's just slightly hypocritical to accuse the media
> of biased promotion of Einstein because he was Jewish in the same
> proverbial breath as you quoted scientists from Nazi Germany (during
> the time when "Jewish Physics" was being openly and publicly
> condemned) to support your thesis that Einstein was a dolt?
> 
>> As we mentioned earlier, this General Theory, as
>> postulated by Hilbert first and in plagiarized form by
>> Einstein second, stated that light rays should bend
>> when they pass by a massive object.
> 
> Actually, Einstein first suggested that light would bend around a
> massive object in a paper in 1907, four years before Hilbert and
> Einstein would publish their papers on General Relativity.
> 
>> In 1919, during the eclipse of the Sun, light from
>> distant stars passing close to the Sun was observed to
>> bend according to the theory. This evidence supported
>> the General Theory of Relativity, and the
>> Jewish-controlled media immediately seized upon the
>> opportunity to prop up Einstein as a hero, at the
>> expense of the true genius, David Hilbert.
> 
> If you're looking for someone to blame for the credit given to
> Einstein, blame Hilbert.  I point out that he himself conceded priority
> for General Relativity to Einstein, as demonstrated above.
> 
>> On November 7th, 1919, the London Times ran an
>> article, the headline of which proclaimed, "Revolution
>> in science - New theory of the Universe - Newtonian
>> ideas overthrown." This was the beginning of the
>> force-feeding of the Einstein myth to the masses. In
>> the following years, Einstein's earlier 1905 papers
>> were propagandized and Einstein was heralded as the
>> originator of all the ideas he had stolen.
> 
> With the minor flaw in your logic being that he hadn't stolen his
> ideas.  So far you've established that exactly zero (0) of his ideas
> were stolen.
> 
>> Because of this push by the Jewish media, in 1922, ...
> 
> .=2E.1921, actually...
> 
>> =2E..Einstein received the Nobel Prize for the work he
>> had stolen in 1905 regarding the photoelectric effect.
> 
> And work you failed to establish was, in fact, stolen.
> 
>> The establishment of the Einstein farce between 1919
>> and 1922 was an important coup for world Zionism and
>> Jewry. As soon as Einstein had been established as an
>> idol to the popular masses of England and America, his
>> image was promoted as the rare genius that he is
>> erroneously believed to be today.
> 
> Indeed, he is probably a greater genius than he is erroneously believed
> to be today, as more and more of his postulates are being supported by
> experimentation which he could not have performed during his lifetime.
> 
>> As such, he immediately began his work as a tool for
>> World Zionism. The masses bought into the idea that if
>> someone was so brilliant as to change our fundamental
>> understanding of the universe, then certainly we ought
>> to listen to his opinions regarding political and
>> social issues. This is exactly what World Jewry wanted
>> to establish in its ongoing effort of social
>> engineering.
>>
>> They certainly did not want someone like David Hilbert
>> to be recognized as rare genius. After all, this
>> physicist
> 
> Hilbert was really far more of a mathematician than a physicist.
> 
>> had come from a strong German, Christian background.
>> His grandfather's two middle names were "F=FCrchtegott
>> Leberecht" or "Fear God, Live Right."
> 
> I'd like to hear your explanation of exactly what Hilbert's
> Grandfater's middle names have to do with anything.
> 
> What's the next irrelevant detail you're going to bring up, the
> maiden name of Hilbert's second cousin, four times removed's
> chiropractor's aunt?
> 
>> In August of 1934, the day before a vote was to be
>> taken regarding installing Adolf Hitler as President
>> of the Reich, Hilbert signed a proclamation in support
>> of Adolf Hitler, along with other leading German
>> scientists, that was published in the German
>> newspapers. So the Jews certainly did not want David
>> Hilbert receiving the credit he deserved.
> 
> Hilbert, admittedly, never won a Nobel Prize.  This is largely a
> consequence of the fact that none is offered in mathematics.
> 
> He did, however, receive many honors throughout his career, and is
> still viewed by those who care about such things as one of the most
> brilliant mathematicians of the 20th century.
> 
> If the Jews didn't want him getting any credit, they did a really
> lousy job of keeping it away from him.
> 
>> The Jews did not want Max Planck receiving the credit
>> he deserved either. This German's grandfather and
>> great-grandfather had been important German
>> theologians, and during World War II he would stay in
>> Germany throughout the war, supporting his fatherland
>> the best he could.
> 
> Planck got the Nobel Prize in Physics for his work in Blackbody
> Radiation in 1918...  Three years before Einstein, and is today
> regarded as one of the most brilliant physicists ever to have lived;
> looked upon with nearly as much reverence as Einstein himself.
> 
> If the Jews didn't want him receiving any credit, they did a crappy
> job of keeping it away from him, too.
> 
> It's also worth mentioning that Planck wasn't as supportive of his
> "fatherland" as you're making it sound here.  His son was executed for
> a plot to assasinate Hitler, and for a time he both praised Einstein
> (in direct opposition to the Nazis who were openly condemning "Jewish
> Physics"), and publicly denounced the actions of the Nazis, intervening
> on behalf of Jewish scientists.  He even met with Hitler in an attempt
> to stop actions against Jewish scientists and when that ultimately
> failed, he resigned his position as president at the Kaiser Wilhelm
> Institute in 1937 in protest.  He had held the position since 1930.
> 
> Many people, Jews and non-Jews view Planck as a hero.
> 
>> The Jews certainly did not want the up-and-coming
>> Erwin Schr=F6dinger to be heralded as a genius to the
>> masses.
> 
> Schr=F6dinger won the Nobel prize in Physics in 1933... Twelve years
> after Einstein.
> 
> He, also, is considered one of the most brilliant physicists who ever
> lived.  The infamous "Schr=F6dinger Equation" is one of the greatest
> discoveries in the history of physics, and is perhaps second only to
> E=3Dmc2 as the single most famous equation in modern physics.
> 
> So far, the Jews are zero for three keeping credit away from prominent
> scientists.
> 
>> This Austrian physicist would go on to teach at Adolf
>> Hitler University in Austria, and he wrote a public
>> letter expressing his support for the Third Reich.
> 
> Not exactly.  It wasn't actually Adolf Hitler University while
> Schr=F6dinger started teaching there. Schr=F6dinger left Germany in 1933
> specifically because he felt he could not live in a country where the
> persecution of Jews had become national policy.  He ended up in Graz
> where he taught until 1938.  He would be dismissed from his post on
> August 26, 1938 for "political unreliability."  He would work in
> conjunction with Alexander Lindemann to arrange positions in England
> for Jewish scientists.
> 
> Not exactly the kind of guy that the Jews would want to condemn,
> frankly.
> 
>> This Austrian's work on the unified field theory was a
>> forerunner of modern physics, even though it had been
>> criticized by Einstein, who apparently could not
>> understand it.
> 
> On the contrary, he understood it well enough to punch what was thought
> for years to be a gigantic hole in it, known as the
> Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen paradox.
> 
>> The Jews did not want to have Werner Heisenberg
>> promoted as a rare genius,
> 
> Heisenberg won the Nobel Prize in physics in 1932, and his famous
> "Uncertainty Principle" is still the benchmark of modern Quantum
> Mechanics.
> 
> In the past few paragraphs, you've named three prominent physicists,
> and one prominent mathematician (Namely Planck, Heisenberg, Hilbert and
> Schrodinger), claiming that each was denied credit for their work
> because of "the Jews."
> 
> Planck, Heisenberg, and Schr=F6dinger (all Nobel Prize winners), are
> among the most celebrated physicists of all time.  Among those of us
> who actually study physics (if not the general public), their names are
> spoken with almost the same level of reverence reserved for Einstein.
> Hilbert, for those who care about such things, is considered one of the
> greatest, if not the greatest mathematician who ever lived (with the
> possible exceptions of Gauss or Euler).
> 
>> even though he would go on to solidify quantum theory
>> and contribute to it greatly, as well as develop his
>> famous uncertainty principle, in addition to
>> describing the modern  atom and nucleus and the
>> binding energies that are essential to modern
>> chemistry.  No, the Jews did not want Heisenberg
>> promoted as a genius because he would go on to head
>> the German atomic bomb project and serve prison time
>> after the war for his involvement with the Third
>> Reich.
> 
> Heisenberg had his appointment as professor of theoretical physics at
> Munich blocked several times by the Third Reich, because he was working
> in an area of physics that was deemed "Jewish."  He refused on several
> occasions, and with the possibility of very serious consequences, and
> under constant attacks from the press for his area of research, to
> change his area of research.  Not exactly the kind of guy that the Jews
> would have an interest in condemning.
> 
> The reason why Planck, Heisenberg and Schr=F6dinger are not terribly
> close to people's minds is because they chose an area of physics
> people find difficult to understand.  Not to mention one that isn't
> terribly elegant (QM tends to be big and ugly).  Einstein, on the other
> hand, formulated something concrete, observable, and elegant in its
> simplicity.  Something the general population could get a grip on.
> Relativity is a lot easier to get a grasp of than Quantum Mechanics,
> especially if you don't have to do the math behind either one.  Even
> in qualitative terms, many have trouble grasping (as Einstein did) that
> a particle has no definite quantities until you measure them.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that Relativity is still the best blueprint we
> have so far of the universe.
> 
> Nevertheless, among those who care about such things (if not the
> general public), Planck, Heisenberg and Schr=F6dinger are still among
> the most celebrated physicists of all time.  Second only, perhaps, to
> Einstein himself.
> 
>> No, the Jews did not want to give credit to any of a
>> number of white Germans,
> 
> Um, not to point out the obvious, but Einstein ***was*** a white
> German.
> 
>> Austrians, Irishmen, Frenchmen, Scotsmen, Englishmen,
>> and even Americans who had contributed to the body of
>> knowledge and evidence from which Einstein plagiarized
>> and stole his work.
> 
> And, strangely enough, you've failed miserably to show that the work
> is plagiarized.
> 
>> Instead, they needed to erect Einstein as their golden
>> calf, even though he repeatedly and often embarrassed
>> himself with his nonfactual or nearsighted comments
>> regarding the work he had supposedly done. For
>> example, in 1934, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette ran a
>> front page article in which Einstein gave an "emphatic
>> denial" regarding the idea of practical applications
>> for the "energy of the atom."
> 
> In which he doesn't actually deny the applications of the energy of
> the atom, merely that this is a power that he doesn't trust human
> beings to wield.  We detonated the first atomic bomb in Hiroshima.
> We've been trying to atone for it ever since.
> 
>> The article says, "But the 'energy of the atom' is
>> something else again. If you believe that man will
>> someday be able to harness this boundless energy-to
>> drive a great steamship across the ocean on a pint of
>> water, for instance-then, according to Einstein, you
>> are wrong..."
> 
> No... According to Einstein, the energy of the Atom is something that
> shouldn't be used, not something that can't.  There's an
> important distinction there.
> 
> I also point out that nobody has managed yet to derive any substantial
> quantity of energy from a pint of water.  Pons and Fleischmann claim
> that they've managed to do it, but so far their experiment has never
> been reproduced.
> 
>> Again, Einstein clearly did not understand the branch
>> of physics he had supposedly founded,
> 
> On the contrary, he understood it so well that he realized how
> terrifyingly powerful the technology was.  Considering that the first
> application of this technology was to flatten two cities, I'd say
> that his concerns were quite well founded.
> 
>> though elsewhere in the world at the time theoretical
>> research was underway that would lead to the atomic
>> bomb and nuclear energy. But after Einstein was
>> promoted as a god in 1919, he made no real attempts to
>> plagiarize any other work.
> 
> And, while we're on the subject, he made no such attempts before
> then, either.
> 
>> Rather, he began his real purpose - evangelizing for
>> the cause of Zionism and World Jewry.
> 
> If his "real purpose" was "evangelizing for the cause of Zionism
> and World Jewry" (whatever the heck that is), how do you explain the
> fact that the human population at large views Einstein as a brilliant
> physicist?  Either he did a really lousy job at it, or that wasn't
> his "real purpose."
> 
> Actually, try an experiment.  Go out into the street and ask the first
> 100 people you meet who Albert Einstein was.  Count the number of times
> you receive the answer "Albert Einstein was an evangelist for Zionism
> and World Jewry."  Then compare it to the number of times you get the
> answer "Albert Einstein was a physicist," or "Albert Einstein is
> the guy who came up with the theory of relativity," or something
> similar.
> 
>> Though he did publish other articles after this time,
>> all of them were co-authored by at least one other
>> person,
> 
> Try an experiment sometime: go through a peer-reviewed scientific
> journal (any peer-reviewed scientific journal), and count the number of
> articles which have only one author.  Such a thing, believe me, is
> extremely uncommon.
> 
>> and in each instance, Einstein had little if anything
>> to do with the research that led to the articles; he
>> was merely recruited by the co-authors in order to
>> lend credence to their work. Thus freed of the
>> pretense of academia,
> 
> Einstein was never truly freed from academia.  He would continue in his
> attempts to bridge the quantum universe with the relativistic universe
> until he died.
> 
>> Einstein began his assault for World Zionism.
> 
> Sieg Heil.
> 
>> In 1921,
> 
> The same year he won the Nobel Prize... one year before you say he did.
> 
>> Einstein made his first visit to the United States on
>> a fund-raising tour for the Hebrew University in
>> Jerusalem and to promote Zionism. In April of 1922,
> 
> The year you claim he won the Nobel Prize...  Let me know when Bohr
> calls you, asking in which direction you'd like him to roll over in
> his grave.
> 
>> Einstein used his status to gain membership in a
>> Commission of the League of Nations. In February of
>> 1923, Einstein visits Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. In June
>> of 1923, he becomes a founding member of the
>> Association of Friends of the New Russia. In 1926,
>> Einstein took a break from his Communist and Zionistic
>> activities to again embarrass himself scientifically
>> by criticizing the work of Schr=F6dinger and Heisenberg.
> 
> And for a time (nearly 30 years) it looked as though he was right to do
> so.  He found what appeared to be a gigantic hole in quantum theory
> which the quantum theorists, try as they might, couldn't patch up.
> 
>> Following a brief illness, he resumes his Zionistic
>> agenda, wanting an independent Israel and at the same
>> time a World Government.
>>
>> In the 1930s he actively campaigns against all forms
>> of war, although he would reverse this position during
>> World War II when he advocated war against Germany and
>> the creation of the atomic bomb, which he thought was
>> impossible to build.
> 
> Actually, this is a completely false statement.
> 
> Einstein never once said, nor even implied that the atom bomb was
> impossible to make.
> 
> In fact, he wrote a letter to Roosevelt saying specifically that such a
> weapon could be built.
> 
> I have quoted the first few paragraphs of his letter (dated August 2,
> 1939) below:
> 
> Sir:
> 
> Some recent work by E. Fermi and L. Szilard, which has been
> communicated to me in a manuscript, leads me to expect that the element
> uranium may be turned into a new and important source of energy in the
> immediate future.  Certain aspects of the situation which has arisen
> seem to call for watchfulness and, if necessary, quick action on the
> part of the Administration.  I believe therefore that it is my duty to
> bring to your attention the following facts and recommendations.
> 
> In the course of the last four months it has been made probable -
> through the work of Joliot in France as well as Fermi and Szilard in
> America - that it may become possible to set up a nuclear chain
> reaction in a large mass of uranium, by which vast amounts of power and
> large quantities of new radium-like elements would be generated.  Now
> it appears almost certain that this could be achieved in the immediate
> future.
> 
> This new phenomenon would also lead to the construction of bombs, and
> it is conceivable - though much less certain - that extremely
> powerful bombs of a new type, may thus be constructed. A single bomb of
> this type, carried by boat and exploded in a port, might very well
> destroy the whole port together with some of the surrounding territory.
>  However, such bombs might very well prove to be too heavy for
> transportation by air.
> 
> [=2E..]
> 
> Note that Einstein predicts, with somewhat eerie accuracy, what an
> atomic bomb is capable of.
> 
> However, while he knew that such a weapon was possible, he didn't
> feel that one should be used.  His final letter to Roosevelt (which,
> sadly, did not arrive before Roosevelt's death) detailed his concern
> over the possible applications of this technology.
> 
> The fact that something can be done doesn't necessarily mean that it
> should.
> 
>> In 1939 and 1940, Einstein, at the request of other
>> Jews, wrote two letters to Roosevelt urging an
>> American program to develop an atomic bomb
> 
> Actually, he wrote four letters to Roosevelt, but none of them were
> "urging the production of an atomic bomb."
> 
> All of them concerned the applications of atomic energy.
> 
> The first three (between August 1939, and May 1940) mentioned that
> Germany was pursuing research into Uranium as an energy source.  The
> fourth (drafted in 1945), voiced his concern over the separation
> between the physicists who developed the technology, and the people who
> would actually be using it.  The former wanted a new energy source.
> The latter wanted bombs.
> 
>> to be used on Germany - not Japan.
> 
> Not one single letter ever mentions the United States using a bomb on
> anybody.  His concern was the fact that Germany could be developing
> atomic technology when the United States wasn't.
> 
> Never once did he advocate the actual use of such an atomic weapon.  In
> fact he was very publicly vocal on his opposition of the use of such a
> weapon.
> 
> All four letters Einstein wrote to Roosevelt can be found here:
> http://hypertextbook.com/eworld/einstein.shtml#first
> 
> Readers will note the complete absence of the words "Bomb Germany
> back into the stone age."
> 
>> Einstein would have no part in the actual construction
>> of the bomb, theoretical or practical,
> 
> This is not entirely true.
> 
> Vannevar Bush, the "man behind the scenes" of the atom bomb,
> approached Einstein in December 1941 to ask for his help with regards
> to separating fissionable material by gaseous diffusion.
> 
> But for a large part, Einstein was kept out of it.
> 
>> because he lacked the skills for either.
> 
> And this is entirely false.
> 
> Bush later specifically excluded Einstein from the construction of the
> atomic bomb.  Not because Einstein was incompetent, but because, in his
> words:
> 
> "I am not at all sure... [Einstein] would not discuss it in a way
> that it should not be discussed."
> 
> Einstein had openly said that he opposed the use of such a weapon, Bush
> likely feared that his statements about it would carry some weight if
> he knew more about how it was built.
> 
> For example, if Einstein had known how Louis P. Slotin died during the
> construction of the first bomb at Los Alamos, he may well have been
> able to bolster the support necessary to halt construction of Fat Man
> and Little Boy.
> 
>> In December of 1946, Einstein rekindles his efforts
>> for a World Government,
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, nothing Einstein ever wrote has the words
> "World Government" in it.
> 
> To date, I have never seen any evidence that he ever actually used the
> words "World Government," at least not in the context that you're
> attempting to create.
> 
>> with Israel apparently being the only autonomous
>> nation. This push continues through the rest of the
>> 1940s. In 1952, Einstein, who had been instrumental in
>> the creation of the State of Israel, both politically
>> and economically, is offered the presidency of Israel.
>> He declines.
> 
> This would prove to be something of an embarrassment to Einstein.  It
> was difficult to decline the offer without giving offence.
> 
> It also brings up another obvious question: Why would he turn down a
> position which would aid in his quest for a "World Government" if
> that was what he was seeking?
> 
>> In 1953, he spends his time attacking the McCarthy
>> Committee,
> 
> And rightly so: McCarthy was on a witch hunt, plain and simple.
> 
>> and he supports Communists such as J. Robert
>> Oppenheimer.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that no credible evidence has ever been
> produced that Oppenheimer was a communist.  His mistress was, but
> that's a completely different matter.
> 
>> He encourages civil disobedience in response to the
>> McCarthy trials.
> 
> And rightly so, for the same reasons stated above.  The House
> UnAmerican Activities Committee was, ironically, among the most
> un-American activities ever taken on American soil.  As Americans, it
> is not only our right, but our duty to raise our voices against those
> in power when we feel that power is being abused.
> 
>> Finally, on April 18, 1955, this filthy Jewish
>> demagogue dies.
> 
> Wow.  You actually got the date of his death correct.  I'm officially
> impressed.
> 
> However, while his hair was often quite unkempt, I think it's
> something of an exaggeration to describe him as "filthy."
> 
>> Dead, the Jews no longer had to worry about Einstein
>> making stupid statements.
> 
> "Where the world ceases to be the scene of our personal hopes and
> wishes, where we face it as free beings, admiring, asking and
> observing, there we enter the realm of art and science."
> A. Einstein
> 
> "I want to know God's thoughts; the rest are details."
> A. Einstein
> 
> "Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from
> mediocre minds."
> A. Einstein
> 
> "I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World
> War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
> A. Einstein
> 
> "The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of
> thinking...the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind.
> If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker."
> A. Einstein
> 
> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.  It is
> the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is
> a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is
> as good as dead: his eyes are closed."
> A. Einstein
> 
>> His death was just the beginning of his usage and
>> exploitation by World Jewry. The Jewish-controlled
>> media continued to promote the myth of this Super-Jew
>> long after his death, and as more and more of the men
>> who knew better died off,
> 
> Translation:  We have absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anybody at
> all knew that Einstein was a fraud, but since they're dead, we can
> claim that they did without fear of contradiction.
> 
>> the Jews were more and more able to aggrandize his
>> myth and lie more boldly. This brazen lying has
>> culminated in the Jew controlled Time magazine naming
>> Einstein "The Person of the Century" at the close of
>> 1999. It may be demonstrated that the Jewish lies have
>> become more bold with the passage of time because
>> Einstein was never named "Man of the Year" while he
>> was alive, but now, over forty years after his death,
>> he is named "Person of the Century."
> 
> and deservedly so.
> 
>> Einstein was given this title in spite of the
>> clear-cut choice for the "Person of the Century,"
>> Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Sieg Heil.
> 
>> Hitler was indeed named "Man of the Year" while he was
>> still living by Time magazine,
> 
> You realize that being "Man of the Year," doesn't necessarily make you
> a good person, right?
> 
>> and according to a
>> December 27, 1999, article in the USA Today, Einstein
>> was chosen over Adolf Hitler because of the perceived
>> "nasty public relations fallout" that would accompany
>> that choice;
> 
> Or maybe they wanted to start the century on a positive note.
> 
>> yet in internet polling by Time, Hitler
>> finished third and was the top serious candidate.
>> Still the issue of Time magazine dedicated to
>> Einstein, which has articles by men with names like
>> Isaacson, Golden, Stein, Rudenstine, and Rosenblatt,
>> is interesting to read. For one, they found it
>> necessary to include an article rationalizing why they
>> did not pick the obvious choice, Adolf Hitler.
> 
> Obvious, why?
> 
>> But more interesting is the article by Stephen Hawking
>> which purports to be a history of the theory of
>> relativity. In it, Hawking admits many of the things
>> in this article, such as the fact that Hilbert
>> published the General Theory of Relativity before
>> Einstein and that FitzGerald and Lorentz deduced the
>> concept of relativity long before Einstein.
> 
> Note, you don't actually quote Hawking here, largely because if you
> did, you'd find that you were misrepresenting (to be kind) his words.
> 
> Instead, you lie about what Hawking says, and hope that nobody notices.
> 
> To those of us who learned to read in kindergarten, Hawking's words
> actually support what I've presented in this refutation.
> 
> You can find the actual article, entitled "A Brief History of
> Relativity" here:
> http://www.time.com/time/time100/poc/magazine/a_brief_history_of_rela6a.html
> 
> Hawking's own words refute this bullshit much more effectively than I
> can.
> 
> It is also worth mentioning that Hawking works with Einstein's theory
> of Relativity more closely than most people.  Never once in any of his
> publications, speeches, or lectures, has Hawking ever claimed the
> Einstein was a plagiarist.
> 
>> Hawking also writes,
>>
>> "Einstein...was deeply disturbed by the work of Werner
>> Heisenberg in Copenhagen, Paul Dirac in Cambridge and
>> Erwin Schr=F6dinger in Zurich, who developed a new
>> picture of reality called quantum mechanics. ...
>> Einstein was horrified by this ... Most scientists,
>> however, accepted the validity of the new quantum laws
>> because they showed excellent agreement with
>> observations ... They are the basis of modern
>> developments in chemistry, molecular biology and
>> electronics and the foundation of the technology that
>> has transformed the world in the past half-century."
> 
> And when you actually do quote Hawking, you've sliced 'n' diced
> what he actually wrote, removing the most relevant details:
> 
> 
> 
> Einstein continued to work on the quantum idea into the 1920s but was
> deeply disturbed by the work of Werner Heisenberg in Copenhagen, Paul
> Dirac in Cambridge and Erwin Schrodinger in Zurich, who developed a new
> picture of reality called quantum mechanics. No longer did tiny
> particles have a definite position and speed. On the contrary, the more
> accurately you determined the particle's position, the less
> accurately you could determine its speed, and vice versa.
> 
> Einstein was horrified by this random, unpredictable element in the
> basic laws and never fully accepted quantum mechanics. His feelings
> were expressed in his famous God-does-not-play-dice dictum. Most other
> scientists, however, accepted the validity of the new quantum laws
> because they showed excellent agreement with observations and because
> they seemed to explain a whole range of previously unaccounted-for
> phenomena. They are the basis of modern developments in chemistry,
> molecular biology and electronics and the foundation of the technology
> that has transformed the world in the past half-century.
> 
> 
> 
> To your credit, you did mark the points you sliced and diced from the
> passage above.  However it is quite clear that you selected the words
> you actually quoted very carefully to give the impression that Einstein
> was a dolt, and to suggest that Hawking supports this position.  In
> other words, while the words themselves may be Hawking's, you have
> radically changed their meaning by selectively removing that which is
> important in the passage.
> 
> What Einstein opposed wasn't Quantum Mechanics as such, but the
> element of randomness incorporated in it.  He didn't like the idea
> that the properties of a particle cannot be determined exactly.  And,
> for a time (nearly 30 years, in fact), it looked as though he was able
> to completely reject this principle on theoretical grounds.
> 
> More on that later.
> 
>> This is all very true,
> 
> .=2E.If you exclude all the false parts...  but if you did that, you
> wouldn't have much left of your essay.
> 
>> yet the same magazine credits Einstein with all of the
>> modern developments that Hawking names,
> 
> And even Hawking himself credits Einstein with all of the modern
> developments that Hawking names; your griping notwithstanding.
> 
> Why, exactly, do you think that is?
> 
>> even through Einstein was so stupid
> 
> The day you can come up with something as ground-breaking as relativity
> is the day you can describe Einstein as "stupid."
> 
>> as to be vehemently against the most important idea of
>> modern science,
> 
> Again, he didn't oppose Quantum Mechanics, he felt that there was
> something fundamental to it that Heisenberg and Schr=F6dinger were
> missing.
> 
> More on that later.
> 
> Furthermore, it's somewhat arguable that Quantum Mechanics is "the
> most important idea of modern science."
> 
>> just as he opposed Schr=F6dinger's work in unified field
>> theory which was far ahead of its time.
> 
> Um, scientists are still trying to develop a Unified Field Theory.
> 
>> The same magazine admits that "success eluded"
>> Einstein in the field of explaining the contradictions
>> between relativity and quantum mechanics.
> 
> Considering that in the 50 years since his death, we're still not
> that much closer to explaining the contradictions between relativity
> and quantum mechanics, that's hardly a basis to conclude he's
> incompetent.
> 
> The first attempt was made to make QM consistent with relativity by
> Dirac.  Quantum Field theory works quite nicely at the subatomic level.
>  However, when you try to apply it to Solar System-sized systems, it
> falls apart.  The Graviton is represented by a divergent series, which
> is bad.
> 
>> Today, these contradictions are explained by the
>> unified field theory,
> 
> How can something which does not yet exist explain anything?  What you
> probably mean is Quantum Field Theory, which doesn't yet explain the
> contradictions between relativity and quantum mechanics.  There are
> also a number of physicists who think they're on to something with
> string theory, but it'll be a while before it's really stapled
> down.
> 
> Moreover, care to guess who it was that discovered that Quantum
> Mechanics and Relativity are inconsistent with each other?
> 
> I'll give you a hint: his last name begins with an "E-" and ends
> with "-instein."
> 
>> but Einstein, who proves himself to be one of the
>> least intelligent of 20th century scientists, refused
>> to believe in either quantum theory
> 
> Einstein is famous for his statement: "God Does not play dice."
> 
> Basically, Einstein's opposition wasn't of Quantum Mechanics per se
> (actually, he was a strong advocate of it), but the orthodox view of
> quantum mechanics.  He felt that Quantum mechanics, such that it was,
> was "correct," but that there was a lot more to the story.
> 
> Let me explain that.
> 
> Suppose, in a time-independent system (and before you ask: yes, there
> are such systems that exist in Quantum Mechanics), we measure the
> position of a particle, and we find that it is at position b.
> 
> The positions on Quantum Mechanics can be neatly summarized by one
> question: where was the particle just before you measured it?  There
> are, in essence, three different viewpoints.
> 
> 1) The particle really wasn't anywhere.  By making the measurement,
> we forced the particle to "take a stand" (why and how it settled on
> position b, we dare not ask).  It's also worth mentioning that if this
> is the "correct" position, then there's something fundamental about the
> act of measuring that we still don't fully understand.  Therefore, the
> best we can do is determine what the probability distribution of the
> particle's position is.  Basically, playing dice.  This is known as
> the orthodox viewpoint (the one advocated by Schrodinger and
> Heisenberg).  It is also worth noting that if this is correct, then
> there is something very fundamental about the very act of measuring
> which many years of science have done little to illuminate.
> 
> 2) The particle was at position b, we just didn't know it.  This is
> the position that Einstein advocated.  It should be mentioned that if
> this is correct, then Quantum Mechanics is incomplete, because the
> particle really was at b, but QM was unable to tell us so.  So,
> corrections are necessary to QM before it is a complete theory.  This
> is what Einstein called "the hidden variable."
> 
> 3) The agnostic viewpoint.  Basically: "Who cares?" It is
> completely senseless to worry about what the particle was doing before
> you measured it when the only way you can determine whether you were
> right is by measuring it.  It's just as sensible to ponder the number
> of angels which can dance on the head of a pin.
> 
> For a long time, the most common procedure among Quantum-Theorists was
> to adopt position #1, then when that started faltering, switch to
> position #3, then change the subject.
> 
> What led Einstein to adopt his position on Quantum Mechanics was a
> thought experiment which found what appeared for almost 30 years to be
> a gigantic hole in QM.  It's called the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen, or
> EPR paradox.
> 
> The argument goes something like this:
> 
> 1=2E all particles have a property called "spin."
> 2=2E electrons can "spin up" or "spin down."
> 3=2E in Quantum Mechnics, it is always possible to couple two electrons
> together so that one spins up and one spins down, but until you
> actually measure the spin of one of the particles you do not know which
> is which.
> 4=2E according to Quantum Mechanics, as long as these two electrons are
> isolated from all other particles in the universe, the distance between
> them does not matter (it can be two feet, to yards, or two light years,
> and it would not change the Quantum Mechanical properties of the
> coupling).
> 5=2E according to Quantum Mechanics, as long as we have not measured the
> spin of a electron after they are coupled, then neither particle has
> "selected" a spin direction.
> 6=2E suppose we now measure the spin of electron #1, and we find it to
> spin up.
> 7=2E I reiterate: by the orthodox viewpoint of QM, the electron wasn't
> spinning up or down before now, it was spinning up *and* down with
> equal probabilities.  It wasn't until you measured it that you made
> the electron spin up.
> 8=2E by the orthodox viewpoint of Quantum Mechanics, electron #2 (which
> may be light years from electron #1, as long as the two electrons
> remain isolated from all particles in the universe) must now spin down.
> 9=2E by the orthodox viewpoint of Quantum Mechanics, if there is any time
> lag between the measurement of the spin of electron #1, and electron #2
> spinning down, conservation of angular momentum is violated.
> 10. Therefore, somehow information was passed from electron #1 to
> electron #2 faster than the speed of light (electron #1 had to
> "tell" electron #2 to start spinning down).
> 11. This is a direct violation of relativity.
> 12. Therefore, he concluded, the orthodox position cannot be correct,
> because it is inconsistent with relativity.  Electron #2 must have
> already been spinning down, but we simply did know enough about the
> system to determine that it was spinning down.  He called this unknown
> information "the hidden variable."
> 
> (NB: this argument works with any property of two coupled particles,
> but I've used spin here because it's the simplest to follow.)
> 
> The EPR paradox was studiously ignored by quantum physicists
> everywhere, largely because nobody could figure out how to put it to
> rest.
> 
> It wasn't until 1964 that Bell dealt the EPR paradox what is
> considered a death blow, by developing formalisms which can be
> experimentally verified.  In the past 30-or-so years, we've been
> slowly gathering evidence.  It's still somewhat hazy as to whether
> Einstein was right or not.
> 
> It is worth mentioning that if Einstein was correct, then all of
> Quantum Mechanics (and that which flows from it) will have to be
> abandoned.  Bell also established that if Einstein was correct, and the
> EPR paradox is truly paradoxical, then QM is not only incomplete,
> it's downright wrong.  No combination of variables will ever render
> QM into a complete theory.  So, if Einstein was correct, we're going
> to see a lot of physicists jumping out of windows and trying to slit
> their wrists with butter knives.
> 
>> or the unified field theory.
> 
> Of course Einstein didn't believe in unified field theory... It
> doesn't exist yet.
> 
>> To name Einstein as "The Person of the Century" is one
>> of the most ludicrous and absurd lies of all time,
> 
> He was named as "The Person of the Century."  Just ask Time
> Magazine.
> 
>> yet it has been successfully pulled off by Isaacson,
>> Golden, Stein, Rudenstine, and Rosenblatt and the
>> Jewish owners of Time magazine.
> 
> Sieg Heil
> 
>> If the Jews at Time wanted to give the title to an
>> inventor or scientist, then the most obvious choice
>> would have been men like Hilbert, Planck, or
>> Heisenberg. If they wanted to give it to the scientist
>> who most fundamentally changed the landscape of 20th
>> century science, then the obvious choice would be
>> William Shockley. This Nobel Prize winning scientist
>> invented the transistor, which is the basis of all
>> modern electronic devices and computers, everything
>>from modern cars and telephones, VCRs and watches, to
>> the amazing computers which have allowed
>> incomprehensible advances in all fields of science.
> 
> Which they felt (and rightly so, in my humble opinion) was secondary to
> the best blueprint we have so far of the universe.
> 
>> Without the transistor, all forms of science today
>> would be basically in the same place that they were in
>> the late 1940s.
> 
> Rhetoric.
> 
>> However, the Jews cannot allow the due credit to go to
>> William Shockley because he spent the majority of his
>> scientific career demonstrating the genetic and mental
>> inferiority of non-whites and arguing for their
>> sterilization.
> 
> Sieg Heil
> 
>> His scientific, genetic views led the Jews to
>> financially destroy Shockley who founded the first
>> company in the Silicon Valley, his hometown, to
>> develop computer chips.  The Jews hired away his
>> entire staff and used them to start Fairchild
>> semiconductor, the company that today is known as
>> Intel.
> 
> What the hell does this have to do with Einstein?
> 
>> No the Jews could not let any of the truly great
>> geniuses of our time be recognized,
> 
> They *did* recognize one of the truly great geniuses of our time: his
> name was Einstein.
> 
>> not the anti-Semite Henry Ford, not the great German
>> scientists who helped the National Socialists in
>> Germany,
> 
> Such as?
> 
>> not Charles Lindbergh, who was sympathetic to
>> National Socialist causes, and certainly not William
>> Shockley, one of  the most brilliant physicists and
>> geneticists of our time.  Instead, the Jews propped up
>> the Zionist, Communist Albert Einstein
> 
> Einstein was not a communist.  He supported one's right to be a
> communist.  There's a difference.
> 
>> who hated everything white.
> 
> Um, Einstein *was* white.  Are you trying to claim that he was full of
> self-loathing?
> 
>> After World War II, Einstein demonstrated his hatred
>> of the White Race and of the Germans in particular in
>> the following statements. He was asked what he thought
>> about Germany and about re-educating the Germans after
>> the war and said,
>>
>> "The nation has been on the decline mentally and
>> morally since 1870...Behind the Nazi party stands the
>> German people, who elected Hitler after he had in his
>> book and in his speeches made his shameful intentions
>> clear beyond the possibility of misunderstanding. ...
>> The Germans can be killed or constrained after the
>> war, but they cannot be re-educated to a democratic
>> way of thinking and acting..."
>>
>> Einstein here is advocating the murder of Germans,
> 
> I have only been able to find the first sentence in your quote above,
> in an interview Einstein gave in 1935.  The only source I have been
> able to find which includes the part about Germans being killed or
> constrained after the war, or for that matter, anything after your
> first "..." above, is in other copies of this document.
> 
> In fact, I've found absolutely nothing that is independently
> verifiable that Einstein, in fact, said the latter two thirds of this
> quote.
> 
> If you provide me with a link to the complete quote, without your
> selective clippings, as you've already demonstrated that you're
> both capable and willing to clip quotes in such a manner as to
> radically change the context, then I can respond to it.
> 
>> because he feels that this is the only way that they
>> can be kept in check. He is right about one thing, the
>> Germans did knowingly support the cause of National
>> Socialism, but what Einstein is attacking is
>> Christianity, because it was Christianity that led the
>> German people to overwhelmingly support National
>> Socialism.
> 
> Nope.  Even if Einstein said what you say he said (which I have found
> absolutely no corroborating evidence of), Christianity is never
> mentioned in your quotation.  He specifically condemns Nazism.
> 
>> It was the German Christian Faith Movement and the
>> Christian Social Party of men like Karl Lueger that
>> led the German people to their understanding of  Jews.
>> The Jew Daniel Goldhagen has recently shown the
>> Christian basis of National Socialism in his book,
>> Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and
>> the Holocaust, and the book Why The Jews? by Prager
>> and Telushkin similarly proves the Christian origins
>> of what the Jews call 'anti-Semitism.' Einstein
>> understood this and Einstein, like all Jews, hated
>> Christians
> 
> Please provide evidence that all Jews hate Christians.  You must
> conclusively establish that not one Jew exists who does not harbor
> hatred for Christianity.
> 
>> So what Einstein was really advocating was the killing
>> and constraining of all true Christians, not just
>> German Christians.
> 
> Out of curiosity, exactly how do you type when both hands are busy
> stuffing words in Einstein's mouth?
> 
> Ignoring, for the moment, that I have been unable to find any
> corroborating evidence that he ever said anything like what you quote
> him as saying above (and considering how vocal he was as a pacifist, I
> find it unlikely that he did), you've taken what you claim he said,
> and somehow came to the conclusion that he said something completely
> different from what you quote him as saying.
> 
>> This is the true purpose and intent of Zionism and the
>> demagogue Einstein was merely a tool of World Zionism
>> and Jewry towards this end.
>>
>> Zionistic Jews understand that true, primitive
>> Christianity is the mortal enemy of mongrel Judaism.
>> This is why the Jews, like Einstein, hated Nazi
>> Germany so much,
> 
> Frankly, I find it more likely that the Jews hated Nazi Germany because
> the regime had made it its mission to exterminate them.  But I'm just
> guessing.
> 
>> for National Socialist Germany advocated primitive,
>> positive Christianity in the 24th point of its Party
>> Platform.
> 
> And more rhetoric.
> 
> In short, the author of this piece had no understanding of the way
> science works.  By his logic, no biologist has ever written an
> unplagiarized paper because they involve cells, a theory they did not
> advance.  No mathematician has ever published an unplagiarized paper,
> because the basic building blocks; addition, subtraction,
> multiplication and division; have been available for centuries.  No
> physicist since Newton has ever written a paper on Mechanics...
> 
> In fact, if you follow this through to conclusion, there has never been
> any original discovery in science, because the very methodology, the
> scientific method, was established in ancient Greece.  Exactly who came
> up with it is somewhat open to debate, but if the author's right,
> we're all plagiarizing him or her.
> 
> Science, by its very nature is built upon the accomplishments of
> others.  The average human lifetime being as short as it is, we'd
> never get anywhere if it wasn't.  Einstein was no different.  His
> theories were based upon the discoveries being made at the time, but
> that does not invalidate them, on the contrary, it strengthens them,
> for they were the first to truly explain the incomprehensible results
> with a single, central insight.
> 
> --Drew
> 
> 
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:35 EDT 2007
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mragland41@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 30, 10:53 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> mraglan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Separation from the Family
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>>> Shattered Life
>>> by
>>>   Bloeme Evers-Emden, Ph.D.
>>> Among the many terrible measures the Nazis took against the Jews, the
>>> worst consequence was the disintegration of the family, especially the
>>> separation of children from their parents.
>> (Some of the crap snipped)
>> You're posting too much crap guy!
>> Joe Kennedy said:
>> "Jews brought upon them self and deserved the treatment from the Germans."
>>
>> Why don't you search about the "WHY", rather than than what happened.
>> Any way after 60 years of WW2, every thing is blown out of proportions
>> in this Jew controlled money world.
>> JS
> 
> What "in the article" do you think was blown out of context? Compared
> to
> reading a book it is not long. Take 10 minutes to read at most. If I
> recall
> the article is from the ADL. Of course, automatically because it is a
> Jewish source. Let me ask something; do you think there is anything
> authentic about the Jews and their culture? Artifacts, architecture,
> medicine, science, etc. Do they have their own unique culture? If so,
> that would refute their being totally parasites on the countries they
> reside.
> 
> Ragland
> 

I told you idiot, search for the "WHY"!
You posting here sentimental BS, from some Jewish website.
9 million Germans died in the war, how many  children, parents killed, 
families torn apart.
War wasn't about the Jews, keep it in your mined.
Here in the US and other western cultures media is owned and run by
Jews, so any Jewish suffering during the war is blown out of proportion 
exponentially.
Some turns out to be lies.
JS




From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:35 EDT 2007
Article: 1202863 of alt.revisionism
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I think $20 is too much for them!
JS


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070731/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_holocaust_survivors&printer=1;_ylt=Aqtbu7e9WtqufIaefjx59wwUewgF

By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press WriterTue Jul 31, 4:34 PM ET

An Israeli government offer of a new $20 monthly stipend for Holocaust 
survivors provoked outrage Tuesday, with survivors charging the meager 
allowance will do nothing to make up for years of neglect of the 240,000 
Israelis who lived through Nazi horrors.

Survivors have long claimed that European countries treat them far 
better than Israel, where many elderly survivors live in poverty. Prime 
Minister Ehud Olmert's announcement of the new allowance did nothing to 
change that impression. One survivor called the offer "absurd and 
insulting."

Six million Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War II. Hundreds 
of thousands who survived concentration camps came to Israel after the 
war. Many suffered physical or psychological damage from the torture and 
deprivation they suffered at the hands of the Nazis.

Six decades after the war ended, the remaining survivors are elderly, 
and many have been unable to provide for themselves in their final 
years, suffering chronic shortages of money for medical and 
psychological treatment and in some cases even food.

Israel TV showed video of an 85-year-old survivor who said the only meat 
he could afford was chicken necks.

Olmert presented his program as a solution.

"We are correcting a 60-year-old blight," he said. "Holocaust survivors 
living in Israel are entitled to live respectably without reaching a 
situation in which it is beyond their means to enjoy a hot meal."

Beginning next year, the amount allocated for 120,000 needy survivors, 
about half the total number still living in Israel, will be $28 million 
annually, according to Olmert's statement.

But that works out to an average of just $20 a month for each survivor.

"Of course the survivors cannot accept such an offer," said Dubby Arbel, 
chairman of the Foundation for the Benefit of Holocaust Survivors in 
Israel. Arbel said about 65,000 survivors are in acute need of 
assistance, but his foundation can provide for only half of them.

Many survivors were outraged. "This doesn't solve anything," said 
survivor Avraham Roet, 79. "The government doesn't understand the 
significance of the Holocaust and what horrors the survivors went 
through. If they did, they wouldn't propose this absurd and insulting 
plan," he told The Associated Press.

The new payment is in addition to government support already given to 
survivors, including those deemed physically or psychologically 
handicapped, and regular pension payments of about $487 a month.

Survivors groups charged — in what was meant to be an especially painful 
dig at the Israeli government — that survivors are treated better in 
Germany.

"We know what the conditions of the Holocaust survivors are in Holland, 
France, Germany and Poland. They are much better than in Israel," Noah 
Frug, chairman of a consortium of Holocaust survivors' organizations and 
a survivor himself, told Israel Radio.

Hillary Kessler-Godin, spokeswoman for Conference on Jewish Material 
Claims Against Germany, said Germany still pays monthly pensions to 
80,000 survivors around the world, after starting in the 1950s.

"Each survivor's pension can be different depending on their persecution 
history," she told the AP. Other funds have paid out billions of dollars 
to various categories of Nazi victims.

Roet said the average stipend for survivors in Holland, where he was 
born, is between $2,740 and $4,110 a month.

Arbel urged Olmert to raise the allowance "for the sake of Jewish 
identity and Zionist identity, and so that we can all tell our 
grandchildren that we took care of the Holocaust survivors."

"For 42 years I received nothing from the state," survivor Kathleen 
Schwartz, 71, told the newspaper Haaretz. "This grant has arrived too 
late for thousands of survivors. Time is working against us."

Critics maintain that more of the nearly $80 billion in reparations 
Israel has received in compensation from Germany should have gone to the 
survivors. A large percentage of the money, which was paid beginning in 
the 1950s as Israelis struggled to build their fledgling state, went to 
the military and for infrastructure.


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Little Israel getting 30 billions, wow????
It's like the total GNP of a small country!
JS

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070729085414.9od3v5wi&show_article=1&cat=0

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said on Sunday that the United States 
has agreed a 25 percent increase in its military and defence aid to 
Israel, to 30 billion dollars in the next 10 years.

"In my last meeting with the president of the United States, we agreed 
that the aid would stand at 30 billion dollars over the next 10 years, 
meaning over three billion dollars a year, starting next year," he said 
at the start of his weekly cabinet meeting.

"This is an increase of over 25 percent in the military and defence aid 
of the United States to Israel," he added.

Olmert described the new package as a considerable improvement and a 
very important element for the security of Israel. Current US defence 
aid to Israel stands at 2.4 billion dollars a year.


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mragland41@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 31, 5:35 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> I think $20 is too much for them!
>> JS
> 
> 
> Ragland: Of course you do JS. What is nevertheless remarkable is the
> state of Israel is willing to
> pay them a stipend at all. After all, it was the Nazi Germans who
> inflicted the psychological
> and physical damage to survivors. Still think the Holocaust didn't
> happen and Israeli government
> is spending millions of dollars on a stipend for these Holocaust
> survivors. Actually, Israeli
> politicians may have come up with the Holocaust survivor stipend idea
> as an attempt to quell
> domestic unrest. Irrespective of the politician's reasoning the fact
> is the Israel government is
> willing to give out a 20 stipend each month to Holocaust survivors.
> This amounts to 28$ annually.
> Some hoax.
> 
> Michael Ragland

Keep on dreaming idiotski!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/DailyExpress_March1933_judeafrontpage.jpg
JS


> 
> 
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070731/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_holocaust_s...
>>
>> By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press WriterTue Jul 31, 4:34 PM ET
>>
>> An Israeli government offer of a new $20 monthly stipend for Holocaust
>> survivors provoked outrage Tuesday, with survivors charging the meager
>> allowance will do nothing to make up for years of neglect of the 240,000
>> Israelis who lived through Nazi horrors.
>>
>> Survivors have long claimed that European countries treat them far
>> better than Israel, where many elderly survivors live in poverty. Prime
>> Minister Ehud Olmert's announcement of the new allowance did nothing to
>> change that impression. One survivor called the offer "absurd and
>> insulting."
>>
>> Six million Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War II. Hundreds
>> of thousands who survived concentration camps came to Israel after the
>> war. Many suffered physical or psychological damage from the torture and
>> deprivation they suffered at the hands of the Nazis.
>>
>> Six decades after the war ended, the remaining survivors are elderly,
>> and many have been unable to provide for themselves in their final
>> years, suffering chronic shortages of money for medical and
>> psychological treatment and in some cases even food.
>>
>> Israel TV showed video of an 85-year-old survivor who said the only meat
>> he could afford was chicken necks.
>>
>> Olmert presented his program as a solution.
>>
>> "We are correcting a 60-year-old blight," he said. "Holocaust survivors
>> living in Israel are entitled to live respectably without reaching a
>> situation in which it is beyond their means to enjoy a hot meal."
>>
>> Beginning next year, the amount allocated for 120,000 needy survivors,
>> about half the total number still living in Israel, will be $28 million
>> annually, according to Olmert's statement.
>>
>> But that works out to an average of just $20 a month for each survivor.
>>
>> "Of course the survivors cannot accept such an offer," said Dubby Arbel,
>> chairman of the Foundation for the Benefit of Holocaust Survivors in
>> Israel. Arbel said about 65,000 survivors are in acute need of
>> assistance, but his foundation can provide for only half of them.
>>
>> Many survivors were outraged. "This doesn't solve anything," said
>> survivor Avraham Roet, 79. "The government doesn't understand the
>> significance of the Holocaust and what horrors the survivors went
>> through. If they did, they wouldn't propose this absurd and insulting
>> plan," he told The Associated Press.
>>
>> The new payment is in addition to government support already given to
>> survivors, including those deemed physically or psychologically
>> handicapped, and regular pension payments of about $487 a month.
>>
>> Survivors groups charged - in what was meant to be an especially painful
>> dig at the Israeli government - that survivors are treated better in
>> Germany.
>>
>> "We know what the conditions of the Holocaust survivors are in Holland,
>> France, Germany and Poland. They are much better than in Israel," Noah
>> Frug, chairman of a consortium of Holocaust survivors' organizations and
>> a survivor himself, told Israel Radio.
>>
>> Hillary Kessler-Godin, spokeswoman for Conference on Jewish Material
>> Claims Against Germany, said Germany still pays monthly pensions to
>> 80,000 survivors around the world, after starting in the 1950s.
>>
>> "Each survivor's pension can be different depending on their persecution
>> history," she told the AP. Other funds have paid out billions of dollars
>> to various categories of Nazi victims.
>>
>> Roet said the average stipend for survivors in Holland, where he was
>> born, is between $2,740 and $4,110 a month.
>>
>> Arbel urged Olmert to raise the allowance "for the sake of Jewish
>> identity and Zionist identity, and so that we can all tell our
>> grandchildren that we took care of the Holocaust survivors."
>>
>> "For 42 years I received nothing from the state," survivor Kathleen
>> Schwartz, 71, told the newspaper Haaretz. "This grant has arrived too
>> late for thousands of survivors. Time is working against us."
>>
>> Critics maintain that more of the nearly $80 billion in reparations
>> Israel has received in compensation from Germany should have gone to the
>> survivors. A large percentage of the money, which was paid beginning in
>> the 1950s as Israelis struggled to build their fledgling state, went to
>> the military and for infrastructure.
> 
> 


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:37 EDT 2007
Article: 1202908 of alt.revisionism
Xref: sn-us alt.revisionism:1202908 hun.politika:152561
Path: sn-us!sn-feed-sjc-01!sn-xt-sjc-10!sn-xt-sjc-07!sn-xt-sjc-12!supernews.com!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:06:46 -0700
From: Protagonist 
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Subject: Re: Holocaust survivors blast $20 stipend (o:
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mragland41@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 31, 7:01 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>> mraglan...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Jul 31, 5:35 pm, Protagonist  wrote:
>>>> I think $20 is too much for them!
>>>> JS
>>> Ragland: Of course you do JS. What is nevertheless remarkable is the
>>> state of Israel is willing to
>>> pay them a stipend at all. After all, it was the Nazi Germans who
>>> inflicted the psychological
>>> and physical damage to survivors. Still think the Holocaust didn't
>>> happen and Israeli government
>>> is spending millions of dollars on a stipend for these Holocaust
>>> survivors. Actually, Israeli
>>> politicians may have come up with the Holocaust survivor stipend idea
>>> as an attempt to quell
>>> domestic unrest. Irrespective of the politician's reasoning the fact
>>> is the Israel government is
>>> willing to give out a 20 stipend each month to Holocaust survivors.
>>> This amounts to 28$ annually.
>>> Some hoax.
>>> Michael Ragland
>> Keep on dreaming idiotski!http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/09/DailyExpress_March1933_...
>> JS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070731/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_holocaust_s...
>>>> By LAURIE COPANS, Associated Press WriterTue Jul 31, 4:34 PM ET
>>>> An Israeli government offer of a new $20 monthly stipend for Holocaust
>>>> survivors provoked outrage Tuesday, with survivors charging the meager
>>>> allowance will do nothing to make up for years of neglect of the 240,000
>>>> Israelis who lived through Nazi horrors.
>>>> Survivors have long claimed that European countries treat them far
>>>> better than Israel, where many elderly survivors live in poverty. Prime
>>>> Minister Ehud Olmert's announcement of the new allowance did nothing to
>>>> change that impression. One survivor called the offer "absurd and
>>>> insulting."
>>>> Six million Jews were killed by the Nazis during World War II. Hundreds
>>>> of thousands who survived concentration camps came to Israel after the
>>>> war. Many suffered physical or psychological damage from the torture and
>>>> deprivation they suffered at the hands of the Nazis.
>>>> Six decades after the war ended, the remaining survivors are elderly,
>>>> and many have been unable to provide for themselves in their final
>>>> years, suffering chronic shortages of money for medical and
>>>> psychological treatment and in some cases even food.
>>>> Israel TV showed video of an 85-year-old survivor who said the only meat
>>>> he could afford was chicken necks.
>>>> Olmert presented his program as a solution.
>>>> "We are correcting a 60-year-old blight," he said. "Holocaust survivors
>>>> living in Israel are entitled to live respectably without reaching a
>>>> situation in which it is beyond their means to enjoy a hot meal."
>>>> Beginning next year, the amount allocated for 120,000 needy survivors,
>>>> about half the total number still living in Israel, will be $28 million
>>>> annually, according to Olmert's statement.
>>>> But that works out to an average of just $20 a month for each survivor.
>>>> "Of course the survivors cannot accept such an offer," said Dubby Arbel,
>>>> chairman of the Foundation for the Benefit of Holocaust Survivors in
>>>> Israel. Arbel said about 65,000 survivors are in acute need of
>>>> assistance, but his foundation can provide for only half of them.
>>>> Many survivors were outraged. "This doesn't solve anything," said
>>>> survivor Avraham Roet, 79. "The government doesn't understand the
>>>> significance of the Holocaust and what horrors the survivors went
>>>> through. If they did, they wouldn't propose this absurd and insulting
>>>> plan," he told The Associated Press.
>>>> The new payment is in addition to government support already given to
>>>> survivors, including those deemed physically or psychologically
>>>> handicapped, and regular pension payments of about $487 a month.
>>>> Survivors groups charged - in what was meant to be an especially painful
>>>> dig at the Israeli government - that survivors are treated better in
>>>> Germany.
>>>> "We know what the conditions of the Holocaust survivors are in Holland,
>>>> France, Germany and Poland. They are much better than in Israel," Noah
>>>> Frug, chairman of a consortium of Holocaust survivors' organizations and
>>>> a survivor himself, told Israel Radio.
>>>> Hillary Kessler-Godin, spokeswoman for Conference on Jewish Material
>>>> Claims Against Germany, said Germany still pays monthly pensions to
>>>> 80,000 survivors around the world, after starting in the 1950s.
>>>> "Each survivor's pension can be different depending on their persecution
>>>> history," she told the AP. Other funds have paid out billions of dollars
>>>> to various categories of Nazi victims.
>>>> Roet said the average stipend for survivors in Holland, where he was
>>>> born, is between $2,740 and $4,110 a month.
>>>> Arbel urged Olmert to raise the allowance "for the sake of Jewish
>>>> identity and Zionist identity, and so that we can all tell our
>>>> grandchildren that we took care of the Holocaust survivors."
>>>> "For 42 years I received nothing from the state," survivor Kathleen
>>>> Schwartz, 71, told the newspaper Haaretz. "This grant has arrived too
>>>> late for thousands of survivors. Time is working against us."
>>>> Critics maintain that more of the nearly $80 billion in reparations
>>>> Israel has received in compensation from Germany should have gone to the
>>>> survivors. A large percentage of the money, which was paid beginning in
>>>> the 1950s as Israelis struggled to build their fledgling state, went to
>>>> the military and for infrastructure.- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> 
> Ragland: I don't get it? Assuming the newspaper article is genuine all
> it is saying is how
> Jews around the world want to declare war on Germany for its
> antisemitic policies. Jews
> in Nazi Germany were certainly in no position to put up a fight and
> neither were later
> European Jews when Hitler started WWII. I zoomed in on the newspaper
> but it didn't
> tell me how the Jews were going to declare war on Nazi Germany; was it
> a call for
> an international boycott? If so, that surely didn't work. Businesses
> like Ford and IBM
> actually collaborated with Nazi Germany. What's your hang up man?
> 
> Michael Ragland
> 

Look it the date and compare it to the date when Hitler came to power, 
in January 30 of 1933.
"On January 30, 1933, Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor"
Hitler had no racial policies until the fall of 33'.
Jews all ready declared economical war on Germany!
JS



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turan*@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:35:31 -0700, Protagonist 
> wrote:
> 
>> I think $20 is too much for them! 
> 
> x-posting butthole nazis scram!
> 

May be you should open up a Soviet style soup kitchen for them on $20!
You're very good it that!
JS


From szaki10@comcast.net Sun Sep  2 14:57:38 EDT 2007
Article: 1202916 of alt.revisionism
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turan*@shaw.ca wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:08:56 -0700, Protagonist 
> wrote:
> 
>> May be you should open up a Soviet style soup kitchen for them on $20!
> 
> there were no "Soviet style soup kitchen"-s

Nooo? Than what?
> 
> all people had jobs and workers cooked their own cabbage suppe

Even than, you made some one else cook it for you!
> 
> and this is not that one can say about you
> 
>> You're very good it that!
> 
> say, you have to prove it again and again,
> and over and over what an idiot nazi you are?

Bla-bla!
JS




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