From cswiger@westco.net Thu Dec 26 10:07:52 PST 1996
Article: 93004 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!news-out.internetmci.com!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-10.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german,alt.gif-agreement
Subject: Re: The Final Solution or just another whining Nazi?
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 02:23:27 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 79
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: <32c1c97d.357702831@news.dmsc.net>
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <32bd757c.7408284@193.12.69.3>  <01bbf0ae$45ef3160$22b0f1ce@cswiger> <59nu11$1j1u$1@news.gate.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.22
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:221969 comp.org.eff.talk:72724 soc.culture.german:93004 alt.gif-agreement:1526

Rev. Gypsy:


>Ah but wasn't Germany originally a part of the Holy Roman Empire and a
>vassal of the Roman Empire before that? Or even before that it was shared
>by a group of rather nasty smelling tribes. How far back are we gonna go
>in this ridiculous claim of who owned what?

This is a worthwhile point you've made here. Certainly the argument
could go on and on. But, the Treaty of Versailles created a division
between the German people in an area known as the Polish Corridor.
Adolf Hitler simply wanted to reunite the German people in that region
with the Third Reich which is what they desired. His conquest was not
one of wealth, minerals, etc. It was for the unification of German
people as defined by the NSDAP.


CS>: And wasn't that
CS>: area inhabited by ethnic Germans? 


>And your point is? Britain was originally an area inhabited by Celts, but
>I doubt that you'd say that this entitles the Celts to rule the isles with
>an iron hand for a thousand years (but then, knowing a pin head like you,
>you probably would). Just being there does not a mandate make.

You're talking about "tribal" conflicts, not racial ones. Besides,
Celts include Britons and Gauls.

CS>: Also, what's this about a "holocaust?"

>Reality, just perhaps? But then you live in your own little private world,
>then don't you? Be sure and take your medication before nodding off,
>Herr Scheisskoph.

Reality? I don't think so. Its a PERCEPTION. Reality tells us things
like even state-of-the art crematoria take 90 minutes to cremate a
corpse at temperatures hundreds of degrees hotter than those available
in circa 1940. But, the PERCEPTION is that the Germans could somehow
cremate bodies at ten times that rate! 

>So we should just ignore the testimony of thousands of eye witnesses,
>including those G.I.'s (who according to you were probably all Jewish,
>right?) who saw the ovens, gas chambers and emaciated bodies? Or even
>those POW's from all allied nations who had the distinct misfortune of
>being stuck in those same camps irrespective of their religion? 

"Eyewitness" testimony is just that. And, in a court of law, it is the
most UNreliable. Most of the "incriminating evidence" stems from the
famed "War Refugee Board Report" which is full of inconsistencies and
contradictions. Not only that, the two "eyewitnesses", Verba and
Wetzler, were incamped JEWS who surely didn't have any particular ax
to grind now did they? 

There were indeed ovens at the camps. They were used to cremate the
dead. And, yes, there were a lot of emaciated bodies strewn about at
the end of the war. You can thank the old JEW Henry Morgenthau for
that condition. When you attempt to raze a nation to the ground, with
saturation bombing, you cut off a lot of supply routes. Routes which
supply food and medical supplies. No one has ever stepped forward to
demonstrate just how any of these gas chambers operated. And don't
EVEN try to suggest that pharmacist Pressac (who I think dipped into
his personal stock to excess). He has been ripped to shreds with each
revision of his original. More often you get testimony like this from
the Jew Eugene Aroneanu:

 "800 or 900 meters from the spot where the ovens are located, the
prisoners climb into small wagons that run on rails. In Auschwitz,
they are of different sizes, with a capacity of 10 to 15 people. As
soon as it is loaded, the wagon is set in motion at full speed down
the sloping corridor. At the end of the corridor is a wall: Behind it
is the entrance to the oven. When the wagon strikes the wall, the
wagon tilts over, and hurls its load of living human beings into the
oven. It is followed by another wagon with another group, and so on."

Eyewitness account indeed!! How gullible are we to be? 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Fri Dec 27 12:24:33 PST 1996
Article: 93067 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Holocaust Nonesense
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:30:09 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 79
Message-ID: <32c33489.450656808@news.dmsc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.27
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Rev. Gypsy:


>Ah but wasn't Germany originally a part of the Holy Roman Empire and a
>vassal of the Roman Empire before that? Or even before that it was shared
>by a group of rather nasty smelling tribes. How far back are we gonna go
>in this ridiculous claim of who owned what?

This is a worthwhile point you've made here. Certainly the argument
could go on and on. But, the Treaty of Versailles created a division
between the German people in an area known as the Polish Corridor.
Adolf Hitler simply wanted to reunite the German people in that region
with the Third Reich which is what they desired. His conquest was not
one of wealth, minerals, etc. It was for the unification of German
people as defined by the NSDAP.


CS>: And wasn't that
CS>: area inhabited by ethnic Germans? 


>And your point is? Britain was originally an area inhabited by Celts, but
>I doubt that you'd say that this entitles the Celts to rule the isles with
>an iron hand for a thousand years (but then, knowing a pin head like you,
>you probably would). Just being there does not a mandate make.

You're talking about "tribal" conflicts, not racial ones. Besides,
Celts include Britons and Gauls.

CS>: Also, what's this about a "holocaust?"

>Reality, just perhaps? But then you live in your own little private world,
>then don't you? Be sure and take your medication before nodding off,
>Herr Scheisskoph.

Reality? I don't think so. Its a PERCEPTION. Reality tells us things
like even state-of-the art crematoria take 90 minutes to cremate a
corpse at temperatures hundreds of degrees hotter than those available
in circa 1940. But, the PERCEPTION is that the Germans could somehow
cremate bodies at ten times that rate! 

>So we should just ignore the testimony of thousands of eye witnesses,
>including those G.I.'s (who according to you were probably all Jewish,
>right?) who saw the ovens, gas chambers and emaciated bodies? Or even
>those POW's from all allied nations who had the distinct misfortune of
>being stuck in those same camps irrespective of their religion? 

"Eyewitness" testimony is just that. And, in a court of law, it is the
most UNreliable. Most of the "incriminating evidence" stems from the
famed "War Refugee Board Report" which is full of inconsistencies and
contradictions. Not only that, the two "eyewitnesses", Verba and
Wetzler, were incamped JEWS who surely didn't have any particular ax
to grind now did they? 

There were indeed ovens at the camps. They were used to cremate the
dead. And, yes, there were a lot of emaciated bodies strewn about at
the end of the war. You can thank the old JEW Henry Morgenthau for
that condition. When you attempt to raze a nation to the ground, with
saturation bombing, you cut off a lot of supply routes. Routes which
supply food and medical supplies. No one has ever stepped forward to
demonstrate just how any of these gas chambers operated. And don't
EVEN try to suggest that pharmacist Pressac (who I think dipped into
his personal stock to excess). He has been ripped to shreds with each
revision of his original. More often you get testimony like this from
the Jew Eugene Aroneanu:

 "800 or 900 meters from the spot where the ovens are located, the
prisoners climb into small wagons that run on rails. In Auschwitz,
they are of different sizes, with a capacity of 10 to 15 people. As
soon as it is loaded, the wagon is set in motion at full speed down
the sloping corridor. At the end of the corridor is a wall: Behind it
is the entrance to the oven. When the wagon strikes the wall, the
wagon tilts over, and hurls its load of living human beings into the
oven. It is followed by another wagon with another group, and so on."

Eyewitness account indeed!! How gullible are we to be? 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Fri Dec 27 12:24:34 PST 1996
Article: 93072 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!agate!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.enteract.com!insync!eit.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: More Jewish Lies
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 02:22:52 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <32c327c4.447387270@news.dmsc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.27
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

As the Holocaust is rapidly being exposed, for the Jewish lie that it
is, some might wonder just how such a seemingly well anchored edifice
can come crashing down. Most Holocaust mythologists refer incessantly
to the insurmountable amount of TESTIMONY. I find it appropriate to
share with you some of this "testimony"; similar testimony that sent
many fine, respectable German officers to prison or death.

Sigismund Bendel, who claims to have belonged to the Sonderkommando at
Birkenau, reports on the cremation of gassing victims beside
crematorium 4:

"Thick, black smoke ascends from the pits. It all happens so quickly
and is so unimaginable that I think I am dreaming.......An hour later
everything is back to normal. The men take the ashes out of the pits
and make a pile. Another transport is brought to crematorium IV."

Oh aren't those Germans efficient! Incinerating corpses in OPEN PITS,
removing the ashes and making a pile all in about an hour! Telephone
your local crematory and ask then how long it takes to cremate a
single body. Don't even include the time necessary to pulverize the
bones. You'll find out it takes about an hour and one half utilizing a
gas fired chamber taht operates at many hundreds of degrees hotter
than an OPEN PIT. 

Here's more!:

Czech witness, Filip Muller, describes the incineration pits and the
process near crematorium IV:

"The 120-foot-long, 18-to-24-foot-wide, 7-to-8-foot-deep pits had
indentations at one end to which the human fat ran off. The prisoners
had to pour this fat over bodies so that they might burn more easily."

Can you imagine such a design! It  was this kind of absolutely absurd
"testimony" that was given judicial notice at the various trials of
German military personnel. Have you Germans in Germany made your
reparation payments to Israel today!

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Sat Dec 28 10:21:27 PST 1996
Article: 93130 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: More Swiger Lies
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:54:04 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <32c4a7c9.545711851@news.dmsc.net>
References: <32c327c4.447387270@news.dmsc.net> <5a1bmq$15s@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.25
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Dear Mr. McVay:

>What "Jewish lie" has been "exposed," Mr. Swiger? As anyone
>perusing your archived material here
>(ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g) quickly
>discovers, you have never been successful at defending _your_ lies
>with regard to the Holocaust, let alone establishing anyone elses.

Sounds as though this is merely your opinion, Mr. McVay. Actually, we
who are now expounding the truth, surrounding the alleged Holocaust,
have made tremendous gains. No doubt we'll continue to encounter
mythologists, like yourself, who, for whatever motivation, persist in
the propagation of the Holocaust lie. I've dropped into the Nizkor
site and reviewed those chosen files myself. Actually, I think they're
pretty good. 

>Burning pits were used, Mr. Swiger - get used to it. After you
>have done so, you may wish to explain how the time required to
>cremate a single corpse in a modern furnace has any relevance to
>the Holocaust. Take your time - we'll wait.

How asinine. I'm fully aware that burning pits were used to dispose of
the deceased. Something had to be done to curb the typhus epidemics
that were rampant at that time. Ken, did the allies not also use
outdoor buring installations after their murderous attack on Dresden?
And for what reason? You simply cannot leave decomposing bodies laying
around for sanitary reasons. The particular spin involved here, by
Holocaust mythologists, is that the instances of the Germans buring
corpses in pits at the labor camps was some sort of a program of
genocide. Its easy for Holocaust theorists to take a situation like
this and mold it into a legendary event. 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Sat Dec 28 10:21:28 PST 1996
Article: 93133 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!info.ucla.edu!nnrp.info.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Swiger's Holocaust Nonesense
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:54:38 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <32c4a7f5.545755125@news.dmsc.net>
References: <32c33489.450656808@news.dmsc.net> <5a1cue$1l6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.25
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Hi Ken:

>Hitler planned the systematic rape of Eastern Europe, and his
>concept of "living space" played a large roll. Hitler was quite
>clear about his plans; if you are interested in learning the truth
>(Mr. Swiger's past performance suggests he is not, but there are,
>after all, others here who are), you might wish to peruse
>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-09-aggression-01-07.html
>as a good starting point.

Look, I agree that Hitler believed in the sword making way for the
plow. And, I agree with him 100%. So I don't pull any punches when it
comes to my politics. We could debate forever on what is "right" and
what is "wrong". I could certainly draw parallels between what is
going on in Israel with the Palestinians and what Hitler wrote about
in Mein Kampf.  It is a pointless argument based upon one's own
definition of abstracts. There is no reality in "right" and "wrong",
but there is reality as to whether a "Hollywood style" Holocaust
occurred. The reality is: It did not. For what its worth, I recognized
the Holocaust as a myth BEFORE becoming a National Socialist.

You condemn Hitler, but Theodore Herzel certainly had no reservations
about his plans now did he? Sorry for the parallel. 

>Poor Mr. Swiger... he has yet to grasp the concepts involved, and
>continues to hope that he can convince someone - anyone - that
>modern single-body cremation statistics have anything at all to do
>with Nazi-era crematoria statistics from places like
>Auschwitz-Birkenau. The perception, Mr. Swiger, is that you are
>trying a bit of tired old Nazi slight of hand.

Is that what it is? "......old Nazi slight of hand" or priciples of
engineering? And, it has a lot to do with the ALLEGATIONS that the
German National Socialists somehow defied the laws of physics. People
like you think if you torture enough individuals and get confessions,
pile up reams of forged documents and have sentences handed down from
kangaroo courts and star chambers you can change gravitational
acceleration from 9.806 m/s2 to 25 m/s2. It just doesn't work that
way, Ken. Science catches up with you in the end......And the end is
near for your Holocaust fiction.

>The history of the Holocaust, as Mr. Swiger knows (but would
>rather you did not know) is certainly not based upon eyewitness
>testimony. It is, however, based - like all historical events -
>upon the convergeance of evidence. In this case, most of the
>evidence has been provided by the Nazis themselves, as Mr. Swiger
>most certainly knows, since he's been trying to peddle his
>nonsense for some time now. German trials, Nazi documentation is
>copious to the point where it is probably fair to say it may well
>be another century before it has all been sifted by scholars
>seeking more information.

I want you read what George A. McDonough had to say about the trials
in post WW2 Germany. McDonough served BOTH as a prosecutor and a
defense counsel.

"...........Hearsay evidence was admitted indiscriminately and sworn
statements of witnesses were admissible regardless of whether anybody
knew the person who made the statement or the individual who took the
statement. If a prosecutor considered a statement of a witness to be
more damaging than the witness' oral testimony in court he would
advise the witness to go back to his home, submit the statement as
evidence, and any objection by defense counsel would be promptly
overruled."

Certainly this is out of line with Western jurisprudence. But, I'm not
here to cry about the injustices doled out at the "trials." Most
everyone now knows they were a total farce and disgrace. You assert
yourself with the statement that " most of the evidence has been
provided by the Nazis themselves,...." Well, if judicium semper pro
veritate accipitur applies in all instances, then the Puritains in
early America PROVED that there were witches,..... and humans
copulated with the Devil! Certainly so since the theocracy had plenty
of testimony, witnesses and confessions. My appeal is to common sense.
Particularly with the Germans today who have been lied to and abused
by Jewish Holocaust mythologists. Wahrheit Mact Frei!

>400,000 pages of captured Nazi documentation has recently come to
>light in Hungary, for instance, which documents the deportation of
>Hungarian Jewry... no eyewitness testimony needed, as the SS did a
>fine job on their own of documenting their crimes.

A peurile attempt at euphemism. How many times do we have to clobber
this one into the ground, Ken? The NSDAP had every intention of
"exterminating" Jewry within the the Reich. To do this it was
necessary to deport Jews from German territory. But this forced
deportation did not occur until World Jewry declared war on Germany.
Prior to this, International Zionists collaborated with Adolf Hitler
to have the Jews relocate to Palestine. You know all about this but,
for your own personal motives, you won't admit it. 

>Mr. Swiger is, of course, invited to discuss Pressac in
>alt.revisionism, which is the newsgroup he prefers to avoid...
>perhaps that is because Mr. Swiger knows that his brand of
>"history" has been seen there often enough to hold little
>challenge - or interest - for anyone with a mind that works.

Look Ken, you know full well that Pressac did a miserable disservice
to your ilk. The guy has no grasp on mathematics or engineering. He
tried to convince others just what mistakes Vrba and Wetzler made IN
THIER OWN TESTIMONY! The guy is a total moron. I sincerely believe he
dipped into his own pharmacutical stock. Nonetheless, if I want to
discuss him, I'll do it wherever I choose if there are others who are
interested.  

>Nazi account indeed!! How gullible are we to be, Mr. Swiger?

Fact is Ken, the "testimony" I posted is an extreme insult to the
intelligence of most everyone. Its horrendous that such a contorted
fabling would actually be admitted in a court..........even a kangaroo
court. What is absolutely sickening is that German military personnel
were actually imprisoned or executed based upon such idiotic
attestations. 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei



From cswiger@westco.net Mon Dec 30 10:00:40 PST 1996
Article: 90020 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news-penn.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-stock.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 03:54:41 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 105
Message-ID: <32c72e94.26820415@news.dmsc.net>
References:    <3yknoOev18mC065yn@login.dknet.dk> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.29
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Dkeren:

>Me? Just read this group. All "revisionists" here constantly
>lie through their teeth, every day. Nearly all of them are
>blatant Nazis and antisemites; expressions like "kike filth",
>"Jewish scum", etc, are so common here that hardly anyone
>bothers to comment on them anymore.

There seems to be a lot of emotion in alt.revisionism. I've posted
there a time ot two (when I was subscribed to CompuServe) and received
some very nasty E-mail from alt.revisionism participants. I openly
admit my National Socialist position, but I always try to stay with
the facts and not let my emotions get the best of me. This happened a
time or two with me in the fora of CompuServe. One is much better off
to simply stay with the facts.

># If revisionism really was that stupid as you are trying to
># make it, how come that the French and the German government
># and parliament fear it so much that they have taken so drastic
># steps as to have people thrown in jail for expressing
># revisionist views in public.

Ole brings up an excellent point here. Even though the mannerisms of
alt.revisionism aren't the most polite, there are still a lot of
damaging facts being printed there. Countries like France and Germany,
who have demonstrated their commitments to International Jewry, shiver
at the information being exchanged there.

>Nazism was stupid. You agree with this, right? But didn't it
>prove to be very dangerous?

Stupid is a very abstract term. I see National Socialism as a form of
government that is very appealing to intellectuals. National Socialism
is a very scientific oriented political ideology. National Socialism
probably was/is "dangerous" to it's political rivals such as
communism, democracy and Zionism. But, this can also be viewed 180
degrees. 

>Suppose that X is a model citizen. Never did anything bad in
>his life. One day, Y, who hates X, starts publishing all
>over the place that X is a child molester. It is a *stupid*
>claim; he has no evidence whatsoever. But Y is still a
>criminal, right? So, in principle, publishing something
>stupid can be a crime - in the moral sense of the word - right?

Depends on who is defining "morality." For instance, the Jewish Talmud
teaches that a Jew must never testify in behalf of a non-Jew if the
party in opposition be Jewish. This is perfectly moral in Jewish
culture. You seem to subscribe to European values rather that Jewish.
And, when we consider your last paragraph, National Socialist Germany
has suffered exactly what you print here! There was no Jewish
Holocaust yet many German military personnel have been imprisoned or
put to death in lack of all the evidence. It was purely an example of
political might............To the victors go the spoil. 

>Look at what "revisionism" led to. It led to, among other
>things, the Nizkor project. One of the main goals of
>Nizkor is Holocaust documentation, and I am proud of
>having contributed to this goal. Thus, as a direct result
>of "revisionism", a rather large amount of Holocaust
>documentation - texts, photographs, scans of documents,
>recordings - is a few mouse clicks away from millions
>of people. In the past, people would have to go to a
>library and search for it. No more. It's right there
>on your screen. Because of "revisionism", more people
>will know more about the Holocaust. No question about it.

I would certainly expect to see Holocaust mythologists increase their
propaganda efforts as revisionism continues to destroy the Holocaust
legend. The tactic being employed by Nizkor is nothing innovative. In
fact, distribution and presentation of mass disinformation is
responsible for the birth of the Holocaust myth itself. Every
revisoinist and revisionist sympathizer understands this. But, the jig
is up. The Holocaust will eventually be understood by the world's
masses to be a hoax. As a special note here, not all revisionists are
National Socialists like myself. Many are simply demanding that the
truth be understood as concerns the Holocaust myth.

>Is "revisionism" dangerous, potentially? Well, it can
>succeed only if antisemitism succeeds. It is, plain and
>simple, another tool of antisemitism. But all these tools
>are really the same. So, can antisemitism succeed? Of
>course it can, potentially, as can other hate campaigns;
>we are not a better people than we were 50 years ago. The
>only thing we can say is that we are more knowledgeable.
>And that is our hope.

I think you're avoiding the main premise of revisionism and attempting
to short-circuit that premise, (not revisionism),  for personal,
socio-political reasons. Revisionism seeks truth. Revisionism is NOT
responsible for political actions that may occur as a result of
exposing that truth. You call revisionism "another tool of
antisemitism"  and categorize it with "other hate campaigns" which is
totally asinine and paranoid. How delicately you and other Holocaust
mythologists attempt to associate the abstract "hate" with any
organization or movement that is in opposition to your own. Your
success here depends on whether you can shovel off your own definition
of "hate" to others in the legal and political realm. Via emotion
and/or fear, you are trusting that any talk or thought contrary to
accepted Holocaust dogma will be considered "hateful" and, in your
best case, illegal as it is in many countries. It has absolutely
nothing to do with truth.

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Mon Dec 30 10:59:35 PST 1996
Article: 93224 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 02:01:33 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <32c71db6.22502345@news.dmsc.net>
References:  <6k0noOev1eb4065yn@login.dknet.dk>    
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.32
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Ole:

>In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>>
>>And now, you'll ask, if there was a decision to kill all Jews,
>>why did some survive? The answer to that one is simple: the
>>Nazis didn't have enough time to kill all of them.

>Or there was simply no decision to kill them in the first place.
>--
>Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


Of course there was no decision to kill them. There has NEVER been
produced a document that indicates the NSDAP had any intentions of
commiting genocide "Hollywood Holocaust Style" against the Jews. You
can bet the NSDAP had every intention of forcibly expelling them for
the Third Reich, and I don't blame them. But, even the decision to
deport the Jews by force did not occur until International Jewry
declared war on Germany. Prior to this it was an agreement between
Zionists and the National Socialists.

The Wannsee Conference is often referred to as the meeting whereby the
"extermination" program was expounded upon. But, anyone who reads the
document for themselves can easily understand that the NSDAP's plans
amounted to nothing more than relocating Jews to the east for labor
detail. There were, however, special provisions for the elderly, women
and children commonly referred to as Theresienstadt. Now there is a
lot of talk about the "Wannsee Protocol" which was given judicial
notice in the Wilhelmstrasse Trial. Holocaust mythologists, in their
folly and ignorance, assume that a court decision or recognizance of a
particular document somehow validate the same. I'll leave the
following information about the "Wannsee Protocol" to the readers.

"The Wannsee Protocol bears no official imprint, no date, no
signature, and was written with an ordinary typewriter on small sheets
of paper. And, the "original" is not availble for examination. Anyone
could have produced this "protocol". 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Mon Dec 30 17:16:54 PST 1996
Article: 90041 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Swiger's Holocaust Nonesense
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:52:50 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <32c49178.539997574@news.dmsc.net>
References: <32c33489.450656808@news.dmsc.net> <5a1cue$1l6@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.25
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Hi Ken:

>Hitler planned the systematic rape of Eastern Europe, and his
>concept of "living space" played a large roll. Hitler was quite
>clear about his plans; if you are interested in learning the truth
>(Mr. Swiger's past performance suggests he is not, but there are,
>after all, others here who are), you might wish to peruse
>http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-01/nca-01-09-aggression-01-07.html
>as a good starting point.

Look, I agree that Hitler believed in the sword making way for the
plow. And, I agree with him 100%. So I don't pull any punches when it
comes to my politics. We could debate forever on what is "right" and
what is "wrong". I could certainly draw parallels between what is
going on in Israel with the Palestinians and what Hitler wrote about
in Mein Kampf.  It is a pointless argument based upon one's own
definition of abstracts. There is no reality in "right" and "wrong",
but there is reality as to whether a "Hollywood style" Holocaust
occurred. The reality is: It did not. For what its worth, I recognized
the Holocaust as a myth BEFORE becoming a National Socialist.

You condemn Hitler, but Theodore Herzel certainly had no reservations
about his plans now did he? Sorry for the parallel. 

>Poor Mr. Swiger... he has yet to grasp the concepts involved, and
>continues to hope that he can convince someone - anyone - that
>modern single-body cremation statistics have anything at all to do
>with Nazi-era crematoria statistics from places like
>Auschwitz-Birkenau. The perception, Mr. Swiger, is that you are
>trying a bit of tired old Nazi slight of hand.

Is that what it is? "......old Nazi slight of hand" or priciples of
engineering? And, it has a lot to do with the ALLEGATIONS that the
German National Socialists somehow defied the laws of physics. People
like you think if you torture enough individuals and get confessions,
pile up reams of forged documents and have sentences handed down from
kangaroo courts and star chambers you can change gravitational
acceleration from 9.806 m/s2 to 25 m/s2. It just doesn't work that
way, Ken. Science catches up with you in the end......And the end is
near for your Holocaust fiction.

>The history of the Holocaust, as Mr. Swiger knows (but would
>rather you did not know) is certainly not based upon eyewitness
>testimony. It is, however, based - like all historical events -
>upon the convergeance of evidence. In this case, most of the
>evidence has been provided by the Nazis themselves, as Mr. Swiger
>most certainly knows, since he's been trying to peddle his
>nonsense for some time now. German trials, Nazi documentation is
>copious to the point where it is probably fair to say it may well
>be another century before it has all been sifted by scholars
>seeking more information.

I want you read what George A. McDonough had to say about the trials
in post WW2 Germany. McDonough served BOTH as a prosecutor and a
defense counsel.

"...........Hearsay evidence was admitted indiscriminately and sworn
statements of witnesses were admissible regardless of whether anybody
knew the person who made the statement or the individual who took the
statement. If a prosecutor considered a statement of a witness to be
more damaging than the witness' oral testimony in court he would
advise the witness to go back to his home, submit the statement as
evidence, and any objection by defense counsel would be promptly
overruled."

Certainly this is out of line with Western jurisprudence. But, I'm not
here to cry about the injustices doled out at the "trials." Most
everyone now knows they were a total farce and disgrace. You assert
yourself with the statement that " most of the evidence has been
provided by the Nazis themselves,...." Well, if judicium semper pro
veritate accipitur applies in all instances, then the Puritains in
early America PROVED that there were witches,..... and humans
copulated with the Devil! Certainly so since the theocracy had plenty
of testimony, witnesses and confessions. My appeal is to common sense.
Particularly with the Germans today who have been lied to and abused
by Jewish Holocaust mythologists. Wahrheit Mact Frei!

>400,000 pages of captured Nazi documentation has recently come to
>light in Hungary, for instance, which documents the deportation of
>Hungarian Jewry... no eyewitness testimony needed, as the SS did a
>fine job on their own of documenting their crimes.

A peurile attempt at euphemism. How many times do we have to clobber
this one into the ground, Ken? The NSDAP had every intention of
"exterminating" Jewry within the the Reich. To do this it was
necessary to deport Jews from German territory. But this forced
deportation did not occur until World Jewry declared war on Germany.
Prior to this, International Zionists collaborated with Adolf Hitler
to have the Jews relocate to Palestine. You know all about this but,
for your own personal motives, you won't admit it. 

>Mr. Swiger is, of course, invited to discuss Pressac in
>alt.revisionism, which is the newsgroup he prefers to avoid...
>perhaps that is because Mr. Swiger knows that his brand of
>"history" has been seen there often enough to hold little
>challenge - or interest - for anyone with a mind that works.

Look Ken, you know full well that Pressac did a miserable disservice
to your ilk. The guy has no grasp on mathematics or engineering. He
tried to convince others just what mistakes Vrba and Wetzler made IN
THIER OWN TESTIMONY! The guy is a total moron. I sincerely believe he
dipped into his own pharmacutical stock. Nonetheless, if I want to
discuss him, I'll do it wherever I choose if there are others who are
interested.  

>Nazi account indeed!! How gullible are we to be, Mr. Swiger?

Fact is Ken, the "testimony" I posted is an extreme insult to the
intelligence of most everyone. Its horrendous that such a contorted
fabling would actually be admitted in a court..........even a kangaroo
court. What is absolutely sickening is that German military personnel
were actually imprisoned or executed based upon such idiotic
attestations. 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei



From cswiger@westco.net Tue Dec 31 09:10:12 PST 1996
Article: 90064 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!eit.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More Swiger Lies
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 04:52:48 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <32c48d8f.538996292@news.dmsc.net>
References: <32c327c4.447387270@news.dmsc.net> <5a1bmq$15s@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.25
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

Dear Mr. McVay:

>What "Jewish lie" has been "exposed," Mr. Swiger? As anyone
>perusing your archived material here
>(ftp.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/swiger.cliff.g) quickly
>discovers, you have never been successful at defending _your_ lies
>with regard to the Holocaust, let alone establishing anyone elses.

Sounds as though this is merely your opinion, Mr. McVay. Actually, we
who are now expounding the truth, surrounding the alleged Holocaust,
have made tremendous gains. No doubt we'll continue to encounter
mythologists, like yourself, who, for whatever motivation, persist in
the propagation of the Holocaust lie. I've dropped into the Nizkor
site and reviewed those chosen files myself. Actually, I think they're
pretty good. 

>Burning pits were used, Mr. Swiger - get used to it. After you
>have done so, you may wish to explain how the time required to
>cremate a single corpse in a modern furnace has any relevance to
>the Holocaust. Take your time - we'll wait.

How asinine. I'm fully aware that burning pits were used to dispose of
the deceased. Something had to be done to curb the typhus epidemics
that were rampant at that time. Ken, did the allies not also use
outdoor buring installations after their murderous attack on Dresden?
And for what reason? You simply cannot leave decomposing bodies laying
around for sanitary reasons. The particular spin involved here, by
Holocaust mythologists, is that the instances of the Germans buring
corpses in pits at the labor camps was some sort of a program of
genocide. Its easy for Holocaust theorists to take a situation like
this and mold it into a legendary event. 

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei


From cswiger@westco.net Tue Dec 31 13:35:14 PST 1996
Article: 93283 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-hub.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.dmsc.net!usenet
From: cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: More Jewish Lies!
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 02:38:42 GMT
Organization: Donna Marie Software & Consulting, Inc.
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <32c87006.109123414@news.dmsc.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.241.176.22
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230

To All:

Perhaps one of the most "incriminating" tidbits of testimonial
evidence against the NSDAP is the War Refugee Board report of November
1944 on Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walter Rosenberg, who later changed his
name to Rudolf Verba, and Alfred Wetzler supposedly escaped from
Birkenau on April 7, 1944 and, along with others, put together a
report about their experiences at Auschwitz-Birkenau. This report of
lies, has , like all other hostlie "eyewitness" testimony directed at
post WW2 Germans, been exposed as a Jewish fraud.

Verba and Wetzler went to great lengths to describe the "gas
chambers", crematoria and the general layout of the "death camp." Now
I think most individuals of European ancestry, with any common
comprehension of Western Jurisprudence, understand that hearsay
evidence IS NOT ADMISSIBLE in criminal prosecutions. Germans today
need to etch into the convolutions of their brain that honorable
German officers and soldiers (perhaps some are your relatives) were
imprisoned and put to death based upon Jewish misinformation like that
of Verba and Wetzler. Even today Germany is constantly reminded of the
"horrific deeds of it's past government" and made to feel shamed by
nearly every mass media outlet. Let's see just what Vrba himself knew
about Auschwitz-Birkenau during a cross examination.

"At the Zundel trial, Vrba confirmed having frequent contacts with
members of the 'Sonderkommando' who were working in the crematoria,
stating that he drew the plan of crematoria II & III in exact
accordance WITH THEIR INFORMATION!" (Emphasis mine). To attorney
Christie's question as to whether the plan was accurate, Vrba
answered:"

"This I cannot say. It was said that as we were not in the large
crematoria, we reconstructed it from messages which we got from
members of the Sonderkommando working in that crematorium, and
therefore, that (was) approximately how it transpired IN OUR MIND
(Emphasis mine), and in our ability to depict WHAT WE HAVE HEARD
(Emphasis mine).

After Vrba finally admitted that neither he nor Wetzler had EVER
(Emphasis mine) entered ANY (Emphasis mine) of the crematoria he
continued:

"Consequently, we had to rely on rough information which we got from
the Sonderkommando who worked inside; and to reproduce a map without
being trained in architechture, from HEARSAY (Emphasis mine)
descriptions of the other eyewitnesses, of course, is not such a
simple thing."

Rough information? Hearsay? I ask you what person (or better yet, what
governments) would ever give any weight to such second and third hand
information IN A CRIMINAL TRIAL!? Well, it doesn't much matter now for
the accused; the damage has already been done. But, every
self-respecting German should be angered over such a turn of events.
Although Germany is currently under the jackboot of Jewish tyranny as
regards freedom speech, this will not last in the face of the truth.

Cliff Swiger
Wahrheit Macht Frei 
Credit for quotes in above to: Carlo Mattogno and the IHR

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor