The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/s/stein.michael/1997/rimland-seems-confused

From Fri Mar  7 15:42:15 EST 1997
Article: 149240 of alt.revisionism
From: (Michael P. Stein)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,
Subject: 970304: More yet on Nizkor's 'mission'
Supersedes: <5fptk1$>
Date: 7 Mar 1997 15:39:49 -0500
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA
Lines: 325
Message-ID: <5fpuel$>
Xref: alt.revisionism:149240

In article (E. Zundel Repost) wrote:

>March 4, 1997
>Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
>Here is a telling follow-up on electronic terrorism involving none other
>than Nizkor.  Be sure to read it carefully - and act on it if you are so

    One wishes that Ms. Rimland had heeded her own advice and read the
Nizkor material _carefully_ before posting her inflammatory and defamatory

>You will remember the massive e-mail attack aimed at our California-based
>server, Web Communications, in mid-December.  For 40 hours straight, an
>automatic mailer fired three words - "Denial of Service" - at the rate of
>200 e-mail messages per second at Webcom - an attack which amounted to a
>staggering 28.8 million letters.
>This electronic bombardment  shut down the Webcom system and crippled 3,000
>websites during the busiest weekend of the Christmas season.  The damage to
>customers of Webcom must have been in the hundreds of thousands if not
>millions of dollars.

    While it is quite possible that the Zundelsite was the target of the
attacker, it is also possible that the target was another website hosted
by Webcom. If any Webcom user ran a site which promotes itself through the
use of "spam"  (unsolicited commercial email and/or inappropriate Usenet
postings), that may have been the reason for the attack.

>This was the second time that Webcom has been so attacked.  The first
>attack came out of Germany via Deutsche Telekom a year ago in response to
>an announced and then hotly denied "debate" with the notorious Holocaust
>Promotion website, Nizkor - a website opposing Revisionist websites on
>grounds that Nizkor's function is to serve the memory of those who died in
>the "Holocaust" whom we are wantonly defaming.

    Ms. Rimland is simply terribly confused here about the technological
facts. The "attack" from Germany was in no way comparable to the SYN flood
attack which prevented _anyone_ from using Webcom.  Deutsche Telekom
programmed its _own_ gateways to reject _incoming_ traffic from Webcom -
non-German users had full access to Webcom, and the Webcom host was
absolutely untouched by anything DT did.  The recent attack on Webcom was
like making many phone calls to someone else's number to disrupt their
ability to communicate with _anyone_; the DT action was like getting
caller ID and programming it to block someone you don't like from calling
_your_ phone.  The first action is illegal, the second one is legal. 

>Now keep in mind as you read the information below that Nizkor issues tax
>deductible receipt via a certain charitable outfit to people who support
>their work.  The outfit that collects donations for Nizkor in Canada is
>called The Zikaron Tolerance and Remembrance Society.  In the United
>States, donations in support of Nizkor are being made payable to San
>Antonio Area Foundation  - Nizkor Fund.  Both Canadian and American donors
>may deduct their contributions from their income taxes.
>You will also recall that while trying to contact Nizkor's head honcho, Ken
>McVay, for a broadcast interview, Ernst was directed to a mail drop to
>several phone message machines.  Personal e-mail sent to Ken McVay was
>answered by none other than B'nai Brith's chief spokesperson on Vancouver
>Island, Harry Abrams.  His telephone was answered by a Rabbi Goldberg.
>Furthermore, McVay is publicly lionized and promoted on the lecture circuit
>by B'nai Brith et al - the folks who like to visit law enforcement quarters
>to regale them "sensitivity training" on how to spot and counteract
>"racists and terrorists."
>We understand that Ken McVay and entourage are giving it their all by
>serving to protect the Holocaust Lobbyists from having to answer some
>justified questions,

    Ms. Rimland understands very little, actually.  The above hysteria is
a paranoid delusion worthy of the people on streetcorners who talk about
the radio messages being beamed into their heads by the CIA. 

>such as:  "Did Six Million Really Die?"  For that,
>they get official kudos from sundry dignitaries and lots of free publicity
>from a beholden media.  Their website URL is frequently listed in articles.
>Ken McVay even got the Order of British Columbia from the Queen of England
>for his work.

    The award is made in the Queen's name, but I don't think she was
actually in attendance.  See

and notice whose signatures are actually at the bottom.  But Ken was doing
this for years before there was any public recognition.

>What seems to have been overlooked until now is the incriminating fact 
>that the allegedly oh so noble folks at Nizkor, who like to seize the
>moral high ground in every argument, store detailed information and
>instructions on how to engage in electronic computer terrorism on their
>websites.   This is tantamount to displaying bomb making instructions on
>militia sites, which Nizkor's friends routinely rail about.

    I would say that what's objected to is not the mere display, but the
display in a context which suggests that the militia site considers the
user of that information to be a good thing.  Many books contain
information on how to make the type of fertilizer and oil explosive used
in Oklahoma City, but nobody is calling for censorship or arrest of the

>This information on the Nizkor website directs people where to find and
>download programs needed to execute devastating e-mail bombings.  This is
>distinctly not an accidental listing because Nizkor submitted it to be
>placed on its own website search engine so that potential electronic
>terrorists would easily be able to find it.

    I am sensitive to the argument that making such information available
increases the possibility that someone previously unaware of it will see
it and misuse it.  Unfortunately, in this case I think Ms. Rimland is
playing the ostrich.  The fact is, this information is easily findable
through AltaVista and other search engines.  My first exposure to the
mailbombing program, ironically, was when I was trying to help a
revisionist who was victimized by it.  I saw the name of the program in
the headers and started searching for it with AltaVista.  The home page of
the program's creator came up as one of the hits.  I read the FAQ.  I was
not amused by what I saw.

    Ms. Rimland however goes far beyond a legitimate and reasonable
criticism about which reasonable people may disagree.  She hysterically
insinuates that the purpose of the information was to promote the use of
such tools against people such as herself.  Neither Jamie McCarthy nor
myself condone such tactics, and in fact we have both offered our
assistance to revisionists who have been targeted by net.abusers. 

    So why was that program mentioned on Nizkor?  Simply because Nizkor
was recently attacked by someone using that same program.  Here is how the
web page starts:

                        Automated Hate
                          "Up Yours"

Some people are just plain lazy, and need the help of automated software
to create and deliver their vitriol. 

The Edmonton, Alberta CONNECT.AB.CA user who sent the following messages
using a package called Up Yours may have violated Section 430 of the
Criminal Code of Canada. The matter is currently under investigation by
the appropriate police agencies.

    Does that sound like Nizkor approves of such things?  Does the
identification of the origin site of the email, coupled with the note that
it is under criminal investigation, sound like Nizkor is suggesting that
people do this?  You see, contrary to the Up Yours FAQ, this is not
_quite_ as untraceable as they make it out to be.  Although the specific
user cannot be identified from the email headers alone, there are
sometimes other ways to find the culprit. 

>There comes a point when the public must be allowed to ask:  "Where does
>B'nai Brith's influence and control over Nizkor begin or end?  Does it
>include an agenda of electronic terrorism against Holocaust Revisionist
>websites or electronic Holocaust Revisionism?

    The public is always allowed to ask. The answer is: it does not.

    The public is also allowed to ask: "Is Ms. Rimland a paranoid who was
too careless to bother to read the full background on why the Up Yours
information was found on Nizkor, or does she have an agenda of conducting
a deliberate and malicious smear campaign via lie-by-omission?" 

>Here is why I ask, in my capacity as the US-based webmaster and editor of
>the material posted on the Zundelsite, including "Did Six Million Really
>Die?"  Immediately after the massive electronic act of terrorism in
>December, I filed a formal complaint with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police
>in Nanaimo, B.C., asking that this matter be investigated as a criminal
>offense.  I sent this letter, which had been carefully prepared with the
>help of an attorney, to a specific police officer, addressing him by name.
>I even sent this letter registered.  I asked for an acknowledgment and
>Now it is  almost three months later.  So far, I have not yet received an
>answer.  RCMP has since been contacted again - still no response.

    Unfortunately, the attack on Webcom was executed in a way which makes
it very hard to catch the perpetrator.

>I will now share the information since obtained with the RCMP as well, as
>well as with my readership.

    How is it that Nizkor's disclosure of the information is sinister, yet
Ms. Rimland's disclosure is innocent?  (See below for some shocking news.)

[excerpt deleted]

>(end of excerpt)
>So here you have a "charitable" organization that takes donations and hands
>out tax deductible receipts, pretending to champion a worthy cause and high
>ideals of truth and justice - and yet has not just the audacity but the
>terrorist mentality to advertise and to promote not only how to hurt a
>dissident with whom they disagree but how to hurt a server  and thousands
>of this server's totally neutral, apolitical customers.

    And now Ms. Rimland has done just the same, since her Zundelgrams are
archived on the Zundelsite!

                     You have reached the Information Page
   Linkname: Zundelsite - ZGram - March 4, 1997

As far as I can tell by reading what she has written here, Ingrid Rimland
is by her own standards an electronic terrorist simply for having put this
information on the Zundelsite as shown by the above URL.  Will she now
turn herself in to the police? 

>That's terrorism.  There are six Nizkor mirror sites.  Their websites are
>promoted in schools as a "legitimate" Holocaust resource by public agencies
>and officials.
>Are these public officials mere dupes, inflicting on their lower ranks
>their brand of political correctness while being fooled by Nizkor's
>electronic warfare experts - or worse?
>Is someone trying to entice and introduce school children to computer
>terrorism - or worse?
>The FBI was, and presumably still is, investigating the massive disruption
>of Webcom's business.  It has already been established that the computers
>at a college in Nanaimo, B.C., the city listed as a PO Box mail drop by
>Nizkor.  played a key function in this crime of electronic terrorism.  It
>would be very strange indeed if this were a coincidence.

    As long as we are in hysterical paranoia mode, shall we consider the
possibility that the attack was actually carried out by someone trying to
frame Nizkor?  If Nizkor has all the evil genius that Ms. Rimland
attributes to it in her smear campaign, don't you think Nanaimo is the
_last_ place it would launch an electronic attack from?

>I think both parents and the public, as well as public officials, have a
>right to a straight answer - not only from Nizkor about what that
>electronic terrorism information, replete with instructions, is doing on
>their website but also from educators and government officials who use,
>promote and champion that website.  Do they condone or even deliberately
>encourage the learning of computer crime via Nizkor's websites and its
>mirror sites to silence political opponents?
>I would strongly encourage my readers to contact Staff Sgt. Ken Smith at
>303 Prideaux Street, Nanaimo, B.C. Canada V9R 2N3.   His phone number is
>250-754-2345 and his fax is 250-753-0946.  It seems that in the new Canada
>even the police needs to be counter-lobbied, since they seem to have been
>either cowed or mentally captured by too much "sensitivity training" while
>closing eyes and ears to real, 20th century electronic  terrorism
>masquerading as protection of the "Holocaust".

    Nizkor neither engages in nor condones such actions.  Again, I point
out that the whole reason the information was there was that _Nizkor_ was
attacked with the program.  Yet somehow Ms. Rimland not only closed her
eyes and ears to this _revisionist_ electronic terrorism masquerading as
"fighting the Holocaust myth," but actually twisted it around to an attack
on revisionists!  There's a word that comes to mind to describe this:

>I want to say in closing that the president of Webcom, Chris Schefler, who
>is Jewish, has behaved towards us in an absolutely impeccable professional
>manner.  We have never received anything but the finest of service from
>him.  Webcom has stuck to their "freedom of speech" stance even during this
>second, more vicious, crippling and financially damaging attack, and  even
>though the owner of this server disagrees with us and has been greatly
>inconvenienced.  The irresponsibility that Nizkor has displayed with its
>listing of instructions on how to mail-bomb an opponent does not help
>decent Jews with standards.

    Electronic terrorism does not aid anyone, which is why both Jamie and
I have offered to help even revisionists who are victimized by it.  I have
even offered technical advice, gratis, to revisionists having trouble with
their computers or Internet service - I am firmly committed to having this
discussion conducted solely on facts and arguments, not who can use (or
abuse) the technology better. 

    Having the information does help you to understand what you're up
against if you're hit by it.  The revisionist I helped was attacked with
the program before I was aware the information was mentioned on Nizkor.

    If she had simply said she thought Nizkor exercised bad judgement
because the danger of making the information available outweighed the
benefit of educating potential victims, that would at least have been
within the bounds of civil discourse.  However, she has descended into a
smear campaign.  Not only that, Ms. Rimland has by her own standards
joined the ranks of the irresponsible by pointing her readers to the
information.  This is not merely her Zundelgram subscribers, who I am sure
she trusts not to do such a naughty thing, but any random delinquent
reading the Zundelsite. 

>Or, for that matter, inter-ethnic harmony.
>Nor does it aid the "memory of the victims of the Holocaust" one bit.

    I would also suggest to Ms. Rimland that hysterical and paranoid
libelous accusations do not help matters either - especially in a context
which could be taken, even if unintentionally, as a suggestion to
retaliate for the imaginary misconduct.

    I understand that Ms. Rimland has agreed to publish the URL of
Nizkor's reply and, though she dismissed it scornfully, at least prompted
her readers to check it out and make up their own minds.  For this I thank


Mike Stein			The above represents the Absolute Truth.
POB 10420			Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
Arlington, VA  22210		position of my employer.

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