From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Jan  1 11:51:11 PST 1997
Article: 104797 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Anti-Defamation League Honors A Pornographer
Date: 1 Jan 1997 18:10:25 GMT
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In article <5a972p$baj$1@gail.ripco.com>, jums@ripco.com (Justified Elder
of Mu Mu) wrote:

> Orest Slepokura (slepokuo@cadvision.com) wrote:
> 
> : ADL defames itself by honoring Hefner
> 
> : by William F. Buckley Jr.
> 
> : [The St. Louis Globe-Democrat - September 19 1980]
> 
> Somehow it seems that a man like Buckley, who after writing an article
> acknowledging Pat Buchanan denies Treblinka ever happened and blamed U.S.
> Jews for sending Christians to their death for the sake of Israel in the
> Persian Gulf War proceded to *endorse him for President,* has lost the moral
> authority to criticize Jews on just about anything.


=============================================================================

Look at the date of the article, Mu Mu, what Buckley said he said almost
17 years ago, way, way before the things you allege Buckley said had ever
even been uttered!

The fact remains: the ADL celebrated a pornographer...

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Jan  1 11:51:12 PST 1997
Article: 104803 of soc.culture.jewish
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: The ADL: Using "intimidation to silence criticism"
Date: 1 Jan 1997 18:33:13 GMT
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In article <5a9vcq$ekn@morgoth.sfu.ca>, khaskin@sfu.ca (Grigori Khaskin) wrote:

> Abuisneineh (sneineh@worldnet.att.net) wrote:
> : Grigori Khaskin wrote:
> : > 
> : > Orest Slepokura (slepokuo@cadvision.com) wrote:


> In despair not Slepokurva, but another personality responded.
> 
> So mister Slepokura = Jafar = abuisneineh and = the others notorious
> idiots. 
> 
> Interesting, what is the names in the real paycheques you are getting from
> the fashist arab underground?
> 
> 
>                                         G.K.
> 
> P.S. Nauchis` po-russki materit`sia, kozzzel.

=============================================================================

Dear Gruc,

And a happy new year to you, too!

As a new year's resolution, may I suggest you at least learn to spell.
After all, you wouldn't want to look like (if I may borrow your own word
for a moment) an "idiot". It's fascist, not "fashist"...

But speaking of fascists (since the subject evidently interests you)...

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April 1976, it included a tour of Yad Vashem, the
Holocaust museum in Jerusalem, where the late Yitzhak Rabin and other
Jewish dignitaries invited the onetime Nazi collaborator and implacable
White supremacist to pay homage to the victims of the Holocaust.

Oddly enough, all this was received by both Israeli and Diaporan Jews with
an attitude of calm equanimity.

I wonder why.

Any idea, Gruc? Nu?

Orest

============================================================================+

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Jan  2 05:46:06 PST 1997
Article: 90494 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.censorship,alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Caller acquitted of harassing talk-show host
Date: 2 Jan 1997 05:29:27 GMT
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The Anatomy of a Hoax [1]

Often, a bogus charge of anti-Semitism (or racism) is made because of
values or opinions or beliefs expressed in a public forum. 

Consider the case of one Thomas Speers of Waterbury, CT, whose expression
of free speech, ironically, landed him in court at the behest of the the
radio talk show host whose program Speers had called.

Speers was arrested after radio talk show host Jay Clark, who is Jewish,
filed a complaint with the police. Among the accusations made against
Speers was that he was guilty of "Jew baiting."  Why? Because he had been
a frequent critic of Israel.  Jay Clark, the talk show host, incidentally,
also testified that he himself often made quite personal attacks on Speers
on the air.

Speers, however, contended that he was not anti-Semitic, but that he was
merely anti-Zionist and anti-Israel.

In ordering Speers' acquittal, Superior Court Judge, Anthony V. Demayo, said: 

"What upsets me most about the state's position is that the reason we are
prosecuting this defendant is that his views differ so vehemently from
those of the talk-show host."

===============================================================================

Caller is acquitted of harassing talk show  [Associated Press, April 8, 1989]

WATERBURY, CONN. - A judge ordered an acquittal Tuesday in the trial of a
man who was charged with harassment because he made frequent  anti-Zionist
calls to a radio talk show.

Thomas Speers, 44, was arrested in January 1986 after talk-show host Jay
Clark filed a complaint with police.

About two hours after the prosecution rested its case Tuesday, Superior
Court Judge Anthony VDeMayo ordered an acquittal. The case never went to
the six-member jury.

DeMayo said Speers was exercising his First Amendment right of free speech
in calling Clark's program. 

Clark, host of the weekday "Talk of the Town" program on WATR-AM in
Waterbury, complained to police about Speers' frequent telephone calls and
post cards. Clark, who is Jewish, testified that he thought he was a
victim of "Jew baiting" because Speers frequently complained about Israel.

Speers contended that his calls and post cards were protected by the First
Amendment. He also denied being anti-Semitic, saying his calls were
anti-Zionist and anti-Israel.

The judge said: "His choice of language might be unpleasant, but I heard
nothing that might be obscene or that could be categorized as fighting
words. All of it falls under the category of political speech.

"What upsets me most about the state's position is that the reason we are
prosecuting the defendant is that his views differ so vehemently from
those of the talk-show host."

After the trial ended, Speers said he probably would resume calling
Clark's program. He had ceased making his calls after his arrest.

Clark testified that Speers calls upset him. He said Speers would call to
make such comments as "Jews kill Arab babies" and "Did you know there are
concentration camps in Israel?"

The talk-show host said he kept some tapes of telephone calls from Speers,
but he had no record of calls in which Speers made statements that Clark
found upsetting.

Clark also testified that he frequently made personal attacks against
Speers on the air and wasn't aware of federal regulations regarding such
attacks.

Under the so-called Fairness Doctrine, the target of a personal attack
must be supplied with a transcript, tape or summary of the attack. The
target also must be afforded on-air time to respond.

     ================================ END ===============================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Jan  2 05:46:07 PST 1997
Article: 90520 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.canada,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Curiouser and Curiouser: The Bogutin Case
Date: 2 Jan 1997 08:12:14 GMT
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July 18, 1996

MAN, 87, DENIES WAR CRIMES

FEDS SAY HE HELPED IN EXECUTIONS, SEEK HIS DEPORTATION 

By BILL DUNPHY

Toronto Sun

Ê A City of York grandfather branded a war criminal by the Canadian
government claims he tried to save Jews during World War II and is half
Jewish himself.

Ê Justice department lawyers filed papers in Federal Court yesterday
seeking to strip Ukrainian-born Wasily Bogutin, 87, of his Canadian
citizenship. 

Ê Spokesman Clive Doucete said the government believes Bogutin
participated in the executions and deportations of civilians in
German-occupied Ukraine between 1941 and 1943.

Ê Doucete said Bogutin failed to tell Canadian authorities about his
alleged involvement with the war crimes and should therefore be stripped
of his citizenship and deported.

Ê However, in an impromptu press conference in his kitchen, the former
construction worker denied helping the Nazis round up and execute
Ukrainian Jews and others.

Ê "I kill no one," he said. In broken English, and with the help and
translation of a neighbor whose husband was a survivor of Auschwitz,
Bogutin denied harming anyone.

Ê Admitting he had worked for the Selidovka district police, Bogutin said
it was only because the chief of police was his mother's godson and was
trying to protect him. "He took me into police to protect me, I (am) half
Jewish and anyone Jewish (was) killed."


Ê RECORDS KEEPER

Ê The T-shirted widower said he worked as a kind of warehouse clerk and
records keeper for the force.

Ê The widower claimed he used his position twice to try to save Jews. 

Ê Bernie Farber of the Canadian Jewish Congress puts no credence in
Bogutin's claims.

Ê "These people are charged with the most serious crimes imaginable. It is
not surprising they will say anything to cast themselves in a better
light." 

Ê Bogutin's neighbor, Helen Kozlowski, whose Polish husband survived Nazi
death camps, said she found it hard to believe the government's
allegations. 

Ê Bogutin is "a very good person ... who helps everyone," she said. 

=======================================END=====================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Fri Jan  3 00:47:08 PST 1997
Article: 90664 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,alt.censorship,alt.conspiracy
Subject: German TV Documentary Filmmaker Convicted of Fraud
Date: 3 Jan 1997 03:15:00 GMT
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By Martin Schlicht [December 23, 1996]

KOBLENZ, Germany (Reuter) - A German television journalist was convicted
of fraud Monday for selling bogus documentaries featuring staged racist
gatherings, cat shootings, drug smuggling and bomb-making operations. 
Michael Born, a 38-year-old TV journalist who claimed he was merely giving
the networks what they asked for, was immediately sentenced to four years
jail by a state court in this west German town. 

The court found Born guilty of 17 counts of fraud and three counts of
attempted fraud. He also was convicted of inciting racial hatred and
faking a criminal act.

Born sold 32 fraudulent documentaries to German and Swiss networks. He
pleaded guilty but said network executives aired his films knowing some
segments were not authentic.

The bogus material appeared in the early 1990s in many of Germany's
best-known magazine-style news broadcasts, such as Stern TV on network
RTL, Spiegel TV on Vox and ZAK on public broadcaster ARD. 

Judge Ulrich Weiland said prosecutors, who had demanded a five-year prison
term, had proved Born supplied the programs with fabricated film footage.
``The claim from Born that the TV programs were to blame or were
co-conspirators was proved to be false,'' Weiland said. 

But Weiland singled out Stern TV for special criticism, saying it failed
to adequately check Born's film contributions because they were more
interested in obtaining good ratings.

Fierce competition for ratings in Germany's rapidly growing television
market, the world's second richest behind the United States, has led to
many magazine-style TV programs pulling out all the stops to obtain
dramatic film footage.

Saying he was fulfilling network orders to provide exclusive film, Born
delivered staged scenes of such things as German Ku Klux Klan members
burning books, Kurdish bomb-makers and drug smugglers crossing the border
into Germany.
Born, who received $225,500 for his films, also staged one scene of men
shooting a cat in the forest.

``The concrete demand is: they want film of something that is happening
out there somewhere in the world, but for which film is not available,''
said Born from custody earlier this year.

``They say, 'you bring us pictures of these things that no one else has
and no one else can possibly have.' You make the impossible possible.'' 

==================================== END ======================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Jan  4 15:59:51 PST 1997
Article: 90995 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is Ernst Zundel's stie?
Date: 3 Jan 1997 22:37:29 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
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In article <5ah3st$oue@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

>     There was a discrepancy between your article header and the body.  If
> you want Zundel's site, that's
> 
>     http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english/welcome.html
> 
> If you want to know the location of Zundel's stye (note spelling), that's
> in his eye.
> 
>     Finally, if what you really wish to know is where his sty is, that's
> in Toronto.  (For the exact street address, last time I looked it was on
> his website.  However, I don't want to publish it myself and be accused of
> encouraging unlawful violent attacks against his home.) 
> 
>     Hope this helps!
> -- 
> Mike Stein                      The above represents the Absolute Truth.
> POB 10420                       Therefore it cannot possibly be the official
> Arlington, VA  22210            position of my employer.
==============================================================================

That's a wise precaution, Mike, since 2 of the 7 acts of political
terrorism committed in the banana republic of Copa Canada (accent on the
2nd syllable) in 1995 were directed against Ernst Zundel.

On May 8, as you know, his house was firebombed. Afterwards, I noticed
that several newspapers in Canada, including some of the major dailies,
published a spate of coy letters poking fun at Zundel's tragedy, some of
these being written by the more prominent mainstream Jewish activists in
Toronto (Zundel's hometown) like Bert Raphael and Sol Littman. 

They made light of Zundel's personal tragedy and apparently spared no
thought for Zundel's neighbours, who were also burned out of their homes;
Zundel's neighbours being nothing more in the equation than nonentities.
It seems one family next door had been lucky to escape alive following the
firebombing. It was a curious attitude they adopted, these Jews,
considering how often their own co-religionists were the victims of such
terrorist attacks. 

Certainly, telltale of an extremist mindset, since many extremists tend to
personalize their hostility and to celebrate the misfortune of their
enemies. When a critic or an adversary dies or develops a terminal illness
or endures a bad accident, extremists often chuckle and snort about how he
"had it coming" to him: for example, the right-wing wing extremists
applauding the assassination of Dr. King or the left-wing extremists
applauding the crippling of Governor Wallace. 

A few months later, on November 5, Yigal Amir shot and killed Yitzhak
Rabin. Were Zundel's detractors still chuckling and snorting, I wondered?

I notice that yesterday's Calgary Herald [Jan. 2] describes an Israeli
soldier named Noam Friedman going on a shooting spree in Hebron. It reads,
in part ["Israeli soldier fires on civilians," Norma Greenaway, p. A5]:
"The gunman, a 19-year-old religious Jew who lives in a settlement near
Jerusalem, showed no regret for his actions."

Adding: "He defiantly rejected a television reporter's charge he had fired
on innocent men, women and children. 'They are not innocent,' he shouted.
'They hate Israel.'"

Which brings me to the 2nd violent attack on Ernst Zundel in 1995. Some
brave terrorist(s) had mailed him a lethal parcel bomb, which Zundel then
personally hand-delivered to a local police precinct in Toronto, from
where it was taken and detonated. 

One of the RCMP officers who investigated the case afterwards noted that,
"Innocent people  could have been killed..." The shocking implication
of course being that people who somehow are not "innocent" might just
deserve to be blown away. I guess that's what Noam Friedman reckoned, and
Yigal Amir.

Finally, you refer to Zundel's home as a "sty," which the Oxford
Dictionary defines as a "pen or enclosure for pigs; filthy abode or
dwelling; place of debauchery."   

I was reminded of George Lincoln Rockwell calling Jerusalem's Wailing Wall
a "pissoir" (a public urinal).

Tit for tat, I guess.

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan  5 11:43:11 PST 1997
Article: 91170 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is Ernst Zundel's stie?
Date: 4 Jan 1997 23:42:58 GMT
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In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> In article 
slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
> 
> 
> >That's a wise precaution, Mike, since 2 of the 7 acts of political
> >terrorism committed in the banana republic of Copa Canada (accent on the
> >2nd syllable) in 1995 were directed against Ernst Zundel.
> 
> >On May 8, as you know, his house was firebombed. 
> 
> That depends on how you look at it.  
> 
> By the standards of the holocaust deniers, it not only wasn't firebombed, but 
> probably never actually stood on the site that the "inflamationists" claim it 
> did.  

===============================================================================

Of course, Joel Rosenberg is correct: events can be looked at in different
ways and interpreted in a subjective manner.

The problem I underscored is that some militants will try to resolve an
issue through an act of terrorism: I cited the recent example of the
Israeli soldier, Noam Friedman, going on a shooting rampage in Hebron. 

Friedman, said to be a 19-year-old religious Jew, who had tried to emulate
Dr. Baruch Goldstein and massacre as many Palestinian civilians as
possible, gave the following reason as the rationale for his behaviour: 

"They [i.e., the Palestinian civilans he shot] are not innocent. They hate
Israel" ["Terror in Hebron," Norma Greenaway, The Calgary Herald, Jan. 2,
1997, p. A5]. So, to his way of thinking, they "deserved" to die a violent
death.

I showed that extremists of one political stripe would applaud the murder
of Dr. King, while extremists of different political stripe would applaud
the crippling of Gov. Wallace: they were mirror images of each other; the
danger being in the mold of an extremist mindset, which breeds terrorist
violence. 

For example,the Jan. 2nd Globe and Mail reports ["Extremists see deal on
Hebron as betrayal," Abraham Rabinovich, p. A8]: 

"The large contingent of security guards that surrounds the Prime Minister
[Netanyahu] is intended to guard him from JEWISH EXTREMISTS [m.e.] at
least as much as from hostile Arabs." 

Naturally, after the Nov. 5, 1995 assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, Israeli
security forces realize they cannot afford to play fast and loose with the
safety of their prime minister.

Was the murder of Prime Minister Rabin a bad thing?  Of course, it was,
even though for some Jews it was evidently *not* seen as a bad thing at
all. Indeed, they celebrated his murder. 

I recall the odd, outlandish hosts of the New York City cable television
show, "Positively Jewish," getting up and doing a merry jig right on the
air; they were positively delighted by his assassination. 

Joel Rosenberg also refers to "the standards of the holocaust deniers..."
Note his rendering of the word Holocaust by using the letter "h" in its
lower case.
I suppose that by the standards of some Holocaust purists or
fundamentalists it might be found that Joel Rosenberg was unwittingly
engaging in Holocaust denial by (what I am sure was) his carelessness in
failing to employ a capital "H" in rendering the word Holocaust. 

Now if some commentators, including prominent Jews, can be quite partisan
and subjective as to what constitutes an act of terrorism and what does
not, then surely the same latitude might be allowed for what is decried as
"Holocaust denial."  

To my mind, the supreme act of Holocaust denial occurred in the very place
that was intended to venerate the memory of the victims of the Holocaust:
Yad Vashem. 

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April 1976, it included a tour of Yad Vashem, Israel's
premier Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin and other
high-ranking Jewish officials invited the onetime Nazi collaborator and
implacable White supremacist to pay homage to the victims of the
Holocaust. 

All told, Vorster's reception in Israel was a very warm and cordial one.
As Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi observed [The Israeli Connection, Pantheon
Books: New York, 1987, pp. x-xi]: 

"...Vorster had been a Nazi collaborator who, according to Israeli law,
should have been arrested and put on trial the minute he set foot on
Israeli soil. Instead, he landed at the Tel-Aviv airport, the red carpet
was rolled out, and Israel's prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, greeted him
with a warm hug . There were plenty of welcoming articles in the
Israeli press..." 

Holocaust denial anyone?

So much for the Jewish elites; as for the Jewish public, their attitude
was one of calm equanimity. 

It's obvious that had Ernst Zundel devised a way to help further Jewish
interests there can be no doubt that he,too, would have also been warmly
welcomed and embraced in a like manner by Prime Minister Rabin. Who knows?
Perhaps even by Joel Rosenberg. 

Would Yitzhak Rabin have been wrong to welcome Ernst Zundel to Israel? 

Joel Rosenberg: "That depends on how you look at it."

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan  5 11:43:12 PST 1997
Article: 91174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc91.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,bc.general,ont.general,edm.general,van.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: Is McVay Jewish, a golem, or a shabbas-goy??
Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:39:35 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References:   <32CF76A6.6C18@concentric.net>
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In article <32CF76A6.6C18@concentric.net>, Patrick Lepine
 wrote:

> WAHRHEIT wrote:
> > 
> > Inquiring minds want to know whether Ken McVay is a Jew, a golem made from
> > bris pippicks, or just a shabbas-goy???
> > 
> > Since Oyvey likes to hide in the synagogue basement, one must wonder why
> > it does not like the light of day.
> > 
> > Could it be that it performs the dark deeds in the middle of the night,
> > like blood-sucking vampires??
> > 
> > >
> > >
> Why bother?

==============================================================================

          "Inquring minds want to know whether Ken McVay is..." 

Surely, "inquiring minds" should be more interested in relevant matters.

For example, in the fact that Nizkor is subsidized by a Victoria
synagogue; the fact that Nizkor is engaged in the relentless archiving of
dissident opinions. 
That's important to know, and something to factor into whatever Ken McVay
will dish out, since, "He who pays the piper (often) calls the tune," etc.


As for the heaping up a lot of gratuitous smears... 

Name-calling and character assassination often end up saying a lot more
about the name-caller and the character assassin than they do about the
individual being done in. 

They're signs of immaturity, of intellectual poverty; and they divert
attention from what might be serious discussions pertaining to historical
issues. 

Even Ken McVay had conceded that labelling an opponent "a Nazi pig"
ultimately was self-defeating. (Mind you, whether he still does that, I
have no idea.)

There are many labels a detractor might choose to pin on Ken McVay: a
snoop, snitch, lackey, professional busybody (just to list some of the
more charitable ones), but that practice gets real old real quick. 

Better to stick to the facts. That demonstrates some faith in the power of
the truth. Name-calling and character assassination are also telltale
signs of profound insecurity.

Orest Slepokura 

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan  5 15:24:42 PST 1997
Article: 106079 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!xenitec!news.uunet.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!204.71.1.48!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!CTCnet!info.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc91.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: AN APOLOGY
Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:40:10 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References: <32CD860F.231A@worldnet.att.net>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:106079 soc.culture.israel:54814 soc.culture.palestine:25096 talk.politics.mideast:86419

In article <32CD860F.231A@worldnet.att.net>, Abuisneineh
 wrote:

> Since I am new to the internet, I came with too much enthusiasm and 
> anger out of severe personal tragedies. I made several posts that were
> not appropriate. 
============================================================================

We all make mistakes. To err is human; to forgive divine. 

What is important is to learn from one's mistakes, not to go on repeating
them *ad infinitim*. 

We grow in proportion to what you learn from the mistakes made.

By all means, continue to contribute articles here and to post elsewhere
on the Net.

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan  5 15:24:43 PST 1997
Article: 106081 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!xenitec!news.uunet.ca!uunet!in3.uu.net!204.180.128.35!news.mindspring.com!mindspring!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.math.psu.edu!CTCnet!info.ucla.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc91.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.african.american
Subject: Re: Anti-Defamation League Honors A Pornographer
Date: 5 Jan 1997 17:41:19 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 52
Message-ID: 
References:  <5a972p$baj$1@gail.ripco.com>  <5agj4g$p3b$1@gail.ripco.com>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca talk.politics.mideast:86420 soc.culture.israel:54816 soc.culture.jewish:106081 soc.culture.african.american:133938

In article <5agj4g$p3b$1@gail.ripco.com>, jums@ripco.com (Justified Elder
of Mu Mu) wrote:

> Orest Slepokura (slepokuo@cadvision.com) wrote:
> : > Somehow it seems that a man like Buckley, who after writing an article
> : > acknowledging Pat Buchanan denies Treblinka ever happened and blamed U.S.
> : > Jews for sending Christians to their death for the sake of Israel in the
> : > Persian Gulf War proceded to *endorse him for President,* has lost
the moral
> : > authority to criticize Jews on just about anything.
>
> > : The fact remains: the ADL celebrated a pornographer...
> 
> Unless WFB went through a radical character change between 1980 and 1992,
> the point still stands.  Nelson Mandella honored a mass murderer - Fidel
> Castro -  did that make the ANC a wicked organization?

===============================================================================
When Nelson Mandela visited Miami a few years ago, the black community in
that city welcomed him effusively. 

However, both the Miami Cuban community and its Jewish community were
critical of Nelson Mandela, and did not share in the wild ethusiasm of the
Afro-American community for Nelson Mandela. 

The Cubans because of Mandela's strong ties to Cuban dictator Fidel
Castro; the Jews because of Nelson Mandela's strong ties to the Libyan
dictator Muammar Khadafy. 

I've got no problem with that. 

If those communities in that city saw in Mandela and/or the ANC a greatly
diminished moral authority, then so be it. 

They had every right to, in my view.

As for the ADL, the fact remains it's a Jewish organization that paid
homage to a pornographer.

To my mind, it has little moral authority; for this, and for scores of
other, far more serious reasons.

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Jan  6 06:52:25 PST 1997
Article: 91385 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agta87.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general,qc.general,qc.politique
Subject: Re: JEW GALGANOV FOLDS - No Support!!
Date: 6 Jan 1997 13:35:21 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
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In article <32CFE932.42FA@IBM.NET>, NCRCCJC@IBM.NET wrote:

> Bernie Farber responds:
> 
> Hmm. Since Villineuve is still being investigated for his comments, does
> this mean that WARHEIT can be investigated as well? Just asking.
> 
> Some junk snipped

==============================================================================

To Bernie Farber's coy insinuation, I would like to add what I believe is
a most appropriate quotation. This, from John Mortimer, the English
playwright, commentator and creator of the *Rumpole* series on TV:

"I disapprove of what you say and I'll do my best to see that saying it is
made a criminal offence."

I suspect Mortimer might have been speaking in jest here. 

However, one man's joke may be another's most cherished, guiding principle.

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Jan  6 06:52:26 PST 1997
Article: 91386 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agta87.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,mtl.general,qc.general,qc.politique
Subject: Re: JEW GALGANOV FOLDS - No Support!!
Date: 6 Jan 1997 13:38:24 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 105
Message-ID: 
References:  <32d02697.2171954@news.inetworld.net>
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In article <32d02697.2171954@news.inetworld.net>, rcf@inetworld.net wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Jan 1997 10:31:25 -0500, WAHRHEIT  wrote:
> 
> >The Canadian Press report today that the Jew Galganov is shutting down his
> >anti-Quebec group - Quebec Political Action Committee.
> 
> Is the "Canadian Press" and actual newspaper?  If not, why are you
> capitalizing it?
> >
> >Also, his so-called store in Montreal is also closing.
> 
> Can we get a real reference to this?
> >
> >Jew Galganov admits that he never got the support of people, even in
> >Quebec.
> 
> Again, what's the reference.  And why exactly do you need to point out
> his ethnic group?
> >
> >Galganov even complains that the English in Quebec refused to have
> >anything to do with him, or his group.
> 
> That, I suspect is total bullshit.  Again, what's your reference for
> this?
> >
> >The prominent radio station CJAD had a panel discussion, where Galganov
> >claims, he was vilified.
> 
> He undoubtably was.  The PQ is not known for its even-handed tactics.
> >
> >Looks as though people even in Quebec are starting to regard the views of
> >Raymond Villeneuve seriously.
> 
> Don't recognize the name.  Must be some fascist bigot.  Typical PQ
> nonsense.
> >
> >Good riddance to galganov.
> 
> Do you really think the Anglophone activists are going to go away?
> >
> >Hopefully the rest of Canada will start thinking the way that sensible
> >residents have in Quebec!!!
> 
> There's nothing sensible about Quebec politics.  Fortunately, most
> sensible residents don't think in the same fascist terms that you do.
> 
> 
> =Bob

============================================================================== 
  Bob,

One reliable source for the story regarding the resignation of English
rights crusader, Howard Galganov, appeared in the Saturday, Jan. 4 edition
of The Globe & Mail. 

The headline on p. A5 reads: "Galganov to quit language battle." 

The subheading states: "Engish-rights activist cites criticism, lack of
anglophone support in decision to halt crusade."

According to Karen Unland, what made Galganov decide to stop his crusade
were the negative commentaries expressed by a panel on the Montréal radio
station CJAD on New Year's Day.

One of the verbs Unland used to describe the attitude of the CJAD panel of
English speakers toward Howard Galganov's work was "scoffed..."  

As in: "The panel *scoffed* at Mr. Galganov's trip to Wall Street in
September to express the dangers of Quebec separatism..."

To my mind, Galganov had spoken some bitter truths that long-needed to be
said regarding the harsh texture of Quebec policies towards its various
minorities. 

Moreover, he had defended freedom of expression, which I believe to be the
bedrock of any democracy; defended it, I might add, for both the English
speakers of Montreal *and* the French speakers in Ottawa! 

What's also interesting is the fact that back in 1969 young Howard had
been a member of Rabbi Meir Kahane's Jewish Defence League [Aug. 26,1996
Toronto Star], and enthusiastically joined in the Kahane-led campaign of
harassment against Soviet Russian diplomats and their families, as well as
the Soviet embassies and consulates in both Canada and the United States. 

Its goal was to focus attention on and to generate sympathy for Soviet
Jewry, as well as to undermine relations between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R.
[Robert Friedman's The False Prophet, p. 87, 105-108].

To those who have asked him, Galganov insists he was "proud" of the work
that he did as a member of the Jewish Defence League, notwithstanding its
ugly ugly reputation for racism and terrorism, Jewish chauvinism and
Zionist fanaticism.

To each his own, I guess.

=============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Jan  6 11:26:44 PST 1997
Article: 91409 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg154.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Typical Unsigned Editorial
Date: 6 Jan 1997 14:24:11 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 39
Message-ID: 
References: <32d56bf9.4663297@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg154.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <32d56bf9.4663297@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran)
wrote:

[snip]

      Wednesday's shooting of Palestinian civilians by a *crazed* Israeli
> soldier should have reminded everyone of the dangers of further delay.
> Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, has *courageously* pressed
> ahead with plans for troop withdrawals in Hebron, despite opposition
> from a militant Jewish settler movement and a large minority of his
> Cabinet.

==============================================================================

The reference to a "crazed" Israeli gunman is a recurring motif in reports
of such incidents. The same will likely be said of the next such episode;
and the one after that. 

The same was said of Yigal Amir, that and the fact he was described as
having acted "alone," even though Amir's brother was very soon afterwards
likewise implicated in the plot to kill Yitzhak Rabin.

Calling Netanyahu "courageous" is, I think, no exaggeration. Not after
what was done to Yitzhak Rabin. Certainly the Jewish settler movement will
regard the Hebron deal--should it follow the original Oslo
prescription--as a betrayal. Netanyahu may end up being hated even more
than the Labor Party leader, Rabin, ever was. 

Betrayal by one of your "own" is always a far, far more bitter and
unbearable experience.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Tue Jan  7 08:36:58 PST 1997
Article: 91587 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg77.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,bc.general,ont.general,edm.general,van.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: Is McVay Jewish, a golem, or a shabbas-goy??
Date: 7 Jan 1997 13:46:52 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 142
Message-ID: 
References:   <32CF76A6.6C18@concentric.net>  <32D11EDC.3E63@vir.com>
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In article <32D11EDC.3E63@vir.com>, friedman@vir.com wrote:

> Orest Slepokura wrote:
> 
> > For example, in the fact that Nizkor is subsidized by a Victoria
> > synagogue; the fact that Nizkor is engaged in the relentless archiving of
> > dissident opinions.
> > That's important to know, and something to factor into whatever Ken McVay
> > will dish out, since, "He who pays the piper (often) calls the tune," etc.
============================================================================== 
Matt Friedman:

> You might add that the Nizkor Project is funded by a wide variety of
> individuals and organizations. The Victoria Synagogue in question is not
> the project's principal sponsor, but simply administers the trust fund
> managing Nizkor funding. Thus, it is safe to say that the synague is
> neither paying the piper, nor in a position to call the tune. Please
> check
>
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/m/mcvay.ken/1996/mcvay-comments-on-funding
> for more information.

=============================================================================

Orest Slepokura:

Matt Friedman states above (and I quote) that "The Victoria Synagogue in
question is not the [Nizkor] project's principal sponsor, but simply
administers the trust fund managing Nizkor funding." 

Which means: 

a) that the Victoria Synagogue is at least *one* of Nizkor's sponsors;

b) that it apparently signs the cheques that underwrite Nizkor's activities;

c) that Nizkor is allied with a Jewish sponsor, among others;

d) and therefore it would NOT be unreasonable to *conclude* that Nizkor
might just be biased in some of its political objectives, be ideologically
slanted towards Zionist goals, say, or be silent or muted in its criticism
of Israeli policies, no matter how reprehensible; not to mention a host of
other highly contentious and loaded historical and geopolitical issues.

All this I say are realities we should be AWARE of. What MF has added to
the information provided above merely confirms what I said in my post.

MF further insists that the Victoria Synagogue is "neither paying the
piper, nor in a position to call the tune," as though that is what I said.
In fact, what I wrote (as may be seen above) was this:

"'Since he who pays the piper (often) calls the tune,' etc." 

The inclusion of the bracketed qualifier "often" was intended to show that
this was NOT necessarily ALWAYS the case; I simply left open (to my mind)
the very real *possibility* that this might be so in the case of the
Nizkor Project. 

In fact, MF *did* confirm that there are indeed top-down administrative
ties between the Victoria Synagogue and the Nizkor Project (assuming, of
course, MF *really* knows or is saying what those arrangements are).

=============================================================================

Matt Friedman:

> As for archiving "dissident opinion," you're quite right. If these
> "dissidents" -- really neo-Nazis, Fascists and their fellow travellers
> -- value their "freedom of speech" then they can't really object to
> Nizkor's exercising a "freedom to archive." If you say something in a
> public place like Usenet, you shouldn't be surprised when someone takes
> notes. That's just the way it is.
> 
> Perhaps these "dissidents" don't want their own words to be held against
> them?

==============================================================================

Many identify the archiving of dissident opinion with such oppressively 
Orwellian government agencies ("Big Brother is watching you!") like the
Gestapo and the KGB, the Stasi and the CIA. It's a practice that
invariably evokes the hoary spectre of the snitch, the informant, the
spook, the back-stabber, the agent provocateur, the blabber-mouth, shadowy
plutocrats, smear artists, political whores, opportunists, parasites,
busybodies, gladhanders, and so on. 
To be sure, Nizkor has, as MF quaintly calls it, "the freedom to archive"
(it has, thanks to its sponsors, been afforded the technological means to
do so).

But, at the same time, Nizkor's relentless archiving might also be
construed as a "zeal to police other people's thoughts" by some or as an
"attempt to intimidate those holding dissenting opinions" by others.
Surely, MF's is hardly the only spin that can be given to what the
so-called Nizkor Project is all about. To his cherished "freedom to
archive," one could also add the freedom to speculate, doubt, dispute,
question, inquire, grow cynical and skeptical.

=============================================================================

> > There are many labels a detractor might choose to pin on Ken McVay: a
> > snoop, snitch, lackey, professional busybody (just to list some of the
> > more charitable ones), but that practice gets real old real quick.
> 
> I prefer the labels free-speech advocate, responsible Net citizen,
> researcher. In fact, as a journalist who has followed the on-line
> Neo-Nazis fairly closely for the last four years, I can say that the
> Nizkor archive is one of the best resources on the subject ANYWHERE. In
> fact, I've found that it is often better than interviews with the Nazis
> themselves. [They tend to dissemble, hem and haw, and it's impossible to
> get a sense of the continuity of their activities.]

==============================================================================

The paragraph just above begins with, "I prefer..." Labels may be easily
and casually stuck on friends and foes alike, whether flattering or
insulting. The late Yitzhak Rabin, for example,could be seen as a peacenik
and a martyr, or--recalling his brutish role in trying to quell the
Intifada waged by the Children of the Stones--a child molester and human
rights abuser. All depends on the spin doctor and his pet preferences.

==============================================================================
  
> > Better to stick to the facts. That demonstrates some faith in the power of
> > the truth.
> 
> Indeed. Please be sure to KNOW the truth when you purport to provide it.
> 
> M.

==============================================================================

No one individual is the custodian of the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth.

O.

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Tue Jan  7 17:39:10 PST 1997
Article: 91672 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb108.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Where is Ernst Zundel's stie?
Date: 7 Jan 1997 23:33:12 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 32
Message-ID: 
References:  <5ah3st$oue@access5.digex.net>  <32CFE6D1.62FB@IBM.NET>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb108.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <32CFE6D1.62FB@IBM.NET>, NCRCCJC@IBM.NET wrote:

> Bernie Farber responds:
> 
> Mr. Slepokura engages in his usual, "try to blame the Jews for all of
> Zundel's problems" game. This is a typical scheme Mr. Slepokura uses and
> cleverly at that. 
> 
> By juxtaposing Yigal Amir and Noah Friedman with the attacks on Zundel's
> home, he deviously attempts to insinuate some Jewish involvement in the
> criminal acts against Zundel. Nice try Orest!!

============================================================================

                                   Haiku

                              Gosh. Golly. Gee.
                              I wish I were
                              a straight arrow
                              like this Bernie
                              "Gotcha!" Farber

                                        - Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Jan  9 08:38:44 PST 1997
Article: 91953 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agte174.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pollard is still being paid
Date: 9 Jan 1997 04:12:28 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 81
Distribution: world
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References: <5armmv$d7k@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <19970106224400.RAA09213@ladder01.news.aol.com> <32d2a99e.3589238@news.gte.net>  <32d3522d.96167585@news.uniserve.com>
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In article <32d3522d.96167585@news.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com
(Hilary Ostrov) wrote:

> On 8 Jan 1997 04:45:43 GMT, in
> ,
> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:
> 
> Mr. Slepokura, since the Pollard case has no bearing on anything
> relating to the topic of this newsgroup, I'm sure you will forgive me
> for snipping most of your post.  However ...

==============================================================================

Ms. Ostrov:

"...the Pollard case has no bearing on anything relating to the topic of
this newsgroup..."

Nonsense! Several years ago when Jonathan Pollard and Anne Henderson were
both interviewed by Mike Wallace on "60 Minutes," one of the main reasons
Pollard said he betrayed his country and spied for Israel was the spectre
of Auschwitz and a possible rerun of the Holocaust if Israel was to be
denied the kind of help and resources he felt Israel required to defend
itself from its enemies.

==============================================================================

> >The fact [is] Pollard agreed to betray American interests for money. He
was greedy.
> 
> So you say. 

============================================================================== 

Actually, I was quoting an article [New York Daily News, Aug. 18, 1996] by
the onetime lead prosecutor in the Pollard case, Joseph diGenova, who
wrote that Pollard stood to make $540,000 over 10 years, and, yes, I
concluded that greed must have been a key factor in his treasonous
behaviour.

==============================================================================

But speaking of greedy, and bringing your post a little
> closer to the topic of this newsgroup, you are aware of course that
> Ernst Zundel derives considerable income from, amongst other things,
> selling proven forgeries, such as the Lachout Document.  Would you
> call him greedy, Mr. Slepokura?

> hro
==============================================================================

I've no idea how much Zundel earns from the sale of what you allege are
proven forgeries. If such fraudulent practices on his part were proven,
say, in court and Zundel convicted, then calling Zundel "greedy" would
certainly be in order; that might even be one of the milder put-downs that
could be levelled at him. 

Zundel is, of course, routinely described as a hate-monger, but never once
has he been formally charged, let alone convicted, on a hate-mongering
charge. It was last March, I believe, when authorities in Ontario, despite
pressure from various lobby groups, decided not to proceed against
Zundel...for lack of good evidence. 

There are some souls who regard abortionist Dr. Henry Morgenthaler as a
serial killer. But according to the laws of Canada, however, he is simply
a physician; an enlightened one, according to others.

There are others who regard spy Jonathan Pollard as a martyr for the
Zionist cause. According to U.S. law, however, he is simply a traitor; a
venal one, in my opinion. 

Orest Slepokura

============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Jan  9 13:29:17 PST 1997
Article: 91966 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The curiously unresponsive Mr. Swiger
Date: 9 Jan 1997 05:18:49 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 82
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In article <5aue68$7kb@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>, kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca
(Ken McVay OBC) wrote:

> In article <32d20074.92579933@news.dmsc.net>, 
> cswiger@westco.net (Cliff Swiger) wrote:
> 
> [i had said]
> 
>    "Actually, Mr. Swiger, history is not determined by any single
>    factor - particularly eyewitness testimony. It is determined by
>    the convergeance of evidence. Why you would attempt to obscure
>    that reality is a question I leave to others to explore."
> 
> >Oooooh, how many times have I read this line? The "convergence of
> >evidence" you mention here is exactly what is being challenged by
> >Revisionists. If its so rock solid you shouldn't worry, right? Fact is
> >the "evidence" given judicial notice at the Nuremburg and  "Auschwitz
> >Trials" did not follow Western jurisprudence. Take an olio of
> >crematories, concentration camps, emaciated corpses, a decimated foe
> >and a lot of "eyewitness testimony" that was given more weight in a
> >courtroom than any other form of evidence and you've got yourself the
> >makings of  a politically motivated kangaroo court. 
> 
> Mr. Swiger, I have yet to see any denier (spare me this
> "revisionist" crap - you are not a revisionist, you are a denier.
> There are, in fact, no revisionists active in a.r. or s.c.g. To
> understand the differnce, visit
> Http://www.nizkor.org/features/revision-or-denial/ - you won't
> understand it, of course, but everyone else will.
> 
> Thus no 'revisionist' has challenged the convergeance of evidence.
> Deniers rarely even try, given the vast accumulation of this
> evidence, but that's another story.

=============================================================================

In 1943, the New York Times published the claims of those who reported
seeing two million Jews being murdered in steam chambers at Treblinka
[Aug. 8, 1943].
Eyewitnesses were able to provide intimate details describing how these
steam chambers worked.

Then, on Dec, 5, 1945, a Polish government report was submitted to the
court at Nuremberg as prosecution exhibit USA-293, charging that Jews were
killed at the Treblinka complex by suffocation in "steam-filled chambers."
The Polish report was later published in the official Nuremberg trial
record as document PS-3311.

Here we have a "convergence of evidence" from two different sources: the
eyewitness testimony being bolstered by the forensic report of the Polish
authorities. So, one concludes that Poland's German occupiers *must have*
murdered Jews in the steam chambers of Treblinka.

Historians now inform us that there were *no steam chambers* used to kill
off Jews at Treblinka, that, instead, Jews (and others) had been gassed
using the diesel exhaust from an old Soviet tank engine.

That was certainly the testimony given at the Jerusalem trial of John
Demjanjuk [Feb. 28, 1987 - April 25, 1988], at which the Ohio autoworker
was convicted of being the motorman for the gas chambers, nicknamed Ivan
the Terrible, largely on the basis of corrupt eyewitness testimony* and a
KGB-supplied ID card* for Trawniki, which made no mention of any posting
to Treblinka.

*The most histrionic of Demjanjuk's 5 accusers, Eliyahu Rosenberg, for
example, signed two depositions, made in 1945 and 1947, describing how
big, bad Ivan was killed during the Aug. 2, 1943 inmate uprising, beaten
to death, Eli Rosenberg said, by shovel-wielding camp inmates.

*Julius Grant, whose foresnic skills, exposed the Stern magazine Hitler
diaries hoax of the early 1980s and William Flynn, who exposed the
"Salamander Letter" hoax among Mormon documents, both agreed that the
so-called Trawniki card was a crude forgery.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Fri Jan 10 09:28:33 PST 1997
Article: 93861 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agta112.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: German Television Documentary News Fraud
Date: 10 Jan 1997 03:01:53 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 60
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German Television Documentary News Fraud

By Martin Schlicht [December 23, 1996]

KOBLENZ, Germany (Reuter) - A German television journalist was convicted
of fraud Monday for selling bogus documentaries featuring staged racist
gatherings, cat shootings, drug smuggling and bomb-making operations. 
Michael Born, a 38-year-old TV journalist who claimed he was merely giving
the networks what they asked for, was immediately sentenced to four years
jail by a state court in this west German town. 

The court found Born guilty of 17 counts of fraud and three counts of
attempted fraud. He also was convicted of inciting racial hatred and
faking a criminal act.

Born sold 32 fraudulent documentaries to German and Swiss networks. He
pleaded guilty but said network executives aired his films knowing some
segments were not authentic.

The bogus material appeared in the early 1990s in many of Germany's
best-known magazine-style news broadcasts, such as Stern TV on network
RTL, Spiegel TV on Vox and ZAK on public broadcaster ARD. 

Judge Ulrich Weiland said prosecutors, who had demanded a five-year prison
term, had proved Born supplied the programs with fabricated film footage.
``The claim from Born that the TV programs were to blame or were
co-conspirators was proved to be false,'' Weiland said. 

But Weiland singled out Stern TV for special criticism, saying it failed
to adequately check Born's film contributions because they were more
interested in obtaining good ratings.

Fierce competition for ratings in Germany's rapidly growing television
market, the world's second richest behind the United States, has led to
many magazine-style TV programs pulling out all the stops to obtain
dramatic film footage.

Saying he was fulfilling network orders to provide exclusive film, Born
delivered staged scenes of such things as German Ku Klux Klan members
burning books, Kurdish bomb-makers and drug smugglers crossing the border
into Germany.
Born, who received $225,500 for his films, also staged one scene of men
shooting a cat in the forest.

``The concrete demand is: they want film of something that is happening
out there somewhere in the world, but for which film is not available,''
said Born from custody earlier this year.

``They say, 'you bring us pictures of these things that no one else has
and no one else can possibly have.' You make the impossible possible.'' 

==================================== END ======================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Jan 11 07:22:05 PST 1997
Article: 92134 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!205.252.116.190!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg126.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel
Subject: Joseph diGenova: Should Pollard go free?
Date: 10 Jan 1997 23:54:36 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92134 soc.culture.jewish:106987 soc.culture.israel:55156


Should Pollard go free? by Joseph E. diGenova [The New York Daily News,
Aug. 18, 1996]

Joseph E. diGenova, former U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, was
lead prosecutor in the Pollard case.

         ____________________________________________________________

Last month, President Clinton rightly denied for the second time the
special constitutional favor of clemency to convicted spy Jonathan Jay
Pollard. The reasons were the enormity of his crime, his lack of remorse
and the incalculable damage he caused U.S. national security.

Pollard, a U.S. citizen and civilian intelligence analyst for the U.S.
Navy. sought out the Israelis after he decided unilaterally that the
United States was not sharing enough information with the Israelis. In
1984, Pollard agreed to a 10-year plan of espionage against the U.S. for
pay. He was to receive $540,000 during the scheme.

He supplied the Israelis with thousands of the highest classified
documents, satellite photos, plans, technical information , systems
analyses and other information on U.S. and U.S. allies' defense
capabilities. He revealed our most sensitive sources and methods data,
threatening not only technical intelligence but also our human sources.

Before he was caught, he gave his Israeli handlers material that would
have filled a room 10 feet by six feet by six feet. With his credentials,
he went from one classified library to another and took literally
suitcases full of raw documents from there to his co-conspirators' safe
house in Northwest Washington, where they were duplicated with special
equipment. It was one of the largest losses of classified information in
U.S. history.

Eleven years after his arrest, the damage to U.S. intelligence and
national security persists at enormous cost.

Pollard's lack of remorse has never wavered. After his 1985 arrest,
Pollard told the FBI he'd "do it again if given the chance." His
then-wife, Anne Pollard, told "60 Minutes" shortly before her sentencing
that they had "a moral obligation" to do what they did in the spy case.
The Pollards had no regrets and were defiant in justifying their
espionage.

There has never been any question of guilt. Pollard and his wife pleaded
guilty. And his sentence, life with eligibility for parole in 10 years,
was consistent with other sentences for equally serious espionage,
contrary to his supports' claims.

By rejecting Pollard's plea for clemency, the president sent a strong
message to U.S. government employees that they cannot expect leniency if
they jeopardize national security by knowingly spying for a foreign power,
even an ally. Once information is compromised, all control over its use is
gone. The receiving country's agenda determines its ultimate use for bater
or whatever purpose. Even allies have goals adverse to ours.

The United States expends enormous resources in acquiring and building
intelligence systems and gathering intelligence overseas. People
(Americans and foreign nationals acting on our behalf) risk their lives to
get that information for our protection. One individual cannot take it
unto himself to act independently believing he is better able to decide
what is in the U.S.'s best interest.

Pollard's case was not aided by the fact that last year he was made an
Israeli citizen. That fueled fear inside the U.S. government that if
released now he would go there (as he has said he wants to) and further
damage our national security due to his encyclopedic knowledge of
intelligence data and photographic memory. The Israelis never returned the
to the U.S. the material Pollard sold to them, so he would be free to
assist in its use and exploitation. This concern was fed further by
Pollard's public statements in January [1996] that Israel, by granting him
citizenship publicly, should "enter into serious negotiations for my
release."

Clemency requires at minimum an honest, forthright recognition that wrong
has been done and an expression of regret for the harm done. Not a word of
remorse nor hint of sorrow for what he has done his country can be found
in his pronouncements.

He believes what he did was justified and that he responded to a higher
duty in spying against his country. So be it. The president also
recognized his higher duty and, instead of caving in to political pressure
almost always present in clemency cases, denied Pollard's request. He is
to be commended.


    ================================ END ===============================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Jan 11 07:22:06 PST 1997
Article: 92153 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!nic.wat.hookup.net!xenitec!news.uunet.ca!newsfeeder.toronto.ican.net!visi.com!mr.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!worldnet.att.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb175.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Deliberate Deceptions: Facts and Fallacy
Date: 10 Jan 1997 13:55:05 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:92153 soc.culture.israel:55160 soc.culture.jewish:106997 talk.politics.mideast:86634


Facts and Fallacy


>From  "Deliberate Deceptions" by Paul Findley


Fallacy:
"It is concluded clearly and unimpeachably from the evidence
and from comparison of war diaries that the attack on USS Liberty was
not in malice; there was no criminal negligence and the attack was made
by innocent mistake."
               --Government of Israel statement, 1967


Facts:


In bright daylight on June 8, with no other combat taking place nearby,

Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats repeatedly attacked the U.S.

intelligence ship Liberty off the Sinai coast, killing 34 of its crew

and wounding 171.  The attack involved the use of napalm, rockets,

machine guns, and torpedoes.  It had been preceded by reconnaissance by

Israeli planes for at least five and a half hours, during a time when

the ship was flying a new flag that flew freely in a light breeze.


Though Israel through the years has insisted it was a case of mistaken

identify and an accident, abundant evidence emerged to strongly support

the charge that Israel deliberately attacked the intelligence ship,

apparently because it feared the Liberty wound monitor Israeli

preparations for invading the Golan Heights the next day.  The Johnson

administration accepted Israel's claim that the assault resulted from

misidentifaction.  Even years later, Johnson ws evasive about the

incident, claiming in his memoirs that only ten men died in the attack.

It was a clear indicatin of how Johnson colluded with Israel.


At late as 1991, survivors of the attack charged the U.S. government

with continuing to cover up Israel's role.  Wrote James Ennes, a

lieutenant on the bridge on the day of the attack: "The official lid on

this story remains almost as tight as the day it was first applied."

This was despite the fact that such former officials as Secretary of

State Dean Rusk and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of State Admiral

Thomas Moorer had gone on record blaming Israel for deliberately

assaulting the Liberty.


Rusk's words in his memoirs: "I was never satisfied with the Israeli

explanation....  I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to

this day.  The attack was outrageous."  Concluded Ennes: "Yet despite

such strong opinions of key leaders, not a single person while still in

government has ever made any apparent effort to set the record

straight."


It was not until June 8, 1991, that the survivors were finally awarded a

presidential unit citation signed by Johnson in 1967 but not presented

at that time.  Then on November 6, 1991, columnists Rowland Evans and

Robert Novak finally discovered that the U.S. embassy in Beirut had

intercepted Israeli radio traffic in which an Israeli pilot reported:

"It's an American ship."  The Israeli command ignored the report and

ordered the pilot to press his attack.  Evans and Novak concluded that

Israel attacked "because [the Liberty] would have picked up every word

of communication between IDF headquarters and Israeli units preparing to

invade Syria."  The Israeli invasion of the Golan Heights came the day

after Israel had silence the Liberty.  The report was confirmed by

Dwight Porter, who was the American ambassador to Lebanon at the time.

Thus, after twenty-four years, the truth has finally emerged.


Source: Deliberate Deceptions by Paul Findley (Lawrence Hill Books, 1995

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Jan 11 10:39:41 PST 1997
Article: 92264 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.InterGate.BC.CA!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!spool.mu.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg106.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Michael Schmidt's "Neo-Nazis" book
Date: 11 Jan 1997 04:35:56 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 63
Message-ID: 
References: <5b1op8$94v@juliana.sprynet.com>
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In article <5b1op8$94v@juliana.sprynet.com>, 100574.3414@compuserve.com
(Emmanuel Marin) wrote:

> Having just searched for his name on both the alt.revisionism archives
> and the Nizkor web site, I found nothing on Michael Schmidt's book
> "neo-nazis". It is nevertheless a very interesting book about 
> Holocaust deniers, amongst many other things. Schmidt for
> instance met Thies Christophersen for an interview, but the
> latter thought Schmidt was a neo-nazi, so he started to
> tell him he had lied because nobody would ever forgive
> the nazis for what they had really done...
> 
> I have the French tranlastion of this book (1993), so I can 
> provide the whole 'French text', but it certainly would be 
> better to have the English version of the book, or even 
> better the original German paragraphs about this incredible 
> meeting.
> 
> Has someone here an English or a German version of this
> text ?
> 
> Emmanuel Marin
> Paris, France

==============================================================================

I have a 1993 copy of Michael Schmidt's book entitled *The New Reich*
published in New York by Pantheon Books. 

It has what some like to call a "breathless" quality to it. With Schmidt
seeing depressing signs of tne rise of neo-Nazi infuence in the smallest
tokens and gestures: a copy of a David Irving book being given to
Chancellor Kohl as a holiday gift, for example. Still, there is *some*
good information in it.

Something the Schmidt book lacked that I consider useful was an index.
That's makes it harder of course to pinpoint specific details.

The book itself was intended as a companion-piece to a documentary film
Schmidt made called "Wahrheit macht frei" ["Truth Shall Make You Free"]. 

I saw the movie a few years ago. It had a soundtrack that would have done
justice to a Grade B Dracula movie, as I recall. What I am saying is,
Schmidt seemed neither subtle nor particularly gifted as a maker of
documentary films.

For me, it was interesting as much as for *how* Schmidt said what he said
as it was for its narrative content.

I'm not aware of any Website where you can tap into book's
English-language version, though.


Orest Slepokura

=============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan 12 06:34:34 PST 1997
Article: 92401 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg138.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,talk.politics.mideast
Subject: Re: Deliberate Deceptions: Facts and Fallacy
Date: 11 Jan 1997 16:30:50 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 56
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In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:
[snip]
...

> It really makes one sick to see how Nazis and "Holocaust
> revisionists" use the Liberty tragedy for their own hateful
> cause. This is a grave insult to the memory of the American
> sailors who died on the ship.
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren

============================================================================

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April 1976, it naturally included a tour of Yad Vashem,
the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, where the late Yitzhak Rabin and
other Jewish VIPs had invited the onetime Nazi collaborator and quite
implacable White supremacist to pay homage to the victims of the
Holocaust.

Benjamin Beit Hallahmi observed [*The Israeli Connection*, "Prologue:
Vorster in Jerusalem, Pantheon Books: New York, 1987, pp. x-xi]: 

"...Vorster had been a Nazi collaborator who, according to Israeli law,
should have been arrested and put on trial the minute he set foot on
Israeli soil. Instead, he landed at the Tel-Aviv airport, the red carpet
was rolled out, and Israel's prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, greeted him
with a warm hug . There were plenty of welcoming articles in the
Israeli press..."

The dénouement to the Vorster visit is described by Andrew and Leslie
Cockburn in their 1991 bestseller *Dangerous Liaison* [Stoddart
Publishing: Toronto, pp. 299-300]:

"The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral agreements for
commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would become the basis
for future relations between the two countries." That is, between the
Jewish state and the apartheid regime in South Africa.

To paraphrase Danny Keren up above, it really makes one sick to see how
Jews and Zionists would use the Holocaust (not to mention an old Nazi and
his racist regime run by and for White supremacists) to further their own
hateful agenda. This is a grave insult to the millions of Jews who either
suffered or died during the Second World War.


Orest Slepokura

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Jan 12 23:12:06 PST 1997
Article: 92537 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.InterGate.BC.CA!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agta165.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: New Virtual Holocaust Museum Online!
Date: 11 Jan 1997 17:19:28 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 66
Message-ID: 
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agta165.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article ,
hoffman@hoffman-info.com (Michael A. Hoffman II) wrote:

> Visit the Virtual Museum of the Israeli Holocaust Against the Palestinians
> 
> which may be found in the "Archives" link of:
> 
> The Campaign for Radical Truth in History
> 
> http://www.hoffman-info.com
> 
> -------------------------------------------

=============================================================================

One of the more thoughtful books to examine how the Holocaust has been
cynically manipulated to further the Zionist political agenda is *Beyond
Innocence and Redemption: Confronting the Holocaust and Israeli Power*
[New York: Harper & Row, 1990] by a Jewish-American scholar named Marc H.
Ellis.

Ellis cites the work of Israel Shahak, a prominent Israeli civil
libertarian and human rights activist. 

After surviving internment in the German concentration camp of
Bergen-Belsen during the Second World War, Shahak emigrated to Israel,
where he worked for many years as a professor of chemistry at the Hebrew
University, and served as chairman of the Israeli League for Human and
Civil Rights.

Referring to his published collection of eyewitness testimony and articles
in Israel's Hebrew-language press on the brutality of the Zionist
occupation toward the Palestians, Shahak observed [p. 85]:

"It should be clear to everybody who reads this collection of testimonies,
that the systematic use of the atrocities, which in their intensity and
the special intention to humiliate *are* Nazi-like and *should* be
compared to the analogous German Nazi methods, is intentional and in fact
constitutes the Israeli method for ruling the Palestinians. There cannot
be any doubt in my opinion that those Nazi-like methods, in whose
effectiveness the stupid Israeli Army top command reposes a blind faith,
have been devised by 'experts,' in this case by the Israeli
'Arabists'...together with the military psychologists. There should be
also no doubt that those Nazi-like horrors can and probably will become
worse, if not stopped from outside, and their use can lead to actual
genocide, whether by a 'transfer' [forcible mass expulsion] or by an
extermination . Indeed, this is one of the reasons for assembling
this collection: to show that the actual genocide of the Palestinians in
the territories is now possible..."

As Ellis observes, the Israeli treatment of Palestinian prisoners included
bringing them naked to open fields for "death parades," typing rounded up
suspects to electricity poles for hours on end, harassing them with guard
dogs, and the "almost standard" practice of beating fathers in the
presence of their children (shades of Elie Wiesel!).

Orest Slepokura

=============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Jan 13 23:20:35 PST 1997
Article: 92764 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb170.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.general,bc.general,ont.general,edm.general,van.general,mtl.general
Subject: Re: Is McVay Jewish, a golem, or a shabbas-goy??
Date: 14 Jan 1997 04:43:04 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 92
Message-ID: 
References:   <32CF76A6.6C18@concentric.net>  <32D11EDC.3E63@vir.com>  <32D8BDFF.7254@vir.com>
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In article <32D8BDFF.7254@vir.com>, d00m@vir.com wrote:

Its the nature of the 'net Orest! You put something up,
> its going to get archived somewhere. Don't whine about it! And don't
> ascribe all sorts of nasty motivations to it either. I am glad to know
> (as are alot of people, including revisionists and Nazi symps) that this
> information is being archived somewhere. As a person with more than a
> passing interest in the holocaust and racism, I'd like to have access to
> that sort of information. I can't help thinking that if Mein Kampf was
> available and widely disseminated on the Internet in 1938, how that
> might have changed the course of history...Of course they didn't have an
> Internet back then, and look what happenned.

==============================================================================

We didn't have the Internet back in 1976, either, but Israel did have its
Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial museum in Jerusalem, to remind visitors
of what happened to the Jews of Europe between 1938 and 1945. In fact,
when the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April 1976, it was kick-started with a tour of Yad
Vashem, where the late Yitzhak Rabin invited his guest, a onetime Nazi
collaborator and an implacable White supremacist, to pay homage to the
victims of the Holocaust.

Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi observed ["Prologue: Vorster in Jerusalem," The
Israeli Connection: Who Israel Arms and Why, Random House of Canada Ltd.,
Toronto, 1987, pp. x-xi]: "...Vorster had been a Nazi collaborator who,
according to Israeli law, should have been arrested and put on trial the
minute he set foot on Israeli soil. Instead, he landed at the Tel-Aviv
airport, the red carpet was rolled out, and Israel's prime minister,
Yitzhak Rabin, greeted him with a war hug. There were plenty of welcoming
articles in the Israeli press..."

Talk about Orwellian, eh, Dave?

The dénouement to the Vorster visit is described in Leslie and Andrew
Cockburn's 1991 bestsetller Dangerous Liaison [Stoddart Publishing,
Toronto, pp. 299-300]: "The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral
agreements for commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would
become the basis for future relations between the two countries." 

Of the nuclear cooperation between the Jewish state and South Africa's
racist regime, onetime Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky has written [By Way
of Deception, Stoddart Publishing, Toronto, 1990, p.151]: "We worked hand
in hand with them for years."

"...hand in hand..."  The phrase resounds.

I share your faith in the power of awareness, Dave, but, as you can see
it's far from being absolute.
===============================================================================

> Bottom line, say whatever you like, as ludicrous and offensive and vile
> and idiotic as I might find it, I'll always support your freedom to
> express your ideas. But questioning the credibility of Ken McVay? Man,
> you are barking up the wrong tree! It says more about your personal
> pre-dispositions than it does about your command of objective facts (of
> which you clearly have none).
> 
> Ick...
> 
> Dave

===============================================================================

Yes, Dave, I think it naturally follows that what I or anybody says says a
lot about their "personal pre-dispositions." 

As for my "command of objective facts," concerning which you stated that I
"clearly have none," that of course showed up your own tendency for
rhetorical excess, since I established at least a couple of objective
facts which were the basis for your commentaries: namely, Ken McVay's
affiliation with Nizkor, and Nizkor's affiliation with the Victoria
synagogue.

Still, thanks for supporting my freedom to express my ideas. I appreciate it.
Although the very fact that you felt it necessary to voice that support
is, I feel, a telltale symptom of a corrupt society (looked toward Ottawa,
lately?) where free speech exists in a fragile and precarious state. It's
that rampant corruption which surrounds us that makes me wary of what
Nizkor is all about, or may yet become.

Orest Slepokura

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Tue Jan 14 03:12:44 PST 1997
Article: 92803 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nol.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.stealth.net!cdc2.cdc.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!ix.netcom.com!enews.sgi.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb170.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Nazilabeling
Date: 14 Jan 1997 05:01:54 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <19970111180700.NAA22617@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dvdthomas@aol.com (DvdThomas) wrote:

When Molly Ivins (described by Justin Raimondo, in his new book,
> Colin Powell and the Power Elite, as a "liberal columnist and known
> plagiarist") remarked, of Pat Buchanan's  speech at the 1992 Republican
> convention, "it sounded better in the original German," everyone
> instantly knew what she meant.  The casual slander was picked up by
> William Safire and others, and made the rounds.  A constant din from
> Hollywood and the major media has helped instruct us on what "German"
> really stands for.

==============================================================================

Last spring, a few weeks after Pat Buchanan won in New Hampshire, Larry
King was a guest on the David Letterman Show, and Larry King likewise
repeated the by-then old line about Buchanan's 1992 speech at the
Republican Convention sounding "better in the original German." Both King
and Letterman had a laugh and moved on to the next item. It showed just
how deeply engrained anti-German bigotry is in our society.

Another speech that was tinged with controversy was one made by the
crooked arbitrageur Ivan Boesky to a class of business graduates. I recall
reading a profile of Ivan Boesky in an issue of Vanity Fair back in the
late 1980s and how he'd told a group of business graduates that "Greed is
good." Imagine if the joke to subsequently have made the rounds--Boesky
being Jewish--that his speech to the graduates had "sounded better in the
original Yiddish."  

For starters, I doubt Larry King would have ever repeated a line like
that, or, had he done so, David Letterman would have guffawed as heartily
as he did over the Pat Buchanan put-down line. That's because here and now
anti-German bigotry is a respectable form of bigotry.


Orest Slepokura

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Jan 15 08:28:09 PST 1997
Article: 92973 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc157.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The curiously unresponsive Mr. Swiger
Date: 12 Jan 1997 06:42:54 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 106
Message-ID: 
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:

> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
> 
> # In 1943, the New York Times published the claims of
> # those who reported seeing two million Jews being
> # murdered in steam chambers at Treblinka.
> 
> There are also "testimonies" about people melting into
> puddles of "melted human flesh", and burning into a
> "fine layer of undulating grey ash" in Dresden, although
> they were in closed cellars and the fire didn't even
> touch them. We know that real events can create inaccurate
> testimonies.
> 
> So what now, schleppo? You're going to deny Dresden was
> bombed? Hey, fair is fair. If you claim "some inaccurate
> testimony about Treblinka ===> Treblinka is a hoax", then,
> well, it's only fair that you'll also claim "some
> inaccurate testimony about Dresden ===> Dresden is a hoax".
> 
> So, what happened in Treblinka, and what is the source
> of these erroneous reports?

[snip]

...

> What happened, then? What happened, schleppo, is that these
> folks (the members of the Polish underground), were spying
> on the camp from a distance. They were not given guided
> tours by the SS. They saw what they could see, and they
> extrapolated what they could not see. And, possibly, they
> were wrong.
> 
> When a diesel engine is run with a high fuel-air ratio,
> two things happen: one, its exhaust is more lethal, and
> two - the exhaust may be white. See "The Toxicity of
> Fumes from a Diesel Engine Under Four Different Running
> Conditions", by Pattle et al., British Journal of Industrial
> Medicine, 1957, Vol 14, p.  47-55, where both these
> phenomena are described. So, possibly, the SS in charge
> of the gassing ran the engine rich, and the Polish spies
> saw the white exhaust when the door to the gas chamber
> was opened, and concluded it was steam.
> 
> Remember, the technical details weren't known then. People
> didn't really know what these gas chambers were. It was
> a new thing. They had to evaluate this new thing, based
> on very partial information, that they had to collect while
> in constant fear of being captured by the Nazis.
> 
> So, they apparently made a mistake. I agree. The question
> is, so what?
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.

=============================================================================

Ken McVay, archly presuming to instruct Cliff Swiger, underscored the
primacy of what he called the "convergeance  of evidence" as being
the best way to learn what happened to the Jews of Europe during World War
II.

I provided the example of Treblinka, where eyewitness testimony of the
death of two or three million Jews in the "steam chambers" was reported by
eyewitnesses as having actually occurred, eyewitness testimony that was
later bolstered by an official report submitted by a Polish commission of
inquiry to the Nuremberg tribunal. 

Here was a convergence of evidence: eyewitness testimony backed by an
official state-sponsored report that homicidal "steam chambers" had indeed
been used to kill Jews at Treblinka; a report, moreover, submitted months
*after the war* had ended, in December 1945, during the Nuremberg trials.

It is a story that no reputable historian now claims was true. But notice
how flippantly Danny Keren summed up his article... 

His last paragraph reads: "So, they [i.e. the eyewitnesses] apparently
made a mistake. I agree. The question is, so what?"

So what, if the eyewitnesses got it wrong? So what,if the Polish
authorities got it wrong?  

So what, if a grotesque historical lie was concocted and made the basis of
criminal charges?

The "steaming" legend was later briefly revived in a widely circulated
book entitled *The Record: The Holocaust in History* and published by the
misnamed Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith in both 1979 and 1985.

Danny Keren: "...so what?"


Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************

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