From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov  7 06:13:10 PST 1996
Article: 78731 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agta81.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as a Historian
Date: 7 Nov 1996 03:13:17 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References: <3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU><3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <55iv7t$20ac$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net><3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU><3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <55iv7t$20ac$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>  <55p2cp$114q$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agta81.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30



> If you have read my posts on Irving, Mr. Slepokura (I will do you the dignity
> of addressing you in the polite form)

===============================================================================

Thank you for your courtesy, Mr. McFee. The nature of the "dialogue" in
a.r is often such that one forgets to be completely civil at times.
However, I meant no disrespect by addressing you as "McFee" in lieu of
"Mr. McFee." 

There.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:22 PST 1996
Article: 78881 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!wesley.videotron.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agta185.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as a Historian
Date: 4 Nov 1996 14:25:33 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 70
Message-ID: 
References: <3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU><3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <55iv7t$20ac$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agta185.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <55iv7t$20ac$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)2 Nov 1996 00:19:39 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>
> :>I've read several books very fine books by David Irving. But who is Rich
> :>Graves? What's he written? What's he done that's remotely newsworthy?
> :>
> :>NOTHING!
> 
> Mr. Graves has also not claimed he was a historian and then perverted the
> truth in his books.  Mr. Graves has not claimed he is objective, and then
> consorted with denier antisemitic scum.  Mr. Graves has also not been sued
> several times for libel.  Mr. Graves also has not been refused entry to
> several countries and deported from others for his dishonesty.  Mr. Graves has
> also not deliberately mistranslated dozens of WWII documents in an attempt to
> whitewash the Nazi murderers.  Yes, compared to Mr. Irving, I guess Mr. Graves
> has done nothing.  And I expect Mr. Graves likes it that way.

==============================================================================

I merely compared Rich Graves to David Irving, whose most recent book on
Goebbels had been reviewed - quite favourably, I might add  - in the NYT
Review of Books. 

You make the very same point I do, McFee, re Rich Graves. 

Namely, that compared to Irving, Graves had little to crow about; to use
your own words "Mr. Graves has done nothing." 

Graves insists he's 25 years old and, all things considered, has achieved
much for a piker that age. 

That may be; that may be...

But at 25, Irving had already published the justly celebrated The
Destruction of Dresdsen. A book that Kurt Vonnegut Jr. would mention very
favourably in his bestselling novel Slaughterhouse-Five.

On his own, though, I have to admit that Rich Graves is a hellava guy. One
of the best of the good guys. 

Certainly, he's VERY knowledgable about computers and the net. Who can
blame him for showing knowledge off now and again?

So unlike David Irving, come to think of it, who's an out-and-out Luddite
in the computer-and-net department (in addition to all the other naughty
things you listed, McFee).

==============================================================================





> 
> 
> 
> --
> Gord McFee
> I'll write no line before its time

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Fri Nov  8 10:58:23 PST 1996
Article: 78908 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc130.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as a Historian
Date: 5 Nov 1996 01:08:53 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU><3273DC09.30B@kaiwan.com> <556k1c$shk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <558fs1$2oh@Networking.Stanford.EDU>  <55iv7t$20ac$1@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>  <327E4298.1A9F@ix.netcom.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtc130.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <327E4298.1A9F@ix.netcom.com>, Rich Graves
 wrote:

> Orest Slepokura wrote:
> > 
> > I merely compared Rich Graves to David Irving, whose most recent book 
> > on Goebbels had been reviewed - quite favourably, I might add  - in 
> > the NYT Review of Books.
> 
> Huh? Are you talking about the same review that Mr. Irving claims was a 
> slanderous piece of garbage placed by The Jews?
> 
> -rich

==============================================================================

The main point was and remains, rich, that whatever DAVID IRVING says or
does is important. 

It matters. 

Big lobbies with very big budgets swing into action to counteract it, to
refute it or to counter-balance it. Or whatever.

As for you, you're just one of Ken McVay's little eleves, who is himself
an wee elf on the payroll of the rabbi or rabbis of this or that
synangogue. 

Or whatever. 

A nonentity, in any case. Like you.  Or me, for that matter.

Have a nice day, richie!

==================================================================================

Good, bad or indifferent, it;s IMPORTANT>

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Nov 10 06:54:06 PST 1996
Article: 79061 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtf142.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as historian
Date: 10 Nov 1996 00:44:24 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 100
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <55u71k$1sug$4@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtf142.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <55u71k$1sug$4@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>, gmcfee@ibm.net (Gord
McFee) wrote:

> In message  -
> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)7 Nov 1996 03:13:17 GMT writes:
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>> If you have read my posts on Irving, Mr. Slepokura (I will do you
the dignity
> :>> of addressing you in the polite form)
> :>
>
:>===============================================================================
> :>
> :>Thank you for your courtesy, Mr. McFee. The nature of the "dialogue" in
> :>a.r is often such that one forgets to be completely civil at times.
> :>However, I meant no disrespect by addressing you as "McFee" in lieu of
> :>"Mr. McFee." 
> 
> Fair ball.  BTW, do you have any comments on my comments?

===============================================================================

Dear Mr. McFee,

As a one time student of Russian and Soviet affairs I can point to a
certain phenomenon which may be evident in the David Irving case. 

It worked like this: during the Soviet era a good Russian writer came to
the stern attention of the Communist authorities when the ideas expressed
in his books didn't toe the official line. 

As a result, he was hounded and goaded and persecuted; he was threatened
with the Gulag, the lunatic asylum, and the prison dungeon. He became a
non-person, etc.

Such was the fate of many good writers including Sinyavsky, Amalrik,
Daniel, Sahkarov, and of course many, many others (even during the
so-called "Thaw," in the early 60s, when Khrushchev gave the nod for
Solzhenitsyn's <> to be published). 

Because of this, writers whose works were merely interesting became
"important" as a result of their rebelliousness, and the official
opposition to that very rebelliousness.

David Irving has published more than 30 books on WW 2 history, many of
them very outstanding (for example, his early book on Dresden, and his
most recent one on Goebbels). 

However, the persecution of David Irving by various governments and
agencies certainly conveys the impression that what Irving has to say is
most important. 

Quite apart from the great majority historians whose works may be called
either interesting or uninteresting, Irving's works must be considered as
being important, given the tremendous discomfort they seem to generate in
various circles and  among government agencies.
 
David Irving is one of the very few writers whose works nowadays are
important enough to have to be somehow suppressed and discredited, etc. In
fact, Irving stands as living proof the extraordinary hypocrisy of the
so-called enlightened West that defends Salman Rushie's right to publish
while doing all it can to gag and suppress and hinder his work.

There's an army of right-thinking apparatichiks and intellectual Lilliputs
out there who'd like to see this Gulliver-like historian tied down, gagged
and immobilized, but it ain't gonna happen. 

In fact, his very opponents will help him publicize his own cause. They
will help by generating tons of controversy and scandal. In so doing they
will draw the attention of the world.

You and Rich Graves and the other Nizkorites are David Irving's best
friends in that sense. 

You act as his latter-day Pravda and Izvestia and Tass News Agency.

So, by all means, keep up the good work, Mr. McFee. 

You are, if I may say so, a most diligent apparatchik. 

Quite on a par, I daresay, with the ubiquitous Mr. Graves.

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================




Mr. Gord McFee
> I'll write no line before its time

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Nov 13 06:28:57 PST 1996
Article: 79329 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtf136.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as historian
Date: 11 Nov 1996 18:14:44 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 111
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <55u71k$1sug$4@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>  <566krf$njr@atlas.uniserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtf136.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <566krf$njr@atlas.uniserve.com>, hostrov@uniserve.com (Hilary
Ostrov) wrote:

> In ,
> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> >David Irving has published more than 30 books on WW 2 history, many of
> >them very outstanding (for example, his early book on Dresden, and his
> >most recent one on Goebbels). 
> 
> Never heard of "quantity does not necessarily equal quality", Mr.
> Slepokura?!  In Irving's case, I believe one would do well to keep
> this in mind.
> 
> >However, the persecution of David Irving by various governments and
> >agencies certainly conveys the impression that what Irving has to say is
> >most important. 
> 
> Really?!  Do you not know the difference between persecution and
> prosecution, Mr. Slepokura?  Nonetheless, the impression you describe
> would only be inferred by those who - perhaps like yourself - choose
> to engage in blinkered wishful thinking.
> 
> [balance of Irving apologia snipped]
> 
> Readers interested in less blinkered perspectives on Irving may wish
> to peruse:
> 
> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david
> 
> hro
> =======================
> Hilary Ostrov
> e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
> http://users.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
> Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.org/

===============================================================================

ah, Ms. Ostrov,

Speaking of "blinkered perspectives" and the telltale "apologia"...

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
four-day visit to Israel in April, 1976, it naturally included a tour of
Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, where the late Yitzhak
Rabin and several other important Jewish dignitaries invited the onetime
Nazi collaborator and (of course!) implacable White supremacist to pay
homage to the victims of the Holocaust. 

Compared, say, to the recent vociferous protest by the Canadian Jewish
Congress and B'nai Brith Canada in the wake of the so-called "Roux Affair"
in Quebec, no less remarkable was the very calm equanimity both the
Israeli and diasporan Jews displayed toward the Vorster visit. 

As Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi noted in the Prologue ["Vorster in Jerusalem"]
to his 1987 study of Israeli-South African relations, The Israeli
Connection [Pantheon Books: New York, p. x]: 

"...the Vorster visit was just another state visit by a foreign leader. It
did not draw much attention. Most Israelis did not even remember his name,
and did not see anything unusual, much less surreal, in the scene [a Nazi
sympathizer, a White supremacist cordially invited to pay homage to
victims of the Holocaust at the Yad Vashem memorial]: Vorster was just
another visiting dignitary being treated to the usual routine." 

The crowning dénoument to the Vorster visit is described in Leslie and
Andrew Cockburn's 1991 bestseller Dangerous Liaison [Stoddart Publishing:
Toronto, pp. 299-300]: "The old Nazi sympathizer came away with bilateral
agreements for commercial, military, and nuclear cooperation that would
become the basis for future relations between the two countries." 

Of the nuclear cooperation between the Jewish state and the apartheid
regime, the former Mossad agent, Victor Ostrovsky, has written [By Way of
Deception, Stoddart Publishing: Toronto, 1990, p. 151: "...we helped South
Africa with its nuclear program. We supplied them with most of their
military equipment. We trained their special units." 

Victor Ostrovsky sums up Jewish collaboration with the racist regime this way: 
"We worked hand in hand with them for years." 

"...hand in hand..."  

The phrase resounds.

While it may be true, Ms. Ostrov, that I somehow lack some necessary
degree of intellectual finesse to distinguish between, as you put it,
"persecution and prosecution" in the Irving case, I note however that the
otherwise usually very sober Holocaust memorialists experienced absolutely
no difficulty at all in shrewdly evaluating and making good, practical use
of a Zionist-friendly old Nazi collaborator and unabashed White
supremacist when it suited their agenda.

So much for the blinkered outlook of realpolitik, eh? 

On second thought, considering its extravagantly convoluted circumstances,
such an oddly arranged episode might more aptly perhaps be served up as an
instance of, say, surrealpolitik...

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 14 08:01:16 PST 1996
Article: 79392 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.texoma.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agta245.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as historian
Date: 12 Nov 1996 03:45:05 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 129
Message-ID: 
References: <55u71k$1sug$4@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>  <566krf$njr@atlas.uniserve.com>  <5682f0$5b7@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agta245.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <5682f0$5b7@freenet-news.carleton.ca>,
ci882@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Rubin Friedman) wrote:



> >> Readers interested in less blinkered perspectives on [David] Irving
may wish
> >> to peruse:
> >> 
> >> http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david
> >> 
> >> hro
> >> =======================
> >> Hilary Ostrov
> >> e-mail: hostrov@uniserve.com
> >> http://users.uniserve.com/~hostrov/
> >> Co-Webmaster - The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.org/
> > 
> >
===============================================================================
> > 
> > ah, Ms. Ostrov,
> > 
> > Speaking of "blinkered perspectives" and the telltale "apologia"...
> > 
> > When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
> > four-day visit to Israel in April, 1976, it naturally included a tour of
> > Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, where the late Yitzhak
> > Rabin and several other important Jewish dignitaries invited the onetime
> > Nazi collaborator and (of course!) implacable White supremacist to pay
> > homage to the victims of the Holocaust. 
> 
> 
> This is called changing the subject to deal with a topic that the writer
> is surer of.  He appears less confident in "defending" Irving.   

===============================================================================

Slepokura:

I suppose I could have quoted the likes of Hugh Trevor-Roper and A.J.P.
Taylor saying how highly they regarded David Irving as an historian, etc.
etc. I do not have to be "confident" to defend David Irving.  

The subject in fact was that of "blinkered perspectives." I demonstrated
that while many Jews, for example, may denounce a David Irving for
allegedly being a "fascist" and "Nazi sympathizer" and a "racist" and
"white supremacist," some Jews--perhaps the very same ones, perhaps
others--can still manage to cordially put out an invitation to someone who
fits all four of those hoary labels and do lucrative business deals with
him, kick-started by a tour of Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial, where
in 1976 a delegation of high-ranking Jew officials invited John Vorster to
pay homage to the victims of the Holocaust.

Leslie and Andrew Cockburn's Dangerous Liaison[Stoddart Publishing:
Toronto, 1991, p. 299: 

"When Vorster laid a wreath at Yad Vashem, Israel's memorial to the
Holocaust, it made some observers exceptionally queasy. Vorster had served
nearly two years in jail during World War II for his Nazi collaboration.
This leader of an extreme racist regime had never acknowledged that the
Nazi doctrine was in any way distasteful."

=============================================================================== 

> > Compared, say, to the recent vociferous protest by the Canadian Jewish
> > Congress and B'nai Brith Canada in the wake of the so-called "Roux Affair"
> > in Quebec, no less remarkable was the very calm equanimity both the
> > Israeli and diasporan Jews displayed toward the Vorster visit. 
> > 
> 
> Again, "vociferous protest" is stretching it.  Both the CJC and B'nai
> Brith were concerned about Roux's statements about the past, because he
> seemed to justify and rationalize his actions rather than condemning them.
> Neither organization asked for his resignation.  However, both the PQ and
> the BQ used the opportunity to attack a federalist hoping to draw
> attention away from their own members with a bad record on minority rights.
> As so many with an agenda have done, however, Mr. Slepokura plays up the
> role of the Jewish organizations in the whole affair.
===============================================================================

Slepokura:

Canadian Jewish organizations were so incredibly tongue-tied and discreet
in relation to the Vorster visit that, by comparision, they sounded
positively shrill when it came to commenting on the so-called "Roux
Affair." That was my point. 

This, mind you, after a onetime Nazi collaborator and an implacable White
supremacist in the person of John Vorster had been invited by the late
Yitzhak Rabin to pay homage to the victims of the Holocaust...
===============================================================================

> As to the Vorster visit, no doubt many Israelis are asking questions about
> it.  Mr. Slepokura, however seems to have an obsession with this incident.
> Perhaps he should help Israelis who are asking questions about that visit
> and what followed.
===============================================================================

Slepokura:

I sincerely wish any Israelis who are curious about the telltale 1976
Vorster visit to Israel all the answers that they are looking for. Here's
what Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi revealed about the Vorster visit; perhaps it
will make some of them even more inquisitive [The Israeli Connection,
Pantheon Books: New York, 1987, p. x-xi]:

"It took a letter to the editor of Haaretz, Israel's New York Times, to
inform the public that Vorster had been a Nazi collaborator who, according
to Israeli law, should have been arrested and put on trial the minute he
set foot on Israeli soil. Instead, he landed at the Tel-Aviv airport, the
red carpet was rolled out, and Israel's prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin,
greeted him with a warm hug [sic]. There were plenty of welcoming articles
in the Israeli press."

Let us, to paraphrase Mark Twain, draw the curtain of charity over the
rest of this episode.

===============================================================================

 > "Love work; despise power for power's sake; and don't get too close to the
> government" - Ethics of the Fathers

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Nov 20 07:41:18 PST 1996
Article: 90681 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg130.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.palestine,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.asian.american,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.australian,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.south-africa
Subject: Re: If jews are asiatic, what is basis for Israel?
Date: 18 Nov 1996 14:11:56 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References:  <327CF0FC.63AA@columbia.edu>  <55m9o4$4uj@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net> <55vp2h$hs4@darla.visi.com> <563ofd$fvp@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> <563plr$kk2@news1.panix.com>  <565br3$95v@news1.panix.com> <3286380E.2496@pop.tiac.net>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg130.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:92674 talk.politics.mideast:83151 soc.culture.palestine:23593 soc.culture.african.american:130654 soc.culture.asian.american:88847 soc.culture.british:122831 soc.culture.australian:36488 soc.culture.german:90681 soc.culture.south-africa:7975

In article , lhl@tiac.net wrote:

> Reposting article removed by rogue canceller.  See
news.admin.net-abuse.announce
> for further information.
> 
> You are the one cursing and insulting.  Me and my gangsta brother have 
> advanced relevant facts.  It is a shame that you are more "disgusted" 
> with the words we use but have nothing but support for these wicked 
> actions of your brethren.  I would be "disgusted" - but I know it won't 
> matter.  I or my ancestors have never mistreated a single Jew.  You can 
> not make the same claim.  And just as your people pursue your enemies 
> through the ages we will pursue ours.
> 
> .. So why is this arguement happening? Do we
> > reall yneed to have an arguement over whom was more
> > oppressed...???
> > --
> > 
> That is not what we are arguing over.  When your racist brethren keep 
> their bloody hands out of our Black affairs then we can have peace.  
> Until then look forward to our chronicling of every Jewish crime toward 
> our Black people.  After all, we have a wonderful Jewish precedent in 
> your relentless pursuit of the Nazis.

==============================================================================

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April 1976, it naturally included a tour of Yad Vashem,
the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem, where the late Yitzhak Rabin and
other very high-ranking Jewish dignitaries invited the onetime Nazi
collaborator and implacable White supremacist to pay homage to the victims
of the Holocaust.

Compared, say, to the vociferous Jewish protest that would attend the
Andrew Young Affair (August, 1979), when it was disclosed that Ambassador
Young had had a private meeting with the PLO's UN observer, no less
remarkable was the calm equanimity both Israeli and Diasporan Jews
displayed toward the Vorster visit.

John Vorster remained 4 days in Israel and brokered all kinds of deals in
many different areas, including culture, trade, economics, weaponry, and,
of course, nuclear power, between the Jewish state and the apartheid
regime

=================================================================================.

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:48 PST 1996
Article: 80762 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!torn!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtd77.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Irving as historian
Date: 18 Nov 1996 02:55:00 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 92
Message-ID: 
References:  <19961116061400.BAA08759@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtd77.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <19961116061400.BAA08759@ladder01.news.aol.com>, ivanpv@aol.com
wrote:

>                    Once again, Mr. Orest Slepokura  slepokuo@cadvision.com
> in article    makes a
> number of excellent points.  The proponents of Holocaust orthodoxy present
> racism as a distinguishing feature of Holocaust revisionism (and include
> David Irving as a racist),  but, as Mr. Slepokura points out, racism looms
> large among the proponents of Holocaust orthodoxy.  In his posting, Mr.
> Slepokura describes Israel's collaboration with  racist South Africa. 
> More than this, however, the very  ethnic exclusivity of the Jewish
> state--a Jewish state that favors Jews and discriminates against non-Jews
> (See Israel Shahak's "Jewish History,  Jewish Religion")-- is  analogous
> to the white racism advocated by some right-wing proponents of Holocaust
> revisionism. Furthermore, while  racist Holocaust revisionists cannot go
> beyond  words,  Israel is able to advance its racist agenda by bombs and
> bullets.   
>           And what does Israeli policy have to do with the Holocaust?
> (Some defenders of Holocaust orthodoxy on this newsgroup manage to be
> unable to see any relationship between the two.)  The lesson of the
> Holocaust is used by Zionists to morally justify  their oppressive and
> belligerent actions.  (Tom Segev in "The Seventh Million" goes over this
> issue.)  Nothing that Israel has done (or could possibly do) to the
> Palestinians--massacres,  mass expulsions, denial of basic human rights
> --could ever equal the ultimate evil of the Holocaust.   Moreover, as the
> ultimate victims, Israeli Jews are morally justified in engaging  in any
> type of oppressive action under the guise of preventing another Holocaust,
> no matter how infinitely remote the possibility.. 
>               In sum, racism is hardly a distinguishing feature of
> Holocaust revisionism since it is inextricably connected to Holocaust
> orthodoxy.  The defenders of Holocaust orthodoxy-- at Nizkor, the
> Wiesenthal Museum of "Tolerance"-- may  imply that Holocaust study
> promotes the lessons of tolerance, compassion, democracy, freedom, and
> peace; in regard to Israel, however, the Holocaust is used to justify
> "pre-emptive" war, colonial occupation, flagrant inequality, suppression
> of other peoples, and the possession (and threat to use) nuclear weapons.
> From the American perspective, the worst part is not that Israel engages
> in brutal actions (which does not make it unique among nations), but that
> the United States must support Israeli policy, on the basis of a moral
> obligation stemming from the Holocaust. 

==============================================================================

Mr. Slepokura wishes to add several more points to what has been stated above. 

To begin with, the Jewish state's collaboration with the apartheid regime
of South Africa was kicked-started by an official to visit to Israel by
the South African prime minister, John Vorster. 

The latter had been interned during the Second World War as a very zealous
Nazi collaborator; he had been a "general" in the ultra-nationalist and
neo-fascist Ox-Wagon Guard; he was both an unabashed racist and an
implacable white supremacist. 

Nevertheless he was most cordially received in Israel by the late Yitzhak
Rabin and other very high-ranking Jewish leaders.

Indeed, he was invited to pay homage to the victims of the Holocaust at
Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. 

During his 4-day visit to Israel Vorster was able to broker many mutually
profitable deals betwen the his regime and the Zionist leadership,
including such areas as culture, business, trade, weaponry, and nuclear
power.

What is extremely telltale of course that there was absolutely no fuss and
no bother made over the fact that Jews had invited an old Nazi to pay
homage to the victims of the Holocaust.

Britain's one chief rabbi, Lord Immanuel Jakobovits, has described the
Holocaust as being a "big business industry" [The Jerusalem Post, Nov, 26,
1987] generating fat profits for film-makers, monument-builders, writers
and even rabbis. I agree with the Rabbi Jakobovits.

What kind of people unblushingly rush to reap fat profits off the
suffering of their own kind? 

To my mind, the Nizkorites are simply public relations ad-men (and -women)
for the Holocaust. They're doing for the Holocaust what the p.r. firm
Hill-Knowlton did for the Emir of Kuwait. The only difference being some
of them do it with a lot of vulgarity and very little finesse.

Orest Slepokura

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:49 PST 1996
Article: 80899 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb110.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Pressac as historian
Date: 21 Nov 1996 13:53:26 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 73
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References: <56havm$hqb@news3.gte.net> <56riag$nfa$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb110.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <56riag$nfa$1@gruvel.une.edu.au>, ibokor
 wrote:

> Subject: Pressac as historian
> From: * *, *@*.*
> Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 08:51:06 GMT
> In article <56havm$hqb@news3.gte.net> * *, *@*.* writes:
> >       He is a liscensed pharmacologist, isn't he?
> 
> Rimsky-Korsakov was a licenced medical practitioner.
> 
> Einstein was a clerk in the Patents Office.
> 
> So what?
> 
> 
> d.A.


==============================================================================

...and old Anton Chekhov was a doctor, but one hell of a playwright and
short story writer...

BTW, the Holocaust Lobby has been backing away from Pressac since 1995,
ever since he began publishing articles that put the number of deaths in
Auschwitz somewhere between 600,000 and 750,000. 

Pressac used to be the Klarsfelds' poster boy and, at the time when the
Spielberg movie Schindler's List was being publicized, the darling of the
media. 

For example, Newsweek profiled him in early 1994 as the man who had
delivered a resounding scientific/technical bang on the snout of
revisionism. 

Now, it seems all that was just a bit pre-mature. The Lobby's "champion,"
on second thought, wasn't even much of a contender.

In fact, as film-maker Claude Lanzmann had insisted all along, many are
beginning to wonder if Pressac hadn't been some kind of a closet
revisionist parading about in exterminationist clothing.

Others assume Pressac was merely an incompetent.

For some, however, Pressac is still very much the rising star he was a
couple years ago.

To my mind, Daniel Goldhagen is probably the brightest star in the
Holocaust business nowadays. 

It's a fickle business. 

But very much a business. 

No less an authority than Britain's onetime chief rabbi, Lord Jakobovits
said so [Jerusalem Post, Nov. 26, 1987].

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================




=============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:49 PST 1996
Article: 81401 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Flowers for David Irving
Date: 24 Nov 1996 00:39:43 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 64
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

Flowers for David Irving...

"David Irving knows more than anyone alive about the German side of the
Second World War. He discovers archives unknown to official historians and

turns their contents into densely footnoted narratives that consistently 
provoke controversy."
Professor John Keegan, The Daily Telegraph 


"The fact is that [Irving] knows more about National Socialism than most 
professional scholars in his field, and students of the years 1933-1945 
owe more than they are always willing to admit to his energy as a 
researcher and to the scope and vigor of his publications." 
Gordon A. Craig, The New York Review of Books 


"Irving has an extraordinary talent for digging up otherwise obscure Nazi
sources. He does have a real knack of penetrating the 'mind' of Nazism." 
Professor Norman Stone, The New Statesman 


"David Irving, is a remarkable researcher, a brilliant discoverer of 
documents, and a
skillful writer...."
Professor Hugh Trevor Roper, The Sunday Telegraph. 


"David Irving is a patient researcher of unrivaled industry and success." 
Professor A. J. P. Taylor, The Observer. 


"Whatever [Goebbels] merits or faults, you have been deprived of the right 
to judge for yourself....It seems merely to be timidity." 
Richard Cohen , New York Post


YOU CAN'T BUY GOEBBELS: Mastermind of the Third Reich at your local 
bookstore.


You'll be told that Goebbels is not censored in America----you just can't 
buy it!

                                  BUT....

You can read the introduction to Goebbels FREE on the World Wide Web, 

< http://www.codoh.com >

OR: 

If you want to own your own copy of Goebbels, you may order it from: 
Bradley R. Smith PO Box 3267 Visalia CA 93278 $49.95, plus $3 ($10
foreign) for shipping and handling.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:50 PST 1996
Article: 81411 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing
Date: 24 Nov 1996 00:57:50 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 83
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

                   Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing

TORONTO (CP) - No scientific reports prove Jews were exterminated in Nazi
gas chambers, a Holocaust scholar conceded Thursday at the trial of Ernst
Zundel.

But numerous historical documents show that Jews were killed during the
Second World War, said Raul Hilberg, a University of Vermont political
science professor.

And even though German war documents contain no mention of killing Jews,
euphemisms for such death such as 'resettlement' and 'special treatment'
were used so commonly that Heinrich Himmler, head of the Gestapo,
requested substitute phrases, Hilberg added.

Hilberg, who has spent 36 years studying the Holocaust and the subsequent
Nuremberg trials of war criminals, testified earlier for the Crown that
five million [sic] Jews were killed during the war.

Zundel, 46, a West German citizen living in Toronto, is charged with two
counts of publishing statements that are known to be false and likely to
cause injury or mischief to the public interest of maintaining social and
religious tolerance.

Two of his publications--one called Did Six Million Really Die?--postulate
that the Holocaust was a hoax to vilify Germans and exact compensation
payments from them.

"Can you give me one scientific report that shows the existence of gas
chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory?" defence counsel Doug
Christie asked Hilberg in a day-long rapid fire of cross-examination.

"I am at a loss," Hilberg replied.

"You are (at a loss) because you can't," Christie said.

The witness countered that there are aerial photographs of concentration
camps, examples of ruined or reconstructed gas chambers, German industrial
documents describing the lethal nature of various gases and filters for
gas masks were found at the camps.

Hilberg agreed with Christie there are no autopsy reports indicating even
a single person died from exposure to poisonous gas in chambers.

He has uncovered, however, a written request by a German scientist for
some human subjects he wanted to kill by gassing in order to cut off their
heads for anatomical research.

"In tens of thousands of [Nazi] documents, people were 'resettled' or 'the
Jewish problem was solved' but the word killing was used only for dogs,
not in reference to annihilation of Jews," Hilberg said.

Hilberg quoted from his book The Destruction of European Jews a message to
Himmler from a Nazi official named Greiser stating that the "special
treatment" of 100,000 Jews at a concentration camp would be complete in
two to three months. Greiser then asked permission to have 35,000
tubercular Poles transferred to the camp for special treatment so they
wouldn't infect Germans.

When Christie questioned Hilberg's interpretation of the last request, an
exasperated Hilberg replied: "This was not a hospital."

Zundel, a balding, heavy-set man, took extensive notes from the prisoner's
box during the day.

Hilberg told the district court jury of eight men and two women that
Zundel's published account of some details of the Nuremberg war trials,
which lasted from 1946 to 1949, was "fanciful."

His exhaustive research has not uncovered any evidence to support Zundel's
supposition that Nazi officials were tortured to exact untrue statements
implicating German war criminals, he said.

Christie introduced numerous accounts by German officers and a report by
two American judges sent to invstigate allegations of torture of German
prisoners to back Zundel's claim that in one case, 139 prisoners were
flogged until they bled and their genitals were trampled upon.

[end of article]
                                        The Sault Star, p. A11
                                           January 18, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:51 PST 1996
Article: 81412 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Killer's Deed, A People's Hatred
Date: 24 Nov 1996 00:58:36 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 104
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

  JERUSALEM: THE SUNDAY NEW YORK TIMES, MARCH 6, 1994, by YOUSSEF M. IBRAHIM

               Palestinians See a People's Hatred in a Killer's Deed

If Yitzhak Rabin and other Israeli leaders have been hoping that their
denunciations of the massacre of Muslims in Hebron will persuade
Palestinians that this was the work of an isolated and deranged zealot
whom Israelis want to spit out of their society, they can expect to be
disappointed.

The rage being expressed by Palestinians is not just at Baruch Goldstein,
or at the settlers' movement alone. In it is woven a conviction most
Israelis would reject: that Israel--all of it--was responsible for the
acts of Dr. Goldstein when he opened fire in an ancient mosque on Feb. 26
[1994], killing dozens of Arabs at prayer. Israelis, these Palestinians
feel, have routinely shown or tolerated bigoted attitudes toward Arabs,
and have let cruelty go unpunished. And the talks between Israel and the
Palestine Liberation Organization have done little to dispel the sense of
grievance and of powerlessness before Israel's strength.

Last week, Prime Minister Rabin repudiated Dr. Goldstein in the harshest
terms. But the words did not resound half as loud in Arab villages as did
Mr. Rabin's offer of a cabinet post to Gen. Rafael Eitan, whose party he
wants in his coalition. Arabs remember the general's prediction, in a 1983
parliamentary question and answer session, that Palestinians would react
to Israeli settlements by scurrying around like "drugged cockroaches in a
bottle."

Long memory is a key to understanding the Palestinian conviction that Dr.
Goldstein acted on impulses born in the heart of Israel, not in some alien
splinter group. For all his recent efforts to come to terms with Yasir
Arafat, Mr. Rabin himself is still remembered as the Defence Minister who,
in 1988, called for crushing the then-new Palestinian uprising with
"forcce, might, beatings."  Many soldiers took him literally, breaking
Palestinians' bones until the policy was rescinded in the face of
international revulsion.

Over the years of occupation, Palestinians have focused on what they see
as the deeply demeaning attitude many Israeli Jews hold toward them.
Israeli officials like General Eitan, and militant rightists, use
derogatory, even racist, language about Palestinans, and most Israelis
have ignored Arab objections. In the last week, though, public
introspection has begun in Israel. Many Jews now say they cannot both
foster contempt for Arabs and make peace with them.

In an article titled "Confessions of a Co-conspirator" in the Jerusalem
Post on Friday, Naftali Greenwood said everyday injustices toward Arabs
are hardly noticed in Israeli society. The writer is from Kiryat Arba,
where Dr. Goldstein lived. He denounced "ordained rabbis and respected
professionals" who, he wrote, "routinely characterize Arabs, Americans and
secular or left-leaning Israeli Jews as demons or subhumans." A
Palestinian in Jericho also made the point: "Why when they kill us they
are crazy, and when we kill them we are terrorists?"

The language of hate and prejudice has long characterized Arab-Israeli
relations on both sides. Some Arab schools teach that Jews are dishonest
and murderous. Preachers in many Islamic lands routinely call for the
murder of Jews and Christians. And after 45 years of conflict, a great
many Israelis grow up seeing Arabs as stereotypes from their worst
nightmares--dirty, lying and treacherous.

Can this be changed? Most Israelis would cringe at the notion that Dr.
Goldstein's viewpoint is akin to their own. But Palestinians say there are
few signs of encouragement in Israel's actions--notably the military rule,
curfew, arbitrary arrests and neglect of social services in the occupied
territories. Israeli Arabs say they too encounter humiliation.

"The Jewish population not only deprives Israeli Arabs of resources  and
benefits, but has come to regard them as second-class citizens, a
community to which the accepted codes of Israeli democracy do not apply,"
wrote Walid Sadek, a Deputy Health Minister who is one of the few Arabs in
the Israeli Government, in another article in the Jerusalem Post.

The security measures slapped on the nearly two million Arabs in the
occupied territories after rioting broke out in the wake of the massacre
are a new sore point. Palestinians hear this message: that the victims of
the massacre, not the perpetrators, are being punished. Even though a few
Jewish settlers were deprived of their guns, most settlers remained free
to roam about armed. Israel did release some Arab prisoners. It did not
yield to P.L.O. demands to bargain now on the fate of the settlements.

Even an ofer of compensation to families of the massacre victims--the
first such gesture toward Arab victims of Jewish violence--left
Palestinians with a sour feeling. Israeli officials noted that living
standards of Arabs in the territories are below those of Jews, and
therefore they will be paid less than Jews  who are victims of Arab
terror.

As corrosive as anything, at least 25 Palestinians have been shot dead by
Israeli army soldiers during unreest since the massacre took place Feb.
25.

"Nothing has changed," said Ezzedin Jihad al-Yassini, a day worker from
Jerusalem whose 15-year-old son was one of 21 Palestinians killed by
Israeli police gunfire during unrest on the sacred Haram al Sharif in
October 1990. Sitting beneath a picture of his son and a nephew who was
killed in 1989 in a clash with Israeli soldiers, Mr. Yassini dismissed all
talk of Jewish anguish over the treatment of Palestinians.

"That so-called Jewish debate is a conversation among Jews, not about
Palestinians," he said. "Those who died could have been dogs, birds,
chickens, or anything. It is not our lives or our right to live they are
concerned about. It is what the violence is doing to them and their image
which concerns them."


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:52 PST 1996
Article: 81415 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It's a singular event
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:17:45 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

Abraham H. Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation League of
B'nai B'rith (New York), writing in ADL On the Frontline [January 1994, p.
2], said:

"...The Holocaust is something different. It is a singular event. It is
not simply one example of genocide but a near successful attempt on the
life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God Himself. It is an event
that is the antithesis of Creation as recorded in the Bible; and like its
direct opposite, which is relived weekly with the Sabbath and yearly with
the Torah, it must be remembered from generation to generation."

_____________________________________________________________________________


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:52 PST 1996
Article: 81421 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Taint of Holocaust Revisionism: A Zionist Tool
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:19:51 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 55
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30


                      Bogus Charges of Holocaust Revisionism
                       The Case of Congressman Paul Findley


Former Illinois Congressman, Paul Findley, a 22-year veteran in the U.S.
House of Representatives, was defeated in his last election bid in 1982
following an intense and inflammatory campaign against him by various
pro-Israel groups. They regarded Findley as highly critical of Israel's
policies.

Two of Findley's fellow politicians were also defeated for re-election on
the same grounds: Senator Charles Percy and Senator Adlai Stevenson III. 

Incensed by the power of the forces arrayed against him, Findlay wrote a
book showing the tactics employed to the Israeli lobby and its army of
agents of influence for Israel. 

Entitled _They Dare to Speak Out_ [Lawrence Hill & Company, Publishers,
Inc., Westport, Connecticut, 1985] the book is in no way anti-Semitic or
hateful, as was later alleged. It was even on the bestseller list for
several weeks.

This, however, did not keep the Anti-Defamation League, through its
Nebraska regional director, Robert Wolfson, from conducting a blatant
defamation of the book and its author.

A local activisit, William A. Curry of Atkinson, NB, mailed out several
thousand copies to Nebraska professionals, such as "secondary-school
teachers, university professors and attorneys." In a statement, Wolfson
said that Findley's book "is a work of Holocaust revisionism seeking to
spread the claim that the Nazi slaughter of Jews was a hoax."

Frederick Cassman, chairman of the Omaha ADL chapter, added, "Although
purporting to criticize the 'Israel Lobby,' they are actually distributing
plainly anti-Semitic material."

_They Dare to Speak Out_ makes absolutely no such claim. Findley does not
support, not does he even mention any form of "Holocaust revisionism" in
his book. 

Wolfson's claim was an absolute, outright lie.

Nevertheless, his comments, as an official of a major Jewish "human
rights" organization were widely reported in the press and given credence.

"Politics, as a practice, whatever its professions, has always been the
systematic organization of hatreds" [Henry Brooks Adams].

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:53 PST 1996
Article: 81422 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Fatal Obsession
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:17:10 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30


Rabbi Ephraim Buchwald, writing in The Los Angeles Times ["The Holocaust
is Killing America's Jews," April 28, 1992], said:

"There is almost nothing more sacred or more sensitive for Jews living in
the generation after the Holocaust than the memory of the six million
martyrs of the Nazi genocide...Now that 'revisionists,' who seek to deny
the Holocaust, have become even more brazen, sensitive Jews are reacting
with even great passion.

"But obsession with the Holocaust is exacting a great price. It is killing
America's Jews...Jews as a group are drifting away from their
religion...Unless there will be, within the very near future, a dramatic
turnaround in the patterns of Jewish assimilation and intermarriage, we
are probably witnessing the last generation of Jewish life in America as
we know it.

"...Right now the priority seems to be building Holocaust memorials. More
than $500 million has already been pledged or spent to build 19 Holocaust
memorials and 36 research centers or libraries in America. Some cities,
like Los Angeles, have two or three competing Holocaust memorials...

"There is a Holocaust taking place in America right now. We can't hear it,
because there are no barking dogs...We can't smell it because there are no
gas chambers. But the net result is exactly the same."

 ===================================== END ==================================

_____________________________________________________________________________


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:54 PST 1996
Article: 81423 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.idt.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: A Survivor's Tale
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:16:11 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

The August 5, 1993, edition of the English-language daily The Montreal
Gazette tells the remarkable story of Moshe Peer.

It reads (in part):

"As an 11-year-old boy held captive at the Bergen-Belsen concentration
camp   during World War II, Moshe Peer was sent to the gas chamber at
least six times [sic].

"Each time he survived, watching the horror as many of the women and
children gassed with him collapsed and died.

"To this day, Peer doesn't know how he was able to survive.

"'Maybe children resist better, I don't know,' he said in an interview
last week."

Do "children resist better"? I doubt it.

What I don't know is how Peer could have survived the Bergen-Belsen gas
chamber even once, let alone a total of "six times," given that the
official storyline is that at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, as
with Dachau and Buchenwald, there were no homicidal gas chambers
established here.

The article also states that Peer has spent "the last 19 years writing a
first-person account of the horror he witnessed at Bergen-Belsen." I add
this quote to make it clear that it was Bergen-Belsen that Peer was
speaking of and not a different concentration camp.

    ================================== END ================================


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:55 PST 1996
Article: 81426 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman'...
Date: 24 Nov 1996 00:59:15 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 106
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

           Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman,' publishing trial told

One of the world's leading authorities on the Holocaust has quoted
selectively and extensively a German SS officer who was obviously a
madman, the defence at the Ernst Zundel trial has alleged.

Among the claims sworn to by the Nazi, who ultimately hanged himself while
awaiting trial for war crimes, was a statement that 25 million Jews were
killed in two small extermination camps and that 700 to 800 people could
be crammed into a 25-square metre gas chamber.

"Don't you think it reflects on an author that some statements are
absolutely ridiculous?" defence counsel Douglas Christie asked Raul
Hilberg, a professor at the University of Vermont who has spent more than
35 years studying the Holocaust.

Mr. Zundel is charged with two counts of publishing false news which
caused or was likely to cause racial or social intolerance. His articles
question the Holocaust and postulate an international conspiracy of
Communists, Zionists, bankers and secret societies. The Crown must prove
Mr. Zundel knew the information was false.

Professor Hilberg agreed that Obersturmbanfuehrer Kurt Gerstein, the SS
officer, was most unreliable on some topics covered in sworn affidavits.
But Prof. Hilberg defended his decision to quote the officer on other
subjects in a book he wrote on the Holocaust.

Obersturmbanfuehrer Gerstein was one of the few people who could provide
information about gas chambers at the Treblinka and Belzec camps in
Poland, Prof. Hilberg explained.

The officer said he was responsible for dispensing poison to several camps
in Poland to be used to kill internees.

"Beyond that, I realized, of course, what kind of person he was and I did
not rely on any statements I regarded as imaginative or incredible," the
witness said. "I think he was given to great excitability. What can you
say?"

"You could say he was crazy," Mr. Christie said crisply. The lawyer
accused Prof. Hilberg of quoting only those statements from the "madman"
which bolstered conventional ideas on the Holocaust.

"I'm not making diagnoses here," Prof. Hilberg replied. "I would not
characterize him as totlally rational, but I'm not here making those kinds
of judgments."

Prof. Hilberg has been accepted as an expert witness. He has testified
that about five million [sic] Jews were exterminated by the Nazis.

Yesterday, he said some of the SS officer's claims were outrageous, while
others, such as the number of people who could fit into a chamber
warranted skepticism.

He said it was intellectually sound to use the portions which withstood
scrutiny or seemed plausible, while making no mention of the outlandish
statements. "For my purposes, it sufficed that there were gas chambers,"
he said.

Mr. Christie maintained that if Prof. Hilberg can quote selectively with
impunity, then his client is not guilty of any sin either.

For most of the morning session, Mr. Christie engaged in a grim battle
over what really tok place during the last days of the Warsaw ghetto
uprising and whether documents exist to show Adolf Hitler actually ordered
the extermination of the Jews.

Prof. Hilberg said nobody has to believe or try to verify there was such
an order just because he concludes in his book there was.

Mr. Christie then asked if that statement could not also apply to the
articles Mr. Zundel is charged with publishing.

"No, it is not the same," Prof. Hilberg said.

The argument was typical of the strenuous going-over Prof. Hilberg's
writings and previous testimony are getting at the hands of Mr. Christie.
The lawyer demands precise sources for everything and then frequently
criticizes those.

One protracted argument concerned the use of the word "resettle" in Nazi
reports and whether it was a euphemism for annihilate, as Prof. Hilberg
fiercely maintained.

The word used was relocate," Mr. Christie said at one point. "To me that
doesn't mean annihilate."

"That's the difference between you and me," the witness replied hotly.
"I've read thousands of documents. I know what it means in the context."

"You alone understand, right?" Mr. Christie asked sarcastically.

Later, Mr. Christie questioned whether crematoria Prof. Hilberg saw on a
recent trip to Poland were really as the Germans left them.

"They were as you've been told the Germans left them, right?" he asked.

"I was not present when these buildings were blown up," Prof. Hilberg said
in exasperation.



                                           Kirk Makin
                              The Globe and Mail, January 17, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:55 PST 1996
Article: 81429 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The Law of Diminishing Returns Returns
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:01:30 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 17
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

                                 Art of Politics

With increasing frequency, reports The New York Times, candidates from
both political parties around the United States have used comparisons to
Nazis, Nazi behaviour and the Holocaust to call attention to some
percieved political act of horror. For instance, Idhao's state
superintendent of education compared her first six weeks in office to Anne
Frank's persecution by the Nazis. "The danger is that [hyperbole] exhausts
the capacity of language to express outrage," says Kathleen Hall Jamieson,
dean of the Annenberg School for Communications in Pennsylvania. "When
someone actually does act like Hitler now, we don't have the words any
more."

[end of article]

                                              The Toronto Globe and Mail
                                                   October 25, 1995


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:56 PST 1996
Article: 81430 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!news.sgi.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Back to the Future: Vorster in Jerusalem
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:02:40 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 78
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30



From: Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi's The Israeli Connection [Random House:
Toronto, 1987, pp. ix-xi]

                      PROLOGUE: Vorster in Jerusalem, 1976

...I was sitting in my apartment in Haifa, watching the evening news on
Israeli television. There were no particularly noteworthy events that day,
and viewers were being treated to a series of segments from here and there
showing a variety of fairly routine happenings. I don't remember any of
the others, but there was one segment I immediately responded to, and that
became, to me at least, an important event. In it Balthazar Johannes
(John) Vorster, the prime minister of the Republic of South Africa, was
shown on the first day of his official visit in Israel. And what Israeli
television broadcast to its viewers that night were images of Mr. Vorster
as he visited Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem.

A visit to Yad Vashem is the opening ritual of every state visit to
Israel--usually the first stop en route from the airport to a hotel in
Jerusalem. The aim of this ritual is to express Israel's relation to the
Holocaust, to present the country as the haven for survivors and as the
answer to the insecurity of Jewish existence in the Diaspora. A second aim
is to induce the appropriate feelings of guilt in the visitor. So, when
John Vorster was taken to the Yad Vashem memorial hall, he was being
treated just like any other visitor.

What struck me as I watched Vorster on television was the surreal nature
of the scene. The tactlessness of the Israeli Foreign Office, which had
invited a known Nazi collaborator to a memorial to the victims of Nazism,
and then subjected him to a lecture on the Nazis was astounding. It was
obvious that Vorster could have given a better lecture himself, but his
reaction was proper and diplomatic. He listened patiently and nodded in
all the right places, and then signed his name in the visitors' book.

What was the purpose of showing this on television? Why was that scene
chosen to illustrate the first day of the Vorster visit? Why not something
else? I started thinking, and I could not escape the conclusion that this
bizarre incident was telling me something about Israel. It wasn't just its
insensitivity. It was a wild sense of staging thatb turned the strange
into the familiar. The scene was indeed strange, but its truth was
haunting. And then I got the message: Vorster in the Holocaust memorial!
What an image of Israel! Maybe it was the true image of Israel, staged for
our benefit by a director of rare comic genius. Here was an old Nazi
sympathizer showing more tact than his hosts, and at the same time
exposing them to ridicule and criticism. Even if the manifold meanings of
this work of art were lost on most of the viewers, no real film director
searching for an anti-Israel scene could have come up with a better one
than this.

For most Israelis, the Vorster visit was just another state visit by a
foreign leader. It did not draw much attention. Most Israelis did not even
remember his name, and did not see anything unusual, much less surreal, in
the scene: Vorster was just another visiting dignitary being treated to
the usual routine. He was described by most of the Israeli press as a
deeply religious man on a personal pilgrimage to the Holy Land, as well as
a sincere friend of Israel. Both characterizations might have been true,
but they hardly gave readers a well-rounded picture of John Vorster as a
political leader. It took a letter to the editor of Haaretz, Israel's New
York Times, to inform the public that Vorster had been a Nazi collaborator
who, according to Israeli law, should have been arrested and put on trial
the minute he set foot on Israeli soil. Instead, he landed at the Tel-Aviv
airport, the red carpet was rolled out, and Israel's prime minister,
Yitzhak Rabin, greeted him with a warm hug. There were plenty of welcoming
articles in the Israeli press. The only exceptions to the chorus were two
of Israel's distinguished radical journalists, Yuri Avneri and Amnon
Kapeliouk.

As I watched the passing shadows on the television screen, I felt I had
stumbled upon a deeply symbolic image expressive of the nature of the
State of Israel. Some may find this an unjustified exaggeration or a
groundless accusation: the scene by itself, some would say, might have
been mere coincidence. But was it, really? Was this surreal image only a
fleeting cloud in the blue skies of Zionist history, or was it bone of its
bone, flesh of its flesh?  Was it an aberration, a detour from the main
road, or was it a symptom of something deeper and more significant?... 

[end of excerpt]


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:57 PST 1996
Article: 81431 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!news.magicnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-atl-21.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb115.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: It's a sad fact
Date: 24 Nov 1996 00:59:51 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 11
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb115.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

Leon Wieseltier, the literary editor of The New Republic, writing in its
May 3, 1993, issue [p. 20], wrote:

"'It's a sad fact," said the principal philanthropist of the grotesque
Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, 'that Israel and Jewish education
and all the other familiar buzzwords no longer seem to rally Jews behind
the community. The Holocaust, though, works every time.' His candour was
refreshing, even if it was obscene. On the subject of the extermination of
the Jews of Europe, the Jews of America are altogether too noisy."

_____________________________________________________________________________


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:57 PST 1996
Article: 81652 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!news.nstn.ca!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!mr.net!news.sgi.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Canada: Our Own Secret Police
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:14:36 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 110
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30


'We're the political police'

A federal judge finds an unacceptable political bias 
in Canada's security establishment

by Tom McFeely [Alberta Report - Sept. 2, 1996]

What do Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany and contemporary Canada have in
common? A covert intelligence service that meddles in domestic politics.
That, at least, is the impression left by the still murky Heritage Front
Affair, in which a paid informer for the Canadian Security Intelligence
Service (CSIS) tried to discredit the Reform Party of Canada by linking it
to white supremacists. The RPC insists that reviews by the Security
Intelligence Review Committee (SIRC) and the Commons standing committee on
justice and legal affairs have only whitewashed CSIS misconduct. Those
concerns were reinforced on August 1, when Federal Court Justice Darrel
Heald ruled that a SIRC investigation regarding a citizenship application
by Toronto Holocaust-denier Ernst Zundel was invalid because SIRC's 1994
report on the Heritage Front affair manifested a bias against him.

Mr. Justice Heald's decision did not deal directly with the validity of
numerous disparaging references SIRC made characterizing Mr. Zundel as a
"publisher of hate literature" and suggesting he was an "aggressive
racist." But he ruled that the very fact that SIRC had made the statements
demonstrated bias and rendered it unfit to conduct an impartial review of
whether Mr. Zundel qualifies as "a threat to the security of Canada." 
(Mr. Zundel, a German native, has lived in Canada since 1958.) Under
Section 19 of the Citizenship Act, SIRC is required to conduct such a
review whenever Ottawa seeks to deny a citizenship apllication for
security reasons.

This month's ruling was just the latest in a long series of unsuccessful
legal actions against Mr. Zundel. He was twice acquitted of publishing
"false news" under a section of the Criminal Code that the Supreme Court
eventually declared unconstitutional. And while Ottawa could appeal Mr.
Justice Heald's decision, Mr. Zundel's lawyer Doug Christie says that is
unlikely. "It's so clear there is a bias in the SIRC report," he says,
"that there is obviously no way they can sit impartially."

Mr. Justice Heald's decision redirected attention to the intelligence
community's questionable conduct in the Heritage Front affair. In 1994,
allegations surfaced that CSIS agent Grant Bristow had infiltrated the
right-wing Heritage Front group and subsequently tried to link it with the
Reform Party of Canada.  Mr. Bristow, a white supremacist who helped found
the Heritage Front, reportedly received up to $60,000 annually from CSIS
1989 onward for supplying intelligence.

Among the debatable activities undertaken by Mr. Bristow while on the CSIS
payroll was a series of efforts to infiltrate the RPC by volunteering
along with other Heritage Front members to supply security for Reform
leader Preston Manning's Ontario tours in 1991 and 1992. Reform officials
did not know the individuals belonged to the Heritage Front.

CSIS' critics charge that the security agency may itself have been
facilitating the Heritage Front's activities, since  Mr. Bristow was the
group's main administrator and appeared to pursue its goals with
considerable gusto. As well, Reform MPs argue that the blind eye CSIS
turned towards Mr. Bristow's political activities hints at a desire by the
intelligence community to damage the Reform Party. Further fuelling that
suspicion is that CSIS is known to have opened a Preston Manning File.
CSIS officials have claimed that the file was mislabelled and actually
concerned an investigation of a tip that the South African government may
have improperly funded Mr. Manning's campaign to unseat Joe Clark in the
1988 general election.

Reformers remain unsatisfied by both the 1994 SIRC report and by this
June's report by the Commons justice committee. Both reports contended
CSIS' actions were mostly proper and recommended only minor changes to
operational procedures. Reform MP Val Meredith appended a dissenting
report to the parliamentary committee's findings in which she documents in
exhaustive detail the repeated flip-flops and contradictory evidence given
by CSIS and SIRC officials while trying to explain away the Manning file. 
"It is clear to the Reform Party that SIRC's Heritage  Front Affair Report
is a complete whitewash," Ms. Meredith charges. Furthermore, the
complacent attitude of Liberal MPs regarding the affair suggests "that
this government is not interested in holding the bureaucracy accountable."
Ms. Meredith's dissent concludes by recommending that the
patronage-appointed SIRC be disbanded and its oversight role given to
Parliament.

Still more evidence of the political bent of CSIS and SIRC has accumulated
in recent months. In May, SIRC member Rosemary Brown, former B.C. NDP MLA
and federal leadership candidate, appointed to the committee in 1993 by
the Mulroney Tories, told the parliamentary review committee, "It would be
a serious mistake for CSIS, SIRC, or, for that matter, the Canadian public
to believe the right wing is in decline or does not constitute a threat to
this country."

CSIS appears to be taking Ms. Brown's advice to heart. Businessman Michael
Rothe videotaped an encounter last February with a man and a woman who
visited his Kitchener, Ont., electronics store and identified themselves
as CSIS agents. Mr. Rothe has earlier organized meetings for revisionist
British historian David Irving. In the course of questioning Mr. Rothe
about his involvement in right-wing politics, the male agent declared,
"We're the political police. Angela and I are from the counter-terrorism
branch." Paul Fromm, research director for the Canadian Association for
Free Expression, has viewed Mr. Rothe's videotape. He says ut is unclear
exactly what the pair were after, but he regards the entire tenor of the
interview as unacceptable. Comments Mr. Fromm: "I think CSIS has a lot to
answer for."

=================================END================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:58 PST 1996
Article: 81728 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!in1.nntp.cais.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc133.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Canada: Our Own Secret Police
Date: 25 Nov 1996 04:09:02 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 37
Message-ID: 
References:  <32978E73.34F8@rio.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtc133.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <32978E73.34F8@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

> Chuck wrote:
> 
> Good at digging up old newspaper articles. Kind of biased though. 
> Proves nothing, except you gotta get rid of some of that paper so you 
> can sleep better.
> 
> Neater around the house too.
> 
> Chuck
==============================================================================


by Tom McFeely [Alberta Report - Sept. 2, 1996]

No. 

The article cited was not an "old newspaper" article, but in fact a fairly
recent *magazine* article. 

The Alberta Report magazine is a weekly magazine which, along with its
sister publications Western Report and British Columbia Report, is very
popular in Western Canada, especially among small-C conservatives. "Kind
of biased," you would say.

I have my copies of Alberta Report *neatly* stacked on a shelf in my study.


==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Nov 25 06:30:59 PST 1996
Article: 81813 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg79.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing
Date: 25 Nov 1996 13:43:19 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 31
Message-ID: 
References:  <57beb0$9ds@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg79.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <57beb0$9ds@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article ,
> Orest Slepokura  wrote:
> >                   Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing
Without that
> scientific report, for all we know there were a lot of personal quarrels
> that [D-Day] day which were settled by taking advantage of the cover
provided by
> the invasion. 
> 
>     
===============================================================================

That was very good, Mr. Stein. It humoured me and made me think. 

Keep it up. I mean it! 

Alt.revisionism may yet turn into a nice neighbourhood to come by and visit.

In the meantine it could stand a "beautification" project.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:46 PST 1996
Article: 81860 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg105.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: With Complete Impunity: Israeli War Crimes
Date: 24 Nov 1996 01:13:06 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 184
Message-ID: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg105.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30


An Israeli general reopens old wounds 
with revelations about the massacre of Egyptian PoWs

by Martin Cohn

The Toronto Star [October 8, 1995]

JERUSALEM - Even in peace, Egypt and Israel are at war again, fighting
over the bitter legacy of their past battles.

Twenty-years after their last war, Cairo newspapers have printed artists'
illustrations of Israeli soldiers killing Egyptian soldiers of war in cold
blood. Screaming headlines attacked the "savage and inhuman behavior of
Israel."

The press was merely taking its cue from a retired Israeli general, who
admitted executing 49 captured Egyptian soldiers during the 1956 Sinai
campaign - and said he would do it again.

The provocative newspaper images have whipped up a new round of
anti-Israel sentiment in Egypt, giving fresh ammunition to Islamic and
nationalist groups still opposed to peace between the two countries. 

Egypt's influential doctors' union, dominated by the Muslim brotherhood,
called for an end to "all forms of normalization with the Zionist enemy."

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak raised the issue with Israeli Prime
Minister Yitzhak Rabin during a White House summit last month, and
demanded redress: an enguiry, a formal apology, financial compensation,
and trials of the accused.

"We don't want to make it a case between two countries," Mubarak was
quoted as saying in Cairo late last month.

"But public opinion here is taking the problem very seriously and I cannot
stand against them. We told the Israelis this situation cannot be solved
unless you start an investigation."

Both leaders seem anxious to put a damper on the issue, recognizing its
potential to inflame tensions in an already rocky relationship. But the
controversy has already spiralled out of control in Cairo, fed by further
revelations of PoW killings by Israelis.

Many Israelis were shocked to hear the first confirmation of such
executions from the lips of retired Gen. Arieh Biro.

For Israelis who give pride of place to the army - which stresses its
"purity of arms" code - the news jarred their sense of Jewish morality and
punctured historical myths.

Biro said he did what he had to do. As commander of a paratroop battalion
dropped deep behind enemy lines during the 1956 Israeli invasion of Egypt,
he said his soldiers had their hands full with their military objectives.

They were being taunted by their captives.

"Egyptian troops were pouring into the area, and the prisoners were
shouting, 'Just you wait, the Egyptian army will slaughter you.'"

Biro said he was unable to hold them, and unwilling to risk releasing them
with knowledge of their location at the Mitla Pass, which leads to the
Suez Canal in the Sinai Peninsula.

So, he and a lieutenant lined them up and gunned them down.

"I didn't have the troops to guard them - we had to move on to Ras Sudar -
so I decided to liquidate them," Biro was quoted as saying.

"I have ached over what I did...but, under the same circumstances, I think
I would do it again."

At one point, Biro said he emptied his canteen in front of Egyptian
soldier pleading for water.

"Whoever we managed to screw, we screwed."

Biro suggested his battalion commander, Rafael Eitan - who rose to become
the army's chief of staff and now heads the right-wing Tsomet party - was
aware of the executions. Likud politician Ariel Sharon was the brigade
commander at the time, and was later made Israel's defence minister until
he was disgraced in the Lebanon war.

Perhaps more chilling than Biro's graphic admissions were hints of more
dark secrets lurking in Israel's wartime past.

"If they try to throw me to the wolves, I'll speak out," Biro warned.

Indeed, the government has already signalled it will not prosecute Biro,
because a 20-year statute of limitations has lapsed. Israel has no war
crimes law except for acts of genocide or crimes committed by Nazis.

It is an irony that has not escaped Egyptian commentators. Israelis and
Jews abroad have relentlessly pursued Nazi war criminals for decades for
war crimes committed during Wold War II. But Biro remains beyond the reach
of Israeli law.

Alhough Rabin condemned his actions, the prime minister pointedly noted
that Biro was a Holocaust survivor.

"They chase Nazi war criminals for the rest of their lives, 60 or 70 years
down the road," Egyptian political scientist Walid Kazziha observed in an
interview. "But for Israeli crimes of mass murder, they're letting them go
- even when they admit it."


Kazziha said the matter won't be laid to rest until Israel offers
financial compensation to the families of the murdered PoWs. But he
doubted it would seriously damage the already frosty bilateral
relationship, because the Egyptian government hasn't made it a priority.

Biro's admissions and implications of more guilt to go around prompted
other Israeli historians and soldiers to speak out.  Journalist Gabriel
Brun wrote that he saw five PoWs shot by Israeli soldiers during the 1967
war, after they were forced to dig their own graves.

"I saw five prisoners killed in this way. Earlier, I had heard 10 similar
shots. I interpreted those to mean that another five were executed."

The testimonials prompted Egypt's military, and the Al Ahram newspaper to
mount an expedition to the Sinai in search of the PoWs' remains. They
found two mass graves near a former runway near Al Arish, 330 kilometeres
northeast of Cairo, containing prisoners' uniforms and bones where roughly
90 people may have been buried.

Israel's ambassador to Egypt, David Sultan, says dwelling on the past is
pointless.

"Things happened on both sides, and I ask what purpose this will serve,"
he said in an interview from Cairo.

But Sultan himself has become part of the story, targetted by the Egyptian
opposition press as responsible for killing 100 PoWs as a paratrooper
during the Sinai campaign.

In fact, Sultan says, "I was still in school in 1956, I was never a
paratrooper, and I was never an officer."

Israeli press agents say Sultan has requated a transfer from Cairo because
his life is in danger. But the ambassador denied the suggestion, saying
his tour of duty is up after three years in Cairo.

While Sultan wants to set aside the issue, Egypt's ambassador to Tel Aviv,
Muhammad Bassiouni, keeps raising it in Israel. He insisted on Israel
Radio last week that while both sides may have committed atrocities, only
an Israeli general has publicly admitted his guilt - making him an obvious
mark for investigation and prosecution.

Many Israeli historians feel torn between their academic obligation to
publicize the almost inevitable atrocities of wartime, and the obvious
consequences for an already delicate peacetime relationship between the
two former enemies.

Bringing the information out into the open forces Israel to confront the
moral challenge of preventing recurrences, said Ephraim Kam, deputy
director of the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv.

Something must also be done to rescue the bilateral relationship, he says.

"Mubarak needs a ladder to get off the tree, and if we provide it, he will
be satisfied."

But any subsequent investigation aimed at placating him "should be done
without too much noise," he said.

Shlomo Gazit, an academic and former director of military intelligence,
argues the events are being taken out of context.

"This is really a storm in a teacup," he says, adding the problem is not
with the killings, but with the fact that they were publicized.

"I don't think that this is the kind of story, with all the delicacies,
that should come out," Gazit said in an interview. "I've been to five
wars, and I haven't seen a war that was a tennis game. A war is an ugly,
dirty, cruel act with many, many unplanned and unwanted circumstances."

      ================================END=================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Tue Nov 26 06:25:47 PST 1996
Article: 81943 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!uunet!in2.uu.net!scanner.worldgate.com!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtd166.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Why Demjanjuk Was Found Innocent
Date: 26 Nov 1996 00:22:00 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 53
Message-ID: 
References: <243123=roth1@ix.netcom.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtd166.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.europe:49635 soc.culture.ukrainian:18401 soc.culture.baltics:14570 soc.culture.israel:51016 soc.culture.jewish:94425 alt.conspiracy:113914 alt.revisionism:81943 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:416796 alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy:49118

In article , varange@crl.com (Troy Varange) wrote:

>         Because the Israel court is run by nazis?

=============================================================================

Dear Troy,

Good try. But I'm afraid you're a little teenie bit off base. No, I think
it was on the basis of "reasonable doubt" that they let old John
Demjanjanuk go, after nearly 20 years of ugly and baseless persecution.. 

However, I can't appreciate your answer, to be sure. 

To be sure, old Nazis and White supremacists are indeed very welcome in
Israel, the Jewish state, so long as they have something that Jews happen
to want. 

That's the catch, old buddy. The Jews have got to be looking for what any
old fascist futzer is selling them.

See: if, say, well, take Ernst Zundel, for example, were able to offer
something to the Jews in Israel that they either wanted or needed, then
(hot damn! buddy!) he would be most cordially welcomed there.

I bet you they'd even name a street (if that's what it took) in a
respectable Tel Aviv neighbnourhood after Ernst Zundel. Hey, pal!, this
ain't as grotesque as it sounds!

I KNOW this because there was a most telltale precedent which reveals the
utterly depraved and base political whore-ishness of Zionism. It was this:

When the South African prime minister John Vorster paid an official visit
to Israel it included a tour of Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial, where
Jewish leaders such as Yitzhak Rabin and others cordially invited the
onetime Nazi sympathizer and collaborator and rabid racist ideologue and
unabashed White supremacist to pay homage to the victims of the Holocaust.

And there you have it, Troy (old chum): hoary, grisly political
whore-isness in its most pristine form!

Have a nice day!

Orest Slepokura

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:34 PST 1996
Article: 82098 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!EU.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtb179.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: With Complete Impunity: Israeli War Crimes
Date: 24 Nov 1996 16:51:12 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 45
Message-ID: 
References:  <32978865.3E78@rio.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtb179.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <32978865.3E78@rio.com>, Chuck Ferree  wrote:

> Chuck Ferree writes:

 Prove your assertions that the Nazis did 
> not conduct mass murders of Jews and others. Or I will brand you as a 
> lying anti-Semitic.
> 
> Chuck Ferree
==============================================================================


Of course, the Nazi committed mass murders of Jews and others. I never
said otherwise. You're fantasizing, Chuck. On top of which, you also feel
compelled to threaten me:

"Or I will brand you as a lying anti-Semitic." 

"...anti-Semitic"? (I think you meant to say "anti-Semite," no?) 

You can't be feeling very secure in order to have to stoop to making a
threat. Don't worry; I didn't take it personally.

The argument's often been made that the Holocaust is used by Zionists to
cover up or rationalize Israeli war crimes.  See, for example, Tom
Seguev's thesis in *The Seventh Millionth*. 

Seguev underscores this proclivity with regard to the leadership of
Menachem Begin, who sometimes cynically used the Holocaust during the 1982
invasion of Lebanon to justify his actions: a wholesale invasion that
resulted in war crimes being committed agaimnst defenceless civilians by
Israel and her allies.

Menchem Begin, BTW, was an old-time terrorist who, during the 1930s, had
long hoped to make common cause with the Nazis in driving the British out
of Palestine.

==============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:35 PST 1996
Article: 82113 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!dciteleport.com!phase2.worldnet.att.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg79.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing
Date: 25 Nov 1996 13:36:21 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References:  <5796lq$1738@itssrv1.ucsf.edu> <57beij$9im@access5.digex.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg79.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <57beij$9im@access5.digex.net>, mstein@access5.digex.net
(Michael P. Stein) wrote:

> In article <5796lq$1738@itssrv1.ucsf.edu>,
> Brian Harmon  wrote:
> >In article ,
> >Orest Slepokura  wrote:
> >>                   Scientific evidence of Holocaust missing
> >
> >
> >This is formatted to look like a news story, what paper
> >was it printed in?
> 
>     Er, Brian, I'll save Mr. Slepokura the trouble.  The name, date and
> page were all given at the bottom of his article, though I think it was a
> wire service story rather than original work by the Sault Star.  Would
> that all "revisionists" gave citations to the same standard.
> 
=============================================================================

Thank you Mr. Stein for correcting Brian Harmon. You're both a scholar and
a gentleman. With a sense of humour, moreover.

The article was indeed from the Sault Star [Friday, January 18, 1985]. It
was the headline that I found interesting, among other things. 

What's also interesting is that it seems Mr. Harmon suspected that I had
made  up the article out of whole cloth to "look like" a newspaper story.
I commend his skepticism. 

Probably because it reminds me of my own.


===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:36 PST 1996
Article: 82311 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg92.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Why Demjanjuk Was Found Innocent
Date: 27 Nov 1996 00:40:52 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 41
Message-ID: 
References: <243123=roth1@ix.netcom.com>   <329AFD83.75B8@interport.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg92.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.europe:49817 soc.culture.ukrainian:18444 soc.culture.baltics:14609 soc.culture.israel:51250 soc.culture.jewish:95008 alt.conspiracy:114535 alt.revisionism:82311 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:417616 alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy:49344

In article <329AFD83.75B8@interport.net>, amiles@interport.net wrote:

> Orest Slepokura wrote:
> > Good try. But I'm afraid you're a little teenie bit off base. No, I >
think it was on the basis of "reasonable doubt" that they let old John
> > Demjanjanuk go, after nearly 20 years of ugly and baseless persecution..
> 
> Demjanjuk spent a lot of his life pretty quietly in Ohio.  What
> persecution did he suffer for 20 years?

===============================================================================

Twenty years ago, in 1976, a Communist-run newspaper based in New York
identified John Demjanjuk as the notorious Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka.


The media subsequently reported on his various trials until he became
identified in the public mind as the infamous Ivan.

Demjanjuk lost a great deal. In fact, everything he'd worked for all his life. 

Then on July 29th, 1993, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that John
Demjanjuk was NOT Ivan; somebody else wa, it seems. 

This, after he'd spent 5 years on death row, having been sentenced to
death on April 25, 1988 by a lower Israeli [kangaroo] court.

However, since his return to America in September 1993 John has been
persecuted by rabid Zionist Jews like Rabbi Weiss and others at his home
in Parma, Ohio.



===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 28 07:03:37 PST 1996
Article: 82370 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg88.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Why Demjanjuk Was Found Innocent
Date: 27 Nov 1996 05:24:07 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 44
Message-ID: 
References: <243123=roth1@ix.netcom.com>   <329AFD83.75B8@interport.net>  
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg88.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.europe:49849 soc.culture.ukrainian:18450 soc.culture.baltics:14615 soc.culture.israel:51286 soc.culture.jewish:95105 alt.conspiracy:114640 alt.revisionism:82370 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:417751 alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy:49368

In article , joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) writes:
> 
> >Then on July 29th, 1993, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that John
> >Demjanjuk was NOT Ivan; somebody else wa, it seems. 
> 
> No, the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that he had not been proven well
> beyond a reasonable doubt to be Ivan.  I know that such unsubtle
> differences escape you, Sleppy, but you don't have a keen eye even for
> the obvious. 
==============================================================================

I guess not, Mr. Rosenberg. But I'm not the only one...

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, was invited to pay an
official visit to Israel in April 1976, it included a tour of Yad Vashem,
the Holocaust memorial, where the late Yitzhak Rabin and other very
high-ranking Jewish dignitaries invited the onetime Nazi collaborator and
implacable White supremacist to pay homage to the victims of the
Holocaust. 

I guess they, too, didn't have "a keen eye," as you call it, "even for the
obvious."

Evidently, not every one can be as sharp as Joel Rosenberg.


===============================================================================


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Joel Rosenberg       | For news about upcoming books,  | My opinions are mine.
> joelr@winternet.com  | finger joelr@winternet.com      | Whose are yours?
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Nov 28 08:26:26 PST 1996
Article: 82443 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!pumpkin.pangea.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtg80.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Date: 26 Nov 1996 14:16:56 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 22
Message-ID: 
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtg80.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:


> Why can't you people read? Are you *all* mentally retarded?

===============================================================================

Here Dr. Keren has afforded us a most egregious example of ableism. I
don't suppose he cares, though, so long as his own pet ox has not been
gored. 

But that is human nature, after all.

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Nov 30 11:30:07 PST 1996
Article: 82517 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc116.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: 961125: Once more:  The Zundelsite - a telephone?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 01:27:51 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 92
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <57f333$1q4c$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtc116.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:82517 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3149 alt.censorship:110676

In article <57f333$1q4c$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie
Farber) wrote:

> zundel-repost@alpha.c2.org (E. Zundel Repost) wrote:
> 
> >------------ BEGIN ZUNDELGRAM MESSAGE ------------
> >
> >November 25, 1996
> >
> >Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
> 
>      
> 
> >You see that in overt as well as covert ways.  It used to be, for instance,
> >that the Canadian press would never use Ernst's name without vociferous,
> >snide comments about the "merchant of hate", his "anti-Semitic hate
> >mongering", "Six million dead" - and on and on, ad nauseam.  It was a hate
> >fest every time.  It was not to their credit.
> 
>                  
> 
> >Here is a good example of at least professional neutrality, which I am
> >putting in my ZGram with comments interspersed to make sure that I am not
> >infringing on the copyright.  Entitled "Rights panel to probe Zundel's Web
> >site" and "Zundel faces probe of Internet Web site", this wire comments
> >thusly, as it appeared on Saturday, November 23, in the Toronto Globe and
> >Mail:
> >
> >"In an unprecedented move, the Canadian Human Rights Commission has ordered
> >hearings into complaints that Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel is promoting
> >hatred on the Internet.
> 
> Bernie Farber responds:
> 
> While maitaining it's "professional neutrality", I couldn't help but
notice,that the Globe and Mail,
> quite correctly refers to Ernst Zundel as a "Holocaust denier".

===============================================================================

Orest Slepokura comments:

What is certain is the Canadian Federal Human Rights Commissioner, Max
Yalden, is in no way concerned with projecting any notion of "professional
neutrality."
In the best totalitarian tradition Commissioner Yalden makes his views
clear up front ["Human rights panel to probe Zundel's Web site," Dennis
Bueckert, The Globe and Mail, Nov. 23, 1996, p. A5]: 

"Mr. Yalden said he is not trying to interfere with free speech [sic], but
'I don't think Zundel's engaged in free debate [despite hot links to both
Nizkor and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre Web sites]. I think he's engaged in
trying to incite people against the Jews."

The very first paragraph of the above article informs the reader that "In
an unprecdented move, the Canadian Human Rights Commission has ordered
hearings into *complaints* [emphasis mine] that Holocaust denier Ernst
Zundel is promoting hatred on the Internet."  

Of course, it follows that "complaints" are lodged by complainants. What
is odd in this instance are two things: 

1) these complainants are NOT in any way identified in The Globe article, and 

2) NO reason is given as to why they are not identified or, in the very
best Orwellian tradition, cannot - for some esoteric reason - be made
known to the general Canadian public. But I bet Bernie Farber can tell us
who they are. 

In fact, my hunch is Farber and the Canadian Jewish Congress are at least
one of the complainants.  And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bernie
Farber knew who the other complainants were. Could he tell us, I wonder,
let us the rest of us in on a trade secret, as it were, and divulge a bit
of information that only the higher cadres of the Thought Police are privy
to in Canada?

It's also telltale that on the very same page featuring the above article 
Bernie Farber's role as a snitch was ingloriously highlighted in a short
item dealing with a banned CD that happened to find its way into the
collection of a Niagara Falls record bar. 

Mind you, that's another story for another day. Perhaps in a follow up
item to this one...

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Nov 30 11:45:38 PST 1996
Article: 3149 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.agtac.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc116.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: 961125: Once more:  The Zundelsite - a telephone?
Date: 29 Nov 1996 01:27:51 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 92
Distribution: world
Message-ID: 
References:  <57f333$1q4c$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtc116.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:82517 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:3149 alt.censorship:110676

In article <57f333$1q4c$1@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>, ncrccjc@ibm.net (Bernie
Farber) wrote:

> zundel-repost@alpha.c2.org (E. Zundel Repost) wrote:
> 
> >------------ BEGIN ZUNDELGRAM MESSAGE ------------
> >
> >November 25, 1996
> >
> >Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
> 
>      
> 
> >You see that in overt as well as covert ways.  It used to be, for instance,
> >that the Canadian press would never use Ernst's name without vociferous,
> >snide comments about the "merchant of hate", his "anti-Semitic hate
> >mongering", "Six million dead" - and on and on, ad nauseam.  It was a hate
> >fest every time.  It was not to their credit.
> 
>                  
> 
> >Here is a good example of at least professional neutrality, which I am
> >putting in my ZGram with comments interspersed to make sure that I am not
> >infringing on the copyright.  Entitled "Rights panel to probe Zundel's Web
> >site" and "Zundel faces probe of Internet Web site", this wire comments
> >thusly, as it appeared on Saturday, November 23, in the Toronto Globe and
> >Mail:
> >
> >"In an unprecedented move, the Canadian Human Rights Commission has ordered
> >hearings into complaints that Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel is promoting
> >hatred on the Internet.
> 
> Bernie Farber responds:
> 
> While maitaining it's "professional neutrality", I couldn't help but
notice,that the Globe and Mail,
> quite correctly refers to Ernst Zundel as a "Holocaust denier".

===============================================================================

Orest Slepokura comments:

What is certain is the Canadian Federal Human Rights Commissioner, Max
Yalden, is in no way concerned with projecting any notion of "professional
neutrality."
In the best totalitarian tradition Commissioner Yalden makes his views
clear up front ["Human rights panel to probe Zundel's Web site," Dennis
Bueckert, The Globe and Mail, Nov. 23, 1996, p. A5]: 

"Mr. Yalden said he is not trying to interfere with free speech [sic], but
'I don't think Zundel's engaged in free debate [despite hot links to both
Nizkor and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre Web sites]. I think he's engaged in
trying to incite people against the Jews."

The very first paragraph of the above article informs the reader that "In
an unprecdented move, the Canadian Human Rights Commission has ordered
hearings into *complaints* [emphasis mine] that Holocaust denier Ernst
Zundel is promoting hatred on the Internet."  

Of course, it follows that "complaints" are lodged by complainants. What
is odd in this instance are two things: 

1) these complainants are NOT in any way identified in The Globe article, and 

2) NO reason is given as to why they are not identified or, in the very
best Orwellian tradition, cannot - for some esoteric reason - be made
known to the general Canadian public. But I bet Bernie Farber can tell us
who they are. 

In fact, my hunch is Farber and the Canadian Jewish Congress are at least
one of the complainants.  And I wouldn't be at all surprised if Bernie
Farber knew who the other complainants were. Could he tell us, I wonder,
let us the rest of us in on a trade secret, as it were, and divulge a bit
of information that only the higher cadres of the Thought Police are privy
to in Canada?

It's also telltale that on the very same page featuring the above article 
Bernie Farber's role as a snitch was ingloriously highlighted in a short
item dealing with a banned CD that happened to find its way into the
collection of a Niagara Falls record bar. 

Mind you, that's another story for another day. Perhaps in a follow up
item to this one...

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Dec  1 16:07:50 PST 1996
Article: 83097 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.supernet.net!news.magicnet.net!iag.net!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!204.191.213.61!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!nntp.portal.ca!news.bc.net!news.insinc.net!news.cadvision.com!agtc133.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: 1 Dec 1996 01:55:05 GMT
Organization: CADVision Development Corp.
Lines: 60
Message-ID: 
References:  <57b0lu$4pn@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <57b3tv$n32@news.nyu.edu> <329A8BBB.1FC2@interport.net> <57en08$b25@news.nyu.edu> <57lvgi$jo2@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: agtc133.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.ukrainian:18464 soc.culture.baltics:14637 soc.culture.israel:51865 soc.culture.jewish:96322 alt.conspiracy:115712 alt.revisionism:83097 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:418941 alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy:49585

In article <57lvgi$jo2@tor-nn1-hb0.netcom.ca>, spearman@netcom.ca(gerald
henry chaban) wrote:

> In <57en08$b25@news.nyu.edu> fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) writes: 
> 
> 
>     (...text deleted)
> 
> 
> >Ding-dong, you're wrong.
> >
> >The U.S. Dept. of Immigration and Naturalization has a little
> >questionnaire they ask prospective settlers in the USA.  One of the
> >questions is "Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Nazi
> >Party."
> >
> >Clearly Demanjuk lied.
> >
> >BTW, Communists and homosexuals are also screened.
> >
> >Andrew Mathis
> 
> 
>     
>     This may be a naive question since I am not familiar with
>     the US immigration law.
> 
>     If the communists, nazis and homosexuals are allowed to
>     speak, organize and exist in the United States, then why
>     are they considered to be undesirable as immigrants?
> 
>                                     GHC
 =============================================================================

To GHC: you posed a hell of a good question re. Demjanjuk. It's bursting
with cold hard logic.
 
To Andrew Mathis: First, learn at least to correctly spell the name of the
man who you've decided to trash. 

For what's it's worth - very little I suspect - you should realize that no
one with any knowledge of the case of John Demjanjuk has ever suggested
that he was or became a member of the Nazi Party.

Also, can any tell me whether this "ding dong" named Andrew Mathis is a
member of the Nizkor team? 

If so, I regret to say it is attracting very low-grade talent indeed in
its so-called war of ideas with its revisionist foe.

Orest Slepokura

===============================================================================

-- 
******************************************************************
What sort of truth is it that needs protection?  - Auberon Waugh  *
                                                                  *
The London Daily Telegraph, May 9, 1992                           *
*******************************************************************

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor