From slepokuo@cadvision.com Fri Sep  1 08:59:28 PDT 1995
Article: 5653 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Demjanjuk: Victim of Holocaustomania
Date: 1 Sep 1995 13:05:35 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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For a fuller understanding of what the Jewish scholar Dr. Alfred Liliethal
meant by the term "Holocaustomania," one should read the book The
Demjanjuk Affair by Yoram Sheftel, John Demjanjuk's Israeli authority. 

The Demjanjuk Affair: The Rise and Fall of a Show-Trial was published by
Victor Gollancz in London in 1994.  It sells for about $30 Canadian.

Many shocking facts are made clear.  One of them: the OSI, the
Nazi-hunting arm of the US Justice Department, knew as early as 1978 that
Demjanjuk was not the man it was after.  However, it was only in 1993 that
Demjanjuk was cleared of the charges against him and able to leave his
prison cell in Ayalon Prison in Israel where he spent 5 years on death row
and return to his family in Ohio.

Demjanjuk was freed by a decision of the Israeli Supreme Court in 1993.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Sep 11 03:43:37 PDT 1995
Article: 6862 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "...ethnic cleansing that commenced in Israel..."
Date: 11 Sep 1995 04:36:26 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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The August 7 issue of TIME contains an essay by Elie Wiesel titled "Bosnia
and the Holocaust."  

To begin with, Wiesel expresses his concern over a couple matters. The
atrocities in Bosnia being one of them, and what he sees as a promiscuous
use
journalists are making of terms like Auschwitz and the Holocaust being the
other. Somehow he manages to mingle both humanitarian compassion and a
cloying jealousy in the same breath. 

Terrible though events in Bosnia may be, according to Wiesel,they
shouldn't be confounded with Auschwitz: "Auschwitz was and is different."
And:"Furthermore, Auschwitz remains unique in recorded history." Naturally
nothing that occurred 
in Cambodia in 1974 or Ukraine in 1933 or Tibet in 1959 or Rwanda in 1994,
say, could possibly compare to Auschwitz. No sir. Never.

("Remembrances of an Auuschwitz [sic] in Rwandan [sic]" bannered The Globe
& Mail in its Sept. 9 issue [p. D2]. Wiesel would've have been pretty
ticked off, especially by this trespassing on his sacred turf in a New
York Times article by Donald G. McNeil, Jr.: "...Rwanda is building a
holocaust museum at its own Auschwitz," he dared to write. Which was
precisely the sort of thing Wiesel had railed against in his TIME essay.)

Which brings me to an observation made in another essay by journalist
Alexander Cockburn. It appears in an introduction to Noam Chomsky's
Chronicles of Dissent and contains an observation that might cause a dent
in the moral authority that Wiesel habitually bestows on himself.

Cockburn is quoting an exasperated Noam Chomsky with whom he was engaged
in a conversation:

"'I don't know why they aren't drowning in their own hypocrisy,' he
remarked to me on the phone the other day, speaking with a kind of violent
astonishment as we discussed the furor over 'ethnic cleansing' in
Bosnia-Herzegovina, in which were raised voices of American Jews who had
spent a lifetime keeping quiet about the ethnic cleansing that commenced
in Israel in 1948."

Of course, one of the voices of American Jews that had remained eerily
silent throughout the decades regarding "the ethnic cleasing that
commenced in Israel in 1948" was Elie Wiesel's. No pontifications there
about the fate of generations of Palestinian refugees. Ah, well. Different
strokes for different folks, I guess.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Sep 13 07:56:07 PDT 1995
Article: 7047 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: On the 50th Anniversary of the End of WW 2...
Date: 12 Sep 1995 13:08:58 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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Here is sober second thought from the late Malcolm Muggeridge [see the
February 1968 issue of Esquire magazine] regarding the Second World War:

"In all the immense literature about the 1939-1945 war, one may observe a
legend in process of being shaped. Gradually, authentic memories of the
war--of its boredom, its futility, the sense it gave of being part of a
process of inevitable decomposition--fade in favor of the legendary
version, embodied in Churchill's rhetoric and all the other narratives by
field marshals, air marshals and admirals, creating the same impression of
a titanic and forever memorable struggle in defense of civilization. In
fact, of course, the war's ostensible aims--the defense of a defunct
Empire, a spent Revolution, and bogus Freedoms--were meaningless in the
context of the times. They will probably rate in the end no more than a
footnote on the last page of the last chapter of the story of our
civilization."

When viewed against this stark and hoary backdrop, what then to make of
the big hoopla made of the 50th anniversary "celebrations" marking the end
of World War Two? 

If one were to pursue Muggeridge's anti-hype train of thought, I guess one
would conclude these "celebrations" were really nothing more than the
addition of a smaller footnote to a bigger one.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Wed Sep 13 21:09:00 PDT 1995
Article: 7191 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: The late Rabbi Kahane and Elie Wiesel compared...
Date: 14 Sep 1995 02:11:16 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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Not every Jewish historian of the Holocaust holds Elie Wiesel in high
regard. A prominent French scholar, and nemesis of revisionist scholar
Robert Faurisson, Pierre Vidal-Naquet had this to say concerning the 1986
Nobel Peace Prize laureate. The commentary appeared in the April 1987
issue of the French journal Zero:

"For example, you have Rabbi Kahane, that extremist Jew, who is less
dangerous than a man like Elie Wiesel, who will say just about
anything...Reading some of the descriptions in Night is enough to cause
you to realize that they are not accurate  and that he ends up turning
himself into a Shoah merchant...And in fact he also harms, greatly harms,
historical truth."

Pierre Vidal-Naquet is the author of numerous essays and articles very
harshly critical of Holocaust revisionism.

No further comment.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Sep 14 10:11:20 PDT 1995
Article: 7269 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Yitzhak Rabin: Israeli war crimes "...aberrations..."
Date: 14 Sep 1995 13:14:00 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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The Globe & Mail, August 21, 1995: "Rabin rejects probe":

"JERSALEM - Prime Minister Yitzhak rejected calls yesterday to investigate
reports of Israeli war crimes against Egyptian prisoners of war, saying
both sides were guilty of 'aberrations'.

"Israel is reeling from revelations that its soldiers killed prisoners and
civilians in at least three Mideast wars..."

To be sure, so long as there are wars, there will be war crimes committed.
And, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein, a war crime is a war crime is a war
crime. Save, of course, when committed by Israeli Jews. Then they become
mere "aberrations," something to be overlooked or looked past, an
accidental lapse in an otherwise eternally pure essence--or something like
that.  This from the same folks who everlastingly chattering,sermonizing
and pontifacting about the "lessons of the
the Holocaust."

Oh, well. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Gentile geese
are to be served a different sauce than the Jewish gander.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Sep 14 22:30:11 PDT 1995
Article: 7376 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jonathan Pollard and Mordechai Vanunu: Fates Contrasted
Date: 14 Sep 1995 03:01:46 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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Here's an excerpt from an Eric Margolis article ["A traitor by any other
name"] published in the Toronto Sun [Dec. 2, 1993]. It contrasts the fate
of two men, both spies, both Jewish:

"The damage [Israeli spy Jonathan] Pollard inflicted on U.S. strategic
interests was enormous, and still gravely hurts the U.S. today. Israel and
the KGB may have turned or compromised most of the CIA's and DIA's
networks in the Mideast and the southern USSR. Pollard's treachery left
the U.S. nearly blind in the Mideast.

"There is, however, a real Jewish prisoner of conscience. His name is
Mordechai Vanunu. He was the technician who fled Israel and revealed to
the British press that Israel had secretly built some 200 nuclear weapons.
Vanunu was kidnapped from Rome by Israeli agents, tried in secret, and
sentenced by Israel to 18 years

"As Vanunu's brother told me [i.e., Sun columnist, Eric Margolis],
Mordechai Vanunu is in permanent solitary confinement, in a tiny cell
measuring only six by nine feet, in which a light shines 24-hours a day

"Why hasn't the Jewish community raised its voice about the shocking
psychological torture of Vanunu instead of protesting the well-deserved
fate of Pollard, whose treason brought shame and danger on Jews
everywhere?"

Good question. Especially since one of the cautionary "lessons" habitually
touted by Jews is how the Holocaust should serve as a warning to all about
the dangers inherent in a silent complacency or complacent silence when
faced with a blatant injustice.

What rankled Margolis was the effort a thousand Jewish rabbis and several
Jewish organizations in the U.S. had made on behalf of Jonathan Pollard,
hoping to secure his early release from prison, all the while remaining
shamelessly, sheepishly taciturn regarding Vanunu's ordeal in an Israeli
jail cell.

Lest anyone be tempted to dismiss Margolis as an anti-Semite--surely among
the most shopworn of political swearwords nowadays--understand that
Margolis is in fact Jewish.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 16 02:51:31 PDT 1995
Article: 7599 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Vorster: a Nazi at Yad Vashem
Date: 16 Sep 1995 01:01:30 GMT
Organization: CADVision
Lines: 55
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Historical irony is a recurring motif in Noam Chomsky's work.  Although
not his specifically an example taken from his work, here is the kind of
paradox one might trip over reading his books:

When the South African prime minister, John Vorster, paid an official
visit to Israel in April, 1976, it naturally included a tour of Yad
Vashem, Jerusalem's Holocaust memorial, where Jewish officials invited the
onetime Nazi collaborator and implacable White supremacist to pay homage
to victims of the Holocaust.  

Compared, say, to the vociferous Jewish protest that erupted in November,
1979, when word leaked out that America's UN ambassador, Andrew Young, had
spoken privately to the PLO's UN observer, no less remarkable was the calm
equanimity both Israeli and diaspora Jews displayed toward the Vorster
visit.

Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi tells us [The Israeli Connection, Random
House:Toronto, 1987, p.x]: "For most Israelis, the Vorster visit was just
another state visit by a foreign leader.  It did not draw much attention. 
Most Israelis did not even remember his name, and did not see anything
unusual, much less surreal in the scene: Vorster was just another visiting
dignitary being treated to the usual routine."

So, what are we looking at here? The "banality of evil"?  How about:the
evil of banality?  A bit of oldfashioned realpolitik? surrealpolitik,
maybe?

Andrew and Leslie Cockburn recall that a few of the dignitaries and others
present did experience a touch of moral nausea on seeing an old, unabashed
Nazi collaborator paying homage to victims of the Holocaust [Dangerous
Liaison, Stoddart: Toronto, 1991, p. 299]:

"When Vorster laid a wreath at Yad Vashem, Israel's memorial to the
Holocaust, it made some observers exceptionally queasy. Vorster had served
nearly two years in jail during World War II for his Nazi collaboration.
This leader of an extreme racist regime had never acknowledged that the
Nazi doctrine was in any way distasteful."

Vorster left Israel four days later, but not before he signed some
treaties and brokered a few deals between the Jewish state and South
Africa's old apartheid regime.  

At the very least we're looking at a telltale episode of double standards,
of a deep cynicism. A diplomatic episode that occurred, moreover, against
a backdrop of silent complicity. Speaking  for myself, it's the silence I
hear.

Orest Slepokura



 


Orest Slepokura


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 16 14:52:00 PDT 1995
Article: 7663 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Doug Collins and "Swindler's List" Revisited
Date: 16 Sep 1995 17:39:53 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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An overflow crowd packed a July 25 hearing of the British Columbia Press
Council to back North Shore News columnist in a hearing into a complaint
by retired Simon Fraser University professor Lionel Kenner about five
columns Collins wrote in 1993 and 1994, including one headlined
"Swindler's List." 

(It is these same five columns that the Canadian Jewish Congress has
lodged an official complaint about in a parallel action before the B.C.
Human Rights [sic] Commission under the notorious gag-law Bill 33.)

The complainant, Kenner, "said five Collins columns concerning the
Holocaust were designed to mislead. That, he said, contravenes the first
B.C. Press Council Code of Practice, which states, 'newspapers must guard
against deliberate or careless publication of inaccuracies or statements
designed to mislead.'"

Collins, who readily agrees that he disputes the endlessly repeated
concentration camp death toll of six-million Jews, countered by saying he
believes he recorded everything honestly. Collins [North Shore News, July
26]: "I have not ever consciously selected something in order to distort
the story."

"Kenner [also] charged that News publisher Peter Speck and editor Timothy
Renshaw either carelessly published or colluded with Collins in publishing
misleading statements. But for Renshaw, the case boils down to press
freedoms. 'The News has never said that Mr. Collins is right or wrong on
the issue of the Holocaust, merely that he has a right to express an
opinion and the right to be
wrong,' said Renshaw [NSN, July 26].  

"While a number of people showed up to support Dr. Kenner, including Alan
Dutton of the B.C. Organization to Right Racism, the majority were backing
Collins. A half-dozen held signs with supportive messages for Mr. Collins
and free speech [NSN, July 26]."

[When] "Doug Collins took the floor, he spoke of attempts to limit freedom
of speech and attempts to have him removed as NSN columnist. 'Complaints
to the press council usually concern an item of alleged inaccuracy or a
newspaper's failure to give a person space to make a reply. But that
doesn't apply here. The dispute is about history. And history is subject
to a thousand interpretations.' Mr. Collins asserted that, 'The complaint
is totally in line with the views and wishes of the Canadian Jewish
Congress, a pressure group that is prominent in the propagation of its
view of what is known as the Holocaust'" [Western Jewish Bulletin, July
28].

What is interesting about Collins is the significant amount of public
support he has managed to attract. For example, last fall a call-in
telephone poll conducted by the Vancouver Province asked readers "Do you
agree with Doug Collins that the Nazi Holocaust is exaggerated?"  Of the
295 calls received, 50% answered Yes [The Vancouver Province, Oct. 6,
1994]. Two weeks later [Oct. 21st], Collins appeared as a guest on Radio
CKST's "Charles Maclean Show."  Of the 30 or so callers who phoned in,
virtually all expressed some degree of sympathy for Doug Collins or his
opinions or both.


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Mon Sep 18 22:18:58 PDT 1995
Article: 8044 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "Mindless cheerleaders for Israel?"
Date: 18 Sep 1995 04:34:17 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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Gerald Caplan is former national secretary of the New Democratic Party of
Canada. He is a public affairs consultant, with major reports on public
broadcasting and public education to his credit. He is also a frequent
television commentator and newspaper columnist. 

The following article--"Mindless cheerleaders for Israel?"--is taken from
Gerald Caplan's column in the May 13 1990 issue of The Toronto Star,
Canada's biggest daily newspaper. Here is it verbatim:

                     MINDLESS CHEERLEADERS FOR ISRAEL?

"Leaders of Canada's Jewish community are doing a profound disservice to
Canadian Jewry and the state of Israel. By either blessing, or justifying,
or remaining silent about every reprhensible actvity of both the Israeli
government and Israeli extremists, they undermine their own credibility in
the eyes of many thoughtful Canadians, Jews included.

"Their behaviour is not only immoral; it is counter-productive.

"Never mind the routine beatings, torture, killings and harassment of
Palestinians by Jews. Take the recent move of 150 Israeli fundamentalists,
surreptitiously subsidized by the Shamir government, into the old
Christian quarter of Jerusalem. The mayor of Jerusalem [Teddy Kollek], a
Jew, calls it 'stupid and ignorant.' The American Israel Public Affairs
Committee, the principal pro-Israel lobby in the U.S., warns that American
Jews may now cut back their financial support of Israel. The director of
the Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai Brith in the U.S. calls the
settlement 'provocative and insensitive,' while the president of the
American Jewish Congress is 'appalled' by the move.

"Then, there's Canada. The Canadian Jewish Congress issues a statement
reaffirming its belief that Jews have a right to live in any part of
Israel. The Canada-Israel Committee affirms this same right but with the
mealy-mouthed qualification that 'the manner in which recent events have
unfolded is disquieting.'

"And worst of all: The Canadian B'nai Brith. A B'nai Brith delegation of
20 Jewish leaders from across Canada, in Israel when the Jerusalem issue
explodes, are ready, aye ready, to perform as mindless cheerleaders. 'We
support,' a spokesperson says, 'what the duly elected government of Israel
does' - a peculiarly witless and uninformed principle.

"And to demonstrate the boundless nature of their irresponsibility, the
delegation then visits and pays homage at a Jewish settlement in the
occupied West Bank that had been founded by Rabbi Moshe Levinger.
Levinger, a fanatical leader of Israel's Jewish settler movement and a
bigot who calls Arabs 'dogs,' was just convicted of killing an unarmed,
unthreatening Palestinian shopkeeper.

"Is there no limit to what Canadian Jewish leaders will tolerate from
Israel? Wrong question. Is there any level of iniquity they'll fail to
celebrate? Is there a more monstrous Israeli figure than Ari Sharon,
chauvinist, ultra-hawk, architect of the 1982 invasion of Lebanon who
failed, an Israeli commission of enquiry found, to prevent the bloody
massacre by Israel's Lebanese allies of more than 700 helpless
Palestinians in the Shatilla and Sabra refugee camps?

"Not ghastly enough, it seems, for the Canadian Friends of the Jerusalem
College of Technology, whose board has chosen to invite Sharon to speak at
a Toronto fund raising event. What kind of message does this invitation
send to Canadians, I asked their official spokesperson. 'We're not
politically naive or stupid,' he replied. 'The board weighed all the
considerations before deciding. There were lots of considerations involved
here.'

"So the question remains: Is there any act of 'the duly elected government
of Israel' that will shame the leaders of Canadian Jewry into saying, with
Jewish leaders in America and in Israel itself: 'Enough is enough. You are
despoiling every great historic tradition of Judaisim [sic]?'

"When Israel renewed diplomatic relations with Ethiopia earlier this year,
it was revealed they would also be sending military advisers and arms,
including cluster bombs, to Menghistu's demented, murderous regime. Was
there a peep of concern, let alone dissent, from the Canadian Jewish
establishment for this heinous act? Has there been even an eyebrow raised
at the inimate 15-year collaboration between Israel and [pre-Mandella]
South Africa, actively promoted by the leaders of both major Israeli
parties, involving not only commercial trade but weapons development,
military co-operation and joint nuclear research, very possibly the joint
testing of a nuclear bomb.

"'Because of their historic experience,' writes Irving Abella in A Coat of
Many Colors, his new history of Canadian Jewry, 'Jews have tended to be
sensitive to oppression and to threats to religious and political
freedom.' Except, it appears, in Canada and Israel.

"Yet, those of us who dare speak out for traditional Jewish values are
rewarded with menacing and abusive midnight phone calls. Why pick on us?
Why not harass instead those 780 American Jewish leaders who, according to
a recent poll by the Israel-Diaspora Institute, are overwhelmingly opposed
to the most fundamental Israeli policies of recent years?"

No further comment.

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Thu Sep 21 23:54:04 PDT 1995
Article: 8636 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: David Rubitsky: A Legend in His Own Mind
Date: 22 Sep 1995 04:56:22 GMT
Organization: CADVision
Lines: 128
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As a veteran of World War Two, David Rubitsky claimed that all alone he
managed to kill 500 Japanese soldiers in the battle for New Guinea on
December 1, 1942.

Rubitsky, an American Jew, also claimed he was denied a Congressional
Medal of Honour because of anti-Semitism. 

Assisted by the Anti-Defamation League and a largely sympathetic media
[see the newspaper articles at the end], Rubitsky sought the recognition
he said he had earned by his wartime valour and heroism.

Because of the lobbying efforts of the ADL, including a resolution signed
by 92 members of Congress, in 1987 the U.S. Army undertook a two-year
review of David Rubitsky's story.

On December 8, 1989, after obtaining evidence from forensic specialists
and taking statements from Rubitsky and 20 others who served alongside
him,the U.S. Army concluded that Rubitsky's claim was unfounded.

Quite apart from his wild story, Rubitsky's claim was marred by
controversy from the beginning. The headline bannered in the Madison, WI,
Capitol Times said it all: "WW II Soldier Started Anti-Semitism Battle
Early In Life." Newspaper and magazine articles, with references to
"anti-Semitism," appeared in such prestige publications as TIME and the
New York Times. The storyline was simple: Rubitsky, a war hero, was not
being rightly celebrated as one because of "anti-Semitism."

But members of Rubitsky's old World War II unit disputed his claim and
called it a hoax. George Hess, a member of Rubitsky's infantry regiment
said, "It is the biggest fairy tale anybody has ever told the U.S. Army to
get a medal."

Claire O. Ehle said the claim was "one big hoax" and that Rubitsky was
"hiding behind a smokescreen of anti-Semitism to cover up his flimsy,
unsubstantiated fairy tale."

On February 9, 1990, two months after the U.S. Army report,Jewish Week reported
that the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) had finally conceded the Army's position.

After that, the story faded.

But its cautionary value remains. 

*******************************************************************************

Here is John Patrick Hunter's piece in the Madison (WI) Capital-Times for
November 29, 1989:

              WWII solder started anti-Semitism battle early in life
 
The alleged anti-Semitism that may have deprived David Rubitsky of a Medal
of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration, has dogged Milton's
Jewish infantry veteran since he was a child in small town Wisconsin.

"Once again, I am taking suffering from these people who crucified me as a
kid," Rubitsky said.

The Army is conducting a 22-month review of a claim by Rubitsky and two of
his wartime commanders that he killed more than 500 Japanese soldiers in a
World War II encounter in New Guinea, but that he was denied the medal
because he was a Jew.

Rubitsky,in a visit to The Capitol-Times, said he was subjected to racist
taunts even as a youngster growing up in Edgerton.

He was one of a family of nine children, seven boys and two girls, of a
Russian Jewish immigrant family. "They used to put white crosses on our
lawn," he said.

Rubitsky said his family was the only Jewish family in that Rock County
comunity.

Efforts to discredit Rubitsky's wartime exploits have been mounted by a
small group of men who were also in the Red Arrow division.Two of them
recently told The Capitol Hill Times that Rubitsky's claim is a hoax.

"If medals were given for fairy tales, Rubitsky richly deserved one,"
Claire Ehle of Evansville said in a letter. He said his protest is being
supported by Rolland McIntyre, Elgin Faye, Robert Burdick and Clifford
Mason, Rock County veterans who also served in New Guinea in 1942-43.

Ehle and McIntyre brought their complaints against the Rubitsky claim to
The Capitol Times last week.Both men strongly denied their efforts against
awarding
of the medal are based on any feeling of anti-Semitism.

Efforts to gain the Medal of Honor began anew two years ago when Rubitsky
learned during the course of a Janesville reunion of veterans of
Wisconsin's 32nd Infantry Division that he had been recommended for the
Medal of Honor in 1942 after the New Guinea skirmish. He said he had been
told that the recommendation had not been sent up the chain of command
because a superior officer did not think a Medal of Honour should go to a
Jew.

Some of the same verterans who served with him in the Pacific and grew up
with him in the Edgerton area, "were among those who used to taunt me with
anti-Semitic remarks," Rubitsky said.

*******************************************************************************

The denouement to the Rubitsky affair appeared in this small item in the
January 31, 1990, issue of The Janesville (WI) Gazette:

                 Study rejects Rubitsky's claim of anti-Semitism

MILWAUKEE--The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith said it doubts a
Milton man was denied a Congressional Medal of Honor because of
anti-Semitism in World War II.

David S. Rubitsky, 72, has petitioned unsuccessfully for the medal,
submitting letters from supporters that say he earned the honor while with
the 128th Infantry during the Buna campaign on New Guinea in 1942.

A Defense Department review panel said last year it found no evidence in
U.S. or Japanese military records to support the claim that Rubitsky
killed 500 enemy soldiers single-handedly.

Abraham H. Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League, said this month
in a letter to lt. Col. Terrence Adkins, chief of the Army's military
awards office, that a league investigation could not substantiate the
claim.

"Based on all the evidence presented to us, we are convinced beyond any
reasonable doubt that Mr. Rubitsky's account of his actions at Buna and
his allegations that anti-Semitism prevented him from receiving a
Congressional Medal of Honor are unfounded."

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sun Sep 24 07:54:27 PDT 1995
Article: 9942 of alt.conspiracy
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: David Rubitsky: A Legend in His Own Mind
Date: 22 Sep 1995 05:19:15 GMT
Organization: CADVision
Lines: 128
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

As a veteran of World War Two, David Rubitsky claimed that all alone he
managed to kill 500 Japanese soldiers in the battle for New Guinea on
December 1, 1942.

Rubitsky, an American Jew, also claimed he was denied a Congressional
Medal of Honour because of anti-Semitism. 

Assisted by the Anti-Defamation League and a largely sympathetic media
[see the newspaper articles at the end], Rubitsky sought the recognition
he said he had earned by his wartime valour and heroism.

Because of the lobbying efforts of the ADL, including a resolution signed
by 92 members of Congress, in 1987 the U.S. Army undertook a two-year
review of David Rubitsky's story.

On December 8, 1989, after obtaining evidence from forensic specialists
and taking statements from Rubitsky and 20 others who served alongside
him,the U.S. Army concluded that Rubitsky's claim was unfounded.

Quite apart from his wild story, Rubitsky's claim was marred by
controversy from the beginning. The headline bannered in the Madison, WI,
Capitol Times said it all: "WW II Soldier Started Anti-Semitism Battle
Early In Life." Newspaper and magazine articles, with references to
"anti-Semitism," appeared in such prestige publications as TIME and the
New York Times. The storyline was simple: Rubitsky, a war hero, was not
being rightly celebrated as one because of "anti-Semitism."

But members of Rubitsky's old World War II unit disputed his claim and
called it a hoax. George Hess, a member of Rubitsky's infantry regiment
said, "It is the biggest fairy tale anybody has ever told the U.S. Army to
get a medal."

Claire O. Ehle said the claim was "one big hoax" and that Rubitsky was
"hiding behind a smokescreen of anti-Semitism to cover up his flimsy,
unsubstantiated fairy tale."

On February 9, 1990, two months after the U.S. Army report,Jewish Week reported
that the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) had finally conceded the Army's position.

After that, the story faded.

But its cautionary value remains.

*******************************************************************************

Here is John Patrick Hunter's piece in the Madison (WI) Capital-Times for
November 29, 1989:

              WWII solder started anti-Semitism battle early in life
 
The alleged anti-Semitism that may have deprived David Rubitsky of a Medal
of Honor, the nation's highest military decoration, has dogged Milton's
Jewish infantry veteran since he was a child in small town Wisconsin.

"Once again, I am taking suffering from these people who crucified me as a
kid," Rubitsky said.

The Army is conducting a 22-month review of a claim by Rubitsky and two of
his wartime commanders that he killed more than 500 Japanese soldiers in a
World War II encounter in New Guinea, but that he was denied the medal
because he was a Jew.

Rubitsky,in a visit to The Capitol-Times, said he was subjected to racist
taunts even as a youngster growing up in Edgerton.

He was one of a family of nine children, seven boys and two girls, of a
Russian Jewish immigrant family. "They used to put white crosses on our
lawn," he said.

Rubitsky said his family was the only Jewish family in that Rock County
comunity.

Efforts to discredit Rubitsky's wartime exploits have been mounted by a
small group of men who were also in the Red Arrow division.Two of them
recently told The Capitol Hill Times that Rubitsky's claim is a hoax.

"If medals were given for fairy tales, Rubitsky richly deserved one,"
Claire Ehle of Evansville said in a letter. He said his protest is being
supported by Rolland McIntyre, Elgin Faye, Robert Burdick and Clifford
Mason, Rock County veterans who also served in New Guinea in 1942-43.

Ehle and McIntyre brought their complaints against the Rubitsky claim to
The Capitol Times last week.Both men strongly denied their efforts against
awarding
of the medal are based on any feeling of anti-Semitism.

Efforts to gain the Medal of Honor began anew two years ago when Rubitsky
learned during the course of a Janesville reunion of veterans of
Wisconsin's 32nd Infantry Division that he had been recommended for the
Medal of Honor in 1942 after the New Guinea skirmish. He said he had been
told that the recommendation had not been sent up the chain of command
because a superior officer did not think a Medal of Honour should go to a
Jew.

Some of the same verterans who served with him in the Pacific and grew up
with him in the Edgerton area, "were among those who used to taunt me with
anti-Semitic remarks," Rubitsky said.

*******************************************************************************

The denouement to the Rubitsky affair appeared in this small item in the
January 31, 1990, issue of The Janesville (WI) Gazette:

                 Study rejects Rubitsky's claim of anti-Semitism

MILWAUKEE--The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith said it doubts a
Milton man was denied a Congressional Medal of Honor because of
anti-Semitism in World War II.

David S. Rubitsky, 72, has petitioned unsuccessfully for the medal,
submitting letters from supporters that say he earned the honor while with
the 128th Infantry during the Buna campaign on New Guinea in 1942.

A Defense Department review panel said last year it found no evidence in
U.S. or Japanese military records to support the claim that Rubitsky
killed 500 enemy soldiers single-handedly.

Abraham H. Foxman, director of the Anti-Defamation League, said this month
in a letter to lt. Col. Terrence Adkins, chief of the Army's military
awards office, that a league investigation could not substantiate the
claim.

"Based on all the evidence presented to us, we are convinced beyond any
reasonable doubt that Mr. Rubitsky's account of his actions at Buna and
his allegations that anti-Semitism prevented him from receiving a
Congressional Medal of Honor are unfounded."

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 08:45:24 PDT 1995
Article: 9654 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.insinc.net!cadvision.com!cad27.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman'...
Date: 29 Sep 1995 04:24:20 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

           Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman,' publishing trial told

One of the world's leading authorities on the Holocaust has quoted
selectively and extensively a German SS officer who was obviously a
madman, the defence at the Ernst Zundel trial has alleged.

Among the claims sworn to by the Nazi, who ultimately hanged himself while
awaiting trial for war crimes, was a statement that 25 million Jews were
killed in two small extermination camps and that 700 to 800 people could
be crammed into a 25-square metre gas chamber.

"Don't you think it reflects on an author that some statements are
absolutely ridiculous?" defence counsel Douglas Christie asked Raul
Hilberg, a professor at the University of Vermont who has spent more than
35 years studying the Holocaust.

Mr. Zundel is charged with two counts of publishing false news which
caused or was likely to cause racial or social intolerance. His articles
question the Holocaust and postulate an international conspiracy of
Communists, Zionists, bankers and secret societies. The Crown must prove
Mr. Zundel knew the information was false.

Professor Hilberg agreed that Obersturmbanfuehrer Kurt Gerstein, the SS
officer, was most unreliable on some topics covered in sworn affidavits.
But Prof. Hilberg defended his decision to quote the officer on other
subjects in a book he wrote on the Holocaust.

Obersturmbanfuehrer Gerstein was one of the few people who could provide
information about gas chambers at the Treblinka and Belzec camps in
Poland, Prof. Hilberg explained.

The officer said he was responsible for dispensing poison to several camps
in Poland to be used to kill internees.

"Beyond that, I realized, of course, what kind of person he was and I did
not rely on any statements I regarded as imaginative or incredible," the
witness said. "I think he was given to great excitability. What can you
say?"

"You could say he was crazy," Mr. Christie said crisply. The lawyer
accused Prof. Hilberg of quoting only those statements from the "madman"
which bolstered conventional ideas on the Holocaust.

"I'm not making diagnoses here," Prof. Hilberg replied. "I would not
characterize him as totlally rational, but I'm not here making those kinds
of judgments."

Prof. Hilberg has been accepted as an expert witness. He has testified
that about five million [sic] Jews were exterminated by the Nazis.

Yesterday, he said some of the SS officer's claims were outrageous, while
others, such as the number of people who could fit into a chamber
warranted skepticism.

He said it was intellectually sound to use the portions which withstood
scrutiny or seemed plausible, while making no mention of the outlandish
statements. "For my purposes, it sufficed that there were gas chambers,"
he said.

Mr. Christie maintained that if Prof. Hilberg can quote selectively with
impunity, then his client is not guilty of any sin either.

For most of the morning session, Mr. Christie engaged in a grim battle
over what really tok place during the last days of the Warsaw ghetto
uprising and whether documents exist to show Adolf Hitler actually ordered
the extermination of the Jews.

Prof. Hilberg said nobody has to believe or try to verify there was such
an order just because he concludes in his book there was.

Mr. Christie then asked if that statement could not also apply to the
articles Mr. Zundel is charged with publishing.

"No, it is not the same," Prof. Hilberg said.

The argument was typical of the strenuous going-over Prof. Hilberg's
writings and previous testimony are getting at the hands of Mr. Christie.
The lawyer demands precise sources for everything and then frequently
criticizes those.

One protracted argument concerned the use of the word "resettle" in Nazi
reports and whether it was a euphemism for annihilate, as Prof. Hilberg
fiercely maintained.

The word used was relocate," Mr. Christie said at one point. "To me that
doesn't mean annihilate."

"That's the difference between you and me," the witness replied hotly.
"I've read thousands of documents. I know what it means in the context."

"You alone understand, right?" Mr. Christie asked sarcastically.

Later, Mr. Christie questioned whether crematoria Prof. Hilberg saw on a
recent trip to Poland were really as the Germans left them.

"They were as you've been told the Germans left them, right?" he asked.

"I was not present when these buildings were blown up," Prof. Hilberg said
in exasperation.

[end of article]

                                           Kirk Makin
                              The Globe and Mail, January 17, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 08:45:25 PDT 1995
Article: 9656 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!news3.insinc.net!cadvision.com!cad27.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Expert's Admission
Date: 29 Sep 1995 04:24:47 GMT
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             Expert's Admission: Some gas death 'facts' nonsense

A Holocaust expert yesterday admitted at the Ernst Zundel trial that some
of his facts on gas chambers came from a man who spoke "pure nonsense.

"I think that Gerstein was somewhat given to great excitability," Dr. Raul
Hilberg, a professor at the University of Vermont, told the 12-member
jury.

"He was capable of adding imagination to fact."

Kurt Gerstein was an SS officer in charge of delivering gases to Nazi
conentration camps.

He swore affadavits at the Nuremberg trials which tried and convicted some
accused war criminals.

Under cross examination by Zundel's lawyer, Doug Christie, of Victoria,
B.C., Hilberg admitted he quoted Gerstein 10 times in his book The
Destruction of the European Jews to describe the use of gas chambers to
kill Jews in camps which existed for their extermination.

However, he said he edited out the parts of Gerstein's statement that were
"pure nonsense," using only that which was "credible and corroborated.

"He's an important witness for the fact of the existence of these camps,
especially Belzec, and the gassings that took place there," said Hilberg.

Gerstein swore that 700 to 800 people were packed onto spaces which were
25 square meters.

"Well, I have made calculations and it's quite amazing how many people you
can squeeze into a space," said Hilberg.

He dismissed as "totally false" a statement by Gerstein that Hitler
attended gassings.

Hilberg also admitted that no specific record exists of what Hitler's
orders regarding the Jews were and whether in fact he had officially
ordered them murdered.

He said a general's report on Hitler's order exists.

"There is no precise, clear answer as to what the specific wording was,"
he said. "This order was to the armed forces and the einsatzgruppen
(mobile death units)."

Zundel, 46, a Toronto publisher, has pleaded not guilty to two counts of
publishing statements he knew were false and would incite people to commit
mischief.

In one he disputes the number of Jews who died during World War II and
that the Nazi's [sic] had a deliberate extermination policy.

In the other he says Zionists, bankers, Communists and Freemasons are
involved in a world-wide conspiracy to promote Jews to power to further
Zionists goals.

The trial continues.

[end of article]                        Maria Bohuslawsky, Staff Writer
                                        The Toronto Sun, January 17, 1985


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 08:45:25 PDT 1995
Article: 9791 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!news.dfn.de!Germany.EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!emory!metro.atlanta.com!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!cadvision.com!cadb181.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman'...
Date: 30 Sep 1995 02:06:59 GMT
Organization: CADVision
Lines: 28
Message-ID: 
References:  <44hb65$h55@blackice.winternet.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: cadb181.cadvision.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30

In article <44hb65$h55@blackice.winternet.com>, joelr@winternet.com (Joel
Rosenberg) wrote:

> slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura) wrote:
> 
> >           Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman,' publishing trial told
> 
> >One of the world's leading authorities on the Holocaust has quoted
> >selectively and extensively a German SS officer who was obviously a
> >madman, the defence at the Ernst Zundel trial has alleged.
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> Yeah; they would.
> 
> 
> _____________________________________________________
> http://www.winternet.com/~joelr
> ______________________________________________________

*******************************************************************************

Dear JR,

What about, as broadcaster Paul Harvey would say, the "rest of the story?"

OS

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 08:45:26 PDT 1995
Article: 9853 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!plug.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!cadvision.com!cad189.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Lawyer challenges crematoria theory
Date: 30 Sep 1995 04:55:16 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0b30


           Witness indecisive: Lawyer challenges crematoria theory

Ernst Zundel's lawyer challenged the testimony of a Holocaust survivor
yesterday, telling the man he couldn't have seen concentration camp
chimneys belch smoke and flames from exterminated Jews because crematoria
don't emit anything.

"I suggest it is quite impossible for smoke  to come from a crematoria
>from  human beings," said Doug Christie, whose client is charged with
spreading false news. "What do you say about that, sir?"

"Nothing," Arnold Friedman, prisoner number B14515, initially replied. "If
you're talking of crematoria in Toronto and crematoria in Auschwitz, those
are two different things. In Birkenau (part of Auschwitz complex), smoke
came out of the chimney."

"I put it to you that you don't really understand anything about
crematoria, to say: 'Aha, that is a crematorium,' because that is quite
wrong, sir," Mr. Christie said. 

Many observers in the packed  courtroom were left shaking their heads or
fidgeting uncomfortably as Mr. Friedman, 56, then agreed that perhaps Jews
were not being burnt in the chimneyed buildings.

Over a two-day span, Mr. Friedman has testified  repeatedly to seeing
thousands of boys herded toward the crematoria, and of seeing trainloads
of people unloaded near the ominous buildings.

He told of how he and other internees even thought they could tell 
whether fat or skinny people, Ukrainians or Poles, were being cremated by
looking at the color of the smoke.

Mr. Friedman's sudden indecision in the face of Mr. Christie's forceful
questioning touched off an almost-perceptible shockwave in the courtroom.
"Couldn't there have been other explanations (for the smoke and flames)?"
Mr. Christie asked, pressing home his advantage.

"Yes, there could have," Mr. Friedman replied. "If I had listened to you
at the time when I was listening to other people (in the camp), I might 
have listened to you. But at the time I listened to them."

The dramatic testimony took place at the trial of Ernst Zundel, who has
pleaded not guilty to two charges of knowingly publishing false news which
caused or was to cause damage to social and racial tolerance.

In one of two articles  forming the subject of the charges, the author
maintains information on the Holocaust has been grossly exaggerated or
faked.  One of the Crown's tasks is to prove Mr. Zundel knew the articles
were false.

                             Kirk Makin, The Toronto Globe and Mail
                                   Saturday, January 12, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 10:17:02 PDT 1995
Article: 9879 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!news3.insinc.net!cadvision.com!cad162.cadvision.com!user
From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A false Witness: Elie Wiesel
Date: 30 Sep 1995 03:25:44 GMT
Organization: CADVision
Lines: 79
Message-ID: 
References: <43qb14$ih3@inforamp.net>  <811810957snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <811932128snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  
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In article ,
greg.ihr@kaiwan.com (Greg Raven) wrote:

> In article , kfilan@netcom.com (kevin
filan) wrote:
> 
> >         Is it somehow _impossible_ that human beings _could be_ thrown 
> > into burning pits? (Not saying that they were right now; just saying that 
> > they _might be_.  Is there some reason that you _couldn't_ throw a baby 
> > into a burning pit, other than "Al Baron says you couldn't?")
> 
> Perhaps this is a reference to the fact that fire needs oxygen (among
> other things). In a pit, oxygen is in short supply. Robert Faurisson once
> challenged Jean-Claude Pressac to burn the cadaver of a rabbit in a pit,
> which Pressac attempted in his back yard. The cadaver was not consumed,
> however, because of the physics of fire.
> 
> Unless someone can show that human corpses have some special properties
> that allow them to burn well under such conditions, pit-burning of corpses
> or babies or anything else is unlikely.
> 
> -- 
> Greg Raven (greg.ihr@kaiwan.com)
> Or, come visit my home page at http://www.kaiwan.com/~greg.ihr
> The Institute for Historical Review can be reached at:
> P.O. Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659

*******************************************************************************

Look, Elie Wiesel himself candidly admits that he's not above fabricating
and mythologizing to suit the occasion. Consider the introduction to
Wiesel's aptly named book Legends of Our Time. (Incidentally, my copy of
Webster's Encycopedic Dictionary defines "legend" as "a story, handed down
>from  the past, which lacks accurate historical evidence but has been, and
may still be popularly accepted as true.") These lines should give one
pause [Holt, Rinehart, and Winston: New York, 1968, p, viii]:

"'What are you writing?" the Rebbe asked. "Stories,' I said. He wanted to
know what kind of stories: true stories. 'About people you knew?' Yes,
about people I MIGHT HAVE [emphasis mine] known. 'About things that
happened?' Yes, about things that happened or COULD HAVE [emphasis mine]
happened. 'But they did not?' No, NOT ALL [emphasis mine] of them did. In
fact, SOME WERE INVENTED FROM ALMOST THE BEGINNING TO ALMOST THE END
[emphasis mine]. The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me [i.e., Elie
Wiesel] up and said with more sorrow than anger: 'That means that you are
writing LIES' [emphasis mine]. I did not answer immediately. The scolded
child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify
myself: "Things are not that simple, Rebbe. SOME EVENTS DO TAKE PLACE BUT
ARE NOT TRUE;OTHERS ARE--ALTHOUGH THEY NEVER OCCURRED'
[emphasis mine].

For those who feel they cannot trust the opinion of revisionists like a
Greg Raven, or a Robert Faurisson, relative to the trustworthiness of
Wiesel as an eyewitness to the Holocaust, consider then the view of the
French Holocaust historian, Pierre Vidal-Naquet, Wiesel's co-religionist
and, like him, a strong anti-revisionist activist [see: the French
journal, Zero, April 1987, p, 57]:

"For example, you have Rabbi Kahane, that extremist Jew, who is less
dangerous than a man like Elie Wiesel, who will say JUST ABOUT
ANYTHING...[emphasis mine] 
Reading some of the descriptions in Night is enough to make you realize
that they are not accurate and that he ends up turning himself into a
Shoah merchant...And in fact he also harms, greatly harms, historical
truth."

And there you have it, summed up in two words: Shoah merchant. Elie
Wiesel, in the view of Pierre Vidal-Naquet, is a "Shoah merchant."  In
other words, a kind of Holocaust P.T. Barnum.

Should anyone run into Elie Wiesel at some big public ceremony where he's
been invited to personify Mr. Moral Authority, don't ask him what he
thinks of, say,
Professor Robert Faurisson. Why bother, eh? Ask instead: Elie, say what do
you think of Pierre Vidal-Naquet?

OS

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 12:10:26 PDT 1995
Article: 11099 of alt.conspiracy
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman'...
Date: 29 Sep 1995 05:20:00 GMT
Organization: CADVision
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           Holocaust scholar quoted 'madman,' publishing trial told

One of the world's leading authorities on the Holocaust has quoted
selectively and extensively a German SS officer who was obviously a
madman, the defence at the Ernst Zundel trial has alleged.

Among the claims sworn to by the Nazi, who ultimately hanged himself while
awaiting trial for war crimes, was a statement that 25 million Jews were
killed in two small extermination camps and that 700 to 800 people could
be crammed into a 25-square metre gas chamber.

"Don't you think it reflects on an author that some statements are
absolutely ridiculous?" defence counsel Douglas Christie asked Raul
Hilberg, a professor at the University of Vermont who has spent more than
35 years studying the Holocaust.

Mr. Zundel is charged with two counts of publishing false news which
caused or was likely to cause racial or social intolerance. His articles
question the Holocaust and postulate an international conspiracy of
Communists, Zionists, bankers and secret societies. The Crown must prove
Mr. Zundel knew the information was false.

Professor Hilberg agreed that Obersturmbanfuehrer Kurt Gerstein, the SS
officer, was most unreliable on some topics covered in sworn affidavits.
But Prof. Hilberg defended his decision to quote the officer on other
subjects in a book he wrote on the Holocaust.

Obersturmbanfuehrer Gerstein was one of the few people who could provide
information about gas chambers at the Treblinka and Belzec camps in
Poland, Prof. Hilberg explained.

The officer said he was responsible for dispensing poison to several camps
in Poland to be used to kill internees.

"Beyond that, I realized, of course, what kind of person he was and I did
not rely on any statements I regarded as imaginative or incredible," the
witness said. "I think he was given to great excitability. What can you
say?"

"You could say he was crazy," Mr. Christie said crisply. The lawyer
accused Prof. Hilberg of quoting only those statements from the "madman"
which bolstered conventional ideas on the Holocaust.

"I'm not making diagnoses here," Prof. Hilberg replied. "I would not
characterize him as totlally rational, but I'm not here making those kinds
of judgments."

Prof. Hilberg has been accepted as an expert witness. He has testified
that about five million [sic] Jews were exterminated by the Nazis.

Yesterday, he said some of the SS officer's claims were outrageous, while
others, such as the number of people who could fit into a chamber
warranted skepticism.

He said it was intellectually sound to use the portions which withstood
scrutiny or seemed plausible, while making no mention of the outlandish
statements. "For my purposes, it sufficed that there were gas chambers,"
he said.

Mr. Christie maintained that if Prof. Hilberg can quote selectively with
impunity, then his client is not guilty of any sin either.

For most of the morning session, Mr. Christie engaged in a grim battle
over what really tok place during the last days of the Warsaw ghetto
uprising and whether documents exist to show Adolf Hitler actually ordered
the extermination of the Jews.

Prof. Hilberg said nobody has to believe or try to verify there was such
an order just because he concludes in his book there was.

Mr. Christie then asked if that statement could not also apply to the
articles Mr. Zundel is charged with publishing.

"No, it is not the same," Prof. Hilberg said.

The argument was typical of the strenuous going-over Prof. Hilberg's
writings and previous testimony are getting at the hands of Mr. Christie.
The lawyer demands precise sources for everything and then frequently
criticizes those.

One protracted argument concerned the use of the word "resettle" in Nazi
reports and whether it was a euphemism for annihilate, as Prof. Hilberg
fiercely maintained.

The word used was relocate," Mr. Christie said at one point. "To me that
doesn't mean annihilate."

"That's the difference between you and me," the witness replied hotly.
"I've read thousands of documents. I know what it means in the context."

"You alone understand, right?" Mr. Christie asked sarcastically.

Later, Mr. Christie questioned whether crematoria Prof. Hilberg saw on a
recent trip to Poland were really as the Germans left them.

"They were as you've been told the Germans left them, right?" he asked.

"I was not present when these buildings were blown up," Prof. Hilberg said
in exasperation.



                                           Kirk Makin
                              The Globe and Mail, January 17, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 12:10:27 PDT 1995
Article: 11111 of alt.conspiracy
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Expert's Admission
Date: 29 Sep 1995 05:19:17 GMT
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             Expert's Admission: Some gas death 'facts' nonsense

A Holocaust expert yesterday admitted at the Ernst Zundel trial that some
of his facts on gas chambers came from a man who spoke "pure nonsense.

"I think that Gerstein was somewhat given to great excitability," Dr. Raul
Hilberg, a professor at the University of Vermont, told the 12-member
jury.

"He was capable of adding imagination to fact."

Kurt Gerstein was an SS officer in charge of delivering gases to Nazi
conentration camps.

He swore affadavits at the Nuremberg trials which tried and convicted some
accused war criminals.

Under cross examination by Zundel's lawyer, Doug Christie, of Victoria,
B.C., Hilberg admitted he quoted Gerstein 10 times in his book The
Destruction of the European Jews to describe the use of gas chambers to
kill Jews in camps which existed for their extermination.

However, he said he edited out the parts of Gerstein's statement that were
"pure nonsense," using only that which was "credible and corroborated.

"He's an important witness for the fact of the existence of these camps,
especially Belzec, and the gassings that took place there," said Hilberg.

Gerstein swore that 700 to 800 people were packed onto spaces which were
25 square meters.

"Well, I have made calculations and it's quite amazing how many people you
can squeeze into a space," said Hilberg.

He dismissed as "totally false" a statement by Gerstein that Hitler
attended gassings.

Hilberg also admitted that no specific record exists of what Hitler's
orders regarding the Jews were and whether in fact he had officially
ordered them murdered.

He said a general's report on Hitler's order exists.

"There is no precise, clear answer as to what the specific wording was,"
he said. "This order was to the armed forces and the einsatzgruppen
(mobile death units)."

Zundel, 46, a Toronto publisher, has pleaded not guilty to two counts of
publishing statements he knew were false and would incite people to commit
mischief.

In one he disputes the number of Jews who died during World War II and
that the Nazi's [sic] had a deliberate extermination policy.

In the other he says Zionists, bankers, Communists and Freemasons are
involved in a world-wide conspiracy to promote Jews to power to further
Zionists goals.

The trial continues.

[end of article]                        Maria Bohuslawsky, Staff Writer
                                        The Toronto Sun, January 17, 1985


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 12:10:28 PDT 1995
Article: 11193 of alt.conspiracy
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Lawyer challenges crematoria theory
Date: 30 Sep 1995 05:18:33 GMT
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           Witness indecisive: Lawyer challenges crematoria theory

Ernst Zundel's lawyer challenged the testimony of a Holocaust survivor
yesterday, telling the man he couldn't have seen concentration camp
chimneys belch smoke and flames from exterminated Jews because crematoria
don't emit anything.

"I suggest it is quite impossible for smoke  to come from a crematoria
>from  human beings," said Doug Christie, whose client is charged with
spreading false news. "What do you say about that, sir?"

"Nothing," Arnold Friedman, prisoner number B14515, initially replied. "If
you're talking of crematoria in Toronto and crematoria in Auschwitz, those
are two different things. In Birkenau (part of Auschwitz complex), smoke
came out of the chimney."

"I put it to you that you don't really understand anything about
crematoria, to say: 'Aha, that is a crematorium,' because that is quite
wrong, sir," Mr. Christie said. 

Many observers in the packed  courtroom were left shaking their heads or
fidgeting uncomfortably as Mr. Friedman, 56, then agreed that perhaps Jews
were not being burnt in the chimneyed buildings.

Over a two-day span, Mr. Friedman has testified  repeatedly to seeing
thousands of boys herded toward the crematoria, and of seeing trainloads
of people unloaded near the ominous buildings.

He told of how he and other internees even thought they could tell 
whether fat or skinny people, Ukrainians or Poles, were being cremated by
looking at the color of the smoke.

Mr. Friedman's sudden indecision in the face of Mr. Christie's forceful
questioning touched off an almost-perceptible shockwave in the courtroom.
"Couldn't there have been other explanations (for the smoke and flames)?"
Mr. Christie asked, pressing home his advantage.

"Yes, there could have," Mr. Friedman replied. "If I had listened to you
at the time when I was listening to other people (in the camp), I might 
have listened to you. But at the time I listened to them."

The dramatic testimony took place at the trial of Ernst Zundel, who has
pleaded not guilty to two charges of knowingly publishing false news which
caused or was to cause damage to social and racial tolerance.

In one of two articles  forming the subject of the charges, the author
maintains information on the Holocaust has been grossly exaggerated or
faked.  One of the Crown's tasks is to prove Mr. Zundel knew the articles
were false.

                             Kirk Makin, The Toronto Globe and Mail
                                   Saturday, January 12, 1985

*******************************************************************************


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 15:58:37 PDT 1995
Article: 9927 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Who's to say who did what?
Date: 30 Sep 1995 04:55:48 GMT
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                         Who's to say who did what?

The Second World War was fought for many reasons, one of them having been
a world in which justice rules. But to some, justice is revenge.

Revenge is on the table where the prosecution of alleged Nazi war
criminals is concerned.Thus, 50 years after it all ended,the Canadian
Jewish Congress (CJC), B'nai B'rith, and other Jewish groups are still
demanding trials and the expulsion from Canada of those they deem to be
guilty.

A recent news report was to the effect than an 82-year-old in Toronto by
the name of Joseph Nemsila "blinded by the lights of TV cameras...wandered
in confusion yesterday after his immigration hearing was postponed.

"Eventually...an Immigrationn and Refugee Board information officer...led
Mr. Nemsila down the street and helped him to hail a cab."

I find this sort of thing disgusting. My critics would say, of course,
that what the old man is alleged to have done was a million times more
disgusting.

But there's the rub. half a century on, who is to say who did what?

Remember the infamous case of John Demjanjuk? His accusers said he was
"Ivan the Terrible," a brutal guard at the Treblinka concentration camp.

"I remember his eyes, hus evil eyes," said one witness.

But an Israeli appeal court declared unanimously that he was the wrong
man. Before that, he faced death by hanging. In the U.S., a federal court
found that the organization set up to deal with war criminals--the Office
of Special Investigation--had deliberately withheld evidence that showed
Demjanjuk was not Ivan.

Frank Walus of Chicago was another who was on the point of being sent for
trial in what was then Communist Poland. But as the last minute it was
discovered he could not possibly have been the right man. After so long an
interbal, memories are wildly faulty.

War crimes have led to no convictions in Canada. That's why some suspects
are now facing immigration hearings that could lead to thgeir extradition.
It's simpler for bureaucrats to find them guilty of not having told the
truth about their past when they applied to come here.

As a lawyer in the Justice Department has put it, with unconscious irony:
"We gave it our best shot to put together prosecution cases that just
weren't there. Now, we're looking at other options."

Much to the dismay of B'Nai B'rith, Nemsila's deportation order has just
been dismissed on technical grounds, but that will probably be challenged
in court.

The war criminal hunt in Canada has been going on for nearly 10 years. It
began in 1986 after 660 cases had been studied. Subsequently, 40 lawyers
and RCMP were loosed on the job.

The expense has been huge and the results tiny. Two people lost their
citizenship and in the only case that got to court Imre Finta was found
not guilty.

The Supreme Court of Canada upheld that decision, whereupon a spokesman
for the Simon Wiesenthal Centre said we needed a new Supreme Court.

Natural justice doesn't seem to count for much in these affairs. "Nazi
hunters"   claim that another suspect, 84-year-old Erichs Tobiass, has
admitted he was involved in two separate executions. "Claim" is the
operative word. No details were provided.

Reportedly, lawyers in the Tobiass case will call 54 witnesses from
Canada, England, Israel, Germany, Latvia and the U.S. At what cost? Who
Knows? Who cares? The idea is to satisfy the pressure groups.

Our war crimes legislation was enacted 40 years after the event and covers
people who were not Canadian citizens when the alleged offences took
place.

Although they have finally charged an 87-year-old with having committed
war crimes, the British recently abandoned their search for war criminals.

The Sunday telegraph described that as a victory for common sense, and
said that Britain's War Crimes Bill was "a personal folly of Lady Thatcher
in her last months of office." She was MP for a heavily Jewish
constituency.

We recently celebrated the 50th anniversary of the end of the war in
Europe, where the motto was "Forgiveness and Reconciliation."

Ottawa doesn't seem to have heard about that. Nor has the CJC. 

                                           Doug Collins, on the other hand
                                            North Shore News, Aug. 9, 1995


From slepokuo@cadvision.com Sat Sep 30 15:58:38 PDT 1995
Article: 9956 of alt.revisionism
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From: slepokuo@cadvision.com (Orest Slepokura)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths
Date: 30 Sep 1995 21:51:41 GMT
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     Book 'An Artistic Picture': Survivor never saw actual gassing deaths

A concentration camp survivor yesterday admitted he never witnessed
anybody being gassed to death and his book about Auschwitz-Birkenau in
only "an artistic picture...not a document for a court."

Rudolf Vrba, now an assistant professor at the University of B.C., told
the Ernst Zundel trial that his written and pictorial descriptions of the
Auschwitz crematoria and gas chambers are based on "what I heard it might
look like."

Zundel is charged with knowingly publishing false information about the
Holocaust that harmed or was likely to harm racial or social tolerance. 

Defence attorney Doug Christie, of Victoria, challenged Vrba's earlier
testimony that he saw a Nazi SS soldier in a gasmask pouring poison gas
into a low bunker conected to a Birkenau crematorium.

Vrba yesterday admitted he was never inside that particular bunker, after
Christie suggested it was the roof of a mortuary Vrba had seen, not a gas
chamber.

Vrba also admitted some of the thousands of women, elderly and children he
claimed were marched directly to gas chambers upon arrival might have been
going to the camp's bathhouse.

"Yes. Some of them actually went there (bathhouse) and more went to the
gas chambers," said Vrba, who claimed many babies were gassed to death.

Vrba said his 1944 drawings of the Auschwitz camp layout were inexect and
Christie suggested Vrba didn't even know where the bathhouse was located.
 
Christie said new arrivals had to march between two crematoria to get to
the bathhouse, but Vrba insisted the area ended in a "closed road" and
"nobody ever came out of there except smoke."

Vrba, who escaped the camp in Poland in 1944 with a mission to warn one
million Hungarian Jews of their impending slaughter, insisted he'd made
accurate ("within 10%) estimates of 1,765,000 mass-murder victims up to
that point.

He said some narrative passages in his book I Cannot Forgive are based on
accounts from others.

One Vrba acount says it took 90 minutes to burn a corpse, another said it
took 20 minutes.

"I also include things I heard from reliable sources," Vrba said,
exlaining the changes in his later report.

Vrba's 1961 affadavit quotes a Nuremberg War Crimes Trial document as
relating to Auschwitz gas chambers and claims it backs up Vrba's account.

When Christie pointed out that ("Nazi government") documents say nothing
about gas chambers, Vrba replied: "It might be a typing error."

Vrba, whose book states the total Auschwitz death toll was 2.5 million,
testified Holocaust historians Raul Hilberg and Gerald Rietlinger [sic]
were limited by "historical discipline" when they made lower estimates - 1
million and about 850,000 respectively - and did not have the benefit of
Vrba's eyewitness experiences.

Vrba also said increasing estimates of the Auschwitz death toll in the
decades after World War II [for years it was "officially" held to be 4
million; now, again, "officially," is held to be a number between 1.1 and
1.5 million] "just shows that better scholars with better methods are
constantly improving [sic] the information."

He defended "errors in good faith" in his 1944 Auschwitz accounts, which
he made two weeks after escaping, as due to "great urgency" to warn Jews.

                                       Dick Chapman, Staff Writer
                                       The Toronto Sun, January 24, 1985

*******************************************************************************

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