The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/roberts.jeff/1995/roberts.0995


From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:37 PDT 1995
Article: 5670 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: But, they CLEARLY didn't know what they were talking about."
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:10:29 GMT
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In article: <410ev9$p1o@access5.digex.net>  mstein@access5.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
> 
> In article <410bcj$fn7@news.dknet.dk>, 
> Ole Kreiberg  wrote:
> >dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> >>Did you ever burn corpses, Kreiberg? have you got any idea
> >>what you are talking about? Answer the question. Did you
> >>ever experiment in burning corpses? Yes or no?


"did you ever burn corpses, Kreiberg?"

Only Karen could ask such a question.
Still, Karen may be a expert on corpse-burning. 
After all, he's an expert on abuse. Especially self-abuse. 


ok>  I have often heard the allegation, that in Auschwitz it was possible to 
ok>cremate 12000 corpses a day in 46 ovens.
 
ms>     Well, here is part of your problem.  I strongly advise you not to 
ms> get your historical information on streetcorners; what you have heard is
ms> nothing like what is in the historical record.  First, there were 52 
ms> ovens
ms> - 46 were in Birkenau, and six more were in Krema I in Auschwitz.  
ms> Second,
ms> the estimate in an SS document (which is acknowledged to be overly
ms> optimistic) 

"optimistic" ?


in a previous article Mr Stein wrote :- 
    It is ludicrous, don't get me wrong.  Pressac says the same thing. 
But the critical issue is this: was that memo a forgery?  What evidence do
you have?  Because authentic memos can make mistakes, even ludicrous ones. 
And authentic memos with mistakes can still serve as evidence of a sort. 


ms> of their theoretical maximum cremation capacity is a bit shy
ms> of 4800 assuming round-the-clock operation of all 52 ovens. 
ms> 
ms>     I don't know who gave you that cremation figure of 12,000 into 46
ms> ovens (with, I presume, no pit burning), but they clearly didn't know 
ms> what they were talking about.
 
 

Well, whoever it was, it's the same estimate as the Polish Commission of 
Inquiry who estimated a crematory rate of 12,000 a day. (1) but
they clearly didn't know what they are talking about, either.

And Hoess the camp commandant of Auschwitz,  (1) 'estimated ' a  lunatic 
16,000 a day, one would have thought he would have known....... 

Both these estimates are LUDICROUS. 

But why?


 
Read what a cremation expert would estimate:- 

Check out:- 

The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by Robert Lenski.

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 
92659 USA.

-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:38 PDT 1995
Article: 5671 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CREMATORIA FUNCTION AS "INCINERATORS" NOT CREMATORIA
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:25:22 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 86
Message-ID: <311510146wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <40gj9d$gi6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article: <40gj9d$gi6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>  jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca 
(John Morris) writes:

jm> It might help clarify the situation if we called the crematorias
 "incinerators" instead, for that is what they were.

Jeff  wrote:
J> The crematorias are now "incinerators". So why didn't the SS build 
incinerators? Perhaps "crematoria is just another "codeword"? Just like 
"In readiness for transport" or "passed through" are "codewords" for  
gassing, etc etc [its a long list.] 

 
jm> I make no claim that "crematorias" [sic] was a code word for
> incinerator. But I do claim that that is the function they performed.
> 
> I see that you have ignored my clever arithmetic which showed that
> your own figures could be used to account for the burning of every
> victim during the operating period of the crematoria.

"clever" arithmetic? Crazy, more like.

> And you also ignore the fact that the crematoria did not operate at
> the efficiencies predicted by the SS and by Topf. 
> They did break down from heat stress and burning pits had to be used 
> instead.

No, I didn't.

> 
> But, of course, the Kremas did not dispose of that many bodies by 
> themselves. They were eventually abandoned in favour of burning pits.
> 

J> Burning pits which allied photo-recce planes failed to spot. Just like 
the "death wall", where 20,000 prisoners were shot, making no bullet marks, 
the nazis of course using invisible bullets. 


jm> The Allied reconnaisance photographs concentrate almost entirely on
> the Buna plant. So far as I know, only one photograph of the Birkenau
> extermination centre was taken, and even then, by accident. It shows
> no more than a fraction of the complex. 


The allied photo-recce planes DID concentrate on the Buna [artifical rubber] 
factory. After all it was a important target, and was included amongst the 
secondary bombing objectives of the allies.  
[cf Luftwaffe by Williamson Murray p240]


And it also shows what notice the Allies took of the claims of extermination 
at Birkenau, which was NONE whatsover. 

The allies DID NOT even send ONE photo-recce plane to photo the camp where 
it was claimed genocide of the Jews was taking place. 


jm> So I guess you have a pretty good argument there, Jeff: nonexistent 
photographs show no evidence of burning pits.


So Pressac [an writer on the Holocaust] uses non-existent photographs? 

In article: <3vf0eg$ftf@access2.digex.net>  mstein@access2.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
>     This omits, of course, the pit burning.  On the subject of the aerial 
> photos, Pressac has correlated transport records with the photo dates, 
> and finds that the timing makes it plausible that no transport happened 
> to be processed when the overflights were made.
> 

Of course, Pressac used the photos in the 'function' of photos. It helps.





Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:39 PDT 1995
Article: 5672 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ALLIES PHOTO A RUBBER PLANT BUT IGNORE BIRKENAU
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:45:13 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 73
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References: <40gj9d$gi6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article:<40gj9d$gi6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) writes:

 
> The Allied reconnaisance photographs concentrate almost entirely on
> the Buna plant. So far as I know, only one photograph of the Birkenau
> extermination centre was taken, and even then, by accident. 

[note: The Buna plant was an artificial rubber factory]

The allied photo-recce planes DID concentrate on the Buna [artifical rubber] 
factory. 

Why? It was a very important target, and synthetic rubber plants were  
included amongst the secondary bombing objectives of the allies.  

[Luftwaffe by Williamson Murray p240]

The photos [there was more than one] of Birkenau were taken by accident, as 
the plane started or finished it's run. 




And it also shows what notice the Allies took of the claims of extermination 
at Birkenau, which was NO NOTICE whatsover. 

The allies DID NOT even send ONE photo-recce plane to photo the camp where 
it was claimed genocide of the Jews was taking place. 





QUESTION 1:

How many photo-recce planes did the Americans and British have?


QUESTION 2:

Why did the allies do no aerial photo-reconnaissance of Birkenau? 








Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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In article:   
cmck02@cs.auckland.ac.nz (McKinstry) writes:
> 
> Please ignore
> 
> 
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:40 PDT 1995
Article: 5673 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: "PARK THEM IN THE MARSHY PARTS OF RUSSIA"
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:58:00 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 28
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"From the rostrum of the Reichstag I prophesied to Jewry that if war could 
not be avoided, the Jews would disappear from Europe. 
That race of criminals already had on its conscience the two million dead of 
the Great War, and now it had hundreds of thousands more.
Let nobody tell me that despite that we cannot park them in the marshy parts 
of Russia! Our troops are there as well, and who worries about them!
By the way - its not a bad thing that public rumour attributes to us a plan 
to exterminate Jews. Terror is a salutary thing." 

Adolf Hitler

Remarks taken down by Heinrich Heim [Bormann's Adjutant] on October 25 1941.

>from  Hitlers War[1977 p331/1991 p427] by David Irving.


-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:40 PDT 1995
Article: 5674 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: CREMATION RATE OF 4,400 at Birkenau LUDICROUS says EXPERT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:11:27 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 53
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The following extract is just part of the testimony of Ivan Lagace, a 
funeral director and crematorium manager and operator from Calgary, Alberta. 
Lagace has disposed of more than 10,000 bodies since 1976, and cremated more 
than 1000 since 1984. He has handled victims of fire, accident, and disease, 
and has seen every stage of bodily composition.

He was accorded EXPERT status at the Zundel trial.

Lagace next explained some calculations he had made after studying the plans 
for the 46 retortsa at Birkenau.(Auschwitz II)
Christie [defence counsel for Zundel] asked him how these compared to the 
plans for his own crematorium.
Well, said Lagace, When I first looked at these [Birkenau plans], I was 
amazed." The specifications were almost identical to his own retort, 
including the unusually high 45-foot stack. Based on the afterburner design, 
he added, it is obvious they were concerned with environmental effects. 
There would be no smoke and no odor."
Lagace estimated that the 46 retorts at Birkenau could handle about 184 
bodies daily, or four apiece.
But, asked Christie, what about Raul Hilberg's estimate of 4,400 cremations 
per day at Birkenau?
Well," said Lagace, that's preposterous, in my eyes. It's beyond the realm 
of reality."
Christie asked if operating 24 hours a day would raise the output.
Just the opposite, insisted Lagace, it would shorten the lifespan of the 
refractory" and create costly delays.
Christie read to Lagace from Hilberg's account of a period in 1944 when 
about 10,000 Jews a day were allegedly being gassed at Birkenau, and asked 
again if the 46 retorts could have cremated 4,400 of the victims daily.
Lagace: It would be ludicrous to say something like that.


[Page 252 From the The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.




-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:41 PDT 1995
Article: 5675 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ALLEGATION of 17,000 MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS EVAPORATES BEFORE BRITISH COURT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:19:05 GMT
Organization: None
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A bit later in their booklet ( brought out to counter Richard Harwoods Did 
6 million really die? in  S.Africa ) , Suzman and Diamond dealt with an 
interesting 1964 English civil case called Dering  v. Uris et al. They 
called it a a striking confirmation of the "inhuman medical experiments 
carried out upon Jewish inmates of Auschwitz," and noted that the plaintiff 
Dering alleged he was libelled in the book Exodus by Leon Uris, and won a 
halfpenny  in damages from the jury.
(Professor Robert)  Faurisson  recalled that in the 1960s he read the book 
Auschwitz in England, by two British lawyers, which dealt with  the trial. 
Wladislaw Dering was a Polish surgeon who worked at Auschwitz and was 
accused by Uris of having operated without anesthesia on 17,000 female 
internees.  

Suzman and Diamond declined to give that number, however, because, as 
Faurisson explained, during the course of the trial it melted first to "a 
big number," then to "130 people, men and women", then to "perhaps five 
people," and finally to  "perhaps two or three cases [which] were not quite 
clear." The meltdown was greatly facilitated by Dering's ability to obtain 
>from  the Auschwitz Museum the register of surgical operations, said 
Faurisson, who observed that  the Germans used to put everything in 
writing....We must realize that in Auschwitz when there was one natural 
death, we had 21 signatures, and when it was a [suicide or other unnatural 
death], more than 30 signatures were affixed to a document about the death.
 Where do you get those numbers? asked Christie.
>From  the International Committee of Auschwitz, as published in The Anthology 
of Auschwitz, replied Faurisson.
The Dering trial is very important, he continued. Day after day, they 
eliminated names [of alleged victims]. On  reaching five, "they discovered 
that [even] those operations had not been done without anesthesia, but with 
a kind of anesthesia that was [new] at that time. We call that rachis 
anesthesia which is in the cerebral spine. It is a partial anesthesia."
And where does this information come from? asked Christie [defence counsel 
for Zundel].
>From  Auschwitz in England, said Faurisson.
The jury awarded Dering one halfpenny, but the judge ordered him to pay for 
the trial nevertheless. Dering said, "My honour is saved, but financially I 
am ruined." Soon after, he died of cancer.
Leon Uris's dirty work was not yet complete. He then wrote a play about the 
trial called Queen's Bench 7, and invented a character of a son of Dering 
who attended the trial and became ashamed of his father's past. He  
refrained from using the name of  Dering," however.
In summary, said Faurisson, it's quite clear that [at the beginning] 
everybody was ready to believe that in Auschwitz it as possible to do such a 
thing to 17,000 people."
Is what you have told us indicated anywhere in Suzman and Diamond? asked 
Christie.
No, said Faurisson. "They are veiling the fact that the accusation [of Uris] 
was absolutely terrible." Without the Auschwitz surgical register, he added, 
most of that accusation could have stuck forever.
 
 
[Page 309-310 From the "The Holocaust on Trial ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.]

[Note: the original allegation was made by the Soviets at Nuremberg.]
[cf The Final Solution (1968) by Reitlinger page 190)

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:42 PDT 1995
Article: 5676 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: NO ORDERS TO EXTERMINATE JEWS FOUND WHATSOVER
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:23:22 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 49
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Did you find "any orders for the extermination of Jews" in the archives 
of any country? asked Christie [defence counsel for Zundel].

"None whatsoever," said [David] Irving. And the British were reading 
the code signals of the SS.

What about Himmler, Heydrich, Frank, and other top Nazis? asked 
Christie.

"There are no explicit orders," said Irving, "and this is where the 
academic historians start asking us to read between the lines and find 
fancy translations for certain words and I wouldn't go along with those 
methods. I want in a crime as big as this to find explicit evidence.

What one does find, said Irving, is documents pointing in the other 
direction. For example, in the spring of 1942, Hans Lammers, who was 
something like the German Prime Minister telephoned the Secretary of 
State of the German Ministry of Justice, who made a note of their 
conversation. Lammers said that Hitler had repeatedly said that he 
wanted the solution of the Jewish problem postponed until after the
war. This document, said Irving, "was concealed at Nuremberg", and 
resurfaced only recently. It "takes some explaining, and this is the 
kind of document which embarrasses the [academic] historians."  
   


The testimony of DAVID IRVING, a EXPERT witness at the Zundel trial.

[Page 406 From the The Holocaust on Trial, The case of Ernst Zundel 
by Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 
92659 USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:43 PDT 1995
Article: 5677 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: AIR PHOTOS SHOW NO BURNING PITS AT AUSCHWITZ
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:27:55 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 51
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By 1944 the transports exceeded the crematoriums capacity. The Hungarian 
Jews were being gassed at the daily rate of 10,000 and over; the Lodz Jews 
were killed in a few batches, 20,000 a day.
The Auschwitz SS man in charge of the body disposal, Oberscharfuhrer Moll, 
was working full steam. He employed four Jewish Sonderkommandoes in four 
shifts, a total force of between 1500 and 2000 men. Eight pits were dug, 
each about four by sixty yards in size. On the bottom of the pits the human 
fat was collected and poured back into the the fire with buckets to hasten 
the cremations. Survivors reports that children were sometimes tossed alive 
into the inferno. The rotten remains were cleaned up once in a while with 
flame throwers. Although the corpses burned slowly during rain or misty 
weather, the pits were found to be the cheapest and most efficent method of 
body disposal. In August 1944, when over 20,000 corpses had to be burned on 
some days, the open pits broke the bottleneck.
 [Page 629 The Destruction of the European Jews (1961) by Raul Hilberg]  

Christie (defence counsel for Zundel) turned his attention to the numerous 
aerial photographs of Auschwitz made by the Allies in 1944, and released  in 
1979, and to (Udo) Walendy's "Historical Fact No. 9," whose title posed the 
question, Holocaust Now Underground?
"Could you just tell us," asked Christie, "what it is you indicated on the 
front cover of that publication?"
Walendy: [It's] an enlargement of a section of those aerial photographs 
taken by the American Air Force, showing two crematoria in 
Auschwitz-Birkenau, and also several barracks, these enlargements show that 
the crematoria did not show any smoke around. No dug-out areas [pits] were 
seen. There, apparently, people were buried and burned. It is also shown 
here  [in the booklet] that the Americans, in 1944, photographed the whole 
area every 10 days from a height of 6000 meters, and on not a single one of 
those photographs can smoke be seen coming from the crematoria, and also the 
area around those crematoria did not show what was allegedly to be seen, and 
since that time [1979] there are more and more claims that the Holocaust had 
taken place underground, and it could not have been seen from above ground.


[Page 259  "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by Robert 
Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:44 PDT 1995
Article: 5678 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ALLIED AIR PHOTOS SHOW NO "difficult to conceal" BURNING PITS
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:51:25 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 75
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And now the true clearance (of  400,000 Jews deported from Hungary  in 1944) 
began (at Auschwitz). The supplies (of Zyclon B) were not used all at once 
simply because the crematory fires failed to keep pace. Huge burning 
trenches had to be dug in the open by the Jewish Sonderkommando. But even 
the new gas chambers were not big enough. Mass shootings took place at the 
burning pits and at one of the original small gas chambers in the 
Birkenwald. By such supplementary means, a death output was maintained 6,000 
a day, but it proved difficult to conceal the cremations in the open air, 
the flames and smoke from which were seen. 
[Page 465 The Final Solution by Gerald Reitlinger 1968]  

Christie (defence counsel for Zundel) turned his attention to the numerous 
aerial photographs of Auschwitz made by the Allies in 1944, and released  in 
1979, and to (Udo) Walendy's Historical Fact No. 9," whose title posed the 
question, Holocaust Now Underground?
Could you just tell us," asked Christie, what it is you indicated on the 
front cover of that publication?"
Walendy: [It's] an enlargement of a section of those aerial photographs 
taken by the American Air Force, showing two crematoria in 
Auschwitz-Birkenau, and also several barracks, these enlargements show that 
the crematoria did not show any smoke around. No dug-out areas [pits] were 
seen. There, apparently, people were buried and burned. It is also shown 
here  [in the booklet] that the Americans, in 1944, photographed the whole 
area every 10 days from a height of 6000 meters, and on not a single one of 
those photographs can smoke be seen coming from the crematoria, and also the 
area around those crematoria did not show what was allegedly to be seen, and 
since that time [1979] there are more and more claims that the Holocaust had 
taken place underground, and it could not have been seen from above ground.

[Page 259  "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by Robert 
Lenski.]

CONSIDER THIS:-

The allies ignored Birkenau. They sent over NO photo-recce planes to examine 
the claims of extermination there. The photos were taken by accident, as the 
allies examined the Rubber factory nearby. The photos that were taken, in 
this period show:-  
 
a) NO crematoria chimmeys shooting flames skywards [claimed by inmates]
b) NO mass shootings. [see above]
c) NO smoke from corpse-burning pits. 
["but it proved difficult to conceal the cremations in the open air, the 
flames and smoke from which were seen."] 
d) NO pits with masses of corpses.    
e) NO 'Black wall' where 20,000 POWS were alleged to have been executed. 
f) NO crematoria [which were supposely being used as incinerators] spewing out black smoke. [claimed by inmates]

Question:

Why didn't the air photos show ANY of the above?






The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:44 PDT 1995
Article: 5679 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: EVERY TRACE OF TRANSIT CAMP AT AUSCHWITZ REMOVED
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:14:51 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <833233863wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Aug 31, 1995 19.14.51
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THE SWEDISH RESEARCHER Ditleib Felderer is an acquired taste we admit. Those 
who meet him are shocked by his Far Side appearance. His publicity methods 
have annoyed many revisionists.
This excess baggage having been set out and disposed of, ACTION REPORT  
feels that the one year prison term imposed on Felderer in oh-so-liberal 
Sweden is to  be  regarded as proof; of the harm that he has inflicted,  
both with his biting satire ; and with his expert photography on the legends 
of the Holocaust. 
Probably the sentence was enforced as a belated tribute for having testified 
at the Ernst Zundel trial: since the enemy were thwarted at the last moment 
of their real prey. Zundel was acquitted of all charges on his final appeal 
to the Canadian supreme court, they have spent the years since 1988 hounding 
down all those who contributed to that verdict, from Douglas Christie and 
his staff, and all the defence witnesses.
In England this harassment of witnesses would be seen as contempt of court. 
In North America the laws evidently run differently.

BUT BACK TO FELDERER FIRST, WHAT Was his real offence? Certainly not the 
petty charge of printing satirical and often tasteless Holocaust 
caricatures, and mailing them to Jewish addresses, for which he was jailed 
by the Swedish courts (which normally turn the blindest of eyes on 
pornography). We frown on this kind of tomfoolery; but  we are not as 
sensitive as some, it seems, because we too receive in the mails letters, 
drawings, and literature of the most obscene and threatening kind, yet we do 
not seek to incarcerate our critics.
Felderers real offence was one or which he cannot be forgiven: From 1971  
onwards he systematically visited the holy Auschwitz site and photographed 
it from  every angle.
He made: hundreds of colour transparencies of professional quality for 
example, of the "execution wall" (which mysteriously  does not show up on 
the wartime aerial photos or even in the wartime photos printed in the 
museum's own guidebook: no mystery at all, really, as this wall was erected 
after the war by the Poles, like their reconstructed gas chamber, for the 
tourists to shudder at.
Felderer took his photographs before Auschwitz was denuded of all evidence 
of use to the revisionists (like light switches, wiring, and central heating 
apparatus, and the hospital equipment which testifies to the Nazis' welfare 
concerns for the slave labourers, even though they were Jews); indeed in the 
last three years the Auschwitz authorities, eagerly turning the site into a 
lucrative Theme Park to rival Euro-Disney , have levelled to the ground and 
removed every trace of the site's wartime Transit Camp area, which provided 
partial answer to the oft-posed question: 

Why did the trains arrive at Auschwitz full, and leave empty? 

- As Michael A Hoffmann II wrote in Revisionist Researcher, commenting on 
Felderer's imprisonment: long after the place [Auschwitz] has been altered 
out of recognition as a defence against revisionist criticism, his 
[Felderers] thousands of expert photographs  will stand as the best evidence 
of what a third-rate Hollywood set that place was throughout the 60s, 70s 
and 80s. 
In March there was good news for Felderer. He was kicked out of prison; 
after serving only part of his sentence. It was found that he was using the 
right of Swedish prison inmates to free postage to inundate Europe and North 
America with revisionist publications, printed stickers and further 
questionable cartoons.


[Extract from David Irvings ACTION REPORT MAY 1995.]



Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:45 PDT 1995
Article: 5680 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: EXECUTION WALL A FORGERY  AT AUSCHWITZ
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 18:56:09 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <819614517wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Aug 31, 1995 18.56.09
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <9507190545.AA17813@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  dk@lems.brown.edu 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
> [Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
> Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
> "Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
> "one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
> child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
> Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
> only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
> we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
> chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
> over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
> of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
> prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
> Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
> SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
> they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
> fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
> stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
> as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
> the two next ones were already being shot. Everything went very 
> quickly. The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long. Once
> the following happened: I was carrying the front end of the
> stretcher. Suddenly I heard a voice behind me: "Mr.
> Oberscharfuehrer, you didn't shoot well". Stiewitz had done the
> shooting, and he said: "Shut up, or you'll get it". We had to put
> down the stretcher, and Stiewitz once more shot him in the head.
> 
> 
> 

The "Black Wall" or "Wall of Death" of Auschwitz situated between blocks 10 
and 11, is a place where some 20,000 prisoners were allegedly shot. 
[Ditleib] Felderer was surprised to find a wall only one row of bricks deep, 
which would have been pulverized after two or three rounds, and no bullet 
marks in the area. He never recieved an explanation which satisfied him.  


[Page 133 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.
In article:   
cmck02@cs.auckland.ac.nz (McKinstry) writes:
> 
> Please ignore
> 
> 
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:46 PDT 1995
Article: 5681 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: AMERICANS TORTURE GERMANS TO EXTORT "CONFESSIONS"
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:29:36 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 97
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Aug 31, 1995 19.29.36
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7


         AMERICANS TORTURE GERMANS TO EXTORT "CONFESSIONS".

By Fred Redman

TODAY I am able to tell you the full story, revealed in Washington, of the 
American war trials scandal. It is an ugly story of barbarous tortures 
inflicted in the name of Allied justice. 
It is time the British people knew all the facts. Little has appeared in our 
press until today.
The charge is that American soldiers, building evidence against Germans 
accused of war crimes, have behaved with the same sadistic cruelty as the 
beasts who terrorised Europe when it was under Nazi domination.

The truth has come out through the persistence of an American lawyer and the 
frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled.
Judge Edward Van Roden member of a US Army Commission of Inquiry tells how 
burning matches were forced under the fingernails of a prisoner by American 
investigators to extort a confession. For months, he says, men were kept in 
solitary confinement on near-starvation rations. 
And they were beaten up and savagely kicked until strong men were redeuced 
to broken wrecks ready to mumble any admission demanded by their 
prosecutors. 

The war department have shown the Judges personal report only to General 
Lucius Clay, their military commander in Germany. Washington suspects the 
reason was that it was too shocking for public disclosure. 

....Commission sent to Germany to investigate was was even more candid.
"All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair." he charged.
"this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.
"They would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him in 
the face with brass knuckles."
US Army prosecution teams had he said had posed as priests to hear 
confessions and give absolution.

At mock trials men who refused to confess were confronted by a crucifix
and burning candles. Those sham courts, attended by men in US Army uniform, 
passed sham death sentences. Then the accused were told: "Sign this 
confession and we get you acquitted." 

[The Sunday Pictorial Jan 23rd 1949] 

"The change [of public opinion] followed the notorious case of the American 
Dachau Tribunal. This tribunal which was abolished in December 1947,  
had tried 1,500 Germans and condemned 420 of them to death. In autumn of 
that year Dachau justice became the subject of a commission of investigation 
under Judge Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court. The commission 
recommended that 29 men who were still under sentence ot death should be 
reprieved, and it declared that statements had been obtained both from 
defendents and witnesses by highly questionable means."

[The final solution [1968] by G. Reitlinger. page 548]

CONSIDER :- 

1) The truth only came out "through the persistence of an American lawyer and the frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled. " 

2) "All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair."

3) "this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators."


The 'Americans' tortured defendents. It is known that the 'British' tortured Kramer and Hoess.

QUESTION 1: 

Shouldn't it call into question the validity of confessions given in 
previous trials?

[For example; the "Doctors" Trial, where Germans admitted to Horrific 
medical experiments and gassing the insane.]




QUESTION 2:

If the 'Americans' tortured defendents on such a scale, what did the 
COMMUNISTS do? 



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:47 PDT 1995
Article: 5682 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 2) THE CASE OF GUSTAV PERAT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:38:14 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <670274484wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Aug 31, 1995 19.38.14
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7



5. On 9 May 1945 I was taken to the Moosburg internment camp with about 80 
other prisoners. On 7 September 1945 I had my second interrogation, in 
Moosburg, at which they asked me the same questions they asked in the 
Tittling camp. There too, I received blows from a whip. This consisted of a 
wooden handle about 30 cm  long to which leather straps had been fastened. 
Since I had to answer the questions in the negative, they told me that there 
were other ways and means to force me to tell the truth. Then the 
interrogator left the room for a few minutes, and returned with a second 
interrogator. Since I had to reply to this man's questions in the negative 
also, because I did not know of any killing, he struck me with his fists and 
threatened to "hang" and "shoot" me. After I stuck to my guns, I was taken 
back to my quarters.
On 10 February 1946 I was transferred to the Dachau internment camp.

6. There I was interrogated two times At the interrogation on 21 June 1946 
they read statements to me that said that I had shot eight prisoners in the 
Mauthausen concentration camp. I was to sign this, but I vigorously refused 
because I never shot a prisoner After repeated requests to sign, I was 
struck with fists and kicked with feet. They put a paper in front of me to 
sign in which it said that l had never been beaten by American interrogators 
and soldiers. I refused, and only after repeated blows, with the threat that 
I would never leave the room alive until I had signed, and that they would 
know how to break me down my obstinacy, did I put my name to it. I had never 
had anything to do with the court in my life and I was afraid that they 
would make my life even more difficult.

7. In  January 1947 the so-called "line-ups" commenced  in Dachau Special 
Camp. I was confronted with prisoners three  times, yet not one accused me 
of the least thing. The man in charge of the line-up, Mr. ENTRESS, told the 
prisoners that I was said to have shot many and beaten them to death, where 
at only a burst of laugher arose. At that time I was 22 years old. When I 
was 19.5  I came to Mauthausen as 
dog-leader. A former prominent prisoner, Dr. SANNER, asserted he did not 
know me, but if a dog-leader had beaten prisoners to death or shot them that 
would certainly have become known in the camp. Many other former long-term 
prisoners joined in this exonerating testimony.

8. At rnid-July 1947 I and my seven co-accused were presented for the first 
time to our official defense lawyer, Major Willilm A.OATES. To his question 
whether I knew what I was accused of, and by whom, I could only reply that I 
was not conscious of any guilt and also had never counted on being brought  
to trial, since I had never mistreated or killed anyone.
Major OATES  told me that he too, knew nothing, that he could not get a 
glimpse of the incrirninating papers of the prosecution, and therefore he 
would have to go by my statements, the general charge sheet, and the 
testimony of the prosecution witnesses at the trial.
Since only the prosecution had access to the records, my lawyer did not see 
them, and so naturally it was very difficult for him to prepare a defense. 
Major OATES promised to do everything he could. Also I gave him the names of 
lhe witnesses who were important for me, and who themselves were interned in 
Dachau.

What happened next? Well, it gets much much worse......



Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:48 PDT 1995
Article: 5683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 1) THE CASE OF GUSTAV PERAT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:35:56 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 72
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Petrat's post-conviction plea was in the case file, a forlorn voice from the 
grave which I read with pangs of sorrow. His statement had been prepared in 
German had been submitted to the Military Governor of the US Zone of 
Occupation in English translation. Since no more than a handful of Americans 
have seen this or any other  German "war criminal's" side of the story, I 
reproduce it in its entirety, as follows:

I, Gustav PETRAT, born 12 November 1924 in Wirballen/Litauen [Lithuania], 
presently in Landsberg/Lech, make the following sworn statement after I have 
been informed that this statement is to be submitted to the Military 
Governor of the US Zone and that an false statement may be severely 
punished.

l. In May 1944, on account of my wound, I was transferred to the guard 
personnel of the Mauthausen concentration camp and served there as dog 
leader with the 16th Guard Company. My rank was Corporal (Rottenfuehrer) in 
the Armed (Waffen) SS.

2. On 10 May 1945, I was taken prisoner by American  soldiers in Reid near 
Mauthausen and taken to the Tittling camp. When I got there I was mistreated 
with whips, fists and feet, as was the general custom at that time for newly 
arrived prisoners.

3. Like many others I was quartered in a potato patch in the open air, so 
that we all were exposed to the weather.
The first three days we received nothing to eat, and from the fourth day on 
they gave us one loaf of bread for every 20 prisoners and 1 liter of soup 
for every two men. Under these conditions I lived for some weeks until I was 
totally undernourished, so that it was hardly possible for me to move from 
the spot.

4. On 26 May 1945 I had my first interrogation there, which was one of the 
most memorable of my entire captivity. Even before they asked me the first 
Question, they struck me so that I collapsed. After I had managed to stagger 
upright again in spite of my weak condition and aided by the necessary kicks 
>from  the interrogator, the real interrogation began. They asked me questions 
that I could not have answered if I had the best will in the world to do so. 
I was to state where the leader of the Mauthausen Concentration Camp was. It 
was impossible for me to give the information, since I really didn't know, 
and, as a little corporal I couldn't know. My reply loosed a hail of blows. 
The second question concerned myself. They asked me how many prisoners I had 
shot and beaten, to which I replied truthfully and with a clean conscience, 
"Not one."
Then the interrogator drew a pistol and threatened to kill me if I did not 
tell the truth, immediately. He meant, however, that I should be hanged. I 
told him again that I only spoke the truth and he could kill me if he wanted 
to, that at least I would be freed from the whole mess. Then more blows, and 
with a push in the small of the back I fled [sic].




Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:48 PDT 1995
Article: 5684 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 3) THE CASE OF GUSTAV PERAT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 19:40:22 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <69887692wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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9. On 15th July 1947 I recieved a general charge sheet and was transferred 
with my co-accused to the Bunker I, camp Dachau.
It was impossible for me to procure any exonerating material there. One was 
cut off from the outside world. 
Letters to relatives or acquaintances in which something was said about 
witnesses or the approaching trial were so cut up that the receiver received 
only scraps from which he could glean nothing. For that reason it was made 
impossible for me to procure any defense material. Requests for special 
letters to witnesses or prior reports to the defense lawyer were fruitless.
Already in little things they were making the procuring of exonerating 
material impossible. Also the time before the beginning of the trial was far 
too short to obtain any material.

10. On 6 August 1947 the trial began, and lasted until 21 August.

11. The prosecution witnesses had every support of the prosecuting 
authorities. When they were shown to be lying, up jumped the prosecutor, Mr. 
Lindberg, and accused the defense lawyer of intimidating the witnesses and 
trying to make out that they were liars.
 
12. In reality, the opposite was the truth. Defense witnesses were 
intimidated by the braying of the prosecutor or were branded as false. It 
 happened that defense witnesses were threatened and beaten by foreign 
former prisoners so that the former had no more interest in appearing for 
the defense. They were afraid that they too would be accused of something, 
which the foreign prisoners were quite capable of, as they hated everything 
German and were out for revenge.
 

Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-
 
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.
  
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:49 PDT 1995
Article: 5685 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 4) THE CASE OF GUSTAV PERAT
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:08:58 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 72
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13. In the courtroom were Polish, Jugoslav and Jewish prisoners as 
spectators,  who served as an information bureau, that is , during the court 
recesses they told their comrades, who were waiting for their interrogation 
everything that had been discussed during the course of the trial. On the 
basis of this information the latter were then able to  reinforce the 
accusations and bring to naught the exoneration, which was scanty enough 
anyway.
For this reason it was also possible to always bring out the same points in 
the accusations.

14. The questionaires  we had filled out were handed to the persecution 
witnesses by the prosecutor or by his interpreter. In this way each exact 
date could be looked up in order to incriminate the accused without having 
to fear a false statement was being made. In spite of this, it happened that 
they contradicted themselves in cross-examination. However, because the 
witnesses were under the  protection of the American court, they had nothing 
to fear from perjury, which they committed repeatedly.


15. We,  as accused, had no right to give our opinion. At the beginning of 
the trial the defense lawyer told us we had to keep quite still and the 
questions we wanted to have put to the witnesses we were to write on paper 
and give to his interpreter, Mr. BARR. I did not understand most of the 
trial, since I am a Lithuanian and only know a little German. I had to find 
out during the court recesses, from my comrades, of what I was accused. 

17. [sic] There was no final argument by the defense  lawyer. I was 
sentenced to death on 21 August 1947. The sentence was approved on 26th June 
1948. 


Landsberg/Lech, 1O September 1948  /s/ Gustav Perat.


"The change [of public opinion] followed the notorious case of the American 
Dachau Tribunal. This tribunal which was abolished in December 1947,  
had tried 1,500 Germans and condemned 420 of them to death. In autumn of 
that year Dachau justice became the subject of a commission of investigation 
under Judge Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court. The commission 
recommended that 29 men who were still under sentence of death should be 
reprieved, and it declared that statements had be obtained both from 
defendents and witnesses by highly questionable means."

[The final solution [1968] by Reitlinger. page 548]






Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.




-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:50 PDT 1995
Article: 5686 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: WHO FOUND ANNE FRANK 'S DIARY?
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:29:09 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 57
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The Franks had been arrested and had been taken away.......

What happened next? Who found the diary?

1) The franks and their friends were being taken away. MIEP remained frozen 
in her chair, too shocked, too stunned to move. Then she heard the sound of 
familar voices. ELLI and HENK were returning. Saying little to one another, 
the THREE left the office and moved down the hallway and on up the stairs to 
the hiding place. Moving from room to room they saw overturned furniture, 
books scattered, and drawers ransacked.
[Page 23. A place to Hide. True Stories of Holocaust Rescues. Jayne Pettit. 
USA 1993.

2) At the end of the afternoon, the two [MIEP and BEP] went upstairs 
together with JAN GIES and VAN MAAREN, the warehouseman, and entered the 
secret annex. It was in chaos. the pages of Annes diary lay scattered on 
the floor and were gathered up along with other papers and books and taken 
downstairs.
[Anne Frank: Beyond the Diary: A photographic Rememberance. Puffin books 
1995]

3) The secret annexe was plundered during the police raid. A few days 
later, in a pile of old newspapers left lying on the floor, an OFFICE 
CLEANER found the notebooks containing Annes diary. Not knowing what they 
were, he handed them to Miep and Elli."
[Page 227 Anne Frank Diary. Published by Guild publishing by arrangement 
with Valentine, Mitchell and Co Ltd 1980]

4)  "Henk said right away to van Matto, As soon as your assistants are away 
lock the door and come back to us. When van Matto returned, Henk said to 
Elli, van Matto and me [Miep Gies], Now weill go upstairs and see what the 
situation is.
[Page 157. Anne Frank Remembered by Miep Gies 1987.] 

Option:  1 could be sloppy transcription. Option 2 could be the same as 4) 
as AF used nicknames,  but what about option 3?

Any other offerings?


Several different accounts of the finding of the Frank diary, might this 
mean that the account of Miep Gies is actually untrue? 

Could it also mean that this confusion is the result of there being a 
different origin of the diary?


-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:50 PDT 1995
Article: 5687 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ALBERT HOFFMAN
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:21:25 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 37
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Photos in the modern Polish Archives show Himmler visiting the immense 
synthetic rubber plant being erected by forced labor at Auschwitz on the 
seventeenth [of July 1942] , and touring the concentration camp itself on 
the eighteenth, in the company of his chief engineer SS General Hans Kammler 
and Fritz Bracht, the Gauleiter of Upper Silesia. Whatever later historians 
would claim, Hitler himself never visited any concentration camp, let alone 
Auschwitz. Historians would also claim that Himmler witnessed the 
"liquidation" of a trainload of Jews on this occasion. This is 
apocryphal, devoid of any documentary substance. Under British postwar 
interrogation Bracht's thirty-four-year-old deputy, Albert Hoffmann, would 
recall this day and describe how he accompanied Himmler around Auschwitz: 
conditions were, he volunteered, considerably worse than those he had seen 
at Dachau in 1938. "Maltreatment did occur, and [he] has actually seen the 
[crematory] ovens where bodies were being burned." But Hoffmann's 
interrogation report significantly added, "He totally disbelieves the 
accounts of atrocities as published in the press." (By late 1945 the world's 
newspapers were full of unsubstantiated, lurid rumors about "factories of 
death" complete with lethal "gas chambers.") On July 19, 1942, the day after 
Himmler's tour of Auschwitz, he issued a written order to Kruger: "I decree 
that the transfer of the entire Jewish population of the Generalgouvernement 
is to be carried out and completed by December 31, 1942."

[Extract from page 466 of Hitlers War [1991] by David Irving. 




-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:51 PDT 1995
Article: 5688 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THIS, TOO WAS NEVER DONE AT DORA
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:31:53 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <117330766wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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Note: the following was written by Professor Paul Rassinier, the "father" of 
Revisionism. Professor Rassinier was deported to Buchenwald Concentration 
Camp, during the Second World War. Unlike many other inmates, he told the 
truth about his experiences. 





1. Frere Birin

Frere Birin whose real name is Alfred Untereiner, published a Chronological 
account of his experiences at Buchenwald and Dora entitled 16 mois de bagne 
 (Reims: Matot-Braine 1946)
In the Prologue, he relates the circumstances that led to his arrest and 
deportation. He was arrested in December, 1943, was deported to Buchenwald 
on January 17, 1944  and was transferred to Dora the following March 13th . 
We were in the same deportation convoy and in the same transport from 
Buchenwald to Dora. Our registration numbers were also close together 43,642 
for him, and 44,364 for me. 
We were liberated together........


On the instigation [write Frere Birin in his book on page 77] of the 
notorious Oberscharfurhrer Sanders, SS, wiht whom I had something to do, 
other methods of execution were used for the saboteurs.
The unfortunates were made to dig narrow ditches, in which their comrades 
were forced to bury them up to the neck. 
They were left for a cetain lenght of time. After that an SS. with a long 
handled axe cut off their heads.

But the sadism of some of the SS led them to discover an even more cruel 
death. They ordered other prisoners to pour barrow loads of sand over their 
poor heads. I am still haunted by the looks etc....."


This, too, was never done at Dora. But the story was told to me in almost 
the same words, in that camp, by prisoners who had been transfered there 
>from  other camps and who all claimed to have been present at the scene.: 
Mauthausen, Birkenau, Flossenburg, Neuengame, etc.....



[ pages 231-233 The Holocaust Story and the Lies of Ulysses by Paul 
Rassinier.]

Available from :-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.

-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:52 PDT 1995
Article: 5689 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HUMAN SKIN LAMPSHADES - A CRUEL AND VULGAR HOAX
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:34:20 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 32
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Some reporter had called her [Ilse Koch] the Bitch of Buchenwald had 
[also] written that she had lampshades made out of human skin in her house. 
And that was introduced in court, where it was absolutely proven that the 
lampshades were made out of goatskin. [1]
During my time at Dachau I saw one of the human skin lampshades. It looked 
like translucent skin, approximately one-quarter of a inch thick, and was 
adorned with a tattoo somewhat fuzzy in outline, not at all like the 
distinct tattooed figures I was familar with. The shade must have struck me 
as rather odd, for I recall some puzzlement at the look of the skin and the 
crude tattoo. In those days, it would never have occured to me that the 
human lampshade story was a cruel and vulgar hoax.


[1) Smith, Jean Edward, Lucius D.Clay An American Life, p301. New York: 
Henry Holt and Company, 1990 reference on] . 
Page 252 of Innocent at Dachau by Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:53 PDT 1995
Article: 5690 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: EVERYTHING ABOUT IT (AUSCHWITZ I) IS FALSE
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:39:48 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 74
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        L'EXPRESS: "Tout y est faux" - Everything about it is Fake 

                 FRENCH MAKE A CLEAN BREAST: 
         ADMIT FORTY SEVEN YEAR AUSCHWITZ "GAS CHAMBER" FRAUD

PARIS-Braving the risk of prosecution under France's draconic new 
Fabius-Gayssot Law, the mass circulation national weekly magazine L'Express 
has admitted that the gas chamber shown to tourists at Auschwitz is a FAKE - 
built by the Polish Communists three years after the War. 

This was the claim which British writer David Irving made in Munich in April 
1990: a remark for which the German government fined him DM30,000 ($22,000) 
and banned him from Germany in 1993. The Court of Human Rights in 
Strasboug has now agreed to hear the appeal his lawyers against Germany.
The largely Jewish-owned French magazine L'Express, which is comparable with 
the US magazine Time and with Germany's Der Spiegel, slated in a 
well-researched article (titled: "Auschswitz: The Memoir of Evil ) appearing 
under the by-line of anti-revisionist historian Eric Conan that the 
authorities at Auschwitz have now conceded the fraud - but they also admit 
that for them there is now no going back.
The admission represents a major vindication for Professor Robert Faurisson, 
who was the first public figure to point to the fraud, back in 1976. 
Unable to accept the truth, his opponents have subjected him to a reign 
of terror since then. In one incident a gang of thugs, who were immediately 
denounced by the rest of the Jewish community, poured acid into Faurisson's 
eyes, and broke his upper and Iower jaws almost beyond repair.

....Now the Auschwitz gas chamber legend is finally crumbling too. Just as 
the leading revisionists promised it would.
In his article Eric Conan states that there been many blatant falsifications 
in the Auschwitz and Birkenau concentration camp sites. In particular he 
reveals that at the time that the Auschwitz State was created for propaganda 
purposes in 1948, they "reconstructed" Crematorium I in its supposed 
original state; In fact "everything in it is false." [Tout y est faux] -
the dimensions of the "gas chamber", the locations of the doors, the roof 
openings for pouring in Zyklon B poison, the "ovens" ("rebuilt according to 
the recollections of some survivors"), and the height of the chimmey.  
[This confirms recent revisionist investigators who claimed that there was 
no link between the supposed chimmey and the crematorium: it is a dummy.]

Professor [Robert] Faurisson was the first to reveal the deception in 1976, 
when he cornered museum official Jan Machalek into making an admission that 
the "gas chamber" was a "reconstruction". Faurisson reported this in the 
French National newspaper Le Monde on December 29, 1978 and Holocaust expert 
Raul Hilberg admitted under oath at the 1985 Zundel trial in Toronto that 
this was true. 

Faurisson's 1976 investigation of the original plans in the museum archives 
at Auschwitz revealed that until 1942, the "gas chamber"was nothing more 
than an almost totally enclosed room for storing cadavers awaiting 
incineration in the endlessly slow crematorium one floor above. 

....Astonishingly, there are no plans to alter the way that the fake gas 
chamber is displayed to tourists, who are still to be led to believe they 
are seeing the right thing.




Extracts from David Irvings Action Report May 1995.

[The article from L'Express is being translated and will be posted.] 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:53 PDT 1995
Article: 5691 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!spool.mu.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: FORGED DOCUMENTS AT NUREMBERG
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 20:48:30 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 107
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Note: the following was written by Professor Paul Rassinier, the "father" of 
Revisionism. Professor Rassinier was deported to Buchenwald Concentration 
Camp, during the Second World War. Unlike many other inmates, he told the 
truth about his experiences. 


At Nuremberg, the Prosecution and the Judges got sensational results by this 
method. Notice this curious document P.S. 3319 (N.M.T. XXXII, pp. 159-92) 
which Mr. Raul Hilberg cites and comments upon (1961 pp. 502-709). In 
question is the organization, by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the 
Third Reich, of an anti-Jewish congress at Krummhubel on April 3 and 4, 
1944, with all the representatives at foreign posts participating. In 27 
pages a certain Ludwig Kohlhammer, Landesgnsppenleiter, reports very exactly 
on the number of participants - 31 persons - and their names and what each 
one said.
Now, this congress never took place. This is how the matter was presented to 
the Nuremberg Tribunal:

March 27, 1946, [Adolf ] von Steengracht (Secretary of State, Foreign 
Affairs, Third Reich) is interrogated by Colonel Philimore deputy 
prosecutor-general for the English, who asks him:
"I would now like to bring up the question of the Jews. You told us 
yesterday that you yourself and Mr. Ribbentrop had prevented the anti-Jewish 
Congress of 1944 from taking place. Is that true?

"Yes," answered von Steengracht. (T.X., p. 137.)

And this is what he stated the day before in reply to a question put by Dr. 
Horn, von Ribbentrop's counsel:

"Our liaison with Hitler informed us that the latter, informed by Bormann, 
had ordered Rosenberg's office to organize an anti-Semitic congress. 
Ribbentrop did not want to believe it, but after having had a conversation 
with the liaison agent, he had to believe it. Since this decision made it 
irnpossible for us to prevent the congress through official channels, we 
tried to prevent it with a policy of hesitation, delay and obstruction And, 
although the order had been issued in the spring of 1944, and the war was 
still not over in April 1945, the congress never took place." (T.X., p. 
125.)

On April 2, 1946, von Ribbentrop is interrogated by Mr. Edgar Faure, who at 
the time was  deputy prosecutor-general for France, and who later was to 
become President of Council in France:
-

Mr. Edgar Faure (to Ribbentrop): "During the examination of your witness 
Steengracht, the English prosecutor brought forth document P.S. 3319, which 
has the English No. G.B. 287. I would like to refer to this document just 
for one question: In this document appear the minutes of a congress, of a 
gathering at which were present all the reporters on Jewish matters in the 
various diplomatic missions in Europe. This congress was held at Krummhubel 
on April 3 and 4, 1944. It had been organized by Schleier.  That was read 
the other day. You knew about this congress, I suppose?"

von Ribbentrop: "No, I am hearing about it for the first time. What was that 
congress? I have not even heard that such a congress took place. What sort 
of a congress was it?"

Mr. Faure: The document has been filed with the Tribunal and I simply want 
to ask you one question. You have testified that you did not know about this 
gathering at which were pre-sent thirty one persons, almost all of them 
diplomatic personnel. I point out to you that during this reunion Counsellor 
of Embassy von Thadden made a declaration which was reported
in the following terms: 

'The orator is showing why the Zionist solution of Palestine and other 
similar solutions should be 
rejected, and why there are grounds for the deportation of the Jews to the 
eastern territories.'

I suggest that this declaration made by a Counsellor of Embassy before 
thirty one persons in your department represented your own thesis on the 
subject."

von Ribbentrop: "Yes, but I do not know at all what you are trying to say. 
Will you please put the document at my disposal so that I may answer?"

Mr Faure. "I have no intention of showing you this document .... (T.X., p. 
420)."

THAT WAS THE PROOF OF FORGERY. It was also a typical breach Of the Rule of 
Procedure No. 2 of the Tribunal itself which provided that "all the 
documents appended to the Indictment shall be put at the disposition of the 
defendants not less than 30 days before the trials" (T.I., p. 21). This 
matter was never spoken of again. If one looks in the Index of Names (T., 
24) for information on landesgruppenleiter Ludwig Kohlhammer, he is not 
listed. But, Document P.S. 3319 was admitted into evidence.


[ pages 231-233 The Holocaust Story and the Lies of Ulysses by Paul 
Rassinier.]

Available from :-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.
 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:54 PDT 1995
Article: 5692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: ESTIMATED CREMATION RATES AT AUSCHWITZ and REALITY
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:39:09 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 120
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dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) writes:
> There's BTW a patent, submitted by the very same Topf firm
> in 1951, which gives a cremation time of 30-45 minutes
> per corpse. It is not the same type of furnace as the
> one used in Birkenau, but this figure obviously means
> a lot, assuming the science of cremation has not made
> a quantum leap right after the war. Once more, the
> revisionazis have failed to do their homework."

So let's use Karen's figures to work out the crematory rates for 
Birkenau, after all, he knows better than Ivan Lagace, who was granted 
Expert status on Cremation at the Zundel trial, 

["Lagace estimated that the 46 retorts at Birkenau could handle about 184 
bodies daily, or four apiece." (Holocaust on Trial Page 239)]


There was 46 retorts at Auschwitz II (Birkenau).

At the very best possible rate [on 1951 figures], flat out with no problems, 
maintenance, breaks, etc at 30 minutes per corpse the 46 retorts at Birkenau 
would have cremated:-

46 * 24 * 2 = 2208 corpses a day.  


A bit short of the SS estimate of 4,756 a day. 
[letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, June 25 
1943, see "Auschwitz:Technique and operation of the gas chambers" - J.C 
Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 
247] 
[Note; the British Historian David Irving, an EXPERT Witness at the 
Zundel Trial regards this document as 'highly dubious'.]

And a little short of the Polish Commission of Inquiry's estimate of 12,000 
a day. [The Final Solution [1968]; Reitlinger page 159]

And even Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz, who seems to have a lot of 
problems with numbers  -------- 16,000 a day. 
[The Final Solution [1968]; Reitlinger page 159]

And just a little bit short of inmate Olga lengel's estimate of 17,280 a 
day. ("Five chimmeys" P68 cited in; Destruction of the European Jews 1961 
Hilberg page 629) 

And just a little bit short of Dr Nysizli's estimate of 20,000 a day.
[The Final Solution [1968]; Reitlinger page 159]


At the next possible rate [on 1951 figures], flat out with no breaks, etc at 
45 minutes the 46 retorts at Birkenau would have cremated:-

46 * 32 = 1472 corpses per day.  

A bit short of the SS "letter"          ------------------ 4,756 a day. 
And a little short of the Polish Commission's estimate of 12,000 a day. 
Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz,               -------- 16,000 a day. 
Inmate Olga lengel's estimate --------------------------- 17,280 a day.
Dr Nysizli's estimate ----------------------------------- 20,000 a day.

However, these were 1951 figures, for the 1940s, let's make it a hour 
per corpse:-  

46 * 24 = 1104 a day. 

A bit short of the SS "letter"          ------------------ 4,756 a day. 
And a little short of the Polish Commission's estimate of 12,000 a day. 
Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz, he's wrong again------ 16,000 a day. 
Inmate Olga lengel's estimate --------------------------- 17,280 a day.
Dr Nysizli's estimate ----------------------------------- 20,000 a day.


However, let's remember that the Nazis [or the Jewish Sonderkommando who 
actually operated the retorts, who worked hard and were highly trained] 
stuck 3 corpses in at a time, in every retort, right through those 24 hours, 
despite the fact the retorts were designed for single corpse cremation. 
[after all they could be children etc] 

Now let us IGNORE the idea that this might take longer, 
and say it will take the SAME time as for 1 corpse:- 

1) Best possible rate [1951] 46 * 48 = 6624. [10 minutes per corpse]

2) Next best rate [1951]     46 * 32 = 4416. [15 minutes per corpse]

3) 1940's rate               46 * 24 = 3312. [20 minutes per corpse]

Well the SS "letter" is in range        ------------------ 4,756 a day. 
But a little short of the Polish Commission's estimate of 12,000 a day. 
Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz, he's wrong again------ 16,000 a day. 
Inmate Olga lengel's estimate --------------------------- 17,280 a day.
Dr Nysizli's estimate ----------------------------------- 20,000 a day.



As anybody can see, even if an absolute fantasy level is given to the 
crematory rates, they remain beyond belief. 

The only conclusion that one can draw from these "estimates" is that they are completely bogus, made without reference to reality, and were made for different motives then a objective view of crematory rates. 

There is one motive that fits all these estimates: Propaganda. 






-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  1 09:02:55 PDT 1995
Article: 5693 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!vanbc.wimsey.com!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MACVAY & HOESS STATEMENT "edited"  AT NIZOR & drainage cite
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 21:47:18 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <6762332wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <822286105wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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The Hoess Statement (German & English) [from the Nizor resource]     

[Note: Hoess was the commandant of Auschwitz] 

Paragraph 6 reads:-
6. Die "Endloesung" der juedischen Frage bedeutete die vollstaendige 
Ausrottung aller Juden in Europa. Ich hatte den Befehl, 
ausrottungserleichterungen in Auschwitz im Juni 1942 zu schaffen. Zu jener 
Zeit bestanden schon drei weitere Vernichtungslager im Generalgouvernement: 
Belzec, Treblinka und Wolzek.
Diese Lager befanden sich unter dem Einsatzkommando der Sicherheitspolizei 
und des SD.......
[this translates to:]


6. The "final solution" of the Jewish question meant the
complete extermination of all Jews in Europe. I had the order to
produce extermination facilities in Auschwitz in June 1942. At
that time three further annihilation camps already existed in
the general government: Belzec, Treblinka and Wolzek. These camps
found themselves under the mission command of the security police and the 
SD.....
 
>From  "Der Kommandant von Auschwitz erzaehlt," in _Das Dritte
Reich und die Juden_, edited by Leon Poliakov and Josef Wulf.
Berlin Grunewald, Verlag-GmbH, 1955.

However, it should read June 1941. 

[Note: Belzec and Treblinka were not even open in June 1941. Wolsek never 
existed.] 


So was it just a typo, or does the source say 1942 as well?
 
 
Are you going to answer this question or not?
 
 
PS Since I gave you a citation for the Gerstein statement, you can give me 
one for your statement that the "SS drained the site " at Auschwitz II, as I 
cannot find any reference to any draining of the site in Hilberg or 
Reitlinger. If you can't give this citation, I will have to assume that you 
CANNOT. It then may have been very difficult to burn corpses at Birkenau, as 
pits would rapidly fill with water. 



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:47 PDT 1995
Article: 6517 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MOLOTOV HAD NO SON
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 17:25:29 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <869331139wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <20925951wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4289u1$dq6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 07, 1995 17.25.29
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In article: <4289u1$dq6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>  jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca 
(John Morris) writes:

> >A bit short of the SS estimate of 4,756 a day. 
> >[letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler, June 25 
> >1943, see "Auschwitz:Technique and operation of the gas chambers" - J.C 
> >Pressac, the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 
> >247] 
> >[Note; the British Historian David Irving, an EXPERT Witness at the 
> >Zundel Trial regards this document as 'highly dubious'.]
> 
> You mean Holocaust denier and convicted libeller David Irving? David
> Irving the "historian" who generalized the Hitler order, to *stop* the
> gassing of a single transport so they could arrest Molotov's son, into
> an order to cease all gassing operations, and then asserted that this
> was proof that Hitler was against gassings while all the while being
> ignorant of gassings? You mean THAT David Irving?
> 


"In fact, Molotov had no son."

[page 19. Hitler's War[1991] by David Irving.  



Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:48 PDT 1995
Article: 6518 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Capacity of Auschwitz-Birkenau Furnaces
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 17:33:54 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <245397932wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <199509012308.AA20416@world.std.com>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 07, 1995 17.33.54
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In article: <199509012308.AA20416@world.std.com>  dkeren@world.std.com 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> (BTW, I have a JPEG file of this document, if anyone's interested).


Don't waste your time, the document is a fake.

> 
> Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Jahrling to SS-General Kammler
> estimating the number of corpses that can be disposed off in 24 hours
> in the Auschwitz crematoriums, June 25 1943
> [Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers - J.C Pressac,
> the Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, NY, 1989, p. 247]
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  1.) Crematorium I
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   3 x 2 muffles             340 persons
> 
>  2.) Crematorium II
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons
> 
>  3.) Crematorium III
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   5 x 3 muffles             1440 persons
> 
>  4.) Crematorium IV
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   8 muffles                  768 persons
> 
>  5.) Crematorium V
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   8 muffles                  768 persons
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.
> 
> 



British Historian David Irving regards this document as "highy dubious".
The crematory rates are totally unrealistic. 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:49 PDT 1995
Article: 6519 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHO FOUND ANNE FRANK 'S DIARY?
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 17:28:56 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <889775526wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <90257246wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <90257246wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>  Jeff  
writes:
> Several different accounts of the finding of the Frank diary, might this 
> mean that the account of Miep Gies is actually untrue? 
> 
> Could it also mean that this confusion is the result of there being a 
> different origin of the diary?
> 

So which account is true?

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:50 PDT 1995
Article: 6520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SPEER MEMOIRS [Was : Hanke advises Speer not to visit Auschwitz]
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 17:55:24 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 91
Message-ID: <561892533wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <42ao8f$ahh@news1.usa.pipeline.com>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <42ao8f$ahh@news1.usa.pipeline.com>  
avickery@usa.pipeline.com(Antony F. P. Vickery) writes:
> 
> From 'Inside the Third Reich', Albert Speer, translated by Richard and
> Clara Winston, Bonanza Books, NY, 1982, ISBN: 0-517-385791, p. 375-376. 
>  
>  
>  
>     One day, some time in the summer of 1944, my friend Karl Hanke, the
> Gauleiter of Lower Silesia, came to see me.  In earlier years he had told
> me a great deal about the Polish and French campaigns, had spoken of the
> dead and wounded, the pain and agonies, and in talking about these things
> had shown himself a man of sympathy and directness.  This time, sitting in
> the green leather easy chair in my office, he seemed confused and spoke
> falteringly, with many breaks.  He advised me never to accept an 
invitation
> to inspect a concentration camp in Upper Silesia.  Never, under any
> circumstances.  He had seen something these which he was not permitted to
> describe and moreover could not describe. 
>     I did not query him.  I did not query Himmler, I did not query Hitler,
> I did not speak with personal friends.  I did not investigate - for I did
> not want to know what was happening there.  Hanke must have been speaking
> of Auschwitz.  During those few seconds, while Hanke was warning me, the
> whole responsibility had become a reality again.  Those seconds were
> uppermost in my mind when I stated to the international court at the
> Nuremberg Trial that as an important member of the leadership of the 
Reich,
> I had to share the total responsibility for all that had happened.  For
> from that moment on, I was inescapably contaminated morally; from fear of
> discovering something which might have made me turn from my course, I had
> closed my eyes.  This deliberate blindness outweighs whatever good I may
> have done or tried to do in the last period of the war.  Those activities
> shrink to nothing in the face of it.  Because I failed at that time, I
> still feel, to this day, responsible for Auschwitz in a wholly personal
> sense. 
>  
>  
>  
> Antony F. P. Vickery 
>  
 


"But some critics were puzzled that the American edition differed 
substantially from the German original Erinnerungen and the British edition. 
In fact I learned the truth from the horse's mouth, being one of the first 
writers to interview Speer after his release from Spandau prison in 1966. 
the former Reichminister spent an afternoon reading out loud to me from his 
draft memoirs.
 The book subsequently published was very different, having been written, he 
explained, by my own in-house editor at the Ullstein publishing house 
(Annette Engel geb. Etienne), by their chief editor Wolf-Jobst Siedler, and 
by historian Joachim Fest, editor of the prestigious Frankfurter Allgemeine 
Zeitung. Miss Etienne confirmed this. When I challenged Speer in private at 
a Frankfurt publishing dinner in October 1979 to publish his original 
memoirs, he replied rather wistfully that he wished he could: "But it would 
be impossible. That manuscript was quite out of keeping with the modern 
nuances. Even the captions to the chapters would have caused difficulties. 
 A courageous Berlin author, Mathias Schmidt, later published a book {Albert 
Speer the End of a Myth 1984} exposing the Speer legend and the "memoirs"; 
but it is the latter volume which the lazy gentlemen of my profession have 
in their libraries, not Schmidt's, thus proving the opening words of this 
introduction true. 
lt was symptomatic of Speer's truthfulness to history that while he was in 
Spandau he paid for the entire wartime diaries of his office (Dienststelle) 
to be retyped omitting the more unfortunate passages, and donated these 
faked documents to the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz.  My comparison of the 1943 volume, housed in the original in British Cabinet Office archives, with the Bundesarchiv copy made this plain, and Matthias Schmidt also reveals the forgery."


P9 Hitlers War by David Irving.







-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:51 PDT 1995
Article: 6521 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HITLER EXASPERATED BY ALLIED "EXTERMINATION" PROPAGANDA
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 18:34:42 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <843124669wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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Heinrich Heim recalls one exasperated comment by Hitler when Allied 
radio broadcast an announcement that the Jews were being exterminated: 
"Really, the Jews should be grateful to me for wanting nothing more 
than a bit of hard work from them."
 

p427 Hitlers War by David Irving.


CONSIDER THIS:

Hitler reacts with exasperation to an allied claim that the jews are 
being "exterminated", saying he wanted "nothing more than work from them."  


QUESTION:

Why should Hitler react in this way, if he had ordered the "gassing" of the 
jews?



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:51 PDT 1995
Article: 6522 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TORTURE - THE CASE OF OSWALD POHL
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 19:48:28 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <769396752wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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During your cross examination, said Christie [defence counsel for Zundel], 
you stated that [Obergruppenfuhrer] Oswald Pohl was tortured. Have you now 
found your evidence for this? 
Yes, said Mark Weber [who had been given EXPERT status at the 'trial'.]  

Pohl, the German official in charge of the concentration camps, wrote a 
statement dated June 1, 1948 in which he described his repeated brutal 
beatings by British soldiers two years, earlier. Pohl held the rank of 
general, so his treatment was "completely illegal" according to 
international agreements.

During 60 to 80 interogation sessions, Pohl was also emotionally tortured, 
lyingly accused of killing 30 million people to break down his resistance.

Weber quoted Pohl: "Because I am not emotionally thick-skinned, these 
diabolical intimidations were not without effect, and the interogators 
achieved what they wanted:not the truth but rather statements that served 
their needs".

Pohl had no access to an attorney or other help during this period, and was 
never formally charged with anything.

At his subsequent trial, the American prosecutor used false affidavits which 
Pohl was forced to sign.

In his statement, said Weber, Pohl declared that the number of those who 
died of all causes in all German concentration and labour camps between 1933 
and 1945 was 200,000 to 250,000. Epidemics and general collapse near the 
end of the war accounted for the vast majority of these deaths. 


[Page 224 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:52 PDT 1995
Article: 6523 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: JEWS SENT TO THE EAST TO WORK, OTHERS FURTHER TO THE EAST
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 21:20:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 99
Message-ID: <565993202wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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The house painter Louis Birk of Wiesbaden, could not do his work without a 
great deal of talk with Hausfrauen in whose apartments he was working. The 
charges assert that "from dark wells he scooped rumours about an 
unfavourable turn of the war" and spread them to his employers. With respect 
to the Jewish Question, he remarked that all the remaining jews in Germany 
would soon be poisoned with gas. Furthermore, he assured the housewifes 
that the party leaders were all blacklisted and that they would one day be 
forced to reconstruct the jewish synagogues. Louis Birk was executed.
By and large, only a handful of rumour carriers could be caught, and the 
Party Chancellery decided therefore to combat the rumour wave by 
issuing an official explanation of the deportations. 
The jews, said the Party, were being sent "to the East"(nach dem Osten) in 
order to be employed in work camps. Some of the jews were being sent 
"further East" The old jews and decorated jews were being resettled in 
Theresienstadt. "It lies in the nature of things," the party circular   
concluded, "that these partially very difficult problems can be solved in 
the interest of the permanent security of our people only with ruthless 
hardness(rucksichtsloser Harte) (1).



 
(1) Party chancellery, Vertrauliche Information(for Gau and Kreis offices 
only) october 9 1942.
[cited in Hilberg (1961) page 300)



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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In article: <199509040429.AA17491@world.std.com>  dkeren@world.std.com 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> Excerpted from "The Belsen Trial" 
> 
> Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner 
> in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:
> 
> (p. 60-61)
> 
> We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
> this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
> flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
> numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
> cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
> this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
> of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.
> 
> [...]
> 
> I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
> to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
> to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
> vast numbers - certainly five figures. 
> 
> You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
> lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
> team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
> way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
> even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
> on the head.
> 
> (p. 62)
> 
> I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
> there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
> dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
> the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
> that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
> see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
> behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
> shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
> hundreds were shot per day.
> 
> [1] Ethnic Germans ("Volkdeutche") from Hungary who were
>     recruited to the SS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.
> 
> 
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:53 PDT 1995
Article: 6524 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TORTURE USED BY AMERICAN INTEROGATORS
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 20:33:30 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 96
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         AMERICANS TORTURE GERMANS TO EXTORT "CONFESSIONS".

By Fred Redman

TODAY I am able to tell you the full story, revealed in Washington, of the 
American war trials scandal. It is an ugly story of barbarous tortures 
inflicted in the name of Allied justice. 
It is time the British people knew all the facts. Little has appeared in our 
press until today.
The charge is that American soldiers, building evidence against Germans 
accused of war crimes, have behaved with the same sadistic cruelty as the 
beasts who terrorised Europe when it was under Nazi domination.

The truth has come out through the persistence of an American lawyer and the 
frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled.
Judge Edward Van Roden member of a US Army Commission of Inquiry tells how 
burning matches were forced under the fingernails of a prisoner by American 
investigators to extort a confession. For months, he says, men were kept in 
solitary confinement on near-starvation rations. 
And they were beaten up and savagely kicked until strong men were redeuced 
to broken wrecks ready to mumble any admission demanded by their 
prosecutors. 

The war department have shown the Judges personal report only to General 
Lucius Clay, their military commander in Germany. Washington suspects the 
reason was that it was too shocking for public disclosure. 

....Commission sent to Germany to investigate was was even more candid.
"All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair." he charged.
"this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.
"They would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him in 
the face with brass knuckles."
US Army prosecution teams had he said had posed as priests to hear 
confessions and give absolution.

At mock trials men who refused to confess were confronted by a crucifix
and burning candles. Those sham courts, attended by men in US Army uniform, 
passed sham death sentences. Then the accused were told: "Sign this 
confession and we get you acquitted." 

[The Sunday Pictorial Jan 23rd 1949] 

"The change [of public opinion] followed the notorious case of the American 
Dachau Tribunal. This tribunal which was abolished in December 1947,  
had tried 1,500 Germans and condemned 420 of them to death. In autumn of 
that year Dachau justice became the subject of a commission of investigation 
under Judge Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court. The commission 
recommended that 29 men who were still under sentence ot death should be 
reprieved, and it declared that statements had been obtained both from 
defendents and witnesses by highly questionable means."

[The final solution [1968] by G. Reitlinger. page 548]

CONSIDER :- 

1) The truth only came out "through the persistence of an American lawyer and the frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled. " 

2) The van Roden report was never issued to the public,
[afaik the first person to get it was David Irving] 

2) "All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair."

3) "this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators."


The 'Americans' tortured defendents. It is known that the 'British' tortured Kramer and Hoess. Pohl was tortured and many others. The glimpse we have of the case of Gustav Perat, shows he was being beaten, starved, and basicially framed. 

QUESTION 1: 

Shouldn't it call into question the validity of "confessions" given in 
previous trials?

[For example; the "Doctors" Trial, where Germans admitted to Horrific 
medical experiments and gassing the insane.]


QUESTION 2:

If the 'Americans' tortured defendents on such a scale, what did the 
COMMUNISTS do? 



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:54 PDT 1995
Article: 6525 of alt.revisionism
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From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THE SET OF RULES WHICH IS APPROPRIATE HERE
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 20:56:16 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <72176958wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article:   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) 
writes:
> mstein@access5.digex.net (Michael P. Stein) writes:
> 
> # I'm sorry, but I have to demur here.  I have also had
> # private email discussions with both Roberts and Baron on this
> # subject, and I have no cause to doubt their word on this.
> # I have criticized both men for what I consider poor reasoning
> # and ignoring rebuttal information, but I have seen no real
> # evidence that they have wilfully posted something they knew
> # to be untrue or are willing to do so.
> 
> Well, I'll have to disagree on this, judging on what I've seen
> them both post.
> 

[snip -unhinged ravings deleted]


> this is one reason why I don't trust one bit what
> he may have written on the forgery he posted (the "Muller
> document"). To be more precise, I am one-hundred-percent
> convinced that, even if he knew it's a forgery, he would keep
> posting it, unless it was publicly exposed as such.


Not true, if something is a forgery then I will not post it. 


 
> Nontheless, I respect your opinion; I just think you're
> not using the set of rules which is appropriate here, and
> I'll just keep it vague, hoping my meaning is clear.



 "the set of rules which is appropriate here, and I'll just keep it vague, 
hoping my meaning is clear." 

Wild stab in the dark - is it "acid in the face?" 


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:55 PDT 1995
Article: 6526 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: EVERY DEFENDENT AT NUREMBERG DENIED EXTERMINATION
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 12:44:33 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <567862379wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Sep 08, 1995 12.44.33
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

[Mark] Weber [Accredited an EXPERT WITNESS at the Zundel trial] described a 
very common defense strategy at Nuremberg and other postwar trials. The 
attorney will argue  that.....there was [a] terrible extermination program 
that we will not dispute but my particular  defendant was not involved in 
it, and this was done to avoid getting into what is an almost impossible 
task and that is to to call into question the entire Holocaust extermination 
story which is held to with an almost religious fervour.... 
Christie: Do you know whether any of the defendants at Nuremberg admitted to 
extermination? 
Weber replied that EVERY single defendant denied that he knew of any program 
to exterminate  the Jews during the war.

[my caps]

These defendents were:-

Reichsmarshall Herman Goring [2nd man of the Reich]
Hess
Ley
Streicher
Minister Schacht
Minister Funk
Foreign Minister Ribbentrop
Von Papen
Kaltenbrunner [Himmlers deputy]
Fritszche
Speer
Sauckel
Keitel
Jodl
Raeder
Doenitz
Schirach
von Neurath
Frank
Rosenberg
Seyss-Inquart


[Page 224 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:55 PDT 1995
Article: 6527 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: 4 QUESTIONS FOR DAN KAREN
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 21:36:08 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <96057040wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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Keren has maintained for a long time that the Nazis DELIBERATELY starved 
Concentration inmates as a matter of policy. I have attempted without 
success to get some details of this policy.

Here's your chance to prove it, [try and keep to the point], otherwise you 
will be branded "Mr Zero" .



1)  When did this policy start?


2)  Who was responsible for this policy and gave the orders?


3)  Are there any documents or witnesses? 


4)  Was it a constant policy or did it vary?



 
There's four points to answer. 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:56 PDT 1995
Article: 6528 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: MIGRATING TO THE EAST
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 21:46:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <367118883wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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"Employable jews who are migrating to the East will have to interupt
their journey and work in war industry."


QUESTION:

Why should Pohl write this to Himmler? 










[Pohl to Himmler Sept 16 1942]
cited in Hilberk (1961) p586





Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:57 PDT 1995
Article: 6529 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: "PARK THEM IN THE MARSHY PARTS OF RUSSIA"
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 22:21:41 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <362459672wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <564076066wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article:   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) 
writes:
> 
> Question is, of course, if the Nazis wanted to deport the Jews
> to Russia...
> 
> Where are these Jews?
> 
> Where are all the train schedules, the numerous amounts of reports
> which should have been there, about this massive "population
> transfer"?
> 
> Why were Jews sent *westward* to Treblinka, that is, to Poland,
> if the plan was to send them to the East?
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.
> 

Reitlinger[1968] p94 chapter 4.4 is entitled "The deportations to Russia" 

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:57 PDT 1995
Article: 6530 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: But, they CLEARLY didn't know what they were talking about."
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 22:19:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 67
Message-ID: <442919558wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <143890161wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <427t0h$cgb@access5.digex.net>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <427t0h$cgb@access5.digex.net>  mstein@access5.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
> 
> In article <143890161wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>,
> Jeff   wrote:
> >In article: <410ev9$p1o@access5.digex.net>  mstein@access5.digex.net 
> >(Michael P. Stein) writes:
> >in a previous article Mr Stein wrote :- 
> >    It is ludicrous, don't get me wrong.  Pressac says the same thing. 
> >But the critical issue is this: was that memo a forgery?  What evidence 
> > do
> >you have?  Because authentic memos can make mistakes, even ludicrous 
ones. 
> >And authentic memos with mistakes can still serve as evidence of a sort. 
> 
>     Again, do you have any reason to think the memo inauthentic?

1) David Irving says the document is "highly dubious".
2) The document has an janatorial security level.
3) The document is addressed to Kammler, the most senior SS engineer, who 
wouldn't need such information anyway.    
4) The crematory rates are rubbish.  


> 
> 
> >ms> of their theoretical maximum cremation capacity is a bit shy
> >ms> of 4800 assuming round-the-clock operation of all 52 ovens. 
> >ms> 
> >ms>     I don't know who gave you that cremation figure of 12,000 into 46
> >ms> ovens (with, I presume, no pit burning), but they clearly didn't know 
> >ms> what they were talking about.
> > 
> > 
> >
> >Well, whoever it was, it's the same estimate as the Polish Commission of 
> >Inquiry who estimated a crematory rate of 12,000 a day. (1) but
> >they clearly didn't know what they are talking about, either.
> 
>     Yes, but was that for the ovens alone or was that with pit burning?

Quote 
"The PC of I considered that the 4 new crematoria between them could absorb 
12,000 bodies a day" [cf Reitlinger 1968 page 159]


> 
> 
> >And Hoess the camp commandant of Auschwitz,  (1) 'estimated ' a  lunatic 
> >16,000 a day, one would have thought he would have known....... 
> 
>     Yes, but was that for the ovens alone or was that with pit burning?
> 

Quote:
  "Hoess, on the basis of 2,000 per crematorium in twelve hours at 16,000"

-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:58 PDT 1995
Article: 6531 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: VRBA AND AIR-PHOTO Recce
Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 22:47:09 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 100
Message-ID: <58258278wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 07, 1995 22.47.09
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article:   mvanalst@rbi.com 
(Mark Van Alstine) writes:
> 
> In article <721064740wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>, jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk 
wrote:
> 
>> And it also shows what notice the Allies took of the claims of 
>> extermination at Birkenau, which was NO NOTICE whatsover. 
> 
> Is your implication here that the Allies dismissed the claims of Auschwitz
> being an extermination camp and therefore did not photograph it? If so, I
> think such suggestions are disengenous. 

Couldn't even spare one photo-recce plane.


> 
> By June of 1944 a copy of the Vrba-Wetzler statement was passed to Roswell

Rudolf Vrba claimed he had escaped from Auschwitz, and stated that in two 
years the germans had gassed 1,765,000 jews, there. 

"Everything went well for this witness until the day when in 1985 [over 40 
years later!] at the Zundel trial, he was cross-examined mercilessly. He was 
then shown to be a imposter. It was revealed that in his 1944 report, he had 
completely made up the the number and location of the "gas chambers" and the 
crematories.....
Attacked on all sides by Zundel's lawyer, the imposter had no other recourse 
than to invoke, in latin, the licentia poetarum, or "poetic license" - in 
other words . the right to engage in fiction." 
[Page 22 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski. available from:- The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 
2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.]



> McClelland of the War Refugee Board. He found it consistant with earlier
> information concerning Auschwitz and which was further corroborated by a
> non-Jewish Polish military officer who had recently escaped from
> Auschwitz. This information became available to the Allied governments and
> then began to appear in the Swiss, British, and American press so that by
> late June the truth about Auschwitz being an extermination camp, along
> with descriptions of its location and layout, became known to the world. 
> 
> This generated several requests, most notably that of Jacon Rosenheim's
> (of the Agudath Israel World Organization) to the American government
> (June 18, 1944), for the rail lines leading to Auschwitz to to be bombed
> so as to disrupt the deportation of Jews from Hungary to Auschwitz.
> Rosenheim's request was passed to the War Refugee Board who, on June 21,
> passed it to the War Department. 
> 
> On June 26 the War Department's Operations Division (OPD), who were
> charged with the strategic planning and operations, ruled against the
> proposed bombing. The OPD stated that bombing Auschwitz was "impractical"
> because "it could be executed only by diversion of considerable air
> support essential to the success of our forces now engaged in decisive
> operations"

> In truth, this decision was not based on any analysis of
> current USAAF operations. The OPD did not even consult with the USAAF
> commanders in Europe about it. The decision was purely based on a
> confidential War Department policy made in January of 1944 (before it was
> known that Auschwitz was an extermination camp) that stated:
> 
> "It is not contemplated that units of the armed forces will be employed
> for the purpose of rescuing victims of enemy oppression unless such
> rescues are the direct result of military operations conducted with the
> objective of defeating the armed forces of the enemy."

It seems that a place where 1,765,000 jews have been gassed isn't a "special 
case".


> 
> This policy, unchanged even after it was known that Auschwitz (and other
> places) _were_ extermination camps, effectively prohibited rescue efforts
> or intervention unless they happened to be incidental to scheduled
> military operations. More specifically, this prohibited the USAAF from
> flying dedicated reconnaisance (or bombinbg) missions over Auschwitz.
> 
> This origional refusal to bomb Auschwitz became the basis from which
> _every_ subsequent refusal to bomb Auschwitz was made. (It must be noted,
> however, that the OPD's refusal to bomb Auschwitz later on in November
> went beyond this reasoning and made two very misleading statement as to
> why Auschwitz could not be bombed.) 
> 

Question: What two very misleading statements? 
          Was it deliberate?

-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep  8 08:06:59 PDT 1995
Article: 6532 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: HANS FRANK AND EXPLICIT ORDERS
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 12:13:04 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 107
Message-ID: <111453027wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <682878023wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>,<42e25p$rdf@access4.digex.net>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <42e25p$rdf@access4.digex.net>  mstein@access4.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
> 
> In article <682878023wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>,
> Jeff   wrote:
> >
> >Did you find "any orders for the extermination of Jews" in the archives 
> >of any country? asked Christie [defence counsel for Zundel].
> >"None whatsoever," said [David] Irving. And the British were reading 
> >the code signals of the SS.
> >What about Himmler, Heydrich, Frank, and other top Nazis? asked 
> >Christie.
> >"There are no explicit orders," said Irving, "and this is where the 
> >academic historians start asking us to read between the lines and find 
> >fancy translations for certain words and I wouldn't go along with those 
> >methods.
> 
> 
> And speaking of Hans Frank:
> 
[some cut for space]

>      Recently they have taken away a non-insignificant portion of our 
>      old, protected Jewish workers.  It is clear that the process of 
>      finding workers is made more difficult when, in the middle of this
>      war-related jobs program, an order comes that all Jews are to be 
>      exterminated.  [In German "alle Juden sind der Vernichtung anheim
>      zu stellen", literally "All Jews are to be submitted to 
>      extermination."]  The responsibility for this order does not rest
>      with the administration of the General Government.  This order for 
>      extermination of the Jews comes from higher authorities.  We must 
>      only reconcile ourselves to its conclusions, and can merely inform 
>      the Federal authorities that the removal of those Jews capable of 
>      working has led to tremendous difficulties.  Only recently I 
>      complained to State Secretary Ganzenmueller [top official in the 
>      Federal Transportation Ministry] that a huge building project in 
>      the General Government had come to a standstill, and that I could 
>      prove that this would not have happened had not the many thousands 
>      of Jews who were employed on that project been hauled away.  Now an 
>      order has been issued saying that all Jews should be taken off of 
>      armaments work; I hope that this order will be repealed, if it has 
>      not already been repealed, for otherwise I see the situation as 
>      even worse.
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Minutes of a Cabinet Meeting, from the Office Diary of Hans
> Frank, 9 December 1942 (588-89), quoted in "Holocaust 1939-1945: A 
> Collection of Primary Sources," selected and translated by John L. 
> Heineman, pp. 142-143.
> 
>     Sure sounds to me like Frank was talking about an explicit order.
> 
Here's the same passage translated by Hilberg:   
"Not unimportant labour reserves have been taken from us when we lost our 
old trustworthy Jews. It is clear that the labour situation is made more 
difficult when in the middle of the war effort, the order is given to 
prepare all Jews for annihilation. The responsibility for this order does 
not lie with the offices of the Generalgouvernement. The directive for the 
annihilation of the Jews comes from higher sources. We can only deal with 
the consequences of this situation, and we can tell the agencies of the 
Reich that the taking away of the Jews has led to tremendous difficulties in 
the labour field. Just the other day I could prove to Staatssekretar 
Ganzenmuller, who complained that a large construction project in the 
Generalgouvernement has come to a standstill, that that would not have 
happened if the many thousands of Jews who were employed there had not been 
taken away. Now the order provides that the armament Jews also are to be 
taken away. I hope that this order, if not already voided, will be revoked, 
because then the situation will be even worse.

Hilberg (1961) page 336.

My interpretation is that Frank is complaining about the removal of the jews 
>from  the generalgovernment and into concentration camps thus "annihilating" 
the jews, and the effect on the labour situation, . 
The order contains "the taking away of the jews", including the jews working 
on armaments. 
This refers to Himmlers order "I order the resettlement of the entire jewish 
population in the generalgovernment be carried out and completed by december 
31 1942. As of December 31, 1942, no persons of Jewish descent must remain 
in the Generalgouvernement unless they are living in camps at Warsaw, 
Krakow, Czestochowa, Radom, or Lublin. All other undertakings which employ 
Jewish labor have to be finished by that time or, if completion is not 
possible, have to be transferred to one of the camps."
These measures, Himmler continued, were necessary for the new order in 
Europe, as well as for the "security and cleanliness" of the German Reich 
and its spheres of interest. Every violation of this regulation would 
endanger peace and order and would create in Europe "the germ of a 
resistance movement and a moral and physical center of pestilence." 
[Himmler to Kruger July 19 1942 ] 
Refer to Hilberg [1961] pages 334-336 for the conflict between the security 
agencies led by Himmler and  those who wanted jews for labour. 


The translations seem to differ somewhat. Is german that variable? 
[eg the word "prepare" in the 2nd translation but not the first.] 
-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Tue Sep 12 08:24:55 PDT 1995
Article: 6975 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: MOLOTOV HAD NO SON
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 1995 17:23:29 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <559296960wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <20925951wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4289u1$dq6@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <869331139wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <42poj7$s9p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <42poj7$s9p@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>  kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca 
(Ken McVay OBC) writes:
> 
> In article <869331139wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>, jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk 
wrote:
> 
> >"In fact, Molotov had no son."
> >[page 19. Hitler's War[1991] by David Irving.  
> 
> It seems to me that it does not matter whether Molotov had a
> son or not; rather, what matters is whether or not Himmler
> _believed_ Molotov had a son, and that the son was on this
> particular transport.
> 
> (From David Kirk's translation of Ja"ckel's "David Irving's
> Hitler", postscript)
> 
>       Verhaftung Dr. Jekelius [name not fully decipherable] 
>       Angebl[ich] Sohn Molotovs.
>       Judentransport aus Berlin.  
>       keine Liquierung.<59> 
> 
>       That is: 'Arrest Dr.  Jekelius.  Presumably Molotov's son.
> 
> _Presumably_ Molotov's son.
> 
>       Transport of Jews from Berlin.  No Liquidation.' The last two
>       lines now make sense.  Himmler called Heydrich to instruct him
>       that a certain Dr.  Jekelius, presumed to be the Soviet Foreign
>       Minister's son, was to be taken in custody by the security police.
>       Jekelius could be located in the transport of Jews from Berlin ...
>       and unlike the rest of the transport, was not to be liquidated.
>       (Perhaps the Germans intended to exchange Jekelius for one of
>       their officers captured by the Russians.) 
> 
> _Presumed_to_be_ ...
> 
> -- 
>      The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
>                    Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
> Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
>    Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/
> 
> 

The text reads Arrest Dr Jakelius. 
               Alleged son Molotov. 
               Consignment of jews from Berlin
               No liquidation.

"these wizards of modern history scoffed that probably Molotovs son was 
believed to be aboard a trainload of jews from Berlin concealed as "Dr 
Jakelius" and was on no account to be liquidated. In fact Molotov had no 
son, Dr Jakelius was a Vienese neurologist involved in the Euthanesia 
program."

P19 Hitlers War 1991 by David Irving.




-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 13 11:24:09 PDT 1995
Article: 7130 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!philabs!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long'
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:47:22 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <589715355wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <9509122130.AA13096@lems24.lems.brown.edu>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <9509122130.AA13096@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  dk@lems.brown.edu 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
> [Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
> Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
> "Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
> "one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
> child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
> Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
> only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
> we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
> chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
> over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
> of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
> prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
> Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
> SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
> they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
> fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
> stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
> as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
> the two next ones were already being shot. Everything went very 
> quickly. The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long. Once
> the following happened: I was carrying the front end of the
> stretcher. Suddenly I heard a voice behind me: "Mr.
> Oberscharfuehrer, you didn't shoot well". Stiewitz had done the
> shooting, and he said: "Shut up, or you'll get it". We had to put
> down the stretcher, and Stiewitz once more shot him in the head.
> 
> 
> 
The "Black Wall" or "Wall of Death" of Auschwitz situated between blocks 10 
and 11, is a place where some 20,000 prisoners were allegedly shot. 
[Ditleib] Felderer was surprised to find a wall only one row of bricks deep, 
which would have been pulverized after two or three rounds, and no bullet 
marks in the area. He never recieved an explanation which satisfied him.  


[Page 133 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Wed Sep 13 14:09:16 PDT 1995
Article: 7130 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!philabs!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 'The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long'
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 13:47:22 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <589715355wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <9509122130.AA13096@lems24.lems.brown.edu>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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X-Broken-Date: Wednesday, Sep 13, 1995 13.47.22
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <9509122130.AA13096@lems24.lems.brown.edu>  dk@lems.brown.edu 
(Daniel Keren) writes:
> 
> The testimony of former Auschwitz prisoner Fabian
> [Quoted in "Auschwitz: the Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by 
> Bernd Nauman, p. 292-3]:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The Pole Stachik rode into Block 28 on a bicycle and called out: 
> "Stretcher bearers! Two stretchers! One box! Two boxes!". If he said
> "one box", we knew it would be a small execution: one family with
> child. If he said "stretcher", then there was a big execution.
> Sometimes when we got there they had already been shot; but that
> only happened in small executions. When there were big executions
> we lined up in a corner of Block 11. Those who were selected were
> chased into the washroom and had to undress. The window was covered
> over with a blanket. In the yard under the window stood the staff
> of the SS. Everything went in double time. A certain Jakob took two
> prisoners by their arms and marched them over to the Black Wall. 
> Then we had to come running with the stretcher and stand behind the
> SS men who were doing the firing. When the prisoners were shot -
> they were shot in the head with a fairly silent Flobert gun - they
> fell over. I grabbed their hands or legs and put them on the
> stretcher. Then we ran to the canal in Block 10 and the stretcher
> as tilted so the bodies could fall off. While this was going on
> the two next ones were already being shot. Everything went very 
> quickly. The shooting of 100 prisoners did not take very long. Once
> the following happened: I was carrying the front end of the
> stretcher. Suddenly I heard a voice behind me: "Mr.
> Oberscharfuehrer, you didn't shoot well". Stiewitz had done the
> shooting, and he said: "Shut up, or you'll get it". We had to put
> down the stretcher, and Stiewitz once more shot him in the head.
> 
> 
> 
The "Black Wall" or "Wall of Death" of Auschwitz situated between blocks 10 
and 11, is a place where some 20,000 prisoners were allegedly shot. 
[Ditleib] Felderer was surprised to find a wall only one row of bricks deep, 
which would have been pulverized after two or three rounds, and no bullet 
marks in the area. He never recieved an explanation which satisfied him.  


[Page 133 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst Zundel by 
Robert Lenski.

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:10 PDT 1995
Article: 7491 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: COKE SENT TO AUSCHWITZ
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:49:14 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 99
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 14, 1995 19.49.14
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In article:   bzs@world.std.com (Barry 
Shein) writes:
>
> Oh and what the heck, the piece of evidence Mr Raven et al hates so
> much. The Franke-Gricksch report, a report made by a Nazi officer after
> his inspection of Auschwitz and submitted to Heinrich Himmler in 1943:
> 
>   "..the unfit go to cellars in a large house which are entered
>    from outside.  They go down five or six steps into a fairly long, 
>    well-constructed and well-ventilated cellar area, which is lined 
>    with benches to the left and right. It is brightly lit, and 
>    the benches are numbered.  The prisoners are told that they are to 
>    be cleansed and disinfected for their new assignments.  They must 
>    therefore 
>    completely undress to be bathed. To avoid panic and to prevent
>    disturbances of any kind, they are instructed to arrange their
>    clothing neatly under their respective numbers, so that they will
>    be able to find their things again after their bath.  Everything
>    proceeds in a perfectly orderly fashion.  Then they pass through 
>    a small corridor and enter a large cellar room which resembles a
>    shower bath.  In this room are three large pillars, into which
>    certain materials can be lowered from outside the cellar room.
>    When three- to four-hundred people have been herded into this room,
>    the doors are shut, and containers filled with the substances are
>    dropped down into the pillars.  As soon as the containers touch 
>    the base of the pillars, they release particular substances that put
>    the people to sleep in one minute. 
>    A few minutes later, the door opens  on the other side, where the 
>    elevator is located. . . . Then
>    the corpses are loaded into elevators and brought up to the first
>    floor, where ten large crematoria are located. (Because fresh
>    corpses burn particularly well, only 50-100 lbs. of coke are needed
>    for the whole process.)  The job itself is performed by Jewish
>    prisoners, who never step outside this camp again.
>       The results of this `resettlement action' to date: 500,000 Jews
>    Current capacity of the `resettlement action' ovens: 10,000
>    in twenty-four hours."

>                   --from report entitled "Resettlement of Jews"
>                     written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Alfred Franke-Gricksch
>                     for SS-Col. M. von Herff and RF-SS H. Himmler, after
>                     inspection of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 1943.  This
>                     excerpt from "Hitler and the Final Solution" by
>                     Gerald Fleming, ISBN 0-520-05103-3.
> 
> This report done after Inspection of Auschwitz on 14-16 May 1943:

The above "report" is a forgery, but lets for the moment accept the idea 
that 50 to 100 lbs is neccessary to cremate a corpse.

"victims of the Auschwitz crematoria exceeds 700,000"
[The Final Solution (1968) Reitlinger. p501]  

1) 700,000 x  50 lbs  = 35 000 000 lbs =   15,625 tons of Coke.
2) 700,000 x 100 lbs =  70 000 000 lbs =   31,250 tons of Coke.
 
But of course, you have to remember the Nazis actually used the crematoria 
in the function of "incinerators". Of course, that's why the Nazis built 
crematoria, as a cover, because building actual incinerators would have 
given the game away, immediately. They would have been easily spotted by 
allied photo-recce planes, but luckily the allies won't allowed to send any 
over, despite the genocide going on. So it was easy to use the crematoria as 
incinerators. This is because using crematories as incinerators to cremate 
people is more efficent than using crematoria to cremate people. And of 
course crematoria which are being used in the function of incinerators use 
less coke and can cremate many more corpses at the same time than an 
crematorium can. Also crematoria used in the function of "incinerators" can 
be kept going day and night, don't need to be cleaned blah blah blah

EVEN if we halve the lower figure [to allow for kids, etc] we still come up 
with an incredible figure.

(700,000 x  50 lbs  = 35 000 000 lbs)/2 =   7,812 tons of Coke.
 

QUESTION :

This is a enormous amount of coke. 
[How much in a normal train load?]

How much coke was sent to fuel the Auschwitz Krema?  




The Leuchter Report is available from:- 
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:11 PDT 1995
Article: 7492 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: 4 QUESTIONS FOR DAN KAREN
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:04:09 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <330901015wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <96057040wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> 
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article:   dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) 
writes:
> 
> Jeff  writes:
> 
> I honestly can't understand how come Jeff Roberts is
> continuing with these question about starvation, after
> Jamie McCarthy had posted an excerpt in which Hans Frank,
> Governor of Nazi-occupied Poland, explicitly says that
> Jews will be starved to death.
> 
> Roberts can also look at those movies of tens-of-thousands
> of emaciated corpses at Belsen and elsewhere. Maybe he'll
> learn something.
> 
> I am sending a copy of this to Jamie McCarthy; Jamie, could
> you post that excerpt again, for Roberts to read?
> 
> 
> -Danny Keren.
> 
> 
> 

Notice how Keren who says that was a deliberate starvation policy for detainees cannot answer the 4 simple questions I put on his assertion. 

Indeed, he has to get Jamie McCarthy, to "answer", as usual completely off-point. 
 
One can only conclude, that there was NO deliberate policy by the Nazis to starve detainees. 


-- 
Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------





From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:12 PDT 1995
Article: 7493 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: FORGED DOCUMENTS AT NUREMBERG
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:40:06 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 307
Message-ID: <615884381wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <494311434wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <42tbs4$cki@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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In article: <42tbs4$cki@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>  jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca 
(John Morris) writes:

JM> neither the page numbers nor the translations of testimony match the
the English edition. It would seem to be the case that someone has
translated Rassinier's work from French without bothering to correct
his references to the English version.

Note in the book: "Readers should keep in mind that the pagination is 
different depending on which edition of the series (the blue series of the 
IMT trial) is consulted." [page 432]  

>>At Nuremberg, the Prosecution and the Judges got sensational results by 
>>this method. Notice this curious document P.S. 3319 (N.M.T. XXXII, pp. 
>>159-92) 

> We can only deduce from what follows that "this method" refers to
> having forged documents admitted into evidence and to refusing to
> allow defendants and their counsel to view documents admitted into
> evidence. As I hope to show below, Rassinier has so thoroughly
> misrepresented the conduct of the trials, the documents, and the
> contexts in which documents were examined that his own account itself
> constitutes a "forgery." 

Rassinier correctly quotes the page number and Note number in Hilbergs Book. 
[1961 version page 502 note 709], and I expect correctly quotes all the 
IMT references. Not a good way to tell a lie.

>> which Mr. Raul Hilberg cites and comments upon (1961 pp. 502-709). In 
question is the organisation, by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the 
Third Reich, of an anti-Jewish congress at Krummhubel on April 3 and 4, 
1944, with all the representatives at foreign posts participating. In 27 
pages a certain Ludwig Kohlhammer, Landesgruppenleiter, reports very 
exactly on the number of participants - 31 persons - and their names and  
what each one said.
Now, this congress never took place. 
 
[snip]
 
JM> It is not at all clear from testimony given by Steengracht,
> Ribbentrop's deputy, and later by Ribbentrop, that the congress never
> took place. It is only clear that they both denied that the congress
> took place.

It is also not clear, whether the Congress did take place. I have seen no 
reference whatsoever to it in any book.  
I checked Hilberg, Reitlinger, Irving, and several others, no reference to 
any such anti-Jewish congress.

> 
[snip]
 
>>March 27, 1946, [Adolf] von Steengracht (Secretary of State, Foreign 
Affairs, Third Reich) is interrogated by Colonel Philimore deputy 
prosecutor-general for the English, who asks him:
"I would now like to bring up the question of the Jews. You told us 
yesterday that you yourself and Mr. Ribbentrop had prevented the anti-Jewish 
Congress of 1944 from taking place. Is that true?
 
>>"Yes," answered von Steengracht. (T.X., p. 137.) [X.127]
 
JM> Steengracht's assertion that the anti-Jewish congress never took place
> must be viewed in light of his testimony as a witness called by the
> defence in which he denies any involvement by the Foreign Office in
> anti-Jewish actions. Yet he admits to having signed a document
> establishing that the Foreign Office did indeed undertake anti-Jewish
> actions. If anything, Phillimore demonstrated Steengracht's complete
> unreliability as a witness and his willingness to lie.

Remember that; Mr Morris claims Steengracht was a DEFENCE witness. 
And says "If anything, Phillimore demonstrated Steengracht's complete 
unreliability as a witness and his willingness to lie."   

Quote:

"The crushing written evidence was reinforced by oral testimony from former 
subordinates of the defendents, such as Staatssekretare [Josef] Buhler and 
[Adolf] Steengracht and SS men [Otto] Ohlendorf, [Dieter] Wisliceny, 
[wilhelm] Hottl, [Rudolf] Hoess and [Oswald] Pohl. 
The sight of these men provoked consternation in the defence and when 
Himmlers own favoured general, Obergruppenfurhrer von dem Bach-Zelewski, 
testified for the prosecution, the prisoners were unanimous in calling him a 
schwein." 
(cf Hilberg Destruction...1961, p 688) 

Why should the sight of Steengracht, who Mr Morris states is a DEFENCE 
witness provoke "consternation in the defence" ?  The answer I suspect was 
Steengracht was NOT a defence witness. Or maybe he was called by the 
prosecution as well as being a defence witness. This may have been allowed 
by the IMT. Who knows what the rules of the IMT were then as it seems that 
were er still making them [up] as Mr Morris says. This is a trial of course 
of which a top american Judge was a "high-grade lynching party".  

>> And this is what he stated the day before in reply to a question put by 
Dr. Horn, von Ribbentrop's counsel:
"Our liaison with Hitler informed us that the latter, informed by    
Bormann, had ordered Rosenberg's office to organize an anti-Semitic 
congress. Ribbentrop did not want to believe it, but after having had a 
conversation with the liaison agent, he had to believe it. Since this 
decision made it impossible for us to prevent the congress through official 
channels, we tried to prevent it with a policy of hesitation, delay and 
obstruction And, although the order had been issued in the spring of 1944, 
and the war was still not over in April 1945, the congress never took 
place." (T.X., p.125.)[X.116]
 
JM> Yes, defence witness Steengracht under questioning from defence
> counsel Horn testified on 26 March 1946 that he and Ribbentrop tried
> to prevent the anti-Jewish congress which had been ordered by Hitler.
> However, document PS-3319, in part containing the proceedings of the
> congress, was not entered into evidence until 27 March 1946 (X.127).
> It is plain that the existence of the conference was known from other
> documents and testimonies and not, as Rassinier implies below, solely
> through PS-3319.
 

>> On April 2, 1946, von Ribbentrop is interrogated by Mr. Edgar Faure, who 
the time was  deputy prosecutor-general for France, and who later was to 
become President of Council in France:
Mr. Edgar Faure (to Ribbentrop): "During the examination of your witness 
Steengracht, the English prosecutor brought forth document P.S. 3319,  which 
has the English No. G.B. 287. I would like to refer to this document just 
for one question: In this document appear the minutes of a congress, of a 
gathering at which were present all the reporters on Jewish matters in the 
various diplomatic missions in Europe. This congress was held at Krummhubel 
on April 3 and 4, 1944. It had been organized by Schleier.  That was read 
the other day. You knew about this congress, I suppose?"
von Ribbentrop: "No, I am hearing about it for the first time. What was that 
congress? I have not even heard that such a congress took place. What sort 
of a congress was it?"
 
JM> Ribbentrop, who was present in the court during Steengracht's
> testimony, could hardly have been hearing about the congress for "the
> first time." His defence counsel had access to PS-3319 for one full
> week from its introduction by Col. Phillimore for the prosecution on
> 27 March 1946 until Ribbentrop was questioned about it on 2 April
> 1946. But Ribbentrop's mode of response throughout his testimony on 2
> April 1946 is deny everything presented to him and to evade answering
> direct questions by claiming not to understand what he is being asked.
> Note also that Ribbentrop denies any knowledge of a congress which his
> deputy had testified they worked together to prevent.
> 

>>Mr. Faure: The document has been filed with the Tribunal and I simply want 
to ask you one question. You have testified that you did not know about this 
gathering at which were pre-sent thirty one persons, almost all of them 
diplomatic personnel. I point out to you that during this reunion Counsellor 
of Embassy von Thadden made a declaration which was reported
in the following terms: 
'The orator is showing why the Zionist solution of Palestine and other
similar solutions should be rejected, and why there are grounds for the
deportation of the Jews to the eastern territories.'
I suggest that this declaration made by a Counsellor of Embassy before 
thirty one persons in your department represented your own thesis on the 
subject."
von Ribbentrop: "Yes, but I do not know at all what you are trying to say. 
Will you please put the document at my disposal so that I may answer?"
Mr Faure. "I have no intention of showing you this document ..(T.X.,p.420)."
 
> But what is the whole of Faure's remark, and what context is it
> presented in?
> 
>    Mr Faure. "I do not intend to show you this document. I read one
>    sentence contained in this document, and I am merely asking you if
>    this phrase [on rejecting the Palestine option] represents your
>    opinion or not."
> 
> Faure was simply asking a question about a single sentence in the
> account of the proceedings of the anti-Jewish congress. The sentence
> was not even attributed to Ribbentrop but to one of his officials, and
> Faure wanted to know if Thadden's sentiments were shared by
> Ribbentrop. There was no good reason to pass the document over to
> Ribbentrop.

How long would have taken? a minute. 
 
> Now, if Faure was so interested in denying the defence and the
> defendants access to documents, why did Faure pass several documents
> to Ribbentrop while he stood on the witness stand on 2 April 1946?
> Anyone who cares to look will see that Faure gave Ribbentrop an
> affidavit on the deportation of Jews from Denmark by Mildmer of the
> Danish Police (X.397), a note from Luther from Ribbentrop's own files
> citing the order to evacuate the Jews from Europe (PS-3388, X.397),
> Ribbentrop's own definition of the purpose of Abetz' ambassadorship in
> Vichy France (which was to loot art treasures) (X.399), and another
> from Ribbentrop's files on the settlement of the Jewish question
> (X.399).
> 
> Ribbentrop's response to each and every document that was handed to
> him was that he either had never heard of the document, had never
> heard of the people named in them (sometimes his own officials), or
> that he did not understand what was being asked of him. No matter how
> absurd his denials became in the face of the documentary evidence
> presented to him, Ribbentrop was consistent in denying anything and
> everything presented to him.
> 
> If Ribbentrop had indeed prevented the anti-Jewish congress from
> occurring, it would have been the only truthful thing he said on
> matters of substance in the whole of his testimony on 2 April 1946.
> 

>>THAT WAS THE PROOF OF FORGERY. It was also a typical breach Of the Rule of 
> 
> That was no proof of forgery at all. The document was introduced into
> evidence one week prior to Ribbentrop's testimony and had been
> available to his defence counsel through the whole of that week. When
> PS-3319 was introduced, Ribbentrop's counsel did not object, though he
> may been seen objecting several times during the testimonies given on
> 26 and 27 March and 2 April 1946. It was certainly not the case that
> defence counsel was stripped of the rights and powers normally
> available to counsel in the course of a trial.
> 
>>Procedure No. 2 of the Tribunal itself which provided that "all the 
>>documents appended to the Indictment shall be put at the disposition of 
>>the 
>>defendants not less than 30 days before the trials" (T.I., p. 21). This 
>>matter was never spoken of again. If one looks in the Index of Names (T., 
>>24) for information on landesgruppenleiter Ludwig Kohlhammer, he is not 
>>listed. But, Document P.S. 3319 was admitted into evidence.
> 

> I am not certain if a distinction should be made between documents
> appended to the indictment and documents entered into evidence in the
> course of the trial. I do know, however, that the protocols for
> entering documents were different at different stages of the trial and
> that any change in protocols was made by the mutual consent of the
> court, the defence, and the prosecution. The defence was allowed
> access to all documents entered, and they were allowed to, and
> frequently did, call recesses to examine documents entered into
> evidence including PS-3319.
> 
> >[ pages 231-233 The Holocaust Story and the Lies of Ulysses by Paul 
> >Rassinier.]
> 
> One thing that interests me about Rassinier's account is that he would
> have to have searched pretty hard to find Faure's refusal to hand a
> document over to Ribbentrop and that he could hardly have missed the
> context of that refusal and the many times that Ribbentrop was handed
> documents by Faure. I can only conclude that Rassinier's account of
> Ribbentrop's testimony on the anti-Jewish congress is a complete and
> deliberate fraud.
> 
> Rassinier's claim that PS-3319 was a forgery because the defence was
> not allowed to look at the document is palpable nonsense that is not
> borne out by the published record of the trials, and his implication
> that it was standard practice in the trials to deny the defence access
> to evidence presented against the defendants is a misrepresentation of
> the conduct of the trials and the protocols under which they operated.
> In addition, Rassinier misrepresents the contents of PS-3319 by
> implying that its sole contents are the proceedings of the anti-Jewish
> congress and represents the evidence that the congress took place by
> implying that PS-3319 was the only evidence that the congress took
> place.
> 
> Mr. Robert's post is an excellent example both of the "scholarly"
> procedures of the chief Revisionist writers in distorting and
> misrepresenting the historical record in order to prove their absurd
> thesis that the Holocaust is a hoax and of how easy it is to spread
> falsehood compared to exposing it: in the case of this rebuttal, it
> was a week before I had the time to do the research, and I spent a
> good couple of hours reading the IMT trial records as part of that
> research. None of this effort would have been expended if Mr. Roberts
> had bothered to check the accuracy of what he was posting.
> 
> In the thread on the Lachout forgery, which he also posted, Mr.
> Roberts declared that he never knowingly posted falsehoods and he
> promised not to repost the Lachout forgery again.
> 
> I invite Mr. Robert to live up to the spirit of that promise and to
> publicly undertake not to post any further excerpts from Mr.
> Rassiner's book _The Holocaust Story and the Lies of Ulysses_ which,
> as would appear from this excerpt, is laced with falsehoods.
> 

Is this case, Rassinier:-

1) Correctly identifies the page number and the note number in Hilbergs 
book. 
2) Gives and identifies the IMT numbers in the blue series.
3) Correctly identifies the document number.  
4) Correctly identifies the witnesses.
5) Correctly identifies the counsels. 
6) Correctly identifies the dates on which the events took place.

Doesn't sound like a deliberate falsehood to me.

If you can answer these 4 questions then I will refrain from posting this 
claim by Rassinier. 

QUESTION 1: Was Steengracht a defence or prosecution witness?
QUESTION 2: Have you any proof outside the IMT that the congress took place?
QUESTION 3: Is Ludwig Kohlhammer listed in the index of names?
QUESTION 4: Was this a document that was appended to the indictment?

["all the documents appended to the indictment shall be put at the 
disposition of the defendents not less than 30 days before the trials"]


-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:13 PDT 1995
Article: 7494 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HANS FRANK AND EXPLICIT ORDERS
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 17:52:35 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <827486962wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <682878023wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <42e25p$rdf@access4.digex.net> <111453027wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <42pvq0$dqt@access5.digex.net>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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In article: <42pvq0$dqt@access5.digex.net>  mstein@access5.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:

ms>      Recently they have taken away a non-insignificant portion of our 
      old, protected Jewish workers.  It is clear that the process of 
      finding workers is made more difficult when, in the middle of this
      war-related jobs program, an order comes that all Jews are to be 
      exterminated.  [In German "alle Juden sind der Vernichtung anheim
      zu stellen", literally "All Jews are to be submitted to 
      extermination."]
 [...]
     Sure sounds to me like Frank was talking about an explicit order.
 

jr>Here's the same passage translated by Hilberg:   
"Not unimportant labour reserves have been taken from us when we lost our 
old trustworthy Jews. It is clear that the labour situation is made more 
difficult when in the middle of the war effort, the order is given to 
prepare all Jews for annihilation. [...]
Hilberg (1961) page 336.

Notice how the word "Vernichtung" which doesn't mean "extermination" is 
translated to mean "extermination". Notice how the word "prepare" is in the 
second translation but not in the first.

ms>     It doesn't seem all that different to me.  For technical reasons I 
do prefer "annihilation" to "extermination," but in practical terms they 
mean the same thing to me in this context.
 

jr>My interpretation is that Frank is complaining about the removal of the 
jews from the generalgovernment and into concentration camps thus 
"annihilating" the jews, and the effect on the labour situation, [...]

 
ms>     Very well, Mr. Roberts.  Your mission, should you decide to accept 
it, is to find one thesaurus, in English or German, which gives as a synonym
for "annihilation" or "Vernichtung" any of the following: expulsion,
deportation, imprisonment, detention, transportation, internment,
migration, removal (by means other than destruction), or any similar word
that a literate speaker would recognize as a synonym.  Failing that,
perhaps you can find another text which uses the word in question in a
context where they clearly mean one of those (non-lethal) things.
Failing that, perhaps you can retrieve Frank's school records which 
show that he received poor marks in German, so that he didn't really 
understand what "Vernichtung" meant.
[snip]
ms> Frankly (no pun intended) I think you've got your work cut out for you.
 
Not really.

Vernichtung does mean "annihilation", I did not mean that it was a 
"codeword" for something else. Although of course, anti-revisionists think 
that "morgue" is a codeword for "gas chamber", "in readiness for transport" 
is code for "to be gassed", "seperately quartered" is code for "to be 
gassed" and "dragged through" is code for [have a guess?] etc etc etc etc
etc etc

And Hans Frank is using the word in its sense for "annihilation".  


I think you've missed my point here. Hans Frank was REFERING to the Himmler 
order [already posted] to transfer jews from the generalgovernment of Poland 
into camps. 

Himmler has ordered this done for security/political reasons. The Himmler order doesn't contain a explicit order to exterminate the jews. 

Hans Frank says the order[ie the Himmler order] is to prepare the jews for 
annihilation. 

Since Hitler often refered in his speeches to his statement in 1939 that if 
the jews plunged Europe into war it will not be the Aryan peoples that will 
be extipated, but it would be the jews will be annihilated.  
It is then not surprising that Hans Frank then says the Himmler order is a 
preparation for "annihilation." 



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------




From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:14 PDT 1995
Article: 7495 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: FRANKE-GRICKSCH REPORT IS A FAKE
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:24:58 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 229
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"..the unfit go to cellars in a large house which are entered from outside. 
They go down five or six steps into a fairly long, well-constructed and 
well-ventilated cellar area, which is lined with benches to the left and 
right. It is brightly lit, and the benches are numbered.  The prisoners are 
told that they are to be cleansed and disinfected for their new assignments. 
They must therefore completely undress to be bathed. To avoid panic and to 
prevent disturbances of any kind, they are instructed to arrange their
clothing neatly under their respective numbers, so that they will be able to 
find their things again after their bath.  Everything proceeds in a 
perfectly orderly fashion.  Then they pass through a small corridor and 
enter a large cellar room which resembles a shower bath.  In this room are 
three large pillars, into which certain materials can be lowered from 
outside the cellar room. When three- to four-hundred people have been herded 
into this room, the doors are shut, and containers filled with the 
substances are dropped down into the pillars.  As soon as the containers 
touch the base of the pillars, they release particular substances that put
the people to sleep in one minute. 
A few minutes later, the door opens  on the other side, where the 
elevator is located. . . . Then the corpses are loaded into elevators and 
brought up to the first floor, where ten large crematoria are located. 
(Because fresh corpses burn particularly well, only 50-100 lbs. of coke are 
needed for the whole process.)  The job itself is performed by Jewish
prisoners, who never step outside this camp again. The results of this 
`resettlement action' to date: 500,000 Jews 
Current capacity of the `resettlement action' ovens: 10,000 in twenty-four 
hours."
                   --from report entitled "Resettlement of Jews"
written by SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Alfred Franke-Gricksch for SS-Col. M. von 
Herff and RF-SS H. Himmler, after inspection of Auschwitz camp on 14-16 May 
1943.  This  excerpt from "Hitler and the Final Solution" by Gerald Fleming, 
                

The Franke-Gricksch 'Resettlement Action Report': A Fabrication

The Franke-Gricksch Report is considered by many to be an extremely
important document in making the case for mass exterminations. Gerald
Fleming, for example, devotes an entire chapter of his book "Hitler
and the Final Solution" to an evaluation of this document. 

According to legend, the original document was supposedly found in 
Major Alfred Franke-Gricksch's career file by Eric Lipman, an officer with 
the War Crimes Branch of the U.S. Third Army (supposedly Lipman was 
tipped to its existence after finding a carbon copy of the document 
somewhere in Bavaria). Lipman supposedly excerpted the Report from 
the document by making a typescript copy (that is, typing a copy in 
German from the German original). The carbon copy of the original was 
then turned over to the prosecution team at Nuremberg, while the original 
(according to Pressac) is now thought to be preserved in the National 
Archives Collection reference NA RG 238. However, the original seems to 
have become lost, and as of the middle of 1991 no one else has seen hide 
nor hair of it.

The American prosecution team at Nuremberg never made use of this
document, which raises the question as to whether they ever received it,
which in turn raises questions at to whether it even exists. 

On Gerald Fleming's part, on February 19, 1991, Brian Renk requested a
copy of the carbon copy of the original document from which the Report was
allegedly excerpted. Fleming responded by sending a photocopy of the
Report ONLY, this in spite of the fact that Fleming has claimed to have in
his possession one of three carbon copies of the original document. 

Fleming doesn't mention that the Franke-Gricksch "report" is
but part of a larger document, and that is just one of the problems he has
with this document. For example, in his book he fails to state that the
document to which he devotes an entire chapter is nowhere signed by
Franke-Gricksch. He also erroneously stated in a private letter to F-G's
widow that her husband had signed this Report. He also avoids mentioning
the peculiarities in the document (discussed below). He also finds fault
with only one portion of the Report, and then goes on to quote Filip
Mueller as an expert on the topic! Therefore, Fleming is ignorant of the
true source of the document, and overlooks (conceals? misrepresents?)
problems in the document in order to make his point. 

Fleming does not let the F-G report off the hook completely, however. 
He states: 

Franke-Gricksch's account of 'the execution of the Fuehrer-order,"; namely, 
the lowering of 'certain materials' into a large cellar room resembling a 
'shower bath' and activation and release of 'particular substances that put 
people to sleep in one minute' is a fraudulent and cynical white-washing of 
death by gassing. 

What we  are left with then, is no original or carbon copy thereof, and the
only evidence we have of this document's existence is the excerpted
Report, the deficiencies of which I shall examine now. 

Among of the most obvious things wrong with this "document" is the 
accidental use of English words in place of German words. Some of these 
anglicisms were corrected on the typescript copy, some were not. For 
example, on the first line of the report, "had" for "hat" "der" the second 
word of line 2, typed over "the" and on line 3, "hier" typed over "here" On 
line 8 of the second page of the report, the alleged copyist typed "had" but 
corrected it to "hat" only to begin the following word with "t" (evidently 
for "the") before catching that and typing the correct German definite 
article "die" Furthermore, in the final paragraph of page 1, the English 
participial ending "d" is twice typed for the German "t" that is 
"ausgestatted" for "ausgestattet" on line 5, which has been corrected, and 
"gebaded" for "gebadet" on line 9. Last but not least, the verb "kommt" is 
used twice with the same subject in the sentence beginning on line 6 of the 
third paragraph of line 1.

All that aside, any reasonable person reading this "report" would 
immediately suspect something is wrong. Where is this "house" Where are the 
hollow pillars? What  "certain substances" are used? How is it possible to 
open the doors a few minutes after a lethal gassing when a deadly poison is 
supposedly still rampant in the air? How can the hair be cut off without 
first rinsing it of the poison gas? 
Just how big is this house that it has elevators for hundreds of dead 
people? 
Is it normal for large Polish houses to have ten large crematories? By what 
amazing physical property do fresh corpses burn particularly well? If it 
takes a modern crematory 2 to 3 hours to partially dispose of a human 
corpse, how can 10,000 corpses be disposed of in 24 hours with only 10 
crematories?

Pressac says (on page 244), ";On 28th June, following the 
handover of Krematorium III, the last one to be completed, Jaehrling 
calculated the overall throughput for the five Krematorien as 4,756 people 
in 24 hours, and sent this information to SS General Kammler in Berlin 
(Document 68). This official figure, coolly doubled when explaining 
operations to high-ranking visitors (ef. SS Major Franke-Gricksch's report 
above, giving a figure of 10,000 in 24 hours), had no basis in practice, and 
probably has to be divided by two or three to arrive at the true 
figure.";

Pressac is also much less generous than Fleming regarding other 
aspects of the Franke-Gricksch "report". Among the points he 
notes in this report are:

The ";large house"; is actually Krema II at Birkenau.
There are not 5 or 6 steps into the Leichenkeller, but 10.
There are not 3 pillars inside the ";gas chamber"; but 4.
The ";doors"; cannot be closed when there is only one door involved.
There is no door to open ";on the other side"; because 
again there is only one door.
The lift does not take the corpses to the first floor, but to the ground 
floor.
There are not 10 crematoria furnaces but 5 three-muffle furnaces.
There were probably not 500,000 Jews in killed in May, 1943, and true 
number is somewhere between 200,000 and 250,000.
The capacity of Krema II was not 10,000 per 24 hours, but rather 4,756 
for all FIVE crematoria combined, and even this is a theoretical output 
"that was never achieved in 1943, as proved by the Krematorium 
coke consumption". Pressac calls this claim "another Auschwitz SS propaganda 
figure passed on by Franke-Gricksch."

To make up for these deficiencies, Pressac follows his usual procedure of 
concocting an elaborate scenario in an attempt to preserve the desirable 
portions of the Report while shrugging off the ridiculous portions.

Even at this, Pressac misses some of the problems with this document. 
For example:

He fails to explain how the Sonderkommando members 
could have resisted the lingering Zyklon B gas as they went to work 
hauling bodies from the gas chamber, removing gold teeth, etc., only 
"a few minutes" after the killings.

Anyone visiting the ruins of Leichenkeller I can see that the four 
pillars are not hollow at all, but are solid, which would have prevented 
anything from being dropped down them.

Pressac fails to address the assertion that "fresh corpses burn 
particularly well".

Pressac ignores the Report's mention of a "special rail track into 
an area of the camp specifically set aside for this purpose." 
Although there was a rail spur into Birkenau, work was not begun on 
it until January, 1944. (This single reference, by the way, is enough by 
itself to show that this document is almost certainly a post-war 
forgery.

Unmentioned by both Fleming and Pressac is the fact that nowhere in the 
report does it say that Franke-Gricksch SAW the process he describes. In 
fact, the report claims he was given a tour of the facilities and the 
process was explained to him. We know from the records at Auschwitz that 
Franke-Gricksch was there from May 14-16, 1943.

These are certainly remarkable characteristics for what Fleming, 
Pressac, and others advance as a simple transcription of a German 
original. A less trusting (or perhaps more scrupulous) interpreter would be 
well within his rights to suggest that this document was based on an 
English-language, not German-language, source.

In short, what we have here is 
1) a carbon copy of a typed copy of a carbon copy of an original document, 
and this original document has never surfaced, 
2) gross errors in the typed copy that would lead any scholar to suspect 
that the "Report" was not copied from a German document, but translated from 
an English original (that is, forged), and 
3) several inaccuracies in the Report itself, at least one of 
which damns the Report as a forgery.

Ask yourself this question: with all the tons and tons of papers 
removed from Germany after the war, with all the code intercepts during 
the war, with all the intelligence activity during the war, why do 
exterminationists find themselves forced to refer to transparent 
fabrications such as the Franke-Gricksch Report to support their position? 
The mass gassing of millions of Jews (and millions of others) is no easy 
task, and would certainly leave behind some trace. Without this trace, the 
only conclusion is that it never happened.



Anyone interested in a fuller treatment of this document are directed 
to ";The Franke-Gricksch 'Resettlement Action Report': Anatomy of 
a Fabrication,"; by Brian Renk, which appeared in the Fall 1991 
Journal of Historical Review, page 261.


The Journal of Historical Review is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.



-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:15 PDT 1995
Article: 7496 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: SURVEY OF 26,674 GERMANS FINDS NO GENOCIDE EVIDENCE
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:48:29 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 24
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"Soon after the German surrender, 26,674 interned German political leaders 
were questioned about their knowledge of a jewish extermination 
program, and each denied knowing anything."




p58 Holocaust on Trial by Robert Lenski 

Availble from :- 
The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.



Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:16 PDT 1995
Article: 7497 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: TORTURE USED BY "AMERICAN" INTEROGATORS
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:40:13 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 119
Message-ID: <523701256wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
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Petrat's post-conviction plea was in the case file, a forlorn voice from the 
grave which I read with pangs of sorrow. His statement had been prepared in 
German had been submitted to the Military Governor of the US Zone of 
Occupation in English translation. Since no more than a handful of Americans 
have seen this or any other  German "war criminal's" side of the story, I 
reproduce it in its entirety, as follows:

I, Gustav PETRAT, born 12 November 1924 in Wirballen/Litauen [Lithuania], 
presently in Landsberg/Lech, make the following sworn statement after I have 
been informed that this statement is to be submitted to the Military 
Governor of the US Zone and that an false statement may be severely 
punished.

l. In May 1944, on account of my wound, I was transferred to the guard 
personnel of the Mauthausen concentration camp and served there as dog 
leader with the 16th Guard Company. My rank was Corporal (Rottenfuehrer) in 
the Armed (Waffen) SS.

2. On 10 May 1945, I was taken prisoner by American  soldiers in Reid near 
Mauthausen and taken to the Tittling camp. When I got there I was mistreated 
with whips, fists and feet, as was the general custom at that time for newly 
arrived prisoners.

3. Like many others I was quartered in a potato patch in the open air, so 
that we all were exposed to the weather.
The first three days we received nothing to eat, and from the fourth day on 
they gave us one loaf of bread for every 20 prisoners and 1 litre of soup 
for every two men. Under these conditions I lived for some weeks until I was 
totally undernourished, so that it was hardly possible for me to move from 
the spot.

4. On 26 May 1945 I had my first interrogation there, which was one of the 
most memorable of my entire captivity. Even before they asked me the first 
Question, they struck me so that I collapsed. After I had managed to stagger 
upright again in spite of my weak condition and aided by the necessary kicks 
>from  the interrogator, the real interrogation began. They asked me questions 
that I could not have answered if I had the best will in the world to do so. 
I was to state where the leader of the Mauthausen Concentration Camp was. It 
was impossible for me to give the information, since I really didn't know, 
and, as a little corporal I couldn't know. My reply loosed a hail of blows. 
The second question concerned myself. They asked me how many prisoners I had 
shot and beaten, to which I replied truthfully and with a clean conscience, 
"Not one."
Then the interrogator drew a pistol and threatened to kill me if I did not 
tell the truth, immediately. He meant, however, that I should be hanged. I 
told him again that I only spoke the truth and he could kill me if he wanted 
to, that at least I would be freed from the whole mess. Then more blows, and 
with a push in the small of the back I fled [sic].

5. On 9 May 1945 I was taken to the Moosburg internment camp with about 80 
other prisoners. On 7 September 1945 I had my second interrogation, in 
Moosburg, at which they asked me the same questions they asked in the 
Tittling camp. There too, I received blows from a whip. This consisted of a 
wooden handle about 30 cm  long to which leather straps had been fastened. 
Since I had to answer the questions in the negative, they told me that there 
were other ways and means to force me to tell the truth. Then the 
interrogator left the room for a few minutes, and returned with a second 
interrogator. Since I had to reply to this man's questions in the negative 
also, because I did not know of any killing, he struck me with his fists and 
threatened to "hang" and "shoot" me. After I stuck to my guns, I was taken 
back to my quarters.
On 10 February 1946 I was transferred to the Dachau internment camp.

6. There I was interrogated two times At the interrogation on 21 June 1946 
they read statements to me that said that I had shot eight prisoners in the 
Mauthausen concentration camp. I was to sign this, but I vigorously refused 
because I never shot a prisoner After repeated requests to sign, I was 
struck with fists and kicked with feet. They put a paper in front of me to 
sign in which it said that l had never been beaten by American interrogators 
and soldiers. I refused, and only after repeated blows, with the threat that 
I would never leave the room alive until I had signed, and that they would 
know how to break me down my obstinacy, did I put my name to it. I had never 
had anything to do with the court in my life and I was afraid that they 
would make my life even more difficult.

7. In  January 1947 the so-called "line-ups" commenced  in Dachau Special 
Camp. I was confronted with prisoners three  times, yet not one accused me 
of the least thing. The man in charge of the line-up, Mr. ENTRESS, told the 
prisoners that I was said to have shot many and beaten them to death, where 
at only a burst of laugher arose. At that time I was 22 years old. When I 
was 19.5  I came to Mauthausen as 
dog-leader. A former prominent prisoner, Dr. SANNER, asserted he did not 
know me, but if a dog-leader had beaten prisoners to death or shot them that 
would certainly have become known in the camp. Many other former long-term 
prisoners  joined in this exonerating testimony

8. At mid-July 1947 I and my seven co-accused were presented for the first 
time to our official defence lawyer, Major William A.OATES. To his question 
whether I knew what I was accused of, and by whom, I could only reply that I 
was not conscious of any guilt and also had never counted on being brought  
to trial, since I had never mistreated or killed anyone.
Major OATES  told me that he too, knew nothing, that he could not get a 
glimpse of the incriminating papers of the prosecution, and therefore he 
would have to go by my statements, the general charge sheet, and the 
testimony of the prosecution witnesses at the trial.
Since only the prosecution had access to the records, my lawyer did not see 
them, and so naturally it was very difficult for him to prepare a defence. 
Major OATES promised to do everything he could. Also I gave him the names of 
the witnesses who were important for me, and who themselves were interned in 
Dacha.


Perats statement is cited on Pages 258 to 263 in Innocent at Dachau by 
Joseph Halow.]

INNOCENT AT DACHAU is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 241556, Newport Beach, CA 92659 
USA.
-- 

Jeff
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:17 PDT 1995
Article: 7498 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: GERMAN DEFENDENTS TORTURED AND "BEATEN SO BADLY"
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:06:32 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 45
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When [Douglas] Christie [defence counsel for Ernst Zundel] pressed Hilberk 
[jewish author] on whether portions of the Nuremberg transcript had been 
expunged, the latter admitted this was allowed, "if, at the request of the 
president of the tribunial, they were deemed to be entirely irrelevant."   
Christie then showed Hilberg the transcript for April 26, 1946, where 
Justice Robert H. Jackson asked that defendant Julius Streicher's testimony 
regarding his torture be expunged from the record, and his motion was 
granted. 

"In one excised section, Streicher described being thrown naked into a cell 
for four days, where "I was burned, I was thrown on the floor, and an iron 
chain was put upon me. I had to kiss the feet of negroes who spat into my 
face. Two colored men, and a white officer spit into my mouth, and when I 
didn't open it any more, they opened it with a wooden stick, and when I 
asked for water I was led to the latrine and I was ordered to drink from 
there." In another erased section, Streicher asked people in the courtroom 
not to laugh when he asked  for questions to be repeated. "I can't help it," 
he said, that, in the prison at Freising, I was beaten so badly "that I have 
lost 40 percent of my hearing capacity."  

The Nuremberg trials was described by a top american Judge as "an High grade 
Lynching party." 

That's what they were.



[Extracts from Page 59 From the "The Holocaust on Trial" ,The case of Ernst 
Zundel by Robert Lenski.]

The Holocaust on Trial is available from:-

The Institute of Historical Review PO Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659 USA.


Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:18 PDT 1995
Article: 7499 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: US "INVESTIGATORS" STARVE, BEAT UP, SAVAGELY KICK GERMANS
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 19:58:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <723482215wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 14, 1995 19.58.15
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         AMERICANS TORTURE GERMANS TO EXTORT "CONFESSIONS".

By Fred Redman

TODAY I am able to tell you the full story, revealed in Washington, of the 
American war trials scandal. It is an ugly story of barbarous tortures 
inflicted in the name of Allied justice. 
It is time the British people knew all the facts. Little has appeared in our 
press until today.
The charge is that American soldiers, building evidence against Germans 
accused of war crimes, have behaved with the same sadistic cruelty as the 
beasts who terrorised Europe when it was under Nazi domination.

The truth has come out through the persistence of an American lawyer and the 
frank horror of an American Judge who refuses to be muzzled.
Judge Edward Van Roden member of a US Army Commission of Inquiry tells how 
burning matches were forced under the fingernails of a prisoner by American 
investigators to extort a confession. For months, he says, men were kept in 
solitary confinement on near-starvation rations. 
And they were beaten up and savagely kicked until strong men were redeuced 
to broken wrecks ready to mumble any admission demanded by their 
prosecutors. 

The war department have shown the Judges personal report only to General 
Lucius Clay, their military commander in Germany. Washington suspects the 
reason was that it was too shocking for public disclosure. 

....Commission sent to Germany to investigate was was even more candid.
"All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair." he charged.
"this was standard operating procedure with our American investigators.
"They would put a black hood over the accused's head and then punch him in 
the face with brass knuckles."
US Army prosecution teams had he said had posed as priests to hear 
confessions and give absolution.

At mock trials men who refused to confess were confronted by a crucifix
and burning candles. Those sham courts, attended by men in US Army uniform, 
passed sham death sentences. Then the accused were told: "Sign this 
confession and we get you acquitted." 

[The Sunday Pictorial Jan 23rd 1949]

"All but two of the Germans in the 139 cases we investigated, had been 
kicked in the testicles beyond repair."

"The change [of public opinion] followed the notorious case of the American 
Dachau Tribunal. This tribunal which was abolished in December 1947,  
had tried 1,500 Germans and condemned 420 of them to death. In autumn of 
that year Dachau justicc became the subject of a commission of investigation 
under Judge Gordon Simpson of the Texas Supreme Court. The commission 
recommended that 29 men who were still under sentence ot death should be 
reprieved, and it declared that statements had be obtained both from 
defendents and witnesses by highly questionable means."

[The final solution [1968] by Reitlinger. page 548]

Question: 

The 'Americans' tortured defendents. Shouldn't it call into question the 
validity of confessions given in previous trials?

Question:

If the Americans tortured defendents on such a scale, what did the British, 
and the Communists do?

-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:19 PDT 1995
Article: 7500 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.rmii.com!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: RETYPED AND INSERTED IN THE TRANSCRIPT LATER
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 12:32:00 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <635349816wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Friday, Sep 15, 1995 12.32.00
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Himmlers speech on May 5 1944.

"Page 28 of the large-face typescript, containing this pregnant sentence-for 
only Hitler was enpowered to issue a "soldierly order" to Himmler -was 
manifestly retyped and inserted in the transcript at a later date, as the 
different indenting shows."

Himmler's speech of May 24 1944.

"One page later, Himmler's speech again hinted that jewish women and 
children were also being liquidated. (Note 4) The fact remains that in his 
personal meetings with Hitler, the Reichsfuhrer continued to talk only of 
the "expulsion" [Aussiedlung] of the jews, even as late as july 1944.

4 This page alone was also retyped and possibly inserted at a later date in 
the transcript.



Page 631 Hitlers War (1977) by David Irving.



Notice how transcripts of Himmlers speeches have been tampered with. 
Notice how Himmler actually only talks of "expulsion" of the jews. 

Question: Who was tampering with the transcripts? 

-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:20 PDT 1995
Article: 7504 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: WHO FOUND ANNE FRANK 'S DIARY?
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 18:46:43 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <255099321wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
References: <90257246wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <889775526wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <42thia$okd@access4.digex.net>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
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X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 14, 1995 18.46.43
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7

In article: <42thia$okd@access4.digex.net>  mstein@access4.digex.net 
(Michael P. Stein) writes:
> 
> In article <889775526wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>,
> Jeff   wrote:
> >In article: <90257246wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>  Jeff 
 
> >writes:
> >> Several different accounts of the finding of the Frank diary, might 
this 
> >> mean that the account of Miep Gies is actually untrue? 
> >> 
> >> Could it also mean that this confusion is the result of there being a 
> >> different origin of the diary?
> >
> >So which account is true?
> 
Rubbish about spoons etc deleted.

>     As Al Baron has already posted, the diary was subjected to extensive
> forensic testing, including handwriting, paper, glue, and ink.  To the
> best ability of forensic science to determine, it was written by Anne
> Frank during the war.  Faurisson (I think it was he) made much of marks in
> ballpoint pen (something not available to Anne Frank), but those were
> simply made later, in a clearly different hand, for the purpose of
> editing. 
>     Given the results of forensic testing, Mr. Roberts, I believe the
> burden is now on you to come up with something more substantial than your
> harping on inconsistencies of exactly who found the diary when.  You are
> using innuendo-laden rhetorical questions to avoid making a direct charge
> of lying against Miep Gies, which would plant you firmly into the ground 
> of libel.
> 
>     Furthermore, now that you have been made aware by direct email that
> there is forensic evidence of the authenticity of the diaries, if you
> continue to harp on this issue of who did or didn't first go up to the
> attic, and omit mention of this forensic evidence, I will be forced to
> conclude that you are being wilfully dishonest, concealing substantive
> information which contradicts your argument.  That is known as "lying by
> omission."  I regard it as no better than an active lie. 

At issue here is the origin of the diaries.

I've feel I made a valid point. There are 4 different accounts of the 
finding of the diary. Which one is true? 

Also, I recall an account which says that Anne Franks dad found the diary hidden in the rafters, after the war when he returned from being detained.
[any confirmation of this account, anybody?] 

So it could be 5.

I remember looking in the critical edition for the origin of the diary, but 
couldn't find any reference to who found it.

Perhaps, you can find a reference?


Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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From jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk Fri Sep 15 14:09:21 PDT 1995
Article: 7505 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!btnet!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!mail2news.demon.co.uk!stumpy.demon.co.uk
From: Jeff 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: THEY ARE BEING DRIVEN OFF TO WORK
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:47:15 GMT
Organization: None
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <446728563wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: jeff@stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-NNTP-Posting-Host: stumpy.demon.co.uk
X-Broken-Date: Thursday, Sep 14, 1995 20.47.15
X-Newsreader: Newswin Alpha 0.7



While Hitler drank his special tea and the others their wine or cognac, 
Henriette [von Schirach] exclaimed that she had just witnessed at Amsterdam 
the loading of jews into trucks for deportation. 
"It is horrifying to see these poor people being packed into open trucks.
Do you know about it? Do you permit it?"

Her outburst was greeted by a icy silence.

Hitler retorted, "They are being driven off to work, so you needn't pity 
them. Meantime our soldiers are fighting and dying on the battlefields!"   

[Hitlers War by David Irving 1977 p529]


QUESTION:


Why didn't Hitler retort "Our people are being killed, so we are gassing the 
jew bastards" or suchlike?      





-- 

Jeff
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            In the mountains of truth you never climb in vain.
                   Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)

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