The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/r/raven.greg/1996/raven.0296


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:32 PST 1996
Article: 22632 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron and the Babi-Yar Massacre (Re: NOT SAY ANYTHING TO T
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:17:25 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3113DEF5.6C76@kaiwan.com>
References: <123042208wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <822544663snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <822815917snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4emrcj$39l6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
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To: Sara aka Perrrfect 

Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> I think the *big* picture: that something horrible and terrible took place
> at Babi Yar is what matters -- whether there were two machine guns or two
> hundred is of no comfort to the dead.

One of the "big pictures" not often mentioned is that air photos taken of the Babi Yar area, taken 
before and after the alleged massacre, show no mass grave, nor any substantive changes to the surface 
vegetation, such as would have been the case had there been a grave that was subsequently dug up. With 
no graves and no scarring, the lack of agreement between supposed "eye witness" accounts takes on a 
different light.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:33 PST 1996
Article: 22634 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS TORTURED TO EXTORT CONFESSIONS
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:02:21 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com>
References: <3103B5B5.3E7F@niven.imsweb.net> <4e5t32$do1@gwdu19.gwdg.de>
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To: Ulrich Roessler 

Ulrich Roessler wrote:
> 
> Bud (budwrite@niven.imsweb.net) wrote:
> 
> : John Morris wrote:
> : Mr. Morris:  since you desire to uphold the Nuremberg trials as being
> : trustworthy, I would like your answer (along with referrable, reliable
> : resources for further investigation should you dispute this) to the
> : following I have read in several publications, both revisionist and in
> : the Christian News, which I consider to be a fairly (though not totally)
> : reliable source: At the time of the Nuremberg trials the then Chief
> : Justice of the US Supreme Court, Harlan Fiske Stone, described the
> : Nuremberg court as "a high grade lynching party for Germans."
> 
> : True or not true?  Did Chief Justice Fiske say or not say this?  If you
> : reject it, please give me your sources, reference dates, and where this
> : can be obtained.  Post your reply only to the newsgroup please.
> : Thank you.
> 
> As YOU are introducing this snippet of a quotation here, it's up to YOU
> to provide the reference, to check the context and to present the case,
> whatever point you want to make with that. However, a general judgement
> about the Nuremberg trials based on just a half sentence, a Chief Justice
> may have said somewhere, is impossible and ludicrous.

>From  the Journal of Historical Review, Volume 12, number 2 (Summer 1992), Mark Weber's article, "The 
Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust":

> America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief
> Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away
> conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the
> Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to
> common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a
> private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify
> some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On
> another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine
> of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our
> supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13) 

Note 13 reads:

> 13. Alpheus T. Mason, Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law (New York: Viking, 1956), p. 716.

Anyone wishing to see the entire article may do so at:

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Weber.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:33 PST 1996
Article: 22635 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES AT BIRKENAU LUDICROUS SAYS EXPERT
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:07:19 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3113DC97.7D70@kaiwan.com>
References: <188794846wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4dsldv$1spk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4e6org$3gp@Vir.com>
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To: Jean-Francois Beaulieu 

Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> >
> >ls. In both systems, injections of cold,
> > fresh air hasten the burning process by providing lots of oxygen. In
> 
>   How much air (or oxygen) for 1 corpse (per second)?
> 
>   How much for 3 corpses?

I would think that adding cold air, fresh or not, to a hot system would cool the system, 
requiring that time be spent regaining the original temperature. Does fire care whether it gets 
its oxygen from cold, "fresh" air, or from hot, stale air, as long as the oxygen content is the 
same?

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:34 PST 1996
Article: 22637 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES AT BIRKENAU LUDICROUS SAYS EXPERT
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:10:31 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3113DD57.27B2@kaiwan.com>
References: <4e9ps3$3ma@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ec45d$2ug@news.enter.net>
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To: "Yale F. Edeiken" 

Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >   ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) writes:
> >  Dear Sirs:
> >  It seems that Gord McFee can only answer the comments of experienced
> >  experts with insults and smears.   I would suggest that readers try a
> >  the IHR website at  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
> >
> >>>>
>         And to be fair I would suggest reading any of the court decisions which
> hold that, after considering the evidence, that the IHR is part of a networdk of
> anti-Semitic organizations.
> 
>         --YFE

I, myself would be interested in reading those court opinions. Please cite them. As someone who works at the IHR, 
I can assure you that it is neither anti-Semitic, nor part of a network, anti-Semitic or otherwise.

But even if it were anti-Semitic and networked, how would that change what it has to say? Either the IHR's 
position is accurate or it is not. Smears and name-calling neither add nor detract from the accuracy of a 
position.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:35 PST 1996
Article: 22640 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NOT GUILTY AT NUREMBERG
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:26:38 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <3113E11E.6614@kaiwan.com>
References: <450379854wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4eaf0d$1caq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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To: John Morris 

John Morris wrote:
> There are actually two soap stories, and Porter deliberately elides
> the stories into one. Hilberg is referring to a large number of soap
> rumors that were heard all over Europe, the most famous of which was
> the rumor that soap was mass-produced and marketed by RIF. Historians
> have long known, and published, that these rumors were untrue though
> this effort has apparently had little effect in curbing the popular
> mythology. On the other hand, the IMT heard evidence about experiments
> in soap-making undertaken at the Danzig Institute. As the IMT record
> makes clear no more than perhaps 25 kg of soap were manufactured
> there, and it is clear that the Danzig experiments were unsuccessful
> in finding a economical method for mass-producing soap from human fat.
> 
> Deniers have never refuted the statements of Mazur and Witton. Instead
> they prefer to talk about the soap experiments and the soap rumors as
> if they were the same thing. By eliding the stories and by providing
> as little detail as possible, deniers hope to mislead people into
> believing that much nonsense was entered into the IMT record and that
> the Nazis convicted there were thus unjustly convicted. They also hope
> that no one will check their references which time and again prove
> that they have attempted to falsify the historical record by quoting
> selectively and out of context.

This is sophistry. The "RIF soap rumor" is obviously untrue ... the initials don't even match! 
This should instruct us as to the mind-set of those who would repeat these rumors (such as 
Simon Wiesenthal, if I remember correctly). 

The other soap rumor has been dealt with by revisionists, including Mark Weber's excellent 
article on this matter. It can be found at:

http://www.kaiwan.com:80/~ihrgreg/pamphlets/soap.html

Robert Frenz has also done an excellent technical analysis of the Danzig soap stories. I hope 
to make this available on the Web within the next few weeks.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 06:32:36 PST 1996
Article: 22641 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A FRIENDLY ADDRESS TO ALL AMERICANS?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:32:41 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3113E289.5E0A@kaiwan.com>
References: <31096509.3ABD@kaiwan.com> <4edet1$jtp@news.enter.net>
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To: "Yale F. Edeiken" 

Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >   Greg Raven  writes:
> 
> >
> >  Let's just hope he doesn't point out how we kept those "higher standards
> >  of American justice" safe and unused in our moral closet during the
> >  entire administration of FDR, and for a couple years after WWII as well.
> >  No sense letting a bunch of high American justice get in the way when
> >  there is war-making and murdering to be done.
> >>>>
>         I don't know whether the news has reached the Institute for
> Ahistorical Research as yet but the participation of the United States was
> initiated when it was attacked by Japan and your hero, Adolf Hitler.  Of course,
> you have some facts to back up your black propaganda that parts of the
> Constitution were suspended or the courts closed when FDR was in power?  I
> thought not.
> 
>         --YFE


Some would say that taking part in the Lend-Lease Agreement was illegal. Some would say that sending the 
Flying Tigers to China was illegal. Some would say that sending armed merchant marine vessels into the path of 
the Japanese fleet in hopes of provoking an incident was illegal. Some would say that telling the American 
people that a fraudulent "secret map" had been discovered showing Germany's plans to invade the Americas was 
illegal, or at least immoral. Some would say that telling the American public that everything possible was 
being done to prevent war, while actually doing everything short of firing the first shot to provoke war, was 
a breach of moral conduct.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:31 PST 1996
Article: 22632 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Baron and the Babi-Yar Massacre (Re: NOT SAY ANYTHING TO T
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:17:25 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <3113DEF5.6C76@kaiwan.com>
References: <123042208wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <822544663snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <822815917snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>  <4emrcj$39l6@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> 
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To: Sara aka Perrrfect 

Sara aka Perrrfect wrote:
> I think the *big* picture: that something horrible and terrible took place
> at Babi Yar is what matters -- whether there were two machine guns or two
> hundred is of no comfort to the dead.

One of the "big pictures" not often mentioned is that air photos taken of the Babi Yar area, taken 
before and after the alleged massacre, show no mass grave, nor any substantive changes to the surface 
vegetation, such as would have been the case had there been a grave that was subsequently dug up. With 
no graves and no scarring, the lack of agreement between supposed "eye witness" accounts takes on a 
different light.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:32 PST 1996
Article: 22634 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS TORTURED TO EXTORT CONFESSIONS
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:02:21 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com>
References: <3103B5B5.3E7F@niven.imsweb.net> <4e5t32$do1@gwdu19.gwdg.de>
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To: Ulrich Roessler 

Ulrich Roessler wrote:
> 
> Bud (budwrite@niven.imsweb.net) wrote:
> 
> : John Morris wrote:
> : Mr. Morris:  since you desire to uphold the Nuremberg trials as being
> : trustworthy, I would like your answer (along with referrable, reliable
> : resources for further investigation should you dispute this) to the
> : following I have read in several publications, both revisionist and in
> : the Christian News, which I consider to be a fairly (though not totally)
> : reliable source: At the time of the Nuremberg trials the then Chief
> : Justice of the US Supreme Court, Harlan Fiske Stone, described the
> : Nuremberg court as "a high grade lynching party for Germans."
> 
> : True or not true?  Did Chief Justice Fiske say or not say this?  If you
> : reject it, please give me your sources, reference dates, and where this
> : can be obtained.  Post your reply only to the newsgroup please.
> : Thank you.
> 
> As YOU are introducing this snippet of a quotation here, it's up to YOU
> to provide the reference, to check the context and to present the case,
> whatever point you want to make with that. However, a general judgement
> about the Nuremberg trials based on just a half sentence, a Chief Justice
> may have said somewhere, is impossible and ludicrous.

>From  the Journal of Historical Review, Volume 12, number 2 (Summer 1992), Mark Weber's article, "The 
Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust":

> America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief
> Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away
> conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the
> Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to
> common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a
> private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify
> some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On
> another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine
> of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our
> supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13) 

Note 13 reads:

> 13. Alpheus T. Mason, Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law (New York: Viking, 1956), p. 716.

Anyone wishing to see the entire article may do so at:

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Weber.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:33 PST 1996
Article: 22635 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES AT BIRKENAU LUDICROUS SAYS EXPERT
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:07:19 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3113DC97.7D70@kaiwan.com>
References: <188794846wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4dsldv$1spk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4e6org$3gp@Vir.com>
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To: Jean-Francois Beaulieu 

Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
> 
> jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> >
> >ls. In both systems, injections of cold,
> > fresh air hasten the burning process by providing lots of oxygen. In
> 
>   How much air (or oxygen) for 1 corpse (per second)?
> 
>   How much for 3 corpses?

I would think that adding cold air, fresh or not, to a hot system would cool the system, 
requiring that time be spent regaining the original temperature. Does fire care whether it gets 
its oxygen from cold, "fresh" air, or from hot, stale air, as long as the oxygen content is the 
same?

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:34 PST 1996
Article: 22637 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES AT BIRKENAU LUDICROUS SAYS EXPERT
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:10:31 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <3113DD57.27B2@kaiwan.com>
References: <4e9ps3$3ma@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4ec45d$2ug@news.enter.net>
Reply-To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
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To: "Yale F. Edeiken" 

Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >   ceacaa@aol.com (Ceacaa) writes:
> >  Dear Sirs:
> >  It seems that Gord McFee can only answer the comments of experienced
> >  experts with insults and smears.   I would suggest that readers try a
> >  the IHR website at  http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg
> >
> >>>>
>         And to be fair I would suggest reading any of the court decisions which
> hold that, after considering the evidence, that the IHR is part of a networdk of
> anti-Semitic organizations.
> 
>         --YFE

I, myself would be interested in reading those court opinions. Please cite them. As someone who works at the IHR, 
I can assure you that it is neither anti-Semitic, nor part of a network, anti-Semitic or otherwise.

But even if it were anti-Semitic and networked, how would that change what it has to say? Either the IHR's 
position is accurate or it is not. Smears and name-calling neither add nor detract from the accuracy of a 
position.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:35 PST 1996
Article: 22640 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: NOT GUILTY AT NUREMBERG
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:26:38 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <3113E11E.6614@kaiwan.com>
References: <450379854wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4eaf0d$1caq@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca>
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To: John Morris 

John Morris wrote:
> There are actually two soap stories, and Porter deliberately elides
> the stories into one. Hilberg is referring to a large number of soap
> rumors that were heard all over Europe, the most famous of which was
> the rumor that soap was mass-produced and marketed by RIF. Historians
> have long known, and published, that these rumors were untrue though
> this effort has apparently had little effect in curbing the popular
> mythology. On the other hand, the IMT heard evidence about experiments
> in soap-making undertaken at the Danzig Institute. As the IMT record
> makes clear no more than perhaps 25 kg of soap were manufactured
> there, and it is clear that the Danzig experiments were unsuccessful
> in finding a economical method for mass-producing soap from human fat.
> 
> Deniers have never refuted the statements of Mazur and Witton. Instead
> they prefer to talk about the soap experiments and the soap rumors as
> if they were the same thing. By eliding the stories and by providing
> as little detail as possible, deniers hope to mislead people into
> believing that much nonsense was entered into the IMT record and that
> the Nazis convicted there were thus unjustly convicted. They also hope
> that no one will check their references which time and again prove
> that they have attempted to falsify the historical record by quoting
> selectively and out of context.

This is sophistry. The "RIF soap rumor" is obviously untrue ... the initials don't even match! 
This should instruct us as to the mind-set of those who would repeat these rumors (such as 
Simon Wiesenthal, if I remember correctly). 

The other soap rumor has been dealt with by revisionists, including Mark Weber's excellent 
article on this matter. It can be found at:

http://www.kaiwan.com:80/~ihrgreg/pamphlets/soap.html

Robert Frenz has also done an excellent technical analysis of the Danzig soap stories. I hope 
to make this available on the Web within the next few weeks.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sun Feb  4 07:00:36 PST 1996
Article: 22641 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A FRIENDLY ADDRESS TO ALL AMERICANS?
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:32:41 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <3113E289.5E0A@kaiwan.com>
References: <31096509.3ABD@kaiwan.com> <4edet1$jtp@news.enter.net>
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To: "Yale F. Edeiken" 

Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> 
> >   Greg Raven  writes:
> 
> >
> >  Let's just hope he doesn't point out how we kept those "higher standards
> >  of American justice" safe and unused in our moral closet during the
> >  entire administration of FDR, and for a couple years after WWII as well.
> >  No sense letting a bunch of high American justice get in the way when
> >  there is war-making and murdering to be done.
> >>>>
>         I don't know whether the news has reached the Institute for
> Ahistorical Research as yet but the participation of the United States was
> initiated when it was attacked by Japan and your hero, Adolf Hitler.  Of course,
> you have some facts to back up your black propaganda that parts of the
> Constitution were suspended or the courts closed when FDR was in power?  I
> thought not.
> 
>         --YFE


Some would say that taking part in the Lend-Lease Agreement was illegal. Some would say that sending the 
Flying Tigers to China was illegal. Some would say that sending armed merchant marine vessels into the path of 
the Japanese fleet in hopes of provoking an incident was illegal. Some would say that telling the American 
people that a fraudulent "secret map" had been discovered showing Germany's plans to invade the Americas was 
illegal, or at least immoral. Some would say that telling the American public that everything possible was 
being done to prevent war, while actually doing everything short of firing the first shot to provoke war, was 
a breach of moral conduct.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb  5 02:25:42 PST 1996
Article: 22742 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Weber: "IHR!" Raven: "Mine!"
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 21:54:36 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <3113D99C.20D3@kaiwan.com>
References: <4dmhgf$eor@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4e54av$mpk@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <24JAN199607234386@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
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To: Daniel Mittleman 

Daniel Mittleman wrote:
>     Western Historians have never believed there were 4,000,000
>     dead at Auschwitz.  The Polish government was the only organization
>     proclaiming this and were doing so for propganda purposes.  When the
>     regime changed in the late 1980s the Polish government came into line
>     with what the rest of the world already knew.

The claim that 4,000,000 were murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz was contained in a report by a Soviet 
commission, and was presented to the Nuremberg war crimes tribunal. I believe you can find that the Tribunal 
accepted this report as factual. I also believe that you will find other subsequent tribunals accepted the 
4,000,000 figure.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Tue Feb  6 16:51:04 PST 1996
Article: 22839 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES AT BIRKENAU LUDICROUS SAYS EXPERT
Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 18:30:48 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <31164CD8.1098@kaiwan.com>
References: <188794846wnr@stumpy.demon.co.uk> <4dsldv$1spk@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4e6org$3gp@Vir.com> <3113DC97.7D70@kaiwan.com> <199602060036.QAA21724@rbi.rbi.com>
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To: Mark Van Alstine 

Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> (A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
> alt.revisionism)
> 
> In article <3113DC97.7D70@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:
> 
> > Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
> > >
> > > jmorris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >ls. In both systems, injections of cold,
> > > > fresh air hasten the burning process by providing lots of oxygen. In
> > >
> > >   How much air (or oxygen) for 1 corpse (per second)?
> > >
> > >   How much for 3 corpses?
> >
> > I would think that adding cold air, fresh or not, to a hot system would cool
> > the system, requiring that time be spent regaining the original temperature.
> > Does fire care whether it gets its oxygen from cold, "fresh" air, or
> from hot,
> > stale air, as long as the oxygen content is the same?
> 
> Well, Mr. Raven, as everybody knows, cold air is denser and therefore has
> more oxygen, per volume, than hot air at the same pressure. (A phenomena
> that aeronautical and automotive engineers, as well as blast furnace- and
> crematoria designers, such as Topf and Sons, seemed to be aware of.) And
> seeing as the higher the given volume of oxygen the more coke one can
> combust per unit of time. Thus the hotter the furnace should get. Don't
> you think so too, Mr. Raven?

Speaking as a non-expert, no. In some systems, such as automobile engines, cold air is 
desireable because the combustion chamber is periodically sealed. In this situation, the 
denser the air, the better.

However, it seems intuitively true that in a free-flowing system such as a furnace, cold 
incoming air would either 1) reduce the temperature of the furnace, or 2) require more fuel 
to maintain furnace temperature.

Note that we must be discussing a furnace that can provide additional fuel to take 
advantage of conditions under which there is more oxygen. For example, in an oil-fired 
furnace where the amount of oil metered to the flame bar is fixed, additional oxygen will 
have no effect, assuming the air/fuel ratio is proper to begin with. In this instance, 
additional cold air would indeed reduce the temperature of the furnance.

In a coal- or wood-fired furnace (for example), additional oxygen leads the increased 
consumption of fuel.

--
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 05:12:02 PST 1996
Article: 23346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS TORTURED TO EXTORT CONFESSIONS
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:46:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <311DACCC.1B60@kaiwan.com>
References: <3103B5B5.3E7F@niven.imsweb.net> <4e5t32$do1@gwdu19.gwdg.de> <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com> <4f5jqb$2sue@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: gmcfee@ibm.net

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com said:
> 
> >From the Journal of Historical Review, Volume 12, number 2 (Summer 1992),
> >Mark Weber's article, "The Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust":
> 
> >> America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief
> >> Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away
> >> conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the
> >> Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to
> >> common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a
> >> private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify
> >> some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On
> >> another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine
> >> of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our
> >> supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13)
> 
> >Note 13 reads:
> 
> >> 13. Alpheus T. Mason, Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law (New York:
> Viking, 1956), p. 716.
> 
> >Anyone wishing to see the entire article may do so at:
> 
> >http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html
> 
> Stone did indeed say it, but not in the context that your correspondent
> might hope.  I think it might be wise to put Chief Justice Stone's remarks
> into context.  The context is this:
> 
> [begin quote]
> 
> United States Chief Justice Harlan Stone, who viewed the International
> Military Tribunal with great suspicion, refused to swear in Biddle and
> Parker, a refusal that did not add to the judges' morale or the tribunal's
> stature.  Stone resented and thought demeaning Jackson's role as prosecutor.
> It was his opinion that Jackson was employing the war crimes trial as a
> means of garnering prominence to solidify his position as heir apparent to
> the chief justiceship.  The tribunal, Stone huffed, was "Jackson's
> high-grade lynching party".
> 
> [end quote]
> 
> [Robert E. Conot, _Justice at Nuremberg_, Harper & Row, New York, 1983, page
> 63]

Thank you for verifying that I had quoted Stone accurately. The implication of your analysis, though, is that 
because Stone was miffed with Jackson, it was okay to call the Nuremberg Tribunal a "lynching party." In effect, 
you have produced no evidence that the Nuremberg trials were not a "lynching party," only that Stone might have 
had a secondary agenda in saying so.

Furthermore, I note that you do not deal with the portion of the quote after the first portion you attempt to 
explain away. 

Finally, Stone's utterance are far from all the damning material against the Nuremberg trials. For more details, 
visit:

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 05:12:04 PST 1996
Article: 23348 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom "Revisionist Scientist" Moran (Re: "..they lived right
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 09:21:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <311DB500.D93@kaiwan.com>
References: <4eqecm$csr@zippy.cais.net>   <4f58fa$158@zippy.cais.net>  <4fbhjg$21qo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In , dkeren@world.std.com said:
> 
> >
> >Moran also claimed that it would have been impossible to use
> >HCN gas in the Krema I gas chamber, because it would endanger the SS
> >living nearby, bla-bla.
> >
> >He forgot however, that even "revisionists" admit there are
> >cyanide traces on the walls of this gas chamber, proving
> >beyond doubt Zyklon-B was indeed used in it.
> >
> >This is but one proof Moran has no idea what he's talking
> >about. His knowledge of science is zero and his capacity
> >for rational analysis is smaller.

Whether or not Mr. Moran has knowledge of science and/or rational capacity, he could very 
well be correct on this point. A crematory might have been deloused a couple times a 
year, which would account for the HCN traces, without totally disrupting the operation of 
the crematory.

An ongoing, virtually around-the-clock extermination program using Zyklon B, however, is 
a different matter. Not only would this have left more HCN traces, but it would have 
severely disrupted the operation of the crematories, which were already running near to 
full capacity disposing of corpses of those inmates who died of "natural" causes.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 11:49:43 PST 1996
Article: 23346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS TORTURED TO EXTORT CONFESSIONS
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:46:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <311DACCC.1B60@kaiwan.com>
References: <3103B5B5.3E7F@niven.imsweb.net> <4e5t32$do1@gwdu19.gwdg.de> <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com> <4f5jqb$2sue@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: gmcfee@ibm.net

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com said:
> 
> >From the Journal of Historical Review, Volume 12, number 2 (Summer 1992),
> >Mark Weber's article, "The Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust":
> 
> >> America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief
> >> Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away
> >> conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the
> >> Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to
> >> common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a
> >> private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify
> >> some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On
> >> another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine
> >> of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our
> >> supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13)
> 
> >Note 13 reads:
> 
> >> 13. Alpheus T. Mason, Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law (New York:
> Viking, 1956), p. 716.
> 
> >Anyone wishing to see the entire article may do so at:
> 
> >http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html
> 
> Stone did indeed say it, but not in the context that your correspondent
> might hope.  I think it might be wise to put Chief Justice Stone's remarks
> into context.  The context is this:
> 
> [begin quote]
> 
> United States Chief Justice Harlan Stone, who viewed the International
> Military Tribunal with great suspicion, refused to swear in Biddle and
> Parker, a refusal that did not add to the judges' morale or the tribunal's
> stature.  Stone resented and thought demeaning Jackson's role as prosecutor.
> It was his opinion that Jackson was employing the war crimes trial as a
> means of garnering prominence to solidify his position as heir apparent to
> the chief justiceship.  The tribunal, Stone huffed, was "Jackson's
> high-grade lynching party".
> 
> [end quote]
> 
> [Robert E. Conot, _Justice at Nuremberg_, Harper & Row, New York, 1983, page
> 63]

Thank you for verifying that I had quoted Stone accurately. The implication of your analysis, though, is that 
because Stone was miffed with Jackson, it was okay to call the Nuremberg Tribunal a "lynching party." In effect, 
you have produced no evidence that the Nuremberg trials were not a "lynching party," only that Stone might have 
had a secondary agenda in saying so.

Furthermore, I note that you do not deal with the portion of the quote after the first portion you attempt to 
explain away. 

Finally, Stone's utterance are far from all the damning material against the Nuremberg trials. For more details, 
visit:

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 11:49:44 PST 1996
Article: 23348 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!csn!csus.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom "Revisionist Scientist" Moran (Re: "..they lived right
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 09:21:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <311DB500.D93@kaiwan.com>
References: <4eqecm$csr@zippy.cais.net>   <4f58fa$158@zippy.cais.net>  <4fbhjg$21qo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In , dkeren@world.std.com said:
> 
> >
> >Moran also claimed that it would have been impossible to use
> >HCN gas in the Krema I gas chamber, because it would endanger the SS
> >living nearby, bla-bla.
> >
> >He forgot however, that even "revisionists" admit there are
> >cyanide traces on the walls of this gas chamber, proving
> >beyond doubt Zyklon-B was indeed used in it.
> >
> >This is but one proof Moran has no idea what he's talking
> >about. His knowledge of science is zero and his capacity
> >for rational analysis is smaller.

Whether or not Mr. Moran has knowledge of science and/or rational capacity, he could very 
well be correct on this point. A crematory might have been deloused a couple times a 
year, which would account for the HCN traces, without totally disrupting the operation of 
the crematory.

An ongoing, virtually around-the-clock extermination program using Zyklon B, however, is 
a different matter. Not only would this have left more HCN traces, but it would have 
severely disrupted the operation of the crematories, which were already running near to 
full capacity disposing of corpses of those inmates who died of "natural" causes.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 17:22:32 PST 1996
Article: 23346 of alt.revisionism
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From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: GERMANS TORTURED TO EXTORT CONFESSIONS
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 08:46:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 64
Message-ID: <311DACCC.1B60@kaiwan.com>
References: <3103B5B5.3E7F@niven.imsweb.net> <4e5t32$do1@gwdu19.gwdg.de> <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com> <4f5jqb$2sue@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: gmcfee@ibm.net

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In <3113DB6D.5ED9@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com said:
> 
> >From the Journal of Historical Review, Volume 12, number 2 (Summer 1992),
> >Mark Weber's article, "The Nuremberg Trials and the Holocaust":
> 
> >> America's leading jurist was dismayed by the Nuremberg process. US Supreme Court Chief
> >> Justice Harlan Fiske Stone remarked with irritation: "[Chief US prosecutor] Jackson is away
> >> conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg. I don't mind what he does to the
> >> Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to
> >> common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas." In a
> >> private letter he wrote: "... I wonder how some of those who preside at the trials would justify
> >> some of the acts of their own governments if they were placed in the status of the accused." On
> >> another occasion Stone specifically wondered "whether, under this new [Nuremberg] doctrine
> >> of international law, if we had been defeated, the victors could plausibly assert that our
> >> supplying Britain with fifty destroyers [in 1940] was an act of aggression ..." (note 13)
> 
> >Note 13 reads:
> 
> >> 13. Alpheus T. Mason, Harlan Fiske Stone: Pillar of the Law (New York:
> Viking, 1956), p. 716.
> 
> >Anyone wishing to see the entire article may do so at:
> 
> >http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html
> 
> Stone did indeed say it, but not in the context that your correspondent
> might hope.  I think it might be wise to put Chief Justice Stone's remarks
> into context.  The context is this:
> 
> [begin quote]
> 
> United States Chief Justice Harlan Stone, who viewed the International
> Military Tribunal with great suspicion, refused to swear in Biddle and
> Parker, a refusal that did not add to the judges' morale or the tribunal's
> stature.  Stone resented and thought demeaning Jackson's role as prosecutor.
> It was his opinion that Jackson was employing the war crimes trial as a
> means of garnering prominence to solidify his position as heir apparent to
> the chief justiceship.  The tribunal, Stone huffed, was "Jackson's
> high-grade lynching party".
> 
> [end quote]
> 
> [Robert E. Conot, _Justice at Nuremberg_, Harper & Row, New York, 1983, page
> 63]

Thank you for verifying that I had quoted Stone accurately. The implication of your analysis, though, is that 
because Stone was miffed with Jackson, it was okay to call the Nuremberg Tribunal a "lynching party." In effect, 
you have produced no evidence that the Nuremberg trials were not a "lynching party," only that Stone might have 
had a secondary agenda in saying so.

Furthermore, I note that you do not deal with the portion of the quote after the first portion you attempt to 
explain away. 

Finally, Stone's utterance are far from all the damning material against the Nuremberg trials. For more details, 
visit:

http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v12p167_Webera.html

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Mon Feb 12 17:22:33 PST 1996
Article: 23348 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!chi-news.cic.net!nntp.coast.net!col.hp.com!csn!csus.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Tom "Revisionist Scientist" Moran (Re: "..they lived right
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 09:21:04 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <311DB500.D93@kaiwan.com>
References: <4eqecm$csr@zippy.cais.net>   <4f58fa$158@zippy.cais.net>  <4fbhjg$21qo@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
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To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In , dkeren@world.std.com said:
> 
> >
> >Moran also claimed that it would have been impossible to use
> >HCN gas in the Krema I gas chamber, because it would endanger the SS
> >living nearby, bla-bla.
> >
> >He forgot however, that even "revisionists" admit there are
> >cyanide traces on the walls of this gas chamber, proving
> >beyond doubt Zyklon-B was indeed used in it.
> >
> >This is but one proof Moran has no idea what he's talking
> >about. His knowledge of science is zero and his capacity
> >for rational analysis is smaller.

Whether or not Mr. Moran has knowledge of science and/or rational capacity, he could very 
well be correct on this point. A crematory might have been deloused a couple times a 
year, which would account for the HCN traces, without totally disrupting the operation of 
the crematory.

An ongoing, virtually around-the-clock extermination program using Zyklon B, however, is 
a different matter. Not only would this have left more HCN traces, but it would have 
severely disrupted the operation of the crematories, which were already running near to 
full capacity disposing of corpses of those inmates who died of "natural" causes.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Thu Feb 15 07:53:31 PST 1996
Article: 23669 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.reston.ans.net!nntp.crl.com!pacbell.com!tandem!UB.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: BRUCHFELD, I-HAVE-ENOUGH!
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 18:53:18 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <31222F9E.51DB@kaiwan.com>
References: <4f1jh1$blt@Vir.com> <4f58if$158@zippy.cais.net>  <4fbukn$ph5@Vir.com>  <4fmbcp$ev9@wi.combase.com> <4fp3dp$uii@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Reply-To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
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To: gmcfee@ibm.net

Gord McFee wrote:
> 
> In <4fmbcp$ev9@wi.combase.com>, mgiwer@combase.com said:
> 
> >>All the "technical problems associated with the gassings" that
> >>these "revisionist" kooks bring up, have solutions which are
> >>very simple and easy to implement. They really expect people
> >>to believe that Germany, a country that built jet planes,
> >>rockets, and submarines, could not solve these problems. This
> >>is simply amazing.
> 
> >       The issue of course is the lack of evidence such
> >solutions were implemented.  There is physical evidence of the existence
> >of the jet planes.  There is no physical evidence of the means of
> >ventilation that could have worked.
> 
> There is physical evidence of the gas chambers.  What do you suppose they
> were used for?

Could you be more specific as to exactly what physical evidence you are referring to in regard the 
alleged Nazi gas chambers? Your statement could be interpreted to mean that you know of the existence of 
a Nazi gas chamber.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sat Feb 17 09:35:05 PST 1996
Article: 23892 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!csus.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ?: Switching to PPP
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 07:39:20 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <31258628.5C9D@kaiwan.com>
References: <4g2pn8$sa2@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com>
Reply-To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
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To: Mike Zorn 

Mike Zorn wrote:
> 
>   I've been on a shell account for a couple of years.  I started there
> because at the time I had a nice '386 with a 2400 baud modem.  (Lynx
> runs great under those conditions.)
>   Recently, I've gotten a 28.8 modem, and am thinking of going to PPP.
> (I'm running Netscape, but can only see pages on my hard disk.)
> I was wondering about losing telnet, ftp, elm, nn, vi and the like
> (elm & nn are great).  Since I have a Web site, I need telnet to do
> all those strange chmods & other file maintenance, and ftp to move
> stuff back & forth.
>   Will I still get that kind of access if I drop shell and go to PPP?
> Using FreeAgent or even uqwk/yarn could probably replace elm, but what
> about access to my directories on Kaiwan?
> 
> Mike Zorn      ozma@kaiwan.com
>   http://www.kaiwan.com/~ozma/

I find it easier to do Web site maintenance without a shell account. 
With a shell account, you need to do all the chores you have mentioned 
above "manually." With a PPP account, you get "secure FTP transfer" 
capabilities, which means that in your graphical FTP program (I use 
Fetch on the Mac), when you create a folder (subdirectory) it 
automatically has the correct permissions set. Likewise when you upload 
a file.

The only drawback is that without a shell account there is no good way 
of determining how much of your allotted Web space you have used (there 
is no equivalent to the "quota" command, to the best of by knowledge).

One last thing: With Fetch, and perhaps with other graphical FTP 
clients as well, you can "drag-and-drop" whole collections of files from 
your hard drive to your Web site. It doesn't get much easier than that.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sat Feb 17 15:36:48 PST 1996
Article: 23913 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!csus.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: CODOH'S opposition to Censorship
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 08:00:46 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <31258B2E.32F6@kaiwan.com>
References: <4fle4u$9kp@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <4fmbds$il0@news.enter.net> <31210D09.7F92@kaiwan.com> 
Reply-To: ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
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To: Mark Van Alstine 

Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> 
> In article <31210D09.7F92@kaiwan.com>, ihrgreg@kaiwan.com wrote:
> 
> > Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
> >
> > > The attempts of Willis Carto and his network which included the
> > > IHR/Noontide Press/Liberty Lobby to stifle opposition to their
> > > positions by filing frivolous lawsuits and then engaging in
> > > onerous and extensive discovery is well-documented.  See Liberty
> > > Lobby v. Dow Jones (the citiation for which and quotations thereform
> > > were recently posted here).  When will these obvious efforts to stifle
> > > debate become part of your "thought crime" archives?
> > >
> > >         --YFE
> >
> > I saw some mention of this before, but I'm glad to see it again
> > so I can refute the implication.
> >
> > The implication is that because in 1988, Judge Robert Bork gave the
> > opinion that the Institute for Historical Review was part of Willis Carto's
> > anti-Semitic "network," that somehow it still is. This ignores the fact that
> > Willis Carto was never in legal control of the IHR, and that in 1993, those
> > legally in charge of the IHR severed any and all connections with Willis
> Carto
> > and his wife, Elisabeth.
> >
> > To use Judge Bork's decision out of context mischaracterizes the IHR.
> 
> Perhaps then, Mr. Raven, you could help clear up any issues surrounding of
> exactly who _is_ in control of the IHR? Who is legally in charge of the
> IHR, Mr. Raven? Are _you_ legally in charge of the IHR, Mr. Raven? If not,
> what is your affiliation with the IHR?
> 
> I do hope you can set the record straight in this matter, Mr Raven. One
> certainly would not want to use Judge Bork's decision out of context to
> mischaracterizes the IHR.

Rather than shift the discussion to another topic, I will point out that any 
connection, real or imagined, between Willis Carto (and his wife Elisabeth) and the IHR 
was severed in 1993. 

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg


From ihrgreg@kaiwan.com Sat Feb 17 19:29:22 PST 1996
Article: 23924 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!snunews.snu.ac.kr!usenet.kornet.nm.kr!news.kreonet.re.kr!news.dacom.co.kr!news.uoregon.edu!chi-news.cic.net!uwm.edu!msunews!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!ub!csn!csus.edu!newshub.csu.net!newsserver.sdsc.edu!acsc.com!kaiwan.kaiwan.com!usenet
From: Greg Raven 
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ALSTINE MAKES UNREFERENCED STATEMENTS
Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 07:49:18 +0000
Organization: Institute for Historical Review
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <3125887E.7544@kaiwan.com>
References: <4en60j$sha@wi.combase.com> <4epeb6$qra@nimitz.fibr.net> <4eslag$1ai@wi.combase.com> <4f9ckr$26v8@pulp.ucs.ualberta.ca> <4f9vkd$4p8@wi.combase.com> 
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To: Mark Van Alstine 

Mark Van Alstine wrote:
> > >>As for any serious attempt to destroy records, even in the "run
> > >>away" mode some one would certainly have thought to throw a match into
> > >>the records building. Maybe even a gallon of gasoline and a match.
> 
> Considering that that Krema V was blown-up only one day before Auscwhitz
> was liberated by the Russians, it seems like the Germans were a bit
> pressed for time. When you rush you get sloppy and forget things.... I
> mean, when a few German U-boat were forced to the surface and they
> abandoned ship, they _forgot_ to toss the Enigma cypher machine and
> codebooks overboard! Oops! So the SS didn't torch the records building.
> Oops!

It hardly matters. There are no records there that support claims of a Nazi gas chamber, or 
of homicidal gassings.

-- 
Greg Raven (ihrgreg@kaiwan.com)
PO Box 10545, Costa Mesa, CA 92627
http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg



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