The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/nyms/charles/1996/joebuck.1196


From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov  2 10:45:14 PST 1996
Article: 498368 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton overheard telling a Secret Service Agent ...
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 1996 09:40:59 GMT
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"Aurelius M."  wrote:

>CV (captain video) wrote:
>> 
>> mslu@ix.netcom.com(Lucile V. Wilson) wrote:
>> 
>> >In <17832C589S86.EDWARDS@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU> EDWARDS@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
>> >(George) writes:
>> >>
>> >>Thursday, Bill Clinton overheard was telling a Secret Service
>> >>Agent: "I want to serve the people of America. I want to strengthen
>> >>our democracy." He was answering the question, something like, Why do
>> >>you put up with all this crap? This is the kind of thing that never
>> >>seems to get reported.
>> 
>> >Bill Clintons mother said that when he was a very little child and
>> >realized some children didn't get ther proper education he told his
>> >mother that "I am going to help those little children to learn to read"
>> > He was about eight years old.
>> 
>> Yep, his first student was Vince Foster.......................................................................

>Then he helped Billy Dale!!!

  Years later, Honest Abe Bill Clinton would go on to try to teach a
young, minimum-wage-earning fellow-Arkansan named Paula Jones to . . .

er, sorry, I don't think he actually had teaching *READING* in mind
when he dropped his pants in front of her, essentially a stranger to
him, and sought to be serviced sexually.
  Now *THIS* is truly  "the kind of thing that never seems to get
reported" -- at least in the liberal, Clinton-friendly media.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov  8 11:39:28 PST 1996
Article: 503449 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Democrat's souls for sale $19.95!! But if you act today.......
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 03:55:21 GMT
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The Generalissimo  wrote:

>AMAZING BUT TRUE!!!!!!!

>FOR JUST $19.95 PER DAY OR ABOUT $140.00 PER WEEK YOU CAN OWN THE SOUL 
>OF A DEMOCRAT.  This is about the average total handout to handout 
>takers.  For this amazingly low price you will get:

>1) welfare mom that has too many kids to go to work.  You also get her 
>children indoctrinated into this lifestyle at no extra charge!!

>BUT WAIT, THERE's MORE!!!!!

>If you are one of the first to act we can get you all of the above, AND 
>A LIVE IN BOYFRIEND/DRUG USER/ABUSER TOO!!!  Thats right!  He will be 
>living off the payments as well because he doesn't want to work either.

>NOW FOR THE FIRST 50,000,000 voters we will also include 2 YES 2 
>truckloads of illegal immigrants for a lower wage than you can imagine!! 
> We will leave the borders open just to allow a CONSTANT influx on 
>illegals.  They make GREAT democrats!!  This offer also includes spouses 
>and children as well!!

>Now friends what more can I do to convince you to act today????

>I know.  I'll also throw in a really funny scare for our seniors.  I'll 
>call a 6.8% per year increase, a cut!!  That will really have them 
>hobbling down to the poll's.

>And just for you feminazis out there, I'll also throw in one 6 year old 
>potential rapist that dared to kiss a classmate on the cheek!!  That 
>little rapist!!

>Now folks I'm getting tired, what can I do to convince you to stock up 
>on democrat's souls today.  The price may go down, sure, but it may go 
>up if the slickster decides to hand more money to Mexico and indonesia.

>As my LAST inticement, I'll also throw in a immoral joke as president, 
>but one cute enough to let you ladies that never matured past high 
>school appreciate his "bad boy" charm.  I'll even make sure he is 
>immoral enough that you can actually fantisize about him slipping away 
>from the lesbian, coming to your house, and PUTTING THE PRESIDENTIAL 
>"WOOD" TO YOU PERSONALLY!!

>Please, act today.  (offer void where prohibited)
[snip]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-0

> 
>"If Bill is re - elected Al Gore and Myself will be turned loose to do 
>what 
>we really want to do"
> - Hillary, President de-facto.





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov  8 11:50:36 PST 1996
Article: 339096 of talk.politics.guns
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Democrat's souls for sale $19.95!! But if you act today.......
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 03:55:21 GMT
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The Generalissimo  wrote:

>AMAZING BUT TRUE!!!!!!!

>FOR JUST $19.95 PER DAY OR ABOUT $140.00 PER WEEK YOU CAN OWN THE SOUL 
>OF A DEMOCRAT.  This is about the average total handout to handout 
>takers.  For this amazingly low price you will get:

>1) welfare mom that has too many kids to go to work.  You also get her 
>children indoctrinated into this lifestyle at no extra charge!!

>BUT WAIT, THERE's MORE!!!!!

>If you are one of the first to act we can get you all of the above, AND 
>A LIVE IN BOYFRIEND/DRUG USER/ABUSER TOO!!!  Thats right!  He will be 
>living off the payments as well because he doesn't want to work either.

>NOW FOR THE FIRST 50,000,000 voters we will also include 2 YES 2 
>truckloads of illegal immigrants for a lower wage than you can imagine!! 
> We will leave the borders open just to allow a CONSTANT influx on 
>illegals.  They make GREAT democrats!!  This offer also includes spouses 
>and children as well!!

>Now friends what more can I do to convince you to act today????

>I know.  I'll also throw in a really funny scare for our seniors.  I'll 
>call a 6.8% per year increase, a cut!!  That will really have them 
>hobbling down to the poll's.

>And just for you feminazis out there, I'll also throw in one 6 year old 
>potential rapist that dared to kiss a classmate on the cheek!!  That 
>little rapist!!

>Now folks I'm getting tired, what can I do to convince you to stock up 
>on democrat's souls today.  The price may go down, sure, but it may go 
>up if the slickster decides to hand more money to Mexico and indonesia.

>As my LAST inticement, I'll also throw in a immoral joke as president, 
>but one cute enough to let you ladies that never matured past high 
>school appreciate his "bad boy" charm.  I'll even make sure he is 
>immoral enough that you can actually fantisize about him slipping away 
>from the lesbian, coming to your house, and PUTTING THE PRESIDENTIAL 
>"WOOD" TO YOU PERSONALLY!!

>Please, act today.  (offer void where prohibited)
[snip]

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-0

> 
>"If Bill is re - elected Al Gore and Myself will be turned loose to do 
>what 
>we really want to do"
> - Hillary, President de-facto.





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov  9 05:51:40 PST 1996
Article: 108016 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.veterans,alt.military.cadet
Subject: Salinger ignored Israel's attack on U.S. Navy's Liberty?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:50:55 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 27
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  It's all over the news: President Kennedy's press secretary from 30+
years ago, the expatriot Jewish-American Pierre Salinger -- someone
who, to my knowledge, NEVER EXPRESSED ANY PARTICULAR INTEREST IN
ISRAEL'S ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. LIBERTY AND ITS MURDER OF 34 AMERICAN
SAILORS -- is now saying he got a document "from a friend of a friend"
that makes him confident the U.S. Navy shot down a civilian aircraft
over Long Island, TWA Flight 800.
  Funny, but I don't recall Mr. Salingerstein getting AT ALL involved
in the U.S.S. Liberty case. 
  You DO remember the Liberty, don't you? That's the U.S. Navy ship
whose crew Israel suspected of spying on its military intelligence. 
  As a result, Israel did its damnedest to sink the vessel and kill
every American soul aboard.
  At times the Israeli fighter pilots were so close to the Liberty
that the survivors say they could see their faces in the cockpits of
the attackers' U.S.-made fighter planes. 
  (The brazenly- lying killers now claim they couldn't see the huge,
brand new U.S. flag that was flying from the Liberty's mast in the
half-hour they buzzed the ship before the attack began.)
  With the Grace of God, a lucky few survived Israel's wanton,
cold-blooded attack on the American ship.
  Check out some of the web sites -- in one case, created by an actual
survivor of the Liberty Holocaust himself -- which detail the gruesome
history of the Israeli attack as well as the outrageous U.S.-Israeli
cover-up that followed.
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov  9 05:51:43 PST 1996
Article: 108130 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,soc.veterans
Subject: Re: Salinger's TWA 800 document - anti-gov. disinformation??
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 04:31:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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"Keith littlejo@comm.net"  wrote:


>Subject: Salinger's TWA 800 document - anti-gov. disinformation??
>Distribution: world

>In message <3282D91C.ACE@ix.netcom.com> and article: 
>Subject: Re: Pierre Salinger says he has a document 
>proving the Navy accidentally shot down T-W-A
>Flight 800, wolfie  wrote:
>>Lou Nigro wrote:
>>> On the 10 pm news tonight -
>>> NEW INFO. ON TWA FLIGHT 800 CRASH
>>> (Associated Press - Paris) -- Former newsman Pierre
>>> Salinger says he has a document proving the Navy
>>> accidentally shot down T-W-A Flight 800.
>>> The former A-B-C News correspondent won't say
>>> who wrote the document -- but he says it came from
>>> someone he describes as "an important person
>>> linked to the government." Salinger says the
>>> document shows the downing happened as the
>>> Navy conducted missile tests off Long Island.
>>> 
>>> Spokesmen for the Navy and the F-B-I heatedly
>>> deny the story. And the F-B-I chief heading the
>>> crash investigation says Salinger should turn
>..............stuff snipped......
>> Lou makes for great conspiratorial fodder...and to top it
>>off, it's  legitimized by a big name (like Pierre) ... I want
>> to see the  document...
>>As far as I'm concerned, Pierre Salinger, at this point,
>>is nothing but another alt.disasters.aviation contributor
>>with another righteous theory and little to back it up.
>>Unlike most of us, however, he has a public
>>reputation to uphold...let's see what happens...
>>
>>If it turns out to be true, it could be the greatest White
>>House scandal of the century...

>What needs to be remembered is that the US government
>is not the only source of disinformation.  There are all sorts
>of groups and countries that would like to discredit, even
>damage the US Navy, the armed forces, and the United
>States by producing a fake document blaming the US Navy
>for the crash of TWA Flight 800.

>A list of possible suspects:
>1. Sadam of Iraq would certainly like to get even with the
>US Navy, what more perfect way then blow up a jet and
>have the Navy blamed for it.  Even if Iraq was not
>responsible for the crash, disinformation like this would
>be a means of getting back at the Navy for dropping
>missiles on Iraq.

>2. There are various militia groups who would dearly love
>to frame the US government for something like this and
>gain sympathizers and support.

>3. The are various radical pacifist groups, both US and foreign
>who use any excuse to get military funding cut and diverted
>to social spending.

>4. There are all sorts of people who hate Clinton.  They would
>delight in another scandal, especially one that has been predicted
>by many conspiracy buffs.

>5. Finally, as the Roswell controversy proves, there are all sorts
>of people who will fake things and create hoaxes just for their
>personal pleasure and, sometimes, profit.

>Thus, a person has to be skeptical of any claims as to whether
>it is genuine or fake until it has been examined by experts and
>substantiated or contradicted by physical evidence.   The main
>saving grace is the federal government is incrediably inept at
>keeping secrets, so if there is any truth to the missile theory,
>it will come out.

>However, if the Salinger document is fake and proved
>as such, then it still will have served its purpose at making
>people even more suspicious of the federal government
>and the military.  Personally, I can image Sadam Hussein,
>even granting that Iraq had nothing to with the crash,
>having a very good laugh at tweaking the nose of the US
>Navy.

>My only question is when the Republicans will ask for an
>Independant prosecutor to examine the letter.  In a way,
>that would be a very good idea given the level of paranoia
>and possible conflicts of interests if there is a coverup of
>any sort.

>Yours,
>Keith Littleton
>littlejo@comm.net
>New Orleans, LA

>"The truth is out there.  But so are lies." 
>   Dana Scully - The X-Files


Mr. Littleton,
  
  Thanks much for a most thoughtful post.
   I DEARLY HOPE THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE OUT THERE SUCH AS YOURSELF WHO,
RATHER THAN IMMEDIATELY JUMP ON THE "THE NAVY DID IT!" BANDWAGON, WILL
KEEP AN OPEN MIND REGARDING THIS TRAGIC AVIATION INCIDENT. 
  Face it: lots of liberals (maybe most) have "hidden agendas" when
they make such statements as former Kennedy aide Salinger has
regarding the TWA Flight 800 event.
  Just today, in fact, I mentioned to someone that, in considering the
Army rape case that's currently in the news -- it actually made the
FRONT PAGE of Southern California papers! -- one must keep in mind
that likely over 99% of media people are non-veterans; indeed, in many
cases, they're aging-hippie-baby-boomers who, due to deep
psychological issues, have  ALWAYS been hostile to the U.S. military.
  Such media people -- and remember, Mr. Salingerstein was JFK's press
secretary -- practically have an orgasm whenever they have an
opportunity to play up some unfortunate military situation (e.g.
Tailhook.)
  What's Mr. Salingerstein's motives in claiming the U.S. Navy shot
down a civilian plane? Who knows?



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 10 07:06:55 PST 1996
Article: 504143 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.society.conservatism,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.reform,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.women,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Democrat's souls for sale $19.95!! But if you act today.......
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 1996 03:56:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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salvucci@netaxs.com (Claudio R. Salvucci) wrote:

>In article <3280FFBA.3C97@vegas.infi.net>, The Generalissimo
> wrote:

>> AMAZING BUT TRUE!!!!!!!
>> 
>> FOR JUST $19.95 PER DAY OR ABOUT $140.00 PER WEEK YOU CAN OWN THE SOUL 
>> OF A DEMOCRAT.  This is about the average total handout to handout 
>> takers.  For this amazingly low price you will get:

>This is clearly a scam. You can't sell what doesn't exist.

  MOLTO BENE, PAISANO! :-)



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 10 12:13:32 PST 1996
Article: 108227 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.veterans,alt.military.cadet
Subject: Re: Salinger ignored Israel's attack on U.S. Navy's Liberty?
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 17:43:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 43
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ad058@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca (TIMOTHY GUEGUEN) wrote:

>joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>:   It's all over the news: President Kennedy's press secretary from 30+
>: years ago, the expatriot Jewish-American Pierre Salinger -- someone
>: who, to my knowledge, NEVER EXPRESSED ANY PARTICULAR INTEREST IN
>: ISRAEL'S ATTACK ON THE U.S.S. LIBERTY AND ITS MURDER OF 34 AMERICAN
>: SAILORS -- is now saying he got a document "from a friend of a friend"
>: that makes him confident the U.S. Navy shot down a civilian aircraft
>: over Long Island, TWA Flight 800.
>:   Funny, but I don't recall Mr. Salingerstein getting AT ALL involved
>: in the U.S.S. Liberty case. 
>:   You DO remember the Liberty, don't you? That's the U.S. Navy ship
>: whose crew Israel suspected of spying on its military intelligence. 
>:   As a result, Israel did its damnedest to sink the vessel and kill
>: every American soul aboard.
>:   At times the Israeli fighter pilots were so close to the Liberty
>: that the survivors say they could see their faces in the cockpits of
>: the attackers' U.S.-made fighter planes. 
>:   (The brazenly- lying killers now claim they couldn't see the huge,
>: brand new U.S. flag that was flying from the Liberty's mast in the
>: half-hour they buzzed the ship before the attack began.)
>:   With the Grace of God, a lucky few survived Israel's wanton,
>: cold-blooded attack on the American ship.
>:   Check out some of the web sites -- in one case, created by an actual
>: survivor of the Liberty Holocaust himself -- which detail the gruesome
>: history of the Israeli attack as well as the outrageous U.S.-Israeli
>: cover-up that followed.
>:   
>Wasn't much of a coverup.  The Liberty incident is well known, and claims 
>that the Israelis deliberately attacked it have been around for years.  

>tim gueguen ad058@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca

  Ok, "attempted" coverup. 
  Happy?
  It sure as heck WOULD have been SUCCESSFULLY covered-up had not a
few American sailors survived the maritime holocaust.
  Remember, they even awarded the ship's captain his medal of honor in
some Navy Yard, rather than in the White House, and by some
lower-level official, not the President, in order to keep the incident
out of the news.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 10 12:13:33 PST 1996
Article: 108331 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Salinger ignored Israel's attack on U.S. Navy's Liberty?
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 06:55:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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kamamer@zot.io.org (karl mamer) wrote:

>joebuck@ix.netcom.com writes:
>>   It's all over the news: President Kennedy's press secretary from 30+
>> years ago, the expatriot Jewish-American Pierre Salinger -- someone
>> who, to my knowledge, NEVER EXPRESSED ANY PARTICULAR INTEREST IN

>We've seen what happens when you leave things up "to your
>knowledge". You have not exactly shown a mastery of facts in
>other Jewish related matters.

  Frankly, I'm rather proud of my willingness to both
  a. admit my mistakes (as infrequent as they may be); and,
  b. retract claims for which I've been too lazy/uninterested to go to

      the library and spend the time necessary to document every 
      single one of my claims as demanded by closed-minded people such

      as "Kooky" Karl Mamer. 
  OTOH, I -- and I suspect many other observers -- tend to see the
refusal of certain people such as "Kooky" Karl to do likewise as a
sign of intellectual (or other) weakness.
  




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 10 12:13:34 PST 1996
Article: 108341 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism
Subject: FWD: Usenet Blackout for Elections
Date: Sat, 09 Nov 1996 18:00:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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mkennedy@iglou.com (Max Kennedy) wrote:

>Yep,   Just got the 2000+ posts missing from my site from this
>newsgroup, starting with posts 2-3 days BEFORE election day.

>Max Kennedy






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 11 07:08:23 PST 1996
Article: 108575 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,soc.conservatism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: FWD: Black Starr On White House Horizon
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 1996 03:53:55 GMT
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Forwarded msg follows:

softwar@us.net (Charles R. Smith) wrote:

>The White House obstructed an active criminal investigation by
>not turning over the Vince Foster suicide note to law
>enforcement after it was discovered.  In addition, the White
>House conspired to cover up Hillary Clinton's role in the
>suicide note delay.  Hillary Clinton told her advisors not to
>tell the President about the discovery of the Foster note.  The
>time between the discovery of the note, torn in 28 pieces, and
>when it was finally turned over to law enforcement was 30 hours.
>However, the lawyers who were present when Mrs. Clinton made her
>comments refused or could not remember the events when asked
>under oath.  It was only until documentation was forced from the
>grips of "Executive Privilege" that the people found out of her
>role in the delay.

>May 17, 1993 - In his testimony for the White House's own
>Management Review (conducted by Podesta and Stern) Chief of Staff
>Mack McClarty did not reveal his conversations with Mrs. Clinton
>nor did he provide a detailed memo he had just written, concerning
>the Travel Office which he cc'd to Mrs. Clinton.

>May 27, 1993 - Harry Thomason did not reveal any of the
>conversations with Mrs. Clinton concerning the Travel office.
>However, notes taken by Mr. Thomason personal attorney, detailed
>Mr. Thomason's meetings with Mrs. Clinton during the Clinton
>Inauguration.  Natalie Williams wrote:

>"Harry -> conversations with her in passing 
>       -> 1 or 2 in passing
>       -> he recalls being the office abt Little
>          Rock/Inaugrations.  Travel Office comes up
>       -> Status report.  Told her abt things he believed were
>          wrong.  They should be replaced disloyalty
>       -> - remembers telling DW should be replaced, and that FC
>          shares his view.  
>       -> could - did during the campaign
>       -> could do the job
>       ->-> probably told her about plans."

>June 2, 1993 - Vince Foster, in his interview with the White
>House Management Review, made no mention of his numerous
>conversations with Mrs. Clinton about the Travel Office.
>However, Foster, at about this time, started his detailed
>notebook on the Travel Office.  This notebook was kept from law
>enforcement investigators for years.  Notes in the 2,000 pages
>written by the now dead White House Counsel indicate that Mrs.
>Clinton urged Watkins to take action on the Travel Office.

>June 2, 1993 - David Watkins failed to mention meetings and
>memos he had with Mrs. Clinton during his interview with the
>White House Management Review, including the memo he had just
>written, noting that there "would be hell to pay" to Mrs.
>Clinton if he did not fire the Travel Office employees.

>July 26, 1993 - In an interview with FBI Agents, White House
>attorneys Benard Nussbaum, Bill Burton, and Steve Neuwirth
>failed to mention Mrs. Clinton was present and viewed the Foster
>suicide note.  In fact, Mrs. Clinton not only viewed the note
>but instructed all those present that the President should not
>be told of the discovery.

>March 21, 1994 - Mack McClarty, during his GAO interview, fails
>to mention the second, detailed meeting he had with Mrs. Clinton
>on May 16, 1993.  However, Mr. McClarty wrote about "HRC
>pressure" during the May 16, 1993 meeting in his May 25, 1993
>entry in his own Travel Office chronolgy documents.

>Many of the White House list of documents provided to Congress
>were false and misleading about Mrs. Clinton's role in the
>Travel Office affair and Vince Foster.  Here are just some examples:

>- Document title provided to Congress:
>- Memorandum analyszing Foster communications re: Travel Office

>- Acutal document title:
>- FOSTER CONVERSATIONS WITH HRC RE: TRAVEL OFFICE

>- Document title provided to Congress:
>- chronological analysis of Travel Office events

>- Acutal document title:
>- HRC TRAVEL OFFICE CHRONOLOGY

>- Document title provided to Congress:
>- Draft chart, analysis and comparison of various Travel Office
>  investigations. 

>- Acutal document title:
>- HRC ROLE

>House Report 104-849
>INVESTIGATION OF THE WHITE HOUSE TRAVEL OFFICE
>pages 162 THROUGH 165

>1 if by land, 2 if by sea.  Paul Revere - encryption 1775

>Charles R. Smith
>SOFTWAR
>http://www.us.net/softwar

>Pcyphered signature:
>6CAFCD273335690C9AFE50D217523D966BB530A913B0B01E7AA5D4E7BC47FC89
>C4A0D49434E498DED6BA1D78CAD75A792E3F6B7079890D4ACC5A7A462A956548
>A3F73696B9B649ABEEC9BC77D3D89DD75ADDB007B393DC9EC81D98DA05A935CA
>B5B5C86A35297919D759768381927E040D6DE417F1A2C815E0E4D28E795034BC
>3878CEF89F274F0AEFED16A499C6442FF6F716C93A3A728EA21BBF17F3A0F940
>2930072F63AD449126E36427C5287B811A39550A7A6A0C45E803D95689E32BC4
>596BF67D1C974E1B966F3465FE9EAF19B06020E824A1CEC21C62C9552160EED0
>30F046EDAF2E942FA7562E672E720C7C22361E6C1D28E28FA404371CA25E6CED






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 11 07:08:24 PST 1996
Article: 108604 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.california,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Shocking *new* Clinton sellout of US sovereignty raises fears
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:30:16 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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BajaRat@netcom.com (BajaRat) wrote:

>November 10, 1996 

>In an article in a San Diego Paper has some shocking news for
>Americans............

>"A Mexican consulate office is expected to open 
>at the San Ysidro port of entry in what is believed 
>to be the first time a foreign government has been 
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        
>given permanent access to an American border crossing
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>station . . . 
  ^^^^^
>The plan for the office, which could open by the end of the month, has
>some employees of the Immigration and Naturalization Service so
>unhappy and fearful that a "foreign agent" will be looking over their
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>shoulders that their labor union is asking for formal notice of a
  ^^^^^^^^
>change in working conditions. Customs inspectors 
>also have weighed in with concerns, with one 
>saying the proposal is a "slap in the face" to
                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>American law enforcement on the border."
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  First I read in my "mainstream" local newspaper that the Mexican
Army has been making regular, illegal forays across the border into
the United States of America -- but that U.S. officials are "afraid"
to say anything about it, lest the Mexican Government (to which
Clinton illegally handed over $50 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars) get
pissed off.
  Now I read part of an article from yet another "mainstream" paper
(The San Diego Union) that the Mexican Government -- yes, the SAME
violent, utterly corrupt Mexican Government which has recently used
its consulate in Los Angeles as a site to put on media circuses
bashing U.S. Border patrol agents -- has been allowed a permanent
presence IN THE VERY OFFICES of the sadly-overwhelmed, taxpayer-paid
United States Border Patrol.
  May God help us.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 11 10:11:02 PST 1996
Article: 48973 of alt.politics.white-power
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Aryan Dating Page Attracts Attention
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 19:39:50 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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pkasieck@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Philip Kasiecki) wrote:

>Aryan Dating Page (adp@geocities.com) wrote:
>:          The Aryan Dating Page(ADP), located on the Alphasite, has had
>: good response from the racialist community.

>    This is sad...

>: Or, browse through our on-line profiles of racialist Whites who want
>: friendship and love.

>    Anyone who puts an ad on this page is not looking for love, but for
>more hate in the world.  The least this ad could do is be honest...

  Look, what's the difference between an "Arayan Dating Service" and
long-established groups such as, say, "Jewish Singles"?
  I've never seen "Jewish Singles" or other, similar groups thusly
criticized/demonized -- nor should they be. If Jewish singles wish to
meet/date others of their own heritage, why not?
  In fact, I recall having read, in past years, a couple of glowing
newspaper articles about the traditional position of "matchmaker" (I
forget the Yiddish term for it) still active in the Jewish community,
in which Jewish singles are willing to pay hefty fees to the
"matchmakers" to introduce them solely to other specifically-Jewish
singles. 
  I don't have a problem with that. Do YOU?
  Moreover, it sometimes seems I can't open the classified advertising
sections of even "mainstream" liberal newspapers and magazines without
encountering a multiplicity of ads for homosexual, sado-masochistic,
trans-sexual and other such dating services.
  Are *those* matchmaking organizations ok, but the "Aryan Dating
Page" is "hateful"?
  Seems to me you're own liberal-pc hatefulness and intolerance is
showing, Kasiecki.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 13 06:59:06 PST 1996
Article: 35509 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.peeves,alt.celebrities,alt.showbiz.gossip,alt.fan.actors,alt.fan.barbra.streisand,alt.fan.pj-orourke,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,alt.fan.keegan
Subject: Re: Al Franken's ass gets kicked...
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 05:47:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Hambone wrote:

>> Al Franken, the guy who discovered how to make money by using the name
>> "Rush Limbaugh" in his book titles, got his liberal New York ass beat
>> cherry red tonight on CNN's "Talk Back Prime Time" hosted by Susan Rook.

Daevid MacKenzie  wrote:

>...he's from Minneapolis, not New York...too bad that brainstems like 
>you can't even start a hate-post without getting a fact wrong...

  Look, since New York-based "Saturday Night Live" is about the only
place I've ever seen the unfunny, rather untalented Franken perform --
and I hold *THOSE* failings (i.e. being unfunny and untalented)
against him much more than I do his naiive knee-jerk, cliche-driven
anti-conservatism -- and he apparently makes his home in New York, I
have to say that it's you, "Daevid," who have erred, not Hambone.
  BTW, Hambone, great post! Sounds like the short, ugly
visually-impaired Franken received his due from "Marty." :-)

>***********************************************************************
>** Daevid MacKenzie                                                  **                    **
>** The two most common elements in the Universe are hydrogen and     **
>** stupidity.---HARLAN ELLISON                                       **
>***********************************************************************

  HARLAN ELLISON?
  ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  Now I'm CONVINCED this "Daevid" is the "Internet Putz of the Day"
winner! 
  Wasn't Ellison the guy who made a COMPLETE ASS of himself in front
of Disney's top brass at a meeting a coupla years ago -- leading,
WITHIN HOURS, to his firing? (Please correct me if I'm mistaken.)






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 13 07:21:32 PST 1996
Article: 109204 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: FWD: FOLLOW THE (CHINESE) MONEY
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 17:09:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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"John Q. Public"  wrote:

>From: chauptma@netcom.com
>Subject: Lippo Group and the Money Trail
>Message-ID: 
>Sender: chauptma@netcom9.netcom.com
>Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
>Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 06:31:07 GMT
>Lines: 153

>FOLLOW THE MONEY:

>Participants and lurkers to this group know that the money trail, if
>it can be tracked, will lead to the reason and possibly the trigger
>man (or woman) behind Vincent Fosters death.  It will also show who
>backed Clinton’s meteoric rise to the presidency.  I believe the money
>trail is a series of parallel paths that spread out of Little Rock
>(aka: Rose Law Firm) like the web of a spider.

>Last week, Mr. Chertoff dropped one BIG clue.  I’m surprised
>(actually, nothing much surprises me anymore about what has come to be
>called ‘WHITEWATER) and intrigued at the obvious referral made to the
>Lippo Group and the Riady family in his questioning of poor Mr. (only
>trying to support my family) Hubell.  I also think that the future of
>Mr. Chertoff’s employment on the committee and the vain of further
>questions on the matter, will indicate Mr. D’Amato’s true intentions
>as head of the Senate Committee investigating Whitewater.

>I searched the literature on the Lippo Group and found many
>interesting ties to: Jackson Stevens, Bill Clinton, Rose Law Firm,
>Worthen Bank, Ron Brown’s China trip, loss of Arkansas public
>retirement funds, Swiss Bank Corporation, Hong Kong bank, the Bevill,
>Bresler & Schulman securities brokerage company, Entergy Corporation
>(parent of Arkansas Power and Light), continued human rights
>violations in the People’s Republic of China (all tentacles of the
>web).

>After finding all this information I recalled a poster on this group
>discussing Chertoff’s background in prosecuting RICO cases.  It is now
>clear why he was selected to be the Republican’s Chief Counsel...there
>is an organized conspiracy (probably criminal) that is so complex that
>it is difficult to understand.  The scope of the conspiracy adds to
>the difficulty in tying it all together.  

>CONCERNING THE LIPPO GROUP

>Money is Power and no one knew this better than The Lippo/Jackson
>Stephs partnership that controled Worthen Banking Corporation (before
>it went under).  Lippo Group is an Indonesian Holding company that has
>many interests in Asia, including communist China.  Riday heads the
>Lippo Group.  In one of its annual reports it claimed that “banking is
>not basically about money..it is a matter of buying and selling trust
>.it is what partners can offer in personal contacts and business
>connection.”  These connections lead right to Governor/President Bill
>Clinton.

>In 1977 Jackson Stephens brokered a deal to sell a bank owned by Bert
>Lance to Mochtar Riady, an Indonesian financier.  Riady was a member
>of Indonesia’s elite ethnic Chinese business circle.  When the deal
>fell through (the Lance bank was bought by the Saudi Ghaith Pharaon of
>the BCCI) Stephens arranged for Riday to buy into the Worthen Bank and
>Trust of Little Rock.  This happend in 1984.  Riady appointed his son
>James as president of the bank. The deal was brokered by C. Joseph
>Giroir II, the former chairman of the Rose Law Firm - the man who
>hired Hillary Rodham Clinton.  Mr. Giroir now
>runs the Arkansas International Development Corp. and continues to
>make major international deals for the Riadys and Indonesia multi
>billionaire Liem Sioe Liong.

>What happened next was a series of shady deals and investments and
>under-collateralized loans that put the solvency of the bank at risk.
>It also risked public Arkansas retirement funds.  Apparently, Worthen
>managed public pension funds and invested them in high-risk short-term
>loans called repos . . . to the tune of $10 to $20 million at a time.
>In other words, this bank had an arrangement with the state government
>of Bill Clinton to manage the investment of Arkansas state pension
>funds.  These risky investments were made through a New Jersy firm
>call Bevill, Bresler & Schulman.

>An elected Republican state audior had warned the state that these
>repos were risk, but her warnings went unheaded (Kind of sounds like
>the phrase “it’s Lasaters deal” only in this case it’s Stephens deal).
>During 1985, the bank handled $342 million of state pension money.
>Then it happened.  When Worthen placed its biggest repo ever, $52
>million, that’s the day that the investment firm (Bevill, Bresler &
>Schulman) went bust.  Had this loss of public funds become common
>public knowledge, it would have shaken Clintons governorship.

>Jack Stephens dashed back to Little Rock in the wee hours of the
>morning and wrote out a check for $32 million to cover part of the
>loss.  He got the bank’s investors to spring for the other $20 million
>and later recouped those losses from an insurance policy issued to
>cover bank officer misconduct.  New common stock was issued and
>Mochtar Riady purchased much of it.  This bail-out of the state funds
>may have saved Clinton’s career.  It also put him in a position of
>owing Stephens and Riady . . . BIG TIME.

>Stephens’ son Warren eventually took over the bank...the same bank
>that provide much support to Clinton’s 1990 gubernatorial campagain.
>The Riadys got out of the bank around 1989 or 1990 but have stayed in
>close contact  They even left the former president of the Lippo Bank
>in Los Angeles to work in the Clintion administration.  John Huang is
>deputy assistant secretary for international economic policy at the
>COMMERCE DEPARTMENT.   Remember the statement  “It is what partners
>can offer in personal contacts and business connections”?  Well, those
>contacts paid dividends for Stephens and Riady in 1994.  

>President Clinton said in support of Ron Brown that his leadership had
>resulted in “expanded opportunities for American business in this
>country and abroad?”  Well, it appears that some of those businesses
>have ties to Stephens and Riady.  An interoffice memo found in the
>files at Entergy Corporation mentions a meeting that an Entergy
>employee had with a Commerce Department deputy assistant Secretary in
>June of 1994.  This was 3 or 4 months before the trade mission to
>China actually occurred.  Entergy is the parent company of the
>Arkansas Power and Light Company of Little Rock, a staunch supporter
>of Bill Clinton.  It appears that the skids were greased.  And guess
>who the chief Washington lobbyist was for Entergy.  His name is Beryl
>Anthony.  You may know him better as the man who married the
>(sister of the late VINCENT FOSTER, Sheila Foster Anthony).

>It’s curious to note that then State Department spokesman Mike
>McCurry said on August 29, 1994 that the administation had witnessed
>“no significant improvements” in the human rights situation in China
>since President Clinton renewed MFN status.  He continued by saying
>that the rights abuses “represent a continuation of exactly those
>Chinese practices that we have objected to in the past.”  But was Mr.
>Clinton going to let these “abuses” stop a good deal for a few of the
>good ‘ol’ boys from Arkansas?  No way.  He simply separated the issues
>of MFN and rights abuses.

>So how did Entergy make out on the trade mission?  Well - on August
>30, 1994, Entergy announced a $1 billion venture with - you guessed it
>- Lippo Group - to manage and expand Lippo’s power plant in northern
>China.  On September 1, 1994, Entergy announced that it got a contract
>to help build two 660 megawatt generating stations in Guangzhou.  In
>November 1994, Entergy was on Brown’s flight to Indonesia.  They came
>home with more contracts to help build power plants in Indonesia.

>I hope you’ve been able to follow this tangled web and can see why I
>think the RICO statutes may come into play.  The banks were pilfered
>to get Clinton in the White House and now he is paying off his debts
>by making billion dollar deals.  He can do this because the government
>is full of his Arkansas partners in the ENTERPRISE.  

>Getting back to the Lippo Group -  They are partners in a joint
>venture with the SWISS BANK Corporation that makes up the largest
>capitalized securities brokerage in Indonisia.

>I wrote this article from information contained in the following
>publications:

>American Spectator
>Asiaweek
>Bureau of National Affairs, Inc.
>Energy
>PR Newswire
>South China Morning Post
>The Times-Picayune Publishing Co
>USA Today

>----------------------

>commercial purposes>


>While I was reading this ....

>        November 10 1996
>        Sunday Times          
>        by James Adams in Washington

>        Chinese trade coup staggers US spy chiefs 

>        PRESIDENT Bill Clinton may have been the victim of a
>        massive Chinese espionage operation intended to gather
>        top-secret information on American trade and economic
>        policy, according to intelligence officials and Republican
>        sources. 

>        The CIA and Congress have launched investigations into
>        what appears to have been a stunning intelligence coup
>        by China. In a four-year operation, Chinese agents were
>        able to take advantage of lax security procedures and a
>        pattern of corruption in the Clinton administration to get
>        routine access for their friends and associates to the
>        highest levels of the administration, including the Oval
>        Office. 

>        In return, China was able to lobby for the retention of
>        most favoured nation status, worth billions of dollars a
>        year to Peking, and have advanced knowledge of
>        America's negotiating positions in trade and economic
>        talks as well as access to trade deals subsidised by
>        America. "It's bad," said one intelligence source. "The
>        Chinese have clearly pulled off the kind of coup we
>        would have loved to have done." 

>        The operation will be the focus of an investigation by the
>        House oversight committee, expected when Congress
>        resumes in January. A dossier prepared for the
>        committee details "People's Republic of China
>        Intelligence Penetration" of the Clinton administration. 

>        The investigation is certain to destroy any vestige of
>        "bipartisan co-operation" that some Republicans and
>        Democrats hoped to see in Clinton's second term. Some
>        Republicans believe that the evidence is so damaging that
>        senior administration officials are certain to be indicted. 

>        Fears of a Chinese intelligence scam stem from an
>        investigation into the millions of dollars the Democrats
>        received in illegal campaign contributions over the past
>        four years. The Clinton administration gave high-level
>        access to donors to lobby officials and paid them off with
>        generous subsidised trade deals. 

>        Until now, this has been regarded as an example of
>        corruption in the Clinton administration. Now it is
>        suspected much more was involved and that the First
>        Bureau of the military intelligence department in China,
>        responsible for gathering intelligence abroad, was the big
>        winner. 

>        Investigators are focusing on the Chinese Resources
>        Bank, based in Hong Kong and officially the commercial
>        arm of China's ministry of foreign trade and economic
>        co-operation. However, according to western intelligence
>        sources, the bank is a front for Chinese intelligence. 

>        "A vice-president of the China Resources Holding
>        Company in Hong Kong is traditionally a military case
>        officer," said Nicholas Eftimiades, a China specialist with
>        the Defence Intelligence Agency. "This officer
>        coordinates the collection activities of other intelligence
>        personnel operating under [China Resources] cover." 

>        In what appears to have been a classic espionage
>        operation launched days after Clinton was elected in
>        November 1992, China Resources purchased at a
>        discount a 15% share in the Hong Kong Chinese Bank,
>        which is owned by the Lippo Group, the Indonesian
>        conglomerate with close ties to Clinton. 

>        Eight months later, after the Lippo Group had
>        demonstrated it had direct access to the Oval Office and
>        was able to influence American foreign policy, China   
>        Resources increased its shareholding in the bank to 50%.
>        This time, the Chinese paid a 50% premium and gave
>        Lippo a profit of about £12m. A key figure in the affair is
>        John Huang, a former Taiwanese air force officer. Born
>        in China, he joined the Hong Kong Chinese Bank and in
>        the mid-1980s moved to Little Rock, Arkansas, helping
>        to establish Lippo's operations in Arkansas and getting to
>        know Bill and Hillary Clinton well. 


>I noticed this....

>        In January 1994, on the personal instructions of Ron
>        Brown, the commerce secretary, Huang was given
>        top-secret security clearance without background checks
>        by the FBI or the state depart ment's Office of Security ­
>        a strict requirement for somebody born in a foreign
>        country. 

>        This gave him access to vital American intelligence. Six
>        months later, he was given a post in the commerce
>        department and went with Brown on a trade mission to
>        Peking. 



>but I remembered this earlier story, derived from a story that 
>appeared in the Washington Times:

>      The Times
>      November 9 1996
>      UNITED STATES


>          First Lady 'won government job' for fundraiser 

>                   FROM TOM RHODES IN WASHINGTON 

>        HILLARY CLINTON was at the centre of a tightening net 
>        of scandal at the White House last night even as she 
>        planned to launch a crusade of self-redemption. A report 
>        in Washington claimed America's First Lady had orchestrated 
>        an appointment at the Commerce Department for John Huang, 
>        the controversial figure subsequently forced to resign his 
>        post as a senior Democratic fundraiser. 

>        Mr Huang's role at the government department remains 
>        shrouded in mystery amid continuing Republican allegations 
>        that the former executive of the Indonesian Lippo Group was 
>        part of a concerted effort to influence trade policy in 
>        return for dubious contributions from Asia to the Clinton 
>        campaign. 

>        The White House said there was "no indication" that Mrs 
>        Clinton had any hand in the appointment of Mr Huang as 
>        deputy assistant secretary for international economic policy 
>        in 1994, but a department aide told The Washington Times 
>        that the banker was not hired by Ron Brown, the Commerce 
>        Secretary who died in a plane crash near the Croatian city of 
>        Dubrovnik in April. 

>        "He was not Ron Brown's guy, and his presence caused intense 
>        conflict," said the source. "Huang was carrying water for 
>        the White House."       

>        © Times Newspapers Ltd. 1996 

>                                 

>and so now I wonder what HRC's and BC's payoff was.

>Continuing with the 11/10 story,


>        "By the time Brown and Huang went to China in July
>         1994, there was $5.5 billion (£3.3 billion) in deals ready
>         to be signed," said a Republican investigator. "Never in
>         the history of America's trade relations with China has so
>         much been put together so fast." 

>         In the commerce department, Huang had access to much
>         of the intelligence delivered daily to the department by the
>         CIA that relates to economic and trade secrets gathered
>         around the world. He also received weekly intelligence
>         briefings from the CIA. 

>         Shortly before joining the administration, Huang was
>         given a $900,000 pay-off by the Lippo Group.
>         However, he continued to keep in close touch with
>         Mochtar Riady, his former boss at the Lippo Group. 

>         Huang was also busy as a fundraiser for the Democrats,
>         generating $5m in the past 12 months, including a
>         $450,000 donation from Lippo. Some of those donations
>         were illegal and in the past month the Democrats have
>         returned $500,000. 

>         In the past two years Huang has visited the White House
>         about 70 times and had several meetings with Clinton ­
>         unprecedented access for a relatively low-level official. 

>         Riady himself made six trips to Washington in Clinton's
>         first term and met the president several times on each
>         visit. In September 1995 Riady and Huang met Clinton
>         and pressed for the retention of China's most favoured
>         nation status. 

>         At the least, the result of this lobbying appears to have
>         been sweetheart deals for Lippo involving billions of
>         dollars, some of which were under written by the US
>         Export-Import Bank. At the same time, Clinton softened
>         his stance against Indonesia's labour practices that had
>         been attacked by Amnesty International. 

>         "What you seem to have here is a classic intelligence
>         operation that took advantage of every opportunity
>         presented," said one Republican source. "For a relatively
>         modest investment, a foreign government gains access to
>         the president, to lucrative trade deals and has a direct
>         influence on our foreign policy. Who could ask for
>         more?" 

>         The White House is worried. Officials privately are
>         pointing the finger at Brown, who was killed in an air
>         crash earlier this year. "It's clear that Brown was running
>         an illegal operation," said one. "But how do you vilify a
>         dead man who's a hero to the Democratic party?" 

>        © Times Newspapers Ltd. 1996 


>Shades of Vince Foster! 

>It's easy to blame the dead, when the alternative is to point the 
>finger of blame at the president and his wife, right?




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 14 08:42:08 PST 1996
Article: 505229 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,tx.politics,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: We are rid of "back room" Bob Dole in the U.S. Senate
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 02:41:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  Good riddance Bob Dole!
  Like Slick, he was always the type to sell his soul to the highest
bidder.
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 14 08:42:09 PST 1996
Article: 505362 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns,alt.politics,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics,talk.politics.drugs,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.theory,tx.politics,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Looking for a copy of John Wayne's America Why I Love Her
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 03:05:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 12
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References: <55ss2f$91a@crl7.crl.com> <3281FD0D.5AE0@tandem.com> <55ti0s$h5r@news.usit.net> <3282b5e2.5429281@news.inlink.com> <5605pk$e4t@news.usit.net> <328640ed.2629973@news.inlink.com> <3286C116.436B@pop.erols.com>
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  It sure woulda been nice if John "I'm Such a Patriot!" Wayne
actually had put on a REAL American soldier's uniform during World War
II, rather than getting a deferment so he could continue making movies
and dating starlets in 1940s Hollywood.
  Years later this hypocrite went on to make movies in which he played
a courageous Green Beret. 
  John Wayne = the worst hypocrisy. 
  He joins the ranks of Jack Kemp, Dick Cheney (later Sec of Defense!)
and Pat Buchanan -- all 1960s miltary draft avoiders -- in this
respect. 
  F#ck John wayne and his ilk.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 14 08:42:10 PST 1996
Article: 507100 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society
Subject: Re: Mad dog Dornan shrieks "FRAUD"
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:29:43 GMT
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rivrvu@ix.netcom.com (Harry Hope) wrote:

>>Considering voter registration forms in California come in Spanish,
>>and considering they can be sent in by mail, and considering the
>>number of illegal aliens, Dornan might have a legitimate complaint.
>>I'm sure none of you liberals will object to an investigation, based
>>on principle, of course.

>Ah yes. That familiar right-wing cry
>"investigation, investigation". Sure. Why not?
>Let's investigate everyone, everything. The Solar
>System, the milky way, the Universe. Let's all
>appoint each special prosecutors and investigate
>each other. AAAAAARGH.

  Are you that clueless that you can't even discern your very own
hypocrisy?
  Seems you liberals thought it was a mighty fine idea to
*investigate* the hell outta the GOP Nixon White House -- which I, a
right-winger, am glad was done: it SHOULD have been investigated --
and was -- scrutinized daily on nationwide tv during the Watergate
hearings.
  Or how about the whole Iran-Contra scandal? (I'm also glad that
shocking mess was investigated.)
  Really, before you engage in dumb, knee-jerk liberal hypocrisy,
THINK about how silly and partisan it makes you appear.








From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 15 07:17:53 PST 1996
Article: 109830 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: FWD: Wash Times article - WITNESS TAMPERING
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:09:29 GMT
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hughie2u@aol.com wrote:

>Fort Marcy Witness Sues On Foster story

>Knowlton says FBI altered his account
>By George Archibald
>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

>A witness in the fourth federal probe of White House Deputy Counsel
>Vincent Foster's July 1993 death yesterday announced a civil rights
>lawsuit against two FBl agents he accuses of conspiring to falsify his
>account.

>Patrick James Knowlton, a construction consultant who was at a suburban
>Virginia park about an hour before Mr. Foster's body was found there,
>claims he told FBI agents he saw a car with Arkansas license plates that
>did not fit the description of Mr. Foster's car.

>Mr. Knowlton says the FBI changed his account to fit the description of
>Mr. Foster's 1989 taupe-colored Honda, which was later found in the same
>parking space at Fort Marcy Park.

>Mr. Foster's death, ruled a suicide by state and federal authorities, has
>been the subject of intense controversy. Unanswered questions have fueled
>speculation of possible foul play or cover-up.

>Mr. Knowlton's allegations, first publicized by the London Sunday
>Telegraph in October 1995, have served to fuel further doubts about the
>official line on the Arkansas lawyer's death.

>In his $3.9 million lawsuit, Mr. Knowlton also named two Jordanian men and
>24 unidentified "John Does," who he says were part of "a conspiracy to
>harass intimidate, and psychologically attack" him before his federal
>grand jury appearance last year as a subpoenaed witness in the ongoing
>probe by independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr.

>John H. Clarke, Mr. Knowlton's attorney, told reporters yesterday that a
>number of "psycho-warfare experts" have identified the actions  of the 26
>men as an apparently orchestrated effort "to warn the witness not to tell
>the truth and to intimidate him."

>Mr. Knowlton told reporters yesterday he has no evidence of a link between
>the FBI agents he has sued and the 26 men he also sued for intimidation.

>Mr. Clarke said he believes Mr. Starr is conducting a criminal
>witness-tampering probe because of Mr. Knowlton's allegations. The
>attorney said the lawsuit was filed before results of Mr. Starr's probe
>are known in order to preserve Mr. Knowlton's options to obtain monetary
>damages in the case.

>"Mr. Knowlton is Mr. Starr's witness and it's up to him to investigate
>this crime," Mr. Clarke said outside the federal courthouse in Washington.
>"There is no evidence he is not investigating."

>A spokesman for Mr. Starr indicated yesterday that the independent counsel
>had no comment. The FBI referred inquiries to Mr. Starr's office.

>The lawsuit, filed Oct. 25, was sealed by U.S. District Chief Judge John
>Garrett Penn until after the Nov. 5 election. U.S. District Judge Norma
>Holloway Johnson, to whom the case was assigned, unsealed the lawsuit
>yesterday

>Mr. Knowlton, who lives about eight blocks from the White House, told
>reporters yesterday he stopped at Fort Marcy Park, near McLean, to urinate
>at about 4:30 p.m. on July 20, 1993, before Mr. Foster was found dead with
>a gunshot wound through the mouth.

>Even though he was there just five minutes, Mr. Knowlton said he
>distinctly remembered the car in the space where Mr. Foster's car was
>found because he parked his own car in the next space.

>(End)




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 15 07:17:55 PST 1996
Article: 109844 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.conspiracy,talk.environment,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.usa.republicans,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich
Subject: Re: Zaire: Ebola Threat to U.S. Troops ?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 00:08:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Phillip Coyle  wrote:

>Recall the Ebola outbreak of 1995 in Kikwit, Zaire. More than 100 deaths
>occurred from that outbreak. And now U.S. troops are being deployed to
>that region...
>It's unlikely that anything would come of this,

  BULL! 
  It's not only *LIKELY* something "would come out of this," it's
HIGHLY LIKELY.
  And that "something" ain't good.

> but Clinton has committed up to 5,000 U.S. troops to that region. 
>Look at how Gulf War Syndrome was mysteriously introduced to the United States.
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Could this be the means by which a virulent strain of Ebola is
>introduced to North America ?
  
  What do YOU think?




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 15 07:17:55 PST 1996
Article: 110044 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot
Subject: FWD: New Doubts Over Foster Death
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 22:11:19 GMT
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"alt.ww"  wrote:

>Lawsuit rekindles doubts over death of Clinton aide

>FROM TOM RHODES IN WASHINGTON
>The London Times  11/13/96

>THE most compelling mystery of the Clinton
>Administration returned to haunt the White House
>yesterday when a key witness in the death of Vincent
>Foster, the presidential aide and confidant, sued the
>American Government and two FBI agents he accused of
>harassment and falsifying his evidence.

>Patrick Knowlton, a construction consultant, claims the
>FBI had tampered with his testimony after he arrived at
>Fort Marcy Park outside Washington on July 20, 1993,
>more than an hour before the body of the deputy White
>House counsel was officially discovered in nearby
>bushes.

>The day after he was later subpoenaed to appear as a
>grand jury witness, Mr Knowlton said he became subject
>to sustained intimidation by a surveillance network of
>at least 25 men, whom he claims tried to prevent him
>from telling his story.

>Yesterday, outside the US district court in Washington,
>Mr Knowlton released details of a $1.5 million
>(£930,000) suit filed against the Government and the
>FBI which had been sealed until after the recent
>presidential election.

>"I want the truth behind why my reports were falsified
>by the FBI and why people were harassing me," he said.
>"I have no idea how Vince Foster's life ended. All I do
>know is that all the informa tion does not quite add
>up."Caught in traffic while returning home from a job
>in Maryland, Mr Knowlton had stopped at the park to
>relieve himself before driving home to Washington. He
>parked beside a brown Honda Accord with Arkansas plates
>and close to the only other car in the area, a
>blue-grey sedan.

>According to his testimony, a Middle Eastern or
>Hispanic looking man in the sedan gave Mr Knowlton a
>threatening look as if he were guarding the park
>entrance.

>When Mr Knowlton telephoned the park police on hearing
>of Foster's death the next day, they took only a brief
>statement and even spelt his name wrongly. Nine months
>later, he was interviewed by Lawrence Monroe, an FBI
>agent, whom he claims went to extraordinary lengths to
>persuade Mr Knowlton that the Honda he had seen was not
>merely blue, but a later model similar to that driven
>by Mr Foster.

>Mr Monroe and Russel Bransford, another federal agent,
>are named in the suit, which will be handed to Janet
>Reno, the Attorney-General, at the end of the week.

>Mr Knowlton claims a series of other alterations were
>made to his testimony and when finally he was called
>before the grand jury, a form of harassment employed by
>covert psychological operation units was used against
>him.

>"I feared for my life," he said. "These men followed me
>everywhere and gave me threatening stares wherever I
>walked."

>The case comes under the remit of Kenneth Starr, the
>independent counsel on Whitewater, who said this week
>that his investigation had been hampered by a lack of
>co-operation from people with relevant information.

>The death of Foster, one of the Clintons' closest
>friends from Arkansas, is still the most potent puzzle
>of this Administration. The White House consistently
>has said he committed suicide, but testimony from those
>such as Mr Knowlton has continued to leave a question
>mark hanging over the case.




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 15 07:17:56 PST 1996
Article: 110084 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: MAD DOG DORNAN A LOOOSER?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:06:37 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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fizztwo@aol.com wrote:

>Dornan was all over talk radio today . . . 

> He started blaming everyone for his defeat and would up ranting and raving
>about Jack Kemp getting $6 million a year by addressing satanic groups. 

What's this all about? Did Dornan actually make such a claim? 



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:51 PST 1996
Article: 110102 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy,soc.culture.intercultural
Subject: Helicopter downed in Florida race riots
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:59:36 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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11/14/96 report:

"MOBS ROAM CITY STREETS SECOND TIME"

Angry blacks go on the rampage after an officer 
is cleared in the killing of a St.Petersburg 'motorist'
who repeatedly attempted to run over the officer with
his car

  According to an Associated Press report, black mobs in Florida have
gone on another violent, bloody "rampage" after a police officer who
shot a black man in self-defense was cleared of wrongdoing by a grand
jury.
  The black "motorist,", who had a long record of violent crimes,
attempted to run over the policeman at least four times with the
stolen car he was driving before the officer finally killed him.
  "One policeman was shot in the leg, and a sheriff's helicopter was
forced to make an emergency landing after a bullet pierced the
windshield and wounded the copilot" during the race riots, according
to the AP report Thursday.
  "Hospital officials said others injured included a white man in his
20s or 30s, apparently the victim of a drive-by shooting . . . and a
white man in his 60s who was beaten up in a laundromat," the report
continues.
  "The left-rear window of Kim Friedman's car was shot out as she
drove through the area with her 11-year-old son and two others" during
the rioting, also.
  The police officer who shot the black "motorist" who attempted to
run him over four times with the stolen car he was driving has been
suspended for two months by the St. Petersburg police department.
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:53 PST 1996
Article: 110132 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: FWD: JEWISH LOBBY PASSES A LAW IN USA TO TARGET AMERICANS
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:54:05 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 118
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Forwarded msg:

sih@kaiwan009.kaiwan.com (Samir T.) wrote:

>JEWISH LOBBY PASSES A LAW IN USA TO TARGET ARAB AMERICANS.
>UNTIL WHEN THIS JEWISH LOBBY GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH 
>AMERICANS AROUND?  USA IS THE LAND OF FREEDOM. WE ALL 
>CAME HERE TO GET FREEDOM, NOT ISRAELI DICTATORSHIP.

>WE ESCAPED FROM OPRESSION TO SEEK FREEDOM HERE. WE ALL LOVE
>USA, BUT THE JEWISH LOBBY PAINTING A BAD PICTURE OF OUR LOVE
>BY ARM TWISTING THE LAW ENFORCERS TO EXCUTE ISRAELI LAWS
>ON THE LAND OF FREEDOM (USA).


>Date: Sun, 10 Nov 1996 11:24:26 -0800
>From: Michael Shehadeh 
>To: sbgluck@csulb.edu
>Subject: Urgent Appeal

>Hi Friends:
>Pls pay attention to this Appeal and respond. Emad needs your
>help.Spread the word. Lets work together.

>Urgent Appeal
>INS Launches First Test Of Counterterrorism Act,
>Attempts Politically-Moativated Deportation of Palestinian.

>U.S. law enforcement agencies are testing the new counterterrorism law
>by targeting Arabs in America. The Immigration and Naturalization
>Service (INS) and the Departement of Justice are attempting to deport
>Imad Hamad, a statles Palestinian born in Lebanon and residing in the
>United States since 1980. This is the unjust and unfair victimization of
>an individual and his family for politidcally motivated purposes.

>The INS openly admits that Mr. Hamad is to be deported because of his
>alleged political affiliation and activities. He is accused of "active
>participation and membership" in the Popular Front for the Liberation of
>Palestine (PFLP). The new law makes such affiliation illigal. However,
>Mr. Hamad's only "crime" is the excercise of his
>consitiutinally-protected rights to free expression and peacful
>political activity.

>Mr. Hamad has been harrassed by the INS for years over technical issues,
>such as overstay his visa. He received repeated threatening phone calls
>in which the caller mentioned details which could only have been
>available to an immigration officer. In addition his case file was
>"lost" for two years and was "miraculously" found on the day that his
>attorney filed a duplicate.

>The technical visa questions could be easily and routinely dealt with,
>were there no political motivation behind the INS attempt to deport him.
>He is married to a U.S. citizen and has two children who are citizens.

>We must stand for this. If the new INS policy is put into operation,
>many Arabs in America who have excercised their democratic rights to
>peacful, legal political activity could be at risk. Ironically, the
>political momentum behind the counterterrorism law came in the aftermath
>of the Oklahoma City bombing for which the media at first false accused
>Arabs and Muslims. Now the community is again being scapgoated.

>IMMEDIATE ACTION IS ESSENTIAL. MR. HAMAD IS SCHEDULED TO BE DEPORTED ON
>NOVEMEBER 18, 1996.

>Talkin Points:

>- The new counter-terrorism law is unconstitutional. The rights to
>political speech, activityu and affiliation are protected by the First
>Amendement. Federal courts have ruled (in the "LA-8" case) that U.S.
>residents are entitled to the same constitutional protections as
>citizens.

>- Mr. Hamad has engaged only in legal political activities, no different
>than those carried out every day by Americans of every ethnic
>background.

>- He should not be singled out and punished, nor should the Arab
>American community be targeted, by the very agencies which should
>guarantee their basic rights.

>- Deportation to Lebanon would impose undue hardship upon Mr. Hamad and
>his family. Under U.S. law, American citizens cannot legally travel to
>Lebanon.


>1. Call, write or send telegrams to:

>Ms. Janet Reno
>Attorney General
>Departement of Justice
>10th and Constitution Ave. NW
>Washington, DC 20503
>PH: (202)514-2001
>Fax: (202)514-4371

>Ms. Doris Messner
>Commissioner
>Immigration and Naturalization Service
>Washington, DC 20536
>PH: (202)514-1900
>Fax: (202)514-3296

>Ms. Carol Jennifer
>District Director
>Immigration and Naturalization Service
>Department of Justice
>333 Mt. Elliot St.
>Detroit, MI 48207





>----- End Included Message -----






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:53 PST 1996
Article: 110428 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!uunet!in2.uu.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: Chip Berlet downplays danger of raided NY communists?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 01:15:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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rewat@ix.netcom.com(Starla Kay Immak) wrote:

>In <56gqvs$9dt@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> joebuck@ix.netcom.com
>writes: 
>>
>>  Chip Berlet, the vocal, liberal-media-appointed critic of
>>right-wing, conservative and other non-politically-correct groups says
>>the well-armed, self-described communist revolutionary group that was
>>raided by the FBI in New York this week used the huge arsenal of
>>deadly weapons it stockpiled as mere "props."
>>  In an Associated Press report on the raid, Berlet says of the group,
>>The Provisional Party of Communists, "This was a parody of a
>>left-revolutionary group."
>>  Apparently, however, New York City's liberal mayor disagrees with
>>Berlet's assessment of the dangerousness of the left-wing group.     
>>  According to the AP report, "The Mayor said that the ragtag arsenal
>>was capable of mass destruction and that the group 'was arming itself
>>for something.' "
>>   Police rounded up at least 35 men and women Tuesday and seized a
>>huge arsenal of rifles, grenades, shotguns and other weapons in the
>>hideout of the same group Mr. Berlet describes as merely "a parody of
>>a left-wing revolutionary group."

>The militia extremist groups who tend to go the the far right are
>also armed to the teeth preparing for "something".  We don't see
>you conservative types bellowing about them.  In fact one of your 
>group members seemed to tacidly approve of the bombing of the OK
>government building.    

1. I figure you already realize this, but here goes anyway: the
*reason* you don't frequently we "conservative types bellowing about
them" [right-wing militia groups] is that the throroughly-liberal
media already does such a fine job of it. DUH!

2.  "Your group members"?  You don't even know me!
  Just as there are all sorts of people and gradations of belief and
ideology on the Left, so, too, are there on the Right.
  On the Left one can find anyone from the Clintons to Hitler and Pol
Pot; on the Right, anyone from Jewish William Safire and
African-American Thomas Sowell (personal faves both!) to David Duke.
  Thus, I feel you owe me an apology for referring to "your group
members."
   If you're gonna dishonestly lump others with Right-wing extremists,
expect them to lump you, in turn, with Left-wing extremists.
  [Nonetheless, I 'm not really expecting to receive the woman's
apology; I suspect Ms. Immak is -- as a number of more left-leaning ng
participants have shown themselves to be -- less-than-willing to
acknowledge that she may have erred. As I've noted before, I (and, I
think, many others) consider this to be a sign of intellectual -- or
other -- weakness.]



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:54 PST 1996
Article: 110483 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!access.hky.com!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism
Subject: ZAIRE: like Vietnam, only w/the ebola virus
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:17:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 3
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  Agent Orange ain't got nuthin' on the virus whose scientific name
actually is, I believe, "zaire ebola."



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:55 PST 1996
Article: 110614 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Slave-driving China awash in U.S. $$
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:40:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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>                        The Phyllis Schlafly Report

>    -- Vol. 30, No. 4 * Box 618, Alton, Illinois 62002 * November 1996 --

>                          China Doesn't Deserve MFN

>     It is ridiculous to allow Communist China to enjoy the same
>     trading privileges with U. S. markets that friendly countries
>     enjoy, a status called Most Favored Nation (MFN). China has stolen
>     billions (not just millions) of dollars worth of U.S. intellectual
>     property, thumbed its nose at signed trade agreements, and sold
>     our weapons technology to rogue dictators. China locks up citizens
>     who dare to speak out for freedom and forces women to undergo
>     late-term abortions. China continues to persecute Tibet, uses
>     slave labor to produce goods for export, and shows contempt toward
>     any self-government for Hong Kong. China even tried to threaten
>     Taiwan's democratic election process by firing rockets at the
>     island, and issued a veiled threat against Los Angeles.

>     China's expanding economy is financed by a $34 billion trade
>     surplus with the United States that has cost Americans 700,000
>     jobs. This trade surplus is partially based on stealing our
>     products (computer software, video films, musical recordings,
>     compact disks, other intellectual property, books, etc.) instead
>     of buying them. Pirated CDs and CD-ROMs are made in China in an
>     estimated 31 government-licensed plants. China itself can use only
>     about two percent of the CDs produced, so the rest go into the
>     international market and cheat U.S. companies out of sales. China
>     signed an agreement to stop this theft in February 1995, and
>     reaffirmed its promises in 1996, but little has changed. China
>     defiantly rejects the whole concept of copyrights and trademarks.

>     China has made so much money from U.S. trade that it is trying to
>     buy SS-18 strategic missiles, components and technology from
>     Russia or Ukraine. SS-18s are the biggies that can reach the
>     United States from a launch on the other side of the world.

  [As Lenin himself -- the father of Russian communism -- said, "The
capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will huang them." --
JB ;-) ]

>     One of the most outrageous Chinese "businesses" was selling
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     weapons at a 400 percent mark-up to U.S. big-city gangs that want
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     to wipe out their rivals. It was a sophisticated worldwide
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     operation that must have enjoyed the complicity of the Chinese
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     government . . . 
       ^^^^^^^^^^
>     Selling all kinds of weapons is big business for Communist China.
>     It has sold missiles to Iran and nuclear reactor technology and
>     materials to make enriched uranium to Pakistan.

>     The internationalist claque that continually calls for "free
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     trade" ignores the fact that China has slapped a 30 percent tariff
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     on goods it imports from the United States. In China, the ruling
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     clique threatens to "punish" U.S. companies if we dare to
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     criticize the $2 billion piracy of our intellectual property.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Americans are looking for leaders who understand that the
>     sovereignty issues are crucial to the continued freedom and
>     independence of the United States.

**************************************************************************
>                   Eagle Forum
>                   PO Box 618
>               Alton, Illinois, 62002
> Or you may call our toll-free number to order your copy by credit
> card:
>           1-888-500-5262     or     618-462-5415


>http://www.eagleforum.org



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From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:56 PST 1996
Article: 110617 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: FWD: Drunk DEA Agent Shoots Man Seven Times: Probation!
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 07:08:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 37
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[I was OUTRAGED to read the following in another ng. What kind of
society have we become when an attempted murderer is brazenly set free
like this?-- JB]

Bovine Remailer  wrote:

>DEA agent Pete Sinclair got so drunk on the night of his bachelor party
>that he had a blood-alcohol content of .23 percent. When a nightclub owner
>refused to admit Sinclair into a club unless he paid the $5 door charge,
>the drunk DEA agent shot the club owner seven times.

>He was convicted last week in Texas. His sentence: $10,000 fine & probation
>The sentence for possession of 4 oz. of pot in TX: $10,000 fine & 2 years

>How do you spell hypocrisy?  U - S - A

>***************************************************************************

>  Houston, Texas, USA - In July 1995 29-year-old DEA agent Pete Sinclair
>was out with friends and relatives for his bachelor party. The owner of the
>Ritz Plaza bar, Stavros Fotinopoulis, refused to admit Sinclair and his
>party into the club unless they agreed to pay a door charge of $5 each.
>With a blood-alcohol level at the time of .23 percent, Sinclair shot
>Fotinopoulis seven times during a fight outside the bar. Bar manager Lynn
>Turner then shot Sinclair twice.
>  Sinclair was charged with attempted murder, but a Harris County (Texas)
>state district jury last week convicted him of the lesser offense of
>aggravated assault.
>  Prosector Belinda Hill asked for a 12-year prison sentence. On Monday
>(11-11-96) jurors returned a sentence of 10 years probation and a $10,000
>fine.
>  The judge set formal sentencing for Thursday (11-14-96). It is possible
>that it will include a brief jail term.
>  Sinclair now works as a computer software supervisor.
>***************************************************************************




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:57 PST 1996
Article: 110635 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot
Subject: NWO-style 'free trade' = America-killer
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:09:21 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 146
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Lloyd Miller  wrote:
>---------- Forwarded message ----------

>                        The Phyllis Schlafly Report

>    -- Vol. 30, No. 4 * Box 618, Alton, Illinois 62002 * November 1996 --

>                      Some Goals of the New World Order

>     The phrase "New World Order" was not invented by President George
>     Bush, but it was popularized by him in 1990 in order to
>     resuscitate the then-moribund United Nations and make it a sponsor
>     of his Gulf War. Like Saddam Hussein, the New World Order concept
>     survived the Gulf War intact.

>     "New World Order" has become a handy label to describe the various
>     policies that challenge American sovereignty in the economic,
>     political, diplomatic, and even educational venues. It's the
>     underlying ideology behind trade policies that export American
>     jobs and encourage illegal political contributions from
>     foreigners. It's even the philosophy behind the trendy fads in
>     public schools, such as multiculturalism, school-to-work, and
>     global education.

>     The 1996 presidential campaign generated a lot of talk about
>     moving America into the 21st century. But neither candidate
>     addressed the fundamental issue: Will average Americans then enjoy
>     a higher or a lower standard of living? The crux of this issue is
>     whether U.S. policy should give preference to American workers and
>     their jobs over non-American workers and their jobs. This
>     jobs/trade issue is fundamental to the hope of our citizens to
>     live the American Dream.

>     The Republican Platform adopted in San Diego (which some leaders
>     boasted that they had not read, but which enunciated the views of
>     grassroots Republicans) 

[Pitifully, *one* of the GOP "leaders" who boasted that they hadn't
read the platform was none other than Bob Dole himself. -- JB]

>     endorses a policy of "free and fair
>     trade." The Platform's authors understood that the explosion in
>     our trade deficit to an all-time high, including the $34 billion
>     trade deficit with China alone, is "siphoning American wealth into
>     the hands of foreigners." The Platform criticizes Bill Clinton's
>     "hollow agreements" for subsidizing competition with U.S.
>     industries and financing socialism in less developed countries,
>     and accurately states that those agreements discriminate against
>     U.S. industries and agriculture.
       [deletia]

>     "Free trade" has become the mantra of a strange-bedfellow
>     coalition of old-right libertarians, Silicon Valley's nouveau
>     riche supporting Clinton, multinational corporations riding the
>     bulls in the stock market, politicians of both parties who receive
>     contributions from the above, and those who are making such big
>     money in faraway places like Indonesia and Korea that they can
>     write checks for $200,000 and $400,000 to the Democratic National
>     Committee.
       [deletia]

>     The benefits of what is called free trade are the direct result of
>     federal trade and tax laws that are skewed to benefit some
>     interests at the expense of others. These laws (mostly designed by
>     highly paid lobbyists) have silently restructured our economy
>     through trade treaties (falsely called "agreements" so they
>     wouldn't have to muster a two-thirds majority in the U.S. Senate),
>     high income and estate taxes on the middle class, and virtually
>     unrestricted immigration.

>     The result has been the destruction of a large part of our
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     manufacturing base and the massive loss of jobs that can support a
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     family. Whereas in 1955 one wage earner could support a family,
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     the average household now requires both spouses to be income
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     producers. This change in our social structure is as massive and
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     important as the much-commented-on giant increases in divorce and
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     illegitimacy rates.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     When Bill Clinton, Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich pushed NAFTA and
>     GATT through Congress, the advocates of those treaties promised
>     that Mexico would become a large and profitable market for U.S.
>     exports. It has proved just the reverse. Our $16 million
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     merchandise trade deficit with Mexico has hit an all-time high,
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     and Mexican imports are putting American tomato, avocado, and
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     citrus farmers out of business.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Free-trade lobbyists have kept taxes high on the average worker in
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     order to subsidize both imports of foreign products, which drive
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     American industries out of business, and imports of foreign
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     workers, who take jobs away from Americans. Entire industries have
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     been rigged to hire foreign workers (often disguised as
>     "temporary") on the false claim that there are no qualified
>     Americans. Since 1990, six million legal immigrants have been
>     brought into the U.S. work force, many in managerial and
>     professional jobs. U.S. corporations find this profitable because
>     they usually don't pay full-time wages and benefits. 
>     The most  promising job prospects for Americans in the year 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>      2000 are reported to be as cashiers, janitors, waiters, and prison guards.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  [This is LITERALLY true. -- JB]

>     Wal-Mart today employs about the same number of workers who held
>     good jobs with the big three automakers in 1975. But 30 percent of
>     Wal-Mart employees work only part time, and the majority of its
>     full-time workers earn only a dollar or two above the minimum
>     wage, with no health benefits or pensions.

>     Meanwhile, accountants and nurses are coming in from the
>     Philippines, civil engineers to design roads and bridges from
>     Iran, apparel industry workers from Cambodia and China, computer
>     programmers from India, and health-care aides from Russia.

***************************************************************************
>Crisis in the Classroom: Hidden Agendas and Grassroots
> Opposition is an informative television documentary that will help
> you understand the key education issues and why they are so
> important for our children and our nation. 58 min. $25.00
> For your copy of this Eagle Forum Special Television Report,
> simply enclose a gift of $25 or more and send it to:
>                   Eagle Forum
>                   PO Box 618
>               Alton, Illinois, 62002
> Or you may call our toll-free number to order your copy by credit
> card:
>           1-888-500-5262     or     618-462-5415

>http://www.eagleforum.org






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:58 PST 1996
Article: 110647 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.current-events.arkansas.mena,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.alan-keyes,alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.richard-nixon,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh.tv-show,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.journalism
Subject: An example of pro-Clinton media bias?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:08:38 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 25
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>Senator Hatch: Back Off Starr
>ASSOCIATED PRESS

  Notice how the Associated Press phrased it's headline:

                  " Senator Hatch: Back Off Starr"

  The first time I read it (separate from the Political Digest Lite's
inclusion of it) I figured the report was about Sen. Hatch telling
Starr himself to "back off," to cool his investigation of Whitewater.
  However, after reading just a few lines of the report, it became
obvious that Hatch was ACTUALLY urging the Clinton White House 
and other centers of Clinton loyalists to "back off" from their sleazy
attacks on Mr. Starr.
  What possible reason could the AP have had for using such a
misleading headline?
  IMO, it *could* be that the liberal news service hoped -- probably
correctly -- that most people would NOT read the actual article but
would instead just quickly take note of the HEADLINE -- thus getting
the mistaken impression that a prominent Republican Senator himself
(Hatch) has "warned" Starr to "back off" from his investigation of
various Clinton scandals.





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:47:59 PST 1996
Article: 110661 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Chip Berlet downplays danger of raided NY communists?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 05:08:23 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
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  Chip Berlet, the vocal, liberal-media-appointed critic of
right-wing, conservative and other non-politically-correct groups says
the well-armed, self-described communist revolutionary group that was
raided by the FBI in New York this week used the huge arsenal of
deadly weapons it stockpiled as mere "props."
  In an Associated Press report on the raid, Berlet says of the group,
The Provisional Party of Communists, "This was a parody of a
left-revolutionary group."
  Apparently, however, New York City's liberal mayor disagrees with
Berlet's assessment of the dangerousness of the left-wing group.     
  According to the AP report, "The Mayor said that the ragtag arsenal
was capable of mass destruction and that the group 'was arming itself
for something.' "
   Police rounded up at least 35 men and women Tuesday and seized a
huge arsenal of rifles, grenades, shotguns and other weapons in the
hideout of the same group Mr. Berlet describes as merely "a parody of
a left-wing revolutionary group."
   



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:00 PST 1996
Article: 110693 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.newt-gingrich
Subject: Clinton adviser: 'End U.S. nationhood'
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 07:30:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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>                        The Phyllis Schlafly Report

>    -- Vol. 30, No. 4 * Box 618, Alton, Illinois 62002 * November 1996 --

>                            An End to Nationhood?

>     The ambitious plans of New World Order advocates go far beyond
>     moving us into a global economy where American workers compete
>     with Asians willing to work for 25 or 50 cents an hour. A
>     political world order is also part of their agenda. 
>     The Republican Platform identified this goal by quoting 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     the words of Bill Clinton's Rhodes scholar buddy, Strobe 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Talbott, who wrote in Time Magazine that "nationhood 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     single global authority." (Time, July 20, 1992)
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    The sovereignty issues show how out of touch the Republican
                                                            ^^^^^^^^^^
>     leadership in Congress, led by Bob Dole and Newt Gingrich, are
>     with grassroots Republicans. Dole and Gingrich joined with Bill
>     Clinton to ratify GATT in a lame-duck session in December 1994, an
>     act which officially put the United States into the World Trade
>     Organization (WTO), a sort of United Nations of Trade. 

>     The same bipartisan triumvirate put through the scandalous 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Mexican Bailout, which was the costly consequence of the 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     1993 NAFTA mistake.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     But the Platform (written by grassroots Republicans and not read
                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     by Bob Dole) 

  [Dole publically admitted, about two days after the convention, that
he not only hadn't READ the Republican Platform but, moreover, he
wouldn't consider himself/his administration bound by it in any case.
-- JB]

>     promises that "Republicans will not subordinate
>     United States sovereignty to any international authority," and
>     specifically promises that "Republicans will not allow the World
>     Trade Organization to undermine United States sovereignty."

>     In its first case, the World Trade Organization ruled against the
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     United States. Surprise, surprise! At issue was the Clean Air
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Act's strict limits on pollutants in gasoline, which Venezuela and
>     Brazil were unable to meet. In the name of "free trade," they took
>     their complaint to the WTO and won.

>     The adverse WTO ruling was embarrassing to the Republican leaders
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     in Congress who had promised conservatives that such an attack on
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     our sovereign right to make our own laws would never happen. It
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     was even embarrassing to President Clinton and his U.S. Trade
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Representative, Mickey Kantor, who had promised the liberals that
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     the WTO would never diminish our environmental regulations.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     A global tax is another New World Order goal. U.N.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali wants to finance the
>     nearly bankrupt United Nations by imposing a global tax on foreign
>     exchange transactions. A tiny rate of 0.5 percent would produce an
>     incredible $1.5 trillion, while an even smaller rate of 0.05
>     percent would produce $150 billion. He is even toying with
>     imposing a surcharge of $1.50 on all international airline
>     tickets. One of the chief promoters of these far-out notions for
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     global taxes is the Clinton-appointed administrator of the U.N.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Development Program, James Gustave Speth.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     Some claim that Boutros-Ghali is floating the global tax in order
>     to shame the United States into paying the $1.4 billion the U.N.
>     claims we owe. Some are suggesting that, if we don't pay up, the
>     U.N. should cut off our U.N. voting rights, hit us with
>     late-payment charges, and impose a ban on hiring U.S. citizens for
>     U.N. jobs. But Americans don't think we are getting our money's
>     worth from our payments to the U.N. 
>     Our assessments are 25 percent of the regular U.N. budget and 31
>     percent of the peacekeeping costs.

>     The Republican Platform assures us that Republicans will not allow
>     any international organizations to "infringe upon either the
>     sovereignty of the United States or the earnings of the American
>     taxpayer." Will Republicans stick by their word?

  [No. -- JB]

>     The conviction of Army Specialist Michael New is another New World
>     Order item that just won't go away. New was court-martialed and
>     convicted for refusing to wear the U.N. uniform on a so-called
>     "peacekeeping" expedition to Macedonia. The other 550 servicemen
>     in his unit donned U.N. helmets, replaced their U.S. I.D. card
>     with a U.N. I.D. card, and dutifully marched off to Macedonia,
>     where Americans have no business being in the first place.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     When Specialist New's commander gave the U.N.-uniform order to the
>     550 troops on October 2, 1995 in Schweinfurt, Germany, the only
>     authority he cited consisted of "U.N. guidelines," "National
>     Command Authority," "U.N. Charter," "Domestic Law," "Commander in
>     Chief," and "U.N. Security Council Resolutions." New argued that
>     the order to alter his uniform was a violation of the Army's
>     regulation against wearing any unauthorized insignia, decoration,
>     medal or uniform. New said, "I am not a U.N. soldier. I am an
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     American soldier."
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  [Michael New: American hero. -- JB] 

>     We wonder why the Clinton Administration didn't simply reassign
>     New to some other duty, since the twice-decorated soldier has an
>     exemplary record and was willing to obey any order to go anywhere
>     in the world so long as he could wear a U.S. uniform. 
>     It seems clear that Clinton was determined to carry out this 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     first step in transforming American soldiers into U.N. soldiers and 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     didn't want to let one soldier stand in the way of taking America 
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>     into the New World Order.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
**********************************************************************
>                   Eagle Forum
>                   PO Box 618
>               Alton, Illinois, 62002
> Or you may call our toll-free number to order your copy by credit
> card:
>           1-888-500-5262     or     618-462-5415

>http://www.eagleforum.org







From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:01 PST 1996
Article: 110745 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism,alt.fan.newt-gingrich
Subject: Get this: Feline voted 3 times Nov. 5 with absentee ballots!
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 15:17:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  According to a column by The Boston Globe's Jeff Jacoby, a cat,
using absentee ballots, literally voted in three diferent states last
Election Day.
  The cat successfully voted via absentee ballot in Cleveland, Ohio;
Chicago, Illinois; and JFK birthplace Brookline, Massachusetts.
  Jacoby writes, "Under the National Voter Registration Act -- the
"motor-voter law" -- states are required to accept voter registrations
by mail. No longer can citizens be asked to make a trip to the town
hall or the county office. No longer do they have to provide proof of
residence or citizenship. In fact, they don't have to exist.
Motor-votor obliges election officials to add to the voter list any
name mailed in on a properly filled-out registration form. Anyone so
registered can then request an absentee ballot -- by mail, of course.
The system is not only open to manipulation, it invites it."
  Jacoby writes that "many voter-registration crusaders . . . want
state caseworkers aggressively registering welfare recipients and food
stamp applicants."
  "Had Jemima [the cat which voted three times this past Nov. 5]
wanted to, she could have regsitered and voted in all 50 states . . .
using 11 different names, she could have voted 11 absentee ballots in
Pennsylvania's 13th Congressional District -- and if she had voted
them all for Democrat Joe Hoeffel, who lost to incumbant Rep. John Fox
by 10 votes, she could have changed the outcome. Motor voter does more
than make such election fraisd possible. It makes it probable."
  Like I've always said, folks, most Democrats who vote via absentee
ballot are pussies. This proves it.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:02 PST 1996
Article: 110882 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism,soc.veterans,alt.military.cadet
Subject: It's not just a job ... it's The Hot Zone!
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:22:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 6
Message-ID: <56l4t9$el2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
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  Be all you can be! 
  Catch the eboleeeeeeee!

  President Clinton wrote, in 1969, "I loathe the military."
  Boy do I believe him now. :-(



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:03 PST 1996
Article: 110924 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.perot
Subject: About that NBC-"Seinfeld"-ridicules-Japanese-men show of Thurs, Nov 7.
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 23:46:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <56g83p$c7o@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
References: <5636lp$mh7@mark.ucdavis.edu>
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ez074520@rocky.ucdavis.edu (Tomoyuki Tanaka) wrote:

>Subject: NBC "Seinfeld" ridicules Japanese men, Thurs, Nov 7.

>    > Tomoyuki,
>    >      I just saw "Seinfeld" on NBC (9 PM EST).  It should
>    > be on at 9 your time too.  There are 3 Japanese tourists
>    > portrayed.  All small, barely understandable, bowing every
>    > 10 seconds, and at one point, reside with
                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    > Kramer and sleep in his dresser drawers.  
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
   
  See, this is yet another reason why I could NEVER be a genuine
anti-semite: the Jews are just too d#mn funny!
  IMO, their humor is one of their greatest gifts to the world.







From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:03 PST 1996
Article: 111008 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism,soc.veterans,alt.military.cadet
Subject: Re: It's not just a job ... it's The Hot Zone!
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:15:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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nedkelly@ais.net (Ned Kelly) wrote:

>Ford (gary.nt@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: On Sat, 16 Nov 1996 20:22:04 GMT, joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>: >  Be all you can be! 
>: >  Catch the eboleeeeeeee!

>Why do people join in the first place? I was in the Navy, and I tell you 
>what. You don't get any job skills in there that are useful on the 
>outside. 

  Silly, haven't you ever heard of DEFENDING THE COUNTRY?
  Duh!

>I know, you could always be a bodyguard for a gang leader or some lame 
>shit if you were in the Army or Marines.
>I was in the Navy, 
>while in there. Would you know if an Aussie movie studio looking for 
>someone for a scene in an engineroom with equipment breaking down during 
>driveabout? Let me know where they're doing the auditions for the part.
>I can sure stop the equipment in an emergency, and already have a 
>controllable Aussie accent.

  Would you like some soda bread with that whine?



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:04 PST 1996
Article: 111009 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.axionet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.conspiracy,alt.current-events.usa,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: AFRICAN-AMERICANS:CONSPIRICY WACKOS??
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:45:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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MSchaff  wrote:

>Since African-Americans feel the CIA is involved with their destruction,
>how are they different from the militias who distrust the government as
>well?

>Will they get the same treatment by the media or our President as was
>done to the militias??

  A very perceptive post!
  As to your question, it's not a question of "will they."
  They -- African-Americans -- already obviously HAVE received way,
way -- I mean WAAAAAAY -- better treatment in the liberal media than
the demonized militias EVER have.
  For example, even the liberal media's attempts to deny the accuracy
of the claims that the CIA "sold drugs in Black neighborhoods" have
been done with an air of seriousness and respect.
  It even solemnly reported last week that CIA Deutch himself would be
holding a Town Hall type meeting in South Central L.A. ["the" Black
area in L.A.] to talk about the charges of CIA drug trafficking.
  Now, compare this with how the militias have been so manifestly
scorned. The HATRED that the liberal media exudes when it reports on
the militias is truly phenomenal.   



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:05 PST 1996
Article: 111194 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: ZAIRE: like Vietnam, only w/the ebola virus
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 08:21:45 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 35
Message-ID: <56mf2o$pel@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
References: <56l4lj$el2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <56l8hc$2rl@lana.zippo.com>
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lass@suu.edu(M. Ciccone) wrote:

>In article <56l4lj$el2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, joebuck@ix.netcom.com says...
>>  Agent Orange ain't got nuthin' on the virus whose scientific name
>>actually is, I believe, "zaire ebola."

>This whole Zaire thing is much more sinister than people seem to realize.
>The real point of this expedition is to get particular(*) U.S. miltary 
>units out of the U.S., never to return. They will be deliberately
>exposed to Ebola virus, by Canadian NWO troops working under the direct
>command of Boutros Boutros Ghali.

>(*) The particular troops in question are those units that are least 
>likely to fire upon American citizens. These units were identified by
>that "sociological" survey we've heard so much about on this newsgroup.

>Once our fine, patriotic lads have been wiped out by Ebola, the NWO 
>storm troops will emerge from their hidden bases in our national parks
>and install the new multicultural socialist regime here in the States.

  You may think this is funny, but the presence of "hidden bases in
our national parks" has been proven. See recent issues of The
SPOTLIGHT for details. [To subscribe: 1-800- 522-6292]

>Then the Red List and Blue List roundups begin.

>P.S. Why are the Canadians helping the NWO do this to us? They have 
>been promised the northern tier of U.S. states. And those Mexican troop
>movements we've been hearing about lately? Those of you in Texas, New 
>Mexico, Arizona and California better brush up on your Spanish!

  If they haven't done so already -- what with literally thousands of
illegals enetering the U.S. nightly for years now -- it's probably a
bit late to start. 



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:06 PST 1996
Article: 111234 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,alt.journalism,alt.news-media,alt.activism,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: ---> Chief of Trolls <---
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 08:11:04 GMT
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[newsgroup list edited by additions and deletions]

99@spies.com (Extremely Right ) wrote:
[snip]
>...Expanded role for perception management. New information-based
>techniques may substantially increase the power of deception and image
>manipulation activities. Disinformation may make it difficult for the U.S.
>government to build political support for actions needed to ensure
>national security.

  Funny thing is, if anyone had suggested, during the Vietnam War, an
increased role and powers for the U.S. government to battle
"information warfare" at *that* time, the liberal media would have
IMMEDIATELY initiated a "The government's turning totalitarian!"
campaign to oppose this.
  The Dan Rathers, the Daniel Shores et al would likely have been --
and rightly so, IMO -- in the forefront of condemning the idea that
the Johnson/Nixon-led government should mess with THEIR (e.g. CBS's,
NBC's, ABC's, The Washington Post's) right to use television
technology to report the news (especially the Vietnam War and the
protests against it) as THEY saw fit.
  However, now that "the common man" -- not solely the networks nor
the "establishment" newspapers --  has access to the technology of
mass communication via the Internet (often resulting in the exposure
and dissemination of information which is unflattering to, say, the
1960s-radical-cum-President of today) the *same* liberal media jumps
on the Big Brother bandwagon and plays up the "need" to "counter" what
it ominously calls "information warfare."
  Talk about hypocrisy.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:07 PST 1996
Article: 111245 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.conspiracy
Subject: The Rosenbergs revisited?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:12:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <56mlif$mt4@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <56l37f$pfj@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
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>  [The first time I tried to make this post under the above subject
>line somehow the main body of it was (strangeley enough) deleted. -- JB]

>jakala@netcom.com (henry jakala) wrote:

>>By Bill Gertz 
>>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

>> The State Department's intelligence chief is under
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> investigation for questionable foreign contacts and
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> improperly seeking top-secret documents that link her
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> husband and a family friend to Hungary's spy service, The
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Washington Times has learned. 
>> Tobi T. Gati, assistant secretary of state for
>> intelligence and research, is being investigated by the
>> department's inspector general's office over charges of
>> several security-related abuses, according to Clinton
>> administration and congressional officials familiar with the
>> case . . . 

>> Among the matters under investigation are claims that
>> Mrs. Gati, a political appointee and friend of first lady
>> Hillary Rodham Clinton, improperly provided information
>                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> to Russia's foreign minister and received intelligence data
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> without proper clearances and before being confirmed by
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> the Senate . . . 
>  ^^^^^^^^^^
>> Mrs. Gati, 50, is a former vice president of the United
>> Nations Association in New York and has written about
>> the Soviet Union and Russia. Before her appointment in
>                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> the Clinton administration, she had no experience in
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> intelligence matters. She joined the National Security
>   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Council staff as a Russia expert in early 1993.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> The security violations could lead to the revocation of
>> Mrs. Gati's security clearance and her dismissal . . . 

>> Investigators want to know if Mrs. Gati misused her
>> position and violated security rules in getting two highly
>> classified documents from the National Security Agency at
>> a time when she was not cleared properly for intelligence
>> derived from communications intercepts, 
>>among the most closely guarded secrets in government.
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> One document linked a family friend of Mrs. Gati to
>> the Hungarian intelligence service, and a second document
>> suggested that her husband, then an official in the State
>> Department's policy planning office, was a
>                                                            ^^^^^
>> counterintelligence risk, said officials familiar with the
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> reports.

>> The investigators also are trying to determine if
>> officials of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the
>> State Department office Mrs. Gati heads, covered up
>> evidence of wrongdoing by her and others working there.
>> In addition, investigators are reviewing Mrs. Gati's
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> close ties to several Russian officials, including Andrei
>  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Kozyrev, who was foreign minister until January . . . 
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 19 07:48:08 PST 1996
Article: 111293 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: WHITEWATER: A "Scandal" Fabricated By Republicans
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 04:11:28 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <56r95s$4r@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <328E9DBA.D76@ix.netcom.com> <56mf6c$k33@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <328F8C47.15F7@ix.netcom.com>  
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bathroom@iglou1.iglou.com (Tim Brown) wrote:

>Whitewater is a scandal made up by congressional Naz--oops, Republicans
>determined to take political advantage of the President's troubles.  

  There you have it, folks: words of wisdom from another in-denial
Democrat. 
  Or, should I say, words of wisdom LITERALLY straight from the
toilet. (Check out this kook's Net name!) 
  :-0





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 06:47:17 PST 1996
Article: 111558 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: FWD: WW: HILLARY CLINTON AT THE CENTER OF AN INTERNATIONAL SPY SCANDAL
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 09:03:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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"John Q. Public"  wrote:

>not to be used for commercial purposes
>published in the 11/18 edition of the Washington Weekly
>posted with permission


>HILLARY CLINTON AT THE CENTER OF AN INTERNATIONAL SPYSCANDAL
>                         Editorial

>    At first, the conclusions pointed to by the evidence were too
>far-fetched  to believe. It simply could not be possible that the
>First Lady was at the center of an international spy scandal. But
>the   evidence   now   flowing  in  from  countless  sources  and
>investigations is no longer possible to dismiss.

>    Reporter Jim Norman was the first to make the still  unproven
>allegation  that Hillary Clinton and Vince Foster sold secrets to
>Israel and were the subject of a counterintelligence  probe.  The
>recently  declassified  NSA  documents  confirm  that the company
>Systematics Inc., for which Hillary Clinton was a lawyer, did  do
>contract  work  for  U.S.  spy  agencies  and  thus had access to
>sensitive information. Other NSA  documents  confirm  that  Vince
>Foster  worked  with the NSA on computer espionage issues and was
>in a position where he had equal access to sensitive information.

>    Then came the revelation that possible  Chinese  Intelligence
>operative  and  Lippo  executive John Huang was placed by Hillary
>Clinton in Ron Brown's "Government for Sale" Commerce  Department
>and was given a top security clearance without a background check
>that could have revealed his intelligence affiliations.  The  CIA
>and  Congress are now reportedly engaged in a counterintelligence
>probe.

>    But last week removed the final vestiges of  disbelief.  Both
>the  Washington  Times  and the London Times now report that Tobi
>Gati, a close friend  of  Hillary  Clinton,  was  placed  in  the
>sensitive   position   of   Assistant   Secretary  of  State  for
>Intelligence and is the subject of  a  counterintelligence  probe
>linking  her  to the Hungarian spy service as well as Russian top
>officials. In addition, it appears Mrs  Gati  illegally  obtained
>two  highly  classified  documents  from  the  National  Security
>Agency.

>    What are we to make of this? What, exactly, is  the  role  of
>Hillary  Clinton?   Is  Hillary  Clinton  facing  indictment as a
>foreign spy? Is that the reason why we  are  now  seeing  Clinton
>administration  officials  running  for  cover  in  unprecedented
>numbers?  Was the national security injunction after the death of
>Vince  Foster designed to give U.S. intelligence agencies time to
>probe the full extent of foreign intelligence penetration of  the
>Clinton  White  House? Or are we going to see another cover-up, a
>graceful exit to avoid  rattling  the  markets  and  fueling  the
>outrage of the populace?





>  Published in the Nov. 18, 1996 Issue of The Washington Weekly
>Copyright (c) 1996 The Washington Weekly (http://www.federal.com)




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 06:47:18 PST 1996
Article: 111738 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.journalism,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Did BATF brazenly LIE about this U.S. citizen?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 05:49:10 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  See http://www.texemarrs.com for the report of a New York man who,
it seems, was falsely accused of drug-dealing and of having a "huge
arsenal" of weapons in his home due to his politically-incorrect
views.
  According to the web page, the NYC newspapers RETRACTED their
drug-dealing and "huge-arsenal" lies the day after they were first
reported -- in the back pages of their publications, after the citizen
had been so outrageously smeared.
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:39 PST 1996
Article: 508028 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society
Subject: Re: Mad dog Dornan shrieks "FRAUD"
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 18:23:12 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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clw1@ix.netcom.com (C. L. Williams) wrote:

>Considering voter registration forms in California come in Spanish,
>and considering they can be sent in by mail, and considering the
>number of illegal aliens, Dornan might have a legitimate complaint.
>I'm sure none of you liberals will object to an investigation, based
>on principle, of course.

  Along these lines: didja read about that 14-year-old who, after
receiving voter registration materials at a rock concert, filled 'em
out and gave it to the person manning the table. No ID required,
NOTHING but his "affirmation" that he was a US citizen 18 years old or
older.
  He actually DID vote Election Day!
  Here's the kicker: the youngster voted, he says, the straight GOP
ticket last Nov. 5th, btw! 






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:41 PST 1996
Article: 508434 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Right-wing claptrap - The "liberal media"
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 05:05:01 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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rivrvu@ix.netcom.com (Harry Hope) wrote:

>Think about this the next time you hear some
>right-wing ass use the term "liberal media".

  These liberals make me laugh, with their unselfconscious idiocy! :-0
  The fact is, the liberal media basically said: "Look, Dole, you
don't bring up the allegations of chronic philandering, pot smoking,
pants-dropping, cocaine-snorting, etc. on the part of Clinton and *WE*
won't bring up the handful (if that many) of extra-marital affairs
you're said to have had."
  OF COURSE, this "deal" benefitted Clinton hugely more than Dole.
  One other thing: can someone repost that survey which found that
well over 90% of working in the media say they voted for Clinton in
'92?
  The liberals are SO in denial, it's actually amusing! :-)
   





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:41 PST 1996
Article: 508561 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.activism,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Right-wing claptrap - The "liberal media"
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 05:06:46 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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rcs8@psu.edu (Roger C. Shouse) wrote:

>In article <56hv16$3s0@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> rivrvu@ix.netcom.com (Harry Hope) writes:
>>From: rivrvu@ix.netcom.com (Harry Hope)
>>Subject: Right-wing claptrap - The "liberal media"
>>Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 14:33:40 GMT

>>Think about this the next time you hear some
>>right-wing ass use the term "liberal media".

>>From The Hearst News Service, Marianne Means,
>>11/15/96:

>Sure.  I'll think about the left-wing ass who doesn't understand that Clinton 
>is not being blasted solely on the basis of a one-time affair; who doesn't 
>understand that one woman's accusation doesn't make a story true; who doesn't 
>understand that even if it were true, most proponents of family values 
>realize that people sometimes make mistakes.  In Clinton's case, however, his 
>pattern of behavior goes far, far beyond simple "mistakes."

>Anyone who can't see the pre-election slant in media coverage toward Clinton, 
>arguably, can't see at all.

>Roger Shouse

  Well-stated, Roger. :-)
  Aren't the liberals so utterly in denial?



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:42 PST 1996
Article: 508595 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.nsa,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.org.fbi
Subject: REPOST: More SECURITY LEAKS at the Clinton Whitehouse
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:55:40 GMT
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jakala@netcom.com (henry jakala) wrote:

>By Bill Gertz 
>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

> The State Department's intelligence chief is under
> investigation for questionable foreign contacts and
> improperly seeking top-secret documents that link her
> husband and a family friend to Hungary's spy service, The
> Washington Times has learned. 
> Tobi T. Gati, assistant secretary of state for
> intelligence and research, is being investigated by the
> department's inspector general's office over charges of
> several security-related abuses, according to Clinton
> administration and congressional officials familiar with the
> case.
> On Capitol Hill, investigators for congressional
> committees with jurisdiction over intelligence and State
> Department matters are scrutinizing Mrs. Gati's actions since her
>July 1993 appointment. "At least two committees will take a very
> serious look at this," said a senior House GOP investigator.
> Among the matters under investigation are claims that
> Mrs. Gati, a political appointee and friend of first lady
> Hillary Rodham Clinton, improperly provided information
> to Russia's foreign minister and received intelligence data
> without proper clearances and before being confirmed by
> the Senate.
> The FBI reviewed the case for criminal wrongdoing or
> foreign counterespionage activities and decided against
> launching an investigation, referring the case to the
> inspector general's office.
> Spokesmen for the FBI and the inspector general's
> office declined comment.
> Mrs. Gati, 50, is a former vice president of the United
> Nations Association in New York and has written about
> the Soviet Union and Russia. Before her appointment in
> the Clinton administration, she had no experience in
> intelligence matters. She joined the National Security
> Council staff as a Russia expert in early 1993.
> The security violations could lead to the revocation of
> Mrs. Gati's security clearance and her dismissal.
> Mrs. Gati and her husband, Charles, told The Times
> they were unaware of any investigation and had done
> nothing wrong.
> Investigators want to know if Mrs. Gati misused her
> position and violated security rules in getting two highly
> classified documents from the National Security Agency at
> a time when she was not cleared properly for intelligence
> derived from communications intercepts, among the most
> closely guarded secrets in government.
> One document linked a family friend of Mrs. Gati to
> the Hungarian intelligence service, and a second document
> suggested that her husband, then an official in the State
> Department's policy planning office, was a
> counterintelligence risk, said officials familiar with the
> reports.
> The investigators also are trying to determine if
> officials of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the
> State Department office Mrs. Gati heads, covered up
> evidence of wrongdoing by her and others working there.
> In addition, investigators are reviewing Mrs. Gati's
> close ties to several Russian officials, including Andrei
> Kozyrev, who was foreign minister until January.
> Also at issue is whether Mrs. Gati provided false
> statements under oath in a pending discrimination case
> brought before the Equal Employment Opportunity
> Commission (EEOC) by Frank Foldvary, a career
> intelligence analyst who said he was persecuted after he
> supplied the NSA documents to Mrs. Gati.
> The FBI cleared Mr. Foldvary, a native of Hungary,
> of wrongdoing, a law enforcement source said.
> According to the officials and documents, the
> investigation of Mrs. Gati grew out of a dispute with Mr.
> Foldvary that began in August 1993.
> At that time, Charles Gati demanded to see Mr.
> Foldvary several times and asked to see a list of
> intelligence officers posted to the Hungarian Embassy in
> Washington that Mr. Foldvary obtained in 1990, according
> to an EEOC affidavit by Mr. Foldvary.
> Mr. Foldvary declined, saying the information was too
> sensitive.
> But he warned Mr. Gati that a friend he had
> mentioned in a conversation was linked to Hungary's
> intelligence service. Mr. Foldvary quoted Mr. Gati as
> responding, "Oh, my God, and he is supposed to be our
> house guest tomorrow."
> Mr. Foldvary also said Mr. Gati expressed worries
> about the friend's spy connection because he had arranged
> for meetings between the friend and two State Department
> officials.
> The meetings were set up in exchange for the
> suspected agent's arranging meetings for Mr. Gati with
> Hungarian officials during an earlier visit to Budapest, Mr.
> Foldvary testified before the EEOC.
> Mr. Gati told The Times that he met Mr. Foldvary
> and discussed the intelligence ties to the house guest, but
> he disputed Mr. Foldvary's version of events. He claimed
> the document was given to him by Mr. Foldvary, who told
> him Mrs. Gati should be informed of its content.
> Mr. Gati said the spy connection was "interesting but
> ambiguous," although he declined to discuss the contents
> of the classified document.
> But other officials said the information identified the
> Gatis' friend as Ivan Volgyes, who is linked to the
> Hungarian intelligence service. Mr. Volgyes is a
> Hungarian-born U.S. citizen who until 1995 was a political
> science professor at the University of Nebraska.
> Reached at his home in Budapest, Mr. Volgyes could
> not recall visiting the Gatis in August 1993 but said, "I
> visited the Gatis very frequently." He denied any
> connection with Hungarian intelligence.
> In his August 1993 meeting with Mr. Foldvary, Mr.
> Gati also asked if he was the subject of any intelligence
> information, according to the EEOC affidavit Mr. Foldvary
> suggested he was.
> Within hours -- and despite not having the proper
> security clearances, Mrs. Gati asked Mr. Foldvary to
> produce the documents relating to her husband and Mr.
> Volgyes, according to filings in the EEOC case.
> "It is an ugly world out there," Mrs. Gati said after
> reading the documents, according to Mr. Foldvary's
> affidavit.
> Mrs. Gati, in an interview with The Times, denied
> seeking any documents from Mr. Foldvary. "I wasn't
> confirmed ... at the time. I did not have the power to
> request documents, nor could I have," she said.
> In responses to questions made under oath in the
> EEOC case, Mrs. Gati insisted that Mr. Foldvary "brought
> in and handed" her a highly classified document on his
> own initiative. "Nor did I ever task him to do anything on
> my behalf," she said.
> Mrs. Gati testified that she recalled getting only one
> NSA document with the initials "I.V." on the corner. She
> said she had the document destroyed under security
> procedures.
> Within weeks of giving the document to Mrs. Gati,
> Mr. Foldvary was charged with improperly obtaining them.
> Mr. Foldvary, through his attorney, declined to
> comment.
> According to officials interviewed by The Times, the
> second document given to Mrs. Gati by Mr. Foldvary was
> an NSA intercept that raised serious counterespionage
> worries about Mr. Gati's ties to the Hungarian government,
> specifically through Hungary's embassy in the United
> States. The document did not identify Mr. Gati by name
> but had the initials "Ch. G." written in the margin, the
> officials said.
> Mr. Gati denied having any connection to Hungarian
> intelligence.
> No other details of the NSA documents could be
> learned.
> Documents obtained by The Times show that security
> clearance forms for the Gatis were improperly filled out.
> Security experts said rules require the forms to be
> filled out properly before any access to highly classified
> intelligence is allowed.




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:43 PST 1996
Article: 508607 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot
Subject: The Rosenbergs revisited?
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:39:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  [The first time I tried to make this post under the above subject
line the main body of it somehow mysteriously disappeared.
  The only reason I know is that I received an email from an irate ng
reader who basically asked me, "Don't you know how to post?"
  Having successfully made literally hundreds of new posts inthe past,
I obviously DO know how to post.
  The question remains: who deleted the body of my first attempt to
post this? And why? -- JB]

jakala@netcom.com (henry jakala) wrote:

>By Bill Gertz 
>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

> The State Department's intelligence chief is under
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> investigation for questionable foreign contacts and
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> improperly seeking top-secret documents that link her
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> husband and a family friend to Hungary's spy service, The
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Washington Times has learned. 
> Tobi T. Gati, assistant secretary of state for
> intelligence and research, is being investigated by the
> department's inspector general's office over charges of
> several security-related abuses, according to Clinton
> administration and congressional officials familiar with the
> case.
> On Capitol Hill, investigators for congressional
> committees with jurisdiction over intelligence and State
> Department matters are scrutinizing Mrs. Gati's actions since her
>July 1993 appointment. "At least two committees will take a very
> serious look at this," said a senior House GOP investigator.
> Among the matters under investigation are claims that
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Mrs. Gati, a political appointee and friend of first lady
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Hillary Rodham Clinton, improperly provided information
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to Russia's foreign minister and received intelligence data
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> without proper clearances and before being confirmed by
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Senate . . . 
   ^^^^^^^^^

> Mrs. Gati, 50, is a former vice president of the 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>United Nations Association in New York and has written about
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Soviet Union and Russia. Before her appointment in
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Clinton administration, she had no experience in
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> intelligence matters. She joined the National Security
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Council staff as a Russia expert in early 1993.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> The security violations could lead to the revocation of
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Mrs. Gati's security clearance and her dismissal . . . 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Investigators want to know if Mrs. Gati misused her
> position and violated security rules in getting two highly
> classified documents from the National Security Agency at
> a time when she was not cleared properly for intelligence
> derived from communications intercepts, 
>among the most closely guarded secrets in government.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> One document linked a family friend of Mrs. Gati to
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Hungarian intelligence service, and a second document
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> suggested that her husband, then an official in the State
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Department's policy planning office, was a
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> counterintelligence risk, said officials familiar with the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> reports.
> The investigators also are trying to determine if
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> officials of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> State Department office Mrs. Gati heads, covered up
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> evidence of wrongdoing by her and others working there.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> In addition, investigators are reviewing Mrs. Gati's
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> close ties to several Russian officials, including Andrei
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Kozyrev, who was foreign minister until January.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:44 PST 1996
Article: 508903 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!winternet.com!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!cdc2.cdc.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!news2.acs.oakland.edu!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.bob-dole,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.clinton
Subject: Re: Co-dependent women overwhelmingly support Clinton ...
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 05:19:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 20
Message-ID: <56jg11$oi5@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <55utcn$eot@nexp.crl.com> <55vtl3$7d6@hpbs2500.boi.hp.com> <56b0h4$8hd@nexp.crl.com> <56iktc$948@nexp.crl.com>
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rci@crl.com (Michael Powell) wrote:





>	Andrew responds:  (none)


>	Diane responds:   (none)



>	How typical... call people names, then disappear when confronted.

>	Liberalism is a disease.

>	-mp-




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:45 PST 1996
Article: 508958 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news.abs.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!tezcat!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.fbi,alt.politics.org.nsa
Subject: The Rosenbergs revisited?: More security leaks at the Klinton Whitehouse!
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:25:22 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <56i2lb$80b@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
References: 
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jakala@netcom.com (henry jakala) wrote:

>By Bill Gertz 
>THE WASHINGTON TIMES

> The State Department's intelligence chief is under
> investigation for questionable foreign contacts and
> improperly seeking top-secret documents that link her
> husband and a family friend to Hungary's spy service, The
> Washington Times has learned. 
> Tobi T. Gati, assistant secretary of state for
> intelligence and research, is being investigated by the
> department's inspector general's office over charges of
> several security-related abuses, according to Clinton
> administration and congressional officials familiar with the
> case . . . 

> Among the matters under investigation are claims that
> Mrs. Gati, a political appointee and friend of first lady
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Hillary Rodham Clinton, improperly provided information
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> to Russia's foreign minister and received intelligence data
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> without proper clearances and before being confirmed by
> the Senate . . . .

> Mrs. Gati, 50, is a former vice president of the United
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Nations Association in New York and has written about
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Soviet Union and Russia. Before her appointment in
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Clinton administration, she had no experience in
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> intelligence matters. She joined the National Security
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Council staff as a Russia expert in early 1993.
> The security violations could lead to the revocation of
> Mrs. Gati's security clearance and her dismissal . . . 

> Investigators want to know if Mrs. Gati misused her
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> position and violated security rules in getting two highly
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> classified documents from the National Security Agency at
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> a time when she was not cleared properly for intelligence
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> derived from communications intercepts, among the most
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> closely guarded secrets in government.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> One document linked a family friend of Mrs. Gati to
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> the Hungarian intelligence service, and a second document
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> suggested that her husband, then an official in the State
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Department's policy planning office, was a
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> counterintelligence risk, said officials familiar with the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> reports.
  ^^^^^^
  ^^^^^^
> The investigators also are trying to determine if
> officials of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the
> State Department office Mrs. Gati heads, covered up
> evidence of wrongdoing by her and others working there.
> In addition, investigators are reviewing Mrs. Gati's
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> close ties to several Russian officials, including Andrei
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Kozyrev, who was foreign minister until January.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:46 PST 1996
Article: 508984 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!news.magmacom.com!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.org.nsa,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.org.fbi
Subject: Re: REPOST: Clinton White House penetrated by Chinese intelligence units !!!!
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 10:48:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  There you have it folks: "mark@worldcom.com" has publically called
for abridging my Constitutionally-protected freedom of speech via the
deliberate forging of my identity.
  Suffice it to say that I will most CERTAINLY be:

a. be bringing this matter up to the relevant law enforcement 
    authorities; and,

b. seeking legal advice from my attorney as to what legal grounds I 
    may have for initiating litigation against "mark@worldcom.com."

  And btw, I'm quite serious -- and, moreover, I'm confident that
"mark@worldcom.com" will soon enough regret his ill-advised campaign
to trample on my freedom of speech.
  (Thankfully, I've also saved the abusive email "mark@worldcom.com"
has been sending me recently as well. Undoubtedly this evidence will
further support my belief that "mark@worldcom.com" is be guilty of
engaging in malicious criminality, if it does, ultimately, go to
court.)
 
mark@worldcom.com (Mark) wrote:

>joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>This is another example of blatant, deliberate SPAMMING.   Spamming
>among other things is a way of completely shutting down discussion in
>a newsgroup by overwhelming it with off-topic cross-postings.

>In other words, it's censorship.  Joebuck has no interest in
>initiating or carrying out discussion, as evidenced by the fact that
>he is doing nothing other than reposting others' messages.  By the
>same logic, killing bona fide SPAM messages, such as the one this is
>in followup to,  is not censorship.

>If you're tired of these spams reaching your newsgroup, they can be
>cancelled.  Simply do the following:

>(The instructions apply to the Forte Free Agent newsreader, but other
>newsreaders are the same or similar.)

>1.  Go into Options - Preferences.   

>2.  In the case of spammer "Joebuck," change your information to
>joebuck@ix.netcom.com in relevant fields.

>3.   Go into Article.

>4.  Choose Cancel.

>5.  A "Cancel" Message will be generated.  You should include in the
>body of the message your reason for cancellation.

>6.  Go into Options - Preferences and reset the information to your
>own.

>Keep in mind that the cancellation of messages is something not to be
>taken lightly.  But a general consensus exists that cancellation of
>SPAM is a legitimate action.  For a guide as to when newsgroups rely
>on cancellation, read some of the cancel messages in the newsgroup
>control.cancel.   Each message contains a reason for the cancellation.







From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:47 PST 1996
Article: 509654 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!torn!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.society.conservatism,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Paramount's Hard Copy Lies, Lies, Lies!
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 07:53:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <56jp1j$dqk@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
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  Thanks for a most interesting and informative post.
  Incidentally, isn't it UNBELIEVABLY HYPOCRITICAL that Sen. Feinstein
[D-CA] -- one of the most vociferous anti-gun spokepersons in the
nation -- herself has been known to pack a concealed firearm?
  Yup, Feinstein's still got a valid, concealed-gun-carry permit, I
believe -- a document virtually IMPOSSIBLE for us "little people" to
obtain at any price.
  I wouldn't be at all surprised if anti-gun zealot Rep. Charles
Schumer [D-NY] -- who regularly leads the charge in Congress to have
the U.S. taxpayers to arm Israel to the hilt with the world's most
lethal weapons-- carries a gun himself.
  She says she's in danger because she's a public person. As if all
those "nameless" victims of murder each year didn't, while still
alive, have a good enough reason to carry a weapon.

>"Big Oh" 

>"Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have 
>made laws.  On the contrary, it was the fact that life, 
>liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to 
>make laws in the first place."
>      Frederic Bastiat

>"Power over a man's subsistence is power over his will."
>      Alexander Hamilton

>"The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone 
>seeks to live at the expense of everyone else."
>      Frederic Bastiat

>"Once politics become a tug-of-war for shares in the income 
>pie, decent government is impossible."
>      Friedrich A. Hayek

  LOVE those quotes!



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:48 PST 1996
Article: 509802 of talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!torn!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.org.nsa,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.org.fbi
Subject: REPOST: Clinton White House penetrated by Chinese intelligence units !!!!
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 19:59:34 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 244
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>henry jakala (jakala@netcom.com) wrote:

>:  A White House packed to the gills with drug abusers, leftists, criminals
>:and who knows what else have been easy pickings for Chinese Communist
>:Intelligence operations
>:  Read it and weep - this is what Klinton and the Democrats are all about

>: Chinese trade coup staggers US spy chiefs
>: London Times
>: 11/10/96

>:  PRESIDENT Bill Clinton may have
>:  been the victim of a massive
>:  Chinese espionage operation
>:  intended to gather top-secret
>:  information on American trade and
>:  economic policy, according to
>:  intelligence officials and
>:  Republican sources. 

>:  The CIA and Congress have launched
>:  investigations into what appears
>:  to have been a stunning
>:  intelligence coup by China. In a
>:  four-year operation, Chinese
>:  agents were able to take advantage
>:  of lax security procedures and a
>:  pattern of corruption in the
>:  Clinton administration to get
>:  routine access for their friends
>:  and associates to the highest
>:  levels of the administration,
>:  including the Oval Office. 

>:  In return, China was able to lobby
>:  for the retention of most favoured
>:  nation status, worth billions of
>:  dollars a year to Peking, and have
>:  advanced knowledge of America's
>:  negotiating positions in trade and
>:  economic talks as well as access
>:  to trade deals subsidised by
>:  America. "It's bad," said one
>:  intelligence source. "The Chinese
>:  have clearly pulled off the kind
>:  of coup we would have loved to
>:  have done." 

>:  The operation will be the focus of
>:  an investigation by the House
>:  oversight committee, expected when
>:  Congress resumes in January. A
>:  dossier prepared for the committee
>:  details "People's Republic of
>:  China Intelligence Penetration" of
>:  the Clinton administration. 

>:  The investigation is certain to
>:  destroy any vestige of "bipartisan
>:  co-operation" that some
>:  Republicans and Democrats hoped to
>:  see in Clinton's second term. Some
>:  Republicans believe that the
>:  evidence is so damaging that
>:  senior administration officials
>:  are certain to be indicted. 

>:  Fears of a Chinese intelligence
>:  scam stem from an investigation
>:  into the millions of dollars the
>:  Democrats received in illegal
>:  campaign contributions over the
>:  past four years. The Clinton
>:  administration gave high-level
>:  access to donors to lobby
>:  officials and paid them off with
>:  generous subsidised trade deals. 

>:  Until now, this has been regarded
>:  as an example of corruption in the
>:  Clinton administration. Now it is
>:  suspected much more was involved
>:  and that the First Bureau of the
>:  military intelligence department
>:  in China, responsible for
>:  gathering intelligence abroad, was
>:  the big winner. 

>:  Investigators are focusing on the
>:  Chinese Resources Bank, based in
>:  Hong Kong and officially the
>:  commercial arm of China's ministry
>:  of foreign trade and economic
>:  co-operation. However, according
>:  to western intelligence sources,
>:  the bank is a front for Chinese
>:  intelligence. 

>:  "A vice-president of the China
>:  Resources Holding Company in Hong
>:  Kong is traditionally a military
>:  case officer," said Nicholas
>:  Eftimiades, a China specialist
>:  with the Defence Intelligence
>:  Agency. "This officer coordinates
>:  the collection activities of other
>:  intelligence personnel operating
>:  under [China Resources] cover." 

>:  In what appears to have been a
>:  classic espionage operation
>:  launched days after Clinton was
>:  elected in November 1992, China
>:  Resources purchased at a discount
>:  a 15% share in the Hong Kong
>:  Chinese Bank, which is owned by
>:  the Lippo Group, the Indonesian
>:  conglomerate with close ties to
>:  Clinton. 

>:  Eight months later, after the
>:  Lippo Group had demonstrated it
>:  had direct access to the Oval
>:  Office and was able to influence
>:  American foreign policy, China
>:  Resources increased its
>:  shareholding in the bank to 50%.
>:  This time, the Chinese paid a 50%
>:  premium and gave Lippo a profit of
>:  about £12m. A key figure in the
>:  affair is John Huang, a former
>:  Taiwanese air force officer. Born
>:  in China, he joined the Hong Kong
>:  Chinese Bank and in the mid-1980s
>:  moved to Little Rock, Arkansas,
>:  helping to establish Lippo's
>:  operations in Arkansas and getting
>:  to know Bill and Hillary Clinton
>:  well. 

>:  In January 1994, on the personal
>:  instructions of Ron Brown, the
>:  commerce secretary, Huang was
>:  given top-secret security
>:  clearance without background
>:  checks by the FBI or the state
>:  depart ment's Office of Security ­
>:  a strict requirement for somebody
>:  born in a foreign country. 

>:  This gave him access to vital
>:  American intelligence. Six months
>:  later, he was given a post in the
>:  commerce department and went with
>:  Brown on a trade mission to
>:  Peking. 

>:  "By the time Brown and Huang went
>:  to China in July 1994, there was
>:  $5.5 billion (£3.3 billion) in
>:  deals ready to be signed," said a
>:  Republican investigator. "Never in
>:  the history of America's trade
>:  relations with China has so much
>:  been put together so fast." 

>:  In the commerce department, Huang
>:  had access to much of the
>:  intelligence delivered daily to
>:  the department by the CIA that
>:  relates to economic and trade
>:  secrets gathered around the world.
>:  He also received weekly
>:  intelligence briefings from the
>:  CIA. 

>:  Shortly before joining the
>:  administration, Huang was given a
>:  $900,000 pay-off by the Lippo
>:  Group. However, he continued to
>:  keep in close touch with Mochtar
>:  Riady, his former boss at the
>:  Lippo Group. 

>:  Huang was also busy as a
>:  fundraiser for the Democrats,
>:  generating $5m in the past 12
>:  months, including a $450,000
>:  donation from Lippo. Some of those
>:  donations were illegal and in the
>:  past month the Democrats have
>:  returned $500,000. 

>:  In the past two years Huang has
>:  visited the White House about 70
>:  times and had several meetings
>:  with Clinton ­ unprecedented
>:  access for a relatively low-level
>:  official. 

>:  Riady himself made six trips to
>:  Washington in Clinton's first term
>:  and met the president several
>:  times on each visit. In September
>:  1995 Riady and Huang met Clinton
>:  and pressed for the retention of
>:  China's most favoured nation
>:  status. 

>:  At the least, the result of this
>:  lobbying appears to have been
>:  sweetheart deals for Lippo
>:  involving billions of dollars,
>:  some of which were under written
>:  by the US Export-Import Bank. At
>:  the same time, Clinton softened
>:  his stance against Indonesia's
>:  labour practices that had been
>:  attacked by Amnesty International.

>:  "What you seem to have here is a
>:  classic intelligence operation
>:  that took advantage of every
>:  opportunity presented," said one
>:  Republican source. "For a
>:  relatively modest investment, a
>:  foreign government gains access to
>:  the president, to lucrative trade
>:  deals and has a direct influence
>:  on our foreign policy. Who could
>:  ask for more?" 

>:  The White House is worried.
>:  Officials privately are pointing
>:  the finger at Brown, who was
>:  killed in an air crash earlier
>:  this year. "It's clear that Brown
>:  was running an illegal operation,"
>:  said one. "But how do you vilify a
>:  dead man who's a hero to the
>:  Democratic party?" 





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:49 PST 1996
Article: 509916 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.current-events.usa,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.equality,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.president.clinton,dc.politics,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.org.nsa,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.covert,alt.politics.org.fbi
Subject: Re: REPOST: Clinton White House penetrated by Chinese intelligence units !!!!
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 11:25:11 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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mark@worldcom.com (Mark) wrote:

>If you're tired of these spams reaching your newsgroup, they can be
>cancelled.  Simply do the following:

   BTW, I emailed two different individuals this morning, after I
noticed that posts I had made yesterday had not appeared online,
bringing up the matter of the "disappearance" of these posts.
  I have no doubt that these two U.S. Constitution-respecting
individuals will be delighted to testify -- in a court of law,
moreover -- that I did, in fact, contact them concerning the
then-unexplained "disappearance" of my posts and that I was noticeably
traumatized by the thought that I had been censored.
  (Of course, at the time I wrote these emails I was unaware of
"mark@worldcom.com"'s methodical program to cancel my posts using my
forged identity.
  On Monday I shall be contacting my attorney -- let him earn his
retainer for once! [see, I'm really not the "litigious type," usually,
but this "mark@worldcom.com" needs to be taught a lesson, IMHO] --
and, if there are any others out there reading this who have
suggestions (especially those who are attorneys themselves/have
special legal knowledge), I'd be delighted to hear from you (via
email, of course) for any comments you may have that my own legal
counsel may find useful in the pursuance of possible legal action
against the admited forger "mark@worldcom.com".



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 07:50:50 PST 1996
Article: 510166 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.mideast,soc.culture.jewish,soc.culture.israel,alt.activism,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.society.revolution,talk.politics.misc,alt.activism.d,soc.culture.african.american,soc.culture.african,soc.culture.palestine,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Israel problem
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 06:11:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <56orqo$57r@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
References:   <54ifud$d2u@News.IDT.NET> <54j9ga$90b@news.NetVision.net.il> <326DB013.3D18@ix.netcom.com> <326E452B.5262@ix.netcom.com> <327d0acb.156391357@news.earthlink.net> <327d881a.9422785@news.alterdial.uu.net> <01bbcd9b$48e961a0$54fbacc7@ibl.bm.ibl.bm>  <56jasd$6v8@news1.panix.com>
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fresh@panix.com wrote:
[huge amount of self-serving Israel First!-type apologetics mercifully
deleted]

>. . .  And yes, they do consider themselves to be Arabs.  After all, they
>speak Arabic.  That's about the only thing that all Arabs have in common.

>BTW, the above is all factual information that can found in any
>reference book.  And FYI, my brother-in-law is an Arab Muslim from
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Morocco, and knows every word of what I've typed above is factually
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>correct.
  ^^^^^
>Andrew Mathis
>íéîåç íéìãðñ éì ùé
>My first Hebrew sentence.

  How can I put this . . . Have you ever considered the possibility
that the PRIMARY reason your Arab Muslim brother-in-law might say
he "knows" that "every word of what your wrote is factually correct"
is that he doesn't want to give his wife -- your sister -- any reason
for withholding her kosher c#nt from him?



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 08:30:58 PST 1996
Article: 343294 of talk.politics.guns
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Latest count: Dornan trails by 650 votes with 15,000 ballots remaining to be counted
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 05:32:32 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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ambrose@ix.netcom.com(Ambrose) wrote:
.. . . 
>Meanwhile, an INS agent has come forward and has stated that there was
>a campaign to naturalize illegals with criminal records, so they could
>register and vote Dornan out of office.

  Let's not forget, either, that the husband of Dornan's opponent
Loretta Sanchez-Brixey -- "Steven Brixey III" -- was actually ARRESTED
during the campaign when he was caught red-handed pulling down and
tearing up Republican Bob's posters on a public street.
  As a citizen, I appeal to the Federal Elections Commision to
investigate this in order to determine if there was a pattern of such
illegal dirty tricks against Dornan.
  Further, I appeal to the GOP to do EVERYTHING in its power to
provide a fair hearing for Bob Dornan.
  DISTURBINGLY, NEWT GINGRICH HAS GIVEN SIGNALS THAT HE MAY 
NOT BE  ALL-THAT DISAPPOINTED WITH DORNAN'S -- WITH WHOM HE'S 
CLASHED IN THE PAST -- DEFEAT.  (See yesterday's
Orange County Register for details.)
  If Gingrich continues in this back-stabbing vein, I can assure him
he will not be able to count on the support of many, many
conservatives in the future.




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 08:30:58 PST 1996
Article: 343424 of talk.politics.guns
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.fan.dan-quayle,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.elections,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.republican,mn.politics,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Senator Dornan?
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 05:06:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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clw1@ix.netcom.com (C. L. Williams) wrote:

>Another good choice is Susan Golding, mayor of San Diego.

  Yeah, right.
  Isn't Golding the one whose then-husband was involved in a MASSIVE
financial scandal during the late-1980s?
  Yeah, she'd be *great* as a California Senator. In fact, she'd "fit
right in":  another nice Jewish girl with awful judgement to add to
the current two Sens., Fenstein and Boxer!
  BTW, the hubby's of these current two California Senators are both
multi-millionaires.
  Has Golding remarried? 
  And, if so, is her new hubby *ALSO* a millionaire? 




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 20 08:30:59 PST 1996
Article: 343524 of talk.politics.guns
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!coopnews.coop.net!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.tacom.army.mil!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.usa.constitution,misc.survivalism,soc.culture.usa,talk.politics.guns,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.politics.perot,soc.veterans
Subject: Re: Patriots: The Threat Of Anti-Government Extremists
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 1996 06:15:58 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 8
Message-ID: <56rgfd$92g@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com>
References: <32825fe1.6917470@news1.wolfenet.com><32825fe1.6917470@news1.wolfenet.com>  <328fbc41.0@atheria.europa.com> <328FE183.78F0@compuserve.com>
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  I never thought I'd see the day when someone could self-righteously
make a post having the subject line 

             "Patriots: The Threat Of Anti-Government Extremists."

  May God save our troubled, deteriorating Nation while there's still
time.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 06:24:36 PST 1996
Article: 81244 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.radical-left,alt.activism,soc.culture.intercultural
Subject: Re: Israeli Court Values Palestinian Life at One-Third of a Cent
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 09:00:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 32
Message-ID: <576bjs$qnq@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
References: <19961119192600.OAA28167@ladder01.news.aol.com>
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  Did anyone else see this report in the Washington Post? Is it for
real?

ivanpv@aol.com wrote:

>          An amazing article on Israeli justice appeared in the  
>"Washington Post," Nov. 19, 1996, p. A-15,  by Barton Gellman:

>	"An Israeli military court has convicted four soldiers of
>negligently shooting to death an 18-year-old Palestinian in the West Bank.
> Then it passed sentence:  one hour in jail, suspended, and a fine of one
>Israeli agora--just under one-third of a U.S. cent."
[snip]
>  "But something about Sunday's sentencing struck a nerve when the
>news was made public today.  The agora, one-hundredth of an Israeli
>shekel, is so meager a sum that merchants commonly refuse to bother with
>change of less than 100, and coins valued at less than 10 no longer exist.
> Human rights advocates, Israeli and Arab, saw a message in the precision
>of the fine."
>  "'One agora!' said Bassam Eid, founder of the Palestinian Human
>Rights Monitoring Group.  'It means the government wants to show how much
>a Palestinian person's life is worth.  Its message is very clear: 'This is
>how cheap you are for us'"
>	
>	If , according to Israeli justice, the killing of  one Palestinian
>involves a fine of one-third of a cent, then the killing of six million
>people would impose a penalty of  twenty thousand dollars.    But, of
>course, this amount would only apply for Palestinian lives.  Not all lives
>are of equal value, as the Talmud tells us.  (For the Talmud's view,  see
>Israel Shahak, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion.") 




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 06:24:37 PST 1996
Article: 81746 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 03:24:00 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 16
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References: 
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  It shows you what kind of people the innocent Demjanjuk was dealing
with from the beginning: even AFTER he was found NOT GUILTY in an
ISRAELI court of law, they can't let the man live in peace.
  Shame on you persecutors of Mr. Demjanjk!
  I urge all concerned to read his righteous Israeli attorney's
(Scheftel's his name) recent book on the case, which describes in
detail how agents of the the US government (the specifically
Jewish-controlled Office of Special Investigations) -- in one of the
most despicable actions ever carried out by any American government
agency -- knowingly ignored (actually THREW IN A DUMPSTER!) evidence
that would have cleared Mr. Demjanjuk.
  As a result, this innocent man lost his US citizenship and was
hauled off to an Israeli prison camp -- where, as Pat Buchanan and
others had long predicted -- he was found utterly NOT GUILTY of being
"Ivan the Terrible," a notoriously evil concentation camp guard. 



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:19 PST 1996
Article: 111984 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Has your phone co voice-printed YOU yet?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 04:41:02 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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  The following is a  message I found in the "Letters" section of the
current [11/18/96], always-interesting SPOTLIGHT weekly newspaper:

                                "BIG BROTHER"

  "I called General Telephone Company's information for a number in
the St. Petersburg-Clearwater area.
  "A computer inquired: What city?; who's number was requested; then
said: 'Wait, an operator will be right with you.'
  "When the operator came on, I asked her, 'Why do I first get a
computer and then a real person?' The astounding response: 'We do a
voice print on all requests.'
  "I asked: 'Then you know the number I am calling from?'
  "The answer: 'Most frequently.'
  "Who gives a private corporation the right to voice print/trace my
number and catalogue my request""

  Two things I would like to comment on:

1.  The correspondent did not state on which date he called
information for the telephone number he was seeking.
     However, we *do* know that his request was made in the St.
Petersburg, Florida-area -- the site of race riots in recent weeks
which, it turns out, were perpetrated by people who already had
(according to published reports in the Establishment media itself)
literally TONS of ammunition (e.g. rocks) stockpiled beforehand.
  Was the admitted voice-printing done as part of increased
surveillance related to the race riots? Were officials trying to
intercept, for example, calls made by possible outside forces which
either a. themselves helped set off the riots; or b. sought to lend
aid to the rioters, fanning the flames to help spread it to the rest
of the state or nation? 

2. Since it's a crime to record telephone conversations unless both
parties are aware of such recording, or unless there is an audible
beep every few seconds, how can this voice-printing onth epart of a
private company be legal? 

                             



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:20 PST 1996
Article: 112100 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,rec.org.mensa,alt.politics.media,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,talk.environment,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.reform,talk.environment,alt.journalism,alt.news-media
Subject: Re: Slick Willie to Washington, D.C. : DROP DEAD
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 03:33:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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ambrose@ix.netcom.com(Ambrose) wrote:

>No Help From Clinton

>By Richard Cohen

>Tuesday, November 19 1996
>The Washington Post

>It was the very last question President Clinton got at his recent
>press conference, shouted as he headed for the door: "What about
>violence and chaos in the District of Columbia schools?" With that,
>the president was gone, and so my imagination must supply what
>my eyes could not see. The president went pale, murmured to an
>aide that he was being asked a question about Washington, fetched
>Hillary, ran for the plane and did not relax until he reached Asia.
>My God, doesn't the press know by now that this president has
>nothing to say about the city where he lives?

>No doubt that impertinent question was motivated by three school
>stabbings in the last week and the subsequent beating of a radio
>reporter sent to cover one of the incidents.[snip]

>You would think that such conditions would be noticed by the
>city's most famous resident, the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania
>Avenue. Not so. Bill Clinton is Washington's Louis XVI -- or
>maybe its shah. This tribune of the people, this president who
>wants to do so much for education, has had nothing to say -- and
>has done nothing -- for Washington. He comes and he goes and
>he, somehow, sees nothing.

>He would, though, have taken notice had the Clintons decided in
>1993 to send their daughter, Chelsea, to one of the public schools
>rather than the private one they chose. [snip]

>It would be simplistic to argue that all that ails the Washington
>school system is the relative lack of affluent students. But it does
>not help matters any that almost anyone with the bucks -- 
                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>from the president and Jesse Jackson on down -- 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tends to choose private schools for his kids.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Clinton, of course, has responsibilities beyond that of an average
>parent. He's the president and what you might call the head of a
>really extended family. Yet, unlike some recent first families -- the
>Johnsons, the Kennedys, the Nixons, the Bushes -- 
>the Clintons cast no shadow over the city in which they live.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  How could they? They're both "shadows" of authentic human beings
THEMSELVES. 
  Two supposed "leftists" with close CIA connections since their
college days. A '60s spook couple who made good by selling their
souls.

>It is not possible that they are unaware of what transpires right
>outside the White House gates since, just recently, Supreme Court
>Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had her purse snatched and World
>Bank President James Wolfensohn found armed men in his house.
>Instead, the Clintons apparently made a political decision not to
>attempt anything having to do with Washington because they saw
>no political advantage in doing so. That blanket let-them-eat-cake
>attitude includes a specious opposition to various tax-abatement
>plans -- specifically that the beneficiaries would be members of
>Congress. Alas, they pay taxes in their home districts, not
>Washington, D.C.

> In contrast, that supposed hatemonger Newt Gingrich (as the great
>Carl Rowan calls him), has involved himself in Washington's
>governance, maybe for no other reason than he cares about the
>nation's capital. A bit more than a month ago, the speaker waxed
>poetic about this fair city, saying, "The country wants to love its
>capital. This is a romantic country." The speaker spoke about
>Washington the way the Brits do about London or the French
>about their lovely Paris. In much of the world, in fact, the national
>capital is a source of pride. Americans, though, seem content to let
> Washington sink into the bog whence it came.

>Some of Washington's troubles are its own fault. The reelection of
>Marion Barry after a stint in jail amounted to an unprecedented
>attempt at civic self-destruction. But after the pols are blamed and
>after some racists have made some untenable arguments, the fact
>remains that Washington is the creation of the federal government
>-- an urban foundling born without the usual means of support and,
>now and evermore, in need of some help. It needs many things --
>both money and the authority to raise more of it -- but most of all it
>needs a president who will make its case to the American people.




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:21 PST 1996
Article: 112168 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!news.texas.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.politics.libertarianism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: Spam Stormtroopers
Date: Mon, 18 Nov 1996 07:45:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <56p1bn$45d@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>
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"PJH"  wrote:

>     What is more terrifying, Spam, Spam everywhere or all these virtuous
>Spam Stormtroopers dashing about in virulent outrage that anyone should
>have the audacity to contaminate the pristine sanctity of thier precious
>newsgroups??  They go on endlessly about how they're going to call in Big
>Brother 
>      What's even more bizarre is that they should post messages about what
>great snitches for Big Brother they are in a newsgroup called
>"alt.conspiracy", where Big Brother is seen as the enemy, accussed of
>blowing up civilian aircraft and other nefarious undertakings!      
>       Myself I'll take the Spam, and hope that all these virtuous Spam
>Stormtroopers are terminated in some devilish conspiracy!!(-;
>                                              Pete

  Absolutely.
  In recent days I myself have been the object of a free-speech-hating
campaign -- by someone who apparently disagrees with my politics -- to
literally cancel my Usenet posts.
  For the perpetrator's own words -- in which he provides a multi-step
set of instructions for others to follow to illegally forge my
Internet identity in order to cancel my posts, see the thread on
possible Chinese espionage in the White House. 
  One place I know of where this thread can be found is
alt.politics.org.cia.
   As for myself, though I myself almost always only cross-post msgs
of a political nature, and have NEVER, EVER posted or crossposted any
"make money now!"-type msgs, I still would like to err on the side of
safety and ALLOW -- not try to CENSOR -- those obnoxious, cross-posted
money-making posts.
  For, once we get into the business of self-righteously cancelling
what we derisively label "spam" and/or referring it's creators to Big
Brother, it's not too long later that others start demanding that
POLITICAL messages with which they disagree literally be cancelled.
  I know: I'm now the victim of one such individual who is determined
not to "allow" me to crosspost political msgs to multiple newsgroups.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:22 PST 1996
Article: 112358 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.california,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.immigration.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: WAR WITH MEXICO?
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 1996 10:11:51 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 7
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References: <32921912.8105996@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <56tq52$bdn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <56u5p2$64g@kirin.wwa.com>
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msimon@rworld.com (M Simon) wrote:

>Want to end the drug corruption?
>End prohibition.

  Finally we agree on something.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:23 PST 1996
Article: 112563 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,talk.environment,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.media,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.news-media,alt.journalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism
Subject: PEROT, BUCHANAN VINDICATED [was: re: Trade Deficit Worst in 9 Years Just Thank Clinton you voted for Mister Nafta Gatt Slick Willy.]
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 08:30:47 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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James Greif  wrote:

>U.S. Commerce Dept.

>                 NEW YORK (CNNfn) - The U.S. trade deficit
>                 laid an egg Wednesday, hatching the
>                 second-worst showing on record with a 10.1
>                 percent gain in September.
>                    Costly oil imports and weak overseas sales of
>                 commercial aircraft helped widen the gap
>                 between exported and imported goods and
>                 services to $11.3 billion, second only to July's
>                 all-time high of $11.6 billion, the U.S.
>                 Commerce Department reported Wednesday.
> 
>                   The trade gap's expansion surprised Wall
>                 Street economists who had forecast a slight
>                 narrowing to $9.5 billion, believing that the
>                 slowing U.S. economy would dampen demand
>                 for foreign goods. In August, the trade gap was
>                 $10.3 billion. Politically controversial trade again
>		 caused the U.S. trade gap with China to swell to $4.7
>                 billion in September.

>  		 Summers attributed the China gap in part to
>                 Asian businesses that have shifted production out
>                 of other popular production spots such as South
>                 Korea.
>                    Commerce reported that the total exports of
>                 goods and services dropped 1.4 percent in
>                 September to $68.8 billion, while imports
>                 increased to $80.1 billion. The U.S.' cumulative
>                 trade deficit for the third quarter of the year hit
>                 its highest point in almost nine years, it added.
> 
>	


>Lippo is a huge Asian conglomerate; Mr. Riady is
>one of the handful of entrepreneurs who've become
>billionaires under Indonesia's Suharto regime.
>Lippo's Little Rock connections date back to 1984;
>during the years of the Clinton governorship it
>entered into a partnership with Arkansas
>financier Jackson Stephens; Lippo put $16 million
>into the stock of Worthen Bank and made James
>Riady, Mochtar's son, a bank director.

>> President Clinton has told political supporters in Arkansas he will
>> devote a lot of time going after detractors who pursued him
>> on Whitewater and other ethical questions. He also called political
>> attackers "a cancer" and vowed to "cut (them) out of
>> American politics." The remarks, at an early Wednesday election party in
>> a Little Rock hotel, were reported Thursday by The
>> Associated Press. He said his political enemies have "hurt a lot of
>> people in our state," and vowed to end "that kind of
>> systematic abuse."






From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:24 PST 1996
Article: 113207 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Special JFK case 'wrap' w/current SPOTLIGHT
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:03:24 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy.jfk:46400 alt.conspiracy:113207

  I have NO affiliation with "The SPOTLIGHT" whatsoever, but am making
the following information available as it may be of interest to
participants in these two conspiracy-related newsgroups:
  The current (11/25/96) issue of The SPOTLIGHT comes inside a special
4-page JFK assassination wrap.
  The wrap features ads for Mark Lane's books/videos on the JFK case,
Lane/Dick Gregory's video "Murder in Memphis," the Hollywood video
"Executive Action" w/Burt Lancaster), the Files confession video and
the new, expanded and updated 3rd edition of Piper's "Final Judgment:
The Missing Link in the JFK Assassination Conspiracy."

(SPOTLIGHT subscription information: (800) 522-6292)



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:05:25 PST 1996
Article: 113549 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.elections,talk.environment,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.media,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.news-media,alt.journalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.california,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: INS Agent: Illegal Alien Criminals May Have Made the Difference in Dornan Race
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 03:09:34 GMT
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ambrose@ix.netcom.com(Ambrose) wrote:

>INS citizenship dispute touches Dornan race

>By JEAN O. PASCO
>The Orange County Register

>A congressional investigation into a federal program that
>mistakenly allowed foreign felons to become naturalized
>U.S. citizens could spill over into the cliffhanger
>congressional race between Rep. Robert K. Dornan and
>Democrat Loretta Sanchez.

  Let's remember that the "federal program" referred to in Ms. Pasco's
disturbing article was headed by none other than Vice President Gore.
  The fact is, PRESIDENT CLINTON *PERSONALLY* PUT GORE IN CHARGE OF
THE "CITIZENSHIP USA" PROGRAM. 
  What *POSSIBLE* motive could Clinton have had in doing so?
  Well, it's well-known that Mr. Gore fully intends to run for
president himself in the year 2000. Of course, his chances for
re-election, he and his supprters feel, would be vastly improved if he
went into the election already having the status of  VP of the
country.
  Thus, Clinton knew that there was no one in the world more motivated
to get people naturailzed in such record-breaking numbers, nor so
quickly, as Al Gore before the 1996 election.

>  . . . County elections officials estimate a final count by Nov.
>26. Dornan already has charged that massive voter fraud
>by noncitizens tainted the results.

>The congressman said Thursday that he was told by an
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Immigration and Naturalization Service agent in Los
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Angeles that potentially thousands of local immigrants
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with criminal records were naturalized as part of a
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>citizenship program that also encouraged voter
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>registration.
 ^^^^^^^^^
>"He sought out our race and called us," Dornan said.
>"We're concerned that this was deliberate."

>Richard Rogers, INS district director in Los Angeles, said
>his agency has reviewed all 218,000 citizenship cases in
>ts seven-county district, including Orange County, from
>Oct. 1, 1995, to Sept. 30, 1996.

>Of the 218,000 cases, 66 are being reviewed for possible
>revocation because the FBI discovered criminal records
>for the applicants, Rogers said.

>"This is a matter of concern to us, but we have no
>evidence that it could have affected an election," he said.

>INS Special Agent James Humble-Sanchez said he called
>Dornan because of his concerns that some Hispanic
>residents newly registered to vote in Dornan's district
>aren't eligible for citizenship. He testified before a House
>subcommittee investigating the INS "Citizenship USA"
>program about six weeks ago.

>"I don't know the numbers, but it's possible it could affect
>the outcome of the race," he said. "I'm trying to work
                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>with the House subcommittee to prevent the agency
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>from burying this."
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>INS officials have conceded that some immigrants with
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>criminal records were naturalized. But they deny the
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>problem is widespread and said it occurred because of a
>swell of immigrants applying for citizenship.

>Jim Wilon, counsel for the House subcommittee
>investigating the citizenship program, said its primary
>focus is identifying criminals granted U.S. citizenship and
>revoking it.

>"Federal elections are not within our jurisdiction," he said.

>House Speaker Newt Gingrich, R-Ga., already has
>pledged an investigation by the House Oversight
>Committee into Dornan's charges.

>"(Dornan) is making everyone with brown skin a suspect,
>a criminal," said Hispanic activist Arturo Montez of the
>League of United Latin American Citizens in Santa Ana.

  Bullsh#t. How dare this Mr. Montez smear people for bringing up the
issue of possible widespread voting irregularities! ESPECIALLY after
an INS official himself brought it up!

>"The reality is that these are new citizens with every right
>to vote like everyone else. And they're making their own
>choices at the ballot box."




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:54:23 PST 1996
Article: 512262 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.conservatism,talk.politics,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: New Vincent Foster evidence
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 1996 07:43:39 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Dan Prives  wrote:

>What about the report that a week before his death Vincent Foster was 
>seen with a woman who looked a lot like Hillary Clinton and they were 
>throwing something off the Tallahatchie bridge?

  That nice, young preacher Brother Swaggart dropped by todaaaaaaay.
  Pass the biscuits, pleeeeeeeeeeease . . .
    :-) 



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:54:26 PST 1996
Article: 512267 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,alt.society.conservatism,talk.politics,alt.politics.correct,alt.fan.ronald-reagan,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Hillary Disbarred?
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 07:19:53 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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gary.nt@ix.netcom.com (Ford) wrote:

>On 21 Nov 1996 12:40:14 GMT, babylon1@ix.netcom.com(Charles Daab)
>wrote:

>>A caller to the Bob Grant radio show on Tuesday said that he had heard
>>that Hillary has been disbarred, does anyone know anything about this?

>Great source of reliable information, talk radio.

  Ford's response is very illustrative of the frustrated liberals who,
like their fellow leftists such as Fidel Castro,  cannot bring
themsleves to acknowledge the fact that The People will, when given
the chance, find a way to "vote" which is not to their (the
liberals/leftists) liking. 
  In Castro's case, the people "vote" by escaping his left-wing island
paradise in whatever floats.
  In the case of millions of Americans, the "vote" by tuning in to
talk radio. :-)
  Now, if talk radio had a reputation for being liberal/left-wing,
people like the bitter, frustrated, in-denial Ford would be shouting
about how "democratic" talk radio is, how citizen-friendly to
"participatory democracy" talk radio is.
  However, because talk radio has a reputation for being dominated by
the Right, they find a need to denigrate it.
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 25 07:54:27 PST 1996
Article: 512273 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,talk.politics,guns,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.flame.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Saturday Night Live skit: "The President's a murderer!"
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 08:32:04 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Lindsey Lee  wrote:

>Tim, you guys really are thick!  What, you think this is serious 
>editorial comment on the part of the SNL news team?  The skit is making 
>fun of the right wing conspiracy loons!  Only right wing conspiracy loons 
>would not get the joke and take Saturday Night Live as a real news 
>source.  You guys crack me up.  You really do!

  Look, you're undoubtedly the *only* person who read Tim's post who
gots the mistaken impression that Tim wasn't totally aware that the
SNL skit was part and parcel of one of the show's regular comedy
segments.
  Far from being a satire of the "right wing conspiracy loons," the
skit was a way for even the involved liberal players/producers/writers
of SNL to express their own suspicions about the Clinton presidency.
  Recall the live audience's response, moreover: far from laughing
throughout the routine, they were "ooooooh!"-ing, probably a bit
shocked that the NYC-based show would get into such a taboo area.
  Lee, you are truly one liberal "in denial," if anyone is. :-)
    
  




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 06:24:47 PST 1996
Article: 81969 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:23:19 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Reuven Singer  wrote:

>joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>>   It shows you what kind of people the innocent Demjanjuk was dealing
>> with from the beginning: even AFTER he was found NOT GUILTY in an
>> ISRAELI court of law, they can't let the man live in peace.
>>   Shame on you persecutors of Mr. Demjanjk!
>>   I urge all concerned to read his righteous Israeli attorney's
>> (Scheftel's his name) recent book on the case, which describes in
>> detail how agents of the the US government (the specifically
>> Jewish-controlled Office of Special Investigations) -- in one of the
>> most despicable actions ever carried out by any American government
>> agency -- knowingly ignored (actually THREW IN A DUMPSTER!) evidence
>> that would have cleared Mr. Demjanjuk.
>>   As a result, this innocent man lost his US citizenship and was
>> hauled off to an Israeli prison camp -- where, as Pat Buchanan and
>> others had long predicted -- he was found utterly NOT GUILTY of being
>> "Ivan the Terrible," a notoriously evil concentation camp guard.
>But the court found that he was definitely a concentration camp
>guard-perhaps Ivan the Very Bad as opposed to Ivan the Terrible. They
>let him off on a judicial technicality which probably would not have
>occurred in the US-thus Israeli law showed itself more protective of the
>rights of the accusesd than US law. He's free but by no means innocent,
>and he still lied on obtaining US citizenship about his activities
>during the war-thus it is appropriate for the US to deport him.

  BTW, where's the American Civil Liberties Union in all this?
  Why haven't they come to the aid of Mr. Demjanjuk? 
  They couldn't be guilty of HYPOCRISY, could they?



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 06:36:26 PST 1996
Article: 113986 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.showbiz.gossip,alt.journalism,talk.rumors,rec.arts.tv,alt.conspiracy,alt.disney,alt.disney.criticism
Subject: Re: DRUDGE REPORT 11/25/96:  JOURNALISTS SLAVES TO SHOWBIZ PRODUCT
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:32:20 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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drudge@lainet.com (Matt Drudge) wrote:

>XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT BREAK XXXXX NOVEMBER 25, 1996 XXXXX

>"IF YOU PRINT THAT, YOU'LL REGRET IT!"

  AKA, "If you post that, you'll never eat lox 'n bagels in this town
again!"

>New study finds entertainment journalists slaves to the product

  What else is new? But Drudge *does* deserves kudos for his courage
in making this fact explicit.

>HOLLYWOOD -- SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS writer Glenn Lovell is about
> to unleash a doozie.  He's just finished a provocative piece detailing how 
>major studios and entertainment publicists are strong-arming journalists in
> their showbiz coverage.

  It's nice to see there are still some HONEST JOURNALISTS left in
Tooshneltown.

>The bold, detailed trip into the twisted world of press and press passes
>will no doubt create outrage in media circles.  Lovell dares to go against
>the VARIETY/ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY/CNN SHOWBIZ TODAY
>code of silence and gets deep with examples of 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>pressure and threats that come to
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>those who sin by turning a critical eye on television and movie 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>product.
 ^^^^^^^

 ! VIVA GLENN LOVELL! !VIVA MATT DRUDGE!

[snip]

>Lovell will name DISNEY as the studio with the most odious control-the-press
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>tendencies, based on a survey of entertainment journalists; [snip]
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Eisner's Disney?  Gee, ya don't say!
  But then again, what ELSE can one expect of a company which, in
several recent newspaper articles, was shown to have contentedly
presided over a theme park (Disneyland) whose Gestapo/Security
Department was accusing parents of shoplifting (e.g. when their tot
ran out of a Disneyland store holding a stuffed animal), hauling the
mortified parent off to the theme park's jail behind Tomorrowland, and
then hitting said parent up for a $500 on-the-spot payment? 
  (Read all the nasty details in the Orange County Register series of
a few months ago.)
>----------------------------
>In my opinion, the continuous onslaught of DISNEY/WARNER images and
>sensibilities, with the help of phony journalists, is nothing short of a
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>brainwash. 
  ^^^^^^^^

  Well-stated, Mr. Drudge.

>Objective reporters, who don't have fantasies of necking with
>Eisner on a Lear Jet to all-access heaven,

  Cheesh, Mr. D: right after I filled my belly with all the fixin's!
.. . . Anyone got a barf bag?

> pose a constant threat to the marketing departments; 
 [snip]

>If you want sit-downs with celebrities, if you want to get into the
>screenings, you better know who's in charge and you better find a way to get
>the approved message into print.  

  The old Pravda hacks had NOTHIN' on these people.

[snip]

>The control of images and news cycles, 
>the weaving of studio-friendly entertainment stories 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>into serious news broadcasts, sometimes owned by the
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>very studio that is endorsed, is a serious development to
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>all who love freedom of critique.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  I have no idea what Mr. Drudge's politice are, nor do I care, for he
is, IMO, a GENUINE patriot any way you look at it.
[snip]
>Up in Burbank, darling Brooke Shields is being billed as the new Lucy --
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>such comedic timing, so gifted.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Didja find that barf bag yet? . . . 

 >Magazine cover after magazine cover has
>been drilling it in for months now:  SUDDENLY SUSAN is in for a nice long run.
>But sadly, the coverage isn't based on Brooke's acting or the show's content
>at all -- pressmen and presswomen are just doing as they are told.  Creating
>a feeling.

  Can you spell *S-H-A-M-E-L-E-S-S  P-R-O-P-A-G-A-N-D-A*?

>Audiences who are bused into the studio to see live tapings of SUSAN often
>end up demanding early exit. 

  ROFL!!!!!!!!!! 

> The smart ones at WARNER BROS. know it;
>Littlefield, in private moments, must concede that the undefinable 'magic'
>element is missing -- once referred to as talent.
[snip]

  LOL!!!!!!!!!!

>Meanwhile, calling it all performance; calling it art.  I call them
>disasters if the laugh tracks don't start.<

  The man's a poet, too!

>("Unfriendly alert.  Quick!  Call the LAPD -- revoke Drudge's press
>credentials.  Or better yet, lock him in a room full of possessed dalmatians")

  Talk about the LAPD . . . didja know that morbidly-obese, one-time
park ranger Police Chief Willie Williams was 200 hour short of
completing BASIC POLICE TRAINING when he was hired to lead one of the
country's largest, most complex police forces?
  I mean, as per the truly incredible, fact-filled expose of Williams
in the Nov. 14-20 issue of the tabloid "New Times Los Angeles" (like
"The Village Voice," only different), "In fact, were it not for a
special state law passed in 1993 solely for Williams, he would still
not be allowed to carry a gun as chief because he has not completed
required training."
  The article, which I've provided more choice quotes from and posted
in the la.general, la.news, ca.general and ca.news newsgroups, also
describes a HILARIOUS telephone conversation which an exasperated
Mayor Riordan had with the chief after the Northridge earthquake, when
the police chief of Los Angeles failed to come to work for HOURS
before the stunned Mayor sent a posse to go get him.

>________________________________
>Filed By Matt Drudge
>11/25/96 08:25 UTC
>The REPORT is issued when circumstances warrant.
>Information contained in this report is believed to be truthful and is moved
>for private recreational use only.
>All comments:  drudge@lainet.com
>http://www.lainet.com/~drudge
>P.O. BOX 1171, Hollywood, CA 90028
>(c)DRUDGE REPORT 1996  not for reproduction without permission of the author







From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 06:36:27 PST 1996
Article: 114014 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.radical-left
Subject: Re: ZAIRE: like Vietnam, only w/the ebola virus
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 23:12:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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ron.schwarz[at]nethawk.com (Delete spam-buster ([at]) to reply) wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Nov 1996 08:56:09 GMT, joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>>  Gee, I guess the fact that The SPOTLIGHT has been the first major
>>news publication to report scores and scores of important news items
>>which only later were picked up and widely publicized by the
>>mainstream corporate liberal media means nothing to people such as
>>yourself.
>>  One day, however, you'll take off your blinders, methinks, and
>>realize that, while The SPOTLIGHT isn't The Gospel on every single
>>issue, it certainly *DOES* have an enviable record in investigative
>>journalism.
>>  This isn't to say that the Liberal -- or Conservatve --
>>Establishments would EVER acknowledge the fine work its staff performs
>>regularly.

>The problem with the Spotlight is not the occasional valid scoops they
>deliver -- the problem with the Spotlight is the way they repeatedly
>discredit themselves with their obsession with da jooooooos.

  Granted, this is a widespread misconception among many who don't
actually READ the publication. 
  However, as one who *myself* admittedly personally avoided it for
many years, then finally bought one issue (out of curiousity) at one
of those curbside do-it-yourself newspaper machines, I really began to
re-evaluate my previous dismissal of it.
  I genuinely consider it to be one of the most interesting
publications in America -- certainly the best weekly newspaper.
  The investigative work of it's staff is unequalled, IMO.
  Further, it overtly describes its outlook as "populist" while having
little positive to say about both "liberalism" and "conservatism."
  The current issue (11/25/96), for example, contains a special yellow
"wrap" devoted to the JFK assassination.
  Recall, too, that some of the best-known researchers in the JFK
assassination filed -- Mark Lane and Fletcher Prouty ("Mr. X," played
by Donald Sutherland, in Oliver Stone's "JFK), for example -- have
long been associated with the publication in one way or other.




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 07:29:10 PST 1996
Article: 114270 of news.admin.net-abuse.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.org.nsa,alt.politics.org.cia,alt.politics.org.fbi,news.admin.net-abuse.misc
Subject: Re: The Rosenbergs revisited?
Date: Thu, 21 Nov 1996 09:23:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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Message-ID: <57147e$9gl@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>
References:  <56l37f$pfj@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <32a24065.6199235@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <56p7n6$251@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <32947cba.683129@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
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w4crypto@ix.netcom.com (Walter Gould) wrote:

>	Based on your expressed paranoia, all of the ".conspiracy."
>newsgroups were probably "on topic".

  How unfortunate that you find it necessary to engage in amateur
psychologizing, Mr. Gould.
  Especially for one who *himself* admittedly suffers from a serious
physical disability -- at least, that's what you indicated to me in a
message some time ago -- I find it disconcerting that you would make
light of the genuine medical condition known as "paranoia."
  Do you also call people with whom you disagree "retards"?
  Moreover, please be advised that I have absolutely NO intention of
ever consulting you as to whether any of the groups to which I may
choose to post is "on" or "off" topic.

>	Mr. Joebuck:  You are on notice that email from you on this
>thread, or the other threads on this newsgroup, is NOT desired by me,
>and will be considered as harassment.  Please keep your comments here
>in this newsgroup.

  Mr. Gould, what's the purpose of the above? 
  Are you trying a variation on the "Do you still beat your wife?"
technique, in which one asks a question, or makes a statement, which
one already knows has no basis in fact? 
  *IF* I had sent you ANY email whatsoever it would make sense.
  However, since both of us know that I have NOT emailed ANYTHING to 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
you whatsoever, your baseless warning comes across as the product of 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
an arrogant, petty, physically-challenged little man.
  Further, please note that I hereby put YOU on notice that any email
>from  you to ME is not only not desired but will be viewed as
harrassment.





From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 07:39:01 PST 1996
Article: 131220 of soc.culture.african.american
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,soc.culture.african.american,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.clinton,alt.president.clinton,alt.current-events.usa,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d
Subject: Re: Martin Luther King Supported Affirmative Action (was: ---> The Jelly Bean Scholarship <---
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:46:30 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 5
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  Look, the only justifiable result of the claim that MLK did, indeed,
support "affirmative-action" (aka "outrageous discrimination") is to
remove his name from all public buildings (e.g. hospitals, schools)
which now bear it.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 08:07:29 PST 1996
Article: 82039 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 23:38:33 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 10
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  Look, the burden is decidedly NOT on Mr. Demjanjuk to prove he
WASN'T "Ivan the Terrible" -- *THAT* he already successfully did, in
an Israeli court of law, no less.
  Thus, writing a subject line such as the above, "Demjanjuk: Can his
defenders document their cliams?" is entirely innapropriate.
  Seems to me Mr. Demjanjuk's Israeli lawyer ALREADY documented his
client's claims of innocence.
  
  



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 09:36:27 PST 1996
Article: 513998 of talk.politics.misc
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.elections,talk.environment,alt.fan.newt-gingrich,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.impeach.clinton,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.society.labor-unions,alt.president.clinton,alt.politics.usa.republican,alt.politics.usa.newt-gingrich,alt.politics.usa.misc,alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.politics.usa.congress,alt.politics.reform,alt.politics.media,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.democrats.d,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.clinton,alt.news-media,alt.journalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy,alt.current-events.usa,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.california,alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.perot
Subject: Re: INS Agent: Illegal Alien Criminals May Have Made the Difference in Dornan Race
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 00:11:39 GMT
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ron.schwarz[at]nethawk.com (Delete spam-buster ([at]) to reply) wrote:

>Also interesting is that the "winner", unless i'm mistaken, is
>hispanic in name only.

  Well, Loretta Sanchez *is* Mexican-American. Her husband, "Stephen
Brixey III" -- the one who was arrested during the campaign after
being caught red-handed tearing down the posters of his wife's
opponent -- is not.
  Prior to her Congressional race, she was known as "Loretta Brixey."
  The couple actually own a home in ultra-liberal Los Angeles -- NOT
in the middle-class Orange County area where she ran for Congress,
incidentally.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 26 09:48:38 PST 1996
Article: 114052 of alt.conspiracy
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.webspan.net!ix.netcom.com!news
From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: la.news,la.general,ca.news,ca.general,alt.journalism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: 'THAT CONVERSATION DOESN'T LEAVE THIS ROOM': Mayor's warning
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 05:14:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 15
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joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:

>  [What follows is 1/2 of the INCREDIBLE conversation between the
>mayor of Los Angeles, California and the city's police chief after a
>major nasural disaster
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Although I have no doubt that some Angelenos indeed
suffered nasal contusions when books, crucifixes and mezzuzas 
fell on top of them during their city's 1994 earthquake, what I
meant to write above was "natural disaster." 
                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^

:-)




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:50 PST 1996
Article: 82078 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 03:21:35 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
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jars@coho.halcyon.com (Juan Rodriguez) wrote:

>AND HE PERJURED HIMSELF when asked about that in his
>immigration proceedings first, and later in his naturalization proceedings. 

Mr. Juan Rodriguez,

  I can't tell you how happy I am that you have an interest in
strictly enforcing the immigration laws of the United States (at least
when it comes to John Demjanjuk)!
  I suspect many of the participants in the alt.california and
alt.politics immigration newsgroups would welcome such an
immigration-law stickler as yourself to join them in their struggle to
ensure that the country's immigration laws are enforced.
  Also, you may find the Voice of Citzens Together (VCT) web site of
interest.

  -- JB



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 28 07:01:51 PST 1996
Article: 82144 of alt.revisionism
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: soc.culture.ukrainian,soc.culture.baltics,soc.culture.israel,soc.culture.jewish,alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.fan.g-gordon-liddy
Subject: Re: Demjanjuk: Can His Defenders Document Their Claims?
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 08:21:15 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 19
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Alan Miles  wrote:

>joebuck@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>   BTW, where's the American Civil Liberties Union in all this?
>>   Why haven't they come to the aid of Mr. Demjanjuk?
>>   They couldn't be guilty of HYPOCRISY, could they?

>The ACLU is a notorious defender of Nazis.  Haven't you heard of
>Skokie?  The Demjanjuk case might seem pretty poor to them.  It does to
>me.

  Well, in light of the fact that the ACLU supposedly is a defender of
individual liberties, and Mr. Demjanjuk is an individual who's rights
were trampled on when his citzenship was revoked and he was kidnapped
to Israel  -- all in a high-profile case -- I thought the organzation
would be interested in defending his rights.



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 28 10:48:21 PST 1996
Article: 114756 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater,alt.journalism,alt.news-media,alt.politics,alt.politics.clinton,alt.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.media,alt.politics.usa.republican,dc.politics
Subject: Re: The Internet vs. The Big Media (Fostergate)
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 19:48:54 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <57i350$e7g@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
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Frederick  wrote:
[snip]
>My main complaints are:
 . . . 
>2. The Internet is under massive attack by unethical spammers and
>ignorant uneducated posters.

  What of the possibility that some of the spamming that goes on is
being perpetrated by forces whose secret agenda is to ultimately have
the Net regulated to death?
  Totalitarians abhor "chaos" more than anything. Marx abhorred what
he termed "the chaos of the marketplace." Net antagonists may be
encouraging spamming/bad Internet behavior in order to be able to
point and say, "See? Such an unregulated, 'chaotic nut-house' as the
Internet could never 'work.' It needs to be REGULATED." 



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 28 11:21:06 PST 1996
Article: 57092 of alt.discrimination
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: alt.politics.equality,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.correct,alt.california,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.perot,alt.politics.immigration,california.news,california.general,alt.politics.usa.republican
Subject: Re: Time for Pro-209ers to take to streets?
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:18:41 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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cryofan@brokersys.com (Randy) wrote:

>Looks like the fix is in for the judicial review of 209. It seems that
>Thelton Henderson, the judge reviewing the anti-209ers case, is a
>black liberal and a former "civil-rights" attorney.

  In today's paper the reporter actually wrote that well-known liberal
Judge Thelton Henderson was "antagonistic" -- that's right,
"A-N-T-A-G-O-N-I-S-T-I-C" -- to The People's attorneys (i.e. the
pro-Prop-209 peoples) at yesterday's hearing. 
  Remember, moreover, that this Prop 209 case was supposed to go to a
*different* judge who lacks Henderson's well-established liberal
history, but he personally decided to take it and also several
anti-209 groups (ultimately successfully, we now see) lobbied just a
few days after Prop 209's passage to have the case moved to him.
  Honestly, it looks like the California voters wishes, as expressed
in force at the ballot box Nov. 5, will trampled on in the courts,
just like what happened with Prop 187, which was approved by the
voters but which nevertheless never saw the light of day.
  Who the hell are we to think our votes mean anything? :-(




From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 30 11:40:44 PST 1996
Article: 114820 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com
Newsgroups: la.news,la.general,ca.news,ca.general,alt.journalism,alt.conspiracy
Subject: 'THAT CONVERSATION DOESN'T LEAVE THIS ROOM': Mayor's warning
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 04:35:52 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 84
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.journalism:63144 alt.conspiracy:114820

  [What follows is 1/2 of the INCREDIBLE conversation between the
mayor of Los Angeles, California and the city's police chief after a
major nasural disaster, as reported in New Times Los Angeles. You may
wish to skip down to the actual dialogue, then return to read the
intro below.]

  In early 1994 the City of Los Angeles suffered a major earthquake.
Freeways and buildings collapsed all over Southern California (e.g the
electric scoreboard at Angels Stadium in Orange County, an hour's
drive from downtown L.A. and across the street from Disneyland, fell.)
  The following is from investigative journalist Jill Stewart's
fascinating expose of Los Angeles Police Chief Willie Williams
[salary: $160,000] titled "Officer Down" which appears in the Nov.
14-20 issue of New Times Los Angeles, kind of an LA Weekly/Village
Voice tabloid, only better reported and written (IMO).

Begin quote:

  "Dawn had broken in the second hour after the Northridge earthquake
in 1994 when Mayor Richard Riordan, Fire Department Chief Don Manning,
Los Angeles Police Department brass, city bureaucrats and sleepy
journalists gathered in the chilly underground Emergency Operations
Command Center four stories below the downtown Civic Center to begin
the work of guiding the badly rattled city through its worst natural
disaster in decades. As the still-shaken group conducted an informal
head count of those present, somebody inquired, 'Has anyone seen the
chief?' 
  "It was unnerving that Police Chief Willie L. Williams had not yet
arrived. Williams name tops the list of officials alerted to
immediately respond to disasters, but his home in Woodland Hills was
near the quake's epicenter, and the extent of the damage in his
neigborhood was still unknown. Some officials had managed to drive in
>from  the west valley, but Williams was not one of them.
  "Mayor Richard Riordan, according to those present, used a cellular
phone to call Williams's home, and Williams himself answered. Three
observers present reconstructed the following single-sided
conversation:

                  "Chief? It's Dick Riordan. Is everybody all right   
                   there?" (Pause.)

                   "I understand." (Pause.)

                   "I'm sorry your wife is scared. But we do need you 
                   down here."  (Pause.) 
            
                   "Chief, this is a crisis for the whole city. We

                    could have deaths. There could be panic and 
                    looting." (Pause.)  

                    "It's your job to be here." (Pause.) 

                     "We're going to come to get you."

  "Riordan hung up and ordered a helicopter to retrieve the chief.
Then he surveyed the stunned faces staring back at him, and quietly
said, 

              'That conversation doesn't leave this room. If people

               hear about the chief, it could tear this city apart.'

  "And the incident, until now, has never become public. The
journalists present stayed mum, and LAPD officials who went to
Williams home by both car and helicopter to pick him up kept it to
themselves . . . But eventually, many of the department's rank and
file heard the strange story of how Williams was absent from his post
for six hours during one of the worst crises in the city's history.   
  Recalls one officer who drove to Williams's residence more than once
in efforts to retieve him that day: 'When the chief finally came out
hours later, he told us he couldn't leave because an armoire almost
fell on his wife. I'm thinking, WHAT'S THIS? Officers' spouses were
injured. Officers left behind their terrified children. You patch up
the family, get in the car, and get to your job -- or you don't have a
job. What kind of man is this?' 
  "Such veiling of the real Willie Williams from public view continues
today."
  



   



From joebuck@ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 30 11:40:45 PST 1996
Article: 115395 of alt.conspiracy
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From: joebuck@ix.netcom.com (JoeBuck)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.rush-limbaugh
Subject: FWD: New Dead Body
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 05:14:18 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <57od1k$g9p@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>
References: <849297265.21494@dejanews.com>
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bhorne@bsu.idbsu.edu wrote:

>    Well, for the people that still haven't seen it -

>          A dead body was found at 7:45 AM this morning (Friday, Nov.
>    29, 1996) in the Department of Commerce in Washington, D.C.  You
>    know, the....

>          "Department of Commerce", former home of Ron Brown and
>     John Huang, etc, etc, etc.

>    The body has been described on CNN this morning as "a woman, an
>    administrative assistant for the International Trade Administration",
>    yada, yada, yada.

>    You know, an "administrative assistant", the kind of person that
>    would have access to all kinds of papers and stuff about 
>    "international trade" and "commerce" and such.

>    No doubt the story will evolve into something along the lines of
>    "choked on a turkey sandwich" while "doing overtime work" during
>    Thanksgiving night.   Yeah, right.  Spare me.  

>    In yet another of the surprising coincidences, errors, blunders,
>    misstatements, etc, that we've all come to expect of our Arkansas
>    Clowns....

>    In the fifteen minutes prior to the "dead body" announcement, CNN
>    carried a clip about how President Clinton was making an 

>                         "unexpected"

>    return trip to the White House.  It was widely thought that he would
>    be spending the entire weekend at Camp David.

>    When this story first played, our brave and intrepid reporters
>    on the scene were "baffled" by this "unannounced" return trip.  The
>    President's advisors didn't have a clue, either.

>    Of course, now that a few hours have passed, the story has changed
>    to imply that Clinton's return trip was a routine checkup on papers
>    and such as he is working on his Inaugural Address.

>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
>      http://www.dejanews.com/     Search, Read, Post to Usenet





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