The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/mcvay.ken/2001/knoll

From Mon Dec 17 14:12:35 EST 2001
Article: 1288898 of alt.revisionism
Message-ID: <>
From: Werner Knoll 
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD472  (Win98; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,us.politics
Subject: Re: The blatant double standards of Richard Phillips
References:   <>  <> <0_QS7.13312$> <>  <>  <>  <>  <>  <>  <>  <>  <> <>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Lines: 234
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:12:33 GMT
X-Trace: 1008609153 (Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:12:33 MST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 10:12:33 MST
Xref: alt.revisionism:1288898 can.politics:618100 us.politics:84773

>From Thu Aug 10 11:35:37 2000
Date: 10 Aug 2000 17:35:37 -0000
Subject: Visit/Call Them!!!   NIZKOOK/NAMBLA COMBINED List
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism

Kenneth McVay, SOBC the well-known fag in Canada,
Fag McVay of Vancouver, also a convicted car thief and
all round molester, convicted of child molesting and car theft 
in California and Oregon, and still unemployed  gas pump boy,
mastermind of the Canadian branch of NAMBLA,
wants all to know about all his fellow criminals and perverts.
Here is the latest.......

Here are some known NAMBLA members, their addresses, and phone 
numbers from an official NAMBLA membership list.  
Please note that this does not mean that these individuals have 
assaulted children...only that they were 
registered as a member of NAMBLA.

Any additions or corrections  email 
Last update 12-12-00

Do not contact personally. They are entitled to their privacy.

NAMBLA/NIZKOR leadership

President:  Jeffrey G. Brown (Cincinnati,OH)
Note: Jeffrey G. Brown may not be his real name
Vice-President: Patrick L. Humphrey (Houston,TX)
Press Secretary: Joel Rosenberg (Minneapolis,MN)
Secretary & Lesbian Relations: Sara Salzman (Denver,CO)
Canadian Operations: Ken McVay (Vancouver Island,BC)
German Operations:  Albrecht Kolthoff
Australian Operations:  Tremaine Devereaux
Minority Relations:  Fragano Ledgister
Legal Counsel:  Yale F. Edeiken
Youth Leader: David Beam
Board Members:  John Morris, Steve Wolk, Jay Winkler, Gord McFee, 
David Beam, Scot Murphy (fetish for sex with dead people), 
Charles Tucker, David Gehrig

Note: John Morris wrote he has nothing to do with NAMBLA?
Associate Members:

Eugene Holman
Harjukatu 6 B 48
00500 Helsinki
Tel +358 9 1912 3154
Tel +358 9 1912 3072

Eugene Holman wrote:
> In article <>, Richard Phillips
>  wrote:
> > ==========================================
> > Phillips
> >
> > Your point is not entirely without merit but fails in that it does not take
> > proper
> > account of the differing circumstances in the two situations.
> >
> > (1) IF the Nazis HAD determined on the physical extermination of the Jews,
> > they would
> > have been at no great pains to conceal it.
> =====================================================
> At first they didn't. The massacres committed by the Einsatzkommandos
> in conjunction with the SP, SD, and local fascist groupings such as the
> Arājs Commando at Babi Yar, Rumbula, Kovno (Kaunas), and Liepaja were
> done in full public view, even to the point  of being photographed
> (e.g.  and
> filmed by th Nazis for purposes of propagdana and debriefing, between
> June 22 and December 31, 1941.
> Reasons for developng a more subtle approach included the following:
> 1. The Nazis found that Eastern Europeans, even if some of them
> harbored a virulent anti-Semitic world view, were not into it to such a
> degree that they were willing to involve themselves in dedicated
> exterminational activity against their neighbors and compatriots. In
> Lithuania and, to a far lesser extent in Latvia, for example, the Nazis
> were initially able to provoke pogroms directed against Jews in general
> as "payback" for the past year those unfortunate countries had spent
> under communist rule. It soon became clear, however, that exacting
> revenge against the subset of local Jews who had collaborated with,
> worked for, or publicly supported the Soviet government was not the
> same thing as killing all local Jews, which was what the Nazis were
> doing, encouraging the locals to follow their example. All three Baltic
> countries had people such as the Lithuanian Jonas Paulavicius, the
> Latvian Jan Lipke, and the Estonian Uko Masing who risked their lives
> to save Jews from Nazi exterminational policies, see, e.g.
> );
> 2. Many Eastern Europeans, particularly Poles, Russians, Belarussians,
> Ukrainians, and Latvians, eventually realized that they were not much
> higher on the Nazis' racial hierarchy than Jews or Gypsies. Realizing
> that the Nazis were interested in gaining "Lebensraum" by eastward
> expanion, they understood that they were likely candidates for the next
> round of Nazi ethnic cleansing.
> 3. Public mass shootings and hangings of Jews during the latter half of
> 1941, particularly of women, children, and babies, made it difficult
> for the Nazis to gain respectable supporters among the populations in
> the occupied countries (see
> ).
> > To begin with, up until well
> > in1943 they
> > were pretty certain they were going to win. Secondly, they had been talking
> > about Jews
> > as subhuman vermin and suchlike terms of endearment.
> But long before that they realized that public mass murders of Jewish
> civilians did not generate the enthusiasm they had thought it would,
> and that such a policy was only sustainable behind the close doors and
> walls of specially built facilities. Indeed, the planning for these
> facilities must have dated from the first weeks of the beginning of
> ther campaigna against the USSR, since the first dedicated
> extermination facility, Chelmno, opened for business on December 6,
> 1941.
> > Eisenhower, on the other hand, most certainly did NOT want it to be public
> > knowledge
> > that he had allowed himself to be a tool of Jewish vengeance.
> Gee, unh, Jewish vengeance for what?
> > He had already
> > then
> > political ambitions and knew this would not do him any good. You have to
> > remember that,
> > at that time, the ordinary American felt that Jewish power in the Roosevelt
> > government
> > was much much greater than it had any business to be. That there were
> > undertones of
> > this in the 1944 presidential campaign could hardly be denied. American
> > civilians had
> > strong notions about the proper treatment of war prisoners and would not have
> > looked at
> > all kindly on German prisoners getting anything less.
> By 1944 the American public had some idea of what had been going on at
> the Nazi concentration camps, and by early 1945 the newsreels and
> photographs of stacks of emaciated corpses and of walking skeletons
> were widely known. Months before the war was over the public understood
> that the Nazis had been waging systematic genocide, and there were
> calls for revenge.
> > (2) Eisenhower's orders regarding the feeding or non-feeding of German
> > prisoners dd not
> > require any enormous diversion of resources for a war effort. The
> > extermination of Jews
> > most certainly would have.
> >
> > ==========================================
> Your second statement reveals a total lack of understanding of the
> economics of the Holocaust.
> The extermination of the Jews consisted, roughly, or two phases:
> I - June 22, 1941 to January, 1942
> Extermination was done publicly and on a massive scale on the Eastern
> front, with no regard to the human resources that the Jews represented.
> Jews were killed publicly, and their property and assets were
> confiscated by the state. Valuables concealed on their person,
> including gold teeth and wedding rings, were not considered worth
> spending time looking for or seizing.
> II - January, 1942 to May, 1945
> Dedicated extermination is done behind closed doors at specially built
> facilities, mostly in Nazi-occupied Poland. Extermination by work is
> done behind closed doors at more than 10,000 facilities all over
> Nazi-controlled Europe. This program required an enormous and well
> documented diversion of funds and resources from the war effort because
> the camps had to be built and maintained, rational train schedules had
> to be drawn uop to ensure a steady and manageable stream of victims,
> and appropriate rollling stick had to be provided, guarded, cleaned,
> and sent on to the next place to be evacuated, and a large bureaucracy,
> Division IV at the RSHA, had to coordinate the program which extended
> from Greece to Norway and from the Netherlands to Finland, Denmark,
> Hungary, and Romania. Looked at from the short term and in isolation,
> the program seems to have been a wasteful and dysfunctional use of
> resources, but looked at more carefully, it paid its way and generated
> a profit:
> 1. The dirty work was done behind closed doors, thus improving public
> relations.
> 2. Those Jews who had nothing to contribute were exterminated shortly
> after arrival, those who could make an economic contribution to the
> German war effort were spared for as long as their output exceeded
> their upkeep.
> 3. The goal of capturing and killing Jews was never abandoned; indeed,
> Jews were made to literally work themselves to death manufacturing
> armaments and other materiel which would enable Nazi Germany to
> capture, kill, and eenslave more Jews.
> 4. Jews were also put to work in the gas chambers as Sonderkommandos
> and other service personnel, translating orders, helping victims to
> undress, convincing them in their own language that they were going to
> undergo a harmless delousing, and then clearing out the dead bodies and
> examining them carefully for gold teeth and hidden valuables.
> A rough comparison of the relative profitablity of the two modalities
> can be seen by considering the following.
> When 24,000 Riga Jews were killed in the Rumbula massacre of November
> 30, December 8, 1941, the local factories to whom the Jews in the
> ghetto had been farmed out lost a valuable source of virtually free
> labor just before the onset of winter when they would have been really
> needed to produce winter clothing and boots which the Germans had not
> thought they would be needing for the Russian campaign. The Latvian
> capital also lost most of its physicians, dentists, academics, artists,
> and leading businessmen in addition to normal industrial workers. Their
> homes were auctioned off, and their clothing and the valuables
> collected by the Germans at the killing site were washed, classified,
> and sent back to Germany.
> The profitability of the revised killing plan made it possible for
> Treblinka commander Franz Stengel to exterminate some 700,000 people at
> his camp according to a schedule carefully drawn up and implemented by
> Eichmann's Department IV of the RSHA in conjunction with the Deutsche
> Reichsbahn, in addition to making deposits in SS bank accounts of
> $2,800,000, £400,000, SUR 12,000,000, 145 kilograms of gold, and 4,000
> carats of diamonds (See:
> stolen by the Nazis
> from the Treblinka victims. Additionally, their clothing, homes, and
> other valuables were confiscated by the Nazi state and either sold at
> their points of origin or sent to Germany and distributed to the
> victims of Allied bombings.
> --
> Regards,
> Eugene Holman

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.