The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/mcvay.ken/1996/put-up-or-shut-up-giwer

Subject: Put up or shut up, Mr. Giwer: The Himmler tape
Date: 22 Aug 1996 14:48:35 -0700
From: (Ken McVay OBC)
Message-ID: <>
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
References: <4veimi$> <4vggrj$>

In article <4vggrj$>, (Yale F. Edeiken) responded to Matt Giwer's
denial of the authenticity of the Himmler tape:

>The National Archives which hs the original says differently, of
>course.  But what do they know.

If Mr. Giwer is prepared to pay the full cost of voiceprint
analysis of the disputed tape and adequate control
samples, should scientific analysis demonstrate that the tape
is a genuine recording of Heinrich Himmler, the Nizkor Project
is prepared to negotiate and conclude a legally binding
agreement for the purpose of determining the authenticity of
the recording.

Mr. Giwer, upon agreement to participate, shall deposit the
full cost of the laboratory analysis, as specified by the
laboratory chosen to perform the test, with a recognized trust

If the recording is determined to be genuine by reasonable
scientific standards, Mr. Giwer will agree to the immediate
release of the trust funds to the San Antonio Area Foundation
Nizkor Fund as a tax-exempt donation. If the recording is
determined to be fraudulent by reasonable scientific standards,
the trust funds will be returned to Mr. Giwer immediately, and the
Nizkor Project will immediately tender reasonable interest on
the full amount to Mr. Giwer, and meet the cost of
establishing and maintaining the trust account. In no event
shall either the trust fund or either party's liability exceed

Mr. Giwer is invited to have his attorney contact me to
initiate negotiations leading to the conclusion of such an
agreement. (For the purposes of this offer, and subsequent
agreement, I designate Mr. Edeiken as my attorney of record,
and hereby authorize him to negotiate this matter in my name
and to bill me for appropriate professional fees.
Should Mr. Edeiken decline this task, I shall designate
another American attorney to act in my name.)

The appropriate phrase at this point would seem to be "Put up,
or shut up, Mr. Giwer."

Mr. Giwer, of course, is unlikely to accept this offer, as....

...he is, as far as I can determine, a troller whose only
interest is in causing fights.  While he can sound superficially
plausible, he has lied about what has been said in exchanges (while
accusing others of lying), refused to document claims, pretended not to
see posts which contain documented refutation of his claims (even when
they have been emailed to him), engaged in actual libel, and generally
conducted himself with such complete lack of intellectual and factual
integrity that there seems to be no point in taking the time to read and
respond.  For detailed and documented evidence of this, please refer to


Followups to Giwer trolls should be redirected to Mr. Giwer's special
newsgroup, alt.bonehead.matt-giwer, where they will be appropriately
ignored. If your site does not carry alt.bonehead.matt-giwer,
redirect non-Holocaust articles to alt.politics.white-power,
an equally vapid dumping ground for Giwerundian babblings.

Nizkor Canada          |
-----------------------| Remember John Hron

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.