The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/mccarthy.jamie/1997/mccarthy.9708

From Thu Aug 21 11:38:25 EDT 1997
Article: 134147 of alt.revisionism
From: (Jamie McCarthy)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Why Does Nizkor Archive Posts In This Newsgroup?
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 11:50:52 -0400
Organization: None
Lines: 148
References: <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Xref: alt.revisionism:134147

There are a lot of errors and misstatements about Nizkor and its
intentions in this article by DThomas.  I don't really have time to
correct them all;  I'd prefer to spend time talking about the historical
facts of the Holocaust.

I'd like to point out that Nizkor archives _all_ posts to this group,
and has done so since January.  Before this, Nizkor archived threads in
this group which involved particular people, mostly deniers.  In
general, entire threads were archived, contrary to the claim that things
were only archived "with no full context."

Let me just give one example of why Nizkor archives posts in this
newsgroup.  A case in point.

Fred Leuchter lied under oath about having worked with two prison
wardens, as revealed in  the
Leuchter FAQ.  In July, DThomas commented:

> To say that the prisons he worked with never heard of him is flatly
> untrue.

How do we decide whether DThomas is telling the truth?  Well, right now
it's Leuchter's word against that of two wardens, and considering
Leuchter didn't get either of their names right, the presumption would
be that, indeed, he never worked with them.

Next we should investigate what evidence DThomas has to the contrary. 
He hasn't bothered to tell us what that evidence might be, so we proceed
to the next step (which actually was done in 1995):  we have to look to
see what evidence Leuchter himself might have to contradict the wardens'
denials.  It stands to reason that Leuchter might have a note on prison
letterhead, or maybe, since he said that he worked mostly verbally, just
a phone bill showing that he called them.

Well, Leuchter himself dropped out of sight in early 1994, but in
January 1995, CODOH official Ross Vicksell contacted Leuchter's attorney
to see whether there might be a phone log, or a scrap of paper, or
_anything_ to indicate that maybe, just maybe, Leuchter might be telling
the truth.

Vicksell posted a comment in March 1995 indicating that the attorney had
no such evidence.

Unfortunately, because Nizkor's archiving was not working thoroughly at
the time, this statement was not archived.

All we have (that I've been able to uncover so far) is Richard Schultz's
comment a few days later:

   So not only is Leuchter an admitted liar, but he also admits that
   he attempted to blackmail people into doing business with him. 

and John Morris' comment:

   I am saying this through clenched teeth, but credit where credit
   is due. Ross didn't have to publish any of this, and it's pretty
   gutsy, if you ask me, to post information about someone you have
   supported knowing that the information would pretty much strip
   that someone of their last shreds of credibility.

But the actual article itself, that strips Leuchter of his last shreds
of credibility, has been lost, because Nizkor did not have the resources
at the time to archive every single alt.revisionism post.  That's a
great pity.  Information about Leuchter's credibility has been lost,
possibly forever.  (I can guarantee that the existing officials of CODOH
are not going to contact the attorney and repeat the embarrassing
experiment!)  What we needed was more archiving, not less.

But I can understand how, in this instance and in general, people like
DThomas would prefer that such information be swept under the rug.
Far better that the world forget the string of embarrassing episodes
where "revisionists" are shown to be wrong, time and time again.

So that, in a nutshell, is why Nizkor archives postings, as many as
possible.  I'm only sorry we weren't faster about ramping up that effort
and didn't get more of them -- such as the missing Vicksell post in

The reader can judge for himself or herself whether this archiving of
public information is deserving of DThomas's judgements:

> puffed up moral cowboy herding his own species of sacred cattle

> Hall of Smears

> close to as low as human activity can get

> spying and blacklisting efforts

> filthy attacks

> slimey activity

> stifle legitimate discussion

> their Stalinist-like activities
> (I don't doubt for a moment that the dedicated among them would give
> their own parents up to the wolves, as children did in Russia)

> such trashy hangers-on as Nizkor

After absorbing those descriptions, the reader should closely examine
DThomas's last paragraph.  According to him, Nizkor's archiving posts by
white revisionists is one link in a chain which leads to:

> a sharp level of domestic
> suppression and eventually a third world war. 

I'm not making that up.  See the original article, where he refers to
the "multi-ethnic minority" (Jews, I suppose) attacking the
non-multi-ethnic "majority" (whites, I assume).  Here's the whole
paragraph in question:

> Old Friedrich might have been cracked at the last, but it looks like
> another of his prophecies is coming true -- Europeans and now Americans
> are becoming like a large herd of sheep.  If that's the case, then my
> bitches have no basis because we deserve what we allow, and the wolves
> soon won't need such trashy hangers-on as Nizkor to set their agendas in
> place. I can't say that there's anything overtly illegal about this
> successful imposition of the political will of a multi-ethnic minority
> on the majority. The system is there for anyone to use, and we ignore it
> at our own peril, which in this case will be a sharp level of domestic
> suppression and eventually a third world war. It's looking as if the
> apocalyptic fundamentalists had it figured out all along, if outcome is
> proof of method. Which it isn't.


Finally, I remind DThomas that we are still waiting for him to address
the matters of Friedrich Berg's and Fred Leuchter's arguments about the
Holocaust, which he has defended and says he's still willing to defend. 
He has refused to address the point-by-point analysis which has been
repeatedly posted by myself and others.  I will be happy to email him
this analysis, or a digest thereof, to refresh his memory.

Anytime he would care to address the issues he has raised regarding the
facts of the Holocaust, instead of rambling about the actions of "a
multi-ethnic minority," I stand ready.

 Jamie McCarthy                           
   fan of:

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