The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/martin.willie/13texan-list/13texan.9909-02


Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:21:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1379
> In a message dated 9/19/99 1:03:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << He reviles you, and people who believe as you do. You are a garden
>  variety hater, anathema to all good people, Christian and
non-Christian.
>  Philip Mathews >>
>

>
> Well, Bible scholar, were does it say that? Or are you reading the
mind of
> Jesus Christ, the creator of this world?

He speaks to me. Doesn't he speak to you?

Now stop this silliness and get about answering the open questions
you've been running from about the the Nazi beliefs about the Christian
church and the parallels between Nazism and Zionism. Or is it too
taxing for you?

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:22:54 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1380
> Philip,
>           FICTION

Typical denier. Can't deal with the evidence, so he claims it's all
fake, hoping people don't notice along the way how idiotic that line of
defense is!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] 20 SS Men Testify About Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:20:29 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SS men Baretzki, Lucas, Kaduk, Stark, Hoffman, Broad, Klehr, Morgen,
Kremer, Mulka, Bock, Glaser, Hess, Heger, Siebald, Wildermuth, Wilks,
Wilhelmy, Hocker, Munch and others talk about the gassings in the
Auschwitz death camp.

Summarized from "Auschwitz: the Proceeding Against Mulka and Others",
by
Bernd Nauman. The book surveys the trial and recorded testimony of SS
men
and witnesses who served in Auschwitz. Like most post-war trials of
Nazi
criminals, this one was held not by the Allies, but by the German
government, according to the 1871 penal code. The trial lasted from
1963
to 1965.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Baretzki talks about the gassings at length. He tells a macabre tale,
which best describes what kind of a place Auschwitz was: one day, the
young son of SS officer Schwarzhuber walks through the camp to visit
his father. However, since one of the laws of Auschwitz is that
children
have to die, he wears a sign around his neck to identify himself. As
Baretzki says: "so they won't grab him, and into the gas with him".

Baretzki is annoyed that only the "little people" are standing trial:
"what could we do?". He asks SS-doctor Lucas to stop portraying
himself as a savior. He says Dr. Lucas sent 5,000 victims to the gas
chambers in one day, and now he claims to have helped people. Dr.
Lucas doesn't deny the accusation. Yes, he was forced to select on the
ramp (where the newcomers were sorted out - fit for work into the camp,
to be tattooed and enslaved, and the much larger group of the "unfit"
sent directly to be gassed). But he couldn't take it, and eventually
succeeded in having himself transferred. He says that while selecting,
he tried to classify as many people he could as fit, and save them from
being gassed immediately.

Kaduk insists that he never hit the victims he led into the gas
chambers. He is also upset, and shouts "we are being blamed for
everything, and the medics. The doctors and all these officers sent
them into the gas and now we are being made responsible. The last
ones get it in the neck, right?".

Stark admits to have gassed people in Krema I; he says Grabner forced
him to go on the roof and pour the Zyklon-B in. Grabner told him "if you
don't do it, you'll join them inside". Stark wasn't happy then - he
considered the use of gas "cowardly".

And Hoffman tells what a mess it was, when the people were pushed into
the chambers. He says the SS men had to watch out so that the working
prisoners wouldn't be gassed by mistake. And, yes, he admits to have
pushed people into the gas chambers. "Well, what were we supposed to
do? We were under orders". He explains that when no additional workers
were needed, whole transports were gassed, without any selection.

Broad tells at length about the gassing in Krema I; how Grabner
conducted it, and how a lorry was placed by, its engine running in
high pitch, to drown out the screams of those who were gassed
inside. He tells of how the single gas chamber wasn't sufficient
to handle the task, and about how the bigger gas chambers in Birkenau
were constructed and operated.

Klehr says he never poured the Zyklon-B in, he only drew up the
schedule for those who did it. He said he was forced to do so,
because so many transports were coming in, and there had to be
order; sometimes, a transport came and the execution had to be
wait until the men who were trained to pour the Zyklon-B in could
be found.

Many witnesses accused Klehr of murdering thousands of people with
phenol injections, during his stay at Auschwitz. No, he says, it was
only a few hundreds, and they were half-dead anyway. All those who
accuse him of killing numerous healthy people are lying, Klehr insists.

SS Judge, Dr. Konrad Morgen, says how shocked he was when he visited
Birkenau and learned of the mass gassings. He tells of how diabolically
the murder installations were set up, in an attempt to fool the victims,
so they will not suspect they are going to their death. Morgen, like
some other SS officers, claims he actually tried to stop the mass
murder. He was no less appalled at the fact that the SS executioners
were stealing the valuables of the victims.

And SS doctor Kremer tells how he selected victims to be killed by
phenol injections, and how he supervised gassings. He tells of how
the executioners were given extra rations of liquor and cigarettes.

SS man Hykes tells of how he was assigned to sort out the belongings of
the victims who were gassed.

Mulka says he is not guilty of anything. Although he was in charge of
all the traffic inside the camp, he couldn't have stopped the convoys
that drove the victims from the ramp to the gas chambers, because Hoss
(the commandant) would not hear of it. He says it was Wiegand who
ordered the huge trucks that were used to drive the victims in their
last journey, not him. Mulka says he had nothing to do with the gassing;
however, when judge Hofmeyer shows him a document authorizing to bring
Zyklon-B to the camp, he embarrassingly admits his signature is on it;
the deadly poison is described as "material for resettlement of Jews".

SS man Bock, who was a driver in the camp, testified that when the mass
gassings began, six huge trucks were acquired to drive the victims from
the ramp to the gas chambers. Prosecutor Kugler asks Mulka who proposed
the acquisition of these trucks. Mulka says that since Kugler insulted
him before, he will not answer the question.

Glaser, who was also a driver at Auschwitz, saw how the people were
taken to be gassed, but he doesn't know if Mulka ordered this.

Hess incriminates Mulka. Since Mulka was camp adjutant, he says, his
attempts to deny responsibility are "childish and naive". He also tells
of a gassing he saw at Krema I.

Heger, who was the driver of commandant Hoss, says that the orders to
take the victims to the gas chambers came from Hoss or Mulka.

Lorenz, another witness, is asked if he drove people from the ramp to
the gas chambers. He refuses to answer.

Siebald, another driver, says the orders to drive the people to the gas
chambers came from the commandant via the motor pool. Yes, he also drove
the people on their last journey, but he was just following the other
trucks.

Wildermuth also drove the people from the ramp to the gas chambers.
Three or four times, he says. He saw the corpses being burned.

Wilks also tells of a gassing he witnessed at Krema I. He, too, mentions
how the people who worked at the ramp and those who killed the "unfit"
in the gas chambers received extra rations. All the doctors worked on
the ramp, he says. They didn't gas the people, however, only watched
over those who opened the cans and poured the Zyklon-B inside:

"Why were they notified?"
"They were notified so they could do their job".
"What was their job?"
"Their job was to gas people".

Wilhelmy describes some gassings he witnessed at Krema I. He remembers
Theuer gassed the people once. Hoss was present at some gassings.

Hocker was camp adjutant for some time, after Mulka left. Yes, he knew
of the gassings, but didn't have anything with it: "all that happened
in camp II, with which I had nothing to do". Nobody in the camp ever
questioned the legality of the mass killing: the orders came from the
RSHA (Reich Main Security Office) and "whatever came from the RSHA was
legal order".

"Why did you think these unfortunate people were brought there?"
"Well, I thought because they endangered public safety".
"Could you possibly believe that innocent children were being murdered
 in order to protect the public against acts of violence?"
"Well, there were the Jews".
"Weren't they human beings?"
"Well, that was a political belief of the leadership, of Hitler. But
 all SS men had come to the conclusion that this was not the right way.
 But they did not have the power to change things".

SS medical officer Dr. Munch was sent to serve at Auschwitz in
mid-1943. He tells about how, a few days after his arrival, Dr. Wirths,
the chief medical officer, ordered him to report to the ramp and choose
victims for the gas chambers. This deeply disturbed Munch, and
eventually he succeeded in avoiding ramp duty; he asked a friend, the
head of the Hygienic Institute in Berlin, to intervene on his behalf.
The latter sent a teletype to the commandant of Auschwitz, and
consequently Munch was not assigned either to the selections or to the
gassings.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: 20 SS Men Testify About Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:05:45 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Fiction again
    Michael Snead
           14/abb
           ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:08:09 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/19/99 6:23:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Now stop this silliness and get about answering the open questions
 you've been running from about the the Nazi beliefs about the Christian
 church and the parallels between Nazism and Zionism. Or is it too
 taxing for you?

 Philip Mathews >>

Read past posts and you will see the answers on both counts.
Michael Snead
   14/abb
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:10:22 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/19/99 6:24:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Typical denier. Can't deal with the evidence, so he claims it's all
 fake, hoping people don't notice along the way how idiotic that line of
 defense is!


 Philip Mathews
  >>

Or the liar make up a bunch of stories to expand his lies a little further.
Michael Snead
14/abb
><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 1 by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:13:57 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

  I realize that I am an uninvited guest in this conversation, but if
you really want to know what we think of the HoloHoax and why we think so.
I am sending several posts to the list, and if you wish to read them then
so be it and then you decide for yourself; if you don't wish to read them
then simply delete them. Willie

    More Jewish Lies Exposed!

    For more than fifty years, since the end of World War II, the Talmudic,
Zionist Jews have sought to manipulate through Jewish Socialization, White
Western public opinion by crying, "Poor, persecuted Jew," while
systematically victimizing White Christian culture. This constitutes a
perfect description of the Jewish Socialization or Jewish Socialism. Both
atheistic, Jewish, Socialism and atheistic, Communist, Socialism are ideas
predicated upon the practice of engineering society along atheistic and
Jewish ideas. This has been the method of operation of the atheistic,
Talmudic, Zionist Jew even before the first century or the time of Christ.

    The atheistic Jew has relentlessly sought to impose his materialistic,
atheistic ideas upon the Western White man, both religious and political.
He has systematically invaded the White Man's schools of theology, seeking
to destroy any lingering first century ideas of Christianity, and in turn
pervert Christianity against itself, enabling the Jew to use Christianity
as a tool to destroy the White Race. Thus, Judeo-Christianity is nothing
more than Judaized versions of so-called Christianity. This becomes a tool
of the Jewish Socialist.

    "The Gnostics derived their leading doctrines and ideas from Plato and
Philo, the Zend-avesta, the Kabbalah, and the Sacred books of India and
Egypt; and thus introduced into the bosom of Christianity the cosmological
and theosophical speculations, which had formed the larger portion of the
ancient religions of the Orient, joined to those of the Egyptian, Greek,
and Jewish doctrines, which the Neo-Platonists had equally adopted in the
Occident..It is admitted that the cradle of Gnosticism is probably to be
looked for in Syria and even in Palestine. Most of its expounders wrote in
that corrupted form of the Greek used by the Hellenistic Jews...and there
was a striking analogy between their doctrines and those of the
Judeo-Egyptian Philo of Alexandria; itself the seat of three schools, at
once philosophic and religious, the Greek, the Egyptian, and the Jewish.
Pythagoras and Plato, the most mystical of the Grecian philosophers (the
latter heir to the doctrines of the former), and who had traveled, the
latter in Egypt, and the former in Phoenicia, India, and Persia, also
taught the esoteric doctrine...The dominant doctrines of Plutonism were
found in Gnosticism...
    The Jewish-Greek School of Alexandria is known only by two of its chiefs,
Aristobulus and Philo, both Jews of Alexandria in Egypt. Belonging to Asia
by its origin, to Egypt by its residence, to Greece by its language and
studies, it strove to show that all truths embedded in the philosophies of
other countries were transplanted thither from Palestine. Aristobulus
declared that all the facts and details of the Jewish Scriptures were so
many allegories concealing the most profound meanings, and that Plato had
borrowed from them all his finest ideas.
    Philo, who lived a century after him, following the same theory,
endeavored to show that the Hebrew writings, by their system of allegories,
were the true source of all religions and philosophical doctrines.
According to him, the literal meaning was for the vulgar alone...The Jews
of Syria and Judea were the direct precursors of Gnosticism; and in their
doctrines were ample Oriental elements.
    These Jews had had with the Orient, at two different periods, intimate
relations, familiarizing them with the doctrines of Asia and especially of
Chaldea and Persia...Living nearly two-thirds of a century, and many of
them long afterward, in Mesopotamia, the cradle of their race; speaking the
same language, and their children reared with those of the Chaldeans.
Assyrians, Medes, and Persians, they necessarily adopted many of the
doctrines of their conquerors...and these additions to the old doctrine
were soon spread by the constant intercourse of commerce into Syria and
Palestine...
    From Egypt or Persia the new Platonists borrowed the idea, and the
Gnostics received it from them, that man, in his terrestrial career, is
successively under the influence of the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars,
Jupiter, and Saturn, until he finally reaches the Elysian Fields." (Morals
and Dogmas, Albert Pike)

    The Jew has also systematically invaded the schools of learning. Today,
the atheistic Jew continues to Jewish/socialize little, White, Christian
children by teaching his atheistic and communistic holocaust (holohoax)
propaganda in the American schools, all the while denying White, Christian
Americans their freedom of speech and freedom to rebut or dispute the
blatant Jewish liars who come to the American school system to tell their
demonic lies, and thereby Jewish/socialize our American White children.

    "'The Jewish Establishment": 'In the early 1930s, Walter Duranty of the
New York Times was in Moscow, covering Joe Stalin the way Joe Stalin wanted
to be covered. To maintain favor and access, he expressly denied that there
was famine in Ukraine even while millions of Ukrainian Christians were
being starved into submission. For his work Duranty won the Pulitzer Prize
for journalism. To this day, the Times remains the most magisterial and
respectable of American newspapers.
    Now imagine that a major newspaper had had a correspondent in Berlin
during roughly the same period who hobnobbed with Hitler, portrayed him in
a flattering light, and denied that Jews were being mistreated, thereby not
only concealing, but materially assisting the regime's persecution. Would
that paper's respectability have been unimpaired several decades later?
    There you have an epitome of what is lamely called 'media bias.' The
Western supporters of Stalin haven't just been excused; they have received
the halo of victim hood for the campaign, in what liberals call 'the
McCarthy era,' to get them out of the government, the education system, and
respectable society itself.
    Not only persecution of Jews but any critical mention of Jewish power in
the media and politics is roundly condemned as 'anti- Semitism.' But there
isn't even a term of opprobrium for participation in the mass murders of
Christians. Liberals still don't censure the Communist attempt to extirpate
Christianity from Soviet Russia and its empire, and for good reason,
liberals themselves, particularly Jewish liberals, are still trying to
uproot Christianity from America.
    It's permissible to discuss the power of every other group, from the
Black Muslims to the Christian Right, but the much greater power of the
Jewish establishment is off-limits. That, in fact, is the chief measure of
its power: its ability to impose its own taboos while tearing down the
taboos of others, you might almost say its prerogative of offending. You
can read articles in Jewish-controlled publications from the Times to
Commentary blaming Christianity for the Holocaust or accusing Pope Pius XII
of indifference to it, but don't look for articles in any major publication
that wants to stay in business examining the Jewish role in Communism and
liberalism, however temperately." (The Jewish Establishment, Joseph Sobran,
September 1995 issue)

    The holocaust is taught in schools, and the Jew is allowed to come in and
teach his religious views in the context of teaching about the holocaust,
and he influences our children into believing that Jews are the chosen
people of God. In reality, true White Christians are the Chosen People of God.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax-2 by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:16:40 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Today, at this late hour of the history of White Christianity, the Jew has
sought to brainwash uneducated and ignorant generations into the misplaced
pity and sorrow of what can only be called The Jewish Holocaust Religion.
Jews are allowed to teach people to hate Jesus Christ and blaspheme
Almighty God, yet they are admired and pitied by most people in the world,
while they tell blatant lies about the so-called German "death camps."
These lies cannot be proven scientifically and are lies designed only to be
cheap, Jewish public relation propaganda to invoke pity for the Jews, while
they pick the American White Man's pockets and raid White America like a
corporate lawyer.

    The pity heaped on them is misplaced pity that should be directed to
Jesus Christ, as He was the only innocent person ever to walk the face of
the earth, and yet was put to death by the Jewish people. Now, however,
even though the Jews believe and teach in their synagogues that Jesus is
boiling in excrement in Hell, to call a Jew a Christ-killer is an offense
that has put people in jail for much of their lives.

    The Holocaust He was first fabricated by the head of the KGB, the Jew
Lavrenty Beria. Since then, week after week, for almost fifty years, the
television, radio, and media have continued to brainwash the American
public with scores of historically inaccurate anti-Nazi and anti-German
movies, claiming a German conspiracy to commit genocide against the Jewish
people.

    Yet, no conspiracy or so-called "Final Solution" has ever been proven to
have existed among the Nazi leadership. It is true that hundreds of
thousands of people died during World War II, and yes, a small percentage
of them were Jews. It is true that thousands died in the internment camps,
many of whom were confessed enemies of the national state. Some were
gypsies, Communists, Baptists, Masons, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses,
Germans, Poles, Czechs and Frenchmen.

    The Jews have been exposed to claim that those non-Jews who died in the
camps were Jewish in order to further exaggerate the numbers of Jews who
died in concentration camps. It is very important, for the sake of truth,
to remember that the work or industrial camps were continuously exposed to
rampant diseases. At the time that these camps existed throughout Europe,
there were no magic drugs like our antibiotics. Most people in the European
camps died of dysentery, influenza, or perhaps hepatitis B, tuberculosis,
cholera, typhus, or even old age. So it may be said that while the majority
of deaths were of natural causes or disease, they were nevertheless
premature because of the war.

    Talking about numbers let us examine a few here:

    1). How long does it take to cremate a body?

    Answer: According to crematory operators today, it takes more about two
hours to completely cremate a body.

    2). How long did it take to cremate a body during World War II?

    Answer: Cremation was a relatively new thing in the early 40s and
therefore it took more than four hours to cremate a single body. It would
have been impossible to cremate more than one body at a time, for with more
bodies the time needed to create the bodies would increase with each body.
>From one body and four hours to three bodies and eight hours, four bodies
and 12 hours and etc.

    3). How much residue and ashes are left after a body is cremated?

    Answer: Today there is about 10 to 12 pounds of residue, depending upon
the size of the body; and that is with the residue being run through a
grinder to reduce the larger bone fragments into smaller one. In the 40s
there would have been 40 to 50 pounds of residue and no grinding to reduce
the larger bone and meat fragments, so there would have no other reduction
in the size of the body.

    3). How much weight in ashes and bone fragments would it take to fill a
box car or hopper car?

    Answer: The European rail cars are about ½ the size of the ones in the
United States, then and now. So it would have taken about 20,000 pounds of
residue to fill a box car.

    4). How many men would it have taken to transfer the residue from the
ovens to the rail siding where they would have been loaded out on?

    Answer: With one man and one wheel borrow which would have held about 50
pounds of residue it would have taken about 200 hundred men to transfer the
20,000 pounds that would fill the box car. These men would have had to move
constantly and therefore would have had to be releaved every few hours to
let them rest so that they could work again. Thus the number of men would
have to be 600 at the rate of 200 men changing shifts every 8 hours.

    Now slave labor, as history has shown, is the worst sort of labor;
because there is no incentive to produce more and more. Instead the slaves
move less and less as time progresses. This would have added another 600 to
the work force thus causing the Germans to have use 1200 men for one box or
hopper car per day, just to move the residue from the ovens to the rail
sidings. Of course we have not taken into consideration the distance that
the men would have to travel with their wheel barrow; and thus would have
added substantually more men to the work force.

    5). How many men would have taken to load the residue in the box or
hopper cars after the transfer from the ovens?

    Answer: Due to the fact that the European cars are about ½ the size of
American ones, it would have take at least 4 men on each side of the car
shoveling the residue up into the car. Then it would have taken 4 men, two
on each side to throw the residue from the door to the back of the car.
This would have taken at least 8 men, and since they would have to be
relieved every few hours that would increase the work forces from 8 to 24
men. Then just as we had to double the work force because of the slowdown
in the movement of the slave labor, it would therefore take 72 men to load
the cars. Again we are not taking into consideration the sickness and
accidents which would necessarily happen because of humans being just that:
humans. Which would also increase the work force.

    6). How many cars could be loaded at the same time? And how many cars
would a siding hold?

    Answer: Only about 10 cars could be loaded at one time because if more
than that were loaded, the workers would be getting into each others way,
thus causing both a slowdown and additional workers to the work force.
Therefore, it would take about 1300 men to load 10 cars in one days 24
hours time.

Willie Martin

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 3-by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:58:32 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

7). How many pounds of residue would 4,000,000 bodies produce?

    Answer: At the rate of 40 to 50 pounds per body; and we will use the
lesser weight of 40 pounds, it would produce 4,000,000 x 40 pounds =
160,000,000 millions of pounds of residue.

    8). How many rail cars would it take to move 160,000,000 pounds of
residue?

    Answer: At the rate of 20,000 pounds per car, and that is really filling
the car up because the car would probably not hold more than 15,000 pounds,
it would take about 16,000 cars. Which would not have been possible because
the allied bombers were bombing everything in sight day and night and would
have destroyed that many cars in raids.

    9). How long would it take at the rate of 10 cars per day to move 16000
cars?

    Answer: It wouldhave taken 16000 days.

    10). How many years would it have taken to move these cars at the rate
above mentioned?

    Answer: it would have taken 16000 days divided by 365 days in a year = 54
years.

    Therefore, it would not have been possible to cremate 4,000,000 people
and move their ashes and residue in 3 years time.

    The movies give the false impression that only Jews were interned in the
work and labor camps. The Jews have claimed hundreds of thousands of
non-Jews in order to fabricate their numbers and claim that 6 million Jews
purposely were killed at the hands of the SS, simply because they were
Jewish. In recent years, whenever a White Christian would speak up to point
out the irrefutable and blatant facts about the atheistic Jewish Holocaust
Myth. The Jews have done everything they can to stifle the American man's
freedom of speech in his own country.

    This is a one-sided presentation of World War II that belittles the
American fighting man's part in the war and gives undue credit to the Jews
and exaggerates the Jewish deaths at the expense of other more deserving
minorities such as the Ukrainian people.

    As incredible as it may sound, if it can be proven beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the Jews themselves were responsible for the excessive and
insane bombing policies of the Americans and the British over Germany in
World War II, then that would mean that the Jews themselves are directly
responsible for the incredible numbers or deaths in the Nazi labor camps.
For it is an indisputable fact that what has been called the "atrocities"
of the camps did not occur until after the Allied bombers had destroyed the
railway systems that shipped food and medical supplies to these camps. If
the Nazis had been able to bomb the transportation systems of the Americans
and prevent them from shipping medicine and foodstuffs to the Japanese
internees and German prisoners of war in American concentration camps, then
unsanitary living conditions and malnutrition would certainly have had the
same results in extraordinary numbers of Japanese internees dying from
dysentery and cholera.

    But as of this date, not a single American nor British soldier has been
tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity, even though thousands of
such incidents did occur in the American victimization of Japanese, Germans
and people of other nationalities during World War II.

    To fail to present an objective and truthful look at the events of World
War II is to fail to learn from the mistakes of that era. Today, Zionist
and Talmudic organized Jewry knowingly and willfully continue to present
and perpetuate atheistic, Communist propaganda only because it paints the
Jews as the victims of the Nazis. Many courageous Americans such as Senator
Taft and many Supreme Court Justices spoke out against the travesty of
justice called the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials against the leaders of the
German government after World War II.

    "World War II was a war to renew Jewish domination of Germany and Central
Europe and for the maintenance of the power and glory of the British/Jewish
Empire. The conspirators in America, England and France are responsible for
the greatest tragedy the world has ever known and their names will be
dishonored and execrated in history.
    It never would have started had not Roosevelt and the half Jew Bullitt
guaranteed to Britain and France all of America's resources, which meant,
first, repeal of our neutrality act and supplying them with munitions and
bombers without stint; second, in time the extension of unlimited credit;
third the use of our fleet in the Pacific to protect British, French and
Dutch interests; if these did not suffice for victory, then our young men
as air pilots and our fleet to be sent to Europe; and lastly, if World
Jewry and the British/Jewish Empire could not win without them, millions of
our lads to die in Europe's babbles.
    The premeditated killing of human beings by another, save in self
defense, is murder, a crime against Christianity, morality, humanity, and
civilization, and this applies with greatest guilt to the wholesale
slaughter by one nation of the people of another who have not attacked or
harmed them. After this illegal, secret plot was negotiated, Roosevelt, the
Jews and the war-mongers of this country, of England and France sought to
overthrow the Chamberlain government and to replace it with the Jews
Churchill, Eden, Hore-Belisha and Duff Cooper.
    They plotted to get Bonnet out of the French Cabinet and to substitute
the Jews Reynaud, Blum and Mandel. The ardent but unsuccessful courtship of
Stalin and Soviet Russia was insisted upon by Roosevelt, World Jewry and
war-mongers of America, England and France.
    One of the reasons for the Roosevelt/Eden plot to overthrow the
Chamberlain government and remove Bonnet from the French Cabinet was
because they would not agree to pay the price Stalin demanded to encircle
and defeat Germany. At Roosevelt's and the Jews' insistence, England and
France guaranteed the boundaries of Poland in order to encircle Germany and
renew Jewish control. This guarantee of the boundaries of Poland was the
direct cause of World War II, it knowingly necessitated it." (War! War!
War!, by Cincinnatus, pp. 188- 189)

    Many courageous and patriotic Americans knew that the so- called war
crimes and the changes against the German government officials were nothing
more than Communist propaganda designed to blame the Germans for many
Communist atrocities that Stalin had engineered and perpetrated. It is
certainly un-American to be afraid of the truth, and no truth-loving
American can possibly stand by and watch the Communist propaganda of World
War II continue to be taught in our public school systems.

    Today, fifty years after Adolf Hitler, there is hardly a week or a day
that goes by without an anti-Nazi film or propaganda movie being shown on
television channels that one would think they should be no longer
political. Moreover, the Jews have made Nazi memorabilia and Nazi member
organizations a big business in America. No true American can afford to
stand by and allow the Communist, Jewish Zionist, Antichrist Jews to
continue imposing their version of history and their atheistic values upon
what was once a White Christian Nation.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 4- by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:01:24 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    If the holocaust is to be discussed in our schools as legitimate history,
then let it be discussed objectively and truthfully, based upon fact
instead of Jewish fiction that is designed only to protect the reputation
of Joe Stalin and the Jews behind the Bolshevik revolution of world
Communism. To insist upon fair play is truly an American idea. If we must
hear the Jews side, let us also hear the Arabs' side. We Americans are
innately hateful toward anyone who seeks to rob us of our freedom of
thought, but today that is exactly what the atheistic, Communistic Jews,
and Hollywood one-worlders are seeking to do.
>
>   Stifling freedom of speech through their Communist tactic of so- called
political correctness, they seek to brainwash the next generation of
Americans through drug abuse and relentless Communist propaganda. They seek
to create a police state wherein freedom of speech is completely stifled,
and when freedom of speech is a crime, soon freedom of thought also becomes
a crime.
>
>   The Jews, through the ACLU and other Communist Jewish front groups have,
when it is convenient, defended freedom of speech as long as it is a
Communist or a dissenter seeking to tear down White America. But when the
shoe is on the other foot, they will not defend the rights of White,
Christian Americans, which our forefathers fought for and embodied in the
Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The Jews are currently using federal
and state money that they have conned form the American people to fund
their one- sided Communist views of World War II. So, in effect, every
state sponsored holocaust program is but another Jewish con game designed
to rob the working man and the American tax payer, while enslaving these
White people's children into Jewish Socialism.
>
>   Think of this travesty of freedom in these terms. A group of atheistic,
Christ-hating, Devil-worshipers comes to your school system and demands the
right to teach your children their God- hating, atheistic values while
making no secret of their ulterior motives to undermine your Christian
values and your authority as a parent. In addition to this, these same
Devil-worshiping pagans claim that Nero of Rome was right to burn the
Christians on crosses in his nocturnal garden and to slaughter Christian
women and children by throwing them to the vicious, man-eating lions of the
Roman circus. What if these same people dared to say that the Jews were
absolutely correct in putting Jesus Christ to death and viciously murdering
Him? Would you, as a God-fearing person speak up against such an obvious
abuse of American freedom?
>
>   Well, that is exactly what the jews are doing throughout the school
systems of America by sending their Jewish evangelists into your classrooms
to preach the establishment of their holocaust religious cult. That is
exactly what the Jews have made of the Jewish deaths of WW II. They have
used the Nazi work camps as an excuse to extort billions of dollars from
the American tax payer, all in support of their Antichrist, world
domination philosophy known as Zionism, and all for the purpose of
supporting the illegal state of so- called Israel in Palestine.
>
>   We Americans have no objection to the truth, but we do object to liars
and to half-truths being promoted in our school systems for the express
purpose of manipulating and brainwashing our children. Let us remember that
the school teachers and the Jews who sponsor these programs do not invite
the local Neo-Nazis to defend their position, nor do they invite the
scholars of The Institute for Historical Review, whose address is POB 1306,
Torrance, CA 90505. They only present one-sided arguments based upon
fabrications and lies first put forward by the Stalinist Communist regime,
namely the Jew head of the KGB Lavrenty Beria, mentioned earlier.
>
>   There are many honest and competent historians who disagree with the
Communist line of propaganda. One outstanding example of orchestrated,
modern, Jewish propaganda is the Hollywood versions of the Simon Wiesenthal
stories. Mr. Wiesenthal is portrayed by the Jewish Hollywood crowd as the
foremost Nazi hunter in the world. He is literally presented as a Jewish
hero, and as a wonderful humanitarian, when in fact, the man is a liar and
a hypocrite. He has openly lied and confused the truth, but our children
have never been taught the truth about this lying Jew agent, who even
admitted that he was fighting for the Communists. What our children are
taught is that the Simon Wiesenthal Center was named after this "great
man," and that two American presidents awarded this liar with honorary
awards for his so-called work in tracking down Nazis.
>
>   Our children are not taught that this man has consistency lied in his
report about what he saw during WW II. In 1948, this lying Jew testified
under oath that from 1939-1941 he was a "Soviet Chief engineer working in
Lvov and Odessa." But in his very own biography, he claims that he was a
"mechanic in a factory that produced bedsprings" during those same years.
This example may seem trivial, but Wiesenthal has lied about far worse than
this. For example, Wiesenthal published a book in 1946 in which he
presented his view of history, which he supposedly obtained facts  from the
confession of Mauthausen Commandant Franz Zieris.
>
>   In his book, he claimed that four million people were gassed at this
camp. Later, he told USA Today in April, 1983, "I was one of 34 prisoners
alive out of 150,000 who had been put there." Not only did he lie twice
about this number, he lied a third time in his own autobiography, in which
he wrote: "almost 3,000 prisoners died in Maunhausen after the Americans
liberated us on May 5, 1945."
>
>   This is just like a Communist Jew to lie when it suits his needs. Worse,
Wiesenthal has been allowed to teach our children these lies, without any
questioning. Why has this Jew, who has consistently lied in print, never
been questioned? Why have our children not been presented with the fact
that this man has been consistently proven to be a liar?
>
>   Finally, the most flagrant propaganda that has been spread by Wiesenthal
is the "human soap" myth. The myth is that Germans used the fat form dead
Jews to make soap. Wiesenthal wrote in Der Neue Weg, an Austrian Jew paper
that 900,000 dead Jews were shipped to a factory and used to make soap.
Wiesenthal claimed that the letters RIF on German soap made at that time
stood for Rein juedisches Fett, which means "Pure Jewish Fat." In fact, the
letters stood for Reichstelle Fuer industrielle Fettversorgung or "National
Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning." In fact, no historians have ever
acknowledged this claim to be true. It was merely a fabrication of Mr.
Wiesenthal a proven lier.
>
>   One example of this is the difficulties of the historian David Irving,
who after once being persuaded of the facts, changed many of his views
regarding the history of World War II. Mr. Irving found it virtually
impossible to find a publisher to publish his new-found convictions, which
contradicted the Jewish version of World War II.
>
>   Yet, the hysterical Jewish exaggerations became so blatant that the more
sane Jews have found it necessary to admit there could have been no more
than 3.5 million Jews to have died in that period of time, and certainly
not the exaggerated 6 million. The following is reprinted from the New York
Post, March 26, 1992:
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: 20 SS Men Testify About Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:54:43 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1385
> Fiction again

Mindless denial again. Typical of those who hate Jews so much they wish
to publically deny what in their hearts they know to be true.

You could do historians a favor and forward to them your evidence that
this testimony is fake, somehow they all lack your insight in this
matter!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:56:52 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1386
> In a message dated 9/19/99 6:23:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Now stop this silliness and get about answering the open questions
>  you've been running from about the the Nazi beliefs about the
Christian
>  church and the parallels between Nazism and Zionism. Or is it too
>  taxing for you?
>
>  Philip Mathews >>
>
>
> Read past posts and you will see the answers on both counts.

Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was pointed
out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd like
your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away quietly.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing at Auschwitz
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:59:55 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1387
> In a message dated 9/19/99 6:24:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Typical denier. Can't deal with the evidence, so he claims it's all
>  fake, hoping people don't notice along the way how idiotic that line
of
>  defense is!
>
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
>
> Or the liar make up a bunch of stories to expand his lies a little
further.

That's what your counting on, that people will be so stupid or ignorant
as to not be able to consult standard histories on the subject and read
the massive documentary evidence proving the Nazi genocide, one of the
reasons they pretty much admitted the deed, pleading that they were
just following orders. You can't make evidence go away just by saying
it's made up. Some people actually believe in the truth, Jew hater.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax 1 by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:07:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:

>      I realize that I am an uninvited guest in this conversation, but
if you
>  really want to know what we think of the HoloHoax and why we think
so. I am
>  sending several posts to the list, and if you wish to read them then
so be
>  it and then you decide for yourself; if you don't wish to read them
then
>  simply delete them. Willie
>
  (snip long antisemitic diatribe)
>
>     The Jew has also systematically invaded the schools of learning.
Today,
>  the atheistic Jew continues to Jewish/socialize little, White,
Christian
>  children by teaching his atheistic and communistic holocaust
(holohoax)

What a moron! How can there be anything atheistic or communistic about
a Holocaust? Mr. Martin sounds like an apprentice under Goebbels, an
apprentice with limited writing ability, I might add.

>  propaganda in the American schools, all the while denying White,
Christian
>  Americans their freedom of speech and freedom to rebut or dispute the
>  blatant Jewish liars who come to the American school system to tell
their
>  demonic lies, and thereby Jewish/socialize our American White
children.

No has has deprived fools from denying established history because of
deep seated antisemitism. Those views have been exposed, however, as
devoid of any truth, and this greatly angers hateful  bigots.

>
>     "'The Jewish Establishment": 'In the early 1930s, Walter Duranty
of the
>  New York Times was in Moscow, covering Joe Stalin the way Joe Stalin
wanted
>  to be covered. To maintain favor and access, he expressly denied
that there
>  was famine in Ukraine even while millions of Ukrainian Christians
were
>  being starved into submission. For his work Duranty won the Pulitzer
Prize
>  for journalism. To this day, the Times remains the most magisterial
and
>  respectable of American newspapers.
>     Now imagine that a major newspaper had had a correspondent in
Berlin
>  during roughly the same period who hobnobbed with Hitler, portrayed
him in
>  a flattering light, and denied that Jews were being mistreated,
thereby not
>  only concealing, but materially assisting the regime's persecution.
Would
>  that paper's respectability have been unimpaired several decades
later?

Neither event should have had any impact on the paper several decades
later.

>     There you have an epitome of what is lamely called 'media bias.'
The
>  Western supporters of Stalin haven't just been excused; they have
received
>  the halo of victim hood for the campaign, in what liberals call 'the
>  McCarthy era,' to get them out of the government, the education
system, and
>  respectable society itself.

You falsely characterize McCarthy, who was not making a legitimate
attempt to remove communinists, but was in fact a witch hunt, where
people were smeared for political views which did not please McCarthy,
whether they were communists or not. McCarthy was a demented alcoholic
who merely wished publicity and didn't care how many innoncent lives he
ruined to obtain it.

>     Not only persecution of Jews but any critical mention of Jewish
power in
>  the media and politics is roundly condemned as 'anti- Semitism.'

Because it is. As well as being nonsense, the kind believed by small,
insecure minds.

 But there
>  isn't even a term of opprobrium for participation in the mass
murders of
>  Christians. Liberals still don't censure the Communist attempt to
extirpate
>  Christianity from Soviet Russia and its empire, and for good reason,
>  liberals themselves, particularly Jewish liberals, are still trying
to
>  uproot Christianity from America.
>     It's permissible to discuss the power of every other group, from
the Black
>  Muslims to the Christian Right, but the much greater power of the
Jewish
>  establishment is off-limits.

More nonsense. This point of view receives a constant airing by extreme
rightwing groups on a continuous basis. The problem for those who put
forward this belief is that no one believes it, despite its constant
repitition.

 That, in fact, is the chief measure of its
>  power: its ability to impose its own taboos while tearing down the
taboos
>  of others, you might almost say its prerogative of offending. You
can read
>  articles in Jewish-controlled publications from the Times to
Commentary
>  blaming Christianity for the Holocaust or accusing Pope Pius XII of
>  indifference to it, but don't look for articles in any major
publication
>  that wants to stay in business examining the Jewish role in
Communism and
>  liberalism, however temperately." (The Jewish Establishment, Joseph
Sobran,
>  September 1995 issue)

Perhaps because there is no market for views shared only by a fringe
group of haters, otherwise such tripe could sell.

>
>     The holocaust is taught in schools, and the Jew is allowed to
come in and
>  teach his religious views in the context of teaching about the
holocaust,
>  and he influences our children into believing that Jews are the
chosen
>  people of God. In reality, true White Christians are the Chosen
People of
> God.

No religious views are taught as part of Holocaust history. This is
just more nonsense from a man who obviously places very little stock in
truth or facts. So far, he's said nothing about the Holocaust.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax-2 by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:09:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
>     Today, at this late hour of the history of White Christianity,
the Jew
> has sought to brainwash uneducated and ignorant generations into the
> misplaced pity and sorrow of what can only be called The Jewish
Holocaust
> Religion. Jews are allowed to teach people to hate Jesus Christ and
blaspheme
> Almighty God, yet they are admired and pitied by most people in the
world,
> while they tell blatant lies about the so-called German "death
camps." These
> lies cannot be proven scientifically and are lies designed only to be
cheap,
> Jewish public relation propaganda to invoke pity for the Jews, while
they
> pick the American White Man's pockets and raid White America like a
corporate
> lawyer.

It is people like Mr. Martin who attempt to brainwash the uneducated
and ignorant with respect to the established facts of the Holocaust.
There is not a respected historian anywhere in the world who questions
the reality of this historical event, anymore than the Civil War is
questioned. The proof takes the form identical to the establishment of
any event of history - documentary evidence, testimonial evidence,
physical evidence, and in the case of the Holocaust- hundreds of
admissions by Nazis of the evil deed. Against this Mr. Martin offers
fairground rhetoric with not a shred of evidence.

>
>     The pity heaped on them is misplaced pity that should be directed
to
> Jesus Christ, as He was the only innocent person ever to walk the
face of the
> earth, and yet was put to death by the Jewish people. Now, however,
even
> though the Jews believe and teach in their synagogues that Jesus is
boiling
> in excrement in Hell, to call a Jew a Christ-killer is an offense
that has
> put people in jail for much of their lives.

Blatant, outright lies. This man has no shame.

>
>     The Holocaust He was first fabricated by the head of the KGB, the
Jew
> Lavrenty Beria. Since then, week after week, for almost fifty years,
the
> television, radio, and media have continued to brainwash the American
public
> with scores of historically inaccurate anti-Nazi and anti-German
movies,
> claiming a German conspiracy to commit genocide against the Jewish
people.

Again, not one piece of evidence, just a foolish claim. The historical
canon on the Holocaust is massive, and yet people like Mr. Martin like
to talk about movies and the media. These outlets don't write history,
or sway the scholars who do. This is a typical denier strawman argument
which allows them to avoid a real discussion of any of the historical
evidence, and for good reason - they have nothing but unsupported
conspiracy theories to offer.

>
>     Yet, no conspiracy or so-called "Final Solution" has ever been
proven to
> have existed among the Nazi leadership.

Simply false.

> It is true that hundreds of thousands
> of people died during World War II, and yes, a small percentage of
them were
> Jews. It is true that thousands died in the internment camps, many of
whom
> were confessed enemies of the national state. Some were gypsies,
Communists,
> Baptists, Masons, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Germans, Poles,
Czechs
> and Frenchmen.

Martin has no source for such information. Millions of Jews were sent
to the camps because they were Jews. Millions of them died.
Transporation documents exist showing the shipments of Jews to the
various extermination camps and non-extermination camps. There the
record stops. Martin knows nothing of the evidence supporting the
history of the Holocaust, and what is more, he doesn't care because he
wishes to present his lie irrespective of the truth.

>
>     The Jews have been exposed to claim that those non-Jews who died
in the
> camps were Jewish in order to further exaggerate the numbers of Jews
who died
> in concentration camps.

Another lie. Historians know that 5-6 million non Jews perished as
well. Mr. Martin is either ignorant of this fact, or is lying again.

 It is very important, for the sake of truth, to
> remember that the work or industrial camps were continuously exposed
to
> rampant diseases.

Nonsense. Camps aren't exposed to diseases! Camps gives rise to
diseases when the conditions of sanitation and nutrition are
overwelmingly abysmal. The Nazis are directly responsible for the
diseases in the camps, diseases which could have been prevented. Having
said that, disease killed a tiny minority of the 6 million exterminated
Jews.

 At the time that these camps existed throughout Europe,
> there were no magic drugs like our antibiotics. Most people in the
European
> camps died of dysentery, influenza, or perhaps hepatitis B,
tuberculosis,
> cholera, typhus, or even old age.

Lack of anitbiotics was not an issue. Typhus and malnutrition were the
major non-gassing killers, both preventable if the Nazis cared enough
to try.

 So it may be said that while the majority
> of deaths were of natural causes or disease, they were nevertheless
premature
> because of the war.

More nonsense, not supported by a single historian or piece of
historical evidence.  In other words, a complete fabrication on the
author's part.

>
>     Talking about numbers let us examine a few here:
>
>     1). How long does it take to cremate a body?
>
>     Answer: According to crematory operators today, it takes more
about two
> hours to completely cremate a body.

Nope. It can be done in less than one hour.

>
>     2). How long did it take to cremate a body during World War II?
>
>     Answer: Cremation was a relatively new thing in the early 40s and
> therefore it took more than four hours to cremate a single body.

There is no substantial difference between then and now. Cremation was
hardly a new thing.

 It would
> have been impossible to cremate more than one body at a time, for
with more
> bodies the time needed to create the bodies would increase with each
body.

False. The opposite is true. Three, four, and sometimes more bodies
were burned at a time. The cremation capacities outlined in the
instruction manuals of the company who manufactured the crematoria
indicate a cremation rate easily accounting for the number of bodies
burned. In addition, the Nazis and Sonderkommandos who worked the ovens
have confirmed even higher rates than the manuals suggested.
Additionally, during peak periods, corpses were burned in large pits in
many of the camps, thus greatly increasing the capacity of the
crematoria.

> From one body and four hours to three bodies and eight hours, four
bodies and
> 12 hours and etc.

How silly.

>
>     3). How much residue and ashes are left after a body is cremated?
>
>     Answer: Today there is about 10 to 12 pounds of residue,
depending upon
> the size of the body; and that is with the residue being run through
a
> grinder to reduce the larger bone fragments into smaller one. In the
40s
> there would have been 40 to 50 pounds of residue and no grinding to
reduce
> the larger bone and meat fragments, so there would have no other
reduction in
> the size of the body.

Absolutely ficticious! Bone fragments were indeed ground in the camps,
with work requests for grinding machines and sifting screens part of
the record. The remains of one human fits into a container about the
size of a shoe box.

>
>     3). How much weight in ashes and bone fragments would it take to
fill a
> box car or hopper car?

>     Answer: The European rail cars are about ½ the size of the ones
in the
> United States, then and now. So it would have taken about 20,000
pounds of
> residue to fill a box car.

They didn't ship ash and human remains by boxcar. More utter ignorance
and lies.

>
>     4). How many men would it have taken to transfer the residue from
the
> ovens to the rail siding where they would have been loaded out on?
>
>     Answer: With one man and one wheel borrow which would have held
about 50
> pounds of residue it would have taken about 200 hundred men to
transfer the
> 20,000 pounds that would fill the box car. These men would have had
to move
> constantly and therefore would have had to be releaved every few
hours to let
> them rest so that they could work again. Thus the number of men would
have to
> be 600 at the rate of 200 men changing shifts every 8 hours.

Again, they didn't ship ash out of the camps. With respect to labor,
they had a virtually unlimited supply of Jews who did this work. During
the height of the Hungarian exterminations in mid 1944, labor records
indicate over 800 Sonderkommandos working in the Auschwitz-Birkenau
crematoria.

>
>     Now slave labor, as history has shown, is the worst sort of
labor;
> because there is no incentive to produce more and more. Instead the
slaves
> move less and less as time progresses. This would have added another
600 to
> the work force thus causing the Germans to have use 1200 men for one
box or
> hopper car per day, just to move the residue from the ovens to the
rail
> sidings.

Hehehe. What a fool, to think that anyone would accept this logic, or
that it could be quantified. Furthermore, there was a continuous supply
of new slave laborers, as new transports came in regularly, allowing
the Nazis to replenish their crews with fresh Jews.

 Of course we have not taken into consideration the distance that the
> men would have to travel with their wheel barrow; and thus would have
added
> substantually more men to the work force.

I suppose Mr. Martin thinks the Nazis quite stupid if he imagines they
couldn't come up with a better mode of transport than a wheel barrow!

>
>     5). How many men would have taken to load the residue in the box
or
> hopper cars after the transfer from the ovens?
>
>     Answer: Due to the fact that the European cars are about ½ the
size of
> American ones, it would have take at least 4 men on each side of the
car
> shoveling the residue up into the car. Then it would have taken 4
men, two on
> each side to throw the residue from the door to the back of the car.
This
> would have taken at least 8 men, and since they would have to be
relieved
> every few hours that would increase the work forces from 8 to 24 men.
Then
> just as we had to double the work force because of the slowdown in
the
> movement of the slave labor, it would therefore take 72 men to load
the cars.
> Again we are not taking into consideration the sickness and accidents
which
> would necessarily happen because of humans being just that: humans.
Which
> would also increase the work force.

Poor Mr. Martin, wastes all of his time making up these arithmetical
scenarios based on a false assumption. The ash was not shipped out, it
was disposed of at the camp.

>
>     6). How many cars could be loaded at the same time? And how many
cars
> would a siding hold?
>
>     Answer: Only about 10 cars could be loaded at one time because if
more
> than that were loaded, the workers would be getting into each others
way,
> thus causing both a slowdown and additional workers to the work
force.
> Therefore, it would take about 1300 men to load 10 cars in one days
24 hours
> time.
>

He tries to get so much mileage out of one false premise. Maybe he gets
better!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax 3-by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:10:39 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
>     7). How many pounds of residue would 4,000,000 bodies produce?
>
>     Answer: At the rate of 40 to 50 pounds per body; and we will use
the
> lesser weight of 40 pounds, it would produce 4,000,000 x 40 pounds =
> 160,000,000 millions of pounds of residue.

The residue per body was a fraction of that.

>
>     8). How many rail cars would it take to move 160,000,000 pounds
of
> residue?
>
>     Answer: At the rate of 20,000 pounds per car, and that is really
filling
> the car up because the car would probably not hold more than 15,000
pounds,
> it would take about 16,000 cars. Which would not have been possible
because
> the allied bombers were bombing everything in sight day and night and
would
> have destroyed that many cars in raids.

Back to the fictitious railcars!

>
>     9). How long would it take at the rate of 10 cars per day to move
16000
> cars?
>
>     Answer: It wouldhave taken 16000 days.

Apparently this false premise is all he has.

>
>     10). How many years wouldit have taken to move these cars at the
rate
> above mentioned?
>
>     Answer: it would have taken 16000 days divided by 365 days in a
year = 54
> years.

He's growing weary, he doesn't even bother to make up data to support
this conclusion.

>
>     Therefore, it would not have been possible to cremate 4,000,000
people
> and move their asshes and residue in 3 years time.

Yawn.

>
>     The movies give the false impression that only Jews were interned
in the
> work and labor camps. The Jews have claimed hundreds of thousands of
non-Jews
> in order to fabricate their numbers and claim that 6 million Jews
purposely
> were killed at the hands of the SS, simply because they were Jewish.

Already dealt with. The total numbers for the Holocaust is between
11-12 million as historian know and write. This is just another
strawman argument for a man who has no other.

 In
> recent years, whenever a White Christian would speak up to point out
the
> irrefutable and blatant facts about the atheistic Jewish Holocaust
Myth. The
> Jews have done everything they can to stifle the American man's
freedom of
> speech in his own country.

American man!?!  White Christains don't doubt the Holocaust. Only a
small, extremists fringe do so, and they hardly represent  Christians
of any color.

>
>     This is a one-sided presentation of World War II that belittles
the
> American fighting man's part in the war and gives undue credit to the
Jews
> and exaggerates the Jewish deaths at the expense of other more
deserving
> minorities such as the Ukrainian people.

It is not one sided at all, it is the  considered opinion of
professional historian, all of them.

>
>     As incredible as it may sound, if it can be proven beyond a
shadow of a
> doubt that the Jews themselves were responsible for the excessive and
insane
> bombing policies of the Americans and the British over Germany in
World War
> II, then that would mean that the Jews themselves are directly
responsible
> for the incredible numbers or deaths in the Nazi labor camps.

Typical denier strategy - if I didn't convince you the numbers are a
lie, I'll give you another lie to account for the true numbers!!!

For it is an
> indisputable fact that what has been called the "atrocities" of the
camps did
> not occur until after the Allied bombers had destroyed the railway
systems
> that shipped food and medical supplies to these camps.

An absolute falsehood. The vast majority of Jews were long dead when
the allied bomging reached Poland, which was not until the middle of
1944. Even in Germany, which was extensively bombed, wharehouses of
food were found in close proximity to many of the camps, with starving
Jews discovered by the allies.

> If the Nazis had been
> able to bomb the transportation systems of the Americans and prevent
them
> from shipping medicine and foodstuffs to the Japanese internees and
German
> prisoners of war in American concentration camps, then unsanitary
living
> conditions and malnutrition would certainly have had the same results
in
> extraordinary numbers of Japanese internees dying from dysentery and
cholera.

Except that the deaths occurred before the bombing ever had any effect.
The strategic  bombing survey done by the United States just after the
war noted little disruption of transportation lines before the middle
of 1944.

>
>     But as of this date, not a single American nor British soldier
has been
> tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity, even though
thousands of
> such incidents did occur in the American victimization of Japanese,
Germans
> and people of other nationalities during World War II.

No such war crimes were committed. Attempted white-washing of Nazi
crimes by pretending they were no different than other alleged crimes
is a staple of Holocaust Denial. First they say it didn't happen; then
they say it happened but wasn't intentional; then they claim it was no
worse than what others did. The fact that these desperate lies
contradict each other is lost on deniers.

>
>     To fail to present an objective and truthful look at the events
of World
> War II is to fail to learn from the mistakes of that era. Today,
Zionist and
> Talmudic organized Jewry knowingly and willfully continue to present
and
> perpetuate atheistic, Communist propaganda only because it paints the
Jews as
> the victims of the Nazis. Many courageous Americans such as Senator
Taft and
> many Supreme Court Justices spoke out against the travesty of justice
called
> the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials against the leaders of the German
government
> after World War II.

Many Supreme Court Justices did not speak out against Nuremberg, which
has, with the perspective of time, proven to be an exemplary effort to
signal that humanity will not accept any behavior in wartime as
justified. In addition, the Nuremberg trials' legitimacy has nothing to
do with the historical reality of the Holocaust.

>
>     "World War II was a war to renew Jewish domination of Germany and
Central
> Europe and for the maintenance of the power and glory of the
British/Jewish
> Empire. The conspirators in America, England and France are
responsible for
> the greatest tragedy the world has ever known and their names will be
> dishonored and execrated in history.

More of the great, evil conspiracy!

>     It never would have started had not Roosevelt and the half Jew
Bullitt
> guaranteed to Britain and France all of America's resources, which
meant,
> first, repeal of our neutrality act and supplying them with munitions
and
> bombers without stint; second, in time the extension of unlimited
credit;
> third the use of our fleet in the Pacific to protect British, French
and
> Dutch interests; if these did not suffice for victory, then our young
men as
> air pilots and our fleet to be sent to Europe; and lastly, if World
Jewry and
> the British/Jewish Empire could not win without them, millions of our
lads to
> die in Europe's babbles.

It would not have happened had the Germans not accepted Hitler and his
racist views and if Germany had not started a war in pursuit of it's
goals.

>     The premeditated killing of human beings by another, save in self
> defense, is murder, a crime against Christianity, morality, humanity,
and
> civilization, and this applies with greatest guilt to the wholesale
slaughter
> by one nation of the people of another who have not attacked or
harmed them.
> After this illegal, secret plot was negotiated, Roosevelt, the Jews
and the
> war-mongers of this country, of England and France sought to
overthrow the
> Chamberlain government and to replace it with the Jews Churchill,
Eden,
> Hore-Belisha and Duff Cooper.

The concept of a just war is well established in Christia thought. The
Nazis where the war mongers, and no amount of nonsense which stands
reality on its head will change that. Germany started WWII and millions
died because of their actions.

(snip much nonsense)

>     Today, fifty years after Adolf Hitler, there is hardly a week or
a day
> that goes by without an anti-Nazi film or propaganda movie being
shown on
> television channels that one would think they should be no longer
political.
> Moreover, the Jews have made Nazi memorabilia and Nazi member
organizations a
> big business in America. No true American can afford to stand by and
allow
> the Communist, Jewish Zionist, Antichrist Jews to continue imposing
their
> version of history and their atheistic values upon what was once a
White
> Christian Nation.

It is hard to imagine why any television or movie portrayal of Nazis
should be anything but anti-Nazi, but neo-Nazis have trouble
understanding why.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax 4- by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:12:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
>     If the holocaust is to be discussed in our schools as legitimate
history,
> then let it be discussed objectively and truthfully, based upon fact
instead
> of Jewish fiction that is designed only to protect the reputation of
Joe
> Stalin and the Jews behind the Bolshevik revolution of world
Communism.

The Holocaust history isn't written by Jews, another antisemitic
canard. It's written by historians and taught by teachers of history,
who don't suffer from the intellectual blinders your hatred of Jews
creates for you.

>To
> insist upon fair play is truly an American idea. If we must hear the
Jews
> side, let us also hear the Arabs' side.

What does this have to do with the Holocaust? Who hasn't heard the
Arabs side?

 We Americans are innately hateful
> toward anyone who seeks to rob us of our freedom of thought, but
today that
> is exactly what the atheistic, Communistic Jews, and Hollywood
one-worlders
> are seeking to do.

No one has robbed anyone of their freedom of thought, although some
appear to have lost the ability!

>
>     Stifling freedom of speech through their Communist tactic of so-
called
> political correctness, they seek to brainwash the next generation of
> Americans through drug abuse and relentless Communist propaganda.
They seek
> to create a police state wherein freedom of speech is completely
stifled, and
> when freedom of speech is a crime, soon freedom of thought also
becomes a
> crime.

Here we go, wandering off topic and throwing every issue he can think
of into the pot! Political correctness, a fading phenomenon, has
nothing to do with Communism, in fact it owes it's genesis far more to
extreme right wing ideology.

>
>     The Jews, through the ACLU and other Communist Jewish front
groups have,
> when it is convenient, defended freedom of speech as long as it is a
> Communist or a dissenter seeking to tear down White America. But when
the
> shoe is on the other foot, they will not defend the rights of White,
> Christian Americans, which our forefathers fought for and embodied in
the
> Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The Jews are currently using
federal and
> state money that they have conned form the American people to fund
their one-
> sided Communist views of World War II. So, in effect, every state
sponsored
> holocaust program is but another Jewish con game designed to rob the
working
> man and the American tax payer, while enslaving these White people's
children
> into Jewish Socialism.

He's now lapsed into antisemitic ranting. I guess he gave his best shot
at the Holocaust!

(Snip the remainder, which is nothing more than a repetitive rant
agains Jews, all based on myths concocted and sustained by Jew haters.)

The truth of the Holocaust is not threatened by Mr. Martin.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:14:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] Diaries, February 14 1942
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948,
p. 86]
----------------------------------------------------------------
World Jewry will suffer a great catastrophe at the same time as
Bolshevism. The Fuehrer once more expressed his determination to
clean up the Jews in Europe pitilessly. There must be no squeamish
sentimentalism about it. The Jews have deserved the catastrophe that
has now overtaken them. Their destruction will now go hand in hand
with the destruction of our enemies. We must hasten this process
with cold ruthlessness.

The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942:
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948,
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely.
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that
about
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
can be used for forced labor.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Prof. Pfannenstiel - Nazi Testimony on Holocaust
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:15:31 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Professor Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, Waffen-SS hygienist, on a gassing
at Belzec
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 238-244]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
When I am asked about executions of Jews I must confirm that on 19
August
1942 I witnessed an execution of Jews at Belzec extermination camp. I
would like to describe how I came to be there. During my conversations
with SS-Brigadefuehrer Globocnik, he told me about the large
spinning-mills that he had set up in Belzec. He also mentioned that
work at this camp would considerably outstrip German production. When
I asked him where the spinning materials came from, he told me proudly
that they had come from the Jews. At this point he also mentioned the
extermination actions against the Jews, who for the most part were
killed at the the camp at Belzec...

During this first visit I was taken to around by a certain
Polizieihauptmann named Wirth, who also showed and explained to me the
extermination installations at the camp. He told me that the following
morning a new transport of about 500 Jews would be arriving at the
camp who would be channeled through these extermination chambers. He
asked me whether I would like to watch one of these extermination
actions, to which, after a great deal of reflection, I consented. I
planned to submit a report to the Reichsarzt-SS about the
extermination actions. In order to write a report I had, however,
first to observe an action with my own eyes. I remained in the camp,
spent the night there and was witness to the following events the next
morning.

A goods train traveled directly into the camp of Belzec, the freight
cars were opened and Jews whom I believe were from the area of Romania
or Hungary were unloaded. The cars were crammed fairly full. There
were men, women and children of every age. They were ordered to get
into line and then had to proceed to an assembly area and take off
their shoes...

After the Jews had removed their shoes they were separated by sex. The
women went together with the children into a hut. There their hair was
shorn and they had to get undressed... The men went into another hut,
where they received the same treatment. I saw what happened in the
women's hut with my own eyes. After they had undressed, the whole
procedure went fairly quickly. They ran naked from the hut through a
hedge into the actual extermination centre. The whole extermination
centre looked just like a normal delousing institution. In front of
the building there were pots of geraniums and a sign saying "Hackenholt
Foundation", above which there was a star of David. The building was
brightly and pleasantly painted so as not to suggest people would be
killed here...

Inside the buildings, the Jews had to enter chambers into which was
channeled the exhaust of a [100(?)]-HP engine, located in the same
building. In it there were six such extermination chambers. They were
windowless, had electric lights and two doors. One door led outside so
that the bodies could be removed.  People were led from a corridor
into the chambers through an ordinary air-tight door with bolts. There
was a glass peep-hole, as I recall, next to the door in the wall.
Through this window one could watch what was happening inside the room
but only when it was not too full of people. After a short time the
glass became steamed up. When the people had been locked in the room
the motor was switched on and then I suppose the stop-valves or vents
to the chambers opened.  Whether they were stop-valves or vents I
would not like to say. It is possible that the pipe led led directly
to the chambers. Once the engine was running, the light in the
chambers was switched off. This was followed by palpable disquiet in
the chamber. In my view it was only then that the people sensed
something else was in store for them. It seemed to me that behind the
thick walls and door they were praying and shouting for help.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:03:25 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 9:17:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< On the whole it can be said that
 about
 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
 can be used for forced labor.

 Philip Mathews
  >>

Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists didn't expect
to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse at
physical labor than any other race.
 Michael Snead
      14/abb
       ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:05:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 8:58:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was pointed
 out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd like
 your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away quietly.

 Philip Mathews >>

Phil,
    Is this Anita attempt on you trying to stroke your ego? You loose again.
Michael Snead
     14/abb
       ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:18:46 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1401
> In a message dated 9/20/99 9:17:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << On the whole it can be said that
>  about
>  60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per
cent
>  can be used for forced labor.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
>
> Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists
didn't expect
> to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse
at
> physical labor than any other race.

Having trouble with simple reading comprehension I see. Liquidating 60%
means what poor Mr. Snead?

Interestingly, the Nazis estimated European Jewish population at around
11 million before the Holocaust. What's 60% of 11 million?

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:20:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1402
> In a message dated 9/20/99 8:58:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was
pointed
>  out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd like
>  your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away quietly.
>
>  Philip Mathews >>
>
> Phil,
>     Is this Anita attempt on you trying to stroke your ego? You loose
again.

You mean you do!  Running away, and not very good at covering up that
fact either. And the word is lose.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Confederate Flag
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:07:10 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com, SonsofLiberty@onelist.com

Charleston, SC   Post and Courier 9-20-1999
Letter to Editor
Flag of honor

      Recently a letter to the editor informed us that Gen. Robert E. Lee
had surrendered at Appomattox. We are aware of this unfortunate event, but
the struggle continues.
      We will fight until the news media resolve to remove images of our
flag of honor from images of hate groups who do not represent the true
meaning of our flag.
      Until strangers no longer point to the Sons of Confederate Veterans
emblem I proudly display on my car and whisper "Klansman" or "racist," our
crusade will endure. Until bigots and racists cease misusing and blemishing
our flag, our defense of those who honorably died for us will never end.
      While "Dixie" is accepted as a beautiful melody, when it can be freely
played in public, we will consider peace. When people of the Northern states
accept their own involvement in the odious slave trade and cease pointing
their accusing finger at the South, reconciliation may be near.
      Once history books are rewritten to tell the whole truth about the War
for Southern Independence, harmony will follow. But only when Southerners
are treated as equals, free from derision and condescension, will we gladly
lay down our pens and become a reunited nation. Until then, Appomattox was
just a setback.
      J. BARRY GOOCH
      1804 Widgeon Road
      Moncks Corner

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:00:47 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 3:46:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Having trouble with simple reading comprehension I see. Liquidating 60%
 means what poor Mr. Snead?

 Interestingly, the Nazis estimated European Jewish population at around
 11 million before the Holocaust. What's 60% of 11 million?

 Philip Mathews

  >>
If they (Nazis) used 100% (Jews) as forced labor they had a poor labor force.
I know the answer but you are the one having trouble with math so you tell me
and show your work and I will let you know if you are right....well I mean
correct we all know you are to the left.
Michael Snead
    14/abb
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:12:40 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 3:47:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< philnancy@aol.com writes:
 >
 > << Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was
 pointed
 >  out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd like
 >  your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away quietly.
 >
 >  Philip Mathews >> >>

Phil, is this another attempt to stroke your ego? You LOOSE (not rigidly
fastened or securely attached*****You to a T) again! come on phil wake up....
Michael Snead
   14/abb
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:21:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1406
> In a message dated 9/20/99 3:46:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Having trouble with simple reading comprehension I see.
Liquidating 60%
>  means what poor Mr. Snead?

No answer I see. You even left out the exchange, perhaps because after
reading it a half dozen or so times, you finally figured it out!  Let's
have a look, shall we?

(Begin old post)

<< On the whole it can be said that
 about
 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per
cent
 can be used for forced labor.

 Philip Mathews
  >>

Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists didn't
expect
to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse at
physical labor than any other race.

(End old post)

Now, try again to answer the question. How can it prove only some
antisemitic notion of labor utility of Jews when it clearly talks about
liquidating 60%? Care to attempt to rescue any remaining credibility
you might have?

>
>  Interestingly, the Nazis estimated European Jewish population at
around
>  11 million before the Holocaust. What's 60% of 11 million?

Gee, no response here either. Math too hard for you?

>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   >>
> If they (Nazis) used 100% (Jews) as forced labor they had a poor
labor force.

Still having trouble with simple comprehension eh. Try again, the diary
entry gave specific percentages.


> I know the answer but you are the one having trouble with math so you
tell me
> and show your work and I will let you know if you are right..

HEHEHEHE. This ought to be good, given your mathematical performance so
far!!!

Try answering the questions you've been running from.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:26:30 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1407
> In a message dated 9/20/99 3:47:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << philnancy@aol.com writes:
>  >
>  > << Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was
>  pointed
>  >  out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd
like
>  >  your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away
quietly.
>  >
>  >  Philip Mathews >> >>
>
> Phil, is this another attempt to stroke your ego? You LOOSE (not
rigidly
> fastened or securely attached*****You to a T) again! come on phil
wake up....

Now let's see, snipping the posts to conceal your embarrassment again,
eh. Let's just repost it, shall we.

(begin repost)

> << Nonsense. You made one lame attempt on one question, which was
pointed
>  out to you, and ran totally from the other. In other words you'd like
>  your ill considered and unsupported claims to just go away quietly.
>
>  Philip Mathews >>
>
> Phil,
>     Is this Anita attempt on you trying to stroke your ego? You loose
again.

You mean you do!  Running away, and not very good at covering up that
fact either. And the word is lose.

(end repost)

Yup, you're still running away, but you've learned a smidgen more
English than you knew befor!!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:54:07 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists didn't expect
> to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse at
> physical labor than any other race.

They are? Which scientific studies established this, Michael?

"Laughing, Kaltenbrunner entered the gas chamber; then the prisoners were led
from the barracks to execution and all three methods of execution were
demonstrated -- hanging, shooting in the nape of the neck and asphyxiation by
gas." (Testimony of Kandutor during the first Nuremberg trial. See The Trial of
German Major War Criminals, Vol. 20, page 46)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] The Arrogane of the Jew by AxCurtis
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:30:13 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Arrogance of the Jew

Didja hear Alan Dirtshowitz on the (Jew) King Show the other day?  He claims
he "awed" an audience of Germans into silence by suggesting "one of ze zix
millions" might have cured cancer, etc., by now but for having snuffed it.
This fool could not even imagine his listeners were far more likely stunned
into silence by his typical Jewish arrogance.  Six million Jews?  IMAGINE how
many shyster lawyers, thieving financiers, so-called artists, writers and
"actors" we "lost"?  Imagine how many pornographers, pimps, moral whores and
whoremongers we thus deprived ourselves of?  How many phony psychologists,
quack psychiatrists, social "science" academics, "counselors" and government
bureaucrats?  How many rebbis, how many intolerant censors of patriotic
speech?  How many leftists who would encourage the jigs to riot and murder if
they thought for a moment it would scare whites into demanding their
"services" at "negotiating" differences?

Now, contrast this with the TWELVE million Germans killed, the three million
soldiers and the nine million women, children, old men, and "surrendered
enemy personnel".  Let's see, if THESE had been allowed to live, we would
have been on Mars by 1980, have finished exploring the solar system by now,
and would be on our way to the stars.  There would be no such thing as
pornography or taxpayer-funded turds-cast-in-bronze.  There would be no such
thing as "white guilt" in shooting down niggers periodically burning down
cities built by white men.  There would be white nations, built AND governed
to last. And

oops, I almost forgot about the NINETY MILLION other Gentiles murdered by the
Jews under the authority of the Soviet Union!  Surely those ninety million
are worth more than a single Jewish fingernail?  After all, if you are a
believer in messianic mysticism, a reasonable interpretation of the Catholic
Church's "message of Fatima" would be that one of the 90 million murdered by
the Jews was in fact . . . the Messiah.

Hmmm, do ya think the Jews knew that, and acted accordingly, as only Jews can
. . . with total hatred.

In truth, there is more spirituality in a starving street cat than in the
typical comic-to-himself-or-herself Yew.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:49:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 5:46:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

Having trouble with simple reading comprehension I see.
 Liquidating 60%
  means what poor Mr. Snead?

********** Now you are going to try to accuse the Nazis of having very large
blenders? You Jews just keep inventing more lies.

No answer I see. You even left out the exchange, perhaps because after
 reading it a half dozen or so times, you finally figured it out!  Let's
 have a look, shall we?

 ******OK

 << On the whole it can be said that
  about
  60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per
 cent
  can be used for forced labor.

  Philip Mathews
   >>
 *******And I said,"
 Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists didn't
 expect  to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse
at
 physical labor than any other race.

 (End old post)


 Now, try again to answer the question. How can it prove only some
 antisemitic notion of labor utility of Jews when it clearly talks about
 liquidating 60%? Care to attempt to rescue any remaining credibility
 you might have?

 ******Not the big blenders again....How many 12-15 million?


 >
 >  Interestingly, the Nazis estimated European Jewish population at
 around
 >  11 million before the Holocaust. What's 60% of 11 million?

 Gee, no response here either. Math too hard for you?

 ********************I told you to figure it out, That I knew what the answer
was...Let me give you a hint, More than half plus 20% of the remaining.....
 >
 >  Philip Mathews
 >
 >   >>
 > If they (Nazis) used 100% (Jews) as forced labor they had a poor
 labor force.

 Still having trouble with simple comprehension eh. Try again, the diary
 entry gave specific percentages.

************A diary huh? You should have read the diary I found.....some good
stuff.



 > I know the answer but you are the one having trouble with math so you
 tell me
 > and show your work and I will let you know if you are right..

 HEHEHEHE. This ought to be good, given your mathematical performance so
 far!!!

*******HEHEHEHE Thank you......chuckle, snicker, giggle.....ha ha ha

Try answering the questions you've been running from.

 Philip Mathews

 OK,
Michael Snead
    14/abb
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:54:43 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 5:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< >
 > Phil,
 >     Is this another attempt on you trying to stroke your ego? You loose
 again.

 You mean you do!  Running away, and not very good at covering up that
 fact either. And the word is lose.

 (end repost)

 Yup, you're still running away, but you've learned a smidgen more
 English than you knew befor!!

 Philip Mathews

  >>
HAHAHAHA  "befor"? or is it "before" ?

Michael Snead
   14/abb
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:57:13 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 6:04:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists didn't
expect
 > to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews are worse at
 > physical labor than any other race.

 They are? Which scientific studies established this, Michael?
  >>

They are? What studies?
Michael Snead
   14/abb
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:00:06 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Auschwitz death toll is reduced to 1.5M: Warsaw, Poland (UPI) - Newly
released documents confirm that 1.5 million victims died at the Nazi
concentration camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau during World War II, not 4 million -
as claimed by the former Soviet Union; Jewish and Polish officials said
yesterday.

    Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a member of the Council for Dialogue between
Poles and Jews, said the official account of the number of victims was
reduced following verification of archives recently returned by Soviet
authorities to Poland.

    Polish Communist authorities used the 4 million figure because it was
established by a postwar Soviet commission on Nazi crimes."

    This would reduce the total number of so-called victims, even using the 6
million figure to 3.5 million.

    Some prominent Jews, when confronted with the indisputable facts, have
even admitted that the so-called gas chambers were fabrications of the
Russian Communist Jews, just as the number of 4 million dead at Auschwitz was
a fabrication. Notice in the above article that the information proving that
only 1.5 million died at Auschwitz-Birkenau was found in archives returned to
Poland by the 'soviets. Also, "Polish Communist authorities used the number
because it was established by a postwar Soviet commission on Nazi crimes." In
addition to this, the soviets have admitted that they "rebuilt" the "original
buildings" that were supposedly destroyed by them after "liberation." Even
the curator and director of Auschwitz museum has admitted that the "gas
chambers" were altered and reconstructed by the Russians after the war. The
Communist Soviets provided the figures and held the evidence.

    Everyone admits that the Germans were meticulous record keepers, and the
actual records of those people that died in the camps were confiscated by the
Soviets. When the Soviets finally allowed the Red cross access to the records
in 1989, it was revealed in 46 books the names of those that died at
Auschwitz and the causes of death. The total: 70,000. The Soviets did not
allow them access to the books for the year of 1944, but those books could
account for the remaining dead. Even then, however, it is probably true that
the numbers may not even add up to the new 1.5 million figure. Now that this
is released, we find that they inflated the number from 1.5 million to over 4
million (Keep in mind that the 1.5 million dead is cited as the number of
"victims," not Jews alone).

    The Soviets purposely lied about the 4 million dead, and they built the
buildings now standing at the camps (This information should come as no
surprise, as the Jews have been the absolute rulers of Russia since 1917. And
it would be expected that the Jews ruling Russia would help the other Jews of
the world to foster and perpetuate their holocaust lie). Most historians
agree that it is impossible that six million people were gassed in gas
chambers and then burned in a crematorium. The fact shows that it would have
taken 68 years to gas 6 million people, and that it would take 35 years to
cremate 6 million bodies if the crematoriums at the camps operated 24 hours a
day, every day, cremating the maximum number of bodies that they could hold.

    Much of the misinformation was fabricated by the Stalin regime of Soviet
Russia during the post-war years. Stalin (being Jewish himself)knew how to
feed the hysteria of the Russian Jew population. On one hand he backed them
with exaggerated holocaust stories, pretending to be in sympathy with their
world Zionist cause, which induced the Jews to steal state secrets about
atomic energy and even their modern missile technology form the United States
to give to the Soviets (And since the Jews are the most traitorous people on
earth, it would come natural for them to betray the United States and its
people, for they have betrayed every people and nation they have ever lived
in and among). Yet, history shows that whenever a great number of Jews (who
were not of the proper lineage or beliefs) began to rise to prominence in the
Communist government, Stalin did not hesitate to liquidate them by periodic
purges of the intellectual Zionistic Jews in Communist Russia. In the late
1930s Stalin began a campaign against influential members of the Communist
Party; even those who had put him in power were murdered. His political
enemies were numbered in the "tens of millions." (The New Encyclopedia
Britannica)

    Since 1945 there have been many conflicting claims concerning the numbers
of Jewish people (and others) who died at Auschwitz-Birkeneu (Oswiecim,
concentration camp). However, it is only recent research and access to
hitherto unavailable documents, that these numbers have drastically lowered,
possibly indicating that more of our people survive. Perhaps the 6 mills
often publicized (though our best figure is 4.3 million) may also need to be
revised lower, we hope so.

Dr. Nathan Nussbaum,
Honorary Director,
Center for Jewish Holocaust Studies.

    According to official documents in the French Republic (institute for the
Examination of War-criminals) the number that died in Auschwitz was: 8,000,000

    According to the French daily newspaper "Le Monde" (20 April, 1978):
5,000,000

    According to the memorial plaque on the gas-chamber monument at
Auschwitz-Birkenau (later removed in 1990 by the Polish Government): 4,000,000

    According to the "confession" of Rudolf Hoess, the last commandant of
Auschwitz. G.V. interrogation record and written statement before his
"suicide": 3,000,000

    According to a statement by Yeduha Bauer, Director of the Institute for
Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem: 1,600,000

    According to "La Monde" (1 September 1989): 1,433,000

    According to Prof. Raul Hilberg (Professor for Holocaust Research, and
author of the book, "The Annihilation of European Jewry," 2nd. ed. 1988:
1,250,000

    According to Polish historians, G.V. DPA - Report of July 1990 and
corresponding public announcements: 1,100,000

    According to Gerald Reitlinger, author of "Die Endlbsun": 850,000
                                               _________

    In the autumn of 1989 the Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev opened
Soviet archives, and the public saw for the first time, the complete register
of deaths at Auschwitz - which speaks as a key document of 74,000 dead.

    There were, no doubt a considerable number of individuals who were put to
death as enemies of the German government. Nevertheless, the majority of
people who died in the concentration camp labor system died first of natural
causes and old age, or secondly, they died of dysentery, dehydration, typhus
and other such diseases relating to our caused by malnutrition. Tuberculosis
was s contributing factor, and it is to be remembered that we did not have
the sophisticated medicines then as we have today. Those in the concentration
camps died, just as many Germans, of malnutrition and disease.

    The internment camps in the United States that were filled with Japanese
internees suffered many of the same problems as the German concentration
camps. Japanese internees lost their property, their businesses and a great
number of them lost their lives due to natural causes and diseases while
interned in the American concentration camps.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax -6- by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:02:43 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin

    It is to be remembered that if the Germans had been able to bomb the
American food supply, which usually came by railroad and prevent the
Americans from feeding the Japanese concentration camps, the death rate among
the Japanese would have been far greater.

    It is also to be remembered that if the Japanese had been left in their
communities it is more than likely that they would have fallen victim to
rioting mobs of Americans, especially after the Bataan death march and the
Japanese murders of thousands of defenseless prisoners. A poll taken at that
time proves the fact that Americans hated the Japanese. The poll showed that
Californians would have voted 10 to 1 against allowing the Japanese in the
camps back on the street. (The Journal of Historical Review) Roosevelt may
(unwittingly) have saved many Japanese lives by interning them in these camps.

    In addition to these facts, while the Japanese interned in American camps
were accused of committing no crimes and were legally established citizens of
America, the Jews interned in the German camps were convicted criminals. They
were guilty of murder, theft, arson, and sabotage. Also, the Jews living in
Germany were truly foreigners, as they had not been full citizens of Germany
before the war. (The Journal of Historical Review) Why, when a considerably
greater injustice was done to the Japanese of America during that time, have
not been showered with sympathy and money? Why are there no memorials to
these people, when there are fifty Jewish holocaust memorials in America
alone? Why were the Americans not indicted for crimes against humanity, as
they tore Japanese Americans from their homes and businesses, even though
they were charged with no crime, just as it is claimed the Germans did with
the Jews? The answer is that the Jews are telling lies and playing on the
sympathy of American taxpayers because they know that they are getting all of
the ignorant population to fund the creation of the Zionist state they so
desire. But more so than this, they know that they are also keeping True
White Christians from speaking the truth about the Jew and his ways. No
longer can White Christians speak the truth about the Jew without fear of
persecution, imprisonment, or death.

    If the American government had not interned the American Japanese
population, it is more than likely that there would have been no Japanese
population at the end of World War II. Much the same argument must be made in
regards to the German Jew. Resentment of the materialistic criminal Jew had
gained such force in Germany that those Jews who had not fled the country
were in danger of systematic murder by the German population who, in most
cases, the Jew had personally victimized. It was therefore expedient for the
German government, for the sake of protecting the Jew, to place the remaining
Jews in controlled surroundings, fundamentally protecting them from the
Germans, Polish, Ukrainian populations.

    In exactly the same way, it was necessary for the American government to
intern the American Japanese population. The difference in the outcome may be
seen only in understanding that the Americans and British willfully bombed
the trains of Germany that supplied much needed food and medicine to the
internment camp workers and thereby escalated starvation, and those diseases
accompanying shortages of food and water. The record showed clearly that it
was the intention of the Germans to feed, clothe and house the detainees
until such time as they could be repopulated safely to either Madagascar or
the Middle East. When we look at this period of history it is important to
remember that Hitler employed an entire division of the German army for the
express purpose of collecting and preserving Jewish antiquities during the
war.

    And so, telling the truth about history is a subject that must never be
stifled or prevented in a land that seeks to preserve its heritage of freedom
of speech. It is the atheistic Jew who would destroy the Constitution and the
Bill of Rights in order to impose his atheistic, materialistic insane values
upon the modern world. Thus, the Jew has invented, along with his Jewish
Communist brothers, the blatant lie that 6 million holocaust victims were
Jews.

    Moreover, he has used this lie to create a Jewish hysteria regarding the
National Socialist government of Germany, which is based on half- truths and
the Zionistic Jewish hysterical point of view. The tragedy is that White
Americans, whose armies and nations rescued the Jew form his European fate,
are now the ones being charged with hate crimes if they dare to speak the
objective truth in their own country. The Jew would have it be a crime to
even dare to disagree with the Jew, regardless of one's nationality. Whenever
Americans are told that they cannot hold dissenting opinions with world
Jewry, then freedom of speech and freedom of thought has ceased to exist in
the "land of the free."

    While it is possible to lament and feel sorry for the millions of
Americans who sacrificed and died during World War II, and it is even
possible to have the same sympathy for the millions of Russians and Germans,
the Jew would like the American people to only exercise pity and empathy for
the Jews who succumbed to dysentery and malnutrition. The Jew would like the
White Man to forget about all the Americans solders who died fighting the
Germans and Japanese and who now lay in hundreds of graveyards on foreign
soil. The Jews would like to continue presenting a historically inaccurate
view of World War II, so that they might reap a present political advantage
in manipulating public opinion to continue taking from the American tax
payers billions of dollars for  Israel. Let us assume that 3.5 million Jews
did die of disease and malnutrition at the hands of the Germans. What is that
compared to the tens of millions of Ukrainian Russians who died at the
fiendish hands of Stalin and his brother Jews?

    The Encyclopedia Britannica cites that Stalin forced 25,000,000
households of Russian peasants to move onto collective farms. Those who
resisted were collected, shot, attacked, exiled, or placed in Russian
concentration camps. This system, called collectivism, also resulted in a
great famine in the Ukraine. Although Stalin had provisions he could have
sent there, he instead decided to export them. The Britannica claims that
10,000,000 perished under the system of collectivism, however the numbers
show that the death toll over Stalin's total regime rings closer to
18,000,000. Today, mass graves in Russia are still uncovered monthly, and
yet, no mass graves are being discovered in Germany.

    Should we not have a Russian Holocaust memorial in Washington, D.C. to
remember the millions of Ukrainians starved to death by Stalin and his
brother Jews? When asked how many Jews died in the concentration camps,
almost everyone will give the number 6 million, even though most historians
acknowledge this to be a fabricated number. How many can tell you the number
of Ukrainians that perished or the number of Germans, or even the number of
American soldiers that died in the war? There are millions of Americans who
questioned why American tax payers' money should be used to build a holocaust
memorial on American soil. The answer comes back that we should never forget
the tragedies of World War II. By that they mean the death of some Jews. If
we are looking to commemorate cases of willful genocide, then there is no
more of a clear case of willful genocide than Stalin's starvation of millions
of Ukrainians. Or more recently, Paolpot's murders of millions of Cambodians.

    We are forced to ask, "Why is there such special treatment for an
atheistic, materialistic people who are self-professed Christ-hating
Antichrists and who have done little more in history than act as parasites
against the host nations where they have lived?"

    "The Jews as outcasts: Jews have been a wondering people from the time of
the beginning. History is filled with peremptory edicts, expelling Jews from
where they had made their homes. At times the edicts were the result of
trumped up charges against the Jews or Judaism, and later proved to be false.
At other times they were the consequence of economic situation, which the
authorities believed would be improved if the Jews were removed. Almost
always the bands were only temporary as below. The culminate impact on the
psychic on the Jewish people however, has been traumatic. And may very well
be indelible. The following is a list, far from complete. Hardly a major
Jewish community has not been expelled by its Host Country. Only to be let
back in again, later to be expelled once more." (Jewish Almanac 1981, p. 127)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:17:01 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1412
> In a message dated 9/20/99 5:46:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> Having trouble with simple reading comprehension I see.
>  Liquidating 60%
>   means what poor Mr. Snead?
>
> ********** Now you are going to try to accuse the Nazis of having
very large
> blenders? You Jews just keep inventing more lies.
>
Hehehe. Now you're saying Goebbels was a Jew?

>
> No answer I see. You even left out the exchange, perhaps because after
>  reading it a half dozen or so times, you finally figured it out!
Let's
>  have a look, shall we?
>
>  ******OK
>
>  << On the whole it can be said that
>   about
>   60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per
>  cent
>   can be used for forced labor.
>
>   Philip Mathews
>    >>
>  *******And I said,"
>  Well, If this is true then all it proves that the Nazi elitists
didn't
>  expect  to get much work done from the laborer being that the Jews
are worse
> at
>  physical labor than any other race.
>
>  (End old post)
>
>
>  Now, try again to answer the question. How can it prove only some
>  antisemitic notion of labor utility of Jews when it clearly talks
about
>  liquidating 60%? Care to attempt to rescue any remaining credibility
>  you might have?
>
>  ******Not the big blenders again....How many 12-15 million?

I take that as a feeble acknowledgement that Goebbels was talking about
the extermination of the Jews. Thank you.

>
>
>  >
>  >  Interestingly, the Nazis estimated European Jewish population at
>  around
>  >  11 million before the Holocaust. What's 60% of 11 million?
>
>  Gee, no response here either. Math too hard for you?
>
>  ********************I told you to figure it out, That I knew what
the answer
> was...Let me give you a hint, More than half plus 20% of the
remaining....

And the answer is............? Come on Snead, you can do it. It's very
similar to a number often associated with the Holocaust. Give it a try!

.
>  >
>  >  Philip Mathews
>  >
>  >   >>
>  > If they (Nazis) used 100% (Jews) as forced labor they had a poor
>  labor force.
>
>  Still having trouble with simple comprehension eh. Try again, the
diary
>  entry gave specific percentages.
>
> ************A diary huh? You should have read the diary I
found.....some good
> stuff.

Have you figured out yet why it was stupid of you to use 100%?

>
>
>
>  > I know the answer but you are the one having trouble with math so
you
>  tell me
>  > and show your work and I will let you know if you are right..
>
>  HEHEHEHE. This ought to be good, given your mathematical performance
so
>  far!!!
>
> *******HEHEHEHE Thank you......chuckle, snicker, giggle.....ha ha ha
>
> Try answering the questions you've been running from.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>  OK,

OK what, you're going to continue to run? Poor Snead.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:18:14 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1413
> In a message dated 9/20/99 5:52:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << >
>  > Phil,
>  >     Is this another attempt on you trying to stroke your ego? You
loose
>  again.
>
>  You mean you do!  Running away, and not very good at covering up that
>  fact either. And the word is lose.
>
>  (end repost)
>
>  Yup, you're still running away, but you've learned a smidgen more
>  English than you knew befor!!
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   >>
> HAHAHAHA  "befor"? or is it "before" ?

Still running away I see!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:54:28 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1415
> From: Willie Martin 
>
>     Auschwitz death toll is reduced to 1.5M: Warsaw, Poland (UPI) -
Newly
> released documents confirm that 1.5 million victims died at the Nazi
> concentration camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau during World War II, not 4
million -
> as claimed by the former Soviet Union; Jewish and Polish officials
said
> yesterday.
>
>
>     Wladyslaw Bartoszewski, a member of the Council for Dialogue
between
> Poles and Jews, said the official account of the number of victims
was
> reduced following verification of archives recently returned by
Soviet
> authorities to Poland.
>
>     Polish Communist authorities used the 4 million figure because it
was
> established by a postwar Soviet commission on Nazi crimes."
>
>     This would reduce the total number of so-called victims, even
using the 6
> million figure to 3.5 million.

Nope. One thing has nothing to do with the other. First, you need to
understand that historians not under Soviet control have known for
almost 50 years that the number of Jews killed at Auschwitz was closer
to 1.5 million. Reitlinger, in 1953, estimated as low as 900,000.
Second, the estimated dead at the individual camps is seperate and
apart from the estimates for the Holocaust as a whole. The total was
based on population studies, not the sum of individual camps.
Therefore, the Soviet acquiesence to changing the Auschwitz number to
what historians had known for decades was a more accurate estimate has
no impact on the Holocaust total of 6 million.

>
>     Some prominent Jews, when confronted with the indisputable facts,
have
> even admitted that the so-called gas chambers were fabrications of
the
> Russian Communist Jews, just as the number of 4 million dead at
Auschwitz was
> a fabrication.

No prominent Jews admit any such thing, which is why the author
includes no support for this ridiculous point.  And the Soviet figure
of 4 million was not a fabrication, but an error in the number of days
they assumed the crematoria of Auschwitz were operating at full
capacity.

 Notice in the above article that the information proving that
> only 1.5 million died at Auschwitz-Birkenau was found in archives
returned to
> Poland by the 'soviets. Also, "Polish Communist authorities used the
number
> because it was established by a postwar Soviet commission on Nazi
crimes."

It was not found in Soviet Archives. The more accurate estimate has
been known for decades and is based on Nazi transporation records.

 In
> addition to this, the soviets have admitted that they "rebuilt" the
"original
> buildings" that were supposedly destroyed by them after "liberation."

Again false. This statement refers to 1 of the 5 gas chambers, and the
building housing it was not rebuilt, so the author is wrong on two
counts. After serving as a gas chamber in which a relatively small
number of Jews were gassed, Krema I in the Auschwitz main camp was
converted to an Air Raid Shelter. This alteration included sealing up
the holes the Zyklon was introduced through and partitioning the room.
The only "rebuilding" done was the removal of the wall and the
re-opening of the holes.

 Even
> the curator and director of Auschwitz museum has admitted that the
"gas
> chambers" were altered and reconstructed by the Russians after the
war.

The changes discussed above were made to return the room to its
original state as a gas chamber.

The
> Communist Soviets provided the figures and held the evidence.

No they didn't.

>
>     Everyone admits that the Germans were meticulous record keepers,
and the
> actual records of those people that died in the camps were
confiscated by the
> Soviets. When the Soviets finally allowed the Red cross access to the
records
> in 1989, it was revealed in 46 books the names of those that died at
> Auschwitz and the causes of death.

False. No records of deaths were kept for those gassed immediately upon
arrival and not registered in the books of the camp. This was the vast
majority of those sent to Auschwitz. Over 1.4 million Jews were shipped
to Auschwitz. Only a little over 400,000 were registered upon arrival
and admitted to the camp. The remainder were gassed within a short time
after arrival.

 The total: 70,000. The Soviets did not
> allow them access to the books for the year of 1944, but those books
could
> account for the remaining dead. Even then, however, it is probably
true that
> the numbers may not even add up to the new 1.5 million figure. Now
that this
> is released, we find that they inflated the number from 1.5 million
to over 4
> million (Keep in mind that the 1.5 million dead is cited as the
number of
> "victims," not Jews alone).

The Soviets were not the only people who knew about and had access to
these books. In addition the Nazis testified extensively about them. As
pointed out, the 4 million number was not inflated, but an error in
estimating.  Of the 1.5 million killed, about 80% were Jews.

>
>     The Soviets purposely lied about the 4 million dead, and they
built the
> buildings now standing at the camps (This information should come as
no
> surprise, as the Jews have been the absolute rulers of Russia since
1917.

No they didn't, as discussed above.

And
> it would be expected that the Jews ruling Russia would help the other
Jews of
> the world to foster and perpetuate their holocaust lie).

Stalin ruled Russia, not Jews. This is idiotic Jew hating.

 Most historians
> agree that it is impossible that six million people were gassed in
gas
> chambers and then burned in a crematorium.

Since no historian, nor anyone else has ever said that 6 million Jews
were gassed, one must wonder just how poor Mr. Martin's understanding
of Holocaust facts really is!

 The fact shows that it would have
> taken 68 years to gas 6 million people, and that it would take 35
years to
> cremate 6 million bodies if the crematoriums at the camps operated 24
hours a
> day, every day, cremating the maximum number of bodies that they
could hold.

Oh, what facts are those?  Mr. Martin must think he's at the fairground
again, preaching to flock who doubt not a word he says.  Substantial
evidence and research has been done on these issues. This numbers are
pure fabrication on Martin's part, which is probably why he favors us
with no explanation.

>
>     Much of the misinformation was fabricated by the Stalin regime of
Soviet
> Russia during the post-war years. Stalin (being Jewish himself)knew
how to
> feed the hysteria of the Russian Jew population. On one hand he
backed them
> with exaggerated holocaust stories, pretending to be in sympathy with
their
> world Zionist cause, which induced the Jews to steal state secrets
about
> atomic energy and even their modern missile technology form the
United States

Stalin was not Jewish, and Martin presents no evidence for his wild
conspiracy theory.

(boring antisemitc screed snipped)
>
>     Since 1945 there have been many conflicting claims concerning the
numbers
> of Jewish people (and others) who died at Auschwitz-Birkeneu
(Oswiecim,
> concentration camp).

No there have not.

 However, it is only recent research and access to
> hitherto unavailable documents, that these numbers have drastically
lowered,
> possibly indicating that more of our people survive

Not true as discussed above. The accurate number has been known for
decades, from documentation open to historians.

>     According to official documents in the French Republic (institute
for the
> Examination of War-criminals) the number that died in Auschwitz was:
8,000,000

A lie.

>
>     According to the French daily newspaper "Le Monde" (20 April,
1978):
> 5,000,000

A lie.

>
>     According to the memorial plaque on the gas-chamber monument at
> Auschwitz-Birkenau (later removed in 1990 by the Polish Government):
4,000,000

A paque is not history.

>
>     According to the "confession" of Rudolf Hoess, the last
commandant of
> Auschwitz. G.V. interrogation record and written statement before his
> "suicide": 3,000,000

False. Hoess did not commit suicide. He was tried, convicted and hung.
While awaiting death he wrote an autobiography in which his estimate
was substantially lower. None of the camp commandants knew the numbers
shipped to and killed at the camps. That information was collected and
kept in Berlin.

>
>     According to a statement by Yeduha Bauer, Director of the
Institute for
> Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem: 1,600,000

Yes, close to the 1,500,000.

>
>     According to "La Monde" (1 September 1989): 1,433,000

Yup. Very close to the current best estimate.

>
>     According to Prof. Raul Hilberg (Professor for Holocaust
Research, and
> author of the book, "The Annihilation of European Jewry," 2nd. ed.
1988:
> 1,250,000

Jewish deaths, not total. Mr. Martin confuses these different totals in
these "citations" not being very scholarly or concerned with the truth.

>
>     According to Polish historians, G.V. DPA - Report of July 1990
and
> corresponding public announcements: 1,100,000
>
>     According to Gerald Reitlinger, author of "Die Endlbsun": 850,000

Yes, all well under the 4 million believed for so long by the Soviets.
Mr. Martin proves the point.

>                                                _________
>
>     In the autumn of 1989 the Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev
opened
> Soviet archives, and the public saw for the first time, the complete
register
> of deaths at Auschwitz - which speaks as a key document of 74,000
dead.

False. These records were not seen for the first time.

>
>     There were, no doubt a considerable number of individuals who
were put to
> death as enemies of the German government. Nevertheless, the majority
of
> people who died in the concentration camp labor system died first of
natural
> causes and old age, or secondly, they died of dysentery, dehydration,
typhus
> and other such diseases relating to our caused by malnutrition.

False. Mr. Martin has no evidence for this statement, while the
evidence for the murder of six million Jews by various means is massive.

 Tuberculosis
> was s contributing factor, and it is to be remembered that we did not
have
> the sophisticated medicines then as we have today. Those in the
concentration
> camps died, just as many Germans, of malnutrition and disease.

Many Germans did not die from malnutrion and disease. To the extent
disease contributed, it was the responsibility of the Nazis who
permitted sanitary conditions conducive to the creation of such disease.

>
>     The internment camps in the United States that were filled with
Japanese
> internees suffered many of the same problems as the German
concentration
> camps.

They suffered none of the same problems, since 6 million Jews died and
no Japanese died.

 Japanese internees lost their property, their businesses and a great
> number of them lost their lives due to natural causes and diseases
while
> interned in the American concentration camps.

Every statement  is false, which is not surprising, since Mr. Martin
has shown a propensity for lying almost as great as his ignorance.

Philip Mathews



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -6- by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:46:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1416
> From: Willie Martin
>
>     It is to be remembered that if the Germans had been able to bomb
the
> American food supply, which usually came by railroad and prevent the
> Americans from feeding the Japanese concentration camps, the death
rate among
> the Japanese would have been far greater.

It should be remembered that no such problems prevented the Germans
from feeding those they had in camps. This is more fabrication.

>
>     It is also to be remembered that if the Japanese had been left in
their
> communities it is more than likely that they would have fallen victim
to
> rioting mobs of Americans, especially after the Bataan death march
and the
> Japanese murders of thousands of defenseless prisoners. A poll taken
at that
> time proves the fact that Americans hated the Japanese. The poll
showed that
> Californians would have voted 10 to 1 against allowing the Japanese
in the
> camps back on the street. (The Journal of Historical Review)
Roosevelt may
> (unwittingly) have saved many Japanese lives by interning them in
these camps.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with the Nazis and what they did to
Jews.

>
>     In addition to these facts, while the Japanese interned in
American camps
> were accused of committing no crimes and were legally established
citizens of
> America, the Jews interned in the German camps were convicted
criminals.

No they weren't. Absolute rubbish for which Martin offers not one
scintilla of proof. Millions of Jews were sent to camps, including the
elderly and children. It had nothing to do with being criminals.

They
> were guilty of murder, theft, arson, and sabotage.

All lies.

 Also, the Jews living in
> Germany were truly foreigners, as they had not been full citizens of
Germany
> before the war.

False. They were full citizens until the Nuremberg laws took it away.
Jews had been part of Geman culture for 400 years. And it should be
remembered that German Jews accounted for less than 10% of European
Jews.

 (The Journal of Historical Review) Why, when a considerably
> greater injustice was done to the Japanese of America during that
time, have
> not been showered with sympathy and money?

Only a Jew hating fool would compare the admittedly unjust treatment of
Japanese Americans during the war to the genocide of 6 million Jews.

 Why are there no memorials to
> these people, when there are fifty Jewish holocaust memorials in
America
> alone? Why were the Americans not indicted for crimes against
humanity, as
> they tore Japanese Americans from their homes and businesses, even
though
> they were charged with no crime, just as it is claimed the Germans
did with
> the Jews?

Because it wasn't a crime against humanity and it wasn't "just as it is
claimed the Germans did with the Jews". Murder over against unjust
internment under very livable conditions is a distinction which even a
Jew hating moron should be capable of.

(snip more boring unsupported antisemitism)


>
>     If the American government had not interned the American Japanese
> population, it is more than likely that there would have been no
Japanese
> population at the end of World War II. Much the same argument must be
made in
> regards to the German Jew.

Martin is so ignorant of the Holocaust that he keeps talking of the
German Jew, of which there were perhaps 600,000, when the effects of
the Holocaust were felt by all 9 million European Jews.  So his attempt
equating of German Jews with Japanese Americans is bullshit.

 Resentment of the materialistic criminal Jew had
> gained such force in Germany that those Jews who had not fled the
country
> were in danger of systematic murder by the German population who, in
most
> cases, the Jew had personally victimized. It was therefore expedient
for the
> German government, for the sake of protecting the Jew, to place the
remaining
> Jews in controlled surroundings, fundamentally protecting them from
the
> Germans, Polish, Ukrainian populations.

There was no such concern with protecting Jews. Please note that, like
most deniers, Martin will wonder from one lying excuse to another to
make their case, even when they are contradictory! A few minutes he
lead us to believe millions of Jews were put into camps because they
were criminals, now it's because the kind Nazis wanted to protect them!

>
>     In exactly the same way, it was necessary for the American
government to
> intern the American Japanese population.

Nonsense. Japanese Americans were interned because of wartime hysteria
aided by racism, and it was wrong. But it was nothing like the Nazi
Holocaust.

 The difference in the outcome may be
> seen only in understanding that the Americans and British willfully
bombed
> the trains of Germany that supplied much needed food and medicine to
the
> internment camp workers and thereby escalated starvation, and those
diseases

False. There was plenty of food until immediately after the war.

> accompanying shortages of food and water. The record showed clearly
that it
> was the intention of the Germans to feed, clothe and house the
detainees
> until such time as they could be repopulated safely to either
Madagascar or
> the Middle East.

The record shows that the Madagascar Plan was a pipe dream abandoned in
1941 and the record shows the Nazis opposed at all costs the
establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine,  something they viewed as
inevitable if Jews were allowed to emigrate there in large numbers.

 When we look at this period of history it is important to
> remember that Hitler employed an entire division of the German army
for the
> express purpose of collecting and preserving Jewish antiquities
during the
> war.

Jewish antiquities were stolen by the Nazis and hidden for the Reich
and in many cases the personal aggrandisement of the leadership.

>
>     And so, telling the truth about history is a subject that must
never be
> stifled or prevented in a land that seeks to preserve its heritage of
freedom
> of speech. It is the atheistic Jew who would destroy the Constitution
and the
> Bill of Rights in order to impose his atheistic, materialistic insane
values
> upon the modern world. Thus, the Jew has invented, along with his
Jewish
> Communist brothers, the blatant lie that 6 million holocaust victims
were
> Jews.

Historians, not Jews, have written the historical record of the
Holocaust. It remains one of the most documented events in history and
all the bluster from all the Jews haters throughout all the centuries
will have no impact on that unalterable fact.

>
>     Moreover, he has used this lie to create a Jewish hysteria
regarding the
> National Socialist government of Germany, which is based on half-
truths and
> the Zionistic Jewish hysterical point of view.

The sins of Nazism is well documented by historians and the reputation
of National Socialism well deserved. Ask any liberating American G.I.

 The tragedy is that White
> Americans, whose armies and nations rescued the Jew form his European
fate,

African Americans and Jewish Americans fought in the same war.

> are now the ones being charged with hate crimes if they dare to speak
the
> objective truth in their own country.

They don't speak the objective truth, and speaking nonsense is not
considered a hate crime in this country.

 The Jew would have it be a crime to
> even dare to disagree with the Jew, regardless of one's nationality.

Another nonsensical lie.

Whenever
> Americans are told that they cannot hold dissenting opinions with
world
> Jewry, then freedom of speech and freedom of thought has ceased to
exist in
> the "land of the free."

Mr. Martin can present no evidence that this has ever happened. I fear
he is not much in touch with reality.

>
>     While it is possible to lament and feel sorry for the millions of
> Americans who sacrificed and died during World War II, and it is even
> possible to have the same sympathy for the millions of Russians and
Germans,
> the Jew would like the American people to only exercise pity and
empathy for
> the Jews who succumbed to dysentery and malnutrition.

False. Mr. Martin likes to repeat his foolish lies frequently. They
were murdered with gas, bullets, medical experimentation, starvation
and deliberately caused disease.

(more boring, drooling Jew hating snipped)

 l. Let us assume that 3.5 million Jews
> did die of disease and malnutrition at the hands of the Germans.

No, since it's false.

 What is that
> compared to the tens of millions of Ukrainian Russians who died at
the
> fiendish hands of Stalin and his brother Jews?

They are both terrible.

>
>     The Encyclopedia Britannica cites that Stalin forced 25,000,000
> households of Russian peasants to move onto collective farms. Those
who
> resisted were collected, shot, attacked, exiled, or placed in Russian
> concentration camps. This system, called collectivism, also resulted
in a
> great famine in the Ukraine. Although Stalin had provisions he could
have
> sent there, he instead decided to export them. The Britannica claims
that
> 10,000,000 perished under the system of collectivism, however the
numbers
> show that the death toll over Stalin's total regime rings closer to
> 18,000,000. Today, mass graves in Russia are still uncovered monthly,
and
> yet, no mass graves are being discovered in Germany.

Terrible and irrelevant to the facts of the Holocaust. By the way,
since Jews weren't buried in mass graves in Germany, why would they
discover any?

(more boring Jew hating snipped)

>     We are forced to ask, "Why is there such special treatment for an
> atheistic, materialistic people who are self-professed Christ-hating
> Antichrists and who have done little more in history than act as
parasites
> against the host nations where they have lived?"

They are not atheistic, Christ haters, of parasites. You, however, are
an omoeba.

As even the mentally challenged Mr. Snead should be able to see, Mr.
Martin knows nothing about the Holocaust, or much of anything else.
What he does know  is he hates Jews.  I say, tough shit.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Goebbels Diary Entries on Jewish Extermination
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:18:55 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/20/99 6:04:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
> writes:
>
> "They are? Which scientific studies established this, Michael?"

> They are? What studies?

Your failure to provide us with the source of your contention is noted. Thank you
for admitting you have none.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:24:18 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant

 (A Holocaust denier drags out the old "Auschwitz Gambit" in a futile attempt to
bury reality beneath smoke and mirrors...)

See
http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.html
for a definitive and well-documented response to this old canard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 5 Rebuttal, Philip Mathew Lies Again - Willie is Right
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:26:54 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 8:55:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<<   According to the "confession" of Rudolf Hoess, the last
 commandant of
 > Auschwitz. G.V. interrogation record and written statement before his
 > "suicide": 3,000,000

 False. Hoess did not commit suicide. He was tried, convicted and hung.
 While awaiting death he wrote an autobiography in which his estimate
 was substantially lower. None of the camp commandants knew the numbers
 shipped to and killed at the camps. That information was collected and
 kept in Berlin.

  >>

Phil, This little paragraph right here let's me know that you will right
anything that comes to mind. You are a skillful liar that just plays into the
part with the majority of your race. Before I sent this post I added the "o"
in "Hess" to make it "Hoess". Now without any hesitation you stated that
"Hoess" was hung, (probably for killing 5.3 million Jews himself . If
you will remember Hess supposedly committed
suicide in the 1987 in Spandau Prison.
Michael Snead
     14/abb
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:32:06 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 11:34:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gormanh@home.com writes:

<< The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant

 (A Holocaust denier drags out the old "Auschwitz Gambit" in a futile attempt
to
 bury reality beneath smoke and mirrors...)

********Gorman, the only smoke and mirrors are the perpetual lies that you
post from the Bolshevik, Communistic, Socialist, Zionist, Marxist, Jewish
left.

 See
 http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.html
 for a definitive and well-documented response to this old canard.


 ********and read more of your false propaganda?
Michael Snead
   14/abb
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax 5 Rebuttal,Snead Confuses Hoess with Hess, Reveals His Ignorance
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:18:51 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1423
> In a message dated 9/20/99 8:55:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> <<   According to the "confession" of Rudolf Hoess, the last
>  commandant of
>  > Auschwitz. G.V. interrogation record and written statement before
his
>  > "suicide": 3,000,000
>
>  False. Hoess did not commit suicide. He was tried, convicted and
hung.
>  While awaiting death he wrote an autobiography in which his estimate
>  was substantially lower. None of the camp commandants knew the
numbers
>  shipped to and killed at the camps. That information was collected
and
>  kept in Berlin.
>
>   >>
>
> Phil, This little paragraph right here let's me know that you will
right
> anything that comes to mind. You are a skillful liar that just plays
into the
> part with the majority of your race. Before I sent this post I added
the "o"
> in "Hess" to make it "Hoess". Now without any hesitation you stated
that
> "Hoess" was hung, (probably for killing 5.3 million Jews himself
. If
> you will remember Hess supposedly committed
> suicide in the 1987 in Spandau Prison.

Poor Snead. Rudolf Ferdinand Hoess, commandant of Auschwitz, was tried,
convicted and hung. Rudolf Hess was not the commandant of Auschwitz,
but a different person. You and Mr. Martin are as ignorant as they come.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:20:03 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1424
> In a message dated 9/20/99 11:34:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gormanh@home.com writes:
>
> << The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant
>
>  (A Holocaust denier drags out the old "Auschwitz Gambit" in a futile
attempt
> to
>  bury reality beneath smoke and mirrors...)
>
> ********Gorman, the only smoke and mirrors are the perpetual lies
that you
> post from the Bolshevik, Communistic, Socialist, Zionist, Marxist,
Jewish
> left.

Poor Snead, as paranoid as they come!

Philip Mathews

>
>
>  See
>  http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.
html
>  for a definitive and well-documented response to this old canard.
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] A true Israelite!...
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:46:47 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

THE STRANGER
by Rudyard Kipling

The stranger within my gate,
He may be true or kind,
But he does not talk my talk -
I cannot feel his mind.
I see his face and the eyes and the mouth,
But not the soul behind.

The men of my own stock,
They may do ill or well,
But they tell the lies I am wonted to,
They are used to the lies I tell;
And we do not need interpreters
When we go to buy or sell.

The stranger within my gates,
He may be evil or good,
But I can not tell what powers control -
What reasons sway his mood;
Nor when the Gods of his far-off land
Shall repossess his blood.

The men of my own stock,
Bitter bad they may be,
But at least they hear the things I hear,
And see the things I see;
And what ever I think of them and their likes
They think of the likes of me.

This was my father's belief
And this is also mine:
Let the corn be all one sheaf -
And the grapes be all one vine,
Ere our children's teeth are set on edge
By bitter bread and wine.

Rudyard Kipling 1865-1936

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:11:15 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 9/20/99 11:34:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gormanh@home.com writes:
>
> << The Auschwitz Gambit: The Four Million Variant
>
>  (A Holocaust denier drags out the old "Auschwitz Gambit" in a futile attempt
> to
>  bury reality beneath smoke and mirrors...)
>
> Gorman, the only smoke and mirrors are the perpetual lies that you post from
> the Bolshevik, Communistic, Socialist, Zionist, Marxist, Jewish  left.

Your inability to establish your contentions by presenting supporting
documentation is noted, Michael. You see, it's one thing to claim something is a
lie, and quite another to establish the claim as fact.

>  See
>  http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/four-million-01.html
>  for a definitive and well-documented response to this old canard.
>
>
>  ********and read more of your false propaganda?

But it isn't my "propanda," Michael - and you have yet to establish that any
falsehoods exist within the cited material.

If you can do so, of course, you are welcome to. The reality, however, is that
you cannot do so.

But then, you knew that, didn't you, Michael?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax - 5 - by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:29:01 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:

> Poor Snead, as paranoid as they come!

Nah... I'd say it's more a case of low self-esteem, coupled with a
disfunctional family background and poor education. His inability to support
his bigoted contentions with facts - particularly with respect to the
Holocaust - are typical of those drawn to "Christian" Identity, which is,
after all, a recruiting device for folks otherwise too dense to fall for
normal nazi propaganda... it took the well known bigot Gerald L. K. Smith to
refine Identity into its present vitriolic form.

The discussion we've seen here during the past month has formed an
instructive set for those wanting to observe typical Identity reaction to
having their bigotry challenged. The standard responses, in the standard
order, may all be seen here.

First we saw the duplicitous labeling of the list as a "history discussion
group," when, in fact, it was a forum for the discussion and dissemination
of bigotry and hatred.

When faced with direct challenges to their bigotry, as expressed through
unsubstantiated antisemitic canards, the bigots responded in typical fashion
by demanding immediate censorship - the silencing of dissenting viewpoints.

When that failed, most of those who came here to indulge in a Judeophobic
circle-jerk simply left... avoidance rather than a willingness to actually
address their bigotry.

That left Michael Snead alone to play the parrot card... the shallow
attempts to flood the group with baseless material - i.e. Willie Martin's
rather sorry attempt to deny the Holocaust, and the thoroughly discredited
Leuchter Report... in short, the same baseless material that deniers have
been using for years to justify their hatred. When Snead is faced with
requests to substantiate his contentions, as we have seen and documented
here, he of course fails, because his contentions cannot be substantiated.

That doesn't leave him any room to manoever, except to fall back to the
traditional epithets and ad hominems which are so typical of the nazi
wannabees we've seen so often on the net.

Scratch Snead and discover Ronald Schoedel, Leslie Griswold, and the other
mental midgets who fantasize ("14/88") about jackboots and SS uniforms.

They are all the same.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] get a load of this
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:33:41 -0700
From: reiver@tca.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

NYT, Sun, Sept. 19, 1999

Office of the Cardinal
1011 First Avenue
New York,  NY 10022-4134

Sept. 8, 1999

My Dearest Friends:

The Jewish High Holy Days come once again, reminding our world
of who created it, who blesses it with life and who judges it in his
merciful justice. G-d [sic, and wouldn't ya know it?] who gives all
humanity the dignity of being made in his image, has chosen Israel as
his particular
people that they may be an example of faithfulness for all the
nations of the earth. With sincere love and true admiration for your
fidelity to the Covenant, I am happy once again to send my
greeting for a blessed New Year.

This Sabbath evening, as the celebration of Rosh Hashanah
commences, a new decade will begin. During the year of 5760 we
Christians will start a new era of the year 2000, the turn of another
millennium in our history. Our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II, has
asked all Christians to enter this new millennium in the spirit of
Jubilee. Part of their process of Jubilee is a call for teshhuva, or
repentance. Ash Wednesday, March 8th, has been specially set
aside as a day for Catholics to reflect upon the pain inflicted on the
Jewish people by many of our members over the last millennium.
We most sincerely want to start a new era.

I pray that as you begin a new decade, and as we begin another
millennium in our Jewish Christian relationship, we will refresh our
encounter with a new respect and even love for one another as
children of G-d [sic]. Working in our own ways, but also working
together, let us both remain committed to the fulfillment of G-d's
[sic] reign. I ask this Yom Kippur that you understand my own
abject sorrow for any member of the Catholic Church, high or low,
including myself, who may have harmed you or your forebears in
any way.

Be assured of my prayers and friendship. L'shnah tovah tikotevu!

Faithfully,
John Cardinal O'Connor
Archbishop of New York

__

This inspiring and courageous letter was sent by John Cardinal
O'Connor to his many Jewish friends. We are publishing it because
we believe it ought to be shared. We pray for his speedy recovery
so that he may continue his important work of bring people of all
faiths together for may years to come.

Victor J. Barnett
Elie Wiesel
James D. Wolfensohn

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:54:05 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 8:19:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Still running away I see!

 Philip Mathews >>

*******Still stroking I see, on all of your posts....What  to run from your
lies? You don't even have a clue.
Michael Snead
    14/abb
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -6- by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:00:01 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/20/99 9:48:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< (The Journal of Historical Review) Why, when a considerably
 > greater injustice was done to the Japanese of America during that
 time, have
 > not been showered with sympathy and money?

 Only a Jew hating fool would compare the admittedly unjust treatment of
 Japanese Americans during the war to the genocide of 6 million Jews.


  >>
Only because the Japanese didn't have control of the media, The so called
death camps, and the uncanny ability to lie.
Michael Snead
    14/abb
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax -7- by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:48:54 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Some ignorant and naive person may speak the Jewish line that they, the
Jews, are God's Chosen People. But this too is a Jewish myth, perpetrated by
the atheistic Jews for political advantage. The Christian Scripture declares
that it is the True Israelite People who are the Chosen People of Almighty
God.

    The Scriptures clearly show that the Jews are not to be allowed into your
household. Those who speak favorably of the Jews are participating in their
evil of denying Christ as the Son of God. And Jesus Himself has already
denied the Jews to be the Father for He said: "But whoever will deny me
before men, I also will deny Him before my Father Who is in heaven." (Matthew
10:33 AST) This also includes those who participate in their evil of denying
Christ. It is very strange that when we turn to our Bibles, we begin to get
an entirely different perception of world politics than what we are receiving
from our television sets. If indeed 3.5 million atheistic, Christ-hating Jews
had been systematically murdered by the Nazis, and we remind you that this by
no means has been proven to be the case, would that indeed be so great a
crime against mankind as was the Jews murdering the Lord Jesus Christ?

    Which of the two was innocent and unworthy of death? The 3.5 million
Jews, or the Lamb of God, Who was innocent and without a spot or wrinkle? The
Jew would like the deceived Christian to believe that the blood of Christ is
worthless and meaningless when compared to the blood of an atheistic Jew. But
the truth, is, if all the Jews and gypsies and God-hating Communists, put
together, were sacrificed upon some pagan alter, all their blood together
could not do what one drop of the innocent blood of Christ can do.

    In other words, there is no comparison between the blood of a billion
Christ-hating Jews and the blood of Jesus Christ. In most cases the
God-hating wretches reaped what they had sown upon and against White
Christian Nations. The Bible does not teach White Christian men and women to
feel sorry for the guilty, but only to have pity for the innocent. Anything
else is a blatant miscarriage and perversion of the very meaning of justice.
Thus, it must be said that too many Christians have taken their eyes off the
blood sacrifice of Calvary, and they have allowed the atheistic, Talmudic and
Zionistic Jew to manipulate their feelings of compassion and pity away form
the Son of God, and to invest that pity in the enemies of God.

    In 1936 a speech before the Royal Commission in Jerusalem, Chaim
Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization and Jewish Agency of
long years' standing, 1948 first President of the State of Israel, defined
the "Six Million" as a symbolic figure for the Jewish fate. (Chaim Weizmann,
"Reden + Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937) "The
world is taciturn, and it was only recently that we heard the Polish Foreign
Minister, Col. Beck, say in many interviews in Geneva and in his own country
and in Berlin that there were one million Jews too many in Poland...
    I do not wish to dwell on this subject any longer. I am not going to
engage the Commission's time more than necessary in order to describe what is
going on in Germany. It is too well known that I would have to go into more
precise details. This is the situation of roughly 3,600,000 Jews. Just over
three million of them are living in Poland, 600,000 were living in Germany in
1932, but this figure has decreased since.
    If we go on and take the Jews of Roumania, Lithuania and Austria into
consideration, then we have practically the same picture, and it is therefore
no exaggeration at all when I say that today six million; I am not talking
about the Jews in Persia and Marocco and in such countries which can only
give very uncertain information and about which very little is heard
nowadays, that in this part of the world six million Jews are condemned to be
crowded in places where they are not wanted, human beings for whom the world
is divided into countries in which they cannot live and countries which they
are not allowed to enter.
    Just one word about Russia: There are around three million Jews in
Russia. We have only very little contact with them. Russia is at present a
closed country. The situation there has, I think, materially improved, namely
due to the fact that many people who could not be incorporated into Russia's
present society are about to disappear...(Chaim Weizmann, "Reden + Aufsätze
1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page 272)
    But in the meaning in which the term Jewry is understood by us, it is
disappearing in Russia. Zionism is not allowed in Russia, it is regarded as a
counter-revolutionary movement, a stooge of British imperialism. From time to
time a Zionist escapes from Russia; younger people, and the Commission will
perhaps have occasion to see several groups of these young Russian men and
women who managed to escape from Russia under great sacrifices and at the
risk of their lives. But a regular emigration of Jews from Russia to
Palestine does not exist.
    With great effort we succeeded in getting one thousand or twelve hundred
Zionist families out of Russia, who had been arrested there and were
incarcerated in Siberia prisons. We continue to attempt under enormous
difficulties to get them out and into Palestine, but in reality a Russian
Jewry as part of the World Jewry does not exist...(Chaim Weizmann, "Reden +
Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page 273)
    The six million whom I mentioned before, are condemned to live from hand
to mouth; they do not know today what will happen tomorrow, I am not talking
about organized anti-Semitism and will assume for a moment that most
countries are behaving quite amicably, but there are a number of objective
reasons, purely objective reasons, leading to a situation in those parts of
the world where the Jewish community is crushed and the Jews are made the
flotsam of the world, where they are economically ground to dust.
    When saying this to you, I do not wish to involve your emotions, but
these things are not widely known. Although it is common knowledge that the
situation of the Jews is not a very happy one. I think that the real
circumstances are not understood; this is why I have taken the liberty to
dwell a little more comprehensively on this subject. This involves, after
all, the fate of six million human beings." (Chaim Weizmann, "Reden +
Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page 274)

    On August 25, 1939; before the commencement of the war, the same man
handed over to the British government the military declaration of war of the
World Jewish Congress on Germany. In his own words this sounded somewhat more
subtle as follows: "I took it upon myself to convey to the British government
in writing and verbally the resolution of mutual assistance passed by the
Geneva conference..." (Chaim Weizmann, "Memoiren" Das Werden des Staates
Israel" Zürich 1953)

    When war began in 1939, he had a conversation with Winston Churchill: "He
received me not only cordially, but he was also full of confidence with
respect to the war. His first words, after he welcomed me, were about as
follows: ‘Well, Dr. Weizmann, we have as good as beaten them already.'
    I was not quite of the same opinion at the time, but I did not say so. I
just changed the subject, spoke about our own affairs and thanked him for his
constant support for the Zionist course. ‘You were standing at the cradle of
this enterprise,' I said to him, ‘and hopefully you will live to see that we
have succeeded.' Adding that after the war we would build up a state of three
to four million Jews in Palestine, whereupon he implied: ‘Yes, go ahead, I am
full in agreement with this idea.' (Chaim Weizmann, "Memoiren" Das Werden des
Staates Israel" Zürich 1953, p 611)

    About November, 1945, he said: "The British government refused to believe
that six million Jews had been killed in Europe." (Chaim Weizmann, "Memoiren"
Das Werden des Staates Israel" Zürich 1953, p 642) And this was in November
1945!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax -8- by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:54:15 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    This was the first time in his voluminous "memoirs" that he expressed
himself on the subject of "extermination of European Jewry by
Hitler-Germany." Just as in the memoir-volumes of Nahum Goldmann, the
president of the World Jewish Congress and of the American section of the
Jewish Agency of long years' standing there is also nothing at all on the
so-called "Holocaust" as in Chaim Weizmann's book, nothing about what the
Jewish world organizations had learned during the war and how they had
reacted on that information. Still in November 1945, the British government
did not know anything about this either.

    Only later on it was considered necessary in terms of power politics to
join the chorus of the other agitators or at least not to contradict them.
This total silence on the part of the two decisive representatives of
International Jewry in their memoirs concerning the outrageous accusations
raised against the German people is highly important evidence in terms of
world history!

    The American Hebrew
    October 31, 1919

    The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!

    By MARTIN H. GLYNN
    (Former Governor of the State of N.Y.)

    From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help, and
eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread. These children, these
men and women are our fellow- members of the human family, with the same
claim on life as we, the same susceptibility to the winter's cold, the same
propensity to death before the pangs of hunger. Within them reside the
illimitable possibilities for the advancement of the human race as naturally
would reside in six million human beings. We may not be their keepers but we
ought to be their helpers.
    In the face of death, in the throes of starvation there is no place for
mental distinctions of creed, no place for physical differentiations of race.
In this catastrophe, when six million beings are being whirled toward the
grave by a cruel and relentless fate, only the most idealistic promptings of
human nature should sway the heart and move the hand.
    Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries of life;
eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them
through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws of God or
man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish
blood.
     In this threatened holocaust of human life....

The Most Debated Question of Our Time --

    WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
    By Dr. E. R. Fields

    "Since the Second World War, Jews have been treated with silk gloves.
Without Auschwitz, there would be no Israel." (by Nathan Goldmann, the
Founder of Israel as quoted from Paris Match, December 29, 1979)

    The "Holocaust" has given Israel a tremendous psychological advantage
over the Gentile world, particularly America and Germany. By exploiting the
guilt complex instilled in non-Jews, they have obtained:

    Over $65 billion in aid from Germany.

    Over $55 billion in aid from America. Israel, a prosperous country,
receives $3.2 billion, (or $8 million a day) in foreign aid - more than any
other country.

    The 45,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia have the highest annual quota
after Mexico. They enter as "refugees" without having to prove persecution!
As "refugees" they are automatically entitled to full welfare benefits not
subject to welfare reform cuts.

    Nonstop holocaust brainwashing in schools, TV, movies and books has
placed Israel and organized Jewry above criticism!

    Official Holocaust Figures Reduced

    Immediately after World War II, Allied authorities declared that "Jews
had been gassed" in all German concentration camps. It later discovered that
the many bodies photographed in the camps died during the waning days of the
war; from typhus, cold and starvation.

    Simon Wiesenthal, of the "Holocaust Center" in Los Angeles, stated in
Books and Bookmen, April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any camp on
German soil." The Jew L.P. Beria headed the Soviet NKVD secret police from
1938 to 1953. In 1945, he announced that they had discovered a "holocaust" of
six million Jews. This conveniently occurred only in camps in Poland! Beria
would not allow any outside investigators to examine these sites.

    The Jewish-owned New York Times reported in 1945 that Soviet Russia
supplied the figure of four million Jews having been put to death, "in the
gas chambers of Auschwitz."

    However, in July of 1990, the Polish government reduced this figure to
1.1 million and it was accepted by Jewish groups. Despite this evidence, the
"official figure" of six million dead was not lowered to three million! (It
should also be noted that Elizabeth Dole, president of the American Red
Cross, and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, revealed that the official death
records from Auschwitz had been uncovered in the Soviet Archives. It listed
70,000 deaths from all causes.)

    No Holocaust Order Ever Given

    The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There was no
attempt made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were seized in
the U.S. Zone of occupation alone. British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in
his biography of Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then, anything
like a written order signed by Hitler for the extermination of the Jews in
Europe."

    Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian Ocean,
then owned by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have been
located providing a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing a
Jewish homeland on the island of Madagascar. Plans were made for the
reimbursement of the 25,000 French citizens who lived there. Even the
government of France studied the plan. Theodore Herzl, the founder of
Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for a Jewish state. He also
considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to the Gaza Strip,
and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted Palestine.

    The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document on the
solution to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in regard to the
Jews is the emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old Reich."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax -9- by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:00:58 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German leadership
supported this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the question
of Madagascar. Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a witness
assures us. After the armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France), the idea
was propounded by the Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as well as by
Hitler himself."

    For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the Central
Office for Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war began, this
was no longer possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as enemy
aliens and deported them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler said: "The
Jews must leave Europe. The best thing is that they go to Russia."

    Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000 Americans of
Japanese descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration camps. In
March 1942 Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The Japanese
men, women and children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and armed
guard towers in the blazing hot desert.

    The Nuremberg War Crimes Trial heard testimony from Hans Lammers as to
what he considered the "Final Solution of The Jewish Problem." Lammers was
Chief of the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and Hitler.
Lammers said he asked Himmler what was the "final solution." Himmler replied:
"The Jews must be evacuated from Germany!" He said that Hitler told him the
same thing. In other words, "The Final Solution" was -- emigration!

    When asked, "when did you first learn that five million Jews had been
exterminated," Lammers replied that it was "here" at the Nuremberg trials!
Herman Goring also told the court that the first time he had heard anything
about a holocaust was, "right here at Nuremberg!"

    Auschwitz was a massive military-industrial complex of 39 camps of which
19 mainly employed Jews. The factories at the "Monowitz No. 16 Camp" alone
employed 126,000 workers. Holocaust expert, Leon Poliakov of Paris, in
Breviary of Hate, page 134, in 1979 wrote that the Jewish Warsaw Ghetto was
one of the Germans' "most important supply centers. The second in economic
importance was the Lodz ghetto because it manufactured all kinds of goods,
and, in particular, its textile industries constituted support of great value
to the German economy."

    Heinrich Himmler feared a typhus epidemic in the camps. Eastern European
Jews were very unhygienic and were often blamed for the spread of typhus. On
December 28, 1942, Himmler ordered that, "the death rate in the camps must be
reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, The Final Solution.)

    On January 20, 1943, chief inspector of the camps, Richard Glucks,
answered Himmler, "Every means will be used to lower the death rates."
(Source, Nuremberg Trial Document No. 1523.) The death rate had indeed been
reduced from 8.5% in July 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943.

    On April 17, 1943, Hitler asked Admiral Horthy, regent of Hungary for,
"100, 000 Jews to work on a new pursuit plane program." (Source, Reitlinger's
book, Die Endlosung, 1956, page 478.)

    In May 1944 Hitler personally ordered that 200,000 more Jews be put to
work in construction and "other important military works."

    The Jews were vital to the German war industry. It would have been
counter productive to exterminate them. In fact, the SS arrested Karl Koch,
commandant of Buchenwald, for mistreating and unjustly executing some
prisoners. After being found guilty by a military court, Koch was sentenced
to death and shot. If there was actually a "holocaust" he would have been
honored instead of executed.

    Shindler's List features Commandant Amon Goeth, who in reality did abuse
prisoners. However, the film fails to inform viewers that he had been
arrested by the SS and was in prison awaiting trial at war's end.

    Most of the gruesome pictures of bodies we see in "made for TV" holocaust
dramas are those who died of starvation and disease during the final chaotic
months of the war. An example is Dachau. Some 54 died in January 1944 and 101
in February 1944.

    When food and medical supplies could not be delivered due to Allied
bombings, 2,888 died in January and 3,977 in February 1945.

    The Impossibility of Mass Gassings Auschwitz had no mass graves. The
cremation of four million bodies would have left 15,000 tons of ash which was
never found. Many tons of coal would have been necessary for such mass
cremations. Initially, the Soviets told conflicting stories about how the six
million perished in the camps under their control. At first they claimed that
the inmates had been "steamed" to death. On December 5, 1945, a Communist
judge issued the following "Accusation No. 6" against defendant Hans Frank at
Nuremberg: "A large boiler for the production of superheated steam was
injected into the interior of the rooms. The doors are closed hermetically
and the long asphyxiation of the victims by the steam begins. At the start,
screams came from inside, they die down slowly; after 15 minutes, the
executions are completed."

    This story was not believable. It was then changed to allege that trucks
were backed up to the "death chambers" and carbon monoxide gas was pumped
into the rooms. This claim too was "forgotten" and the Soviets then charged
that the
Germans changed the "steam chambers" into "gas chambers."

    The Soviets came up with a novel idea of how the Jews were exterminated
at the Belzec camp. "The Jews were ordered to undress as though to take a
bath. They were led in fact into a building that could hold hundreds of
people. The water was filled up to their necks. Then a powerful electric
current was sent into the metal flooring and within a few seconds all the
Jews, thousands at a time, were dead."

    Soviet prosecutor L.N. Smirnov actually read this accusation into the
record at the December 19, 1945, session of the Nuremberg trial. This story
finally evolved to execution by "Zyklon B" gas. This was a widely used
pesticide to kill lice  which was the biggest health threat in the camps. Had
the Germans actually wanted to perform mass exterminations, they had products
one-thousand times more deadly such as Sarin and Tabun nerve gas!

    Austrian Engineer Walter Luftl issued a report in March 1992, in which he
found that, "Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for the purposes of systematic mass
murder."

    Fred Leuchter, America's foremost expert on executions, took a team of
investigators to Auschwitz in 1988 and reported: "I traveled to Poland to
investigate the alleged execution gas chamber facilities at the three
concentration camps of Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek. My forensic analysis
and subsequent report proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that there were no
gas execution facilities operated by the Nazis at these sites."

    Leuchter also examined the capacity of the so-called "gas chamber
building" at Birkenau. The Nuremberg Tribunal's document No. L-022 stated:
"1,765,000 Jews were gassed at Birkenau between April 1942 and April 1944."

    However, Leuchter found that even if used at full capacity "only 105,688"
persons could have been "gassed." His team scraped forensic samples from
brick, mortar and concrete to find traces of cyanide compounds which would be
present for centuries. They were submitted to the Alpha Analytical
Laboratories of Ashland, Massachusetts.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax -10- by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:03:40 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    In March 1988, the Alpha report found that no cyanide elements,
consistent=
 with what could be expected to be found in a gas chamber, were present.=20

    A retired German judge, Dr. Wilhelm Staglich said: "The extermination=
 thesis stands or falls with the allegation that Auschwitz was a 'death=
 factory.'"=20

    Fred Leuchter's finding: "We have provided the definitive proof that
there=
 were no execution gas chambers utilized for genocidal purposes by the=
 Germans at these wartime camps. The simple fact is that the holocaust story=
 is not true."=20

    How Many Jews Actually Died?=20

    The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the American=
 Jewish Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was=
 15,688,259. The New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the world=
 Jewish population ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding some=
 600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine. How could the Jewish population=
 have increased so rapidly after losing six million during World War II?=20

    Walter Sanning, the author of Dissolution of European Jewry, says that no=
 less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated out of Europe leaving 2,847,000 Jews=
 residing there at the height of the German occupation in June 1941. After=
 the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the Red Cross, applied for holocaust=
 reparations. This figure included many of the emigrants. Thus, the actual=
 number of those who died at the camps from all causes ranges between=
 150,000 and 300,000.=20

    "Holocaust" Silences Opposition=20

    Hardly a week goes by without a new holocaust story in the media. Bernard=
 Postal wrote in Jewish Week, July 14, 1979: "Not until the Holocaust, did=
 anti-Semitism become taboo. There was a time when anti-Semitic speeches=
 were an open factor in national (political) campaigns. The Holocaust puts a=
 taboo on overt anti-Semitism among upper-level statesmen and publicists."=
=20

    Zionist spokesmen have often boasted that, "The shattering effect of the=
 holocaust on the Christian conscience results in a feeling of collective=
 indebtedness to the Jews."=20

    The Red Cross issued a massive, three volume, 1,600 page report on the=
 camps after the war, part of which reads: "In the final moths of the war,=
 the camps received no food supplies at all and starvation claimed an=
 increasing number of victims." ...Gen. Kaltenbrunner...Allowed the Red=
 Cross to distribute relief packages and one (Red Cross) delegate was=
 authorized to stay in each camp (as an observer). Does this sound like a=
 holocaust?=20

    What About Real Holocausts?=20

    Why doesn't the film industry or news media produce documentaries about
the=
 numerous true holocausts during the century such as:=20

    The Soviet Holocaust of Christian Russian Kulak farmers. (1924 - 1930) -
15=
 million exterminated!=20

    The Holocaust of the Ukranian farmers, (1930- 1933) - 7 million starved
to=
 death.=20

    The Holocaust of Russian political prisoners, (1919 - 1949) - 12 million=
 perished.=20

    The Pol Pot Communist Holocaust in Cambodia (1975) - 2.5 million=
 slaughtered.=20

    Armenian Holocaust by the Turks, (1915) - 1.5 million people killed.=20

    Bear in mind that the Jews are the only racial group with an organization=
 like the World Jewish congress which wields fearsome power!=20

    GOOD NEWS FROM AUSCHWITZ!=20
                    =20
    The following is from Australia's A.N.M., P.O. Box 40, Summer Hill,
N.S.W.=
 2130: Dear Respected Reader: Since 1945 there have been many conflicting=
 claims concerning the numbers of Jewish people (and others) who died at=
 Auschwitz-Birkeneu (Oswiecim, concentration camp). However, it is only=
 recent research and access to hitherto unavailable documents, that these=
 numbers have drastically lowered, possibly indicating that more of our=
 people survive. Perhaps the 6 mills often publicized (though our best=
 figure is 4.3 million) may also need to be revised lower, we hope so. Dr.=
 Nathan Nussbaum, Honorary Director, Centre for Jewish Holocaust Studies.=20
=20
    According to official documents in the French Republic (institute for the=
 Examination of War-criminals) the number that died in Auschwitz was:=
 8,000,000.
=20
    According to the French daily newspaper "Le Monde" (20 April, 1978):=
 5,000,000.
=20
    According to the memorial plaque on the gas-chamber monument at=
 Auschwitz-Birkenau (later removed in 1990 by the Polish Government):=
 4,000,000.
=20
    According to the "confession" of Rudolf H=F6ess, the last commandant of=
 Auschwitz. G.V. interrogation record and written statement before his=
 "suicide": 3,000,000.=20
=20
    According to a statement by Yeduha Bauer, Director of the Institute for=
 Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem: 1,600,000.=20
=20
    According to "La Monde" (1 September 1989): 1,433,000.
=20
    According to Prof. Raul Hilberg (Professor for Holocaust Research, and=
 author of the book, "The Annihilation of European Jewry," 2nd. ed. 1988:=
 1,250,000.=20
=20
    According to Polish historians, G.V. DPA - Report of July 1990 and=
 corresponding public announcements: 1,100,000.=20
=20
    According to Gerald Reitlinger, author of "Die Endlbsun": 850,000.=20
                                                                 =20
    In the autumn of 1989 the Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev opened
Soviet=
 archives, and the public saw for the first time, the complete register of=
 deaths at Auschwitz - which speaks as a key document of 74,000 dead.     =
=20

    This is just a few of the many reasons that people, around the world, are=
 beginning to deny the "Holocaust." Which brings on the question of just=
 what is a "Holocaust Denial?" For in recent years, more and more attention=
 has been devoted to the supposed danger of "Holocaust denial." Politicians,=
 newspapers and television warn about the growing influence of those who=
 reject the Holocaust story that some six million European Jews were=
 systematically exterminated during the Second World War, most of them in=
 gas chambers. In several countries, including Israel, France, Germany and=
 Austria, "Holocaust denial" is against the law, and "deniers" have been=
 punished with stiff fines and prison sentences.=20

    Some frantic Jewish community leaders are calling fro similar government=
 measures in the United States against defiant "revisionists." In Canada,=
 David Matas, Senior Counsel for the "League for Human Rights" of the=
 Zionist B'nai B'rith organization, says: "The Holocaust was the murder of=
 six million Jews, including two million children. Holocaust denial is a=
 second murder of those same six million. First their lives were=
 extinguished; then their deaths. A person who denies the Holocaust becomes=
 part of the crime of the Holocaust itself." (Globe and Mail (Toronto),=
 January 22, 1992)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Zyklon B Gas
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:39:39 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1431
> In a message dated 9/20/99 8:19:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Still running away I see!
>
>  Philip Mathews >>
>
>
>
> *******Still stroking I see, on all of your posts....What  to run
from your
> lies? You don't even have a clue.

Still running I see!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -6- by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:42:03 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1432
> In a message dated 9/20/99 9:48:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << (The Journal of Historical Review) Why, when a considerably
>  > greater injustice was done to the Japanese of America during that
>  time, have
>  > not been showered with sympathy and money?
>
>  Only a Jew hating fool would compare the admittedly unjust treatment
of
>  Japanese Americans during the war to the genocide of 6 million Jews.
>
>
>   >>
> Only because the Japanese didn't have control of the media,

Nonsense, only because we didn't murder them.

 The so called
> death camps, and the uncanny ability to lie.

The lies are yours, Jew hater, as I have fun pointing out almost daily!
Figured out the difference between Hoess and Hess yet?

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Jewish Talmudism
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:46:22 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@eGroups.com
To: 13texan@eGroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com had sent this in part and I thank him for an article which
encompasses so much truth. JM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jews sucking the Life blood out of many nations..
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:54:08 EDT

For over 1700 years, the Jews have bewailed their sad fate in that they have
been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did
the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason
for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires do not live
on vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must subsist off
Christians and other peoples not of their race...

In verses 43-44 we read: The stranger that is within thee shall get up
above thee very high and thou shalt come down very low ... he shall be the
head, and thou shalt be the tail.

Ask yourself what has happened to Anglo-Saxon leadership in America in
the last fifty years? Who controls our economy? It is not our own people.
America's economy is at the mercy of International Jewish Banking families,
eight of them in this order:

1.   ROTHSCHILD BANK of London and Berlin

2.   LAZARD BROTHER BANK of Paris

3.   ISRAEL MOSES SEIF BANK of Italy

4.   WARBURG BROTHERS BANK of Amsterdam and Hamburg

5.   LEHMAN BROTHERS BANK of New York City

6.   KUEHN-LOEB BANK of New York City

7.   CHASE MANHATTAN BANK of New York City (As you know, Chase  Manhattan is
controlled by the international Rockefeller interests.)

8.   GOLDMAN-SACHS BANK of New York City

     Each of these banks is Jewish controlled and today approximately 300
Jewish businessmen who are closely associated, often by intermarriage,
control the money system of the world. They control an interlocking,
international banking cartel of unimaginable wealth and power which has
stolen billions of dollars from the American taxpayer since the Federal
Reserve Act became law in 1913. All by the application of Talmudic banking
practices.

     According to Theodore Hertzl, father of modern Zionism, the Talmudic
question arises whenever Jews appear because they bring it with them. It is
not their large numbers which causes the problem, but their Talmudic
business principles and practices of which they love to boast.
     Jewish power has become so strong in America that we see a turning away
from the Christian principles of our founding fathers to the heathen
philosophies of Babylonia.  This is being accomplished by Jewish propaganda.
The Jews have always been known as "propagandists." They initiated the idea
of brainwashing, or thought control as it is more accurately titled. This
was
the technique used against our fighting men in Korea and Vietnam, it is
being used to seduce millions of youth in our government schools, and it is
used in the Judeo-Christian churches of this nation. These are not Christian
ideas, or American ideas, but the ideas of a heathen, alien philosophy which
is contrary to everything we say we believe in as Christians.

     The Talmudists insist over and over again that they "gave us our
Scripture," "gave us our God," "gave us our religion," and gave us our
Savior!" None of the claims are valid since none of these things have a
Jewish origin.

     Few Jewish leaders claim any spiritual mission for Jewdom. Theirs is a
mission to control a one-world government under the wise men of Jewdom. As
far back as 1881, a Jewish spokesman, Goldwin Smith, professor of Modern
History at Oxford University, boastingly said:  We Jews regard our race as
superior to humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other
races, but our triumph over them.

     In 1858, the head rabbi of Europe stated: Wars are the Jews harvests,
for by them we kill off the Christians and harvest their gold. We have
already killed a hundred million of them, and the end is not yet!

     This was before the inter-family American Civil War and the fratricidal
WWI and WWII. Samuel Roth, a noted Jewish author, stated to a fellow Jew:
We came to the world pretending to escape persecution, and we are the most
deadly persecutors in all the wretched annals of man.

     1.   Israel was to glorify Jesus the Christ, Messiah, who was
prophesied by the Hebrew prophets. Do the Jews demonstrate this
glorification?

     2.   Israel was commissioned by Jesus the Christ to carry the message
of God's salvation to all men, everywhere (Matthew 28:18-20). For centuries,
who has carried out this commission? The Anglo-Saxon,. Celtic and
Scandinavian peoples. At any time since the birth of Christ, have the Jews
witnessed to anyone of God's salvation through Jesus?

     3.   Israel was to lose her identity as a people after God divorced
them. They were to be scattered among the nations and forget who they were.
(Hosea 1:9-10) Have the Jews ever lost their "identity?" Even though most
Jews today are of Turko-Mongol racial extraction and have no racial heritage
to the tribes of Israel, they never stop shouting from the housetops that
they are the "Chosen Ones."

     4.   Israel was designated by God to be a Holy People because they were
His servants. They were to spread the word of God, His kingdom and His
salvation. The Jews certainly boast of being a "holy people," and a
"superior people," they never admit to being servants.

     5.   Israel was to bring forth Kingdom fruits. The Anglo-Saxon peoples
have, in varying degrees, been exhibiting these fruits. Can we point to a
time in the centuries  since the Christ where the Jews have done so?

     6.   Israel was to become known as "Sons of the Living God" following
their captivities and dispersion among the nations. Born-from-above
Anglo-Saxons have this distinction. The Jews have never been known by this
description.

     7.   Israel was to become a "company of nations," and a "great nation."
The United Kingdom and America certainly fulfill this prophecy. While the
Israelis can today claim to be a powerful military force in the Middle East,
it is only because America has pumped in billions of dollars and resources
to keep it afloat. Even their leaders admit that if we withdrew our support,
they would collapse. Reaching back into history from the time of Christ,
where have the Jews ever been a "great nation," or a "company of nations?"
History is silent.

     8.   Who are known as Isaac's Sons, or Sax-sons? Certainly not the
Jews.

     9.   Israelites were to be great colonizers, taming the vast
wildernesses and establishing colonies which became nations wherever they
went. The Jews have been a scourge to all nations wherever they went and, in
many cases, those nations expelled them. They were not hated for "His
namesake," but for their Talmudic practices.

     Does your pastor teach that the Jews comprise all of Israel? The truth
is, they are not even a part of it!

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't know which one to buy? Productopia does.
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/554

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] "The Racist Mind"
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:37:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph Ezekial
of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist Mind:"

"The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role in all this.  On the one hand,
Holocaust denial matters to the movement, and its presses claim
insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic murders took
place.  The white racist movement knows that for most people the
immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word 'Holocaust,' an
association that hinders broad organizing.  At the same time, I sense
that the movement's                 fascination with the Holocaust is
exactly that: fascination.  The most
important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it was a
force so
strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.  I think
contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the Holocaust,
need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen -- so
that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about it, can
keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that they are
part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.

"If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore them.

"On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for a
moment,
that people like me are telling the truth: that Hitler and his group
DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way guilty of a
crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one answered that
it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews, they
would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway, and so
on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been able to
imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I think that
they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly glad;
it reassures them."

Philip Mathews



------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Backup - The #1 Online Backup Service.  Protect your files before
you lose them. Easy, Reliable, Secure online backups. INSTALL
today.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/938

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] "The Racist Mind"
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:29:48 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The pathology of many Holocaust supporters was summed up by Michael Snead
of the Snead State School of Public Health in his book "The Racist Mind:"

"The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role in all this.  On the one hand,
Holocaust support matters to the movement, and its presses claim
insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic murders took
place.  The Zionist movement knows that for most people the
immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word 'Holocaust,' an
association that promotes broad organizing.  At the same time, I sense
that the movement's  fascination with the Holocaust is exactly that:
fascination.
The most important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it was a
force so strong and accusations of the Nazis being ruthless and that it did
not hesitate to murder.  I think contemporary Zionist racists NEED to talk
endlessly
about the Holocaust, need to keep saying over and over again that it did
happen
-- so that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about it, can
keep reassuring  themselves that it DID happen, that they are part of a
movement so merciless that they are dangerous.

"If they really believed Nazism had  killed, it would bore them.

"On occasion I have asked a young Zionist militant to imagine, just for a
moment, that people like me are telling the truth: that Hitler and his group
did NOT kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way guilty of a
crime.  Would that make any difference to them? They answered that
it would make no difference at all.  The Bavarians (1919) were Goyims, they
would say, and had killed  thousands of Jews themselves,
and bad things happen in wartime anyway, and so on.  The point is
that not one of the young men who has been able to imagine for a moment
that I am right was at all bothered.  I think that they are fairly sure that
Hitler did NOT murder, and they are fairly glad; it reassures them."

Michael Snead
    14/abb
       ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From wine to Windows.  Everybody learns something at Learn2.com. Where
you'll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and
useful tips for everyday life.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/963

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:00:18 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi all!

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph Ezekial
> of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist Mind:"

js
When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
immediately associate the term with the structural and
functional deviations from the normal that constitute
disease/s ......

If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
....to any degree....is diseased!....

If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!

Let's see....
>
> "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role

js
Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
Of course nothing of a lie is normal....

> in all this.  On the one hand,
> Holocaust denial matters to the movement,

js
This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
might not exist....(whatever the movement is)

> and its presses claim
> insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic murders took
> place.

js
which is an opposing and antagonistic view point....The jew
doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....

> The white racist movement

js
If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!

> knows that for most people the
> immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word 'Holocaust,' an
> association that hinders broad organizing.

js
Nothing but word association...use them often enough
together and in a couple of generations they will become
synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!

Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....

> At the same time, I sense

js
Is this a specialized animal function or mechanism he
is using...Has to be....there are no facts stated...

> that the movement's                 fascination with the Holocaust is
> exactly that: fascination.  The most

js
FASCINATION?....anybody here know what the word
fascination means....

> important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it was a
> force so
> strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.

js
Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...

> I think

So far we have seen the following fact filled comments...
1) "I sense"....
2) "I think"....

> contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the Holocaust,

js
Here we go again....only whites are racists ....

And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
their own addmission!....

> need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen -- so
> that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about it, can
> keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that they are
> part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
>
> "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore them.
>
> "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for a
> moment,
> that people like me are telling the truth:

js
I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
militant knew John 8:44?

that Hitler and his group
> DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way guilty of a
> crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one answered that
> it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews, they
> would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
> themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway, and so
> on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been able to
> imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I think that
> they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly glad;
> it reassures them."

js
And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!

UHOO STUPID!...do you think Ezekial was biased in any
way....show me the facts in this one...good buddy!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Java or juggling?.  Everybody learns something at Learn2.com.  Where
you'll find thousands of free 2torials, affordable online courses, and
useful tips for everyday life.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/964

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:53:58 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1441
> Hi all!
>
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph
Ezekial
> > of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist
Mind:"
>
> js
> When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
> with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
> immediately associate the term with the structural and
> functional deviations from the normal that constitute
> disease/s ......

Having fun with your computer dictionary!

>
> If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
> of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
> stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
> ....to any degree....is diseased!....

No. He clearly stated this as a pathology of many deniers, particularly
those with a Neo-Nazi fixation.

>
> If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
> mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
> accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
> normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
> an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!

He was using it in the sense of abnormal. Denying proven history while
secretly knowing it happened and reveling in that fact is abnormal by
any definition. His professional judgement in this regard is certainly
more meaningful than the counterfeit "facts" presented by Jew hating
deniers on this list.

>
> Let's see....
> >
> > "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role
>
> js
> Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
> Of course nothing of a lie is normal....

Context means everything. Abnormal in the context used is a strong word.

>
>
>
> > in all this.  On the one hand,
> > Holocaust denial matters to the movement,
>
> js
> This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
> might not exist....(whatever the movement is)

No, without the reality of the Holocaust. See, you're abnormal.

>
>
> > and its presses claim
> > insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic murders
took
> > place.
>
> js
> which is an opposing and antagonistic view point.

Historical fact does not rest on viewpoints, which is why you never
offer any substantial rebuttal to the known facts of that period.

...The jew
> doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
> he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....

Ah, this must be some of the fact laden stuff you were talking about.
Sounds like mindless Jew hating to me!

>
>
> > The white racist movement
>
> js
> If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
> it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!

No it doesn't. It's how they describe themselves. But only a racist
would seek to read such a meaning in the sentence.

>
>
> > knows that for most people the
> > immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word 'Holocaust,'
an
> > association that hinders broad organizing.
>
> js
> Nothing but word association...use them often enough
> together and in a couple of generations they will become
> synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!

Apt word association, which correctly describes National Socialism in
action, and which Neo-Nazis seek to distort because it is properly
anathema to decent peole.

>
> Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....

Is that how it happened with you?


>
> > that the movement's                 fascination with the Holocaust
is
> > exactly that: fascination.  The most
>
> js
> FASCINATION?....anybody here know what the word
> fascination means....

Is this the e

>
> > important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it was a
> > force so
> > strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.
>
> js
> Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...
>

Perhaps you, but that is your pathology.


>
> > contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the
Holocaust,
>
> js
> Here we go again....only whites are racists ....

Having trouble with reading comprehension I see. Probably a result of
having to look up every other word.

>
> And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
> their own addmission!....
>

When did they admit this? No wonder you have trouble interpreting the
Bible.

>
> > need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen -- so
> > that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about it, can
> > keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that they
are
> > part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
> >
> > "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore them.
> >
> > "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for a
> > moment,
> > that people like me are telling the truth:
>
> js
> I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
> the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
> truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
> militant knew John 8:44?

You're lying or stupid. He's talking to people who profess disbelief,
therefore he's asking them to suspend disbelief for the purposes of
answering a question. By the way Jew hater, his ethnic background is
irrelevant.

>
>
>
>
> that Hitler and his group
> > DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way guilty of
a
> > crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one answered
that
> > it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews, they
> > would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
> > themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway,
and so
> > on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been able to
> > imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I think
that
> > they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly
glad;
> > it reassures them."
>
> js
> And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!

Thinking is not something concerning which you demonstrate much ability.

You must have attended school on some Iowa farm.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn2 Avoid Junk Mail. Learn2 Shop for Bargain Airfares. Learn2
Weatherize Your Home. Learn2 Speak Wine. Learn2 Get by in French.
Learn2 Negotiate a Raise.  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/965

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -7- by Willie Martin
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:48:28 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1433
> From: Willie Martin 
>
>     Some ignorant and naive person may speak the Jewish line that
they, the
> Jews, are God's Chosen People. But this too is a Jewish myth,
perpetrated by
> the atheistic Jews for political advantage. The Christian Scripture
declares
> that it is the True Israelite People who are the Chosen People of
Almighty
> God.

And Jews are the true Israelite People.

(snip Biblical discussion)

>     Which of the two was innocent and unworthy of death? The 3.5
million
> Jews, or the Lamb of God, Who was innocent and without a spot or
wrinkle? The
> Jew would like the deceived Christian to believe that the blood of
Christ is
> worthless and meaningless when compared to the blood of an atheistic
Jew. But
> the truth, is, if all the Jews and gypsies and God-hating Communists,
put
> together, were sacrificed upon some pagan alter, all their blood
together
> could not do what one drop of the innocent blood of Christ can do.

Nothing about the Holocaust here.

>
>     In other words, there is no comparison between the blood of a
billion
> Christ-hating Jews and the blood of Jesus Christ. In most cases the
> God-hating wretches reaped what they had sown upon and against White
> Christian Nations. The Bible does not teach White Christian men and
women to
> feel sorry for the guilty, but only to have pity for the innocent.
Anything
> else is a blatant miscarriage and perversion of the very meaning of
justice.
> Thus, it must be said that too many Christians have taken their eyes
off the
> blood sacrifice of Calvary, and they have allowed the atheistic,
Talmudic and
> Zionistic Jew to manipulate their feelings of compassion and pity
away form
> the Son of God, and to invest that pity in the enemies of God.

Nothing about the Holocaust here, just more raving from a Jew hater.

>
>     In 1936 a speech before the Royal Commission in Jerusalem, Chaim
> Weizmann, president of the World Zionist Organization and Jewish
Agency of
> long years' standing, 1948 first President of the State of Israel,
defined
> the "Six Million" as a symbolic figure for the Jewish fate.

No he didn't. Jew hating  conspiracy nuts like Martin wish to make
people believe this.

(Chaim Weizmann,
> "Reden + Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin
1937) "The
> world is taciturn, and it was only recently that we heard the Polish
Foreign
> Minister, Col. Beck, say in many interviews in Geneva and in his own
country
> and in Berlin that there were one million Jews too many in Poland...
>     I do not wish to dwell on this subject any longer. I am not going
to
> engage the Commission's time more than necessary in order to describe
what is
> going on in Germany. It is too well known that I would have to go
into more
> precise details. This is the situation of roughly 3,600,000 Jews.
Just over
> three million of them are living in Poland, 600,000 were living in
Germany in
> 1932, but this figure has decreased since.
>     If we go on and take the Jews of Roumania, Lithuania and Austria
into
> consideration, then we have practically the same picture, and it is
therefore
> no exaggeration at all when I say that today six million; I am not
talking
> about the Jews in Persia and Marocco and in such countries which can
only
> give very uncertain information and about which very little is heard
> nowadays, that in this part of the world six million Jews are
condemned to be
> crowded in places where they are not wanted, human beings for whom
the world
> is divided into countries in which they cannot live and countries
which they
> are not allowed to enter.

Yes, 6 million happened to be the population of those areas, minus the
Soviet Union. Mr. Martin's pathetic attempt to make something of this
is funny!

>     Just one word about Russia: There are around three million Jews
in
> Russia. We have only very little contact with them. Russia is at
present a
> closed country. The situation there has, I think, materially
improved, namely
> due to the fact that many people who could not be incorporated into
Russia's
> present society are about to disappear...(Chaim Weizmann, "Reden +
Aufsätze
> 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page 272)
>     But in the meaning in which the term Jewry is understood by us,
it is
> disappearing in Russia. Zionism is not allowed in Russia, it is
regarded as a
> counter-revolutionary movement, a stooge of British imperialism. From
time to
> time a Zionist escapes from Russia; younger people, and the
Commission will
> perhaps have occasion to see several groups of these young Russian
men and
> women who managed to escape from Russia under great sacrifices and at
the
> risk of their lives. But a regular emigration of Jews from Russia to
> Palestine does not exist.

still nothing about the Holocaust. Getting the idea Martin doesn't
really have much to say about the subject?

>     With great effort we succeeded in getting one thousand or twelve
hundred
> Zionist families out of Russia, who had been arrested there and were
> incarcerated in Siberia prisons. We continue to attempt under
enormous
> difficulties to get them out and into Palestine, but in reality a
Russian
> Jewry as part of the World Jewry does not exist...(Chaim Weizmann,
"Reden +
> Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page
273)

Nothing here.

>     The six million whom I mentioned before, are condemned to live
from hand
> to mouth; they do not know today what will happen tomorrow, I am not
talking
> about organized anti-Semitism and will assume for a moment that most
> countries are behaving quite amicably, but there are a number of
objective
> reasons, purely objective reasons, leading to a situation in those
parts of
> the world where the Jewish community is crushed and the Jews are made
the
> flotsam of the world, where they are economically ground to dust.
>     When saying this to you, I do not wish to involve your emotions,
but
> these things are not widely known. Although it is common knowledge
that the
> situation of the Jews is not a very happy one. I think that the real
> circumstances are not understood; this is why I have taken the
liberty to
> dwell a little more comprehensively on this subject. This involves,
after
> all, the fate of six million human beings." (Chaim Weizmann, "Reden +
> Aufsätze 1901 - 1936," jüd. Buchverlag Erwin Löwe, Berlin 1937, page
274)

Yup, six million was the European Jewish population, minus the Soviet
Union. Of course Mr. Martin has failed to demonstrate anything symbolic
about the number, in fact he has shown that the number was a population
statistic.

>
>     On August 25, 1939; before the commencement of the war,

Martin means before Germany started the war, but since he wants to
whitewash Nazi crimes, he writes as if the war just sprung up like a
case of strep throat!

 the same man
> handed over to the British government the military declaration of war
of the
> World Jewish Congress on Germany

Nonsense! Martin has no shame, but prefers to lie blatantly to serve
his unChristian purposes. The Jews had no nation, let alone a military,
without which one cannot declare military war. Martin is not so stupid
as to not know this, but in a way similar to the Goebbels propoganda
machine, he wishes to provide justification for Nazi actions.

In his own words this sounded somewhat more
> subtle as follows: "I took it upon myself to convey to the British
government
> in writing and verbally the resolution of mutual assistance passed by
the
> Geneva conference..." (Chaim Weizmann, "Memoiren" Das Werden des
Staates
> Israel" Zürich 1953)

"Sounded somewhat more subtle" in that it bears no relationship to
Martin's mindless assertion!

>
>     When war began in 1939,

Again, when the Nazis started WWII.

 he had a conversation with Winston Churchill: "He
> received me not only cordially, but he was also full of confidence
with
> respect to the war. His first words, after he welcomed me, were about
as
> follows: ‘Well, Dr. Weizmann, we have as good as beaten them already.'

Yeah, it was all those troops, and military hardware of the Jews that
made the difference!  What a joke.

>     I was not quite of the same opinion at the time, but I did not
say so. I
> just changed the subject, spoke about our own affairs and thanked him
for his
> constant support for the Zionist course. ‘You were standing at the
cradle of
> this enterprise,' I said to him, ‘and hopefully you will live to see
that we
> have succeeded.' Adding that after the war we would build up a state
of three
> to four million Jews in Palestine, whereupon he implied: ‘Yes, go
ahead, I am
> full in agreement with this idea.' (Chaim Weizmann, "Memoiren" Das
Werden des
> Staates Israel" Zürich 1953, p 611)

Nothing about the Holocaust here.

>
>     About November, 1945, he said: "The British government refused to
believe
> that six million Jews had been killed in Europe." (Chaim Weizmann,
"Memoiren"
> Das Werden des Staates Israel" Zürich 1953, p 642) And this was in
November
> 1945!

They were hardly the only ones. It was difficult for any sane person to
believe in the first months after the war that the Nazis were this
despicable. Then the evidence surfaced.

The reader can easily note little if any discussion of the Holocaust in
this post. Martin likes to provide lots of filler to disguise his lack
of knowledge of the Holocaust. After all, he didn't know the difference
between Rudolf Hess and Rudolf Hoess!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -8- by Willie Martin
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:15:08 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1434
> From: Willie Martin 
>
>     This was the first time in his voluminous "memoirs" that he
expressed
> himself on the subject of "extermination of European Jewry by
> Hitler-Germany." Just as in the memoir-volumes of Nahum Goldmann, the
> president of the World Jewish Congress and of the American section of
the
> Jewish Agency of long years' standing there is also nothing at all on
the
> so-called "Holocaust" as in Chaim Weizmann's book, nothing about what
the
> Jewish world organizations had learned during the war and how they
had
> reacted on that information. Still in November 1945, the British
government
> did not know anything about this either.

Mr. Martin is unable to state the relevance of these observations,
since there isn't any.

>
>     Only later on it was considered necessary in terms of power
politics to
> join the chorus of the other agitators or at least not to contradict
them.
> This total silence on the part of the two decisive representatives of
> International Jewry in their memoirs concerning the outrageous
accusations
> raised against the German people is highly important evidence in
terms of
> world history!

It is not evidence at all. The evidence for the Holocaust is evident,
and it is telling that to this point Mr. Martin is afraid to deal with
it, or even exhibit an understanding of what the evidence is.

>
>     The American Hebrew
>     October 31, 1919
>
>     The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop!
>
>     By MARTIN H. GLYNN
>     (Former Governor of the State of N.Y.)
>
>     From across the sea six million men and women call to us for
help, and
> eight hundred thousand little children cry for bread. These children,
these
> men and women are our fellow- members of the human family, with the
same
> claim on life as we, the same susceptibility to the winter's cold,
the same
> propensity to death before the pangs of hunger. Within them reside
the
> illimitable possibilities for the advancement of the human race as
naturally
> would reside in six million human beings. We may not be their keepers
but we
> ought to be their helpers.
>     In the face of death, in the throes of starvation there is no
place for
> mental distinctions of creed, no place for physical differentiations
of race.
> In this catastrophe, when six million beings are being whirled toward
the
> grave by a cruel and relentless fate, only the most idealistic
promptings of
> human nature should sway the heart and move the hand.
>     Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries
of life;
> eight hundred thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon
them
> through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the laws
of God or
> man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for
Jewish
> blood.
>      In this threatened holocaust of human life....
>
> The Most Debated Question of Our Time --

Martin posts this plea from an American politician about the famine
conditions affecting Jews after WWI. Of course there is no relevance
established, and for good reason.

>
>     WAS THERE REALLY A HOLOCAUST?
>     By Dr. E. R. Fields
>
>     "Since the Second World War, Jews have been treated with silk
gloves.
> Without Auschwitz, there would be no Israel." (by Nathan Goldmann,
the
> Founder of Israel as quoted from Paris Match, December 29, 1979)

Nothing about the Holocaust.

>
>     The "Holocaust" has given Israel a tremendous psychological
advantage
> over the Gentile world, particularly America and Germany. By
exploiting the
> guilt complex instilled in non-Jews, they have obtained:

>     Over $65 billion in aid from Germany.

It is not aid. It is reparations for what the Nazis did to Jews in
Europe during WWII.

>
>     Over $55 billion in aid from America. Israel, a prosperous
country,
> receives $3.2 billion, (or $8 million a day) in foreign aid - more
than any
> other country.

Yes, and they deserve it.

>
>     The 45,000 Jewish immigrants from Russia have the highest annual
quota
> after Mexico. They enter as "refugees" without having to prove
persecution!
> As "refugees" they are automatically entitled to full welfare
benefits not
> subject to welfare reform cuts.

No Holocaust discussion, as you can see, just more Jew bashing from a
hateful bigot.

>
>     Nonstop holocaust brainwashing in schools, TV, movies and books
has
> placed Israel and organized Jewry above criticism!

False. Fools like Mr. Martin are proof.

>
>     Official Holocaust Figures Reduced
>
>     Immediately after World War II, Allied authorities declared that
"Jews
> had been gassed" in all German concentration camps.

This is false.

It later discovered that
> the many bodies photographed in the camps died during the waning days
of the
> war; from typhus, cold and starvation.

Irrelevant. The few tens of thousands remaining, primarily in
non-extermination camps in German, has nothing to do with the millions
killed, cremated and buried in extermination camps and throughout the
areas of Eastern Europe patrolled by the Einsaztkommando death squads.

>
>     Simon Wiesenthal, of the "Holocaust Center" in Los Angeles,
stated in
> Books and Bookmen, April 1975, page 5, "No gassing took place in any
camp on
> German soil." The Jew L.P. Beria headed the Soviet NKVD secret police
from
> 1938 to 1953. In 1945, he announced that they had discovered a
"holocaust" of
> six million Jews. This conveniently occurred only in camps in Poland!
Beria
> would not allow any outside investigators to examine these sites.

False in many respects. Gassing did occur on German soil, although not
in great numbers. The 6 million figure does not come from the Soviets,
but from population studies. And the camps in Poland were open to
investigation, contrary to Marin's assertion.


>
>     The Jewish-owned New York Times reported in 1945 that Soviet
Russia
> supplied the figure of four million Jews having been put to death,
"in the
> gas chambers of Auschwitz."

Yes, based on an erroneous assumption of the number of days the
crematoria operated at full capacity. This foolishness was already
debunked in an early Martin post, but having little of real value to
present, he repeats himself.

>
>     However, in July of 1990, the Polish government reduced this
figure to
> 1.1 million and it was accepted by Jewish groups.

Nonsense. Historians have known since the early 50's that between
900,000 - 1.5 million were killed at Auschwitz. The refusal of the
Soviet Government to admit there error in estimation earlier has
nothing to do with historians who write history.

 Despite this evidence, the
> "official figure" of six million dead was not lowered to three
million!

As explained before, the 6 million figure has nothing to do with the
death estimates of the individual camps, having been arrived at by a
different methodology.

 (It
> should also be noted that Elizabeth Dole, president of the American
Red
> Cross, and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, revealed that the official
death
> records from Auschwitz had been uncovered in the Soviet Archives. It
listed
> 70,000 deaths from all causes.)

Elizabeth Dole had nothing to do with this. The death records of
Auschwitz record only those prisoners admitted to the camp who later
died. The vast majority of the 1.4 million Jews sent to Auschwitz were
killed immediately upon arrival, as the Nazis testified, and therefore
no official record was ever kept of them. Deniers flee from explaining
how a camp built to hold no more than 120,000 people could absorb the
more than 1.4 million which transport records indicate were sent there.
The massive cremation capacity and the gas chambers provide that answer.

>
>     No Holocaust Order Ever Given
>
>     The Germans are noted for being meticulous record keepers. There
was no
> attempt made to destroy wartime records, 1,100 tons of which were
seized in
> the U.S. Zone of occupation alone.

False. There was a massive attempt to destroy records. Unfortunately
for the Nazis, their prolific recordkeeping and mutliple copies
distribution made it impossible to do a perfect job.

 British Historian, Colin Cross, writes in
> his biography of Hitler, on page 313: "There does not exist then,
anything
> like a written order signed by Hitler for the extermination of the
Jews in
> Europe."

Of course not. But the order was a "Fuhrer Order" a verbal order as
some of his top people indicated to those who were charged with
carrying out the order.

>
>     Madagascar is a vast island off the coast of Africa in the Indian
Ocean,
> then owned by France. Thousands of pages of German documents have
been
> located providing a thorough study of the feasibility of establishing
a
> Jewish homeland on the island of Madagascar. Plans were made for the
> reimbursement of the 25,000 French citizens who lived there. Even the
> government of France studied the plan. Theodore Herzl, the founder of
> Zionism, considered Madagascar a possible site for a Jewish state. He
also
> considered Kenya, Africa, the Sinai from the Suez Canal to the Gaza
Strip,
> and a huge area in southern Poland, but they really wanted Palestine.
>
>     The German Foreign Ministry on January 25, 1939 issued a document
on the
> solution to the Jewish problem which stated: "The end policy in
regard to the
> Jews is the emigration of all Jews living in the territory of the Old
Reich."

The Madagascar Plan was rejected in 1941, the same year the Final
Solution was decided upon, The Final Solution being the extermination
of Europes Jews.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Pearls
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:12:30 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Willie...

don't cast your pearls to the swine....
Limberger and Gritz are both traitors!

one shouldn't forget the old axiom...

Once a traitor...ALWAYS a traitor!

Yah bless brother...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -9- by Willie Martin
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:15:48 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1435
> From: Willie Martin 
>
>     In Auschwitz Notebooks, we read that all of the top German
leadership
> supported this plan. "On November 12, 1938, Goring had mentioned the
question
> of Madagascar. Himmler himself had dreamed of that since 1934, a
witness
> assures us. After the armistice of June 1940 (surrender of France),
the idea
> was propounded by the Foreign Ministry and approved by Himmler as
well as by
> Hitler himself."
>
>     For these reasons SS official Reinhard Heydrich organized the
Central
> Office for Jewish Emigration on February 11, 1939. Once the war
began, this
> was no longer possible. Thus Hitler ordered the internment of Jews as
enemy
> aliens and deported them to the east. On January 27, 1942, Hitler
said: "The
> Jews must leave Europe. The best thing is that they go to Russia."

The Madagascar Plan had been abandoned at this point, and as the war on
the Russian front went bad, pushing the Jews into Russia would have
been impossible. The decision was made to kill them, in fact by this
point the Einsatzgruppen had killed many, and gassing at Chelmno camp
had already begun.

>
>     Roosevelt did the same thing as Hitler by ordering 120,000
Americans of
> Japanese descent living on the West Coast interned in concentration
camps. In
> March 1942 Roosevelt accused them of being "security risks." The
Japanese
> men, women and children were imprisoned behind barbed wire fences and
armed
> guard towers in the blazing hot desert.

Japanese Americans did not have their citizenship revoked, their
property permanently seized, and most importantly, they returned from
the internment facilities, unlike millions of Jews who were killed.

>
>     The Nuremberg War Crimes Trial heard testimony from Hans Lammers
as to
> what he considered the "Final Solution of The Jewish Problem."
Lammers was
> Chief of the Reich Chancellery and personally close to Himmler and
Hitler.
> Lammers said he asked Himmler what was the "final solution." Himmler
replied:
> "The Jews must be evacuated from Germany!" He said that Hitler told
him the
> same thing. In other words, "The Final Solution" was -- emigration!

Nonsense, which is why Martin doesn't post Lammers testimony.
Emigration as a possibility was abandoned in 1941, and the camps were
built as death factories to exterminated European Jewry. The evidence
for this presented at Nurmberg and many later trials is overwhelming,
as is the admissions, one after the other, by involved Nazis to
carrying out the effort.

>
>     When asked, "when did you first learn that five million Jews had
been
> exterminated," Lammers replied that it was "here" at the Nuremberg
trials!
> Herman Goring also told the court that the first time he had heard
anything
> about a holocaust was, "right here at Nuremberg!"

Gee, Mr. Martin is convinced by the defendents denying the charge!

>
>     Auschwitz was a massive military-industrial complex of 39 camps
of which
> 19 mainly employed Jews. The factories at the "Monowitz No. 16 Camp"
alone
> employed 126,000 workers. Holocaust expert, Leon Poliakov of Paris,
in
> Breviary of Hate, page 134, in 1979 wrote that the Jewish Warsaw
Ghetto was
> one of the Germans' "most important supply centers. The second in
economic
> importance was the Lodz ghetto because it manufactured all kinds of
goods,
> and, in particular, its textile industries constituted support of
great value
> to the German economy."

Mr. Martin likes to construct partial pictures of things to present
distorted views. The ghettos were vast holding areas, where Jews were
starved and occasionally used for labor prior to being shipped to the
death camps to be killed. The transport records of this movement exist.
Auschwitz was a massive facility and Monowitz was a huge factory, but
this has nothing to do with the fact that Auschwitz-Birkenau was a
labor camp turned death camp where over a million were gassed, cremated
buried.

>
>     Heinrich Himmler feared a typhus epidemic in the camps. Eastern
European
> Jews were very unhygienic and were often blamed for the spread of
typhus.

A disgusting lie. The outbreaks of typhus occurred in the camps because
the Nazis didn't provide proper sanitation for over 100,000 inmates.
Typhus was the responsibilty of the Nazis, who immunized themselves
against it, but not the inmates.

 On
> December 28, 1942, Himmler ordered that, "the death rate in the camps
must be
> reduced at all costs." (Source, Reitlinger's book, The Final
Solution.)

Yes, because the camp served a dual purpose of labor and extermination.
The Nazis wished to get a few months from every able bodied inmate
before killing them if they didn't die from overwork. During this
period well before the massive transports began to arrive, and before
the massive crematoria for killing had even been constructed, the need
for labor was great. Later, that all changed.

>
>     On January 20, 1943, chief inspector of the camps, Richard
Glucks,
> answered Himmler, "Every means will be used to lower the death
rates."
> (Source, Nuremberg Trial Document No. 1523.) The death rate had
indeed been
> reduced from 8.5% in July 1942 to 2.8% in June 1943.

Again, for short term labor. If they truly cared about saving Jews,
they would have made the necessary changes to the sanitation systems of
the camps thereby providing a permanent solution to the disease
problem, but they were looking for a temporary reprieve only, to
extract a fews months of labor from each Jew.

>
>     On April 17, 1943, Hitler asked Admiral Horthy, regent of Hungary
for,
> "100, 000 Jews to work on a new pursuit plane program." (Source,
Reitlinger's
> book, Die Endlosung, 1956, page 478.)
>
>     In May 1944 Hitler personally ordered that 200,000 more Jews be
put to
> work in construction and "other important military works."

Yup, more of the same, especially as the Nazis became desperate about
the military situation. But all during this time, millions were being
killed, and no permanent reprieve was ever intended by these short term
needs.

>
>     The Jews were vital to the German war industry. It would have
been
> counter productive to exterminate them. In fact, the SS arrested Karl
Koch,
> commandant of Buchenwald, for mistreating and unjustly executing some
> prisoners. After being found guilty by a military court, Koch was
sentenced
> to death and shot. If there was actually a "holocaust" he would have
been
> honored instead of executed.

Some Jews were vital, not 9 million who populated the continent, 6
million of whom were killed. Buchenwald was not a death camp, and Koch
overstepped his authority at times. He was not shot, Martin lies again.

>
>     Shindler's List features Commandant Amon Goeth, who in reality
did abuse
> prisoners. However, the film fails to inform viewers that he had been
> arrested by the SS and was in prison awaiting trial at war's end.

Movies are not history, having said that, Schindler's list was quite
accurate in its portrayals.

>
>     Most of the gruesome pictures of bodies we see in "made for TV"
holocaust
> dramas are those who died of starvation and disease during the final
chaotic
> months of the war. An example is Dachau. Some 54 died in January 1944
and 101
> in February 1944.

Martin gets repetitive again. These bodies have nothing to do with the
millions already dead and buried before the end of the war. It is true
that the Nazis in Germany at the very end of the war were intelligent
enough to know not to be mass killing the remnants of the camps, with
the allies a few weeks away from overrunning all of Germany. However,
it is irrelevant to what happened before.

>
>     When food and medical supplies could not be delivered due to
Allied
> bombings, 2,888 died in January and 3,977 in February 1945.

Food and medical supplies were readily available. Substantial
storehouses of food were found within miles of Dachau, and the civilian
populations in the vicinity of the camps were healthy and well fed.

>
>     The Impossibility of Mass Gassings Auschwitz had no mass graves.

False. The gassing was hardly impossible and the location of burning
pits and ash burial locations has been confirmed by test borings in the
camp.

The
> cremation of four million bodies would have left 15,000 tons of ash
which was
> never found.

Only 1 - 1.5 million were cremated and much ash was found. Huge amounts
of it were deposited into the Vistula River, mixing with the water and
floating away.

 Many tons of coal would have been necessary for such mass
> cremations.

Coke, which was used, was a by product of local manufacturing and was
in more than sufficient supply. In addition, the continuous burning of
corpses provides it's own fuel from body fat, as corpses are exothermic.

 Initially, the Soviets told conflicting stories about how the six
> million perished in the camps under their control. At first they
claimed that
> the inmates had been "steamed" to death.

This is false. The Soviets claimed no such thing. Occasionally Polish
farmers provided testimony about what they thought they saw going on
inside the camps from a distance. Some of them mistook the smoke from
the engines used to gas the prisoners as steam. Historians no how to
verify and corroborate this kind of testimony with other forms of
evidence. That's how history works.

>
>     The Soviets came up with a novel idea of how the Jews were
exterminated
> at the Belzec camp. "The Jews were ordered to undress as though to
take a
> bath. They were led in fact into a building that could hold hundreds
of
> people. The water was filled up to their necks. Then a powerful
electric
> current was sent into the metal flooring and within a few seconds all
the
> Jews, thousands at a time, were dead."

This was a rumor which developed during the war, and was not accorded
with any validity at Nuremberg. The historian Reitlinger discussed this
in his 1953 book,

(begin quote)

Reitlinger's _The Final Solution_ (1953) dispenses with the rumor of
mass
murder by "electrocution" at Belzec:



The inefficiency of the gassing vans produced horrors enough, but it
sees
they were nothing compared with what happened when the next step was
attempted, the application of the engine-exhaust gas to a group of
permanent chambers, each holding hundreds of people at a time. The first
of these, the Belsec gas installation, which was intended to be ready
for
the Lublin resettlement on March 16th, 1942 (_see pages 252-253_), broke
down constantly. The deportees were left in the 'transfer station' for
days on end, where they crouched in the open, naked and without food or
water. Sometimes they were left in railway box-cars to suffocate on
sidings. This story brought to London in February, 1943, cannot be
lightly
dismissed.[59] It can at least be compared with the evidence which a
_German_ court was prepared to accept in August, 1950, that on one
occasion the gas engine at Sobibor had broken down for three days on
end,
during which an entire transport had to wait under these conditins till
the survivors could be gassed.[60]

Between May and June, 1942, Belsec was out of action for six weeks,[61]
and in July it was only handling two transports a week.[62] In November-
or soon after -it was out of action for good,[63] but the Jewish
_Sonderkommando_ was occupied in effacing the mass graves till the
following June.

Strange to say, all this happened within a few yards of the main line
between Lwow and Lublin, where, in April 1943, a Jewish doctor later
escaped to Switzerland, noticed the appalling stench of the exhumed
bodie=
s
as he passed the spot by train.[64] Nevertheless the wildest legends
sourrounded the place. Dr. Gue'rin, in a prisoner-of-war camp only
twenty
miles along the line, heard that the Jews were killed by an incredible
electric current passed through water, and his story reached London in
November, 1942.[65] It was only after the war that a real survivor
appeared to describe the miserable diesel engine which had supplied the
carbon monoxide. He was Rudolf Reder, the former director of a soap
factory in Lwow, who owed his survival at the age of sixty to his
ability
to work the camp steam excavator.[66] Reder once saw the victims locked
in
the gas chamber for hours on end while efforts were made to start the
diesel engine. The same scene was described by the German gas expert,
Kurt
Gerstein, who visited Belsec on August 20th, 1942, within a few days of
Reder's arrival (_see pages 153 and 265). I took two and three-quarter
hours to start the engine and all the time the moaning could be heard in
the four gas chambers, in each which there were 750 people.[67]

[...]

59 _Black Book of Polish Jewrey_, 1943, pages 135-38.

60 Sobibor case. (_Frankfurter Rundschau_, August 24th, 1950.)

61 IMT, V, 240. (Evidence, Paul Roser.)

62 Case IV. Interrogation, Karl Wolff, _Trial of War Criminals_, V, page
279, 1951.

63 Josef Tenenbaum, _In Search of a Lost People, New York, 1949, page
123.
Evidence, Leon Weliczer.

64 Silberschein. _Die Judenausrottung in Polen, Geneva, 1944, V, page 22
(stencil).

65 _Rawa Ruska_, Marseilles, 1945.

66 Muszkat. _Polish Charges_, pages 229, _Dokumenty i Materialy_, I,
page
221. _Belsec_ (in Polish), Cracow, 1945, by Rudolf Reder.

67 IMT, PS 1553. _Trials of War Criminals_, I, page 865. This is
incomplete; full version in document books of Cases I and IV.



Source: Reitlinger, _The Final Solution_, p.140-141; notes 59-67
pp.553-5=
54.

In the above one can see that Reitlinger, with careful analysis of the
available sources, determined that Dr. Guerin's 1942 account of the rum=
or
that "Jews were killed by an incredible electric current passed through
water" was one of the rumors that surround Belzec and was dispelled by
Rudolf Reder's (and Gerstein's) eyewitness account.

(end quote)

>
>     Soviet prosecutor L.N. Smirnov actually read this accusation into
the
> record at the December 19, 1945, session of the Nuremberg trial. This
story
> finally evolved to execution by "Zyklon B" gas.

No it didn't. Zyklon B was never used at Belzec, and therefore has
nothing to do with it. Martin is again making things up as he goes
along.

 This was a widely used
> pesticide to kill lice  which was the biggest health threat in the
camps. Had
> the Germans actually wanted to perform mass exterminations, they had
products
> one-thousand times more deadly such as Sarin and Tabun nerve gas!

Neither of which were in adequate supply of could be safely used in the
camps. Zyklon B was cheap, abundant, already in the camps, and could
kill a roomful of people in minutes.

>
>     Austrian Engineer Walter Luftl issued a report in March 1992, in
which he
> found that, "Zyklon B is utterly unsuited for the purposes of
systematic mass
> murder."

Yes, a ridiculous conclusion for which he offered no realistic
evidence, which is why Martin has nothing to offer.

>
>     Fred Leuchter, America's foremost expert on executions, took a
team of
> investigators to Auschwitz in 1988 and reported:

False. Leuchter is not an expert on executions and his team consisted
of himself, his wife, an assistant and a video camera operator!

 "I traveled to Poland to
> investigate the alleged execution gas chamber facilities at the three
> concentration camps of Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek. My forensic
analysis
> and subsequent report proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that there
were no
> gas execution facilities operated by the Nazis at these sites."

His report is a joke. He improperly collected samples, used an improper
control for his experiment, and failed to provide the lab  scientist
who performed the analysis the information necessary to do the job
correctly. His testimony before the Zundel trial in Canada exposed his
ignorance of science, chmemistry, toxocology and the basic properties
of Zyklon B.

>
>     Leuchter also examined the capacity of the so-called "gas chamber
> building" at Birkenau. The Nuremberg Tribunal's document No. L-022
stated:
> "1,765,000 Jews were gassed at Birkenau between April 1942 and April
1944."
>
>     However, Leuchter found that even if used at full capacity "only
105,688"
> persons could have been "gassed."

Mr. Martin is confused. These are Leuchters numbers for cremation, not
gassing, which he claims didn't occur and couldn't occur. His numbers
for cremation are nonsense, as testimony and documentary evidence from
the manufacturer of the ovens clearly show.

His team scraped forensic samples from
> brick, mortar and concrete to find traces of cyanide compounds which
would be
> present for centuries. They were submitted to the Alpha Analytical
> Laboratories of Ashland, Massachusetts.

False. They didn't scrape for samples. They dislodged large chunks of
wall, illegally I might add, without knowing that some of their samples
were taken from areas which didn't even contained the original material!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Holohoax -10- by Willie Martin
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:32:51 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1436
> From: Willie Martin 
>
>     In March 1988, the Alpha report found that no cyanide elements,
> consistent=
>  with what could be expected to be found in a gas chamber, were
present.=20

False. They made no judgement on whether the cyanide levels found were
consistent or not. In any event, it is a wonder that any cyanide
residues were detected, because Leuchter's failure to tell Mr. Roth,
the chemist, what was being tested for resulted in an error which
invalidated the entire test. A recent New York Observer article by Ron
Rosenbaum recaps the problem:

(begin quote)

   Mr. Leuchter kept the lab man, Jim Roth, who has a doctorate in
chemistry from Cornell, in the
   dark concerning exactly where the samples came from and what exactly
he was testing for. In
   doing so, Mr. Leuchter remained in ignorance of a crucial fact about
testing for cyanide gas. As
   Mr. Roth states in Mr. Death, cyanide gas would only penetrate to a
few microns' depth in stone
   or plaster surfaces. And the fact that Mr. Leuchter took big chunks
out of walls and floors, without
   telling the lab man that he wanted the outside surface analyzed,
resulted in analysis of samples
   which, when pulverized, diluted upward of 10,000 times any cyanide
that might have been found
   on the surface of the walls-even assuming Mr. Leuchter had the right
surfaces in the first place.

(end quote)

This mistake alone, without going into the many other problems with the
Leuchter report, invalidate his entire analysis.

>
>     A retired German judge, Dr. Wilhelm Staglich said: "The
extermination=
>  thesis stands or falls with the allegation that Auschwitz was a
'death=
>  factory.'"=20

But of course it doesn't. This is a silly comment. The Holocaust would
have been massive if Auschwitz had never existed.

>
>     Fred Leuchter's finding: "We have provided the definitive proof
that
> there=
>  were no execution gas chambers utilized for genocidal purposes by
the=
>  Germans at these wartime camps. The simple fact is that the
holocaust story=
>  is not true."=20

Leuchter has demonstrated the ineptitude of a non scientist in over his
head.

>
>     How Many Jews Actually Died?=20
>
>     The World Almanac for 1947, in quoting figures supplies by the
American=
>  Jewish Committee states that the world Jewish population in 1939 was=
>  15,688,259. The New York Times of February 22, 1948, stated that the
world=
>  Jewish population ranged from 15,600,000 to 18,700,000, excluding
some=
>  600,000 to 700,000 living in Palestine. How could the Jewish
population=
>  have increased so rapidly after losing six million during World War
II?=20

Because in 1948 no post war census had yet been done. It was based on
extrapolations from the last pre-war census. In 1949 the World Almanac
published the first post war numbers, which indicated just over 11
million Jews.

>
>     Walter Sanning, the author of Dissolution of European Jewry, says
that no=
>  less than 2,200,000 Jews had emigrated out of Europe leaving
2,847,000 Jews=
>  residing there at the height of the German occupation in June 1941.

But Mr. Sannning is wrong. The Germans themselves estimated over 11
million Jews in Europe as noted in the Wannsee Protocols. Recent
analysis shows in was closer to 9 million, but either way far in excess
of Sanning's number, whoever Sanning is!

 After=
>  the war, 3,375,000 Jews, according to the Red Cross, applied for
holocaust=
>  reparations. This figure included many of the emigrants. Thus, the
actual=
>  number of those who died at the camps from all causes ranges between=
>  150,000 and 300,000.=20

Wrong as noted above.

(snip much boring silliness about alleged mistakes in movies, as if it
has anything to do with Holocaust history, any more than does a John
Wayne movie represent a true history of WWII.)

Mr. Martin continues to founder because of his great ignorance of the
subject matter and his obvious bias agains Jews as a demonstrable Jew
hater. By dealing with some myths, rumors, and pseudo-evidence from
deniers, he avoids dealing with any of the massive evidence of the
Holocaust. Such is mindless denial!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Pearls
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:34:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1446
> Willie...
>
> don't cast your pearls to the swine....
> Limberger and Gritz are both traitors!

Hehehe. In other words Willie, stop embarrassing yourself!

>
> one shouldn't forget the old axiom...
>
> Once a traitor...ALWAYS a traitor!

You are a traitor to your religion, Jew hater!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:43:08 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

© Copyright Skeptic Magazine

                        A Convergence of Evidence: The Key to
Historical Proof

Within all of these fallacies of thinking about both evolution and the
Holocaust, there is an assumption by the
creationists and the revisionists that if they can just find one tiny
crack in the structure the entire edifice will
come tumbling down. This is the fundamental flaw in their reasoning.
The Holocaust is not a single event. The
Holocaust was 10,000 events in 10,000 places, and is proved by 10,000
bits of data that converge on one
conclusion. Neither evolution nor the Holocaust can be disproved by
minor errors or inconsistencies here and
there, for the simple reason that they were never proved by these lone
bits of data in the first place. To
understand why, we must consider the nature of proof in the science of
history. How do we know anything
happened in the past?

In 1840 the English philosopher of science, William Whewell, published
his classic work on The Philosophy of
the Inductive Sciences, in which he talked at length about inductions,
or generalizations drawn from specific
facts. But to prove a theory one must have more than just one
generalization. And these multiple inductions must
all point to a definite conclusion, building upon one another
independently but in conjunction. Whewell said of
these inductions that they "jumped together" to establish the veracity
of a theory. A fond coiner of words (e.g.,
"scientist"), Whewell called this method of thinking a consilience of
inductions. "Accordingly the cases in which
inductions from classes of facts altogether different have thus jumped
together, belong only to the best
established theories which the history of science contains. And, as I
shall have occasion to refer to this
particular feature in their evidence, I will take the liberty of
describing it by a particular phrase; and will term it the
Consilience of Inductions" (p. 230).

A less cumbersome phrase might be a convergence of evidence. Evolution,
for example, is proved by the
convergence of evidence from geology, paleontology, botany, zoology,
herpetology, entomology, biogeography,
anatomy, physiology, and comparative anatomy. No one piece of evidence
from these diverse fields says
"evolution" on it. A fossil is a snapshot. But a fossil in a geological
bed, with other fossils of the same and
different species, compared to species in lower strata and upper
strata, contrasted to modern similar
organisms, juxtaposed with species in other parts of the world, past
and present, and so on, turn that snapshot
into a motion picture. Each set of inductions from each field jumps
together to a grand conclusion--evolution.
This is how narrative history becomes scientific history.

The process is no different in proving the Holocaust. How do we know
about the Holocaust? We have:

   1.Written documents--hundreds of thousands of letters, memos,
blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles,
     memoirs, and confessions.

   2.Eyewitness testimony--accounts from survivors, Kapos,
Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants,
     local townspeople, and even upper-echelon Nazis who did not deny
the Holocaust.

   3.Photographs--official military and press photographs, civilian
photographs, secret photographs taken by
     survivors, aerial photographs, German and Allied film footage,
etc.

   4.The camps themselves--many concentration camps, work camps, and
death camps are still extant in
     varying degrees of originality and reconstruction.

   5.Negative evidence--if five to six million Jews were not killed,
where did all those people go?

                                   A Case Study in Convergence

Let us examine how this works as a case study in history as a science.
We have an eyewitness account by a
survivor who says he heard about gassing Jews while he was at
Auschwitz. The revisionist says that survivors
exaggerate and that their memories are unsound. Another survivor tells
another story different in details but with
the core similarity that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. The revisionist
claims that rumors were floating
throughout the camps and many survivors incorporated them into their
memories. An SS guard confesses after
the war that he actually saw people being gassed and cremated. The
revisionist claims that these confessions
were forced out of the Nazis by the Allies. But now a Sonderkommando--a
Jew who helped the Nazis load dead
bodies out of the gas chambers and into the crematoria--says he not
only heard about it, and not only saw it
happening, he actually participated in the process. The revisionist
explains this away by saying that the
Sonderkommando accounts make no sense-- their figures of numbers of
bodies are exaggerated and their
dates are incorrect. What about the camp commandant, who confessed
after the war that he not only heard,
saw, and participated in the process, but that he orchestrated it!? He
was tortured, says the revisionist. But
what about his autobiography written after his trial, conviction, and
sentencing to death, when he had nothing to
gain by lying? No one knows why people confess to ridiculous crimes,
explains the revisionist, but they do.

No single testimony says "Holocaust" on it. But taking many together
the story begins to unfold. And now the
revisionist's defense is beginning to unravel. Instead of the historian
having to present "just one proof," the
revisionist must now disprove five pieces of historical data, with five
different methods of disproof. But there is
more. We have the blueprints for both the gas chambers and the
crematoria--huge structures built for
processing large numbers of bodies. Those were used strictly for
delousing, claims the revisionist, and thanks
to the Allies' war against Germany, the Germans were never given the
opportunity to deport the Jews to their
own homeland, and instead had to put them into overcrowded camps where
disease and lice were rampant.
What about the huge orders of Zyklon-B gas? It was strictly used for
delousing all those diseased inmates.
What about those speeches by Hitler, Himmler, Frank, and Goebbels
talking about the "extermination" of the
Jews? Oh, they really meant "rooting out," as in deporting them out of
the Reich. What about Eichmann's
confession at his trial? He was coerced. Hasn't the German government
confessed that the Nazis attempted to
exterminate European Jewry? Yes, but they lied so they could rejoin the
family of nations.

Now the revisionist must rationalize no less than 14 different bits of
evidence that "jump together" to a specific
conclusion. But our convergence continues. If six million Jews did not
die, where did they go? They are in
Russia, and America, and Israel, and scattered throughout the world.
But why can't they find each other? They
do-- haven't you heard the occasional stories of long-lost siblings
making contact with each other after many
decades? What about those photos and newsreels of the liberation of the
camps with all those dead bodies
and starving/dying inmates? Those people were well taken care of until
the end of the war when the Allies were
mercilessly bombing German cities, factories, and supply lines that
were feeding those camps--the Nazis tried
valiantly to save their prisoners but the combined strength of the
Allies was too much. But what about all those
accounts by prisoners of the brutality of the Nazis--the random
shootings and beatings, the deplorable
conditions, the freezing temperatures, the overwork, etc.? This is war.
The Americans put Japanese in camps.
The Japanese imprisoned Chinese. The Russians tortured Poles and
Germans. War is hell. The Nazis are no
different from anyone else.

Post Hoc Rationalization. We are now up to 18 proofs all converging
toward one conclusion. The revisionist is
desperately swinging away at them all, steadfastly determined not to
give up his belief system. He is relying on
what might be called post hoc rationalization--an after-the- fact
reasoning to justify contrary evidence. In
addition, the revisionist then shifts the burden of disproving all this
evidence to the historian by mistakenly
demanding that each one of these pieces of evidence independently prove
the Holocaust.

Am I making all this up? No. This is not a hypothetical case study.
Every one of these examples, and 10,000
more, are readily available in the various sources cited in this essay,
as well as Danuta Czech's Auschwitz
Chronicle (1990), Henry Friedlander and Sybil Milton's The Holocaust:
Ideology, Bureaucracy, and Genocide
(1980), Alex Grobman's Genocide (1983), Michael Marrus's edited
nine-volume collection of articles on The
Nazi Holocaust (1989), and Leni Yahil's The Holocaust (1990). See
Bibliography for full citations, as well as for
the revisionists' responses to these works, which include (with those
already cited): Austin App's The Six Million
Swindle (1973), Arthur Butz's The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (1976),
Friedrich and Thomson's The Hitler
We Loved and Why (1977), Richard Harwood's Did Six Million Really Die?
(1992), David Irving's Hitler's War
(1977), and Fred Leuchter's numerous Leuchter Reports on Auschwitz,
Dachau, Mauthausen, Hartheim, and
the Mississippi Execution Gas Chamber. Publications about the
revisionists include Shelly Shapiro's Truth
Prevails (1990), Pierre Vidal-Naquet's Assassins of Memory (1993),
Deborah Lipstadt's Denying the
Holocaust (1993), the Simon Wiesenthal Center's The Neo-Nazi Movement
in Germany (1993), and the ADL's
Hitler's Apologists (1993).

Since it is not possible in a magazine-length article to adequately
cover all of the points made above, I will focus
in depth on two major points of contention by the revisionists: (1) the
intentionality issue-- whether Hitler and/or
the other major Nazis ordered the Holocaust; and (2) the gas
chamber/crematoria accounts. For each we will
examine the convergence of evidence, documenting each step along the
way.

                                           Work Cited

Shermer, Michael. "Proving the Holocaust: The Refutation of Revisionism
& the Restoration of History,"
Skeptic, Vol. 2, No. 4, Altadena, California, June, 1994. Published by
the Skeptics Society, 2761 N. Marengo
Ave., Altadena, CA 91001, (818) 794-3119.

Skeptic Magazine
http://www.skeptic.com

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:40:47 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> jsavage  wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1441
> > Hi all!
> >
> > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph
> Ezekial
> > > of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist
> Mind:"
> >
> > js
> > When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
> > with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
> > immediately associate the term with the structural and
> > functional deviations from the normal that constitute
> > disease/s ......
>
> Having fun with your computer dictionary!

js
Don't own a computer dictionairy...no need :)

>
> >
> > If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
> > of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
> > stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
> > ....to any degree....is diseased!....
>
> No. He clearly stated this as a pathology of many deniers, particularly
> those with a Neo-Nazi fixation.
>
js

Pure supposition!....In the opening statement neo-nazi
had not been mentioned....shows the emotional deformity
of what little mind you possess....

Give me your definition of neo-nazi....

> >
> > If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
> > mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
> > accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
> > normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
> > an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!
>
> He was using it in the sense of abnormal.

js
Most assuredly!....off course we are going to
allow him to define abnormal for us...aren't we?!

> Denying proven history while
> secretly knowing it happened and reveling in that fact is abnormal by
> any definition.

js
Give me proof...and start with the numbers...the
six million figure....we'll soon see who is abnormal!

> His professional judgement in this regard is certainly
> more meaningful

js
He is a jew....Of course there would be no prepossesion
on his part...or yours....would there?

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the begining
and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in
him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for
he is a liar, and the father of it".  John 8:44

One would be wise to believe the words of our God...
especially so when they are concerning antichrists!

> than the counterfeit "facts" presented by Jew hating
> deniers on this list.
>

> >
> > Let's see....
> > >
> > > "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role
> >
> > js
> > Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
> > Of course nothing of a lie is normal....
>
> Context means everything. Abnormal in the context used is a strong word.
>

js
Correct....but this is his context....he is the one
defining abnormal....Which in itself doesn't make it so....

See the pattern....we must always allow them to
define the term...and then like good little sheep
fall in line and do their biding....

> >
> >
> >
> > > in all this.  On the one hand,
> > > Holocaust denial matters to the movement,
> >
> > js
> > This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
> > might not exist....(whatever the movement is)
>
> No, without the reality of the Holocaust. See, you're abnormal.
>
js
He didn't say that!...and you are trying to spin his
statement....

> >
> >
> > > and its presses claim
> > > insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic murders
> took
> > > place.
> >
> > js
> > which is an opposing and antagonistic view point.
>
> Historical fact does not rest on viewpoints, which is why you never
> offer any substantial rebuttal to the known facts of that period.

js
It most certainly does!...it comes down to the fact of
which view point you believe....The conqueror writes the
history books....

>
> ...The jew
> > doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
> > he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....
>
> Ah, this must be some of the fact laden stuff you were talking about.
> Sounds like mindless Jew hating to me!

js
John 8:44; John 12:40; Mt 13:15; 1John 2:18-23; 4:3;
2John 7-11; John 5:23;

>
> >
> >
> > > The white racist movement
> >
> > js
> > If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
> > it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!
>
> No it doesn't.

js
It has too!!!

>It's how they describe themselves.

js
Of another race??....you are mumbling!

> But only a racist
> would seek to read such a meaning in the sentence.
>
js
One can NOT be a racist among his own race...you are
attempting to redefine the word racist to fit your own
preconceived ideas!.....

> >
> >
> > > knows that for most people the
> > > immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word 'Holocaust,'
> an
> > > association that hinders broad organizing.
> >
> > js
> > Nothing but word association...use them often enough
> > together and in a couple of generations they will become
> > synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!
>
> Apt word association, which correctly describes National Socialism in
> action, and which Neo-Nazis seek to distort because it is properly
> anathema to decent peole.
>

js
Nice spin....to bad it sucks!

> >
> > Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....
>
> Is that how it happened with you?

js
No....it took emersion for the remission of sins (which
in my case requires more than an eye dropper )

>
>
> >
> > > that the movement's                 fascination with the Holocaust
> is
> > > exactly that: fascination.  The most
> >
> > js
> > FASCINATION?....anybody here know what the word
> > fascination means....
>
> Is this the e
>
js
Yes it is good buddy!....You are doing very good....
Won't mommie and daddy be happy!

Okay...the next letter in the alphabet is   f!

> >
> > > important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it was a
> > > force so
> > > strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.
> >
> > js
> > Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...
> >
>
> Perhaps you, but that is your pathology.
>

js
I wonder if it is the 'pathology' of the mother
and father of this baby?

http://www.hezbollah.org/terror.htm

or is this your 'pathology'....

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
Rabbi Yaacov Perrin (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)

....must be...you condone it by graveling at their feet!

>
> >
> > > contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the
> Holocaust,
> >
> > js
> > Here we go again....only whites are racists ....
>
> Having trouble with reading comprehension I see. Probably a result of
> having to look up every other word.
>
> >
> > And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
> > their own addmission!....
> >
>
> When did they admit this? No wonder you have trouble interpreting the
> Bible.
>

js
Ever think that it might be YOUR problem....

Jewish  Post  &  Opinion
June 28, 1968

Jews Are Not White,
Prof. Tells Rabbis

BOSTON - A political scientist at the Massachusetts Institute
of          Technology, who has been speaking to Jewish conventions over
the
past few months, told the Reform Rabbis meeting here that Jews
are not white.

Speaking as a Jewish academician, Prof. Leonard J. Fein
explained         that "we are not white symbolicaly, and we are not
white literally."
He then  added  we  should   "not  permit ourselves to be lumped
together with  white America,  for that is not where we belong."

CONTINUING he explained that "We are too much an oppressed people,
still, and too much a rejected people even in this country to accept
the designation 'white.' And to count ourselves as white, moreover
is to deny our brotherhood with the Yemenites and the Kurdistains in
Israel, with the B'nei Yisrael from India and the Black Jews of New
York."

Employing a theme which he used in addressing other Jewish
conventions, Dr. Fein asserted that Jews are not black. "We
are Jews," he went on, "and  because we are Jews, and not
white, and not black, we must see to it, as a community,
that we do not come to act as whites, wheather by choice
or because others so identify us. Not only because it is
forbidden us, not only because we of all people ought to
know better, but because we shall cut ourselves off from
our own future if we do."

He then went on to relate this view to the Negro. "And
because we are Jews, it seems to me that we are entitled
to insist that there be a  special relationship between
us and Negoes; a relationship based not upon a  common
enemy, not upon a common history, but instead upon a
common purpose, the purpose of teaching America at long
last what pluralism is all about."

UHOO STUPID!....this is called assimilation...good
buddy!
They jews are NOT for the races....they want ONE BIG race...
which again is totally opposite from what the Bible teaches!

> >
> > > need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen -- so
> > > that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about it, can
> > > keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that they
> are
> > > part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
> > >
> > > "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore them.
> > >
> > > "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for a
> > > moment,
> > > that people like me are telling the truth:
> >
> > js
> > I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
> > the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
> > truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
> > militant knew John 8:44?
>
> You're lying or stupid. He's talking to people who profess disbelief,
> therefore he's asking them to suspend disbelief for the purposes of
> answering a question. By the way Jew hater, his ethnic background is
> irrelevant.
>
js
Disbelief in what?....the hohohoax!?

When one is telling the truth YOU DO NOT HAVE TO
PRETEND...good buddy! TRUTH will stand ANY investigation!

Why did this jew want to pretend that he was telling
the truth

....and when the word of God says someone is a liar
you had better be able to discern who the people are
that he is refering too...(John 8:44)...because in
2John 11 God says if you condone their evil deeds you
become as one of them....

> >
> >
> >
> >
> > that Hitler and his group
> > > DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way guilty of
> a
> > > crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one answered
> that
> > > it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews, they
> > > would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
> > > themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway,
> and so
> > > on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been able to
> > > imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I think
> that
> > > they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly
> glad;
> > > it reassures them."
> >
> > js
> > And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!
>
> Thinking is not something concerning which you demonstrate much ability.
>
> You must have attended school on some Iowa farm.

js
I believe you made the following quote...

> "his ethnic background is irrelevant."....

Which makes you a LIAR and a hypocrite...good buddy! :)

You are living proof that....

Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:07:59 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>
> © Copyright Skeptic Magazine
>
> A Convergence of Evidence: The Key to
> Historical Proof
>
>
> Within all of these fallacies of thinking about both evolution and the
> Holocaust,

EVOLUTION!!! hahahahaha!!!!...They are using evolution to try
and sell the hohohoax...unbelievable!

These people are getting desperate! Using a THEORY to prop up
a dying hohohoax....

Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
we should never underestimate the power of very
stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....

        

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] SANHEDRIN
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:16:17 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

        SANHEDRIN

             TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH

                             W I T H  N 0 T E S, G L 0 S S A R Y

                                         A N D  I N D I C E S


                                                           CHAPTERS I - VI

                                                     By


               J A C O B  S H A C H T E R

                                          CHAPTER VII


                                                   By


               H.  F R E E D M A N,  B.A., Ph.D.



                   IN TWO VOLUMES
                                  I



                                 LONDON

                     THE SONCINO PRESS

                                   1935






  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               [Click Here!]
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] INTRODUCTION
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:30:10 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          INTRODUCTION

The word Sanhedrin in the tractate which bears its name has a spe-
calised  meaning  somewhat remote from  that  of  its Greek original
synedrich. It designates the higher courts of law which in the latter
part of  the  period  of  the  Second  Temple administered  justice in
Palestine according  to the Mosaic law in the more serious criminal,
and especially capital cases. The main subject of our tractate is the
composition, powers, and functions of these courts. Incidentally,as
is only natural,  it deals in  some detail with the conduct of criminal
cases;  and  in this way it forms, along  with  Makkoth, the chief re-
posiitory of the criminal law of the Tamud.
   When the Mishnab was compiled, towards theend of the second
century C.E., the Sanhedrin was already a thing of the more or less
distant past.  As an  institution  it  does not seem to have survived
the destruction of the Second Temple; it may even have been falling
into decay for some time  before that event.  Consequently,  the  in-
formation about  it  given in the Talmud,  in this and other trattates,
has neither the fulness nor the precision that we could desire. Both
Josephus  and  the  New Testament  contain  references  to  what is
called the "Synhedrion" of the Jewish people,  which  it is  not easy
to  reconcile  with  what  we  are  told  about  any  of  the  Sanhedrin
mentioned in the Talmud.
   From  this  tractate  itself  we  learn  that  there  were  two  kinds or

Sanhedrin - the  Great  Sanhedrin,  with  71 members and the Lesser,
with  23.  Both,  according  to  tradition,  were  instituted  by Moses,
but the  first  date  at  which  a  Sanhedrin  is  mentioned  as  actially
functioning  is  57  B.C.E.  In  the  Talmud  the  Sanhedrin  is  almost
always spokenofas a purely judicial instittition,and the name seems
in  fact  to  be  interchangeable with  Beth  Din Haggadol - the great
Court of Iustice 'The Great Sanliedrin  met in the Lishkath Hagazith
[Chamber of Hewn Stone]  in  the Temple  at Jerusalem;  the  Lesser
Sanhedrin  [there seem to  have been several of them]  met  both  in
Jerusalem and at other places. The Lesser Sanhedrin was also corn-
pctcnt  to try capital cases: but  the  Great  Sanhedrin  was  the  su-






  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                [click here]
                                Click Here!
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] INTRODUCTION
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 02:31:56 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
          INTRODUCTION
preme Court or Appeal on all disputed points of law or religious
practice. By whom members of the Sanhedrin were appointed is
not clear from the Talmud. Naturally they were chosen primarily
on account of their learning, but it seems that priests had a prior
claim, other things being equal. In the period or the Hasmoneans,
Sadduccean or Pharisaic elements seem to have predominated in the
Great Sanhedrin, according to the disposition of the ruling prince.
     According to the Talmud the two most distinguished members
Of the Great Sanhedrin were known as Nasi [Prince] and Ah-beth-din
[Father or the Beth din], while there was a third known as Mufla
[distinguished]. The last named may have been a kind of expert
adviser; the other two titles seem to have been purely honorary,
and not to have denoted any official position. Certain it is that in
Josephus and the New Testament it is the High Priest who is spoken
of as the President of the Synhedrion, and this in itself seems in-
herently probable. Josephus and the New Testament also picture
the Synhedrion as an institution of some political importance;
whether this institution was identical with the Great Sanhedrin
of the Talmud it is difficult to say.(1)
     In the eyes of Christian students, Sanhedrin has always occupied
a favoured place among the tractates of the Talmud on account of
the light which it is capable of throwing on the trial of Jesus of
Nazareth. It is not without significance that when Reuchlin, the
Christian champion of Jewish learning, searched Europe to find a
copy of the Talmud, the only Treatise he could find was Sanhedrin.
For the Jewish student also, in spite of the fact that its main theme
was already at the time of its compilation one of academic interest
only, it possesses a peculiar fascination, partly on account of the
fundamental importance of the legal principles with which it deals,
partly on account of the wide range of its digressions and the ex-
ceptionally high quality of its aggadic material. In particular, in
view of their influence on the teaching 0f Maimonides, may be
mentioned its famous statement on the limits of monarchic power.

(1) On this question v, Krauss, Introduction to Die Mischna
Sanhedrin-Makkot,
1933: Buchler, Das Synedrion in Jerusalem und das grosse Beth Din in der
Quaderhalle
des jerusalemischen Tempels; and Taubsch. Z.

                                          xii


  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              eGroups Spotlight:
 [eGroups.com]Constructed Languages - The CONLANG list is devoted to the
              discussion of "constructed" or "artificial" languages for general
              communication. Click Here!
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:02:31 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1451
>
>
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > jsavage  wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1441
> > >
> > >
> > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph
> > Ezekial
> > > > of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist
> > Mind:"
> > >
> > > js
> > > When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
> > > with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
> > > immediately associate the term with the structural and
> > > functional deviations from the normal that constitute
> > > disease/s ......
> >
> > Having fun with your computer dictionary!
>
> js
> Don't own a computer dictionairy...no need :)

Strange how your definitions match the unsophisticated dictionaries
found on most computers!

>
> >
> > >
> > > If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
> > > of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
> > > stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
> > > ....to any degree....is diseased!....
> >
> > No. He clearly stated this as a pathology of many deniers,
particularly
> > those with a Neo-Nazi fixation.
> >
> js
>
> Pure supposition!....

Irrelevant to your erroneous characterization that ANYBODY who had
questions about the Holocaust is diseased. But it is typical of you
having had one nonsensical notions exposed to run to something out
without comment.

In the opening statement neo-nazi
> had not been mentioned....shows the emotional deformity
> of what little mind you possess....

Sure!

>
> Give me your definition of neo-nazi....

No. Look it up on your little computer.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
> > > mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
> > > accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
> > > normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
> > > an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!
> >
> > He was using it in the sense of abnormal.
>
> js
> Most assuredly!....off course we are going to
> allow him to define abnormal for us...aren't we?!

It's not his definition.

>
>
> > Denying proven history while
> > secretly knowing it happened and reveling in that fact is abnormal
by
> > any definition.
>
> js
> Give me proof...and start with the numbers...the
> six million figure....we'll soon see who is abnormal!

Snippets are posted daily. You run from any discussion of it. Give me
proof that the bombing of Nagasaki occurred resulting in the deaths of
70,000 people?
>
>
>
> > His professional judgement in this regard is certainly
> > more meaningful
>
> js
> He is a jew....Of course there would be no prepossesion
> on his part...or yours....would there?

His Jewishess is irrelevant, just as your feigned Christianity is. Your
behavior, however, is indicative of the pathology.

>
> "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
> father ye will do. He was a murderer from the begining
> and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in
> him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for
> he is a liar, and the father of it".  John 8:44

Irrelevant to the discussion.

>
> One would be wise to believe the words of our God...
> especially so when they are concerning antichrists!
>
>
> > than the counterfeit "facts" presented by Jew hating
> > deniers on this list.
> >
>
>
> > >
> > > Let's see....
> > > >
> > > > "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role
> > >
> > > js
> > > Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
> > > Of course nothing of a lie is normal....
> >
> > Context means everything. Abnormal in the context used is a strong
word.
> >
>
> js
> Correct....but this is his context....he is the one
> defining abnormal....Which in itself doesn't make it so....

No he isn't. He's using accepted definitions. And you are abnormal.
Live with it.

>
> See the pattern....we must always allow them to
> define the term...and then like good little sheep
> fall in line and do their biding....

I find it hard to imagine anything you could accomplish which "they"
would wish to bid. You're merely a paranoid hater, and you would be
recognized as such by 9 out of 10 people exposed to you.

>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > in all this.  On the one hand,
> > > > Holocaust denial matters to the movement,
> > >
> > > js
> > > This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
> > > might not exist....(whatever the movement is)
> >
> > No, without the reality of the Holocaust. See, you're abnormal.
> >
> js
> He didn't say that!...and you are trying to spin his
> statement....

Backwards as usual. It is you trying to spin his statement, although I
realize it just may be your poor reading comprehension.

>
> > >
> > >
> > > > and its presses claim
> > > > insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic
murders
> > took
> > > > place.
> > >
> > > js
> > > which is an opposing and antagonistic view point.
> >
> > Historical fact does not rest on viewpoints, which is why you never
> > offer any substantial rebuttal to the known facts of that period.
>
>
> js
> It most certainly does!...it comes down to the fact of
> which view point you believe....The conqueror writes the
> history books....

The conqueror doesn't write the facts. Facts and viewpoints are not the
same. You wish to believe that because you think it provides some
credibility to whatever assinine opinion you wish to offer. But you
can't give me a single instance in history were your "conquerors"
writing of history created the existence of a massive event that didn't
really occur. You run from facts and offer delusions instead.

>
>
>
> >
> > ...The jew
> > > doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
> > > he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....
> >
> > Ah, this must be some of the fact laden stuff you were talking
about.
> > Sounds like mindless Jew hating to me!
>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > The white racist movement
> > >
> > > js
> > > If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
> > > it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!
> >
> > No it doesn't.
>
> js
> It has too!!!

No it doesn't. The word would be "to" and I see your ability to
construct a simple logic set is missing.
>
> >It's how they describe themselves.
>
> js
> Of another race??....you are mumbling!

The white racists, try to keep up.

>
>
> > But only a racist
> > would seek to read such a meaning in the sentence.
> >
> js
> One can NOT be a racist among his own race...you are
> attempting to redefine the word racist to fit your own
> preconceived ideas!.....
>

Nonsense. One most certainly can.

>
> > >
> > >
> > > > knows that for most people the
> > > > immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word
'Holocaust,'
> > an
> > > > association that hinders broad organizing.
> > >
> > > js
> > > Nothing but word association...use them often enough
> > > together and in a couple of generations they will become
> > > synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!
> >
> > Apt word association, which correctly describes National Socialism
in
> > action, and which Neo-Nazis seek to distort because it is properly
> > anathema to decent peole.
> >
>
> js
> Nice spin....to bad it sucks!

Nice empty response. And this time you should have used "too".
>
>
>
>
> > >
> > > Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....
> >
> > Is that how it happened with you?
>
> js
> No....it took emersion for the remission of sins (which
> in my case requires more than an eye dropper )
>

I imagine.

>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > that the movement's                 fascination with the
Holocaust
> > is
> > > > exactly that: fascination.  The most
> > >
> > >  > >
> > > > important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it
was a
> > > > force so
> > > > strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.
> > >
> > > js
> > > Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps you, but that is your pathology.
> >
>
> js
> I wonder if it is the 'pathology' of the mother
> and father of this baby?
>
> http://www.hezbollah.org/terror.htm

Ah, another Jew hating site! If you seek lies to fit your notions, you
will find them, hater.

>
> or is this your 'pathology'....
>
> "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
> Rabbi Yaacov Perrin (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)

Do you know anything of the context of that remark? Thought not.

>
> ....must be...you condone it by graveling at their feet!

Graveling? You really don't have much to offer,do you?

>
> >
> > >
> > > > contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the
> > Holocaust,
> > >
> > > js
> > > Here we go again....only whites are racists ....
> >
> > Having trouble with reading comprehension I see. Probably a result
of
> > having to look up every other word.
> >
> > >
> > > And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
> > > their own addmission!....
> > >
> >
> > When did they admit this? No wonder you have trouble interpreting
the
> > Bible.
> >
>
> js
> Ever think that it might be YOUR problem....

Heh, heh.

>
>
> UHOO STUPID!....this is called assimilation...good
> buddy!

Irrelvant to your erroneous point.


> They jews are NOT for the races....they want ONE BIG race...
> which again is totally opposite from what the Bible teaches!

So what. You'd probably look better black.

>
>
>
> > >
> > > > need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen
-- so
> > > > that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about
it, can
> > > > keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that
they
> > are
> > > > part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
> > > >
> > > > "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore
them.
> > > >
> > > > "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for
a
> > > > moment,
> > > > that people like me are telling the truth:
> > >
> > > js
> > > I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
> > > the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
> > > truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
> > > militant knew John 8:44?
> >
> > You're lying or stupid. He's talking to people who profess
disbelief,
> > therefore he's asking them to suspend disbelief for the purposes of
> > answering a question. By the way Jew hater, his ethnic background is
> > irrelevant.
> >
> js
> Disbelief in what?....the hohohoax!?

Gee, you are slow.

>
> When one is telling the truth YOU DO NOT HAVE TO
> PRETEND...good buddy! TRUTH will stand ANY investigation!

You're not telling the truth. You're so ignorant of the facts you
couldn't know if you were or not. Just more of your pathology.

>
> Why did this jew want to pretend that he was telling
> the truth

He wasn't. It's called a hypothetical, such as if I were to ask you to
imagine your IQ exceeded double digits.

>
>
> ....and when the word of God says someone is a liar
> you had better be able to discern who the people are
> that he is refering too...(John 8:44)...because in
> 2John 11 God says if you condone their evil deeds you
> become as one of them....

Irrelevant.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > that Hitler and his group
> > > > DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way
guilty of
> > a
> > > > crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one
answered
> > that
> > > > it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews,
they
> > > > would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
> > > > themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway,
> > and so
> > > > on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been
able to
> > > > imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I
think
> > that
> > > > they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly
> > glad;
> > > > it reassures them."
> > >
> > > js
> > > And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!
> >
> > Thinking is not something concerning which you demonstrate much
ability.
> >
> > You must have attended school on some Iowa farm.
>
> js
> I believe you made the following quote...
>
> > "his ethnic background is irrelevant."....
>
> Which makes you a LIAR and a hypocrite...good buddy! :)

Non sequitur. You really are trying too hard.

>
> You are living proof that....
>
> Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....

Do you know what artificial intelligence is?

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:05:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1452
>
>
> >
> > © Copyright Skeptic Magazine
> >
> > A Convergence of Evidence: The Key to
> > Historical Proof
> >
> >
> > Within all of these fallacies of thinking about both evolution and
the
> > Holocaust,
>
> EVOLUTION!!! hahahahaha!!!!...They are using evolution to try
> and sell the hohohoax...unbelievable!

No. He's pointing out some of the mindless parallels between deniers of
the Holocaust and deniers of science. In other words, he talking about
amoeba brains like you.

>
> These people are getting desperate! Using a THEORY to prop up
> a dying hohohoax....

That's not what he's doing. You could at least maximize your limited
comprehension abilities by reading the entire post before beginning
your ignorant replies.

>
> Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
> we should never underestimate the power of very
> stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....

Who helps you tie your shoes in the morning! Clearly responding to this
was too much for you!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Wetzel Letter - Nazi Holocaust Documents
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:16:23 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Excerpted from a memorandum dated 27 April, 1942 by Dr. Erhard
Wetzel  (a lawyer), who was serving as desk officer in the Reich
Ministry for  the Eastern Territories
["Nazism:  A History in Documents and Eyewitness Accounts, 1919-1945",
Volume II, J.Noakes and G.Pridham, editors. Schocken Books, New York,
(c)1988 by the Dept. of History and Archeology, University of Exeter.
ISBN 0-8053-0973-5 (vol. 1), 0-8052-0972-7 (vol. 2). Document #690 on
p.979]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Re:  the Solution of the Polish Question

 ...It should be obvious that one cannot solve the Polish problem by
liquidating the Poles in the same way as the Jews.  Such a solution
to the Polish problem would burden the German people with guilt for
years to come and lose us the sympathies of people everywhere,
particularly since our neighbors would be bound to reckon that
they would be treated in the same way when the time came.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Pery Broad - Nazi Holocaust Testimony
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:18:02 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
 ... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was
SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:30:14 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> jsavage  wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1451
> >
> >
> > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > jsavage  wrote:
> > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1441
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by Ralph
> > > Ezekial
> > > > > of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The Racist
> > > Mind:"
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
> > > > with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
> > > > immediately associate the term with the structural and
> > > > functional deviations from the normal that constitute
> > > > disease/s ......
> > >
> > > Having fun with your computer dictionary!
> >
> > js
> > Don't own a computer dictionairy...no need :)
>
> Strange how your definitions match the unsophisticated dictionaries
> found on most computers!
>
js
Regrettably...there are situations when one must descend to a less
dignified level of communication....It is truly afflictive to lower
oneself to the utter most depths of the earth just to communicate
with a UHOO STUPID -- good buddy!

> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
> > > > of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
> > > > stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
> > > > ....to any degree....is diseased!....
> > >
> > > No. He clearly stated this as a pathology of many deniers,
> particularly
> > > those with a Neo-Nazi fixation.
> > >
> > js
> >
> > Pure supposition!....
>
> Irrelevant to your erroneous characterization that ANYBODY who had
> questions about the Holocaust is diseased.

js
Your ability to read AND comprehend ANYTHING beyond a pre-
school level is exceptionally obvious....

UHOO STUPID!...Notice the sentence in question begins with "If"....
Starting a sentence with "If" makes it conditional...good buddy!

It does not make it an "erroneous characterization"...good buddy!

I will make the following suggestion....go to your
"sophisticated" dictionary of choice....and if at all
possible...learn the meaning of the word "If"....good buddy!

> But it is typical of you
> having had one nonsensical notions exposed to run to something out
> without comment.
>

js
The above is an exceptional example of how NOT to construct
a sentence....Talk about drivel! hahahaha!....Only God Almighty
knows what you were trying to convey.....good buddy!

A sentence is a number of words containing complete sense
or a sentiment...and followed by a full pause....good buddy!

> In the opening statement neo-nazi
> > had not been mentioned....shows the emotional deformity
> > of what little mind you possess....
>
> Sure!
>
> >
> > Give me your definition of neo-nazi....
>
> No. Look it up on your little computer.
> >

Just as I thouht!!!....good buddy!  You don't have a
definition!! All you are capable of doing is parroting
the lies others have told you....

It is called boot licking...good buddy! (of course
it is possible you have that fettish and do enjoy it)

Give me a dictionary definition of the word neo-nazi!..

I only have two English dictionaries...an 1828 Webster's
and a little red paperback of some kind....

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
> > > > mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
> > > > accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
> > > > normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
> > > > an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!
> > >
> > > He was using it in the sense of abnormal.
> >
> > js
> > Most assuredly!....off course we are going to
> > allow him to define abnormal for us...aren't we?!
>
> It's not his definition.
>

js
It most certainly is! He knows most people have a
limited understanding of the word 'pathology' and
will not spend the time to "look it up"....by not
giving a specific definition he allows the reader
to "fill in the blank" with what ever they believe
is the meaning of the word....In all but a few
cases their definition will be erroneous....This is
his hoped for definition....it is an old trick of
spin artists....good buddy!

> >
> >
> > > Denying proven history while
> > > secretly knowing it happened and reveling in that fact is abnormal
> by
> > > any definition.
> >
> > js
> > Give me proof...and start with the numbers...the
> > six million figure....we'll soon see who is abnormal!
>
> Snippets are posted daily. You run from any discussion of it. Give me
> proof that the bombing of Nagasaki occurred resulting in the deaths of
> 70,000 people?
> >
> >
> >
> > > His professional judgement in this regard is certainly
> > > more meaningful
> >
> > js
> > He is a jew....Of course there would be no prepossesion
> > on his part...or yours....would there?
>
> His Jewishess is irrelevant, just as your feigned Christianity is. Your
> behavior, however, is indicative of the pathology.
>
js
"Denying proven history while secretly knowing it happened
and reveling in that fact is abnormal by any definition."

> >
> > "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
> > father ye will do. He was a murderer from the begining
> > and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in
> > him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for
> > he is a liar, and the father of it".  John 8:44
>
> Irrelevant to the discussion.
>
js
Not in the least....good buddy!....the word of God
says..."When he speaketh a lie when he speaketh OF HIS OWN:...".

It is entirely different when he is speaking *to*
his own....

> >
> > One would be wise to believe the words of our God...
> > especially so when they are concerning antichrists!
> >
> >
> > > than the counterfeit "facts" presented by Jew hating
> > > deniers on this list.
> > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Let's see....
> > > > >
> > > > > "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
> > > > Of course nothing of a lie is normal....
> > >
> > > Context means everything. Abnormal in the context used is a strong
> word.
> > >
> >
> > js
> > Correct....but this is his context....he is the one
> > defining abnormal....Which in itself doesn't make it so....
>
> No he isn't. He's using accepted definitions. And you are abnormal.
> Live with it.
>
js
He hasn't defined anything!

> >
> > See the pattern....we must always allow them to
> > define the term...and then like good little sheep
> > fall in line and do their biding....
>
> I find it hard to imagine anything you could accomplish which "they"
> would wish to bid. You're merely a paranoid hater, and you would be
> recognized as such by 9 out of 10 people exposed to you.
>

js
Your last statement is nothing but a LIE!!!....Liar...Liar
pants on fire!!!


> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > in all this.  On the one hand,
> > > > > Holocaust denial matters to the movement,
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
> > > > might not exist....(whatever the movement is)
> > >
> > > No, without the reality of the Holocaust. See, you're abnormal.
> > >
> > js
> > He didn't say that!...and you are trying to spin his
> > statement....
>
> Backwards as usual. It is you trying to spin his statement, although I
> realize it just may be your poor reading comprehension.
>

js
I believe you supplied the word 'reality'....it was NOT
in the original statement...nor was it implied...

> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > and its presses claim
> > > > > insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic
> murders
> > > took
> > > > > place.
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > which is an opposing and antagonistic view point.
> > >
> > > Historical fact does not rest on viewpoints, which is why you never
> > > offer any substantial rebuttal to the known facts of that period.
> >
> >
> > js
> > It most certainly does!...it comes down to the fact of
> > which view point you believe....The conqueror writes the
> > history books....
>
> The conqueror doesn't write the facts. Facts and viewpoints are not the
> same. You wish to believe that because you think it provides some
> credibility to whatever assinine opinion you wish to offer. But you
> can't give me a single instance in history were your "conquerors"
> writing of history created the existence of a massive event that didn't
> really occur. You run from facts and offer delusions instead.
>

Evolution!!!
Seperation of church and state....
Pluarlism...
The Tet Offensive!!!

> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ...The jew
> > > > doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
> > > > he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....
> > >
> > > Ah, this must be some of the fact laden stuff you were talking
> about.
> > > Sounds like mindless Jew hating to me!
> >

js
See you can NOT deal with facts....let me post them
again....good buddy!

John 8:44; John 12:40; Mt 13:15; 1John 2:18-23; 4:3;
2John 7-11; John 5:23;

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The white racist movement
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
> > > > it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!
> > >
> > > No it doesn't.
> >
> > js
> > It has too!!!
>
> No it doesn't. The word would be "to" and I see your ability to
> construct a simple logic set is missing.
> >
> > >It's how they describe themselves.
> >
> > js
> > Of another race??....you are mumbling!
>
> The white racists, try to keep up.
>
> >
> >
> > > But only a racist
> > > would seek to read such a meaning in the sentence.
> > >
> > js
> > One can NOT be a racist among his own race...you are
> > attempting to redefine the word racist to fit your own
> > preconceived ideas!.....
> >
>
> Nonsense. One most certainly can.
>

js
HOW can that be possible WITHOUT changing
the definition of racist?....good biuddy! (this ought to be good!)

> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > knows that for most people the
> > > > > immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word
> 'Holocaust,'
> > > an
> > > > > association that hinders broad organizing.
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > Nothing but word association...use them often enough
> > > > together and in a couple of generations they will become
> > > > synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!
> > >
> > > Apt word association, which correctly describes National Socialism
> in
> > > action, and which Neo-Nazis seek to distort because it is properly
> > > anathema to decent peole.
> > >
> >
> > js
> > Nice spin....to bad it sucks!
>
> Nice empty response. And this time you should have used "too".
> >

js
That's correct....but it still sucks and you
know it...good buddy!

> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....
> > >
> > > Is that how it happened with you?
> >
> > js
> > No....it took emersion for the remission of sins (which
> > in my case requires more than an eye dropper )
> >
>
> I imagine.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > that the movement's                 fascination with the
> Holocaust
> > > is
> > > > > exactly that: fascination.  The most
> > > >
> > > >  > >
> > > > > important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it
> was a
> > > > > force so
> > > > > strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps you, but that is your pathology.
> > >
> >
> > js
> > I wonder if it is the 'pathology' of the mother
> > and father of this baby?
> >
> > http://www.hezbollah.org/terror.htm
>
> Ah, another Jew hating site! If you seek lies to fit your notions, you
> will find them, hater.
>

js
Has good reason to be...doesn't it??...See what
happens to people that are totally disarmed...

Of course your handlers have told you that it
would never happen in America...haven't they...good buddy!

> >
> > or is this your 'pathology'....
> >
> > "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
> > Rabbi Yaacov Perrin (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)
>
> Do you know anything of the context of that remark? Thought not.
>

js
Sure do! ....

And from now on don't spout context to me....ANYONE
that refuses to accept the exceptionally clear context...
of John 8:44; John 12:40; Mt 13:15; 1John 2:18-23; 4:3;
2John 7-11; John 5:23;....is totally inept in trying to
establish context in any other written material...In this
case it shows your hypocricy and your total disdain for
the word of God!

BTW:....when I find the article I'll email it!

> >
> > ....must be...you condone it by graveling at their feet!
>
> Graveling? You really don't have much to offer,do you?
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the
> > > Holocaust,
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > Here we go again....only whites are racists ....
> > >
> > > Having trouble with reading comprehension I see. Probably a result
> of
> > > having to look up every other word.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
> > > > their own addmission!....
> > > >
> > >
> > > When did they admit this? No wonder you have trouble interpreting
> the
> > > Bible.
> > >

js
Noticed you can't deal with TRUE facts....good buddy!
It is easy for you to sit there and run your mouth...
but when confronted with TRUE FACTS you run and hide...

hahahahahaha!....you are a Liar...good buddy!...and
a coward!

Want me to re-post the PROOF that jews admit they
aren't white?...

> >
> > js
> > Ever think that it might be YOUR problem....
>
> Heh, heh.
>
> >
> >
> > UHOO STUPID!....this is called assimilation...good
> > buddy!
>
> Irrelvant to your erroneous point.
>

You need to read it again....and pay close attention to
the last statement....the one that says....

"a relationship based not upon a common enemy, not upon
a common history, but instead upon a common purpose, the
purpose of teaching  America at long last what pluralism
is all about."

That is assimilation....GOOD BUDDY!

These Christ haters are NOT white and they don't want
any body else to be either!

Jews Are Not White,
Prof. Tells Rabbis

BOSTON - A political scientist at the Massachusetts Institute
of Technology, who has been speaking to Jewish conventions over
the past few months, told the Reform Rabbis meeting here that Jews
are not white.

Speaking as a Jewish academician, Prof. Leonard J. Fein
explained that "we are not white symbolicaly, and we are not
white literally." He then  added  we  should   "not  permit
ourselves to be lumped together with  white America,  for that
is not where we belong."

CONTINUING he explained that "We are too much an oppressed people,
still, and too much a rejected people even in this country to accept
the designation 'white.' And to count ourselves as white, moreover
is to deny our brotherhood with the Yemenites and the Kurdistains in
Israel, with the B'nei Yisrael from India and the Black Jews of New
York."

Employing a theme which he used in addressing other Jewish
conventions, Dr. Fein asserted that Jews are not black. "We
are Jews," he went on, "and  because we are Jews, and not
white, and not black, we must see to it, as a community,
that we do not come to act as whites, wheather by choice
or because others so identify us. Not only because it is
forbidden us, not only because we of all people ought to
know better, but because we shall cut ourselves off from
our own future if we do."

He then went on to relate this view to the Negro. "And
because we are Jews, it seems to me that we are entitled
to insist that there be a  special relationship between
us and Negoes; a relationship based not upon a  common
enemy, not upon a common history, but instead upon a
common purpose, the purpose of teaching America at long
last what pluralism is all about."

>
> > They jews are NOT for the races....they want ONE BIG race...
> > which again is totally opposite from what the Bible teaches!
>
> So what. You'd probably look better black.
>
js
God must not have thought so....good buddy!

> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > need to keep saying over and over again that it did not happen
> -- so
> > > > > that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about
> it, can
> > > > > keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that
> they
> > > are
> > > > > part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
> > > > >
> > > > > "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would bore
> them.
> > > > >
> > > > > "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just for
> a
> > > > > moment,
> > > > > that people like me are telling the truth:
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
> > > > the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
> > > > truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
> > > > militant knew John 8:44?
> > >
> > > You're lying or stupid. He's talking to people who profess
> disbelief,
> > > therefore he's asking them to suspend disbelief for the purposes of
> > > answering a question. By the way Jew hater, his ethnic background is
> > > irrelevant.
> > >
> > js
> > Disbelief in what?....the hohohoax!?
>
> Gee, you are slow.
>
> >
> > When one is telling the truth YOU DO NOT HAVE TO
> > PRETEND...good buddy! TRUTH will stand ANY investigation!
>
> You're not telling the truth. You're so ignorant of the facts you
> couldn't know if you were or not. Just more of your pathology.
>
js
I notice that YOU are the one that deletes the facts....good buddy!
Can't deal with the truth?....good buddy!....most liars can't and
you are no exception....good buddy!

> >
> > Why did this jew want to pretend that he was telling
> > the truth
>
> He wasn't. It's called a hypothetical,

js
UHOO STUPID....READ THIS!!!   I AGREE THAT IT IS HYPOTHETICAL!!

Now...you had better get your sophisticated dictionary out and
look up the meaning of 'hypothetical'...good buddy!

To help you out....here are a couple of related words for
you...doubtful - problematic....and a couple of synonyms...
conjectural - supposititious....UHOO STUPID fits you to a
tee..good buddy!....

> such as if I were to ask you to
> imagine your IQ exceeded double digits.
>

js
after reading the above I can honestly say my
supposed double digit IQ is eons above the single
digit category in which you would be placed...good buddy!

> >
> >
> > ....and when the word of God says someone is a liar
> > you had better be able to discern who the people are
> > that he is refering too...(John 8:44)...because in
> > 2John 11 God says if you condone their evil deeds you
> > become as one of them....
>
> Irrelevant.

js
You sure would like it to be...wouldn't
you good buddy!

> > > > that Hitler and his group
> > > > > DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way
> guilty of
> > > a
> > > > > crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one
> answered
> > > that
> > > > > it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were Jews,
> they
> > > > > would say, and had killed            twenty million Christians
> > > > > themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime anyway,
> > > and so
> > > > > on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been
> able to
> > > > > imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I
> think
> > > that
> > > > > they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are fairly
> > > glad;
> > > > > it reassures them."
> > > >
> > > > js
> > > > And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!
> > >
> > > Thinking is not something concerning which you demonstrate much
> ability.
> > >
> > > You must have attended school on some Iowa farm.
> >
> > js
> > I believe you made the following quote...
> >
> > > "his ethnic background is irrelevant."....
> >
> > Which makes you a LIAR and a hypocrite...good buddy! :)
>
> Non sequitur. You really are trying too hard.
>

js
Another lie...good buddy!

> >
> > You are living proof that....
> >
> > Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....
>
> Do you know what artificial intelligence is?

js
Nooooo....tell me all about it.

it's time to go fishing....

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:08:33 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/25/99 12:30:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jsavage@bluenet.net writes:

<< I will make the following suggestion....go to your
 "sophisticated" dictionary of choice....and if at all
 possible...learn the meaning of the word "If"....good buddy!

  >>
He and his type have a hard time deciding what the definition "is" is.
Example: Bill Clinton and the Jewish controlled media let on like he has done
nothing wrong.
Michael Snead
    14/ABB
       ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 11 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:14:42 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Often overlooked in this controversy is the crucial question: Just what
constitutes "Holocaust denial?" Should someone be considered a "Holocaust
denier" because he/she does not believe, as Matas and others insist, that six
million Jews were killed during World War II? This figure was cited by the
International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg in 1945- 1946. It found that
"the policy pursued {by the German Government} resulted in the killing of six
million Jews, of which four million were killed in the extermination
institutions." (Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International
Military Tribunal (IMT "blue series"), Vol. 22, p. 496)

    Yet if that is so, then several of the most prominent Holocaust
historians could be regarded as "deniers." Professor Rual Hilberg, author of
the standard reference work, "The Destruction of the European Jews," does not
accept that six million Jews died. He puts the total of deaths (by all
causes) at 5.1 million. Berald Reitlinger, author of "The Final Solution,"
likewise did not accept the six million figure. He estimated the figure of
Jewish wartime dead might be as high as 4.6 million, but admitted that this
was conjectural due to a lack of reliable information.

    HUMAN SOAP?: Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he/she says that the
Nazis didn't use Jewish fat to make soap? After weighing all the evidence
(including an actual bar of soap supplied by the Soviets), the Nuremberg
Tribunal declared in its Judgment that "in some instances attempts were made
to utilize the fat from the bodies of the victims in the commercial
manufacture of soap." (IMT "blue series," Vol. 22, p. 496) In 1990, though,
Israel's official "Yad Vashem" Holocaust memorial agency "rewrote history" by
admitting that the soap story was not true. "Historians have concluded that
soap was not made from human fat. When so many people deny the Holocaust ever
happened, why give them something to use against the truth?," said Yad Vashem
official Shmuel Krakowski. (Globe and Mail Toronto), April 25, 1990; See
also: M. Weber, "Jewish Soap," The Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1991)

    WANNSEE CONFERENCE?: Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he does not
accept that the January 1942 "Wannsee Conference" of German bureaucrats was
held to set or coordinate a program of systematic mass murder of Europe's
Jews? If so, Israeli Holocaust historian Yehuda Bauer must be wrong, and a
"Holocaust denier," because he recently declared: "The public still repeats,
time after time, the silly story that at Wannsee the extermination of the
Jews was arrived at." In Bauer's opinion, Wannsee was a meeting but "hardly a
conference" and "little of what was said there was executed in detail."
(Canadian Jewish News (Toronto), January 30, 1992)

    EXTERMINATION POLICY?: Is someone a "Holocaust denier" if he/she says
that there was no order by Hitler to exterminate Europe's Jews? There was a
time when the answer would have been Yes. Holocaust historian Raul Hilberg,
for example, wrote in the 1961 edition of his study, "The Destruction of the
European Jews," that there were two Hitler orders for the destruction of
Europe's Jews: the first given in the spring of 1941, and the second shortly
thereafter. But Hilberg removed mention of any such order from the revised
three-volume edition of his book published in 1985. (Barbara Kulaszka, ed.,
Did Six Million Really Die: Report of the Evidence in the Canadian "False
News" Trial of Ernst Zündel (Toronto: Samisdat, 1992), pp. 192, 300, 349)

    As Holocaust historian Christopher Browning has noted: "In the new
edition, all references in the text to a Hitler decision or Hitler order for
the 'Final Solution' have been systematically excised. Buried at the bottom
of a single footnote stand the solitary reference: 'Chronology and
circumstances point to a Hitler decision before the summer ended.' In the new
edition, decisions were not made and orders were not given." (The Revised
Hilberg, Simon Wiesenthal Annual, Vol. 3, 1986, p. 294)

    A lack of hard evidence for an extermination order by Hitler has
contributed to a controversy that divides Holocaust historians into
"intentionalists" and "functionalists." The former contend that there was a
premeditated extermination policy ordered by Hitler, while the latter hold
that Germany's wartime "final solution" Jewish policy evolved at lower levels
in response to circumstances. But the crucial point here is this:
notwithstanding the capture of literally tons of German documents after the
war, no one can point to documentary evidence of a wartime extermination
order, plan or program. This was admitted by Professor Hilberg during his
testimony in the 1985 trial in Toronto of German- Canadian publisher Ernist
Zündel. (B. Kulaszka, ed., Did Six Million Really Die (Toronto: 1992), pp.
24-25)

    AUSCHWITZ: So just what constitutes "Holocaust denial?" Surely a claim
that most Auschwitz inmates died from disease and not systematic
extermination in gas chambers would be "denial." But perhaps not. Jewish
historian Arno J. Mayer, a Princeton University professor, wrote in his 1988
study "Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?": The Final Solution in History:"
"...From 1942 to 1945, certainly an Auschwitz, but probably overall, more
Jews were killed by so-called 'natural' causes than by 'unnatural' ones." (A.
Mayer, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History
(Pantheon, 1988), p. 365)

    Even estimates of the number of people who died at Auschwitz, allegedly
the main extermination center, are no longer clear cut. At the postwar
Nuremberg Tribunal, the Allies charged that the Germans exterminated four
million people at Auschwitz. (Nuremberg document 008-USSR.; IMT "blue
series," Vol. 39, pp. 241, 261) Until 1990, a memorial plaque at Auschwitz
read: "Four Million People Suffered and Died Here at the Hands of the Nazi
Murderers Between the Years 1940 and 1945." (B. Kulaszka, ed., Did Six
Million Really Die (Toronto: 1992), p. 441)

    During a 1982 visit to the camp, Pope John Paul II (a Jewish Pope) stood
before this memorial and blessed the four million victims. Is it "Holocaust
denial" to dispute these four million deaths? Not today. In July 1990, the
Polish Government's Auschwitz State Museum, along with Israel's Yad Vashem
Holocaust center, conceded that the four million figure was a gross
exaggeration, and references to it were accordingly removed from the
Auschwitz monument. Israeli and Polish officials announced a tentative
revised toll of 1.1 million Auschwitz dead. (Y. Bauer, Fighting the
Distortions, Jerusalem Post (Israel), September 22, 1989; Auschwitz Deaths
Reduced to a Million, Daily Telegraph (London), July 17, 1990; Poland Reduces
Auschwitz Death Toll Estimate to 1 Million, The Washington Times, July 17,
1990) In 1993, French Holocaust researcher Jean-Claude Pressac, in a
much-discussed book about Auschwitz, estimated that altogether about 775,000
died there during the war years. (J.C. Pressac, Les Crémetoires d'Auschwitz:
La machinerie du meurtre (Paris: CNRS, 1993). See also: R. Faurisson,
Jean-Claude Pressac's New Auschwitz Book, The Journal of Historical Review,
Jan.-Feb. 1994, p. 24)

    Professor Mayer acknowledges that the question of how many really died in
Auschwitz remains open. In "Why did the Heavens Not Darken?" he wrote:
"...Many questions remain open...All in all, how many bodies were cremated in
Auschwitz? How many died there all told? What was the national, religious,
and ethnic breakdown in this commonwealth of victims? How many of them were
condemned to die a 'natura' death and how many were deliberately slaughtered?
And what was the proportion of Jews among those murdered in cold blood among
these gassed? We have simply no answers to these questions at this time."
(Why Did the Heavens Not Darken? p. 366)

    Having seen the success of the British propaganda about the Germans using
the skins of dead babies as lamp shades in World War I [which the British
later apologized for after the end of the war and admitted it was only
propaganda to get the troops to fight harder]. They conceived of the "SIX
MILLION JEW LIE" and spared no amount of expense to forward this program
[THEY EVEN EXECUTED SEVERAL THOUSAND OF THE SO-CALLED LESSER JEWS -- SO AS TO
FURTHER THEIR DIABOLICAL PLANS AFTER ALL WHAT WAS A FEW THOUSAND LESSER JEWS
COMPARED TO THE MASTER PLAN OF WORLD CONTROL!].

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 12 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:16:11 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    The Zionists who have always been very far sighted saw in it a chance to
accomplish two things:

    (a) To destroy Nationalism by claiming that the Germans killed "SIX
MILLION JEWS" in an effort at exterminating them, and the Germans were
extremely nationalistic, then it must follow, that Nationalism must be very
evil if millions of people can be murdered in its name! [In other words do
not be too Patriotic because if you do you will have Six Million or more Dead
Jews. And if you don't believe it they will show you another holocaust movie,
then another, then another until you do]. Do you see what I am saying?

    (b) Their claim to Palestine which came soon after the end of the War has
enabled them [the Jews] to replace God and the Lord Jesus Christ and become
the Chosen People: a triple counterfeit, to most of the Christian World!

    Thus it is clear for all to see if they will look with any honesty at all
America fought World War II so that World Jewry could dominate the Financial
Money Markets of the world; Expose any existing opposition to their designs
for world conquest and destroy such opposition; destroy Nationalism,
Patriotism, in the major countries of the world. Perhaps William Anderson in
his Afterword in a book "WAR WAR WAR!" by Cincinnatus describes it best:

    HOW THE JEWS FORCED AMERICA INTO    WORLD WAR II

    In the years before World War II, the American public had no desire to go
to war in either Europe or Asia. We, as Americans, had no interest in warring
with Germany, Italy or Japan. Yet America was forced to battle the Axis
Powers for four long years at the sole behest of International Jewry. In
fact, World Jewry commenced its war against Germany in 1933, the year Hitler
came to power, even before he had time to begin implementing a program for
pulling Germany out of its own economic depression.

    Jewry's declaration of a 'holy war' against Germany was issued by Samuel
Untermeyer of the World Jewish Federation, who said in the New York 'Times'
August 7, 1933, that it would be means of an 'economic boycott that will
undermine the Hitler regime and bring the German people to their senses by
destroying their export trade on which their very existence depends.'

    The Toronto 'Evening Telegram' February 26, 1940, quotes Rabbi Maurice
Perlzweig of the World Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that
'the World Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years'
[i.e. 1933]. Jews were obviously willing to back up their threats, for the
London 'Sunday Chronicle' of January 2, 1938, reported that 'leaders of
International Jewry' had met in Geneva, Switzerland to set up a $2.5 BILLION
fund to undermine the economic stability of Germany.

    However, Jewish boycotts against Germany failed to bring that nation to
its knees as [because] Hitler had already freed Germany from dependence on
Jewish usury. Since economic pressure by World Jewry could not break the back
of Germany, it was determined that an actual war would be necessary to
destroy Hitler [the German People for they had thrown off the control of the
International Banks]. This desire to decimate Germany is understandable when
one recognizes that Jews are a parasitic race and as parasites will fight to
the death when the host attempts to expel them.

    The Jewish desire for war was admitted by Rabbi Felix Mendelssohn in the
Chicago "Sentinel" of October 8, 1942, where he states: "The Second World War
is being fought for the Defense of the Fundamentals of Judaism."

    Thus, Rabbi Mendelssohn flatly expresses the view that WW II was a Jewish
War. This Jewish scheme came to fruitation in 1939, Germany invaded Poland.
Britain and France, under Jewish domination, then declared war on Germany,
conveniently ignoring the fact that the Soviet Union [Under Jewish Rule] also
invaded Poland.

    Think about it Damn it -- use your head -- if England and France declared
war on Germany just because they invaded Poland then why did they not also
declare war against Russia, as they also invaded Poland when Germany did?

    James Forestall, later to become Secretary of Defense in his diary of
December 27, 1945, notes that he played golf with Joseph Kennedy FDR's
Ambassador to Britain, who told him that ex-Prime Minister Neville
Chamberlain 'stated that America and the world Jews had forced England into
war.' For his candor and later opposition to the bandit state of Israel,
Forestall was murdered in 1949 [ruled a 'suicide']. Jews throughout the world
screamed that Germany was intent on ruling the world, but General George C.
Marshall admitted after the war, in testimony before Congress [it is recorded
in the Congressional Record], that No Proof could be found that Hitler
Planned any Conquest of the World.

    In fact, Hitler's actions against Czechoslovakia over the Sudentenland
and Poland over Danzig were just part of Hitler's long stated desire to
re-acquire the territory taken from Germany after WW I in the Treaty of
Versailles [is that not what the Jews claim to be doing in Palestine at the
present time?].

    While stones are being cast, it should be recalled that after Germany
took back the Sudentenland from Czechoslovakia, Poland seized the territory
of Treschen from the Czechs which it had no claims toward it. So, after the
Jews had ignited a war in Europe, it was found to be necessary to draw
America into that war as France had fallen and Britain tottered on the brink
of defeat.

    To bring the U.S. into this Jewish war, International Jewry had the
services of a master at corrupt politics -- the one and only Franklin Delano
Roosevelt [Who will without doubt, someday go down as the greatest traitor
America has ever known]. Interestingly enough, Col. Curtis Dall who was once
FDR's son-in-law accused Roosevelt of being partly Jewish. In any event,
Roosevelt was surrounded by plenty of Jew advisors such as Bernard Baruch,
S.I. Rosenman, Sidney Weinburg, Sidney Hillman and Felix Frankfurter.

    For the first time, Jewry had a President who was totally subservient to
them and they spared no effort to keep him in office. For example, when it
appeared that Senator Huey Long would defeat Roosevelt for the 1939
Democratic nomination, he was assassinated by Dr. Carl Weiss, a Jew.
Nevertheless, American public opinion was overwhelmingly opposed to any
involvement in WW II. Many Americans realized they had been duped into WW I
and were not interested in losing the lives of their loved ones in a war that
offered no benefits to the U.S.

    In effect, Americans were heeding the advice of George Washington in his
'Farewell Address' [that is why the current campaign to discredit our
founding fathers is being waged, so that we will disregard their God given
advice -- just as the Prostitute Clergy of Organized Religion of today are
bringing disgrace and shame upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ -- so that
the younger generations will disregard the teachings of the TRUE MEN OF GOD]
where he warned that Americans must not become involved in entangling
alliances with foreign nations.

    Those Patriots who followed Washington's sound advice were DISPARAGINGLY
REFERRED TO AS 'ISOLATIONISTS,' but they were, in actuality, neutralists.
Thus Congress, acting on the will of the people, passed the Neutrality Act of
1935 which embargoed any U.S. arms from being sent to a warring nation.

    About three years later, in 1938, Representative Louis Ludlow of Indiana
introduced a resolution requiring a public vote of support of any declaration
of war by Congress. Roosevelt and the Jews knew this measure could easily
destroy their efforts, so an all out attack on the resolution was launched.
As a result, the Ludlow bill was narrowly defeated. The Jews had good reason
to block the resolution for the American Institute for Public Opinion [AIPO]
released at that time a poll showing 83% of the citizens opposed to U.S.
intervention in an European war.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 13 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:18:23 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Moreover, in April 1939, during the height of war fever, a whopping 95%
opposed American entry into a war against Germany. That's right, virtually
every citizen was soundly against the U.S. involving itself in a foreign war
[but unfortunately this fact has been forgotten as a result of a deluge of
false propaganda by our controlled news media]. As a result, Congress
strengthened the Neutrality Act by barring commerce and travel, as well as
arms, to any belligerent power.

    At this point, the Jews began to show signs of desperation but these wily
manipulators of world events still had a few tricks up their collective
sleeve. So, in 1939 an immense propaganda campaign, the likes of which had
never before been seen, was launched. No stone was left unturned in Jewry's
assault on the minds of the American people. One was bombarded with the most
outlandish lies about Hitler and Germany from all sides -- in newspapers,
magazines, books, radio and motion pictures. FDR also unleashed the powerful,
persuasive techniques of the federal government in the blitz to 'hate
Germany.'

    To get an idea of just how far this propaganda attack went, one should
note that Jew Theodore Kaufman wrote a book entitled 'Germany Must Perish,'
which outlined a plan to exterminate Germans by sterilizing 48 million of
them. Believe it or not, this call for genocide by a Jew was well received in
many influential circles. Conversely, Germany never carried out a 'holocaust'
against the Jews, but after the war, was accused of doing so any way. This
'holocaust' hoax trumped up by Jewry has been used since WW II to divert
attention from their own machinations to plunge America into the maelstrom of
yet another war.

    The Jew orchestrated assault of hate against Germany was successful in
cowering Congress into lifting the arms embargo and allowed the free flow of
weapons to Britain and later to the Soviet Union. This action made U.S. ships
carrying the arms fair targets for German subs; BUT NO ATTACKS OCCURRED [but
American submarines were attacking German shipping in violation of the
Neutrality Act], which is certainly odd behavior for a 'madman' [Hitler] bent
on 'world rule.'

    While Congress succumbed to the barrage of hate propaganda, the public
remained totally against the war. For instance, in October 1940 about 83%
polled were opposed to U.S. involvement. In April 1941, it was 85% against
and in July 1941, opposition was pegged at a healthy 79%. Not surprisingly,
the pollsters quit asking the question at this point, as FDR and Jewry had
all but gotten war officially declared.

    By 1940, Roosevelt had rammed through Congress a draft and conscription
although polls indicated at least 50% of the public was against such a move.
By now it should be perfectly obvious that World Jewry had begun planning for
U.S. entry into the war AT LEAST THREE YEARS BEFORE PEARL HARBOR, despite
overwhelming opposition.

    Speaking of Peal Harbor, it is important to understand the complete facts
surrounding the 'surprise attack.' While 95% of all respondents were opposed
to war in 1939, about 90% indicated they were willing to fight if directly
attacked. Operating on this information, Jewry did everything possible to
goad either Germany or Italy into attacking America. However, the bait was
refused as Hitler was attempting at that time to negotiate a peace with
England, which was flatly rejected by the Jew lackey Churchill.

    Thus Jewry's attention turned toward Japan, which had a mutual defense
pact with Germany and Italy. Japan had been engaged in a war with China which
FDR and the Jews tried to use as an excuse for American intervention, even
though the events in Asia were of no concern to America. Jewish, not
American, interests however were what concerned Roosevelt and in July 1941,
he froze Japanese assets in the U.S. and embargoed trade. This was reason
enough to declare war, but Japan humbly proposed to sit down and negotiate
U.S.-Japanese differences. Instead of accepting the offer, FDR insulted
Japanese Ambassador Nomura and refused to meet with Prime Minister Konoye.

    As a result, Konoye and his 'peace party' were replaced by General Tojo
and his 'war party,' yet Japan continued to make peace overtures only to have
them all flatly rejected. Finally, on November 26, 1941, Roosevelt sent an
ultimatum to Japan which amounted to a virtual Declaration of War. This
ultimatum, according to Professor Harry Elmer Barnes, was actually drafted by
the Jew Harry Dexter White [Weiss] in collaboration with Jew Treasury
Secretary Harry Morgenthau. It was this ultimatum, penned by two Jews, that
forced Japan to attack or else 'lose face,' which to Oriental thinking is a
fate worse than death.

    The final, sorry episode of this disgusting chain of events is that
Washington knew of the impending attack on Pearl Harbor at least 12 hours
before the blow fell, but refused to warn military officers there [What other
name could this be known other than TREASON]. The U.S. had been forewarned
since the Japanese message code had been broken and America was thus able to
monitor Japanese dispatches. No word was sent to Pearl Harbor by FDR and the
Jews as the messages revealed that the attack should be called off if it
appeared that the Americans were prepared.

    So International Jewry by going through the 'back door' had successfully
ensnared America into WW II; a war that would cost millions of lives and
billions of dollars. The bottom line of the war would be a world under the
total subjugation of Jewry through its twin arms of Communism and Zionism.
These facts have been covered up and ignored in the mass media, Charles
Lindberg, for one, recognized where the finger of proof pointed. In his
'Wartime Journals,' he states that 'the Jews, the Roosevelt administration,
and British sympathizers combined to encourage the U.S. to enter World War
II.'

    Lindberg and other patriots sought to stop Jewry's war plans by setting
up the America First Committee. The committee found widespread support, but
could not overcome the billions spent by Jews to brainwash the public into
accepting war after Pearl Harbor. And it is Jewry which best recognized why
the U.S. entered WW II. 'The American Hebrew,' in an editorial of July 24,
1942, declared that; "WHENEVER AN AMERICAN OR A FILIPINO FELL AT BATAAN OR
CORRUGATOR OR AT ANY OTHER OF THE NOW HISTORIC SPOTS where MacArthur's men
put up their remarkable fight, THEIR SURVIVORS COULD HAVE SAID WITH TRUTH:
THE REAL REASON THAT BOY WENT TO HIS DEATH WAS BECAUSE HITLER'S ANTI-SEMITIC
MOVEMENT SUCCEEDED IN GERMANY. [can you not see it? World War II was because
Germany and its people were being successful in their attempts to throw off
the International Jewish Bankers Rule of their country -- God what does it
take for America to understand?]."

    The above quotation from a Jew newspaper is an admission that the U.S.
entered WW II only at the behest of World Jewry - a war Jewry declared all
the way back in 1933!!! Of course, this admission was intended only for
consumption by a Jewish audience to keep them in the know, which tends to
make it all the more revealing. Any American involvement in a foreign
conflict should be judged as to whether it is in the best interest of the
American nation; yet the U.S. entered WW II because it was in the best
interest of International Jewry. Thus, the Jews forced the U.S. into war
against the public's will in 1941 and the $64 million question is will it
happen again? Events are already pointing towards a build-up of war hysteria.
Without a doubt, Jewry is leading America by the nose towards war in the
Middle East on behalf of the bandit state of Israel. Will we learn from the
lesson of the past or will we once again find ourselves forced into war for
the benefit of World Jewry?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 14 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:23:18 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    THE BIGGEST LIE: The biggest lie in modern times has been told by the
controlled propaganda machine. It has to do with the number of Jews who died
during World War II. Jewish periodicals and periodicals controlled by them
usually set the figure between six million and nine million.

    A research student, who has given the matter much though, explodes this
lie with some very devastating logic and statistics. The following is a
summary of his research. "Tabu," or "taboo" implies that certain persons or
things are unsafe for casual contact and are not to be lightly approached,
and this definition of the ancient custom of many savage tribes made by the
Encyclopedia Britannica describes most exactly the attitude of practically
all American "media" toward the fantastic figure of the "Six Million Jewish
Victims" who, allegedly perished in Nazi concentration camps of Buchenwald,
Sachsenhousen, Auschwitz, etc.

    During the past years this "tool" was so much used, and abused, by the
World Jewry and its mouthpieces that it began to lose its cutting edge, and
many bitter complaints were voiced that the world had "swept those poor
'victims' under the rug" and does not want to remember them anymore. The
Eichmann Trial gave a splendid opportunity to brush off the dust from the
ghosts of those "victims," -- and the world press did it really with a
vengeance; every day one could read the screaming headlines about the killer
of those "Six Million Jews" and this sacramental figure was repeated "ad
Nauseam" in all possible combinations. Let us dare, however, to approach this
sacred "Taboo" without prejudice, fear and trepidation. Let us treat it
rather as a simple arithmetic problem using for our calculations only such
data which nobody who is of a sane mind can call as being "Anti-Semitic" in
origin.

    Returning back to the same Encyclopedia Britannica, we find there in Vol.
XIII, p. 63-B, [1953 Ed.] such an interesting, if somewhat ambiguous,
sentence about those "victims": "If but a fraction of the atrocities reported
were accurate, then many THOUSANDS of defenseless Jewish non-combatants, men,
women and children were butchered after September 1939."

    The authors of this article mention THOUSANDS and NOT MILLIONS of the
possible "victims," and put a cautious "IF" at the beginning of the sentence.
Had they some ground to put in doubt the veracity of those reports?
Apparently yes, and this can be proved by the following revealing
information: "Dr. Aaron Ohrenstein, Chief Rabbi of Bavaria, was sentenced to
one year in prison for FRAUD, falsification of SWORN statements of the
non-existent 'victims' of Nazi terrorism." (S.C. Sunday Post, July 11, 1954)

    We don't know, unfortunately, how many phony "dead souls" this honorable
doctor included in his report, and how many other doctors and common mortals
did follow in his steps but were not caught in the act. It is safe to guess,
however, that this Rabbi was not alone, because only by concentrated and
highly organized efforts of many willing collaborators could it be possible
to create and to sustain such an ABSURD MYTH. Just for the sake of comparison
it might be mentioned here that Japan which fought for many years was
mercilessly bombed and was the victim of the first two atomic blasts, lost in
dead during the past war was 3.1 million "ONLY." Right from the start of our
investigations we are confronted with such a puzzling problem: WHICH of the
figures of "victims" mentioned by the American press is the exact one: four
million? six million? nine million? or still more?

    Time Magazine once dared to publish the lowest figure of four million.

    The Los Angeles Mirror in an article of April 19, 1961 tells us as
follows: "The actual [?] count exceeds 6 million victims."

    Newsweek Magazine assured quite a few times its credulous readers that
the number of "victims" should be at least seven million.

    Rabbi Schultz of New York adds to the six million Jews killed by Nazis
3.4 million of the Soviet Jewry liquidated during the post-war purges thus
bringing the total to the staggering figure of 9.4 million "victims." The
generally admitted number, as every child in America knows, is SIX MILLION,
which is easy to remember and to repeat. But the so-called "official"
estimate released once by the joint Anglo-American Committee fixes with a
surprising accuracy the number of "victims" at exactly 5,721,000! Let us
admit for a moment that this is the correct answer to our question, and let
us see how the Jewish-owned statistics comply with it.

Total number of the World Jewish population
in 1938 as per information of the Jewish
statistical Bureau in the U.S.          15.7 million

Natural increase in two decades
information of, the Jewish World Congress    1.0 million
Total                   16.7 million

Less the "victims"           5.7 million
Should be now [May 1974]        11.0 million

    But in accordance with the data supplied by the same Congress there are:

Jews in the Soviet Union         2.0 million
Jews in the U.S.         5.2 million
Jews in other countries      4.6 million
Or a total of           11.8 million
    (Time, February 18, 1957)

    It is already 0.8 million MORE than it should be in accordance with the
first calculation. Consequently the World Jewish Congress itself tacitly
agrees that the number of "victims" cannot be even 5.7 million, but should be
about 4.9 million. Since it would be quite difficult for us to check up on
the number of Jews now residing all over the world outside the Soviet Union
and the U.S., let us admit the figure of 4.6 million as given by the Congress
is the correct one.

    But according to the last Soviet census of population the number of Jews
living there is slightly above 3 million, and NOT 2 million as claimed by the
Congress. (See the Soviet statistics published by the Jewish-edited newspaper
New Russian World of N.Y.C., September 30, 1960) Subtracting this "lost"
million of Jews "found" now in the USSR from the above number of "victims" we
shall get our second "corrected" figure: 4.9 million, minus 1 million, equals
3.9 million.

    But if the said Congress could "adjust" the Soviet Jewish population by
one third, should we admit without questioning the suspiciously low figure of
5.2 million Jews now, allegedly, residing in the United States?

    According to the figures released once by the American Jewish Committee
the Jewish population of the U.S. was in 1917 3.27% of the total; in 1927
3.58%; and in 1937 3.69%. Everybody knows that besides the normal natural
increase there was during the last two decades a tremendous influx of Jewish
immigrants, both legal and illegal, to the hospitable American shores.

    But, surprisingly enough, the relative proportion of Jews to other
populations of the U.S. registered a sharp DROP and is now, if we have to
believe the Congress estimate, only 2.9% of the total. [5.2 million of 180
million]. HOW could such a "miracle" happen?!! Would it not be more logical
to suppose that this ever-increasing in the past years percentage should be
now somewhere between 4.5%-5%, [i.e. 8-9 million of Jewish population], but
by no possible means could it drop BELOW the 1937 level?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 15 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:24:52 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Let us approach the same question from another angle. Time, (October 31,
1960), quoting the Yearbook of American Churches for 1960, reported that
there are 5.5 million of "practicing" Jews in the States. Or, in other words,
since the TOTAL officially admitted number of Jews is only 5.2 million in
America, MORE THAN A HUNDRED PERCENT of the Jews are registered with their
religious communities?! HOW could such a second "miracle" happen?

    That not all the Jews residing in the States are the "practicing" ones
proves the footnote in the same Time Magazine of February 11, 1957 where it
is stated that only 10.6% of the New York City population profess Jewish
Faith, although the TOTAL percentage of Jewry in that City is about 28%. So,
admittedly, more than ONE HALF of the N.Y.C. Jews are religiously indifferent
and are not registered with their synagogues. According to the statistics,
out of 100 Americans 62 belong to one or another church group.

    Assuming that other Jews residing in the States are more religious than
their New York confreres, we shall apply that average rule to the whole
American Jewish community. Then, if there are 5.5 million of "practicing"
Jews [62%], there should be besides a balance of about 3.3 million [38%] of
those who are not "practicing." Adding those two figures together we get 8.8
million which should be, approximately, the actual number of Jews now
residing in the States.

    This figure, being about 4.9% of the total American population, is in
accord with our first calculation based on the percentage. It is, without any
doubt, far more plausible than the ridiculously low figure of 5.2 million as
given by the Congress.

    This excess of the Jewish population in the States, [8.8 million, minus
5.2 million, equals 3.6 million], gives us the full right to cut down
drastically the number of the "victims" for the third, and last, time
because, as it is quite obvious from the above calculations, the number of
the American Jews was also "adjusted" by more than one third. Otherwise it
would be simply impossible to sustain for so many years the myth of the
MILLIONS of Jewish "victims."

    And thus, finally, we get: 3.9 million, minus 3.6 million "found" in the
States equals: 0.3 million -- which is the ACTUAL APPROXIMATE NUMBER OF JEWS
WHO "PROBABLY" PERISHED IN EUROPE DURING THE LAST WAR. It might happen, of
course, that we are here a few tens of thousands "victims" off the mark, but,
in all probability, the figure cannot exceed 0.4 million and should be
between 200 and 400 thousand.

    Consequently the world Jewish population at present should be such:

In the Soviet Union      3.0 million
In the U.S.          8.8 million
In other countries       4.6 million
TOTAL       16.4 million

    As an additional, if indirect, proof of the massive forgery of the number
of "victims" let us quote here a few revealing passages taken from the pages
of the American press:

    Reuter, (Sept. 13, 1958), reported that in the famous Buchenwald camp
where, allegedly, MILLIONS of Jews alone perished, a memorial was dedicated
to the 56,000 prisoners of ALL NATIONALITIES who died there during the war.
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR MILLIONS OF JEWS TO HAVE DIED THERE WHEN ONLY 56,000
OF ALL NATIONALITIES -- WHICH WOULD HAVE INCLUDED THE JEWS WHO SAID TO HAVE
DIED THERE???

    Newsweek, (Oct. 27, 1958), said that a certain Sorge Schubert, who was in
charge of the Sachsenhousen camp, WAS ACCUSED OF MURDERING 198 JEWS and
10,000 Russians. ISN'T IT AMAZING THE JEWS CLAIM MILLIONS DIED AT
SACHEN-HOUSEN BUT NEWSWEEK REPORTS THAT ONLY 198 JEWS DIED THERE.

    Time, (March 23, 1959), stated; "Erich Koch, (Gauleiter of
Ukraine)...stood accused of responsibility or complicity in gas-chamber and
concentration camp death of 4,000,000 Russians, 160,000 Jews and 72,000
Poles."

    The director of Auschwitz has been filmed on video-tape ADMITTING THAT
THE SO-CALLED GAS CHAMBER, THERE, WAS CONSTRUCTED AFTER THE WAR. In a
dramatic and unprecedented filmed interview, Dr. Franciszek Piper, senior
curator and director of archives at the Auschwitz State Museum; admits on
camera that "Krema I," the alleged "homicidal gas chamber" shown off to
hundreds of thousands of tourists every year at the Auschwitz main camp, is,
in fact, a reconstruction, FABRICATED AFTER THE WAR BY THE SOVIET UNION -
apparently on the direct orders of dictator Joseph Stalin. What Piper said,
in effect - and on camera - was that the explosive Leucher Report was
correct: NO HOMICIDAL GASSINGS TOOK PLACE IN THE BUILDINGS DESIGNATED
'HOMICIDAL GAS CHAMBERS' AT AUSCHWITZ!

    Ironically, for someone to even suggest such a thing could bring a jail
sentence in more than one country, including enlightened nations like France,
Canada and German. {Just ask British historian David Irving}. The videotape
on which Piper makes his revelations was taken in mid-1992 BY A YOUNG JEWISH
INVESTIGATOR, DAVID COLE. It has just been released, on January 1, 1993,
although Cole announced his project at the 11th International Revisionist
Conference at Irvine, California last October.

    Like most Americans, since his youth Cole had been instructed in the
"irrefutable fact" that homicidal gassings had taken place at Auschwitz. The
number of those so executed - also declared irrefutable - was 4.1 million.
Then came the Leuchter Report in 1988. This was followed by a "re-evaluation"
of the total deaths at Auschwitz {down to 1.1 million}. As a budding
historian, and a Jew, Cole was intrigued.

    Previous to 1992, anyone who publicly doubted the 4.1 million "gassing"
deaths at Auschwitz was labeled an anti-Semite, neo-nazi skinhead {at the
very least}. Quietly, because of revisionist findings, the official figure
has lowered to 1.1 million. No mention of that missing 3 million.

    In the words of Dr. Wilhelm Staglich, another internationally known
historian, "THE EXTERMINATION THESIS STANDS OR FALLS WITH THE ALLEGATION THAT
AUSCHWITZ WAS A 'DEATH FACTORY.'"

    With the Leuchter Report in mind, Cole took his video equipment to
Auschwitz and interviewed official personnel there. Piper was the most
important of these interviewees. Following his comment that the "homicidal
gas chambers" were fabrications, Piper reveals, on camera, how walls were
knocked down, holes made in the ceiling and "Zyklon B induction chimneys"
installed on the roof so that the building could be exhibited to tourists
from all over the world as proof of the "final solution."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 16 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:26:20 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    And Piper doesn't stop there. He describes other "proofs" of the "final=
 solution," which are also "reconstructions." He discusses the routine use=
 of Zyklon B to delouse buildings and the personal effects of internees, and=
 he admits, on camera, that the Leuchter Report's findings concerning Zyklon=
 B residues in the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz are right. He then,=
 paradoxically, affirms his belief, not only in homicidal "gassing=
 chambers," but also in the "human soap" tales and the stories about "human=
 skin" lampshades, both of which allegations which long ago have been=
 totally debunked. And the revelations go on.=20

    In the video, you tour Auschwitz with Cole and hear him being told that
the=
 main camp "gas chamber" {Krema I} is in its "original state." You will see=
 the undaunted Cole ask so many questions about the obviously ridiculous=
 nature of this "gas chamber" that the guide feels it necessary to call her=
 supervisor over to answer the young historian.

    The Cole videotape proves that the people who run the Auschwitz State=
 Museum had made a practice of fabricating "proofs" of homicidal gassings.=
 Keep in mind that over the years, millions of tourists have been told that=
 Krema I is in its original state, while the officials knew that this=
 "original state" was/is a lie. The political, religious, financial and=
 historical ramifications of this proof of no gas chambers at Auschwitz=
 cannot be measured. Coupled with the Leutcher Report, the Cole videotape=
 proves that what every Western Government has taught since World War II is=
 a lie. (The Spotlight, January 18, 1993, p. 21, by P. Samuel Foner)

    We believe, all that is stated above should be more than sufficient to=
 prove that the cautious approach of the Encyclopedia Britannica to the=
 number of Jewish "victims" was, indeed, quite understandable. We are also=
 inclined to agree with this usually reliable source of information that the=
 total number of those Jewish "victims" should be expressed in THOUSANDS and=
 NOT IN MILLIONS which are the result of the most shameless and arrogant=
 Jewish propaganda machine which increased the actual number of Jews who=
 perished during the last war at least FIFTEEN-FOLD! (This article was=
 written when all American press supported the Jewish myth that there are=
 only 5.2 million Jews residing in the States; finally on Jan. 13, 1964, the=
 Jewish-owned Newsweek Magazine in its article "Only WASHS?" admitted the=
 actual number of American Jews in the following sentences: 'By contrast,=
 Jews make up about 5 percent of the population [in the States] and more=
 than 8 percent of all college graduates.' Which is EXACTLY the SAME=
 percentage which we calculated above)

    This is but one of three problems which have plagued the propagandists
who=
 want to claim that Hitler exterminated the Jews of Central Europe, "Six=
 Million" of them: The second is that despite snooping all over Europe and=
 elsewhere they have not found any Third Reich order to exterminate the=
 Jews; the third is that the "Six Million" exterminated Jews nowhere left=
 any skeletons, not even any ashes.=20

    Even if the six million had been cremated they would have piled up a=
 mountain of 60,000 metric tons [2240 lbs. per metric ton] of ashes. When=
 the Soviet-Bolshevik-Jewish-Russians murdered the Polish POW's at Katyn, a=
 few years later the corpses of 4,200 were found with a bullet in their=
 necks. But of the six million allegedly "gassed Jews" NO REMAINS, NO=
 GRAVES, NO BONES, NO ASHES, NO FRAGMENTS OF ANY KIND HAVE BEEN FOUND!!!

    WHERE THE JEWS OF CENTRAL EUROPE WENT: But what has been found is
hundreds=
 of thousands of Jews in countries where they had not been in 1939. On June=
 11, 1973, the International Tribune, a Jewish-controlled paper, boasted=
 that; "About 500,000 of Israel's 2.6 million Jews had been in a Nazi=
 concentration camp."

    Obviously if there had been a Hitler order to exterminate the Jews their=
 bones [or their ashes] would be in Central Europe. Some other examples: in=
 1939, France had 200,000 Jews, but now it has 900,000; Great Britain then=
 300,000, now 600,000 Canada then less than 150,000, now 400,000; Argentina=
 then 200,000, now 800,000.

    In the U.S. where there were perhaps five million, there are now,
according=
 to what Ben Gurion, while he was alive, estimated, from nine to twelve=
 million, so many in fact that the Census Bureau has been forbidden to count=
 them, as the sheer numbers of them would be embarrassing for the Jews, and=
 would completely destroy the "Six Million" MYTH!

    The fact is Jewish casualties during the war can only be compiled by=
 equating the Jews in the various countries of the world now [or in 1950]=
 with those in 1933-1939. Instead propagandists subtract the Jews in Central=
 Europe after the war from those there before and call the difference=
 "massacred."=20

    Even reputable historians, as for example John Gunther, fall into this=
 elementary fallacy: of dishonesty. He wrote: "Of the 3,500,000 Polish Jews=
 who lived in that country before the war, not less than three million were=
 murdered by the Germans. The total number of Jews surviving in Poland is=
 only between 70,000 and 80,000." (Philadelphia Inquirer, February 10, 1949)

    The millions of Jews who retreated into Soviet-Russia and who fled into=
 other countries Gunther simply  writes off as "massacred." In 1930 there=
 were 2,488,000 Germans in East Prussia.=20

    When by 1946 the Soviet-Russians and Poles got finished raping and
looting=
 and terrorizing, only a few thousand East Prussians were left there. Do the=
 likes of Gunther conclude that the Russians and Poles "massacred" the other=
 two plus million East Prussians??? They do not. Even though in fact over=
 200,000 were murdered by the expulsionist Poles and Russians, they blithely=
 pass over these and assume all the 2,488,000 are safe in Germany!

    WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GERMANS OF EAST PRUSSIA, SILESIA, SUDETENLAND?: The=
 propagandists, who call every Jew no longer in Central Europe=
 "exterminated," do not call the 4,558,041 Germans no longer in Silesia=
 after the Poles terrorized them in 1945-1946 murdered, though twenty=
 percent of them were; they smugly call them "transferred" to Germany; so=
 with the 1,895,015 Pomeranians, the 407,500 Danzigers; and the 3,912,849=
 Germans of the Sudetenland, of whom 210,000 were clubbed and raped to=
 death, and only 100,000 remain in the Sudetenland! But when the 600,000=
 Jews in Germany in 1933, only some 30,000 were found there in 1945, the=
 propagandist scream that the other 570,000 had been exterminated! When in=
 fact, they were in most cases all the while collecting indemnities from the=
 West German people, safely in New York, Israel and Argentina!

    For more than thirty years hordes of official and official snoopers have=
 sniffed at every document of the Third Reich, and they have cross-examined=
 and threatened and blackmailed every possible German in the search for some=
 document or order in which Hitler ordered the extermination of Jews. And=
 the more they scratched around the more they came up with the opposite. At=
 least three historians in the last few years may be thought to have=
 unwittingly frustrated the last hope of finding any Third Reich order to=
 exterminate the Jews.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 17 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:27:42 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    HISTORIANS FIND NO THIRD REICH ORDER FOR "EXTERMINATING" THE JEWS: Dr.
John=
 Lukacs, writes; "No document, no written or even spoken evidence connects=
 Hitler directly to the Wannsee decision." (The Last European War (1976), p.=
 165)

    Nor does he anywhere else cite any such document. And in fact the Wannsee=
 Conference, held January 20, 1942, itself does not at all contemplate=
 extermination, but the deployment of "the Jews capable of work," like=
 road-building, in the East, but "It is not intended to evacuate Jews over=
 65 years of age" nor "Jews who are serious war-wounded cases and Jews with=
 war decorations" [presumably from World War I]. (Quoted from Dr. A.R. Butz,=
 The Hoax, p. 211-212)

    As for the block-busting Hoax of the Twentieth Century, so the Los
Angeles=
 Herald, June 11, 1977, reports, it "presents the massacre of six million=
 Jews...(as) a myth perpetrated by Jews to elicit sympathy" for a Palestine=
 homeland. The latest to frustrate all hope of finding a document=
 authorizing the massacre of Jews is Professor David Irving's Hitler's War=
 (Viking Press, N.Y. 1977, 926 pates).

    Irving writes categorically: "...the incontrovertible evidence is that=
 Hitler ordered on November 30, 1941, that there was to be 'NO LIQUIDATION'=
 of the Jews" (Hitler's War, David Irving, p. xiv)

    And, in October, 1943; "Hitler was still forbidding liquidations..."=
 (Hitler's War, David Irving, p. xiv)

    GAS CHAMBERS: What about denying the existence of extermination "gas=
 chambers?" Here too, Mayer makes a startling statement: "Sources for the=
 study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." (Why Did the=
 Heavens Not Darken? p. 362)

    While Mayer believes that such chambers did exist at Auschwitz, he point=
 out that: "...most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi=
 officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors=
 and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be=
 influenced by subjective factors of great complexity."=20

    H=D6ESS TESTIMONY: One example of this might be the testimony of Rudolf=
 H=F6ess, an SS officer who served as commandant of Auschwitz. In its=
 Judgment, the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal quoted at length=
 from his testimony to support its findings of extermination. (IMT "blue=
 series," Vol. 22, p. 485; Nuremberg document 3868-PS(USA-819), in IMT "blue=
 series," Vol. 33, pp. 275-279)

    It is now well established that H=F6ess' crucial testimony, as well as
his=
 so-called "confession" (which was also cited by the Nuremberg Tribunal),=
 are not only false, but were obtained by beating the former commandant=
 nearly to death. (Rupert Butler, Legions of Death (England, 1983), pp.=
 235-237; C. Hitchens, Whose History is it?, Vanity Fair (New York),=
 December 1993, p. 117) H=F6ess's wife and children were also threatened=
 with death and deportation to Siberia. In his statement, which would not be=
 admissible today in any United States court of law, H=F6ess claimed the=
 existence of an extermination camp called "Wolzek." In fact, no such camp=
 ever existed. He further claimed that during the time that he was=
 commandant of Auschwitz, two and a half million people were exterminated=
 there, and that a further half million died of disease. (R. Faurisson, How=
 the British Obtained the Confession of Rudolf H=F6ss, The Journal of=
 Historical Review, Winter 1986-87, pp. 389-403) Today no reputable=
 historian upholds these figures. H=F6ess was obviously willing to say=
 anything, sign anything and do anything to stop the torture, and to try to=
 save himself and his family.

    FORENSIC INVESTIGATIONS: In his 1988 book, Professor Mayer calls for=
 "excavations at the killing sites and in their immediate environs" to=
 determine more about the gas chambers. In fact, such forensic studies have=
 been made. The first was conducted in 1988 by American execution equipment=
 consultant, Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. He carried out an on-site forensic=
 examination of the alleged gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek=
 to determine if they could have been used to kill people as claimed. After=
 a careful study of the alleged killing facilities, Leuchter concluded that=
 the sites were not used, and could not have been used, as homicidal gas=
 chambers.=20

    Furthermore, an analysis of samples taken by Leuchter from the walls and=
 floors of the alleged gas chambers showed either no or minuscule traces of=
 cyanide compound, from the active ingredient of Zyklon B, the pesticide=
 allegedly used to murder Jews at Auschwitz. (A deluxe edition of The=
 Leuchter Report is available from the Institute For Historical Review, P.O.=
 Box 2739, Newport Beach, California 92659, for $20.00, plus $2.00 shipping)=
=20

    A confidential forensic examination (and subsequent report) commissioned
by=
 the Auschwitz State Museum and conducted by Institute of Forensic Research=
 in Krakow has confirmed Leuchter's finding that minimal or no traces of=
 cyanide compound can be found in the sites alleged to have been gas=
 chambers. (The complete text of this report was published in English in The=
 Journal of Historical Review, Summer 1991)=20

    The significance of this is evident when the results of the forensic=
 examination of the alleged homicidal gas chambers are compared with the=
 results of the examination of the Auschwitz disinfestation facilities,=
 where Zyklon B was used to delouse mattresses and clothing. Whereas no or=
 only trace amounts of cyanide were found in the alleged homicidal gas=
 chambers, massive traces of cyanide were found in the walls and floor in=
 the camp's disinfestation delousing chambers.

    Another forensic study has been carried out by German chemist Germar=
 Rudolf. On the basis of his on-site examination and analysis of samples,=
 the certified chemist and doctoral candidate concluded: "For=
 chemical-technical reasons, the claimed mass gassings with hydrocyanic acid=
 in the alleged 'gas chambers' in Auschwitz did not take place...The=
 supposed facilities for mass killing in Auschwitz and Birkenau were not=
 suitable for this purpose..." (G. Rudolf, Gutachten =FCber die Bldung und=
 Nachweisbarkeit von Cyanidverbindungen in den "Gaskammern" von Auschwitz=
 (London: 1993). See: The Journal of Historical Reivew, Nov.- Dec. 1993, pp.=
 25-26)

    Finally, there is the study of Austrian engineer Walter L=FCftl, a=
 respected expert witness in numerous court cases, and former president of=
 Austria's professional association of engineers. In a 1992 report he called=
 the alleged mass extermination of Jews in gas chambers "technically=
 impossible." (The 'L=FCftl Report', The Journal of Historical Review,=
 Winter 1992-93)

    DISCREDITED PERSPECTIVE: So just what constitutes "Holocaust denial?"
Those=
 who advocate criminal persecution of "Holocaust deniers" seem to be still=
 living in the world of 1946 where the Allied officials of the Nuremberg=
 Tribunal have just pronounced their verdict. But the Tribunal's findings=
 can no longer be assumed to be valid. Because it relied so heavily on such=
 untrustworthy evidence as the H=F6ess testimony, some of its most critical=
 findings are now discredited.

    Therefore, we can clearly see why so many scholars continue to challenge=
 the Holocaust story. Such scholars as Dr. Arthur Butz of Northwestern=
 University, Professor Robert Faurisson of the University of Lyon in France=
 and best-selling British historian David Irving, have been vigorously=
 challenging the widely-accepted extermination story.

    They do not dispute the fact that large numbers of Jews were deported to=
 concentration camps and ghettos, or that many Jews died or were killed=
 during the Second World War. Revisionist scholars have, however, presented=
 considerable evidence to show that there was no German program to=
 exterminate Europe's Jews and that the estimate of six million Jewish=
 wartime dead is an irresponsible exaggeration.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 18 by Willie Martin
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:29:15 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    As presented above, the revisionists point out that the Holocaust story
has=
 changed quite a lot over the years. Many extermination claims that were=
 once widely accepted have been quietly dropped in recent years. In early=
 1995, CNN quietly reported, during one of the many Jewish propaganda=
 campaigns, stated that only one million Jews died in Auschwitz, Birkenau=
 and Majdanek, thinking no one would notice the change in numbers, and most=
 Americans did not.=20

    At one time it was alleged that the Germans gassed Jews at Dachau,=
 Buchenwald and other concentration camps in Germany proper. But that part=
 of the extermination story proved so untenable that it was abandoned more=
 than twenty years ago. No serious historian now supports the once=
 supposedly proven story of "extermination camps" in the territory of the=
 old German Reich. Even famed "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal was forced to=
 acknowledge in 1975 that "THERE WERE NO EXTERMINATION CAMPS ON GERMAN=
 SOIL." (Books & Bookmen, London, April 1975, p. 5)

    In addition, more and more striking evidence has been presented in recent=
 years which simply cannot be reconciled with the allegations of mass=
 exterminations at these camps. For example, detailed aerial reconnaissance=
 photographs taken of Auschwitz-Birkenau on several random days in 1944=
 (during the height of the alleged extermination period there) were made=
 public by the CIA in 1979. They show no trace of the piles of corpses,=
 smoking chimneys and masses of Jews awaiting death, all of which have been=
 alleged and would have been clearly visible if Auschwitz had indeed been an=
 extermination center.

    At one time it was also seriously claimed that the Germans exterminated=
 Jews with electricity and steam, and that they manufactured soap from=
 Jewish corpses. For example, at Nuremberg the United States charged that=
 the Germans killed Jews at Treblinka, not in gas chambers, as is now=
 claimed, but by steaming them to death in "steam chambers." (Nuremberg=
 document PS-3311 (USA-293). IMT "blue series," Vol. 32. pp. 153-158; Imt.=
 Vol. 3. pp. 566-568; NMT "green series," Vol. 5, pp. 1133-1134) These=
 bizarre stories have also been quietly abandoned in recent years.

    DISEASE CLAIMED MANY INMATES: The Holocaust extermination story is=
 superficially plausible. Everyone has seen the horrific photos of dead and=
 dying inmates taken at Bergen-Belsen, Nordhausen and other concentration=
 camps when they were liberated by British and American forces in the final=
 weeks of the war in Europe. These people were unfortunate victims, not of=
 an extermination program, but of disease and malnutrition brought on by the=
 complete collapse of Germany in the final months of the war. Indeed, if=
 there had been an extermination program, the Jews found by Allied forces at=
 the end of the war would have long since been killed.

    In the face of advancing Soviet forces, large numbers of Jews were=
 evacuated during the final months of the war from eastern camps and ghettos=
 to the remaining camps in western Germany. These camps quickly became=
 terribly overcrowded, which severely hampered efforts to prevent the spread=
 of epidemics. Furthermore, the breakdown of the German transportation=
 system, as a result of the carpet bombing of the allied forces made it=
 impossible to supply adequate food and medicine to the camps.

    CAPTURED GERMAN DOCUMENTS: At the end of the Second World War, the Allies=
 confiscated a tremendous quantity of German documents dealing with=
 Germany's wartime Jewish policy, which was sometimes officially referred to=
 as the "final solution." But not a single German document has ever been=
 found which even refers to an extermination program. To the contrary, the=
 documents clearly show that the German "final solution" policy was one of=
 EMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION, not extermination.

    Consider, for example, the confidential German Foreign Office memorandum
of=
 August 21, 1942 (Nuremberg document NG-2586-J. NMT "green series," Vol. 13,=
 pp. 243-249)   "The present war gives Germany the opportunity and also the=
 duty of solving the Jewish problem in Europe," the memorandum notes. The=
 policy "to promote the EVACUATION OF THE JEWS (from Europe) in closest=
 cooperation with the agencies of the Reichsf=FChrer SS {Himmler} is still=
 in force."  The memo noted that "the number of Jews deported in this way to=
 the East did not suffice to cover the labor needs."=20

    The document quotes German Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop as saying
that,=
 "at the end of this war, all Jews would have to leave Europe. This was an=
 unalterable decision of the F=FChrer {Hitler} and also the only way to=
 master this problem, as only a global and comprehensive solution could be=
 applied and individual measures would not help very much."

    The memorandum concludes by stating that the, "deportations {of Jews to
the=
 East} are a further step on the way of the total solution...The deportation=
 to the {Polish} General Government is a temporary measure. The Jews will be=
 moved on further to the occupied {Soviet} eastern territories as soon as=
 the technical conditions for it are given." =20

    This unambiguous document, and others like it, are routinely suppressed
or=
 ignored by those who uphold the Holocaust extermination story.

    UNRELIABLE TESTIMONY: Holocaust historians rely heavily on so-called=
 "survivor testimony" to support the extermination story. But such=
 "evidence" is notoriously unreliable. As one Jewish historian has pointed=
 out, "most of the memoirs and reports {of Holocaust survivors} are full of=
 preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects,=
 overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism,=
 unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks and apologies." (Samuel Gringauz=
 in Jewish Social Studies (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12. p. 65)

    HITLER AND THE "FINAL SOLUTION": There is no documentary evidence that=
 Adolf Hitler ever gave an order to exterminate the Jews, or that he knew of=
 any extermination program. Instead, the record shows that the German leader=
 wanted the Jews to leave Europe, by emigration if possible and by=
 deportation if necessary.

    A document found after the war in the files of the Reich Ministry of=
 Justice records his thinking on the Jews. In the spring of 1942, State=
 Secretary Franz Schlegelberger noted in a memorandum that Hitler's Chief of=
 Chancellery, Dr. Hans Lammers, had informed him: "The F=FChrer has=
 repeatedly declared to him {Lammers} that he wants to see the solution of=
 the Jewish problem postponed until after the war is over." (Nuremberg=
 document PS-4025. David Irving, Goering: A Biography (New York: 1989), p.=
 349)

    And on July 24, 1942, Hitler emphasized his determination to remove all=
 Jews from Europe AFTER the war: "The Jews are interested in Europe for=
 economic reasons, but Europe must reject them, if only out of=
 self-interest, because the Jews are racially tougher. After this war is=
 over, I will rigorously hold to the view...that the Jews WILL HAVE TO LEAVE=
 AND EMIGRATE to Madagascar or some other Jewish national state." (H.=
 Picker, Hitlers Tischgespr=E4che in F=FChrerhauptquartier (Stuttgart:=
 1976), p. 456)

    HIMMLER'S SS AND THE CAMPS: Jews were an important part of Germany's=
 wartime labor force, and it was in Germany's interest to keep them alive.=
 The head of the SS camp administration office sent a directive dated=
 December 28, 1942, to every concentration camp, including Auschwitz. It=
 sharply criticized the high death rate of inmates due to disease, and=
 ordered that "camp physicians must use all means at their disposal to=
 significantly reduce the death rate in the various camps." Furthermore, it=
 ordered: "The camp commandants...The camp doctors are to see to it that the=
 working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as=
 possible."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 19 by Willie Martin (last one)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:30:57 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Finally, the directive stressed that, "The Reichsf=FChrer SS {Heinrich=
 Himmler} has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced."=
 (Nuremberg document PS-2171, Annex 2; NC&A "red series," Vol. 4, pp.=
 833-834)

    The head of the SS department that supervised the concentration camps,=
 Richard Gl=FCcks, sent a circular letter to each camp commandant dated=
 January 20, 1943. In it he ordered: "As I have already pointed out, every=
 means must be used to lower the death rate in the camp." (Nuremberg=
 document NO-1523; NMT "green series," Vol. 5, pp. 372- 373)

    ONE-SIDED "HOLOCAUSTOMANIA": Even after more than forty years, the stream=
 of Holocaust films and books shows no sign of diminishing. This relentless=
 media campaign, which Jewish historian Alfred Lilenthal calls=
 "Holocaustomania," portrays the fate of the Jews during the Second World=
 War as the central event of history. There is no end to the heavy-handed=
 motion pictures, the simplistic television specials, the vindictive hunt=
 for "Nazi war criminals," the one-sided "educational courses," and the=
 self-righteous appearances by politicians and celebrities at Holocaust=
 "memorial services."
=20
    Britain's chief rabbi, Immanuel Jakobovits, has accurately described the=
 Holocaust campaign as, "an entire industry, with handsome profits for=
 writers, researchers, film-makers, monument builders, museum planners and=
 even politicians." He added that some rabbis and theologians are "partners=
 in this big business." (H. Shapiro, Jakobovits, Jerusalem Post (Israel),=
 November 26, 1987, p. 1)

    Non-Jewish victims just don't merit the same concern. For example, there=
 are no American memorials, "study centers," or annual observances for=
 Stalin's victims, who vastly outnumber Hitler's.

    WHO BENEFITS?: The perpetual Holocaust media blitz is routinely used to=
 justify enormous American support for Israel and to excuse otherwise=
 inexcusable Israeli policies, even when they conflict with American=
 interests. The sophisticated and well-financed Holocaust media campaign is=
 crucially important to the interests of Israel, which owes its existence to=
 Massive annual subsidies from American taxpayers.

    As Professor W.D. Rubinstein of Australia has candidly acknowledged: "If=
 the Holocaust can be shown to be a 'Zionist myth,' the strongest of all=
 weapons in Israel's propaganda armory collapses." (Quadrant (Australia),=
 September, 1979, p. 27)

    Jewish history teacher Paula Hyman of Columbia University has observed:=
 "With regard to Israel, the Holocaust may be used to forestall political=
 criticism and suppress debate; it reinforces the sense of Jews as an=
 eternally beleaguered people who can rely for their defense only upon=
 themselves. The invocation of the suffering endured by the Jews under the=
 Nazis often takes the place of rational argument, and is expected to=
 convince doubters of the legitimacy of current Israeli government policy."=
 (New York Times Magazine, September 14, 1980, p. 79)

    One major reason that the Holocaust story has proven so durable is that
the=
 governments of the major powers also have a vested interest in maintaining=
 it. The victorious powers of the Second World War, the United States, the=
 Soviet Union and Britain, have a stake in portraying the defeated Hitler=
 regime as negatively as possible. The more evil and satanic the Hitler=
 regime appears, the more noble and justified seems the Allied cause. The=
 Soviet Union and the Jews also benefit, because the "Six Million" HoloHOAX=
 hides the millions of Christians murdered by the Jews after the Bolshevik=
 takeover of Russia in 1917.

    For many Jews, the Holocaust has become both a flourishing business and a=
 kind of new religion, as noted Jewish author and newspaper publisher Jacobo=
 Timerman points out in his book, "The Longest War." He reports that many=
 Israelis, using the word Shoah, which is Hebrew for Holocaust, joke that=
 "There's no business like Shoah business." (The Longest War (New York:=
 Vintage, 1982), p. 15) The Holocaust media campaign portrays Jews as=
 totally innocent victims, and non-Jews as morally retarded and unreliable=
 beings who can easily turn into murderous Nazis under the right=
 circumstances. This self-serving but distorted portrayal greatly=
 strengthens Jewish group solidarity and self-awareness.

    A key lesson of the Holocaust story for Jews is that non-Jews are never=
 completely trustworthy. If a people as cultured and as educated as the=
 Germans could turn against the Jews, so the thinking goes, that surely no=
 non-Jewish nation can ever be completely trusted. The holocaust message is=
 thus one of contempt for humanity.

    HOLOCAUST HATEMONGERING: The Holocaust story is sometimes used to promote=
 hatred and hostility, particularly against the German people as a whole,=
 eastern Europeans and the leadership of the Roman Catholic church.

    The well-known Jewish writer, Elie Wiesel, is a former Auschwitz inmate
who=
 served as chairman of the official U.S. Holocaust Memorial Council. He=
 received the 1986 Nobel Peace Prize. This dedicated Zionist wrote in his=
 book, "Legends of Our Time": "Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set=
 apart a zone of hate-healthy, virile hate-for what the German personifies=
 and for what persists in the German." (Legends of Our Time (New York:=
 Schocken Books, 1982), chap. 12. p. 142)

    If a non-Jew were to write such a thing about the Jews, one would be able=
 to hear them scream from the earth to the furtherest reaches of the=
 universe, and their propaganda arm, the mass media in America would fill=
 the world with hundreds of thousands of pages of anti-Semitic hate=
 mongering.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 02:34:45 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/23/99 11:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jsavage@bluenet.net writes:

<< Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
 we should never underestimate the power of very
 stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....
  >>
I am reading.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Ref: Another eGroups Digest of importance . . .
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:14:34 -0500
From: "John Simmons" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Howdy . . .

            I have read www.drugawareness.org recently, and that site has an
eGroups Digest: drugawareness@egroups.com .

            This site begins to explain the shootings in schools,
businesses, post offices, murders, suicides, road rages, and other unnatural
behaviors.

            After studying this site, and the links,  this information must
be sent to others, to begin exposing this "time bomb" syndrome set upon the
general public, otherwise known as "terrorism" (??!?), going to PTA meetings
at the local schools, and why not begin law-suites to be brought against the
school nurses/doctors, to expand the terrorism concept, it should be
explained in light of long range "population control". I would entertain
comments from readers their input on this "satanic" venture.


        Best Wishes,    John
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                [click here]
                                Click Here!
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:46:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1460
>
>
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > jsavage  wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1451
> > >
> > >
> > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > jsavage  wrote:
> > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=14
41
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The pathology of many Holocaust Deniers was summed up by
Ralph
> > > > Ezekial
> > > > > > of the Harvard School of Public Health in his book "The
Racist
> > > > Mind:"
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > When the term 'pathology'  is used in the same sentence
> > > > > with the words Harvard School of Public Health you would
> > > > > immediately associate the term with the structural and
> > > > > functional deviations from the normal that constitute
> > > > > disease/s ......
> > > >
> > > > Having fun with your computer dictionary!
> > >
> > > js
> > > Don't own a computer dictionairy...no need :)
> >
> > Strange how your definitions match the unsophisticated dictionaries
> > found on most computers!
> >
> js
> Regrettably...there are situations when one must descend to a less
> dignified level of communication....It is truly afflictive to lower
> oneself to the utter most depths of the earth just to communicate
> with a UHOO STUPID -- good buddy!

Don't blame your mental suffering on me. But thanks for admitting to
using such a dictionary, such admissions are good for your soul.

>
>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If the person who wrote the statement above was thinking
> > > > > of the medical definition of 'pathology' he just factually
> > > > > stated that ANYBODY that has reservations of the hohohoax
> > > > > ....to any degree....is diseased!....
> > > >
> > > > No. He clearly stated this as a pathology of many deniers,
> > particularly
> > > > those with a Neo-Nazi fixation.
> > > >
> > > js
> > >
> > > Pure supposition!....

Nope. Professional judgment.

> >
> > Irrelevant to your erroneous characterization that ANYBODY who had
> > questions about the Holocaust is diseased.
>
> js
> Your ability to read AND comprehend ANYTHING beyond a pre-
> school level is exceptionally obvious....

I note you avoid addressing your original erroneous statement, and
continue to run off in other directions.

>
> UHOO STUPID!...Notice the sentence in question begins with "If"....
> Starting a sentence with "If" makes it conditional...good buddy!

Which , of course, has nothing to do with it being irrelevant.

>
> It does not make it an "erroneous characterization"...good buddy!

It most certainly does. Nice try though!

>
> I will make the following suggestion....go to your
> "sophisticated" dictionary of choice....and if at all
> possible...learn the meaning of the word "If"....good buddy!

You really should learn not to overplay weak hands.

>
>
>
> > But it is typical of you
> > having had one nonsensical notions exposed to run to something out
> > without comment.

> > In the opening statement neo-nazi
> > > had not been mentioned....shows the emotional deformity
> > > of what little mind you possess....
> >
> > Sure!
> >
> > >
> > > Give me your definition of neo-nazi....
> >
> > No. Look it up on your little computer.
> > >
>
> Just as I thouht!!!....good buddy!  You don't have a
> definition!! All you are capable of doing is parroting
> the lies others have told you....

Oh, is that what you thouht (sic)!

>
> It is called boot licking...good buddy! (of course
> it is possible you have that fettish and do enjoy it)

You're the boot licker, one of the Jew hating variety. But I see you
abandoned any defense of your silly commentary of the "The Racist Mind"
. Do you have attention deficit problems, or have you realized you're
in too deep?

> > > > >
> > > > > If the person making the statement was using 'pathology' to
> > > > > mean one who deviates from conforming to what is socially
> > > > > accepted in conduct....or one who deviates from an assumed
> > > > > normal state of something...he is doing nothing but making
> > > > > an assumption....there is NOT one fact in this email!
> > > >
> > > > He was using it in the sense of abnormal.
> > >
> > > js
> > > Most assuredly!....off course we are going to
> > > allow him to define abnormal for us...aren't we?!
> >
> > It's not his definition.
> >
>
> js
> It most certainly is! He knows most people have a
> limited understanding of the word 'pathology' and
> will not spend the time to "look it up"....by not
> giving a specific definition he allows the reader
> to "fill in the blank" with what ever they believe
> is the meaning of the word....In all but a few
> cases their definition will be erroneous....This is
> his hoped for definition....it is an old trick of
> spin artists....good buddy!

All unsupported speculation. His use of the term is correct. Your
mindless objection to it is irrelevant. You need to show it's his
definition.

> > > > Denying proven history while
> > > > secretly knowing it happened and reveling in that fact is
abnormal
> > by
> > > > any definition.
> > >
> > > js
> > > Give me proof...and start with the numbers...the
> > > six million figure....we'll soon see who is abnormal!
> >
> > Snippets are posted daily. You run from any discussion of it. Give
me
> > proof that the bombing of Nagasaki occurred resulting in the deaths
of
> > 70,000 people?

Failure to answer noted!

> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > His professional judgement in this regard is certainly
> > > > more meaningful
> > >
> > > js
> > > He is a jew....Of course there would be no prepossesion
> > > on his part...or yours....would there?
> >
> > His Jewishess is irrelevant, just as your feigned Christianity is.
Your
> > behavior, however, is indicative of the pathology.
> >
> js
> "Denying proven history while secretly knowing it happened
> and reveling in that fact is abnormal by any definition."
>

Ah, you've learned something!  When will you repent?

>
>
> > >
> > > "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
> > > father ye will do. He was a murderer from the begining
> > > and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in
> > > him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for
> > > he is a liar, and the father of it".  John 8:44
> >
> > Irrelevant to the discussion.
> >
> js
> Not in the least....good buddy!....the word of God
> says..."When he speaketh a lie when he speaketh OF HIS OWN:...".

Irrelevant to the discussion.

>
> It is entirely different when he is speaking *to*
> his own....

All are his own.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > One would be wise to believe the words of our God...
> > > especially so when they are concerning antichrists!
> > >
> > >
> > > > than the counterfeit "facts" presented by Jew hating
> > > > deniers on this list.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's see....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Holocaust plays a paradoxical role
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > Big word for..." not being of the normal or usual kind "...
> > > > > Of course nothing of a lie is normal....
> > > >
> > > > Context means everything. Abnormal in the context used is a
strong
> > word.
> > > >
> > >
> > > js
> > > Correct....but this is his context....he is the one
> > > defining abnormal....Which in itself doesn't make it so....
> >
> > No he isn't. He's using accepted definitions. And you are abnormal.
> > Live with it.
> >
> js
> He hasn't defined anything!

Poor fool, you just said above he was! Difficult to keep up, eh!

>
>
> > >
> > > See the pattern....we must always allow them to
> > > define the term...and then like good little sheep
> > > fall in line and do their biding....
> >
> > I find it hard to imagine anything you could accomplish which "they"
> > would wish to bid. You're merely a paranoid hater, and you would be
> > recognized as such by 9 out of 10 people exposed to you.
> >
>
> js
> Your last statement is nothing but a LIE!!!....Liar...Liar
> pants on fire!!!

Nope. I've pegged you accurately, hater.

> > > > > > in all this.  On the one hand,
> > > > > > Holocaust denial matters to the movement,
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > This is a good one...without the hohohoax the movement
> > > > > might not exist....(whatever the movement is)
> > > >
> > > > No, without the reality of the Holocaust. See, you're abnormal.
> > > >
> > > js
> > > He didn't say that!...and you are trying to spin his
> > > statement....
> >
> > Backwards as usual. It is you trying to spin his statement,
although I
> > realize it just may be your poor reading comprehension.
> >
>
> js
> I believe you supplied the word 'reality'....it was NOT
> in the original statement...nor was it implied...

It doesn't need to be. You tried to deliberately confuse the actual
fact of the Holocaust as important to the  movement with your clearly
erroneous interpretation that it's some myth of the Holocaust that is
important to the movement. Not a sophisticated gambit, to be sure, but
one which needed to be pointed out.

> > > > > > and its presses claim
> > > > > > insistently that it is debatable whether those systematic
> > murders
> > > > took
> > > > > > place.
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > which is an opposing and antagonistic view point.
> > > >
> > > > Historical fact does not rest on viewpoints, which is why you
never
> > > > offer any substantial rebuttal to the known facts of that
period.
> > >
> > >
> > > js
> > > It most certainly does!...it comes down to the fact of
> > > which view point you believe....The conqueror writes the
> > > history books....
> >
> > The conqueror doesn't write the facts. Facts and viewpoints are not
the
> > same. You wish to believe that because you think it provides some
> > credibility to whatever assinine opinion you wish to offer. But you
> > can't give me a single instance in history were your "conquerors"
> > writing of history created the existence of a massive event that
didn't
> > really occur. You run from facts and offer delusions instead.
> >
>
> Evolution!!!
> Seperation of church and state....
> Pluarlism..

These are not historical events and did not involve wars with
"conquerors". I see now why you have problems.

.
> The Tet Offensive!!!

Sorry, the Tet Offensive occurred!

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > ...The jew
> > > > > doesn't like this....he wants a one way street...The more lies
> > > > > he has to tell the more vulnerable he becomes....
> > > >
> > > > Ah, this must be some of the fact laden stuff you were talking
> > about.
> > > > Sounds like mindless Jew hating to me!
> > >
>
> js
> See you can NOT deal with facts....let me post them
> again....good buddy!
>
> John 8:44; John 12:40; Mt 13:15; 1John 2:18-23; 4:3;
> 2John 7-11; John 5:23;

These are not facts.

> > > > > > The white racist movement
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > If there is such a thing as "The white racist movement"...
> > > > > it has to also mean...that the jews ARE NOT WHITE!!
> > > >
> > > > No it doesn't.
> > >
> > > js
> > > It has too!!!
> >
> > No it doesn't. The word would be "to" and I see your ability to
> > construct a simple logic set is missing.

Given up, I see.

> > >
> > > >It's how they describe themselves.
> > >
> > > js
> > > Of another race??....you are mumbling!
> >
> > The white racists, try to keep up.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > But only a racist
> > > > would seek to read such a meaning in the sentence.
> > > >
> > > js
> > > One can NOT be a racist among his own race...you are
> > > attempting to redefine the word racist to fit your own
> > > preconceived ideas!.....
> > >
> >
> > Nonsense. One most certainly can.
> >
>
> js
> HOW can that be possible WITHOUT changing
> the definition of racist?....good biuddy! (this ought to be good!)

One can be racist towards a group of which one is a member.

> > > > > > knows that for most people the
> > > > > > immediate association with the word 'Nazi' is the word
> > 'Holocaust,'
> > > > an
> > > > > > association that hinders broad organizing.
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > Nothing but word association...use them often enough
> > > > > together and in a couple of generations they will become
> > > > > synonymous terms....even if there is no truth!
> > > >
> > > > Apt word association, which correctly describes National
Socialism
> > in
> > > > action, and which Neo-Nazis seek to distort because it is
properly
> > > > anathema to decent peole.
> > > >
> > >
> > > js
> > > Nice spin....to bad it sucks!
> >
> > Nice empty response. And this time you should have used "too".
> > >
>
> js
> That's correct....but it still sucks and you
> know it...good buddy!

And your response is still empty.

> > > > > Some people can be brainwashed with an eye dropper!!....
> > > >
> > > > Is that how it happened with you?
> > >
> > > js
> > > No....it took emersion for the remission of sins (which
> > > in my case requires more than an eye dropper )
> > >
> >
> > I imagine.

> > > > > > that the movement's                 fascination with the
> > Holocaust
> > > > is
> > > > > > exactly that: fascination.  The most
> > > > >
> > > > >  > >
> > > > > > important thing for members about Hitler's regime is that it
> > was a
> > > > > > force so
> > > > > > strong and so ruthless that it did not hesitate to murder.
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > Reminds one of the jews...dosen't it...
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps you, but that is your pathology.
> > > >
> > >
> > > js
> > > I wonder if it is the 'pathology' of the mother
> > > and father of this baby?
> > >
> > > http://www.hezbollah.org/terror.htm
> >
> > Ah, another Jew hating site! If you seek lies to fit your notions,
you
> > will find them, hater.
> >
>
> js
> Has good reason to be...doesn't it??...See what
> happens to people that are totally disarmed...
>

No it doesn't.

> Of course your handlers have told you that it
> would never happen in America...haven't they...good buddy!

The danger of it happening comes from people like you. But we won't
allow that to happen.

>
> > >
> > > or is this your 'pathology'....
> > >
> > > "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
> > > Rabbi Yaacov Perrin (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6)
> >
> > Do you know anything of the context of that remark? Thought not.
> >
>
> js
> Sure do! ....
>
> And from now on don't spout context to me....ANYONE
> that refuses to accept the exceptionally clear context...
> of John 8:44; John 12:40; Mt 13:15; 1John 2:18-23; 4:3;
> 2John 7-11; John 5:23;....is totally inept in trying to
> establish context in any other written material...In this
> case it shows your hypocricy and your total disdain for
> the word of God!

I will point out your errors of context at every occurence. The context
of your biblical references is unclear and irrelevant to the discussion
of the article, which discussion you have mostly abandoned because
you're really not up to it.

>
> BTW:....when I find the article I'll email it!
>
> > >
> > > ....must be...you condone it by graveling at their feet!
> >
> > Graveling? You really don't have much to offer,do you?

Hehehe.

> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > contemporary white racists NEED to talk endlessly about the
> > > > Holocaust,
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > Here we go again....only whites are racists ....
> > > >
> > > > Having trouble with reading comprehension I see. Probably a
result
> > of
> > > > having to look up every other word.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And therefore jews can not be white...this is by
> > > > > their own addmission!....
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > When did they admit this? No wonder you have trouble
interpreting
> > the
> > > > Bible.
> > > >
>
> js
> Noticed you can't deal with TRUE facts....good buddy!

Try offering one!

> It is easy for you to sit there and run your mouth...
> but when confronted with TRUE FACTS you run and hide...

Gee, let me know when you're going to spring them!

>
> hahahahahaha!....you are a Liar...good buddy!...and
> a coward!
>
> Want me to re-post the PROOF that jews admit they
> aren't white?...

Yes, from THIS thread, which was YOUR contention!

> > > js
> > > Ever think that it might be YOUR problem....
> >
> > Heh, heh.

Heh, heh, heh.

> >
> > >
> > >
> > > UHOO STUPID!....this is called assimilation...good
> > > buddy!
> >
> > Irrelvant to your erroneous point.
> >
>
> You need to read it again....and pay close attention to
> the last statement....the one that says....

>
> "a relationship based not upon a common enemy, not upon
> a common history, but instead upon a common purpose, the
> purpose of teaching  America at long last what pluralism
> is all about."
>
Yup, irrelevant, as I said.

> That is assimilation....GOOD BUDDY!
>
> These Christ haters are NOT white and they don't want
> any body else to be either!

They don't hate Christ. You hate them and wish to believe that.

(snip article irrelevant to the discussion of "The Racist Mind".

> >
> > > They jews are NOT for the races....they want ONE BIG race...
> > > which again is totally opposite from what the Bible teaches!
> >
> > So what. You'd probably look better black.
> >
> js
> God must not have thought so....good buddy!

That's correct, people owe their color to Him. Remember that racist
hater!

> > > > > > need to keep saying over and over again that it did not
happen
> > -- so
> > > > > > that they can keep talking about it, can keep thinking about
> > it, can
> > > > > > keep reassuring          themselves that it DID happen, that
> > they
> > > > are
> > > > > > part of a movement so merciless that they are safe.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "If they really believed Nazism had not killed, it would
bore
> > them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "On occasion I have asked a young militant to imagine, just
for
> > a
> > > > > > moment,
> > > > > > that people like me are telling the truth:
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > I love this one....this jew doesn't say I'm telling
> > > > > the truth....he says IMAGINE that I am telling the
> > > > > truth!....Do you suppose he preceived the young
> > > > > militant knew John 8:44?
> > > >
> > > > You're lying or stupid. He's talking to people who profess
> > disbelief,
> > > > therefore he's asking them to suspend disbelief for the
purposes of
> > > > answering a question. By the way Jew hater, his ethnic
background is
> > > > irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > js
> > > Disbelief in what?....the hohohoax!?
> >
> > Gee, you are slow.
> >
> > >
> > > When one is telling the truth YOU DO NOT HAVE TO
> > > PRETEND...good buddy! TRUTH will stand ANY investigation!
> >
> > You're not telling the truth. You're so ignorant of the facts you
> > couldn't know if you were or not. Just more of your pathology.
> >
> js
> I notice that YOU are the one that deletes the facts....good buddy!
> Can't deal with the truth?....good buddy!....most liars can't and
> you are no exception....good buddy!

I deleted no relevant facts. The discussion is about the article. You
wish to turn every discussion into a Jew hating diatribe, and that is
your pathology!

>
>
>
> > >
> > > Why did this jew want to pretend that he was telling
> > > the truth
> >
> > He wasn't. It's called a hypothetical,
>
> js
> UHOO STUPID....READ THIS!!!   I AGREE THAT IT IS HYPOTHETICAL!!

I hypothetical is not pretending. Why are you shouting, getting upset!

> > such as if I were to ask you to
> > imagine your IQ exceeded double digits.
> >
>
> js
> after reading the above I can honestly say my
> supposed double digit IQ is eons above the single
> digit category in which you would be placed...good buddy!

"Eons above"?  Hehehe.

> > >
> > > ....and when the word of God says someone is a liar
> > > you had better be able to discern who the people are
> > > that he is refering too...(John 8:44)...because in
> > > 2John 11 God says if you condone their evil deeds you
> > > become as one of them....
> >
> > Irrelevant.
>
> js
> You sure would like it to be...wouldn't
> you good buddy!

It's a fact, sorry.

>
>
>
> > > > > that Hitler and his group
> > > > > > DID kill six million Jews, individuals who were in no way
> > guilty of
> > > > a
> > > > > > crime.  Would that make any difference to him? Every one
> > answered
> > > > that
> > > > > > it would make no difference at all.  The Bolsheviks were
Jews,
> > they
> > > > > > would say, and had killed            twenty million
Christians
> > > > > > themselves, and bad things happen in             wartime
anyway,
> > > > and so
> > > > > > on.  The point is that not one of the young men who has been
> > able to
> > > > > > imagine for a moment that I am right was at all bothered.  I
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > > > they are fairly sure that Hitler did murder, and they are
fairly
> > > > glad;
> > > > > > it reassures them."
> > > > >
> > > > > js
> > > > > And finally....another fact filled...."I think" hahahaha!!!
> > > >
> > > > Thinking is not something concerning which you demonstrate much
> > ability.
> > > >
> > > > You must have attended school on some Iowa farm.
> > >
> > > js
> > > I believe you made the following quote...
> > >
> > > > "his ethnic background is irrelevant."....
> > >
> > > Which makes you a LIAR and a hypocrite...good buddy! :)
> >
> > Non sequitur. You really are trying too hard.
> >
>
> js
> Another lie...good buddy!

The quote does not make me a liar, but it does reveal your inability to
follow a simple exchange. And it is a non sequitur.

> > > You are living proof that....
> > >
> > > Artificial intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity....
> >
> > Do you know what artificial intelligence is?
>
> js
> Nooooo....tell me all about it.

Here's a hint, it has nothing to do with human intelligence!

>
> it's time to go fishing....

Ah, something you might be able to do!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: "The Racist Mind"
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:49:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1461
> In a message dated 9/25/99 12:30:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jsavage@bluenet.net writes:
>
> << I will make the following suggestion....go to your
>  "sophisticated" dictionary of choice....and if at all
>  possible...learn the meaning of the word "If"....good buddy!
>
>   >>
> He and his type have a hard time deciding what the definition "is"
is.
> Example: Bill Clinton and the Jewish controlled media let on like he
has done
> nothing wrong.

The media is not Jewish controlled, and the widespread exposure of Bill
Clinton's sexual peccadilloes is proof.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:50:59 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1471
> In a message dated 9/23/99 11:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> jsavage@bluenet.net writes:
>
> << Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
>  we should never underestimate the power of very
>  stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....
>   >>
> I am reading.

What an accomplishment!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:51:22 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/25/99 11:51:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< > In a message dated 9/23/99 11:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 > jsavage@bluenet.net writes:
 >
 > << Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
 >  we should never underestimate the power of very
 >  stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....
 >   >>
 > I am reading.


 What an accomplishment!

 Philip Mathews

  >>

Phil, why all of the anomosity? I can't help it your a Jew. Blame your God.
Because you are a poster child for abortion doesn't mean that you have to
comment on everything....No wait a minute...That is why you *are* a poster
child  for abortion sorry about that.
 Michael Snead
    14/ABB
       ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:46:44 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1476
> In a message dated 9/25/99 11:51:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << > In a message dated 9/23/99 11:11:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>  > jsavage@bluenet.net writes:
>  >
>  > << Sneadster....if you are reading this..take warning...
>  >  we should never underestimate the power of very
>  >  stupid people in large groups hahahahaha!.....
>  >   >>
>  > I am reading.
>
>
>  What an accomplishment!
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   >>
>
> Phil, why all of the anomosity? I can't help it your a Jew.

You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not. That you prefer to submit
it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with facts generally.
Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the hate-filled,
racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:57:39 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/25/99 4:48:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< > Phil, why all of the anomosity? I can't help it your a Jew.

 ****If you will see the "i" and the "o" are close together on the key board
simple mistake, but read on...

You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not. That you prefer to submit
 it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with facts generally.
 Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the hate-filled,
 racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
 intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.

 Philip Mathews
  >>

******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is defiantly not your forte. You
would think that if you were going to correct someone's spelling that you
would at least use spell check on your computer (remember you trying to
explain that to jsavage?). You question my education? hehehehe.  Indicative
of how loose *you* are of the facts *JACK*.  You want to sling your name
calling around  at  everyone who disagrees with you which shows two things:
1. Your inability to cope with disagreement.
2. Your insecurity of your race.
Michael Snead
  14ABB
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:03:44 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1478
> In a message dated 9/25/99 4:48:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << > Phil, why all of the anomosity? I can't help it your a Jew.
>
>  ****If you will see the "i" and the "o" are close together on the
key board
> simple mistake, but read on...

Uh, huh!

>
> You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not. That you prefer to submit
>  it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with facts generally.
>  Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the
hate-filled,
>  racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
>  intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
>
> ******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is defiantly not your forte.

Intelligence, not being a living thing, cannot be defiant. You really
should stick to the level of expression commensurate with your
abilities. You're less likely to make a fool of yourself that way.

 You
> would think that if you were going to correct someone's spelling that
you
> would at least use spell check on your computer (remember you trying
to
> explain that to jsavage?).

Nope. Savage and I never discussed spell checkers, but that's typical
of you.

 You question my education? hehehehe.  Indicative
> of how loose *you* are of the facts *JACK*.

The proper expression is "loose with the facts".

 You want to sling your name
> calling around  at  everyone who disagrees with you which shows two
things:

Questioning your intellect and education is not name calling, try again.


> 1. Your inability to cope with disagreement.

I cope with it smashingly, as this post is proof.

> 2. Your insecurity of your race.

Back to unsupported speculation so as to enable you to exhibit your
mindless hatred again, I see. I think we know who is insecure, don't we
Snead!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Fw: WHAT GOOD CAN A HANDGUN DO AGAINST AN ARMY.....?
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:11:42 -0500
From: "John Simmons" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>, , ,
     "Jim Bunkley" , ,
     

Howdyyy, thought this article is of interest to the current turn of
events.       John
----- Original Message -----
From: Bobby Louis
To: Undisclosed
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 2:29 PM
Subject: WHAT GOOD CAN A HANDGUN DO AGAINST AN ARMY.....?

http://syninfo.com/ian/PRIVATE/1999/09/26/1999092609122679.html

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT GOOD CAN A HANDGUN DO AGAINST AN ARMY.....?

fwd...

http://www.doubleought.com/1pistol.html
WHAT GOOD CAN A HANDGUN DO AGAINST AN ARMY.....?
By Mike Vanderboegh
5 December 1998

   A friend of mine recently forwarded me a question a friend of his had posed:

   "If/when our Federal Government comes to pilfer, pillage, plunder our
property and destroy our lives, what good can a handgun do against an army
with advanced weaponry, tanks, missiles, planes, or whatever else they
might have at their disposal to achieve their nefarious goals? (I'm not
being facetious: I accept the possibility that what happened in Germany, or
similar, could happen here; I'm just not sure that the potential good from
an armed citizenry in such a situation outweighs the day-to-day problems
caused by masses of idiots who own guns.)"

   If I may, I'd like to try to answer that question. I certainly do not
think the writer facetious for asking it. The subject is a serious one that
I have given much research and considerable thought to. I believe that upon
the answer to this question depends the future of our Constitutional
republic, our liberty and perhaps our lives. My friend Aaron Zelman, one of
the founders of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, once told
me:

   "If every Jewish and anti-nazi family in Germany had owned a Mauser rifle
and twenty rounds of ammunition AND THE WILL TO USE IT (emphasis supplied,
MV), Adolf Hitler would be a little-known footnote to the history of the
Weimar Republic."

   Note well that phrase: "and the will to use it," for the simply-stated
question, "What good can a handgun do against an army?", is in fact a
complex one and must be answered at length and carefully. It is a military
question. It is also a political question. But above all it is a moral
question which strikes to the heart of what makes men free, and what makes
them slaves. First, let's answer the military question.

   Most military questions have both a strategic and a tactical component.
Let's consider the tactical.

   A friend of mine owns an instructive piece of history. It is a small,
crude pistol, made out of sheet-metal stampings by the U.S. during World
War II. While it fits in the palm of your hand and is a slowly-operated,
single-shot arm, it's powerful .45 caliber projectile will kill a man with
brutal efficiency. With a short, smooth-bore barrel it can reliably kill
only at point blank ranges, so its use requires the will (brave or
foolhardy) to get in close before firing. It is less a soldier's weapon
than an assassin's tool. The U.S. manufactured them by the million during
the war, not for our own forces but rather to be air-dropped behind German
lines to resistance units in occupied Europe. Crude and slow (the fired
case had to be knocked out of the breech by means of a little wooden dowel,
a fresh round procured from the storage area in the grip and then manually
reloaded and cocked) and so wildly innaccurate it couldn't hit the broad
side of a French barn at 50 meters, to the Resistance man or woman who had
no firearm it still looked pretty darn good.

   The theory and practice of it was this: First, you approach a German
sentry with your little pistol hidden in your coat pocket and, with
Academy-award sincerity, ask him for a light for your cigarette (or the
time the train leaves for Paris, or if he wants to buy some non-army-issue
food or a perhaps half-hour with your "sister"). When he smiles and casts a
nervous glance down the street to see where his Sergeant is at, you blow
his brains out with your first and only shot, then take his rifle and
ammunition. Your next few minutes are occupied with "getting out of Dodge,"
for such critters generally go around in packs. After that (assuming you
evade your late benefactor's friends) you keep the rifle and hand your
little pistol to a fellow Resistance fighter so they can go get their own
rifle.

   Or maybe you then use your rifle to get a submachine gun from the Sergeant
when he comes running. Perhaps you get very lucky and pickup a light
machine gun, two boxes of ammunition and a haversack of hand grenades. With
two of the grenades and the expenditure of a half-a-box of ammunition at a
hasty roadblock the next night, you and your friends get a truck full of
arms and ammunition. (Some of the cargo is sticky with "Boche" blood, but
you don't mind terribly.)

   Pretty soon you've got the best armed little maquis unit in your part of
France, all from that cheap little pistol and the guts to use it. (One
wonders if the current political elite's opposition to so-called "Saturday
Night Specials" doesn't come from some adopted racial memory of previous
failed tyrants. Even cheap little pistols are a threat to oppressive
regimes.)

   They called the pistol the "Liberator." Not a bad name, all in all.

   Now let's consider the strategic aspect of the question, "What good can a
handgun do against an army....?" We have seen that even a poor pistol can
make a great deal of difference to the military career and postwar plans of
one enemy soldier. That's tactical. But consider what a million pistols, or
a hundred million pistols (which may approach the actual number of handguns
in the U.S. today), can mean to the military planner who seeks to carry out
operations against a populace so armed. Mention "Afghanistan" or "Chechnya"
to a member of the current Russian military heirarchy and watch them
shudder at the bloody memories. Then you begin to get the idea that modern
munitions, air superiority and overwhelming, precision-guided violence
still are not enough to make victory certain when the targets are not
sitting Christmas-present fashion out in the middle of the desert.

   I forget the name of the Senator who observed, "You know, a million here
and a million there, and pretty soon you're talking about serious money."
Consider that there are at least as many firearms-- handguns, rifles and
shotguns-- as there are citizens of the United States. Consider that last
year there were more than 14 million Americans who bought licenses to hunt
deer in the country. 14 million-- that's a number greater than the largest
five professional armies in the world combined. Consider also that those
deer hunters are not only armed, but they own items of military utility--
everything from camoflage clothing to infrared "game finders", Global
Positioning System devices and night vision scopes.

   Consider also that quite a few of these hunters are military veterans.
Just as moving around in the woods and stalking game are second nature,
military operations are no mystery to them, especially those who were on
the receiving end of guerrilla war in Southeast Asia. Indeed, such men,
aging though they may be, may be more psychologically prepared for the
exigencies of civil war (for this is what we are talking about) than their
younger active-duty brother-soldiers whose only military experience
involved neatly defined enemies and fronts in the Grand Campaign against
Saddam. Not since 1861-1865 has the American military attempted to wage a
war athwart its own logistical tail (nor indeed has it ever had to use
modern conventional munitions on the Main Streets of its own hometowns and
through its' relatives backyards, nor has it tested the obedience of
soldiers who took a very different oath with orders to kill their
"rebellious" neighbors, but that touches on the political aspect of the
question).

   But forget the psychological and political for a moment, and consider just
the numbers. To paraphrase the Senator, "A million pistols here, a million
rifles there, pretty soon you're talking serious firepower." No one,
repeat, no one, will conquer America, from within or without, until its
citizenry are disarmed. We remain, as a British officer had reason to
complain at the start of our Revolution, "a people numerous and armed."

   The Second Amendment is a political issue today only because of the
military reality that underlies it. Politicians who fear the people seek to
disarm them. People who fear their government's intentions refuse to be
disarmed. The Founders understood this. So, too, does every tyrant who ever
lived. Liberty-loving Americans forget it at their peril. Until they do,
American gunowners in the aggregate represent a strategic military fact and
an impediment to foreign tyranny. They also represent the greatest
political challenge to home-grown would-be tyrants. If the people cannot be
forcibly disarmed against their will, then they must be persuaded to give
up their arms voluntarily. This is the siren song of "gun control," which
is to say "government control of all guns," although few self-respecting
gun-grabbers such as Charles Schumer would be quite so bold as to phrase it
so honestly.

   Joseph Stalin, when informed after World War II that the Pope disapproved
of Russian troops occupying Trieste, turned to his advisors and asked, "The
Pope? The Pope? How many divisions does he have?" Dictators are unmoved by
moral suasion. Fortunately, our Founders saw the wisdom of backing the
First Amendment up with the Second. The "divisions" of the army of American
constitutional liberty get into their cars and drive to work in this
country every day to jobs that are hardly military in nature. Most of them
are unmindful of the service they provide. Their arms depots may be found
in innumerable closets, gunracks and gunsafes. They have no appointed
officers, nor will they need any until they are mobilized by events. Such
guardians of our liberty perform this service merely by existing. And
although they may be an ever-diminishing minority within their own country,
as gun ownership is demonized and discouraged by the ruling elites, still
they are as yet more than enough to perform their vital task. And if they
are unaware of the impediment they present to their would-be rulers, their
would-be rulers are painfully aware of these "divisions of liberty", as
evidenced by their incessant calls for individual disarmament. They
understand moral versus military force just as clearly as Stalin, but they
would not be so indelicate as to quote him.

   The Roman Republic failed because they could not successfully answer the
question, "Who Shall Guard the Guards?" The Founders of this Republic
answered that question with both the First and Second Amendments. Like
Stalin, the Clintonistas could care less what common folk say about them,
but the concept of the armed citizenry as guarantors of their own liberties
sets their teeth on edge and disturbs their statist sleep.

   Governments, some great men once avowed, derive their legitimacy from "the
consent of the governed." In the country that these men founded, it should
not be required to remind anyone that the people do not obtain their
natural, God-given liberties by "the consent of the Government." Yet in
this century, our once great constitutional republic has been so profaned
in the pursuit of power and social engineering by corrupt leaders as to be
unrecognizable to the Founders. And in large measure we have ourselves to
blame because at each crucial step along the way the usurpers of our
liberties have obtained the consent of a majority of the governed to do
what they have done, often in the name of "democracy"-- a political system
rejected by the Founders. Another good friend of mine gave the best
description of pure democracy I have ever heard. "Democracy," he concluded,
"is three wolves and a sheep sitting down to vote on what to have for
dinner." The rights of the sheep in this system are by no means guaranteed.

   Now it is true that our present wolf-like, would-be rulers do not as yet
seek to eat that sheep and its peaceable wooly cousins (We, the people).
They are, however, most desirous that the sheep be shorn of taxes, and if
possible and when necessary, be reminded of their rightful place in society
as "good citizen sheep" whose safety from the big bad wolves outside their
barn doors is only guaranteed by the omni-presence in the barn of the "good
wolves" of the government. Indeed, they do not present themselves as wolves
at all, but rather these lupines parade around in sheep's clothing,
bleating insistently in falsetto about the welfare of the flock and the
necessity to surrender liberty and property "for the children", er, ah, I
mean "the lambs." In order to ensure future generations of compliant sheep,
they are careful to educate the lambs in the way of "political
correctness," tutoring them in the totalitarian faiths that "it takes a
barnyard to raise a lamb" and "all animals are equal, but some animals are
more equal than others."

   Every now and then, some tough old independent-minded ram refuses to be
shorn and tries to remind the flock that they once decided affairs
themselves according to the rule of law of their ancestors, and without the
help of their "betters." When that happens, the fangs become apparent and
the conspicuously unwilling are shunned, cowed, driven off or
(occasionally) killed. But flashing teeth or not, the majority of the flock
has learned over time not to resist the Lupine-Mandarin class which herds
it. Their Founders, who were fiercely independent rams, would have long ago
chased off such usurpers. Any present members of the flock who think like
that are denounced as antediluvian or mentally deranged.

   There are some of these dissidents the lupines would like to punish, but
they dare not-- for their teeth are every bit as long as their "betters."
Indeed, this is the reason the wolves haven't eaten any sheep in
generations. To the wolves chagrin, this portion of the flock is armed and
they outnumber the wolves by a considerable margin. For now the wolves are
content are content to watch the numbers of these "armed sheep" diminish,
as long teeth are no longer fashionable in polite society. (Indeed, they
are considered by the literati to be an anachronism best forgotten and such
sheep are dismissed by the Mandarins as "Tooth Nuts" or "Right Leg
Fanatics".) When the numbers of armed sheep fall below below a level that
the wolves can feel safe to do so, the eating will begin. The wolves are
patient, and proceed by infinitesimal degrees like the slowly-boiling frog.
It took them generations to lull the sheep into accepting them as rulers
instead of elected representatives. If it takes another generation or two
of sheep to complete the process, the wolves can wait. This is our "Animal
Farm," without apology to George Orwell.

   Even so, the truth is that one man with a pistol CAN defeat an army, given
a righteous cause to fight for, enough determination to risk death for that
cause, and enough brains, luck and friends to win the struggle. This is
true in war but also in politics, and it is not necessary to be a Prussian
militarist to see it. The dirty little secret of today's ruling elite as
represented by the Clintonistas is that they want people of conscience and
principle to be divided in as many ways as possible ("wedge issues" the
consultants call them) so that they may be more easily manipulated. No
issue of race, religion, class or economics is left unexploited. Lost in
the din of jostling special interests are the few voices who point out that
if we refuse to be divided from what truly unites us as a people, we cannot
be defeated on the large issues of principle, faith, the constitutional
republic and the rule of law. More importantly, woe and ridicule will be
heaped upon anyone who points out that like the blustering Wizard of Oz,
the federal tax and regulation machine is not as omniscient, omnipotent or
fearsome as they would have us believe. Like the Wizard, they fan the scary
flames higher and shout, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

   For the truth is, they are frightened that we will find out how pitifully
few they are compared to the mass of the citizenry they seek to frighten
into compliance with their tax collections, property seizures and
bureaucratic, unconstitutional power-shifting. I strongly recommend
everyone see the new animated movie "A Bug's Life". Simple truths may often
be found sheltering beneath unlikely overhangs, there protected from the
pelting storm of lies that soak us everyday. "A Bug's Life", a childrens'
movie of all things, is just such a place.

   The plot revolves around an ant hill on an unnamed island, where the ants
placate predatory grasshoppers by offering them each year one-half of the
food they gather (sounds a lot like the IRS, right?). Driven to desperation
by the insatiable tax demands of the large, fearsome grasshoppers, one
enterprising ant goes abroad seeking bug mercenaries who will return with
him and defend the anthill when the grasshoppers return. (If this sounds a
lot like an animated "Magnificent Seven", you're right.)

   The grasshoppers (who roar about like some biker gang or perhaps the ATF
in black helicopters, take your pick) are, at one point in the movie,
lounging around in a "bug cantina" down in Mexico, living off the bounty of
the land. The harvest seeds they eat are dispensed one at a time from an
upturned bar bottle. Two grasshoppers suggest to their leader, a menacing
fellow named "Hopper" (whose voice characterization by Kevin Spacey is
suitably evil personified), that they should forget about the poor ants on
the island. Here, they say, we can live off the fat of the land, why worry
about some upstart ants? Hopper turns on them instantly. "Would you like a
seed?" he quietly asks one. "Sure," answers the skeptical grasshopper thug.
"Would you like one?" Hopper asks the other. "Yeah," says he. Hopper
manipulates the spigot on the bar bottle twice, and distributes the seeds
to them.

   "So, you want to know why we have to go back to the island, do you?"
Hopper asks menacingly as the thugs munch on their seeds. "I'll show you
why!" he shouts, removing the cap from the bottle entirely with one quick
blow. The seeds, no longer restrained by the cap, respond to gravity and
rush out all at once, inundating the two grasshoppers and crushing them.
Hopper turns to his remaining fellow grasshoppers and shrieks, "That's why!"

   I'm paraphrasing from memory here, for I've only seen the movie once. But
Hopper then explains, "Don't you remember the upstart ant on that island?
They outnumber us a hundred to one. How long do you think we'll last if
they ever figure that out?"

   "If the ants are not frightened of us," Hopper tells them, "our game is
finished. We're finished."

   Of course it comes as no surprise that in the end the ants figure that
out. Would that liberty-loving Americans were as smart as animated ants.

   Courage to stand against tyranny, fortunately, is not only found on
videotape. Courage flowers from the heart, from the twin roots of
deeply-held principle and faith in God. There are American heroes living
today who have not yet performed the deeds of principled courage that
future history books will record. They have not yet had to stand in the
gap, to plug it with their own fragile bodies and lives against the evil
that portends. Not yet have they been required to pledge "their lives,
their fortunes and their sacred honor." Yet they will have to. I believe
with all my heart the lesson that history teaches: That each and every
generation of Americans is given, along with the liberty and opportunity
that is their heritage, the duty to defend America against the tyrannies of
their day. Our father's father's fathers fought this same fight. Our
mother's mother's mothers fought it as well. From the Revolution through
the world wars, from the Cold War through to the Gulf, they fought to
secure their liberty in conflicts great and small, within and without.

   They stood faithful to the oath that our Founders gave us: To bear true
faith and allegiance-- not to a man; not to the land; not to a political
party, but to an idea. The idea is liberty, as codified in the Constitution
of the United States. We swear, as did they, an oath to defend the
Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And throughout the
years they paid in blood and treasure the terrible price of that oath. That
was their day. This is ours. The clouds we can see on the horizon may be a
simple rain or a vast hurricane, but there is a storm coming. Make no
mistake.

   Lincoln said that this nation cannot long exist half slave and half free.
I say, if I may humbly paraphrase, that this nation cannot long exist
one-third slave, one-third uncommitted, and one-third free. The slavery
today is of the mind and soul not the body, but it is slavery without a
doubt that the Clintons and their toadies are pushing.

   It is slavery to worship our nominally-elected representatives as our
rulers instead of requiring their trustworthiness as our servants. It is
slavery of the mind and soul that demands that God-given rights that our
Forefathers secured with their blood and sacrifice be traded for the false
security of a nanny-state which will tend to our "legitimate needs" as they
are perceived by that government. It is slavery of a more traditional sort
that extorts half of our incomes to pay, like slaves of old, for the
privilege of serving and supporting our master's regime.

   It is slavery to worship humanism as religion and slavery to deny life and
liberty to unborn Americans. As people of faith in God, whatever our
denomination, we are in bondage to a plantation system that steals our
money; seizes our property; denies our ancient liberties; denies even our
very history, supplanting it with sanitized and politicized "correctness";
denies our children a real public education; denies them even the mention
of God in school; denies, in fact, the very existence of God.

   So finally we are faced with, we must return to, the moral component of
the question: "What good can a handgun do against an army?" The answer is
"Nothing," or "Everything." The outcome depends upon the mind and heart and
soul of the man or woman who holds it. One may also ask, "What good can a
sling in the hands of a boy do against a marauding giant?" If your cause is
just and righteous much can be done, but only if you are willing to risk
the consequences of failure and to bear the burdens of eternal vigilance.

   A new friend of mine gave me a plaque the other day. Upon it is written
these words by Winston Churchill, a man who knew much about fighting tyranny:

   "Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win
without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and
not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with
all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There
may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of
victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

   The Spartans at Thermopylae knew this. The fighting Jews of Masada knew
this, when every man, woman and child died rather than submit to Roman
tyranny. The Texans who died at the Alamo knew this. The frozen patriots of
Valley Forge knew this. The "expendable men" of Bataan and Corregidor knew
this. If there is one lesson of Hitlerism and the Holocaust, it is that
free men, if they wish to remain free, must resist would-be tyrants at the
first opportunity and at every opportunity. Remember that whether they the
come as conquerors or elected officials, the men who secretly wish to be
your murderers must first convince you that you must accept them as your
masters. Free men and women must not wait until they are "selected",
divided and herded into Warsaw Ghettos, there to finally fight desperately,
almost without weapons, and die outnumbered.

   The tyrant must be met at the door when he appears. At your door, or mine,
wherever he shows his bloody appetite. He must be met by the pistol which
can defeat an army. He must be met at every door, for in truth we outnumber
him and his henchmen. It matters not whether they call themselves
Communists or Nazis or something else. It matters not what flag they fly,
nor what uniform they wear. It matters not what excuses they give for
stealing your liberty, your property or your life. "By their works ye shall
know them."

   The time is late. Those who once has trouble reading the hour on their
watches have no trouble seeing by the glare of the fire at Waco. Few of us
realized at the time that the Constitution was burning right along with the
Davidians. Now we know better.

   We have had the advantage of that horrible illumination for more than five
years now-- five years in which the rule of law and the battered old
parchment of our beloved Constitution have been smashed, shredded and
besmirched by the Clintonistas. In this process they have been aided and
abetted by the cowardly incompetence of the "opposition" Republican
leadership, a fact made crystal clear by the Waco hearings. They have
forgotten Daniel Webster's warning: "Miracles do not cluster. Hold on to
the Constitution of the United States of America and the Republic for which
it stands-- what has happened once in six thousand years may never happen
again. Hold on to your Constitution, for if the American Constitution shall
fail there will be anarchy throughout the world."

   Yet being able to see what has happened has not helped us reverse, or even
slow, the process. The sad fact is that we may have to resign ourselves to
the prospect of having to maintain our principles and our liberty in the
face of becoming a disenfranchised minority within our own country.

   The middle third of the populace, it seems, will continue to waffle in
favor of the enemies of the Constitution until their comfort level with the
economy is endangered. They've got theirs, Jack. The Republicans, who we
thought could represent our interests and protect the Constitution and the
rule of law, have been demonstrated to be political eunuchs. Alan Keyes was
dead right when he characterized the last election as one between "the
lawless Democrats and the gutless Republicans." The spectacular political
failures of our current leaders are unrivaled in our history unless you
recall the unprincipled jockeying for position and tragi-comedy of
misunderstanding and miscommunication which lead to our first Civil War.

   And make no mistake, it is civil war which may be the most horrible
corollary of the Law of Unintended Consequences as it applies to the
Clintonistas and their destruction of the rule of law. Because such people
have no cause for which they are willing to die (all morality being
relativistic to them, and all principles compromisable), they cannot fathom
the motives or behavior of people who believe that there are some
principles worth fighting and dying for. Out of such failures of
understanding come wars. Particularly because although such elitists would
not risk their own necks in a fight, they have no compunction about
ordering others in their pay to fight for them. It is not the deaths of
others, but their own deaths, that they fear. As a Christian, I cannot fear
my own death, but rather I am commanded by my God to live in such a way as
to make my death a homecoming. That this makes me incomprehensible and
threatening to those who wish to be my masters is something I can do little
about. I would suggest to them that they not poke their godless, tyrannical
noses down my alley. As the coiled rattlesnake flag of the Revolution
bluntly stated: "Don't Tread on Me!" Or, as our state motto here in Alabama
says: "We Dare Defend Our Rights."

   But can a handgun defeat an army? Yes. It remains to be seen whether the
struggle of our generation against the tyrants of our day in the first
decade of the 21st Century will bring a restoration of liberty and the rule
of law or a dark and bloody descent into chaos and slavery.

   If it is to be the former, I will meet you at the new Yorktown. If it is
to be the latter, I will meet you at Masada. But I will not be a slave. And
I know that whether we succeed or fail, if we should fall along the way,
our graves will one day be visited by other free Americans, thanking us
that we did not forget that, with help of Almighty God, in the hands of a
free man a handgun CAN defeat a tyrant's army.

Mike Vanderboegh
   P.O. Box 926
Pinson, AL 35126
Mo10Cav@aol.com
Copyright 1998.

*********************
The Command of Christ

And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and
sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." Then He said to
them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a
knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.
For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in
Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning
Me have an end." So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He
said to them, "It is enough." -Luke 22:35-38
*********************
"Those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for those who don't."

Countries having successful gun countrol laws in the 20th
Century -- and the results of the laws:

1915-1917 Ottoman Turkey, 1.5 million Armenians murdered
1929-1953 Soviet Union, 20 million people that opposed Stalin
            were murdered.
1933-1945 Nazi occupied Europe, 13 million Jews, Gypsies and
            others that opposed Hitler, murdered
1948-1952 China, 20 million anti-communists or communist
            reformers, murdered
1960-1981 Guatemala, 100,000 Maya Indians, murdered
1971-1979 Uganda, 300,000 Christians and political rivals of
            Idi Amin, murdered
1975-1979 Cambodia, 1 million educated persons, murdered

1968- ?   United States of America: TBA?

"Liberty can not be preserved without a general knowledge among the people.
   Let us dare to read, think, speak and write".  John Adams

"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself
a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go around
repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in
their struggle for independence."  Charles A. Beard, American
historian

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude
better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from
us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down
and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set
lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our
countrymen. -- Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia
State House, August 1, 1776.

The above information was brought to you under the Constitutional
protection of the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment is exclusively
guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. Support your right to engage in the
free exchange of ideas, information and criticism of government by
supporting your individual right to keep and bear arms.

**********************************************
To subscribe or unsubscribe, email:
       majordomo@precision-d.com
with the message:
       (un)subscribe ignition-point email@address
**********************************************

**********************************************

[Up one level]
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                [click here]
                                Click Here!
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

                            Name: 1999092609122679.html
   1999092609122679.html    Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html)
                        Encoding: quoted-printable

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:42:10 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/26/99 11:05:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Back to unsupported speculation so as to enable you to exhibit your
 mindless hatred again, I see. I think we know who is insecure, don't we
 Snead!

Rabbi Philip Mathews

  >>
******My hatred, just like yours is not mindless and obviously we need to
proofread what we send. The bottom line is I do not pretend to be better than
others where your existence hinges on the bare fact that you think you are.

Rabbi Mathews says:
You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not. That you prefer to submit
 it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with facts generally.
 Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the hate-filled,
 racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
 intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.


******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is definitely not your forte. You
would think that if you were going to correct someone's spelling that you
would at least use spell check on your computer. Corrected version here
parrot.
Michael Stephen Snead
      14/ABB
        ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications


Subject: [13texan] Re: Grom -- 84-1; False Names, Slogans and Courses. Christian anti-Semitism vs. Semitic anti-Christianism?
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 04:45:55 -0700
From: "Yuriy Kirienko" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: "Yuriy E. Kirienko" 

 Subject:                       False Names, Slogans and Courses.

Discourse Between:    1. Yuriy Kirienko (YK)

                                       2. Franklin Wayne Poley (FWP)

                                       3. Ian PUNNETT (IP)
Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:58:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1481
> In a message dated 9/26/99 11:05:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Back to unsupported speculation so as to enable you to exhibit your
>  mindless hatred again, I see. I think we know who is insecure, don't
we
>  Snead!
>
> Rabbi Philip Mathews

Don't we Snead!

>
>   >>
> ******My hatred, just like yours is not mindless and obviously we
need to
> proofread what we send.

Nope, your hatred is mindless because its based on a mountain of lies
which you choose to believe because you hate. Hating an entire group of
people is ipso facto mindless hatred. And your problems with the
language aren't a matter of proofreading, but a basic lack of skill.

 The bottom line is I do not pretend to be better than
> others where your existence hinges on the bare fact that you think
you are.

Nonsense, you pretend to be better than an entire ethnic group, whom
you hate. That's one reason why I'm better than you.

> You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not. That you prefer to submit
>  it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with facts generally.
>  Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the
hate-filled,
>  racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
>  intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.
>
>
> ******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is definitely not your
forte.

You're hardly qualified to judge. Glad to see you removed your pathetic
attempt at flowery language!

 You
> would think that if you were going to correct someone's spelling that
you
> would at least use spell check on your computer.

I don't use them, but you should.

 Corrected version here
> parrot.

Nothing to say, as usual, I see! Poor Jew hater!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:58:04 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/27/99 9:04:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sneadster@aol.com writes:

*********You  would think that if you were going to correct someone's
spelling that
 you would at least use spell check on your computer.

A Rabbi in denial........
 I don't use them, but you should.  Nothing to say, as usual, I see! Poor Jew
hater!
 Philip Mathews

*******You don't need spell check huh? Let's just read on Mr. Rhodes Scholar
 the ultimate Goyim hater.

Rabbi ashamed of his religion, race, and cult.............
You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not.

*******Oh I have a good idea.

Rabbi speaks of my being loose.........
That you prefer to submit it as fact is indicative of how loose you are with
facts generally.

******You have provided this group with enough facts that is indicative of
just how Jewish you really are. No gentile would go to the extremes you have
to defend the Jew.

Rabbi corrects my spelling.......
Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the hate-filled,
racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.


 ******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is definitely not your forte and
you should know a lot about racism, being educated by a Rabbi. If I truly
lacked intelligence, why do you even reply to my messages at all? Here I have
a third grade education, I keep you tore up all of the time, and I correct
your spelling...Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Your so funny Rabbi.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:52:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1484
> In a message dated 9/27/99 9:04:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Sneadster@aol.com writes:

> *********You  would think that if you were going to correct someone's
> spelling that
>  you would at least use spell check on your computer.

Poor Snead, apparently wilting under the tiny bit of pressure being
place on him, reposts an old exchange in the thread!

>
> A Rabbi in denial........
>  I don't use them, but you should.  Nothing to say, as usual, I see!
Poor Jew
> hater!
>  Philip Mathews
>
> *******You don't need spell check huh? Let's just read on Mr. Rhodes
Scholar
>  the ultimate Goyim hater.

>
> Rabbi ashamed of his religion, race, and cult.............
> You have no idea whether I'm Jewish or not.

>
> *******Oh I have a good idea.

Good, save it you'll need it.
>
>
> That you prefer to submit it as fact is indicative of how loose you
are with
> facts generally.
>
> ******You have provided this group with enough facts that is
indicative of
> just how Jewish you really are. No gentile would go to the extremes
you have
> to defend the Jew.

Unsupported speculation. Typical of your understanding of evidence and
proof.



...
> Animosity (the correct spelling) is a mild reaction to the
hate-filled,
> racist lies which you emit on a regular basis. And  your lack of
> intellingence, and probably education, is no excuse.
>
>
>  ******Intelligence (the correct spelling) is definitely not your
forte and
> you should know a lot about racism, being educated by a Rabbi. If I
truly
> lacked intelligence, why do you even reply to my messages at all?

Because your lies need responding to . Your stupidity and ignorance
make that  much easier. Thank you for that!

 Here I have
> a third grade education, I keep you tore up all of the time, and I
correct
> your spelling..

Come on now Snead, you just added a couple years on there, didn't you!

.Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Your so funny Rabbi.

That's "you're" poor Snead.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:29:04 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

1. Irving's Revisionist Conference A Great Success

Cincinnati, Ohio. Sept. 26. Under sheltering blue skies in the midst of a
magnificent Ohio autumn, English historian David Irving's Real History, USA
conference convened for three days in what was an unqualified success.
Approximately 125 people came to hear a roster of top calibre revisionist
speakers in the comfortable ambiance of a five star venue.

Irving opened and chaired the conference and detailed his forthcoming year
2000 libel suit against "Holocaust"-studies Professor Deborah Lipstadt, and
through her, against the entire, crumbling edifice of entrenched senility
that is the multi-billion dollar Shoahbusiness itself.

Mr. Irving revealed that Lipstadt has thus far received upwards of $5
million in defense funds and has hired numerous "expert" and professional
trial witnesses, such as Christopher Browning, to defend against the English
historian's contention that Lipstadt maliciously damaged his good name and
reputation.

During the legal process known as discovery, nine linear feet of Irving's
writings have been examined by Lipstadt's team with a fine-tooth comb. Out
of this massive collection of his papers and utterances--some 45 million
words--Lipstadt's defense team has been able to produce only 13 of Irving's
words that might be construed as anti-Jewish (or "anti-semitic" as the word
police prefer).

The ratio is so scant that it actually proves the opposite. In comparison
with the table talk and private correspondence running the gamut of western
leaders from Anthony Eden to Richard Nixon, both of whom littered their
conversations and letters with anti-Jewish invective, Irving's thirteen
words out of 45 million testify that he is anything but an anti-Jewish
bigot.

Irving screened a brief newsreel in German, which was shown in German movie
theatres during the Allied occupation, circa 1948. The subject was the
Allied show trial of Nazis charged with crimes at Auschwitz. In the
newsreel, the Allied reporter states that "300,000" people were killed at
Auschwitz (this figure comprises both Jewish and Gentile deaths) and makes
no mention of gas chambers.

This celluloid snippet should make Lipstadt and Co. sweat. (Recall that like
Jean-Marie LePen, both Eisenhower and Churchill regarded the alleged
homicidal gas chambers to be a "mere detail" of history, since both men make
no mention whatever of gassings in their comprehensive, multi-volume war
memoirs).

David Irving is preparing the new millennium's first act of table-turning,
whereby the "Holocaust" and the servile professor class that slavishly
upholds the aggregate mendacities grouped under that Newspeak moniker, will
itself be on trial.

Bradley Smith, the indefatigable poet laureate of libertarian revisionism,
gave the keynote Friday evening speech and it was not so much what Bradley
said that was remarkable (a humorous digression on memory, including lapses
in his own).

Rather, it was the fact that this 69 year old stalwart iconoclast is
soldiering on as he has during more than 20 years of revisionist activism,
most recently on college campuses, where student editors expecting to
confront a goose-stepping neo-something or other, meet instead a beatnik
Santa Claus who is a cross between Mark Twain and Charles Bukowski.

Bradley is that sign of contradiction which is so destabilizing to
preconceptions from any corner and by that token, heis a major revisionist
asset.

Smith was followed by researcher Peter der Margaritis, who detailed the
movements of Field Marshal Erwin Rommel on D-Day. June 6 was Rommel's wife's
birthday and he was in Germany when the Allies struck at Normandy.
Margaritis asserts that had Rommel been at his command post in France on
D-Day, the 12th SS Panzer Division would not have been wasted by being held
back as it was, but would have devastated Allied landing forces at Omaha and
Utah beach.

Saturday morning saw Joseph Bellinger work his way through an exhaustive
investigation of the death of RF-SS Heinrich Himmler. Bellinger offered
evidence that Himmler did not commit suicide by means of a concealed cyanide
pill (the official story), but was actually beaten to death by his American
interrogators.

Brian Renk, the son of a German soldier who, at age 15, fought in the Battle
of Berlin, did a yeoman job of documenting the errors and pretensions of
none other than Zündel and Irving nemesis Christopher Browning (who
allegedly received $35,000 for attempting to put Ernst Zündel behind bars at
his 1988 show trial).

Veteran revisionist Russ Granata detailed the tireless investigations which
he and Renaissance man Carlo Mattogno have conducted in the secret archive
of the former Soviet Union.

Canadian journalist and WWII hero Doug Collins (he escaped ten times from
German POW camps), provided the latest news on his ongoing legal battle with
the "human rights" lobby in his native land, which is pursuing his
conviction for an article he wrote daring to characterize Spielberg's
"Schindler's List" as "Swindler's List."

Three speakers in particular pushed the Irving conference beyond
superlatives and into the stratosphere of landmark revisionist significance.
John Sack, the Jewish journalist (CBS News, Esquire, Vanity Fair, GQ etc.)
delivered the address the US Holocaust Museum refused to allow (after
initially inviting him to give it).

Sack is a lively speaker, fast on his feet and punctuating his lecture with
jokes, human interest stories and a consummate humanity which radiates from
this avant-garde writer and Hollywood deal-maker.

His story of the holocaust against the Germans,including civilians, that
took place after the war, mostly at the hands of Jewish Poles in the employ
of the Communist police apparatus, has been recounted in his book, "An Eye
for an Eye."

Sack detailed the repression against him and his writing in an eloquent
oration that consists of a level of communication whereby even newcomers to
these issues are convinced that something is very rotten indeed in our mass
media. How can this Jewish insider, who knows Hollywood and Rockefeller
Center like the back of his hand, be refuted?

A lively question and answer session found Sack challenged on a number of
points. Throughout this collective revisionist grilling, Sack responded with
unfailing humor and good will. Mr. Sack remained for the whole of the
conference, taking notes and making recordings for a forthcoming magazine
article on revisionism, which he is writing for Esquire.

Charles Provan, the obscure Pennsylvania printer, WWII researcher and
Christian theologian ("The Bible and Birth Control"), detailed accounts of
several heretofore hidden Allied war crimes against Axis soldiers, which he
has discovered in the National Archives.

Provan focused on the machine-gunning of the unarmed German guards who
surrendered Dachau to two units of the American 42nd and 45th divisions.
Provan's research unearthed numerous statements of boldface hypocrisy from
American officers who excused the Allied atrocities on the grounds that the
soldiers were fatigued, stressed and "only following orders," thereby
demonstrating that Nuremberg was exactly what Göring, in his finest hour,
had said it was, "victor's justice."

Even Irving marveled at Provan's command of his subject matter as he spoke
for more than an hour directly from memory, reeling off a "chunk" of names,
dates and incidents, mostly without notes.

The Mount Olympus of the conference, who stood almost as tall as that fabled
peak, and who caused John Sack's pen to scurry across his notebook perhaps
more than any other speaker, was the incomparable Germar Rudolf. The
boyish-looking 34 year old former researcher for the renowned Max Planck
Institute, and doctoral candidate in chemistry, is now living in exile after
having fled Germany in the wake of  a 14 month prison term imposed on him
due to his Auschwitz studies.

He also has lost his wife and young children, his PhD. and his position at
Max Planck because of his revisionist work. Mr. Rudolf is a world-class
scientist, who like world class historian Irving, brings restless searching
and scholarly industry to bear on the central humbug of the age.

Rudolf is a product of Germany's Catholic gentry. He speaks excellent
English. There is nothing of the extremist or the fanatic about him. He had
a good upbringing and a fine education. He is balanced and self-effacing and
he does not find Hitler or Nazism appealing.

He is a scientist, an authority on solid state chemistry (such as the
chemical residues on stone, which is the theatre of revisionist
investigation in Auschwitz/Birkenau), who has, of necessity, become a
historiographer.

He is also the first major revisionist figure since Ditlieb Felderer to
share my concerns about the psychology and epistemology of the Newspeak
technology of mind control embedded in the imposition of the neologism
"Holocaust," as applied exclusively to Jewish contretemps in WWII.

Rudolf refers unabashedly to the Allied terror bombings of German cities and
the post-war ethnic cleansing of German civilians from historic German
territories in Poland, as "the holocausts against the Germans."

And he does not unconsciously and routinely use the "Holocaust" term as a
description of Jewish allegations, without qualifying it as the "so-called
'Holocaust" or as the, "Holocaust' with a capital H," precisely the
distinctions I also employ.

One great thing about a conference like this one is that the audience is
often as interesting as the speakers. I met many old friends and shining
lights in the revisionist firmament, including former US State Department
official Welby P. Campbell and such German holocaust survivors as ex-soldier
Hans Schmidt. I made many new friends and valuable contacts as well. We had
lively discussions and enjoyed good fellowship during the breaks and at the
banquet dinner.

The local Ohio community-members were hospitable and gracious and the
elegant and historic American river city of Cincinnati will be the permanent
site of what Irving has now established as an annual revisionist event.

Next year he hopes to host James Bacque, author of "Other Losses" and
"Crimes and Mercies," and Count Nikolai Tolstoy, author of "The Minister and
the Massacres," who was bankrupted by Lord Aldington (with the collusion of
the British government), after Tolstoy had publicized British complicity in
the murder of East European anti-communist refugees at the end of WWII.

One would not necessarily expect that a historian would make a good host or
organizer of people, venues and logistics in general, but David Irving has
something of the Rommel about him, weaving a seamless gathering under the
collective nose of the traditional enemies of freedom who, as Marlowe said
of Mephistopheles, intend evil but paradoxically, in the final analysis,
only do good--when those with the backbone to contend against them, use the
energy of their noisy mendacity as the springboard of the revolution for
truth.

Michael A. Hoffman II

(Hoffman is the author of "The Great Holocaust Trial: The Landmark Battle
for Freedom of Speech," $15 postpaid in the US; overseas send US$20).

Check periodically at: http://www.hoffman-info.com/news.html
for forthcoming links to photographs from the Real History, USA conference
which should be online within the next 48 hours.

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:42:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

"jeanne-marie zimmerman"  wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1486
> 1. Irving's Revisionist Conference A Great Success
>
>

Anyone interested in the truth of the Irving/Lipstadt case should wait
for the trial rather than listening to the supposed factual recitations
of the notorious antisemite Michael Hoffman.

This lack of credibility is only worsened by the implied endorsement of
the poster.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Grom -- 84-1; False Names, Slogans and
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:41:06 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Why is it that no one has mentioned the fact that Stalin's third wife, Rosa,
was a Jew and was the sister of Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich, the so called,
"Wolf of the Kremlin, The Soviet Union's Architect of Fear," also a book
written by Kaganovich's nephew, Stuart Kahan.
Michael Snead
  14/ABB
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:54:42 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Poor Snead, apparently wilting under the tiny bit of pressure being
 place on him, reposts an old exchange in the thread!
  >>

x~~~x~~~x~~~x~~~x~~~x~~~x~~~x

The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar.
Proverbs 19:22......Thank you Philip, you liar. he he he he he he

Michael Snead
    14/ABB
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:11:24 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Because your lies need responding to . Your stupidity and ignorance
 make that  much easier. Thank you for that!
  >>

Lies because you say they are? Please........Stupidity, because I disagree
with
you? Hardly...... Ignorance because you do not understand? You are
insecure....
Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just playing.....
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:19:48 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/27/99 11:08:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Anyone interested in the truth of the Irving/Lipstadt case should wait
 for the trial rather than listening to the supposed factual recitations
 of the notorious antisemite Michael Hoffman.

 This lack of credibility is only worsened by the implied endorsement of
 the poster.

 Philip Mathews

  >>
Phil, You disapprove!!!!!!!!! It will be excellent then......anti-Semite
(correct spelling) isn't bad, no worse that wanting sex with a 3 year old
Goyim.
Michael Snead
    14/ABB
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:49:03 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1489
> In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Poor Snead, apparently wilting under the tiny bit of pressure being
>  place on him, reposts an old exchange in the thread!
>   >>

>
> The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a
liar.
> Proverbs 19:22......Thank you Philip, you liar. he he he he he he

Looking to scripture to shore up your pathetic responses I see!  You're
the liar Snead, as you know.

Aren't you going to post the thread a third time?

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:51:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1490
> In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Because your lies need responding to . Your stupidity and ignorance
>  make that  much easier. Thank you for that!
>   >>
>
>
> Lies because you say they are?

Nope, lies because they are lies.

 Please........Stupidity, because I disagree
> with
> you?

Nope, the stupidity you exhibit whenever you open your mouth.

 Hardly...... Ignorance because you do not understand?

Nope, ignorance because you don't know.

 You are
> insecure....

Hehe.

> Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just
playing.....

And having fun!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:53:22 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1491
> In a message dated 9/27/99 11:08:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Anyone interested in the truth of the Irving/Lipstadt case should
wait
>  for the trial rather than listening to the supposed factual
recitations
>  of the notorious antisemite Michael Hoffman.
>
>  This lack of credibility is only worsened by the implied endorsement
of
>  the poster.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   >>
> Phil, You disapprove!!!!!!!!!

Wrong again. This trial will reveal poor Irving as a fool. Do you know
anything about the case?

 It will be excellent then......anti-Semite
> (correct spelling) isn't bad, no worse that wanting sex with a 3 year
old
> Goyim.

No such passage exists. Just another lie from a Jew hater. Learn the
concept of shame, poor fool.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] How to Be A "Revisionist" Scholar
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:55:46 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

How To Be A Revisionist Scholar

        Author: Michael Philips [topcat@igc.apc.org] First-Published:
January 3, 1996 (alt.revisionism)

     Hey lurkers! After browsing through alt.revisionism posts for
awhile, you may already have figured out
     how to become a Holocaust revisionist. It's easy. For those of you
considering such a move, be assured
     that it requires no preparation or scholarly research. Simply
follow the guidelines below, as the
     revisionists on this newsgroup have done, and you'll quickly be on
the road to deluding yourself that
     someone out there takes you seriously, and that you are valiantly
fighting the evil forces of some
     undefined, implausible conspiracy.

     1. Creamed Mush with Fog Sauce -- Never provide evidence for your
assertions. In fact, respond to
     demands for evidence the way Dracula responds to crucifixes. Do
anything you can to avoid it. Throw
     insults. Change the subject. Obfuscate. Laugh derisively. Claim
you already gave the evidence or that
     someone else did. But never provide any evidence yourself (unless
you provide an incomplete or
     incomprehensible citation along with it).

     2. Heads-I-Win-Tails-You-Lose -- Demand that all evidence for the
Holocaust be proved genuine
     (dodging any discussion of what that proof would consist of), and
also demand that all your
     unsubstantiated assertions be proved false. That way, you never
bear any burden of proof. (originally
     posted by Mike Stein)

     3. Hello, I'm a Cremation Expert -- Claim that the 52 Auschwitz
furnaces could not have had the
     capacity to burn 4,756 corpses per day because modern commercial
crematoriums don't have such a
     capacity. When its pointed out to you that there's no comparison
between ordinary commercial
     crematoriums and those built in the camps, for a variety of
reasons -- e.g. coffins were not used, one
     can cremate more than one corpse in a single retort, etc. --
ignore this and repeat the claim.

     4. And I'm a Chemist too! -- Express a series of doubts and claims
about the properties of Zyklon-B,
     the gas used to kill people in Auschwitz gas chambers. For
example, claim that Zyklon-B is not an ideal
     agent for mass gassing, and therefore the Nazis shouldn't have
used it and thus they *didn't* use it.

     Even better, claim that they *couldn't* have used it because the
gas lingering in the chamber after the
     murders would have killed anyone trying to enter the chambers to
remove the corpses. When someone
     explains to you (countless times) that some of the gas chambers
had powerful ventilation systems to
     remove the gas and in other cases people entering wore gas masks,
argue that despite the ventilation
     there would still somehow be enough residual gas in the chambers
to kill people.

     Keep waving a DuPont brochure around in an attempt to ward off
those who know more about
     chemistry than you do. Also claim that ventilating the gas would
cause problems to individuals
     downwind. When someone explains to you that the gas is lighter
than air, just quietly go away for
     awhile or change the subject or complain about a mean word they
may have used.

     5. Sticks and Stones -- If you're being wiped out with evidence
and reasoning you cannot refute, you
     can always take refuge in complaining about the language being
used by your adversaries. For
     example, if they say, "I've already explained that it takes less
gas to kill people than lice, and
     therefore there are fewer cyanide residues remaining on the gas
chamber walls than on the delousing
     chamber walls, you moron," you can respond by complaining about
their use of the word "moron."

     You can actually evade quite a bit of serious discussion by
spending a lot of time condescendingly
     lecturing the newsgroup about their use of trashy language. But
this approach doesn't work very well in
     building credibility. You may view yourself as an arbiter of
social discourse but you'll actually come off
     like a den-mother scurrying around excoriating the little Cub
Scouts to behave themselves.

     6. Oh Sorry, I Ate the Last One -- Claim that Jews and other
prisoners were not intentionally starved,
     that they were victims of food shortages just like everybody else.
When it is pointed out that neither
     the camp guards nor people living in the vicinity of the camps
starved to death, just claim that this does
     not prove there was an intentional starvation policy, and that if
there is no piece of paper with a written
     order to starve people, then no starvation occurred.

     7. The "What's It Mean?" Spiral of Infinity -- Try to keep your
opponents off balance by constantly
     shifting or questioning the definitions of words. For example, if
your opponent states that historians
     generally agree that 1 million Jews were killed in gas chambers at
Auschwitz during the Holocaust, you
     can ask, what do you mean by "historian" or what do you mean by
"Jew" or what do you mean by
     "agree?"

     Alternatively, when confronted with the evidence that Himmler
called for the "ausrotten" of the Jews,
     argue that ausrotten doesn't really mean extermination. When proof
of that definition is provided by
     German dictionaries and German speakers on the newsgroup, just
ignore it.

     8. Now You See It, Now You Don't -- Argue that the gas chambers
never existed because they are not
     still standing. Of course, by this logic, the Mayflower, Carthage,
Jimmy Hoffa, and large portions of the
     Great Wall never existed. When this is pointed out to you, ignore
it.

     9. Kafka Was Here -- Argue that the gas chambers never existed
because there are no photos or
     drawings of them. When you are presented with photos and drawings,
state that they could not possibly
     be actual photos/drawings of gas chambers because the gas chambers
never existed because there are
     no photos/drawings of them because they never existed because . . .

     10. Fun With Math -- Charge the anti-revisionists with playing
numbers games while engaging in them
     yourself. For example, argue that the "holohoaxers" have changed
the estimated number of Jews
     killed at Auschwitz from 4 million to 1 million. When it's pointed
out to you that the 4 million figure was
     supplied by the Soviets and refers to the total number of victims,
not just Jews, and has always been
     considered ridiculously inflated by non-Soviet historians who have
never varied from the 1 million
     figure for Jews, just repeat that the holohaoxers have changed the
number of Jews killed at Auschwitz
     from 4 million to 1 million and that the Holocaust is therefore a
hoax.

     The point of this tactic, of course, is to try to make ALL the
death figures questionable. If 4 million is
     unreliable, then 1 million is likewise unreliable, and you just
keep revising the numbers downward until
     you reach zero, and then - poof! - no Holocaust!

     11. The Great Leap -- This tactic goes like this: If one piece of
testimony about the Holocaust seems
     unreliable, then ALL testimony about the Holocaust is unreliable.
If one Holocaust witness may have
     recanted something on the stand, then all other Holocaust
witnesses are liars. If some camp prisoners
     did not starve to death, then NONE of them starved to death. etc.
But be careful. This is a
     double-edged sword -- someone may use the well-documented lies of
other revisionists to conclude that
     YOU are a liar as well.

     12. But I'm Not Anti-Semitic -- Try to find examples of misdeeds
by an individual Jewish person, then
     imply that this makes all Jews look bad. When you are asked why
you think one Jew represents all
     Jews but that one Christian doesn't represent all Christians,
ignore the question.

     13. Grab Bag of Idiocy -- Here are a few quick claims you can
easily make, although be forewarned
     that they will immediately make you look like an imbecile: a)
Claim that "the Jews" declared war on
     Hitler (whatever that means), and that anything he did to them was
an act of self-defense; b) With
     absolutely zero supporting evidence, claim that the corpses in the
Auschwitz furnaces would have
     exploded, damaging the furnaces and thereby bringing the corpse
cremation figures into question; c)
     Argue that because the Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington DC
has a small model of a gas
     chamber and not a full-scale model, this somehow proves that gas
chambers did not exist during WWII;
     d) Argue that the existence of a brothel in Auschwitz means there
could not have been gas chambers
     there.

     14. If you don't want to look like a total buffoon, there's always
the pseudo-academic, above-the-fray
     approach. With a huge dose of arrogance and superiority, explain
that you are neither a revisionist nor
     any other "label", merely someone with a healthy skepticism about
everything, including Holocaust
     history (ALL of it), and that you are conducting your own research
to determine for yourself whether
     certain Holocaust incidents actually took place. Pretend to be
totally impartial (despite the avalanche
     of Holocaust evidence you would encounter the minute you actually
began any legitimate research), but
     in your posts only question the Holocaust historians' statements,
not revisionists' statements.

     15. Alternatively claim that: a) the Jews in the camps died as a
result of allied bombing; b) the Jews
     weren't killed in the camps but were sent to Russia; and c) the
Jews never even went to the camps
     because the railroad capacity was insufficient. When someone
points out that these are mutually
     exclusive, and that it would be a neat trick for allied bombs in
1944 to result in the deaths of Jews in
     1942, ignore it.

     16. As for the motive behind the Holocaust "hoax", claim that the
Holocaust was invented near the end
     of WWII by people who foresaw the establishment of the state of
Israel, and also foresaw that Israel
     would face years of conflict with its neighbors, and also foresaw
the consequent need for U.S. military
     and financial aid to Israel, and also foresaw possible public
opposition to such aid, and so they invented
     a huge hoax with thousands of phony witnesses and documents so
that those who might oppose the aid
     to Israel would feel sorry for Jews and wouldn't oppose the aid.
When someone points out to you that
     this is sheer idiocy and that acts of genocide do not
automatically turn on the aid spigot to the victims,
     ignore them.

     17. Although all of your arguments will be consistently blown to
smithereens, just wait a few days or
     weeks and then re-post them.

     18. Remember that the revisionist community is peopled mainly by
racists, white-supremacists,
     Israel-bashers, and Nazis. This means that everyone except these
kinds of people will dismiss you. But
     don't let that stop you. Don't let your Fellini-esque, internally
inconsistent, un-researched, hypocritical
     distortions and lies prevent you from continuing to post. After
all, you're fighting for the truth (as you'd
     like it to be).

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] An Introduction to the Einsatzgruppen
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:57:53 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

An Introduction to the Einsatzgruppen

                                                                     an
essay by Yale F. Edeiken

     Like every historical event, the Holocaust evokes certain specific
images. When the Holocaust is
     mentioned most people immediately think of the concentration
camps. They immediately envision
     emaciated victims in dirty striped uniforms staring
incomprehensibly at their liberators or piles of
     corpses, too numerous to bury individually, being bulldozed into
mass graves.

     Those are accurate images. Those horrific scenes are real. They
happened. But they are not all of the
     Holocaust. They are merely the end product of the systematization
of the genocide committed by the
     Third Reich. The reality of that genocide began not in the camps
or in the gas chambers but with four
     small groups of murderers known as the Einsatzgruppen formed by
Himmler and Heydrich immediately
     before the invasion of the Soviet Union. They operated in the
territories captured by the German
     armies during the invasion of the Soviet Union and, with the
cooperation of German army units and
     local militias, murdered over a million men, women, and children.
It was a story that did not end until
     1952 when Otto Ohlendorf, the last surviving commander of an
Einsatzgruppen (Einsatzgruppe D),
     climbed the steps of the gallows to pay for the more than 90,000
murders his command committed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Einsatzgruppen
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:59:00 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Einsatzgruppen An Essay by Yale F. Edeiken

The Einsatzgruppen were four paramilitary units established before the
invasion of the Soviet Union for the
purpose of "liquidating" (murdering) Jews, Romany, and political
operatives of the Communist party. Ultimately
three of these groups (Einsatzgruppen A, B. and C) were attached to
army groups taking part in the invasion. A
fourth group (Einsatzgruppe D) was sent to the Ukraine without being
attached to any army group. All operated in
the territories occupied by the Third Reich on the eastern front. Most
of the crimes perpetrated by the
Eisnsatzgruppen took place in the Ukraine and the Baltic states of
Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania.

After negotiations with the German army conducted between Eduard
Wagner, the Quartermaster of the Army, and
Heydrich, it was agreed that in the front lines the Einsatzgruppen
would be under army control but that in the
operations area and in the rear areas the army's authority would not
extend beyond tactical matters. (Harris, p.
176-7, IMT III, 246,290) Ohlendorf was one of the particiants at ths
meeting. In effect the Einsatzgruppen were
almost always operationally independent taking their orders directly
from Heinrich Himmler and, until his death,
Reinhard Heydrich. While there were plans to establish similar units in
other territories controlled by the Nazis
(Ohlendorf; Nuremberg testimony), these plans were never implemented.

This was not the first time that "Einsatzgruppen" were used by the
Third Reich. During the invasion of Poland in
1939, similar units, also known as "Einsatzgruppen" accompanied the
invading armies and performed similar tasks
such as the arrest or "liquidation" of priests and other Polish
intelligentsia. They were not, however, given a task
of mass murder like that carried out by the Einsatzgruppen during the
invasion of the Soviet Union. The
Einsatzgruppen who took part in the invasion of the Soviet Union were
new units, formed and trained immediately
before that invasion with no organizational history connecting them to
the Einsatzgruppen that existed during the
invasion of Poland.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Purpose of the Einsatzgruppen
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:59:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Purpose of the Einsatzgruppen  An Essay by Yale F. Edieken

The most succinct description of the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen was
given at the trial of Adolph Eichmann by
Dr. Michael Musmanno, Justice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, who
presided over the trial of 23 of the
leaders of the Einsatzgruppen. He stated "The purpose of the
Einsatzgruppen was to murder Jews and deprive
them of their property." SS General Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski
confirmed this at the main Nuremberg Trial
when he testified that "The principal task [of the Einsatzgruppen] was
the annihilation of the Jews, gypsies, and
political commissars." (Taylor, Anatomy, p. 259)

The Einsatzgruppen were given orders directly by Himmler and Heydrich
on several occasions. There were at least
two meetings of the leaders of the Einsatzgruppen in June, 1941 in
which they were briefed as to their duties. In a
third meeting, which probably took place on June 22, 1941, Heydrich
briefed the commanders on the plans for their
operations. Otto Ohlendorf, commander of Einsatzgruppe D and a close
associate of Himmler, confirmed these
orders when he testified at the Nuremberg Trial:

     COL. AMEN: Did you have any other conversations with Himmler
concerning this Order?

     OHLENDORF: Yes, in late summer of 1941 Himmler was in Nikolaiev.
He assembled the leaders and
     the men of the Einsatzkommandos, repeated to them the liquidation
order, and pointed out that the
     leaders and men who were taking part in the liquidation bore no
responsibility for the execution of this
     order. The responsibility was his, alone, and the Fuhrer's.

     COL. AMEN: And you yourself heard that said?

     OHLENDORF: Yes.

Tracing the process by which the orders of the Einsatzgruppen to
eliminate the Jews in the captured territories
were developed is difficult. The process seems to have begun in March,
1941, while the plans for Operation
Barbarossa (the invasion of the Soviet Union ordered by Hitler on
December 18, 1940) were being made.

The decision to use units from the SD (security services) to perform
special political actions was made early in the
planning stages of the invasion. On March 13, 1941, Gen. Keitel, the
commander of the OKW, issued a supplement
to Barbarossa which discussed special tasks, independent of the
military needs of the invasion, that would be
supervised by Himmler. Keitel wrote:

     "In the theater of operations of the Army, the Reichsfuehrer-SS
has special assignments from the
     Fuehrer for the preparation of the political administration, which
special assignments result from the
     final and decisive struggle between two opposed political systems.
In the conduct of these assignments,
     the Reichsfuehrer-SS acts independently and on his own authority.

                                             *   *   *

     "At the beginning of the operations, the German-Soviet Russian
border is to be closed to non-military
     personnel traffic, with the exception of the police units to be
deployed by the Reichsfuehrer-SS on
     order of the Fuehrer."

     "Hitlers Weisungen fuer die Kreigfuehrung" [Hitler's Directives
for the Conduct of the War], edited
     by Walther Hubatsch, Deutscher Taschenbuch Verlag, Frankfurt am
main, 1962, pp. 102-3,
     translation by Gord McFee.

The initial policy was orally communicated to the officers of the
Einsatzgruppen. They were later embodied in the
"Commissar Order" issued by Heydrich Himmler and never revoked.
(Harris, 241) The Commisar Order issued on
July 17, 1941, called for "the separation and further treatment of . .
. . all Jews." (TMWC IV 258-9)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Composition & Victims
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:01:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Composition of the Einsatzgruppen  An Essay by Yale F. Edeiken

There were approximately 600 to 1000 men in each Einsatzgruppe,
although many were support staff. The active
members of the Einsatzgruppen were drawn from various military and
non-military organizations of the Third
Reich. The bulk of the members were drawn from the Waffen-SS, the
military arm of the SS. In Einsatzgruppen A,
for example, the breakdown of active members was:

                                 Waffen-SS:

                                                             340
                                 Gestapo:
                                                              89
                                 SD (security service):
                                                              35
                                 Order Police:
                                                             133
                                 Kripo:
                                                              41
                                     (Taylor, Anatomy, p. 510.)

Each of the Einsatzgruppen were further broken down into operational
subunits known as Einsatzkommandos or
Sonderkommandos.

The Victims of the Einsatzgruppen

The overwhelming proportion of the men, women, and children murdered by
the Einsatzgruppen were Jews. The
Einsatzgruppen also murdered Romany (gypsies), those identified as
functionaries of the Communist Party, those
accused of defying the occupying armies of the Third Reich, and those
accused of being partisans or guerilla
fighters against the invading armies. In all cases the murders were
contrary to accepted law.

Although an exact figure will never be known, approximately 1,500,000
people were murdered by the
Einsatzgruppen. The Einsatzgruppen submitted detailed and specific
reports of their actions to their superiors both
by radio and written communication; these reports were checked against
each other for accuracy at Heydrich's
headquarters. According to those reports approximately 1,500,000 people
were murdered. In evaluating this large
number Justice Michael Musmanno, who presided at the trial of the
Einsatzgruppen wrote:

     One million human corpses is a concept too bizarre and too
fantastical for normal mental
     comprehension. As suggested before, the mention of one million
deaths produces no shock at all
     commensurate with its enormity because to the average brain one
million is more a symbol than a
     quantitative measure. However, if one reads through the reports of
the Einsatzgruppen and observes
     the small numbers getting larger, climbing into ten thousand, tens
of thousands, a hundred thousand
     and beyond, then one can at last believe that this actually
happened -- the cold-blooded, premeditated
     killing of one million human beings.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Best Evidence of the Einsatzgruppen Crimes
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:02:08 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Best Evidence of the Crimes of the Einsatzgruppen

The reports of the Einsatzgruppen which report in detail their murder
and robbery are the best evidence that we
have of what the Einsatzgruppen did. When the U.S. Army captured the
headquarters of the Gestapo they found
hundreds of written reports from the Einsatzgruppen dispassionately
listing their activities. There are two kinds of
reports in the collection. "Activity and Situation Reports" (or
"Situation Reports") were monthly compilations of
the activities of all of the Einsatzgruppen. "Operational Situation
Reports" (or "Operational Reports") were
detailed reports from the various units giving, in precise detail, the
number of murders committed and the property
stolen. These reports were sequentially numbered and all but one of the
Operational Situation Reports were found
in the archives of the Third Reich. The originals of these reports are
currently held by the German government in
the archive at Coblentz where they are available to researchers and
historians.

These reports give us a complete picture of what the Einsatzgruppen
were doing and, since they were approved by
the highest authorities of the Third Reich, represent the best evidence
of the orders given to the Einsatzgruppen.
The reports are shocking both in their scope and the callous attitudes
they display towards mass murder. One of
the judges hearing the appeal in the Stelmokas case had a typical
reaction to the contents of one report: "Colonel
Jaeger reports the executions of thousands of Jews and hundreds of
others in such an impersonal,
matter-of-fact-manner and with such pride that his account leaves one
in a horror-driven state of shock." (100 F.3rd
302, 325)

Additionally direct evidence was presented in two trials. The first was
the trial of Otto Ohlendorf, commander of
Einsatzgruppe D, and 22 other members of the SS charged with
responsibility for the crimes of the Einsatzgruppen.
Justice Michael Musmanno of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court presided at
the trial with legendary equity. He
allowed the defendants every leeway in presenting a defense to their
actions. He found that it was beyond a
reasonable doubt that, based on the evidence presented, that all of the
defendants were guilty as charged. Fourteen
of the defendants were sentenced to death.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Einsatzgruppen Reports are Authentic
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:02:58 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

These Reports are Authentic

The authenticity of the Einsatzgruppen reports has never been seriously
challenged. The original copies of the
reports were found in the archives of the Gestapo when it was searched
by the U.S. Army. A complete set of those
reports were introduced at the trial of 23 members of the
Einsatzgruppen. At this trial witnesses who had created
the reports and who had received them testified. All stated that the
reports were authentic and accurate. Currently
the originals of the reports are held by the German archives at
Coblentz where they are available to scholars and
historians for research. The U.S. National Archives, Yad Vashem, and
the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum have
complete sets of copies of the original documents.

At one point in the Einsatzgruppen Trial, for example, Otto Ohlendorf,
the commander of Einsatzgruppe D was
asked about a report (document L-180) created by Stahlecker the
commander of Einsatzgruppe A. He answered: "I
have read the report of Stahlecker concerning Einsatzgruppe A, in which
Stahlecker asserts that his group killed
135,000 Jews and Communists in the first four months of the program. I
know Stahlecker personally, and I am of
the opinion that the document is authentic."

One of the most important witnesses at the Einsatzgruppen trials was
Kurt Lindow who testified on July 21, 1947.
Lindow was the person responsible for receiving the reports as they
came in and distributed them. As he testified:

     I read most of the reports and passed them on to Dr. Knoblach,
Inspector of the Criminal Police, who
     compiled them at first. The compilation was published daily under
the title 'Operational Situation
     Reports - U.S.S.R.' These reports were stenciled and I corrected
them. Afterwards they were
     mimeographed and distributed. The originals of the reports which
were sent to the Reich Security Main
     Office [RHSA] were mostly signed by the commander of the
Einsatzgruppe or his deputy. . . . . . .

     On the strength of my positions as deputy chief and later on chief
of subdepartment IV A 1, I consider
     myself a competent witness, able to confirm that the 'Operational
Situation Reports -- U.S.S.R." which
     was published by the chief of security police and the security
service under file marked IV A 1 were
     compiled entirely from the original reports of the Einsatzgruppen
reaching my subdepartment by
     wireless or by letter.

     NMT Vol. IV, pp. 99-100.

In his testimony Lindow also verified that the reports in evidence were
authentic and that the initials on the reports
were those of his superiors. After his testimony the defendants in the
Einsatzgruppen trial stipulated to the
authenticity of the reports.

The reports have also been tested in other courts as well and found to
be authentic. The Jaeger Report, for
example, covers the murders committed Einsatzkommando 3 of
Einsatzgruppe A in Lithuania. It was recently used
in the denaturalization trial of Jonas Stelmokas in the U.S. District
Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania in
1995. Stelmokas was accused of being an officer in a Lithuanian militia
unit cooperating with Einsatzgruppen A.
After the challenges to the report by the defense were considered, the
Jaeger Report was found to be authentic and
reliable both by the trial court and an appellate court which
considered an appeal of the case. U.S. v. Stelmokas 100
F.3rd 302 (3rd. Cir.; 1996)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Einsatzgruppen - Other Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:03:40 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

There Is Other Evidence As Well

Other than the evidence provided by the reports, there is direct
testimony from those who committed the crimes
and some of the bystanders who witnessed them. These witnesses
testified at two criminal trials held concerning
the crimes of the Einsatzgruppen. The first of these was the trial of
Otto Ohlendorf and 22 other defendants who
commanded the Einsatzgruppen in 1947. This was a trial before a
Tribunal of five judges at which the U.S. laws of
evidence and substantive law were applied. The second notable trial was
of members of Sonderkommando 4a
(attached to Einsatzgruppe C) for 33,771 murders committed at Babi Yar
on September 29-30, 1941. This trial was
held in Darmstadt pursuant to German law in 1967-8. In both case the
courts heard direct evidence of the crimes
committed and convicted the defendants.

The argument that these trials were "kangaroo courts" or "show trials"
is simply not tenable. Both were
conducted with scrupulous attention to the rights of the accused to a
fair trial. They were allowed to cross-examine
the witnesses, challenge documents, and present evidence on their own
behalf without limitation.

The attention that the courts gave to allowing the defendants to
present a full defense is best illustrated by a
famous incident at the trial of the leaders of the Einsatzgruppen. At
one point in the trial, the prosecution objected
to the argument that one of the defendants had been forced into duty
with an Einsatzgruppe. Justice Musmanno,
the presiding judge, overruled the objection stating:

     The defense can introduce any evidence short of describing the
lives of the penguins in the Antarctic
     and, if the defense can convince me the habits of the penguins are
relevant evidence to the case, then
     the lives and times of those white-fronted creatures can also be
admitted as evidence.

After the trial before the U.S. Tribunal, as a token of appreciation of
the fair and honest manner in which their
clients had been treated, the defense attorneys presented Justice
Musmanno with a statue of a penguin. In
subsequent trials, it was always the request of the defense that the
"penguin rule" be applied. The penguin resided
on a shelf behind Justice Musmanno's desk until his death in 1968.

Despite the wide latitude given to them, at neither trial did the
defendants claim that the massacres did not happen
or challenge the authenticity of the reports. The defenses they
presented to the charges against them was that they
were forced into service with the Einsatzgruppen or, as did Otto
Ohlendorf, that they were just following orders. All
were convicted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Crimes of the Einsatzgruppen
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:04:22 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Crimes of the Einsatzgruppen

As Justice Musmanno stated the Einsatzgruppen murdered over well over a
million men, women, and children and
stole their property. The only possible interpretation of the reports
that the Einsatzgruppen made to Heydrich is
that the majority of those men, women, and children were murdered and
robbed because they were Jewish. There is
no other reason evident from the reports or the defenses that were
presented at the various trials.

One of the most notable of these reports is the "Jaeger Report" which
details the murders committed by
Einsatzkommandos 8 and 3, attached to Einsatzgruppe A in the
Vilna-Kaunas area of Lithuania from July 4, 1941
through November 25, 1941. This lengthy report describes the murder of
over 130,000 people in that short period
of time. This report consists of six sheets listing the murders of
Einsatzkommandos 8 and 3 and concluding: "Today
I can confirm that our objective, to solve the Jewish problem for
Lithuania, has been achieved by EK 3. In
Lithuania there are no more Jews, apart from Jewish workers and their
families." Most of the report consists of
entries such as:

  29.10.41
            Kauen-F.IX
                        2,007 Jews, 2,290 Jewesses, 4,273 Jewish
children (mopping up ghetto of superfluous Jews)
   3.11.41
            Lazdjai
                        485 Jews, 511 Jewesses, 539 Jewish children
  15.11.41
            Wilkowski
                        36 Jews, 48 Jewesses, 31 Jewish children
  25.11.41
            Kauen-F.IX
                        1.159 Jews, 1,600 Jewesses, 175 Jewish children
(resettlers from Berlin, Munich, and
                        Frankfurt am main)
                           Jaeger report Sheet 5, which contains 11
such entries.

The reports also give detailed information about the money and other
valuables stolen from the victims. The scope
of these activities is illustrated by "Operational Report No. 73" dated
September 4, 1941 (NO-2844) and
"Operational Report No. 133" dated November 14, 1941 (NO-2825). Both of
these reports describe the activities
of Einsatzkommando 8, a subunit of one of the Einsatzgruppen. The first
of these reports states "On the occasion
of a purge at Tsherwon 125,880 rubels were found on 139 liquidated Jews
and were confiscated. This brings the
total of the money confiscated by Einsatzkommando 8 to 1,510,399
rubels." Two months later the same sub-unit
was able to report that they had stolen an additional million rubels:
"During the period covered by this report,
Einsatzkommando 8 confiscated a further 491,705 rubles as well as 15
gold rubles. They were entered into the
ledgers and passed to the Administration of Einsatzkommando 8. The
total amount of rubels so far secured by
Einsatzkommando 8 now amounts to 2,511,226 rubels."

Nor was this thievery limited to their victim's money. Watches, jewelry
and even clothing were even plundered.
One particularly callous act of murder was described by Justice
Musmanno in his decision:

     One of the defendants related how during the winter of 1941 he was
ordered to obtain fur coats for his
     men, and that since the Jews had so much winter clothing, it would
not matter so much to them if they
     gave up a few fur coats. In describing the execution which he
attended, the defendant was asked
     whether the victims were undressed before the execution, he
replied: "No, the clothing wasn't taken --
     this was a fur coat procurement operation."

     Judgment, p. 36.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Other Participants - The Victims
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:05:24 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Other Participants

The Einsatzgruppen did not act alone. They had help. The Einsatzgruppen
could call on the Wehrmacht for
assistance but far more important were local militia groups willing to
cooperate in the massacres. At Babi Yar
where 33,771 Jews were murdered on September 29-30, 1941, there were
two Ukrainian "kommandos" assisting
Sonderkommando 4a. In Lithuania Operational Report 19 (July 11, 1941)
states that "We have retained
approximately 205 Lithuanian partisans as a Sonderkommando, sustained
them and deployed them for executions
as necessary even outside the area." In the Ukraine the Einsatzgruppen
frequently welcomed the participation of
local militia both because they needed the help of these auxiliaries
but because they hoped to involve the locals in
the pogrom they were conducting. (Operational Report 81, from
Einsatzkommando 6, September 12, 1941)

There are many known instances of these local militias assisting the
Einsatzgruppen. During the "Gross Aktion" of
October 28-29, 1941, at Kaunas in Lithuania during which 9,200 Jews
were murdered, Lithuanian militia worked
with the Einsatzgruppen. (100 F.3rd at 308) Other examples are Zhitomir
on September 18, 1941, in the Ukraine
where 3,145 Jews were murdered with the assistance of Ukrainian militia
(Operational Report 106) and Korosten
where Ukrainian militia rounded up 238 Jews for liquidation
(Operational Report 80). At times the assistance was
more active. Operational Report 88, for example, reports that on
September 6, 1941, 1,107 Jewish adults were shot
while the Ukrainian militia unit assisting them liquidated 561 Jewish
children and youths.

In many cases the militia that assisted the Einsatzgruppen were paid
from the money and valuables stolen from the
victims.

The Victims of the Murders Were Not Partisans

The reports and the testimony at the various trials tell us that any
claim the Einsatzgruppen were dealing with
"partisans" is a misrepresentation of history.

Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski -- the SS general (his rank was equivalent
to the U.S. rank of lieutenant general) in
charge of all anti-partisan warfare on the eastern front -- was a
witness before the IMT at Nuremberg. Not only did
he testify that the purpose of the Einsatzgruppen was the
"annihilation" of Jews, Romany, and Communist political
operatives but that the Einsatzgruppen were not involved in
antipartisan activity. When asked which units were
used for antipartisan activity, he responded: "For antipartisan
activities formations of the Waffen-SS, of the
Ordungspolizei [regular "order keeping" police], and, above all, of the
Wehrmacht were used." (Taylor, Anatomy,
p. 259) The reports of the Einsatzgruppen are consistent with
Bach-Zelewski's testimony. In most of the murder
victims are described by class and actions against partisans are
specifically described. In all cases "partisans" and
"Communists" are listed separately from "Jews."

Many of the reports detail the victims by age and sex. We can see from
these entries that a majority of the victims
were women and children. It is obvious that a report of the murder of
"2,007 Jews; 2,920 Jewesses, 4,273 Jewish
children (mopping up ghetto of superfluous Jews)" on October 29, 1941
or "1,159 Jews, 1,600 Jewesses, 175
Jewish children (resettlers from Berlin, Munich, and Frankfurt am
main)" [Jaeger Report; sheet 5] cannot
accurately be characterized as describing "partisans."

When put on trial for his life Otto Ohlendorf, Commander of
Einsatzgruppen D, did not use the excuse that the
victims were "partisans." Instead he gave the Court a far different
rationalization for the murder of the children:

     I believe that it is very simple to explain, if one starts with
the fact that this order did not only try to
     achieve a temporary security (for Germany) but also a permanent
security. For that reason, the
     children were people who would grow up and surely, being the
children of parents who had been killed,
     would constitute a danger no smaller than that of their parents.

When he made this statement Ohlendorf was not speaking just as an
individual and a dedicated national socialist;
he was repeating the statements of his superior, Heinrich Himmler.
Himmler and Ohlendorf were close associates
and, in fact, were travelling together when they were captured after
the collapse of the Third Reich. In his famous
speech to a gathering of SS officers at Posen on October 6, 1943,
Himmler made comments remarkably similar to
those of Ohlendorf:

     We came to the question: what to do with the women and children? I
decided to find a clear solution
     here as well. I did not consider myself justified to exterminate
the men -- that is, kill them or allow them
     to be killed -- and allow the avengers of our sons and grandsons
in the form of their children to grow up.
     The difficult resolve had to be taken to make this race disappear
from the earth.

     (Translation by Gord McFee.)

Another problem with justifying the murders as actions against
"partisans" is that Jewish partisan movements did
not even exist in the most populous regions until the Einsatzgruppen
began murdering Jews. In Lithuania, for
example, the Jaeger Report covers the period from July 4, 1941 through
November 25, 1941 including what is
known as the "Gross Aktion" which was conducted with the help of
Lithuanian militia in October, 1941. The Jewish
resistance movement did not begin until December 31, 1941, with a
manifesto promulgated by Abner Kovner. Prior
to that time, Jewish resistance was ruthlessly suppressed by the Jewish
leader, Jacob Gens, who went so far as to
turn Yitzhak Witenberg, the leading proponent of Jewish resistance,
over to the Gestapo. (Hilberg, PVB, page
180-1) Thus, Jewish resistance in Lithuania was, in reality, a reaction
to the murders of the Einsatzgruppen.

The reactions of the Jews of Lithuania was not unique. There were
similar reactions in many parts of the Ukraine
where the majority of the Jews caught up in the German invasion of the
Soviet Union lived. In this region, for
example, a German inspector reported to the Chief of the Industrial
Armament Department:

     The attitude of the Jewish population was anxious -- obliging from
the beginning. They tried to avoid
     everything that might displease the German administration. That
they hated the German
     administration and army inwardly goes without saying and cannot be
surprising. However, there is no
     proof that Jewry as a whole or even to a greater part was
implicated in acts of sabotage. Surely, there
     were some terrorists or saboteurs among them just as among the
Ukrainians. But is cannot be said that
     the Jews as such represented a danger to the German armed forces.
The output produced by Jews who,
     of course, were prompted by nothing but the feeling of fear, were
satisfactory to the troops and the
     German administration.

     Exhibit 3257 PS (Einsatzgruppen Trial).

Finally it should be noted that "partisan" or "guerilla" forces are,
under the Hague Convention, to be treated as
POWs. Germany was signer of this Convention and the out-of-hand killing
of "partisans" is murder.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Reports Not Exaggerated - Men Not "Overreacting"
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:06:41 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

We Know That These Reports Were Not Exaggerated

Otto Ohlendorf, the commander of Einsatzgruppen D, was asked during the
Nuremberg Trial why the records of his
Einsatzgruppen report fewer victims than the other groups. He claimed
that some of the other commanders
exaggerated the number of murders they committed. Ohlendorf could not,
however, explain these exaggerations.

The main problem with accepting Ohlendorf's explanation was the system
Heydrich established to make sure that
the reports were accurate. The reports were first sent by radio and
then by written dispatch signed by the
commander of the Einsatzgruppe or his deputy. Since the two methods of
reporting were used a check on each
other, exaggeration or inflation of the reports would have been quite
difficult. While it would have been possible to
exaggerate the numbers in a single report, it would have been almost
impossible to do so on a regular basis.

If, dispite Heydrich's system of double-checking the reports from the
field, the reports were exaggerated we must
ask why. The only reason for exaggeration would have been for the
commanders to impress superiors with the
efficiency of their performance. As anybody reading the reports can
see, the reports quite specifically state that the
primary activity of Einsatzgruppen was the extermination of the
civilian Jewish community. The necessary
implication of any argument that the reports were "exaggerated" is that
the conduct that is reported was condoned
and encouraged by the superior officers -- Himmler and Heydrich -- as
an execution of the orders that were given
to the Einsatzgruppen and the policy behind those orders.

We Know That These Men Were Not "Overreacting"

The reports of the Einsatzgruppen indicate that the execution of Jews
was a consistent pattern rather than
occasional incidents. While some of the reports describe actions taken
against "partisans" those are the exception.
Many of the Operational Reports describe nothing but the murder of
civilians, the overwhelming majority of which
were Jews or the money and valuables "confiscated."

No action was ever taken by the SS higher command to stop this pattern
of murder even though they were directly
informed of the actions being taken at the front and meticulously
catalogued them in their own records. One the
contrary, according to SS-General Bach-Zelewski, the officer in charge
of antipartisan warfare in the Soviet Union,
the specific orders of the highest authorities of the Third Reich were
that soldiers who committed offenses against
the civilian population were not to be tried or punished by the
military courts. (Taylor, Anatomy, p. 259) In fact
many members of the Einsatzgruppen were given the highest awards for
valor available to soldiers of the Third
Reich for their murder for their murder and for their robbery. Paul
Blobel the commander of Sonderkommando 4a,
who was responsible for the massacres at Babi Yar was given the Iron
Cross, Germany's highest award for valor.
(Dawidowicz, What, p. 73)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] The Methods of the Einsatzgruppen
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:07:20 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Methods of the Einsatzgruppen

The Einsatzgruppen shot people. It's as simple as that. Using various
pretexts they rounded up their victims,
transported them to a central killing ground and shot them.

At Babi Yar the Jews of Kiev were informed by placards posted around
the city by Ukrainian militia for Jews to
assemble at 8:00 a.m. on September 29, 1941, at a cemetery near a
railroad siding for "resettlement." They were
told to bring with them food, warm clothing, documents, money, and
valuables. (Dawidowicz, What, 103-4). The
scene was described by one officer at his trial in 1967. He stated "It
was like a mass migration . . . the Jews sang
religious songs on the way." At the railroad siding their food and
belongings were taken from them and:

     Then the Germans began shoving the Jews into new, narrower lines.
They moved very slowly. After a
     long walk, they came to a passageway formed by German soldiers
with truncheons and police dogs.
     The Jews were whipped through. The dogs went at those who fell but
the pressure uof the surging lines
     behind was irresistible, and the weak and injured were trod
underfoot.

     Bruised and bloodied, numbed by the incomprehensibility of their
fate, the Jews emerged onto a grassy
     clearing. They had arrived at Babi Yar; ahead of them lay the
ravine. The ground was strewn with
     clothing. Ukrainian militiamen, supervised by Germans, ordered the
Jews to undress. Those who
     balked, who resisted, were assaulted, their clothes ripped off.
Naked bleeding people were everywhere.
     Screams and hysterical laughter filled the air.

     Dawidowicz, "What is the Use of Jewish History?" pp. 106-107

After this brutal processing, the victims were lined up at edge of the
ravine and gunned down by teams of machine
gunners. By the time they were finished on Spetember 30, 1941, 33,700
people had been killed.

Otto Ohlendorf testified about the methods used both at his own trial
and the trial of the leaders of the Third Reich
at Nuremberg. At Nuremberg he told the court that Jews were gathered
for mass murders "on the pretext that they
were to be resettled." He then told the Tribunal: "After the
registration the Jews were collected at one place; and
from there they were later transported to the place of execution, which
was, as a rule, an antitank ditch or natural
excavation. The executions were carried out in a military manner, by
firing squads under command." Not all of the
groups committed their murders with the military precision of
Ohlendorf's. As he testified "Some of the unit leaders
did not carry out liquidations in the military manner, but killed the
victims singly by shooting them in the back of the
neck."

After December, 1941, the nazis experimented with vans designed by Dr.
Becker using lethal gas, exhaust from the
motors. Not only was this method slow but, according to Otto Ohlendorf,
it was not popular with his men because
"the unloading of the corpses was an unnecessary mental strain." Almost
all of the victims of these experiments
were women and children and, throughout the Einsatzgruppen's reign of
terror, shooting was the primary means of
execution.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Shooting Was Not the Only Method
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:08:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Shooting Was Efficient, But Other Methods Were Tried

Himmler was a chicken as well as a chicken farmer. In July or August,
1941, Himmler visited Einsatzgruppe B
where he witnessed a mass shooting at Minsk. An eyewitness describing
what happened during Himmler's visit to
Minsk while watched the killing of a group of one hundred Jews:

     As the firing started, Himmler became more and more nervous. At
each volley, he looked down at the
     ground .... The other witness was Obergruppenfuehrer von dem
Bach-Zelewski...Von dem Bach
     addressed Himmler: "Reichsfuehrer, those were only a
hundred....Look at the eyes of the men in this
     commando, how deeply shaken they are. Those men are finished
["fertig"] for the rest of their lives.
     What kind of followers are we training here? Either neurotics or
savages."

     Arad, "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka", p. 8.

In reaction to the experience of watching 100 human beings murdered in
this fashion, Himmler ordered that a more
"humane" method of execution be found. (Reitlinger SS 183) Otto
Ohlendorf explained in his testimony at
Nuremberg "That was a special order from Himmler to the effect that
women and children were not to be exposed
to the mental strain of the executions; and thus the men of the
kommandos, mostly married men, should not be
compelled to aim at women and children."

This order was first implemented with gas vans designed by Dr. Becker.
Later the terrible extermination camps,
where millions of people were gassed and starved, were established.

The infamous extermination camps were set up shortly after Himmler's
visit to Minsk. The first of these was
Chelmo which began gassing Jews and others on December 8, 1941.
Treblinka, Sobribor, and Madjadek followed in
the spring of 1942. Additionally the most famous extermination camp,
Auschwitz, began experimenting with
Zyclon-B in September, 1941. While mass gassings were conducted at
Auschwitz in the spring of 1942, the real
work of mass extermination started with the operation of "Bunker 2" on
July 4, 1942 (D-VP 305)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] No Justification for Einsatzgruppen Crimes
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:08:57 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

There Is No Way to Rationalize and Justify These Crimes

There are some who would try to deny or justify the murders committed
by the Einsatzgruppen. The most benign
explanation for this denial was given by Justice Michael Musmanno -- an
experienced judge and hardened combat
veteran -- who presided at the trial of the Einsatzgruppen. Shocked and
sickened by the evidence which he heard,
Justice Musmanno wrote:

     One reads and reads these accounts of which here we can give only
a few excerpts and yet there
     remains the instinct to disbelieve, to question, to doubt. There
is less of a mental barrier in accepting
     the weirdest stories of supernatural phenomena, as for instance,
water running up hill and trees with
     roots reaching toward the sky, than in taking at face value these
narratives which go beyond the
     frontiers of human cruelty and savagery. Only the fact that the
reports from which we have quoted
     came from the pens of men within the accused organizations can the
human mind be assured that all
     this actually happened. The reports and the statements of the
defendants themselves verify what
     otherwise would be dismissed as the product of a disordered
imagination.

     Judgement of the Tribunal, p. 50.

The crimes happened. No honest person can look you in the eye and state
otherwise. Why would someone deny
these crimes, justify these crimes, rationalize these crimes?

You tell me.

Bibliographical Note

There are many books about the Holocaust but few that specifically deal
with the crimes of the Einsatzgruppen.
One of the best of these, The Eichmann Kommandos by Michael Musmanno is
long out of print and quite rare.
Another rare but excellent analytical work with much background is
Ronald Headland's Messages of Murder, 1992.
The reports of the Einsatzgruppen are listed and analyzed in The
Einsatzgruppen Reports by Yitzak Arad, Schmuel
Spector, and Schmuel Krakowski. One of the best references for the
evidence as presented at the Nuremberg trial
is Tyranny on Trial: the Evidence at Nuremberg by Whitney Harris, a
prosecutor at the trial. To put the activities
of the Einsatzgruppen in perspective The Holocaust by Martin Gilbert
and Perpetrators, Victims, Bystanders by
Raul Hilberg are both recommended. The classic study of the SS is The
SS: Alibi of a Nation by Gerald Reitlinger.
The story of Babi Yar, both as a massacre committed by the
Einsatzgruppen and as an attempt by the Soviet Union
to "forget" that the crime was directed against Jews, can be found in
What is the Use of Jewish History? by Lucy
Dawidowicz.

One of the best sources of information on the Einsatzgruppen is on the
Internet in the form of "The Einsatzgruppen
Page" maintained by Ken Lewis at http://www.nizkor.org/~klewis/. It
contains many of the reports, the complete
text of Justice Musmanno's decision at the Einsatzgruppen trial, and
other valuable material.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:09:19 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 8:53:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1490
 > In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 > philnancy@aol.com writes:
 >
 > << Because your lies need responding to . Your stupidity and ignorance
 >  make that  much easier. Thank you for that!
 >   >>
 >
 >
 *********Lies because you say they are?


 Nope, lies because they are lies.

*******Yep, Because you say they are. You must be an only child.

  Please........Stupidity, because I disagree with you?

 Nope, the stupidity you exhibit whenever you open your mouth.

********Philip, surely you jest.....You can hear what I type? Or do you
believe that when I open my mouth words appear on my screen? Keep in mind I
haven't installed the  Dragon Point and Speak program yet. The problem you
have is more acute than what I suspected. What is that mental disease you
Jews pass through heredity?

 ****Hardly...... Ignorance because you do not understand?
 Nope, ignorance because you don't know.

*************I know, you hear voices when you read my typing.

  You are insecure....

************I'm not hearing voices, Philip

 > Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just
 playing.....

 And having fun!
 Philip Mathews


***** I am so glad you can humor yourself with those little voices that you
hear. I am having fun, too, but I am hearing no voices.
Michael Snead
  14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:33:02 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1509
> In a message dated 9/28/99 8:53:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
>  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1490
>  > In a message dated 9/27/99 10:27:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>  > philnancy@aol.com writes:
>  >
>  > << Because your lies need responding to . Your stupidity and
ignorance
>  >  make that  much easier. Thank you for that!
>  >   >>
>  >
>  >
>  *********Lies because you say they are?
>
>
>  Nope, lies because they are lies.
>
> *******Yep, Because you say they are. You must be an only child.

Nope. And they are lies.

>
>   Please........Stupidity, because I disagree with you?
>
>  Nope, the stupidity you exhibit whenever you open your mouth.
>
> ********Philip, surely you jest.....You can hear what I type? Or do
you
> believe that when I open my mouth words appear on my screen?

Both.

Keep in mind I
> haven't installed the  Dragon Point and Speak program yet.

You should. Any desperate attempt on your part would help.

 The problem you
> have is more acute than what I suspected.

I don't have a problem, you do. You're a liar and a hater.

 >What is that mental disease you
> Jews pass through heredity?

See, only an ignorant, mindless, racist would say something so stupid.
You must be wearing your  colander today!

>
>  ****Hardly...... Ignorance because you do not understand?
>  Nope, ignorance because you don't know.
>
> *************I know, you hear voices when you read my typing.

And I know your ignorance extends to figures of speech. Now if you
could only manage to think while typing or speaking...

>
>   You are insecure....
>
> ************I'm not hearing voices, Philip

You should thank God.

>
>  > Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just
>  playing.....
>
Oops. Snead left something out!! He mistakenly (he knows he can't claim
a typo) used "your" for "you're", which I corrected. He snipped it
because he's getting increasingly sensitive.

>  And having fun!
>  Philip Mathews
>
>
> ***** I am so glad you can humor yourself with those little voices
that you
> hear.

It's you who provides the humor!

 >I am having fun, too, but I am hearing no voices.

Including your own, for which you should be thankful!
But if you can't manage something better than this I'm going to get
bored.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:51:36 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 8:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Wrong again. This trial will reveal poor Irving as a fool. Do you know
 anything about the case?

 *********What do you want to know about it Philip?


*****It will be excellent then......anti-Semite (correct spelling) isn't bad,
no worse than wanting sex with a 3 year old Goyim.

 No such passage exists. Just another lie from a Jew hater. Learn the
 concept of shame, poor fool.
 Philip Mathews

******Did I even say there was a passage? Hearing little voices of guilt are
we Philip? I made a statement and you turned it into a passage...a
passage...a passage...OH! You mean the Talmud!!! You know bud, you might seek
counciling for your problem it seems to be getting worse. For you to be so
defensive about nothing is kind of strange too. Your concepts matter little
to me, Philip, just like the cult that you  defend.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:54:58 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

LIE YOUR ASS OFF.

Michael Stephen Snead
           14/ABB
              ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Russian Revolution Revealed in 1844
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:00:44 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    In his novel Coningsby (London, 1844), Disraeli drew a picture form the
life of the Jews ruling the world from behind the thrones as graphic as
anything in the Protocols of Nilus.

    Many believe, and it has been proved to most, Coningsby was a plagiarism
of a Byzantine novel of the XVIIth century. The passage in which Rothschild
(Sidonia) describes this is as follows: "If I followed my own impulse, I
would remain here," said Sidonia. "Can anything be more absurd than that a
nation should apply to an individual (or group of Jews) to maintain its
credit, and with its credit, its existence as an empire and its comfort as a
people; and that individual one to whom its laws deny the proudest rights of
citizenship, the privilege of sitting in its senate and of holding land; for
though I have been rash enough to buy several estates, my own opinion is that
by the existing law of England, an Englishman of Jewish faith cannot possess
the soil.' 'But surely it would be easy to repeal a law so illiberal.'

     'Oh! as for illiberality, I have no objection to it if it be an element
of power. Eschew political sentimentality. What I contend is that if you
permit men to accumulate property, and they use that permission to a great
extent, power is inseparable from that property, and it is in the last degree
impolitic to make it in the interest of any powerful class to oppose the
institutions under which they live.

    The Jews, for example, independent of the capital qualities for
citizenship which they possess in their industry, temperance, and energy and
vivacity of mind, are a race essentially monarchical, deeply religious and
shrinking themselves from converts as from a calamity...The Tories lose an
important election at a critical moment; 'Its the Jews who come forward to
vote against them. The Church is alarmed at the scheme of a latitudinarian
university, and learns with relief that funds are not forthcoming for its
establishment; a Jew immediately advances and endows it...every generation
they must become more powerful and more dangerous to the society which is
hostile to them. Do you think that the quiet humdrum persecution of a
decorous representative of an English university can crush those who have
successively baffled the Pharaos, Nebuchadnezzar, Rome, and the feudal ages?

    The fact is you cannot destroy a Pure Race of White Organization. (Here
is the secret, and a Rothschild is telling us why the Jews are trying to
destroy the White Race. It is because the Jews know, if the race is kept
pure, it cannot be destroyed; because it will be protected by Almighty God
and the Lord Jesus Christ!.) It is a physiological fact; a simple law of
nature, which has baffled Egyptian and Assyrian kings, Roman emperors, and
Christian inquisitors. No penal laws, no physical tortures, can effect that a
superior race should be absorbed in an inferior, or be destroyed by it. The
mixed persecuting races disappear, the pure persecuted race remains. And at
this moment in spite of centuries, or tens of centuries, of degradation, the
Jewish mind exercises a vast influence on the affairs of Europe. I speak of
their laws, which you still obey; of their literature, with which your minds
are saturated; but of the living Jewish intellect.

     You never observe a great intellectual movement in Europe in which the
Jews do not greatly participate. The first Jesuits were Jews; that mysterious
Russian diplomacy which so alarms Western Europe is organized and principally
carried on by Jews; that mighty revolution (of 1848) which will be in fact
[be followed] by a second an greater Reformation, and of which so little is
as yet known in England, is entirely developing under the auspices of Jews,
who almost monopolize the professorial chairs of Germany.

     Neander the founder of Spiritual Christianity, and who is Regius
Professor of Divinity in the University of Berlin, is a Jew. Benary, equally
famous and in the same university, is a Jew. Wehl, the Arabic Professor of
Heidelberg, is a Jew. Years ago, when I was in Palestine, I met a German
student who was accumulating materials for the history of Christianity and
studying the genius of the place; a modest and learned man. It was Wehl; then
unknown, since become the first Arabic scholar of the day, and the author of
the life of Mahomet.

     But for the German professors of this race, their name is legion. I
think there are more than ten at Berlin alone. I told you just now that I was
going up to town tomorrow, because I always made it a rule to interpose when
affairs of state were on the carpet. Otherwise, I never interfere. I hear of
peace and war in the newspapers, but I am never alarmed, except when I am
informed that the sovereigns want treasure; then I know that monarchs are
serious.

     A few years back we were applied to by Russia. Now there has been no
friendship between the Court of St. Petersburg and my family. It has Dutch
connections which have generally supplied it; and our representations in
favor of the Polish Jews, a numerous race, but the most suffering and
degraded of all the tribes, have not been very agreeable to the Czar. However
circumstances drew to an approximation between the Romanoffs and the
Sidonias.

    I resolved to go myself to St. Petersburg. I had on my arrival an
interview with the Russian Minister of Finance, Count Cancrin; I beheld the
son of a Lithuanian Jew. The loan was connected with the affairs of Spain; I
resolved on repairing to Spain from Russia. I traveled without intermission.
I had an audience immediately on my arrival with the Spanish minister Senior
Mendizabel; I behold one like myself, the some of Nuevo Christiano, a Jew of
Aragon.

    In consequence of what transpired at Madrid, I went straight to Paris to
consult the President of the French Council; I beheld the son of a French
Jew, a hero, an imperial marshal and very properly so, for who should be
military heroes if not those of the Jewish faith.'  'And is Soult a Jew?'
'Yes, and others of the French marshals, and the most famous Massna, for
example; his real name was Mannasheh: but to my anecdote.

    The consequence of our consultations was that some northern power should
be applied to in a friendly and meditative capacity. We fixed on Prussia, and
the President of the Council made an application to the Prussian minister,
who attended a few days after our conference. Count Arnim entered the
cabinet, and I beheld a Prussian Jew. So you see, my dear Coningsby, that The
World is Governed by Very Different Personages from what is imagined by those
who are not behind the scenes.' (pp. 249-252)

    Rollin, Pierred Leroux, and a group of socialists, among whom was Maurice
Joly. His father was Philippe Lambert Joly, born at Dieppe, Attorney-General
of the Jura under Louis-Philippe for ten years. His mother Florentine Corbara
Courtois, was the daughter of Laurent Courtois, paymaster-general of Corsica,
who had an inveterate hatred of Napoleon I. Maurice Joly was born in 1831 at
Lons-le-Saulnier and educated at Dijon: there he had begun his law studies,
but left for Paris in 1849 to secure a post in the Ministry of the Interior
under M. Chevreau and just before the coup d'etat.

    He did not finish his law studies till 1860. [Committed suicide in 1878].
Joly, some thirty years younger than Cremieux, with an inherited hatred of
the Bonapartes, seemed to have fallen very largely under his influence.
Through Cremieux, Joly became acquainted with communists and their writings.
Though, until 1871 when his ambition for a government post turned him into a
violent communist, he had not in 1864 gone beyond socialism, he was so
impressed with the way they presented their arguments that he could not, if
the chance were offered, refrain from imitating it. And this chance came in
1864-1865, when his hatred of Napoleon, whetted by Cremieux, led him to
publish anonymously in Brussels the Dialogues aux Enfers entre Machiavelli et
Montesquieu. In this work he tells us, 'Machiavelli represents the policy of
Might, while Montesquieu stands for that of Right: Machiavelli will be
Napoleon, who will himself describe his abominable policy.' It was natural
that he should choose the Italian Machiavelli to stand for Bonaparte, and the
Frenchman Montesquieu, for the ideal statesman: it was equally natural that
he should put in the mouth of Machiavelli some of the same expressions which
Venedey had put in it, and which Joly had admired. His own view was:
'Socialism seems to me one of the forms of a new life for the people
emancipated from the traditions of the old world. I accept a great many of
the solutions offered by socialism; but I reject communism, either as a
social factor, or as a political institution. Communism is but a school of
socialism. In politics, I understand extreme means to gain one's ends, in
that at least, I am a Jacobin."

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Irving's Revisionist Conference
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:10:35 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1510
> In a message dated 9/28/99 8:54:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Wrong again. This trial will reveal poor Irving as a fool. Do you
know
>  anything about the case?
>
>  *********What do you want to know about it Philip?

As I suspected, you know nothing about it.

>
>
> *****It will be excellent then......anti-Semite (correct spelling)
isn't bad,
> no worse than wanting sex with a 3 year old Goyim.
>
>
>  No such passage exists. Just another lie from a Jew hater. Learn the
>  concept of shame, poor fool.
>  Philip Mathews
>
> ******Did I even say there was a passage?

Then what were you referring to ? More ignorance?

Hearing little voices of guilt are
> we Philip?

I already correct your ignorance on figures of speech. Look it up if
you're still confused.

I made a statement and you turned it into a passage...a
> passage...a passage...OH! You mean the Talmud!!!

Yup, just as I suspected!

You know bud, you might seek
> counciling

That's counseling Snead!!!

for your problem it seems to be getting worse. For you to be so
> defensive about nothing is kind of strange too.

Pointing out a Jew hating smear is not being defensive poor Snead.

 Your concepts matter little
> to me, Philip, just like the cult that you  defend.

I defend the truth, it is you who are in a cult.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:11:32 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1511
> LIE YOUR ASS OFF.

Hehehe. How embarrassing for you!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holocaust Denial 1
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:14:43 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Holocaust Denial

            One of the most notable anti-Semitic propaganda movements
to develop over the past two
            decades has been the organized effort to deny or minimize
the established history of Nazi
            genocide against the Jews. In the United States, the
movement has been known in recent years
            primarily through the publication of editorial-style
advertisements in college campus newspapers.
            The first of these ads claimed to call for "open debate on
the Holocaust"; it purported to question
            not the fact of Nazi anti-Semitism, but merely whether this
hatred resulted in an organized killing
            program. A more recent ad has questioned the authenticity
of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial
            Museum in Washington, DC. These ads have been published in
several dozen student
            newspapers on campuses across the country.

            Similar propaganda has established a beachhead on the
computer Internet. In addition to creating
            their own home pages, Holocaust deniers have sometimes
"crashed" the sites of legitimate
            Holocaust and Jewish discussion groups in a blatant effort
at anti, Jewish provocation and
            self-promotion. Additionally, Holocaust deniers have
advertised their Web sites by purchasing
            innocuous-sounding, inconspicuous classified ads in college
and community newspapers.

            These paid advertisements and Internet activities have been
a national phenomenon since 1991.
            Though there is no evidence that they have persuaded large
numbers of students to doubt the
            settled record of events which comprise the Holocaust,
their appearance has generated acrimony
            and has frequently caused friction between Jewish and
non-Jewish students.

            This is precisely the intent of the Holocaust deniers: by
attacking the facts of the Holocaust, and
            by framing this attack as merely an unorthodox point of
view, their propaganda insinuates subtle
            but hateful anti-Semitic beliefs of Jews as exploiters of
non-Jewish guilt and Jews as controllers of
            academia or the media. These beliefs, in fact, bear
comparison to the preachings which brought
            Hitler to power in prewar Germany.

            This pamphlet has been designed to provide a brief summary
of the propaganda campaign known
            as Holocaust "revisionism," or Holocaust denial. What
follows is (1) a "Q&A" description of the
            movement, its history, and its leading activists, as well
as a review of legal and scholarly
            responses to this propaganda; (2) a summary of the
movement's most common allegations, with
            brief factual responses, and (3) a selection of quotes by
the leading propagandists, demonstrating
            their anti-Semitic and pro-Nazi agendas.

            It is highly unlikely that this report will dissuade the
Holocaust deniers from their mendacious and
            hateful campaign. But this information should provide
students and educators with the facts to
            make informed decisions and vigorous responses to these
bigoted lies.

            (For further details concerning the Holocaust denial
movement, see also the Anti-Defamation
            League publication, Hitler's Apologists: The Anti-Semitic
Propaganda of 'Holocaust
            Revisionism')

            The Movement: What You Should Know

            1. What is Holocaust denial?

            Holocaust denial is a propaganda movement active in the
United States, Canada and Western
            Europe which seeks to deny the reality of the Nazi regime's
systematic mass murder of 6 million
            Jews in Europe during World War II.

            2. Who started the movement?

            The roots of Holocaust denial can be found in the
bureaucratic language of Nazi policy itself,
            which sought to camouflage the genocidal intent of what the
Nazis called the "Final Solution to the
            Jewish Question," even as these directives were being
carried out. After the war, former Nazis
            and Nazi sympathizers dismissed the overwhelming proof of
the Holocaust established at the
            Nuremberg war crimes trials; similarly, an obscure group of
post-War French Trotskyists and
            anarchists led by Paul Rassinier (since deceased), seeking
to advance their own political agenda,
            denounced evidence of the genocide as "Stalinist atrocity
propaganda."

            However, as an organized propaganda movement, Holocaust
"revisionism" took root in 1979
            when Willis Carto, founder of Liberty Lobby - the largest
anti-Jewish propaganda organization in
            the United States - incorporated the Institute for
Historical Review (IHR). The IHR is a
            pseudo-academic enterprise in which professors with no
credentials in history (for example, the
            late Revilo P. Oliver was a retired University of Illinois
Classics teacher; Robert Faurisson earned
            a Ph.D. in literature from the University of Lyon; Arthur
Butz is an engineer at Northwestern
            University), writers without formal academic certification
(such as David Irving, Henri Roques
            and Bradley Smith), and career anti-Semites (such as Mark
Weber, Ernst Zündel and the late
            David McCalden) convene to develop new outlets for their
anti-Jewish, anti-Israel and, for some,
            pro, Nazi beliefs.

            Since 1993, Willis Carto has broken with the IHR in a very
public, litigious feud. He has devoted
            considerable funds and rhetorical vehemence to dis.
crediting his former employees, and has also
            established a rival "revisionist" journal, The Barnes
Review. At issue in the feud, primarily, is not
            the history of the Holocaust - which both sides of the
dispute argue never really happened - but
            rather Carto's reportedly dictatorial management style, and
the control of a multimillion-dollar
            bequest to the parent corporation of the IHR. Although the
dispute remains in litigation, as of this
            writing a Superior Court Judge in California has awarded
$6.4 million to the IHR in their civil suit
            against Carto. The judge, in his ruling for the Institute,
characterized Carto as "evasive and
            argumentative" and added that his testimony in large part
"made no sense.... By the end of the
            trial, I was of the opinion that Mr. Carto lacked candor,
lacked memory and lacked the ability to
            be forthright about what he did honestly remember";
ironically, this description could accurately
            characterize the entire propaganda movement which Carto
founded.

            (For further details about this feud and its aftermath, see
Liberty Lobby: Hate Central, ADL
            Research Report, 1995.)

            3. Where is Holocaust denial active today?

            IHR has tapped into an international network of
propagandists who write for the group's Journal
            of Historical Review (JHR) and meet at its more-or-less
annual conventions. The leading activists
            affiliated with IHR have included Mark Weber, Bradley Smith
and Fred Leuchter (USA); Ernst
            Zündel (Canada); David Irving (England); Robert Faurisson
(France); Carlo Mattogno (Italy);
            and Ahmed Rami (Sweden). Of these activists, Bradley Smith,
who served for many years as
            IHR's "Media Project Director," has attracted the most
notoriety in the U.S., due to the series of
            "revisionist" advertisements which he has placed in college
newspapers since 1991 for the
            Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust (CODOH).

            Nonetheless, IHR has suffered noticeably from its feud with
Carto. Since breaking with its
            founder in 1993, the professional staff at the Institute
has shrunk from seven to two - Mark
            Weber, now serving as director, and Greg Raven, who
operates IHR's World Wide Web site -
            and its increasingly infrequent publications have consisted
mostly of reprints from previous issues
            of the Journal of Historical Review, along with at times
desperate appeals for funding. Most
            recently, IHR announced that its 1996 conference would be
postponed indefinitely.

            4. What is CODOH?

            Though Smith claims the "Committee" is an independent
entity devoted to promoting "open
            debate," it has operated essentially as a vehicle for IHR
propaganda. CODOH was first headed
            by Smith and Mark Weber, then-editor of the JHR; its
founder was the late William Curry, a
            longtime supporter of the IHR. Every other associate of the
group has also been a public
            participant in IHR conferences. CODOH ads and flyers list
the IHR address and cite IHR
            sources almost exclusively. Additionally, Bradley Smith's
Web page on the computer Internet -
            which is fairly elaborate and has constituted the bulk of
his activity since 1995 -provides links to
            the IHR site, as well as other Holocaust-denial outlets.
Smith, moreover, appears to have
            suffered from

            the same decline in fortune affecting the IHR. He has not
written a new editorial-style
            advertisement since 1993, and his pre-existing ads appeared
in only seven newspapers in 1995,
            and one in 1996, down from 13 in 1993. Instead, Smith's
current campus outreach tends to
            consist of inconspicuous, anonymous classified ads
promoting his Web site; the only indication of
            Smith's agenda in these ads is a reference to "Unanswered
Questions About the Nazi Gas
            Chambers."

            5. Are there other propagandists promoting Holocaust denial
on the World Wide Web?

            In addition to overt neo-Nazi groups, such as the National
Alliance,1 which promote denial of the
            Holocaust as part of a comprehensive racist and
anti-Semitic agenda, one of the most active
            Holocaust deniers on the computer Internet is the
German-born Canadian hatemonger Ernst
            Zündel Zündel whose anti-Semitic activities extend back to
the mid-70s, and include associations
            with the IHR and the neo-Nazi publication, Liberty Bell, as
well as the authorship of books such
            as The Hitler We Loved and Why, has established perhaps the
most extensive Holocaust-denial
            Web site on the Internet. Often updated daily, Zündel's
home page, operated by a previously
            obscure Southern California writer named Ingrid Rimland,
publishes materials in English, French
            and German and includes audio recordings of Zündel's own
speeches. In addition to his Internet
            activities - which he, like Bradley Smith, promotes by
purchasing inconspicuous ads in college
            and local newspapers - Zündel also produces a cable-access
TV program as well as German
            and English-language shortwave radio broadcasts, each of
which is also devoted to Holocaust
            denial.

            6. Are there laws regulating Holocaust denial?

            In Canada and Western Europe, Holocaust deniers have been
successfully prosecuted under
            racial defamation or hate crimes laws. In the United
States, however, the First Amendment
            guarantees the right of free speech, regardless of
political content. Nonetheless, though the First
            Amendment guarantees Holocaust deniers the right to produce
and distribute their propaganda, it
            in no way obligates newspapers or other media outlets to
provide them with a forum for their
            views.

            7. What do American legal precedents indicate about such
propaganda?

            The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 1974 decision, Miami
Herald Publishing Company v.
            Tornillo , that "A newspaper is more than a passive
receptacle or conduit for news, comment
            and advertising. The choice of material to go into a
newspaper... [constitutes] the exercise of
            editorial control and judgment." Simply stated, to require
newspaper editors or broadcasters to
            provide Smith, or any other individual, with a forum would
deny the newspaper or other media
            their own First Amendment rights to operate a free press,
without government coercion; such
            requirements would also diminish the public's ability to
distinguish historical truth from
            propaganda.

            Like the editor of a private newspaper, the editors of all
private and most public college
            newspapers have a First Amendment right to exercise
editorial control over which advertisements
            appear in their newspaper. The only situation in which an
editor of a state university newspaper
            would not have this right would be if the university
administration controlled the content of the
            campus newspaper and set editorial policy. In such a case,
the university would essentially
            function as an arm of the government, and prohibition of
newspaper advertisements based on
            content would violate the First Amendment. There are few
universities, however, where the
            administration exercises this type of control over the
student paper.

            At public elementary and secondary schools, the
administration has the right to refuse to print
            Holocaust-denial advertisements in a student newspaper; the
U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a
            1988 decision, Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, that
"educators do not offend the
            First Amendment by exercising editorial control over. . .
the content of student speech in
            school-sponsored expressive activities so long as their
actions are reasonably related to legitimate
            pedagogical concern." Based on that decision, it is clear
that public school officials have the same
            right as student editors to reject Holocaust-denial
advertisements, since this propaganda
            encourages bias and prejudice, offends many individuals and
has a negative educational value.

            The one case directly involving the substance of
Holocaust-denial propaganda in an American
            court was a 1985 lawsuit brought against the IHR by Mel
Mermelstein, a Holocaust survivor
            living in Long Beach, California. In the early '80s,
Mermelstein had responded to a cynical IHR
            publicity campaign which offered $50,000 to anyone who
could prove that Jews had been
            gassed at Auschwitz by submitting evidence that members of
his own family had been murdered
            at that concentration camp. When the IHR failed to comply
with its promised terms, Mermelstein
            filed his suit. In July 1985, the lawsuit was settled in
Mermelstein's favor. The settlement,
            approved by judge Robert Wenke of the Los Angeles Superior
Court, called for the IHR to pay
            Mermelstein the $50,000 "reward," as well as an additional
$40,000 for pain and suffering.
            Moreover, at a pre-trial hearing, the Court took judicial
notice of the fact that gas chambers had
            been used to murder Jews at Auschwitz.

            Several months later, Mermelstein won another victory
against the Holocaust-denial movement.
            In January 1986, a Los Angeles Superior Court jury awarded
Mermelstein $4.75 million in
            punitive damages and $500,000 in compensatory damages in a
suit he had filed in 1981 against
            Ditlieb Felderer, a Swedish Holocaust denier whose
publication, Jewish Information Bulletin (it
            is in fact none of these), had mocked the killing of Jews
at Auschwitz and had attacked
            Mermelstein personally. Later that year, the IHR and Willis
Carto sued Mermelstein, claiming he
            libeled them during a radio interview given in New York. In
1988, they voluntarily dropped the
            charges.

            8. What have academic authorities said about Holocaust
denial?

            The History Department at Duke University, responding to a
CODOH ad, unanimously adopted
            and published a statement noting: "That historians are
constantly engaged in historical revision is
            certainly correct; however, what historians do is very
different from this advertisement. Historical
            revision of major events. . . is not concerned with the
actuality of these events; rather, it concerns
            their historical interpretation - their causes and
consequences generally. There is no debate
            among historians about the actuality of the Holocaust...
there can be no doubt that the Nazi state
            systematically put to death millions of Jews, Gypsies,
political radicals and other people."

            David Oshinsky and Michael Curtis of Rutgers University
have written, "If one group advertises
            that the Holocaust never happened, another can buy space to
insist that American Blacks were
            never enslaved. The stakes are high because college
newspapers may soon be flooded with ads
            that present discredited assertions as if they were part of
normal historical debate. If the
            Holocaust is not a fact, then nothing is a fact...."

            Peter Hayes, Associate Professor of History and German at
Northwestern University, responded
            to a Smith ad by stating, "[B]ear in mind that not a single
one of the advances in our knowledge
            since 1945 has been contributed by the self-styled
'Revisionists' whom Smith represents. That is
            so because contributing to knowledge is decidedly not their
purpose . . . . This ad is an assault on
            the intellectual integrity ... of academicians, whom Smith
and his ilk wish to browbeat. It is also a
            throwback to the worst sorts of conspiracy-mongering of
anti-Semitic broadside.... Is it plausible
            that so great and longstanding a conspiracy of repression
could really have functioned? ... That
            everybody with a Ph.D. active in the field - German,
American, Canadian, British, Israeli, etc. - is
            in on it together?... If one suspects it is, might it not
be wise to do a bit of checking about Smith,
            his organization and his charges before running so
implausible an ad?"

            Perhaps most significantly, in December 1991, the governing
council of the American Historical
            Association (AHA), the nation's largest and oldest
professional organization for historians,
            unanimously approved a statement condemning the
Holocaust-denial movement, stating, "No
            serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place."
The council's action came in response
            to a petition circulated among members calling for an
official statement against Holocaust-denial
            propaganda; the petition had been signed by more than 300
members attending the organization's
            annual conference. Moreover, in 1994, the AHA reaffirmed
its position in a press release which
            stated that "the Association will not provide a forum for
views that are, at best, a form of
            academic fraud."

            Holocaust Denial Themes

            The following are summaries of major assertions employed by
Holocaust-denial propagandists,
            with brief factual responses.

            1. The Holocaust Did Not Occur Because There Is No Single
"Master Plan" for Jewish
            Annihilation

            There is no single Nazi document that expressly enumerates
a "master plan" for the annihilation of
            European Jewry. Holocaust-denial propagandists misrepresent
this fact as an exposure of the
            Holocaust "hoax"; in doing so, they reveal a fundamentally
misleading approach to the history of
            the era. That there was no single document does not mean
there was no plan. The "Final
            Solution" the Nazis' comprehensive plan to murder all
European Jews - was, as the
            Encyclopedia of the Holocaust observes, "the culmination of
a long evolution of Nazi Jewish
            policy."2 The destruction process was shaped gradually: it
was borne of many thousands of
            directives.3

            The development and implementation of this process was
overseen and directed by the highest
            tier of Nazi leadership, including Heinrich Himmler,
Reinhard Heydrich, Adolf Eichmann,
            Hermann Goering and Adolf Hitler himself. For the previous
two decades, Hitler had relentlessly
            pondered Jewish annihilation.4 In a September 16, 1919,
letter he wrote that while "the Jewish
            problem" demanded an "anti-Semitism of reason" - comprising
systematic legal and political
            sanctions - "the final goal, however, must steadfastly
remain the removal of the Jews altogether."5

            Throughout the 1920s, Hitler maintained that "the Jewish
question" was the "pivotal question" for
            his Party and would be solved "with well-known German
thoroughness to the final
            consequence."6 With his assumption to power in 1933,
Hitler's racial notions were implemented
            by measures that increasingly excluded Jews from German
society.

            On January 30, 1939, Hitler warned that if Jewish
financiers and Bolsheviks initiated war, "The
            result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and
thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation
            of the Jewish race in Europe."7 On September 21, 1939,
after the Germans invaded Poland, SD
            chief Heydrich ordered the Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing
units operating in German-occupied
            territory) to forcibly concentrate Polish Jews into
ghettos, alluding to an unspecified "final aim."8

            In the summer of 1941, with preparations underway for
invading Russia, large-scale mass murder
            initiatives - already practiced domestically upon the
mentally ill and deformed - were broadly
            enacted against Jews. Heydrich, acting on Hitler's orders,
directed the Einsatzgruppen to
            implement the "special tasks" of annihilation in the Soviet
Union of Jews and Soviet commissars.9
            On July 31, Heydrich received orders from Goering to
prepare plans "for the implementation of
            the aspired final solution of the Jewish question" in all
German-occupied areas.10 Eichmann, while
            awaiting trial in Israel in 1960, related that Heydrich had
told him in August 1941 that "the Führer
            has ordered the physical extermination of the Jews."11
Rudolf Hoess, the Commandant of
            Auschwitz, wrote in 1946 that "In the summer of 1941...
Himmler said to me, 'The Führer has
            ordered the Final Solution to the Jewish Question... I have
chosen the Auschwitz camp for this
            purpose.'"12

            On January 20, 1942, Heydrich convened the Wannsee
Conference to discuss and coordinate
            implementation of the Final Solution. Eichmann later
testified at his trial:

                 These gentlemen... were discussing the subject quite
bluntly, quite differently from
                 the language that I had to use later in the record.
During the conversation they
                 minced no words about it at all... they spoke about
methods of killing, about
                 liquidation, about extermination.13

            Ten days after the conference, while delivering a speech at
the Sports Palace in Berlin that was
            recorded by the Allied monitoring service, Hitler declared:
"The result of this war will be the
            complete annihilation of the Jews... the hour will come
when the most evil universal enemy of all
            time will be finished, at least for a thousand years."14 On
February 24, 1943, he stated: "This
            struggle will not end with the annihilation of Aryan
mankind, but with the extermination of the
            Jewish people in Europe.15

            Approximately 6 million Jews were killed in the course of
Hitler's Final Solution.

            2. There Were No Gas Chambers Used for Mass Murder at
Auschwitz and Other
            Camps

            Death camp gas chambers were the primary means of execution
used against the Jews during the
            Holocaust. The Nazis issued a directive implementing
large-scale gas chambers in the fall of 1941
            but, by then, procedures facilitating mass murder,
including the utilization of smaller gas chambers,
            were already in practice. Before their use in death camps,
gas chambers were central to Hitler's
            "eugenics" pro, gram. Between January 1940 and August 1941,
70,273 Germans - most of them
            physically handicapped or mentally ill - were gassed, 20-30
at a time, in hermetically shut
            chambers disguised as shower rooms.16

            Meanwhile, mass shooting of Jews had been extensively
practiced on the heels of Germany's
            Eastern campaign. But these actions by murder squads had
become an increasingly unwieldy
            process by October 1941. Three directors of the genocide
Erhard Wetzel, head of the
            Racial-Policy Office: Alfred Rosenberg, consultant on
Jewish affairs for the Occupied Eastern
            Territories, and Victor Brack, deputy director of the
Chancellory, met at the time with Adolf
            Eichmann to discuss the use of gas chambers in the genocide
program.17 Thereafter, two
            technical advisors for the euthanasia gas chambers,
Kriminalkommissar Christian Wirth and a
            Dr. Kallmeyer, were sent to the East to begin construction
of mass gas chambers.18 Physicians
            who had implemented the euthanasia program were also
transferred.

            Mobile gassing vans, using the exhaust fumes of diesel
engines to kill passengers, were used to
            kill Jews at Chelmno and Treblinka - as well as other
sites, not all of them concentration camps -
            starting in November 1941.19 At least 320,000 Chelmno
prisoners, most of them Jews, were
            killed by this method; a total of 870,000 Jews were
murdered at Treblinka using gas vans and
            diesel-powered gas chambers.20

            Gas chambers were installed and operated at Belzec, Lublin,
Sobibor, Majdanek and
            Auschwitz-Birkenau from September 3, 1941, when the first
experimental gassing took place at
            Auschwitz, until November 1944.22 Working with chambers
measuring an average 225 square
            feet, the Nazis forced to their deaths 700 to 800 men,
women and children at a time.22
            Two-thirds of this program was completed in 1943-44, and at
its height it accounted for as many
            as 20,000 victims per day.23 Authorities have estimated
that these gas chambers accounted for
            the deaths of approximately 2E to 3 million Jews.

            Holocaust-denial attacks on this record of mass murder
intensified following the end of the Cold
            War when it was reported that the memorial at Auschwitz was
changed in 1991 to read that 1
            million had died there, instead of 4 million as previously
recorded. For Holocaust deniers, this
            change appeared to confirm arguments that historical
estimates of Holocaust deaths had been
            deliberately exaggerated, and that scholars were beginning
to "retreat" in the face of "revisionist"
            assertions. Thus, for example, Willis Carto wrote in the
February 6, 1995, issue of The
            Spotlight, the weekly tabloid of his organization, Liberty
Lobby, that "All 'experts' until 1991
            claimed that 4 million Jews were killed at Auschwitz. This
impossible figure was reduced in
            1991... to 1.1 million.... The facts about deaths at
Auschwitz, however... are still wrong. The
            Germans kept detailed records of Auschwitz deaths.... These
show that no more than 120,000
            persons of all religions and ethnicity died at Auschwitz
during the war...."

            In fact, Western scholars have never supported the figure
of 4 million deaths at Auschwitz; the
            basis of this Soviet estimate - an analysis of the capacity
of crematoria at Auschwitz and Birkenau
            - has long been discredited. As early as 1952, Gerald
Reitlinger, a British historian, had
            convincingly challenged this method of calculation. Using
statistics compiled in registers for
            Himmler, he asserted that approximately 1 million people
had died at Auschwitz; Raul Hilberg in
            1961, and Yehuda Bauer in 1989, confirmed Reitlinger's
estimate of Auschwitz victims. Each of
            these scholars, nonetheless, has recognized that nearly 6
million Jews were killed overall during
            the Holocaust.24 Polish authorities were therefore
responding to long-accepted Western
            scholarship, further confirmed subsequently by documents
released in post-Soviet Russia; the
            cynical allegations of "Holocaust revisionism" played no
part in their decision.



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Holocaust Denial 2
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:16:06 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

. Holocaust Scholars Rely on the Testimony of Survivors Because There
Is No
            Objective Documentation Proving the Nazi Genocide.

            Another frequent claim of Holocaust "revisionists" concerns
what they describe as the lack of
            objective documentation proving the facts of the Holocaust,
and the reliance by scholars on
            biased and poorly collected testimonies of survivors.
However, the Germans themselves left no
            shortage of documentation and testimony to these events,
and no serious scholar has relied solely
            on survivor testimony as the conclusive word on Holocaust
history. Lucy Dawidowicz, in the
            preface to her authoritative work, The War Against the Jews
1933-1945, wrote, "The German
            documents captured by the Allied armies at the war's end
have provided an incomparable
            historical record, which, with regard to volume and
accessibility, has been unique in the annals of
            scholarship.... The National Archives and the American
Historical Association jointly have
            published 67 volumes of Guides to German Records
Microfilmed at Alexandria, VA. For my
            work I have limited myself mainly to published German
documents."26 The author then proceeds
            to list 303 published sources - excluding periodicals
-documenting the conclusions of her
            research. Among these sources are the writings of
recognizable Nazi policy makers such as Adolf
            Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Rudolf Hoess and Alfred Rosenberg.

            Similarly, Raul Hilberg in his three-volume edition of The
Destruction of the European Jews,
            wrote, "Between 1933 and 1945 the public offices and
corporate entities of Nazi Germany
            generated a large volume of correspondence. Some of these
documents were destroyed in Allied
            bombings, and many more were systematically burned in the
course of retreats or in anticipation
            of surrender. Nevertheless, the accumulated paper work of
the German bureaucracy was vast
            enough to survive in significant quantities, and even
sensitive folders remained."26

            It is thus largely from these primary sources that the
history of the Holocaust has been compiled.
            A new factor in this process is the sudden availability of
countless records from the former Soviet
            Union, many of which had been overlooked or suppressed
since their capture at war's end by the
            Red Army. Needless to say, the modification of specific
details in this history is certain to
            continue for a number of years to come, considering the
vastness and complexity of the events
            which comprise the Holocaust. However, it is equally
certain that these modifications will only
            confirm the Holocaust's enormity, rather than - as the
"revisionists" would -call it into question.

            4. There Was No Net Loss of Jewish Lives Between 1941 and
1945.

            Another frequent "revisionist" assertion calls into
question the generally accepted estimates of
            Jewish victims of the Holocaust. In attempting to portray
the deaths of millions of Jews as an
            exaggeration or a fabrication, Holocaust deniers wildly
manipulate reference works, almanac
            statistics, geopolitical data, bedrock historical facts and
other sources of information and
            reportage.

            For example, "revisionists" commonly cite various almanac
or atlas figures - typically compiled
            before comprehensive accounts on the Holocaust were
available - that appear to indicate that the
            worldwide Jewish population before and after World War II
remained essentially stable, thereby
            "proving" that 6 million Jews could not have died during
this period.

            The widely cited "6 million" figure is derived from the
initial 1945 Nuremberg trial estimate of 5.7
            million deaths; subsequent censuses, statistical analyses,
and other demographic studies of
            European Jewry have consistently demonstrated the essential
accuracy of this first tally.27 After
            nearly 50 years of study, historians agree that
approximately 6 million Jews perished during the
            course of the Nazi genocide.28

            In The War Against the Jews, Lucy Dawidowicz offers a
country-by-country accounting of
            Jewish deaths.29

            5. The Nuremberg Trials Were a "Farce of Justice" Staged
for the Benefit of the Jews.

            Yet another centerpiece of "revisionist" propaganda attacks
the objectivity and legal validity of
            the postwar Nuremberg Trials, where much information about
the Holocaust first became public,
            and where the general history of the genocide was first
established.

            The actual process of bringing Nazi war criminals to
justice was a lengthy and complicated effort
            involving the differing legal traditions and political
agendas of the United States, England, France
            and the Soviet Union. As the historical record shows, the
allied victors, if anything, erred on the
            side of leniency toward the accused Nazis.

            Discussions concerning allied treatment of war criminals
had begun as early as October 1943.30
            In the summer months following Germany's surrender in 1945,
British, American and Soviet
            representatives met in London to create the charter for an
international military tribunal to
            prosecute "major criminals" whose offenses extended over
the entire Reich, and who therefore
            could be punished by joint decision of the Governments of
the Allies.31

            By early autumn, the Allies had resolved their debates over
whom to prosecute and how to
            define the crimes committed during the Holocaust; the first
trials began thereafter in Nuremberg,
            before an international military tribunal. The chief
defendant was Hermann Goering, but the
            prosecution also selected 20 other leading officials from
the Nazi party, German government
            ministries, central bureaucracy, armament and labor
specialists, the military and territorial chiefs.32

            These trials did not result in either "rubber stamp" guilty
verdicts or identical sentences. In fact, of
            the 21 defendants, three were set free; one received a
10-year sentence; one a 15-year sentence;
            two, 20-year sentences; three, life sentences, and 11
received the death penalty.33

            The defendants, moreover, had access to 206 attorneys, 136
of whom had been Nazi party
            members.34 Furthermore, as Raul Hilberg stated, "The judges
in Nuremberg were established
            American lawyers. They had not come to exonerate or
convict. They were impressed with their
            task, and they approached it with much experience in the
law and little anticipation of the facts.35

            A second round of trials resulted in 25 death sentences, 20
life sentences, 97 sentences of 25
            years or less, and 3 5 not-guilty verdicts.36 By 1951,
following the recommendations of an
            American-run clemency board, 77 of the 142 convicted
criminals had been released from
            prison.37

                                             Notes

            1For more information about the National Alliance, see
William L. Pierce: Novelist of Hate,
            ADL Research Report, 1995.

            2Israel Gutman (Editor in Chief), Encyclopedia of the
Holocaust, Volume 2, New York, 1990,
            p. 788.

            3Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews
(Student Edition), New York, 1985, p.
            263.

            4See Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1933-1945,
New York, 1975, pp.
            150,166.

            5Gutman, Volume 2, p. 489.

            6Ibid., p. 489.

            7Gutman, Volume 2, p. 490.

            8Holocaust, Jerusalem: Keter Books, 1974, p. 104.

            9Gutman, Volume 2, p. 657.

            10Ibid., p. 492.

            11Ronnie Duggar, The Texas Observer, Austin, 1992, p. 48.

            12Gutman, Volume 2, pp. 641-642.

            13Ibid., Volume 2, p. 657.

            14Duggar, p. 48.

            15Holocaust, pp. 105-106.

            16Gutman, Volume 2, p. 453

            17Martin Gilbert, The Holocaust, New York, 1985, p. 219.

            18Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews,
Volume 3, New York, 1985, pp.
            873-876.

            19Gutman, Volume 2, pp. 541-544.

            20Gutman, Volume 2, p. 542; Volume 4, pp. 1483, 1486.

            21Gutman, Volume 1, pp. 113, 116.

            22Holocaust, p. 86.

            23Ibid., p. 87.

            24Reitlinger, who conducted his research before Hilberg and
other scholars, arrives at a more
            conservative figure of approximately 4.5 murder victims; he
nonetheless estimates that one-third
            of the internees at concentration camps died as a result of
starvation, overwork, disease, and
            other consequences of their captivity. Although his murder
count is somewhat lower than that of
            later scholars, his overall death count remains consistent
with subsequent research.

            25Dawidowicz, p. 437.

            26Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1223.

            27Dawidowicz, p. 402.

            28Peter Hayes, Associate Professor of German History at
Northwestern University, states, "after
            years of studying this matter, I know of no authority who
puts the number of Jews killed
            [emphasis in original] by the Nazis at less than 5.1 or
more than 5.9 million men, women and
            children."

            29Dawidowicz, p. 403.

            30Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1060.

            31Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1061.

            32Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1066.

            33Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1070.

            34Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1075.

            35Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1076

            36Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1077-1078.

            37Hilberg, Vol. 3, p. 1079.

            Source: Holocaust Denial, (NY: ADL, 1997). Reprinted with
permission.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:44:50 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 4:36:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< How embarrassing for you!

 Philip Mathews >>

*****Thank you, Sometimes you are just so good to me.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:49:07 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 3:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Including your own, for which you should be thankful!
 But if you can't manage something better than this I'm going to get
 bored.


 Philip Mathews
  >>

*********As many posts as you  make I would have to say you're bored already.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:56:38 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 3:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

    You are insecure....

 ************I'm not hearing voices, Philip

 You should thank God.

**********I praise God daily, but what would you know about God?



 Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just
playing.....



Oops. Snead left something out!! He mistakenly (he knows he can't claim
 a typo) used "your" for "you're", which I corrected. He snipped it
 because he's getting increasingly sensitive.


******Phil, You do not have what it takes between the ears to make me
sensitive, but if it will help your ego keep patting yourself on the back
because I am sure that no one on this list will do that for you.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:50:34 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1518
> In a message dated 9/28/99 4:36:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << How embarrassing for you!
>
>  Philip Mathews >>
>
> *****Thank you, Sometimes you are just so good to me.

You can say that again!

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:51:40 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1519
> In a message dated 9/28/99 3:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Including your own, for which you should be thankful!
>  But if you can't manage something better than this I'm going to get
>  bored.
>
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
>
> *********As many posts as you  make I would have to say you're bored
already.
>

That's because you assume it takes me as long as it would take you!

 Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:55:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

sneadste-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=1520
> In a message dated 9/28/99 3:57:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
>     You are insecure....
>
>  ************I'm not hearing voices, Philip
>
>  You should thank God.
>
> **********I praise God daily, but what would you know about God?

Do you have a private God?
>
>
>
>  Gratitude is not becoming of you......stop it Phil,  you are just
> playing.....
>
>
>
> Oops. Snead left something out!! He mistakenly (he knows he can't
claim
>  a typo) used "your" for "you're", which I corrected. He snipped it
>  because he's getting increasingly sensitive.
>
>
> ******Phil, You do not have what it takes between the ears to make me
> sensitive,

AH, correction, it would require something between your ears for you to
feel sensitive.

 but if it will help your ego keep patting yourself on the back
> because I am sure that no one on this list will do that for you.

You're pretty much the only one of "them" left on the list Snead. And
some semblance of mental acuity is necessary to possess an ego.

Philip Mathews

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:33:22 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 5:55:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< In a message dated 9/28/99 4:36:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 > philnancy@aol.com writes:
 >
 > << How embarrassing for you!
 >
 >  Philip Mathews >>
 >
 > *****Thank you, sometimes you are just so good to me.


 You can say that again!
 Philip Mathews


Well, Ok then......Thank you, sometimes you are just so good to me.

Michael Snead
    14/ABB
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special offer for eGroups Users: 100 Business Cards FREE!
Visit iPrint.com - The Internet iPrint Shop today to get
your set!  http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1025

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:20:32 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/28/99 10:03:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< but if it will help your ego, keep patting yourself on the back
 > because I am sure that no one on this list will do that for you.

......And some semblance of mental acuity is necessary to possess an ego.
Philip Mathews


By gosh you are right, Phil, so scratch the idea of you having an ego
then....and remember, you said it not me or the little voices that you hear
from reading my typing.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
      ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:03:10 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> As many posts as you  make I would have to say you're bored already.

Speaking of boredom, Michael... now that you've had a lot of time to do the
routine research, perhaps you can clear up a few of those nagging, unanswered
questions you didn't deal with earlier in the month....

You could perhaps list all of the lies in the Nuremberg transcripts... start with
the NCA "red set," and then move right on through the others - no sense taking
too much on at one time, Michael...

Then you might demonstrate that all of those books which included Holocaust
victim estimates were "written by Zionist publishers."

Then you might explain, as a mopup of sorts, how it is that (given that the very
chemist who did the sample analysis) Leuchter's findings have been discounted
because of his failure to comprehend the nature of testing requirements for
cyanide traces in masonery, and are thus quite worthless (hey, don't take my word
for it, Michael - ask any ten chemists at the nearest university lab).... how it
is that you still cite the discredited report as if it had value to anyone but
anti-Jewish racists....

When you've gotten all that trivial stuff behind you,  we can move on to the
other questions you've avoided... I've been making a list of those questions,
just for you, but I don't want to put too much on your plate all at once.

Thanks, Michael.. I'll just sit here under this tree and wait for you to
finish... wake me up when you're done, won't you?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:06:49 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> LIE YOUR ASS OFF.

Is that how you figure to get away with denying the Holocaust, Michael? By
lying your "ass off?"

Is that why you make claims you can't back up with facts?

Wow... you've got a mind as slow as a herd of turtles stampeding through
peanut butter if you really think that has done you any good....  doesn't it
embarrass you to read back through this conversation and see how transparent
your lies  appear, or is it that you just don't understand that?

...sorta like "The Emporer's New Clothes," hey, Michael?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:17:24 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/29/99 6:05:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

 > As many posts as you  make I would have to say you're bored already.

 Speaking of boredom, Michael... now that you've had a lot of time to do the
 routine research, perhaps you can clear up a few of those nagging, unanswered
 questions you didn't deal with earlier in the month....

************Let me see............. did I not tell you that if you wanted
something researched do it yourself? As far as the nagging...I have NO
control of your wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, or whoever he or she may be.

You could perhaps list all of the lies in the Nuremberg transcripts... start
with
 the NCA "red set," and then move right on through the others - no sense
taking
 too much on at one time, Michael...

************Herb, you do your own research,  I do not have time to play
school with you. Unless you can finish sheetrock, then we may be able to work
out a trade.

Then you might demonstrate that all of those books which included Holocaust
 victim estimates were "written by Zionist publishers."

*******Just a note Herb, writers, as a rule do not publish and publishers do
not write. What I did say was that 95% of the books published in this country
were owned by Jews. Now you may provide me with the names of a few non-Jewish
publishers and writers but the bottom line more times than not it is Jewish
controlled.

Then you might explain, as a mopup of sorts, how it is that (given that the
very
 chemist who did the sample analysis) Leuchter's findings have been discounted
 because of his failure to comprehend the nature of testing requirements for
 cyanide traces in masonery, ***(masonry-correct spelling)*** and are thus
quite worthless (hey, don't take my word  for it, Michael - ask any ten
chemists at the nearest university lab).... how it is that you still cite the
discredited report as if it had value to anyone but anti-Jewish
racists....***(is this a question?)***

******As a mop up (correct spelling)...Call a janitorial service and I did
explain that to you, If you need for me to refresh your memory go through the
archives and read exactly what I said. I was very specific and in just a few
short words too, but in your haste to attempt to trash every post that is
made, you may have let it slip by. I doubt it though,  you just avoided it.

When you've gotten all that trivial stuff behind you,  we can move on to the
other questions you've avoided
*****All of your posts are trivial.

... I've been making a list
******Are you checking it twice?

of those questions,  just for you, but I don't want to put too much on your
plate all at once.
*******Apparently you don't have anything right now since you didn't go on
and post it, because that hasn't stopped you before.

 Thanks, Michael.. I'll just sit here under this tree and wait for you to
 finish...
*********I thought parrots perched?
  >>
wake me up when you're done, won't you?
********since you're a parrot,  I can't say "I will let a sleeping dog lie"

Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>


------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: How to be a Holocaust professor.
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:07:26 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/29/99 6:09:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

 > LIE YOUR ASS OFF.

 Is that how you figure to get away with denying the Holocaust, Michael? By
 lying your "ass off?"

*******The subject of the text was, "How to be a Holocaust professor" key
word being "professor".....One that professes, avows, or declares.... To deny
the Holocaust and to profess the holocaust are two (2) different meanings.
You knew that, Herb, You are just playing again.

Is that why you make claims you can't back up with facts?
******You can't even comprehend a six word subject title and a four word
post, Herb,
and you act concerned about facts?

 Wow... you've got a mind as slow as a herd of turtles stampeding through
 peanut butter......
*******Herb, this is a trick statement isn't it? I have never heard of a
turtle herd but I have heard of peanut butter. Are you aware that peanut
butter has to be manufactured and doesn't grow in the wild or is farmed as
peanut butter?

if you really think that has done you any good.... doesn't it embarrass you
to read back through this conversation and see how transparent your lies
appear,
*********Does it embarrass you to realize that you have read something wrong
and appears that in this conversation you, Phil and your zionist (not
capitalized intentionally) tactics are the pellucid proverbial prevaricators
on this list with probably nothing better to do than harass people who will
never bother you.

or is it that you just don't understand that?
*****I understand that revisionism is growing by leaps and bounds and there
is nothing you can do to stop it. I understand that you make a habit of
twisting what someone says and try to humiliate them by posting your
mean-spirited messages. Typical liberalism at it's best.

...sorta like "The Emporer's New Clothes," hey, Michael?

******Emperor's (correct spelling), hey, Herb?
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Join theglobe.com the premiere online community! Take advantage of
FREE homepages, Stock quotes, News, Chat, Games and more! Interact
with people just like you! http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1042

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] "The Aryans, or Nobles"
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:50:38 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Dear List: Please visit the web page, "Our Legacy of Truth." It carries some
of the most original articles found anywhere. JM

www4.stormfront.org/posterity

http://www4.stormfront.org/posterity/race/

THE ARYANS, OR NOBLES

The Aryan past is spectacular: we were the Sumerians who originated
pictographs and writing; we were the ancient Atlanteans; we built Arkaim in
Russia, the ancient Aryan capital of the world with an astronomy site in
line with Stonehenge; we built the hanging gardens of Babylon; we were the
original inhabitants of ancient Egypt, as the earliest frescoes and statues
depict blue-eyed people: Menes, the son of the Assyrian king, Sargon the
Great, was Egypt's first king. We were the Egyptian Melchizedek priesthood
with Horus the Hawk, our Holy Spirit, leading and guiding us. We built the
Great Pyramid of Giza with Freedom Labor inspired by God in mathematics
which tells a story to whoever will open their eyes to it--Isaiah
19:19-25--this edifice intended as an altar unto the Lord, with a little
passageway on its inside time line, going from the "Descending Chamber" to
the "Ascending Chamber" at A.D. 33. The three pyramids were built in
alignment with the stars on Orion's belt, Orion being the constellation of
Christ, or the Spirit of truth; the Egyptian Sphinx is ours; so is the South
American Mayan temple and stone masonry found around the world.

We were the blue-eyed Medes-Persians, the originals of present-day Iran, the
name derived from "Aryan," meaning "Noble"; we were the Indo-Ayran Persians
who established a high culture in India; we were the Greek "Danaoi," and the
Spartans, who were descendants of Abraham; we were the Greeks who founded
ancient Byzantium; we were the Greek Alexander the Great, who conquered more
territory in his short life-span than any other conqueror, becoming the
richest man in personal wealth to this day to have ever lived, even more
than the Jewish Rothschild's and Rockefeller's. Our Alexander was the
conqueror who was initiated into the ancient rites of Osirus in Egypt, who
contributed Greek culture borrowed from Egypt, who married Princess Roxana
of Samarcand, and who commissioned a library to be built at Alexandria; we
were the Ptolemies who built that library; we were the philosophers Plato
and Aristotle; we were the Greek Cleopatra, who gave her life for her
people; we were the Russian Etruscans, and the later Romans who contributed
Roman culture to the world; we were the builders of the 1,000 year-old
Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire.

We were in Asia first and established a great civilization there--in China
we developed gun powder. Our later European brethren developed a trade route
with China as our ancestors have been found buried there--Hungarians, Serbs,
Goths, Cossacks from the Don River, Turks, Swedes, Macedonians, Czechs,
Scots and Bulgarians; we were the Phoenicians who ruled the seas; we were
the Phoenician-Hebrews that settled in Britain, the Phoenician Brithish--we
ruled the seas again, and supplied the materials to build Solomon's Temple;
we were "Isaac's Sons," hence the term "Saxons"; we were those known to the
Romans in Britain as Germans, from the Latin germanus, meaning "genuine"; we
were the British who later absorbed the Israelite tribe of Ephraim; we were
the Israelites of old, who after Assyrian captivity, as recorded in II
Esdras 13, landed in "Arsareth," present-day Germany. We were known as the
Scythians, or Latin "germanus" for genuine, as in the germ, or core, of
wheat; we are the blonde, blue-eyed, and tall Nordics of the Israelite tribe
of Naphtali that are buried in thousands of tombs in present-day Russia.

We were from the Israelite tribe of Dan who named the Danube River and
Denmark and settled in Ireland and named Dunkirk, and other Irish places
after Dan; we were the prophet Jeremiah from the Tribe of Levi who went to
Ireland and who is buried there--Ireland is called the "Emerald Island"
named after Levi's emerald gemstone; we were "Scota," King Zedekiah's
daughter, who traveled with Jeremiah--"Scotland" is named after her; we were
the Vikings of the tribe of Benjamin that conquered and invaded, and left
our culture everywhere we went. We are the ones that carried Benjamin's wolf
symbol with us. We are the ones who fulfilled Genesis 42:27: "Benjamin shall
ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he
shall divide the spoil"; we were Zebulon, who handled "the pen of the
writer"--Judges 5:14--who became Holland and developed the printing press.

We are the ones who carried all of the heraldic symbols of Israel to Europe
which exist still to this day as a witness and clue of our origins, with the
Royal families of Europe from Israel; we were the early Church Fathers,
including St. Augustine, who was inspired to write the "City of God"; we
were those in Europe that Jesus, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, was
speaking of when he told his disciples: "But go rather to the lost sheep of
the house of Israel"--Matthew 10:6; we were those who became Christians when
Paul visited us in Britain, and evangelized us, including Britain's Royal
family; we were the Druids who built Stonehenge. Pontius Pilate was educated
at a Druidic university where the pursuit and debate of truth was
preeminent, hence his question to Jesus, "What is Truth?"

We were the Teutonic Knights who brought the book of Enoch and more culture
to Europe, hence the Age of European Enlightment; we were the German Knights
Templar who built church edifices across Europe, of which it is claimed that
if you view them from space, they lie across Europe in the form of a five
pointed star, five representing grace, a reminder of the original five
pointed blue stars found in the earliest synagogues; we were the German
Catholic Luther who stood up against the Pope with corruption charges, who
dared to defy ecclestiastical tyranny, who announced "justification by
faith," and who gave the German people a Bible so they could read the truth;
we were the other Protestant reformers, protestors of tyranny.

We were Scotsman William Wallace of "Braveheart" who cried "freedom" rather
than "mercy" and this is how our people live; we were French woman Joan
d'Ark of which it is said all of heaven opened up to her so the angels could
direct the cause of freedom for her people; we were the Pilgrims to America;
we were the Dutch Boers who settled South Africa; we were the various sea
and land explorers, and those who later landed on the moon; we were the
classical composers Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Wagner, and Handel, the latter
who shut himself up to compose the "Messiah" and who attested to all of
heaven opening up to him while finishing this inspired work; we were
Catherine the Great who brought elegance and beauty to Russia.

We were the originators of the "rights of man" and the Magna Carta; we were
John Locke, and Thomas Paine, both adherents of natural law principles; we
were the Founding Fathers of America, the tribe of Manasseh: General
Washington, who spoke fluent German and who God protected while in battle;
the intellectual genius, Jefferson, who penned the Declaration of
Independence, who was proficient in Greek and Latin, who hated all "tyranny
of the mind," and who built Greek Monticello; Madison, the father of the
American Constitution; Patrick Henry who declared, "Give me liberty, or give
me death"; the patriot rider, Paul Revere; Nathan Hale, who regretted having
only one life to give for his country--we were also the women who stood by
these men; we were also the brilliant anti-Federalists, who believed in
self-government and state sovereignty as written in the Articles of
Confederation; we were the South who stood for these principles during the
War Between the States with our leaders Robert E. Lee, Nathan Bedford
Forrest, and Jefferson Davis.

We have been geniuses of innumerable inventions; we were the French who gave
America the Statue of Liberty, who one observer claims is actually Alexander
the Great bearing the torch of freedom; we were the builders of the
Washington Monument, an Egyptian obelisk, which connects America to Egyptian
high culture; we were the Wright Brothers; we were Lawrence of Arabia who
gave freedom to the Arab people; we were the American Amelia Earhart, the
first woman to fly across the Atlantic in 1928, and who later flew solo in
1932.

We were American Christian-patriot Charles Lindberg who took the first solo
flight across the Atlantic, and German Christian-patriot Rudolph Hess,
imprisoned for life for pursuing peace during a flight to Britain--whose
name has been falsely maligned by the the "powers-that-be" because he sought
peace rather than war; we were the Germans executed at Nuremberg unjustly
after being tortured into confessions and evidence falsified. Just as the
narrator in "Braveheart" states, "history is written by those who hang
heroes"; we were the elegant Eva Peron who loved the Argentine people; we
were the classical writers Jane Austen of "Pride and Prejudice," Margaret
Mitchell of "Gone with the Wind," and Taylor Caldwell of "Captains and the
Kings."

This present dark world is in upheaval as the world system moves towards
collapse. The earth is leaving the 2,000 year-old age of Pisces, the Fish or
Church age, and entering into Aquarius, the Water Bearer, an age of Spirit
and Truth.

A Woman the 'Z'

End

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Jewish Subversion-1
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:58:47 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

Recorded over a period of years following the rise of Jewish
power in America.

    1899 - 1900. The Jews attempt to have the word "Christian"
removed from the Bill of Rights of the State of Virginia.

    1906 - 1907. The Jews of Oklahoma petition the
Constitutional Convention protesting that the acknowledgment
of Christ in the new State constitution then being
formulated would be repugnant to the Constitution of the
United States. The Jews force "The Merchant of Venice" to be
dropped from public schools in Texas and Ohio.

    1907 - 1908. Widespread demand by the Jews for the complete
secularization of the public institutions of this country,
as a part of the demand of the Jews for their constitutional
rights. Supreme Court Justice Brewer's statement that this
is a Christian country widely controverted by Jewish rabbis
and publications. Jews agitate in many cities against Bible
reading. Christmas celebrations or carols in Philadelphia,
Cincinnati, St. Paul and New York met with strong Jewish
opposition.

    1908 - 1909. Protests made to Governor of Arkansas against
"Christological expression" employed by him in his
Thanksgiving Day proclamation. Professor Gotthard Deutsch
protests against "Christological prayers" at the high school
graduating exercises at Cincinnati. Jewish community in
Tamaqua, Pennsylvania, defeats resolutions providing daily
Bible reading in schools. Local Council of Jewish Women of
Baltimore petitions school board to prohibit Christmas
exercise. Boycotts were instituted in New York against
merchants who opened on Saturday. Special efforts at this
period to introduce the idea of the Jewish Sabbath into
public business. Jews refused to sit as jurors in court,
thus postponing case.

    1909 - 1910. On demand of the Jews, the school board of
Bridgeport, Pennsylvania, votes to discontinue the
recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the school. In Newark,
New Jersey, the rabbis ask the night schools to discontinue
Friday evening sessions, because the Jewish Sabbath begins
at sundown on Friday. The work of introducing the idea of
Jewish national holidays into public life especially active.

    1910 - 1911. An attempt to have Hebrew officially
recognized was frustrated by Supreme Court Judge Goff.
Chicago Jews have election date changed because the official
date fell on the last day of the Passover. Jews oppose Bible
reading and singing of hymns in Detroit schools. Rabbis
force Hartford, Connecticut, school board to drop "The
Merchant of Venice" from reading list. New York Kehillah
does two contradictory things; favors bill to permit Jews to
do all kinds of business on Sunday, and pledges itself to
co-operate in the strict enforcement of the Sunday laws.

    1911 - 1912. Jews in Passaic, New Jersey, petition school
board to eliminate Bible reading and all Christian songs
from schools. At request of a rabbi, three principals of
Roxbury, Mass., public schools agree to banish Christmas
tree and omit all references to the season from their
schools. A Jewish delegate to the Ohio Constitutional
Convention suggests that the Constitution be made to forbid
Christian religious references in schools. The Council of
the University Settlement, at the request of the New York
Kehillah, adopts this resolution: "That in the holiday
celebrations held annually by the Kindergarten Association
at the University Settlement every feature of any sectarian
character, including Christmas trees, Christmas programs and
Christmas songs, shall be eliminated."

    1912 - 1913. Jews at Jackson, Tennessee, seek an injunction
to prevent the reading of the Bible in City schools. Annual
Convention Independent Order B'nai B'rith at Nashville,
Tennessee, adopts resolution against reading of the Bible
and singing Christians songs in public schools. Chicago
Board of Education, scene of much Jewish agitation, approves
recommendation of sub-committee to remove Christmas from the
list of official public holidays in schools.

    1913 - 1914. The energies of the Jewish powers were
concentrated on the task of preventing the United States
from changing the immigration laws in a manner to protect
the country from undesirable aliens.

    1914 - 1915. More Kehillah attempts to secure modification
of the Sunday laws.

    1914: World One began because the International Jewish
Bankers did not wish Germany to build a railroad from the
middle east to Germany, through most of the Arab countries.
But the Jews made it appear that World War One started when
the nations went to war to avenge the assassination of the
Archduke Francis Ferdinand, the heir to the Habsburg Throne,
so on June 28, A joint proclamation of emergency government
a neutrality was issued by the American, Japanese, British,
French and Czech Commanders in July and our party remained
until late August.

    1914: Walter Scott, the secretary of the new England
Education League, has a bill introduced in Congress {H.R.
12247} "to create  an international board of education and a
fund for international or world education."

    1915 - 1916. Jewish opposition to various movements towards
making the schools free to use the Bible.

    1916 - 1917. Jews busy carrying out an immense campaign
against the "literacy clause" of the Immigration Bill. On
demand of the Jews the New Haven, Connecticut, Board of
Education prevents the reading of "The Merchant of Venice,"
and extends the prohibition to "Lamb's Tales from
Shakespeare."

    1917: In January the Jewish President Woodrow Wilson,
re-elected president in late 1916 on his promise to "keep us
out of the war," and maintain strict "Neutrality," told
Congress he earnestly wanted to remain at peace with Germany
(But a careful study of history proves that, he, like his
brother Jew FDR did a few years later worked heaven and
earth to get the United States into the war), But on April
2, 1917 America went to war "to make the world safe for
Democracy." "But a study of the racial history of Europe
indicates that there would have been few wars, probably no
major wars, but for the organizing of the Jewish
peace-propagandists to make the non-Jews grind themselves to
bits. The supposition is permissible that the Jewish
strategists want peace, AFTER they subjugate all opposition
and potential opposition. The question is, whose peace or
whose wars are we to 'enjoy?' Is man to be free to follow
his conscience and worship his own God, or must he accept
the conscience and god of the Zionists?" (The Ultimate World
Order, Robert H. Williams, page 49).

    In August the project expanded, when 7,000 men were landed
in Vladivostok and remained until January 1920, as part of
an allied occupation force. In September 1918, 5,000
American troops joined the allied intervention force at
Archangel, in support of the Bolshevik Forces, suffered 500
casualties and remained until June 1919.

    A handful of Marines took part earlier in a British landing
on the Murman Coast {Near Norway} but only incidentally. Max
Nordau, a Jew, speaking at the Zionist Congress at Basle in
August 1903, made this astonishing "prophesy": "Let me tell
you the following words as if I were showing you the rungs
of a ladder leading upward and upward: Herzl, the Zionist
Congress, the English Uganda proposition, The Future War,
the peace conference, where with the help of England a Free
and Jewish Palestine will be created." (Waters Flowing
Eastward, p. 108).

    All these operations were in support of the Bolshevik
Revolution in Russia and were partly supported by Bolshevik
elements who participated at times with us, but no war was
declared, and ALL  operations were under the personal
direction of then President Woodrow Wilson {A Marrano Jew.
When the family lived in Germany and were openly Jewish,
they spelled the name Wolfson. Then when they moved to
England they followed the Jewish custom of altering their
name occasionally, to make it sound more Western, and it
became Wohlson. And, then, when they moved to the United
States, they changed it again, and this time it became
Wilson}. Why? Britain desperately needed help, so the
Zionist Jews offered U.S. wealth and manpower in exchange
for Britain's promise to give Palestine to the Jews. This
promise was engineered by Lord Balfour {a Jew}, and thus
called the Balfour Declaration.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Jewish Subversion-2
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:00:19 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

1918-1919: The Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, signed March 15,
1918, between Russia and Germany removed Russia from the
side of the  Allies, added to the political chaos within
Russia, and caused additional political and military
problems for the Allies. On June 2, 1918, the Allied Supreme
War Council voted for military intervention at Murmansk and
Archangel in North Russia by a force of mixed nationalities
under British command. The original objectives of the
expedition were limited: to establish a rallying point for
those Czech troops inside Russia who were still loyal to the
Allies, to guard the supplies sent to the northern ports for
the Imperial Russian Army, and to prevent the establishment
of German naval bases at the northern ports. On July 17,
1918, President Woodrow Wilson (A Marrano Jew whose name
when the family lived in Germany and were openly Jewish,
they spelled the name Wolfson. When they moved to England
they followed the Jewish custom of altering their name so it
would appear Western in origin, it became Wohlson. Then when
they moved to the United States they changed it again, and
this time it became Wilson)  agreed with his Jewish advisors
to furnish American troops for the intervention of this
plan. On August 9, 1918, the 339th Infantry Regiment, 1st
Battalion of the 310th Engineers, 337th Field Hospital, and
337th Ambulance Company, all elements of the 85th Infantry
Division, were officially designated the "Murmansk
Expedition."

    On August 27 the expedition, consisting of 143 officers and
4,344 enlisted men under the command of Lt. Col. George E.
Stewart, sailed from Newcastle-on-Tyne in England and
arrived at Archangel on September 4 where, with other Allied
forces, it became part of the command of Maj. Gen. F.C.
Poole, British Army. American troops soon began to deploy
along the front 450 miles long, extending from Onega in the
west to Pinega in the east, and at some points 200 miles
distant from Archangel the site of Head-quarters, AEF, North
Russia, and also Allied Headquarters. Between September 1918
and May 1919 troops of AEF, North Russia, suffered over 500
casualties {mostly Americans} in combat against the Russian
6th and 7th Armies.

    In addition to the troops composing AEF, North Russia,
there were two other American contingents in the area. The
American Military Mission to Russia, headed by Col. James A.
Ruggles and including several assistant military attaches,
reported on significant political and military events to the
War Department and to David Francis, U.S. Ambassador to the
Provisional {Bolshevik} Government of the Northern
Provinces. The North Russia Transportation Corps
Expeditionary Forces, consisting of the 167th (Operations)
and 168th (Maintenance) Companies, Transportation Corps,
were sent to Murmansk in march and April 1919 to operate and
maintain the Murmansk Railway so that a line of withdrawal
for the icebound Allied force at Archangel might be kept
open. Maj. Edward E. MacMorland commanded this contingent,
which operated and maintained the Murmansk Railway from its
headquarters at Soroka. Early in 1919 President Wilson and
his chief advisers decided it was time to withdraw all
American forces from North Russia. (Their mission had been
completed and to prevent an international scandal they were
withdrawn). During May 1919 Brig. Gen. Wilds Richardson, who
had assumed command of all U.S. forces in north Russia on
April 9, began to concentrate AEF, North Russia, around
Archangel preparatory to return to the United States via
Brest, France. By June 27 the last of AEF, North Russia, had
left for Brest. On July 28 the North Russia Transportation
Corps Expeditionary Forces left Murmansk for Brest, and on
August 5, 1919, Headquarters, AEF, North Russia, was
discontinued.

    1918 - 1919. Provost Marshal Crowder, in charge of the
Selective Draft U. S. Forces, had issued an order to all
medical examiners, under direction of the Surgeon General,
stating: "The foreign-born, especially Jews, are more apt to
malinger than the native-born."

    Louis Marshall, head of the American Jewish Committee,
telegraphed demanding that the "further use of this form
shall be at once discontinued." President Wilson ordered the
excision of the paragraph. The United States shipping Board
sent an advertisement to the "New York Times," calling for a
file clerk and stating that a "Christian" was preferred - by
which is meant always a non-Jew - the paper rejected it.
Louis Marshall again went into action and protested to
Bainbridge Colby, Woodrow Wilson's Secretary of State,
demanding "Not because of any desire for inflicting
punishment, but for the sake of example and the
establishment of a necessary precedent this offense should
be followed by a dismissal from the public office of the
offender, and the public should be informed the reason."

    Attention is called to the tone which the American Jewish
Committee adopts when addressing high American officials in
the name of Jewry. It is not to be duplicated in the address
of any other representative of any other race or faith. The
Plattsburg Manual, published for officers in the United
States officers' training camps, contained the statement
that "the ideal officer is a Christian gentleman." The
A.J.C. at once protested against "Christological
manifestations," and the manual was changed to read "the
ideal officer is a courteous gentleman." The Anti-Defamation
Committee claimed that 150 American cities had excluded "The
Merchant of Venice" from the public schools.

    1919: Dalmatia. U.S. Forces were landed at Trav at the
request of Italian authorities to police order between the
Italians and Serbs.

    1919 - 1920. The Kehillah was so successful in its campaign
that it was possible for a Jewish advertiser in New York to
say that he wanted only Jewish help, but it was not possible
for a non-Jewish advertiser to state his non-Jewish
preference. And so it goes on, year after year, right up to
the present day. The incidents quoted are typical not
occasional. They represent what is transpiring all the time
in the United States as the Jews pursue their "rights."
There is no interference with Jewish ways and manners. The
Jew may use his own calendar, keep his own days, observe his
own form of worship, live in his own ghetto, exist on a
dietary principle all his own, slaughter his cattle in a
manner which no one who knows about it can approve - he can
do all these things without molestation, without the
slightest question of his right in them. But, the non-Jew is
the "persecuted one." He must do everything the way the Jew
wants it done; if not he is infringing on Jewish "rights."

    1919-1920: After many months of prodding by America's
Allies and top advisers in the State Department, President
Woodrow Wilson agreed in early July 1918 to permit limited
U.S. participation in an Allied expedition to Siberia. Among
the reasons Wilson gave for this move by the United States
were: to extricate Czechoslovak Armed Forces from Siberia
who had been attempting to reach the Western Front; to guard
allied military stores at Vladivostok; and to aid the
Russian {Bolshevik} people themselves in "self-government
and self-defense." Soon after Wilson's announcement, the War
Department made speedy preparations for the transfer of the
27th and 31st  Infantry Regiments from the Philippine
Islands to Vladivostok.

    In addition, Maj. Gen. William Graves, (General Graves's
troops on various occasions gave active support to the
Bolsheviki, Social Revolutionists, and other rebellious
elements which were fighting Kolchak in his rear. Colonel
John Ward, of the Middlesex Regiment, who was connected with
the Allied troops in Siberia, gave an impartial account of
the damaging and anti-Russian policy adopted by the United
States expeditionary force commanded by General Graves. This
writer revealed the fact that American army officers, who
were ostensibly sent to Siberia to resist disorder and
support order, instead had established a sort of 'entente
cordiale' with the Red forces operating in the rear of the
Omsk armies. He also stated that he 'could not believe that
America had come to Siberia to make' Admiral Kolchak's 'task
more difficult.' On the other hand, however, there was but
little ground for optimism. 'It was common talk,' remarked
Colonel Ward, 'that a conference between the Red Guard
Commander and General Graves...was actually arranged, but
was dropped when the Supreme Governor's representative in
the Far East declared to General Graves personally that his
proposed conference with the enemies of the Russian
Government would be considered as a hostile act.' Nor was
there much encouragement in the fact that 'our of sixty
liaison officers and translators with American headquarters,
over fifty were Russian Jews; some had been exiled from
Russia for political and other offenses, and now returned as
American citizens, capable of influencing American policy in
a direction not that of the American people.' (Colonel John
War, With the 'Die-Hards' in Siberia, pp. 276- 277, Geo. H.
Doran Co., New York, 1920). Will the Russian people ever
forget, will they ever forgive, the conduct of the French
general, who, after having guaranteed by his word of honor
Admiral Kolchak's personal liberty and safety, thereupon
delivered him to the Irkutsk Social Revolutionists; the
worthy co-partners of the Bolsheviki? Will the Russians
forgive that after Kolchak's safe conduct was guaranteed by
the banners of five great nations; America, Great Britain,
France, Italy and Japan, he was murdered in cold blood by a
revolutionary mob under the very folds of these banners?
This was the way in which the Allied Governments sought to
consolidate the Eastern Front." (The World At The Cross
Roads, Boris Brasol, pp. 101-103). who was designated
commander of the expedition, received orders to select an
additional 5,000 men and officers from his 8th Division
stationed at Camp Fremont, Calif., to supplement these two
infantry regiments.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:57:01 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Let me see............. did I not tell you that if you wanted
> something researched do it yourself? As far as the nagging...I have NO
> control of your wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, or whoever he or she may be.

Sorry, Michael - I reject your assertion that all of those books were published by
"pro-Zionist publishers." That means that you have to prove your case, or the
public will assume you cannot, and the rejection will stand. I am pleased that it
was so easy to get you to admit that you couldn't do it... it usually takes
longer, but you're not very good at this.

> Herb, you do your own research,  I do not have time to play
> school with you. Unless you can finish sheetrock, then we may be able to work
> out a trade.

Ah, I have done my research, Michael. I own several copies of the complete
transcripts. It is you who hasn't - and clearly won't - back up empty contentions
with facts. I knew that, you knew that, and now the reading public knows that.
That's all I wanted - an admission from you that you were too inept to even
attempt anything more than hot air.

> Just a note Herb, writers, as a rule do not publish and publishers do not write.
> What I did say was that 95% of the books published in this country were owned by
> Jews.

That's the most stupid statement yet, Michael. Return to school and learn to
write. Do you know how many books are published in your country? No, you do not.
You don't have a foggy notion. Do you know how many of those books are owned by
Jews? No, you do not.

Ignorance is not bliss.

> Now you may provide me with the names of a few non-Jewish publishers and writers
> but the bottom line more times than not it is Jewish controlled.

Prove it. Willie "gimmie the money" Pierce has tried - and failed - but be my
guest....

> Then you might explain, as a mopup of sorts, how it is that (given that the
> very  chemist who did the sample analysis) Leuchter's findings have been
> discounted  because of his failure to comprehend the nature of testing
> requirements for
>  cyanide traces in masonery, ***(masonry-correct spelling)*** and are thus quite
> worthless (hey, don't take my word  for it, Michael - ask any ten chemists at
> the nearest university lab).... how it is that you still cite the discredited
> report as if it had value to anyone but anti-Jewish racists....***(is this a
> question?)***
>
> ******As a mop up (correct spelling)...Call a janitorial service and I did
> explain that to you,

You explained nothing. You blathered, you blustered, you sent us the report again,
and Willie's crap again..... but explain it you didn't.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: Snead's poor memory
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:37:37 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Just a note Herb, writers, as a rule do not publish and publishers do not write.
> What I did say was that 95% of the books published in this country were owned by
> Jews. Now you may provide me with the names of a few non-Jewish
> publishers and writers but the bottom line more times than not it is Jewish
> controlled.

No, Michael, that is not what you said. Permit me to refresh your memory (You can
read this via
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/m/martin.willie/13texan-list/13texan.9909-01)

I provided you with a substantial list of history books, each one accompanied with
a citation concerning victim estimates. This was done in response to your strange
comments about the "6 million" estimates.

Your response was, quote:

"Read any of your pro-zionist literature and you will see they all say at least 6
million."

There are several ways one might take that, so let's explore them - you can tell
me when I'm warm:

1. Your comment was another way of avoiding having to deal with the facts
presented, all of which made you look pretty foolish, but you were not referring
to the actual list of authors and books cited. If that was the case, your response
was a red herring.

2. Your comment was another way of avoiding having to deal with the facts
presented, all of which made you look pretty foolish, and you were  referring to
the actual list of authors and books cited. If that was the case, your response
was a red herring.

However, ignoring your smoke and mirror show for the moment, let's look at
specifics. Raul Hilberg is a Jewish historian. His Holocaust books do _not_ "say
at least 6 million." There are many other examples, but one is enough to shoot you
down in flames. Again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: Snead's poor memory><> better than Gorman's
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:42:07 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Just a note Herb, writers, as a rule do not publish and publishers do not
write.
> What I did say was that 95% of the books published in this country were
owned by
> Jews. Now you may provide me with the names of a few non-Jewish
> publishers and writers but the bottom line more times than not it is Jewish
> controlled.

No, Michael, that is not what you said. Permit me to refresh your memory (You
can
read this via
Herb, go to message dated Tuesday, september 14, 1999, at 6:03AM # 1151 and
you will read exactly what I said. So, moron permit me to refresh your memory.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/m/martin.willie/13texan-list/13texan.9909
-01)
********Jewish propaganda Herb

I provided you with a substantial list of history books, each one accompanied
with
a citation concerning victim estimates. This was done in response to your
strange
comments about the "6 million" estimates.
*****I compared the Jews ability to count as that of Louis Farakahn on post #
826 dated Sunday, September 5, 1999,......

Your response was, quote:

"Read any of your pro-zionist literature and you will see they all say at
least 6
million."
******And that is true, but again Herb the KEYWORD being "pro-zionist" You
have to read these post thorough Herb.

There are several ways one might take that, so let's explore them - you can
tell
me when I'm warm:
******So now it is recess and Herb and I play again....

1. Your comment was another way of avoiding having to deal with the facts
presented, all of which made you look pretty foolish, but you were not
referring
to the actual list of authors and books cited. If that was the case, your
response
was a red herring.
*****Speculation, Herb....COLD

2. Your comment was another way of avoiding having to deal with the facts
presented, all of which made you look pretty foolish, and you were  referring
to
the actual list of authors and books cited. If that was the case, your
response
was a red herring.
*******still speculation, Herb, COLDER

However, ignoring your smoke and mirror show for the moment, let's look at
specifics. Raul Hilberg is a Jewish historian. His Holocaust books do _not_
"say
at least 6 million." There are many other examples, but one is enough to
shoot you
down in flames. Again.
*******Your speculating, Again. FROZEN, Herb, and you aren't capable to
shooting off your mouth, much less shoot me down in flames. Get off  of the
egocentric ride you are on buddy you look real foolish.
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
     ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: HomeGrown - September 29, 1999
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: HomeDelivery 
Reply-To: athomecanada@home.com
To: homedelivery@corp.home.net

                                   [Image]

               [Image]                  Sept 29 - Oct 12,
                                        1999
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                                  [Image]

            [Image]
            IN THIS ISSUE:
            [Image]
            [x]   @Home at Large: Reading, writing & roaming
            [Image]
            [x]   New: What's the score?
            [Image]
            [x]   New: Help for home buyers
            [Image]
            [x]   New: What You Said package
            [Image]
            [x]   Finance: Auctions anonymous
            [Image]
            [x]   Books: Under the Covers with Indigo
            [Image]
            [x]   Video: Investment Television with Garth Turner
            [Image]
            [x]   Click Cinema: Leave it to Lloyd
            [Image]
            [x]   Help: We need your sites!
            [Image]
            [x]   Tell Us! What do you want from HomeGrown?
            [Image]
            [x]   User Tip of the Week: 1.6 Upgrade
            [Image]
            [x]   Customer Support
            [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]@Home at Large: Reading, writing &
                       roaming
                       [Image]


                       @Home hit the street - Queen Street,
                       that is - in Toronto on Sunday,
                       September 26th for the annual Word
                       on the Street book festival. It was
                       a great day, with author readings,
                       book sales, live music and fun stuff
                       for kids. Check out our Word on the
                       Street coverage in the Pop Arts
                       Channel, and watch video readings
                       and interviews with authors Russell
                       Smith, Molly Peacock, Shyam
                       Selvadurai and others. You'll feel
                       like you didn't miss a thing!
                       Special thanks to @Home subscriber
                       Jasmine DeMarcos, who helped us out
                       by covering Word on the Street in
                       Calgary.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]New: What's the score?
                       [Image]
                       Hockey, baseball, football . . . too
                       many sports, too many scores. The
                       @Home Sports Channel is making life
                       easier for the sports fanatic, with
                       a streamlined look and more timely
                       coverage of events. You may never
                       have to attend a game, or leave the
                       house, again.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]New: Help for home buyers
                       [Image]
                       In the market for a new home?
                       @Home's new Home-Buying Helper in
                       the Lifestyle Channel will guide you
                       through the process of assessing
                       your needs, exploring the market,
                       arranging your finances and building
                       your team. And don't miss our Top 10
                       home-buying tips!

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]New: What You Said package
                       [Image]
                       Should parents be criminally
                       responsible for the actions of their
                       children? We asked this question in
                       our Sunday, September 26th News
                       Focus. Read the responses from
                       parents of troubled teens,
                       correctional officers and others
                       this Sunday, October 3rd in our
                       redesigned What You Said package,
                       with related links and a roundup of
                       @Home subscribers' comments.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]Finance: Auctions anonymous
                       [Image]
                       Do you have an uncontrollable desire
                       to click-bid? Have you found
                       yourself bidding on things you would
                       never have bought before eBay and
                       Bid.com? On Sunday, October 3rd, the
                       Finance Channel brings you tips and
                       tricks from around the Web that will
                       help you keep your shirt on through
                       those last moments of bidding.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]New: Under the Covers with Indigo
                       [Image]


                       @Home is pleased to welcome
                       Indigo.ca as its official book
                       partner. Go 'Under the Covers' of a
                       good book for first chapters of new
                       titles, recipes from delicious new
                       cookbooks, book reviews, audio
                       excerpts and more. Save up to 50% on
                       daily 'what's new, what's hot'
                       titles. Check the latest bestseller
                       lists or browse books by category.
                       Click on Books in the Pop Arts
                       Channel, where your next book is
                       just a click away.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]New: Investment Television with
                       Garth Turner
                       [Image]
                       Looking for timely, helpful advice
                       about equities and investment funds?
                       Each weekend the Finance Channel
                       features Investor File and
                       Investment Fund Report segments from
                       Garth Turner's Investment
                       Television. Videos are updated
                       Friday afternoon, and are available
                       until Monday afternoon.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]Click Cinema: Leave it to Lloyd
                       [Image]
                       A pharmacist with a dark side? Get
                       to know Lloyd, the Pharmacist - a
                       short film premiering this week, in
                       Click Cinema.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]Help: We need your sites!
                       [Image]
                       If you'd like to submit your
                       personal site for consideration,
                       please email us at:
                       athomecanada@home.com. Remember,
                       your site must have a
                       members.home.net domain. Please note
                       that all sites previously sent to us
                       will be considered as candidates for
                       the next newsletter.

                       Find out how to make your own site
                       on WebSpace, in the Member Services
                       section of @Home at the bottom of
                       your browser.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]Make HomeGrown your own
                       [Image]
                       What do you want to read about in
                       HomeGrown? We're planning a
                       HomeGrown relaunch and redesign and
                       we'd love to have your input. Would
                       you like more user tips? More member
                       sites of the week? Information about
                       the broadband industry? A preview of
                       stories coming up in @Home's channel
                       pages? You name it, and we'll
                       consider it. Please send your ideas
                       to home-ca@feedback.home.net with
                       the subject heading: HomeGrown.

                       [Image]
[Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]User Tip of the Week: 1.6 Upgrade
                       [Image]
                       Still using 1.5 software? It's time
                       to upgrade to version 1.6! Click
                       here for more information, and if
                       you still have questions, please
                       contact customer support…

                       [Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                [Image]Customer Support
                       [Image]
                       At @Home Canada, we are responsible
                       for your content experience. We also
                       receive email questions about a wide
                       variety of non-content related
                       issues. If your question is
                       content-related, bring it on. But if
                       the questions relate to performance
                       issues, our cable partners encourage
                       you to communicate directly with
                       their highly-knowledgeable help
                       desks via email.

                       For Shaw@Home subscribers, it's
                       internet.help@shaw.ca
                       For Rogers@Home subscribers, it's
                       support@rogers.home.net
                       For Cogeco@Home subscribers, it's
                       support@cgocable.net
                       For Videon@Home subscribers, it's
                       help@home.videon.ca

                       [Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
                                   [Image]
            [Image]Subscribe
                   [Image]
                   Did you know that, not only can you get
                   this newsletter emailed to you every week,
                   you can also get the Phreaky Phriday Phun
                   Linx and Crash Landing columns? To
                   subscribe or unsubscribe, please go to:
                   http://www/V3/tabmember/externs/maillists.htm
                   and enter your login name and password.
                   There you will be able to check a box that
                   says you want to subscribe or unsubscribe
                   to HomeGrown and various columns.

                   Please send your comments about
                   HomeDelivery to athomecanada@home.com.

                   Thanks, and have a great two weeks.

                   [Image]

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:27:38 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/29/99 11:07:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
gormanh@home.com writes:

<< SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

 > Let me see............. did I not tell you that if you wanted
 > something researched do it yourself? As far as the nagging...I have NO
 > control of your wife, mother, sister, girlfriend, or whoever he or she may
be.

 Sorry, Michael - I reject your assertion that all of those books were
published by
 "pro-Zionist publishers." That means that you have to prove your case, or the
 public will assume you cannot, and the rejection will stand. I am pleased
that it
 was so easy to get you to admit that you couldn't do it... it usually takes
 longer, but you're not very good at this.

*******Sorry, Herbert, I reject your offer because you can't finish sheetrock
and won't make a trade. So it doesn't prove a thing about any case for the
public. The only rejection you know about are at family reunions. As usual
you haven't read anything  because I admitted to nothing whereas you admit to
comprehension disabilities.

> Herb, you do your own research,  I do not have time to play
 > school with you. Unless you can finish sheetrock, then we may be able to
work
 > out a trade.

 Ah, I have done my research, Michael. I own several copies of the complete
 transcripts. It is you who hasn't - and clearly won't - back up empty
contentions
 with facts. I knew that, you knew that, and now the reading public knows
that.
 That's all I wanted - an admission from you that you were too inept to even
 attempt anything more than hot air.

*******Give me a list of the Jewish owned publishing companies. How many in
the Nuremberg trial were Jews?

 > Just a note Herb, writers, as a rule do not publish and publishers do not
write.
 > What I did say was that 95% of the books published in this country were
owned by Jews.

 That's the most stupid statement yet, Michael. Return to school and learn to
 write.

*****Now Herbert, what was stupid about the statement other than the fact
that it was TRUE. It is obvious who needs to return to school. Have you
thought of taking some Anger Management Classes?

Do you know how many books are published in your country? No, you do not.

 *****Psst, Herbert,  Over here in the United States the number of books
published each year vary from one fiscal year to the next but has been on a
slight increase over the last four years. So you are correct to assume that I
did not know, however I do now. This year (FYI) will be different from last
year in publications because it has already exceeded last years trend.


You don't have a foggy notion.
*****You are correct, compared to Great Britain however, we do have a lot of
fog though, especially here in Georgia. By the way Herb the correct spelling
is nation.

Do you know how many of those books are owned by Jews?
*******95% of the total.

No, you do not.
********95% of the total.......De Ja Vu

Ignorance is not bliss.
*******You should know.

 > Now you may provide me with the names of a few non-Jewish publishers and
writers
 > but the bottom line more times than not it is Jewish controlled.

 Prove it. Willie "gimmie the money" Pierce has tried - and failed - but be my
 guest....
********Do you know how many publishers that there are? 95% of the total are
Zionist propaganda machines. You figure it out...Not doing your homework,
Herbert.

 > Then you might explain, as a mopup of sorts, how it is that (given that the
 > very  chemist who did the sample analysis) Leuchter's findings have been
 > discounted  because of his failure to comprehend the nature of testing
 > requirements for
 >  cyanide traces in masonery, ***(masonry-correct spelling)*** and are thus
quite
 > worthless (hey, don't take my word  for it, Michael - ask any ten chemists
at
 > the nearest university lab).... how it is that you still cite the
discredited
 > report as if it had value to anyone but anti-Jewish racists....***(is this
a
 > question?)***
 >
 > ******As a mop up (correct spelling)...Call a janitorial service and I did
 > explain that to you,

 You explained nothing. ****And You have?
You blathered, you blustered,****and you didn't?
you sent us the report again,*****I did?
 and Willie's crap again.....******No way!
 but explain it you didn't.********I did. You just can't seem to read very
well and there is a slight comprehension problem there too. Have you thought
of committing yourself? Even some shock treatment might help. I am afraid
that if you keep this up and get into trouble with the law that you may have
a hard time going into the delousing chamber...You know, flashbacks and
all...probably unpleasant being a criminal and being incarcerated. Is it
scary?
Michael Snead
  14/ABB
    ><>



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Responding to Kikes
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:05:09 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Sneadster vs. Herb Gorman, et al:

I provided you with a substantial list of history books, each one
accompanied with a citation concerning victim estimates. This was done in
response to your strange comments about the "6 million" estimates.
*****I compared the Jews ability to count as that of Louis Farakahn on post
# 826 dated Sunday, September 5, 1999,......

Your response was, quote:

"Read any of your pro-zionist literature and you will see they all say at
least 6 million."
******And that is true, but again Herb the KEYWORD being "pro-zionist" You
have to read these post thorough Herb.
>snip>
*******You're speculating, Again. FROZEN, Herb, and you aren't capable to
shooting off your mouth, much less shoot me down in flames. Get off  of the
egocentric ride you are on buddy you look real foolish.
Michael Snead
    14/ABB
      ><>
~~~~~~~
Me: I appreciate Michael's work to set the record straight, but the facts
are that the truth is wasted on kikes. Kikes never get it because they are
incapable of receiving truth. That is why Jesus said their father was a liar
because they are liars and always will be. There is simply no point in
debating with liars.
JM

______________________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Re: Snead's poor memory><> better than Gorman's
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:51:14 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> However, ignoring your smoke and mirror show for the moment, let's look at
> specifics. Raul Hilberg is a Jewish historian. His Holocaust books do _not_ "say
> at least 6 million." There are many other examples, but one is enough to shoot
> you down in flames. Again.

> Your speculating, Again. FROZEN, Herb, and you aren't

"You're" - no speculation whatsoever, Michael. You made a claim, I've proven that
your claim was worthless. Ain't nuttin' to "speculate" about. You said it, you
were wrong. Get used to it. (Would you like the bibliographic data for other
Jewish historians who do not say "at least 6 million," or are you embarrassed
enough as it is, Micael?)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:55:30 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

[Nothing of interest]

I would like to thank you for participating in this study, Mr. Snead. I could not
have hoped for a better example of the true meaning of bigotry if I had
advertised.

I am so pleased that, unlike your other "Christian" Identity kennelmates, you
chose not to run away and hide, but to do battle, defending your ignorance and
bigotry before the world. The study would have ended a month ago, were it not for
your eager participation.

I have done what I came to do, and bit you farewell, Mr. Snead. It's been a treat
leading you hither and yon while extracting admissions of ignorance, bigotry and
plain, old fashioned stupidity from your mouth.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Re: Responding to Kikes
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:57:21 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman wrote:

> Me: I appreciate Michael's work to set the record straight, but the facts are
> that the truth is wasted on kikes. Kikes never get it because they are
> incapable of receiving truth. That is why Jesus said their father was a liar
> because they are liars and always will be. There is simply no point in
> debating with liars.

...another one runs away... how refreshing to see that none of you are capable
of anything else.

Thank you for your contributions to Nizkor's archives - scholars will find them
of more than passing interest in the years to come, when they wish to study the
mind of the bigot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

  Herb Gorman 

  Herb Gorman
    
  Additional Information:
  Last Name     Gorman
  First Name    Herb
  Version       2.1

Subject: [13texan] Jewish Subversion-3
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:07:05 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

On August 3, 1918, orders were sent from the Adjutant
General in Washington to the two regiments in the
Philippines and to Graves in California to embark for
Vladivostok, where they were to establish American
Headquarters. The bulk of the expeditionary forces landed in
Siberia between August 15 and September 2. Immediately upon
arrival, elements of the 27th and 31st Infantry Regiments
took up guard duty along the Ussuri Railroad line from
Vladivostok to Nikolsk.

    During late August and September the remainder of the 27th
Infantry under Col. Henry Styer participated in an Allied
offensive that pushed back Russian forces in the
Spasskoe-Ussuri region. By November most of this fighting
had subsided, and the primary tasks of the AEF in Siberia
became railroad garrison duty, care of prisoners of war, and
guarding Allied supplies at Vladivostok.

    In the Spring of 1919, an inter-Allied agreement on
guarding the Trans-Siberian Railroad resulted in the
assignment of American forces to several widely separated
sections of the railroad line: Vladivostok to
Nikolsk-Ussuri, Ugolnaya to the Suchan Mines, Spasskoe to
Ussuri, and (1,700 miles further west) Verkhne-Udinsk to
Mysovaya. During the period May through August 1919, the
garrisons at Ugolnays, Ussuri, Razodolnoe, the Suchan Mines,
and Shkotovo sustained the heaviest casualties of the
expedition because of strikes, riots, and Russian guerrilla
activity. Conditions were so bad that American forces were
removed from Shkotovo and the Suchan Mines in August.

    Other American garrisons, however, maintained their
stations until January 9, 1920, when the War Department
ordered the entire AEF in Siberia to assemble at Vladivostok
in order to return to Manila. (The Bolshevik takeover was
complete). On April 1, 1920, General Graves closed his
headquarters, and the last American units departed from
Siberia.

    1919: Honduras. A landing force was sent ashore to maintain
order during an attempted revolution.

    1919: The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) was
established to promote Communism and implementation of the
evil objectives of the original Illuminati.

    1918/1919: Mexico. After withdrawal of the Pershing
expedition, our troops entered Mexico in pursuit of bandits
at least three times in 1918; in August 1918 American and
Mexican troops fought at Nogales. and six times in 1919.

    1918/1920: Panama. For police duty according to treaty
stipulations, at Chiriqual during election disturbances and
subsequent unrest.

    1918/1920: Soviet Russia. Marines were landed at and near
Vladivostok in June and July to protect the American
Consulate and other points in the fighting between the
Bolshevik troops and the Czech Army which had traversed
Siberia from the Western Front.

    1920: China. A landing force was sent ashore for a few
hours to protect lives during a disturbance at Klukiang.

    1920: Guatemala. To protect the American Legation and other
American interests, such as the cable station, during a
period of fighting between Unionists and the Government of
Guatemala.

    1920/1922: Russia {Siberia}. An American Marine guard to
protect the United States radio station and property on
Russian  Island, Bay of Vladivostok. Thus prohibiting the
use of the Radio Station from being used by anti-Bolshevik
elements.

    1921: Panama/Costa Rica. American naval squadrons
demonstrated in April on both sides of the Isthmus to
prevent war between the two countries over a boundary
dispute.

    1921: A famine in the Ukraine, where Stalin murdered more
than 7-million kulaks by starvation. This caused famine
throughout the Soviet Union and America sent them over
$74-million in food through a so-called conservative by the
name of Herbert Hoover. However, this help was sent under
the guise of "Belgian Relief." Which must have been quite a
shock to the Belgians  who had just made one of the greatest
harvests of food in their history.

    1922: Turkey. A landing force was sent ashore with the
consent of both Greek and Turkish authorities, to protect
American lives  and property when the Turkish Nationalists
entered Smyrna.

    1922/1923: China. Between April 1922 and Nov. 1923, marines
landed five times to protect Americans during periods of
unrest.

    1924: Honduras. To protect American lives and interests
during election hostilities.

    1924: China. Marines were landed to protect Americans and
other foreigners (Read that Jewish International Banker's
interests)  in Shanghai during Chinese factional
hostilities.

    1924: "We intend to remake the Gentiles -- what the
Communists are doing in Russia." (Rabbi Lewish Brown in "How
Odd of God," New York, 1924).

    1924: The power of the Bank of England and of its governor
was admitted by most qualified observers.

    1925: China. Fighting of Chinese factions accompanied by
riots and demonstrations in Shanghai necessitated landing
American forces to protect lives and property in the
International Settlement.

    1925: Honduras. To protect foreigners at La Celba during a
political upheaval.

    1925: Panama. Strikes and rent riots led to the landing of
600 American troops to keep order and protect American
interests.

    1926: China. The nationalist attack on Hankow necessitated
the landing of American naval forces to protect American
Citizens. A small guard was maintained at the disposal of
the consulate general even after Sep. 16, when the rest of
the forces were withdrawn. Likewise, when Nationalist
{anti-Communist} forces captured Klukiang, naval forces were
landed for the protection of foreigners.

    1926/1933: Nicaragua. The coup d'etat of General Chamorro
aroused revolutionary activities leading to the landing of
American  marines to protect the interests of the United
States and the Inter-national Jewish Banking interests. U.S.
Forces came and went, but seem not to have left the country
entirely until January 3, 1933. Their work included activity
against the outlaw leader Sandino in 1928.

    1927: China. Fighting at Shanghai caused American naval
forces and marines to be increased there. In March a naval
guard was stationed at the American Consulate at Nanking
after Nationalist {anti- Communist} forces captured the
city. American and British destroyers later used shell fire
to protect Americans and other foreigners. Following this
incident additional forces of marines and naval vessels were
ordered to China and stationed in the vicinity of Shanghai
and Tientain.

    1928: America sent Russia the money whereby they were able
to change from a so-called "agrarian" to an "industrial"
society, Standard Oil contributed over $20-million, with
healthy contributions from General Electric. While at the
same time Averiell Harriman, Sr. was sent to Moscow by our
government to put their mines back into operation again.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] Jewish Subversion - 4
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:08:45 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

1930: During the 1930's the United States built their
automobile industry and the steel industry at Gorki, modeled
after our plants at South Bend, Indiana. Only five times as
large. While at the same time the American government was
using taxpayer dollars  built the Russians the world's
largest hydro-electric plant on the Dnepr River.

    1932: China. American forces were landed to protect
American interests during the Japanese occupation of
Shanghai.

    1933: Cuba. During a revolution against President Genardo
Machado naval forces demonstrated; no landing was made.

    1934: China. Marines landed at Foochow to protect the
American Consulate.

    1935: The American government sent grain and medical help
to Russia during a time of intense famine. It is almost
certain that the Communist government would have collapsed
at this time without this help, as there were food riots
over the entire Soviet Union.

    "Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with
deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: a merciless
campaign against all German peoples and the complete
destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of
trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and
retaliation towards every German, woman and child." (Jewish
professor A. Kulischer, October, 1937).

    1939: The Communist Government under Stalin's rule, was so
shaky the Russian Army was on the verge of being defeated by
tiny Finland; one of America's most staunch friends. And
with the diversion of just a tiny fraction of the millions
of tons of war equipment being shipped to Europe daily,
could have saved Finland and dealt a sever blow to Stalin
and a death blow to Communism. But due to the efforts of
Roosevelt no supplies reached them.

    1940: At the beginning of World War II, Franklin D.
Roosevelt, along with his Jewish advisors came to the aid of
the Soviet Union once again, which was a much greater threat
to our safety than the Nazis could ever have become. During
the war we sent them over $11-billion in Lend Lease at a
time American men and boys were dying in the Pacific for
lack of supplies, because our available ships were
transporting some of these war materials to the Soviet
Union. The Soviets never returned the "Liberty" ships we
loaned them to ship much of this material in.

    1941: Netherlands {Dutch Guiana}. In November the President
ordered American troops to occupy Dutch Guiana, by agreement
with the Netherlands Government in exile, while Brazil
co-operated to protect aluminum ore supplies from the
bauxite mines in Surinam.

    1941: Germany. Sometime in early spring of 1941, the
President ordered the Navy to patrol the shipping lanes to
Europe. By July U.S. warships were convoying Allied ships
and by September were "Attacking" German Submarines. This
was done with no authorization of Congress or Declaration of
War. In November, the Neutrality Act was partly repealed to
protect and allow military aid to Russia and Britain.

    1941: On November 18, the Pearl Harbor tragedy was invited
when Hull rejected the Prime Minister of Japan's sincere and
humble request to meet personally with President Roosevelt
and discuss and adjust the problems confronting the two
nations in a mutually satisfactory manner.

    1941: December 4, 5, 6, Army intelligence and the United
States Navy cipher experts intercepted Japanese code
messages that plainly revealed the very time Japan would
strike Pearl Harbor! (Saga of Hog Island). The officials at
Washington knew exactly what was going to happen. But no
word, no alert, no warning was allowed to be sent to the
Commanders at Pearl Harbor until the senders knew the
message would be received After the attack was made. ("While
professing to be 'profoundly disturbed' by the aggression of
anti- Semitic Germany, Roosevelt continued his special
friendship for Soviet Russia after its attacks upon Outer
Mongolia, Poland, Latvia, Esthonia, Lithuania and Finland.
Professing an adoration for 'democracy' he refused, as the
Jews control 90 percent of the scrap iron business, to
invoke the Neutrality Act against Japan in its war on China,
or against Russia when, with Germany, she invaded Poland and
attacked Finland. He extended a warm welcome to the
Communist Ambassador Oumansky when he presented his
credentials and, on the same day, displayed marked coldness
toward the newly appointed Ambassador from Christian Spain."
(War! War! War!, Cincinnatus, p. 152).  December 7, at 7:50
A.M., the United States Pacific fleet was anchored,
unprotected, unprepared, never warned, never alerted.
Result: 200 planes and 5 big battleships were totally
destroyed, 3 others wrecked.

    1941/1946: President Roosevelt, re-elected on promises to
keep America out of the European war, tried repeatedly to
entice German submarine commanders into sinking our unarmed
merchant ships which were hauling millions of tons of war
supplies to Germany's enemies. Although it is still a
closely guarded secret, a British Submarine, disguised as a
German U-2 Boat, was captured firing upon an American Ship
and was taken to Norfolk and then quietly released. "We are
not denying and we are not afraid to confess, this war is
our war and that it is waged for the liberation of
Jewry...Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that
of Jewry. We are not only giving this war our financial
support on which the entire war production is based. We are
not only providing our full propaganda power which is the
moral energy that keeps this war going. The guarantee of
victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy
forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the
resistance. And we are the Trojan Horses in the enemy's
fortress. Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the
principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our
front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory."
(Chaim Weizmann, President of the World Jewish Congress, in
a Speech on December 3, 1942, in New York City).

    1945: On April 26, 1945, representatives of most of the
civilized nations of the world met in San Francisco to
create an organization of nations which would become a
pattern for world government and, it was hoped by its
sincere supporters, insure lasting peace to a world long
weary of war. The conference was completed on June 26, 1945,
with the adoption of the U.N. Charter.

    1946: Treaty. President Truman ordered the augmentation of
U.S. Troops along the zonal occupation line and the
reinforcement of air forces in Northern Italy after Yugoslav
forces shot down an unarmed U.S. Army transport plane flying
over Venezia Giulia. Earlier U.S. Naval units had been
dispatched to the scene.

    1948/1949: China. Marines were dispatched to Nanking to
protect the American Embassy when the city fell to Communist
troops, and to Shanghai to aid in the protection and
evacuation of Americans.

    1950: January: State Department White Paper issued
declaring that the United States would not defend South
Korea or Formosa if they were invaded. The bait was
accepted: On June 9, 1950, South Korea was invaded. America
entered a war that was to cost it 117,000 American lives.

    1950/1953: Korea. U.S. responded to North Korean invasion
of South Korea by being ordered to go to its assistance by
the United Nations; Congressional Authorization was not
sought. The Korean fiasco aroused American voters who  were
offered, the Jew, Dwight D. Eisenhower for President, a
soldier who they thought would surely win that ridiculous
war. Eisenhower did end the war, but not by winning which
could easily have been done, but by yielding to Communist
terms and insults he provided the festering sore of a
divided Korea; "We will have a world government whether you
like it or not. The only question is whether that government
will be achieved by conquest or consent." (Jewish Banker
Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the
U.S. Senate).

    1951/1955: China. Naval units evacuated U.S. Civilians and
military personnel from the Tachen Islands.

    1952: In 1952 the Jews had become so powerful at
influencing Christian thinking into accepting Jewish
teachings that they actually bragged about their power
within the pages of the American Jewish Yearbook. Where they
stated; "Arrangements have been completed with the National
Council of Churches whereby the American Jewish Congress and
the Anti- Defamation League will jointly...aid in the
preparation of lesson materials, study guides and visual
aids...sponsored by Protestant organizations. You can call
these tactics anything you want to. You can even say smear.
We prefer to say 'education.'"

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: [13texan] How The Jews Murdered the Jews in the Holocaust
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:01:58 -0000
From: "eGroups Calendar" <13texan@egroups.com>
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Reminder from the 13texan calendar at eGroups.com

Event: How The Jews Murdered the Jews in the Holocaust
URL:   http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=13texan&md=d&day=10850
Date:  Thu Sep 30, 1999
Time:

Explains how the Holocaust was a fraud perpetuated by the Jews....in the name of Zionism......how many Americans died in that WWII liberating Jews from themselves.

The eGroups.com Team
---
FREE Web-based e-mail groups!
http://www.egroups.com

Subject: [13texan] Re: Snead's poor memory><> better than Gorman's
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:11:15 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/30/99 6:37:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< However, ignoring your smoke and mirror show for the moment, let's look at
 > specifics. Raul Hilberg is a Jewish historian. His Holocaust books do
_not_ "say
 > at least 6 million." There are many other examples, but one is enough to
shoot
 > you down in flames. Again.

*****Your speculating, Again. FROZEN, Herb, and you aren't

 "You're" - no speculation whatsoever, Michael. You made a claim, I've proven
that
 your claim was worthless. Ain't nuttin' to "speculate" about. You said it,
you
 were wrong. Get used to it. (Would you like the bibliographic data for other
 Jewish historians who do not say "at least 6 million," or are you embarrassed
 enough as it is, Micael?)

*****Your speculations are as empty as your arguments. You are wrong but are
too ashamed to "fess up". I do not want anything about any Jews. you see, you
Jews can't force me to even like you. You're historically known for your lies
and deceit so what makes you think I even care, Hreb? Nor do I care if the
Jewish controlled media, publication companies, and even Hollywood recant and
say just one million were Holocaust victims, That is 1 million too high!
Michael Snead
  14/ABB
    ><>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: Re: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:39:51 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com
CC: gormanh@home.com

In a message dated 9/30/99 6:38:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

 [Nothing of interest]

 I would like to thank you for participating in this study,
 ******You are welcome and I hope what I have said will persuade you to leave
young innocent Goyim girls alone and that you may walk henceforth in the
straight and narrow.

Mr. Snead. I could not have hoped for a better example of the true meaning of
bigotry if I had advertised.
********I personally have not seen anything like this before Mr. Gorman and
you definitely are a fine example of bigotry....

 I am so pleased that, unlike your other "Christian" Identity kennelmates, you
 chose not to run away and hide, but to do battle,***playing war are we?***
defending your ignorance and bigotry before the world. The study would have
ended a month ago, were it not for your eager participation.
 *******I see your disappointment is overwhelming and you have resorted back
to your name calling. What is ignorance is the fact that full grown Jew kikes
like little white girls for sexual partners. Let me ask you this....Is it for
the conversation after the sex with evenly matched intelligence? There was no
study, you are fun to tease along with your perch partner, the other parrot,
Phil.

>> I have done what I came to do, and bit you farewell, Mr. Snead. It's been
a treat
 leading you hither and yon while extracting admissions of ignorance, bigotry
and
 plain, old fashioned stupidity from your mouth.
 *****All of this time I thought that you were a Jew and it finally slipped
out...You are black...you want to "bit me farewell" or did you mean "bid"? I
am surprised that you didn't want to "axe" me more questions.You speak of my
ignorance and bigotry as though you think that I am just like you. Go
figure....No wait you are terrible at math.I hope that you are a man of your
word and that I never have to read anything else you may attempt to say.
Unfortunately, I don't believe you because all Jews are liars anyway. But let
me "bit" you farewell too.  Sammy Davis...hehehe
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
      ><>



Subject: [13texan] Re: The Holocaust - A Convergence of Evidence
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:39:51 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com
CC: gormanh@home.com

In a message dated 9/30/99 6:38:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
writes:

<< SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

 [Nothing of interest]

 I would like to thank you for participating in this study,
 ******You are welcome and I hope what I have said will persuade you to leave
young innocent Goyim girls alone and that you may walk henceforth in the
straight and narrow.

Mr. Snead. I could not have hoped for a better example of the true meaning of
bigotry if I had advertised.
********I personally have not seen anything like this before Mr. Gorman and
you definitely are a fine example of bigotry....

 I am so pleased that, unlike your other "Christian" Identity kennelmates, you
 chose not to run away and hide, but to do battle,***playing war are we?***
defending your ignorance and bigotry before the world. The study would have
ended a month ago, were it not for your eager participation.
 *******I see your disappointment is overwhelming and you have resorted back
to your name calling. What is ignorance is the fact that full grown Jew kikes
like little white girls for sexual partners. Let me ask you this....Is it for
the conversation after the sex with evenly matched intelligence? There was no
study, you are fun to tease along with your perch partner, the other parrot,
Phil.

>> I have done what I came to do, and bit you farewell, Mr. Snead. It's been
a treat
 leading you hither and yon while extracting admissions of ignorance, bigotry
and
 plain, old fashioned stupidity from your mouth.
 *****All of this time I thought that you were a Jew and it finally slipped
out...You are black...you want to "bit me farewell" or did you mean "bid"? I
am surprised that you didn't want to "axe" me more questions.You speak of my
ignorance and bigotry as though you think that I am just like you. Go
figure....No wait you are terrible at math.I hope that you are a man of your
word and that I never have to read anything else you may attempt to say.
Unfortunately, I don't believe you because all Jews are liars anyway. But let
me "bit" you farewell too.  Sammy Davis...hehehe
Michael Snead
   14/ABB
      ><>



------------------------------------------------------------------------

eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Subject: The eGroups Gazette, Issue #1
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 06:56:35 -0000
From: "The eGroups.com Team" 
Reply-To: support-announce--gormanh=home.com@egroups.com
To: gormanh@home.com

____________________________________________________________

                  The eGroups Gazette
____________________________________________________________

We would like to thank you, our subscribers, for making
eGroups the best on the Net.  It's because of your
creativity and variety of interests that there are 280,000
awesome eGroups!  We want our registered members to get the
most out of the eGroups site, so we've created this
newsletter to bring you the latest tips and tricks.  Please
come visit us at www.egroups.com and check out our latest
free services!

You are receiving this newsletter because you've registered
with eGroups.com.  To unsubscribe, please send a blank
message to:

support-announce--gormanh=home.com@egroups.com

**************
In This Issue:
**************

-> eGroups Talk: Just Like a Phone Call, only Free!
-> eGroups: A Class Affair
-> Get Organized with eGroups Calendar

======================== Our Sponsor =======================

FREE ADDRESS LABELS FROM iPRINT.COM

Think you can use 300 free address labels?  If you're a new
customer of iPrint.com, click on the link below and create a
personalized set; delivered to your door for just $1.45
shipping and handling!  Great for back-to-school, and of
course, back-of-your-envelope.  Get yours now!
http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/828

============================================================

----- eGroups Talk: Just Like a Phone Call, only Free! -----

Looking for a more personal way to keep in touch over the
Internet?  Now you can carry on live voice conversations
with individuals or groups in your very own eGroups Talk
room.  Best of all, it's FREE - kiss long-distance and
international telephone charges goodbye!

To get started you'll need a Windows 95, 98 or NT computer
with a microphone, speakers and a suitable sound card. Once
you're set up, just click the 'Talk' tab on your My Space
page and type in the email address of the person you'd like
to talk to, once they're logged in.  You can also hold
private conversations with eGroup members by visiting your
favorite eGroup and clicking the 'Talk' tab.

TALK TIP: Try using the Calendar to schedule a time for
group Talk sessions.

Learn all about this new feature on the eGroups Help pages:
http://www.egroups.com/info/help/talk.html

------------------ eGroups: A Class Affair -----------------

The end of summer is here, and for many of us, this means
back-to-school.  Whether you're a teacher returning from
vacation to vocation, or a student returning from coastline
to cosine, one of the best ways to ease into the school year
is with an eGroup!

Use eGroups to get the most out of campus life:
   + Create a class mailing list
   + Schedule practice and game times for your sports team
   + Use the Calendar to organize your class schedule
   + Maintain an alumni network for your alma mater

Here are some examples of eGroups created by users for life
at school:

Model United Nations E-News
http://www.egroups.com/group/mun-e-news/info.html
This mailing list enables members of the Model United
Nations to keep in touch with teachers, friends and other
participants in the Model UN community.

College Music Update Chat
http://www.egroups.com/group/cmuchat/info.html
An eGroup for readers of College Music Update (CMU) magazine
- the UK's "fortnightly guide to new music" - connecting
college radio, the press, record labels and fans all over
the UK and beyond.

Collegiate Athletics
http://www.egroups.com/group/collegefootball/info.html
A mailing list dedicated to college athletics, but with
particular emphasis on American college football.

If you're in college, we want YOU.  That's right, eGroups is
looking for a few good men and women to help promote eGroups
- and we're paying!  To become an eGroups student rep for
your college campus, and make some money on the side,
contact us today at studentreps@egroups.com

------------ Get Organized with eGroups Calendar -----------

Are you looking for a simple, flexible way to schedule
personal and group events?  Then try our free Calendar!  The
Calendar is a secure, password-protected environment that's
available from any device with Web access.  You can even
send out automatic email reminders to yourself or your
eGroup for all Calendar events.

To use your private calendar:
   1. Login to eGroups and click My Space
   2. From your My Space page, click Calendar
   3. Click the day and time of your event
   4. Fill in the Name and Description fields, and set the
      time for email reminders, if you like
   5. Click Done

Use your eGroups calendar to:
   + Track repeat events
   + Synchronize your personal and group calendars using the
     'overlay' feature.
   + Manage your eGroup's schedule with daily, weekly or
     monthly viewing options
   + Send automatic reminders notifying yourself or eGroup
     members about upcoming events

So what are you waiting for, get started today:
http://www.egroups.com/listman?method=display_startnewlist

============================================================

                            *****

We would love to hear about the creative ways in which
you're using eGroups.  If you have an interesting story,
please send it to us at egp-stories@egroups.com so we can
share it with your fellow eGroups users.  Please note that
we may forward it on to our Public Relations department as
well.  Hope to hear from you soon!

Thanks,
Josh Fisher - Editor

============================================================
If you wish to stop receiving this newsletter at any time,
please send a blank message to:

support-announce--gormanh=home.com@egroups.com

Subject: [13texan] How The Jews Murdered the Jews in the Holocaust
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:00:46 -0000
From: "eGroups Calendar" <13texan@egroups.com>
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Reminder from the 13texan calendar at eGroups.com

Event: How The Jews Murdered the Jews in the Holocaust
URL:   http://www.egroups.com/cal?listname=13texan&md=d&day=10850
Date:  Fri Oct 01, 1999
Time:

Explains how the Holocaust was a fraud perpetuated by the Jews....in the name of Zionism......how many Americans died in that WWII liberating Jews from themselves.

The eGroups.com Team
---
FREE Web-based e-mail groups!
http://www.egroups.com

Subject: [13texan] Book Review of Lethal Laws, by JPFO.htm
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:01:00 -0500
From: "John Simmons" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>



     Book Review of Lethal Laws
     [Image]
     [JPFO Logo]

     Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc.
     P.O. Box 270143
     Hartford, WI 53027

     Phone (262) 673-9745
     Fax (262) 673-9746

     ------------------------------------------------------------------

                                Lethal Laws!

     ------------------------------------------------------------------

     JPFO RESEARCH: GOVERNMENT GENOCIDE CAMPAIGNS AND THE "GUN CONTROL"
                LAWS THAT HELPED SLAUGHTER 56 MILLION PEOPLE
                                                        DATE OF
      PERPETRATOR                          # MURDERED   GUN     SOURCE
      GOVERNMENT DATE      TARGET          (ESTIMATED)  CONTROL DOCUMENT
                                                        LAW
                                                                Art. 166,
      Ottoman                              1-1.5        1886    Penal Code
      Turkey     1915-1917 Armenians       million      1911    Art. 166
                                                                Penal Code
      Soviet               Anti-Communists                      Art. 182
      Union*     1929-1953 Anti-Stalinists 20 million   1929    Penal Code
                                                                Law on
      Nazi                                                      Firearms
      Germany**            Jews, Gypsies,               1928    &
      & Occupied 1933-1945 Anti-Nazis      13 million   1938    Ammunition,
      Europe                                                    April 12
                                                                Weapons Law,
                                                                March 18
                           Anti-Communists                      Arts. 186-7,
                 1949-1952 Rural                                Penal Code
      China*     1957-1960 Populations     20 million   1935    Art. 9,
                 1966-1976 Pro-Reform                   1957    Security
                           Group                                Law, Oct. 22
                                                                Decree 36,
      Guatemala  1960-1981 Maya Indians    100,000      1871    Nov 25
                                                        1964    Decree 283,
                                                                Oct 27
                           Christians                           Firearms
      Uganda     1971-1979 Political       300,000      1955    Ordinance
                           Rivals                       1970    Firearms Act

      Cambodia   1975-1979 Educated        1 million    1956    Arts. 322-8,
                           Persons                              Penal Code

     * The law(s) mentioned are part of an older/or wider body of law
     on and regulation of private firearms ownership
     ** For a complete translation of these laws, including regulations
     specifically banning Jews from owning any weapons and a
     side-by-side comparison of the Nazi Weapons Law with the U.S. Gun
     Control Act of 1968, see "Gun Control": Gateway to Tyranny, J.E.
     Simkin & A. Zelman, 1992; available from JPFO

     ------------------------------------------------------------------

               Click here to Purchase the Book, "Lethal Laws"

                                   [Image]

               Click here to Purchase the Book, "Lethal Laws"

     ------------------------------------------------------------------

     Copyright © 1995 David B. Kopel.

     Originally published in the New York Law School Journal of
     International and Comparative Law, 1995, Vol. 15, pages 355-398.

     Lethal Laws. By Jay Simkin, Aaron Zelman, & Alan M. Rice. Jews for
     the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, P.O. Box 270143, Hartford,
     WI 53027 (262) 673-9745

                         Reviewed by David B. Kopel

        "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him first."
                               The Talmud. [1]

     This book ought to be a non-controversial item that will quickly
     find its way onto the shelves of all libraries with an interest in
     international law. The authors' method is quite standard: a
     compilation from seven nations of statutes on a particular
     subject. The translation of the statutes into English is
     meticulous, and each of the statutes is accompanied by commentary
     explaining its significance. [2]

     In addition, as the legal academy works to improve itself at
     hearing voices which have too long been ignored, this book makes a
     profound effort to bring to our attention the lives of people,
     such as persecuted ethnic minorities, who have been marginalized
     by scholarly research.

     But in fact, this book will likely be bought by few law school
     libraries. It is unlikely to be reviewed in the usual
     international law journals, because in a number of ways, the book
     is so politically incorrect.

     What is "wrong" with this book? First, its lead author is an
     economist, not a law professor or even an attorney. Second, the
     topic of the book is gun control statutes in nations which have
     perpetrated genocide in the twentieth century. Third, the book's
     insistent thesis is that gun control paves the way for genocide.

                               I. The Nations

     The core of the book--the translations of the various foreign
     laws--is excellent, and should serve as a model for similar books
     on other subjects. On the even-numbered pages are photocopies of
     the foreign laws. On the odd-numbered, facing pages, are English
     translations of the laws. The foreign statutes are photocopied
     from foreign statute books. Copies of the cover and publication
     information pages from the foreign statute books are provided as
     well. This approach encourages the most accurate translations,
     since any person who can read the language of the foreign statute
     can instantly verify the accuracy of the translation. Meticulous
     citations make the book all the more credible and valuable as a
     reference work.

     While the authors do an excellent job in compiling the various
     foreign statutes (many of which, such as Ottoman Empire statutes
     from 1860, are quite obscure), the authors run into a serious
     difficulty as they attempt to analyze the various gun laws in
     their historical context in each nation. As the authors
     acknowledge, only the Nazi genocide has been carefully
     investigated. [3] The victims of most of the other genocides were
     much less likely than European Jews to be able to write Western
     languages (or to be able to write at all). Accordingly, they were
     less able to leave any kind of record for history. Likewise, most
     genocidal regimes of the twentieth century were considerably less
     devoted than the Nazis were in recording their own activities.

     Let us now turn to the individual nations whose gun control laws
     and genocide records form the core of Lethal Laws.

                                 A. Armenia

     After the government of the Ottoman Empire quickly crushed an
     Armenian revolt in 1893, tens of thousands of Armenians were
     murdered by mobs armed and encouraged by the government. As
     anti-Armenian mobs were being armed, the government attempted to
     convince Armenians to surrender their guns. [4] A 1903 law banned
     the manufacture or import of gunpowder without government
     permission. [5] In 1910, manufacturing or importing weapons
     without government permission, as well as carrying weapons or
     ammunition without permission was forbidden. [6]

     During World War I, in February 1915, local officials in each
     Armenian district were ordered to surrender quotas of firearms.
     When officials surrendered the required number, they were executed
     for conspiracy against the government. When officials could not
     surrender enough weapons from their community, the officials were
     executed for stockpiling weapons. Armenian homes were also
     searched, and firearms confiscated. Many of these mountain
     dwellers had kept arms despite prior government efforts to disarm
     them. [7]

     The genocide against Armenians began with the April 24, 1915
     announcement that Armenians would be deported to the interior. The
     announcement came while the Ottoman government was desperately
     afraid of an Allied attack that would turn Turkey's war against
     Russia into a two-front war. In fact, British troops landed at
     Gallipoli in western Turkey the next day. Although the
     Anglo-Russian offensives failed miserably, the Armenian genocide
     continued for the next two years. [8] Some of the genocide was
     accomplished by shooting or cutting down Armenian men. The bulk of
     the 1 to 1.5 million Armenian deaths, however, occurred during the
     forced marches to the interior. Although the marches were
     ostensibly for the purpose of protecting the Armenians through
     relocation, the actual purpose was to make the marches so
     difficult (for example, by not providing any food) that survival
     was impossible. [9]

     The Armenian genocide differs from the six other genocides
     detailed in Lethal Laws in one important respect. Although many
     Armenians apparently complied with the gun control laws and the
     deportation orders, some did not. For example, in southern Syria
     (then part of the Ottoman Empire), "the Armenians refused to
     submit to the deportation order . . . . Retreating into the hills,
     they took up a strategic position and organized an impregnable
     defense. The Turks attacked and were repulsed with huge losses.
     They proceeded to lay siege." [10] Eventually 4,000 survivors of
     the siege were rescued by the British and French. [11] These
     Armenians who grabbed their guns and headed for the hills are the
     converse to the vast numbers of Armenian and other genocide
     victims in Lethal Laws who submitted quietly; although many of the
     Armenian fighters doubtless died from lack of medical care,
     starvation, or gunfire, so did many of the Armenians who
     submitted. As was the case of the Jewish resistance during World
     War II, armed resistance was enormously risky, but the resisters
     had a far higher survival rate than the submitters.

                               B. Soviet Union

     As the authors note, the Bolsheviks were a minority of Communists
     in a vast and disparate nation where Communists themselves were a
     tiny minority. It should not be surprising that the Bolsheviks
     worked hard to ensure that any person potentially hostile to them
     did not possess arms. [12]

     The first Soviet gun controls were imposed during the Russian
     Civil War, as Czarists, Western troops, and national independence
     movements battled the central Red regime. Firearm registration was
     introduced on April 1, 1918. [13] On August 30, Fanny Kaplan
     supposedly wounded Lenin during an assassination attempt; the
     attempted assassination spurred a nationwide reign of terror. [14]
     In October 1918, the Council of People's Commissars (the
     government) ordered the surrender of all firearms, ammunition, and
     sabres. [15] As has been the case in almost every nation where
     firearms registration has been introduced, registration proved a
     prelude to confiscation. Exempt from the confiscation order,
     however, were members of the Communist Party. [16] A 1920 decree
     imposed a mandatory minimum penalty of six months in prison for
     (non-Communist) possession of a firearm, even where there was no
     criminal intent. [17]

     After the Red victory in the Civil War, the firearms laws were
     consolidated in a Criminal Code, which provided that unauthorized
     possession of a firearm would be punishable by hard labor. [18] A
     1925 law made unauthorized possession of a firearm punishable by
     three months of hard labor, plus a fine of 300 rubles (equal to
     about four months' wages for a highly-paid construction worker).
     [19]

     Stalin apparently found little need to change the weapons control
     structure he had inherited. His only contributions were a 1935 law
     making illegal carrying of a knife punishable by five years in
     prison and a decree of that same year extending "all penalties,
     including death, down to twelve-year-old children." [20]

     This chapter of Lethal Laws summarizes the genocide perpetrated by
     Stalin from 1929 to 1953, starting with his efforts to
     collectivize farming by destroying the class of property-owning
     farmers. Altogether, about twenty million people were murdered,
     worked to death in slave labor camps, or deliberately starved to
     death by Stalin's government. From 1929 to 1939, Stalin killed
     about ten million people, more than all the people who died during
     the entirety of World War I. Stalin's successful campaign of
     genocide against the Kulaks and against dissident Communists
     served as a model for similar campaigns in China and Cambodia.
     [21]

                                 C. Germany

     German gun control laws are the authors' area of expertise. Mr.
     Simkin and Mr. Zelman have previously written a book analyzing the
     Weimar and Nazi gun laws in great detail. [22] The German chapter
     in Lethal Laws contains the most relevant statutes and
     regulations, but does not include gun registration forms and
     similar materials found in the previous book. Because Lethal Laws
     does contain more analysis of the German gun laws in their social
     context, Lethal Laws is the more valuable book to anyone except a
     specialist in German law.

     After Germany's defeat in World War I, the democratic Weimar
     government, fearing (with good cause) efforts by Communists or the
     militaristic right to overthrow the government, ordered the
     surrender of all firearms. Governmental efforts to disarm the
     civilian population--in part to comply with the Versailles
     Treaty--apparently ended in 1921. [23]

     The major German gun control law (which was not replaced by the
     Nazis until 1938) was enacted by a center-right government in
     1928. [24] The law required a permit to acquire a gun or
     ammunition and a permit to carry a firearm. Firearm and ammunition
     dealers were required to obtain permits to sell and to keep a
     register of their sales. Also, persons who owned guns that did not
     have a serial number were ordered to have the dealer or
     manufacturer stamp a serial number on them. Permits to acquire
     guns and ammunition were to be granted only to persons of
     "undoubted reliability," [25] and carry permits were to be given
     "only if a demonstration of need is set forth." [26] Apparently
     police discretion cut very heavily against permit applicants. For
     example, in the town of Northeim, only nine hunting permits were
     issued to a population of 10,000 people. [27]

     In 1931, amidst rising gang violence (the gangs being Nazi and
     Communist youths), carrying knives or truncheons in public was
     made illegal, except for persons who had firearm carry permits
     under the 1928 law. Acquisition of firearms and ammunition permits
     was made subject to proof of "need." [28]

     When the Nazis took power in 1933, they apparently found that the
     1928 gun control laws served their purposes; not until 1938 did
     the Nazis bother to replace the 1928 law. The leaving of the
     Weimar law in place cannot be attributed to lethargy on the Nazis'
     part; unlike some other totalitarian governments (such as the
     Khmer Rouge in Cambodia), the Nazis paid great attention to legal
     draftsmanship and issued a huge volume of laws and regulations.
     [29] The only immediate change the Nazis made to the gun laws was
     to bar the import of handguns. [30]

     Shortly after the Nazis took power, they began house-to-house
     searches to discover firearms in the homes of suspected opponents.
     They claimed to find large numbers of weapons in the hands of
     subversives. [31] How many weapons the Nazis actually recovered
     may never be known. But as historian William Sheridan Allen
     pointed out in his study of the Nazi rise to power in one town:
     "Whether or not all the weapon discoveries reported in the local
     press were authentic is unimportant. The newspapers reported
     whatever they were told by the police, and what people believed
     was what was more important than what was true." [32]

     Four days after Hitler's triumphant Anschluss of Austria in March
     1938, the Nazis finally enacted their own firearms laws.
     Additional controls were layered on the 1928 Weimar law: Persons
     under eighteen were forbidden to buy firearms or ammunition; a
     special permit was introduced for handguns; Jews were barred from
     businesses involving firearms; Nazi officials were exempted from
     the firearms permit system; silencers were outlawed; twenty-two
     caliber cartridges with hollow points were banned; and firearms
     which could fold or break down "beyond the common limits of
     hunting and sporting activities" became illegal. [33]

     On November 9, 1938 and into the next morning, the Nazis unleashed
     a nationwide race riot. Mobs inspired by the government attacked
     Jews in their homes, looted Jewish businesses, and burned
     synagogues, with no interference from the police. [34] The riot
     became known as "Kristallnacht" ("night of broken glass"). [35] On
     November 11, Hitler issued a decree forbidding Jews to possess
     firearms, knives, or truncheons under any circumstances, and to
     surrender them immediately. [36]

     Nazi mass murders of Jews began after the invasion of the Soviet
     Union. Extermination camps were not set up until late 1941, so
     mass murder was at first accomplished by special S.S. units,
     Einsatzgruppen, on June 22, 1941. Working closely with regular
     army units, the Einsatzgruppen would move swiftly into
     newly-conquered areas, to prevent Jews from fleeing. In some
     cases, Jews were ordered to register with the authorities, an act
     which made them easy to locate for murder shortly thereafter. As
     noted above, most of the Soviet population had been disarmed by
     Lenin and Stalin or had never possessed arms in the first place.
     [37] Raul Hilberg, a leading scholar of the Nazi military,
     summarizes that

          The killers were well armed, they knew what to do, and
          they worked swiftly. The victims were unarmed,
          bewildered, and followed orders. . . . It is significant
          that the Jews allowed themselves to be shot without
          resistance. In all reports of the Einsatzgruppen there
          were few references to "incidents." The killing units
          never lost a man during a shooting operation. . . .
          [T]he Jews remained paralyzed after their first brush
          with death and in spite of advance knowledge of their
          fate. [38]

     How could Jews with "advance knowledge of their fate" allow
     themselves to be murdered? The authors suggest that

          These Jews' passivity doubtless was the result of
          centuries of victimization in Russia. They had come to
          believe that being victimized was normal. In most cases
          in Jewish experience, the victimizers were satisfied
          after the first few victims. In such situations,
          resisting was likely to prolong the victimization, and
          thus to increase the number of victims. Most Jews did
          not realize that the Nazis were different. Most Jews did
          not realize the Nazis had no use for living Jews.

          On top of this tendency to accept being victimized,
          twenty years of Communist rule--of which Stalin's terror
          had occupied ten years--had shown Jews that failure to
          obey orders was a fatal mistake. [39]

     Although many Jews remained passive throughout the Holocaust, some
     did not. In 1943, the Nazis attempted to commence the liquidation
     of the Warsaw ghetto. [40] But as the Nazis moved in, members of
     the Jewish Fighting Organization opened fire. "[T]he shock of
     encountering resistance evidently forced the Germans to
     discontinue their work in order to make more thorough
     preparations." [41] The revolt continued, leading Goebbels to note
     in his diary: "This just shows what you can expect from Jews if
     they lay hands on weapons." [42] Although the Jews of the Warsaw
     ghetto were eventually defeated, the Warsaw battle was perhaps the
     most significant ever for the Jews, according to Raul Hilberg: "In
     Jewish history, the battle is literally a revolution, for after
     two thousand years of a policy of submission the wheel had been
     turned and once again Jews were using force." [43]

     There were other Jewish uprisings; even in the death camps of
     Sobibor and Treblinka, Jews seized arms from the Nazi guards and
     attempted to escape. A few succeeded, and more significantly, the
     camps were closed prematurely. [44] The authors do not attempt to
     tell the complete story of Jewish guerilla resistance during World
     War II. [45]

     The German chapter is the most successful in the book. The
     perpetrators and the victims of Naziism both left extensive
     written records, allowing Simkin, Zelman, and Rice to integrate
     their always-strong textual analysis of the gun laws with a
     discussion of the actual impact of the laws on the lives of
     victims. [46]

                                  D. China

     The China chapter is much less enlightening, mostly because the
     victims of Mao's genocide, unlike Hitler's, left much less of a
     record for Western historians to uncover. While many scholars
     agree that about one million people were murdered during the
     Cultural Revolution (1966-1976), the number of people who were
     starved to death by Mao's communization of the economy from 1957
     to 1960 ("the Great Leap Forward") might be as low as one million,
     or as high as thirty million. [47]

     Mao, like Hitler, inherited gun control from his predecessor's
     regime. [48] A 1912 Chinese law made it illegal to import or
     possess rifles, cannons, or explosives without a permit. [49] The
     law was apparently aimed at the warlords who were contesting the
     central government's authority; Chinese peasants were far too poor
     to afford guns. [50] Communist gun control was not enacted until
     1957, when the National People's Congress outlawed the
     manufacture, repair, purchase, or possession of any firearm or
     ammunition "in contravention of safety provisions." [51]

                                E. Guatemala

     Perhaps the most overlooked genocide of the twentieth century has
     been the Guatemalan government's campaign against its Indian
     population. One reason that the genocide has attracted little
     attention may be that the Guatemalan government has been friendly
     to the United States.

     Gun control in Guatemala has always been intimately tied to the
     military's determination to maintain itself as the dominant
     institution in society. [52] After taking power with a
     revolutionary army of just forty-five men, the Guatemalan
     government of 1871 speedily decreed the registration of all "new
     model" firearms. [53] Registered guns were subject to impoundment
     whenever the government thought necessary. [54] In 1873, firearms
     sales were prohibited, and firearms owners were required to turn
     their guns over to the government. [55]

     Apparently, the enforcement of the 1873 law began to wane. In
     1923, General Jose Orellana, who had taken power in a coup a few
     years before, put into force a comprehensive gun control decree.
     [56] The law barred most firearms imports, outlawed the carrying
     of guns in towns (except by government officials), required a
     license for carrying guns "on the public roads and railways," set
     the fee for a carry license high enough so as to be beyond the
     reach of poor people, and prohibited ownership of any gun that
     could fire a military caliber cartridge. [57]

     In 1944, two officers led a revolt against the military
     government. [58] "Distributing arms to students and civilian
     supporters, they soon gained control of the city [Guatemala City,
     the capital], and two days later Ponce [the dictator] resigned,
     though not before nearly a hundred people had died in the sporadic
     fighting." [59] The first free elections in half a century were
     held. [60] The new government did not eliminate the gun control
     laws, but it did regularize the issuance of carry permits by
     specifying that the permits would be issued to an applicant who
     could "prove his good character by means of testimonials from two
     persons of known honesty." [61]

     In 1952, the democratically-elected government of Jacobo Arbenz
     began an agrarian reform plan that expropriated large uncultivated
     estates. [62] Compensation was based on the taxable value of the
     land. The United Fruit Company was angry at the seizure of 386,000
     acres of the company's reserve land in exchange for what the
     company considered inadequate compensation. [63] In June 1954, a
     force of Guatemalan exiles, trained by the CIA, invaded Guatemala
     from Honduras. [64] "Unable accurately to assess the situation in
     the capital, Arbenz resolved to do as he had done in 1944 and
     distribute weapons to the workers for the defense of the
     government. The army refused to obey, and on 27 June, Arbenz
     resigned . . . ." [65]

     Contrary to the assertion of the authors, [66] it is unclear
     whether total repeal of the gun controls a decade before would
     have saved the democratic government. Firearms at a free-market
     price might still have been beyond the financial reach of the
     peasants and students in a very poor country. What might have made
     a difference, however, is the actual distribution of surplus
     military arms for free to the citizens of Guatemala while the
     democratic regime was in power. [67] But such a policy was not
     implemented, and for all practical purposes, the military retained
     a monopoly of force. As the authors note, the monopoly "made
     Arbenz, a duly elected President, serve at the Military's
     pleasure. When they wanted him to go, he went." [68]

     In November 1960, reformist military officers attempted a coup and
     garnered the support of about half the army. [69] Peasants,
     wanting to fight for their own land, asked the rebels for guns so
     that the peasants could join the battle; the rebels refused. [70]
     The coup was finally crushed by loyalist forces who were supported
     by the United States. [71] From the 1960s to the 1980s, the
     Guatemalan government found itself engaged in perpetual
     counterinsurgency campaigns. As part of these campaigns,
     right-wing terror squads were unleashed to murder suspected
     subversives, although regular army units also participated
     extensively. [72] Approximately 100,000 Mayan Indians were
     murdered by the government during this period. [73]

     Amnesty International has waged a long and courageous campaign
     against human rights abuses in Guatemala. [74] The authors
     reviewing Amnesty International's proposals for restoring human
     rights to Guatemala, note that the group nowhere advocates
     recognition of a strong legal right to arms or the arming of the
     victim populations. [75] Instead, Amnesty argues that the
     government should control itself better:

          The government should also thoroughly review the present
          method of reporting and certifying violent deaths,
          particularly those resulting from actions taken by any
          person in an official capacity. The aim of such an
          inquiry should be to create procedures which will ensure
          that such deaths are reported to the authorities, who
          then impartially investigate the circumstances and
          causes of the deaths. All efforts should be made to
          identify the unidentified bodies that are found in the
          country and frequently buried only as "xx", in order to
          determine time, place and manner of death and whether a
          criminal act has been committed. [76]

     Is the Amnesty proposal realistic? "It seems absurd," write
     Simkin, Zelman, and Rice, "to appeal to so blood-drenched a
     government to 'impartially investigate' atrocities its officials
     have committed." [77]

     The failure of the Guatemalan government to prosecute its agents
     for perpetrating government-sponsored genocide suggests that hopes
     for domestic legal reform may be of little use in actually
     stopping genocide. As the next two chapters illustrate,
     international law may be of little greater practical efficacy.

                                  F. Uganda

     If international organizations such as the United Nations were
     ever going to intervene to stop a genocide in progress, Uganda in
     the 1970s would have been the ideal spot. Ugandan dictator Idi
     Amin was a world pariah with no powerful allies. He was generally
     regarded as insane (perhaps from advanced venereal disease) and
     his army was, by world power standards, pitiful. [78] From 1990 to
     1991, the United States assembled and led a worldwide coalition
     which easily drove Iraqi conquerors out of Kuwait. [79] A
     multinational coalition conquest of Uganda would have been all the
     easier, since Idi Amin's army was tiny compared to Saddam
     Hussein's war machine. [80] Kuwait, however, was a strategic oil
     resource, [81] while Uganda had few resources other than the
     Ugandan people who were being slaughtered by their government.
     Although the existence of the Ugandan genocide was
     well-established as it was being perpetrated, the possibility of a
     multinational campaign to oust Idi Amin was never even a topic for
     serious discussion, whereas discussion about the reconquest of
     Kuwait began days after Iraqi tanks entered Kuwait. [82]

     Not once in this century has one nation or a coalition of nations
     launched a military action to stop a genocide in progress. It is
     true that wars have sometimes led to a genocidal regime being
     deposed; Tanzania ousted Amin, and the Allies defeated Hitler. But
     Tanzania and the Allies acted only because their territory had
     been invaded, not because they were moved to action by reports of
     the murders within Uganda or within Nazi Germany.

     Notably, even when the Allies were engaged in all-out war against
     Hitler, they refused to take military action against the
     extermination camps, such as by bombing the rail lines that led to
     them. [83] As historian Raul Hilberg writes, "The Allied nations
     who were at war with Germany did not come to the aid of Germany's
     victims. The Jews of Europe had no allies. In its gravest hour
     Jewry stood alone, and the realization of that desertion came as a
     shock to Jewish leaders all over the world." [84] The people of
     Uganda likewise stood alone from 1971 to 1979, when Idi Amin's
     dictatorship killed about 300,000 people, roughly 2.3% of the
     total population. [85]

     The authors began their study of Ugandan gun laws with a 1955
     statute promulgated by the British imperial government, although
     this gun control law may not have been Uganda's first. [86]
     Although the British/Ugandan law had the length and complexity
     typical of modern statutes, the essence was a provision requiring
     that a person could only possess a firearm if he had a permit, and
     the permit would be granted by the police only upon a
     discretionary finding regarding the applicant's "fitness" to
     possess a firearm. [87]

     Uganda achieved independence in 1962, [88] keeping the structure
     of the Colonial gun laws intact. In 1966, Milton Obote assumed
     dictatorial powers. In 1969, Obote tightened the gun laws,
     imposing a nationwide ban on firearms and ammunition possession,
     making exceptions only for government officials and for persons
     granted an exemption by the government. [89] In 1970, the 1955
     British gun law was recodified, with some minor changes. [90]

     Idi Amin took power in 1971, and the mass murders began shortly
     thereafter. The nation's large Asian population was expelled (not
     murdered), and in the process the Ugandan government seized
     approximately a billion dollars' worth of the Asians' property.
     [91] The main targets of the Ugandan government's mass murders
     were members of tribes whom Amin perceived as a threat to his
     power. [92] Because Uganda had far less of an infrastructure than
     Nazi Germany, the murders were perpetrated mostly by bands of
     soldiers who shot their victims, rather than through extermination
     camps. [93]

     Amin's army numbered about 25,000 and his secret police--the
     "State Research Bureau"--only 3,000. [94] The army was
     ill-disciplined and incompetent, and collapsed not long after Amin
     began his ill-advised war against Tanzania in late 1978. [95] How
     could such a small and pathetic army get away with mass murder
     against a nation of thirteen million people? Is it possible that a
     disarmed Ugandan population was easier to murder than an armed
     one?

     Idi Amin, by the way, now lives in Saudi Arabia. [96] As far as I
     know, there has been no effort to extradite him and put him on
     trial for murder. With the exceptions of the rulers of the nations
     that lost World War II, none of the perpetrators of genocide in
     the 20th century have been prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

                                 G. Cambodia

     Also enjoying a comfortable post-genocide life is Pol Pot, the
     perpetrator of the best known mass-murders of the post-World War
     II era.

     Cambodian gun control was a legacy of French colonialism. [97] A
     series of Royal Ordinances, decreed by a monarchy subservient to
     the French, appears to have been enacted out of fear of the
     Communist and anti-colonial insurgencies that were taking place in
     the 1920s and 1930s throughout Southeast Asia, although not in
     Cambodia. [98] The first law, in 1920, dealt with the carrying of
     guns, while the last law in the series, in 1938, imposed a strict
     licensing system. [99] Only hunters could have guns, and they were
     allowed to own only a single firearm. [100] These colonial laws
     appear to have stayed in place after Cambodia was granted
     independence. The Khmer Rouge enacted no new gun control laws, for
     they enacted no laws at all other than a Constitution. [101]

     Cambodia was a poor country, and few people could afford guns.
     [102] On the other hand, the chaos that accompanies any war might
     have given some Cambodians the opportunity to acquire firearms
     from corrupt or dead soldiers. There is no solid evidence about
     how many Cambodians, with no cultural history of firearms
     ownership, attempted to do so. [103]

     As soon as the Khmer Rouge took power, they immediately set out to
     disarm the populace. One Cambodian recalls that

          Eang [a woman] watched soldiers stride onto the porches
          of the houses and knock on the doors and ask the people
          who answered if they had any weapons. "We are here now
          to protect you," the soldiers said, "and no one has a
          need for a weapon any more." People who said that they
          kept no weapons were forced to stand aside and allow the
          soldiers to look for themselves. . . . The round-up of
          weapons took nine or ten days, and once the soldiers had
          concluded the villagers were no longer armed, they
          dropped their pretense of friendliness. . . . The
          soldiers said everyone would have to leave the village
          for a while, so that the troops could search for
          weapons; when the search was finished, they could
          return. [104]

     People being forced out of villages and cities were searched
     thoroughly, and weapons and foreign currency were confiscated.
     [105] To the limited extent that Cambodians owned guns through the
     government licensing system, the names of registered gun owners
     were of course available to the new government. [106]

     The Cambodian genocide was unique in the twentieth century, in
     that its target was not a single ethnic, religious, or political
     group, but rather the entire educated populace. Lacking
     infrastructure for sophisticated Nazi-style extermination camps,
     the Khmer Rouge used the genocide methods which had been used by
     the Turkish government (internal deportations with forced marches
     designed to kill), the Soviet government (hard labor under
     conditions likely to kill), and the Guatemalan government (murders
     of targeted victims). [107]

     Like other victims of genocide, the Cambodians forced into slave
     labor were kept so desperately hungry that revolt became difficult
     to contemplate, as every thought focused on food. One slave
     laborer explained that

          There was no possibility of an uprising. . . . Contact
          between many people was made impossible by the chlops
          [informers] . . . . Besides, we had no arms and no food.
          Even if we'd been able to produce arms and kill the
          fifty Khmer Rouge in the village, what would happen to
          us? We didn't have enough food to build up any reserves
          to sustain a guerilla army. In our state of weakness,
          after a few days wandering in the jungle, death would
          have been inevitable. [108]

     The authors estimate that Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge murdered
     about a million people, at least 14% of the Cambodian population.
     [109] The percentage was about the same as the percentage of the
     Soviet population murdered by Stalin, except that Pol Pot
     accomplished in three-and-a-half years what took Stalin twenty.
     [110]

     The mass murders of the Khmer Rouge became well-known in the
     international community, but no nation made an effort to try to
     rescue the Cambodian people. Finally, Pol Pot was driven from
     power by a Vietnamese invasion that was motivated by imperialist,
     rather than humanitarian reasons. [111]

     Pol Pot's fate was thus similar to Idi Amin's: the world would
     tolerate genocide, but threatening the borders of a neighboring
     country would lead to the regime's demise. According to the New
     York Times, "Pol Pot is today a free, prosperous and apparently
     unrepentant man who, 15 years after his ouster from Phnom Penh,
     continues to plot a return to power. The calls for some sort of
     international genocide tribunal for Pol Pot and his aides have not
     been heard for years." [112]

     The authors have demonstrated that every nation in the twentieth
     century which has perpetrated genocide has chosen a victim
     population which was disarmed. If the intended victims were not
     already "gun-free," then the murderous governments first got rid
     of the guns before they attempted to begin the killing.

                        II. Is Resistance Practical?

     The most common argument against an armed population as an
     antidote to genocide is that, in the late twentieth century, the
     balance of power between governments and the people has tipped
     decisively towards the government side. How can a rag-tag
     collection of citizens with rifles, pistols, and shotguns hope to
     resist a modern standing army with artillery, helicopters, tanks,
     jets, and nuclear weapons? Such a question is most frequently
     posed by persons who have neither personal nor intellectual
     familiarity with the military or with guerilla warfare. If we
     actually try to answer the question, rather than just presuming
     the government will win, then the case for the uselessness of
     citizen resistance becomes weak indeed.

     First, the purpose of civilian small arms in any kind of
     resistance scenario is not to defeat the federal army in a pitched
     battle, and then triumphantly march into Washington, D.C. Citizen
     militias and other popular forces, such as guerilla cadres, have
     rarely been strong enough to defeat a professional army in a
     head-on battle. Guerilla warfare aims to conduct quick surprise
     raids on the enemy, at a time and place of the guerillas'
     choosing. Almost as soon as the first casualties have been
     inflicted, the guerillas flee, before the army can bring its
     superior firepower to bear.

     In the early years of a guerilla war, as Mao Tse-Tung explained,
     before guerrillas are strong enough to attack a professional army
     head on, heavy weapons are a detriment, impeding the guerrillas'
     mobility. As a war progresses, the guerrillas use ordinary
     firearms to capture better small arms and eventually heavy
     equipment. [113]

     The military history of the twentieth century shows rather clearly
     that if guerillas are willing to wage a prolonged war, they can be
     quite successful. As one author notes that

          Far from proving invincible, in the vast majority of
          cases in this century in which they have confronted
          popular insurgencies, modern armies have been unable to
          suppress the insurgents. This is why the British no
          longer rule in Israel and Ireland, the French in
          Indo-China, Algeria, and Madagascar, the Portuguese in
          Angola, the whites in Rhodesia, or General Somoza,
          General Battista, or the Shah in Nicaragua, Cuba, and
          Iran respectively--not to mention the examples of the
          United States in Vietnam and the Soviet Union in
          Afghanistan. [114]

     Moreover, guerillas need not overthrow a government in order to
     accomplish their purposes. During World War II, Yugoslav partisans
     did not directly overthrow the occupying Nazi government, but they
     did tie down a large fraction of the entire German army, leaving
     the German armies in the Eastern, Western, and Mediterranean
     fronts that much weaker. As the war ended, the presence of a
     well-equipped popular fighting force, ready to assume power,
     helped convince the advancing Soviet armies not to move into
     Yugoslavia, and consequently set the foundation for a Yugoslavia
     that would, relative to the rest of Eastern Europe, be less
     subject to a Soviet sphere of influence.

     A popular guerilla resistance can also deprive an occupying
     government of much or all of the economic benefit that would
     normally be gained by occupation. And perhaps most importantly for
     purposes of this Article, an armed populace can ensure that any
     efforts to kill people or to send them to prisons and
     concentrations camps carry a price that must be paid by the
     government. If the Jews of Nazi-occupied Europe had shot the Nazi
     soldiers who came to herd them onto cattle cars, the Jews would
     still have been killed, but so would some of the Nazis. Would the
     Nazis have had such an easy time sending soldiers into the ghettos
     to collect the Jews if the soldiers knew that some of them would
     not come back alive? If the kind of people who specialize in
     perpetrating genocide are bullies by nature, how many bullies are
     willing to take a chance of getting shot by the intended victim?
     If potential massacre victims can plausibly threaten to harm at
     least a few of their attackers, then the calculus of the attackers
     may change dramatically. As Sanford Levinson notes, it is not
     implausible to argue that

          "[I]f all the Chinese citizens kept arms, their rulers
          would hardly have dared to massacre the [Tiananmen
          Square] demonstrators. . . ." It is simply silly to
          respond that small arms are irrelevant against
          nuclear-armed states . . . . A state facing a totally
          disarmed population is in a far better position, for
          good or for ill, to suppress popular demonstrations and
          uprisings than one that must calculate the possibilities
          of its soldiers and officials being injured or killed.
          [115]

     Finally, even in cases where resistance saves not a single
     victim's life, resistance is still better than submission. Lloyd
     R. Cohen observes that

          Dying even futilely defending yourself, your family, and
          your group has an honor and a dignity to it that is not
          vouchsafed by being helplessly slaughtered. Thus even if
          none had escaped from the Warsaw or Vilna Ghettos or the
          Sobibor extermination camp, those who took vengeance
          there honored themselves, their families, and their
          people. [116]

     Although the American federal government is the best-armed and
     wealthiest in the world, so is the American populace.
     Approximately half of all American households possess a gun. [117]
     In the United States, there is more than one gun for every adult
     American. [118] Hundreds of thousands (or millions) of Americans
     practice "reloading"--the home manufacture of ammunition--as a
     hobby. [119] As of the fall of 1994, commercial American
     ammunition makers were producing well over a million rounds of
     ammunition per day and yet cannot keep up with the immense
     consumer demand. [120] In response to the gun control laws being
     enacted and proposed in 1993 and 1994, the American gun-owning
     public has begun stockpiling weapons and ammunition in quantities
     that may be without historical precedent. [121] Now that Guns and
     Ammo, a magazine with a circulation of half a million, has begun
     publishing tips about how to bury guns for long-term storage, it
     is safe to assume that a rather large number of gun owners are
     putting away a great deal of provisions for a rainy day. [122]

     Everything else that a guerilla army could want is also abundant
     in America: binoculars, camouflage (owned by millions of hunters),
     ham radios and other sophisticated communications equipment, and
     abundant quantities of well-preserved food.

     There is something else in abundance in America that guerillas
     love: a place to hide. The great swamps of the South, the thick
     forests of the Rocky Mountains and the Northwest, and the dense,
     crowded cities throughout the nation are only a few of the
     American locales that would be eminently suitable to providing
     havens for guerilla fighters.

     The American military is also powerful. But, as the authors point
     out, the police and military combined (assuming that every soldier
     and every police officer would assist a genocidal government)
     comprise only about one percent of the U.S. population. [123] Many
     of the modern army's most effective weapons--such as tanks,
     artillery, and helicopters--are easy to deploy in a Kuwaiti
     desert, but considerably less effective in a built-up city.
     Indeed, a million dollar tank can be incapacitated by a Molotov
     Cocktail (a glass bottle filled with gasoline and topped with a
     wick that is lit just before the cocktail is thrown). [124] As a
     last resort, a dictatorial government could initiate nuclear
     warfare, but such a step would risk provoking the non-militant
     fraction of the population into full-scale rebellion, risk
     provoking a faction of the army into attempting a coup, and by
     destroying the bombed area, certainly deprive the government of
     any benefit of controlling the area.

     Finally, the most important benefit of defensive arms is their
     deterrent power. As long as a potential dictator (or a potentially
     genocidal dictator) must take into account very serious risks
     involved with taking action against the American people, then the
     prospect for such actions being taken becomes markedly smaller.

     No one can forecast exactly what would happen if the American
     people took up arms against a dictatorial government. But there is
     no evidence from the history of warfare, or from any other source,
     to support a simplistic assertion that resistance could not
     possibly achieve any success.

                             III. When to Resist

     A much more plausible objection to the authors' thesis is that,
     even though an armed populace can resist genocide, the population
     may not know when to resist. Had European Jews shot the soldiers
     who were herding them into cattle cars for transportation to
     concentration camps, the survival rate for European Jews might
     have been much higher. But there were other instances, some of
     them well-known to European Jewry, where non-resistance proved to
     be the correct approach.

     The classic example involves the Babylonian captivity of Biblical
     times. As the Babylonian Empire of King Nebuchadnezzar was
     sweeping westward, the tiny kingdom of Judea fell within its path.
     As the final Judean stronghold, Jerusalem, was besieged, the Jews
     faced a choice of surrendering, with the likelihood of being taken
     into slavery and exile, or fighting to the last man. The prophet
     Jeremiah insisted on the former course, and that is the course
     Judea's king eventually chose.

     As things turned out, that was the right choice historically for
     the Jews. The Babylonian captivity turned out not to be terribly
     arduous; many Jews grew quite prosperous in Babylon. Captivity in
     Babylon also took the Jews away from Canaanite influence, meaning
     that the continuing struggle to resist syncretism between
     Canaanite nature religion and strict Yahwism was ended. The
     Judaism that emerged from the Babylonian captivity was a purer,
     stronger form of Judaism than the one that had been under
     continuous Canaanite assimilative pressure, although some
     Babylonian myths and legends were incorporated. Within a few
     generations, Babylon was conquered by the Persian Empire of King
     Cyrus, and Cyrus allowed many of the Jews to return to Jerusalem
     and begin rebuilding the Temple. Eventually, re-establishment of
     an independent Judean state was allowed. Acceptance of
     transportation and captivity turned out to be a much better
     long-term choice than a battle to the last man.

     During World War II, the Japanese-Americans who were herded into
     concentration camps fared better by accepting several years of
     confinement than they would have by taking to the California hills
     and launching a guerilla war.

     How is one to know that the impending forced march or
     transportation by cattle car is intended not merely for an onerous
     relocation, but for mass murder? Generally, one cannot. As the
     authors point out in their chapter on Germany, the Jewish policy
     of submission had been, for over 1800 years, the policy which
     saved the most Jewish lives. [125] Not until the Jews realized
     that Hitler intended to murder them all did Jewish resistance
     groups begin taking action.

     Of the seven genocidal governments studied in Lethal Laws, not one
     announced its intention to its victims. All of the victims were
     told that they were being temporarily relocated or another lie in
     order to induce them not to resist. And one of the reasons that
     the lies were believed by so many people is that there are many
     governments throughout world history which have sent people on
     forced marches or other forms of forced relocation and not killed
     them. [126]

     One guide for when a subject people should resist may be the
     people's assessment of the government's degree of hatred. King
     Nebuchadnezzar was no anti-Semite and bore the Jews no more ill
     will than he bore the people of any nation he conquered. Hitler
     was obviously different: hatred of Jews was one of the fundamental
     principles of his life, as he had demonstrated throughout his
     public career.

     Forewarned is forearmed, but the problem of knowing when to take
     up arms poses a significant challenge to the authors' thesis that
     gun ownership can always prevent genocide. Even if all of the
     genocide victims discussed in Lethal Laws had possessed their own
     semiautomatic rifle, it is far from certain that they all would
     have decided at the right time to shoot enemy soldiers. Still,
     some of the genocide victims might have done so, and the more that
     did so, the less genocide there might have been. It appears that,
     despite the hopes of the authors, civilian gun ownership may
     sometimes, but not always, prove capable of stopping genocide.

                          IV. It Can't Happen Here

     It did happen here. The conquest of North America by the European
     settlers of the future United States was accomplished by "the
     extermination of some Native American tribes and the
     near-extinction of others, by U.S. government forces . . . ."
     [127] The forced march of the Cherokee people from the
     southeastern United States into Oklahoma along the "Trail of
     Tears" resulted in the deaths of a large fraction of the Cherokee
     population, and at best, differs quantitatively rather than
     qualitatively from the 20th-century genocides described in Lethal
     Laws. Hitler looked with admiration at how the United States
     government had cleared the continent of Indians, and he used the
     U.S. government's 19th-century policies as a model for his own
     20th-century policies of clearing Lebensraum for the German
     people.

     In the twentieth century, the United States government forced
     100,000 United States citizens into concentration camps. [128] In
     1941, American citizens of Japanese descent were herded into
     concentration camps run by the United States government. [129]
     Like the victims of other mass deportations, these Americans were
     allowed to retain only the property they could carry with them.
     Everything else--including family businesses built up over
     generations--had to be sold immediately at fire-sale prices or
     abandoned. [130] The camps were "ringed with barbed wire fences
     and guard towers." [131] During the war, the federal government
     pushed Central and South American governments to round up persons
     of Japanese ancestry in those nations and have them shipped to the
     U.S. concentration camps. [132]

     The American concentration camps were not death camps. The
     American-held prisoners were subject to strict discipline, but not
     to mass murder. [133] After the American victory at Midway in June
     1942, the threat of a Japanese landing on the mainland U.S.
     vanished, and the tide in the Pacific began to turn. [134]
     Nevertheless, the incarceration of Japanese-Americans continued
     long after any plausible national security justification had
     vanished.

     But, the authors ask, what if the war had gone differently? What
     if a frustrated, angry America, continuing to lose a war in the
     Pacific, had been tempted to take revenge on the "enemy" that was,
     in the concentration camps, a safe target. [135] Would killing all
     the Japanese be a potential policy option? In 1944, by which time
     America's eventual victory in the war seemed assured, the Gallup
     Poll asked Americans, "What do you think we should do with Japan,
     as a country, after the war?" Thirteen percent of Americans chose
     the response "Kill all Japanese people." [136]

     Sadly, Roger Daniels, the author of a recent study of the Japanese
     internment, concludes that a concentration camp episode could
     indeed happen again in America. [137] He points out that in 1950,
     a time by which the oppressiveness and uselessness of the American
     concentration camps during World War II had been well-established,
     Congress enacted the Emergency Detention Act, which gave the
     Attorney General unilateral authority to imprison Americans at
     will, using the World War II concentration camps as a model. [138]
     Fortunately, the law was repealed in 1971, but as Daniels points
     out, the original detentions occurred even though they were not
     authorized by any law. [139]

     Disarming citizens before killing or oppressing them is a
     time-honored American tradition. After the Civil War, the first
     act of the Ku Klux Klan (like the Khmer Rouge) was to round up all
     the guns in the hands of ex-slaves. Only then did other
     oppressions begin. [140] From the middle of the nineteenth century
     to the first quarter of the twentieth, race riots in the United
     States usually took the form of white mobs rampaging against
     innocent blacks. Black attempts to resist or to shoot back were
     often followed with governmental efforts to disarm the blacks.
     [141]

     Are modern Americans so dramatically different from their
     ancestors that concentration camps or mob violence are safely
     confined to the past? While Mayor of New York City, Edward Koch
     (who is Jewish) proposed that the federal government set up
     concentration camps for drug users, in remote locations such as
     Nevada and Alaska. [142] Under Mayor Koch's successor David
     Dinkins, after a Jewish religious leader's driver killed a black
     child, rampaging black mobs conducted a three-day pogrom against a
     Jewish section of Brooklyn and killed an Australian Jew who was
     visiting the United States, while the police passively refused to
     intervene. [143]

     Hatemongers such as Louis Farrakhan are now treated as important
     leaders by an increasingly large segment of the American black
     community, including the NAACP, which for decades before had been
     steadfastly opposed to racial hatred and anti-Semitism. In an age
     of Louis Farrakhan and Al Sharpton, is America immune from the
     influence of bigots, crackpots, hatemongers, or potential
     dictators? A Klansman and former Nazi named David Duke was elected
     to the State House of Representatives in Louisiana in 1989. He
     then won 44% of the vote against the incumbent U.S. Senator in
     1990. [144] The next year, he won 39% of the vote in a race for
     Governor, garnering over 60% of the vote from the white
     middle-class and from white Protestants. [145]

     What other countries can be presumed forever safe from
     hatemongering rule? In August 1994, the Labor Minister of the
     Italian government--a government which a half-century earlier was
     a Fascist ally of Hitler--blamed the fall of the lira on the
     "Jewish lobby" in the United States. [146] Virtually none of the
     world's democratic nations can boast an uninterrupted history of
     democracy, nor can they claim that racist or anti-Semitic elements
     are of no significance in the nation's current political life.

     Imagine that the year is 1900. You are told that within fifty
     years, a nation in the world will kill over six million members of
     a religious minority. Which nation would you pick? If you were
     well-informed about world affairs, it is very unlikely that you
     would pick Germany. In 1900, Germany was a democratic, progressive
     nation. Jews living there enjoyed fuller acceptance in society
     than they did in Britain, France, or the United States. In 1900,
     probably much less than 13% of the German population favored
     killing all Jews. Thirty-five years later, circumstances had
     changed.

     The prospect of a dictatorial American government thirty-five
     years from now seems almost impossible. What about a hundred years
     from today? Two hundred? It is possible to say, with
     near-certainty, that "it can't happen here--in the near future."
     But in the long run, no one can say; the fact that it did happen
     here in the nineteenth century, coupled with the fact that
     American concentration camps were opened in the twentieth century,
     ought to suggest that only someone wilfully blind to American and
     world history would attempt to guarantee to future generations of
     potential American victims that "it can't happen here."

                      V. The Roots of the Right to Arms

     Lethal Laws' thesis that the ultimate purpose of gun ownership is
     for citizens to shoot government troops (or simply to possess
     arms, thereby deterring governmental violence) will offend many
     persons, including many gun owners, who like to consider gun
     ownership in the pleasant, bucolic context of hunting. [147] But
     the authors' viewpoint is precisely the viewpoint of the
     intellectual world from which the Second Amendment sprang.

     The framers of the American Constitution were strongly of the
     opinion that "it could happen here." They drafted the Constitution
     as a counterpoint to the abuses of government which they had
     endured themselves and which they knew about from history. Not the
     least of these abuses were the French government's mass
     persecutions of the disarmed Huguenots in the previous century.
     Indeed, a sizeable number of Huguenots fled to the United States.
     [148]

     After the English Civil War, the Glorious Revolution, and
     religious persecutions in 17th-century Great Britain, William
     Blackstone in the eighteenth century described the right to arms
     as the fifth and last "auxiliary right" of the subject, meant to
     protect all other rights. The right "of having arms for their
     defence" was "a public allowance under restrictions, of the
     natural right of resistance and self preservation,  when the
     sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain
     the violence of oppression." [149] Sir Walter Raleigh was simply
     repeating the conventional wisdom of his age when he noted that a
     tyrant will seek "to unarm his people of weapons, money, and all
     means whereby they resist his power." [150]

     The drafters of the American Constitution trusted the people more
     than the government, intended the armed populace to be the
     ultimate check in the system of checks and balances, and meant to
     reserve to the American people the right affirmed in the
     Declaration of Independence to "alter or abolish" a tyrannical
     government. James Madison's friend Tench Coxe explained that

          [T]he powers of the sword are in the hands of the
          yeomanry of America from sixteen to sixty. The militia
          of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to
          their arms, when compared with any possible army, must
          be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are
          they not ourselves. . . . Congress have no power to
          disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other
          terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of
          an American. . . . [T]he unlimited power of the sword is
          not in the hands of either the federal or state
          governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever
          remain, in the hands of the people. [151]

     Tench Coxe's words from across the centuries are not very
     different from those of the late Vice President Hubert Humphrey:
     "The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee
     against arbitrary government, one more safeguard against the
     tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which
     historically has proved to be always possible." [152] Consistent
     with these quotations, virtually every scholar in the last 15
     years who has studied the history of the Second Amendment finds
     that it was intended to recognize, not create, a fundamental human
     right to possess weapons, a right whose primary purpose was to
     facilitate resistance to a tyrannical government. [153]

     Although the Bible was less influential in the political theory of
     the early American republic than the histories of Great Britain,
     Greece, and Rome were, all of the people who shaped the
     Constitution and the Bill of Rights (including Deists such as
     Jefferson and Franklin) knew the Bible well and took its history
     lessons seriously. The Book of Esther is set in the period of the
     Babylonian captivity and stands as a counterpoint to Jeremiah,
     which is set in the period leading up to the conquest of Judea by
     Babylon. Babylonian King Ahasuerus, influenced by a malicious
     advisor, orders the extermination of all Jews. The King's wife,
     Queen Esther, is secretly a Jew and risks her life by telling the
     King and convincing him to execute the malicious advisor.
     Unfortunately, the King's order to execute and plunder the Jews
     has already gone out and cannot legally be rescinded. But the King
     can send out a second decree, so he sends a decree telling

          the Jews which were in every city to gather themselves
          together, and to stand for their life, to destroy and
          slay, and to cause to perish, all the power of the
          people and provinces that would assault them . . . .
          Thus the Jews smote all their enemies with the stroke of
          the sword . . . . [T]he other Jews that were in the
          king's provinces gathered themselves together, and stood
          for their lives, and had rest from their enemies, and
          slew of their foes seventy and five thousand . . . .
          [154]

     Although the authors focus primarily on the physical implications
     of gun controls--of genocide victims being deprived of tools which
     would facilitate resistance--the classical ideologists of the
     right to bear arms would have agreed with them. However, they
     might have added another point which they thought even more
     important: disarmament upsets the proper relationship between the
     master (the people) and the servant (the government) by making the
     people accustomed to dependence on the government. Machiavelli
     observed that

          [A]mong other ills which ensue from being disarmed is
          contempt . . . . There can be no proper relation between
          one who is armed and one who is not; nor is it
          reasonable to expect that one who is armed will
          voluntarily obey one who is not, or that the latter will
          feel secure among servants who are armed. [155]

     Joel Barlow observed that

          [it] palsies the hand and brutalizes the mind: an
          habitual disuse of physical force totally destroys the
          moral; and men lose at once the power of protecting
          themselves, and of discerning the cause of their
          oppression. [156]

     To the generation that drafted the Second Amendment, possessing
     arms to deter a government (or a mob which might be inspired by
     the government) that might contemplate mass murder was an
     uncontroversial moral imperative. The fact that the same message
     in the 20th-century book Lethal Laws may be considered so radical
     as to be not even worth discussing is perhaps one reason why
     genocide has become the great pandemic of the twentieth century.

                  VI. Conclusion: Taking Genocide Seriously

     One of the contributions of Lethal Laws is that it moves the gun
     control debate beyond the point where it has been stuck for a very
     long time on what might be called the "lone homeowner." Gun rights
     advocates have claimed that armed citizens can use guns to defend
     themselves against criminals, while gun prohibition advocates have
     countered that ordinary people cannot use firearms effectively
     under stress, and that the defensive home gun is more likely to be
     used to kill a loved one during an argument than to provide any
     meaningful protection. What results from the lone homeowner debate
     is an attempted calculus of net lives saved--or lost--due to gun
     control, as one attempts to weigh the self-defense value of
     firearms, the ability of gun control laws to disarm criminals, to
     factor in whatever extra quantum of suicide is attributable to the
     presence of guns in the home, to guess how many gun accident
     victims are so reckless that they would likely die in some other
     accident, and so forth. [157] Notably, many gun control advocates
     acknowledge that proposed controls will have little effect, but
     they support new restrictions with the theory "if it saves one
     life, it's worth it."

     This gun control calculus will no doubt continue to interest many
     criminologists, but Lethal Laws offers some powerful evidence that
     the calculus is of little relevance to the ultimate question of
     the human cost of gun control. Let us assume that the entire
     difference in the homicide rate between the United States and
     Europe is due to the absence of sufficiently stringent American
     gun laws comparable to the European laws. [158] Thus, if Europe
     moved to an American-style system of less-restrictive gun
     controls, the European homicide rate would immediately rise to
     American levels. If we make these assumptions, then we find, as
     the authors note, that "with an American-style murder rate it
     would take 400 years for Europe's common criminals to murder as
     many people as the Nazi government murdered in just 13 years."
     [159]

     In other words, over the long run, the risk to life from criminal
     governments is overwhelmingly larger than the risk to life from
     lone criminals. Gun control measures which substantially reduce
     the possibility of resistance to genocide, but which offer little
     commensurate increase in lives saved, might thus be considered to
     endanger rather than enhance public safety. For example, so-called
     "assault rifles" are virtually never used in crime in the United
     States (they are used in less than one percent of homicides), but
     they are the best weapons for civilian resistance to a genocidal
     government. [160] The authors force us to consider whether the
     recently-enacted Congressional prohibition on so-called "assault
     weapons" may actually be a lethal law. Conversely, laws which do
     not disarm the populace and which do not create government-owned
     lists of gunowners--such as laws punishing reckless conduct with a
     gun which causes the injury of a child--would seem unobjectionable
     under the Lethal laws thesis.

     Even persons who reject the book's thesis will find it helpful in
     understanding why many gun owners resist seemingly "reasonable"
     controls. America's leading gun prohibition lobby, Handgun
     Control, Inc., hypothesizes that those who objected to the "Brady
     Bill" simply had a selfish objection to the "inconvenience" of
     waiting a week to buy a handgun. [161] The more fundamental
     objection, however, was that to let the government take control
     over the populace's acquisition of firearms was to put in place
     precisely the kind of laws which a murderous government could use
     to disarm its victims. Whether the fears are considered credible
     or not, they are real, and serious advocates of gun control need
     to address them.

     Another valuable feature of Lethal Laws is that it traces the
     connection between gun prohibition and prohibition of alcohol and
     drugs. This story should one day merit its own book, but in the
     meantime, the authors remind us how parasitic gun control has been
     on drug and alcohol control. America's first major gun control
     law, the National Firearms Act of 1934, was a direct result of the
     violence engendered by alcohol prohibition. [162] The authors
     might have noted also that current "gun control" efforts are
     partly a response to the violence that has resulted from the "drug
     war," and partly a reflection of the drug war's message that the
     government should prevent adults from possessing objects, such as
     semiautomatic rifles or marijuana, whose possession offends the
     sensibilities of the majority of the population.

     But by far the most important accomplishment of Lethal Laws is
     that it forces us to think seriously about genocide--forcing us to
     do more than simply deplore mass murder by the government, and to
     start thinking about how to end such murders.

     The rhetoric of the "public health" campaign against gun ownership
     labels gun violence a "disease" and guns a "disease vector." [163]
     But if malicious human acts are to be classified as a disease,
     then as Lethal Laws observes, "[g]enocide is among humankind's
     deadliest 'diseases.'" [164]

     It is important to note the crisis situation that the world has
     come to regarding genocide. Since World War II, more people have
     been killed in state-sponsored genocide than have been killed by
     war. [165] Genocide is more common in the twentieth century than
     in any century. As this Article was written, genocide was in
     progress in Rwanda [166] and Bosnia, and the world community had
     done nothing effective to stop the genocide in either nation.
     (Although discovered by the authors too late for inclusion in
     Lethal Laws, the gun control laws in both Rwanda and the former
     Yugoslavia were similar to gun control laws which have facilitated
     genocide in other nations.)

     In fact, the authors may significantly underestimate the
     20th-century death count from genocide. Their eight-nation study
     uses conservative estimates of genocide in each of the nations to
     arrive at a total death count of 56 million. [167] University of
     Hawaii political science professor R.J. Rummel has researched the
     demographic evidence regarding genocides in much more detail, and
     he puts the total number of victims of mass murders by governments
     during the twentieth century at 169,198,000. If the deaths of
     military combatants are included, the death total rises to
     203,000,000. Rummel's book, Statistics of Democide: Estimates,
     Sources, and Calculations on 20th Century Genocide and Mass
     Murder, includes data on mass murders by several regimes not
     discussed in Lethal Laws. These regimes (number of deaths in
     parentheses) include: Nationalist China (10,076,000 from 1928 to
     1949); Japan (5,964,000); Vietnam (1,678,000); North Korea
     (1,663,000); Poland (1,585,000 from 1945 to 1948); Pakistan
     (1,503,000); Mexico (1,417,000 from 1900 to 1920); Yugoslavia
     (1,072,000 from 1944 to 1987); and Czarist Russia (1,066,000 from
     1900 to 1917). [168] There is no evidence that any of these
     nations deviated from the pattern described in Lethal Laws: the
     preference to murder unarmed victims who were subject to gun
     controls. [169]

     Stated another way, the number of people killed by governments in
     the twentieth century is over two-thirds of the current population
     of the United States. As a cause of premature death, criminal
     governments massively outpace ordinary criminals, as well as most
     types of disease.

     Are we serious about ending the genocide epidemic? If so, then we
     must seriously consider what kind of genocide control measures
     have any prospect of success. International organizations such as
     the United Nations are plainly insufficient. The United Nations
     has failed to stop the current genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia. Nor
     did the United Nations or any other international body take action
     even against Idi Amin in Uganda, since Uganda had no serious
     strategic protectors, unlike the Guatemalan generals, who were
     U.S. allies, or the Khmer Rouge, who were Chinese allies. The
     Ugandan army was powerful only in comparison to the disarmed
     Ugandan people; Amin's army could have been rapidly toppled by any
     international force. Amin's mass murder and repression were
     well-known as they were occurring. And yet, the world did nothing.
     There is no historical evidence to believe that any collection of
     nations will ever take action against a genocidal nation for
     humanitarian reasons. Hitler, Idi Amin, and the Khmer Rouge
     provoked international action only when they attacked other
     nations. As long as the genocide was an internal affair, nothing
     was done. The majority of governments represented at the United
     Nations are dictatorships which rule by armed force rather than by
     consent. [170] A body dominated by such dictatorships is unlikely
     to become a powerful force for human rights.

     If international action to interrupt genocide is not a realistic
     solution, is post-hoc punishment of genocide perpetrators any
     better? The Nazi war crimes trials were an appropriate way to mete
     out justice. [171] But other than the losers of World War II, none
     of the 20th-century genocide perpetrators has been brought to
     justice. To the contrary, most of them died in their beds, wealthy
     and powerful. Pol Pot and Idi Amin even today live comfortable
     lives, and Pol Pot continues to plan a return to power. The
     deterrent effect of the possibility of prosecution for crimes
     against humanity appears to be rather small, or at least not large
     enough to have prevented Stalin and Mao from perpetrating genocide
     not long after the war crimes trials were completed, or to have
     prevented later genocide in Cambodia, Uganda, Guatemala, East
     Timor, Kurdistan, Rwanda, and Bosnia. [172] Also living
     comfortable lives after a career of mass murder are Haile
     Mengitsu, who deliberately starved rebellious Ethiopian provinces,
     and Mohammad Najibullah, who ruled as the Soviet puppet in
     Afghanistan while one million Afghanis were killed. [173] If the
     world cannot muster the will to bring small-time tyrants such as
     Idi Amin and Pol Pot to justice, it is hard to believe that
     grander criminals, running more powerful nations, will have much
     fear of an international genocide tribunal.

     Persons who support post-hoc punishment of genocide organizers are
     advocates of a worthwhile cause, but it will be a long time before
     genocide perpetrators are prosecuted with a regularity and
     certainty that deters future perpetrators. To the contrary, the
     history of the 20th century suggests that most people who
     perpetrate genocide get away with it. And notably, government
     officials who order genocide policies do not usually expect to be
     deposed, so they are unlikely to be deterred by the possibility of
     prosecution.

     Reducing hatred is a worthwhile anti-genocide strategy.
     Educational programs may play an important long-term role in
     reducing the kinds of hatred that pave the way for genocide.
     Promoting respect for peoples of all races and religions should be
     a key objective of every educational system in the world. [174]
     But as the authors point out, hatred has been part of the human
     condition as long as there have been humans. Unless we believe
     that human nature can be fundamentally reformed, then hatred is
     going to persist in some form, and as long as there is hatred,
     there will be inclinations for genocide.

     The authors give us a formula for three key preconditions of
     genocide: hatred, government, and gun control. Without any of
     these three elements, genocide is not possible. Obviously, not all
     countries which have all three elements also have genocide, but
     every country which has genocide has all three elements. The
     authors assume too readily that the second key precondition for
     genocide--government--is inevitable. To the contrary, as Bruce L.
     Benson argues persuasively in his book, The Enterprise of Law, it
     is possible to have law, peace, and civility without having
     government. [175] And it is not impossible that coming decades may
     see a major trend towards "panarchy"--that is, governments which
     have power over only small communities and which enjoy the true
     consent of the governed, since the governed are free to move
     anywhere else, or to choose a new government. The break-up of the
     Soviet Union may perhaps be a beginning of a trend in this
     direction. But while a world without government may make for
     interesting speculation among futurologists, such a world is not
     our current one, nor is it likely to be for several decades, if
     ever.

     Reducing the power of government, however, is a far more plausible
     goal. The authors note the increasing surveillance powers that the
     United States government has achieved in recent years, often as a
     result of the "drug war." In Nazi-occupied Europe, some Jewish
     children were sheltered by Gentile families, who successfully
     claimed the children as their own. Greater governmental ability to
     verify and track the identity of persons from cradle to grave
     obviously makes it much harder for genocide targets to slip
     through the cracks. Thus, when greater government identity
     controls are proposed for the purposes of tax compliance, control
     of illegal immigration, health care, drug law enforcement, or gun
     law enforcement, we should consider rather seriously whether we
     really want the government to always be able to know someone's
     identity. [176]

     The problem of restricting government power is that people are
     most likely to actually be able to reduce the powers of
     governments which abide by popular control and the rule of law.
     These governments are the very governments least likely to
     perpetrate genocide. Should the law-abiding government with
     reduced powers be one day replaced by a different government,
     attempting to control the new government is likely to be much more
     difficult.

     A democratic system of government and a free press can also help
     prevent genocide. But these protections are not always sufficient.
     Hitler came to power legally, after winning a democratic election.
     And even democratic governments can be overthrown by violent coups
     or by war. That is how most genocidal governments in this century
     have come to power. In short, there are a number of viable
     anti-genocide strategies, all of which may do some good, and all
     of which should be tried. But none of them, or all of them
     together, may be sufficient.

     And so we are left with the prescription of Lethal Laws and its
     focus on the third element of the genocide triad: the unarmed
     victim. If all potential genocide victims (i.e. everyone) have a
     gun (ideally a semi-automatic rifle), then genocide becomes much
     more difficult. As Lethal Laws demonstrates, governments will not
     attempt genocide until they have first disarmed the victims.
     Victims cannot be disarmed against their will. If potential
     victims are willing to draw a line in the sand, then they can, at
     the least, inflict casualties on government forces before the
     surviving soldiers or policemen "take my gun from my cold dead
     fingers." [177] Genocide is pre-eminently the work of bullies, and
     if bullies take a large risk of being shot, then many bullies are
     apt to desist. Moreover, the very presence of an armed populace is
     likely to deter any attempt at genocide in the first place; at
     least that is the theory which animated the founders of the
     American republic, and it is a theory which Lethal Laws suggests
     will have continued viability in the twentieth century.

     No one can tell whether Jeremiah or Esther will provide the best
     guidance for a future situation. But it is undeniable that the
     twentieth century has been a century of pandemic genocide.
     Governments have never been more murderous than in this century.
     Something needs to change if the twenty-first century is not going
     to be as lethal as the twentieth. The Nazi and Soviet regimes
     which perpetrated two of the leading Mass Murders of the century
     are gone now, but anti-Semitic fascism is currently a powerful
     political force in Russia. And the current Chinese government is
     the successor to the one that killed so many people during the
     cultural revolution. Most of the Third World continues to be ruled
     by the same kinds of tyrants who have perpetrated the Third World
     genocides of the last several decades. We need to recognize that
     the authors have advanced an anti-genocide theory which looks
     considerably stronger and more realistic than any competing
     anti-genocide scheme.

     While Lethal Laws focuses on gun ownership as a deterrent to
     genocide, the authors also have an opinion about the relationship
     between a disarmed populace and other human rights abuses:
     "Amnesty International--an organization devoted to ending abuses
     of human rights and the freeing of political prisoners--could
     prevent much of the evil it denounces, if it promoted unrestricted
     civilian ownership of military-type firearms." [178] Not all
     countries with severe gun controls perpetrate torture or genocide;
     but how many governments which perpetrate torture permit any but
     the most politically reliable segments of the population to own
     guns? If every government which engages in systematic torture has
     disarmed its victim population, is there reason to believe that
     those governments see a relationship between gun control and the
     maintenance of the government's power?

     Although Lethal Laws is premised on a political philosophy that
     would have seemed quite ordinary to the drafters of the Bill of
     Rights, in today's political climate Lethal Laws is a genuinely
     radical book. But simply because something is radical does not
     mean that the legal community (and the rest of the world) should
     ignore it--otherwise, Catherine MacKinnon would not be teaching at
     the University of Michigan Law School, and Duncan Kennedy would
     not have tenure at Harvard.

     Indeed, Lethal Laws reminds me in many ways of the books by
     MacKinnon's friend Andrea Dworkin. Simkin, Zelman, Rice, and
     Dworkin all write with an engaging, passionate style. They do not
     adopt an air of academic detachment; the intensity of their belief
     in their cause bursts through every word. You will find no more of
     an attempt to weigh the benefits of gun control in Lethal Laws
     than you will find a list of the ways that patriarchy genuinely
     benefits women in a Dworkin book. Lethal Laws, in contrast to the
     Dworkin books, is meticulously footnoted and based almost entirely
     on non-radical source material. Dworkin, Simkin, Zelman, and Rice
     all suffer from a tendency to overstate their case and to villify
     their opponents. These flaws have not kept Dworkin's basic point
     from being acknowledged by the legal academy, nor should the same
     flaws keep Simkin, Zelman, and Rice locked outside the academy.

     Dworkin advances a thesis (all heterosexual intercourse is rape)
     that is radical and novel. Simkin, Zelman, and Rice bring us a
     thesis that was once a platitude, but which is now challenging and
     radical (gun control facilitates murder by the government). In the
     legal academy, Dworkin is accorded a respectful hearing, even by
     people who ultimately reject her conclusions. Simkin, Zelman, and
     Rice are equally entitled to respectful consideration of their
     radical thesis. If they do not receive such consideration, it will
     be evidence that in today's legal community, radical feminism is
     politically correct, but the Second Amendment (and the
     free-thought principles of the First Amendment) is not.

     Genocide is a human rights violation that dwarves all other
     crimes. If we are to be serious--and not merely
     sanctimonious--about human rights, then we must be serious about
     eradicating genocide. Jay Simkin, Aaron Zelman, and Alan M. Rice
     have shown that a well-armed population which is prepared to
     resist is much less likely to be murdered by its government than
     is a disarmed population. If the people of the world were much
     better armed, many fewer people would be the victims of genocide.
     Unless one can propose a different method of ending endemic
     genocide, then the authors' prescriptions stand as the best, and
     only, potentially effective medicine. The burden has shifted to
     the opponents of firearms rights to either come up with a more
     effective anti-genocide medicine or to admit that saving lives was
     never the primary objective of the gun prohibition movement in the
     first place.

     ------------------------------------------------------------------

     Notes

     [1] Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 72a, discussed in George P.
     Fletcher, Self-Defense as a Justification for Punishment, 12
     Cardozo L. Rev. 859, 861 (1991). [An alternative translation is:
     "And the Torah says, 'If someone comes to kill you, arise quickly
     and kill him.'"]

     [2] The book's copyright notice requires the following source
     citation: Lethal Laws, Jay Simkin, Aaron Zelman, & Alan M. Rice,
     Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc., 2872 South
     Wentworth Avenue, Hartford, WI 53027, (262) 673-9745.

     [3] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 63.

     [4] Id. at 81.

     [5] Id.

     [6] Id. at 81, 94.

     [7] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 82.

     [8] Id. at 79.

     [9] Id. at 83.

     [10] Id.

     [11] Yves Ternon, Report on the Genocide of the Armenians in the
     Ottoman Empire, 1915-16 in A Crime of Silence: The Armenian
     Genocide 117-18 (Gerald Libridian ed., London, Zed Books 1985),
     quoted in Simkin et al., supra note 2 at 83.

     [12] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 98.

     [13] Id., at 106-7.

     [14] Id.

     [15] Id.

     [16] Financial rewards were offered for informants who turned in
     persons possessing unlicensed guns. Decree of the Council of
     People's Commissars, 10 December 1918, reprinted in 4 Decrees of
     Soviet Power 123 (Moscow 1968), reprinted in Simkin et al., supra
     note 2, at 123.

     [17] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 98.

     The decree also specified that minors could not be given arms
     unless the license specified the name of an adult who would be
     responsible. As in New York City (for handguns) and New Jersey
     (for all guns) under current laws, unlicensed persons were not
     permitted even for a moment to touch a firearm, even for
     supervised use at a range. Decree of the Council of People's
     Commissars on the Issuing, Keeping, and Handling of Firearms,
     reprinted in 9 Decrees of Soviet Power 104 (Moscow, 1978),
     reprinted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 129. ("It is
     absolutely forbidden to hand over weapons to anyone, whether for
     temporary use, or for storage.")

     [18] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 101.

     [19] Id.

     [20] Id. The "crime bill" enacted by the United States Congress in
     August 1994 provides for the death penalty for offenders as young
     as thirteen-years-old. Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement
     Act of 1994, 199th Pub. L. No. 103-332, 108 Stat. 1796.

     [21] Id. at 100-04.

     [22] Jay Simkin & Aaron Zelman, "Gun Control": Gateway to Tyranny
     (1992). The authors' copyright permission requires the following
     exact citation: "Gun Control": Gateway to Tyranny, Jay Simkin &
     Aaron Zelman, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership,
     2872 South Wentworth Avenue, Hartford, WI 53027, (262) 767-0760.

     [23] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 150.

     [24] Id. at 151.

     [25] Id.

     [26] Id.

     [27] Id.

     [28] Id. at 152.

     [29] Id. at 153. The Nazis (on a pages per year basis) issued laws
     and regulations at 2.5 times the rate of the Weimar government.
     Id. at 155.

     [30] Id. at 153.

     [31] William Sheridan Allen, The Nazi Seizure of Power: The
     Experience of a Single German Town, 1922-1945, at 184-85 (1984),
     quoted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 154.

     [32] Id.

     [33] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 163-70.

     [34] As the then-head of the German police, Hermann Göring,
     stated, "I refuse the notion that the police are protective troops
     for Jewish stores. The police protect whoever comes into Germany
     legitimately, but not Jewish usurers." Restricting Handguns: The
     Liberal Skeptics Speak Out 188 (Don B. Kates, Jr. ed., 1979).

     [35] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 156.

     [36] Id. at 156.

     In the Atlanta suburb of Brownsville in 1906, the press incited
     the city over a non-existent epidemic of assaults on white women
     by blacks; a wave of beatings and shooting of blacks followed. The
     police arrested Negroes who armed themselves against further
     attack. American Violence: A Documentary History 237 (Richard
     Hofstadler & Michael Wallace, eds., 1971); see also Richard
     Maxwell Brown, Strain of Violence: Historical Studies in American
     Violence and Vigilantism 210-11 (1975).

     In Michigan, handgun permit laws were enacted after Dr. Ossian
     Sweet, a black, shot and killed a person in a mob that was
     attacking his house because he had just moved into an all-white
     neighborhood. The Detroit police stood nearby, refusing to
     restrain the angry crowd. Don B. Kates, Jr., History of Handgun
     Prohibition in the United States, in Restricting Handguns: The
     Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, supra note 34, at 19. Indicted for
     first degree murder, Sweet was acquitted after a lengthy trial at
     which Clarence Darrow served as his attorney. Black newspapers
     such as the Amsterdam News and the Baltimore Herald vigorously
     defended blacks' right to use deadly force in self-defense against
     a mob. Walter White, The Sweet Trial, Crisis, Jan. 1926, at 125;
     Irving Stone, Clarence Darrow for the Defense 529-47 (1941);
     Herbert Shapiro, White Violence and Black Response: From
     Reconstruction to Montgomery 188-96 (1988).

     Darrow summed up for the jury: "[T]hey may have been gunmen. They
     may have tried to murder. But they were not cowards . . . .
     [E]leven of them go into a house, gentlemen, with no police
     protection, in the face of a mob, and the hatred of a community,
     and take guns and ammunition and fight for their rights, and for
     your rights and for mine, and for the rights of every other human
     being that lives." Clarence Darrow, Attorney for the Damned 241-42
     (Arthur Weinberg ed., 1957).

     [37] See supra text accompanying notes 12-16.

     [38] Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews 318-20
     (1985).

     [39] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 157.

     [40] David I. Caplan, The Warsaw Ghetto: 10 Handguns Against
     Tyranny, Am. Rifleman, Feb. 1988, at 31.

     [41] Caplan, supra note 40.

     [42] Elliot Rothenberg, Jewish History Refutes Gun Control
     Activists, Am. Rifleman, Feb. 1988, at 30.

     The Jews had built bunkers with underground tunnels, and grew
     increasingly well-armed with rifles, machineguns, handguns,
     grenades, and other explosives supplied by the Polish resistance,
     smuggled out of Nazi factories, or taken from dead Nazi soldiers.
     A major Nazi assault began on April 19, with the expectation that
     the ghetto would be cleared in time for Hitler's birthday on the
     20th. The assault was led by a tank and two armored cars; a Jewish
     unit set the tank on fire twice, forcing a Nazi retreat. See
     Simkin et al., supra note 2; Caplan, supra note 40.

     The Nazis returned with artillery, and after April 22, Nazi
     artillery drove many Jews into the Jewish tunnel system that
     connected with the sewers. The Nazis used poison gasses to attempt
     to clear the Jews out of the sewers. Nazi forces could not
     directly take on the buildings where the Jews had built hidden
     bunkers, cellars, and attics; room-to-room fighting would have
     inflicted unacceptably high casualties on the Nazis. So the Nazis
     began to burn down the Warsaw ghetto, one building at a time.
     Explosives and artillery were used to smash the buildings that
     were not flammable. On April 25, the Nazi commanding general
     recorded in his diary "this evening one can see a gigantic sea of
     flames." Even so, the Jewish will to resist was not broken.
     Finally, on May 15, the Warsaw synagogue was blown up, and the
     battle was over. In contrast to the usual result when the Nazis
     made an area into a "Jew-free-zone", there was nothing of economic
     value for the Nazis to take; to the contrary, the Nazis had been
     forced to pay a price in order to take Jewish lives. Id.

     [43] Hilberg, supra note 38, at 499. For a full discussion of the
     Warsaw ghetto battle, see Yitzhak Zuckerman, A Surplus of Memory:
     Chronicle of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1993); Jews for the
     Preservation of Firearms Ownership, The Warsaw Ghetto: The First
     Battle to Re-Establish Israel (1993).

     [44] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 158.

     [45] The story can be found, among other places, in Harold Werner,
     Fighting Back: A Memoir of Jewish Resistance in World War II
     (1992); Yechiel Granatstein, The War of a Jewish Partisan (1986);
     Nechama Tec, Defiance: The Bielski Partisans (1993); and Chaika
     Grossman, The Underground Army: Fighters of the Bialystok Ghetto
     (1987).

     For Jewish difficulty in obtaining arms for resistance, see Israel
     Gutman, The Armed Struggle of the Jews in Nazi-occupied Countries,
     in The Holocaust 457-98 (Leni Yahil ed. & Ina Friedman & Haya
     Galai trans., 1990).

     [46] Another strength of the chapter is that the authors merely
     mention in passing, but do not elaborate on, their theory from
     their previous book that the Nazi gun law served as a model for
     America's Gun Control Act of 1968. Simkin et al, supra note 2, at
     2. The theory is actually not quite as absurd as it might seem at
     first glance. The 1968 American law was primarily the work of
     Connecticut Senator Thomas J. Dodd, who served as a senior
     prosecutor on the American legal staff at the Nuremburg trials.
     Dodd was apparently familiar with the Nazi gun laws. See Lewis C.
     Coffin, Law Librarian, Library of Congress, to Senator Thomas J.
     Dodd, July 12, 1968 (sending Dodd a translation of the 1938 Nazi
     gun law, and noting that Dodd has supplied the Library of Congress
     with his own German text of the law). It is also true that Senator
     Dodd, as a Nuremburg prosecutor, had no reason in any of his
     professional work to need a copy of the German gun control law.
     Id. at 79-80. But the fact that Dodd was interested in the Nazi
     law is hardly proof, by itself, that the Nazi law was the basis
     for the American law.

     Ultimately, any claim of linkage between the two laws must depend
     on common elements in those laws. What similarities do Simkin and
     Zelman see between the 1938 German law and the 1968 American law?
     Both laws: exempted the government from the controls that applied
     to law-abiding citizens; treated firearms ownership as a privilege
     granted by the government rather than as a right; and required
     that gun buyers meet some test of reliability. The 1968 American
     law requires the gun purchaser to affirm under felony penalty that
     he is not a convicted felon, dishonorably discharged from the
     military, an alcoholic, a drug user, or otherwise disqualified
     under federal law.) Simkin & Zelman, supra note 22, at 83. All
     these features are indeed common to the 1938 Nazi and 1968
     American laws. But these features are common to virtually any gun
     control anywhere in the world. The premise of the vast majority of
     gun laws around the globe, before and after 1938, is that the
     government can be trusted with weapons, but certain classes of
     citizens should not, and accordingly gun acquisition or ownership
     should be regulated by the government so as to disarm those
     untrustworthy classes. These three common features, rather than
     proving that the American law derives from the Nazi law, simply
     prove that American and Nazi law both followed the standard
     world-wide pattern of gun control.

     A fourth feature common to the Nazi and American laws is more
     intriguing. The Nazi law allowed guns with particular features to
     be banned based on governmental determination that they were not
     "sporting." The American law allowed the government to prohibit
     the import of guns which the government did not find to be
     "particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting
     purposes." Gun Control Act of 1968, Pub. L. 90-618, 82 Stat. 1213
     (codified as amended at 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3)).

     The distinction between supposedly benign "sporting" weapons
     (supposedly used for killing animals) and other weapons (which
     might be used for killing government troops) is not, however,
     original to Nazi law. The 1921 Firearms Act in Great Britain, for
     example, set up a licensing system for handguns and rifles, but
     left shotguns unregulated. Although the Act did not use the word
     "sporting," the reason that shotguns were treated differently from
     rifles and handguns is that shotguns were seen as benign sports
     instruments for bird-hunting, whereas rifles and handguns were (in
     the wake of World War I) considered military weapons whose main
     purpose was anti-personnel. David B. Kopel, The Samurai, The
     Mountie, and The Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of
     Other Democracies? 78-79 (1992).

     [47] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 187.

     [48] Id. at 188.

     [49] Id.

     [50] Id.

     [51] Id. at 190.

     [52] Id. at 229-234.

     [53] Id. at 230.

     [54] Id. at 237. The law actually listed particular firearms
     manufacturers ("as for example, a rifle or carbine made by Henry,
     Winchester, Sneider [sic], Remington, etc.). Id. The 1971
     Guatemalan law was one of the very few brand-specific gun control
     laws ever enacted, until American local governments began enacting
     "assault weapon" bans in the late 1980's that defined "assault
     weapon" not by characteristic, but by brand name and model. David
     B. Kopel, Hold Your Fire, Pol'y Rev., Jan. 1993, at 58.

     [55] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 231.

     [56] Id.

     [57] Id.

     [58] Id. at 232.

     [59] Peter Calvert, Guatemala: A Nation in Turmoil 75 (1985),
     quoted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 232.

     [60] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 232.

     [61] Id.

     [62] Id. at 233.

     [63] Id.

     [64] Id.

     [65] Id.

     [66] Id.

     [67] By way of historical precedent, some American colonies bought
     guns for militiamen who could not afford their own. Don B. Kates,
     Jr., Handgun Prohibition and the Original Meaning of the Second
     Amendment, 82 Mich. L. Rev. 204, 215 n.46 (1983).

     [68] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 233.

     [69] Id.

     [70] Id.

     [71] Id.

     [72] Id. at 234.

     [73] Id. at 229.

     [74] Id. at 234.

     [75] Id.

     [76] Amnesty International, Guatemala: The Human Rights Record
     150-51 (1987), reprinted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 234.
     By way of disclosure, I should note that I have been a monthly
     donor to Amnesty International since 1984.

     [77] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 234.

     [78] Id. at 275, 280. See also Angus Denning et al., Idi Amin's
     Rule of Blood, Newsweek, Mar. 7, 1977, at 29.

     [79] The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour: Excerpts of Bush News
     Conference, Saddam's Future; Gergen & Shields; A Quiet Patriotism
     (Educ. Broadcasting and GWETA television broadcast, Mar. 1, 1991).

     [80] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 280; Lee Stokes, Iraq Warns
     Against Foreign Interference in Kuwait, UPI, Aug. 2, 1990,
     available in LEXIS, News Library, UPI File.

     [81] Stokes, supra note 80.

     [82] See excerpt from Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, Schwarzkopf, in
     Newsweek, Sept. 28, 1992, at 52.

     [83] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 159.

     [84] Hilberg, supra note 38, at 1048.

     [85] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 269.

     [86] Id. at 271.

     [87] Id.

     [88] Id. at 272.

     [89] Id. at 274.

     [90] Id. at 271, 274, 283-99.

     [91] Id. at 277.

     [92] Id. at 276.

     [93] Id. at 278.

     [94] Id. at 280.

     [95] Id.

     [96] Chet Lunner, Idi Amin Benefits from Desert Storm Protection,
     Gannett News Service, Feb. 11, 1991, available in LEXIS, News
     Library, GNS File.

     [97] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 305.

     [98] Id.

     [99] Id.

     [100] Id. at 305.

     [101] Id. at 306.

     [102] Id.

     [103] Id.

     [104] Alec Wilkinson, A Changed Vision of God, New Yorker, Jan.
     24, 1994, at 54-55, quoted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 306.
     Similarly, one refugee recalled the days after the Cuban
     revolution overthrew Batista: "We believed [Castro] when he said
     we should surrender our arms because we did not need guns now that
     we were a free country . . . [and] we rushed to the police station
     to give up our guns." Lin Williams, The Rise of Castro: 'If only
     we hadn't given up our guns!', Medina County Gazette, Oct. 15,
     1976, at 5.

     [105] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 306.

     [106] Id.

     [107] Id. at 312.

     [108] Pin Yathay, Stay Alive, My Son 102 (N.Y., Simon & Schuster
     1987), quoted in Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 314.

     [109] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 315.

     [110] Id. As with the other nations studied, the authors use a
     conservative estimate for the total number of deaths. Other
     scholars of genocide put the number of killings in Cambodia much
     higher. R.J. Rummel, Death by Government 175 (1994).

     [111] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 316.

     [112] Philip Shenon, Pol Pot, the Mass Murderer Who Is Still Alive
     and Well, N.Y. Times, Feb. 6, 1994, § 4 (Business), at 1.

     [113] Mao Tse-Tung, Mao Tse-Tung on Guerilla Warfare, (S. Griffith
     trans., 1961), cited in Raymond Kessler, Gun Control and Political
     Power, 5 L. & Pol'y Q. 395 (1983).

     [114] Kates, supra note 67, at 270.

     [115] Sanford Levinson, The Embarrassing Second Amendment, 99 Yale
     L.J. 637, 657 (1989).

     [116] Letter from Lloyd R. Cohen, George Mason University School
     of Law, to David B. Kopel (Nov. 15, 1994) (on file with author).

     [117] Gary Kleck, Point Blank 18 (1991).

     [118] U.S. Treasury, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms,
     Press Release, No. FY-91-35, May 22, 1991 (as updated), cited in
     Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 71, 73.

     [119] Dean Speir, Reloading Equipment: The 1994 Reloader's Product
     Guide, Shooting Industry, Jan. 1994, at 44, available in LEXIS,
     News library, ASAPII file.

     [120] Barnaby J. Feder, As Gun Debate Rages, Ammunition Makers Are
     Quietly, and Busily, at Work, N.Y. Times, Mar. 20, 1992, at A20.

     [121] Tom Gresham, Don't Bury that Rifle: Fear of Gun Control
     Spurs Hoarding, Sports Afield, Jan. 1995, at 28, available in
     LEXIS, News library, ASAPII file.

     [122] Ammunition, if kept dry, has a shelf life of at least
     several decades.

     [123] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 69.

     [124] Id. at 71.

     [125] Id. at 158.

     [126] For example, some of the forced population exchanges between
     Greece and Turkey and the Jewish Diaspora after the failed revolt
     against the Roman Empire.

     [127] Id. at 21. Even if the conflict between the European
     settlers and the Indians is viewed as war between sovereign
     nations, the war (on both sides) included numerous attacks on
     non-combatants and many successful attempts to starve civilian
     populations into submission.

     [128] Id.

     [129] Id. at 21-23.

     [130] Id. at 23.

     [131] Id.

     [132] Id.

     [133] Id. at 24.

     [134] Id.

     [135] Id.

     [136] Gallup Poll released Dec. 20, 1944, question 2, in 1 The
     Gallup Poll: Public Opinion 1935-1971, at 477 (1972).

     [137] Roger Daniels, Prisoners Without Trial: Japanese Americans
     in World War II 114 (1993).

     [138] Id. at 112.

     [139] Id. at 110-14.

     [140] Michael W. Fitzgerald, "To Give our Votes to the Party":
     Black Political Agitation and Agricultural Change in Alabama,
     1865-1870, 76 J. Am. Hist. 489 (1989).

     [141] See text accompanying note 23.

     [142] Susan F. Rasky, Officials Urge a Wide Military Role in Drug
     Fight, N.Y. Times, June 10, 1988, at A32; Peggy Noonan, The Sound
     of Ed Koch Clapping, N.Y. Times, Apr. 29, 1990, §7 (Book Review),
     at 1.

     [143] See Debra Nussbaum, Crown Heights Indictment Raises Hopes,
     Intermountain Jewish News, Aug. 19, 1994, at 7.

     [144] Michael Barone & Grant Ujifusa, The Almanac of American
     Politics 1994, at 531-32 (1993).

     [145] Id.

     [146] Ruth E. Gruber, Italian Leader Blames Jews for Fall of Lira,
     Intermountain Jewish News, Aug. 19, 1994, at 3.

     [147] Hunting is obviously not very pleasant for the prey. But
     unless one is prepared to go as far as to argue that humans should
     intervene to prevent animals from hurting each other, it is
     difficult to argue that a deer which is killed by a clean shot
     from a high-powered hunting rifle is not better off than a deer
     which dies after being torn apart by a wolf-pack, or dies a slow,
     painful death from starvation in the winter.

     [148] Don B. Kates, Jr., The Second Amendment and the Ideology of
     Self-Protection, 9 Const. Commentary 87, 98-99 (1992).

     [149] 1 William Blackstone, Commentaries on the Law of England 139
     (Chicago: U. Chi. Pr.,1979)(1765).

     [150] Joyce Malcolm, To Keep and Bear Arms 9 (1994), quoting Sir
     Walter Raleigh, 3 The Works of Sir Walter Raleigh 22 (T. Birch
     ed., 1829).

     [151] Tench Coxe, Pa. Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788, quoted in Stephen
     Halbrook, To Keep and Bear Their Private Arms: The Adoption of the
     Second Amendment, 1787-1791, 10 N. Ky. L. Rev. 13, 17 (1982).

     [152] Quoted in David Hardy, The Second Amendment As a Restraint
     on State and Federal Firearms Restrictions, in Restricting
     Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out 184-85 (Don B. Kates,
     Jr., ed., 1979).

     [153] Kates, supra note 148, at 90. Armed resistance to criminal
     government was seen simply as a larger case of resistance to a
     lone criminal, a right which was so generally accepted as to not
     even be questioned. Id.

     Among the more recent articles taking the individual right
     position are: William Van Alstyne, The Second Amendment and the
     Personal Right to Arms, 43 Duke L.J. 1236 (1994); Akhil Amar, The
     Bill of Rights As a Constitution, 100 Yale L.J. 1131, 1162 (1991);
     Elaine Scarry, War and the Social Contract: Nuclear Policy,
     Distribution, and the Right to Bear Arms, 139 U. Pa. L. Rev. 1257
     (1991); Robert J. Cottrol & Raymond T. Diamond, The Second
     Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration, 80 Geo.
     L.J. 309, 319 (1991); Stephen P. Halbrook, The Right of the People
     or the Power of the State: Bearing Arms, Arming Militias, and the
     Second Amendment, 26 Val. U. L. Rev. 131, 135 (1991).

     See e.g., Levinson, supra note 115; Stephen P. Halbrook, A Right
     to Bear Arms: State and Federal Bills of Rights and Constitutional
     Guarantees (1989); Stephen Halbrook, Encroachments of the Crown on
     the Liberty of the Subject: Pre-Revolutionary Origins Of the
     Second Amendment, 15 U. Dayton L. Rev. 91 (1989); David Hardy, The
     Second Amendment and the Historiography of the Bill of Rights, 4
     J.L. & Pol'y 1 (1997); Nelson Lund, The Second Amendment,
     Political Liberty and the Right to Self-Preservation, 39 Ala. L.
     Rev. 103 (1987); Robert Shalhope, The Armed Citizen in the Early
     Republic, 49 L. & Contemp. Probs. 125 (1986); Don B. Kates, Jr., A
     Dialogue on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, 49 L. & Contemp.
     Probs. 143 (1986); David Hardy, Armed Citizens, Citizen Armies:
     Toward a Jurisprudence of the Second Amendment, 9 Harv. J.L. &
     Pub. Pol'y 559 (1986); William Marina, Weapons, Technology and
     Legitimacy: The Second Amendment in Global Perspective in Firearms
     and Violence: Issues of Public Policy (Don B. Kates, Jr. ed.,
     1984); Robert Dowlut, The Current Relevancy of Keeping and Bearing
     Arms, 15 U. Balt. L. Rev. 32 (1984); Don B. Kates, Jr., Handgun
     Prohibition and the Original Meaning of the Second Amendment, 82
     Mich. L. Rev. 204, 244-52 (1983); Joyce Lee Malcolm, The Right of
     the People to Keep and Bear Arms: The Common Law Perspective, 10
     Hast. Const. L.Q. 285 (1983); Robert Dowlut, The Right to Arms, 36
     Okla. L. Rev. 65 (1983); Senate Subcomm. on the Constitution of
     the Comm. on the Judiciary, 97th Cong., 2d Sess., The Right to
     Keep and Bear Arms (1982); David Caplan, The Right of the
     Individual to Bear Arms, 1982 Det. C.L. Rev. 789 (1982); Richard
     E. Gardiner, To Preserve Liberty--A Look at the Right to Keep and
     Bear Arms, 10 N. Ky. L. Rev. 63 (1982); Robert Shalhope, The
     Ideological Origins of the Second Amendment, 69 J. Am. Hist. 599
     (1982); Charles L. Cantrell, The Right to Bear Arms: A Reply, 53
     Wis. B. Bull. 21 (1980).

     Compare two articles which agree that the Second Amendment does
     not prevent gun prohibition today but which acknowledge that the
     Second Amendment was intended to confer an individual right. David
     C. Williams, Civic Republicanism and the Citizen Militia: The
     Terrifying Second Amendment, 101 Yale L.J. 551 (1991), reasons
     that since state governments have neglected their duties to
     promote responsible gun use through drill in a "well-regulated
     militia," the right to arms is no longer valid. Donald L. Beschle,
     Reconsidering the Second Amendment: Constitutional Protection for
     a Right of Security, 9 Hamline L. Rev. 69 (1986) concludes that
     the Amendment guarantees an individual right of personal security,
     but the right can be protected by outlawing firearms. Articles
     concluding that the Second Amendment confers only a right on
     states, and not on persons, are Samuel Fields, Guns, Crime and the
     Negligent Gun Owner, 10 N. Ky. L. Rev. 141 (1982); Warren
     Spannaus, State Firearms Regulation and the Second Amendment, 6
     Hamline L. Rev. 383 (1983); Lawrence Cress, An Armed Community:
     The Origins and Meaning of the Right to Bear Arms, 71 J. Am. His.
     22 (1983); Keith A. Ehrman & Dennis A. Henigan, The Second
     Amendment in the Twentieth Century: Have You Seen Your Militia
     Lately? 15 Dayton L. Rev. 5 (1989); Dennis A. Henigan, Arms,
     Anarchy and the Second Amendment, 26 Val. U. L. Rev. 107 (1991).

     Forty-three state constitutions include their own right to bear
     arms provision. See generally, Robert Dowlut, State Constitutional
     Rights to Bear Arms: Traditional Interpretation and Public
     Housing, 5 St. Thomas L. Rev. 203 (1992).

     One interesting piece of new scholarship argues that an individual
     right to own handguns for personal protection can be found in the
     federal Ninth Amendment. Nicholas J. Johnson, Beyond the Second
     Amendment: An Individual Right to Arms Viewed through the Ninth
     Amendment, 24 Rutgers L.J. 1 (1992).

     [154] Esther 8:11, 9:5, 9:16 (King James). The King James version
     was used in eighteenth-century America. Religious scholars now
     concur that the Book of Esther is probably ahistorical, a fact
     that does not invalidate its theological significance. 1 Isaac
     Asimov, Asimov's Guide to the Bible 462 (1968).

     [155] Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince 54 (Daniel Donno ed. &
     trans., Bantam Books 1966).

     [156] Joel Barlow, Advice to the Privileged Orders in the Several
     States of Europe: Resulting from the Necessity and Propriety of a
     General Revolution in the Principle of Government 45 (London,
     1792, 1795 & reprint 1956).

     Barlow's viewpoint is shared by Raymond Kessler, a Marxist
     political scientist who argues that a disarmed populace is more
     likely to feel dependent on the government and therefore is
     unwilling to question fundamental social issues. See Raymond
     Kessler, Gun Control and Political Power, 5 Law & Pol'y Q. 383
     (1983).

     [157] The best quantitative analysis of all of these issues can be
     found in Kleck, supra note 117. The book was awarded the Hindelang
     Prize by the American Society of Criminology for making the most
     significant contribution to criminology in a three-year period.

     [158] Closer analysis suggests that very little, if any, of the
     difference between the American homicide rate and the homicide
     rate in other democratic nations is due to gun control laws. See
     Kopel, supra note 46.

     [159] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 4.

     [160] The statistics on "assault weapons" and their utility in
     insurrection are detailed at length in Simkin et al., supra note
     2, at 39-48. See also David B. Kopel, Rational Basis Analysis of
     "Assault Weapon" Prohibition, 20 J. Contemp. Law 381 (1994). [Same
     data available in David B. Kopel, Assault Weapons, in  Guns: Who
     Should Have Them (David B. Kopel, ed., 1997).]

     [161] David B. Kopel, Guns--In Whose Hands? (forthcoming
     manuscript on file with the author). [Published as David B. Kopel,
     Background Checks and Waiting Periods, in  Guns: Who Should Have
     Them (David B. Kopel, ed., 1997).]

     [162] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 25-27.

     Even much of the rhetoric is the same. Today's "gun-free zones"
     are the direct progeny of "drug-free zones."

     The Anti-Saloon League at the beginning of the twentieth century
     complained that there were more saloons in the United States than
     there were schools, libraries, hospitals, theaters, parks, or
     churches. Id. at 25. This complaint pre-figures the complaint of
     the handgun prohibitionist Violence Policy Center that
     late-20th-century America has "More Gun Dealers than Gas
     Stations."

     The "More X than Y" complaints, while accompanied by high moral
     dudgeon, often reflect a failure to think through simple
     economics. A saloon can profitably operate with a few dozen
     customers a day, only a few of which may be in a saloon at a given
     moment. In contrast, few hospitals can pay their expenses by
     having only a half-dozen beds occupied at a given moment. Unlike
     saloons (which need only chairs, tables, a bar, and a supply of
     alcohol), hospitals generally require large investments in capital
     assets--again making the existence of a few large hospitals much
     more viable than numerous small hospitals. So it should not be
     surprising that there are fewer hospitals than saloons and that
     most hospitals are much larger than most saloons.

     Similarly, until the Clinton administration's recent "crack-down,"
     it was possible for a person to operate a firearms business as a
     second business from the home, selling a few dozen guns a year to
     friends by working an evening or two a week. In contrast, gasoline
     dealers cannot operate profitably without staying open most
     daylight hours and attracting a huge traffic of mostly anonymous
     customers. Selling firearms from one's home requires almost no
     capital investment, whereas operating a gas station requires a
     significant capital investment in the station itself, as well as
     in the (increasingly-expensive) storage tanks and fuel pumps that
     must comply with environmental regulations. Again, it should not
     be surprising that more small businesspeople can become part-time
     dealers of firearms than can become full-time operators of capital
     intensive gas stations. The fact that America has more gun dealers
     than gas stations (and more saloons than hospitals) should
     surprise only a person who is ignorant of economics, and who
     expects that the quantity of any given item in society should be
     in proportion to his appraisal of its moral worth.

     [163] David B. Kopel, Guns, Germs, and Science, 84 J. Med. Assoc.
     Ga. (forthcoming June 1995).

     [164] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 75.

     [165] Id. at vi.

     [166] See René Lemarchand, The Apocalypse in Rwanda, Cultural
     Survival Q., Summer/Fall 1994, at 29.

     [167] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 14.

     [168] R.J. Rummel, Statistics of Democide: Estimates, Sources and
     Calculations on 20th Century Genocide and Mass Murder (1994) (this
     book is a statistical companion to R.J. Rummel, Death by
     Government, supra note 110.)

     [169] See Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 187-228. As with the
     countries described in Lethal Laws, the gun controls were
     generally not instituted by the genocidal regimes; rather, the
     laws were in place before the murderous government took office.

     Unless Yugoslavia, North Korea, and Vietnam had different gun
     control policies from those of every other Communist government
     whose gun laws have been studied in the West, these nations would
     have had strict gun controls. Mexico currently has quite strict
     gun laws. Robert L. Nay, Law Library of Congress, Firearms
     Regulations in Various Foreign Countries 124-34 (1990). But
     further research is needed to determine the state of Mexican gun
     ownership by civilians in the early twentieth century. Further
     research is likewise required regarding gun laws in Pakistan and
     Czarist Russia. The victims of the Japanese mass murders were not
     Japanese, but citizens of other Asian nations, and the details of
     gun laws in those nations in the 1930s and 1940s are generally
     sketchy (except in China).

     [170] These nations are almost all contemporary confirmation of
     James Madison's observation that a tyranny in which the government
     is controlled by a dictatorship, "could not be safe with a
     numerical and physical force against it, without a standing Army,
     an enslaved press, and a disarmed populace." James Madison
     Autobiography, 2 Wm. & Mary Q. 191, 208 (1945).

     [171] See Joseph E. Persico, Nuremberg: Infamy on Trial (1994).

     [172] Bosnia is the victim of an international arms embargo that
     has disarmed the victims but not the aggressors. Thomas L.
     Friedman, Foreign Affairs; Free Advice, N.Y. Times, Apr. 19, 1995,
     at A23.

     [173] Ken Adelman, Trials to Rekindle International Justice, Wash.
     Times, Oct. 6, 1994, at A19.

     [174] Teaching tolerance does not, however, have to be synonymous
     with indoctrinating political correctness.

     [175] See Bruce L. Benson, The Enterprise of Law: Justice Without
     the State (1990); Cf. Pierre Claustres, Society Against the State
     (1987).

     [176] As a starting point, I would favor immediate repeal of the
     requirement that children be issued social security numbers in
     order to be claimed as tax deductions. Internal Revenue Service,
     Publication 501: Exemptions, Standard Deduction, and Filing
     Information 17 (1994).

     [177] "You can have my gun when you take it from my cold, dead
     fingers" is a common bumper sticker or t-shirt motto for some gun
     owners, including the Sheriff of Graham County, Arizona, who used
     it as the title of his book defending the right to keep and bear
     arms. Richard Mack, From My Cold, Dead Fingers (1994). Sheriff
     Mack was the plaintiff in one of the several lawsuits in which the
     Brady Act's unfunded mandate that local law enforcement perform a
     background check on handgun buyers was declared a violation of the
     Tenth Amendment. Mack v. United States, No. CIV 94-113 TCUC JMR
     (D. Ariz., June 29, 1994).

     [178] Simkin et al., supra note 2, at 71. Interestingly, one of
     the former Presidents of Amnesty International USA, a New York
     attorney named Mark Benenson, now heads the National Foundation
     for Firearms Education, a group devoted to protecting Second
     Amendment rights.

     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     [ JPFO Home  >  Gun Control -- The KEY to GENOCIDE!  >  Review of
     Lethal Laws ]
     ------------------------------------------------------------------
     © 1997, 1998, 1999 JPFO < webmaster@jpfo.org >

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                [click here]
                                Click Here!
eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.