The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/m/martin.willie/13texan-list/13texan.9909-01


Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 00:12:45 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >What would you concsider "proof," David? Tell us what your standards of
> >evidence are.
>
> One shread of evidence....One written communication from one German officer
> to another...in a country of 60 million people, that should be very easy to
> produce....The Germans are very careful record-keepers....And it is not
> practical to believe that everything was done word-of-mouth......Only
> children believe in the holocaust....adults need proof.....Jews were
> traitors that were concentrated...nothing more, nothing less...You still
> have not proved that there was a concerted effort on the part of the Third
> Riech to kill Jews.....and you have had over 50 years to do it...Time is
> running out.

Thank you for your kind response. I am pleased to see that you will accept one
written communication "from one German officer to another," because there are a
good many of those. How many of these would you like to see, David?

Does this suggest anything to you, David:

"Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen.
Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg
herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine
Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muß die
notwendige Folge sein"

"With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean
sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war,
they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn't just a catch-word.
The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary
consequence." (Joseph Goebbels, diary entry, Dec. 12, 1941)

On Dec. 18, 1941, Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler wrote, in his notes regarding a
meeting with Hitler at the Wolfsschanze,

"Judenfrage / als Partisanen auszurotten"

"Jewish Question / to be exterminated like the partisans"

Perhaps you would find the testimony of German officers of interest, David. The
most recent examples can be found in thr trial of Eichmann - nizkor has the
complete transcripts, at
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/ - Erich Von Dem
Bach Zelewski had this to say (among other things):

"At that time I also heard of illegal activity on the part of these Operations
Units. I believe that all generals in the East knew about this. By illegal
activity, I mean shootings by the Operations Units, which took place without
any basis in law. I was not informed as to the complete extent of this
activity. Only after the end of the War did I become aware of that. I should
also like to stress that both the Generals and I did not approve of this
illegal activity and were critical of it.

"As far as I know, for supply purposes the Operations Units were subordinate to
the Army Groups or Armies. From conversations I had with Nebe and his successor
Naumann, when I met them in Russia - both of whom led Operations Units - I got
to know that they received their operational orders directly from the Head
Office for Reich Security. I do not know any details as to how the orders were
transmitted, nor do I know any details about the actual orders. At the time I
understood the assignment of the Operations Units to be the liquidation of
underground movements and the extermination of Jews."

His last rank, by the way, was SS Obergruppenfuehrer and General of the
Waffen-SS and Police.

You might also want to read the Franke-Gricksch Report, which nizkor has, at
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/franke-gricksche.html -
there's an image of the German original.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:29:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> Phil
>
> How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
> body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?

Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The crematory
ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
extensive.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:34:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The only thinking warped is yours and that of your filthy
> >talmud.....you are
> >> an enemy of Christ, and that is obvious to all who have read what
> >what you
> >> have written...you and your lot will suffer the same fate you have
> >> experienced in every other country which you have fled.
> >
> >
> >It is your thinking that is warped. No true Christian would
coutenance
> >it for a minute. The only thing filthy about the Talmud are the lies
> >and distortion told about it. You should be more concerned with your
> >own fate on judgment day.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> Mathews, I don't believe for one minute that besides you, that there
> is anyone on this list that doesn't know the filth that resides in
> your Talmud.

What they think they know, or are more than willing to believe, is
neither here nor there. Like you, they probably know next to nothing
about it, except what is fed to them by antisemites, often website
based.

 It's common knowledge what is contained within the pages
> of it. It is anti-christ just like you apparently are.

It's is common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions of those
who seek a reason to denigrate Jews.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:36:42 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/99 11:44:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << And you're a Jew hater.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>   >>
> Thank You

Your welcome. Now explain it to the Lord.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 05:40:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

> >Charles wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=624
> >> Mr. Mathews it may intrest you to know that, Russian
> >> Jews killed over 60 million WHITE Christians during
> >> the Russian revolution. It is also a historical fact!
> >
> >How do you know they were all Christians? How do you know it was 60
> >million?  Where are all the bodies and what was the cause of death?
> >Have you seen 60 million autopsy reports? What evidence do you have
for
> >this historical fact?
> >>
> >> Now ask one of the White Christian victims or their
> >> families if they love the jews who killed them .
> >
> >They were not killed by Jews, they were killed by Soviet Communists,
>
>
> Same people!

Nonsense. I note you avoided answering the questions!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:22:11 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: philnancy@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:18:15 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-555-david_223 Tue Aug 31 06:23:40 1999
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>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=567
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: philnancy@aol.com
> > >Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
> > >To: 13texan@eGroups.com
> > >Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
> > >Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:23:18 -0700
> > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > >From 13texan-return-509-david_223 Mon Aug 30 13:25:47 1999
> > >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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> > >
> > >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=531
> > > > In a message dated 8/30/99 9:48:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > > philnancy@aol.com writes:
> > > >
> > > > << The fact that Karl Marx was a non practicing Jew doesn't mean
> > >Communism
> > > >  is a Jewish political system. I very much doubt your contention
>about
> > > >  1935 and the Politboro composition. Any source for it?
> > > >
> > > >  Philip Mathews >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My Awakening by David Duke 1998...This book will give you more
> > >references
> > > > than you would care to read.
> > >
> > >David Duke is bereft of any knowledge, education, or insight that
>would
> > >interest me. Mr. Duke is hardly an expert on communism or political
> > >philosophy.  His opinions are based on his racism and hatred, not
> > >learning.
> >
> >
> > And when the talmud states that it is ok for Jews to have sex with 3
>year
> > old little girls, what is that based
> > on?...education?...learning?...knowledge?..
>
>Believing that is based on gross ignorance and hate. You might as well
>quote me passages on the existence of UFO's and body snatching..........
>
>Philip Mathews

You're ranting....Here is what your dirty book states, as I'm sure you know
very well....but for the sake of Jesus' followers, I'll post it:

Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three
years "and a day" old)

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: What is really going on here.
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:35:25 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: What is really going on here.
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:08:36 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-566-david_223 Tue Aug 31 11:12:22 1999
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>
>Phil the jew lie I am speaking of is the lie that
>the KHAZAR jew are the people who were written about
>in the Bible.
>
>Now go argue with the jews at khazaria.com please!
>
>I will have no more...........
>
>Charles

So true, Charles...I believe that the jews really know that they are not
Israel; but neither do they care...it justs suits their interests to keep
this jew lie going....even the apostle Paul said that the jews were
"contrary to all men".....but someday the lie will be uncovered, and the
jews will again have to find another land to flee to; as they have had to so
many times in their dirty history.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:43:14 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:15:43 EDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-599-david_223 Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
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>
>In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>gormanh@home.com
>writes:
>
><< David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis? Were
>they also
>  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
>
>Herb,
>     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It wasn't
>"their"
>own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host country
>they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany even
>those in that country.....
>Michael Snead

Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933; not the
other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to allow the
Jews to keep their children with them in prison...Can you imagine how the
Jews would be screaming now, if Herr Hitler had ripped the little Jewish
babies out of their mother's arms?.....Some people are so hard to please,
Michael.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:49:16 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: philnancy@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:23:56 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>David Griffin wrote:
>
>
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=597
>
> >
> > I believe Mr. Snead asked you what what religion you adheared
>to....did I
> > miss your answer?
>
>You did not.
>
>
>...your tone is defineately Jewish...which would account
> > for your support of His enemies.
>
>Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
>are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
>Philip Mathews

You're ranting, Philip :)

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 09:00:30 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:54:51 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>31 20:56:23 1999
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>
>Phil
>
>How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
>body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?
>I do ! I was once offered the opportunity to attend a school
>to learn the art of cremation for a hospital where I worked.
>
>This is my last message to this list... God Bless and Keep
>His Sheep untill the time we all meet in His Kindom .
>
>Charles
>

Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with "Herb
Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of most of
the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

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Subject: [13texan] Be it know as for me !
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:23:29 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

> Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with "Herb
> Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of most of
> the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.
>
> Hail Jesus' Victory!
> David

   I really have no intrest in all this Who gassed jews etc... talk , I
am
mostly interested in Bible and Ealry Church History and fellowshiping
with
other Christian Identity people to learn views and share opinions about
these
subjects.

If anyone wants to talk about these subjects, I will welcome their input
into
this area of conversation... However I refuse to be drawn into this
Pro-Jewish
Pro-Communist propaganda.

1. I believe Adam was the first white man.
2. Eve had sex with the evil one.
3. Christ Kingdom is hear and no as well as in His Fathers House
[Heaven]
that it is a spiritual place where flesh and blood can not enter into.
4. When we who are saved die we go to live with Christ in His Kindom and
that His Kindom is not and nor will it ever be part of this earth.

If someone comment does not address these issues I care not to readdress
them!

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:08:34 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> > > >
> > > >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=531
> > > > > In a message dated 8/30/99 9:48:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > > > > philnancy@aol.com writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > << The fact that Karl Marx was a non practicing Jew doesn't
mean
> > > >Communism
> > > > >  is a Jewish political system. I very much doubt your
contention
> >about
> > > > >  1935 and the Politboro composition. Any source for it?
> > > > >
> > > > >  Philip Mathews >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My Awakening by David Duke 1998...This book will give you more
> > > >references
> > > > > than you would care to read.
> > > >
> > > >David Duke is bereft of any knowledge, education, or insight that
> >would
> > > >interest me. Mr. Duke is hardly an expert on communism or
political
> > > >philosophy.  His opinions are based on his racism and hatred, not
> > > >learning.
> > >
> > >
> > > And when the talmud states that it is ok for Jews to have sex
with 3
> >year
> > > old little girls, what is that based
> > > on?...education?...learning?...knowledge?..
> >
> >Believing that is based on gross ignorance and hate. You might as
well
> >quote me passages on the existence of UFO's and body
snatching..........
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
> You're ranting....Here is what your dirty book states, as I'm sure
you know
> very well....but for the sake of Jesus' followers, I'll post it:
>
> Sanhedrin 55b . A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically,
three
> years "and a day" old)

It is the manner of the Talmud to examine extreme theoretical cases in
order to precisely define and delineate legal concepts.
Such study is mandated because the laws are part of the Written and
Oral Torah, not necessarily because they have practical
application.

There are different legal consequences arising from an act of
intercourse (related to personal status, punishment for rape,
property rights etc.) and the Talmud investigates whether such an act
committed on a baby girl has the status of intercourse or
not. There is an ancient tradition that states that if the girl is
older than the age of three then an act of intercourse was
committed; before that age, such an act does not have the status of
sexual intercourse for legal purposes (it may be an act of
assault, of course).

The passage in question states as follows: "A girl of three years and a
day is [capable of being] married by an act of intercourse
..." and the Talmud continues to list further legal consequences of an
act of intercourse (laws of personal status, property etc.).

The reference to marriage refers to a case in which the father of the
girl delivers his daughter to a man with the intention that he
create a marriage bond with his daughter by having relations with her.
>From a legal point of view this procedure creates a
marriage with all the legal consequences that flow therefrom. This is a
legal conclusion which has nothing to do with rabbinic
endorsement of such practices or with the number of such occurrences in
history.

In fact the rabbis strongly opposed formation of the marriage bond by
intercourse (at any age) and punished those who acted
in such manner (Kidushin 12b). They further taught that the father's
right to marry off his daughter was to be used for her
benefit. The age and manner of marriage is to a large extent a societal
variable but at Kidushin 41a the rabbis taught: "It is
forbidden for a man to betroth his daughter while she is young [but
rather he should wait] till she has grown and says 'This is
the one I want [to marry]" and this teaching is repeated elsewhere in
the Talmud.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:22:15 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=659
>
>
>
> >From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
> >Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
> >To: 13texan@egroups.com
> >Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
> >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:15:43 EDT
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >From 13texan-return-599-david_223 Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
> >Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
> >MHotMailB995E4FE003AD82197BBCF8A29922036118; Tue Aug 31 20:16:52 1999
> >Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
> >04:15:49 -0000
> >Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
> >X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
> >X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
> >Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
> >Received: (qmail 15676 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 03:15:48
-0000
> >Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (205.188.157.35) by qg.egroups.com
with
> >SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 03:15:48 -0000
> >Received: from SNEADSTER@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com
(mail_out_v22.4.) id
> >aIMVxYd5__ (3963) for <13texan@egroups.com>; Tue, 31 Aug 1999
23:15:43
> >-0400 (EDT)
> >Message-ID: 
> >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10
> >
> >In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >gormanh@home.com
> >writes:
> >
> ><< David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis?
Were
> >they also
> >  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
> >
> >Herb,
> >     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It
wasn't
> >"their"
> >own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host
country
> >they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany
even
> >those in that country.....
> >Michael Snead
>
>
> Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933;
not the
> other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to
allow the
> Jews to keep their children with them in prison...Can you imagine how
the
> Jews would be screaming now, if Herr Hitler had ripped the little
Jewish
> babies out of their mother's arms?.....Some people are so hard to
please,
> Michael.

You've mangled the facts, unfortunately. First, German Jews as a group
made no declaration at all. You are referring to the announcement by
the World Jewish Congress that it would support the democracies in the
imminent war. Nazi apologists have labled this a declaration of war in
an attempt to fabricated some excuse for the Nazi treatment of Jews.
The World Jewish Congess did not speak for all Jews, and it did not
declare war. Nations with governmental powers and standing armies
declare and wage war and European Jews had neither.

You've also got the year wrong. The announcement was made in 1939.
During the years prior to this Jews were removed from many professions,
property confiscated, beaten, killed and their businesses confiscated.
The passage of the Nuremberg laws in 1935, stripping Jews of
citizenship among other things, and the widespread destruction of
Jewish businesses and Temples during Kristallnacht, highlighted the
years of repression leading up to the brink of war. So the
pronouncement by the World Jewish Congress was a response to many years
of outright repression of Jews by the Nazis, not the other way around.

These actions against Jews in the 1930's were mere prelude to the
deadly Final Solution attempted beginning in 1941.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:24:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >
> >David Griffin wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=597
> >
> > >
> > > I believe Mr. Snead asked you what what religion you adheared
> >to....did I
> > > miss your answer?
> >
> >You did not.
> >
> >
> >...your tone is defineately Jewish...which would account
> > > for your support of His enemies.
> >
> >Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
> >are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> You're ranting, Philip :)

Nope, a proper assessment of the situation.

Philip Mathews
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 10:25:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> >Phil
> >
> >How do you cremate bodys in a over where no fire tuches the
> >body ? Do you know how much heat it take to cremate a body?
> >I do ! I was once offered the opportunity to attend a school
> >to learn the art of cremation for a hospital where I worked.
> >
> >This is my last message to this list... God Bless and Keep
> >His Sheep untill the time we all meet in His Kindom .
> >
> >Charles
> >
>
> Don't let them get to you, Charles...Just delete every message with
"Herb
> Gorman" or "philnancy" before you open it up...that will get rid of
most of
> the jewish trash.....hang in there, bro...we need ya'.

Ah, so you think Jews are trash?

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:00:09 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil,
    At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so with the
1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course take 60%
longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would take 12
minutes 48 seconds. Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the breast)
in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12 minutes 48
seconds.
    Without stopping for cleanup of the human and coal ashes it would take
534 burn days to accomplish that feat. No aerial photographs were taken with
billows of black smoke pouring from the smoke stacks taken by allied forces.
[Why would the allied forces touch up photos to eliminate the smoke, if
anything they would have added smoke to make their case strong in the
Nuremberg kangaroo courts]. There would have been tons of ash from both human
and coal. Also we all know that Jews don't burn well, i.e. Shadrach Meshach
and Abednego.
Michael Snead
14-88

In a message dated 9/1/99 8:31:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The crematory
 ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
 noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
 various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
 extensive. >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:05:10 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil,
    It's is real common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions of those
who seek a reason to vindicate the Jews.

Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 11:18:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Sneed wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=668
> Phil,
>     At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so
with the
> 1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course
take 60%
> longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would
take 12
> minutes 48 seconds.

You've made an erroneous assumption. I was asked a temperature for
cremation. Approx. 1500 is the minimum temperature target, the ovens at
Auschwitz ran much hotter. But this is irrlevant since your following
assumptions are also in error.

 Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
> 600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the
breast)
> in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12
minutes 48
> seconds.

Actually based on testimony and the operating manual of the
manufacturer, the time was about twice this long at Auschwitz. But you
assume individual body cremations, such as you would find in a
commercial crematory. The Nazis put 2, 3 and occasionally more bodies
into a retort at a single time.  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
in full operation.  Try the math with that data!

>     Without stopping for cleanup of the human and coal ashes it would
take
> 534 burn days to accomplish that feat.

Incorrect assumptions, as noted above. By the way, they didn't use coal.

 No aerial photographs were taken with
> billows of black smoke pouring from the smoke stacks taken by allied
forces.

There are allied photographs ( a few) for only Auschwitz-Birkenau
during operation, so your contention is incorrect. Even for A-B there
are only a few photos taken over a few days. Your point is meaningless
in any event, no one denies the existence of crematory ovens at Nazi
camps.


> [Why would the allied forces touch up photos to eliminate the smoke,
if
> anything they would have added smoke to make their case strong in the
> Nuremberg kangaroo courts].

You've just answered your silly, and unsupported conspiracy theory.
They didn't. The trials involving the activities at the individual
camps are seperate from Nuremberg, which was not a kangaroo court.

> There would have been tons of ash from both human
> and coal.

Ash was buried, scattered in fields, and dissolved in the water of
lakes, ponds and at Auschwitz, the Vistula. Not a difficult process, as
the Nazi perpetrators told us.

 Also we all know that Jews don't burn well, i.e. Shadrach Meshach
> and Abednego.

Neither do your cremation theories!

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14-88
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/1/99 8:31:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Yes. The temperature usually must reach 1500 degress F. The
crematory
>  ovens built by the Nazis were more than capable of this. It should be
>  noted that very few deniers deny that cremation of bodies occurred at
>  various camps. The physical evidence and documentation are too
>  extensive. >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:43:48 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
    Your rhetoric is amusing.  When Charles wrote,"Jews killed over 60
million WHITE Christians during the Russian revolution. It is also a
historical fact!" You and I both know that he meant that they were of the
Christian persuasion. Now I have given you the title of this book once and
here it is again. THE WOLF OF THE KREMLIN written by the the nephew of Lazar
M. Kaganovich, Stuart Kahan. This murdering Jew, Kaganovich was responsible
for the death of 20 million Russians and even tells about it in the book.
Lenin was a Jew and Stalin was married to a Jew twice! His third wife was the
sister of Lazar M. Kaganovich. Trotsky was a Jew and the leaders of the
Bolshevik Revolution were all Jews. If you want proof start your research I
do not care to waste much time with you.

> >>
Philip wrote:
 >How do you know they were all Christians?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:06:15 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
    I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT PLAINLY
HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY. DATED: FRIDAY MARCH
26, 1933!  I HAVE THE BOOK ,  AMERICA FACES THE NEXT WAR BY JEW FRANK H.
SIMONDS.
Michael Snead
14/88

In a message dated 9/1/99 1:26:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< The World Jewish Congess did not speak for all Jews, and it did not
 declare war. Nations with governmental powers and standing armies
 declare and wage war and European Jews had neither.
  >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:12:57 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/1/99 2:21:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<<  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
 in full operation.  Try the math with that data!
  >>
I won't have to try the math for the simple fact that the coal was not
availabe for the burns and nor was the rail system always intact for the
Barbecuing meat and fuel. highly impossible. The Jews have in my life time
tried to stroke the pity pockets of the masses and it is about to come to an
abrupt halt.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:27:54 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael,

Do like me and just don't respond to Philip. It is clear to
see that, it does not matter to him how many whites or Christians
died at the hands of the jews in past or present history for to
him anyone other that a jew is just goy [cattle]. He can't defend
the jew for his evil acts, can't prove any jews are related to
Israel of the bible or that the jews don't control world banks
and world goverments.

We on the other hand know these facts because they are written and
recorded in history books printed by the jews themseleves. I like
only one thing about jews, that being they have been unable to
hide any of the thing they have done in all history they like to
recordes it so very well for us to read as though they are proud
of it and fly it in our faces because the goy sleep for now.

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Subject: [13texan] Clinton and WWIII
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:33:10 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Subject:        NewsMax.com: Bill Clinton's "Third Term"
        Date:    Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:48:51 -0600
       From:    spiker 
    Reply-To:  texas_net@egroups.com
 Organization N/A

There are already three resolutions (all the same, but with different
numbers and various sponsors) to repeal the 22nd Amendment relating to
presidential term limitations.  All three bills have been referred to
the House
Committee on the Judiciary, and subsequently the Subcommittee on the
Constitution.

H.J. Res. 17 (introduced 1/6/99)
sponsors: Rep. Serrano, Jose
 Rep. Shays, Christopher

H.J. Res. 24 (introduced 2/28/99)
sponsors: Rep. Frank, Barney

H.J. Res. 38 (introduced 3/11/99)
sponsors: Rep. Hoyer, Steny H.
 Rep Hyde, Henry J.
 Rep Frank, Barney
 Rep Berman, Howard L,
 Rep Sensenbrenner, James, Jr.
 Rep Sabo, Martin Olav
 Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr.
 Rep Shays, Christopher

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=1999/8/29/171120

------------------------------------------------------------------------

          Inside Cover
   Bill Clinton's "Third Term"

      With Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

         For the story behind the story...

  Sunday August 29, 6:03 PM

  Bill Clinton's "Third Term"

  Sean David Morton is a futurologist. He says he can predict the
  future.

  Morton, no doubt, has many friends in Hollywood that like such
  new age stuff. A NewsMax reader sent us a copy of Morton's The
  Delphi Associates Newsletter. The following caught Inside
  Cover's eye:

  "I have now heard confirmation from three different sources who
  are very close to the Clintons that Bill has no intention of
  leaving the White House! At first I thought it was just
  right-wing paranoia. But a powerful woman friend of mine in
  entertainment (who must remain nameless!), who is a friend of
  Hillary's 'special friends,' was at the White House recently for
  a holiday. She said that Clinton spoke openly about finding a
  way to circumvent the Congress and the Constitution and find a
  way to stay on for another term, or stay president indefinitely.
  Incredulously, she asked how he was going to swing this feat of
  magic, and she said he got the most chilling, evil, demonic look
  in his eye that she had ever seen come from a human being, and
  he said, 'World War III.'"

  "This same story I heard from my lady friend, and another
  relation of the Clintons, was recently confirmed in an article
  by Ralph Forbes. It seems Clinton has been running this scheme
  past a number of his inner circle, and is actively seeking ways
  to implement his goal."

--

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:49:23 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles, my brother you are right. Ignoring. Deleting and read what willie
has for us to absorb.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Big Lie": Herb
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:08:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=669
> Phil,
>     It's is real common ignorance, based on the lies and distortions
of those
> who seek a reason to vindicate the Jews.

I'm afraid you'll have to try that again in English.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:16:52 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=671
> Philip,
>     Your rhetoric is amusing.  When Charles wrote,"Jews killed over
60
> million WHITE Christians during the Russian revolution.

Is there a conclusion to this sentence fragment?

 It is also a
> historical fact!" You and I both know that he meant that they were of
the
> Christian persuasion.

What is the evidence that each of the 60 million was Christian?

Now I have given you the title of this book once and
> here it is again. THE WOLF OF THE KREMLIN written by the the nephew
of Lazar
> M. Kaganovich, Stuart Kahan.

A single book is hardly sufficient for a charge of this sort. In fact,
it is highly suspicious, because such an event should have dozens of
histories concerning it, written by qualified historians, not Jew
haters. So however many time you cite this one book, you will have
presented no convincing evidence.

 This murdering Jew, Kaganovich was responsible
> for the death of 20 million Russians and even tells about it in the
book.

So you claim.


> Lenin was a Jew and Stalin was married to a Jew twice!

Yeah, and his mistress was a Catholic, I guess that means Catholics
killed 60 million Christians!

 His third wife was the
> sister of Lazar M. Kaganovich. Trotsky was a Jew and the leaders of
the
> Bolshevik Revolution were all Jews. If you want proof start your
research I
> do not care to waste much time with you.

Your not offering proof that Jews are responsible for the charge. Your
saying that  some Jews were involved in Communism, which did such and
such. Well, many other kinds of groups were involved as well. The vast
majority of Jews worldwide had nothing to do with Soviet Communism.
Your inability to understand this basic distinction stems from your
hatred of Jews and your mindless desire to find reasons, lacking a
factual basis though they may be, for your feelings.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:19 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

BTW...

Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:39:50 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=672
> Philip,
>     I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT
PLAINLY
> HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY. DATED: FRIDAY
MARCH
> 26, 1933!

No you don't. You're getting desperate now.

 I HAVE THE BOOK ,  AMERICA FACES THE NEXT WAR BY JEW FRANK H.
> SIMONDS.

I have lots of books.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:44 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles,
     As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to dust. No
one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
Michael Snead

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Subject: [13texan] 50 Jews
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:53:51 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead said:
Charles,
      As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to dust. No
one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
Michael Snead
~~~~~~~
Me: Michael, have you heard how you put 50 Jews in a Volkswagon? You put
them in the ashtray.

JM

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Subject: [13texan] "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:14:14 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Phil Mathews wrote:

Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.

Philip Mathews
~~~~~~~
Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list "anti-'Semitic,"
and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic blood
in him. In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the Germanus, or
germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after Assyrian
captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans. That means the Jews'
war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic, and God's curse
of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites. It's Shemite
anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they change
history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like nosey
little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little perverts.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Edom, Quote
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:43:51 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I said:

The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias
state, "Edom is in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no
link to this scripture. It was also Rabbi Stephen Wise who said that
Communism is Jewish. Of course, telling the truth is hate, but truth is
always hate to those who hate the truth.
~~~~~~~
Philip Mathews:
I don't suppose you have a citation for Rabbi Wise making that
statement? And saying hateful things about Jews has nothing to do with
truth.
~~~~~~~
Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which says that
"Edom is modern Jewry?" Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and Judaism
were the same, so go do your own research for once.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: who/what shemite/semitic
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:49:49 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> Just like the myth of the 4.5 million jews being gassed
> was invented.

Ed, can you point us to a source which says 4.5 million Jews were gassed? I would
like to read it. The material I've seen is more like 3 - 3.5 million gassed, 1
million murdered by the Einsatzgruppen, and another million or more dying from
other causes. Where did you find this figure?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: who's minding the list !
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:52:48 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> phil
>
> I don't have control over this list... but if it were
> mine I would have already blocked and removed your
> address from it :)

That's the classic fascist response to unwelcome realities... if you are
uncomfortable with what some people say, why censor them!

I guess that is ok for some people...me, I prefer polite conversation, but
if it works for you, go for it. I suppose it is a lot easier than dealing
with reality.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:59:05 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>        Let's just say for the sake of this Holohoax argument that The Nazis
> did kill 6 million Jews.....No let's give them ( those who even give a hoot)
> a benefit of a doubt and make it 15 million Jews.

Let's not, Michael. The figure 15 million is, and always has been, utter nonsense
- and I've yet to see a single credible source to support it, so let's stick with
6 million.

>     Now let's go back to Friday, March 26, 1933, The World Jewish Congress
> declared war on Germany and demanded a world wide ban on German product. That
> group alone bears a heavy responsibility on the deaths of  the Holohoax.

Oh, I love it when the "It was your fault you got murdered" routine comes out...
blaming the victims - an absolute classic, Michael! I guess what you are saying
is that if I ask my friends not to buy your products, you then have the right to
murder me. That works for you? Interesting.

Hey, Michael, how many divisions were there in the World Jewish Congress military
machine? Can you tell us that, or, say, how many ships they had in their navy?

While you're at it, Michael, perhaps you could explain *why* Jews were calling
for a boycott of German products... you (inadvertantly, I'm sure!) left that part
out...

> For six years these sick bastards exacerbated every national grievance
> and paranoia. They used their great financial power. They ran inflammatory
> articles about Germany. They used their powerful political and media
> influence to agitate for war and to feed the fires of hate, a fire still
> stroked by the media almost 60 years after the fact.

And this is all you need to start murdering them, is that right, Michael? Tell
me, Michael, was there some reason the world's Jews were upset with the Nazis?

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Subject: [13texan] "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:59:57 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the fostering of
hate and intolerance.

Philip Mathews
~~~~~~~
Me: I think this is fun with little Philip. He has been squirming like a
little worm ever since he threatened Ed Kadach and said his wife would "get
ripped."
    Little Philip talks about my Aryan brothers and sisters as fostering
"hate and intolerance." Now, let's take the first part, "hate." Telling the
truth to pore little Philip is "hate," unless he's saying that the Germans
gassed 6 million of his brethren. To say it didn't happened is also "denial"
as if it was ever a fact to begin with. "Intolerance" is another little gem
of the Jew. While we are to "resist" the devil and flee from him, little
Philip tells us to "tolerate." But to "tolerate" means to let all kinds of
bad things in which is the point of little Philip's diatribe. We are to
"tolerate" homosexuals which the Jew promotes as normal because so many of
them are sexual deviants themselves. Their own Talmud says it's okay to have
sex with a 3-year-old child. Philip would regard that as "tolerance," of
course, because he denies it's in the Talmud although so many of us here
have read that degenerate filth for ourselves.
    It's no where in scripture anywhere to tolerate, and it is the
anti-thesis of what Christ and St. Paul taught to "resist." So, the
resistance is right, and they're more right for going underground and doing
their work which bothers little Philip that such a thing really exists. So,
in desperation, the Jew cries for all kinds of "hate" crimes legislation as
if that will do a thing to stop the underground from doing their work like
all of the Eric's out there.
    One last point: "political correctness" and "tolerance" are the
opposites of each other. One cannot preach "political correctness" and
"tolerance" in the same breath because they are diametrically opposed to one
another. To demand "political correctness" is simply not "tolerant" of
little Philip. Boo-Hoo.
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:01:54 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/99 3:00:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gormanh@home.com
> writes:
>
> << David, what about the other 5,500,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis? Were
> they also
>  "bent on destroying their own country?" >>
>
> Herb,
>     As a matter of fact the Jews were bent on destroying Germany It wasn't
> "their" own country to begin with. Once the leaches finish with their host
> country
> they move on. Remember 1933 Jews world wide declared war on Germany even
> those in that country.....

So, if I may clarify your position, Michael.... would it be accurate to say that
you justify the murder of an infant-at-breast, in Latvia, for instance, because
Germany wasn't "their country to begin with?" Is that about right?

It was ok, in your mind, to murder 3 million Polish Jews because Western Jews
were boycotting bratwurst?

Interesting...

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:03:37 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> Mr. Mathews it may intrest you to know that, Russian
> Jews killed over 60 million WHITE Christians during
> the Russian revolution. It is also a historical fact!

I don't think so, Charles, but I could be wrong. Where can I find history
books that use this figure? (Personally, I think 20-25 million is about right,
but it was Stalin that ordered the famine, and he wasn't a Jew, but hey, who's
counting?)

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gassing
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:05:19 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> >The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe is considered an authority on
> >this issue (Dimensions of the Holocaust With Emphasis on Gassing) in
> >Germany, and has been used as a source of information on the Holocaust
> >in various trials of Nazi war criminals there.

> Keren, just another member of Nizkook. Real last name is Kerensky- a
> Zionist jew.

So, Ed, you have nothing to say about Germany's leading historical
institute's findings? After all, they have absolutely nothing to do with
Keren - he just wrote 'em a letter, right? I was hoping you'd want to talk
about what *they* had to say... I guess not.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:07:03 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

> Herbie,
>           1933 comes long before 1941 and like I said, I feel sorry for no
> one who self-inflicts anything upon themselves.

Well, I'm glad to see that you aren't denying it any longer. That's progress,
isn't it?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Burden of Proof
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:09:24 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

> You know Herb, I'd pay attention to Michael here. From what I've read of you
> I believe that there is hope for you. Seek out and research all the facts of
> this issue before you start looking only to Nizkor for all your answers.
> They have their agenda in place and I know it to be one of deception, the
> site is full of contradictions.

It archives thousands upon thousands of documents - of course there are
contradictions. But the material I've seen there is very well documented, so I
can always go the library and confirm what they're claiming, and make up my own
mind. Their agenda doesn't interest me at all, any more than yours does. Everyone
has one, Ed.

I prefer concerntrating on the FACTS, whatever they may be.  Try it some time.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:13:32 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Exactly, Michael....The German Jews declared war on Germany in 1933; not the
> other way around....And I think it was very kind of Herr Hitler to allow the

How many bombers were there in this "German Jews" military, David? How many
fighter aircraft did they have, that they had poor Fat Hermann worried?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:16:42 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>     At 2500 degrees it takes about 8 minutes to cremate a body so with the
> 1500 degrees being a 60% reduction in heat then it would of course take 60%
> longer to cremate a body. In other words at 1500 degrees it would take 12
> minutes 48 seconds. Lets say these imaginary ovens held ten bodies and the
> 600,000 that supposedly were cremated (excluding your babies of the breast)
> in the one camp there would have had to of been 60,000 burns at 12 minutes 48
> seconds.

For concise information about the process, see
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria. If the 600,000 you refer
to are the Belzec victims, then crematoria data is not relevant, since most of
those bodies were burned in pits. As we now know, there are thick layers of
blackened human fat and ash in many of these pits, confirming the means of
disposal beyond any doubt whatsoever.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Belzec investigation - mass graves found
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:26 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>     I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DAILY EXPRESS THAT IS A JEWISH NEWSPAPER THAT PLAINLY
> HEADLINES,"JEWISH 'DECLARATION OF WAR' AGAINST GERMANY.

I have it, too, Michael... one of the interesting things you've forgotten to
mention, of course, is this text:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

"A strange and unfortunate sequel has emerged from the stories of German
Jew-baiting.
"The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare an economic and
financial war on Germany.
"Hirtherto the cry has gone up: 'Germany is persecuting the Jews.' If the present
plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be: 'The Jews are persecuting
Germany.'

Prophetic, weren't they, Michael? I am so glad that you brought it up! Here's the
whole article, as found at
http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

Daily Express. London, March 24, 1933, pp. 1-2.

  J U D E A   D E C L A R E S   W A R   O N   G E R M A N Y

  [A composite photo with Hitler before a presumably Jewish court]

  JEWS OF ALL THE WORLD UNITE

  BOYCOTT OF GERMAN GOODS

  MASS DEMONSTRATIONS

  "Daily Express" Special Political Correspondent.

  A strange and unforeseen sequel has emerged from the stories of
  German Jew-baiting.

  The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
  an economic and financial war on Germany.

  Hitherto the cry has gone up: "Germany is persecuting the Jews."
  If the present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be:
  "The Jews are persecuting Germany."

    All Israel is rising in wrath against the Nazi onslaught on
    the Jews. Adolf Hitler, swept into power by an appeal of
    elemental patriotism, is making history of a kind he least
    expected. Thinking to unite only the German nation to race
    consciousness, he has roused the whole Jewish people to
    national renascence.

  The appearance of the Swastika symbol of a new Germany has
  called forth the Lion of Judah, the old battle symbol of
  Jewish defiance.

  Fourteen million Jews, dispersed throughout the world, have
  banded together as one man to declare war on the German
  persecutors of their co-religionists. Sectional differences
  and antagonisms

  [strip-shaped drawing with alternating swastikas and lions]

  have been submerged in one common aim - to stand by the
  600,000 Jews of Germany who are terrorised by Hitlerite
  anti-Semitism and to compel Fascist Germany to end its
  campaign of violence and suppression directed against its
  Jewish minority.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  P l a n s   F o r   A c t i o n   M a t u r i n g

                      I n   E u r o p e   A n d   A m e r i c a
--------------------------------------------------------------------

  World Jewry has made up its mind not to rest quiescent in
  face of this revival of medieval Jew-baiting.

  Germany may be called on to pay a heavy price for Hitler's
  antagonism to the Jews. She is faced with an international
  boycott in commerce, finance, and industry.

  The Jewish merchant prince is leaving his counting-house,
  the banker his board-room, the shopkeeper his store, and
  the pedlar his humble barrow, to join together in what has
  become a holy war to combat the Hitlerite enemies of the Jew.

  Plans for concerted Jewish action are being matured in Europe
  and America to strike back in reprisal at Hitlerite Germany.

  In London, New York, Paris, and Warsaw Jewish merchants are
  waiting for a commercial crusade.

  Resolutions are being taken throughout the Jewish business

--------------------------------------------------------------------
  B R I T I S H   J E W S   P R O T E S T
        A T   N A Z I   T A C T I C S

  MERCHANTS AND FINANCIERS RALLY TO MOVEMENT

  GERMAN LINERS AFFECTED?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

  world to sever trade relations with Germany.

  Large numbers of merchants in London have resolved to stop
  buying German goods, even at the cost of suffering heavy loss.

  A meeting of the Jewish textile trade in London has been called
  for Monday to consider the situation and to determine what steps
  should be taken.

  Germany is a heavy borrower in foreign money markets, where
  Jewish influence is considerable. Continued anti-Semitism in
  Germany is likely to react seriously against her. A move is on
  foot on the part of Jewish financiers to exert pressure to force
  anti-Jewish action to stop.

  The Organisation of Jewish Youth in Britain are organizing
  demonstrations in London and the provinces during the weekend.

  The Board of Deputies of British Jews, representing the entire
  Jewish community of Great Britain, are meeting in special
  session on Sunday to discuss the German situation, and to decide
  on what action should be taken to counteract the attacks on
  their German fellow-Jews.

  World-wide preparations are being made to organise demonstrations
  of protest.

  EMBARGO IN POLAND

  A concerted boycott by Jewish buyers is likely to involve grave
  damage to the German export trade. Jewish merchants all over the
  world are large buyers of German manufactured goods, chiefly
  cotton goods, silks, toys, electrical fittings, and furniture.

  In Poland, the trade embargo on Germany is already in operation.
  In France, a proposed ban on German imports is being widely
  canvassed in Jewish circles.

  German Transatlantic shipping traffic is likewise threatened.
  The Bremen and the Europa, the German crack liners, may suffer
  heavily from a Jewish anti-German boycott. Jewish trans-ocean
  travellers form an important part of the patrons of these liners
  because of their extensive part in international trade. The loss
  of their patronage would be a heavy blow to Germany's Atlantic
  trade.

  In New York yesterday 10,000 Jewish ex-soldiers marched to the
  City Hall to hold a protest demonstration.

  Large crowds watched the men, some of whom wore old British
  uniforms, petition the mayor to support them in a boycott of
  German goods.

  Another petition was handed in at the British Consulate-General
  requesting that Palestine should receive refugees from Germany
  without restriction.

  Members of the American House of Representatives are introducing
  resolutions protesting against the anti-Jewish excesses in
  Germany. The American trade unions, representing 3,000,000
  workers, have also decided to join in the protest.

  A rabbinical decree in New York has made the next Monday a day
  of fasting and prayer over the Hitler campaign.

  Fasting will begin on Sunday at sunset and finish at sunset on
  Monday.

  All Jewish shops in New York will be closed on Monday during a
  parade.

  Apart from a monster meeting in Madison-square Garden, meetings
  are to be held in 300 American cities.

  Madison-square Garden will see the remarkable sight of Bishop
  Manning speaking from a Jewish platform appealing for an end of
  the Hitler "terror."

  DAY OF SERMONS

  It had been arranged to charge a shilling admission and 5 s.
  for box seats, but a public-spirited Jew, Frank Cohen, an
  insurance broker, gove [sic] a personal cheque for L 1,000 to
  cover all expenses, so admission will be free.

  Every rabbi in the city of New York has been placed under a
  sacred obligation by rabbinical decree to devote Saturday's
  sermon to the plight of Jews in Germany.

  Representative Jewish organisations in the European capitals
  are understood to be making representations to their various
  Governments to use influence with the Hitler Cabinet to induce
  it to call a halt in the oppression of the German Jews.

  The old and reunited people of Israel are rising with new
  and modern weapons to fight their age-old battle with their
  persecutors.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 18:22:40 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>Philip Mathews said:
> > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!

> > Philip Mathews
> > ~~~~~~~

Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family and
I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
alt.revisionism.

Subject:
                         NEW TELEPHONE NUMBERS FOR THE NAZI PIG
                         KADACH
                   Date:
                         1999/08/08
                   Author:
                         nazihunter 
                           Posting History

                    FRESH NUMBERS TO CONTACT THE NAZI PIG KADACH AND HIS
                    FAMILY.
                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL AND TELL THEM WHAT A SCUMBAG ED IS?

                    Ed Kadach
                    XXX St NW XXXX
                    Edmonton, AB T6H 2Z7 Phone: 780-XXX-XXXXX, : 780-XXX-XXXX

>I said:
>Willie, will you kindly unsubscribe this stupid bastard from off
>of this list? This psycho sounds like Jack the Ripper. Look at the threats
>they're making to Ed Kadach. For now, this pig slime hides behind the laws
>his ilk helped put into place in Canada, but I'm sure there will be more
>Eric's out there taking care of things their own way. The resistance is
>growing and underground, and it's only a matter of time before the evil
>empire goes down.
>~~~~~~~
>Mathews said:
>I've made no threats to Ed. He understands the reference.

Oh indeed I do and it has been duly noted as JM states.

>
>also:
>
>I made no threat. And the laws referred to are slander and libel, laws
>which all civilized nations have in one form or another. This has
>nothing to do with misguided hate laws. I suspect Ms. Zimmerman's
>actual problem rests in having her erroneous opinions exposed. So much
>for her supposed belief in free speech!
>~~~~~~~
>Me: You did too make a threat. Everyone saw it, and by now, the resistance
>has it.
>JM

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] "German Jew Baiting"/Herbie
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:33:25 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Nizkor liars said:
"A strange and unfortunate sequel has emerged from the stories of German
Jew-baiting. "The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
an economic and financial war on Germany.
"Hirtherto the cry has gone up: 'Germany is persecuting the Jews.' If the
present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be: 'The Jews are
persecuting Germany.'
~~~~~~~
Herb:
Prophetic, weren't they, Michael? I am so glad that you brought it up!
Here's the whole article, as found at
http://www.nizkor.org/features/qar/qar11.html

Daily Express. London, March 24, 1933, pp. 1-2.

   J U D E A   D E C L A R E S   W A R   O N   G E R M A N Y

   [A composite photo with Hitler before a presumably Jewish court]

   JEWS OF ALL THE WORLD UNITE

   BOYCOTT OF GERMAN GOODS

   MASS DEMONSTRATIONS

   "Daily Express" Special Political Correspondent.

   A strange and unforeseen sequel has emerged from the stories of
   German Jew-baiting.

   The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare
   an economic and financial war on Germany.

   Hitherto the cry has gone up: "Germany is persecuting the Jews."
   If the present plans are carried out, the Hitlerite cry will be:
   "The Jews are persecuting Germany."
~~~~~~~
Me: As usual, this is what Jews do. They threaten with economic boycotts to
get their little hissy fits put into place. Then they claim they were, are,
or will be persecuted. They make the other guy the aggressor while it is
themselves. An interesting fact brought out by Hans Schmidt who served in
the German Waffen SS was that Jewish businesses were still in the German
phone books in 1941. So much for "German" persecution. Herbie, by the way,
is just a slug posing as a "misled" Gentile boy. He's just another Zionist.
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 19:26:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>
>Philip Mathews

Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.

>> Forum: alt.revisionism
                         >> Thread: GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
                           >> Message 1176 of 1282


                   Subject:
                          GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
                   Date:
                          1998/09/10
                   Author:
                          NAZIHUNTER 
                            Posting History

                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL TO THE ANTI-SEMITIC PIG ED KADACH?

                    ED KADACH
                    XXXX-XXX ST NW
                    EDMONTON, ALBERTA
                    T6H 2Z7


                    403-XXX-XXXXX


                    IF HE IS NOT HOME, LET HIS WIFE KNOW WHAT A PIECE OF WORK
                    HER HUSBAND IS.

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 01:49:34 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

20 million or 60 million , the poing be does it really matter
Herb ? Jews murdered more Christians than the Nazi's murdered
Jews and that was the point I was making.

Death is wrong it is always bad no matter who is killed! But I
choose life and it is not time to move away from the past and
into the now. Who is stealing from the sick and elderly today
who creates intrest and takes for the poor what little they have
so that they are totally dependent upon the socialist goverment?

I am not a Nazi, I have never hurt or mistreated anyone and I
refuse to take the blame for Nazi's because I am Christian Identity
just as I have never owned slaves and refuse white guilt!

If someone wants to call me what ever they will as long as they
can prove it in a court of law that is their choice in life.
I am free to think in American and express my opinions. I can legally

Some people are upset because I believe and I can prove I am an
Israelite. I can not only prove it by race, but by blood and name
as well! I can also LOVE or HATE and BELIEVE as I wish about anything
this is still American and I still have that right.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:41:20 -0500
From: "Teacher of YHVH" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
Organization: Christian Soldiers
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

I just subscribed to it.  Thanks, I was really getting tired of the other
list.
Sherry

----- Original Message -----
From: Charles 
To: <13texan@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 1:09 PM
Subject: [13texan] A new list

> I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>
> anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
> will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
> anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
> opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
> vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>
> Security:
>
> No arcives will be made public!
> No shared files directoty!
> No Public files directory!
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
> Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
> Charles
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:47:39 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:27:54 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-649-david_223 Wed Sep 01 12:27:37 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailB996C881013ED82197F0CF8A29921D7E199; Wed Sep 01 12:27:37 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
>20:27:31 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 18037 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 19:27:30 -0000
>Received: from mail2.bna.bellsouth.net (205.152.80.14) by qg.egroups.com
>with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 19:27:30 -0000
>Received: from default (host-209-214-40-81.cha.bellsouth.net
>[209.214.40.81]) by mail2.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.3a/8.9.3) with SMTP id
>PAA23892 for <13texan@egroups.com>; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:18:40 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <37CD7E39.3186@bellsouth.net>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>References: <6c093215.24fecde4@aol.com>
>
>Michael,
>
>Do like me and just don't respond to Philip. It is clear to
>see that, it does not matter to him how many whites or Christians
>died at the hands of the jews in past or present history for to
>him anyone other that a jew is just goy [cattle]. He can't defend
>the jew for his evil acts, can't prove any jews are related to
>Israel of the bible or that the jews don't control world banks
>and world goverments.
>
>We on the other hand know these facts because they are written and
>recorded in history books printed by the jews themseleves. I like
>only one thing about jews, that being they have been unable to
>hide any of the thing they have done in all history they like to
>recordes it so very well for us to read as though they are proud
>of it and fly it in our faces because the goy sleep for now.

Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
the mind of Christ as we do.

Any posts with Herb Gorman or philnancy should be deleted
immediately....it's just Jewish trash...there is nothing in there to help a
Christian; and nothing in there that praises the name of Jesus....so why
open it??

Just my 2 cents worth.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:53:52 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Charles 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:21:19 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-654-david_223=hotmail.com@returns.egroups.com Wed Sep
>1 14:25:51 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 1999
>22:20:59 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 1149 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 21:20:57 -0000
>Received: from mail0.bna.bellsouth.net (205.152.80.12) by qh.egroups.com
>with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 21:20:57 -0000
>Received: from default (host-209-214-40-79.cha.bellsouth.net
>[209.214.40.79]) by mail0.bna.bellsouth.net (3.3.3a/8.9.3) with SMTP id
>RAA06100 for <13texan@egroups.com>; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:23 -0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <37CD98CF.7B@bellsouth.net>
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
>References: 
>
>BTW...
>
>Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
>of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
>gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
>
>Charles

Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated that
many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish lies....It
would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number of
bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't add
up.

David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:04:14 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] "Anti-Shemitic"
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:14:14 PDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-658-david_223 Wed Sep 01 16:15:05 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
>MHotMailB996FE66010DD820F39ECF8A2992353912; Wed Sep 01 16:15:05 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 02 Sep 1999
>00:14:17 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
>Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-13texan@egroups.com
>Received: (qmail 5823 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 23:14:15 -0000
>Received: from f325.hotmail.com (HELO hotmail.com) (207.82.251.213) by
>qg.egroups.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 23:14:15 -0000
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>Message-ID: <19990901231415.90909.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Received: from 208.25.190.147 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Sep
>1999 16:14:14 PDT
>X-Originating-IP: [208.25.190.147]
>
>Phil Mathews wrote:
>
>Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
>are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
>Philip Mathews
>~~~~~~~
>Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list "anti-'Semitic,"
>and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic blood
>in him. In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
>makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the Germanus, or
>germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after Assyrian
>captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans. That means the
>Jews'
>war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic, and God's curse
>of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites. It's Shemite
>anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they change
>history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like nosey
>little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little perverts.
>JM

Very true, JM.....very true....we are the semites, not the Jews....they are
anti-Christ; contrary to all men, as the apostle Paul stated....they want to
claim our birthright, as Esau wanted Jacob's birthright, and as Satan wanted
Adam's birthright....but they can't have it.
The Anglo-Saxon people are true Israel....Jews are our enemies; they hate
true Israel, and they hate the name of Jesus....and they would hang the
Blessed Savior from the cross again, if they only could.

And who but a pervert would state that it is ok to marry a 3 year old
girl?....only a perverted Satanic mind would state such a thing....and this
is mild in comparison to the other perverted things in their dirty talmud.

I think Phil was referring to me in the statement he made about Christ
disavowing me....well, I take that as a badge of honor....for the servant is
not above his Master...and because they hate Jesus; they should hate us
also.

Hail Jesus' Victory
David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE
     PLEASE READ.
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:14:05 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

WILLIE,
      Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see these
people causing the problems removed. You are I know, well versed in the
word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we as
the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who would
detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.

Your Brother,
Ramon Sparks

At 09:35 PM 8/30/99 -0500, you wrote:
>We would appriciate it if you did, Willie.
>Sherry & Oscar
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Ed Kadach 
>To: <13texan@egroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 8:26 PM
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
>
>
>> At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>> >You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>> >
>> >Philip Mathews
>>
>>
>>
>> Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.
>>
>>
>> >> Forum: alt.revisionism
>>                          >> Thread: GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
>>                            >> Message 1176 of 1282
>>
>>
>>                    Subject:
>>                           GIVE ED KADACH A CALL
>>                    Date:
>>                           1998/09/10
>>                    Author:
>>                           NAZIHUNTER 
>>                             Posting History
>>
>>
>>                     WHY NOT GIVE A CALL TO THE ANTI-SEMITIC PIG ED KADACH?
>>
>>                     ED KADACH
>>                     XXXX-XXX ST NW
>>                     EDMONTON, ALBERTA
>>                     T6H 2Z7
>>
>>
>>                     403-XXX-XXXXX
>>
>>
>>                     IF HE IS NOT HOME, LET HIS WIFE KNOW WHAT A PIECE OF
>WORK
>>                     HER HUSBAND IS.
>>
>>
>> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
>> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
>> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
>> ---Schopenhauer
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
>> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Institut Fuer Zeitgeschicthe On Nazi Gass
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:27:20 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=673
> In a message dated 9/1/99 2:21:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> <<  Auschwitz-Birkenau had 46 retorts when
>  in full operation.  Try the math with that data!
>   >>
> I won't have to try the math for the simple fact that the coal was
not
> availabe for the burns and nor was the rail system always intact for
the
> Barbecuing meat and fuel. highly impossible.

If you wish to deal in simple facts, you should start with facts. Coal
was not used as the fuel for the ovens. The rail lines were intact in
the areas of the death camps right up until the end of the war,
servicing camps which had been located near major rail spurs. The
transport records are extant recording the shipment of Jews from all
over Europe to the various camps.

Now try your math problem again.

The Jews have in my life time
> tried to stroke the pity pockets of the masses and it is about to
come to an
> abrupt halt.

False bravado and mindless antisemitism. In the end, that's what it
always comes down to with someone like you.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:33:01 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=679
> BTW...
>
> Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
> of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
> gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
>
> Charles

You're comparing apple and oranges. Your scenario is for a commercial
crematory, incinerating a single body at a time, usually with coffin,
and usually incinerating the body down to a fine white ash suitable for
presentation to family. That hardly compares to the multiple and
continuous feeding system utilized by the Nazis, where coffins were not
used and the comingling of ashes was hardly a concern. The fuel source
is immaterial.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:35:06 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=681
> Charles,
>      As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to
dust. No
> one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
> Michael Snead

Thank you for more evidence of your hateful antisemitsm. I note that
the "Christians" in the group say nothing about your decidedly
anti-Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: 50 Jews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 05:36:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=682
> Michael Snead said:
> Charles,
>       As we all knew it was impossible to have torched the Jews to
dust. No
> one likes the smell of burning dung anyway.
> Michael Snead
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Michael, have you heard how you put 50 Jews in a Volkswagon? You
put
> them in the ashtray.
>
> JM

Another fine example of Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:18:02 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=683
> Phil Mathews wrote:
>
> Your assumption is ignorant and antisemitic. I suspect He thinks you
> are an ass. I'm sure He disavows your non Christian values.
>
> Philip Mathews
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: This is hilarious. Philip calls another on this list
"anti-'Semitic,"
> and yet I doubt Philip is a true Shemite with little if any Shemitic
blood
> in him.

Which is wholly irrelevant. That you think this is hilarious is
interesting.

In fact, I probably have more Shemitic blood than Philip, so that
> makes him "anti-Shemitic" because Arsareth, or Germany, is the
Germanus, or
> germ, or core of the wheat of where ancient Israel landed after
Assyrian
> captivity and blended in with the indigneous Europeans.

More irrelevancies.  Do you always seek to justify antisemitism with
such nonsense?

 That means the Jews'
> war against Germany during WWI and WWII were anti-Shemitic,

There was no Jewish war against Germany. Do you really expect people to
accept such nonsense? Do you know what war is?

 and God's curse
> of natural law retribution is upon the Jews, or the Edomites.

Ah, now you're blaming God for the Holocaust?

It's Shemite
> anyway, not Semite, as the Yids pronounce stuff. Just like they
change
> history, and dictionaries, and control so much of everything like
nosey
> little useless bastards, they change languages, just like little
perverts.

And the antisemite emerges in full flower, for all to see. Nice
Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:20:32 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=684
> I said:
>
> The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias
> state, "Edom is in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no
> link to this scripture. It was also Rabbi Stephen Wise who said that
> Communism is Jewish. Of course, telling the truth is hate, but truth
is
> always hate to those who hate the truth.
> ~~~~~~~
> Philip Mathews:
> I don't suppose you have a citation for Rabbi Wise making that
> statement? And saying hateful things about Jews has nothing to do with
> truth.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which
says that
> "Edom is modern Jewry?"

It's not my encyclopedia.

 Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
> your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and
Judaism
> were the same, so go do your own research for once.
> JM

I note you've avoided anwering the question. Do you have a citation for
Rabbi Wise saying what you allege, or have you simply made it up and
your mindless desire to smear Jews.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] The List
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:32:15 -0700
From: "Andy" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to be
taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
Vaya Con Dios, Andy

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:43:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=687
> Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
> worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
fostering of
> hate and intolerance.
>
> Philip Mathews
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I think this is fun with little Philip.

I'll bet you do. Hateful emoting seems to be your hobby.

 He has been squirming like a
> little worm ever since he threatened Ed Kadach and said his wife
would "get
> ripped."

You could have worked in the Nazi propoganda department.

>     Little Philip talks about my Aryan brothers and sisters as
fostering
> "hate and intolerance."

The evidence for you is manifest and on display almost daily.

 Now, let's take the first part, "hate." Telling the
> truth to pore little Philip is "hate," unless he's saying that the
Germans
> gassed 6 million of his brethren.

Hateful expressions don't have to be false, but often are with
antisemites, since the true facts don't offer enough opportunity to
vent the hatred.

To say it didn't happened is also "denial"
> as if it was ever a fact to begin with.

To deny an established fact of history is denial. Nothing difficult
there.

"Intolerance" is another little gem
> of the Jew. While we are to "resist" the devil and flee from him,
little
> Philip tells us to "tolerate."

I merely suggest you demonstrate some of the religious principles you
claim to follow.

 But to "tolerate" means to let all kinds of
> bad things in which is the point of little Philip's diatribe.

A rather strange interpretation. You are confusing the judgment to be
made about individuals based upon their character and conduct with the
mindless condemnation of entire groups, as if entire groups of people
manifest "bad things" merely because of an accident of birth or
religion or ethnicity. Most people learn this distinction in grade
school, certainly in Sunday School.

 We are to
> "tolerate" homosexuals which the Jew promotes as normal because so
many of
> them are sexual deviants themselves.

You are flying off on a tangent which hasn't been mentioned. I wonder
why?

 Their own Talmud says it's okay to have
> sex with a 3-year-old child.

A blatant and ignorant mis-characterization. Typical.

 Philip would regard that as "tolerance," of
> course, because he denies it's in the Talmud although so many of us
here
> have read that degenerate filth for ourselves.

You would do well to try to do a better job of defining your own
bizarre brand of situational ethics rather than trying to speak for me.
Hating people because they are Jews, and retailing well known lies
about them is intolerant and against the any sane understanding of
Christian values. Your need to wander of into other subjects reveals
the bankruptcy of your position.

>     It's no where in scripture anywhere to tolerate, and it is the
> anti-thesis of what Christ and St. Paul taught to "resist."

Hating people because of what they are instead of what they do as
individuals is not "resisting".

 So, the
> resistance is right, and they're more right for going underground and
doing
> their work which bothers little Philip that such a thing really
exists. So,
> in desperation, the Jew cries for all kinds of "hate" crimes
legislation as
> if that will do a thing to stop the underground from doing their work
like
> all of the Eric's out there.

They are right to go underground if their objective is to hurt people
or deprive them of their rights based on some racist theory which
mainstream culture rightfully finds repugnant.

>     One last point: "political correctness" and "tolerance" are the
> opposites of each other. One cannot preach "political correctness"
and
> "tolerance" in the same breath because they are diametrically opposed
to one
> another. To demand "political correctness" is simply not "tolerant"
of
> little Philip. Boo-Hoo.

Your inability to discuss an issue without confusing concepts and
venting about unrelated subjects is revealing. Political correctness
and antisemitism are two different things. You've done nothing but
confirm your antisemitism and demonstrate a typically mechanical
response to the discussion. Hating Jews because they are Jews is wrong,
and violates Christian beliefs and Humanist traditions. You should be
more faithful to your faith.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:57:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ed Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >Philip Mathews said:
> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>
> > > Philip Mathews
> > > ~~~~~~~
>
> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
and
> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
> alt.revisionism.


Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I roundly
condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop such
activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:00:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=699
> At 09:25 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> Perhaps you had this one in mind when you mentioned my wife.
>
>
Already addressed in earlier post.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:05:08 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=703

> >BTW...
> >
> >Even in these days the fastest they can cremate a body
> >of a weight if 140 lbs, is 30 min at 2,000 degrese using
> >gass with 3 burners acording to "From Death To Dust"
> >
> >Charles
>
> Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated
that
> many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish
lies....It
> would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number
of
> bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
> nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't
add
> up.

And your denial is based on what, your simple denial? Why don't you
show us the math which doesn't add up? I think I know why.

Philip Mathews

>
> David
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 07:08:24 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon Sparks wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=705
> WILLIE,
>       Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see
these
> people causing the problems removed.

I see, disagreeing with your unsupported pronouncements on Jews and the
history of the Holocaust is a problem, eh.

You are I know, well versed in the
> word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
> mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we
as
> the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who
would
> detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.

Your own unwillingness to defend you views is the major hinderance your
movement faces.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:54:34 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy wrote:
>
> When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
> Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
> understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
> Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to be
> taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
> Vaya Con Dios, Andy

  Works for me!!!!

--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:03:47 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
them before me."

nuff said!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:24:23 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Willie,

I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
information about your subscribers from what I have read.

I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
and the one who made it should be removed from the list.

Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
untill I hear something from you on this matter.

BTW this message is being send both public and private.

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:25:37 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SWINE:
       No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other hand
refute truth . The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
SWINE... The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
messenger. We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
and you detract from the purpose we have been given. WE CHOOSE to not allow
you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established as
allowing you to succeed.

Ramon

At 07:08 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon Sparks wrote:
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=705
>> WILLIE,
>>       Brother I would like to add my name to the list wishing to see
>these
>> people causing the problems removed.
>
>
>I see, disagreeing with your unsupported pronouncements on Jews and the
>history of the Holocaust is a problem, eh.
>
>
>You are I know, well versed in the
>> word of YHVH ... may I as your brother remind you that we are told to"
>> mark" those that cause division and seperate from them... Willie , we
>as
>> the people of YHVH have a job to do... we should not allow those who
>would
>> detract us from our mission to continue to be a hinderence.
>
>Your own unwillingness to defend you views is the major hinderance your
>movement faces.
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
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>
>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:31:27 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
about CI related topics can send me email to
my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
this over to a new list. I will set one up
if others are interested and we will weed out
the ones who cause trouble via members vote.

Charles
--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:35:27 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> them before me."
>
> nuff said!

Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their belonging
to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 12:40:26 -0500
From: Willie Martin 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: dogpatch@bellsouth.net
CC: 13texan@egroups.com

    Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
to do anything to delete it or anything else.

    I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get some
answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
repspond. I don't know what else to do.

    You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even access.
I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so mad
without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that I
can do about it.

    As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several have
dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

    Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite tribes.

    Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
what you are saying about personal information.

    It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.

    If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because like
I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members list,
or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.

    I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do anything
about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you. The
only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people some
information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics when
they begin.

       I remain Sincerely yours, In His Service, Willie Martin

Charles wrote:

> Willie,
>
> I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
> and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
> it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
> information about your subscribers from what I have read.
>
> I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
> now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
> more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
> and the one who made it should be removed from the list.
>
> Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
> untill I hear something from you on this matter.
>
> BTW this message is being send both public and private.
>
> Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:41:00 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> SWINE:
>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
hand
> refute truth .

Accept that you are unable to show that.

 >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> SWINE...

The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
scripture for their own ends.

 The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
> messenger.

But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?

 We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\

You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and because
you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is not
a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
any of God's other creatures.

 WE CHOOSE to not allow
> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established
as
> allowing you to succeed.

I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate you
generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:45:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=721
> Willie,
>
> I am CI and I don't care who or how many or what ever about jews
> and nazi's.... Can we move along to a new topic this one has ran
> it corse and your trouble makers I see have been posting personal
> information about your subscribers from what I have read.

>
> I have been exchanging personal email with you for over two years
> now and I have no intentions of stopping, but You need to have a
> more secure egroups list. Personal attacks should be edited out
> and the one who made it should be removed from the list.

What about your personal attacks, and hateful words? Are you immune, or
just blind to your own unChristian actions?

>
> Please do something about this soon.... I am stopping my mail
> untill I hear something from you on this matter.

This intolerance for other views is one reason why the views you
express will never enjoy a wider currency than your small group. The
lack of strength in your own convictions are displayed by your desire
to muzzle all who disagree with you.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] A new list
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:09:08 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.

anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.

Security:

No arcives will be made public!
No shared files directoty!
No Public files directory!

Community email addresses:
Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com

Charles

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "German Jew Baiting"/Herbie
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:18:35 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman wrote:

> Nizkor liars said:

No, that is what the story on the front page of the Daily Express said. Please
try to get the attributions right, Ms. Zimmerman.

> Me: As usual, this is what Jews do. They threaten with economic boycotts to
> get their little hissy fits put into place. Then they claim they were, are,
> or will be persecuted.

It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government was *not*
persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?

That the raids on synagogues prior to the call for an economic response were not
"persecution?"

That the disenfranchisement of Jewish citizens prior to the call for an economic
response was not "persecution?"

What an interesting viewpoint...

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:20:03 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Willie Martin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=726
>     Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
> had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
> EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
> to do anything to delete it or anything else.
>
>     I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get
some
> answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
> subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
> repspond. I don't know what else to do.
>
>     You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even
access.
> I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so
mad
> without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
> sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that
I
> can do about it.

I think the more important question is why someone should be removed
from this list just because some members do not like to have their view
and prejudices challenged?  The description for this group is history
discussion. I've been trying to discuss history, but whenever the
subject gets beyond glib antisemitic allegations, people go into attack
mode and wish only to disparage Jews.

>
>     As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
> try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
> and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several
have
> dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

And are you as sensitive to having your views discussed as so many of
the other list members?  I am frankly amazed at the inability and
unwillingness of list participants to defend their views. The ultimate
defense, usually reached very quickly, is to blame Jews for everthing,
accuse an opponent of being Jewish and concluding from that assumption
in antisemitic fashion that that makes their views somehow irrelevant.
These same folks will deny their antisemitsm (except for a few) or that
they are hate filled in their beliefs. What Christian faith teaches
such hate?

>
>     Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
> do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
> Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite
tribes.
>
>     Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
> the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
> what you are saying about personal information.
>
>     It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
> at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.
>
>     If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
> started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because
like
> I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members
list,
> or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
> want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.
>
>     I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do
anything
> about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
> controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
> destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you.
The
> only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people
some
> information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
> recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
> enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
> therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics
when
> they begin.

I'm sure there must be a technical reason for this. I've never heard of
an email list being taken over. I hope it gets solved soon, and I hope
that you will opt for the free expression of ideas which are on topic
for this group.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:26:06 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:

> 20 million or 60 million , the poing be does it really matter
> Herb ? Jews murdered more Christians than the Nazi's murdered
> Jews and that was the point I was making.

Accuracy is important, particularly during this sort of acrimonious
discussion. It is easy to throw numbers around, and easier still if you
don't have to back up your claims with documentation.

I understand your point, and I agree with you - murder is murder. I would
not dream of trivializing the Stalinist terror any more than I would
trivialize the Holocaust. The difference, however, is that very few people
devote much time to claiming that Stalin did *not* cause the death of
millions, while a cohesive movement to deny the Nazi murder of Jews
obviously exists.

> Death is wrong it is always bad no matter who is killed! But I
> choose life and it is not time to move away from the past and
> into the now. Who is stealing from the sick and elderly today
> who creates intrest and takes for the poor what little they have
> so that they are totally dependent upon the socialist goverment?

That would be an intelligent thing to do, were it not for the presence of
people who appear to have devoted themselves to the hatred of Jews, and the
denial of the murders of the Jews. I do not believe that we should simply
ignore such moral bankruptcy when we observe it within our community. I
believe we should stand up and confront hatred wherever it may be found.

> I am not a Nazi, I have never hurt or mistreated anyone and I
> refuse to take the blame for Nazi's because I am Christian Identity
> just as I have never owned slaves and refuse white guilt!

I don't recall calling you a Nazi. Christian Identity, however, is openly
and happily in bed with modern nazis, and if you are not aware of this,
perhaps you should take a close look at such allegations, and the
associations commonly found among Identity leaders.

> If someone wants to call me what ever they will as long as they
> can prove it in a court of law that is their choice in life.
> I am free to think in American and express my opinions. I can legally

Of course you are free to express yourself - I would not argue that point at
all, beyond some obvious comments about libel, for instance, or inciting to
violence - that is, laws restricting speech which have been with us for
centuries.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:28:46 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
> discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
> to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
> less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
> our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
> the mind of Christ as we do.

Interesting - the "Group information" section says of this group:

"A History Discussion Group" ... which is why it seems strange that David does
not want to discuss history. I didn't see anything about religion in the
description, just history.

Curious.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 14:32:47 -0400
From: Charles 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: thelostsheep@onelist.com, 13texan@egroups.com

This will be my last message posted the this list
everyone who enjoys fellowship with willie can
subscribe onto the new list where he can have
control thelostsheep@onelist.com

I have unsubscribed to this list and will no longer
be getting mail from it.

May God Bless and Keep His Sheep Untill We Meet in His Kingdom

Charles
--
ICQ # 8133109
http://lostsheep.homepage.com

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:33:09 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Exactly, Charles....there is no way the Germans could have cremated that
> many bodies, even with today's technology....just more Jewish lies....It
> would have taken something like 35 years to have cremated the number of
> bodies the Jews claim were victims of the Third Reich....what utter
> nonsense!...all we have to do, is to do the math....the figures don't add
> up.

David, would you be kind enough to tell us how you determined that it would
take 35 years? I'd really like to see your source for this information.

It seems to me that modern technology has no bearing at all upon what the
Nazis did - modern technology is not designed to cremate thousands per day,
it's designed to cremate one body at a time. No comparison.

For some accurate data, consider
http://www3.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz/crematoria/furnace-capacity-analysis.html

"In 1965, Hydrokop, a chemical mining enterprise based in Krakow, was
commissioned by the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum to carry out geological
tests at Birkenau aimed at determining the locations of incineration pits and
pyres. Specialists of Hydrokop bored 303 holes up to 3 m deep. Traces of human
ashes, bones, and hair turned up in 42 sites. Documentation of all the holes
and the diagrams of their distribution are preserved in the Conservation
Department of the Museum." (Franciszek Piper, Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death
Camp, p. 179n).

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Anti-Shemitic"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:34:34 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> And who but a pervert would state that it is ok to marry a 3 year old
> girl?....only a perverted Satanic mind would state such a thing....and this
> is mild in comparison to the other perverted things in their dirty talmud.

I can not find anything in Talmud that states that it is ok to marry a 3 year
old girl. Can you tell me exactly where to find this statement, David?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 17:13:30 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy,
    You are right. To delete them is the right thing to do. Even the Word
says not to cast your pearls before the swine....I would think that even
meant koshered swine.   Here is a little story that I want to share with
everyone on the list. Years ago I worked on some sound stages in  Hollywood
and two of my favorite sets was The Bionic Woman and the Hart to Hart sets.
As a young carpenter and eager to learn as much as possible I would ask a lot
of questions. I was telling the superintendent one day that after I finished
with the apprentice program I would like to go to Cal State Fullerton to
become a screen writer. As we spoke this elderly gentleman inched over to
where we were talking and it was obvious that he was eaves dropping.
    The boss and I were amused at this obvious action so  being as forward as
I am included him in the conversation. He revealed to us that he was one of
the writers and that he was by that day to observe. While we spoke he
informed us that he was Jewish and the boss who was from Australia shared
that with the old man and the old man looked at me and said," Where in the
south are you from?" (the accent gave it away) and I said," West
Virginia."...Jokingly he stepped back and said," You aren't of German decent
are you?" We all began to laugh. I informed him that I was of English decent
and we continued to speak for a couple more hours.
    When we wrapped up this pleasant little chat he patted me on the back and
said "Young man let me give you some advice. My father told me many years
ago,' son don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story."  We all
laughed as he walked away and we went back to work.
    Until this year when I read David Duke's book My Awakening did that old
man's statement hit me hard. It is funny but can you imagine the lives that
are ruined because of the lies of the Jewish controlled  media outlets? The
truths that are hidden by these trained deception artists?  I want to
apologize to the entire group for allowing the two manipulative snakes have
so much control. I shall continue to read and comment only on the things
pertaining to this list.
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:11:41 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=736
> Andy,
>     You are right. To delete them is the right thing to do. Even the
Word
> says not to cast your pearls before the swine....I would think that
even
> meant koshered swine.   Here is a little story that I want to share
with
> everyone on the list. Years ago I worked on some sound stages in
Hollywood
> and two of my favorite sets was The Bionic Woman and the Hart to Hart
sets.
> As a young carpenter and eager to learn as much as possible I would
ask a lot
> of questions. I was telling the superintendent one day that after I
finished
> with the apprentice program I would like to go to Cal State Fullerton
to
> become a screen writer. As we spoke this elderly gentleman inched
over to
> where we were talking and it was obvious that he was eaves dropping.
>     The boss and I were amused at this obvious action so  being as
forward as
> I am included him in the conversation. He revealed to us that he was
one of
> the writers and that he was by that day to observe. While we spoke he
> informed us that he was Jewish and the boss who was from Australia
shared
> that with the old man and the old man looked at me and said," Where
in the
> south are you from?" (the accent gave it away) and I said," West
> Virginia."...Jokingly he stepped back and said," You aren't of German
decent
> are you?" We all began to laugh. I informed him that I was of English
decent
> and we continued to speak for a couple more hours.
>     When we wrapped up this pleasant little chat he patted me on the
back and
> said "Young man let me give you some advice. My father told me many
years
> ago,' son don't let the truth stand in the way of a good story."  We
all
> laughed as he walked away and we went back to work.
>     Until this year when I read David Duke's book My Awakening did
that old
> man's statement hit me hard. It is funny but can you imagine the
lives that
> are ruined because of the lies of the Jewish controlled  media
outlets?

Oh, please, you can't be this thick! You are aware of the difference
between fiction and nonfiction writing.  The writer's innocuous
statement referred to writing fiction for the screen. And you and your
boss understood it perfectly, which is why you laughed. You knew he
wasn't referring to journalists making things up. That you feel the
need to smear Jews by so obviously distorting the man's meaning
probably results from the same animus which causes you to lie about
Jewish control of media outlets.

 The
> truths that are hidden by these trained deception artists?  I want to
> apologize to the entire group for allowing the two manipulative
snakes have
> so much control. I shall continue to read and comment only on the
things
> pertaining to this list.

The description of this list is the discussion of history, something
you are obviously loathe to do because we would then see who are the
deception artists.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Edom/Jews/Judah
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:15:34 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I had said:
The Encyclopedia Judaica as well as the Jewish Encyclopedias state, "Edom is
in modern Jewry." Therefore, Jews of today have no link to this scripture.
===================
Bill Hoyt said:
Let us assume for a moment that the quote is true.  If that is the case,
then the statement that "Paul wrote that the Jews lost their covenant with
God" would be shown to be false, since Paul wrote of the Jews in his day (of
whom he was one, of the tribe of Benjamin - Rom 11:1).  If they were truly
Edomites, then they never had a covenant to lose.
~~~~~~~
Me: Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.
Jew is slang for Judean. There were 12 tribes, unless one counts the sons of
Joseph as 2 tribes and comes up with 13. Therefore, Israel is not Judah
alone, but Judah is one of the tribes. Also, the Israelites were not Jews.
The Hebrews were not Jews. Abraham was not a Jew, but a Hebrew. After
Assyrian captivity, Israel went to Arsareth, from II Esdras 13. Arsareth is
Germany. Most Jews of today are of Khazarian origin, a Turkal-Mongol Asiatic
mix. They have nothing to do with Shem. They are called Azkenazi's who are
in the line of Azkenaz, or the line of Japeth, and are linked with Gog and
Gomer.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Convergence of Evidence: The Key to Historical Proof
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:24:15 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

An excerpt from a Skeptic Magazine Article: "Proving the Holocaust: The
Refutation of Revisionism & the Restoration of History,"

A Convergence of Evidence: The Key to Historical Proof

Within all of these fallacies of thinking about both evolution and the
Holocaust, there is an assumption by the creationists and the
revisionists that if they can just find one tiny crack in the structure
the entire edifice will come tumbling down. This is the fundamental flaw
in their reasoning. The Holocaust is not a single event. The Holocaust
was 10,000 events in 10,000 places, and is proved by 10,000 bits of data
that converge on one conclusion. Neither evolution nor the Holocaust can
be disproved by minor errors or inconsistencies here and there, for the
simple reason that they were never proved by these lone bits of data in
the first place. To understand why, we must consider the nature of proof
in the science of history. How do we know anything happened in the past?

   In 1840 the English philosopher of science, William Whewell,
published his classic work on The Philosophy of the Inductive Sciences,
in which he talked at length about inductions, or generalizations drawn
from specific facts. But to prove a theory one must have more than just
one generalization. And these multiple inductions must all point to a
definite conclusion, building upon one another independently but in
conjunction. Whewell said of these inductions that they "jumped
together" to establish the veracity of a theory. A fond coiner of words
(e.g., "scientist"), Whewell called this method of thinking a
consilience of inductions. "Accordingly the cases in which inductions
from classes of facts altogether different have thus jumped together,
belong only to the best established theories which the history of
science contains. And, as I shall have occasion to refer to this
particular feature in their evidence, I will take the liberty of
describing it by a particular phrase; and will term it the Consilience
of Inductions" (p. 230).

   A less cumbersome phrase might be a convergence of evidence.
Evolution, for example, is proved by the convergence of evidence from
geology, paleontology, botany, zoology, herpetology, entomology,
biogeography, anatomy, physiology, and comparative anatomy. No one piece
of evidence from these diverse fields says "evolution" on it. A fossil
is a snapshot. But a fossil in a geological bed, with other fossils of
the same and different species, compared to species in lower strata and
upper strata, contrasted to modern similar organisms, juxtaposed with
species in other parts of the world, past and present, and so on, turn
that snapshot into a motion picture. Each set of inductions from each
field jumps together to a grand conclusion--evolution. This is how
narrative history becomes scientific history.

   The process is no different in proving the Holocaust. How do we know
about the Holocaust? We have:

   1. Written documents--hundreds of thousands of letters, memos,
blueprints, orders, bills, speeches, articles, memoirs, and confessions.

   2. Eyewitness testimony--accounts from survivors, Kapos,
Sonderkommandos, SS guards, commandants, local townspeople, and even
upper-echelon Nazis who did not deny the Holocaust.

   3. Photographs--official military and press photographs, civilian
photographs, secret photographs taken by survivors, aerial photographs,
German and Allied film footage, etc.

   4. The camps themselves--many concentration camps, work camps, and
death camps are still extant in varying degrees of originality and
reconstruction.

   5. Negative evidence--if five to six million Jews were not killed,
where did all those people go?

A Case Study in Convergence

Let us examine how this works as a case study in history as a science.
We have an eyewitness account by a survivor who says he heard about
gassing Jews while he was at Auschwitz. The revisionist says that
survivors exaggerate and that their memories are unsound. Another
survivor tells another story different in details but with the core
similarity that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz. The revisionist claims
that rumors were floating throughout the camps and many survivors
incorporated them into their memories. An SS guard confesses after the
war that he actually saw people being gassed and cremated. The
revisionist claims that these confessions were forced out of the Nazis
by the Allies. But now a Sonderkommando--a Jew who helped the Nazis load
dead bodies out of the gas chambers and into the crematoria--says he not
only heard about it, and not only saw it happening, he actually
participated in the process. The revisionist explains this away by
saying that the Sonderkommando accounts make no sense-- their figures of
numbers of bodies are exaggerated and their dates are incorrect. What
about the camp commandant, who confessed after the war that he not only
heard, saw, and participated in the process, but that he orchestrated
it!? He was tortured, says the revisionist. But what about his
autobiography written after his trial, conviction, and sentencing to
death, when he had nothing to gain by lying? No one knows why people
confess to ridiculous crimes, explains the revisionist, but they do.

   No single testimony says "Holocaust" on it. But taking many together
the story begins to unfold. And now the revisionist's defense is
beginning to unravel. Instead of the historian having to present "just
one proof," the revisionist must now disprove five pieces of historical
data, with five different methods of disproof. But there is more. We
have the blueprints for both the gas chambers and the crematoria--huge
structures built for processing large numbers of bodies. Those were used
strictly for delousing, claims the revisionist, and thanks to the
Allies' war against Germany, the Germans were never given the
opportunity to deport the Jews to their own homeland, and instead had to
put them into overcrowded camps where disease and lice were rampant.
What about the huge orders of Zyklon-B gas? It was strictly used for
delousing all those diseased inmates. What about those speeches by
Hitler, Himmler, Frank, and Goebbels talking about the "extermination"
of the Jews? Oh, they really meant "rooting out," as in deporting them
out of the Reich. What about Eichmann's confession at his trial? He was
coerced. Hasn't the German government confessed that the Nazis attempted
to exterminate European Jewry? Yes, but they lied so they could rejoin
the family of nations.

   Now the revisionist must rationalize no less than 14 different bits
of evidence that "jump together" to a specific conclusion. But our
convergence continues. If six million Jews did not die, where did they
go? They are in Russia, and America, and Israel, and scattered
throughout the world. But why can't they find each other? They do--
haven't you heard the occasional stories of long-lost siblings making
contact with each other after many decades? What about those photos and
newsreels of the liberation of the camps with all those dead bodies and
starving/dying inmates? Those people were well taken care of until the
end of the war when the Allies were mercilessly bombing German cities,
factories, and supply lines that were feeding those camps--the Nazis
tried valiantly to save their prisoners but the combined strength of the
Allies was too much. But what about all those accounts by prisoners of
the brutality of the Nazis--the random shootings and beatings, the
deplorable conditions, the freezing temperatures, the overwork, etc.?
This is war. The Americans put Japanese in camps. The Japanese
imprisoned Chinese. The Russians tortured Poles and Germans. War is
hell. The Nazis are no different from anyone else.

   Post Hoc Rationalization. We are now up to 18 proofs all converging
toward one conclusion. The revisionist is desperately swinging away at
them all, steadfastly determined not to give up his belief system. He is
relying on what might be called post hoc rationalization--an after-the-
fact reasoning to justify contrary evidence. In addition, the
revisionist then shifts the burden of disproving all this evidence to
the historian by mistakenly demanding that each one of these pieces of
evidence independently prove the Holocaust.

   Am I making all this up? No. This is not a hypothetical case study.
Every one of these examples, and 10,000 more, are readily available in
the various sources cited in this essay, as well as Danuta Czech's
Auschwitz Chronicle (1990), Henry Friedlander and Sybil Milton's The
Holocaust: Ideology, Bureaucracy, and Genocide (1980), Alex Grobman's
Genocide (1983), Michael Marrus's edited nine-volume collection of
articles on The Nazi Holocaust (1989), and Leni Yahil's The Holocaust
(1990). See Bibliography for full citations, as well as for the
revisionists' responses to these works,  which include (with those
already cited): Austin App's The Six Million Swindle (1973), Arthur
Butz's The Hoax of the Twentieth Century (1976), Friedrich and Thomson's
The Hitler We Loved and Why (1977), Richard Harwood's Did Six Million
Really Die? (1992), David Irving's Hitler's War (1977), and Fred
Leuchter's numerous Leuchter Reports on Auschwitz, Dachau, Mauthausen,
Hartheim, and the Mississippi Execution Gas Chamber. Publications about
the revisionists  include Shelly Shapiro's Truth Prevails (1990), Pierre
Vidal-Naquet's Assassins of Memory (1993), Deborah Lipstadt's Denying
the Holocaust (1993), the Simon Wiesenthal Center's The Neo-Nazi
Movement in Germany (1993), and the ADL's Hitler's Apologists (1993).

   Since it is not possible in a magazine-length article to adequately
cover all of the points made above, I will focus in depth on two major
points of contention by the revisionists: (1) the intentionality issue--
whether Hitler and/or the other major Nazis ordered the Holocaust; and
(2) the gas chamber/crematoria accounts. For each we will examine the
convergence of evidence, documenting each step along the way.

[Continued in Part 9]

                          Work Cited

   Shermer, Michael. "Proving the Holocaust: The Refutation of
      Revisionism & the Restoration of History," _Skeptic_, Vol. 2,
      No. 4, Altadena, California, June, 1994. Published by the
      Skeptics Society, 2761 N. Marengo Ave., Altadena, CA 91001,
      (818) 794-3119.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Charles/Disrupters
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:40:44 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles wrote:
BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
about CI related topics can send me email to
my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
this over to a new list. I will set one up
if others are interested and we will weed out
the ones who cause trouble via members vote.

Charles
~~~~~~~
Me: Good idea, Charles. I asked Willie to delete the pig slime off the list,
but they're still going at it. They just sit all day and night and write
stuff because the parasites are paid to do this. I found it interesting to
throw a few pieces of bait to Philip last night and to see him chew on it.
Everytime he opens his mouth he reveals more of his deceitful nature. He
just chatters and chatters like a little stupid monkey that never knows when
to quit. And ya, I think Willie needs to tighten up this list. In the
meantime, we all need to ignore the jerks as some have suggested and send
their mail directly to trash where it all belongs. I'd like to know what
Willie has to say about the subject. I think his list is great and deserves
better than having disrupters come here. I think we should try to stay here
until we hear from Willie on the subject.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:49:01 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi ALL!

> > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People should
> > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> fostering of
> > hate and intolerance.
> >
> > Philip Mathews

The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
Christ Jesus....

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)

Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
Parole, November 27, 1933....

"Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...

(Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
this a one way street?)

For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
manners.

"accursed Christians...."!?
(ever looked up the definition of accursed??)

It is perfectly ok for them to call me accursed....but let
me say..."Wait a minute...there has been a mistake in identity....
These people (jews as you know them today) are not God's chosen
people...it is the Celtic Scandanavian and Germantic peoples of
the world that are the true chosen people."...then I am
immediately labled as "a hate monger"...."one who is intolerant"
..."an antisemetic" (whatever that is!)...."a racist" etc. .

And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
are saying OR what the Bible is saying!

All you do is parrot what they want you too!

Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
antichrist rabbi has in store for you....

At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
definitely enslave the Christian to us."

Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
"I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"

Wheeew!...Can you imangine what would be said?...and people
like you would be leading the parade (out of pure ignorance)!!

Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19

"I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
Christianity....".

Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
the Father? (1John 2:22-23)

Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
you think he kept it all to himself?

In the same book...a letter to a Mrs. Donald MacIntyre, p. 195

"We[Jewery] do not believe that Jesus is in any unique sense
the Son of God."

Rabbi Meir Kahane said in The Jewish Press; January 6, 1989;
p. 49.....(and btw...Rabbi Kahane was the founder of the Jewish
Defense League....a very militant organization)...

"I have not the slightest sympathy for Christianity or Jesus.
As a believing Jew, not only is Jesus not "God," but he is
neither Messiah nor prophet. For the Jew he was a blasphemer,
one who attacked the Torah as unchanging divine law and who
was a false prophet and heretic."

"...the Torah as unchanging divine law...."!?

Here is a little proof that even though they tell you that
they believe the OT as the word of God...they don't....it's
just another one of their lies...

"For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob
are not consumed". (Malachi 3:6)

Now if YHWH doesn't change neither does his law....

This is in total opposition to what this rabbi said and
teaches...

More proof that these antichrists don't believe in the
Old Testament is found in John 5:46-47;

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for
he wrote of me. (47)But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe my words?"

Of course one shouldn't believe the words of Christ,
should he? Instead he should believe the lies of the
Jews/antichrists and lick their boots.... Isn't that
what you....and people like you are saying?

And what else does the Bible have to say about the
comments of these rabbis....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son."  (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also".
                                             (1John 2:23)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and
an antichrist." (2John 7)

"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son". (2John 9)

"If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive
him not into your house, neither bid him God speed". (2John 10"

"For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".
                                                      (2John 11)

Why are you standing up for these people?....In so doing
you are one of them!....

God says if you DO NOT believe Jesus is the Christ...then
you are a liar and an antichrist....

The rabbis say and teach that Jesus Christ is NOT the Christ....
that he is NOT the Son of God....

In the 1980 Jewish Almanac; ISBN 0-553-01265-7; Bantam Books;
Oct. 1980; it states the following in the first sentence of
the first paragraph under the heading "Our Identity Crisis"...

Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

Do you understand what the Jews are saying here?...If not..please
let me help you...They are saying that they ARE NOT the people of
the Bible!!!

"The tactical purpose of political correctness is
to silence the truth in order to protect the lie."
                         (don't know who said that)

Jeremiah

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Subject: [13texan] German Persecution
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:53:10 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Herbie said:
It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government was
*not* persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?
~~~~~~~
Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and imposed gun
control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to war against
Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour Declaration. Benjamin
Freedman exposed that.

As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what they
got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not counting
the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.

I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does that
mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick together,
they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in the
interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Charles/Disrupters
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:25:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=740
> Charles wrote:
> BTW anyone interested in holding conversation
> about CI related topics can send me email to
> my address... or if anyone likes we can carry
> this over to a new list. I will set one up
> if others are interested and we will weed out
> the ones who cause trouble via members vote.
>
> Charles
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Good idea, Charles. I asked Willie to delete the pig slime off
the list,
> but they're still going at it.

Typical hateful name calling by someone unable to engage in rational
discussion.

 They just sit all day and night and write
> stuff because the parasites are paid to do this.

Typical lies.

 I found it interesting to
> throw a few pieces of bait to Philip last night and to see him chew
on it.
> Everytime he opens his mouth he reveals more of his deceitful nature.
He
> just chatters and chatters like a little stupid monkey that never
knows when
> to quit.

Inaccurate description by someone afraid to discuss anything
substantive.

 And ya, I think Willie needs to tighten up this list. In the
> meantime, we all need to ignore the jerks as some have suggested and
send
> their mail directly to trash where it all belongs. I'd like to know
what
> Willie has to say about the subject. I think his list is great and
deserves
> better than having disrupters come here. I think we should try to
stay here
> until we hear from Willie on the subject.

Ms. Zimmerman defines as disrupters people who expose the hypocrisy of
supposed Christians, and the lack of historical content in a list
described as a discussion of history.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:44:07 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=741
> Hi ALL!
>
> > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
should
> > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > fostering of
> > > hate and intolerance.
> > >
> > > Philip Mathews
>
>
> The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> Christ Jesus....
>
> "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)

Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow God's
word.

(snip the lies of a well known forgery)

> And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> are saying OR what the Bible is saying!

You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real, (it
isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as justification
for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would hardly
form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even the
entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.

>
> All you do is parrot what they want you too!

Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
authors and websites and pretend its learning.
>
> Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
>
> At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> definitely enslave the Christian to us."
>
> Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"

Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those filthy
Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and the
Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the difference.

>
> Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
> Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
> Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
>
> "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> Christianity....".
>
> Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> the Father? (1John 2:22-23)

No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart and
will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
judge these matters, not you.

>
> Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> you think he kept it all to himself?

It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
poisonous as what you market.

You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to practice
as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Persecution
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 17:52:21 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=742
> Herbie said:
> It is your position, then, Jeanne-Marie, that the German government
was
> *not* persecuting the Jews prior to the call for a boycott?
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
imposed gun
> control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to war
against
> Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour Declaration.
Benjamin
> Freedman exposed that.

You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?

>
> As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
they
> got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
counting
> the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
> Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.

Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of Europe.
>
> I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
that
> mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
together,
> they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in the
> interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.

Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
most basic of Christian values.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:58:45 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Charles wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > them before me."
> >
> > nuff said!
>
> Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their belonging
> to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
>

Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27

In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
father the devil, and the lusts of your father
ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....

He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
would rather not read those passages because we
can't answer them....

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list Reply
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:21:16 +1000
From: "Frank Dowsett" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Dear Charles,
Please place my name on your new list.
Frank Dowsett.    fdowsett@idx.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles 
To: 13texan@egroups.com <13texan@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 4:08
Subject: [13texan] A new list

>I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>
>anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
>will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
>anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
>opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
>vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>
>Security:
>
>No arcives will be made public!
>No shared files directoty!
>No Public files directory!
>
>Community email addresses:
>Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
>Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
>Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>
>Charles
>
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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:27:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Charles wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > them before me."
> > >
> > > nuff said!
> >
> > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
belonging
> > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> >
>
> Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27

These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.

>
> In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....

This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
groups rather that individuals?

>
> He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> would rather not read those passages because we
> can't answer them....

Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered? You are a
disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
outcast from mainstream religion. You better hope the judgment rendered
upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
innocent people.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:29:09 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

LAST NOTE,
        You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
indoctrinated. SIR < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
have been given facts still you refute truth. You may say what you choose
but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH.... Either
you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
Soldier of YHVH
Ramon Sparks

At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
>> SWINE:
>>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
>hand
>> refute truth .
>
>Accept that you are unable to show that.
>
>
> >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
>> SWINE...
>
>The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
>Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
>scripture for their own ends.
>
> The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
>> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
>> messenger.
>
>But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
>
> We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
>> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
>
>
>You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and because
>you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is not
>a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
>any of God's other creatures.
>
>
>
> WE CHOOSE to not allow
>> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well established
>as
>> allowing you to succeed.
>
>I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
>hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate you
>generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
>
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
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>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:32:40 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
> LAST NOTE,
>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
> indoctrinated. SIR

That would describe you I'm afraid.

 < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
> have been given facts still you refute truth.

You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth. Why
you choose not to debate is obvious.

You may say what you choose
> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
Either
> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
> Soldier of YHVH

Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
nature of what you call Christianity.

Philip Mathews

> Ramon Sparks
>
>
>
>
> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ramon wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> >> SWINE:
> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
> >hand
> >> refute truth .
> >
> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
> >
> >
> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> >> SWINE...
> >
> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
> >scripture for their own ends.
> >
> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
> >> messenger.
> >
> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
> >
> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
> >
> >
> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
because
> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is
not
> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
> >any of God's other creatures.
> >
> >
> >
> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
established
> >as
> >> allowing you to succeed.
> >
> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate
you
> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
> >
> >
> >Philip Mathews
> >
> >

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 20:45:00 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>~~~~~~~
>Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which says that
>"Edom is modern Jewry?" Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
>your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and Judaism
>were the same, so go do your own research for once.
>JM

Communism and Judaism are exactly the same, JM....that's why they say,
"scratch a Jew and you'll find a communist"....And I think deep down the
Jews are proud of this fact....They are defineatly perverted liars.

David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:56:38 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

MUCH LAUGHTER !!!!!!

Ramon

At 06:32 PM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ramon wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
>> LAST NOTE,
>>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
>> indoctrinated. SIR
>
>That would describe you I'm afraid.
>
> < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
>> have been given facts still you refute truth.
>
>You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth. Why
>you choose not to debate is obvious.
>
>
>
>You may say what you choose
>> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
>Either
>> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
>> Soldier of YHVH
>
>Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
>nature of what you call Christianity.
>
>Philip Mathews
>
>
>
>
>> Ramon Sparks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Ramon wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
>> >> SWINE:
>> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the other
>> >hand
>> >> refute truth .
>> >
>> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
>> >
>> >
>> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
>> >> SWINE...
>> >
>> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
>> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
>> >scripture for their own ends.
>> >
>> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it tells
>> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend the
>> >> messenger.
>> >
>> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
>> >
>> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
>> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
>> >
>> >
>> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
>because
>> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you is
>not
>> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose than
>> >any of God's other creatures.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
>> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
>established
>> >as
>> >> allowing you to succeed.
>> >
>> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies and
>> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful hate
>you
>> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
>> >
>> >
>> >Philip Mathews
>> >
>> >
>
>
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>
>
>
>

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: [ Edom/Jews/Judah]
Date: 2 Sep 99 20:57:29 CDT
From: Bill Hoyt 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

"Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman"  wrote:
>Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
>redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.

Very easy to say, but not to prove.  The original word in the New Testament is
"Ioudiaos", which means, according to Strong's Concordance, "Judaen, belonging
to Jehudah, Jew".

There is no evidence that it was ever any other word (of course, if you have
some, I'd be willing to look at it).

Now, what is a Jew?  Accoring to Webster's first dictionary (which is the
oldest I have (1828)), a Jew is "A Hebrew or Israelite".  Interesting, I think
Jesus qualifies on both counts.  And the modern Webster's defines "Jew" as

Main Entry: Jew
Pronunciation: 'jü
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French gyu, from Latin Judaeus, from Greek
Ioudaios, from Hebrew YehudhI, from
YehudhAh Judah, Jewish kingdom
Date: 13th century
1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : ISRAELITE
2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the 6th century B.C. to
the 1st century A.D.
3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the
ancient Jewish people
4 : one whose religion is Judaism

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?jew

So I think Jesus qualifies on all 4 counts there.  I suppose one could create
a definition which does not include Him, but I have not yet seen one.

>After
>Assyrian captivity, Israel went to Arsareth, from II Esdras 13. Arsareth
>is Germany.

This is rather curious.  So then the Jews are not Israelites, even though
that's what the name means.  Instead, the Israelites are modern-day Germans.

Well, let's ask the Germans where they came from:

The Anglos and Saxons were a Germanic tribe.  And the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles
claims that the Saxons came from "Aethelwulf, son of Egbert...Itermon, the son
of Hathra, the son of Bedwig, the son of Scaef, who is the Son of Noah and was
born in Noah's Ark." (Year 855, AS Chronicles)  Now I have followed the line
from Aethelwulf, the King of the Saxons back to Noah (and left out a few, but
you can look them up if you'd like), and there's no Israel, Jacob, Joseph, or
Abraham on the list.  Surely if the Germans had such fine ancestors, they
would have included them in the geneological rolls.

Two that they did include in the list were Woden and Geat, and we shall return
to them in a moment.

Then Bede, the 8th century Saxon monk, traces the genealogy of Hengist and
Horsa (the first Saxon chieftains in England), back to "Witta, whose father
was Wecta, son of Woden, from whose stock sprang the royal houses of many
provinces" Bede, "Ecclesiastical History", I, 15.

And Nennius, the 8th Century Btitish Monk, gives the genealogy of the Germans
thus: "Horsa and Hengist, brothers, and sons of Wihtgills.  Wihtgills was the
son of Witta, the son of Wecta, the son of Woden.  Woden of Frithowald,
Frithowald of Frithowulf, Frithowulf of Finn, Finn of Godwulf, Godwulf of
Geat, who as they say, is the son of a God" Nenniius, "Historia Brittonum"
31.

The German epic Beowulf (7th-10th century) also has the same cast of
ancestors.  In it, Beowulf is a Geating (Beowulf, 195)

Asser's life of King Alfred (9th century) also lists the Saxon ancestry to
include "Beldeg, who was the son of Woden, who was the son of Frithowald...who
was the son of Geat (whom the Pagans long worshipped as a god)...who was the
son of Seth, who was the son of Noah"  Asser, "Life of Alfred", Part I. (the
fact that Asser uses Seth instead of Scaef is noted by Medieval archivists,
and Florence of Worchester, writing in 1118, noted "Seth saxones Scaef"
(Corpus Christi Library Cambridge MS XCII (Parker Library)), so even they
realized that Seth was the Scaef of the other chronicles.

So, we have seen from five Saxon separate sources (and they truly are
separate, as they begin in different places, end in different places, and
eliminate separate ancestors), none of which associate the Saxons (or the
Geatings, who merged with the Swedes) with Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob.  What we
have instead is this ubiquitous "Scaef" ("Seskef" in the Vesstusisima Regum
Septentrionius Series Langdethgatal dicta and the Prose Edda, and "Scef" in
the Fabii Ethelwerdi Chronicorum libri quattuor, the Royal Genealogies of
Iceland, Norway, and Denmark)

So who is Scaef (of Seskef, or Seth)?  Let's say first who it is not: it is
obvious that it is not a later scribal introduction into the text to give
"Biblical" ancestors to the Saxons.  No Christian scribe would have entered
(or let stand) the blunder about Seskef being born in Noah's Ark.  So it must
be original to the text.  And the Christians never used "Seskef" when they
were referring to Genesis, but always the Latin name "Iafeth".

Scaef is, in fact, the Saxonized version of Japeth, whom the later scribes
called Iafeth, and he was not born in the ark.  How do we know he's Japeth?

Because Nennius, our 5th century scribe, tells us, "I have learned another
account of this Brutus (the ancestor of the Britons) from the ancient books of
our ancestors.  After the deluge, the three sons of Noah severally occupied
three different parts of the earth: Shem extended his borders into Asia, Ham
into Africa, and Japeth into Europe" (Nennius, "Historia Brittonum", 17) and
says "The whole of Europe was subdivided into these tribes".

Also, every late-medieval scribe who wrote on these matters called the founder
of the Saxons "Iafeth".  It becomes obvious that they considered their branch
of the human family to be descended from Japeth, not Shem, Abraham, or Israel.
 In fact, there is no single mention of either of these three (or even Hebrew
names) in any of these documents, except in relation to Christ.  If the
Germans were descended from the Hebrews, it would come as a great surprise to
them.

>Most Jews of today are of Khazarian origin, a Turkal-Mongol
>Asiatic mix. They have nothing to do with Shem. They are called
>Azkenazi's who are in the line of Azkenaz, or the line of Japeth,
>and are linked with Gog and Gomer.

German Jews are indeed called Ashkenazim, and Gomer is linked with the
Cimmerians, and hence, Germany (The Assyrian Esarhaddon records his defeat at
the hands of the "Gimarri").

However, since by the time the Israelites would have been absorbed into the
Germans, the Germans were well established in Europe, a people like the
Israelites would have disappeared without a trace (which they did, apparently,
since there are no Hebrew names in any of the Germanic documents).

So since the Germans (according to Bede, Nennius, and "Beowulf") were
uniformly pagan in 500ad, any Jews who appear under that title must have
arrived after the fall of the Roman Empire (or they would not still be Jews),
and so have no bearing on our discussion.

When Paul wrote Romans, he said:

"What shall we then say?  That the Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness
have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith, but Israel, who pursued a
law of righteousness has not attained it" (Rom 9:30-1)  Now it is pretty clear
from the context that Paul considers Israel (v 31) and "The Jews" (v 24) to be
the same thing.  And for me, that settles it.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Edom, Quote
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:00:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=751
>
> >~~~~~~~
> >Me: Mathews, what about the part from your own encyclopedia which
says that
> >"Edom is modern Jewry?"

It's not my encyclopedia. Do you assume that because someone has you
pegged as a hateful antisemite  that means they are Jewish? You're
abhorrent to all decent people.

 Of course, you will avoid it, or go around it with
> >your slime-bait tactics. Rabbi Stephen Wise said that Communism and
Judaism
> >were the same, so go do your own research for once.

You call citing one Jews opinion as research, or proof of your point?
Pfui!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 19:01:50 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=752
> MUCH LAUGHTER !!!!!!

Hehehe.

Philip Mathews

>
> Ramon
>
>
>
>
> At 06:32 PM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ramon wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=748
> >> LAST NOTE,
> >>         You are intelligent for sure but seriously misdirected and
> >> indoctrinated. SIR
> >
> >That would describe you I'm afraid.
> >
> > < I simply CHOOSE to not debate your kind ,after they
> >> have been given facts still you refute truth.
> >
> >You've provided not a single fact, and you do not speak the truth.
Why
> >you choose not to debate is obvious.
> >
> >
> >
> >You may say what you choose
> >> but the truth cannot be changed by you or me .Praises to YAHWEH....
> >Either
> >> you are SWINE or the blind soul or a son of Esau ....
> >> Soldier of YHVH
> >
> >Praise the Lord, and may he give you the power to see the counterfeit
> >nature of what you call Christianity.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Ramon Sparks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 10:41 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >> >Ramon wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=720
> >> >> SWINE:
> >> >>        No sir,  we are not at all afraid of facts ,you on the
other
> >> >hand
> >> >> refute truth .
> >> >
> >> >Accept that you are unable to show that.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >The scripture tells me not to cast pearls before the
> >> >> SWINE...
> >> >
> >> >The scripture does not tell you to hate Jews just because they are
> >> >Jews. And the scripture also warns against those who would use
> >> >scripture for their own ends.
> >> >
> >> > The proof of your position is also defined in the word ...it
tells
> >> >> that the "SWINE" will trample the truth and then turn and rend
the
> >> >> messenger.
> >> >
> >> >But who is to say you've identified who exactly is the swine?
> >> >
> >> > We do not fear you , we despise you because you cause division
> >> >> and you detract from the purpose we have been given.\
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >You despise me because I point out your hypocrisy and lies, and
> >because
> >> >you know in your heart that this hatred which overflows from you
is
> >not
> >> >a Christian response. And you've been given no different purpose
than
> >> >any of God's other creatures.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > WE CHOOSE to not allow
> >> >> you to detour us ,to give in and debate you is very well
> >established
> >> >as
> >> >> allowing you to succeed.
> >> >
> >> >I have no desire to affect your actions, just to rebut your lies
and
> >> >hope that the power of God will open your eyes to the wasteful
hate
> >you
> >> >generate for false purposes which have nothing to do with Him.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Philip Mathews
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >

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Subject: [13texan] Willie
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:05:01 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hey brother,
      If you can not eliminate these non believers please remove me from
the public list and keep me on your private list. Many thanks brathair,

Ramon

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:13:52 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: "Andy" 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: <13texan@egroups.com>
>Subject: [13texan] The List
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:32:15 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to
>be
>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
>Vaya Con Dios, Andy

Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
have nothing to offer us.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: over 60 million Christians
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:23:07 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Herb Gorman wrote:
>
> David Griffin wrote:
>
> > Good advice, Charles....Jews want to discuss....we are not here to
> > discuss....we are here to raise up the banner of the LORD Jesus Christ...and
> > to proclaim all that the the Bible says we are; nothing more, nothing
> > less...Christianity is a mystical religion....Jews are a Satanic breed, as
> > our LORD said....we have nothing to discuss with them; for they do not have
> > the mind of Christ as we do.
>
> Interesting - the "Group information" section says of this group:
>
> "A History Discussion Group" ... which is why it seems strange that David does
> not want to discuss history. I didn't see anything about religion in the
> description, just history.
>
> Curious.
>

And you are saying the Bible isn't a history book?

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:30:49 -0700
From: "Yuriy Kirienko" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Willie:

I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not. They had
to prove their allegation but Jews never do. They always commit
a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
being anti-Semitic. Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
the judges.

They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
hear them.

Yuriy |Kirienko

-----Original Message-----
From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
Sent: September 02, 1999 11:20
To: 13texan@egroups.com
Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS

Willie Martin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=726
>     Charles I send out a message go everyone, or at least, I thought I
> had sent out a message to everyone. I HAVE NOT HAD CONTROL OF THE
> EGROUPS LIST THAT I FORMED FOR OVER TWO WEEKS. They will not let me in
> to do anything to delete it or anything else.
>
>     I have contacted the egoups people several times to try and get
some
> answers about what they did with the list and why I am no longer
> subscribed, nor why I cannot access it any more. And they do no
> repspond. I don't know what else to do.
>
>     You want me to take somebody off the list that I cannot even
access.
> I don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. Why you get so
mad
> without finding out the facts is beyond me. I am sorry if someone is
> sending you stuff you don't like but there is absolutely nothing that
I
> can do about it.

I think the more important question is why someone should be removed
from this list just because some members do not like to have their view
and prejudices challenged?  The description for this group is history
discussion. I've been trying to discuss history, but whenever the
subject gets beyond glib antisemitic allegations, people go into attack
mode and wish only to disparage Jews.

>
>     As for sending this message out to every one I don't care, I don't
> try to hide anything that I do; I try to do what God wants me to do,
> and that seems to upset a lot of folks even on my list. And several
have
> dropped off in the last few weeks, but more have taken their place.

And are you as sensitive to having your views discussed as so many of
the other list members?  I am frankly amazed at the inability and
unwillingness of list participants to defend their views. The ultimate
defense, usually reached very quickly, is to blame Jews for everthing,
accuse an opponent of being Jewish and concluding from that assumption
in antisemitic fashion that that makes their views somehow irrelevant.
These same folks will deny their antisemitsm (except for a few) or that
they are hate filled in their beliefs. What Christian faith teaches
such hate?

>
>     Charles I don't know why you stated that you were CI like you did,
> do you question that I am CI? For I certainly know that I am an
> Israelites a descendant of one or more of the ancient Israelite
tribes.
>
>     Now I have never posted, as far as I can remember, anything about
> the personal life of anyone on my list; so I don't have a clue about
> what you are saying about personal information.
>
>     It seems that you are pointing everything that you are angry about
> at me, and I don't know what you are talking about.
>
>     If it is something that has been posted to the egoups list that I
> started a few weeks ago, then I have not been privy to it, because
like
> I said they cut me off from having access to it, or to the members
list,
> or anything else. I can't even get to the messages section. So if you
> want to be mad at me I guess that you will just have to be mad.
>
>     I am sorry about the messages you don't like but I can't do
anything
> about them. I suspect that whoever took over the list is the one
> controlling all the messeges now; and that they took it over to try to
> destroy everything that I have worked and tried to tell all of you.
The
> only purpose that I am even on the web is to try to send our people
some
> information that will help them in their dealing with the enemy and
> recognize who that enemy is. And to provide information on what the
> enemy believes so they can understand why they act like they do, and
> therefore be fore armed against them and can recognize their antics
when
> they begin.

I'm sure there must be a technical reason for this. I've never heard of
an email list being taken over. I hope it gets solved soon, and I hope
that you will opt for the free expression of ideas which are on topic
for this group.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:07:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:13 PM 9/2/99 CDT, you wrote:

>>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
>>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
>>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
>>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked to
>>be
>>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them out.
>>Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>
>Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
>Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
>have nothing to offer us.
>
>Hail Jesus' Victory!
>David

While some of us are gathered on this list in our research into the history
of the jewish conspiracy we must be careful to not associate too intimately
with these poisoners of the European Christian mind. Some of us are here to
investigate a conspiracy that we each have independently been researching on
our own for some time. This is fortunate and very opportune for us now. Let's
take advantage of this and share information which will fill in the missing
pieces in our respective research. But let's not be drawn into arguing with
nor trying to prove anything to jews and their shabbez goyim. Perhaps there
are lurkers on the list that have begun to suspect a jewish conspiracy and
they will gain something from our sharing of information.

And keep this in mind in regards to the jews contributions to the list:

When you're a jew, you're a jew all the way
>From your first Kol Nidre to your last lying day ...

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 23:18:58 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 06:57 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Ed Kadach wrote:
>
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
>> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
>> >Philip Mathews said:
>> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get ripped!
>>
>> > > Philip Mathews
>> > > ~~~~~~~
>>
>> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
>and
>> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts to
>> alt.revisionism.
>
>
>
>Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I roundly
>condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
>group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
>wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
>The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
>hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
>criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
>information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
>police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop such
>activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.
>
>Philip Mathews

And if you were a more honest person you would admit that only on the
first occasion that the Nazihunter posted the info on me did you condemn
the action. Since then, over the last half dozen times or so that it has
re-occurred you have been very silent. I checked the archives just to be
certain. However, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the archive search.
In regards to my wife, if you check the archives, I posted her more
recent views on the jews. I do not deny that she was upset at me at
one time due to the property damage we incurred and the rash of phone
calls we received and continue to receive.
In regards to the police, I stated right from the start that the police
were notified and still are involved. John Morris, one of Edmonton's
resident Zionists insists he has information but has set forth certain
criteria that he wants met before he hands anything over. Why doesn't
he just hand it over as a good citizen should, keeping in mind that the
Nazihunter as you have stated is a criminal?

Now, of all the Nazihunter's posts inciting people to harass my family
and I, where was your condemnation over this recent posting of his?

 >> Forum: alt.revisionism
                         >> Thread: WHY NOT TELL ED'S NEIGHBORS ABOUT THEIR
                   NAZI BASTARD NEIGHBOR
                           >> Message 71 of 57280


                   Subject:
                         WHY NOT TELL ED'S NEIGHBORS ABOUT THEIR
                         NAZI BASTARD NEIGHBOR
                   Date:
                         1999/08/08
                   Author:
                         nazihunter 
                           Posting History

                    Fretz, Kevin*
                    103 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Haukenfrers, Hans*
                    106 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Sinclair, Leonard*
                    10655-52 St NW
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Jagessar, Jacelyn*
                    10721-116 St NW 13
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    Balkan, Brad*
                    116 St NW 1110
                    Search for public records    Find High School friends
update/remove

                    FRESH NUMBERS TO CONTACT THE NAZI PIG KADACH AND HIS
                    FAMILY.
                    WHY NOT GIVE A CALL AND TELL THEM WHAT A SCUMBAG ED IS?

                    Ed Kadach
                    XXX St NW XXXX
                    Edmonton, AB T6H 2Z7 Phone: 780-XXX-XXXX, : 780-XXX-XXXX

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 03:48:28 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi ALL!
> >
> > > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
> should
> > > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > > fostering of
> > > > hate and intolerance.
> > > >
> > > > Philip Mathews
> >
> >
> > The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> > Christ Jesus....
> >
> > "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> > darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)
>
> Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
> Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow God's
> word.

Did I say that was what that passage said....No I didn't...
Did you give any Scriptures for your unabridged criticism...
no you didn't....and your inadequate attempt at building
a strawman is almost laughable....

In the above passage the words fellowship and reprove as
found in the Greek are in the Present tense - active voice
and imerative mood...The imperative mood expresses a command
to the hearer to perform an action by the authority of the one
commanding....this isn't an invitation or a "Gee, I wish
you would do this"...but an absolute command requiring full
obedience....
>
> (snip the lies of a well known forgery)
>
A forgery?....Hummm...means there has to be an
original somewhere...doesn't it?

It is also a very easy way out..so as not to have
to deal with the material....

Please....by all means document your unfounded accusation...
Until you do I am going to keep putting it in...

Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
Parole, November 27, 1933....

"Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...

(Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
this a one way street?)

For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
manners.

"accursed Christians...."!?
(ever looked up the definition of accursed??)

> > And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> > are saying OR what the Bible is saying!
>
> You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real, (it
> isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as justification
> for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would hardly
> form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even the
> entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.
>

No it doesn't represent the words of one man...It represents
the words of Judaism as a whole...

"The people of God[Jews] cooperate with atheists; the most
skillful accumulators of property ally themselves with
communists; the peculiar and chosen race touch the hand of
all the scum and low casts in Europe! And all this because
they wish to destroy that ungrateful Christendom...whose
tyranny they can no longer endure."
Benjamin Disraeli, "Lord George Bentinck A Political
Biography"; London: Archibald Constable and Co. Lmtd;
1905; p. 324

"It (the NT) presupposes the concept of Jesus of
Nasareth as a divnity, a concept which we do not
accept..we do not accept jesus of Nazareth as the
Christ." Rabbi Joachim Prinz, testamony, New Jersey
Supreme Court, Tudor vs. Board of Education of
Rutherford, 14 N.J. 31(1953) certiorari denied 348
U.S. 816(1954)

These people are antichrists....and you say I am a
hater because I expose them?

> >
> > All you do is parrot what they want you too!
>
> Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> authors and websites and pretend its learning.

antisemetic?....mind telling me what antisemetic means...

And I suppose that you have a list of know everything
authors that give superior knowledge...(This ought to be good)

> >
> > Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> > antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
> >
> > At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> > Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> > definitely enslave the Christian to us."
> >
> > Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> > "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> > all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> > will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"
>
> Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those filthy
> Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and the
> Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the difference.
>
Where are you getting your knowledge to make this JUDGMENT?
And why don't you make the same judgment on the antichrists?

> >
> > Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> > Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman Wise...
> > Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People, Selected
> > Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> > Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
> >
> > "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> > Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> > of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> > Christianity....".
> >
> > Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> > the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> > the Father? (1John 2:22-23)
>
> No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
> believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
> which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart and
> will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
> judge these matters, not you.
>
Tells us!?....who are "us"?

Now if you direct me to the Scriptures concerning the Muslim,
Bhuddist, Hindu, etc. I would be more than happy to oblige...
because the word of God says to expose the evil deeds of
darkness...which is something you do not want to do...it's
called fear....

 >
> > Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> > you think he kept it all to himself?
>
> It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
> poisonous as what you market.
>

To deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God isn't "poisonous"?!...
but to expose those who deny Him is?...

All I am doing is trying to expose their God hating
practices....of course it is okay as far as you are
concerned...for them to hate my Saviour...the Lord
Jesus Christ....just as long as no one offends one
of the God haters...

"He that is not with me is against me; and he that
gathereth not with me scattereth". Luke 11:23

"And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is
not against us is for us". Luke 9:50

> You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
> their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
> mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to practice
> as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
> unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.
>
"One witness shall not rise up against a man for any
iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth:
at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three
witnesses, shall the matter be established". Deut 19:15

I've given my two or three witnesses....

Are these the lies you are referring too....the rest of
this post are the Scriptures you cut out of the first
post because YOU CAN NOT AND WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEM!

"For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob
are not consumed". (Malachi 3:6)

Now if YHWH doesn't change neither does his law....

This is in total opposition to what this rabbi said and
teaches...

More proof that these antichrists don't believe in the
Old Testament is found in John 5:46-47;

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for
he wrote of me. (47)But if ye believe not his writings,
how shall ye believe my words?"

Of course one shouldn't believe the words of Christ,
should he? Instead he should believe the lies of the
Jews/antichrists and lick their boots.... Isn't that
what you....and people like you are saying?

And what else does the Bible have to say about the
comments of these rabbis....

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son."  (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER:
[but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also".
                                             (1John 2:23)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not
that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and
an antichrist." (2John 7)

"Whosoever transgresseth and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son". (2John 9)

"If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive
him not into your house, neither bid him God speed". (2John 10"

"For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds".
                                                      (2John 11)

Why are you standing up for these people?....In so doing
you are one of them!....

God says if you DO NOT believe Jesus is the Christ...then
you are a liar and an antichrist....

The rabbis say and teach that Jesus Christ is NOT the Christ....
that he is NOT the Son of God....

In the 1980 Jewish Almanac; ISBN 0-553-01265-7; Bantam Books;
Oct. 1980; it states the following in the first sentence of
the first paragraph under the heading "Our Identity Crisis"...

Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

Do you understand what the Jews are saying here?...If not..please
let me help you...They are saying that they ARE NOT the people of
the Bible!!!

"The tactical purpose of political correctness is
to silence the truth in order to protect the lie."
                         (don't know who said that)

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 04:16:57 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi all!
 jsavage wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Charles wrote:
> > >
> > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > > them before me."
> > > >
> > > > nuff said!
> > >
> > > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with mindless
> > > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
> belonging
> > > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> > >
> >
> > Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> > as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> > neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27
>
> These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Why not?

>
> >
> > In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> > father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> > ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....
>
> This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
> rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
> groups rather that individuals?

OH!...who is Jesus Christ speaking to in John 8:44? I always
thought the context was found in vs 48....Would you show me
the correct context....

>
> >
> > He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> > would rather not read those passages because we
> > can't answer them....
>
> Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered?

Then you give me the correct interpretation of those passages.
I am always willing to learn...

You are a
> disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
> outcast from mainstream religion.

When one can not deal with the subject matter they
always turn on the person and try to discredit them...

> You better hope the judgment rendered
> upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
> innocent people.
>

"innocent people"?....such as??

I already know the judgment that will be rendered upon me! 

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A new list Reply
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:37:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Muriel Schmidt 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Charles:  add my name to your list.  Thanks.

9 +1000, you wrote:
>Dear Charles,
>Please place my name on your new list.
>Frank Dowsett.    fdowsett@idx.com.au
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charles 
>To: 13texan@egroups.com <13texan@egroups.com>
>Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 4:08
>Subject: [13texan] A new list
>
>
>>I have set up a new email list if anyone wants to join.
>>
>>anyone who makes personal insults toward the list members
>>will be removed. The is is for Christian Fellowship and
>>anyone who is a TRUE believer in Christ is welcome (in my
>>opinion) however some people lie to join a list and we will
>>vote on other issues to remove or restrict trouble makers.
>>
>>Security:
>>
>>No arcives will be made public!
>>No shared files directoty!
>>No Public files directory!
>>
>>Community email addresses:
>>Post message: thelostsheep@onelist.com
>>Subscribe: thelostsheep-subscribe@onelist.com
>>Unsubscribe: thelostsheep-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>>
>>Charles
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
"If population centers go without power more than 72 hours,
we'll activate Schwarzkopf and go to Martial Law - it's
automatic."
        - Emergency Management Official - S.E. United States

Muriel H. Schmidt  mailto:muriels@nwark.com     ICQ #13907589
______________________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:13 -0400
From: americans@grove.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Wille,
       Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE still
want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those who
would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you through
contentious actions.

Your Brother as always ,
Ramon

Thought for the Day:

"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"

R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: [ Edom/Jews/Judah]
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:04:33 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>
>
>"Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman"  wrote:
> >Bill, let's get this straight. The word Jew is a later scripture
> >redaction. It is not in the original text. Jesus was a Judean, not a Jew.

Very true, JM...our LORD Jesus Christ was not a Jew...He was a Judean...He
was an Israelite....But He was never a Jew....He despised the Jews; as did
Paul and the other apostles....and as we should today.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:12:00 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: Ed Kadach 
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
>Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:07:18 -0600
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-731-david_223=hotmail.com@returns.egroups.com Thu Sep
>2 21:05:56 1999
>Received: from [10.1.2.36] by ml.egroups.com with NNFMP; 03 Sep 1999
>05:04:12 -0000
>Mailing-List: contact 13texan-owner@egroups.com
>X-Mailing-List: 13texan@egroups.com
>X-URL: http://www.egroups.com/list/13texan/
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>Received: (qmail 32665 invoked from network); 3 Sep 1999 04:04:10 -0000
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>SMTP; 3 Sep 1999 04:04:10 -0000
>Received: from edkadach (dialin009.connect.ab.ca [207.34.96.9]) by
>portal.connect.ab.ca (8.9.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA16206 for
><13texan@egroups.com>; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:55:48 -0600 (MDT)
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>In-Reply-To: <19990903021352.50233.qmail@hotmail.com>
>
>At 09:13 PM 9/2/99 CDT, you wrote:
>
> >>When you wrestle with a kosher pig, the pig likes it, and you get dirty.
> >>Quit wrestling with the Khazar crowd, ignore them. Anyone have trouble
> >>understanding this should just use the delete key when the see Gorman or
> >>Philnancy on the e-mail. It's not easy to say this, but I almost asked
>to
> >>be
> >>taken off the list too. They are like static on the radio, tune them
>out.
> >>Vaya Con Dios, Andy
> >
> >Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman
>and
> >Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
> >have nothing to offer us.
> >
> >Hail Jesus' Victory!
> >David
>
>
>
>While some of us are gathered on this list in our research into the history
>of the jewish conspiracy we must be careful to not associate too intimately
>with these poisoners of the European Christian mind. Some of us are here to
>investigate a conspiracy that we each have independently been researching
>on
>our own for some time. This is fortunate and very opportune for us now.
>Let's
>take advantage of this and share information which will fill in the missing
>pieces in our respective research. But let's not be drawn into arguing with
>nor trying to prove anything to jews and their shabbez goyim. Perhaps there
>are lurkers on the list that have begun to suspect a jewish conspiracy and
>they will gain something from our sharing of information.
>
>
>And keep this in mind in regards to the jews contributions to the list:
>
>When you're a jew, you're a jew all the way
>From your first Kol Nidre to your last lying day ...
>
>
>
>Racialist regards,
>
>Ed Kadach

So true, Ed....the Jews are masters of deceit..They have nothing at all to
offer us...Their agenda is to devide and conquer...Knowing this  going in,
gives us a foot up on them...All Jews must be excluded from  from
communication regarding our Identity....All they know is lying....it is
there way, as our LORD said it was.

David

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:18:01 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: americans@grove.net
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Willie
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:10:13 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>
>Wille,
>        Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE still
>want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those who
>would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you through
>contentious actions.
>
>Your Brother as always ,
>Ramon
>
>Thought for the Day:
>
>"The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"
>
>R. Sparks

Willie....keep up the good work...I'm with you, brother....I'm here to learn
from you, my friend...I can deal with the Jews....they are so predictable;
and very easy to avoid.

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David
>

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Subject: [13texan] History/My Turf
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 09:56:59 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I had said:
Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
imposed gun control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to go to
war against Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour
Declaration. Benjamin Freedman exposed that.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil said:

You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?
~~~~~~~
Me: I haven't had the chance yet to send Phil's stuff to trash yet, but
after this, I'm directing it all there. For the sake of the list, and of
historical accuracy, I will answer this barbarian's question:

The Jews are a tribe who think in terms of collective interests. They are
the ones who flooded Germany with filth, prostitution, and the like. The
Weimar Republic was full of Jews. FDR, as Under Secretary of the Navy, and
Churchill, in colloboration with Zionists, arranged the Lusitania to be
filled to the max with war arnaments to be used against Germany. The Germans
warned against doing this openly, but it happened anyway and Germany
torpedoed the boat. It sunk with 1,195 lives losts. The wreck has since been
found underwater filled with explosives which caused the ship to sink. But
the sinking of the Lusitania gave the Judenited States an excuse to go to
war against Germany on Britain's side for the sake of Zionists getting the
Balfour Declaration in conjunction with the British seeking a Middle East
influence. So, here we have the Germans, British, and Americans going to
war, and the Zionists just sitting in the wings watching the blood shed. But
what does one expect? A Zionist serves the God of War and of Money and of
Domination.

As for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, little Phil forgets what the Judenited
States did. I call it that because, for one, the "Federal Reserve" which is
not a government body is owned and controlled by Jews. Jewish Rothschild
even said he didn't care what the government was as long as he could control
the money of the nation which would influence its direction. By the way,
Rothschild is a name change from a Jewish name, just like Rockefeller is.

Anyway, FDR put an embargo on Japan, and Japan tried to negotiate to stop
this embargo. This embargo was an act of war on the part of FDR, and
therefore, Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was actually a retaliation. It was
the excuse that the Judenited States needed to go to war against Germany
because Germany and Japan had their treaties. It is known in Polish embassy
documents that FDR was looking for a European war in the early 1930's, and
the Pearl Harbor attack was the impetus to it.
~~~~~~~
I had said:
As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
they got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
counting the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church and the
Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil said:

Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of Europe.
~~~~~~~
Me: Now look at this, list. I never said a thing about the National
Socialists murdering millions of Jews. I said they "deserved" what they got,
and that was expulsion from Germany under the Third Reich. That is all I
meant by it. I only feel that way because of what Jews do to a nation: they
lower its moral tone, dominate everything they can get their hands on,
control whole parliaments and congresses. I am aware there are those among
them not directly involved in these things, but as long as they stick
together and think collectively, they are all complicit. Therefore, it is
always to our benefit that they are removed from our civilization to go live
somewhere just amongst themselves where they can prey on each other and
leave us alone.
~~~~~~~
I had said:
I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
that mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
together, they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more interested in
the interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
~~~~~~~
Little Phil:

Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
most basic of Christian values.
~~~~~~~
Me: I have true Shemitic blood in me, so that makes Phil an anti-Shemite. I
also have royal blood in me as well, natural and spiritual.
Phil is a Khazar from Japheth's line. He's just interloping on my turf, and
how dare he do this?
JM

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 10:56:48 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Y. Kirienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> Willie:
>
> I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
> before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
> of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
judgment of their fellow man.

>
> When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.

>
> That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as such.

>
> The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.

False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all of
them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
facade built on lies and hate.

 They had
> to prove their allegation but Jews never do.

Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.

 They always commit
> a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> being anti-Semitic.

Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
your charges?

Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
> serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> the judges.

The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
>
> They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> hear them.

You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
convoluted thinking which you have displayed.

During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish to
stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: JM: Mathews
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:09:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=761
> At 06:57 AM 9/2/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Ed Kadach wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=696
> >> At 10:03 AM 8/29/99 PDT, you wrote:
> >> >Philip Mathews said:
> >> > > You should take his advice, or your wife will really get
ripped!
> >>
> >> > > Philip Mathews
> >> > > ~~~~~~~
> >>
> >> Is this some kind of a warning or an incitement to harass my family
> >and
> >> I, Phil? Much like the ones that the Nazihunter frequently posts
to
> >> alt.revisionism.
> >
> >
> >
> >Nope. If you were a more honest person, you would admit that I
roundly
> >condemned those actions. And you would also admit that you told the
> >group at AR in a public posting announcing your departure that your
> >wife was upset with you and wanted to know what you had against Jews.
> >The getting ripped reference is to her getting angry, because your
> >hateful conduct caused disruption in her life. The Nazihunter is a
> >criminal and should be found and tried. I note that John Morris had
> >information on this fellow which he was willing to turn over to the
> >police, but you decided not to pursue it. It is difficult to stop
such
> >activity when the victims refuse to cooperate.
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> And if you were a more honest person you would admit that only on the
> first occasion that the Nazihunter posted the info on me did you
condemn
> the action.

False. How typical of you to lie. I have twice roundly condemned the
actions. The second time immediately after you told the poster to AR
that I deserved to have a cordotomy performed on me. Wrong as usual Mr.
Kadach.

 Since then, over the last half dozen times or so that it has
> re-occurred you have been very silent. I checked the archives just to
be
> certain.

That's true, I don't feel the necessity of going on the record
everytime your phone number is posted on AR

 >However, I can't vouch for the accuracy of the archive search.
> In regards to my wife, if you check the archives, I posted her more
> recent views on the jews. I do not deny that she was upset at me at
> one time due to the property damage we incurred and the rash of phone
> calls we received and continue to receive.

And I particularly condemned the escalation of the harrassment to
include your family. In fact I wrote:

(begin quote)

Last September, in what was my first month in AR, Ed Kadach's phone
number was posted in what I thought was a frightening act of
intimidation.  I condemned the act and, in my newbie naivte, urged the
group to speak out on it.  A few did and I had an interesting exchange
with, I believe, Andrew Mathis.

I didn't know Kadach at the time, having seen only a couple of posts of
his.  In the months since, the full extent of his vile and hateful
views of numerous groups has given me a better understanding of why
more people didn't address the act at the time.  It is difficult to get
beyond the kind of powerful animus someone with his views engenders.

In my dealings with Kadach I have given at least as good as I got.  And
I knew my comments hit the intended mark when he recently gave me the
distinction of being the only person mentioned by name in his
despicable post on  cervical cordotomies. He clearly doesn't think much
of me, and the feeling is returned with more than equal force.

But forcing Ed Kadach off this group by intimidation is wrong.  It's
wrong to call his home.  It's even more egregious to involve his loved
ones.  He has the right to give voice to his views, however ignorant
and hateful.  I want those kinds of views aired in the public square,
where fools like me, with apparently nothing better to do, can
vigorously challenge and refute them.

It's ironic that this should occur at the very time that Doc Tony and
Gord are discussing speech rights.  I'm not sure yet where I come out
between them.  I support the broadest possible exercise of individual
rights, but I also believe that those rights can't be absolute in their
expression, if only because so many people avail themselves of so many
rights that conflicts are inevitable.  Doc's concern about where to
draw the line is a serious one.  But with absolutely no limits on
freedoms, the practical ability to enjoy them wouldn't exist.

Certainly this is not the case with Kadach.  I would be shocked if
anyone in this group felt his actions exceeded even a somewhat narrow
definition of free speech rights.  We need to condemn this activity in
no uncertain terms.  I wish Mr. Kadach's family well.

(end quote)

> In regards to the police, I stated right from the start that the
police
> were notified and still are involved. John Morris, one of Edmonton's
> resident Zionists insists he has information but has set forth certain
> criteria that he wants met before he hands anything over.

The criteria is that he will provided the information only directly to
the police. Have you acccepted that stipulation?

 Why doesn't
> he just hand it over as a good citizen should, keeping in mind that
the
> Nazihunter as you have stated is a criminal?

Addressed above.
>
> Now, of all the Nazihunter's posts inciting people to harass my
family
> and I, where was your condemnation over this recent posting of his?

I am on the record on more than one occasion, the most recent being in
March of this year. My support of free speech rights are real. Yours
are suspect. If this activity was happening to a Jew, you and your
fellow travelers would probably say they deserved it, just like they
deserved the Holocaust.



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Subject: [13texan] Re: "Hate and Intolerance"
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:31:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=762
> Hi ALL!
> > >
> > > > > Philip, the "Care Bear" said:
> > > > > What right do you have to defined who his enemies are? People
> > should
> > > > > worry about their own relationships with God, rather than the
> > > > fostering of
> > > > > hate and intolerance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Philip Mathews
> > >
> > >
> > > The Bible is very clear as to the enemies of
> > > Christ Jesus....
> > >
> > > "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of
> > > darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them". (Eph 5:11)
> >
> > Believing that this description fits Jews, merely because they are
> > Jews, is mindless racism, unworthy of anyone who claims to follow
God's
> > word.
>
> Did I say that was what that passage said....No I didn't...
> Did you give any Scriptures for your unabridged criticism...
> no you didn't....and your inadequate attempt at building
> a strawman is almost laughable....

Please, who do you think your fooling. And I don't attempt to use
scripture to support by views, there is too much of that by people who
feel the need to buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord.

>
> In the above passage the words fellowship and reprove as
> found in the Greek are in the Present tense - active voice
> and imerative mood...The imperative mood expresses a command
> to the hearer to perform an action by the authority of the one
> commanding....this isn't an invitation or a "Gee, I wish
> you would do this"...but an absolute command requiring full
> obedience....
> >
> > (snip the lies of a well known forgery)
> >
> A forgery?....Hummm...means there has to be an
> original somewhere...doesn't it?

Which is irrelevant to its value.

>
> It is also a very easy way out..so as not to have
> to deal with the material....
>
> Please....by all means document your unfounded accusation...
> Until you do I am going to keep putting it in...
>
> Rabbi Reichhorn said in his "Funeral Oration for Grand
> Rabbi Simon-ben-Ihuda"...which was published in the La
> Vielle France, on March 10, 1921....and again in Libre
> Parole, November 27, 1933....
>
> "Every hundred years, We, the sages of Israel, have been
> accustomed to meet in Sanhedrinin in order to examine our
> progress towards the domination of the world which Jehovah
> has promised us, and our conquests over the enemy, Christianity...
>
> (Notice the rabbi says that Christians are his enemy....does
> not this make Jews/Judaism the Christian's enemy?....or is
> this a one way street?)
>
> For ages past the sons of Israel[jews], despised and persecuted,
> have been working to open up a path to power. They are hitting
> the mark. They control the economic life of the accursed
> Christians; their influence preponderates over politics and over
> manners.
>
> "accursed Christians...."!?
> (ever looked up the definition of accursed??)
>
>
>
> > > And you call me these things....not knowing what these people
> > > are saying OR what the Bible is saying!
> >
> > You've just proven your own racism. Even if this passage were real,
(it
> > isn't) it represents the words of one man. To cite it as
justification
> > for condemning a whole people is the essence of racism. I would
hardly
> > form my opinion of all Christians by the words of any one, or even
the
> > entire group of this list. But then, I'm not a hater.
> >
>
> No it doesn't represent the words of one man...It represents
> the words of Judaism as a whole...

False. No more than your woods represents Christianity.

>
> "The people of God[Jews] cooperate with atheists; the most
> skillful accumulators of property ally themselves with
> communists; the peculiar and chosen race touch the hand of
> all the scum and low casts in Europe!

Atheists have rights on this earth and all religions cooperate with
them in daily life as they should.

 And all this because
> they wish to destroy that ungrateful Christendom...whose
> tyranny they can no longer endure."

More lies.

>
> These people are antichrists....and you say I am a
> hater because I expose them?

You haven't shown them to be any such thing. You've only shown your
mindless hatred, which you spew forth with a combination of lies,
distortions, ignorance, and the desire to smear a whole people on this
basis.

>
> > >
> > > All you do is parrot what they want you too!
> >
> > Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> > authors and websites and pretend its learning.
>
> antisemetic?....mind telling me what antisemetic means...

Hating Jews. Ever heard of a dictionary?

>
> And I suppose that you have a list of know everything
> authors that give superior knowledge...(This ought to be good)

There are no know everything authors. But you would do better to pick
some who know  something.

> > > Now finish reading what this poor, persecuted, mis-understood,
> > > antichrist rabbi has in store for you....
> > >
> > > At the wished-for hour, fixed in advance, we shall let loose the
> > > Revolution which by ruining all classes of Christianity will
> > > definitely enslave the Christian to us."
> > >
> > > Now what if I came out in the newspaper and on TV and said...
> > > "I can't wait for our pre-arranged plan that is going to ruin
> > > all classes of Judaism....and not only that...in so doing it
> > > will enslave the Jew to us Christians for ever!"
> >
> > Then I would say, look at that crackpot. I wouldn't say, those
filthy
> > Christians, they get whatever they deserve, even a Holocaust, and
the
> > Lord should punish them. Even you should be able to see the
difference.
> >
> Where are you getting your knowledge to make this JUDGMENT?
> And why don't you make the same judgment on the antichrists?

Because making a judgment on a single person is not the same as a
judgment on a whole people, just because they belong to that set of
people. Maybe I gave you too much credit. You're so blinded by hate you
really don't get it!
>
> > >
> > > Chief Rabbi Stephen S. Wise said in a letter to Jennie and Leo
> > > Waterman....who were a sister and brother to Louise Waterman
Wise...
> > > Taken from the book "Stephan S. Wise: Servant of the People,
Selected
> > > Letters, Edited by Carl Herman Voss", Philadelphia: The Jewish
> > > Publication Society of America, 1969; p. 19
> > >
> > > "I took up the challenge and told why I reject the Divine
> > > Messiahship of Jesus, without any attempts at concealment
> > > of my attitude towards the idolatrous features of orthodox
> > > Christianity....".
> > >
> > > Did this rabbi deny Jesus as the Son of God?....According to
> > > the Bible is he not an antichrist and one who does not have
> > > the Father? (1John 2:22-23)
> >
> > No more than every Muslim, Bhuddist, Hindu and many other religious
> > believers in the world. And yet you choose to focus on Jews alone,
> > which tells us much about you and the hate which fills your heart
and
> > will destroy your relationship with the Lord. It is for the Lord to
> > judge these matters, not you.
> >
> Tells us!?....who are "us"?

The public audience of this group, who else. Or are you going to go
conspiratorial on us.
>
> Now if you direct me to the Scriptures concerning the Muslim,
> Bhuddist, Hindu, etc. I would be more than happy to oblige...

Why, you didn't direct us to any Scripture on Jews? What you should be
happy to do is repent and change your ways.

> because the word of God says to expose the evil deeds of
> darkness...which is something you do not want to do...it's
> called fear....

God did not make you judge and you should worry about your own evil
deeds.
>
>
>  >
> > > Do you suppose this rabbi taught what he believed?....or do
> > > you think he kept it all to himself?
> >
> > It's his religion, and if he teaches that, he teaches nothing as
> > poisonous as what you market.
> >
>
> To deny Jesus Christ as the Son of God isn't "poisonous"?!...
> but to expose those who deny Him is?...

To set yourself up as God is wrong, and there is nothing to expose,
since all religions are not required to believe what you believe. Worry
about your own salvation. You don't enhance your chances by hating
others.

>
> All I am doing is trying to expose their God hating
> practices....of course it is okay as far as you are
> concerned...for them to hate my Saviour...the Lord
> Jesus Christ....just as long as no one offends one
> of the God haters...

People who have different views from your's are not God haters. Look to
yourself, and stop hating as you do. Their views of your God are
irrelevant, just as are your views of their's.

>
> "He that is not with me is against me; and he that
> gathereth not with me scattereth". Luke 11:23
>
> "And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not; for he that is
> not against us is for us". Luke 9:50

And Jews are not against you, therefore forbid them not!

>
> > You post this forgery and selected bits of individuals opinions of
> > their own religious beliefs as if they somehow justify your blind,
> > mindless hate. It doesn't. Other religions have the right to
practice
> > as they see fit. Your lies about Judaism reflect poorly on you, but
> > unlike you, I would not say it reflects poorly on your religion.
> >

> I've given my two or three witnesses....
>
> Are these the lies you are referring too....the rest of
> this post are the Scriptures you cut out of the first
> post because YOU CAN NOT AND WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEM!

One can find passages in scripture to support many things. The devil is
expert at it. There is no support in the Bible for your hatred, because
it is mindless and uncharitable. The way you practice Christianity is a
profanation in my opinion, and you would do well to look to yourself as
requiring much work to honor God.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Intolerance?
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:34:55 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=763
> Hi all!
>  jsavage wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=746
> > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Charles wrote:
> > > >
> > > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=719
> > > > > Christians aren't told they have to tolerate anything
> > > > > Christ said occupy untill I return... Luke 18:13 Jesus
> > > > > also said "LUK 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would
> > > > > not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay
> > > > > them before me."
> > > > >
> > > > > nuff said!
> > > >
> > > > Nonsense. Jesus thought of enemies as individuals whose actions
> > > > revealed themselves to be so. This has nothing to do with
mindless
> > > > categorizatons of entire peoples bases exclusively on their
> > belonging
> > > > to the group. Christ and his teachings do not support your hate.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hummmmm...John 8:44 is not thought of by Jesus
> > > as individuals....neither is Matthew 23:27....
> > > neither is Matthew 7:21-24...or Luke 19:27
> >
> > These have nothing to do with what we are talking about.
>
> Why not?

Read them.
>
> >
> > >
> > > In John 8:44 Jesus didn't say..Ye are of your
> > > father the devil, and the lusts of your father
> > > ye will do. EXCEPT most of you are okay....
> >
> > This is not a categorization of all people based on who they are,
> > rather than what they do. What kind of Christian are you, condemning
> > groups rather that individuals?
>
> OH!...who is Jesus Christ speaking to in John 8:44? I always
> thought the context was found in vs 48....Would you show me
> the correct context....

Why don't you answer your own question?
>
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > He did NOT say that at all...Of course maybe we
> > > would rather not read those passages because we
> > > can't answer them....
> >
> > Why should your misinterpretation of them be answered?
>
> Then you give me the correct interpretation of those passages.
> I am always willing to learn...

Better you should give us yours, you cited them.
>
>
> You are a
> > disgrace to your professed religion, which explains why you are an
> > outcast from mainstream religion.
>
> When one can not deal with the subject matter they
> always turn on the person and try to discredit them...
>

That would be your technique, only you apply to whole groups of people.
>
>
> > You better hope the judgment rendered
> > upon you is more just and Christian spirited than what you visit on
> > innocent people.
> >
>
> "innocent people"?....such as??

Jews
>
> I already know the judgment that will be rendered upon me!

Nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:37:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ramon wrote:

Ramon, the word is principle.

Philip Mathews

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=765
> Wille,
>        Please do not be offended at our moving to the one list... WE
still
> want you to run it ! PLEASE continue your work , just don't let those
who
> would stop you do so ...through any means ,including sidelining you
through
> contentious actions.
>
> Your Brother as always ,
> Ramon
>
> Thought for the Day:
>
> "The Compromise of principals for peace results in SLAVERY"
>
> R. Sparks

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Subject: [13texan] Re: History/My Turf
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 11:58:45 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

JM wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=769
> I had said:
> Me: The Jew-infested Weimar Republic was strangling Germany and
> imposed gun control. Zionists are the ones who arranged the U.S. to
go to
> war against Germany on Britain's side in exchange for the Balfour
> Declaration. Benjamin Freedman exposed that.
> ~~~~~~~
> Little Phil said:
>
> You really should learn some history. A half million Jews did not have
> that kind of power in Weimar. And the U.S. entered into a war with
> Japan because we were attacked at Pearl Harbor. Hitler responded by
> declaring war on the United States. Don't you think you bear any
> responsibility to be accurate about basic historical facts?
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I haven't had the chance yet to send Phil's stuff to trash yet,
but
> after this, I'm directing it all there. For the sake of the list, and
of
> historical accuracy, I will answer this barbarian's question:

In other words, having recognized that you've gotten in way over your
head, you will attempt a graceful retreat.

>
> The Jews are a tribe who think in terms of collective interests. They
are
> the ones who flooded Germany with filth, prostitution, and the like.
The
> Weimar Republic was full of Jews.

Unsupported nonsense. There were 500,000 Jews in Germany, most had been
their for 400 years and made a great contribution to the culture.

 FDR, as Under Secretary of the Navy, and
> Churchill, in colloboration with Zionists, arranged the Lusitania to
be
> filled to the max with war arnaments to be used against Germany. The
Germans
> warned against doing this openly, but it happened anyway and Germany
> torpedoed the boat. It sunk with 1,195 lives losts. The wreck has
since been
> found underwater filled with explosives which caused the ship to
sink. But
> the sinking of the Lusitania gave the Judenited States an excuse to
go to
> war against Germany on Britain's side for the sake of Zionists
getting the
> Balfour Declaration in conjunction with the British seeking a Middle
East
> influence.

All lies. You can cite no evidence for your charge on the Luisitania,
just hysterical allegations. FDR in his position would have had no
power to make such decisions in any event. Balfour and Jews had nothing
to do with our entry into WWI and interestingly enough, you offer no
evidence of that connection. Except of course unless your trying to
make people believe the old canard about Roosevelt being Jewish! You're
not that out of it, are you?

 So, here we have the Germans, British, and Americans going to
> war, and the Zionists just sitting in the wings watching the blood
shed. But
> what does one expect? A Zionist serves the God of War and of Money
and of
> Domination.

You shown no connection to Zionists, but by all means smear away hater.

>
> As for Japan bombing Pearl Harbor, little Phil forgets what the
Judenited
> States did. I call it that because, for one, the "Federal Reserve"
which is
> not a government body is owned and controlled by Jews.

Another lie. But once you go down that road, you must continue.

 Jewish Rothschild
> even said he didn't care what the government was as long as he could
control
> the money of the nation which would influence its direction.

He had nothing to do with the Federal Reserve. I assume your going to
return to Pearly Harbor and the Japanese attack sometime this week!

 By the way,
> Rothschild is a name change from a Jewish name, just like Rockefeller
is.

I knew it! The Rockefeller family is not Jewish.

>
> Anyway, FDR put an embargo on Japan, and Japan tried to negotiate to
stop
> this embargo. This embargo was an act of war on the part of FDR, and
> therefore, Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor was actually a retaliation.

It was not an act of war, and was never described by the Japanese as
such. You're merely trying desperately to find an excuse for Japan's
attack on the U.S. Japan started war with the U.S.

It was
> the excuse that the Judenited States needed to go to war against
Germany
> because Germany and Japan had their treaties.

Nonsense. The trade issues you reference were in place some time before
the war started in Europe. It had nothing to do with the European
situation.

It is known in Polish embassy
> documents that FDR was looking for a European war in the early
1930's, and
> the Pearl Harbor attack was the impetus to it.

Unsupported nonsense. There is no such Polish  document, or you could
refer to it.

> ~~~~~~~
> I had said:
> As far as I'm concerned, that little Khazarian tribe asked for what
> they got. I think the fact that Germany was destroyed in two wars, not
> counting the 30 Years War of which Jews infested the Catholic Church
and the
> Protestant movement to foment that war says plenty.
> ~~~~~~~

>
> Thank you for admitting that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. As
> for your belief they deserved it, that is a matter you will one day
> have to take up with someone else. The German destruction in World War
> II was their own doing, as they brought a living hell to all of
Europe.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: Now look at this, list. I never said a thing about the National
> Socialists murdering millions of Jews. I said they "deserved" what
they got,
> and that was expulsion from Germany under the Third Reich. That is
all I
> meant by it. I only feel that way because of what Jews do to a
nation: they
> lower its moral tone, dominate everything they can get their hands
on,
> control whole parliaments and congresses.

What an insecure hater you are! Jews enriched Germany substantially. A
group of race hating madmen tried to wipe them out and ruined Germany
in the process. The Holocaust involved all European Jews, with only a
tiny percentage of them being Germans. What happened to the 6 million
missing European Jews?

 I am aware there are those among
> them not directly involved in these things, but as long as they stick
> together and think collectively, they are all complicit.

They think no more collectively than any other defined group of people
who have had to endure centuries of hatred from people like you.

 Therefore, it is
> always to our benefit that they are removed from our civilization to
go live
> somewhere just amongst themselves where they can prey on each other
and
> leave us alone.

It is to the benefit of haters and those who envy success of other
cultures.

>> I could care less about your little Jewish persecution complex. Does
> >that mean I would dislike every Jew? No, but as long as they stick
>> together, they'll continue to go down together. I'm much more
interested in
> >the interests of my Ayran brothers and sisters.
> ~~~~~~~

>
> Thereby revealing you antisemitism and your manifest ignorance of the
> most basic of Christian values.
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I have true Shemitic blood in me, so that makes Phil an
anti-Shemite.

Typical moronic reply. All human's have the same blood. It all came
from the hand of the same Lord.

 I
> also have royal blood in me as well, natural and spiritual.

Whatever that means!

> Phil is a Khazar from Japheth's line. He's just interloping on my
turf, and
> how dare he do this?

JM likes to spout mindless doctrine of a fringe group of Christians who
no little of Biblical history and swallow this Khazar nonsense because
it satisfies a deep psychological need which typifies people who think
this way.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:30:13 -0700
From: "Yuriy Kirienko" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

Philnancy:

Do not bother to write me an answer. I would rather talk
to a parrot than a Jew.  You are incapable of anything but
false accusations of what you yourself are or do. Do not
waste your time for I would erase your messages without
reading. Your garbage has no credit with me.

Jews did that all their history and for his constant false
accusations devil was thrown out of heaven. That message
below has no substance and is another bout of idiotic
Jewish lies and false accusations.

Willie, kick him out because he and his "opinions" are
devoid of meaning and substance. They are worthless
waste of time to read.

Yuriy Kirienko

-----Original Message-----
From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
Sent: September 03, 1999 10:57
To: 13texan@egroups.com
Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS

Y. Kirienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> Willie:
>
> I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I said
> before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a position
> of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.

It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
judgment of their fellow man.

>
> When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.

You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.

>
> That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.

We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as such.

>
> The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.

False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all of
them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
facade built on lies and hate.

 They had
> to prove their allegation but Jews never do.

Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.

 They always commit
> a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> being anti-Semitic.

Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
your charges?

Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet, any
> serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> the judges.

The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
>
> They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> hear them.

You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
convoluted thinking which you have displayed.

During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish to
stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The List
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 17:12:45 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David Griffin wrote:

> Excellent advice, Andy....couldn't have said it better myself....Gorman and
> Mathews are Jew pigs...No doubt about it...They are enemies of Christ and
> have nothing to offer us.

Interesting. A polite discussion of history, in a group formally identified by
its creator as a "history discussion group," results in personal insults.

Perhaps it is easier to resort to ad hominem than it is to deal with succinct
questions about history... it is more embarrassing, of course, because it
reveals those who avoid responding to polite questions as something other than
seekers of historical knowledge.

I am not Jewish. I do not even know any people who are Jewish. I am simply one
citizen who is not content to accept pronouncements about history which are so
patently false, as are those made here by many, including you, David.

I'm ok with your inability to deal with open discussion, as long as you are.
People can watch you run and draw their own conclusions.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:06:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Y. Kurienko wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=776
> Philnancy:
>
> Do not bother to write me an answer. I would rather talk
> to a parrot than a Jew.

I don't have the slightest concern what you would rather.

 You are incapable of anything but
> false accusations of what you yourself are or do.

You are describing yourself, as has been shown.

> Do not
> waste your time for I would erase your messages without
> reading. Your garbage has no credit with me.

Of course, because you are incapable of dealing with having your
nonsense rebutted. It demonstrates the shallowness of your beliefs.

>
> Jews did that all their history and for his constant false
> accusations devil was thrown out of heaven.

More idiotic nonsense. Stop hiding beyond God to justify your mindless
hatred. You may delude yourself, but He knows what you are.

 That message
> below has no substance and is another bout of idiotic
> Jewish lies and false accusations.

Sure, that's why you are unable to deal with it.
>
> Willie, kick him out because he and his "opinions" are
> devoid of meaning and substance. They are worthless
> waste of time to read.

In other words, protect me Willie, he's got me pegged and I don't know
how to answer!  How typical of lying antisemites.

Philip Mathews

>
> Yuriy Kirienko
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: philnancy@aol.com [mailto:philnancy@aol.com]
> Sent: September 03, 1999 10:57
> To: 13texan@egroups.com
> Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
>
>
> Y. Kirienko wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > Willie:
> >
> > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
said
> > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
position
> > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
>
> It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
> judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
> on nonsense. Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
> own opinions, but not to their own facts. It is clear you prefer to
> spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
> on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> judgment of their fellow man.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
>
> You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
> fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
> you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
>
>
> >
> > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
>
> We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
> the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
such.
>
>
> >
> > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
>
> False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
of
> them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
> distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
> easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> facade built on lies and hate.
>
>
>
>
>  They had
> > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
>
> Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.
>
>  They always commit
> > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > being anti-Semitic.
>
> Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
> in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
> your charges?
>
>
> Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
any
> > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > the judges.
>
> The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
> >
> > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > hear them.
>
> You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
>
>
> During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
> as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
to
> stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
>
> Philip Mathews
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 18:46:13 -0700
From: reiver@tca.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

reive-@tca.net wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=770
> Y. Kirienko wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > Willie:
> >
> > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
said
> > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
position
> > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
>
> It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing the
> judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people based
> on nonsense.

REIV: And Androgyne is NOT judging? Just look at the foregoing
sentence: You are only a "Christian" when Andro has determined and
declared that you are not a Christian.

> Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to their
> own opinions, but not to their own facts.

REIV: Then Andro is not entitled to it's own facts, which is very
convenient,
and is likely the reason that the majority of it's posts contain
primarily  pronouncements of "truth" which are little more than
uninformed opinion. Requests for evidence from opponents are frequent,
and serve only to distract.

I will not parse the remainder of Andro's post, but will leave it
intact for any who care to examine it and thereby determine just who is
being judgemental here.  It is obvious, and one can only conclude that
Andro is a fraud.

Andro is not here to save anybody, or to promote anything good.
Disruption is the only purpose in life for such creatures.  Shall we
concede defeat, by abandoning this list and fleeing to another?  Or
should we further our goals by using Andro as an example?  You know -
that's what is being done against this list.

All these posts are archived on this website.  Andro has given us
plenty of ammunition to use against the enemy.  We have generated
plenty enough for our enemies by consistently responding to Andro's
posts.  We should ignore them.

The psychology of our enemy's argumentation is exemplified by Andro's
style, and we should learn this and pass it on to others, rather than
allow ourselves to be baited and toyed with. When we allow them to goad
us, they gloat all over the place.  We need to be wise as serpents.

The encroaching police state; the NWO - whatever you want to call it -
is all the proof we need that our enemies are liars, and cannot enforce
their beliefs except by tyranny.  In spite of Andro's bullshit to the
contrary, Andro wants to see you destroyed.

Ignore these creatures.  They are wasting your time.

Reiv



> It is clear you prefer to
> spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand reality
> on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> judgment of their fellow man.
>
>
>
>
> >
> > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
>
> You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now? Your
> fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's why
> you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
>
>
> >
> > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people. Only a
> > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
>
> We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because of
> the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
such.
>
>
> >
> > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
>
> False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
of
> them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing to
> distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind of
> easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> facade built on lies and hate.
>
>
>
>
>  They had
> > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
>
> Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in China.
>
>  They always commit
> > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > being anti-Semitic.
>
> Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews  committed
> in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back up
> your charges?
>
>
> Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
any
> > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > the judges.
>
> The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More distortion.
> >
> > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > hear them.
>
> You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
>
>
> During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more opinions
> as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
to
> stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
>
> Philip Mathews
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Willie: Kick these Bastards Off WILLIE PLEAS
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 19:27:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=779
> reive-@tca.net wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=770
> > Y. Kirienko wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=759
> > > Willie:
> > >
> > > I was kicked out of several list by Jews and their puppets. As I
> said
> > > before, they always falsely accuse and put themselves into a
> position
> > > of the judge. You yourself allow it to happen.
> >
> > It is you and the "Christian" members of this group who are doing
the
> > judging, arriving at hateful conclusions about groups of people
based
> > on nonsense.
>
> REIV: And Androgyne is NOT judging? Just look at the foregoing
> sentence: You are only a "Christian" when Andro has determined and
> declared that you are not a Christian.

Come, come, your intelligent enough to make distinctions aren't you?
Judging entire groups of people, based exclusively on their belonging
to those groups, is not the same as judging individuals, based on their
conduct. The hate and lies of the poster are demonstrable, unlike the
lies told about Jews as a group.

>
> > Discussing the facts of history, which is dutifully
> > avoided by some members, is not judging. People are entitled to
their
> > own opinions, but not to their own facts.
>
>
> REIV: Then Andro is not entitled to it's own facts, which is very
> convenient,
> and is likely the reason that the majority of it's posts contain
> primarily  pronouncements of "truth" which are little more than
> uninformed opinion.

No, that silly statement is an example of that.  So Andro exhibits it
knows little about what it speaks.

 Requests for evidence from opponents are frequent,
> and serve only to distract.

HEHEHE. Sure, asking you to support outrageous, hateful lies is
terribly inconvenient. You'd rather spout nonsense without challenge.
Tough.

>
> I will not parse the remainder of Andro's post, but will leave it
> intact for any who care to examine it and thereby determine just who
is
> being judgemental here.  It is obvious, and one can only conclude that
> Andro is a fraud.

One can only conclude poor reading comprehension and childish
argumentation to riev, who has contributed nothing to the discussion. I
suppose you call yourself a Christian as well?

>
> Andro is not here to save anybody, or to promote anything good.

Unsupported assertion. I'm here to discuss history, but you and yours
are here to smear and malign Jews because you are filled with hate.

> Disruption is the only purpose in life for such creatures.  Shall we
> concede defeat, by abandoning this list and fleeing to another?  Or
> should we further our goals by using Andro as an example?  You know -
> that's what is being done against this list.

You and others are afraid to discuss history, which is the topic of
this list. The only example that is being made is that fact.

>
> All these posts are archived on this website.  Andro has given us
> plenty of ammunition to use against the enemy.  We have generated
> plenty enough for our enemies by consistently responding to Andro's
> posts.  We should ignore them.

There you go again, seeing enemies everywhere. Do you ever choke on all
that hate? You should ask Him for guidance, you need it.

>
> The psychology of our enemy's argumentation is exemplified by Andro's
> style, and we should learn this and pass it on to others, rather than
> allow ourselves to be baited and toyed with. When we allow them to
goad
> us, they gloat all over the place.  We need to be wise as serpents.

It is you and yours who are doing the goading. Your ability to stand
reality on its head is interesting - doomed to failure - but
interesting.

>
> The encroaching police state; the NWO - whatever you want to call it -
> is all the proof we need that our enemies are liars, and cannot
enforce
> their beliefs except by tyranny.

There is no encroaching police state; the desire of most on this group
to muzzle people they don't agree with shows you're not really
concerned with police state, but are merely using those words for
propoganda affect.

  In spite of Andro's bullshit to the
> contrary, Andro wants to see you destroyed.

You lie without shame, but He knows.

>
> Ignore these creatures.  They are wasting your time.

It is you who are wasting people's time, not to mention your
relationship with God.

Philip Mathews

> > It is clear you prefer to
> > spout your nonsense without challenge, but that does not stand
reality
> > on its head with respect to who is actually engaging in wrongful
> > judgment of their fellow man.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > When they kicked me out they used the same argument as to keep
> > > them in like in this case below.  It is absolutely meaningless to
> > > argue with a Jew because he is interested in the advantage of
> > > lies for himself and does not seek the truth. Do not pay any
> > > attention to his "arguments" - just kick him out.
> >
> > You statement about Jews reveals a mindless ignorance and lack of
> > respect for human beings generally. Who is doing the judging now?
Your
> > fear of defending your lies and deceptions is not surprising. It's
why
> > you are an almost underground fringe, secretly ashamed of your own
> > views, and unwilling to defend the falsehoods you wish to spread.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > That man acts as a typical Jewish agent and agents do not discuss
> > > anything - they just waste the time of their targeted people.
Only a
> > > fool would try to prove anything to an agent. -- He simply would
> > > continue to repeat the same garbage all over again.
> >
> > We attempt to discuss things. People like you run from that because
of
> > the emptiness of your message and your fear it will be revealed as
> such.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > The Jews asserted the Holocaust as a fact that it is not.
> >
> > False. Jews do not assert is as a fact. Historians do, virtually all
> of
> > them in fact. Even in this rather simple statement you are willing
to
> > distort a fact to serve your own hateful purposes. It is this kind
of
> > easy exposure that causes you to want to avoid discussion, because
> > objective people would begin to see through the facade you erect, a
> > facade built on lies and hate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  They had
> > > to prove their allegation but Jews never do.
> >
> > Historians have proved the Holocaust many times over. It is no more
> > controversial than whether the Cultural Revolution occurred in
China.
> >
> >  They always commit
> > > a crime, call it with a different name and accuse their victims of
> > > being anti-Semitic.
> >
> > Then you should have no trouble telling us which crime Jews
committed
> > in Europe during WWII and tell us how that justifies the murder of 6
> > million. Or are you just a hit and run artist, with nothing to back
up
> > your charges?
> >
> >
> > Their leave their babbling in the aftermath for
> > > the victim to disprove it to them as if they are the judges. Yet,
> any
> > > serious attempt to investigate the false allegation is punishable
> > > by imprisonment by the criminals of Germany impersonating
> > > the judges.
> >
> > The misguided laws of Germany have nothing to do with the history of
> > the Holocaust, which has been documented by 2 generations of
> > historians, only a small number of whom are Germans. More
distortion.
> > >
> > > They do it because once they are accused they cannot be a judge
> > > who control the production of evidence. That automatically means
> > > that an impersonator becomes guilty and goes behind the bars. For
> > > that reason they would never allow to bring charges against them -
> > > they would be repeating the same stuff all over as if they do not
> > > hear them.
> >
> > You are lapsing into incoherence, which is not surprising given the
> > convoluted thinking which you have displayed.
> >
> >
> > During your rambling diatribe you've offered a dozen or more
opinions
> > as fact, with nothing to support any of them. I can see why you wish
> to
> > stifle anyones right to comment on your nonsense.
> >
> > Philip Mathews
> >
>

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Subject: [13texan] The Talmud
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:32:42 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

 The following are some articles written in the Talmud
 concerning the Gentile:
 Only Jews are Human.Gentiles are animals
 (Baba Mezia 114a-114b)
 For Murder, whether of a Cuthean(Gentile) by a Cuthean,
 or of an Israelite, there is no death penalty.
 (Sanhedran 57a)
 If a heathen(Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed.
 Hitting a Jew is hitting God.
 (Sanhedrin 58b)
 Jews may use lies('subterfuges') to circumvent a Gentile.
 (Baba Kamma 113a)
 All Gentile children are annimals.
 (Yebamonth 98a)
 Gentiles prefer Sex with cows.
 (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)
The Vessles of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
 flavor to food cooked in them? (Abodah Zorah 67b)

These are just a few of the writings of the Jew and their
holy book the Talmud. The Talmud's words are vitriolic. A
person who would read Mien Kampf and the Talmud would find
the Talmud far more intolerant.

St. John 8:13
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] View of the Jews
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:14:50 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

 One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones. Here
are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
articles that he had written:
 They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
(Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
Gentile....
(Weimar 53 pages 489-491)

"Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
(Weimar 32,pg 286)

You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
Changlings and abortions. If they could kill us all they
would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
February 1546.
(Erlanger 62, pg. 189)

Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
what he had read in the Talmud.

Michael Snead
14/88



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Subject: [13texan] Goodwill and Brutality
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:44:03 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   The thought came to me about the difference
between the holiday celebrations of the Christians
and that of the Jews. The Christians celebrate
Christmas and Easter. Christmas officially marks
the birth of our Savior and celebrates the desire
for peace on earth goodwill towards men. Easter a
more somber occasion represents the promise of
universal salvation through the ressurection of
Jesus Christ.
   The Jews on the other hand celebrate Hanukkah
the celebration of victory over King Antiochus lV
of Seria. The celebration of the Passover is when
the spirit of death descended into the homes of
the Egyptians, killing the firstborn male in all
of Egypt from newborn to ederly. Then the Feast
of Lots, called Purim, celebrates the Jewish
massacre of thousands of Persians along with Haman
and his ten sons. The festivities also include


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Subject: [13texan] Goodwill and Brutality
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:49:33 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   The thought came to me about the difference
between the holiday celebrations of the Christians
and that of the Jews. The Christians celebrate
Christmas and Easter. Christmas officially marks
the birth of our Savior and celebrates the desire
for peace on earth goodwill towards men. Easter a
more somber occasion represents the promise of
universal salvation through the ressurection of
Jesus Christ.
   The Jews on the other hand celebrate Hanukkah
the celebration of victory over King Antiochus lV
of Seria. The celebration of the Passover is when
the spirit of death descended into the homes of
the Egyptians, killing the firstborn male in all
of Egypt from newborn to ederly. Then the Feast
of Lots, called Purim, celebrates the Jewish
massacre of thousands of Persians along with Haman
and his ten sons. The festivities also includes eating
a three sided cookie with meat inside symbolic of Haman's
ear and the meat symbolic of Haman's beaten flesh.
   I personally do not have to wonder why, throughout
history, the Jews have been treated the way they have been.
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 07:12:27 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: sneadster@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] View of the Jews
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 21:14:50 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-753-david_223 Fri Sep 03 21:14:25 1999
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>
>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
>and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones. Here
>are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
>articles that he had written:
>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
>Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
>(Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
>Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
>shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
>Gentile....
>(Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
>
>"Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
>i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
>afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
>them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
>be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
>(Weimar 32,pg 286)
>
>You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
>the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
>enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
>they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
>son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
>Changlings and abortions. If they could kill us all they
>would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
>Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
>February 1546.
>(Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
>
>Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
>what he had read in the Talmud.
>
>Michael Snead
>14/88

Yes, Michael....blessed Luther was so right...he had read the Jews
perfectly......he was not too hard on the Jews....and as he stated, he may
not have been hard enough.......the Jews are the literal children of Satan
(John 8:44), as should be treated as such....our LORD is proud of us when we
hate His enemies....and are there any more of an enemy than the dirty
Jew?....we must make Jesus proud of us...so that on that great day, He will
say...."Well done, my good and faithful servant...come thou into My
kingdom..."

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: The Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:37:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=781

>  The following are some articles written in the Talmud
>  concerning the Gentile:

First, the Talmud is not a collection of  articles.  Second, your
contention that these passages refer to Gentiles is incorrect in most
cases.  But let’s look at some of the antisemitic lies you’ve posted.

>  Only Jews are Human.Gentiles are animals
>  (Baba Mezia 114a-114b)

Apparently a deliberate mistranslation. The passage deals with the
technical rules of corpse-impurity which, according to the author of
this text, apply to Jews and not to gentiles. In this connection
Ezekiel 34:31 is cited: "And ye My sheep [referring to Israel], the
sheep of My pasture, are _men [Hebrew: "adam"]_, and I am your God,
saith the Lord God." From a careful midrashic reading of this Biblical
verse, Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai deduced "Only "ye" [i.e., Israel, not
other nations] are designated "adam," in the sense that only Jewish
corpses and graves generate impurity according to Numbers 19:14: "This
is the law: when a _man ['adam']_ dieth in a tent, every one that
cometh into the tent...shall be unclean seven days..." The passage is
legal and exegetical, not theological. If anything, it seems to put
Jews on a lower footing than non-Jews. Typically, the words "but
beasts" were added on by whoever put this list together. They do not
appear in the original.

>  For Murder, whether of a Cuthean(Gentile) by a Cuthean,
>  or of an Israelite, there is no death penalty.
>  (Sanhedran 57a)

(a) It hardly needs be said that the Talmud does not state that Jews
may rob or kill non-Jews. It may be appropriate to make a few general
comments about the Talmudic view of murder.

Taking the life of any human being is forbidden. The Talmud teaches
that this prohibition was first declared in Genesis and applies to all
mankind. Everyone, Jew and non-Jew alike, commits a grievous sin if he
takes the life of another human being. The Talmud teaches: "Therefore
Adam was created alone in the world [i.e. humanity started from a
single individual] to teach that whoever destroys one person, it is
considered as if he has destroyed an entire world, and whoever saves
one person, it is considered as if he has saved an entire world, and to
establish peace among all creatures so that no one will say 'my ancestor
was greater than your ancestor' ..." (TY Sanhedrin 22). A similar
teaching regarding the enormity of the crime of murder was learned by
the sages from an analysis of the biblical text describing the murder
of Abel by Cain (Gen. 4:10): "The blood of your brother cries out to Me
..". The word 'blood' can be understood as plural in the original
Hebrew text and the rabbis teach that the reference is to both "his
[Abel's] blood and the blood of his descendants". These Talmudic
teachings have been largely
absorbed by all civilized nations.

It may be of interest to quote the words used by the ancient rabbinical
courts to caution witnesses before they testified concerning capital
offenses (the following quotation is based on the Rambam, Hilchot
Sanhedrin  12,3, who based his ruling on Talmudic teachings):

".. know that [in case of execution by false testimony] his blood and
the blood of his descendants to the end of all time [will be upon the
false testifier] ... that is why Adam was created a single person in
the world to teach that whoever destroys a single person from this
world is deemed to have destroyed an entire world ..... behold all
people who walk on this earth were created in the form of Adam .... the
faces of every one of them is different from that of his fellow man and
therefore each one can say 'the world was created on my account' ..."

While murder of any kind is strictly forbidden, the Talmudic passage
quoted above deals only with the issue of capital punishment. The
biblical system of capital punishment was not designed for social order
or social regulation in the modern sense. Even when rabbinical courts
held the power to impose capital punishment the rules surrounding such
punishment were so difficult to apply that there was essentially no
effective death penalty under Talmudic law. No capital punishment could
be imposed unless there were two witnesses who actually viewed the
crime and each other at the same time.

Furthermore the perpetrator had to be warned that he was about to
commit a capital offense (according to one opinion the warning had to
state which one of the four types of biblical execution would be
performed). The offender had to verbally acknowledge that he was going
to commit the offense with the intent of becoming liable for capital
punishment, and then immediately commit the act. If the offender merely
acknowledged that he knew about the death penalty he would not be
liable to capital punishment.

These and other restrictions on the use of the death penalty were
learned by the sages from an analysis of the biblical verses applicable
to capital punishment. Another restriction learned was that in case of
murder the victim had to be either a Jew or a Canaanite slave belonging
to a Jew and this point is raised tangentially in this passage of the
Talmud: "for bloodshed, a Cuthean to a Cuthean is liable [for capital
punishment], a Cuthean to an Israelite is liable [for capital
punishment], and an Israelite to a Cuthean is exempt [from biblical
capital punishment, but such an act is strictly prohibited and is
punished by Heaven
commentators].

This does not mean that there was no capital punishment in Talmudic
times, but such punishment was imposed by the king who acted within a
framework of values different from that of the sages of the Talmud. His
concern was revenge, order and deterrence, not the question of precise
interpretation of biblical verses which was the concern of the sages of
the Talmud. If the king did not use his prerogative to execute
murderers the rabbinical courts also had the power to impose
non-biblical capital punishment on murderers who were not liable to
capital punishment because of the various restrictions of the type
discussed above, but since these matters were dealt with on an ad hoc
basis there is almost no discussion of them in the Talmud.

It must be clear however that the prohibition against murder applies to
all people, Jew and non-Jew alike, and even applies to the wildest of
pagans. This prohibition predates the giving of the Torah and is one of
the Noahide commandments and is repeated in the biblical commandment
not to murder.

(b) 'What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep'. There is no such
statement on this page or anywhere else in the Talmud. In the framework
of discussion of the source verse for the prohibition against theft the
Talmud here notes that the verse which applies to Gentiles and forbids
them from stealing does not apply to Jews. Jews are forbidden from
stealing from Gentiles by other verses or by rabbinical ordinances.

>  If a heathen(Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed.
>  Hitting a Jew is hitting God.
>  (Sanhedrin 58b)

Misquote. The text doesn't say that he must be killed but that he's
worthy of death -- an idiomatic phrase referring to death by the hand
of god (struck by lightning etc.). That's because by hitting a man
(made in the image of God) you are marring the image of God. The same
is also said of Jews who simply raise their hand against others, by the
way.

>  Jews may use lies('subterfuges') to circumvent a Gentile.
>  (Baba Kamma 113a)

The passage discusses robbers (such as tax collectors who acted beyond
their legal authority) who have stolen property. The question that
arises is whether it is permitted to use subterfuge to circumvent their
thievery. In a long legal discussion, the entire thrust of which is
that any form of stealing from heathens is forbidden, the following
statement is brought forward for consideration: "we use subterfuges to
circumvent him [a heathen; this is one opinion] ... but Rabbi Akiva
said that we should not attempt to circumvent him on account of the
sanctification of the Name". The Talmud continues and notes that Rabbi
Akiva forbids subterfuges not only on account of desecration of G-d's
name, but also because theft from a non-Jew is absolutely forbidden by
biblical law. The Talmud continues to explain that even the opinion
which is rejected does not condone outright theft which is absolutely
forbidden according to all opinions.

The Talmudic passage here is a well-known one which makes the point
that the "law of the land is the law", that is, the civil and
commercial law of the nations in which Jews reside is binding on them.

The conclusions to be drawn from this passage, as noted by the
commentator Meiri, some 700 years ago are as follows:

"We find that it is forbidden to steal even from idol worshippers and
those who do not have any kind of legal system and if a Jew is sold to
them [as a slave] it is forbidden for him to leave their service
without payment, and it is forbidden to refrain from repaying a loan
received from them but one is not required to expend efforts to find
and return their lost articles, and in fact one who simply finds their
lost articles is not required to return them .... since return of lost
articles is an act of extraordinary kindness [in places where
'finders-keepers' is the rule] and we are not required to show this
extraordinary kindness to those who live without laws, but in any event
... in the case of a lost article it should be returned if there is any
chance of desecration of G-d's name by failing to do so .... but for
all those who have any kind of legal and religious system at all of any
type even though their faith is far from our own, they are not
[referred to] in these laws, rather they are in all respects as Jews
for these matters, both as to lost articles, or to mistakes and to all
the other matters without exception."

>  All Gentile children are annimals.
>  (Yebamonth 98a)

Such statements do not exist. On this page the Talmud considers whether
converts are considered relatives of their biological kin from the
point of view of enforcing upon them the strictures of Jewish law
regarding forbidden marriages. The Talmud quotes one lenient opinion
(in the end rejected) to the effect that these strictures should not
apply to converts because their blood relationship before marriage is
not considered to carry over to their new status as Jews. In the manner
of the agada this ruling was pinned on the verse in Ezekiel (23;20)
"... for their flesh is as the flesh of donkeys ..." a verse which
applies to Jews and non-Jews.

>  Gentiles prefer Sex with cows.
>  (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b)

Tractate Avoda Zara (literally Tractate Idol Worship) deals with
relations with pagans and idol worshippers, particularly those who
still engaged in barbaric and immoral behavior. Such behavior is
prohibited to all people and Jews are not allowed to aid or facilitate
such immoral behavior.

In Avoda Zara 22a-22b there is a discussion concerning whether animals
could be left in the care of pagans for safekeeping in cases where
there was a suspicion that the pagans would engage in sexual relations
with such  animals. The text quotes several sages who witnessed such
grossly immoral behavior and the statement is made that 'they [such
pagans] prefer .. animals ... to their wives'. These sages ruled that
it was therefore forbidden to leave animals in the care of pagans.

The general conclusion of the Talmud is that despite such isolated
cases of sodomy there was no reason even to suspect that the pagans
would engage in such crudities.

> The Vessles of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
>  flavor to food cooked in them? (Abodah Zorah 67b)

In this comment Rabbi Meir is speaking of the fact that if residual
flavour (e.g. from spices) is left in a cooking vessel and it is used
within 24 hours, then that flavour will be imparted into the food that
is next cooked in it. If left greater than 24 hours, then the flavour
will be worse as the food will have started to decompose. This point is
used to prove that even when a vessel is visibly clean, that foodstuff
is still absorbed in it. Gentiles have no need to keep kosher, and
therefore their vessels will not be kosher according to the above logic
(since the non-kosher flavour that is absorbed in them will be released
into the food). It has nothing whatever to do with the denigration of
gentiles - it is simply a recognition that Jews keep kosher and should
therefore use kosher vessels and that Gentiles have no need or
requirement to do so.

>
> These are just a few of the writings of the Jew and their
> holy book the Talmud. The Talmud's words are vitriolic. A
> person who would read Mien Kampf and the Talmud would find
> the Talmud far more intolerant.

Only if that individual was a Jew hater who posted in public email
groups well known and long debunked lies about the Talmud. You know
nothing about the Talmud, and yet are more than willing to post any
nonsense you find on antisemitic websites to further your smearing
attacks on Jews. Do you think the Lord supports such behavior?

Philip Mathews

>
> St. John 8:13
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:48:11 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.

Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.

 Here
> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
> articles that he had written:
>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
> Gentile....
> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)

Which is a lie.

>
> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
> (Weimar 32,pg 286)

He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater in
his antisemitic diatribes.

>
> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
> Changlings and abortions.

This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.

If they could kill us all they
> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
> February 1546.
> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)

More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as it
maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!

>
> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
> what he had read in the Talmud.

And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud, which
I have exposed as the canard they are.

Philip Mathews

>
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:16:47 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 09:48 AM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
>Snead wrote:
>
>
>philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
>>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
>> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.
>
>Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.
>
>
> Here
>> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
>> articles that he had written:
>>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
>> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
>> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
>> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
>> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
>> Gentile....
>> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
>
>Which is a lie.
>
>>
>> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
>> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
>> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
>> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
>> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
>> (Weimar 32,pg 286)
>
>He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater in
>his antisemitic diatribes.
>
>
>>
>> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
>> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
>> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
>> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
>> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
>> Changlings and abortions.
>
>This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.
>
>
>
>
>If they could kill us all they
>> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
>> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
>> February 1546.
>> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
>
>More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as it
>maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!
>
>
>>
>> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
>> what he had read in the Talmud.
>
>And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud, which
>I have exposed as the canard they are.

You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you all,
each and everyday. You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken
or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

>
>Philip Mathews

>>
>> Michael Snead
>> 14/88

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:56:18 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=788
> At 09:48 AM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
> >Snead wrote:
> >
> >
> >philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=782
> >>  One of Martin Luther's books was titled, The Jews
> >> and Their Lies had passionate anti-Jewish tones.
> >
> >Luther's hateful views of Jews were wrong.
> >
> >
> > Here
> >> are some of his writings in other books, sermons and
> >> articles that he had written:
> >>  They have taught so much deadly hatred against the
> >> Gentiles by their parents and Rabbis since......
> >> (Weimar 53 pages 482-483)
> >> Their Talmud and their Rabbis teach them that a murder
> >> shall not be regarded as a sin whenever a Jew kills a
> >> Gentile....
> >> (Weimar 53 pages 489-491)
> >
> >Which is a lie.
> >
> >>
> >> "Maybe mild hearted and gentle Christians will believe
> >> i am too rigourous and drastic against the poor,
> >> afflicted Jews, believing that I ridicule them and treat
> >> them with such sarcasm. By my word, I am far too weak to
> >> be able to ridicule such a Satanic breed."
> >> (Weimar 32,pg 286)
> >
> >He most certainly was too rigorous, not to mention a liar and hater
in
> >his antisemitic diatribes.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate
> >> the name of our Savior day for day...they are our public
> >> enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ,
> >> they call our Blessed Virgin Mary a Harlot and her Holy
> >> son a bastard and to us they give us the epithet of
> >> Changlings and abortions.
> >
> >This is a lie. Nothing in Judaism says this.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >If they could kill us all they
> >> would gladly do so, in fact many murder Christians....
> >> Luther's last serman, a few days before his death in
> >> February 1546.
> >> (Erlanger 62, pg. 189)
> >
> >More nonsense, but then Snead doesn't care if it's true, as long as
it
> >maligns Jews, the sure sign of an antisemite!
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Martin Luther, who read Hebrew fluently was speaking on
> >> what he had read in the Talmud.
> >
> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
which
> >I have exposed as the canard they are.
>
>
> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
all,
> each and everyday.

A typical Kadach lie. Most of these points cited from Luther are the
same as appeared in Snead's post on the Talmud. Read my response and
learn something besides what is taught at your hate meetings.

 You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
mistaken
> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
>

You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith as a
whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you Kadach!

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

>
> Racialist regards,
>
> Ed Kadach
>
>
>
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
> >>
> >> Michael Snead
> >> 14/88
>
>
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:06:11 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

   To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
but not the hater.
   The followiing are some of the past Popes'
thought's  on the Talmud:
***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
doctrine."
***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
Religion with daily increasing audacity."
***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
   Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
eminently defended?
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] More on the Talmud by Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:36:14 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the
necessity to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the
Talmud are repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he
has woke so hard to write.

THE TALMUD
                   1 of 28

The Talmud: Judaism's holiest book documented and exposed:
The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence over the
Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud itself,
Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of
the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)." The
supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also be seen
in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more knowledge of
the Old Testament than the Israelis.

    However, their religion is so ancient it pre-dates the Scribes Talmud, of
which they have no knowledge. According to the N.Y. Times of Sept. 29, 1992,
p.4: "The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further than the
Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the basis
of modern traditions never came their way." Because they don't traffic in
Talmudic traditions, the Black Ethiopians are discriminated against and have
been forbidden to perform marriages, funerals and other services in the
Israeli state.

    Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most influential
rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox Judaism and
the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law).
Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than 2,000
rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.

    N.Y. Times religion reporter Ari Goldman described the basis of the
rabbis authority: "Soloveitchik came from a long line of distinguished
Talmudic scholars...Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost
exclusively to the study of the Talmud...He came to Yeshiva University's
Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent teacher in
the Talmud...He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of Talmud...sitting
with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of the
Talmud."

    Nowhere does Goldman refer to Soloveitchiks knowledge of the Bible as the
basis for being one of the top world authorities on Jewish law. The rabbis
credentials are predicated upon his mastery of the Talmud. All other studies
are clearly secondary. Britains Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993 states
that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud to the
exclusion of everything else."

    The Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions Moses
gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus time.
Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and those who
taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because it nullified Biblical teachings.

    The famous warning of Our Lord about the tradition that voids Scripture
(Mark 7:13), which is regularly used against Catholicism by Protestants, is
actually a direct reference to the Talmud or more properly, the forerunner of
the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during Christ*s
lifetime, before being committed to writing. All of Mark chapter 7, from
verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord*s pointed condemnation of the
Mishnah.

    Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the widespread
Christian notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of Judaism.
But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments of
rabbis, not God; the Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their supreme law
and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said, void
the laws of God, not uphold them. As a reader of Talmud (in the rabbinically
authorized Soncino version) I know this to be true.

    There is a small Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to eschew
Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites, a most
hated and severely persecuted group within Judaism.

    To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical
commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two versions,
the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud is
regarded as the authoritative version:  "The authority of the Babylonian
Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of doubt
the former is decisive." (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to Kabbalah: A
Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40)

    This study is based on the Jewish-authorized, English translation of the
Babylonian Talmud: the Soncino edition. Every selection we cite is documented
directly from the text of the authoritative Soncino Talmud. We have published
herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up for
yourself. To verify the Talmud passages cited, refer to the Soncino edition
Talmud, which may be found in large university and seminary libraries. The
Soncino Talmud may also be purchased from book dealers. Translations: The
translators of the Talmud sometimes translate the Hebrew word goyim
(Gentiles) under any number of terms such as heathen, Cuthean, Egyptian,
idolater etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all non-Jews).
See for example footnote 5 of the Soncino edition Talmud: Cuthean (Samaritan)
was here substituted for the original goy... Christians are sometimes
referred to by the code word Min or Minim.

    It is the standard disinformation practice of the Pharisees to deny the
existence of the following Talmudic scriptures and to claim they are the
fabrications of "anti-Semites." This disinformation can only obtain cachet
among those too lazy to go to the English-language books of the Talmud and
look these passages up for themselves. Hebrew University Professor emeritus
Israel Shahak in his monumental 1994 work, "Jewish History, Jewish Religion"
(London:Pluto Press), has confirmed the malice and racism contained in Talmud.

    Like Prof. Shahak, we publish the following educational material in the
hope of liberating people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, from the
superstitions, hate-mongering and barbarities of Talmud. The implementation
of Talmudic philosophy has caused untold suffering throughout history and now
in occupied Palestine it is used as a justification for the mass murder of
Palestinian civilians. Some Teachings of the Talmud:

    Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be
punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

    Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city
where he is not known and do the evil there.

    Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human ("Only
ye are designated men"). Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of
Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated animals
("she-asses").

    Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, THE
GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

    Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews.  A Jew need not pay a Christian
("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

    Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an
Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a
Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

    Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews.  If a Jew finds an object
lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also
in Baba Kamma 113b).

    Sanhedrin 76a: God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an
old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a
Cuthean..."

    Sanhedrin 57a: JEWS MAY ROB AND KILL NON-JEWS. When a Jew murders a
Christian ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from
a Gentile he may keep.

    Baba Kamma 37b: Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God
has "exposed their money to Israel."

    Baba Kamma 113a: Jews May Lie to Non-Jews . JEWS MAY USE LIES
("subterfuges") TO CIRCUMVENT A GENTILE.

    Yebamoth 98a: Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human. All Gentile children are
animals.

    Abodah Zarah 36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from
birth.

    Abodah Zarah 22a-22b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

    Abodah Zarah 67b: "The vessels of Gentiles, do they not impart a worsened
flavor to the food cooked in them?"

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Subject: [13texan] Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:50:08 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

THE TALMUD
                   2 of 28

    Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus mother was a
whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot
with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in
the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Miriam
the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

Gloats over Christ Dying Young A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the
early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus)
was?-He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody
and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was
thirty-three or thirty-four years old."

    Sanhedrin 43a . SAYS JESUS WAS A SORCERER.  Jesus ("Yeshu" and in
footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced sorcery.

    Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see footnote #4)
is being boiled "hot excrement".

    Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the Passover,
Yeshu was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense could be
made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"

    Attacks Christians and their Books Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians
("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished
there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of minim).

    Sanhedrin 90a . Those who read the New Testament (uncanonical books, see
footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

    Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the Christians,
i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

    Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New Testament
books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish
Religion, p. 21).

    Sick and Insane Teachings Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should
take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey
and eat it.

    Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy
way is given.

    Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the
animals in the Garden of Eden.

    Yebamoth 63a . Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.

    Sanhedrin 55b . A JEW MAY MARRY A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL (specifically,
three years "and a day" old).

    Sanhedrin 54b . A JEW MAY HAVE SEX WITH A CHILD AS LONG AS THE CHILD IS
LESS THAN NINE YEARS OLD.

    Kethuboth 11b . "WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A LITTLE (three
year old) GIRL IT IS NOTHING BECAUSE HER VIRGINITY WILL GROW BACK."

    Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to
marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to
marry a Jewish priest.

    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that
Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

    Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

    Baba Mezia 59b. A RABBI DEBATES GOD AND DEFEATS HIM. GOD ADMITS THE RABBI
WON THE DEBATE.

    Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet)
a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to
walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time;
if he does, his children will be epileptic."

    Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and were
exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindlers List where the Hollywood director shows a
Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and falling into a
pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two other Jewish children
partially immersed who inform the interloper that this cesspool is their
hiding spot exclusively and that he must find his own. These are the kind of
disgusting and morbid, psychotic images which Jewish kids are exposed to
constantly in the cinematic liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that matter,
in the Talmud as well.

    Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew
should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he
can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dogs excrement as it loosens the
limbs."

    Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass
between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees.
Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a
crossroads.

    Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer
every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave.

    Shabbath 86a-86b . Because Jews are holy they do not have sex during the
day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have sex during
the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark.

    Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust" tales from
the Talmud: Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by the
Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million Jewish
children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans. (Ancient
demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the entire world
at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion Jews).

    A Revealing Admission Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked of the
rabbi whether some wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it was
defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a Gentile
touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to worry, that
the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the thieves in
Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews

    Pharisaic Rituals Erubin 21b (p. 150). "Rabbi Akiba said to him, "Give me
some water to wash my hands." "It will not suffice for drinking," the other
complained, "will it suffice for washing your hands?" "What can I do? the
former replied, "when for neglecting the words of the Rabbis one deserves
death? It is better that I myself should die than that I transgress against
the opinion of my colleagues."[This is the ritual hand washing condemned by
Jesus in Matthew 15: 1-9].

    "Great Rabbi" Deceives A Woman Kallah 51a (Soncino Minor Tractates).
Teaches that God approves of rabbis who lie: "The elders were once sitting in
the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other
uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that
he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a
child conceived during a womans menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he
is both a bastard and a son of a niddah. "They said, "What induced you to
contradict the opinion of your colleagues?" He replied, "I will prove it
concerning him." He went to the lads mother and found her sitting in the
market selling beans. "He said to her, "My daughter, if you will answer the
question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come." (eternal
life). She said to him, "Swear it to me." Rabbi Akiba, "taking the oath with
his lips but annulling it in his heart," said to her, "What is the status of
your son?" She replied, "When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah
(menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had
intercourse with me and this son was born to me." Consequently the child was
both a bastard and the son of a niddah. It was declared, "..Blessed be the
God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba..."

    In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars the preceding
discussion is actually about Christ (the lad who "uncovered his head"). The
reference to the lad*s mother is of course to the mother of Jesus, Blessed
Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in Talmud).

    Genocide Advocated by Talmud Minor Tractates. Soferim 15, Rule 10. This
is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the
best of the Gentiles should all be killed").

    This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original
Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia,
published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the
entry, "Gentile," (p. 617).

    This original Talmud passage has been concealed in translation. The
Jewish Encyclopedia states that, "...in the various versions the reading has
been altered, The best among the Egyptians being generally substituted." In
the Soncino version: "the best of the heathens" (Minor Tractates, Soferim
41a-b]. Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of
Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of
non-Jews. ("Jewish Press" of June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

    On Purim, Feb. 25, 1994, Israeli army officer Baruch Goldstein, an
orthodox Jew from Brooklyn, massacred 40 Palestinian civilians, including
children, while they knelt in prayer in a mosque. Goldstein was a disciple of
the late Rabbi Kahane who has stated that his view of Arabs as "dogs" is
"from the Talmud." (Cf. CBS "60 Minutes", "Kahane").

    Univ. of Jerusalem Prof. Ehud Sprinzak described Kahane and Goldsteins
philosophy: "They believe it's God's will that they commit violence against
"goyim," a Hebrew term for non-Jews." (NY Daily News, Feb. 26, 1994, p. 5).

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, "We have to recognize that Jewish blood
and the blood of a goy are not the same thing." (NY Times, June 6, 1989,
p.5). Rabbi Yaacov Perrin says, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish
fingernail." (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

    Judeo-Christian Response to Talmud: Neither the "modern" popes or the
modern preachers of Protestantism, have ever insisted that the rabbis of
Judaism repudiate or condemn the Talmud. On the contrary, the heads of
"Judeo-Churchianity" have urged the followers of Christ to obey, honor and
support the followers of the Talmud. Therefore, it should be obvious that
"Judeo-Churchianity" is the worst betrayer of Jesus Christ on Earth today.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:20:15 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 10:56 AM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:

>> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
>which
>> >I have exposed as the canard they are.

>> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot the
>> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
>> all, each and everyday.

>> You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
>> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
>> mistaken
>> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
>>

>You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
>mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
>sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith as a
>whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
>willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
>inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
>point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you Kadach!
>
>Regards to a racist,
>
>Philip Mathews

Pastor F. Dowsett put it best regarding our Christian Identity beliefs in a
response
to an attack on "our truths". He said as follows:

"We really should thank the above writer for the free coverage of at least
some aspects of
our  beliefs, in particular, our origins. But isnt it interesting how that
every time the
media decides to have a swipe at us, they bring in the ADC of Bnai Brith,
the Klu Klux Clan, and any other derogatory  organisation and/or belief
they can lay their hands on. When are
they going to  get real? The fact that some members of the "Clan" hold the
same  beliefs as
to our Israel identity does not in any way connect us with them. But
perhaps Mr. Paton
believes that because the Catholic Church has its headquarters  in Rome, we
can now refer to all Catholics as Italians. As to the "seedline" theory,
this is held by a minority of
Identity believers, and totally rejected by the great majority of us. His
comments regarding our alleged beliefs about the black races are as
offensive to us as is his pathetic attempts
to handle and abuse a subject of which he has demonstrably such a  pitiable
lack of knowledge.
We have replied to these accusations many times in  the past, but of
course, good journalists cannot allow facts to interfere with  what they
are told to print. The point that interested
me in particular was the  phone interview to which he referred. I have
never ever spoken to
Mr. Paton,  either personally, or by phone. However, in mid June, I was
phoned by a Mr. Ian Walker, who introduced himself to me as a producer with
the ABC, and during  the course of
this phone conversation, I mentioned that there would be about  1,000
people who read our publication, "The Covenant Vision". The  remaining
comments made by Mr. Paton were fairly accurate in the context of my
conversation with Mr. Walker, but they were never made to Mr. Paton. It
would be interesting to know just how a young reporter from a provincial
newspaper is able to quote from a phone conversation held some two months
previously between myself and an ABC producer. And they accuse us of
believing in conspiracy theories. His follow-up report should be most
interesting. I found  a very interesting passage in the Bible which seems
to me to be fairly appropriate to what is going on as far as the opposition
which is being
constantly hurled at anyone who has the faintest connection with the
Israel-Identity movement. It is found in Acts 17, verses 5-8, which reads
as follows;

"But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took  unto them certain
lewd fellows of
the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar,
and assaulted the house of Jason,(read Platt, Dowsett, Campbell, Barley,
Peters, Mohr, , etc..) and sought to  bring them out to the people.

And when they found them not, they drew Jason (etc) and certain brethren
unto the rulers
of the city, crying, These that have turned the  world upside down are come
hither also;

Whom Jason (etc) hath received: and these all do  contrary to the decrees
of Caesar,
saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard
these things."

Isn't it great to know exactly Who is on our side!!!"

It is indeed Mathews. Now do yourself a favour and try to pry yourself away
from your computer and do something worthwhile for a change. You have way to
much idle time on your hands and you know what they say about idle hands.
Perhaps you should seek some type of employment.

YHWH Bless,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:38:16 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=793
> At 10:56 AM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>
> >> >And apparently believed the same lies in your post on the Talmud,
> >which
> >> >I have exposed as the canard they are.
>
>
>
> >> You haven't exposed anything except for the fact that you parrot
the
> >> Zionist propaganda agenda of despising the truth that confronts you
> >> all, each and everyday.
>
>
> >> You know, one would think when a man like you, who is
> >> honestly(?) mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being
> >> mistaken
> >> or cease to be honest. You've continuously choosen the latter.
> >>
>
>
> >You been consistently shown to be a liar and hater, and yet refuse to
> >mend your ways. You traffic the mindless hatred of a tiny, splinter
> >sect, reviled by decent people and anathama to the Christian faith
as a
> >whole. Interestingly, you don't even possess much of an ability or
> >willingess to defend your "beliefs", preferring to utter silly
> >inanities such as these, and then run off thinking you've made some
> >point. The Day of Reckoning will be an interesting one for you
Kadach!
> >
> >Regards to a racist,
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
> Pastor F. Dowsett put it best regarding our Christian Identity
beliefs in a
> response
> to an attack on "our truths". He said as follows:
>
> "We really should thank the above writer for the free coverage of at
least
> some aspects of
> our  beliefs, in particular, our origins. But isnt it interesting how
that
> every time the
> media decides to have a swipe at us, they bring in the ADC of Bnai
Brith,
> the Klu Klux Clan, and any other derogatory  organisation and/or
belief
> they can lay their hands on. When are
> they going to  get real? The fact that some members of the "Clan"
hold the
> same  beliefs as
> to our Israel identity does not in any way connect us with them. But
> perhaps Mr. Paton
> believes that because the Catholic Church has its headquarters  in
Rome, we
> can now refer to all Catholics as Italians. As to the "seedline"
theory,
> this is held by a minority of
> Identity believers, and totally rejected by the great majority of us.
His
> comments regarding our alleged beliefs about the black races are as
> offensive to us as is his pathetic attempts
> to handle and abuse a subject of which he has demonstrably such a
pitiable
> lack of knowledge.
> We have replied to these accusations many times in  the past, but of
> course, good journalists cannot allow facts to interfere with  what
they
> are told to print. The point that interested
> me in particular was the  phone interview to which he referred. I have
> never ever spoken to
> Mr. Paton,  either personally, or by phone. However, in mid June, I
was
> phoned by a Mr. Ian Walker, who introduced himself to me as a
producer with
> the ABC, and during  the course of
> this phone conversation, I mentioned that there would be about  1,000
> people who read our publication, "The Covenant Vision". The  remaining
> comments made by Mr. Paton were fairly accurate in the context of my
> conversation with Mr. Walker, but they were never made to Mr. Paton.
It
> would be interesting to know just how a young reporter from a
provincial
> newspaper is able to quote from a phone conversation held some two
months
> previously between myself and an ABC producer. And they accuse us of
> believing in conspiracy theories. His follow-up report should be most
> interesting. I found  a very interesting passage in the Bible which
seems
> to me to be fairly appropriate to what is going on as far as the
opposition
> which is being
> constantly hurled at anyone who has the faintest connection with the
> Israel-Identity movement. It is found in Acts 17, verses 5-8, which
reads
> as follows;
>
>
> "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took  unto them
certain
> lewd fellows of
> the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an
uproar,
> and assaulted the house of Jason,(read Platt, Dowsett, Campbell,
Barley,
> Peters, Mohr, , etc..) and sought to  bring them out to the people.
>
> And when they found them not, they drew Jason (etc) and certain
brethren
> unto the rulers
> of the city, crying, These that have turned the  world upside down
are come
> hither also;
>
> Whom Jason (etc) hath received: and these all do  contrary to the
decrees
> of Caesar,
> saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
>
> And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they
heard
> these things."
>
>
> Isn't it great to know exactly Who is on our side!!!"
>
>
> It is indeed Mathews. Now do yourself a favour and try to pry
yourself away
> from your computer and do something worthwhile for a change.

How typical of you Kadach to be unable to defend yourself, and post
instead some more unsupported lies by one of your "leaders".  Face it,
you and your beliefs are on the fringes of society for a reason, they
are despicable and false. Posting nonsense from people barely able to
pass a high school equivalency exam doesn't change that.

 You have way to
> much idle time on your hands and you know what they say about idle
hands.
> Perhaps you should seek some type of employment.

Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time is
much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord. That
hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

p.s. Notice you didn't have the courage or knowledge to respond to the
demolition of Sneads Talmud post!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:48:37 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=790

>    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
> exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
> faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
> here on earth.

You are not Jesus Christ and the comparison is invidious. Christ had
far more problems with non-Jews.

The sins of the Satanic off springs
> will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
> lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
> but not the hater.

If you hated lies you wouldn't tell them with a frequency that is truly
astounding.

>    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
> thought's  on the Talmud:

> ***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
> kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
> doctrine."
> ***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
> "the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
> prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
> ***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
> ***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
> ***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
> (1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
> ***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
> condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
> ***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
> ***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
> of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
> ***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
> By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
> continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
> Religion with daily increasing audacity."
> ***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
>    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
> religious Leaders of the past?

You are a hater when you post lies about Jews because you hate them and
want to smear them. Many of the great religious leaders of the past
committed horrible deeds in the name of the Church or the Lord.
Thinking people recognize that fact. To cite their antisemitism as if
that justifies yours confirms your ignorance of the religion you
profess to practice.



 Am I wrong to tell the
> truth?

You tell lies.

It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
> Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.

That's because you tell lies. I notice you didn't respond to the
exposure of your lies in the Talmud post. That's because you know they
are lies and are unable to defend them. Good people get flustered when
people like you attempt to spread your hate and hide behind the
Scripture and failed religious leaders to do so.

> Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
> noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
> eminently defended?

No more than the Bible. Truth always must be defended against those
whose evil natures would destroy it. A modern Pope has admitted the
past sins of the Church against Jews.

We recognize today
That many centuries of blindness
Have veiled our eyes,
So that we no longer see the beauty of your chosen people
And no longer recognize the features
Of our firstborn brother.
We know now that the Mark of Cain is on our forehead.
Over the course of centuries our brother Abel
Has lain in blood we have spilled,
Because we forgot your love.
Forgive us for the curse
Which we unjustly placed on the name of the Jews.
Forgive us,
For crucifying you a second time.
For we knew not what we were doing.

 of Pope John XXIII.

You should look to your own salvation.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: maxwell99@webtv.net (Colleen Jones)
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: More on the Talmud by Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:29:57 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=791

More lies about the Talmud from Mr. Snead, Jew hater extaordinaire.

>     The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the
> necessity to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts
of the
> Talmud are repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change
what he
> has woke so hard to write.
>
>
> THE TALMUD
>                    1 of 28
>
> The Talmud: Judaism's holiest book documented and exposed:
> The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence
over the
> Old Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud
itself,
> Erubin 21b (Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the
observance of
> the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah (Old
Testament)."

That's not true. The Torah - the Five Books of Moses is Judaism's
"holiest" book, however it has two parts, a written part (which is what
Christians are familiar with) and an Oral part (which the early
Christians abandoned). The Oral part, or "Oral Law" is analogous to be
a body of jurispudence and procedures to accompany the written law and
is understood to have been handed down from Moses around the 1200's
BCE. It was expressly forbidden to write it down because it was thought
that any such attempt would be incomplete but after much debate, it
became apparent that the only way to preserve it would be to
write it down and this was done between 70CE and 200 CE in the form of
the Mishna and the supplementary Tosefta. Later the Gemara was added as
additional material and was written between 200CE and 500CE. Finally
around 500 CE this and other material were included in the encyclopedic
Talmud consisting of 5,894 pages and there are many further works in
addition to these as well.

The point of saying this is that in the absence of any interpretation
via an oral tradition, it is difficult to understand what was meant.
For example, the classic "eye for an eye" quote (Exodus 21:24 and
Leviticus 24:17-22) which Christians interpret literally has no such
interpretation in Judaism. No Jewish court has ever blinded or
otherwise inflicted physical injury as revenge or retribution. The
phrase is interpreted to mean what the perpetrator of a crime deserves,
not what he should get. Another example is that despite the existence
of capital punishment in the Hebrew Bible, Jewish courts rarely issued
the death penalty
as extremely strict conditions were imposed on who was considered valid
witnesses and other requirements which were difficult to meet in
practice.

Other examples proving the existence of the Oral Law within the Bible
relate to the fact that many terms, procedures, rights and
responsibilites are assumed to be common knowledge within the text. A
common expression is "as I have commanded you" but it doesn't say
anywhere what the command was, except that it known from the Oral part
of the Bible.

The Talmud derives its authority from the Torah on which it is based..

> The
> supremacy of the Talmud over the Bible in the Israeli state may also
be seen
> in the case of the Black Ethiopian Jews. Ethiopians have more
knowledge of
> the Old Testament than the Israelis.

That's not true. In fact they have less knowledge of the Bible because
they lost the Oral Law somewhere in their past and thus did not have
complete knowledge of the Bible because the Oral Law is just as much a
part of the Bible as the Written Law. How for example would they be
expected to perform duties described in the written Bible described in
the form "as I have commanded you" where no where else in the written
Bible does it give what these instructions are? The instructions were
given in the Oral part of the Bible.

Also, it is clear from the Talmud that the Torah law takes precedence
over the Talmud: "When doubt arises in a Rabbinical law we are
naturally lenient; but where the law is Scriptural we are strict."
Pesahim, Soncino Edition, p. 42, footnote (2)

>
>     However, their religion is so ancient it pre-dates the Scribes
Talmud, of
> which they have no knowledge. According to the N.Y. Times of Sept.
29, 1992,
> p.4: "The problem is that Ethiopian Jewish tradition goes no further
than the
> Bible or Torah; the later Talmud and other commentaries that form the
basis
> of modern traditions never came their way." Because they don't
traffic in
> Talmudic traditions, the Black Ethiopians are discriminated against
and have
> been forbidden to perform marriages, funerals and other services in
the
> Israeli state.

Because the Ethiopian Jews stopped following the Oral Law at some point
and came to rely on only the Written Law (Bible) they stopped
practising certain aspects of Judaism since they did not have the full
knowledge required. The Talmud itself did not change the practice of
Judaism as is claimed. All it did was codify the knowledge that already
existed and had been handed down since the time of Moses. It still
would be handed down orally, had it not been for people trying to
murder all the Jews over the centuries. If it wasn't for that, there
would have been no need to write it down in the first place.

>
>     Rabbi Joseph D. Soloveitchik is regarded as one of the most
influential
> rabbis of the 20th century, the "unchallenged leader" of Orthodox
Judaism and
> the top international authority on halakha (Jewish religious law).
> Soloveitchik was responsible for instructing and ordaining more than
2,000
> rabbis, "an entire generation" of Jewish leadership.

So? What is your point?

>
>     N.Y. Times religion reporter Ari Goldman described the basis of
the
> rabbis authority: "Soloveitchik came from a long line of
distinguished
> Talmudic scholars...Until his early 20s, he devoted himself almost
> exclusively to the study of the Talmud...He came to Yeshiva
University's
> Elchanan Theological Seminary where he remained the pre-eminent
teacher in
> the Talmud...He held the title of Leib Merkin professor of
Talmud...sitting
> with his feet crossed in front of a table bearing an open volume of
the
> Talmud."

So? What is your point?

>
>     Nowhere does Goldman refer to Soloveitchiks knowledge of the
Bible as the
> basis for being one of the top world authorities on Jewish law. The
rabbis
> credentials are predicated upon his mastery of the Talmud. All other
studies
> are clearly secondary. Britains Jewish Chronicle of March 26, 1993
states
> that in religious school (yeshiva), Jews are "devoted to the Talmud
to the
> exclusion of everything else."

So? What is your point?

>
>     The Scribes claim the Talmud is partly a collection of traditions
Moses
> gave them in oral form. These had not yet been written down in Jesus
time.
> Christ condemned the traditions of the Mishnah (early Talmud) and
those who
> taught it (Scribes and Pharisees), because it nullified Biblical
teachings.

The Talmud does not nullify any Biblical teachings but clarifies them.
The Bible has two parts, the written part and the oral part. The oral
part is what is expounded upon in the Talmud. It is interesting that
Jesus is claimed to have condemned the Talmud since many of his
teachings and some of the "New Testament" are based directly on the
Oral Teachings.

>
>     The famous warning of Our Lord about the tradition that voids
Scripture
> (Mark 7:13), which is regularly used against Catholicism by
Protestants, is
> actually a direct reference to the Talmud or more properly, the
forerunner of
> the first part of it, the Mishnah, which existed in oral form during
Christ*s
> lifetime, before being committed to writing. All of Mark chapter 7,
from
> verse one through thirteen, represents Our Lord*s pointed
condemnation of the
> Mishnah.

>
>     Unfortunately, due to the abysmal ignorance of our day, the
widespread
> Christian notion is that the Old Testament is the supreme book of
Judaism.
> But this is not so. The Pharisees teach for doctrine the commandments
of
> rabbis, not God; the Talmudic commentary on the Bible is their
supreme law
> and not the Bible itself. That commentary does indeed, as Jesus said,
void
> the laws of God, not uphold them. As a reader of Talmud (in the
rabbinically
> authorized Soncino version) I know this to be true.
>

The Torah ("Old Testament") was given to Jews in two parts, the written
part which is commonly known to Christians, and also the Oral part,
which was codified in the Talmud. A proper understanding of the Torah
requires knowledge of both parts. Indeed, the written Torah itself
alludes to the presence of the Oral part.

>     There is a small Jewish sect which makes considerable effort to
eschew
> Talmud and adhere to the Old Testament alone. These are the Karaites,
a most
> hated and severely persecuted group within Judaism.

It is not true that they are "hated and severely persecuted". The only
concern with Karaites is that they do not practice normative Judaism as
revealed in the Torah (like some other contemporary Jewish groups).

>
>     To the Mishnah the rabbis later added the Gemara (rabbinical
> commentaries). Together these comprise the Talmud. There are two
versions,
> the Jerusalem Talmud and the Babylonian Talmud. The Babylonian Talmud
is
> regarded as the authoritative version:  "The authority of the
Babylonian
> Talmud is also greater than that of the Jerusalem Talmud. In cases of
doubt
> the former is decisive." (R.C. Musaph-Andriesse, From Torah to
Kabbalah: A
> Basic Introduction to the Writings of Judaism, p. 40)

This is essentially true.

>
>     This study is based on the Jewish-authorized, English translation
of the
> Babylonian Talmud: the Soncino edition. Every selection we cite is
documented
> directly from the text of the authoritative Soncino Talmud. We have
published
> herein the authenticated sayings of the Jewish Talmud. Look them up
for
> yourself. To verify the Talmud passages cited, refer to the Soncino
edition
> Talmud, which may be found in large university and seminary
libraries. The
> Soncino Talmud may also be purchased from book dealers.

Of course, as will be revealed in the following analysis of the posted
material, it is full of gross mistranslations, fabrications and out of
context "quotes". And of course, no translation will ever capture the
real flavour of what is being said. For proper study of the Talmud, an
excellent knowledge of Aramaic and Hebrew is required.

 Translations: The
> translators of the Talmud sometimes translate the Hebrew word goyim
> (Gentiles) under any number of terms such as heathen, Cuthean,
Egyptian,
> idolater etc. But these are actually references to Gentiles (all
non-Jews).
> See for example footnote 5 of the Soncino edition Talmud: Cuthean
(Samaritan)
> was here substituted for the original goy... Christians are sometimes
> referred to by the code word Min or Minim.

Only Jewish Christians are referred to as minim or "heretics". Gentile
Christians are not.

>
>     It is the standard disinformation practice of the Pharisees to
deny the
> existence of the following Talmudic scriptures and to claim they are
the
> fabrications of "anti-Semites." This disinformation can only obtain
cachet
> among those too lazy to go to the English-language books of the
Talmud and
> look these passages up for themselves. Hebrew University Professor
emeritus
> Israel Shahak in his monumental 1994 work, "Jewish History, Jewish
Religion"
> (London:Pluto Press), has confirmed the malice and racism contained
in Talmud.

Here we have the bizarre claim of the "Christian Identity" movement
that the modern day Jews are "Pharisees" and thus not "true" Jews of
the Bible... And Professor Shahak is well-known as a self-hating Jew
and for his vitriolic attacks against Judaism. He can hardly be cited
as an authoritative source on Jewish belief.

>
>     Like Prof. Shahak, we publish the following educational material
in the
> hope of liberating people, both Jewish and non-Jewish, from the
> superstitions, hate-mongering and barbarities of Talmud. The
implementation
> of Talmudic philosophy has caused untold suffering throughout history
and now
> in occupied Palestine it is used as a justification for the mass
murder of
> Palestinian civilians.

Professor Shahak is a self-hating Jew who will go to any lengths to
discredit his own religion. Unfortunately, his understanding of his own
religion is not valid or authentic and he is certainly not a
theologian.

Also, rather than causing "untold suffering", the teachings of the
Talmud for much of the basis for the legal system and common law in
most civilised societies.

> Some Teachings of the Talmud:
>
>     Erubin 21b: Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will
be
> punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

The correct quote is as follows:

"Whoever [rebelliously] breaches the words [legislative enactments] of
the Scribes [early legal authorities who had legislative
power] is liable for death [at the hands of Heaven]... whoever mocks
the words of the Wise is sentenced to [divine]
punishment [in the afterlife] by boiling excrement."

The Written Torah bids Jews to follow legislation enacted by the
Sanhedrin (council of sages). This legislation was designed to
prevent Jews from violating Written Torah laws and to organize life in
a manner befitting a holy people. Rebellion against this
legislation was naturally seen in an extremely negative light.

As a result it is no wonder that the Talmud expresses itself in the
strongest terms against those who systematically and
rebelliously violate the rabbinical enactments promulgated by the
ancient Sanhedrin. On the other hand one who violates a
Written Torah commandment usually does so not as an act of rebellion
but because he has succumbed to a momentary sinful
impulse.

Phrases such as 'is liable for death' are used to indicate a negative
attitude to a certain form of behavior and refer to a penalty
imposed by Heaven and not to punishment inflicted by a religious court.
In fact such expressions are not usually meant to be
taken literally as implying that Heaven will punish someone with early
death for his sin. Some commentators note that any
unfortunate occurrence such as sickness or poverty may be seen as
implementation of a 'death' penalty by Heaven. Also, the
judgment of Heaven may be mitigated by factors such as repentance.

Another example of the use of this type of phrase is found at Shabbat
114a where "R. Yochanan said that every scholar who has filth on his
cloak is liable for death", and there are many other similar examples.
It is important to emphasize that the such statements are in no way
meant to suggest implementation of a death penalty by a human court.
(In fact the death penalty was so rare in rabbinic times that the
Talmud states that "A Sanhedrin that gives a death penalty once in
seven years is called 'destructive'; Rabbi Eliezer ben Azaria said
[that the reference is to a Sanhedrin which gives a death sentence]
once in seventy
years." (Makot 7a).)

Similarly the term 'boiling excrement' is another example of the
metaphorical style used by the Talmud to express disapproval of
negative behavior (I believe that in ancient times animal excrement was
used for industrial purposes and the term may not have quite the same
connotation it has nowadays).

>
>     Moed Kattan 17a : If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to
a city
> where he is not known and do the evil there.

The correct translation should be: "R. Elayi says: 'if a man sees that
the evil urges is overcoming him he should go to a place where no one
knows him, dress in black, cover himself in black and do what his heart
wills and not desecrate the name of Heaven in public".

The commentators on the page immediately point out that the statement
means that in the process of leaving his town, entering a strange
place, dressing in black and covering himself in black, a person's evil
urge will be broken and he will have no desire to do evil; i.e., he may
do as his heart wills since his heart will no longer wish to do evil
(several commentators note that this interpretation is stated
explicitly in a parallel passage of agada in the Talmud Yerushalmi).

Other commentators point out that the statement does not refer to an
evil urge to commit a sin but rather the urge to behave improperly,
thereby desecrating G-d's name. When a Torah scholar acts in a manner
that is not becoming to one who has studied Torah (for example, when he
speaks with undue severity) he desecrates G-d's name because he is
expected to conform to a higher standard of behavior. According to
these commentators this  passage is directed at these scholars; if they
feel the urge to act on the level of the common person they should do
so where they are not known as Torah scholars and thus avoid the
desecration of G-d's name.

>
>     Baba Mezia 114a-114b. Non-Jews are Not Human. Only Jews are human
("Only
> ye are designated men")

In Numbers 19:14 the Written Torah states that "If [a] man [person]
dies inside a tent ...." and the passage goes on to describe
the laws of ritual impurity caused by the corpse.

The sages considered whether this law applied to all men or only to
Jews. It might have been thought that the word 'man' or
'person' would indicate a reference to both Jews and non-Jews. However
the Oral tradition made it clear that when the Torah
uses the word 'man' or 'person' in connection with legal restrictions
the reference is usually to Jews and not to non-Jews who
are not bound by Torah law.

The Talmudic passage states in connection with this matter: "'... My
sheep ... you are men' (Ez. 34:31); you [Jews] are called
'adam' [men], and the idol worshippers are not called 'adam' [men]".

Commentators explain that the use of the word 'men' [adam] in this
passage is similar to the use of the word 'person' in modern
national law codes. When such a law code uses the term 'person' the
reference is not universal but is restricted to those
persons who are bound by that national law code.

Similarly in the case at hand the laws of ritual impurity apply only to
Jews and not to non-Jews. The passage should thus be
understood as follows:

"It is a general rule of interpretation in the Torah that for the
purpose of legal enactments the term 'person' refers to Jews, who
are bound by the law, and does not refer to non-Jews who are not bound
by the law". It is interesting to note that the proof
text is taken from Ezekiel Chapter 34 in which Israel is compared to
sheep.

Another interpretation given by commentators is that when the context
is negative (as in a discussion of ritual impurity caused
by a corpse or the commission of a sin) the word 'man' is used to refer
to Jews only (in this
way not bringing shame on the name 'Israel'), but when the context is
positive then the word includes all of mankind.

With this understanding the Talmudic passage should be understood as
follows:

"It is a general rule of interpretation in the Torah that in a negative
context such as that of ritual impurity the word 'man' refers to Jews
only, and not to non-Jews".

This sentence appears three times in the Talmud; the reference in Baba
Mezia 114a is tangential and therefore the subject is not developed at
any length. An honest reader would follow the cross-references to the
other locations and note that in Kerithoth 6b the Talmud points out
that the application of this principle of interpretation is
questionable in any event.

Yevamot 61a is the third place in which this rule of interpretation is
mentioned and in this location the commentators on the page also point
out that this rule of interpretation has very limited use. They
specifically cross reference to the Talmudic statements in Avoda Zara
3a and Sanhedrin 59a which compare non-Jews who engage in Torah study
to the High Priest.

>. Also see Kerithoth 6b under the sub-head, "Oil of
> Anointing" and Berakoth 58a in which Gentile women are designated
animals
> ("she-asses").

The prophet Ezekiel (Ez. 23:20) says "... for their flesh is as the
flesh of donkeys ..." in reference to the nations surrounding Israel.
The prophet is castigating Judea for forming covenants with foreign
nations and metaphorically describes this process as Judea desiring
intimacy with donkeys.

The use of this designation by the prophet is consistent with biblical
poetic style. See, for example, Gen. 49:14 where Issachar is denoted a
"donkey"; or Gen. 49:17 where Dan is described as a "snake"; or Deut.
33:17 where Joseph is described as a "cow" etc.

The Talmud at Berakoth 58a relates how R. Shila had a Jew punished by
flogging for having illicit sexual relations with a non-Jew. The person
who was flogged used his influence with local imperial officials and
tried to have them execute R. Shila.

These officials asked R. Shila to explain why he had ordered the
flogging and he answered that the punishment had been meted out to
someone who had had relations with a donkey. The exchange ended with
the officials being so impressed with R. Shila that they extended R.
Shila's legal powers and granted him the right to impose capital
punishment.

The person who had been flogged accused R. Shila of being a liar, to
which R. Shila answered by quoting Ezekiel; that is, he claimed that
his statement was true on the same metaphorical level as that used by
the prophet Ezekiel and therefore did not fall into the category of an
outright lie. (In our own day we might find a rough parallel if a
preacher were to accuse an errant member of his flock of lusting after
animal flesh.)

This verse from Ezekiel is found in a few other Talmudic discussions.
It is instructive to note that in Arakhin 19b the verse is applied to
Jews to indicate that the density of human flesh and bone is similar to
that of animal flesh and bone, and in Yevamot 98a the verse is taken to
refer to a legal position which is lenient to converts to Judaism (in
the sense that they are considered newborns, and not related to their
former family members for purposes of legal strictures regarding
marriage laws). Similarly in
Berakhot 25b the Talmud specifically points out that the verse does not
refer to non-Jews.

>
>     Sanhedrin 58b: Jews are Divine. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a
Jew, THE
> GENTILE MUST BE KILLED. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

Misquote. The text doesn't say that he must be killed but that he's
worthy of death -- an idiomatic phrase referring to death by the hand
of god (struck by lightning etc.). That's because by hitting a man
(made in the image of God) you are marring the image of God. The same
is also said of Jews who simply raise their hand against others, by the
way.

>
>     Sanhedrin 57a: O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews.  A Jew need not pay a
Christian
> ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

It is certainly not "OK to cheat non-Jews". In the Tosefta Baba Kama
(10:8) we are taught: "It is more grievous to steal from a non-Jew than
from a Jew because of the desecration of G-d's name".

In Sanhedrin 57a the Talmud discusses the Noahide laws which are
binding on all non-Jews. It specifically examines the source of the
prohibition against holding back wages. Such practice is forbidden to
everyone - both Jew and non-Jew - but the biblical source of this
prohibition is different for Jews and non-Jews.

Jews are prohibited from holding back wages by specific verses in the
bible (Lev. 19:13; Deut. 24:14) which impose this prohibition only on
Jews. These verses specifically prohibit Jews from holding back wages
from anyone, whether Jew or non-Jew (Rambam, positive commandment
#200).

For non-Jews the biblical source for this prohibition is the verse
generally prohibiting non-Jews from stealing.

In this passage the Talmud examines the prohibition of withholding
wages with reference only to the scriptural passage prohibiting
non-Jews from such behavior. The proper translation of the passage is
this:

"holding back wages - a Cuthean [who does this] to a Cuthean -
prohibited [by the verse prohibiting non-Jews from stealing]; a Jew to
a Cuthean - permitted [by this verse, but prohibited by other verses
which specifically prohibit a Jew from holding back wages].

It may be noted that there are other situations where Jews are
forbidden to do something by one verse and Gentiles are forbidden the
same action by a different verse.

>
>     Baba Kamma 37b: Jews Have Superior Legal Status. "If an ox of an
> Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an
ox of a
> Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full."

The commentaries on the page explain that the reference is to
Canaanites who do not observe the Noachide laws but act as pirates and
are outside the community of civilized nations. According to their laws
no one is liable for damage committed by his animals. Since they do not
take the minimal steps necessary to guard their own animals from doing
damage to others the sages ruled that they too should be bound by their
own rules in this particular instance.

The passage of the Bible that is discussed here is Exodus 21:35. The
following is a quote from the Torah Temima, a famous commentary
published about a century ago: "Behold, this law referring to the
exemption of payment [in this case] ..... has been used by anti-Semites
to attack our ancient literature ... and this vicious claim is raised
by the haters of Israel in generation after generation, and the wise
men of Israel in each generation have explained that the intent of our
sages was to idol worshippers of
ancient times .... who are no longer found in modern times .... the
Talmud here explains this matter ... [it applies to those] who do not
keep the [seven Noachide commandments] but do the exact opposite, that
is, they do not have a legal system, they permit murder and
licentiousness, robbery ... etc. ... and all the modern nations deny
the rights of such wild people and expel them from the civilized
community .... and you will see that the Talmud itself makes an
exception from this rule to all nations which accept the Noachide
commandments which are the majority of the nations at this time [the
Torah Temima commentary was written about a century ago] and their
status is the same as that of Jews for these laws [and this matter is
so clear and obvious that] no further discussion is necessary."

Similar sentiments were expressed by the Meiri about 700 years ago; in
his commentary on this passage he pointed out that the law applied to
nations who did not care if their animals damaged the property of
others and did not apply to the nations of his time.

>
>     Baba Mezia 24a: Jews May Steal from Non-Jews.  If a Jew finds an
object
> lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned.
(Affirmed also
> in Baba Kamma 113b).

Jews may not steal from non-Jews. In the Tosefta Baba Kama (10:8) we
are taught: "It is more grievous to steal from a non-Jew than from a
Jew because of the desecration of G-d's name".

The passage at Baba Mezia 24a deals with a specific religious
commandment requiring Jews to collect lost items, such as stray
animals, care for them, declare them to be lost, and hold them until
the loser comes to identify and claim them. This rule is not universal;
there are times when the loser is deemed to have renounced his
ownership of the lost property and then the rule is 'finders-keepers'.

Jewish law requires Jews to be bound by the 'law of the land' in civil
and commercial matters. Where the law of the land requires the return
of lost objects, Jews are bound by that law as are all residents of
that land. However, in pagan cities the general rule was
'finders-keepers' and the question discussed by this Talmudic passage
is whether in towns with a majority pagan population (where the general
rule is 'finders-keepers') Jews are required to return lost objects to
Jews, and the answer is negative.

The statement made in Baba Mezia 24a is the following: "Come and listen
[these words introduce a statement which will be analyzed in detail] if
he finds a lost article in a place where the majority are Israelites,
he must announce [that he found a lost article and return it to its
owner]; if the majority are Canaanites [and the general rule is
finders-keepers], he need not announce [that he found a lost article or
return it to its previous owner]".

This discussion is amplified in Baba Kama 113b where the discussion
concludes that even if there is no general religious obligation to
return lost objects to heathens in cases where 'finders-keepers' is the
law, nevertheless it is required in cases where failure to return lost
objects might lead to a profanation of G-d's name.

"We find that it is forbidden to steal even from idol worshippers and
those who do not have any kind of legal system ..... but one is not
required to expend efforts to find and return their lost articles, and
in fact one who simply finds their lost articles is not required to
return them .... since return of lost articles is an act of
extraordinary kindness [in places where 'finders-keepers' is the rule]
and we are not required to show this extraordinary kindness to those
who live without laws, but in any event ... in the case of a lost
article it should be returned if th

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 13:31:22 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Jones wrote:

Absolutely nothing worth commenting on. Fancy that!

Philip Mathews

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=796
> Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
> obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
> we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:58:55 -0700
From: "Andy" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: <13texan@egroups.com>

I completely agree, that is why I just delete Mathews before reading
whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one is Gorman, that one is an
automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios, Andy
Subject: [13texan] More Talmudic Blaspheme......
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:10:32 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    There are three main branches of the Jewish religion: Orthodox, Reform
and Conservative.  The Orthodox is the traditional source of Judaism and is
considered to be at it's heart. Very similar to the Orthodox Judaism is the
Conservative branch, but it offers some greater leeway in observance of the
stringent Jewish laws. more modernistic, the Reform movement is far less
bound by Pharisaic traditions than either of the other branches. The
Encyclopedia Judaic describes the current religious picture of the nation of
Israel:
    There are few Reform or Conservative congregations in the State of
Israel. Orthodoxy is the official religious position in Israel with the
majority of the Rabbis belonging to the old school talmudic jurists. (
"Judaism." Encyclopedia Judaica,
Page 396)
    The tendency within the Jewish Theological Seminary [in New York] has
been emphatically toward a more orthodox stance than exist within it in the
previous generation. ("Conservative Judaism,"Enc. Encyclopedia Judaica, pg.
906)
    The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia is clear on the fact that the Talmud,
not the Torah or the old Testament, is the book of choice for Judaism.
    Thus the ultimate authority for the Orthodoxy is the Babylonian Talmud.
The Bible ranks second to it in reality, if not in theory. (Universal Jewish
Encyclopedia,
"Authority" pg.637)
    The Talmud makes it clear that Jesus is regarded as a "charlatan,"
"magician,"
"seducer," and "deceiver."  The Talmud also says that Jesus was strangled in
a pit of  dung and that the Jews hated him so much they executed him four
different ways! Calling the Holy Bible's account of the crucifixion a lie.
Portraying Christ as the Bastard son of a Harlot and even suggests that he
was a Gentile.
    The Talmud, in some passages even boast that the Jews alone and not the
Romans had executed Christ for his idolatry. This Unholy wretched book full
of blasphemy even states that a Jewish magician brought Christ up from the
dead to
punish him by boiling him in hot semen.
    Here are some more quotes from the Book of Satan, The Talmud....

*** Balaam [Jesus] fornicated with his jackass. (Sanhedrin 105a-b)
*** Jewish priest raised Balaam [Jesus] from the dead and punished him
in boiling semen.(57a Gitten)
*** She was a descendant princes and governors [ the Virgin Mary] played the
harlot with a carpenter (Sanhedrin 106a)
*** Balaam [Jesus] was lowered into a pit of dung up to his armpits. Then a
hard cloth was placed within a soft one, wound round his neck, and the tow
ends pulled in opposite directions until he was dead. (Sanhedren 52b)
Also in Sanhedren 106a it says that he was executed in four different ways.
*** Hast thou heard how old Balaam [Jesus] was?...bloody and deceitful men
shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or
thirty-four years old.
(Sanhedren 106)
*** Those who read the uncanonical books [New Testament] will have no portion
of the world to come. (Sanhedren 90a)
*** Jews must destroy the books of the Christians. (Shabbath116a)

Because I expose these Jewish lies in their unholy book I am the Liar. I am
the Hatemonger. Any Christian who would read the verses from the blasphemous
Talmud and not be angered needs to even look at himself. I do not blame any
Jew ,for the revelations of word such as these that I have exposed, to be
angry and afraid at the same time. The cursed Talmud will be destroyed and
God's word will last forever.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 17:20:07 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Andy wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=799

> I completely agree, that is why I just delete Mathews before reading
whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one is Gorman, that one is an
automatic delete as well.

In other words you find obnoxious anyone who disabuses you of ignorant
prejudices. Automatic delete will not help you when you face your maker!

Philip Mathews

 Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Colleen Jones
>   To: 13texan@egroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53 PM
>   Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
>
>
> Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
> obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
> we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.
>
>
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 18:13:38 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead  wrote:

More lies about the Talmud. Let’s look!

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=792

> THE TALMUD
>                    2 of 28
>
>     Insults Against Blessed Mary Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus mother
was a
> whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played
the harlot
> with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated
that in
> the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother,
"Miriam
> the hairdresser," had sex with many men.

No such text exists in the standard Talmuds. There is reference to a
certain Ben Stada who according to R. Eliezer brought knowledge of
witchcraft out of Egypt by making marks on his body. The other sages
dismissed Ben Stada as a fool. In some versions of the Talmud there is
statement to the effect that this person's mother (Miriam Magdala) was
not faithful to her husband. Some commentators specifically point out
for identification purposes that this person was executed in Lod and is
not  identifiable with anyone mentioned in Christian traditions. The
Talmud also notes that the name Miriam Magdala was a very
common one.

>
> Gloats over Christ Dying Young A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats
over the
> early age at which Jesus died: "Hast thou heard how old Balaam
(Jesus)
> was?-He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written,
Bloody
> and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that
he was
> thirty-three or thirty-four years old

The Talmud states that the wicked Bilaam (Numbers 23:24) died after
living only half his allotted time span, in accordance with the
statement in Psalms 55:24, that the wicked do not survive half their
allotted life span. The commentary of Rashi makes it clear that the
reference is to the biblical Bilaam.

>
>     Sanhedrin 43a . SAYS JESUS WAS A SORCERER.  Jesus ("Yeshu" and in
> footnote #6, Yeshu "the Nazarene") was executed because he practiced
sorcery.

Standard versions of the Talmud do not mention anyone with this name.
There is a version which mentions Yeshu HaNotzri who was executed and
who had five students who were also executed. The description of this
Yeshu HaNotzri indicates that he was executed by stoning and that for
forty days before his execution announcements were made looking for
evidence in his favor. The Talmud also indicates that this Yeshu
HaNotzri was extremely friendly with the local Roman government. The
passage describes the way in which the followers of this Yeshu claim
that their names (Mathai, Natai, Netzer, Boni and Toda)
give them immunity from the death penalty and the way they were
answered (by passages from the bible connecting their names with death
or execution). As the description of the person involved does not fit
the descriptions given in Christian traditions it would appear that it
is not referring to the same person.

>
>     Horrible Blasphemy of Our Lord Gittin 57a . Says Jesus ( see
footnote #4)
> is being boiled "hot excrement".

"Onkelos the son of Kalonikos the nephew of Titus wished to convert."
The Talmud relates that he used witchcraft to raise Titus, his wicked
uncle, from the dead and asked him whether he should convert to
Judaism. His uncle was so filled with hatred against the Jews that he
advised his nephew to be hostile to them, despite the fact that they
are so close to G-d and despite the fierce punishment he endured after
his death for his own hostility to Israel. Onkelos then called up
Bilaam who had similar comments. Then he raised up 'the sinners of
Israel' who advised him to join Israel since anyone who troubled the
Jews
is considered as if he troubled G-d. Onkelos asked what punishment the
sinners of Israel had to endure and was told they were judged in
boiling excrement as is fitting for all those who ridicule the words of
the sages.

It may indeed be the case that there are manuscripts which name Yeshu
HaNotzri as one of the sinners of Israel in the context of this passage
but it is not clear who that person was (see item [CLAIM 34] above).
More generally it may be said that while Judaism differs sharply from
Christianity in many matters of theology and interpretation of
historical events, attacking the founder of the Christian faith as a
wicked person is not a central or even peripheral element of Jewish
theology.

>
>     Sanhedrin 43a . Jesus deserved execution: "On the eve of the
Passover,
> Yeshu was hanged...Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defense
could be
> made? Was he not a Mesith (enticer)?"

In the common versions of the Talmud this quote does not exist.
Generally speaking the person Yeshu referred to in Talmudic texts
cannot be absolutely identified with anyone described in Christian
tradition.
>
>     Attacks Christians and their Books Rosh Hashanah 17a . Christians
> ("minim") and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be
punished
> there for all generations (see footnote #11 for the definition of
minim).

At Rosh Hashanah 17a the Talmud quotes agadic passages regarding
punishment after death. The passages describe those who will undergo a
short period of punishment, those who will suffer for a longer period
and those who will suffer eternally. In this latter group are Jewish
heretics of various categories, the religious leaders of idol
worshipping religions, those who abuse their authority and those who
mislead the public and cause them to sin, such as Jeroboam.

With respect to the religious leaders of the pagans, Meiri, one of the
most famous commentators on the Talmud wrote (about 700 years ago):
"... we have already explained that ..... [the references are to] the
nations of long ago who were not bound by the ways of religion but were
deeply involved in the worship of idols and stars ..." (Meiri at AZ
26).

In one version of this text this group includes Jews who have betrayed
their own religion. According to the Ein Yaakov these apostates are the
Sadduccees. In the uncensored text of Rashi (the prime commentator on
the Talmud) these apostates are described as the students of Yeshu
HaNotzri who have twisted the words of the Torah. This version is not
found in standard Rashi commentaries on the Talmud. See comments to
item [CLAIM 35].

The teaching is directed against Jews who become apostates, not against
Christians. In fact the Talmud makes it plain in another passage
(Shabbat 116a) that there is a significant difference between those who
knowingly choose heresy and those who are born into it and commentators
also emphasize this important distinction.
>
>     Sanhedrin 90a . Those who read the New Testament (uncanonical
books, see
> footnote #9) will have no portion in the world to come.

In this passage Rabbi Akiva held that those who read 'external books'
forfeit their place in the World to Come. The Talmud discusses (San
100b) the exact meaning of 'external books' and suggests they refer to
the books  of the Sadduccees. (The books of the new Christian religion
did not exist at the time of R. Akiva, certainly not in their present
form, but it is quite likely that the reference is to all works which
interpret the Written Torah in a manner opposed to that transmitted by
the sages.)

Commentators point out that the term 'reading' is meant to be
understood as reading these works on a permanent basis, and not as
reviewing them for a legitimate purpose.

>
>     Shabbath 116a (p. 569). Jews must destroy the books of the
Christians,
> i.e. the New Testament. See footnote #6.

The Talmud discusses the prohibition against carrying on the Sabbath in
certain areas and deals with the question of saving Torah scrolls from
a fire in such areas. In certain cases it is permitted to save a Torah
scroll from a fire by carrying it on the Sabbath and the Talmud
discusses whether this rule applies to Torah scrolls written by Jewish
heretics ('minim'). The passage reports a comment from Rabbi Tarfon
that if these scrolls came to his hands he would burn them despite the
fact that G-d's name is written in them.

This passage has been understood by the codifiers of Jewish law to deal
with a Torah scroll containing G-d's name when the scribe who wrote
such name had heretical thoughts when he wrote G-d's name. Where the
intention was idolatrous then the Torah scroll should be burned. There
are stringent rules regarding who may write a Torah scroll and how it
is to be written. It is thanks to the great care taken by scribes
throughout the ages that we have accurate bibles today. If a Torah
scroll was not written with idolatrous intentions then it can be
retained and read privately no matter who wrote it (Aruch HaShulchan YD
281).

>
>     Israel Shahak reports that the Zionists burned hundreds of New
Testament
> books in Occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History,
Jewish
> Religion, p. 21).

This 'report' has nothing to do with the Talmud. Israel Shahak is a
contemporary Israeli writer well known for his virulent hatred of
Judaism and Zionism. His writings are featured on anti-Semitic web
sites such as Radio Islam.

>
>     Sick and Insane Teachings Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew
should
> take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it
with honey
> and eat it.

In Gittin 69a the Talmud
discusses the medical practices and beliefs of the time of the Talmud.
The commentaries (Tos at MK 11a) make it clear to any reader that such
remedies have not been held to be effective or applicable for many
centuries. To the extent that these remedies are not metaphorical
agadic passages they were included in the Talmud to show that the sages
were well-versed with the medical knowledge of their age, and not as
religiously sanctioned medicine. In fact when it became apparent that
such remedies had no healing powers it became forbidden by Jewish law
to use them.
>
>     Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a
holy
> way is given.

The Jews believed you should try to do everything in a way that was
pleasing to God. Why is that "sick and insane"?
>
>     Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all
the
> animals in the Garden of Eden.

This passage of the Talmud describes various teachings in the name of
Rabbi Elazar on the importance of marriage and the great merit of
having a good wife. Rabbi Elazar shows how these ideas are contained in
the biblical text (Gen. 3:20-23). Verse 23 reads "This time it is bone
of my bones and flesh of my flesh" and Rabbi Elazar states that since
the verse teaches us that 'this time' Adam found a mate, there is an
implication that there were previous times when he did not find a mate,
and he states that Adam "came on" to all the animals but his "mind was
not satisfied" until he "came on" Eve. In Hebrew the term "came on" is
often used to describe intercourse and this is the simplistic literal
translation of this passage.

This passage is a classical example of agadic literature and must be
understood metaphorically (as the commentators point out). One
commentator (Anaf Yosef) suggests that this agada teaches the
importance of marriage. He explains that Adam reflected that the
purpose of animal mating is primarily for the propagation of the animal
species. Adam's "mind was not satisfied" with this concept of mating
because, as the commentator explains, "... the mating of a man is
different [from that of animals], for a man who lives with a woman not
only benefits the species [by reproduction] but also benefits his own
body and
soul ..." in accordance with the Talmudic teaching that a man who lives
without a wife lives without Torah and without the closeness of the
Divine Presence. Adam was satisfied only when he found a mate with whom
he could have a relationship that transcended an animal relationship.
>
>     Yebamoth 63a . Declares that agriculture is the lowest of
occupations.

Ezekiel 27:28 states that the seamen of Tyre will 'descend' from their
ships to the land. Rabbi Elazar noticed that this verse could be
interpreted to mean that working the land is the lowest of all
occupations. Commentators explain Rabbi Elazar's comment in different
manners. One explains that the verse teaches that the worst and lowest
form of slavery is the slavery of a field worker. Another explains that
in the future there will be special blessings attached to agricultural
work and everyone will abandon all other work in order to work in
agriculture and participate in these special blessings (as described in
Zecharia
8:12). Another commentator notes that in fact agricultural work is the
work that is best suited to appreciation of G-d's bountiful mercy and
divine providence and that the term 'lowest' of occupations means that
it is the occupation which is most suited to the development of the
trait of humility. (Eitz Yosef)
>
>     Sanhedrin 55b . A JEW MAY MARRY A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL
(specifically,
> three years "and a day" old).

It is the manner of the Talmud to examine extreme theoretical cases in
order to precisely define and delineate legal concepts. Such study is
mandated because the laws are part of the Written and Oral Torah, not
necessarily because they have practical application.

There are different legal consequences arising from an act of
intercourse (related to personal status, punishment for rape, property
rights etc.) and the Talmud investigates whether such an act committed
on a baby girl has the status of intercourse or not. There is an
ancient tradition that states that if the girl is older than the age of
three then an act of intercourse was committed; before that age, such
an act does not have the status of sexual intercourse for legal
purposes (it may be an act of assault, of course).

The passage in question states as follows: "A girl of three years and a
day is [capable of being] married by an act of intercourse ..." and the
Talmud continues to list further legal consequences of an act of
intercourse (laws of personal status, property etc.).

The reference to marriage refers to a case in which the father of the
girl delivers his daughter to a man with the intention that he create a
marriage bond with his daughter by having relations with her. From a
legal point of view this procedure creates a marriage with all the
legal consequences that flow therefrom. This is a legal conclusion
which has nothing to do with rabbinic endorsement of such practices or
with the number of such occurrences in history.

In fact the rabbis strongly opposed formation of the marriage bond by
intercourse (at any age) and punished those who acted in such manner
(Kidushin 12b). They further taught that the father's right to marry
off his daughter was to be used for her benefit. The age and manner of
marriage is to a large extent a societal variable but at Kidushin 41a
the rabbis taught: "It is forbidden for a man to betroth his daughter
while she is young [but rather he should wait] till she has grown and
says 'This is the one I want [to marry]" and this teaching is repeated
elsewhere in the Talmud.
>
>     Sanhedrin 54b . A JEW MAY HAVE SEX WITH A CHILD AS LONG AS THE
CHILD IS
> LESS THAN NINE YEARS OLD.

The discussion here revolves around the age at which a male child is
capable of having relations that have the full legal ramifications and
penalties of intercourse. The entire discussion is related to an
analysis of the penalty for such action (which could be a capital
offense), and the passage states: "intercourse with a child of nine and
a day is not the same as that with a child of nine". As mentioned, this
statement is made in the context of the nature of the penalty to be
applied, and whether it is of a capital nature or not. See also the
remarks in item [CLAIM 45].
>
>     Kethuboth 11b . "WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A
LITTLE (three
> year old) GIRL IT IS NOTHING BECAUSE HER VIRGINITY WILL GROW BACK."

The statement is that "when a grown-up man has intercourse with a
little girl it is as nothing [in terms of creating a marriage bond with
the consequent legal ramifications] since for girls less [than three
years old] it is as if he put his finger into her eye ...". In other
words the act may be an act of assault but it does not create a legal
binding marriage unless the child is over the age of  three. See the
discussion under item
>
>     Yebamoth 59b . A woman who had intercourse with a beast is
eligible to
> marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also
eligible to
> marry a Jewish priest.

(a) It is the manner of the Talmud to explore every possibility
including the most bizarre and extreme cases. The requirement to study
the Torah includes examination of such extreme cases. Further,
exploration of the extreme cases allows precise delineation of delicate
legal principles. The passage in question deals with the law that
forbids a Jewish priest to marry a 'zonah', which is commonly but
incorrectly translated as a prostitute. The Talmud investigates whether
a woman who had
relations with an animal falls into this category.

(b) Th[e] [second] sentence does not exist in the standard versions of
the Talmud (it also does not exist in the Soncino translation which I
examined).

>
>     Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world
that
> Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with.

It hardly needs saying that the Talmud and Jewish law impose strict
codes of sexual behavior and the passage in question contains a major
discussion of the evils of prostitution.

In this passage the Talmud discusses the power of true repentance. It
points out that sometimes penitents who repent of terrible religious
sins such as idol worship die as a result of the remorse they feel over
their past. The Talmud recounts the story of a man called Eliezer Ben
Dordia (he is not mentioned anywhere else in the Talmud) who was in the
habit of visiting prostitutes. The Talmud relates the tremendous
internal struggle he undertook as part of his repentance and how he
died as a result of the remorse he felt. A 'bat kol' (an echo of a
heavenly voice) was heard declaring that "Rabbi" (a title of
distinguished
honor) Eliezer was invited to the World to Come, that is, his sins had
been forgiven through his powerful act of repentance and further he had
been posthumously awarded the title "Rabbi".

The greatest rabbi of the age, the redactor of the Mishna, Rebi, wept
when he heard this story and declared that there are some who gain
their share of the World to Come from years of constant effort, while
there are others like Eliezer Ben Dordia who gain their share in a
moment (of intense repentance), and not only is their repentance
effective but in Heaven they are referred to by the title of "Rabbi"
(as per the 'bat kol').
>
>     Hagigah 27a . States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.

At Hagiga 27a a passage of agada states that "the fire of Gehinom will
not overcome a scholar as it says ..." and the Talmud employs a
literary flourish based on a verse in Jeremiah to prove this point.
This statement is followed by another literary flourish from the Song
of Songs to prove that "The fire of Gehinom will not overcome the
sinners of Israel". These literary flourishes represent the optimistic
belief that even those who sin will, after a period of punishment, gain
their place in the World
to Come.

>
>     Baba Mezia 59b. A RABBI DEBATES GOD AND DEFEATS HIM. GOD ADMITS
THE RABBI
> WON THE DEBATE.

It is part of Jewish belief that G-d granted certain rights of biblical
interpretation and legislation to the sages and rabbis. At Baba Mezia
59b the Talmud makes the point that disputes concerning such
interpretation and legislation must be settled by majority vote in
accordance with the rabbinical understanding of Exodus 23:2 and not by
invoking claims of prophecy or special signs or miracles. This point is
made in the graphic and metaphorical manner of agadic literature by
describing a debate
on a point of law between Rabbi Eliezer (sole opinion) and the majority
of rabbis.

Rabbi Eliezer tried to prove his point by invoking various miracles and
even a 'bat kol' (heavenly echo) to show that G-d supported his
position, but nevertheless his opponents insisted that the rule of the
majority prevailed. The story ends by describing how Elijah the Prophet
noted that on that day G-d himself smiled and admitted that his sons
had defeated him in debate.

>
>     Gittin 70a . The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor
toilet)
> a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long
enough to
> walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that
time;
> if he does, his children will be epileptic."

Much of Judaism is concerned with separating the holy from the unholy.
This teaching is concerned with separating the (unholy) act of going to
the bathroom and the holy act of having relations with one's wife.
Similarly, it is forbidden to pray in the presence of excrement or bad
smells, etc..

>
>     Toilet and excrement obsessions are laced throughout Talmud and
were
> exhibited in Spielberg*s Schindlers List where the Hollywood director
shows a
> Jewish child jumping through a toilet seat in an outhouse and falling
into a
> pool of liquefied excrement. There the child meets two other Jewish
children
> partially immersed who inform the interloper that this cesspool is
their
> hiding spot exclusively and that he must find his own. These are the
kind of
> disgusting and morbid, psychotic images which Jewish kids are exposed
to
> constantly in the cinematic liturgy of Holocaustianity and for that
matter,
> in the Talmud as well.

If after seeing Schindler's list this guy can say anything against Jews
he is a psychopath. Actually, the poor boy who hid in the outhouse did
so in order to save his life from the "clean German anti-Semites" who
would not go close to the outhouse (they most probably suffer from OCD).

>     Gittin 69b (p. 329). To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh")
a Jew
> should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam,
but if he
> can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dogs excrement as it
loosens the
> limbs."

The true statement does not relate to a Jew rather to any human. This
is an extract from a scientific procedure of ancient gentile doctors
and this medicinal compound together with the rest of the other
remedies mentioned there have been eradicated hundreds of years ago
from Jewish law. By the way, the earth over there would be very rich in
vitamin B12 which originates from sludge.

>
>     Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to
pass
> between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm
trees.
> Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting
at a
> crossroads.

In this passage of agada the rabbis in Babylon refer to various
stratagems to avoid witchcraft. The passage also reports that the sages
in the Land of Israel did not concern themselves with some of these
matters. These stratagems were based on the prevailing beliefs at the
time and in at least one case a stratagem is reported in the name of a
non-Jew who was an instructress for local witches. The Talmud
summarizes the discussion with the following sentence: "As a general
rule, those who are worried about such things may be affected by them;
those who are not worried about them are not affected by them". The
Meiri, a
commentator who lived some seven centuries ago wrote at the beginning
of his commentary on this passage of agada as follows: "In a few places
we have explained that in those times people believed in chants .. [and
other similar beliefs] ... and the sages did not try to uproot these
beliefs unless they were related to idolatry ..... and certainly [they
did not try to uproot these beliefs] where the people were so
accustomed to them that they could derive strength or suffer weakness
on their account, and
we see this in this passage where it states 'those who are worried
about such things may be affected by them; those who are not worried
about them are not affected by them'".

Most modern readers would probably agree with the Meiri that this
passage expresses an important psychological truth about the power of
suggestion and mass belief.

>
>     Menahoth 43b-44a . A Jewish man is obligated to say the following
prayer
> every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a
slave.

Gentiles, women and slaves were not obligated under Old Testament lawn
to follow *all* the laws of the Torah. This was a prayer of thanks for
having been commanded to follow all of the law.

>
>     Shabbath 86a-86b . Because Jews are holy they do not have sex
during the
> day unless the house can be made dark. A Jewish scholar can have sex
during
> the day if he uses his garment like a tent to make it dark.

This relates to the sanctification of marriage and the requirement to
always be modest. Marital relations are considered an essential part of
Jewish married life and the husband must do his utmost to provide for
the needs of his wife. The requirement to do this in the dark ensures,
apart from modesty, that the physical appearance of the husband or wife
is unimportant and what matters is making the act itself holy and
satisfying for both people in order to improve the marital bond. The
leniency allowed for a scholar is because he is more likely to be aware
of these requirements. In any case, this leniency only applies to
scholars in extenuating circumstances.

>
>     Tall Tales of a Roman Holocaust Here are two early "Holocaust"
tales from
> the Talmud: Gittin 57b . Claims that four billion Jews were killed by
the
> Romans in the city of Bethar. Gittin 58a claims that 16 million
Jewish
> children were wrapped in scrolls and burned alive by the Romans.
(Ancient
> demography indicates that there were not 16 million Jews in the
entire world
> at that time, much less 16 million Jewish children or four billion
Jews).

These passages are part of agadic passages which are literary
flourishes. The exact quotes are as follows:

"The voice is the voice of Jacob, and the hands are the hands of Esau";
the [first] voice [in the passage is the voice of weeping of Jacob's
children and] refers to Hadrian Caesar who in Alexandria of Egypt
killed sixty multitudes upon sixty multitudes, twice as many as left
Egypt [at the time of the Exodus]; the [second] voice [of weeping] of
Jacob refers to Vespasian Caesar who in the city of Betar killed 400
multitudes, and some say 4000 multitudes, and 'the hands are the hands
of Esau' refers to the wicked Empire [of Rome] which destroyed our
House [i.e. the temple] and burned our sanctuary and exiled us from our
land; another interpretation that can be attached to this verse is
...."

".... there were 400 synagogues in the great city of Betar and in each
one there were 400 teachers of children and each one taught 400
children .... [and the enemy] wrapped them in their scrolls and set
them on fire".

It is clear we are dealing with literary flourishes and poetical forms
of expressing the magnitude and pain of a great tragedy and not with
evidence of a documentary nature based on painstaking research to which
we have become accustomed in modern times.

>
>     A Revealing Admission Abodah Zarah 70a . The question was asked
of the
> rabbi whether some wine stolen in Pumbeditha might be used or if it
was
> defiled, due to the fact that the thieves might have been Gentiles (a
Gentile
> touching wine would make the wine unclean). The rabbi says not to
worry, that
> the wine is permissible for Jewish use because the majority of the
thieves in
> Pumbeditha, the place where the wine was stolen, are Jews

Wine touched by a Gentile is neither defiled nor unclean. However, it
is forbidden for a Jew to drink it. In medieval times the story was
told of an anti-Semite who accused the Jewish doctor of a king of
secretly hating the king. The anti-Semite asked the king to offer his
doctor a glass of wine and see the Jew's reaction. When the Jew
declined to drink the wine the king demanded an explanation. The doctor
reportedly ordered a bowl of water to be brought and washed the king's
feet in it. Afterward he drank the water and explained that the
prohibition against drinking wine was a religious law and had nothing to
do with the wine becoming 'unclean' or any feeling of animosity toward
the king.

As far as the thieves of Pumbeditha, it is quite true that the majority
of thieves there were Jewish. The reason is that Pumbeditha was a town
which was almost entirely Jewish.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:38:25 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 03:58 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Andy wrote:
>    Mathews before reading  whatever he has to say. Another obnoxious one
>is Gorman, that one is an  automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios, Andy
>----- Original Message -----    From:    Colleen    Jones    To:
>13texan@egroups.com    Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53    PM
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of    Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
>                    Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews
>is the most obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay
>though that we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this
>individual.
>        eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
>www.egroups.com - Simplifying group    communications
>
>
>            eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications

Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.

Regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:47:47 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 12:38 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:

>Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time is
>much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord. That
>hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!
>
>Regards to a racist,
>
>Philip Mathews

What do you do, just sit at your computer waiting for just anyone to write
so you can make a fool of yourself. You're a tired man(?) Mathews, just read
the response you gave very carefully to yourself. Now, don't lie to us and
say
it makes perfect sense to you. Heck, you know what the scary part is, maybe
it
does make sense to you.

Take care now, get some rest,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud 2 By: Lewis Dent (Willie Martin)
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:54:33 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 06:13 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>Snead  wrote:

More of the truth about the talmud.

>
>More lies about the Talmud. Let’s look!

Yawn!!!



>Philip Mathews

Get some rest.

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Jewish Insecurity
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:58:51 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate, lies and
their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the non Jew
and even goes as far as to call them racial names. The old trick of the Jew
is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic. Then when
you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence. They
accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your remarks to twist
and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions that you ask.
    Not confrontational in a sense that they are insecure about themselves in
stature and looks. They are only users and feed on the weak and innocent.
They have been known to use  little children for their sexual pleasure
because a real adult is intimidating to them.
    To call others names and to question others intelligence is a way that
they try to elevate themselves above the reproach that they live under
because of the Talmud. This insecure race of people has done to much damage
to the Aryan people for me to be politically correct, So Jews, Do what you
did in Russia and make anti-semitism a capitol crime to shut my mouth.
To God be the Glory,
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:25:05 -0700
From: sneadster@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....
----

Please select one of the following:

   o Talmudic Rabbi
   o An Aryan race traitor
   o A Dung pivot man on a Camel Farm
   o confused gentile
   o a koshered pickled drunk
   o Willie Martin playing a trick on us
   o a Jew looking for attention
   o aFence riding pharisee/sadducee

by going to the following Web form:

   http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=936498305079

Thank you!

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:36:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=803
> At 03:58 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Andy wrote:

> >    Mathews before reading  whatever he has to say. Another
obnoxious one
> >is Gorman, that one is an  automatic delete as well. Vaya Con Dios,
Andy
> >----- Original Message -----    From:    Colleen    Jones    To:
> >13texan@egroups.com    Sent: Saturday, September 04, 1999 12:53
PM
> >Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of    Popes' thoughts on the Talmud

> >                    Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that
Mathews
> >is the most obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him
stay
> >though that we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this
> >individual.
> >        eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> >www.egroups.com - Simplifying group    communications
> >
> >
> >            eGroups.com home: http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan
> > www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications
>
>
> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.

Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember Eddie,
the lurkers just listen. I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the list
Eddie?

Philip Mathews

>
> Regards,
>
> Ed Kadach
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: View of the Jews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:44:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Eddie Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=804
> At 12:38 PM 9/4/99 -0700, philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> >Save you sanctimony, I notice your here responding. I'm sure my time
is
> >much better spent than yours, especially in the eyes of the Lord.
That
> >hate's gonna eat you up yet Eddie!
> >
> >Regards to a racist,
> >
> >Philip Mathews
>
>
>
> What do you do, just sit at your computer waiting for just anyone to
write
> so you can make a fool of yourself.

What is it you do? Are you not doing the same thing? It must be very
frustrating for you not being able to mount much of an attack of
defense for your hateful, stupid, mindless philosophy. Frankly Eddie,
you're just not good enough!

 You're a tired man(?) Mathews, just read
> the response you gave very carefully to yourself.

I'm not tired at all. How could I become tired jousting with your ilk?
I do a couple of other things while I'm exposing your nonsense. Don't
you ever have anything to say on the topics being discussed, or are you
too frightened of exposing your pathetic ignorance. Don't bother to
answer.

 Now, don't lie to us and
> say
> it makes perfect sense to you.

If it doesn't why are you not showing why? I know, that would mean
demonstrating some understanding of what is being discussed, and since
you don't have a clue, you'll just nibble around the edges like a
starving rodent hoping to get his full before someone swats him good.

 Heck, you know what the scary part is, maybe
> it
> does make sense to you.

Poor Eddie, couldn't win an argument with his mangy dog!

>
>
> Take care now, get some rest,

I'm taking care, and prisoners. Work on your excuses for St. Peter.

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

>
> Ed Kadach
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:47:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 07:36 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
>Kadach wrote:

>> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your side.
>
>Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember Eddie,
>the lurkers just listen.

I'll be darned. The lurkers just sit there and "listen". To what,
their hearts beating? Like I said you do need to rest.

"WE MUST SECURE THE EXISTENCE OF OUR PEOPLE AND A
                FUTURE FOR WHITE CHILDREN."

Regards,

Ed Kadach

 I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
>Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the list
>Eddie?
>
>Philip Mathews

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 19:58:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806

> The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate,
lies and
> their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the
non Jew
> and even goes as far as to call them racial names.

Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been exposed
as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews. Notice
he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because he knows
nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some website
because they said bad things about Jews.

 The old trick of the Jew
> is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic.

The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't discuss the
Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
exposed.

 >Then when
> you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence.
They
> accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your remarks
to twist
> and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions that
you ask.

None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of well
known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of his
convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we know
why he can't, don't we!


>     Not confrontational in a sense that they are insecure about
themselves in
> stature and looks. They are only users and feed on the weak and
innocent.
> They have been known to use  little children for their sexual
pleasure
> because a real adult is intimidating to them.

Notice how he continues with this tirade of hate, angered at having his
lies exposed. He now resorts to even wilder accusations, which have
even less foundation than his Talmud lies. He's just not up to the
task. He has the desire to lie, but not the ability or fortitude to
defend them.

>     To call others names and to question others intelligence is a way
that
> they try to elevate themselves above the reproach that they live
under
> because of the Talmud.

I live under no reproach. Snead, however, lives under the reproach of
his lies, which he is afraid to defend, and his mindless hatred of
Jews, which he will one day have to defend to his maker.

 This insecure race of people has done to much damage
> to the Aryan people for me to be politically correct,

Snead, who doth protest too much, is the insecure one (races of people
are not insecure, but a racist wouldn't know that) and political
correctness has nothing to do with antisemitsm.

So Jews, Do what you
> did in Russia and make anti-semitism a capitol crime to shut my mouth.

Another lie. Pretty pathetic performance actually.

> To God be the Glory,

God abhors everything you stand for.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:02:12 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=807
> Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....

Methinks someone, having had their lies shoved down their throat, is
now resorting to childish games.

How does it feel, Snead, to discover that your hateful beliefs are so
easily exposed and refuted, and your ability to defend yourself, so
lacking?

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:04:17 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: sneadster@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@eGroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Potpourii of Popes'  thoughts on the Talmud
>Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 11:06:11 -0700
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-761-david_223 Sat Sep 04 11:08:18 1999
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>
>    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
>exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
>faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
>here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
>will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
>lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
>but not the hater.
>    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
>thought's  on the Talmud:
>***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
>kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
>doctrine."
>***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
>"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
>prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
>***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
>***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
>***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
>(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
>***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
>condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
>***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
>***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
>of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
>***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
>By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
>continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
>Religion with daily increasing audacity."
>***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
>    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
>religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
>truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
>Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
>Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
>noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
>eminently defended?
>Michael Snead
>14/88

Yes, Michael...so true....and have you ever noticed that even "Messianic
Jews" will speak against the Talmud?....even though the Talmud speaks of
Jesus in such a vile manner?....go figure.....I've asked "Messianic Jews" to
repudiate the evil doings of the Jews mentioned in Holy Writ; and have never
had even one speak against these evil deeds, or the evil spoken of in their
Talmud....Was Luther wrong?...I think not!

Hail Jesus' Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:06:32 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=809
> At 07:36 PM 9/4/99 -0700, Mathews wrote:
> >Kadach wrote:
>
> >> Well Mathews, you sure do know how to win people over to your
side.
> >
> >Eddie Kadach makes his usual content free contribution. Remember
Eddie,
> >the lurkers just listen.
>
>
> I'll be darned. The lurkers just sit there and "listen". To what,
> their hearts beating? Like I said you do need to rest.

You've said nothing, as is your usual contribution. A fact lurkers will
realize as evidence of the emptiness of your "philosophy". I wish I
could clone a dozen of you Eddie, you make it so much easier!


>  I notice you've stopped using the "Racialist
> >Regards" closing to your posts. Trying to hide something from the
list
> >Eddie?

No answer I see, must have struck a nerve.

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 20:10:24 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=813
>
>
>
> >From: sneadster@aol.com
>
> >    To speak the truth and to be called a hater is
> >exactly what Jesus Christ had to endure when he
> >faced the self-rightous Jews during his journeys
> >here on earth. The sins of the Satanic off springs
> >will surely be their demise. I personally hate a
> >lie but not the liar. I hate the hate in it's self
> >but not the hater.
> >    The followiing are some of the past Popes'
> >thought's  on the Talmud:
> >***Gregory IX Condemned the Talmud as containing, every
> >kind of vileness and blashphemy against the Christian
> >doctrine."
> >***BenidictXIII His Bull on the Jews(1450)Decalred
> >"the herisies, vanities and the errors of the Talmud
> >prevent the Jews from knowing the truth."
> >***InocentIV Burned the Tlmud in 1233 as a book of evil
> >***John XXII Banned the Talmudin 1322
> >***JuliusIII Papal Bull Contra Hebreos retinentes Libros
> >(1554)ordered the Talmud burnt "everywhere"
> >***Paul IV BullCum Nimis Absurdum (1555) powerfully
> >condemned Jewish usery and anti-Christian activities.
> >***Pius IV Condemned Jewish Gonocidal writings.
> >***Pius V expelled allJews from Papal States because
> >of their evil writings of Christians and Gentiles.
> >***Gergory XIII said in a Papal Bull of 1581, "Moved
> >By an entence hatred of the members of Christ, they
> >continue to plan horrible crimes againt the Christian
> >Religion with daily increasing audacity."
> >***Clement VIII condemned Jewish genocidal writings.
> >    Am I a hater for posting what I have read from great
> >religious Leaders of the past? Am I wrong to tell the
> >truth? It seems funny that when you tell the truth the
> >Jew gets flustered and accuses you of being a liar.
> >Antisemetic.Says you are the Hatemonger. Have you also
> >noticed that the Talmud and the Holocaust has to be so
> >eminently defended?
> >Michael Snead
> >14/88
>
> Yes, Michael...so true....and have you ever noticed that even
"Messianic
> Jews" will speak against the Talmud?....even though the Talmud speaks
of
> Jesus in such a vile manner?....go figure.....I've asked "Messianic
Jews" to
> repudiate the evil doings of the Jews mentioned in Holy Writ; and
have never
> had even one speak against these evil deeds, or the evil spoken of in
their
> Talmud.

Why don't you cite excerpts of the Talmud you believe reflect these
views and we can discuss them. Or are you just lying through your teeth?

...Was Luther wrong?...I think not!

That is true, you think not!
>
> Hail Jesus' Victory!

Your evil, hateful message has nothing to do with Jesus' victory. You
will answer to him one day.

Philip Mathews

> David
>
> ______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 22:17:37 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: maxwell99@webtv.net (Colleen Jones)
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes'  thoughts on the Talmud
>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:53:11 -0400 (EDT)
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>In-Reply-To: philnancy@aol.com's message of Sat, 04 Sep 1999 12:48:37 -0700
>
>Oh My Gosh I say little on this list, but that Mathews is the most
>obnoxious, obvious plant I have ever seen.....let him stay though that
>we may see the advesary as I recognize the style of this individual.

>

Deleted 9 philnancy messages that were posted only today....does this guy
work??

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: POLL: Philip Mathews
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 23:40:26 -0500
From: kelsey 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

As I have not followed his conversation
I cannot select one of the following,  but
I am interested in your findings.  This is a
neat thing that you have done!

sneadster@aol.com wrote:

> Do you think that Philip Matthews is a....
> ----
>
> Please select one of the following:
>
>    o Talmudic Rabbi
>    o An Aryan race traitor
>    o A Dung pivot man on a Camel Farm
>    o confused gentile
>    o a koshered pickled drunk
>    o Willie Martin playing a trick on us
>    o a Jew looking for attention
>    o aFence riding pharisee/sadducee
>
> by going to the following Web form:
>
>    http://www.egroups.com/vote?id=936498305079
>
> Thank you!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MyPoints-Free Rewards When You're Online.
> Start with up to 150 Points for joining!
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Subject: [13texan] Talmud the book of intolerance
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:27:02 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com


The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

The Talmud
       4

    The GEMERA section of The Talmud serves as a commentary on the MISHNAH
and is the product of about three centuries of Jewish teaching. It comes from
an Aramaic word which means "the learning," or "commentary" on the MISHNAH.

The Babylonian Talmud covers a "tracate" of some 63 volumes which will fill a
12 foot bookcase. It is huge. It takes for granted that its students have a
full knowledge of Jewish "cultic purity."

    Cultic impurity is acquired by coming into contact with what is called a
"Father, child or offspring of uncleanliness." For instance, contact with a
dead body, contact with a person having a transmittable disease, objects made
of metal, wood, bone or cloth are also believed to be "fathers of
uncleanliness," if they have been touched by a dead body.

    Food and liquids also can be considered unclean. But unclean food does
not render dishes or eating utensils unclean. A liquid that has been made
unclean by coming into contact with a "father of uncleanliness" will make a
vessel unclean if it touches the inside of the vessel. If food touches a
person or vessel which is unclean, it automatically becomes unclean. It is
not always necessary to wash your hands before eating to prevent uncleanness,
but do as Rav taught and cover them with a napkin.

    It is this Pharisaical nit-picking over uncleanliness which Neusner calls
"literary greatness," but which caused Jesus to address the Pharisees in
Matthew 23:25-27 in the following manner: "Woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the
platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind
Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the
outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear
beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all
uncleanness."

    In Mark 7:3-9 the Christ said: For the Pharisees, and all the Jews,
except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the
elders. And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not.
And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the
washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. Then the Pharisees
and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition
of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto
them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This
people honoureth me (God) with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
How be it in vain do they (the Jews) worship me, teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the
tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like
things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of
God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

    This is the stupidity of Judaism as it is taught by The Babylonian Talmud.

    The rabbis reveled in nit-picking. For example, they wrote that any
common food which they deemed unclean would be unfit for the Temple heave
offering. They even went as far as to declare "four removes," which were
stages of uncleanliness.

    The rabbis who wrote these purity rules ("commandments of men" as Jesus
called them) were common folks in Babylon who pretended they were priests.
They were the remainder of the Judahites from the House of Judah who were in
exile for their sins. They pretended that they were eating a meal in the
Temple in Jerusalem at the table of God. At this time, the Temple had been
destroyed and there was no such thing as a Jewish nation in existence
anywhere. The bulk of the House of Judah had been carried away by the
Assyrians who scattered them among the House of Israel so that they, too,
(just as the northern tribes of Israel) lost their identity as a kingdom. The
rabbis taught that by adhering to the rules they laid down, one could change
the commonplace into the holy. This captured the puzzling notion that if one
preserved the purity of a slice of bread, for instance, you somehow changed
it into "holy shew bread." As a result of these nit-picking rules of men,
which became the "traditions of men" Jesus spoke about, the Jews were taught
to eat their meals in an atmosphere of "cultic purity." Uppermost in their
minds was that every aspect of ritualistic eating must be fulfilled. To their
way of thinking, that began with the traditional grace before meals which
said: Blessed art thou, Lord our God, King of the world, who brings forth
bread from the earth.

    Therefore the food they ate had to be prepared with special ritualistic
procedures. We are not speaking here of the foods forbidden by the Scriptures
such as pork or shell fish, but of Kosher food which had to be approved by
the rabbi to be clean.

    The following example will illustrate the ridiculous trivia they mandate
and require of their congregations. The rabbi of the House of Shammai will
say, "He wipes his hands with the napkin and lays it on the table, for if you
say 'non the cushion' it is a precautionary decree lest the liquids which are
on the napkin become unclean because of the cushion and when the napkin is
used, it makes the hands unclean."

    Another interesting observation is that a Jew may eat "unconsecrated"
food without washing his hands, but it becomes a sin if "consecrated food" is
eaten with unwashed hands. Talk about splitting hairs!

    The Babylonian Talmud was originally written in both Hebrew and Aramaic,
and most of The Palestinian Talmud was written in Hebrew. The use of these
languages is not accidental. Therefore, we find that part of The Babylonian
Talmud known as the TANNAIM, which is comprised of "statements of standard
law" are in Hebrew, while the comments and analysis of the AMORAIN, are in
Aramaic. The editor's remarks are normally in Aramaic. Those parts written in
Hebrew will appear in normal type, while the Aramaic bits will be in Italics.
Boldfaced type is used for portions of the MISHNAH and the TOSEFTA.

    The idea that the "canon" (body of law) was completed at Mt. Sinai is not
accepted by the rabbis. They say that later teachings of the rabbis,
including that which was taught by themselves, are revelations from God. This
means that the basis for Judaistic belief is constantly open to new canonical
authoritative doctrines on both the law and Jewish theology. One group of
rabbis holds the position that: "You must first clean your house and then
wash your hands," while the other adamantly states: "If you say wash the
hands first, it turns out that you spoil the food." On the Sabbath, an
orthodox Jew is not supposed to move something from the private to the
domestic domain. The arguments between the rabbis surge back and forth as the
various houses vie for supremacy until the ordinary Jew is uncertain of what
course he should take.

    The religious Jew takes for granted that he may make decisions regarding
the Gentiles, or more accurately, the "goyim." Now most of the goyim could
care less whether or not the Jews say a blessing over their candles; or the
manner in which they sniff the incense, or sip their wine.

What difference does it make to us how the Jews do these things? However, the
orthodox Jew believes it makes a great deal of difference. Since the Jews in
most ages had very little control over the outside world, the world of the
Gentiles, the rabbis made a grand issue of enormous consequences the simplest
actions on the part of the Jew. When a man sat at the table to eat, his
napkin had to be placed in the correct position or it would become unclean.
In this, he thought he was the priest in the holy Temple.

    The rabbis managed to take the common things of life and turn them into
things of great importance. So the Jews were taught that if they obeyed God,
no one would ever rule over them, but if they disobeyed, the heathen would
get the upper hand. This, by the way, is the belief of most Kingdom Movement
people, and for once, the Jewish rabbis were right.

    Another Talmudic rule has to do with spices and incense. One rabbi says
that if a Jew is walking outside a village in which most of the inhabitants
are non-Jews and he smells a scent, he does not bless the smell. However, if
most of the people who live in the village are Jews, he blesses it. Another
rabbi says that even if most of the villagers are Jews, the Jew may not bless
the smell because Jewish women use incense for witchcraft. Another rabbi
says: "If a Jew is walking in a Gentile market and is pleased with the scent
of their spices, he is a sinner." And on and on it goes!

    These teachings are utterly inconsistent with the teachings of Moses, and
they are constantly arguing over non-essentials just as Christian monks once
did during the Middle Ages when a great argument raged over how many angels
could dance on the head of a pin.

    Arguments over whether to say "Amen!" over a blessing when you have only
heard part of it; whether to say "Amen!" after the blessing given by children
in a schoolhouse; whether to say a blessing when there is no oil available;
whether a physically dirty person is unfit to say grace; these are all part
of the nit-picking that goes on between the rabbis.

    An interesting, yet completely nauseating aspect of The Babylonian Talmud
is the robust sexuality of its laws concerning sex and women in particular.
For instance, the rabbis love to refer to a couple who have intercourse all
night long and they promise blessings to those who have sex two or more times
in a night. In fact, the more often the better as far as the rabbis are
concerned. But the sex act must be done properly according to their
ritualistic law.

    In their theory, if an unmarried man is legally engaged and has sexual
relations with an unmarried woman, the couple are considered to have
consummated a legitimate marriage union and are recorded as being legally
married. This is somewhat contrary to any law Moses ever recorded from God!

    The Torah prevents a woman from having sex during her menstrual cycle.
Then the discussion arose among the rabbis over whether it was better to have
sex in the light, or in the dark. Was it all right to have sex in any other
than a private condition? The pious could have sex in the dark, while the
ultra-pious cleared the bedroom of flies and mosquitoes before they engaged
in the act. Nothing was said about whether this was for religious purposes,
or for the comfort of the couple so engaged.

    The rabbis seemed to believe that a shy, modest person could not learn,
so they minced no words when it came to graphic description of the sex act.
Much of it was so filthy that it would not do to include it in this book. If
you want to know why the average Jewish person seems obsessed with sex, just
read The Talmud.

    Dr. Neusner freely admits on page 279 in his Invitation to the Talmud,
that The Talmud is "peculiarly modern in its systematic skepticism, its
testing of each proposition.... The Talmudist's first question is 'What is
the reason?"' He goes on to say that the Talmudic approach is to reason
things out, rather than accept them on faith. It was this Jewish thinking
that came close to destroying 20th century Christianity through the "higher
criticism" of German-Jewish scholars.

    Dr. Benjamin Freedman, a converted Jew, in his extraordinary book, Facts
are Facts! said: For every ounce of good you accomplish through the
conversion of a self-styled Jew to the Christian faith, you do a ton of harm
in another direction. Regardless of what anyone, anywhere and anytime may
say, events of recent years, everywhere, have established beyond the question
of doubt, that the Christian faith stands with its foot in the grave and the
other on a banana peel, speaking figuratively.

    The Christian faith stands at the crossroads of its destiny. The Divine
and Sacred mission of the Christian faith is in jeopardy today to a degree
never witnessed before in its 2,000 years of history.

    If the day ever arrives when Christians can no longer profess their
faith, as they profess it now in the Free World, then it will see the
beginning of its last days.

    The history of the world for the past several centuries and in current
events at home and abroad, confirms the existence of a conspiracy to destroy
Christian civilization. The world-wide plot of these diabolical conspirators
has been implemented while most Christians have been asleep. The Christian
clergy seem to be more ignorant, or indifferent to this plot than other
Christians. They seem to bury their heads in the sands of indifference and
ignorance. This has dealt a severe blow to the Christian faith.... Christians
need a spiritual Paul Revere to ride across the land, warning that their
enemies are closing in on them.

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Subject: [13texan] History of Judaism in the New World
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:47:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

THE TALMUD
5

History of Judaism in The New World

    Chapter Four

    The history of Judaism in the New World actually began with Columbus'
trip to the West Indies. On August 2, 1492, over 300,000 Jews were expelled
from Spain under royal edict because of their treacherous dealings with the
invading Moors from North Africa and for their unscrupulous business
practices. In many instances during the height of the Moorish invasion,
cities which were under attack by the Moslem hordes had their gates opened
from within by Jews who had been befriended by the city's inhabitants. On
August 3,1492, Christopher Columbus set sail to the west in an attempt to
find a short-cut passage to China. He took a group of five Jews with him.
These were not refugees by any definition, but were wealthy, prominent
businessmen who hoped to make a financial killing on the gold they expected
to find.

    The old wives'  tale that Queen Isabella sold her jewels to finance this
trip will not stand up under historical research. These Jews, who were known
as "maranos," had converted to Catholicism because it was to their advantage
to do so. At this time they wielded great influence in the Spanish court.
Luis de Santagel, who was an important Valencian merchant and the royal tax
collector, was one of these men who went with Columbus. Another was Gabriel
Sanchez, a relative of Santagel who was the royal treasurer of Spain. Their
mutual friend, the Jew Juan Cabero, the royal chamberlain in charge of the
royal house accompanied them also.

    There were four other Jews associated with this epic journey. Columbus'
interpreter, Luis de Torres; his surgeon, Marco, Benal, a physician; and
Alonzo de Ia Calle. Luis de Torres was the first European to set foot ashore
in the New World and the first to discover the use of tobacco.

    These Jews worked on Queen Isabella's imagination by telling her that
Columbus would discover unheard of riches, and that they would be able to
convert thousands to Catholicism. Isabella, being a very devout Catholic, was
moved by this to give her consent to the voyage. Santagel himself advanced
17,000 ducats, equal to about 50,000 pounds in modern money.

    All of the Jews who accompanied Columbus were richly rewarded for the
part they played in this work, and they repaid Columbus by betraying him
through a conspiracy engineered by the ship's doctor, Benal. Columbus landed
in a Spanish prison.

    From the very beginning, Jews gravitated to the New World, many settling
in what is now Brazil. But due to expected Jewish conduct, they were forced
to emigrate and headed north where they ended up in the Dutch colony under
Peter Stuyvesant, in what is now New York state. Stuyvesant had experience
dealing with the Jews in Holland and was reluctant to allow them into the
colony, but allowed them to remain because of the large sums of money they
invested in the Dutch East Indies Company. It is the same old story of greed
on the part of so-called Christians.

    From their base in New York, they became the backbone of the African
slave trade, owning most of the slave ships which plied the waters between
Africa and the New World with their pitiful passengers. Records in the public
library in Boston, Massachusetts, show the names of the Jewish owners of
these slave ships. They also owned most of the distilleries in the area which
distilled the rum that became a media of exchange for slaves in Africa.

    Jews were at first forbidden to enter public service, or open retail
stores in the thirteen colonies so they went into foreign trade. They made
New York City the principle port in the New World and this city has been
their paradise of gain ever since. To the International Jews, it is their
capital city. Some Jewish leaders in recent years have boldly declared that
the United States is their "Promised Land," and that New York City is their
"New Jerusalem."

    By the time of the American Revolution, there were about 4,000 Jews in
the colonies, most of them well-to-do traders. They helped the revolutionary
cause by lending large sums of money at exorbitant interest rates to the
revolutionists.

    By 1850, the Jewish population had increased to over 3,300,000. It would
be impossible today to list all the businesses controlled by American and
International Jews in this country, or to intelligently estimate the enormous
power they have over our government.

    From the height of their economic pinnacle, they control the entire
Babylonian money system of finance and industry. There is not a citizen among
us, man or woman, rich or poor, who does not in some way pay tribute to
Jewish money power. You can count on your fingers the preachers, politicians,
industrialists and educators who are not debtors to the Jews and therefore
not under their power.

    Jewish financial power resembles an "imp" which one cannot see, yet he
has his fingers in every pocket. He is especially experienced in the art of
seduction, having received his training from the "master seducer" of all.
(See John 8:44) He speaks to the captive Christian world and sneeringly says:
Worship me, and I will give you all of this; I will lead you to happiness.
This is the same tempting promise his spiritual father made to Christ in
Matthew 4:8 and 9. While he promises happiness, his promises lead to slavery
and horrible death.

    At the end of the Napoleonic Wars, a Jew from Frankfort, Germany, by the
name of Rothschild, borne on the wave of the power of gold, rose to
phenomenal prominence in Europe. He became the visible head of this Jewish
world power. All other Jews bowed to him. He was the king of world finances
and commanded the masses of world Jewry, as sure as Adolf Hitler ever
commanded the army of the Third Reich. It is impossible to calculate the
influence of this family for they had countless billions of dollars in wealth
and, at their beck and call, presidents and kings cringed at their spoken
word. They were as much the ruler of the world as any crowned head of state,
and their subjects were the countless millions who toiled in every country to
add to
their power and wealth.

    In the twentieth century this European Jewish family was challenged in
the New World by another Jewish dynasty, that of the Rockefeller clan. These
people hid their Jewishness under the facade of Protestantism and engaged in
a life and death financial struggle for world supremacy.

    The profits acquired by these international Talmudist bankers were used
to improve their social standings. They mingled with and intermarried into
some of the most prominent families of Europe and America, even into the
royal family of Britain. Their longing for supremacy in the Arts and Sciences
was part of their longing to be recognized by the cream of society. This
meant that they had to acquire power in literature, medicine, and public
education while controlling the professions of Law and Journalism. This they
set out to do.

    Today, Jewish journalists form a closely connected, powerful combine
composed of the most clever and industrious minds of Jewry who are dedicated
to the furtherance of International Talmudic Judaism. They have appropriated
the right to intervene in foreign affairs to the point where their
Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith (an unregistered agent of the
Israeli government, operating illegally yet with impunity in American
affairs) controls the American Congress. Powerful politicians, such as
Senator J. William Fulbright of Arkansas and Senator Percy of Illinois have
learned to their sorrow the price of bucking Zionist interests in Washington,
D.C.

    As Jews attained social status, they invaded the Christian world and
brainwashed Christians of various religious hues into accepting a false
theology that placed the Christ-haters in the position of being God's Chosen
who can do no wrong. Blinded by Jewish cries of "world brotherhood," and from
the cries of the National Council of Churches who epitomize apostate
Christianity, the clergy of America are befuddled by the humane appearances
of Jewish theories and seem incapable of perceiving the danger which
threatens the Christian world with extinction. Samuel Untermeyer, who
arranged for the International Boycott Conference in Amsterdam, Holland, in
July 1933, stated: ... the holy war ... in which we (Jews) are embarked, is a
war which must be waged unremittingly... the Jews are the aristocrats of the
world... this boycott must be against all German goods and services... we
will drive the last nail in the German coffin. This was long before there was
any sign of pressure against the Jews in Germany.

    During World War II, the Administration of President Franklin Delano
Roosevelt was literally overrun by Zionist Jews. There is mounting evidence
which has been surfacing over the years which proves that America was
deliberately led into World War II by the Zionist interests in Roosevelt's
Administration.

    The Hon. Henry L. Stimson, Secretary of Defense during world War II,
wrote in his daily diary for November 21,1941, two weeks prior to Pearl
Harbor: The President called a cabinet meeting this morning and told us that
he wanted us to be at war with Japan, but that he did not want it to appear
to the public that the United States had fired the first shot. Roosevelt then
went ahead to knowingly provoke the Japanese into an overt attack on Pearl
Harbor. This intrigue, better known as treason, came at a time when Roosevelt
was mesmerizing the American public with his "Fireside Chats," in which his
theme was, "Ah hate wah! And we'll nevah send American boys to fight on fawen
soil. Nevah! Nevah! Nevah!" All this while he was actively engaged in plans
to do just that!

    When Harry Truman succeeded F.D.R. in the seat of power in Washington, he
carried on in Roosevelt's footsteps and on May 15,1948, gave official
recognition to the terrorist government of the bandit State of Israel in
Palestine. Truman called these terrorists a "peace loving nation," which had
come into being through terrorist methods. Since that day, we have poured
countless billions of tax dollars into shoring up this little bandit state,
and by doing so have completely alienated the Moslem world which was at one
time our staunch ally.

    The pathway to Talmudic subservience has continued ever since, through
the Administrations of: Harry Truman; Dwight David Eisenhower, who was of
Swedish Jewish extraction; Lyndon Baines Johnson; Richard Milhouse Nixon;
Gerald Rudolph Ford; James Earl Carter; Ronald Wilson Reagan, and now George
Herbert Walker Bush. In actuality, President Bush has been the only president
since WW II who has ever said "No!" to the Zionists.

    Rather than endure the smears which they knew would come their way if
they bucked Zionist interests in Washington, the vast majority of Congress
have been willing to sell future generations of Americans into virtual
slavery to the Talmudic internationalists. They have become, for the most
part, spineless, egotistical people so taken up with the importance of their
political positions, that they believe they can do no wrong. They have become
guilty of the grossest hypocrisy of all times, as they deliberately evade the
one and all-important issue of who is controlling America. They are willing
to cooperate in the destruction of their own white race for a little
momentary security, popularity and power.

    There is no need in this book for me to provide the details of
Communism's Jewish origin, both of its brains and its financing. Suffice to
say that leading Jews have boasted for years of the part they played in its
establishment and success. It can be summed up in two statements; one made in
The London Jewish Chronicle, April 4,1918:
... there is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself; in the fact that so many
Jews are Bolshevists; in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism are consonant
(in agreement) with the finest ideals of Judaism and a statement made by the
Red Rabbi, Stephen S. Wise some years later. When asked his opinion of
Communism, he said: Some call it Communism; I call it Judaism.

    We will see the finest teaching of Judaism as they come into agreement
with the teachings of International Communism in The Talmud. The Jewish plan
for world conquest is not new. It was begun in the dusty halls of ancient
Babylon and has been carried on, secretly for the most part, until today it
stands on the verge of success. In 1902, the Grand Sanhedrin of
Constantinople laid down their Vengeance Protocol which called for them to
corner the control of the world's wealth. The Jewish Council which met at
Basile, Switzerland in 1879, drew up a far-reaching plan for world conquest
which has become known as the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion which
contains the "blueprint" for a world conquest. World Jewry, and their stooges
in the Christian world, call this work a counterfeit. But we must remember
that before there can be a counterfeit there must first be an original, and
one accomplished at forgery makes his copy as close to the original as
possible. So the question is not whether the Protocols are a forgery, but
whether world-Jewry is following their plan. "By their fruits ye shall know
them" and since the turn of the twentieth century, World Zionism has marched
to the plan of the Protocols.

    I will not go into the long and fascinating account of how World Jewry
gained control of American economics. This account is fully documented in my
book, The Great Conspiracy ,$3.00 pp. which details how the Talmudists gained
control over the economy of America.

    The Jewish writer, Maurice Samuels, in his book, You Gentiles, on page 23
states: I do not believe the primal difference between Gentiles and Jews is
reconcilable. You and we may come to an understanding, but never a
reconciliation. There will be irritation between us as long as we are in
intimate contact.

    The Apostle Paul termed it: Contrary to all men.. (I Thessalonians 2:15)

    On page 155 of this same book, Samuels says: We Jews, we the destroyers,
will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will ever meet our demands.

    Jeremiah, the Old Testament prophet, said in Jeremiah 9:5 and 6: And they
will deceive every one his neighbor, and will not speak the truth: they have
taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Thine habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to
know me, saith the Lord.

    While the brainwashed preachers of America have told their people that
the Jews are the Chosen People, the risen Son of God, Jesus our Lord and king
said to them in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9: "...I know the blasphemy of them
which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan."

    Our Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian churches are inspiring the
enemy of Christianity by putting a cloak of respectability around the
Talmudic enemy. If the truth were known among Christians at large, the
Talmudists would come tumbling down from their lofty perch. How the
Talmudists must laugh in secret as they see national religious leaders such
as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson glorify God's worst enemies.

*****************************************************************
Working on:
 "Jews Who Have Denounced the Talmud"
coming soon to a post near you
BY: MICHAEL SNEAD

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Potpourii of Popes' thoughts on the Talmud
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:19:09 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Griffin wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=816

>
> Deleted 9 philnancy messages that were posted only today....does this
guy
> work??

Perhaps I don't need to labor over them as much as you!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:10:12 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Part I

Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney (1998),
footnote #96:

A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the Jewish
take-over and control of the world would be the writings of Douglas Reed,
especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part Two of Far and
Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost and Found" in
the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The Controversy of Zion, along
with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The World's Foremost
Problem.

There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust never
existed. Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the most
notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000 people
(many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by the Germans at
the time of the Russian advance in 1945. Certainly, compared to Spielberg's
film, Schindler's List (which Emilie Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full
of lies), and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
were systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.
Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have had
hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137 people PER
HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been exterminated at such small
camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly impossible
considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and The
Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed by the
entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII (see p.397-400
of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People who would believe the
Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated by Hitler must
KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY FEW
OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.

On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that when
Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WWII, he was
told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic tells us that
25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In fact, it
doesn't even equal 600,000.
Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth is
regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that six
million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not stand the
test of the available data, nor of common sense.
End Part I

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:37:07 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Zimmerman worte:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=821
> Part I
>
> Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney
(1998),
> footnote #96:
>
> A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the Jewish
> take-over and control of the world would be the writings of Douglas
Reed,
> especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part Two of Far
and
> Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost and
Found" in
> the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The Controversy of Zion,
along
> with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The World's
Foremost
> Problem.

Jewish take over of the world! What a joke. Only the dimest of the dim
believe such foolishness, and most of them are a tad too smart to admit
to such idiocy in public. Ms. Zimmerman apparently is willing to
believe any antisemitic lie ever told and post it in her never ending
effort to smear Jews.

>
> There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust
never
> existed.

This ought to be good!

 Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
> Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the
most
> notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000
people
> (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by the
Germans at
> the time of the Russian advance in 1945.

Nice try. This doesn't refer to the size of the camp, but the
population at the end of the war as the Soviet troops approached. All
but a few thousand and been killed or shipped out. The remainder were
forced into the notorious "death marches" back to Germany, and many
died. Auschwitz held as many as 120,000 people at its busiest. Just
over 1.4 million Jews were shipped into Auschwitz during its life,
raising the interesting question of where they disappeared to.

 >Certainly, compared to Spielberg's
> film, Schindler's List (which Emilie Schindler, Oskar's widow, said
was full
> of lies),

Another lie from someone who apparently has no compunction about
telling them.

> and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
> were systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small
number.

The correct interpretation of that number and the numbers througout the
war have now been provided, demonstrating your point to be silly.

> Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have had
> hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137
people PER
> HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been exterminated at such
small
> camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly impossible
> considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and
The
> Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed
by the
> entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII

There were five main death camps where the Jews killed by gas died.
There were dozens of other camps not primarily death camps where many
died nonetheless. Over 1 million were shot by the Einsatzgruppen in
Easten Europe. And many died in the various ghettos awaiting transport
to the camps. The numbers killed by Germans and Japanese armies
numbered into the many millions. Only an ignorant Nazi apologist would
post such an obviously false number.

(see p.397-400
> of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People who would believe
the
> Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated by Hitler
must
> KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY
FEW
> OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.

You don't know what you're talking about, as I've shown. The
Auschwitz-Birkenau camp was part of a 25 sq. mile zone and it could
accomodate well over 100,000 people at a time.

>
> On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
> broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that
when
> Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WWII,
he was
> told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic tells
us that
> 25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In fact, it
> doesn't even equal 600,000.

That's 25,000 deaths at a camp which wasn't even intended as a death
camp. The death camps were in Poland and 5 in particular figured in the
death of millions. Simple arithmetic based on ignorant assumptions is
meaningless.

> Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth is
> regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that six
> million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not
stand the
> test of the available data, nor of common sense.

It stands the test very well. What doesn't stand the test is Ms.
Zimmerman's lies. She clearly relies on the ignorance of her audience
in posting such foolishness and evidently will post any lie, no matter
how outrageous, to smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] German Institute of Contemporary History's Estimate of Jews killed
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:47:02 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Concerns:  Number of victims of the Nazi tyranny
In reference to your letter which arrived here on 9/3/92.

Dear Mr. Dr. Keren:

In answer to your above mentioned request we send you in a separate
mailing by air mail book-post a composition achieved in house,
concerning "The killing of humans through gas in the extermination-
and concentration camps under the Nazi tyranny" in which you will find
answers to your questions # 1,2 and 4.

The victims of the operation groups of the security service and the SD
behind the German frontier in the Russia-campaign were to the by far
largest part Jews. Their number is estimated to be at least 900,000.

The difference between the total of the victims of the gassings cited
in the above mentioned composition and the number of victims of the
operation groups and the total of roughly 6 million victims of the Nazi
persecution of the Jews results from the fact that a very high
percentage
of the victims have lost their lives through indirect extermination
actions such as the method "destruction through work", bad treatment,
under nourishment, epidemics, exhaustion during forced transportations
etc.

About 120,000 people were killed through the Nazi "Euthanasia"-actions.

Concerns: The killing of people through gas in the extermination and
concentrations camps under the Nazi power

The systematic murdering of humans through gas during the Nazi rule was
introduced for the first time from January 1940 on in the area of the
"Euthanasia", the extermination of the "lives not worthy to live" of
the handicapped, mental patients and the terminally ill, and from fall
1941 on was continued to a much larger extent by the pogroms of the
operation groups of the security police and the SD in the seized eastern
areas with the help of mobile gas vans.

Beginning December of 1941 one proceeded in the camp Kulmhof (Polish
Chelmno) to use stationary gas vans for the killing of Jews, and from
the beginning of 1942 in different camps fixed gas chambers were built,
or already existing buildings were restructured for this purpose.

One needs to differentiate by the furnishing of such gas chambers and
the
gassing actions carried out within them between the mass gassings of
Jews
in the extermination camps build for that purpose and the gassings of
smaller scale in individual, already existing concentration camps
(whereby
patients, seized forced laborers, war prisoners, and political prisoners
among others were also victims)

The following extermination camps existed:

Kulmhof i.e. Chelmno (in the then Wartheland), where between December
1941 and fall 1942 and again from May until August 1944 gassings by
means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas took place. Altogether
more than 150,000 Jews as well as 5000 gypsies have hereby been killed.

Belzec (in the district Lublin of the then general governments): from
march to December 1942 in the beginning in three, later in six large gas
chambers by means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas altogether
about 600,000 Jews were killed here.

Sobibor (district Lublin, general government) received in April 1942
three, later in September 1942 six gas chambers and until October 1943
it was "in operation". During this period at least 200,000 Jews have
been murdered through carbon monoxide gas.

Treblinka (district Warschau, general government) from the end of July
1942 on had three gas chambers and received at the start of September
1942
furthermore ten larger gas chambers. Up to the dissolution of the camp
in
November 1943 altogether 700,000 Jews were killed here by carbon
monoxide.

Majdanek (district Lublin, general government): The concentration camp
existing since September 1941 turned into an extermination camp when
between
April 1942 and November 1943 mass shootings took place to which 24,000
Jews
fell victim. In October 1942 also two, later three gas chambers were
built.
In the beginning the killings in these were done by means of carbon
monoxide, soon however one was using Zyklon B (a highly poisonous
insecticide made
from cyan hydrogen). Up until the dissolution of the camp in March 1944
about 50,000 Jews have been gassed.

Auschwitz-Birkenau (in the formerly polish, in 1939 adjoined to the
"Reich"
upper eastern Silesian area, south eastern of Kattowitz): The
extermination
camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of 1941, was joined to
the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since May 1940. From January
1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end of June 1943 in four
additional large gassing-rooms gassings with Zyklon B have been
undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one million Jews and at
least
4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas.

In the following concentration camps gas chambers were established and
have
gone into operation:

Mauthausen (upper Austria): From fall 1941 on one gas chamber existed
which
was operated with Zyklon B. In addition, gassings with carbon monoxide
took
place through gas vans which were driven between Mauthausen and it's
side-camp Gusen. Altogether more than 4000 have been killed here
through gas.

Neuengamme (southeastern of Hamburg): From fall of 1942 on gassings with
Zyklon B were undertaken here in a "Bunker" prepared for that, about 450
victims.

Sachsenhausen (Province Brandenburg, north of Berlin) received mid March
1943 a gas chamber which was operated with Zyklon B. Several thousand
people fell victim to the gassings, a more specific number cannot be
determined.

Natzweiler (by Struthof, Elsass): From August 1943 to August 1944 a gas
chamber existed here in which between 120 and 200 people were killed
through
Zyklon B in order to be able to dissect their skeletons for the
Anatomica
Institute of University of Strassburg.  Back then this institute was
managed
by a chief company commander of SS Prof. Dr. August Hirt.

Stutthof (east of Danzig) had from June 1944 on one gas chamber in which
more than 1000 were killed by Zyklon B.

Ravensbruck (Bradenburg, north of Berlin): Here still in January
1945 a gas chamber was established;  the number of the people killed
in it was at least 2300.

Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the establishment of
a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established in
it
in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief company
commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings were
undertaken,
as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see Gunther Kimmel:
The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi crimes of violence in
Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin Broszat and Elke Froehlich,
Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.) Larger gassing operations
have not taken place in Dachau.

The above mentioned numbers of the people killed in the gas chambers of
the individual camps are only approximations.  They also only refer to
the
people killed in gassing operations. The number of the Jews killed in
Europe due to the effects of the Nazi tyranny amounts, according to the
newest research to at least 5.29 million. Possibly, however, also more
than six million.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: More Talmudic Blaspheme......
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:48:29 -0700
From: maddison@connexus.net.au
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

maddiso-@connexus.net.au wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=800

> Because I expose these Jewish lies in their unholy book I am the
Liar. I am
> the Hatemonger. Any Christian who would read the verses from the
blasphemous
> Talmud and not be angered needs to even look at himself. I do not
blame any
> Jew ,for the revelations of word such as these that I have exposed,
to be
> angry and afraid at the same time. The cursed Talmud will be
destroyed and
> God's word will last forever.
> Michael Snead
> 14/88

For those interested in the truth about various forgeries from the
Talmud, they may like to visit my Web site at http://www.geocities.com/
Athens/Cyprus/8815

David Maddison


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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Estimate of Jews killed
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 00:08:22 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Concerns:  Number of victims of the Nazi tyranny
> In reference to your letter which arrived here on 9/3/92.
>
> Dear Mr. Dr. Keren:
>
> In answer to your above mentioned request we send you in a separate
> mailing by air mail book-post a composition achieved in house,
> concerning "The killing of humans through gas in the extermination-
> and concentration camps under the Nazi tyranny" in which you will find
> answers to your questions # 1,2 and 4.
>
> The victims of the operation groups of the security service and the SD
> behind the German frontier in the Russia-campaign were to the by far
> largest part Jews. Their number is estimated to be at least 900,000.
>
> The difference between the total of the victims of the gassings cited
> in the above mentioned composition and the number of victims of the
> operation groups and the total of roughly 6 million victims of the Nazi
> persecution of the Jews results from the fact that a very high
> percentage
> of the victims have lost their lives through indirect extermination
> actions such as the method "destruction through work", bad treatment,
> under nourishment, epidemics, exhaustion during forced transportations
> etc.
>
> About 120,000 people were killed through the Nazi "Euthanasia"-actions.
>
> Concerns: The killing of people through gas in the extermination and
> concentrations camps under the Nazi power
>
> The systematic murdering of humans through gas during the Nazi rule was
> introduced for the first time from January 1940 on in the area of the
> "Euthanasia", the extermination of the "lives not worthy to live" of
> the handicapped, mental patients and the terminally ill, and from fall
> 1941 on was continued to a much larger extent by the pogroms of the
> operation groups of the security police and the SD in the seized eastern
> areas with the help of mobile gas vans.
>
> Beginning December of 1941 one proceeded in the camp Kulmhof (Polish
> Chelmno) to use stationary gas vans for the killing of Jews, and from
> the beginning of 1942 in different camps fixed gas chambers were built,
> or already existing buildings were restructured for this purpose.
>
> One needs to differentiate by the furnishing of such gas chambers and
> the
> gassing actions carried out within them between the mass gassings of
> Jews
> in the extermination camps build for that purpose and the gassings of
> smaller scale in individual, already existing concentration camps
> (whereby
> patients, seized forced laborers, war prisoners, and political prisoners
> among others were also victims)
>
> The following extermination camps existed:
>
> Kulmhof i.e. Chelmno (in the then Wartheland), where between December
> 1941 and fall 1942 and again from May until August 1944 gassings by
> means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas took place. Altogether
> more than 150,000 Jews as well as 5000 gypsies have hereby been killed.
>
> Belzec (in the district Lublin of the then general governments): from
> march to December 1942 in the beginning in three, later in six large gas
> chambers by means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas altogether
> about 600,000 Jews were killed here.
>
> Sobibor (district Lublin, general government) received in April 1942
> three, later in September 1942 six gas chambers and until October 1943
> it was "in operation". During this period at least 200,000 Jews have
> been murdered through carbon monoxide gas.
>
> Treblinka (district Warschau, general government) from the end of July
> 1942 on had three gas chambers and received at the start of September
> 1942
> furthermore ten larger gas chambers. Up to the dissolution of the camp
> in
> November 1943 altogether 700,000 Jews were killed here by carbon
> monoxide.
>
> Majdanek (district Lublin, general government): The concentration camp
> existing since September 1941 turned into an extermination camp when
> between
> April 1942 and November 1943 mass shootings took place to which 24,000
> Jews
> fell victim. In October 1942 also two, later three gas chambers were
> built.
> In the beginning the killings in these were done by means of carbon
> monoxide, soon however one was using Zyklon B (a highly poisonous
> insecticide made
> from cyan hydrogen). Up until the dissolution of the camp in March 1944
> about 50,000 Jews have been gassed.
>
> Auschwitz-Birkenau (in the formerly polish, in 1939 adjoined to the
> "Reich"
> upper eastern Silesian area, south eastern of Kattowitz): The
> extermination
> camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of 1941, was joined to
> the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since May 1940. From January
> 1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end of June 1943 in four
> additional large gassing-rooms gassings with Zyklon B have been
> undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one million Jews and at
> least
> 4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas.
>
> In the following concentration camps gas chambers were established and
> have
> gone into operation:
>
> Mauthausen (upper Austria): From fall 1941 on one gas chamber existed
> which
> was operated with Zyklon B. In addition, gassings with carbon monoxide
> took
> place through gas vans which were driven between Mauthausen and it's
> side-camp Gusen. Altogether more than 4000 have been killed here
> through gas.
>
> Neuengamme (southeastern of Hamburg): From fall of 1942 on gassings with
> Zyklon B were undertaken here in a "Bunker" prepared for that, about 450
> victims.
>
> Sachsenhausen (Province Brandenburg, north of Berlin) received mid March
> 1943 a gas chamber which was operated with Zyklon B. Several thousand
> people fell victim to the gassings, a more specific number cannot be
> determined.
>
> Natzweiler (by Struthof, Elsass): From August 1943 to August 1944 a gas
> chamber existed here in which between 120 and 200 people were killed
> through
> Zyklon B in order to be able to dissect their skeletons for the
> Anatomica
> Institute of University of Strassburg.  Back then this institute was
> managed
> by a chief company commander of SS Prof. Dr. August Hirt.
>
> Stutthof (east of Danzig) had from June 1944 on one gas chamber in which
> more than 1000 were killed by Zyklon B.
>
> Ravensbruck (Bradenburg, north of Berlin): Here still in January
> 1945 a gas chamber was established;  the number of the people killed
> in it was at least 2300.
>
> Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the establishment of
> a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established in
> it
> in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief company
> commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings were
> undertaken,
> as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see Gunther Kimmel:
> The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi crimes of violence in
> Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin Broszat and Elke Froehlich,
> Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.) Larger gassing operations
> have not taken place in Dachau.
>
> The above mentioned numbers of the people killed in the gas chambers of
> the individual camps are only approximations.  They also only refer to
> the
> people killed in gassing operations. The number of the Jews killed in
> Europe due to the effects of the Nazi tyranny amounts, according to the
> newest research to at least 5.29 million. Possibly, however, also more
> than six million.
>
> Philip Mathews

A well known forgery...nothing but lies!

--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:15:21 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:

Part I

 Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney
(1998),  footnote #96:
 A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the Jewish
 take-over and control of the world would be the writings of Douglas
 Reed, especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part Two of Far
 and Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost and
 Found" in the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The Controversy of
Zion,
 along with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The World's
Foremost
 Problem.

Michael Snead  wrote:

        Jewish take over of the world!  What a joke to believe that the Jews
had nothing other in mind than to enslave the entire world by their monetary
control. Only the dimmest of the dim would believe anything else. Only a
dimwitted Jew with the Talmud as his Holy (sic) writings would think that no
one could see through the chameleon race. A Jew has to deny these facts and
refute them with vigor because of the power of the Aryans people. To admit to
such idiocy in public would be fatal to the Jewish race in both Hemispheres.
Ms. Zimmerman apparently is willing to tell the truth, unlike the "chameleon"
on this list who is a Talmud believer and a "Holohoax denier."  Ms Zimmerman
is willing to expose the Jews for what they really are and only in doing so
by telling the truth. Ms Zimmerman I thank God for the bearers of the truth
such as yourself.

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:

 There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust never
existed.

Michael Snead wrote:

This is going to  to be good! Pay attention here!

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:

 Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
 Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the
most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000
people (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by the
Germans at the time of the Russian advance in 1945.

Michael Snead wrote:

    Nice going. Not only does the book refer to the size of the camp, but the
Jews in this  particular camp had a choice to stay in the camp and wait for
the Russian liberators or leave with those nasty, mean, Nazis (sic). The
majority of the Jews who could travel left with the Germans. I know that a
Jew can take a five dollar bill and after he has swindled a dozen or so
people be a millionaire. Like the way the Russian (Jewish) Mafia in Russia
has done with the IMF's 15 billion dollars and Mr. Frankel who was caught
today(9-5-99) after embezzling 200 million from insurance funds. However, the
Jews count about the way Louis Farahkhan counted at the 241,000 man march a
few years ago and threatened to sue if the figures weren't raised to a
million. In Germany there were only 500,000 Jews total. Let's see....hmmm
500,000 times the 12 tribes of Israel is 6 million. Plus interest on four
years is 6,355,000 Jews. So then the 6 million that weren't there to begin
with that are accounted for being dead and the 355,000 interest that we owe
the Jews...Let's see, my figuring comes up with about 145,000 actual
casualties.

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
Certainly, compared to Spielberg's film, Schindler's List (which Emilie
Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full of lies),

Michael Snead wrote:

Another truth from a WITNESS

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews were
systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.

Michael Snead wrote:

The correct interpretation of that number and the numbers throughout the
war have now been provided, demonstrating the Jewish numbers silly.

Ms Zimmerman wrote:
 Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have had
 hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137
people PER HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been exterminated at
such
small camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly impossible
considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and
The Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed
by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII

Michael Snead wrote:
 Only an ignorant Jewish Racist Talmud reading intolerant fool would post
otherwise.

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
(see p.397-400 of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People who would
believe the Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated by
Hitler
must
 KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY FEW
OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.

Michael Snead wrote:
You  know what you're talking about Ms Zimmerman. The Auschwitz-Birkenau camp
was was first of all only large enough to hold 11,000 people. Only a fool
would believe that the Nazi's built accommodations for the Jews when they
were only going to kill them. Only a fool would believe that with a war
effort taking place, the Nazi's were moving Jews from here to there and back
and forth and around and through and on and on and on.

 Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
 broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that
when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following WWII,
he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic tells
us that  25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In fact,
it
doesn't even equal 600,000.

Michael Snead wrote:
Ms Zimmerman, Jewish Math is amazing isn't it?

Ms Zimmerman wrote:
 Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth is
 regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that six
 million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not
stand the test of the available data, nor of common sense.

Michael Snead wrote:
It doesn't stand the test very well at all. What does stand the test is Ms.
Zimmerman's ability to tick off a chameleon. She clearly enhances her
audiences
intelligence in posting great information and evidently will post any truth,
no matter
what!!!  To smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis is the right thing to do after
what the Jewish lies have done to such a great country such as Germany.
Very good post Ms. Zimmerman, very good.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Estimate of
     Jews kil...
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 01:44:53 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/5/99 10:49:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< 5.29 million >>

    Now your moving in the right direction....considering that the allied
forces were continually bombing refineries and that gasoline and diesel were
being rationed
and also the fact that the manpower to remove these bodies, and the purpose
of building the consentration camps was for housing them not to kill them.
Nazis surely would have had lesser facilities to kill the Jews and not wasted
their time building a place for them. Do you realize how rediculous the Jews
reasoning for the death camps are?  No Zyklon B was ever detected in the
chambers anyway. Talk about posting Lies. Good God almighty will deal with
you in the hereafter...no I take that back...You will be seeing your Holy
Father... Satan. May the Lord Jesus Christ, who your people crucified on the
cross and died for your sins, too, have mercy on your morbid soul.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: More Talmudic Blaspheme......
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 02:27:28 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi all!

maddison@connexus.net.au wrote:

>
> For those interested in the truth about various forgeries from the
> Talmud, they may like to visit my Web site at http://www.geocities.com/
> Athens/Cyprus/8815
>
> David Maddison

Taken from his web site....

The Talmud is Judaism's holiest book. Its authority takes precedence
over the Old
Testament in Judaism. Evidence of this may be found in the Talmud
itself, Erubin 21b
(Soncino edition): "My son, be more careful in the observance of the
words of the Scribes
than in the words of the Torah (Old Testament)."

RESPONSE
That's not true. The Torah - the Five Books of Moses is Judaism's
"holiest" book,

                             snip
A jew dosen't believe what Moses wrote anymore than
I follow the filthy talmud!...

It is a known fact that a jew traces his lineage
through his mother....

The New Standard jewish Encyclopedia, 7th edition, under
the heading GENTILE: p. 360, states the following...

"According to jewish law, every one whose mother is a non-
jewess is considered a non-jew, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE
FATHER IS JEWISH."

This is a TOTAL PERVERSION of the Scriptures!

Numbers 1:1a "And YHWH spake unto Moses in the wilderness
of Sinai, ....", (v2) Take ye the sum of all the congregation
of the children of Israel, after their families, BY THE HOUSE
OF THEIR FATHERS, with the number of their names, every male
by THEIR POLLS";

A second witness...Numbers 1:18

A third witness...Numbers 26:2

A fourth witness...Jeremiah 33:17

"For had you believed Moses, ye would have believed
me: for he wrote of me". (John 5:46) see Numbers 24:17
and Deut 18:15

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son". (1John 2:22)

"Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also".
                                        (1John 2:23)

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess
not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. THIS IS A DECEIVER
AND AN ANTICHRIST". (2John 7)

You should confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God and
be baptised for the remission of sins...it won't hurt!

--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:37:34 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: maddison@connexus.net.au

David,
    I have visited your website and  and will read all that you will provide.
To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make one a
hater.  I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
however that does not make me a hatemonger.
    For years I was a Dallas Cowboy fan (Tom Landry era) and my friends were
Washington Redskin fans, now when the Redskins were lucky enough to beat the
Cowboys I was not to be convinced that the Redskins were a better football
team than the Cowboys, no matter what!  I wasn't a hater of Redskin fans, I
just didn't like the Redskins.
    Because I do not agree with you or Philip Mathews doesn't make me hate
you or Philip. Do you hate me? I am of the belief that I must tell what is in
my heart and not sit idoly by and allow, what I feel to be, a fabrication to
be glorified.
    If I have no freedom to belive what I belive without being called a hater
then I have no freedom. If you are the involved with the "Mind Police" then
you have a suspect right here. I will engage with you a civil dialog if you
wish. I will read all that you have on your website.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 03:21:26 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Snead wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806
>
> > The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate,
> lies and
> > their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the
> non Jew
> > and even goes as far as to call them racial names.
>
> Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been exposed
> as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews. Notice
> he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because he knows
> nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some website
> because they said bad things about Jews.
>
>  The old trick of the Jew
> > is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic.
>
> The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
> antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't discuss the
> Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
> exposed.
>
>  >Then when
> > you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence.
> They
> > accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your remarks
> to twist
> > and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions that
> you ask.
>
> None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of well
> known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
> response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of his
> convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we know
> why he can't, don't we!
>

"I demolished them"???....appears to me you plagerized
another persons webpage and are now claiming the credit!

Around here we call it...LIAR! LIAR!...pants on fire!

Here is one of your statements from another post....

"Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
authors and websites and pretend its learning."

you should practice what you preach...

And here is another of your statements....

"And I don't attempt to use scripture to support by views,
there is too much of that by people who feel the need to
buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord. "

Your credability is sinking faster the the fecus of a whale!

And as far as you "destroying" any thing....it is just
a figment of your imagination....the source of the material
that you plagerized is from the Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
Edition of the talmud (a real bogus piece of material)....

You need to confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God
and be baptized for the remission of sins!....

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 06:23:57 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: maddison@connexus.net.au
>Subject: [13texan] Talmud and Holocaust
>Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:37:34 EDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-800-david_223 Sun Sep 05 23:39:29 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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>07:38:26 -0000
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>xDLAa06600 (4327) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 02:37:34
>-0400 (EDT)
>Message-ID: <996e584.2504bb2e@aol.com>
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10
>
>David,
>     I have visited your website and  and will read all that you will
>provide.
>To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make one a
>hater.  I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
>however that does not make me a hatemonger.
>     For years I was a Dallas Cowboy fan (Tom Landry era) and my friends
>were
>Washington Redskin fans, now when the Redskins were lucky enough to beat
>the
>Cowboys I was not to be convinced that the Redskins were a better football
>team than the Cowboys, no matter what!  I wasn't a hater of Redskin fans, I
>just didn't like the Redskins.
>     Because I do not agree with you or Philip Mathews doesn't make me hate
>you or Philip. Do you hate me? I am of the belief that I must tell what is
>in
>my heart and not sit idoly by and allow, what I feel to be, a fabrication
>to
>be glorified.
>     If I have no freedom to belive what I belive without being called a
>hater
>then I have no freedom. If you are the involved with the "Mind Police" then
>you have a suspect right here. I will engage with you a civil dialog if you
>wish. I will read all that you have on your website.
>Michael Snead
>14/88

Michael, to be a hater puts us in some pretty good company...There is
defineately a time to hate.....God is a hater,and not of works only, but of
people...The WORD states in Psalms "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the
wicked and him that loveth violence his  soul   hateth."....so we see that
God hates the wicked, and the doer of violence...not just the works, but the
person.

And in another Psalm, it is stated, "I hate them with  perfect   hatred : I
count them mine enemies."...and there are many other examples of hatred
being very compatible with the righteous which we are called to.

The only reason I responded to this post, brother, is that I hear so often,
that we are to hate the sin, and love the sinner...but I have never found
such an example for that in Holy Writ; it is a Jewish lie, fostered by those
Jews which claim to be converts to Christianity; although a literal child of
Satan can never be saved; neither did Jesus die for his sins.

We are to hate the wicked.....the Jew is to be hated.....this makes us good
Christians, as blessed Luther called us...and it makes us very pleasing to
God, that we hate His enemies.

Hail Jesus` Victory!
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Es
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:28:17 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=825
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Concerns:  Number of victims of the Nazi tyranny
> > In reference to your letter which arrived here on 9/3/92.
> >
> > Dear Mr. Dr. Keren:
> >
> > In answer to your above mentioned request we send you in a separate
> > mailing by air mail book-post a composition achieved in house,
> > concerning "The killing of humans through gas in the extermination-
> > and concentration camps under the Nazi tyranny" in which you will
find
> > answers to your questions # 1,2 and 4.
> >
> > The victims of the operation groups of the security service and the
SD
> > behind the German frontier in the Russia-campaign were to the by far
> > largest part Jews. Their number is estimated to be at least 900,000.
> >
> > The difference between the total of the victims of the gassings
cited
> > in the above mentioned composition and the number of victims of the
> > operation groups and the total of roughly 6 million victims of the
Nazi
> > persecution of the Jews results from the fact that a very high
> > percentage
> > of the victims have lost their lives through indirect extermination
> > actions such as the method "destruction through work", bad
treatment,
> > under nourishment, epidemics, exhaustion during forced
transportations
> > etc.
> >
> > About 120,000 people were killed through the Nazi
"Euthanasia"-actions.
> >
> > Concerns: The killing of people through gas in the extermination and
> > concentrations camps under the Nazi power
> >
> > The systematic murdering of humans through gas during the Nazi rule
was
> > introduced for the first time from January 1940 on in the area of
the
> > "Euthanasia", the extermination of the "lives not worthy to live" of
> > the handicapped, mental patients and the terminally ill, and from
fall
> > 1941 on was continued to a much larger extent by the pogroms of the
> > operation groups of the security police and the SD in the seized
eastern
> > areas with the help of mobile gas vans.
> >
> > Beginning December of 1941 one proceeded in the camp Kulmhof (Polish
> > Chelmno) to use stationary gas vans for the killing of Jews, and
from
> > the beginning of 1942 in different camps fixed gas chambers were
built,
> > or already existing buildings were restructured for this purpose.
> >
> > One needs to differentiate by the furnishing of such gas chambers
and
> > the
> > gassing actions carried out within them between the mass gassings of
> > Jews
> > in the extermination camps build for that purpose and the gassings
of
> > smaller scale in individual, already existing concentration camps
> > (whereby
> > patients, seized forced laborers, war prisoners, and political
prisoners
> > among others were also victims)
> >
> > The following extermination camps existed:
> >
> > Kulmhof i.e. Chelmno (in the then Wartheland), where between
December
> > 1941 and fall 1942 and again from May until August 1944 gassings by
> > means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas took place.
Altogether
> > more than 150,000 Jews as well as 5000 gypsies have hereby been
killed.
> >
> > Belzec (in the district Lublin of the then general governments):
from
> > march to December 1942 in the beginning in three, later in six
large gas
> > chambers by means of carbon monoxide from motor exhaust gas
altogether
> > about 600,000 Jews were killed here.
> >
> > Sobibor (district Lublin, general government) received in April 1942
> > three, later in September 1942 six gas chambers and until October
1943
> > it was "in operation". During this period at least 200,000 Jews have
> > been murdered through carbon monoxide gas.
> >
> > Treblinka (district Warschau, general government) from the end of
July
> > 1942 on had three gas chambers and received at the start of
September
> > 1942
> > furthermore ten larger gas chambers. Up to the dissolution of the
camp
> > in
> > November 1943 altogether 700,000 Jews were killed here by carbon
> > monoxide.
> >
> > Majdanek (district Lublin, general government): The concentration
camp
> > existing since September 1941 turned into an extermination camp when
> > between
> > April 1942 and November 1943 mass shootings took place to which
24,000
> > Jews
> > fell victim. In October 1942 also two, later three gas chambers were
> > built.
> > In the beginning the killings in these were done by means of carbon
> > monoxide, soon however one was using Zyklon B (a highly poisonous
> > insecticide made
> > from cyan hydrogen). Up until the dissolution of the camp in March
1944
> > about 50,000 Jews have been gassed.
> >
> > Auschwitz-Birkenau (in the formerly polish, in 1939 adjoined to the
> > "Reich"
> > upper eastern Silesian area, south eastern of Kattowitz): The
> > extermination
> > camp in Birkenau, established in the second half of 1941, was
joined to
> > the concentration camp Auschwitz, existing since May 1940. From
January
> > 1942 on in five gas chambers and from the end of June 1943 in four
> > additional large gassing-rooms gassings with Zyklon B have been
> > undertaken. Up until November 1944 more than one million Jews and at
> > least
> > 4000 gypsies have been murdered by gas.
> >
> > In the following concentration camps gas chambers were established
and
> > have
> > gone into operation:
> >
> > Mauthausen (upper Austria): From fall 1941 on one gas chamber
existed
> > which
> > was operated with Zyklon B. In addition, gassings with carbon
monoxide
> > took
> > place through gas vans which were driven between Mauthausen and it's
> > side-camp Gusen. Altogether more than 4000 have been killed here
> > through gas.
> >
> > Neuengamme (southeastern of Hamburg): From fall of 1942 on gassings
with
> > Zyklon B were undertaken here in a "Bunker" prepared for that,
about 450
> > victims.
> >
> > Sachsenhausen (Province Brandenburg, north of Berlin) received mid
March
> > 1943 a gas chamber which was operated with Zyklon B. Several
thousand
> > people fell victim to the gassings, a more specific number cannot be
> > determined.
> >
> > Natzweiler (by Struthof, Elsass): From August 1943 to August 1944 a
gas
> > chamber existed here in which between 120 and 200 people were killed
> > through
> > Zyklon B in order to be able to dissect their skeletons for the
> > Anatomica
> > Institute of University of Strassburg.  Back then this institute was
> > managed
> > by a chief company commander of SS Prof. Dr. August Hirt.
> >
> > Stutthof (east of Danzig) had from June 1944 on one gas chamber in
which
> > more than 1000 were killed by Zyklon B.
> >
> > Ravensbruck (Bradenburg, north of Berlin): Here still in January
> > 1945 a gas chamber was established;  the number of the people killed
> > in it was at least 2300.
> >
> > Dachau (Upper Bavaria, northeast of Munich): During the
establishment of
> > a new house of cremation in 1942 also a gas chamber was established
in
> > it
> > in which in connection with the medical experiments of the chief
company
> > commander of SS Dr. Rascher also a few experimental gassings were
> > undertaken,
> > as more recent research has confirmed. (On that see Gunther Kimmel:
> > The Concentration Camp Dachau. A study of the Nazi crimes of
violence in
> > Bavaria in the NS-time II, edited by Martin Broszat and Elke
Froehlich,
> > Munich, R. Oldenburg Press, 1979, P. 391.) Larger gassing operations
> > have not taken place in Dachau.
> >
> > The above mentioned numbers of the people killed in the gas
chambers of
> > the individual camps are only approximations.  They also only refer
to
> > the
> > people killed in gassing operations. The number of the Jews killed
in
> > Europe due to the effects of the Nazi tyranny amounts, according to
the
> > newest research to at least 5.29 million. Possibly, however, also
more
> > than six million.
> >
> > Philip Mathews
>
>
> A well known forgery...nothing but lies!

HeHeHe. Nice try.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 07:57:39 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=826
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>
> Part I
>
>  Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney
> (1998),  footnote #96:
>  A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the Jewish
>  take-over and control of the world would be the writings of Douglas
>  Reed, especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part Two
of Far
>  and Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost and
>  Found" in the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The
Controversy of
> Zion,
>  along with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The World's
> Foremost
>  Problem.
>
>
> Michael Snead  wrote:
>
>         Jewish take over of the world!  What a joke to believe that
the Jews
> had nothing other in mind than to enslave the entire world by their
monetary
> control.

What monetary control? More mindless conspiracy nonsense. Do you teach
your children this foolishness?

 >Only the dimmest of the dim would believe anything else. Only a
> dimwitted Jew with the Talmud as his Holy (sic) writings would think
that no
> one could see through the chameleon race.

True followers of the Lord don't condemn people based on their race.
You are an unChristian hater.

> A Jew has to deny these facts and
> refute them with vigor because of the power of the Aryans people.

There have been no facts presented, only distortions which I have
pointed out for all to see. Your ignorance of the subject matter
prevents you from saying anything specific on the matter.

 To admit to
> such idiocy in public would be fatal to the Jewish race in both
Hemispheres.
> Ms. Zimmerman apparently is willing to tell the truth, unlike the
"chameleon"
> on this list who is a Talmud believer and a "Holohoax denier."

Ms. Zimmerman lied and distorted the the Auschwitz numbers in the
diary. Even knowledgeable deniers of the Holocaust would be embarrassed
to post such obvious drivel.

 Ms Zimmerman
> is willing to expose the Jews for what they really are and only in
doing so
> by telling the truth. Ms Zimmerman I thank God for the bearers of the
truth
> such as yourself.

More general nonsensical commentary from the willfully ignorant, hoping
to substitute talk for knowledge.

>
>
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>
>  There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust
never
> existed.
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
>
> This is going to  to be good! Pay attention here!
>
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>
>  Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
>  Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the
> most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only
11,000
> people (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by
the
> Germans at the time of the Russian advance in 1945.
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
>
>     Nice going. Not only does the book refer to the size of the camp,
but the
> Jews in this  particular camp had a choice to stay in the camp and
wait for
> the Russian liberators or leave with those nasty, mean, Nazis (sic).

It does not refer to the size of the camp. It refers to the number of
prisoners remaining in the camp at the end just before the Soviets
liberated it. Much research and writing has been done on this topic,
but it would be too much to expect you to study any of it before making
ignorant pronouncements.

 The
> majority of the Jews who could travel left with the Germans.

Yes, because as the Jews have said, they didn't believe the Nazis,
believing instead that if they had opted to stay they would have been
killed. You are attempting to offer a rationale for their decision
which is not true.

I know that a
> Jew can take a five dollar bill and after he has swindled a dozen or
so
> people be a millionaire. Like the way the Russian (Jewish) Mafia in
Russia
> has done with the IMF's 15 billion dollars and Mr. Frankel who was
caught
> today(9-5-99) after embezzling 200 million from insurance funds.

Mere hateful, antisemitic ranting. This person needs some kind of
professional help.

 However, the
> Jews count about the way Louis Farahkhan counted at the 241,000 man
march a
> few years ago and threatened to sue if the figures weren't raised to
a
> million. In Germany there were only 500,000 Jews total. Let's
see....hmmm
> 500,000 times the 12 tribes of Israel is 6 million.

More ignorance! The Nazis killed Europe's Jews, not just Germany's, so
the number of German Jews is irrelevant. Do you normally get away with
such obvious lies? Do you lie to Him as well?

 Plus interest on four
> years is 6,355,000 Jews. So then the 6 million that weren't there to
begin
> with that are accounted for being dead and the 355,000 interest that
we owe
> the Jews...Let's see, my figuring comes up with about 145,000 actual
> casualties.

And your mathematical abilities mirror your historical abilities.

>
>
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
> Certainly, compared to Spielberg's film, Schindler's List (which
Emilie
> Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full of lies),
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
>
> Another truth from a WITNESS

A lie.

>
>
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
were
> systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
>
> The correct interpretation of that number and the numbers throughout
the
> war have now been provided, demonstrating the Jewish numbers silly.

No interpretation of the numbers have been provided and couldn't
possibly be provided by an ignoramous who states that Auschwitz could
only hold 11,000 people!

>
> Ms Zimmerman wrote:
>  Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have
had
>  hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137
> people PER HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been
exterminated at
> such
> small camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly
impossible
> considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and
> The Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were
killed
> by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
>  Only an ignorant Jewish Racist Talmud reading intolerant fool would
post
> otherwise.

Anyone aware of the facts would post otherwise. The post from the
Institute for Contemporary History of Germany lists the major camps and
the death toll. It has the benefit of being based on historical
knowledge, not antisemitic animus. Ms. Zimmerman's lie about the
numbers killed by the German army can be easily seen by consulting
basic texts on WWII.

>
> Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
> (see p.397-400 of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People
who would
> believe the Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated
by
> Hitler
> must
>  KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY
FEW
> OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
> You  know what you're talking about Ms Zimmerman. The
Auschwitz-Birkenau camp
> was was first of all only large enough to hold 11,000 people.

A falsehood, and not even supported by the diary entry she distorted.
The camp held in excess of 100,000 people at a time and transport
records record more than 1.4 million Jews shipped to Auschwitz. Where
did they go?

 Only a fool
> would believe that the Nazi's built accommodations for the Jews when
they
> were only going to kill them.

Nonsense. Auschwitz-Birkenau was also a major labor camp and many Jews
worked for a time before dying or being gassed. Laborers need some form
of housing. Much of this camp still exists of course, and the
construction documents for the camp do as well. It says much about the
desperation of Zimmerman and Snead that they are willing to lie about
such a documented fact, hoping mere assertion will be accepted. I
wonder what else they are willing to lie about?

 Only a fool would believe that with a war
> effort taking place, the Nazi's were moving Jews from here to there
and back
> and forth and around and through and on and on and on.

Only a fool would deny what there is extensive records for, such as
transport documents, corroborated by the testimony of Nazis such as
Eichmann who was in charge of that very function. But don't let me
interrupt your fantasy!

>
>  Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
>  broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that
> when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following
WWII,
> he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic
tells
> us that  25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In
fact,
> it
> doesn't even equal 600,000.
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
> Ms Zimmerman, Jewish Math is amazing isn't it?

You mean irrelevant don't you. She picks a small camp that wasn't a
death camp, assumes the total who died at a non-death camp is a
suitable average, and then goes her merry way! The 5 major death camps
of Poland, as well as others where gassing took place are outlined in
the post "German Institute of Contemporary History".

>
>
> Ms Zimmerman wrote:
>  Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth is
>  regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that
six
>  million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not
> stand the test of the available data, nor of common sense.
>
>
> Michael Snead wrote:
> It doesn't stand the test very well at all. What does stand the test
is Ms.
> Zimmerman's ability to tick off a chameleon. She clearly enhances her
> audiences
> intelligence in posting great information and evidently will post any
truth,
> no matter
> what!!!

SHe posted one figure form a diary, distorting what it meant, and from
that point on made up everything else. I suppose that's fine with you
as long as the result is to smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis.

 To smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis is the right thing to do after
> what the Jewish lies have done to such a great country such as
Germany.

Jews helped make Germany a great country. The German people paid a
great price for following Hitler and the Nazis. That you and Zimmerman
would like to see Nazism rehabilitated tells us all we need to know
about your "Christian" ideals.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Es
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:08:10 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=827
> In a message dated 9/5/99 10:49:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << 5.29 million >>
>
>     Now your moving in the right direction.

How typical of you to lie and distort in the very first sentence!  The
section said:

The number of the Jews killed in Europe due to the effects of the Nazi
tyranny amounts, according to the newest research to at least 5.29
million. Possibly, however, also more than six million.

>...considering that the allied
> forces were continually bombing refineries and that gasoline and
diesel were
> being rationed

Allied bombing had no affect on the camps until the very end of the war.

> and also the fact that the manpower to remove these bodies,

You really know nothing of this, do you? They had massive manpower.
They were called Jews. In the camps Jews did all the work, emptying the
gas chambers and manning the crematoria, and disposing of bodies and
ash. Your desperate attempt to find an argument would meet with more
success if you were to familiarize yourself with a basic understanding
of the history.

 and the purpose
> of building the consentration camps was for housing them not to kill
the
> Nazis surely would have had lesser facilities to kill the Jews and
not wasted
> their time building a place for them.

You might try this again in English once you figure out what point you
had.

 Do you realize how rediculous the Jews
> reasoning for the death camps are?

It's not the Jews reasoning, it's everyone's reasoning, including
historians. Only a few fringe kooks like yourself believe otherwise.

 No Zyklon B was ever detected in the
> chambers anyway.

False. Residues of HCN were detected on the walls of every gas chamber
at Auscwitz, including those which had been exposed to the elements for
decades. Another lie shot down.

 Talk about posting Lies. Good God almighty will deal with
> you in the hereafter...no I take that back...You will be seeing your
Holy
> Father... Satan.

It is you, draping yourself in the garments of the Lord and lying and
hating who will have much to answer for. He sees through you easily!

 May the Lord Jesus Christ, who your people crucified on the
> cross

Another lie. The Romans crucified Jesus.

 >and died for your sins, too, have mercy on your morbid soul.

The last thing I need is for a liar and hater saying a pray for me.
You'd best pray for forgiveness and turn to the true word of God.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:22:06 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=829
> David,
>     I have visited your website and  and will read all that you will
provide.
> To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make
one a
> hater.

It does when you consistently choose to believe lies and smears of Jews
over the obvious facts. Such a consistent choice cannot be due to
chance, but reveals a deep seated animus which itself dictates what you
will accept as truth rather than assessing issues to determine truth
from lies first.

 I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
> however that does not make me a hatemonger.

It is a manifestation of your hate, not a cause of it. You might as
well deny the First World War. Such denial in the face of proven
history is revealing, especially since the event happens to involve
Jews. Do you also deny the Armenian genocide?


>     For years I was a Dallas Cowboy fan (Tom Landry era) and my
friends were
> Washington Redskin fans, now when the Redskins were lucky enough to
beat the
> Cowboys I was not to be convinced that the Redskins were a better
football
> team than the Cowboys, no matter what!  I wasn't a hater of Redskin
fans, I
> just didn't like the Redskins.

No wonder you have trouble with higher order thinking.

>     Because I do not agree with you or Philip Mathews doesn't make me
hate
> you or Philip. Do you hate me? I am of the belief that I must tell
what is in
> my heart and not sit idoly by and allow, what I feel to be, a
fabrication to
> be glorified.

It is you who engage in fabrications, whether of your own design or
others. When your errors are pointed out, you rant and refuse to be
educated. The inevitable conclusion is you wish to be ignorant in your
hatred of Jews.

>     If I have no freedom to belive what I belive without being called
a hater
> then I have no freedom.

You have the freedom to believe it. And others have the freedom to
refute you.

 >If you are the involved with the "Mind Police" then
> you have a suspect right here. I will engage with you a civil dialog
if you
> wish. I will read all that you have on your website.

Get started, you have much to learn.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:26:51 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

David,
    Very well said and thank you  for giving me that perspective. There is so
much to learn from everyone that is in a group that if one will dispute
everything that is said even his process of erudition is impeded.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:32:06 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=830
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Snead wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806
> >
> > > The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate,
> > lies and
> > > their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the
> > non Jew
> > > and even goes as far as to call them racial names.

The vile hatred comes from pretend Christian such as yourself. What you
say about the Talmud is a lie, one demonstrated over and over again.

> >
> > Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been
exposed
> > as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews.
Notice
> > he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because he
knows
> > nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some
website
> > because they said bad things about Jews.
> >
> >  The old trick of the Jew
> > > is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic.

A Jew hater is an antisemite. As are you for telling lies about the
Talmud. You do that because you wish others to hate Jews as you do. For
that you will one day answer to Him.

> >
> > The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
> > antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't discuss the
> > Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
> > exposed.
> >
> >  >Then when
> > > you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence.

There doesn seem to be a high correlation between low intelligence and
idiotic belief. Less so with racism and antisemitism, but still
substantial.

> > They
> > > accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your
remarks
> > to twist
> > > and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions
that
> > you ask.

They accuse you of being what you are. It is your kind who twist facts
and remarks to suit your purposes. When this is pointed out, the
frustration usually results in posts such as this.

> >
> > None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of well
> > known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
> > response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of his
> > convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we know
> > why he can't, don't we!
> >
>
> "I demolished them"???....appears to me you plagerized
> another persons webpage and are now claiming the credit!

I don't mean to say I wrote them. Have you seen none of your allies
post from other sources?  I note no attempt to rebut the answers.

>
> Around here we call it...LIAR! LIAR!...pants on fire!

A state you are well acquainted with.

>
> Here is one of your statements from another post....
>
> "Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> authors and websites and pretend its learning."
>
> you should practice what you preach...

I do. What I posted rebuts the lies and you are unable to respond.

>
> And here is another of your statements....
>
> "And I don't attempt to use scripture to support by views,
> there is too much of that by people who feel the need to
> buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord. "
>
> Your credability is sinking faster the the fecus of a whale!

Based on what. I've not used scripture to support my views. Do you have
trouble reading?

>
> And as far as you "destroying" any thing....it is just
> a figment of your imagination....the source of the material
> that you plagerized is from the Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
> Edition of the talmud (a real bogus piece of material)....

Unsupported allegation, as usual.

>
> You need to confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God
> and be baptized for the remission of sins!....

You need to worry about your own soul. You are the worst kind of
sinner, a hater who hates in the name of the Lord. He will hold you to
account and you will answer for it.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 08:40:25 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Antisemitic deniers of the Holocaust often claim that the event itself
and the many facts surrounding it are the invention of Jews. This of
course is nonsense, since Jews do not write history, historians do.
This tactic in fact turns reality on its head, since it is deniers who
represent a fringe collection of pseudo-Christians, neo-Nazis, and
antisemites. The overwhelming mass of humanity knows the historical
event of the Holocaust to be as proven as any other historical event.
Let's look at what professional historians say about denial.

The History Department at Duke University, responding to a CODOH ad,
unanimously adopted and published a statement noting: "That historians
are constantly engaged in historical revision is certainly correct;
however, what historians do is very different from this advertisement.
Historical revision of major events. . . is not concerned with the
actuality of these events; rather, it concerns their historical
interpretation - their causes and consequences generally. There is no
debate among historians about the actuality of the Holocaust... there
can be no doubt that the Nazi state systematically put to death
millions of Jews, Gypsies, political radicals and other people."

David Oshinsky and Michael Curtis of Rutgers University have written,
"If one group advertises that the Holocaust never happened, another can
buy space to insist that American Blacks were never enslaved. The
stakes are high because college newspapers may soon be flooded with ads
that present discredited assertions as if they were part of normal
historical debate. If the
Holocaust is not a fact, then nothing is a fact...."

Peter Hayes, Associate Professor of History and German at Northwestern
University, responded to a Smith ad by stating, "[B]ear in mind that
not a single one of the advances in our knowledge since 1945 has been
contributed by the self-styled 'Revisionists' whom Smith represents.
That is so because contributing to knowledge is decidedly not their
purpose . . . .
This ad is an assault on the intellectual integrity ... of
academicians, whom Smith and his ilk wish to browbeat. It is also a
throwback to the worst sorts of conspiracy-mongering of anti-Semitic
broadside.... Is it plausible that so great and longstanding a
conspiracy of repression could really have functioned? ... That
everybody with a Ph.D. active in the field - German, American,
Canadian, British, Israeli, etc. - is in on it together?... If one
suspects it is, might it not be wise to do a bit of checking about
Smith, his organization and his charges before running so implausible
an ad?"

Perhaps most significantly, in December 1991, the governing council of
the American Historical Association (AHA), the nation's largest and
oldest professional organization for historians, unanimously approved a
statement condemning the Holocaust-denial movement, stating, "No
serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place." The
council's action came in response
to a petition circulated among members calling for an official
statement against Holocaust-denial propaganda; the petition had been
signed by more than 300 members attending the organization's annual
conference. Moreover, in 1994, the AHA reaffirmed its position in a
press release which stated that "the Association will not provide a
forum for views that are, at best, a form of academic fraud."

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:13:45 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

To make this easy to read I did my reply in font 12 bold lettering.
Michael Snead....
14/88

In a message dated 9/6/99 10:58:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Snead wrote:


 philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=826
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 >
 > Part I
 >
 >  Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney
 > (1998),  footnote #96:
 >  A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the Jewish
 >  take-over and control of the world would be the writings of Douglas
 >  Reed, especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part Two
 of Far
 >  and Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost and
 >  Found" in the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The
 Controversy of
 > Zion,
 >  along with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The World's
 > Foremost
 >  Problem.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead  wrote:
 >
 >         Jewish take over of the world!  What a joke to believe that
 the Jews
 > had nothing other in mind than to enslave the entire world by their
 monetary
 > control.

 What monetary control? More mindless conspiracy nonsense. Do you teach
 your children this foolishness?

 If you refute it , it must be the truth.

  >Only the dimmest of the dim would believe anything else. Only a
 > dimwitted Jew with the Talmud as his Holy (sic) writings would think
 that no
 > one could see through the chameleon race.

 True followers of the Lord don't condemn people based on their race.
 You are an unChristian hater.
 What would you know about true followers of the Lord? Your people have lied
about him for centuries and now you are a Judge? HaHaHaHa!!!!


 > A Jew has to deny these facts and
 > refute them with vigor because of the power of the Aryans people.

 There have been no facts presented, only distortions which I have
 pointed out for all to see. Your ignorance of the subject matter
 prevents you from saying anything specific on the matter.

What you call distortions are Facts...you are blinded by the lies of your
past.

  To admit to
 > such idiocy in public would be fatal to the Jewish race in both
 Hemispheres.
 > Ms. Zimmerman apparently is willing to tell the truth, unlike the
 "chameleon"
 > on this list who is a Talmud believer and a "Holohoax denier."

 Ms. Zimmerman lied and distorted the the Auschwitz numbers in the
 diary. Even knowledgeable deniers of the Holocaust would be embarrassed
 to post such obvious drivel.

 You are a Holohoax denier and that is were you are going wrong.


  Ms Zimmerman
 > is willing to expose the Jews for what they really are and only in
 doing so
 > by telling the truth. Ms Zimmerman I thank God for the bearers of the
 truth
 > such as yourself.

 More general nonsensical commentary from the willfully ignorant, hoping
 to substitute talk for knowledge.

 I was thinking the same thing , so just read and learn.
 >
 >
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 >
 >  There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust
 never
 > existed.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 >
 > This is going to  to be good! Pay attention here!
 >
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 >
 >  Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
 >  Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the
 > most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only
 11,000
 > people (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by
 the
 > Germans at the time of the Russian advance in 1945.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 >
 >     Nice going. Not only does the book refer to the size of the camp,
 but the
 > Jews in this  particular camp had a choice to stay in the camp and
 wait for
 > the Russian liberators or leave with those nasty, mean, Nazis (sic).

 It does not refer to the size of the camp. It refers to the number of
 prisoners remaining in the camp at the end just before the Soviets
 liberated it. Much research and writing has been done on this topic,
 but it would be too much to expect you to study any of it before making
 ignorant pronouncements.

 Again you try to cover up your lack of knowledge on this subject by trying
to accuse others of doing exactly what you are doing.



  The
 > majority of the Jews who could travel left with the Germans.

 Yes, because as the Jews have said, they didn't believe the Nazis,
 believing instead that if they had opted to stay they would have been
 killed. You are attempting to offer a rationale for their decision
 which is not true.

 Attempting? It has been said and the author of the book said it and now you
claim to know more than the author? Does your intelligence (sic) ever cease?
Ha Ha Ha Ha

 I know that a
 > Jew can take a five dollar bill and after he has swindled a dozen or
 so
 > people be a millionaire. Like the way the Russian (Jewish) Mafia in
 Russia
 > has done with the IMF's 15 billion dollars and Mr. Frankel who was
 caught
 > today(9-5-99) after embezzling 200 million from insurance funds.


 Mere hateful, antisemitic ranting. This person needs some kind of
 professional help.

 Truth is not ranting and the profession help is needed for you  to help cope
with the truth.

  However, the
 > Jews count about the way Louis Farahkhan counted at the 241,000 man
 march a
 > few years ago and threatened to sue if the figures weren't raised to
 a
 > million. In Germany there were only 500,000 Jews total. Let's
 see....hmmm
 > 500,000 times the 12 tribes of Israel is 6 million.

 More ignorance! The Nazis killed Europe's Jews, not just Germany's, so
 the number of German Jews is irrelevant. Do you normally get away with
 such obvious lies? Do you lie to Him as well?

 Of all people you wouldn't know ignorance if it bit you in the face.

  Plus interest on four
 > years is 6,355,000 Jews. So then the 6 million that weren't there to
 begin
 > with that are accounted for being dead and the 355,000 interest that
 we owe
 > the Jews...Let's see, my figuring comes up with about 145,000 actual
 > casualties.

 And your mathematical abilities mirror your historical abilities.


At least I have abilities and not dis-abilities. The time will come in this
country when they will have special parking beside the expectant mothers for
those who believe in the Holocaust.
 >
 >
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 > Certainly, compared to Spielberg's film, Schindler's List (which
 Emilie
 > Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full of lies),
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 >
 > Another truth from a WITNESS

 A lie.

 The Truth...Hallalujah!!!!Blessed be the name of the lord which is Jesus!!!!
 >
 >
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 >  and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
 were
 > systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 >
 > The correct interpretation of that number and the numbers throughout
 the
 > war have now been provided, demonstrating the Jewish numbers silly.

 No interpretation of the numbers have been provided and couldn't
 possibly be provided by an ignoramous who states that Auschwitz could
 only hold 11,000 people!

 Only an Ignoramus would believe otherwise...Special parking is coming...LOL

 >
 > Ms Zimmerman wrote:
 >  Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have
 had
 >  hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137
 > people PER HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been
 exterminated at
 > such
 > small camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly
 impossible
 > considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and
 > The Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were
 killed
 > by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 >  Only an ignorant Jewish Racist Talmud reading intolerant fool would
 post
 > otherwise.

 Anyone aware of the facts would post otherwise. The post from the
 Institute for Contemporary History of Germany lists the major camps and
 the death toll. It has the benefit of being based on historical
 knowledge, not antisemitic animus. Ms. Zimmerman's lie about the
 numbers killed by the German army can be easily seen by consulting
 basic texts on WWII.

Ms Zimmerman, you have out done your self...You will be the cause of special
parking for Philip and again you have him back pedaling
 >
 > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 > (see p.397-400 of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People
 who would
 > believe the Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated
 by
 > Hitler
 > must
 >  KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY
 FEW
 > OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 > You  know what you're talking about Ms Zimmerman. The
 Auschwitz-Birkenau camp
 > was was first of all only large enough to hold 11,000 people.

 A falsehood, and not even supported by the diary entry she distorted.
 The camp held in excess of 100,000 people at a time and transport
 records record more than 1.4 million Jews shipped to Auschwitz. Where
 did they go?

Bermuda?

  Only a fool
 > would believe that the Nazi's built accommodations for the Jews when
 they
 > were only going to kill them.

 Nonsense. Auschwitz-Birkenau was also a major labor camp and many Jews
 worked for a time before dying or being gassed. Laborers need some form
 of housing. Much of this camp still exists of course, and the
 construction documents for the camp do as well. It says much about the
 desperation of Zimmerman and Snead that they are willing to lie about
 such a documented fact, hoping mere assertion will be accepted. I
 wonder what else they are willing to lie about?

You cannot deny the truth and you know it...You fear for your removal from
every country in the world...



  Only a fool would believe that with a war
 > effort taking place, the Nazi's were moving Jews from here to there
 and back
 > and forth and around and through and on and on and on.

 Only a fool would deny what there is extensive records for, such as
 transport documents, corroborated by the testimony of Nazis such as
 Eichmann who was in charge of that very function. But don't let me
 interrupt your fantasy!

 Only a fool would believe the latter...Your fantasy is the HOLOCau$T.
 >
 >  Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
 >  On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
 >  broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that
 > when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following
 WWII,
 > he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple arithmetic
 tells
 > us that  25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000. In
 fact,
 > it
 > doesn't even equal 600,000.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 > Ms Zimmerman, Jewish Math is amazing isn't it?

 You mean irrelevant don't you. She picks a small camp that wasn't a
 death camp, assumes the total who died at a non-death camp is a
 suitable average, and then goes her merry way! The 5 major death camps
 of Poland, as well as others where gassing took place are outlined in
 the post "German Institute of Contemporary History".


Yeah Yeah Yeah...Isn't it something how there were ten supposed death camps
and they were all in Soviet(Jewish Controlled) Russia? Amazing Grace how
Sweet the Sound....I LOVE IT!!!!! Are you trying to get a wheel chair too?
 >
 >
 > Ms Zimmerman wrote:
 >  Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth is
 >  regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that
 six
 >  million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not
 > stand the test of the available data, nor of common sense.
 >
 >
 > Michael Snead wrote:
 > It doesn't stand the test very well at all. What does stand the test
 is Ms.
 > Zimmerman's ability to tick off a chameleon. She clearly enhances her
 > audiences
 > intelligence in posting great information and evidently will post any
 truth,
 > no matter
 > what!!!

 SHe posted one figure form a diary, distorting what it meant, and from
 that point on made up everything else. I suppose that's fine with you
 as long as the result is to smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis.
Pity, Pity,  the Jews have smeared the Nazi's long enough. Now that the
tables are being turned you want to act like a victim.

  To smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis is the right thing to do after
 > what the Jewish lies have done to such a great country such as
 Germany.

 Jews helped make Germany a great country. The German people paid a
 great price for following Hitler and the Nazis. That you and Zimmerman
 would like to see Nazism rehabilitated tells us all we need to know
 about your "Christian" ideals.

 Philip Mathews

NOW PHILIP YOU ARE NOT A JUDGE, JUST A FUTURE HANDICAP PARKING PARTICIPANT. I
love all of God's children even the Nazi's. Do you not love the Nazi's too?
Now don't lie to us.

 Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Es
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:20:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

My answers again are in the size 12 lettering and bold.
Michael Snead
14/88

Your repetitive nature really bores me but I will entertain you with my
truthful inserts again.

In a message dated 9/6/99 11:09:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Snead wrote:


 philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=827
 > In a message dated 9/5/99 10:49:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
 > philnancy@aol.com writes:
 >
 > << 5.29 million >>
 >
 >     Now your moving in the right direction.

 How typical of you to lie and distort in the very first sentence!  The
 section said:

No distorting just fact

The number of the Jews killed in Europe due to the effects of the Nazi
 tyranny amounts, according to the newest research to at least 5.29
 million. Possibly, however, also more than six million.

Possibly?  Meaning there is a chance that it MIGHT BE...The merest chance,
perhaps


 >...considering that the allied
 > forces were continually bombing refineries and that gasoline and
 diesel were
 > being rationed

 Allied bombing had no affect on the camps until the very end of the war.

 They bombed all supply routes, refineries, factories, ....

 > and also the fact that the manpower to remove these bodies,


 You really know nothing of this, do you? They had massive manpower.
 They were called Jews. In the camps Jews did all the work, emptying the
 gas chambers and manning the crematoria, and disposing of bodies and
 ash. Your desperate attempt to find an argument would meet with more
 success if you were to familiarize yourself with a basic understanding
 of the history.

Massive Manpower, I thought that the mean Nazis were killing the Jews, You
make no sense at all. Use logic Philip, don't let other people feed you their
lies.


and the purpose
 > of building the consentration camps was for housing them not to kill
 the
 > Nazis surely would have had lesser facilities to kill the Jews and
 not wasted
 > their time building a place for them.

 You might try this again in English once you figure out what point you
 had.

 You might try the fact that the Jews had a place built for them to stay in.
If the Nazis were to kill them they would have let the winter weather kill
them and claimed that they froze to death because of allied bombing. so don't
be so obstinent.

  Do you realize how ridiculous the Jews
 > reasoning for the death camps are?

 It's not the Jews reasoning, it's everyone's reasoning, including
 historians. Only a few fringe kooks like yourself believe otherwise.

Kooks , now ,Philip,  are we getting testy?

No Zyklon B was ever detected in the
 > chambers anyway.

 False. Residues of HCN were detected on the walls of every gas chamber
 at Auscwitz, including those which had been exposed to the elements for
 decades. Another lie shot down.

 No detection's of the sort were found, maybe delicing agents...another truth
uplifted!

  Talk about posting Lies. Good God almighty will deal with
 > you in the hereafter...no I take that back...You will be seeing your
 Holy
 > Father... Satan.

 It is you, draping yourself in the garments of the Lord and lying and
 hating who will have much to answer for. He sees through you easily!

 The Lord God Almighty sees through us all, and as I have said before, you
are not the Judge nor my Savior of my soul. You have never heard me say I
hated anyone so what is your point?

  May the Lord Jesus Christ, who your people crucified on the
 > cross

 Another lie. The Romans crucified Jesus.

 Read Mark 15:1-14 The Chief priest carried Jesus to Pontius Pilate. Pilate
ask Jesus if he was the King of the Jews and Jesus replied,"Thou sayest it."
and the chief priests accused him of many things.. Pilate was going to
release someone and I feel that he wanted to release Jesus but he asked the
multitude  and they said Crucify Him. The Jews were the false accusers, they
were the false witnesses, and they were the prosecution.

  >and died for your sins, too, have mercy on your morbid soul.

 The last thing I need is for a liar and hater saying a pray for me.
 You'd best pray for forgiveness and turn to the true word of God.

 Philip Mathews

  Let him that is without sin cast the first stone. John 8:7
Michael Snead14/88



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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:47:53 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 11:24:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com writes:

<< Snead wrote:

 philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=829
 > David,
 >     I have visited your website and  and will read all that you will
 provide.
 > To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make
 one a
 > hater.

 It does when you consistently choose to believe lies and smears of Jews
 over the obvious facts. Such a consistent choice cannot be due to
 chance, but reveals a deep seated animus which itself dictates what you
 will accept as truth rather than assessing issues to determine truth
 from lies first.

 I believe the truth, you are the blinded soul.....oops you are a Jew though.

  I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
 > however that does not make me a hatemonger.

 It is a manifestation of your hate, not a cause of it. You might as
 well deny the First World War. Such denial in the face of proven
 history is revealing, especially since the event happens to involve
 Jews. Do you also deny the Armenian genocide?

What I haven't denied is the fact that Jewish controlled Soviet Russia
blatantly killed any where from 66-112 million people. Some of your so called
mass graves that you say have been found are probably some of the people.
Armenian Genocide? That didn't happen because my neighbor is Armenian. Ha HA
HA What a bonafide liar. Genocide...an obvious Jewish word since it first
appeared in Europe in 1944 and meaning the deliberate and systematic
destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

 >     For years I was a Dallas Cowboy fan (Tom Landry era) and my
 friends were
 > Washington Redskin fans, now when the Redskins were lucky enough to
 beat the
 > Cowboys I was not to be convinced that the Redskins were a better
 football
 > team than the Cowboys, no matter what!  I wasn't a hater of Redskin
 fans, I
 > just didn't like the Redskins.

 No wonder you have trouble with higher order thinking.
 Or understanding the lower mentalities that feverishly feed on propaganda.
The key word above being,"was," meaning in English past tense. ie. I was a
believer of the holocaust propaganda until I saw the light....Meaning The
Jews have Lied to me as a child but when I became a Man I put away childish
things....like the holocaust. I am now a Holohoax believer.

 >     Because I do not agree with you or Philip Mathews doesn't make me
 hate
 > you or Philip. Do you hate me? I am of the belief that I must tell
 what is in
 > my heart and not sit idoly by and allow, what I feel to be, a
 fabrication to
 > be glorified.


 It is you who engage in fabrications, whether of your own design or
 others. When your errors are pointed out, you rant and refuse to be
 educated. The inevitable conclusion is you wish to be ignorant in your
 hatred of Jews.

Now this is funny, I engage in fabrications? No I do not believe the
fabrications. You call educating me is believing your lies from the pits of
Hell? Now answer the question, Do You Hate me Philip? Just answer the
question.I hate no one...though I hate their lies.

>     If I have no freedom to believe what I believe without being called
 a hater
 > then I have no freedom.

 You have the freedom to believe it. And others have the freedom to
 refute you.

 And likewise....I have freedom and thank you for giving it to me and I hate
your lies and will continue to refute those atrocious lies that you spin.

 >If you are the involved with the "Mind Police" then
 > you have a suspect right here. I will engage with you a civil dialog
 if you
 > wish. I will read all that you have on your website.

 Get started, you have much to learn.

 I have read most of the propoganda of the Jews so to learn anything from you
or your kind would be like going to a government controlled school to get an
education.
 Philip Mathews



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Subject: [13texan] Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 10:52:24 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

First, I appreciate Michael Snead's post after mine, but the information I
provided was not written by me. Here's part II, and to little Philip, "Heil
Hitler," and "Go, Eric, go." JM 14/88
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      It is an interesting fact that the number of so-called
"persecuted Jews" KEEPS INCREASING.  Hal Greenwald, program
director for the Hillel Foundation at Duke University, a Jewish student
group, has been promoting the idea that NINE MILLION JEWS WERE
EXTERMINATED IN HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS (New York Times, Nov. 9, 1991, AP).
NOW IT'S 9 MILLION AND GROWING...JUST LIKE OUR DEBT/TAX MONEY SUPPLY...THE
NUMBERS JUST KEEP COMING OUT OF THIN AIR.  Even The Diary of Anne Frank
gives data which indicates that a much smaller number of Jews were put into
the German work camps.  The idea that six million Jews were slaughtered by
Hitler is about as believable as it is to believe that your friendly local
banker doesn't print the money he loans to you.
      After presenting well documented and authoritative data from
many sources, including many Jewish sources, under the heading
entitled "Six Million Lost and Found" in his book Behind the Scene,
Douglas Reed simply says, "The estimate (that the number is six million) is
historically valueless".  Yet, the Jews continue to keep the truth well
hidden, even about their debt/tax slavery money system and Jewish Slave Law.
  Is it anymore plausible that six million Jews were slaughtered by the
Germans than it is to believe that General
Eisenhower slaughtered a million German POWS? The controversy
continues to rage over the publication of Other Losses by Canadian
author James Bacque, who documented  that while a million German
prisoners were on a near-starvation diet, a Red cross train from Geneva
loaded with food parcels enroute to feed those German prisoners was forced
to turn back so the food could be used to feed "displaced persons" (meaning
Jews) in Germany. And while we are looking at "atrocities", who can forget
Agent Orange in Viet Nam, or the treatment of Japanese Americans here at
home during WWII, or the Aleutian I sland scenario.
      Atrocities are atrocities, whether committed against Jews, or
against the Vietnamese by American fire bombing, or against Japanese
Americans (as in the infamous WWII American concentration camps),
or whether against the Arabs (as in the massive bombing of Iraq during
the Gulf War), or against the German people (as in the slaughter of the
German people by the massive American and allied bombing of city
after city in Germany during WWII, and the Jewish holocaust against the
Germans following WWII), or, whether it is the atrocity committed
against Jesus by the Jews, or whether it is an atrocity againstany other
person or groups of persons by anybody else... atrocities are atrocities,
and the Jews are not entitled to any special sympathy over another people.
Two wrongs have never made a right.
      Perverting and twisting the truth about the number of Jews
who suffered during WWII continues to be very effective propaganda in
helping to deceive the American people into believing that Jewish Slave Law
is ordained by God so the "chosen people" can enslave the world.
      In May of 1994, I received a letter from Captain Jacques H.
Dore D.S.C. (ret.), Conseil Régional de Bretagne, Conseiller Municipal
de Boulogne, France, which said, in part, the following: "Whenin the
Free French Naval Mission in Hamburg (Germany) in 1946, the U.S.
estimate of the holocaust showed some 600,000 victims including
gypsies, members of the resistances in Europe, etc. (emphas is mine).
Now, this very day the estimate published by the (Jewish)lobbies
amounts to more than 6 million. No doubt in the year 2050 we will hear
of 10 million victims".

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:54:00 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the mirror?
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Douglas Reed
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:08:41 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

One on Willie's list asked me this question:
Hi,

I am not familiar with Douglas Reed's book BEHIND THE SCENE, but would like
to get hold of it. Could you give me the publisher's name and ISBN number?
Is it still in print?

Thanks!
~~~~~~~
Me: I'm answering this to this person as well as to the list to provide
information to all on the IHR:

I don't know if this book is still in print. The article sent by me to
Willie's list was not written by me. I'm sending the article in 3-4
installments, though. You might be able to find something on Douglas Reed
on-line. Otherwise, call the Institute for Historical Review at: (949)
631-1490. They're in California. This # will give you their Noontide Press.
Ask them about Mr. Reed's books. There is one called, "Controversy of Zion"
which I believe they still have. Ask for their catalogue.
Best Regards,
JM

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:11:35 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=839

> To make this easy to read I did my reply in font 12 bold lettering.
> Michael Snead....
> 14/88
>
>
> In a message dated 9/6/99 10:58:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Snead wrote:
>
>
>  philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=826
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  >
>  > Part I
>  >
>  >  Excerpt from "Freedom From Bible Slave Law", by L. Clifford Cheney
>  > (1998),  footnote #96:
>  >  A good place to start understanding the Zionist aims for the
Jewish
>  >  take-over and control of the world would be the writings of
Douglas
>  >  Reed, especially his books, Behind the Scene (a reprint of Part
Two
>  of Far
>  >  and Wide), with focus on the section entitled "Six Million Lost
and
>  >  Found" in the Chapter entitled "Zionism Paramount, and The
>  Controversy of
>  > Zion,
>  >  along with Henry Ford Sr.'s book, The International Jew: The
World's
>  > Foremost
>  >  Problem.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead  wrote:
>  >
>  >         Jewish take over of the world!  What a joke to believe that
>  the Jews
>  > had nothing other in mind than to enslave the entire world by their
>  monetary
>  > control.
>
>  What monetary control? More mindless conspiracy nonsense. Do you
teach
>  your children this foolishness?
>
>  If you refute it , it must be the truth.

Ah, if being the operative word!

>
>   >Only the dimmest of the dim would believe anything else. Only a
>  > dimwitted Jew with the Talmud as his Holy (sic) writings would
think
>  that no
>  > one could see through the chameleon race.
>
>  True followers of the Lord don't condemn people based on their race.
>  You are an unChristian hater.

>  What would you know about true followers of the Lord? Your people
have lied
> about him for centuries and now you are a Judge? HaHaHaHa!!!!

Apparently more than you. And who are my people? More mindless group
hate eh. No one has lied about Him as much as you have lied about Jews
and others.

>
>
>  > A Jew has to deny these facts and
>  > refute them with vigor because of the power of the Aryans people.
>
>  There have been no facts presented, only distortions which I have
>  pointed out for all to see. Your ignorance of the subject matter
>  prevents you from saying anything specific on the matter.
>
> What you call distortions are Facts...you are blinded by the lies of
your
> past.

No they are not facts, as has been shown. You wish to believe them
because you hate Jews and you wish to believe anything which casts them
in a bad light.

>
>   To admit to
>  > such idiocy in public would be fatal to the Jewish race in both
>  Hemispheres.
>  > Ms. Zimmerman apparently is willing to tell the truth, unlike the
>  "chameleon"
>  > on this list who is a Talmud believer and a "Holohoax denier."
>
>  Ms. Zimmerman lied and distorted the the Auschwitz numbers in the
>  diary. Even knowledgeable deniers of the Holocaust would be
embarrassed
>  to post such obvious drivel.
>
>  You are a Holohoax denier and that is were you are going wrong.

More unsupported conjecture. Ms. Zimmerman's lies were shown, and you
run from discussing them.

>
>
>   Ms Zimmerman
>  > is willing to expose the Jews for what they really are and only in
>  doing so
>  > by telling the truth. Ms Zimmerman I thank God for the bearers of
the
>  truth
>  > such as yourself.
>
>  More general nonsensical commentary from the willfully ignorant,
hoping
>  to substitute talk for knowledge.
>
>  I was thinking the same thing , so just read and learn.

But you are wrong.

>  >
>  >
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  >
>  >  There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called
holocaust
>  never
>  > existed.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  >
>  > This is going to  to be good! Pay attention here!
>  >
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  >
>  >  Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
>  >  Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ,
the
>  > most notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only
>  11,000
>  > people (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated
by
>  the
>  > Germans at the time of the Russian advance in 1945.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  >
>  >     Nice going. Not only does the book refer to the size of the
camp,
>  but the
>  > Jews in this  particular camp had a choice to stay in the camp and
>  wait for
>  > the Russian liberators or leave with those nasty, mean, Nazis
(sic).
>
>  It does not refer to the size of the camp. It refers to the number of
>  prisoners remaining in the camp at the end just before the Soviets
>  liberated it. Much research and writing has been done on this topic,
>  but it would be too much to expect you to study any of it before
making
>  ignorant pronouncements.
>
>  Again you try to cover up your lack of knowledge on this subject by
trying
> to accuse others of doing exactly what you are doing.

And again you offer not a single fact, just ignorant opinion. Do you
have any facts about Auschwitz or the Holocaust? How many people were
shipped there during the war? Hmmmm?

>
>
>
>   The
>  > majority of the Jews who could travel left with the Germans.
>
>  Yes, because as the Jews have said, they didn't believe the Nazis,
>  believing instead that if they had opted to stay they would have been
>  killed. You are attempting to offer a rationale for their decision
>  which is not true.
>
>  Attempting? It has been said and the author of the book said it and
now you
> claim to know more than the author?

But that's a lie. That's not what the author said. The lie was that the
Jews preferred to go with the Nazis rather than stay with the Soviets.
That is not the decision the Jews made. More distortion and lies, have
you no shame?

 Does your intelligence (sic) ever cease?
> Ha Ha Ha Ha
>
>  I know that a
>  > Jew can take a five dollar bill and after he has swindled a dozen
or
>  so
>  > people be a millionaire. Like the way the Russian (Jewish) Mafia in
>  Russia
>  > has done with the IMF's 15 billion dollars and Mr. Frankel who was
>  caught
>  > today(9-5-99) after embezzling 200 million from insurance funds.
>
>
>  Mere hateful, antisemitic ranting. This person needs some kind of
>  professional help.
>
>  Truth is not ranting and the profession help is needed for you  to
help cope
> with the truth.

You have no truth. Only lies, as I continually demonstrate.

>
>   However, the
>  > Jews count about the way Louis Farahkhan counted at the 241,000 man
>  march a
>  > few years ago and threatened to sue if the figures weren't raised
to
>  a
>  > million. In Germany there were only 500,000 Jews total. Let's
>  see....hmmm
>  > 500,000 times the 12 tribes of Israel is 6 million.
>
>  More ignorance! The Nazis killed Europe's Jews, not just Germany's,
so
>  the number of German Jews is irrelevant. Do you normally get away
with
>  such obvious lies? Do you lie to Him as well?
>
>  Of all people you wouldn't know ignorance if it bit you in the face.

I note you have no rebuttal to the exposure of your ignorance on the
number of Jews. How typical.

>
>   Plus interest on four
>  > years is 6,355,000 Jews. So then the 6 million that weren't there
to
>  begin
>  > with that are accounted for being dead and the 355,000 interest
that
>  we owe
>  > the Jews...Let's see, my figuring comes up with about 145,000
actual
>  > casualties.
>
>  And your mathematical abilities mirror your historical abilities.
>
>
> At least I have abilities and not dis-abilities. The time will come
in this
> country when they will have special parking beside the expectant
mothers for
> those who believe in the Holocaust.

The wishful fantasy of someone who belongs to extremist fringe group of
kooks, who's beliefs place them on the outskirts of decent people, and
who will remain there.

>  >
>  >
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  > Certainly, compared to Spielberg's film, Schindler's List (which
>  Emilie
>  > Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full of lies),
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  >
>  > Another truth from a WITNESS
>
>  A lie.
>
>  The Truth...Hallalujah!!!!Blessed be the name of the lord which is
Jesus!!!

A lie, one you now use to cite the name of Jesus in what amounts to a
profanation. How Christian of you. Would you care to show some evidence
the statement was made?

>  >
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  >  and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
>  were
>  > systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  >
>  > The correct interpretation of that number and the numbers
throughout
>  the
>  > war have now been provided, demonstrating the Jewish numbers silly.
>
>  No interpretation of the numbers have been provided and couldn't
>  possibly be provided by an ignoramous who states that Auschwitz could
>  only hold 11,000 people!
>
>  Only an Ignoramus would believe otherwise...Special parking is
coming...LOL

Then post some evidence. Of course you can't, not only because it isn't
true, but even if it were, you are so ignorant of the relevant
literature, you wouldn't know where to find it!

>
>  >
>  > Ms Zimmerman wrote:
>  >  Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have
>  had
>  >  hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137
>  > people PER HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been
>  exterminated at
>  > such
>  > small camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly
>  impossible
>  > considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and
>  > The Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were
>  killed
>  > by the entire German and Japanese war machines combined during
WWII
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  >  Only an ignorant Jewish Racist Talmud reading intolerant fool
would
>  post
>  > otherwise.
>
>  Anyone aware of the facts would post otherwise. The post from the
>  Institute for Contemporary History of Germany lists the major camps
and
>  the death toll. It has the benefit of being based on historical
>  knowledge, not antisemitic animus. Ms. Zimmerman's lie about the
>  numbers killed by the German army can be easily seen by consulting
>  basic texts on WWII.
>
> Ms Zimmerman, you have out done your self...You will be the cause of
special
> parking for Philip and again you have him back pedaling

More off topic nonsense. Mr. Snead is obviously unable to discuss the
topic, being unfamiliar with the basic facts. Are you ever going to say
anything pertinent to the issue?

>  >
>  > Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  > (see p.397-400 of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People
>  who would
>  > believe the Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were
exterminated
>  by
>  > Hitler
>  > must
>  >  KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE
VERY
>  FEW
>  > OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  > You  know what you're talking about Ms Zimmerman. The
>  Auschwitz-Birkenau camp
>  > was was first of all only large enough to hold 11,000 people.
>
>  A falsehood, and not even supported by the diary entry she distorted.
>  The camp held in excess of 100,000 people at a time and transport
>  records record more than 1.4 million Jews shipped to Auschwitz. Where
>  did they go?
>
> Bermuda?

Snead admits his inability to responde.

>
>   Only a fool
>  > would believe that the Nazi's built accommodations for the Jews
when
>  they
>  > were only going to kill them.
>
>  Nonsense. Auschwitz-Birkenau was also a major labor camp and many
Jews
>  worked for a time before dying or being gassed. Laborers need some
form
>  of housing. Much of this camp still exists of course, and the
>  construction documents for the camp do as well. It says much about
the
>  desperation of Zimmerman and Snead that they are willing to lie about
>  such a documented fact, hoping mere assertion will be accepted. I
>  wonder what else they are willing to lie about?
>
> You cannot deny the truth and you know it...You fear for your removal
from
> every country in the world...
>

Hehehe. Why bother to repeat yourself? You can't even respond to the
evidence when it is given to you. My people have never been removed
from any country, Jew hater. And you lies will be exposed every time
you utter them.

>
>
>   Only a fool would believe that with a war
>  > effort taking place, the Nazi's were moving Jews from here to there
>  and back
>  > and forth and around and through and on and on and on.
>
>  Only a fool would deny what there is extensive records for, such as
>  transport documents, corroborated by the testimony of Nazis such as
>  Eichmann who was in charge of that very function. But don't let me
>  interrupt your fantasy!
>
>  Only a fool would believe the latter...Your fantasy is the
HOLOCau$T.

More irrelevant nonsense from a poor wretch who has given up trying to
defend his Holocaust lies, and for good reason.

>  >
>  >  Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>  >  On July 13, 1994, a documentary on the life of Charles A.Lindbergh
>  >  broadcast on the Public Broadcast System (PBS - KENW-TV) said that
>  > when Lindbergh visited one of these few camps in Germany following
>  WWII,
>  > he was told that 25,000 died in 1-1/2 years. Again, simple
arithmetic
>  tells
>  > us that  25,000 times a half dozen camps does not equal 6,000,000.
In
>  fact,
>  > it
>  > doesn't even equal 600,000.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  > Ms Zimmerman, Jewish Math is amazing isn't it?
>
>  You mean irrelevant don't you. She picks a small camp that wasn't a
>  death camp, assumes the total who died at a non-death camp is a
>  suitable average, and then goes her merry way! The 5 major death
camps
>  of Poland, as well as others where gassing took place are outlined in
>  the post "German Institute of Contemporary History".
>
>
> Yeah Yeah Yeah...Isn't it something how there were ten supposed death
camps
> and they were all in Soviet(Jewish Controlled) Russia?

False on both counts. No one said 10 death camps, and they were in
German controlled Poland. Can't get anything correct, can you!

Amazing Grace how
> Sweet the Sound....I LOVE IT!!!!! Are you trying to get a wheel chair
too?

Pathetic, and you're not even intelligenct enough to know shame.

>  >
>  >
>  > Ms Zimmerman wrote:
>  >  Obviously, nobody will ever know for sure what the absolute truth
is
>  >  regarding the number of people killed in any war but the idea that
>  six
>  >  million Jews were systematically exterminated by Hitler does not
>  > stand the test of the available data, nor of common sense.
>  >
>  >
>  > Michael Snead wrote:
>  > It doesn't stand the test very well at all. What does stand the
test
>  is Ms.
>  > Zimmerman's ability to tick off a chameleon. She clearly enhances
her
>  > audiences
>  > intelligence in posting great information and evidently will post
any
>  truth,
>  > no matter
>  > what!!!
>
>  SHe posted one figure form a diary, distorting what it meant, and
from
>  that point on made up everything else. I suppose that's fine with you
>  as long as the result is to smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis.
> Pity, Pity,  the Jews have smeared the Nazi's long enough. Now that
the
> tables are being turned you want to act like a victim.
>
>   To smear Jews and rehabilitate Nazis is the right thing to do after
>  > what the Jewish lies have done to such a great country such as
>  Germany.
>
>  Jews helped make Germany a great country. The German people paid a
>  great price for following Hitler and the Nazis. That you and
Zimmerman
>  would like to see Nazism rehabilitated tells us all we need to know
>  about your "Christian" ideals.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
> NOW PHILIP YOU ARE NOT A JUDGE, JUST A FUTURE HANDICAP PARKING
PARTICIPANT.

Oh, I most certainly am a judge and you are a hateful antisemite who's
hate will probably have a profound impact on his life here and in the
hereafter.

 I
> love all of God's children even the Nazi's. Do you not love the
Nazi's too?
> Now don't lie to us.

No you don't. You're a obvious hater, following a decadent pseudo form
of Christianity and condemned to the fringes of a society which abhors
you.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Es
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:26:38 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=840
> My answers again are in the size 12 lettering and bold.
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
> Your repetitive nature really bores me but I will entertain you with
my
> truthful inserts again.

Sorry if pointing out your lies is repetitive, but if you would stop
lying that wouldn't be necessary. Your inserts are lies, either
purposeful of from ignorance, but lies nonetheless.

>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/6/99 11:09:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
> << Snead wrote:
>
>
>  philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=827
>  > In a message dated 9/5/99 10:49:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>  > philnancy@aol.com writes:
>  >
>  > << 5.29 million >>
>  >
>  >     Now your moving in the right direction.
>
>  How typical of you to lie and distort in the very first sentence!
The
>  section said:
>
> No distorting just fact

No, a partial fact, which has the effect of a distortion. My inclusion
of the full quote demonstrates that.

>
>
> The number of the Jews killed in Europe due to the effects of the Nazi
>  tyranny amounts, according to the newest research to at least 5.29
>  million. Possibly, however, also more than six million.
>
> Possibly?  Meaning there is a chance that it MIGHT BE...The merest
chance,
> perhaps

Pretty desperate, huh.

>
>
>  >...considering that the allied
>  > forces were continually bombing refineries and that gasoline and
>  diesel were
>  > being rationed
>
>  Allied bombing had no affect on the camps until the very end of the
war.
>
>  They bombed all supply routes, refineries, factories, ....

No they didn't. Bombing of the Polish camp areas didn't occur until the
middle of 1944. Wrong again!

>
>  > and also the fact that the manpower to remove these bodies,
>
>
>  You really know nothing of this, do you? They had massive manpower.
>  They were called Jews. In the camps Jews did all the work, emptying
the
>  gas chambers and manning the crematoria, and disposing of bodies and
>  ash. Your desperate attempt to find an argument would meet with more
>  success if you were to familiarize yourself with a basic
understanding
>  of the history.
>
> Massive Manpower, I thought that the mean Nazis were killing the
Jews, You
> make no sense at all. Use logic Philip, don't let other people feed
you their
> lies.

They were killing Jews, and using them to help. Nothing illogical about
that. Which is why you have only this lame response.

>
>
> and the purpose
>  > of building the consentration camps was for housing them not to
kill
>  the
>  > Nazis surely would have had lesser facilities to kill the Jews and
>  not wasted
>  > their time building a place for them.
>
>  You might try this again in English once you figure out what point
you
>  had.
>
>  You might try the fact that the Jews had a place built for them to
stay in.

They were built to kill them, and in a few instances to house them
while they labored a while before being killed. Makes perfect sense.


> If the Nazis were to kill them they would have let the winter weather
kill
> them and claimed that they froze to death because of allied bombing.
so don't
> be so obstinent.

My you are a moron! Let millions of people freeze all over Europe? What
do you do with the bodies in the warm weather when they begin to rot
and disease starts?  How do you disguise a genocide with millions of
bodies all over Europe? It is clear you know nothing of this issue, but
like a child are desperately throwing up any defence, however
illogical, just to avoid admitting defeat.

>
>   Do you realize how ridiculous the Jews
>  > reasoning for the death camps are?
>
>  It's not the Jews reasoning, it's everyone's reasoning, including
>  historians. Only a few fringe kooks like yourself believe otherwise.
>
> Kooks , now ,Philip,  are we getting testy?

You deny being a kook?

>
> No Zyklon B was ever detected in the
>  > chambers anyway.
>
>  False. Residues of HCN were detected on the walls of every gas
chamber
>  at Auscwitz, including those which had been exposed to the elements
for
>  decades. Another lie shot down.
>
>  No detection's of the sort were found, maybe delicing
agents...another truth
> uplifted!

But you said none was found, now you claim it was for de-lousing.
CHanging our tune I see. The HCN compounds and the other evidence point
to homicidal gas chambers. Your statements are nonsense.

>
>   Talk about posting Lies. Good God almighty will deal with
>  > you in the hereafter...no I take that back...You will be seeing
your
>  Holy
>  > Father... Satan.
>
>  It is you, draping yourself in the garments of the Lord and lying and
>  hating who will have much to answer for. He sees through you easily!
>
>  The Lord God Almighty sees through us all, and as I have said
before, you
> are not the Judge nor my Savior of my soul. You have never heard me
say I
> hated anyone so what is your point?

I am judging you, just as you presume to judge all Jews. One doesn't
have to say "I hate" for that to be true. Every post you make reveals
your hate.

>
>   May the Lord Jesus Christ, who your people crucified on the
>  > cross
>
>  Another lie. The Romans crucified Jesus.
>
>  Read Mark 15:1-14 The Chief priest carried Jesus to Pontius Pilate.
Pilate
> ask Jesus if he was the King of the Jews and Jesus replied,"Thou
sayest it."
> and the chief priests accused him of many things.. Pilate was going
to
> release someone and I feel that he wanted to release Jesus but he
asked the
> multitude  and they said Crucify Him. The Jews were the false
accusers, they
> were the false witnesses, and they were the prosecution.

Pilate had the authority and made the decision. This was all the plan
of the Lord, part of the salvation of us all. Accusing Jews of carrying
out the Lords plan is disgusting.

>
>   >and died for your sins, too, have mercy on your morbid soul.

And mercy on your hateful soul, as black as it is.

>
>  The last thing I need is for a liar and hater saying a pray for me.
>  You'd best pray for forgiveness and turn to the true word of God.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.

When will you at last follow this advice, sinner?

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] A Jewish view of the Talmud
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:32:53 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Words from a Holocaust survivor about the Talmud

    There are a number of Jews who will dare speak out about the truth of
Zionism and Jewish Supremacism. A much persecuted and slandered group, they
were just as appalled as others about the hateful and intolerant strains of
Judaism that had arisen in the Jewish community and the Zionist state. They
included American Jews such as Alfred Lilienthal, Noam Chomsky, and a
courageous Jew in Israel, Dr. Israel Shahak. These scholars had dared to
stand up against Jewish intolerance.
    Dr. Israel Shahak risks all to bring what he calls decent humanity to
Judaism and the Zionist State. Professor Shahak  was born in 1933 in Warsaw
and was liberated from the Nazi concentration camp at Bergen-Belsen;
therefore, by the Jew standards, was a Holocaust survivor. After immigrating
to Israel and serving in the Israli military, he became a chemistry
professor.
    He has written many books and one being, Jewish History, Jewish Religion.
Here are some of the excerpts from that book exposing the attitude of the
Jewish religion toward Christianity:
    Judaism is imbued with a very deep hatred toward Christianity, combined
with ignorance about it.  This attitude was clearly aggravated by the
Christian persecutions by the Jews but is largely independent of them.  In
fact, it dates from the time when Christianity was still weak and persecuted
(not least by Jews), and it was shared by Jews who had never been persecuted
by Christians who even helped by them...
    According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court
for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt his execution are
quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the [talmudic account the
Romans are not even mentioned.
    The very name Jesus was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable, and
this popular tradition still persists.  The Gospels are equally detested, and
they are not allowed to be quoted (let alone taught) even in modern Israeli
schools.
    Professor Shahak reports that the Zionists publicly and ceremonially
burned hundred of copies of the New Testament in Jerusalem on March 23, 1980.
 They were destroyed under the auspices of Yad Le'akhim, a Jewish religious
organization subsidized by the Israeli Ministry of Religions.  To think that
this is the same government that some Christian ministers say we should
support with American tax dollars!  Among other startling charges, Dr. Shahak
says:
    Jewish children are actually taught --- passages such as that which
commands every Jew, whenever passing near a cemetery, to utter a blessing if
it is Jewish, but to curse the mothers of the dead if it is non-Jewish . . .
it became customary to spit (usually three times) upon seeing a church or a
crucifix . . . .
    Dr. Shahak quotes the very popular, Israeli-published Talmudic
Encyclopedia, which discusses the relationship between Jew and Goy) "Goy"
meaning any non-Jew).
    If a Jew has coitus [sexual intercourse] with a Gentile woman, whether
she be a child of three or an adult, whether married or unmarried, and even
if she is a minor aged only nine years and one day --- because he had willful
coitus with her, she must be killed, and as is the case with a beast, because
through her a Jew got into trouble.  (The Talmudic Encyclopedia).
    Now these are actual words from a Jew, is he a hater? Is he a Liar? Is he
anti-Semitic? I think not.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:44:26 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=842
> First, I appreciate Michael Snead's post after mine, but the
information I
> provided was not written by me.

Which is irrelevant, since you presented it. In any event I
demonstrated it to be without merit, in fact lies.

Here's part II, and to little Philip, "Heil
> Hitler," and "Go, Eric, go." JM 14/88

Ms. Zimmerman demonstrates her Nazi views, repugnant to humanity and
responsible for a great carnage all over Europe.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>       It is an interesting fact that the number of so-called
> "persecuted Jews" KEEPS INCREASING.  Hal Greenwald, program
> director for the Hillel Foundation at Duke University, a Jewish
student
> group, has been promoting the idea that NINE MILLION JEWS WERE
> EXTERMINATED IN HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS (New York Times, Nov. 9, 1991,
AP).
> NOW IT'S 9 MILLION AND GROWING...JUST LIKE OUR DEBT/TAX MONEY
SUPPLY...THE
> NUMBERS JUST KEEP COMING OUT OF THIN AIR.

History is not written by student groups at student newspapers. It is
another sign of your desperation to point to a false newspaper account
as if it were the same as accepted historical fact. If every event
about which newspapers made an error was disbelieve on that basis,
there would be know established history at all.

  Even The Diary of Anne Frank
> gives data which indicates that a much smaller number of Jews were
put into
> the German work camps.

It gives no such figures

 The idea that six million Jews were slaughtered by
> Hitler is about as believable as it is to believe that your friendly
local
> banker doesn't print the money he loans to you.

It's a proven fact, hardly rebutted by such silly utterances.

>       After presenting well documented and authoritative data from
> many sources, including many Jewish sources, under the heading
> entitled "Six Million Lost and Found" in his book Behind the Scene,
> Douglas Reed simply says, "The estimate (that the number is six
million) is
> historically valueless".

In other words Ms. Zimmerman wishes us to believe her when she claims
Reed had valid sources, which she omits, instead offering an
unsupported opinion of this Reed fellow.

 Yet, the Jews continue to keep the truth well
> hidden, even about their debt/tax slavery money system and Jewish
Slave Law.

Ranting.


>   Is it anymore plausible that six million Jews were slaughtered by
the
> Germans than it is to believe that General
> Eisenhower slaughtered a million German POWS?

Much more since one is supported by fact and the other is just the lies
of neo-Nazis.

The controversy
> continues to rage over the publication of Other Losses by Canadian
> author James Bacque, who documented  that while a million German
> prisoners were on a near-starvation diet, a Red cross train from
Geneva
> loaded with food parcels enroute to feed those German prisoners was
forced
> to turn back so the food could be used to feed "displaced persons"
(meaning
> Jews) in Germany.

And why shouldn't the food have gone to victims of the Nazis?

 >And while we are looking at "atrocities", who can forget
> Agent Orange in Viet Nam, or the treatment of Japanese Americans here
at
> home during WWII, or the Aleutian I sland scenario.

None of which compare to the genocide of 6 million Jews. Anyone who
would attempt to equate our treatment of Japanese with the Nazi
treatment of Jews is a fool, either with no brain, or no intellectual
honesty.

>       Atrocities are atrocities, whether committed against Jews, or
> against the Vietnamese by American fire bombing, or against Japanese
> Americans (as in the infamous WWII American concentration camps),

Not true. Acts of war are not atrocities, and the camps for Japanese,
while wrong, were hardly infamous. They didn't have gas chambers or
crematoria after all.

> or whether against the Arabs (as in the massive bombing of Iraq during
> the Gulf War), or against the German people (as in the slaughter of
the
> German people by the massive American and allied bombing of city
> after city in Germany during WWII,

Acts of war, not at all similar to the attempted annihilation of a
people who were not a party to the war.

 and the Jewish holocaust against the
> Germans following WWII),

Utter fabrication. More neo-Nazi apologia.

 or, whether it is the atrocity committed
> against Jesus by the Jews, or whether it is an atrocity againstany
other
> person or groups of persons by anybody else... atrocities are
atrocities,
> and the Jews are not entitled to any special sympathy over another
people.

Ms. Zimmerman apparently thinks throwing around the word atrocity
constitutes evidence! SHe afraid people will feel sorry for Jews, whom
she hates. What a Christian.

> Two wrongs have never made a right.
>       Perverting and twisting the truth about the number of Jews
> who suffered during WWII continues to be very effective propaganda in
> helping to deceive the American people into believing that Jewish
Slave Law
> is ordained by God so the "chosen people" can enslave the world.

One lie, which has nothing to do with the other lie.

>       In May of 1994, I received a letter from Captain Jacques H.
> Dore D.S.C. (ret.), Conseil Régional de Bretagne, Conseiller Municipal
> de Boulogne, France, which said, in part, the following: "Whenin the
> Free French Naval Mission in Hamburg (Germany) in 1946, the U.S.
> estimate of the holocaust showed some 600,000 victims including
> gypsies, members of the resistances in Europe, etc. (emphas is mine).
> Now, this very day the estimate published by the (Jewish)lobbies
> amounts to more than 6 million. No doubt in the year 2050 we will hear
> of 10 million victims".

More lies. The number, as can be shown by consulting dozens of history
books, has been 6 million since just after the war, and has remained
unchanged since that time. Attempting to disprove historical fact with
unsupported assertion and lies will never work. You'll only convince
hater who want to believe you, or fools unable to read a book and think
for themselves.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:47:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
> Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
mirror?
> Michael Snead
> 14/88

Poor Mr. Snead, unable to deal with reality, and ill equipped to
discuss it, hopes a silly charge will be a ready substitute for
evidence.

The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by people
of ignorance or blind hate. In Mr. Snead's case, it appears to be both.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:54:44 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 01:47 PM 9/6/99 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 9/6/99 11:24:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>philnancy@aol.com writes:
>
><< Snead wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=829
> > David,
> >     I have visited your website and  and will read all that you will
> provide.
> > To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make
> one a
> > hater.
>
> It does when you consistently choose to believe lies and smears of Jews
> over the obvious facts. Such a consistent choice cannot be due to
> chance, but reveals a deep seated animus which itself dictates what you
> will accept as truth rather than assessing issues to determine truth
> from lies first.
>
> I believe the truth, you are the blinded soul.....oops you are a Jew though.
>
>  I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
> > however that does not make me a hatemonger.
>
> It is a manifestation of your hate, not a cause of it. You might as
> well deny the First World War. Such denial in the face of proven
> history is revealing, especially since the event happens to involve
> Jews. Do you also deny the Armenian genocide?
>
>What I haven't denied is the fact that Jewish controlled Soviet Russia
>blatantly killed any where from 66-112 million people. Some of your so
called
>mass graves that you say have been found are probably some of the people.
>Armenian Genocide? That didn't happen because my neighbor is Armenian. Ha HA
>HA What a bonafide liar. Genocide...an obvious Jewish word since it first
>appeared in Europe in 1944 and meaning the deliberate and systematic
>destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.

Only in a sinagogue is religion, politics, and philosophy equated with race.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Douglas Reed
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:57:53 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Ms. Zimmerman wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=844
> One on Willie's list asked me this question:
> Hi,
>
> I am not familiar with Douglas Reed's book BEHIND THE SCENE, but
would like
> to get hold of it. Could you give me the publisher's name and ISBN
number?
> Is it still in print?
>
> Thanks!
> ~~~~~~~
> Me: I'm answering this to this person as well as to the list to
provide
> information to all on the IHR:
>
> I don't know if this book is still in print. The article sent by me
to
> Willie's list was not written by me. I'm sending the article in 3-4
> installments, though. You might be able to find something on Douglas
Reed
> on-line. Otherwise, call the Institute for Historical Review at:
(949)
> 631-1490. They're in California. This # will give you their Noontide
Press.
> Ask them about Mr. Reed's books. There is one called, "Controversy of
Zion"
> which I believe they still have. Ask for their catalogue.
> Best Regards,
> JM

The IHR is an organization devoted to denying the Holocaust and
attempts to give the impression of being a real institute of
intellectual endeavor. It was originally formed by the infamous Willis
Carto of the Libery Lobby, one of the most notorious antisemitic
organizations in America, disparaged by ever Conservative americans
such as William F. Buckley Jr. The Noontide Press is Carto's publishing
house and turns out many antisemitic publications of dubious scholarly
value. It is not surprising that Ms. Zimmerman gets her history from
such sources.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:01:21 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=850
> At 01:47 PM 9/6/99 EDT, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 9/6/99 11:24:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> >philnancy@aol.com writes:
> >
> ><< Snead wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=829
> > > David,
> > >     I have visited your website and  and will read all that you
will
> > provide.
> > > To disagree with any thought, theory, or revaluation does not make
> > one a
> > > hater.
> >
> > It does when you consistently choose to believe lies and smears of
Jews
> > over the obvious facts. Such a consistent choice cannot be due to
> > chance, but reveals a deep seated animus which itself dictates what
you
> > will accept as truth rather than assessing issues to determine truth
> > from lies first.
> >
> > I believe the truth, you are the blinded soul.....oops you are a
Jew though.
> >
> >  I do not agree with those who think that the holocaust happened,
> > > however that does not make me a hatemonger.
> >
> > It is a manifestation of your hate, not a cause of it. You might as
> > well deny the First World War. Such denial in the face of proven
> > history is revealing, especially since the event happens to involve
> > Jews. Do you also deny the Armenian genocide?
> >
> >What I haven't denied is the fact that Jewish controlled Soviet
Russia
> >blatantly killed any where from 66-112 million people. Some of your
so
> called
> >mass graves that you say have been found are probably some of the
people.
> >Armenian Genocide? That didn't happen because my neighbor is
Armenian. Ha HA
> >HA What a bonafide liar. Genocide...an obvious Jewish word since it
first
> >appeared in Europe in 1944 and meaning the deliberate and systematic
> >destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group.
>
>
> Only in a sinagogue is religion, politics, and philosophy equated
with race.
>
Only in the vacuous confines of Eddie's brain does this constitute a
response to the discussion, but then Eddie doesn't know enough about
anything to actually have  discussion. He's just a little hit and run
artist.

Regards to a racist,

Philip Mathews

>
> Racialist regards,
>
> Ed Kadach

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A Jewish view of the Talmud
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 12:07:20 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=847

>     Dr. Shahak quotes the very popular, Israeli-published Talmudic
> Encyclopedia, which discusses the relationship between Jew and Goy)
"Goy"
> meaning any non-Jew).
>     If a Jew has coitus [sexual intercourse] with a Gentile woman,
whether
> she be a child of three or an adult, whether married or unmarried,
and even
> if she is a minor aged only nine years and one day --- because he had
willful
> coitus with her, she must be killed, and as is the case with a beast,
because
> through her a Jew got into trouble.  (The Talmudic Encyclopedia).
>     Now these are actual words from a Jew, is he a hater? Is he a
Liar? Is he
> anti-Semitic? I think not.

You think not is true, but Shahak is a hater. And the purported quote
from the Talmud is a lie, as has been shown twice without response by
you. That you would continue to post a lie, once pointed out to you,
demonstrates you desire to hate Jews and disparage them. Sinners more
often than not identify themselves for all to see.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:16:58 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

I  like that..only in a sinogogue...and they will pay for those sins the
extreme left wing liberal, racists commies
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Douglas Reed
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:07 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 2:59:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< The IHR is an organization devoted to denying the Holocaust and
 attempts to give the impression of being a real institute of
 intellectual endeavor. It was originally formed by the infamous Willis
 Carto of the Libery Lobby, one of the most notorious antisemitic
 organizations in America, disparaged by ever Conservative americans
 such as William F. Buckley Jr. The Noontide Press is Carto's publishing
 house and turns out many antisemitic publications of dubious scholarly
 value. It is not surprising that Ms. Zimmerman gets her history from
 such sources.

 Philip Mathews

  >>
And it's not surprising that you get youre from the Christian hating, Talmud
reading, Hate mongering, racist Jews.
Michael Snead

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A Jewish view of the Talmud
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:23:59 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 3:08:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< You think not is true, but Shahak is a hater. And the purported quote
 from the Talmud is a lie, as has been shown twice without response by
 you. That you would continue to post a lie, once pointed out to you,
 demonstrates you desire to hate Jews and disparage them. Sinners more
 often than not identify themselves for all to see.

 Philip Mathews



 > Michael Snead
 > 14/88
  >>
But Shahak is one of yours and you dare call him a hater? He may be a Jew but
at least he speaks the truth, which is quite unusual. You haven't even shown
anything once as far as the truth goes much less showing anything
twice....Well ...I take that back...You have shown that you are the constant
Liar and bearer of false documentation.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:48:41 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Michael Snead's post is the bold print....
14/88

In a message dated 9/6/99 2:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Ms. Zimmerman wrote:


 philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=842
 > First, I appreciate Michael Snead's post after mine, but the
 information I
 > provided was not written by me.

 Which is irrelevant, since you presented it. In any event I
 demonstrated it to be without merit, in fact lies.

 You demonstrated that you have no merit and that is it

 Here's part II, and to little Philip, "Heil
 > Hitler," and "Go, Eric, go." JM 14/88

 Ms. Zimmerman demonstrates her Nazi views, repugnant to humanity and
 responsible for a great carnage all over Europe.

 Again you display hostility not only toward a woman but the truth too...are
you Gay? Don't lie now.

 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 >       It is an interesting fact that the number of so-called
 > "persecuted Jews" KEEPS INCREASING.  Hal Greenwald, program
 > director for the Hillel Foundation at Duke University, a Jewish
 student
 > group, has been promoting the idea that NINE MILLION JEWS WERE
 > EXTERMINATED IN HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS (New York Times, Nov. 9, 1991,
 AP).
 > NOW IT'S 9 MILLION AND GROWING...JUST LIKE OUR DEBT/TAX MONEY
 SUPPLY...THE
 > NUMBERS JUST KEEP COMING OUT OF THIN AIR.

 History is not written by student groups at student newspapers. It is
 another sign of your desperation to point to a false newspaper account
 as if it were the same as accepted historical fact. If every event
 about which newspapers made an error was disbelieve on that basis,
 there would be know established history at all.

Now you are a historian....


   Even The Diary of Anne Frank
 > gives data which indicates that a much smaller number of Jews were
 put into
 > the German work camps.

 It gives no such figures

 Yes it does

  The idea that six million Jews were slaughtered by
 > Hitler is about as believable as it is to believe that your friendly
 local
 > banker doesn't print the money he loans to you.

 It's a proven fact, hardly rebutted by such silly utterances.



 >       After presenting well documented and authoritative data from
 > many sources, including many Jewish sources, under the heading
 > entitled "Six Million Lost and Found" in his book Behind the Scene,
 > Douglas Reed simply says, "The estimate (that the number is six
 million) is
 > historically valueless".

 In other words Ms. Zimmerman wishes us to believe her when she claims
 Reed had valid sources, which she omits, instead offering an
 unsupported opinion of this Reed fellow.

 You expect us t believe you? LOL


  Yet, the Jews continue to keep the truth well
 > hidden, even about their debt/tax slavery money system and Jewish
 Slave Law.

 Ranting.
 Yes you are so grow up....oh that's right Jews don't get to tall.

 >   Is it anymore plausible that six million Jews were slaughtered by
 the
 > Germans than it is to believe that General
 > Eisenhower slaughtered a million German POWS?

 Much more since one is supported by fact and the other is just the lies
 of neo-Nazis.
 The only fact you know is your lying again

 The controversy
 > continues to rage over the publication of Other Losses by Canadian
 > author James Bacque, who documented  that while a million German
 > prisoners were on a near-starvation diet, a Red cross train from
 Geneva
 > loaded with food parcels enroute to feed those German prisoners was
 forced
 > to turn back so the food could be used to feed "displaced persons"
 (meaning
 > Jews) in Germany.

 And why shouldn't the food have gone to victims of the Nazis?

 Question is Victims or prisoners of war.

  >And while we are looking at "atrocities", who can forget
 > Agent Orange in Viet Nam, or the treatment of Japanese Americans here
 at
 > home during WWII, or the Aleutian I sland scenario.

 None of which compare to the genocide of 6 million Jews. Anyone who
 would attempt to equate our treatment of Japanese with the Nazi
 treatment of Jews is a fool, either with no brain, or no intellectual
 honesty.

 Hey Liar is it 5.3 or 6 million

 >       Atrocities are atrocities, whether committed against Jews, or
 > against the Vietnamese by American fire bombing, or against Japanese
 > Americans (as in the infamous WWII American concentration camps),

 Not true. Acts of war are not atrocities, and the camps for Japanese,
 while wrong, were hardly infamous. They didn't have gas chambers or
 crematoria after all.

 Hey I have already proven that the Jews declared war on Germany...so what if
they didn't have weapons. I sure wouldn't go down to the SW side of Atlanta
and start yelling Nigger!

> or whether against the Arabs (as in the massive bombing of Iraq during
 > the Gulf War), or against the German people (as in the slaughter of
 the
 > German people by the massive American and allied bombing of city
 > after city in Germany during WWII,

 Acts of war, not at all similar to the attempted annihilation of a
 people who were not a party to the war.

 Philip the JEWS DECLARED WAR

  and the Jewish holocaust against the
 > Germans following WWII),

 Utter fabrication. More neo-Nazi apologia.

You know it is the Truth, Let it set you free and not be a slave to the
children of Satan.

 or, whether it is the atrocity committed
 > against Jesus by the Jews, or whether it is an atrocity againstany
 other
 > person or groups of persons by anybody else... atrocities are
 atrocities,
 > and the Jews are not entitled to any special sympathy over another
 people.

 Ms. Zimmerman apparently thinks throwing around the word atrocity
 constitutes evidence! SHe afraid people will feel sorry for Jews, whom
 she hates. What a Christian.

 Now you are a Judge again...what is evident is the fact that you know very
little of what you are talking about....regardless of your self glorification
that is Jew-typical.



 > Two wrongs have never made a right.
 >       Perverting and twisting the truth about the number of Jews
 > who suffered during WWII continues to be very effective propaganda in
 > helping to deceive the American people into believing that Jewish
 Slave Law
 > is ordained by God so the "chosen people" can enslave the world.

 One lie, which has nothing to do with the other lie.

You wouldn't know the difference between a lie and the truth besides your
math is pathetic.


 >       In May of 1994, I received a letter from Captain Jacques H.
 > Dore D.S.C. (ret.), Conseil Régional de Bretagne, Conseiller Municipal
 > de Boulogne, France, which said, in part, the following: "Whenin the
 > Free French Naval Mission in Hamburg (Germany) in 1946, the U.S.
 > estimate of the holocaust showed some 600,000 victims including
 > gypsies, members of the resistances in Europe, etc. (emphas is mine).
 > Now, this very day the estimate published by the (Jewish)lobbies
 > amounts to more than 6 million. No doubt in the year 2050 we will hear
 > of 10 million victims".

 More lies. The number, as can be shown by consulting dozens of history
 books, has been 6 million since just after the war, and has remained
 unchanged since that time. Attempting to disprove historical fact with
 unsupported assertion and lies will never work. You'll only convince
 hater who want to believe you, or fools unable to read a book and think
 for themselves.

That is funny, she hasn't convinced you yet.

 Philip Mathews

  >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:57:47 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 2:48:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Snead wrote:


 philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
 original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
 > Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
 mirror?
 > Michael Snead
 > 14/88

 Poor Mr. Snead, unable to deal with reality, and ill equipped to
 discuss it, hopes a silly charge will be a ready substitute for
 evidence.
 first of all I am not poor, my father owns the cattle on a thousand hills.
and secondly it appears that I have caused you to make personal attacks on
all that post on this message board.

 The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by people
 of ignorance or blind hate. In Mr. Snead's case, it appears to be both.

 Philip Mathews

 The Propagandist encourage people to be Holohoax deniers but your theory is
losing ground daily. When a person screams the banner of ignorance and hate
pointing his finger in the other direction. People begin to realize who the
ignorant hater is. Keep waving your banner.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:03:11 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=854

> I  like that..only in a sinogogue...and they will pay for those sins
the
> extreme left wing liberal, racists commies

Mr. Snead likes anything that disparages Jews and seeks to camouflage
his antisemitsm as just a political philosophy such as conservatism in
opposition to liberalism. Of course that is nonsense, as anyone reading
his posts can see.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 14:05:15 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

At 11:47 AM 9/6/99 -0700, wrote:
>Snead wrote:
>
>
>
>original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
>> Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
>mirror?
>> Michael Snead
>> 14/88

>The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by people
>of ignorance or blind hate.

You know people, I have to admit "the holocau$t" is one of the best contrived
concepts or hoaxes of our time. As one studies it, we are at first deluded
into
believing that the holocau$t encompasses so many disciplines - reason, logic,
and belief. It's actually rather brilliant.

However, one finds this to be so only when one keeps the holocau$t at a
distance,
never looking directly at details. Because once you look directly at any
single
feature of it, one finds that it just does not make any sense.

Why would a whole nation of Germans, one of the greatest cradles of European
civilization, (allegedly) all of a sudden start committing mass murder?

The jews were so much a part of German society, holding important posts in the
government, industry, commerce, and finance, one has to ask how is it that
they
were so full of innocence(?) while the majority of Germans were so evil?

How could 900,000,000 pounds of human flesh be dispersed with, totally and
completely
in just 2.5 years, leaving not a single death-by-gas chamber corpse to be
available
for autopsy or for corpus delecti appearance at trial?  How could there be
millions
of survivors from an alleged extermination program when the number of
(alleged) deaths
is greater than the number of available victims?

The holocau$t "Lie" is "great" as in "Big". It is the biggest scam in the
whole
of the western world. It is the tool used to collapse many of the gains in
liberty
so painfully won in the last 300 years. On the pretext of protecting the
world from
tyranny, the 'holocau$t industry' is mopping up the last few strongholds of
resistance
and soon we will not be dealing with "Big Lies", but will find ourselves
dealing with
the "real" face of tyranny.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Douglas Reed
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:05:44 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=855
> In a message dated 9/6/99 2:59:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << The IHR is an organization devoted to denying the Holocaust and
>  attempts to give the impression of being a real institute of
>  intellectual endeavor. It was originally formed by the infamous
Willis
>  Carto of the Libery Lobby, one of the most notorious antisemitic
>  organizations in America, disparaged by ever Conservative americans
>  such as William F. Buckley Jr. The Noontide Press is Carto's
publishing
>  house and turns out many antisemitic publications of dubious
scholarly
>  value. It is not surprising that Ms. Zimmerman gets her history from
>  such sources.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>   >>
> And it's not surprising that you get youre from the Christian hating,
Talmud
> reading, Hate mongering, racist Jews.

You are not a Christian, but a fake Christian who gets his information
from liars and antisemites. Unlike you, Jews are not haters or racists.
My sources are mainstream and truthful, the kind that ignore you and
yours as the lunatic fringe you are!

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead

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Subject: [13texan] Re: A Jewish view of the Talmud
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:10:22 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=856
> In a message dated 9/6/99 3:08:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << You think not is true, but Shahak is a hater. And the purported
quote
>  from the Talmud is a lie, as has been shown twice without response by
>  you. That you would continue to post a lie, once pointed out to you,
>  demonstrates you desire to hate Jews and disparage them. Sinners more
>  often than not identify themselves for all to see.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>
>
>  > Michael Snead
>  > 14/88
>   >>
> But Shahak is one of yours and you dare call him a hater?

He has nothing to do with me and he is a hater, like you.

He may be a Jew but
> at least he speaks the truth, which is quite unusual.

No it isn't. What's unusual is his self loathing, which you rejoice in
because it provides you cover for your racist, antisemitic nonsense.

 You haven't even shown
> anything once as far as the truth goes much less showing anything
> twice...

False. Merely another mindless denial. The Talmud lie was exposed, you
ran from it.

.Well ...I take that back...You have shown that you are the constant
> Liar and bearer of false documentation.

No such thing has been shown. You've been revealed as an ignorant dupe
of vile antisemites, who neither knows nor cares to know the facts of
the Holocaust because he's consumed with hatred and a warped sense of
Christian faith which makes him an outcast in his own country.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:26:31 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=857

> Michael Snead's post is the bold print....
> 14/88

If you would make a little effort to learn the proper technique of
posting you wouldn't have to worry about all these efforts to keep the
identity of the writer clear.

>
> In a message dated 9/6/99 2:45:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Ms. Zimmerman wrote:
>
>
>  philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=842
>  > First, I appreciate Michael Snead's post after mine, but the
>  information I
>  > provided was not written by me.
>
>  Which is irrelevant, since you presented it. In any event I
>  demonstrated it to be without merit, in fact lies.
>
>  You demonstrated that you have no merit and that is it

Nope, showed it to be untrue, and the frustrating part for you is you
can make no counter argument, so in your powerlessness, you merely deny.

>
>  Here's part II, and to little Philip, "Heil
>  > Hitler," and "Go, Eric, go." JM 14/88
>
>  Ms. Zimmerman demonstrates her Nazi views, repugnant to humanity and
>  responsible for a great carnage all over Europe.
>
>  Again you display hostility not only toward a woman but the truth
too...are
> you Gay? Don't lie now.

Her sex has nothing to do with it. She, like you, are liars as
demonstrated. Look to thy wife Snead!

>
>  > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  >       It is an interesting fact that the number of so-called
>  > "persecuted Jews" KEEPS INCREASING.  Hal Greenwald, program
>  > director for the Hillel Foundation at Duke University, a Jewish
>  student
>  > group, has been promoting the idea that NINE MILLION JEWS WERE
>  > EXTERMINATED IN HITLER'S GAS CHAMBERS (New York Times, Nov. 9,
1991,
>  AP).
>  > NOW IT'S 9 MILLION AND GROWING...JUST LIKE OUR DEBT/TAX MONEY
>  SUPPLY...THE
>  > NUMBERS JUST KEEP COMING OUT OF THIN AIR.
>
>  History is not written by student groups at student newspapers. It is
>  another sign of your desperation to point to a false newspaper
account
>  as if it were the same as accepted historical fact. If every event
>  about which newspapers made an error was disbelieve on that basis,
>  there would be know established history at all.
>
> Now you are a historian....

One doesn't have to be a historian to know that newspapers don't write
history.
>
>
>    Even The Diary of Anne Frank
>  > gives data which indicates that a much smaller number of Jews were
>  put into
>  > the German work camps.
>
>  It gives no such figures
>
>  Yes it does

Cite the passage. Can't eh.

>
>   The idea that six million Jews were slaughtered by
>  > Hitler is about as believable as it is to believe that your
friendly
>  local
>  > banker doesn't print the money he loans to you.
>
>  It's a proven fact, hardly rebutted by such silly utterances.
>
>
>
>  >       After presenting well documented and authoritative data from
>  > many sources, including many Jewish sources, under the heading
>  > entitled "Six Million Lost and Found" in his book Behind the Scene,
>  > Douglas Reed simply says, "The estimate (that the number is six
>  million) is
>  > historically valueless".
>
>  In other words Ms. Zimmerman wishes us to believe her when she claims
>  Reed had valid sources, which she omits, instead offering an
>  unsupported opinion of this Reed fellow.
>
>  You expect us t believe you? LOL

Were there sources or not? What I've been trying to teach you is, don't
believe, verify.

>
>
>   Yet, the Jews continue to keep the truth well
>  > hidden, even about their debt/tax slavery money system and Jewish
>  Slave Law.
>
>  Ranting.

>  Yes you are so grow up....oh that's right Jews don't get to tall.

That's too tall, and thank you for revealing more of your antisemitism.

>
>  >   Is it anymore plausible that six million Jews were slaughtered by
>  the
>  > Germans than it is to believe that General
>  > Eisenhower slaughtered a million German POWS?
>
>  Much more since one is supported by fact and the other is just the
lies
>  of neo-Nazis.

>  The only fact you know is your lying again

Prove it. Provide sources for the contention that Eisenhower killed
millions of German POWS. We'll wait.

>
>  The controversy
>  > continues to rage over the publication of Other Losses by Canadian
>  > author James Bacque, who documented  that while a million German
>  > prisoners were on a near-starvation diet, a Red cross train from
>  Geneva
>  > loaded with food parcels enroute to feed those German prisoners was
>  forced
>  > to turn back so the food could be used to feed "displaced persons"
>  (meaning
>  > Jews) in Germany.
>
>  And why shouldn't the food have gone to victims of the Nazis?
>
>  Question is Victims or prisoners of war.

6 million Jews were prisoners of war? On what basis? And where did they
go?

>
>   >And while we are looking at "atrocities", who can forget
>  > Agent Orange in Viet Nam, or the treatment of Japanese Americans
here
>  at
>  > home during WWII, or the Aleutian I sland scenario.
>
>  None of which compare to the genocide of 6 million Jews. Anyone who
>  would attempt to equate our treatment of Japanese with the Nazi
>  treatment of Jews is a fool, either with no brain, or no intellectual
>  honesty.
>
>  Hey Liar is it 5.3 or 6 million

It's called a range fool. We don't know exactly how many people were
killed in the Gulag, or the bombing of Dresden, so ranges are provided.
Does that mean those events didn't occur? Hardly. Your attempts are
laughable!
>
>  >       Atrocities are atrocities, whether committed against Jews, or
>  > against the Vietnamese by American fire bombing, or against
Japanese
>  > Americans (as in the infamous WWII American concentration camps),
>
>  Not true. Acts of war are not atrocities, and the camps for Japanese,
>  while wrong, were hardly infamous. They didn't have gas chambers or
>  crematoria after all.
>
>  Hey I have already proven that the Jews declared war on Germany...so
what if
> they didn't have weapons.

A people with no nation, money, or armies can hardly declare war.
Another moronic attempt.

> I sure wouldn't go down to the SW side of Atlanta
> and start yelling Nigger!

But you'd like to .

>
> > or whether against the Arabs (as in the massive bombing of Iraq
during
>  > the Gulf War), or against the German people (as in the slaughter of
>  the
>  > German people by the massive American and allied bombing of city
>  > after city in Germany during WWII,
>
>  Acts of war, not at all similar to the attempted annihilation of a
>  people who were not a party to the war.
>
>  Philip the JEWS DECLARED WAR

No they didn't, and ethnic groups can't declare war. More silly
desperation from an antisemite trying to justify the murder of 6
million Jews.

>
>   and the Jewish holocaust against the
>  > Germans following WWII),
>
>  Utter fabrication. More neo-Nazi apologia.
>
> You know it is the Truth, Let it set you free and not be a slave to
the
> children of Satan.

It's a lie, which is why you can provide no evidence for it. Correct?

>
>  or, whether it is the atrocity committed
>  > against Jesus by the Jews, or whether it is an atrocity againstany
>  other
>  > person or groups of persons by anybody else... atrocities are
>  atrocities,
>  > and the Jews are not entitled to any special sympathy over another
>  people.
>
>  Ms. Zimmerman apparently thinks throwing around the word atrocity
>  constitutes evidence! SHe afraid people will feel sorry for Jews,
whom
>  she hates. What a Christian.
>
>  Now you are a Judge again...what is evident is the fact that you
know very
> little of what you are talking about.

Not based on anything you've been able to say! Yes I am judging you and
Ms. Zimmerman for demonstrably antisemitic beliefs. That hardly
compares to you judging an entire people based on nothing but lies.

...regardless of your self glorification
> that is Jew-typical.

More antisemitic nonsense exhibiting the impotence of your arguments.
>
>
>
>  > Two wrongs have never made a right.
>  >       Perverting and twisting the truth about the number of Jews
>  > who suffered during WWII continues to be very effective propaganda
in
>  > helping to deceive the American people into believing that Jewish
>  Slave Law
>  > is ordained by God so the "chosen people" can enslave the world.
>
>  One lie, which has nothing to do with the other lie.
>
> You wouldn't know the difference between a lie and the truth besides
your
> math is pathetic.

Hee hee hee. You really have nothing to say, do you?

>
>
>  >       In May of 1994, I received a letter from Captain Jacques H.
>  > Dore D.S.C. (ret.), Conseil Régional de Bretagne, Conseiller
Municipal
>  > de Boulogne, France, which said, in part, the following: "Whenin
the
>  > Free French Naval Mission in Hamburg (Germany) in 1946, the U.S.
>  > estimate of the holocaust showed some 600,000 victims including
>  > gypsies, members of the resistances in Europe, etc. (emphas is
mine).
>  > Now, this very day the estimate published by the (Jewish)lobbies
>  > amounts to more than 6 million. No doubt in the year 2050 we will
hear
>  > of 10 million victims".
>
>  More lies. The number, as can be shown by consulting dozens of
history
>  books, has been 6 million since just after the war, and has remained
>  unchanged since that time. Attempting to disprove historical fact
with
>  unsupported assertion and lies will never work. You'll only convince
>  hater who want to believe you, or fools unable to read a book and
think
>  for themselves.
>
> That is funny, she hasn't convinced you yet.

Unlike you I'm not convinced by lies. Now get about finding the
evidence for those items in this very post you claim to be true!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:31:13 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=858
> In a message dated 9/6/99 2:48:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Snead wrote:
>
>
>  philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
>  original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
>  > Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
>  mirror?
>  > Michael Snead
>  > 14/88
>
>  Poor Mr. Snead, unable to deal with reality, and ill equipped to
>  discuss it, hopes a silly charge will be a ready substitute for
>  evidence.

>  first of all I am not poor, my father owns the cattle on a thousand
hills.

Poor as in the sense of pathetic, poor fool.

> and secondly it appears that I have caused you to make personal
attacks on
> all that post on this message board.

Calling liars, liars is not a personal attack. Attacking a whole ethnic
group based on lies and hate is a far worse offense.

>
>  The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by
people
>  of ignorance or blind hate. In Mr. Snead's case, it appears to be
both.
>
>  Philip Mathews
>
>  The Propagandist encourage people to be Holohoax deniers but your
theory is
> losing ground daily.

Deniers are ignorant fools such as yourself. The more they are exposed,
the fewer people who are taken in by them. Your assertion of gaining
ground is nonsense, your "movement" peaked 5 or more years ago.

 When a person screams the banner of ignorance and hate
> pointing his finger in the other direction.

Would you care to make this a complete sentence?

>People begin to realize who the
> ignorant hater is. Keep waving your banner.

They certainly do, which is why your ilk hide out on obscure websites
and email groups spouting views that are an embarrassment to decent
people.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead
> 14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:41:40 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=860
> At 11:47 AM 9/6/99 -0700, wrote:
> >Snead wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
> >> Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
> >mirror?
> >> Michael Snead
> >> 14/88
>
> >The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by
people
> >of ignorance or blind hate.
>
>
>
> You know people, I have to admit "the holocau$t" is one of the best
contrived
> concepts or hoaxes of our time. As one studies it, we are at first
deluded
> into
> believing that the holocau$t encompasses so many disciplines -
reason, logic,
> and belief. It's actually rather brilliant.

It you've studied it, why do you never discuss it, merely post ignorant
assertions and then run away?

>
> However, one finds this to be so only when one keeps the holocau$t at
a
> distance,
> never looking directly at details. Because once you look directly at
any
> single
> feature of it, one finds that it just does not make any sense.

Why don't you offer some for discussion?


>
> Why would a whole nation of Germans, one of the greatest cradles of
European
> civilization, (allegedly) all of a sudden start committing mass
murder?

The whole nation didn't, the Nazis did. The mistake the German people
made was turning power over to these hate filled wretches, who's whole
philosophy was built on hatred of Jews and others. When you combine
this with the basic authoritarian nature of the government, you have a
prescription for disaster.

>
> The jews were so much a part of German society, holding important
posts in the
> government, industry, commerce, and finance, one has to ask how is it
that
> they
> were so full of innocence(?) while the majority of Germans were so
evil?

Another false charge made by Eddie.  One doesn't have to be innocent to
not be worthy of genocide.

>
> How could 900,000,000 pounds of human flesh be dispersed with,
totally and
> completely
> in just 2.5 years, leaving not a single death-by-gas chamber corpse
to be
> available
> for autopsy or for corpus delecti appearance at trial?

Oh, please, read the history and find out. When you have the will and
slave labor to do the dirty work, it is not that difficult to kill and
burn that many people. Merely raising a question such as this shows you
haven't read the record.

 How could there be
> millions
> of survivors from an alleged extermination program when the number of
> (alleged) deaths
> is greater than the number of available victims?

But the number of deaths is not greater than the number of available
victims. The Nazis themselves estimated the number of European Jews to
be about 11 million. 11-6 leaves millions, by the way.

>
> The holocau$t "Lie" is "great" as in "Big". It is the biggest scam in
the
> whole
> of the western world.

Evidence?

It is the tool used to collapse many of the gains in
> liberty
> so painfully won in the last 300 years.

Such as?

 On the pretext of protecting the
> world from
> tyranny, the 'holocau$t industry' is mopping up the last few
strongholds of
> resistance
> and soon we will not be dealing with "Big Lies", but will find
ourselves
> dealing with
> the "real" face of tyranny.

What are you babbling about? Typical Eddie post, long on rhetoric,
short on facts!

Philip Mathews

>
>
>
> Racialist regards,
>
> Ed Kadach
>
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:47:42 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman wrote:

> There are compelling reasons to believe that the so-called holocaust never
> existed. Page 223, in The Diary of Anne Frank, Pan Horizons edition, Pan
> Books Ltd., London, 1989, indicates that the size of AUSCHWITZ, the most
> notorious of all German work camps, WAS VERY SMALL, with only 11,000 people
> (many of whom may not even have been Jews) being evacuated by the Germans at
> the time of the Russian advance in 1945.

...all of which, sad to say, has nothing whatsoever to do with the Auschwitz
concentration camp complex. The photographs which have survived make this pretty
obvious.

For an interesting - and, unlike the above - accurate history of Auschwitz, I
recommend "Auschwitz, 1270 to the Present," by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan Van
Pelt.

> Certainly, compared to Spielberg's
> film, Schindler's List (which Emilie Schindler, Oskar's widow, said was full
> of lies), and other Jewish propaganda, that millions upon millions of Jews
> were systematically exterminated, 11,000 people is a very small number.
> Simple arithmetic tells us that the Germans would have had to have had
> hundreds of camps, or else they would have had to exterminate 137 people PER
> HOUR, in order for six million Jews to have been exterminated at such small
> camps as Auschwitz, a feat that would have been humanly impossible
> considering that, according to Douglas Reed's Behind the Scene and The
> Controversy of Zion, a mere 850,000 soldiers and others were killed by the
> entire German and Japanese war machines combined during  WWII (see p.397-400

For a well documented examination of the capacity of the Auschwitz camps for
mechanized murder, see nizkor's Auschwitz pages, at
http://www1.us.nizkor.org/hweb/camps/auschwitz.

The Germans had, by the way, thousands of camps, but few of them were as
efficient in their killing as the Aktion Reinhard camps (Sobibor, Belzec and
Treblinka) or the Birkenau complex.

Auschwitz was a huge complex.

> of Douglas Reed's book Controversy of Zion). People who would believe the
> Jewish propaganda that six million Jews were exterminated by Hitler must
> KEEP IN MIND THE SMALL SCALE CONSTRUCTION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE VERY FEW
> OTHER GERMAN WORK CAMPS THAT EXISTED DURING WWII.

The construction was hardly "small scale," m'am, as the blueprints demonstrate.
I can't imagine how anyone could be confused about this, but there's no
accounting for ignorance, I guess.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Estimate of
     Jews killed
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:49:27 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

jsavage wrote:

> A well known forgery...nothing but lies!

Have you written to the organization that sent Keren that letter? Did they
tell you it had been forged? Do you have any evidence - anything at all -
besides your unsubstantiated opinion?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: German Institute of Contemporary History's Estimate
     ofJews kil...
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 13:52:00 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SNEADSTER@aol.com wrote:

>  Do you realize how rediculous the Jews
> reasoning for the death camps are?

Actually, it isn't Jewish reasoning at all, but rather Nazi reasoning. The
blueprints, the orders from one Nazi to another, the Nazi photographs, the sworn
testimony in German courts.... we sure don't need any Jewish reasoning to learn
the truth of the Nazi extermination of the Jews.

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:47:46 CDT
From: "David Griffin" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

>From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
>Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
>To: 13texan@egroups.com
>Subject: [13texan] Re: Talmud and Holocaust
>Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:26:51 EDT
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>From 13texan-return-807-david_223 Mon Sep 06 08:26:51 1999
>Received: from [207.138.41.146] by hotmail.com (2.1) with ESMTP id
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>aTKODySkr_ (4588) for <13texan@egroups.com>; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:26:52 -0400
>(EDT)
>Message-ID: 
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>
>
>David,
>     Very well said and thank you  for giving me that perspective. There is
>so
>much to learn from everyone that is in a group that if one will dispute
>everything that is said even his process of erudition is impeded.
>Michael Snead
>14/88

So true, brother....there is so much to learn...and I feel that I am able to
learn from any Christian....I was not being critical, brother...just
something that I learned from Dr. Swift tapes...and some it from Dave Barley
of America's Promise Ministries.

In Christ,
David

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] Re: An SS Doctor lays it out
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:23:59 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

http://www3.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/muench-hans/auschwitz-declaration.html

I, Dr. Hans Munch hereby attest that, as an SS physician on duty in Auschwitz in
1944, I witnessed the selection process of those who were to live and those who
were to die.  Other SS physicians on duty in the camps made selections at the
platform where the transports arrived.  They also made selections in the
barracks.  I was exempt from performing selections because I had refused to do
so.

I further attest that I saw thousands of people gassed here at Auschwitz.
Children, old people, the sick and those unable to work were sent to the gas
chambers.  These were innocent human beings: Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals,
Hitler's political opponents - anyone who did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure
Aryan race.

I am signing this paper of my own free will to help document the cruel
intolerance of my fellow SS.

I, a former SS physician, witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated
exhaust vents from outside the gas chambers.  Zyklon B began to work as soon as
it was released from the canisters.  The effects of the gas were observed
through a peephole by an assigned doctor or the SS officer on duty.  After three
to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign
that the corpses were cleared to be burned.

This is the nightmare I continue to live with fifty years later.

I am so sorry that in some way I was part of it.  Under the prevailing
circumstances I did the best I could to save as many lives as possible.  Joining
the SS was a mistake.  I was young.  I was an opportunist.  And once I joined,
there was no way out.

(signed)
Dr. Hans Munch
January 27, 1995, Auschwitz

(6 witnesses)

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Subject: [13texan] SS Doctor gives interview
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 15:26:20 -0700
From: Herb Gorman 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

http://www3.ca.nizkor.org/hweb/people/m/muench-hans/swedish-television-interview.html

The doctor and former SS-Untersturmfuehrer Hans Muench was among the 40 members
of the Auschwitz camp personnel indicted and tried in Krakow in Poland
1946-1947. The trial led to some 20 death sentences, but Muench was acquitted.

He had taken part in gassings but had refused to assist in the so-called
selections. Some ex-prisoners also testified in his favour. After his release,
Muench returned to Germany where he continued his medical practice. In 1964 he
testified at the Auschwitz trial in Frankfurt am Main. He agreed to an interview
with Swedish television in 1981, against the wish of his family. It has been
broadcast twice on Swedish TV, in 1982 and 1992.

Excerpts from an interview with Dr. Hans Muench.

[...]

Muench: I received eight weeks of normal military training and then came to the
Waffen-SS Institute for Hygiene in Berlin. That was the highest authority for
all institutes of hygiene within the Waffen-SS. The Waffen-SS was considered to
be on an equal footing with the German army. From Berlin I was ordered to Field
Laboratory South-East, and this Field Laboratory South-East had been set up to
deal with the diseases that had appeared in Auschwitz.

Swedish Television: So you came to Auschwitz? Did you know what Auschwitz was?

M: No! It was in 1943, in the spring, early summer. There I... That field
laboratory had been established because of the diseases that were prevalent in
the camp and that leaked out through the camp fence, and threatened the men and
the civilian population. Expert bacteriological research had to be conducted and
adequate measures taken. That was our task.

ST: Not to save the prisoners?

M: By no means...There was the possibility, but the risk for a major epidemic
among those close to 100 000 people in unhygienic conditions and in a not too
hygienic environment...

ST: The purpose was to save the personnel?

M: Yes, and the surroundings. The town of Auschwitz was not far away. A major
epidemic would certainly have erupted. [...] During my time, the crematories
were used several times a week to burn the corpses that came. Soon after my
arrival, at the latest towards the end of the summer, transports came that were
exterminated and Auschwitz was then used as an extermination camp.

ST: The camp that was seven kilometers from Auschwitz was Birkenau, right?

M: Yes, five or seven kilometers. Next to the camp Birkenau was the machinery of
extermination.

ST: How do you know that the extermination there was carried out with gas?

M: When one's professional task is to inspect the hygienic conditions of the
camp and one has to pass through the camp it was impossible not to notice.

ST: Did you see the crematories yourself?

M: Yes, of course. It wasn't part of my daily routine, but it was impossible to
avoid it, even if I hadn't known what it was. Everybody active in the SS in
Auschwitz knew of course what the crematories were, and it was impossible not to
notice the smoke and the chimneys and feel the smell. In the SS the use of gas
was discussed quite openly.

ST: Were doctors present at the gassings?

M: They had to be present. According to strict regulations they had to be
present, as in civilized states at every normal individual execution for legal
reasons. In the same way there was a military order that at least one doctor had
to be present at exterminations by gas in Auschwitz, for two reasons. Firstly,
the whole thing had to be under medical supervision. And the gas wasn't thrown
in by the regular camp personnel but by the camp doctors' medical orderlies.

[...]

ST: When you were off-duty you spoke about this? About special treatment, about
the gassing?

M: It was discussed very intensely, hardly ideologically, whether it was
ideologically correct to exterminate the Jews, but rather the technical problems
that always occur at this overstraining of the camp.

ST. You refused to participate in it. Could you say so openly?

M: I had nothing to do with it in the first place. I was ordered there and
belonged to the Hygienic Institute. One has to explain those bureaucratic things
precisely...

ST: I understand that, but did you discuss it with each other?

M: Yes, very intensely, also ideologically.

ST: Did you object to it, for example because of medico-ethical reasons?

M: Yes, exactly. Among doctors we could discuss it openly, like we talk about it
today. There was no limit at all. Outwardly you were completely isolated.
Everybody knew very well that among civilians or military personnel he should
never say a word. I was for instance often in Plaszow... No, not in Plaszow. It
was a training camp for the Waffen-SS, near Krakow. It was also important, a
military camp. There I ate in the messroom, the officers' mess. There were SS
doctors and SS officers too. "Do you come from Auschwitz?" - everybody wanted
to know how it was there. "Is it really like that? One hears the most horrible
things." It was very difficult to be evasive. I would never have dared to tell
any SS officer, who still had to be considered an "insider", anything at all
about Auschwitz. In Auschwitz it was completely different.

ST: There you could dissociate yourself from it?

M: Absolutely.

ST: What objections did your colleagues have who were for it?

M: "Is it necessary to do this in the middle of the war? There will be time for
it later." "One should try to get as big a work force as possible. It would be
better if the people were fed better." That was one view. Then there was the
opposite view. "It has to be done at once. If we wait any longer there will be
objections, and there are those who are against it."

ST: From a purely technical point of view, people were against it? And
economically?

M: That was the main problem.

ST: But ideologically?

M: Ideologically...

ST: The majority was for it?

M: The majority of the doctors were against it from a purely technical point of
view, and also because of economic reasons.

ST: But ideologically in favour?

M. Ideologically nobody differed.

ST: What was the ideology?

M: Simply National Socialism, as expounded by [Alfred] Rosenberg. The Germanic
race was the future of the world and a guarantee against corruption and
mismanagement and for keeping our Europe pure. The root cause of every evil in
culture, of every degeneracy was the Jews, which is clear from the fact that the
Jews weren't tolerated already in the Middle Ages. There must have been good
reasons to put them into ghettos. There were constant pogroms, not only in
Germany, in the whole of Europe. That is because the Jewish race is a
destructive factor. There is no development, no peace, nothing worth living for
when the Jews have a finger in the pie.

ST: Therefore they must be exterminated?

M: Because it hasn't succeeded so far in spite of all the severe measures, but
they continually take hold of decisive posts in the economy, in the state, in
cultural life. It has to be stopped. That can be done only by total physical
extermination.

[...]

ST: Isn't the ideology of extermination contrary to a doctor's ethical values?

M: Yes, absolutely. There is no discussion. But I lived in that environment, and
I tried in every possible way to avoid accepting it, but I had to live with it.
What else could I have done? And I wasn't confronted with it directly until the
order came that I and my superior and another one had to take part in the
exterminations since the camp's doctors were overloaded and couldn't cope with
it.

ST: I must ask something. Doubters claim that "special treatment" could mean
anything. It didn't have to be extermination.

M: "Special treatment" in the terminology of the concentration camp means
physical extermination. If it was a question of more than a few people, where
nothing else than gassing them was worth while, they were gassed.

ST: "Special treatment" was gassing?

M: Yes, absolutely.

ST: And "selection".

M: That was the selection of those who were still fit for work and those who
were no longer economically useful.

ST: Doctors made the "selection"?

M: It was supposed to be that way, but it was impossible considering the number.

[...]

     Bruchfeld, Stephane: Foernekandet av Foerintelsen. Nynazistisk
historiefoerfalskning efter Auschwitz, Stockholm 1995, Svenska Kommitten Mot
Antisemitism.

     Swedish Committee Against Antisemitism
     stephane.bruchfeld@mailbox.swipnet.se
     Address: Box 34036, S-100 26 Stockholm, Sweden

     "Es ist nichts schrecklicher als eine taetige Unwissenheit" - Goethe

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 19:05:57 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Snead wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
> > Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
> mirror?
> > Michael Snead
> > 14/88
>
> Poor Mr. Snead, unable to deal with reality, and ill equipped to
> discuss it, hopes a silly charge will be a ready substitute for
> evidence.
>
> The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by people
> of ignorance or blind hate. In Mr. Snead's case, it appears to be both.
>

By your own words you have condemned yourself...you
continually deny the following!....and therefore are
"ignorant or blinded by hate...or both"

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? HE IS AN ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH THE FATHER
AND THE SON". (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE
FATHER: (1John 2:23a)

It seems the only time you open your mouth is to
change feet...

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 16:15:46 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=872
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Snead wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=843
> > > Come on Philip enough lying buddy. How do you look yourself in the
> > mirror?
> > > Michael Snead
> > > 14/88
> >
> > Poor Mr. Snead, unable to deal with reality, and ill equipped to
> > discuss it, hopes a silly charge will be a ready substitute for
> > evidence.
> >
> > The historical community considers denial a farce, practiced by
people
> > of ignorance or blind hate. In Mr. Snead's case, it appears to be
both.
> >
>
> By your own words you have condemned yourself...you
> continually deny the following!....and therefore are
> "ignorant or blinded by hate...or both"

Nonsense, don't quote scripture to defend the indefensible. Jews are a
tiny minority of the people throughtout the world who do not accept the
Christian God, and yet you focus on them. The reason is not religious,
or you would feel the same about other non-Christians. You just hate
Jews and you will one day answer to the Lord for that and for using his
words to justify it. The judgment is the Lord's to make, not yours.

>
> It seems the only time you open your mouth is to
> change feet...

It seems you forget to engage the brain when you open yours, Jew hater.

Philip Mathews

>
> js
> --
> Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
> a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".
>
>                                        The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Douglas Reed
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:33:17 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 4:06:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< You are not a Christian, but a fake Christian who gets his information
 from liars and antisemites. Unlike you, Jews are not haters or racists.
 My sources are mainstream and truthful, the kind that ignore you and
 yours as the lunatic fringe you are!
  >>

Michael Snead wrote:
Phil, honey ,why are you so upset? Whether you believe that I am a Christian
or not matters very little to me. But to tell me that Jews are not haters or
racists I will hand this to you...YOU ARE A LIAR. Your main stream sources
are as bigoted towards Christians as you are. If I am Lying why does it upset
you so? I will answer that.... because you know that the chains of bondage on
the knowledge of the American people are about to be loosed and Holohoax
Deniers such as your self will have to recant.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:46:44 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 4:27:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< >  Again you display hostility not only toward a woman but the truth
 too...are
 > you Gay? Don't lie now.

 Her sex has nothing to do with it. She, like you, are liars as
 demonstrated. Look to thy wife Snead!


 >  >>

Unlike you Philip, I do look to my wife. So you are Gay Huh?

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:20:53 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

In a message dated 9/6/99 7:17:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Nonsense, don't quote scripture to defend the indefensible. Jews are a
 tiny minority of the people throughtout the world who do not accept the
 Christian God, and yet you focus on them. The reason is not religious,
 or you would feel the same about other non-Christians. You just hate
 Jews and you will one day answer to the Lord for that and for using his
 words to justify it. The judgment is the Lord's to make, not yours.

  >>

And on that glorious day we that are called by his name will hear,"well done
my good and faithful servant" on the other hand you will hear"DEPART FROM ME
YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY I NEVER KNEW YOU!"
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Judaism, Communism and the Shield of the Holohoax
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 19:21:10 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

A good friend of mine and of a few others on this list wrote this article
not to long ago. He's an articulate man of great vision.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

Judaism, Communism and the Shield of the Holohoax

Dan Parker

There is a revolution coming which will cast Judaism upon the rubbish heap
where that vile doctrine belongs. This relic should never have been
preserved in the first place and has brought more death and suffering into
the world than probably any other single system of religious dogma. That
suffering has afflicted Jews as well. But if Jews cling to this tenebrous
creed, one can hardly feel sympathy for them. It has been largely, however,
the people who do not even know of the repugnant doctrine in which Jews
traffic that have suffered the most.

"Boston: A Harvard Divinity School professor, John Strugnell, was removed
this week as chief editor of the Dead Sea Scrolls not only because of his
poor health, but because of a tirade against Israel and Judaism, his
colleagues said. The remarks, in which he called Judaism ‘a horrible
religion’ that ‘should have disappeared,’ came as a surprise to some
colleagues working with him to decipher the ancient texts of the Old
Testament. Strugnell made the remarks in a recent interview published in
Haaretz, a Tel Aviv newspaper. In the Haaretz interview, Strugnell, 60, said
he was not against Jews but their religion, according to an account soon to
be published in the Biblical Archaeology Review. ‘I can’t allow the word
anti-Semitism to be used,’ he is quoted as saying, ‘Anti-Judaist, that’s
what I am.’ "

If anyone really wants to find the true font of hate, he need seek nowhere
else than the Jewish legal code found in the Babylonian Talmud, and in the
culture which it spawned. One can hardly blame the non-Jews of the world for
rebelling against this vulgar creed.

It behooves you to seriously investigate Judaism. You will have to do this
largely independently as Jews will mount carefully designed subterfuges to
obfuscate and keep you from finding out the full truth of their religion.
You cannot seek to learn the truth from Jews.

Surely, you must be at least a little curious. The non-Jewish world has
historically reacted violently when Jews have surreptitiously imposed parts
of their religion and system of belief upon the non-Jews, be they Christian,
Moslem or atheist. This cannot be explained by any of the lame offerings
Jews have used to placate the mass of non-Jews—anti-Semitism, religious
bigotry, hate, intolerance.

While there have been periods of religious bigotry, particularly during the
medieval period, four millenia of extremely violent reaction to Judaism
cannot be explained so simply.

"Once we perceive that it is Judaism which is the root cause of
antisemitism, otherwise irrational or inexplicable aspects of antisemitism
become rationally explicable…Only something representing a threat to the
core values, allegiances and beliefs of others could cause such universal,
deep and lasting hatred. This Judaism has done…" (Why the Jews: by Denis
Prager and Joseph Telushkin, 1985)

No rational person can deny the unique evil of Communism. While theories on
communism existed prior to the 20th century, it was the Jewish Bolshevik
Revolution in Russia in 1917 which introduced this consummately evil system
of government to the world. Communism, according to Professor R. J. Rummel
of the University of Hawaii has devoured in excess of 200 million human
lives—not in wars, but in what Prof. Rummel calls democide, death by the
state. Jews gave the world this evil system of government.

"Some call it Marxism—I call it Judaism." (The American Bulletin, Rabbi S.
Wise, May 5, 1935).

"Marxism is the modern form of Jewish prophecy." (Reinhold Niebur, Speech
before the Jewish Institute of Religion, New York October 3, 1934)

Judaism and Communism are in perfect accord. This should tell one all he
needs to know of Judaism. Jews now try to distance themselves from the
murderous regime they instituted in the former Soviet Union. They will claim
that those Jews were atheists and therefore, not real Jews.

"The Communists are against religion, and they seek to destroy religion;
yet, when we look deeper into the nature of Communism, we see that it is
essential nothing else than a religion." (A Program for the Jews and
Humanity, Harry Waton, p. 138).

It can easily be shown that Judaism and Communism are intimately in accord
with each other. Judaism, however, was not banned in the former Soviet
Union. There were some synogogues destroyed, and Jewish Communist Commisars
even killed their fellow Jews, but they were not attacked remotely on the
scale of the Christians and especially the sadistic slaughter of hundreds of
thousands of Russian Christian clergy. Moreover, as Harry Waton pointed out
in his book, "A Program for the Jews and Humanity," Communism was itself a
religion. Waton was not the only Jewish writer to make this observation.

In the 1989 book, "Destructive Generation: Second Thoughts About the
Sixties," by Peter Collins and David Horowitz, Horowitz makes clear, the
Marxist belief system–despite its protestations of atheism and "scientific
socialism"–is essentially an ersatz religion:

"Our parents were idolaters in the church of a mass murderer named Joseph
Stalin. ... Totalitarianism is the possession of reality by a political
Idea–the Idea of the socialist kingdom of heaven on earth, the redemption of
humanity by political force. … Belief in the kingdom of socialist heaven is
the faith that transforms vice into virtue, lies into truth, evil into good.
For in the revolutionary regions, the Way, the Truth, and the Life of
salvation lie not with God above but with men below–ruthless, brutal, venal
men– on whom the faith confers the power of gods. There is no mystery in the
transformation of the socialist paradise into Communist hell: Liberation
theology is a Satanic creed."

Whatever the personal price we pay for our rebelling against this evil
"religion," Judaism, we must be willing to pay that price. Or we are not
worthy to call ourselves the descendents of the great men and women who
built this nation, America; we are not deserving of the liberty for which
they sacrificed their blood and honor—their very lives.

The Holocaust Story® is a fraud, a hoax. It is designed to shield Jews from
suspicion of the dirty work in which they are engaged. It enriches them
monetarily that they can carry on this evil labor of destroying our freedom,
our sanity, our culture, our religion, even our lives.

Revisionists have called their endeavor the intellectual adventure of the
20th century. It might be called the spiritual endeavor of the 20th century
as well. If we do not cast off this false religion, we will gradually
succumb to even greater evils that grin devilishly at us from within the
dank and dark inner sanctum of Judaism—the most vile and repugnant creed
that was ever introduced into the world.

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Talmudist control the media
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:41:22 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Talmudists
Controller of the Media

    The plan of the Talmudists to control the world press, and with it the
thinking (and I use the term loosely) of Christians everywhere was broken
down into three phases:

    1. Journals which are under Jewish control, either by outright ownership
or through their control;

    2. Journals bearing the banner of a specific nationality, such as German,
Irish, Spanish, Greek, Italian, etc.;

    3. Journals printed specifically under the Talmudist banner.

    The first class is made up, for all intents and purposes, by those
important newspapers and magazines which are controlled or owned outright by
Jews, but often under the editorship of Gentiles. Today, over 47 weekly
magazines, with a circulation of well over 79 million, are owned or
controlled by the Talmudists.

    MAGAZINE                 OWNERSHIP AND/OR CONTROL

TV. Guide                     Walter H. Annenberg
McCall's                      Robert Stein, Editor
Good Housekeeping             Harrison Aaron Mitnich
Time                          Andrew Heiskell, Chairman
Newsweek                      Katherine Meyer Graham, Chairman
Sports Illustrated            Andrew Heiskell, Chairman
U.S. News & World Report      Lester Tanzer, Editor
Esquire                       Stanley Spregel, Vice Pres.
Sports Afield                 Harrison Aaron Mitnich, Treasurer

    In the even more important field of daily newspapers, over 909 major
daily newspapers are Talmudist owned and/or controlled. Following are the top
eleven:

    NEWSPAPER                OWNERSHIP AND/OR CONTROL

Wall Street Journal           Walter Henry Phillips, President
New York Daily News           I.W. Gold, Advertising Manager
Los Angeles Times             Simon Ramo, Director
New York Times                Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, President
Chicago Tribune               Edward Engle, Vice Pres.
Detroit News                  G. Gingold, Vice Pres.
Detroit Free Press            John Livingston Weinberg, Director
Chicago Sun Times             Howard A. Seitz, Director
Philadelphia Bulletin         Herbert Shugar, Director
Washington Post               Katherine Meyer Graham,Chairman
New York Post                 Byron S. Greenberg, Vice Pres.

    All the above newspapers are Jewish controlled. In addition, there are at
least 17 daily newspapers with circulation between 250,000 to 500,000 which
are Jewish owned and/or controlled. Examples are:

San Francisco Chronicle            Miami Herald
Atlanta Journal                    Indianapolis Star
Boston Globe                       Kansas City Times
St. Louis Globe-Democrat           Omaha World Herald

    All of the major TV networks are under the control of the Talmudists:

ABC                      Leonard H. Goldenson, Chairman
CBS                      William S. Paley, Chairman
NBC                      Robert W. Sarnoff, Chairman
Metro-Media T.V.         Herbert G. Klein, Vice Pres. and Director

    There is much more, but this will suffice for now.

    This same control can be traced in the media, Hollywood, the stage, the
sugar industry, the tobacco industry, the liquor industry, professional
sports, banking, the American Bar Association, the National Education
Association, pornography, prostitution, music, drugs and more. In other
words, by following the procedures laid down in The Babylonian Talmud, this
alien people, who make up less than 3% of our population, exert almost
complete control over once Christian America.

    Today, it is said that America is to blame for most of the ills which
afflict the world. It could much more accurately be said that the
International Talmudic financiers are the effect of our troubles. The cause,
as anyone who has read Deuteronomy 28 knows, is the disobedience of God's
people which always brings oppression from their enemies.

    So today, we see the confusing and frightening sight of a nation of 235
million people being controlled largely by a minority of less than 3%.
Deuteronomy 28:43 and 44 says: The stranger (alien) that is within thee
(Israel) shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very
low... he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail. This has happened
because our white Christian people have allowed it to happen.

    While Christians in America have been willing to open our doors and share
our freedoms with the Jewish people, they in turn do not want to share
America with Christians. They want it all! Whenever they are thus accused,
and their international plot exposed, they dredge up the plaintive cry of
"anti-Semitism," and publish another dreary account of what they call the
"holocaust." Anyone who commits crimes against our people should be tried and
punished. It does not matter who they are, minority or majority, Israelite or
Gentile, Jew or Christian.

    There will always be apologists for the Jews, especially among the
brainwashed forces of fundamentalism and evangelicalism. They will say: "Why
accuse all Jews for the crimes of the few?" It is because the Jewish
communities of America collectively cooperate with the Internationalists in
their crimes, and there are very few Jewish voices who speak out against
this. One who did a few years ago was Oscar Levy, who in the foreword of his
book, The Historical Significance of the Russian Revolution. stated that
while the Jews came to the world as our saviors, they were in essence its
"seducers and destroyers."

    The Talmudists for centuries have practiced the art of deception until it
has become a second nature to them. They have waged war on this earth for
over 25 centuries and are taught the art of deception from birth. This means
that every Jew, potentially, is a combat-ready intelligence expert.

    International Talmudic Jewry has always had a four-pronged strategy:

    1.   Manipulate the members of the host nation into helping the Jews, no
matter how  dangerous this assistance is to their own country.

    2.   If individuals refuse to cooperate, bypass them and take care of
them in the "mopping " operation.

    3.   If they actively resist, mark them for destruction and then destroy
them through    defamation of character which can be achieved through
controlled press, or even by using a nation's due process of law.

    Listen to their own words from their textbook Psychopolitics, page 52
(available from this ministry for $2.50 pp.): Recruit every agency of the
nation marked for slaughter into a foaming hatred of Christianity ... You
must subort district attorneys, and judges into an intense belief...that
Christian practice is vicious, bad, insanity-causing, and publicly hated and
intolerable. Just as in Russia, we destroyed, after many years, the Church,
so we must destroy all faiths in nations marked for conquest. (Emphasis
added.)

    The only faith which is inviolate, is the Talmudic faith of Judaism, and:

    4.   Never let any individual or organization in the host nation use the
media or the courts to counterattack Talmudism.

    This has become so successful in America that when a Jew attacks a
Christian, or some Christian practice, it is considered "freedom of speech
and the press," but if the Christian does the same thing, it immediately
becomes a "hate crime," with the horrible label of "anti-Semitic" attached.

    If I, as an Anglo-Saxon writer, were to charge openly that my writings
were not accepted, not because they were untrue, but because they exposed
Talmudism and could not pass Jewish censorship, there would be an immediate
hue and cry spearheaded by fundamental Christian leaders who would label me
an "apostate." Not because I had departed from Biblical truths, but because I
turned the spotlight of God's Word on His enemies! They would immediately
classify me as being prejudiced, although most of them do not even understand
the meaning of the term. The word "prejudice" comes from the Latin word,
"praejudicium" which means: "to form an opinion without knowing the facts."
But even when truths are painstakingly documented, both from Scriptures and
history, the prostitutes of Talmudism scream "apostate."

    Talmudism has one major flaw. It must work in secret in order to be
successful. So when people know the truth about this foe of mankind, they
will successfully defend themselves against it. The victims must not know
what is happening! They must either be lied to, or become so confused that
they refuse to accept the truth. This truth is self-evident: If Talmudism can
be exposed, it can be defeated! Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth and the
truth shall make you free." Truer words were never spoken. This is why all
attempts at exposure are greeted with howls of anguish from the Jewish
leaders who try to label the truth seekers as "kooks," "dangerous
extremists," "haters," "fascists," "neo-Nazis," and "anti-Semitics." They
cannot allow our white Christian citizens to know their plans. This is the
reason that books such as this are printed and why they are hated by the
Talmudists.

    When Jesus spoke to the Talmudist leaders in John 8:32-33, they revealed
the fact that they were not Israelites when they boastingly said: "We be
Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man;...."

    What more proof do you need that these Talmudist Pharisees were not of
Israel? Here they openly admit it. They are openly boasting of the fact that
they were never in bondage to anyone, which means they could not be Israel
since anyone who has ever studied the Bible knows that Israel had been in
bondage in Egypt for hundreds of years. (Try this one on your minister and
see how he will wiggle around this fact.)

    Since we are assured that "the truth shall set you free," we see the
Jewish world go to any lengths to keep the truth from our brainwashed people.
No matter what the rabbi at an ecumenical meeting may say to the goyim who
listen to him, rest assured that he is not seeking the kingdom of God on this
earth, but a material Jewish kingdom where he will be the master in control.
The desire of the Talmudists, according to their own writers, will be
fulfilled when the wealth of the word lays at their feet and all mankind bows
down before them.

    I believe that Henry Ford, Sr. understood this truth when he stated in
his book, The International Jew: If the Jews were fully understood by the
Gentiles (non-Jews), if the Christian churches, for example, were freed from
their delusions that the Jews are Old Testament people, and if the churches
really knew what the Talmudic religion was all about, this policy of
misrepresentation would die. This policy succeeds because there is a feeling
strongly entrenched in Christians by their religious leaders to the point
where their people believe it is dangerous to oppose the Jews in anything;
for whoever opposes a Jew, damns himself! The "fear of the Jews" is a very
real element in our life. It is as real among Jews as among "non-Jews " since
the Jew is bound by fear of his own leaders, and he exercises the fear of the
curse throughout all the sphere of his religion.

    If Jews were really Old Testament people, if they were really conscious
of a "mission for the blessing of all mankind," (which is our Israel
heritage, Ed.) the very things in which they offend the Christian world would
disappear. If the Jew is being attacked, it is not because he is a Jew, but
because he is the source and life of certain tendencies and influences which,
if they are not checked, will mean the destruction of moral society.

    In his book, The Writings of Benjamin Franklin. New York, 1905-1907,
author Albert H. Smythe writes: As the American colonies rose in revolt
against political oppression occasioned by the attempt of Jewish banking
houses in Europe to consolidate their economic foothold in the New World, no
man among the Founding Fathers was more alert to their designs than that
shrewd elder statesman of the American Revolution, Benjamin Franklin. Writing
to John Adams from Passy, France, November 26, 1781, Franklin declared: "I
think that keeping us out of possession of fifty thousand pounds sterling
worth of good for securing the payment of a demand for damages is not only
dishonorable treatment but a monstrous injustice. It seems to me that it is
principally with John Neufville of Amsterdam, Holland, we have to do; and
although I believe him to be as much a Jew as any in Jerusalem, I did not
expect that, with so many and such constant professions of friendship for the
United States with which he heads his letters, he would attempt to enforce
his demands by a procedure so abominable. His proposition of terms on which
he would borrow money for us stamped his character on my mind with an
impression so deep that it is not yet effaced."

    De Neufville was a Dutch-Jewish international banking house that wanted
to make a loan to the Continental Congress on the modest security of the
entire Thirteen States, with the stipulation that all American trade and
exchange would go through them. This is exactly what the International
Talmudists are attempting to do today with the Third World countries.

    Many of Franklin's letters revealed his utter loathing for these alien,
anti-Christ people who were attempting to get rich off the suffering of
Americans. His most damning indictment of Jewry was contained in his famous
prophecy before the Constitutional Convention of 1787 in Philadelphia. He
declared: I fully agree with General Washington, that we must protect this
young nation from an insidious influence and penetration. That menace,
gentlemen, is the Jews!

    In whatever country the Jews have settled in any great number, they have
lowered its moral  tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have
segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and
tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which this country was founded
by objecting to its restrictions; have built a state within a state; and when
opposed have tried to strangle that country to death, as in the case of Spain
and Portugal.

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Subject: [13texan] Jewish undermining of the Christian Faith
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:48:06 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88


    I am not now, nor have I ever, counseled radical reaction against Jews.
But, we do need an objective examination of what has happened in the modern
church which has caused her to lose her power. Ask yourself. Where do the
harmful influences come from which are destroying Christian America? Who are
the people who protest the use of Christian symbols in public places (and now
they are objecting to these symbols in privately funded areas) where, as a
Christian nation, we have displayed them for hundreds of years? Who protests
the use of a city park for an Easter sunrise program? Or protests the
performance of a high school presenting the Messiah each year at Christmas?
Who would deny your child the right to read his, or her, Bible in school
during their free time? They can read some pretty violent comic books, or
books from the school library depicting sex scenes, but God forbid if they
read their Bibles. The Bible has been made verboten by one group only.
>
>   I dare you to read objectively the controlled news. If you decide to be
objective, you will readily see that 90% of the complaints made against
anything Christian, many of which are downright stupid, come from Jewish
sources. Whenever you see an article in the news pertaining to some
right-wing Christian action, nine times out of ten you will see a statement
from some big-shot, Anti-Defamation League spokesman trying to explain that
action.Yet this agency is anti-Christian, anti-American and an unregistered
agent of a foreign country, operating illegally on American soil. Why is this
allowed? Why does our government allow the A.D.L. to act as an unlicensed
office of the Justice Department? They are the ones who are pushing for hate
legislation while operating as America's foremost haters and persecutors.
>
>   The attempt to take Christ out of Christmas and replace Him with Santa
Claus is Jewish backed. The attempt to replace Christ with the Easter bunny
during the Lenten season is another attack against what we have held sacred.
It is not prejudice or bigotry when I state these facts. It is truth and you
must recognize it as such. Ask yourself why is it allowable for a Christian
to criticize most anyone else; Catholic, Mormon, Moslem, Buddhist, etc., but
under no circumstances may you tell the truth about the Jews? Please don't
offer up that phony God's Chosen People bit, or misapply Genesis 12:3 as the
basis for your answer.
>
>   We have seen the sad spectacle in our colleges and universities of the
radicals who have sought to disrupt our educational process. It does little
good to attack these radicals when they are mostly immature youths. But, is
it wrong to show that most of this social radicalism comes from Jewish
sources, and that almost 100% of these radical college groups are run by
young Jews from wealthy Jewish families? This acknowledgment comes from sad
experience with them during the Vietnam War. See who it is that burns the
American flag, or uses it to wipe their feet. Who is it that immerses an
image of Christ on the cross in a bottle of his own urine? Why are a vast
majority of the more than 40,000 Marxist college professors also Jews?
>
>   During the Vietnam War, I worked the college circuit as I lectured for
the John Birch Society. I had 25 confrontations during that period with
radical groups, some serious physical confrontations which included an attack
against me at Kansas State University in Lawrence, Kansas, in April 1972. In
100% of these cases, these radicals were led by young Jews from wealthy
Jewish families. Was there a reason behind this? I believed there was, and in
the summer of 1979, I set aside all my scheduled activity to try and find out
what that reason was. I went to Jewish sources to gather information and
found that it was Jewish Higher Criticism, in both the church and school,
which had been responsible for the destruction in our youth of a sense of
respect for their Christian heritage of freedom. Additionally, I learned it
was the Jewish revolutionary social doctrine which went hand-in-glove with
Higher Criticism which was bringing about the long planned Jewish social
revolution. These two ideas cannot exist apart from each other as they are
mutually dependent, and they are the fulfillment of Talmudic teachings which
seek to split the goyim society by means of ideas.
>
>   Verification of this plan can be seen in the writings of the Jewish
author, Marcus Eli Ravage, in the January 1928 issue of Century Magazine. I
quote: We Jews are at the bottom of nearly all your wars; not only of the
Russian Revolution, but of every other major revolution in your history ...
We did it solely with the irresistible might of our spirit, with ideas and
propaganda.
>
>   Oscar Levy, another Jewish writer, in the preface to the book, The World
Significance of the Russian Revolution. said: There is scarcely an event in
modern Europe that cannot be traced back to the Jews. We Jews today are
nothing else but the world's seducers; its destroyers; its incendiaries; its
revolutionaries.
>
>   The Jewish Chronicle, a leading Jewish newspaper in the United States, in
its April 4,1918, issue stated: there is much in the fact of Bolshevism
itself, in the fact that so many Jews are Bolshevists, in the fact that the
ideals of Bolshevism (the forerunner of Communism, Ed.) are consonant(in
agreement with, Ed.) the finest ideals of Judaism (Talmudism, Ed.)
>
>   The American Hebrew, the leading Jewish newspaper in the United States in
1920 said: What happened in Russia shall also, through the same Jewish mental
(Talmudic, Ed.) and physical forces, become a reality over all the world.
>
>   The Christian world has known of these threats ever since Jewish radicals
in Thessalonica (see Acts 17:6) hauled Jason and other Christian leaders
before the civil authorities, accusing them of "turning the world upside
down."
>
>   The Jewish system of procedures, or Talmudic System, is known by
educators and seminarians, yet such is the power of the Talmudists, that few
are willing to put forth a warning of the destruction which awaits a sleeping
Christianity.
>
>   The Talmudic principle is simplicity itself. First, secularize and
humanize the public schools. Prepare the mind of the goyim children to accept
one-world propaganda. This can be vividly illustrated by a teacher's
handbook, published by a radical Jewish child psychologist by the name of
Paul Brandwein. In its opening statement, Brandwein said:
>Remember every child comes to school insane because of what they have
learned at home and in their church. It is your task as teacher to heal this
insanity and prepare the child to become one of the international children of
the future.
>
>   This book was in the Texas school system for a short time, but due to the
efforts of the Mel Gabler family, it was removed.
>
>   Ask yourself why it is that in our public (government) schools much is
made of "Black Studies Week," while much of the history that points to the
white Christian heritage of America has been withdrawn? Could it be that one
principle being used is to discourage our culture of patriotism, love of
country and its connection to the Christian faith? This is the liberalism
which is applauded by Jewry, the Jewish-controlled labor unions, the National
Education Association and many of our clergy and politicians. One of these
boldly declared: If the Jews can get away with it, more power to them. If the
Jewish idea is stronger than that of the Christian, let it win!
>
>   This is how Christian nations are destroyed! And, the fight is not being
waged fairly. How can children, or their parents, make proper judgments
regarding the best course of action for their families, or their nation, when
the media which is filling their living rooms daily with trash and lies, is
under the control of the very enemy they have need to fear. The great ideals
of Christian Anglo-Saxondom are kept from white people under the guise that
these ideals constitute "racism." It is not a fair fight when our white
Christian youth are offered Jewish-Talmudic ideas and ideals in place of
Christian American ideas and ideals. Let the Anglo-Saxon heritage of our
people have free course among their Anglo-Saxon sons and daughters and we
will see Christian ideas and ideals triumph 100% of the time. This is why
there is such an intensive drive on the part of world Jewry to keep the truth
from our white Christian people.
>
>   It was Judaism that began this struggle. They invaded this fair country,
not in order to make it a better place to live, but for their own gain. Let
no man or woman of the white race fear them. But let this fight be fought on
a fair basis. That is all that will be necessary for the truth to triumph! We
need not fear world Jewry, or the evils of Talmudism, as long as our people
are allowed to know the truth.
>
>   Today, our white society is confronted over and over again with the
horrid term,  "anti-Semitism." Yet there can be no such thing unless
"Semitism" first exists. The Jews love to complain how they were forced by
Christians to live in the ghettos of Europe, yet the ghettos were a Jewish
invention! The Jews have always desired to separate themselves because they
have always despised Christians. They are taught by The Talmud, that "contact
with the goyim contaminates them."
>
>   Yet strangely enough, it is not the Gentile who says that Jewish
Talmudism is incompatible with white Christianity. This separatism is
practiced by the Jews themselves! The Jew looks upon the Christian as a
"Johnny-Come-Lately," and since Americanism is of Christian origin and
invention, they are taught to despise it. The idea that America was founded
as a Republic is repugnant to the Jewish mind so they have set about to
change us into a socialist, democratic welfare state with them in control, of
course.
>
>   The Jew from the earliest times had gloried in religious persecution. It
is the thing which has kept their hatred alive, and the brainwashed minions
of Christianity have aided them in their deception. In his book, Israel's
Final Holocaust, Baptist Evangelist Jack Van Impe says that the Jews have
been persecuted throughout history because they were "God's chosen people and
Satan hated them." But this is not true! Scripture and history prove
otherwise. Jews have been run out of every country in Europe, not because of
their religion in itself, but because of their unscrupulous use of usury and
their immoral practices. There is no religious persecution of Jews in
America. There is religious prejudice brought about by the intolerable
Talmudic resentment for everything non-Jewish and practiced by Jews against
Christians. If the truth concerning Talmudic teachings were made known to the
majority of Christians, the Jews would be forced to leave America.
>
>   Religious prejudice is totally contrary to Anglo-Saxon genes. We have
always regarded a man's religion as a matter of conscience and allowed others
to believe as they will as long as they do not infringe on the rights of
others. This has always been an integral part of the American dream. But it
is interesting to note that the cry of "bigot," in America is raised by the
very people who are the world's worst bigots, the Jews.
>
>   One of the world-wide undertakings of the Roman Catholic church which has
received world-wide acclaim from Catholics, Protestants and even
non-Christians, has been the magnificent Passion Play of Obberramagau.
Hundreds of thousands flock to view the depiction of Christ's passion. Yet
the Jews see this as a vicious, anti-Semitic plot against them and have
forced the directors to change portions to conform, not to the truth, but to
Jewish demands.
>
>   Yet recently when a blasphemous movie was filmed in Hollywood under the
direction of the Jew, Lou Wasserman, entitled The Last Temptation of Christ,
and Christian anger rose to a new height against this blasphemy, Wasserman
went to Jerry Falwell, then head of the Moral Majority, asking him to temper
Christian protests. When Falwell suggested to this Jew that they remove the
movie from the market, Wasserman reacted with anger. Many of the liberal
pulpits of America praised this anti-Christ Jewish movie which made our Lord
out to be a whoremonger. This is the Talmudic mentality.
>
>   There is no politician in recent years who has been able to give evidence
of his Christian faith without coming under Jewish attack. As early as June,
1921, the Jewish press in America raised a clamor when it stated that
Christian churches were not competent to teach Americanism because the
churches held that Christian teachings and good citizenship were synonymous.
>
>   The parallel between the Protocols and Talmudism is so pronounced that
world-wide Jewry believes in the common  Jewish prophecy that "Christianity
is doomed to perish." Or, as one communist leader said, "We will banish God
from the skies." If Christianity should perish, it will be because it becomes
Judaized as is happening in a majority of our churches.
>
>   Have you ever wondered why with 45-million born-again Christian
Americans, according to their own estimates, our beloved country has been
sliding into hell at a faster rate in the past fifty years than at any time
in our history? Could it be that these professing Christians are the "salt
which has lost its savor" which the King talks about in Luke 14:34-35? He
said: Salt is good: but if the salt has lost his savour (its ability to act
as salt) wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor
yet for the dunghill (garbage dump); but men cast it out...
>
>   The main characteristic of salt is to stop corruption. Too much salt when
making bread stops the action of the yeast. Remember back before the days of
the deep freeze, when we salted our meat to preserve it? When salt loses this
property, it is good for nothing. How many Christians do we see these days
who fit this characteristic? When you find Christians who have lost their
salt, you will find he or she has probably come under the influence of
Judaism.
>
>   Throughout all of this, remember one thing: It is the "Jewish idea," the
Talmudic teaching which is the question at issue. It is not the Jewish people
themselves.
>
>

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Subject: [13texan] Jews sucking the Life blood out of many nations..
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:54:08 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

    For over 1700 years, the Jews have bewailed their sad fate in that they
have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen,
did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some
reason for not returning.  Why? Because they are vampires and vampires do not
live on vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must subsist off
Christians and other peoples not of their race.

    If we do not exclude them from these United States in the Constitution,
in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such numbers that they
will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government for
which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our substance and
jeopardized our liberty!

    Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will, no
matter how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never be
otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's and will not, even
though they live among us for ten generations. A leopard cannot change his
spots. Jews are Asiatics and are a menace if permitted entrance, and should
be excluded by this Constitutional Convention.

    For many years, this speech was found among the diaries of Charles
Cotesworth Pickney, of South Carolina, who attended the Constitutional
Convention as a delegate. Then mysteriously, it disappeared from the
Philadelphia City Museum in the 1930's and all references to it were
withdrawn. Immediately, the Jewish leaders in America gleefully pounced on
this as proof that the "Franklin prophecy" was a forgery, just as they said
the same for The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. The Communist Rules
for Bringing About a Revolution, and The Communist Textbook on
Psychopolitics. (I have this latter book available for $2.50 pp.)

    But whether Franklin's prophecy was fake or not, regardless of whether it
was an elaborate hoax, what he foresaw has come to pass. It is a painful
fact!

    If Benjamin Franklin was alive today, you can be assured that he would be
in the forefront of those who are trying to save this Christian nation from
Talmudic control. White Christian Americans must remember this fact, for it
is all important to our survival! The Talmudists are not the cause of our
overwhelming problems. They and the aliens in our midst, are merely the
effects of Israel's disobedience. (Deuteronomy 28 will graphically explain it
to you.) When Israelites become more concerned with "doing their own things,"
than in obeying their God, we can expect these things to happen. In Jeremiah
22:21 we read: I spake unto thee in thy prosperity; but thou saidst, I will
not hear. This hath been thy manner from thy youth, that thou obeyest not my
voice.

    In Deuteronomy 28, we get a clear picture of what will happen to Israel
if they obey their God. But, beginning with verse 15, we read dire warnings
of the price we will pay for disobedience. Think about Korea and Vietnam, as
you read verse 25: The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine
enemies: .... In both of these wars, we were whipped by nations smaller than
most of our states. We did not have a "peace with honor" in either of them,
no matter what charlatans like Henry Kissinger said to the contrary.

    Verse 33 continues: The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a
nation which thou knowest not eat up;... (Emphasis added)

    Think about this as you ask what has happened to our strategic food
supply since 1985. We have none now. In case of a national emergency this
nation would be hungry in less than thirty days.

    In verses 43-44 we read: The stranger that is within thee shall get up
above thee very high and thou shalt come down very low ... he shall be the
head, and thou shalt be the tail.

    Ask yourself what has happened to Anglo-Saxon leadership in America in
the last fifty years? Who controls our economy? It is not our own people.
America's economy is at the mercy of International Jewish Banking families,
eight of them in this order:

1.   ROTHSCHILD BANK of London and Berlin

2.   LAZARD BROTHER BANK of Paris

3.   ISRAEL MOSES SEIF BANK of Italy

4.   WARBURG BROTHERS BANK of Amsterdam and Hamburg

5.   LEHMAN BROTHERS BANK of New York City

6.   KUEHN-LOEB BANK of New York City

7.   CHASE MANHATTAN BANK of New York City (As you know, Chase  Manhattan is
controlled by the international Rockefeller interests.)

8.   GOLDMAN-SACHS BANK of New York City

    Each of these banks is Jewish controlled and today approximately 300
Jewish businessmen who are closely associated, often by intermarriage,
control the money system of the world. They control an interlocking,
international banking cartel of unimaginable wealth and power which has
stolen billions of dollars from the American taxpayer since the Federal
Reserve Act became law in 1913. All by the application of Talmudic banking
practices.

    According to Theodore Hertzl, father of modern Zionism, the Talmudic
question arises whenever Jews appear because they bring it with them. It is
not their large numbers which causes the problem, but their Talmudic business
principles and practices of which they love to boast. We will see when we get
into The Talmud itself how these Jews are allowed by their own laws to cheat
any goyim with a clear conscience.

    Jewish power has become so strong in America that we see a turning away
from the Christian principles of our founding fathers to the heathen
philosophies of Babylonia.  This is being accomplished by Jewish propaganda.
The Jews have always been known as "propagandists." They initiated the idea
of brainwashing, or thought control as it is more accurately titled. This was
the technique used against our fighting men in Korea and Vietnam, it is being
used to seduce millions of youth in our government schools, and it is used in
the Judeo-Christian churches of this nation. These are not Christian ideas,
or American ideas, but the ideas of a heathen, alien philosophy which is
contrary to everything we say we believe in as Christians.

    The Talmudists insist over and over again that they "gave us our
Scripture," "gave us our God," "gave us our religion," and gave us our
Savior!" None of the claims are valid since none of these things have a
Jewish origin.

    Few Jewish leaders claim any spiritual mission for Jewdom. Theirs is a
mission to control a one-world government under the wise men of Jewdom. As
far back as 1881, a Jewish spokesman, Goldwin Smith, professor of Modern
History at Oxford University, boastingly said:  We Jews regard our race as
superior to humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other
races, but our triumph over them.

    In 1858, the head rabbi of Europe stated: Wars are the Jews harvests, for
by them we kill off the Christians and harvest their gold. We have already
killed a hundred million of them, and the end is not yet!

    This was before the inter-family American Civil War and the fratricidal
WWI and WWII. Samuel Roth, a noted Jewish author, stated to a fellow Jew:  We
came to the world pretending to escape persecution, and we are the most
deadly persecutors in all the wretched annals of man.

    In The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion which I have mentioned
before and which the Jewish world calls a forgery, we read in Article II,
Par. 5: ... Through the press we gained power to influence while remaining
ourselves in the shade; thanks to the press, we have the gold of the world in
our hands, notwithstanding that we have had to gather it out of oceans of
blood and tears. But it has paid us, though we have sacrificed many of our
own people. Each victim on our side is worth, in the sight of God, a thousand
goyim.

    If an intelligent being from another planet were to visit this world,
they would react with shock if they were told that the greatest source of
strength of our enemies rested in, and emanated from, the Christian church.
Thinking Christians should read I John 2:22-23 which provides a perfect word
description of an anti-Christ. This description fits the Talmudists more
closely than any other group on the surface of this planet. Then in II John
10 and 11, we are told that anyone who gives these anti-Christs aid and
comfort in any way, even by word of mouth, "becomes partakers of their evil
deeds." The Babylonian Talmud calls our Savior and King, Jesus the Christ, an
"illegitimate bastard," (SANHEDRIN, 67a). In another place it says that
Christ is the "illegitimate son of a Roman soldier and a Jewish prostitute
named Mary, and that he was conceived during menstruation."

    How in God's name can those who go by the name of Christian support those
who by their own admission are anti-Christs, who hate everything Christians
are supposed to stand for and who openly advocate the destruction of the
same? If the libraries in our seminaries were required to identify the books
which were written by anti-Christ Jews, there would be a drastic reduction in
those pastors who have been brainwashed by the equally brainwashed
seminarians. The fiction that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were Jews will not
stand up to even the scantest Biblical research any more than the words of
Genesis 12:3 pronounce a curse against anyone who takes a stand against these
evil people.

    One of the pressing issues in the Christian world today should be an
effort to liberate our white Christian people from what the Scriptures call,
"Fear of the Jews." The pastors of our churches should be required to tell
our people the truth that the Jews today are not Israelites, and that most
certainly they are not all of Israel. This is readily proven by the obvious
conclusion that they do not carry any of the fingerprints necessary to
establish their claim. Following are but a few of the Scriptural fingerprints
of Israel:

    1.   Israel was to glorify Jesus the Christ, Messiah, who was prophesied
by the Hebrew prophets. Do the Jews demonstrate this glorification?

    2.   Israel was commissioned by Jesus the Christ to carry the message of
God's salvation to all men, everywhere (Matthew 28:18-20). For centuries, who
has carried out this commission? The Anglo-Saxon,. Celtic and Scandinavian
peoples. At any time since the birth of Christ, have the Jews witnessed to
anyone of God's salvation through Jesus?

    3.   Israel was to lose her identity as a people after God divorced them.
They were to be scattered among the nations and forget who they were. (Hosea
1:9-10) Have the Jews ever lost their "identity?" Even though most Jews today
are of Turko-Mongol racial extraction and have no racial heritage to the
tribes of Israel, they never stop shouting from the housetops that they are
the "Chosen Ones."

    4.   Israel was designated by God to be a Holy People because they were
His servants. They were to spread the word of God, His kingdom and His
salvation. The Jews certainly boast of being a "holy people," and a "superior
people," they never admit to being servants.

    5.   Israel was to bring forth Kingdom fruits. The Anglo-Saxon peoples
have, in varying degrees, been exhibiting these fruits. Can we point to a
time in the centuries  since the Christ where the Jews have done so?

    6.   Israel was to become known as "Sons of the Living God" following
their captivities and dispersion among the nations. Born-from-above
Anglo-Saxons have this distinction. The Jews have never been known by this
description.

    7.   Israel was to become a "company of nations," and a "great nation."
The United Kingdom and America certainly fulfill this prophecy. While the
Israelis can today claim to be a powerful military force in the Middle East,
it is only because America has pumped in billions of dollars and resources to
keep it afloat. Even their leaders admit that if we withdrew our support,
they would collapse. Reaching back into history from the time of Christ,
where have the Jews ever been a "great nation," or a "company of nations?"
History is silent.

    8.   Who are known as Isaac's Sons, or Sax-sons? Certainly not the Jews.

    9.   Israelites were to be great colonizers, taming the vast wildernesses
and establishing colonies which became nations wherever they went. The Jews
have been a scourge to all nations wherever they went and, in many cases,
those nations expelled them. They were not hated for "His namesake," but for
their Talmudic practices.

    Does your pastor teach that the Jews comprise all of Israel? The truth
is, they are not even a part of it! If you would like Scriptural and
historical facts to support this statement, write for my books, The Mystery
of True Israel. $7.50 pp and Who Are the Jews?. $2.50, pp. I challenge you to
read these two books, compare them with Scripture and history, and discover
for yourself what the Bible really says about the Jews as it contrasts with
the teachings of your pastor.

    As mentioned earlier, the flaccid, milquetoast condition of most American
Christian churches was not brought about by science, or by scholarship, but
can be traced to German-Jewish Higher Criticism. This trend in thinking
became popular during the nineteenth century when it was believed that to
have a full-rounded theological education, one must attend a seminary in
Europe. The defenders of our Bible and the Christian faith have been sadly
handicapped in the defense of their faith because they have not been shown
the origin and purpose of the Talmudic Jewish attack against Christianity. It
was not a Christian attack, nor a German attack, but a Talmudic Jewish attack
perfectly tuned to Talmudic teachings which were not discussed by Dr. Neusner
in his book about The Talmud. In fact, he was very careful to avoid reference
to them.

    The majority of economic and social mush which comes from our pulpits
today was prepared by Jewish professors who have infiltrated most Christian
seminaries, even those of the evangelicals and fundamentalists. It is no
wonder that concerned Christians refer to these apostate schools as
"religious cemeteries." Very little comes out of them except Talmudic
corruption. If there is any place where the Jewish question should be
honestly approached it should be in the Christian church. Instead, in their
"approved blindness," they are often champions of the very enemies who have
taken an oath to destroy them.

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Subject: [13texan] "White Christian Identity"
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 21:11:23 PDT
From: "Jeanne-Marie Zimmerman" 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Dear List: Martin Lindstedt wrote this regarding what is termed as "White
Christian Identity" and I thought it was worth passing on. JM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The purpose of Christianity -- to the World and to America--
is to take the message of Christ to those Christ said he was sent
onto:  The lost sheep of the House of Israel -- exclusively.

     Thus there are lost sheep of the House of Israel, and it is the
mission of those who call themselves Christians or followers of Christ
to do what Christ did -- minister unto the lost sheep of the House
of Israel.  Our fellow lost sheep must in turn be found andministered
unto just as we who were the lost sheep were found and ministered
unto in our turn by Christians.

    The real 'jews' are of the House of Judah, who were co-mingled
with the House of Israel.  Of those who were sent away to Babylon,
most stayed in those fleshpots and embraced Talmudism.  Even of
those 43,600 who did return, the purges of Ezra and Nehemiah did
not last, and the Judeans were trapped in Talmundic Phariseeism.
As a result, except for a few followers, who Christ sent to the
Lost Sheep of the House of Israel (Matt 10:5-6) Christ had very
little support from the real jews, with the result that these
Talmundic Jews were able to have him judicially murdered by the
Roman authorities.

    The 'jews' of today are a Turkic-Mongollian Eurasian mix of
which well over 90% are the so-called Ashkenazi 'jews.'  Their
descent from Ashkenaz, who was the son of Gomer(Gog), the nephew
of Magog, and the grandson of Japheth (See Genesis 10:3) has been
covered by myself several times on this listserver in response to
the khazar-worshippers.  Their worship, except for the Karaite sect,
is altogether Talmudic Phariseeism.

    Talmudic Phariseeism, with its numerous "traditions of man" which
Christ took exception to, and with its numerous blasphemies and hatreds
against Christ and Christians is racially and religiously incompatible with
Christianity.

    Thus the only Christian faith which is compatible with
Christ'smission and teaching is Christian Identity, which locates the" lost
sheep of the House of Israel" and proceeds to save them from the Satanic
mixture which is today's 'jewdeo-churchianity.'

    Thus the mission of Christianity today is not to turn White
Christians into khazar 'jews' or khazar 'jews' into White Christians,
breaking down both the natural bonds of differing races and religions,
but rather to rebond the White Israelite race to their rightful
Christian religion.

______________________________________________________

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Subject: [13texan] "THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE"
Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 22:43:16 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Jewish Research Proves Jews are not Israelites
By: Anonymous

Research Proves "Jews" are non-Israelite Asiatics!

DATELINE U.S.A.

In 1976 Random House published a book that should have hit the Christian
Churches like a
blockbuster, but instead they chose totally to ignore it. It dealt with the
racial origin of the
people in Communist and Christian countries who call themselves "Jews," and
whom the
Churches (and the Jews themselves) generally insist are "God's Chosen
People," the Israelite
descendants of Abraham.

Since the late 1800's a small number of Bible Scholars, who were also
students of History
and Racial origins, have insisted the Church denominations were wrong; that
instead of being
Israelites, these Jews from Eastern Europe and Western Asia were descended
from
Mongolians and other Asiatic peoples who had adopted Judaism as their
"religion" over 1,000
years ago and had become known as "Jews."

These Bible scholars were ignored or condemned, and often called "cultists"
or "anti-Semites."

Now, after many years of research, a well-known Jewish author, Arthur
Koestler has
published a 255 page book titled THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE in which he proves
the same
point; i.e. that these Eastern European "Jews" are neither Israelites nor
"Semites," but are
instead Khazars, Mongols, and Huns!

Most major newspapers and magazines reviewed the book during 1976. Also,
Random
House, the publisher, advertised it extensively and began some of their ads
with the following
headline: WHAT IF MOST JEWS AREN'T REALLY SEMITES AT ALL? In addition,
Random House quoted the following reviews:

"Mr. Koestler's excellent book...Is as readable as it is thought-provoking.
Nothing could be
more stimulating than the skill, elegance and erudition with which he
marshals his facts and
develops his theories..." Fitzroy Maclean, New York Times Book Review.

"You do not have to be Jewish to be interested... Are today's Western Jews
really ethnic,
Semitic, Biblical Jews, or are most of them descendants of converted
Khazars?...This
compact, interesting book...examines tragic-ironic implications in [this
question] for modern
history...It should fascinate." --Edmund Fuller, Wall Street Journal

"Koestler marshals the evidence in a clear and convincing way. He tells a
good story, pulling
together materials from medieval Muslims and Jewish travelers, scholarly
controversy and the
mysterious lore of the Khazars." --Raymond Sokolov, Newsweek

Robert Kirsch of the Los Angeles Times stated in his lengthy review that
'Arthur Koestler
publicizes with his customary skills a daring hypothesis: that THE KHAZAR JEWS
MIGRATED TO POLAND AND BECAME THE FOREBEARS OF EASTERN
EUROPEAN JEWRY...' Then Kirsch quoted Prof. A. N. Poliak of Tel Aviv
University, who
stated that "The large majority of world Jewry is descended from the Jews
of Khazaria." Then
he again quoted Koestler in THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE, "If so, this would mean
that their
ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga; not from Canaan but
from the
Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that
GENETICALLY
THEY ARE MORE RELATED TO THE HUN, UIGUR, AND MAGYAR TRIBES THAN
TO THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, AND JACOB..." (emphasis added)

We cannot stress enough how absolutely imperative it is for all Christian
Americans to
consider the startling proof in Arthur Koestler's book that today's Jews
are not Israelites. The
Jewish influence on American life has reached such a stage that no student
of contemporary
history can ignore it. Not only the news media are Jewish monopolies, but
top positions in the
U.S. government are largely filled by Eastern European Jews. The magazine
and book
publishing houses are in Jewish hands; and movies, television, and the
other entertainment
industries are dominated by Jews in all phases. America's government and
most of her
people's sources of information are controlled and directed by Jews. If
these people were
really "God's Chosen People," perhaps Americans would have little cause for
concern -- BUT
WHAT IF THEY ARE REALLY THE "HUNS" AND THEREFORE THE ANCIENT
ENEMIES OF CHRISTENDOM?

Since many Americans may not have an opportunity to read Koestler's book,
we shall
herewith submit our own index-style review.

THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE by Arthur Koestler, Random House, Reviewed by Pastor
Sheldon Emry

Page Information

15 Khazars adopt Judaism as their religion in A.D. 740.

16 Majority of Eastern European Jews are Khazar and Japhetic in origin, not
Semitic. Refers
to 1973 Jewish Encyclopedia and A. N. Poliak, Professor, Medieval Jewish
History, Tel
Aviv University.

17 Jews more closely related to Hun, Uigur, and Magyrs than to the seed of
Abraham Isaac
and Jacob.

18 Khazars exacted tribute from subject peoples.

20 Identified them with the hosts of Gog and Magog.

22 German word Ketzer is our word for Khazar and means heretic or Jew.

23 Khazars were with Attila the Hun in 4th century.

37-39 Some were phallic worshipers, killed anyone thought to be extra
intelligent and called it
an offering to god.

46 Quotes 1,000-year-old Arab historian, "The Khazars and their King are
all Jews...some
are of the opinion that Gog and Magog are the Khazars."

47-50 Khazars were re-exporters of foreign goods, middlemen, inspectors of
trade,
goldsmiths, and silversmiths; and they exacted 10% tax on all trade.

59-63 Jews fled Rome and Greece to Khazaria to avoid forced conversion to
Christianity.
They adopted Islam when forced but repudiated it when safe.

72 Khazar King, in a letter, traced his people in Togarma and Japheth, the
ancestors of all the
Turkisk tribes.

81 In A.D. 864 a monk wrote "there exists a people under the sky in regions
where no
Christians can be found, whose name is Gog and Magog, and who are Huns;
among them is
one called Gazari [Khazari?], who are circumcised and observe Judaism in
its entirety."
Koestler quoted another source that Christians were prisoners of these
Jews. (Comment by
reviewer: Compare with Communist Russia today. Jews are in high positions
throughout
Russia, but few Christians are left alive in the whole land! The leopard
has NOT changed his
spots.)

93 Russian communists tried to hide Khazar-Jewish connection!

95-132 History of breaking up of Khazar Empire and integration of these
Jews into Russia,
Poland, etc.

135 Khazar kingdom known as a kingdom of "Red" Jews.

141 Khazars joined Ghengis Khan and retained their Judaism.

145 Interchangeable names --Khazar, Zhid (or Yid), and Jew

151 Majority of Jews in Middle Ages were Khazars.

152-154 Jews were mintmasters, royal treasurers, tax collectors, and money
lenders.
Principal source of income was foreign trade and the levying of customs
dues and they
practiced communal life.

159-161 They lost the name of Khazars and became known as Jews. During Dark
Ages
commerce largely in Jewish hands, including slave trade.

163-167 During Crusades whole families and towns of Jews committed suicide
rather than
accept Christianity.

167-171 Proves only a handful of Sephardim Jews were in Europe so the vast
majority of
Jews today are Khazar in origin.

172-174 Gives origin of Yiddish language. It is NOT Hebrew!

178 "The Jewish dark ages may be said to begin with the Renaissance."
(Reviews comment:
This remark by the Jew Cecil Roth, coupled with other information, is a
sorrowful admission
that the Jews were supreme in the Dark Ages but lost their dominion over
Europe when the
LIght of God's Word brought about the Renaissance in Europe!)

180-199 Quotes from many sources to prove Jews NOT descended from Biblical
Israelites,
ending with this, ...evidence from anthropology concurs with history in
refuting the popular
belief in a Jewish race descended from the biblical tribe.

200-222 Refers to others who have written on the same subject.

223 Israeli's right to exist...not based on...the mythological covenant of
Abraham with God; it
is based on international law -- i.e., on the United Nations' decision of
1947...

224-226 Koestler ends his book by saying he believes many Jews have learned
of their
Khazar ancestry and now reject the Chosen- Race doctrine. (Reviewer's
comment: This
section of Koestler's book is practically a rejection of any relationship
between God and the
"Jews." It is a cry of We have no king but Ceasar heard 19 centuries ago
from the Edomite
Jews in Palestine!)

THE THIRTEENTH TRIBE proves beyond doubt that modern Jews are not Biblical
Israelites. Every church member in America should insist that his Pastor
investigate these
claims. Are our Jewish politicians, publishers, movie makers, and opinion
molders God's
"Chosen People"? Or are they Mongol and Hun infiltrators of Christendom?

Is The Jewish "Chosen People" Masquerade Finally Over?

Shortly after World War I, Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company,
assembled a
staff of experts in Detroit to conduct research on the European Jews who
had been entering
America in large numbers since the 1880's. Ford provided the staff with
several million dollars
for this research, and in 1923 he published the results in a four-volume
work titled "THE
INTERNATIONAL JEW."

It was Henry Ford's conclusion that very few of these people who called
themselves "Jews"
were descendants of the Bible Israelites. Ford further proved that these
Jews, using all sorts
of crimes while under the cloak of being the Chosen People of the Bible,
were rapidly taking
economic and political control of America.

In the religious field, Ford claimed THE JEWS HAD SECRETLY GAINED CONTROL
OF MOST PROTESTANT SEMINARIES AND CHRISTIAN BOOK-PUBLISHING
HOUSES and had been able to remove almost all criticism of Jews from
Christian literature.

In summing up his findings, Henry Ford stated, "The Jews are not the Chosen
People, though
practically the entire Church has succumbed to the propaganda which
declares them to be
so."

Ford's book caused a furor for a few years but soon disappeared from
colleges, universities,
and public libraries and became unobtainable at any price. The Churches
continued to teach
"The Jews are God's Chosen People, Israel," and the (by then)
Jewish-dominated news
media began to refer to Jews always as Israelites.

Anyone opposing the increasing Jewish control of the nations was
immediately branded
"anti-Semitic;" and Jewish dominated Seminaries taught new ministers to
quote Genesis
12:1-3 and sternly warn their flocks that anyone speaking unfavorably of
the Jews would be
"cursed by God." Jewish control of American society, politics, and
religions continued to
increase.

"Fear them not therefore; for there is nothing covered that shall not be
revealed: and hid, that
shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light:
and what ye hear in the
ear, that preach ye upon the housetops." (Jesus, in Matthew 10:26,27).

Buy it for yourselves and find yourself putting aside all the fallacies you
once believed in.

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Douglas Reed
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:25:18 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=874
> In a message dated 9/6/99 4:06:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << You are not a Christian, but a fake Christian who gets his
information
>  from liars and antisemites. Unlike you, Jews are not haters or
racists.
>  My sources are mainstream and truthful, the kind that ignore you and
>  yours as the lunatic fringe you are!
>   >>
>
>

> Michael Snead wrote:
> Phil, honey ,why are you so upset?

Honey?  Watch out some of your allies may get concerned about you!

 Whether you believe that I am a Christian
> or not matters very little to me. But to tell me that Jews are not
haters or
> racists I will hand this to you...YOU ARE A LIAR.

Why are you so upset Snead? Anyone with an IQ over 75 would simple know
that to assert a particular moral failing to an entire group of people
of a given race or ethnicity is ipso facto idiotic. Apparently this
does not include you.

 Your main stream sources
> are as bigoted towards Christians as you are.

No they are not, and you are not a Christian, but some aberrant strain.

 >If I am Lying why does it upset
> you so?

Lies shouldn't upset? What a curious view for a supposed Christian!

>I will answer that.... because you know that the chains of bondage on
> the knowledge of the American people are about to be loosed and
Holohoax
> Deniers such as your self will have to recant.

Oh, please, fools like you have been saying that for years. It's merely
an attempt to keep your own spirits up. Once people decided to stop
ignoring you and instead refute you lies, your efforts were doomed.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Phony Holohoax Numbers II
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:26:58 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=875
> In a message dated 9/6/99 4:27:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << >  Again you display hostility not only toward a woman but the
truth
>  too...are
>  > you Gay? Don't lie now.
>
>  Her sex has nothing to do with it. She, like you, are liars as
>  demonstrated. Look to thy wife Snead!
>
>
>  >  >>
>
>
> Unlike you Philip, I do look to my wife. So you are Gay Huh?

Perhaps when you get a chance you can explain that leap of logic. After
all, you're the one who uses endearments!

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 14:28:07 -0400
From: jsavage 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Hi All!

philnancy@aol.com wrote:
>
> Savage wrote:
>
> philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=830
> > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Snead wrote:
> > >
> > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806
> > >
> > > > The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their hate,
> > > lies and
> > > > their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices against the
> > > non Jew
> > > > and even goes as far as to call them racial names.
>
> The vile hatred comes from pretend Christian such as yourself. What you
> say about the Talmud is a lie, one demonstrated over and over again.

js
you are losing it Phil....this makes about the third time you
have answered this same response....and btw...I didn't write it!

As far as what is said about the talmud...it is VERY EASY
to research on your own...Go to a MAJOR library and put the
Soncino Press editions next to the Steinsaltz (made for
whitey) editions...Unless you are blind you can see the
differences with your own eyes....although I am sure that it
is hard for a plagerizer such as yourself to do their own
research...even such a simple task as this...


> > >
> > > Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been
> exposed
> > > as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews.
> Notice
> > > he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because he
> knows
> > > nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some
> website
> > > because they said bad things about Jews.
> > >
> > >  The old trick of the Jew
> > > > is when you expose them, they want to label you as anti-Semitic.
>
> A Jew hater is an antisemite. As are you for telling lies about the
> Talmud. You do that because you wish others to hate Jews as you do. For
> that you will one day answer to Him.
>
js
Didn't make this response either....Seems you have gone
ballistic since you were accused of being queer...I
have noticed you are even responding to your own responses
in places...

> > >
> > > The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
> > > antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't discuss the
> > > Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
> > > exposed.
> > >
> > >  >Then when
> > > > you don't let that phase you they will denounce your intelligence.
>
> There doesn seem to be a high correlation between low intelligence and
> idiotic belief. Less so with racism and antisemitism, but still
> substantial.
>

js
Another one that I didn't make....anybody have any idea as to
what "doesn" means....

> > > They
> > > > accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your
> remarks
> > > to twist
> > > > and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple questions
> that
> > > you ask.
>
> They accuse you of being what you are. It is your kind who twist facts
> and remarks to suit your purposes. When this is pointed out, the
> frustration usually results in posts such as this.
>

js
Didn't make this one either!...but I will respond to YOUR
answer....by asking you how these two facts are twisted??

Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? HE IS AN ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH THE FATHER
AND THE SON". (1John 2:22)

"WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE
FATHER: (1John 2:23a)

> > >
> > > None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of well
> > > known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
> > > response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of his
> > > convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we know
> > > why he can't, don't we!
> > >
> >
> > "I demolished them"???....appears to me you plagerized
> > another persons webpage and are now claiming the credit!
>
> I don't mean to say I wrote them.

js
You didn't!...What did you mean?....where is your documentation?
When one cuts and pastes it is VERY easy to include the source!
....and when one is caught it is easy to say " I don't mean to
say I wrote them."....are we led to believe that when you cut
and paste this article that you run out of memory on your clip
board and didn't have space to include the credits!

> >
> > Around here we call it...LIAR! LIAR!...pants on fire!
>
> A state you are well acquainted with.
>

Yes!....very much so...When one deals with frauds such as you
it is self evident...

> >
> > Here is one of your statements from another post....
> >
> > "Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> > authors and websites and pretend its learning."
> >
> > you should practice what you preach...
>
> I do. What I posted rebuts the lies and you are unable to respond.
>

js
OH!...I see...it is okay for YOU to parrot antiShemetic "crap from know
nothing authors and websites and pretend its learning."

Nonetheless I responded....Even gave the source of your rebuttal...the
Steinsaltz (made for whitey) edition of the talmud....

Go back to the webpage you so blatantly plagerized and go through his
impostures...

Make special notice of the ones he is "working on an answer"....

Do you know why he is working on an answer?....Do you think that
after 1500 years that this deceiver is the only one capable of
producing an answer?....He WILL NOT be able to answer them until
that volume of the Steinsaltz (made for whitey) edition is released!

Then it will be just a simple cut and paste job and he will have an
answer....DECEIVERS all work the same way...

Your plagerized claims are a sham!

> >
> > And here is another of your statements....
> >
> > "And I don't attempt to use scripture to support by views,
> > there is too much of that by people who feel the need to
> > buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord. "
> >
> > Your credability is sinking faster the the fecus of a whale!
>
> Based on what. I've not used scripture to support my views. Do you have
> trouble reading?
>

js
Not in the least!....But I know you do....the impostures you
plagerized contained Scripture??!....Therefore YOU HAVE used
Scriptures to support your views...

> >
> > And as far as you "destroying" any thing....it is just
> > a figment of your imagination....the source of the material
> > that you plagerized is from the Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
> > Edition of the talmud (a real bogus piece of material)....
>
> Unsupported allegation, as usual.
>

js
Do you see the words "the source of the material you
plagerized" ??   YES/NO

Do you see the words "is from the" ??    YES/NO

Do you see the words "Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
Edition of the talmud"?....     YES/NO

> >
> > You need to confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God
> > and be baptized for the remission of sins!....
>
> You need to worry about your own soul.

js
That is self interest...besides you have no idea of the
Biblical definition of a soul!

"And YHWH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man
BECAME A LIVING SOUL". (Genesis 2:7)

> You are the worst kind of
> sinner, a hater who hates in the name of the Lord. He will hold you to
> account and you will answer for it.

js
There you go again....making another JUDGMENT!....This is the
same action that you claim others DO NOT have the right to do!...

Aren't we pious!...

"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess
not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a
deceiver and an antichrist". 2John 7

JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD IN THE FLESH!!!

JESUS CHRIST IS MY LAW GIVER!...JESUS CHRIST IS MY JUDGE!

JESUS CHRIST IS MY KING!...JESUS CHRIST IS MY GOD!!!

Is he yours?

js
--
Strictly speaking, it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite
a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew".

                                       The 1980 Jewish Almanac

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Historians and Holocaust Denial
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:29:04 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=877
> In a message dated 9/6/99 7:17:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Nonsense, don't quote scripture to defend the indefensible. Jews
are a
>  tiny minority of the people throughtout the world who do not accept
the
>  Christian God, and yet you focus on them. The reason is not
religious,
>  or you would feel the same about other non-Christians. You just hate
>  Jews and you will one day answer to the Lord for that and for using
his
>  words to justify it. The judgment is the Lord's to make, not yours.
>
>   >>
>
>
> And on that glorious day we that are called by his name will
hear,"well done
> my good and faithful servant" on the other hand you will hear"DEPART
FROM ME
> YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

You're hallucinating! He will condemn you for hating in his name.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jewish Insecurity
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:52:28 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Savage wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=884
> Hi All!
>
>
> philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Savage wrote:
> >
> > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=830
> > > philnancy@aol.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Snead wrote:
> > > >
> > > > philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
> > > > original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=806
> > > >
> > > > > The vile hatred that the Jew will have when you expose their
hate,
> > > > lies and
> > > > > their beliefs. Their Holy Talmud is full of prejudices
against the
> > > > non Jew
> > > > > and even goes as far as to call them racial names.
> >
> > The vile hatred comes from pretend Christian such as yourself. What
you
> > say about the Talmud is a lie, one demonstrated over and over again.
>
> js
> you are losing it Phil....this makes about the third time you
> have answered this same response....and btw...I didn't write it!

You are confused.

>
> As far as what is said about the talmud...it is VERY EASY
> to research on your own...Go to a MAJOR library and put the
> Soncino Press editions next to the Steinsaltz (made for
> whitey) editions...Unless you are blind you can see the
> differences with your own eyes....although I am sure that it
> is hard for a plagerizer such as yourself to do their own
> research...even such a simple task as this...
>

I'm not a plagiarist and your assertions about the Talmud version is
another distortion. Other than that, do you have anything else to
offer, liar and Jew hater?

>
> > > >
> > > > Poor Snead is angry because his posts on the Talmud have been
> > exposed
> > > > as lies, part of his mindless campaign of hatred against Jews.
> > Notice
> > > > he makes no attempt to defend his exposed lies, that's because
he
> > knows
> > > > nothing of the Talmud, he merely posted lies he found on some
> > website
> > > > because they said bad things about Jews.
> > > >
> > > >  The old trick of the Jew
> > > > > is when you expose them, they want to label you as
anti-Semitic.
> >
> > A Jew hater is an antisemite. As are you for telling lies about the
> > Talmud. You do that because you wish others to hate Jews as you do.
For
> > that you will one day answer to Him.
> >
> js
> Didn't make this response either....Seems you have gone
> ballistic since you were accused of being queer...I
> have noticed you are even responding to your own responses
> in places...

Nice try.

>
>
> > > >
> > > > The old trick is to post the truth in response to the lies of
> > > > antisemites. As you can see when that is done they don't
discuss the
> > > > Talmud, they run and hope not to have anymore of their ignorance
> > > > exposed.
> > > >
> > > >  >Then when
> > > > > you don't let that phase you they will denounce your
intelligence.
> >
> > There doesn seem to be a high correlation between low intelligence
and
> > idiotic belief. Less so with racism and antisemitism, but still
> > substantial.
> >
>
> js
> Another one that I didn't make....anybody have any idea as to
> what "doesn" means.

Fits you to a tee!

...
>
>
>
> > > > They
> > > > > accuse you of being a liar. Ask asinine questions. Use your
> > remarks
> > > > to twist
> > > > > and turn to their advantage. Refuse to ask the simple
questions
> > that
> > > > you ask.
> >
> > They accuse you of being what you are. It is your kind who twist
facts
> > and remarks to suit your purposes. When this is pointed out, the
> > frustration usually results in posts such as this.
> >
>
> js
> Didn't make this one either!...but I will respond to YOUR
> answer....by asking you how these two facts are twisted??

Try reading it again.

>
> Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
> Christ? HE IS AN ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH THE FATHER
> AND THE SON". (1John 2:22)
>
> "WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE
> FATHER: (1John 2:23a)
>
> > > >
> > > > None of this was done of course. Snead posted a collection of
well
> > > > known canards about the Talmud. I demolished them, and his only
> > > > response is the above. Clearly he doesn't have the strength of
his
> > > > convictions or he would respond to the Talmud rebuttals. But we
know
> > > > why he can't, don't we!
> > > >
> > >
> > > "I demolished them"???....appears to me you plagerized
> > > another persons webpage and are now claiming the credit!

Go back and look at the posts. They were too long for this BBS and the
bottoms with full attribution did not print. In any event, the
refutations were solid and not one so-called Christian, especially you
who never says much of anything, cared to reply. I wonder why that is
Savage?

> >
> > I don't mean to say I wrote them.
>
> js
> You didn't!...What did you mean?....where is your documentation?
> When one cuts and pastes it is VERY easy to include the source!

See response above.

> ....and when one is caught it is easy to say " I don't mean to
> say I wrote them."....are we led to believe that when you cut
> and paste this article that you run out of memory on your clip
> board and didn't have space to include the credits!

My clipboard had plenty of memory, this BBS would accept the full
length and I didn't realize until after you raised the point. But why
don't you respond?

>
>
>
> > >
> > > Around here we call it...LIAR! LIAR!...pants on fire!
> >
> > A state you are well acquainted with.
> >
>
> Yes!....very much so...When one deals with frauds such as you
> it is self evident...

The only thing self evident is your inability to defend your own lies,
probably because you know they're lies and your used to merely trading
them with others of your ilk.

>
>
>
> > >
> > > Here is one of your statements from another post....
> > >
> > > "Nonsense. It is you who parrot antisemitic crap from know nothing
> > > authors and websites and pretend its learning."
> > >
> > > you should practice what you preach...
> >
> > I do. What I posted rebuts the lies and you are unable to respond.
> >
>
> js
> OH!...I see...it is okay for YOU to parrot antiShemetic "crap from
know
> nothing authors and websites and pretend its learning."

Show it to be crap, as I did. Of course you can't. Your "philosophy" is
dependent on the thinking of others, such as it is, and the only thing
you're capable of is ranting and raving in your complete impotence.

>
> Nonetheless I responded....Even gave the source of your
rebuttal...the
> Steinsaltz (made for whitey) edition of the talmud....

You did not respond.

>
> Go back to the webpage you so blatantly plagerized and go through his
> impostures...

Why can't you go through them? Show us. Make an argument for a change.

>
> Make special notice of the ones he is "working on an answer"....

You and your would do well to be so thoughtful in your replies.

>
> Do you know why he is working on an answer?....Do you think that
> after 1500 years that this deceiver is the only one capable of
> producing an answer?..

You mean your lies about those questions have been around for 1500
years? Hehe.

..He WILL NOT be able to answer them until
> that volume of the Steinsaltz (made for whitey) edition is released!

Is this the only thing you know about the issue, or is there another?

>
> Then it will be just a simple cut and paste job and he will have an
> answer....DECEIVERS all work the same way...

You're the deceiver, and liar, and Jew hater. Unfortunately for you
your also not too bright and that leaves you rather defenseless.

>
> Your plagerized claims are a sham!

The claims are not a sham and you are as speechless as a coward in
their wake.
>
> > >
> > > And here is another of your statements....
> > >
> > > "And I don't attempt to use scripture to support by views,
> > > there is too much of that by people who feel the need to
> > > buttress hateful views with the cloak of the Lord. "
> > >
> > > Your credability is sinking faster the the fecus of a whale!
> >
> > Based on what. I've not used scripture to support my views. Do you
have
> > trouble reading?
> >
>
> js
> Not in the least!....But I know you do....the impostures you
> plagerized contained Scripture??

Boy, you really aren't very smart, are you. I didn't cite scripture to
support any view of mine. The discussion was about the meaning of the
Talmud, so the Talmud was discussed. That's about a fifth grade
distinction.

!....Therefore YOU HAVE used
> Scriptures to support your views...

False. What view of mine did I use Scripture to support?  Good luck
fool.

>

> > > And as far as you "destroying" any thing....it is just
> > > a figment of your imagination....the source of the material
> > > that you plagerized is from the Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
> > > Edition of the talmud (a real bogus piece of material)....
> >
> > Unsupported allegation, as usual.
> >
>
> js
> Do you see the words "the source of the material you
> plagerized" ??   YES/NO

Prove the made for whitey fool.

>
> Do you see the words "is from the" ??    YES/NO

Read all the words, fool.
>
> Do you see the words "Steinsaltz (made for whitey)
> Edition of the talmud"?....     YES/NO

Exactly fool, now prove it.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > You need to confess Jesus Christ as the Son of God
> > > and be baptized for the remission of sins!....
> >
> > You need to worry about your own soul.
>
> js
> That is self interest...besides you have no idea of the
> Biblical definition of a soul!

Hehehe.

>
> "And YHWH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and
> breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man
> BECAME A LIVING SOUL". (Genesis 2:7)

Look to saving your soul, sinner.

>
>
> > You are the worst kind of
> > sinner, a hater who hates in the name of the Lord. He will hold you
to
> > account and you will answer for it.
>
> js
> There you go again....making another JUDGMENT!....This is the
> same action that you claim others DO NOT have the right to do!...

Nope, another sign of your stupidity. We're talking about make
judgments about whole races or ethnic groups, not based on anyones
behavior, but merely because they belong to that group. I have no
trouble judging Hitler or you. You both happpen to be Jew haters.

>
> Aren't we pious!...
>
> "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess
> not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a
> deceiver and an antichrist". 2John 7

For him to judge other religions who hold different religious views
from your. Of course your not really  concerned about the thought
expressed in this passage, you just hate Jews and this passage allows
you to malign them once again. That is what you will answer for .

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Descriptions of Gassing At Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:57:17 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

SS Unterscarfu"hrer Broad, Political Section (Gestapo) at KL Auschwitz:

"...There at the ramp the cattle vans were being unloaded and the people
who had arrived in them, were slowly march8ing towards their unknown
destination. All of them had large, yellow Jewish stars on their
miserable
clothes. Their worn faces showed that they had suffered many a hardship.
The majority were elderly people. From their conversation one could
gather
that up to their unexpected transportation hither they had been employed
in factories, that they were willing to go on working and to be useful
as
much as they could. A few guards without guns, but with pistols well
hidden in their pockets, escorted the procession to the crematorium. The
SS men promised the people, who were begining to feel more hopeful, that
they would be employed at suitable work, according to their occupations.
Explicit instructions as to thier behaviour were given the SS men by
Ho"ssler. Up till then the guards treated the new arrivals very roughly,
trying to 'keep them at arm's length' with blows, but their were no
uncivil words at that moment. The more fiendish the whole plan! Both
leaves of the big entrance gate to the crematorium were wide open.
Suspecting nothing the column marched in, in lines of five persons, and
stood in the yard. Somewhat nerviously the SS guard at the entrance
waited
for the last man to enter the yard. Quickly he shut the gate and bolted
it. Grabner and Ho"ssler were standing on the rof of the crematorium.
Grabner spoke to the Jews who unsuspectingly awaited their fate.

"'You will now bathe and be disinfeted, we don't wan't any epidemics in
the camp. Then you will be brought to your barracks, and get some hot
soup. You wil be employed in accordance with your professional
qualifications. Now undress and put your clothes in front of yoiu on the
ground.'

"They willingy followed those instructions, given them in a friendly,
warm-hearted voice. Some looked forward to the soup, others were glad
that
that their nerve-wracking uncertainty as to their immediate future was
over and that their worst expectations were not realized. All felt
relieved after theiur days full of anxiety. Grabner and Ho"ssler
continued
from the roof to give freindly advice which had a calming effect upon
the
people. 'Put your shoes close to your clothes bundle, so that you can
find
them after the bath'. - "Is the water warm? Of course, warm showers. -
What is your trade? A shoemaker? We need them urgently, report to me
immediately after!'  - Such words dispelled last doubts or lingering
suspicions. The first lines entered the morturary thrugh the hall.
Everything was extremely tidy. But the specific smell made some of them
uneasy. They looked in vain for showers or water pipes fixed to the
ceiling. The hall meanwhile was getting packed. Several SS men had
entered
with them, full of jokes and small talk. They inobtrusuvely kept their
eyes on the entrance. As soon as the last person had entered, they
dissapeared without much ado. Suddenly the door was closed. It had been
made tight with rubber and secured with iron fittings. Those inside
heard
the heavy bolts being secured. They were screwed with screws, making the
door airtight. A deadly, paralysing terror spread aong the victims. They
started to beat upon the door, in helpless rage and despair they
hammered
with their fists upon it. Derisive laughter was the only reply. Somebody
shouted through the door, 'Don't get burn't, while you tke your bath!' -
Several victims noticed that the covers had been removed from the six
holes in the ceiling. They uttered a loud cry of terror when they saw a
head in a gas-mask in one opening. The 'disinfectors' were at work. One
of
them was SS _Unterscarfu"hrer_ Teur, decorted with the Cross of War
Merit.
With a chisel and a hammer they opened a few inncously looking tins
which
bore the inscription 'Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention,
poison! To be opened by trained personnel only!' The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after opening
the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which were then
quickly
covered...." (Czech, _KL Auschwitz_, pp.175-176.)

SS Obersturmbannfu"hrer Ho"ss, 1st Kommandant of KL Auschwitz:

"In the spring of 1942 [January] the first transports of Jews arrived
from
Upper Silesia. All of them were to be exterminated. They were led from
the
ramp across the meadow, later named section B-II of Birkenau, to the
farmhouse called Bunker I. [Camp Commander] Aumeier, Palitzch, and a few
other block leaders led them and spoke to them as one would in casual
conversation, asking them about their occupations and their schooling in
order to fool them. After arriving at the farm house they were told to
undress. AT first they went very quietly into the rooms where they were
suposed to be disinfected. At that point some of them became suspicious
and started talking about suffocation and extermination. Immediately a
panic started. Those stil standing outside were quickly driven into the
chambers, and the doors were bolted shut. In the next transport those
who
were nervous or upset were identifed and watched closely at all times.
As
soon as unrest was noticed these troublemakers were inconspiciously led
behind the farmhouse and killed with a small-caliber pistol, which could
not be heard by the others. The presence of the Sonderkommando and their
soothing behavior also helped calm the restless and suspicious. Some of
the SOnderkommando even went with them into the rooms and stayed until
the
last moment to keep them calm while an SS soldier stood in the doorway.
The most important thing, of course, was to maintain as mucg peace and
quitr as possible during the process of arriving and undressing. If some
did not want to undress, some of those already undressed as well as the
Sonderkommando had to help them undress.

"With quite talk and persuasion even those who resisted were soothed and
udressed. The Sonderkommando, which was composed of prisoners, took
great
pains that the process of undressing took place very quickly so that the
victims had no time to think about what was happening. Actually the
eager
assistance of the Sonderkommando during the undressing and the processin
into the gas chambers was very peculiar. Never did I see or hear even a
syllable breathed to those who were going to be gassed as to what their
fate was. On the contrary, they tried everything to fool them. Most of
all, they tried to calm those who seeed to guess what was ahead/ Even
though they might not believe the SS soldiers, they would have complete
trust in those of their own race. For this reon the SOnderkommando was
always composed of Jews from the same country as those who were being
sent
to the gas chambers." (Ho"ss, _Death Dealer_, pp. 157-158.)

Prisoner Doctor, and Auschwitz survivor, Miklos Nyiszli :

"...Five abreast the group entered the courtyard; it was the moment
about
which the outside world knew nothing, for anyone who might have known
something about it, after having treaveled the path of his destiny- the
300 yards seperating that spot from the ramp -had never returned to tell
the tale. It was one of the crematoriums which awaited those who had
been
selected for the left-hand column. And not, as the German lie had made
the
right-hand column suppose in order to allay their anxiety, a camp for
the
sick and children, where the infirm cared for the little ones.

"They advanced with slow weary steps. The children's eyes were heavy
with
sleep and they clung to their mothers' clothes. For the most part the
babies were carried in their fathers' arms, or else wheeled in their
carriages. The SS guards remained before the crematorium doors, where a
poster announced: 'Entrance is Strictly Forbidden to All Who Have No
Business Here, Inclusing SS.'

"The deportees were quick to notice the water faucets, used for
sprinkling
the grass, that were arranged about the courtyard. They began to take
pots
and pans from their luggage, and broke ranks, pushing and shoving in an
effort to get near the faucets and fill their containers. That they were
impatient was not astonishing: for the past five days they had had
nothing
to drink. If ever they had found a little water, it had been stagnant
and
had not quenched their thirst. The SS guards who recieved the convoys
were
used to the scene. They waited patiently till each had quenched his
thirst
and filled his container. IN any case, the guards knew that as long as
they not drunk their would be no getting them back in line. Slowly they
began to re-form their ranks. Then they advanced for about 100 yards
along
a cinder path edged with green grass to an iron ramp, from which 10 or
12
concrete steps led underground to an enourmus room dominated by a large
sign in German, French, Greek and Hungarian: 'Bath and Disinfecting
Room.'
The sign was reassuring, and allayed the misgivings of fears of even the
most suspicious among them. They went down the stairs almost gaily.

"The room in which the convoy proceeeded was about 200 yards long: its
walls were whitewashed and it was brightly lit. In the middle of the
room,
rows of columns. Around the columns, as well as along the walls,
benches.
Above the benches, numbered coat hangers. Numerous signs in several
languages drew everyoe's attention to the necessity of tying his clothes
and shoes together. Especially that he not forget the number of his coat
hanger, in order to avoid all the useless confusion upon his return from
the bath.

"'That's really a German order,' commented those who had long been
inclined to admire the Germans.

"They were rihgt. As a matter of fact, it _was_ for the sake of order
that
these measures had been taken, so that thousands of pairs of good shoes
sorely needed by the THird Reich would not get mixed up. The same fotr
the
clothes, so that the population f bombed cities could easily make use of
them.

"There were 3,000 people in the room: men, women and children. SOme of
the
soldiers arrived and announced that everyone must be completely
undressed
within ten minutes. The aged, grandfathers and grandmothers, the
children,
wives and husbands and girls looked at each other questioningly. Perhaps
they had not exactly understood the German words. They did not have long
to think about it, however, for the order resounded again, this time in
a
louder, more menacing tone. They were uneasy; their dignity rebelled;
but,
with resignation peculiar to their race, having learnt that anything
went
as far as they were concerned, they slowly began to undress. The aged,
the
paralyzed, the mad were helped by a Sonderkommando squad sent for that
purpose. In ten minutes all were completely naked, their clothes hung on
the pegs, their shoes attached together by their laces. As for the
number
of each clothes hanger, it had been carefully noted.

"Making his way through the crowd, an SS opend the swig-doors of the
large
oaken gate at the end of the room. The crowd flowed through into another
equally well-lighted room. The second room ws the same size as the
first,
but neither benches nor pegs were to be seen. In the center of the room,
at thirty-yard intervals, columns rose from the concrete floor to the
ceiling. They were not supporting columns, but square sheet-iron pipes
the
sides which contained numerous perforations, like a wire lattice.

"Everuone was inside. A horse comand rang out: 'SS and Sonderkommando
leave the room." They obeyed and counted off. The door swung shut and
fromn without the lights were switched off.... (Nyiszli, _Auschwitz_,
pp.48-51.)

Filip Mu"ller, Sonderkommando and Auschwitz survivor:

"Before each gassing operation the SS took stern precuations. The
crematorium was ringed with SS men. Many SS men patrolled the court with
dogs and machine guns. To the right were the steps that led underground
to
the 'undressing room." In Birkenau there were four crematoriums,
Crematoriums 2, 3, and 4 and 5. Crematorium 2 was similar to 3. In 2
and 3
the 'undressing room' and the gas chamber were underground. A large
'undressing room' of about three thousand square feet, and a large gas
chamber where one could gas up to three thousand people at a time.
Crematoriums 4 and 5 were of a different types in that they weren't
located underground. Everyhting was at ground level. IN 4 and 5 there
were
three gas chabers, with a total capacity of at most eighteen hundred to
two thousand people  at a time.

As people rached the crematoriums, they saw everything- this horribly
violent scene. The whole area was ringed with SS. Dogs barked. Machine
guns. They all, mainly POlish Jews, had misgivings. They knew something
was seriously amiss, but none of them had the faintest of notions that
in
three to four hours they'd be reduced to ashes.

"When they reached the 'undressing room,' they saw that it looked like
an
Internatinal Information Center! On the walls were hooks, and each hook
had a number. Beneath the hooks were wooden bences. Sp people could
undress 'more comfortably,' it said. And on the numerous pillars that
held
up this undrground 'undressing room,' there were signs with slogans in
several languages" 'Cleam is good!' 'Lice ca kill!' 'Wash yourself!' 'To
the disinfection area.' All those signs were only there to lure people
into the gas chambers already undressed. And to the left, at a right
angle, was the gas chamber with its massive door.

"In Crematoriums 2 and 3, Zyklon gas crystals were poured in by a
so-called SS disinfection squad through the ceiling, and in
Crematoriums 4
and 5 through side openings. With five or six cannisters of gas they
could
kill around two thousand people. This so-called disinfection squad
arrived
in a truck marked with a red cross and escorted people along to make
them
believe they were being led to take a bath. But the red cross was only a
mask to hide the cnnisters of Zyklon gas and the hammers to open them.
The
gas took about ten to fifteen minutes to kill. The most horrible thing
was
when the doors of the gas chambers were opened- th unbearable sight:
people were packed together like basalt, like blocks of stone. How they
tumbled out of the gas chamber! I saw that several times. That was the
toughest thing to take. You could never get used to that. It was
impossibel."

"...It was pointless to tell the truth to anyone who crossed the
threshold
of the crematorium. You couldn't save anyone there It was impossible to
save people. One day in 1943 when I was already in Crematorium 5, a
train
from Bialystok arrived. A prisoner on the 'special detail' saw a women
in
the 'undressing room' who was the wife of a friend of his. He came right
out and told her: 'You are going to be exterminated. In three hours
you'll
be ashes.' The women believed him because she knew him. She ran all over
and warned the other women. 'We're going to be killed. We're going to be
gassed.' Mothers carrying their children on their shoulders didn't want
to
hear that. They decided the womam was crazy. They chased her away. So
she
went to the men . TO no avail. Not that they didn't believe her; they
heard rumors in the Bialystok ghetto, or in Grodno, and elsewhere. But
who
wanted to hear that! Whe she saw that no one would listen, she scratched
her whole face. Out of despair. In shock. And she started to scream.

"So what happened? Everyone was gassed. The woman was held back. We had
to
line up in front of the ovens. First they tortured her horribly because
she wouldn't btray him. IN the end she pointed to him. He was taken out
of
line and thrown aive into the oven. We were told: 'Whoever tells
anything
will end like that.'

"We in the special detail kept trying to figure out if there was a way
we
could tell people, to inform them. But out experiance in several
instances
where we were able to tell people, showed that it was no use, that it
made
their last moments even harder to bear. At most, we thought it might
help
Jews from Poland, or Jews from Theresienstadt (the Czech family camp),
who'd already spent six months in Birkenau. We thought it might have
been
of use in such cases to tell such people. But imagine what it was like
in
other cases: Jes from Greece, from Hungary, from Corfu, who'd been
traveling for ten ot twelve days, starving, without water for days,
dying
of thirst, they were half crazed whe tey arrived. Tey were dealt with
differently. They were only told: 'Get undressed, you'll soon get a mug
of
tea.' These peole were in such a state, because they'd been traveling so
long, that their only though was to quench their thirst. And the SS
executiners knew that very well. It was all preprogrammed, a calculated
part of the extermination process, that if people were so weak, and
weren't given somethiung to drink, they'd rush into the gas chambers.
But
in fact, these people were already being exterminated before reaching
the
gas chambers. Think of the children. They begged their mothers,
screaming:
'Mother, please, water, water!' The adults too, who'd spent days without
water, had the same obsession. Informing those people was quite
pointless.
(Lanzmann, _Shoah_, pp.113-117.)

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Jews sucking the Life blood out of many nations..
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:01:27 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=880
> The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the
necessity
> to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the
Talmud are
> repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has
worked so
> hard to write.
> Michael Snead
> 14/88
>
>
>
>     For over 1700 years, the Jews have bewailed their sad fate in
that they
> have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But
gentlemen,
> did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find
some
> reason for not returning.  Why? Because they are vampires and
vampires do not
> live on vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must
subsist off
> Christians and other peoples not of their race.
>
>     If we do not exclude them from these United States in the
Constitution,
> in less than 200 years they will have swarmed here in such numbers
that they
> will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government
for
> which we Americans have shed our blood, given our lives, our
substance and
> jeopardized our liberty!
>
>     Jews, gentlemen, are Asiatics, let them be born where they will,
no
> matter how many generations they are away from Asia, they will never
be
> otherwise. Their ideas do not conform to an American's and will not,
even
> though they live among us for ten generations. A leopard cannot
change his
> spots. Jews are Asiatics and are a menace if permitted entrance, and
should
> be excluded by this Constitutional Convention.
>
>     For many years, this speech was found among the diaries of
Charles
> Cotesworth Pickney, of South Carolina, who attended the
Constitutional
> Convention as a delegate. Then mysteriously, it disappeared from the
> Philadelphia City Museum in the 1930's and all references to it were
> withdrawn. Immediately, the Jewish leaders in America gleefully
pounced on
> this as proof that the "Franklin prophecy" was a forgery, just as
they said
> the same for The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. The
Communist Rules
> for Bringing About a Revolution, and The Communist Textbook on
> Psychopolitics. (I have this latter book available for $2.50 pp.)
>

Mr. Martin peddles a often debunked canard reqarding the non-existent
Pickney Diaries. In a book called _They Never Said It_ authors Boller
and George say on page 27.:

Boller and George's fine book, _They
Never Said It_. The Franklin quote is a forgery.  I quote from
page 27:

"The Franklin quote apparently first turned up on February 3, 1934
in William Dudley Pelley's pro-Nazi sheet, _Liberation_, published
in Asheville, North Carolina.  According to Pelley, it was taken
>from  notes made by Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, delegate to the
Constitutional Convention from South Carolina... But there is
no Pinckney diary, and historian Charles Beard, after a thorough
investigation... concluded: "This alleged `Prophecy' ascribed to
Franklin is a crude forgery.. . There is in our historical
records no evidence whatever of any basis for the falsehood."

It is telling that Martin and his cohorts must resort to fake documents
such as this and the Protocols to support their hate filled efforts to
malign Jews.  The idea that someone of Franklin's intelligence and
worldview would support their vile antisemitism is laughable.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 13:36:53 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

 Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists

["Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White Racists" (an article from
the Christian Research Journal, Fall 1992, page 20) by Viola Larson. The
Editor-in-Chief of the Christian Research Journal is Elliot Miller. ]

                            SUMMARY

"Christian Identity" is the name of a religious movement uniting
many of the white supremacist groups in the United States. Identity's
teachers promote racism and sometimes violence.  Their roots are deeply
embedded in movements such as the Ku Klux Klan and the Nazis. They
consider themselves true Israel and view the Jews as half-devils
and arch enemies. They believe all but the white race are inferior
creations. Identity's religious views are bizarre and occultic, and
their view of history is often informed by conspiracy theories.
Identity's use of the name "Christian" to promote racism and
violence is blasphemous. Jesus Christ as redeemer of all races is
God's supreme answer to Identity's outrageous claims.

The headline read "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho." The story was
about Randy Weaver, a man indicted for selling two sawed-off
shotguns to undercover federal agents. During the FBI's attempt
to force Weaver to leave his Idaho home and return to court, three
people were killed: a federal agent and Weaver's wife and son. When
the standoff was over, 15 handguns, shotguns, and rifles were collected
from his cabin.[1] Randy Weaver is a member of a religious movement
called "Christian Identity." This "Christian" wing of the larger
white supremacist movement is composed of adherents who variously
give allegiance to the burning cross of the Ku Klux Klan and the
sun sign -- the twisted swastika -- of the Neo-Nazis.

The movement, also called "Israel Identity," has become the uniting
force among many white supremacist groups.  Included in most religious
teaching produced by its leaders are racist statements that echo
the statements of other white supremacists. The most moderate groups
publish hate literature; the more radical groups turn to violence,
including murder. Among those attracted to Identity in recent years
are racist and violent young "skinheads" -- some of whom were a part
of the crowd of three hundred people who chanted racial slurs
at federal marshals attempting to capture Weaver.

Although Identity groups are small in number and diverse, their
penchant for social agitation attracts widespread media attention.
The recent discovery that racist groups in the United States
are supplying both literature and organizational help to racist
groups in Germany is of concern to the whole Western world. One
article by the Associated Press states that "violent acts perpetrated
by far-right German extremists rose from 270 in 1990 to 1,483 last
year, mostly attacks on foreigners."[2] The article goes on to
say that "police investigating KKK activities in Germany raided
some 30 buildings in May."[3]

Not understanding the violent and racist nature of Identity,
Christians sometimes connect with this movement because of Identity's
espousal of issues such as right-to-life and anti-Communism. Because of
this vulnerability it is important for Christians to know and
understand Identity's false and racist teachings. For the sake of
non-Christians, it is also important for Christians to differentiate
between biblical
Christianity and Identity. Finally, it is the moral duty of Christians
to stand against the evil intent of this form of white supremacist
teaching. It is to further each of these three purposes that this
article has been written.

                                  THE JEW AS THE GREAT ENEMY

Identity adherents believe they are the only descendants of Adam and
the only chosen descendants of Abraham. This is the reason for the name
Identity -- they are convinced they know their true identity. They
believe they are members of the supposed ten lost tribes of Israel.
Identity adherents
of today would include the British, Germanic, and Scandinavian peoples
as those comprising the tribes of lost Israel. On the other hand, the
Jew has for them
become the great enemy. This insistence on singling out Jewish people
as the enemy of the white race is the Identity movement's most clear
link to Adolf Hitler and his Nazi ideas. The more extreme groups
believe in what is referred to as the "serpent seed" teaching that Eve
and Satan had sexual
intercourse and produced Cain, starting a line of half-devil people.
For many Identity groups this imagined half-devil line of Cain is the
Jewish race.

Pastor Arnold Murray, an Identity preacher from Gravette, Arkansas,
calls them "Kenites" (an Old Testament people he identifies as
"Cainites") and believes they were associated with Judah until they
took over leadership of
that tribe. These "Jews" were the people who killed Christ. Pastor
Murray teaches that calling the Jews the chosen people of God is the
gravest of sins. He says, "Bless your heart if you have ever been
deceived by the Kenite, and I
am speaking now on the spiritual level, if you have ever really
believed that group was the chosen of God you were deceived by Satan.
Repent of that even more so than your personal sins in the personal
sense."[4]

Some other Identity teachers believe the Jews are children of Satan
only in a figurative sense. But this really does not change their
attitude toward Jewish people -- their statements about the Jews still
reflect a deep hatred. One writes about the Jew: "We know that as a
race, they have the sly
characteristics of the serpent...We know they have intimidated and
imposed their will on our own government and every government in the
nations of Christendom, through their dominance of finance, government,
church, education, and the media."[5] In this scenario, a political
position begins to emerge: the Jews are placed in a position of
conspirators with Satan to take dominion over the world. In an awful
reversal of their biblical role, the true Jewish
people are now cast as the archenemy of God and humanity. Claiming the
sacred history and the sacred Book for themselves, Identity teachers
remove all that is a part of the Jew's humanity.

                            RACISM: THE BASIS OF IDENTITY TEACHING

Racial bigotry extends far beyond the Jews in Identity teaching. Since
the white race alone has descended from Adam, the other races are
viewed as a prior creation. They insist that Genesis 1:24, which
describes the creation of
animals and is prior to the creation of Adam, includes a description
of all nonwhite races. In that list of created beings -- "cattle and
creeping things and beasts of the earth" -- they single out the word
beast as a description of other races. This of course means they
believe the other races are inferior. All Identity teachers refer to
the word beast to explain how other races escaped the flood; they were
included among the creatures that Noah and his sons rounded up for the
ark.

Because Identity teachers hold that the other races are of a different
creation, they consider interracial marriage a sin. Identity teachers
insist that interracial marriage was the cause of God's judgment on the
people of Noah's time. Consistent with this twisted view of Scripture,
they believe that to marry someone of another race is treason to one's
own race. Pastor Pete Peters of La Porte, Colorado informs us that he
teaches his children to never marry a person of another race. He adds:
"I teach them also that if they ever did such a thing -- never to come
around my house with their mate or their half-breed children because
they've been traitors to their own sires."[6] Some teachers -- such as
Richard Butler and his Aryan Nations, and Dan Gayman and his Church of
Israel -- see the black race as aliens and cohorts with Satan, and all
other races as creatures who, like animals, have no spirits. In the
fantasy world of extreme Identity, when Lucifer rebels he uses
spacecraft and fights battles against God with the help of beings from
other planets. The alien beings are forced to earth according to one
tape: "For the fleet...came to earth like crumpled birds and...some
survived and...some were wiped out....the dark and curly-headed ones
never before seen upon the earth,
the coming of the Negroid race."[7]

Although Arnold Murray affirms that all the other races are good, he
offers the public, without apology, the book Tracing Our Ancestors by
Frederick Haberman. Haberman writes: "It must be noticed that there is
a great difference between the three principal races of mankind...and
there exists little relationship between the three. The white race were
unquestionably the last comers, being in every way superior to the
other two and constituting their
leaders and teachers."[8] Pastor Murray also teaches that even among
Christians the different races should have no fellowship.[9] All
Identity groups certainly see the white race ruling over the other
races.

                                   IDENTITY'S RACIST HISTORY

                                    Racism as Science and History.

Many of Identity's racist ideas can be traced to the late 18th and
early 19th centuries. Esoteric sounding theories, propagated by
intellectuals and college professors of the day, were used to prove the
inferiority of some races. These theories have been disproved by modern
scholarship but are kept alive by the racist of today. One of the terms
common to such theories was physiognomy, an ancient method for
determining human character by the study of facial features. This
included comparing those features to animal ones.[10]
Also, many historians of the time were highly nationalistic and,
therefore, prone to write with a high regard for the white race.

                                          Religious Racism

Another form of racism developed along religious and nationalistic
lines. The growing concern of the peoples in the West (including the
United States) with their own national interest led to some strange
ideas about national identity. In the United States a theory called
"Manifest Destiny" evolved. That view included the understanding that
it was the nation's God-given destiny to expand from the east coast to
the west coast, and perhaps even to the southern end of Mexico. In
England another movement began that would later blend well with the
Manifest Destiny ideas held by some in the United States. This
religious movement was nationalistic, assigning religious worth more to
race than to righteousness.

The movement, Anglo-Israelism, began in 1870. It was founded by the
Rev. John Wilson, a nonconformist minister who expounded the idea that
the Anglo-Saxons were the supposed ten lost tribes of Israel. Believing
the nations of western Europe and the United States to be God's chosen
people, they
expected them to receive all the promises God gave to Israel in the Old
Testament.

Mr. Edward Hine brought the Anglo-Israelism movement to the United
States in 1870, the same year the movement began in England. His
efforts were mostly unfruitful, but his book, Identification of the
British Nation with Lost
Israel, is still used by adherents of Identity in the United States.
Hine's book was first among a spate of Anglo-Israel literature
published in the U. S. -- including a periodical published by Yale
Professor Charles A. L. Totten called, Our Race, Its Origins and Its
Destiny.[11] Today, with few exceptions (the Worldwide Church of God
being one), most adherents of Anglo-Israelism are in the Identity
movement.

                                      The Turn toward Violence

Extreme racism entered Anglo-Israelism because some of its most
prominent adherents were also connected to the Ku Klux Klan, and the
Klan in turn had become interested in the Nazis. The KKK was born,
without overt racist
intentions, in 1867. Thomas F. Gossett, author of Race: The History of
an Idea in America, notes that "the Klan originated as a lark among
young men in southern Tennessee who -- so the story goes -- chose this
method of visiting
their sweethearts attired in their version of the costume of Knights of
old and discovered accidentally that they were terrifying the
Negroes."[12] The Klan grew in its attempt to control black people
during the Reconstruction period.
The methods included "assassination, whipping, tarring and
feathering."[13] The Klan during the 1920s added the Jew and Catholic
to their list of enemies in an attempt to attract more members. By 1923
membership had reached between three and six million people. Decline
came with the depression of the 1930s and also with the Ku Klux Klan's
overtures to the American arm of the Nazi party before the Second World
War.[14]

The merging of Klan and Nazi extremism into the Anglo-Israelism
movement -- which then produced the Identity movement -- can largely be
traced to one man: Wesley Swift. However, it was not Swift but Howard
B. Rand (whose
writings are published by Destiny Publishers) who first coined the term
Identity. According to James Coates, Rand's intention was "to describe
Hine's concept of Anglo-Israelism, in which Jesus was not a Jew of the
tribe of Judah but an Aryan of the ten lost tribes of Israel and an
ancestor of the present British, Germanic and Scandinavian people."[15]

Wesley Swift was a prolific speaker and his tapes and written messages
are frequently used by Identity speakers. His connections to the Nazism
of Hitler's Germany are unquestionable. Swift was at one time both a
friend and advance man for Gerald L. K. Smith, a racist whose radical
career began when
he joined the "Silver Shirts," an American Nazi group formed by Willam
Pelley. James Ridgeway, author of Blood in the Face (a "who's-who of
hate"), notes
that "with Pelley as their 'Chief,' the Silver Shirts openly supported
Hitler, cooperated with the pro-Nazi German-American Bund, and embarked
on a program of vicious anti-Semitism."[16]

Swift was also a member of the Ku Klux Klan when he founded the
Identity Church of Jesus Christ Christian in 1946. Richard Butler, who
was led into the Identity movement by Wesley Swift, inherited Swift's
church and founded an
Identity compound called the Aryan Nations, located near Hayden Lake,
Idaho. Butler is an advocate of Nazism, and his yearly Aryan Nations
meetings attract Klan members, Nazi groups, and skinheads. Some
Identity teachers,
although racist, reject Nazism in name, attributing its cause to the
Jews. This trend has started a new controversy within the ranks of
Identity. The Identity groups who reject Nazism also do so because they
are perceptive enough to recognize Nazism's ingrained hatred of true
Christianity.

                                  IDENTITY'S SPIRITUAL HISTORY

The list of spiritual influences touching Identity resembles a
religious vanity fair. The Neo-Nazi movement embraces the zodiac of
astrology as easily as it does the teaching of the quietest mystic
Madame Guyon. Its teachers write
against the New Age movement while embracing occultist Edgar Cayce.
They also welcome the deliverance ministries (those ministries that
specialize in the controversial practice of casting demons out of
Christians) while
embracing the world of the occult.

                                          Occult Influence

Some of the groups that reject Nazism seem to feature less occult
teaching within their published material. However, except for racist
literature, occult teachings have probably had the greatest influence
on most Identity groups and
individuals. This may have partly developed from prewar occultic German
groups that were also anti-Semitic. German cults such as the Alder and
Falken and the Geusen worshiped the sun. And one influence on Hitler
was a group whose  emphasis on German nationality was connected to
their interest in the Druids -- an ancient pagan people many Identity
groups also embrace.[17]

Wesley Swift used occult legends as "truths" in his sermons. His
bizarre teachings included stories about Atlantis and Lemuria,
fictional civilizations included in most occult philosophy. Identity
teachers of today such as Pastor Arnold Murray maintain that the great
Pyramid was built by the Israelites and is a second revelation of God.
The idea that the measurements of the pyramid are encoded with a
revealed message is occultic, since the message is both supernaturally
given and esoteric, known only by those initiated into
that knowledge. Identity also embraces astrology and occultic tales of
Jesus visiting Britain.

                                  Other Streams of Religious Influence

Because many Identity adherents are people with a history of looking
for "new truths," they often come to Identity from other religious
movements, bringing some of their unique doctrines with them. Thus the
teachings of several
smaller religious groups have been added to the racist teachings of
Identity. These include the Sacred Name movement (using only Yahweh for
God and Yehoshua or some equivalent for Jesus); Jesus Only teaching
(the belief that there are not three persons in the Godhead, only three
offices); and the fringe teachings of the "manifest sons of God" (the
expectation that an elite group of the church will deliver creation,
overcome death, and help God bring in the kingdom). A few people came
out of the restoration and charismatic movements and added their unique
doctrines to Identity. The restoration movement teaches that God is
restoring lost doctrines to the church. Utilizing this framework, the
Identity teachers include Identity as one of the lost doctrines. (It is
important to point out that although Identity teachers variously link
Identity to the above movements and teachings, properly speaking these
movements have nothing to do with Identity.)

                               THE BONDING LINK OF CONSPIRACY

The Identity stand against the Jews as a people without value who are
enemies of the white race aligns the movement with other groups that
feed constantly on conspiracy theories, including ones that are Nazi
without teaching Anglo-Israelism. This taste for anti-Semitism is most
responsible for
the intermingling of Identity, Neo-Nazi, and other racist groups.
Different groups will often use the same speakers at their various
churches and urvivalist camps. And individual members of different
groups will order the same books from racist publishers.

For instance, many Identity groups offer books by E. Raymond Capt and
also use him as a speaker, since his specialty is supposedly
archaeology and history. Capt's writing includes such books as
Stonehenge and Druidism and The Traditions of Glastonbury: The Silent
Years of Jesus between 12 and 30. Another speaker used by most groups
is Lt. Col. Jack Mohr, whose specialty is anti-Communism. Mohr offers
such tapes as "Background to Betrayal: How
America Has Been Betrayed by Zionists Both Jewish and Christian." Many
racist groups, including Identity groups, sell or refer to the book,
Protocols of the Elders of Zion. This fraudulent book is supposedly a
document of conspiracy by Jewish leaders to take over the world.

Most conspiracy theories have developed from a particular fear -- and
the need to master that fear, by identifying a cause and then
supposedly gaining control of the situation. For instance, the cause of
the Black Plague in the Middle
Ages was attributed to the Jew. The solution espoused was to kill or
remove the Jews. Then the plague would supposedly end. The disastrous
condition of Germany after the First World War was attributed to the
Jew by some fearful Germans. Eventually their evil solution brought
about the Holocaust. And while the John Birch Society changed most of
the leading players in their conspiracy theory to what they call the
"insiders" rather than Jews, many others still see the Jew as the
monster controlling world events. For these anti-Semites the Jew is
often referred to as the "International Banker."

All of these groups together, both Identity and non-Identity white
supremacist, hold a dangerous sociopolitical view. Their mutual
solution to this supposed "Jewish control" is a race war. This war is
considered by many Identity
teachers to be the last great battle, Armageddon.

According to these teachers, at the head of this conspiracy that leads
to the final battle is ZOG: Zionist Occupation Government. Zionist
Occupation Government simply means to Identity adherents that the
Jewish conspiracy has
taken over the government of the United States. Since they also believe
that Jewish leaders are using other races to destroy the white
racemism. They appeal to other conservatives concerning such issues as
AIDS, abortion, and prison reform. This is where some Christians have
been pulled into the circle of Identity.

Many Christians find they are facing a bewildering morass of social
problems from Identity's blatant racism nonetheless allow Identity's
attitudes and world view -- including conspiracy theories -- to touch
the core of their faith. Turning to ideas, news sources, and leaders
who lack an understanding of the true gospel, these Ce able to divorce
the Jewish foundation of Christianity by simply disconnecting
Christianity from both the Old Testament and Paul. Most of the "German
Christians" -- those loyal to Hitler -- based their religious views on
a kind of nationalistic nonsectarian ethic.

Franklin Littell, Professor of Religion at Temple University, points
out that this German understanding of Christianity was not unlike John
Birch Society founder Robert Welch's "ecstatic affirmation of
non-sectarian religion," found in Welch's The Blue Book. Littell
writes: "The 'German Christians' were at least logical enough to press
the religion of the ethnic base, infused with spirituality, to its
logical conclusion: antisemitism."[19] The point is:
without a biblical basis, without Jesus Christ as Lord, any religion,
even one named Christian -- especially one named Christian, can produce
gross evil.

Although the religious teachers of "Christian Identity" do not reject
the Old Testament or Paul, they distort and twist Scripture until
little is left of God's revelation of good news. The Identity teachers'
conclusion that the British, Scandinavian, and Germanic peoples are the
lost tribes of Israel is a
case in point. None of the tribes of Israel have been lost. While many
of the northern tribes of Israel -- carried into exile by Assyria --
intermarried with the peoples they lived among, there is no biblical
reference that would encourage this teaching of lost tribes.

Christ's statement that He "was sent only to the lost sheep of the
house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24) is not a reference to tribes that had
physically disappeared, but to a people who were lost in sin. Earlier
in the text Jesus had sent His twelve disciples "to the lost sheep of
the house of Israel" (Matt.
10:6), and the disciples did not need to search for the people they
were sent to help. After the captivity of the Northern Kingdom of
Israel and the Babylonian captivity of the Southern Kingdom of Judah,
all twelve tribes -- whether living outside of the homeland or within
the homeland -- were referred to as both Jews and Israel. Both the Book
of Ezra and the Book of Nehemiah, books about the return of God's
people to Jerusalem after their captivity, use the two terms, Jews and
Israel, to refer to the same people (e.g., Ezra 2:26; 4:12; Neh. 1:6;
4:1-2).

Paul refers to himself as both a Jew and an Israelite. Writing of God's
enduring of the "vessels of wrath" for the sake of those He would show
mercy to, he notes: "And He did so in order that He might make known
the richesus
explained to the Samaritan woman that "we worship that which we know,
for salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), not only calling Himself a
Jew but pointing her toward the Jewish people, whom God had chosen to
bless the world
through the promised Mes to their common humanity as creations of the
true
God when he stated: "And He made from one, every nation of mankind to
live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed
times, and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek
God, if perhaps they
might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of
us" (Acts 17:26-27). Genesis 10:1-32 names most of the nations that
developed from the three sons of Noah. Derek Kidner, author of Genesis
in the Tyndale Old
Testament Commentaries, writes: "Not every nation known to the Old
Testament is enrolled here, but enough are present to make the point
that mankind is one, for all its diversity, under the one creator.
Possibly the seventy names (Lxx 72) influenced our Lord's choice of
this apparently symbolic number of emissaries in Luke 10:1."[21]

Jesus Christ is God's answer to racism. Paul admonishes the Galatians
that they are to make no distinctions among those belonging to Christ;
they are to be as one: "For all of you who were baptized into Christ
have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female;
for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:27-28). In the Book of
Revelation, where Christ is pictured as both "the Lion that is from the
tribe of Judah" and "a Lamb standing, as if slain," the 24 Elders sing
to His glory: "For Thou wast slain, and didst purchase for God with Thy
blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. And thou
hast made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will
reign upon the earth" (Rev. 5:9-10).

The church, those redeemed not by race but by the blood of Christ the
Lamb, understand Christ as both lion and lamb, both sacrifice and King.
Wilhelm Niemoller, one of the members of the Confessing Church in
Germany during the
time of Hitler, wrote of what it meant to confess Christ as the only
Lord under that regime: "One of my friends concluded a sermon of his in
1934 or 1935 by saying: 'O Lord, Thou alone art our hope, apart from
Thee, I know none!' He was arrested, put on trial, and later released.
The enemies that listened to him had noticed that the Third Reich was
put in a difficult position wherever the 'One Word of God' made its
appearance."[22] The Neo-Nazi groups and those who feed on their hate
literature are simply a part of the rising paganism in America. They
are also an extreme example of groups who like to use Christian
terminology while laying foundations on extrabiblical revelation. The
need for present security, elitism, power, and a revelation not
anchored in Christ and the Word of God is the mark of anti-Christian
religion.

The believer's only haven is Christ. This means there is no present
worldly security -- the believer is not an elite person. Instead,
members of Christ's church are often the ones hated and despised by the
nations. The only power
given is that which Christ gives, so that His followers may be able to
faithfully love, serve, and suffer in this present world. Finally, the
believer finds racial pride to be sin, because the only exaltation a
Christian knows is God's unmerited grace, freely offered to all in
Jesus Christ.

        Previously the director of Apologetics Resource Center,
Sacramento, California, Viola Larson is a graduate student in history
at California State University, Sacramento.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------                                             NOTES

1. John E. Yang, "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho," Sacramento Bee, 1
September 1992, part A.
2. "U.S. Hate Groups Spread Their Venom to Germany," Sacramento Bee,
14 August 1992, part A.
3. Ibid.
4. Arnold Murray, Grace: Baptism (cassette #406) (Gravette,
AR:Shepherd's Chapel, n.d.).
5. Jack Mohr, "Seed of Satan: Literal or Figurative?" (Louis, MI:
n.p., n.d.) 26.
6. Pete Peters, Inter-Racial Marriage, part l (cassette 170) (La
Porte, CO: Scriptures for America, n.d.).
7. Wesley Swift, Dwellers in the Deep (cassette 350) (Waynesville, NC:
New Beginnings, 1964).
8. Federick Haberman, Tracing Our Ancestors (n.p., n.d.), 10. Reference
is made within the book to Hitler in Germany, dating the book sometime
before World War II.
9. Murray, Grace: Baptism.
10. Thomas F. Gossett, Race: The History of an Idea in America (New
York: Schocken Books, 1965), 71.
11. James Coates (New York: Hill and Wang, Farrar, Straus, and Giroux,
1987), 181; Gossett, 192.  [Back] 12. Gossett, 259-60.
13. Ibid., 260.
14. Coates, 33-36.
15. Ibid., 93.
16. James Ridgeway, Blood in the Face: The Ku Klux Klan, Aryan Nations,
Skinheads, and the Rise of a New White Culture(New York: Thunder's
Mouth Press, 1990), 45.
17. George L. Mosse, The Crisis of German Ideology: Intellectual
Origins of the Third Reich (New York: Schocken Books, 1981), 75, 116,
277.
18. Pete Peters, A Biblical Look at the Farm Problems (cassette 161)
(La Porte, CO: Scriptures for America, n.d.).
19. Frank H. Littell, "Church Struggle and the Holocaust," in The
German Church Struggle and the Holocaust, ed. Frank H. Littell and
Hubert G. Locke (Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 1974), 25-26.

Copyright 1993 by the Christian Research Institute.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Münch-JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIAR-
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:37:18 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Posted for the edification of Herb Gorman.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIAR

Dr. Münch, 87, "gave" a testimony to Bruno Schirra, an "independent"
journalist; it was published in Der Spiegel  on Sept. 26, 1998. He has been
a SS physician in Auschwitz in 1943 and after. The greatest suspicion
should be exercised before accepting this statement, mostly because the son
of the old man wrote to the weekly to express his amazement. He said the
mind of his father has been "weakened" since two years. He thinks his
father's sentences, over the phone, have been "either misunterstood or
misinterpreted".
We have now a declaration he signed in 1995, presumably at a time his mind
was not yet too much threatened by senility. Here is the affidavit he gave
to a to Mrs Eva Mozes Kor in January 1995 in Auschwitz:

I, Dr. Hans Münch hereby attest that, as an SS physician on duty in
Auschwitz in 1944, I witnessed the selection process of those who were to
live and those who were to die. Other SS physicians on duty in the camps
made selections at the platform where the transports arrived.  They also
made selections in the barracks. I was exempt from performing selections
because I had refused to do so.
I further attest that I saw thousands of people gassed here at Auschwitz.
Children, old people, the sick and those unable to work were sent to the
gas chambers. These were innocent human beings: Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals,
Hitler's political opponents -- anyone who did not fit Hitler's idea of a
pure Aryan race.
I am signing this paper of my own free will to help document the cruel
intolerance of my fellow SS.
I, a former SS physician, witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated
exhaust vents from outside the gas chamber. Zyklon B began to work as soon
as it was released from the canisters. The effects of the gas were observed
through a peephole by an assigned doctor or the SS officer on duty. After
three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened
as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned. This is the nightmare
I continue to live with fifty years  later.
I am so sorry that in some way I was part of it. Under the prevailing
circumstances I did the best I could to save as many lives as possible.
Joining the SS was a mistake. I was young. I was an opportunist. And once I
joined, there was no way out.
Dr. Hans Münch
January 27, 1995, Auschwitz

Assuming the author of the statement to be healthy at the time, we can
easily identify a series of lies. We use here the word "lies" on purpose.
As it will be shown, it is not possible that certain statements which are
contrary to the truth were made by accident.
As a physician, he "witnessed" the "selection" at the platform (the "Ramp")
but did not take part in them:
Very unlikely. The platform was outside of the main camps. You could not be
there and "witness" if you had no official business there. If he did not
participate in the "selection" (which, in itself, is a cause for
condemnation in German courts), then he had no business being there and he
describes the scene from reading it in books written after the war. This
cannot be believed. Either he was ordered to participate in "special
treatments" leading to the death of inmates and he is lying to hide his
guilt, or he never received such an order, and he lies about his alleged
"resistance". In his Spiegel interview, he says he worked with Dr. Mengele,
"a charming man", and that he just "refused" to do what  he had been told
to do. But at the same time he says that he injected pus in prisoners'
gums, to experiment on "human material". If Mengele was only a tiny
fraction of the evil man recounted by the orthodox histories of the camp,
Dr. Münch would not be in a position to tell us his story now. Rebellion in
the SS carried a heavy sentence. Or Dr. Mengele was not the man described
in late stories and the reason why Dr. Münch did not participate in an
extermination programs was that there was no such program in Auschwitz at
the time. He adds that once he had joined the SS, he could not quit, which
is quite untrue.

He saw thousands of people being "gassed" in Auschwitz. He says: "anyone
who did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure Aryan race". This statement is
totally absurd. Tens of millions of people who "did not fit Hitler's idea
of a pure Aryan race" did survive the Nazi period, including hundreds of
thousands in the camps. Dr. Münch betrays here a will to conform to the
ideological needs of the present state in Germany.
He "witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated exhaust vents "from
outside the gas chamber". The trouble is that there is no hole on the
ceiling, as can be verified today by inspecting the ruins of the gas
chambers, still visible in Auschwitz concentration camp. Dr. Faurisson has
called the world's attention to this FACT: there are no holes in the
concrete slab which was the ceiling. Now the handful of testimonies
recognized in the trials all mention or suppose the existence of holes to
"introduce" the poison into the "chambers". But the physical evidence shows
that these stories are not fitting with reality. The description given by
Dr. Münch is a physical impossibility. But it can be found in a number of
books and "testimonies" of other liars, like Dr. Vrba, Dr. Niyszli and such
like. These testimonies must now be either amended -- and a new explanation
of the technique of poisoning should be quickly discovered -- or abandoned,
with the story of the gassings itself.
 But the most enormous lie is in the following sentence: "After three to
five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign
that the corpses were cleared to be burned". All this is utterly
impossible, contradicts the laws of physics and chemistry and is a pure
invention. This man is just quoting worn out literary precedents. He is not
as creative and inventive as Wilkomisrki.
Maybe the most disgusting is his assertion, without qualification, that he
contributed to save as many lives as he could. If anyone can believe this,
then this would open a new window in the area of Jewish gullibility, which,
we have reckoned already, is limitless when the magic word "Holocaust" is
pronounced.
In another statement reproduced on the CANDLES website, he declared: "I had
to watch the operation of the gas chambers and then, when the bodies were
dead, I had to sign the death certificates."
Now, here again, the man is playing on several sides of the reality. It is
true that the death of one inmate triggered a flow of papers. We know from
former Polish members of the camp administration that twenty-one signatures
were required for an ordinary death (33 in case of unnatural death). And
Münch comments on the general bureaucracy: "You had to sign a lot: that was
top secret. That was just a formality." But the catch is in the official
history: there were no death documents for those allegedly "gassed". The
official history mentions days when 2000 people were allegedly gassed. If
we stick to that history, Münch is a liar when he says he signed for the
gassed dead bodies. And if we get away from the official history, Münch is
a liar because there was no gassing. Which lie is the most profitable in
Germany today?
Münch proudly proclaimed that "...a string of my prisoners spoke up for
me..." at his 1947 trial in Poland, where he was acquitted.
>From another message by the same source (Witte): "Since 1943 Dr. Münch was
occupied in the "Hygienisch-Bakteriologische Untersuchungsstelle der
Waffen-SS und Polizei Südost" in Auschwitz-Rajsko.
The problem is that Rajsko is an external subcamp, devoted to agricultural
research and specially the development of plants that could be used in the
production of naturel rubber (Ersatzgummi). Some scholars have insisted
that revisionist author Thies Christophersen, who had been at Rajsko, was
disqualified because being there precluded any possibility to observe what
was happening in the Stammlager or Birkenau. This should then be extended
to Dr. Münch who was apparently in the same situation.
"According to testimonies of survivors, who had been working with him in
the "Rajsko Laboratory", for the Krakowian Auschwitz Trial of 1947 he
however refused taking part in selections on the ramp and attending
gassings any longer so that consequently on his own initiative he needn't
in future either. Generally speaking his attitude and behavior towards
prisoners was judged very positively by these survivors in 1947."
"What makes it difficult to bring him to court once again ( ne bis in idem
), is the fact that he was the only one of 40 Auschwitz SS-defendants in
Crakow who was acquitted by Court and set free because of testimonies in
his favour by former prisoners. It is little known that after the war he
wrote a basic study  on "Hunger and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz" for
the Polish Public Prosecutor, later published by the Auschwitz
International Committee."  (Witte)
This shows that Dr. Münch was not a revolted guy but rather an obedient
civil servant who dutifully collaborated with Polish authorities when
requested to.

The case of the lady who "whitewashed" him again is also interesting.  Her
name  is Eva Moses Kor She is the founder of C.A.N.D.L.E.S., a Holocaust
museum.  She participated in the Dec. 96
USHMM "Doctor's Trial Conference". Whatever that is.
Here is the report of someone who met her:
"Eva Moses Kor had compelling reasons to do extend the forgiveness. She was
trying to get ex-SS men or anybody else with knowledge of what she and
other twins were injected with to come forth with the information. Her
sister (her twin sister also subjected to Mengele) was at the time
suffering with or had died from bladder cancer. The sister's doctor said
that tests detected a strange substance present in her body, but the doctor
could not identify it. Moses Kor and her sister felt certain that the
mystery substance was the cause of the bladder cancer and that the
substance entered the sister's body via an SS syringe at Auschwitz."
[Miriam Mozes died in 1993, 48 years after she had left the camp.] Another
case of extravagant gullibility! How can you believe you get a cancer 48
years after an injection? How mad are these people?
But there is more to it. The story of the twins, whatever its kernel of
truth, has developped into a huge myth of incontrolable proportions. This
is what the commentator is adding:
"The US government was in possession of much unreleased information seized
from the SS, but the IMT prosecutors did not see as necessary for their
specifics of 1946. A small group of scholars were also allowed to sort
though the materials to find what *they* considered relevant. But of the
total material, they considered only a small amount to be *relevant.* (Our
emplasis) ... But the twin survivors felt that the probability was high
that such information was contained within. They petitioned and petitioned
the US government all to no avail. It was only after much petitioning that
Eva Moses Kor issued her forgiveness. It was a last ditch effort to try to
get somebody with knowledge to come forth. And this signing took place as
part of a normal survivors's conference at Auschwitz. So press was already
there. And any extra publicity Moses Kor and Muench might have made would
have been designed to try to get the word to as many ex-SS and their
families as possible so that whomever among them has knowledge of what the
twins were exposed to will learn of the amnesty." (Witte)
Now we have the reason of all this fuss. Some old ladie, afraid of dying,
imagines that, ages ago, she and her sister have received a mysterious
substance from the evil doctors down there in A. This looks like a story
for "X-files". The truth is elsewhere. Now they start criticizing the
Nuremberg highly selective way of collecting documents (a possibility which
was denied to the defense counsels). Now they realize that Nuremberg itself
is a heavily biased approach of history, done in the name of immediate
political and military needs, including the consolidation of Soviet
occupation of half Europe.
Eva Mozes was born in a Rumanian village in 1934. Same region as arch-liar
Elie Wiesel. From Auschwitz she returned, with her twin sister, to Rumania,
and then to Israel (1950-1960). Joined the army there. Later married and
settled in Indiana, USA. See her biography on her website. Another case of
delusion. Here is the description of what was done to the twins, culled
from her autobiography and reproduced on the Candles Website: "Three times
a week we were marched to Auschwitz to a big brick building, sort of like a
big gymnasium. They would keep us there for about six or eight hours at a
time -- most of the days. [...] We would have to sit naked in the large
room where we first entered, and people in white jackets would observe us
and write down notes. They also would study every part of our bodies. They
would photograph, measure our heads and arms and bodies, and compare the
measurements of one twin to another. The process seemed to go on and on."
(Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor).  The laboratory experiments were described by
Kor as follows: "Most of the time, they would take blood from one arm, and
they gave us shots in the other." (Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor).

We learn that "Hans Münch, 87, a retired German physician who admits to
helping Nazi doctor Joseph Mengele carry out medical experiments on
concentration camp inmates is again under investigation." As Le Monde
observed, "having been acquitted in Cracow for his part in the medical
experiments, he could be sued for his taking part (contested) to the
"selections" of Jews, or, simply, for incitement to racial hatred because
of his statements in der Spiegel". The German "journalist" has planted in
Münch's mouth some expletives about the "Eastern Jews" and their servility.
As one H-Holocaust police-minded "historian" said: "A friend of mine in
Germany has pointed out that the Frankfurt/Main prosecutor's office
"Staatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt/Main, Konrad-Adenauer-Str. 20, D-60313,
Frankfurt/Main, Germany" would be happy to receive information which would
assist with the current investigation. Cops, cops, all cops... With whom
else could we discuss?
+++++++++++++++
Sources:
* Dr. Hans Münch interview in Der Spiegel, 26 September 1998;
* Dirk Münch' letter in Der Spiegel, 10 October 1998;
* Dr. Münch's statement: posted on H-Holocaust by Peter Witte
 on 22 and 23 Oct. 1998;
* Info on Mrs Kor by Hosea Azriel , 19 October 1998.
* On the paper flow after the death of inmates in Auschwitz, see Dr.
Tadeusz Paczula"s contribution to vol. II (1, p. 38-73) of Anthologie, ed.
by Jerzy Rawicz, Przeglad Lekarki Auschwitz (International Committee),
1969. This is known as "The Blue Collection". Dr. Paczula was for a time in
charge of Totenbücher, where deaths were registered;
* The stories of Dr. Münch and Eva Kor as told -- in the style of fairy
tales -- on the Website CANDLES, (The name is an acronym for Children of
Auschwitz Nazi Deadly Lab Experiment Survivors), founded by Eva Mozes Kor,
at . She is based in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Probably a very boring place. It is a part of the booming US
Shoah-business; her biography is in a file called "eva". She sells a
biography, Echoes from Auschwitz. She can be reached at ;
* The  Associated Press reports on 14 Oct the investigation of Dr. Münch.
* Dr. Hans Münch, "Glod i czas przezycia w obozie oswiecimskim", (Hunger
and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz) in Przeglad Lekarski, 1967, Vol.1, p.
79-88.
* On twins see "twin", a file on Candles website. Kor quotes the following
works:
-- Lifton, Robert Jay. The Nazi Doctors. The United States: Basic Books. 1986.
-- Nyiszli., Dr. Miklos. Auschwitz: A Doctor's Story of Survival. New York:
Fawcett Crest. 1960. [A well known  forgery]
-- Posner, Gerald L. and John Ware. Mengele. The Complete Story. New York:
Dell Publishing. 1986.
-- Ramati, Alexander. And the Violins Stopped Playing.
* Arnaud Leparmentier, "Les souvenirs sans remords du dernier médecin nazi
d'Auschwitz", Le Monde , 3 October 1998, p. 1.

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Does the Jewish God have a name? Yes, it is Satan
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:08:14 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
         What is the name of your God? Have not your people had many gods and
graven images? You dare tell me what my God may think of me? You dare Judge
me and you are a Jew? A Jew will never have any of the gifts of the spirit
and the remarkable thing is,  you attempt to have the Word of Knowledge and
The Word of Wisdom yet you lie and blaspheme one of God's chosen. I know the
name of God and his name is Jesus. Under no other name can salvation be found
than the name of Jesus. To Hate the actions of the Jew, to hate their
treacherous activity, and their blasphemous Talmud is the word of the true
living God.
        In John 1:1 it says," In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was
with  God, and the Word was  God. John 1:14 And the word was made flesh, and
dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten
of the Father) full of grace and truth and his name is JESUS.
            In those two scriptures alone we see that God was manifested in
the flesh, he dwelt among us, and he was FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH. This
doesn't describe the Jewish God. We call the Jewish god "Satan" full of
indignation and lies.
        With what we have exposed in the form of postings in this group is
the fact  that the Talmud is an evil and anti-Christian book. Now I think
that your babbling and repetitious name calling, and the false accusations is
typical of a squirrelly individual when no one will listen to his repetitive
ignorance.
With the Love of Christ in my heart and soul,
Michael Snead
14/88


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Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing At Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:10:42 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

All fabricated lies of the haters of Jesus Christ and the children of Satan.
Michael Snead
14/88

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing At Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:35:56 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=893

> All fabricated lies of the haters of Jesus Christ and the children of
Satan.

Hehehehe. Mindless denial from a fool who knows no other way to handle
real evidence.

Philip Mathews

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:37:29 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    In the story about Randy Weaver the Government was found neglectful and
had to pay over 3 million dollars. There is a case pending on whether the
agent, who shot Weavers wife in the head while she held their infant
daughter, will stand trial for murder.  Weaver sold one shotgun to a criminal
who was doing dirty work for the Government, The snake (probably a Jew) kept
on bugging Randy about selling him the gun, this went on for over six months
before Randy Weaver finally did sell the shot gun. It was proven in court
that it was entrapment and the charges were dropped. It also is not illegal
to have 100 handguns, 100 shotguns, and 100 rifles. All I know is Randy
didn't have very many weapons.
        Another thing...At least Randy weaver is a member of some religious
movement and not a cult that still sacrifices Goyim Children.
Michael Snead
14/88

In a message dated 9/7/99 4:55:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho." The story was
 about Randy Weaver, a man indicted for selling two sawed-off
 shotguns to undercover federal agents. During the FBI's attempt
 to force Weaver to leave his Idaho home and return to court, three
 people were killed: a federal agent and Weaver's wife and son. When
 the standoff was over, 15 handguns, shotguns, and rifles were collected
 from his cabin.[1] Randy Weaver is a member of a religious movement  >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing At Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:52:05 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Philip,
        How can you call information from a group that is known for their
lack of objectivity "real evidence"?  HA HA HA HA HA   As far as the
"mindless" comment...all in this group knows who is a non compos mentis and a
true aversionist which you master quite well....OOP a compliment think.
   NOT!!!
Michael Snead
14/88

In a message dated 9/7/99 9:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, philnancy@aol.com
writes:

<< Hehehehe. Mindless denial from a fool who knows no other way to handle
 real evidence.

 Philip Mathews >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Münch-JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIA
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:08:20 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Kadach wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:

original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=891
> Posted for the edification of Herb Gorman.

Why Mr. Kadach thought anyone could be edified by this collection of
unsupported lies and distortions is anyones guess.

>
>
> JUST ANOTHER AUSCHWITZ LIAR
>
> Dr. Münch, 87, "gave" a testimony to Bruno Schirra, an "independent"
> journalist; it was published in Der Spiegel  on Sept. 26, 1998. He
has been
> a SS physician in Auschwitz in 1943 and after. The greatest suspicion
> should be exercised before accepting this statement, mostly because
the son
> of the old man wrote to the weekly to express his amazement. He said
the
> mind of his father has been "weakened" since two years. He thinks his
> father's sentences, over the phone, have been "either misunterstood or
> misinterpreted".
> We have now a declaration he signed in 1995, presumably at a time his
mind
> was not yet too much threatened by senility. Here is the affidavit he
gave
> to a to Mrs Eva Mozes Kor in January 1995 in Auschwitz:
>
> I, Dr. Hans Münch hereby attest that, as an SS physician on duty in
> Auschwitz in 1944, I witnessed the selection process of those who
were to
> live and those who were to die. Other SS physicians on duty in the
camps
> made selections at the platform where the transports arrived.  They
also
> made selections in the barracks. I was exempt from performing
selections
> because I had refused to do so.
> I further attest that I saw thousands of people gassed here at
Auschwitz.
> Children, old people, the sick and those unable to work were sent to
the
> gas chambers. These were innocent human beings: Jews, Gypsies,
homosexuals,
> Hitler's political opponents -- anyone who did not fit Hitler's idea
of a
> pure Aryan race.
> I am signing this paper of my own free will to help document the cruel
> intolerance of my fellow SS.
> I, a former SS physician, witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into
simulated
> exhaust vents from outside the gas chamber. Zyklon B began to work as
soon
> as it was released from the canisters. The effects of the gas were
observed
> through a peephole by an assigned doctor or the SS officer on duty.
After
> three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were
opened
> as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned. This is the
nightmare
> I continue to live with fifty years  later.
> I am so sorry that in some way I was part of it. Under the prevailing
> circumstances I did the best I could to save as many lives as
possible.
> Joining the SS was a mistake. I was young. I was an opportunist. And
once I
> joined, there was no way out.
> Dr. Hans Münch
> January 27, 1995, Auschwitz
>
> Assuming the author of the statement to be healthy at the time, we can
> easily identify a series of lies. We use here the word "lies" on
purpose.
> As it will be shown, it is not possible that certain statements which
are
> contrary to the truth were made by accident.
> As a physician, he "witnessed" the "selection" at the platform (the
"Ramp")
> but did not take part in them:
> Very unlikely. The platform was outside of the main camps. You could
not be
> there and "witness" if you had no official business there. If he did
not
> participate in the "selection" (which, in itself, is a cause for
> condemnation in German courts), then he had no business being there
and he
> describes the scene from reading it in books written after the war.
This
> cannot be believed

Utter nonsense. The contention that Dr. Munch couldn't be there is the
author's assertion, unsupported by anything.

. Either he was ordered to participate in "special
> treatments" leading to the death of inmates and he is lying to hide
his
> guilt, or he never received such an order, and he lies about his
alleged
> "resistance".

He was eventually ordered and refused.  The author again speculates
widely without offering anything to support it.

 In his Spiegel interview, he says he worked with Dr. Mengele,
> "a charming man", and that he just "refused" to do what  he had been
told
> to do. But at the same time he says that he injected pus in prisoners'
> gums, to experiment on "human material". If Mengele was only a tiny
> fraction of the evil man recounted by the orthodox histories of the
camp,
> Dr. Münch would not be in a position to tell us his story now.
Rebellion in
> the SS carried a heavy sentence

More nonsense. Dr. Munch's reported to someone outside the camp, and
this gave him more leeway than most.

. Or Dr. Mengele was not the man described
> in late stories and the reason why Dr. Münch did not participate in an
> extermination programs was that there was no such program in
Auschwitz at
> the time.

The author presumably thinks making this unconnected conclusion based
on a false assumption is profound.  Dozens of Nazis testified to the
extermination program at Auschwitz.

. He adds that once he had joined the SS, he could not quit, which
> is quite untrue.

More unsupported conjecture.

>
> He saw thousands of people being "gassed" in Auschwitz. He says:
"anyone
> who did not fit Hitler's idea of a pure Aryan race". This statement is
> totally absurd. Tens of millions of people who "did not fit Hitler's
idea
> of a pure Aryan race" did survive the Nazi period, including hundreds
of
> thousands in the camps.

They killed as many as they could in the time they had. The racial
theories which served as the underpinnings to these actions is not
debatable.

> Dr. Münch betrays here a will to conform to the
> ideological needs of the present state in Germany.

Apparently any speculation is ok with the author.

> He "witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated exhaust vents
"from
> outside the gas chamber". The trouble is that there is no hole on the
> ceiling, as can be verified today by inspecting the ruins of the gas
> chambers, still visible in Auschwitz concentration camp. Dr.
Faurisson has
> called the world's attention to this FACT: there are no holes in the
> concrete slab which was the ceiling.

More nonsense. In the ruble of the dynamited gas chambers holes are
clearly visible. A series of these are scanned for viewing at the
Nizkor site.

 Now the handful of testimonies
> recognized in the trials all mention or suppose the existence of
holes to
> "introduce" the poison into the "chambers".

False. That was the method for some of the Auschwitz-Birkenau gas
chambers. Kremas IV and V were different. The author doesn't know what
he's talking about.

> But the physical evidence shows
> that these stories are not fitting with reality. The description
given by
> Dr. Münch is a physical impossibility. But it can be found in a
number of
> books and "testimonies" of other liars, like Dr. Vrba, Dr. Niyszli
and such
> like. These testimonies must now be either amended -- and a new
explanation
> of the technique of poisoning should be quickly discovered -- or
abandoned,
> with the story of the gassings itself.

All of this silliness based on the lie that the Krema ruins have no
holes.

>  But the most enormous lie is in the following sentence: "After three
to
> five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as
a sign
> that the corpses were cleared to be burned". All this is utterly
> impossible, contradicts the laws of physics and chemistry and is a
pure
> invention. This man is just quoting worn out literary precedents. He
is not
> as creative and inventive as Wilkomisrki.

More unsupported nonsense. What laws of physics and chemistry are
contradicted? Obviously the author has no idea, he's just making it up.

> Maybe the most disgusting is his assertion, without qualification,
that he
> contributed to save as many lives as he could. If anyone can believe
this,
> then this would open a new window in the area of Jewish gullibility,
which,
> we have reckoned already, is limitless when the magic word
"Holocaust" is
> pronounced.

More inane conjecture with not a scrap of evidence. Dr. Munch had
witness support for his claims in court. To rebut this the author has
nothing but his ingnorant assertion.

> In another statement reproduced on the CANDLES website, he declared:
"I had
> to watch the operation of the gas chambers and then, when the bodies
were
> dead, I had to sign the death certificates."
> Now, here again, the man is playing on several sides of the reality.
It is
> true that the death of one inmate triggered a flow of papers. We know
from
> former Polish members of the camp administration that twenty-one
signatures
> were required for an ordinary death (33 in case of unnatural death).
And
> Münch comments on the general bureaucracy: "You had to sign a lot:
that was
> top secret. That was just a formality." But the catch is in the
official
> history: there were no death documents for those allegedly "gassed".
The
> official history mentions days when 2000 people were allegedly
gassed. If
> we stick to that history, Münch is a liar when he says he signed for
the
> gassed dead bodies.

Except that the document reference on the website has not been
described in any way that would convince us it contains the words of
Dr. Munch.

 And if we get away from the official history, Münch is
> a liar because there was no gassing.

A statement of massive denial with not one jot of evidence. How typical.

> Which lie is the most profitable in
> Germany today?
> Münch proudly proclaimed that "...a string of my prisoners spoke up
for
> me..." at his 1947 trial in Poland, where he was acquitted.
> >From another message by the same source (Witte): "Since 1943 Dr.
Münch was
> occupied in the "Hygienisch-Bakteriologische Untersuchungsstelle der
> Waffen-SS und Polizei Südost" in Auschwitz-Rajsko.
> The problem is that Rajsko is an external subcamp, devoted to
agricultural
> research and specially the development of plants that could be used
in the
> production of naturel rubber (Ersatzgummi). Some scholars have
insisted
> that revisionist author Thies Christophersen, who had been at Rajsko,
was
> disqualified because being there precluded any possibility to observe
what
> was happening in the Stammlager or Birkenau. This should then be
extended
> to Dr. Münch who was apparently in the same situation.

The author makes no sense. Dr. Munch was at Auschwitz.

> "According to testimonies of survivors, who had been working with him
in
> the "Rajsko Laboratory", for the Krakowian Auschwitz Trial of 1947 he
> however refused taking part in selections on the ramp and attending
> gassings any longer so that consequently on his own initiative he
needn't
> in future either. Generally speaking his attitude and behavior towards
> prisoners was judged very positively by these survivors in 1947."
> "What makes it difficult to bring him to court once again ( ne bis in
idem
> ), is the fact that he was the only one of 40 Auschwitz SS-defendants
in
> Crakow who was acquitted by Court and set free because of testimonies
in
> his favour by former prisoners. It is little known that after the war
he
> wrote a basic study  on "Hunger and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz"
for
> the Polish Public Prosecutor, later published by the Auschwitz
> International Committee."  (Witte)
> This shows that Dr. Münch was not a revolted guy but rather an
obedient
> civil servant who dutifully collaborated with Polish authorities when
> requested to.

It shows no such thing. The evidence of his actions were presented and
court decisions were made. His testimony only corroborates that of
dozens of Nazis and many inmates.

>
> The case of the lady who "whitewashed" him again is also interesting.
 Her
> name  is Eva Moses Kor She is the founder of C.A.N.D.L.E.S., a
Holocaust
> museum.  She participated in the Dec.
96
> USHMM "Doctor's Trial Conference". Whatever that is.
> Here is the report of someone who met her:
> "Eva Moses Kor had compelling reasons to do extend the forgiveness.
She was
> trying to get ex-SS men or anybody else with knowledge of what she and
> other twins were injected with to come forth with the information. Her
> sister (her twin sister also subjected to Mengele) was at the time
> suffering with or had died from bladder cancer. The sister's doctor
said
> that tests detected a strange substance present in her body, but the
doctor
> could not identify it. Moses Kor and her sister felt certain that the
> mystery substance was the cause of the bladder cancer and that the
> substance entered the sister's body via an SS syringe at Auschwitz."
> [Miriam Mozes died in 1993, 48 years after she had left the camp.]
Another
> case of extravagant gullibility! How can you believe you get a cancer
48
> years after an injection? How mad are these people?

Nothing unusual about it at all. But of course this has nothing to do
with the authors thesis, which he has no doubt abandoned for nothing
important to say.

> But there is more to it. The story of the twins, whatever its kernel
of
> truth, has developped into a huge myth of incontrolable proportions.
This
> is what the commentator is adding:
> "The US government was in possession of much unreleased information
seized
> from the SS, but the IMT prosecutors did not see as necessary for
their
> specifics of 1946. A small group of scholars were also allowed to sort
> though the materials to find what *they* considered relevant. But of
the
> total material, they considered only a small amount to be *relevant.*
(Our
> emplasis) ... But the twin survivors felt that the probability was
high
> that such information was contained within. They petitioned and
petitioned
> the US government all to no avail. It was only after much petitioning
that
> Eva Moses Kor issued her forgiveness. It was a last ditch effort to
try to
> get somebody with knowledge to come forth. And this signing took
place as
> part of a normal survivors's conference at Auschwitz. So press was
already
> there. And any extra publicity Moses Kor and Muench might have made
would
> have been designed to try to get the word to as many ex-SS and their
> families as possible so that whomever among them has knowledge of
what the
> twins were exposed to will learn of the amnesty." (Witte)
> Now we have the reason of all this fuss. Some old ladie, afraid of
dying,
> imagines that, ages ago, she and her sister have received a mysterious
> substance from the evil doctors down there in A. This looks like a
story
> for "X-files". The truth is elsewhere. Now they start criticizing the
> Nuremberg highly selective way of collecting documents (a possibility
which
> was denied to the defense counsels).

The author, being rather dim has gone off on irrelevant tangents. His
statements about IMT are untrue and obviously irrelevant to Dr. Munch's
trial in Crakow. Just a mish mash of confused denier lies not wielded
very well by a moron.

> Now they realize that Nuremberg itself
> is a heavily biased approach of history, done in the name of immediate
> political and military needs, including the consolidation of Soviet
> occupation of half Europe.

No one realizes any such thing, and in any event the writing of history
is independent of the findings of Nuremberg.

> Eva Mozes was born in a Rumanian village in 1934. Same region as
arch-liar
> Elie Wiesel. From Auschwitz she returned, with her twin sister, to
Rumania,
> and then to Israel (1950-1960). Joined the army there. Later married
and
> settled in Indiana, USA. See her biography on her website. Another
case of
> delusion. Here is the description of what was done to the twins,
culled
> from her autobiography and reproduced on the Candles Website: "Three
times
> a week we were marched to Auschwitz to a big brick building, sort of
like a
> big gymnasium. They would keep us there for about six or eight hours
at a
> time -- most of the days. [...] We would have to sit naked in the
large
> room where we first entered, and people in white jackets would
observe us
> and write down notes. They also would study every part of our bodies.
They
> would photograph, measure our heads and arms and bodies, and compare
the
> measurements of one twin to another. The process seemed to go on and
on."
> (Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor).  The laboratory experiments were
described by
> Kor as follows: "Most of the time, they would take blood from one
arm, and
> they gave us shots in the other." (Echoes from Auschwitz, Kor).
>
> We learn that "Hans Münch, 87, a retired German physician who admits
to
> helping Nazi doctor Joseph Mengele carry out medical experiments on
> concentration camp inmates is again under investigation." As Le Monde
> observed, "having been acquitted in Cracow for his part in the medical
> experiments, he could be sued for his taking part (contested) to the
> "selections" of Jews, or, simply, for incitement to racial hatred
because
> of his statements in der Spiegel". The German "journalist" has
planted in
> Münch's mouth some expletives about the "Eastern Jews" and their
servility.

What is the evidence for this statement? Of course I forgot, the author
has no evidence.

> As one H-Holocaust police-minded "historian" said: "A friend of mine
in
> Germany has pointed out that the Frankfurt/Main prosecutor's office
> "Staatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt/Main, Konrad-Adenauer-Str. 20, D-60313,
> Frankfurt/Main, Germany" would be happy to receive information which
would
> assist with the current investigation. Cops, cops, all cops... With
whom
> else could we discuss?

Pretty pathetic performance all round. Certainly sufficient for Jew
haters like Eddie Kadach, who has never been much of a scholar and is
pretty much willing to post any drivel which smears Jews or attacks the
historical reality of the Holocaust. Thank god Eddie's on their side!

Philip Mathews

> +++++++++++++++
> Sources:
> * Dr. Hans Münch interview in Der Spiegel, 26 September 1998;
> * Dirk Münch' letter in Der Spiegel, 10 October 1998;
> * Dr. Münch's statement: posted on H-Holocaust by Peter Witte
>  on 22 and 23 Oct. 1998;
> * Info on Mrs Kor by Hosea Azriel , 19 October
1998.
> * On the paper flow after the death of inmates in Auschwitz, see Dr.
> Tadeusz Paczula"s contribution to vol. II (1, p. 38-73) of
Anthologie, ed.
> by Jerzy Rawicz, Przeglad Lekarki Auschwitz (International Committee),
> 1969. This is known as "The Blue Collection". Dr. Paczula was for a
time in
> charge of Totenbücher, where deaths were registered;
> * The stories of Dr. Münch and Eva Kor as told -- in the style of
fairy
> tales -- on the Website CANDLES, (The name is an acronym for Children
of
> Auschwitz Nazi Deadly Lab Experiment Survivors), founded by Eva Mozes
Kor,
> at . She is based in Terre Haute,
Indiana.
> Probably a very boring place. It is a part of the booming US
> Shoah-business; her biography is in a file called "eva". She sells a
> biography, Echoes from Auschwitz. She can be reached at
;
> * The  Associated Press reports on 14 Oct the investigation of Dr.
Münch.
> * Dr. Hans Münch, "Glod i czas przezycia w obozie oswiecimskim",
(Hunger
> and Expectation of Life in Auschwitz) in Przeglad Lekarski, 1967,
Vol.1, p.
> 79-88.
> * On twins see "twin", a file on Candles website. Kor quotes the
following
> works:
> -- Lifton, Robert Jay. The Nazi Doctors. The United States: Basic
Books. 1986.
> -- Nyiszli., Dr. Miklos. Auschwitz: A Doctor's Story of Survival. New
York:
> Fawcett Crest. 1960. [A well known  forgery]
> -- Posner, Gerald L. and John Ware. Mengele. The Complete Story. New
York:
> Dell Publishing. 1986.
> -- Ramati, Alexander. And the Violins Stopped Playing.
> * Arnaud Leparmentier, "Les souvenirs sans remords du dernier médecin
nazi
> d'Auschwitz", Le Monde , 3 October 1998, p. 1.
>
> "All truth passes through three stages. First,
> it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
> and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
> ---Schopenhauer
>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Descriptions of Gassing At Auschwitz
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:14:05 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=896

> Philip,
>         How can you call information from a group that is known for
their
> lack of objectivity "real evidence"?

It's not. It's testimonial evidence and accepted by historians. Your
desperate denial is the  typical know nothing ranting of a fool.

 HA HA HA HA HA   As far as the
> "mindless" comment...all in this group knows who is a non compos
mentis and a
> true aversionist which you master quite well....OOP a compliment
think.
>    NOT!!!

Not very good at this, are you!

Philip Mathews

>
> In a message dated 9/7/99 9:37:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Hehehehe. Mindless denial from a fool who knows no other way to
handle
>  real evidence.
>
>  Philip Mathews >>

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Subject: [13texan] Re: Identity: A 'Christian' Religion for White
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:17:49 -0700
From: philnancy@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

Snead wrote:

philnanc-@aol.com wrote:
original article:http://www.egroups.com/group/13texan/?start=895

>     In the story about Randy Weaver the Government was found
neglectful and
> had to pay over 3 million dollars. There is a case pending on whether
the
> agent, who shot Weavers wife in the head while she held their infant
> daughter, will stand trial for murder.  Weaver sold one shotgun to a
criminal
> who was doing dirty work for the Government, The snake (probably a
Jew) kept
> on bugging Randy about selling him the gun, this went on for over six
months
> before Randy Weaver finally did sell the shot gun. It was proven in
court
> that it was entrapment and the charges were dropped. It also is not
illegal
> to have 100 handguns, 100 shotguns, and 100 rifles. All I know is
Randy
> didn't have very many weapons.

All of which is irrelevant to the hateful philosophy which underpins
people like you and Weaver. I'm not surprised that you ignored the
exposure of people like you and focused on something else.

>         Another thing...At least Randy weaver is a member of some
religious
> movement and not a cult that still sacrifices Goyim Children.

He's a member of a mindless hate group, as are you, and as the article
which you are unable to reply to demonstrated, your beliefs have
nothing to do with the Christian faith.

Flattened eh.

Philip Mathews

> Michael Snead

>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/7/99 4:55:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
philnancy@aol.com
> writes:
>
> << "Separatist Surrenders in Idaho." The story was
>  about Randy Weaver, a man indicted for selling two sawed-off
>  shotguns to undercover federal agents. During the FBI's attempt
>  to force Weaver to leave his Idaho home and return to court, three
>  people were killed: a federal agent and Weaver's wife and son. When
>  the standoff was over, 15 handguns, shotguns, and rifles were
collected
>  from his cabin.[1] Randy Weaver is a member of a religious movement
>>

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Subject: [13texan] All Christians anti-semitic??
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:32:24 -0000
From: reiver@tca.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

POLISH-AMERICAN PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE
Dana I. Alvi - Chairwoman       P. O.  Box  3206
Tel & Fax  310 - 829 -1527      Santa Monica, CA. 90408
E-mail:  PAPUREC@aol.com      http://www.poland.org/papurec

December 12, 1998

Give up JESUS AS GOD

Below is an excerpt from the Australian Jewish News, Melbourne
Edition,
Vol. 62, No. 43 - Friday, July 26, 1996, page 9, followed by
commentaries
by Bruno Hetmanski, Rye, NY.

QUOTE:    "Christians and Jews Christians have to make choice -
 "either retain their present belief system and be antisemitic
 or form a partnership with the Jewish people."

This is the view of Bar-Ilan University's Rabbi Dr. Pinchas Hayman,
who is active in Jewish-Christian dialogue and in encouraging
modern
Christianity to return to its Jewish roots by observing the Seven
Noahide
Laws.

"As long as Christians keep Jesus as God, they will be antisemitic
because
that belief must lead them to believe that those who reject Jesus
reject
the God", he told the Australian Jewish News.

"That's how the process of satanising the Jews began.  That belief
is the
root cause of 1500 years of the Christian idolatrous antisemitism
which
led to Holocaust."

Proficient in New Testament Studies and Classical Greek, Dr.
Hayman
noted that at least five American churches have given up belief in
Jesus."

  --   --   --  End of quoted Australian Jewish News.  --   --   --

The above citation is yet another example of Jewish obnoxiousness
taken to even greater heights (or depths) than we have come to
expect
through sorry experience.  First of all this vague inference that any
criticism of Jews would result in a "Holocaust", is a rather warn out
and
groundless argument that should not be given any credence.
Secondly, the
big lie that Christianity brought on what the Jews claim to be the
"Holocaust" is just as easy to refute as the Jews' claim of 6 million
casualties.

The Jews have used the shock value of their outrageous lies and
accusations to stun their victims into silence and submission, and
so far this tactic has worked.  However, the Jews' accusations have
not stood the test of time or public scrutiny, and an angry world
has come
to realize that very little of the Jews' claims are true.  In fact, one
can usually arrive at the truth regarding the Jews by postulating the
exact opposite of whatever they happen to be proclaiming or any
issue.

Unfortunately, the Jews have extorted QUADRILLION dollars from
the
world with their "Holocaust" scams, before some serious questions
about their hoaxes have begun to be raised by significant numbers
of
people.

The Jews have brainwashed the world into believing that any
criticism of
the Jews is both irrational and totally unrelated to the Jews' own
behaviors.  The Jews' assertion that the deification of Jesus Christ
is
the root of all anti-Semitism is another one of their big lies.  Jews
have
stereotyped Christian attitudes in order to show themselves in the
best
light and to draw attention from the types of their own behaviors that
deserve resounding condemnation.

Christianity cannot be blamed for the "Holocaust".  What caused
the
"Holocaust" was the Jews' own manipulation of the Germanic
psyche
in the creation of a Judaized Protestantism that was contaminated
with
Jewish barbarism.  The resulting religion and world view has nothing
whatsoever to do with the Christianity which sprang from Classical
Latin
Culture.

The Jews capitalized upon the northern European Germanic
disaproval
of many aspects of the mediterranean classical culture in which
Christianity was perfected.  These misgivings drove the Reformation
to a greater degree that theological niceties.

The flattery and influence of the Jews helped in effectively de-
Christianizing, Judaizing, secularizing and nationalizing what once
was the dominant religion (Roman Catholicism) into a specific world
view.  That world view which resonated with the Germans' political
ambitions effectively turned White-Anglo-Saxson Protestants into
a life support system for the global Jewish agenda.  This agenda
included a resurgence of the slave trade which had been
suppressed
by Classical Christianity.  In addition, policies further
disenfrancising
serfs were instituted.  This Jewish agenda ultimately removed all
due
respect for the individual that had been carefully cultivated by
Christianity based in Latin Classical Culture.

Ultimately Judaized and secularized Protestantism negated the
concept of a supernatural Kingdom of God as used to be
exemplified
by the Church.  What was eventually offered in its place was the
temporal concept of the god-state. That kind of a world view was
the very foundation of both Hitlerism and Marxism.

There is not a single episode of Germanic military expansionism
that did not ultimately benefit the Jews irrespective of German
victory or defeat.  The history of our own century is full of examples
of
this.

Christian theology has suffered much at the hands of the Jewish
fifth columnists that were encouraged to leave the ghettos and
infiltrate the general population by Moses Mendelssohn (1729-
1786).

At the beginning of the XIXth century assimilated Jews began to
control universities to such an extent that they were professors of
Protestant theology.  (At this time, they are professors of Catholic
theology.)

The first works which represent Christianity from the Talmudic
point of view conceived by Jewish "converts" to Protestantism are:
"The Life of Christ" ("Das Leben Jesu") by David Strauss,
"The Essence of Christianity" ("Das Wessen Des Christentums")
 by Ludwig Feurbach,
"Christ and the Cesars" ("Christus Und Die Casaren) by Bruno
Baur.

Much of this Judaized Protestant theology has made its way into
the Catholic Church over the course of time.  The recent influx of
many Jewish "converts" into the Catholic clergy has created a
situation in which the Church has been softened up enough to
agree with any demands placed on it by Jews.  In fact, a "convert"
from Judaism, Eugene Fisher, has a pivotal role in the education of
all priests in the United States.

Despite all their wails and crocodile tears touting their alleged
historic
sufferings, Jews have turned out to have enjoyed much greater
power
influence and priviledges than they would want to be common
knowledge. As
far as persecution goes, the Jews were the first instigators of
persecution of Christians.  (Paul of Tarsus presided over the
execution of
St. Stephen.)  Jews aided and abetted the persecution of
Christians by
various Roman Emperors.

In this century alone, Jews have been directly involved in the
persecution and deaths of hundreds of times more Christians
than Jews ever perished at Christian hands.

Everyone knows about the "Spanish Inquisition" which was an
effort to curb the damage done by high ranking crypto-Jews in
the Church hierarchy.  Lurid accounts of this process were the
result of Jewish sour grapes.  Not many people are aware of the
"Jewish Inquisition" in which crazed rabbis terrorized their
communities for centuries, tormenting any Jew who had the
slightest concilliatory or tolerant attitude towards Christians.

Benjamin Disraeli in his somewhat authobiographical political
novel "Coningsby" (1884) considered the Jews' position in society
so strong that he openly admitted to their great influence and even
alluded to the Communist Manifesto which was published four
years later.

Disraeli's final words in "Coningsby" are quite chilling:  " ... you see,
therefore, my Dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by
completely
different personages, than as it is imagined by those who are not
behind
the scenes."

Disraeli's extreme Jewish racism was politically manifest in the
structure he created for the British Empire.  In no way can all the
evils of the world as connected with the British Empire be blamed
on a bunch of dead white males, but rather on a bunch of stooges
of the Jewish agenda.

Rabbi Pinchas Hayman and his demands that Christians reject
Jesus as God is nothing new.  The Jew Arius proclaimed the same
message in the early history of Christianity.  What is new is his
claim that Christianity has Jewish roots. It does not !  Christ could
never ever be considered a Jew in the modern sense of the word.
Jesus
Christ happened to be Jewish only in the area of ethnicity, not in the
area of faith.

As true Christians, Christ was a follower of Mosaism and not
Judaism. In
fact, Christ registered his abhorrence of the Jewish establishment
on many
occassions.  It is no accident that Christianity flowered in the
Classical
civilizations of Greece and Rome.  True Christianity could never
develop
in the shadow of Talmudic idolatry and superstition. Jews' attempts
to tie
Christianity to Talmudic Judaism is the true Abomination of
Desolation.

Regarding the Noahide Laws, Christians became rightly alarmed
when the US Congress passed an agreement to be subjected to
the Noahide Laws.  (Whatever happened to the separation of
Church
and State ?!)  Christians knew that Jews wanted Christianity to be
categorized as idolatry and punishable by death according to the
Noahide Laws.  Rabbi Hayman proving these fears to be well
founded.

If one were to seriously define idolatry, Judaism would have to top
the list of idolatrous "religions".  In reality, the Jews do not worship
any god but themselves, no matter how many hundreds of
Talmudic rules and
regulations they may turn into a spectacle.

"Judaism cannot even be termed a religion in the true sense of the
word.
Rather, Judaism is nothing more than a tribal hate cult that has
raised
racketeering and all manner of sociopathy to the level of a national
identity."
  --  Bruno Hetmanski.

Abraham H. Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation
League
of B'nai B'rith (New York) writing in ADL's "On the Frontline",
January
1994, page 2, said:

" ... The Holocaust is something different.  It is a singular event.
It is not simply one example of genocide but a near successful
attempt on the life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God
Himself. It
is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as recorded in the
Bible;
and like its direct opposite, which is relived weekly with the
Sabbath and
yearly with the Torah, it must be remembered from generation to
generation."
  --  End of quote by Foxman.

As exemplifying idolatry the above quote needs no comment.

 Dana I. Alvi 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: [13texan] The Star of David
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:11:12 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The Star of David in Shiloh

By James Templeton

This remarkable formation during the eclipse occurred over Shiloh, which was
made desolate when the temple became Ichabod. The Philistines had captured
the Ark of the Covenant. This now surely forebodes judgement in the so-called
Promised Land. The Star of David is an occult symbol. Its appearance in
Shiloh reminds us of the event that took place when the Priests desecrated
the tabernacle, so that His glory departed.

Eclipse from Eli on 11th August at 14.15 hours.

This is recorded in 1 Samuel 4:10-22, "And the Philistines fought, and Israel
was smitten, and they fled every man into his tent: and there was a very
great slaughter; for there fell of Israel thirty thousand footmen. And the
ark of God was taken; and the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were
slain. And there ran a man of Benjamin out of the army, and came to Shiloh
the same day with his clothes rent, and with earth upon his head. And when he
came, lo, Eli sat upon a seat by the wayside watching: for his heart trembled
for the ark of God. And when the man came into the city, and told [it], all
the city cried out. And when Eli heard the noise of the crying, he said, What
[meaneth] the noise of this tumult? And the man came in hastily, and told
Eli. Now Eli was ninety-and eight years old; and his eyes were dim, that he
could not see. And the man said unto Eli, I [am] he that came out of the
army, and I fled to day out of the army. And he said, What is there done, my
son? And the messenger answered and said Israel is fled before the
Philistines, and there hath been also a great slaughter among the people, and
thy two sons also, Hophni and Phinehas are dead, and the ark of God is taken.
And it came to pass, when he made mention of the ark of God, that he fell
from off the seat backward by the side of the gate, and his neck brake, and
he died: for he was an old man, and heavy. And he had judged Israel forty
years. And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, was with child, [near] to be
delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and
that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and
travailed; for her pains came upon her. And about the time of her death the
women that stood by her said unto her, fear not, for thou hast born a son.
But she answered not; neither did she regard [it]. And she named the child
Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God
was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband. And she said the
glory is departed from Israel: for the ark of God is taken."

There is talk about a Phinehas ministry, but we are considering one of Eli's
two wicked sons, who had literally turned the temple into a brothel. Their
old father, Eli, knew this, and warned them, but they refused to heed him.
YHWH condemned him through the child Samuel, for not expelling them from the
Priesthood. The crimes they had committed legally demanded the death penalty.
In Ulster many Protestants are prepared to sell their heritage for peace at
any price. The Chamber of Commerce and the Ministers of the large
Denominations are the same. They feel quite happy worshipping and praying
together with Roman Catholics in their Chapels or Churches. A true Protestant
should know that in every Chapel the wafer-god is in that compartment
regarded as the Most Holy Place. These people are playing at churches and
acting like Phinehas, who looked upon the Ark as having supernatural power,
and failed to seek the Holy one of Israel in prayer. It may take civil war to
remind these ministers of their heritage.

The Phinehas ministry describes those who use the church for their own
convenience. Eli's sons were desperate, for the Philistines were winning the
battle, so without guidance they brought the Ark of the Covenant on to the
battlefield. Instead of bringing Israel the deliverance they so badly need,
it was captured by the enemy. When Eli heard this he fell backwards and his
neck was broken. His daughter-in-law heard about all that had happened and
the death of her husband. She died after her son was born. Knowing the
circumstances she named him Ichabod, 350 'Iy-kabowd (ee-kaw-bode'); from 336
and 3519; (there is) no glory, i.e. inglorious; Ikabod, a son of Phineas:
KJV-I-chabod.

We could say the Promised Land was stolen from Israel-Britain or Ephraim,
also nicknamed John Bull, after Ephraim's symbol of the bullock. They are
also called Saxon fulfilling, Genesis 21:12 "And God said unto Abraham, Let
it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy
bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for
in Isaac shall thy seed be called." This is confirmed in Romans 9:7 "Neither,
because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac
shall thy seed be called." It is again confirmed in Hebrews 11:18 "Of whom it
was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called." They are therefore Isaac's
sons or Saxons.

The Ashenazim and Zionist Idumaean terrorists stole the land from Isaac's
sons to whom it belonged. At this time they fulfilled Ezekiel 11:15 "Son of
man, thy brethren, [even] thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the
house of Israel wholly, [are] they unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem
have said, Get you far from the LORD: unto us is this land given in
possession."

The six-sided Star of David is an occult symbol. In World War I Germany used
the Swastika, another occult symbol. When the angels of Mons first appeared
the high ranking German officers were very puzzled because they were in white
and had white horses. The Germans thought they were a Colonial Army. The
Germans were winning the war. When they saw this great army in white on white
horses, the officer commanding said, "Only these crazy British would march
like this to be killed like the dogs they are!" The Germans hailed them with
bullets that had no effect as they continued marching. Finally the Germans
fled, leaving a trail of weaponry. It was not the British or the Americans
who won that war but the angels of Mons. At that time all the Germans were
Israelites, and World War I started Jacob's trouble in 1914, Jeremiah 30:7
"Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the
time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

We all know that the Armistice was on the eleventh day, of the eleventh hour
of the eleventh month of 1918. The Promised Land came under British control
when the Turks surrendered the city on 9th December 1917. This is remarkable
because the Turks are also Edomites, yet they were never able to build houses
and make the land fruitful with parks and trees as the Zionists have done

Multitudes of Jews are now immigrating to Israel from Russia. This has
angered Orthodox Jews and the few Sephardic Jews from Spain and those who
have always lived in Israel.  All these Eastern European Jews are descendants
of the Khazars, and mostly atheists. If a Jew in Israel becomes a Christian
he is in danger of losing his citizenship, yet Jewish atheists are legally
made welcome.

The reason they are now in the Promised Land this is to fulfil prophecy,
Malachi 1:3-4, "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage
waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are
impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith
the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall
call them, The border of wickedness, and, the people against whom the LORD
hath indignation for ever." Here YHWH says they build which they have, "but
also that He will throw everything down. When all the facts are known, it
will be seen that they are indeed the border of wickedness."

This has also happened to once more fulfil Isaac's prediction concerning his
eldest son in

Genesis 27:39-40, "And Isaac his father answered and said unto him,
Behold,thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of
heaven from above; And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy
brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that
thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck." Esau under the name and yoke of
Zionism is building cities and houses in Israel. They are free from the yoke
of true Israel, represented by Great Britain and America.

Jesus spoke concerning Edom in Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which
would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before
me." Judas Iscariot and those who rejected Jesus were all Edomites forcibly
converted to Babylonian Judaism by the Maccabees when they lived in Syria.
They had to become Jews and be circumcised or else forfeit their lives. By
the time of Jesus they had full control of even the temple. The High Priests,
Annas and Caiaphas were both Edomites as was King Herod the Great, and his
son Herod, that fox who ruled Galilee, Luke 13:32 And he said unto them, Go
ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and
to morrow, and the third [day] I shall be perfected."

Herod Antipas, "that fox," was the son of Herod the Great and Malthace, a
Samaritan woman. Half Idumaean, half Samaritan, he had therefore not a drop
of Judah's blood in his veins, and "Galilee of the Gentiles" seemed a fit
dominion for such a prince. He ruled as "tetrarch" of Galilee and Peraea Luke
3:1 "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius
Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his
brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and
Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene," from 4 BC till 39 AD.

It is in their genes to reject Christ, as it is with the Canaanites,
Phoenicians and Philistines, who are all Hebrews but not Israelites in
Ireland. They hate anything British, because Britain is Israel.

This sign in the sky tells us to obey Luke 21:25-32, "And there shall be
signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth
distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's
hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are
coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall
they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And
when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your
heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable;
Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and
know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when
ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at
hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be
fulfilled."

The fig tree which Jesus cursed is the symbol of Jewry. The fruitful fig tree
will be Judah (Scotland and Ulster). Westminster Abbey was desecrated by
syncretism, the worship of Pagan Religions and the use of the pulpit by the
late Cardinal Hume. The Queen controls Westminster Abbey, and since the
removal of Jacob's Pillar Stone, or "Lia Fail," "The Stone of Destiny," from
the Coronation Chair, the British Royal Family have experienced terrible
judgements, and Divine Protection has seemingly been removed from them. They
need our prayers. When the Kingdom was divided, Israel had all the tribes
except Benjamin, for David's sake. This means Jacob's Pillar stone is no
longer in the Kingdom because the Psalmist writes in Psalm 114:1-2, "When
Israel went out of Egypt, the house of Jacob from a people of strange
language; Judah was his sanctuary, [and] Israel his dominion."

The true fig tree is therefore Scotland in particular. Hoping to win the next
election, Prime Minister John Major agreed to permit the Stone of Destiny to
be moved from its home in Westminster Abbey to Scotland. On St Andrews Day,
30th November 1996, Scotland's coronation stone, the Stone of Destiny, was
installed in Edinburgh Castle. About 10,000 people lined the Royal Mile to
watch the procession of dignitaries and troops escort the stone from Holyrood
Palace to the castle. In a service at St Giles cathedral the Church of
Scotland Moderator, the Right Reverend John MacIndoe, formally accepted the
stone's return saying it would "strengthen the proud distinctiveness of the
people of Scotland"

Once inside the castle the stone was laid on an oak table before the grand
fireplace of the early 16th century Great Hall. The Scottish Secretary of
State Michael Forsyth ceremoniously received it from Prince Andrew, who was
representing the Queen.

    Even more interesting was the election of the Scottish Parliament elected
on 6 May 1999, reconvened after a 292 year gap on 12 May 1999, and assumed
its full powers after the official opening by the Queen on 1 July 1999.
Surely this once more represents the budding of the leaves of the fig tree,
and all the trees which are the nations. Tony Blair considers this to be "The
Scottish Assembly," but the people of Scotland call it "The Scottish
Parliament." The Lord says in Matthew 24:32-36, "Now learn a parable of the
fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know
that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things,
know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This
generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and
earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and
hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

It is our privilege to be His watchmen, and to us in particular He say,
Isaiah 21:11-12, Isaiah 21:11 "The burden of Dumah. He calleth to me out of
Seir, Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night? The watchman
said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will enquire, enquire ye:
return, come." We need to be like the men of Issachar in  1 Chronicles 12:32
"And of the children of Issachar, which were men that had understanding of
the times, to know what Israel ought to do; the heads of them were two
hundred; and all their brethren were at their commandment." No matter what
our view of prophecy and the future, if like these men we have an
understanding of the times so that we know what to do, we can prepare and be
ready come what may.

Thank you Pastor for these great words of wisdom and I took the liberty to
post them at Willie's other website 13texan@egroups.com Please feel free to
post the same messages over there too. Through some sort of treachorous act,
Willie has been moved off of his own list and then Jews have posted their
nonsense on this site.



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Subject: [13texan] Fwd: All Christians anti-semitic??
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:37:27 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    More Reason to deny the Holohoax and the Talmud...Under no other name can
salvation be found than the name of JESUS....JESUS....JESUS

In a message dated 9/7/99 10:33:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, reiver@tca.net
writes:

<< POLISH-AMERICAN PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE
 Dana I. Alvi - Chairwoman  P. O.  Box  3206
 Tel & Fax  310 - 829 -1527 Santa Monica, CA. 90408
 E-mail:  PAPUREC@aol.com      http://www.poland.org/papurec

 December 12, 1998

 Give up JESUS AS GOD

 Below is an excerpt from the Australian Jewish News, Melbourne
 Edition,
 Vol. 62, No. 43 - Friday, July 26, 1996, page 9, followed by
 commentaries
 by Bruno Hetmanski, Rye, NY.

 QUOTE:    "Christians and Jews Christians have to make choice -
  "either retain their present belief system and be antisemitic
  or form a partnership with the Jewish people."

 This is the view of Bar-Ilan University's Rabbi Dr. Pinchas Hayman,
 who is active in Jewish-Christian dialogue and in encouraging
 modern
 Christianity to return to its Jewish roots by observing the Seven
 Noahide
 Laws.

 "As long as Christians keep Jesus as God, they will be antisemitic
 because
 that belief must lead them to believe that those who reject Jesus
 reject
 the God", he told the Australian Jewish News.

 "That's how the process of satanising the Jews began.  That belief
 is the
 root cause of 1500 years of the Christian idolatrous antisemitism
 which
 led to Holocaust."

 Proficient in New Testament Studies and Classical Greek, Dr.
 Hayman
 noted that at least five American churches have given up belief in
 Jesus."

   --   --   --  End of quoted Australian Jewish News.  --   --   --

 The above citation is yet another example of Jewish obnoxiousness
 taken to even greater heights (or depths) than we have come to
 expect
 through sorry experience.  First of all this vague inference that any
 criticism of Jews would result in a "Holocaust", is a rather warn out
 and
 groundless argument that should not be given any credence.
 Secondly, the
 big lie that Christianity brought on what the Jews claim to be the
 "Holocaust" is just as easy to refute as the Jews' claim of 6 million
 casualties.

 The Jews have used the shock value of their outrageous lies and
 accusations to stun their victims into silence and submission, and
 so far this tactic has worked.  However, the Jews' accusations have
 not stood the test of time or public scrutiny, and an angry world
 has come
 to realize that very little of the Jews' claims are true.  In fact, one
 can usually arrive at the truth regarding the Jews by postulating the
 exact opposite of whatever they happen to be proclaiming or any
 issue.

 Unfortunately, the Jews have extorted QUADRILLION dollars from
 the
 world with their "Holocaust" scams, before some serious questions
 about their hoaxes have begun to be raised by significant numbers
 of
 people.

 The Jews have brainwashed the world into believing that any
 criticism of
 the Jews is both irrational and totally unrelated to the Jews' own
 behaviors.  The Jews' assertion that the deification of Jesus Christ
 is
 the root of all anti-Semitism is another one of their big lies.  Jews
 have
 stereotyped Christian attitudes in order to show themselves in the
 best
 light and to draw attention from the types of their own behaviors that
 deserve resounding condemnation.

 Christianity cannot be blamed for the "Holocaust".  What caused
 the
 "Holocaust" was the Jews' own manipulation of the Germanic
 psyche
 in the creation of a Judaized Protestantism that was contaminated
 with
 Jewish barbarism.  The resulting religion and world view has nothing
 whatsoever to do with the Christianity which sprang from Classical
 Latin
 Culture.

 The Jews capitalized upon the northern European Germanic
 disaproval
 of many aspects of the mediterranean classical culture in which
 Christianity was perfected.  These misgivings drove the Reformation
 to a greater degree that theological niceties.

 The flattery and influence of the Jews helped in effectively de-
 Christianizing, Judaizing, secularizing and nationalizing what once
 was the dominant religion (Roman Catholicism) into a specific world
 view.  That world view which resonated with the Germans' political
 ambitions effectively turned White-Anglo-Saxson Protestants into
 a life support system for the global Jewish agenda.  This agenda
 included a resurgence of the slave trade which had been
 suppressed
 by Classical Christianity.  In addition, policies further
 disenfrancising
 serfs were instituted.  This Jewish agenda ultimately removed all
 due
 respect for the individual that had been carefully cultivated by
 Christianity based in Latin Classical Culture.

 Ultimately Judaized and secularized Protestantism negated the
 concept of a supernatural Kingdom of God as used to be
 exemplified
 by the Church.  What was eventually offered in its place was the
 temporal concept of the god-state. That kind of a world view was
 the very foundation of both Hitlerism and Marxism.

 There is not a single episode of Germanic military expansionism
 that did not ultimately benefit the Jews irrespective of German
 victory or defeat.  The history of our own century is full of examples
 of
 this.

 Christian theology has suffered much at the hands of the Jewish
 fifth columnists that were encouraged to leave the ghettos and
 infiltrate the general population by Moses Mendelssohn (1729-
 1786).

 At the beginning of the XIXth century assimilated Jews began to
 control universities to such an extent that they were professors of
 Protestant theology.  (At this time, they are professors of Catholic
 theology.)

 The first works which represent Christianity from the Talmudic
 point of view conceived by Jewish "converts" to Protestantism are:
 "The Life of Christ" ("Das Leben Jesu") by David Strauss,
 "The Essence of Christianity" ("Das Wessen Des Christentums")
  by Ludwig Feurbach,
 "Christ and the Cesars" ("Christus Und Die Casaren) by Bruno
 Baur.

 Much of this Judaized Protestant theology has made its way into
 the Catholic Church over the course of time.  The recent influx of
 many Jewish "converts" into the Catholic clergy has created a
 situation in which the Church has been softened up enough to
 agree with any demands placed on it by Jews.  In fact, a "convert"
 from Judaism, Eugene Fisher, has a pivotal role in the education of
 all priests in the United States.

 Despite all their wails and crocodile tears touting their alleged
 historic
 sufferings, Jews have turned out to have enjoyed much greater
 power
 influence and priviledges than they would want to be common
 knowledge. As
 far as persecution goes, the Jews were the first instigators of
 persecution of Christians.  (Paul of Tarsus presided over the
 execution of
 St. Stephen.)  Jews aided and abetted the persecution of
 Christians by
 various Roman Emperors.

 In this century alone, Jews have been directly involved in the
 persecution and deaths of hundreds of times more Christians
 than Jews ever perished at Christian hands.

 Everyone knows about the "Spanish Inquisition" which was an
 effort to curb the damage done by high ranking crypto-Jews in
 the Church hierarchy.  Lurid accounts of this process were the
 result of Jewish sour grapes.  Not many people are aware of the
 "Jewish Inquisition" in which crazed rabbis terrorized their
 communities for centuries, tormenting any Jew who had the
 slightest concilliatory or tolerant attitude towards Christians.

 Benjamin Disraeli in his somewhat authobiographical political
 novel "Coningsby" (1884) considered the Jews' position in society
 so strong that he openly admitted to their great influence and even
 alluded to the Communist Manifesto which was published four
 years later.

 Disraeli's final words in "Coningsby" are quite chilling:  " ... you see,
 therefore, my Dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by
 completely
 different personages, than as it is imagined by those who are not
 behind
 the scenes."

 Disraeli's extreme Jewish racism was politically manifest in the
 structure he created for the British Empire.  In no way can all the
 evils of the world as connected with the British Empire be blamed
 on a bunch of dead white males, but rather on a bunch of stooges
 of the Jewish agenda.

 Rabbi Pinchas Hayman and his demands that Christians reject
 Jesus as God is nothing new.  The Jew Arius proclaimed the same
 message in the early history of Christianity.  What is new is his
 claim that Christianity has Jewish roots. It does not !  Christ could
 never ever be considered a Jew in the modern sense of the word.
 Jesus
 Christ happened to be Jewish only in the area of ethnicity, not in the
 area of faith.

 As true Christians, Christ was a follower of Mosaism and not
 Judaism. In
 fact, Christ registered his abhorrence of the Jewish establishment
 on many
 occassions.  It is no accident that Christianity flowered in the
 Classical
 civilizations of Greece and Rome.  True Christianity could never
 develop
 in the shadow of Talmudic idolatry and superstition. Jews' attempts
 to tie
 Christianity to Talmudic Judaism is the true Abomination of
 Desolation.

 Regarding the Noahide Laws, Christians became rightly alarmed
 when the US Congress passed an agreement to be subjected to
 the Noahide Laws.  (Whatever happened to the separation of
 Church
 and State ?!)  Christians knew that Jews wanted Christianity to be
 categorized as idolatry and punishable by death according to the
 Noahide Laws.  Rabbi Hayman proving these fears to be well
 founded.

 If one were to seriously define idolatry, Judaism would have to top
 the list of idolatrous "religions".  In reality, the Jews do not worship
 any god but themselves, no matter how many hundreds of
 Talmudic rules and
 regulations they may turn into a spectacle.

 "Judaism cannot even be termed a religion in the true sense of the
 word.
 Rather, Judaism is nothing more than a tribal hate cult that has
 raised
 racketeering and all manner of sociopathy to the level of a national
 identity."
   --  Bruno Hetmanski.

 Abraham H. Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation
 League
 of B'nai B'rith (New York) writing in ADL's "On the Frontline",
 January
 1994, page 2, said:

 " ... The Holocaust is something different.  It is a singular event.
 It is not simply one example of genocide but a near successful
 attempt on the life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God
 Himself. It
 is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as recorded in the
 Bible;
 and like its direct opposite, which is relived weekly with the
 Sabbath and
 yearly with the Torah, it must be remembered from generation to
 generation."
   --  End of quote by Foxman.

 As exemplifying idolatry the above quote needs no comment.

  Dana I. Alvi 
 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>

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Subject: [13texan] All Christians anti-semitic??
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 02:32:24 -0000
From: reiver@tca.net
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

POLISH-AMERICAN PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE
Dana I. Alvi - Chairwoman       P. O.  Box  3206
Tel & Fax  310 - 829 -1527      Santa Monica, CA. 90408
E-mail:  PAPUREC@aol.com      http://www.poland.org/papurec

December 12, 1998

Give up JESUS AS GOD

Below is an excerpt from the Australian Jewish News, Melbourne
Edition,
Vol. 62, No. 43 - Friday, July 26, 1996, page 9, followed by
commentaries
by Bruno Hetmanski, Rye, NY.

QUOTE:    "Christians and Jews Christians have to make choice -
 "either retain their present belief system and be antisemitic
 or form a partnership with the Jewish people."

This is the view of Bar-Ilan University's Rabbi Dr. Pinchas Hayman,
who is active in Jewish-Christian dialogue and in encouraging
modern
Christianity to return to its Jewish roots by observing the Seven
Noahide
Laws.

"As long as Christians keep Jesus as God, they will be antisemitic
because
that belief must lead them to believe that those who reject Jesus
reject
the God", he told the Australian Jewish News.

"That's how the process of satanising the Jews began.  That belief
is the
root cause of 1500 years of the Christian idolatrous antisemitism
which
led to Holocaust."

Proficient in New Testament Studies and Classical Greek, Dr.
Hayman
noted that at least five American churches have given up belief in
Jesus."

  --   --   --  End of quoted Australian Jewish News.  --   --   --

The above citation is yet another example of Jewish obnoxiousness
taken to even greater heights (or depths) than we have come to
expect
through sorry experience.  First of all this vague inference that any
criticism of Jews would result in a "Holocaust", is a rather warn out
and
groundless argument that should not be given any credence.
Secondly, the
big lie that Christianity brought on what the Jews claim to be the
"Holocaust" is just as easy to refute as the Jews' claim of 6 million
casualties.

The Jews have used the shock value of their outrageous lies and
accusations to stun their victims into silence and submission, and
so far this tactic has worked.  However, the Jews' accusations have
not stood the test of time or public scrutiny, and an angry world
has come
to realize that very little of the Jews' claims are true.  In fact, one
can usually arrive at the truth regarding the Jews by postulating the
exact opposite of whatever they happen to be proclaiming or any
issue.

Unfortunately, the Jews have extorted QUADRILLION dollars from
the
world with their "Holocaust" scams, before some serious questions
about their hoaxes have begun to be raised by significant numbers
of
people.

The Jews have brainwashed the world into believing that any
criticism of
the Jews is both irrational and totally unrelated to the Jews' own
behaviors.  The Jews' assertion that the deification of Jesus Christ
is
the root of all anti-Semitism is another one of their big lies.  Jews
have
stereotyped Christian attitudes in order to show themselves in the
best
light and to draw attention from the types of their own behaviors that
deserve resounding condemnation.

Christianity cannot be blamed for the "Holocaust".  What caused
the
"Holocaust" was the Jews' own manipulation of the Germanic
psyche
in the creation of a Judaized Protestantism that was contaminated
with
Jewish barbarism.  The resulting religion and world view has nothing
whatsoever to do with the Christianity which sprang from Classical
Latin
Culture.

The Jews capitalized upon the northern European Germanic
disaproval
of many aspects of the mediterranean classical culture in which
Christianity was perfected.  These misgivings drove the Reformation
to a greater degree that theological niceties.

The flattery and influence of the Jews helped in effectively de-
Christianizing, Judaizing, secularizing and nationalizing what once
was the dominant religion (Roman Catholicism) into a specific world
view.  That world view which resonated with the Germans' political
ambitions effectively turned White-Anglo-Saxson Protestants into
a life support system for the global Jewish agenda.  This agenda
included a resurgence of the slave trade which had been
suppressed
by Classical Christianity.  In addition, policies further
disenfrancising
serfs were instituted.  This Jewish agenda ultimately removed all
due
respect for the individual that had been carefully cultivated by
Christianity based in Latin Classical Culture.

Ultimately Judaized and secularized Protestantism negated the
concept of a supernatural Kingdom of God as used to be
exemplified
by the Church.  What was eventually offered in its place was the
temporal concept of the god-state. That kind of a world view was
the very foundation of both Hitlerism and Marxism.

There is not a single episode of Germanic military expansionism
that did not ultimately benefit the Jews irrespective of German
victory or defeat.  The history of our own century is full of examples
of
this.

Christian theology has suffered much at the hands of the Jewish
fifth columnists that were encouraged to leave the ghettos and
infiltrate the general population by Moses Mendelssohn (1729-
1786).

At the beginning of the XIXth century assimilated Jews began to
control universities to such an extent that they were professors of
Protestant theology.  (At this time, they are professors of Catholic
theology.)

The first works which represent Christianity from the Talmudic
point of view conceived by Jewish "converts" to Protestantism are:
"The Life of Christ" ("Das Leben Jesu") by David Strauss,
"The Essence of Christianity" ("Das Wessen Des Christentums")
 by Ludwig Feurbach,
"Christ and the Cesars" ("Christus Und Die Casaren) by Bruno
Baur.

Much of this Judaized Protestant theology has made its way into
the Catholic Church over the course of time.  The recent influx of
many Jewish "converts" into the Catholic clergy has created a
situation in which the Church has been softened up enough to
agree with any demands placed on it by Jews.  In fact, a "convert"
from Judaism, Eugene Fisher, has a pivotal role in the education of
all priests in the United States.

Despite all their wails and crocodile tears touting their alleged
historic
sufferings, Jews have turned out to have enjoyed much greater
power
influence and priviledges than they would want to be common
knowledge. As
far as persecution goes, the Jews were the first instigators of
persecution of Christians.  (Paul of Tarsus presided over the
execution of
St. Stephen.)  Jews aided and abetted the persecution of
Christians by
various Roman Emperors.

In this century alone, Jews have been directly involved in the
persecution and deaths of hundreds of times more Christians
than Jews ever perished at Christian hands.

Everyone knows about the "Spanish Inquisition" which was an
effort to curb the damage done by high ranking crypto-Jews in
the Church hierarchy.  Lurid accounts of this process were the
result of Jewish sour grapes.  Not many people are aware of the
"Jewish Inquisition" in which crazed rabbis terrorized their
communities for centuries, tormenting any Jew who had the
slightest concilliatory or tolerant attitude towards Christians.

Benjamin Disraeli in his somewhat authobiographical political
novel "Coningsby" (1884) considered the Jews' position in society
so strong that he openly admitted to their great influence and even
alluded to the Communist Manifesto which was published four
years later.

Disraeli's final words in "Coningsby" are quite chilling:  " ... you see,
therefore, my Dear Coningsby, that the world is governed by
completely
different personages, than as it is imagined by those who are not
behind
the scenes."

Disraeli's extreme Jewish racism was politically manifest in the
structure he created for the British Empire.  In no way can all the
evils of the world as connected with the British Empire be blamed
on a bunch of dead white males, but rather on a bunch of stooges
of the Jewish agenda.

Rabbi Pinchas Hayman and his demands that Christians reject
Jesus as God is nothing new.  The Jew Arius proclaimed the same
message in the early history of Christianity.  What is new is his
claim that Christianity has Jewish roots. It does not !  Christ could
never ever be considered a Jew in the modern sense of the word.
Jesus
Christ happened to be Jewish only in the area of ethnicity, not in the
area of faith.

As true Christians, Christ was a follower of Mosaism and not
Judaism. In
fact, Christ registered his abhorrence of the Jewish establishment
on many
occassions.  It is no accident that Christianity flowered in the
Classical
civilizations of Greece and Rome.  True Christianity could never
develop
in the shadow of Talmudic idolatry and superstition. Jews' attempts
to tie
Christianity to Talmudic Judaism is the true Abomination of
Desolation.

Regarding the Noahide Laws, Christians became rightly alarmed
when the US Congress passed an agreement to be subjected to
the Noahide Laws.  (Whatever happened to the separation of
Church
and State ?!)  Christians knew that Jews wanted Christianity to be
categorized as idolatry and punishable by death according to the
Noahide Laws.  Rabbi Hayman proving these fears to be well
founded.

If one were to seriously define idolatry, Judaism would have to top
the list of idolatrous "religions".  In reality, the Jews do not worship
any god but themselves, no matter how many hundreds of
Talmudic rules and
regulations they may turn into a spectacle.

"Judaism cannot even be termed a religion in the true sense of the
word.
Rather, Judaism is nothing more than a tribal hate cult that has
raised
racketeering and all manner of sociopathy to the level of a national
identity."
  --  Bruno Hetmanski.

Abraham H. Foxman, National Director of the Anti-Defamation
League
of B'nai B'rith (New York) writing in ADL's "On the Frontline",
January
1994, page 2, said:

" ... The Holocaust is something different.  It is a singular event.
It is not simply one example of genocide but a near successful
attempt on the life of God's chosen children and, thus, on God
Himself. It
is an event that is the antithesis of Creation as recorded in the
Bible;
and like its direct opposite, which is relived weekly with the
Sabbath and
yearly with the Torah, it must be remembered from generation to
generation."
  --  End of quote by Foxman.

As exemplifying idolatry the above quote needs no comment.

 Dana I. Alvi 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

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Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 1 by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:42:57 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

< From: Willie Martin 

     I realize that I am an uninvited guest in this conversation, but if you
 really want to know what we think of the HoloHoax and why we think so. I am
 sending several posts to the list, and if you wish to read them then so be
 it and then you decide for yourself; if you don't wish to read them then
 simply delete them. Willie

    More Jewish Lies Exposed!

    For more than fifty years, since the end of World War II, the Talmudic,
 Zionist Jews have sought to manipulate through Jewish Socialization, White
 Western public opinion by crying, "Poor, persecuted Jew," while
 systematically victimizing White Christian culture. This constitutes a
 perfect description of the Jewish Socialization or Jewish Socialism. Both
 atheistic, Jewish, Socialism and atheistic, Communist, Socialism are ideas
 predicated upon the practice of engineering society along atheistic and
 Jewish ideas. This has been the method of operation of the atheistic,
 Talmudic, Zionist Jew even before the first century or the time of Christ.

    The atheistic Jew has relentlessly sought to impose his materialistic,
 atheistic ideas upon the Western White man, both religious and political.
 He has systematically invaded the White Man's schools of theology, seeking
 to destroy any lingering first century ideas of Christianity, and in turn
 pervert Christianity against itself, enabling the Jew to use Christianity
 as a tool to destroy the White Race. Thus, Judeo-Christianity is nothing
 more than Judaized versions of so-called Christianity. This becomes a tool
 of the Jewish Socialist.

    "The Gnostics derived their leading doctrines and ideas from Plato and
 Philo, the Zend-avesta, the Kabbalah, and the Sacred books of India and
 Egypt; and thus introduced into the bosom of Christianity the cosmological
 and theosophical speculations, which had formed the larger portion of the
 ancient religions of the Orient, joined to those of the Egyptian, Greek,
 and Jewish doctrines, which the Neo-Platonists had equally adopted in the
 Occident..It is admitted that the cradle of Gnosticism is probably to be
 looked for in Syria and even in Palestine. Most of its expounders wrote in
 that corrupted form of the Greek used by the Hellenistic Jews...and there
 was a striking analogy between their doctrines and those of the
 Judeo-Egyptian Philo of Alexandria; itself the seat of three schools, at
 once philosophic and religious, the Greek, the Egyptian, and the Jewish.
 Pythagoras and Plato, the most mystical of the Grecian philosophers (the
 latter heir to the doctrines of the former), and who had traveled, the
 latter in Egypt, and the former in Phoenicia, India, and Persia, also
 taught the esoteric doctrine...The dominant doctrines of Plutonism were
 found in Gnosticism...
    The Jewish-Greek School of Alexandria is known only by two of its chiefs,
 Aristobulus and Philo, both Jews of Alexandria in Egypt. Belonging to Asia
 by its origin, to Egypt by its residence, to Greece by its language and
 studies, it strove to show that all truths embedded in the philosophies of
 other countries were transplanted thither from Palestine. Aristobulus
 declared that all the facts and details of the Jewish Scriptures were so
 many allegories concealing the most profound meanings, and that Plato had
 borrowed from them all his finest ideas.
    Philo, who lived a century after him, following the same theory,
 endeavored to show that the Hebrew writings, by their system of allegories,
 were the true source of all religions and philosophical doctrines.
 According to him, the literal meaning was for the vulgar alone...The Jews
 of Syria and Judea were the direct precursors of Gnosticism; and in their
 doctrines were ample Oriental elements.
    These Jews had had with the Orient, at two different periods, intimate
 relations, familiarizing them with the doctrines of Asia and especially of
 Chaldea and Persia...Living nearly two-thirds of a century, and many of
 them long afterward, in Mesopotamia, the cradle of their race; speaking the
 same language, and their children reared with those of the Chaldeans.
 Assyrians, Medes, and Persians, they necessarily adopted many of the
 doctrines of their conquerors...and these additions to the old doctrine
 were soon spread by the constant intercourse of commerce into Syria and
 Palestine...
    From Egypt or Persia the new Platonists borrowed the idea, and the
 Gnostics received it from them, that man, in his terrestrial career, is
 successively under the influence of the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars,
 Jupiter, and Saturn, until he finally reaches the Elysian Fields." (Morals
 and Dogmas, Albert Pike)

    The Jew has also systematically invaded the schools of learning. Today,
 the atheistic Jew continues to Jewish/socialize little, White, Christian
 children by teaching his atheistic and communistic holocaust (holohoax)
 propaganda in the American schools, all the while denying White, Christian
 Americans their freedom of speech and freedom to rebut or dispute the
 blatant Jewish liars who come to the American school system to tell their
 demonic lies, and thereby Jewish/socialize our American White children.

    "'The Jewish Establishment": 'In the early 1930s, Walter Duranty of the
 New York Times was in Moscow, covering Joe Stalin the way Joe Stalin wanted
 to be covered. To maintain favor and access, he expressly denied that there
 was famine in Ukraine even while millions of Ukrainian Christians were
 being starved into submission. For his work Duranty won the Pulitzer Prize
 for journalism. To this day, the Times remains the most magisterial and
 respectable of American newspapers.
    Now imagine that a major newspaper had had a correspondent in Berlin
 during roughly the same period who hobnobbed with Hitler, portrayed him in
 a flattering light, and denied that Jews were being mistreated, thereby not
 only concealing, but materially assisting the regime's persecution. Would
 that paper's respectability have been unimpaired several decades later?
    There you have an epitome of what is lamely called 'media bias.' The
 Western supporters of Stalin haven't just been excused; they have received
 the halo of victim hood for the campaign, in what liberals call 'the
 McCarthy era,' to get them out of the government, the education system, and
 respectable society itself.
    Not only persecution of Jews but any critical mention of Jewish power in
 the media and politics is roundly condemned as 'anti- Semitism.' But there
 isn't even a term of opprobrium for participation in the mass murders of
 Christians. Liberals still don't censure the Communist attempt to extirpate
 Christianity from Soviet Russia and its empire, and for good reason,
 liberals themselves, particularly Jewish liberals, are still trying to
 uproot Christianity from America.
    It's permissible to discuss the power of every other group, from the Black
 Muslims to the Christian Right, but the much greater power of the Jewish
 establishment is off-limits. That, in fact, is the chief measure of its
 power: its ability to impose its own taboos while tearing down the taboos
 of others, you might almost say its prerogative of offending. You can read
 articles in Jewish-controlled publications from the Times to Commentary
 blaming Christianity for the Holocaust or accusing Pope Pius XII of
 indifference to it, but don't look for articles in any major publication
 that wants to stay in business examining the Jewish role in Communism and
 liberalism, however temperately." (The Jewish Establishment, Joseph Sobran,
 September 1995 issue)

    The holocaust is taught in schools, and the Jew is allowed to come in and
 teach his religious views in the context of teaching about the holocaust,
 and he influences our children into believing that Jews are the chosen
 people of God. In reality, true White Christians are the Chosen People of
God.

  >>

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Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 2 by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:47:02 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 

    Today, at this late hour of the history of White Christianity, the Jew
has sought to brainwash uneducated and ignorant generations into the
misplaced pity and sorrow of what can only be called The Jewish Holocaust
Religion. Jews are allowed to teach people to hate Jesus Christ and blaspheme
Almighty God, yet they are admired and pitied by most people in the world,
while they tell blatant lies about the so-called German "death camps." These
lies cannot be proven scientifically and are lies designed only to be cheap,
Jewish public relation propaganda to invoke pity for the Jews, while they
pick the American White Man's pockets and raid White America like a corporate
lawyer.

    The pity heaped on them is misplaced pity that should be directed to
Jesus Christ, as He was the only innocent person ever to walk the face of the
earth, and yet was put to death by the Jewish people. Now, however, even
though the Jews believe and teach in their synagogues that Jesus is boiling
in excrement in Hell, to call a Jew a Christ-killer is an offense that has
put people in jail for much of their lives.

    The Holocaust He was first fabricated by the head of the KGB, the Jew
Lavrenty Beria. Since then, week after week, for almost fifty years, the
television, radio, and media have continued to brainwash the American public
with scores of historically inaccurate anti-Nazi and anti-German movies,
claiming a German conspiracy to commit genocide against the Jewish people.

    Yet, no conspiracy or so-called "Final Solution" has ever been proven to
have existed among the Nazi leadership. It is true that hundreds of thousands
of people died during World War II, and yes, a small percentage of them were
Jews. It is true that thousands died in the internment camps, many of whom
were confessed enemies of the national state. Some were gypsies, Communists,
Baptists, Masons, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses, Germans, Poles, Czechs
and Frenchmen.

    The Jews have been exposed to claim that those non-Jews who died in the
camps were Jewish in order to further exaggerate the numbers of Jews who died
in concentration camps. It is very important, for the sake of truth, to
remember that the work or industrial camps were continuously exposed to
rampant diseases. At the time that these camps existed throughout Europe,
there were no magic drugs like our antibiotics. Most people in the European
camps died of dysentery, influenza, or perhaps hepatitis B, tuberculosis,
cholera, typhus, or even old age. So it may be said that while the majority
of deaths were of natural causes or disease, they were nevertheless premature
because of the war.

    Talking about numbers let us examine a few here:

    1). How long does it take to cremate a body?

    Answer: According to crematory operators today, it takes more about two
hours to completely cremate a body.

    2). How long did it take to cremate a body during World War II?

    Answer: Cremation was a relatively new thing in the early 40s and
therefore it took more than four hours to cremate a single body. It would
have been impossible to cremate more than one body at a time, for with more
bodies the time needed to create the bodies would increase with each body.
>From one body and four hours to three bodies and eight hours, four bodies and
12 hours and etc.

    3). How much residue and ashes are left after a body is cremated?

    Answer: Today there is about 10 to 12 pounds of residue, depending upon
the size of the body; and that is with the residue being run through a
grinder to reduce the larger bone fragments into smaller one. In the 40s
there would have been 40 to 50 pounds of residue and no grinding to reduce
the larger bone and meat fragments, so there would have no other reduction in
the size of the body.

    3). How much weight in ashes and bone fragments would it take to fill a
box car or hopper car?

    Answer: The European rail cars are about ½ the size of the ones in the
United States, then and now. So it would have taken about 20,000 pounds of
residue to fill a box car.

    4). How many men would it have taken to transfer the residue from the
ovens to the rail siding where they would have been loaded out on?

    Answer: With one man and one wheel borrow which would have held about 50
pounds of residue it would have taken about 200 hundred men to transfer the
20,000 pounds that would fill the box car. These men would have had to move
constantly and therefore would have had to be releaved every few hours to let
them rest so that they could work again. Thus the number of men would have to
be 600 at the rate of 200 men changing shifts every 8 hours.

    Now slave labor, as history has shown, is the worst sort of labor;
because there is no incentive to produce more and more. Instead the slaves
move less and less as time progresses. This would have added another 600 to
the work force thus causing the Germans to have use 1200 men for one box or
hopper car per day, just to move the residue from the ovens to the rail
sidings. Of course we have not taken into consideration the distance that the
men would have to travel with their wheel barrow; and thus would have added
substantually more men to the work force.

    5). How many men would have taken to load the residue in the box or
hopper cars after the transfer from the ovens?

    Answer: Due to the fact that the European cars are about ½ the size of
American ones, it would have take at least 4 men on each side of the car
shoveling the residue up into the car. Then it would have taken 4 men, two on
each side to throw the residue from the door to the back of the car. This
would have taken at least 8 men, and since they would have to be relieved
every few hours that would increase the work forces from 8 to 24 men. Then
just as we had to double the work force because of the slowdown in the
movement of the slave labor, it would therefore take 72 men to load the cars.
Again we are not taking into consideration the sickness and accidents which
would necessarily happen because of humans being just that: humans. Which
would also increase the work force.

    6). How many cars could be loaded at the same time? And how many cars
would a siding hold?

    Answer: Only about 10 cars could be loaded at one time because if more
than that were loaded, the workers would be getting into each others way,
thus causing both a slowdown and additional workers to the work force.
Therefore, it would take about 1300 men to load 10 cars in one days 24 hours
time.

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Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 3 by Willie Martin
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:58:26 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

    7). How many pounds of residue would 4,000,000 bodies produce?

    Answer: At the rate of 40 to 50 pounds per body; and we will use the
lesser weight of 40 pounds, it would produce 4,000,000 x 40 pounds =
160,000,000 millions of pounds of residue.

    8). How many rail cars would it take to move 160,000,000 pounds of
residue?

    Answer: At the rate of 20,000 pounds per car, and that is really filling
the car up because the car would probably not hold more than 15,000 pounds,
it would take about 16,000 cars. Which would not have been possible because
the allied bombers were bombing everything in sight day and night and would
have destroyed that many cars in raids.

    9). How long would it take at the rate of 10 cars per day to move 16000
cars?

    Answer: It wouldhave taken 16000 days.

    10). How many years wouldit have taken to move these cars at the rate
above mentioned?

    Answer: it would have taken 16000 days divided by 365 days in a year = 54
years.

    Therefore, it would not have been possible to cremate 4,000,000 people
and move their asshes and residue in 3 years time.

    The movies give the false impression that only Jews were interned in the
work and labor camps. The Jews have claimed hundreds of thousands of non-Jews
in order to fabricate their numbers and claim that 6 million Jews purposely
were killed at the hands of the SS, simply because they were Jewish. In
recent years, whenever a White Christian would speak up to point out the
irrefutable and blatant facts about the atheistic Jewish Holocaust Myth. The
Jews have done everything they can to stifle the American man's freedom of
speech in his own country.

    This is a one-sided presentation of World War II that belittles the
American fighting man's part in the war and gives undue credit to the Jews
and exaggerates the Jewish deaths at the expense of other more deserving
minorities such as the Ukrainian people.

    As incredible as it may sound, if it can be proven beyond a shadow of a
doubt that the Jews themselves were responsible for the excessive and insane
bombing policies of the Americans and the British over Germany in World War
II, then that would mean that the Jews themselves are directly responsible
for the incredible numbers or deaths in the Nazi labor camps. For it is an
indisputable fact that what has been called the "atrocities" of the camps did
not occur until after the Allied bombers had destroyed the railway systems
that shipped food and medical supplies to these camps. If the Nazis had been
able to bomb the transportation systems of the Americans and prevent them
from shipping medicine and foodstuffs to the Japanese internees and German
prisoners of war in American concentration camps, then unsanitary living
conditions and malnutrition would certainly have had the same results in
extraordinary numbers of Japanese internees dying from dysentery and cholera.

    But as of this date, not a single American nor British soldier has been
tried for war crimes or crimes against humanity, even though thousands of
such incidents did occur in the American victimization of Japanese, Germans
and people of other nationalities during World War II.

    To fail to present an objective and truthful look at the events of World
War II is to fail to learn from the mistakes of that era. Today, Zionist and
Talmudic organized Jewry knowingly and willfully continue to present and
perpetuate atheistic, Communist propaganda only because it paints the Jews as
the victims of the Nazis. Many courageous Americans such as Senator Taft and
many Supreme Court Justices spoke out against the travesty of justice called
the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials against the leaders of the German government
after World War II.

    "World War II was a war to renew Jewish domination of Germany and Central
Europe and for the maintenance of the power and glory of the British/Jewish
Empire. The conspirators in America, England and France are responsible for
the greatest tragedy the world has ever known and their names will be
dishonored and execrated in history.
    It never would have started had not Roosevelt and the half Jew Bullitt
guaranteed to Britain and France all of America's resources, which meant,
first, repeal of our neutrality act and supplying them with munitions and
bombers without stint; second, in time the extension of unlimited credit;
third the use of our fleet in the Pacific to protect British, French and
Dutch interests; if these did not suffice for victory, then our young men as
air pilots and our fleet to be sent to Europe; and lastly, if World Jewry and
the British/Jewish Empire could not win without them, millions of our lads to
die in Europe's babbles.
    The premeditated killing of human beings by another, save in self
defense, is murder, a crime against Christianity, morality, humanity, and
civilization, and this applies with greatest guilt to the wholesale slaughter
by one nation of the people of another who have not attacked or harmed them.
After this illegal, secret plot was negotiated, Roosevelt, the Jews and the
war-mongers of this country, of England and France sought to overthrow the
Chamberlain government and to replace it with the Jews Churchill, Eden,
Hore-Belisha and Duff Cooper.
    They plotted to get Bonnet out of the French Cabinet and to substitute
the Jews Reynaud, Blum and Mandel. The ardent but unsuccessful courtship of
Stalin and Soviet Russia was insisted upon by Roosevelt, World Jewry and
war-mongers of America, England and France.
    One of the reasons for the Roosevelt/Eden plot to overthrow the
Chamberlain government and remove Bonnet from the French Cabinet was because
they would not agree to pay the price Stalin demanded to encircle and defeat
Germany. At Roosevelt's and the Jews' insistence, England and France
guaranteed the boundaries of Poland in order to encircle Germany and renew
Jewish control. This guarantee of the boundaries of Poland was the direct
cause of World War II, it knowingly necessitated it." (War! War! War!, by
Cincinnatus, pp. 188- 189)

    Many courageous and patriotic Americans knew that the so- called war
crimes and the changes against the German government officials were nothing
more than Communist propaganda designed to blame the Germans for many
Communist atrocities that Stalin had engineered and perpetrated. It is
certainly un-American to be afraid of the truth, and no truth-loving American
can possibly stand by and watch the Communist propaganda of World War II
continue to be taught in our public school systems.

    Today, fifty years after Adolf Hitler, there is hardly a week or a day
that goes by without an anti-Nazi film or propaganda movie being shown on
television channels that one would think they should be no longer political.
Moreover, the Jews have made Nazi memorabilia and Nazi member organizations a
big business in America. No true American can afford to stand by and allow
the Communist, Jewish Zionist, Antichrist Jews to continue imposing their
version of history and their atheistic values upon what was once a White
Christian Nation.

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Subject: [13texan] Holohoax 4 by Willie Martin
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:01:41 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

From: Willie Martin 
    If the holocaust is to be discussed in our schools as legitimate history,
then let it be discussed objectively and truthfully, based upon fact instead
of Jewish fiction that is designed only to protect the reputation of Joe
Stalin and the Jews behind the Bolshevik revolution of world Communism. To
insist upon fair play is truly an American idea. If we must hear the Jews
side, let us also hear the Arabs' side. We Americans are innately hateful
toward anyone who seeks to rob us of our freedom of thought, but today that
is exactly what the atheistic, Communistic Jews, and Hollywood one-worlders
are seeking to do.

    Stifling freedom of speech through their Communist tactic of so- called
political correctness, they seek to brainwash the next generation of
Americans through drug abuse and relentless Communist propaganda. They seek
to create a police state wherein freedom of speech is completely stifled, and
when freedom of speech is a crime, soon freedom of thought also becomes a
crime.

    The Jews, through the ACLU and other Communist Jewish front groups have,
when it is convenient, defended freedom of speech as long as it is a
Communist or a dissenter seeking to tear down White America. But when the
shoe is on the other foot, they will not defend the rights of White,
Christian Americans, which our forefathers fought for and embodied in the
Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The Jews are currently using federal and
state money that they have conned form the American people to fund their one-
sided Communist views of World War II. So, in effect, every state sponsored
holocaust program is but another Jewish con game designed to rob the working
man and the American tax payer, while enslaving these White people's children
into Jewish Socialism.

    Think of this travesty of freedom in these terms. A group of atheistic,
Christ-hating, Devil-worshipers comes to your school system and demands the
right to teach your children their God- hating, atheistic values while making
no secret of their ulterior motives to undermine your Christian values and
your authority as a parent. In addition to this, these same Devil-worshiping
pagans claim that Nero of Rome was right to burn the Christians on crosses in
his nocturnal garden and to slaughter Christian women and children by
throwing them to the vicious, man-eating lions of the Roman circus. What if
these same people dared to say that the Jews were absolutely correct in
putting Jesus Christ to death and viciously murdering Him? Would you, as a
God-fearing person speak up against such an obvious abuse of American freedom?

    Well, that is exactly what the jews are doing throughout the school
systems of America by sending their Jewish evangelists into your classrooms
to preach the establishment of their holocaust religious cult. That is
exactly what the Jews have made of the Jewish deaths of WW II. They have used
the Nazi work camps as an excuse to extort billions of dollars from the
American tax payer, all in support of their Antichrist, world domination
philosophy known as Zionism, and all for the purpose of supporting the
illegal state of so- called Israel in Palestine.

    We Americans have no objection to the truth, but we do object to liars
and to half-truths being promoted in our school systems for the express
purpose of manipulating and brainwashing our children. Let us remember that
the school teachers and the Jews who sponsor these programs do not invite the
local Neo-Nazis to defend their position, nor do they invite the scholars of
The Institute for Historical Review, whose address is POB 1306, Torrance, CA
90505. They only present one-sided arguments based upon fabrications and lies
first put forward by the Stalinist Communist regime, namely the Jew head of
the KGB Lavrenty Beria, mentioned earlier.

    There are many honest and competent historians who disagree with the
Communist line of propaganda. One outstanding example of orchestrated,
modern, Jewish propaganda is the Hollywood versions of the Simon Wiesenthal
stories. Mr. Wiesenthal is portrayed by the Jewish Hollywood crowd as the
foremost Nazi hunter in the world. He is literally presented as a Jewish
hero, and as a wonderful humanitarian, when in fact, the man is a liar and a
hypocrite. He has openly lied and confused the truth, but our children have
never been taught the truth about this lying Jew agent, who even admitted
that he was fighting for the Communists. What our children are taught is that
the Simon Wiesenthal Center was named after this "great man," and that two
American presidents awarded this liar with honorary awards for his so-called
work in tracking down Nazis.

    Our children are not taught that this man has consistency lied in his
report about what he saw during WW II. In 1948, this lying Jew testified
under oath that from 1939-1941 he was a "Soviet Chief engineer working in
Lvov and Odessa." But in his very own biography, he claims that he was a
"mechanic in a factory that produced bedsprings" during those same years.
This example may seem trivial, but Wiesenthal has lied about far worse than
this. For example, Wiesenthal published a book in 1946 in which he presented
his view of history, which he supposedly obtained facts  from the confession
of Mauthausen Commandant Franz Zieris.

    In his book, he claimed that four million people were gassed at this
camp. Later, he told USA Today in April, 1983, "I was one of 34 prisoners
alive out of 150,000 who had been put there." Not only did he lie twice about
this number, he lied a third time in his own autobiography, in which he
wrote: "almost 3,000 prisoners died in Maunhausen after the Americans
liberated us on May 5, 1945."

    This is just like a Communist Jew to lie when it suits his needs. Worse,
Wiesenthal has been allowed to teach our children these lies, without any
questioning. Why has this Jew, who has consistently lied in print, never been
questioned? Why have our children not been presented with the fact that this
man has been consistently proven to be a liar?

    Finally, the most flagrant propaganda that has been spread by Wiesenthal
is the "human soap" myth. The myth is that Germans used the fat form dead
Jews to make soap. Wiesenthal wrote in Der Neue Weg, an Austrian Jew paper
that 900,000 dead Jews were shipped to a factory and used to make soap.
Wiesenthal claimed that the letters RIF on German soap made at that time
stood for Rein juedisches Fett, which means "Pure Jewish Fat." In fact, the
letters stood for Reichstelle Fuer industrielle Fettversorgung or "National
Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning." In fact, no historians have ever
acknowledged this claim to be true. It was merely a fabrication of Mr.
Wiesenthal a proven lier.

    One example of this is the difficulties of the historian David Irving,
who after once being persuaded of the facts, changed many of his views
regarding the history of World War II. Mr. Irving found it virtually
impossible to find a publisher to publish his new-found convictions, which
contradicted the Jewish version of World War II.

    Yet, the hysterical Jewish exaggerations became so blatant that the more
sane Jews have found it necessary to admit there could have been no more than
3.5 million Jews to have died in that period of time, and certainly not the
exaggerated 6 million. The following is reprinted from the New York Post,
March 26, 1992:

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Subject: [13texan] The Talmudic racists
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:13:39 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com



The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

The Protocols of The Learned Elders of Zion

    Chapter Five

    I have briefly mentioned The Protocols which were a draft, or copy, of
the original manuscript. Many Jews, and their Christian Zionist cohorts,
contemptuously attempt to shrug the Protocols aside as being counterfeit.
But, as we pointed out earlier, in order to have a counterfeit, there must
have been an original. The more valuable the original, the more care the
counterfeiter uses to make the copy as exact as possible.

    There is no proof I can offer which will settle the question. Much
greater minds than mine have argued the pros and cons. However, if "the proof
is in the pudding," and "by their fruits ye shall know them," I take the
position that for over 90 years we have been witnessing their fulfillment.
They have used it as a blueprint for their world conquest and have followed
its every instruction. If these documents were an anti-Jewish forgery as the
Talmudists claim, there is no doubt they would have made supposed Jewish
authorship as clear as possible. Instead, they have taken great pains to
cover up any Jewish connections. Only once or twice, in the entire lengthy
document, does the word Jew appear. However, there is little doubt that the
document was directed against those people the Jews call Gentiles, or in the
more picturesque Yiddish, "goy" (in the singular) and "goyim" in the plural.
With the exception of a few instances, the only distinctive racial term used
is "Gentile."

    If a forger had written this during the last decade, there might have
been reason to believe it was anti-Semitic malice (even though very few of
the people we now call Jews can qualify as Semites). But take note that this
document was written over 90 years ago, before the term anti-Semitic was
coined by the Talmudists.

    The Sixth Protocol states: That the true situation shall not be noticed
by the Gentiles prematurely, we will mask it by a pretended effort to serve
the working classes and promote great economic features for which an active
propaganda will be carried out by our economic theories.

    The Protocols were very probably never written in manuscript form, but
were notes taken from the minutes of the World Zionist Conference held
somewhere in France or Switzerland near the end of the nineteenth century.
The secret power of the Talmudists has developed as they have manipulated
world governments into placing the secret government of a country in the
hands of a few men of Jewish faith. No nations in the world are so completely
under Zionist power as those of England, Canada and America; the three
leading true Israelite nations.

    The Protocols, in agreement with international Zionist leaders look on
the dispersion of the Jews as a blessing in disguise. In The Protocols they
say: This has brought us to the threshold of universal rule.

    In the Ninth Protocol, they explain in detail how they have taken over
the control of one Israel nation after another. I quote: In order not to
destroy prematurely the Gentile institutions, we have laid our efficient
hands on them and grasped the springs of the mechanisms they formed in a
strict and just order, but we have replaced them with a liberal disorganized
and arbitrary administration. We have tampered with jurisprudence (their
justice system), the franchise (right to vote), their press, freedom of the
person and most important of all, education and culture which is the
cornerstone of their free existence.

    We have misled, stupefied, and demoralized their youth by means of
education in the principles and theories patently false, but which we have
inspired above existing laws, without actually changing them, but by
distorting them through contradictory interpretations. We have created
something stupendous in the way of results.

    Let's take a moment to analyze this Protocol. As an intelligent person,
answer if you can the question of how this document, if it were a forgery as
the Jews and their allies claim, could so accurately describe what is
happening now, over 90 years after it was written?

    The laws of Anglo-Saxondom, the foundation of the modern Israel nations
known as Christendom, have always been laid on the strict and just order of
God's Ten Commandments. These have indeed been replaced by a teaching in both
education and religion which says there are no absolutes. There is no such
thing as "black" or "white," only shades of gray. In other words, situation
ethics which makes a thing right or wrong according to the circumstances.
This teaching has released a Pandora's box of evils upon our society, not the
least of which is our modern acceptance of homosexuality as an alternate life
style when we know that the Word of God says all those who practice this
aberration are worthy of death.

    A close look at the Anti-Defamation League of the B'nai B'rith, which
acts as an unlicensed agent of a foreign government (the State of Israel) and
is allowed to operate unhindered in the United States, has for all intents
and purposes become unofficially an arm of the U.S. Justice Department. If
you do not want to accept this fact, then ask yourself why every time you
read about government action against a Christian patriot, you will find the
thoughts of some official from the A.D.L. This Talmudic organization has been
responsible for most of the para-military laws enacted in many of our states
which are aimed at Christian patriot groups. The Jewish Defense League, the
armed branch of the A.D.L., is allowed to operate unhindered in most of these
states.

    A close look at the courts of our land will show a preponderance of
Jewish judges, although Jews make up less than 3% of our population. They
also have almost complete control of the American Bar Association, and
lawyers who do not operate under their control are regularly blackballed in
America's courts. Under Talmudic jurisdiction, America's courts have become
noted for their protection of criminal rights, while the law abiding citizen
is often persecuted on the slightest pretext.

    We have already discussed Jewish control of the media. Analyze education
and see the stranglehold the Talmudists have on the National Education
Association and on our culture. Ask yourself why Christian Americans have
been forced to subsidize pornography in the arts through the National
Endowment for the Arts. This is a Jewish controlled organization which seems
to specialize in downgrading Jesus Christ and Christianity at our expense.

    We witness this same downgrading of morals in the music industry which is
almost 100% Talmudic controlled. And, it has produced stupendous results. If
you don't want to believe this, look at the screaming hordes of teenagers and
college youth who are completely mesmerized by these so-called musical Pied
Pipers.

    By changing the meaning of the Constitution, we now find it acceptable
for protesters to burn the American flag. But we must never say anything
derogatory about the State of Israel and its ambitious reign of terror in the
Mid-East regardless of their threat to the Moslems or our Christian way of
life. By the time this book is in print, we may even have "hate laws" which
will hinder you from telling the truth about those who seek to destroy
America.

    The method of the Protocols can be summed up in one word: DISINTEGRATION;
the undoing of everything worthwhile in order to create chaos and thereby
gain control of the people. So The Protocols teach that in order to gain
control of public opinion it is first necessary to confuse it. This is
successfully done through control of the media.

    Truth is not confusing, but the liberalism which has been sown in this
country by the Talmudists is confusing because it is based upon a foundation
of man's shifting values. There are no absolutes: there is no truth. Take a
nation, a church, or a family in which liberalism has been sown and you can
split it into fractions which will ultimately destroy it. There was a time in
America when the family unit was strong and America was strong. But the enemy
cleverly led both parents and children into believing that Humanism was the
way to go. As a result, in both children and parents, Christian and
non-Christian, we have developed the idea of "doing our own thing," "if it
feels good, do it," and "there is no tomorrow, so live for today," no matter
the consequences. This has led our Israel people into the almost unsolvable
mess we find ourselves in today. Regardless of whether we like it or not,
there is only one answer and that is returning to doing things God's way.
(Again, I call your attention to Deuteronomy 28.) White Christian Americans
need to learn quickly that "secularization" is preparation for "Judaization."
That is the Talmudic Way!

    The Talmudic program almost always starts off with flabby tolerance of
anything and everything. The phraseology used is a dependable Talmudic
weapon. Protocol V states: In all times people have accepted words for acts.

    This is the basis on which they operate. Men and women like to be
believers in something, and if you can convince them that being broad-minded
is good, you can control their thinking in other liberal channels. As a
result of this thinking, we have seen in the business world the prostitution
of service into profit. There was a time when the American businessman was
interested in putting out a top quality product, and he would often work long
hours and put forth great effort to reach this goal. Then the Talmudic
rationale of "the gelt is, the thing!" (Gelt is Yiddish for profit or money.)
"Get what you can with the least amount of effort and time." Since American
business has assumed this thinking, quality and pride of workmanship have
taken a back seat and we are witnessing a decline in the profit picture. This
is one of the major reasons the American automobile industry has had
difficulty coping with that of Japan's where the worker is still taught pride
in workmanship. The Talmudic principle is, "How much profit can we squeeze
out of this product," not, "How can we make it better?"

    This thinking causes the enviable art of good management to degenerate
into the exploitation of those whom they employ in order to gain more
profits. It means reckless confusion among managers and dangerous unrest
among workers. It results in the breakdown of our Anglo-Saxon work ethic and
the substitution of a foreign ideology. And the genealogy of this foreign
ideology is rooted in The Babylonian Talmud as we shall see.

    Protocol X states: We will wear everyone out by dissensions, animosities,
feuds, famine, inoculations of diseases and want, until the Gentiles have no
way of escape except by an appeal to our power and money.

    The Kehillah is the most potent power in the American Jewish community.
It is an organization which wields worldwide power and intimidates Jews into
doing its bidding. The Kehillah in New York City constitutes the essential
part of the Jewish government in the United States, which in recent years has
often been referred to as Z.O.G. (Zionist Occupational Government) and is the
center of American Jewry. It is the whispering gallery of American Jews where
whispering drives are set in motion to break and destroy those Christian
goyim who do not bow to their will.

    Under the Babylonian governmental system, the Kehillah was the power and
protectorate of the Jewish community. It operates under the laws of The
Talmud.  With the conversion of the Turko-Mongolian Khazars to Judaism in the
8th century A.D., they immigrated heavily into Eastern Europe. The Kehillah
moved with them to that area and eventually on to the United States centering
in New York City in the 19th century. Today, New York is to world Jewry what
Mecca is to the Moslem.

    The Kehillah has its representatives in all Jewish organizations such as
the Central Conference of American Rabbis; Eastern Council of Reformed
Rabbis; Independent Order of B'nai B'rith, with its harlot daughter the
Anti-Defamation League; the Independent Order of the Free Sons of Israel; the
Federation of American Zionists, and many others. It encompasses all Jews
orthodox, liberal, reformed, and atheistic - apostate Jews, poor Jews, rich
Jews, law-abiding Jews, communist revolutionaries, criminal Jews, all come
under its control. They are banded together, so they claim, to protect Jewish
rights! But what rights are the Jews deprived of in America? There are none!
This expression is nothing but a substitute for a campaign which seeks to
deny Christian rights, in Christian America. Again, this is a central
teaching of The Talmud.

    The American Jewish Committee has divided the United States into twelve
regions, and every state belongs to a district, which has as its head the
most powerful Jewish representative in that region. The capital of the world,
and that of the United States as far as Jewish affairs are concerned, is New
York City which just happens to also be the seat of the United Nations
government. It is the home of most of the anti-American, anti-Christian
propaganda and pro-Jewish hysteria that sweeps this nation periodically.

    The Jews have a free reign to handle their own affairs in the United
States. They have their own calendar, they keep their own holidays, observe
their own form of worship, exist on their own dietary laws (which are now in
the process of being forced on an unwilling Gentile population), and they do
all of the above, and much more, without molestation from our government and
without the slightest question of whether they are right or wrong.

    But the non-Jew, especially the Christian, must act according to Jewish
dictates or he is immediately accused of infringing on Jewish rights. This is
borne out by Christ being removed from Christmas and Easter, the cross being
removed from our public buildings, prayers taken out of our schools and
morality out of our government. Examine the upcoming hate laws which are
being foisted on our Congress by Jewish organizations. Canada already has
hate laws, and you must not say or do anything which will hurt the feelings
of a Jew or other alien. But it is not considered a crime for a black man to
degrade a white, or for a Jew to blaspheme our Savior Jesus Christ. That is
their right under this one-sided law.

    There is no such thing as anti-Semitism in America, except as it applies
to the Jew against the Arab. But, there is a tremendous amount of
anti-Gentilism and anti-Christianity which is deliberately being employed by
the Talmudists in their drive for world power. Most American Christians fail
to realize that most public disturbances,  strikes and political confusion do
not just happen out of a clear blue sky. They are planned that way. A few
years ago the Jewish community of Skokie, Illinois, was thrown into a total
frenzy by a Nazi group who applied for a permit to parade through town.
Nothing was ever said on national TV, or in the news, when it was discovered
that the "thug" who paraded in Nazi uniform as the leader of the Nazi group
was a young Jew from the Jewish Defense League. It has been proven that many
incidents described as vicious anti-Semitism, such as desecration of
synagogues and Jewish cemeteries, have been committed by Jewish thugs. This
is a means they use to keep the little Jew in line with orders from the
Kehillah, and to keep the general public softened up over the ugliness being
perpetrated against the noble, innocent Jew.

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Subject: [13texan] ZIONIST WAR AGAINST HUMANITY
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:26:48 -0600
From: Ed Kadach 
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

ZIONIST WAR AGAINST HUMANITY

                 "QUEBEC'S ( scalp hunting ) IROQUOIS
                 ARE KIND HUMANISTS COMPARED WITH THE
                 CRUELTY OF THE JEWS."

                 The Great Frenchman Voltaire in 1753.
                 ( Volume 17 of his Collected Works ).

I. WALLSTREET'S TALMUDIC
SUCCESS RELIGION -
UNVEILED.

Bill Clintons Gouvernment consists 1999 of
almost 80% Jews, Zionists. No matter if they
are religous or non-religious, deep in their heart
and mind, they are Jews, Khasars, and will
follow the perverted ,religion" we have
described below.

JESUS CHRIST, the much revered founder of
Christianity is called a 'mamser' ( son of a
whore ) or in other places of the Talmud he is
called a 'Talui' ( that man, who was hanged' ) or
a 'Scheker' ( a swindler ). Holy Mary, the divine
mother of Jesus Christ is referred to in the
Talmud as a 'Sabbath Schickse' ( one, doing her
work on  Saturdays when Jews must not work )
or 'Scharia' ( dung, excrement, German Dreck )
or worse still 'Stada' ( a prostitute ).

Young, religious Spaniards, who nurture a
special adoration for Holy Mary, have been
known to draw their stiletto over these Rushdie
style  blasphemies against Madre Santa Maria.
However, the public appeal of the 'mamser' was
so strong, that Christianity became Rome's
state religion, and Emperor Constantine
ordered the image of Jesus Christ to be on all
national flags.

In 553 A.D. Emperor Justinian banned the
Talmud throughout the Roman Empire,
saying:" There is nothing Holy in the Talmud."
The list of papal condemnations of the Talmud
goes through the centuries. Subsequently,
where ever Jews turned up in Europe, mothers
would tear their kids from the sand box and
lock the house doors. The rumor of deicide ( the
killing of a God ), not a particularly enviable
charge in  Christ-infested Europe, was around
these bearded men, when they wallowed in long
black coats over the countryside like restless
nomads, keeping their eyes hidden behind their
shylocks.
Only in 1965 did the Vatican - pressured with
the holocaust allegation - lift the 1600 years old
condemnation decree on Talmudic Jewry.

Few people realize that today's Jews are divided
into two distinct  racial groups. Their majority
of 85 % are 'Ashkenazim', Asiatic Jews,
relating to Judah. They are not the descendants
of the 12 Israelite  tribes but are a Turco-
Mongoloid people, who had a makeshift state
entity in the 7th century after the fall of Rome
between eastern Turkey and South Russia,
called the Khazzars. They were converts to
Judaism. The name Khazzar relates to their
rhythmic body shake (Chazzar ), while they
pray and wail. This was imitated by their black
slaves in America and later called spiritual
Jazz.

True Israelites can be traced among Sephardic
Jews, who escaped Rome's persecution via
northern Africa, and also among the tribes
which fled straight into western Europe. During
the 8th century some 120,000 were forced to
convert to Christianity by Charleman, whom
both, French and Germans regard to as their
first common emperor.

According to unconfirmed Anglo-Saxon
theories, these were the sons of Isaac, later
called Isacsons', whereby the letter I is silent in
Hebrew, thus meaning Saxons.

The key guide to practical performance of
Judaism is the Talmud, a compilation of Jewish
religious ethics written by various Rabbii over
two millenia. Through the centuries, the
Talmud's outright incitement  to slander and
even murder of Christians, has brought Jews in
conflict  with numerous Popes and secular
authorities. This 63 volume works, now being
reduced to 38 by taking the slander out - as
agreed upon with the Vatican in 1965 - goes
into the very  detail when it describes the
'treatment' of Christians, Muslims and
other Goyim ( non-Jews ).
Thus, in sub-paragraph Zahar ( 1.25b) it
says:

 - Christians must be spoken of with contempt
 - Good must not be done to Christians
 - Christian Saints are Kedoschin (female men)
 - Harm must be done to the work of Christians
 - Christians to be harmed in legal matters
 - Jews must pretend to be followers of mamser
        ( in order ) to harm Christians.
 - The life of a Goy ( non-Jew ) belongs to Jews
        including all his belongings.

The last named Talmud arrogance led enraged
European Christians to force Talmud Jews into
scrubbing the pavements of Vienna's Franz-
Joseph-Allee using tooth brushes. The list
continues to outright incitement to murder
Christians. More to follow later.
-------------------------------------------

No doubt it is high time that the jews start
scrubbing the pavements of our cities once
again.

Racialist regards,

Ed Kadach

"All truth passes through three stages. First,
it is ridiculed; second it is violently opposed;
and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
---Schopenhauer

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Subject: [13texan] Talmudic Principles
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:28:04 EDT
From: SNEADSTER@aol.com
Reply-To: 13texan@egroups.com
To: 13texan@egroups.com

The follow is an article that Willie Martin wrote that I felt the necessity
to share with all of you at this point. Some of the parts of the Talmud are
repeated from what I posted but I didn't want to change what he has worked so
hard to write.
Michael Snead
14/88

Law Enforcement is Blind to Jewish Criminals

    A close check of the FBI's annual crime report will show that acts of
violence by the Jewish Defense League and other militant Jewish groups out
number those of the far right fringe by eight-to-one. In most cases where
Jews are involved, the authorities have strange lapses of memory when it
comes to justice. Most of the violence on college campuses during the Vietnam
War were communist planned and were carried out under Jewish leadership. Most
of the anti-nuclear demonstrations and the violence of certain
environmentalist groups is planned violence under Jewish leadership. I saw
this from personal experience as I worked the lecture circuit of the colleges
during the 1970's.

    The vast amount of communist propaganda literature being produced and
distributed in the United States amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars
annually. It is the work of Jewish authors who describe in glowing terms the
throngs of liberty-loving aliens who want to come to the United States. The
problem is, once they are here they do not want to abide by our laws, but
desire to set up their own systems within our system. In Southern California
we see little Mexicos, little Hong Kongs, Vietnamese villages, Iranian
communities and East  Indian communities. The billboards, advertisements and
signs are in their native languages, and just try to understand their
employees if you are found in need of gas or other services in their ghettos.

    It was the Jewess Emma Lazarus who penned the propaganda we find engraved
on the base of the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor: "Give me your poor,
your tired, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." And American
idiots, especially those of the Christian faith, opened the doors to the
refuse of the world and today we are paying for it in the degeneration of our
youth and the degrading of our educational system. We are paying for it
through diseases which have been hitherto unknown in this country and through
rampant crime and poverty among our people. We are paying for it through the
nose with our tax dollars which provide welfare to these people who either
cannot, or will not, work. The financial burden is breaking our backs.

    An honest look at America's problems will show that it is the Talmudic
element which offers the most violent resistance to the Christian American
way of life. The term "melting pot" was given to us by the Jew Zangwill and
was something our founding fathers never envisioned for this country which
had been founded as a refuge for white Christians seeking freedom to worship
God. Other religions were allowed to come here and receive protection, but
they were never given the lawful right to change our way of life to conform
to their heathen ideas. It is very possible that there are more Jewish
communists in America today than there are in the USSR since they are all
controlled from their one-world Kehilla center in New York.

    Most of our modern-day church leaders have succumbed to the Scriptural
confusion of mistaking Judah and the Jews for Israel. They completely reject
the words of our risen Lord in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 where He warned:
"...them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of
Satan."

    These church leaders, often acting from motives of self-interest, have
misinterpreted the ancient writings that relate to Israel and Judah, and have
made Judah, the hub around which their prophetic teachings rotate. They have,
for all intents and purposes, forgotten or discarded their own roots and
prefer to idolize those who are imposters. These churchmen fail to consider
the fact that  Judah has been in constant warfare with Israel for at least
2500 years. When they first came on the Scriptural scene in II Kings 16:6,
about 742 B.C., lo and behold they were fighting against Israel.

    To confuse the matter even more, most religionists fail to take the fact
into account that at least 80% of the modern-day Jews are not of Judah at
all, but are of Turko-Mongolian racial background from Eastern Europe.
According to their own historians they were converted to Judaism in the 8th
century A.D. Every leader of the modern State of Israel has come from this
heathen background and is known as an Ashkenazi Jew.

    People often ask why Jewry, which on the economic front is international
capitalism in disguise, should favor Bolshevism, which is the announced enemy
of capitalism. Why would a New York City Jew such as Jacob Schiff pour
millions of dollars into the coffers of the Bolsheviks during the Russian
Revolution?

    With every fact of history against them, there are still hordes of
political and religious leaders in America who insist that Communism was not
Jewish in origin and that the Jews have been persecuted in the Soviet Union.
The USSR is the only nation in the world where anti-Semitism is punishable by
death! Today we find these intellectual idiots attempting to make hay for
their warped ideas by stating former Premier Gorbachev is violently
anti-Semitic. Yet the facts prove that under Gorbachev, international Jews
have become the only millionaires in Russia and that international communism
in Russia, as well as the remainder of the world, is nothing but a facsimile
of international Jewish Talmudism. If you are one of those who refuses to
accept this truth, then explain why the only openly wealthy class in Russia,
who have elaborate dachas on the shores of the Black Sea at Odessa, are Jews.

    As late as 1983, under the guidance of Premier Andropov, a Jew, 23 out of
25 members of the Politburo (the Soviet ruling clique) were Jews. Every top
member of the military and of the Soviet police, were Jews. What the present
composition is, I do not know, but I do know that in spite of all the
propaganda to the contrary in the American media, Russian Jews have received
favored treatment over Baptists and Pentecostal Christians.

    Why is it that we have been kept in darkness in America? Could it be
because all our information comes to us through the Jewish telegraph service
which is the Associated Press of worldwide Zionism. It might be worthwhile to
think about this for a bit.

    The illegal method by which the Zionists in Palestine forcibly
confiscated Arab land has been approved by our Zionist Occupational
Government and by the wolves in sheep's clothing who stand behind America's
pulpits declaring these bandits to be God's Chosen People. Instead of giving
honor to the men who fill these pulpits, patriotic Christians should hold
them in the utmost contempt because they are traitors not only to their
country, but of more importance, to their God. They have become paid
prostitutes of Zionism who, according to Isaiah 56:11: .. all look to their
own way, everyone for his gain ... These include national TV favorites such
as Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggart, Jack Van Impe, etc.

    Palestine has often been called the "center of the earth" because the
power which has controlled Palestine in the past has been the one which
controlled the world. Palestine has been the key to world military strategy
and trade. It is located strategically between three continents, and it lends
itself to dreams of future glory, as the almost unlimited mineral and oil
reserves of this area are astronomical.

    The native Arabs of Palestine were promised protection from Jewish
expansion first by British General Allenby when he liberated Jerusalem from
the Turks in 1918, and then by the Balfour Declaration, the San Remo
Conference and by President Wilson in his Fourteen Points. But the Talmudists
said: "Let the Arabs go. Let them give up their land to us. We want it!" Oh,
what a delightful Jewishness there is in this declaration. But today, the
world is becoming alarmed at the seeds of Jewish aggression in Palestine and
are beginning to realize that this could well be the catalyst which would set
up Armageddon. In the meantime, the fundamentalists and evangelicals say they
would welcome this catastrophe, not even comprehending the consequences of
their words. Not one fundamentalist leader in a thousand understands the
vastness and terror of Armageddon. Of course they don't worry about this
because they teach that they will not be here, but will be transported by
Jesus to some place in the sky where, from the battlements of heaven, they
will watch as the rest of us are destroyed. They teach this without the
slightest Scriptural authority, and woe be to them when their church members
discover they have been lied to!

    I could fill more pages speaking about Talmudic control of the media, TV
and Hollywood. As was pointed out in detail in a previous chapter, all major
newspapers, TV networks, nine out of ten studios in Hollywood, the major
magazines - all are Jewish owned and/or controlled. What it boils down to is
almost complete control over the news which is spoon-fed daily to the
American people.

    Add to this the control of the publishing houses and the National
Education Association and you have the makings of a confused America, just as
the Talmudists said it would be. The Talmudic idea of education can be seen
in the following remark made by Terry Herndod, former Executive Director of
the National Education Association: The ultimate goal of the NEA is to tap
the legal, political and economic powers of the U.S. Congress. We want
leaders and staff with sufficient clout that they may roam the halls of
Congress and collect votes to re-order the priorities of the U.S.A.

    The propagandists of Hollywood are free to make Christian clergymen
anything from seducers, to safe crackers, to village idiots and get away with
it. But a Jew must never be depicted in a critical light, no matter how
dastardly his acts. Their viciousness towards Jesus Christ and Christianity
can be seen in the recent blasphemous movie, The Last Temptation of Christ,
which depicted our Lord and Savior as an immoral man. This movie was made
successful by the hordes of so-called Christians who have made Talmudism
successful in America. It has been Christianity that has supported the movie
industry, the Jew liquor monopoly, the Jew tobacco industry, Jewish
pornography and prostitution - everything which has been used to tear down our
Christian heritage.

    In Protocol IV, we read: This is the reason why it is indispensable for
us to undermine all faith, to tear out of the minds of the goyim the very
principle of Godhead, and the spirit, and to put in its place arithmetical
calculations and material needs.

    Protocol XVII: We have long past taken care to discredit the priesthood
of the goyim and thereby to ruin their mission on earth which in these days
might still be a great hindrance to us. Freedom of conscience has been
declared everywhere, so that now only years divide us from the moment at the
complete wrecking at that Christian religion.. ..(Emphasis added)

    In the communist textbook Psychopolitics, which was written in the USSR
in 1933 and was the blueprint for the takeover of America, we read on page
52: We have battled in America since the century's turn to bring to nothing
any and all Christian influences, and we are succeeding. While we today seem
to be kind to the Christian, remember we have yet to influence the Christian
world to our ends. When this done, we will have an end to them everywhere.

    You must work until religion is synonymous with insanity. You must work
until the officials of city, county and state governments will not think
twice before they pounce upon religious groups as public enemies. You wonder
why hate laws which discriminate against Christians are being passed by a
Zionist-dominated Congress? Here is your answer. >It is the Talmudic
principle in operation.<

    I could go into the jungle music of modern rock and roll which is
controlled by Jews. We often wonder why our modern youth have degenerated
into savagery, yet Christian leaders have refused to attack the Jewish source
of this savagery. They are hamstrung by the teaching of their church that
these imposters are God's Chosen and must be protected at all cost and that
to confront a Jew is to bring God's curse upon them. Maybe these clergy and
their parishioners should read II Chronicles 19:2 which says: ... Shouldest
thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lord? Therefore is wrath
upon these from before the Lord.

    Sixty years ago, Werner Sombart, a pro-Jewish author in his book, Jews
and Modern Capitalism. predicted: If conditions in America continue to
develop along the same lines as in the last generation, if the immigration
statistics and the same proportion of births among the nationalities in the
U.S. remain the same, our imagination can picture the United States in 50 or
100 years hence, as a land inhabited only by the Slavs, negroes, and Jews,
wherein the Jew will naturally occupy the position of leadership. How
accurate his predictions have become. Whites are about to become a minority
in the country they founded and brought to greatness. Why? Because they have
been led to compromise with, and bow down to, the heathen attributes of
Talmudism.

    Professional sports in America have come completely under Jewish control
to the point where they are pricing themselves out of existence. At the same
time they fulfill the Talmudic ambition to get the goy occupied by sports so
that he has little time or energy in which to do the important things. This
is a Talmudic principle.

    In Protocol XIII we read: In order to distract the people who may be too
troublesome from discussions of questions of the political... In order that
the masses themselves may not guess what they are about we further distract
them with amusements, games, pastimes, passions, people's palaces... Soon we
shall begin through the press to propose competitions in art, in sport of all
kinds: these interests will finally distract their minds from questions in
which we should find ourselves compelled to oppose them.

    Why this mad emphasis on sports? It is to take our minds off essential
issues and prepare us for Talmudic takeover!

    The Jewish element has completely controlled boxing for years, and has
taken the sport of clean wrestling, which was a test of skill and strength,
and turned it into a disgusting orgy. We now see mud wrestling spectacles
between near nude members of the female sex and the orgy of painted heathens
groping and grunting their way in and out of the ropes.

    When anyone exposes the Talmudic control over any segment of our
existence, the Jew becomes an inflamed zealot because the Jew cannot tolerate
anything he considers to be criticism. You may criticize a Christian of any
denomination with impunity, and until recently, most nationalities, but the
Jew is sacrosanct (sacred and above criticism). There is not a major
newspaper in America, or a major politician, who dares admit that there is a
Jewish problem. Any discussion, or the laying out of facts, immediately draws
the label of "anti-Semitism," or "hate monger."

    The Jew can call your Lord and Savior a bastard and few will complain,
but show the Jew in his true colors and your expose' will be labeled as "full
of lies, insinuation, prejudice and hatred to instigate suicide."

    As I wrote earlier, the term "anti-Semitic" is a misnomer when applied to
Jews today since the people we now know as Jews have very little, if any,
connection to the forefathers of true Israel. Very few of the people we know
as Jews, with the possible exception of a few Sephardim Jews, can qualify as
being Semites. The vast majority, according to their own historians, are
Ashkenazi Jews of Turko-Mongolian background. Their forebears never set foot
in Palestine, they have not one drop of Semitic blood in their veins, and
they have no legal or moral title or right to the land they claim is theirs
by