The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/l/lockhart.joe/1996/lockhart.0596


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Wed May  1 09:21:50 PDT 1996
Article: 27216 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: The Pissed McGoyVay.. Round 3
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In our last few exchanges, you have made statements
that need addressing.

In article <1996Apr23.162812.8400@wpg.ramp.net>, 
Joe "I wuz Klan, but never inhaled" Lockhart  wrote:

I asked you to provide evidence that I was a member
of any Klan. You refused. Who is the liar McVay? 

McVay in an attempted to question my credibility
called me a liar.

>...or simply because you are a liar? Could that be it, Mr.
>Lockhart?

I asked you THREE times to show me the so-called lie.
You have refused. Why?

You listed the following URL

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-the-liar

I see no lie.

Liar: n. a person who tells lies; a person who says what is 
not true.

What have I said that is not true?

Now, I realize you have a habit of stretching the truth.
Here is an example of how Ken Mc OyVay the Nizkor
NetZee fighter stretches the truth:

 Nizkor FTP file: people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-threat

In an article :
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Ken McVay - the Internet Proselyte (2nd try)
Message-ID: <1995Nov23.072800.22432@wpg.ramp.net>



After giving you some good Bible advice, I offered you this advice:

"You had better repent McVay while you still have time."

As you know, both you and I will one day meet our maker.
This is not a 'threat' as you deemed it. To even call it a threat is so weak, so
feeble even for you, this is a good example of how the likes of
Ken Mc OyVay stretches the truth.

Can you please explain where the threat is? Not to mention I live 2,000 +
miles away from you, perhaps now I'm a threat to National security too??

McVay then asked:

>Are you also a Jew-hating bigot? For, of course, if you are,
>then someone's calling you a Jew-hating bigot hardly
>constitutes libelous behavior. Let's examine your comments
>about Jews, and let the readers decide, shall we, Mr.
>Lockhart?

I replied:
"I hate people who hate Christ, This includes some Jews, some
so-called Christians, anyone who blasphemes His name."

Here are the words of Jesus Christ.:
"He that is not with me is against me;..." Matthew 12:30

" I also hate Proselytes McOyVay, so what
does that make me? A Proselyte-hating bigot???"

McVay's reply:

"A Christian who hates. What a novel oxymoron."

So, A Black man can hate a White person for 'oppression.'
A Jew can 'hate' people they deem anti-Semitic.
But a Christian cannot 'hate,' again McVay
I suggest you dust-off your Bible, you know the book
you use to level off the couch, and read the following:

"Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in
the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious
unto the remnant of Joseph."  Amos 5:15

"A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."
Ecclesiastes 3:8

Here is God speaking:  (God in the OT is Jesus in the NT)
" I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Psalms 139:22

And even in the New Testament we read:

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13
" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,
[even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
Hebrews 1:9

BTW  McVay, 
Here is a good Bible verse for you:
"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair,
it is a shame unto him? 1 Corinthians 11:14

McVay cut out this part: I wonder why?????

>You have called the Jews "Children of Hell;"

Gee Ken, you should dust off your Bible. It was Jesus that called
Jews the Children of the devil not me:

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh
of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.    John 8:44

Then he asked:

>You have alleged that the Jews "hold the whole world ransom"
>with the "so-called 6 million"; 

I replied:
How many BILLIONS of dollars have the Jews received in
reparations for the so-called holocaust (tm)??

>Tell us, Mr. Lockhart, what is the answer? Be specific,
>please.

I have no Idea, you should know, you're the lackey for the jews, Mc Vay
you should know. Don't you have a Jerry Lewis counter on your
Nizkor sight??

>You refer to the Jews as "cowards";

I stated:
The one time I referred to Jews as cowards was when I was
being attacked when Bernie Furball was hiding behind an
acronym. 

You said:

"I see. One person, this Bernie, "attacked" you, so you called
all Jews cowards. (You wonder why you are called an
antisemite. Interesting.)"

This is another example of how McVay likes to stretches the truth
I have NEVER said "ALL" Jews are cowards. That would be a ridiculous statement.
This is another example of how you stretches the truth.
I defy you to show where I called 'ALL' Jews cowards.

Do I have harsh word for some Jews, sure I do, I have never condemned the
whole community, and I defy you to prove otherwise!!
To say 'all' Jews are bad is as ridiculous as saying 'all' Christians are good.
Don't forget Mc Vay, I question you all the time, does that mean I spew 
anti-Goyism??

You then did another 
Funny how when you cannot call me a liar or anti-Semitic, you just
snip away.
 
>You refer to the ADL as the "anti-defecation league";

And your point is????The ADL is an unregistered 
spy agency for Israel. A spy agency that you're a prostitute for.

You stated:

"Is it now? What proof do you have for this allegation - either
of them, for that matter? Since you claim I am a "prostitute"
for the ADL, perhaps you will tell me how much they pay me,
and prove it, or simply admit that you have no such proof, and
are simply blowing hot air again."

1) National Alliance has a great tract on the ADL and their spying
on Americans. They were caught with police files they were should not
have had. Yes in the end they walk away from all of the charges, this
again only proves to the people how much power they have.

2) The definition of 'prostitute' I'm referring to is this: 3. " a person
who gives up himself or his talents to an unworthy cause." Source.
Gage Canadian Dictionary 1979 page 903

Are you telling us McVay that the information you collect doesn't get
sent some way to the ADL? Come on McVay, I'm not a fool, they need all the
help they can get for their 'fact finding' sheets. I have never stated you're paid by the
ADL, again McVay stretching the truth. Give it a rest...

While we are on the topic of 'paid' can you tell us for the record who contribute
to your 1,500 bucks a month trust fund? Please list all sources.

I have also in the past asked you question that you refuse to answer.

I ask you to tell me (and the world) why Ernst Zundel is a 'threat' to
Canadian security. You have refused.

You have stated in the past the Jim Keegstra was not fired for his beliefs, but that
he was fired for teaching them in class.
Well McVay, what do you have to say now for freedoms in Canada when Malcolm
Ross was clearly fired from his teaching job because of his beliefs? 

Awaiting your reply...


The European Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878 Fax (204) 786-3064





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May  2 03:29:56 PDT 1996
Article: 27216 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: The Pissed McGoyVay.. Round 3
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In our last few exchanges, you have made statements
that need addressing.

In article <1996Apr23.162812.8400@wpg.ramp.net>, 
Joe "I wuz Klan, but never inhaled" Lockhart  wrote:

I asked you to provide evidence that I was a member
of any Klan. You refused. Who is the liar McVay? 

McVay in an attempted to question my credibility
called me a liar.

>...or simply because you are a liar? Could that be it, Mr.
>Lockhart?

I asked you THREE times to show me the so-called lie.
You have refused. Why?

You listed the following URL

http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-the-liar

I see no lie.

Liar: n. a person who tells lies; a person who says what is 
not true.

What have I said that is not true?

Now, I realize you have a habit of stretching the truth.
Here is an example of how Ken Mc OyVay the Nizkor
NetZee fighter stretches the truth:

 Nizkor FTP file: people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-threat

In an article :
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Ken McVay - the Internet Proselyte (2nd try)
Message-ID: <1995Nov23.072800.22432@wpg.ramp.net>



After giving you some good Bible advice, I offered you this advice:

"You had better repent McVay while you still have time."

As you know, both you and I will one day meet our maker.
This is not a 'threat' as you deemed it. To even call it a threat is so weak, so
feeble even for you, this is a good example of how the likes of
Ken Mc OyVay stretches the truth.

Can you please explain where the threat is? Not to mention I live 2,000 +
miles away from you, perhaps now I'm a threat to National security too??

McVay then asked:

>Are you also a Jew-hating bigot? For, of course, if you are,
>then someone's calling you a Jew-hating bigot hardly
>constitutes libelous behavior. Let's examine your comments
>about Jews, and let the readers decide, shall we, Mr.
>Lockhart?

I replied:
"I hate people who hate Christ, This includes some Jews, some
so-called Christians, anyone who blasphemes His name."

Here are the words of Jesus Christ.:
"He that is not with me is against me;..." Matthew 12:30

" I also hate Proselytes McOyVay, so what
does that make me? A Proselyte-hating bigot???"

McVay's reply:

"A Christian who hates. What a novel oxymoron."

So, A Black man can hate a White person for 'oppression.'
A Jew can 'hate' people they deem anti-Semitic.
But a Christian cannot 'hate,' again McVay
I suggest you dust-off your Bible, you know the book
you use to level off the couch, and read the following:

"Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in
the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious
unto the remnant of Joseph."  Amos 5:15

"A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."
Ecclesiastes 3:8

Here is God speaking:  (God in the OT is Jesus in the NT)
" I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
Psalms 139:22

And even in the New Testament we read:

"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13
" Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God,
[even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."
Hebrews 1:9

BTW  McVay, 
Here is a good Bible verse for you:
"Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair,
it is a shame unto him? 1 Corinthians 11:14

McVay cut out this part: I wonder why?????

>You have called the Jews "Children of Hell;"

Gee Ken, you should dust off your Bible. It was Jesus that called
Jews the Children of the devil not me:

"Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh
of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.    John 8:44

Then he asked:

>You have alleged that the Jews "hold the whole world ransom"
>with the "so-called 6 million"; 

I replied:
How many BILLIONS of dollars have the Jews received in
reparations for the so-called holocaust (tm)??

>Tell us, Mr. Lockhart, what is the answer? Be specific,
>please.

I have no Idea, you should know, you're the lackey for the jews, Mc Vay
you should know. Don't you have a Jerry Lewis counter on your
Nizkor sight??

>You refer to the Jews as "cowards";

I stated:
The one time I referred to Jews as cowards was when I was
being attacked when Bernie Furball was hiding behind an
acronym. 

You said:

"I see. One person, this Bernie, "attacked" you, so you called
all Jews cowards. (You wonder why you are called an
antisemite. Interesting.)"

This is another example of how McVay likes to stretches the truth
I have NEVER said "ALL" Jews are cowards. That would be a ridiculous statement.
This is another example of how you stretches the truth.
I defy you to show where I called 'ALL' Jews cowards.

Do I have harsh word for some Jews, sure I do, I have never condemned the
whole community, and I defy you to prove otherwise!!
To say 'all' Jews are bad is as ridiculous as saying 'all' Christians are good.
Don't forget Mc Vay, I question you all the time, does that mean I spew 
anti-Goyism??

You then did another 
Funny how when you cannot call me a liar or anti-Semitic, you just
snip away.
 
>You refer to the ADL as the "anti-defecation league";

And your point is????The ADL is an unregistered 
spy agency for Israel. A spy agency that you're a prostitute for.

You stated:

"Is it now? What proof do you have for this allegation - either
of them, for that matter? Since you claim I am a "prostitute"
for the ADL, perhaps you will tell me how much they pay me,
and prove it, or simply admit that you have no such proof, and
are simply blowing hot air again."

1) National Alliance has a great tract on the ADL and their spying
on Americans. They were caught with police files they were should not
have had. Yes in the end they walk away from all of the charges, this
again only proves to the people how much power they have.

2) The definition of 'prostitute' I'm referring to is this: 3. " a person
who gives up himself or his talents to an unworthy cause." Source.
Gage Canadian Dictionary 1979 page 903

Are you telling us McVay that the information you collect doesn't get
sent some way to the ADL? Come on McVay, I'm not a fool, they need all the
help they can get for their 'fact finding' sheets. I have never stated you're paid by the
ADL, again McVay stretching the truth. Give it a rest...

While we are on the topic of 'paid' can you tell us for the record who contribute
to your 1,500 bucks a month trust fund? Please list all sources.

I have also in the past asked you question that you refuse to answer.

I ask you to tell me (and the world) why Ernst Zundel is a 'threat' to
Canadian security. You have refused.

You have stated in the past the Jim Keegstra was not fired for his beliefs, but that
he was fired for teaching them in class.
Well McVay, what do you have to say now for freedoms in Canada when Malcolm
Ross was clearly fired from his teaching job because of his beliefs? 

Awaiting your reply...


The European Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878 Fax (204) 786-3064





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May  2 03:29:57 PDT 1996
Article: 27362 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.jumppoint.com!news3.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: america is multicultural
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References: <4m099k$rj3@news.xs4all.nl> <4m0e2t$qqm@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <4m0kur$23k@soap.news.pipex.net> <830804398snz@augur.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Caesar  wrote:
>In article <4m0kur$23k@soap.news.pipex.net>
>           le00@dial.pipex.com "S.Sundar" writes:
>
>> I don't live in the US, but what do you think you right-wing pricks should do
>>  about 
>> the multi-racial "problem". Don't you and your Aryan Brothers in the KKK do
>>  Lynching 
>> anymore?
>> 
>> 
>
>The "multi-racial problem" only exists in racists' twisted minds.
>
Oh there is no problem in places like New York or L.A. is there??

We'z just one happy family, so give me mo' money!!

Get your head out of your ass pal!! 



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May  2 03:29:58 PDT 1996
Article: 27363 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.jumppoint.com!news3.ottawa.istar.net!istar.net!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Are all you "Aryan Brothers" Christians
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <1996May1.083222.14524@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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References: <4m0m5c$2sk@soap.news.pipex.net> <830804679snz@augur.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Caesar  wrote:
>In article <4m0m5c$2sk@soap.news.pipex.net>
>           le00@dial.pipex.com "S.Sundar" writes:
>
>> Are all you white power wankers Christians? That would probably explain a lot.
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>They claim to be Christians. But Jesus was a Jew and they hate Jews.
>  
Jesus was not a Jew!! Just another lie.



Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,can.politics
Subject: Re: The Pissed McGoyVay.. Round 3
Summary: 
Expires: 
References: <1996Apr30.205208.23945@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: 
Followup-To: 
Distribution: 
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Keywords: 
Cc: 

In article <1996Apr30.205208.23945@wpg.ramp.net>, Joe Lockhart wrote:

>I asked you to provide evidence that I was a member
>of any Klan. You refused. Who is the liar McVay? 

...and:

>McVay in an attempted to question my credibility
>called me a liar.

I called Mr. Lockhart a liar because he is a liar.

"Klansman Joseph Edward Lockhart was later charged with
mischief for erasing and replacing a telephone answering
machine message at..." (Kinsella, Warren. Web of Hate: Inside
Canada's Far Right Network. HarperPerennial, 52-53)

>>...or simply because you are a liar? Could that be it, Mr.
>>Lockhart?

>I asked you THREE times to show me the so-called lie.
>You have refused. Why?

I have been busy, Mr. Lockhart, but now I've returned from
Ottawa, and have a few days to catch up with my work, which
obviously now includes demonstrating that you are indeed a
liar.

>You listed the following URL
>http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-the-liar
>I see no lie.

What you see or do not see does not change the fact, Mr.
Lockhart, which is that you lied about the contents of a
literary quote.

>Liar: n. a person who tells lies; a person who says what is 
>not true.

>What have I said that is not true?

See Kinsella, Pages 52-53; we can work from there. Then
perhaps we can discuss your lies with regard to a citation you
claim can be found at pages 79-80.

>Now, I realize you have a habit of stretching the truth.

See above. 
Kinsella, 52-53
Kinsella, 79-80
Pot.Kettle. You know the drill.

>Here is an example of how Ken Mc OyVay the Nizkor
>NetZee fighter stretches the truth:

> Nizkor FTP file: people/l/lockhart.joe/lockhart-threat

[snip - see archives]

>Can you please explain where the threat is? Not to mention I live 2,000 +
>miles away from you, perhaps now I'm a threat to National security too??

I chose to take it as a threat, Mr. Lockhart, whether you like
it or not. 

Whether or not you are a threat to Canada's security is not my 
concern, but that of the appropriate police agencies.

>So, A Black man can hate a White person for 'oppression.'
>A Jew can 'hate' people they deem anti-Semitic.
>But a Christian cannot 'hate,' again McVay
>I suggest you dust-off your Bible, you know the book
>you use to level off the couch, and read the following:

We are not looking at those examples, Mr. Lockhart. We are
looking at Joe Lockhart; the question is "Is Mr. Lockhart
being called an anti-Semite for good reason?"

[snip]

[McVay]

>>You have alleged that the Jews "hold the whole world ransom"
>>with the "so-called 6 million"; 

[Lockhart]

>I replied:
>How many BILLIONS of dollars have the Jews received in
>reparations for the so-called holocaust (tm)??

[McVay]

>>Tell us, Mr. Lockhart, what is the answer? Be specific,
>>please.

[Lockhart]

>I have no Idea, you should know, you're the lackey for the jews, Mc Vay
>you should know. Don't you have a Jerry Lewis counter on your
>Nizkor sight??

In other words, Mr. Lockhart, you now admit that you have made
assertions which have no basis in fact. Did you do that
because you hate Jews? (And you wonder why some folks consider
you an anti-Semite. Interesting.)

[snip]

>This is another example of how McVay likes to stretches the truth
>I have NEVER said "ALL" Jews are cowards. That would be a ridiculous statement.
>This is another example of how you stretches the truth.
>I defy you to show where I called 'ALL' Jews cowards.

I stand corrected. You have not said that. 

>Do I have harsh word for some Jews, sure I do, I have never condemned the
>whole community, and I defy you to prove otherwise!!
>To say 'all' Jews are bad is as ridiculous as saying 'all' Christians are good.
>Don't forget Mc Vay, I question you all the time, does that mean I spew 
>anti-Goyism??

No, Mr. Lockhart, you rarely question me. You peddle your
dogma, but you rarely question. I am going to spend some time
taking a closer look at your writing over the next few months
- perhaps then we will have a better picture of just who you
are, and what you are peddling. 

>You then did another 
>Funny how when you cannot call me a liar or anti-Semitic, you just
>snip away.

I call you a liar because you have lied. It is interesting
that you cannot see that. 

Please show me where I have called you an anti-Semite, Mr.
Lockhart. (Don't misunderstand - I do think you are
antisemitic, but I haven't called you one. I have
simply asked why others might, and then provided material of
yours which seems to provide a clear answer, since you were
moaning about being so branded by a heartless public.)
 
>>You refer to the ADL as the "anti-defecation league";

>And your point is????The ADL is an unregistered 
>spy agency for Israel. A spy agency that you're a prostitute for.

My point is that the name of the organization is
Anti-Defamation League. You have no proof that it is an
"unregistered spy agency" for anyone, nor that I am a
"prostitute" for the ADL. In short, another lie, Mr. Lockhart.

>You stated:
>"Is it now? What proof do you have for this allegation - either
>of them, for that matter? Since you claim I am a "prostitute"
>for the ADL, perhaps you will tell me how much they pay me,
>and prove it, or simply admit that you have no such proof, and
>are simply blowing hot air again."

>1) National Alliance has a great tract on the ADL and their spying
>on Americans. They were caught with police files they were should not
>have had. Yes in the end they walk away from all of the charges, this
>again only proves to the people how much power they have.

In short, Mr. Lockhart has no such proof. He cites a Nazi
tract which also has no such proof.

>2) The definition of 'prostitute' I'm referring to is this: 3. " a person
>who gives up himself or his talents to an unworthy cause." Source.
>Gage Canadian Dictionary 1979 page 903

The fact that Mr. Lockhart interprets the ADLs work as
"unworthy" is of no consequence to anyone but Mr. Lockhart. 

>Are you telling us McVay that the information you collect doesn't get
>sent some way to the ADL? Come on McVay, I'm not a fool, they need all the
>help they can get for their 'fact finding' sheets. I have never stated you're paid by the
>ADL, again McVay stretching the truth. Give it a rest...

Speaking of "stretch," here we find Mr. Lockhart stating the
obvious: Nizkor's files are freely available to anyone in the
world with an internet account. From this, Mr. Lockhart
postulates that these files are "sent" to the ADL, implying
some sort of action on my part. Interesting.

>While we are on the topic of 'paid' can you tell us for the record who contribute
>to your 1,500 bucks a month trust fund? Please list all sources.

Certainly, Mr. Lockhart, just as soon as Mr. Zundel sends me
his list of donors, and you send me yours.

>I have also in the past asked you question that you refuse to answer.

>I ask you to tell me (and the world) why Ernst Zundel is a 'threat' to
>Canadian security. You have refused.

I have not stated that Mr. Zundel is a threat to Canada's
security, Mr. Lockhart. I have stated that CSIS made that
claim, and that SIRC was going to hold a hearing on the
matter. In short, Mr. Lockhart, if you are stating that I have
called him that, you are lying again.

I cannot refuse to clarify an assertion that I have not made.
When Mr. Lockhart first asked the question, I referred him to
CSIS.

When SIRC makes its report public (if it does) I will place it
on my web site, and Mr. Lockhart can then read the answer for
himself. I will not speculate on why CSIS has made this
determination, Mr. Lockhart.

>You have stated in the past the Jim Keegstra was not fired for his beliefs, but that
>he was fired for teaching them in class.
>Well McVay, what do you have to say now for freedoms in Canada when Malcolm
>Ross was clearly fired from his teaching job because of his beliefs? 

>Awaiting your reply...

I told you I would answer that question when you answered an
earlier one, related to Mr. Keegstra.

Since you have not done so yet, I will remain
silent on the issue of Mr. Ross.

From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May  2 04:50:28 PDT 1996
Article: 41978 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: a matter of concern
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whsb@cataract.nfss.edu.on.ca (Welland High School Stn 2) wrote:
>this country is being run by a bunch of morons 

And schools all accross Canada, are turning our kinds into
morons. We teach E-quality, not quality.



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May  6 16:51:09 PDT 1996
Article: 42920 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics,ab.politics,bc.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Ringma/Chatters Comments - Bill C-33
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Conform Party of Canada  wrote:
>Statement by Presto Chango Manning
> 
>                          FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>                               May 2, 1996
> 
>                  Ringma/Chatters Comments - Bill C-33
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Comments attributed to Bob Ringma and Dave Chatters are completely
> unacceptable to me and do not represent the positions of the Reform
> Party on discrimination or Bill C-33.

IE:  We are politically correct

> 
> I have not spent nine years building a new party, or involved
> thousands of Canadians in developing sound positions, to see those
> positions misinterpreted, misunderstood, or misrepresented in this
> fashion.

Making sure we don't piss-off the boys
> 
> Reform's position has been, is, and forever will be that all Canadians
> are entitled to freedom from discrimination on the basis of equality
> for all, not special status for some.

Homosexuals are not equal under the laws of God. Lev 20:13

> 
> Equality for all is a grand principle - a good principle - a principle
> big and strong enough to build a country on, if it is not subverted.

More P.C. bullshit.. 

> 
> To demonstrate the seriousness with which I defend this principle:
> 
>    * Bob Ringma, our Whip, has lost his job over its misinterpretation
>      and miscommunication.
>    * Dave Chatters is suspended from Caucus until I can ascertain the
>      root ofhis remarks.
>    * And the next Reform MP who publicly disagrees with or
>      misrepresents this principle will be asked to leave the caucus.
> 
>                                 - 30 -
And I will kick out of the party anyone who the
Candaian Jewish Congress thinks is a Nazi, racist,bigiot,
homophobic etc...





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 10 07:21:43 PDT 1996
Article: 19375 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.history
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: 10 Tribes: Help!
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an338444@anon.penet.fi (Green Thinker) wrote:
>
>Do you know of any books about the identity and movement of the 10 
>northern tribes of Israel (out of Assyrian captivity)?   I'd like to find 
>some books (sources) that are not of the Christian (or any particular 
>religious) perspective.  Are there books out there written on this 
>subject?
>
>I'd be interested in finding out what is available.  Much of what floats 
>around in the USA is modern writings from the "identity" movement.  
>However, I'd like to read some "secular" perspectives on this, which are 
>in favor of the 10 northern tribes making up the white peoples of the 
>western world . . .
>
>I'm certainly not looking for an battle here.  I am doing some research, 
>and I need these missing elements!  Do you know of any historical books on 
>this?
>
>G.T.

One grest book is 'Symbols of our Celto-Saxon Heritage'

Sold by Covenant Books part of British Israelism. The book 
is written in a secular form. It has Bible verses in it, but is
based on symbols IE:

The Great Seal of the United States of America

In the Eagle's claws we see the Olive Branch and the bundle of
Arrows, emblems of the Tribe of Manasseh. We see 13 leaves and the
13 olives, 13 Bars on the Shield and 13 Arrows,in the 13 Stars in the
circle above the Eagle and in the 13 letters in the words 
E Pluribus Unum.

This is from page 140 of the book. All symbols of the 13 Tribes
of Israel.

As far as the 10 Northern Tribes goes, most books based on the
subject are religious.

Something to think about.



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 10 07:26:48 PDT 1996
Article: 28025 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: McVay - Be honest...
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I realize you have stated to me that you will not speculate as to why
CISI considers Ernst Zundel a 'threat' to national security, but I would
like for you to tell the world why a man like Ernst Zundel deserves
to be kicked out of a country and sent to a German prison because
he may not believe in the victors' version of the Second World War?

You stated:

"Ernst Zundel is, Canadians hope, about to receive a special
gift from the Canadian government: An absolutely free, one-way
trip to Germany. Isn't that wonderful? Ingrid can send us
PrisonGrams!"

Who are these Canadians? (other than the CJC, Bnai Brith etc)
Did you ask whom? Who said they want Ernst Zundel kicked out of Canada?

What crime has Mr.Zundel committed worthy of such treatment?

Now you told me in the past that you believed in free speech.
You and I both know as one human to another, that nobody deserves
to be kicked out of a country for being unpopular, or not P.C.
Perhaps you don't want to 'speculate' because then McVay you may just
have to own up to the fact that something very rotten is happening to a man
that has never harmed a fly. This would endanger your secure 'retirement.'

Does a man deserve to go to prison because he doesn't believe in the
Holocaust (tm)?

The European Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 10 17:49:12 PDT 1996
Article: 43799 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,ab.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: PEDOPHILIA IS LEGAL!!
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ah787@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Bill Stuart) wrote:
>	To clairify a few points:
>
>1) The act of being a pedophile is legal. It was legal before the bill 

Where does it say it's legal?

>passed. It will be legal after the bill is passed. It is currently
>protected under the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

What section??

>2) Pedophiles are already given protection under Canadian laws. A
>pedophile released from jail will have his identity and location kept
>secret, for instance. Some areas have repealed this law and harassed
>pedophiles out of town. 
>
>	How will passing a gay rights law affect pedophiles at all? They
>are already protected under canadian law. It is legal to be a pedophile. 
>	Someone please explain how passing a gay rights bill will give
>pedophiles the rights they already have?
>
>
>--





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Sat May 11 08:41:45 PDT 1996
Article: 43896 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics,ont.general
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Peadophile Rights...NOT!!!
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lovebite@io.org (ron) wrote:
>Michael Riehl  wrote:
>>> From: cal@cate.ryerson.ca (Calvin Henry-Cotnam)
>
>>> I do believe that there is something in our law that says that one
>>> must be 18 (perhaps even 21?) to give consent for anal intercourse.
>
>>18 is the age in this case...
>
>Wasn't this clause struck down by some Appeals court?
>
You are right.

May 25 of last year Ontario Court of Appeal Justice
Rosalie Abella (wife of the former president of the
Canadian Jewish Congress) lowered the age of consent for anal sex
to 14, because the previous sodomy law had denied gay men
under 18 a "basic form of sexual expression."





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 13 07:05:16 PDT 1996
Article: 19763 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Les Griswold's Parliamentary appearance
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:


>Concerned Canadians should write to the Chairman of the
>Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Persons
>with Disabilities, the Honourable Sheila Finstone, MP, and
>urge her to invite Mr. Griswold to appear before her
>committee.

And I'm sure Les wants to run down and tell a Jew how he feels.
OyVay..



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 13 07:13:38 PDT 1996
Article: 28488 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: To whom are Jews loyal to??
Content-Type: text/plain
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Who are Jews loyal to?

Jonathan Pollard  is a convicted spy for Israel, yet Jewish groups call for
his release. 

" During a visit to Winnipeg last November, Pollard's sister Carol noted 
that he suffers from glaucoma and hemmorhoids, and claimed American 
government authorities were hoping he'd die in prison.
   Thankfully, that hasn't happened yet. Jonathan Pollard was a spy, but he
spied for Israel at the Israeli government's request. The  Jewish world  owes
him its thanks, and all of us should do everything we can to help secure his
release.
   For years, The Jewish Western Bulletin of Vancouver has conducted a
praiseworthy campaign for Pollard's freedom, and notes that "a collective
voice of outrage at his excessive sentence - can make a difference." That
ongoing pressure so far may well have played a role in Pollard's transfer 
June 22 to a more comfortable environment."

THE JEWISH POST & NEWS, Wednesday, August 18,1993 

If you want to spy, or fight, for the 'Jewish' state, then GO THERE!! What is
stopping you?

The European Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada, R3C 2H6
(204) 775-0878


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 13 07:36:38 PDT 1996
Article: 44317 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Pedophiles - Hetro or Homo??
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: <1996May13.051511.3790@wpg.ramp.net>
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The only way to expose lies is to fight it with truth.
Lately, some pro-Sodomites have spewed the party line that most
pedophiles are hetro, and not homo, well here is something for you to read:


"One difficulty with the gays' right-wing conspiracy
theory is that no serious conservative writer maintains
that most homosexuals are pedophiles; it is an accepted
fact that  most   child  molesters   are  heterosexual.
But  two studies  in the  mid-1980s, in  the Journal   of  
Sex  and   Marital  Therapy   and  Psychological
Reports,    found    roughly    35%   of pedophiles   are 
gay,even   though  gays  make up  only  2%  of  the 
population.  If  both  numbers are true, it means,
statistically, that a homosexual  is  26.4  times  more 
likely  to  be  a pedophile   than   is  a   heterosexual. 
Furthermore,   homosexual   pedophiles   are   more  
active.  A  1992  study  in the  Journal of  Sex and
Marital    Therapy    found    that   heterosexual
pedophiles  commit  an  average  of  20   acts  of child 
molestation;   for  the   homosexual  kind, the number is
150." 

 -- Peter Verburg 

Western Report December 4, 1995

The European Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 13 22:06:42 PDT 1996
Article: 44480 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Who supports Homo rights???
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CJC commends justice minister for honoring government commitment on
sexual orientation

   OTTAWA - Canadian Jewish Congress commended Justice Minister
Allan Rock for tabling Bill C-33 in the House of Commons April 29,
honoring the federal government's pledge to amend the Canadian Human
Rights Act (CHRA) to include sexual orientation as  a prohibited ground of 
discrimination.
   "Since it took office, the Liberal government has been promising this 
amendmem to the CHRA and we are very pleased that the justice minister
has fulfilled this commitment," state CJC President Goldie Hershon,
"Canadian Jewish Congress has long supported an amendment to the
CHRA to proscribe discrimination against indviduals in Canada on the 
basis of their sexual orientatiori." Noted Hershon 
   "We have written to succesive ministers of justice on this fundamental
matter of human rights. In fact, a CJC delegation met with Mr. Rock in
Ottawa prior to the tabling of the Bill yesterday and conveyed the support
of the organization for this amendment."
   "We have always looked to the Parliament of Canada to exercise its
jurisdiction in this matter and amend the Canadian Human Right Act to
send a clear message that discrimmation due to  sexual orientation is
unacceptable in Canadian society." obseved Hal Joffe. chair of CJC's
National  Community Relations Committee. "We urge all Menbers of
Parliament to support this Bill."--

Jewish Post & News Wednesday May 8, 1996


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 13 22:06:43 PDT 1996
Article: 44585 of can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Ruby Ridge (was Les Griswold's Parliamentary appearance)
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:
>If Canada's laws are anything like America's, and Les is presented
>with a subpoena, he won't, um, have a choice.
>
>Ruby Ridge happened because Randy Weaver ignored a federal subpoena.
>
Ruby Ridge happened because the FUC*%EN ATF and FBI
are out of CONTROL!!!

Randy Weaver was set-up by an undercover fed because he would not
rat-out his friends!!!

Sounds like Grant Bristo, don't have a problem, so we cause one!!!

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Tue May 14 05:03:58 PDT 1996
Article: 36792 of alt.revisionism
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Pollard released? (Revisionist Scholarship!)
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kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:
>In article <4n51nc$or5@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>, 
>joebuck@ix.netcom.com(Charles) wrote:
>
>>  Just to clarify what follows, readers may be surprised to know that,
>>not only WAS convicted Jewish-"American" spy Jonathan Pollard RELEASED
>>some time ago, Israel -- the country he spied against the United States
>>for -- literally made him an Israeli citizen last year -- a BRAZEN
>>slap-in-the-face to the U.S.
>
>Perhaps Nameless User will enlighten us and explain _when_ Mr.
>Pollard was released, and just who it is that now occupies the
>prison cell with "Pollard" on the door....
>
>A fine, nay, a CLASSIC, example of "revisionist scholarship"
>at work!
>
McOyVay you're such a child, grow-up.

McVay, according to you we should write-off all holocaust
propaganda because one jew says he can tell the 
type of jew being burned by the colour of the smoke 
shooting out of the chimney! Is that what you want??

Or should we write-off everything you say because
you light a cigarette backwards on national TV?

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 16 12:44:29 PDT 1996
Article: 20004 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,can.politics
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Ruby Ridge (was Les Griswold's Parliamentary appearance)
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Organization: The Euro-Christian Defence League
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fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:
>Joe Lockhart  wrote:
>
>>fresh@panix.com (Andrew Mathis) wrote:
>>>If Canada's laws are anything like America's, and Les is presented
>>>with a subpoena, he won't, um, have a choice.
>>>
>>>Ruby Ridge happened because Randy Weaver ignored a federal subpoena.
>>>
>>Ruby Ridge happened because the FUC*%EN ATF and FBI
>>are out of CONTROL!!!
>
>>Randy Weaver was set-up by an undercover fed because he would not
>>rat-out his friends!!!
>
>>Sounds like Grant Bristo, don't have a problem, so we cause one!!!
>
>Joe, I'll repeat myself, in small words so as not to confuse you too
>much.
>
>The reason that the ATF and FBI went to Ruby Ridge to abduct Weaver
>was that he had bought an illegal weapon from an undercover FBI agent
>and then refused to appear in court to defend himself against the
>charge.
>
>What followed was the outcome of his refusal to appear.

The following was because of an illegal FBI set-up

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 16 12:52:47 PDT 1996
Article: 28645 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news-feed.iguide.com!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: A Question for the Canadian Jewish Congress - RE: ZOG
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: <1996May14.031837.1662@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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ncrccjc responds;  (Bernie Farber I assume?) The nameless one

"Quiite, true Joe; the antisemitic term "Zog" was used  for years,
mostly by racists like you!"

In this quote from you, you now call me a racist.
We are talking about the term "ZOG" (Zionist Occupational Government)
The term ZOG refers only to Jews, so how can a person who uses the term
ZOG be a racist when Jews say they are not a race?

All so when you were on TV you referred to Malcolm Ross as a Racist. I
have read some of Malcolm Ross's books, lots about Jews, nothing about
blacks, or browns etc.

So the question is: 

How can a person using the term "ZOG" be a racist when Jews are not a
race?
How can Malcolm Ross be a racist for writing books about Jews if Jews are
not a race?

Can you please explain this to me?

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3C 2H6
24 Hr Hotline (204) 775-0878


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 17 21:07:36 PDT 1996
Article: 1070 of alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Newsgroups: can.politics,alt.fan.ernst-zundel
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.webdirect.ca!news.challenge.com!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!fdn.fr!r2d2.fdn.org!uunet!in2.uu.net!sgigate.sgi.com!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!tribune.usask.ca!mongol.sasknet.sk.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Mr. Lockhart, the envelope please
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rich@c2.org (Rich Graves) wrote:
>On April 29th, Joe Lockhart , in article
><1996Apr29.033202.19321@wpg.ramp.net> of the thread "Drop the 'Christian'
>pretense, Mr. Lockhart," criticized Ken McVay for presenting only one side
>of the story -- posting a letter to the Winnipeg Sun that was a response
>to an earlier letter from the esteemed Mr. Lockhart of the European
>Christian Defense League. 
>
>Several people, both self-described racists and non-racists, have since
>asked Mr.  Lockhart to post the original letter himself, but he has not
>done so. Just in case he missed those requests, I am posting and emailing
>this again. 
>
>Surely Mr. Lockhart is a man of his convictions, not restricted by the
>dicta of a Dr. William Pierce, as is Les Griswold.
>
>-rich
> http://www.c2.org/~rich/Not_By_Me_Not_My_Views/rebuttal.html

Posted May 14,1996 (UTC)





From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 23 00:10:50 PDT 1996
Article: 29372 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: 11-year-old rapist
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>
>"Thomas J. Penton" (afn45350@afn.org) writes:
>> On 18 May 1996, Les Griswold wrote:
>> 
>>> Today in the _Ottawa Sun_, there was a report about an 11-year-old rapist,
>>> who was reminding the cops about the fact that they couldn't charge him
>>> with JACK SHIT since he was only 11.  This rapist was a negro, of course. 
>
>> Les white 11 year olds can be rapists too, 
>
>So where are the 11-year-old white rapists?
>
>Les
>
Think about this: 

Forcible rape: White: 16,306. Black 12,960
Source FBI.

Now remember that whites make-up 80% +- the U.S. population
Blacks only make-up 12% 

ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 23 00:10:51 PDT 1996
Article: 29438 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!bofh.dot!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!news.sol.net!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: To whom are Jews loyal to??
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jarred@cpcn.com (Tori where are you?) wrote:
>You ignorant fuck!!!!
>First of all, it was America who betrayed Israel!
>You see America and Israel had a deal that any vital information that
>America obtained about certain Arab countries would be given over to
>Israel.  America with-held VITAL information from Israel, going back on
>its deal that it had made with Israel.
>Get your facts right you BIGOT!!!
>"Never Again"

How dare America hold vital information from God's special chosen ones.
Israel has a histroy of 'going back on its deals' with America.
If I remeber right, America gave Israel rockets or something like
that to defend itself from Sadass Insain, on the promiss they would not
sell the technology to anyone. What did they go and do? Sell it to
China.

Oh but that's OK because their the 'apple of God's eye.'


ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 23 00:10:52 PDT 1996
Article: 29601 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Jesus was a Hebrew, not a "Jew"
Content-Type: text/plain
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From: ncrccjc@ibm.net (ncrccjc)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Re: Jesus was a Hebrew, not a "Jew"
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 18:14:48 GMT
Organization: ncrccjc
Message-ID: <4ndb3b$11jg@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
References: 

ral007@omni.voicenet.com (Polattolah) wrote:



>ncrccjc responds:

>In fact Jesus chastises the High Priests or the Pharisees, not the
>Jews in particular. Your biblical knowledge is worse than elementary.
>However what else could one expect from bigots?

As far as the first assertion that Jesus was not a Jew, I assume you agree
because you never refuted it?

For proof on the point that Jesus was not a Jew we read from...

1 From Funk & Wagnalls Standard Reference Encyclopedia
1959 1960. Volume 14 page 5241

1 JEWS: "Although, in modern usage, the terms Hebrew, Israelite,
and Jew are employed synonymously, both historically
and ethnically the words have different meanings."

Also we read about Judaism...

2 From Funk & Wagnalls Standard Reference Encyclopedia
1959 1960. Volume 14 page 5292

2 JUDAISM: "the religious system, doctrines, and rites of 
the Jews. Judaism is, specifically, the religion of a Jewish
community living among Gentile peoples and is to be
distinguished from the religion of ancient Israel.."

I will agree with you on  your point that Jesus was chastising the
Pharisees and the Scribes of his time. Interestingly enough the Bible
was written for our learning as Paul stated.
We at the ECDL have taking the position that as Jesus in his time 
exhorted the political power of his time, so shall we.
We have no interest in any Jew who lives his live like everyone else.
What we are concerned about are the 'minority among the minority,'
who through they shrewdness have set Canada into the abyss of the
New World Order.

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3C 2H6
24 Hr Hotline (204) 775-0878

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 23 00:10:53 PDT 1996
Article: 29619 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!bofh.dot!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: 11-year-old rapist
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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patrickc@Direct.CA (Cthulhu) wrote:
>In article <1996May19.220728.25685@wpg.ramp.net>, Joe Lockhart  wrote:
>
>>Forcible rape: White: 16,306. Black 12,960
>>Source FBI.
>>
>>Now remember that whites make-up 80% +- the U.S. population
>>Blacks only make-up 12% 
>>
>>ECDL
>>
>>http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html
>
>Phony statistics made up by the KKK, I presume?

Your presume wrong. 

Source: Department of Justice, FBI, Uniform Crime Reports
for the United States, 1991, released 1992.

Also from: The 1994 Information Please ALMANAC 1994
page 856

Look it up for yourself.

ECDL 

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 24 09:24:44 PDT 1996
Article: 20445 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!imci2!imci3!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: 11-year-old rapist
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <1996May19.220728.25685@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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References: <4nj4hj$o3s@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4nl170$9hh@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>
>"Thomas J. Penton" (afn45350@afn.org) writes:
>> On 18 May 1996, Les Griswold wrote:
>> 
>>> Today in the _Ottawa Sun_, there was a report about an 11-year-old rapist,
>>> who was reminding the cops about the fact that they couldn't charge him
>>> with JACK SHIT since he was only 11.  This rapist was a negro, of course. 
>
>> Les white 11 year olds can be rapists too, 
>
>So where are the 11-year-old white rapists?
>
>Les
>
Think about this: 

Forcible rape: White: 16,306. Black 12,960
Source FBI.

Now remember that whites make-up 80% +- the U.S. population
Blacks only make-up 12% 

ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 24 09:24:45 PDT 1996
Article: 20597 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!bofh.dot!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: 11-year-old rapist
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <1996May21.173838.1143@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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Organization: The Euro-Christian Defence League
References: <4nj4hj$o3s@freenet-news.carleton.ca>  <4nl170$9hh@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <1996May19.220728.25685@wpg.ramp.net> <4nq6ql$ag2@aphex.direct.ca>
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patrickc@Direct.CA (Cthulhu) wrote:
>In article <1996May19.220728.25685@wpg.ramp.net>, Joe Lockhart  wrote:
>
>>Forcible rape: White: 16,306. Black 12,960
>>Source FBI.
>>
>>Now remember that whites make-up 80% +- the U.S. population
>>Blacks only make-up 12% 
>>
>>ECDL
>>
>>http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html
>
>Phony statistics made up by the KKK, I presume?

Your presume wrong. 

Source: Department of Justice, FBI, Uniform Crime Reports
for the United States, 1991, released 1992.

Also from: The 1994 Information Please ALMANAC 1994
page 856

Look it up for yourself.

ECDL 

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 24 17:05:08 PDT 1996
Article: 46751 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics,wpg.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hookup!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: For the Canadian Jewish Congress - RE: Letter to the Editor
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: <1996May22.073634.26435@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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Just for you Bernie. 

Note: I will first put the story verbatim, then I will explain parts
of the letter marked with a (1) and so on.

Winnipeg Sun April 3 1996 Page 12

Lack of understanding.

   I am quite dismayed with the lack of sensitivity shown by the editorial
staff at The Sun in printing the letter titled Leave Zundel Alone, written
by Joe Lockhart of the European Christian Defence league. 
   Lockhart's suggestion that the Jewish lobby has inordinate power and
controls the government of Canada smacks of classic anti-Semitism.  His
reference to the Holocaust as a "Jewish story" is archetypical Holocaust
denial. 
   Your policy clearly stated that letters are subject to editing.   In my
opinion,  for the Winnipeg Sun to have printed this letter in its entirety,
displays a lack of understanding of Lockhart's very clear agenda.   I would
hope that in the future, you will no longer allow your paper to become the
vehicle used by hate-mongers to spread their anti-Semitic canards.

Evelyn Hecht
Director of Community Relations
Winnipeg Jewish Community Council/ Canadian Jewish Congress
Manitoba Region

ECDL responds:

1) " I am quite dismayed with the lack of sensitivity shown by the
editorial staff at The Sun in printing the letter titled Leave Zundel Alone,
written by Joe Lockhart of the European Christian Defence league. "

ECDL: Yes, how dare you allow freedom of speech and freedom of the
press without checking with us first! We at the CJC are the thought police
in Canada. How dare you let Lockhart as questions!

2a) " Lockhart's suggestion that the Jewish lobby has inordinate power
and controls the government of Canada smacks of classic anti-Semitism."

ECDL: I never made no such suggestion. In my original letter I stated: 

"Is the government of Canada admitting that if you're a threat to the
Jewish community, then you're a threat to the national security of
Canada? What does that say about the power of the Jewish lobby
groups?"

Notice the question marks (?) That means I'm asking a question, not
making a suggestion. A question that still stands unanswered.

2b)  " Lockhart's suggestion that the Jewish lobby has inordinate power
and controls the government of Canada smacks of classic anti-
Semitism."

ECDL: Just call me names and don't answer the question.

3) "His reference to the Holocaust as a "Jewish story" is archetypical
Holocaust denial."

ECDL: The Holocaust (tm) is a Jewish story, what's your point?

4) "Your policy clearly stated that letters are subject to editing."

ECDL: And every time someone says that Jews are at the forefront of
censorship you get lambasted with every name you can think of.
If this is not proof that the Canadian Jewish Congress is telling the
Winnipeg Sun to edit (censor) their letters to the editor, I don't know
what it.

5) " In my opinion,  for the Winnipeg Sun to have printed this letter in
its entirety, displays a lack of understanding of Lockhart's very clear
agenda. 

ECDL: Who asked for your opinion? Now, you have the right to your
opinion but why don't I? BTW, what is my 'clear agenda'?
Is my clear agenda to ask questions? Can I not as a free Canadian ask a
simple question? Why is Zundel a threat to 'national security'? Can you
tell me that, or is even asking the question another form or anti-
Semitism?

6) "I would hope that in the future, you will no longer allow your paper
to become the vehicle used by hate-mongers to spread their anti-
Semitic canards."

ECDL: Now here is where the thinly veiled threat comes in. In plain
English if the Winnipeg Sun continues to believe wrongly in free
speech and freedom of the press, they will perhaps find themselves
without advertisers,  and without advertisers they will have to close
down. Just like in Japan.  So much for freedom of the press.

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html

Bernie, you still have not answered my question to you dated May 14,
re: Zog. The question is on McVay's Nizkor site. 



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Sun May 26 15:30:17 PDT 1996
Article: 30081 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!bofh.dot!fury.berkshire.net!news.albany.net!imci3!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Another liberal two-sided belief
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bn946@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Les Griswold) wrote:
>
>Homosexuality is genetically caused, but any other behavioural abberation
>is environmentally caused.  Put plainly, fags are born, but negro criminals 
>are a product of "poverty" and the "legacy of slavery".
>
>Les
>
>
How about this one...

Black power = pride!

White Power = Hate?

Hmmm....

ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Mon May 27 12:17:51 PDT 1996
Article: 39544 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy,alt.skinheads,talk.politics.misc,alt.censorship
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Here is some questions for you McVay (was Four Questions for "Anton" Huber (Round 3)
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Before I decided to get on the 'net' I watch a CBC show called 'Cyber
Hate.' This was the first time I had ever heard of Ken McVay. Ken made
some statements on that show that he now seems to have modified.

McVay on Government prosecution of 'though criminal'.:

"I did at that time approve  [of] Canadian actions against Zundel against
Keegstra, ah it was sort of a gut reaction because they offended me so
deeply I said good shut them up put them in jail do what ever it takes, ...no
free speech."

ECDL:
Instead of locking them up, it now appears that McVay likes to have them
deported. You still have not answered why Ernst Zundel deserves to be
sent to a country to serve time in jail for something that is not against the
law in this country? (not yet)
Please explain??

McVay continues....

"4 years on the InterNet has changed my..my thinking on that issue
totally." 

ECDL:
Has it? When I asked you to define free speech you told me that "free
speech is everything except hate speech." I asked you to tell me who
defines 'hate' speech, and you refused.
Who does define 'hate' speech Mr. McVay? And don't tell me the
government of Canada does. You know as well as I do, the government of
Canada can't even wipe its own ass before getting advice from the self-
proclaimed 'human rights' groups.

McVay on government InterNet censorship:

"Their going to get millions of people upset with them, main-stream,
normal run-of-the-mill, middle-class working folks, who had  a modem  for
six months are going to get real upset when they discover that if they say
the wrong thing somebodies  going to come along and knock on the door
and take away their computer."

ECDL:
You're right McVay, but where were you when the Simon Wiesenthal
Center called for a "InterNet ban on hate groups' messages?" (NYT Jan
10,1996) What's wrong? Don't want to bite the hand that feed you?

McVay continues...

"Once you let the government start deciding what's correct and what's not
correct... ah. they may decide its your turn next month and tell you that
what you're saying is unacceptable..and that's what scare me that scare me
a lot more than the fact that someone may say something on the Net that
deeply offend you."

ECDL:

The government of Canada has passed a private members bill banning
'Hate Propaganda,' on the InterNet, what do you have to say about M.P.
Ray Pagtakhan's bill?

McVay: "Once you let the government start deciding what's correct and
what's not correct... ah. they may decide its your turn next month...."

(NOTE: the secession of periods after the word month.... means the quote
is not complete, this is not a lie McVay... but you already knew that didn't
you)

Well McVay.. The government has decided what's correct and what's not
correct. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to back-up
words right from your mouth, or are you just another liar??

What has happened to your nation-wide stance on free speech? How come
you now state that there should be certain limits to free speech?

Now I have asked you many questions McVay. Will you answer?

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
R3C 2H6 (204) 775-0878

Visit our Web site at:

http:/www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html

Or visit the Freedom-Site at:

http:/www.pathcom.com/~freedom/




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Wed May 29 06:51:12 PDT 1996
Article: 48175 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics,wpg.politics
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!news.nstn.ca!hookup!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: For the Canadian Jewish Congress - RE: Letter to the Editor
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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References: <1996May22.073634.26435@wpg.ramp.net> <4nv5hn$s2f@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>  <4o8lf5$ibq@wpg-01.escape.ca> 
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Lester Toews  wrote:
>
>I dunno if you are a Nazi symp or just an idiot.
>
>I made it quite clear why I altered the sig;
>
>to prevent free advertising for Lockhart's crap.
>
>
>There was not even the slightest implication I put anything into 
>
>anyone's else's mouth.
>
>I suspect, but do not know for certain you had alteriror motives in 
>re-posting the address.
>
>In any event I am not going to help you.
>I have re-altered the content of your post.
>
>So take another bath.
>



If Lester wants to edit my post he has the right.
After all.. to keep it in its full form would mean
he might agree with freedom of speech.

But, like most liberals and leftest scum, his
type crys for freedom of speech for him.
But not for others..

How typical...

The ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Wed May 29 14:23:53 PDT 1996
Article: 40064 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!newsfeed.pitt.edu!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Turner Diaries
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>A_Baron@abaron.demon.co.uk writes:
>>In article <4oa2i5$12jm@useneta1.news.prodigy.com>
>>           EEGG87E@prodigy.com "M Huber" writes:
>>> Bookstores are ordering the new edition
>>
>>I find that difficult to believe; this book is actually very good ammunition
>>for the enemies of the White Race, in particular Organised Jewry and 
>>International Socialism because it portrays anyone committed to White 
>>Survival as a baby-eating Hollywood type Nazi. I'm actually surprised 
>>that William Pierce hasn't been signed up by the ADL. Perhaps he has?
>
The Turner Diaries will now be sold in main-stream book
stores thank's to the dear Jewish man who wants to
'warn' America.. (amd make a fast buck too)

How typical

ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Wed May 29 15:02:04 PDT 1996
Article: 30333 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: On Soviet Death Sentence for Anti-Semitism
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 17:41:22 GMT
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bob whitaker  wrote:
>     I mentioned the Soviet death sentence for anti-semitism, 
>and Craig went ballistic.  To a Politically Correct person 
>today, that cannot have been because the USSR was officially a 
>Bad Thing and therefore could not have had such laws against 
>anti-semitism.  Back in the 1960's, when Poltically Correct 
>leftists said that the USSR was a Good Thing and the only 
>bulwark against evil Americans and their militarism, this death 
>sentence was mentioned all the time.  It is never mentioned 
>today, and in my little library here I can't find the older 
>books that do mention it.
>    So I went back to Solzhenitsyn's *The First Circle* where 
>it was mentioned.  The problem is finding that specific mention 
>in such a huge book.  Looking it over fairly quickly, I did 
>find a mention of a ten-year sentence being given under Stalin 
>for using the word "kike".  It is in Chapter 72, "The Party 
>Secretary", near the end, page 451 in the l968 Harper and Rowe 
>edition.
>    I make this point because Craig Lambert(?) went to pieces 
>over the simple qquoting of a fact which he found heretical.   
>I don't see it as cruishingly critical to anything, but it 
>shows the Inquisition mind-set of the politically Correct, and 
>their shrieks that something simply cannot be because it 
>violates their current Truth.
>     The thinking that calls itself "anti-racist" very often 
>belongs in Orwell's *1984*.
>

The modern liberal lie is that Jews were just another
minority that everybody hated. So how could there be laws agains
anti-Semitism when the so-called power hated Jews?

Here is a quote from a book called 'The Jews'
We all know who was in control of Russia, and Communisum
and here is an admission from one of their own.

"...although Jews formed less than five per cent of Russis'a
population, they formed more than fifty per cent of its
revolutionaries." 

As far as name changes that was popular, here is an
example:

"However, access has never been entirely free and they have
had to resort to major or minor subterfuges, changing name,
faith, camouflaging antecedents to gain admission."
"Not that one could dispence with subterfuges under Communism;
Bronstein became Trotsky, Sobeisohn, Kamenev and Wallach,
Litvinov, .."

Jewish revolutionaries now called "human rights' groups,
have moved from Russia and are now in Canada and America.

Here is another quote from the same book:

"...when the American Communist Party came into being it
could have effectively conducted its business in Yiddish."

Think about it people!!!!

ECDL

Visit our Web site
http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html

Or Visit the Freedom-Site at:
http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Wed May 29 19:08:57 PDT 1996
Article: 30344 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Here is some questions for you McVay
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From: kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC)
Newsgroups:
alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy,alt.skinheads
,talk.politics.misc,alt.censorship,can.politics
Followup-To: can.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Here is some questions for you McVay
Date: 27 May 1996 12:44:48 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Message-ID: <4od0ng$208@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
References: <4nus3o$flg@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4o04nj$5fd@news1.panix.com>
<4o4ogu$inv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <1996May27.045826.20905@wpg.ramp.net>

In article <1996May27.045826.20905@wpg.ramp.net>, 

McVay:

"The government of Canada has designated Ernst Zundel as a
threat to the security of the country. As the SIRC hearings
have only just begun, neither I, nor anyone else (outside
CSIS) can explain why. "

ECDL:
McVay, you KNOW why CSIS has deemed Zundel a threat
to so-called national security, why not admit it? And you have the
nerve to call me a liar? CISI thinks he is a threat because of his
politics. Remember it's a crime to ask questions about the '6'
million.

McVay continues...

"Ernst Zundel, it would seem, is not fit to be a citizen of
this country - that is the CSIS position, as I understand it.
Unless SIRC reverses that position, Mr. Zundel deserves
deportation on that merit alone."

ECDL:
O.K.  So then you agree that in Germany 1939 the then
government deemed Jews as a 'threat' to national security
and deported them. The Jews according to you 'deserved
deportation on that merit alone.' I see you agree with Nazi
policy, I understand..

McVay:
"For the record, and for the nth time, I am opposed to the
German legislation, but I am not going to moralize about
Germany's position. Given the background from which these laws
sprung, I don't think anyone on this side of the pond can
possibly understand."

ECDL:
You cannot 'moralize' about it because you know as well as I
do it is amoral.

McVay stated:
"Will I lose sleep if Ernst Zundel spends time in a German
prison? No, Mr. Lockhart, I will not."

ECDL:
Seems a far-cry from your statements on CBC Ken!

McVay on CBC:
"I did at that time approve  [of] Canadian actions against Zundel against
Keegstra, ah it was sort of a gut reaction because they offended me so
deeply I said good shut them up put them in jail do what ever it takes, ...no
free speech."

"4 years on the InterNet has changed my..my thinking on that issue
totally." 

ECDL:
Yes McVay, you're right.

McVay on the definition of hate speech:
"The Supreme Court of Canada has defined it quite clearly Mr.
Lockhart. I suggest you begin there."

ECDL:
Here is McVay in his own words:

"Once you let the government start deciding what's correct and what's not
correct... ah. they may decide its your turn next month and tell you that
what you're saying is unacceptable..and that's what scare me that scare me
a lot more than the fact that someone may say something on the Net that
deeply offend you."

ECDL:
You stated the Supreme Court of Canada has defined hate speech. Well I
submit to you that the Canadian Jewish Congress has defined what 'hate'
speech is, the SCC just happen to unfortunately agree with them, and it now
appears that you do as well. 

McVay on the Wiesenthal Center bit to censor the Net:
"The Wiesenthal Center did not call for government censorship,
but for ISP self-regulation. Ergo, government is not involved,
and the issue is moot, as is your question. Every ISP has the
right to determine what will or will not appear on his system.
Customers who want what one denies will vote with their
pocketbooks and move elsewhere." 

ECDL:

1)The Wiesenthal Center did not call for government censorship...
It didn't need to. They know through intimidation they could circumvent the
government and do it faster themselves.

McVay:
"..but for ISP self-regulation."

ECDL:
Against anything they deem unacceptable.
What about all the filth on the InterNet? No cry to censor of that?
What about stuff like "Craig's Shit Page," Is that acceptable to
the SWC?

McVay: 
"...government is not involved...,"

ECDL:
No yet, but if the ISP's don't get their act together that ADL in true
form will cry to the government for help in countering all this
free speech, oops.. I ment 'hate speech.'

McVay:
"...Every ISP has the right to determine what will or will not appear
on his system. Customers who want what one denies will vote with
their pocketbooks and move elsewhere." 

ECDL:
Just like Marco Polo magazine in Japan had the 'right' to free speech
until they pissed-off God's chosen ones.
Did the SWC, or the ADL ask the government of Japan to act, no, they
simply went after their advertisers. No advertisers no magazine
But I guess you will find some way to explain how that was a good
thing too right McVay?

McVay on the government of Canada's new InterNet hate law introduced by
M.P. Ray Pagtakhan in a private members bill. 

McVay:
"I have made my opinion clear to Mr. Pagtakhan on three
separate occasions, as several readers here can attest. I
suggest that you call Mr. Pagtakhan and ask him what I had to
say. (He will tell you, if he speaks to you at all, that he
and I disagree completely on the issue.)"

ECDL:
Why would he not speak to me McVay? Are you special?
Perhaps you disagree, but it seems the people who agree like the CJC
are more important than you.
(NOTE: The CJC has not publicly stated their position on this issue, one

can assume they are in favour of this new law because they have remained silent)


McVay:
"If you had watched me testify before the Standing Committee in
April, you would already know the answer. Sorry you missed it.
The transcripts will eventually be published on the web, and
you can catch up on your homework, and deal with your
ignorance at the same time."

ECDL:
Ignorance of what? Your clever hypocrisy? While you claim to be against
censorship, it would seem that you favour censorship through deportation.
And you favour censorship through ISP intimidation.
You know as well as I do, your FTP site will one day be used in a court
of 'thought police' against some poor person who thought they
had freedom of speech. You true to form will complain that they have the
'right' to free speech, and then hand over the files to 'ze' big brother.
I understand..

McVay of free speech:
"No nation on earth exists without limits on speech, Mr.
Lockhart." 

ECDL:
Wrong, the United States of America has no limits on free speech.
(as long as you're not advocating the commission of a crime)
In the next few days I will post an example of American free
speech, you will see what is legal in the States and what is illegal
in Canada, there is a big difference. 

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3C 2H6
24 Hr Hotline (204) 775-0878

Join the fight for freedom of our people..

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 30 08:05:09 PDT 1996
Article: 30405 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: On Soviet Death Sentence for Anti-Semitism
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <1996May30.082533.8315@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
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Organization: The Euro-Christian Defence League
References: <4o7tg9$o9o@molokini.conterra.com> <833110086snz@augur.demon.co.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 08:25:33 GMT
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Caesar  wrote:
>
>What about Nazi attempts at mind control by mass-propaganda?
>
>
And what about the current mind control by ABC, CBS, NBC..
etc??

You have the electric toilet brain-washing you right before your 
eyes man!!!

ECDL:

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html



From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Thu May 30 08:27:19 PDT 1996
Article: 48386 of can.politics
Newsgroups: can.politics,talk.politics.misc
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.portal.ca!van-bc!unixg.ubc.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!tribune.usask.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Here is some questions for you McVay
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From: kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC)
Newsgroups:
alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.conspiracy,alt.skinheads
,talk.politics.misc,alt.censorship,can.politics
Followup-To: can.politics,talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: Here is some questions for you McVay
Date: 27 May 1996 12:44:48 -0700
Organization: The Nizkor Project
Message-ID: <4od0ng$208@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
References: <4nus3o$flg@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4o04nj$5fd@news1.panix.com>
<4o4ogu$inv@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <1996May27.045826.20905@wpg.ramp.net>

In article <1996May27.045826.20905@wpg.ramp.net>, 

McVay:

"The government of Canada has designated Ernst Zundel as a
threat to the security of the country. As the SIRC hearings
have only just begun, neither I, nor anyone else (outside
CSIS) can explain why. "

ECDL:
McVay, you KNOW why CSIS has deemed Zundel a threat
to so-called national security, why not admit it? And you have the
nerve to call me a liar? CISI thinks he is a threat because of his
politics. Remember it's a crime to ask questions about the '6'
million.

McVay continues...

"Ernst Zundel, it would seem, is not fit to be a citizen of
this country - that is the CSIS position, as I understand it.
Unless SIRC reverses that position, Mr. Zundel deserves
deportation on that merit alone."

ECDL:
O.K.  So then you agree that in Germany 1939 the then
government deemed Jews as a 'threat' to national security
and deported them. The Jews according to you 'deserved
deportation on that merit alone.' I see you agree with Nazi
policy, I understand..

McVay:
"For the record, and for the nth time, I am opposed to the
German legislation, but I am not going to moralize about
Germany's position. Given the background from which these laws
sprung, I don't think anyone on this side of the pond can
possibly understand."

ECDL:
You cannot 'moralize' about it because you know as well as I
do it is amoral.

McVay stated:
"Will I lose sleep if Ernst Zundel spends time in a German
prison? No, Mr. Lockhart, I will not."

ECDL:
Seems a far-cry from your statements on CBC Ken!

McVay on CBC:
"I did at that time approve  [of] Canadian actions against Zundel against
Keegstra, ah it was sort of a gut reaction because they offended me so
deeply I said good shut them up put them in jail do what ever it takes, ...no
free speech."

"4 years on the InterNet has changed my..my thinking on that issue
totally." 

ECDL:
Yes McVay, you're right.

McVay on the definition of hate speech:
"The Supreme Court of Canada has defined it quite clearly Mr.
Lockhart. I suggest you begin there."

ECDL:
Here is McVay in his own words:

"Once you let the government start deciding what's correct and what's not
correct... ah. they may decide its your turn next month and tell you that
what you're saying is unacceptable..and that's what scare me that scare me
a lot more than the fact that someone may say something on the Net that
deeply offend you."

ECDL:
You stated the Supreme Court of Canada has defined hate speech. Well I
submit to you that the Canadian Jewish Congress has defined what 'hate'
speech is, the SCC just happen to unfortunately agree with them, and it now
appears that you do as well. 

McVay on the Wiesenthal Center bit to censor the Net:
"The Wiesenthal Center did not call for government censorship,
but for ISP self-regulation. Ergo, government is not involved,
and the issue is moot, as is your question. Every ISP has the
right to determine what will or will not appear on his system.
Customers who want what one denies will vote with their
pocketbooks and move elsewhere." 

ECDL:

1)The Wiesenthal Center did not call for government censorship...
It didn't need to. They know through intimidation they could circumvent the
government and do it faster themselves.

McVay:
"..but for ISP self-regulation."

ECDL:
Against anything they deem unacceptable.
What about all the filth on the InterNet? No cry to censor of that?
What about stuff like "Craig's Shit Page," Is that acceptable to
the SWC?

McVay: 
"...government is not involved...,"

ECDL:
No yet, but if the ISP's don't get their act together that ADL in true
form will cry to the government for help in countering all this
free speech, oops.. I ment 'hate speech.'

McVay:
"...Every ISP has the right to determine what will or will not appear
on his system. Customers who want what one denies will vote with
their pocketbooks and move elsewhere." 

ECDL:
Just like Marco Polo magazine in Japan had the 'right' to free speech
until they pissed-off God's chosen ones.
Did the SWC, or the ADL ask the government of Japan to act, no, they
simply went after their advertisers. No advertisers no magazine
But I guess you will find some way to explain how that was a good
thing too right McVay?

McVay on the government of Canada's new InterNet hate law introduced by
M.P. Ray Pagtakhan in a private members bill. 

McVay:
"I have made my opinion clear to Mr. Pagtakhan on three
separate occasions, as several readers here can attest. I
suggest that you call Mr. Pagtakhan and ask him what I had to
say. (He will tell you, if he speaks to you at all, that he
and I disagree completely on the issue.)"

ECDL:
Why would he not speak to me McVay? Are you special?
Perhaps you disagree, but it seems the people who agree like the CJC
are more important than you.
(NOTE: The CJC has not publicly stated their position on this issue, one

can assume they are in favour of this new law because they have remained silent)


McVay:
"If you had watched me testify before the Standing Committee in
April, you would already know the answer. Sorry you missed it.
The transcripts will eventually be published on the web, and
you can catch up on your homework, and deal with your
ignorance at the same time."

ECDL:
Ignorance of what? Your clever hypocrisy? While you claim to be against
censorship, it would seem that you favour censorship through deportation.
And you favour censorship through ISP intimidation.
You know as well as I do, your FTP site will one day be used in a court
of 'thought police' against some poor person who thought they
had freedom of speech. You true to form will complain that they have the
'right' to free speech, and then hand over the files to 'ze' big brother.
I understand..

McVay of free speech:
"No nation on earth exists without limits on speech, Mr.
Lockhart." 

ECDL:
Wrong, the United States of America has no limits on free speech.
(as long as you're not advocating the commission of a crime)
In the next few days I will post an example of American free
speech, you will see what is legal in the States and what is illegal
in Canada, there is a big difference. 

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3C 2H6
24 Hr Hotline (204) 775-0878

Join the fight for freedom of our people..

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html


From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 31 12:21:02 PDT 1996
Article: 30483 of alt.politics.white-power
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!imci2!news.internetMCI.com!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca!news.wpg.ramp.net!news
From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: A Question for the Canadian Jewish Congress - RE: ZOG
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Message-ID: <1996May31.113102.1645@wpg.ramp.net>
Sender: news@wpg.ramp.net (news)
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Organization: The Euro-Christian Defence League
References: <1996May14.031837.1662@wpg.ramp.net> <4nnmsk$j6a@aphex.direct.ca> 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 11:31:02 GMT
X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1N (Windows; I; 16bit)
Lines: 60

kabong@inforamp.net (kabong) wrote:
>In article <4nnmsk$j6a@aphex.direct.ca>, patrickc@Direct.CA (Cthulhu) wrote:
>
>> In article <1996May14.031837.1662@wpg.ramp.net>, Joe Lockhart
> wrote:
>> >ncrccjc responds;  (Bernie Farber I assume?) The nameless one
>> >
>> >"Quiite, true Joe; the antisemitic term "Zog" was used  for years,
>> >mostly by racists like you!"
>> >
>> >In this quote from you, you now call me a racist.
>> >We are talking about the term "ZOG" (Zionist Occupational Government)
>> >The term ZOG refers only to Jews, so how can a person who uses the term
>> >ZOG be a racist when Jews say they are not a race?
>> >
>> >All so when you were on TV you referred to Malcolm Ross as a Racist. I
>> >have read some of Malcolm Ross's books, lots about Jews, nothing about
>> >blacks, or browns etc.
>> >
>> >So the question is: 
>> >
>> >How can a person using the term "ZOG" be a racist when Jews are not a
>> >race?
>> >How can Malcolm Ross be a racist for writing books about Jews if Jews are
>> >not a race?
>> >
>> >Can you please explain this to me?
>> 
>> It's a loose use of the term.
>
>Kabong replies:
>
>Fine Joe......
>
>If it makes you feel better to be described as one who deliberately stirs
>up hatred against Jews by promoting the notion of a "Zionist Occupational
>Government", then by all means I will be pleased to call you a demagogue,
>a rabble rouser, a hate-monger or simply a fool......
>
>Glad to be of service.
>
>Kabong

That was not the question. Where do you see in my post
anything anti-Jewish?
I just asked a question. Now I realise that asking a question
that could get you time in jail in Canada, But I would think
you would have enough brains to answer a simple question.

That question is: If ZOG means JEWS how can it be a 
'racist' term when JEWS are not a race?

BTW Kanbong, can you think an independant thought of are
you just another Pavlov's Dog?

ECDL

http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/hompage.html




From ecdl@wpg.ramp.net Fri May 31 20:07:55 PDT 1996
Article: 40351 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: wpg.politics,alt.politics.white-power,can.politics,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.censorship,comp.org.eff.talk
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From: Joe Lockhart 
Subject: Re: Ernst Zundel, threat to Canada's national security?
Content-Type: text/plain
Message-ID: <1996May31.223855.24833@wpg.ramp.net>
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Organization: The Euro-Christian Defence League
References: <4nus3o$flg@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <1996May27.045826.20905@wpg.ramp.net> <4od0ng$208@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <1996May29.190720.6645@wpg.ramp.net> <4okht8$nep@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:30527 can.politics:48691 talk.politics.misc:382376 alt.fan.ernst-zundel:1306 alt.revisionism:40351 alt.censorship:83534 comp.org.eff.talk:65406

In article <1996May29.190720.6645@wpg.ramp.net>, 
Joe Lockhart  wrote:

McVay Re: CISI and the deportation of Ernst Zundel.

"No, Mr. Lockhart, I do not know, and neither do you. It is
not, by the way, a crime to ask questions about the Holocaust
(the number, Mr. Lockhart, is twelve million, not six). If
you, unlike every other Canadian, have evidence with regard to
why CSIS has pronounced Mr. Zundel a threat to Canada's
national security, do feel free to post it here, Mr.
Lockhart. (How long have you had this telepathic ability, Mr.
Lockhart?)"

ECDL:
Well McVay we only ever hear about the so-called '6'
million. McVay, either your simple or an absolute liar. Which is it?
Zundel is a model citizen. He has no criminal record
and pays his taxes.
I know you have stated that you will not speculate why CISI
has deemed him a 'threat' but, you know as well as I do, he
is a threat to the holohoax. This some how makes him a
threat to the national security of Canada. (oh boy)
Just admit it McVay, don't be a coward man.

McVay continues...

"Ernst Zundel, it would seem, is not fit to be a citizen of
this country - that is the CSIS position, as I understand it.
Unless SIRC reverses that position, Mr. Zundel deserves
deportation on that merit alone."

ECDL:

O.K.  So then you agree that in Germany 1939 the then
government deemed Jews as a 'threat' to national security
and deported them. The Jews according to you 'deserved
deportation on that merit alone.' I see you agree with Nazi
policy, I understand..

McVay's temper tantrum:
"The Nazis murdered twelve million innocent civilians, Mr.
Lockhart. Roughly half of them were Jews. Murder, Mr.
Lockhart, murder. No crime had been committed, no law broken -
they were simply murdered."

ECDL:
Don't skirt the issue with your hyperbole McVay, what you won't

admit is that the government of Canada is doing the same
thing that the Nazis' did in Germany. Today they will deport
people, who knows about tomorrow.

McVay:
Evangelical Christians
Homosexuals
Gypsies
Jews
Soviet Moslems
Polish intelligencia

Murdered, Mr. Lockhart. Your silly word games cannot change
the fact of those murders.

ECDL:
And your hyperbole can't change the fact that the government of Canada's
CISI is working at the behest of special interest groups to deport
a man for no other reason except he won't be intimidated into
following the party line of the '6' million McVay.



McVay on CBC:
"I did at that time approve  [of] Canadian actions against Zundel against
Keegstra, ah it was sort of a gut reaction because they offended me so
deeply I said good shut them up put them in jail do what ever it takes, ...no
free speech."

McVay:
Now, Mr. Lockhart, please try and equate my comment about
German prisons and Canadian actions against Zundel.

ECDL: Gladly,

"Ernst Zundel, it would seem, is not fit to be a citizen of
this country - that is the CSIS position, as I understand it.
Unless SIRC reverses that position, Mr. Zundel deserves
deportation on that merit alone."



McVay:

I find it fascinating that you seem to think that I speak for
the Wiesenthal Center, or that I would have an idea of what is
"acceptable" to them and what is not.  Do you also think that
I speak for the Canadian Jewish Congress, the Jewish Defense
League, and McGill's Hillel, Mr. Lockhart? Perhaps you should
be asking me what's acceptable to them as well, eh?

ECDL:
It would appear that you vehemently defend them, I'm just
trying to see where you're coming from.

>McVay: 
>"...government is not involved...,"


McVay making tracks.

"rojecting, are we? First you ask me about ISP
self-regulation, which you call censorship, and when I tell
you that the government is not involved, so I don't oppose
such self-regulation, you then project imminent government
involvement. Interesting."

What has the ADL got to do with it, Mr. Lockhart? There is no
ADL in Canada. (If there were, you would quickly learn that
they are not in favour of government censorship of the
internet.)

ECDL: 
The ADL is the Anti Defamation League of the B'nai Brith.
Or are you going to make a fool out of yourself by telling the
world the US ADL has nothing to do with the Canadian B'nai
Brith?
Are you then going to tell the world that you're not biased even
after receiving an award from the B'nai Brith?

McVay:

"...Every ISP has the right to determine what will or will not appear
on his system. Customers who want what one denies will vote with
their pocketbooks and move elsewhere." 

ECDL:

Just like Marco Polo magazine in Japan had the 'right' to free speech
until they pissed-off God's chosen ones.

MCVay:

"They lost advertisers because they printed something their
advertisers didn't agree with. What's new, Mr. Lockhart?"

Did the SWC, or the ADL ask the government of Japan to act, no, they
simply went after their advertisers. No advertisers no magazine
But I guess you will find some way to explain how that was a good
thing too right McVay?

McVay:

"Advertisers talk with their wallets, Mr. Lockhart. That is how
the system works, and it is also why television shows come and
go with all the regularity of morning coffee."

ECDL:

McVay, you're so full of crap, I suggest you go to the washroom
because the crap is coming through the screen and not out of your
ass.

The rest of your sorry-ass excuses for oppression and censorship
have been deleted, I just hate puking in the middle of reading one
of your ass-kissing posts defending the undefendable.

Why don't you just come out and say you would rather lie on the
InterNet than sell milk for a living.

How can you sleep at night?

The Euro-Christian Defence League
P.O. Box 345 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, R3C 2H6
24 Hr Hotline (204) 775-0878

Visit our Web Site at:
http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/ecdl/homepage.html

Or visit the Freedom Site at:
http://www.pathcom.com/~freedom/



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