The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/l/lemire.marc/1995/lemire.0995


[Lemire's bloated signature file deleted, encoded gifs
deleted, file lists deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Wed Sep  6 23:03:05 PDT 1995
Article: 6304 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!dispatch.news.demon.net!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!news.unb.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!ts2-11
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 95 06:34:09 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <42jfa7$al7@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>  <4244d3$l6@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2-11.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca can.motss:3046 alt.discrimination:35035 alt.revisionism:6304 alt.politics.white-power:1638 alt.politics.nationalism.white:1268


>In article <4244d3$l6@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> Also if you advocate any more illegal activity against either me or Mr. 
>> Saunders we will foward all of your messages to the Toronto Police 
Department.
>> 
>
>While you're at it why don't you forward your libelous claims in regards
>to the Totonto Sun's "Zundel article" as well? Let's see which one the
>police act on first....


Your confusing 2 different parts of the law.

It is a criminal offence to harrass someone.  But it is a civil offence to 
Libel someone.


Marc


[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Wed Sep  6 23:03:06 PDT 1995
Article: 6305 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.bc.net!torn!news.unb.ca!coranto.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!ts2-11
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,can.politics,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Lemire's right.. again!
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 95 06:39:15 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <42jfjp$al7@inforamp.net>
References: <3vt1s4$rtn@inforamp.net> <40sjf0$kil@inforamp.net>  <40v6ku$ss0@inforamp.net> <412mf5$ejo@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>   <424550$10s@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2-11.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:6305 alt.politics.white-power:1639 alt.politics.nationalism.white:1269 can.politics:2031 alt.skinheads:2370


>In article <424550$10s@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> It just shows that you people have nothing really to say.  If all you can 
do 
>> is flame be because of a few typos...  It shows you have NO real arguement.
>
>No, Marc, it simply shows that your posts have so little merit that we are
>reduced to amusing ourselves with commenting on your literary handicaps. 


Unfortunatley your wrong.  I have so many typos because I am trying to answer 
all my mail before becoming too tired to continue.  I type too fast and don't 
have time to re-read my messages before posting them.  It is not because I 
have "literary handicaps" as you are claiming.  Also take into consideration 
that I also get another 200 messages on my BBS and through my E-Mail sites.

I wish there were 30 hours in a day!

Marc



[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Wed Sep 13 19:46:05 PDT 1995
Article: 7166 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!en.com!news.crosslink.net!news2.net99.net!news.cais.net!wb3ffv!aplcenmp!night.primate.wisc.edu!ames!lll-winken.llnl.gov!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!ts2-11
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish,soc.history
Subject: Re: An open response to Ken McVay (Re: An Open Letter to Greg Raven)
Date: Wed, 06 Sep 95 05:36:34 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 87
Message-ID: <42jbu9$al7@inforamp.net>
References: <41iq6c$809@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <41nvsv$nq9@calvino.alaska.net> <41u172$hm0@mail.inforamp.net> <41veb4$6d8@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2-11.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:7166 alt.politics.white-power:2260 alt.politics.nationalism.white:1780 talk.politics.misc:268582 soc.culture.jewish:4425 soc.history:1163

>In article <41u172$hm0@mail.inforamp.net> cpn@euphoria.com (Marc Lemire) 
writes:
>>>kmcvay@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC) wrote:


Funny how McVay has not responded.



>>>>We have explained that we believe in presenting all facets of
>>>>the issue of the Holocaust, and the neo-Nazi-inspired attempts
>>>>to trivialize it. Mr. Raven, although you _claim_ to
>>>>desire "open debate" on "both sides of the story," quite
>>>>clearly you do not; if you did, you would provide links to _all_
>>>>Holocaust-related sites.
>
>>Really McVay.  Why is it you will not put our material on your WWW or FTP 
site.  

>Why should he?  It's not yur site, nor does he make any claims that 
>"all sides" are to be represented there.

Then he should shut up and stop asking Mr. Raven to put a link to his material 
on Mr. Ravens WWW site.


>>I put your material on my BBS which has over 700 users, but you cannot 
>>in return put even a single file of mine on your FTP site.
>
>Again, so what?  McVay is not running a debating club.  

Ofcourse he is.   All he does is either post material or argue about material 
or messages posted here.  Come on buddy.... wake up!


>>I have even offered to pay whatever it would cost to put the material on.  
But 
>>still you are unwilling.
>
>And rightly so.  He's not interested in using a phony "all sides of the 
>debate" tactic to legitimize a "debate" that exists only among those who
>routinely falsify history.

Then why does he post messages asking Mr. Raven to give all sides of the issue 
a try.

Come on, wake up.



>>I think you should take your foot out of your mouth. (again!)
>
>Nice try.  You don't seem to have grasped the essential distinction:
>Raven's trying to legitimize his lies via phony claims of objectivity.
>McVay's purpose is clear: to expose the lies of Raven and you and your
>ilk.


Mr ilk.   What is my ilk?  Can you please name everyone of them for me?





Marc



[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 17:10:24 PDT 1995
Article: 2548 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!pipeline!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,soc.culture.jewish,soc.history
Subject: Re: An open response to Ken McVay (Re: An Open Letter to Greg Raven)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:38:58 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <43p1ra$9v8@inforamp.net>
References: <41iq6c$809@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <41nvsv$nq9@calvino.alaska.net> <41u172$hm0@mail.inforamp.net> <41veb4$6d8@cnn.Princeton.EDU> <42jbu9$al7@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8557 alt.politics.white-power:3480 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2548 talk.politics.misc:272632 soc.culture.jewish:6426 soc.history:1496

>> 
>> Funny how McVay has not responded.
>> 
>
>Funny you should talk, little man. You have consistently refused to answer
>a number of questions regarding your false statements regarding the JAR
>among other things, and in fact, I have not seen your odious postings in
>over a week now. Running scared?


Nope, I have had some computer problems.  Since upgrading to Windows 95, I 
have had some problems with my motherboard and my HDD's.  Now that I have the 
32 bit Windows Winsock working, I will be posting more often.


>> Mr ilk.   What is my ilk?  Can you please name everyone of them for me?
>
>Beady eyed little children who have nothing better to do than push hate
>filled propaganda on the population at large. 
>Your hero, Zundel, is a prime example. 


This must be more of your 'facts' .... eh Ghandi?

I have written to UseNet before that Zundel is NOT my hero, but still you try 
to say he is.  Please get you stuff straight before wasting your time here.

>Your friends Charles Scott, 
>Greg Raven, 
>Alexander Baron 


Here you go again.  making up stuff 'eh?

First of all.   I do not even know Charles Scott.  I ahve never spoken to him, 
never contacted him or for that matter really know anything about him.

Greg Raven, I only know of since he posts to UseNet some times.  He also runs 
a nice WWW site which I have been to once or twice.  But to say he is my 
friend is crazy.  I have never spoken to him and have also never contacted 
him.

And Mr. Baron.  Well, same thing as Mr. Raven.  I only know him from UseNet.



Stop making up things, Ghandi.  


Marc


[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:09 PDT 1995
Article: 8591 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists...  EXPOSED...
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:20:20 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 163
Message-ID: <43p0od$9v8@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> <60.11529.4662.0N1F1CB7@canrem.com> <4244l5$l6@inforamp.net> <4256at$msl@linet02.li.net> <42jgos$al7@inforamp.net>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:52248 alt.discrimination:35790 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2562 alt.politics.white-power:3510 alt.revisionism:8591

>HAPLO (haplo@idirect.com) wrote:
>: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the 
>: police?
>: >
>
>:     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking 
>: the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and 
>: people.
>
>
>    Oh PLEASE may I see some documentation on these numerous attacks on Homes
>    and people?

... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist 
terrorism


- IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be creative! 
These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run by 
Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto

-Toronto Sun July 21, 1995  "Cops scurry to get handle on bombers.... 
Anti-Fascist Militia a riddle"

-Toronto Sun July 27, 1995 "Terrorists 'prepared to kill' (About mail bomb 
being send to right wingers and racists)

-Toronto Star July 28, 1995  "B.C. group says it sent letter bombs" reguarding 
the letter bombs being send to Ernst Zundel and others

-This magazine Nov 1994 issue "I hate you back" by Clive Thompson.  About 
Anti-Racist Action become very violent

-Globe and Mail July 27, 1995.  "Group reveals why it mailed bombs"  about the 
mail bombs to Zundel and Aryan Nations

-Globe and Mail Feb 10, 1995.  "Anti-Racist movement grows more violent" by 
John Barber

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1981 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents 
in the US.  They claim Jewish groups have committed 29 terrorist incidents 
>from  1977 to 1981.

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents 
in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts that 
year.

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing of 
Ernst Zundel's house

-Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of 
Holocaust-denier Zundel"

-Montreal Gazette, May 9, 1995  "Police hunt Zundel arsonist" about 
firebombing of his house

-Rochester Democrat & Chronicle May 8, 1995  "Neo-Nazi's house burns"  About 
the Zundel house firebombing

-Globe and Mail May 22, 1995  "Police explode parcel bomb mailed to Zundel 
last week"  About the letter bombs he recieved in the mail by Anti-Facist 
militia

-Now Magazine May 18-24, 1995.  "JDL pays visit to Zundel Fortress"  about Irv 
Rubin of the Jewish Defence League trying to hop over Zundel's wooden 
baracade.

-Edmonton Sunday Sun, May 21, 1995.  "Zundel cheats death"  FRONT PAGE STORY
about the pipe bombg mailed to Zundel

-Toronto Sun,  Feb 8, 1995.  "Heritage Front Targeted"  About a crazy 
leftist/ARA person who had a stolen crossbow, .357 ammunition, bomb-making 
books and the ingredients to make one.  This person also had a list of 
Heritage Front members homes and licence plates.

-Toronto Sun Dec 24, 1992  "Jewish Radicals in Metro"  Refering to the new 
Jewish Defence league chapter opening in Toronto.  In the article the JDL says 
that they are here to "Strike terror into the hearts of Neo-Nazi's"

-Toronto Sun March 15, 1978 "Zionist fanatics stalk hated enemy".  In the 
article he quotes these Jews as saying ... there is "No shame in killing for 
Israel"

-Toronto Sun July 25, 1995  "Left looks away from terror"  By Jewish Toronto 
Sun reporter Lorrie Goldstein.  He tells a scary tale of leftist violence in 
Canada

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995  "The damage comes from the Left"  Talks about the 
past year of leftist terrorism.

-The Book "Cheif"  by New York crime detective Albert A. Seedman.  In his book 
he talks about the JDL making bombs on the same floor where JDL founder Kahane 
worked.

-Toronto Sun Feb 5, 1995  "Anti-Racist mob 3"  talks about ARA types jumping 
3 skinheads who they thought were Nazi's.  The paper says that the leftists 
began "harrassing, taunting and intimidating" these three people who they 
thought were Nazi's.  The leftists hit one of the suspected Nazi's over the 
head with a steel pipe.  The leftists also had 18 people to the 3 suspected 
Nazi's.

-The Outlook, May 28, 1994  "Former SF policeman enters no-contest plea in 
surveillance case"  Talks about the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defimation league 
illegially spying of right-Wing activists and Skinheads.

-North Shore News, May 19, 1993  "Jackboots of the Left stomping on freedom"  
By Doug Collins

-Toronto Star, June 12, 1993  "Anti-Racist mob trashes home"  This is when the 
ARA marched and trashed the home of Gary Schipper, who was the voice of the 
Heritage Hotline.  In that attack they caused aroUND $80,000 DAMAGE

-Toronto Sun July 15, 1995.  "Terror cell targeting far right.... bomb mailed 
to T.O. Firm linked to 4 month campain"  This article is about the group that 
was mailing letter bombs to right-wing activists like Ernst Zundel and the 
Aryan Nations.

-The Zionist Terror Network.... background and operations of the Jewish 
Defence League.  Written by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR)

-Penthouse.  "Never Again Jewish Zealots train for combat...  Twenty years 
ago, Rabbi Meir Kahane founded the JDL.. Today, its younger leaders have taken 
it to extremes even he deplores"

-New York Post, Sept, 1985.  "JDL owns up to bloody bombing at "Nazi" home"

-New York Post, May 9, 1987.  "JDL honcho seized in Opera bombing"

-Toronto Sun June 26, 1981.  "Anti-Jewish group bombed"  This is about the 
fire at the IHR which caused around a MILLION dollard damage

-Newsday, Nov 9 1985.  "FBI blames JDL in 3 blasts"



Well that should change your mind about who the real terrorists are.


Marc


[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:10 PDT 1995
Article: 8592 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: SHUT DOWN HATE BBS
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 11:26:06 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <43otim$9v8@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> <60.11529.4662.0N1F1CB7@canrem.com> <4244l5$l6@inforamp.net> <4256at$msl@linet02.li.net> <42jgos$al7@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.discrimination:35791 alt.revisionism:8592 alt.politics.white-power:3511 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2563 alt.censorship:52249

>On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:
>> Thank you.  If he are anyone tries to do any sort of illegial activities 
>> against either of our BBS's, we will prosecute.
>
>Wait a minute. Are you for or against Big Brother?
>
>Do you or do you not believe that all governments and police agencies are
>in subservience to 'ZOG'; if so why are you calling the police.


NO I do not believe that the Police are agents of 'Zog'


>I thought so many of the posts here claimed that the 'white race' was 
>being 
>
>victimized but here we go again with the neo-nazis running and sniveling 
>
>to the police.


I am sorry, but you are mistaken.  I am not running and sniveling to the 
Police.  I simply stated that if any person tries to commit illegial 
activities against me, that I will inform the police.

What is wrong with that?



>You cannot have it both ways. Either the 'system' is helping and protecting
>you or it is in your way and harassing you.

I think you are way off here, buddy.  I have never claimed these thingsm so 
please don't put words in my mouth.


>Marc Lemire, do you believe there is a ZOG conspiracy to destroy the 
>
>'white race' or not?


No I do not. I DO NOT THINK THERE IS A 'ZOG' CONSPIRACY AGAINST ANYONE.




>If not why does your bbs carry so much material from those who do?

My BBS is a huge datebase of files and messages.  If people who are users of 
my bbs believe in that (which I have not seen yet), they are free to have 
their own opinion.  That is what the message conferences are all about.  We 
discuss issues like this.

And just because a users on my BBS has these views, how on earth do you 
connect them with me.  



>> I have also installed some new PPE's that will take my phone off the hook 
and 
>> dial *69 (which alerts the police to the last caller of my number) and then 
>> the police take it from there.
>> I will not be intimidated by anyone!
>
>TRANSLATION: I and my racist buddies will constantly whine and complain
>about how the system is set up against us but in reality
>we are constantly getting money from CSIS and other government agencies
>as well as total police protection and cooperation.

Gee I wish.  UNfortunatly you are again way off.  I neither get money from 
CSIS (except for a free lunch from Grant Bristow) or any other government 
agency to run my BBS.  I also have not gotten any police protection or 
cooperation.



Marc

[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:11 PDT 1995
Article: 8593 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.discrimination,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.censorship
Subject: Re: Marc Lemire runs to the police (was Re: SHUT DOWN HATE BBS)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 11:32:09 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 65
Message-ID: <43otu1$9v8@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> <60.11529.4662.0N1F1CB7@canrem.com> <4244l5$l6@inforamp.net> <4256at$msl@linet02.li.net> <42jgos$al7@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.discrimination:35792 alt.revisionism:8593 alt.politics.white-power:3512 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2564 alt.censorship:52250

>On Wed, 6 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:
>> Thank you.  If he are anyone tries to do any sort of illegial activities 
>> against either of our BBS's, we will prosecute.
>
>Illegal activities, huh? What about those activities by your buddies?
>Will you report the No Remorse (if they are around still) drug dealers 
>to the police?


Who the hell are the 'No Remorse' drug dealers.  

I have never heard of them.  But it sounds as if you have been buying too much 
>from  them.



>When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the police?


It is usually the other way around, buddy.  Most of the time it is 
'Anti-racists' or 'Leftist' who are the attackers, not the so-called 'racists'


>> the police take it from there.
>> I will not be intimidated by anyone!
>> Marc
>
>That's right. Skins attack others with impunity but you face anything
>and you run to the cops.

Your crazy!   No person can attack ANYONE with impunity.  NO matter what their 
political or social beliefs are.  NO ONE.


>Whine about the suppresion of the 'white race' and then turn around
>and suck hard at the state's teat. Just typical of the neo-nazi types.
>Total hypocrisy and no credibility.

Again...  YOUR CRAZY!!!



Marc


[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:12 PDT 1995
Article: 8596 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Marc Lemire runs to the police (was Re: SHUT DOWN HATE BBS)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:32:12 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 141
Message-ID: <43p1ej$9v8@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> <60.11529.4662.0N1F1CB7@canrem.com> <4244l5$l6@inforamp.net> <4256at$msl@linet02.li.net> <42jgos$al7@inforamp.net>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:52254 alt.discrimination:35796 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2566 alt.politics.white-power:3516 alt.revisionism:8596

>On 12 Sep 1995, HAPLO wrote:
>
>> >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the 
>> police?
>> >
>> 
>>     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking 
>> the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and 
>> people.
>
>So the video of demonstration in Toronto
>where you see a six foot two  200 lbs guy taking after a 5 0" 110 lbs woman
>was entirely computer generated?

?????....  I live in Toronto here and have never seen what you are describing.

Is this another of your delusions?


>And the murder of Leo LaChance by Carney Nerland (aka Kurt Meyer) was
>a hoax?
>
>The video of Nerland et al pointing rifles and automatic weapons
>
>at deomstrators in Alberta was also computer generated.

Never heard of this one either.



>And the firebombing of Turkish refugees resulting in the deaths of 
>children and their parents is also a hoax?


The firebombing of Zundels house, Mail bombs to Zundel, Aryan Nations and a 
host of others, the killing of people by the JDL, the burning down of the IHR, 
the ARA in Toronto threatning and beating up three people who they thought 
were Nazi skinheads....


The Left are the Terrorists....  Not the Right!







> All this to try and STOP FREE Speech. Mr. Zundel has never done 
>> anything except voice his opinion.
>
>
>And allign himself with violent thugs.

What violent thugs are you talking about??



> And for this He has been Attacksed, 
>> Bomed, And Had his house set on fire.
>
>
>
>It has yet to be determined who did this.


The point is... He was attached due to his political beliefs.  Which in a 
"Free" society is completly wrong and shows how violent some Jewish groups and 
the Leftist groups are.



> Then there is Gary Shipper Who  had 
>>  a "Peaceful" ara protest outside his house. When they left his home was 
>> in ruins. there wasn;t a Windows that wasn;t smashed. And this was 
>> another atempt to Stop FREE SPEECH.  
>> 
>
>
>Shipper does not believe in free speech.

What are you talking about....  from talking to him and listening to his 
hotline, he is a huge advocate of Free Speech.

Please get your 'facts' straight.



>That is not what the swastika represents.

There are many interpritations on what the Swastika means.  Some oriental 
groups still use it, it was soem kind of a ruin.. blah blah.


What do you think the Swastika means?



>> >> the police take it from there.
>> >> I will not be intimidated by anyone!
>> >> Marc
>> >
>Still have not answered why 
>
>
>neo-nazis complain about zog
>and then turn to the same system to protect them.


You like to put others word in my mouth don't you.  I have NEVER said anything 
about Zog, but yet you are trying to act as if I have and are trying to use it 
against me.

Nice try... but try something else.  maybe those made up-facts of yours will 
come in handy.



Marc

[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:13 PDT 1995
Article: 8655 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: More of Mcvays whining about Zundel ...was (Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 08:07:11 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 77
Message-ID: <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-10.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:2615 alt.politics.white-power:3578 alt.revisionism:8655 ont.general:21591

haplo@idirect.com (HAPLO) wrote:
>
>>You really want to do is slander and poke fun at them. You ask why Mr. 
>>Zundel will not debate You. It is CHEAP SHOTS like this One that are the 
>>reason. 
>
>When Mr. Zuendel claims, as he has for years, that he has been
>denied "free and open" discussion of the Holocaust, and while
>that free and open discussion has been continuing, unabated,
>on UseNet for four years, one might instead surmise that Mr.
>Zuendel has no real interest in the "free and open" discussion
>of anything, let alone the Holocaust.
>
>One might surmise, perhaps incorrectly, that Mr. Zuendel is a
>coward.
>
>He can, of course, prove me wrong, and participate in the free
>and open discussions in alt.revisionism.

Seems like you are going to keep poking shots at Zundel until he does... eh 
Kenny-boy?


>As to who insults who, I suggest you peruse Mr. Zuendel's
>latest response to Jamie McCarthy... I trust he will have
>posted it to his Web site by now (if not, we'll help him out
>by posting it to the net). Compare it with Mr. McCarthy's
>correspondence with Mr. Zuendel, and decide who is behaving
>like a petulant, insulting child. 
>
>Zuendel has access to UseNet, and he is afraid to participate
>- _that_ is the long and short of it, Alex.


That is your opinion Mr. McVay.  

Just because Mr. Zundel is not participating right now maybe because of other 
reasons.  Take that he is trying to fix his house right now.  There are 
workmen and loud noises all day.  It would make it very hard to concentrate 
for long periods of time, which is what he would have to do.

Also consider that this debate in Usenet is probibly not a top concern to him. 
Don't forget he publishes News Letters in 4 languages every month.  And each 
langueage is different.  That takes quite alot of time.  

Then factor in all the Interviews he does, plus all his other work.

Now you see the dilema he faces before entering UseNet.


Before you go shooting off your mouth, maybe you should stop and think about 
what you are saying for a second.


Marc



[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:14 PDT 1995
Article: 8656 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 08:11:52 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <43tqud$7vs@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <434vhd$2i2@ionews.io.org>  <43a11v$e4q@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43p285$9v8@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-10.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:9463 alt.illuminati:8900 alt.politics.correct:57912 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2616 alt.politics.white-power:3579 alt.revisionism:8656 alt.skinheads:3359 can.general:51691 can.legal:8342 can.politics:4263 ont.general:21592

>Lemire,
>
>> I don't want to speak for Zundel, but he is quite a busy man and joining 
such 
>> a debate here is quite time consuming. 
>
>You don't want to "speak" for him, but you'll make _excuses_ for him, eh?


It is not an excuse, but he is a very busy man, and just because of bunch of 
you people what a shot at Zundel does not mean he is going to drop everything 
for you.

What a selfish attitude you have.


>How fortunate that your brown nose will match your brown shirt. 

More of your crap.  

Why do you have to constantly call me names like a little baby?

Get a life.....


Marc


[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:14 PDT 1995
Article: 8667 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.politics
Subject: More of Ghandi's non-stop drivil
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 08:59:05 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 215
Message-ID: <43ttn0$883@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8667 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2625 alt.politics.white-power:3588 alt.skinheads:3365 can.general:51705 can.politics:4276

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
alt.censorship,
alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt
revisionism)

> 
> host of others, the killing of people by the JDL

OK, little man, once again you make these assertions without any
supporting evidence. Please be so kind as to provide some.

OK I wrote up a message that I posted before, but since you missed it I'll 
repost it in this message and as a message on it's own.


From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination
Subject: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists...  EXPOSED...


>HAPLO (haplo@idirect.com) wrote:

>: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the
>: police?
>: >
>
>:     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking
>: the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and
>: people.
>
>
>    Oh PLEASE may I see some documentation on these numerous attacks on Homes
>    and people?

... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist
terrorism


- IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be creative!
These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run by
Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto

-Toronto Sun July 21, 1995  "Cops scurry to get handle on bombers....
Anti-Fascist Militia a riddle"

-Toronto Sun July 27, 1995 "Terrorists 'prepared to kill' (About mail bomb
being send to right wingers and racists)

-Toronto Star July 28, 1995  "B.C. group says it sent letter bombs" reguarding
the letter bombs being send to Ernst Zundel and others

-This magazine Nov 1994 issue "I hate you back" by Clive Thompson.  About
Anti-Racist Action become very violent

-Globe and Mail July 27, 1995.  "Group reveals why it mailed bombs"  about the
mail bombs to Zundel and Aryan Nations

-Globe and Mail Feb 10, 1995.  "Anti-Racist movement grows more violent" by
John Barber

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1981 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US.  They claim Jewish groups have committed 29 terrorist incidents
>from  1977 to 1981.

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts that
year.

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing of
Ernst Zundel's house

-Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
Holocaust-denier Zundel"

-Montreal Gazette, May 9, 1995  "Police hunt Zundel arsonist" about
firebombing of his house

-Rochester Democrat & Chronicle May 8, 1995  "Neo-Nazi's house burns"  About
the Zundel house firebombing

-Globe and Mail May 22, 1995  "Police explode parcel bomb mailed to Zundel
last week"  About the letter bombs he recieved in the mail by Anti-Facist
militia

-Now Magazine May 18-24, 1995.  "JDL pays visit to Zundel Fortress"  about Irv
Rubin of the Jewish Defence League trying to hop over Zundel's wooden
baracade.

-Edmonton Sunday Sun, May 21, 1995.  "Zundel cheats death"  FRONT PAGE STORY
about the pipe bombg mailed to Zundel

-Toronto Sun,  Feb 8, 1995.  "Heritage Front Targeted"  About a crazy
leftist/ARA person who had a stolen crossbow, .357 ammunition, bomb-making
books and the ingredients to make one.  This person also had a list of
Heritage Front members homes and licence plates.

-Toronto Sun Dec 24, 1992  "Jewish Radicals in Metro"  Refering to the new
Jewish Defence league chapter opening in Toronto.  In the article the JDL says
that they are here to "Strike terror into the hearts of Neo-Nazi's"

-Toronto Sun March 15, 1978 "Zionist fanatics stalk hated enemy".  In the
article he quotes these Jews as saying ... there is "No shame in killing for
Israel"

-Toronto Sun July 25, 1995  "Left looks away from terror"  By Jewish Toronto
Sun reporter Lorrie Goldstein.  He tells a scary tale of leftist violence in
Canada

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995  "The damage comes from the Left"  Talks about the
past year of leftist terrorism.

-The Book "Cheif"  by New York crime detective Albert A. Seedman.  In his book
he talks about the JDL making bombs on the same floor where JDL founder Kahane
worked.

-Toronto Sun Feb 5, 1995  "Anti-Racist mob 3"  talks about ARA types jumping
3 skinheads who they thought were Nazi's.  The paper says that the leftists
began "harrassing, taunting and intimidating" these three people who they
thought were Nazi's.  The leftists hit one of the suspected Nazi's over the
head with a steel pipe.  The leftists also had 18 people to the 3 suspected
Nazi's.

-The Outlook, May 28, 1994  "Former SF policeman enters no-contest plea in
surveillance case"  Talks about the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defimation league
illegially spying of right-Wing activists and Skinheads.

-North Shore News, May 19, 1993  "Jackboots of the Left stomping on freedom"
By Doug Collins

-Toronto Star, June 12, 1993  "Anti-Racist mob trashes home"  This is when the
ARA marched and trashed the home of Gary Schipper, who was the voice of the
Heritage Hotline.  In that attack they caused aroUND $80,000 DAMAGE

-Toronto Sun July 15, 1995.  "Terror cell targeting far right.... bomb mailed
to T.O. Firm linked to 4 month campain"  This article is about the group that
was mailing letter bombs to right-wing activists like Ernst Zundel and the
Aryan Nations.

-The Zionist Terror Network.... background and operations of the Jewish
Defence League.  Written by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR)

-Penthouse.  "Never Again Jewish Zealots train for combat...  Twenty years
ago, Rabbi Meir Kahane founded the JDL.. Today, its younger leaders have taken
it to extremes even he deplores"

-New York Post, Sept, 1985.  "JDL owns up to bloody bombing at "Nazi" home"

-New York Post, May 9, 1987.  "JDL honcho seized in Opera bombing"

-Toronto Sun June 26, 1981.  "Anti-Jewish group bombed"  This is about the
fire at the IHR which caused around a MILLION dollar damage

-Newsday, Nov 9 1985.  "FBI blames JDL in 3 blasts"



Well that should change your mind about who the real terrorists are.


Marc

_____________________________________________________________________________



> The point is... He was attached due to his political beliefs.  Which in a 
> "Free" society is completly wrong and shows how violent some Jewish
groups and 
> the Leftist groups are.

Zundel's infatuation with the Nazi philosophy and with the UFOs which
arise thereof in no way demonstrate the 'violent', as you so blandly put
it,  nature of some Jewish and Leftist groups.

While I do not doubt that there are groups which may be classified by some
as terrorist, and that these same groups may have a politically left
agenda, you do need to familiarize yourself with the process of logical
and rational thought.

I am sure YOU are the one who needs to familiarize yourself with the process 
of logical and RATIONAL thought.


there is no direct connection between Zundel and the violent nature that
you claim exists in many Jewish and/or leftist organizations. So, little
man, please provide some sort of evidence for the claims you make. 


Well read the text file above and you will see how Leftist/Jewish groups 
target Mr. Zundel.


Marc



[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:15 PDT 1995
Article: 8668 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism....  EXPOSED.
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 09:00:53 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 166
Message-ID: <43ttqb$883@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8668 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2626 alt.politics.white-power:3589 alt.discrimination:35821 alt.skinheads:3366 can.politics:4277 can.general:51706

From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination
Subject: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists...  EXPOSED...


>HAPLO (haplo@idirect.com) wrote:

>: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the
>: police?
>: >
>
>:     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking
>: the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and
>: people.
>
>
>    Oh PLEASE may I see some documentation on these numerous attacks on Homes
>    and people?

... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist
terrorism


- IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be creative!
These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run by
Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto

-Toronto Sun July 21, 1995  "Cops scurry to get handle on bombers....
Anti-Fascist Militia a riddle"

-Toronto Sun July 27, 1995 "Terrorists 'prepared to kill' (About mail bomb
being send to right wingers and racists)

-Toronto Star July 28, 1995  "B.C. group says it sent letter bombs" reguarding
the letter bombs being send to Ernst Zundel and others

-This magazine Nov 1994 issue "I hate you back" by Clive Thompson.  About
Anti-Racist Action become very violent

-Globe and Mail July 27, 1995.  "Group reveals why it mailed bombs"  about the
mail bombs to Zundel and Aryan Nations

-Globe and Mail Feb 10, 1995.  "Anti-Racist movement grows more violent" by
John Barber

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1981 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US.  They claim Jewish groups have committed 29 terrorist incidents
>from  1977 to 1981.

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts that
year.

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing of
Ernst Zundel's house

-Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
Holocaust-denier Zundel"

-Montreal Gazette, May 9, 1995  "Police hunt Zundel arsonist" about
firebombing of his house

-Rochester Democrat & Chronicle May 8, 1995  "Neo-Nazi's house burns"  About
the Zundel house firebombing

-Globe and Mail May 22, 1995  "Police explode parcel bomb mailed to Zundel
last week"  About the letter bombs he recieved in the mail by Anti-Facist
militia

-Now Magazine May 18-24, 1995.  "JDL pays visit to Zundel Fortress"  about Irv
Rubin of the Jewish Defence League trying to hop over Zundel's wooden
baracade.

-Edmonton Sunday Sun, May 21, 1995.  "Zundel cheats death"  FRONT PAGE STORY
about the pipe bombg mailed to Zundel

-Toronto Sun,  Feb 8, 1995.  "Heritage Front Targeted"  About a crazy
leftist/ARA person who had a stolen crossbow, .357 ammunition, bomb-making
books and the ingredients to make one.  This person also had a list of
Heritage Front members homes and licence plates.

-Toronto Sun Dec 24, 1992  "Jewish Radicals in Metro"  Refering to the new
Jewish Defence league chapter opening in Toronto.  In the article the JDL says
that they are here to "Strike terror into the hearts of Neo-Nazi's"

-Toronto Sun March 15, 1978 "Zionist fanatics stalk hated enemy".  In the
article he quotes these Jews as saying ... there is "No shame in killing for
Israel"

-Toronto Sun July 25, 1995  "Left looks away from terror"  By Jewish Toronto
Sun reporter Lorrie Goldstein.  He tells a scary tale of leftist violence in
Canada

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995  "The damage comes from the Left"  Talks about the
past year of leftist terrorism.

-The Book "Cheif"  by New York crime detective Albert A. Seedman.  In his book
he talks about the JDL making bombs on the same floor where JDL founder Kahane
worked.

-Toronto Sun Feb 5, 1995  "Anti-Racist mob 3"  talks about ARA types jumping
3 skinheads who they thought were Nazi's.  The paper says that the leftists
began "harrassing, taunting and intimidating" these three people who they
thought were Nazi's.  The leftists hit one of the suspected Nazi's over the
head with a steel pipe.  The leftists also had 18 people to the 3 suspected
Nazi's.

-The Outlook, May 28, 1994  "Former SF policeman enters no-contest plea in
surveillance case"  Talks about the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defimation league
illegially spying of right-Wing activists and Skinheads.

-North Shore News, May 19, 1993  "Jackboots of the Left stomping on freedom"
By Doug Collins

-Toronto Star, June 12, 1993  "Anti-Racist mob trashes home"  This is when the
ARA marched and trashed the home of Gary Schipper, who was the voice of the
Heritage Hotline.  In that attack they caused aroUND $80,000 DAMAGE

-Toronto Sun July 15, 1995.  "Terror cell targeting far right.... bomb mailed
to T.O. Firm linked to 4 month campain"  This article is about the group that
was mailing letter bombs to right-wing activists like Ernst Zundel and the
Aryan Nations.

-The Zionist Terror Network.... background and operations of the Jewish
Defence League.  Written by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR)

-Penthouse.  "Never Again Jewish Zealots train for combat...  Twenty years
ago, Rabbi Meir Kahane founded the JDL.. Today, its younger leaders have taken
it to extremes even he deplores"

-New York Post, Sept, 1985.  "JDL owns up to bloody bombing at "Nazi" home"

-New York Post, May 9, 1987.  "JDL honcho seized in Opera bombing"

-Toronto Sun June 26, 1981.  "Anti-Jewish group bombed"  This is about the
fire at the IHR which caused around a MILLION dollar damage

-Newsday, Nov 9 1985.  "FBI blames JDL in 3 blasts"



Well that should change your mind about who the real terrorists are.


Marc

[huge signature inclusion deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:16 PDT 1995
Article: 8672 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!psinntp!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Marc Lemire runs to the police (was Re: SHUT DOWN HATE BBS)
Date: Wed, 20 Sep 95 12:41:21 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <43p1vq$9v8@inforamp.net>
References:  <4388c1$a7p@dns.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-06.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>>   Lester Toews  writes:
 
>>  So the video of demonstration in Toronto
>>  
>>  
>>  where you see a six foot two  200 lbs guy taking after a 5 0" 110 lbs 
woman
>>  
>>  
>>  was entirely computer generated?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  And the murder of Leo LaChance by Carney Nerland (aka Kurt Meyer) was
>>  
>>  a hoax?
>>  
>>  The video of Nerland et al pointing rifles and automatic weapons
>>  
>>  at deomstrators in Alberta was also computer generated.
>>  
>>  
>>  And the firebombing of Turkish refugees resulting in the deaths of 
>>  children 
>>  
>>  and their parents is also a hoax?
>>  
>>   
>>>>>
>   To this list you may add the Freeman brothers from Allentown  PA.  When 
their 
>parents objected to their membership in the National Alliance (LeMire's 
favorite 
>political action group),  the Freeman brothers had a simple solution.  With 
the 
>assistance of their cousin -- another National Alliance member -- they lay in 
wait 
>and beat their parents to death with clubs.  To insure silence during their 
political 
>statement, two of them held their 11 year old brother down while the third 
beat 
>him to death.




More lies...    When have I ever claimed that the National Alliance is my 
favorite group.

Any you may come up with a few examples of Rightwing violence, but it is no 
where near what Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racists groups have caused.

Get to the facts....


Marc



[huge signature inclusion deleted]


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:18 PDT 1995
Article: 8678 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles List from Digital Freedom....  READ THIS!!!!
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 09:58:00 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 516
Message-ID: <43u15j$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8678 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2636 alt.politics.white-power:3605 alt.skinheads:3371 alt.discrimination:35828


                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.

If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[1] Text Files (General)                                           [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
FTP9508.ZIP    359084  09-17-95  Issue 8, 1995 of the Internet FTP (file) site
                               | listings
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
GWAR.ZIP        22395  09-17-95  Info on the heavy-metal band GWAR, a
                               | hilarious "Frank Zappa" of metal.  Includes
                               | discography and amusing "bios" of the
                               | members.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
TOCALL10.ZIP   104318  09-17-95  Toronto Calling, release 10 (April 1995).
                               | Dave Leibold's collection of text files about
                               | the telephone and telecommunications
                               | business. Everything you ever wanted to know
                               | about how your phone works!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WRKHOMIC.ZIP     8642  09-17-95  WORKHOMI.ARJ v - WORKPLACE HOMICIDES - Is
                               | your workplace at risk ?  Check out this text
                               | file describing the mental background of
                               | workers who commit workplace homicides.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BY-EMAIL.ZIP    21242  09-09-95  Access the Internet functions with Email only
                               | Uploaded by: Nick Smith
D&DREBUT.TXT    17211  08-31-95  A textfile rebuttal to D&DOCCLT.TXT, which
                               | has
                               | been circulating in religious BBSes against
                               | the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy-fiction
                               | role-playing game
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
CASPER.TXT       5271  08-25-95  Casper - More Then A Friendly Ghost...Based
                               | on The Recent Movie...
                               | Uploaded by: Dennis Macintyre
BBS#-AUG.ZIP   176238  08-24-95  Aug. 1995 Ontario BBS Listing by the
                               | International Programmer's Guild
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
COPYRIGH.LAW    29754  08-03-95  The American copywrite law
COPYRIGH.MUS    18610  08-03-95  Copywrite laws as they relate to musicians
FTP9506.ZIP    345701  07-23-95  July 1995 listing of Internet FTP file Sites
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TFNAGREE.TXT     6959  07-09-95  The application form for the Toronto
                               | Freenet. Read and fill this out, then
                               | send it in for access.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
COPYRITE.FAQ    14253  06-19-95  So what is copyright? And how does it affect
                               | the online community? Read this FAQ and find
                               | out! Know what your rights are, and if they
                               | are being broken. A good read for everyone
                               | concerned about censorship online.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
FRENCH.ZIP     109162  06-19-95  French vocabulary tutor. Learn some simple
                               | terms and words in French! Very good program
                               | that will help you learn an Aryan language.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
ERTHWACH.ZIP   185902  06-16-95  Earthwatch. Shareware.
                               | A program that shows you a map of the world
                               | and real-time information on it! See if the
                               | other side of the world is in night or day!
                               | CGA+ monitor
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
GERMAN.ZIP      69787  06-16-95  Learn some simple German vocabulary in your
                               | spare time! Fun and educational! Has hundreds
                               | of common words and multiple choice quizes.
                               | Works on any computer including XT!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
MRE02.FAQ       11883  06-16-95  FAQ for MRE (Meals Ready-To-Eat
                               | Uploaded by: Col. Kurtz
SUBWAY.ZIP       6080  06-16-95  The secrets of Toronto's Subway system
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BGI13.ZIP      106085  05-29-95  "The Beginner's Guide to the Internet" is a
                               | full-color, computer-based tutorial about the
                               | Internet. It is complete, covering email,
                               | ftp, telnet, gopher, Archie, Veronica, WAIS,
                               | WWW, USENET newsgroups, BITNET listservs, IRC
                               | and more. It is the only computer- based
                               | tutorial that gives you step-by-step
                               | instructions on how to do almost anything on
                               | the Internet. Perfect for Internet novices!
JESUSBBS.TXT    34234  05-29-95  Listing of Pro-Christian BBS's.  Mostly
                               | American.
FTP9504.ZIP    335543  05-19-95  The largest Internet FTP site listing
                               | May 1995
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
MISFITS1.ZIP    20476  05-02-95  All the lyrics from the punk band "Misfits"
                               | Fet. Glenn Danzig.  Also lyrics from Danzig's
                               | other band "Samhain"
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
WALK2.ZIP        4804  05-02-95  All the lyrics from the Misfits C.D. "Walk
                               | among Us"
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
MORBID2.ZIP     11507  04-04-95  These are the lyrics for the three Morbid
                               | Angel C.D.'s (Death Metal Band)
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BBS#-APR.ZIP   169396  04-03-95  The International Programmers Guild April '95
                               | BBS list.  Includes listing for the
                               | 416, 905, 519 and 403 area codes.  Also
                               | included in the zip is a program that turns
                               | each area code file into a Telix.FON file
                               | so it can be imported right into Telix
                               | 3.xx and higher
FREENET1.ZIP     7072  03-30-95  Listing of "FREENET" Systems to Obtain free
                               | INTERNET Access.
BBS_LAW.ZIP     21086  03-15-95  ********************************************
                               | CHAPTER 9: LEGAL ISSUES FACING THE BBS SYSOP
                               | ********************************************
                               | Version 0.9 - June 19, 1994.
CALGUIDE.ZIP    43880  03-15-95  An ASCII version of the Caller's Guide for
                               | PCBoard.  Intended to guide your callers
                               | through PCBoard for the first time, or to
                               | help the more knowledgeable caller refine his
                               | skills.  Formatted ASCII format may be
                               | imported into a word processor or printed
                               | directly as-is.  Copyright (C) 1993 Clark
                               | Development Company, Inc.
T_CO-OP.ZIP      2840  03-15-95  PROPOSAL FOR NEW KIND OF ACCESS TO INTERNET
                               | IN 416/905 AREA (METRO TORONTO) FORMING A
                               | GROUP OF PRIVATE CITIZENS IN A CO-OPERATIVE
                               | INTERNET VENTURE.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[2] Text Files-Political/Controversial                             [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
DIGITAL.ADD      2977  01-01-99       ****** DIGITAL FREEDOM ADD ******
                               | Download this and spread it around EVERYWHERE
HANDBOOK.CPN    42717  01-01-99  The Official Canadian Patriots Network
                               | Handbook. Filled with information about this
                               | leading Euro-Canadian organisation and packed
                               | with great tips, contacts and facts.
BLACKRES.ZIP    23933  09-21-95  Black Computer Resources
                               | such as Black-only BBS's and internet sites
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BMAOL2.TXT      59737  09-21-95  Banned Media and Organization List 2nd
                               | Edition
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
POST!!!!.TXT     5349  09-21-95  Most Ayrans are POSTjudiced, not prejudiced!
                               | An excellent argument against teh PCs.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
48HRS.ZIP        1108  09-17-95  48 HOURS program about how employers use
                               | Immigration loopholes to replace local
                               | workers with cheap foreigner's
                               | These companies are unpatriotic
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BCGOVJOB.ZIP     1530  09-17-95  British Colombia like most provinces and
                               | Canada's federal government gives hiring
                               | preferences to minorities
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
COMPINDU.ZIP     6561  09-17-95  Economic Analysis from the University of
                               | California.  Why there aren't new jobs in the
                               | Compupter industry in America (because
                               | employer's prefer to use immigration
                               | loopholes to get cheap foreign labour
                               | imported)  This analysis also applies to
                               | other industries besides computers, such as
                               | Electronics and Engineering and applies to
                               | Canada as because we have similar loopholes
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
DH_WTO.ZIP       3040  09-17-95  THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION: A THREAT TO
                               | AMERICAN (AND CONGRESSIONAL)* INDEPENDENCE
                               | ........................................* By
                               | Rep. Duncan Hunter (R.-CA)
                               | ........................................* To
                               | understand the WTO buried within the 22,000
                               | pages of GATT you need only to focus on four
                               | provisions...each, if accepted, would give
                               | away a piece of America's power and
                               | independence.
                               | ........................................*
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
HARNICK.TXT      4353  09-17-95  Charles Harnick, Jewish Attorney General of
                               | Ontario, has been caught out expressing
                               | a blatantly anti-democratic position.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
HHS.ZIP         12861  09-17-95  Monday Magazine, Victoria, B.C. Canada
                               | February 25 - March 3, 1993 Vol. 19 No. 9 How
                               | Hate Spreads And how a growing army of
                               | anti-racists in B.C. is marshalling to stop
                               | it.  By Bruce Grierson
ILLIMMDE.ZIP     3147  09-17-95  Subsidies overlooked in the Immigration
                               | debate - Statistics from California
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMICON24.ZIP    16769  09-17-95  This is Volume 2 Issue 4, the late
                               | September/95 issue of the Toronto Listing of
                               | Immigration and Refugee Consultants, Lawyers,
                               | Lobby and Government funded Special Interest
                               | Groups, and Affirmative Action (Employment
                               | Equity) Consultants and lobbyists, as well as
                               | government offices that give billions of
                               | taxpayers dollars to non-Canadians and even
                               | those illegally here!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMHTMIN.ZIP    26980  09-17-95  Immigration Hurts Minorities
                               | And economic analysis from the University of
                               | California
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
INETHATE.ZIP     1723  09-17-95  OTTAWA - An anti-racism group wants the
                               | government to regulate the worldwide computer
                               | network under the Broadcast Act.
LIBERT.TXT       9216  09-17-95  The Libertarian Party of Canada.  Info on
                               | the political philosophy of libertarianism,
                               | which always puts people ahead of government.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
LIBFAQ.TXT      18032  09-17-95  Libertarianism and its Frequently Questioned
                               | Answers!  Debunks typical questions that
                               | government should in any way "own" the
                               | individual.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
MINOHURT.ZIP     2885  09-17-95  Minorities hurt the most by immigration
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ADVOCATE.ZIP     2429  09-16-95  Somebody advocating FOR affirmative action.
                               | Their arguements are based on emotion and of
                               | course avoids any facts to support his
                               | position.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ARA.ZIP         69275  09-16-95  Screen captures from the 'Anti-Racist Action'
                               | World Wide Web site.  They call right-wing
                               | activists "Hate Mongers".  Read these text
                               | files and decide for yourself who the real
                               | "hatemongers" are!.  Includes information on
                               | the Heritage Front and Ernst Zundel  
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
CHINWELF.ZIP     3786  09-16-95  U.S. problems with elderly Chinese Immigrants
                               | abusing their welfare system
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ECONIMPA.ZIP    13433  09-16-95  The REAL impact of Immigration.  Issues the
                               | politically correct are trying to hide.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMIORGS.ZIP     1990  09-16-95  Some Immigration (both pro and con)
                               | organizations on the Internet
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
PROP-187.ZIP    20687  09-16-95  Information on California's Proposition 187
                               | to end free health care and education to
                               | illegal immigrants.  A MUST DOWNLOAD !!!
                               | It has great lessons for Canada and how lobby
                               | groups will abuse the system to get their
                               | agendas agreed to against the majority of
                               | the will of the majority of Citizens wishes.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RAYLUH.ZIP       2401  09-16-95  How the U.S. government limits the free
                               | speech of its employees on the Internet
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TEEMSHOR.ZIP     7828  09-16-95  America's Teeming Shores.  The impact of
                               | Refugees
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FEMREFER.ZIP    58354  09-09-95  Feminazi's References and Resouce list from
                               | the Internet
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMSTATS.DOC     3046  09-09-95  Immigration statistics. Lists the numbers of
                               | immigrants to Canada from 1860 to 1993.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
LOGIC.ZIP       11439  09-09-95  How to argue logically.  From the InterNet's
                               | core texts on etiquette.  Exposes various
                               | types of fallacies.  ZIP-compressed.  Great
                               | for exposing the fallacies of leftists and
                               | PC types!
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
EQUITSUC.ZIP     1773  09-05-95  Equity for Success - The Toronto Employment
                               | Equity Practioners' Association promotion
                               | that you too can succeed in a job if you are
                               | a woman or a visible minority.  It is the LAW
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TBTN.ZIP          834  09-05-95  Ads put on the Internet advertising feminazi
                               | Take Back The Night night
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
HSCHMIDT.ARJ     2238  08-31-95  GERMAN-AMERICAN RUNS AFOUL OF ARCANE GERMAN
                               | `HATE LAW' A GERMAN-AMERICAN HUMAN RIGHTS
                               | ACTIVIST HAS BEEN ARRESTED IN GERMANY FOR
                               | PUBLISHING POLITICALLY INCORRECT VIEWS OF
                               | WORLD WAR II.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
AFFREACT.ZIP     4165  08-24-95  Affirmative REaction
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BC-EE.ZIP        2047  08-24-95  About British Colombia's new Employment
                               | Equity Law
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CHNONLY1.ZIP      855  08-24-95  Chinese only? . . . This must be Canada!
                               | Internet posting on chinese racism against
                               | other Canadians
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMICON23.ZIP    16238  08-24-95  This is Volume 2 Issue 3, the September 1995
                               | issue of the Toronto Listing of Immigration
                               | and Refugee Consultants, Lawyers, Lobby and
                               | Government funded Special Interest Groups,
                               | and Affirmative Action (Employment Equity)
                               | Consultants and lobbyists, as well as
                               | government offices that give billions of
                               | taxpayers dollars to non-Canadians and even
                               | those illegally here!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMILAW2.ZIP     1812  08-24-95  Another Internet Add plastered all over the
                               | Internet to get immigrants into Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
NATLISM.ZIP      3584  08-24-95  An essay on the nature of true nationalism,
                               | by Arthur Lebouthillier of Our Nation BBS
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
NWICO.ZIP       27559  08-24-95  Propaganda for the New World Order
                               | by the United Nations
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
PIN_OBE3.ZIP    10118  08-24-95  OUTCOME BASED EDUCATION III.............*
                               | DOUBLESPEAK.............................*
                               | Position Paper Volume 3.................*
                               | ........................................*
                               | Orwellian "doublespeak".                *
                               | Must be something in the water.         *
                               | Doublespeak: children at risk.          *
                               | Social engineering: a concerted plan.   *
                               | Those "outcomes" again.                 *
                               | ........................................*
                               | There are many fine people who endorse  *
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
PUNISHII.ZIP     1106  08-24-95  The Frazer Institute says Employment Equity
                               | punishes the Innocect
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
REFUWORD.ZIP     2463  08-24-95  Why are Refugee's being taken at their word?
                               | A great Internet capture
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TPLHOLOC.ZIP     4859  08-24-95  A description of a pamphlet put out by the
                               | Toronto Public Libraries which claims to
                               | present a "representative sample" of sources
                               | about the Jewish Holocaust.  An example of
                               | how, to skew information, present only one
                               | side of it.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
GOODATTY.TXT    58955  08-20-95  Ethics codes from the California Bar
                               | association.
HCIBAN.DOC      14215  08-20-95  Confidential US government document from the
                               | HCI.  Leaked through the Internet.  Talks
                               | about the new Firearms registering practices
                               | that maybe instituted by the US government. 
                               | This file shows how the "politically
                               | Correct" can get out of control.
INNOCENT.TXT   157447  08-20-95  The innocent victims from the US's war on
                               | drugs.  From the Pittsburgh Press.
MANIFEST.PC     17119  08-20-95  THE POLITICALLY CORRECT MANIFESTO. Featuring
                               | a PC primer and a PC lexicon.
NATURAL.LAW     71030  08-20-95  Natural Law and Natural Rights.  From the
                               | Internet.
POSTING.RSK      5215  08-20-95  THE RISKS OF POSTING TO THE INTERNET.   Very
                               | good file for people who are concerned with
                               | their personal security on the Net.
PRIVACY.FOI      9735  08-20-95  Telecomm company blasts FBI over wire tap
                               | proposal.
CONS9508.ZIP    13283  08-16-95  Conservatism FAQ's Aug. 1995 from the
                               | internet
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
EMBASSY.ZIP     12133  08-16-95  A listing of foreign Embassies and Consulate
                               | offices in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMICON22.ZIP    15944  08-16-95  This is Volume 2 Issue 2, the August 1995
                               | issue of the Toronto Listing of Immigration
                               | and Refugee Consultants, Lawyers, Lobby and
                               | Government funded Special Interest Groups,
                               | and Affirmative Action (Employment Equity)
                               | Consultants and lobbyists, as well as
                               | government offices that give billions of
                               | taxpayers dollars to non-Canadians and even
                               | those illegally here!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMI-TAX.ZIP     2110  08-16-95  Immigrant Terrorist Group get Canadian Tax
                               | Breaks as a Charity
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ISLAM.TXT        2570  08-16-95  How Islamic scholars used to view Black
                               | people
                               | Uploaded by: Dave R
MP.ZIP           9707  08-16-95  Email addresses & Fax numbers for ONT MPs.
                               | Uploaded by: David
1994IMMI.ZIP     1478  08-05-95  Canadian 1994 immigration targets
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
24M-RACE.ZIP     1154  08-05-95  Feds to build $24 million race relations
                               | commission in Toronto
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
AGECONFL.ZIP    21752  08-05-95  This Age of Conflict
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ASIAENVY.ZIP     4610  08-05-95  Whites envy asians?????
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BLCKSTUD.ZIP     4009  08-05-95  Universities are outbidding each other for
                               | their 'share' of blacks to meet government
                               | RACE QUOTAS
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BLKPAGES.ZIP      776  08-05-95  Ontario government funds black business which
                               | set up the Black Pages listing only 'black
                               | businesses' so that blacks can find 'black
                               | businesses' so that they will only deal with
                               | other 'blacks' - GOVERNMENT FUNDED RACISM
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FEMCHALL.ZIP    14557  08-05-95  The 'Feminist Challenge'
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
GUELPH.ZIP        708  08-05-95  The University of Guelph (Ontario) wastes
                               | money to set up a minorities-only student
                               | lounge - NO WHITES ALLOWED!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IF-RAIDD.ZIP     2521  08-05-95  What to do if you are raided
                               | by the National Firearms Association
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ILAWABUS.ZIP     6386  08-05-95  Canadian Immigration Lawyers are Abusing the
                               | system
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ILLIMIRB.ZIP      810  08-05-95  Someone who came to Canada as an ILLEGAL
                               | Immigrant is appointed to a very high paying
                               | and important senior position on the
                               | Immigration and Refugee Board by his personal
                               | friend, Sergio Marchi, the Minister of
                               | Immigration
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMAPOINT.ZIP     1311  08-05-95  All the people being appointed by the Liberal
                               | Government to the Immigration and Refugee
                               | Board are biased people (either extremists in
                               | the pro-immigration lobby or liberal hacks
                               | who will do what the pro-immigration
                               | government wants)_
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMIFORM.ZIP     1251  08-05-95  Immigration forms are easily stolen and the
                               | government doesn't want to do anything
                               | though it makes it easy to get into Canada or
                               | stay here illegally
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMIGABU.ZIP     1790  08-05-95  More Immigration Abuses
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMIREPT.ZIP     3393  08-05-95  The Immigration Report
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMISCAM.ZIP     1674  08-05-95  Scam, what Scam?  Immigration department
                               | doesn't want to do anything about this
                               | immigration scam
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
INNOCENT.ZIP     2240  08-05-95  Innocent man denied bail for 8 days
                               | because of "political correctness"
                               | This could happen to you too!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
JAGAGAIN.ZIP     1882  08-05-95  East Indian M.P. Jag Bagduria is in legal
                               | trouble again!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
MARCHIGO.ZIP     2014  08-05-95  Sergio Marchi, Minister of Immigration Must
                               | Go - Toronto Sun article
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
MCJOY.ZIP        6234  08-05-95  The 'Joys' of Multiculturalism
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
NUKDLIFE.ZIP     1629  08-05-95  False Abuse Charges 'Nuked' Man's Life
                               | Feminazi abuses through Political Correctness
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
OURNAT.ZIP       8564  08-05-95  Edited text capture of session on OUR NATION
                               | BBS, in Southern California, a BBS just
                               | starting out.  No messages other than the
                               | sysop's explanation of each msg. area.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
STATCULT.ZIP     2628  08-05-95  State Culture (Multiculturalism) has
                               | Ghettoized us all!  Toronto Star article
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WELFRAUD.ZIP     3066  08-05-95  A couple of Toronto Star Articles on Somali
                               | "Refugees" Pillaging our Welfare system!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WEPAYPRC.ZIP     2333  08-05-95  We Pay the Price (for immigration)
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
DIAL911.DIE     25592  08-03-95  DIAL 911 AND DIE:  Written by Jews for the
                               | preservation of firearms
EFF-RIGH.TXT    31152  08-03-95  The Electronic Frontier and the bill of
                               | rights....  Legal overview
EFF.TXT         41459  08-03-95  Press release:  New foundation set up to
                               | encourage computer-based communication
                               | policies.
FIREARM.93      14667  08-03-95  National Rifle Association Firearms fact card
                               | from 1993.  On the second amendment to the
                               | United States constitution.
FLORIDA.2ND     16634  08-03-95  ACLU discussion on the 2nd Amendment
ADAMS.IN        14195  07-29-95  Inaugrual address from John Adams (Former

[huge signature inclusion deleted]

********** VICTORY ************
                               | We won our fight with the International
                               | Programmers Guild.  After many months of
                               | requesting to get listed in Toronto's biggest
                               | BBS list they finally did.  Here is the list
                               | in it's entirety downloaded directly from the
                               | IPG BBS in the Toronto area.
                               | Another victory by the Canadian Patriots
                               | Network.
                               | Uploaded by: Marc Lemire
BIGOTRY.ZIP     13203  07-20-95       Essay Releases    
                               |          #1 With Information               
                               |         Bigotry Comes                
                               |                To TV         
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
VEGAN.TXT       44995  07-20-95  This is a Frequently Asked Question list on
                               | the subject of Veganism.
                               | Uploaded by: David
93ABORT.TXT      1521  07-17-95  A Toronto Sun article that has statistics
                               | on abortion for 1993.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
BATFMAN.ZIP      7289  07-17-95  BATF THUGS STRIKE AGAIN!                *
                               | ........................................*
                               | Another example of "state" police action*
                               | This family appears to be the victims   * of
                               | a rather "rude" visit!               * First
                               | appeared in Gun Owners of America.*
                               | ........................................*
                               | From The InterNet                       * *
                               | Uploaded by: Fred Van Der Vliet
BLKCRED.TXT      3863  07-17-95  A Toronto Sun article that updates the
                               | situation with the black credit union in
                               | Ontario that got a $750,000 grant. They
                               | are not doing well.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
CAN-MP.TXT        846  07-17-95  A list of the Federal MPs in charge of
                               | government ministries and what ministries
                               | they lead.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
FUNFACTS.HTM    22553  07-17-95  Facts from Church of Euthansia, amusing...
                               | Uploaded by: Siddhartha
BRADY.ACT       32695  07-09-95  The Brady Bill.  An act to control firearms
                               | in the United States (This is the Act the
                               | Militia's are mad about)
CANADA.CH       14557  07-09-95  Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
CANADA.CN       82640  07-09-95  The British North American Act of 1867
CANADA.MA       20354  07-09-95  The complete text of the 1987 Constitutional
                               | Accord
CHARLOTT.ACC    61577  07-09-95  Consensus Report on the Constitution:
                               | Charlottetown Accord August 28, 1992 (Final)
COMMUN.MF       52708  07-09-95  Manifesto of the Communist party.  This is
                               | the original one written by Karl Marx and
                               | Fredrick Engels
CYBER.NET       42224  07-09-95  Political and Social implications on the
                               | Internet by Steve Crocker
DEMOCRAT.92     56593  07-09-95  The 1992 Democratic Platform.  "A new
                               | covenant with the American People"
EMANCIP.TXT      5775  07-09-95  The Emancipation Proclamation.  Written by
                               | the President of the United States on Sept
                               | 22, 1862
GERMANY.SUR     42141  07-09-95  The German Surrender:  A complete document of
                               | the aggreement made by the German government
                               | in 1945.
ISRAEL.DEC       5827  07-09-95  Declaration of Israel's independance. Issued
                               | in Tel Aviv on May 14, 1948
JOECLARK.EN    158244  07-09-95  Shaping Canada's Future: A proposal (English)
JOECLARK.FR    180095  07-09-95  Shaping Canada's Future: A proposal (French)
LIBERTAR.92     88493  07-09-95  The 1992 national platform of the
                               | Liberatarian party.  Adopted in convention
                               | August 1991, Chicago, Illinios
PRIVACY.ACT     57206  07-09-95  The United States Privacy Act of 1974.  Most
                               | of this information is stil relevant.
RIGHTS.MAN       6199  07-09-95  Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the
                               | citizen.  Approved by the national assembly
                               | of France, Aug 26, 1789
RIGHTS.UN       11594  07-09-95  Universal declaration of Human Rights. 
                               | Written by the United Nations in 1948.
WACO.HIS        19164  07-09-95  Linda Thompson exposed the horrors at WACO.
WARPOWER.ACT    16261  07-09-95  The War Powers Act for the Predident and the
                               | Senate of the United States
EFF-CANA.069     6013  07-07-95  From the freedom fighters at EFF.  This one
                               | is about censorship on the Internet
ATS-13         190324  06-30-95  Arm the Spirit publication. A communist/
                               | leftist text from June-July 1992. Has
                               | a collection of articles about thrid world
                               | politics.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
BLDEBT.ZIP      28430  06-29-95  An expose of the coming Debt Crunch which
                               | holds out very little hope of solution, but
                               | which shows how some people will survive and
                               | even prosper while all those dependent on
                               | government handouts will die.  This Black
                               | Debt (pun on Black Death) is an advertisement
                               | issue of STRATEGIC INVESTMENT magazine.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
ONT-CAB.TXT      2781  06-29-95  A list of the 18 new cabinet ministers
                               | of the Ontario government. Has some
                               | background information as well.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
700F259.ZIP     29082  06-26-95  U.N.'s NEW WORLD ORDER - Threat To Sovereign
                               | Nations? 700 Club Fact Sheet. As featured on
                               | the 700 Club Newswatch, September 16, 1994
FED-EMAI.ZIP     2814  06-26-95  email addresses of some MPs
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
GENSTUDY.ZIP     7474  06-26-95  A Study  Into  the  Meaning  of the Word
                               | "Gentile" as Used in the Bible
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
HOW2WIN.ZIP     64148  06-26-95  file from Zionet on how to defeat the radical
                               | right, informative
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
REFORM.ZIP      21898  06-26-95  policies and principles of the Reform Party
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
WACO.ZIP        17887  06-26-95  another article about the Waco massacre
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
100FACTS.CAP    47943  06-22-95  A capture from alt.politics.nationalism.white
                               | that gives 100 very good facts that are
                               | usually kept hidden or downplayed. Fully
                               | documented and clear. A must see!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
DATOFREV.ZIP    11560  06-22-95  When was the  book of Revelation Written and
                               | Why is it Important?
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
DEATHPEN.ZIP    20216  06-22-95  INTOLERANCE OF, DISCRIMINATION AGAINST AND
                               | THE DEATH PENALTY FOR HOMOSEXUALS is
                               | prescribed in the Bible
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
DEVDEF.ZIP      16692  06-22-95  THE  BIBLE   DEVIL   AND  SATAN  DEFINED
                               | Expose' of a Pagan Doctrine
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
DISCRIM.ZIP      4918  06-22-95  Christianity discriminates
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
FREEMAS.ZIP     54576  06-22-95  Interesting information on Freemasonary and
                               | how UNCHRISTIAN it is.
BLAKCRED.ZIP      983  06-16-95  Prov. of Ontario gives $750,000 to Black-only
                               | Credit Union
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BLKJUSTC.ZIP     2871  06-16-95  Toronto Star article DEMANDING a separate
                               | Justice System run by Blacks for Blacks!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BLKWOMNJ.ZIP      880  06-16-95  The Black Woman's Journal
                               | Another waste funded with help from our tax
                               | dollars!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BOGUSREF.ZIP     2650  06-16-95  Another story about Bogus Refugees coming to
                               | Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
BSTMINOR.ZIP     2630  06-16-95  The Best of Arnold Minors - By Christie
                               | Blatchford of the Toronto Sun
                               | This is the black guy on the Police
                               | Commission
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
COLBLIND.ZIP     2239  06-16-95  Toronto Sun article about color-blind justice
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
DESTIMMI.ZIP     8079  06-16-95  Destructive Immigration
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FREESKUL.ZIP     2057  06-16-95  Women's Teachers Association wants to free
                               | the school system of all its negative male
                               | influences
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
GROWMALE.ZIP     4116  06-16-95  Toronto Star article about what is wrong with
                               | all men.  It must have be written by a rabid
                               | feminazi!  It blames all the evils in the
                               | World on testosterone!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMICON21.ZIP    15861  06-16-95  This is Volume 2 Issue 1, the June 1995 issue
                               | of the Toronto Listing of Immigration and
                               | Refugee Consultants, Lawyers, Lobby and
                               | Government funded Special Interest Groups,
                               | and Affirmative Action (Employment Equity)
                               | Consultants and lobbyists, as well as
                               | government offices that give billions of
                               | taxpayers dollars to non-Canadians and even
                               | those illegally here!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMMIGINV.ZIP    19767  06-16-95  The Immigration Invasion
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
IMPORTGA.ZIP     2747  06-16-95  Importing Garbage - Toronto Sun article
                               | about immigration and Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ISLAMTER.ZIP     4067  06-16-95  ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALIST TERROR SPREADS THROUGH
                               | MIDDLE EAST
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
NJYELLRA.ZIP     2594  06-16-95  No job?  Yell racism!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
PAVEDWIT.ZIP     9716  06-16-95  Review of Paved with Good Intentions
                               | About Immigration and refugees
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
PCLEX.ZIP       11379  06-16-95  The Politically Correct Lexicon
                               | Very humourous
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
POSMEAS.ZIP      1158  06-16-95  The Ontario Government's "Postive Measures"
                               | policy not to hire or promote White Males!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RACISTS.ZIP      2713  06-16-95  Racists? Who are the racists?
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RACNORMG.ZIP     3373  06-16-95  Race Norming - Adjusting school grades based
                               | upon race to make up for the school systems
                               | biases against blacks and minorities
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
SEXTEGUD.ZIP    56320  06-16-95  Guidelines for teaching about Male Violence,
                               | Rape and pornography in Women's Studies,
                               | Psychology, and Sociology courses.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
SKULBIAS.ZIP     1716  06-16-95  Toronto Star article - Schools biased against
                               | the religious teaching needs of Minorities
                               | (Seems like they want it all for free)
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
SKULSEGR.ZIP     1252  06-16-95  Internet discussion about Minorities trying
                               | to use the Supreme Court of Canada to force
                               | school boards to fund separate schools for
                               | each one of their faiths and races!
                               | These immigrants want everything for free at
                               | the expense of Canadian Citizens
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
SOLOMOTH.ZIP     3144  06-16-95  Toronto Star Article written by a groups
                               | called: Single Mother's By Choice who believe
                               | children are better off without any male
                               | influences and encourage women to have
                               | children but not men in their lives.
                               | Can you believe that the Toronto Star
                               | publishes crap like this?
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TEEPA.ZIP        4826  06-16-95  Toronto Employment Equity Practioner's
                               | Membership Information and Members List
                               | They are part of the industry that makes
                               | their profits off of affirmative action
                               | programs.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
TOHARDHT.ZIP     2669  06-16-95  Toronto Hardest Hit by Immigration
                               | Globe and Mail Article
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WHITPRIV.ZIP     6053  06-16-95  Eliminating White Male Priviledge.
                               | Written by another rabid feminist
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WORDTHAT.ZIP    14831  06-16-95  Words that Count Women In - 2nd Edition
                               | Published by the Women's Directorate, part of
                               | the Ontario Ministry of Citizenship.
                               | This crap published at the expense of
                               | $100,000's talks about what words and phrases
                               | must be eliminated from the English language.
                               | It gives a very revealing look at the future
                               | agenda the government has for us.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ATHEISM.ZIP     57121  06-13-95  Text file for Atheists
GWARFARE.ZIP    34624  06-13-95  A document issued by the CIA to the Cuban
                               | resistance fighters, Psychological Guerilla
                               | Warfare, required reading for anyone who's
                               | serious about our movement.
                               | Uploaded by: Andrew Macdonald
YG#1            13633  06-13-95  Describing Problems dealing with Modern
                               | Society
                               | Uploaded by: Citizen-0ne
DOGGLE.ZIP       4520  06-06-95  You pay for boondoggle of Historical
                               | Proportions by Andrew Arnold from the
                               | Spotlight April 12, 1993
DRESDEN1.TXT    10594  06-06-95  Dresden: The real Holocaust by
                               | vertraun@aol.com
DRESDEN2.TXT    35996  06-06-95  Holocaust at Dresden by George Fowler from
                               | the Barnes Review
ECOSCAM1.TXT    56298  06-06-95  ECO-SCAM false profits of Ecological
                               | Apocalypse by Ronald Bailey from the St.
                               | Martin Press
EQUIP2.ZIP       7880  06-06-95  List of Medical Equipment for Survivalists by
                               | Kevin King
EQUIPLST.ZIP     3545  06-06-95  List of equipment for Survivalists.  Includes
                               | thing to have in your Car, and 2 equipment
                               | checklists
EWATER.ZIP       6297  06-06-95  Emergency Water by Ken Larson from the
                               | American Surival Guide
FANTASYL.ZIP    16513  06-06-95  Very interesting file.  Includes a peice by
                               | Bradley R. Smith on a typical reaction of the
                               | Anti-Defimation League and B'nai B'rith to a
                               | revisionist critique of the Holocaust
                               | Memorial, An article by ADL spokeman Marvin
                               | Stern, The CODOH advertisement by Bradley R.
                               | Smith, and the first and now famous CODOH
                               | campus advertisement by Bradley R. Smith
FBI.TXT          1954  06-06-95  How to get your FBI file.  And a freedom of
                               | information request letter to get it
H-TORTUR.ZIP    15412  06-06-95  How the British obtained the confession of
                               | Rudolf Hess by Robert Faurisson from the IHR 
                               | Journal Winter, 1986-87
HART.TXT        10248  06-06-95  BATF and the night of Terror from the
                               | American Firearms industry Sept 1993
HATEMONG.ZIP     3147  06-06-95  The Nobel peice prize for a Hatemonger? By
                               | Ernst Zndel.  Includes racist statments by
                               | Elie Wiesel
HITLER1.ZIP     57213  06-06-95  How Hitler consolidated power in Germany and
                               | launched a social revolution. By Leon
                               | Degrelli from the IHR Journal Fall, 1992
ISPY.TXT        10211  06-06-95  Real Facts on Johnathan Jay Pollard --
                               | Convicted spy for Israel.
JEWISHRV.ZIP     6932  06-06-95  "We're loud, we're proud and best of all
                               | we're right" a Jewish Revisionists visit to
                               | Auschwitz. From the IHR Journal Mar/Apr 1993
KKKK_FAQ.TXT     5247  06-06-95  [FAQ] Frequently asked questions on the
                               | Knights of The Ku Klux Klan.  Includes
                               | addresses and phone numbers from Klan groups
                               | in the States
LEADER1.TXT     19638  06-06-95  Leaderless Resistance by Louis Beam
LEADER2.TXT     16048  06-06-95  Tom Metzgers response to Leaderless
                               | Resistance
MAILLIST.ZIP    49600  06-06-95  Address list for Radical organizers.         
                               | (Mostly Leftist and Anarcists)
MANUFACT.ZIP     2655  06-06-95  How fake war propaganda stories are
                               | manufactured.  From the IHR Journal Sept/Oct
                               | 1993
MATTHEWS.TXT    10030  06-06-95  Letter to the Editor by Robert Jay Mathews
MENSA_ED.TXT     1889  06-06-95  Mensa editor forced out over "Master Race"
                               | furor from Reuters
MOREADDR.TXT     1329  06-06-95  Addresses for White Power music from
                               | Alt.Politics.Nationalism.White
NEWREPUB.ZIP     4858  06-06-95  Black soldiers and Buchenwald: The
                               | Exaggerators by Jeffery Goldberg. (This
                               | details the LIES about the PBS special the
                               | 'Liberators') from the Zionist newpaper the
                               | New Republic
NOTGUILT.ZIP    45462  06-06-95  Not Guilty at Nuremburg: The German Defence
                               | case by Carlos Porter
PAT-RAID.TXT     6237  06-06-95  Could it happen? Scores killed, hundreds
                               | injured as Para-Military extrimests go on
                               | riot from the New American Feb 6, 1995
PRODIGY.TXT     10070  06-06-95  Notice to all Prodigy Users from Stephen
                               | Grimmer about Prodigy selling what files you
                               | have on your computer to software companies
RWEAVER.TXT      9050  06-06-95  The Randy Weaver story from Resistance, Oct
                               | 5, 1992.  Very interesting!!
SECONDAM.TXT    15832  06-06-95  1994 NRA firearms Factcard: Second amendment
                               | to the Constitution
SIMONWIE.ZIP     8923  06-06-95  Simon Wiesenthal: Bogas Nazi Hunter by Mark
                               | Weber
SOF-ARMY.TXT     3295  06-06-95  All Americans deployed against Americans from
                               | Soldier of Fortune March, 1995
SPOTLIGH.ZIP    66137  06-06-95  A collection of some very interesting
                               | articles from Spotlight Magazine.
SUPPAPER.ZIP    24701  06-06-95  The Supressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers by
                               | David Irving from the IHR Journal Mar/Apr
                               | 1993
SURTYPES.ZIP     2215  06-06-95  Article on what types of people are in
                               | the Survivalist movement
WEAVER1.TXT      3146  06-06-95  Jury acquits sepratist in marshals death
                               | about White Sepratist Randy Weaver
WEAVER2.TXT      6669  06-06-95  U.S. draws fire for '92 siege of Neo-Nazi by
                               | Hugh Dellios from the Chicago Tribune
0RADIOSH.TXT     2945  05-31-95  A listing of American Dissident voices radio
                               | shows.  Very complete
CANADA06.ZIP    95524  05-31-95  Internet FAQ (ans to freq asked questions)
                               | re:  Canada and Canadian culture
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FEMBBSTK.ZIP   287130  05-31-95  WHAT WOMEN SAY WHEN MEN AREN'T AROUND.  These
                               | are captures of what women said on a
                               | women-only bbs on topics such as: Sexual
                               | Abuse False Memory Syndrome Sexual Harassment
                               | White Ribbon Campaign Womanism Date Rape  For
                               | those of you who are curious as to what women
                               | really say . . .  Those files that start with
                               | co-ed are from a BBS that allow men on some
                               | area only (they don't permit it in area
                               | co-ed#1).  I am also keeping some of the more
                               | ridiculous ones in the file called
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
GERMAN1.TXT      8998  05-31-95  GERMAN ALERT  The free flow of uncensored
                               | facts.. May 8, 95.  European news online
                               | Interesting articles include "French election
                               | in shadow of murderous skinheads", "10,000
                               | gather in Berlin to condemn NAZI tyranny"    
INSPIRED.TXT    20767  05-31-95  Txt File on the Inspiration of the Bible
                               | Uploaded by: Dennis Macintyre
JOBEQ2.ZIP       1617  05-31-95  Canada's Leading Human Right's Advocacy
                               | Lawyer says Employment Equity is
                               | discriminatory against White Males
                               | Toronto Star Article
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
JOBEQUIT.ZIP     1805  05-31-95  Early Toronto Star Article on Job Equity
                               | which forshadowed the negative effects we are
                               | now seeing
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ONTFUTUR.ZIP     2257  05-31-95  Ontario's Future with Employment Equity
                               | No jobs for anybody but especially White
                               | Males
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
VERBAL.TXT      19962  05-31-95  Txt File on the Verbal Accuracy of the
                               | bible's Original Text Manuscripts...
                               | Uploaded by: Dennis Macintyre
2ND.TXT        125601  05-29-95  The embarassing second amendment by Sanford
                               | Levinson from the Yale Law Review Volume 99
ADINAD.TXT       7664  05-29-95  The Ad within an Ad... Thought control at
                               | work by Steven H. Gregg
ADL-LET.TXT      3987  05-29-95  A letter by Ken Blewitt and the response from
                               | Assistant Director of the Anti-Defimation
                               | League
ADLHATES.TXT    12656  05-29-95  Anti-Defimation League promotes hate
                               | attourney says!
ADLWHTP.TXT     66117  05-29-95  White paper on the Anti-Defimation League of
                               | the B'nai B'rith.  Reprinted from Spotlight
                               | magazine
ADL_PROD.TXT     2948  05-29-95  Press Release from the Anti-Defimation League
                               | about hate on Prodigy Online.  Downloaded
                               | from the U.S. Newswire BBS
ADL_SF.TXT       2015  05-29-95  Anti-Defimation league accepts fine and
                               | Injunction in San Fransisco case.... About

[huge signature inclusion deleted]


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:21 PDT 1995
Article: 8683 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!esol.intermedia.com!emi.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Subject: A report on the Seige of Randy Weavers house
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:33:27 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 219
Message-ID: <43u37u$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3609 alt.revisionism:8683 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2640 alt.skinheads:3375



 
 
(Following is a  report of the Federal assault on 
Randy Weaver and his family in Idaho and then a statement by
Randy Weaver on why he decided to surrender to the killers of his
wife and his son. Randy Weaver is part of the Identity Christian
church which believes in racial separatism and Biblical
fundamentalism.  This report is from some people in the  Identity
movement in Colorado who were directly in touch with people who
were there.)  
 
The Setup: 
 
Rodney King was justifiably beaten for resisting arrest and the
media made him a tragic hero - but there is a nervous silence in
the media about what happened to Randy Weaver and his family in
Idaho.  
 
Weaver is a member of a Christian Identity church.  Identity is
very much like Judaism in the name of a different race - heavy
emphasis on Old Testament law, love of ones people, and a belief
in separatism.  (The federal government permits these beliefs
except when they are held by white Christians.)  
 
Weaver was approached in 1991 by the FBI who tried to convince
him to  infiltrate the Aryan Nations.  Weaver refused.  He was
later visited by an "acquaintance" (actually an undercover BATF
agent), who wanted to sell him some shotguns.  Weaver picked them
up and looked at them, gave them back and said he 
wasn't interested.  One of the guns had a barrel that was 17 3/4
inches long. (18 inches is the minimum legal length of a shotgun
by federal law - anything less is a "sawed-off" shotgun -
possession of which is a misdemeanor).  The acquaintance took the
gun (which now had Weavers fingerprints on it) to the 
FBI.  FBI came back to Weaver with an offer he couldn't refuse -
inform on Aryan Nations members or go to jail for 10 years for
selling a sawed-off shotgun.  He refused. 
 
A federal warrant was issued.  Weaver told his neighbors he was
being framed and ignored it.  One day he saw a pregnant woman
standing by her car with the hood open near his home.  He come
out to help and was captured by 3 armed men hiding near the car. 
They took him into custody.  He was indicted and released 
on $5000 bond. 
 
Weaver returned to his cabin and refused to come out until he got
an apology from the Feds (we Christians can be a humorously naive
lot).  He has been supported by the townsfolk who brought him
food and gave him moral support. 
 
For the past 18 months, the government has been using its lackeys
in the NY Times, LA Times, and Washington Post to publicise the
"dangerous, ex-special forces, anti-government, white supremacist
in Idaho defying the government of the US". 
 
The Assault: 
 
Randy Weaver takes his family to church every Sunday.  They could
have had him any time but .. 
 
7 well armed Federal Marshal's were sent to "recon" the area.  On
August 21 around dinner time, the Weavers were in their cabin -
Randy 44, his wife Vicki 43, son Samuel 13, a 16 year old
daughter, daughter Sara 10, daughter Elishsa 10 months, with a
friend from town Kevin Harris 24 who had brought food. The 
dog started barking outside so Samuel, Randy and Kevin grabbed
their hunting rifles and went outside.  Sammy rushed out first
thinking he might get a deer for the family.  Sammy and the dog
started running into the bush when they were confronted by a well
armed stranger in camouflage dress.  The stranger shot the 
dog, Samuel fired a shot at the stranger and missed.  Weaver
fired a warning shot and called for the three to run back to the
cabin.  As they ran (while on Weaver's property) Samuel was shot
in the back and killed.  Harris returned fire and killed Federal
Marshal William Degan 42 with a shot in the neck just 
above his bullet-proof vest.  Later, under cover of darkness,
Weaver and Harris sneaked out to retrieve his son's body but they
were fired on by Feds.  Weaver was shot in the arm.  They
returned to the cabin.  Vicki, with the baby in her 
arms, came to the door to see what was happening and was killed
instantly by a sniper with one shot to her forehead - fragments
>from  that bullet wounded Harris.   
 
Shortly afterward, the cabin was surrounded by 800 marshals, two
tanks, numerous armored personnel carriers and armored
helicopters.  The town of Naples was forcibly evacuated. 
Something was dropped on the town from a  
helicopter that killed all the pets in the evacuated town
(federal punishment of a white town for supporting one of its
own).  Feds have since raided a "survivalist" group in Georgia in
a replay of Operation Clean Sweep. 
 
One of the most decorated veterans from Vietnam former Col. Bo
Gritz (who is running for president with the Populist Party) and
was a friend of Weaver in the Green Berets on Vietnam intervened
to end the standoff.  Gritz secured from 
the Feds a promise not to kill him or any more of his family as
well as a letter of support from the townsfolk (who had
confronted and challenged the FBI throughout the episode), as
well as famed criminal lawyer Jerry Spense to defend him and
convinced him that he could tell his story in court.  After 11 
days Weaver cried the name of his dead wife and dead son and
escorted by Gritz, walked out to surrender.  Gritz has since
filed criminal charges of murder against the original 7 marshals.

 
WHY? 
 
The Feds blew this bad.  A double murder of innocent people
because of a misdemeanor weapons charge after waiting 18 months -
Lots of witness who lived - Tremendous popular support (Paul
Harvey is reported to have offered to pay legal expenses).  I
think they waited to play the "Weaver card" to appease 
blacks angry at the Rodney King incident and Jews angry that Bush
would attach conditions to the $10 Billion loan to Israel.  The
assault on people whose beliefs are unpopular comes from big
government, big media, and big business - 
the establishment - who (correctly) perceive the assertion of
cultural particularity to be a threat to their empire.  The 1st,
and 4th amendments will soon have been sophistered into
meaninglessness so that they can continue their murderous assault
without constitutional inconveniences. The targets are white 
gentile Peoples who express the same sense of nationalism or
racial pride that would be considered acceptable in blacks and
noble in Jews.  Wake up white man. 

                      Randy Weaver Speaks Out 
        (The following public statement was released by  
               Randy Weaver through his attorney.) 
 
     "I decided to come down from the mountain for two reasons. 
First, I didn't want my children expose3d to any further danger. 
These girls were very brave.  They stayed by their dead mother 
all of those days and took care of Kevin Harris and me and the 
baby.  If it weren't for them we might not have made it at all. 
In the end they were afraid, as was I, that if we came out we 
would all be killed. 
 
     "I have never believed that I could get a fair trial in a 
government court.  I was assured that Mr. Spence, one of the 
great lawyers of the country who has spent his life fighting for
people and the cause of freedom, will see that I get a fair 
trial.  I believe Mr. Spence will see that my rights are 
protected.  If I did not believe that I would still be up there.
 
     "I have authorized Mr. Spence to undertake my defense 
understanding that he and I see eye to eye on very few political
and religious issues.  As a matter of fact, we are poles apart in
our beliefs.  But one thing he and I agree on, and that is that 
people ought not to be murdered by their own government.  
      
     " This case must stand for something.  Otherwise my darling
Vicki and my dear son Sam have died for nothing.  This case must
do something for this country that I love.  Otherwise Mamma's 
life and Sam's death were wasted. 
 
     'The facts in this case are known to everyone.  First they
killed our dog, a big friendly yellow lab.  Then they shot Sam,
my son.  They blew off his arm.  Then they shot him in the back..
The second day they tried to eliminate all of the witnesses to
Sam's murder.  They shot me, and then Kevin.  Finally they killed
my wife as she stood in the doorway of our cabin with our baby
daughter in her arms.  She fell with her arms still clutching our
baby.  When I lifter her head, half of her face had been blown
away.  We did not have enough water to bathe her or prepare her
body.  We kept her with us eight days. 
 
     "There is no doubt that she was killed in retaliation for 
the death of the Federal officer.   Those officers are all 
trained and skilled in shooting an identifiable target.   They 
are excellent marksmen.  They shot her in the head.  This was 
murder, a horrid, premeditated murder.  I expect the System to do
whatever it can to cover up this atrocity, but they know and I 
know that what I say is true.  This is my statement. 
- Randy Weaver 
(Source Resistance October 5th, 1992)

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:33 PDT 1995
Article: 8692 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles list part 3
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:03:53 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 511
Message-ID: <43u1gl$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8692 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2647 alt.politics.white-power:3623 alt.skinheads:3381 alt.discrimination:35830

                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.
If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
BIOG.TXT         4178  05-29-95  FOUNDATIONS: Biography of Pastor Richard G.
                               | Butler
CIVIL.TXT       25706  05-29-95  Civil Liberties in Cyberspace reprinted from
                               | September 1991 Scientific American
CONBOOKS.TXT    22397  05-29-95  Conspiracy Book List V1.1
CONSP.TXT       36740  05-29-95  None ever call it conspiracy by Pastor Pete
                               | Peters.  About conspiracies surrounding the
                               | Bible
CRIMPROS.ZIP     6258  05-29-95  Criminal prosecution of Holocaust Denial.
                               | Written by the Canadian Free Speech League
FBIVSWVR.ZIP     4382  05-29-95  NO ACCOUNTABILITY AT THE FBI            * By
                               | James Bovard                         *
                               | ........................................*
                               | Poignant look at how effectively the    *
                               | "wrongdoers" judge themselves with      *
                               | extraordinary leniency!                 * The
                               | Weaver Story needs to be studied!   *
                               | ........................................*
                               | From The InterNet                       *
                               | Wall Street Journal * 1/10/95           * *
GERMNYFS.ZIP     7439  05-29-95  WHY NO FREE SPEECH IN GERMANY?
SWC_SPY.ZIP     23516  05-29-95  This is a report  on the infiltration of
                               | neo-Nazi groups in Germany by operatives from
                               | the Simon Wiesenthal Center.   They were
                               | sent  by  Rick  Eaton of the Simon Wiesenthal
                               | Center
SWISGUNS.ZIP    12128  05-29-95  THE SWISS AND THEIR GUNS By David B. Kopel
                               | and Stephen D'Andrilli American Rifleman Feb.
                               | 1990
WAITING.ZIP     20312  05-29-95  How Christians respond to today's beliefs
                               | about the future.
WGDD.ZIP         2298  05-29-95  The SPOTLIGHT April 10th 1995 Page 19 World
                               | Government Deadline Delayed THOSE WHO WOULD
                               | BE MASTERS ON THE GLOBAL PLANTATION ARE
                               | DEEPLY  DISTURBED BY THE RISING TIDE OF
                               | POPULISM.
GUN_BBS1.TXT     5152  05-28-95  Pro-Gun BBS's part 1 of 2
GUN_BBS2.TXT     4675  05-28-95  Pro-Gun BBS's part 2 of 2
ALIEN.TXT        6913  05-27-95  Book review of ALIEN NATION by Peter
                               | Brimelow, which exposes the motives for
                               | uncontrolled immigration in the U.S., its
                               | costs, and a convincing argument to restrict
                               | immigration based on the known effects of
                               | uncontrolled vs. restricted immigration.  Any
                               | effects of restricted immigration are much
                               | easier to correct for.
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
CITIZEN.TXT      7027  05-27-95  Examines Canada's troubled immigration and
                               | citizenship system, and proposes a rational
                               | solution.  This is nothing but a reworked
                               | version of a chapter from MEIN KAMPF, and
                               | Canadians who agree with it will not be so
                               | quick to reject the writings of Adolf Hitler
                               | again...once their shock of recognition
                               | subsides...
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
GAYSTATS.TXT     7545  05-27-95  Only 1-2% of the population is homosexual,
                               | NOT 10%. Here is a great study that proves
                               | it!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
LIST.ZIP         5508  05-27-95   ******* NEW AND UPDATED (05-27-95) *******
                               | This is a Listing of White Nationalist
                               | organizations, BBS's, E-mail Address's.  This
                               | is from Cyberhate's WWW site.  This is a very
                               | well organized list and has alot of Canadian
                               | organizations listed.
MCGRANTS.ZIP     1371  05-27-95  Your taxdollars being given away to ethnic
                               | groups and these are just a few of the
                               | hundreds of groups getting these handouts
                               | from the city, Metro, Ontario, and the
                               | federal Canadian governments.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
NC-WWRNG.ZIP     2467  05-27-95  New Canadian tells us what is wrong with
                               | Canada!
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
THE.WPS          5632  05-27-95  immigrition and heritage. In Word Perfect
                               | Format                               
                               | Uploaded by: Little John
BOMB-F3.TXT      2956  05-21-95  PRESS RELEASE from Ernst Zundel about the
                               | pipe bomb send to his house on May, 20, 1995
REWARD.TXT       2161  05-21-95  $5,000 Reward offered by Ernst Zundel for    
                               | information leading to an arrest in the arson
                               | attack on his house
EEDICT.ZIP       2199  05-19-95  The Official Employment Equity Dictionary
                               | Very very funny
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
ETHNO.ZIP        4491  05-19-95  Ethnocultal Guidelines for Ontario schools
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
WHITEMEN.ZIP     2109  05-19-95  What's in it for White Men?  Anti-male
                               | propaganda by the Employment Equity lobby
                               | groups
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
INTERVW.TXT      9409  05-14-95  Interview By Sid Choudhuri Of CHAOS/2 BBS
                               | With Marc Lemire (04:00 95/05/11)
                               | This Interview Took Place Online On CHAOS/2
                               | BBS As A Question/Answer Period
                               | It Is Being Cross-Posted To Various Internet
                               | USENET Newsgroups
                               | Uploaded by: Sid C.
BIBLEBAD.TXT     4736  05-13-95  Discrepancies and Contradictions in the Bible
                               | as sampled from an original compilation in
                               | a book by Ruth H. Green
                               | Uploaded by: Draconian
CIA94A.ZIP     331789  05-13-95  The CIA World Fact Book. File 1 of 4.
                               | Has statistics on every country in the world!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
CIA94B.ZIP     331230  05-13-95  The CIA World Fact Book. File 2 of 4
                               | Birth rates, fertility, you name it!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
CIA94C.ZIP     332538  05-13-95  The CIA World Fact Book. File 3 of 4.
                               | Gives ranking of countries in all major stats
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
CIA94D.ZIP     326856  05-13-95  The CIA World Fact Book. File 4 of 4.
                               | Installs to about 2.5 megs.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
BIBHNDBK.ZIP    13759  05-05-95  THE BIBLE:  Handbook  for  Survivalists,
                               | Racists,  Tax  Protesters, Militants and
                               | Right-Wing Extremists.
HF-FAQ.ZIP       7626  05-05-95  The Frequently Asked Question list for the
                               | Heritage Front. Answers some of the common
                               | misconceptions people have about this
                               | Euro-Canadian organization.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
STARDEM.ZIP      5009  05-02-95  The Toronto Star demonizes U.S. Militias.
                               | Published April 22, 1995.            
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
ADRS-3.ZIP      11104  04-26-95  Huge Address and BBS list for the Politically
                               | Incorrect thinker....
ADV-1.ZIP       50769  04-26-95     **** AMERICAN DISSIDENT VOICES ****    
                               | The National Alliances radio program hosted
                               | By Kevin Alfred Strom.  Shows include "The
                               | ADL: America's greatest enemy", "The Fallacy
                               | of Equality","The Racial Double Standard","
                               | AIDS: A killer is loose in the land","New
                               | studies cast doubt on "Holocaust" claims"
USENET1.ZIP     19170  04-26-95  Listing of 2291 Usenet News conferences.
                               | Current as of April 26, 1995
83A.ZIP          4748  04-22-95  Article from the New York Times entitled
                               | "Skinhead Leader finds new medium for
                               | spreading hate" 03/13/95  Talks about George
                               | Burdi from Resistance Records and Don Black
                               | of Stormfront.                       
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
LOBBYTEC.ZIP     7844  04-22-95  a file from the EEF about lobbying techniques
                               | Interesting reading...               
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
MEDIA_ON.ZIP     7879  04-22-95  a list of media email adresses, mostly US
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
SAFE-S&M.ZIP     7373  04-22-95  Safe S&M pamphlet put out by the AIDS
                               | committee of Toronto....  This is a must
                               | download...But not if you have a weak
                               | stomach!  This is the sickest peice of
                               | writing I have ever come across..
STRMFRNT.ZIP     7429  04-22-95  (Small) Capture I did of Stormfront's WWW
                               | site.
                               | Uploaded by: Derek Wuenschirs
UNANDNWO.ZIP    20287  04-22-95  structure of the UN and its relation to NWO
                               | Uploaded by: Luke Johnston
TALMUD.ZIP      10467  04-17-95  The Talmud: Judaisms Holiest Book Documented
                               | and Exposed
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
W-P_FAQ.ZIP      9911  04-13-95  FAQ from alt.politics.white-power. Great
                               | source of addresses and contacts!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
BUTLER.ZIP       9720  04-12-95  Abridged text from The Butler Act
                               | Uploaded by: Sid C.
CYBER_AD.ZIP     2091  04-08-95  Ad for Cyberspace Minutemen BBS
                               | Uploaded by: Hans Hackmeister
DUCKHEN.ZIP      6446  04-04-95  The fable of the Ducks and the Hens by George
                               | Lincoln Rockwell (1918-1967)
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
HTLRCULT.ZIP    20140  04-04-95  The  HITLER  CULT  by  Col.   Jack Moore
                               | (U.S.  Army Retired)
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
LOBBYHF.ZIP     11319  04-01-95  Heritage Front's lobby book '95              
                               | Includes media addresses, phone/fax numbers. 
                               | Very good information source.....
BIGBRO01.ZIP    11327  03-31-95  "High-Tech Nightmare" by William F. Jasper
                               | BIG BROTHER'S INFORMATION SUPERHIGHWAY "Big
                               | Brother" sure wants his nose in your
                               | business...but for your own good of course!!
                               | ;)  Most interesting discussion of much of
                               | what's on the drawing board...07-14-94
HADITWTH.ZIP     5056  03-31-95  "Why I've had it with multiculturalism....   
                               | Tower of Babel / When newcomers demand that
                               | Canada adopt their customs and languages, I
                               | wonder why they bothered to come here at all"
                               | Written by Sonja Sinclair of the Globe and
                               | Mail -- OCT 5, 1994
NA894_1.ZIP     10114  03-31-95  MIND CONTROL - Dr. Thomas Sowell, a senior
                               | fellow at Stanford University's Hoover
                               | Institution, claims that government schools
                               | in America today are carrying on "unrelenting
                               | guerrilla warfare" against the traditional
                               | values of society and against the very role
                               | of families in making decisions about their
                               | own children.
NATISTOR.ZIP     9660  03-31-95  "Nation of Islam on the move to win Metro's  
                               | Black youth" By Catherine Dunphy from the
                               | Toronto Sun  July 3, 1994
NORSEMYT.ZIP     5293  03-31-95  Exploring Norse Mythology... INTERESTING
ODINISM.ZIP     19939  03-31-95  [FAQ]  Answers to frequently asked question  
                               | on Odinism.
ONTEEACT.ZIP    59511  03-31-95  The complete Ontario Employment Equity Act   
                               | In ASCII and Word Perfect format.  Bill 79 is
                               | one of the most racist bills to ever come out
                               | of Queens Park.  This is a MUST download     
                               | Just read and find out what the government is
                               | really trying to do...                       
                               |        ? EQUALITY OR DISCRIMINATION ?
ONTREFUG.ZIP    20889  03-31-95  "Refugees -- Safe haven -- Canada's 
                               | Responsibility"  Reprint of a flyer put out
                               | by the ministry of Citizenship with help from
                               | the Toronto Refugee Affairs Council.
RACISM.ZIP       8374  03-31-95  What is Racism?  By Thomas Jackson           
                               | Originally published in American Renaissance
                               | Vol 2. No. 8.
SABJOBEQ.ZIP     3899  03-31-95  "How to sabotage Job Equity" by Donna        
                               | Laframboise.  Staff writter for the Toronto
                               | Star.  Aug 29, 1995
SAYWHEN.ZIP      4340  03-31-95  "Say When" by J.D. Bell.  Informative article
                               | on the Black community blaming all their
                               | problems on racism and slavery
SWSWAR.ZIP     393307  03-31-95  Top Secret Weapons for Quiet Wars            
                               | Amazing text file on social engineering. 
                               | Also included in the zip are ASCII, Word
                               | Perfect 5 and Word Perfect 6 formats.
ACADEM.ZIP      16179  03-30-95  The destruction of the Academy -- Political  
                               | Correctness at American Colleges and
                               | Universities
AIDEEDWF.ZIP     2840  03-30-95  "Aideed's wife cut off welfare"  By John     
                               | Herbert of the Toronto Star.  March 11, 1994
ALIENSMG.ZIP     4174  03-30-95  "Police smash alien smuggle ring"  By Dale   
                               | by Dale Brazard.  Toronto Star, April 9, 1994
B4COLMBS.ZIP    19687  03-30-95  Christians in America BEFORE Columbus!
BIGBROL1.ZIP     6333  03-30-95  INTERNET - Subject: BIG BROTHER IS LISTENING.
                               | From newsgroup: alt.conspiracy
CANIM2.ZIP       3560  03-30-95  Immigration Consultant can get you into
                               | Canada From the Internet Newsgroup:
                               | misc.immigration.canada
CANIMFAQ.ZIP     7262  03-30-95  Canadian Immigration Lawyer can get you into
                               | Canada From the Internet Newsgroup:
                               | misc.immigration.canada
CANIMIGR.ZIP    21712  03-30-95  Immigration to Canada....                    
                               | Outlines how the Canadian immigration system
                               | works.
CHINROB1.ZIP     2517  03-30-95  Article from the Toronto Star about an       
                               | Immigrant sentenced to 6 years for gun point
                               | robberies in Toronto's Chinatown district
CORPWELF.ZIP     3676  03-30-95  "Critics urge overhaul of Corporate welfare..
                               | handouts, tax breaks for businesses put as
                               | high as $25 BILLION"  Article from the
                               | Toronto Star.  Sept 11, 1993
CSRWP50.ZIP     24420  03-30-95  Mike Harris's Common Sense Revolution        
                               | Outlines Mr. Harris's plan for Ontario in the
                               | upcomeing years.
CULTELIT.ZIP     4237  03-30-95  Reprint from the San Francisco Examiner      
                               | "the 'cultural elite' and the rest of us" 
                               | This is an article about Gays having more
                               | extra rights making them 'cultural elite'
DIVERSE2.ZIP     3780  03-30-95  "At the crossroads of divided loyalties" by  
                               | Raheel Raza of the Toronto Star. Feb 28, 1994
                               | This article is about the divided loyalties
                               | immigrants have.
EECRIT.ZIP       7319  03-30-95  Interesting criticisms of Ontario's
                               | Employment Equity Act - 1993
FEMLAWYR.ZIP     2931  03-30-95  Feminist Lawyer advises woman to falsely     
                               | accuse her husband of being a child abuser to
                               | get a larger and quicker divorce settlement
FORAIDAB.ZIP     3471  03-30-95  "Foreign Aid fattens exiled Hutu Regime" by  
                               | Pauline Jelinek of the Toronto Star. Dec 3/94
FRE-SPCH.ZIP     4333  03-30-95      *** Canadian Free Speech Alert ***       
                               | By Mark Stuckless
BRAINWSH.ZIP    21205  03-20-95  THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND - Persuation and
                              |  Brainwashing Techniques used on the Public
                              |  Today.  By Dick Sutphen
CENCYB_X.ZIP     4062  03-20-95  INTERNET - CENSORSHIP IN CYBERSPACE
                              |  by Mitt Jones.
CFRMEDIA.ZIP     5671  03-20-95  Interesting info on controling influences
                              |  in the media
CSISCAN.ZIP      3999  03-20-95  INTERNET - CANADIAN SECURITY INTELLIGENCE
                              |  SERVICE. Our Spy Agency Paid Informant Who
                              |  Helped Start Neo-nazi Group Grant Bristow
                              |  directed a campaign that may have contributed
                              |  to street clashs.
CSISHER.ZIP      4303  03-20-95  INTERNET - More on the CSIS and the Heritage
                              |  Front.
FREESPCH.ZIP     4476  03-20-95  Canadian (Ontario) free speech threatened    
PATRISE1.ZIP     5075  03-20-95  INTERNET - Subject: PATRIOTISM ON THE RISE.
                              |  From newsgroup: alt.conspiracy
RCMPBO_1.ZIP     3635  03-20-95  INTERNET - Subject: Re: RCMP infected Quebec
                              |  leader?. From newsgroup: alt. conspiracy
ARYAN.ZIP        4509  03-17-95  A look at the world around us.....
                               | National Alliance -- 1978
BLUEBOOK.ZIP    54494  03-17-95  The Blue Book of Kim Campbell's Progressive
                              |  Conservatives.  Still interesting reading
                              |  even though old KIMMY and her party only got
                              |  3 MP's in Ottawa
C300.ZIP        75327  03-17-95  Information on the C300 (group of 300) group.
                              |  This secretive bunch wouldn't want you to
                              |  read this, so read it!
NWO1.ZIP        58080  03-15-95  A collection of New World Order related
ECA.ZIP         20553  03-06-95  (ASCII)  An introduction to the Euro-Canadian
                              |  Alliance..... Includes addresses, phone and
                              |  BBS numbers of other groups, What is the
                              |  Euro-Canadian Alliance, Toronto Media
                              |  Addresses including Phone/Fax numbers,
                              |  Euro-Canadian Alliance's positions on
                              |  selected topics, and what you can do to help
                              |  help futher the cause
88-ORDER.ZIP    11480  03-05-95  (WORD PERFECT)  88 Percepts written by David
                              |  Lane and laid out by the Aryan Women's
                              |  League...
KAHL.ZIP        26520  03-05-95  (WORD PERFECT)  The truth about Gordon Kahl,
                              |  radical tax protester and militant Posse
                              |  Comitatus member.
                              |  Written by Len Martin
ADDRES.ZIP       3139  03-04-95  (ASCII)  Addresses of Pro-White patriotic
                              |  Christian organizations...
IDENTITY.ZIP    45241  03-04-95  (ASCII)  Answers to Frequently Asked
                              |  Questions about the Christian Identity
                              |  movement.
                              |  A MUST DOWNLOAD for anyone interested in the
                              |  Christian Identity Movement
REVADRS.ZIP      2992  03-04-95  (ASCII)  Addresses of Revisionist and
                              |  conspiracy publishers.. Includes Ernst
                              |  Zundel,  W.A.R., National Vanguard Books,
                              |  Barnes Review (ex IHR staffer) and Noontide
                              |  Press.
SCHOOL.ZIP       6171  03-04-95  (ASCII)  Re-print of the Flyer "HATE GROUPS
                              |  AND RACISTS IN CANADA" This flyer was
                              |  distributed around Toronto area public
                              |  schools.... This is a must to
                              |  download!!!!!!!! Shows how pathetic the
                              |  forces against us really are
SHRTWAV.ZIP      3829  03-04-95  (ASCII)  Times and Frequencies of Pro-White,
                              |  Controversial, Survivalist, Identity
                              |  Christian and Revisionist SHORTWAVE radio
                              |  programs.. Also includes the Feb '95
                              |  Scriptures for America Update.
SIRC-REP.ZIP   159780  03-02-95  (ASCII)  The Heritage Front Affair report to
                              |  the Solicitor General of Canada.  Prepared by
                              |  the Security Intelligence Review Committee on
                              |  December 9, 1994.  Includes an overview of
                              |  the extreme right, the rise of the Heritage
                              |  Front, funding of Grant Bristow, spying on
                              |  the Reform party, CBC, and on Postal Workers
                              |  Also talks about the Maguire and Metzger
                              |  incidents.
SHADOWG_.ZIP    28935  02-20-95  A bit more explanation on the NWO, Shadow
                              |  Amazing text file on Social Engineering..    
                              |  Including in ZIP are ASCII, Word Perfect 5
                              |  and Word Perfect 6.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[3] Sound Files (WAV's)                                            [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
BULLYB.WAV     476107  09-21-95           *****  BULLY BOYS  *****
                               | Clip of the song "All Fired Up" from the
                               | album Bully Boys/Division S.  Bully Boys,
                               | P.O. Box 460839, Garland TX 75046, USA
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
NEWMIN.WAV     286764  09-21-95          ***** NEW MINORITY ******
                               | Availible from Resistance Records    
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BFG_4.WAV      337207  09-09-95        *****  BOUND FOR GLORY  *****
                               | Clip of the song "To Much Honor" from the
                               | album Warriors Glory.  Avaiable on BFG
                               | Productions - PO Box 6773 E.St.Paul, MN 55106
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BFG.WAV        288554  08-31-95  a clip of BOUND FOR GLORY
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
POTUS5.WAV     181973  07-27-95  WAV of the President of the United States
                               | Bill Clinton introducing the White House's
                               | World Wide Web site.
                               | Uploaded by: Marc Lemire
AA2.WAV        540852  06-22-95        *****  AGGRAVATED ASSAULT  *****
                               | Clip of the song "A.C. Boys" for the album It
                               | Could Happen To You.  Avaiable on Resistance
                               | Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BFG#1.WAV      460650  06-22-95       *****  BOUND FOR GLORY  *****
                               | Clip of the song "Doctor Marten Dental Plan"
                               | from the album The Fight Goes On.  Avaiable
                               | on Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BFG#2.WAV      748686  06-22-95       *****  BOUND FOR GLORY  *****
                               | Clip of the song "Your Worst Nightmare" from
                               | the album The Fight Goes On.  Avaiable on
                               | Resistance Records.
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
FALLEN.WAV      37868  06-19-95  Elderly sounding woman saying "help, I've
                               | fallen and I can't get up!"
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
ARNIE2.WAV      11448  06-18-95  The three most famous Arnold words!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
FUHRER.WAV     111656  06-13-95  0din's rendition of the Deutschland speech
                               | from Triumf Des Willens - the first wav I
                               | ever recorded - tell me what you think.....
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
FORTRESS.WAV   513968  06-09-95           *****  FORTRESS  *****
                               | Clip of the song "Hail Rock & Roll" from the
                               | album Seize The Day available on Victory
                               | Records.  Melbourne, Australia
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
CENTU.WAV      610607  05-19-95          *****  CENTURION *****
                               | Clip of the song "Retribution" from the album
                               | 14 Words.  Available on Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
CENTU2.WAV     757203  05-19-95          *****  CENTURION  *****
                               | Intro. clip of the song "This Planet is Ours"
                               | from the album 14 Words.  Available on
                               | Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
NORTHU.WAV     634806  05-19-95        *****   NORDIC THUNDER  *****
                               | Clip of the song "We'll Overcome" from the
                               | album Born To Hate.  Available on Resistance
                               | Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
RJM.WAV        695604  05-19-95  Clip of rare speach by martyrd white hero
                               | Robert J. Mathews
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
VOICE.WAV      530072  05-19-95            *****  THE VOICE  *****
                               | Clip of the song "Race War" from the album
                               | Verdunkeln.  Avilable on Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
A_A#1.ZIP      511188  05-12-95  [WAV]   ****** AGGRAVATED ASSAULT *****      
                               | Clip from the Album 'It could happen to you'
                               | Availible from Resistace Records
SKREWDRV.ZIP   692096  05-12-95  [WAV]     ****** SKREWDRIVER ******          
                               | Clip of the song White Rider from the White
                               | Rider sound track
MAXRESI.ZIP    453989  04-17-95  [WAV]     ****** MAX RESIST ******
                               | Clip from the song "14 words" from the CD
                               | "Renegade Youth" on Resistance. For
                               | Merchandise or to contact Max Resist write:
                               | Max Resist, P.O. Box 08-1371, Rochester, MI,
                               | 48308, U.S.A.                        
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
SWORD1.ZIP     884158  04-07-95  [WAV]    ***** DAY OF THE SWORD *****        
                               | Clips from the album "Hail Victory!"
ECA1.ZIP       540965  03-20-95  [WAV] Hotline message from the Euro-Canadian
                               | Action Line (416) 631-3545
                               | ------------------------- ECA1.wav... About
                               | Employment Equity. Originally aired Nov 26 -
                               | 1993
ECA2.ZIP       680643  03-20-95  [WAV] Hotline message from the Euro-Canadian
                               | Action Line (416) 631-3545
                               | ------------------------- ECA2.wav... About
                               | Federal Employment Equity. Originally aired
                               | Sept 10 - 1994
ECA3.ZIP       630397  03-20-95  [WAV] Hotline message from the Euro-Canadian
                               | Action Line (416) 631-3545
                               | ------------------------- ECA3.wav... About
                               | Immigrants with criminal records. Originally
                               | aired May 22 - 1994
ECA4.ZIP       728688  03-20-95  [WAV] Hotline message from the Euro-Canadian
                               | Action Line (416) 631-3545
                               | ------------------------- ECA4.wav... About
                               | Immigrants Quoteing from the Ecomonic Council
                               | of Canada. Originally aired Feb 15 - 1994
ECA5.ZIP       768324  03-20-95  [WAV] Hotline message from the Euro-Canadian
                               | Action Line (416) 631-3545
                               | ------------------------- ECA5.wav... About
                               | the word Racism and Exposing the groups that

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:34 PDT 1995
Article: 8693 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles list part 4
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:04:53 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 532
Message-ID: <43u1ih$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8693 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2648 alt.politics.white-power:3624 alt.skinheads:3382 alt.discrimination:35831

                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.

If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[4] Graphic Files (GIF, JPEG, BMP)                                 [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
CPN1.GIF        86376  01-01-99  (GIF) Logo of the Canadian Patriots Network
                               | owners and operators of Digital Freedom BBS,
                               | The Canadian Patriots Network hotline and
                               | Internet mailing service.
DF-ADD.GIF      46562  01-01-99  [GIF] Digital Freedom BBS advertisement.     
                               |*** DOWNLOAD THIS AND SPREAD IT EVERYWHERE ***
DF-ADD1.EXE    164720  01-01-99  Digital Freedom BBS advertisement in self
                               | displaying format.  Just type in df-add1 and
                               | you will be able to view this.
DF-ADD1.JPG     48420  01-01-99  [JPG] Digital Freedom BBS advertisement in
                               | popular Jpeg format                          
                               |*** DOWNLOAD THIS AND SPREAD IT EVERYWHERE ***
BOOT1.GIF       24545  09-09-95  a pic of a skin
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
OI1.GIF          4307  09-09-95  the word oi
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
OPRESD1.GIF      8414  09-09-95  a pic of a boot
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
OPRESD2.GIF     63957  09-09-95  a pic of the oi band the oppressed
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
EVILFIRE.JPG    31910  09-05-95  Misfits Picture...
                               | Uploaded by: Nordic Thunder
LEGBACK.GIF     43267  09-05-95  Glenn's MiSFiT Character..
                               | Uploaded by: Nordic Thunder
SKELETON.JPG    43427  09-05-95  MiSFiTS SKELETON (GLENN'S)
                               | Uploaded by: Nordic Thunder
WALK_AMO.JPG    36787  09-05-95  walk among us cover
                               | Uploaded by: Nordic Thunder
WOLFSBLO.GIF    54996  09-05-95  MiSFiTS cover of wolfs blood..
                               | Uploaded by: Nordic Thunder
ARYAN.JPG       40058  08-24-95  a white natonal symbol
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
BILLNOSE.ZIP    42806  08-24-95  Bill's Nose - is a Clinton-bashing screen
                               | saver for WIN31. It displays a 256-color
                               | picture of the President and every time he
                               | opens his mouth, his nose grows longer.
                               | Description Copyright 1995 PsL
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FLAG.JPG        21662  08-24-95  a swastika flag
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
KKK.JPG         40659  08-24-95  A kkk symbol
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
ODALRUNE.JPG    27570  08-24-95  a rune
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
HITLER5.GIF     53637  08-16-95  Hitler: as a leader
                               | Uploaded by: Richard Yag
HF3D.BMP        33502  08-05-95  Heritage Front emblem from eye magazine
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
ODIN.GIF        50865  08-05-95  Odin tied himself to the Yggdrasil Tree and
                               | seized the Runes
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
SSVIKING.BMP   394794  08-05-95  Wicked skinhead tatoo - scammed from the
                               | commie propaganda "documentary" hearts of
                               | hate  SS soldier with Viking ghost in
                               | background
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
WOLFIE.GIF      54820  08-05-95  Wolfgang Droege wearing a wolf t-shirt
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
HERLOGOS.ZIP    27510  07-23-95  HERLOGOS.ZIP   A collection of 10 bitmaps of
                               | the Heritage Front logo and 4 HF icons
                               | Uploaded by: Marc Decaire
SLAYER.JPG     138617  07-07-95  My drawing of the Slayer logo ,JPG
                               | Uploaded by: Wojtek Tobola
CELTCROS.GIF    28300  06-22-95  The Celtic Cross
                               | Uploaded by: Andrew Macdonald
6MIL-3.GIF     332464  06-19-95  Cover of the new expanded book "Did Six
                               | Million Really die?"  You can get a copy of
                               | this book by writing to Ernst Zundel at 206
                               | Carlton ST., Toronto, ON., M5A 2L1 or by
                               | calling 416-922-9850.
R_HESS.GIF     207698  06-19-95  RUDOLF HESS LIVES!!!  Picture of the Famous
                               | pictures as seen in German demonstrations.
TORARYAN.GIF   122779  06-13-95  Toronto lakefront with a Viking ship - would
                               | make a good album cover - u/l'ed by 0din
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
BDM.TIF        119046  06-06-95  Nazi propaganda poster with a girl holding a
                               | donation can
BUTLER.GIF     174714  06-06-95  Pastor Richard Butler from Aryan Nations
                               | giving a speech
CARTOON2.GIF   273349  06-06-95  Cartoon on a boy dressed up as Hitler trick
                               | or treating at the GoldBergs house
DRESDEN.GIF     67183  06-06-95  What Dresden, Germany looked like after the
                               | Allied forces bomb it to hell
ECA_FLY.GIF    285689  06-06-95  From the front page of The Villager.  Shows
                               | 2 people tearing down our flyers that were in
                               | the West end of Toronto
GRANTTOR.GIF   291024  06-06-95  Grant Bristow from the Toronto Star.  This is
                               | what he looks like now
NRA.GIF          6144  06-06-95  National Rifle Association Logo
PHIL#1.GIF     187471  06-06-95  An Eagle... Drawn by Phil
PHIL#2.GIF     265596  06-06-95  Canada's Crest... Drawn by Phil
POSTER11.TIF   150882  06-06-95  Nazi prapaganda poster with the Eagle holding
                               | a Swaskika
SECT1.GIF       45786  06-06-95  Comic of the BTAF.  Shows some BTAF officers
                               | with guns with the caption "Yet another
                               | dangerous sect to be disarmed"
WACOBURN.GIF    84769  06-06-95  Home of the Branch Dividians on fire
DARTH.GIF       51485  05-27-95  Head shot of the most evil looking guy to
                               | grace the movie screen.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
HORNET1.GIF    142855  05-27-95  Nice picture of the F-18a Hornet
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
ROME.GIF       253711  05-27-95  The famous Roman Colosseum. Excellent view!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
BA_1.GIF       258270  05-23-95  Brutal Attack playing live at Aryan Fest 93
                               | in Penn.
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BA_2.GIF       279560  05-23-95  Brutal Attack live in Quebec
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BA_3.GIF       235971  05-23-95  Brutal Attack in Penn. playing a rare U.S.
                               | concert
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BULLY.GIF      243289  05-23-95  Bully Boys/Divison S CD cover.  Avaiable on
                               | White Terror Records                 
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
DASREICH.GIF   205595  05-23-95  Das Reich CD cover-Triumph of the Will
                               | avaiable on White Terror Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
G_W_E.GIF      196825  05-23-95  George (RaHoWA), Warren (Aggravated Assault),
                               | and Ed (Bound for Glory) having a good time
                               | after a rock concert.
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
JESUS.GIF      272498  05-23-95  Jesus with his guts torn out!  Not for the
                               | Christian types.  It is very anti-Christian
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
MAXRESIS.GIF   269735  05-23-95  Max Resist live at the West Side Club House
                               | in Detroit MI.
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
MTBB.GIF       289668  05-23-95  Cover of the CD "The Time Has Come" by Mid
                               | Town Boot Boys.  Avaiable on White Terror
                               | Records                              
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
ROGUES.GIF     257599  05-23-95  Cover of the Oi CD "Zero Street" by Rogues
                               | Avaiable on Force Majeure/Rock-O-Rama Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
VOICE.GIF      191304  05-23-95  Cover of the CD "Verdunkeln" by The Voice.
                               | Available on Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
ECA.GIF        151108  05-16-95  (GIF) Logo of the Euro-Canadian Alliance.  In
                               | September 1994 ECA changed it name and formed
                               | into the Canadian Patriots Network
ELISE.GIF      185828  05-16-95  (GIF) Ellise Hategan former Heritage Front
                               | recruiter who now speaks about the "evils" of
                               | the Heritage Front
EZ_PATCH.GIF   116900  05-16-95  (GIF) Ernst Zundel's patches... Very nice
                               | looking
FIRE#1.GIF     357678  05-16-95  (GIF) Picture of the Burnt porch at Ernst
                               | Zundel's house after a terrorist attack on
                               | May the 7th, 1995
FIRE#2.GIF     275343  05-16-95  (GIF) A couple of tired firemen standing on
                               | what is left of the porch at Ernst Zundel's
                               | house and headquarters.
FIRE#3.GIF     270577  05-16-95  (GIF) A full shot of the fire damage to the
                               | front of Ernst Zundel's house after the
                               | terrorist attack.
FIRE#4.GIF     323394  05-16-95  (GIF) Increadible shot of what is left of
                               | Ernst Zundel's roof after the terrorist
                               | attack.  This is a very good shot.... Half
                               | the roof is gone!
FIRE#5.GIF     352737  05-16-95  (GIF) Closeup of the burnt remains of Ernst
                               | Zundel's porch.
FIRE#6.GIF     186572  05-16-95  (GIF) Interesting shot looking up to the
                               | front of Ernst Zundel's house after the fire.
FNB.GIF        365920  05-16-95  (GIF) of Cartoon money made by Phil.  This
                               | one says "First National Bank of OntaRAEo"
                               | and has a picture of Uncle Bobby
GRANT#3.GIF    315828  05-16-95  (GIF) Grant Bristow and his wife Kim at her
                               | mothers house in Mississauga
LOGO_HF2.GIF    90654  05-16-95  (GIF) Colour picture of the Heritage Fronts
                               | logo
MANNING.GIF    194519  05-16-95  (GIF) Preston Manning on the cover of a
                               | booklet entitled "56 Reasons why you should
                               | support the REFORM party of Canada"
MANNING2.GIF   264922  05-16-95  (GIF) Preston Manning being compared to
                               | Heinrich Himmler leader of the Gestapo..
                               | They do really look alike!!!!!!
ML-FREE1.GIF   346876  05-16-95  (GIF) Closeup of a sign in front of Toronto's
                               | city hall... The sign talks not being able to
                               | "promote hatred or genocide against an
                               | identifyable group"  Picture taken by Marc
                               | Lemire
ML_CITY.GIF    198151  05-16-95  (GIF) Picture of Toronto's new City Hall.
                               | Taken by Marc Lemire
ML_FREE2.GIF   341587  05-16-95  (GIF) This is part 2 of ml_free1.gif  This
                               | shows the location of the podium in relation
                               | to city hall.  Taken by Marc Lemire
ML_LESQP.GIF   222068  05-16-95  (GIF) Grafiti on the side of Queens Park
                               | after an Gay protest there.  This bit of
                               | grafiti says "Lesbians".  Taken by Marc
                               | Lemire
ML_QUEER.GIF   269477  05-16-95  (GIF) "Queer Power" spray painted on the long
                               | side walk in front of Queens Park.  Picture
                               | taken my Marc Lemire
ML_QUER2.GIF   221547  05-16-95  (GIF) More grafiti on the side of Queens
                               | Park.  This one says "Queer Taxes".... Please
                               | download this and tell me what the hell queer
                               | taxes means ?!?!
ML_SUN.GIF     259137  05-16-95  (GIF) A garbage truck in the Toronto Sun
                               | parking lot.  Has the logo of the Toronto Sun
                               | on the side of it.                           
                               | I wonder if that is Bill Dunphys office!
RAHOWA.GIF     184169  05-16-95  (GIF) RaHoWa album cover from the album
                               | 'Declaration of WAR'
88104.GIF       41200  05-13-95  Hitler leading the Strmabteilungen -
                               | stormtroopers into a new dawn drawn 1934
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
GO229.GIF       10336  05-13-95  The Gotha 229 stealth fighter of the
                               | Luftwaffe  Feb 1945
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
HE111.GIF       13322  05-13-95  Heinkel 111 mainline Luftwaffe bomber
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
HF.BMP          38918  05-13-95  Heritage front symbol in b&w
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
LUFTICON.ZIP    19917  05-13-95  secret icons of the Luftwaffe - emblems of
                               | all Luftwaffe squadrons in windows icon
                               | format
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
PFAHNE.BMP      15838  05-13-95  The 3. Reich naval flag - use it for windows
                               | wallpaper or paste it into paint, etc
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
ARA-STKR.GIF   222663  05-12-95  Sticker that says "Hammer Skins -- Hammer
                               | 'em" with a cheap picture of a skinhead being
                               | hit with a hammer
ARA_Z.GIF      175217  05-12-95  Anti-Racist Action marching on the Home and
                               | H.Q. of Ernst Zundel
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
BERLIN-W.GIF   436535  05-12-95  Peice of the Berlin wall.  On an aircraft
                               | carrier in New York harbour
BRENTAR1.GIF   280309  05-12-95  Mr. Brentar, An officer for the U.N. relief
                               | agency during 1945-46.  His job was to
                               | interrogate prisoners and refugees to see if
                               | they were KGB agents
CAPITAL.GIF    200771  05-12-95  Nice picture of the White House
DUKE0992.GIF    19606  05-12-95  David Duke address west Mich. NAAWP metting
DUKE1.GIF       33510  05-12-95  David Duke carries a copy of the book "White
                               | Power" during a LSU free speech rally
DUKE2.GIF       28093  05-12-95  David Duke and supporter Babs Minhinnette
DUKE3.GIF       64973  05-12-95  David Duke displays a copy of the Crusader
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
DUKE5.GIF      111462  05-12-95  David Duke wearing a Klan robe ia front of
                               | the British Parlament - 1978
DUKE6.GIF       61846  05-12-95  David Duke leading a search along the Mexican
                               | border.  He is in a car that says "Klan
                               | Border Watch"
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
EZ#1.GIF       256174  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel coming out of court with some of
                               | his followers
EZ#2.GIF       372901  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel on to way to another of his
                               | court dates surrounded by some of his
                               | supporters
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
EZ#3.GIF       331945  05-12-95  The great Holocaust trial in Feburary 1985
EZ#4.GIF       320652  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel being interviewed by City-TV
                               | wearing his "Political Prisoner" outfit
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
EZ#5.GIF       332889  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel sitting in the back of the
                               | Samistat van on the way to win another court
                               | battle
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
EZ#6.GIF       111781  05-12-95  Close up of Holocaust Revisionist Ernst
                               | Zundel
EZ#7.GIF       371380  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel flanked by some of his "Hard
                               | Hatted" supporters
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
EZ#8.GIF       420459  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel carries the "Freedom of Speech
                               | cross" during the Great Holocaust Trial in
                               | 1985
EZ-JAIL.GIF    185265  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel on the way to jail for saying
                               | the Holocaust was a Hoax
EZ-RADIO.GIF   147786  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel while he is doing one of his
                               | many radio shows
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
EZ-SPEIL.GIF   210972  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel sticker that says "Speilberg:
                               | Racist and Bigot for profit" Also has his
                               | address on it
EZ_COP.GIF     136439  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel being escorted by Toronto Police
                               | after one of his many court dates
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
GEORGE.GIF     185347  05-12-95  Rev. George Eric Hawthorne, President of
                               | Resistance Records
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
HOLOCAUS.GIF   283693  05-12-95  Sticker that says "Tired of the Holocaust..
                               | Now you can stop it.. Help Ernst Zundel win
                               | against the Zionists"
LEUCHTER.GIF   224206  05-12-95  Fred Leuchter, American Gas Chamber expert. 
                               | Wrote the book "The Leuchter Report" a
                               | technical report that scientifically blows
                               | the lid off the Holocaust story
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The Beast
LONG.GIF       302242  05-12-95  Canadian Jewish Defence League leader Meir
                               | Halevi takes a swing at Aryan Nations leader
                               | Terry Long at Long's Caroline, AL property in
                               | Sept 1986
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
MAT_5.GIF       65754  05-12-95  Robert J. Mathews's house burns to the ground
                               | with him in it.
MEINKAMP.GIF   181812  05-12-95  Front cover of the book Mein Kampf
NERLAND.GIF    289807  05-12-95  Saskatchewan Aryan Nations leader Carney
                               | Milton Nerland confronts 'Auschwitz survivor'
                               | Sigmund Sobolewski at the Sept, 1990 Aryan
                               | Fest in Provost, Alberta
RAD_FREE.GIF   143865  05-12-95  Radio Free America -- including David Duke
SFLOGO.GIF      12246  05-12-95  Logo of Stormfront BBS
SHINDLER.GIF   114106  05-12-95  Schindlers List.... Hate propaganda for
                               | profit
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
TORONTO.GIF    417674  05-12-95  Nice picture of Toronto taken by Eugene Ernst
WEB_HATE.GIF   258151  05-12-95  Front cover of the book Web of Hate
WOLF#1.GIF     247712  05-12-95  Wolfgang Droege leader of the Canadian based
                               | Heritage Front during a march in Ottawa
                               | Uploaded by: Max R.
ZLOGO.GIF       60878  05-12-95  Ernst Zundel's LOGO
AH#2.GIF       242921  05-05-95  Adolf Hitler standing at table with top
                               | German Brass..
AH#3.GIF       201002  05-05-95  Adolf Hitler in his airplane flyering over
                               | Germany
ARA-D#1.GIF    301811  05-05-95  Anti-Racist Action protesting Roma Restarant.
                               | One sign says "Queers here to stay" and
                               | "Nazi's off our streets"
ARCHIVE.GIF    281813  05-05-95  National archives in Washington D.C.
D-IRVING.GIF   202745  05-05-95  David Irving... World famous controversial
                               | writer. Has over 30 published books including
                               | the famous Hitlers War and a biography
                               | of Rudolf Hess
EZ-MEDIA.GIF   218851  05-05-95  Ernst Zundel being interviewed in the middle
                               | of a circle or reporters... Great picture
FARBER-B.GIF   325854  05-05-95  Bernie Farber of the Canadian Jewish Congress
PLAQUES.GIF    263922  05-05-95  Ernst Zundel in Birkenau in front of
                               | Plaques... Before the plaques said 4 million
                               | dead now they say 1 million... What happened
                               | to the other 3 million????
WANTED.GIF     260022  05-05-95  FBI wanted poster for the Oklahoma bombers
                               | Uploaded by: Dawnrazor
A-RHAMI.GIF    201822  04-26-95  Ahamed Rhami....  Arabic Revisioinist based
                               | in Sweden
AH#1.GIF       253866  04-26-95  Adolf Hitler giving a speech at the Munich
                               | Feldherrn Halle.  Site of the Munich Putsch
BOOBWASH.ZIP   125883  04-23-95  Rodney Bobiwash -- Native Canadian
                               | "Anti-Racist?"
CROSLITE.ZIP    81379  04-23-95  Burning cross with Klansmen around it
CSISLOGO.ZIP    64743  04-23-95  Logo of the Canadian Security "Intelligence"
                               | service
FARRAKAN.ZIP   113288  04-23-95  Louis Farrakhan -- Black Sepratist and
                               | Nation of Islam leader
FURELISE.ZIP    12821  04-23-95  Elisse Hategan -- Former Heritage Front
                               | recruiter who now publically denounces
                               | the Heritage Front....
                               | She even claimes she's a Lesbian!!!
GARYSHIP.ZIP    10367  04-23-95  Heritage Front's former hotline man, Gary
                               | Shipper doing a speech at an HF metting
GRANT1.ZIP      91761  04-23-95  CSIS spy Grant Bristow speaking at an
                               | Heritage Front meeting.  Behind Bristow is a
                               | flag with the Heritage Front's Logo on it.
GRANT3.ZIP     115900  04-23-95  CSIS spy Grant Bristow doing a speech at a
                               | Heritage Front meeting
GRANWOLF.ZIP    73359  04-23-95  CSIS spy Grant Bristow with Heritage Front
                               | leader Wolfgang Droege in Malta onroute to
                               | Libya
WATCHER2.ZIP    42998  04-23-95  CSIS spy Grant Bristow
WOLF4.ZIP       38856  04-23-95  Heritage Front leader Wolfgang Droege
CONDOM10.ZIP   217581  04-22-95  Ernst Zundel standing out front of his paint
                               | stained house after a protest by the  ARA
CONDOM12.ZIP   198729  04-22-95  Protestors outside of Ernst Zundels home
CONDOM3.ZIP    229368  04-22-95  Ernst Zundels wraps his house in plastic to
                               | be safe from a paint bomb attack.
EZ-BUTZ.ZIP    188366  04-22-95  Ernst Zundel with Arthur Butz -- Author of
                               | the "Hoax of the 20th Century"
FAURISON.ZIP   473912  04-22-95  Dr. Robert Faurisson.  Famous Holocaust
                               | Revisionist from France.
G-ARA#1.ZIP    205990  04-22-95  Mr. Ernst Zundel Standing Outside His
                               | House.  On The Wall Next To Him Is A Hateful
                               | Piece Of Vandalism which says "Watch your
                               | Back Zundel... Die NAZI scum..."
                               | Uploaded by: Sid C.
GORING.ZIP      42067  04-04-95  Adolf hitler and generals of the German high
                               | command recoil in disgust when presented with
                               | a pair of Hermann Gring's underwear!
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
HENGE2.ZIP      41902  04-04-95  Stonehenge
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
HITLER.ZIP      29454  04-04-95  A color portrait World War II leader Adolf
                               | Hitler                               
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
MOTRHEAD.ZIP    70969  04-04-95  Motrhead's ensignia
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
RAINBOW.ZIP     19891  04-04-95  Rainbow Brite as a Stormtrooper Biker
                               | Drawn by Odin!
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
SLAYER2.ZIP     22831  04-04-95  A scan of the guitar pick I caught at the
                               | mosh pit at the Slayer concert in Febr.
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
STALIN.ZIP      10803  04-04-95  [GIF] of Russian leader Stalin
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
PISTOL.ZIP       6976  03-07-95  (BMP)  A pistol and Confederate army cap on
                               |        top on a Confederate flag
ARTJONES.ZIP    20350  03-05-95  (GIF)  Close up of Arthur Jones from the
                               |        America First Committee
AUSTIN.ZIP     181103  03-05-95  (GIF)  Racialists standing in front of a
                               |        Celtic Cross
BADGE3.ZIP       3839  03-05-95  (GIF)  SS design inside of a circle
CLOKWORK.ZIP   103940  03-05-95  (GIF)  The cover of Stanley Kubrick's movie  
                               |        Clockwork Orange
DUKE4.ZIP      171516  03-05-95  (GIF)  David Duke standing beside a cross  
                               |        wearing a Klan uniform at Ku Klux Klan
                               |        meeting
HATEMONG.ZIP   320736  03-05-95  (GIF)  A closeup of Elie Wiesel noted fighter
                               |        of holocaust revisionists.
HFLOGO.ZIP       2221  03-05-95  (TIF)  The Heritage Front's LOGO
MAT_1.ZIP      139966  03-05-95  (GIF)  The famous picture of Robert J Mathews
                               |        pointing at a protestor holding a
                               |        "Smash Racism" poster
MAT_3.ZIP       25270  03-05-95  (GIF)  Robert J Mathews holding a Trick or
                               |        Treat bag..... presumibly containing  
                               |        thoudands of dollors
STUD1.ZIP      145337  03-05-95  (GIF)  A National Socialist propaganda poster
                               |        in German showing a young man standing
                               |        in front of a Swastika
WPLOGO.ZIP       5239  03-05-95  (GIF)  A Celtic Cross with the words "White
                               |        Pride World Wide" around the outside
                               |        of it
W_A_R.ZIP        6519  03-05-95  (GIF)  The White Aryan Resistance LOGO
YAR_LANE.ZIP    99325  03-05-95  (GIF)  Gary Yarbough and David Lane with
                               |        pistols... one dressed in a Klan
                               |        uniform and the other with army
                               |        fatigues on
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[5] Online Publications                                            [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
UF_19.TXT      101961  09-19-95         ***** UPFRONT ONLINE *****            
                               | Online issue of the Heritage Front's
                               | 'UpFront'.  This is issue #19.  Has the usual
                               | sections like 'Turners Diary' and 'Letters to
                               | the Editor' plus this months issue has a
                               | story on 'Apartied in Canada' and some
                               | articles on Immigration.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
CCANCITI.ZIP     7552  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | +--------------------------------------------
                               | -------------------------------+ |
                               | Executive Editor: Xinlei Wang
                               | (xwang@ug.cs.dal.ca)             |
                               | +--------------------------------------------
                               | -------------------------------+ | This FCSSC
                               | NR is sent to 10,000-25,000 worldwide
                               | subscribers and readers. |
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN00.ZIP      8458  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN01.ZIP      4953  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN02.ZIP      3435  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN03.ZIP      4846  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN04.ZIP      8078  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN05.ZIP     33386  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN06.ZIP      4860  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN07.ZIP      4541  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:35 PDT 1995
Article: 8694 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles list part 5
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:05:57 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 502
Message-ID: <43u1kk$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8694 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2649 alt.politics.white-power:3625 alt.skinheads:3383 alt.discrimination:35832

                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.

If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CICAN08.ZIP      4701  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN09.ZIP      2004  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN10.ZIP      7584  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN11.ZIP     11173  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN12.ZIP      8276  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN13.ZIP      5746  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN14.ZIP      3747  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN15.ZIP     10258  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN16.ZIP      2688  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN17.ZIP      5326  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN18.ZIP      3552  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN19.ZIP      3546  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN20.ZIP      3421  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN21.ZIP      2220  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN22.ZIP      7668  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN23.ZIP      5009  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN24.ZIP      7685  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN25.ZIP      9440  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | subscribers and readers. |
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN26.ZIP      7660  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN27.ZIP     11482  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
CICAN28.ZIP      9583  09-17-95  Immigration to Canada Newsletter from the
                               | Federation of Chinese Students and Scholars
                               | in Canada
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS12.ZIP        22965  09-17-95  Free Speech Volume 12
                               | from American Dissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS13.ZIP        24817  09-17-95  Free Speech vol. 13
                               | from American Dissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS14.ZIP        26007  09-17-95  Free Speech vol. 14
                               | from American Dissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS15.ZIP        29113  09-17-95  Free Speech vol. 15
                               | from AmericanDissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS16.ZIP        28216  09-17-95  Free Speech vol. 16
                               | from American Dissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FS18.ZIP        29565  09-17-95  Free Speech vol. 17
                               | from American Dissident Voices
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
FREE95-1.TXT    63619  06-13-95  FREE SPEECH... Number 1.  The first issue
                               | from American Dissident Voices
FSFEB.TXT       57977  06-06-95  FREE SPEECH No.2 Publication by the National
                               | Alliance for supporters of their radio show
                               | "American Dissident Voices"
FSMAR.TXT       61547  06-06-95  FREE SPECH No.3
AN_ONT1.TXT      3196  06-01-95  Aryan Nations Ontario Report #1              
                               | Includes information on Pastor Charles Scott
FREE95-4.TXT    68096  05-29-95  FREE SPEECH... Number 4.  This is the
                               | Monthly newletter of American Dissident
                               | Voices.  This issue includes stories on
                               | "Skinheads and the Law", "Music of the White
                               | Resistance", "Brainwashing in America"
FREE95-5.TXT    74368  05-29-95  FREE SPEECH... Number 5.  This is the
                               | monthly newletter of American Dissident
                               | Voices.  This issue includes stories on
                               | "Terror Breeds Terror: Oklahoma city in
                               | Prespective", "Quotes with out comments",
                               | "Immigration:Death sentence for America",
                               | "Evil in High Places"
AN_PROG4.ZIP     4104  04-22-95  Aryan Nations Progress Report #4             
                               | Has sections like "Recent media coverage" and
                               | "Upcoming events".  Their is also a list of
                               | 21 Aryan Nations chapters across the United
                               | States.
SPOTLIGH.ZIP   115802  03-31-95  Online Issues of "Spotlight" magazine        
                               | Topics include "Big Brother builds spy
                               | facilities into your phone","Boutros-Ghali
                               | front man for the New World Order","Holocaust
                               | memorial","Bill Clinton **CIA OPERATIVE**"   
                               | Makes for some very good reading.  Their are 
                               | 54 different articles in the Zip
UF-1.ZIP        41184  03-30-95  Up Front Online: Issue #1 December 1991      
                               | Articles include "David Duke... Where no Klan
                               | has gone Before","Opting out?... or copping
                               | out? Rural revolution or retreat from
                               | reality","Open door immigration INSANITY:
                               | What would our founding fathers say?","
                               | Anti-Racism: An exercise in hypocrisy" also
                               | includes the usual extras like Turner's
                               | Diary--Personal reflections of the Author!
UF-17.ZIP       51009  03-30-95  Up Front Online: Issue #17 November 1994     
                               | Articles include "Adios, El Observador" on
                               | the Grant Bristow affair, "How long can we
                               | go?","Liaison with the whistle-blower...Brian
                               | McInnis comes in from the heat" and a good
                               | article on immigration Minister Sergio Marchi
UF-18.ZIP       52255  03-30-95  Up Front Online: Issue #18 April 1995        
                               | Articles include "Act of Bravery leads to
                               | assualt conviction" reguarding the recent
                               | jailing of Heritage Front spokeman Wolfgang
                               | Droege.  Other articles in this issue include
                               | "Love you Race?... Then you've got a HEART OF
                               | HATE", and the informative article "Racialism
                               | on the Electronic Highway", also talks about
                               | the passing on of the Great Canadian John
                               | Ross Taylor.
CCH_BITF.ZIP     3962  03-05-95  (ASCII)  Winter 1994-1995 edition of Blood in
                               | the Face -- Newsletter of the Canadian
                               | Christian Hotline
AN_PROG1.ZIP     3381  03-04-95  Aryan Nations Progress Report #1 Includes
                               | sections on "Recent Media coverage" and
                               | "Upcoming Events"  Also talks about the new
                               | political alliance with the NSDAP/AO
AN_PROG2.ZIP     4402  03-04-95  Aryan Nations Progress Report #2 Includes
                               | sections on "Recent Media coverage" and
                               | "Upcoming Events"  Also talks about 4 new AN
                               | state offices, the death of John Ross Taylor
                               | and up and coming 1st Lieutenant Charles
                               | Scott who is starting up a new Canadian 
                               | Aryan Nations Chruch
AN_PROG3.ZIP     3321  03-04-95  Aryan Nations Progress Report #3 (JAN '95)
                               | Has sections like "Recent media coverage" and
                               | "Upcoming Events"  Includes 3 new AN state
                               | offices and talks about the Youth gathering
                               | going on at the Aryan nations headquarters.
                               | This gathering will include the music of the
                               | Pro-White band "Bound for Glory"
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[6] IBM Utilities (DOS & WIN)                                      [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
PROBE203.ARJ    11074  09-09-95  PROBE v2.03.  A small DOS file searching
                               | utility.  Unlike other file finding programs,
                               | Probe has no complex command line parameters
                               | that will confuse you! This program is
                               | FREEWARE.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
TBAV638.ZIP    310200  09-09-95  Thunderbyte Anti-Virus - The most complete
                               | anti-virus system available.  Included are
                               | TbScan, TbScanX, TbSetup, TbClean, TbDisk,
                               | TbFile, TbMem, TbCheck, and TbUtil.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
GRAPHWS.ZIP    555324  08-31-95  ۲ Graphic Workshop for Windows 1.1f 
                               | The best Workshop yet! Converts prints views
                               | dithers transforms flips rotates scales crops
                               | colour adjusts scans quantizes and wreaks
                               | special effects on MAC IMG PCX GIF TIFF JPG
                               | PCD WPG MSP IFF/LBM BMP RLE CUT ART RAS TGA
                               | EXE & TXT files. Has thumbnail previews &
                               | Photo-CD support. From Alchemy Mindworks Inc.
                               | Uploaded by: David Hrabluk
AUROR112.ZIP   403846  08-25-95  The Aurora Editor v1.12 is a beautiful new
                               | high performance text editor with a superb
                               | windowing environment, full mouse support, a
                               | huge 1 Gigabyte paged virtual memory using
                               | XMS/EMS/disk, object oriented macro language,
                               | multi instance programmable file manager,
                               | unlimited undo/redo, a 386 version, user
                               | definable menus, keyboard, and toolbar, text
                               | folding, binary edit, 16K max line length,
                               | shrinks to 1.2k, file scan, bookmarks, more!
ATT34ALL.ZIP   396839  08-16-95  All the Time 3.4. This modest, unassuming
                               | little clock will surprise you with its
                               | versatility, huh huh huh. Show time/date in
                               | any format you can concoct. Monitor memory/
                               | resources. Display tree/moon graphics showing
                               | seasons, moon phases, night/day. Customize -
                               | from minimalist to silly to info-packed.
                               | Requires VBRUN300.DLL and Win 3.1. Free. ATT
                               | CLOCK MEMORY RESOURCES MOON TREE SOURCE
                               | Wilson Smith (& Carole Rogers). CIS-70741,422
                               | Uploaded by: Roberto Yamaguchi
FP-218E.ZIP    582059  08-16-95  F-PROT version 2.18e - July 1995  The F-PROT
                               | anti-virus package contains a virus scanner
                               | combined with a disinfection program, as well
                               | as a resident monitoring program for
                               | intercepting known viruses.  This program is
                               | free of charge for private users, but others
                               | are required to register or obtain the
                               | 'Professional' version - see the
                               | documentation for details.
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
NVISION.ZIP    471192  08-16-95  The NOMSSI Viewer, Release 1.5 Graphics file
                               | Viewer for SuperVGA Detects about 180 VGA
                               | chipsets. Reads GIF, TIFF, Windows/OS2 BMP,
                               | TGA, JPEG, IFF/LBM/HAM, PCX, PNG. Writes GIF,
                               | TIFF, BMP and TGA. All standard editing
                               | functions, Slideshow and Catalog on the fly.
                               | Uploaded by: Roberto Yamaguchi
WINCAKE.ZIP    620839  08-16-95  Its an excellent midi player and composer.
                               | You can compose your own music by attaching
                               | your keyboard, or electric piano to your
                               | sblaster card, and start playing.
                               | Uploaded by: Erwin Potoczny
ALCOMMO.ZIP      5747  08-05-95  Automatic {COMMO} Mail Run v3.2, by Al Werner
                               | - These macros will log onto your favorite
                               | WildCat and PC Board BBS, upload replies and
                               | then download new mail. New Features:
                               | Modified to work with {COMMO} 6.0 and above,
                               | made the macro's stand alone so that you
                               | don't have to modify your existing COMMO.MAC
                               | file, now handles WildCat 4.0 prompts.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
SNOOPER.ZIP    337177  08-05-95  SNOOPER v3.30  - System info utility.
                               | Shows CPU/NDP, CPU speed, DOS, BIOS, memory,
                               | disks, video, CD-ROM, env, kbd, sound cards,
                               | ports, IDE model, CMOS info, disk cache,
                               | Stacker, FILES & BUFFERS, IRQs, DMA, modems,
                               | mice, port IRQs. Lets you edit CMOS, CONFIG,
                               | & AUTOEXEC. Network and benchmark screens,
                               | detects 1100 MicroChannel cards. New version
                               | adds Auto-log feature, fixes a few bugs.
                               | Ideal for tech support, HW inventory, & you!
                               | Uploaded by: Ivanc
WPLANY.ZIP      30305  08-05-95  Plays sound files with the .AU extension
                               | Uploaded by: Rob Talos
PROBE201.ZIP    11552  07-17-95  PROBE v2.01.  A small DOS file searching
                               | utility.  Unlike other file finding programs,
                               | Probe has no complex command line parameters
                               | that will confuse you! This program is
                               | FREEWARE.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
WSC-221E.ZIP   580324  07-07-95  VirusScan for Windows new version 2.2.0 (221)
                               | 04/20/95 by McAfee, Inc.  Scans and cleans
                               | PC's/LAN's for known and new viruses.
                               | Requires Windows 3.1+.
MODAC110.ZIP    85169  06-28-95  MODAC 110 is a MOD/VOC/WAV player/recorder
                               | for DOS supporting ((stereo)) for VGA systems
                               | and any of 6 sound devices (v1.931018).
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
WOW.ZIP         23980  06-28-95  Wow! It's a German MOD player that'll play
                               | MODs on your PC speaker!
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
TM420-1.ZIP    170197  06-22-95  TELEMATE 4.20, Powerful comm program, 1 of 4
                               | TELEMATE is a multi-threading communication
                               | program. Featuring ANSI/Avatar/VT52/VT102
                               | terminal, editor, viewer, huge backscroll,
                               | clipboard and many unique functions. Built-in
                               | mouse support provides easy access to all
                               | functions. This high quality comm program
                               | gives you OS/2-like power in a DOS program.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
TM420-2.ZIP    234529  06-22-95  TELEMATE 4.20, Powerful comm program, 2 of 4
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
TM420-3.ZIP    174632  06-22-95  TELEMATE 4.20, Powerful comm program, 3 of 4
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
TM420-4.ZIP    233311  06-22-95  TELEMATE 4.20, Powerful comm program, 4 of 4
                               | Part 4 includes Telemate supporting files and
                               | the bundled GIFLink protocol driver that
                               | allows you to view transmitting GIF images in
                               | stunning SuperVGA graphics! Support
                               | X/Y/Zmodem/CIS QuickB. Can skip receiving
                               | images. Easy to install.
                               | Uploaded by: Christopher Saunders
PLAYWAV.ZIP     37120  06-19-95  Play .wav files through your PC speaker. If
                               | you don't have a sound card, this program is
                               | for you! You can also adjust volume and
                               | speed, but it works best with speech.
                               | Uploaded by: Mark Electric
PRTGF105.ZIP    78261  06-19-95  PRINTGF v1.04  - A GIF printer for
                               | IBM/DOS systems. Outputs 240 level/plane b/w
                               | or color, with pattern and/or error diffusion
                               | dithering, brightness and contrast control,
                               | gamma and gray balance color correction, user
                               | selectable clip area, print size, portrait or
                               | landscape. Supports 9, 24 pin printers, HP
                               | LaserJet, DeskJet, PaintJet, Canon LBP, BJ,
                               | BJC, PDP ProTracer, VESA SVGA, and many other
                               | printers and displays. Shareware - $34.
                               | Uploaded by: White Riot
SPEAKER.ZIP      8064  06-18-95  PC speaker driver for Windows.
                               | Uploaded by: B. McCabe
AUTOWN13.ZIP   535900  06-09-95  AutoWinNet 1.3 - Complete Internet
                               | Automation! Leech TERABYTES of NEW files from
                               | the Internet without even being home!
                               | Performs FTP, USENET, MAIL, World Wide Web
                               | with ZERO effort.  He is an Add-On to your
                               | current SLIP/PPP programs, and works great
                               | with IBOX, Trumpet, Mosaic, and OS/2.
                               | Lightning fast, hammers at busy FTP sites,
                               | keeps mailing lists, tracks your files in its
                               | own database.  Internal
                               | PKZIP/ARJ/ARC/ZOO/LHA/HYP/HAP archive
                               | Uploaded by: Bmw Rider
SXR401.ZIP     407726  06-09-95  Silver Xpress Off-Line Mail Reader 4.01, The
                               | most powerful off-line mail system in the
                               | world from Santronics Software. Now in 7th
                               | year! Direct support for QWK, OPX, FidoNet,
                               | Internet, Fax, Forms Processing, Speech
                               | Friendly Interface, Intelligent Mail
                               | Searching and Management, elegant Look and
                               | Feel, much more! Toll Free Technical Support.
                               | Fully featured Shareware Version.
                               | Uploaded by: Bmw Rider
D2-125.ZIP     277788  05-29-95  New release of Qmail DeLuxe 1.25 offline
                               | mail reading system from Sparkware. Includes
                               | everything you need to "try before you buy".
                               | You can now read up to 20 messages in each
                               | conference in demo mode.  This file also is
                               | an update for registered Qmail DeLuxe owners
                               | -  see README for how to update your copy
                               | online.
EZ139.ZIP      190845  05-29-95  EZ-Reader 1.39 - The Ultimate Offline Mail
                               | Reader for QWK mail systems. This release
                               | corrects the problem with saving replies.
                               | Supports 2500 conferences and 400 messages
                               | per conference. ASP Member
OLX-TD.EXE     228665  05-29-95  Off-Line Express... Test Drive.              
                               | OLX is a pretty good Offline Mail reader with
                               | QWK support
SLMR21A.ZIP    161688  05-29-95  Silly Little Mail Reader V.21a               
                               | This is a very good beginers QWK mail reader.
TAGLX200.ZIP   196115  05-29-95  Tag Line Xpress  v2.00  is  an  enhanced
                               | tagline manager for offline mail readers
                               | Offers  UNLIMITED taglines;  has a built in
                               | quote enhancer; and suggests taglines based
                               | on your message. TLX is shareware.
ANSICHK9.ZIP    59166  05-18-95  ANSICHK v9.0: Check for ANSI Bombs & Trojans
                               | Uploaded by: Sid C.
UNZEXE.ZIP       8555  05-18-95  this will unzip or files for with all the
                               | necessary switches automatically done. just
                               | type unz (filename) or zip (filename)
                               | Uploaded by: Bmw Rider
2SHOW106.ZIP   236428  05-13-95  Release 1.06a of CompuShow 2000! A HOT new
                               | interface and all the graphics capabilities
                               | of CompuShow, the full-featured graphics
                               | display system for GIF, RLE MacPaint, PC
                               | Paint, PC Paintbrush, ColoRIX, EGA Paint,
                               | IMG, Dr. Halo, Targa, IFF/LBM/HAM, BMP, Tiff,
                               | and JFIF (JPEG) graphics on IBM compatibles
                               | with Hercules, CGA, EGA, MCGA, VGA, 8514/a,
                               | XGA, VESA and Super-VGA adapters including
                               | hi-color SVGAs.
ANIPPR16.ZIP  1194576  05-13-95  AniPaint Pro 1.6  Paint and Animate 150+
                               | tools.   Faster, Better. 256 colors.Requires
                               | minimum 286 with VGA or SVGA and mouse.
                               | Resolutions from 320x200 to 2048x1024. Make
                               | animated movies, Presentations etc. Complete
                               | Documentation and Demos. Bitmap & Vector
                               | graphics with Clip Art and Objects. Font
                               | editor, Font Capture, Capture Palettes, Cut &
                               | Paste palettes, Undo/Redo with Autosave,
                               | Gradient Curves, Magnetic Lines, Screen
                               | Saver. Disk Search, Cybrfind intelligent
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
CSHW876A.ZIP   250857  05-13-95  CompuShow version 8.76a The full-featured
                               | graphics display system for GIF, RLE,
                               | MacPaint, PC Paint, PC Paintbrush, ColoRIX,
                               | EGA Paint, IMG, Dr. Halo, Targa, IFF/LBM/HAM,
                               | BMP, Tiff, and JFIF (JPEG) graphics on IBM
                               | compatibles with Hercules, CGA, EGA, MCGA,
                               | VGA, 8514/a, XGA, VESA and Super-VGA adapters
                               | including hi-color SVGAs.
DCVIEW.ZIP     298140  05-13-95  ColorView v. 2.1 for DOS 2.x, 3.x, 5.x High
                               | Speed JPEG/JFIF, GIF, BMP Viewer, Converter,
                               | and Image Editor. Graphical User Interface
                               | with VESA compliant display. Batch file
                               | conversions in Text mode. JPEG Is A Highly
                               | Compressed 24 Bit "True Color" Picture File
                               | Format Which Has More Colors And A Smaller
                               | File Size Than GIF Files. HSV and Gamma
                               | correction. [Association of Shareware
                               | Professionals]
GDS31D.ZIP     398643  05-13-95   GDS:Graphic Display System 3.1d ۲
                               | Like CSHOW & VPIC, but far better! Shows,
                               | CATALOGS, converts, flips, rotates,crops,
                               | scales, dithers, GIF,JPG,PCX,TIF,IFF,LBM,
                               | HAM,BMP,RLE,TGA,MAC,WPG,CUT,ANSI & TXT.
                               | Supports nearly all SVGAs. QUICK, EASY &
                               | MOUSE DRIVEN, complete hypertext help and
                               | prints good manual. SYSOP vers available!
                               | Great ASP shareware. (Photodex-r11/11/94)
                               | Uploaded by: Jack Douglas
LATHE.ZIP       42191  05-13-95  Minicad for lathe oriented work - produces 3d
                               | renderings from your 2d worksheet
                               | Uploaded by: Odin
SCN-220E.ZIP   448122  04-24-95  VirusScan for DOS new version 2.2.0 (220)
                               | 03/31/95 by McAfee, Inc.  Scans and cleans
                               | PC's/LAN's for known and new viruses.
                               | Requires DOS 3.0+.
VSH-220E.ZIP   592758  04-24-95  VShield version 2.2.0 (220) 03/31/95 by
                               | McAfee, Inc.  Memory-resident (TSR) virus
                               | protection and prevention. Auto-loads into
                               | RAM above 1Mb.  Req: DOS 3+, 67Kb.
GRFWK70E.ZIP   543978  04-22-95  ۲ Graphic Workshop for DOS 7.0d
                               |  The best Workshop yet! Converts,
                               | prints, views, dithers,  transforms, flips,
                               | rotates,  scales, crops, colour adjusts,
                               | catalogs, quantizes and wreaks special
                               | effects on MAC,  IMG, PCX, GIF, TIFF,  EPS,
                               | JPG, WPG, MSP,  IFF/LBM, WMF, BMP, RLE,  CUT,
                               |  ART,  HRZ,  RAS,  TGA,  EXE and TXT files.
                               | Mouse driven  interface,  supports most super
                               | VGA cards and printers. From Alchemy
                               | Mindworks Inc.
                               | Uploaded by: Sid C.
WNCODE15.ZIP   113600  04-17-95  Wincode 15, encodes/decodes uuencoded files.
                               | Windows program.  Use this program to encode
                               | pictures to be sent as e-mail.  It will also
                               | decodes messages into pictures.  Very good


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:38 PDT 1995
Article: 8697 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles list part 7
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:07:59 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 541
Message-ID: <43u1oe$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8697 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2651 alt.politics.white-power:3627 alt.skinheads:3385 alt.discrimination:35834

                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.

If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZUNDELWI.ZIP     6677  06-01-95  "Zundel wins in Canada's SUPREME COURT:
                               | Victory for Free Speech and Revisionism; Now
                               | free Zundel counters new attacks; Vindication
                               | after nine years of legal struggle" From the
                               | Oct 1992 IHR Newsletter
ADVENTUR.ZIP     3565  05-29-95  The adventure of Revisionism by Robert
                               | Faurisson.  Reprinted from the Institute for
                               | Historical Review
BRAD2NAT.ZIP     3878  05-29-95  An open letter to the "Village Voice" about
                               | the old Jewish Soap Scam.  written by Bradley
                               | R. Smith
CONTROVE.ZIP     8981  05-29-95  The Holocaust Controversy -- The case for
                               | open debate.  Written by Bradley R. Smith
CRACKDWN.ZIP     3593  05-29-95  French government cracks down on
                               | Revisionists...Official suppresion of basic
                               | human rights.  Re-printed from the Institute
                               | for Historical review's newsletter
DAILYTEX.ZIP     5357  05-29-95  An open letter to the Daily Texan.  Written
                               | by Jewish Revisionist David Cole
DGINVADE.ZIP     6790  05-29-95  How and  Why  I  "Invaded"  the Computer
                               | Networks written by Dan Gannon of Banished
                               | CPU
DRESDEN.ZIP     20936  05-29-95  Two articles on the Dresden Holocaust.
GENIECEN.ZIP     3385  05-29-95  LATEST COMPUTER NETWORK HOLOCAUST DEBATE
                               | CLOSED   DOWN   "Electronic   Democracy"
                               | Includes Censorship
GERIDOT.ZIP      1854  05-29-95  "Why the  Germans  are  Idiots..."  Read
                               | carefully - The  comments  may  surprise you
                               | -  (The  Editor)  From  the "Israel
                               | Nachrichten" (Tel Aviv)
HOLOCAM.ZIP      1418  05-29-95  GERMANS WANT END TO HOLOCAUST CAMPAIGN
HOLOQUES.ZIP     8393  05-29-95  66   Questions   and   Answers   On  The
                               | Holocaust,  published  By  The Institute For
                               | Historical  Review  P.O.  Box  1306 Torrance,
                               | California 90505 U.S.A.
IRVSPECH.ZIP    45153  05-29-95  A seven-part speech  by  David Irving on the
                               | Holocaust
JEWSOAP.ZIP      7670  05-29-95  The "Human Soap" Holocaust Myth
LUTHER.ZIP       3257  05-29-95  Martin   Luther:    Protestant  Reformer
                               | Speaks out on Zionism
SCHINDLR.TXT     4660  05-29-95  Schindlers List falsifies History by Dan
                               | Gannon of Banished CPU
SIMONWIE.ZIP     8704  05-29-95  SIMON WIESENTHAL:   Bogus  "Nazi Hunter" by
                               | Mark Weber
SLAM.ZIP         2308  05-29-95  An  error-packed  "guest  editorial"  by
                               | Indiana    State    University   history
                               | professor  Richard   Pierard   attacking
                               | Holocaust  Revisionism  appeared March 9 in
                               | the influential journal 'Christianity Today.'
                               | The  IHR's  response appeared in the May 18,
                               | 1992 issue.
SOAPSCAM.ZIP    16569  05-29-95  RUB-A-DUB-DUB Notes  on  the Jewish Soap Scam
                               |   Excerpted   from    The    Second
                               | [Enlarged]  Edition of _Confessions of a
                               | Holocaust  Revisionist_  by  Bradley  R.
                               | Smith
WHYREVIS.ZIP     9742  05-29-95  WHY HOLOCAUST  REVISIONISM?  by Theodore J.
                               | O'Keefe
ZNDLSHOW.ZIP     3010  05-29-95  Ernst Zundel TV show sparks controversy
AIRPHOT1.ZIP  1200245  05-20-95  Excerpts from the 116-page book by John C.
                               | Ball, AIR PHOTO EVIDENCE: AUSCHWITZ,
                               | TREBLINKA, MAJDANEK, SOBIBOR, BERGEN BELSEN,
                               | BELZEC, BABI YAR, KATYN FOREST...  An
                               | appropriate graphics viewer is needed to view
                               | the 62 individual GIF files, which are
                               | digitized to fit on a 640*480*256 greyscale
                               | (or color) screen.  A printer is strongly
                               | recommended.
AIRPHOT2.ZIP  1199801  05-20-95  Airphoto's 2 of 8
AIRPHOT3.ZIP  1186954  05-20-95  Airphoto's 3 of 8
AIRPHOT4.ZIP  1182868  05-20-95  Airphoto's 4 of 8
AIRPHOT5.ZIP  1183269  05-20-95  Airphoto's 5 of 8
AIRPHOT6.ZIP  1150966  05-20-95  Airphoto's 6 of 8
AIRPHOT7.ZIP  1185750  05-20-95  Airphoto's 7 of 8
AIRPHOT8.ZIP   759022  05-20-95  Airphoto's 8 of 8
BANISH3.GIF     68642  05-20-95  [GIF] BBS add for Banished CPU american
                               | Revisionist BBS located in Portland, OR
FORGDNFO.ZIP     2461  05-20-95  Descriptions of the pictures contained in the
                               | "forged" set
FORGED-A.ZIP  1046191  05-20-95  Excerpts from the 80-page booklet by Udo
                               | Walendy, FORGED "WAR CRIME" PHOTOS MALIGN THE
                               | GERMAN PEOPLE!  An appropriate graphics
                               | viewer is needed to view the 68 individual
                               | GIF files, which are digitized to fit on a
                               | 640*480*256 SVGA greyscale (or color) screen.
                               |  A printer is strongly recommended. This
                               | package consists of eleven ZIP archives:
                               | FORGED-A.ZIP through FORGED-J.ZIP
FORGED-B.ZIP  1046838  05-20-95  Forged B of J
FORGED-C.ZIP  1086448  05-20-95  Forged C of J
FORGED-D.ZIP  1035809  05-20-95  Forged D of J
FORGED-E.ZIP  1075491  05-20-95  Forged E of J
FORGED-F.ZIP   968050  05-20-95  Forged F of J
FORGED-G.ZIP  1025913  05-20-95  Forged G of J
FORGED-H.ZIP  1067364  05-20-95  Forged H of J
FORGED-I.ZIP  1035546  05-20-95  Forged I of J
FORGED-J.ZIP  1066183  05-20-95  Forged J of J
60MINLIE.ZIP    14014  05-19-95  "60 MINUTES",  HOLOCAUST  PROPAGANDA and the
                               | BIG LIE.... Exposed by Dan Gannon of
                               | Banished.com --------------------------------
BOTHSIDE.ZIP     9940  05-19-95  Revisionists   Challenge   Extermination
                               | Story.  THE HOLOCAUST: Let's  Hear  Both
                               | Sides by Mark Weber.
BUTZNTRO.ZIP     5831  05-19-95  A Brief Introduction to Holocaust
                               | Revisionism.  Written by ARTHUR R. BUTZ
CAMPSLIB.ZIP    11719  05-19-95  The  "Liberation  of  the Camps":  FACTS vs.
                               | LIES By Theodore J. O'Keefe
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
CASEOPEN.ZIP     5910  05-19-95  THE HOLOCAUST STORY:  HOW MUCH IS FALSE? The
                               | Case for Open Debate
FGASDOOR.ZIP     1749  05-19-95  Gas Chamber  Door Fraudulently Portrayed at
                               | US Holocaust Museum
GASCHMBR.ZIP     9621  05-19-95  The 'Problem  of  the  Gas  Chambers' By
                               | Robert Faurisson
HOLOHOAX.ZIP     2463  05-19-95  IS THE  HOLOCAUST  A  HOAX?  Within five
                               | minutes,  any  intelligent,  open-minded
                               | person  can  be   convinced   that   the
                               | Holocaust gassings of World War II are a
                               | profitable hoax.
IRVFINED.ZIP     4390  05-19-95  Irving  Fined  $6,000   in  German  "Gas
                               | Chamber" Trial Historian Defies Judge in
                               | Dramatic Case
WTRAH.ZIP        7754  05-19-95  Was there really a Holocaust?
                               | Uploaded by: Beast From The East
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[10] Ken McVays Anti-Revisionist Files                             [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
******************************************************************************
****** THE FOLLOWING FILES ARE FROM KEN MCVAYS ANTI-REVISIONIST FTP SITE *****
******          NITZKOR HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL FTP.ALMANAC.BC.CA             *****
******************************************************************************

BRADLEY.DOC      2295  07-29-95  Personal accounts of what happened in the
                               | second world war by Philip R. Bradley.
                               | LT Col., JACG, retired
PREFACE.ARA      2125  07-29-95  Belzic, Sobibor and Triblinka: Excerpt from
                               | the book by Yitzhak Arad.
PROLOG.ARA       5114  07-29-95  Another excerpt from the book Belzic, Sobibor
                               | and Triblinka by Zitzhak Arad
REINHARD.001     2163  07-29-95  Hitler discusses final solution
REUTERS.040      5828  07-29-95  Survivors of V2 Nazi slave camp mark
                               | liberation.  From Reuters
REUTER.053       1431  07-25-95  Suspect letters confuse German arson trial. 
                               | From Reuters.
REUTER.060       3248  07-25-95  Austria deputies to debate fund for Nazi
                               | victims.  From Reuters
REUTER.1         2732  07-25-95  Nazi war criminal may have moved to South
                               | America.  From Reuters
REUTER.2         3042  07-25-95  Weisenthal urges Germany to try Nazi war
                               | collaborators.  From Reuters
RUSHTON-.REP    57780  07-25-95  Right-Wing Extremeism in the Federal Republic
                               | of Germany 1973-1995.                        
                               | A study and analyis of the rise of Right-Wing
                               | politics and attitudes in the FRG over two
                               | decades.                              
                               | Written by Reginald M Rushton. June 1995
SOAP.05          5657  07-25-95  Nazi Soap rumour during World war two.  From
                               | the LA times.  Written by Deborah Lipstadt
                               | The "Pope-ess" of the Holocaust.
YVS.CAM         45989  07-09-95  All the following are from the proceedings of
                               | the fourth Yad Vashem conference             
                               | [1/13]  Jewish Prisoner uprising in the
                               | Triblinka and Sobibor extermination camps
YVS16.01         4895  07-09-95  The following 2-12 are about Operation
                               | Reinhold: Extermination camps of Belzec,
                               | Triblinka and Sobibor                  
                               | [2/13] Background and introduction
YVS16.02         5130  07-09-95  [3/13] The personnel of Operation Reinhold
YVS16.03        11994  07-09-95  [4/13] The construction of Belzec
YVS16.04        10012  07-09-95  [5/13] The construction of Sobibor
YVS16.05         4582  07-09-95  [6/13] The construction of Triblinka
YVS16.06        10896  07-09-95  [7/13] Belzec: from March 17 to June 1942
YVS16.07         6006  07-09-95  [8/13] Sobibor: from May to June 1942
YVS16.08         7776  07-09-95  [9/13] Triblinka from July 23 to Aug 28, 1948
YVS16.09         8150  07-09-95  [10/13] The construction of larger gas
                               | chambers
YVS16.10         5929  07-09-95  [11/13] The attempt to remove traces
YVS16.11         7231  07-09-95  [12/13] The liquidation of the camps
YVS16.IND        1164  07-09-95  [13/13] index
ADL.102          4818  07-07-95  ADL report reveals split in Holocaust denial
                               | movement that is as hateful as their
                               | Anti-Semetic propaganda
AMERICAN.-DI    36474  07-07-95  Terror VS Truth in Canada:  An interview of
                               | Ernst Zundel by American Dissident voices
CANADA           9683  07-07-95  The Liberty Lobby and their associations with
                               | Canada
CANADA.NUM        584  07-07-95  Numbers of dead during WWII from the book
                               | "None is too many" by Irving Abella
CANADA.RIG      14148  07-07-95  Listing of Far Right groups and individuals
CHRISTIE.029     3469  07-07-95  Law body won't punish Christie from the
                               | Times-Colonist Feb 24, 1993
DENIAL.GUI       8771  07-07-95  The Revisionist Guide book
DERSHOWI.JHR     5278  07-07-95  An article on the Institute for Historical
                               | review
HCN              3767  07-07-95  Technical stuff about Cyanide gas
JTA.079          1528  07-07-95  Article from the Detriot Jewish News about
                               | the Canadian Liberty Net
JUDGEMEN.199   234917  07-07-95  The decision from the Supreme court of Canada
                               | about the Ernst Zundel affair
LAT.051         15290  07-07-95  Article from the LA times about the troubles
                               | at the Institute for Historical Review
MONDAY-M.030    27385  07-07-95  Article from Monday Magazine about racism in
                               | British Columbia and across Canada
NEWSDAY.022     22429  07-07-95  Article from Newsday about holocaust denial
NYT.122          1848  07-07-95  Usenet post on the Holocaust
POWER.062       21901  07-07-95  June 26, 1994 POWER Report. The POWER report
                               | is published by Ernst Zundel
SHALLIT.REP     14976  07-07-95  Lies in our Time by Jeffory Shallit
TC0195-2.TXT     4172  07-07-95  Article from the Colonist about free
                               | speech
TIMES-CO.079     2294  07-07-95  Article from the Colonist about Zundel
TIMES-CO.121     2667  07-07-95  Article from the Colonist about CSIS.  This
                               | is the article where Doug Christie call CSIS
                               | Lapdogs not watchdogs!
TM.051          15644  07-07-95  Article from the LA Times about the power
                               | struggle at the IHR
TORONTO-.SUN     1426  07-07-95  Toronto Sun article called "Racists clash
                               | with foes"
VANCOUVE.PRO     1127  07-07-95  Article from the Vancouver Providence about
                               | Ernst Zundel trying to get money for being
                               | persecuted by the Canadian courts
WASHINGT.069     5484  07-07-95  Holocaust Revisionist admits he is not an
                               | engineer. (Fred Leuchter)
WIESENTH.069     2634  07-07-95  Article from the Vancouver Post about Hate on
                               | the Internet.
WP.100          11619  07-07-95  Article from the Washington Post on Denying
                               | the Deniers
ZUNDEL.ERN       3204  07-07-95  I think these are quotes but I don't really
                               | know
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[11] National Alliance's FTP files                                 [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
******************************************************************************
**** ALL THE FOLLOWING FILES ARE FROM THE NATIONAL ALLIANCES FTP SITE    *****
**** YOU CAN FTP THEM AT FTP.NETCOM.COM /PUB/NA/NA                       *****
******************************************************************************

ACCIDEN.TXT     16849  06-16-95  ADV show on "is it all an Accident"
ADL.TXT         44672  06-16-95  The Anti-Defimation League drive to outlaw
                               | free speech and thought
ADLREPRT.TXT    60663  06-16-95  Armed & Dangerous: Militias take aim at the
                               | Federal Government.... An ADl fact finding
                               | report : Anti-Defimation League 1994
ADV22093.TXT    19005  06-16-95  American Dissident Voices Radio Show about 
                               | Blacks in America                            
ADV31393.TXT    18882  06-16-95  ADV Radio Show about the NEA's Anti-American
                               | Agenda threatens our nation
ADV32093.TXT    17235  06-16-95  ADV show on the fallicy of Equality
ADV41093.TXT    15680  06-16-95  ADV show on Liberalism versus Nationalism
ADV42493.TXT    18416  06-16-95  ADV show on The Racial double standard
ADV4393.TXT      5705  06-16-95  ADV show on A realistic appraisal of Malcolm
                               | X and the Black Muslims
ADV5193.TXT      4838  06-16-95  ADV show on Survivalism
ADV9310A.TXT    19186  06-16-95  ADV show on Polarized
ADV93529.TXT    18035  06-16-95  ADV show on The ADL- America's greatest
                               | enemy!
ADV9358.TXT      3006  06-16-95  ADV show on America- Treason, Betrayal and
                               | hope part 1
ADV93612.TXT    21276  06-16-95  ADV show on Delusions on the right
ADV93619.TXT    20446  06-16-95  ADV show on my Political Education
ADV9365.TXT     19147  06-16-95  ADV show on the ADL - America's greatest
                               | enemy PART 2
ADV93710.TXT    20207  06-16-95  ADV show on AIDS - a killer loose in the land
ADV93724.TXT    19914  06-16-95  ADV show on new studies cast doubt on
                               | "Holocaust" claims
ADV93814.TXT    21233  06-16-95  ADV show on "All America must know the terror
                               | that upon us"
ADV93821.TXT    19899  06-16-95  ADV show on "Treason never prospers"
ADV93828.TXT    19659  06-16-95  ADV show on the Roots of Civilization
ADV9387.TXT     21167  06-16-95  ADV show on the only way to a Better World
ADV939A.TXT     18812  06-16-95  ADV show on Lessons from Nature
ADV939B.TXT      2688  06-16-95  ADV show on with Malice aforethought
ADV939C.TXT     18392  06-16-95  ADV show on the Wisdom of Henry Ford
ADVLTRS1.TXT    17657  06-16-95  ADV show about letters from listeners
ADVTAPS.TXT      8653  06-16-95  American Dissident Voices tape list
AFF-ACTN.TXT    16128  06-16-95  Affirmative Action: An idea whose time has
                               | passed
AIDSECR.TXT     17112  06-16-95  AIDS SECRETS: What the government doesn't
                               | want you to know
AIDSTRU.TXT      7943  06-16-95  Death via a sweat, sneeze and bedbug
AM-DECL.TXT     18968  06-16-95  America since World War II
AUSCHWTZ.TXT    12160  06-16-95  The evidence of the Prussian Blue
CRY-GAME.TXT    16060  06-16-95  A review of the movie "The Crying Game"
DRESDEN.TXT     13577  06-16-95  Dresden: Call of the Blood
DST-STRM.TXT    14976  06-16-95  The lesson of Desert Storm
E-EUROPE.TXT    31360  06-16-95  Changing the Mask: The Jews, Communism and
                               | Eastern Europe
ENGLISH.TXT     18304  06-16-95  Twisted English
FILMS.TXT        2304  06-16-95  Academy Award?!
FREE-USE.TXT    17385  06-16-95  Freedom: Use it or Lose it!
FREEDMAN.TXT    62413  06-16-95  The hidden tyrany relevealed (3 shows)
GERMANY.TXT     18560  06-16-95  Why no free Speech in Germany
GREAT.TXT       16128  06-16-95  The Measure of Greatness
GUNFUTRE.TXT    36454  06-16-95  Gun Control
GUNHITLR.TXT    18301  06-16-95  Gun Control in Germany during Hitler
GUNS.TXT        20733  06-16-95  Gun Control: Not what it seems
HUD.TXT         13256  06-16-95  Freedom Under Attack
IDEAS.TXT       17046  06-16-95  ADV show on "Ideas have consequences"
IMMIGRA.TXT     17714  06-16-95  ADV show on Destructive immigration
ISRAEL.TXT      19805  06-16-95  ADV show on "Israel: Facing the facts"
J-LONDON.TXT    44032  06-16-95  The soul of Jack London
JEWS-TDY.TXT     6928  06-16-95  A dangerous Wayfaring
JEWSHWAR.TXT    37504  06-16-95  By way of Deception thou shalt do war
KAGAN.TXT        5174  06-16-95  Vengence and Race
KILLERS.TXT      7953  06-16-95  Necklaces for Witches and the Holocaust Hoax
LTRS1.TXT       29184  06-16-95  Letters from Readers to National Vanguard #1
LTRS2.TXT        6016  06-16-95  Letters Part 2
LTRS3.TXT       21632  06-16-95  Letters part 3
MCCARTHY.TXT    39845  06-16-95  The Destruction of Joe McCarthy
MESSAGE          3421  06-16-95  AMERICAN DISSIDENT VOICES RADIO SCHEDULE
                               | updated Feb 24, 1995
MINDCTRL.TXT     4168  06-16-95  Stealing freedom at the State level
ML-KING.TXT     17536  06-16-95  The Beast as a Saint: The truth about Martin
                               | Luthur King Jr.
MULTICUL.TXT    16658  06-16-95  ADV show on the joys of Multiculturalism
N-WD-ORD.TXT    48954  06-16-95  The New World Order, Free Trade and the
                               | deindustrialization of America
NAT-ALLI.TXT    52520  06-16-95  Building a New White World.... Ideology of
                               | the National Alliance
NAZI-LAW.TXT     8335  06-16-95  Is gun control a NAZI scheme?
NEWS.TXT        14720  06-16-95  News items from the Memory hole
NEWS2.TXT       20385  06-16-95  "Hate crimes" on the Rise
NSP#2.TXT       65116  06-16-95  NATIONAL SOCIALISM PRIMER updated 04/17/95
OBLIVION.TXT    19498  06-16-95  ADV show "Next stop: Oblivion"
OLD-STRY.TXT    15895  06-16-95  An old, old story
OTABLEAU.TXT     6430  06-16-95  Article from the National Vanguard
OURFALL.TXT     17739  06-16-95  ADV show on "America's Fall"
PULPFIC.TXT      7808  06-16-95  The Defender: "Pluralist" answer to the
                               | Turner Diaries
QUOTESWO.TXT    19459  06-16-95  Quotes without comment
RUMBLING.TXT    18678  06-16-95  ADV show on "Nationalist Rumblings"
STRATEGY.TXT    19555  06-16-95  The organizational stratagy
TACTICS_.FOR     9880  06-16-95  Tactics for Racial Survival
TANSER.TXT       3571  06-16-95  The TANSER study
TELMS293.TXT     2499  06-16-95  Telephone message 2/22/93
TELMS393.TXT     2213  06-16-95  Telephone message 3/29/93
TELMS493.TXT     2939  06-16-95  Telephone message 4/8/93
TELMS937.TXT     2618  06-16-95  Telephone message 8th July, 1993
TELMS939.TXT     2528  06-16-95  Telephone Message 9th Sept, 1993
THTCRIME.TXT    12672  06-16-95  "To my fellow Thought Criminals"
TYRANTS.TXT      2290  06-16-95  Telephone message about gun control
WHORULES.TXT    34048  06-16-95  Who Rules America? The alien grip on our news
                               | and entertainment media must be broken
WHTSLVS.TXT     17760  06-16-95  The truth about Slavery (White Slavery)
WW2RAPE.TXT     16843  06-16-95  ADV show on App's "Ravishing the women of
                               | conquered Europe"
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[12] Scriptures For America's FTP files                            [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
******************************************************************************
****  THE FOLLOWING FILES ARE FROM THE SCRIPTURES FOR AMERICA'S FTP SITE *****
****   SCRIPTURES FOR AMERICA'S FTP SITE IS FTP.NETCOM.COM /PUB/SF/SFA   *****
******************************************************************************
KHAZARS_.BOO    12387  08-20-95  Absolute historical proof : Jew's are not
                               | Israelites!  Research proves it!
LEUCHTER._ON    19515  08-20-95  Some comments on the Leuchter Report.   By
                               | Russel Grant from the Jubilee Newpaper.
LIFE_OFA.MER    75111  08-20-95  The Live of an American Jew in Racist,
                               | Marxist Israel.  By Jack Bernstein.
LUTHER_A.ND_     9760  08-20-95  The Jews and their lies by Martin Luther
ML-KINGS._DR    15863  08-20-95  Martin Luther King JR.  His dream our
                               | nightmare.  By Pastor Pete Peters.
RELIGION._OF    14102  08-20-95  Christianity:  Religion of the West. By
                               | Revilo P. Oliver, Ph.D
DRESDEN         35387  07-29-95  Holocaust at Dresden                       
                               | By George Fowler from the Barnes Review.
ENEMIES_.OFH    99781  07-29-95  David Irving on the Enemy's of true history
FAMOUS_J.EW_    16959  07-29-95  Famous quotations from well known Jewish
                               | people.
FAMOUS_M.EN_    89853  07-29-95  What world famous men said about the Jewish
                               | Race
FAREWELL._TO    77300  07-29-95  Farewell to Israel: Thy thorn in the middle
                               | east. By Jack Bernstein.
HIDDEN_T.YRA    78325  07-29-95  The Hidden Tyranny by Benjamin Freedman
HOLOCAUS.TXT    14950  07-29-95  Was there really a Holocaust?
                               | by Dr. E. R. Feilds editor of the Truth at
                               | Last
AMERICAN._GO     6105  07-09-95  Legal foundations of the American system of
                               | Government
AUTHORIT.Y-R    56482  07-09-95  Authority: Resistance or Obedience? Rom 13,
CONFESSI.TXT    31854  07-09-95  Inadvertant confessions of a Jew - very
                               | revealing
HITLER_C.TXT    42434  07-09-95  The Hitler cult by Col. Jack Mohr (ret)
LIFELIBE.RTY    15759  07-09-95  On the foundation of Law: Secular or
                               | biblical?
NEO-COMM.UNI    16504  07-09-95  Is Communism dead?  The guilty have just
                               | changed their names
ON_CONSP.IRA    36023  07-09-95  The unseen conspiracy of prophet, priest and
                               | king
PREACHER.S_A    65370  07-09-95  Everything about gun control that preachers
                               | won't tell you
R-U-ASLE.TXT    11785  07-09-95  Are you asleep? By Red Beckman on the
                               | American government
RU_REALL.Y_F     6487  07-09-95  Do you think you are really free?
WHO_RULE.S_A    32700  07-09-95  Details on who really rules the American
                               | media
BIBLEAND.EXT    30268  07-07-95  Bible: A handbook for Tax protestors,
                               | Extremists, etc
CALL4_CH.RIS    11519  07-07-95  What is the nature and purpose of
                               | Christianity
CHRISTIA.NIT    10364  07-07-95  Christianity Discriminates: Bible study
CHRISTIA.N_U    11328  07-07-95  Christ's advent and Christians unbelief
DATE_OF_.REV    26703  07-07-95  When was revelation written and why is it
                               | relevant
DEATHPEN.ALT    52382  07-07-95  What does the Bible say about Gays
DEVIL_DE.FIN    41043  07-07-95  The devil/satan of the bible re-examined
FACTS_AR.TXT   181272  07-07-95  The truth about Khazars and Judaism by a
                               | converted "Jew"
GENTILE_.TXT    18749  07-07-95  How does the bible define the word "Gentile"
HEIRS_OF.THE    43532  07-07-95  What happened to the 'lost' Israel? Who are
                               | they today
HOPE_FUL.FIL    84578  07-07-95  A study of the time of christs return and our
                               | hope
JESUS_DE.SCR     8255  07-07-95  3 eye-witness accounts give description of
                               | Jesus
LAZARUS_.PAR    32244  07-07-95  A new look at the parable of the rich man
                               | and Lazarus
POPE_OFP.ERV    27095  07-07-95  Scofeild: Who was the founder of
                               | Dispensationalism?
RAPTURE_.MAD    31161  07-07-95  The Rapture - Scriptural fact or man made
                               | fiction?
RUTH_THE._MO    11074  07-07-95  Was Ruth a non-Israelite because she lived in
                               | Moab
SFA-FALL.094    41181  07-07-95  Newsletter on the crime bill and the New
                               | World Order
SFA-MAY.093      7581  07-07-95  Newsletter on the seizure of church property
                               | by the Colorado government
SFA-SUMM.094    49901  07-07-95  "Thoughts on love" and other articles
SHEEP_AN.D_W    31377  07-07-95  An old parable brought up to date
VICTORY_.IN_    51881  07-07-95  Just what is Christian victory? When? How?
WHOISANI.SRA    11780  07-07-95  An introduction to the book: God's covenant
                               | people
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[13] INTERNET files (Netscape, Eudora)                             [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Filename       Size      Date    Description of File Contents
============ ========  ========  ============================================
IPHONE09.EXE   651520  07-20-95  Internet Phone.. lets you converse with
                               | people around the world.. for free!!  Works
                               | great.  Demo version is limited to 60 seconds
                               | of speach (then you can load it again and
                               | continue :)
                               | Uploaded by: Derek Wuenschirs
BCG08BA3.EXE   170469  07-09-95  BC GOPHER+ (version .08ba3) a very good
                               | Gopher cliet with snappy icons.  Lets you
                               | explore gopherspace, which is a collection of
                               | thousands of databases over the Internet
HGOPH24.ZIP    199833  07-09-95  WIN GOPHER (version 2.4) A tool used in
                               | gathering information from Gopher sites
AGENT055.ZIP   628613  07-07-95  FREE AGENT (version 0.55b) A great news
                               | reader that has OFFLINE mail reading
EUD14MAN.EXE   376851  07-07-95  The complete manual for Eudora Mail reader
                               | 1.44
EUDOR144.EXE   292942  07-07-95  Eudora (version 1.44)  A good mail reader
IP103.ZIP     1108652  07-07-95  Pronto (version 1.03) Not bad mail reader
                               | with good online help
IRC4WIN.ZIP     91070  07-07-95  IRC for Windows (version 1) International
                               | Relay chat host.  Does not support DCC
                               | commands
MIRC34.ZIP     204983  07-07-95  MIRC (version 3.4) A good IRC host that DOES
                               | support DCC commands
NX10B4-P.ZIP   212424  07-07-95  NEWS EXPRESS (version 1.0b4-p) A good news
                               | reader that supports binary files (Zip, Gif,
                               | JPEG)
SERVERS.TXT     26073  07-07-95  Big list of IRC servers
TRMPTEL.EXE     71168  07-07-95  Trumpet TELNET (version .07) A basic TELNET
                               | host that allows you to connect to other
                               | computers via a Telnet session
WFTPD195.ZIP   147612  07-07-95  FTP Daeman (version 1.95) Allows others to
                               | directly FTP to your computers hard drive
WSIRC14E.ZIP   534801  07-07-95  Win S-IRC (version 1.14E) probibly the best
                               | IRC host there is.  Does support DCC commands
                               | and has good online help
WSNWUTIL.ZIP   163824  07-07-95  WS FTP (version June-11-95) [32 BIT]         
                               | File transfer program for use only with
                               | Win-NT, Win'95, Win3.1x with the Microsoft 
                               | 32 bit extentions
WS_FTP.ZIP     121700  07-07-95  WS FTP (version June-11-95) [16 BIT]         
                               | File transfer program that allows you to
                               | download megsbytes of files from FTP sites
                               | around the world
WT_WSK.ZIP     167601  07-07-95  TRUMPET NEWS (version 1.0B4) The latest
                               | Trumpet news reader.  Easy to learn but does


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:39 PDT 1995
Article: 8698 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,alt.discrimination,alt.politics
Subject: Allfiles list part 8... Final
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:09:21 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <43u1qo$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8698 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2652 alt.politics.white-power:3628 alt.skinheads:3386 alt.discrimination:35835

                   Allfiles List from Digital Freedom BBS

All these files are availible for download from Digital Freedom BBS in
Toronto, Canada.   The number is (416) 462-3327 28.8 V.34 and (416) 465-4767
14.4 V.32, V.42bis.

These files are also availible by request via E-Mail at cpn@inforamp.net.

If you would like a large amount of these files, CD-ROM's of everyone of
these files are availible for only $50 Canadian.  ($40 American)

Write to:

                                   C.P.N
                               152 Carlton St
                                 Suite 545
                                Toronto, ON
                                  M5A 2K0
                                   CANADA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
[14] Rush Limbaugh                                                 [CMFL 
v2.00]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
RUSH0194.ZIP   545000  09-21-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts for January 1994
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0195.ZIP   490627  09-21-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts for January 1995
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0294.ZIP   515866  09-21-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts for February 1994
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RFAQ0894.ZIP    27438  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh FAQ's (Frequently Asked
                               | Questions) from the Internet August 1994
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0192.ZIP   316613  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts January 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0193.ZIP   404995  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts January 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0292.ZIP   306454  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts February 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0293.ZIP   385211  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts - February 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0392.ZIP   380118  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts March 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0393.ZIP   455381  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts - March 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0492.ZIP   260103  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts April 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0493.ZIP   395857  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts - April 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0592.ZIP   392388  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts May 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0593.ZIP   371093  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts - May 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0692.ZIP   379941  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts June 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0693.ZIP   422492  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts - June 1993
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0792.ZIP   362311  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts: July 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0892.ZIP   384229  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts Aug. 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0991.ZIP   255851  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts September 1991
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH0992.ZIP   391566  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts Sept. 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1091.ZIP   263183  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts October 1991
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1092.ZIP   430079  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts Oct. 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1191.ZIP   241228  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts November 1991
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1192.ZIP   379650  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts Nov. 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1291.ZIP   140486  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh Transcripts December 1991
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
RUSH1292.ZIP   341387  09-19-95  Rush Limbaugh program transcripts Dec. 1992
                               | Uploaded by: Glen Moore
 

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:40 PDT 1995
Article: 8699 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Fred Leuchter:  Defender of Historical Truth
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:13:13 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 355
Message-ID: <43u221$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

                        Availible from Digital Freedom BBS.
                                (416) 462-3327
				(416) 465-4767



>From  _The Journal of Historical Review_, Vol. 12, Number 4 (Winter 1992-93):


         Fred Leuchter: Courageous Defender of Historical Truth

                               Mark Weber

             (Based on the introduction of Leuchter at the
                 Eleventh IHR Conference, October 1992)



  Until early 1988, Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. -- like most Americans --
basically accepted the Holocaust extermination story.  In itself that is
not at all remarkable, except that this man also just happened to be the
foremost American expert on gassing and gas chamber technology.

  As readers of this _Journal_ know, Fred Leuchter was commissioned in
early 1988 by German-Canadian publisher Ernst Zundel to conduct a thorough
forensic investigation of the alleged wartime gassing facilities in Poland
for his defense case in the Toronto "Holocaust Trial."

  Zundel was so sure that the Holocaust gassing story would not stand up to
expert examination that he sent Leuchter to Europe at considerable expense,
completely confident that an independent investigation would confirm the
Revisionist view.

  In early 1988, Leuchter and his team carefully investigated the so-called
gas chambers at, first, the Auschwitz main camp, second, the
Auschwitz-Birkenau camp, which is supposed to have been the most terrible
Nazi extermination center, and, third, the Majdanek camp near Lublin, where
the Allies claimed at Nuremberg that a million and a half people were
killed.  As an expert witness testifying under oath in April 1988 in the
second Zundel trial, and in his published report of his on-site
investigation, Fred Leuchter explained in detail that the supposed gas
chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek could not possibly have been
used to gas people as alleged.

  Leuchter's findings demolish the core of the Holocaust legend -- the
Auschwitz gassing story.  British historian David Irving found Leuchter's
forensic investigation so compelling that, as he has publicly acknowledged,
it was a major factor in persuading him finally to reject the Holocaust
extermination story.

[Photograph captioned, "Leuchter examining remains of the alleged
extermination gas chamber in the crematory building (Krema) II in the
Auschwitz-Birkenau camp."  (Photo: Samisdat Publishers)]

  Many tens of thousands of copies of what has become known simply as the
Leuchter Report are now in circulation around the world.  It has been
published in numerous countries and languages.  Earlier this year, for
example, it appeared for the first time in Russian in a collection of
Revisionist writings published in Moscow.  More recently, it was published
in Hungarian in the August 25 issue of the Budapest intellectual journal
_Hunnia_.


  In April 1989, Leuchter returned to Europe to carry out an expert
forensic investigation of other alleged extermination gas chambers, this
time at Dachau in Bavaria, and at Mauthausen and Hartheim, near Linz in
Austria.  Accompanying him on this visit, as she had during their 1988
visit to Poland, was his wife Carolyn.  The results of this investigation
have been published as the Second Leuchter Report, which appeared in the
Fall 1990 IHR _Journal_.

  The Institute for Historical Review is proud of its cordial and
productive association with Fred Leuchter, who spoke at the IHR Conferences
in 1989, 1990 and 1992.  In his presentations at the last two conferences,
he reported on the relentless international campaign against him.

  During the last two years, unfortunately, there has been no let up in the
bigoted campaign to discredit Leuchter's work and reputation, and to
destroy his career -- all because of his courageous refusal to lie about
his professional findings.  What his enemies want, apparently, is for
Leuchter to violate his conscience, betray his profession, and to lie under
oath in a court of law, all for the sake of upholding what has become, in
essence, an article of religious belief.  It is fair to say that no
American has suffered more for his defiance of the Holocaust lobby than
Fred Leuchter.

  The most insidious (and effective) effort has been a behind-the-scenes
campaign to destroy his livelihood by pressuring state governments to stop
employing him as their execution hardware engineer.  To allow Leuchter to
continue working for the state, declared Illinois Representative Ellis
Levin (D-Chicago), "would be an affront to the Jewish community."
(_Chicago Daily Law Bulletin_, August 17, 1990.)  Sadly, these underhanded
efforts have been successful.  The Chicago _Sun-Times_ newspaper, for
example, confirmed (in August 1990) that "the state [of Illinois] cut its
ties with him over statements that Nazi gas chambers, including those at
Auschwitz, could not have been used for executing Jews."

  In spite of the clearly unfair and bigoted nature of the campaign against
him, the normally vociferous champions of civil liberty and freedom of
speech in America have, so far, anyway, been noticeably silent about this
case.


  An important propaganda weapon in this campaign has been a book published
jointly by the Klarsfeld Foundation and a group that calls itself
"Holocaust Survivors and Friends in Pursuit of Justice."  This book bears
the pretentious title: _Truth Prevails: Demolishing Holocaust Denial: The
End of 'The Leuchter Report'_.

  The most important charges made against Leuchter, which are also included
in this widely distributed book, are:

  First, that Leuchter's motive in concluding that the alleged gas chambers
were never used to kill anybody was the professional fee he received from
Zundel for his work.

  Second, that Fred Leuchter has no qualifications as an execution
equipment specialist, and

  Third, that he lied under oath in the 1988 Zundel trial.

  What are the facts?  Let's take a close look at each of these charges.

[Photograph captioned, "Fred A. Leuchter, Jr."  (Photo: Samisdat
Publishers)]


  First, Leuchter's motives in conducting his forensic investigation of the
alleged war-time gas chambers in Poland were entirely professional.  While
it is true that he was paid a standard fee by Zundel for his work, it
cannot be stressed enough that Leuchter was chosen to carry out this
investigation not because of any pre-existing views about this subject,
but solely because he was the acknowledged expert in this field.  His
political views or social attitudes were never a consideration.  (Just
imagine what Leuchter's critics would be saying if he had conducted his
forensic examination of the Polish camps on his own initiative, without
charge.)

     Before he flew to Poland to begin his investigation, Leuchter
warned Zundel that if he concluded that the alleged extermination gas
chambers were, in fact, used to kill people, or could have been so used, he
would so testify in court.  Zundel agreed to this condition.  Regardless of
his findings, Zundel would still have been obliged to pay Leuchter his fee.

  In fact, if money and comfort had been primary considerations, and if he
is as dishonorable as those who now attack him insinuate, Leuchter would
have simply pocketed his fee from Zundel, and then told the court what the
prosecution and the media wanted to hear.

  Second, Leuchter's qualifications as a technical expert and inventor are
actually quite impressive.  His adversaries never tire of repeating that his
only academic credential is a bachelor's degree in history, which he earned
at Boston University in 1964.  This has never been a secret.  What is not
so well known, though, is the full story of his expertise.

  For one thing, Leuchter did post-graduate study in celestial navigation
mechanics at the Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in
Cambridge, Massachusetts.

  Since 1965, he has worked as an engineer on projects having to do with
electrical, optical, mechanical, navigational and surveying problems.  He
holds patents in the fields of optics, navigation, encoding, geodetic
surveying and surveying instrumentation, including patents on sextants,
surveying instruments and optical instrument encoders.

  From 1965 through 1970 he was the technical director for a firm in
Boston, where he specialized in airborne, opto-electronic, and photographic
surveillance equipment.  He designed the first low-level, color,
stereo-mapping system for use in a helicopter, which has become an airborne
standard.

  In 1970, he formed an independent consulting firm.  During his period
with this firm, he designed and built the first electronic sextant and
developed a unique, light-weight, compact and inexpensive optical drum
sector encoder for use with surveying and measuring instruments.  He also
built the first electronic sextant for the US Navy.  He has worked on and
designed astro trackers utilized in the on-board guidance systems of ICBM
missiles.

  Because of his work in navigational devices he has had hands-on
experience with surveying and geodetic measuring equipment and a thorough
knowledge of map-reading and cartography.  He is trained in reading and
interpreting aerial photographs.  He designed a computerized transit for
surveying use, and several years ago he developed the first low-cost
personal telephone monitor.

  During the past 14 years, Leuchter has been a consultant to several state
governments on equipment used to execute convicted criminals, including
hardware for execution by lethal injection, electrocution, gassing and
hanging.  In the course of this work, he designed a new gas chamber for the
state of Missouri, and he designed and constructed the first lethal
injection machine for New Jersey.  Leuchter has also been a consultant on
execution procedures.  He has held a research medical license from both
state and federal governments, and has supplied the necessary drugs for use
in execution support programs.

  In 1987, he formed Fred A. Leuchter Associates, a consulting engineering
firm specializing in general consulting and the design and construction of
prototype hardware.  He has been a forensic engineer consultant, and has
testified as an expert in courts in the United States and Canada.

  (On a more personal note, Fred Leuchter is an accomplished pianist and
musician, as well as a certified small arms instructor and NRA expert
marksman.)

  More to the point, Leuchter's expertise in precisely the field of
execution hardware is a matter of public record, and has been
authoritatively and publicly confirmed.  Indeed, no one was better
qualified to carry out his investigation.  At that time, Leuchter was
recognized as the foremost American expert on the design and fabrication of
gas chambers and other hardware used to execute criminals in the United
States.  He has worked on and designed facilities used to kill condemned
criminals with hydrogen cyanide gas, the same gas supposedly used to kill
many hundreds of thousands of Jews at Auschwitz.

  Leuchter's expertise as the nation's foremost specialist of execution
hardware, including gas chambers, has been publicly confirmed.  William
Armontrout, warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary, testified on this
matter during the 1988 "Holocaust Trial" of Ernst Zundel.  As warden,
Armontrout supervised the state's execution gas chamber.  He testified
under oath that he had consulted with Leuchter on the design, maintenance
and operation of the Missouri gas chamber, and confirmed that, to the best
of his knowledge, Leuchter is the only such consultant in the United
States.

  Leuchter's expertise has also been recognized by prominent periodicals,
including _The Atlantic_ in a four-page article in its February 1990 issue.
An article in the weekly national news magazine _Insight_ of July 2, 1990,
called Leuchter, "the nation's leading expert in the mechanics of
execution."  Finally, Leuchter's expertise was acknowledged on the ABC
television news program "Prime Time Live," broadcast on May 10th, 1990, and
by _The New York Times_ in a prominently featured article in its issue of
October 13, 1990, which was accompanied by a front-page photo of Leuchter.

  No matter what the long-term outcome of the still unfolding Leuchter
affair may be, the indisputable fact will remain, that on the basis of a
careful on-site inspection, the man who is America's acknowledged foremost
expert on gas chamber technology has categorically declared under oath that
the alleged mass extermination gas chambers were never used, and never
could have been used, as execution devices.


  With regard to the third charge -- the Leuchter lied under oath in the
1988 Zundel trial -- it might first be pointed out that the laws of physics
have not been suspended for the sake of the Holocaust story.  To repeat: If
Leuchter is wrong, it should not be difficult to prove it.  And if he is
right, his work and his findings will stand the test of time, and his
courage will be vindicated.

  At the 1989 IHR Conference, Leuchter dramatically called for a neutral,
international commission of engineers, historians and scholars to go to
Auschwitz and the other camps, and to either confirm or repudiate his
findings.  Not surprisingly, those who have been trying so hard to silence
and discredit Leuchter have ignored his challenge.  Indeed, the very nature
of this insidious campaign, including the unwillingness of his adversaries
to seriously come to grips with his work, implicitly confirms the soundness
of Leuchter's findings.

  In this regard, it is highly significant that Leuchter's findings have
recently been authoritatively corroborated and confirmed:

  First, the Institute of Forensic Research in Krakow, Poland, corroborated
Leuchter's findings in a confidential September 1990 forensic report.
Although it was not meant to be made public, Revisionists were able to
obtain a copy.  An English-language translation of the complete text was
published in the Summer 1991 issue of the IHR _Journal_.  [Transcriber's
note: I transcribed that article previously, as I have likewise done with
others.]

  Second, Austrian engineer Walter Luftl explicitly endorsed Leuchter's
findings in a March 1992 report, which appears elsewhere in this issue of
the _Journal_.

  Third, German engineer Germar Rudolf, a highly qualified professional,
has thoroughly supported Leuchter's findings in an exhaustive report that
will probably be published in 1993.

  Another German engineer, Wolfgang Schuster (Dipl.Ing.), pointedly
defended the validity of Leuchter's findings against the criticisms of
French pharmacist Jean-Claude Pressac in a five-page essay published in the
German quarterly journal _Deutschland in Geschichte und Gegenwart_
(Tubingen, June 1991).

  Finally, it is worth noting that Dr. William B. Lindsey, an American
research chemist (now retired) who was employed for 33 years by the Dupont
Corporation, anticipated Leuchter's findings during testimony given in the
first Zundel trial in 1985.  Based on his own careful on-site examination
of the alleged extermination gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkeanu and
Majdanek, and on his years of experience as a chemist, Lindsey declared
under oath: "I have come to the conclusion that no one was willfully or
purposefully killed with Zyklon B [hydrogen cyanide gas] in this manner.  I
consider it absolutely impossible."  (_The Globe and Mail_, Toronto, Feb.
12, 1985, p. M3.)


  In spite of the vicious campaign against him, Leuchter has remained
defiant and confident of ultimate vindication.  As he has put it:

    I have been vilified by the caretakers of the Holocaust dogma whose
  desperate tactics prove the failure of their arguments.  My livelihood
  has been destroyed, my character has been impugned and my life turned
  upside down.  But I will not bend the knee: Not now, not tomorrow, not
  ever.  Time and reason will vindicate the Leuchter Report.

  One day, after the dogmatic passions of our era have given way to
open-mindedness on this most emotion-charged of issues, Fred Leuchter will
be admired as a most remarkable man of integrity and courage who defied
powerful forces of bigotry and closed-mindedness.  He will be remembered as
a man who, in striking a mighty blow for historical truth and
understanding, has himself made history.


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:41 PDT 1995
Article: 8700 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Schindler's List FALSIFIES HISTORY
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:14:20 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <43u242$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

  From:           dgannon@banished.com
  Subject:        "SCHINDLER'S LIST" FALSIFIES HISTORY
 
The following text is from Carlos Porter of Belgium:
____________________________________________________
Dear Sirs,
 
It might be noted that the book SCHINDLER'S LIST (an admitted work of
fiction) contains the following factual assertions which are UNTRUE:
 
CLAIM:  Zyklon becomes instantly gaseous 
 

 
CLAIM:  Zyklon served no purpose other than mass murder.  Zyklon and
crematory ovens are proof of mass murder .
 

 
CLAIM:  Crematory ovens burn corpses in a few minutes 
 

 
CLAIM:  Corpses can be burnt in pyres by dousing them with gasoline 
 

 
CLAIM:  Human ashes are so light in weight that they float through the air,
like pollution 
 

 
CLAIM:  Kurt Gerstein is taken seriously .
 

 
CLAIM:  The "human hair booties for U-boat crews" (Document USSR 511) are
taken seriously 
 

 
CLAIM:  There was no way to combat typhus except by boiling clothing <260>.
Oskar Schindler was the only person to steam clothing, providing the only
preventive measure against typhus .
 

 
The book also makes the following factual admissions, all TRUE:
 
TRUE:  Most Holocaust "proofs" are of Polish or Soviet communist origin
<342, 417, 520>.
 
TRUE:  Many Jews are Marxists who forged thousands of German documents,
fabricating German stamps by the hundreds <182, 251, 285, 458, 459, 460,
474>.
 
TRUE:  Concentration camp inmates died of epidemic disease including scarlet
fever, typhoid, dysentery, and typhus <353, 421, 445, 449>.
 
TRUE:  Auschwitz was a swamp, full of mud, snow, and ice   (forgetting to tell us that the funeral pyres were in holes in
the ground, according to Document USSR-8, a Soviet "War Crimes Report" which
is our principal source of information).
 
TRUE:  All concentration camps were industrial installations with huge
factories <327, 413, 421>.  All camps contained hospitals <439>.
 
TRUE:  There was a children's camp at Auschwitz <520>.  Inmate labour was
required for industrial purposes .
 
Obviously, if only the "unfit" were gassed , there was no attempt to exterminate the Jewish people "as
a whole".
 
                               Faithfully,
 
                       [signed] Carlos W. Porter
 
                          FAX:  (087) 77 46 09
                          Tel:  (087) 77 36 55
 
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:42 PDT 1995
Article: 8701 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Review of the Leuchter Report by the JUBILEE Newspaper
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:15:07 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 412
Message-ID: <43u25l$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

----------------------------------------

The "LEUCHTER REPORT" 
By Russell Gant 
March/April 1990 Issue 
The JUBILEE Newspaper
P.O. Box 310, Midpines, California 95345
(209) 742-NEWS

In 1988 at a trial in Canada, a scientific report was made a matter 
of public record.  This report should literally have changed the 
world. Instead, it is virtually unknown.  What is in this report that 
is of such importance? Irrefutable scientific evidence that the 
execution gas chambers in Nazi Germany did not exists.

     Fred A. Leuchter  was put on the road to his momentous 
discovery when he was asked to act as an expert witness on gas 
chambers at the trial of Ernst Zundel in Canada.  Zundel was on 
trial for the "hate crime" of publishing books that prove the 
"Holocaust" is nothing but a myth at best, or a 'hate crime' of 
another stripe at worst.

        Here are the facts that are being suppressed:

        Fred A. Leuchter, a 47 year old engineer, is America's leading 
expert in the design and fabrication of execution gas chambers.  
He earned his B.A. degree at Boston University in 1964, and did 
postgraduate work at Harvard Smithsonian Astrophysical 
Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts. For the past 9 years he 
has worked with most of the states having capital punishment as a 
consultant, designer and manufacturer of electrocution systems, 
lethal injection equipment, gallows and gas chamber hardware.  He 
learned the standard history of World War II and the Holocaust in 
elementary school and college.  He never saw any reason to 
question the basic truth of the history he had been taught.

        Specifically, he was asked to perform a forensic analysis of 
the gas chambers located in Poland, which were said to have been 
used by the Nazis to kill millions of civilians.  His job would be to 
testify about his findings in court-no matter what those findings 
were.

        Forensics is the scientific analysis of physical evidence, and 
is practiced by every modern police force in the world.  This 
science is being used more and more by modern historians, 
particularly in efforts to uncover hoaxes.  One recent example is 
the analysis that proved the Shroud of Turan was not as old as had 
been claimed.

        Mr. Leuchter's expertise in engineering and gas chamber 
operation and construction made him uniquely qualified for this 
assignment.  The methodology he employed is his subsequent 
analysis was up to any professional standards and exceeded that 
of many police crime labs.  He was recognized by the Canadian 
court as an expert witness.

        In order to gather evidence, Mr. Leuchter had to travel to 
Poland. His visit was not officially sanctioned and would have 
been severely frowned upon had the government (ours and theirs) 
known his true purpose.  In the event that he and his team were 
discovered they carried maps and made plans for a clandestine 
escape from behind the Iron Curtain.  He had tools in the lining of
his valise and brought along gifts to bribe museum officials in 
order to obtain documents from the official Archives.

        His job in Poland was: on-site inspection of the alleged gas 
chamber and crematory facilities; collect physical samples for 
chemical analysis; and comparing the existing structures and 
original construction plans with what is known about the actual 
design and manufacture of gas chambers.  He also had to 
determine the purpose and use of Zyklon B, the alleged execution 
gas, and its usefulness as such.

        According to Mr. Leuchter's findings, supported by 
documentary evidence, Zyklon B was a commonly used fumigant 
during the period in question. It was used for pest and vermin 
control in order to limit the spread of plague and typhus carried by 
rats, fleas, and lice.  It is an undisputed fact that the clothing of all 
incoming camp inmates was disinfected with Zyklon B.  There 
were specially built chambers for this purpose.

        It is important to note that these chambers were manufactured 
in Germany, before the war, and they followed modern (at that 
time) design and operation standards.  It is also important to note 
that it has never been alleged that these chambers were ever used 
for anything other than their stated purpose: fumigating clothing.

        Zyklon B is a very dangerous chemical and it is deadly.  It is 
prepared in pellets which, when exposed to heated air, release 
hydrocyanic acid (HCN) in gas form.  HCN is also used in 
execution gas chambers; the only difference being in the way it is 
released.  Zyklon B is about the least efficient and effective 
method that could be devised.

        Mere fumigation of an area, such as a building, with Zyklon 
B for pest control requires much less of the chemical than would 
be needed to kill large numbers of people.  In order to safely 
handle even the amount used for fumigation, elaborate precautions 
must be observed.

        In the gassing stories it is alleged that within minutes after 
the inmates died the doors to the chamber would be thrown open.  
Either guards or inmates would immediately begin removing 
bodies.  In some of the stories the guards were smoking cigarettes 
while clearing out the chambers.

        According to minimal standards for safety, when using only 
enough Zyklon B for pest control, the building must be ventilated 
for 10 hours before humans could be allowed inside.  If it was 
absolutely necessary that someone enter earlier than that, they had 
to wear a complete chemical suit that left no exposed skin, and a 
gas mask.  Gas masks are not considered safe and may never be 
used for more than 10 minutes at a time.

        In execution gas chambers the body of the executee must be 
washed with ammonia before it can be handled to avoid poisoning.  
HCN gas is highly explosive.  Thus, the picture of unprotected 
inmates and guards rushing in before the gas has even really 
begun to disperse, some even lighting cigarettes, and hauling off 
naked bodies covered with poison is totally ridiculous.

        Some of the buildings in question were alleged to have been 
built specifically for use as gas chambers; others were said to have 
been converted to that purpose.  Gas chamber construction has 
been of basically the same design since the first one was built in 
Arizona in 1920.  Only some of the technical details have been 
improved.

        The dangers involved in gas chamber execution were well 
known before WW II, as were the necessary precautions.  For 
safe operation gas chambers must be air tight, with gasketed doors 
and windows.  Brick or mortar walls must be sealed with pitch, tar, 
or an epoxy paint to prevent the porous material from absorbing 
the poison.

        The electrical system, including lights, must be of explosion-
proof construction.  The chamber must have a special air intake 
and exhaust system, including a 40 foot vent stack to safely 
release the gas.  Without such a height stack, the lethal 
concentration of gas would present a danger to everyone in the 
surrounding area before the air could dilute it.

        For the safety of the operators in the event of a leak the 
special emergency system should include gas detectors, warning 
lights, horns, and bells, emergency breathing apparatus, and 
special HCN first aid kits.  Due to the very complicated design 
problems (those listed only scratch the surface), a mistake in any 
area can, and very likely will, cause death or injury to anyone 
nearby.


Part Two  -  By Russell Gant  -  May/June Issue 1990 of the 
JUBILEE

     Last JUBILEE we introduced Fred A. Leuchter, a 47-year-old 
engineer, and America's leading expert in the design and 
fabrication of execution gas chambers.  He was asked to perform 
a forensic analysis of the gas chambers located in Poland, which 
were said to have been used by the Nazis to kill millions of 
civilians.  He served as an expert witness on gas chambers in the 
1988 trial of Ernst Zundel in Canada.  Zundel was on trial for the 
"hate crime" of TEACHING that the "Holocaust" is nothing but a 
myth at best...

     Leuchter's on-site inspection of Poland's "gas chambers" 
revealed the following faults in design, fabrication, and operation 
at Auschwitz and Birkenau which made it impossible for them to 
be gas chambers:

    No provision for gasketed windows, doors, or vents.

    Walls not sealed to prevent absorption or leakage of gas.  
Exposed mortar and brick construction would have accumulated 
HCN and thus been a danger to human life for several years.  
Almost everyone is familiar with photos of U.S. Congressmen 
who were inspecting the inside of the alleged gas chambers within 
days of the camps being liberated.

    Adjacent crematories present high potential for explosion.

    "Gas chamber" at Crematory #1 has floor drains that connect 
to the main sewer line of the camp, which would allow gas into 
every building in the facility.

    No exhaust system.  Thus it would take longer than the 
prescribed 10 hours to ventilate, even when fumigated for pest 
control.

    No system for introducing or heating Zyklon B.

    Chambers are too small to physically hold the numbers alleged 
to have been gassed in each session.

    Doors all open inward.  According to "Holocaust historians" 
people were packed into the chambers until there was barely room 
to breath.  In some stories when the gas was released there would 
be a mad crush at the doors as desperate people tried to escape.  
How did they get the doors open despite the weight of all those 
dead bodies?

    With the room packed with people, the Zyklon B would not 
evaporate since there would be no possibility of any circulation.  If 
it did somehow evaporate the HCN gas could not have circulated 
throughout the room in the short time alleged for the gassing to 
take place.

    None of the buildings were designed even remotely in 
accordance with standards for delousing facilities which were in 
safe and effective use for years in Germany, and which were 
designed and manufactured by German films. Nor were they in 
accordance with well known American execution gas chamber 
design. Though the Nazis were highly efficient and 
technologically advanced in all other areas of their war efforts, in 
this case- the supposed "main event" - they seem to have left those 
traits behind.

And at Majdanek:
    "Experimental gas chamber" was "rebuilt" after the war.  The 
only parts of the building that existed prior to the rebuilding were 
the cremation ovens, according to forensic evidence.

    The building was allegedly reconstructed from original plans, 
but those plans do not exist today.  Other plans for camp 
buildings are available.

    Chamber is too small to accommodate the alleged number of 
victims.

    The design of the chamber could not have contained the gas, 
which would have escaped and reached the ovens, and, after killing 
the operators, caused an explosion.

    The type of construction materials, poured concrete, is radically 
different from the other buildings at the facility.

    The building does not follow even minimal gas chamber 
design.

     Bear in mind that these facts are based on scientific evidence 
ascertained by an impartial professional.

     Samples were taken from the walls of the alleged gas chambers 
and brought back to the U.S. for chemical analysis.  There were 
blue stains on the walls which Mr. Leuchter determined indicated 
that Zyklon B had probably been used in the rooms for some 
purpose.  The question to be answered was whether or not the 
amount of gas used was consistent with the gas chamber 
allegations.

     In order to make such a determination after all these years it 
was necessary to have something to compare the samples with.  A 
"control sample."  Such a sample was taken from one of the 
fumigation facilities which was used to disinfect clothing during 
the same period.  The important point here is that the volume of 
gas used for executions would have been much greater than for 
fumigations.  Thus, analysis should show a much higher level of 
cyanide residue from the alleged gas chambers than from the 
fumigation facility.

     In fact, just the opposite occurred.  When tested at an 
independent laboratory, most of the samples were negative, that is, 
there was not enough cyanide residue to even be detected.  Those 
samples that tested positive were just at the detection level, which 
proves there was some gas exposure, but comparatively little.  In 
the case of the control sample from the fumigation chamber an 
enormous amount of residue was detected.  To illustrate the 
difference a graph was included in the report.  On the graph, the 
sample with the highest positive result was depicted with a bar 
about 1/16th of an inch tall.  In contrast, the control sample was 
depicted with a bar OVER 9 1/2 INCHES HIGH.  It is therefore 
proved beyond question that nothing near the amount of gas 
alleged could have actually been used in the so-called "gas 
chambers."

     Another area investigated by Mr. Leuchter was the allegation 
that many bodies were disposed of by burning them in pits.  This 
allegation is necessary in the Holocaust story because there is no 
way the number of bodies claimed could have been disposed of in 
the allotted time.  The pit locations were ascertained by using 
official museum maps upon which they were clearly marked. 
According to "witnesses" and official historians these pits were 
almost 20 ft deep.  What was obvious almost from the moment of 
the investigative team's arrival was that Birkenau, where the pits 
were supposed to have been used, was built on a swamp.  What 
was quickly discovered is that the water table is within 2 (two) feet 
of the ground surface in ALL of the pit locations.  It is not 
possible to burn corpses under water - no matter how much fuel is 
poured on them.

     Considering the size of the alleged gas chambers, and the 
technical capabilities and limitations of the gas, the maximum 
usage rate of the chambers (a very generous estimate) would be 
1639 persons per week.  If these actually were execution gas 
chambers it would have taken 68 years to kill the alleged number 
of victims.

     If the crematories were operating 24 hours a day, 7 days a 
week, never stopping for cleaning or repairs, based on the size and 
number of crematories, it would take 35 years to burn all those 
victims.

     Since the gassing didn't start until 1942, the horrors of the Nazi 
extermination program, this most terrible deed in history, will end 
in the year 2010.  If we hurry we may stop them yet, and rescue 
European Jewry.

     What you have read here just briefly touches on the evidence 
contained in the Leuchter Report.  The actual report contains areas 
of investigation not mentioned here, along with as much technical 
information and documentation as anyone could ask for.  How 
compelling is the evidence? David Irving is a world renowned 
historian and biographer.  His one failing in this regard is that, like 
most modern historians, he uncritically accepted the "Holocaust" 
without examining the evidence closely.  Author of the best-selling 
and highly acclaimed "Churchill's War" along with numerous 
other works on W.W.II, he is the one who exposed the infamous 
"Hitler Diaries" as fakes in 1983.  After the critical examination of 
the evidence contained in the Leuchter Report,  Mr. Irving came to 
the only possible conclusion: the stories of the mass gassing of 
humans at Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Majdanek are lies.  


If you would be interested in obtain a copy of the 
'Leuchter Report' write:  
SAMISDAT PUBLICATIONS, 
206 Carlton St, 
Toronto, Ontario, Canada, 
M5A 2L1  
Tel: (416) 922-9850

The First Leuchter Report - 
The condensed version.  Investigation of the alleged gas chambers 
in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek in Poland, by U.S. gas 
chamber expert, Fred Leuchter.  Three statistical charts, eleven 
maps, and drawings of gas chambers.  5 photos, 34 pages,  $10.00

The Complete Leuchter Report (Court Document, 1988 Trial) - 
The 196 page report, as submitted to the Court in Canada, 
complete with drawings of the carefully measured alleged gas 
chambers, in Auschwitz, Birkenau and Majdanek.  Includes test 
results and lab reports of forensic tests done on over thirty 
samples gathered from the floors, ceilings, walls and drains, of 
these alleged killing facilities.  British historian, David Irving, 
called this report "a shattering document."  He described it's 
preparation by the defense team of Ernst Zundel as a "stroke of 
genuis."  He said, "this document will in time effect the compete 
re-writing of 20th century history."  11 maps and plans of gas 
chambers, 35 pages of lab results, 12 photos, and 11 charts and 
detailed descriptions of how Zyclon B is used and works.  $50.00

The Second Leuchter Report -
An investigation of the alleged gas chamber facilities at Dachau, 
Mauthausen and Hartheim.  This profusely illustrated 96 page 
report with never-before seen photos, rare documents and eight 
drawing plans of gas chambers and one map of the locations of 
"death camps."  The booklet contains a special section of a U.S. 
war crime, the murder of 560 German guards, hospital nurses, 
patients and doctors of the military hospital at Dachau.  $12.00

The Third Leuchter Report:  
A Technical Report on the Execution Gas Chamber -  
The Third Leuchter Report is an investigation of 
the Execution Gas Chamber in Mississippi State Penitentiary at 
Parchman, Mississippi.  The purpose of this investigation 
commissioned by Ernst Zundel and carried out by Fred Leuchter 
on November 15, 1988 is to verbally and graphically demonstrate 
the design, construction, and operational requirements of an 
execution gas chamber which utilizes hydrogen cyanide (Zyclon 
B) gas.  Of particular interest is the fact that this gas chamber was 
built in the early 1950's by the Eaton Metal Products Company of 
Denver, Colorado, based on a design first developed and used in 
the early 1920's for the Arizona Gas Chamber.  35 photos of the 
Mississippi Gas chamber and comparison photos of the alleged 
Auschwitz "gas chamber" and 4 diagrams.  70 pages.  $12.00

The Fourth Leuchter Report:  
An Engineering Evalutation of Jean-Claude Pressac's Book 
"Auschwitz:  Techniques and Operation of the Gas Chambers" -
Fred Leuchter evaluates this highly touted book by 
Exterminationists which is supposedly to prove beyond a shadow 
of a doubt, the existence of alleged "gas chambers" at Auschwitz 
and Birkenau.  The conclusion reached by Fred Leuchter is that 
the book by Jean-Claude Pressac is a blatent attempt at furthering 
Exterminationist propaganda by a well-meaning, but incompetent 
author who ignores the fundamental laws of physics because he is 
so blinded by his belief that it must be true.  When it fact 
according to Fred Leuchter, his book proves the contrary, that 
there were no Execution Gas Chambers in Auschwitz or Birkenau.  
30 photos, 3 maps, 2 drawing and 1 chart.  54 pages.  $10.00


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:42 PDT 1995
Article: 8702 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism
Subject: American Dissedent Vioces Radio Show Schedule
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:18:22 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <43u2bk$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3629 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2653 alt.revisionism:8702

====================================================================
AMERICAN DISSIDENT VOICES SCHEDULE   Updated 3d April, 1995
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The only truly uncensored patriotic radio program in America,
is now heard worldwide on shortwave, on satellite, and on AM
and FM radio in most of North America.
WORLDWIDE ON SHORTWAVE:
 
Saturday 11:30am Central Time...............15420 kHz via WRNO
Saturday  8:00pm Central Time................7355 kHz via WRNO
Sunday    9:00am Central Time...............15715 kHz via WINB
Sunday    8:00pm Central Time...............11950 kHz via WINB
(WINB is heard best in the Gulf South and West of the Miss-
issippi, while WRNO is heard best everywhere but the Gulf South
and southern California. Both shortwave stations can be heard
in Europe and much of the rest of the world.)
VIA SATELLITE TO ALL OF NORTH AMERICA
Wednesday 7:00pm Central Time...............C1, channel 15,
                                            7.56 MHz audio
Sunday 9:00am and 8:00pm Central Time.......Galaxy 3,
                                            channel 11,
                                            6.2 MHz audio
MIDWEST AND GULF SOUTH USA
>from  the Gulf of Mexico to the Dakotas and Minnesota, plus
parts of south central Canada via KAAY, Little Rock, Arkansas:
Friday night/Saturday morning
          1:00am Central Time.......1090 on your AM dial
Saturday night
          11:30pm Central Time......1090 on your AM dial
UPPER MIDWEST AND NORTHERN MOUNTAIN USA
>from  Minnesota and Iowa west to Colorado and Montana, plus
a large part of western Canada via KXEL, Waterloo, Iowa:
Mon-Fri   9:30pm Central Time.......1540 on your AM dial
LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS AREA
(these stations can be heard in most of Arkansas)
via KMTL, Little Rock:
Saturday 10:00am.....................760 on your AM dial
via KAAY, Little Rock:
Friday night/Saturday morning
          1:00am....................1090 on your AM dial
Saturday  11:30pm...................1090 on your AM dial
WICHITA FALLS, TEXAS AREA
via KSEY AM-FM, Seymour:
Saturday 8:30am.....................94.3 on your FM dial
Saturday 10:00am....................1230 on your AM dial
HOUSTON, TEXAS AREA
via KGOL, Houston:
Saturday 5:30pm.....................1180 on your AM dial
HUNTSVILLE / DECATUR, ALABAMA AREAS
via WAJF and WYAM, Decatur/Hartselle:
Wednesday 9:00am....................1490 on your AM dial
Wednesday 9:00am.....................860 on your AM dial
Wednesday 9:00am(after mid-'95)......890 on your AM dial
TAMPA, FLORIDA AREA
via WTIS, St. Petersburg:
Saturday 11:30am....................1110 on your AM dial
For further information, write to Kevin Strom at National Vanguard
Books, Department R, PO Box 90, Hillsboro WV 24946 or
via Compuserve ID 73323,603
Internet address 73323.603@compuserve.com
Telephone VOICE MAIL 304-653-4600, FAX 304-653-4690.

*within* the borders of a state.  In this,
race or nationality play no role whatever.  A Somalian, who
formerly lived in Somalia and now lives in Canada, gives birth to
a "Canadian citizen" in the person of his child.  Likewise every
Peruvian or Pakistani, Angolan or Vietnamese child can be
declared a Canadian citizen with no further ado.
     Aside from becoming a citizen through birth, there is the
possibility of naturalization later.  It is connected with
certain requirements; for example, that the candidate in question
is if possible no burglar or drug-pusher; that he furthermore be
politically unobjectionable, in other words, a harmless political
idiot; that finally he should not become a burden to the country
which grants him citizenship.  In this materialistic age this
means a financial burden.  Yes, it is even considered a desirable
recommendation if he is presumably a good future taxpayer, to
hasten the acquisition of present-day citizenship.
     Racial reservations play no role whatsoever in this.
     The whole process of acquiring citizenship takes place not
far differently than admission into an auto-club.  The man makes
his application, it is examined and passed upon, and one day he
receives a note informing him that he has become a citizen, and
even the form of this is cute and kittenish.  The former Kalahari
Bushman in question is informed:  "You have hereby become a
Canadian!"
     This magic trick is performed by a state official.  What the
heavens could not accomplish, such an official magician has
accomplished in the twinkling of an eye.  A simple dab of the pen
and a turban-wearing Sikh has suddenly become a regular
"Canadian."
     But not only do they not concern themselves about the race
of such a new citizen; they do not even pay any attention to his
physical health.  Such a fellow may be as riddled with AIDS as he
likes, for he is nevertheless welcome as a refugee "on
humanitarian grounds", provided that he does not, as above
stated, represent a financial burden and a political danger.
     And so every year these formations, called states, take into
themselves poison elements which they can scarcely ever overcome.
     The citizen himself is only distinguished from the foreigner
by the fact that the road to public office is open to him, that
he may have to do military service, and that to make up for this
he can actively and passively participate in elections.  By and
large this is *all*.  For the protection of personal rights and
of personal freedoms is equally enjoyed by foreigners, sometimes
more so (with special agencies and extra government bureaus); in
any case, this applies in our present country.


THE SOLUTION:

     I know that people do not like to hear all this; but
anything more thoughtless, more hare-brained than our present-day
citizenship laws scarcely exists.  There are today states in
which at least weak beginnings toward a better conception are
noticeable.  Of course, it is not our "tolerant" Canada, but
France and Germany, in which an effort is made to consult reason
at least partially.  By refusing immigration on principle to
elements in poor health, by simply excluding certain races from
naturalization, they profess in slow beginnings a view which is
peculiar to the nationalist state concept.
     The NATIONALIST STATE divides its inhabitants into three
classes; citizens, subjects, and foreigners.
     On principle only the status of SUBJECT is acquired by
birth.  The status of subject does not confer the right to hold
public office, nor to carry on political activity in the form of
active or passive participation in elections.  As a matter of
principle, the race and nationality of every subject must be
determined.  If the subject does not want to live as a subject,
he is free at any time to renounce his status of subject and
become a citizen in the country whose nationality corresponds to
his own [his REAL country].
     The FOREIGNER is distinguished from the subject only by the
fact that he is a subject of a foreign state.
     The young subject of Canadian nationality is obligated to
undergo the schooling prescribed for every Canadian.  He thus
submits to education to make him conscious of CANADA'S history
and to make him patriotic to this country (and no other).  Nor
should his physical education be neglected; for he is of no use
to the country if he is weak or sickly.  After having
accomplished a truly Canadian education, the RIGHT OF CITIZENSHIP
is solemnly bestowed on the irreproachable, healthy young man. 
It is the most precious document for his whole life on earth. 
With it he enters upon all the rights of citizen and partakes of
all his advantages.  For the state must make a sharp distinction
between those who, as native sons, are the cause and bearer of
its existence and its greatness, and those who only take up
residence within a state, as "earning" elements, profiting
economically from the country without being an actual part of it.
   The bestowal of the CERTIFICATE OF CITIZENSHIP must be
associated with a solemn oath to the national community and the
state.  In this document there must lie a common bond which
bridges all other gaps.  It must be a greater honour to be a
street-cleaner and citizen of this country than a king in a
foreign state.
     The citizen is privileged as against the foreigner.  He is
the lord of the country.  But this higher dignity also obligates.

The man without honour or character, the common criminal, the
traitor to the nation, etc., can at any time be divested of this
honour.  He thus again becomes a subject [and loses his vote].




--adapted and paraphrased from Chapter III, "Subjects and
Citizens", from Book II of MEIN KAMPF by Adolf Hitler, re-worked
only slightly for the modern Canadian context.  Lest your mind
automatically reject the words of Hitler out of some political
reflexive habit, remember that he witnessed the decline and fall
of another multi-cultural state, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, so
he knows what he's taking about...


From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:47 PDT 1995
Article: 8707 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Blowing away the Homosexual Myth!
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:25:23 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 190
Message-ID: <43u2oq$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3634 alt.revisionism:8707 alt.skinheads:3391 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2658




                  Copyright 1993 The New York Times Company
                               The New York Times

                 April  15, 1993, Thursday, Late Edition - Final

SECTION: Section A; Page 1; Column 1; National Desk

LENGTH: 986 words

HEADLINE:  Sex Survey  of American Men Finds 1% Are Gay

BYLINE: By FELICITY BARRINGER

 BODY:
   A new national study on male sexual behavior, the most thorough 
published since the Kinsey report more than four decades ago, 
shows that about 2 percent of the men surveyed had engaged in 
homosexual sex and that 1 percent considered themselves 
exclusively homosexual.

   The figures on homosexuality in the study, released yesterday by 
the Alan Guttmacher Institute, are significantly lower than the 10 
percent figure that was published in the Kinsey report in 1948 and 
that then became part of the conventional wisdom.

    But the new findings are in line with a series of surveys of sexual
practices done in each of the last four years by researchers at the 
University of Chicago, and with recently published reports from 
Britain, France and Denmark, said Tom W. Smith, who directs the 
General Social Survey at the University of Chicago.

   The new survey also reported that about 23 percent of the 3,321 
men surveyed, all between the ages of 20 and 39, said they had had 
intercourse with 20 or more partners in their lifetimes, with 35 
percent of black men reporting that many partners and 22 percent 
of white men.

Statistics on Partners

    The average number of sexual partners was 7.3 -- 6.6 for white 
men, 10.2 for black men. On average, black men became sexually 
active at the age of 15, white men at the age of 17.

   The study also found that three-quarters of the men surveyed had 
engaged in oral sex and 20 percent had engaged in anal sex.

   The study, financed by a $1.8 million grant from the National 
Institute of Child Health and Human Development, was based on 
face-to-face interviews in which the subjects were guaranteed 
anonymity. It was designed to provide information on which 
segments of the population might be at increased risk of
contracting AIDS or receiving or transmitting the H.I.V. virus. It 
was conducted by researchers at the Battelle Human Affairs 
Research Center in Seattle.

   But the study, like the work at the University of Chicago, also 
presents new data about one of the least-researched areas of human 
activity; four years ago, under attack from conservatives in 
Congress, the Bush Administration canceled plans for a 
comprehensive survey of sexual practices.

   Researchers in the field acknowledge that it is difficult to judge 
precisely how reliable the data are.

Do People Lie ion Surveys?

    "The big question mark over every survey like this is, Are people 
telling the truth?" said Jacqueline Darroch Forrest, director of 
research for the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization 
focusing on sexual behavior and contraception. The institute 
published the survey in the most recent issue of its journal, Family 
Planning Perspectives.

   But more and more surveys, both in the United States and abroad, 
have had similar results, she said.

   In a Government-supported survey of 20,055 people aged 18 to 69 
in France in 1991 and 1992, French men reported an average of 11 
sexual partners; French women reported an average of 3, the 
Guttmacher Institute said. About 4 percent of French men said they 
had engaged in homosexual intercourse at least once in
their lifetimes, and 1.4 percent said they had had homosexual 
intercourse in the previous four years.

Problem of Definitions

    David Eng, a spokesman for the New-York based Gay Men's 
Health Crisis, said he could not comment on the new figures 
without seeing the report, but he noted, "Sexuality is much, much 
more than just sexual behavior.

   "That's part of the problem in the current controversies, like the 
issue of gays in the military. Everything is defined by people's 
sexual behavior. That's not the only thing we need to look at."

   Dr. Forrest of the Guttmacher Institute agreed, saying, "We 
definitely should look at sexuality as something more than what we 
do in bed."
 
   The unexpectedly low rate of male homosexual activity found by 
the survey, she said, "is a surprise, but it is in line with what we're 
seeing" in other surveys.

   The survey also reported these findings:

   *Men aged 20 to 39, a range selected because men at those ages 
are at greatest risk of H.I.V. infection, had vaginal intercourse on 
average about once a week.

   *Black men, men under 24 and men who do not live with their 
regular sex partners were much more likely to use condoms, as 
were men who had finished high school. The highest percentage of 
condom users were men aged 20 to 24; of this group, 73 percent 
said they regularly used condoms. Over all, 51 percent of the
men surveyed said they usually used condoms; this figure included 
61 percent of black men and 50 percent of white men.

   *When the men were grouped by their marital status, those who 
were living with their partners but were not married to them were 
more likely to have had more sex partners, to have performed or 
received oral sex and to have had anal intercourse than married 
men.

   *Black men were far less likely to have engaged in oral sex than 
white men; 43 percent of black men reported performing oral sex 
while 62 percent reported receiving oral sex. Among white men, 79 
percent reported performing oral sex while 81 percent reported 
receiving oral sex.

   *The variety of sexual activity increased with the age of the men 
involved and with their education levels.

   *Condom use is higher among men who have had anal sex, who 
have multiple partners or who are bisexual or homosexual.

   The researchers said the figures on reported homosexual activity 
in the new American study had a margin of sampling error of less 
than one percentage point. That means that the number of men 
who reported that they had engaged in oral or anal sex with other 
men during the previous decade could be as low as 1.8 percent and 
as high as 2.8 percent. The percentage of men reporting exclusively
homosexual activity in the previous year could be as low as seven-
tenths of 1 percent and as high as 1.5 percent, said John O. G. Billy, 
a Battelle researcher.

GRAPHIC: Chart: "The Things Men Do" shows the percentage of 
men who have had sexual intercourse, and their number of 
partners ever. (Source: Alan Guttmacher Institute) (pg. A18)

SUBJECT: HOMOSEXUALITY; PUBLIC OPINION; RESEARCH

ORGANIZATION: GUTTMACHER, ALAN, INSTITUTE; 
UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO; NATIONAL
INSTITUTE OF CHILD HEALTH AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT

NAME: BARRINGER, FELICITY

GEOGRAPHIC: UNITED STATES

ORG:  ALAN GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE;



 
From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:48 PDT 1995
Article: 8708 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Subject: Letter from C-FAR about Harnicks "Hate" legislation
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:27:09 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <43u2s3$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3635 alt.revisionism:8708 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2659 alt.skinheads:3392


CAFE
Canadian Association for Free Expression Inc.
P.O. Box 332, Station "B" 
Etobicoke, Ontario 
M9W 5L3
Phone: (905)-897-7221   FAX: (905)-277-3914


September 13, 1995

Hon. Mike Harris, Premier of Ontario,
Room 281, Legislative Building,
Queen's Park,
Toronto, Ontario 
M7A 1A1


Dear Premier Harris:

        We hope that the Toronto Star (September 13, 1995) report of
Attorney General Charles Harnick's speech, September 12, to the Canadian
Jewish Congress is inaccurate.

        However, if the following statements are true, we are bitterly
disappointed:

        "Membership in any hate group should in itself be a crime. ...
Charles Harnick said the Ontario government is pushing Ottawa to beef
up Canada's anti-hate laws ... by eliminating certain legal defences to
hate-related charges (like) ... eliminating the defence of truth for
those charged with hate crimes."

        Taking the first proposal -- making membership in a hate group
in itself a crime -- you are essentially scrapping the constitutional
protection of freedom of association: "Everyone has the following
fundamental freedoms: .... freedom of peaceful assembly and of
association." [Section 2(c)] In a country where even mere membership in
essentially criminal groups like the Mafia and biker gangs is not
illegal,  Harnick now wants to criminalize membership in groups with
politically incorrect opinion.  Make no mistake, that's what will happen.
The term "hate" is casually tossed around by the politically correct to
mean any opinion they disagree with or cannot refute.  For instance, in
the recent battle to pass Bill C-41 -- the "hate crimes" sentencing law
-- Liberals MPs justified their support of this measure which will set
up two classes of victims -- privileged minorities and the rest of us --
by arguing that there are 40 "hate groups" active in Canada.  When
pressed for names, they included the Christian fundamentalist Christian
Heritage Party, the pro-development Canadian Development Institute, and
the separatist Western Canada Concept.

        Eliminating the truth defence to charges under Section 319 of
the Criminal Code -- the already onerous and restrictive "hate law" --
would be an even greater legal atrocity.  How can an opinion be "hate",
if it's true?  In fact, what the various minority censors really want is
immunity from all critical comments -- true or otherwise.  We might
remind you that during the 1994 debate on same-sex benefits in Ontario,
the militant homosexual lobby regularly denounced opponents of these
benefits, including members of your own party as "hatemongers".  The
measures Harnick supports would also clearly violate the free speech
guarantees of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms; to wit, "Everyone has
the following fundamental freedoms: (b) freedom of thought, belief,
opinion and expression." [Section 2(b)]

        We might remind you that, in our letter of June 13, 1995, 
we expressed concern about the then-rumoured appointment of Harnick as
Attorney-General.  We called attention to his poor judgment in the
ill-fated restrictive and repressive proposals in his private member's
bill Bill 56.  It would appear that our concerns about his anti-free
speech stand and bad judgment were well taken.

        We urge you to disown Harnick's position and oppose any
strengthening of the "hate laws" -- that is, further repression -- and
let open debate and freedom of discussion reign.  Furthermore, Harnick
has shown such a repressive bent and so little respect for diversity of
opinion, that we urge you to fire him and replace him with someone who
has read and respects the spirit of the free speech provisions of the
Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  Truly, that would be the common sense
approach.


Sincerely yours,




                                                                
Legh Jackson (Miss)




----------
Publicity Direct

TO: ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH.

This is the letter we sent to Premier Harris. It is urgent that you all
do likewise and/or phone his office -- 416-325-1941 or FAX his office --
416-325-3745 -- and hammer this message home.  Get others to join you.
Let Harris know that his shameless promotion of a certain ethnic agenda
is not acceptable.
<<<>>>


[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:49 PDT 1995
Article: 8709 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Subject: Letter to the editor from the leader of the Order, Robert Jay Mathews
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:28:59 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 216
Message-ID: <43u2vi$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3636 alt.revisionism:8709 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2660 alt.skinheads:3393

                    ----------------------------------------
TO THE EDITOR:

     For the past decade I have been a resident of Northern Pend
Oreille County.  When I first arrived in Metaline Falls, I had
only twenty-five dollars to my name, a desire to work hard and be
left alone, and the dream of someday acquiring my own small farm.
     During my three years at the mine and seven years at the
cement plant, I can safely say that I was known as a hard worker. 
I stayed out of the bars and pretty much kept to myself.  Anyone
who is familiar with Boundary Dam Road knows how my late father
and I carved a beautiful place out of the woods.  All of the
goals I had when I arrived were accomplished but one ... I was
not left alone.
     Within months of my arrival the FBI went to the mine office
and tried to have me fired from my job.  I was working in the
electrical department at the time and my foreman, fortunately,
had a deep and lasting dislike for the Feds.  He was informed of
the situation by the mine secretary.  Had it been the mine
manager instead of the secretary that the Government goons talked
to, I would have lost my job.
     This campaign of harassment and intimidation began because
of my involvement in the Tax Rebellion Movement from the time I
was fifteen to twenty years old.  The Government was on me so
much in Arizona that during one incident when I was eighteen, IRS
agents shot at me for nothing more than a misdemeanor tax
violation.
     I left Arizona and the Tax Rebellion when I was twenty.  I
left not out of fear of the IRS or because of submission to their
tyranny, but because I was thoroughly disgusted with the American
people.  I maintained then as I do now, that our people have
devolved into some of the most cowardly, sheepish, degenerates
that have ever littered the face of this planet.
     I had hoped to start a new life in the state of Washington,
but the ruling powers had other plans for me.  When I learned of
their highly illegal attempt to have me fired, I wrote s letter
to their Seattle office and told them "I would take no more, to
leave me alone, or I would respond in such a way that could be
very painful to certain agents,"
      After the letter they gradually started to let me be.
     I soon settled down to marriage, clearing my land, and
reading.  Reading became an obsession with me.  I consumed volume
upon volume on subjects dealing with history, politics and
economics.  I was especially taken with Spengler's "Decline if
the West" and "Which Way Western Man?".  I also subscribed to
numerous periodicals on current American problems, especially
those concerned with the ever increasing decline of White
America.
     My knowledge of ancient European history started to awaken a
wrongfully suppressed emotion buried deep within my soul, that of
racial pride and consciousness.
     The stronger my love for my people grew, the deeper became
my hatred for those who would destroy my race, my heritage, and
darken the future of my children.
     By the time my son had arrived, I realized that White
America, indeed my entire race, was headed for oblivion unless
White men rose and turned the tide.  The more I came to love my son
the more I realized that unless things changed radically, by the
time he was my age, he would be a stranger in his own land, a
blonde-haired, blue-eyed Aryan in a country populated mainly by
Mexicans, Mulattoes, Blacks and Asians.  His future was growing
darker by the day.
     I came to learn that this was not by accident, that there is
a small, cohesive alien group within this nation working day and
night to make this happen.  I learned that these culture
distorters have an iron grip on both major political parties, on
Congress, on the media, on the publishing houses, and on most of
the major Christian denominations in this nation, even though these
aliens subscribe to a religion which is diametrically opposed to
Christianity.
     These are the same people who Ex-Senator William J.
Fulbright and the late General Brown tried to warn us about.  Henry
Ford and Charles Lindberg tried vainly to warn us also.  Had we
been more vigilant, my son's future would not be so dark and
dismal.
     Thus I have no choice.  I must stand up like a White man and
do battle.
     A secret war has been developing for the last year between the
regime in Washington and an ever growing number of White people who
are determined to regain what our forefathers discovered, explored,
conquered, settled, built and died for. The FBI has been able to
keep this war secret only because up until now we have been doing
nothing more than growing and preparing.  The government, however,
seems determined to force the issue, so we have no choice left but
to stand and fight back.  Hail Victory!
     It is at this point that I wish to address the multitude of
lies that the federals have been telling about Gary Lee Yarbrough
and myself.
     Gary did not "ambush" any agents.  For weeks prior to this
incident they had been harassing Gary, following him everywhere,
even to the hospital to visit his gravely ill daughter.The day of
the mythical ambush Gary was out in his yard when he saw a forest
service truck driving across his property in obvious disregard to
the numerous no trespassing signs scattered about his land.  He
yelled at the truck to stop but it kept coming towards his house
until it crashed into and destroyed a gate.  At this point Gary
fired warning shots into the air and the truck drove away.  That
.. was the big ambush.
     The newspapers are saying now that Gary not only ambushed
three agents but that he hit three of them.  Gary did not even
realize that they were FBI at the time, which is fortunate for them
because Gary is an expert marksman and had he decided to ambush the
FBI he easily could have killed every fed within range of his
weapon.
     It was until 8:00 p.m. that night that Gary realized what was
actually taking place.  That is when approximately thirty agents
drove up to Gary's house.  Gary and a young house guest went
outside to investigate the commotion.  When the Feds started
yelling at Gary he dropped to the ground and rolled into a ditch
behind the line of government vehicles.  The young house guest went
running back into Gary's residence.  After waiting for three hours
the FBI used Gary's wife as a shield and a hostage and went into
the house.  What brave men they are.
     As incredulous as it sounds Gary laid in the ditch behind the
agents for five hours with his gun aimed at their backs.  Had Gary
really wanted to ambush these invaders then that was a wonderful
opportunity to do so.  Gary chose instead to give them quarter,
something he would later come to regret.  Gary
eventually slipped out of the ditch and into the woods.
     The incompetence of these gun toting bureaucrats never ceases
to amaze me.  Especially after their attempted ambush and murder of
myself in a Portland motel.  First, let me say that the FBI was not
there to arrest Gary but to ambush me.  They didn't even know that
Gary was in the room.  The only reason they were able to find me
was because a trusted friend in Room 14 was actually a traitor and
an informant.  The FBI has vast resources and the latest technology
but the quality of their agents is going down hill with every new
recruit.  That's because most of the best White men in this country
are starting to realize that to be an FBI agent is to be nothing
more than a mercenary for the ADL and Tel Aviv.
     When I stepped out of my motel room that morning, a gang of
armed men came running at me.  None of the men had uniforms on and
the only thing they said was "Stop, you bastard".  At this, I
yelled at Gary who was still inside and I leaped down the
stairwell and took off running into the parking lot.  A woman agent
shot at my back and the bullet missed and hit the motel manager. 
I rounded the corner of the motel and took off down the hill into
a residential area.  After running for two blocks I decided to quit
being the hunted and become the hunter.  I drew my gun and waited
behind a concrete wall for the agents to draw near.  When I aimed
my gun at the closest agent I saw the
handsome face of a young White man and lowered my aim to his knee
and his foot.  Had I not done so I could have killed both agents
and still had the use of my hand which is now mangled beyond repair
and which I might very well lose altogether.  That is the last time
I will ever give quarter.
     As for the traitor in Room 14, we will eventually find him. 
If it takes ten years and we have to travel to the far ends of the
earth we will find him.  And true to our oath when we do find him,
we will remove his head from his body.
     I have no regrets or apologies to make for Gary or myself.  In
fact, I am proud that we had the courage and the determination to
stand up and fight for our race and our heritage at a time in
history when such a deed is called a crime and not an act of valor.
     Approximately nine moths ago the FBI went to my house while I
was away and threatened my two year old son.  That was a very big
mistake on their part.  After the Portland shootout they went to my
house and threatened my sixty-three year old mother.  Such brave
men they are.
     I am not going into hiding, rather I will press the FBI and
let them know what it is like to become the hunted.  Doing so it is
only logical to assume that my days on this planet are rapidly
drawing to a close.  Even so, I have no fear.  For the reality of
my life is death, and the worst the enemy can do to me is shorten
my tour of duty in this world.  I will leave knowing that I have
made the ultimate sacrifice to ensure the future of my children.  
   As always, for blood, soil, honor, for faith and for race.     
                                   Robert Jay Mathews

     

[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:50 PDT 1995
Article: 8710 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Addresses for Racialist music and products
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:30:13 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <43u31q$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3637 alt.revisionism:8710 alt.skinheads:3394 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2661

 




Newsflag: alt.politics.nationalism.white
From: rahowa88@aol.com (Rahowa88)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Some More Addresses
Date: 21 Feb 1995 11:22:06 -0500
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Lines: 60
Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com
Message-ID: <3id3vf$5t3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3hbjp7$dgt@sole.rutgers.edu>
Reply-To: rahowa88@aol.com (Rahowa88)
NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com

SOME ADDITIONAL ADDRESSES FOR MUSIC:


PHOENIX RECORDS
Dept. R - P.O. Box 898
Walnut, CA 91788
USA

HARDLINE RECORDS
Dept. R - P.O. Box 17651
Sarasota, FL 34276
USA

KROWBAR RECORDS
Dept. R - P.O. Box 40383
Baton Rouge, LA 70835
USA

ANGEL'S ACTION GEAR
Dept. R - P.O. Box 1108
Morgantown, WV 26505
USA

STORMFRONT RECORDS
Dept. R - P.O. Box 24183
Milwaukee, WI 53224
USA

ERIC OWENS
Dept. R - P.O. Box 45866
Los Angeles, CA 90045
USA

WHITE PRIDE REVIVALIST
Dept. R - P.O. Box 38052
Cleveland, OH 44138
USA

TUONO RECORDS
Dept R - C.P. Succ. 6
I-36100 Vicenza
ITALY

S.P.E. Records
Dept. R - B.P.N. 20
94251 Gentilly, Cedex
FRANCE

ONE VOICE
Dept. R - 31 Rue Des Rouquettes
49500 Segre
FRANCE

RAGNAROCK RECORDS
Box 1009
37201 Ronneby
SWEDEN


**SEND AT LEAST $1(US) OR $2(US) TO COVER POSTAGE**

[huge signature inclusion deleted]

From cpn@inforamp.net Thu Sep 21 23:53:51 PDT 1995
Article: 8711 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads
Subject: Para-Military Extremists ambush cops!
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:32:20 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <43u35q$8v2@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:3638 alt.revisionism:8711 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2662 alt.skinheads:3395

59159


alt.conspiracy #59159 (0 + 150 more)                                       (1)
From: James Daugherty 
Newsgroups: alt.politics.usa.constitution,alt.conspiracy,talk.politics.
+           libertarian,alt.politics.libertarian



[1] Paramilitary Extremists Riot! Scores Killed!
Date: Mon Jan 30 17:53:41 EST 1995
Organization: Msen, Inc. -- Ann Arbor, MI (account info: +1 313 998-4562)
Lines: 116
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN
X-Sender: jhdaugh@garnet.msen.com
To: New Paradigms Discussion 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 22:28:11 -0600 (CST)
From: James Fish 
To: fwiw@earth.execpc.com
Subject: [FWIW] Those who fail to learn from history....

FWIW

==================================================================
The BIRCH BARK BBS / 414-242-5070
--MORE--(18%)
==================================================================

THE NEW AMERICAN -- February 6, 1995
Copyright 1994 -- American Opinion Publishing, Incorporated
P.O. Box 8040, Appleton, WI  54913

==================================================================

Could It Happen Again?
Scores Killed, Hundreds Injured As Para-Military Extremists Riot

==================================================================

BOSTON, April 20 -- National guard units seeking to confiscate a 
cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed on April 
19th by elements of a para-military extremist faction. Military 
and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more 
than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared 
that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has 
links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement. Gage blamed the 
extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal 
--MORE--(35%)

revenue offices.

The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," 
issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any 
individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure 
law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed widespread refusal 
by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. 
Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition 
earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early April 
between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized 
the forcible confiscation of illegal arms. One government official, 
speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these 
people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and 
turned over their weapons voluntarily."

Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply 
of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize 
arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed 
extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government's plans.

During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel 
--MORE--(54%)

Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered 
the armed 
group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by 
a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing 
extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the 
extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed 
citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. 
Colonel Smith, finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered 
a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national 
joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor 
has also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and 
leading the attack against the government troops. Samuel Adams, Paul 
Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" 
of the extremist faction, remain at large.

END OF ARTICLE


[signature inclusions deleted]
From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 12:55:08 PDT 1995
Article: 8884 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 15:48:21 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <441a28$gll@inforamp.net>
References:  <43qqlm$4fa@newsbf02.news.aol.com> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:9723 alt.illuminati:8938 alt.politics.correct:58044 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2782 alt.politics.white-power:3832 alt.revisionism:8884 alt.skinheads:3468 can.general:51891 can.legal:8373 can.politics:4468 ont.general:21720

>In article <43qqlm$4fa@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, wolfshook3@aol.com
>(WolfsHook3) wrote:
>
>* Not True! Zundelsite is going to be linked to the Nizkor Holocaust
>* whatever-something Project so that there can be free exchange of opposing
>* views. Free speech exchange in action. Look for it in about a month.
>
>It will take a month to write a html hotlink script to McVay's website?
>Geez! I could look at the source, insert the link and e-mail the updated
>page in thirty minutes' time. It's not that difficult, and it shouldn't
>take a month to get it done.


I believe Zundel has said that he is going to check with his lawyers first.

Look on his WWW site where he lays down the plan.

Marc


From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:28 PDT 1995
Article: 8894 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: ADL exposed as liars and haters (Re: Marc Lemire runs to the police )
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:08:28 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 527
Message-ID: <441b84$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43p1vq$9v8@inforamp.net> <43t22n$amn@dns.enter.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8894 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2790 alt.skinheads:3472 alt.politics.white-power:3844

>>   cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) writes:
>>  
>>  More lies...    When have I ever claimed that the National Alliance is my 
>>  favorite group.
>>
>   Why don't you read your own sig, asshole?


This is what my SIG says.

[deleted]

PLease point out where in this I mention that the National Alliance is my 
favorite group?????


 
>>  Any you may come up with a few examples of Rightwing violence, but it is 
no 
>>  where near what Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racists groups have caused.
>>  
>>  Get to the facts....
>>  
>>  
>>
>>                       Or try these other Internet sites.
>
>>                               NATIONAL ALLIANCE
>>                             http://www.natvan.com
>>>>>
>   First of all the facts are that in each of the last several years there 
have been 
>hundreds of hate crimes committed against Jews in the United States alone.  

According to who's statistics?   I do not think that this is true.  Maybe 
there has been a few, here and there, but to say hundreds...  NO WAY.

>The fact that they keep and accurate records of them is one of the reasons 
that you 
>are so afraid of the ADL.  

I am afriad of the ADL?????   Here i'll post some ADL info at the bottom of 
this message...   


> Compared to the paltry list you presented -- most of by a 
> single fringe group not recognized by most Jews as speaking for them --  the 
list 
>of crimes by the KKK, the Nazis, the Brotherhood,  and like groups is too 
long to 
>even begin to list.


BULLSHIT.   The order committed only a few offences, the KKK has committed 
morwe than the Order, but NO where near the numbers committed by Jewish 
Groups.

I wish you would PLEASE list it and back-up what you are saying.  After-all in 
the end you will be looking like an idiot.


>   As I wrtie this I have just returned from the preliminary hearing of 
Nelson 
>Birdwell, a member of the National Alliance -- the group you suggest that 
readers 
>check out.  He was bound over for trial for murder (he is the cousin of the 
>Freeman brothers).   Tell us again about that fine organization.


You must be smoking some funny drugs buddy.  Since I have never said ANYTHING 
about the National Alliance.  I never claimed they were a great organization, 
I never claimed they were a bad organization.  Why are you trying to put words 
in my mouth??



Marc

ADL Info below
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADL PROMOTES HATE, ATTORNEY SAYS (Constitution Under Attack!)

    The growing assault on the First Amendment through "hate crimes" laws
being promoted by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of B'nai B'rith was 
discussed on the February 20 broadcast of *SPOTLIGHT* Editor Vince Ryan's 
weekly radio talk forum, "Editor's Roundtable."
    Ryan's guest was attorney Kirk Lyons, director of the CAUSE Foundation, 
which is spearheading a Constitutional counterassault on the forces seeking 
to subvert the Bill of Rights.                
    Lyons and his foundation have become involved in a number of celebrated 
cases including the case of persecuted revisionist researcher Fred Leuchter 
and Idaho dissident Randy Weaver.
    An edited transcript of the interview follows. Questions by Ryan and
his colleagues are in CAPS. Lyon's comments are in regular text.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    WHAT IS THE *CAUSE* FOUNDATION?
    "CAUSE" stands for "Canada, Australia, United States, South Africa and 
Europe~--the places where legal traditions prevail and where we feel civil 
rights are taking the biggest pounding.

    HOW DID THIS GET STARTED?
    It started out of the so-called sedition trial in Fort Smith, Arkansas in
1987. That was the government's most significant attempt to muzzle an entire 
part of the political spectrum by putting their leaders on trial--15 men--for 
what were basically "thought crimes." Their alleged "seditious conspiracy" 
was a supposed attempt to overthrow the government of the United States.
    In using their usual panoply of informers, paid witnesses and down-right 
perjurers, the government tried to put these men away for 20 years and was 
unsuccessful.

    WOULD YOU SUGGEST THE JURORS IN THE CASE SAW THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT 
SCHEME?
    Absolutely. This was a true case of jury nullification. The jury took 
2-1/2 months of testimony by government witnesses and had just about all they 
could stand of it. This was a rural jury of good, honest, hardworking 
Americans, and they saw through this and acquitted all 15 men.

    WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THE LAST 20 YEARS HAVE BEEN A GREAT ERA FOR CIVIL
RIGHTS, AND YOU'RE SUGGESTING JUST THE OPPOSITE. PLEASE EXPLAIN.
    The problem is that the Bill of Rights, which our Founding Fathers 
bequeathed us, has been taking a very serious pounding depending on which 
point of view you are looking at it. If you are coming from the leftist 
perspective and you see all of these advances of the civil rights movement, 
these people are now in power, they are the tenured professors.
    However, the people who really believe in freedom of speech--the 
dissidents in America, the patriots, the people who do not see "the emperor's
new clothes," the politically Incorrect--are having their rights thrown away 
and basically flushed. When their rights go, all Americans' rights go.

    DO YOU SEE THIS ESCALATING? WHAT EFFECT WILL THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION
HAVE ON ALL OF THIS?
    Family values are under attack by the Clinton administration, with, for
example, the attempts to put avowed homosexuals in the military. We see 
family values going down the drain, and with that, basic freedoms and 
liberties.
    Freedom of speech is under attack because of attempts by government at 
all levels to impose so-called hate crime laws on America, and this is 
basically a means of punishing thought that you don't like.

    WE KEEP HEARING A LOT ABOUT "POLITICALLY CORRECT" THINKING AND ATTEMPTS
TO INSTITUTE RULES ABOUT POLITICALLY CORRECT THINKING ON COLLAGE CAMPUSES
ETC. DO YOU SEE DANGEROUS TRENDS HERE?
    Very dangerous trends. If people permit the government to determine what 
is acceptable political thought and what is not acceptable political thought, 
then you are in for big trouble. If you are going to trust the government to 
determine what the protected areas of speech are, then you might as well 
forget about any concept of freedom of speech because the government will 
punish that thought which it finds endangers it or which it feels is a threat 
to its own complacency and security.

    A LOT OF STATES AND MUNICIPALITIES HAVE HATE CRIMES LEGISLATION ON THE
BOOKS. IS THIS A GROWING TREND?
    Almost all states and most major cities have some form of "ethnic 
intimidation" or "hate crime" law in effect. Usually it's in the form of an 
enhancement. For example, if you go to a grocery store and rob it and take
the money and run, you get one sentence. However, if you use an ethnic 
pejorative when you are committing that robbery, you get time-and-a-half, 
basically, in sentencing.
    How do they prove a hate crime? They have to go into your belief 
structure. They kick in your door, take your library, your papers, things 
you've read and things you've said, and use that to prove you are a "hater" 
and deserving of a greater punishment.

    WHAT IS THE OVERALL SUCCESS OF PROSECUTIONS OF SO-CALLED HATE CRIMES?
    Such prosecutions are very successful because they are picking on people 
with no resources: street toughs, young people, people who find it much 
easier to plea bargain than to fight all the way to the Supreme Court.
    The problem here is that the discretion of whether or not to charge
someone with a hate crime is left up to the individual prosecutor. Nine
times out of ten when it is Black-on-White crime they will not prosecute it 
as a hate crime. However, when it is White-on-Black crime--which can get 
media attention--they will prosecute it as a hate crime and go for the throat.
    There is a hate crime case before the Supreme Court, Wisconsin vs 
Mitchell, which is going to address sentencing aspects of hate crimes. In
that case a Black youth, after watching the movie Mississippi Burning, saw a 
White youth walking down the street and told his comrades, "Let's go get him," 
and beat him up. The fact that a Black individual is the defendant in this 
case may result in the hate crime statute being knocked out.
    The free speech aspect is what is really important here. If you beat
someone up, you should be charged with battery. If you kill someone you
should be charged with murder. However, you should not put someone's belief 
structure on trial, because that endangers the First Amendment. Put someone 
in jail for his crime against others, but don't put him in jail for his 
thoughts.

    IN SOME STATES IF YOU USE DEROGATORY TERMS AGAINST MINORITIES--BUT NOT
NECESSARILY AGAINST WHITES--YOU CAN BE SENTENCED TO JAIL.
    That's right, and that's true in large parts of Europe now. Everybody is 
getting in line with the "one world" concept. You can now be sent to jail for 
hurting someone's feelings, in fact.

    HOW DOES THE *CAUSE* FOUNDATION GET INVOLVED IN SOME OF THESE CASES?
    We have contacts throughout the country and in different parts of the
world. We have 80 attorneys who work with us and give us information. People 
call us with a problem or write us. If we think it is a case, crosses 
Constitutional issues, it's a case we'll get involved in.
    We're concerned with the First Amendment, in particular, but also the 
Second Amendment, which provides us a way of protecting all of our guaranteed 
rights in the Bill of Rights.
    
    HOW MANY CASES DO YOU HANDLE A YEAR?
    We handle roughly 70 to 80 cases a year, but we currently have three
major cases we're handling at this time. We're representing Fred Leuchter. 
The double standard in the area of hate crimes is that hate crimes are being 
committed against people like Leuchter and against revisionist historians 
such as those who are affiliated with the Institute for Historical Review.
    Leuchter, who is probably the world's foremost expert on methods of 
capital punishment, wrote a pioneering report describing his scientific, 
forensic examination of the Auschwitz concentration camp in Poland which 
determined that there were no certifiable traces of cyanide gas having been 
used for homicidal gassings at the so-called gas chambers at Auschwitz. For 
doing that he has been hounded and persecuted by the Anti-Defamation League 
(ADL) of B'nai B'rith.
    We successfully represented Leuchter in a criminal prosecution brought 
against him by the state of Massachusetts, which tried to strip him of his 
professional credentials. We're now working on a civil action against his 
persecutors.

    YOU MENTIONED THE ADL, AN UNSAVORY OUTFIT WHICH IS AN ILLEGALLY
UNREGISTERED FOREIGN AGENT FOR THE STATE OF ISRAEL. THE ADL HAS BEEN BEHIND
THE ENACTMENT OF HATE CRIMES LEGISLATION.
    One of the most insidious things about the ADL is the way they go to law 
enforcement agencies around the country and teach them about "hate." The ADL's 
basic message to law enforcement people is that "right wingers," "tax 
protesters," "patriots," etc will gut-shoot cops on the spot. They back this 
up with certain out-of-the-way incidents that have taken place in the past.
    They tell the police that if they pull over one of these people who are
"politically incorrect" the police should use extreme caution because they 
will end up getting shot.
    The ADL gets law enforcement people on edge so that there is an automatic, 
built-in tension on the part of the police when they approach someone who is  
perceived as being "politically incorrect."

    THERE'S AN IRONY THERE SINCE MOST OF THESE PEOPLE BEING TARGETED BY THE 
ADL ARE THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LAW-ABIDING, WHO BELIEVE IN THE LAW, WHO
SUPPORT THE CONSTITUTION, WHO ADMIRE THE MEN IN BLUE AND WHO LOOK UPON THE 
POLICEMAN AS A FRIEND AND NOT AN ENEMY.
    The ADL is promoting hate. They have created a vicious circle. The law
officer doesn't know whether he's going to get shot, and the person being 
pulled over is wondering, "Is the policeman going to kill me?"
    The ADL is selling these $20,000 seminars to law enforcement bodies
across the country. It's a perfect setup for the ADL.

    HATE CRIMES THEN WOULD BE MORE APPROPRIATELY CALLED "THOUGHT CRIMES."
    Exactly. Who is determining what is a "hate crime"? It's the government. 
That's what's so scary. If they can say a young lady at Vanderbilt University 
is committing a hate crime by hanging a Confederate flag on her wall and put 
her through an inquisition simply because her Black roommate was slightly 
offended, that's the kind of insanity these thought crimes [laws] have 
encouraged.

    YOU ARE INVOLVED IN THE INFAMOUS RANDY WEAVER CASE IN IDAHO, AREN'T YOU?
    Yes, we are. We are putting together a civil action against the government 
on behalf of the Weaver children, suing on their behalf because of the murder 
of their mother, Vicki who was shot in the head and their brother, Sammy, who 
was shot in the back.
    The government had done a psychiatric profile on Mr. and Mrs. Weaver and 
had advised the snipers (who killed Vicki and Sammy) that the Weavers would 
try to kill their own children and that they should be considered dangerous.

    WERE THESE GOVERNMENT PSYCHIATRISTS SUPPLIED THEIR INFORMATION ON THE 
WEAVERS AND OTHER POLITICAL DISSIDENTS BY THE ADL?
    Exactly so. Because of that, an FBI sniper killed Vicki Weaver while she
held an infant in her arms, shot a 14-year-old boy in the back who was trying 
to get away. That's why the CAUSE Foundation is around.

    HOW CAN PEOPLE GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU?
    They can write: CAUSE Foundation, PO Box 1235, Black Mountain, N.C. 28711
or call (704) 669-5189. We have a newsletter, the *Balance,* which we send to 
supporters in return for a $20 donation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Kirk Lyons also heads a group called ENOUGH!, which is organizing a 
public program to counter the publicly funded extravaganza on the Washington 
Mall associated with the opening of the U.S. Holocaust Museum. A site is now 
being negotiated with the National Park Service for the counter program. 
Lyons cites the inappropriateness of memorializing one group's suffering when 
so many others go unnoted. "Revisionists casts doubt as to whether the museum 
is built upon an enormous falsehood. Clearly, there is a question as to the 
propriety of catering to a powerful special interest group that wants a 
monopoly on suffering," said Lyons. ENOUGH! is located at 325 Pennsylvania 
Ave. SE, Washington, D.C. 20003; (202) 319-8357.   -=End

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADL ACCEPTS FINE AND INJUNCTION IN SAN FRANCISCO CASE


The District Attorney of San Francisco, the Anti-Defamation
League of B'nai B'rith (ADL) and ADL spy Roy Bullock have entered
into an agreement to settle the criminal case against the ADL and
Roy Bullock. Under the terms of the agreement, ADL will pay a
$75,000 fine to the City of San Francisco and will not in the
future knowingly receive confidential governmental information
which it is illegal for government officials to provide.

Receipt of such information was among the allegedly illegal acts
that brought ADL spying activity to the attention of the
prosecutors. The permanent injunction barring ADL from receiving
this information applies only to information from state and local
government officials in California.

In return, the San Francisco D.A. agreed not to pursue criminal
charges against the ADL and ADL spy Roy Bullock.

The settlement agreement recites that the San Francisco D.A.
believes that on multiple occasions within the past four years,
ADL and Bullock received non-public government information from
non-public documents the dissemination or possession of which is
illegal. According to the D.A., this would violate a provision of
the California Business and Professions Code. ADL and Bullock
deny the charges.

Victims of the ADL spy network declared that the agreement does
not go far enough. For example, the agreement includes no
admission of wrongdoing by ADL, no criminal sanctions, and no
disclosure to the victims of the allegedly illegal spying of the
information about victims that was exchanged between ADL and
the police.

  "The spy case is far from over for the ADL," said activist
Gregory T. Nojeim. ADL still faces two civil lawsuits, one for
invasion of privacy in California, and a federal civil rights
lawsuit brought by twelve groups and seven individuals. "We are
determined to see that justice is done, and that the rights of
the victims are vindicated," Nojeim said.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We believe that freedom of speech should be blocked, anyone who says
anything negative about jews or anything else should be blocked, End
Freedom of speech, freedom of speech should only be a privilege, not
a right" -spoken from Isaac Rosen (Jew)



Here is a press release from the Anti-Defamation League.
I downloaded the press release from the U.S. Newswire BBS
in Maryland at (410) 363-0834. I do not work for the ADL.

 Anti-Semitism Detoured on the Information Superhighway
 To: National Desk
 Contact: Myrna Shinbaum, 212-490-2525 ext. 7747 or
          Mary Vasiliades, 212-490-2525 ext. 7751,
          both of the Anti-Defamation League

   NEW YORK, Feb. 24  -- Anti-Semitic messages no longer
have a free ride on Prodigy's information superhighway,
the company has assured the Anti-Defamation League (ADL).
   Jeffrey P. Sinensky, director of the league's Civil Rights
Division, recently lodged a complaint with the computer online
service regarding two messages on Prodigy bulletin boards which
charged that ADL and Jews in general were responsible for the
shootout at the Waco compound of the Branch Davidians, as well
as the assassination of President Kennedy.  Sinensky was delighted
when he received a prompt response from Prodigy president, Ross
Slatzer, which said in part:
   "You'll be pleased to know that the individual was reported
to us by our members.  In addition to removing the note, the
individual was warned and subsequently suspended from using
the boards.  Any further infractions will result in immediate
account termination."
   ADL focused national attention in 1991 on the growing use
of online bulletin boards by Holocaust deniers and bigots.
After an exchange of letters between ADL and Prodigy and a barrage
of publicity, the firm amplified its guidelines concerning bulletin
board messages to include blatant expressions of bigotry, racism
and hate in its definition of what is "grossly repugnant."
   Sinensky said, "We are very pleased with the company's sensitivity
and good judgement in implementing and enforcing their prohibition
of statements that are grossly repugnant to community standards."
He said ADL has received considerable fewer complaints regarding
bigoted messages on Prodigy bulletin boards since the firm clarified
its guidelines.
   The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's
leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs
and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry.

--

"We don't like what people are saying about us (jews) so we will do
everything in our power to shut them up, and we have the power to do
it." - Isaac Rosen


The ADL (Anti-Defamation League) a jewish/liberal run organization is
not allowing any thoughts or speech that does not support their
political agenda. 

The saddest part of it all is that the sheep masses in our society 
follow blindly.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     Toward the end of May a letter of mine concerning the 
Holocaust was printed in a local newspaper, the Daily Herald.  
About a month later a letter from the ADL, which was a response 
to my letter, appeared in the same paper. 
     Here is my letter:
     Richard Cohen's column, "No, there are not two sides to 
every story," which appeared in the April 22 Herald, makes me 
wonder whether Cohen is so prejudiced as to be blind, or whether 
he has no concern for truth at all and in the manner of a 
propagandist cares only about what people can be made to believe. 
     According to Cohen, to debate whether six million Jews were 
exterminated in gas chambers by the Nazis "is like debating 
whether the earth is flat."  Cohen also uses the word "lie."  He 
says of the literature that denies the mass murder of Jews in gas 
chambers that it is "a set of lies rooted in prejudice."  Now to 
lie is to say something that one knows is untrue.  Does Cohen 
honestly believe that his charge of lying is accurate and fair?
     Cyanide gas, which was allegedly used by the Nazis, clings 
to surfaces and leaves a residue that can be detected years later 
by chemical analysis.  Three forensic examinations of the inner 
walls of the alleged gas chamber in Auschwitz have been made 
since 1988: one by Fred Leuchter, an American whose business 
involved the construction of gas chambers for prisons; one by the 
Institute of Forensic Research in Krakow, which was commissioned 
by the Auschwitz State Museum; and one by Germar Rudolf, a German 
chemist.  These three forensic examinations all drew the same 
conclusion: the building had not been used as a gas chamber.
     What I have just recited is one sound argument among many 
that disputes the Holocaust.  My point is that Holocaust 
revisionists have reason to believe as they do.  They are not 
contending that the earth is flat, nor are they lying.
                                Ken Blewitt
                                Wheaton

     Here is the letter in response to my letter, printed in the 
Herald on July 1: 
     In his letter of May 27, Ken Blewitt attempts to uphold 
arguments of Holocaust revisionism.  In doing so, he relies upon 
the research of "Fred Leuchter," a self-described engineer from 
Boston.  It is important to know that Leuchter has not been 
listed by the Massachusetts Board of Professional Engineers and 
Land Surveyors as a registered, credentialed engineer.
     Blewitt's denial of the use of gas chambers is not only 
offensive, but wrong.  According to the scholarly work Holocaust, 
published in 1974, gas chambers were installed and operated at 
Lublin, Sobibor, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau from 1942 until 
November 1944.  Such chambers were the mechanisms for the mass 
murder of approximately 2.5 to 3 million Jews.
     Further, a report by an ex-medical orderly and 
Unterscharfuhrer included in "Truth Prevails: Demolishing 
Holocaust Denial" details the gassing process.  The orderly 
explained, "It is difficult to heave the interlaced corpses out 
of the chamber as the gas is stiffening all their limbs."
     Blewitt's statements are rooted in prejudice and are neither 
2
sound nor truthful.  Denying existence of the Holocaust and 
subjecting it to "revisionism" is not a legitimate academic 
process but a means to further anti-Semitic views.
                              Jamie Pearlman
                              Assistant Director
                              Anti-Defamation League
                              Greater Chicago / Wisconsin Region
     
     As yet I have not sent a letter to the Herald in reply to 
Pearlman's letter. 
     I would be interested to hear what those who log on to 
Cyberspace Minuteman think of Pearlman's letter.  Among other 
things, does it suggest that the ADL has a file on me?
     
                                    Ken Blewitt 
     

From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:29 PDT 1995
Article: 8895 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: White Paper on the ADL Part 1 of 3
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:12:12 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 655
Message-ID: <441bf4$gll@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8895 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2791 alt.skinheads:3473 alt.politics.white-power:3845

-----------------------------------------
Get the "Identity.faq" and many other files by
anonymous FTP from:    ftp.netcom.com /pub/SF/SFA
-------------------------------------------------

White Paper on the ADL
FOREIGN AGENTS CONTROL YOUR GOVERNMENT

(Spotlight Reprint from August 10, 1981)

     [This white paper was distributed to every member of the 
House of Representatives and the Senate of the United States on 
June 1, 1981 in booklet form.  Since then it has been sent 
hundreds of thousands of Liberty Lobby members and 
supporters.  Demand has grown so fast that this edition has been 
prepared for each subscriber to The SPOTLIGHT.  Extra copies 
of either the booklet edition or the newsprint edition are available 
>from  Liberty Lobby, 300 Independence Ave, S.E., Washington 
D.C., 20003,  1-800-522-6292:   NEWSPRINT Edition: $10 per 
hundred, BOOKLET Edition: 10 copies or more 40 each.]


Dual Loyalists Work Against U.S. Interests

     Liberty Lobby has always advocated a policy of America 
first in foreign affairs and this has made it the enemy of every 
alien interest which wishes to manipulate the power of the United 
States for its own selfish purposes- purposes not often noble and 
never in this nation's interests.

     Thus, Liberty Lobby has been the butt of a sustained 
smear campaign by the media designed to intimidate potential 
supporters - to frighten them off for fear of a similar fate.

     The main organization orchestrating this malicious 
barrage of hate has been the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) of 
B'nai B'rith, and the purpose of this white paper is to analyze the 
purpose and methods of the ADL.

     This laudable (not to mention courageous) task becomes 
all the more important at this time when America stands a hair's-
breath away from nuclear war and the ADL is the main culprit 
leading us into that holocaust.

     Liberty Lobby deeply resents the fact that America is 
literally an occupied nation, held in subjection by a foreign 
government which has seized control of its policy-making 
apparatus - a once-great nation without the will to resist or to act 
independently when the interests of this other nation are involved.

     It is the purpose of Liberty Lobby to acquaint enough 
Americans with these facts to cause a political upheaval- an 
upheaval which is clearly on the way simply because the facts are 
so vivid that they can no longer be hidden.

     Liberty Lobby urges all readers of this white paper to 
personally contact their congressman and senators to discuss the 
facts presented below and to demand that the allegations be either 
confirmed or denied by official investigation.  If the ADL is- as 
we state- an unregistered agent of a foreign power then the parties 
responsible must be indicted and tried for felony violation of 
American law.

     Congress can do no less than investigate these serious 
charges and you have the right and obligation to be sure that it 
does.

Background

     Most Americans have probably never heard of the Anti-
Defamation League of B'nai B'rith (ADL).  Many of those who 
have heard of it (including some of its own naive supporters) 
regard it as nothing more than another in the vast herd of 
organizations that claim to be promoting brotherhood.  Only those 
who have paid attention to what the ADL is actually doing have a 
real conception of its nature.

     The ADL was founded in 1913 by the B'nai B'rith (Sons 
of the Covenant), a Jewish fraternal organization dating back to 
1843.  The B'nai B'rith has always publicly represented its own 
activities as essentially charitable.  It is tax-exempt and 
contributions are tax-deductible.  Its creature, the ADL, was 
allegedly intended to act as a counterforce to anti-Jewish sentiment 
in the United States.  Originally it appeared that the ADL was to 
be nothing more than a publicity organ of the B'nai B'rith whose 
purpose was to combat religious prejudice against, and 
unflattering stereotyping of, the growing number of Jewish 
immigrants in the United States.

     It quickly became clear that the ADL had taken to itself a 
more ambitious role.  It would have not only a positive 
propaganda function; it would also have a "monitoring" or 
espionage function, along with a suppressive, censoring function 
whose goal was to prevent anything being heard, read, or seen 
which was opposed by those who control the ADL.

     Additionally, the scope of the ADL's protection of the 
Jews against defamation was defined to include the 
encouragement of political and social programs and attitudes 
which would help the Jews (most of whom were arriving from 
Eastern Europe and were perceived as people of distinctly alien 
race, tongue, beliefs, and customs) gain more and more power, 
status, prosperity, and influence.  Because the Jews on the whole 
were "outsiders" working their way up- as were other immigrants- 
the ADL took a stance that was harshly opposed to people who 
already "belonged," as well as to their opinions, religions, 
traditions, heroes, institutions, clubs, jokes, scientific theories, and 
everything else which tended to bind together and stabilize the 
already-established Americans into a relatively homogeneous 
cultural and social whole.

Secret Report

     There was an effort to make the ADL's efforts appear 
more altruistic, and to disguise their true thrust, by creating the 
appearance of working on behalf of all minorities, for brotherhood 
in general.  A recent proof that such a scheme was consciously 
contrived by the ADL is found n a secret report entitled "The 
Proposed B'nai B'rith- Anti-Defamation League Operations in 
Latin America,"  written in 1965 by Arnold Forster, who for many 
years was general counsel of the ADL.  Depicting Latin America 
as a kind of new frontier for development by the ADL, and 
lamenting only that Latin America Jews are not more unified and 
more aware of the threat of anti-Semitism, Forster writes on page 
46:
      (Many elements in the Jewish community are convinced 
"things are good."  These people have closed their eyes for many 
years to existing anti-Semitism, hoping that by doing so it will go 
away.  This group is fearful that public action designed to counter 
anti-Jewish hostility will "stir things up."   They are reluctant to 
"make waves,"  attracting attention to themselves.  The only way 
these Jews will be persuaded to join defense efforts is to "dress 
up" programs with the problems of other ethnic groups, 
camouflaging the fight for the Jewish minority in an across-the-
board fight for all minorities.)

     Liberty Lobby has a full copy of this amazing blueprint 
for expansion into South America by exploiting and intensifying 
social problems.
     
     If resentment arose among the established Americans 
(most of whom were of Northern European descent), then it would 
be ascribed to selfishness and prejudice; a strong sense of guilt 
must be inculcated in those who felt the natural responses of pride 
and self-defense even as the ADL and other Jewish groups 
worked to increase Jewish pride.  If anybody criticized the ADL 
or the aims and people it supported, then he was an anti-Semite 
and a danger to democracy.  If anybody opposed legislation that 
would take money, power, or privileges away fro the established 
Americans and give them to unestablished Americans, he was 
somebody to be shunned and humiliated on account of his greed 
and bigotry.  Even those who manifested simple patriotism and 
pride of heritage were ridiculed as "nativists" or attacked as 
dangerous fanatics.

     "Nationalism" became a dirty word in the ADL dictionary 
because of its connotation of white cohesion.  Meanwhile the 
ADL always dealt sympathetically with any ideology - socialism, 
communism, internationalism- which promised to break down the 
existing leadership of society.

     That was during the first half of this century.  And then 
came political Zionism- no longer just a dream of returning all 
Jews to a single nation of their own, but instead an active process 
by which Palestine was to be seized by Jews from its Arab owners 
and turned into a super-nationalistic state with an official religion, 
to be populated by Jews from all over the world and supported 
patriotically and financially by those who did not actually go there.

     What was bad in America was fine in Israel, as far as the 
ADL was concerned.  America needed a "pluralistic" (that is, 
accommodating every race, religion, and culture) society, while 
Israel had a monolithic society.  America needed a total separation 
of church and state (no displays of Christmas trees or crosses on 
public grounds, and no prayers in public schools), while Israel 
was inseparable from Judaism.

     The ADL became the instrument of a foreign power 
following the Zionist policy of terrorism and aggression in 
Palestine which resulted in the foundation of Israel.  ADL leaders 
are constantly traveling to and from Israel and have frequent 
communications with Israeli diplomatic personnel in the United 
States.  ADL publications, such as the "ADL Bulletin" and 
"Facts," are largely devoted to Israeli and Zionist matters.  The 
energy of the ADL is largely focused on stifling criticism of Israel 
in this country by labeling such criticism "anti-Semitism" and 
seeking the ruin of any politician or private citizen who dares to 
say anything against Zionism or Israeli interests.

34 Americans Killed

     After Israel's planes knowingly attacked the American 
ship, "USS Liberty," and killed 34 American sailors, the ADL 
boasted about its success in covering up and distorting the truth 
about the atrocity.  When Liberty Lobby's daily radio program, 
"This is Liberty Lobby," reported on Israeli military attacks on the 
Arabs, the ADL called the program anti-Semitic and bigoted and 
undertook a long and viscous campaign of lies, threats, and 
economic intimidation to get the program off the air.

     As all members of Congress know, more than one man of 
politics has been consigned to private life because he was less than 
adoring of Israel, or even because he admitted that there is such a 
thing as a Zionist lobby or a Zionist influence on the American 
press-  an influence which, less than incidentally, is felt mainly 
through the ADL.

     More ominously still, it now appears that Zionist 
influence in this country is spearheaded by the Israeli secret 
service, the Mossad, and that the ADL and the openly terrorist 
Jewish Defense League (JDL) are orchestrated by the Mossad.  
The ADL maintains a pose of opposition to violence, while the 
JDL, openly flying the Israeli flag within this country, screams for 
blood and makes physical assaults on its victims.  The same man 
who loses his job or is denied an office because of the ADL is 
liable to be beaten up or shot by the JDL.  The ADL and the JDL 
are two horns of the same beast.

Methods

     According to Joseph P. Kamp, Arnold Forster, the long-
time general counsel of the ADL, was arrested many years ago for 
painting swastikas on a synagogue.  Much more recently, the 
Associated Press reported that Irving Rubin, West Coast leader of 
the JDL, was booked for investigation of using an explosive 
device in the bombing of the Beth Sar Shalom Religious Center in 
North Hollywood.

     This apparently incongruous behavior points up the 
important fact that the ADL (and the JDL) must have anti-
Semitism in order to exist, and they will create the appearance of it 
if they cannot find it growing in the wild.  Zionism is in fact 
founded on the Zionist's acceptance of anti-Semitism as a natural 
and unavoidable phenomenon which can be ended only by the 
movement of Jews to their own homeland.  (Herzl, "The Jewish 
States: An Attempt at a Modern Solution of the Jewish Question," 
1943, pp. 19-20; Hertzberg, ed., "The Zionist idea," 1966, p. 49.)  
As long as most Jews show no inclination to migrate to Israel, the 
fear of anti-Semitism whipped up by the ADL serves the second 
useful purpose of garnering tremendous financial and political 
support for Israel among Jews in America and elsewhere.

     The scope of the ADL's propaganda efforts would be 
impossible to detail in a short space.  The ADL line is planted in 
everything from comic books to textbooks, "true confessions" 
magazines to Christian religious publications.  The television 
series, "Holocaust," was basically an ADL creation and was 
accomplished by a great outpouring of ADL-orchestrated 
publicity and a barrage of study guides for use in schools and 
churches.  The same is true, to a lesser extent, of the series 
"Masada."  Without even going into the historical inaccuracies of 
the two films, their messages can be summed up easily:  1. The 
Israelis were (are) nicer than all other humans.  2. Jews always are 
persecuted by unappreciative "gentiles."  3. Israel is Jewish 
property.  4.  Israel is the only hope for Jewish survival.

Words and Images

     To purvey its propaganda the ADL has machined a 
special set of verbal tools for its unique purposes, just as did the 
communists, for whom "democracy" means communism and 
"liquidate" means murder.  The ADL vocabulary is designed to 
make the ADL and its clients look wonderful while making its 
victims and enemies seem abhorrent.  The process begins with the 
creation of two contrasting images- one of innocence, kindliness, 
intelligence, and tolerance, and another as an amalgam of disease, 
neurosis, insanity, wild-eyed religious fanaticism, mindless hatred, 
torture, and mass murder, most typically in the form of pogroms 
medieval and modern.

     We have all seen the movies, the novels, the comics, the 
plays, the "musicals," the comedians, the well-tutored teachers, and 
the endless torrent of television programs which create those 
ADL-desired images.

Love and Hate

     The lines are drawn as clearly as at any Saturday-night 
professional wrestling match where the handsome, cleancut athlete 
in the white cowboy hat confronts the grotesque, slavering mound 
of blubber that will attempt to annihilate him.  The crowds love 
and hate the images even before the battle of good and evil begins, 
and once it is established who deserves to be obliterated, the same 
brutal cheating that draws boos when originated by the monster 
brings screams of delight when used by the good guy.

     The ADL places itself and those it represents in the 
angelic realm of Good.  Those who oppose it or displease it are 
consigned to the demonic kingdom of Evil.  The military invasions 
of the Good are righteous wars of self-defense.  Everybody else's 
wars are wars of aggression.  The tortures and prison-murders of 
the Good are interrogations and accidents.  The napalming of 
civilians and the wiping out of whole villages are "retaliations" or 
inspiring military victories if carried out by the Good, and deeds 
of infamy to be memorialized 'ad nauseum' if inflicted by the Evil.

     When the ADL spreads lies about somebody it is 
"sharing information about the truth nature" of its victim.  If the 
lies are about an employee, the employer is cautioned about "the 
effect on community good-will of your keeping such an individual 
on your payroll after you have been made aware of his true 
nature."  A politician or businessman who is threatened with 
blackmail if he doesn't fall in line is being "sensitized to Jewish 
concerns."  

     The expression of views disliked by the ADL is a 
"spewing forth of bigotry and hate."  Such views are "filth," 
"garbage," "obscene," a "threat to American democracy," and 
constitute "pollution of the airwaves."  Such views "are not 
legitimate fare," and "have no place on the log of a reputable 
broadcaster."  Certain opinions (i.e., those opposed by the ADL) 
are not within the constitutional protection of freedom of speech.

The Chameleon Anti-Semitism

     The most favored and most devastating terms in the 
ADL's arsenal are "anti-Semitism" and its variants.  There is, of 
course, nothing worse than anti-Semitism.  It is the greatest evil in 
the history of the world, and it always "lurks just below the 
surface of Western civilization ready to burst forth in a new orgy 
of horror."  Just why it should lurk there- or even what it is- is 
rarely discussed, but all good folk must be "ever watchful for its 
slightest manifestation," and put before all else their efforts to 
stuff it back under the topsoil when it tries to break out.  It is a 
"deadly virus" which must, along with its carriers, be dealt with 
like an outbreak of typhoid.

     Likewise vague, and purposely so, is what constitutes 
anti-Semitism.  It is a wide net that catches many fish.  Even a Jew 
who says the wrong thing- such as Saul Joftes, for many years an 
officer of the B'nai B'rith, who said that Israel was controlling the 
ADL and the B'nai B'rith- is called an anti-Semite.  He is also a 
"sick individual" who has deteriorated as a result of "severe 
emotional problems."

     In order to make criticism of Zionism ineradicably 
disreputable, the ADL says that anybody other than a Zionist who 
uses the word "Zionist" is really using a code-word for Jew.  
Therefore any criticism of Zionism (including Israel, of course), is 
irrational and obscene and demonic, not to mention anti-Semitic.  
Furthermore, any criticism of Israel or the ADL is invariably 
reported by the ADL as "an attack on Israel [or the ADL] and on 
all Jews," even though there has been no reference direct or 
indirect to Jews.

     And no discussion of ADL vocabulary would be 
complete without mentioning the word for all seasons- "canard."  
A canard is a false or unfounded story, and any allegation or 
report which the ADL does not like is simply dubbed a "canard" 
and thus disposed of for all time without the need for analysis or 
discussion.

     It can be seen that to the ADL language is not so much a 
means of communication as a means of obfuscation, and that 
words are used to mislead, to put the truth out of focus, and to 
avoid confronting real issues.

The ADL Attempts to Stifle Freedom of Speech

     From the earliest years of its history, the ADL has 
revealed itself to be a self-anointed censor of what should reach 
the public consciousness in America.  One of its main fields of 
activity is the suppression of views it does not want heard, and, as 
such, it is the avowed enemy of freedom of speech.

     The favored method, where it is feasible, is called 
"quarantine."  It simply means that a person or group subject to 
quarantine is never heard of and never heard from.  What he says 
and does is not reported (except to the ADL), and what he writes 
is not published.  If he is engaged to speak by a club or college or 
broadcasting station, the ADL sees to it that the speech never takes 
place.  The sponsoring entity is subjected to telephone calls, 
threatening letters, and visits by delegations of local ADL and 
B'nai B'rith supporters.

     If quarantine works, then its victim is rendered, for all 
practical purposes, voiceless and unable to exert influence except 
in the most restricted sphere.  He is not even attacked.  He is a 
non-person.

     The concept of quarantine is quite openly discussed in 
ADL circles as an alternative to actively slandering its enemies.  
The Washington "Star" of February 10, 1965 reported that 
Herman Edelsberg, director of the ADL's Washington office, said 
that members of the "radical right" who could not be persuaded to 
change their views to conform with the ADL's dogmas should be 
dealt with by "keeping them in quarantine, until, from tedium, they 
drop out."

No Debate

     An organization that has been closely linked to the ADL 
in purpose and in fundraising, the American Jewish Committee, 
concluded in January, 1960, after a five-year study by Dr. Andhil 
Fineberg, that an opponent's statements should not be debated 
because debate would strengthen the opponent's ability to get 
attention.  Those who know him should "privately expose him to 
opinion molders."  Presumably one is exposed if he is called a 
hatemonger and an anti-Semite in the right private quarters.  It 
may be, however, that some genuine dirt can be dug up, in which 
case a wider audience is desirable: "... [P]ublicity can be effective 
where a bigot is concealing facts about himself." (Quoted in 
Joseph P. Kamp, "The Bigots Behind the Swastika Spree," 1960).

     A member of the audience at a so-called "Rumor Clinic" 
presented by Hyman Haves of the ADL's southern California 
office on February 1, 1950 in Santa Ana, California, reported 
some of the speaker's remarks in this manner:
     "Explaining the tactics of the League [ADL], Haves 
related instances wherein ADL representatives called on editors 
and radio station owners in cities where opponents were scheduled 
to speak.  he told how these editors and radio station operators 
were "enlightened and convinced" to give no publicity to the 
speakers.  He described this as the "quarantine or silent treatment" 
and said it was greatly reducing the audiences of the enemies of 
the league.
     "He said boastfully that many ADL opponents "have 
been cut down" by finding some embarrassing or unpleasant 
happening in their past and using it against them.  Haves said the 
league found the income of one particular enemy who paid income 
tax on only $11,000, to be actually $32,000, and said the ADL 
simply gathered the information and turned it over to the federal 
government.
     "You can call these tactics anything you want to," Haves 
commented.  "You can even say smear.  We prefer to say 
education."

Silent Treatment Technology

     A striking instance of the silent treatment technology is 
found in a letter, dated December 13, 1933, written beneath the 
letterhead of the Anti-Defamation League, Chicago, Illinois, by 
Richard E. Gutstadt, director.  The letter begins, "To the 
Publishers of Anglo-Jewish Periodicals,"
     "Gentlemen:
     "Scribner & Sons have just published a book by 
Madison Grant entitled "The Conquest of a Continent."  It is 
extremely antagonistic to Jewish interests.   Emphasized 
throughout is the "Nordic superiority" theory, and the utter 
negation of any "melting pot" philosophy with regard to America.
      "We are interested in stifling the sale of this book.  We 
believe that this can be best accomplished by refusing to be 
stampeded into giving it publicity.  Every review or public 
criticism of the book of this character brings it to the attention of 
many who would otherwise know nothing of it.  This results in 
added sales.  The less discussion there is concerning it, the more 
sales resistance will be created.
     "We therefore appeal to you to refrain from comment on 
this book, which will undoubtedly be brought to your attention 
sooner or later.  It is our conviction that a general compliance with 
this request will sound the warning to other publishing houses 
against engaging in this type of venture."

Iron Curtain Over America

     In 1955 ADL National Chairman Henry Schultz wrote on 
ADL stationary to Lt.-Gen. George E. Stratemeyer, complaining 
that the distinguished general had written a letter endorsing John 
O. Beaty's book, "Iron Curtain Over America," "and 
recommending it to Americans in general."  Schultz then went on 
to educate Gen. Stratemeyer about the book's author:
     "Professor Beaty if no newcomer to the field of anti-
Jewish propaganda.  As long ago as 1948 he was delivering anti-
Semitic lectures in the Southwest."

     Until the publication of "Iron Curtain Over America," 
Beaty was "irritating only in a local sense."  Now he was 
nationally known, and something had to be done about it. (Exactly 
what Prof. Beaty had said that was so objectionable was not 
revealed, of course, and the ADL did not "propose to burden" the 
general "at this point with our detailed analysis of the book...")
     
     The ADL's muscle man then put on the twist in typical 
heavyhanded, oblique fashion:
     "In view of the foregoing, it is our feeling that you may 
want to consider the advisability of some publication which can 
assure the American people, who hold you in such high regard, 
that you repudiate religious hatred, as we know you do, and the 
use of your name by Professor Beaty..."

     The renowned Air Force general responded, "I forcefully 
resent what you have said or implied,"  and stated, "I do not 
consider that book anti-Jewish in any sense of the word."  He 
continued:
     "When the United States of America reaches the point 
where a citizen cannot read what he desires to read and to 
recommend such reading to others then we will have reached the 
status that exists in Soviet Russia...As I interpret your letter, your 
organization would have the people read only what you think 
should be read and recommended to others.  This I resent as a free 
American citizen.
     "I do not understand what you mean by your statement, 
"we do not propose to burden you at this point, etc." Is this a 
veiled threat to my free expression and thoughts?  If so, this I also 
resent.
     "Your letter is the most outrageous communication I have 
ever received in my life and I intend to give it the widest possible 
publicity, including my many Jewish friends."

     A somewhat similar incident occurred in 1959, when Gen. 
Ulysses S. Grant III caused an article called "Abraham Lincoln 
and the Rothschilds" to be distributed to members of the Military 
Order of the Loyal Legion of the United States.  Herman 
Edelsberg of the Washington, D.C. office of the ADL wrote an 
insulting letter to Gen. Grant on June 19, 1959, claiming that he 
had lent his name "to a vile anti-Semitic canard" and "the 
fabrication of a warped mind."  Edelsberg dwelt in an 
uncomplimentary manner upon the alleged history of the article 
and its distributors, of course, rather than upon the factual content 
of the piece, which had to do with the role of international bankers 
in the American Civil War.  Edelsberg ordered the general to 
"speedily and fully repudiate" the publication.

     Gen. Grant replied indignantly with a defense of the 
historical accuracy of the article, and pointed out that it was only 
Edelsberg and the ADL who had given it "the anti-Jewish twist."
     "What "the international bankers" of Europe did a 
century ago to help the Confederacy cannot by any reasonable 
person be considered a reflection on the many, many good 
Americans who are Jews, and your efforts to make it seem so is 
difficult to understand."

     The ADL pressure continued, with great play in the 
newspapers- which tended, as is usually the case with newspapers, 
to adopt the ADL's language as their own and to describe the 
article flatly as "anti-Semitic."  There was much debate over 
whether the general had "apologized,"  but the apology was also 
an ADL fantasy, and the general never abandoned his guns.

Congressman Gets Treatment

     Congressman John G. Schmitz of California received the 
same kind of treatment in the summer of 1972, after he had written 
an introduction and endorsement to "None Dare Call It 
Conspiracy," by Gary Allen.  Mr. Allen, like the author of Gen. 
Grant's article, had spoken of "international bankers."  Harvey 
Schechter of the ADL sent a letter to Congressman Schmitz.
     "We were distressed to read your introduction to and 
endorsement of "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen, 
and we hereby call upon you to withdraw your endorsement and 
repudiate this anti-Semitic propaganda book."

     Congressman Schmitz published the ADL letter along 
with his own reply in the "Congressional Record" of June 19, 
1972.  He wrote to Schechter that Schechter's attack on him 
because of "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was "one of the most 
remarkable confirmations of the book's thesis that I have seen," in 
that Gary Allen had stated that the ADL was used "as an 
instrument to try to convince everyone that any mention of the 
Rothschilds or their allies is an attack on all Jews."

     Quoting from the book, Congressman Schmitz continued:
     "Any individual book exploring this subject is 
immediately attacked by hundreds of ADL committees all over the 
country.  The ADL has never let truth or logic interfere with its 
highly professional smear jobs.  When no evidence is apparent, 
the ADL, which staunchly opposed so-called 'McCarthyism,' 
accuses people of being 'latent anti-Semites'."
     "There is not a word in Gary Allen's book which could 
possibly be construed by any reasonable man as an attack on any 
religious faith."

     Among its other efforts on behalf of American 
democracy, the ADL attempted to get the Federal Communications 
Commission to prevent telephone companies from permitting the 
purveyors of certain ideas from using their recorded message 
services.  The group the ADL had specifically in mind had 
denounced the Peace Corps and (according to the ADL) called up 
"lurid visions of a 'communist conspiracy' lurking behind" various 
groups, including (surprise!) the ADL.  (Washington "Post," 
Sept. 9, 1965.)  A few years later the Supreme Court eventually 
thwarted a prolonged ADL effort to make the FCC take away the 
license of a radio station which had broadcast an "appeal to 
prejudice."  The ADL had refused a proffered opportunity to 
broadcast a reply:
     "A reply, said attorneys for the Jewish service 
organization, only focuses more attention upon a racial or 
religious slur, lending it more dignity."

     The same policy is no doubt useful if one just can't think 
of a good answer.

This is Liberty Lobby

     The longest and most intense campaign waged by the 
ADL against a specific group in many years is its continuing war 
to have the radio program, "This is Liberty Lobby," removed from 
the airwaves.  The ADL's enmity to Liberty Lobby stemmed 
originally from its general enmity to all nationalist, "rightist" 
elements in America.  The ever-increasing importance of Israel in 
the ADL program, running up against Liberty Lobby's outspoken 
advocacy of United States neutrality in the Middle East, as 
elsewhere abroad, precipitated the ADL "counteraction," as the 
instigators euphemistically called it.

     The entire matter is documented by materials, such as 
internal ADL letters and memoranda, uncovered during a 
subsequent lawsuit brought by Liberty Lobby.  The whole effort 
was carefully planned, organized, and coordinated at the ADL's 
national headquarters in New York.  Inquiries by Israeli officials 
in the United States played an important, and perhaps the leading 
role, in getting the counteraction underway.  Not surprisingly, 
some of the Israeli-ADL correspondence is missing from the 
materials the ADL was forced to produce during the Liberty 
Lobby lawsuit, and the one letter that got through was reproduced 
so poorly that most of it is illegible.  It is from the ADL, Boston, 
to the Israeli Consulate in Boston, and is dated December 24, 
1973.  The letter begins: "I appreciate your calling my attention to 
Liberty Lobby broadcast on [station call letters illegible], Boston."  
The letter continues for two more paragraphs, almost entirely 
illegible, beginning with the words, "I believe that you are aware of 
the fact that Liberty Lobby is..."  The words "editorial" and 
"bumper stickers" appear, giving clues of the general trend of the 
discussion.  Copies of the letter were sent to at least eight 
individuals, most or all of them ADL professional staff.

Form Letters

     Soon radio stations began receiving phone calls and 
letters of complaint from local people, most of whom (the radio 
station personnel reported) had apparently never heard the Liberty 
Lobby program.  The letters were almost always parrot renditions 
of language from ADL "kits" mailed out from New York to 
regional offices.

     Packets of "information" about Liberty Lobby were sent 
to radio stations, and there was an attempt to create the impression 
that numerous spontaneous complaints were being received about 
the program by the ADL offices.  Advertisers susceptible to ADL 
and B'nai B'rith influence threatened to withdraw, and in some 
cases actually did withdraw, their business from stations which 
would not cancel the Liberty Lobby broadcasts.

    



From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:30 PDT 1995
Article: 8896 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: White Paper on the ADL part 2 of 3
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:13:08 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 666
Message-ID: <441bgs$gll@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8896 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2792 alt.skinheads:3474 alt.politics.white-power:3846

     Meanwhile, as is easily proved by a review of the scripts
that were used, there was nothing even remotely anti-Semitic or 
similarly objectionable in the "This is Liberty Lobby" broadcasts, 
although there were occasionally comments on Israel.  In a letter 
of December 3, 1973, the chairman of a western broadcasting 
company wrote to Sheldon Steinhauser of ADL's Denver office 
referring to complaints about the Liberty Lobby program:
     "I must, however, in all candor say that upon listening to 
these programs I have never heard anything which could be 
classified as an attack upon the Jewish faith or our citizens of that 
national origin.
     "It is a rather abrasive attack upon foreign policy in the 
Near East.  It is not, in my opinion, at all different from any other 
highly controversial opinion, hence we have no intention of 
censoring it."

Courageous Broadcaster

     On January 16, 1975, an attorney from the Washington, 
D.C. law firm of Koteen & Burt, representing station WVOX, 
New Rochelle, New York, wrote to one Donald Flamm, who 
passed the letter on to the ADL.

     "Particularly over the course of the last year or so, a great 
deal of pressure has been brought to bear upon WVOX...by 
various people and organizations in an attempt to force it to drop 
"Liberty Lobby"...During the course of various inquiries about 
this program, I have reviewed numerous scripts to determine, 
among other things, whether it is being used as a vehicle for 
attacking various people and groups and whether, therefore, 
various requirements of the Federal Communications 
Commission's Fairness Doctrine come into play.  In no instance 
that has come to my attention have I found anything which is even 
superficially anti-Semitic."

     The attorney went on to say that a New York "Times" 
reporter who had done a story on the program had found nothing 
anti-Semitic in it, and that the station president, Bill 
O'Shaughnessy, "has become satisfied that those who actually 
bother to listen to the program have not found it to be anti-
Semitic."  The lawyer stated that the American Civil Liberties 
Union believed that attempts to remove the program from the air 
"represent a classic example of attempts to suppress freedom of 
speech."

     All broadcasters were not as courageous as 
O'Shaughnessy, who refused to buckle even though he was 
favored with menacing letters from ADL general counsel Arnold 
Forster personally.  According to an ADL memorandum, Howard 
Warshaw, president of Universal Broadcasting Company, New 
York, after having met with ADL staff and having been warned by 
them that "This is Liberty Lobby" was "anti-Semitic," ordered the 
general manager of WTHE (Mineola, Long Island) to listen to all 
Liberty Lobby programs in advance and to discuss any 
"questionable" material with him.  If any tape contained "the kind 
of anti-Semitic material contained in the specimens we reviewed" 
(i.e. criticisms of Israel and of potential U.S. involvement in a 
Middle East war) they would be pre-empted, or an older tape 
played.

     The memo, from Mel Cooperman to Harry Rosenkranz, 
January 10, 1974, concluded:
     "By the way, WTHE has carried, and will continue to 
carry every ADL "Report from Israel" program we send them, as 
they have for six years."

     On April 23, 1974, the ADL's Monroe Schlactus wrote to 
ADL's "director of domestic fact-finding," Irwin Suall, that he had 
been told that Howard Warshaw of Long Island "has begun to be 
most cooperative in killing the tapes even before we express 
concern."  It happened that Warshaw also owned station KUXL in 
Schlactus' Minnesota territory:
     "I would imagine that through Mel's contact with 
Warshaw, we may be able to preview all the Liberty Lobby tapes 
before their airing."

     A memorandum from Isadore Zack to Herman Brown, 
with copies to various ADL higher-ups, spread the following good 
news:
     "I understand from Sherm Keller of WRYT-Boston that 
his boss, Ken Carter, plans to audition the Liberty Lobby tapes 
before putting them on the air and will not use any program that 
mentions Israel in a derogatory way.  I am alerting our monitors to 
check this out."

Liberty Lobby Makes Comeback

     The massive ADL "counteraction" (fully documented in 
official documents procured through legal process) did result by 
1975 in the loss of many stations and the cancellation by the 
Mutual Network of its contract with Liberty Lobby to carry the 
program.  This reduced the total number of stations to 106.  
However, in spite of continuing ADL pressure, today (June, 1981) 
the program is carried on 470 stations, most of them as a free 
public service.  The program's point of view today is identical to 
what it was in 1975, which should say something about the 
increasing public acceptance of Liberty Lobby's pro-American 
outlook.

     In Liberty Lobby's files there is also documentary 
evidence that ADL agents have contacted advertisers in order to 
prevent them from placing ads in Liberty Lobby publications, and 
that ADL agents seek out contributors to Liberty Lobby and pay 
visits to their homes.  Even advertising agencies are put on the 
griddle:
     "For the record, I have received information that there is 
an advertising agency in Los Angeles which is handling the 
placing of Liberty Lobby's radio program on radio stations 
nationally...I have asked Harvey Schechter to undertake an 
investigation of this agency.
     -Memorandum from Irwin Suall (director of ADL's 
"Domestic Fact-finding Department") to Justin Finger, February 
14, 1974.

     "Talent" is not immune from persecution, either:  The 
same Harvey Schechter (of the ADL's Los Angeles regional 
office) who was to investigate Liberty Lobby's advertising agency 
was also hot on the trail of the famous announcer who introduced 
Liberty Lobby's radio programs.  Schechter wrote to Maxwell 
Greenberg on July 30, 1974:
     "I for one, am distressed at the fact that Liberty Lobby 
broadcasts begin with an opening comment by Harry von Zell...In 
view of his key position with Home Savings and Loan and the 
gutter anti-Semitism of the Liberty Lobby, I would like to suggest 
that a letter from you to him about this might further stimulate him 
to take action to deny Liberty Lobby the use of his voice."

     In an unrelated incident, a radio announcer named Allan 
E. Augustine was fired by WOKY, Milwaukee, after the ADL 
complained that Augustine had acted irresponsibly in interviewing 
two nazis on his talk show.

Union Saves Pilot's Job

     A final example of the ADL's tactics shows them at their 
most vile.  On April 3, 1978, Irwin Suall wrote to the management 
of Trans World Airlines (TWA):
     "I'm writing at the suggestion of Arnold Forster, who 
happens to be abroad at present, concerning Mr. ----, a TWA pilot 
who has managed to antagonize a large number of people in New 
Jersey."
     
     The letter went on to accuse the TWA pilot of writing 
letters-to-the-editor which were critical of "Jews, Zionism and 
Israel."  (In actual fact, the pilot had never criticized Jews.  He had, 
however, gone so far as to put an ad in a newspaper in which he 
placed, according to Suall, "the blame for the deaths in the March 
11th PLO raid on the Israelis.")
     "It so happens that a number of people apparently know 
that --- is a TWA pilot..., ---'s propaganda activities are apparently 
linked in their minds with TWA.
     "Mr. Foster felt that you would want to be informed 
about this matter and asked me, just before he left, to share the 
information with you and to convey to you his most cordial 
regards, I would be pleased to hear from you."

     At last report the pilot still has his job, although thanks 
more to his union and the Railroad Labor Act than to his 
employer, Cases of this kind come to the light of day only rarely; 
many a man has probably been dismissed at the behest of the 
ADL without ever knowing the real cause.

Represents A Foreign Nation

     No regular reader of the "ADL Bulletin" and other ADL 
publications and productions can doubt that the ADL's primary 
concern is the artificial nation of Israel.  The welfare of Israel is 
put above all else, certainly including the United States.  Visits to 
the United States by Israeli generals and politicians are given 
front-page coverage in such reverential tones as are reserved by 
Catholic newspapers for visits of the pope.  The pronouncements 
of Israeli leaders are published with obbligatos of adulation- 
except for a couple of times when Prime Minister Menachem 
Begin went so far in his cheerleading for Jewish influence in the 
U.S., and in his open calls for the Jewish lobby to get what Israel 
wanted, that the ADL feared people would realize that he was 
proving what the "anti-Semites" had been saying all along.

     The ADL tries to put the best appearances on everything 
Israel does, while the United States is judged as good or bad 
depending on the extent of its support for Israel.  The same goes 
for other countries:  The Soviet Union was enormously popular 
with Zionists until it interfered with emigration of Soviet Jews to 
Israel.  The Soviet Union then became a wicked and anti-Semitic 
country, and the U.S. was expected to dump ice on its dtente with 
the Soviets and prune its foreign policy accordingly.  And, of 
course, the most glaring example of distortion of American policy 
for Israel's benefit appears in the costly hostility of the United 
States toward the Arab countries- a policy totally opposed to 
America's true interests and existing entirely because of Israel's 
long-lasting war with its neighbors.

Israel the Only Issue

     There is one and only issue as far as the ADL is 
concerned - Israel.  If Israel tries to sink a ship of the United 
States Navy and murders 34 Americans in the process, the ADL 
prides itself on covering up the facts and explaining them away, 
while on the other hand anybody who ever killed an Israeli (even 
though his country is at war with Israel) is a despicable terrorist 
and bloodthirsty outlaw.  A careful distinction is made between 
those who are able to kill large numbers of civilians from airplanes 
(American supplied airplanes) and those who can afford only to 
kill smaller numbers on foot.

     The ADL never tires of telling us, and having us told, that 
because the population of the Jewish state is made up of an 
exceptional people unceasingly persecuted due to some 
ineradicable flaw in all non-Jews, the Israelis are exempt from the 
rules of human behavior and have a special license to steal other 
people's real estate, to kidnap anywhere in the world, to torture, to 
kill, to lie, to falsely accuse, and to interfere at will in the politics 
and social development of other countries.

     To justify and further the programs and aims of Israel is 
the primary mission of the ADL.  The organization is, of course, at 
one with the B'nai B'rith, with its large and highly manageable and 
influential system of professional lodges.  Especially significant 
are those lodges made up of highly placed people in the 
advertising, publishing, entertainment, and news fields.  It works in 
alliance with other groups that comprise the Israel lobby- such as 
the American Jewish Committee, whose Washington 
representative, Hyman Bookbinder, boasted in a public speech of 
the speed with which he had been able to assemble on the Capitol 
steps a display of American congressmen and senators in support 
of an Israeli government demand.

Sophisticated Intimidation

     As contrasted to the Jewish Defense League, which uses 
physical intimidation and overt violence while literally parading the 
Israeli flag within this country, the ADL deals primarily in 
propaganda and moral, political, and financial intimidation. It 
instigates, coordinates, places, and often writes, on behalf of Israel 
the avalanche of slanted news stories, editorials, magazine articles, 
television programs, cartoons, politicians' speeches, entries in the 
"Congressional Record," letters, and even motion pictures and 
novels, which- particularly at the time of some Israeli crisis or 
extensive Israeli demand on American leaders and taxpayers- 
smothers the United States.

     Once a rock has been started rolling downhill, one does 
not have to keep prodding it or the others it picks up along the 
way:  People know what is expected of them.  If they do not, they 
will be "sensitized," or perhaps even tenderized.  Event he standup 
comic knows that to defy the party line would be professional 
suicide.  Toward the end of the 1960's the ADL and its cohorts 
accuse Poland of "anti-Semitic" acts, (See, for example, entry by 
the ADL's congressman, Joshua Eilberg, in the July 16, 1968 
"Congressional Record") and lo, within days the insulting "Polish 
joke" was born, pounding home month after month the alleged 
stupidity of the Polish people who up to then had been treated as 
heroic defenders of freedom.  In such ways American attitudes are 
molded to the benefit of Israel and to the detriment of any group 
on Israel's hit list.

     The inconvenient fact that what helps Israel usually hurts 
the United States is handled by the ADL and similar organizations 
by the technique, proof of the intent of which is available in 
numerous publicly distributed recordings of their meetings, of 
trying to make Israeli interests appear identical to the interests of 
the United States and attractive to the American people.  "We are a 
minority too small to have our desired effect without the help of 
many others,"  goes the reasoning.  "we must therefore make other 
people identify our interests with theirs, and we must create the 
illusion that what is good for us is good for America."  By such 
sleight of hand, the tiger is led by the monkey, and a great and 
powerful nation is made to sacrifice its own welfare for the sake 
which has nothing to offer in return except the probability of 
involvement in nuclear war.

Foreign Agents Registration Act

     The Foreign Agents Registration Act, Title 22 U.S. Code 
611 et seq., provides criminal penalties for failure of 
propagandists and others active in this country on behalf of 
foreigners to file highly detailed registration statements with the 
Attorney General, to file copies of all political propaganda 
(however disguised or sugar-coated), and to label all such 
propaganda conspicuously, and to keep and reveal records of their 
activities.

     "Political propaganda" is defined by the act to include any 
"communication or expression by any person...which is 
reasonably adapted to, or which the person disseminating the same 
believes will, or which he intends to, prevail upon, indoctrinate, 
induce, or in any other way influence a recipient or any section of 
the public within the United States with reference to the political or 
public interests, policies, or relations of a government of a foreign 
country or a foreign political party or with reference to the foreign 
policies of the United States..."611(j).

     The same rules apply to "political activities" which in any 
way "influence any agency or official of the public within the 
United States with reference to formulating, adopting, or changing 
the domestic or foreign policies of the United States or with 
reference to the political or public interests, policies, or relations of 
a government of a foreign country or a foreign political party" 
611 (o).

     The Foreign Agents Registration Act is designed to 
include anyone "who directly or through any other person" carries 
on such activities and who acts as an agent, representative or "in 
any other capacity" at the order, request, or under the direction or 
control, or under the direct or indirect supervision, direction, 
control, or subsidization of a foreign principal 611(b).

     'There is absolutely no doubt that the ADL is operating in 
criminal violation of the Foreign Agents Registration Act; that its 
foreign principals include the government of Israel and its 
subdivisions, numerous Israeli Zionist groups such as the World 
Zionist Organization and the Jewish Agency and their fundraising 
branches within the United States; and that the ADL works in 
complicity with large numbers of equally guilty parties in the 
American communication media and the political arena.'

     It is the job of the U.S. Department of Justice to enforce 
the Foreign Agents Registration Act, (*) but while the department 
has exerted itself ordering American Protestant ministers to 
register as foreign agents because they arranged preaching and a 
few other public appearances for some clergymen of the Christian 
League of Southern Africa, ('Washington Weekly', Oct. 5, 1978) it 
has been curiously paralyzed when it comes to pursuing the ADL 
and its huge network of coordinated Israeli agents.

     (*)  [Title 50, 851-858 contains additional provisions for 
registration of foreign agents with the Attorney General.  These 
sections are applicable to "every person who has knowledge of" 
espionage, tactics or terrorism of "a government of a foreign 
country..." it stretches the imagination to assume that ADL 
officers are not fully aware of the activities of the terrorist 
organization known as the Jewish Defense League, an open agent 
of Israel which provocatively flies the Israeli flag during its 
demonstrations against "enemies of Israel."  No one can miss the 
perfect orchestration of ADL and JDL activities.  It is commonly 
believed that both agencies are manipulated by the efficient Israeli 
espionage and terrorist are, the Mossad.]

Easy To Document

     Documentation of the ADL's actions as an agent of Israel 
is neither rare nor difficult to come by.  Indeed, it is almost 
impossible to encompass its scope in a paper of this length.  The 
examples that follow are a fair selection from among thousands.

     First, there is no question that Israel, which could never 
have existed financially, militarily, or otherwise without the 
constant support of the United States, wishes to exert all possible 
influence on this country and to draw all possible sustenance from 
it, while preventing any aid or support by the United States going 
to countries on Israel's enemies list, and in particular to the Arab 
countries from which Israel hacked out its territory.  The World 
Zionist Organization and the Jewish Agency are specifically 
designed to be the Israeli government's overseas arms.  Even 
though purposely not made branches of the government, the 
status, function, and authority of the WZO and the Jewish Agency 
are set forth in Israeli law.  Among their goals are to organize 
Jewish communities outside Israel to serve Zionist purposes, to 
spread propaganda, to see that money is collected (almost always 
to tax-exempt "charitable" organizations) and channeled to Israel, 
to encourage immigration into Israel, and to influence various 
governments to formulate foreign policy to pass laws which favor 
Israel.

     Most of the Israeli aims in the United States are 
spearheaded by the ADL, with other Zionist-oriented groups such 
as the American Jewish Committee playing important roles.  The 
WZO and the Jewish Agency keep a low profile, while the ADL 
poses as an American organization serving American Jewish aims, 
though in reality honing its activities to serve Israel on every point.

     When Arab countries organized a boycott of Israel, the 
ADL openly led the fight to have anti-boycott legislation passed in 
the U.S., took measures to see that American businesses were 
trading with Israel under the anti-boycott laws, and even acted on 
Israel's behalf as regarded Japan's cooperation with the Arab 
boycott.
     "The Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish organization, has 
long been bothered by the Japanese reaction to the boycott.  For 
years, the organization has been trying on its own to persuade the 
Japanese to change their policy.  Now, evidently wearying of these 
efforts, Anti-Defamation League officials are seeking the aid of 
American corporations."
-The Wall Street Journal, May 13, 1968

     On March 4, 1975, the New York Times reported that:
"The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith has written to 
President Ford reporting what it calls a concerted campaign 
among shipping companies, aided and abetted by American 
commercial banks unlawfully to comply with the Arab boycott 
regulations against the state of Israel."

     Since 1966, the ADL has produced a radio program 
called "Dateline Israel," some 26 new programs each year, 
broadcast over hundreds of stations, which consists entirely of 
Israeli propaganda.  Prominent in the origins and production of 
"Dateline Israel" was ADL general counsel Arnold Forster, who 
was reported in the May, 1974 "ADL Bulletin" to have been to 
Israel more than 50 times.

Forster Writes Letters

     Forster, among his other achievements on behalf of a 
foreign state, wrote seemingly innumerable letters (always 
published, of course) to the editors of major newspapers on 
subjects having exclusively to do with Israel and the protection or 
furtherance of Israeli interest.  Every public criticism of Israel was 
met with a thundering defense.  Every Israeli policy was dolled up 
as a glamorous boon to American interests.  every hint of 
cooperation with Arab countries by the U.S. was depicted as a 
dark collaboration with the forces of evil.

     In 1973 the ADL took out full-page newspaper 
advertisements whose message was that Arab oil-producing 
countries were greedy and that any change in the Mideast policy 
of the United States that might please the Arabs would not 
improve the American oil situation.  The ads were designed to 
influence public opinion to ignore the obvious- that the oil cut-off 
by the Arabs had been a direct response to the United States 
mindlessly and illogically supporting Israel in an aggressive war 
against Arab countries.

     "Maariv," published in Tel Aviv, Israel, reported (Jan 14, 
1969) that the ADL in the United States had made a study of Arab 
"propaganda" against Israel, and had concluded that the center of 
export of such propaganda to America was Beirut, Lebanon.  
Arnold Forster was in charge of the ADL study.
     "Mr. Foster [sic], who is now in Israel as one of the 
representatives of the Jewish organizations to the conference 
called by the prime minister, said that the Arabs have discovered 
the best way to lie is from a distance."

     For the ADL, there is obviously one overriding issue- 
Israel - and old allies who don't agree become 'persona non grata'.  
ADL Chairman Kenneth Bialkin, in a New York "Times" item 
(Aug. 19, 1979), said that "some black leaders have become 
persuaded by new left propaganda and have taken up with the 
worst of pro-Arab, anti-Israeli elements."  Bailkin called such 
blacks "troublemakers."

Bigoted Extremists

     A couple of years earlier, when black American workers 
wanted to comply with the Arab boycott of Israel, the ADL said 
that a coalition, including blacks who said they would be the first 
to lose their jobs if Arabs withdrew their business, involved 
"bigoted extremists" linked to "anti-Semitism" - a good example 
of name-calling when logic would lose the day.

     When the executive committee of the B'nai B'rith 
International Council met in 1960, the president concluded: 
"Positive action by the Jewish communities should be taken to 
combat Arab League propaganda,"  and " a program of counter-
action to deal with the Arab League should be considered."  
("Summary-Minutes, B'nai B'rith International Council, Executive 
Committee Meeting January 26-27, 1960, Amsterdam, 
Netherlands.")

     The B'nai B'rith, swearing that it is strictly a religious, 
charitable, and welfare organization, has taken an active role in 
getting funds from Germany as compensation or reparation to 
Jews who claimed to have been unjustly damaged by Hitler's 
government.  A revealing insight into the procedure is offered by a 
B'nai B'rith "Memorandum to Members of the Board of 
Governors from Maurice Bisguer" (Feb. 17, 1960): "In 
accordance with the claims agreement resulting from West 
German B'nai B'rith negotiations, the predominant amount of 
funds is to be reserved for Israel."

     A typical issue of the "ADL Bulletin" would appear to 
have been conceived and composed in an Israeli information 
office.  The June, 1980 issue, for example, which happens to 
contain an uncomplimentary article about Liberty Lobby, begins 
with an article by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (who 
is pictured receiving an award form the ADL) entitled "The 
Middle East."  With subheads such as "No Negotiations with 
PLO," it contains nothing even remotely displeasing to Israel, and 
lest we miss its real point, the following words are emphasized by 
being printed in a shaded rectangle: "While in office and after, I 
never believed and I do not believe now that the solution to the 
West Bank problem can be the creation of a Palestinian state."

Oil Is Menace

     Inside the front cover of the same issue is a comment by 
ADL national director, Nathan Perlmutter.  Leading off with the 
news that anti-Semitism, "as we have customarily measured it," 
has been declining, he says that the greatest danger "to us" is oil 
because nations which want oil from the Arabs are snuggling up 
to the PLO, and, "in the hapless balance is Israel."

     There follows a long, illustrated article on a trip to Israel 
by M. S. Forbes, editor-in-chief of "Forbes" business magazine, a 
trip which had been suggested and arranged by the ADL.
     "He went at the suggestion of Maxwell E. Greenberg, the 
Anti-Defamation League's national chairman, and Abraham H. 
Foxman, its associate national director, following a dispute 
between the ADL and "Forbes" editors over rejection of a league 
ad on peace in the Middle East which had been submitted for the 
"Forbes" annual Arabic Middle East edition.  ADL felt the ad had 
been rejected because the magazine feared offending the Arabs..."

     So the ADL officers, suggesting "that a Forbes trip to 
Israel was long overdue," met Mr. Forbes in that Middles Eastern 
nation, introduced him to the right people in government, the 
military, and business, and showed him the country.  Mr. Forbes, 
of course, loved Israel and the Israeli leaders, on whom he 
bestowed such accolades as "sharp, incisive,"  "perceptive, candid, 
with good judgments,"  "able, impressive" and "Oh, fabulous."  
Mr. Forbes likened America to Israel and had nasty things to say 
about the PLO.

     The next article in the June 1980 "ADL Bulletin" was 
entitled "PLO/Khomeini Connection."  It dealt with the cordial 
relations between the PLO and the ever-unpopular ayatollah, and 
concluded that both "share the goal of destroying Israel," and that 
"to give them power is to whet their appetites, increasing their lust 
for destruction."  (Shades of Adolf.)

Vanessa Redgrave's Trouble

     The actress Vanessa Redrave narrated a film called "The 
Palestinian," which, although few who criticized it has actually 
seen it, outraged the ADL because it was reportedly anti-Israel and 
contained an interview with the head of the PLO.  There were 
vigorous efforts to prevent the documentary from being seen in 
the U.S., and to ruin Vanessa Redgrave's acting career.  Arnold 
Forster said on behalf of the ADL that to advocate the overthrow 
of Israel was "the ultimate anti-Semitism."  Miss Redgrave 
commented:
     "The American public cherishes its right to information 
and to form its own opinions.  It should not be abrogated into the 
hands of a minority of fanatical Zionists who want to destroy the 
Palestine Liberation Organizations and lie about its aims." - Los 
Angeles Times, January 18, 1978

     In a pitch letter to ADL supporters on November 10, 
1975, Dore Schary listed as examples of the ADL's good work: 
Suing the U.S. to thwart the Arab boycott of Israel, exposing the 
collusion of other groups with the Arab boycott of Israel, and 
persuading the Gulf Oil Company to repudiate and publicly 
declare that it will never again repeat a contribution to "the Arab 
propaganda campaign" against Israel.  Next on the agenda:  "The 
recent vote in the United Nations attacking Zionism as 'racism'..."

     When President Jimmy Carter compared the Palestinian 
movement (to return to the farms and homes that had been taken 
by Israel) to the U.S. civil rights cause, spokesmen for the ADL 
called the comparison "insulting," and "frightening."  Arnold 
Forster exercised his gift for meaningless semantic 
smokescreening by calling the PLO "False revolutionaries" and 
"murderers"  (Washington "Post," Aug. 3. 1979).

     On January 9, 1981, the ADL's headquarters publicly 
distributed, under the label, "News," a report called "World-Views 
and Middle East Policy,"  by Kenneth Jacobsen, which compared 
the probable Middle East policy of the incoming Reagan 
administration.  The entire discussion centers on the relative 
benefits to Israel which would result from the different policies.  
Carter, the report said, had seen Third-World nations (read Arabs) 
as essentially neutral, and to be won over through "friendly" 
approaches, which meant that the "U.S. would downplay Israel as 
a strategic interest, would see the Palestinian issue as the central 
problem in the Middle East, and would make periodic overtures to 
the PLO."  (Not good.)  Reagan, on the other hand, would bring 
with him those who would see both the Soviet threat and an Arab 
oil threat. (Good.) By convoluted and illogical arguments, 
Jacobsen comes to the conclusion that the U.S. has shown 
"unnecessary obsequiousness to the Arab world,"  and that the 
best way for America to meet the oil problem is to join more 
closely with Israel in its hostility to the Arab nations.

     'With this new approach, there will be no hesitancy to 
support Israel as clearly America's most reliable ally and to 
identify Israel as a strategic asset to the U.S.'

     Many more examples could be cited to prove that the 
ADL, day after day, year after year, works within the United States 
as an agent in the service of a foreign nation.  Not only are such 
political activities a violation of the Foreign Agents' Registration 
Act, but also disqualify the ADL from its tax-exempt status.

Conclusion

     A suffocating atmosphere of threat, extortion, blackmail, 
character assassination, and falsehood hangs over the activities of 
the ADL.  It is an atmosphere deliberately poisonous of freedom 
hangs over the activities of the ADL.  It is an atmosphere 
deliberately poisonous of freedom of speech and thought, 
designedly stifling of the open exchange of ideas, and contrary to 
the provisions of the Constitution and to the most important 
considerations that motivated the American revolutionaries to 
create a new and independent nation in the first place.

     The ADL is alien in concept and subversive in operation.  
It is unethical, un-American and illegal.  It operates as a thought 
police, smearbund, and intimidation mafia using traditional 
American institutions and gullible citizens to further the foreign 
policy aims of a foreign nation and the political power of political 
Zionism and individual Zionists.  Its "chutzpah" cannot be 
excused, nor can the actions or inaction of Americans who know 
of its outrages but, because of fear, fail to fight them.  Nothing can 
be more important today than to expose and contain this evil force.  
Nothing less than the safety of all Americans is at stake today as 
irresponsible Zionists play Russian roulette with a world nuclear 
holocaust.
-----

       For more information on the extent of the alien and anti-
American activities of Zionists in Ameirca order:
 
       "America the Conquered"  
        by Pastor Pete Peters
  available for an $8.00 offering from:
        Scriptures for America
            P.O. Box 766-c
       LaPorte, Colorado  80535

-----------------------------------------
Get the "Identity.faq" and many other files by
anonymous FTP from:    ftp.netcom.com /pub/SF/SFA
-------------------------------------------------


From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:31 PDT 1995
Article: 8897 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.skinheads,alt.politics.white-power
Subject: White Paper on the ADL Part 3 of 3
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:14:06 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 148
Message-ID: <441bih$gll@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8897 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2793 alt.skinheads:3475 alt.politics.white-power:3847


Vanessa Redgrave's Trouble

     The actress Vanessa Redrave narrated a film called "The 
Palestinian," which, although few who criticized it has actually 
seen it, outraged the ADL because it was reportedly anti-Israel and 
contained an interview with the head of the PLO.  There were 
vigorous efforts to prevent the documentary from being seen in 
the U.S., and to ruin Vanessa Redgrave's acting career.  Arnold 
Forster said on behalf of the ADL that to advocate the overthrow 
of Israel was "the ultimate anti-Semitism."  Miss Redgrave 
commented:
     "The American public cherishes its right to information 
and to form its own opinions.  It should not be abrogated into the 
hands of a minority of fanatical Zionists who want to destroy the 
Palestine Liberation Organizations and lie about its aims." - Los 
Angeles Times, January 18, 1978

     In a pitch letter to ADL supporters on November 10, 
1975, Dore Schary listed as examples of the ADL's good work: 
Suing the U.S. to thwart the Arab boycott of Israel, exposing the 
collusion of other groups with the Arab boycott of Israel, and 
persuading the Gulf Oil Company to repudiate and publicly 
declare that it will never again repeat a contribution to "the Arab 
propaganda campaign" against Israel.  Next on the agenda:  "The 
recent vote in the United Nations attacking Zionism as 'racism'..."

     When President Jimmy Carter compared the Palestinian 
movement (to return to the farms and homes that had been taken 
by Israel) to the U.S. civil rights cause, spokesmen for the ADL 
called the comparison "insulting," and "frightening."  Arnold 
Forster exercised his gift for meaningless semantic 
smokescreening by calling the PLO "False revolutionaries" and 
"murderers"  (Washington "Post," Aug. 3. 1979).

     On January 9, 1981, the ADL's headquarters publicly 
distributed, under the label, "News," a report called "World-Views 
and Middle East Policy,"  by Kenneth Jacobsen, which compared 
the probable Middle East policy of the incoming Reagan 
administration.  The entire discussion centers on the relative 
benefits to Israel which would result from the different policies.  
Carter, the report said, had seen Third-World nations (read Arabs) 
as essentially neutral, and to be won over through "friendly" 
approaches, which meant that the "U.S. would downplay Israel as 
a strategic interest, would see the Palestinian issue as the central 
problem in the Middle East, and would make periodic overtures to 
the PLO."  (Not good.)  Reagan, on the other hand, would bring 
with him those who would see both the Soviet threat and an Arab 
oil threat. (Good.) By convoluted and illogical arguments, 
Jacobsen comes to the conclusion that the U.S. has shown 
"unnecessary obsequiousness to the Arab world,"  and that the 
best way for America to meet the oil problem is to join more 
closely with Israel in its hostility to the Arab nations.

     'With this new approach, there will be no hesitancy to 
support Israel as clearly America's most reliable ally and to 
identify Israel as a strategic asset to the U.S.'

     Many more examples could be cited to prove that the 
ADL, day after day, year after year, works within the United States 
as an agent in the service of a foreign nation.  Not only are such 
political activities a violation of the Foreign Agents' Registration 
Act, but also disqualify the ADL from its tax-exempt status.

Conclusion

     A suffocating atmosphere of threat, extortion, blackmail, 
character assassination, and falsehood hangs over the activities of 
the ADL.  It is an atmosphere deliberately poisonous of freedom 
hangs over the activities of the ADL.  It is an atmosphere 
deliberately poisonous of freedom of speech and thought, 
designedly stifling of the open exchange of ideas, and contrary to 
the provisions of the Constitution and to the most important 
considerations that motivated the American revolutionaries to 
create a new and independent nation in the first place.

     The ADL is alien in concept and subversive in operation.  
It is unethical, un-American and illegal.  It operates as a thought 
police, smearbund, and intimidation mafia using traditional 
American institutions and gullible citizens to further the foreign 
policy aims of a foreign nation and the political power of political 
Zionism and individual Zionists.  Its "chutzpah" cannot be 
excused, nor can the actions or inaction of Americans who know 
of its outrages but, because of fear, fail to fight them.  Nothing can 
be more important today than to expose and contain this evil force.  
Nothing less than the safety of all Americans is at stake today as 
irresponsible Zionists play Russian roulette with a world nuclear 
holocaust.
-----

       For more information on the extent of the alien and anti-
American activities of Zionists in Ameirca order:
 
       "America the Conquered"  
        by Pastor Pete Peters
  available for an $8.00 offering from:
        Scriptures for America
            P.O. Box 766-c
       LaPorte, Colorado  80535

-----------------------------------------
Get the "Identity.faq" and many other files by
anonymous FTP from:    ftp.netcom.com /pub/SF/SFA
-------------------------------------------------


From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:32 PDT 1995
Article: 8898 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists...  EXPOSED...
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:16:50 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 178
Message-ID: <441bnl$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> <60.11529.4662.0N1F1CB7@canrem.com> <4244l5$l6@inforamp.net> <4256at$msl@linet02.li.net> <42jgos$al7@inforamp.net>    <43p0od$9v8@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:52360 alt.discrimination:35889 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2794 alt.politics.white-power:3848 alt.revisionism:8898

>In article <43p0od$9v8@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> ... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist 
>> terrorism
>
>[Lemire's selective trivia deleted]
>
>> Well that should change your mind about who the real terrorists are.
>
>Nope. 
>


Then I guess you don't like facts.

I'll repost it again here for you, to reconsider.

From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination
Subject: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists...  EXPOSED...


>HAPLO (haplo@idirect.com) wrote:

>: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the
>: police?
>: >
>
>:     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking
>: the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and
>: people.
>
>
>    Oh PLEASE may I see some documentation on these numerous attacks on Homes
>    and people?

... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist
terrorism


- IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be creative!
These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run by
Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto

-Toronto Sun July 21, 1995  "Cops scurry to get handle on bombers....
Anti-Fascist Militia a riddle"

-Toronto Sun July 27, 1995 "Terrorists 'prepared to kill' (About mail bomb
being send to right wingers and racists)

-Toronto Star July 28, 1995  "B.C. group says it sent letter bombs" reguarding
the letter bombs being send to Ernst Zundel and others

-This magazine Nov 1994 issue "I hate you back" by Clive Thompson.  About
Anti-Racist Action become very violent

-Globe and Mail July 27, 1995.  "Group reveals why it mailed bombs"  about the
mail bombs to Zundel and Aryan Nations

-Globe and Mail Feb 10, 1995.  "Anti-Racist movement grows more violent" by
John Barber

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1981 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US.  They claim Jewish groups have committed 29 terrorist incidents
>from  1977 to 1981.

-Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist incidents
in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts that
year.

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing of
Ernst Zundel's house

-Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
Holocaust-denier Zundel"

-Montreal Gazette, May 9, 1995  "Police hunt Zundel arsonist" about
firebombing of his house

-Rochester Democrat & Chronicle May 8, 1995  "Neo-Nazi's house burns"  About
the Zundel house firebombing

-Globe and Mail May 22, 1995  "Police explode parcel bomb mailed to Zundel
last week"  About the letter bombs he recieved in the mail by Anti-Facist
militia

-Now Magazine May 18-24, 1995.  "JDL pays visit to Zundel Fortress"  about Irv
Rubin of the Jewish Defence League trying to hop over Zundel's wooden
baracade.

-Edmonton Sunday Sun, May 21, 1995.  "Zundel cheats death"  FRONT PAGE STORY
about the pipe bombg mailed to Zundel

-Toronto Sun,  Feb 8, 1995.  "Heritage Front Targeted"  About a crazy
leftist/ARA person who had a stolen crossbow, .357 ammunition, bomb-making
books and the ingredients to make one.  This person also had a list of
Heritage Front members homes and licence plates.

-Toronto Sun Dec 24, 1992  "Jewish Radicals in Metro"  Refering to the new
Jewish Defence league chapter opening in Toronto.  In the article the JDL says
that they are here to "Strike terror into the hearts of Neo-Nazi's"

-Toronto Sun March 15, 1978 "Zionist fanatics stalk hated enemy".  In the
article he quotes these Jews as saying ... there is "No shame in killing for
Israel"

-Toronto Sun July 25, 1995  "Left looks away from terror"  By Jewish Toronto
Sun reporter Lorrie Goldstein.  He tells a scary tale of leftist violence in
Canada

-Toronto Sun May 9, 1995  "The damage comes from the Left"  Talks about the
past year of leftist terrorism.

-The Book "Cheif"  by New York crime detective Albert A. Seedman.  In his book
he talks about the JDL making bombs on the same floor where JDL founder Kahane
worked.

-Toronto Sun Feb 5, 1995  "Anti-Racist mob 3"  talks about ARA types jumping
3 skinheads who they thought were Nazi's.  The paper says that the leftists
began "harrassing, taunting and intimidating" these three people who they
thought were Nazi's.  The leftists hit one of the suspected Nazi's over the
head with a steel pipe.  The leftists also had 18 people to the 3 suspected
Nazi's.

-The Outlook, May 28, 1994  "Former SF policeman enters no-contest plea in
surveillance case"  Talks about the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defimation league
illegially spying of right-Wing activists and Skinheads.

-North Shore News, May 19, 1993  "Jackboots of the Left stomping on freedom"
By Doug Collins

-Toronto Star, June 12, 1993  "Anti-Racist mob trashes home"  This is when the
ARA marched and trashed the home of Gary Schipper, who was the voice of the
Heritage Hotline.  In that attack they caused aroUND $80,000 DAMAGE

-Toronto Sun July 15, 1995.  "Terror cell targeting far right.... bomb mailed
to T.O. Firm linked to 4 month campain"  This article is about the group that
was mailing letter bombs to right-wing activists like Ernst Zundel and the
Aryan Nations.

-The Zionist Terror Network.... background and operations of the Jewish
Defence League.  Written by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR)

-Penthouse.  "Never Again Jewish Zealots train for combat...  Twenty years
ago, Rabbi Meir Kahane founded the JDL.. Today, its younger leaders have taken
it to extremes even he deplores"

-New York Post, Sept, 1985.  "JDL owns up to bloody bombing at "Nazi" home"

-New York Post, May 9, 1987.  "JDL honcho seized in Opera bombing"

-Toronto Sun June 26, 1981.  "Anti-Jewish group bombed"  This is about the
fire at the IHR which caused around a MILLION dollar damage

-Newsday, Nov 9 1985.  "FBI blames JDL in 3 blasts"

From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:33 PDT 1995
Article: 8899 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: Zundel's 'UFO Pictures' (GIF picture of Zundels house.  Number
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:21:47 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <441c0t$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43u491$9fl@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8899 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2795 alt.politics.white-power:3849 alt.skinheads:3476

>I have here an article written by Zundel, about this thing
>with the "UFO Base in the South-pole". In it, there's a 
>photograph which Zundel captioned "A German UFO control 
>bunker". 
>
>Do you believe this photograph is authentic?
>


Well.  please post the picture here, so we can look at it.



Marc






From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:34 PDT 1995
Article: 8902 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.politics
Subject: Re: More of Ghandi's non-stop drivil
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:09:48 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 247
Message-ID: <441er0$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43ttn0$883@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8902 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2796 alt.politics.white-power:3852 alt.skinheads:3478 can.general:51897 can.politics:4475

>Little man, you made the claim that Zunel's political agenda specifically
>show how there are violent leftist and jewish groups. I agreed that there
>are such groups exist in abundance, but I asked for evidence regarding
>your correlation of these groups with the UFO man.
>
>> > The point is... He was attached due to his political beliefs.  Which in a 
>> > "Free" society is completly wrong and shows how violent some Jewish
>> groups and 
>> > the Leftist groups are.
>
>In article <43ttn0$883@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> 
>> ... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist
>> terrorism
>> 
>> 
>> - IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be 
creative!
>> These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run 
by
>> Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto
>
>And this advocates violence against Zundel how?

The ARA has for a long time now been Tragatting Zundel.

Here is another example from there WWW site.
START
---------------------------------------------------------
STOP ZUNDEL!

Who Is Ernst Zundel?

     Ernst Christof Friedrich Zundel, a 54-year old native to West
Germany, emigrated to Canada in 1958. Settling in Toronto, he set
up a base of operations, involving himself more within fascist
circles as his major efforts became devoted to proving that the
Holocaust was a hoax.
     Most people remember Ernst Zundel from his run-ins with the
courts throughout the 1980s, surrounding his production and
distribution of materials denying the Holocaust. From a fascist
viewpoint, the importance of Holocaust denial is that the Holocaust
itself is the main obstacle to the acceptance of fascist ideas
within the dominant society. Pamphlets such as "Did Six Million
Really Die?" and the "Leuchter Report" denied the existence of the
gas chambers and claimed that the deaths of Jews, Gypsies, Lesbians
and Gays, disabled people, sex-trade workers, and Communists in the
gas chambers was a Jewish-propagated hoax to extract West German
reparations for Israel. A four-page pamphlet written by Zundel
entitled "The West, War and Islam" claims that Zionists,
freemasons, bankers, and communists are joined in an international
conspiracy against Islamic states. He was originally charged under
Section 177 of the Criminal Code (knowingly spreading false news)
for publishing false information about the holocaust, leading to
his conviction in Jan/85, entailing a sentence of 15 months in
jail. A month later, he was let off on a property bail and in 1987
his charge was overturned by the Ontario Court of Appeal. At his
retrial in 1988, Zundel paid his experts to testify for him, hereby
creating a battle over the question of the Holocaust while
shielding himself from testifying. After a lengthy show-trial and
a series of appeals, the Supreme Court dismissed charges against
him on August 27, 1992. Following this verdict, he stated he would
continue to spread his view that the murder of six million Jews in
Nazi-camps in WWII never happened. 
     These trials placed the Holocaust itself on trial and
sidetracked the liberal community into the freedom-of-speech issue.
Zundel used them to promote his propaganda and play out his 'court
theatre' in the international spotlight. Zundel claimed a massive
victory for the white-supremacist movement, and since then he has
continued his hate-mongering virtually unhampered.

What He Does...

     Ernst Zundel is a key player in the growing international neo-
nazi movement. Following a pipe-bomb attack on his car in 1984, he
turned his house into a virtual fortress, complete with video
cameras and super-sensitive microphones. Operating from this bunker
at 206 Carlton here in Toronto, Zundel runs one of the largest neo-
nazi propaganda operations in the world providing fascist movements
around the globe with a steady flow of information, particularly
in Germany where it is harder to obtain illegal nazi-publications.
By 1980, Zundel claimed to mail his fascist material to forty-five
countries and in fourteen languages. Alongside his service
'Samisdat Publishing Ltd,' Zundel also runs shortwave radio
broadcasts in the U.S. and in Germany. He produces his own
television show produced and filmed here and beamed from the U.S.
by Teleport Denver Ltd. via Galaxy 3, available to anyone with a
satellite dish in North America. He has produced upwards of 50
videos on subjects such as 'revisionist' perspectives on the WWII
and the holocaust, featuring the likes of David Irving and Zundel's
defense lawyer, Doug Christie. Zundel funnels over $600,000 (CAN)
in funds a year to Germany alone to pay for fascist information
campaigns, speaking tours and to help start up budding neo-nazi
skinhead groups. Ernst Zundel has provided the fuel which has in
part, led to the fire-attacks on refugee centres and countless
murders of the so-called enemies of the white race. According to
German authorities, the bulk of material seized in raids on nazi-
hideouts has come from Canada.

Who He Works With...

     The fascists at home and abroad look to this self-proclaimed
'guru' of the far-right as a hero, dedicated to their cause. Zundel
travelled to Germany five times in 1989 and today holds together
his strong ties with the fascist movement abroad. His public
relations man in Germany, Ewald Althans, received regular financial
donations from Zundel to finance his centre of operations and
recruitment drives. Zundel also has strong ties with Christian
Worch, a prominent neo-Nazi organizer who assisted in the co-
ordination of fascist assaults on the refugee centre in Rostock.
     These are only two examples of the countless links which
Zundel has forged with fascist organizers in Europe. Here in
Canada, Zundel has publicly disavowed the efforts of the Ku Klux
Klan, instead opting for the concepts of more violent groups such
as the Church of the Creator (COTC) to advance the movement he
envisions and builds towards in the 90's.

Zundel's Gotta Go!!

     On November 24, 1993, Anti-Racist Action called for a
demonstration, targeting Zundel's bunker on Carlton Street. Over
300 officers on foot including the Public Order Unit, Emergency
Task Force, and upwards of 20 undercover cops were on the scene,
surrounding the crowd of 150 anti-racists. Following a few speeches
and several paint and egg attacks on Zundel's house, the police
moved in, breaking up the crowd and brutalizing demonstrators.
Several ARA activists and supporters were arrested, including a
reporter from a community radio station. Zundel somehow got
rewarded with this massive show of police protection for which
Metro spent an estimated $200,000!! This gives some idea as to how
far the Canadian state will go to defend and harbour this neo-nazi
propagandist.

Shut Down Zundel's Hate-Quarters!

     Ernst Zundel has been operating in our city unchecked for too
long. His financial enterprises and information campaigns have
provided the rising neo-Nazi movement with an extremely strong
brace with which it exerts its 'opinions and views' through terror
and violence against its enemies. The lack of action on behalf of
the courts has not only allowed Zundel to continue his operations,
it has made him look invincible in the face of opposition. It's
time to end the charade and bring the curtains down on his
operation. It's time for community action.
     For those who are concerned about the rise of fascism in
Europe and its implications in Canada, the best kind of solidarity
we can offer at the present time is by advancing the campaign to
shut Ernst Zundel's hate-quarters down and show him that he hasn't
won the battle yet!

What You Can Do

     If we are to shut down Zundel we need your help in the
following areas:

- Research and identify all sources of support and suppliers of
Zundel's work.

- Spread the word. Contact ARA for an info package on Zundel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
END


These were distributed around the area where Zundel lives.

The ARA also made up posters showing Mr. Zundel in the crosshairs of a gun, 
his address and a diagram of how to make a Firebomb.

Coinsidence that his house was firbombed months later????



> -Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing of
>> Ernst Zundel's house
>
>Oh me oh my, little man. Are you still flogging this article? There is no
>verification of anything said in this article regarding the responsibility
>for the so called arson.

It does show that violence is being used against Mr. Zundel.



>> -Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
>> Holocaust-denier Zundel"
>
>This shows that there is a leftist/jewish group attacking Zundel how? Show
>me in this article where it conclusively says that the actions of the
>arsonist were not that of a single person.

It shows that violence is being used against Mr. Zundel.  Just as it was meant 
to show.  

{GHandi's crap deleted} 

>> -Now Magazine May 18-24, 1995.  "JDL pays visit to Zundel Fortress"  about 
Irv
>> Rubin of the Jewish Defence League trying to hop over Zundel's wooden
>> baracade.
>
>This shows that there is a leftist/jewish group attacking Zundel how? By
>committing trespass?


You call hopping over a 10 foot baracade... just trespassing???

At the very least, the JDL was trying to intimidate and harass Mr. Zundel

{Ghandi's crap deleted}

>>> there is no direct connection between Zundel and the violent nature that
>>> you claim exists in many Jewish and/or leftist organizations. So, little
>>> man, please provide some sort of evidence for the claims you make. 
>>> 
>> 
>> Well read the text file above and you will see how Leftist/Jewish groups 
>> target Mr. Zundel.
>
>I read it. Most of the article headings did not mention Zundel. 

I guess you can't read them.  Since most had the name Zundel in the headers.


Marc



From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:35 PDT 1995
Article: 8903 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!  McVay a whiner!
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:18:25 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <441fb3$gll@inforamp.net>
References:  <43qqlm$4fa@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <43ucnj$p79@ionews.io.org> <43v5tr$fnd@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:9737 alt.illuminati:8940 alt.politics.correct:58052 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2797 alt.politics.white-power:3853 alt.revisionism:8903 alt.skinheads:3479 can.general:51898 can.legal:8376 can.politics:4476 ont.general:21727 soc.culture.german:59079 soc.culture.jewish:6792

>lzaird@io.org (lzaird) wrote:
>
>[re Zuendel's web pages]
>
>>will run slow as molasses because he has to reply in an HTML
>>document...not HALF as direct as Usenet.  Face it deniers, your hero's
>>avoiding Usenet like a bad plague... Why doesn't he argue in front of
>>everybody for ALL to see, and for ALL to participate in?  
>
>One can only speculate, of course, but I think the answer is
>clear. Mr. Lemire, Zuendel's current mouthpiece, explained
>that Mr. Zuendel is unable to concentrate, because he is
>having his home rebuilt... noisy workmen, and all that.. alas,
>Mr. Lemire went on to explain that Mr. Zuendel produced
>newsletters in four languages ("All Different!" proclaimed Mr.
>Lemire!), published monthly and yearly material, etc., which,
>of course, firmly demonstrates that Mr. Zuendel isn't unable
>to concentrate (noisy workmen, all that banging about, you
>know) in any area excepting UseNet... where he is quite
>clearly unwilling to engage in the "free and open" discussion
>he continues to say he is denied.


Come on Mr. McVay.  I have never claimed to be a spokesman for Mr. Zundel.  I 
mearly stated that, he is a very busy man and most likley does not have the 
time to come to Usenet right now.

Why don't you pick up the phone and call him McVay?  His phone number is (416) 
922-9850.  

Somehow I don't think you have the guts to.  
(I posted his number to UseNet on many occasions and since my original post 
not even one person has wanted to ask Zundel personally why he has not come on 
here.....  wonder why?)


>Apparently, these workmen have been banging about for four
>years, since the free and open discussions in alt.revisionism,
>soc.history, soc.culture.german, can.politics, and a host of
>other newsgroups has continued here for precisely that long;
>either that, of course, or Mr. Zuendel is simply afraid to
>show his mettle here.


You ever thought that maybe Zundel only heard of the Net since it got popular? 
Which is only quite recently.

But instead of throwing useless questions in the air, why not call him and get 
it from from his mouth.



>I suspect that's the case - he's simply hoping that no one
>will notice his hypocrisy while he cons others into posting
>his tiresome lies (like the Lachout document, and Samisdat
>crap claiming Dr. Krakowsky said things he quite clearly did
>not say, to mention two recently brought to the net's
>attention).


Why don't you call him and find out, instead of throwing you one-sided 
non-sence here.

Here is his number once again

Ernst Zundel
(416) 922-9850




Marc


From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:36 PDT 1995
Article: 8904 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism....  EXPOSED.
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:38:27 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 158
Message-ID: <441d07$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43ttqb$883@inforamp.net> <43umfj$64t@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:8904 alt.politics.nationalism.white:2799 alt.politics.white-power:3854 alt.discrimination:35891 alt.skinheads:3481 can.politics:4478 can.general:51899

>Despite your catchy header I still think you are full of shit. You site a
>whole lot of articles in I think three Canadian newspapers and claim this
>to be an expose on "JEwish Terrorism"? 

Well I guess you can't read.   Here is a snippet of the original post.  Count 
the sources I used.  I case you don't feel like it, I used 17 different 
newspapers/magazines to quote from.

[tedious list deleted - it is elsewhere in this file. knm]


>For all we know, and we all
>probably surmise that these articles could ALL relate to THE SAME 
>incident. Or THE SAME TWO incidents. There is no warrant for your claim


If you could read, each one I put on, I also included what the article was 
about.  So by ACTUALLY READING what I wrote you could easily tell that it was 
NOT only one or two inncidents.


>that there is a signifigant amount of oJewish terrorosm and that this is
>something I should be phoning my congressman about. Then you cite some FBI

Well Skinheads and KKK types do far LESS crime than what Jewish or Leftist 
groups do.  But you hardley ever hear about that type of crime.  But when a 
Skinhead beats up someone it's front page news for days.

Hypocracy in action!


>statistics..........FROM 1982!!!!!! (coulda been 83 ...I don't recall)
>Would it not make sense to accuse these stats of being just slightly over
>the hill? I mean, according to you the last act of "jewish terrorism "
>took placein the fucking 80's......so there has been massive change since

Read the bloody article.  The FBI reports are one small part of the whole 
thing.  My articles date right up to only a few months ago.  



>then because you can't site one instance since the 80's when there has
>been an act of "jewish terrorism" 

Once again.... READ THE ARTICLE


>OK, now suppose that you can. Is Left-Wing violence by it's very
>existance, supposed to justify Righth wing violence? What the hell are you
>trying to prove?  Does the statement "jews are all terrorists" negate the
>statement "nazis are white trash thugs"? 

I am trying to prove that Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist violence is more 
prevalent than right-wing or White-power violence.  A fact that the media over 
looks time and time again.


>Seriously, when will all this mindless name-calling bullshit end? 

Ask people like Ken McVay.  Who throw in, every chance they get, an insult.
I agree with you.  We should leave personal insults out.


>It does nothing to advance either of
>our causes, but merely perpetuates the current state of stagnation. Do you
>want you children to grow up in this same set of circumstances? Or do you
>want your children to grow up better? Whatever the definition of "better"
>may be none of us will ever get there by calling each other names.


I do want my children to grow up in a better world.  That is why I do what I 
do.  I want to get to the truth.  I want to find out the answers.

Hopefully we will be able to both debate things with an open mind.  And in the 
end come to some sort of conclusion.


Marc




From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:37 PDT 1995
Article: 8905 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: More of Mcvays whining about Zundel ...was (Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!)
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:51:16 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 150
Message-ID: <441do7$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:2800 alt.politics.white-power:3855 alt.revisionism:8905 ont.general:21729

>cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>>haplo@idirect.com (HAPLO) wrote:
>>>>You really want to do is slander and poke fun at them. You ask why Mr. 
>>>>Zundel will not debate You. It is CHEAP SHOTS like this One that are the 
>>>>reason. 
>>>When Mr. Zuendel claims, as he has for years, that he has been
>>>denied "free and open" discussion of the Holocaust, and while
>>>that free and open discussion has been continuing, unabated,
>>>on UseNet for four years, one might instead surmise that Mr.
>>>Zuendel has no real interest in the "free and open" discussion
>>>of anything, let alone the Holocaust.
>>>One might surmise, perhaps incorrectly, that Mr. Zuendel is a
>>>coward.
>>>He can, of course, prove me wrong, and participate in the free
>>>and open discussions in alt.revisionism.
>>Seems like you are going to keep poking shots at Zundel until he does... eh 
>>Kenny-boy?
>
>I know I will...and I'm sure Ken would like to see him here.  But I
>also know he'll never show his ass around Usenet...what he wants is a
>podeum with no Q&A period, and agreement, that's his idea of a debate.
>
>
>>>As to who insults who, I suggest you peruse Mr. Zuendel's
>>>latest response to Jamie McCarthy... I trust he will have
>>>posted it to his Web site by now (if not, we'll help him out
>>>by posting it to the net). Compare it with Mr. McCarthy's
>>>correspondence with Mr. Zuendel, and decide who is behaving
>>>like a petulant, insulting child. 
>>>Zuendel has access to UseNet, and he is afraid to participate
>>>- _that_ is the long and short of it, Alex.
>>That is your opinion Mr. McVay.  
>
>ezundel@cts.com... That, I believe is an E-Mail address... Now, if
>you're telling me that Zundel has an E-Mail address, and a Web site,
>but no access to Usenet, I'll be amazed. 

Wake up buddy.   Where is CTS located?  In case you don't know, it is in 
California.  Now where is Ernst Zundel.  Gee, Toronto.  Boy maybe now you can 
figure out that Zundel personally does not have Internet access.

Is that simple enough for even you????



>>Just because Mr. Zundel is not participating right now maybe because of 
other 
>>reasons.  Take that he is trying to fix his house right now.  There are 
>>workmen and loud noises all day.  It would make it very hard to concentrate 
>>for long periods of time, which is what he would have to do.
>
>Face it, buddy, your hero's a coward.  His 'arguemnts' wouldn't stand
>up against ANYONE'S counter-points... Zundel would lose a debate on
>the holocaust to Ed the Sock, never mond somebody who has researched
>the topic well.  

Funny how you don't answer the points I brought up.  

This time take into consideration all the things I mentioned 

"Take that he is trying to fix his house right now.  There are 
workmen and loud noises all day.  It would make it very hard to concentrate 
for long periods of time, which is what he would have to do."

Now think again.  (If thats what you even did in the first place)



>>Also consider that this debate in Usenet is probibly not a top concern to 
him. 
>>Don't forget he publishes News Letters in 4 languages every month.  And each 
>>langueage is different.  That takes quite alot of time.  
>
>No, King Zundel has much more pressing issues to attend to...
>Bull-shit, he's evading.  How long does it take to post?  30
>minutes...


You know that that is bullshit.

It takes me a long time each day to do all my posts.  And if I were Zundel, he 
wuld be looking at 4-5 hours a day in posting/research.   Now that is alot of 
time for a single person to do.   And with everything else he is doing, he 
just doesn't have the time right now.

Just shut up and wait for a little while.



>>Then factor in all the Interviews he does, plus all his other work.
>
>Oh yeah, he's a busy man... (smirk) 

What do you do all day, other than tap away into your computer.  At least he 
is fowarding his point of view.  He fowards his views to millions of people 
weekly.  What do you do to foward your views.  You don't have a TV show like 
Zundel does, you don't have a Shortwave radio show like Zundel does, you don't 
publish a Newsletter, you are not a book publisher....  You are nothing 
compared to Mr. Zundel.


>>Now you see the dilema he faces before entering UseNet.
>
>The truth?


He has been fighting this battle for at least 10 years.  So i am quite sure 
that he is NOT scared of the truth.

Get real buddy.


>>Before you go shooting off your mouth, maybe you should stop and think about 
>>what you are saying for a second.
>
>Making excuses for the littlest immigrant, Marc?


I asume you are referring to Zundel.  Well he is one of the best immigrants 
Canada has ever gotten.  Most immigrants have taken welfare one time or 
another.  But Mr. Zundel has never taken Welfare since he landed on these 
shores.  He also has never been a day in the hospital and never been convicted 
of a criminal offence.   



Marc




From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:37 PDT 1995
Article: 8906 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 16:55:11 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 60
Message-ID: <441dvi$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <434vhd$2i2@ionews.io.org>  <43a11v$e4q@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43p285$9v8@inforamp.net> <43ufa8$pse@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:2802 alt.politics.white-power:3858 alt.revisionism:8906

>cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>>haplo@idirect.com (HAPLO) wrote:
>>>>Wrong. He has been :ABELED a Neo-Nazi by the Media and other Organization 
>>>>as a way to discredit him so they will have an excuse not to debate him. 
>>>>That is the Truth.!
>>>Here is the truth: Holocaust-related topics have been debated
>>>here, on the net, for FOUR YEARS.
>>>Zuendel has remained silent.
>>>Tell me, Haplo, what is his excuse for this refusal to join
>>>the discussions here, given his constant prattling about the
>>>desire for "free and open discussion?"
>>I don't want to speak for Zundel, but he is quite a busy man and joining 
such 
>>a debate here is quite time consuming.  Don't forget he publishes 2 monthly, 
1 
>>quartly and 1 yearly publication.  He also does plenty of interviews and 
other 
>>stuff.
>
>Oh!  This is rich!  His web-site states that all he wants is a free
>debate in a truly open and free forum, and when people challenge him
>to a truly free and open debate here on Usenet, suddenly he's too
>busy?  
>
>HAH!!!  Bull-shit...  


Boy, you are quite the selfish prick.

You and everybody else in the world wants to debate him.

So shut up and wait your turn.

Stop acting like a two year old baby who can't have his milk for a minute!



Marc




From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:38 PDT 1995
Article: 8907 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Canada's Most Controversial BBS....  READ THIS!!!!!
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:20:26 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <441fes$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43u08t$8v2@inforamp.net> <43v7rk$6kt@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>In article <43u08t$8v2@inforamp.net>, Marc Lemire  wrote:
>>
>>          *******************************************************
>>          **            CANADIAN PATRIOTS NETWORK              **
>>          *******************************************************
>>          ** MAIL: 152 Carlton St. Suite 545, Toronto,         **
>>          **       Ontario, M5A 2K0, CANADA                    **
>>          ** Digital Freedom BBS: Canada's most controversial  **
>
>Notice that the CPN is on Carlton Street.  This is the same street
>that Zu"ndel is on.


Even though Mr. Zundel place is a few blocks away, that must mean, that I am 
really Zundel.  No NO.. maybe my name is really Ernst Lemire.  Or could it be 
Marc Zundel?

You never know.


Marc

Here's that address again...



From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:39 PDT 1995
Article: 8908 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Schindler's List FALSIFIES HISTORY
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:24:42 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <441fms$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <43u242$8v2@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>BTW, I'll see what I can find with your (incomplete) references to JDL
>terrorism as chronicled in FBI documents sometime next week.

How could you say that my references to the JDL are incomplete, considering 
that you have not gotten off you ass to actually find them yet.

Please keep your opinion out of it.

Just go to the library and get the stats.  They come back here to UseNet and 
tell everyone how RIGHT I was.


Marc


From cpn@inforamp.net Sat Sep 23 15:31:39 PDT 1995
Article: 8909 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Lemire's "Leftist" .gifs
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 95 17:28:15 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 48
Message-ID: <441fth$gll@inforamp.net>
References: <440n2q$hko@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-12.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>Marc,
>
>I was particularly intrigued by the .gif of the leftist/Indians
>shouting, "Start killing cops" and the one one where they are verbally
>abusing you.
>
>But something must be wrong with my .gif viewer: I can't hear them
>saying anything. Either that, or the word baloons didn't survive the
>transmission. If the latter, could you please repost them?
>
>Thanks ever so much.
>


Oh please, stop being such an Idiot.

The ARA/Indians were shouting "start killing cops", but ofcourse the pictures 
did not record the sound.

Why even waste you time with such a stupid post?


The last picture was the people who came up to me and verbally assulted me.


Marc
Article 9278 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Zundel's access to the Internet
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:50:49 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <448i7r$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <434vhd$2i2@ionews.io.org>  <43a11v$e4q@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <442ilk$35oe@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:10318 alt.illuminati:9008 alt.politics.correct:58394 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3078 alt.politics.white-power:4271 alt.revisionism:9278 alt.skinheads:3649 can.general:52184 can.legal:8498 can.politics:4831 ont.general:21928


>In message <43p285$9v8@inforamp.net> - cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) writes:
>
>:>
>:>haplo@idirect.com (HAPLO) wrote:
>:>>
>:>>>Wrong. He has been :ABELED a Neo-Nazi by the Media and other Organization 
>:>>>as a way to discredit him so they will have an excuse not to debate him. 
>:>>>That is the Truth.!
>:>>
>:>>Here is the truth: Holocaust-related topics have been debated
>:>>here, on the net, for FOUR YEARS.
>:>>
>:>>Zuendel has remained silent.
>:>>
>:>>Tell me, Haplo, what is his excuse for this refusal to join
>:>>the discussions here, given his constant prattling about the
>:>>desire for "free and open discussion?"
>:>
>:>
>:>I don't want to speak for Zundel, but he is quite a busy man and joining 
such 
>:>a debate here is quite time consuming.  Don't forget he publishes 2 
monthly, 1 
>:>quartly and 1 yearly publication.  He also does plenty of interviews and 
other 
>:>stuff.
>:>
>:>But from the looks of things, Mr. Zundel is coming to the Internet.  He has 
a 
>:>WWW site and also has his E-Mail address.  But give it time, I am sure he 
will 
>:>come sooner or later.
>
>You don't have to speak for Mr. Zuendel, Marc.  He is free to speak for 
>himself, if he ever summons up the courage.  I'll believe it when I see it.


OK Gordie.  Why don't you show the whole world your courage and pick up the 
phone and call Zundel yourself and ask him why he is not here.

His phone number is (416) 922-9850.


Lets see who has the courage Gordie!



Marc

[bloated signature file deleted]


Article 9285 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Revisionist CD-ROMS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:51:51 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448lqa$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4




                    NOW AVAILIBLE.... REVISIONIST CD-ROMS

   For only $50 Canadian / $40 American we are offering 400-500 MEGABYTES
 worth of Revisioinist/Pro-White material on CD-ROMS.  This CD is filled with 
pictures, Sound files, Revisionist material, Pro-White Text files and tons of 
other information for the Politically Incorrect thinker

All Proceeds from the CD-ROMS go directly towards the operation of Digital
Freedom BBS.

For a listing of what files are on the CD please:

 Logon Digital Freedom BBS and type "Allfiles" from the main menu.
 DIGITAL FREEDOM BBS:  (416) 462-3327  28.8 v.34
                       (416) 465-4767  14.4 v.32, v.42bis

 Send Internet E-Mail to cpn@inforamp.net.

 Or write to
                           C.P.N.
                           152 Carlton St
                           Suite 545
                           Toronto, ON
                           M5A 2K0
                           CANADA

Here is a short sample of some of the files availible on the new CD-ROM
[file list deleted]
[bloated signature file deleted]


Article 9286 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Digital Freedom BBS...  Canada's most talked about BBS!
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:52:56 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <448ls9$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4


[bloated signature file deleted]


Article 9292 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.kei.com!simtel!oleane!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists... EXPOSED...
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:25:49 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 126
Message-ID: <448k9f$qci@inforamp.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:52511 alt.discrimination:36034 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3085 alt.politics.white-power:4280 alt.revisionism:9292

>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:

>> Then I guess you don't like facts.
>
>The facts or a completely selective list of some newspaper articles, some 
>of which are referring to the same incidents.

That is just what I had on hand.  I never claimed it to co 100% complete list 
of terrorism, since there are selected incidents that ceom from the Right that 
I did not add in.


>Btw you are pretty careless with your labels. Very few readers of Z 
>Magazine would ever associate themselves with the JDL. NOr would ARA 
>members be comfortable with the label of being with JDL.
>
>You have grouped together organizations which have contrary views and 
>lumped them into one category. Useful for defending your position; 
>useless for illuminating the subject matter.

Not ture.

Both the ARA and the JDl violently oppose right-wing viewponts.  That is how I 
grouped them together, even though you are correct in saying that they do 
share different view points.



>> >: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the
>> >: police?
>
>I believe this question was one I posed much earlier but I doubt if it 
>has been answered.
>
>The point I was making was that the far-right likes to talk about law and 
>order but itself is perfectly willing to break laws for its cause. Many 
>laws should be broken [not the ones they, the neo-nazis are for the most 
>part] but since the position of 
>the far-right is 'law and order' they are being entirely hypocritical.

Not true again.  If the ARA did attack Right-Wingers, yes they would use the 
police.  Look for example at the time the Heritage Front went to court.  There 
were hundreds of ARA supporters protesting the Heritage front and the Front 
worked closley with the police to try to stem more violence that could have 
eurupted at any second.



>> -The Outlook, May 28, 1994  "Former SF policeman enters no-contest plea in
>> surveillance case"  Talks about the B'nai B'rith Anti-Defimation league
>> illegially spying of right-Wing activists and Skinheads.
>
>Wait a minute. This same guy harassed and surveilled anti-racist and 
>anti-apartheid groups as well, more so than the racist groups.

Not from the articles that I have read.

Could you please quote the articles that prove your point.


>> -North Shore News, May 19, 1993  "Jackboots of the Left stomping on 
freedom"
>> By Doug Collins
>
>This is an editorial column by a far-right sympathizer (Collins has ties to 
>the Canadial League of Rights, a non-swastika naz fan club that has 
>distributed Zundel's pamphlets);it is not remotely objective and it is 
>not the report of any particular incident. 

Attack what Mr. Collins wrote in that article not his person.


>> -Toronto Star, June 12, 1993  "Anti-Racist mob trashes home"  This is when 
the
>> ARA marched and trashed the home of Gary Schipper, who was the voice of the
>> Heritage Hotline.  In that attack they caused aroUND $80,000 DAMAGE
>
>And NOBODY died or was even injured. Compare that to the bombings of 
>Turkish refugees in Germany.
>There is no comparison here and as always the 
>neo-nazi argument is all fraudulent.

I am refering to Canada and America.  Not the world.

And are you in some way condoning the Trashing of Mr. Schippers house by the 
ARA?


>> -The Zionist Terror Network.... background and operations of the Jewish
>> Defence League.  Written by the Institute for Historical Review (IHR)
>
>IHR is a nazi-sympathizer outfit; again a general overview and not a 
>report about a specific incident. More neo-nazi dishonestly.

Again.  Attack what they say, not them personally.


It seems you are more interested in attacking people, instead of what they 
write.

Interesting.  Could it be because you cannot find any errors in those reports?


Marc
[bloated signature file deleted]
Article 3081 of alt.politics.nationalism.white:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Canada's most controversial BBS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:55:23 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <448m0t$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[bbs adv deleted]

Article 4277 of alt.politics.white-power:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!newsfeed.internetmci.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Canada's Most controversial BBS!!!!!
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:56:15 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <448m2h$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[bbs adv deleted]

Article 10346 of alt.conspiracy:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Conspiracy and Politically Incorrect CD-ROMS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:56:44 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448m3g$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[cdrom adv deleted]

[bloated signature deleted]

Article 10347 of alt.conspiracy:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Subject: Canada's Most Controversial BBS... READ THIS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:57:14 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <448m4b$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[bbs adv deleted]

Article 3653 of alt.skinheads:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.skinheads
Subject: Skinhead CD-ROMS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:58:44 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448m7a$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[CD ROM adv deleted, file list deleted, bloated signature file
deleted]

Article 4333 of alt.politics.white-power:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power
Subject: Pro-White, Politically Incorrect CD-ROMS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:55:52 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448m1r$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[solicitation for CD-ROM deleted, file list deleted, bloated
signature file deleted]

                    NOW AVAILIBLE.... PRO-WHITE CD-ROMS

[Note that title and Subject: change according to the
newsgroup used - the contents remain the same.]
Article 9367 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zuendel's access to the internet
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:14:24 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 81
Message-ID: <448g3h$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <43b5ed$ci1@ionews.io.org>  <43pmq6$6bj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tq03$7um@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>Greg Raven wrote:
>
>> If you are referring to Zundel, you should be aware that he has no
>> connection to the Internet, so engaging in a debate with you or anyone
>> else is problemmatical for him.
>
>[Ken McVay wrote:]
>
>> Utter nonsense. Mr. Zuendel has a connection to the Internet,
>> and is quite capable of using it to further his expressed
>> desire for "free and open debate" here in alt.revisionism.
>>
>> That he doesn't is telling.
>
>cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> Really Ken.
>> 
>> Could you please point out this so-called connection Mr. Zundel has.
>
>Marc, you go on to point out, in your .sig:
>
>>                   ERNST ZUNDEL'S VOICE OF FREEDOM WWW SITE
>>                    http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english
>
>He's got a web site, he's got an email address (ezundel@cts.com);
>ergo he's got a connection to the Internet.  Marc, what of that
>don't you understand?


I must disagree with you Mr. Mcarthy.  The WWW site and his E-mail messages 
are stored for him on a server.  Like all WWW sites.  Then a person, most 
likley, gets the mail for him and faxes it to him.

Don't forget Mr. Mcarthy that Webcom, CTS is in California not in Canada, 
where Mr. Zundel lives.

BTW Mr. Mcarthy why did you erase the part where I tell Mr. Mcvay to call Mr. 
Zundel and find out why he is not participatiing in UseNet and if he does have 
an Internet connection.

That would solve the whole problem quite quick.

His phone number is (416) 922-9850.

Ask him, since I cannot talk for him.



>In fact, Mr. Zuendel has obviously been reading alt.revisionism for some
>time, since he's obviously formed such a colorful opinion of the place! 
>Why Mr. Raven then claims that Mr. Zuendel finds it "problemmatical"
>[sic] to join us here, I don't understand.


Well Mr. Mcarthy, If you called Mr. Zundel you might understand more fully.


Marc




Article 9368 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Lemire's "Leftist" .gifs
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:19:15 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <448gcl$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <440n2q$hko@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <441fth$gll@inforamp.net> <441n6c$sij@larry.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>Marc Lemire (cpn@inforamp.net) wrote:
>: >
>: >I was particularly intrigued by the .gif of the leftist/Indians
>: >shouting, "Start killing cops" and the one one where they are verbally
>: >abusing you.
>: >
>: >But something must be wrong with my .gif viewer: I can't hear them
>: >saying anything. Either that, or the word baloons didn't survive the
>: >transmission. If the latter, could you please repost them?
>: >
>: >Thanks ever so much.
>: >
>
>
>: Oh please, stop being such an Idiot.
>
>: The ARA/Indians were shouting "start killing cops", but ofcourse the 
pictures 
>: did not record the sound.
>
>: Why even waste you time with such a stupid post?
>
>Why waste time posting a picture of people you claim were shouting "start
>killing cops", as if it were evidence of anything?


It is evidence that the ARA (Anti-Racist Action) is a very violent group and 
one of there favorite targets is the Police.

Which these pictures show.


Marc




Article 9369 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Ghandi and documented proof...  Is there such a thing?
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:40:56 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <448hl9$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org> <441do7$gll@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3153 alt.politics.white-power:4356 alt.revisionism:9369

>In article <441do7$gll@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom) 
wrote:
>
>> I asume you are referring to Zundel.  Well he is one of the best immigrants 
>> Canada has ever gotten.  Most immigrants have taken welfare one time or 
>> another. 
>
>Most immigrants have not taken welfare since coming to Canada. You will
>find, if you do a little research, that the percentage of immigrants on
>welfare is equivalent to or less than the national average of citizens on
>welfare.

Since you are always bothering me about documented facts...

PLEASE PROVE THIS CLAIM.


Since I live quite close to a Welfare office in the Heart of Toronto, I can 
tell you from experience that a large majority of Welfare cases handled by 
that office are Refugess or Immigrants.



Marc




Article 9370 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!swrinde!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ernst Zuendel's access to the internet
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:48:33 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 57
Message-ID: <448i3i$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <43b5ed$ci1@ionews.io.org>  <43pmq6$6bj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tq03$7um@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>In  jamie@voyager.net (Jamie McCarthy) 
writes:
>
>>-- it appears that Mr. Zuendel actually has no intention whatsoever of
>>engaging in what the net knows as "open debate."  Instead of an open
>>discussion forum like Usenet, where claims can be quickly debated,
>>he prefers the Web, where arguments and counter-arguments trade places
>>slowly and only with great difficulty.  Interesting.  I'll be exploring
>>that in my reply.
>
>And why can't he spend 30 minutes on the IRC on a well-prepared debate
>with one well-chosen opponent?  We could make a moderated channel where
>everybody could join but only Zndel and one other, let's say Keren,
>Morris or McVey, could speak.  General discussions could follow afterwards
>with more people participating.  The IRC is really a fascinating medium. 
>Everything happens in real-time and it can be extremely suggestive, just
>like ordinary real-life conversations.
>
>There is a lot that can be said in 30 minutes if one types fast.

I think you are missing the point I made before.

Mr. Zundel does not have full access to the Internet.  He has a Webmaster who 
does the Internet chores, but he does not have access to IRC or anything like 
that.

And about McVay debateing Zundel.  Well I have offered Mr. Zundel's phone 
number to McVay on numerous occasions.  Still he has not picked up the phone 
and asked Mr. Zundel directly why he is nto accessing the Internet.  
Instead McVay wants to slander Mr. Zundel here.

Funny isn't it!


Marc



Article 9371 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!lerc.nasa.gov!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!pendragon.jsc.nasa.gov!bcm.tmc.edu!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.mindlink.net!van-bc!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: What's anti-semite?
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:17:27 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <448jpo$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <44422n$okm$1@mhade.production.compuserve.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>I think we Jews should realize that we are overusing and misusing
>the cliche "anti-Semitic." When there are 185 million Arabs and
>35 million Ethiopians who share with us the Semitic language, it
>seems too absurd that hatred toward the Jews only be labeled with
>that cliche.


I agree with you that the word Anti-Semite is being used far too much and that 
it does leave out Arabs which are also Semetic.


Thanks for bringing it up


Marc



Article 9386 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: More of Mcvays whining about Zundel ...was (Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:08:26 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <448foc$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org> <441do7$gll@inforamp.net> <441kkh$feg@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3158 alt.politics.white-power:4363 alt.revisionism:9386 ont.general:21986

>cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>[snip]
>>I asume you are referring to Zundel.  Well he is one of the best immigrants 
>>Canada has ever gotten.  Most immigrants have taken welfare one time or 
>>another.  But Mr. Zundel has never taken Welfare since he landed on these 
>>shores.  He also has never been a day in the hospital and never been 
convicted 
>>of a criminal offence.   
>
>Well that's not quite accurate, is it? Zuendel was convicted of
>spreading false news, a criminal code violation. The conviction was
>overturned on appeal to the Supreme Court on the grounds that the law
>was unconstitutional. That is not the same thing as an acquittal. It's
>more like what people mean when they say someone "got off on a
>technicality."
>
>But I would not wish to belittle the court's decision: it did hold
>that free speech should be protected even at the risk of having to
>tolerate a liar.


I disagree with you here.  I think that Mr. Zundel does NOT have a criminal 
record.  The charge that he was charged with was overturned.  So in fact, the 
court agreed with Mr. Zundel of the basis that the charges were 
unconstitutional.


Mr. Zundel has never been sucessfully charged criminally or even civially in 
Canada.  He does have s criminal record in Germany because of their Draconian 
laws reguarding the Holocaust.


Marc



Article 9387 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: More of Mcvays whining about Zundel ...was (Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:17:33 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 58
Message-ID: <448g9e$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org> <441do7$gll@inforamp.net> <441ms9$s26@larry.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3159 alt.politics.white-power:4364 alt.revisionism:9387 ont.general:21987


>Marc Lemire (cpn@inforamp.net) wrote:
>
>: Wake up buddy.   Where is CTS located?  In case you don't know, it is in 
>: California.  Now where is Ernst Zundel.  Gee, Toronto.  Boy maybe now you 
can 
>: figure out that Zundel personally does not have Internet access.
>
>: Is that simple enough for even you????
>
>Are you really under the impression that one has to be located in the 
>same state as one's service provider in order to have internet access?
>Bit of a newbie, are we?


The original part of this message was Mr. Raven saying that it was 
problematical for Mr. Zundel to take part in UseNet discussions.  

I am simply pointing out that Mr. Zundel does NOT have a direct connection to 
the Internet.

He does have a WWW site and E-Mail address, which is most likley run by people 
in the States.


Is that clear enough..

And another interesting note.  I offered Mr. Zundel's phone number to both Mr. 
Mcarthy and Mr. McVay to get the answer right from Mr. Zundel.

As of today, they have still not contacted him.

I wonder why?


Marc


Article 9388 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:21:37 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <448gh2$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <43b5ed$ci1@ionews.io.org>  <43pmq6$6bj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tq03$7um@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:10458 alt.illuminati:9032 alt.politics.correct:58479 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3160 alt.politics.white-power:4365 alt.revisionism:9388 alt.skinheads:3712 can.general:52258 can.legal:8528 can.politics:4915 ont.general:21988

>In article <43tq03$7um@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> Could you please point out this so-called connection Mr. Zundel has.
>
>Lemire, your stupidity amazes me to no end.
>
>Zundel's email address is: ezundel@cts.com
>Zundel's website connection is: http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel
>                              (taken from your own pathetic advertisement)
>
>Zundel obviously has an ISP provider. Zundel obviously has an INTERNET
>connection. 


Boy your a genious.

But still you are missing the point.

As I told you already, Zundel does not have a Internet provider in Canada.  He 
most likley has people in the states who are running the Internet site.  But 
Mr. Zundel directly does not have an Internet site where he can engage in 
debate here.


Marc




Article 9397 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.skinheads
Subject: Ghandi, the true Idiot! (Re: Lemire & Proof)
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:38:04 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 106
Message-ID: <448hfu$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <43ttn0$883@inforamp.net>  <441er0$gll@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9397 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3164 alt.politics.white-power:4370 alt.skinheads:3717

>In article <441er0$gll@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Digital Freedom) 
wrote:
>> 
>> These were distributed around the area where Zundel lives.
>> 
>> The ARA also made up posters showing Mr. Zundel in the crosshairs of a gun, 
>> his address and a diagram of how to make a Firebomb.
>> 
>> Coinsidence that his house was firbombed months later????
>> 
>
>Proof, Lemire. Show Proof that the ARA had anything to do with the bombing.

I never said the ARA had anything to do with it.  I just posed the question if 
it is just coinsidence or what?


>> > -Toronto Sun May 9, 1995 "Zionist group claims arson" in the firebombing 
of
>> >> Ernst Zundel's house
>> >
>> >Oh me oh my, little man. Are you still flogging this article? There is no
>> >verification of anything said in this article regarding the responsibility
>> >for the so called arson.
>> 
>> It does show that violence is being used against Mr. Zundel.
>
>Fine. But demonstrate a non-imaginary link between the Liberal/Jewish
>terrorists and this bomb.


Well if you read the headline.   "Zionist group claims arson"  Then it is 
assumed that the Jewish group did in fact burn Mr. Zundel house down.

Read the FBI reports, where they also put claimed terrorism by the JDL in with 
all the ones where JDL members were caught doing it.
(FBI report from 1981 and 1982)



>> >> -Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
>> >> Holocaust-denier Zundel"
>> >
>> >This shows that there is a leftist/jewish group attacking Zundel how? Show
>> >me in this article where it conclusively says that the actions of the
>> >arsonist were not that of a single person.
>> 
>> It shows that violence is being used against Mr. Zundel.  Just as it was
>meant to show.  
>
>I don't dispute this. But you made the claim that the so-called violence
>is perpetrated by a leftist/jewish group and this article demonstrated it.
>Show me how?

Read answer above about Zionist group claiming responsibility for the burning 
of Zundel's house.


>> >This shows that there is a leftist/jewish group attacking Zundel how? By
>> >committing trespass?
>> 
>> You call hopping over a 10 foot baracade... just trespassing???
>> 
>> At the very least, the JDL was trying to intimidate and harass Mr. Zundel
>> 
>
>No. The law calls it trespassing. Perhaps intimidation and harassment
>could be argued. But again, this does not link the JDL or the two
>trespassers in any way to the bombing or any other violent act commited
>against your UFO buddy.


Don't put words in my mouth, Ghandi.

I never said it does link the JDL to the bombing.  But if you look at the 
Jewish Defence League's history, they have done quite alot of firebombings and 
terrorism in the past.  If they have a link to the firebombing, that will be 
for the police department to figure out.


Marc

Article 9398 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!  He's a Nazi!
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:44:24 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <448hrp$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <43b5ed$ci1@ionews.io.org>  <43pmq6$6bj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <4429kf$hhg@calvino.alaska.net> <442cds$gl2@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:10469 alt.illuminati:9035 alt.politics.correct:58494 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3166 alt.politics.white-power:4372 alt.revisionism:9398 alt.skinheads:3719 can.general:52263 can.legal:8532 can.politics:4922 ont.general:21992

>Ernst Zuendel makes his living peddling lies about the Holocaust. Mr.
>McVay makes his living entirely by other means than by opposing
>deniers. Personally, I think it would a good thing if Mr. McVay was to
>obtain funding for his work, but so far private donations have only
>got him a new computer and an Internet connection.

BTW an Internet connection that costs quite alot of money a month.


>I find it sad that someone who claims to know as much about the
>Holocaust as you do can find nothing better to do than sit on the
>sidelines sneering and sniping at others.

It could be argued that Mr. McVay makes his living by peddeling his form of 
lies.

And another thing, maybe you should look at Mr. McVay before talking about 
others sneering and sniping.  Which is exactly what McVay does.


Marc
Article 9408 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism....  EXPOSED.
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:08:01 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 231
Message-ID: <448j84$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <43ttqb$883@inforamp.net> <43umfj$64t@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <441d07$gll@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9408 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3167 alt.politics.white-power:4374 alt.discrimination:36075 alt.skinheads:3723 can.politics:4923 can.general:52267

>Marc Lemire (cpn@inforamp.net) wrote:
>
>>>Despite your catchy header I still think you are full of shit. You site a
>>>whole lot of articles in I think three Canadian newspapers and claim this
>>>to be an expose on "JEwish Terrorism"?
>
>>Well I guess you can't read.   Here is a snippet of the original post.  
Count
>>the sources I used.  I case you don't feel like it, I used 17 different
>>newspapers/magazines to quote from.
>
>>START
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>>-IN a pamphlet by the Toronto Anti-Racist Action (ARA) they say "Be 
creative!
>>These stores are a threat to our community"  This is requarding a store run 
by
>>Right wing youths on Yonge street in Toronto
>
> How does this portion of a pamphlet fall under terrorism...it is
>advocating the use of creative protest methods...no mention of violence,
>or the threat of violence.

They indirectly are inciting violence.

Don't forget the ARA also has posters out with peoples HOME addresses on them, 
people's licence plates, and the sickest of all, Ernst Zundel in the cross 
hairs of a gun, his address and directions on how to make up a Firebomb.


>>-Toronto Star July 28, 1995  "B.C. group says it sent letter bombs" 
reguarding
>>the letter bombs being send to Ernst Zundel and others
>>-Globe and Mail May 22, 1995  "Police explode parcel bomb mailed to Zundel
>>last week"  About the letter bombs he recieved in the mail by Anti-Facist
>>militia
>>-Edmonton Sunday Sun, May 21, 1995.  "Zundel cheats death"  FRONT PAGE STORY
>>about the pipe bombg mailed to Zundel
>
> Deals with the same incident...the mail bombs by Anti Fascist Militia.

So what.  It is still proving the point of Leftist violence.



>
>>-Montreal Gazette, May 8, 1995  "Arsonist's firebomb guts house of
>>Holocaust-denier Zundel"
>>-Rochester Democrat & Chronicle May 8, 1995  "Neo-Nazi's house burns"  About
>>the Zundel house firebombing
>
> Same incident...should have been cited once...citing it twice is trying
>to add fluff and filler to your allegation that Jewsish, and anti-far
>right terrorism is more pervasive than far right acts of terrorism.


So far all you have done is quote my stuff.  Where is your proof that rightist 
are the more violent ones?


>
>
>>>For all we know, and we all
>>>probably surmise that these articles could ALL relate to THE SAME
>>>incident. Or THE SAME TWO incidents. There is no warrant for your claim
>
>>If you could read, each one I put on, I also included what the article was
>>about.  So by ACTUALLY READING what I wrote you could easily tell that it 
was
>>NOT only one or two inncidents.
>
> No...but you did cite 3 articles for one set of incidents (the mail
>bombs) and two articles for the bombing of Zundel's house...by being
>repetitive you have made it appear that there were more incidents than
>there actually were.


No I did not.  If you actually read what I wrote at the begining of the 
article you would see that I just wrote what I had on hand.  

Here is the actual part.


START__________________________________________
>HAPLO (haplo@idirect.com) wrote:

>: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to the
>: police?
>: >
>
>:     First of most Anti-Racist are more violent than any "nazi" walking
>: the street. they have been responsable for Numerous attacks on Homes and
>: people.
>
>
>    Oh PLEASE may I see some documentation on these numerous attacks on Homes
>    and people?
{Marc Lemire}
... i'll give you what I have on hand about Leftist/Jewish/Anti-racist
terrorism
END_________________________________________________________________

As I said, I wrote just what I had on hand.




>>>that there is a signifigant amount of oJewish terrorosm and that this is
>>>something I should be phoning my congressman about. Then you cite some FBI
>
>>Well Skinheads and KKK types do far LESS crime than what Jewish or Leftist
>>groups do.  But you hardley ever hear about that type of crime.  But when a
>>Skinhead beats up someone it's front page news for days.
>>Hypocracy in action!
>
>Got the figures for it? FBI crime stats...RCMP stats, stats from CSIS?


Sure.. open you paper.   

What I said was not stats, it was my personal opinion.

I believe that Right-wing violence is blown way out of porportion, while 
Jewish/Leftist crime is not.



> In the 1980s, The Order (aka the Bruders Shweigen, or the Silent
>Brotherhood) was identified as the most violent of the extremist
>groups (both left and right wing). They were responsible for armed
>robberies totalling over $4 million, bombings, assaults on federal
>officers, and the murders of a suspected informant, a Missouri state
>police officer, and of Denver talk show host Alan Berg. Coming in a
>close second is that wacky bunch of kids called the Covenant, the
>Sword, the Arm of the Lord (CSA) which participated in bombings,
>arsons, robberies and the murder of an Arkansas state police officer.
>And let us not forget that in 1989, bombings in Alabama, Georgia,
>Florida and Maryland were linked to far right extremists.
>
>(_Perspectives on Terrorism_ Vetter and Perlstein, p.59)
>
> From personal observation of incidents of terrorism, I don't think
>the JDL or even Israel's Terror against Terror comes even close to the
>intensity of violence that has come from the far right.


I don't think you even close my friend.

Here in 1981 Jewish Groups caused, 
1 actual bombing
1 attempted bombing
3 actual firebombings
1 attempted firebombing
1 shooting
1 violent takeover

In 1982, they were even more active
5 actual bombings
1 attempted bombing
1 smokebombing
1 arson

They also KILLED 1 and INJURED 7.

So think again how the Order stacks up to the Jewish Defence League.

In only 2 years they caused that much pain and greif.

I wish I had more FBI reports on the following years.  But I am sure the JDL 
was just as active



>
>
>>>OK, now suppose that you can. Is Left-Wing violence by it's very
>>>existance, supposed to justify Righth wing violence? What the hell are you
>>>trying to prove?  Does the statement "jews are all terrorists" negate the
>>>statement "nazis are white trash thugs"?
>
>>I am trying to prove that Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist violence is more
>>prevalent than right-wing or White-power violence. A fact that the media 
over
>>looks time and time again.
>
>
> Well...you have done a really lousy job of it. Yes there is violence,
>and terrorism from the left, from Jewish extremist groups, and from
>anti-racists...but there is also quite a bit from the far right. If you
>want to *prove* that there is more violence emenating from the left, then
>I would suggest that you sit down and do some real research, and then
>make an attempt at some solid, unbiased analysis. (and accept the
>results if they don't go your way)


I have looked at the facts over years of my involvement with the Right-Wing.  
And I still find myself at the same conclusion.

So far no one has written anything to disprove my half-assed article on 
terrorism.

I do agree with you that there is Violence on both sides.  It is inevidible 
due to the nature of such groups.  Both sides do attract the lowest common 
denominator in people.  But I still stand by my article and say that the 
Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist side is far more violent.


Marc


Article 9409 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Karl Mamer...  Terrorist?
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:12:09 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <448jfq$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org> <441do7$gll@inforamp.net> <443obo$5v9@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3168 alt.politics.white-power:4375 alt.revisionism:9409 ont.general:21993

In article <443obo$5v9@ionews.io.org>, kamamer@io.org (karl mamer) wrote:


So Mr. Mamer, are you still running around the Internet asking people to 
Harrass me and my BBS?


That is against Canadian Law and I will not stand for idle threats by people 
like you.




Marc Lemire
DIGITAL FREEDOM SYSOP



Article 9410 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: McVays refusial to call Zundel
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:14:57 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <448jl2$qci@inforamp.net>
References:  <43qqlm$4fa@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <43ucnj$p79@ionews.io.org> <43v5tr$fnd@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <441fb3$gll@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:10477 alt.illuminati:9036 alt.politics.correct:58506 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3169 alt.politics.white-power:4376 alt.revisionism:9410 alt.skinheads:3724 can.general:52268 can.legal:8533 can.politics:4924 ont.general:21994 soc.culture.german:59314 soc.culture.jewish:7359

>Marc Lemire (cpn@inforamp.net) wrote:
>: Here is his number once again
>
>: Ernst Zundel
>: (416) 922-9850
>
>good. give him a call and tell him to get over here. we're waiting.


Mr. McVay has refused to call Mr. Zundel and face him.

I wonder why?

Is he scared of Zundel or something?


Marc

Article 9412 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Accusations of Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism EXPOSED.
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:32:01 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <448kl3$qci@inforamp.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9412 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3170 alt.politics.white-power:4377 alt.discrimination:36076 alt.skinheads:3725 can.politics:4925 can.general:52269

>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:

>> the sources I used.  I case you don't feel like it, I used 17 different 
>> newspapers/magazines to quote from.
>
>Some of those being articles by Nazi sympathizers; an ok ploy for the 
>unaware or uneducated by for those who have been around it is a trick 
>that falls flat on its face.
>
> 
>> -Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist 
incidents
>> in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts 
that
>> year.
>
>I notice there is no Nexis database comparison of news reports of racist 
>violence versus anti-racist violence. Again JDL is not specifically an 
>anti-racist group so your comparison is invalid.
>Nor do you provide a FBI reference to the activities of WAR, the Order, 
>Posse Commitatus x sp, etc.


In the reports that I have they do NOT cite any Pro-White terrorism.

And if you have these stats, please bring them fowrds, and stop flying off at 
the lip!


>Again more deception, more dishonesty from the swastika club.

Swastika club????   


>> Well Skinheads and KKK types do far LESS crime than what Jewish or Leftist 
>> groups do.  But you hardley ever hear about that type of crime.  But when a 
>> Skinhead beats up someone it's front page news for days.
>
>Again any claim of comparison should really be more thorough or at least 
>consistent. If you refer to FBI files on anti-racist groups (which you 
>have yet to do - again JDL is not anti-racist) then you have to refer to 
>FBI files on white supremacists which you have not done. Surprise 
>surprise surprise.


As I stated above, the FBI reports that I have DO NOT cite any Pro-White 
terrorism.


>> Hypocracy in action!
>
>No, actually it is hypocrisy in your positon ("law and order for you but 
>not for me"

NO yuour wrong.  I hold the position that Jewish/Leftist/Anti-Racist groups 
are the more violent ones, for which you have not proven to me why they are 
not.  



>> I am trying to prove that Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist violence is more 
>> prevalent than right-wing or White-power violence.  A fact that the media 
over 
>> looks time and time again.
>
>Again no evidence to support this. Your comparison demands a comparison 
>of evidence. I understand that Nexis database stuff is costly but since 
>so many of you get government money this should not be too much of a  
>problem.


What are you talking about... "So many of us get government money"

I have never recieved a dime from the government to do what I do.

If you are going to make base-less accusation, you make your self look like an 
Idiot.


>> do.  I want to get to the truth.  I want to find out the answers.
>
>You want to selectively take bits and then mush them together to 
>creat a totally false conclusion.


Then show me the parts that I am leaving out.  And I will form a new 
conclusion.

So far you have shown NONE.  All you have done is run off at the mouth.


Marc

Article 9412 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Accusations of Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism EXPOSED.
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:32:01 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <448kl3$qci@inforamp.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9412 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3170 alt.politics.white-power:4377 alt.discrimination:36076 alt.skinheads:3725 can.politics:4925 can.general:52269

>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:

>> the sources I used.  I case you don't feel like it, I used 17 different 
>> newspapers/magazines to quote from.
>
>Some of those being articles by Nazi sympathizers; an ok ploy for the 
>unaware or uneducated by for those who have been around it is a trick 
>that falls flat on its face.
>
> 
>> -Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist 
incidents
>> in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts 
that
>> year.
>
>I notice there is no Nexis database comparison of news reports of racist 
>violence versus anti-racist violence. Again JDL is not specifically an 
>anti-racist group so your comparison is invalid.
>Nor do you provide a FBI reference to the activities of WAR, the Order, 
>Posse Commitatus x sp, etc.


In the reports that I have they do NOT cite any Pro-White terrorism.

And if you have these stats, please bring them fowrds, and stop flying off at 
the lip!


>Again more deception, more dishonesty from the swastika club.

Swastika club????   


>> Well Skinheads and KKK types do far LESS crime than what Jewish or Leftist 
>> groups do.  But you hardley ever hear about that type of crime.  But when a 
>> Skinhead beats up someone it's front page news for days.
>
>Again any claim of comparison should really be more thorough or at least 
>consistent. If you refer to FBI files on anti-racist groups (which you 
>have yet to do - again JDL is not anti-racist) then you have to refer to 
>FBI files on white supremacists which you have not done. Surprise 
>surprise surprise.


As I stated above, the FBI reports that I have DO NOT cite any Pro-White 
terrorism.


>> Hypocracy in action!
>
>No, actually it is hypocrisy in your positon ("law and order for you but 
>not for me"

NO yuour wrong.  I hold the position that Jewish/Leftist/Anti-Racist groups 
are the more violent ones, for which you have not proven to me why they are 
not.  



>> I am trying to prove that Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist violence is more 
>> prevalent than right-wing or White-power violence.  A fact that the media 
over 
>> looks time and time again.
>
>Again no evidence to support this. Your comparison demands a comparison 
>of evidence. I understand that Nexis database stuff is costly but since 
>so many of you get government money this should not be too much of a  
>problem.


What are you talking about... "So many of us get government money"

I have never recieved a dime from the government to do what I do.

If you are going to make base-less accusation, you make your self look like an 
Idiot.


>> do.  I want to get to the truth.  I want to find out the answers.
>
>You want to selectively take bits and then mush them together to 
>creat a totally false conclusion.


Then show me the parts that I am leaving out.  And I will form a new 
conclusion.

So far you have shown NONE.  All you have done is run off at the mouth.


Marc


Article 9412 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.discrimination,alt.skinheads,can.politics,can.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Accusations of Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist terrorism EXPOSED.
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:32:01 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 114
Message-ID: <448kl3$qci@inforamp.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9412 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3170 alt.politics.white-power:4377 alt.discrimination:36076 alt.skinheads:3725 can.politics:4925 can.general:52269

>On Sat, 23 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:

>> the sources I used.  I case you don't feel like it, I used 17 different 
>> newspapers/magazines to quote from.
>
>Some of those being articles by Nazi sympathizers; an ok ploy for the 
>unaware or uneducated by for those who have been around it is a trick 
>that falls flat on its face.
>
> 
>> -Federal Bureau of Investigation 1982 report on claimed terrorrorist 
incidents
>> in the US. Jewish groups were claimed to have committed 8 terrorist acts 
that
>> year.
>
>I notice there is no Nexis database comparison of news reports of racist 
>violence versus anti-racist violence. Again JDL is not specifically an 
>anti-racist group so your comparison is invalid.
>Nor do you provide a FBI reference to the activities of WAR, the Order, 
>Posse Commitatus x sp, etc.


In the reports that I have they do NOT cite any Pro-White terrorism.

And if you have these stats, please bring them fowrds, and stop flying off at 
the lip!


>Again more deception, more dishonesty from the swastika club.

Swastika club????   


>> Well Skinheads and KKK types do far LESS crime than what Jewish or Leftist 
>> groups do.  But you hardley ever hear about that type of crime.  But when a 
>> Skinhead beats up someone it's front page news for days.
>
>Again any claim of comparison should really be more thorough or at least 
>consistent. If you refer to FBI files on anti-racist groups (which you 
>have yet to do - again JDL is not anti-racist) then you have to refer to 
>FBI files on white supremacists which you have not done. Surprise 
>surprise surprise.


As I stated above, the FBI reports that I have DO NOT cite any Pro-White 
terrorism.


>> Hypocracy in action!
>
>No, actually it is hypocrisy in your positon ("law and order for you but 
>not for me"

NO yuour wrong.  I hold the position that Jewish/Leftist/Anti-Racist groups 
are the more violent ones, for which you have not proven to me why they are 
not.  



>> I am trying to prove that Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist violence is more 
>> prevalent than right-wing or White-power violence.  A fact that the media 
over 
>> looks time and time again.
>
>Again no evidence to support this. Your comparison demands a comparison 
>of evidence. I understand that Nexis database stuff is costly but since 
>so many of you get government money this should not be too much of a  
>problem.


What are you talking about... "So many of us get government money"

I have never recieved a dime from the government to do what I do.

If you are going to make base-less accusation, you make your self look like an 
Idiot.


>> do.  I want to get to the truth.  I want to find out the answers.
>
>You want to selectively take bits and then mush them together to 
>creat a totally false conclusion.


Then show me the parts that I am leaving out.  And I will form a new 
conclusion.

So far you have shown NONE.  All you have done is run off at the mouth.


Marc


Article 9459 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.illuminati,alt.politics.correct,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads,can.general,can.legal,can.politics,ont.general,tor.general,soc.culture.german,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!!  McVay a whiner!
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 09:26:08 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 59
Message-ID: <448gpi$qci@inforamp.net>
References:  <43ucnj$p79@ionews.io.org> <43v5tr$fnd@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <441fb3$gll@inforamp.net> <4422mu$drq@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:10544 alt.illuminati:9051 alt.politics.correct:58555 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3204 alt.politics.white-power:4421 alt.revisionism:9459 alt.skinheads:3747 can.general:52306 can.legal:8546 can.politics:4967 ont.general:22019 soc.culture.german:59337 soc.culture.jewish:7388

>In article <441fb3$gll@inforamp.net>, Marc Lemire, writes:
>
>> Come on Mr. McVay.  I have never claimed to be a spokesman 
>> for Mr. Zundel.  I mearly stated that, he is a very busy man 
>> and most likley does not have the time to come to Usenet right now.
>
>So you believe. I believe that he lacks the courage.

You are entitled to your own opinion.  


>> Why don't you pick up the phone and call him McVay?  
>> His phone number is (416) 
>
>Mr. Zuendel peddles lies ("Das Lachout Dokument", the
>Krakowsky lie) for money. Calling him to hear his lies is no
>different from reading his lies as they appear all over the
>net, but at least it won't show up on my phone bill.
>
>As Bradley Smith put it, falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.


Hmmm... so you are going to sit here on UseNet complaining that Zundel does 
not have the courage to come on here, but yet you won't pick up the phone and 
call him yourself and ask him why he is not participating.

I hope Mr. Mcarthy is not such a coward.


I will never be able to figure you out Mr. McVay.

In case you change your mind...  Zundels phone number is (416) 922-9850 and 
his FAX number is (416) 922-8614



Marc

Article 9488 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Mark Lemire's "Leftist" .gifs
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:41:59 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 84
Message-ID: <448l7o$qci@inforamp.net>
References: <440n2q$hko@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca> <441fth$gll@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>In article <441fth$gll@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>> >Marc,
>> >
>> >I was particularly intrigued by the .gif of the leftist/Indians
>> >shouting, "Start killing cops" and the one one where they are verbally
>> >abusing you.
>> >
>> >But something must be wrong with my .gif viewer: I can't hear them
>> >saying anything. Either that, or the word baloons didn't survive the
>> >transmission. If the latter, could you please repost them?
>> >
>> >Thanks ever so much.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> Oh please, stop being such an Idiot.
>> 
>> The ARA/Indians were shouting "start killing cops", but ofcourse the 
pictures 
>> did not record the sound.
>
>Then of what use is the picture in proving your claim that the people in
>the picture were, in fact, shouting "start killing cops"?
>
>Remember, "because I said so" is not evidence.

I was there and I heard them shouting those slogans.

If you ever got off your computer and actually went to one of these 
demonstrations, you would too, figure out what I said was true.

I posted the pictures to show that the ARA protested the police an I also 
posted pictures of the ARA members that Verbally Assulted me.

I will try to find audio clips some where of the ARA shoutign "start killing 
cops" and make a WAV out of it and upload it to here.




 
>> Why even waste you time with such a stupid post?
>> 
>> 
>> The last picture was the people who came up to me and verbally assulted me.
>
>How does the picture prove your claim that the people in the picture were,
>in fact, shouting "verbally assult[ing]" you?
>
>Remember, "because I said so" is not evidence.


As you can see in the picture the members had there faces covered and looked 
like they wanted trouble.

You will have to take my word that these people did in fact Verbally Assult 
me, since after all I was there and I was the one assulted.



Marc

Article 3177 of alt.politics.nationalism.white:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white
Subject: Pro-White and Politically Incorrect CD-ROMS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 10:54:54 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448m01$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[advertisement in which Mr. Lemire offers to sell copyrighted
material from the Toronto Sun and other sources for his own
profit deleted]
Article 4933 of can.politics:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: Canada's most controversial BBS
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:02:31 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 89
Message-ID: <448me8$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[bbs adv deleted]


Article 4980 of can.politics:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!fonorola!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: can.politics
Subject: politically incorrect cd-roms
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 95 11:01:21 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 217
Message-ID: <448mc4$qci@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts1-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

[identical advertisement about CD-ROM deleted]
Article 9594 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: David Irving speaks part 1 of 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:20:51 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 833
Message-ID: <44d7lg$pka@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9594 soc.culture.jewish:7563

              David Irving 

What you are about to read are facts the Holocaust lobby is 
desperately trying to hide from you.  If it didn't mean a lot to them 
they wouldn't be beating up on the audiences of David Irving and 
terrorizing property owners where he is to speak. Their aim is terror. 
Their masters are desperate to hide the truth.  The fate of Israel 
hangs on the holocaust lie.  Why this is, is revealed by David 
Irving. The net terrorists will do their worst to try to destroy his 
credibility.  But the facts are there.  See for yourself.  
                        Doyal@eskimo.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Attempts to shut down Revisionist viewpoints has been world wide.
They refuse to debate. They have issued an edict from Los Angeles or 
where ever the headquarters is saying, "On no account debate the 
Revisionists". On about 1970 or 1972 .. If you read the newspapers 
and books before 1970, you wont find the word "holocaust".  You wont 
find the word being used then. But of course, since then, they've taken 
it over. Haven't they?  They've taken over that word. Give it just 
that one meaning, Give it a capitol H at the front. You half expect to 
see a "tm" at the end of it because it has become a kind of trademark. 
        It many sound tasteless but think about it. The way that concept is 
being packaged, and marketed to us. It is being packaged with all the 
expertise and finesse of Tylenol. Capital "T", capitol "H", a little 
tm at the end. Don't open the package you. You're not allowed to 
examine the contents. If you do you are a holocaust denier.  
You may think this an extraordinary thing. But they will not let us 
use any word but the word "denial".  Because it makes us look like 
total twits. Because as the television media says, "Mr. Irving is 
accused of being a holocaust denier". Simultaneous they show the news 
reel film of the bulldozers, tipping the emaciated corpses into the 
pits. And the average tv viewer says "how can you deny it, we can 
see it with our own eyes." 
        Eye witnesses, there is another phrase they use. Holocaust, holocaust 
denier, eye witnesses. Eye witness evidence. The very phrase "eye 
witness" implies there was something for those eyes to witness.  
Therefore for anyone to challenges those eyewitnesses is also some 
kind of incorrigible twit. Eye witness news, channel 7. It exists.  
Tankers burning on the Long Island expressway. Eye witness news. These 
things really happen. 
        But eye witness reports, the only evidence that can be used against 
us... the dissident historians. I think they should be called "verbal 
testimony" or "oral statements" that is all they are, There is a 
subtle difference between "verbal statement" on one hand, and "eye 
witness report" on the other. That's how they do it.  
        The other word I am going to examine before the end of my talk, is 
the fourth word they've taken over and injected into the main stream 
english language.  And that is the word still written with a little 
"g" genocide. It is an important word because their whole cause 
revolves around that little word, "genocide". The real crimes, not 
only of WW2, but of all wars this century, and the times between the 
wars isn't genocide at all. For killing someone because of their race 
or religion. That isn't the crime that really concerns us. The real 
crime is what I call "innocencecide.". The killing of innocent people. 
This is the important factor. It is so simple when you consider it. 
        What made the crimes of Auschwitz, or Dachau, or Bergen Belsen, or 
Buchenwald, or Hiroshima, or Dresden or Coventry a crime, was the 
innocence of the victims.  What made the crime of Auschwitz, or what 
ever happened there at Babr Yar, was not their Jewishness, but their 
innocence. So why the word genocide?  Well the word genocide has been 
invented to limit it to crimes against people because of their race. That 
way they exclude all the other people around the world who also suffered. By 
implication they are not entitled to any kind of compensation. 
This is what it all boils down to. This is why basically the whole 
campaign has be unleashed against me, and a hand full of others, over 
the last 5 or 6 years, 
        I deeply regret making the mistake I made in 1988 when I first took 
this unexpected high road. In April 1988 when I gave evidence in a 
certain case in Toronto. It was a serious mistake, I never should 
have done it. Had I foreseen all this would happen to me and my 
family, then I never would have taken that step. I have to admit it. 
It is not one I would have willingly taken had I seen all this coming. 
        But the English, and I say this immodestly, we have a certain 
characteristic. I remember Australian television telephoning me in 
May this year, when I won another case yet against the Australian 
government. Because it is a worldwide fight. The government is trying 
to ban me and stop me from speaking. Australian Television which is 
on my side phoned me and said "Mr. Irving, why do you keep on doing 
this? Why are you spending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting 
the Australian government to get in and continue your lecture tour?  
Why are you continuing your campaign?  This crusade, this 
international campaign for Real History?"  The international campaign 
for real history of which this is the poster (holds up a large poster 
of David Irving) for the last two or thee years, around the  world. I 
replied to the Australian television commentator. I replied, "my 
opponents have misunderstood us, they have underestimated the 
English, The English march towards the sounds of gunfire, When we hear 
the sounds of gunfire we start marching towards those guns and we keep 
marching as long as the guns keep firing".  

If the Jewish community, internationally, against whom I personally 
bear no grudge, believe me, stopped their campaign against me, then I 
would stop marching. But as long as they do what they are doing in 
their  insensate way, and co ate(sp) way I will keep up the campaign the 
way I am doing it. 
        And so the fight has gone on world wide. Let me tell you some of the 
highlights since I last came and  spoke to you here in Oregon, in 
Gresham, In October 1992 two years ago, almost to the day. The first 
time I had been in Oregon to speak, wonderful audience the same kind 
of scum outside, hired, Someone pays them to demonstrate. These people 
don't come on their own volition. All that kind of thing takes money, 
Exactly the same kind of thing happens in Ireland, and elsewhere, and 
it is always the same people putting up the money to organize the 
demonstrations. 
        A few days after I spoke to you here in Oregon two years ago, I went 
up to Victoria on Vancouver Island, and I addressed the Canadian Free 
Speech League, which was good enough to award me the George Orwell 
plaque for freedom of speech. In recognition of my stand up to that 
point. Ten minutes after that award I was making my speech of thanks  
when eight Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers burst in and 
dragged me off in handcuffs. A really Orwellian scene you might 
admit.  
        Dragged off in handcuffs and for the next three weeks I had to fight 
a running battle. First of all in Vancouver. Held the  first two days in 
five different prisons so my own lawyer could not find me. That was 
after I spoke to you here. Then over to Niagara Falls, where I was 
last night, again arrested, again held in prison in Niagara Falls, 
finally flung onto the floor of a prison van on November the 13th, two 
years ago, then driven at high speed to Toronto airport, and put on a 
plane bound for London. At the orders of the minister Bernard Belcourt 
of Canada, 
        I know this because all across Canada I have friends, I have a lot of 
friends in Canada. One of these turned out to be the man in charge of 
the prison holding center at Toronto. The Pierce International 
Airport, at Toronto. He said, "Mr. Irving I have left your cell door 
open. I don't believe in what is going on here. I will not have you 
left in handcuffs. Until your plane comes this evening as far as i am 
concerned, you are free to come and go as you please. You can use 
the phone on the desk to call the radio and TV stations and the 
Media." Of course I did. I Said "why are you doing it?" and he said 
"Mr. Irving that phone has been ringing itself off the hook, All day 
today, I've had phone calls all day from the minister in person. To 
notify him the moment when your plane takes off bound for London."
        This is an indication the kind of clout our enemies wield when they 
can have a minister trembling, quivering, with fear, telephoning 
police officers at airports demanding to know when the dreaded enemy 
has left Canadian soil. And so it was in Australia too, I was supposed to go 
to Australia a few months later after I spoke to you, and carry on a 6 weeks 
speaking tour right across Australia in the campaign for Real History.  
Banned from Australia. Not allowed to set foot in Australia. But 
they underestimated us, our traditional enemy, because they made a 
mistake. 
        They had to admit at the end of three or four weeks, that 
they had lost the battle of the press against David Irving, We had won 
the battle because they do not control the press in Australia. Not 
like they do in a large part of the United States. That's not to say  
the entire United States is controlled by these elements, But 
significant parts of it is. Certainly in England, Certainly in Germany 
now. Certainly in Canada. But not in Australia. The Australian press 
is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and the Fairfax family. So our 
traditional enemies did not get diddly.  Every Australian newspaper 
ran horrified editorials about what was being done to me and why I was 
being kept out, and what was going on. So they began to investigate. 
So they found out that these people had been bankrolling Keatings 
labor party. They were the ones who had put up a large part of the 
election campaign funds. They were now calling in their markers and 
demanding I  be kept out. So I couldn't deliver my lectures across 
Australia. But we managed to get our message across just the same. 
We fought them in the Federal court in Australia and my 
lawyer, in Australia a very fine man called Ed Wall, said "Mr. Irving, 
assuming you lose the federal court action, why don't you prepare a 
video of the speech you would have made and we'll get the videos 
10,000 copies plastered across Australia. We'll hold premiers in the 
seven biggest cities on the day after the court finds against you. So 
we did that. The court found against me in the first instance. We had 
10,000 copies that video rushed in and our enemies tried to get the 
video prosecuted as an unlicensed video.  
        An interesting thing happened.  In two days we got the videos cleared 
by the Australian Video Censorship Board by paying the 2,000 dollars 
fee to get it rushed through in two days. A few weeks later the 
Australian press reported that a member of the Australian Parliament 
had asked a question in the Parliament about a hidden microphone that 
had been found planted in the Video Censorship boards office by the 
Israeli secret service. 
        This shows that we are up against governments here. There are people 
not just with private vested interests, like the Simon Wiesenthal 
Center in Los Angeles who are trying to suppress Real History, But 
governments who have their own vital interests at stake. Are doing 
what they can to silence me. And of course they wanted to know which 
member of the board had voted in favor of having the video released 
and whose against it. Eight had voted in favor and one in favor of 
total censorship of the video. And this is basically what we are up 
against world wide. People with colossal money. The Anti-Defamation 
League, which is a body probably familiar to some in this room, and 
certainly not unconnected with the mob outside. The Anti-Defamation 
League has an annual budget of $37,000,000. At their disposal, To 
prevent as it turns out Real History being put about. And yet they 
are losing the battle, because last April the American public was 
astonished to read in their papers that a Gallup poll had been taken 
which showed that 25% of the American public didn't believe in 
holocaust, They believed that quite possibly it didn't happen. What ever it 
was. A horrifying figure. A similar poll has now been taken in Australia, 
and thanks entirely to the efforts of my enemies down there 25% of the 
Australians also are now having second thoughts.   
        Should we doubt that version of history?  Well common sense dictates 
that there is probably sound reason to doubt. Why else would  
Hollywood make a movie called Schindler's List? It was because the 
Revisionists were gaining hand over foot in this particular debate.  
        It is an extraordinary thing.  They say we are not to be debated. 
They refuse to go on television programs with us in order to effectively to 
silence us. Because television in this country insist that both sides of a 
debate shall be heard. So by refusing to appear against us they effectively 
silence our voice too. Except for an occasional program like the 
Donnahue show. 

Part 2 coming up.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Let me make myself plain therefore straight away what my own personal 
position on that very narrow of part history, called the holocaust 
is. There is no doubt in my mind that very large numbers of Jews and 
others were massacred by the Nazis on the eastern front during WW2. 
There were machine gunned into pits, not only by the Germans,.. by the 
Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Latvians. There is no doubt in my mind this 
happened and I can give  plenty of reasons why. I'll give one example 
of it. The kind of sources I use, not just cheap eye witness 
evidence. But people telling me something against themselves. Hitler's 
film cameraman who took the wonderful color photographs. That are in 
the Hitler Biography which I have outside. Which some of you have now. 
Three thousand color photographs he took while on Hitler's private 
staff.  He is still alive living near lake Constance . 
        Over the years I was writing that book, fifteen or twenty years, I 
used to visit him, and gradually get him out of his shell and he would 
talk to me about these years. One morning, two or three in the 
morning, we're talking over a bottle of wine about these years. He 
recalled, with a certain degree of nostalgia, how Heinrich Himmler the 
chief of the SS once came to him at Hitler's headquarters and said, 
"Herr Prinz it's pretty  boring here in the wolf'S lair. Would you like 
to take a tour of the eastern front tomorrow and the next few days?"  
Prinz willing snapped up the idea and joined Himmler's motorcade.  
        They drove out to Minsk, behind the eastern 
front.  After a few days of touring police units there, Himmler said to 
Prinz " Herr Prinz tomorrow I'm going to go witness a mass execution.  
Would you, like to come along and watch too?"
        This is where I have to admit the German mentality differs from the 
English mentality. Because if Herr Himmler had said. Herr Irving would 
you like to watch a mass execution tomorrow? I think I would have found 
something urgent to do elsewhere. I would have suddenly remembered an 
urgent appointment elsewhere.  
        Not Herr Prinz.  Herr Prinz, expressed a prurient interest in what a  
  
mass execution looked like. So he went to have a look.  Next morning 
he found himself at one end of a field with Heinrich Himmler and 
another man who was a well known stage impresario. At the other end 
of the field a pit had been dug out and truck loads of people were 
being driven up an shot into it. He described this to me at two or 
three in the morning over a bottle of his best wine that had been 
brought up to celebrate the occasion of my visit from his cellar.  
Mrs. Prinz sitting at the other end of the sofa pricked up her ears 
and said. " Walter... You never told me this before."  He's run his 
mouth off a bit. He can't go back, He cant reel the words back in.  He 
apologized and thought he had told her once before. But obviously she 
has never heard this story in her life before. Mrs. Prinz probes a 
little deeper. She says. "Were women and children there, Walter?" And 
he can't remember.  But from his eyes it is quite plain he could 
remember quite well. Ten years later when I asked him to repeat the 
story again he repeated it in the same detail. In fact it was clear 
there were only women an children being shot that day.  
        To me that totally inexplicable crime, atrocity, did happen on the 
eastern front in Germany. Inexplicable to each one of us in this 
room.  We cant understand, that things like this happen in war.  We 
can't understand in the mind numbing brutality of war. We cant go 
inside a soldiers mind. What happened in the Vietnamese war for 
example. What happened to make Lt. Calley order all the villagers shot 
at Mei Lai. What makes that kind of thing happen I cant say. 
        Without examining it further. Suffice to say that kind of thing did 
happen.  You can take it from me and I think  it is therefore an insult  
for anybody to call me a holocaust denier. Because I have gone around 
the world describing episodes like that. But other isolated episodes 
on the eastern front where undoubtedly atrocities were committed.  
        But for the rest of the holocaust legend I don't buy it. Not one bit. 
I am not going to dwell on this appalling history of the war too much. 
But I know there are a few new faces here today, so I will tell you the 
reasons why you shouldn't believe it. Here is Auschwitz.  An air 
photograph of Auschwitz.  Magnificat quality of the photograph here. 
Look at it. Ten thousand meters up 30,000 feet up you can see the 
quality of this photograph. You can see people walking around in the 
streets, You can see the vans, You can see trucks. You can see the 
buildings, See the roofs of the buildings, Then you begin to see odd 
things. Things that are missing. Things that are missing from this 
beautiful phonograph of Auschwitz in 1944 that should be there. 
There are no openings in the roofs of the buildings which are 
identified now as the gas chambers. Through which according to all the 
eyewitnesses, the SS guards tipped pellets  to kill the hundreds of 
people in the gas chambers. You can see very clearly that those roofs 
are bare. There are no holes in the roofs. No openings.  


But if you go to Auschwitz now you can see that same building and 
there are square holes in the roof. And you wonder how they got there.  
The answer is, the Auschwitz State Museum will now rather shamefacedly 
admit. Yes they did reconstruct these buildings after the war. With 
Polish labor, to make them look like gas chambers as described by the 
so called eye witnesses. So what they show the tourists, is in fact a fake. 
Or what they call a reconstruction. A reconstruction in the sense of 
Disneyland. The fairy castle in Disneyland is a reconstruction. That is not 
to say the castle ever existed. 
        So it is in Auschwitz two.  And so you can prove it too from the 
photographs which were only released in the 1970s.  Until the mid 
1970s these "holocaust eyewitnesses " had no idea that the REAL  
eyewitness evidence existed in the form of the incontrovertible 
evidence of the cameras. There is more to it than that because on 
this photograph you will also find missing any huge mountains of coke. 
The Commandment of Auschwitz Rudolph Hoess said on some days he could 
killed 60,000 people a day and cremated 60,000 people a day. 
        It's easy to say that and I don't know why Rudolph Hoess said that,  
the Commandment of Auschwitz. I think it is for a psychiatrist to say 
why people say things under stress.  When they are being interrogated.  
Certainly, now in England, the trend is more and more away from 
confessions being used as evidence. 
        Rudolph Hoess for some reason unbeknown to us, said he killed 60,000 
people a day and cremated them. To cremate one body it takes 35 to 40 
kilograms of coke, ladies and gentlemen. In even the most efficient 
crematorium. 
        So to cremate 60,000 bodies you would need 2,000 tons of coke a day.  
A huge mountain of coke.  None of which is visible on these air 
photographs near the buildings identified as crematorium.  Not only in  
Auschwitz 1 but also here in Auschwitz 2  a rather larger scale 
picture of it taken from a greater height. Here is I G Farben factory.  
There is Auschwitz 1, again very tiny on this phonograph. Auschwitz 2 
also known as Berkineau.  
        We have also the same quality of photograph of Auschwitz 2.  Total 
absence of heaps of coke. No convoy of trucks lined up outside the 
crematoria bringing the enormous quantities of coke being consumed. 
No mountains of coke there, no railway lines bringing coke to the 
crematoria.  It's a hard fact.  

So what ever Rudolph Hoess said it's obviously a lie and I don't know 
why he said it. But the fact remains he couldn't have cremated 60,000 
bodies a day. Possibly 60,000 bodies in the entire  period of 
Auschwitz. During the war years, and I will come back to that 
speculation in a minute. 
        What else is not visible on the photograph?  There is no smoke. 
Remember the eyewitnesses who describe how the chimneys continuously 
spewed smoke? See Schindler's list, ashes flutter down and he flicks 
it off his lapel. None of this is visible on the photographs either, 
No columns of people lining up outside. No lines of people standing up 
outside the gas chambers, 
        All these things in the eyewitness accounts are missing in the 
phonographs.  So what did happen in Auschwitz?  Can we begin to 
speculate?  From hard evidence what I call real history. It is this 
word "Real History" which makes our enemies squirm and go chanting 
around the building here, in canting against us.  
        We,ll they've had an easy run for 45 years remember.  They had an 
easy run until Ernst Zundel.  You can think what you will about Ernst 
Zundel, But he is man of enormous personal courage and character. I 
personally stand up for him and I know he has been subjected to 
terrible vilification in the press both in U S and in Canada. He's a 
man who keeps his word, he is man who has a clear sense of mission and 
purpose. 
        Until he first began first probing this particular historical matter 
in the early 1980s, the traditional enemies of the truth, had a very 
clear run. In fact until about 5 yeas ago they even managed to get 
that old hoary propaganda myth believed world wide namely; that the 
Nazis had boiled down bodies of their enemies and converted them into 
bars of soap.
        Boiling down the Jews and making bars of soap. What kind of mind can 
invent that propaganda lie? What kind of incorrigible belief that 
people would want to wash with bars of soap that had been made that 
way? But it gets worse than that, because in Nuremberg they actually 
introduced bars of soap into evidence. They actually had bars of soap 
introduced as evidence. Physical evidence in Nuremberg of what Nazis 
had done to the Jews. And in recent years they actually buried bars 
of soap in concentrated ground in Israel. Chanted the kaddish. the 
funeral dirge, over these bars of soap buried in Israel.  But in 1985 
Yad Vashem Institute finally admitted the whole thing was a propaganda 
lie.  That there never had been bars of soap made by the Nazis. But 
even then they incorrigibly said it was a Nazi lie.
        Which again is mind bendingly devious. A Nazi propaganda lie that 
these bars existed. They didn't. No bars of soap was manufactured 
from the bodies of Jews or anybody else. This is just one example of 
the lies that has been  circulated by the so called historians since 
WW2.  
        So we have a terrible problem. The historians now,(have a  problem) 
because world wide laws are being passed to reinforce these lies. In France, 
for example it would be a criminal offense, to question even now the bars of 
soap story.  Because in France on 14th of July 1990 President Mitterand 
signed into law, a law which had been drafted by a communist named 
Gaither, which makes it a criminal offense to question crimes against  
humanity as defined in the Nuremberg trials. Of course the bars of 
soap was introduced into evidence in the Nuremberg trials.
Believe me Ladies and Gentlemen, this is no idle anecdote.  I have now 
been summoned to appear in the courts in Paris. On August 8th I 
received through the British Government channels all the French 
prosecuting papers for me to be prosecuted in the courts in France. The 
hearing to be held on August 8th. I don't know what happened as I 
didn't go. Because of this. In the fastness of home in London. In 
Mayfair. In Grosvenor Square. A hundred yards from the American 
Embassy. Where the Stars and Strips permanently fly atop the building.  
In my own home in London, I gave an interview to a French Journalist. 
Which then printed in that interview in Paris. That Mr. Irving has said, 
in his opinion the Gas Chambers in Auschwitz shown the tourists, are 
fakes. Constructed by the Poles after the war. Which is true of 
course, because the Poles have admitted it. But of course it challenges the 
crimes against humanity as defined by the Nuremberg Tribunal.
         But I'm saying this in London. Just talking to a Journalist in my 
own home.  No matter, I am to be prosecuted. So I received the papers, 
the indictment, the charge sheet, and everything right through the 
mail in London. Here is the ultimate irony. I could have brought it 
here and showed it to you.  I have it in the back. I will show it if 
you want. The charge which is sent to me in French. Says, "You are 
accused of having said in an interview with a journalist of (French 
Journalist) Paris. The following; That in your opinion the dot,dot,dot, 
(censored) by the Gaither law, dot, dot, dot,  did no exist.  That is in the 
actual charge sheet for this criminal hearing. They wont actually use the 
word in the charge sheet, of the magistrates court in Paris. And there is a 
reason for it of course, because you must remember the penalty is not 
the 2 or 3 thousand franc fine they impose in you. But the magistrate 
orders you are then to publish the hearings findings, the judgements 
in 8 or 10 national newspapers of France at your expense. That is the 
penalty of course. A colossal cost involved in publishing a display 
advertisement. It reminds of the old German custom of, not only in 
the 3rd Reich, but before, a bill was sent to the executed man for the 
price of the bullet that shot him. This is the same kind of thing you 
are made to pay the cost of the advertising your own penalty.  Of 
course it would be counter productive if the advertisement would 
include the fact that I had challenged the gas chambers. So under the 
Gaither law I am not even allowed to include that in the penalty.  
You living here in America, thank God the land of free speech, the 
land of the first amendment, Thank God, Thank God, Thank God.  I can 
come here and speak freely. Within the law. You are entitled to 
listen to me. Within the law 

See part 3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          Part 4

It's incredible for you to understand that these kinds of things can 
happen, around  the world. In the other countries, the so called  
democracies of the free world. January last year 1993, after I last 
spoke to you. I was fined by the German courts 22,000  dollars for 
expressing the opinion the gas chambers shown the tourists at 
Auschwitz is a fake. Which is true of course. The director of the 
Auschwitz State Archives has written a letter to a Jewish historian in 
New Zealand, which he as been man enough to publish, that it is true. 
It's a reconstruction. And yet I have been fined 22,000 dollars for 
saying it. For expressing an opinion, Of fact, as a historian. 
Because I am incorrigible.. Because I still  adhere to that opinion... 
Because I refuse to recant, the minister of the interior in Germany on  
July 1st last year, when I was visiting the German  Federal Archives, 
ordered that I was to be permanently excluded from the German Federal 
Archives. 
        Imagine what would happen in this country if president Clinton  or 
Janet Reno or someone like that was to order that some historian was 
to permanently barred from the National Archives in Washington DC.  
Imagine the outcry, if as in my case, the German government announced 
the reason for my being banned because it was important to protect 
the interests of the German Federal Republic. How can it damage the 
interests of the German Federal Republic to have a historian working  
in the German archives?  Presumably one can only research the truth.  
Well, probably because the truth is not what the German government is 
interested in. 
        The German Government has egg over its face because the German 
Government has for the last 40 years been paying nearly 1 billion 
dollars a year to the state of Israel in reparations which now has 
turned out to be a fake gas chamber. That's basically what it is all 
about. The German government is trying to conceal the fact as long as 
possible. And they use increasingly vicious methods. November 9th last 
year, when I went to Munich to address university students. One phone 
call from me in Alabama, where I was speaking at the university of 
Huntsville to the organizers in Munich, I arranged a certain 
rendezvous at a certain meeting point at Mervin Pick restaurant. 
When I got there at the appointed time three days later, the Munich 
security police were already waiting for me. They had obviously 
tapped the telephone of the people involved. They handed me a document 
permanently banning me and excluding me from Germany for the rest of 
my life.  
        Now what is the German government frightened of?  I'm not a 
firebrand. I'm not a revolutionary, I don't go around carrying bombs in my 
suitcase. I've done far less things to Germany than many a 
immigrant has done or traveler has done there over the past 40 years. 
        Yet they have visited these privations and persecutions on me, and me 
alone. No nother historian world wide has ever been banned from the 
German archives.  
        Why?  But of course to their horror they find out they are the people 
suffering.  Because the German archives over the last 30 years has 
benefited from me to an enormous degree. I've donated to the German 
archives half a ton of records. The entire diaries of Field marshall 
Rommel, Diaries of Heinrich Himmler, The entire original papers of 
Adolph Eichmann. Which I found in Argentina two years ago. All these 
things I've  generously and selflessly given to the German people. And 
that is the way they answer me back and kick me in the teeth. And now 
the German archives been ordered by the law courts to turn this 
material over to me at the German taxpayers expense. Half a ton of 
material.  
        It is an extraordinary situation and you would imagine that the 
German newspapers would be full of it. The same as you would think the 
English newspapers would be full of my victory over the Australian 
government. My new fight against the South African government.  The 
fact that on July 29 I started a new fight against the Canadian 
government gainst the injustice of the deportation. Because, in the 
meantime, we have found some of the methods used by the Canadian 
authorities to set me up. But it is being hushed up and silenced 
world wide. This entire extraordinary fight.  
        I have to admit that this is what I find the most thought provoking 
matter. I never used to believe in international conspiracies. I still 
don't want to believe in international conspiracies. It is not a 
conspiracy really. It is a network. It is a network of incredible 
complexity and influence and forcefulness. I didn't realize this 
until I began, with the assistance of very large numbers of people 
around the world. In my fighting fund we have 3000 or 4,000 people 
assisting me in this incredible battle now.  
        We began forcing governments to open their files. We got court orders 
in Australia ordering Paul Keating, the prime minister, to open his 
files on David Irving.  We just got a court order in Canada, under the 
access to information act, ordering the Canadian government to open 
the files on David irving. We did the same in South Africa. They are
spilling out worms all over the table as we open these files. 
        Its incredible what we find. A Jewish historian in England, Professor 
Jerald Fleming, born in Breslau. Jerald Fleming his English name.  
For the last 20 years we've been in collegial contact with each other. 
Corresponding, Exchanging data, notes, facts in the most friendly 
way.  His letters getting a little bit oily at times, but alright  we 
can stand that. It was a useful friendship. At the same time, I find in 
the Canadian governments files he's written note to the Jewish 
authorities in London demanding that I should be prosecuted and 
imprisoned by the German Government at the earliest opportunity.  He 
doesn't know I have that letter yet. I don't know what it is doing in 
the Canadian government files. An internal letter in England from this 
man to the Jewish authorities in England.  But it is there.  
        And so it is in Australia. We opened the Australian government 
files and we find them conniving with the German government. And the 
Austrian government. And the South African government on ways of 
shutting me up and imprisoning me. 
        February 11th of this year. I'm working that afternoon in my 
apartment.  When there is a knock on the door and I look in my little 
television monitor and there are some policemen down there. I think they have 
come about an episode where my car was smashed by these same thuggish 
types in Brighton in December. The man's case came up a few weeks ago. 
But no the police came in to my apartment. I said how can I help you 
and the policeman said "Mr. Irving we are ordered to take you to 
Pentionville for three months."  Yes indeed! Ordered to take me to 
Pentionville prison on February 11 this year for three months. No 
court hearing. No judge. No trial, no nothing. I say what is this all 
about?  The policeman said "we are very sorry Mr. Irving".  (All the 
police know me in Mayfair know me.)  How may times have they stood at 
the barricades outside my apartment protecting my apartment. From a 
mob of one, or two or three thousand  demonstrators. All The scum. 
The homosexuals, the gypsies, the lesbians, the jews, the blacks, the 
immigrants. All coming together in a paid mob. To harass, to frighten 
to intimidate. Rather like the scum here today. The police stood 
there on the barricades and is quite plain whose side they are on.  
They had come with orders to arrest me and take me to prison. And so 
they did. Straight off to prison in Pentionville which is one of 
Victorias most gloomy and nasty prisons. 
        Very Interesting.  I was there for two weeks..It took me a week to 
get in touch with a lawyer. It took me another week to get in front of a 
Judge who ordered my instant release. In the private papers of the prime 
minister of Australia, Paul Keating we find the transcript of that hearing, 
which I wasn't attending. Where the judge ordered that I be sent to prison. 
Why Paul Keating has taken in interest in this I don't know. It costs an 
awful lot of money to get a transcript of court hearings in England. He got 
it also illegally because it was in the prohibited period. When you cant get 
that kind of document.  But he got it. 
        I find for the first time. When these documents are delivered to me 
a few weeks ago. That the people who put me in prison applied for me to 
be sent to prison for two years. For contempt of court. Contempt of 
what court?  Contempt of what order? I was never served with any kind 
of papers, documents or anything. 
        If I had been sent to prison for two years, I would have been 
silenced for two years. That what it was all about. Instead of course 
I put these two weeks to good use. I've traveled a great deal around 
the outside world. Both sides of the Iron Curtain for many years. And so I 
had two weeks in the inside world. And a chance to meet a lot of very 
interesting people as well. I'd like to tell you some of the 
anecdotes of what happened in prison but it would be out of place 
here. Suffice to say that life is full of surprises. When I last 
spoke to you of course two years ago I never realized that a prison 
term would come between then and now. 
        But it was a very interesting experience. The prisoners and officers 
lined up to shake my hand. The officer would come into my cell. They 
said they were not allowed to shake my hand in public. 
        After two or three days they brought my books.  All of them had my 
books at home. Some had my Rommel biography or something. They brought 
them in for me to sign. I began to get fan mail from all the other 
prisons. Turns out I had quite a little support in other prisons. 
        So it quite a useful experience. I'm glad it didn't last any longer 
than it did. 
        But it was food for thought. For I thought how many other historians 
had been sent to prison to shut them up? Why isn't the press saying 
anything about it?  We'll eventually some of the liberal newspapers 
like the Guardian did raise voices in protest and say what is going 
on. I didn't know what was going on until I saw Paul Keatings papers 
on this. 


See part 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Part 5


        I've now assembled enough material, world wide from these various 
court ordered discloser of government files, that I am able now to 
write  pretty impressive booklet that will come out in a few weeks 
time called Vendetta giving the whole inside story of this world wide 
attempt to silence us. But of course they failed and this is the 
glorious thing. We are winning the battle. I said two years ago that 
the fight  would only  last two years. I underestimated their 
tenacity. I think probably another year from now eventually our  
enemy will give up this particular battle. The signs are clearly 
there. What they're doing now are measures of desperation. If you 
followed the scene in Germany at all, extraordinary things are 
happening. You would imagine Germany would be the bastion of the free 
world after its experiences of two world wars and the Third Reich and 
Hitler, the Nazis and all the rest. 
        But in fact nothing has changed in  Germany. In my opinion. 
Certainly not in the legal system, Certainly not since the end  of the first 
World War. The legal system is unchanged. They still click their 
heels and obey orders from above. The only thing missing now 
is they don't have to wear the arm bands any more. There has been some 
graphic demonstrations of this in the last few weeks. 
        I've witnessed a lot of hardships in Germany I must say. Inflicted 
not on me but on those who followed me in one way or another. When I was 
fined in January of last year 22,000 dollars, A Nurnberg school 
teacher wrote a letter to a Bavarian television station, to protest 
about the tone of their news bulletins. Which they had gleefully 
announced the fine imposed on me. The Bavarian television station was 
good enough and decent enough to pass his letter on to Bavarian 
minister of culture who is their direct superior in the education 
system. And he was dismissed. Man of my age, totally without a 
future now, no pension, no job no livelihood. Purely because he  had 
written a letter of protest to a television station.  
        Quite a common occurrence. You wonder why they take photographs of 
you when you come in here? In Germany it has become systematic. A school 
teacher sitting in the front row of one of my audiences, three or 
four years ago, somewhere near Hanover. Her face appeared on the 
evening Television bulletin and she was dismissed the next day. She 
only attended out of curiosity. Wanted to see what I had to say. She 
was dismissed for sitting in an audience. The Gunther Deckert case is 
the most pregnant example of the way Germany is drifting. A Jewish 
historian in New Zealand of whom I'm most friendly who has 
investigated this case world wide, now has written in a doctoral 
dissertation that Germany's record in the human rights league is a 
miserable one indeed.  The Deckert Case I think is the most appalling 
example.  
        Gunther Deckert a school teacher who many years ago already lost his 
job a because of his opinions, imagine that. Imagine that happening 
in the United States. Imagine a school teacher being fired for his 
opinions. Happens in Canada of course, but not yet in the United 
States.Not officially anyway. Gunther Deckert officially dismissed in 
Germany because having the wrong opinions as a school teacher. He 
became the leader of the right wing Nationalist Party in Germany, a 
constitutional party. Like many of the active parties in Germany. Not 
illegal in any way. And of course as such an anathema for the liberal 
German media. He translated the lecture delivered by Fred Leuchter in 
Mannheim in November  1991. 
        Fred Leuchter as nearly all of you know is the American consultant on 
American gas chambers technology who was sent to Auschwitz to investigate the 
so called gas chambers by Ernst Zundel. Fred Leuchter is the world expert on 
gas chambers. And on gassing human beings. He brought back 30 samples from 
the brick work of the Auschwitz gas 
chambers. And subjected these holy relics to forensic test in 
laboratories in the Unites States. With the results you all know that 
there was no trace of cyanide gas what so ever from in these samples. 
        Fred Leuchter has had his life and career ruined by the traditional 
enemy of the truth. That is not the point here. In November 1991 Fred 
Leuchter was lecturing in Mannheim, he doesn't speak German, so his 
lecture was being translated by Gunther Deckert, the school teacher I 
just mentioned. For interpreting that lecture Gunther Deckert was 
sentenced to one year in prison and fined $7,000. This is a democracy, 
This is Germany, This is the way things are going in Germany now.  I 
personally don't care what Deckert said or wrote or interpreted, I 
don't think people should be imprisoned for expressing their opinions. 
I don't think people should be fined colossal sums of money for 
expressing their opinions as long as they are not inciting race hatred 
or incitement to break the law. 
        The judges in Germany who heard the appeal of Gunther Deckert this 
summer evidently agreed, because although they found no alternative 
but to uphold the sentence, one year imposed on Deckert, they 
suspended it. In their written judgement which they finally published, 
a month  or two later, in the middle of August, this year, the two 
judges, one who was Muller, the chairman of the court. said that the 
reason for suspending the sentence and treating Deckert relatively 
lenient was because he had acted as a patriot. Because he had done 
what he did in Germany's interests and because he like many other 
Germans was being thoroughly fed up with what was being done to 
Germany. By Israel in the sense of continually pestering them for 
financial compensation. From the actual culprits and perpetrators of 
the holocaust. From their sons and daughters and grandsons and 
granddaughters. And the Judges said in their verdict, obviously they 
had a certain degree of sympathy for Deckert, having done it for these 
reasons. They understood why he had done it.
        The result of course next day was outcry and uproar in the German 
liberal news media. They demanded the heads of these two judges and 
the German minister of justice.  A woman, a liberal member of the 
Liberal party in Germany. She said found these two judges verdict 
shameful, and she would expect decisions to be taken. Sure enough 
these two judges were dismissed a few days later for health reasons.  
They fought back and pointed out the were not ill. A few weeks later   
they had to be given their jobs back. But it gets worse.  The 
prosecutor in that case in Germany, a man called Klein, insisted that 
these two judges have their verdicts closely scrutinized to see if 
they too could be prosecuted under the same laws.  
        What an extraordinary case. It's like Animal Farm. If any of you 
have read Animal Farm, The prosecutor can say, you have handed down a 
verdict, which I as a prosecutor disagree, I am going to look and see 
if I cant have you two put in prison too. What an extraordinary 
situation. 
       I think this is what finally brought the house down in Germany. 
Because a lot of thinking people to wonder which way Germany was 
drifting. And Germany is drifting in very odd directions now. The 
coming elections are going to show. In very alarming directions.


But the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Germany's serious and 
respected newspaper. I'm sure there is not a newspaper in Europe that 
carries as much  authority and weight as the Frankfurter Allgeminer 
Zeitung, has finally seen the light of day and this is why my one 
year estimate us very close to the mark.  
        The Frankfurter Allgeminer Zeitung, for the last three or four 
months, has begun publishing editorials coming down in favor of the 
Revisionists. Suggesting that the sentences are too harsh. A few weeks 
ago they published a half page article by professor Hans Nolte. Nolte 
how has hitherto been a very cautious historian in Germany. Not 
one to come out whole heatedly waving his flag on our behalf. But now 
professor Hans Nolte has said, in this half page article, which the 
newspaper published unchanged. That the revisionists, as he 
understands them, do have a case which has to be answered. He himself 
does not know the answer to the resvisonists.  But he thinks the 
establishment historians should now try to cobble together some kind 
of joint answer to the Revisionists. Because it is no longer enough to 
practical to use methods of brute force,and legal terrorism, against them to 
silence them.  That was the gist of the half page article in the 
Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.  
        And of course it is not what he published.  What he wrote.  But the 
fact that the newspaper published it. They published a letter a few days 
later from a young man called Gherman  Rudloph.  Gherman Rudolph 
wrote this letter pointing out this and that about the revisionists 
which he is proud to be one. At the end of the letter he included the 
sentence "please don't publish the above letter if it in so doing it 
is found that I have inadvertently broken the law". Of course the 
newspaper, very tongue in cheek, published the letter in full 
including the last sentence. Just to give the readers a bit of a jolt 
which way Germany is going. 
The leading newspapers of the calibre of the Frankfurter Allgemeine 
Zeitung might turn out to have inadvertently broken the law by 
publishing the readers letter.  
        What a strange state of affairs.  How exciting it is. Three or four 
years ago Robert Faurisson the French dissident Revisionist historian,  
who has had acid poured in his eyes. Jaw broken so badly by three 
Jewish thugs when he was walking his dog in a park in Vichy in France. 
4 years ago so badly his jaw it had to be wired together for 6 months.
They poured sulfuric acid in his eyes as well. Same kind of people outside 
spitting at me just now. That's the methods they use. Faurrison coined the 
phrase The Intellectual Adventure. And that is what it really is. 
        From where we stand we can see a world of innocent people. Millions. 
Hundreds of millions innocent people who are innocently believing in a 
legend.  Believing it to be true because they in turn had been told it 
by plausible people who believed it in turn by people who told it to 
them. 
        It's something like a religion in other words, The intellectual 
adventure is that we are reversing this entire trend within the space 
of one generation. That in a few years time no one  will believe 
this particular legend any more. They will all say as I do, that 
atrocities were committed. Yes hundreds of thousands were killed, but 
there were no factories of death. All that is a blood libel against 
the German People. Which the german government, I can not 
understand, has willfully tolerated for the last 50 years. And that 
is one of the real mysteries should be investigated.  Why the German 
Government has put up with it. Against its own people. Not only put up 
with it, but has stamped out people like me. Leuchter, Faurisson, 
Ernst Zundel and the rest,  Who have tried to challenge that legend.  
        Ghermann Rudolph is the most inspiring example 
because more and more young Germans are coming around to our cause.
Ghermann Rudolph, brilliant chemist at the Max Plank Institute, expert 
in solid state chemistry. He was brought in the defense of one of 
these miserable trials in Germany. One of these teachers who 
questioned the holocaust. The defense team brought in Ghermann Rudolph 
in as the expert in solid state chemistry to prove that there should 
have been some trace cyanide compound left in the brick work at 
Auschwitz, after fifty years. He did it easily as a part of his 
doctoral dissertation. He proved without doubt the brickwork in the 
Auschwitz gas chambers, crematories, so called, contained enough iron 
to create a compound called Prussian Blue. Berliner Blau. Dye 
stuff. So permanent nothing would wash it out. No wind, no rain no 
tempest would wash out the  trace of cyanide from the brick work of 
the gas chambers if it was there in the first place. Of course writing 
that in his doctoral dissertation his professor said "Rudolph I think 
you are in for a sticky ride. But I admire what you are doing."  Not 
in public but in private. He went ahead with his dissertation and he 
submitted his samples. For he too went to Auschwitz and carried out 
the tests and  brought back the forensic sample. He submitted his 
samples to a well known forensic laboratory in Germany but made the 
mistake of submitting it on the stationery of the Max Planck Institute 
of which he was an employee. Which gave the Institute the grounds to 
fire him. Which it did.  He did the interesting thing he sued the 
institute for wrongful dismissal in the Industrial Tribunal of 
Germany. The Max Planck Institute of Germany which was thoroughly fed 
up which had been done to one of its finest scientists, decided to 
open all it's records in the process called discovery. Among its 
files, was a whole treasure hoard of letters written to it by the 
Jewish leaders of Germany. Demanding that Ghermann should be 
dismissed. They had to bow to pressure and knuckle under and agree to 
the dismissal of Ghermann Rudolph. Willingly, gleefully, they made these 
letters public. Planck ends with these words when writing back to the head of 
the Jewish committee in Berlin saying, "We have now dismissed Herr Rudolph 
we now hope this makes you satisfied."  In exactly that tone of voice.  
These letters were then published.  
        It is worth mentioning incidentally, the head of the Jewish committee 
is Germany.  The Jewish Council in Germany, Ignas Bubis is a criminal 
with a conviction of a 12 year sentence of racketeering. He didn't 
serve it. He jumped bail and fled before he could be put in prison.  
But every time around the world I hear that David Irving is a criminal 
which is what the Jewish Committee says about me. To get me banned 
from South Africa or some other country I reply. "I may be a criminal 
but my crime I am proud of. My crime was telling the truth, Expressing 
an opinion which turns out to be true. Where the head of their 
community his crime is a real crime. Sentenced to 12 years in prison." 
Which he has yet to serve. 

           See Part 6




Article 9596 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!gatech!paladin.american.edu!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers by David Irving - Part 1 of 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:26:34 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 491
Message-ID: <44d7vu$pka@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9596 soc.culture.jewish:7569

From _The Journal of Historical Review_, Vol. 13, Number 2 (Mar./Apr. 1993):


              The Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers

                              David Irving

        (Presented at the Eleventh IHR Conference, October 1992)



Twice this year I've come under the scrutiny of journalists, entirely
through no doing of my own.  The first occasion was my acquisition of the
Eichmann papers, about which I'll be speaking shortly.  The second occasion
was in regard to the papers of Dr. Joseph Goebbels.  I'll show you the
Goebbels papers first because these have aroused enormous interest.  It
came about like this:


The Goebbels Diaries

   On May 6th, 1992, while I was researching at the archives of the
Institute of Contemporary History in Munich -- once again, "illegally" on
German soil -- a good friend whom I've known for thirty years lunched with
me and said, "David, I've been working in the Moscow state secret archives,
and I've found the glass plates on which are microfilmed the ENTIRE diaries
of Dr. Joseph Goebbels."

   At this, of course, my ears pricked up because any historian worth his
salt will tell you that the published Goebbels diaries are complete except
for everything that matters.  Few of the most important portions have been
published so far: the November 1938 KRISTALLNACHT ("Night of broken
glass"), the 1934 Rohm purge ("Night of the long knives"), the outbreak of
the war in 1939, the Pearl Harbor attack, you name it -- it is not in the
published volumes that came out in the 1950s, the 1970s or the 1980s.  They
hadn't got everything that mattered.  We thought this was because the
Soviets were holding onto the good stuff, to sell it for really top dollar
later on.  But that was not the case.  It was just the typical Communist,
Marxist-Leninist chaos.  They didn't know themselves what they had.

   The diaries were recorded on Agfa glass plates stored in boxes: here are
my color photographs of one of the original boxes.  You can see the
handwriting on it of Dr. Richard Otte, Goebbel's own secretary, which my
source immediately recognized.  Historians of the period all knew that
during the final weeks of the war, Goebbels feared that his priceless
diaries might be burned to a frizzle in some thoughtless British air raid.
So he took the precaution of having them microfilmed on these glass plates,
which at that time was a totally new system.  We knew that these glass
plates existed somewhere, and we've been looking for them.  Actually, we
couldn't just look for them because no one knew where to look.  But if you
stumbled across them, you'd know what they are, rather like the diaries of
Admiral Canaris.

___________________________________________________________________________

DAVID IRVING, acknowledged by _The Times_ of London as "one of Britain's
foremost historians," is the author of more than two dozen published works
on 20th-century history, including _Hess: The Missing Years_, _Uprising:
Hungary 1956_, _Hitler's War_, _Churchill's War_ and _Goring: A Biography_
(all available from the IHR).  Irving has addressed four IHR conferences.
___________________________________________________________________________


   So in Munich 1992 my source stumbled across these boxes in the Moscow
archives, and recognized them for what they were.  (You'll notice that I
don't mention this person's name, because I don't want to get him or her
into any trouble.)

   My source's own institute, the Institute of Contemporary History
(Institut fur Zeitgeschichte) in Munich -- my deadliest enemies now --
refused to finance a further expedition for my source to go back to Moscow
to purchase these 1,600 glass plates.

   There are 92 boxes of these glass plates.  Ninety-two boxes, just
loosely bundled up with string.  The glass plates are not in very good
condition.  They've got fragments of glass splinters between them and
they're often badly scratched.  But they are entirely legible.

   My source suggested that I raise the money to visit Moscow to get hold
of these glass plates.  I contacted my American publisher, Avon Books, and
for ten days they acted very enthusiastic.  I estimated that I'd need about
$20,000 in order to buy the glass plates outright from the Russian
archivists.  They need money so badly just to keep the archives running,
they have to sell off the family silver bit by bit, so to speak.  I thought
that $20,000 was a very reasonable price.

   Suddenly, though, the bubble popped.  Word came down from the upper
levels at Avon books that they wouldn't finance my trip to Moscow to get
these plates.  They feared that it involved "bribing" Russian officials, or
something unethical.  So next I approached my British publishers, Macmillan
London, Ltd., and within two hours received the same answer.  Perhaps it
was decided that they wouldn't help provide David Irving with this scoop.

   So I approached the _Sunday Times_, which is Britain's biggest, most
serious, and most respected newspaper.  They immediately agreed to finance
an initial expedition to Moscow for me to have a look at these glass
plates.  A week later, I returned to London having not only looked at the
plates, but having copied hundreds of pages from them -- everything that
mattered except for a few gaps.

   When I then reached an agreement with the _Sunday Times_, they insisted
that I not breathe a word to anyone about this arrangement.  As _Sunday
Times_ editor Andrew Neil told me, "Irving, my staff are not happy that we
are doing this deal with you."  I replied, "Well, you've got no choice,
have you?  Because it's my project."

   If you read the newspaper accounts afterwards, you get the impression
that this was the _Sunday Times_' project, and that they had picked me for
it because I'm the only person who can read Goebbels' handwriting.  Well,
later, when the big fight started, they were hoist by their own petard
because the fight in Britain became horrendous and hairy.  [See the _IHR
Newsletter_, Oct. 1992, p. 5.]


The Controversy Begins

   If, perversely, you wanted to upset the Jewish community in Britain,
what would you do?  The first thing I would do is go out to all the Jewish
ghettos in London, like Stamford Hill or Golders Green, and I would put up
60-foot-long posters in the Nazi colors with 15-foot swastikas, a
photograph of Dr. Goebbels, and the slogan running right across in gothic
script: WHEN WE DEPART, LET THE EARTH TREMBLE.  This is precisely what the
_Sunday Times_ did to advertise their David Irving series!

   The Jewish community frantically organized ten-man-strong gangs to go
out and deface these posters.  But as fast as they desecrated, the _Sunday
Times_ went 'round renewing them.  This went on for a week until finally
the community concerned, our traditional enemies, brought their traditional
pressures to bear on the _Sunday Times_.  As Mark Weber mentioned, they
themselves admitted this pressure, not only from the English community, but
the American Jewish community as well, because the _Sunday Times_ is
particularly vulnerable.  Much of their finance comes from their American
banking system, and much of the advertising in Britain is dependent on this
particular community.  The community left Andrew Neil, the editor, with no
doubt at all of their displeasure.  He told me at the height of this crisis
that he had never been through such a nightmare in his life.

   In consequence of this pressure the _Sunday Times_ had to turn the
entire campaign around against me, their own contributor, and try to
pretend that it was THEIR material, and that they were obliged to call me
in because I was the only person who could read the handwriting.  Let me
just show you what the glass pages produce.  Dr. Goebbels' diaries were
recorded in miniature on glass plates; this is the contact print of one of
the glass plates.  As you see, it's fifty pages of the diaries in
handwriting, very, very small.  The first week I was there I had no easy
means of reading them because there was no microfilm reader in Moscow.  But
by chance I had a tiny little 12x magnifying glass with me, as large as my
fingernail, and with that I could read those glass plates for the next
week.

   Some of them we borrowed, with the permission of the archivist, and had
them blown up to produce these photographs.  You can see later on, those of
you who read German, that Dr. Goebbels' handwriting is truly illegible.  It
took me two years to learn to read it.  When the _Sunday Times_ said,
"Irving is one of the three people in the world who can read Goebbels'
handwriting," our rivals scoffed and said, "That's utter baloney, any
German of that generation can read his handwriting."  So I sent pages of
the diary to these rival journalists, and I said, "I'll pay you a thousand
pounds if, within two weeks, you can supply me with a transcript of one
page with fewer than 50 percent errors."  Not one of them took me up on it.
The _Daily Mail_, a rival of the _Sunday Times_, thought they'd scooped us
by paying 20,000 pounds to purchase a few pages of the diary from the
Institute of Contemporary History in Munich, who were determined to spite
me.  The _Daily Mail_ took their precious pages and hurried off back to
London to get to work on them, only to find to their horror that their
people could not read the pages they'd paid 20,000 pounds for!  I had some
happy moments during that July of 1992, as you can believe.

[Photograph captioned, "Joseph Goebbels (right) with armaments minister
Albert Speer (left) and labor leader Robert Ley at a mass meeting in Berlin
in 1943 to honor outstanding workers."]

   Mark [Weber] mentioned the publicity that surrounded this affair, and
it's true: during those two weeks alone, I collected two thousand press
clippings from around the world.  It was exactly the same back in January
when the Eichmann papers scandal broke.  You see, when I was in Argentina
in October [1991] delivering lectures in English and Spanish to audiences
down there, one of those odd strokes of luck happened.  When you're an
internationally known historian, or when you're notorious, people come up
to you and ask, "Are you interested in this?"

   Thus, an American autograph collector wrote to me a few weeks ago
saying, "I've got Heinrich Himmler's 1939 diary.  Would you like to have a
look at it?"  This kind of thing happens.


The Eichmann Memoirs

   If you go to London at present, around the West End where I live you'll
find every parking meter, every lamppost, every traffic standard, every
traffic light have got stickers on them saying "Smash David Irving," "Stop
Irving," or "Irving Speaks, Rostock Burns."  Behind this is a group that
calls itself CAFE, the Committee Against Fascism in Europe, which the
_Daily Express_ tells me is in fact a front for the Mossad.  They've gone
'round putting up these stickers all over the West End of London
advertising mass-meetings outside my home, and very kindly giving my
address.

   I'm grateful to them because recently I got a letter from a Greek
publisher saying, "Mr. Irving, I've been trying for a year to contact you
through your publishers so that I can make an offer for the rights to your
Adolf Hitler biography, and your publishers were unwilling to let us have
your address.  As I was in London shopping a few days ago, I happened to
notice a sticker on which your opponents put your address, so I am happy
now to make an offer on your book."  This is what happens.

   So, being notorious has its advantages.  When I was in Argentina, in
October [1991], a man who had written me vaguely a couple of years before,
mentioning papers that he thought I ought to see, came up to me at the end
of one meeting.  The next day he came back and gave me two bulky brown-
paper parcels which turned out to contain the writings of Adolf Eichmann
when he was in hiding in Argentina in the late 1950s.  Adolf Eichmann, of
course, is now the man with whom the public most associates what they call
the "Holocaust."

   I hate that word.  It's a word I don't like using.  People say to me,
"Mr. Irving, do you believe in the Holocaust?  Do you deny the Holocaust?"
I say that I mistrust words with a capital letter.  They look like a
trademark, don't they?  Like Tylenol or something.  We don't trust them; no
matter how much advertising they put into Tylenol.  And so it is with that
word "Holocaust."  You get the impression that it is a neatly packaged,
highly promoted operation, and you don't trust it.

   Eichmann was born on the 19th of March, 1906.  As an SS Lieutenant
Colonel (OBERSTURMBANNFUHRER), he was a specialist of the Jewish question.
He looked upon the Jews with that same mixture of admiration and fear
shared by most of the non-Jewish population around the world.

   He went to Palestine in 1937 after he was made an officer in the SS, and
he actually  (we have his own record of this) entered into negotiations
with leading Zionist underground fighters in Palestine, some of whom went
on after the war to become members of the cabinet of Israeli leader David
Ben-Gurion.  None of this was admitted by them at the time, but of course
the records are there in the files of the SS in the National Archives in
Washington.

   Eichmann was head of department IV B 4 of the Reich Security Main Office
(RIECHSSICHERHEITSHAUPTAMT or RSHA).  This was the desk of the Gestapo
assigned to deal with Jewish matters.  Eichmann came under Heinrich Muller
(head of the Gestapo), who came under Reinhard Heydrich (the chief of the
RSHA) [and after January 1943, Ernst Kaltenbrunner], who came under
Heinrich Himmler (the Reichsfuhrer SS), who came under Hitler.

   Actually, Himmler was much farther under Hitler than you would imagine
from subsequent historical propaganda.  Relations between Himmler and
Hilter were not close.  They seldom saw each other; Himmler was a bit of a
loose cannon who operated very much at arm's length from Hitler.  He took
his own decisions and acted as he wanted.  Hitler couldn't be bothered with
much that Himmler was up to.  I think there was a certain lack of affinity
between the two, and this became increasingly evident as the war went on.
This is also indicated by Eichmann's own writings.

   To the governments of the foreign countries from where Jews were being
deported, Eichmann denied that the Jews were being killed.  But from his
papers we can surmise that he know or suspected different.

   These Eichmann papers -- the 600 pages which were handed to me in
Argentina -- are all typescript on very, very flimsy paper -- what you
Americans call onion skin paper -- legal size.  I am guessing that many,
many carbon copies had been made.  We know that they originated with the
collaboration of a Flemish journalist named Willem Sassens von Hildewor who
was also in hiding in Argentina.  Sassens was a very dubious character.  I
think he's still alive in Argentina, but he's gone into hiding because he
fears for his life, and probably with some justification because there's
good reason to suspect that he turned over the bulk of these papers --
which he dressed up for the purpose -- to _Life_ magazine, in 1959 or 1960,
and when _Life_ magazine published them they were the direct cause of
Eichmann's capture and kidnapping by the Israelis in the following year.

   So Sassens is a very dubious character.  As we know from von
Woltersdorf, an eyewitness who lives in Germany now and wrote me a very
long letter after the scandal broke (he was present during a lot of these
taping sessions with Eichmann), Sassens persuaded Eichmann to talk at very
great length on tape recordings.  Altogether there were either 67 or 72
tape recordings.  Because they were recorded in the 1950s, the tape
recorder was a primitive reel-to-reel model.  The tapes, once used, would
then be erased and reused, so unfortunately, very few of the original tapes
survive.

   The surviving original tapes are now in the custody of Dieter Eichmann,
a son of Eichmann, who lives near Lake Constance [in southern Germany].  As
a result of the scandal that arose over my discovery of these Eichmann
papers, I tried to protect Dieter Eichmann from embarrassment by the
newspapers: I told journalists I wasn't going to reveal where they could
find him because I didn't feel that it was right for his family to be
molested by newspapermen.  Eventually, though, I did put one journalist in
contact with Dieter Eichmann, a journalist with the Swiss weekly _Die
Weltwoche_. In the space of a few days _Die Weltwoche_, a wealthy Swiss
weekly newspaper, did a deal with Dieter Eichmann where they purchased all
these surviving tape recordings and all the surviving papers, and _Die
Weltwoche_ now has all the rights.  I next received a letter from _Die
Weltwoche_'s lawyers warning me not to make use of any of the material I
had.

   Sassens had taped the conversations with Eichmann in the 1950s.  They
are verbatim transcripts, which makes them very useful, and as such they
differ greatly from the books that were published by Eichmann in 1985 --
_Ich, Adolf Eichmann_ (the German edition), or _Yo, Adolfo Eichmann_ (the
Spanish-language version) -- because those books contain no transcripts of
conversations.  They contain just a mildly edited text of what Sassens
himself put together.

   The transcripts themselves are very interesting because Eichmann got
very irritated with Sassens, and constantly interrupted him: "I can't see
what you're getting at," and "You're very thick," and "why do you keep
asking me about who was giving me the orders?  How was I supposed to know?"
And this kind of thing.  It's the "back-chat" which was interesting in the
dialogues.

   In January 1992 I donated all these original papers to the Federal
Archives [Bundesarchiv] in Koblenz.  In fact, I turned them over even
before I read them myself, because obviously they are a historical source
of very substantial importance to anybody investigating the "Holocaust."
Since 1965, I've made a practice of turning over my private papers and my
research papers to the German Federal Archives, both because they are such
a huge volume of paper, and so that other historians can use them.  For a
time I turned over papers to the Institute of Contemporary History in
Munich, where they have a collection called "The Irving Collection."  But I
changed that three years ago, after a professor with the Institute, Helmuth
Auerbach, decided to write a letter behind my back, on Institute
letterhead, denouncing me to the German public prosecutor!  I decided no
longer to deposit papers in their archives, and until they apologize and
retract that libelous letter, they can say goodbye to receiving any of the
rest of my collection.  Consequently, all my subsequent papers have gone to
the German Federal Archives.

   I didn't have time to open those brown packages until Christmas-time.
Christmas in London is an endlessly boring, tedious, and desolate festival,
so I decided to enliven my festival by reading Adolf Eichmann's papers.

   I started reading on Christmas eve, and I carried on through Christmas
day.  I decided very rapidly that I couldn't continue reading the originals
because they are so flimsy that I might damage them.  So I decided to copy
them, which I had to do page by page because they are so flimsy.  It took
me all Christmas day, but I ended up with a much better set than the
originals I eventually donated to the archives.

   Thus I began reading them in earnest about January 2nd or 3rd.  Each
evening, at the end of the rest of my day's work, I would read 30 or 40
pages of these transcripts.


"David Irving Recants"

   Entirely by chance on Friday, January 10, a journalist with _The
Observer_ (one of the other serious British Sunday papers, and a great
rival of the _Sunday Times_) telephoned me to ask me for a quotation about
an event coming up the following week in London.  On January 20 there was
going to be a big Jewish Holocaust seminar at the Wiener Library in London.
The Wiener Library had issued a press release dealing with certain casualty
figures, and a statement had been issued by Yehuda Bauer of Israel's Yad
Vashem institute, who was going to take part in the meeting.  Had I any
comments?  It was just a routine journalist's call.  I make this point
because I'm not a publicity seeker, and I don't go out of my way to seek
publicity.  Publicity's a nuisance, and believe me, I long ago ceased to
believe that journalists are going to do me any favors at all.  They're
not.

   When this journalist telephoned me, I said, "I can't tell you my own
impression about these figures, but what I will tell you is that Adolf
Eichmann himself said that [Auschwitz commandant] Rudolf Hoss' figures were
grossly inflated, and that Eichmann thought that Hoss was an outrageous
liar."

   "How do you know this?" he responded.

   "Well," I said, "nobody else knows this, but as of two months ago I've
gotten ahold of all of Adolf Eichmann's private papers.  They were donated
to me by a mutual friend in Argentina who didn't know what to do with them,
and he thought they were safest in my hands.  I've donated the originals to
the German archives, and I'm busy researching through them now."  By that
time I'd read three quarters of them, I think.

   Well, the journalist flipped.  "You mean to say that you've had Adolf
Eichmann's diaries?" he asked.

   "No," I replied, "not his diaries, just his memoirs and everything he
dictated and his conversations, it's all pure gold."

   Then he asked, "Have you reached any new conclusions?"

   I responded: "There's one sentence that has given me cause for thought."
(I'll speak about this later on.)  And the journalist then wrote an article
that appeared the following day in _The Observer_, and which was picked up
that same day by the _Sunday Telegraph_ under the headline, "Historian
Recants."  [See the _IHR Newsletter_, Feb. 1992, pp. 3-4.]

   Okay, that's the kind of harmless thing newspapers do, and the following
morning they're wrapping fish and chips.  But in this case, the following
morning it was wrapping fish and chips all the way around the world.  As
the globe spun, as the sun rose in the east and sank in the west, so my fax
machine churned out press clippings from all my agents and sources and
friends, in New Zealand, in Australia, in South Africa, in Europe, then on
the east coast of the United States, then across Canada, then finally to
the west coast, then down in Hawaii, in China, in Hong Kong -- right around
the world.  That one _Observer_ article had instantaneously been spread:
"David Irving Recants."

   It was interesting to see that my original statement, whatever I was
supposed to have recanted, had not gone around the world with the speed of
light, had not been splashed [on newspaper front pages], and yet my
"recanting" was sufficiently newsworthy to have gone around the world, and
been given this tremendous publicity splash.

   Too late, the Jewish community realized that they had scored an immense
"own goal" (what Americans call a "fumble"), because the phone then began
ringing with calls from television and radio stations around the world,
wanting live interviews and telephone interviews.  Would I go to the
studios to do a satellite interview with Sydney?  And of course, every time
I did I said, "Well, Eichmann says he witnessed mass shootings in Russia,
but Eichmann's papers are quite plain: there's no mention at all of gas
chambers."  So I was able to get the message across.

   At this, our traditional enemies went berserk.  In a very impressive
example of damage control, they then called out the fire brigades to spread
the following message: "What David Irving has published is not new.  David
Irving has found nothing that the accepted, academic, reliable, decent,
serious professional historians haven't always known all along.  The
Eichmann papers are not new.  We have always known about these papers.
There is nothing in David Irving's find that merits serious consideration."

   To which I said, "How do you know?  The papers that I have donated to
the federal archives in Germany are subject to an embargo by me which
prevents anybody else from seeing them, and nobody HAS seen them, except me
and the archive [officials] in Germany.  So how do you know that what I
have is what you lot have known all along?"  An interesting point!

   "Oh, well, it's quite obvious, isn't it?" they said, and then went into
a kind of damage control on the damage control.  But it was too late,
because the point was very obvious: I had the papers, and they hadn't.

   The Institute of Contemporary History of Munich also announced that what
I had was nothing new, that it was well known, and that didn't David Irving
realize that Adolf Eichmann's book had been published in 1985?

   I said that not only did I know that Eichmann's book was published in
1985, I was the person who engineered it.  After no other publisher in the
world would touch Eichmann's book, I personally organized contacts between
Eichmann's son, who had those manuscripts, and Druffel Verlag [a publisher
in Germany], so that at least the manuscripts got some kind of airing.

   So of course I knew about the book, but what I had was totally
different: I had the transcripts of the conversations, which had never been
published.

   The line of defense of the Jewish community was that what I had was not
all that serious; and, please, no further publicity.  This made me begin to
wonder.  What was it they didn't want published?  Why was it, I asked
myself, that when the Eichmann memoirs came out in 1985, first of all,
nobody was willing to publish them except Druffel Verlag in Germany, and
Planeta in Argentina, but no mainstream publisher in Europe or the United
States?  Here, after all, are the memoirs of "the biggest mass-murderer of
all time," apparently, and yet for some reason they're being swept under
the carpet.

   And why was it that our traditional enemies had gone into this frantic
damage control exercise when, of all people, David Irving had got control
of the original transcripts and had put them in the archives?

   Martin Gilbert, my deadly rival and enemy, the Churchill biographer in
Britain, said, "For many years Mr. Irving has denied these facts about the
Holocaust and now he makes a virtue of finding them."

   But I didn't say the first, and I didn't say the second.  What I do say
now is: can we analyze these papers, these transcripts, which are
disorganized and not indexed, and in rather an untidy mess -- can we
analyze them in some way, and ask ourselves why it is that they were swept
under the carpet in 1985, and why people were so anxious that the press
should pay no attention to the papers that had been given to me in
Argentina in 1991?



Article 9599 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: Suppressed Eichmann and Goebbels Papers By David Irving - Part 2/2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:30:42 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 602
Message-ID: <44d87n$pka@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9599 soc.culture.jewish:7577

Eichmann on the Holocaust

   Well, here are some of the contents.  First of all, Adolf Eichmann is
quite plain throughout these papers that the word ENDLOSUNG, or "final
solution," meant only one thing to him, and that was Madagascar.  When he
addressed his mind to the "final solution of the Jewish problem" in the
late 1930s and early 1940s, it was quite plain to him that it was only a
plan to sweep all the Jews of Europe aboard boats and transport them lock,
stock and barrel down to Madagascar, where they would be on an island where
they couldn't bother any of their neighbors and where none of their
neighbors could bother them.  I've always said and I say it here again --
even though I risk making a few enemies -- that I think that would have
been an ideal solution to a perennial world tragedy.

   The second interesting thing that emerges from Eichmann's own papers is
that he's chewing over in his mind -- he's frightfully repetitive -- he
keeps on coming back, again and again, in his manuscripts and in these
conversations to who was behind it, and what was behind it.  What was
behind the "Holocaust" (if we can use that word loosely here now)?  He
keeps coming back to the appalling thought: Did THEY manage to use US?  Did
the Zionists use the Nazis to further their own ends?  Was the Holocaust
something that they themselves inflicted on their own body, in order to
bring about their Zionist cause in the long run?

   This was Eichmann's theory, at the end of his life (effectively, because
a year or two later he was kidnapped and a year after that he was at the
end of a rope in Israel).  "Did THEY manage to use US?"  He keeps on coming
back to it, and every time he comes back to it, it becomes more and more
plausible to him.  And perhaps this is the reason why the Eichmann papers
were not supposed to see the light of day.

   Thirdly, when he's justifying the cruelty of what he himself has seen --
and in a minute I'll go into some of the detail about what he saw -- he
says, "But compared to what they were doing to us at that time, this was
nothing.  Compared to what they were planning to do with us, this was
nothing."  He said, "I remember in Berlin an air raid... [and] afterwards
going through the streets past a house that had collapsed, and hearing the
screams of an elderly couple who had been trapped by falling debris, and
the woman pleading to be put out of her misery by anybody with a gun."  He
said, "When you hear screams like that, you never forget them for the rest
of your life."  He describes that two or three times in his memoirs.

[Photograph captioned, "SS officer Adolf Eichmann".]

   Now, that's not justification.  One crime doesn't justify another crime,
that's plain.  But this is in the memoirs.  He also says, "Besides, we had
by this time already learned of the Jews' plans for Germany."  He mentions
explicitly the book by Theodore Kaufman, _Germany Must Perish_.  This is
most interesting, because in the Goebbels diaries of August 1941 (which
have also not yet been published), Goebbels also mentions Kaufman's book as
justification.

   This book, published in the United States by a deranged American Jew,
presents a crazy plan for liquidating millions of Germans after the war.
It was published in August 1941, and is referred to by Goebbels a few weeks
before he introduced the plan for Jews to wear a yellow star.  You can see
a logical sequence of events, and Eichmann refers to this book as being one
reason why, in his own mind, he can justify to himself the crimes that he
was seeing committed.

   He even mentions as mitigation the Morgenthau plan; but of course here
you've got to be careful, because the Morgenthau plan wasn't initialed by
Churchill and Roosevelt until mid-September 1944, only a few weeks before
Himmler ordered Auschwitz closed down.  So, that's an anachronism.
Eichmann's mind is rather confused and muddled by the time he's writing or
dictating all this in the mid-1950s.  (We know it's the mid-1950s, because
he mentions things like, "Why was it a crime for us to invade Poland, when
it isn't a crime for them to do what they're doing now in Suez?"  So it
must have been around 1956 that he's dictating these passages.)

   Round about 1958, he gets hold of the "memoirs" of the "memoirs" of
Rudolf Hoss, which were published by the Institute of Contemporary History
in Munich in that year.  Hoss wrote these "memoirs" while he was in Krakow,
in Polish captivity.  They've always been a problem -- let's be frank about
this -- they've been a problem to Revisionists.

   Eichmann's comments on the Hoss memoirs are annihilating.  Reading where
Rudolf Hoss is saying that two and a half million Jews have been liquidated
at Auschwitz, the camp where he was commandant, Eichmann comments, "Where
does Hoss believe that he got these two and a half million Jews?  Not from
me.  Because to have liquidated two and a half million decrepit, elderly,
unworkable Jews, I must have had to feed to him three, four, five, six or
seven million Jews in that space of time, and from the transport point of
view alone this would have been totally impossible."

   You see, the memoirs of Eichmann are very useful in this respect.  He
was the transport specialist whose job it was to round up the Jews in
Hungary and Slovakia and ship them off to Germany for forced labor and for
dissipation to the other labor camps.  He knew that shipping off millions
of Jews wasn't something you do at the snap of your fingers: you had to
have conferences with the railway officials and with the road officials,
and with the guards and with everybody else who was going to be involved in
all this.  You had to provide the food for the transports which were going
to be on the rails for four or five or six days.  All this had to be
prepared and planned with typical German bureaucracy and method, and that
took meetings and conferences.  And Eichmann said, "If you're going to ship
five or six million Jews across Europe to Auschwitz at that time, let me
tell you how many trains that would have taken," and he worked out how many
trains it would have taken, because he knew.

   "You're not only going to have trains going that way full of Jews, but
you're going to have empty trains coming back.  And you're going to have to
have a circulation time, a time where they're unloading at one end, a time
where they're loading at the other end... You're going to need so many
thousands of wagons" of rolling stock.  He worked out exactly how much
rolling stock would have been needed, in these memoirs, and he said, "This
alone proves that Rudolf Hoss was talking through his hat.  These figures
are totally fantastic, and what the hell is Hoss up to?"  That is a brief,
lurid summary of what Eichmann writes as he's sitting in what he believes
to be safety in the underground in Argentina, reading these memoirs of
Hoss, published in 1958.

   Two years later, of course, Eichmann is kinapped, so it's during those
two years that Eichmann is writing this.  He mentions also in these memoirs
how he received an indirect approach from Nahum Goldmann.  Nahum Goldmann
was one of the great Zionist leaders of the postwar era.  Born in Lithuania
and living for many years in Germany, he was the person who negotiated with
Konrad Adenauer the billions of German marks which subsequently went to
Israel.  Eichmann mentions in these memoirs what purported to be an
indirect approach from Goldmann, pleading with him to back up the six
million figure.  Anything he could do to support the six million figure,
because the Zionists needed it.  You are beginning to suspect, now, why
these Eichmann memoirs should not be published.

   Eichmann inspected Auschwitz.  He went to Auschwitz several times, as he
recounts in his memoirs.  He describes being met by Rudolf Hoss, the
commandant, and he describes several grisly scenes.  He describes going
past an open pit where bodies were being burned, and he says it was an
infernal sight, the likes of which he would never forget.  He describes how
the commandant, Hoss, tells him that they are doing these things on
Himmler's orders and that it is a sacred task that has been imposed on the
SS.

   Eichmann describes many things, but what he does not once mention during
this vivid description of his visit to Auschwitz is "gas chambers."  He
doesn't mention gas chambers, he just mentions the disposal of bodies in
open pits by fire, and the comments to him by Commandant Hoss.

   I find that a very significant omission because, let's face it, in these
papers Eichmann is not exactly being modest about what he's seen.  He
describes how in July 1941 (if you piece together the months and the dates)
he is summoned to Berlin to visit Reinhard Heydrich, the chief of the Reich
Security Main Office (RSHA).  Heydrich utters to him the fateful words,
"Ich komme vom Reichsfuhrer SS.  Der Fuhrer hat den Befehl zur physischen
Vernichtung der Juden gegeben."  ("I've come from the Reichsfuhrer SS
[Himmler].  The Fuhrer has given the order for the physical destruction of
the Jews.")


Did Hitler Know?

   That, of course -- given in quotation marks in the manuscript -- is what
gave me pause for thought.  I've always said, "Hitler wasn't involved,
whatever happened -- Hitler gave no orders, there's no proof of it."  Here
we have Eichmann writing something very specific indeed.  What is the
explanation?

   Well, if you look just at that sentence, we can say that you've only got
to change one or two words and you get a completely different meaning.  If
it wasn't "The Fuhrer has ordered the PHYSISCHE VERNICHTUNG [physical
destruction] of the Jews," but rather "die Ausrottung des Judentums,"
you've only changed the words by a fraction and yet you've got a totally
different meaning.  You get something which is much more similar to Adolf
Hitler's public utterances and speeches.  AUSROTTUNG DES JUDENTUMS, the
destruction of Judaism, is something totally different.  You don't do that
by gas chambers and the machine gun, any more than destroying Christianity
or destroying usury can be done by the gas chamber and the bullet.  They're
different concepts.

   So why should Eichmann have written this and not that?  By 1958, he is
well aware that since Hoss' memoirs have been published and Eichmann is
mentioned on 20 or 30 pages, the hue and cry are on.  They're out looking
for him.  He knows his days may be numbered.  Although I'm not sure that --
given his German, scrupulous, bureaucratic mind -- he's not doing this
consciously, the mind has wonderful synthetic and analytic functions; the
mind has a habit of suppressing, distorting, and embellishing in a manner
which the owner of that mind would wish.  And I'm sure that Adolf
Eichmann's mind is already lying awake at night, feverishly looking for
extenuating circumstances.  What more extenuating circumstances would there
be for an Adolf Eichmann than that the Fuhrer had "ordered the physical
destruction of the Jews"?  Eichmann may well have adapted the sentence that
Reinhard Heydrich actually uttered to him.

   It's immaterial, one way or the other, because we must never overlook
one basic fact: this is a POSTWAR document, and any historian can now
confirm that nowhere in all the archives of the world has yet been found
one WARTIME document referring to a Fuhrer's order to destroy the Jews, or
for that matter, one wartime document referring to gas chambers or
gassings.  All the documents that refer to Fuhrer orders and gas chambers
are POSTWAR documents; statements by people in the dock at Nuremberg,
memoirs written by the commandant at Krakow in Poland, and the like.  You
can't overlook this basic watershed between wartime and postwar documents.
If there's no wartime document that says there was a Fuhrer order, if no
wartime document talks of gas chambers, then there has to be some
explanation for that.  That's why I say I think I'm entitled to believe
that Adolf Eichmann's mind is synthesizing here.  He is looking
unconsciously for extenuating circumstances which will perhaps get him off
the hook, literally, when the time comes.


Eichmann and Hoffmann

   He doesn't try to avoid describing what he's seen.  He describes the
pits in Auschwitz, he describes the crematoria, just the same as Albert
Hoffmann.  Four or five years ago, while going through the records of the
National Archives in Suitland, Maryland, I came across the interrogation
report of Albert Hoffmann, who was the deputy Gauleiter of Silesia, the Gau
where Auschwitz was situated.  I thought he was an unimportant man, because
I didn't realize he was in Silesia, but the British, interrogating
Hoffmann, asked him if he'd ever visited a concentration camp.  Hoffmann's
reply was, "Yes, I've visited two concentration camps in my life, one at
Dachau in 1936, which was organized, clean, decent and disciplined, and the
prisoners were well fed.  Then again," he said, "in 1941 (or 1942: I think,
in fact, in both years), I visited Auschwitz concentration camp with my
Gauleiter, Bracht, and with the Reichsfuhrer SS, Heinrich Himmler."

   Hoffmann went on, "Auschwitz was totally different from Dachau.  The
scenes I saw there beggar description.  Brutality on the worst possible
scale.  I saw prisoners being beaten, I saw cadavers being cremated in the
crematorium..."

   You think, "Well, this is it."  You read on, thinking now you've got it,
but then Hoffmann adds, "...but what Allied propaganda is now claiming,
that is totally untrue."

   So again, rather like Eichmann, you've got somebody who is prepared to
describe to a degree what he has actually seen, which, God knows, isn't
exactly decent, but he will not go the final yard and say "gas chambers."
Neither Adolf Eichmann nor Albert Hoffmann -- eyewitnesses -- describes
having seen the gas chambers.  So why does Hoss describe the gas chambers?
I'll come back to Hoss and his papers in a minute.


Eichmann Remembers

   What else is there in the Eichmann papers?  Well, he describes how,
after Heydrich called him to Berlin and uttered this fateful sentence about
the Fuhrer having given the order, Heydrich said that Himmler has ordered
Odilo Globocnik to carry out this task, and that Himmler had actually
ordered that the Russian anti-tank ditches were to be used for disposing of
the bodies.  Heydrich orders Eichmann to go out and check what Globocnik is
doing.

   Rationalizing, Eichmann says, "From this I assume that the conversation
with Heydrich must have been sometime in the late summer of 1941 because
that would have to be after the double battle of Minsk and Bialystok,"
because that's where the anti-tank ditches were.  Eichmann then says, "I
went out to Minsk, and I saw myself the mass shootings going on."

   Now you probably know that I'm a Revisionist to a degree, but I'm not a
Revisionist to the extent that I say that there were no murders of Jews.  I
think we have to accept that there were My Lai-type massacres where SS
officers -- the Einsatzkommandos -- did machine-gun hundreds if not
thousands of Jews into pits.  On the Eastern Front, at Riga, at Minsk, and
at other locations, this kind of thing DID happen.

   Eichmann himself -- and I wasn't surprised to find it in his papers --
actually witnessed this.  He went to see one at Minsk, and being a proper
SS officer went right to the front to make sure that everything was being
carried out.  He got so close, in fact, that he saw with his very own eyes
how the victims were being made to go into the pits and stand there waiting
to be shot.  (We've all heard these descriptions of it, and I've seen some
terrible descriptions from sources that *I* find credible.)  He says he saw
that one woman was holding a little child in her arms, petrified, and she
held the child out to him, and he writes in his memoirs: "I was a parent
too, and I instinctively stepped forward as though to take the child.  But
at that very moment the salvo of shots rang out.  Both were killed only a
few feet away from me.  The child's brains were spattered over my leather
greatcoat, and my driver had to clean the mess off."

   I don't know why he recounted that kind of detail in his memoirs.  It's
an ugly piece of circumstantial evidence.  But it lends credibility and
authenticity to the descriptions, what a writer calls verisimilitude.  It
didn't surprise me.  He also describes -- and I have to say this being an
honest historian -- going to another location a few weeks later and being
driven around in a bus; then being told by the bus driver to look through a
peep hole into the back of the bus where he saw a number of prisoners being
gassed by the exhaust fumes.  So I accept that this kind of experiment was
made on a very limited scale, but that it was rapidly abandoned as being a
totally inefficient way of killing people.  But, I don't accept that the
gas chambers existed, and this is well known.  I've seen no evidence at all
that gas chambers existed.

   In these papers we see Eichmann loyally standing up for his superiors,
Himmler and Heydrich.  He's constantly wondering where the order came from,
if there was an order.  On one occasion he goes so far, and in a rather
paranoid way, to say if there was such an order then it could only have
come from outside Germany, and why.  Which is bringing us back on that
other track of "were we duped by the Zionists in some way?"

   Eichmann constantly ravages the memoirs of Rudolf Hoss, as I mentioned.
This is again another reason "not to publish" the Eichmann memoirs, and not
to grant them any credence, because for our opponents the Hoss memoirs  are
a keystone of the Holocaust legend.  Eichmann describes the refusal of the
government of Slovakia, and other countries where he operated, to intercede
on behalf of their Jewish people.  They were glad to get clean of them.
And that again is something these people wouldn't have wanted to be
published.

   He also describes an odd case in Theresienstadt.  He describes how one
of the girls on a train-load of Jews who were being shipped off to
Auschwitz protested loudly and vociferously that she wasn't Jewish.  Giving
her the benefit of the doubt, she was unloaded at one station and taken to
Theresienstadt (which was a PROMINENTENLAGER for the Jews in
Czechoslovakia).  But here the Jewish leader of the camp protested noisily
about having a non-Jew foisted upon them.  This again is a rather ugly
depiction of the way that man behaves unto man.


Jews for Trucks

   But most lethal of all, and I suppose taking up more than 50 percent of
the volume of the Eichmann papers, is the description by Eichmann of his
negotiations with the Zionists in 1944.  After the German invasion of
Hungary, Eichmann was sent there to round up the Jews and ship them off.
Two Zionist leaders came forward, Joel Brand and Reszo Kasztner [Kastner],
and offered to deal with him -- to trade with him -- to rescue the Jews of
Hungary and Slovakia, whereby the Germans could keep the Jewish "mob" (and
in fact, they offered, the Jewish community in Hungary would be glad to
help round them up) if in return Eichmann would guarantee to spare 20,000
of the fittest, the best, the Jewish elite, the toughest ones who were
needed in the new Zionist state of Israel.

   Eichmann describes these conferences in great detail.  He has almost
total recall.  His descriptions reveal all the cunning and cynicism of the
Zionist leaders at that time, at that stage of the war [1944] in a manner
which, I think, the Jewish community today would find deeply distressing.
This, I think, is why the Eichmann memoirs had to be suppressed, because of
the detail.  Kasztner was subsequently assassinated in Israel, years later.

   There is no doubt about what happened because, working in the archives,
I've come across records relating to the British end of these negotiations,
which eventually became the famous "Jews-for-trucks" deal.  In this, Brand
was sent out to negotiate with the British in Turkey, in Palestine, and
Egypt; and the deal being that in return for thousands of Jews the world
community was to provide the Germans with trucks and motor equipment for
fighting on the Russian front.  (Not on the western front, of course: the
deal had to be the trucks would only be used on the Russian front.)  In
return, the SS agreed to release a number of Jews.  Eichmann was the person
handling this deal in Hungary for Germany, and Brand and Kasztner were
handling the deal for the Zionists.

   It's a fascinating story; perhaps one day I'll write a book about it.
In the British archives I've now located all the records relating to the
British end of these deals, as well as all the letters between Brand and
Kasztner and the Jewish agency and the Zionist leaders in Palestine, which
were intercepted by British postal censorship.  It's a fascinating, but
deeply ugly, story.  It certainly wouldn't win any friends if I do it.

[Photograph captioned, "David Irving makes a point at an IHR conference."]

   In the introduction to his papers, Eichmann writes that he is not a
murderer: He does regard himself, rather ruefully, as being an accomplice
to murder, because he helped round up the Jews who were then shipped off to
a fate that he could only surmise.  You would have to accept, of course,
that what he is writing in his memoirs by the mid-1950s is no longer just
the pure product of his recollection but also, to a certain extent, a
symbiosis of his memories with what he has read in Rudolf Hoss' memoirs,
and in _The Final Solution_ by Gerald Reitlinger, which he has also read.


Eichmann on Hoss

   Eichmann's memoirs are an important element of the refutation of the
Holocaust story.  I have saved this for the end: Because I'm notorious, and
because my name is on stickers around London, ("Irving speaks and Rostock
burns"), purely by chance another man came and visited me in London only a
few weeks ago, and he unwrapped an envelope, and inside the envelope was a
book.  I recognized it because it's a well-known book that we all have
consulted.  It was a copy of the original German edition of the memoirs of
Rudolf Hoss, _Kommandant in Auschwitz_, published in 1958 by the Institute
of Contemporary History in Munich.

   He said, "I bought this book in a German flea market only a few months
ago and I want to ask you how much is it worth."

   I said, "How much did you pay for it?"

   He said, "No, no, no, look.  It's got handwriting all over it."

   Here are some pages of it, and you can see the handwriting -- it's got
hand-written marginal notes all over it.  Says one note here, "That is a
lying distortion of the facts."  THE HANDWRITING IS EICHMANN'S.  The book
is Adolf Eichmann's OWN copy of the Rudolf Hoss memoirs!  I don't know how
much money this man wanted for it.  I'm not a rich man, but I've got his
address; one day, perhaps, I'll make him an offer for it.

   Everywhere in that book Eichmann has written his own comments.  Rudolf
Hoss writes, "I had a private meeting alone with Adolf Eichmann, and we
discussed the Eichmann program."  Eichmann crosses this out: "A shameless
lie.  I was never alone with Hoss."  So those of us who always doubted the
integrity of the Hoss memoirs -- we wondered why Hoss should have written
these things -- here in Eichmann's own handwriting we've got yet one more
piece of proof that the Hoss memoirs are untrustworthy as a source.


The Truth Gets Out

   I wrote a letter last week to [the weekly] _Die Zeit_ in Germany, which
has devoted two pages to, first of all, the Auschwitz controversy
[September 18] and, a week later [September 25], the Leuchter Report.  I
wrote in that letter, "A swine [EIN HUNDSFOTT] is the historian who relies
only on the Hoss memoirs now!"  We knew we couldn't rely on them.  Bit by
bit, you see, the truth does come out.

   You can ban historians.  You can have them arrested, you can fine them
$10,000, you can make life hell for them.  But one thing is quite plain:
you can't declare the truth to be a prohibited person.  The truth gets out.

   Thank you very much.


Questions

   Q:  What do we know about the people who are responsible for the
massacres of Jews by firing squad in Minsk and other areas?  How high did
the responsibility go?

   A:  First of all, let me say a little about the source which convinced
me on that, and I know that Professor Faurisson disagrees with me on this:
A number of German prisoners were held in British captivity in rooms that
were bugged; there were hidden microphones in each room.  And there are
transcripts of those conversations.  In one particular case, General Walter
Bruns described to his pals in most appalling detail a massacre he himself
saw near Riga on November 30, 1941.  I'm not going to read that one out
here.  I'm going to read one out to show you how UNRELIABLE these people
sometimes are.  Here's a prisoner of war in a conversation on December 20,
1944, a man called Obergefreiter Till, who was captured in August 1944.  He
claimed to have been guarding the railway at Auschwitz in July 1943 when a
trainload of Greek Jews arrived.

   Till said, "The SS man kicked a Jewish woman who was highly pregnant.
He kicked her right in the stomach and knocked her down.  And the unborn
baby came almost out.  He took hold of it and pulled it out, threw it down
on the ground, and told the woman to get up.  He put that child on the
truck that was standing there to take away the dead people to be burned."

   The British officer asked, "The child was dead, of course?"

   Till said, "Yes, and the woman could not get up.  She was hardly
dressed, and he grabbed her by her breast -- he wanted to pull her up --
and he just ripped her skin and everything out of her breasts.  There was a
captain there from the army, I think his name was Captain Klug.  He went
after that SS guy, he took him by the shoulder, turned him around, and
said, 'Are you crazy to do something like that?  Aren't you ashamed of
yourself?'" -- and so on.

   This is the kind of rubbish that these diseased minds invented
sometimes.  So you've got to be very careful when you use these
eyewitnesses.  Obviously that's a totally phony account: The man invented
the whole story.  But disordered, diseased minds invent stories like that,
particularly when they are being interrogated.

   But other reports, unfortunately, have the ring of authenticity.  Most
of these SS officers -- the gangsters that carried out the mass shootings
-- were, I think, acting from the meanest of motives.  There was a
particular SS officer in Riga who was described in the report by Bruns, in
which Bruns said, "The difficulty for us was how to decide to draw what we
had seen to the Fuhrer's attention."  And eventually they sent a lieutenant
down the road, and got HIM to write what he saw, and they sent this report
(signed by the lieutenant) up to the Fuhrer's headquarters through Canaris.
And two days later the order comes back from Hitler, "These mass shootings
have got to stop at once."  So Hitler intervened to stop it.  Which again
fits in with my theory that Hitler was in the dark that this kind of mass
crime was going on.  I suspect that the SS officer concerned [Altemeyer]
was only 23 or 24.  That was the age of the gangs that were carrying out
these kinds of crimes.  Rather like [US Army] Lt. Calley in My Lai.  I
don't know why those people do that kind of thing.

   Q:  Some years ago in Germany I read an article about Adolf Eichmann,
that he was born Adolf Eich, a Jew.

   A:  Well, I think that this is a pretty far-fetched story, but he
certainly had sympathies for the Jews.  He was a great admirer of the Jews
and in his own memoirs he describes himself as being more of a Zionist than
an SS officer, for what it is worth.

   Q:  [Professor Robert Faurisson]  About Eichmann, may I ask you if you
read the transcripts of Avner Less, the instructing magistrate [in fact,
3,564 pages]?

   A:  No, I haven't.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  And did you read the transcript of the Jerusalem trial
[of Adolf Eichmann]?

   A:  No, I didn't.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  Maybe we have answers to your questions.  You said that
the Jews didn't want the memoirs to be too well known.  Perhaps it is
because all you have told us supports what Eichmann said in those
transcripts.  The memoirs are in fact a confirmation of what Eichmann
thought was true.

   I have something to add about the personality of Eichmann: he was
extremely naive.  For example, when Eichmann is asked a question about the
gas chambers he doesn't say "gas chambers," he says, "Oh yeah, Hoss told me
about the murder installations," things like that.  And then he says, "Now,
wait a minute.  I don't remember the circumstances.  Maybe I read that, or
maybe somebody told me that... this is possible."  He was very
impressionable, the poor man, even before being taken to Jerusalem.  He was
impressed by Poliakov and all those stupid people.

   A:  You're right; the character of Eichmann is very important.  He was
pliable, he was easily impressed, he was complacent, and anxious to please.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  Absolutely.  I agree totally with this.  It's very
important to understand Eichmann.  Now, for Hoss we have so many proofs
that Hoss didn't say those things, didn't write those things.  When he
said, for example, three million people died in Auschwitz -- two million
and a half in gas chambers, and 500,000 for other reasons -- we know from
Moritz von Schirmeister that in the car taking Hoss from Minden to
Nuremberg, Hoss said, "Certainly I signed a statement that I killed two and
a half million Jews.  But I could just as well have said that it was five
million Jews.  There are certain methods by which any confession can be
obtained, whether it is true or not."  [See _The Journal of Historical
Review_, Winter 1986-87, p. 399.]  To set the record straight, I don't know
any Revisionist who says that there were no massacres, because there is no
war without massacres, especially on the Russian front where you had Jews,
and partisans, women, and children all mixed together.

   A:  It's important to say this because we are called Holocaust deniers,
and the television screens show you the mass graves and all the rest of it,
which we don't deny.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  We CERTAINLY DON'T deny it.  Right at the beginning of
the Toronto trial [of Ernst Zundel] we said, "This is what we assume, and
this is what we contest."  And we assume that there were massacres and
hostages and reprisals and so on.

   Now, on to another subject.  Do you remember the conversation we had at
your home, when I said I realize that General Bruns said that there were
massacres and things like that, but at first he doesn't say that he has
seen them himself?

   Second, you see that two or three pages later in the transcript there is
a very interesting document from the British interrogators saying who Bruns
was.  First he had been punished, in December 1944 or January 1945, by the
Germans themselves.  Then he said that he was very willing to COLLABORATE
with the British.  Finally, didn't you say to me that, yes, in fact Bruns
at a trial had said that he had not seen these massacres?

   A:  Yes, but I still stand by the validity of these eavesdropping
reports.  They are, I think, primary sources of the most fundamental
quality.  Two years after this conversation, which was in April 1945, Bruns
went into the dock in Nuremberg and swore on a stack of Bibles that he had
seen nothing, he had only heard reports and rumors.  But if you read the
conversation in which he describes what he has seen, there is one
particular passage where he says "I can never forget the appallingly
disgusting remarks the men with the guns were making as they were shooting
the people -- calling out things: 'Look at that Jewish beauty.'  I can see
her now in my mind's eye, a beautiful girl about 20 with a flame-red
dress."  When you read things like that you know the man's not making it
up.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  Now, Mr. Irving, I have so trained myself in reading
testimonies that I can tell you that, in my personal estimation, this story
of the dress and so on is quite typical of inventions.  Maybe I'm wrong,
but don't you think that if you tell us that Bruns said in April 1945, "I
attended [witnessed] this," (and he doesn't even say "I attended this"),
that you should add that two years later he said that he had not attended?
I think we should note both sides of the story.

   A:  Oh, yes, I think it's important.  But this is just proof of how
people lie when they get in the witness box.

   Q:  [Faurisson]  It could be that, but we don't know: We need both.  Now
about the text.  It's not a conversation taken on the microphone.  As Ernst
Zundel said so well, do you know what the microphones were like in 1945, in
Germany?  They were huge and you had to shout into them.  Do you think that
the British had microphones in the bushes everywhere?

   A:  Yes, that's why we won the war.  We had the better equipment.


[end of article]


[Reprinted by permission from _The Journal of Historical Review_, P.O. Box
1306, Torrance, CA 90505, USA.  Subscription rate: $40 per year, domestic.
$50 per year, foreign.]



Article 9600 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: David Irving on Enemy of True history Part 1 of 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:10:22 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 715
Message-ID: <44d71n$pka@inforamp.net>
References:  <444c2k$g74@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <444r63$h3s@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9600 soc.culture.jewish:7579


From:  ftp.netcom.com  
pub/SF/SFA/history-----------------------------------------

David Irving on   The Enemies of True History



-----------------------------What you are about to read are facts the 
Holocaust lobby is desperately trying to hide from you.  If it didn't mean a 
lot to them they wouldn't be beating up on the audiences of David Irving and 
terrorizing property owners where he is to speak. Their aim is terror. Their 
masters are desperate to hide the truth.  The fate of Israel hangs on their 
exaggerations and deliberate falsifications of the history  of WW II.  Why 
this is, is revealed by David Irving. The net terrorists  will do their worst 
to try to destroy his credibility.  But the facts  are there.  See for 
yourself.
   Any spelling/grammar errors are those of the transcriber and not David  
Irving.  Please forgive the typos, thank you.------------------------------
         Attempts to shut down Revisionist viewpoints has been world wide. 
They refuse to debate. They have issued an edict from Los Angeles or  where 
ever the headquarters is saying, "On no account debate the  Revisionists". On 
about 1970 or 1972 .. If you read the newspapers  and books before 1970, you 
wont find the word "holocaust".  You wont  find the word being used then. But 
of course, since then, they've taken  it over. Haven't they?  They've taken 
over that word. Give it just  that one meaning, Give it a capitol H at the 
front. You half expect to  see a "tm" at the end of it because it has become a 
kind of trademark.         It many sound tasteless but think about it. The way 
that concept is  being packaged, and marketed to us. It is being packaged with 
all the  expertise and finesse of Tylenol. Capital "T", capitol "H", a little 
 tm at the end. Don't open the package you. You're not allowed to  examine the 
contents. If you do you are a holocaust denier.   You may think this an 
extraordinary thing. But they will not let us  use any word but the word 
"denial".  Because it makes us look like  total twits. Because as the 
television media says, "Mr. Irving is  accused of being a holocaust denier". 
Simultaneous they show the news  reel film of the bulldozers, tipping the 
emaciated corpses into the  pits. And the average tv viewer says "how can you 
deny it, we can  see it with our own eyes."         Eye witnesses, there is 
another phrase they use. Holocaust, holocaust  denier, eye witnesses. Eye 
witness evidence. The very phrase "eye  witness" implies there was something 
for those eyes to witness.   Therefore for anyone to challenges those 
eyewitnesses is also some  kind of incorrigible twit. Eye witness news, 
channel 7. It exists.   Tankers burning on the Long Island expressway. Eye 
witness news. These  things really happen.         But eye witness reports, 
the only evidence that can be used against  us... the dissident historians. I 
think they should be called "verbal  testimony" or "oral statements" that is 
all they are, There is a  subtle difference between "verbal statement" on one 
hand, and "eye  witness report" on the other. That's how they do it.          
The other word I am going to examine before the end of my talk, is  the fourth 
word they've taken over and injected into the main stream  english language.  
And that is the word still written with a little  "g" genocide. It is an 
important word because their whole cause  revolves around that little word, 
"genocide". The real crimes, not  only of WW2, but of all wars this century, 
and the times between the  wars isn't genocide at all. For killing someone 
because of their race  or religion. That isn't the crime that really concerns 
us. The real  crime is what I call "innocencecide.". The killing of innocent 
people.  This is the important factor. It is so simple when you consider it.  
       What made the crimes of Auschwitz, or Dachau, or Bergen Belsen, or  
Buchenwald, or Hiroshima, or Dresden or Coventry a crime, was the  innocence 
of the victims.  What made the crime of Auschwitz, or what  ever happened 
there at Babr Yar, was not their Jewishness, but their  innocence. So why the 
word genocide?  Well the word genocide has been  invented to limit it to 
crimes against people because of their race. That  way they exclude all the 
other people around the world who also suffered. By  implication they are not 
entitled to any kind of compensation.  This is what it all boils down to. This 
is why basically the whole  campaign has be unleashed against me, and a hand 
full of others, over  the last 5 or 6 years,         I deeply regret making 
the mistake I made in 1988 when I first took  this unexpected high road. In 
April 1988 when I gave evidence in a  certain case in Toronto. It was a 
serious mistake, I never should  have done it. Had I foreseen all this would 
happen to me and my  family, then I never would have taken that step. I have 
to admit it.  It is not one I would have willingly taken had I seen all this 
coming.         But the English, and I say this immodestly, we have a certain 
 characteristic. I remember Australian television telephoning me in  May this 
year, when I won another case yet against the Australian  government. Because 
it is a worldwide fight. The government is trying  to ban me and stop me from 
speaking. Australian Television which is  on my side phoned me and said "Mr. 
Irving, why do you keep on doing  this? Why are you spending hundreds of 
thousands of dollars fighting  the Australian government to get in and 
continue your lecture tour?   Why are you continuing your campaign?  This 
crusade, this  international campaign for Real History?"  The international 
campaign  for real history of which this is the poster (holds up a large 
poster  of David Irving) for the last two or thee years, around the  world. I 
 replied to the Australian television commentator. I replied, "my  opponents 
have misunderstood us, they have underestimated the  English, The English 
march towards the sounds of gunfire, When we hear  the sounds of gunfire we 
start marching towards those guns and we keep  marching as long as the guns 
keep firing".  
If the Jewish community, internationally, against whom I personally  bear no 
grudge, believe me, stopped their campaign against me, then I  would stop 
marching. But as long as they do what they are doing in  their  insensate way 
I will keep up the campaign the way I am doing it.         And so the fight 
has gone on world wide. Let me tell you some of the  highlights since I last 
came and  spoke to you here in Oregon, in  Gresham, In October 1992 two years 
ago, almost to the day. The first  time I had been in Oregon to speak, 
wonderful audience the same kind  of scum outside, hired, Someone pays them to 
demonstrate. These people  don't come on their own volition. All that kind of 
thing takes money,  Exactly the same kind of thing happens in Ireland, and 
elsewhere, and  it is always the same people putting up the money to organize 
the  demonstrations.         A few days after I spoke to you here in Oregon 
two years ago, I went  up to Victoria on Vancouver Island, and I addressed the 
Canadian Free  Speech League, which was good enough to award me the George 
Orwell  plaque for freedom of speech. In recognition of my stand up to that  
point. Ten minutes after that award I was making my speech of thanks   when 
eight Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers burst in and  dragged me off in 
handcuffs. A really Orwellian scene you might  admit.          Dragged off in 
handcuffs and for the next three weeks I had to fight  a running battle. First 
of all in Vancouver. Held the  first two days in  five different prisons so my 
own lawyer could not find me. That was  after I spoke to you here. Then over 
to Niagara Falls, where I was  last night, again arrested, again held in 
prison in Niagara Falls,  finally flung onto the floor of a prison van on 
November the 13th, two  years ago, then driven at high speed to Toronto 
airport, and put on a  plane bound for London. At the orders of the minister 
Bernard Belcourt  of Canada,         I know this because all across Canada I 
have friends, I have a lot of  friends in Canada. One of these turned out to 
be the man in charge of  the prison holding center at Toronto. The Pierce 
International  Airport, at Toronto. He said, "Mr. Irving I have left your cell 
door  open. I don't believe in what is going on here. I will not have you  
left in handcuffs. Until your plane comes this evening as far as i am  
concerned, you are free to come and go as you please. You can use  the phone 
on the desk to call the radio and TV stations and the  Media." Of course I 
did. I Said "why are you doing it?" and he said  "Mr. Irving that phone has 
been ringing itself off the hook, All day  today, I've had phone calls all day 
from the minister in person. To  notify him the moment when your plane takes 
off bound for London."        This is an indication the kind of clout our 
enemies wield when they  can have a minister trembling, quivering, with fear, 
telephoning  police officers at airports demanding to know when the dreaded 
enemy  has left Canadian soil. And so it was in Australia too, I was supposed 
to go  to Australia a few months later after I spoke to you, and carry on a 6 
weeks  speaking tour right across Australia in the campaign for Real History. 
  Banned from Australia. Not allowed to set foot in Australia. But  they 
underestimated us, our traditional enemy, because they made a  mistake.       
  They had to admit at the end of three or four weeks, that  they had lost the 
battle of the press against David Irving, We had won  the battle because they 
do not control the press in Australia. Not  like they do in a large part of 
the United States. That's not to say   the entire United States is controlled 
by these elements, But  significant parts of it is. Certainly in England, 
Certainly in Germany  now. Certainly in Canada. But not in Australia. The 
Australian press  is controlled by Rupert Murdoch and the Fairfax family. So 
our  traditional enemies did not get diddly.  Every Australian newspaper  ran 
horrified editorials about what was being done to me and why I was  being kept 
out, and what was going on. So they began to investigate.  So they found out 
that these people had been bankrolling Keatings  labor party. They were the 
ones who had put up a large part of the  election campaign funds. They were 
now calling in their markers and  demanding I  be kept out. So I couldn't 
deliver my lectures across  Australia. But we managed to get our message 
across just the same.  We fought them in the Federal court in Australia and my 
 lawyer, in Australia a very fine man called Ed Wall, said "Mr. Irving,  
assuming you lose the federal court action, why don't you prepare a  video of 
the speech you would have made and we'll get the videos  10,000 copies 
plastered across Australia. We'll hold premiers in the  seven biggest cities 
on the day after the court finds against you. So  we did that. The court found 
against me in the first instance. We had  10,000 copies that video rushed in 
and our enemies tried to get the  video prosecuted as an unlicensed video.    
      An interesting thing happened.  In two days we got the videos cleared  
by the Australian Video Censorship Board by paying the 2,000 dollars  fee to 
get it rushed through in two days. A few weeks later the  Australian press 
reported that a member of the Australian Parliament  had asked a question in 
the Parliament about a hidden microphone that  had been found planted in the 
Video Censorship boards office by the  Israeli secret service.         This 
shows that we are up against governments here. There are people  not just with 
private vested interests, like the Simon Wiesenthal  Center in Los Angeles who 
are trying to suppress Real History, But  governments who have their own vital 
interests at stake. Are doing  what they can to silence me. And of course they 
wanted to know which  member of the board had voted in favor of having the 
video released  and whose against it. Eight had voted in favor and one in 
favor of  total censorship of the video. And this is basically what we are up 
 against world wide. People with colossal money. The Anti-Defamation  League, 
which is a body probably familiar to some in this room, and  certainly not 
unconnected with the mob outside. The Anti-Defamation  League has an annual 
budget of $37,000,000. At their disposal, To  prevent as it turns out Real 
History being put about. And yet they  are losing the battle, because last 
April the American public was  astonished to read in their papers that a 
Gallup poll had been taken  which showed that 25% of the American public 
didn't believe in  holocaust, They believed that quite possibly it didn't 
happen. What ever it  was. A horrifying figure. A similar poll has now been 
taken in Australia,  and thanks entirely to the efforts of my enemies down 
there 25% of the  Australians also are now having second thoughts.           
Should we doubt that version of history?  Well common sense dictates  that 
there is probably sound reason to doubt. Why else would   Hollywood make a 
movie called Schindler's List? It was because the  Revisionists were gaining 
hand over foot in this particular debate.          It is an extraordinary 
thing.  They say we are not to be debated.  They refuse to go on television 
programs with us in order to effectively to  silence us. Because television in 
this country insist that both sides of a  debate shall be heard. So by 
refusing to appear against us they effectively  silence our voice too. Except 
for an occasional program like the  Donnahue show. 
        Let me make myself plain therefore straight away what my own personal 
 position on that very narrow of part history, called the holocaust  is. There 
is no doubt in my mind that very large numbers of Jews and  others were 
massacred by the Nazis on the eastern front during WW2.  There were machine 
gunned into pits, not only by the Germans,.. by the  Ukrainians, Lithuanians, 
Latvians. There is no doubt in my mind this  happened and I can give  plenty 
of reasons why. I'll give one example  of it. The kind of sources I use, not 
just cheap eye witness  evidence. But people telling me something against 
themselves. Hitler's  film cameraman who took the wonderful color photographs. 
That are in  the Hitler Biography which I have outside. Which some of you have 
now.  Three thousand color photographs he took while on Hitler's private  
staff.  He is still alive living near lake Constance .         Over the years 
I was writing that book, fifteen or twenty years, I  used to visit him, and 
gradually get him out of his shell and he would  talk to me about these years. 
One morning, two or three in the  morning, we're talking over a bottle of wine 
about these years. He  recalled, with a certain degree of nostalgia, how 
Heinrich Himmler the  chief of the SS once came to him at Hitler's 
headquarters and said,  "Herr Prinz it's pretty  boring here in the wolf'S 
lair. Would you like  to take a tour of the eastern front tomorrow and the 
next few days?"   Prinz willing snapped up the idea and joined Himmler's 
motorcade.          They drove out to Minsk, behind the eastern  front.  After 
a few days of touring police units there, Himmler said to  Prinz " Herr Prinz 
tomorrow I'm going to go witness a mass execution.   Would you, like to come 
along and watch too?"        This is where I have to admit the German 
mentality differs from the  English mentality. Because if Herr Himmler had 
said. Herr Irving would  you like to watch a mass execution tomorrow? I think 
I would have found  something urgent to do elsewhere. I would have suddenly 
remembered an  urgent appointment elsewhere.          Not Herr Prinz.  Herr 
Prinz, expressed a prurient interest in what a     mass execution looked like. 
So he went to have a look.  Next morning  he found himself at one end of a 
field with Heinrich Himmler and  another man who was a well known stage 
impresario. At the other end  of the field a pit had been dug out and truck 
loads of people were  being driven up an shot into it. He described this to me 
at two or  three in the morning over a bottle of his best wine that had been  
brought up to celebrate the occasion of my visit from his cellar.   Mrs. Prinz 
sitting at the other end of the sofa pricked up her ears  and said. " 
Walter... You never told me this before."  He's run his  mouth off a bit. He 
can't go back, He cant reel the words back in.  He  apologized and thought he 
had told her once before. But obviously she  has never heard this story in her 
life before. Mrs. Prinz probes a  little deeper. She says. "Were women and 
children there, Walter?" And  he can't remember.  But from his eyes it is 
quite plain he could  remember quite well. Ten years later when I asked him to 
repeat the  story again he repeated it in the same detail. In fact it was 
clear  there were only women an children being shot that day.          To me 
that totally inexplicable crime, atrocity, did happen on the  eastern front in 
Germany. Inexplicable to each one of us in this  room.  We cant understand, 
that things like this happen in war.  We  can't understand in the mind numbing 
brutality of war. We cant go  inside a soldiers mind. What happened in the 
Vietnamese war for  example. What happened to make Lt. Calley order all the 
villagers shot  at Mei Lai. What makes that kind of thing happen I cant say.  
       Without examining it further. Suffice to say that kind of thing did  
happen.  You can take it from me and I think  it is therefore an insult   for 
anybody to call me a holocaust denier. Because I have gone around  the world 
describing episodes like that. But other isolated episodes  on the eastern 
front where undoubtedly atrocities were committed.          But for the rest 
of the holocaust legend I don't buy it. Not one bit.  I am not going to dwell 
on this appalling history of the war too much.  But I know there are a few new 
faces here today, so I will tell you the  reasons why you shouldn't believe 
it. Here is Auschwitz.  An air  photograph of Auschwitz.  Magnificat quality 
of the photograph here.  Look at it. Ten thousand meters up 30,000 feet up you 
can see the  quality of this photograph. You can see people walking around in 
the  streets, You can see the vans, You can see trucks. You can see the  
buildings, See the roofs of the buildings, Then you begin to see odd  things. 
Things that are missing. Things that are missing from this  beautiful 
phonograph of Auschwitz in 1944 that should be there.  There are no openings 
in the roofs of the buildings which are  identified now as the gas chambers. 
Through which according to all the  eyewitnesses, the SS guards tipped pellets 
 to kill the hundreds of  people in the gas chambers. You can see very clearly 
that those roofs  are bare. There are no holes in the roofs. No openings.  
But if you go to Auschwitz now you can see that same building and  there are 
square holes in the roof. And you wonder how they got there.   The answer is, 
the Auschwitz State Museum will now rather shamefacedly  admit. Yes they did 
reconstruct these buildings after the war. With  Polish labor, to make them 
look like gas chambers as described by the  so called eye witnesses. So what 
they show the tourists, is in fact a fake.  Or what they call a 
reconstruction. A reconstruction in the sense of  Disneyland. The fairy castle 
in Disneyland is a reconstruction. That is not  to say the castle ever 
existed.         So it is in Auschwitz two.  And so you can prove it too from 
the  photographs which were only released in the 1970s.  Until the mid  1970s 
these "holocaust eyewitnesses " had no idea that the REAL   eyewitness 
evidence existed in the form of the incontrovertible  evidence of the cameras. 
There is more to it than that because on  this photograph you will also find 
missing any huge mountains of coke.  The Commandment of Auschwitz Rudolph 
Hoess said on some days he could  killed 60,000 people a day and cremated 
60,000 people a day.         It's easy to say that and I don't know why 
Rudolph Hoess said that,   the Commandment of Auschwitz. I think it is for a 
psychiatrist to say  why people say things under stress.  When they are being 
interrogated.   Certainly, now in England, the trend is more and more away 
from  confessions being used as evidence.         Rudolph Hoess for some 
reason unbeknown to us, said he killed 60,000  people a day and cremated them. 
To cremate one body it takes 35 to 40  kilograms of coke, ladies and 
gentlemen. In even the most efficient  crematorium.         So to cremate 
60,000 bodies you would need 2,000 tons of coke a day.   A huge mountain of 
coke.  None of which is visible on these air  photographs near the buildings 
identified as crematorium.  Not only in   Auschwitz 1 but also here in 
Auschwitz 2  a rather larger scale  picture of it taken from a greater height. 
Here is I G Farben factory.   There is Auschwitz 1, again very tiny on this 
phonograph. Auschwitz 2  also known as Berkineau.          We have also the 
same quality of photograph of Auschwitz 2.  Total  absence of heaps of coke. 
No convoy of trucks lined up outside the  crematoria bringing the enormous 
quantities of coke being consumed.  No mountains of coke there, no railway 
lines bringing coke to the  crematoria.  It's a hard fact.  
So what ever Rudolph Hoess said it's obviously a lie and I don't know  why he 
said it. But the fact remains he couldn't have cremated 60,000  bodies a day. 
Possibly 60,000 bodies in the entire  period of  Auschwitz. During the war 
years, and I will come back to that  speculation in a minute.         What 
else is not visible on the photograph?  There is no smoke.  Remember the 
eyewitnesses who describe how the chimneys continuously  spewed smoke? See 
Schindler's list, ashes flutter down and he flicks  it off his lapel. None of 
this is visible on the photographs either,  No columns of people lining up 
outside. No lines of people standing up  outside the gas chambers,         All 
these things in the eyewitness accounts are missing in the  phonographs.  So 
what did happen in Auschwitz?  Can we begin to  speculate?  From hard evidence 
what I call real history. It is this  word "Real History" which makes our 
enemies squirm and go chanting  around the building here, in canting against 
us.          We,ll they've had an easy run for 45 years remember.  They had an 
 easy run until Ernst Zundel.  You can think what you will about Ernst  
Zundel, But he is man of enormous personal courage and character. I  
personally stand up for him and I know he has been subjected to  terrible 
vilification in the press both in U S and in Canada. He's a  man who keeps his 
word, he is man who has a clear sense of mission and  purpose.         Until 
he first began first probing this particular historical matter  in the early 
1980s, the traditional enemies of the truth, had a very  clear run. In fact 
until about 5 yeas ago they even managed to get  that old hoary propaganda 
myth believed world wide namely; that the  Nazis had boiled down bodies of 
their enemies and converted them into  bars of soap.        Boiling down the 
Jews and making bars of soap. What kind of mind can  invent that propaganda 
lie? What kind of incorrigible belief that  people would want to wash with 
bars of soap that had been made that  way? But it gets worse than that, 
because in Nuremberg they actually  introduced bars of soap into evidence. 
They actually had bars of soap  introduced as evidence. Physical evidence in 
Nuremberg of what Nazis  had done to the Jews. And in recent years they 
actually buried bars  of soap in concentrated ground in Israel. Chanted the 
kaddish. the  funeral dirge, over these bars of soap buried in Israel.  But in 
1985  Yad Vashem Institute finally admitted the whole thing was a propaganda  
lie.  That there never had been bars of soap made by the Nazis. But  even then 
they incorrigibly said it was a Nazi lie.        Which again is mind bendingly 
devious. A Nazi propaganda lie that  these bars existed. They didn't. No bars 
of soap was manufactured  from the bodies of Jews or anybody else. This is 
just one example of  the lies that has been  circulated by the so called 
historians since  WW2.          So we have a terrible problem. The historians 
now,(have a  problem)  because world wide laws are being passed to reinforce 
these lies. In France,  for example it would be a criminal offense, to 
question even now the bars of  soap story.  Because in France on 14th of July 
1990 President Mitterand  signed into law, a law which had been drafted by a 
communist named  Gaither, which makes it a criminal offense to question crimes 
against   humanity as defined in the Nuremberg trials. Of course the bars of  
soap was introduced into evidence in the Nuremberg trials. Believe me Ladies 
and Gentlemen, this is no idle anecdote.  I have now  been summoned to appear 
in the courts in Paris. On August 8th I  received through the British 
Government channels all the French  prosecuting papers for me to be prosecuted 
in the courts in France. The  hearing to be held on August 8th. I don't know 
what happened as I  didn't go. Because of this. In the fastness of home in 
London. In  Mayfair. In Grosvenor Square. A hundred yards from the American  
Embassy. Where the Stars and Strips permanently fly atop the building.   In my 
own home in London, I gave an interview to a French Journalist.  Which then 
printed in that interview in Paris. That Mr. Irving has said,  in his opinion 
the Gas Chambers in Auschwitz shown the tourists, are  fakes. Constructed by 
the Poles after the war. Which is true of  course, because the Poles have 
admitted it. But of course it challenges the  crimes against humanity as 
defined by the Nuremberg Tribunal.         But I'm saying this in London. Just 
talking to a Journalist in my  own home.  No matter, I am to be prosecuted. So 
I received the papers,  the indictment, the charge sheet, and everything right 
through the  mail in London. Here is the ultimate irony. I could have brought 
it  here and showed it to you.  I have it in the back. I will show it if  you 
want. The charge which is sent to me in French. Says, "You are  accused of 
having said in an interview with a journalist of (French  Journalist) Paris. 
The following; That in your opinion the dot,dot,dot,  (censored) by the 
Gaither law, dot, dot, dot,  did no exist.  That is in the  actual charge 
sheet for this criminal hearing. They wont actually use the  word in the 
charge sheet, of the magistrates court in Paris. And there is a  reason for it 
of course, because you must remember the penalty is not  the 2 or 3 thousand 
franc fine they impose in you. But the magistrate  orders you are then to 
publish the hearings findings, the judgements  in 8 or 10 national newspapers 
of France at your expense. That is the  penalty of course. A colossal cost 
involved in publishing a display  advertisement. It reminds of the old German 
custom of, not only in  the 3rd Reich, but before, a bill was sent to the 
executed man for the  price of the bullet that shot him. This is the same kind 
of thing you  are made to pay the cost of the advertising your own penalty.  
Of  course it would be counter productive if the advertisement would  include 
the fact that I had challenged the gas chambers. So under the  Gaither law I 
am not even allowed to include that in the penalty.   You living here in 
America, thank God the land of free speech, the  land of the first amendment, 
Thank God, Thank God, Thank God.  I can  come here and speak freely. Within 
the law. You are entitled to  listen to me. Within the law  
        Let me make myself plain therefore straight away. What my own  
personal position on that very narrow  part of history called the holocaust  
is. There is no doubt in my mind that very large numbers of Jews and others  
were massacred by the Nazis on the eastern front during WW2.  There were 
machine gunned into pits, not only by the Germans, but by the  Ukrainians, 
Lithuanians, Latvians. There is no doubt in my mind this  happened, and I can 
give  plenty of reasons why. I'll give one example of it. The kind of sources 
I use, not just cheap eye witness  evidence, But people telling me something 
against themselves. Hitler's  film cameraman, who took the wonderful color 
photographs, that are in  the Hitler Biography which I have outside. Which 
some of you have now.  Three thousand color photographs he took while on 
Hitler's private  staff.  He is still alive living near lake Constance .      
   Over the years I was writing that book, fifteen or twenty years, I  used to 
visit him, and gradually get him out of his shell. He would  talk to me about 
these years. One morning, two or three in the  morning, We're talking over a 
bottle of wine about these years. He  recalled with a certain degree of 
nostalgia, how Heinrich Himmler the  chief of the SS once came to him at 
Hitler's headquarters and said,  "Herr Prinz it's pretty  boring here in the 
wolf's lair. Would you like  to take a tour of the eastern front tomorrow and 
the next few days?"   Prinz willingly snapped up the idea and joined Himmler's 
motorcade.          They drove out to Minsk on the eastern front... behind the 
eastern  front. After a few days of touring police units there, Himmler said 
to  Prinz "Herr Prinz, tomorrow I'm going to go witness a mass execution.   
Would you, like to come along and watch too?"        This is where I have to 
admit the German mentality differs from the  English mentality. Because if 
Herr Himmler had said, Herr Irving would  you like to watch a mass execution 
tomorrow, I think I would have found  something urgent to do elsewhere. I 
would have suddenly remembered an  urgent appointment elsewhere.          Not 
Herr Prinz. Herr Prinz expressed a prurient interest in what a  mass execution 
looked like. So he went to have a look. Next morning  he found himself at one 
end of a field with Heinrich Himmler and  another man who was a well known 
stage impresario. At the other end  of the field a pit had been dug out and 
truck loads of people were  being driven up an shot, into it.          He 
described this to me at two or three in the morning over a  bottle of his best 
wine that had been brought up to celebrate the occasion  of my visit. From his 
cellar. Mrs. Prinz sitting at the other end of the  sofa pricked up her ears 
and said. " Walter... You never told me this  before."  He's run his mouth off 
a bit. He can't go back, He cant reel the  words back in.  He apologized and 
thought he had told her once before. But  obviously she has never heard this 
story in her life. Mrs. Prinz probes a  little deeper. She says, "were women 
and children there, Walter?" And  he can't remember.  But from his eyes it is 
quite plain he could  remember quite well. Ten years later when I asked him to 
repeat the  story again, he repeated it in the same detail. In fact it was 
clear  there were only women an children being shot that day.         To me 
that totally inexplicable crime, atrocity, did happen on the  eastern front in 
Germany. Inexplicable to each one of us in this  room. We cant understand that 
things like this happen in war.  We  cant understand in the mind numbing 
brutality of war. We cant go  inside a soldiers mind. What happened in the 
Vietnamese war for  example. What happened to make Lt. Calley order all the 
villagers shot  at Mei Lai. What makes that kind of thing happen I cant say.  
Without examining it further. Suffice to say, that kind of thing did  happen 
and you can take it from me and I think it is therefore insult   for anybody 
to call me a holocaust denier. Because I have gone around  the world 
describing episodes like that. But other isolated episodes  on the eastern 
front where undoubtedly atrocities were committed.          But for the rest 
of the holocaust legend I don't buy it.  Not one  bit. I am not going to dwell 
on this appalling history of the war too much.  But I know there are a few new 
faces here today, so I will tell you the  reasons why you shouldn't believe 
it. Here is Auschwitz.  An air  photograph of Auschwitz.  Magnificat quality 
of the photograph here.  Look at it. Ten thousand meters up 30,000 feet up, 
you can see the  quality of this photograph. You can see people walking around 
in the  streets, You can see the vans, You can see trucks. You can see the  
buildings, See the roofs of the buildings. Then you begin to see odd  things. 
Things that are missing. Things that are missing from this  beautiful  
phonograph of Auschwitz in 1944 that should be there.  There are no openings 
in the roofs of the buildings which are  identified now as the gas chambers. 
Through which according to all the  eyewitnesses, the SS guards tipped pellets 
 to kill the hundreds of  people in the gas chambers.  You can see very 
clearly that those roofs  are bare. There are no holes in the roofs. No 
openings.          But if you go to Auschwitz now, you can see that same 
building and  there are square holes in the roof. And you wonder how they got 
there.   The answer is, the Auschwitz State Museum will now rather 
shamefacedly  admit. Yes they did reconstruct these buildings after the war. 
With  Polish labor, to make them look like gas chambers as described by the  
so called eye witnesses.  So what they show the tourists, is in fact a fake.  
Or what they call a reconstruction. A reconstruction in the sense of  
Disneyland.  The fairy castle in Disneyland is a  reconstruction.  That is  
not to say the castle ever existed.         So it is in Auschwitz two.  And so 
you can prove it too from the  photographs which were only released in the 
1970s.  Until the mid  1970s these "holocaust eyewitnesses " had no idea that 
 the REAL   eyewitness evidence existed in the form of the incontrovertible  
evidence of the cameras. There is more to it than, that because on  this 
photograph you will also find missing any huge mountains of coke.  The 
Commandant of Auschwitz, Rudolph Hoess, said on some days he  killed 60,000 
people a day and cremated 60,000 people a day.  It's easy to say that and I 
don't know why Rudolph Hoess said that.   The Commandment of Auschwitz.I think 
it is for a psychiatrist to say  why people say things under stress. When they 
are being interrogated.   Certainly now in England the trend is more and more 
away from  confessions being used as evidence. Rudolph Hoess for some reason 
unbeknown  to us, said he killed 60,000 people a day and cremated them. To 
cremate one  body it takes 35 to 40 kilograms of coke ladies and gentlemen. In 
even the  most efficient crematorium. So to cremate 60,000 bodies you would 
need 2,000  tons of coke a day. A huge mountain of coke. None of which is 
visible on  these air photographs near the buildings identified as 
crematorium. Not only  in Auschwitz 1 but also here in Auschwitz 2 a rather 
larger scale  picture of it taken from a greater height. Here is I G Farben 
factory.   There is Auschwitz 1, again very tiny on this phonograph. Auschwitz 
2  also known as Berkineau.  We have also the same quality of photograph of  
Auschwitz 2. Total absence of heaps of coke. No convoy of trucks lined up  
outside the crematoria bringing the enormous quantities of coke being  
consumed. No mountains of coke there, no railway lines bringing coke to the  
crematoria.  It's a hard fact.          So what ever Rudolph Hoess said it's 
obviously a lie and I don't know  why he said it. But the fact remains he 
couldn't have cremated 60,000  bodies a day. Possibly 60,000 bodies in the 
entire period of  Auschwitz. During the war years, and I will come back to 
that  speculation in a minute.         What else is not visible on the 
photograph?  There is no smoke.  Remember the eyewitnesses who describe how 
the chimneys continuously  spewed smoke?  See Schindler's list, ashes flutter 
down and he flicks  it off his lapel. None of this is visible on the 
photographs either,  No columns of people lining up outside. No lines of 
people standing up  outside the gas chambers,         All these things in the 
eyewitness accounts are missing in the  phonographs. So what did happen in 
Auschwitz?  Can we begin to  speculate?  From hard evidence. What I call real 
history. It is this  word "Real History" which makes our enemies squirm and go 
chanting  around the building here, in canting against us. We,ll they've had 
an easy  run for 45 years remember. They had an easy run until Ernst Zundel. 
You  can think what you will about Ernst Zundel But he is man of enormous  
personal courage and character. I personally stand up for him and I know he  
has been subjected to terrible vilification in the press both in U S and in  
Canada. He's a man who keeps his word, he is man who has a clear sense of  
mission and purpose.         Until he first began first probing this 
particular historical matter  in the early 1980s the traditional enemies of 
the truth, had a very  clear run.  In fact until about 5 yeas ago they even 
managed to get  that old hoary propaganda myth believed world wide namely; 
that the  Nazis had boiled down bodies of their enemies and converted them 
into  bars of soap.        Boiling down the Jews and making bars of soap. What 
kind of mind can  invent that propaganda lie?  What kind of incorrigible 
belief that  people would want to wash with bars of soap that had been made 
that  way?  But it gets worse than that, because in Nuremberg they actually  
introduced bars of soap into evidence. They actually had bars of soap  
introduced as evidence. Physical evidence in Nuremberg of what Nazis  had done 
to the Jews. And in recent years they actually buried bars  of soap in 
concentrated ground in Israel. Chanted the kaddish the  funeral dirge over 
these bars of soap buried in Israel.  But in 1985  Yad Vashem Institute 
finally admitted the whole thing was a propaganda  lie. That there never had 
been bars of soap made by the Nazis. But  even then they incorrigibly said it 
was a Nazi lie. Which again is mind bendingly devious.  A Nazi propaganda lie 
that  these bars existed. They didn't. No bars of soap were manufactured  from 
the bodies of Jews or anybody else. This is just one example of  the lies that 
has been circulated by the so called historians since  WW2.          So we 
have a terrible problem. The historians now because world wide  laws are being 
passed to reinforce these lies. In France, for example  it would be a criminal 
offense to question even now the bars of soap  story.  Because in France on 
14th of July 1990 President Mitterand  signed into law a law which had been 
drafted by a communist named  Gaither which makes it a criminal offense to 
question crimes against   humanity as defined in the Nuremberg trials. Of 
course the bars of  soap was introduced into evidence in the Nuremberg trials. 
       Believe me Ladies and Gentlemen, this is no idle anecdote. I have  now 
been summoned to appear in the courts in Paris. On August 8th I  received 
through the British Government channels, all the French  prosecuting papers 
for me to be prosecuted in the courts in France. The  hearing to be held on 
August 8th. I don't know what happened as I  didn't go. Because of this. In 
the fastness of home in London, in  Mayfair, in Grosvenor Square. A hundred 
yards from the American  Embassy where the Stars and Strips permanently fly 
atop the building.   In my own home in London I gave an interview to a French 
Journalist which  then printed in that interview in Paris. That Mr. Irving has 
said.  In his opinion the Gas Chambers in Auschwitz shown the tourists are  
fakes. Constructed by the Poles after the war. Which is true of  course, 
because the Poles have admitted it.         But of course it challenges the 
crimes against humanity as defined by  the Nuremberg Tribunal. But I'm saying 
this in London. Just talking to a  journalist in my own home. No matter. I am 
to be prosecuted. So I received  the papers, the indictment, the charge sheet, 
and everything right through  the mail in London. Here is the ultimate irony. 
I could have brought it  here and showed it to you. I have it in the back. I 
will show it if  you want. The charge which is sent to me in French. Says, 
"you are  accused of having said in an interview with a journalist of (   ?   
)  of Paris. The following; That in your opinion the (. . .) censored by  the 
Gaither law (. . .) did no exist. That is in the actual charge  sheet for this 
criminal hearing. They wont actually use the word in  the charge sheet of the 
magistrates court in Paris. And there is a  reason for it of course. Because 
you must remember the penalty is not  the 2 or 3 thousand franc fine they 
impose in you. But the magistrate  orders you are then to publish the hearings 
findings, the judgements  in 8 or 10 national newspapers of France at your 
expense. That is the  penalty of course.  A colossal cost involved in 
publishing an display  advertisement.  It reminds of the old German custom of, 
not only in  the 3rd Reich, but before. A bill was sent to the executed man 
for the  price of the bullet that shot him. This is the same kind of thing you 
 are made to pay the cost of the advertising your own penalty. Of  course it 
would be counter productive if the advertisement would  include the fact that 
I had challenged the  gas chambers. So under the  Gaither  law I am not even 
allowed to include that in the penalty.          You living here in America, 
thank God the land of free speech, the  land of the first amendment, Thank 
God. Thank God. Thank God. I can  come here and speak freely within the law 
and you are entitled to  listen to me within the law. As Long as I don't 
incite to violence and racial  hatred. Which I don't.  It's incredible for you 
to understand that these kinds of things can  happen, around  the world. In 
the other countries, the so called   democracies of the free world. January 
last year 1993, after I last  spoke to you. I was fined by the German courts 
22,000  dollars for  expressing the opinion the gas chambers shown the 
tourists at  Auschwitz is a fake. Which is true of course. The director of the 
 Auschwitz State Archives has written a letter to a Jewish historian in  New 
Zealand, which he as been man enough to publish, that it is true.  It's a 
reconstruction. And yet I have been fined 22,000 dollars for  saying it. For 
expressing an opinion, Of fact, as a historian.  Because I am incorrigible.. 
Because I still  adhere to that opinion...  Because I refuse to recant, the 
minister of the interior in Germany on   July 1st last year, when I was 
visiting the German  Federal Archives,  ordered that I was to be permanently 
excluded from the German Federal  Archives.         Imagine what would happen 
in this country if president Clinton  or  Janet Reno or someone like that was 
to order that some historian was  to permanently barred from the National 
Archives in Washington DC.   Imagine the outcry, if as in my case, the German 
government announced  the reason for my being banned because it was important 
to protect  the interests of the German Federal Republic. How can it damage 
the  interests of the German Federal Republic to have a historian working   in 
the German archives?  Presumably one can only research the truth.   Well, 
probably because the truth is not what the German government is  interested 
in.         The German Government has egg over its face because the German  
Government has for the last 40 years been paying nearly 1 billion  dollars a 
year to the state of Israel in reparations which now has  turned out to be a 
fake gas chamber. That's basically what it is all  about. The German 
government is trying to conceal the fact as long as  possible. And they use 
increasingly vicious methods. November 9th last  year, when I went to Munich 
to address university students. One phone  call from me in Alabama, where I 
was speaking at the university of  Huntsville to the organizers in Munich, I 
arranged a certain  rendezvous at a certain meeting point at Mervin Pick 
restaurant.  When I got there at the appointed time three days later, the 
Munich  security police were already waiting for me. They had obviously  
tapped the telephone of the people involved. They handed me a document  
permanently banning me and excluding me from Germany for the rest of  my life. 
         Now what is the German government frightened of?  I'm not a  
firebrand. I'm not a revolutionary, I don't go around carrying bombs in my  
suitcase. I've done far less things to Germany than many a  immigrant has done 
or traveler has done there over the past 40 years.         Yet they have 
visited these privations and persecutions on me, and me  alone. No nother 
historian world wide has ever been banned from the  German archives.          
Why?  But of course to their horror they find out they are the people  
suffering.  Because the German archives over the last 30 years has  benefited 
from me to an enormous degree. I've donated to the German  archives half a ton 
of records. The entire diaries of Field marshall  Rommel, Diaries of Heinrich 
Himmler, The entire original papers of  Adolph Eichmann. Which I found in 
Argentina two years ago. All these  things I've  generously and selflessly 
given to the German people. And  that is the way they answer me back and kick 
me in the teeth. And now  the German archives been ordered by the law courts 
to turn this  material over to me at the German taxpayers expense. Half a ton 
of  material.          It is an extraordinary situation and you would imagine 
that the  German newspapers would be full of it. The same as you would think 
the  English newspapers would be full of my victory over the Australian  
government. My new fight against the South African government.  The  fact that 
on July 29 I started a new fight against the Canadian  government gainst the 
injustice of the deportation. Because, in the  meantime, we have found some of 
the methods used by the Canadian  authorities to set me up. But it is being 
hushed up and silenced  world wide. This entire extraordinary fight.          
I have to admit that this is what I find the most thought provoking  matter. I 
never used to believe in international conspiracies. I still  don't want to 
believe in international conspiracies. It is not a  conspiracy really. It is a 
network. It is a network of incredible  complexity and influence and 
forcefulness. I didn't realize this  until I began, with the assistance of 
very large numbers of people  around the world. In my fighting fund we have 
3000 or 4,000 people  assisting me in this incredible battle now.          We 
began forcing governments to open their files. We got court orders  in 
Australia ordering Paul Keating, the prime minister, to open his  files on 
David Irving.  We just got a court order in Canada, under the  access to 
information act, ordering the Canadian government to open  the files on David 
irving. We did the same in South Africa. They are spilling out worms all over 
the table as we open these files.         Its incredible what we find. A 
Jewish historian in England, Professor  Jerald Fleming, born in Breslau. 
Jerald Fleming his English name.   For the last 20 years we've been in 
collegial contact with each other.  Corresponding, Exchanging data, notes, 
facts in the most friendly  way.  His letters getting a little bit oily at 
times, but alright  we  can stand that. It was a useful friendship. At the 
same time, I find in  the Canadian governments files he's written note to the 
Jewish  authorities in London demanding that I should be prosecuted and  
imprisoned by the German Government at the earliest opportunity.  He  doesn't 
know I have that letter yet. I don't know what it is doing in  the Canadian 
government files. An internal letter in England from this  man to the Jewish 
authorities in England.  But it is there.          And so it is in Australia. 
We opened the Australian government  files and we find them conniving with the 
German government. And the  Austrian government. And the South African 
government on ways of  shutting me up and imprisoning me.         February 
11th of this year. I'm working that afternoon in my  apartment.  When there is 
a knock on the door and I look in my little  television monitor and there are 
some policemen down there. I think they have  come about an episode where my 
car was smashed by these same thuggish  types in Brighton in December. The 
man's case came up a few weeks ago.  But no the police came in to my 
apartment. I said how can I help you  and the policeman said "Mr. Irving we 
are ordered to take you to  Pentionville for three months."  Yes indeed! 
Ordered to take me to  Pentionville prison on February 11 this year for three 
months. No  court hearing. No judge. No trial, no nothing. I say what is this 
all  about?  The policeman said "we are very sorry Mr. Irving".  (All the  
police know me in Mayfair know me.)  How may times have they stood at  the 
barricades outside my apartment protecting my apartment. From a  mob of one, 
or two or three thousand  demonstrators. All The scum.  The homosexuals, the 
gypsies, the lesbians, the jews, the blacks, the  immigrants. All coming 
together in a paid mob. To harass, to frighten  to intimidate. Rather like the 
scum here today. The police stood  there on the barricades and is quite plain 
whose side they are on.   They had come with orders to arrest me and take me 
to prison. And so  they did. Straight off to prison in Pentionville which is 
one of  Victorias most gloomy and nasty prisons.         Very Interesting.  I 
was there for two weeks..It took me a week to  get in touch with a lawyer. It 
took me another week to get in front of a  Judge who ordered my instant 
release. In the private papers of the prime  minister of Australia, Paul 
Keating we find the transcript of that hearing,  which I wasn't attending. 
Where the judge ordered that I be sent to prison.  Why Paul Keating has taken 
in interest in this I don't know. It costs an  awful lot of money to get a 
transcript of court hearings in England. He got  it also illegally because it 
was in the prohibited period. When you cant get  that kind of document.  But 
he got it.         I find for the first time. When these documents are 
delivered to me  a few weeks ago. That the people who put me in prison applied 
for me to  be sent to prison for two years. For contempt of court. Contempt of 
 what court?  Contempt of what order? I was never served with any kind  of 
papers, documents or anything.         If I had been sent to prison for two 
years, I would have been  silenced for two years. That what it was all about. 
Instead of course  I put these two weeks to good use. I've traveled a great 
deal around  the outside world. Both sides of the Iron Curtain for many years. 
And so I  had two weeks in the inside world. And a chance to meet a lot of 
very  interesting people as well. I'd like to tell you some of the  anecdotes 
of what happened in prison but it would be out of place  here. Suffice to say 
that life is full of surprises. When I last  spoke to you of course two years 
ago I never realized that a prison  term would come between then and now.     
    But it was a very interesting experience. The prisoners and officers  
lined up to shake my hand. The officer would come into my cell. They  said 
they were not allowed to shake my hand in public.         After two or three 
days they brought my books.  All of them had my  books at home. Some had my 
Rommel biography or something. They brought  them in for me to sign. I began 
to get fan mail from all the other  prisons. Turns out I had quite a little 
support in other prisons.         So it quite a useful experience. I'm glad it 
didn't last any longer  than it did.         But it was food for thought. For 
I thought how many other historians  had been sent to prison to shut them up? 
Why isn't the press saying  anything about it?  We'll eventually some of the 
liberal newspapers  like the Guardian did raise voices in protest and say what 
is going  on. I didn't know what was going on until I saw Paul Keatings papers 
 on this. 



Article 9601 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: David Irving fined $6,000 in German trial.. He vows to defy judge!
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:15:04 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 158
Message-ID: <44d7a8$pka@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9601 soc.culture.jewish:7581

From the _IHR Newsletter_, July/August 1992 (Number 88):
           Irving Fined $6,000 in German "Gas Chamber" Trial
                Historian Defies Judge in Dramatic Case
   
     British historian David Irving was fined 10,000 marks ($6,000) by a 
German court May 5 for public statements denouncing stories of mass 
exterminations of Jews in gas chambers at Auschwitz as a myth.
     Munich district court judge Thomas Stelzner ruled that Irving was guilty 
of "disparaging the memory of the dead," a crime in Germany that effectively 
applies only to Jewish victims.
     Stelzner rejected Irving's appeal against a previous fine of 7,000 marks 
($4,300) for telling a Munich meeting in April 1990 that the building in 
Auschwitz that has been portrayed for decades to tourists as an extermination 
gas chamber is a phoney reconstruction ("Attrappen"), just like the one at 
Dachau.  Judge Stelzner said that he was increasing the fine because of 
Irving's defiant "lack of understanding," and because he had earned money from 
the dissemination of his Focal Point edition of the _Leuchter Report_.
     During the hearing, Irving stood by his public statements, maintaining 
that no Jews were gassed in Auschwitz.
     Irving's attorneys, Dr. Klaus Goebel and Hajo Herrmann (a decorated 
Second World War Luftwaffe colonel), called certified chemist Germar Rudolf as 
an expert witness to prove that, "in fact, the buildings in question at 
Auschwitz were never used as Zyklon B gas chambers for killing people."  An 
expert report by Rudolf establishes that there are no measurable traces of 
ferro-ferriccyanide (from Zyklon) in the walls of the Auschwitz structures 
allegedly used as homicidal gas chambers, whereas the walls of the camp's 
delousing gas chambers have such traces in abundance.
     Rudolf's report, which provides still more authoritative confirmation of 
the 1988 findings of American gas chamber expert Fred Leuchter, will be 
published in Germany in the next several months.
     The judge seemed to be entirely satisfied with Rudolf's qualifications as 
an expert.  However, when Goebel began to ask the witness about his on-site 
inspection of the Auschwitz "gas chamber" structures, Judge Stelzner 
interrupted to forbid it.
     Prosecuting attorney Kaps told the judge that Rudolf should not be 
permitted to testify.  His testimony would not be relevant, she argued, 
because "it has now been established that the [Auschwitz] gas chambers no 
longer exist, and that reconstructions have been build in their place."  
(Nevertheless, Auschwitz tour guides continue to show off structures that they 
claim are the original "gas chambers.")
     When defense attorney Goebel asked Kaps to explain what she knew about 
these "reconstructed" gas chambers, she replied: "I have absolutely nothing to 
say."  Goebel: "So, you simply make statements for which you have no basis."  
Kaps: "I'm not saying anything."  Judge: "Madame prosecuting attorney is not 
required to say anything."
     Irving's attorneys presented many additional arguments and made further 
points to strengthen their argument that what Irving had said at the 1990 
meeting in Munich was, in fact, the truth.
     In spite of all of this, the judge finally ruled that the testimony of 
"the expert witness, certified chemist Rudolf, is completely unsuitable as 
evidence" in this case.
     When Goebel asked the judge to explain his ruling, Stelzner stammered 
that Rudolf had not been questioned about his on-site inspection of the 
structures.  At this point, Goebel reminded the judge that he had forbid 
precisely this line of questioning.  Apparently under tremendous pressure, 
Stelzner merely responded in a stammering voice: "I, uh, can only confirm that 
the witness was not asked about this."
     Even though the judge confirmed that the decades-old claim that the 
structures shown to tourists at Auschwitz are not the original "gas chambers," 
he rejected every defense witness and exhibit because, he said, the Auschwitz 
gas chambers have been historically proven.
     If that's true, asked defense attorney Herrmann, what would anyone have 
to lose by permitting Rudolf to testify?  When the judge replied that, "Uh, 
well, time would be lost.  It would also be illegal," attorney Goebel pointed 
out that the law permits an expert witness to testify.  Goebel then went on:
          I have the impression that this court has something to hide,      
otherwise it would permit the expert witness to testify.  I      understand 
that the prosecuting attorney and the court is under      political pressure. 
 Nevertheless, the accused must be given the      opportunity to prove his 
statements.  It is intolerable that in a      society of law that you [the 
judge] can prevent me from      questioning the expert witness about his 
onsite work, and then      reject him [as a witness] because he was not asked 
about this.      You are preventing any discussion of a matter of evidence.
     When defense attorney Herrmann likewise emphasized that Stelzner was free 
to permit all relevant evidence, the judge responded: "I prefer not to . . . 
Yes, it may very well be that, from your point of view, I am hindering the 
presentation of the defense case."
     Dr. Franzisek Piper, director of the Auschwitz State Museum in Poland, 
was similarly rejected as a defense witness by the judge and the prosecuting 
attorney.  Irving's attorneys intended to ask Piper, under oath, to confirm 
that he had privately confided to Freiburg historian Prof. Martin that the 
Auschwitz "gas chamber" shown to tourists is actually a phony reconstruction.
     Attorney Herrmann cited a statement written on January 8, 1979, by former 
German Foreign Minister Genscher: "I am also aware that there were no gas 
chambers in the Auschwitz camp."  This statement cannot be reconciled with the 
verdict in the Frankfurt "Auschwitz trial" of 1965, Herrmann said.  The judge 
responded by declaring: "This writing and the Frankfurt Auschwitz verdict have 
nothing to do with this trial."
     Goebel charged that the court was using wild and groundless arguments in 
an effort to evade the defense team's scientific evidence.
     Stelzner's declaration that extermination gassings of Jews at Auschwitz 
is a "historically established fact" was greeted with derisive laughter by 
Irving supporters in the courtroom.
     Goebel and Herrmann resolved not to put up any longer with such 
intolerable behavior.  After declaring that they were now concluding their 
case, the defense attorneys dramatically walked out of the court room, to the 
sound of supportive applause from most of those in attendance.
     In a dramatic closing statement to the court, Irving defiantly declared 
that this is a political trial, and that the verdict had been decided long 
before it began.
     He said that he had sent aerial reconnaissance photographs taken of 
Auschwitz in 1944 to German historians, asking each one to please show him 
where they believed the "gas chambers" were located.  "But each one of them 
declined," Irving said, adding that German historians are liars and cowards.
     "As a historian," he said, "I have a duty to bring out the truth. As a 
judge, you have the same duty.  All the same, it appears that in Germany you 
have certain difficulties with that."
     Irving has said that he will appeal the May 5 verdict, if need be under 
the United Nations convention on human rights.  Even though he is a citizen of 
a fellow European Community country, Irving has officially been banned from 
entering Germany.  Nevertheless, he has visited Germany dozens of times since 
the ban was issued.
     In Italy, authorities prevented Irving from landing at the Rome airport 
in mid-June because he was scheduled to address a meeting of the Western 
Cultural Movement.  In spite of the ban, and a violent protest by Jewish 
demonstrators who threw stones and paint, about 300 mostly younger people met 
anyway at the hotel conference site.
     Meanwhile, Jewish organizations in Britain are pressuring book stores not 
to stock or sell the revised new edition of Irving's 850-page master work, 
_Hitler's War_.  (Available from the IHR for $49.95, plus $4.00 shipping.)
     Several bookstores have withdrawn the book in the wake of furious 
protests and vandal attacks, although other dealers have declared that they 
will not give in to threats and intimidation, and will continue to carry the 
Revisionist work.
     Irving is convinced that the tide of history is with the Revisionists.  
"It is going to be a hot twelve months," he recently told a reporter, "but at 
the end of it, the gas chamber legend will have vanished once and for all."
     Within two years, he told a meeting in Hamburg last November, "this myth 
of mass murders of Jews in the death factories of Auschwitz, Majdanek and 
Treblinka, etc., etc., which in fact never took place. . . this horrific ghost 
of guilt from which the German people have suffered for the last 45 years, 
will be laid to rest."
     Irving, author of dozens of best-selling, acclaimed works of 
twentieth-century history, will address the Eleventh IHR conference in 
October.
[end of article]




Article 9604 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!kryten.awinc.com!news.netnet.net!netnet2.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: David Irving Speaks Part 2 of 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:22:45 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 567
Message-ID: <44d7or$pka@inforamp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9604 soc.culture.jewish:7587

               Part 6


We have to be tasteless about this. I am going to be tasteless about 
it. It calls for extreme tastelessness. We cant fight back with kid 
gloves. When I get into Australia in January, after we defeat them in 
the courts next month. My lawyer says there is no reason to doubt we 
will defeat them in the courts. The Australian government deliberately 
changed the law in order to exclude me. They changed the law to 
exclude people of bad character. So the government just has to 
announce that David Irving is a bad character and they wont let him 
in. In May they announced just that. The Australian media called me 
when I was down in Florida, writing. The Australian media said, "Mr. 
Irving, in Parliament this afternoon the Australian minister of 
immigration has announced that you are excluded because you are 
considered a bad character. What is you comment on that?" I said,   It 
is an unusual experience as an Englishman to have an Australian 
politician describe me as a bad character. But I now know if 
televisions detective Lt. Colombo were to criticise the cut of my 
raincoat."  They also said I was a deported person from Canada. That 
I was a person with a criminal record. I said it was an odd thing for 

the Australian to protest about letting someone in with a criminal 
record, considering the whole of Australia is populated with deported 
English criminals. They didn't like that one. 
        When I get to Australia in January I know what is going to happen. 
They are going to wheel  out all the so called eyewitnesses. One in 
particular Mrs. Altman I've clashed with her once or twice. She is very 
convincing. They can be very convincing. Because they have do it so 
often over the years. They've had a free run. We're going to meet because she 
has that tattoo. I am going to say. "You have that tattoo,  we all 
have the utmost sympathy for you but how much money have  you made on 
it? In the last 45 years?  Can I estimate?  Quarter of a million? Half 
million? Certainly not less. That's how much you've made from the 
German taxpayers and the American taxpayers."  Ladies and gentlemen 
you're paying 3 billion dollars  a year to the state of Israel.  
Compensation to people like Mrs. Altman. She'll say, "why not. I 
suffered."  I'll say you didn't.  You survived. You are a survivor.  
By definition you didn't suffer.  Not half as much as those who died. 
Those who did die in the so called gas chamber, gas ovens, or cremated, 
or died in the plague, or epidemics, or what ever in Auschwitz.  They 
suffered.  You didn't. You're the one making the money. Explain to 
me this. Why are you people have made all the money, but Australian 
soldiers who suffered for five years in Japanese prison camps haven't got 
a bent nickel out of it?"  
        I can guarantee this will evoke  a wave of sympathy around 16 million 
Australians television viewers that evening. When I come out with 
that extremely tasteless remark. This is why they don't want to let me in. 
They know I am going to be tasteless about the whole matter. But you need 
tastelessness to break the taboo. They still can't be tasteless. They are 
still locking up people who are asking for the truth.  
        It is possible to be absolutely precise and specific about what 
happened in Auschwitz. No question at all exists in any ones mind now. 
Even our opponents know that we are right. Our opponents have 
published in a wonderful book by a man called John Claude Pressaic. Who 
is on of our most dedicated enemies. By accident they have published 
the total quantity of coke delivered to Auschwitz in the war years.  
        Two thousand one hundred and eighty eight tons of coke, were 
delivered to the crematoria during the entire period Auschwitz was in 
operation.  2188 tons. You can do the calculation on the back of an envelope. 
 
35 or 40 kg per cadaver even if the crematories were operating at their top 
efficiency.  Which they weren't during the war years.  You get a 
quantity of 65 or 70 thousand  bodies. MAXIMUM that were being 
cremated at Auschwitz  during the entire period. And Incidentally 
that tallies with the capacity of the crematories in Auschwitz. We 
know how many crematories there are. We got the design. We actually 
got the design from the Moscow archives now of the Vulcan SS unit 
that built the crematory. How many retorts in each crematorium. We know 
what the operating capacity was. The Tops company that built them kept 
the most precise records, We know how many they could burn in a year, 
in a week, in a day, in a month. Over the entire period that these 
individual crematories were in operation. We know that they could have 
cremated a MAXIMUM of 60 to a 100 thousand bodies. 
        So where does this 1,000,000 or 4,000,000 figure come from?
Imagination that's all it is.  When you start examining the facts you 
come again and again to this figure of 60 or a 100 thousand. And you 
have another cross check because we British were breaking the codes of 
the Commandment of Auschwitz. Night after night he was signaling to 
Berlin. Oswald Pohl the SS Chief of the concentration camps. He was  
reporting night after night the statistics. How many prisoners had 
arrived at Auschwitz of slave laborers, how many had left over the 
previous 24 hours, How many were on hand at midnight, and how many had 
died during the 24 hours. How many had died from all causes.  He 
breaks it down into 4 particular causes. How many had died from 
epidemics, and disease, how many had been hanged, how many had been 
shot. And that is all. The official British Historian Professor Frank 
Hensley. The historian of the British Secret Service who reported these code 
breaking intercepts in volume 2 of the British Official History.  
stated explicitly . In these intercepts there is no reference to 
anyone being gassed. 
        Now of course if Prof. Frank Hensley Master of St Johns College in 
Cambridge now. If he went to France and said that or if he said it in 
his college in Cambridge to a French newspaper journalist he would be 
prosecuted by the French for challenging something as defined by the  
Nurnberg Tribunal. If he went to Germany he would be fined 23,000 dollars he 
would be deported and banned from the German archives.  
If he went to Canada he would be put in handcuffs thrown on the floor 
of a van and taken to Pierson airport. This is how ludicrous it is. 
All the facts are on our side. And yet the media, Hollywood, 
newspapers, the journalists, all belong to this tottering conspiracy 
of silence against us. 
        But it is tottering I think ladies and gentlemen, It has only one 
more year to go.  A year at most. And then finally all the journalists will 
agree we were probably right. Not that they are going to print the 
fact that we were right. The journalists will all then unanimously 
decide they knew it all along. They knew it all along that the 
holocaust was a myth, a legend, large parts of it were untrue.  That 
they had known it all along so what is the fuss all about? Rather like 
the story bars of soap nowadays. That's how journalists are. They 
have no moral fibre, no character. I rank them somewhat lower than 
lawyers in my social strata. When the journalists here wanted to speak to me 
as you saw I refused to speak to them except for the gentleman from the 
Oregonian. What can they do for us? Nothing. I'm far more interested in 
speaking to you. You are the people here with an open mind and hearts for 
what I have to say today. That is why I came to you all across the continent 
during the last 24 hours to speak to you and I shall come to you again 
and again, to report on the progress in this great intellectual  
adventure.   Thank you. 

                         Rest stop.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

                                Q and A

After the break speaking of Frau Schroder, Hitler's secretary

In each of my visits would produce two or three anecdotes. If I so  
much as got out a tram ticket and started writing down notes she would 
clam  up immediately.  I would have to be very careful.  One time at a 
restaurant she said, "you know Herr Irving he could be very cruel". A 
H or the chief as she would call him.  I don't think you are right 
about the Jews. By that time I was developing my notion that Hitler 
probably didn't have the faintest notion of what was going on what 
ever it was. She said, "I don't think you were right about that." So I 
asked, "how do you mean"? She said.  I was with him on the  night of 
the long knives".  The night of the long knives was the night in 1934,  
June the 13th 1934.  Which to historians is the night of the  Long 
Knives when Hitler went to Bavaria and liquidated his opposition. 
Actually had them all rounded up and arrested.  Over the next one or 
two lays were shot.  Or murdered. She was with him then.  She 
explained to me she was in Berlin, Hitler was  in the Rhineland.  He 
telephoned her to come and meet him immediately. Which didn't mean he 
wanted to dictate letters he just needed a human being he could talk 
to on this appalling journey he was about to take.  His first episode 
of vengeance and murder.  I flew over in an airplane with Reichs 
Propaganda  Minister Joseph Gobbels to Munich. Out to the place where 
the victims of the purge were staying.  She talked about Hitler with 
utmost admiration.  His bravery and courage. Going into then lions den 
that night. Arresting them single handed.  Having them taken away to 
prison where they were shot over the next 24 hours.  
Eighty four people were shot over the next two days.  She said that 
night they flew back to Berlin.  Back in the  in Berlin I was 
exhausted, he was exhausted.  I went down to the canteen and ordered 
up a vegetarian meals.  He and I were vegetarians.  He vanished.  
Reappeared an hour later.  Stood in the doorway and said. 
"Now I have had a bath, and I feel as clean as a new born babe".  What 
a sentence.  She spoke that to me in 1974.  Forth years after she 
heard it from Adolph Hitler.  She remembered it.  She knew what it 
meant of course.  He knew he had done something dirty.  Had covered 
himself in blood for the first time. He had murdered all his 
opponents.  He had a bath and now he was a clean as a new born babe 
again.  

I mention this just as an indication that I persuaded these people to 
talk to me against their own interests.   Of course she was defending 
the chief most of the time.  But she thought  she had to tell me that 
bit too.  Very interesting example. 
     Years later she was satisfied, with the biography I wrote about 
Hitler, I think.  She  told me how Hitler sent her down to Munich, in 
the last two days of his life, Saved her life in fact.  Out of the 
bunker in Berlin. Sent her down to Bavaria to destroy all his private 
papers.  She did that. In his desk when doing that she found a stack 
of postcards on which he done sketches. On one was a self portrait.  
On the back he had sketched Eva Braun, his mistress.  Later his wife.  
She gave me that.  I thought I had it with me, but it is out in the 
car and you can understand not wanting to go out and get it. (With the 
mob outside ed.)  An interesting historical exhibit.  The only Adolph 
Hitler self portrait in the world.  She said, "Mr. Irving, I will sign 
it for you to authenticate it for you so people will know it is an 
authentic portrait of Hitler."  I said.  "Fraulein Schroder.  You know 
who sketched and I know who sketched it and that is good enough for 
me."  Ok Questions?

Q  What areas do you and Professor Faurisson disagree and what has 
happened to Fred Leuchter?

A Faurisson is a very prickly character.  He's French.  Faurisson 
disagrees with me on the question of the little "holocausts" Faurisson 
doesn't think there were any holocausts at all.  When  I say to him 
"Mr. Faurisson, quite obviously there were shooting episodes on the 
eastern front where the Nazis or various people working for the Nazis, 
killed tens of thousands of Jews at a time".  He says, "you're wrong 
this never happened either.  You shouldn't believe it.  Those 
documents are fake."  I don't go along with that. I beg to differ with 
him.  I think it is quite helpful that there is dissidents even among 
Revisionists. I'm immensely sorry we cant get the Jewish community t 
debate with us. I think that they will eventually debate with us. and 
I think it will be a challenging debate.  I think why they are 
postponing the debate as long as they possibly can. 

Q.  Leuchter.  What happened to him?

A    After he wrote his affidavit for the Ernst Zundel trial in 
Canada,  He was ruined. His livelihood was as a consultant for 
American prisons on execution technology. He was the one who tested 
the electric chairs.  Not personally of course. Electric Chairs, Gas 
Chambers, and he advised the penitentiaries in the states that had his 
hardware. Every time they had an execution they would call in Fred 
Leuchter to appraise the equipment to make sure nothing went wrong. 

This is in fact how he got dragged into it.  For when Ernst Zundel in 
Canada needed an expert on gas chamber technology. They wrote a letter
to the leading penitentiaries in the United States  asking for the 
leading expert on gas technology.  The penitentiaries wrote back 
unanimously saying that Fred Leuchter of Boston   the leading expert. 
After he submitted his expertise on Auschwitz, after he carried out 
his forensic tests that had such a devastating effect on the legend. 
Rather as the tests on the shroud of Turin destroyed the authenticity 
of that document as well.  The Jewish community went to extraordinary 
and vindictive lengths to destroy him.  They wrote to every prison 
governor in the United States demanding that they no longer employ 
him. The governors clicked their heels and decided not to employ him.  
He was obliged literally out into the streets of Boston and sell 
matches for a while to keep himself and his wife.  Since then he as a 
very difficult time financially over the last few years..Done various 
things to raise money to stay afloat. It has not been easy for him. He 
is now facing prosecuting in Germany but the lawyer representing him 
in Germany a World War Two hero had to tell the assembled press and 
media that he had advised Fred leuchter not to return  as he could not 
be guaranteed a fair trial.  In view of  what happens to judges hand 
down a wrong verdict.  This was a reference to the Wolfgang Mueller 
case.  

I think this a shameful business for Germany.  I'm astonished that 
Germans don't recognize this.  I'm talking about German residents. The 
residents within Germany.  Their inside a fish tank so to speak. They 
cant tell where the smell is coming from.  But it coming from 
themselves.  
     Fred Leuchter.  I don't know what has happened to him now.  I 
think he is keeping a very low profile. I don't blame him.  

Q    Some right wing groups have embraced your analysis. It seems that 
this agenda is more than just searching for historical accuracy.  What 
I am concerned about is if you feel that you've been used by these 
right wing groups or do you embrace that philosophy as well.  Use his 
to expand that philosophy as well?

A    That is a very interesting question of course and I thank you for 
asking it. Have I been used by right wing groups?  Quite possibly I 
have.  From time to time I think they have seen me riding up over the 
horizon on the white horse. And said this is useful we can use him to 
break the ranks of our enemies.  I freely admit that.  I am not 
corrupt in the slightest sense.  I've not had to waver from my 
convictions in one degree.  From the course I would have taken if 
these right wing groups as you call them, hadn't been there.  I don't 
speak only to or on behalf of the right wing groups I speak to any 
group which will invite me and give me a platform to address them.  If 
it fits in with my itinerary and my curriculum.  I agree it is very 
difficult to keep on an even keel.  I find myself day after day 
forcing myself to remain objective.  When a journalist ora radio 
commentator from New Zealand somewhere flings at me, "Mr. Irving, are 
you an anti semite"?  I find it very difficult indeed to keep my 
temper, in view of what I've had to go through at the hands of the 
Jewish community for six years now.  When I say to myself objectively 
I would be entitled to be an anti-semite Because the Jewish communist 
has done these things as Jews. and I shouldn't be entitled to 
criticize them as Jews?  
     But I try not to do it. I realize this would be wrong. But I 
think there is a lot of truth now days in this modern saying. It is 
not just a witticism.  In the old days.  an anti-semite was someone 
who didn't like the Jews.  Now it someone the Jews don't like.  But 
havening said that I go out of my way to keep my ties to the Jewish 
community.  I've got lots of contacts with Jewish historians and 
professors around the world it would be invidious to mention their 
names. On an individual level I find them quite easy to remain  on 
cordial terms.  But it like I say about the American people as a 
whole.  I find the Americans quite likeable as individuals. I like 
being among them  But it is when they begin to form governments and 
armies I begin to mistrust them.  So it is with the Jews too I am 
afraid.  As individuals they are perfectly neighbors. But when  they 
begin forming armies, congresses and centers and committees, that is 
when they become odious and obnoxious. 

Q    Comment on the feud between the Spotlight and the IHR?

A    Yes, I want to explain to those who are not familiar with the 
feud.  The IHR , The Institute For Historical Review, is one of the 
leading revisionist think tanks, I suppose you would call it in modern 
jargon.  Which operates from Los Angeles, used to be quite a seedy 
operation. The IHR was run by people who I would not like to be seen 
drinking in an Irish pub.  It's now been taken over in the past few 
years by people who are at least on a par with the lower echelons of 
the established historical establishment.  People trying very hard to 
do an  honest job.  But also trying to think independently and 
differently.  I have to admit that some of them, do it because they 
don't like the Jews.  They see revisionism as  a vehicle in which to 
express their  anti-semitic feelings. To be perfectly I do see this in 
some of the people who hang out with the  IHR.  

The IHR was a corporation whose parent corporation was a body called 
The Legion For The Survival  of Freedom.  Which was set up in some 
mysterious way in Texas, as DBA.  Doing Business as.  As a Texas 
corporation.  It was eventually acquired by Willis Carto.  Who runs a 
right wing newspaper in this country called "The Spotlight" from 
Washington. He actually lives in California now.  I know all these 
people and I am a personal friend.  Obviously i recognize faults and 
foibles in all of them. And they probably see faults and foibles in 
me.  But I try to keep neutral in this dispute because an unfortunate 
incident happened about 5 or 10 years ago.  The niece of Thomas Alva 
Edison, a multimillionaire i her own right, decided to leave her 
fortune of 55 million dollars to the IHR.  The IHR never found out 
about it.  Because the money went to the man who negotiated this 
particular legacy Willis Carto.  Willis Carto decided he was entitled 
to allot the money to any project he saw fit.  But first he had to get 
the money and he had to litigate the money for about  8 years in 
Switzerland, where the niece of Alva Edison had lived.  In the 
meantime there was a certain neighbor that had acquired a title to 
parts of her assets.  There was a settlement whereby the Legion for 
the Survival of Freedom was to get 45%.  This neighbor got 55%.  The 
lawyers of course got the bulk of the money anyway.  About $20,000,000 
remained to be split up.  So Willis Carto and the Legion for the 
survival of Freedom got 45% of $20,000,000.  The IHR was very indigent 
indeed when they found out about it this last year.  They asked.  
"What happened to the money"?  That's basically what it is all about.  
Money is the root of all evil.  I've told the IHR.  For gods sake 
forget the money.  You're doing the cause no good. Turn your back on 
the money.  It's gone.  You're doing no good employing lawyers at all 
to find none existent millions. They've gone.  He's used them on other 
causes.  I said to Willis Carto.  "You should be ashamed of your 
self". They all need their heads banged together.  Unfortunately.  I'm 
trying not to get dragged into it myself.  They're trying to drag me 
into it.  Asking for endorsements. It is becoming increasingly 
difficult. You asked for a frank answer and I think a lot of people 
would  be interested it.  
     It's harmed the revisionist cause immensely.  It has caused great 
comfort to our enemies.  You didn't expect an answer of that fullness 
did you?
     
Q     Was every Jew arrested and property confiscated in Germany?

A    Good Lord no. Their property wasn't confiscated but after the 
Night of Broken Glass in November 1938, Hermann Goering and the German 
cabinet imposed a 1 billion rdm fine on the Jewish community 
collectively.  For the murder of the German diplomat in Paris by a 
deranged Jewish youth.  Which lead to that particular outrage.  Within 
the framework of that particular fine Jews who tried to immigrate 
abroad from November 1938 onwards found their assets seized by the 
Reich and withheld as a part of that fine.  So that kind of imposition 
was imposed.  But I say.  "Frankly so what."  That's precisely what 
the Israelis did to the Palestinians.  They used precisely the same 
mechanics in the late 1940's in Palestine.  So my heart doesn't bleed 
for one or the other.  As for all being arrested is not true.  A large 
number of Jews remained at large in Germany throughout the war.  There 
were 40,000 at large in Berlin until the end of the war.  Which caused 
Dr. Gobbles the gaulieter of Berlin  extreme discomfort because he 
kept writing in his diary that he was nervous that one of these Jews 
who had quote nothing to loose might take it upon himself to put  a 
bullet into him.  There were very large numbers of them living.  Or 
even living in concealment.  You have to realize there were a lot of 
Jews in Germany was privileged.  If a Jew married a non-Jew and the 
marriage was not dissolved the whole family was then spared. from 
expulsion or deportation, or the holocaust or what ever it was.  They 
were spared because they became an exempt family.  
     This caused Dr. Gobbles great anguish.  Also if one member of the 
family was working in the munitions industry up to about 1943 they 
were also exempt.  But increasingly from 1943 on they were moved out 
of the munitions industry.  So this exemption no longer applied.  
There was no blanket arresting of Jews. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
                David Irving Part 7
    You gave an interview once to a newspaper in  which you said in 
about 10 years there would not be an Israel.

A    I gave an interview to The Jewish Chronicle  in Jan 1992 when  
they came to ask me about my views on the Holocaust.  Which they then 
published on the front page.  This is the English Jewish weekly 
newspaper right wing people in England read. It is the only source of 
news about the right wing. The Jewish Chronicle had this very 
extensive interview with me.  They asked my views and I said, "the 
reason why the state of Israel is so keen to keep the Holocaust legend 
alive because it is of vital interest to the state of Israel.  If the 
Holocaust legend withers.  If the battleship auschwitz sinks and the 
Holocaust legend withers away,  The American taxpayers is going to 
stop giving up 3 billion dollars a year.  The German taxpayer will 
stop paying 800 million a year to the state of Israel, 4 Billion 
between the two of them.  On which the entire economy of the state of 
Israel depends.  Without this 4 billion dollars a year the economy is
3 billion dollars  in the red.  Well, they could last for a year or 
two running a deficit like that but not 10 years.  So 10 years after 
the collapse of the holocaust legend the state of Israel will cease to 
exist.  It's as simple as that.  It will become such an unpleasant 
place to live they will all come flooding back. They took this 
seriously enough that they printed it  on the front page of the main 
Jewish newspaper in England.  They had  lively correspondence in the 
correspondence for several weeks after that.  In which several people 
said I was probably right.  That's basically what it is all about.  It 
is not just about Mrs.  Altman in Australia getting her compensation.  
It's about the continuation about the state of Israel.  

Q    What do you consider a ball park figure of Jewish deaths in WW2.

A    The six million I Think you are referring to I think is an 
exaggeration by a factor of ten. Scientists would call an order of 
magnitude.  I think the Jewish community themselves accept the 6 
million is a fictitious figure. They've just taken the figure and done 
what Dr. Gobbles would have done.  They keep repeating the figure 
again and again. Even though they've stricken 3 million off the 
Auschwitz figure alone.  They've reduced the figure in Auschwitz from 
4 million to allegedly one million the figure is still magically 6 
million.  That hasn't gone down by 3 million.  They've realized the 
importance of sticking to the magical 6 million. Keep hammering away 
at it as Dr. Gobbles would have done.  I think that the actual figure 
is about one tenth that.  I have reasons for saying that. If you read 
the reports of the execution squads who operated on the eastern front,  
It's quite plain,  and this was brought out in the trial of von 
Manstein by the British at Hamburg at the end of world war 2.  That 
these figures are completely impossible.  that when they claim to have 
killed a hundred thousand, or two hundred thousand people in a week 
this is quite impossible.  Because the unit claiming to have carried 
out this exterminations or shootings or massacres consisted of a unit 
of 13 men with three two and a half ton trucks.  This kind of clever 
collateral investigation proving the impossibility of these 
statistics.  Rather like the coal figure.  The coke supply to the 
crematories.  So you can do these checks.  So you come to a conclusion 
there is a factor of ten involved.  
     But I would not say ONLY 600,000 died.  I would never use the 
term only.  It's still a crime.  There can be no question of that.

Q    I've heard there has been 4,300,000 Jewish people apply for 
reparations from Germany. Have you investigated that figure?

A    That is true.  That figure is of the correct order of magnitude.  
That gives food for thought.  If all these people came to be survivors 
that doesn't leave many from the total of Jews who lived in Germany 
who could have perished.  It certainly gives food for thought. I think 
this might be one reason why the German government is keeping its 
cards close to its chest.  It doesn't want to be embarrassed further.  

Q     Why wont they debate?  Are they biding their time using their 
vast resources to cover up their past?

A    Thee are in a state of great embarrassment.  Because we know the 
corner they have been driven into? The television companies who want 
to run programs on this have contacted the Holocaust Museum in 
Washington and have pleaded for information with which to counter the 
Revisionists.  The Holocaust in Washington has had to reply in FAXs 
and messages  which we've seen. Quite frankly there is no evidence we 
are wrong.  They have no evidence to back up their own case.  Their 
only tactic at the present is what they are doing. Their tactics are 
absolutely correct.  To refuse to debate at all.  Because the moment 
they debate they reveal the weakness of their arguments.  That is why 
they can't do it.  When they finally do it will be an intellectually 
challenging debate because it will reveal what methods they use. At 
present it is just  smear.  They call us neo-Nazis, they call us 
fascists, they call us anti-semites, they call us holocaust deniers, 
But those aren't arguments. Those are just childish name calling.  

Q    Why did Rudolph Hoess confess?

A    Rudolph Hoess, the commandant of Auschwitz, when he was later 
taken to Nurnberg to testify in the trial. He sat in a car together 
with Morris von Schermeister.  Who was a press attache in the 
propaganda ministry. Schermeister said afterwards.  He wrote an 
affidavit, saying that Hoess told him when he asked Hoess why he had 
made these statements.  Hoess said.  "If you put up with what I had to 
put up with in the last few weeks you too would have been prepared to 
sign any document they put in front of you".  
     It's noteworthy to see the confession  he was required to sign 
was written in English which was a language which he had never used 
and never spoken.  If you go look into the Nurnberg archive.  It's 
written in english.  The one he actually signed.  Including the 
statement, "I fully understand the above document I am signing".  But 
of course he didn't understand either.  
     It's one advantage of being notorious.  This man in Argentina 
came up to me and gave me two of the Eichmann. papers.  But a man came 
up to me in London and gave me a book which he had bought in a flee 
market in Germany. Which was Adolph Eichmann's copy of the Hoess 
memories.  Rudolph Hoess in Polish captivity wrote a very long 
confession.  Three hundred pages.  Published by the Institute of 
History in Munich.  Eichmann. got a copy of this book when in 
Argentina.  He extensively made comments in the margins.  Like. this 
is total lies.  Absolute crap.  I never spoke to Hoess at all.  How 
can Hoess write that I  gave him orders?  I had no way of giving Hoess 
orders, he was not my subordinate. 
     It is very interesting that Eichmann himself says Hoess is 
writing rubbish.  Why Hoess did it is interesting.  It's a 
psychiatrist  problem,  I can only give a parallel here.  The 
Hungarian Minister of the Interior, Ladner Rike,who was hung by his 
fellow communists in 1949.  He made a confession too. He went in the 
witness stand, in Bydapest in Hungary and he confessed to being an 
American agent. An American spy.  His confession began something like 
"I Ladner Rike former Minister of the Interior of the Hungarian 
Peoples republic born May  13, 1003. and so on and so on.  But May 13 
was not his birthday.  It was his wedding anniversary.  So he slipped 
in there just as a little clue to read years later that the whole 
thing was phoney.  Some times I think Hoess was doing the same.  
Giving figures which were totally phoney.  Totally impossible.  Clue 
to readers he was being tortured.  

Q    Ascertain the number of Jews in Europe by population statistics.

A    I'm very suspicious with that kind of statistics.  I don't think 
the  population censuses that existed in Europe for the war and during 
the war were sufficiently precise to be able to make meaningful 
calculations.  Population movements before the war and during the war, 
were so vast and the shifting of frontiers, were so significant..And 
you have basic problems of who is a Jew.  Even the Jews cant decide 
who is a Jew.  Who is a Polish Jew.  Who is a Russian Jew? What 
happened in 1939 when Russia invaded Poland?  Did they become Russian 
jews.  Did they  remain Polish Jews?  Did the Poles deport the Jews 
over the demarcation line? All these questions to my mind make these 
statistics meaningless. I don't think you can do that kind analysis on 
those kinds of figures.  

Q.   Can you give us a preview of coming attractions of what you have 
planned?

A.   I never intended to be a writer.  I stumbled into it.  I went to
Germany as a steel worker, When I was a steel worder I met a man who 
had been in the raid on Dresden.  He told me about this air raid on 
Dresden. At that time I was 21 years old. and I had never heard of 
this air raid on Dresden and I decided to write a book about it. When 
That book became a best seller I remained an author for the rest of my 
life.  And I lived  happily ever after until quite recently.  

Q    What about Luftl.

A.   Luftl was an Austrian engineer.  The president of the Austrian  
Chamber of Engineers.  Who two years ago foolishly announced that he 
too now believed that the gas chamber legend was completely impossible 
from an engineering point view. And immediately there was an alleged 
outcry from all 2600 Austrian Engineers. Who simultaneously demanded 
he resign.  So he did the decent thing and stepped down. but he has 
published several interesting documents since then and has not stepped 
down form his opinion.  I take this as an example that there are a lot 
of ordinarily intelligent people who are beginning top think for 
themselves n Germany and Austria.  In spite of or because of the 
persecution going on in those two countries.  

Thank you ladies and gentlemen.


Article 3292 of alt.politics.nationalism.white:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Documented proof that Karl Mamer is a LIAR and advocated illegial harrassment
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 03:51:50 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 227
Message-ID: <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net>
References: <44crtn$78e@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3292 alt.politics.white-power:4571 alt.revisionism:9611 ont.general:22095

{Marc Lemire wrote:}
>> So Mr. Mamer, are you still running around the Internet asking people to 
>> Harrass me and my BBS?
>
>> That is against Canadian Law and I will not stand for idle threats by 
people 
>> like you.
{Karl Mamer writes}
>Care to show when I *ever* called for your BBS to be harrased? Please, if
>you've made such an accusation please post the message with the appropriate 
>message id. I'm waiting...

I can't believe you actually said that.  And how could you ever expect to get 
away with a subject line of "Marc Lemire on bus fumes".

Here is all the proof that I have on Mr. Mamer inciting people to harrass my 
BBS and another Toronto area BBS.

All this material is also availible on my BBS, if you want to read it over and 
over again.     The number (416) 462-3327, (416) 465-4767


The following shows Mr. Mamers lie.  

I quote Mr. Mamer from this message "Care to show when I *ever* called for 
your BBS to be harrased?"

Please refer to the fourth paragraph where he states this. 

"Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda."


In the beginning of this paragraph, he claims to be calling my BBS constantly. 
That in it self is a complete lie.  Mr. Mamer has never done this and as of 
Sept, 27, 1995 at 11:38PM he has still not tried.

And as for the part of where he asks me, to point out where he has ever 
advocated for my BBS to be harrassed.

For this lie please refer to the last sentences of the above paragraph, where 
he states quite openly "If we can get several other people doing the same 
thing practically nobody will ever be able to get through to see this Hate 
propaganda."

Here is the original message post by Mr. Mamer to Alt.discrimination
START______________________________________________________________________

FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 7:46am                     MSG:  11489
FROM:    KARLM@IO.ORG
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3034 alt.discrimination:37163
Path: portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!herboid!whome!infoshare!iaw.on.ca!torn
howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc
vanbc.wimsey.com!io.org!nobody
From: karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer)
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 26 Aug 1995 19:38:17 -0400
Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
Lines: 19
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: twitch.io.org

In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
police don't think it is a serious problem.

Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run by
a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416) 462-3327
and is run by a Mark Lemire.

Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda.
-- END OF MESSAGE --

He is a reply to that by one of the users of the Internet asking Mr. Mamer to 
use legal avenues to try to shut down BBS's like mine.

As of Sept 27, 1995 at 11:42 PM I have not had one single complaint from the 
ADL reguarding my BBS.

START_____________________________________________________
FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 6:54pm                     MSG:  11506
FROM:    PHILK@IX.NETCOM.COM
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3037 alt.discrimination:37182
Path: 
portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!reptiles.org!pagesat.net!news.uoregon.edu
tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: philk@ix.netcom.com (Philip Kirschner )
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 27 Aug 1995 01:58:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <41ojg5$e3e@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nyc9-28.ix.netcom.com

In <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer) writes:
>
>In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
>messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
>police don't think it is a serious problem.

>Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

>On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run
>by a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416)
>462-3327 and is run by a Mark Lemire.
>Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
>using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program
>to keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset
>time so that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect
>because I set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up
>the BBSs for probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am
>dialing both of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get
>several other people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever
>be able to get through to see this Hate propaganda.


Karl,


Do you wish to really make a difference in shuting that group down, or
at least kept an eye on. Call the anti-defemation leauge of Bani Brith
which is headquartered in New York City.

They have strong contacts in canada that can either take them down,
or have them arrested. If they are distributing dangerous information
they may be able to be dealt with legally under CANADA law. Also,
another real way to cause them grief is to contact the local media and
get them interested in doing a story on hate. CNN is another source you
can try.

Thank you
Philip B. Kirschner
-- END OF MESSAGE --

Here is message from one of the users of Digital Freedom BBS.  D.F. is the BBS 
that Mr. Mamers 'crank calls all the time' to shut down my 'nazi propaganda 
mmachine'  


START________________________________________________________
Date: 09-01-95 (04:43)              Number: 971 of 1146 (Refer# 959)
  To: CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS
From: DAVID
Subj: RE: MESSAGES CONCERNING D
Read: 09-05-95 (03:39)              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: General (1)                Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) HAS REPLIES


On 30 Aug 95 07:41pm, CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS wrote to ALL:

 CS> using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
 CS> keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
 CS> that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
 CS> set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
 CS> probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both

Christopher:

I sincerely hope you are looking into legal action against Mr. Mamer!
He is afterall publicly admitting (bragging!) to harassing you, and
encouraging others to do the same.

David
 * Silver Xpress V4.01 CA-23408

<<<>>>

END MESSAGE-----------------------------------------------------


As we have demonstrated, Mr. Mamers is a terrible liar and also likes to 
advocate illegial activities against me and my BBS.



Marc Lemire
DIGITAL FREEDOM SYSOP



Article 4571 of alt.politics.white-power:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Documented proof that Karl Mamer is a LIAR and advocated illegial harrassment
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 03:51:50 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 227
Message-ID: <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net>
References: <44crtn$78e@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3292 alt.politics.white-power:4571 alt.revisionism:9611 ont.general:22095

{Marc Lemire wrote:}
>> So Mr. Mamer, are you still running around the Internet asking people to 
>> Harrass me and my BBS?
>
>> That is against Canadian Law and I will not stand for idle threats by 
people 
>> like you.
{Karl Mamer writes}
>Care to show when I *ever* called for your BBS to be harrased? Please, if
>you've made such an accusation please post the message with the appropriate 
>message id. I'm waiting...

I can't believe you actually said that.  And how could you ever expect to get 
away with a subject line of "Marc Lemire on bus fumes".

Here is all the proof that I have on Mr. Mamer inciting people to harrass my 
BBS and another Toronto area BBS.

All this material is also availible on my BBS, if you want to read it over and 
over again.     The number (416) 462-3327, (416) 465-4767


The following shows Mr. Mamers lie.  

I quote Mr. Mamer from this message "Care to show when I *ever* called for 
your BBS to be harrased?"

Please refer to the fourth paragraph where he states this. 

"Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda."


In the beginning of this paragraph, he claims to be calling my BBS constantly. 
That in it self is a complete lie.  Mr. Mamer has never done this and as of 
Sept, 27, 1995 at 11:38PM he has still not tried.

And as for the part of where he asks me, to point out where he has ever 
advocated for my BBS to be harrassed.

For this lie please refer to the last sentences of the above paragraph, where 
he states quite openly "If we can get several other people doing the same 
thing practically nobody will ever be able to get through to see this Hate 
propaganda."

Here is the original message post by Mr. Mamer to Alt.discrimination
START______________________________________________________________________

FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 7:46am                     MSG:  11489
FROM:    KARLM@IO.ORG
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3034 alt.discrimination:37163
Path: portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!herboid!whome!infoshare!iaw.on.ca!torn
howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc
vanbc.wimsey.com!io.org!nobody
From: karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer)
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 26 Aug 1995 19:38:17 -0400
Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
Lines: 19
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: twitch.io.org

In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
police don't think it is a serious problem.

Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run by
a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416) 462-3327
and is run by a Mark Lemire.

Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda.
-- END OF MESSAGE --

He is a reply to that by one of the users of the Internet asking Mr. Mamer to 
use legal avenues to try to shut down BBS's like mine.

As of Sept 27, 1995 at 11:42 PM I have not had one single complaint from the 
ADL reguarding my BBS.

START_____________________________________________________
FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 6:54pm                     MSG:  11506
FROM:    PHILK@IX.NETCOM.COM
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3037 alt.discrimination:37182
Path: 
portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!reptiles.org!pagesat.net!news.uoregon.edu
tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: philk@ix.netcom.com (Philip Kirschner )
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 27 Aug 1995 01:58:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <41ojg5$e3e@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nyc9-28.ix.netcom.com

In <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer) writes:
>
>In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
>messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
>police don't think it is a serious problem.

>Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

>On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run
>by a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416)
>462-3327 and is run by a Mark Lemire.
>Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
>using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program
>to keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset
>time so that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect
>because I set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up
>the BBSs for probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am
>dialing both of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get
>several other people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever
>be able to get through to see this Hate propaganda.


Karl,


Do you wish to really make a difference in shuting that group down, or
at least kept an eye on. Call the anti-defemation leauge of Bani Brith
which is headquartered in New York City.

They have strong contacts in canada that can either take them down,
or have them arrested. If they are distributing dangerous information
they may be able to be dealt with legally under CANADA law. Also,
another real way to cause them grief is to contact the local media and
get them interested in doing a story on hate. CNN is another source you
can try.

Thank you
Philip B. Kirschner
-- END OF MESSAGE --

Here is message from one of the users of Digital Freedom BBS.  D.F. is the BBS 
that Mr. Mamers 'crank calls all the time' to shut down my 'nazi propaganda 
mmachine'  


START________________________________________________________
Date: 09-01-95 (04:43)              Number: 971 of 1146 (Refer# 959)
  To: CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS
From: DAVID
Subj: RE: MESSAGES CONCERNING D
Read: 09-05-95 (03:39)              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: General (1)                Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) HAS REPLIES


On 30 Aug 95 07:41pm, CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS wrote to ALL:

 CS> using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
 CS> keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
 CS> that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
 CS> set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
 CS> probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both

Christopher:

I sincerely hope you are looking into legal action against Mr. Mamer!
He is afterall publicly admitting (bragging!) to harassing you, and
encouraging others to do the same.

David
 * Silver Xpress V4.01 CA-23408

<<<>>>

END MESSAGE-----------------------------------------------------


As we have demonstrated, Mr. Mamers is a terrible liar and also likes to 
advocate illegial activities against me and my BBS.



Marc Lemire
DIGITAL FREEDOM SYSOP



Article 9611 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Documented proof that Karl Mamer is a LIAR and advocated illegial harrassment
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 03:51:50 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 227
Message-ID: <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net>
References: <44crtn$78e@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3292 alt.politics.white-power:4571 alt.revisionism:9611 ont.general:22095

{Marc Lemire wrote:}
>> So Mr. Mamer, are you still running around the Internet asking people to 
>> Harrass me and my BBS?
>
>> That is against Canadian Law and I will not stand for idle threats by 
people 
>> like you.
{Karl Mamer writes}
>Care to show when I *ever* called for your BBS to be harrased? Please, if
>you've made such an accusation please post the message with the appropriate 
>message id. I'm waiting...

I can't believe you actually said that.  And how could you ever expect to get 
away with a subject line of "Marc Lemire on bus fumes".

Here is all the proof that I have on Mr. Mamer inciting people to harrass my 
BBS and another Toronto area BBS.

All this material is also availible on my BBS, if you want to read it over and 
over again.     The number (416) 462-3327, (416) 465-4767


The following shows Mr. Mamers lie.  

I quote Mr. Mamer from this message "Care to show when I *ever* called for 
your BBS to be harrased?"

Please refer to the fourth paragraph where he states this. 

"Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda."


In the beginning of this paragraph, he claims to be calling my BBS constantly. 
That in it self is a complete lie.  Mr. Mamer has never done this and as of 
Sept, 27, 1995 at 11:38PM he has still not tried.

And as for the part of where he asks me, to point out where he has ever 
advocated for my BBS to be harrassed.

For this lie please refer to the last sentences of the above paragraph, where 
he states quite openly "If we can get several other people doing the same 
thing practically nobody will ever be able to get through to see this Hate 
propaganda."

Here is the original message post by Mr. Mamer to Alt.discrimination
START______________________________________________________________________

FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 7:46am                     MSG:  11489
FROM:    KARLM@IO.ORG
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3034 alt.discrimination:37163
Path: portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!herboid!whome!infoshare!iaw.on.ca!torn
howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc
vanbc.wimsey.com!io.org!nobody
From: karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer)
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 26 Aug 1995 19:38:17 -0400
Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
Lines: 19
Distribution: na
Message-ID: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: twitch.io.org

In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
police don't think it is a serious problem.

Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run by
a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416) 462-3327
and is run by a Mark Lemire.

Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both
of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get several other
people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever be able to get
through to see this Hate propaganda.
-- END OF MESSAGE --

He is a reply to that by one of the users of the Internet asking Mr. Mamer to 
use legal avenues to try to shut down BBS's like mine.

As of Sept 27, 1995 at 11:42 PM I have not had one single complaint from the 
ADL reguarding my BBS.

START_____________________________________________________
FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
DATE:    Aug-27-95 6:54pm                     MSG:  11506
FROM:    PHILK@IX.NETCOM.COM
TO:      ALL
SUBJECT: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs

Xref: portnoy can.motss:3037 alt.discrimination:37182
Path: 
portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!reptiles.org!pagesat.net!news.uoregon.edu
tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netnews
From: philk@ix.netcom.com (Philip Kirschner )
Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
Subject: Re: Shut Down Hate BBSs
Date: 27 Aug 1995 01:58:29 GMT
Organization: Netcom
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <41ojg5$e3e@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
References: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ix-nyc9-28.ix.netcom.com

In <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org> karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer) writes:
>
>In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
>messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
>police don't think it is a serious problem.

>Both of these BBSs advertise often on alt.politics.white-power

>On is called the Politically Incorrect BBS (416) 467-4975 and is run
>by a Chris Saunder.  The other one is called Digital Freedom (416)
>462-3327 and is run by a Mark Lemire.
>Since the police don't care about them maybe we can all shut them down
>using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program
>to keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset
>time so that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect
>because I set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up
>the BBSs for probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am
>dialing both of these BBSs, first one then the other.  If we can get
>several other people doing the same thing practically nobody will ever
>be able to get through to see this Hate propaganda.


Karl,


Do you wish to really make a difference in shuting that group down, or
at least kept an eye on. Call the anti-defemation leauge of Bani Brith
which is headquartered in New York City.

They have strong contacts in canada that can either take them down,
or have them arrested. If they are distributing dangerous information
they may be able to be dealt with legally under CANADA law. Also,
another real way to cause them grief is to contact the local media and
get them interested in doing a story on hate. CNN is another source you
can try.

Thank you
Philip B. Kirschner
-- END OF MESSAGE --

Here is message from one of the users of Digital Freedom BBS.  D.F. is the BBS 
that Mr. Mamers 'crank calls all the time' to shut down my 'nazi propaganda 
mmachine'  


START________________________________________________________
Date: 09-01-95 (04:43)              Number: 971 of 1146 (Refer# 959)
  To: CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS
From: DAVID
Subj: RE: MESSAGES CONCERNING D
Read: 09-05-95 (03:39)              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE
Conf: General (1)                Read Type: TEXT SCAN (+) HAS REPLIES


On 30 Aug 95 07:41pm, CHRISTOPHER SAUNDERS wrote to ALL:

 CS> using the method I have been trying.  I get my communications program to
 CS> keep on dialing them day and night but to hang up after a preset time so
 CS> that the modem answers but does not get a chance to connect because I
 CS> set the program to run the modem at 300 baud.  This ties up the BBSs for
 CS> probably 1/3 of the time which is a good ratio since I am dialing both

Christopher:

I sincerely hope you are looking into legal action against Mr. Mamer!
He is afterall publicly admitting (bragging!) to harassing you, and
encouraging others to do the same.

David
 * Silver Xpress V4.01 CA-23408

<<<>>>

END MESSAGE-----------------------------------------------------


As we have demonstrated, Mr. Mamers is a terrible liar and also likes to 
advocate illegial activities against me and my BBS.



Marc Lemire
DIGITAL FREEDOM SYSOP


Article 9613 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.jewish
Subject: David Irving on Enemy's of true history Part 2 of 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 04:11:50 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 664
Message-ID: <44d74e$pka@inforamp.net>
References:  <444c2k$g74@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> <444r63$h3s@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts5-07.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:9613 soc.culture.jewish:7593

  I've now assembled enough material, world wide from these various  court 
ordered discloser of government files, that I am able now to  write  pretty 
impressive booklet that will come out in a few weeks  time called Vendetta 
giving the whole inside story of this world wide  attempt to silence us. But 
of course they failed and this is the  glorious thing. We are winning the 
battle. I said two years ago that  the fight  would only  last two years. I 
underestimated their  tenacity. I think probably another year from now 
eventually our   enemy will give up this particular battle. The signs are 
clearly  there. What they're doing now are measures of desperation. If you  
followed the scene in Germany at all, extraordinary things are  happening. You 
would imagine Germany would be the bastion of the free  world after its 
experiences of two world wars and the Third Reich and  Hitler, the Nazis and 
all the rest.         But in fact nothing has changed in  Germany. In my 
opinion.  Certainly not in the legal system, Certainly not since the end  of 
the first  World War. The legal system is unchanged. They still click their  
heels and obey orders from above. The only thing missing now  is they don't 
have to wear the arm bands any more. There has been some  graphic 
demonstrations of this in the last few weeks.         I've witnessed a lot of 
hardships in Germany I must say. Inflicted  not on me but on those who 
followed me in one way or another. When I was  fined in January of last year 
22,000 dollars, A Nurnberg school  teacher wrote a letter to a Bavarian 
television station, to protest  about the tone of their news bulletins. Which 
they had gleefully  announced the fine imposed on me. The Bavarian television 
station was  good enough and decent enough to pass his letter on to Bavarian  
minister of culture who is their direct superior in the education  system. And 
he was dismissed. Man of my age, totally without a  future now, no pension, no 
job no livelihood. Purely because he  had  written a letter of protest to a 
television station.          Quite a common occurrence. You wonder why they 
take photographs of  you when you come in here? In Germany it has become 
systematic. A school  teacher sitting in the front row of one of my audiences, 
three or  four years ago, somewhere near Hanover. Her face appeared on the  
evening Television bulletin and she was dismissed the next day. She  only 
attended out of curiosity. Wanted to see what I had to say. She  was dismissed 
for sitting in an audience. The Gunther Deckert case is  the most pregnant 
example of the way Germany is drifting. A Jewish  historian in New Zealand of 
whom I'm most friendly who has  investigated this case world wide, now has 
written in a doctoral  dissertation that Germany's record in the human rights 
league is a  miserable one indeed.  The Deckert Case I think is the most 
appalling  example.          Gunther Deckert a school teacher who many years 
ago already lost his  job a because of his opinions, imagine that. Imagine 
that happening  in the United States. Imagine a school teacher being fired for 
his  opinions. Happens in Canada of course, but not yet in the United  
States.Not officially anyway. Gunther Deckert officially dismissed in  Germany 
because having the wrong opinions as a school teacher. He  became the leader 
of the right wing Nationalist Party in Germany, a  constitutional party. Like 
many of the active parties in Germany. Not  illegal in any way. And of course 
as such an anathema for the liberal  German media. He translated the lecture 
delivered by Fred Leuchter in  Mannheim in November  1991.         Fred 
Leuchter as nearly all of you know is the American consultant on  American gas 
chambers technology who was sent to Auschwitz to investigate the  so called 
gas chambers by Ernst Zundel. Fred Leuchter is the world expert on  gas 
chambers. And on gassing human beings. He brought back 30 samples from  the 
brick work of the Auschwitz gas  chambers. And subjected these holy relics to 
forensic test in  laboratories in the Unites States. With the results you all 
know that  there was no trace of cyanide gas what so ever from in these 
samples.         Fred Leuchter has had his life and career ruined by the 
traditional  enemy of the truth. That is not the point here. In November 1991 
Fred  Leuchter was lecturing in Mannheim, he doesn't speak German, so his  
lecture was being translated by Gunther Deckert, the school teacher I  just 
mentioned. For interpreting that lecture Gunther Deckert was  sentenced to one 
year in prison and fined $7,000. This is a democracy,  This is Germany, This 
is the way things are going in Germany now.  I  personally don't care what 
Deckert said or wrote or interpreted, I  don't think people should be 
imprisoned for expressing their opinions.  I don't think people should be 
fined colossal sums of money for  expressing their opinions as long as they 
are not inciting race hatred  or incitement to break the law.         The 
judges in Germany who heard the appeal of Gunther Deckert this  summer 
evidently agreed, because although they found no alternative  but to uphold 
the sentence, one year imposed on Deckert, they  suspended it. In their 
written judgement which they finally published,  a month  or two later, in the 
middle of August, this year, the two  judges, one who was Muller, the chairman 
of the court. said that the  reason for suspending the sentence and treating 
Deckert relatively  lenient was because he had acted as a patriot. Because he 
had done  what he did in Germany's interests and because he like many other  
Germans was being thoroughly fed up with what was being done to  Germany. By 
Israel in the sense of continually pestering them for  financial compensation. 
From the actual culprits and perpetrators of  the holocaust. From their sons 
and daughters and grandsons and  granddaughters. And the Judges said in their 
verdict, obviously they  had a certain degree of sympathy for Deckert, having 
done it for these  reasons. They understood why he had done it.        The 
result of course next day was outcry and uproar in the German  liberal news 
media. They demanded the heads of these two judges and  the German minister of 
justice.  A woman, a liberal member of the  Liberal party in Germany. She said 
found these two judges verdict  shameful, and she would expect decisions to be 
taken. Sure enough  these two judges were dismissed a few days later for 
health reasons.   They fought back and pointed out the were not ill. A few 
weeks later    they had to be given their jobs back. But it gets worse.  The  
prosecutor in that case in Germany, a man called Klein, insisted that  these 
two judges have their verdicts closely scrutinized to see if  they too could 
be prosecuted under the same laws.          What an extraordinary case. It's 
like Animal Farm. If any of you  have read Animal Farm, The prosecutor can 
say, you have handed down a  verdict, which I as a prosecutor disagree, I am 
going to look and see  if I cant have you two put in prison too. What an 
extraordinary  situation.        I think this is what finally brought the 
house down in Germany.  Because a lot of thinking people to wonder which way 
Germany was  drifting. And Germany is drifting in very odd directions now. The 
 coming elections are going to show. In very alarming directions.
But the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Germany's serious and  respected 
newspaper. I'm sure there is not a newspaper in Europe that  carries as much  
authority and weight as the Frankfurter Allgeminer  Zeitung, has finally seen 
the light of day and this is why my one  year estimate us very close to the 
mark.          The Frankfurter Allgeminer Zeitung, for the last three or four 
 months, has begun publishing editorials coming down in favor of the  
Revisionists. Suggesting that the sentences are too harsh. A few weeks  ago 
they published a half page article by professor Hans Nolte. Nolte  how has 
hitherto been a very cautious historian in Germany. Not  one to come out whole 
heatedly waving his flag on our behalf. But now  professor Hans Nolte has 
said, in this half page article, which the  newspaper published unchanged. 
That the revisionists, as he  understands them, do have a case which has to be 
answered. He himself  does not know the answer to the resvisonists.  But he 
thinks the  establishment historians should now try to cobble together some 
kind  of joint answer to the Revisionists. Because it is no longer enough to  
practical to use methods of brute force,and legal terrorism, against them to  
silence them.  That was the gist of the half page article in the  Frankfurter 
Allgemeine Zeitung.          And of course it is not what he published.  What 
he wrote.  But the  fact that the newspaper published it. They published a 
letter a few days  later from a young man called Gherman  Rudloph.  Gherman 
Rudolph  wrote this letter pointing out this and that about the revisionists  
which he is proud to be one. At the end of the letter he included the  
sentence "please don't publish the above letter if it in so doing it  is found 
that I have inadvertently broken the law". Of course the  newspaper, very 
tongue in cheek, published the letter in full  including the last sentence. 
Just to give the readers a bit of a jolt  which way Germany is going.  The 
leading newspapers of the calibre of the Frankfurter Allgemeine  Zeitung might 
turn out to have inadvertently broken the law by  publishing the readers 
letter.          What a strange state of affairs.  How exciting it is. Three 
or four  years ago Robert Faurisson the French dissident Revisionist 
historian,   who has had acid poured in his eyes. Jaw broken so badly by three 
 Jewish thugs when he was walking his dog in a park in Vichy in France.  4 
years ago so badly his jaw it had to be wired together for 6 months. They 
poured sulfuric acid in his eyes as well. Same kind of people outside  
spitting at me just now. That's the methods they use. Faurrison coined the  
phrase The Intellectual Adventure. And that is what it really is.         From 
where we stand we can see a world of innocent people. Millions.  Hundreds of 
millions innocent people who are innocently believing in a  legend.  Believing 
it to be true because they in turn had been told it  by plausible people who 
believed it in turn by people who told it to  them.         It's something 
like a religion in other words, The intellectual  adventure is that we are 
reversing this entire trend within the space  of one generation. That in a few 
years time no one  will believe  this particular legend any more. They will 
all say as I do, that  atrocities were committed. Yes hundreds of thousands 
were killed, but  there were no factories of death. All that is a blood libel 
against  the German People. Which the german government, I can not  
understand, has willfully tolerated for the last 50 years. And that  is one of 
the real mysteries should be investigated.  Why the German  Government has put 
up with it. Against its own people. Not only put up  with it, but has stamped 
out people like me. Leuchter, Faurisson,  Ernst Zundel and the rest,  Who have 
tried to challenge that legend.          Ghermann Rudolph is the most 
inspiring example  because more and more young Germans are coming around to 
our cause. Ghermann Rudolph, brilliant chemist at the Max Plank Institute, 
expert  in solid state chemistry. He was brought in the defense of one of  
these miserable trials in Germany. One of these teachers who  questioned the 
holocaust. The defense team brought in Ghermann Rudolph  in as the expert in 
solid state chemistry to prove that there should  have been some trace cyanide 
compound left in the brick work at  Auschwitz, after fifty years. He did it 
easily as a part of his  doctoral dissertation. He proved without doubt the 
brickwork in the  Auschwitz gas chambers, crematories, so called, contained 
enough iron  to create a compound called Prussian Blue. Berliner Blau. Dye  
stuff. So permanent nothing would wash it out. No wind, no rain no  tempest 
would wash out the  trace of cyanide from the brick work of  the gas chambers 
if it was there in the first place. Of course writing  that in his doctoral 
dissertation his professor said "Rudolph I think  you are in for a sticky 
ride. But I admire what you are doing."  Not  in public but in private. He 
went ahead with his dissertation and he  submitted his samples. For he too 
went to Auschwitz and carried out  the tests and  brought back the forensic 
sample. He submitted his  samples to a well known forensic laboratory in 
Germany but made the  mistake of submitting it on the stationery of the Max 
Planck Institute  of which he was an employee. Which gave the Institute the 
grounds to  fire him. Which it did.  He did the interesting thing he sued the 
 institute for wrongful dismissal in the Industrial Tribunal of  Germany. The 
Max Planck Institute of Germany which was thoroughly fed  up which had been 
done to one of its finest scientists, decided to  open all it's records in the 
process called discovery. Among its  files, was a whole treasure hoard of 
letters written to it by the  Jewish leaders of Germany. Demanding that 
Ghermann should be  dismissed. They had to bow to pressure and knuckle under 
and agree to  the dismissal of Ghermann Rudolph. Willingly, gleefully, they 
made these  letters public. Planck ends with these words when writing back to 
the head of  the Jewish committee in Berlin saying, "We have now dismissed 
Herr Rudolph  we now hope this makes you satisfied."  In exactly that tone of 
voice.   These letters were then published.          It is worth mentioning 
incidentally, the head of the Jewish committee  is Germany.  The Jewish 
Council in Germany, Ignas Bubis is a criminal  with a conviction of a 12 year 
sentence of racketeering. He didn't  serve it. He jumped bail and fled before 
he could be put in prison.   But every time around the world I hear that David 
Irving is a criminal  which is what the Jewish Committee says about me. To get 
me banned  from South Africa or some other country I reply. "I may be a 
criminal  but my crime I am proud of. My crime was telling the truth, 
Expressing  an opinion which turns out to be true. Where the head of their  
community his crime is a real crime. Sentenced to 12 years in prison."  Which 
he has yet to serve. 
We have to be tasteless about this. I am going to be tasteless about  it. It 
calls for extreme tastelessness. We cant fight back with kid  gloves. When I 
get into Australia in January, after we defeat them in  the courts next month. 
My lawyer says there is no reason to doubt we  will defeat them in the courts. 
The Australian government deliberately  changed the law in order to exclude 
me. They changed the law to  exclude people of bad character. So the 
government just has to  announce that David Irving is a bad character and they 
wont let him  in. In May they announced just that. The Australian media called 
me  when I was down in Florida, writing. The Australian media said, "Mr.  
Irving, in Parliament this afternoon the Australian minister of  immigration 
has announced that you are excluded because you are  considered a bad 
character. What is you comment on that?" I said,   It  is an unusual 
experience as an Englishman to have an Australian  politician describe me as a 
bad character. But I now know if  televisions detective Lt. Colombo were to 
criticise the cut of my  raincoat."  They also said I was a deported person 
from Canada. That  I was a person with a criminal record. I said it was an odd 
thing for 
the Australian to protest about letting someone in with a criminal  record, 
considering the whole of Australia is populated with deported  English 
criminals. They didn't like that one.         When I get to Australia in 
January I know what is going to happen.  They are going to wheel  out all the 
so called eyewitnesses. One in  particular Mrs. Altman I've clashed with her 
once or twice. She is very  convincing. They can be very convincing. Because 
they have do it so  often over the years. They've had a free run. We're going 
to meet because she  has that tattoo. I am going to say. "You have that 
tattoo,  we all  have the utmost sympathy for you but how much money have  you 
made on  it? In the last 45 years?  Can I estimate?  Quarter of a million? 
Half  million? Certainly not less. That's how much you've made from the  
German taxpayers and the American taxpayers."  Ladies and gentlemen  you're 
paying 3 billion dollars  a year to the state of Israel.   Compensation to 
people like Mrs. Altman. She'll say, "why not. I  suffered."  I'll say you 
didn't.  You survived. You are a survivor.   By definition you didn't suffer. 
 Not half as much as those who died.  Those who did die in the so called gas 
chamber, gas ovens, or cremated,  or died in the plague, or epidemics, or what 
ever in Auschwitz.  They  suffered.  You didn't. You're the one making the 
money. Explain to  me this. Why are you people have made all the money, but 
Australian  soldiers who suffered for five years in Japanese prison camps 
haven't got  a bent nickel out of it?"          I can guarantee this will 
evoke  a wave of sympathy around 16 million  Australians television viewers 
that evening. When I come out with  that extremely tasteless remark. This is 
why they don't want to let me in.  They know I am going to be tasteless about 
the whole matter. But you need  tastelessness to break the taboo. They still 
can't be tasteless. They are  still locking up people who are asking for the 
truth.          It is possible to be absolutely precise and specific about 
what  happened in Auschwitz. No question at all exists in any ones mind now.  
Even our opponents know that we are right. Our opponents have  published in a 
wonderful book by a man called John Claude Pressaic. Who  is on of our most 
dedicated enemies. By accident they have published  the total quantity of coke 
delivered to Auschwitz in the war years.          Two thousand one hundred and 
eighty eight tons of coke, were  delivered to the crematoria during the entire 
period Auschwitz was in  operation.  2188 tons. You can do the calculation on 
the back of an envelope.   35 or 40 kg per cadaver even if the crematories 
were operating at their top  efficiency.  Which they weren't during the war 
years.  You get a  quantity of 65 or 70 thousand  bodies. MAXIMUM that were 
being  cremated at Auschwitz  during the entire period. And Incidentally  that 
tallies with the capacity of the crematories in Auschwitz. We  know how many 
crematories there are. We got the design. We actually  got the design from the 
Moscow archives now of the Vulcan SS unit  that built the crematory. How many 
retorts in each crematorium. We know  what the operating capacity was. The 
Topfs company that built them kept  the most precise records, We know how many 
they could burn in a year,  in a week, in a day, in a month. Over the entire 
period that these  individual crematories were in operation. We know that they 
could have  cremated a MAXIMUM of 60 to a 100 thousand bodies.         So 
where does this 1,000,000 or 4,000,000 figure come from? Imagination that's 
all it is.  When you start examining the facts you  come again and again to 
this figure of 60 or a 100 thousand. And you  have another cross check because 
we British were breaking the codes of  the Commandment of Auschwitz. Night 
after night he was signaling to  Berlin. Oswald Pohl the SS Chief of the 
concentration camps. He was   reporting night after night the statistics. How 
many prisoners had  arrived at Auschwitz of slave laborers, how many had left 
over the  previous 24 hours, How many were on hand at midnight, and how many 
had  died during the 24 hours. How many had died from all causes.  He  breaks 
it down into 4 particular causes. How many had died from  epidemics, and 
disease, how many had been hanged, how many had been  shot. And that is all. 
The official British Historian Professor Frank  Hensley. The historian of the 
British Secret Service who reported these code  breaking intercepts in volume 
2 of the British Official History.   stated explicitly . In these intercepts 
there is no reference to  anyone being gassed.         Now of course if Prof. 
Frank Hensley Master of St Johns College in  Cambridge now. If he went to 
France and said that or if he said it in  his college in Cambridge to a French 
newspaper journalist he would be  prosecuted by the French for challenging 
something as defined by the   Nurnberg Tribunal. If he went to Germany he 
would be fined 23,000 dollars he  would be deported and banned from the German 
archives.   If he went to Canada he would be put in handcuffs thrown on the 
floor  of a van and taken to Pierson airport. This is how ludicrous it is.  
All the facts are on our side. And yet the media, Hollywood,  newspapers, the 
journalists, all belong to this tottering conspiracy  of silence against us.  
       But it is tottering I think ladies and gentlemen, It has only one  more 
year to go.  A year at most. And then finally all the journalists will  agree 
we were probably right. Not that they are going to print the  fact that we 
were right. The journalists will all then unanimously  decide they knew it all 
along. They knew it all along that the  holocaust was a myth, a legend, large 
parts of it were untrue.  That  they had known it all along so what is the 
fuss all about? Rather like  the story bars of soap nowadays. That's how 
journalists are. They  have no moral fibre, no character. I rank them somewhat 
lower than  lawyers in my social strata. When the journalists here wanted to 
speak to me  as you saw I refused to speak to them except for the gentleman 
from the  Oregonian. What can they do for us? Nothing. I'm far more interested 
in  speaking to you. You are the people here with an open mind and hearts for 
 what I have to say today. That is why I came to you all across the continent 
 during the last 24 hours to speak to you and I shall come to you again  and 
again, to report on the progress in this great intellectual   adventure.   
Thank you. 
Break----------------
After the break Irving continues with speaking of Frau Schroder, Hitler's  
secretary...
Each of my visits would produce two or three anecdotes. If I so  much  as got 
out a tram ticket and started writing down notes she would clam   up 
immediately.  I would have to be very careful.  One time at a  restaurant she 
said, "You know Herr Irving he could be very cruel".  A  H or the chief, as 
she would call him.  I don't think you are right  about the Jews. By that 
time, I was developing my notion that Hitler  probably didn't have the 
faintest idea of what was going on.  What  ever it was. She said, "I don't 
think you were right about that." So I  asked, "how do you mean"?  She said.  
I was with him on the night of  the long knives".  The night of the long 
knives was the night in 1934,   June the 13th 1934.  Which to historians is 
the night of the  Long  Knives.  When Hitler went to Bavaria and liquidated 
his opposition.  Actually had them all rounded up and arrested.  Over the next 
one or  two days they were shot.  Or murdered.  She was with him then.  She  
explained to me she was in Berlin, Hitler was in the Rhineland.  He  
telephoned her to come and meet him immediately.  Which didn't mean he  wanted 
to dictate letters. He just needed a human being he could talk  to, on this 
appalling journey he was about to take.  His first episode  of vengeance and 
murder.  "I flew over in an airplane with Reichs  Propaganda  Minister Joseph 
Gobbels to Munich.  Out to the place where  the victims of the purge were 
staying".  She talked about Hitler with  utmost admiration.  His bravery and 
courage. Going into the lions den  that night. Arresting them single handed.  
Having them taken away to  prison where they were shot, over the next 24 
hours.  Eighty four people were shot over the next two days.       She said 
that night they flew back to Berlin.  Back in Berlin I  was exhausted, he was 
exhausted.  I went down to the canteen and  ordered up vegetarian meals.  He 
and I were vegetarians.  He vanished.   Reappeared an hour later.  Stood in 
the doorway and said.  "Now I have had a bath, and I feel as clean as a new 
born babe".  What  a sentence.  She spoke that to me in 1974.  Forty years 
after she  heard it from Adolph Hitler.  She remembered it.  She knew what it 
 meant of course.  He knew he had done something dirty.  Had covered  himself 
in blood for the first time.  He had murdered all his  opponents.  He had a 
bath and now he was a clean as a new born babe  again.  
I mention this just as an indication that I persuaded these people to  talk to 
me against their own interests.  Of course she was defending  the chief most 
of the time.  But she thought  she had to tell me that  bit too.  Very 
interesting example.      Years later she was satisfied with the biography I 
wrote about  Hitler I think.  She  told me how Hitler sent her down to Munich, 
in  the last two days of his life.  Saved her life in fact.  Out of the  
bunker in Berlin. Sent her down to Bavaria to destroy all his private  papers. 
 She did that. In his desk when doing that she found a stack  of postcards on 
which he done sketches.  On one was a self portrait.   On the back he had 
sketched Eva Braun, his mistress.  Later his wife.   She gave that to me.  I 
thought I had it with me but it is out in the  car and you can understand not 
wanting to go out and get it. (With the  mob outside ed.)  An interesting 
historical exhibit.  The only Adolph  Hitler self portrait in the world.  She 
said, "Mr. Irving, I will sign  it for you to authenticate it for you so 
people will know it is an  authentic portrait of Hitler."  I said.  "Fraulein 
Schroder.  You know  who sketched and I know who sketched it and that is good 
enough for  me."  
Ok Questions?
Q     What areas do you and Professor Faurisson disagree and what has  
happened to Fred Leuchter?
Faurisson is a very prickly character.  He's French.  Faurisson  disagrees 
with me on the question of the little "holocausts".   Faurisson doesn't think 
there were any holocausts at all.  When  I say  to him "Mr. Faurisson, quite 
obviously there were shooting episodes on  the eastern front where the Nazis 
or various people working for the  Nazis, killed tens of thousands of Jews at 
a time".  He says, "you're  wrong this never happened either.  You shouldn't 
believe it.  Those  documents are fake."  I don't go along with that. I beg to 
differ with  him.  I think it is quite helpful that there are dissidents even 
among  Revisionists.  I'm immensely sorry we cant get the Jewish community to 
 debate with us. I think that they will eventually debate with us, and  I 
think it will be a challenging debate.  I think they are postponing  the 
debate as long as they possibly can. 
Q.  Leuchter.  What happened to him?
A    After he wrote his affidavit for the Ernst Zundel trial in Canada  he was 
ruined. His livelihood was as a consultant for American prisons  on execution 
technology.  He was the one who tested the electric  chairs.  Not personally 
of course.  Electric chairs, gas chambers, and  he advised the penitentiaries 
in the states that had his hardware.  Every time they had an execution they 
would call in Fred Leuchter to  appraise the equipment to make sure nothing 
went wrong. 
This is in fact how he got dragged into it.  For when Ernst Zundel in  Canada 
needed an expert on gas chamber technology, they wrote a letter  to the 
leading penitentiaries in the United States asking for the  leading expert on 
gas technology.  The penitentiaries wrote back  unanimously saying that Fred 
Leuchter of Boston was the leading  expert. After he submitted his expertise 
on Auschwitz.  After he  carried out his forensic tests that had such a 
devastating effect on  the legend. Rather as the tests on the shroud of Turin 
destroyed the  authenticity of that document as well.  The Jewish community 
went to  extraordinary and vindictive lengths to destroy him.  They wrote to  
every prison governor in the United States demanding that they no  longer 
employ him. The governors clicked their heels and decided not  to employ him. 
 He went literally out into the streets of Boston and  sell matches for a 
while to keep himself and his wife.  Since then he  has a very difficult time, 
financially, over the last few years. Done  various things to raise money to 
stay afloat. It has not been easy for  him.  He is now facing prosecution in 
Germany.  But the lawyer  representing him in Germany, a World War Two hero, 
had to tell the  assembled press and media that he had advised Fred leuchter 
not to  return.  As he could not be guaranteed a fair trial.  In view of  what 
 happens to judges who hand down a wrong verdict.  This was a reference  to 
the Wolfgang Mueller case.  
I think this a shameful business for Germany.  I'm astonished that  Germans 
don't recognize this.  I'm talking about German residents. The  residents 
within Germany.  They're inside a fish tank. So to speak.  They cant tell 
where the smell is coming from.  But it coming from  themselves.       Fred 
Leuchter.  I don't know what has happened to him now.  I  think he is keeping 
a very low profile. I don't blame him.  
Q    Some right wing groups have embraced your analysis. It seems that  this 
agenda is more than just searching for historical accuracy.  What  I am 
concerned about is if you feel that you've been used by these  right wing 
groups or do you embrace that philosophy as well?
A    That is a very interesting question of course and I thank you for  asking 
it. Have I been used by right wing groups?  Quite possibly I  have.  From time 
to time I think they have seen me riding up over the  horizon on the white 
horse. And said this is useful, we can use him to  break the ranks of our 
enemies.  I freely admit that.  I am not  corrupt in the slightest sense.  
I've not had to waver from my  convictions in one degree.  From the course I 
would have taken if  these right wing groups as you call them, hadn't been 
there.  I don't  speak only to or on behalf of the right wing groups.  I speak 
to any  group which will invite me and give me a platform to address them.  If 
 it fits in with my itinerary and my curriculum.  I agree it is very  
difficult to keep on an even keel.  I find myself day after day  forcing 
myself to remain objective.  When a journalist or a radio  commentator from 
New Zealand or somewhere flings at me, "Mr. Irving,  are you an anti semite"? 
 I find it very difficult indeed, to keep my  temper, in view of what I've had 
to go through at the hands of the  Jewish community for six years now.  When I 
say to myself objectively.  I would be entitled to be an anti-semite because 
the Jewish community  has done these things as Jews. Shouldn't I be entitled 
to criticize  them as Jews?       But I try not to do it. I realize this would 
be wrong. But I  think there is a lot of truth now days in this modern saying. 
It is  not just a witticism.  In the old days.  An anti-semite was someone  
who didn't like the Jews.  Now it someone the Jews don't like.  But  havening 
said that, I go out of my way to keep my ties to the Jewish  community.  I've 
got lots of contacts with Jewish historians and  professors around the world. 
 It would be invidious to mention their  names. On an individual level I find 
them quite easy to remain on  cordial terms.  But it is like I say about the 
American people as a  whole.  I find the Americans quite likeable as 
individuals. I like  being among them.  But it is when they begin to form 
governments and  armies I begin to mistrust them.  So it is with the Jews too 
I am  afraid.  As individuals they are perfectly neighborly.  But when  they  
begin forming armies, congresses and centers and committees, that is  when 
they become odious and obnoxious. 
Q    Comment on the feud between the Spotlight and the IHR?
A    Yes, I want to explain to those who are not familiar with the  feud.  The 
IHR , The Institute For Historical Review, is one of the  leading revisionist 
think tanks, I suppose you would call it in modern  jargon.  Which operates 
from Los Angeles  Used to be quite a seedy  operation. The IHR was run by 
people who I would not like to be seen  drinking in an Irish pub.  It's now 
been taken over in the past few  years by people who are at least on a par 
with the lower echelons of  the established historical establishment.  People 
trying very hard to  do an honest job.  But also trying to think independently 
and  differently.  I have to admit that some of them, do it because they  
don't like the Jews.  They see revisionism as  a vehicle in which to  express 
their anti-semitic feelings. To be perfectly frank I do see  this in some of 
the people who hang out with the  IHR.       The IHR was a corporation whose 
parent corporation was a body  called The Legion For The Survival  of Freedom. 
 Which was set up in  some mysterious way in Texas, as DBA.  Doing Business 
as.  As a Texas  corporation.  It was eventually acquired by Willis Carto.  
Who runs a  right wing newspaper in this country called "The Spotlight" from  
Washington.  He actually lives in California now.  I know all these  people 
and I am a personal friend.  Obviously I recognize faults and  foibles in all 
of them. And they probably see faults and foibles in  me.  But I try to keep 
neutral in this dispute because an unfortunate  incident happened about 5 or 
10 years ago.  The niece of Thomas Alva  Edison, a multimillionaire in her own 
right, decided to leave her  fortune of 55 million dollars to the IHR.  The 
IHR never found out  about it.  Because the money went to the man who 
negotiated this  particular legacy. Willis Carto.  Willis Carto decided he was 
entitled  to allot the money to any project he saw fit.  But first he had to 
get  the money and he had to litigate the money for about 8 years in  
Switzerland, where the niece of Alva Edison had lived.  In the  meantime there 
was a certain neighbor that had acquired a title to  parts of her assets.  
There was a settlement whereby the Legion for  the Survival of Freedom was to 
get 45%.  This neighbor got 55%.  The  lawyers of course got the bulk of the 
money anyway.  About $20,000,000  remained to be split up.  So Willis Carto 
and the Legion for the  survival of Freedom got 45% of $20,000,000.  The IHR 
was very indigent  indeed when they found out about it this last year.  They 
asked.   "What happened to the money"?  That's basically what it is all about. 
  Money is the root of all evil.  I've told the IHR.  For gods sake  forget 
the money.  You're doing the cause no good. Turn your back on  the money.  
It's gone.  You're doing no good employing lawyers at all  to find none 
existent millions. They've gone.  He's used them on other  causes.  I said to 
Willis Carto.  "You should be ashamed of your  self". They all need their 
heads banged together nfortunately.  I'm  trying not to get dragged into it 
myself.  They're trying to drag me  into it.  Asking for endorsements. It is 
becoming increasingly  difficult. You asked for a frank answer and I think a 
lot of people  would  be interested it.       It's harmed the revisionist 
cause immensely.  It has caused great  comfort to our enemies.  You didn't 
expect an answer of that fullness  did you?      Q     Was every Jew arrested 
and their property confiscated in  Germany?
A    Good Lord no. Their property wasn't confiscated but after the  Night of 
Broken Glass in November 1938, Hermann Goering and the German  cabinet imposed 
a 1 billion reich mark fine on the Jewish community  collectively for the 
murder of the German diplomat in Paris by a  deranged Jewish youth.  Which 
lead to that particular outrage.  Within  the framework of that particular 
fine, Jews who tried to immigrate  abroad from November 1938 onwards found 
their assets seized by the  Reich and withheld as a part of that fine.  So 
that kind of imposition  was imposed.  But I say.  "Frankly so what?"  That's 
precisely what  the Israelis did to the Palestinians.  They used precisely the 
same  mechanics in the late 1940's in Palestine.  So my heart doesn't bleed  
for one or the other.  As for all being arrested it is not true.  A  large 
number of Jews remained at large in Germany throughout the war.   There were 
40,000 at large in Berlin until the end of the war.  Which  caused Dr. Gobbles 
the gaulieter of Berlin  extreme discomfort because  he kept writing in his 
diary that he was nervous that one of these  Jews who had "quote" nothing to 
lose, might take it upon himself to  put  a bullet into him.  There were very 
large numbers of them living,   or even living in concealment.  You have to 
realize that there were a  lot of Jews in Germany who were privileged.  If a 
Jew married a nonJew, and the marriage was not dissolved, the whole family was 
then  spared from expulsion or deportation or the holocaust or what ever it  
was.  They were spared because they became an exempt family.       This caused 
Dr. Gobbles great anguish.  Also if one member of the  family was working in 
the munitions industry up to about 1943, they  were also exempt.  But 
increasingly from 1943 on they were moved out  of the munitions industry.  So 
this exemption no longer applied.   There was no blanket arresting of Jews.   
 You gave an interview once to a newspaper in  which you said in  about 10 
years there would not be an Israel.
A    I gave an interview to The Jewish Chronicle  in Jan 1992 when   they came 
to ask me about my views on the Holocaust.  Which they then  published on the 
front page.  This is the English Jewish weekly  newspaper right wing people in 
England read. It is the only source of  news about the right wing. The Jewish 
Chronicle had this very  extensive interview with me.  They asked my views and 
I said, "the  reason why the state of Israel is so keen to keep the Holocaust 
legend  alive because it is of vital interest to the state of Israel.  If the 
 Holocaust legend withers.  If the battleship auschwitz sinks and the  
Holocaust legend withers away,  The American taxpayers is going to  stop 
giving up 3 billion dollars a year.  The German taxpayer will  stop paying 800 
million a year to the state of Israel, 4 Billion  between the two of them.  On 
which the entire economy of the state of  Israel depends.  Without this 4 
billion dollars a year the economy is  3 billion dollars  in the red.  Well, 
they could last for a year or  two running a deficit like that but not 10 
years.  So 10 years after  the collapse of the holocaust legend the state of 
Israel will cease to  exist.  It's as simple as that.  It will become such an 
unpleasant  place to live they will all come flooding back. They took this  
seriously enough that they printed it  on the front page of the main  Jewish 
newspaper in England.  They had  lively correspondence in the  correspondence 
for several weeks after that.  In which several people  said I was probably 
right.  That's basically what it is all about.  It  is not just about Mrs.  
Altman in Australia getting her compensation.   It's about the continuation 
about the state of Israel.  
Q    What do you consider a ball park figure of Jewish deaths in WW2.
A    The six million I Think you are referring to I think is an  exaggeration 
by a factor of ten. Scientists would call an order of  magnitude.  I think the 
Jewish community themselves accept the 6  million is a fictitious figure. 
They've just taken the figure and done  what Dr. Gobbles would have done.  
They keep repeating the figure  again and again. Even though they've stricken 
3 million off the  Auschwitz figure alone.  They've reduced the figure in 
Auschwitz from  4 million to allegedly one million the figure is still 
magically 6  million.  That hasn't gone down by 3 million.  They've realized 
the  importance of sticking to the magical 6 million. Keep hammering away  at 
it as Dr. Gobbles would have done.  I think that the actual figure  is about 
one tenth that.  I have reasons for saying that. If you read  the reports of 
the execution squads who operated on the eastern front,   It's quite plain,  
and this was brought out in the trial of von  Manstein by the British at 
Hamburg at the end of world war 2.  That  these figures are completely 
impossible.  that when they claim to have  killed a hundred thousand, or two 
hundred thousand people in a week  this is quite impossible.  Because the unit 
claiming to have carried  out this exterminations or shootings or massacres 
consisted of a unit  of 13 men with three two and a half ton trucks.  This 
kind of clever  collateral investigation proving the impossibility of these  
statistics.  Rather like the coal figure.  The coke supply to the  
crematories.  So you can do these checks.  So you come to a conclusion  there 
is a factor of ten involved.       But I would not say ONLY 600,000 died.  I 
would never use the  term only.  It's still a crime.  There can be no question 
of that.
Q    I've heard there has been 4,300,000 Jewish people apply for  reparations 
from Germany. Have you investigated that figure?
A    That is true.  That figure is of the correct order of magnitude.   That 
gives food for thought.  If all these people came to be survivors  that 
doesn't leave many from the total of Jews who lived in Germany  who could have 
perished.  It certainly gives food for thought. I think  this might be one 
reason why the German government is keeping its  cards close to its chest.  It 
doesn't want to be embarrassed further.  
Q     Why wont they debate?  Are they biding their time using their  vast 
resources to cover up their past?
A    Thee are in a state of great embarrassment.  Because we know the  corner 
they have been driven into? The television companies who want  to run programs 
on this have contacted the Holocaust Museum in  Washington and have pleaded 
for information with which to counter the  Revisionists.  The Holocaust in 
Washington has had to reply in FAXs  and messages  which we've seen. Quite 
frankly there is no evidence we  are wrong.  They have no evidence to back up 
their own case.  Their  only tactic at the present is what they are doing. 
Their tactics are  absolutely correct.  To refuse to debate at all.  Because 
the moment  they debate they reveal the weakness of their arguments.  That is 
why  they can't do it.  When they finally do it will be an intellectually  
challenging debate because it will reveal what methods they use. At  present 
it is just  smear.  They call us neo-Nazis, they call us  fascists, they call 
us anti-semites, they call us holocaust deniers,  But those aren't arguments. 
Those are just childish name calling.  
Q    Why did Rudolph Hoess confess?
A    Rudolph Hoess, the commandant of Auschwitz, when he was later  taken to 
Nurnberg to testify in the trial. He sat in a car together  with Morris von 
Schermeister.  Who was a press attache in the  propaganda ministry. 
Schermeister said afterwards.  He wrote an  affidavit, saying that Hoess told 
him when he asked Hoess why he had  made these statements.  Hoess said.  "If 
you put up with what I had to  put up with in the last few weeks you too would 
have been prepared to  sign any document they put in front of you".       It's 
noteworthy to see the confession  he was required to sign  was written in 
English which was a language which he had never used  and never spoken.  If 
you go look into the Nurnberg archive.  It's  written in english.  The one he 
actually signed.  Including the  statement, "I fully understand the above 
document I am signing".  But  of course he didn't understand either.       
It's one advantage of being notorious.  This man in Argentina  came up to me 
and gave me two of the Eichmann. papers.  But a man came  up to me in London 
and gave me a book which he had bought in a flee  market in Germany. Which was 
Adolph Eichmann's copy of the Hoess  memories.  Rudolph Hoess in Polish 
captivity wrote a very long  confession.  Three hundred pages.  Published by 
the Institute of  History in Munich.  Eichmann. got a copy of this book when 
in  Argentina.  He extensively made comments in the margins.  Like. this  is 
total lies.  Absolute crap.  I never spoke to Hoess at all.  How  can Hoess 
write that I  gave him orders?  I had no way of giving Hoess  orders, he was 
not my subordinate.      It is very interesting that Eichmann himself says 
Hoess is  writing rubbish.  Why Hoess did it is interesting.  It's a  
psychiatrist  problem,  I can only give a parallel here.  The  Hungarian 
Minister of the Interior, Ladner Rike,who was hung by his  fellow communists 
in 1949.  He made a confession too. He went in the  witness stand, in Bydapest 
in Hungary and he confessed to being an  American agent. An American spy.  His 
confession began something like  "I Ladner Rike former Minister of the 
Interior of the Hungarian  Peoples republic born May  13, 1003. and so on and 
so on.  But May 13  was not his birthday.  It was his wedding anniversary.  So 
he slipped  in there just as a little clue to read years later that the whole 
 thing was phoney.  Some times I think Hoess was doing the same.   Giving 
figures which were totally phoney.  Totally impossible.  Clue  to readers he 
was being tortured.  
Q    Ascertain the number of Jewes in Europe by population statistics.
A    I'm very suspicious with that kind of statistics.  I don't think  the  
population censuses that existed in Europe for the war and during  the war 
were sufficiently precise to be able to make meaningful  calculations.  
Population movements before the war and during the war,  were so vast and the 
shifting of frontiers, were so significant..And  you have basic problems of 
who is a Jew.  Even the Jews cant decide  who is a Jew.  Who is a Polish Jew. 
 Who is a Russian Jew? What  happened in 1939 when Russia invaded Poland?  Did 
they become Russian  jews.  Did they  remain Polish Jews?  Did the Poles 
deport the Jews  over the demarcation line? All these questions to my mind 
make these  statistics meaningless. I don't think you can do that kind 
analysis on  those kinds of figures.  
Q.   Can you give us a preview of coming attractions of what you have  
planned?
A.   I never intended to be a writer.  I stumbled into it.  I went to  Germany 
as a steel worker, When I was a steel worder I met a man who  had been in the 
raid on Dresden.  He told me about this air raid on  Dresden. At that time I 
was 21 years old. and I had never heard of  this air raid on Dresden and I 
decided to write a book about it. When  That book became a best seller I 
remained an author for the rest of my  life.  And I lived  happily ever after 
until quite recently.  
Q    What about Luftl.
A.   Luftl was an Austrian engineer.  The president of the Austrian   Chamber 
of Engineers.  Who two years ago foolishly announced that he  too now believed 
that the gas chamber legend was completely impossible  from an engineering 
point view. And immediately there was an alleged  outcry from all 2600 
Austrian Engineers. Who simultaneously demanded  he resign.  So he did the 
decent thing and stepped down. but he has  published several interesting 
documents since then and has not stepped  down form his opinion.  I take this 
as an example that there are a lot  of ordinarily intelligent people who are 
beginning to think for  themselves n Germany and Austria.  In spite of or 
because of the  persecution going on in those two countries.  
Thank you ladies and gentlemen.



Article 9766 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: More of Mcvays whining about Zundel ...was (Re: ZUNDEL: THE LEGEND CONTINUES!!)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:06:32 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <44gjpn$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <43n   <43sh68$p55@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tqlm$7vs@inforamp.net> <43ue83$pit@ionews.io.org> <441do7$gll@inforamp.net> <44a8q9$84k@grivel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3388 alt.politics.white-power:4720 alt.revisionism:9766 ont.general:22229

>Digital Freedom (cpn@inforamp.net) wrote:
>: 
>: Wake up buddy.   Where is CTS located?  In case you don't know, it is in 
>: California.  Now where is Ernst Zundel.  Gee, Toronto.  Boy maybe now you 
can 
>: figure out that Zundel personally does not have Internet access.
>: 
>: Is that simple enough for even you????
>: 
>
>Is the problem that there is no telephone access to California from Toronto?
>When I was last in Barcelona, I used my internet access in Australia.

If he was going to come on the Internet don't you think he would use a local 
site, instead of paying tons of money in Long distance.

Gee, I thought you guys could have figured that out.  But then again.....


>I guess that since North America has been overrun by Indians, Hispanics, 
Blacks,
>Jews and Liberals, telephone access has been destroyed.


Nope, there is just a larger demand for Lysol, Taco Bell, Welfare money and 
Kafelta Fish on bagels.

Who would have figured Immigration would do such a thing?


Marc




Article 9772 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Documented proof that Karl Mamer is a LIAR and advocated illegial harrassment
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:55:12 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 97
Message-ID: <44gml0$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <44crtn$78e@ionews.io.org> <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net> <44ehg8$86d@ionews.io.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3392 alt.politics.white-power:4724 alt.revisionism:9772 ont.general:22236

>In article <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net>, Marc Lemire  wrote:
>
>>>Care to show when I *ever* called for your BBS to be harrased? Please, if
>>>you've made such an accusation please post the message with the appropriate 
>>>message id. I'm waiting...
>>
>>I can't believe you actually said that.  And how could you ever expect to 
get 
>>away with a subject line of "Marc Lemire on bus fumes".
>>
>>Here is all the proof that I have on Mr. Mamer inciting people to harrass my 
>>BBS and another Toronto area BBS.
>>
>>All this material is also availible on my BBS, if you want to read it over 
and 
>>over again.     The number (416) 462-3327, (416) 465-4767
>>
>>Xref: portnoy can.motss:3034 alt.discrimination:37163
>>Path: portnoy!news1.fonorola.net!geac!herboid!whome!infoshare!iaw.on.ca!torn
>>howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!news.cyberstore.ca!van-bc
>>vanbc.wimsey.com!io.org!nobody
>>From: karlm@io.org (Karl Mamer)
>>Newsgroups: can.motss,alt.discrimination
>>Subject: Shut Down Hate BBSs
>>Date: 26 Aug 1995 19:38:17 -0400
>>Organization: Internex Online (Data: 363-3783/Telnet: io.org)
>>Lines: 19
>>Distribution: na
>>Message-ID: <41ob99$s3k@ionews.io.org>
>>NNTP-Posting-Host: twitch.io.org
>>
>>In Toronto we have two Hate BBSs I know of that carry Hate files and
>>messages about gays and immigrants.  They need to be shut down but the
>>police don't think it is a serious problem.
>>
>
>Okay, assuming you're not behind this, then we've both been hoodwinked.

Ya right buddy.  YOU posted the messages,  Don't try to hide.. Admitt it.


What are the chances that another Karl Mamer would use your account, and that 
both of you are interested in these type of political conferences?

100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 to 1 probibly.


And look at you.  After threating me, you have the balls to come to Usenet and 
accuse me of making a false account with your name just to do this.

You are a real loser buddy, and I think I will be fowarding the old messages 
to the Metro Toronto Police.  So I really do hope that it wasn't you.

 
>Ultimately, however, I do believe what happens on the net stays 
>on the net.

Thats what I originally thought when I signed on to the Internet.  But people 
like you have really changed my mind.


>Feel free to write to support@io.org to verify this info, Mr. Lemire.

No the Police will most likley contact Internex Online and check into it 
themelves.


>If you are satisfied, I ask you to remove the fradulent document
>from your BBS.

If it was not you, why are you worried about it?



Marc



Article 9773 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: McVay again has to be asked to keep the cheap shots to himself
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:36:03 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <44glh2$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <1995Sep27.055617.25832@wpg.ramp.net> <44d76j$sge@nimitz.fibr.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4


>>   Joe Lockhart  writes:
>
>(in impeccable English, one might add)
>  
>>  Ken, with all due respect. I think your a person who believs in what
>>  you are doing. But, you also are making money being Zundel's nemesus.
>>  Stick to what you do best, and stay away from the cheep-shots.


Mr. McVay is like a little child.  He has to throw in any cheap-shot when ever 
he can.  I have asked him many times before to stop it, but like a baby he 
doesn't answer.

But continues to cheap-shot in other messages.


I'll ask once again, but most likley to no avail.

- Mr. McVay can you please keep your cheap-shots about people to yourself.

Just stick to the facts, and don't throw in your wise-ass comments every 
chance you get.



Thank you.


Marc



Article 9774 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.censorship,alt.discrimination,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Leftist/Jewish/Anti-Racist Terrorists... EXPOSED...
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:49:05 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <44gm9g$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.censorship:52663 alt.discrimination:36216 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3393 alt.politics.white-power:4725 alt.revisionism:9774

>On Tue, 26 Sep 1995, Marc Lemire wrote:
>> That is just what I had on hand.  I never claimed it to co 100% complete 
list 
>> of terrorism, since there are selected incidents that ceom from the Right 
that 
>> I did not add in.
>
>so what was the comparison for?
>
>You made a claim that anti-racists are more violent than racists. Then 
>you provide some sort of list. If you are going to make claims about 
>quantities than you have to quantify them.

Those claims are from mostly face to face expereinces I have had with Jews and 
Anti-racists.

They spit on you, throw eggs, paint and shit on you.  The ones I have met are 
sick twisted people.


>> Not ture.
>> Both the ARA and the JDl violently oppose right-wing viewponts.  That is 
how I 
>
>No JDL only opposes groups that are anti-Jewish; it does not go after any 
>other group. It is not anti-right, only anti-anti-Semitic.

No true at all.  They consider the entire right-wing to be Anti-semetic, so in 
fact they do target the entire extreme right community.

They have however only done violent actions against the supposed 
'anti-semetic' people.


>> >> >: >When neo-nazi skins attack anti-racist protestors will you run to 
the
>> >> >: police?
>> >I believe this question was one I posed much earlier but I doubt if it 
>> >has been answered.
>> >The point I was making was that the far-right likes to talk about law and 
>> >order but itself is perfectly willing to break laws for its cause. Many 
>> >laws should be broken [not the ones they, the neo-nazis are for the most 
>> >part] but since the position of 
>> >the far-right is 'law and order' they are being entirely hypocritical.
>> 
>> Not true again.  If the ARA did attack Right-Wingers, yes they would use 
the 
>> police.  Look for example at the time the Heritage Front went to court.  
There 
>> were hundreds of ARA supporters protesting the Heritage front and the Front 
>> worked closley with the police to try to stem more violence that could have 
>> eurupted at any second.
>
>Within three sentences you have contradicted yourself. Does the ARA use 
>the police or the Heritage Front?

In my first sentence the word 'they', is in reference to the word Right-Wing 
in your last sentence.  I thought you could figure that out. 


>There you go again. You evade the question about violence by the 
>neo-nazis. I have seen the videotape of neo-nazis go after anti-racist 
>protestors (not ARA btw) and be very violent about it.

What tape is this.  It is not from Toronto, because I have never heard of this 
and I have been following this movement for a long time.


>Sure you work with the police. The police and you have nearly identical 
>values and beliefs. That is just it.

There goes your credibility.  I can't believe you would say such a stupid 
remark after the conversation was going so good.

Oh well just shows your mentality.



>You whine about 'ZoG' but the system protects you.

What a COMPLETE LIE.  I have never said one thing about ZOG and I do NOT 
believe in the existance of it.

Why are you making up facts?




>No you quote sources that are not credible.


Yes I know that the Toronto Star, Toronto Sun, Globe and Mail and the New York 
Times are such lying rags.



Get a clue buddy!


Marc



Article 9775 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!swrinde!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Mother Immune to Zyklon B?????????????
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 12:00:12 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <44gmub$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca> <441ms9$s26@larry.cc.emory.edu> <448g9e$qci@inforamp.net>  <4498s2$d9s@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <1995Sep27.055617.25832@wpg.ramp.net> <44b3gu$vts@rover.ucs.ualberta.ca>  <1995Sep28.210246.11440@wpg.ramp.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3394 alt.revisionism:9775 ont.general:22237

>jmarynow@idirect.com (John Marynowicz) wrote:
>>morris@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (John Morris) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In case you don't know, the Lachout document purports to be a report
>>>from an Austrian officer named Mueller who claims that the Allied
>>>commission that he has worked with has has found no evidence of
>>>exermination camps.
>>
>>I came upon this discussion in the middle of it and have missed much
>>of it, but anyways.
>>
>>Has anyone ever tried to ask one of the survivors of the camps if this
>>stuff happened?
>>
>>I have.  She's my mother!
>>
>>Over the 39 years of my life I have heard stories from her that would
>>turn your stomach.  She has described to me stories of having to pull
>>bodies out of gas chambers as a regular daily chore.  Sometimes they
>>were bodies of friends and relatives.

And your mother is immune to Zyklon B?

Marc



Article 9777 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
Subject: Re: The real Holocaust: DRESDEN Part 2
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:14:17 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 62
Message-ID: <44gk89$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <43u2m8$8v2@inforamp.net> <43ul5f$cld@trst.cca.vu.nl> <44a92e$84k@grivel.une.edu.au>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:4727 alt.politics.nationalism.white:3396 alt.revisionism:9777 alt.skinheads:3898

>: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>: 
>: >HOLOCAUST AT DRESDEN
>: >By George Fowler
>: >(from The Barnes Review)
>: 
>: Dresden is NOT the real holocaust. The real holocaust is the mass
>: murder on the jews during the nazi-years. Why? Because the nazi's
>: started the war. Because the nazi's murdered millions. Because the
>: holocaust is a unique event in human history where industrial methods
>: were used to slaughter millions of innocent people. This is not a
>: belief, but a well-documented fact.

So I guess the Jews have a copyright on the Holocaust(TM) now?

Even though the Websters Expanded Dictionary calls a Holocaust "A burnt 
sacrifice of which the whole was consumed by fire; a great slaughter"

Now do you anywhere in that exact quote from the Dictionary see any reference 
to the Jews?  

By the way, the Holocaust(TM) is not a unique thing in history.  The Germans 
had a Holocaust(TM) by the Allies in Dresden, the Russians caused a 
Holocaust(TM), Po Pot caused a Holocaust(TM).... on and on



>: If these white radicals are so anti-jew, why should they need to deny
>: the holocaust? Be a man and say: "The jews were murdered because they
>: should be murdered". That makes sense (to me).

And who are these 'White radicals' that have said that?

Or is it just lip-music that sounds good on the way out, but yet you have 
never really heard it from anyone?  

Sounds like another Ken-McVay-fact(TM).



Marc


Article 9778 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.cyberstore.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!van-bc!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!news.kei.com!simtel!news.sprintlink.net!in1.uu.net!newsflash.concordia.ca!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Let's all make a collection and give Zuendel an account! (was: Re: Ernst Zuendel's access to the internet)
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 11:16:16 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <44gkbv$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <415d5a$j4m@knot.queensu.ca>  <43b5ed$ci1@ionews.io.org>  <43pmq6$6bj@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca> <43tq03$7um@inforamp.net>  <448i3i$qci@inforamp.net> <44aebt$4t0@eldborg.rhi.hi.is>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4

>In <448i3i$qci@inforamp.net> cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) writes:
>
>>Mr. Zundel does not have full access to the Internet.  He has a Webmaster 
who 
>>does the Internet chores, but he does not have access to IRC or anything 
like 
>>that.
>
>Poor Zuendel.  Too poor to afford a net account, even though all the
>trailer-trash in Canada seem to afford one these days.  Why don't we all

Oh is that how YOU got an Internet acount.






Marc


Article 9779 of alt.revisionism:
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsjunkie.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!good.freedom.net!news.pepboys.com!hookup!nstn.ns.ca!inforamp.net!PC
From: cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire)
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,ont.general,tor.general
Subject: Re: Documented proof that Karl Mamer is a LIAR and advocated illegial harrassment
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 12:07:00 GMT
Organization: Canadian Patriots Network
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <44gnb3$fsg@inforamp.net>
References: <44crtn$78e@ionews.io.org> <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net> 
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts3-14.inforamp.net
X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:3397 alt.politics.white-power:4728 alt.revisionism:9779 ont.general:22238

>In article <44d5uo$pka@inforamp.net>, cpn@inforamp.net (Marc Lemire) wrote:
>
>
>> Here is all the proof that I have on Mr. Mamer inciting people to harrass 
my 
>> BBS and another Toronto area BBS.
>
>> Here is the original message post by Mr. Mamer to Alt.discrimination
>> START______________________________________________________________________
>> 
>> FORUM:   U-ALTDISCRIM  |61                    HOST: CRS
>> DATE:    Aug-27-95 7:46am                     MSG:  11489
>> FROM:    KARLM@IO.ORG
>> TO:      ALL
>> SUBJECT: Shut Down Hate BBSs
>
>
>   That is not Karl Mamer's email address.Get your facts straight.This is
>obviously a cheap attempt at forgery by someone who doesnt do their
>homework before they slander someone.

Oh, just because he changed part of his E-Mail address after I started talking 
about giving the messages to the police surprises you?

He didn't change his Internet provider, only shuffled his name around abit, 
but for some reason he did keep his old actual name.  but I think that is a 
requirement at Internex Online.  



Marc

Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.