The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kreiberg.ole/1996/the-krakowski-lie



From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Mar 11 11:21:45 PST 1996
Article: 26922 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Jewish Eyewitnesses
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 1996 20:33:19 +0100
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  The following are critical comments by mostly Jews about the credibility 
of the Jewish Holocaust eyewitnesses:  

       "A large number of testimonials on file were later proved to be 
       inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert 
       historian's appraisal"   

                             -Shmuel Krakowski
                   Director of Archives, Yad Vashem, Israel.
             Interview in Jerusalem Post, 17th August 1986; page 1

         "Much of personal [survivor] testimony is unreliable about
       names, location or dates... What survivors speak about most is
       their suffering. Samuel Gringauz, himself a survivor, had harsh
       words for these personal histories. In the January 1950 issue of
       Jewish Social Studies he called them "Judeocentric, logocentric
       and egocentric". For him, most of the memoires were full of
       'preposterous verbosity, exaggeration, dramatic effects,
       dilettante philosophizing, would be lyricism, unchecked rumours,
       bias and apologies"
                                 -Raul Hilberg
       Interview in Jerusalem Post, International Edition, 28th June
       1986; page 8


       "A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this
       material ... particular [survivor narratives]... the Eastern
       European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery
       similes...sometimes the imagery transcends credibility"

                               -Gerald Reitlinger
                               The Final Solution
                      Sphere Books, London, 1971; page 581


       "If Eichmann's name was mentioned at all, it was obviously hearsay
       evidence, "rumours testified to", hence without legal validity.
       The testimony of all witnesses who had "seen him with their own
       eyes" collapsed the moment a question was addressed to them"

                                 -Hannah Arendt
                             Eichmann in Jerusalem
                     Penguin Books, London, 1978; page 672


       "But it is true that, along with many authentic works, there have
       been books or films which were only partly true, or even were
       partly faked. And unfortunately, even reputable historians often
       fail in their duty of care...for instance Martin Gilbert...in
       Final Journey"

                                 -Gitta Sereny
                                 New Statesman
                          2nd November 1979; page 672


       "A very disturbing thing has happened to journalism, to the
       writing of history, and even to justice. In anything to do with
       the Nazis...any attempt at detachment is considered suspect, any
       degree of objectivity reprehensible...I have to battle in print
       against...men like Martin Gray (For Those I Loved) who use these
       appalling [Holocaust] events for self-aggrandisement...but
       attacking Gray causes wrathful indignation among Holocaust
       dogmatists"

                                 -Gitta Sereny
                             London Review of Books
                            21st April 1988; page 3


       "I know of no other case in which so many deviations from
       procedures internationally accepted as desirable occurred. "Every
       year on August 2 - the day of the uprising in Treblinka - some of
       survivors used to meet in Tel Aviv. Turowski, Goldfarb and
       Rosenfarb all lived in Israel, as did the witnesses who identified
       Demjanjuk in September and October: Czarny, Boraks and Lindwasser.
       Their testimony can be accepted only after it established that
       they did not meet with the other three.
         "Some doubts on the matter are justified because...the witnesses
       travelled together in the same aircraft to Fort Lauderdale, where
       the Fedorenko trial was held. They also stayed in the same hotel,
       had meals together, but were still supposed to make fully
       independent identifications. Boraks - who was not in full command
       of his memory when questioned in 1987 - declared when asked about
       the journey to Fort Lauderdale, that he went there by train."

                            -Dr. William A. Wagenaar
                                Identifying Ivan
                    Harvard University Press, 1989; page 110


       "...More detailed research [into the Holocaust] however mostly
       establishes only how shaky is the ground we're on; the consensus
       of research data often turns out only to be the result of
       everybody having uncritically copied what everybody else was
       writing; the actual documentary basis on many matters is
       frighteningly narrow and is in consequence easily shattered by
       some new find or other; in all too documentary basis on many
       matters we are still groping in total darkness. If we are to avert
       being scandalously shown up, in the next few years historical
       research is going to have to do all it can not only to establish
       better documentary defences but broader-based ones as well"

                           Dr. Hans-Heinrich Wilhelm
                       Offene Fragen der Holocaust-Fragen
       An unpublished paper delivered at a symposium at the University of
       Riga in September 1988.


       Posted by Ole kreiberg
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From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Mar 16 08:48:26 PST 1996
Article: 27207 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 1996 13:45:12 +0100
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References: <-IqHnOev1WbQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>
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In article <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>You smeared and slandered a fellow named Krakowski and seem not whit whit 
>apologetic about having done so.

 No why would I? I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem 
Post was a reliable source. And then stop calling me Nazi-boy. This is an  
outright libel.

Ole Kreiberg

--
From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:51 PST 1996
Article: 27355 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:11:44 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 23
Message-ID: 
References: <-IqHnOev1WbQ065yn@login.dknet.dk> <4iapug$oj3@news.enter.net>  <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>
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In article <199603170853.DAA06676@vixa.voyager.net>, Jamie McCarthy wrote:
>(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
>alt.revisionism)
>
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) wrote:
>
>> I was acting in good faith trusting that the Jerusalem 
>> Post was a reliable source.
>
>Not even Bradley Smith claims to have gotten the Krakowski error
>directly from the Jerusalem Post.  He admits that he got it from
>revisionist friends or colleagues of his, and that it's been passed
>around for a while.
>
>Where did you really get the quote, Mr. Kreiberg?  

Does it matter where I got the article from? It only counts whether the 
quote was authentic or not. 

Ole Kreiberg


--


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Mar 17 21:12:52 PST 1996
Article: 27356 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Ole Kreiberg & the Krakowski Lie
Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1996 22:18:53 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:

># Anyway, this is typical for you anti-revisionist, you just sit 
># there waiting for revisionists to make a small mistake and then 
># abuse this to smear and slander them by calling them liars.
>
>Ah, shut your trap, you stupid little whiner. Go cry to your mommy.
>
I think that the reason that Daniel Keren always is so rude and
insolent is that he hopes that he can provoke his counterparts to respond
the same way. This give him the opportunity to air his Jewish paranoia
by shouting about "anti-semitism" and "nazism". I remember he once provoked
me to call him the master of abuse and distortion without mentioning 
his Jewish background and at once he made comparisons with Goebels. As
so many other Jews he has got "nazis" on the brain. Oh now I have said
something unfavourable about Jews so therefore I must be nasty a nazi and 
anti-semite, because the Jews cannot do anything wrong. 

Ole Kreiberg

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