The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kreiberg.ole/1996/kreiberg.1296


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec  3 06:49:09 PST 1996
Article: 83250 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 10:46:33 +0100
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In article , Bruce Forest wrote:

>To prevent asssholes like you from trying to convince the world the Shoah
>never happened. You are a well known anti-semite on alt.revisionism.
>
 Because I dare to disagree with the Jews I am supposed to be an 
anti-semite :-D :-D
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec  3 06:49:10 PST 1996
Article: 83251 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 1996 10:31:48 +0100
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In article <57rel3$9fl@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>, Steven Malcolm Ande wrote:
>
> Are you referring to the 1967 war when the Arab nations attacked
>Israel and lost? 

 I am referring to the fact that the Jews stole Palestine from the Arabs in
the first place. In order to ethnic cleanse Palestine so that the Jews could
become the majority Jewish terrorist gangs committed the infamous Deir
Yassin massacre, after which hundred thousands of Arabs fled to the 
neighbouring Arab countries in panic.

>
> If they showed the same disrespect to you that you show to them, you'd
>be pissed as hell.

 I still do not understand what kind of respect I owe them. I am Danish
and no Danes participated in those events. I do not understand why the 
Germans and the Jews want to rape me with their mutual sad history. 

> Because they don't want it repeated.

 This statement sound rather paranoid to me. Why is there more danger that
this particular event could be repeated than other historical events?

>
>>Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman
>>being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the
>right
>>to kill it?
>
> I do not regard a fetus as human. 

 Now you are thinking like the nazis were supposed have done about the Jews 
according to the established historiography. According to the Germans the 
Jews were not supposed to be really human beings but "subhumans". Fetuses 
are not real human beings and can therefore be killed. Isn't this the way 
you are thinking?

>
> I call you a Nazi because of your hateful in-your-face attitude toward
>Jewish people. 

 Why isn't it possible to criticise the Jews without being labelled "nazi"
or "anti-semite"? Are the Jews not able to do anything wrong?

>You certainly do have the right to express your beliefs

 Not in countries like crazy STASI Germany and Funny France. Here it is
regarded a thought-crime to express dissident views on the established
historiography of the fate of the Jews during WW2 in Germany and in
the countries occupied by the Germans. 

>or disbeliefs or, in this case, your obvious hatred for "the Jews",

I criticise the Jews and this is supposed to be hatred. I thought hatred
was something you felt toward somebody supressing you or doing something
wrong to you? Like the Jews hating the Germans because of the treatment
given to them by the Germans during WW2.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec  3 06:49:11 PST 1996
Article: 83280 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 22:56:45 -0100
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In article <57q1ka$alr@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, Steven Malcolm Ande wrote:
>In  olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
>>>
>>> Crawl back into your hole, Nazi scum.
>>>
>>I am not a nazi, and I have never been.
>
> You might as well be, the way you talk about Jews.

 Criticising the Jews or failing to symphatizing with them are the same 
as being a nazi in your opinion. Did the Palestinians become "nazis" after 
the zionists had grabbed their country?
>
> For the same reason you don't laugh at a funeral. Many of their
>relatives are still alive and still mourning over the loved ones they
>lost in the camps. 
>
 I could not care what the Jews are doing over their past. I do not
expect the Jews to pay any particular respect for my dead relatives
that died more than fifty years ago, even if they were murdered by somebody.
Why do the Jews keep bothering the world with their holocaust story after
all these years?

Returning to the subject. What is a fetus? A human being or a subhuman 
being? If it you consider it a subhuman being, does that give you the right
to kill it?

 And please do not call be a nazi just because I refuse to believe in
the holocaust.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec  3 06:49:12 PST 1996
Article: 83435 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 20:34:02 +0100
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In article <57tafc$kgc@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>, Steven Malcolm Ande wrote:
>
> You owe them the respect of not rubbing their suffering, or your
>disbelief in it, in their faces.

 Why? Is their suffering more than 50 years ago something sacred? If they
keep reminding me about their oh so important sufferings before I was even
born I will take the liberty of criticising them.

>
> I am Danish
>>and no Danes participated in those events.
>
> The Danish king and people acted nobly during that war in resisting
>the Nazis as much as they could.
>
Bah. Germany is an ancient old enemy of Denmark. The Danes did not resist
nazism. They resisted the Germans. Hitler said several times that nazism
knows only Germany and is not meant for export. I think that the Danes
could care less that the Germans called themselves nazis. They would have
hated them anyhow because they invading their country.

> I do not understand why the Germans and the Jews want to rape me with
>their mutual sad history. 
>
> The entire world, most definitely including your country, was involved
>in that war. 

 Denmark was strictly neutral until it was invaded by the enemy. Even after
the invasion it tried to act as neutral as possible in order to avoid
getting involved and trampled down in a war between the Great Powers.

>And many Jews consider a denial of their suffering to be a
>form of rape, in that sense.
>
 The Jews have no right in meddling with what I am thinking about their
trivial suffering 50 years ago. Most of the present Jews were not even
born at that time or lived outside the German occupied Europe. Therefore
they do not qualify as sufferers.

>
> I don't accept that analogy as valid. What a woman does with her own
>body and life is strictly a private matter between her and her God or
>Gods -- 

Yeah what the Germans did to their Jews is strictly a private matter between
them and their Gods - is that what you are trying to tell me?  

> Your continual use of the phrase "the Jews", as if they were all the
>same, is bigoted. Say "Jews" instead, with no "the".

Hm is it also bigoted to use the phrase the Americans, the Arabs, the Danes 
or the Germans? 
>
> I oppose such laws. I believe in freedom of thought and expression
>even for bigots.

 Every decent person thinks so. The problem with the Germans is that 
decency is alien to them. Whatever they are dealing with, their true
nature shines through. Today they call themselves "democrats" although
Germany is one of the last countries in Europe with political prisoners. 
Heavy passion bordering fanatism and intolerance are an innate part of their 
nature. Witchhunts against those that are different have always been a part
of German life. Today it is revisionists, scientologists, and right-winged 
dissidents. 50 years ago it was the Jews. Further back they burned "witches" 
and heritics at stake or they butchered each other in fanatic religious war. 

> I oppose hatred of "the Germans" also. That, too, is bigoted. 

Gee.  really.

Listen to Elie Wiesel, the bigot:

Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate - 
healthy, virile hate - for what the German personifies and for what 
persists in te German. To do otherwise would be a betrayal of the 
Dead ("Appointment with Hate," Legend of Our Time, New York, Avon
books, 1968, pp 177-8)


--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec  3 11:37:59 PST 1996
Article: 83524 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 16:43:14 +0100
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In article <580g2o$m5r@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>, Steven Malcolm Ande wrote:
>
> Cripe! If you don't like Jews and hearing about the Holocaust (Shoah),
>then why are you reading and posting in alt.revisionism? 

  Because of the suppression of the freedom of speech for revisionists in 
France and Germany and the attempts by the same nations to bully my country 
through the EU into doing the same. Whether the holocaust happened or not is 
to me a small issue in comparison to the assaults on the freedom of speech. 
I think that everyone has a moral obligation to question or even better to 
refuse to believe in the Holocaust as a protest to such bizarre legislation.  

  Today our obnoxious neighbour country, Germany wants to have Danish 
citizens who express views on nazism that are not sanctioned by the German 
authorities, incarcarated - like in 1940 - 45. In this case history is 
repeating itselfs. Germany gives billions of dollars to Israel every year 
because of WW2 while Germany has still not paid Denmark a cent of those 
loans they got from the Danish central bank during WW2. So much for the 
respect of Germany for Denmark.

[Follow ups to alt.revisionism]
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec  6 04:16:37 PST 1996
Article: 84026 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: THE FATE OF THE POLISH JEWS DURING WW2
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 22:42:35 +0100
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In article <57rqtc$lql$3@gruvel.une.edu.au>, ibokor wrote:
>
>I'm glad to see that you can admit to having been wrong'
>
I have never said that the French are of pure Celtic stock. Of course
they are mixed. So are the English and the Germans.  

>: but the Celtic part is the predominant element. 
>
>Not at all! As pointed out in an earlier posting, 
>remant Celts are in Brittany predoinantly. The
>dominant strains in France are the Franks and
>other later invaders.
>
 I certainly do not agree here. The Franks may have settled as a kind of
upper class like the Normans did in Normandy. To say that the Franks
are the dominant strains in France is as wrong as to say that the 
dominant strains in England are the Normans.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec  8 07:16:27 PST 1996
Article: 84361 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1996 23:04:09 +0100
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In article <32A8C326.62A1@umich.edu>, joshua turner  wrote:
>
>I honestly don't understand revisionism of this sort. I guess it comes
>out of human need to deny tragedy--the Holocaust is so overwhelming,
>philosophically and morally, 

 Whether it happened or not, it is not more overwhelming than other alleged
masskillings. The Germans may have a problem with their past, but the rest
of the world should leave the Germans with this. It is defamatory to claim 
that the whole of Europe was responsible for what these Germans did or did 
not do. Germany was an independent nation acting on it's own.

> If the Holocaust were truly a manufactured event, why didn't the Germans 
>point this out? 

Because they were not allowed to. The Nuremberg court was kangaroo court.

>
>Read a book. Then, read it again. And learn something. 

I have read many books. Revisionist as well as non-revisionist.

>
>One more question. if the Holocaust didn't happen, are these events
>myths as well?
>               The massacre in Kampuchea

 Who knows exactly how many that died in Kampuchea? Most of the sources to 
the Kampuchean holocaust are Vietnamese. Vietnam was an invading aggressor
in Kampuchea. The UN comdemned this invasion, and Vietnam could easily
have exaggerated the Khmer Rouge atrocities in order to justify their own 
act.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec  8 07:16:28 PST 1996
Article: 84363 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1996 23:23:21 +0100
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In article <32A8A914.43E@internetMCI.com>, Milton Wong  wrote:
>
> I am opposed to racially motivated violence against any ethnic group 
>(Jews included). 

So am I.

>The Jews' false belief that they are still God's "chosen people", and their 
>belief in their own importance and superiority, is probably one of the 
>reasons why they have always been hated by non-Jews wherever they have lived. 

Exactly. 
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec  9 05:19:20 PST 1996
Article: 84507 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.abortion.inequity,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 21:41:40 +0100
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In article <58dhn7$a7j@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>, Steven Malcolm Ande wrote:

> And then Hiroshima and Nagasaki were faked by Japan to instill guilt in 
>the Allies and get us to buy more Japanese products.....
>

Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden and Hamburg were real war crimes that were
not tried at the Nuremberg court. This fact justifies calling the Nuremberg
court a Kangaroo court.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec  9 05:19:21 PST 1996
Article: 84510 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 1996 21:52:11 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:

[Followup = alt.revisionism]

>
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
># It is defamatory to claim that the whole of Europe was
># responsible for what these Germans did or did not do.
>
>Who's making that claim?

 I have heard Jews claiming that the holocaust was a culmination of the
European culture and the WW2 was a kind of ideological war against 
nazism and not just a war against German agression and expansion as if 
nazism was some kind of universal European phenomenon and not something 
confined to Germany (and Austria). Even e.g. Danes and White American are 
because of their ancestry supposed to share some of the guilt for the 
allege events with the Germans. 

> You said that the corpses would "violently explode" in the furnaces, 
>damaging them...

I have never said that, but I have quoted a Canadian crematory expert
for saying so.

>
>You're a nut, Kreiberg. Live with it.
>
These are the words of the rowdy Daniel Keren the master of slander and
distortion from alt.revisionism.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec  9 05:19:22 PST 1996
Article: 84595 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Gore with the ultimate anti-Semitism.....
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 21:59:27 +0100
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In article <32a4de65.106180420@news.micron.net>, Kurt Stele wrote:
>
>There's no time for petty nationalism right now. 

 But still the Germans have no right in trying to export their phony guilt
to Denmark or other Non-German nations. It is like if they dumped all 
their garbage here. What ever they did or did during WW2 is solely their 
responsibilty. 

 Furthermore German hegemony, no matter in what political disguise, can 
never be acceptable.

>All people of
>European descent need to band together right now if we are to survive
>the coming battle for our existence.  
>

Sure, but in a kind of alliance where the full sovereignty of each nation is 
respected.. 
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 13 05:45:03 PST 1996
Article: 85327 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Nazi discusses war crimes (And response to Chuck)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:58:34 +0100
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In article <58o6e5$av5@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
>       Unless, of course, if you are a gypsy, a Jew, A Pole, A Slovak, a 
>Czech, a Slovene, a Slav, a "useless life" or any other member of a group 
>that your heros considered inferior.  In that case, you "best hope" would 
>be a quick death.  The alternative was slavery or slow starvation.
>
  Slavs like Slovaks, Croats and Bulgarians got well along with Nazi-
Germany. Germanic nations like Holland and Norway were treated much worse
than e.g. Slovakia by Germany.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 13 09:44:43 PST 1996
Article: 85409 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: German and Jewish chauvinism
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 12:12:47 +0100
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In article <58qjbk$sti@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:

>       Sure, nazi boy.  Your nazi heroes just loved the Slavs:
>
>       As Hitler (your hero) wrote in "Mein Kamph" :

Hitler, the Kraut - my hero?

>
>       "If land was desired in Europe, it could be obtained by and large only 
>at the expense of Russia and this meant that the new Reich must again set 
>itself on the march along the road of the Teutonic Knights of old, to obtain by 
>the German sword sod for the German plow and daily bread for the nation."  
>(Houghton Mifflin translation 1943 in two volumes;  Vol I., page 140.)
>

They were against the Slavs in Russia, Ukraine and Poland, because they 
wanted to grab some of their territory - the same way that the Israelis want 
to grab territory from the Arabs e.g on the West Bank and Golan.. Remember 
the Israelis believe that they belong to God's chosen people and think that 
they  have a divine right to take this land from the "inferior" Arabs.

>
>       "We are a master race, which must remember that the lowliest 
>German worker is racially and biologically a thousand times more valuable than 
>the population here."

A lot of silly German chauvinism.

>       "the Slavs are to work for us.  In so far as we don't need them, they 
>may die.  
>
>From  the Jewish Bible, Talmud. The Bible of "God's chosen people" teachs:

The Earth was created only for the sake of the Jews. (Vayikra Rabba 36)

The Jews were created to be served by non-Jews. The latter must plow, sow,
weed, dig, mow, bind, sieve and grind. The Jews are created to find all
this in readiness. (Berachoth)

Jews are human beings; the other people of the world are not human beings,
but beasts. (Baba Mezia)

Extermination of Christians is a necessary sacrifice. (Zohar II 43a)

Even the best of the Gentiles deserves to be killed. (Abodan Zarah 26b)


Now lawyer boy. Is there really any big difference between German 
chauvinist raving and Jewish chauvinist raving?
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec 15 08:42:14 PST 1996
Article: 85850 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Edeiken Lying Again
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 22:55:40 +0100
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References:  <58utv4$5hn@news.enter.net>
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In article <58utv4$5hn@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
>       As an ethnic German living in Denmark, you should be more careful 
>about your anti-Semitism.  

 You have still not produced a single valid piece of evidence for your wild
allegation of me being an ethnic German. I have my birth certificate, the 
birth certificates of my parents and grandparents. What do you have? You 
have nothing. 

>Most Danes do not like such things. 

Gee, really, and what do you know about that? 
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 16 07:05:25 PST 1996
Article: 85908 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Edeiken is distorting things again
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 21:27:31 +0100
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In article <59189r$per@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
>       I have your own admissions that:
>
>       1.  Your name is not Danish but German;

 You are distorting. My name may not sound typical Danish, but it is 
certainly not German. Just show me just one genuine German with that name
or shut up.

>
>       2.  You come from an area of Denmark where a substantial proportion 
>of the population was ethnically German;
>

 This is not true. I was born and grew up on the island of Sealand, where
the only Germans are those that may have come recently from Germany. The 
last 25 years I have lived in a suburb of Copenhagen. Copenhagen is situated
on the island of Sealand.

>       3.  you family changed its name at a time when there was conflict 
>between Denmark and Germany 

 This is lie. My father changed his name back in the late forties.

>and many ethnic Germans were doing so as a 
>symbol of their support for their adopted country;

 This is absolute nonsens. No serious Danish historian will agree with
you. In fact many Danes have German names. Since the Middle Ages Germans 
have settled in Denmark and have been absorbed in the Danish population.
Like a lot of Germans and people of other European nationalities have 
settled in the USA and have been absorbed in White English speaking 
American population. E.g. the name Roosevelt is of Dutch origin, but does 
that mean that the Americans regarded these two American presidents Theodore 
Roosevelt and Franklin D. Roosevelt for Dutchmen. It is no more stigmatizing 
in having a German name in Denmark than in the USA. 

 The conflict between Germany and Denmark in the 19th century had to do with 
the national status of the Duchy of Slesvig in the Southern part of Denmark. 
There had been a mixed German population there since the Middle Ages. However 
due to intermarrying ever since and having the same religion, it is not 
determined by your name to which group you belong but only by which country 
you are loyal to. 

>       4. When your family changed its name it picked a Germanized version 
>of the name of a Danish town.

 There is no Germanized version of Danish towns in that part of the country.
This is only the case in the above mentioned Slesvig.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 20 15:40:30 PST 1996
Article: 87040 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: German and Jewish chauvinism
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 22:19:19 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
>[Alleged racist "quotes" from Jewish sources]
>
>My, my. Good old nazi-boy here, the same one who
>wants to arrest, torture and deport Danish citizens
                  ^^^^^^^
 Torture??

>
>These quotes were posted here, many times. People
>have invariably commented on them, saying either
>the sources don't exist, or that the translation
>is false.

 You mean that they have tried to explain it all away.

>
>So, nazi-boy, here's a challenge. Verify these "quotes"
>yourself, and post them, in the original language.

 In Hebrew? I have already told I have them from Professor Pranaiti's 
booklet. Are you able to prove that this booklet consist something
untrue? The burden of proof lies with you.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 20 15:40:31 PST 1996
Article: 87049 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: What does Edeiken know about my roots?
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 20:23:02 +0100
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In article <59256c$2fl@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>>   olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>>  In article <59189r$per@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
>>  >       I have your own admissions that:
>
>>  >       1.  Your name is not Danish but German;
>  
>>   You are distorting. My name may not sound typical Danish, but it is 
>>  certainly not German. Just show me just one genuine German with that name
>>  or shut up.
>
>       Lying again, nazi boy?  You stated that your name was the Germanized 
>version of the Danish town of Krjeborg.
                               ^^^^^^^^
You mean Krejbjerg. 

>>   This is not true. I was born and grew up on the island of Sealand, where
>>  the only Germans are those that may have come recently from Germany. The 
>>  last 25 years I have lived in a suburb of Copenhagen. Copenhagen is situated
>>  on the island of Sealand.
>
>       This is not the location you gave for your family at the time they 
>changed their name to cover their German roots.

 Hey do you really think that Germans would try to cover their roots this way. 
To me this would rather be Jewish behaviour. Remember that the Jews are 
great name changers.  

>
>  
>>  >       3.  you family changed its name at a time when there was conflict 
>>  >between Denmark and Germany 

This is nonsens. You have no evidence to back up this allegation.
>  
>>   This is lie. My father changed his name back in the late forties.
>
>       Krieberg is changing his story again.  You previously stated that your 
>name was changed in the late 19th century.  

 No. My Great Great grandfather on my mother's side was a German. On my 
father's side there have been no Germans. 

>Moreover you noted that a distant 
>cousin in the United States was named "Krieberg" and considered himself a 
>Dane.  It is obvious that one cannot develop distant cousins in a single 
>generation.
>
His forefather may have changed it after he arrived in the USA. Well are 
Americans able to pronounce Krejbjerg? I do not think so. I have lived in 
America and they do not seem to have problems with saying Kreiberg, 
allthough they pronounce it differently. I have by the way much bigger 
problems with my first name over there, where I have to call myself Ollie or 
Al.

>  
>>  >and many ethnic Germans were doing so as a 
>>  >symbol of their support for their adopted country;
>  
>>   This is absolute nonsens. No serious Danish historian will agree with
>>  you. In fact many Danes have German names. Since the Middle Ages Germans 
>>  have settled in Denmark and have been absorbed in the Danish population.
>>  Like a lot of Germans and people of other European nationalities have 
>>  settled in the USA and have been absorbed in White English speaking 
>>  American population. E.g. the name Roosevelt is of Dutch origin, but does 
>>  that mean that the Americans regarded these two American presidents 
>
>       What is nonsense is your statement.  For your information many 
>Americans and British *did* change their names for exactly this reason.  Examples 
>are the British royal family.  I suggest, as well, that you look up some of the 
>scurrilous propaganda
>
 There are many Danes with names of German origin. Another strange paradox 
is that there are many Germans with typical Danish names. E.g. one of the 
most common Danish names is Hansen, and you find many Germans with that name 
even in the south of Germany. If you point this to the Germans they will 
claim that the name is German and you can get an argument out of that. The 
same goes with a name like Petersen. 

> I would give some thought as 
>to what will happen when your gellow Danish "patriots" start to question 
>you about your ethnic origins.
>
 Hm. A month ago I was at a meeting with Danish Patriots. At this meeting
there was a German woman from the former Eastern Germany. She was married
to a Scandinavian and lived permanently in Denmark. She spoke with a heavy
accent and asked whether her German heritage would be a problem. The leader
of the patriots said that Germans did not fall within the category for
the coming general repatriation, and I said that we furthermore have no 
intentions in reviving old conflicts between Denmark and Germany. The 
immigration from the third world is the main problem like it is in Germany. 
She was affiliated with the German non-nazi patriotic party "Deutsche 
Volksunion" with which the Danish patriots have had some contact.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec 22 11:50:01 PST 1996
Article: 92811 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 1996 22:27:23 -0100
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In article <59diku$4tl@news.nevada.edu>, OSCAR SCHLAF wrote:
>
> Germany & The Netherlands are both part of the EU and sooner or later they
>are going to have a united polie force as well as military. 

The Netherlands are soon totally under German hegemony. 

>  And the acts by the police arent really facist. Internal security is 
>more important to Europeans then personal freedoms. 

 You mean it is more important to the Germans and their ugly, alien,
authoritarian and phony "democracy". Germany is the greatest threat to 
democracy and freedom in Europe. What they failed to accomplish by war and 
open faschism they are now trying to accomplish through their European Union. 
Crush the European Union with it's German hegemony and tyranny. Isolate 
Germany politically and economically. Germany is one the few countries in 
Europe that still has political prisoners. Germany is a disgrace on Europe.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec 22 16:58:19 PST 1996
Article: 92827 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:27:24 +0100
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In article <32bd757c.7408284@193.12.69.3>, Anti Cult wrote:

> That would not be any problem if
>these levels actually did exist and were desirable goals, but since
>it's just smoke in the wind, it's just as bad as stating that the
>arian race is supreme to other races.

Is the teachings of other religions more real or true? 

>Show me one democratic part of scn. The scn system is anti democratic.

 Is Christianity or the other classic religions democratic? These religions
all arised in non-democratic societies. E.g. is the pope elected 
democratically by the catholics? Is God for that matter elected 
democratically in any religion. No religion reflects a democratic 
ideology - face it.

>If the above plea, came from other fascistic organisations, what would
>you have answered?. If the nazis came with the same plea of giving
>them room for our way of living and viewing things, what would you
>have answered? The fact is that they did, the German society once
>agreed to give them room for their way of living and viewing things.
>We ended up with WWII and the holocaust.

 A lot of countries gave room for the communist way of living and viewing
things. Still more people died in communist camps than in nazi-camps.
How many people have died through history due to Islamic Jihad (Holy War)? 
How many witches and heretics were tortured and burnt at stake in Christian
Europe just a few centuries ago. It makes no sense to me to make 
scientology scapegoats for flaws in the human character. Religions and
political ideologies are created by humans and as are exactly as evil as
human beings.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 23 12:10:24 PST 1996
Article: 92875 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 19:23:26 +0100
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In article <59feam$9kg@news.nevada.edu>, OSCAR SCHLAF wrote:
>
> What they failed to accomplish by war and 
>: open faschism they are now trying to accomplish through their EU. 
>
> The French, Belgians, Dutch, Italians, Spanish, and Portuguese are pushing 
>for the EU just as much as the Germans. the EU isn't exactly a German 
>conspircay plot to control Europe.

 France is the other bully. 

>
>: Crush the European Union with it's German hegemony and tyranny. Isolate 
>: Germany politically and economically. Germany is one the few countries in 
>: Europe that still has political prisoners. Germany is a disgrace on Europe.
>
> Why would a Dane harbor such hatred of Germany still? 

 Germany wants Denmark to adopt German legislation while Germany ,of course,
is not supposed to adopt Danish legislation. Is that a relationship 
between equal nations? Why does Denmark need German legislation in the
first place? Denmark is an old stable democracy that never has had any
problems with radical political movements. Why is Germany not able respect
the history of Denmark as different from Germany? According to the human
rights convention everyone has the right to a nationality, and from this 
follows naturally the right to your own history.

 Denmark does not want German policemen to operate in Denmark, while Germany 
shows great contempt for Denmark by allowing Danish police to operate in all 
of Germany as if Denmark already was a part of Germany. This proves how 
little respect Germany has for the sovereignty of Denmark.


>You think Germans 
>still have designs on Swelsig-Holstein or you still have memories of WWII?

 Hm the EU has made Slesvig an EU region. This means that the Southern part 
of Denmark is supposed to have a different status than the rest of Denmark. 
It was exactly a situation like this which ignited the wars between Denmark 
and the Germans in 1848 and 1864.  


>  Ask the Spanish or the British about political prisoneers by the way. 
>Various IRA & Basques are held by thier governments and could be 
>considered political prisoneers. 

 As far as I know Spain and Britain are only incarcarating people for 
commiting political violence, while Germany is incarcarating people for 
merely expressing political incorrect thoughts in public. This proves that 
Germany is not a real democracy. Even questioning the established 
historiography of WW2 and the expression of doubt in the holocaust is 
considered a thought crime for which you can get a "sentence" to 5 years 
prisons.

>Meanwhile the Italian government is 
>racked with corruption and the Mafia still controls southern ITaly & Sicily.

 The presence of Italy in the EU with all this corruption and crime of it's
government is another good reason for Denmark to leave the EU. 

 Denmark belongs to Scandinavia and not Central Europe like Germany and 
Holland. On the other hand Holland seems rather symphatic, and if the other 
countries of the EU were like that there may be lesser resistence in denmark 
toward the EU. But still Denmark has first and foremost it's place in 
Scandinavia. 

 Another thing is that the problems in Ex-Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union 
teach us that multinational Unions lead to to hatred and disharmony between 
the nationalities. Other good examples are Northern Ireland, Corsica and
the Basque country. Face it - unions suck.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Dec 25 15:52:07 PST 1996
Article: 92879 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 22:10:09 +0100
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In article <32bca638.4759470@193.12.69.3>, you wrote:
>
>>Sorry, but this exactly was what they 
>>did 50 years earlier. I'm sure there were some really bad parasitic
>>jews (no population is totally free of assholes). 

 You cannot compare scientology which is a religious or therapeutical 
movement with a political movement. Scientology is unpolitical.
>
>You are wrong here. If the nazis had been handled the way the German
>government nowadays handles security risks such as Scn, 

 If you in Denmark are calling somebody nazis who are not really nazis
you can be convicted for slander.

> Listen to Germany, they have been through it before, they
>know how to handle suppressive fascistic organisations. 

 They are handling fascistist suppressive organisations with fascist 
suppressive means. And they are very good at it because they are
still behind their thin veneer democracy the good old authoritarian 
Germans. Their democracy is a fascist democracy and therefore not a
real democracy. 

>Scn is a
>fascistic organisation, its members shall be treated like fascists.
>Germany is equally hard to other righwing organisations. Nazism is
>forbidden in the law. The swastika is a forbidden symbol. Neonazism is
>kept under the strictest surveillance.

Yes, Germany is a real ugly authoritarian police state.

>
>When anyone subscribe to elitism, fascism and anti democratic means,
>(nobody can deny that scn is elitistic, fascistic and anti democratic)
>they will be treated like assholes. There is no question in my mind
>that scientologists is a security risk. 

 There are quite a lot of scientologists in my country, and I have never
heard anybody claim that they would be a security risk. In my country
you can only be regarded a security risk if you are planning or actually
commiting violent acts.

>
>The Swedish government, have decided to react in a similar manner as
>Germany have done. 

 In Denmark, Sweden is sometimes nicknamed prohibition-Sweden. The Swedes
think that they can prohibit all problems away. The Swedes are often
described as the Prussians of Scandinavia and their prohibition menthality 
is ridiculed and despised in Denmark.

>That means not only the organisation is criminal, but the ideas, and
>dogmas is equally fascistic and criminal. 

 In a true democracy you cannot make ideas criminal unless they explicit are
so. There can be nothing like thought crimes in a true democracy, only real 
committed criminal acts.

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Dec 25 15:52:09 PST 1996
Article: 92888 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 1996 21:36:27 +0100
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In article <32be1f59.4037701@193.12.69.3>, Anti Cult wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Dec 1996 20:27:24 +0100.
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg).
>From: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten.
>Wrote on the subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted:
>
>>In article <32bd757c.7408284@193.12.69.3>, Anti Cult wrote:
>
>No, of course not. The difference is that other religions doesn't
>claim to be scientific, or commit criminal activities on a grand scale

But if they commit real criminal acts they can easily be dealt with by the 
police and the courts.

>under the disguise of religious freedom. At least not in my country.
>What islam or other religions do, is really not my problem until they
>try to take over my country, or commits crimes in the way scientology
>is doing.

If they have committed crimes, and I am not speaking of thought crimes,
why don't your police arrest them and have them convicted by your courts.

>In my country Christianity is democratic. The church council is
>elected in a democratic manner. I guess that goes for Denmark too. You
>are right about that no religion reflects a democratic ideology, or
>reflected a democratic ideology, at least not in it's founding days.
>Christianity today is IMO probably the most democratic religion.

And the pope is elected democratically by all the members of the catholic
faith?

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Wed Dec 25 15:52:10 PST 1996
Article: 92979 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 13:40:04 +0100
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In article <32BF9965.1F0B@student.uu.se>, Lars Westergren  wrote:
>
>Perhaps you should read up a bit about what the scientologists have
>done before you claim something like this. 

 First of all I am an ex-scientologist myself and I think I know very well
what scientology is about. I left Scientology because I did not want to pay 
all the money to continue. It is now 16 years ago and I was never on staff.
I certainly found the prices on their courses and auditing unacceptable and 
I therefore decided to leave. I was trained as an auditor. I can agree with 
you that much in this organisation is not as it ought to be, but I can't see 
that scientology tech should be worse than other therapies. I have met 
several other ex-scientologists that all claim that they have got good 
results from their time in Scientology. 

Now it is soon Christmastime so I have not so much time to elaborate on this 
but I would have no difficulty in proving that scientology has much to do
with religion.

>And now we can disregard the Swedes because they are all
>authoritarian semi-fascists as everybody know.

Yes you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. 
Forbudssverige (prohibition-Sweden) bah.

>
>You know, your prejudiced, us-and-them, black-and-white mindset
>is very typical for cults. And also for, dare I say it, fascists.

Yes you better look out. There are fascists on every streetcorner these
days and they are all out to get you. ;-)

>
>So if a member of parliament declared that he was a Danish representative
>of an Italian "religion" called Cosa Nostra you wouldnt react? Would
>you have to wait for _him_ to do a criminal act?

So what is the problem? If they have made something criminal, report it to  
the police.

>
>Scientologists are required to believe that they are possessed by
>dead space aliens, sent here by an evil emperor named Xenu! 

 Strange, I never heard anything like that when I was attending courses in
Scientology. On the other hand I never attended the OT courses.

>Their
>allegiance is first and foremost to scientology. 

 When I was there I just wanted the courses and the auditing and I did not 
pay any attention to Scientology as an organisation. Much in this 
organisation was not agreeable to me even then. I do not want to defend
the organisation only it's tech and philosophy.

 However to me scientology is almost the opposite of "fascism". Scientology 
wants to make every individual able to function to their full potential. To 
make every individual as strong as possible instead having weak individuals 
longing for a strong leader as in fascism. 

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 12:24:40 PST 1996
Article: 93056 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:25:49 +0100
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In article <01bbf0dd$041f0100$e7a1dd86@1196-0525>, Herman Beun wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg  wrote in article
><-S4loOev1CFJ065yn@login.dknet.dk>...
>> In article <59feam$9kg@news.nevada.edu>, OSCAR SCHLAF wrote:
>
>> > Why would a Dane harbor such hatred of Germany still?
>
>Because this particular Dane is an ultra-nationalist extremist, 

 I am not an extremist or anything "ultra". I am just against the 
the immigration from the third world and the multiethnic society. 
Furthermore I do not want to see my country becoming a German puppet-state
through the EU. 

>
>"Men Bedstemor, sikken forfærdelig stor Mund, du har." 
>"Det er, for at jeg bedre kan æde dig," sagde Ulven, 
>og i samme Øjeblik sprang den ud af Schengen og slugte den stakkels lille
>Rødhætte. 
>

The above sounds like an anti-EU pasquinade. I translate:

"But grandmother what a terrible big mouth you have" Litte Red Riding Hood 
said.
  "It is because I better can eat you", the wolf said.
and at the very moment it jumped out of the Schengen (In Danish s[ch]engen=
the bed) and swallowed poor Little Red Riding Hood". 

And the big bad wolf? Is that Germany?
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 12:24:41 PST 1996
Article: 93064 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Small and big countries in the EU
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 20:46:40 +0100
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In article <59sko2$8t7@news.nevada.edu>, OSCAR SCHLAF wrote:
>
> If the EU is to succed the EU nations need to adopt some of the same laws.
>It's a bit like the US states. 

But why in the h... is Denmark going adopt a law about a part German history 
in which it has no part?
 
>Go ahead and try and tear apart the EU if you wish, it will only benefit
>the US and the East Asian Countries in terms of economics and technology.

 The East Asian countries are not member of any union either. Neither is 
the USA. Why is it so important that such a union is formed in Europe?
Would Japan be better off if it formed a union with Korea and the Philipines?

>  And not to be insulting but I can't really see any specific Danish national
>identity.  There seems just to be an overall Scandinavian one.

 Denmark has always been an independent country and therefore has an 
independent national identity. The other Scandinavians are no moment in 
doubt about the difference between their national identity and the Danish. 
Norway and Iceland, which for centuries was under Danish rule, are 
particular aware of this.

 Go to Flensborg in the very north of Germany where 22 per cent of the 
population is Danish and nobody will be in doubt about a specific 
Danish nationality. 

>
> "All that is needed for evil men to succed is for good men to do nothing"

 This is a cowardly remark. You are trying to put some of the blame for your
evil acts on innocent outstanders. 

>
> The Danes didn't do a thing to help the Jewish problem, and they didn't 
>do a think to stop Hitler. 

 Denmark is not some guardian of Germany. The Germans were grown up people
able to face the consequences of their acts.

>Denmark stood by along with UK, France, and 
>the rest of Europe, as Hitler gobbled up Austria, Sudetenland, rest of Czech,
>Poland, and Slovakia.

 Denmark was a neutral country with an Lilliputian army. As our present 
minister of foreign affairs said on the celebration of 50 anniversary
of the end WW2: "There was not alternative [to the Danish policy before and
during WW2]".

>  And you might want to check up on how many Danes served in the Nazi SS. 
>It's quiet a few actually. 

Yeah I guess the German army needed a lot of cannon fodder in those days.

> 2 Million Germans were killed in the Gas 
>Chambers you know along with the Jews and others. 

Gee it is the first time I hear the allegetion that Germans were gassed too.

>It included all the German
>clergy you know.

 This is not true. Try to post an article about that to alt.revisionism
and you will find that even the holocaust promoting Nizkor people will 
disagree with you.

>  And don't forget that this all occured 50 some years ago. Germany's 
>leaders today were children then or yet to be born. The leaders from then
>were executed at Nuremburg, died in the war, have died since then, or are 
>in thier 80s today.
>

>
> Boo Hoo, I'm being forced to learn real history. That's what your arguement
>sounds like to me. What if the Germans chose to teach that the Danish Vikings
>were all homos aqnd dressed in Pink Tutus? Wouldn't you be slighty irritated
>and wish Germans to learn real history? 
> 
I would not demand that Germans get punished for such views. That is for 
sure.
>

> But the Germans realize that in the long run to remain economically
>competitve with the US, Canada, and the various East Asian countries that
>the EU is necessary. 

If the EU was only a trade association there would not be so much resistence 
in Denmark. It is the political union which is hardest to swallow.

>And France and the UK have just as much say in the EU
>as Germany.

 Yes the big countries have. Germany is the biggest country and an 
economical heavy weighter. Being closer integrated with the Germany seems 
frightening to most Danes.

>
> Say what? The Danes have spent the majority of thier history repressing 
>the Swedes and Norwegians. 

 Not the Swedes. The Swedes once tried to conquer all Denmark. Norway 
was for centuries in a union with Denmark and later with Sweden. This
is one of the strong reasons why the Norwegians have rejected the EU.
Norway was dominated by Denmark and later Sweden the same way Denmark
will dominated by Germany in a fully integrated the EU.

>And for a time Danes even occupied most of 
>Britain.  

 In fact for a time they ruled over all of Britain. Hm as far as I know 
King Svend who conquered England had to take an oath of fief to the German 
emperor. Even in those days there were a German problem.

>  As for the Germans & Denmark, most Germans didn't show much of an interest
>in Denmark until the rise of the Hanseantic League. And the Hanseantic League
>hardly included all Germans and was in conflict acutally with the Holy Roman
>Emperor, who offical ruled all of Germany & Austria at the time.
>  And Denmark has been attack through the centuries just as much by the 
>Dutch, English, and Swedes as they have the Germans. Considering the Danes
>use go out and plunder the rest of Europe from 700 AD till about 1100 AD,
>The Danes were only getting a taste of thier own medicene in the Middle Ages.
>Most of Denamrk's history since about 1350 has been a long list of struggles
>with the Swedes, not the Germans. Please go re-read your own country's 
>history.
>
Sure but have you never heard about the Danish king Valdemar the first. In 
the beginning of the 13th century he conquered all Northern Germany from
Holsten to Lithuania. 

Denmark was only the country which did something to defy the Hanseatic 
League. Apart from attacking them military and burning Luebeck, their capital down
several times they were harrassed in various ways. They were not allowed to 
have any offices in Denmark. Their ships had to pay a duty for sailing 
through the Danish waters e.g. the Oeresound and much more.

>
> So if Germany did something bad to the Jews during WW2, it is 
>: from a Danish viewpoint, the acts of the enemy.
>
> Danes served in the Nazi SS in WWII, along with many other Non-German 
>Europeans who were recruited by the Germans.

Yeah and Danes fought in the French Legion Etranger in the Algerian war.
Yes there were indeed mercenaries from Denmark in the SS. 

>   And Denmark's mistreatment of Swedes in the 1500s are the acts of Danes
>and not Germans. 

 What about mistreatment of the Danes by the Swedes in the 1600s? Remember
Sweden conquered 3 Danish provinces, Skaane, Halland and Blekinge. The
Danes living there was exposed to a kind genocide which has been compared
to the treatment of the Poles by the Germans during WW2.

>But this all a bit ridiculous, since that is all in the 
>past now.

Sure like the alleged holocaust.

>What did Denmark do to prevent the rise of Hitler? Nothing. 

Denmark had not the slightest obligation to meddle in German affairs.

>What did the 
>Danes do to stop the persecution of Jews by the Germans up till 1940? Nothing

What were they able to do? Nothing.

>  The Danes had a responsibility to thier fellow man to at least launch an
>offical protest to the German government, and try and get the UK and 
>France to stop Hitler. 

Hey even today there are a lot dictatorships that are violating the human
rights and Denmark, and Germany for that matter, do nothing to prevent this. 
And so what? In my opinion this is internal affairs.

>But Denmark didn't do any of these things. 

So what? Denmark is no big power and should pursue a foreign policy that
fits to it's actual size. 

> But don't feel too bad, the rest of Europe didn't do much either. Old 
>Chamberlin of the UK in fact gave in to Hitler and offically recognized
>Nazi claims on Austria and Sudetenland.

 Concerning Austria and Sudetenland it was a mistake that the Versailles 
Treaty did not allow a referendum about the national status of these
areas. In Slesvig there was a referendum in 1920 and Slesvig was divided 
between Denmark and Germany. The Northern part where majority of the 
population was Danish came back to Denmark, while the southern part where the 
majority of population was German, remained in Germany. This settled the 
problem which had ignited two wars between Denmark and the Germans. A 
referendum could have done the same in Sudenland, Danzig and the borderland 
between Poland and Germany.
>
>
> 2 million Germans were gased along with those JEws, and many of those 
>Jews were German jews and thier ancestors had lived in Germany for centuries.
> And by the way check up on Danish misdeeds in Sweden during the various
>wars. I have relatives from Malmo, and they tells me the Danes are still 
>disliked there, despite close to 300 years. 

 I do not think that the Danes are disliked in this old Danish province.
People from these parts of Sweden seem always willing to understand
Danish while this is not often case in the real Sweden.

>:  Hm the chief of this police is a German as far as I know.
>
> Yea and the head of the EU is in Belgium not Germany. Oh no does that
>mean it's the evil Belgians that actually control the EU? :)

But Belgium is a small country and therefore does not appear that menacing.

>
> Yea and a British offical made an obnoxius remark about Kohl. 

 He has probably deserved that the way he behaves.  Everytime you read
or see something about the EU in the massmedia it is Kohl and the French
all the time. You never hear much of what the e.g. the Portugese, the
Dutch or the Irish think. It is always Germany and France trying to push 
the other nations.

> You see the Danish police union does not want the
>: bordercontrol abandoned
>
> Why still paranoid that the Germans might launch an attack or something?
> and does not want the presence of German police
>: in Denmark at all.

The Germans should never be granted any authority in Denmark. 

>
> Well I'm sure some Germans aren't gonna like Dutch, French, and British
>police types in Germany but it's gonna happen.
>

>
> Under pressure the Danish Justice Department has agreed
>: that German police can operate up to 15 kilometres inside Denmark but
>: only under the leadership of Danish police.
>
> And if there's no Danish police available at the time, Criminals 
>crossing in to Denmark should be just allowed to escape right? Kinda like
>that prison break awhile back. :) 
>
 The border controlposts should remain, and there will be no problems. It is 
totally idiotic to remove them. Furthermore the Germans should have their 
passports checked before they are allowed to enter Denmark. This will make 
sure that they are aware that they are guests in a foreign country. Otherwise
tensions could arise.
> 
>:  Denmark has the highest living standard of all the EU countries and do
>: not need any EU money. To me the EU can go to hell and stay there.
>
> Actually Luxembourg has the highest standard of living among EU countries.
>Guess it helps to have small populations.
>  Germany, France, Italy and the UK by the way take in vast amounts of 
>immigrants, perhaps if Denmark would be as kind to, you might not have as 
>high a living standard. 

 Yes this is very stupid to flod your country with third world immigrants.
Unfortunately Denmark is teeming with immigrants and refugees from
the third world too. This is a mistake that certainly must be undone some 
day.

> Switzerland. It has 4 seperate languages, 2 main religious groups, and 
> Three different ethnic groups, yet it has been one country for 
> close to 500 years, with no civil wars or major ethnic unrest.            

 But they share a common Swiss national identity. It was the German speaking
Swiss people themselves that chose to break away for some reasons from
the rest of Germany.

> Or I could bring up Canada, despite being much like the US, with 
> with people of several ethnic backgrounds, Canada is still a relativly
> calm nation.

There are still the question about Quebec.

>
> The only way to peace and harmony is to create
>: ethnic homogenous countries.
>
> Japan had a ethnic homogenous culture, Where did it lead them? To 
>colonialistic attitudes and war that's where. 

This was hardly due to their homogeneity.

> The country of Haiti is rather homogenous, all French speaking Blacks,
>yet thier country is in shambles.

 All Black countries seem more and less like Haiti. In those Black countries
where there is ethnic heterogeneity (like Rwanda) there are often severe 
tensions.

>  The country of Chile is a rather homogenous society. Yet Chile was racked
>with civil wars, mass extermination commited by death squads, and ruthless
>dictators, and a laughable economy. 

 The population of Chile is a mixture of Europeans and Red Indians, and
this explains a lot.
>
> Denmark used to control Norway, Sweden, Iceland, and Greenland. Denmark
>use to be aggressive nationalists. 

 Don't forget Holsten with it's all German population. Holsten was under the 
Danish crown until 1864.

 Denmark in those day was rather multi-national than national. When modern
nationalism began to grow in the beginning of the 19th century the Danish
empire began to crumble and at last there were only the ethnic Denmark left
with Greenland and the Faroe Islands.

>
> Scotland is just as large as England, 

Since when? 

>please re-check your geography.
>Geographic size isn't the main factor in the taking over other nations
>by the way.  Look at Indonesia, the small nation of the NEtherlands with 
>a small population managed to control a group of islands 25 times large 
>then thier country and all the way around the world for close to 350 years.
>  France manages to control about 1/3 of Africa for around 150 years. Despite
>the size and population of it.

But only for a while, and then nationalism arised with it's urge for 
independence and freedom.

> I am not writing
>: all this because I "hate" Germany but rather because I like the indepence
>: of Denmark which certainly will be mashed by the bigger nations if the
>: integration in the EU continues.
>
> I've read about these same fears, various US states had them some 200
>years ago. 

 This is very stupid. In the USA people are the same americans whether they
live in e.g. Texas or Oklahoma. As I use to say whem I am in America: 
"I have no more in common with a Frenchman than an American". My question to 
you is, what do you as a German have in common with an Irishman or a 
Portuguese than you do not have in common with an American?

The Americans have all the same culture and language all over the 
union. In the USA it is rather things like race which are causing tensions.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 12:24:42 PST 1996
Article: 93083 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 1996 11:45:38 +0100
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In article , Martin Paegert wrote:
>Ole Kreiberg (olk@login.dknet.dk) wrote:
>
>> Germany wants Denmark to adopt German legislation ...
>
>It does not. I am quite sure you know that. By the way: what legislation
>exactly do you have in mind ?  Aktiengesetz, Buergerliches Gesetzbuch,
>Rentengesetz ?  
>
 According to this Schengen treaty Germany demands that the other members
change their laws to suit Germany. 

 Within the EU Germany has demanded that Denmark adopts the same 
legislation as Germany concerning the supression of dissident viewpoints on 
WW2. This is only one example on infringement on the sovereignty of
Denmark by Germany.

>
>> According to the human rights convention everyone has the right to a 
>> nationality, and from this follows naturally the right to your own history.
>
>No, Ole. Not a right to nationality 

Every national group has the right to express it's own national identity.

>but a right to citizenship in terms of
>that the latter must not been withdrawn. Take yourself a minute and think
>about what "right to own history" does mean, 

 To me it means the right to identify myself with Danish history in all 
relation to Germany. That means that I, as a Dane, have no part in in the 
German collective guilt for the holocaust. I do not owe the Jews
anything and can therefore do exactly what I want with that piece of 
*German* history. I can forget it, I can deny it, I can shove up my a..s or
can chose to believe in it, and the German government has no right to dictate 
me anything through their EU. Furthermore I have the right to identify myself
with the Danish history and pay respect to the all those Danes who 
sacrified their lives in combat to preserve the freedom and sovereignty of 
their country against Germany all the way through more than thousand of 
years history. So if Germany did something bad to the Jews during WW2, it is 
>from  a Danish viewpoint, the acts of the enemy. Trying to say that the Danes 
have the slightest responsibilities for those acts must be ragarded as 
defamation of the Danish people (Volkverhetzung). The only thing Danes can 
learn from the holocaust is how the Germans are when they are worst 
and how good it is that Danes are not like that and how important it is to 
keep out of the EU and the Schengen in order to avoid Germany.

 Trying to sell Denmark to the Germans through the EU should be regarded
high treason.

>especially if that term does
>make sense at all. If you can find any sense in it, let me know. To me
>it's more as if someone would talk about "the right of a stone to fall
>down".
>
>
>> ... while Germany shows great contempt for Denmark by allowing Danish 
>> police to operate in all of Germany as if Denmark already was a part of 
>> Germany. 
>
>Shall we take that literally ?  A allowing to operate the police of B
>within A does mean that according to A B is a part of A ?  
>
>Nevertheless it is false. What you are talking about is Europol which
>should have the right to operate within the EU. 

 For what pupose do we need an Europol? What exactly is it able to do that 
the Danish police is not able to. Again it is this agressive Helmuth Kohl 
that is in forefront this time pushing for a European FBI. 

>But Europol is no German
>police but a European one.
>
 Hm the chief of this police is a German as far as I know. Anyway a 
highranking "Europol" German police officer recently made obnoxious 
remarks about Denmark. You see the Danish police union does not want the
bordercontrol abandoned and does not want the presence of German police
in Denmark at all. Under pressure the Danish Justice Department has agreed
that German police can operate up to 15 kilometres inside Denmark but
only under the leadership of Danish police. E.g. a German police car is
permitted to follow a suspect over the Danish-German border, but it must
have a Danish policecar to drive in front of it and German police will
not be allowed to make any arrest in Denmark. This German Europol officer
made obnoxious remarks about this generous and reasonable offer.
>
>> Hm the EU has made Slesvig an EU region. This means that the Southern part 
>> of Denmark is supposed to have a different status than the rest of Denmark. 
>
>A region of special interest. That does mean that EU-money is flowing to
>Slesvig in order to aid it economically. 

 Denmark has the highest living standard of all the EU countries and do
not need any EU money. To me the EU can go to hell and stay there.

>Anyhow, no Danish Company is
>forced to get financial aid from the EU. So, just go and tell Companies as
>well as politician that should make use of the EU regional fund. 
>
 The problem is that the whole of Denmark was supposed to be a region. That
is what the our politicians have promised us anyway.
>
>>  Another thing is that the problems in Ex-Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union 
>> teach us that multinational Unions lead to to hatred and disharmony between 
>> the nationalities. 
>
>No. They teach that nationalists spread hatred and disharmony up to war.
>-- 
>
 Nationalism and nationalists are only the symptoms and not the cause of 
those problems which naturally and spontanously arise in multinational or
multiethnic societies. The only way to peace and harmony is to create
ethnic homogenous countries. Germany may have had some bad experience with
aggressive nationalism so that is a problem of Germany. In small countries 
like Denmark nationalism tend to be defensive only. Like bigger fish tend
to swallow smaller fish so bigger countries tend to swallow smaller 
countries. Just take a look at the sad fate of Scotland, Corsica, the Basque 
land, Quebec etc. and you will understand what I mean. I am not writing
all this because I "hate" Germany but rather because I like the indepence
of Denmark which certainly will be mashed by the bigger nations if the
integration in the EU continues.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 12:24:43 PST 1996
Article: 93093 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Small and big countries in the EU
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:46:46 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>Many mentally ill and retarded Germans were murdered in 
>the so-called "euthanasia" operation (for instance in
>Hadamar and Hartheim). 

But hardly 2 million as claimed by Oscar.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 12:24:43 PST 1996
Article: 93094 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Small and big countries in the EU
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:28:40 +0100
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In article <09lmoOev10YR065yn@login.dknet.dk>, Ole Kreiberg wrote:

Errata:
>
> Denmark was a neutral country with an Lilliputian army. As our present 
>minister of foreign affairs said on the celebration of 50 anniversary
>of the end WW2: "There was not alternative [to the Danish policy before and
                            ^^^
>during WW2]".

"There was no alternative [to the Danish policy before and during WW2]

>>
>Sure but have you never heard about the Danish king Valdemar the first.  
                                                                  ^^^^^
Valdemar the second.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Fri Dec 27 15:32:45 PST 1996
Article: 93115 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:32:53 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:222296 comp.org.eff.talk:72777 soc.culture.german:93115

In article <32c03acd.7937541@193.12.69.3>, Anti-Cult wrote:
>
>>In article <32BF9965.1F0B@student.uu.se>, Lars Westergren  wrote:
>
> The result that
>you have been getting from scn so-called tech, is false memories and
>implanted images. After 16-years, you have not realised that yet.
>There is nothing valuable in scn. It's all crap. You are a victim of
>the famous sugar pill effect. (placebo)
>
Hm how do you determine a false religious belief from a true one? How can 
you know that Christian teachings about heaven and hell are not false? Have
you ever been to one of these places, or do you know of others that have.
Have you ever met God? How can you know for certain whether or not God is a 
hoax?

>>>Scientologists are required to believe that they are possessed by
>>>dead space aliens, sent here by an evil emperor named Xenu! 

So what? What about Moses that was able to divide the Red Sea or Jesus
that was able to walk on the water and make stone into bread? 

>
>Of course you didn't here that. You think they would tell you that
>before they had you totally indoctrinated in the scn view of the
>universe? Anyhow, it seems as if you are able to buy that crap now.
>The indoctrination process have continued for 16 years after you left.
>>

 I have not paid any interest to Scientology since I left. If their price
policy had been reasonable I had taken the whole bridge and I would have
been able to form my own opinion. I do not need the German government
to dictate to me what to think about this and that through the EU. The German
government is the biggest threat to free speech and free thinking in Europe.
Scientology may be authoritarian in many respect but so is the German 
government, however with the difference that the German government
has much more power and is ruthless enough to use that power through it's
EU against the freedom in other European countries. 

>The so-called tech, and the so-called philosophy _is_ the
>organisation. The organisation is built from the fascistic tech.

Nonsense the tech has absolutely nothing to do with fascism.

>Arian-Clear-OT. 

 I have never heard scientologists using to word "Aryan" or speaking about
psychological and intellectual differences between the different human
races.

>You are dreaming. Scientology is an illusion. 

Is fascism an illusion too?

>Engrams does not exist. OT abilities does not exist. 

Can you prove it?

>Xenu and BT's is only creations of a drug
>addict. Hubbard was actually a drug addict, 

And which evidence do you have for that allegation?

> Function on full potential you say. The human being, is
>functioning on the very potential he/ she was intended to have. It is
>nothing more there. 

Hm you are suggesting that human beings have certain inborn and natural
capabilities. This sound fascist or at least racialist too me. 

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Dec 28 12:34:53 PST 1996
Article: 93149 of soc.culture.german
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Small and big countries in the EU
Followup-To: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:16:11 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>I am not sure as to how many non-Jewish Germans died
>in the concentration camps, after being arrested for
>various reasons, mainly political.
>
Well the former East-German leaders Walther Ulbrecht and Honnecker were
incarcarated during the whole Nazi-era. When they came out after more 
than ten years they were alive and kicking enough to raise to become
head of state in DDR. They were already prominent communist in those days. 
Why weren't they shot, "gassed" or worked and starved to death? 

[Followups set to alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german]
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Dec 28 15:24:06 PST 1996
Article: 89596 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeiken is distorting things again
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 22:56:12 +0100
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In article <19961228132200.IAA09818@ladder01.news.aol.com>, Fafner13 wrote:
>
>I don't know why you bother to respond to all of this--he is trying to put
>you on the defensive.

 Perhaps, but it started with him calling me a nazi, because I refuse to
believe in the holocaust story. Then I told him that Hitler said several 
times that national socialism knows only Germany and is not meant for 
export. Then he tried to "prove" that I might really be an ethnic German. 
Not that I have anything personal against individual Germans but I do not 
like anyone to get the impression that I am one.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sat Dec 28 15:24:07 PST 1996
Article: 89599 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: There was no decision
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 1996 23:20:29 +0100
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:89599 soc.culture.german:93157

In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>And now, you'll ask, if there was a decision to kill all Jews,
>why did some survive? The answer to that one is simple: the
>Nazis didn't have enough time to kill all of them.
>
>
Or there was simply no decision to kill them in the first place.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec 29 14:33:09 PST 1996
Article: 89859 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Edeiken is distorting things again
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:21:58 +0100
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In article <5a3gml$uh@news.enter.net>, Yale F. Edeiken wrote:
>
>       He does becasue he can't answer a straight question.  When I gave a 
>post of nazi boy's to a Dane I know to get her take on it, she laughed and told me 
>that the name was German.

 Maybe she has lived so long in the USA that she has begun to experience
things like the Americans. My name may sound German to an American. I can
assure you that I have never been taken for a German in Denmark.
>
>       When asked about it he has told several conflicting stories and some 
>absolute nonsense.
>
 You have no proof for your allegation other that my name sounds German to
Americans. I think that the "berg" in my name would sound Jewish as well
in the ears of English Speaking people. 

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Sun Dec 29 23:00:14 PST 1996
Article: 89887 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:21:55 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>We are recently noticing a fascinating new trend in "Holocaust
>revisionism": since "revisionists" can no longer claim that
>all the documents are forgeries, or that the witnesses to the
>Holocaust were "tortured" etc, they have started to dismiss all
>the testimonies by claiming that all the witnesses (Jews,
>Germans, never mind) were insane. Maybe you will suggest
>to extent this to claim that all the Nazis, who authored
>documents such as the above, were insane?

 You are trying to belittle revisionism. If revisionism really was that
stupid as you are trying to make it, how come that the French and the German
government and parliament fear it so much that they have taken so drastic 
steps as to have people thrown in jail for expressing revisionist views in 
public. This proves that either must the revisionists have some very strong 
and dangerous views or the members of governments and parliaments must be 
some whimps. A Frenchmen in soc.culture.french once told me that it was 
really because the French government and parliament feared to be called 
anti-semites that they yielded to pressure from some minority groups.  
>
>Or maybe, instead, you'll grow up? BTW, if it's not too
>personal a question, how old are you? I will understand
>if you don't want to reply; I'm just curious.
>
 Hm when I was younger I used to believe in holocaust. After I heard that the
French government had made revisionist views thought crimes I became very
curious to take a closer look at those, according to French politicians, very
dangerous views. I am not really the one you should mock but rather the 
silly French politicians who may wet their pants by just hearing the 
names of such revisionists as professor Faurisson. What are they so afraid 
of if revionism was pure nonsens+ 
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 30 10:00:47 PST 1996
Article: 90019 of alt.revisionism
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From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:13:14 +0100
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In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>[Followup = alt.revisionism]
>
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
># You are trying to belittle revisionism.
>
>Me? Just read this group. All "revisionists" here constantly
>lie through their teeth, every day. 

 And anti-revisionists never lies. Is that what you are trying to tell me?
You can trust all the wild tales about German cruelty during WW2. The
Allies could never dream about letting just one small propaganda lie
out or falsify some the documents which you always are referring to.
The Germans were black devils and the Allies were white angels.

>Nearly all of them are
>blatant Nazis and antisemites; expressions like "kike filth",
>"Jewish scum", etc, are so common here that hardly anyone
>bothers to comment on them anymore.

 I have a posting by you on my harddisc, where you call me a nazi-swine
and others where you use other invectives. In alt.revisionism there is
an antirevisonist called Mark van Alstine that is even worth.

>
>I can, very easily, post a list of numerous blatant lies and
>logical fallacies put forward by "revisionists". 

 On the other hand the revisionists can do the same about the established
historiography of the fate of the Jews in the German occupied Europe.

>
>So, do I think that "Holocaust revisionism" is dangerous? Most
>probably, no; it isn't going anywhere. It failed. 

 Like communism. You say one must remember the "holocaust" because
else there will be a danger that it will happen again. What about communism?
More people died in communist camps than in nazi camps. Why isn't there
any danger that communism will happen again. There have always been many
more communists than nazis in my country and all other countries except
Germany. 

>It attracts
>only a small number of hard-core Nazis and antisemites, and
>possibly some freaks, although these seem to be a small group
>among the "revisionists". The "revisionist" arguments are
>becoming more and more wacky and stupid every year. And,
>moreover, the public is bored with it. The sensation is
>gone. It's just "oh, no, it's those crazy a**holes who say
>there was no Holocaust".

 Tell me then why the EU are pressuring it's member nations to make 
a legislation that makes it possible to incarcarate people that express
revisionist viewpoints in public.

>
>Look at what "revisionism" led to. It led to, among other
>things, the Nizkor project. One of the main goals of
>Nizkor is Holocaust documentation, and I am proud of
>having contributed to this goal. Thus, as a direct result
>of "revisionism", a rather large amount of Holocaust
>documentation - texts, photographs, scans of documents,
>recordings - is a few mouse clicks away from millions
>of people. In the past, people would have to go to a
>library and search for it. No more. It's right there
>on your screen. Because of "revisionism", more people
>will know more about the Holocaust. No question about it.

 I admit that Nizkor project is a more rational and efficient way to combat
revisionism than the legislation of Funny France and Crazy STASI Germany.
By putting people in prison for expressing dissident views on the holocaust,
Germany has only attained to expose to the world that the ruthless and
authoritarian German mentality that expressed itself through nazism 5 
decades ago has not changed much. Today the Germans are ruthless and 
authoritarian "democrats". Their "democracy" is a caricature of a true 
democracy. 

>we are not a better people than we were 50 years ago. The
>only thing we can say is that we are more knowledgeable.
>And that is our hope.
>
What do mean by "we". The Germans were the only responsible for nazism. 
How dare you defame Non-German people.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 30 10:59:38 PST 1996
Article: 93207 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:49:15 +0100
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Lines: 88
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: 
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <32c03acd.7937541@193.12.69.3>  <32c5e1dd.6965258@193.12.69.3>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:222716 comp.org.eff.talk:72817 soc.culture.german:93207

In article <32c5e1dd.6965258@193.12.69.3>, Anti-Cult wrote:

>>So what? What about Moses that was able to divide the Red Sea or Jesus
>>that was able to walk on the water and make stone into bread? 
>
>Do you really think that happened?
>>

 If it did not happen Christianity must be deceiving it's followers the
same way as you are accusing Scientology of doing, and christianity must 
therefore be prohibited in Germany.

>  Well my friend, you are
>truly a good representative for the church. Your homepage at
>http://login.dknet.dk/~olk   surely is  an interesting site. It's a
>revisionistic site, you support holocaust deniers and white supremacy
>trash.
>
 I support those that are persecuted by the evil German government.
I even support that extreme German leftwinged group called Radikal or
those East German border guards who were convicted by a German Kangaroo
court for something they did fully legal within the jurisdiction of 
another country.

>You my friend are supporting not only the criminal organisation of
>Scientology, on top of that you are a racist, you do want to throw out
>all foreigners from your country, all according to your homepage. You
>know, it's your bad luck that Swedes easily reads and understand
>danish. 

 I am very proud of my propasal for creating ethnic homogeneity. I have 
posted it several times in an English translation to newsgroups as 
alt.politics.nationalism.white and alt.politics.white.power.

>You are linking to the worst sites on this planet. 
                        ^^^^^
This is your opinion - not mine.¨

>You are
>part of one of the biggest crimes anyone can be a part of. The crime
>is to falsify History. 

 Revisionism is not falsifying history. Revisionism is brining history in
accordance with facts and truth. Do not listen to the vile propaganda of 
the masochist German government. The German government is commiting treason 
to it's own people.


>The coming generations, is not going to be kind to people like you. 

 What will be done to us? Will we be send to concentration camps together 
with scientologists and other dissidents.

>When the
>final history of this planet is written, you will be included in the
>part that talks about crimes and criminal behaviours

You are talking of "this planet". This sounds like Scientology terms to me.
>
>>Is fascism an illusion too?
>
>No, you have proven that facism and scientology goes hand in hand.

 I am not a fascist. I just want restore the ethnic homogeneity of my 
country. I do not wish to change the political system into a dictatorship.

>Many people that knew the Hub, and were close to him have testified
>that he was a heavy drug abuser.

 It is strange because Scientologists have always been obsessed with curing
real or imagined drug problems. Have you heard about their drug rundowns etc.
>
>Go back to your party, the  Nationalpartiet Danmark/ The Danish
>National Party.  [ images coming into my mind, five letters
>show up: NSDAP] 

 The National party of Denmark (NPD) is not a fascist party. The only way
it deviates from the other parliamentarian parties is by it's policy
for a general repatriation of those that ethnic and culturally are not
a part of Europe.


Happy ethnic homogeneity to every country,

from

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 30 10:59:39 PST 1996
Article: 93212 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:21:55 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 34
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:89887 soc.culture.german:93212

In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>
>We are recently noticing a fascinating new trend in "Holocaust
>revisionism": since "revisionists" can no longer claim that
>all the documents are forgeries, or that the witnesses to the
>Holocaust were "tortured" etc, they have started to dismiss all
>the testimonies by claiming that all the witnesses (Jews,
>Germans, never mind) were insane. Maybe you will suggest
>to extent this to claim that all the Nazis, who authored
>documents such as the above, were insane?

 You are trying to belittle revisionism. If revisionism really was that
stupid as you are trying to make it, how come that the French and the German
government and parliament fear it so much that they have taken so drastic 
steps as to have people thrown in jail for expressing revisionist views in 
public. This proves that either must the revisionists have some very strong 
and dangerous views or the members of governments and parliaments must be 
some whimps. A Frenchmen in soc.culture.french once told me that it was 
really because the French government and parliament feared to be called 
anti-semites that they yielded to pressure from some minority groups.  
>
>Or maybe, instead, you'll grow up? BTW, if it's not too
>personal a question, how old are you? I will understand
>if you don't want to reply; I'm just curious.
>
 Hm when I was younger I used to believe in holocaust. After I heard that the
French government had made revisionist views thought crimes I became very
curious to take a closer look at those, according to French politicians, very
dangerous views. I am not really the one you should mock but rather the 
silly French politicians who may wet their pants by just hearing the 
names of such revisionists as professor Faurisson. What are they so afraid 
of if revionism was pure nonsens+ 
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Mon Dec 30 10:59:39 PST 1996
Article: 93214 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.history,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: Small and big countries in the EU
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:58:10 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <2UlnoOev1iLR065yn@login.dknet.dk>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:11314 soc.culture.german:93214

In article <32c59d81.11863@nntp.server.uni-frankfurt.de>, Oliver Weber wrote:
>
>Ulbricht was in France between 1933 and 1938 and then in Moscow, he
>came back in 1945 (April 29th 1945, to be precise). Honecker, on the
>other hand, was arrested in 1935 and imprisoned in a regular prison,
>not a KZ. 

 There were Danes in both German KZ and prisons and from them I can 
understand that the conditions in the prisons were just as bad
as in the KZ.

 I have heard that many politicians survived imprisonment in e.g. 
Dachau and those that were interned there before the war until the
end speak about how the food gradually become worse and more
meagre toward the end of the war.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec 31 09:10:37 PST 1996
Article: 90174 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sn.no!nntp.uio.no!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: There was no decision
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:12:25 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 46
Message-ID: 
References:  <3yknoOev18mC065yn@login.dknet.dk>   
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:90174 soc.culture.german:93269

In article , Daniel Keren wrote:
>[Followup-To: alt.revisionism]
>
>olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg) writes:
>
># And anti-revisionists never lies. Is that what you are trying
># to tell me?
>
>You tell me. Don't throw accusations. Show examples. Show that
>it is a common technique, as with "revisionists".

 Unfortunately most of these revisionists are not professional historians or 
the like and may need the skills to work with this matter in a professional 
manner. This goes for most of the noisy holocausters too. The internet 
is not reserved for professional people and the consequence is that a lot of
contradictions and nonsens occur form *all* sides. 

>
># I have a posting by you on my harddisc, where you call me
># a nazi-swine.
>
>Perhaps as a response to your suggestion to arrest and deport
>Danish citizens because you don't like the color of their skin?

 Only those that refuse to leave voluntarily.

>
>Sorry, but many people will call you worse than what I called
>you. I saw the reactions to your articles on soc.culture.nordic.

 I cannot remember any partiicular strong reaction. 
>
># What do mean by "we". The Germans were the only responsible
># for nazism. How dare you defame Non-German people.
>
>I meant in general. The Holocaust wasn't the only atrocity in
>this century. And no nation is immune.
>
 Hm but it is seems that the holocaust is the only one that is important
to remember. By giving this atrocity preference you are spitting on 
the graves of victims of the other atrocities which far outnumbers the
victims of the alleged holocaust. Remember that more people died in
communist camp than in nazi camps, even according to the established 
historiography.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec 31 13:35:20 PST 1996
Article: 93253 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!node2.frontiernet.net!usenet.logical.net!dciteleport.com!feed1.news.erols.com!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: The Trial against the former East German borderguards
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:45:04 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 48
Message-ID: 
References:  
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk

In article , Holger Skok wrote:
>
>The standards applied to the border guards who have shot to
>kill a person attempting to flee from East Germany are those
>of the Nuremberg trials. 

The Nuremberg trials were Kangaroo justice?

>They could have shot into the air or
>missed intentionally. 

They had to do what they were ordered to do.

> But those who were sentenced had intended to kill,

 But they only killed those who violated the law. Every citizens of the DDR
knew that it was illegal to cross the border and that the the border guards
had order to shoot and kill if necessary. 

>violating internationally agreed upon human rights, which
>the GDR had promised to observe. 

 Who care about some far fetched international human rights? The did not
violate any DDR laws and this is what counts. They even prevented some
citizens from breaking the law by shooting at them.

>The policy of attempting
>to kill "Republikfluechtlinge" was in open violation of the
>constitution of the GDR, too.

 If DDR did not do something drastic there might have been a danger that 
even more citizens would have left the country. I do not in any way 
symphatize with the former DDR and it's laws. I am just trying to determine 
whether these subordinates were violating any laws under the jurisdiction in
which they lived. I say that they only did what their superiors ordered
them to do. If their directives were illegal according to the DDR 
legislation the culprits must have been those who wrote the directives.
Subordinated borderguards are not supposed to have law degrees, and they
were thus acting in good faith.

>So, the border guards in question could have respected the
>human rights of those they shot, but they chose not to. 

 Were the human rights in general respected in the former communist 
countries?  I say no. So why should these guys respect them when their
society in general did not respect them.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec 31 13:35:21 PST 1996
Article: 93263 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.europe,soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,soc.history,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:17:24 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
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References:  <01bbf634$e71d25c0$e7a1dd86@1196-0525>
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.europe:52174 soc.culture.netherlands:42037 soc.culture.german:93263 soc.history:11330 talk.politics.european-union:7836

In article <01bbf634$e71d25c0$e7a1dd86@1196-0525>, Herman Beun wrote:
>
>Ole Kreiberg  wrote in article
>
>> The above sounds like an anti-EU pasquinade.
>
>One can be critical without being anti. 

 I am not just critical. I am fully against the EU. 50 per cent of the Danes
are against the EU. The other half is mostly in favour because they 
believe it will be harmful for the economy if Denmark left. 

>
>
>Did Germany "jump out of Schengen"? 

 The way I understand this, Germany was hiding in the bed (the Schengen)
dressed as the EU in order to jump out and eat Denmark (that is incoperating 
it in Germany more or less). 

>No, Germany is very cooperative and democratic in EU matters. 

 Hm Holland seems to be the place the Germans are turning to when they
need to have arses kissed. ;-)

--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec 31 13:35:22 PST 1996
Article: 93264 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!insync!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.netherlands,soc.culture.german,talk.politics.european-union
Subject: Re: Dutch Police cooperate with German Fascists
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:02:28 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 29
Message-ID: 
References:  
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Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.netherlands:42038 soc.culture.german:93264 talk.politics.european-union:7837

In article , Holger Skok wrote:
>
>Oh no, Mr. Kreiberg, you aren't extremist or anything "ultra". 
>It is of course quite normal to demand the installation of
>concentration camps for anybody living in Denmark you
>pronounce a non-ethnic Dane. Camps on an uninhabited 
>Danish island, not too comfortable, so the inmates would
>be inclined to take your offer of dumping them in their
>home-country (while YOU define what that "home" is). 
>It is not in any way extremist, to demand that those you
>call non-ethnic Danes (whatever that is)  be stripped
>of their citizenship and forcibly rounded up and driven
>out of Denmark. 

 No the Nationalparty Denmark and the Joint List Against Immigration
state that they are consistent not "extreme" or "ultra". We just want
a general repatriation. Only those parties and groups that are in favour
of a general repatriation can join the List.

>
>Neither is it "anything 'ultra'" to deny that the Holocaust
>has ever happened while quoting the likes of Lueftl and
>Leuchter. 

 Lueftl and Leuchter are unpolitical persons. The reason the Austrians gave
up prosecuting Lueftl for thought crimes was that he was not affiliated 
with any political groups or had expressed anything political.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk


From olk@login.dknet.dk Tue Dec 31 13:35:23 PST 1996
Article: 93270 of soc.culture.german
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!eru.mt.luth.se!news-stkh.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!sn.no!nntp.uio.no!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!news1.tele.dk!cph-1.news.DK.net!dkuug!dknet!usenet
From: olk@login.dknet.dk (Ole Kreiberg)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology,comp.org.eff.talk,nl.scientology,soc.culture.german
Subject: Re: German Scientologists ousted
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 1996 11:34:57 +0100
Organization: DKnet / EUnet Denmark - Login Tjenesten
Lines: 41
Distribution: inet
Message-ID: 
References: <199612200104.RAA14620@mailmasher.com> <32bd757c.7408284@193.12.69.3>  <32be1f59.4037701@193.12.69.3>  <59onn6$suv@news00.btx.dtag.de>
NNTP-Posting-Host: login.dknet.dk
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.religion.scientology:223057 comp.org.eff.talk:72843 soc.culture.german:93270

In article <59onn6$suv@news00.btx.dtag.de>, Tobias Erichsen wrote:
>
>Yep... every single day the thought-police comes in to have an eeg
>of my brain taken.  I have to work out in front of a huge two-way
>television-screen - and I cross my arms above my head when greeting
>the big brother ;-)

Yaeh the great European Emperor Helmuth I (Kohl) the visionary and his 
Verfassungschutz STASIS. ;-)

>> you can only be regarded a security risk if you are planning or
>> actually commiting violent acts.                    ^^^^^^^^
>
>>  In a true democracy you cannot make ideas criminal unless they explicit are
>> so. There can be nothing like thought crimes in a true democracy, only 
>
>A little above you wrote that people can be prosecuted because they
>are planning a crime.  This sounds pretty much like "thought crimes"
>
If you are planning *real* crimes such as terrorist acts you may be 
prosecuted if there are strong enough evidence such as concealed
weapons or explosives. However I do not have a law degree and cannot
tell you the exact criteria. One thing is for certain I have never heard
that the Scientology in Denmark has been accused for having commited or 
planned any crimes.
>
>I for my person can happily live in Germany 

 Sure because you are a German. You have the German culture, mentality,
language and identify yourself with the history of Germany. How would
you like to live next door to a country on the size of Russia and with
a population of one billion inhabitants? Wouldn't a further integration 
with that country be a scaring perspective to you?

>- and if you have a problem
>with Germany & Denmark both being in the EU, vote for someone who
>will get Denmark out of the EU.

I do that already.
--
Ole Kreiberg  http://login.dknet.dk/~olk



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