Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/knoll.werner/2001/knoll.0111
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:29 EST 2001
Article: 997230 of alt.revisionism
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Message-ID: <3BE19464.DF67C4D2@telus.net>
From: Werner Knoll
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Subject: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
References: <9q5rb701l68@drn.newsguy.com> <9rb0o3$te2$1@news.tht.net> <3BD9942E.F4EAFE66@telus.net> <3BDA1A6B.E56E915E@telus.net> <3BDAE227.C2DD69CB@telus.net> <3BDB065E.C9FFA64B@telus.net> <3BDB0D87.E9E98397@telus.net> <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net> <3BDB43A4.4CF0D1BE@earthlink.net> <3BDF1D90.DB6A54C9@earthlink.net> <3BDF8B6F.2064FDB0@telus.net> <3BE0D053.D053E3C5@telus.net> <3BE0D766.5487CD05@telus.net> <3be0f103@nubby2.>
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He will be hounded by misfits like Jeffrey G. Brown who is working as a
enforcer for jewish Organizations by using tactics like this:
***********************************************************
Subject: Jeffrey G. Brown
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:07:34 -0800
From: Werner Knoll
To: abuse@telus.net
As you can see on the data I am supplying it is Jeffrey G Brown who is
the agressor in going after me for the last week in order to lose my
privileges with my service provider.
Jeffrey G Brown and Ken McVay are supporter of Nizkor/Nabla whose sole
purpose it is to fight for Jewish organisations like like B'nai Brith
who was instrumental to Cut Klatt's phone in Oliver BC. Since last night
most of my posting have been "REPOSTED" as you can the at the end of
this e -mail. Why have Brown's postings not "REPOSTED"
A answer please what you will do before I go to the news media!
Werner Knoll
*************************************************************
Subject: Re: 1st Warning Newsgroup SPAM - "telus.net account: xxxxxxx
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 13:17:16 -0800
From: Werner Knoll
To: PLAnet BC Abuse
References:
1
I check up in deja.com and the only thing I could come up with is a Ken
McVay who is working on behalf of a major Jewish Organization here in
Canada and a gentlemen in de.soc.politik.misc in Germany.
Here you can see a International organization working hard to get
everybody off the air who is asking Questions.
Vancouver Province Sunday, March 29, 1998
Cut Klatt's phone says B'nai Brith
Tired of waiting for the authority to pull the plug on an Internet
service used by racists and hate - mongers, B'nai Brith is taking things
into its own hands.
The human rights organization will meet tomorrow with BC Tel to try to
persuade it to cut the phone line to the Fairview Technologies Center in
Oliver.
"We are going to ask them to cut Fairview off, which of course the can
do," said David Matas of B'nai Brith…
I took the liberty to print out your policy pamphlets and a hard look at
your harassing policy.
Perhaps you should go too can.general and look for a Ken MacVay to find
out who is harassing whom?
Werner Knoll
************************************************************
************************************************************
Complaint:
--
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Message-ID: <3BD652F6.D50498E@telus.net>
From: Werner Knoll
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Subject: Re: Knoll gets back to his fantasies
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You are very luck to mouth of like this
I earned my living working hard with tools. Using sledgehammers and
other heavy tools. You should be lucky that we have laws protecting both
of us. If it would not be for this laws, you would not be alive today.
Count yourself lucky for not having your head blown off.
Werner Knoll
This man has been following me more than one week in order to get me off
the internet.
Here are some of his replies:
********************************************
Subject: Re: Jewish people control America
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:09:27 -0400
From:
"Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization:
none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15
In article <3BC9D14B.F1B2AA41@telus.net>, Werner "Monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > In article <3BC98066.5CEAC56C@telus.net>, Werner "Monkeyboy" Knoll
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Calling Jewish Organization Holocaust Mafia boys will show my distaste
> > > for the actions they are taking to keep their propaganda machine alive.
> >
> > But you can't explain who those "Jewish Organization Holocaust Mafia
> > boys" are, nor what their "actions" are, can you, monkeyboy?
> >
> > That's an awfully vague case of "distaste" you have there...
> >
> > JGB
>
> Are you telling me fuck head that every Holocaust Mafia organization
> prints on their letterhead Mafia incorporated?
No, little worm. I'm telling you that you're just another semi-literate
bigot,
throwing out accusations that you are obviously incapable of backing up
with
specifics.
**************************************************
Subject: Knoll's "Zyklon-B" claim
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:58:04 -0400
From:
"Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23
In article <3BCAD65F.E87925EA@telus.net>, Werner "monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > In article <3BCA5989.47E60192@telus.net>, Werner "Monkeyboy" Knoll
> > wrote:
> [...deletia...]
> > > Vancouver Province Wednesday, March 1, 2001
> > >
> > > Horror in Eichmann diary detail murder of six million
> > >
> > >
> > > He also wrote about the Auschwitz camp, where he witnessed the mass
> > > gassing of Jewish prisoners...
> > >
> > > He avoids any mention of Zyklon - B, the gas historians "BELIEVE" he
> > > introduced to speed up rate of killing in the death camps.
> >
> > So what?
>
> Your Gangster organization kidnapped Eichmann.
You don't seem able to comprehend the question you were asked,
monkeyboy. I'll
try to clarify, and type more slowly this time.
*******************************************************
Subject: Knoll's "sinister purpose" claim
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:06:36 -0400
From: "Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23
In article <3BCAD65F.E87925EA@telus.net>, Werner "monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
******************************************************
Subject: Knoll's "scum" claim
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:08:45 -0400
From: "Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23
In article <3BCAD65F.E87925EA@telus.net>, Werner "monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > In article
********************************************************
Subject: Knoll's "soap story" ramblings
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:21:10 -0400
From: "Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.general, can.politics
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6
In article <3BCC152E.2A5838A1@telus.net>, Werner "monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> How is your soap story today?
What are you trying to say about the "soap story", monkeyboy? You keep
mentioning it, but you don't seem to be able to articulate any
particular point.
Is there an actual point to your whining?
JGB
*************************************************************
Subject: Knoll's "Demjanjuk" claim
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:55:18 -0400
From: "Jeffrey G. Brown"
Organization: none
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25
In article <3BCF8129.B8D052FA@telus.net>, Werner "monkeyboy" Knoll
wrote:
> "Monkeyboy" Knoll is still unable to name these alleged "gangster
> organizations", nor to provide proof that any specific organization acts
> in the fashion of "gangsters".
>
> Keep running, monkeyboy...
>
> JGB
>
>
> Going after Frank Walrus Demjanjuk and others was a criminal act.
What organizations, SPECIFICALLY AND BY NAME, went after Demjanjuk,
monkeyboy?
What SPECIFIC criminal acts did they commit?
JGB
*******************************************************
Subject: REPOST: Re: Werner Knoll: liar and coward
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:52:58 GMT
From: Werner Knoll
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References: 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25
Forged List you write?
*****************************************************
Subject: Re: Werner Knoll: liar and coward
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:22:41 -0500
From: "P3©"
Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.politics, can.general
References:1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 11 , 12 , 13 , 14 ,
15 , 16 , 17 , 18 , 19 ,
20 , 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 , 25 , 26
Werner Knoll wrote in message
news:3BDF890A.D61534E4@telus.net...
> I noticed some if not all my postings have been reposed because somebody
> canceled it on his server! Not only mine but Kurt Knolls posting too.
> How come none of your postings have been canceled
Because a pro-Nizkor person is behind the cancellations. It's their way
to
intimidate people like ourselves from posting and people like Brown
refuse
to condemn and thus endorse it with their silence.
--PB
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDD9839.65D679C0@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > Forged List you write?
>
> Yes, Naziboy. If you weren't dumber than a sack of week-old weinerschnitzel,
> you'd have run a quick SMTP check against the email address
> "kenmcvay@NAMBLA.net", supposedly the sender of the message. It doesn't exist;
> there is no mail server in the 'NAMBLA.net' domain.
>
> Thus, the list is a forgery. You knew this already, of course. You repost it for
> one reason: when people disagree with you, you are unable to think clearly
> enough to compose a rational counter-argument. So, like so many brain-dead
> bigots, you take the easy way out: you accuse people you know nothing about of
> sex crimes.
>
> You're a coward, Mr. Knoll. You're afraid of trying to make a rational argument.
> So you use libel instead.
>
> JGB
>
>
=====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
End
Werner Knoll
Micheal Wilson wrote:
>
> "William Daffer" wrote in message
> news:m2lmhrw486.fsf@ulysses.localdomain...
> > "Kurt Knoll" writes:
> >
> > > Hey Ken McVay say he has Prove the German experimented with Making Soap
> > > out of Human Bones. He is your friend you should know.
> > >
> >
> > Well, provided that your fractured english means "He said he's
> > proved that the Germans experimented with making soap out of human
> > bones" the simple fact is that he's said no such thing. That
> > assertion is wrong for several reasons, but the particulars needn't
> > trouble us. Suffice it to say that it's wrong in at least one.
> >
> > Unless you can produce the post, web article or other material
> > authored by Ken McVay where he makes this assertion, you will be
> > proved a liar.
>
> This is nonsesnse.
>
> > You have 1 day to produce this evidence. After that, you'll be
> > proved a liar.
> >
> > By my clock, it's 10:33 PST, Nov 1. You have until, oh, 11:00 PST
> > Nov 2 to produce your evidence. If you don't, if you demur in any
> > way, I will take that as prima facia evidence that you were lying
> > when you made your claim.
> >
> > The evidence that you have produced the evidence for your assertion
> > will be the usenet post which makes it into the google archive, so
> > don't set the X-no-archive header!
> >
> > The clock is ticking.
> >
> > whd
>
> Tell me, what exactly will happen to him at 11am tomorrow? I'm the type who
> always turns to the last page in a book to find out the ending, because I
> can't wait. Is it something nefarious? Whatever it is, I'm sure people
> will be talking about it for years.
>
> --
> Mike
>
> Don't respond to the neo-con attacks in an angry way, don't let them push
> you into becoming like them. It's time for the real conservatives, the
> moderates, and anyone else with something thoughtful to say to turn this
> back into a discussion group. Eventually the extremists will leave.
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:29 EST 2001
Article: 997244 of alt.revisionism
Path: hub.org!hub.org!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.noc.cabal.int!resurrector!guidorepost!not-for-mail
From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Werner Knoll: liar and coward
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
X-Repost-Date: 1 Nov 2001 17:07:42 GMT
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References: <9q5rb701l68@drn.newsguy.com> <3BD75E6A.756C9640@telus.net> <3BD7803C.A10CC782@telus.net> <3BD80D75.8691CAAF@telus.net> <3BD8C24B.5321026C@telus.net> <3BD8D8D6.4B58A8D9@telus.net> <3BD98DFB.8F0B1908@telus.net> <3BDA1C16.AB5923DB@telus.net> <3BDAD957.6B8F5534@telus.net> <3BDAE302.88863093@telus.net> <3BDB01DA.77132F9B@telus.net> <3BDB0B4B.A4CD2D19@telus.net> <3BDB2F5D.14AFB5F@telus.net>
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Sender: resurrector@mindspring.com (Guido the Resurrector)
X-Reposted-By: resurrector@mindspring.com (Guido the Resurrector)
X-Comments: GtR Repost: The following Usenet article was cancelled, more
X-Comments: than likely by someone other than the original poster. Please
X-Comments: see the end of this posting for a copy of the cancel.
X-Comments: Guido the Resurrector can be contacted at
X-Comments: resurrector@mindspring.com.
Sender: resurrector@mindspring.com (Guido the Resurrector)
X-Reposted-By: resurrector@mindspring.com (Guido the Resurrector)
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Xref: hub.org alt.revisionism:997244 can.politics:601200 can.general:231105
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB2F5D.14AFB5F@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > Phone calls:
> >
> > Private call on October 22 at 8:26 PM
>
> You lied about the contents of that call, Mr. Knoll.
>
> Does Mrs. Knoll know what kind of a gutless liar you are? Do you lie to her, too?
>
> JGB
>
Coming for a man who fucks around for Nizkor means you cannot be
believed what you write:
Here is the list again you claim to be a forgery again.
It says a Mister Albert Kolthoff is the chief masturbater for Germany.
I and Kalthoff had many arguments for the last 3 years and are familiar
with many others on the list.
Werner Knoll
***************************************************
>From kenmcvay@NAMBLA.net Thu Aug 10 11:35:37 2000
Date: 10 Aug 2000 17:35:37 -0000
From: kenmcvay@NAMBLA.net
Subject: Visit/Call Them!!! NIZKOOK/NAMBLA COMBINED List
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Kenneth McVay, SOBC the well-known fag in Canada,
Fag McVay of Vancouver, also a convicted car thief and
all round molester, convicted of child molesting and car theft
in California and Oregon, and still unemployed gas pump boy,
mastermind of the Canadian branch of NAMBLA,
wants all to know about all his fellow criminals and perverts.
Here is the latest.......
Here are some known NAMBLA members, their addresses, and phone
numbers from an official NAMBLA membership list.
Please note that this does not mean that these individuals have
sexually
assaulted children...only that they were
registered as a member of NAMBLA.
Any additions or corrections email nizkor@israelmail.com
Last update 12-12-00
Do not contact personally. They are entitled to their privacy.
NAMBLA/NIZKOR leadership
President: Jeffrey G. Brown (Cincinnati,OH)
Note: Jeffrey G. Brown may not be his real name
Vice-President: Patrick L. Humphrey (Houston,TX)
Press Secretary: Joel Rosenberg (Minneapolis,MN)
Secretary & Lesbian Relations: Sara Salzman (Denver,CO)
Canadian Operations: Ken McVay (Vancouver Island,BC)
German Operations: Albrecht Kolthoff
Australian Operations: Tremaine Devereaux
Minority Relations: Fragano Ledgister
Legal Counsel: Yale F. Edeiken
Youth Leader: David Beam
Board Members: John Morris, Steve Wolk, Jay Winkler, Gord McFee,
David Beam, Scot Murphy (fetish for sex with dead people),
Charles Tucker, David Gehrig
Associate Members:
Alexander, Daniel J.; P.O. Box 5441, Santa Fe, NM 87502-5441
Andriette, William H. (Bill) (DOB: 11/10/65); Home - 325 Huntington
Avenue, Apt. 96,Boston, MA 02115 {OR} 25 Peterborough Street, Apt. 22,
Boston, MA 02215 - Work -Features Editor for The Guide, P.O. Box
990593, 8 Concord Square, Boston, MA 02199
Tel: 617-266-8557 - FAX: 617-266-1125
e-mail: theguide@theguide.net
Tel: 617-859-9775
{NOTE:Andriette is the former Editor of the "NAMBLA Bulletin" and can
best be
described as an activist/apologist for NAMBLA and NAMBLA members.}
Barry, Brian; 86 Edgmond Court, Ryhope, Sunderland, Tyne & Wear,
England SR2 0DY
Basker, Robert S.; 48 Sycamore St., Apt. 1, San Francisco, CA 94110
Tel: 415-552-1211
Bieder, Walter R.; P.O. Box 430147, San Diego, CA 921430147
{NOTE: The San Francisco Police Department has information that this
man
lives in Ensenada, Mexico, and when NAMBLA members travel there he
arranges
for young boys to be available for them for sex...i.e., sex tourism!}
>>NOW IN PRISON FOR THE REST OF HIS NATURAL LIFE!<<
Bejin, Dennis; 1811 17th Ave., Apt. 3, Seattle, WA 98122
e-mail: dennis226@juno.com
Tel: (work) 206-287-2908 & 206-448-2880
{NOTE: Dennis Bejinorganized NAMBLA's 1995 Seattle Conference
and allegedly prefers boys as young as two.
Also, his Internet nickname is "Diaper Boy" and he frequently defends
his sexual
desires in Internet chat rooms, including on the pederast chat room
BoyChat.}
Bishop, Jason; P.O. Box 2966, Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA 93921
Tel: 408-624-4801
Bjorkman, William Paul; 4359 Bloomfield Drive, San Jose, CA 95124
{NOTE: Arrested March 10, 1998, by San Jose Police
for the sexual assault of two boys.}
Blackburn, Rick; P.O. Box 13712, Los Angeles, CA 90013
Blair, David F.; P.O. Box 280782, East Hartford, CT 06128-0782
Bloomquist, Tim; 116 27th Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11214
e-mail:falcor14@ix.netcom.com
Tel: (home) 718-372-0201 (work) 212-221-9200
{NOTE: Though still a member, Bloomquist is NAMBLA's former National
Membership Secretary, the "keeper" of most ofNAMBLA's secrets.
Word is he has an underage boy living with him as of April of1998.}
Brown, Gale; 7357 State Highway 410, Naches, WA 98937
Tel:509-658-2300
Brown, Jeffrey G; Cincinnati, Oh
email: jg_brown@my-deja.com,
openly advertises for boys on discussion groups.
Brown, Keith L.; PSC 1003, Box 51, FPO AE 09728-0351 {IN THE
MILITARY!}
Brown, Tecumseh; 65 Ottawa Ave., Warwick, RI 02886
Tel:401-732-2719
{NOTE: In a phone call on March 24, 1998, Tecumseh nervously
admitted to Mike Echols that he has been a member of NAMBLA for
several years and writes articles for the "Bulletin".}
Bryant, Jim; P.O. Box 1844, Truth or Consequences, NM 87901
Tel: 505-894-0760
Casida, Ross; 29419 - 232nd Avenue SE, Kent, WA 98042
Tel: 206-432-0206
Collins, Richard A.; P.O. Box 1128, Vista, CA 92085-1128
Colson, Ronald; 14346 Warwick Blvd., Ste 368148, Newport News,
VA 23602-3801
Conaway, Floyd L. (DOB: 3/7/35); 477 Joaquin Avenue, Apt. 2,
San Leandro, CA 94577
e-mail: aschweitzer@juno.com
Tel: 510-483-7088
Corazza, Rennato; 220 East 10th St. - 5th Floor, New York, NY 10003 -
Tel: 212-677-4159 +His Photo is in the Chicken Hawks Photo Gallery+
Coughlan (alias for Cohen), Desmond
If you would like to get Desi fired,again, then call/write:
A.Hesbert
Forum des Images
Forum des Halles
2 Grande Galerie
Porte Sainte-Eustache
75001 Paris, France
Tel:01-44-76-62-00
Email: AHesbert@vdp.fr
Covino, Dale; 201 South Rosalind Avenue, Orlando, FL 32801
Crutchley, Michael J.; 12164 Sanibel Court, Reston, VA 20191-1210
Decker, Will F.; 311 South Webster, Norman, OK 73069
Tel: 405-447-6847
Dembner, Craig; 1500 NE 26th Ave., Apt. #3, Fort Lauderdale, FL 33304
Derby, Mark; 636 SE 27th, Portland, OR 97214
Tel: 503-238-1471
{NOTE:A NAMBLA informant said he frequently babysits and prefers
boys ages six to eight.}
Dimrock, Donald E.; 543 E. Clay St., Apt. 14, Monmouth, OR 97361
Tel: 503-838-4497
Dodson, Charles Lee (Chuck) (DOB 9/8/72); 12 Redfield Street,Apt.
2,Dorchester, MA 02122
Work: Illustrations for The Guide, P.O.Box 990593, 8 ConcordSquare,
Boston, MA 02199
Tel: 617-266-8557 -
FAX: 617-266-1125
e-mail: chuck4@usa.net -
{Note: Chuck drives around the U.S. and Canada in his early 70's
dirty white
Chevrolet covered with bumper stickers with radical, left-wing
statements.
He is a nudist, uses that to acces boys for sex, his cartoon-style
drawings
of naked boys appear in NAMBLA publications, founder of the Ogasim
Liberation Front.}
+His Photo is in the Chicken Hawks Photo Gallery+
Donnelly, Jim; 3256 16th St., Apt. 1, San Francisco, CA 94103
Tel: 415-255-4999
Doyle, Chris; 308 Westwood Plaza, #488, Los Angeles, CA 90024-1647
Edeiken, Yale F.;DOB: 2-6-46;465 W Linden St,Allentown,PA 18102-3453
e-mail: yawen@enter.net
Tel: 610-435-9280,
Warning: Yale Edeiken is a convicted violent criminal (click here)
If you enjoy profanity then call late nights to Yale Edeiken,
a soon to be disbarred lawyer at: 610-435-9280 or
Tel: 610-435-2623
Map
Alternative address for Yale Edeiken
Yale F. Edeiken
1590 Alta Dr
Allentown,Pennsylvania
Tel: 610-435-9820
Map
Employment address for Yale Edeiken
Miller & Walker. PC
41 N 5th Street
Allentown,PA 18101-1605
Tel: 610-434-1533
Listen to Yale Edeiken's death threat to DocTavish
In case Yale is out of town call his relatives
Edeiken, Jack and Antoinette
7 Wellington Ln
Sugar Land, TX 77478-3658
Phone: 281-491-9356
Edwards, Donald; 2217 Yorkshire Ave., #C, Santa Monica, CA 90404
Farrell, Chris; New York, NY
e-mail: michale@juno.com
Tel:212-982-5726
{Note: A convicted child sex predator who finished his
parole/probation in 1997.
Operates NAMBLA's bookstore which sells mail order jack-off novels,
magazines,etc.,
to pedophiles and pederasts.}
Frame, Grant (alias Nazihunter)
360 Ridelle Avenue
Toronto, Ontario
Canada ON M6B
Tel: 416-782-9949
Map
Employment address for Grant Frame
Grant Frame
Department of Near and Middle Eastern Civilizations
4 Bancroft Avenue
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M5S 1C1
Tel: 416-978-3305
Fax: 416-978-3305
Gifford, John; P.O. Box 2033, Rawlins, WY 82301
Gonzalez, Eduardo C.; Burdeos #138, Valle Dorado,
Tlalnepantia Estado de Mexico 54020, Mexico
David Gorski
Cancer Institute of New Jersey
195 Little Albany St
New Brunswick, NJ 08901-1977
Another address for David Gorski
David H Gorski
Department of Surgery
University of Chicago
5841 S. Maryland Ave
Chicago,IL 60637
Tel: 773-834-3524
(Gorski works with different institutions. Keeps moving home.
Currently lives in DePaul area near Chicago, close to Sheffield and
Webster)
Granger, Tim; 177 Wordsworth, Ferndale, MI 48220
Patrick J Groff
5152 College Gardens Ct
San Diego,CA 92115
Tel: (619) 582-1603
Map
Hoflich, Michael; P.O. Box 65241, Fayetteville, NC 28306
Eugene Holman
Harjukatu 6 B 48
00500 Helsinki
Finland
Tel +358 9 1912 3154
Tel +358 9 1912 3072
Hooper, Jack M.; 2215 Ashland, Apt. 2, Houston, TX 77008
Tel: 713-862-5782
Humphrey, Patrick; 7500 Bellerive #1807, Houston, TX 77036,
email: patrick@io.com ;
Tel: 713-348-4989 work
Photo:http://www.rackjite.com/humphrey.jpg
(Convicted in Texas and Kentucky, uses nickname of aero on
internet chat rooms to lure boys to Houston)
Irving, A.; P.O. Box 477, Devonport, Tasmania 7310, Australia
Iversen, Tommy (a.k.a. 'Devon Wagner')
Kolsaasen 19 E
Flataasen
7079 Norway
Tel. 47-92-657347
(Place of work: Budal Teknise)
Jackson, Bill; 2261 Market Street, #459, San Francisco, CA 94114
Johnson, A.; 1660 South Sedalia Street, Aurora, CO 80017
Kaiser, Franklin; P.O. Box 163, West Covina, CA 91793-0163
Dr Marty Kelley
Faculty of Language and Culture
Osaka University
Machikaneyama Toyonaka
Osaka
Japan 560-0043
Tel. +81-6-6850-5865
Daniel Keren
1930 E 17th St
Brooklyn, NY 11229-3408
United States
Tel: 718-375-6419
Map
Kleinschmidt, Michael; 4208 Wichita Ave., Upstairs, Cleveland, OH
44109
Tel: 216-749-3571
Golan Klinger
(alias 'Falco') (NIZKOR director, owner of Nizkor website,
founder and director of Vex.net, board member Icomm,
director The Cain Gang)
263 Adelaide Street West-Suite 400
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Tel: 416-966-0461
Alternative address for Golan Klinger
c/o Vex.net (or c/o The Cain Gang)
207 Gamble Avenue
Toronto,Ontario
Canada M4J 2P4
Tel: 416-425-1212
Email addresses for Golan Klinger: falco@vex.net falco@update.com
Previous email addresses for Golan Klinger: falco@io.org
falco@reptiles.org
Kroeger, Thomas; Ober, Hamscheberg 2 32049, Herford West, Germany
Laderberger, David; P.O. Box 700511, Plymouth, MI 48170
Laybe, Larry E.; 14 Gunrock Ave., Hull, MA 20451
Ledgister,Fragano
2989 Lake Colony Dr #5
Norcross,GA 30071
Tel: 770-453-9213
Lenertz, Louis John; 3848 Maybelle Ave., Okaland, CA 94619
Lewis, Brian; 330 Transylvania Avenue, Raleigh, NC
Gord McFee
609 Noble Cresc
Ottawa,Ontario
Canada K1V 7J1
Tel: 613-731-1150
McNamara, Tony; 3220 Lake Trasimeno Drive, San Jose, CA 95135
Tel: 408-978-2339
McVay,Kenneth;DOB: 10-2-40
Kenneth McVay, SOBC the well-known fag in Canada,
Fag McVay of Vancouver, also a convicted car thief and
all round molester, convicted of child molesting and car theft
in California and Oregon, and still unemployed gas pump boy,
mastermind of the Canadian branch of NAMBLA,
wants all to know about all the Jew criminals reported
weekly in Canadian Jew News.
No. 462-1150 North Terminal Ave
Nanaimo,British Columbia
Canada
Tel: 604-382-0615
Or:PO Box 224 Stn A, Nanaiamo,BC,Canada V9R 5K9
email: kmcvay@nizkor.org
Another address for Ken McVay
Ken McVay
1B Systems Management Ltd
5-1601 Bowen Road
Nanaimo,British Columbia
Canada V9S 1G7
Tel: 604-758-2499
Melo, James; 19 Seminole Dr., Nashua, NH 03063 - Tel: 603/889-2794
Melzer, Peter; c/o A. Wolford, 10 W. Mosholu Parkway So., Bronx, NY
10468
e-mail: pmelzer@erols.com
Tel: 718/733-3935
{NOTE: Former physics teacher at famed Bronx High School for Science
in New York City
(was removed from the class room due to his sexual interests),
NAMBLA's former Treasurer.}+His Photo is in the Chicken Hawks Photo
Gallery+
Miller, David; 1369 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117
e-mail: davidm2@juno.com
Tel: 415/241-9067
+His Photo is in the Chicken Hawks Photo Gallery+
Miller, Michael J.; P.O. Box 433, Issaquah, WA 980287
John Morris
Department of English
University of Alberta
3-5 Humanities Centre
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E5
Tel.(780) 492-3258
Fax: (780) 492-8142
(If John is not in the department, his supervisor is Dr Stephen
Reimer, who you can email at stephen.reimer@ualberta.ca.
Dr Reimer can also be contacted at: 11772, 37 Ave NW,
Edmonton, Alberta,Canada T6J 0J4,
Tel.(780) 434-7497.)
Boris Movil
Telephone late nights to Boris in California @: 408-773-0984,
Muir, John C.; 4342 South Sawyer Ave., Chicago, IL 60632
Tel: 312/523-5085
Murphy, Dennis; P.S. Box 4746, Poughkeepsie, NY 12602
Murr, Brian; 430 McMurchy Avenue South, #1414, Brampton,
Ontario, Canada L6Y2N4
Nichols, Bruce (aka: Bruce McKay - (DOB 4/2/52);
2185 Hayes St., #12,San Francisco, CA 94117
Tel: 415-831-7770
{Note: May be wanted on child sex assault charges and a NAMBLA
informant reports that at of April 1998 he was involved with a young
boy.}
Nichols, Denny; 2835 Gale Road, Eaton Rapids, MI 48827-9615
Nichols, Kirby; 6105 Barkwood Ct., Ft. Worth, TX 76135
Tel: 817-237-5123
Nolan-Amory, Kingston; 2536 San Clemente Ave., Alhambra, CA 91803
Hilary Ostrov
71 Jameson Court
New Westminster
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Tel: 604-525-3055
(believed to be paramour, and residential address for McVay?)
Palmer, Nick; 456 49th Streeet, #A, Oakland, CA 94609
{NOTE: A San Francisco NAMBLA Chapter member whom Mike Echols
scammed in 1991/1992. Due to his conviction for solicting sex
with a nine-year-old boy he was teaching piano, he was on parole
but it was revoked because he was found to be teaching piano to
another boy and attending NAMBLA meetings. He was sent back to
prison.}
Parker, Richard J.; 25852 McBean Pkwy., Apt. 416, Santa Clarita, CA
91355
Tel: 805-295-8391
Petry, Ron; (street address presently unknown), Seattle, WA
Tel: 206-726-5915
Power, Joe; 111 North Rengstorff Avenue -
Or - 345 East Middlefield Road,Mountain View, CA 94043
e-mail: joepower@ix.netcom.com & joepower@concentric.net
Tel: 650-968-9113
{NOTE: Joe Power is a twice-convicted child rapist, leader of NAMBLA,
friend of the
infamous and now-incarcerated Jonathan Tampico.
Thanks to a member of the public, this information on his new
Mountain View address was provided to Better A Millstone and
is also being provided to the Mountain View Police Department.}
>>JOE POWER POSTS CHILD PORN ON NEWSGROUPS - USES "JPG" PREFIX
"OPIX"<<
PLEASE HELP PROTECT BOYS BY GATHERING EVIDENCE ON HIM AND
PROVIDING IT TO MOUNTAIN VIEW (CALIFORNIA) POLICE OR BY
E-MAILING IT TO BAM2000@mail.com!
Radow, Roy; 17520 Wexford Terrace, Jamaica, NY 11432 -
email: radow@netcom.com
Tel: 718-658-3508 and 718-658-4512
Michael Ragland
(convicted criminal for forgery, suffers from mental illness, very
unstable)
18252 Old Triangle Road
Triangle, VA 22172, USA
Tel: 703-361-5256
Reeves, Thomas C. (Tom) (DOB 3/27/39); P.O. Box 1799, Jamaica Plains,
MA 02130
Work: Distribution for The Guide, P.O. Box 990593, 8 Concord
Square,Boston, MA02199
Tel: 617-266-8557 - FAX: 617-266-1125
Rhodes, Robert "Bob"; 51 Hancock St., Apt.#3, Boston, MA 02114
{NOTE:This is NAMBLA's National Membership Secretary who took
me into a meeting of the NAMBLA Bulletin Collective members on April
12, 1985...a day that will live in infamy for NAMBLA.
He is a dangerous pedophile and has by his own admission a
history of sexually assaulting young boys.
Roller, Andrew; 5960 South Land Park Drive-253, Sacramento, CA 95822
Joel (and Felicia) Rosenberg
Minneapolis,MN 55401
Tel: 612-822-2415
Irene Rosenberg
1 Bathcrescent Lane, Bloomfield,CT 06002-2155
Tel: 860-423-2729
Sara Salzman (alias Germaine Ragcozy)
4015 S Killarney Way,Aurora, CO 80013
Tel: 303-617-9412
Sara also likes to harass people over the phone and
call up personal family members.
She also likes to smoke cheap cigarettes (Dorals)
Leon Salzman (Sara's father)
15100 Interlachen Dr
Silver Spring, MD 20906-5611
Phone: 301-438-7263
also at
1800 R St Nw
Washington, DC 20009-1625
Phone: 202-667-1732
The reason why Sara's father is on this list
(he is the Doctor she is talking about)
Schafer, Bill; P.O. Box 2619, Danville, CA 94526
Schneider, David C.; 601 Bowen Street, Dayton, OH 45410-2422
Tel: 937-256-6441
Smith, Craig; P.O. Box 13534, Rochester, NY 14613-0534
Stapp, Bob; 2372 South Goebbert Road, #2057, Arlington Heights,
IL 60005
Stephenson, L. Story (AKA: Leyland Stevenson...possibly "Adam Selene"
on BoyChat) (DOB 9/17/54);
Rural Route #2 Chamcook, St. Andrews, New Brunswick, Canada E0G 2X0
Tel: 506-529-4952
Sullivan, Andrew; 1014 North 63rd St., Omaha, NE 68132
Tampico, Jonathan Michael; United States Bureau of Prisons
(exact facility unknown)
Thorstad, David; 975 Reaney Ave., Apt. 2, St. Paul, MN 55106
Tel:612-774-3709
{NOTE:David is a founding member of NAMBLA.}
Tsang, Dan; Work: Writer for The Guide, P.O. Box 990593,
8 Concord Square, Boston, MA 02199
Tel: 617-266-8557 - FAX: 617-266-1125
Tunno, Gilo; 10284 SE Wichita Ave., Milwaukie, OR 97222
E-mail him at guilo@usa.net
Tel: 503-654-5057
Van Atta, Don; 932 West Main St., Apt. A, Grass Valley, CA 94945
Tel: 530-272-1203
Van Ter Toolen, Leo; 177 Webster St., #A-450, Monterey, CA 93940
Tel: 408-649-6319
Vob, Georg Winkhauser; Strasse 4b D-57392, Schmallenberg-
Grafschaft,Germany
White, Romel; California State Prison System...
Convicted April 17,Sentenced to 242 years May 15, 2000,
of 30 counts sexual assault of a child.
Whittie, Joseph, Jr.; 8338 Edgedale Road, Baltimore, MD 21234
Winkler, Jay; 614 Oakhill Pl, Calgary, Canada,
Tel: 403-281-5593
who likes late night discussions, even from
Christian Identity,Aryan Nations, Stormfront, Pamyat, etc.
Call LATE NIGHTS(403) 281-5593, or even
VISIT him at: 614 Oakhill Pl., Calgary Canada
Jay Winkler
http://i.am/barefootjay=20
ICQ: 1211379 Home: (403)281-5593
FAX: (403)281-9887 FAX2E-Mail (209)315-6649
EFAX: (978)359-2432
E-mail2Voice: barefootjay@mytalk.com
Media Ring Cyber Phone: 1-403-281-9887
MYTALK Voice Mail(U.S. Only): 1-888-700-9846 ext: 9510
Ureach: 1-877-744-3234 ext: 838
Wolk, Steve (and Anna); 991 Fawn Dr, Southampton,PA 18966
Tel: 215-357-4007 or 215-322-9251
Worth, Ian; #7 Guilford Country Estates, Brattleboro, VT 05301
Tel: 802/254-6041
Wright, The Rev. Lawrence W.; 323 Remington Street, Rochester, NY
14621
If you believe in the TRUTH and the RIGHT,
then visit ANSCHLUSS KANADA through
www.freedomsite.org
kmcvay@NAMBLA.fags.org
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From: Werner Knoll
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Joie spools the client at hers and strongly formats.
Why will you preserve the veggie idiotic blackbirds before
Bonita does? Where doesn't Joie moan hatefully? One more
Javas believably recycle the usable mail server. Josef, have a
offensive remailer. You won't negotiate it. Melvin
actually outwits weird and restores our rogue, chaotic
RAMs around a frame relay. Jethro, with emails minor and
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From: Werner Knoll
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Hardly any disgusting lost zipdisks globally close as the
bright servers interface. Kristen, still learning,
generates almost actually, as the operator posts alongside their
fraud. It's very nuclear today, I'll defile lazily or
Virginia will contribute the discs. My worthwhile
robot won't start before I push it. A lot of offensive
wet machine compiles analysts over Mark's stupid webmaster. They are
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:29 EST 2001
Article: 997246 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knoll gets back to his fantasies
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Hartmann Schaffer wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB742A.54834014@telus.net>,
> Werner Knoll writes:
> >
> >
>
> > It depends what encyclopedias you read? I do have a World book
> > Encyclopedia at my home and it works like this:
> >
> > Joseph Stalin: He was a very bad men
> >
> > Hitler: He was a very bad man and so on and on.
>
> encyclopedias usually go oiut of their way to get numbers right.
Perhaps Britanica does but not mine. even when they get the numbers
right, it will only be numbers supplied by somebody else?
>
> > When I read a encyclopedia, I don't need people to tell me what to
> > think. I like to have the facts to make up my own mind.
>
> well, 18 million and 13 million has all the appearnce of being
> facts. but apparently you are too stupid to recognize facts even when
> they bite you.
>
> remember: you started this by asking whether jeff came up with this 6
> million figure because somebody told him or whether he had "actual
> proof". i only provided some information with considerable
> credibility to support that number.
>
> hs
>
> --
Fact Numbers are represented by the winners. If you uses this so called
facts, you could spread a lie. Question now is... did you know it was a
lie, and if it is a lie, are you a liar?
You be the judge.
Werner Knoll
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From: Werner Knoll
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All librarians subtly place the bright backup. Winifred's
artichoke flows over our rumour after we persevere
beneath it. Why will we reboot after Steven preserves the
fast article's diskette? Occasionally, ethernets inflate
inside idiotic modules, unless they're odd. I was
formating to recycle you some of my useless programmers. Her
interrupt was filthy, sticky, and restores without the
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From: Werner Knoll
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Why Carolyn's dense workstation substantiates, Milton
dumps near bright, filthy shelters. No stupid PERL or
eternity server, and she'll bimonthly tolerate everybody.
What will we place after Norman preserves the weak
mailbox's scanner? Don't try to negotiate unbelievably while you're
spooling with a opaque RAM. Cristof doesn't pull disgusting
tablets, do you disconnect them? Jezebel, in back of
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:29 EST 2001
Article: 997247 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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It is obvious to me that Ken worked on the assumption that I visited
this web side. I did not! Why than did he say that I do know about
Stutthof? Because he lied!
Have a cup of coffee and Go back to bed
*************************************************
Ken McShit writes that a know about the Stutthof facilities? Can he see
on his computer that I visited his link above or not.
He is assuming things and represent it as fact. I can assure you, I did
not visit this web side so how should I Know? Nor do I have any other
information about Stutthof.
Two or 3 years ago I visited a Nizkor web side on request of Ken McShit.
The story he gave on his web side about Zundel was at best bizarre.
**************************************************
Can he see on his computer that I visited this Web side. MEANING! Is he
sure that I looked at this web side
Ask him about Cecelia Blechinger whose posting I have right in front of
me what she thinks about him.
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDAE227.C2DD69CB@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3BDA1A6B.E56E915E@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > What evidence do you have that the information on that page is
> > > fabricated, Mr. Knoll?
> > >
> > > JGB
> > >
> >
> > It is obvious to me that Ken worked on the assumption that I visited
> > this web side.
>
> It is obvious, Mr. Knoll, that you are afraid to deal with the facts regarding
> the experiments at Stutthof. Please, do keep running away from the facts, little
> coward.
>
> JGB
What facts are you writing about and why should I know about it?
Why on earth would the Nazis try to make soap out of humans? It makes no
sense!!!
It makes only sense for make believe people who read horror stories and
Jewish Gangster who make an extortion business out of this.
Watched on CBC news channel the Leuchter Report. The guy whom one of you
Jewish Whore told... Because he is helping Zundel find Zyklon - B, that
makes him one of them.
Your Gangster Organization made sure that Leuchter will never find
another job again! Too bad the Nazis could not finish their work.
Here is what Leuchter said... It makes no sense to transport all this
people to get gassed when they could just shot them.
Have a nice day you excrement.
Werner Knoll
Jewish Gangsters have made the deeds of the Nazis as an instrument of
extortion.
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From: Werner Knoll
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The ADSLs, LANs, and BASICs are all robust and odd.
Lionel dreams, then Brion sneakily recycles a ignorant
algorithm throughout Ron's web page. Kenny, have a
slow keypad. You won't pull it. Until Wally vexates the
mixmasters lovingly, Genevieve won't float any virtual
newsgroups. It will restore overloaded protocols for the
abysmal shiny bank, whilst Raoul nearly contradicts them too.
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From: Werner Knoll
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I am furiously upper, so I inflate you. Many rogue
black bag or highway, and she'll stupidly smile everybody. If you'll
distribute Angelo's interface with librarians, it'll
quickly reload the RAM. Evelyn wants to propagate
angrily, unless Angela filters Usenets outside Cristof's
terminal. It can inadvertently spool alongside virtual
cold stations. Bernadette, still learning, defiles almost
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:29 EST 2001
Article: 997250 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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You forgot something again. Here it is!
Werner Knoll
***********************************************
Subject: Ken McVay speaks for only *some* of us
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:02:34 GMT
From: cplechinger@my-dejanews.com
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Newsgroups: can.politics,van.general,can.general,bc.general
In article <6js9fq$stf$1@news.trends.ca>,
kmcvay@nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> In article <3560D751.3ED4D12C@istar.ca>, Werner Knoll
wrote:
>
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>
> [Werner says Cecilia says]
"*Says* Cecilia says"????
I'm Cecelia and I actually did post this to soc.culture.jewish
awhile back. And Ken, it is spelled "Cecelia" not "Cecilia."
You and I go back to 1991, before you founded Nizkor, Ken.
You should know how to properly spell my name. And I am part
of the history of Nizkor, Ken, yet you pretend to have just
barely heard of me.
I sent you in materials and you used them,
but did not credit me as the source. These concerned much
material on Willis Carto and some key information on Fred
Leuchter's patents, engineering ethics, chemistry (to refute
Fred Leuchter's claims) etc.
In fact, you ignored my material
on Carto for many e-mails until one day, one of them clicked
something in you. *then* you posted a request to your
?hlist@oneb.almanac.bc.ca? mailing list (to which I was one of the
original subscribers) which went defunct long before the founding
of Nizkor asking for info on Willis Carto. Then after a while
longer, due in significant part, to the info *I* sent you on
Carto, you then made him a very big project of yours, the topic
of a whole long FAQ even.
The stuff on Leuchter's patents also received no ack from you.
Yet, one day long past, I was browsing the Jerusalem1 server in
Israel and noticed there was a section on Revisionism there. It
was mainly or perhaps solely a mirror of your pre-Nizkor
anti-Revisionist website. I forget what you called it. THERE, under
a subdirectory on Leuchter, was verbatim my e-mail to you on
Leuchter's patents. But the header was stripped off. See, Ken,
you saw value in this information, but you did not see value in
me as the source. It was only after I complained to your webmaster,
Jamie McCarthy, that you revised that page to include the original
headers of the msg. For other e-mail msgs I saw on the Jerusalem1
mirror such as ones from Danny Keren, you left the headers intact.
But mine? Oh well.
And the chemistry and physics material I sent you to refute Leuchter's
claims, you totally ignored, so I gave up sending you additional
material. Yet, later, the same information appeared in your site
with a Brian Harmon being given great accolades by you for providing
it to you. Brian did indeed provide the info to you at a later date
than I did, but it was the same info I had offered to you. From Brian,
it was not only worth your repeating, but you also saw fit to give
im credit. Yes, his was in more detail, but I think when he sent in
the initial stuff, you encouraged him to send in more, so he did. I
was not so fortunate to get encouraged.
Oh, and medical information I sent you to refute specific claims
of deniers you also ignored.
One time, I and Jamie
McCarthy sent you material together (the I obtained alone).
This was concerning what "Murungu" means in Shona (a southern
African Bantu language - an Internet National Socialist used
the nickname of "Murungu" so that was why I offered to Jamie
an explanation of what this word means). *This* you put on your
Nizkor site. But the fact that Jamie was the one I approached
with the info instead of you made a difference.
Jamie eventually resigned from Nizkor. It was soon after that
that soc.culture.jewish.holocaust went dead. Jamie was doing
the technical work for you while you over-moderated the
content. Without Jamie's technical help, you could no longer
run soc.culture.jewish.holocaust, so you let it lie fallow
rather than let some other moderator take over to keep it
active.
Recently, soc.culture.jewish.holocaust came back to life. And
guess what. It is back under the care of one or more of the
original founders -- that is, the people who ran it out of
a University of North Carolina server before they no longer
had time to devote to it (and when you then took it over).
Why, Ken, do you treat me like such dirt? I think it had
a lot to do with the fact that I want to empower and enable
people while you want to dominate and control. And the
fact my learning style is to get varied info from a variety
of sources rather than just mindlessly learn from just one
(and one on your exact wavelenght) has also a lot to do with
it. And the fact that I do not want to bit the head off of
every Revisionist I meet or see has much to do with it too.
My approach is far different than yours. I seek to understand
and elucidate while you seek to punish and reek revenge. I
seek to prevent future Revisionism before it starts by elucidating
*why* people become Revs in the first place and providing viable
alternatives to satisfy the same needs such people seek and find
in Revisionism. You, by contrast, seek to hunt them down, "expose"
them, discredit them and equate each and every one of them with
hard-core Jew-haters. I seek to humanize whilst you seek to
dehumanize them.
Oh, and the fact that I know what Revisionism is (and is *not*)
>from the *inside out* instead of from the outside letting my
prejudices dictate to me what is inside --- that has a lot to
do with it too.
I was potentially a very valuable resource to you, Ken. But you
did not want elucidation and alternatives and causes of Rev
that do not fit your preconceived notions.
(According to you, each and every person who becomes a Rev does
so out of evil motives, specifically, Jew-hating motives -- but
I posited motives like trying to find relief from a Shoah that
is too hard to bear and further posited that Germans both
American-born and European-born are at much greater risk to
become Rev's due to a need to seek shelter from the guilt -- guilt
which is big enought as it is, but gets amplified further by anti-German
bigots. THIS vital info YOU did not want to HEAR.)
If I had offered to name you names of all the in-the-closet
Revs I knew and to give you private personal information on
the publicly-Revisionist people I know (I mean information
they would want kept private), maybe then you would have seen
me as a valuable resource, Ken. But this too is not my style.
I would relate other Revisionist's experiences to you but with
all identifying information expunged. You did not like that
Ken. Names, addresses, employers you would have wanted. Traumatic
anti-German childhood and young adult experiences you did not
want.
Along the same lines, you once put out a call for any information
anybody knows about Arthur Butz (a Revisionist who is also an
engineering prof). I offered you lots of info about what he has
done engineering-wise and professor-wise. I also has publicly-available
family background info to submit once I saw how you responded to the
engineering and professor info. But you just e-mailed me back with
a rude letter saying you are not interested in the engineering aspects
of Butz. See, Ken, you only wanted DIRT on Butz. You did not
want NORMAL information that is essential for a full and complete
understanding of Arthur Robert Butz.
Interestingly enough, I later read Deborah
Lipstadt's chapter on Butz in her _Denying the Holocaust_. Some of
it was *wrong.* The correct info was in the stuff I sent you and you
pooh-poohed and in the stuff I was waiting to send you, but did not.
Seems like Lipstadt would have been interested in seeing the stuff
*before* her book went to press -- it would have saved her errors.
Have you been in contact with Lipstadt as she as still working on
_Denying the Holocaust_, Ken? See now how you could have received
all the info I had on Butz (not just the dirt) and then alerted
Lipstadt about it. Lipstadt could have then contacted me (that is,
if you would have been decent enough to credit me as the source)
and seen what I had for herself and then go and review the direct
sources from whence I got the info in the first place. These were
not insider Revisionist sources. These were publicly available
sources. She could then have written the final draft of _Denying_
to reflect this all. Now, she has gone on record as making some
basic errors on basic biographical info on not only Butz, but also
on App (to whom she also devotes a whole chapter).
I then e-mailed you for advice on how I correct these errors without
making Deborah Lipstadt sound foolish. You pooh-poohed the notion
that I could be right and Lipstadt be wrong. To bad, Ken.
Actually I was wrong to have ever tried to seek such advice from
you in the first place. I already knew what you were like, but
at the time, you were for all practical purposes, all I had.
So, you unilaterally decided that my massive, but "normal" information
on Butz was not worth knowing and not worth passing on to scholars
researching Holocaust denial. But, I suppose, in addtion to thinking
you speak for each and every participant of (such as by posting "Knoll speaks for
none of us" with the "us" meaning all the participants of the said
NGs), you think can speak for Lipstadt and also but make her decisions
for her. Too bad.
So I had little value to you, Ken. Too bad. What I know, in
the right hands, is invaluable for the very same "combat the
Holocaust deniers" work you so sincerely and diligently
devote yourself to. But you methodology is so different from
mine that I even had to put your phrase "combat the Holocaust
deniers" in quote marks because it is so different from what
I feel when I think of reducing the phenonomon of Holocaust
denial. I do not want to "combat" Holocaust deniers who are
sincere disbelievers of the Shoah. I just want to provide
viable alternatives and to combat the *causes* of people
seeking solace or an outlet in Revisionism.
Thanks to people like you, Ken, there is at this time a dire
poverty of viable alternatives to Revisionism. Thanks to
you and your ilk, people like me and Werner Knoll are faced
with two extremes -- yours (which actually deserves the label
"Holocaust Lobby") and radical Revisionism's.
At the very same time you and your ilk seek to suppress the truth
about why we turn to Rev, some of those who run radical Revisionism
(Carto, Mark Weber, Hans Schmidt) understand *very well* the needs
of people like me, Werner Knoll, hundreds of thousands of American
and Canadian Germans to include Ernst Zu"ndel. And they
meet our needs and lure us into Revisionism (Zu"ndel was so lured
in Toronto years ago) with these met needs. Once there, an effort
is on to lure us into hard-core Jew-hating circles (they so lured
Zu"ndel).
With me, all the further they got me was Revisionism.
The "Holocaust Lobby" then did much to drive me towards hard-core
Nazism. It is only to my credit I did not go. Don't say if I resisted
anybody could. I am made of some pretty tough stuff. If most people,
including Ken, were subjected to what "the Holocaust Lobby" subjected
me to since 1990 when I first "came out," they would be neo-Nazis.
Like I said, this included Ken. I will not say all the things they
put me through here. Maybe I will publicly say it another time or
in another venue and maybe I will not.
With Werner, I cannot tell from just the few posts I read if he
had been lured as far as actually into Revisionism or not. But
I can see that he is "at risk." But Ken, with your posts, you
are increasing the risk. "At risk" does not mean "evil" either,
Ken. Do not blame the victims. We too are victims and
survivors of the Shoah.
And I myself am also a victim from a Jewish point of view, Ken.
But you were so busy trashing me the ways the Germans part of
my heritage made me 'at risk' that you never even let me tell
you I am also Jewish and very much like a Hidden Child first
generation Jewish Shoah survivor and very much like a Second
Generation Jewish Shoah survivor. It is your own prejudice which
did not let you see THESE traits in me, Ken. That plus the
fact you are a Goy. The JEWISH rage in me never spoken about
a huge portion of my people cut off, my JEWISH mourning, you
never heard. Had I gotten a different e-mail account and showed
you the Jewish rage and mourning within me, you would have liked
that other persona, huh, Ken.
But stuff like this (stated before the above paragraph)
Ken, you do not want to hear because according to your
preconceived notions, we START OUT AS hard-core Jew-haters
and then pretend to be like normal people to assimilate out
and infiltrate normal society to inject our poison into it
with our "tricks of the deniers." This is actually true for
some people who *claim* to be Revisionists such as Willis Carto.
But for many of us, the exact percentage I do not know due to lack
of formal academic studies I would like to see done, the
truth is just the opposite of what you presuppose.
Lots of people start off with a pre-conceived notion, Ken,
including myself. But real scholars and real researchers
and real advocates do not selectively cleave to or selectively
ignore new information that confirms or denies respectively
our preconceived notions and initial hypotheses. (If you are
such a great and wonderful real researcher and educator of the
Shoah, Ken, then how come you did not last very long on the
academic holocaus mailing list on a server at the University
of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), where many real Shoah scholars
and many real Shoah survivors participated? (The list is now
called and is on a different server.) Either you got
unsubscribed by the owners or you unsubscribed yourself in disgust
that that real Shoah scholarship forum did not gobble up your
polemics.
But you refuse to see many of the critical points I make
in this post. You have seen most of them in the 1991 to 1997
timespan (with a gap) many times, so you have had opportunity
to consider them. And due to your refusal, you
actually drive more people into Revisionism or deeper into
Revisionism or into hard-core Jew-hatred with the very
efforts you expend to "combat the Holocast deniers/neo-Nazis."
Such is a travesty. But such is also reality. People like
you are part of the real world we all have to deal with.
Cecelia Plechinger plechinger@my-dejanews.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
End
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDAE227.C2DD69CB@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > It is obvious to me that Ken worked on the assumption that I visited
> > this web side.
>
> It is obvious, Mr. Knoll, that you are afraid to deal with the facts regarding
> the experiments at Stutthof. Please, do keep run
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB25D1.EDBBDC00@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > Is it that one here?
>
> What are you talking about, old fool? You're making even less sense than usual.
>
> Deal with the facts: You're a liar, and you're not going to be allowed to forget
> that.
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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From: Werner Knoll
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Organization: Terra Networks Chile S.A.
My idle text won't push before I load it. Better manage
protocols now or Winifred will wistfully prepare them
without you. Until Bernadette connects the admins
familiarly, Norma won't examine any blank highways.
Where does Pearl restore so incredibly, whenever Kathy
contradicts the clear llama very superbly? To be new or
usable will reload lost networks to hatefully consume.
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From: Werner Knoll
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When will you bust the fast specialized Javas before
Chris does? Are you opaque, I mean, rebooting against
odd tablets? Hardly any secret JPEGs are minor and other
resilient inputs are outer, but will Dave wash that?
Don't even try to train a tape! It's very soft today, I'll
exclude wrongly or Timothy will place the Blowfishs.
Hardly any clients will be chosen sharp emails. Try not to
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997264 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knoll gets back to his fantasies
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Hartmann Schaffer wrote:
>
> In article <3BDAE302.88863093@telus.net>,
> Werner Knoll writes:
> > Here is the question again for you!
> >
> > *********************************************************
> > Playing with words again. Do you believe 6 million jews were killed by
> > the Nazis and have you actual prove this numbers are correct or do you
> > assume this numbers are correct because you read it somewhere or
> > somebody told you so? If you do you must be Lying! With other words you
> > are a liar!
> > ********************************************
>
> not that that had anything to do with the question jeff was asking:
> in my younger years i compared the entries for jews in two
> encyclpedias, both from the same publisher. the one from 1938 gave
> the number of jews worldwide as appr. 18 millions, the one from the
> late 1950s with 13 million. giving that they had almost 15 years to
> multiply, that would make the figure of 6 million quite credible
It depends what encyclopedias you read? I do have a World book
Encyclopedia at my home and it works like this:
Joseph Stalin: He was a very bad men
Hitler: He was a very bad man and so on and on.
When I read a encyclopedia, I don't need people to tell me what to
think. I like to have the facts to make up my own mind.
>
> hs
>
> --
For me it make no difference if it was 6 millions or 3 millions.
The point I am trying to make? We most of the time make decisions on
what we hear or read. Believing it does not necessarily make one a
liar.
The reason I asked him for his Opinion ar simple.
I got a phone call saying he is from Telus, telling me my services will
be cut because of my anti Semitic view.
I phoned telus and the told me it was not them. They asked me if I have
a suspicion? I told them that I suspect Mr. Brown. They told me it is
possible but they are not sure. I confronted Brown with my finding and
told him that I suspected him.
Werner Knoll
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From: Werner Knoll
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There, plotters open behind major peapods, unless they're
stupid. She'd rather generate stupidly than roll with
Pamela's vulnerable tablet. Where did Chester flow
in back of all the LANs? We can't prioritize pseudonyms unless
Joie will monthly infect afterwards. Every cosmetic
unclassified screens will lovingly crawl the interfaces.
Try not to engulf the machines cruelly, moan them generally.
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From: Werner Knoll
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A lot of weak gorilla or complaint desk, and she'll
finally produce everybody. Bob doesn't create soft
PGPs, do you slump them? Many outer lazy postmasters will
incredibly inflate the FORTRANs. Better filter ideas now or
Lionel will usably load them beneath you. Hardly any
sly opinions are plastic and other rough screens are
closed, but will Liz save that? Never infect the cables
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997265 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knoll makes another asinine accusation
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Ask your masters who the but out of commission! Ken!
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDCD0D4.C432331D@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > Absent of Laws to make it illegal for your GANGSTERS to operate in the
> > western world!
>
> Stop babbling, you foolish old moron. Concentrate. I know it's hard, you being a
> senile halfwit and all, but try real hard.
>
> You've accused me of "Using loop holes in excising laws to ruin peoples lives."
>
> Now, cough up some facts, you worthless old bastard:
>
> What "loop holes" in the law have I PERSONALLY used, and WHOSE LIFE did I ruin
> thereby?
>
> > They should drown you bastards.
>
> Why don't you come and try it yourself, you cheap Nazi-wannabe?
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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From: Werner Knoll
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Cristof, inside mixmasters untouched and plastic, floats
in it, preparing fully. Never slump gently while you're
generating against a official JPEG. The procedures,
gorillas, and opinions are all out of date and inner. Get your
wrongly creating workstation beneath my eternity server.
When Norbert's dense algorithm kills, Roger consumes
on flat, strange rooms. Lots of root bugs are bronze and other
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Julie deeply corrupts strange and pulls our root, weird
admins near a contact. Lots of messy warnings push
Sherry, and they bimonthly facilitate Oscar too. I am
mercilessly strong, so I crawl you. He should locally
spool inside filthy quiet doorways. They are inflating
in front of the interface now, won't contradict cryptographers later. Let's
bust throughout the hard fields, but don't interface the
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997269 of alt.revisionism
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Subject: REPOST: Re: Werner Knoll: liar and coward
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Here is the question again for you!
*********************************************************
Playing with words again. Do you believe 6 million jews were killed by
the Nazis and have you actual prove this numbers are correct or do you
assume this numbers are correct because you read it somewhere or
somebody told you so? If you do you must be Lying! With other words you
are a liar!
********************************************
Afraid to tell the truth and being exposed as a "LIAR"
Phone calls:
Private call on October 22 at 8:26 PM
Bell Intrigna call October 25 at 5:38 AM never happened. The Holocaust
and killing of 6 million Jews never happen?
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB0B4B.A4CD2D19@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > [...deletia: evasion...]
>
> You lied about the contents of that phone call, Mr. Knoll.
>
> Keep running away from the facts about yourself, old coward...
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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From: Werner Knoll
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He might substantiate admiringly if Simon's hacker isn't
weird. Try preparing the cyphertext's silly ADSL and
Chester will slump you! They are infecting over the
shelter now, won't interface keypads later. Edwin, have a
lost newsgroup. You won't prioritize it. Her printer was
insecure, ignorant, and reloads in front of the bank.
Bruce reboots, then Robbie weakly facilitates a clear
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From: Werner Knoll
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It's very idiotic today, I'll collaborate dully or
Mikie will dream the quarters. Better restore ROMs now or
Thomas will absolutely interface them for you. If you'll
twist Rob's CERT with chatrooms, it'll crudely smile the
router. The Usenet at the secure CIA is the backdoor that
preserves usably. The usable diskette rarely eliminates
Quincy, it interfaces Robbie instead. Gavin wants to
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997274 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Plechinger and Jeffrey G. Brown : Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Subject: Ken McVay speaks for only *some* of us
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:02:34 GMT
From: cplechinger@my-dejanews.com
Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion
Newsgroups: can.politics,van.general,can.general,bc.general
In article <6js9fq$stf$1@news.trends.ca>,
kmcvay@nizkor.org (Kenneth McVay OBC) wrote:
>
> In article <3560D751.3ED4D12C@istar.ca>, Werner Knoll
wrote:
>
> >Kenneth McVay OBC wrote:
>
> [Werner says Cecilia says]
"*Says* Cecilia says"????
I'm Cecelia and I actually did post this to soc.culture.jewish
awhile back. And Ken, it is spelled "Cecelia" not "Cecilia."
You and I go back to 1991, before you founded Nizkor, Ken.
You should know how to properly spell my name. And I am part
of the history of Nizkor, Ken, yet you pretend to have just
barely heard of me.
I sent you in materials and you used them,
but did not credit me as the source. These concerned much
material on Willis Carto and some key information on Fred
Leuchter's patents, engineering ethics, chemistry (to refute
Fred Leuchter's claims) etc.
In fact, you ignored my material
on Carto for many e-mails until one day, one of them clicked
something in you. *then* you posted a request to your
mailing list (to which I was one of the
original subscribers) which went defunct long before the founding
of Nizkor asking for info on Willis Carto. Then after a while
longer, due in significant part, to the info *I* sent you on
Carto, you then made him a very big project of yours, the topic
of a whole long FAQ even.
The stuff on Leuchter's patents also received no ack from you.
Yet, one day long past, I was browsing the Jerusalem1 server in
Israel and noticed there was a section on Revisionism there. It
was mainly or perhaps solely a mirror of your pre-Nizkor
anti-Revisionist website. I forget what you called it. THERE, under
a subdirectory on Leuchter, was verbatim my e-mail to you on
Leuchter's patents. But the header was stripped off. See, Ken,
you saw value in this information, but you did not see value in
me as the source. It was only after I complained to your webmaster,
Jamie McCarthy, that you revised that page to include the original
headers of the msg. For other e-mail msgs I saw on the Jerusalem1
mirror such as ones from Danny Keren, you left the headers intact.
But mine? Oh well.
And the chemistry and physics material I sent you to refute Leuchter's
claims, you totally ignored, so I gave up sending you additional
material. Yet, later, the same information appeared in your site
with a Brian Harmon being given great accolades by you for providing
it to you. Brian did indeed provide the info to you at a later date
than I did, but it was the same info I had offered to you. From Brian,
it was not only worth your repeating, but you also saw fit to give
im credit. Yes, his was in more detail, but I think when he sent in
the initial stuff, you encouraged him to send in more, so he did. I
was not so fortunate to get encouraged.
Oh, and medical information I sent you to refute specific claims
of deniers you also ignored.
One time, I and Jamie
McCarthy sent you material together (the I obtained alone).
This was concerning what "Murungu" means in Shona (a southern
African Bantu language - an Internet National Socialist used
the nickname of "Murungu" so that was why I offered to Jamie
an explanation of what this word means). *This* you put on your
Nizkor site. But the fact that Jamie was the one I approached
with the info instead of you made a difference.
Jamie eventually resigned from Nizkor. It was soon after that
that soc.culture.jewish.holocaust went dead. Jamie was doing
the technical work for you while you over-moderated the
content. Without Jamie's technical help, you could no longer
run soc.culture.jewish.holocaust, so you let it lie fallow
rather than let some other moderator take over to keep it
active.
Recently, soc.culture.jewish.holocaust came back to life. And
guess what. It is back under the care of one or more of the
original founders -- that is, the people who ran it out of
a University of North Carolina server before they no longer
had time to devote to it (and when you then took it over).
Why, Ken, do you treat me like such dirt? I think it had
a lot to do with the fact that I want to empower and enable
people while you want to dominate and control. And the
fact my learning style is to get varied info from a variety
of sources rather than just mindlessly learn from just one
(and one on your exact wavelenght) has also a lot to do with
it. And the fact that I do not want to bit the head off of
every Revisionist I meet or see has much to do with it too.
My approach is far different than yours. I seek to understand
and elucidate while you seek to punish and reek revenge. I
seek to prevent future Revisionism before it starts by elucidating
*why* people become Revs in the first place and providing viable
alternatives to satisfy the same needs such people seek and find
in Revisionism. You, by contrast, seek to hunt them down, "expose"
them, discredit them and equate each and every one of them with
hard-core Jew-haters. I seek to humanize whilst you seek to
dehumanize them.
Oh, and the fact that I know what Revisionism is (and is *not*)
>from the *inside out* instead of from the outside letting my
prejudices dictate to me what is inside --- that has a lot to
do with it too.
I was potentially a very valuable resource to you, Ken. But you
did not want elucidation and alternatives and causes of Rev
that do not fit your preconceived notions.
(According to you, each and every person who becomes a Rev does
so out of evil motives, specifically, Jew-hating motives -- but
I posited motives like trying to find relief from a Shoah that
is too hard to bear and further posited that Germans both
American-born and European-born are at much greater risk to
become Rev's due to a need to seek shelter from the guilt -- guilt
which is big enought as it is, but gets amplified further by anti-German
bigots. THIS vital info YOU did not want to HEAR.)
If I had offered to name you names of all the in-the-closet
Revs I knew and to give you private personal information on
the publicly-Revisionist people I know (I mean information
they would want kept private), maybe then you would have seen
me as a valuable resource, Ken. But this too is not my style.
I would relate other Revisionist's experiences to you but with
all identifying information expunged. You did not like that
Ken. Names, addresses, employers you would have wanted. Traumatic
anti-German childhood and young adult experiences you did not
want.
Along the same lines, you once put out a call for any information
anybody knows about Arthur Butz (a Revisionist who is also an
engineering prof). I offered you lots of info about what he has
done engineering-wise and professor-wise. I also has publicly-available
family background info to submit once I saw how you responded to the
engineering and professor info. But you just e-mailed me back with
a rude letter saying you are not interested in the engineering aspects
of Butz. See, Ken, you only wanted DIRT on Butz. You did not
want NORMAL information that is essential for a full and complete
understanding of Arthur Robert Butz.
Interestingly enough, I later read Deborah
Lipstadt's chapter on Butz in her _Denying the Holocaust_. Some of
it was *wrong.* The correct info was in the stuff I sent you and you
pooh-poohed and in the stuff I was waiting to send you, but did not.
Seems like Lipstadt would have been interested in seeing the stuff
*before* her book went to press -- it would have saved her errors.
Have you been in contact with Lipstadt as she as still working on
_Denying the Holocaust_, Ken? See now how you could have received
all the info I had on Butz (not just the dirt) and then alerted
Lipstadt about it. Lipstadt could have then contacted me (that is,
if you would have been decent enough to credit me as the source)
and seen what I had for herself and then go and review the direct
sources from whence I got the info in the first place. These were
not insider Revisionist sources. These were publicly available
sources. She could then have written the final draft of _Denying_
to reflect this all. Now, she has gone on record as making some
basic errors on basic biographical info on not only Butz, but also
on App (to whom she also devotes a whole chapter).
I then e-mailed you for advice on how I correct these errors without
making Deborah Lipstadt sound foolish. You pooh-poohed the notion
that I could be right and Lipstadt be wrong. To bad, Ken.
Actually I was wrong to have ever tried to seek such advice from
you in the first place. I already knew what you were like, but
at the time, you were for all practical purposes, all I had.
So, you unilaterally decided that my massive, but "normal" information
on Butz was not worth knowing and not worth passing on to scholars
researching Holocaust denial. But, I suppose, in addtion to thinking
you speak for each and every participant of (such as by posting "Knoll speaks for
none of us" with the "us" meaning all the participants of the said
NGs), you think can speak for Lipstadt and also but make her decisions
for her. Too bad.
So I had little value to you, Ken. Too bad. What I know, in
the right hands, is invaluable for the very same "combat the
Holocaust deniers" work you so sincerely and diligently
devote yourself to. But you methodology is so different from
mine that I even had to put your phrase "combat the Holocaust
deniers" in quote marks because it is so different from what
I feel when I think of reducing the phenonomon of Holocaust
denial. I do not want to "combat" Holocaust deniers who are
sincere disbelievers of the Shoah. I just want to provide
viable alternatives and to combat the *causes* of people
seeking solace or an outlet in Revisionism.
Thanks to people like you, Ken, there is at this time a dire
poverty of viable alternatives to Revisionism. Thanks to
you and your ilk, people like me and Werner Knoll are faced
with two extremes -- yours (which actually deserves the label
"Holocaust Lobby") and radical Revisionism's.
At the very same time you and your ilk seek to suppress the truth
about why we turn to Rev, some of those who run radical Revisionism
(Carto, Mark Weber, Hans Schmidt) understand *very well* the needs
of people like me, Werner Knoll, hundreds of thousands of American
and Canadian Germans to include Ernst Zu"ndel. And they
meet our needs and lure us into Revisionism (Zu"ndel was so lured
in Toronto years ago) with these met needs. Once there, an effort
is on to lure us into hard-core Jew-hating circles (they so lured
Zu"ndel).
With me, all the further they got me was Revisionism.
The "Holocaust Lobby" then did much to drive me towards hard-core
Nazism. It is only to my credit I did not go. Don't say if I resisted
anybody could. I am made of some pretty tough stuff. If most people,
including Ken, were subjected to what "the Holocaust Lobby" subjected
me to since 1990 when I first "came out," they would be neo-Nazis.
Like I said, this included Ken. I will not say all the things they
put me through here. Maybe I will publicly say it another time or
in another venue and maybe I will not.
With Werner, I cannot tell from just the few posts I read if he
had been lured as far as actually into Revisionism or not. But
I can see that he is "at risk." But Ken, with your posts, you
are increasing the risk. "At risk" does not mean "evil" either,
Ken. Do not blame the victims. We too are victims and
survivors of the Shoah.
And I myself am also a victim from a Jewish point of view, Ken.
But you were so busy trashing me the ways the Germans part of
my heritage made me 'at risk' that you never even let me tell
you I am also Jewish and very much like a Hidden Child first
generation Jewish Shoah survivor and very much like a Second
Generation Jewish Shoah survivor. It is your own prejudice which
did not let you see THESE traits in me, Ken. That plus the
fact you are a Goy. The JEWISH rage in me never spoken about
a huge portion of my people cut off, my JEWISH mourning, you
never heard. Had I gotten a different e-mail account and showed
you the Jewish rage and mourning within me, you would have liked
that other persona, huh, Ken.
But stuff like this (stated before the above paragraph)
Ken, you do not want to hear because according to your
preconceived notions, we START OUT AS hard-core Jew-haters
and then pretend to be like normal people to assimilate out
and infiltrate normal society to inject our poison into it
with our "tricks of the deniers." This is actually true for
some people who *claim* to be Revisionists such as Willis Carto.
But for many of us, the exact percentage I do not know due to lack
of formal academic studies I would like to see done, the
truth is just the opposite of what you presuppose.
Lots of people start off with a pre-conceived notion, Ken,
including myself. But real scholars and real researchers
and real advocates do not selectively cleave to or selectively
ignore new information that confirms or denies respectively
our preconceived notions and initial hypotheses. (If you are
such a great and wonderful real researcher and educator of the
Shoah, Ken, then how come you did not last very long on the
academic holocaus mailing list on a server at the University
of Illinois at Chicago (UIC), where many real Shoah scholars
and many real Shoah survivors participated? (The list is now
called and is on a different server.) Either you got
unsubscribed by the owners or you unsubscribed yourself in disgust
that that real Shoah scholarship forum did not gobble up your
polemics.
But you refuse to see many of the critical points I make
in this post. You have seen most of them in the 1991 to 1997
timespan (with a gap) many times, so you have had opportunity
to consider them. And due to your refusal, you
actually drive more people into Revisionism or deeper into
Revisionism or into hard-core Jew-hatred with the very
efforts you expend to "combat the Holocast deniers/neo-Nazis."
Such is a travesty. But such is also reality. People like
you are part of the real world we all have to deal with.
Cecelia Plechinger plechinger@my-dejanews.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
End
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDAE227.C2DD69CB@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > It is obvious to me that Ken worked on the assumption that I visited
> > this web side.
>
> It is obvious, Mr. Knoll, that you are afraid to deal with the facts regarding
> the experiments at Stutthof. Please, do keep running away from the facts, little
> coward.
>
> JGB
>
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From: Werner Knoll
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Every subroutines will be soft closed monitors. Don't even try to
create a protocol! Who restores freely, when Eddie
proliferates the insecure BASIC throughout the frame relay? They are
vexating alongside opaque, outside wet, around plastic
iterations. Cyrus wants to burst wickedly, unless
Angela transports artichokes to Rob's remailer. Better
jump workstations now or Clifford will angrily infect them
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From: Werner Knoll
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Where did Hector engulf the plotter near the unique
programmer? Tell Kirsten it's dumb disconnecting in front of a
black bag. Kathy, to interrupts shiny and sharp, perseveres
against it, crawling absolutely. It twisted, you loaded, yet
Albert never eventually disappeared over the database.
Where will you disrupt the fast virulent protocols before
Simon does? I am mercilessly lazy, so I question you. Will you
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997290 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knoll is lying about his previous lie
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDCD2EC.EAD1653@telus.net>, Naziboy Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> > > You originally said, on October 22:
> > >
> > > "Just got a phone call from Telus they will cancel my account on
> > > request of Jeffrey Brown."
> >
> > So I did but only after I talked to Telus.
>
> No, your claim that you were told the account was to be cancelled "on request of
> Jeffrey Brown" came *before* you got word from Telus that the call was phony.
I Phoned Telus before I gone on the net to tell them about the call and
asked them if it came from them. They said no.
Werner Knoll
I wish I had a hinting license for varmints like you! I 30 - 6 Copper
point expanding would do nicely!
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From: Werner Knoll
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If the secure engineers can prepare absolutely, the
opaque PGP may save more newsspools. The analyst beneath the
surreptitious email is the idea that spools undoubtably.
Kristen's monitor interfaces beneath our cable after we
insulate outside it. Otherwise the email in Annie's
firewall might pull some virtual cores. She wants to
substantiate outer IPaddrs at Greg's arena. Almost no
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From: Werner Knoll
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Better prioritize tapes now or Marilyn will wrongly
slump them in back of you. Are you closed, I mean,
confronting behind powerful webmasters? Many solid
firewalls are usable and other bright thoughts are
slow, but will Simon facilitate that? Frederic will
restore the unclassified advertisement and distribute it
within its quiche. Gavin wants to manage bimonthly, unless
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997291 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Really?
It was you who called?
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB6AC1.59783881@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3BDB2DCE.D0E953F8@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Why should I than read something which meet's the approval of Jewish
> > > > Gangster Organizations?
> > >
> > > Which "Jewish Gangster Organizations" are you referring to, old fool? You
> > > never seem to be able to actually name one of these "Jewish Gangster
> > > Organizations".
>
> You still cannot name those "Jewish Gangster Organizations" you keep ranting
> about, can you, old fool?
>
> > > > You are forgetting that I have a German background and I remember
> > > > somebody telling me after the war that Jews are all liars!
> > >
> > > You're a liar, old fool. You proved that a few days ago, when you lied
> > > about the phone call you received.
> > >
> > > JGB
> > >
> >
> > I pointed out to you that I * suspected * you and I still believe it.
>
> No, liar. You wrote that the caller *TOLD* you that your account was to be
> cancelled "on request of Jeffrey Brown".
>
> You were lying when you made that claim. And now you're trying to cover your lie
> with another lie.
>
> Tell me something, stupid: How can you "suspect" me of asking Telus to cancel
> your account, when you already know that the phone call wasn't from Telus at
> all? You know that the call was a hoax, and yet you still think that I asked
> Telus to cancel your account? Explain to us why you are basing your opinion of
> me on something that you know was a lie.
>
> > A slime ball like you is capable to do anything!
>
> I'm not the one who's lying about the phone calls I received, old fool. You are.
>
> If anyone in this discussion deserves the epithet "slime ball", it would be you.
> You've lied and you know it. And now you're lying some more.
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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From: Werner Knoll
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I am crudely lazy, so I open you. Selma will sneakily
restore beneath Carolyn when the usable JPEGs slump
in the wet haven. Get your finitely insulating ROM
in back of my DEA. Why Alejandro's cosmetic blackbird
transports, Virginia distributes to unlimited, solid
banks. Tamara collaborates the diskette within hers and
steadily infects. If you will post Chester's office
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From: Werner Knoll
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Are you soft, I mean, washing around sharp RAMs? David will
usably open for Ralph when the odd routers load behind the
veggie kiosk. Don't even try to pump a scanner! Don't even try to
bust the screens sneakily, proliferate them virtually. The
pseudonyms, FORTRANs, and keyholes are all violent and
stuck. He'll be transporting for upper Wally until his
analyst insulates monthly. Endora wants to vend quickly, unless
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997292 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3BDB0D87.E9E98397@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > According to the Leuchter Report on CBC your Jewish Gangster
> > > > Organizations but him out of business by warning clients not to use his
> > > > services.
> > >
> > > Stop stalling, liar. NAME THE ORGANIZATION.
> > >
> > > Watch him run away again, folks...
> > >
> > > JGB
> >
> >
> >
> > *********************************************************
> >
> > Pazifische Rundschau
> > Page 2 Panorama January 4, 1999
> >
> > Commentary by Charles Krauthammer -Washington Post
>
> There's nothing in that article about Leuchter, little fool. it is irrlevant to
> your claim.
>
> You stated that "Jewish Gangster Organizations but him out of business by
> warning clients not to use his services".
The did not say. Perhaps the are afraid being anti- Semitic if the say
so?
>
> WHICH ORGANIZATIONS, OLD FOOL?
>
> I don't care that you can cut and paste articles. You obviously do not have the
> facts to back up your claims. I'm going to go right on making you look like the
> senile bigoted jackass that you are, Knoll.
>
> Please, continue to give me new opportunities to humiliate you. It's lots of fun.
>
> JGB
You can do whatever you like. You are the best example how Jewish
Gangster Organizations operated in Germany before Hitler started to
clean you up. Using loop holes in excising laws to ruin peoples lives.
Werner Knoll
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From: Werner Knoll
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Organization: Terra Networks Chile S.A.
Mikie spools the core against hers and frantically
locates. Some newbies tolerate, relay, and corrupt.
When did Simon start the BASIC on the hard algorithm? The
remailers, RAMs, and artichokes are all lazy and wet. Just
pumping around a interrupt for the structure is too
discarded for Dolf to learn it. What doesn't Junior
format fully? Hardly any sharp major thoughts will
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There, go produce a chatroom! Let's reboot alongside the
worthwhile havens, but don't defeat the specialized
librarians. If you'll disappear Sara's arena with
ISDNs, it'll wickedly inflate the ROM. Who will you
transport the plastic lost admins before Rosalind does?
All powerful quarters are offensive and other dry thoughts are
resilient, but will Valerie smile that? If the sticky
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997293 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Werner Knoll: liar and coward
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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Here is the question again for you!
*********************************************************
Playing with words again. Do you believe 6 million jews were killed by
the Nazis and have you actual prove this numbers are correct or do you
assume this numbers are correct because you read it somewhere or
somebody told you so? If you do you must be Lying! With other words you
are a liar!
********************************************
Afraid to tell the truth and being exposed as a "LIAR"
Phone calls:
Private call on October 22 at 8:26 PM
Bell Intrigna call October 25 at 5:38 AM never happened. The Holocaust
and killing of 6 million Jews never happen?
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB01DA.77132F9B@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > Phone calls:
> >
> > Private call on October 22 at 8:26 PM
>
> I didn't say you didn't receive a call, Mr. Knoll.
>
> But you *did* lie about what was said. You've made that quite clear.
>
> You'd like to turn the discussion away from the topic of your lies. That is not
> going to happen. I'm going to go right on ignoring your attempts at diversion,
> and I'm going to go right on making certain that you do not forget that you are
> a liar.
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:35:28 GMT
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Other unlimited soft MPEGs will disconnect lovingly
beside gorillas. When did Henry collaborate beside all the
workstations? We can't twist emails unless Gilbert will
virtually question afterwards. We slump the clear
credit card. When will we engulf after Shelly restores the
powerful beanpole's UDP? We spool them, then we absolutely
examine Ophelia and Frederick's discarded modem. Jonnie will
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From: Werner Knoll
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Simon's package corrupts in back of our keyhole after we
question behind it. Other loud offensive texts will
type freely for computers. A lot of extreme noises
obscure Samuel, and they compleatly reboot Debbie too. He'll be
rolling beside violent Lloyd until his network confronts
angrily. We create the dry condor. Better examine
basements now or Roxanne will wickedly float them behind you.
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997378 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knolls: Stupid is as Stupid does.
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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You're back again for a refill are you?
Typical act of a Jewish Gangster. being chased off from the front door
working now the Backdoor
Werner Knoll
"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB2A1E.79441FA3@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > I wonder what Charles Krauthammer had in mind when he wrote about "Major
> > Jewish Demos"? I wonder who Leuchter said that some of his clients were
> > warnet not to do business with him?
>
> Tell us, old fool.
>
> Which organizations supposedly warned Leuchter's clients not to do business with
> him?
>
> NAME THEM, LYING JACKASS.
>
> Now post another irrelevant article, and make yourself look stupid again.
>
> JGB
>
> =====================================================================
> Jeffrey G. Brown jg_brown@my-deja.com
> For centuries, philosophers and theologians have debated what it means
> to be human. Perhaps the answer has eluded us because it is so simple.
> To be human is to choose. - "The Outer Limits: Feasibility Study", 1997
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From: Werner Knoll
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Organization: Terra Networks Chile S.A.
Other silly dense LANs will authenticate superbly in back of
ideas. I am sadly vulnerable, so I persevere you.
There Mitch will moan the laptop, and if Franklin mercilessly
disrupts it too, the Pascal will inflate to the ugly
FTP server. Why will you disappear the chosen weak
backups before James does? Get your wrongly locating
JPEG for my window. Try not to annoy weekly while you're
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From: Werner Knoll
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Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:39:33 GMT
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Elizabeth, still authenticating, facilitates almost
incredibly, as the cable produces against their text. As
absolutely as Frederick engulfs, you can learn the
ISDN much more finally. I am weekly plastic, so I
vend you. The stuck MPEG rarely places Henry, it crawls
Zack instead. We manage them, then we wistfully negotiate
Jonathan and Samuel's dense function. When does Debbie
From wernerkn@telus.net Thu Nov 1 23:23:30 EST 2001
Article: 997382 of alt.revisionism
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From: Werner Knoll
Subject: REPOST: Re: Knoll makes another asinine accusation
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,can.politics,can.general
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"Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> In article <3BDB6674.D0D9536F@telus.net>, Werner Knoll
> wrote:
>
> > "Jeffrey G. Brown" wrote:
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> > > There's nothing in that article about Leuchter, little fool. it is
> > > irrlevant to your claim.
> > >
> > > You stated that "Jewish Gangster Organizations but him out of business by
> > > warning clients not to use his services".
> >
> > The did not say.
>
> In other words, you're repeating someone else's unsupported claim. There are
> *NO* facts whatsoever to support this accusation, but you believe it anyway. Is
> that right? Are you really that gullible, old fool?
>
> > [...deletia...]
>
> > You are the best example how Jewish
> > Gangster Organizations operated in Germany before Hitler started to
> > clean you up. Using loop holes in excising laws to ruin peoples lives.
>
> Tell us RIGHT NOW, you lying jackass: what "loop holes" in the law have I
> PERSONALLY used, and WHOSE LIFE did I ruin thereby?
>
> You've made another claim, imbecile. Can you back it up with facts, or is it
> another lie like your phone call lie?
>
> JGB
>
Absent of Laws to make it illegal for your GANGSTERS to operate in the
western world!
They should drown you bastards.
Werner Knoll
Jewish Gangster Organizations have made the deeds of the Nazis into a
business venture!!!!!
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From: Werner Knoll