The Nizkor Project: Remembering the Holocaust (Shoah)

Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/kleinsorg.horst.o/1996/kleinsorg.0296


(Tagged messages in Military Forum)

#: 454180 S14/Coffee Shop
!   10-Feb-96  00:09:24
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Manfred Koch 73743,130 (X)
Replies:   2

Hallo Manfred:
Regarding the  Morgenthau  zitation :  Although very interesting, you should read the original MORGENTHAU-PLAN!!!!    and the directives for its implementation after Germany's defeat. Himmler comes out smelling like a rose.
To understand the whole situation of that time  (and today as well) takes more than just one or two affairs out of
context.  You can not discuss the MORGENTHAU-PLAN without first understanding the
           "Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
 These were written and became public at the change of the century and were the guidelines for Henry Morgenthau. Although these "Protocols" are a hundert years old, they could have been written yesterday and reflect also the developments not only in our good old USA today but the whole developed world.
Another interesting chap was the french Great Free Mason Coudenhave-Calergi. His book, "PAN EUROPE", written in 1923 gives a clear inside of what was and  IS in store for Germany and Europe as a whole.
 
Second, your attempt to reason with anyone of the younger generation from Germany 
about the 3.Reich is a futile attempt. They are so brainwashed, I wonder of they can walk in a straight line on a sidewalk. The propaganda of Dr.Goebbels during the 3.Reich was childsplay compared what goes on today over there, all in the name of freedom.  If one speaks out , you will be immediately stigmatized and demonized as a "Neo-Nazi, Holocaust Denier, anti-semite (whatever that is)etc..

Horst


#: 454578 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  10-Feb-96  21:32:22
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Franto Summer 100531,2104 (X)
Replies:   2

Hallo Franto:

>>Please, donīt come up with the "Minutes of the Elders of Zion". These was a proven - in a court case even back  in Switzerland 1934<<

I am familiar with the court case in Switzerland in 1934. Nothing was proven in this court and no ruling by the court resulted, if I remember right.

>>>The trick with the invented "Minutes" had later on a pendant: SS boss Reinhard Heydrich played in 1936  faked documents via the then Czech president Edvard Benesī office  into the hand of Stalin. "Proving" Marshal Tuchacevskj  were a German spy.<<<<

Are you now trying to blame the leadership of the 3rd Reich also for Stalins internal purges in the Soviet Army and elswhere and his murder of 50+ Million people?  How pervert can one be? I am willing to reconsider my position if you can prove to me the above statements  which you made.
Heydrichs role in 1936 was still very limited in 1936.
Horst


#: 454845 S14/Coffee Shop
    11-Feb-96  13:15:02
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   2

Hello Forrest:

I am fully aware, that the "Morgenthau Plan" officially was never implemented in  _fact_. For the first 3 years after the war the spirit prevailed until George Mashall and  Members of Congress rose against it.  The demontages of virtually any remaining industry in Germany and requisition of anything of value are only a few samples.

Henry Morgenthau and his cohorts had developed the "Directives for the Implementation", which of course were nil after Cordell Hull's and Henry Stimpson's  conversation with Roosevelt.  From Eisenhower's actions after Germany's surrender one can certainly see that the "spirit" was very much alive.  George Patton protested many times against the treatment which the german people , in particular the german POW's , received after the surrender and many american officers in the Military Government  did not go along with it.
Horst


#: 454858 S14/Coffee Shop
    11-Feb-96  14:57:10
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Andrew George Stone 100304,1013 (X)
Replies:   1

Hello Andrew:
>>>>It saddens me that most Germans and non Germans have never heard of 'The Flight' or the heroic efforts of the German Navy and Army to get the people out<<<

Me too, Andrew.  To elaborate on this is today not "political-korrect". One satisfaction is, that high officers of the Allies of WWII have, almost without exception, praised the german Military generally for its "chivalry" towards the enemy and its sacrifices under almost unbearable conditions. Naturally there were exception as in any war and I am not denying it.
I remember as a young boy in Germany in 1944, it was an american POW  in a camp near my hometown who tought me the first words in english. I slipped them homegrown tobacco to roll their own. I was almost everyday in their camp, got for them some metall to make Golfclubs from a scabpile and old shoes to make Golfballs.
Very fond memories.
 Isn't it amazing that there is almost never hate between two enemies once the fighting has stopped? Only the politicians keep try to keep it alive for whatever reason.
Horst


#: 455120 S14/Coffee Shop
    12-Feb-96  00:22:19
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Franto Summer 100531,2104 (X)
Replies:   2

>>>>>But the similiarities between Hitlerīs Nazi regime and that of Stalinīs communist is apparent.(Admitted: Latter had and has more defenders and apologists in the West than former). Cynics may see the difference in physically extinguishing their adversaries only in the difference of "efficiency" of organization between Russians and Germans. Whatīs to the commies were the "Kulaks" to the Nazis were the Jews. "Class enemy" in one case was "impure race" to the other. Proceeding with them to the same fate.<<<<<

Franto:
To a certain extent you are right. However, you have to remember that Derzhinski's CETA (Derzhinki, a polish Jew from Brest Litovs) was formed  during the bolshevik revolution before Stalin took over. Trozki, another Jew from New York's East Side)  .  It is a well established fact, that the entire political development in Russia from about 1880 onwards 'til 1917 (revolution) was inspired by the Jews. Just see the roster of the leading Revolutionaries in Russia. Stalin, although an Anti-semite (whatever that is) could not go against them  when he struggled for power after Lenin's death. Therefore he grudgingly used them as tools for his goals.

Horst


#: 455801 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  13-Feb-96  14:47:13
Sb: Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   0

>>>>>When I first ran across an article challenging the Jewish holocaust I was flabbergasted. I thought, "What kind of ignoramus would have the audacity to challenge such 'historical fact'? I decided to inquire into the matter. I purchased some Revisionist material and read it over. Keep in mind I was sure the holocaust was reality during this period and thought the authors to be fools. Well, now I understand that the holocaust is indeed a myth.<<<<<


Hello Cliff:

Welcome to the world of reality !!!   There are still too many knockleheads  especially in occupied Germany, who believe in this myth. All reasoning seems to be fruitless. And it is no surprise after the overwhelming propaganda from the international Jewry after the war. All the officials who were in a position to contradict and disproofe their accusations were killed after the war, after being "convicted" by these jewish kangeroo courts.
When Rudolf Hess was about to be released in 1987 (the last one who was able to disprove it) they murdered him being 93 years old. This is the elite of the world!!!

Horst


#: 455931 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  13-Feb-96  22:16:12
Sb: #455683-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Joe Wein 100142,3715 (X)
Replies:   2

Joel Weinstein:
It is below my dignity to discuss anything with a  LEFT-FASCIST such as you are. Who is paying you to spread this nonsense you try to make people believe?  Is it the MOSSAD or a similar organisation?
You are just too young to know about these things you try to discuss and blabber out only what  your leftwing teachers have told you.  I lived through the time. It was my generation which rebuilt Germany after the destructive war. It was our Generation which created  Germany's  "Economic Miracle", very much admired by all of Germany's former enemies as well as others. All your Generation has done is to create 4.5 Million people unemployed and living off handouts. Tremendous accomplishment on the  part of your Generation!
Stop spreading your nonsense around and learn the facts first. To do that I recommend you contact the
Institut for Historical Review
PO Box 2739
Newport Beach, CA 92659
Phone  714-631-1490
Fax   714 - 631-0981
e-mail  ihrgreg@kaiwan.com
URL   http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/

Of course, in your limited mind the IHR is also a  Nazi, Holocaust-denying, anti-semitic  bunch of liars.

Everyone knows here, that you are promoting censorship of the cyberspace because you and your Ilk are afraid of the truth. So far it has worked in Germany but the american people will never stand for it regardless how contoverisal the topic maybe. We here in the USA enjoy a freedom which you obviously were never privileged to see. God bless America!
Wake up , Joe!


#: 455932 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  13-Feb-96  22:16:20
Sb: #455522-The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: DENNIS  X. McCORMAC 102567,3466
Replies:   0

Hello Dennis:
I recommend you contact the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles. They will confirm that there were no Gas Chambers in any Kz's inside the german Reich. This was and is the propaganda which is still on today for public consumption. For the first 20 years after the war, all KZ's were supposed to have  had Gas Chambers. When this was debunked, it was stated that only Auschwitz, Maidanek and Sobibor had  Gas Chambers. This was done because the Soviets had created this lie durinmg WWII and did not want to give in to the truth.They would not permit any investigations etc..
 The Holocaust-Industry caught right on this and used it. With the opening up of russian archives now, it will not be too long before this is also debunked.
You have to realize, that it was the Soviets who pushed these lies in the Nueremberg Tribunals which sent hundreds , if not thousand innocent german officials to the gallows.
Remember the trial of Demjanuk in Israel! Now think how it was in Germany in the Chaos in the early years after the war. 
Rgds. Horst


#: 456347 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  14-Feb-96  21:31:05
Sb: Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   0

Mike:

>>> A right and proper way to enter into civilized discourse, isn't it?  Why are these people so obsessed with insulting those who don't agree with them?<<<<<

You are right, it should not be that way. The Gentleman this was addressed to , has over a period of time insulted  me and called me Names of the worst kind in the German SPIEGEL Forum. Here he comes now and tries to be Mr.Nice Guy in this Forum. Of course, with the German Censorship  I was unable to defend myself properly. I kept the arguments on the highest standards of ethics in that Forum but was very limited to what I was able to say (or write).
 
>>>>The German "Economic Miracle" certainly owes some of its success to the "Generation"  that this gentleman alludes to have been a part of. On the other hand, it also owes a great deal to the Marshall Plan, the compassion and ability to forgive of the American people.....<<<

 There is absolut no question, that  my Generation was and is grateful for America's help after the war and I will never forget it, rest assured.

>>>>If the generation that has followed his is in such bad shape, surely the previous generation must share some of the burden......<<<<

This argument I do not accept on its face value. We were not allowed and still are not allowed today, 50+ years after the war to tell the younger generation the truth without risking going to jail. This is the problem
in  Germany now. The "re-education" after the war surely did its job and very few people were unaffected by it.
Propaganda worked in the 3.Reich and it worked afterwards, let's never forget that
.
>>>> Oh dear! It would appear that the gentleman's ideology is showing. The fact that he has been  bemoaning the plight of the world and blaming it on the younger generation was only window-dressing, a ruse.  What is now apparent is that an organization that has been classified as anti-Semitic and racist by no less than the courts of the United States,.....<<<<

Yes, but look who pressed the charges and who the judges were, any wonder?

>>> Everyone knows here, that you are promoting censorship of the cyberspace because you and your Ilk are afraid of the truth. So far it has worked in Germany but the american people will never stand for it regardless how controversial the topic maybe. We here in the USA enjoy a freedom which you obviously were never privileged to see.<<<<<

Here again, it was addressed to the gentleman mentioned above. Repeatedly he has remarked that any discussion of the "HOLOCAUST" should be banned since it was a historical fact in the Spiegel Forum.

>>>>Lies wither and die in the light of truth. This is the country where freedom of expression was made into an unalienable right......<<<<

I could not agree with you more. This is why the Holocaust-Industrialists are so worried about an open discussion of that subject and try with intimidation and other methods  an open debate.

Here is an Idea, which of course will never be acceptable:

Why not create a commission, perhaps under the auspices of the UN or Red Cross or any other reputable organisation composed of true Historians, Technicians, Investigators etc. , without any Jews or Nazis participating, to investigate and issue a Report about this subject? I do not know, if it is possible to find absolut neutral people but it would be worth a try to settle the question once and for all.

Rgds.  Horst


#: 456459 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  15-Feb-96  02:34:08
Sb: #456418-#The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: DENNIS  X. McCORMAC 102567,3466 (X)
Replies:   1

Hi Dennis:

I am sorry but I really can't remember the message. Last night , by mistake I  deleted some "old"stuff and it may have gone out by accident. Would you be so kind and remind me what it was about? Thank you. Horst


#: 456752 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  15-Feb-96  21:26:10
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   2

Hello Forrest:

>>>1. Hess had no obvious connection with the Holocaust, and therefore he couldn't possibly "disprove" it.  Perhaps you are confusing him with Rudolf Hoess.<<<<<
No, I don't confuse him with Hoess.  Hess  was and is generally respected in Germany even so he was Hitlers Deputy. He had a certain credibility  within the german populace and would have been able to explain Hitlers thinking much better than anyone alive. He was with Hitler from the very beginning until his failed peace mission to England.

>>>>2. There had been a number of appeals for clemency for Hess, but they had always been vetoed by the Russians.  There is no reason to believe that he "was about to be released."<<<<

Here you go into higher politics. It was Great Britain which did not want Hess to be released and used the Soviets to veto it. If Margaret Thatcher had not been Prime Minister, he would have been released much earlier.
In this connection it is interesting to note that all the british Documents relating to Hess'  mission are sealed
until the year 2017 (72 years after the War). English Law has normally a 36 year period and it is the first and only time in british History that this period was doubled by act of parliament!
On June 16-1987 I wrote a letter to Michael Gorbatchov asking him for the sake of mercy to agree to a release of Hess after  46 years in Prison and 93 years old.  About 2 weeks later, I received a call from the Soviet Embassy here in Washington confirming that Gorbatchov had received my letter and that negotiations were under way to do so. He was murdered on August 17-87 I believe.

>>>>3. An autopsy showed that Hess had committed suicide.  (This, by the way was not his first suicide attempt.)  Despite a number of conspiracy theories, there is no reason to believe that he was murdered<<<

Here you are wrong. After Hess' body was turned over to his family, the best forensic experts in Germany did an autopsy and came to the conclusion, that he could not possibly have commited suicide. May I refer you to the book by his son Wolfgang Hess (a respected Lawyer in Munich) " Der Mord an meinem Vater". Here it is explicetly explained. Also his caretaker, a Tunesian national, confirmed that Hess was unable to lift his arms above his chest because of athritis. I believe there is also a Tape available in english where Wolfgang Hess
explains the findings etc.

Rgds. Horst


#: 456753 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  15-Feb-96  21:26:22
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   1

Hallo Cliff:
>>If you care to read the history of the concentration camps you will discover that most of the bodies were cremated in open pits not the crematoria.<<

This story came up in the 60's after it was proven that the ofens in the crematoria had indeed only a very limited capacity. The company which built the crematoria  for the SS is located in Kassel/ Germany and had all the specs. and drawings. These specs etc. are now in possession of the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz (Federal Archive). They will not release them and find all kinds of excuses. You have to be a "registered and recognized" Historian and you have to state exactly the purpose for what you need them. This should speak for itself.

>>Pyres were indeed used for the incineration of German victims at Dresden for disease control<<<

Pyres to burn airraid victims were not only used in Dresden. In my hometown Dortmund, after the
October 6-44 airraid, we collected half charcoaled bodies and parts and burnt them on wooden pyres.
The same happened in Wuppertal after the firestorm air raid.

Horst


#: 456754 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  15-Feb-96  21:26:23
Sb: #456439-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   1

Hello FranK:
I sincerely apologize for this remark. The  gentleman I addressed this to is in Germany. In the German SPIEGEL Forum he called me every name in the book and accused me of the wildest things. Because of the german censorship laws I could not defend myself without risking to be expulsed from the forum and reported to the german thought police.
Horst


#: 456888 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  16-Feb-96  03:42:29
Sb: #A Reply to Distortions
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   3

Mr. Curtis:

>>> Among the Americans who assisted in Germany's ecnonomic success were a number of Jews. What does Mr. Kleinsorg think about this?<<<<

I would never dare to deny this. For the first couple there were not the extreme horror stories galloping around as it is the case today. And then, after all, every body expects to make money from an investment, regardless whether it's Jew or Gentile.

>>>>> does not explain why his children are not as dedicated to their work-ethic as he is.  If he can, for a moment, put away all of his anti-Holocaustian rhetoric and tell us why it is that this generation is less competent on _economic_matters, he will perhaps make a valuable contribution to the discussion .<<<

There is no motivation  in the younger generation in Germany today, there are no ideals anymore, it has become a "me,me and I,I" society, nobody is interested anymore in"Gemeinwohl" (forgive me, but I do not believe there is an english word with the same meaning).  

>>>>They feel that they must resort to name calling such as Holocaust-Industrialists' and the like.<<<<

What was meant by this description is not the open debate but the Industry which has evolved around it such as movies like "Schindler's List", "Holocaust" and other moneymaking fabrications.
Rgds.
Horst Kleinsorg


#: 457353 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  17-Feb-96  15:03:13
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Manfred Koch 73743,130 (X)
Replies:   2

Hallo Manfred
>>>>There was, in almost every camp an out- break of typhoid and other deadly diseases which created havoc amongst the inmates.....<<<<

Take the case of Bergen-Belsen which nobody to my knowledge claimes, was an "extermination camp".
(This is the camp, where you see in TV everytime the "holocaust" comes up, where the Brits after Liberation in April 1945 pushed with tractors the bodies into massgraves and local citizens were herded up to view it.)

On February 6-1945 the commandant of this camp flew in civilian clothes to Stockholm with one of the last Lufthansa flights out. He talked to Count Bernadotte and Trygve Lie and explained the grave situation at the camp that he had no more food to feed the Prisoners due to the fact, that allied fighter bombers were constantly 
destoying the trains. He begged the two, to talk to the american and british Ambassadors to ask General Eisenhower to let the food go through. He offered to mark all the railroad cars with a large yellow diamond so the pilots could identify the lorries. He pointed out to Lie and Bernadotte, that HQ's in Berlin was not aware of his mission and that he had to leave Stockholm the next morning again not to create a suspicion and had to have an answer by then.
Lie and Bernadotte immediately went to the two Ambassadors and related the message. The answer from Eisenhower the next morning was NO.
The following outbreak of typhoid and cholera took its toll due to starvation and 7000 bodies were found in the open when the Brits arrived. The other inmates were too weak to even dig holes to burry them.

Horst

(I have all the documentation about this  available but due to a recent move, my entire Library is still in storage.
But I believe someone has the same available) HK.


#: 457768 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  18-Feb-96  16:25:10
Sb: #457264-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   3

Top of the Morning to you, Cliff:

Went last night to the "Welcome Home Gala Dinner" for Hans Schmidt here in Washington. Great event!
Hope you will hear more about it soon. 
I hear so much nonsense here in this forum from the "Holocaust" promoters, that I  have to doubt the intelligence of some people. They certaily do again the dirty work for the "chosen people".
See the Ninth protocol of the "Elders of Zion":
"
         .....We have misled, stupefied and demoralized the youth of the Gentiles by means of education in                             principles and theories patently false to us, but which we have inspired....."

 As I mentioned in one of my previous messages, my entire Library  is at present in storage due to a recent move. Therefore I have no acces at the present time to reference material should I be challenged of a comment I made somewhere.

Horst


#: 457769 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  18-Feb-96  16:25:17
Sb: #457518-#The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   3

  George:
 It is obvious that you do not understand what chaotic conditions existed in Germany during at least the last several month of the war. Fact is, that these camps existed and nobody, not even the most ardent revisionists deny that fact.. 
Because of the overwhelming airpower of the allies and the closeness of the Front, virtually every Truck, Train, Tram, Car , Horse and Buggy,whatever moved anywhere was immediately shot to pieces by the P 47's, P 51's and other fighter bombers of that time. Therefore shipments of food from the supply depots were almost impossible and yet some came through. What were the camp commanders to do?  Just open the gates and let 
15 or 20000 inmates fend for themselves? Whitout understanding the overall situation at that time in Germany, there can be no understanding of individual  attrocities, if you want to call it that. See also the reports by the international Red Cross concerning that time.

Being cynical about this sure does not clarify things.
Horst


#: 458028 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  19-Feb-96  04:59:27
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   1

>>>>>The crematoria had been running (often day and night) for years.  There were five crematoria in Auschwitz alone, with a daily capacity of thousands.  This would indicate that the builders had planned on a very high death rate, which could not be accounted for simply by chaotic conditions at the end of the war.
<<<<

This answer is typical and was almost expected from you. My message had nothing to do with Auschwitz whatsoever. 
However since you brought it up, please study the construction plans for the crematoria at Auschwitz I and II.
Once you have done so, get back to me. I hope you can do simple arithmethic.

>>>>Interesting that you should mention the Red Cross.  The International Red Cross was excluded from visiting Auschwitz from its construction.  That would indicate that Auschwitz was something other than a simple detention camp<<<<

Ballony!!!!
Forrest, get your info straight!!!    I will go through my records and disprove you with facts of each and every visit by representatives of the Red Cross to the Auschwitz Camps (Date and Time) . If I remember right, there were 7 or 8 inspections  in 1943 and 44.

HK


#: 458029 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  19-Feb-96  05:00:05
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   7

Frank:

>>>>> You know, your posted message sure sounds like something I'd expect to
    hear from a JEW-HATER.  Are you a JEW-HATER?  Please EXPLAIN to me what
    you meant?  Thank you.<<<<<

No Frank, I am not a JEW-HATER.  I am a devout Christian and as such I  DO NOT HATE ANYONE!
What I   _hate_ is, when somebody deliberately and with malice accuses anyone or any group or any nation  of something untrue and for his or her own benefit, regardless who it is, Jew or Gentile!

Allow me one example re. Auschwitz, always a controversial subject:

Marc Klein, a medical Professor at the University of Strassburg and an ex-inmate at  Auschwitz, published an Article in the journal " Etudes germaniques (No.3, 1946, ) 1948 pg.31):
    " On Sunday afternoons, there were soccer, basketball and waterpolo matches to the ardent cheers 
      of the spectators; people needed very little to distract them from the dangers that threatened them! 
      The SS  administration allowed regular amusements for the  prisoners even on weekdays. A movie
       theater showed Nazi newsreels and sentimental films and a very popular cabaret gave presentaions
       often attended by the SS authorities.. Finally, there was a very creditable orchestra, made up originally
       of polish musicians and replaced later by a new, high quality group made up of musicians of all
       nationalities, mostly  Jews."

This should speak for itself about the situation in Auschwitz.
Rgds.  Horst


#: 458121 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  19-Feb-96  13:28:11
Sb: #458085-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   1

>>>>>So why haven't you been arrested yet?  Stop flouting this "five years in prison" BS unless you can provide the actual German penal code that states that people can be imprisoned for exercising their rights of freedom of speech.  No?  Too bad, especially for someone who places so much emphasis on facts and quotable sources.<<<<<<<


Look up the German Penal Code  Par. 130 StGB.

Any other questions?
HK


#: 458190 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  19-Feb-96  17:48:19
Sb: Holocaust Deniers-Why?
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   0

>>>> Nobody controls the minds of free men and women unless they have
    our premission.<<

         >>>	The Nazi movement attempted to eliminate freedom of thought, did it not?<<<

And so do the Holocaust Promoters  today, don't they?

HK


#: 458192 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  19-Feb-96  17:48:23
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   1

Mr.Nagano:

>>>  Just don't let the **Nazi vultures** pick you to pieces on minor details such as four or five crematoria.  (emphasis added HK)<<<<<

Is this your whole argument? Once cornered, to ressort to calling somebody you disagree with names? Certainly not gentleman-like. I would have a long list of names and descriptions I could call you for your ridiculous postings but my ethics and good taste will not permit that.

HK


#: 458741 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:22
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   1

Mr. Nagano:

>>>>>So why haven't you been arrested yet?  Stop flouting this "five years in prison" BS unless you can provide the actual German penal code that states that people can be imprisoned for exercising their rights of freedom of speech.  No?  Too bad, especially for someone who places so much emphasis on facts and quotable sources.<<<<<


Reason, Reason, Reason: not emotion!

Please study the german penal code   :  Par.  130
                                                                         Par.   130a
                                                                         Par.    220
                                                                         Par.    220a

Once you have done so, have the courage to come back and make your points without smearing somebody
for something you obviously don't know anything about.
HK


#: 458742 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:12
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   3

>>>>   Thank you for bringing this informative article to my attention. Here is a particularly interesting part, which you left out for some reason:<<<<

It is obvious that somebody, perhaps Nizkor or Wiesenthal, is feeding you and others the stuff to publish here in the forum. That's fine with me. However, I still have to make a living and do not have the  money (sheckels) available to employ full time researchers and writers, than use private persons to publish the smear.
HK


#: 458743 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:15
Sb: #Anti-Semitic ... NOT!!!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Diane S. Sanfilippo 102546,2716 (X)
Replies:   1



>>>As I follow this thread, I not only feel a deep fear of people who think like Manfred and whats his name, but a deep sadness that they really BELIEVE what they spout.  Perhaps we should pity them, or let loose the Israeli secret police.<<<

Why not. The Israeli police has not only learned from the german Gestapo, the even have perfected what they learned.
HK


#: 458744 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:17
Sb: Anti-Semitic ... NOT!!!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   0

Frank:

>>>> Sometimes indoctrination overcomes the rational.  Education is the key, but as with the
proverbial horse, it's easier leading it to water than getting it to drink
from the font of knowledge and wisdom.<<<<

My compliments. Very well said. At least there are still some people with a clear mind yet!
Horst


#: 458745 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:19
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   1

George:
>>>>Such a tenuous grasp on details Horst sees to have at times. If someone can't keep track of the small ones, how is he to keep track of the big ones?<<<

It appears to me you can,t keep things straight anymore. We are caucasians but don't all look alike.
I have never said anything about what you attribute to me here. Just a small detai since you all try to be so perfect allthe timel!!!!!
Horst


#: 458746 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:21
Sb: #A Reply to Distortions
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   1

>>   Perhaps Horst is really bemoaning the fact that there are relatively few Germans who share his twisted ideals. <<


Really???

HK


#: 458747 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:22
Sb: And the lies Continue!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   0

 

>>> Revisionist argument #1: "The Holocaust didn't happen, and it should happen again, soon!<<<

One can clearly see, were the hatemongers are. What a shame for such a good cause.
HK


#: 458748 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:24
Sb: #Hitler Germany-Innocent
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   1

Hi Frank again:

>>>>   Flasehoods that are not challenged unfortunately have a nasty habit of
becoming accepted as truths by the uneducated.<<<<<

I really admire no t only your courage but also your wisdom. Hopefully it goes both ways.
HK


#: 458749 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:03:26
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   1

>>>> I know. Mr. McVay, the originator of Nizkor has been helping out as has Harry Mazal, Jamie McCarthy, and Brian Harmon. All of these folks helped put the sight you speak of together.<<<

What does Mr. Curtis think I could do or anyone else concerend with the truth about the Holocaust if they or I had similar help available.? 
The panik is obvious. The Holocaust promoters  their ilk had for 60 years  all the media under their control.
Now of of the sudden cyberspace became available and they could not control it. Just too bad.
Eventually the truth will prevail!!!

HK


#: 458750 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:04:00
Sb: #458207-Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   0

Frank:

At least you are a gentleman., although we may disagree on many points. This is appreciated, be sure.
Horst


#: 458751 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  20-Feb-96  21:04:02
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Frank Tansey[SEC] 76703,660 (X)
Replies:   1

Frank:

>>>>RE:"Look up the German Penal Code  Par. 130 StGB...Any other questions?"

   Yes, if what you say is true, how about posting that paragraph for ALL
of us to read.<<<<

Here is the german penal code Par. 130 StGB in its original text:
 
     Par. 130:
     Wer in einer Weise, die geeignet ist , den oeffentlichen Frieden zu stoeren, die Menschenwuerde
      anderer dadurch angreift, dass er
      1.  zum Hass gegen Teile der Bevoelkerung aufstachelt,
      2.  zu Gewalt- oder Willkuermassnahmen gegen sie auffordert oder,
      3.  sie beschimpft, boeswillig veraechtlich macht oder verleumdet,
            wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu fuenf Jahren  bestraft.

     (Following are 5+ pages of explanations )
Par. 131 continues in the same manner.

These are  Rubber Paragraphs to catch anyone you want toget for anything. Additionally you have 
Par. 220 and 220a  which specifically concern the Auschwitz  matter.

I am not a legal expert to properly translate the above but I am sure somebody in this forum has the qualifications to do so.

One thing the USA should have done after Germany's defeat was to bring the US Constitution unchanged and without any reservations to Germany. It would be a much better place today!

Horst


#: 459156 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:28
Sb: Racism + German Law
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Joe Wein 100142,3715
Replies:   0

Joe:
>>>>>The only difference between the German law and the US law therefore is the fact that "disturbing public peace" by inciting racial hatred against sections of the population is specifically prohibited by German law.<<<

It seems you are an expert on everything, even US Law. Back down, Joe, others have made fools of themselves. 

>>>>Considering your hatred against all Jews and those that you take for Jews that is obvious from your previous postings, I can understand why you would feel censored by that particular paragraph.<<<<

Smear, Smear, Smear!   The only defense left for a desparate justification of ones ignorance!

>>>P.S. If I were you, I'd read these paragraphs very carefully if you ever want to visit Germany again.<<<

Obviously the german citizen who answered me by e-mail was right when he stated:

"You can be certain that one of those (here I do not want to use his word  HK) has already reported you to the authorities. It has always been a german pasttime to denounce those they don't agree with."

HK


#: 459157 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:01
Sb: Jews and the Media
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   0

Forrest:

>>>> Really?  Tsk, tsk.  I am full of sympathy for anyone who desires knowledge.  Allow me to quote the affidavit of a witness, Shloma Gol of Vilna, sworn at Nuremberg Aug. 9, 1946:<<<

This testimony, again by an "eyewittnes" disturbs me greatly. In all my research and studies, it is the first time that I heard that members of the  **SA**  (emph.added HK)  were involved in any supposed killings in the East.
Any other proof beside this?

Horst


#: 459158 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:03
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   2

Mr. Nangano:
>>>>  I did not know that he deliberately misquoted a legitimate source.<<

Would you please elaborate what I misquoted?
HK


#: 459159 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:05
Sb: Racism + German Law
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   0

Mr. Nangano:

>>>>  Are you saying that Horst, Manfred & Co. are whining about a law that exists in many other countries?  Where do you stand on this issue?<<<

I can assure you that you have found an ardent supporter of your  smear in Joe.
HK


#: 459160 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:06
Sb: Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773
Replies:   0

Forrest:

>>>>I assure you that I am spending no one else's money but my own. I have not relied on anyone else's research. But, to turn the question around, you would appear to be citing articles that you haven't read, "research" which consists mostly of taking quotations out of context.  This is a characteristic practice of the IHR . . . Are you quoting from the IHR or other unattributed sources?<<<

I have  researched (if anyone is able to truly research it) the Holocaust Story since about 1965 without financial or other support from anyone. Yes I have IHR published material, such as books etc.
It is another question whether I agree with it. The quoted sources  found usually in the appendixes, such as specific documents, dates etc. are important. Not necessarily the  interpretation this or that specific author may or may not give.
As I have pointed out previously in other postings, my entire library is in storage at the present time due to a recent move. Therefore most is from memory at this time.
Horst


#: 459161 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:08
Sb: #Anti-Semitic ... NOT!!!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   1

Hi George:

ME: <>

YOU:  >>So the state of Israel is a Nazi plot?<<

Have you ever read the book  "The third Reich and the Palestine Question" by Francis R.Nicosia,
published by University of Texas Press, Austin?  Read it you will be surprised.
Perhaps afterwards we can discuss the matter more.
Horst


#: 459162 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:10
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   1

Hi again George:

ME  <>

YOU>>> Oh my--you weren't perhaps making the assumption that I'm not Caucasion, were you?<<<

George, you are smart enough to know what I meant.

Horst


#: 459163 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:13
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   2

Again george:

>>>  I am still waiting, however, for you to elucidate me on the chaotic situation in Germany in response to the message I sent on Sunday.<<<


>>>  a) leave the prisoners in the camp, letting the Americans overrun the camp and take responsibility for feeding them? (Let the allies take responsibility for feeding them; these people were in such a state of malnutrition anyway that it would be weeks before they could contribute anything to the allied cause)<<<

This is exactly what I mean by chaotic conditions. There was no food anymore comming through regardless if the allieds had overrun the camps at that time or a few weeks later. Only more inmates would have starved to death. Their value as to the allied cause would have been nil regardless other than for propaganda purposes.

>>>  or:
  b) shoot what prisoners you can before the Americans arrive, and then try to march the rest away to keep them from being liberated--knowing that food supply has been irregular in the past, and is unlikely to get better. Then, when American troops actually catch up with the columns, shoot what prisoners one can before running off into the woods.
  Which is the humane choice? The legal choice? <<<<<

I question very much deliberate executions of prisoners at that time to avoid falling in allied hands.
Again in the chaos of the "last days" there were  undoubtedly actions which were neither moral nor legal. Quarterbacking after 50+= years does not change this one iota.

>>>>  Odd, how such cases of extreme malnutrition of inmates seem to have been associated solely with the concentration camps, and not with prisoner of war camps. The mortality rate for British and American POWs was only a few percent--even for those captured in 1942 or earler--while mortality rates for inmates of the concentration camps was over an order of magnitude higher. Odd how these food shortages seem to have uniformly affected only some types of camps and not other types of camps.<<<<

There is an explanation for this:  *** ALL** the POW camps were under the German Army in accordance with the Geneva Convention. The vast majority of the POW camps were relatively small and located in mostly rural areas. The local  Army "Standort-Kommandant" (Local Commander)
was responsible for these camps and the food was allocated usually from close-by producers, such as farmers, dairies, bakers etc. They did not have the transportation problems. F.e. my Grandparents , who had a small farm, had to deliver every 4-5 month one hog and both in 1943 and 44  two tons of potatoes to an allied POW camp. (Just for info).
The " political" prisoners fell under the  SS and NSDAP, the camps were generally very large and the supply depots centralized for "efficiency" .  The smaller KZ's did not have as much starvation.

>>>  Perhaps it would be much easier not to be cynical if, perhaps, many of the prisoners liberated by the 90th Infantry Division had not been moved not once, twice, but three times in the six weeks preceding their eventual liberation--From Buchenwald, to Dachau, to Flossenburg, to Posing, 125 miles from Flossenburg. Perhaps, if <> it would have been possible to move the inmates to the depots<<<<

Again, George, I do not try to justify anything, but the Chaos at that time has to be understood to make a judgement now. Nobody knew what to do anymore. 

>>>>  Perhaps it would be much easier not to be cynical if there had not been reports of malnutrition in the camps as early as the spring of 1943 from the few who had escaped--when the German transportation net was still quite effective.<<<

Now here I have to disagree somewhat. I am not saying that the inmates in the camps got Steak and French Fries, but generally food was available in 1943.
Perhaps these were the same escapees who reported to Roosevelt and the War Mobilzation Board that the Nazis gassed and cremated already 6 Million in 1941!! Take this with a grain of Salt!!

Horst


#: 459164 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  21-Feb-96  18:50:15
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   2

George:

>>> Do you read French, Horst--or know someone who can read it? If so, I would be more than happy to send you a copy of Klein's article. Then perhaps we can discuss your conclusions regarding some other passages from Klein.<<<

Thank you George. Yes, I read and speak french reasonably well and have the Klein Article in my Library, which is, as i mentioned before at present in storage.
HK


#: 459540 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  22-Feb-96  17:24:21
Sb: #Jews and the Media
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   1

Forrest:

ME:>>In all my research and studies, it is the first time that I heard that members of the **SA**  (emph.added HK)  were involved in any supposed killings in the East.

YOU:....>>>I don't think that Shloma Gol of Vilna was an expert on the various Nazi formations (which were a multitude). Perhaps he assumed that anyone wearing a brown uniform was SA.  I know that there were other other Nazi formations that wore brown uniforms, but I'm not exactly an expert; maybe someone else here can offer an opinion.<<<<

The only Organisations beside the SA which had  "brown" uniforms were the RAD (Reichsarbeitsdienst)
and the OT  (Organisation Todt) both of them were  Labor Services never involved in anything in question here.
Oh yes, I forgot, there was the "Hitler Jugend"  14-16 year olds, maybe it was them.

Horst




	As far as the actual executive actions are concerned, the Commandos
	of the Einsatzgruppe have liquidated around 80,000 persons up to now.


#: 461345 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  26-Feb-96  16:26:20
Sb: #460975-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773
Replies:   1

Hi Forrest:
The entire Hoess "confession" should be thrown in a wastepaper basket by both, the Promoters and Revisionists. It is of absolutely no historical and factual value considering the circumstances it was obtained under.
Horst


#: 461346 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  26-Feb-96  16:26:24
Sb: #461277-The Holocaust - Not III
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773
Replies:   0

Hi Forrest:
I think, that for all the trees you don't see the forest!

When the Leuchter report came out, the first one ever to create  discomfort to the Holocaust promoters, they did not attack his report, because it was factual, but the attacked Leuchter as a person.
"if you don't like the message, kill the messenger!"   Sorry, it did not work for them.  Of course other experts who came to the same conclusions are all Nazis and Neo-Nazis. Perhaps only Holocaust Deniers.
Everyone who questions the jewish propaganda re. Holocaust, naturally has to be labeled and stigmatized as one of the above.
Simple, isn't it?
Horst


#: 461347 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  26-Feb-96  16:26:26
Sb: #460990-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   1

Mr.Curtis:
Nothing is accomplished by being arrogant to another Forum Member. When ever you cornered with your
diatribe, you come up with " what's the point?", or you try to get to a totally unrelated topic which has nothing to do with the issue at hand at the moment. Nice tactic, but others are no dummies either .
Horst


#: 462205 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  28-Feb-96  12:42:20
Sb: #461879-#The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Andrew George Stone 100304,1013 (X)
Replies:   1

Andrew:
Please study the  POW camp at Rheinhausen. This will really open your eyes. I am sure you will receive no anwers from anybody on this subject. Why? The former german soldiers do not  have a Wiesenthal Center, Holocaust Museum, Mike Curtis's or Nizkor  and other assorted  propaganda agencies available for promotion.
Horst


#: 462206 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  28-Feb-96  12:42:23
Sb: #461930-#The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Forrest Johnson 71061,773 (X)
Replies:   1

Forrest:
That is the lamest explanation I have seen in a long time.


#: 462480 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  02:38:27
Sb: #462399-#Allied Crimes, never
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   3

Cliff:

It is amazing to see how the Holocausters  are desperately trying to  shut up all  critics. Regardless, if they can't win on the merits of the argument, they ressort to personal attacks.

The question is very simple:   WHO  HAS SOMETHING TO LOSE OR WHO HAS SOMETHING TO WIN?
 The Revisionsist have nothing to gain, not a single cent except the truth. Moreover they almost pay for everything out of their own pocketts.
The Holocausters however have everything to lose. The exposure of their lies, public funding of the Halloween House on Washington's Mall, all kinds of taxbreaks for donations to their cause, the anual payment of 4.8 Billion Dollar to Israel most likely, because they could not hold the Holocaust ax any longer over the heads of the american people and the politicians and much more.
Horst


#: 462481 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  02:39:05
Sb: #The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Mike Curtis 76711,3360 (X)
Replies:   1

Mr.Curtis:
>>>> Spell it out for us dummies, Mr. Stone.<<<<

Self recognizing is the first step to ones betterment.
HK


#: 462482 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  02:39:09
Sb: #462395-#Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   4

Cliff:

I participated for about 3 weeks in the german SPIEGEL forum until the sysop asked me not to post anymore. I am  _not_  red-flagged and still read it every day.
I stayed with my postings well within the german law, I believe I am smart enough for that. That forum is filthy and dominated with the same breed as here.
My point:
Up to this day, I have received  38 e-mails from people who would love to participate in the SPIEGEL Forum but are afraid they might be arrested since all the fora are read by the political Police or one can say the new Gestapo. This is the freest  state on german soil ever!

Yes, I received also 9 e-mails spewing the usual garbage and even threatening me personally.
I am scared to death!
Horst


#: 462483 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  02:39:12
Sb: #462401-#Jews and the Media
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Cliff G. Swiger 76053,707 (X)
Replies:   2

Cliff:

You can not use logic here. Logic is only reserved for the Holocausters.
Just see the "Evidence" which was presented in the Demjanuk  trial in Israel. It speaks for itself.
 Now transpose this to a defeated Germany in 45-46 where the defendants had no access to any documents of their choice, but only what the prosecution permitted them to see.
 Even the most stupid and indoctrinated person should be able to come to a conclusion.
The IMT's were nothing more than kangoroo courts used for propaganda purposes.
Horst


#: 462654 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  14:55:05
Sb: #Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: R. G. Graves (Sec Ldr) 70651,462 (X)
Replies:   2

Mr.Graves:

>>>>  The "breed" which dominates here are VETERANS.  Not "Black Veterans" nor "White Veterans" nor "Jewish Veterans" nor any other predicate preceeding "Veteran."  Be carefull when throwing slurs about amongst veterans, sirrah. By our service we have demonstrated that we are not parlor pinks.<<<

In no way was the word "breed" meant as a slur  towards _any_ veteran regardless which predicate would apply. I have nothing but the deepest respect for _any_ veteran regardless on which side he or she fought or served honorably. I am a veteran myself. 
What was meant by breed are people doing the same twisting of  factual occurrences in history by both sides of the issue and to justify their interpretations of  so called evidence etc.
If I created the wrong impression by choosing this unfortunate description, I sincerely apoligize to any and all in the forum who may have been offended by it.
Horst


#: 462655 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  14:55:10
Sb: #462423-#The Holocaust - NOT!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Andrew George Stone 100304,1013 (X)
Replies:   1



Andrew:
>>>You cannot balance crimes by numbers alone. The morality of the situation is the same whether you murder 5 or 5 million. A murderer is a murderer.<<<<

Well said!

HK


#: 462656 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  14:55:12
Sb: #Allied Crimes, never
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: George Minde 70550,623 (X)
Replies:   2

George:

>>>>Yes, a fair question....Just think of how much it would benefit the neo-Nazi movement if it could deny the genocide commtted by it's forebears and have it believed...how much easier it would be to dupe people into joining it if they could first get them to believe their Revisionist" Big Lie.<<<

I do believe, regardless of  prove or denial of the Holocaust, its numbers and whatever, that there would be any benefit to any Nazi movement. IMHO Nazism is a dead horse, regardless if the Holocaust  stands as it is today proclaimed or gets disproved sometimes down the pike.
Horst


#: 462657 S14/Coffee Shop
 0  29-Feb-96  14:55:14
Sb: Allied Crimes? Never!
Fm: HORST O. KLEINSORG 103512,2230
To: Aaron Nagano 72624,443 (X)
Replies:   0

>>>Now what breed might you be referring to?  If you mean what I think you do, then your comments are violations of German law<<<<

Please see my response to R.G.Graves.

The discussion in the SPIEGEL  forum was about  Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Opinion and Freedom of Information for the individual. Inalienable rights guaranteed free men under the first ammendment.
This Freedom does not exist in Germany today. When I fight for this principle, I proudly will violate german law.
Horst



Home ·  Site Map ·  What's New? ·  Search Nizkor

© The Nizkor Project, 1991-2012

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and to combat hatred. Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.