Archive/File: holocaust/deniers kleim.0994 Last-Modified: 1994/09/26 Article 15814 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Kleim does it again! What a card! Date: 1 Sep 1994 19:52:28 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 11 Message-ID: <345bds$q74@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <1994Aug26.email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com>,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Richard Schultz writes: >>I'm not going to get into a debate with you over this. >I can see why. No you don't. First, I don't have the time to waste on this issue, and secondly, I'm not going to Madison or Milwaukee to look at a copy of the book again. Article 15815 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Kleim does it again! What a card! Date: 1 Sep 1994 19:58:05 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 45 Message-ID: <345bod$q74@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <email@example.com> <1994Aug25.firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <1994Aug26.firstname.lastname@example.org>,<email@example.com> <3420o9$hku@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,
Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Jamie McCarthy responds to me: >> 1, I never said the book was an authoritative source. It is useful in that it >> is friendly to your side, yet contradicts many of the claims made by >> earlier "historians" regarding the subject. >> 2, most of the material I found favorable to my stance was in the appendix, >> not the main text, which was essentially cheap commentary. >> 3, like most works on World War II published by the Establishment, it has >> a "proper" slant against the Germans. >> It also says exactly what I claimed it did. Depends on whether you read the >> book with the author's bias already being "accepted fact" or not. I didn't >> pay much attention to his "commentary," which is essentially what most of the >> book is. >> I'm not going to get into a debate with you over this. The reader may judge >> whether the book is of value and presents material which contradicts the >> "standard" view of Ukrainian-German relations by READING IT HIM/HERSELF. >I want to be sure I have this straight, Mr. Kleim. >Your claim is that, because: >(1) the book presents quotes from Nazis saying that they were going to >keep the Ukraine for themselves, >(2) the book was written by someone who's not sympathetic to the Nazi cause, >you conclude >(3) the Nazis were going to give the Ukraine back. >Is that right? If not, what don't I understand? Well Jamie, you DON'T have it straight. The book is an Establishment written and produced book. It contains material which contradicts the orthodox dogma of the what happened in Ukraine. That's the only value in reading the book. I had originally read the book hoping the author, being "foreign" (i.e. not American, British, or German), would have had an objective perspective. While he wasn't as bad as some of the professional liars calling themselves histor- ians, his work was slanted enough. Article 15816 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Hitler, Poison Gas, and Jews (was: Re: Mr. Rave Date: 1 Sep 1994 20:02:00 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 13 Message-ID: <345bvo$q74@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org.Brown.EDU> <1994Aug31.email@example.com>,<firstname.lastname@example.org.Brown.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Danny Keren writes: >Well, what do our "revisionist scholars" have to say about this - Hitler >expressing his wish that Jews be exposed to poison gas? They are not >going to claim this one is a forgery, are they? Nope. Hitler _did_ write something to the effect that if the Weimar Traitors (mostly Jews) would have been attacked with chemical weapons (as Hitler himself was), Germany would not have lost the War. I don't remember the exact quotation, but I can surely look it up -- and I certainly will. Article 15817 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: A Modest Proposal Date: 1 Sep 1994 20:07:45 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 26 Message-ID: <345cah$q74@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <email@example.com>, Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Deaddog addresses Tim McCarthy: >Tim, melodrama aside, what do you think we'd find if we scoured the >walls of the gas chambers and used the polymerase chain reaction to >amplify the residue? How many different restriction fragment >polymorphisms do you think would be present? A few? Hundreds? >Thousands? Millions? And since it is likely that only extreme >volumes of bodily fluids could result in the (excuse the phrase) >impregnation of the wall with enough DNA to remain 50 years later, >what would this say about *exactly* what went on in those >chambers? >The dead may still speak, Tim. And I think they would call you a >liar. Well, you're writing to Tim, but I'll throw in my thoughts as well. Let's have a full archaeological expedition to Auschwitz and the other camps. Both Holocaust Mythologists and Revisionists on the team. Let's find out if there is ANY trace of the alleged homicidal gas chambers being used for murder. The first group to oppose any further scientific examination of the alleged "extermination centers" to confirm or dismiss the charges of genocide would not be Revisionists, but the Jews. They'd scream it would be "desecration." Article 15845 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!nic.smsu.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: For Mr. Baglow's benefit Date: 2 Sep 1994 15:23:45 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 710 Message-ID: <347g21$fb@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu The Soul of Jack London (II) by Dietrich Wolf We saw in the first part of this study that virtually all of Jack London's writing, even his earliest work, gave explicit expression to his strong racial consciousness. Despite his otherwise very healthy racial and philosophical views, however, London's understanding of the Jews required a long time to ma- ture. He was certainly well acquainted with members of that race through the radical socialist circles to which he belonged, where they abounded. He viewed them as clever, aggressive, and hard working, as well as dedicated leaders in the struggle for the betterment of the proletariat, and so it was difficult for him to think entirely ill of them. Later, however, his disenchantment with the socialist movement seemed to proceed apace with the growth of his understanding of the true nature of the Jew. At the beginning of his writing career London established a close intel- lectual relationship with the Jewess, Anna Strunsky, whom he met in the social- ist-Bohemian circles of San Francisco. Jack described her as "a Russian Jewess who happens to be a genius. She had immigrated with her Red-activist parents from Czarist Russia. Jack and Anna eventually became close friends, and it seems that he was briefly on the verge of falling in love with her, while still bound in his unhappy first marriage to Bess Maddern. Anna, however, never had any romantic inclinations, and the relationship remained strictly platonic -- an affair of the minds only. Once divorced from the bland Bess, Jack soon married the more fun-loving and independent Charmian Kitteridge; and Anna remained as she always had been -- a woman with whom he could argue intelligently. Jack and Anna were two opposites, in both race and mind, and the fair Teu- ton and the dark Jewess argued greatly on all subjects. Among other things, Anna scolded Jack for his accumulation of material possessions and for his brash statement that he would write for money and show the capitalists a thing or two. Anna, who was from a well-to-do family and would eventually marry mil- lionaire socialist William Walling English, ironically argued that no real so- cialist could hoard up his money until he had a fortune, because his compas- sion for the less fortunate would force him to give it away as soon as he earn- ed it. By late 1900 their letters arguing the nature of love evolved into a lit- erary collaboration. Jack, using the nom de plume "Herbert Wace," would dis- cuss love from the biological viewpoint. And Anna, writing as "Dane Kempton," would argue love from the emotional perspective. The Kempton-Wace Letters was published in 1903, and it remains one of the oddest books ever written. A personal incident a few years later, in 1910, gives us some insight into the changed attitude toward Jews which London had been developing in the inter- im. After being beaten up by a San Francisco bar owner as the result of a mis- understanding, he brought charges against his assailant, but they were thrown out of court by a Jewish judge, George Samuels -- who just happened to own the land on which the bar stood. Infuriated, London denounced Samuels as "a dark, sinister Hebrew judge who . . . [draws] his inspiration from the cruelty of the old scriptures." In a letter to Charmian, referring to Judge Samuels, Jack wrote: "Dear Woman, the more I think of that cowardly, oily Jew, the angrier do I get about it." And in a letter to Samuels himself he wrote: "You played the cheap, un- fair, bullying game that police judges and magistrates have played in the Anglo-Saxon world for a score of generations before you and yours entered said Anglo-Saxon world and embraced its unfair practices." Jack reiterated his at- tack in another letter to Charmian, referring to the judge as "Samuels, a shee- ny shoe peddler." That his understanding of the Jews still had not crystallized, however, and that he still was not ready to acknowledge fully and forthrightly at an in- tellectual level the visceral antipathy he felt for that race and had manifest- ed in his reaction to Samuels, is illustrated by something he wrote the follow- ing year. The September 22, 1911, issue of The American Hebrew and Jewish Mes- senger ran an article entitled "The Jew in English Fiction," which was a sym- posium of letters solicited from a number of prominent authors on the subject of their depiction of Jews in their writing. The Jews were up to their age-old game of "sensitizing" their Gentile hosts. In this case the implied suggestion was that, in order to be fair, Gentile writers should bend over backward to avoid any negative portrayal of a Jew. London had been asked to contribute to the symposium, and he sent the following response: "I have no recollection of having made a Jew serve a mean fictional function. But I see no reason why I should not, if the need and the setting of my story demanded it. I cannot reconcile myself to the attitude that in humor and fic- tion the Jew should be a favored race, and therefore be passed over, or used only for his exalted qualities. . . . . . I am a terrific admirer of the Jews; I have consorted more with Jews than with any other nationality; I have among the Jews some of my finest and nob- lest friends; . . . it is as unfair for a writer to make villains of all races except the Jews, as it is to make villains only of Jews. To ignore the Jew in the matter of villainy is so invidious an exception as to be unfair to the Jews." Actually, London already had portrayed the Jew in a despised or villainous role in some of his works, and he would do so with increased frequency and con- viction in the years to come. The outstanding example is The Mutiny of the Els- inore, in which he appropriately cast the scheming Semite as the sinister foe of the noble Aryan. London wrote his two best and most important racial-ideological novels during the last four years of his life. The Valley of the Moon, published in 1913, and The Mutiny of the Elsinore, published in 1914, are powerful literary works whose theme is the uncertain future of the White race. It was during these last years of his life that race became an overriding obsession with him. During the same period he also achieved a mature understanding of the Jew's role in the world. The idea of the unconquerable Teuton projected in the much earlier A Daughter of the Snows is replaced in The Valley of the Moon and The Mutiny of the Elsinore with the recognition that the White race is not invulnerable and that it is granted no divine guarantee of survival. London, in deteriorating health, had become aware of his own mortality by this time, and this may have awakened him to the mortal threats to the race itself. In The Valley of the Moon the heroine is Saxon Brown. Her first name was intended to symbolize the purity and strength of her ancestors. When Saxon first meets her future husband, Billy Roberts, they talk about their racial heritage. Billy remarks that "Saxon" is a peculiar name. Saxon responds: "My mother gave it to me. . . . The Saxons were a race of people -- she told me all about them when I was a little girl. They were wild, like Indians, only they were white. And they had blue eyes, and yellow hair, and they were awful fighters. . . . ". . . We're Saxons, you an' me, an' Mary, an' Bert . . . ." As Saxon looks through a scrapbook of her mother's, containing depictions of historical paintings, one of the paintings reminds her of the similarity be- tween her Teutonic ancestors and the man who will become her mate: "Between bold headlands of rock and under a gray cloud-blown sky, a dozen boats, long and lean and dark, beaked like monstrous birds, were landing on a foam-whitened beach of sand. The men in the boats, half naked, huge-muscled and fair-haired, wore winged helmets. In their hands were swords and spears, and they were leaping, waist-deep, into the sea-wash and wading ashore. Opposed to them, contesting the landing, were skin-clad savages, unlike Indians, however, who clustered on the beach or waded into the water to their knees. The first blows were being struck, and here and there the bodies of the dead and wounded rolled in the surf. One fair-haired invader lay across the gunwale of a boat, the manner of his death told by the arrow that transfixed his breast. In the air, leaping past him into the water, sword in hand, was Billy. There was no mistaking it. The striking blondness, the face, the eyes, the mouth were the same. . . . Somewhere out of the ruck of those warring races had emerged Billy's ancestors, and hers . . . . In the novel London attacks the socialists as dreamers and foreigners. Billy says, "I for one won't stand for a lot of fat Germans an' greasy Russian Jews tellin' me how to run my country . . . ." Democracy also is attacked, as being "the dream of the stupid peoples": ". . . [D]emocracy is a lie, an enchantment to keep the work brutes content, just as religion used to keep them content. When they groaned in their misery and toil,they were persuaded to keep on in their misery and toil by pretty tales of a land beyond the skies where they would live famously and fat while the clever ones roasted in everlasting fire. Ah, how the clever ones must have chuckled! And when that lie wore out, and democracy was dreamed, the clever ones saw to it that it should be in truth a dream, nothing but a dream." The Valley of the Moon is a novel about blood and soil. Saxon and Billy are the descendants of a great people, but they are trapped as members of the working class in the young Industrial Age. Newly married and entangled in la- bor problems, Saxon decides that they must flee the city of Oakland to escape the spiritually unhealthy urban environment and the massive influx of non-White labor from Asia and the increased numbers of Mediterranean types from southern Europe. She realizes that they must return to the soil for their racial and spiritual rejuvenation: "Her mind was made up. The city was no place for her and Billy, no place for love or for babies. The way out was simple. They would leave Oakland. It was the stupid that remained and bowed their heads to fate. But she and Billy were not stupid. They would not bow their heads. They would go forth and face fate. Where, she did not know. But that would come. The world was large.... The world was free to her and Billy as it had been free to the wandering generations be- fore them. It was only the stupid who had been left behind everywhere in the race's wandering. The strong had gone on. ". . . Always had her race been land-hungry, and she took delight in believing she had bred true; for had not she, despite her life passed in a city, found this same land-hunger in her? And was she not going forth to satisfy that hun- ger, just as her people of old time had done, as her father and mother before her?" Saxon and Billy settle on a farm in the Valley of the Moon, an exception- ally scenic gorge on the American River, a few miles south of San Francisco, which was the site of London's own ranch: the place where he himself had re- turned to the soil. When the novel ends Saxon is heavy with child, symbolizing hope for the future of the race. But London expresses his uncertainty about that future in the following, as Saxon recalls a lithograph that she had seen when she was a young girl: "It was of a Plains Indian, in paint and feathers, astride his horse and gazing with wondering eye at a railroad train rushing along a fresh-made track. The Indian had passed, she remembered, before the tide of new life that brought the railroad. And were Billy and his kind doomed to pass, she pondered, before this tide of life, amazingly industrious, that was flooding in from Asia and Europe?" The Mutiny of the Elsinore, which followed The Valley of the Moon by only a year, is a starkly foreboding novel depicting the struggle for survival of the Aryan in the face of the revolt of the world's Untermenschen, led by the Jew. The ship, the Elsinore, named after the tragedy-ridden castle in Shake- speare's Hamlet, is a microcosm of the world. The blond Aryans comprise the heroic officer class of the ship, while the darker breeds and degenerate blonds comprise the crew. The Aryans must withstand a mutinous revolt, led by a Semit- ic-Mediterranean trio from New York City. The latter are introduced early in the book as they board the ship. One of them, "Nosey" Murphey, has the following encounter with the Aryan officer, Mr. Pike: ""What's your name -- you?" Mr. Pike barked at the first of the trio, evident- ly a hybrid Irish-Jew. Jewish his nose unmistakably was. Equally unmistakable was the Irish of his eyes, and jaw, and upper lip. Bert Rhine, "in whose veins ran God alone knows what Semitic, Babylonish, and Latin strains," and "who looked the admixture of all that was Mediterranean and Semitic," is the leader of the trio. The third member, "Kid" Twist, is "a dark-eyed, olive-skinned fellow ... from southern Italy -- from Naples, or even Sicily." The only other Semitic character in the story, and one who will side with the mutiny, is introduced in the following: ""One more, sir, a sheeny. I didn't know his name before, but Mr. Pike got it -- Isaac B. Chantz. I never saw in all my life at sea as many sheenies as are on board the Elsinore right now. Sheenies don't take to the sea, as a rule. We've certainly got more than our share of them." The story is written through the eyes of the young Aryan officer, Pat- hurst. He makes the following observation, voicing the theme of the book and London's own racial concerns: "Every one of us who sits aft in the high place is a blond Aryan. For'ard, leavened with a ten per cent of degenerate blonds, the remaining ninety per cent of the slaves that toil for us are brunettes. They will not perish ... they will inherit the earth . . . . "And I look at the four of us at the table -- Captain West, his daughter, Mr. Pike, and myself -- all fair-skinned, blue-eyed, and perishing, yet mastering and commanding, like our fathers before us, to the end of our type on the earth. Ah, well, ours is a lordly history, and though we may be doomed to pass, in our time we shall have trod on the faces of all peoples, disciplined them to obedience, taught them government, and dwelt in the palaces we have compelled them by the weight of our own right arms to build for us." Captain West is referred to as "the blond Aryan master, the king, the Sam- urai," while the crew is described as being "a nightmare spawn of creatures, assumably human, but malformed, mentally and physically, into the caricatures of men." Pathurst relates his racial pride when Mr. Pike fearlessly rescues two of the crew during a severe storm: "I knew augustness and pride as I gazed -- pride that my eyes were blue, like his; that my skin was blond, like his; that my place was aft with him, and with the Samurai, in the high place of government and command. I nearly wept with the chill of pride that was akin to awe and that tingled and bristled along my spinal column and in my brain. As for the rest -- the weaklings and the reject- ed, and the dark-pigmented things, the half-castes, the mongrel-bloods, and the dregs of long-conquered races -- how could they count? My heels were iron as I gazed on them in their peril and weakness. Lord! Lord! For ten thousand gener- ations and centuries we had stamped upon their faces and enslaved them to the toil of our will." Pathurst again lauds Mr. Pike, much later, with: "How Nietzsche, with his eternal slogan of `Be hard! Be hard!,' would have delighted in Mr. Pike!" Events of the voyage bring Pathurst's ancestral past to the fore: "It is nothing new. I have been here before. In the lives of all my fathers have I been here. The frost is on my cheek, the salt bites my nostrils, the wind chants in my ears, and it is an old happening. I know, now, that my fore- bears were Vikings. I was seed of them in their own day. With them I have raid- ed English coasts, dared the Pillar of Hercules, forayed the Mediterranean, and sat in the high place of government over the soft, sun-warm peoples. I am Hengist and Horsa; I am of the ancient heroes even legendary to them." Bert Rhine and his cohorts, the "ripened product of the New York City in- ferno," organize and maintain the mutiny, which achieves a peculiar result. The Aryan officers manage to hold off the dark horde and maintain control of the "high place," and thus the steering of the ship. And the mutinous crew controls the deck, and thus the motive power. Near the end of the book, Bert Rhine, the Semitic mongrel and leader of the revolt, sneeringly suggests to Pathurst the possible fate of his beautiful Aryan woman, the daughter of Captain West. Pathurst's response is the most re- vealing and most moving passage in the book: "And I knew anger. Not ordinary anger, but cold anger. And I caught a vision of the high place in which we had sat and ruled down the ages in all lands, on all seas. I saw my kind, our women with us, in forlorn hopes and lost endeavors, pent in hill fortresses, rotted in jungle fastnesses, cut down to the last one on the decks of rocking ships. And always, our women with us, had we ruled the beasts. We might die, our women with us; but, living, we had ruled. It was a royal vision I glimpsed.... It was the sacred trust of the seed, the bequest of duty handed down from all ancestors. "And I flamed more coldly. It was not red-brute anger. It was intellectual. It was based on concept and history; it was the philosophy of action of the strong and the pride of the strong in their strength. Now at last I knew Nietzsche. I knew the rightness of the books, the relation of high thinking to high conduct, the transmutation of midnight thought into action in the high place on the poop of a coal carrier in the year nineteen thirteen, my woman beside me, my slant- eyed servitors under me, the beasts beneath me and beneath the heel of me. I knew at last the meaning of kingship. "My anger was white and cold. This subterranean rat of a miserable human, crawling through the bowels of the ship to threaten me and mine! A rat in the shelter of a knothole making a noise as beastlike as any rat ever made!" Shortly after this incident, Bert Rhine, the Semitic rat, has a bucket of sulfuric acid tossed in his face. His resultant excruciating torment makes ex- ceptionally delightful reading. The book ends with the Elsinore nearing port, the rebellious crew eager to reach shore, and Pathurst eager to see them in jail. The Aryan has survived, at least temporarily. Many good members of the race have died in the struggle, however, and there seems an infinite supply of rats and lesser-breeds for fu- ture confrontations. Pathurst and Margaret, the daughter of the dead captain, have decided to marry in the face of an uncertain future. London summarizes the pessimistic but heroic outlook in the following thoughts of Pathurst: "Yes, I am a perishing blond, and a man, and I sit in the high place and bend the stupid ones to my will; and I am a lover, loving a royal woman of my own perishing breed, and together we occupy, and shall occupy, the high place of government and command until our kind perishes from the earth." In 1915, the year before London's death, The Star Rover was published. It is an interesting novel, in which London relates the harshness of prison life. It is written through the eyes of the character Darrell Standing, a former pro- fessor of agronomy at the University of California who is serving a life sen- tence for the murder of a fellow professor, committed during a surge of anger over some private matter. To escape the pain and confinement of prison, he has developed the ability, real or imagined, to remove his spirit from his physic- al body and rove the stars, transcending both time and space. In one such roving he travels back in time to the period of Christ, as Ragnar Lodbrog, a Teuton captured and made slave by the Roman legions, even- tually to become a freeman and a Roman soldier. He travels to Jerusalem to wit- ness the religious madness of the Jews and meets with Pontius Pilate, whom he had known before the latter became the "procurator over the Semitic volcano of Jerusalem." The piece is essentially an attack on Judeo-Christianity, illus- trating the foreignness of Levantine thought to the European peoples. Darrell Standing describes his journey in the following: "It was my observation that it was the custom of the country for every man to call every other man a madman. In truth, in my judgement, they were all mad. There was a plague of them. They cast out devils by magic charms, cured dis- eases by the laying on of hands, drank deadly poisons unharmed, and unharmed played with deadly snakes -- or so they claimed. They ran away to starve in the deserts. They emerged howling new doctrine, gathering crowds about them, form- ing new sects that split on doctrine and formed more sects. "By Odin," I told Pilate, "a trifle of our northern frost would cool their wits. . . .Never were such troublemakers. Everything under the sun was pious or impious to them. They, who were so clever in hair-splitting argument, seemed incapable of grasping the Roman idea of the State....In Jerusalem, that last time I rode in, it was easy to note the increasing excitement of the Jews. They ran about in crowds, chattering and spouting. Some were proclaiming the end of the world. Others satisfied themselves with the imminent destruction of the Temple. And there were rank revolutionists who announced that Roman rule was over and the new Jewish kingdom to begin." Ragnar encounters Miriam, a Jewess who "was an aristocrat by nature." The Teuton develops something of an affection for her, although they spend all of their time arguing their two very different views of life, seemingly mimicing London's own earlier closeness to the Jewess Anna Strunsky. Miriam asks him where his spirit will go upon death, which sparks a conversation that empha- sizes the differences of character and soul between the Teuton and this Jewess who is the embodiment of Judeo-Christian thought: "'As I have said, Valhalla,' I answered. 'And my body shall be there, too.' "'Eating? -- drinking? -- fighting?' "'And loving,' I added. 'We must have our women in heaven, else what is heaven for?' "'I do not like your heaven,' she said. 'It is a mad place, a beast place, a place of frost and storm and fury.' "'And your heaven?' I questioned. "'Is always unending summer, with the year at the ripe for the fruits and flow- ers and growing things.' "I shook my head and growled: 'I do not like your heaven. It is a sad place, a soft place, a place for weaklings and eunuchs and fat, sobbing shadows of men.' "'My heaven,' she said, 'is the abode of the blessed.' "'Valhalla is the abode of the blessed,' I asserted. 'For look you, who cares for flowers where flowers always are? In my country, after the iron winter breaks and the sun drives away the long night, the first blossoms twinkling on the melting ice-edge are things of joy, and we look, and look again.' "'And fire!' I cried on. 'Great glorious fire! A fine heaven yours where a man cannot properly esteem a roaring fire under a tight roof with wind and snow a-drive outside....We build roof and fire to go forth from into the frost and storm and to return to from the frost and storm. Man's life is fashioned for battle with frost and storm.'" Their differences pronounced, the Teuton leaves the Jewess and departs the land of the Jews. Ragnar remarks: "Quickly enough will come the dark, and you depart for your coasts of sun and flowers and I for the roaring table of Val- halla." Jack London was a fervent and active member of the American socialist movement for many years. He, however, possessed a radically different interpre- tation of socialist doctrine from that of the mainstream of the movement. Fred- erick Palmer, who served with him as a war correspondent during the Russo-Jap- anese War, described him in his autobiography, With My Own Eyes, as: ". . . the most inherently individualistic and un-Socialistic of all the So- cialists I have ever met. . . . [H]e preferred to walk alone in aristocratic aloofness, and always in the direction he chose no matter where anybody else was going. He had his own separate mess and tent: general and private of his army of one, he rode in front of his two pack-donkeys, which jingled with bells, the leader bearing an American flag." For London, socialist internationalism extended only to the brotherhood of the White man. On his return from the Russo-Japanese War he delivered a tirade against the Orientals in an address to the Oakland chapter of the Socialist Party. One of the auditors, Edmundo Peluso, recalled the event: "With evident pleasure, he described the wiliness of these "human burnt cand- les," as he called the officers of the Japanese General Staff, and used strong- er expressions with regard to them. But his gorge rose not only at the Japan- ese General Staff; he cursed the entire yellow race in the most outrageous terms. Some of the comrades present were somewhat embarrassed." The struggle against race prejudice, especially against hatred of the "yellow" races, was part of the daily work of the socialist branches on the Pacific Coast and it was hard to conceive of Jack London, one of the foremost members of the branch, evincing race chauvinism. Convinced that there was some misunderstanding, one of the comrades began talking to him about classes that exist in Japan as everywhere else. Another called his attention to the slogan decorating the wall over the portrait of Marx: "Workers of all countries, unite!" But this did not touch him in the least and only served to increase his passion. Pounding his fist on the table, Jack met their arguments with, "What the devil! I am first of all a white man and only then a Socialist!" His socialist friend, Cloudesley Johns, criticized London for his combi- nation of racialism and socialism. London refuted Johns' criticism with the following letter, dated June 23, 1899, in which he very succinctly defines his interpretation of socialism: "Socialism is not an ideal system, devised by man for the happiness of a life; nor for the happiness of all men; but it is devised for the happiness of cer- tain kindred races. It is devised so as to give more strength to those certain kindred favored races so that they may survive and inherit the earth to the ex- tinction of the lesser weaker races. The very men who advocate socialism may tell you of the brotherhood of all men, and I know they are sincere, but that does not alter the law." Johns continued to argue the matter, which brought another frank response from London in a letter dated December 12, 1899: "I do not believe in the universal brotherhood of man. I think I have said so before. I believe my race is the salt of the earth. I am a scientific social- ist, not a utopian...." Despite London's maverick views and continual embarrassment of the social- ist movement, his fellow socialists could not resist the temptation to capital- ize on his immense popularity as a novelist. And he wrote vast quantities of socialist propaganda for them. But here, as elsewhere, his outspoken views on race and eugenics are blatantly evident. The following is from his article en- titled "What Communities Lose by the Competitive System," published in the Nov- ember 1900 issue of Cosmopolitan: "The stronger, the braver, the more indomitable, are selected to go to the wars, and to die early, without offspring. The weaker are sent to the plow and permitted to perpetuate their kind. As Doctor Jordan has remarked, the best are sent forth, the second-best remain. But it does not stop at this. The best of the second-best are next sent, and the third-best is left. The French peasant of to-day demonstrates what manner of man is left to the soil after one hund- red years or so of military selection. Where are the soldiers of Greece, Spar- ta, and Rome? They lie on countless fields of battle, and with them their de- scendants which were not. The degenerate peoples of those countries are the de- scendants of those who remained to the soil. London expressed his concern about human intervention interfering with natural selection on the human species in the article "Wanted: A New Law of Development," published in the August 1902 issue of The International Social- ist Review. He foresaw a time when the progeny of men of lower and higher qual- ity would possess an equal opportunity for survival, which would allow for the devolution of man. He expressed the hope that under socialist rule a premium would be placed upon the strong and efficient so that man might continue on the upward path. And in other works, such as "The Tramp," (published in The Ad- vance, San Francisco, January 25, 1902) he attempted to distinguish between the hereditary inefficients and the worthy yeomanry that together comprised the working class. The Iron Heel, published in 1907, was London's most important and most militant socialist literary work. The novel has been labeled as both a "blue- print for Fascism" and a forerunner of George Orwell's 1984. London took his theme from W. J. Ghent's Our Benevolent Feudalism, which described the inte- gration of capital into a dictatorship. The book purports to be derived from a manuscript discovered in a hollow oak tree, seven centuries in the future. It is written by Avis, the wife of Ernest Everhard, the leader of the socialist revolution in America, and covers the struggle from 1912 to 1932. "The Iron Heel" is the term London applies to the oligarchy of American capitalists who seized power early in the 20th century, when a socialist victory at the polls seemed a real threat to them. Even in this most important work of socialist propaganda, London's uncon- ventional socialist views show. In the first few pages of the book, Ernest Everhard, the socialist hero, is given the following introduction to the reader: "I have said that he was afraid of nothing. He was a natural aristocrat -- and this in spite of the fact that he was in the camp of the non-aristocrats. He was a superman, a blond beast such as Nietzsche has described...." With growing unrest occurring in the socialist camp, the oligarchy begins to crack down. Vigilante groups destroy the socialist presses and disrupt rad- ical meetings. Strikes are suppressed by the police and the military, with thousands herded into concentration camps. The population is gradually en- slaved, with no protest from the press, the churches, or the universities. Meanwhile, the socialists and trade-unionists naively maintain their faith in the electoral process, despite Everhard's warnings that they must be pre- pared for revolutionary action. The labor movement, weak from inner divisions, is crushed, its leaders jailed and secretly executed. The Iron Heel stamps out all opposition with the aid of the Mercenaries, a professional military corps. Everhard then leads the socialists in a campaign of terrorism. The socialist revolution is drowned in blood, Everhard is executed, and the Oligarchs rule for 300 years, until their own internal decay and a new up- rising by the proles brings about the final triumph of socialism in the 22nd century AD. The Iron Heel was never a success in the United States. The book was de- nounced by the American socialist movement, which claimed that its harsh and bloody scenes would discourage the proletariat. The International Socialist Review stated that the book was "well calculated...to repel many whose addi- tion to our forces is sorely needed." The Iron Heel was followed in 1909 with another major socialist novel, Martin Eden. Written as an indictment of extreme individualism, it too drew fire from the socialist camp for its unflattering portrayal of the socialists. The novel's protagonist is, ironically, the extreme individualist Martin Eden, a disciple of Nietzsche and Spencer who rejects socialism -- and whom London created in his own image. For, more than any of his other novels, Martin Eden is autobiographical -- and more than any other, its hero manifests the divi- sions in London's own soul. The following excerpt from Martin Eden, a description of the hero's reac- tion to a Jewish socialist speaker, seems to say much about London's own con- flicting feelings toward the Jews. Remember, it was written at a time when his intellectual estimate of them still was changing, from that of a race of ideal- istic benefactors of mankind, whose socialism was purely altruistic, to that of Aryan man's natural enemy, who merely used socialism as a means of organizing the Untermenschen against their natural superiors. It was the latter estimate, of course, which coincided with the gut reaction he always had felt toward them: "The speaker, a clever Jew, won Martin's admiration at the same time that he aroused his antagonism. The man's stooped and narrow shoulders and weazened chest proclaimed him the true child of the crowded ghetto, and strong on Martin was the age-long struggle of the feeble, wretched slaves against the lordly handful of men who had ruled over them and would rule over them to the end of time. To Martin this withered wisp of a creature was a symbol. He was the fig- ure that stood forth representative of the whole miserable mass of weaklings and inefficients who perished according to biological law on the rugged con- fines of life. They were the unfit. In spite of their cunning philosophy and of their antlike proclivities for cooperation, Nature rejected them for the ex- ceptional man. Out of the plentiful spawn of life she flung from her prolific hand she selected only the best." Perhaps one of the most disturbing items for London's socialist friends was his plan for the construction of "Wolf House," an impressive, castle-like residence, which brought protests that he was setting himself up as a feudal baron. Indeed, he intended that the house, which was being built in a redwood grove on his 1500-acre ranch overlooking the Valley of the Moon, would house a London dynasty. London had returned to the soil, just as his characters in The Valley of the Moon, leaving the outside world and creating his own. He envisioned a u- topian revolutionary community arising on his ranch. He hoped that it would be- come self-sufficient and would sustain his colony of relatives, guests, and workers. The community was to have its own school; and a non-profit general store, slaughterhouse, and refrigeration plant. Wolf House was built on a huge, floating slab large enough to support a 40-story building, as an anti-earthquake precaution. Redwood logs, maroon vol- canic rocks, blue slate, boulders, and cement were chosen as primary building materials. Large redwood logs with their bark intact formed the carriage en- trance, the pergolas, and the porches. The logs in the gables and balconies were interlaced with fruit twigs, providing a natural, earthy effect. By August 1913 the magnificent structure was completed. On the night of August 22, a few weeks before the Londons were to move in, Wolf House burned to the ground. All that remained was the outer stone shell. The cause of the fire has never been conclusively determined. Jack believed that it was set by some hysterical socialist who did not wish to see the plans for Wolf House realized. By this time London was growing frustrated, especially with the socialist movement. He had abruptly ceased vigorous socialist activism after 1909 to de- vote his time to the development of his ranch. He had turned to agrarianism for his spiritual replenishment, and he was traveling the road further with Nietz- sche and with the ideology of race. In notes for a book he scribbled, "My re- ligion -- not deep and learned and philosophical -- but going Nietzsche-like to the root of things." On March 7, 1916, London tendered his resignation from the Socialist Party, realizing that there was no longer a place for him in the movement. In the closing of his letter of resignation he wrote: "My final word is that liberty, freedom, and independence are royal things that cannot be presented to, or thrust upon, races or classes. If races and classes cannot rise up and by their own strength of brain and brawn wrest from the world liberty, freedom, and independence, they never, in time, can come to these royal possessions -- and if such royal things are kindly presented to them by superior individuals, on silver platters, they will know not what to do with them, will fail to make use of them, and will be what they have always been in the past -- inferior races and inferior classes. Despite his troubles with the American socialist movement, London has en- joyed immense popularity in the Soviet Union. With the outbreak of revolution in Russia in early 1905, he became a propagandist for the struggle, signing a proclamation calling on American socialists to support the revolution and lec- turing in various California cities on the subject. The Soviet government in turn has translated his books into 32 languages and printed more than 30 mil- lion copies of them. A complete set of his works, consisting of 24 volumes, was published in the U.S.S.R. between 1928 and 1929. In 1956 an eight-volume edi- tion of his works, with a printing of 600,000 copies, was reported to be com- pletely subscribed to within five hours of the announcement of publication. It would be easier to understand the Soviet government's enthusiasm for London if none of his books had ever been published in the Soviet Union. As his colleague Frederick Palmer noted, he was the most unsocialistic of socialists -- if one thinks of socialism in the Marxist sense -- and this fact was nowhere more apparent than in his books. Even The Iron Heel, the most militantly "socialistic" of his books, does no more than pay a cursory lip service to Marxism, by enunciating Marx's theory of surplus value. In the book there is both a grudging admiration for the Olig- archs of the Iron Heel and a hardly concealed revulsion for the mindless and ignoble proletarian masses. The book is anti-capitalist and pro-revolutionary, but not egalitarian and certainly not Marxist, except as noted. What is easy to understand is London's hatred of the capitalist system and what it has done to the spirit of our race. If nothing else, his own experi- ences as a child of the oppressed proletariat, working 12 hours a day as a teenager for a wage of ten cents an hour, led him to support the socialist movement. But it never made a true Marxist of him. Jack London's socialism, in fact, was National Socialism, although it was not known by that name during his lifetime. Had he lived another 20 years he himself would have proclaimed the fact to the world, and had he still been writing he would have been a far more fervent propagandist for Hitler's Nation- al Socialist revolution in Germany than he had been earlier for Lenin's com- munist revolution in Russia. The tragedy of his life is that he was a revolu- tionary idealist born a generation too soon, and so blundered into the wrong revolution: a revolution in which he was never spiritually at home. By 1916 Jack was in worsening health, his condition having steadily de- clined during the last two years. He suffered from failing kidneys, and the re- sultant uremia sent him into long bouts of pain and disability. He was a changed man. He had become old and tired at the age of 40 from an accumulation of injuries and physical self-neglect during an incredibly fast-paced and ad- venturous life. On the morning of November 22, 1916, Jack was found in his bed in a coma. After repeated attempts to revive him had failed, he died that evening. It has never been conclusively determined whether his death came from the accumulation of poisons from his inoperative kidneys or from an overdose of morphine taken to relieve the pain -- or to deliberately end his life. The funeral and burial were conducted as Jack had requested -- simple and with no prayers. His ashes were buried on a knoll above his ranch house, amidst a grove of white oaks and manzanita. A giant volcanic boulder from the build- ing of Wolf House was then rolled over the grave. No inscription marks the site; his life and work would speak for themselves. Charmian, Jack's wife, would quote him as saying, "Mate-Woman, I tell you I am standing on the edge of a world so new, so terrible, so wonderful, that I am almost afraid to look over into it." The world that Jack London envisioned differed markedly from that of his socialist contemporaries. Years after Jack's death, an old socialist mentor would remark that, from 1899 on, Jack "stood with one foot in social democracy and the other in the philosophical teachings from which have sprung Fascism." Jack London was a remarkable man. With keen perception he attempted to de- termine what was right and true in charting his own course, and he was honest enough to alter that course when the evidence warranted it. His combative and adventurous spirit, genuine concern for the well-being of his people, and in- stinctive striving for truth set him far above the common run of men. The Aryan spirit so perfectly conveyed through the racialist and Nietzschean themes of much of his writings and manifested in his personal life should serve as a s trong source of inspiration for every intelligent, racially-conscious member of the White race. Jack London's personal credo provides a fitting finale for the story of his life and work: "I would rather be ashes than dust! I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry rot. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. The proper function of man is to live, not to exist. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. I shall use my time." (This article was originally published in NATIONAL VANGUARD Magazine, PO Box 330, Hillsboro WV 24946 USA. Fax # 304-653-4690 $1 for complete catalog) Article 16015 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!news.island.net!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: National Socialism Frequently Asked Questions (updated) Date: 13 Sep 1994 21:31:11 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3555mv$gj5@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <34pr15$i4e@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Jerzy Pankiewicz responds to me: >: Why do you give that "Hitler salute?" >BTW, Hitler has given "Hitler salute" in very sloppy way. >Should a real Aryan give the Hitler's "Hitler salute" >or SS "Hitler salute"? I presume you are referring to Hitler's tendency to offer the Aryan salute with his arm straight up and his hand tilted back. You try holding your hand in the standard Aryan salute for an hour through a parade, and then ask your question. Most of us use the standard form, unless circumstances require otherwise, such as when entering a group or building in close company with others. >: Just who do you consider "Aryan?" >: many, Iceland, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, The Netherlands, Norway, >Poland, >There must have been a little misunderstanding because National Socialist >murdered about 2 milion Poles. They didn't know that we were Aryans. Just how did you determine the Germans "murdered" _two million_ Poles? And I suppose they were killed in "gas chambers?" If you have a problem with Germany invading and occupying Poland, criticize the Polish government officials who provoked such an attack with their refusal to negotiate in a reasonable and respectful way with the Germans to resolve the "Polish corridor" problem and the discrimination by Poland against the German minority in lands taken without plebiscite after WWI. Criticize the Polish nationalists who bragged about defeating Germany and annexing "Polish" terri- tory, such as German lands up to the Elbe, including Berlin. Article 16034 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!news.island.net!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: National Socialism Frequently Asked Questions (updated) Date: 14 Sep 1994 00:23:48 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 14 Message-ID: <355fqk$hep@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <34pr15$i4e@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <email@example.com>,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Richard Schultz writes: >Kleim misunderstands a lot of things. Remember, he posted that Ukrainians >are "Aryans" in the National Bocialists scheme of things, and refused to >change his mind even after I posted direct quotes from Hitler, Himmler, et al. >that say the exact opposite. I either reject your interpretation of such quotes, or reject the "quotes" because they are spurious. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 16248 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Revisionists" Quiet About Hitler?! Date: 16 Sep 1994 14:20:21 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 38 Message-ID: <35c9j5$3hr@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <email@example.com.Brown.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Danny Keren writes: >Strangely enough, our "revisionist scholars" are very quiet about >the quotes from Hitler posted here. >Hitler expressed his desire to see Jews exposed to poison gas. >No one denies this. >Hitler said in more than one public speech that the result of a new >world war will be the "annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe". >No one denies this. >Surely, this must mean something, right? Hitler, after all, was the >absolute ruler of Nazi Germany. These two statements from him are >therefore very important. >One would expect that they be addressed. Whatever the reasons other revisionists have not addressed these issues to your satisfaction, one thing is certain -- they don't mean what you claim they do. Hitler's _Mein Kampf_ quote about seeing Jews exposed to chemical weapons referred to the thesis that _had_ they been exposed to such a terrible weapon during the First World War (as he had been), perhaps they would not have been able to foist the so-called "Weimar Republik" on the German People. Hitler's repeated comment about "the annihilation of the Jews" referred not to the physical extermination of all individuals called Jews, but rather the destruction of Jewry _as a People_. And he carried this out through the "Final Solution," it being the _expulsion_ of Jewry from Germany, German- occupied territories, and States friendly to Germany. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 16249 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!redstone.interpath.net!ddsw1!panix!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: "Revisionists" Quiet About Hitler?! Date: 16 Sep 1994 14:42:24 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 76 Message-ID: <35casg$3ls@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org.Brown.EDU> , Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Jamie McCarthy writes: >From the _Skeptic_ magazine article: > And, finally, there are the words of the Fuehrer himself. In Hitler's >speech of January 30, 1939, he said: > Today I want to be a prophet once more: If international finance > Jewry inside and outside of Europe should succeed once more in > plunging nations into another world war, the consequence will > not be the Bolshevization of the earth and thereby the victory > of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe. >In September, 1942, Hitler recalled: > In my Reichstag speech of September 1, 1939 [above, wrong date > here], I have spoken of two things: first, that now that the war > has been forced upon us, no array of weapons and no passage of > time will bring us to defeat, and second, that if Jewry should > plot another world war in order to exterminate the Aryan peoples > in Europe, it would not be the Aryan peoples which would be > exterminated but Jewry. . . . > At a public speech in Munich, November 8, 1942, Hitler told his >audience (see Jaeckel, 1989 for this and above Hitler quotes): > You will recall the session of the Reichstag during which I > declared: If Jewry should imagine that it could bring about an > international world war to exterminate the European races, the > result will not be the extermination of the European races, but > the extermination of Jewry in Europe. People always laughed > about me as a prophet. Of those who laughed then, countless > numbers no longer laugh today, and those who still laugh now > will perhaps no longer laugh a short time from now. This > realization will spread beyond Europe throughout the entire > world. International Jewry will be recognized in its full > demonic peril; we National Socialists will see to that. > From his earliest political ramblings to the final Goetterdammerung, >Hitler had it in for the Jews. On April 12, 1922, in a Munich speech >later published in the Voelkischer Beobachter, he told his audience >(Snyder, 1981, p. 29): > The Jew is the ferment of the decomposition of people. This > means that it is in the nature of the Jew to destroy, and he > must destroy, because he lacks altogether any idea of working > for the common good. He possesses certain characteristics given > to him by nature and he never can rid himself of those > characteristics. The Jew is harmful to us. > Thirty-three years later, on April 29, 1945, at 4:00 A.M., just one >day before his suicide, Hitler commanded his successors in his political >testament to carry on the fight: "Above all I charge the leaders of the >nation and those under them to scrupulous observance of the laws of race >and to merciless opposition to the universal poisoner of all peoples, >International Jewry" (Snyder, p. 521). >How many more quotes do we need to prove the Holocaust--100, 1,000, 10,000? ^^^^^ ^^^ ^^^^^^^^^ >The convergence of evidence is overwhelming. ^^^^^^^^ This is evidence of a program to physically exterminate six million members of the Jewish People in Europe via "gas chambers"?!?! I hope you didn't hurt yourself when you fell off your rocker, Jamie. When Reagan made a comment about "missles are on the way" back in the early '80's in reference to the Soviet Union, Jamie McCarthy would apparently use that as "proof" the Soviet Union endured a nuclear attack by the United States. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 16293 of alt.revisionism: Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!nic-nac.CSU.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!news.duke.edu!eff!news.kei.com!yeshua.marcam.com!uunet!world!bzs From: email@example.com (Barry Shein) Subject: Re: "Revisionists" Quiet About Hitler?! In-Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU's message of 16 Sep 1994 14:42:24 GMT Message-ID: Sender: firstname.lastname@example.org (Barry Shein) Organization: The World References: <email@example.com.Brown.EDU> , <35casg$3ls@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 1994 23:44:25 GMT Lines: 33 From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) >When Reagan made a comment about "missles are on the way" back in the early >'80's in reference to the Soviet Union, Jamie McCarthy would apparently use >that as "proof" the Soviet Union endured a nuclear attack by the United States. No, but if 100M Soviets lay dead and glowing in the dark I think we'd know whose door to knock on to ask some questions about what happened. There's not a lot of point in investigating murders that didn't occur. That's irrelevant to the Holocaust, however, since there were millions of murders. As every freshman student of law knows about murder: Motive Method Opportunity And of course "corpus dilecti", the court generally likes to see some evidence that anyone at all died. Your analogy seems a bit weak on that point. Hitler's ravings in Mein Kampf and thereafter are what's known as "Motive". Stop acting stupid and analyzing them as if they were one of the other two. It's transparently dumb. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | firstname.lastname@example.org | uunet!world!bzs Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD Article 16446 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (MILTON JOHN KLEIM, JR.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: please read Date: 20 Sep 1994 00:38:13 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 9 Message-ID: <35latl$r96@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Ary Frenkiel writes: > Frenkiel Enterprises is an organization that is dedicated to recovering >seized properties during the holocaust in the former East Germany, from >1934-1989 (fall of the Berlin Wall). Do you also assist _Germans_ in recovering _their_ properties seized illegally by the "Allies" in Central ("East") and Eastern Germany, and the Sudetenland? Article 8818 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Racial equality club formed at my U Date: 21 Sep 1994 04:32:29 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 56 Message-ID: <35od0t$1ne@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <20SEP94.16649193.0062@IBM.UTM.EDU>,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Matthew L Miller responds to Sylvia Rowe: >: pride. Face it folks. If you are proud of who you are, if you want to >: marry another white person and live in an all-white neighborhood, then >: you are BAD. We are being told that white self-determination and self- >: preservation is bad, people, and we're believing it! >Wanting to live in an all-white neighborhood goes beyond simple pride in >your heritage. The desire to exclude others based solely on their skin >color or ethnic origins reflects an attitude of racial superiority which >is as unacceptable to me as the racial heirarchy subscribed to by >Farrakhan and the NOI. It's "unaccepable" to you? So? Your opinion is irrelevant. We claim the right of freedom of association, including in our dwellings and neighborhoods. > It's fine to be proud of your heritage--it's short-sighted and >ignorant to beleive that your ethnic/racial group is somehow inherently >superior to others. Who said anything about "superior?" Whites/Aryans are obviously very different physically and psychologically from non-Whites. We believe that those differences, as Thomas Jefferson and other great American leaders did as well, preclude two races as diverse as Blacks and Whites from living happily and successfuly in the same communities. >Also, the need for "Black pride" movements has been produced by the institu- >tionalized racism in this country. The need for African-American pride organizations exists whether this alleged "institutionalized racism" exists or not. > White pride/white power advocates claim that the other races are >making too many gains in our society, that whites are being discriminated >against. I say, what country are you living in? In America, we have a >white president, vice president, etc. The vast majority of members of >congress are white. Most CEOs of fortune 500 companies are white. What >the fuck are you WHINING about? I live in America, a land ruled by gangsters in the District of Corruption and New York. So, Clinton, Gore, and most Congresspersons are White. Do they represent White interests? NO! Do they help secure the perpetual existence of the Aryan Race in North America and to guarantee a bright future for White children? HELL NO! Clinton, Gore, and the Partisan Prostitutes, like "most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies," are interested in one thing: themselves. This translates into one of two things -- money and/or personal power. If they can sell the Aryan Race and its interests out for the "American God," they certainly will. Their record demonstrates they will. The Establishment has exploited people of EVERY Race throughout its reign, including millions of yesterday's White Slaves and today's White working class. Racial oppression is merely one of their tools to further profit and power. Pan-Aryan racism is not an ideal among them. Article 8825 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Skinheads suck Date: 21 Sep 1994 15:37:38 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 23 Distribution: na Message-ID: <35pk02$5fu@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <1994Sep21.email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Dalbert Bailey replies to Wojciech Kozlowski: > James Kinard, rot in hell. Believe the good news, not Hitler. >Hitler was satan. We can all live in peace. Screw your rallies. If you >can't then >DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee. >Go to hell you racists. >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Wojciech Kozlowski - firstname.lastname@example.org - Polish Heritage! | > Well boys and girls, this pissant has shown that the polish are not > only clumsy. But also two-faced. Read the message below that this > person posted. BTW, I love making fools of idiots and vice versa! Obviously, this "Polish Patriot" deserves a flaming, but I must take issue with your cheap shot against all Poles on account of this poor excuse for an Aryan. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 8826 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Resistance Records Concert in Kenosha, September 30th Date: 21 Sep 1994 15:43:50 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 19 Message-ID: <35pkbm$5fu@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu I'm surprised none of the Skinheads on this group have mentioned the soon upcoming Resistance Records concert in Milwaukee/Kenosha, next Friday evening (September 30th). Or did I just miss the post? Interested in attending? Bound for Glory, RAHOWA, Centurion, among other greats, will be performing. Contact -- Concert Information Resistance Records PO Box 24700 Detroit MI 48224 -- TODAY! "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 8851 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Racial equality club formed at my U Date: 22 Sep 1994 00:18:45 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 35 Message-ID: <35qih5$88r@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <20SEP94.16649193.0062@IBM.UTM.EDU> <email@example.com> ,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Matthew L Miller writes: [discussion/debate about "affirmative action"] >The reason these policies were developed was because the evidence was >overwhelming that Blacks had been discriminated against in these areas. Let's accept your argument here, which I neither agree nor disagree with. Are you saying that because non-Whites were discriminated against, past actions by _some_ Whites _justify_ discrimination _today_ against White individuals, in particular young Whites such as myself, whom were obviously never involved in such matters? > Another fact you should consider is that schools in poor neighborhoods >do not receive the same funding and do not have the same degree of >participation by parents (poor people are usually working all the time). >This results in lower quality of education, and thus lower test scores, >but does not change the fact that if we are to have any semblance of a >just society, Blacks and other minorities must not be excluded from >receiving higher education. Many great leaders in American history, and _world_ history, for that matter, never had formal schooling, yet achieved greatness. I totally reject the claim that poverty prevents individuals of ability from attaining greatness. "Affirmative action" is the program where mediocrity is "equalized" with greatness, by discriminating against and dragging down those who demonstrate the latter. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 16533 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: _Action Report_ and the David Irving Fighting Fund Date: 22 Sep 1994 14:13:34 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 24 Message-ID: <35s3ee$cmf@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Interested in reading more about the worldwide campaign for _real_ history? Write: _Action Report_ David Irving Fighting Fund PO Box 1707 Key West FL 33041 or _Action Report_ Focal Point Publications 81 Duke Street London W1M 5DJ United Kingdom Find out about best-selling historical author David Irving's efforts to defeat the censorship and persecution of revisionists encouraged by the traditional enemies of truth around the world. A small donation is appreciated. Article 8911 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Resistance Records Concert in Kenosha, September 30th Date: 22 Sep 1994 21:52:48 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 12 Message-ID: <35subg$gf4@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <35pkbm$5fu@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu wondrboy replies to me: >: I'm surprised none of the Skinheads on this group have mentioned the soon >: upcoming Resistance Records concert in Milwaukee/Kenosha, next Friday evening >: (September 30th). >: Or did I just miss the post? >It's alt.skinhead, not alt.bonehead. Shove it, wonderwoman. Article 25831 of alt.censorship: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!nntp.interaccess.com!jhermann From: jhermann@interaccess (James Hermann) Newsgroups: alt.censorship Subject: Need List of Banned Books Date: 24 Sep 1994 03:17:42 GMT Organization: IAC Lines: 8 Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: email@example.com NNTP-Posting-Host: psycfrnd.interaccess.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] My wife wants to do a Sunday Service about famous Banned Books. does anyone have a good list of books that have been banned by public or university libraries, especially books that were burned? Jim Article 8918 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Racial equality club formed at my U Date: 23 Sep 1994 13:28:34 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35ul62$312@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <20SEP94.16649193.0062@IBM.UTM.EDU> <firstname.lastname@example.org> ,<email@example.com> <35qih5$88r@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<firstname.lastname@example.org> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Matthew L Miller responds to me: >Making attempts to bring minority groups into the educational mainstream does >not equate to "discrimination against Whites." Allowing qualified "minorities" into higher educational facilities does not en- tail discrimination against Whites. Using "affirmative action" to allow less qualified "minorities" into a higher education facility in place of more qualfied Whites DOES entail discrimination. >If you are born with white skin in this country, you are automatically at an >advantage. So you say. And what are those "advantages?" Being born "Hispanic" or "African-American" also means that individual will receive advantages, namely the fruit of discrimination against White people through "affrimative action." >Affirmative Action as it stands has some problems, but I sincerely beleive >that the motive behind it is justified--it is certainly not any type of con- >spiracy to discriminate against whites. So? *I* _do_ think "affirmative action" is promoted by both well-meaning but befuddled or misguided souls, AND criminals who hate the White Race. >: "We must bust the nazis in the head to secure the existence of our People >and a future for children." : White Revolution is the ONLY solution! "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 8920 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Racial equality club formed at my U Date: 23 Sep 1994 13:42:11 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 91 Message-ID: <35ulvj$312@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <20SEP94.16649193.0062@IBM.UTM.EDU> <email@example.com> ,<firstname.lastname@example.org> <35qk0d$88r@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Matthew L Miller responds to me: >: >Man, I don't know about where you live, but where I am White culture is >: >definitely the one that is predominant. > >: I'm from California, San Joaquin County to be exact, and in that area non- >: Whites predominate. Working-class Whites MUST adapt to living in such a Hell, >: where the non-Whites direct open hostility and violence towards "Whitey" and >: "Gringo." >: Any sort of honorable opportunity for a happy, productive life depended upon >: my moving to a predominately Aryan region. >You get no sympathy from me, pal...I live in Atlanta, almost downtown, >not in some whitebread suburb. A Chocolate City, and I like it just >fine. Growing up in Charlotte NC, I definitely received more harrassment >from whites than blacks. Cockroaches usually enjoy living in filth. >: And it sounds like you're rejecting the reality that many White people don't >: like the "multicultural" deathstyle being shoved down our throats and rammed >: up our asses. >Well, they (and you) are just going to have to wake up a smell the >coffee--The vast majority of the people on this planet are "non-white", >and your dream of keeping them all out of this country (or out of the >midwest, or wherever your fantasy-world "white state" would exist) and >kicking out those that are already here is never going to be realized. >Never. Well, if we're "never" going to realize our Vision, why give a damn about what we say? The present state of affairs has come about through the corrupt Will of many, many criminals -- both within government and without, in the District of Cor- ruption, New York, Hollywood, and other degenerate places. The Aryan Will can repair any damage done by evil. >: >Yes, and most of the "gains" of the early european settlers were made >: >from the free labor of slaves, not by "good white hard work". >: This is a myth. >: Most of the hard labor which built the infrastructure and institutions of >: America was done by White people, often White slaves. >: I challenge you to prove otherwise. >I beleive the burden of proof would fall on you, if you have the gall to >make such an obviously false statement. I suppose it depends on what you >determine to be "labor which built the infrastructure and institutions". >Whites were the ones cracking the whip, it's true...is this thelabor that >you consider so valuable? I believe otherwise. You made the assertion that Whites built America mostly through "oppression." YOU prove that slander...or shut your trap. >: And regarding White extinction in America, are you just blind and stupid, >: or what? Have you not taken notice of the darkening of America in even the >: past ten years? Do you realize most American Whites are middle-aged or >: elderly? It's my generation which will have to deal with the racial prob- >: lems dealt us by the Washington Criminals. If we fail, we sure damn well >: will become extinct. >I'll believe it when I see it. Your head IS full of shit. I gave you the benefit of the doubt before, but now all doubt is removed. When you experience death, you can't take retroactive measures to ensure life. > Any material gains made by german working class during the third >reich can be attributed to the illegal plundering of conquered territory >and the shameless appropriation of property in Germany owned by >"Non-Aryans", and is therefore evidence neither of concern for the >working class nor the workablility of national socialism as a political >system. You take "ignorant" to greater extremes! The fact of the matter is that the Third Reich's standard of living rose quickly from the beginning of Hitler's administration. The prosperity I spoke of occurred BEFORE any attack on another country ever occurred. The Germans appropriated goods and supplies from occupied countries during the war not to raise their standard of living, but rather to survive. Article 8929 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!torn!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: early white settlers(matt miller) Date: 23 Sep 1994 14:18:44 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 64 Distribution: usa Message-ID: <35uo44$312@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org>,<email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Matthew L Miller responds to Stephen Hanson: >You are correct in stating that many of the white settlers came to >America with little more than the clothes on their back. However, you >are vastly oversimplifying the issue and ignoring a large chunk of >historical information if you think that it is possible to equate the >experience of these white settlers with that of Americans of African >extraction. YOU are the one ignoring historical data. Michael Hoffman has proven conclu- sively in his _They Were White and They Were Slaves_ that White "indentured servants" were treated as badly or worse than Negro slaves, the prime reason being that the former were free or low cost (political criminals or children). > For one thing, your ancestors and mine came here voluntarily in >order to better their situation. Possibly as many as half of the early White settlers came here not by their voluntary wills, but as "indentured servants" or another sort of bound immi- grant. >Your ancestors had a cultural bond with many of the people already here >and were able to take advantage of cultural organizations. Many of our ancestors were looked upon as "scum" and "trash," suited appropri- ately for hard work in factories, as farm hands, or other occupations, usually for little, sometimes no pay. The relationship between many wealthy White owners and their White servants was no better than that between many White Black-slave owners and their servants. Indeed some White slave owners valued their Black slaves more than their White ones, because the former was often purchased specially for certain tasks, like a horse, and the latter was just abundant "cheap labor." >Black culture was stifled and banned under slavery, and has been discounted, >ameliorated, and appropriated by whites ever since. The fact is that Blacks did have their own native culture during slavery, from which many folktales and folk songs derive, as well as many unique lifeways still used today by the _productive_ segment of the Black population. >Government programs and laws may be flawed in the way that they address these >variables, but to simply eliminate AFDC and welfare and put nothing in its >place would only make the problem worse. Indeed. The only viable solution is that proposed by many African-American nationalists, as well as Aryans ones -- separation. If the White man is so evil and oppressive, the logical conclusion is for the two races to separate, so that the Black Nation can prove their worth, control- ling their own destiny, and building a society conducive to their needs and wants. I would propose that a National Socialist government would happily pay large amounts to Blacks to aid them in "divorcing" themselves from the society they hate so much. We'll get the billions needed from the criminal bankers who have raped both White and Black workers for centuries with their interest. "We must secure the existence of our People and a future for White children." Article 16646 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Backing-up Kleim and challenging Schultz Date: 26 Sep 1994 01:27:03 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 20 Message-ID: <365817$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: ,<firstname.lastname@example.org.Brown.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Danny Keren writes: >To answer "landpost's" nutty claims about how the Nazis regarded >the Slavs and Poles, it is enough to look at the following two >excerpts from Himmler. It's quite obvious the Nazis regarded >Poles and Slavs as sub-humans, to be used as beasts of burden. [material of unverified authenticity deleted] Mr. McCarthy asked for original German sources, to substantiate your side's claim that the National Socialist German government regarded Slavs as non- Aryans. It is NOT enough to be provided with possibly spurious "quotations" from a clearly anti-National Socialist source. We want citations from German publications, 1933-1945, which substantiate your claim; "quotations" from _Allied_ publications are not proof. If none are forthcoming, we must assume you cannot provide any. The latter represents standards you have insisted I follow. Article 16647 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: The Holocaust Myth Date: 26 Sep 1994 01:27:29 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 98 Message-ID: <365821$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu The Holocaust Myth: A Debilitating Device of the Jews Why is the legend of the Holocaust propagated? Is it because the self-proclaimed Chosen Ones wish to "never forget?" Or is it for a more dastardly purpose? The Holocaust Myth is peddled by both professional liars, and well- meaning but misguided historians. Enormous amounts of material have been produced, and hundreds of millions of dollars have been expended in this campaign to disseminate the "acceptable" version of the plight of the Jews under the Third Reich. Building upon the fact that hundreds of thousands of Jews suffered and died during the war -- a war in which Jewish leaders played the major part in materializing -- the Holocaust Myth was developed into a legend of genocide as convenient but irrelevant facts, misinterpre- tation of the conditions existing at the concentration camps, grossly inflated numbers of Jewish missing person reports, and a myriad of falsehoods were manifested into a fable about a program of extermi- nation against European Jewry. Never before were historical events made into a fictitious legend so successfully; the clever synthesis of folklore and cinema into the believable myth of the Holocaust stands as a testimonial to Jewish artistic skill. What do the Jews stand to gain from the Holocaust Myth? Mainly two things: most importantly, a psychological and spiritual weapon for utilization against peoples of the West; secondly, billions of dollars of monetary aid and materiel for their cause, including the State of Israel, via "reparations," and profits collected from the promotion of the Myth. The Holocaust Myth serves to shield Jewry from valid criticism, criti- cism of their unrighteous acts which is negated due to their unique, special victim status, this victimhood gained in large part by public sympathy generated through the Myth. The Holocaust Myth serves to instill shame in White people, to dim- inish pride in the accomplishments of the Aryan race. By applying guilt where none is deserved, White people are morally disarmed and disabled, inhibiting their ability to assert themselves when impor- tant decisions affecting the Fate of their race need be made. The Holocaust Myth is used as a vehicle for extortion. The German people have been deprived of many billions of Marks as "restitution" for "crimes" they could not be guilty of even had they occurred, and other Aryan nations are expected to contribute to Israel and other Jewish charities largely to "atone" for their inaction to "save" the Jews. The Holocaust Myth lies in the bedrock of the new "multicultural" religion which Jews have a great part in foisting on the world. Without this fabled tale about genocide perpetrated by the defenders of the Aryan race, such a scheme would utterly fail for lack of support. Criticism of the Holocaust Myth, regardless of the validity of the arguments presented, is unlawful in Germany, France and several other countries because of the legend's fragility. Further Dracon- ian measures to suppress the fast-growing public skepticism about the extermination claims will undoubtedly be enacted. However, this will prove self-defeating, for as more and more special protections are required to compel conformity with the Jewish version of history, the Myth's validity will become ever more questioned. Reasonable people will come to understand that if the Holocaust was fact, special legislation would be unnecessary to help perpetuate it. Of course many revisionists have a political motive in denying the factuality of the Holocaust. They purpose to eliminate the unrighteous influence that Jews wield when they use their Holocaust Myth. They seek to right an obscene wrong, to remove the indictment against not only Hitler and National Socialism, but against all Western peoples who have refused to bow to the Jewish will. The neutralization of the eternal shame imposed upon the White race will occur when history is revised in accordance with the facts. Justice is the motive of many historical revisionists. Should the Holocaust Myth be demonstrated to be the illusion that it is, what are the ramifications for its primary purveyors? Great public outrage would undoubtedly result, as the world is made aware that it was so dispicably and deliberately deceived. Exacerbating this justifiable rage will be the fact that the willful deception had as a primary purpose the manipulation of Western peoples' Destiny, and the extraction of their tax dollars. The uncodified exclusive privileges of the Jews would be withdrawn promptly. Yes, the Holocaust Myth is an illusion, a tremendously powerful, well-constructed and effective illusion. Many safeguards are erected to prevent its lack of substance from being revealed. But, the truth often appears at inopportune times. Many more half-truths and con- cocted "facts" shall be issued, but, as the body of truth slowly emerges, so does the Grand Myth slowly erode. With work and perse- verance, the Holocaust Myth will be shown to be what it truly is: a hoax; a program which simply did not exist. -- Milton John Kleim, Jr. Article 16648 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Contradictory material from the Mythologists' own sources Date: 26 Sep 1994 01:28:20 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 341 Message-ID: <36583k$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu The Unholy High Priests of the Holocaust Myth contradict themselves: "...there were no extermination camps on German soil..."  -- Simon Wiesenthal "In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 to their deaths each day."  -- Elie Wiesel ---------- An historian respected by the Holocaust Mythologists makes this absurd and impossible assertion: "...in the spring and early summer of 1942...hundreds of thousands of Jews were being gassed every day at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor, and Treblinka."  -- Martin Gilbert ---------- Although we are told constantly the value of "eyewitnesses" to "gassings," we learn this unexpected fact: "Filip Mueller's book is a unique document indeed: it is the testimony of the only man who saw the Jewish people die and lived to tell what he saw."  -- Widely-respected Jewish historian Yehuda Bauer ---------- An example of the unreliability of "eyewitness testimony" is seen in a laughable claim cited by the most respected "Holocaust survivor" regarding the infamous Babi Yar: "Eyewitnesses say that for months after the killings the ground continued to spurt geysers of blood."  ---------- In a display of necessary "damage-control," Jewish historian Arno J. Mayer concedes points revisionists have forwarded: Although Holocaust Mythologists such as Deborah Lipstadt claim there can be no debate with "Holocaust Deniers," Mayer says this -- "...historians are expected to avow their own prejudices and to probe those of their sources. No less important, they invite critics, both friendly and hostile, to verify the authenicity and reliability of their evidence as well as to debate the logic of their con- structions and the coherence of their explanations."  "Holocaust scholars" assert that undeniable facts buttress the extermination thesis, yet in reality this "evidence" is phantasmic -- "No written document containing or reporting an explicit command to exterminate the Jews has come to light thus far."  The following is part of the text of the famous letter from Goering to Heydrich of July 31, 1941, generally held as an early directive to "exterminate" the Jews -- "This is to supplement the assignment given to you in the decree of January 24, 1939, to solve the Jewish question by emigration or evacuation under the most favorable conditions possible given present circumstances. I hereby charge you to make all the necessary admini- strative, practical, and financial preparations for a _Gesamtloesung_ of the Jewish question throughout Germany's European sphere of influ- ence." About which Mayer says -- "There is nothing in these instructions, either explicit or implicit, to indicate that by directing Heydrich to prepare an overall and defini- tive solution -- a final solution -- of the 'Jewish problem,' Goering was asking him to prepare for the immediate or eventual mass murder of Jews."  Although we are told that the evidence in support of homicidal gas chambers is "overwhelming," and that "eyewitnesses" can offer accurate accounts of happenings at the German camps, Mayer tells us -- "Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable...No written orders for gassing have turned up thus far...Most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened care- fully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity..." "...there is no denying the many contradictions, ambiguities, and errors in existing sources."  The standard line of the Holocaust Myth is that over a million Jews were "gassed" at Auschwitz, yet Mayer writes -- "...from 1942 to 1945, certainly at Auschwitz, but probably overall, more Jews were killed by so-called 'natural' causes than by 'unnatural' ones."  We are assured by Holocaust Myth defenders that at least five million but closer to six million Jews were killed by the Germans. When asked how these numbers were established, obfuscation is dispensed. If one presses the Holocaust Myth defenders, he or she is accused of "anti-Semitism." Mayer is more honest con- cerning the facts -- "All in all, how many bodies were cremated at Auschwitz? How many died there all told?...We have simply no answers to these questions at this time."  ---------- Danny Keren has said that he accepts German documents as genuine. Let him try to explain away the following: "...camp doctors must use all means at their disposal to reduce essentially this death rate in the various camps."  "The camp doctors must supervise more often than in the past the food of the prisoners and, with the approval of the administration, submit improvement proposals to the camp commandants. These, however, must not only appear on paper, but must be controlled regularly by the camp doctors. Furthermore, the camp doctors are to see to it that the working conditions at the various labor places are improved as much as possible. To this purpose it will be necessary that the camp doctors inspect the labor places on the ground and convince themselves about the conditions of work." "The SS Reichsfuehrer has ordered that the death rate absolutely must be reduced."  -- Extracts from a secret memorandum from the SS Main Office of Economic Administration to all concentration camps, including Auschwitz, December 28, 1942 "_The fact that the Fuehrer intends to evacuate all Jews from Europe was communicated to me as early as August 1940..._" "Hence the basic _instruction of the_ Reich Foreign Minister, to promote the evacuation of the Jews in closest cooperation with the agencies of the Reich Leader SS, is still in force..."  "_In his letter of 24 June 1940...SS Major General Heydrich informed the Reich Foreign Minister that the whole problem of the approximately three and a quarter million Jews in the areas under German control can no longer be solved by emigration -- a terri- torial final solution (territorial Endloesung) would be necessary_." "_In recognition of this Reich Marshal Goering on 31 July 1941 commissioned SS Major General Heydrich to make, in conjunction with the interested German Control agencies, all necessary preparations for a total solution (Gesamtloesung) of the Jewish problem in the German sphere of influence in Europe_...In the conference General Heydrich explained that Reich Marshal Goering's assignment to him had been made on the Fuehrer's instruction _and that the Fuehrer instead of emigration had now authorized the evacuation of the Jews to the East as the solution_..."  "_The intended deportations are a further step forward on the way of the total solution...The deportation to the Government General is a temporary measure. The Jews will be moved on fur- ther to the Occupied Eastern Territories as soon as the technical conditions for it are given_."  -- Extracts from a memorandum of August 21, 1942, by Unterstaatssekretaer Martin Luther, Director of Abteilung Deutschland of the Reich Foreign Ministry, and attendee at the "Wannsee Conference" ---------- To this day, thousands of G.I.s would swear that they witnessed deliberate and calculated murder of inmates at the concentration camps they captured, despite Simon Wiesenthal's admission that "there were no extermination camps on German soil." Are they lying? Or merely misinterpreting what they saw -- disease and famine, common in wartime -- for something they were *told* they saw -- a policy of genocide? One responsible eyewitness, Dr. John E. Gordon, explains why Allied Forces encountered so many dead and dying inmates: "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany...Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions con- tributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution were poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced."  ---------- A "fact" circulated during the war and for decades afterwards, having the same evidential level as the "fact" of the "gas chambers," is now declared to be false. "Holocaust scholar" Deborah Lipstadt admits: "The fact is that the Nazis never used the bodies of Jews, or for that matter anyone else, for the production of soap. The soap rumor was prevalent both during and after the war. It may have had its origin in the cadaver factory atrocity story that came out of World War I...The soap rumor was thoroughly investigated after the war and proved to be untrue."  ---------- What do Jews stand to gain from the "Holocaust" fraud? Read on: "With regard to Israel, the Holocaust may be used to forestall political criticism and suppress debate; it reinforces the sense of Jews as an eternally beleaguered people who can rely for their defense only upon themselves. The invocation of the suffering endured by the Jews under the Nazis often takes the place of rational argument, and is expected to convince doubters of the legitimacy of current Israeli Government policy."  -- Paula E. Hyman "The devastating barb: 'There's no business like _Shoah_ business' is, sad to say, a recognizable truth."  -- Leon A. Jick ---------- Although there is an attitude of required veneration for St. Elie, the notorious hypocrite and illegitimate recipient of the 1986 Nobel Peace Prize promotes feelings much different than the saintly ideals he is commonly believed to: "Every Jew, somewhere in his being, should set apart a zone of hate -- healthy, virile hate -- for what the German personifies and for what persists in the German."  ---------- The hate-centered, profit-driven Cult of the Holocaust will be obliterated at the latest by the end of this century. I am glad to have played a small part in its exposure and exorcision. ============================================================================= NOTES [Underlining in quoted text denotes original italics] #1: Wiesenthal, Simon. "Letters from," in _Books and Bookmen_, April 1975, p. 5. #2: Wiesel, Elie. Quoted in "Author, Teacher, Witness," in _Time_, March 18, 1985, p 79. #3: Gilbert, Martin. _Auschwitz and the Allies_ (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1981), p. 26. #4: Bauer, Yehuda. Foreward to _Eyewitness Auschwitz: Three Years in the Gas Chambers_, by Filip Mueller, edited and translated by Susanne Flatauer (New York: Stein and Day, 1979), p. xi. #5: Wiesel, Elie. _The Jews of Silence: A Personal Report on Soviet Jewry_, translated by Neal Kozodoy (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1966), p. 35. #6: Mayer, Arno J. _Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History_ (New York: Pantheon, 1988). p. 17. #7: _Ibid_, p. 235. #8: _Ibid_, pp. 291-292. #9: _Ibid_, pp. 362-363. #10: _Ibid_, p. 365. #11: _Ibid_, p. 366. #12: "Document 2171-PS, Annex II," in _Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression, Volume IV_ (Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1946), p. 833. #13: _Ibid_, p. 834. #14: "Partial translation of Document NG-2586-J," in _Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military Tribunal Under Control Council Law No. 10, Nuernberg October 1946 - April 1949, Volume XIII_ (Washington: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1952). p. 244. #15: _Ibid_, p. 245. #16: _Ibid_, p. 249. #17: Gordon, John E. "Louse-Borne Typhus Fever in the European Theater of Operations, U.S. Army, 1945," in _Rickettsial Diseases of Man_, edited by Forest Ray Moulton (Washington: American Association for the Advancement of Science, 1948), pp. 25-26. #18: Lipstadt, Deborah. "Nazi Soap Rumor During World War II," in _The Los Angeles Times_, May 16, 1981, Part II, p. 2. #19: Hyman, Paula E. "New Debate on the Holocaust," in _New York Times Magazine_, September 14, 1980, p. 79. #20: Jick, Leon A. "The Holocaust: Its Use and Abuse Within the American Public," in _Yad Vashem Studies, Volume XIV_, edited by Livia Rothkirchen (Jerusalem: Yad Vashem Martyrs' and Heroes' Rememberance Authority, 1981), p. 316. #21: Wiesel, Elie. _Legends of Our Time_ (New York: Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1968), p. 142. -------------------------------------------------------------------- "At any given moment there is an orthodoxy, a body of ideas which it is assumed that all right-thinking people will accept without question. It is not exactly forbidden to state this or that or the other, but it is 'not done'...Anyone who challenges the prevailing orthodoxy finds himself silenced with surprising effectiveness. A genuinely unfashionable opinion is almost never given a fair hearing, either in the popular press or in the highbrow periodicals." -- George Orwell Article 25928 of alt.censorship: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!swiss.ans.net!malgudi.oar.net!nntp.interaccess.com!jhermann From: jhermann@interaccess (James Hermann) Newsgroups: alt.censorship Subject: Re: Need List of Banned Books Date: 26 Sep 1994 13:34:08 GMT Organization: IAC Lines: 15 Message-ID: <email@example.com> References: <3645ib$a9j@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org NNTP-Posting-Host: psycfrnd.interaccess.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Ronald M. Hopkins-Lutz (aa747@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote: : >... agood list of books that have been banned by public or : >university libraries, especially books that were burned? : What time frame, historical period, culture, country? We are : talking about a very popular human activity here. I mean : we're talking hundreds of thousands, maybe millions without : some restrictions on the list. How about 1980-present, USA, just public libraries or public universities? Jim Article 16696 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!unixg.ubc.ca!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!nic.smsu.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Myth Date: 26 Sep 1994 17:11:47 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 48 Message-ID: <366vcj$ps2@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <365821$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<email@example.com.Brown.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Danny Keren writes: >It only proves what kind of people are attracted to "Holocaust revisionism". >Kleim has not only failed to document any of his claims, he has also posted >what may be the ugliest, most hateful racist garbage in this group. Since Keren has no substance to attack my posts with, he must resort to the prime weapon used by a propagandist -- meaningless opinion. May the reader please take note Mr. Keren has yet to provide documentation that Adolf Hitler or another chief German official ordered the extermination of European Jewry, or blueprints of the alleged gas chambers, or official census records demonstrating that indeed six million Jews were/are "missing." >He wrote that Jews are inferior. Citation, please? >He wrote that he would still deeply admire Hitler even if the Nazis would have >killed 60 million Jews. Any action in self-defense is justified. >He suggested that the mentally retarded and insane in the US be killed. I stated that hopelessly insane and severely mentally retarded individuals should be euthanized. >He suggested a "program for improving the Aryan race" which includes >sterilization of those who do not reach a high enough standard. I support a program which will reward parents who produce children that raise the level of my Race, and penalize financially those who consciously produce defective children. >Kleim is such a revolting person that even fellow "revisionist" Bradley Smith, >who feels rather comfortable with Nazis, expressed outrage at his opinions. Citations, please. I would welcome Mr. Smith to post a reply, if this allega- tion is true. If the alleagations are true, they reflect on Mr. Smith more than they do me. ---------------------------------------------------------- "It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." --------------------------------------------------------- Article 16701 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!nic.smsu.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: Contradictory material from the Mythologists' own sources Date: 26 Sep 1994 18:36:56 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3674c8$qau@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <36583k$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU>, Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Jamie McCarthy writes: >Last time Milton "hermann" Kleim posted this, it was as he was leaving >the net. He said he was leaving, then posted this. I said I was leaving for an "indefinite" period, not permanently. I don't intend to be a regular presence on here in the future, either. I left because, as I stated, more important duties required my attention. Assembly of the NS FAQ was one of many. I read as I have time; I post as I have time and as something warrants a response. ---------------------------------------------------------- "It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." ---------------------------------------------------------- Article 8987 of alt.skinheads: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!news.umbc.edu!eff!news.duke.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.skinheads Subject: Re: Be Sure to Tell Them... Date: 27 Sep 1994 02:01:17 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 9 Message-ID: <367udd$sv1@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <firstname.lastname@example.org>,<email@example.com> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu RABBi GOY writes: >Any cool white person would support the likes of Malcom X(early years >before his 'trip') and Louis Farrakahn. These 2 people along with other >great muslim leaders are excellent leaders and role ModLeZ for the black >community/race. Indeed. Article 16708 of alt.revisionism: Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!news.mic.ucla.edu!library.ucla.edu!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!swrinde!sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!uunet!world!bzs From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Barry Shein) Subject: Re: Faurisson vs. Berenbaum In-Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU's message of 27 Sep 1994 22:02:48 GMT Message-ID: Sender: email@example.com (Barry Shein) Organization: The World References: <firstname.lastname@example.org> <email@example.com> <firstname.lastname@example.org>,<email@example.com> <36a4q8$3am@urvile.MSUS.EDU> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 1994 11:04:39 GMT Lines: 29 From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) >>a) Contrary to your dillusion, the USHMM is not a temple. > >Then please tell us the difference between a temple and the "Holocaust" >"museum." You don't have to cover your head to enter the ``""< >""'' <<``""museum""''>>. There, that was easy. >>b) Christian icons are placed on public land with public funds >> all the time. > >We're talking about _facilities_ of religious worship, not nativity scenes, >etc. uh-huh. For someone who can't distinguish a temple from a museum you sure can draw a thin line between shrines and _facilities_ of religious worship. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | firstname.lastname@example.org | uunet!world!bzs Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD Article 16709 of alt.revisionism: Path: oneb!hakatac!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!news.bc.net!vanbc.wimsey.com!scipio.cyberstore.ca!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!newsdist.tc.umn.edu!urvile.msus.edu!TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU!HERMANN From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU (Milton John Kleim, Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.revisionism Subject: Re: The Holocaust Myth Date: 28 Sep 1994 00:12:41 GMT Organization: ST. CLOUD STATE UNIVERSITY, ST. CLOUD, MN Lines: 127 Message-ID: <36acdp$3um@urvile.MSUS.EDU> References: <365821$ku9@urvile.MSUS.EDU> <email@example.com.Brown.EDU> <366vcj$ps2@urvile.MSUS.EDU>,<firstname.lastname@example.org.Brown.EDU> Reply-To: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU NNTP-Posting-Host: tigger.stcloud.msus.edu Danny Keren responds to me: ># Since Keren has no substance to attack my posts with, he must resort to ># the prime weapon used by a propagandist -- meaningless opinion. >Everything posted by Kleim has been refuted - I gave a long answer >to his nutty article yesterday, for instance. Contrary _opinion_ has been offered, but no refutation with substantive evi- dence has been given. ># May the reader please take note Mr. Keren has yet to provide documentation ># that Adolf Hitler or another chief German official ordered the extermination ># of European Jewry, >Both Hitler and Himmler said very explicitly that the Jews will be >exterminated and are being exterminated. Can't Kleim read? The >quotes from their speeches were posted here many times. No, Keren, I want a document on official stationery from ANY high German official that orders that Jews are to be "gassed." Please provide me a citation for such a document. >And there are, of course, numerous documents and testimonies about the >extermination process itself. They are posted here daily. Long posts quoting from sources that have the _style_ of evidence but have no _substance_ as evidence; i.e. lots of words but no facts. ># or blueprints of the alleged gas chambers, >Answered in a previous article (posted today). Not really. Please provide a citation where the documents in question are located. Dr. Faurisson has asked for a design drawing of the alleged "gas chambers" often and has never been provided one. ># or official census records demonstrating that indeed six million Jews were/ >#are "missing." >Conclusions of the Anglo-American committee for studying the Nazi >genocide inflicted on the Jews of Europe, with exact breakdown, >country by country: [irrelevant estimates deleted] This isn't what I asked for. Please provide citations where one may find the census figures from before the war and after the war upon which these _esti- mates_ are based. >Total number of Jews that were exterminated = 5,721,500. >Some estimates are lower, and some are higher, but these are the >magnitudes in question. Like Mr. McCarthy said, why have State lotteries? Let's just have the Mytholo- gists issue their constantly changing _estimates_ of how many Jews were allegedly murdered by the Germans. It's just as random. >## He wrote that Jews are inferior. ># Citation, please? >Here's a quote from a Usenet article by Kleim: ># I have yet to see a Jewish "artist" who has produced a work nearing that ># of the worst Aryan painter, sculptor, writer or musician. This clearly implies the Jewish _culture_ is inferior, but never have I said _Jews_ are inferior. Indeed only a fool would say Jews are inferior in ability to Aryans. In fact, the Jewish average is in some ways higher than the Aryan standard. Jewish superior traits include a greater ability within the realms of intellectualism, which leads to their overabundance in theoretical aspects of science and social science. >## He wrote that he would still deeply admire Hitler even if the Nazis >## would have killed 60 million Jews. ># Any action in self-defense is justified. >Anyone still have doubts about Kleim? What did the Jews did that would >justify killing 60 million of them? What doubts are you talking about? I've never denied my belief in National Socialism. The following quote from H.L. Mencken will serve as my response to the latter part: "The case against the Jews is long and damning; it would justify ten thousand times as many pogroms as now go on in the world." >## He suggested that the mentally retarded and insane in the US be killed. ># I stated that hopelessly insane and severely mentally retarded individuals ># should be euthanized. >No comment. Of course Mr. Keren would like to paint me as some sort of unfeeling monster. It's typical of his camp. I stand by my statement, and add that my position stems not from some type of hatred of severely insane and retarded people, but rather a compassionate feeling to end lives of misery, ones where they are totally helpless to care for themselves, with no hope of raising out of such conditions. Keren apparently believes that any sort of being in human form is "human," despite their lack of those traits that delineate "humanity" from animalhood. I feel otherwise. >## He suggested a "program for improving the Aryan race" which includes >## sterilization of those who do not reach a high enough standard. ># I support a program which will reward parents who produce children that ># raise the level of my Race, and penalize financially those who consciously ># produce defective children. >No, he explicitly suggested sterilization. Perhaps I did (I'd like to see the quote), but I prefer the plan suggested above. Sterilization of defective individuals, including criminals, has been practiced by the United States and several other advanced Nations. It is not isolated to National Socialist Germany.
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